# How hard do you look for deer?



## muzzynat (Apr 20, 2006)

Hi, I'm coming here asking for some advice and recommendations, and knowing there's a good chance I'll get blasted. Let me start out by telling you this years deer story.

I've been scouting both sitting and using trail cams since June, and I found a nice natural funnel due to a gravel pit, with a nice scrape maybe 4'x8', so I put a cam up, and about 6 different bucks were hitting the scrape including a nice mature 9 pointer, who hit the scrape in the middle of the night. In hopes of getting the deer out to the nocturnal phase I put a scent dripper out a week before season, and the deer litterally dug a 4" deep hole under it. About 5 minutes into season the 9 pointer i was after came out, but not along the normal trail, I waited hoping for a better shot, but he put his head down and started running the trail, so I had to shoot through brush at him. I saw him kick his rear legs like a mule, and figured I dropped him. Then I made my mistake, and got out of my ground blind, as I did, he ran south toward the funnel, but I couldn't see his exact path because of my blind being in the way. I went and looked for sign, knowing right where he'd been when I shot, I looked about 40 minutes, then sat back in my blind, then when my dad pulled off post the two of us looked harder, following the funnel through the gravel pit, no hair, no blood, no sign. A week of hard hunting, and passing a lot of small deer later, I come upon my deer in a swamp the opposite direction of where he ran, I had hit him just in front of the hips, coyotes had gotten the hams and the rest of the meat was no good. I was happy to recover my trophy, and my dad and I got meat deer in early season (we hunt around our farm in mn), but I feel like I should have done more to recover this deer. Part of it is most of the deer I've shot in the last few years have dropped on the spot, or left a lot of sign to track.

So my question is how long do you all look, and what methods do you use, and am I beating myself up over nothing?


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

Sounds like it was a questionable shot with undesirable results. Only you know whether you looked hard enough for him or not.


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

Sounds like you took a bad shot at a buck. Like I have said before you owe it to the animal to make a clean kill. Shooting an arrow through brush is not a way to do that. If you don't have a shot, don't force it or this is what will happen.


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## muzzynat (Apr 20, 2006)

I should have said I was using a rifle, not bow and arrow, I'd say the major problem with my shot was I didn't lead him enough as he started chasing into the brush, retrospectively I should have tried to hit him when he was quartered towards me, but I was hoping for a broadside shot. His body was completely exposed, just his legs and head were blocked. Obviously it wasn't the best shot I've taken, but he only made it about 300 yards total, just in a direction we hadn't expected, that combined with a lack of hair or blood led us to believe I'd missed. The truth is, if I hadn't left my blind he probably would have stayed in the brush and died 20 feet from where I shot him, but I got antsy and left the blind too early.

Which brings up a good question, how long do you wait after a shot to go check? I usually try wait 15 minutes, unless I can see the deer, if that's the case I'll go right away.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Well what was it? First you had to shoot through brush, now you had a clear shot at his body?

Sounds like you made a poor decision to shoot and it cost you a deer. And yes, it cost you a deer even though you found it spoiled later on.

Wait for a clear, high percentage shot. Most losses are due to hunter impatience and "trying to make it happen". You don't make the shot happen, you let the shot opportunity develop.

To answer your question though......if there is ANY question as to how good (or bad) the shot was, WAIT. Im a bowhunter, so I have the advantage of having an arrow to investigate for further information.
When in doubt, wait at least an hour. Follow the trail slowly and carefully to seek further evidence of what might of happened. If your finding lots of good, bright blood, you can probably follow immediately after that. If its not looking good, back out for several more hours, or let it sit through the night if conditions allow.


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## muzzynat (Apr 20, 2006)

Criticism of my shot is noted. I'd like to say I took a single shot, the deer died about 300 yards later. That's about as much argument as I'm willing to make.

I'd like to say that my question is how do you normally look for a deer that doesn't leave sign, like hair or blood? how far to you fan out? do you normally track the opposite direction of where the deer ran (this one started SW, but ended up NE)


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## CJofWolfcreek (Aug 12, 2008)

I won't get into taking the shot or not. Thats all up to you. As far as looking for sign or tracking any animal I've shot at, I've been known to spend hours working a spiral from the spot the animal was at when I wounded it. Animals are evasive by nature and will often double back, usualy heading for the nearest line of sight heavy cover.
You hit it 5 minutes into the season, I'd have spent the remainder of the day looking for it. You saw it buck kick, knew you hit it. Your hunt was over at that point and you should have dedicated to recovery mode.


