# what else would you expect from a muslim from Kenya?



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

there are a ton of voters who will make payback in 2010 and 2012!

Obama backs mosque near ground zero
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EmailPrint.. AP - ** RETRANSMISSION TO CORRECT DATE OF ATTACK ** President Barack Obama hosts an iftar dinner, the meal &#8230; 
. Play Video Barack Obama Video:Obama as 'Vacationer-in-Chief' FOX News .
Play Video Barack Obama Video:Obama to Sign Border Security Bill FOX News .
Play Video Barack Obama Video:Senate passes border bill Reuters .
By ERICA WERNER, Associated Press Writer Erica Werner, Associated Press Writer - 27 mins ago
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama on Friday forcefully endorsed allowing a mosque near ground zero, saying the country's founding principles demanded no less.

"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country," Obama said, weighing in for the first time on a controversy that has riven New York City and the nation.

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

as a politician, he needed to avoid this topic.

Legally, the guy is right though.

Morally, it's a thumb up the nose by muslims.


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

Just saw a poll on this and over 90% voted against his stand and the mosque. There where over 130000 votes. Legally he is correct but ethically and morally he is 100% wrong. This may be the last nail in his political coffin! But who knows, he may come up with a better way to screw the U.S. and himself! :eyeroll:


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

*Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.*

Like him or not, Obama is 100 percent correct on this one. Liberties are guaranteed for every person, regardless of whether or not the public takes a vote. In other words, the public can't vote to eliminate your protections under the Bill of Rights. Muslims have every right to build a mosque on that site, as would a Baptist, Lutheran, or Catholic group to build a church. We may not like it, but that is the tough part of living in a non-theocracy.

The man took an oath to defend the Constitution against all threats, both foreign and domestic. That is what he is doing since any attempts to block the mosque on religious grounds is an attack on the Constitution. Frankly, if Obama would have come out against the mosque, many of you would have criticized him for not upholding his oath. He can't win either way since there are a large number of people in this country that wake up each day ready to surf the net or check their email for new things to criticize their president on. That is sad.

We are either serious about defending the Constitution or we aren't. When you are ready to defend the liberties of all citizens, even those that express views or take stances that make you want to puke, *then* you can call yourself a patriot.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

BigDaddy, I can't speak for North Dakota or New York, but I would bet money the systems there are very similar to the ones I am more familiar with, and those have a building code system that includes, among many other things, a mandate for a permit to build any new structure. And intended use of that structure will often times superceed any perceived constitutional rights of the one(s) asking for the permit. Suffice it to say city government needs very little "official" reason to deny a permit, so inferring the city has no legal grounds, knowing what we do about the overwhelming public sentiment against the mosgue (not to mention the spin about public safety that could be put on the issue if the city so desired) is a bit of a cop out. One of the reasons for a permit system is so the city can look out for the CITY'S best interests, and it wouldn't take us long here to find many examples of a city apparently ignoring a right or two in the name of the public interest. :wink:

Simply put, constitutional guarantees concerning freedom of religion in no way includes the right to build your place of worship anywhere you want.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> Simply put, constitutional guarantees concerning freedom of religion in no way includes the right to build your place of worship anywhere you want.


This is true. Local entities, such as city councils, township boards, and county commissions can limit where certain businesses and organizations can build stuctures or operate, citing things like public safety, traffic flow, and compliance with local ordinances. However, this thread is about President Obama, and the feelings by some that his statement was out of line in which he stated that the mosque has every right to operate where they wish.

The executive branch enforces laws, including the Constitution, and the President is charge of the executive branch. Therefore, President Obama was absolutely justified in his position.

Maybe the entities that people should be angry or disappointed with are those in city government in New York City.


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

BigDaddy said:


> Frankly, if Obama would have come out against the mosque, many of you would have criticized him for not upholding his oath. He can't win either way since there are a large number of people in this country that wake up each day ready to surf the net or check their email for new things to criticize their president on. That is sad.


