# getting new pdog gun



## rs94 (Mar 12, 2009)

i am looking for a caliber that is good for pdogs and is fairly inexpensive to shoot i have a 204 and 22 long and short.


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## Mandanhouse (Mar 31, 2009)

Well, I'd suggest a HMR.17

You have the 22 which will take to to 100 yards or maybe 125. The .17 with a tactical scope will take you to 250/275.

Then you have your .204


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

I'd say something like a 243 or 25-06, then you can go from p dogs, to coyotes, to deer. Then you could have a great all around gun.


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## rs94 (Mar 12, 2009)

i decided on 223 with a remington 700 vtr


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## skruske (Feb 25, 2005)

.223 is a wise choice. It is probably the most economical center fire to use. It is good for PD's out to 600yds pretty easy. On a good day you can lob them out to 800yds.


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

skruske said:


> .223 is a wise choice. It is probably the most economical center fire to use. It is good for PD's out to 600yds pretty easy. On a good day you can lob them out to 800yds.


.223...600yrds...EASY! i have some ocean front property to sell ya in Montana. ill leave this post with this__ @ 600yrds if you miss judge the distence by 1 yrd in either direction youve totaly MISSED a 12" p-dog and thats just the vertical LOL and dont even get me started on *volocity deviations and variances!!! *ok ok ok lets throw in just 1/2 MPH wind @ 600yrds yep u guessed it youve totaly missed a 3 inch p-dog ( the drift is 2"+) assuming your holding dead center..and why wouldnt you be ..ya cant even feel a 1/2 mph wind LOL... and im not even going to comment on " lobing them in @ 800 yrds for gods sake!!! skruske im sorry i had to post this under your post maybe i shoulda started another thread.. im sure your were just trying to incourage the guy on his purchase. :beer: but i tired of letting this kinda BS go unchallanged.. numbers dont lie... taking out the human equation the odds of any gun/bullet hitting p-dog sized target @600 yrds is 12% in a vacume!!! pheeeeeew im done now ...carrie on


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

12% where are you getting those stats? Oh that is right 86% of stats are made up on the spot. When I shoot at PD at that range I hot far more than 12%. I can not say it is easy but it can be done far more than 12 of every 100rds rounds.


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

well i wasnt going to answer but you disided it was easer to insult me then to prove me wrong..guess it just takes to long to look it up yourself ( SO SHOOT THE MESSENGER) its easier... the only thing made up is your supernatral ability to beat the odds !! out of all those stats all you could figure out is 12% now read it again and again i know there some BIG words in there..then come back and apologize. ill bet the odds of that happening are a google to 1 OBTW 12 + 86 = 100% you da man :withstupid:


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I was not trying to insult you just call you out on your stats. I guess you have never herd that joke about stats. When ever you need a stat just make one up. Like to day 45% of stats are made up on the spot or is it 99.974%. of stats are made up on the spot?

Where did you get your percentage for hits? I go shooting PD 1 to 2 times a month and I have never seen anyone counting my misses and hits becides me. I do not claim to have supernatural ability to shoot long range. I do shoot long range every weekend I possibley can. So far this year I have only missed a few weekends. A couple were for snow and a couple were because my road was flooded. Other than that I shoot every weekend. I almost never shoot closer than 800 yds. I know you are from a Communist state or is it Natzi? I do not know what it is. All I do know is they are anti-gun. I really suggest you find a range or spot to shoot over 600 and once you get good at that then you know how much easier it is to shoot 600yds. For the record every week I shoot anywhere from 10 to 30 rds at those extened distances. I am not saying it is easy but it does get easier as time goes on. Most of the time when you are shooting at those distances there is always a group and missing a shot or two is standard. Once you get your new sight setting or hold off(If you can from your standard zero) then it is as easy as just keep shooting as long as the wind holds. This is all taking into effect your rifle is not a junker. When I shoot I do not settel on a load untill it is shot at distance. I have had some loads that would hold great at 200 but would go to hell at extened ranges.

Now to call you out. Post the link where you got 12%

Chuck Norris' testicles do not produce sperm. They produce tiny white ninjas that recognize only one mission: seek and destroy.