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## muzzynat (Apr 20, 2006)

Thanks for the reply, The spiral pattern is probably a good idea, I might have recovered him with it, this is the first one I didn't recover by pinpointing where I shot at it, then following a trail or tracks. its easy to convince yourself you missed when you don't see hair or any blood, especially if the deer runs good. I will say I definitely feel crappy about it and learned a lesson.

On a side note, I maybe should clarify that the deer i shot in early season were literally shot during the antler-less early season in mn, not after I shot at this buck, and I did tag and register the buck. I know that doesn't make up for loosing the meat, but I've decided that mistakes are part of life and I should use it to learn a lesson.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Running shot, bad... Running shot at deer in cover, very bad...

Purely curious, how often do you practice with the weapon you used that day? Next question, how often do you practice on moving targets with that weapon? I rest my case...

You aren't alone, most deer hunters shoot their rifle a few times just before season. I haven't had a single person I've ever asked state they practice running shots with their rifle. Last time I personally saw this was when a few of us did it as teenagers back in the mid-70s. Shooting at running deer was as dumb then as it is now...

Being as you appear to be young, hopefully you will learn from this. You pass on these type of shots, period. You don't shoot unless you are twice over positive you can place a killing shot. Even at that, Mr. Murphy will throw you a curve now & then...

As for how & how long to look. Start with watching & listening, noting the deer's reaction to the shot and line of flight, as it runs away. Use binocs (hopefully you carry binocs at all times when hunting?) Just like bowhunting, unless you see it go down, wait 20 minutes or longer before approaching the point the deer was at when you shot. The deer may not start bleeding right away, so look for hair & ground disturbance. The color of hair will tell you where the hit/exit are on the deer.

If you don't have a sign trail to follow or if it looks bad, back out and wait at least an hour to follow up.

When you begin follow up, go with the deer's line of flight and mark sign as you find it with TP or marking tape. If you don't have a sign trail to follow, try the closest game trail corresponding with the direction the deer was heading. Move slow & stop often to glass ahead and to either side of the trail or line. If you spot the deer first, stop & wtach it awhile, if it shows signs of life ( head up, ears flicking, ect) shoot it again while you have the chance. If it's laid out, watch it awhile, then move up on it, but be ready to shoot.

If you go too fast and jump a wounded deer, good luck recovering it. Seems once you jump them they can go forever and in their panic don't follow predictable routes.

As for how long to look? Only you can answer that. In my ignorant youth I did pretty much what you did and followed a sparse blood trail for a total of 8 hours over 2 days before I finally finished what I started.

Over the years I've looked for bow hit deer for days & even weeks. I've recovered liver hit deer that took 12 hours or more to recover. A number of years back my wife hit one that made it into a huge frozen slough and stopped bleeding. I walked deer trails in there off & on for a month before I stumbled across that buck, where the coyotes got him. In this case I felt she had made an ultimately fatal hit, which was why I kept at it so long...


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## muzzynat (Apr 20, 2006)

Mods, want to delete this thread? People are obviously more interested in my shot, than how to track deer that aren't bleeding.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

They are not totally interested in your shot.....but it is noted.

They have given you great advise.

I wait 20-30 mins unless I see the deer drop. even then I wait and cautiously approach it.

Now I have shot deer that have not bleed until 50 yards from the point I have shot it. What I did was go right where I took the shoot and started to make circles around that spot looking for sign....ie blood, hair, disturbed ground, broken branches, turned over leaves, turned over leaves on branches, etc.

Like others have noted.....look to the direction the deer went....follow tracks. Then if the tracks go off the trail...follow them. Also follow any deer trail in the area. Look for sign. What I mean is if you are following a good traveled trail and one branches off that trail.....mark it and then follow that one later.