If he had done this it would have been the first time he came out for anything resembling doing his job that he is sworn to uphold! Apparently you have no idea what this prez's agenda has been so far. :eyeroll: I have voted a split ticket more than once but because of what this supposed prez had to say before elections I just couldn't do it. I didn't like McCain but he would have been head and shoulder's above what we ended up with!

If you have 60% of the people opposing obamiecare, 75% of the people in the U.S. backing Arizona and you ignore them and you have 90% of the people opposed to the mosque then that person doesn't have a clue what the real world is all about! Vote the majority of the encumbents out in November and maybe we will get some relief.

The only problem I have is something that my Grandad said years ago: Take a good man and elect him to a political office and in a years time you have a new political crook! Some of them have perfected their deceit over way to many years. Term limits are a must and they need to abide by all the laws that they have passed and will pass. :bop:


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

BigDaddy said:


> *
> 
> The man took an oath to defend the Constitution against all threats, both foreign and domestic. quote]
> yes he did !!! doing a damn fine job of it to huh big daddy. if this goes through i hope someone builds a pork slaughter house and a strip joint next door so them s.o.b's can go meet Allah*


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> Maybe the entities that people should be angry or disappointed with are those in city government in New York City


Now you're getting to the meat of the matter, BigDaddy. I doubt states' rights is high on your list of things that are important to you, but what you said above is spot-on. Since the people of New York were the ones who lived through what the muslims did, (not to infer it didn't affect the entire country) let's let those same people decide if they want a permanent reminder of it right there.



> The executive branch enforces laws, including the Constitution, and the President is charge of the executive branch. Therefore, President Obama was absolutely justified in his position


.

You're partly correct, but the tenth amendment is part of that document he's supposed to be following, and I don't believe that even you truly believe it's possible that anyone involved in the constitution's content could have possibly considered refusal to grant permission to build a place of worship in a particular place in any way hindered their ability to practice the religion of their choice. We're talking about the same constitution that grants local municipalities the legal ability (affirmed by the 2005 eminent domain ruling) to force property owners to sell out for private investments that better serve the public's interests.

Sound familiar?

That brings us to the real reason many are miffed about the pres' involvement. In the whole scheme of things, does our current situation globally and economically even hint to the possibility of him having enough time to give a rats you know what about where New York allows a mosgue to be built...much less use his public influence to lobby one way or the other?

Or how about this? Maxine Waters is in the news lately. Do you think she would (or should) use her status and access to the media to press her city of LA to grant a building permit for the KKK to build a new headquarters in Watts, or do you think no debate would be necessary since the permit would most likely be granted without delay? :wink:


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

This was obamie'e way of deflecting! By not saying that putting the mosque in that particular spot is wrong. And I am still not sure he is a citizen, I think he threw that in because of his arrogance. uke:



> "As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country," Obama said, weighing in for the first time on a controversy that has riven New York City and the nation.
> 
> "That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> there are a large number of people in this country that wake up each day ready to surf the net or check their email for new things to criticize their president on. That is sad.


POT, KETTLE, BLACK????



> Like him or not, Obama is 100 percent correct on this one.


I will go along with those who said he is correct legally, but not morally. He was stupid to get involved. He could have kept is mouth shut, but he didn't have the brains to do it. Also, he didn't need to do it with such gusto that it appears he is bias. Of course most Americans now believe he is Muslim, and those who doubt he is a citizen are now over 50% in the polls. He may have been legally correct, but he chose a path that will make America hate his guts, and turn on liberals also. Does it make you sick to your stomach to defend him?



> The man took an oath to defend the Constitution against all threats, both foreign and domestic. That is what he is doing


Odd isn't it? Most of the time he is ignoring it, or stepping on it, or misinterpreting to fit his agenda. I wish he would respect the second amendment.

