# .300 RUM 208gr A-Max



## nconstant123

Has anyone worked up any loads with this? Just curious what people think of them. I am thinking of trying it out and looking to see if anyone has some data to try for starters. Thanks


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## CoyotieKiller

I'm in the process of working up a load for the bullet. I just did five shot groups with 6 different powders, varying the amount of powder with each shot. Retumbo won with my gun (rem 700). I'm thinking it's going to work out quite nicely, even with the varying charges it was about an 1 3/8" group. I varied from the min to the max. And I haven't played with the headspacing at all yet.


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## Plainsman

I heard you were trying to get that Hornady paper puncher working for you.  I have a decent load (group .4 inch) now with the 185 Burger VLD in my 300 Win mag. The only problem is my throat is so long that I have less than 1/8 of an inch of bore diameter bullet in the neck of the brass. So now I have a box of 210 Burger VLD. I found a recommended target load on the internet, but was disappointed in the 2750 fps velocity. There was absolutely no pressure so I am going to bring it up 1/2 gr at a time. The best powder so far is R22 (edit: ooops make that R25), but I think I will give Retumbo or H1000 a try. I think Retumbo works better in cartidges with large case capacity like your 300 RUM. Have you chronographed your load, and if so what is your velocity?


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## Savage260

I keep reading H1000 is the cat's meow for the 300 RUM based .338 Edge. But that is with the 300gr SMK, I have no idea what works better with the little 208gr bullets.  I have 50 loaded with Retumbo for fire forming, then I will load em with H1000 and see what I find. Of course I need to get my barrel back from the smith first!


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## Plainsman

> I have no idea what works better with the little 208gr bullets.


 :rollin:

Ya, I'm getting kind of old so I'm sticking with them itty bitty things. I like my retinas intact.


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## Savage260

I just heard from a guy today that shot his Edge with no brake "just to try it". He said it wasn't too bad. I am guessing the rifle weighs about 14-15lbs, but I would still like a brake on it!


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## Plainsman

Order n Constant Coefﬁcient Linear Ordinary Differential Equations and Matrix Exponential, how is that reloading experiment going? I have eight reloading manuals and new powders are coming out so often none are up to date. I picked up four pounds of R17 a couple of months ago, a pound of Superformance last week and after going on Hogdons reloading guide I bought a pound of Retumbo today. I am going to see if I can get that 210 gr Berger VLD out of first gear. I know your Ultramag is going to run all over my Winchester, but let me know what your velocity is when you settle on a load.


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## CoyotieKiller

I hope to do some shooting tomorrow with it. Probably set up the crony then. I trapped a 50lb beaver with a small bald spot and a bunch of missing guard hairs so I set him out at 200yds, lined up so I can shot him lengthwise. I figure that will be interesting.


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## Plainsman

That should be better than the old wet newspaper trick. It will be interesting to see how that A-Max holds up.


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## CoyotieKiller

Well its official, I have about 150, 208gr varmint bullets. I thought that by the time it had traveled 200yds, it would have slowed enough to do a better job than it did. I shot him lengthwise, went in through the thick skin by the tail and the farthest piece of shrap metal I could find went through his heart. Nothing was left for the bullet. I still had some 180 SST's from last year and they tossed Mr. Beaver around better than the 208s. I wish they made those in a 200+ weight. Before I found the A-max I had planned on using the 210 bergers. Back to the drawing board I guess. :lame:


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## Plainsman

Ya, a neighbor give me some 6.5 123gr A-Max he wanted me to try. Since they didn't say not for target he was wondering if they may have come out with one that could be used for target. They shoot OK, but don't hold together at all. The 208 may be good for deer at 1000 yards if the open reliably. The problem I have found with the SMK is sometimes they blow and sometimes they are like full metal. You can't count on them, but then they are not advertised for hunting either.
I hope to get out with the 210 Berger VLD this week. In one of my manuals it lists a 220 gr at 2840 I might be off ten fps, but if that's true the 210 should be at least 40 or 50 fps faster. If I can get 2900 or close I will be shooting it this fall. Well, if the accuracy is OK. I don't want to go looking for a target right now, but I think I got just under .5 inch with the 185 last year and that wasn't acceptable. However, last year I had them set way back so they would go in the magazine.
Have you ever considered the Xbullet, or the Scirocco? I think with your case capacity that 210 Berger would be optimal if accuracy is good. I guess the key to accuracy with the Burger is they need to be close to the lands. At least that's what I read in all of the literature.