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

first of all im not sure why you would "call me out"..i gave you all you need in my first post so go prove me wrong. second i have no idea where the anti gun commie natzi thing came from..i now do all my shooting in and around Montana tho i shot in NJ for some 40 yrs. i dont do much hunting or shooting anymore im disabled. and last but not least why in gods name would i even think of making something up just to piss you off! if you can hit a dog 1 outta every 12 trys on average @ 600yrds god bless ya son, if you not a professional shooter you damn sure missed your calling.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

600 yards is not that big of deal when practiced and shot on a regular basis. Have a good spoter give you the readings if you miss or hit adjust the scope and shoot, repeat process. Not a .223 but had my sister in law shooting the vermin at 500 yds this week end off pi bods and a rear bags with the .308 this is the second time she has pulled trigger on any gun.

168 amax
45.5 grns varget
2.835 coal

equals dead and blown up pdogs.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I know I am not the brightest guy in the world, but any idiot can figure out that 12%= 12 out of 100. That is the only "stat" you threw out pdog. Then you fly off the handle and say you are being insulted? That is funny!!! The first time I shot at a milk jug at 910yds with my 6mm Rem I hit it 3 out of 25 rounds. That is pretty close to 12%, but I am inexperienced at that distance, and it was an untested load. It didn't seem too hard to do. Pdog after reading your first posts I figured you were 16 or so, and then I see you say you have been shooting over 40 years. That makes your posts even more laughable! Now prove what you spout! Where did you get your magical 12%??? If you can't give us that info, I have a stat for you. You are 100% full of BS!


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

dont prove me wrong just keep callin me names and attacking my credibility which you know nothing about!!... ya gotta love msg boards just through it out there and whala its the truth "i did this i did that".. everytime someone challenges something someone claims to have seen done or heard its attack the messenger ..i dont have a damn thing to prove to you or anyone else for that matter! in the infamous words of a legend " hell i was there" ( mule deer @ 600 yrds with a 44 mag revolver!!) call him a friggin BS artist i dare ya.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Must have just watched imposibel shots last week? 
taking out the human equation the odds of any gun/bullet hitting p-dog sized target @600 yrds is 12% in a vacume!!! pheeeeeew im done now ...carrie on

Could you point me in the direction that you found this statistical info as i would like to read about that theory. You need to go watch a few f class matches because the size of a pdog is big in comparison to the groups those guys shoot at 600 yds. Think of it this way a 6 inch group at 600 yards is a 1moa gun if you put it to a realtionship that way, doesnt always work that way but we are talking theorys here.
This is what i come up with using a 75 grn amax. the drift is 1.78 not 2 plus so that is one thing that is wrong but carry on. This is Bergers Balistic program.
----------------------- Program Inputs ---------------------------------+
| |
+---- Bullet Inputs -----+----Atmosphere Inputs ----+-------Sight Inputs ------+
| Caliber: 0.223 inches | Temperature: 59 degrees | Sight Height: 1.5 inches |
| Weight: 75 grains | Pressure: 29.92 inHg | Zero Range: 100 yards |
| G1 BC: 0.435 lb/in^2 | Humidity: 0 % | Look Angle: 0 degrees |
| G1 Form Factor: 0.495 | Density: 0.07647 lb/ft^3 | |
| MZL Velocity: 2700 fps| Wind Speed: .5 mph | |
| | Wind Direction: 3 O'clock| |
+------------------------+--------------------------+--------------------------+

+----------------------------- Program Output ---------------------------------+
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (inches) (sec) (inches)
0 2700 1214 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
100 2492 1034 -0.00 0.1156 -0.04
200 2294 876 -4.11 0.2411 -0.17
300 2105 738 -14.84 0.3776 -0.39
400 1926 617 -33.43 0.5266 -0.72
500 1756 514 -61.43 0.6898 -1.18
600 1598 425 -100.73 0.8689 -1.78


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

pdog, you have NO CREDIBILITY.........unless you can back up what you say!!! DUH!!!! Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. No one here has attacked the messenger, they are just questioning the validity of the message. Unless you came up with the stat you have no reason to feel threatened. Pull up your big girl panties and get on with life!

"ya gotta love msg boards just through it out there and whala its the truth "i did this i did that"

That is exactly what you did! You just threw out a random stat, and now you are pissy because we want to know where you got it.