BigDaddy, there is going to be a backlash against Muslims if they build this Mosque, legal or not. There is growing anger in the nations because at a time when society is tearing down the Ten Commandments from public places and prohibiting prayer in school they are bending over backwards to accommodate Islam.
When I debated our old buddy Militant Tiger about removal of the Ten Commandments and prayer in public schools you agreed with him. Here is news from his home town. What do you think of this:


> DEARBORN, Mich. -- A Michigan high school football team is holding preseason practices in the middle of the night to help its Muslim players practice both faith and football.
> 
> The predominantly Muslim squad from Dearborn says the nocturnal regimen is a way for players to eat and drink while observing the holy month of daytime fasting known as Ramadan that started last week.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> POT, KETTLE, BLACK????


There isn't even a close comparision between the daily attacks on the current administration compared to questions and concerns with the Bush Administration. Plainsman, hunter9494, and others are wearing out their computer mouses doing all of the copying and pasting of inflammatory articles on this board from conservative websites and emails. During the Bush years, many of us posted on this board, but for those most part, those postings were our own ideas and criticisms, not the cut and paste tactics employed by you and others now. Not even a close comparison.



> Does it make you sick to your stomach to defend him?


Nope, because he is absolutely correct on this issue. He is taking a leadership stance, something that a president is supposed to do.



> I wish he would respect the second amendment.


I wish you and others would respect the first, fourth, fifth, and sixth amendments as much as you respect the second. If you did, you'd have much more credibility.



> What do you think of this: DEARBORN, Mich. -- A Michigan high school football team is holding preseason practices in the middle of the night to help its Muslim players practice both faith and football.
> 
> The predominantly Muslim squad from Dearborn says the nocturnal regimen is a way for players to eat and drink while observing the holy month of daytime fasting known as Ramadan that started last week.


Say there was a football team that had a significant number of Christian players in a borough of New York City with a predominantly Jewish population. Let's also say that the coach or school officials decided to discontinue with late practices on a Wednesday night or Sunday games to accommodate those Christian players. Would you be similarly outraged? This is about a local school that has changed its local practices to accommodate its predominant team members who happen to be Muslim. Where in the article does it say that the school was forced to do so?

You're losing it. Seriously, you sound like those liberals that you constantly criticize that are looking for excuses to be insulted and outraged.

I stand by my statement in my earlier posting. I think that you and others spend a fair amount of the day looking for things to get outraged about. If you want to do that, go ahead. However, I'd rather that people spend more time talking about solutions to problems. That is something that you and other conservatives fail at miserably. You are good a identifying problems (and sometimes non-problems), but I don't hear many solutions coming from the Party of No.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is the thing....... This is one issue (like others) that Obama should not have gotten into one bit.

Such as the "beer summit". He should have just kept his mouth shut and let it unfold as it my.

The people have every right in the world to build the mosque where ever it is permitted. So if this land was bought and it is perfectly fine to build any establishment regarding any religion then that is the way it is. But for a president to come out and publicly say " I support or back this" is wrong on so many levels. It is pitting one religion against another. It is political suicide!

This just goes to show you how one sided the media is on this issue. If Bush would have said, "I back the mosque" the papers would have been all over him for siding with one religion over another type thing. The double standard by the media is becoming more and more obvious.


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

Some have been saying that the property for the new mosque is not on ground zero. I just found out today that it is 2 blocks from the towers and a landing gear and part of the fuselage went through the roof. It did enough damage that the building was considered to dangerous to use anymore. Sounds like it might be part of ground zero after all! :eyeroll:

I can't wait till election time to help do what needs to be done! :beer:


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

some cut and paste items are very mainstream, NY Times, Washington Post and other liberal blogs, that are finally feeling as nervous as a whore in church........for many, those who couldn't wait to vote the muslim king into office, can't wait to vote him out! i don't have buyers remorse, for those that do, i feel sorry for you.....for those that don't it will have to get worse before you do....you won't have long to wait...70% do not believe the mosque should be built at ground zero, 50% now believe Obama was not born in this country and holds his position illegally........the numbers don't lie, but the President does...daily!


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> 50% now believe Obama was not born in this country and holds his position illegally........the numbers don't lie, but the President does...daily!