One thing I wish they would teach in hunters ed is tracking.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

An unfortunate turn of events for you. 
What I have determined over the years is this;
If, by conventional methods, most of them mentioned here, you cannot recover your game, get a dog. Most any dog will follow a deer trail. Even microscopic amounts of blood will be picked up by that keen nose. Most states will allow this, provided you keep the dog on a leash, and are not carrying a firearm. In my bowhunting days, my crew used a GSH, and a cocker with great success, to find deer that had bled little, or not at all. The important thing is not to give up until every possible avenue has been completely covered. Props to you for eventually tagging the deer.
Burl


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Burly1 said:


> An unfortunate turn of events for you.
> What I have determined over the years is this;
> If, by conventional methods, most of them mentioned here, you cannot recover your game, get a dog. Most any dog will follow a deer trail. Even microscopic amounts of blood will be picked up by that keen nose. Most states will allow this, provided you keep the dog on a leash, and are not carrying a firearm. In my bowhunting days, my crew used a GSH, and a cocker with great success, to find deer that had bled little, or not at all. The important thing is not to give up until every possible avenue has been completely covered. Props to you for eventually tagging the deer.
> Burl


Works good, but illegal in ND.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

BBJ, or anyone else with the specific knowledge: Would you be good enough to quote, or otherwise give me the ND Century code number that specifically prohibits using a leashed dog to recover a dead deer if you are unarmed and otherwise legally licensed? The proclamation paragraph that states "only horses and mules can be used for the hunting and/or taking of big game" does not apply since you would be neither HUNTING (afield with a weapon) or TAKING (shooting) a big game animal. Thanks for your help.
Burl


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Burly1 said:


> BBJ, or anyone else with the specific knowledge: Would you be good enough to quote, or otherwise give me the ND Century code number that specifically prohibits using a leashed dog to recover a dead deer if you are unarmed and otherwise legally licensed? The proclamation paragraph that states "only horses and mules can be used for the hunting and/or taking of big game" does not apply since you would be neither HUNTING (afield with a weapon) or TAKING (shooting) a big game animal. Thanks for your help.
> Burl


Well, that depends on your interpretation of "taking". It wouldn't be difficult for a warden to interpret "recovering" as "taking".

Theres an obvious gray area (imagine that in a game law) that I for one am not going to test.


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

NDTerminator said:


> Running shot, bad... Running shot at deer in cover, very bad...
> 
> Purely curious, how often do you practice with the weapon you used that day? Next question, how often do you practice on moving targets with that weapon? I rest my case...
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with running shots, as long as you know you can make them. In fact in 17 years of deer hunting I have only had one deer standing still as I shot, the rest were running.


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## CJofWolfcreek (Aug 12, 2008)

Burly1 said:


> BBJ, or anyone else with the specific knowledge: Would you be good enough to quote, or otherwise give me the ND Century code number that specifically prohibits using a leashed dog to recover a dead deer if you are unarmed and otherwise legally licensed? The proclamation paragraph that states "only horses and mules can be used for the hunting and/or taking of big game" does not apply since you would be neither HUNTING (afield with a weapon) or TAKING (shooting) a big game animal. Thanks for your help.
> Burl


You take a deer by afixing the DEER LICENSE to it. If you use your tag, you're hunting, armed or not. If you take possession of a deer without tagging it, you're poaching. You're playing semantics with the wording. Take means to TAKE possession of and the law says only a horse or a mule can be used to hunt or take. So no you can't pack a deer out on your Llama either. If I see a dog trailing deer while leashed I will call the RAP line. If I see a canine loose trailing a deer, it's a coyote.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Burly NDGF would be the folks to pose this question to. Trust me, they don't condone the practice...

Wing, you can tell me you've made 200 consecutive one shot kills on running deer and I'll never change my position on the practice, and I've been deer hunting a darn sight many more years than your 17. For every always-hit-them-in-the-vitals running deer killer like yourself, there are probably hundreds winging shots at running deer that end up the same sad, totally preventable tale that is the crux of this thread...

While we're on the subject, please advise the range setup you have or advise the range you go to that has a running target that accurately mimics a deer running cross country, so the rest can practice the thousands of rounds it would take to become proficient at it, too.

Muzzy, the guys here aren't raking you over the coals, they are trying to answer and give you the benefit of their collective experience. You fell into a common trap, that of the belief you "had" to take the shot because you had to kill "your" deer ( Gawd, I hate it when people say "I got my deer") . The truth is no you didn't, you chose to take it.