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## KurtR

168 amax out of .308 moving alot slower than yours has not failed me yet 9 deer and counting with most having dime size entry and quater on off side. Only recovered 1 bullet on a doe about 450yds away


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## Plainsman

> 168 amax out of .308 moving alot slower than yours


I think that's the key: a lot slower. Velocity blows that bullet apart. I have shot the 168 out of my 308 into water, and it blows to pieces. Also, I think some are trying to get the heavy bullets to perform on elk size animals not deer.

I will try the 210 Berger on deer this fall, and will head to the range this week to try the 185 over the chronograph. With R17 one is supposed to achieve 2700 fps with the 185 in a 308. I guess I'll find out.


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## Savage260

The 105 A-max is extremely explosive, even at 900yds and 1100fps. The largest piece i could find in the milk jugs was about the size of the red tip on the bullet. I just figured the A-max were all explosive.


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## CoyotieKiller

The data i've seen on the x-bullets suggest that they have trouble breaking that 3000 fps mark with the 200 grainers. I used Scirocco II's in 180 2 seasons ago and all of the shoots were real close (coyote 90yds, he's my profile picture, that hole is about the size of a volleyball; and the other was a deer at something like 67 paces, it looked like it left a crater in his upper chest and the bullet exploded, no exit. I realize you can't expect a bullet to hold up very well under those circumstances but they just didn't tickle my fancy I guess.
Expanding on the beaver test a little. I lost the bullet path after maybe 6" max after that it disintegrated. My dad was watching wit the bino's and said it kinda looked like he expanded a little and then went back to normal size. The 180 SST flipped him, lengthwise. I say that's better performance.


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## KurtR

The 105amax out of the 6mm is hell on speed goats have only shot 4 but they were all bang flops from about 200 to 400. Same results as the 168 amax dime enterance with a quarter on the exit side. The only bullet i had blow up on me was a 95 grn sst and from that point on i have not brought my self back to shooting the sst's. I keep talking but need to get after the 155 scenar as i have seen the results of them on deer and elk so big i would faint if i got one. If you dont want those 208's go to snipershide as they are imposible for some to find and will sell in a second. i know people have been loving them since they have came out.


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## Plainsman

Here is a pic of a Scenar I shot through a deer lengthwise. My son found it on the ground behind the deer. It's the opposite of the A-Max with no expansion at all. I think the original pic is on my other computer, but this is copied from my album on this site. You can see it better in the album.


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## CoyotieKiller

I'll keep the sniperhide thing in mind, but for now I think I want to see if I can make one coyote into two with them. I had bought some 110gr V-max's after I saw that i can get them cooking in the neigborhood of 4000 fps and I had hoped to lay the hunt on some songdogs with that, but now these have me interested. Considering the thickness of antelope, I might consider using them for that as well.


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## Plainsman

It's tough to find a bullet that will do everything for you. If you want a tough bullet that will hold together at high velocity and within 200 yards it likely will not open reliably at 1000 yards. On the other hand the best bullet at 1000 yards will likely not hold together at 100 yards. Perhaps the closest you can come to that is the Xbullet. They advertise reliable opening down to 1700 fps.
I think about the best you can do for long range may be the Burger VLD hunting bullet. I need to check it out for reliable opening on something at about 800 yards. Ballistic coefficient is important for long range, but I think the XBullet and the A-Max have exaggerated ballistic coefficients. I think sectional density is important also. For example I have shot 180 gr Xbullets and 180 gr Ballistic Tips. The X Bullet advertised a higher ballistic coefficient, but both hit the same spot at 1000 yards. I think the reason was both bullets had the same weight, both had the same frontal and rear profile. The X Bullet was as long as a 200 gr regular bullet, but being made out of copper it had no more momentum than any other 180 gr bullet. The A-Max has a large air pocket in the front. I noticed the 140 6.5 A-Max is now shorter and with a lower ballistic coefficient than those two years ago. Same weight, but shorter means the air pocket up front is gone. I think they are more accurate without that air pocket and the weight rearward that they had before.


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## CoyotieKiller

I already got my fingers on the 210 VLD's. Scheels in Fargo have some and my brother picked up some for me when he was down there. Seems like they do the job on longrange on the best of the west show.


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## KurtR

Only issue i have with vld is price and they will not shoot unless loaded so long i have to shoot remm 700 as a single shot. Everything looks like it works like the cats *** with proper editing. It seems if you look you can find storys about every bullet not performing at some point in time. Some times the bullet gods are just not in your favor but that is where all the practice comes in with a quick follow up shot.


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## Plainsman

> Only issue i have with vld is price and they will not shoot unless loaded so long i have to shoot remm 700 as a single shot.


I know what you mean. I paid $49 at Scheels, but bought my last 300 at Powder Valley for $33 per 100. As for single shot, ya I do have to load my Sendero single shot. The Cooper I bought last fall I simply bought single shot. It's no problem because there is no such thing as a fast follow up shot for 1000 yard shooting.