And I know that we can depend on you and other conservatives to correct those mistruths as they clog up your in-box and the right-wing blogs. After all, conservatives would never spread or perpetuate mistruths, right? In fact, let me think of all those times that folks on this board were brought to task for spreading false rumors.... Oh,wait....


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

any elected official who has hired lawyers and spent millions hiding his past proof of educational achievements, essays and citizenship..........well, what the hell, you're right, it just must be my active imagination to think anything might be amiss here..
of course, many thought charlie rangle and maxine waters were above reproach as well.......well, not everyone..lol


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

As others have stated, he may be legally correct, but this is an issue that he just should not be involved in one way or another.

And if this guy is serious I think I may have to invest some money:



> Gay bar may open next to Ground Zero mosque
> August 12th, 2010 12:49 pm
> Conservative Fox News host Greg Gutfeld has recently announced that he is planning on opening a gay bar two blocks from Ground Zero in New York City. That would put it right next door to the planned Cordoba Mosque.
> 
> ...


Link: http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-phil ... ero-mosque

I think that the plan to put this mosque there is an insensitive gesture on the part of the muslim community, but then they really don't care that anyone would be offended.

So, in that spirit, I think someone should also put a BBQ pit restaurant specializing in BBQ'd pork next door as well.

huntin1


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

And here's a muslim look at this issue:



> Mischief in Manhattan
> We Muslims know the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation
> 
> By Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah, Citizen Special
> ...


Link: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Misch ... z0w9vI8Gqq

huntin1


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I wish you and others would respect the first, fourth, fifth, and sixth amendments as much as you respect the second. If you did, you'd have much more credibility.


What is it that makes you think we don't respect it. We conservatives respect all of the constitution, but we concentrate on those that are being attacked by liberals.



> many of us posted on this board, but for those most part, those postings were our own ideas and criticisms, not the cut and paste tactics employed by you and others now. Not even a close comparison.


Hey, I still do both. Sometimes I find articles where the guy thinks just like I do. When that happens why waste time saying the same thing again. I would rather cut and past than pretend it's all my idea when I find a good article. Often I don't have time to write what I think. It takes time if you really are thinking.



> Say there was a football team that had a significant number of Christian players in a borough of New York City with a predominantly Jewish population.


You totally missed my point. I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the left that gets so worried about Christian anything in any public place, but nearly break a neck trying to get the right angle on the Muslim butt kiss maneuver. I'm not the one that thinks separation of church and state is in the constitution. I would not care in the least if liberals like you didn't loose their mind over something Christian in a public place, then think Muslim is just great.

Like I said they legally can build there, but I find it hypocritical. First off a Greek Orthodox church that was damaged there was not allowed to rebuild because of political correctness.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> First off a Greek Orthodox church that was damaged there was not allowed to rebuild because of political correctness.


I wasn't aware of that. Really gotta ask how their can even be a debate about right or wrong now. You better call on all your resources to defend your guy on this one, BigDaddy. Saying this stinks would be a gross understatement.



> Reconstruction of the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church near ground zero in Manhattan remains stalled nearly nine years after it was destroyed by the falling south towers. It was the only house of worship destroyed on 9/11/01.
> 
> The church's leader wants answers from the Port Authority of NY & NJ in light of the controversial plan to build a mosque near the World Trade Center site.
> 
> ...


http://www.greekboston.com/wordpress/20 ... ound-zero/

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysi ... osque.aspx

http://iowntheworld.com/blog/?p=31017

Found what follows in a blog entry and just had to share:


> Once I hit the lottery, I'm going to Hiroshima where I am sure nobody there will have any problems with me building "The Atomic Cafe" restaurant where on the inside of the cafe, I will suspend from the ceiling a good sized scale model of the "Enola Gay" in flight.
> 
> If anybody is offended by that, then its obvious they are bigoted American haters


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Legally right or wrong, it makes no difference, he simply should have just kept out of it. Even his own party is ****** off he even weighed in on the issue because they are all going to take a severe beating over it, and for what, they could have just let the local officials take the beating on it and have stayed out.