Hunting is nothing if not a test of one's decision making, and I hope you learned the lesson that sometimes you just don't take the shot...


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

NDTerminator said:


> Wing, you can tell me you've made 200 consecutive one shot kills on running deer and I'll never change my position on the practice, and I've been deer hunting a darn sight many more years than your 17. For every always-hit-them-in-the-vitals running deer killer like yourself, there are probably hundreds winging shots at running deer that end up the same sad, totally preventable tale that is the crux of this thread...
> 
> While we're on the subject, please advise the range setup you have or advise the range you go to that has a running target that accurately mimics a deer running cross country, so the rest can practice the thousands of rounds it would take to become proficient at it, too.


Well NDT I will completely disagree with you. For those who are comfortable with the shot and have been successful there should be no problem. Remember it's not illegal either. In many other countries it's considered unethical to shoot a standing deer. So I guess that is a personal opinion and keep it at that. I have no problem shooting at a running deer at close range (under 100 yards). I know I can make the shot. Had that very shot this year. Doe at 105 yards at a run. One single shot with the Marlin 45-70 and the doe dropped right there. And please don't use the "I've been hunting longer than you" argument.

Jack rabbits make great targets for this.


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## JIMINYCHRISTMAS (Aug 5, 2009)

It is likely that with a gunshot wound, there was a minimum of hair. Impossible for there not to be, atleast at the point of impact. The fact is you didn't find it hair nor blood. With that said, everyone loses deer at some point during their hunting career if they shoot any amount of animals. Are you certain it was the deer you shot running away when you got out of your blind? Another deer? Two take aways from this scenerio: if you find nothing, no hair, no blood, no tracks, nothing. Find exactly where the deer was when you shot, they leave sign, they have to. Next make not of the heavy cover in your area, deer that are not vitally wounded, i.e. (heart, lungs, major arterial wound, "dead on their feet") will instinctivly head for the heavy bedding type cover (swamp). Next make note of the wind direction.In my experience, wounded deer, upon catching their bearings, will nearly always get the wind in there favor, provided there is some sort of cover that way.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Not to get too adversarial, and I know you and Wing are good guys, but I'll go one more post as I feel strongly about shooting at running deer...

Doesn't matter if it's legal, I'm pointing out it's not very bright. A basic ballistics program shows how difficult this act is even if the target is crossing at a 90% angle at a known speed in a zero value wind.

Long, you and Wing may well be a couple of the very few who have this down and place that single shot in the vitals 100% of the time. Then that makes two of you that have mastered & memorized all the variables & angles to arrive at specific lead distances involved in hitting a 6" to 8" circle moving at probably 25 MPH (but which changes speed, angles, and height in the blink of an eye) with a single projectile off hand 100% of the time anywhere out to a couple hundred yards.....

Yep, jacks are great moving targets, and only a little smaller than the vitals on a running deer. Do you hit running jacks 100% of the time, or do you sometimes get it wrong and hit behind them. A clean miss or say...about where a deer's guts or hips would be?

Let's be honest, the vast majority shooting at running deer take a SWAG and letting it fly. If the round hits it somewhere, anywhere on it's body, great. If a miss the shooter generally keeps shooting at an ever more difficult target, generally only stopping when they run the magazine dry. I see & hear this god alone knows how many times each season.

In my ignorant youth I hunted with enough of these guys to know how it works. It's been many years since I decided I won't be part of any pushing or group hunting as this is where most of this takes place. Amazingly, I haven't had a need to shoot at a moving deer let alone one who had a clue I was around, since I made this decision...

I mentioned the general years I have hunted deer only as Wing brought his up apparently to support his position.

And none of this changes the facts that the original poster made a bad hit on a moving deer. He could have just passed on the shot and none of the aftermath would have happened...


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

I think the biggest thing is knowing your rifle and round. When you look at the time it takes a bullet in most high power deer rifles you will usually find that for the bullet to reach 100 yards the time is about 0.10 sec. In most cases for me when I have missed a running target is has been too far in front of it. That is usually my biggest problem with jacks. They seem to be going faster because of their smaller size. A few years ago Field and Stream had a good article on how to lead a deer at under 100 yards. It had a good write-up and diagrams showing lead placement. I sure wish I could find that again.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

> You're playing semantics with the wording.


As are you CJ.