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

thank you kertR for at least your giveing me somewhere to start.. first of all the veriation of MOA to inches is 5% ...please look it up and do your own math!! secondly a 1 inch groupe at 100yrds will NEVER be 6 inches @ 600 yrds UNless your shooting a laser..alot of shooters fall into this trap... and man are there alot of web pages out there that are dead wrong. i stoped counting at six! i call it the MOA myth! it leads you to believe that bullets fly strait and we all know they dont! ok ok then we just crank up the scope or we raise the brl to compensate "hold over" well like i said you better be @ 600 yrds or youve missed ...ok so now we ajust 4 bullet weight and speed wahla now were cookin...not so fast and no im not doing the math 4 ya!! and i can throw in enough variables to blow your mind and smoke your caulculator but let me just give u a few deviations & variances to cauculate.
1 bullet weight +-
2 speed shot to shot +-
3 case weight, lenth and wall thickness +-
4 primers +-
5 barral vibration ( affected by all the above) among other things
6 are you shooting up/down or acrossed a valley
and on and on and on
and again that just the VERTICAL!!! i dont know the "value" for human era and im sure that you can look up weather and altitude 
oh and MOA is a 5shot groupe so add in brl temp so now what are the odds of me hitting a 15 sqr inch 1.5 X 10" target @ 600 yrds with a .223 bullet

so anyway 260 you r right i cant send you to a p-dog is right page and heres how he got there! that stat was done by me and 3 other avid shooters in the mid 90s and with todays technology it may be wrong. and actualy i was looking for someone to disprove it.. but if you had any balls in your little girl panties.. all ya had to say is i did the math and your wrong and i woulda backed down ..but then again its easier to just type insults! i guess i shoulda typed it in the rocket sceince blog


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Bullet weight is a non issue as i weigh all bullets into like lots and are loaded as such.
Vel shot to shot is also a non issue as i have ran many loads over the chrony as not to have a big SD.
weigh cases and what does length effect as long as it is not getting piched in chamber, check neck tension so they are all the same.
WLR primers seem to be very consistant.

You never said any thing about moa you had a " sign which stands for inches that is why i made the calcs in inches when i get home i can switch it to MOA if you please i prefer mils my self. I prefer 10 shot groups and if using good optics not some chinese **** you should be able to dial and shoot if you know your dope for the round and conditions. It is easy to check scopes to see if they track precise or not. When i dial the scope it is 600 yds not doubts ever. I know that a 1 inch group will not translate to a 6 inch group at 600 yds but i was talking theorys just like you and your freinds have did a study in the 90's which i would like i read if you could point me in the right direction. If you would go over to snipershide i would like to see you discuss this same topic with people way above my paygrade.


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

bad news and more bad news i thought i still had all my " real world" ballistic data and caulculations but my wife just informed me it was thrown out in april..it was the only thing i had left after i sold all my other stuff in 2005.. i also called my friend and he doesnt have it either and vegly remembers the reason we did it in the first place.. he said " i thought we were trying to prove someone else wrong" Grrrrrr he also informed me that we were useing real world but mostly industry standards so i am sorry for the "vacume" comment.. i also ask him "well what did we come up with" to which he replied..hell if i remember! that was 30 yrs ago. well it was 15 yrs ago and hes now 80 so i guess ill let it slide. so the long and the short of it i cant prove it..and at this point i could care less to try. 12% sticks in my head but hell now im not even sure of that anymore and like i said could care less..like i mentioned i was hopeing with all the info on the net someone would come up with something besides insults (you not included). i also would be glad to dicuss balistics theroy and "real world" but iv been outta the game to long im affraid ..now i just plink dogs and any other target of opportunity in MT.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Edit, not sure why half of this got posted twice! Damn, computer!!!


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

You come on here telling people they are wrong, crying that you got insulted, then not being able to back up any thing you say, because, OOPS, the wife threw it away? Seriously!!!! :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

It would have been easier to just come out and say you and three others attempted an impromptu study and your results were X.

Lets talk about insults while you still seem to think you are a victim.

"... but i tired of letting this kinda BS go unchallanged.. numbers dont lie... taking out the human equation the odds of any gun/bullet hitting p-dog sized target @600 yrds is 12% in a vacume!!! pheeeeeew im done now ...carrie on "

Hmmm.....sounds like skruske just got insulted. You and your math have no idea how good a shooter he is, but you say it is BS.