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## CoyotieKiller

Very true about the editing. But if the bullet didn't perform with the first shot, I doubt Mr. Elk would be very agreeable to doing the scene over again. :laugh:


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## KurtR

Those are the scenes that get left on the cutting room floor. When shooting far and when i drive properly i can watch impact of bullet and if need be follow up quite quickly. I have only done that on steel and not a real situation with the adrenalin pumping but that is where all the practice should take over and be second nature. In theory


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## Plainsman

coyotiekiller I made it out and chronographed last Friday. With Winchester brass and Federal magnum match primers and 80.5 gr Retumbo I got 2870 fps. With Federal brass and CCI magnum primers and 80.5 gr of Retumbo I got 2913 fps. Accounting for ten feet from the chronograph that gives me 2921 fps. Now I need to find out if the difference in velocity was the brass or the primers, or both. It's impossible to find Federal Gold 300 Win brass. 
Oh, and the group with Winchester brass etc was .6 inches. The group with Federal brass etc was .35 inches. I am .004 off the lands. 
I would guess your going to push about 3100+ fps in your ultramag. 
I think I will be shooting the 210 gr VLD for deer this fall. I hope the winter die off was not bad back home because I would like to buy an extra four or five doe license to feed my 6.5X284.

Edit: I did have some Winchester brass loaded with 81 gr Retumbo. I gained no velocity, but experienced a sticky bolt and the start of excess pressure.


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## huntin1

Plainsman said:


> Only issue i have with vld is price and they will not shoot unless loaded so long i have to shoot remm 700 as a single shot.
> 
> 
> 
> I know what you mean. I paid $49 at Scheels, but bought my last 300 at Powder Valley for *$33 per 100.* As for single shot, ya I do have to load my Sendero single shot. The Cooper I bought last fall I simply bought single shot. It's no problem because there is no such thing as a fast follow up shot for 1000 yard shooting.
Click to expand...

Jeez, how long ago did you buy those? I just ordered a box of Berger 175 VLD's from Powder Valley, cost was $43.11 and 6.90 for shipping. Hope that 10FP shoots them decent.

huntin1


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## CoyotieKiller

Plainsman, I chronographed a few shots yesterday, using 89.0grs of Retumbo I only got 2940 from about 12' away. Remington brass, CCI Mag primes. The weird thing is that I've seen online where other people with almost the exact same setup are claiming 3025fps (Fed primers instead) :shake: . (I read online where someone had called Hornady and asked where to find data for there 208's and they told him to just use the 220 round nose data.) In the little Ultra Mag booklet with all of the loads for it, Hogdons said 89.0 was the max amount of powder to use on the 220's, but Sierra said that I could go all the way up to 91 or 92 grains (I don't have the manual handy at the moment). I think I'm going to inch up a little more, I'd like to get to 3000fps or so. 
What brand of Mic set do you have? Mine said I should be 0.002 of the lands and when I checked the first one I loaded up I got slight marks on it from the lands, so I ended up going .006 total from where my tool said my lands were.


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## Plainsman

I forget the brand of my mic, but I bought it at BigR. It reads in inches, mm, and fractions of an inch, so I originally bought it for work with my router. It measures in .0001 inches but uses batteries like crazy. Every time I pick it up it needs batteries so I bought a new RCBS yesterday.
I also bought the bullet comparator this winter. I know they say that Bergers like to be close to the lands. I read that one guy was actually pushing them .010 into the lands. I don't understand how they can do that and not have pressure unless they are shooting very low loads. I loaded .008, .006, and .004 in my 6.5X284 last winter. Groups were poor at .008 and under 2/10 inch at .006, and started building pressure at .004.
I started the 210gr for my 300 Win mag at .006 and it groups about 1/3 inch. My velocity with Winchester brass, Federal match primers, and 80.5 gr Retumbo was 2878. I don't know if it was the brass or the primers, but when I switched to Federal brass and CCI primers my velocity average was (I think it was 2913 ten feet from the muzzle) 2921 adjusted for ten feet from the muzzle. I am sure you will get to 3000 fps. I'll bet your primers show no sign of pressure with the load you have now. 
I'll be testing some more when it gets nice out. This last week I have spent fighting the flood in Bismarck.


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## CoyotieKiller

Got just under half an inch with those 210 Bergers. With Remington brass, CCI mag primers, and 92.3 grains of Retumbo they're cooking 3047fps @ 10 feet from the chrony. Good enough I figure.:thumb: 
On a side note, I checked my lug contact and it seems like the one doesn't even touch at all. :down: Can you get away with much lapping on the lugs before you screw up your headspacing??


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