> If I see a canine loose trailing a deer, it's a coyote.


How would you know, unless you saw a deer running from the dog? Leashed or not. Guys like you are why I won't take my valuable dogs pheasant hunting during the general deer season. Even the best dogs sometimes put a rise of ground between themselves and their handlers.......deer run when startled, whether they are being 'trailed', or not......and then there YOU are....enforcing your own convoluted idea of the "law of the land". This kind of vigilante behavior sickens me. If you can't answer the question without letting your testosterone override your brain function, best to just crawl back under your rock....................



> If you take possession of a deer without tagging it, you're poaching.


Re-read my post and you will see that I never implied that any deer should be recovered without a licence. You have no idea when or where I may, or may not have used leashed dogs to recover deer, so best use caution when making such a thinly veiled accusation.

I am done with this one, and added good ol' CJ to the ignore list. Also, I would like to apologize to the original poster for contributing to the hijack of this thread.
Burl


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

You guys can whiz way better than the those on the political thread :lol:

To add a little fuel .......... Most need to shot regulary alot. I used to shot at least 2 to 3 hundred rounds (some years more) out of my 270. It was the my main Jack Rabbit gun. :sniper:

Who said it? "A man's got to know his limitations"

From just interacting on this web site I don't think we know what each other are capable of :eyeroll:


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

zogman said:


> You guys can whiz way better than the those on the political thread :lol:


That cracked me up zogman! :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> How would you know, unless you saw a deer running from the dog? Leashed or not. Guys like you are why I won't take my valuable dogs pheasant hunting during the general deer season.


Good point Burly. I don't own a dog, but as I grew up my dog was my best friend. If someone shot my dog during deer season he would get hauled before a judge with a civil suit so fast it would make his head swim. I would take him for every penny I could. Not to get rich, but to punish the fool. 
This thread reminds me of how many posters it takes to change a light bulb. Something like one to tell you how, and 30 to tell you about the dangers of changing a light bulb. 
This is a prime example of people jumping to conclusions about others they have never met and know nothing about.

muzzynat it's clear your heart is in the right place. It always hurts to loose an animal. You don't want to fail, and you don't want the animal to suffer. None of us started out perfect, and I doubt were all perfect now. We keep trying though, and that is all we can do.
I have used toilet tissue to mark and follow all trails the deer may have taken. I have been lucky only loosing I think three deer with a bow, and two with a rifle over the past 48 years. It happens. It's usually our fault, but not always. One year I purchased some new broadheads. I didn't shoot them on a windy day to check them and I should have. Two of the three deer I have lost were with that broadhead. They drifted three feet at 20 yards. The absolute worst I have ever seen. One hit only sliced skin, but another hit to far back and I didn't recover him for 24 hours in warm weather. Then back in 1958 broadheads were not made as good as today. There was no way you could make a factory broadhead shave. At least not the ones I had access to. Sure the old Bear Razorhead may cut a hair or two, but I could not get them to shave a bare spot on skin, and when your ten there isn't much hair to shave.

Today if I wound a deer I will start with the old toilet tissue, and end with circular paths determined by my GPS unit. Luckily I have not had to look for a deer for some years now.

NDTerminator. I'm not going to pick on you, but I can't pass up some fun. Next time we meet remind me and I will show you how to shoot charcoal out of the air with a 22 rifle. We need some wide open spaces or large hills to shoot against to make that game safe though. You might want to ask coyote sniper in Devils Lake if I can do that.


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

NDTerminator said:


> Not to get too adversarial, and I know you and Wing are good guys, but I'll go one more post as I feel strongly about shooting at running deer...
> 
> Doesn't matter if it's legal, I'm pointing out it's not very bright. A basic ballistics program shows how difficult this act is even if the target is crossing at a 90% angle at a known speed in a zero value wind.
> 
> ...