Then, after people says he can hit better than 12% with absolutly no insult to you in any way. You come out with:

" the only thing made up is your supernatral ability to beat the odds !! out of all those stats all you could figure out is 12% now read it again and again i know there some BIG words in there..then come back and apologize. ill bet the odds of that happening are a google to 1 OBTW 12 + 86 = 100% you da man"

Talk about an INSULT. I would say that is being an A$$HOLE, not just insulting. I guess I am a little less tactful than some, but I call em like I see em. You can dish it out then cry when some one throws it back at you! I think you need some bran in your diet because you are FOS!!!

Not exactly sure why you are interested in my balls,( I don't swing that way, sorry) but as soon as I get a decent load worked up for the custom Lilja barreled .223 I built I will most certainly fire 100 rounds at a prairie dog target at 600yds. We will see if I just can't hit it 12(or more) times. I am guessing it won't be too difficult. As a matter of fact, I will get a few of my friends to do the same, maybe not all with .223, but we run from novice to experienced shooters, so it should give us some good info. I will make sure it doesn't get thrown away. KurtR, if you have time, give this a shot too, and let me know how you do.

I guess it takes big balls to shoot targets at 600yds? :eyeroll:


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

It will be with the .308 but i know that last week i was shooting a 12"x12" target at 600 and hit it at more than 87% percent clip not quite as small but guessing i can hit a p-dog sized on at least 12% of the time.


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

well kurt i think you gotta real nice antalope/deer/elk cartridge/gun combo there. nice shooting..but hey thats coming from a
" *pissy FOS a$$hole with no credibility that needs some bran in his diet and wears big girl panties" from the " natzi commie"* *state of NJ*.. who just got ripped for telling the truth! and all that from a 2guys. one who has trouble reading and claims to have shot 3 holes in a milk jug @ 910yrds whoopieee ... and the other who maybe mathmaticly challenged (not sure if im reading it wrong or he typed it wrong) but it doesnt matter because thier both world class shooters to say the least.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Oh, boo hoo hoo!!!! Pdog you are nothing but a petulant child, go sit in a corner and take a time out.

We will prove you wrong, with our rifles then you can come back here and apologize to every one YOU insulted.

My witness is a well respected law enforcment agent.......and he can actually REMEMBER the milk jug shooting. We did throw the milk jug away though.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

This post got way off topic. It is to funny so keep it up guys, I need some amusement.

KurtR, you've hit the nail on the head about F-class matches, there are some tiny groups at 600yds. I've shot fclass on many occations over the last several years. I've also shot some service matches, (that's open sights using a service M16, shooting a 77g SMK). I'd even be willing to bet that 12% of the bullets would land inside the size of prairie poodle at that range.

pdognut, There are many good shooters on this forum, people like to over look them and try to discredit them. Please use a bit more respect, you don't know who these people are or what they do. A little insight from my father, "never underestimate your opponent".

xdeano


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

i just got finnished typeing the profane obscene insults this jerkwade called me and whats he do he follows it up with more names...try teaching him a little respect..hell get none from me..and your right i dont know anybody on this board but you dont know me either!! and im sure theres alot of "good" shooters on here but good shooters aint hittin 15 sqr inches @ 600 yrds on a good day.. and to quote MY dad " never stoop to there level always try to bring them up to yours" well there just isnt any hope for some ppl ...and IF your friend 260 is a "match shooter" id love to see him duplacate his match shooting skills in a real world prairie dog field! and as for the 12% noone on here has yet proved me wrong.. mathematically or otherwise. so keep on laughing im getting a chuckle out of it myself. :thumb:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Pdog, respect is some thing you earn, it is not given. You started out on a level well below every one else with your insults at the beginning! Are you too stubborn to realize that? Your statements do not earn you any respect, so why should you expect any?

You just admitted you have nothing to back up your "math" yet you still cry. Even your math/shooting buddies can't back you up, so you really have nothing. That equals NO CREDIBILITY!!! You must have gone to college at some point in time, so obviously you know you have to SHOW YOUR WORK. With no work for us to see, you can't expect us to "do the math" to disprove what you say because you can't PROVE what YOU say!!!