Myself and most normal people don't need something written down in a law book to be able to tell straight up right from wrong, and this is flat out wrong for many reasons, even if legally it is correct.

How would a ATF shrine go over 2 blocks from the WACO debacle site, or as mentioned a "Atomic Cafe" go over in Hiroshima, or better yet, once they build the "Muslim Center" an "ALL PORK ALL THE TIME CAFE" right next door.

And if the story of the Orthodox Church not being able to be rebuilt is true in the least, them shame on them all.

I don't know exactly where the line between political correctness and just plain stupid is, but Obama sure jumped like Carl Lewis over that line head first on this one.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Liberals whine that we are always picking on Obama, and don't understand why. There are a number of reasons, but number one is to point out their huge mistake at the voting booth last election in the hopes they are somewhat smarter this time.

I like personal opinions, but I like news also. Opinions I spend some time on, but when I find something good I copy and paste. Some are just to good not to let others know. If there is one person dumb enough to vote for Obama in 2012 then our job is not done.

I at one time thought Obama was smart and treacherous. I am happy to have changed my mind. The man is treacherous, but stupid which makes him a little less dangerous. Less dangerous because he isn't smart enough to support those who support him, and I doubt smart enough to be around a second term.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> I at one time thought Obama was smart and treacherous. I am happy to have changed my mind. The man is treacherous, but stupid which makes him a little less dangerous. Less dangerous because he isn't smart enough to support those who support him, and* I doubt smart enough to be around a second term*.


Lets hope what I highlighted is correct. I know of many who voted for him will not next term. Many think this whole Mosque deal sealed his fate! Again this is an issue he should have just kept his mouth shut on. Like others issues he stuck his nose in when he should not have....beer summit is number one!

It was funny talked with my mom the other day about some of this. She voted for Obama and last year at thanksgiving there was a heated debate on Obama. Many of the issues I brought up about his policy are now coming true. I wish I was not correct! But it is and like another thread I started....we are heading backwards into what got us in this finacial mess. The $1000 loans and also with the interest rate dropping like Obama's approval rating ( oke: ) this should be another red flag!!! It is a way to artificially stimulate the economy again! People will start over spending and going deeper in debt! I hate to high jack a thread....but this is a big, big issue that nobody seems to be talking about.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Guys, the obvious common denominator here is the belief that the fed govt has the legal right to force New York to allow the Mosque to be built at the location in question, but I'm not so sure they would have a legal leg to stand on. If we were talking about New York refusing to allow them to build _anywhere_ I would totally agree, but that's not even remotely the case here.

The 10th amendment packs a tremendous amount of power in just a few words, and simply reads....."The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people."

It limits the federal government's power over the states to only that which is expressly detailed by the Constitution. To me, that means the feds could only flex their muscles if New York would not let Muslims openly practice _anywhere_, and gives them absolutely no say on what New York has to allow at or near ground zero.


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## floortrader (Feb 5, 2009)

I don't post here anymore on a regular basis. I was told I was too hard on people like big daddy,and I would soon be made to leave. It now seems more of you are begining to get fed up and are now getting as blunt as I was. I think the cat is now further out of the bag and I don't think you folks will be told you will soon be banned. Good luck and keep fighting the good fight.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

floortrader said:


> I don't post here anymore on a regular basis. I was told I was too hard on people like big daddy,and I would soon be made to leave. It now seems more of you are begining to get fed up and are now getting as blunt as I was. I think the cat is now further out of the bag and I don't think you folks will be told you will soon be banned. Good luck and keep fighting the good fight.


floortrader, glad to see you back :beer: i know its hard sometimes to sqwelch how you feel. its hard for me to. although its ok to question someone and even have a "little" pissing match,personal attacks are not well taken. BOY, was it hard for me to keep my pie hole shut when Ryan was here. come back but keep it civil :thumb:


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Got this in an email this morning. Take it for what it's worth.....entertainment, but it does go along with Plainsman's sentiments above....



> Building Permit
> 
> I recently applied for a building permit for a new house.
> 
> ...


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