You were asking at which range I practiced. I would say from Wahpeton to the Missouri river would be my range. Chasing a lot of coyotes and fox when they were still around(fox). Shooting a ton of jackrabbits, and of course shooting a ton of rounds at the range and out in the open in the hills where I can shoot out to farther distances and see what the wind does to my bullets. Also I grew up driving deer. We hunted deer like we hunted pheasants. That's how I hunted them most of my life. So to get a deer I had to adapt and become a good running shot. Now every deer I have shot was not hell bent for leather either. Some were on a trot others looked more like a greyhound chasing the rabbit ears back and heading for the hills. I think if you practice enough, and you know your ballistics, a running shot is just a valid as a standing shot. Just my .02.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

to you heros justifying shooting at running deer, heres a bet.  lets go out on a 15mph wind day. i'll blow uo some red balloons and let them go at 100 yard so they will blow across a open field broadside to you. you get 10 shots. if you can hit 5out of 10 you get 25$$ if not i do. :thumb: any takers.  your mostly full of crap. your all hoping for a lethal chest shot but odds are your gonna hit a bad spot and break the animal down and have to finish it with another. now before you attack me as a eleatist{sp} your wrong. i will shoot at a coyote at any distance at any speed at any angle and also grew up shooting driven deer with 12 guage slug and have shot WAY more than my share of "up-the-bung" deer. but have also seen lots get away. now i'm just like NDT. unaware -standing only. they taste better to  good post muzzynat, also feel bad for the hi-jack.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Ah yes bearhunter, you know everyone and their abilities. The all knowing bearhunter! :rollin: 
Nobody hits anything 100% of the time. We all miss and even a standing deer can be missed. If you don't want to take the shot bearhunter that is your choice. Maybe it's because you're not comfortable to make the shot. But when I am I will take the shot and that is my choice and have been very successful with it. It makes no difference if you believe it or not. I'm sure you are one of those who also don't believe in long range shooting either. Once again bearhunter, in many countries it is considered unethical to shoot at standing deer and to only shoot running deer. Some (not me) believe shooting deer standing is too easy and doesn't give the deer a chance.

Another good practice is the rolling tire with cardboard target in the center. A good side hill with a good hill in the background makes a fun shoot.


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

Ok scenario, you are walking out to do some still hunting during rifle season. On the way out to the spot you kick up a monster booner, but BEARHUNTER he is running broadside at 200 yrds. You the good man you are let it go, mean while down the road there I am walking out to my spot. Here comes a booner running broadside at 200 yrds, BOOOOOM. Gut, meat locker, taxidermist. Thanks!!


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

Wing and Long, :eyeroll: sure anybody can feel comfortable with taking a long running shot but only if you don't really care what the outcome is. i can pretty much guaratee you really dont care if you hit and lose a deer(unless its a big buck). no takers on the bet


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## mikemcc (Jul 30, 2004)

I don't second-guess anyone's shooting abilities. I've seen some pretty amazing shooters over the years, including one guy who could hit a shotgun shell thrown into the air (thrown hard, not tossed) with a .22 8 times out of 10. Does that mean he can hit a running deer at 100 yards? I don't know. But I think he probably knows his own abilities and limitations with a rifle so if he thinks he can do it, I'd be willing to accept that.

I was lucky enough to fill both of my tags this year, a doe grazing around in grass at 70 yards and a decent 4X4 bedded down at 425 yards. I have for years routinely practiced out to 500 yards and am comfortable on real deer instead of paper targets if the conditions are right. The buck was on the Thursday before the season ended and where I was in S.E. ND, there wasn't a breath of wind so I was comfortable. That buck just fell over dead on the spot -- so hard that it pretty much buried his far side antler in the soft ground. I wouldn't have taken the shot if conditions weren't perfect and if I wouldn't have found a tree with a low branch that was perfect to use as a benchrest. The doe went down just as fast -- by the time the recoil was over, the field was empty because she didn't take a step. But I wouldn't have taken that shot even at 70 yards if I felt there was something not right. Both deer were spot and stalks -- I glassed the buck at 700 yards while walking to my normal hiding spot and was able to get several hundred yards closer. He knew I was there because he was watching me. I got right to that point at which he was ready to get up and bolt and then took the shot.