I will, and I hope others will too, fire 100rds at a PD sized target at 600yds, and see how it goes. In fact, I will try this with .223, and a few others. Maybe even .444 Marlin. It may take a while, but it will get done.

I am no match shooter, I am not even a good shooter, but I am willing to bet my rifle is better than your non existant math. I only shoot real world conditions so that blows you out of the water again.










Laugh and the world laughs with you, Pdog, keep crying and we will keep laughing AT you!


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Good shooters are hitting a 15 square inch target at 600 yds all the time in really world conditions. i went out yesterday in the wind and shot at 12"x12" target at 600 yards 16 hits out of 20 so not as small as what is in question but i would say that is just a tad higher than 12 percent.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Ok there buddy, all we want is for you to bring "US" up to "YOUR" level. I can use quotes too. And just by doing that you are putting us down, making you think that you are well above us mentally. I have a hard time with that.

"You" have to state something like the Probability Theory. Then explain it. "You" can't just say that of your own experience with shooting dogs that of 100 rounds you hit 12 at 600yds. This is "YOUR" own experience and the largest variable is "YOU". So "you" can't deduce a probability for someone that you don't know and that you've never witnessed their shooting ability or equipment.

Maybe start over and tell us how you deduced the 12%.

Prairie dogs are 12-16" long, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prairie_dog), so lets say they're 12"x 2.5"= 30" or 5.5"x 5.5" roughly.

xdeano


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

how about this then the guy shoots 6 out of 7 shots at 1760yds on a target that is 12"x8". Oh and with a 223.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/shooting-223-mile-1.php

But then again, we're all subpar shooters. Not worth out weight in salt, and stupid too. oke:

xdeano


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

i just went from a chuckle to rotflol..now im getting wikipedia links...im done! and i will leave u with this...


skruske said:


> .223 It is good for PD's out to 600yds pretty easy. On a good day you can lob them out to 800yds.


 and to use your own words "PROVE IT"!!!!!


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Thank God! We are sick of your pseudo-intellectual rambling. I have never before seen a person use so many words and not say any thing at all!

It is proven on a daily basis all over the country. I am surprised your brilliant mathematical mind(ha ha) can't grasp that.

I guess I don't have to shoot up any extra ammo now. I was looking forward to showing you how wrong you are. Too bad, you throw out a few insults and run away like a kid on the playground.


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

You are soooooooooo right at three against one. I ran off the play ground strait to the library ( you know the one next to the math room) oh and sorry I wasn't "crying" my eyes were watering from reading all this nonsense 
Here's wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minute_of_arc

Here's the math

http://fuzzylimey.net/coachtalk/groupanal.html

And using you own site here's the PROOF!!!

http://www.longrangehunting.com/article ... oups-1.php

and again no weather no human error and as close to a vacume (computer generated) as I could find..

now I am going to assume you can do the math .. and at this point id like to bring you "up to my level" my guest house in MT is @ 3220ft you are welcome to come up to that level and shoot anytime.. starting next spring. iffin that suits your fancy?.. balls in your court .
oh and BROP ( bring your own panties) oke: 
man i realy need to get off these meds....i believe i just crack a smile :wink: go figure


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Damn, MEDS, that is the reason for your babbling. You can't answer simple questions and keep repeating the one thing stuck in your head (disprove 12%) over and over and over. That is very common when dealing with people who are under the influence of drugs/alcohol.

We can't take any thing you say seriously because you are doped up, why didn't you say so in the first place?!?!?! :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

You gave us thee links that tell us NOTHING about your mythical 12% at 600 yds. You better check back with your Dr. I think you are over medicating!

"If you want to test the long-term group size of your rifle, I suggest that you shoot three five-shot groups and take the average. This average will give you the true value, plus or minus 25 percent, 95 percent of the time. Getting it much tighter than that takes a lot more ammunition. Shooting twelve groups instead of three roughly halves the error. Three five-shot groups are a good balance between precision and cost."

WOW plus or minus 25% 95% of the time. SO you could have a 50% error almost 100% of the time, that is GREAT!!!! :eyeroll:
Plus, if you shoot 4 times as many groups you can reduce your error to only 25%, FANTASTIC!!! Those are some great stats!!!

That is even worse than the odds the weather man will be correct tomorrow! :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Go back and read your posts, if you can in your altered state, sounds like crying to the rest of us!