I have the same attitude about running shots -- I take only those shots that I know I can make. I do not feel comfortable shooting at running deer at 100 yards so I don't do it. But I have shot running deer that were at 10 to 40 yards with no problems. Again, these were when I considered conditions to be perfect -- the deer were in the open, I KNEW there was nothing behind them except a hill or other suitable backstop, and they weren't bounding up and down. On either a trot or a flat run, though, at those ranges, and other conditions being good, I have not missed and I have not lost a deer. Nor have I ever gut shot a deer or hit one in the hindquarters. I have only been a rifle hunter for about 10 years, though -- prior to that, I could only use slug shotguns in Iowa. When using a slug gun, I would not have tried a running shot at 40 yards, though I would have been comfortable out to 25 yards or so. I know my limitations, but those are MY limitations. I respect others who are legitimate hunters and have more experience shooting moving targets than I do. I do not respect those who bail out of a car and shoot at a running deer that is 300 yards away. I have seen that happen over and over again. The year before last some road hunters let loose on a little button buck that was a good 300 yards away from them. Five minutes later he came running right in front of me in my hiding spot next to a tree, about 15 yards away. He was running fast, but one of his back feet had been blown off just above the hoof. I did not want a button buck but shot him on the run anyway because I could not bear to think of him running off with that missing foot. In the meantime, the guys had just gotten back into their car and driven away.


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## CJofWolfcreek (Aug 12, 2008)

ND Century code 20.1-05-04. Using certain animals and artificial lights in taking big game unlawful.
No person, to hunt, pursue, kill, take, or attempt to take, or to aid in the hunting or taking of, any
big game animal, may:
1. Use any animal except horses or mules.

In short, in ND if you use a dog in any way shape or form to tag a deer, you've broken the law. If we want to be able to use dogs in recovery of wounded deer, we need to lobby our representitives and have an exception made to the code. It can be done, bowhunters were finally given the right to possess a sidearm by this process.

Also, to clarify my previous statement, I have never seen a domesticated dog running down deer in ND. I know what a bird dog looks like and as a hunting courtesy I give other hunters a very wide berth and will leave the area. The only canines I've ever seen stalking or running down deer have been actual coyotes. If it turns out to be a dog I'll let the game wardens handle that as well since they do have the authority to shoot dogs harassing deer.

Nope, not a vigilante, but I also have no problem with turning in hunters who break the laws. I've found poached and abandoned bucks with their throats slashed and then had been dragged into a tree row, had a unmarked plane buzz a field only to hear a shot ring out to the east of me as it drove the deer towards their partners on the ground, come across a buck with its rack cut off and just the back straps taken... yeah I've called the RAP line and will continue to do so.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

bearhunter said:


> to you heros justifying shooting at running deer, heres a bet.  lets go out on a 15mph wind day. i'll blow uo some red balloons and let them go at 100 yard so they will blow across a open field broadside to you. you get 10 shots. if you can hit 5out of 10 you get 25$$ if not i do. :thumb: any takers.  your mostly full of crap. your all hoping for a lethal chest shot but odds are your gonna hit a bad spot and break the animal down and have to finish it with another. now before you attack me as a eleatist{sp} your wrong. i will shoot at a coyote at any distance at any speed at any angle and also grew up shooting driven deer with 12 guage slug and have shot WAY more than my share of "up-the-bung" deer. but have also seen lots get away. now i'm just like NDT. unaware -standing only. they taste better to  good post muzzynat, also feel bad for the hi-jack.


Ill take that bet!

But I get to buy the balloons.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

CJofWolfcreek said:


> Also, to clarify my previous statement, I have never seen a domesticated dog running down deer in ND.


I have, several times unfortunately.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

barebackjack said:


> bearhunter .[/quote:3cza766x said:
> 
> 
> > Ill take that bet!
> ...


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

barebackjack said:


> bearhunter said:
> 
> 
> > to you heros justifying shooting at running deer, heres a bet.  lets go out on a 15mph wind day. i'll blow uo some red balloons and let them go at 100 yard so they will blow across a open field broadside to you. you get 10 shots. if you can hit 5out of 10 you get 25$$ if not i do. :thumb: any takers.  your mostly full of crap. your all hoping for a lethal chest shot but odds are your gonna hit a bad spot and break the animal down and have to finish it with another. now before you attack me as a eleatist{sp} your wrong. i will shoot at a coyote at any distance at any speed at any angle and also grew up shooting driven deer with 12 guage slug and have shot WAY more than my share of "up-the-bung" deer. but have also seen lots get away. now i'm just like NDT. unaware -standing only. they taste better to  good post muzzynat, also feel bad for the hi-jack.
> ...


I am with you. Get the balloons buddy!!!


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