If you were even close on your "math" it wouldn't matter if it were 1000 to 1, but you can't prove any thing you say(your work just HAPPENED to get thrown away, remember?). Now, run along like you said you were going to, and let us out shoot your 12%. Check back periodically and look for pix of the targets.

I do have to give you one though, BYOP is DAMN FUNNY!!!!! :thumb:


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

I dont have to wait till spring to shoot pdogs i will just go a 3 miles west and do it. Also that advantage of being a 1000 feet or so higher in elevation would be nice. See the difference here is i probally put more rounds down range in month than you do in a year. Shooting at everything not just a few vermin that i see running around my vacation house. Why not just move out here than you can do some real shooting and do another study and save it. If it is less than a 10 shot group dont care so the five shot group study is a waste of time. It is funny how people think that some thing can not be done just because they are not capable of doing it. XDeano posted a video of what the .223 is capable of doing that is proof not some off the cuff 12% vacume in the perfect world BS. Montana is a big place so you will have to narrow it down a little as i am sure a road trip could be in order as it is not that far from here.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

WOW is this a circular conversion.

All of your links are about MOA and how it has an effect on group size on a computer model. The last time I checked I wasn't using my computer to shoot my rifle there Bud.

I was hoping by putting the Probability Theory up there for you to grasp at straws and it worked. The last link you put out there serves my point perfect. These are all computer based statistical probability without a human factor. He even states in the work. There is no way to put in the correct variables for each person to statistically make a model on a computer. The variables vary so much from shooter to shooter. Here is how probability works, you have a 50/50 chance of hitting the target with one round all of the time. If you shoot 1 round at a target, the first one you shoot you close your eyes and pull the trigger, your probability of hitting that target is 50%. The second shot I shoot at the same target as you but with my eyes open I have 50% chance of hitting. But beings that I had my eyes open while shooting the target my probability of hitting that target will be considerably higher.

Back in 1970 when powders, primers, bullets, cases were all pretty rough yet, people didn't care a whole lot about tiny groups, except for an elite few. They have made leaps and bounds in technology since then. So if you are basing you 12% on your own groups, guns, and shooting ability, then I can see where you got your 12%. Most of us have followed the path to better components and equipment to reduce variables, and what a new world it has opened up. Shooting smaller groups that were never before possible and stretching the legs on rounds that were sub-par before.

xdeano


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

never mind i just proved it to you and all ya got to say is YADA YADA YADA must be your meds "KMA" your right i am above you ..you cant read and you cant do math..and you attack me personaly instead of admitting your wrong!! your are a total waste of my time. obtw im not on any meds but you just couldnt resist taking the bait!!! you are a true piece of work


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

I wonder what gun and componets that you are shooting? I just dont understand why it is so improbable to believe hitting a pdog at 600 yds does not happen on regular basis. i think xdeano hit the nail on the head even if your studys were 15 years ago everything has grown in leaps and bounds. From powder to bullets to brass even the glass that is now available. I still have a long long ways to go in learning this art but 600 with todays stuff just is not that hard. I watched a lady who was just shoting here first few shots hit a golf ball at 500 yards buy the end of the day with proper training and equipment.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Since we are adding links this one is why i love the hide.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... w=1#UNREAD


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

p-dognut said:


> after 4 wks in MT braving the rain hail snow and heat.. I have to report the 223 was way to much gun for dogs and* my 17hmr was shooting well i reached out to 223 yrds on 3 different dogs and a 238yrd with it. It took 24 rds ( three clips) to connect with that 1 dog LOL.*went 27 for 40 in 15mins at a small town with a 10/22 that flatout wanted to shoot that day for some reason. anyway i have no clue how many dogs i shot but i do know i shot 600rds 17hmr 300rds 22win mag 200 22lr and 120rds .223 for a grand total of 3 yots 1 skunk and 1 pork u pine.


Well if thats they way you shoot all the time I could see where you get the 12% well actually 4.16% to be exact and thats not even at 600 yrds. :-?


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

again you cant READ ya kinda missed the part where i mentioned i was disabled ..and another site where a buncha guys who r super shooters cant prove chit and running there mouth.. and ofcourse the link i sent you where the guy gave you what you need to prove me right ...is a fos a$$hole...but YOU gave me the site LOL.. you guys belong right where u are ...ON A MSG BOARD .. show me your five ..five shot groupes!! betcha they look like #4 buck at 10 yrds
oh and more math wizzes " i shot a 10" plate hit it whatever times" does anybody know math cause none of you no your *** from a whole in the ground when it comes to ballistics!!! oh and SUPER sized Mcdonalds "fatty" dogs guy doesnt even know what 4" diameter is LMFAO and hes a avid shooter.. nice cheapshot posting this somewhere else but i guess i shouldnt have been surprised its about all your worth. after reading thier post i realized thier just more uneducated BS artist like you are. wow i can get in the mud to..feels kinda gooooood


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Here ya go, now shut up. I'm not one for bragging, so this is a one time shot.

These groups were shot several years ago, with a Rem 700Police. These were just test loads. Since then i've since sold because it wasn't giving me small enough groups. I bought a GAP Crusader to replace it.

These groups were shot in one session. If you can't read the group size, the first and second groups were .192" and the third was a bit larger at .3795". I know others have much smaller groups than that, so i know i'm not special.

So lets see .192"x 6 = 1.152" at 600yds. That's well within your specs of a pd. Of course I can't do that every day but i know the gun sure can. Now i'm sure you'll come back with wind and drop and all that. I can deal with that too.

xdeano


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

oh and that was a factory gun, nothing done to it. So if I can print decent groups with a factory gun, it means that many people out there have the ability to do the same or better.

xdeano


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

here is a link you might want to take a gander at http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek051.html granted they are only talking about a 5 shot group. But i'm pretty sure however you look at it that would be way better than a 12% hit rate on a p-dog sized target.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

You know you talk alot if shat for admitingly shooting like crap. i asked where in montana as there are alot of people who live close to there and would love to give you some demonstratons on the capabilitys of there equipment. Supersized pdog guy does not live that far from me and i bet a road trip would fit into alot of schedules. I posted the math and unless you know more about ballistics than berger bullet co i would quit trying to be a internet comando/pdog ninja and come to the fact that you dont know **** if you think the .223 is to much gun. I know a few guys who are dissabled and can shoot circles around me so not an excuse.


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## p-dognut (Mar 9, 2009)

my last post on this topic and on this board

xdeano.. nice shooting.and thanx for helping me prove my point. my guess is that your way past a "good shooter" if that groupe isnt good enough for ya...heres another target for ya go ask the guy in the artical i posted what he thinks.. maybe hell convince you..but hey atleast you posted a target!

kurtr.. after me saying on here that ppl cant read..i did it myself..i missed you asking me "where in montana" and up until your last post i probly woulda somehow got that info to you..but after your sorry a$$ typed this POS statement.


KurtR said:


> I know a few guys who are dissabled and can shoot circles around me so not an excuse.


 so unless your disfigured and disabled *STFU...DONT EVER PREACH TO ME ABOUT WTF YOU THINK I SHOULD BE ABLE TO DO OR NOT TO DO!!*
my last stat to you is ......you are 12% lower then whale $ht! good fu&*ing bye


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

AGAIN WITH THE CRYING!!!!!

You are not smart enough to admit you are way off base when a bunch of people who shoot on a regular basis tell you they can do some thing you say they can't.

You are not smart enough to PROVE to those same people how you came up with the numbers.(I don't think you ever did)

You are not smart enough to realize YOU started all this with YOUR insults to others.

You are not smart enough to grasp a chance to save face and blame your rambling on your meds. By telling us you are not doped up you just show that you really are dumb enough to believe what you are saying.

You can't spell.
You can't shoot worth a $hit.
You can't perform the "math".
You can't quit when given a chance to lose gracefully.

GOOD BYE AND GOOD RIDDANCE!!!!!
Do check back for 600yd targets posted in the future for your viewing pleasure, or in this case to b**ch slap your 12% back to reality.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

I know you will look, but one of guys i know is in a wheel chair and has only one leg after a accident and he shoots alot better than me. the others just have varying disabilatys but they do not use it as a excuse they just adapt and overcome and shoot really friken good. Judging from how you type you are a 15 year old dip**** that got in to deep and is making it up as you go along. If you spent as much time shooting as you do being a dumb *** you would be one hell of a shot. Go take your BSA and cry in a corner.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Was he on the Sopranos?


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