# HNRC Hearing today



## rap (Mar 26, 2002)

just wondering how it went today? i'm in school, lots of fun...


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

I wanted to offer kudos to Dan for what I thought was a very good presentation and prebuttal of the things the anits were going to come up with. Also Mike Johnson did what I thought was a bang up job of explainging the system and showing how valid the model is. I thought the questions aimed at the antis were more pointed than the questions to the pro 2048 people. One thing that jumped out at me was that excepting Rep Nelsons son, not one person spoke in opposition who was not either a paid spokesman, or somene standing to gain monetarily. I come out with some confidence. Wish I could have stayed for the afternoon session going on as we speak, but simply could not. Wainting to hear what the others from the board thought. Nice to meet many of you. Tom


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## rap (Mar 26, 2002)

what did the numbers look like for each side??


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I just got back also.Missed you Tom,didn't get to meet you.I got a lot out of the session and met a bunch of people from here,so now I can put names with faces.
With the wind picking up and snowing,I decided to get home before it got dark.So I missed the afternoon session.
I thought the pro side did a good job...Especially Mark Hamilton and Dan.I had not seen Mike Johnsons presentation and I thought it was well presented.
As Tom said everyone who spoke against it this morning had money to gain.And outside of the 1 outfitter none of them hunt.
I thought Randy Frost did a poor job.He tried to put in way to many numbers and after awhile no one could remember any of it.
I also thought some of the questions by Rep. Nelson were out of line.Isn't his job to be a kind of moderator and not give testimony while he is sitting there?
Most of the pro people were wearing blue buttons,and there seemed to be a lot more with them than without.
Nelson appointed a sub committee to look at amendments they might want to add to the bill.He also said the HNRC will take a vote next Thursday to make a reccommendation.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Ken did Kyle blanchfield testify and was there anyone fromGNDA or the tourium dept.

Ron


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't know Blatnchfield,but he didn't testify this morning.Maybe this afternoon.Yes there was a guy who testified for GNDA and a woman for Tourism and another woman for Hospitality.None were hunters.The Farm Bureau also had someone testify.Jon Nelsons son testified and a student from NDSU also and of course Frost.the one outfitter was from west of Minot.All against.

Dan...a picture of you testifing is on the front page of todays Minot paper.


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## nd resident (Mar 7, 2003)

What is wrong with rural ND getting some monetary value out of the wildlife they raise? We would not think of going to the larger ND cities and trying to get on the golf course without paying a green fee yet the wildlife in many cases cost far more for the individual landowner to produce then the greens on the golf course cost the city dweller to maintain. I believe this controversy could be put to rest if the resident ND hunter was just willing to spend a little money in rural ND amd not expect it to be free. After all there is very little left in rural ND aand most of my neighbors drive many miles for the most basic of necessities. To be willing to keep some of these smaller communties going would be a big plus in the locals eyes for the resident hunter if he was willing to support them like the rural resident supports the larger cities everytime he goes to town with his checkbook. Just wondering what the big deal is about spending a little money in rural ND is all about?


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I do spend money. Hotels, gas stations, grocery stores, and bars all get some of my business when I am in rural ND hunting and fishing. I am a college student and if every farmer wanted a 50 dollar bill to hunt. I could not afford to do it. Period. If that was the case I would not hunt at all, which means that rural ND gets none of my money.

I know this has been hashed out many times on this forum but, the reason I want to stay in ND after I am done with school is because I love the outdoor oppurtunities here. If I have to pay to hunt I am going to leave this state. I might as well. If I have to pay to hunt I might as well try to make as much money as I can so I can hunt more. Take a guess where there is more money. States other than ND. Which means ND doesn't get to use the education I recieved here or the money that I will be making.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I live in a small town YEAR ROUND I spend almost all of my money here.When I hunt pheasants I stay in a motel and eat in a resturant,and buy gas there.
I am almost ready to retire.I want to stay on this side of the Red River.But if there is no place to hunt,I will retire in Minn. where the fishing is better,and I don't have to pay to launch my boat.Then ND looses all my money,because I will hunt in Canada.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

We stuck around for the afternoon session....until 4:45. There was another bill scheduled, so testimony didn't start until 3:45. We got on the road before the final testimony by the other side (it would all be the same argument anyways)...so I'm waiting to hear how they went.

We got some great testimony in the afternoon from many from this site. By the end of the day, the other side didn't have too many arguments left...we had squashed many of them.

I felt sorry for Jon Nelson's kid. Not only did his own dad force him to speak (no way he wrote that testimony at that age).... but the kid clearly didn't want to be there (SERIOUSLY bored). Pretty pathetic.

In my opinion, we outnumbered the other side 60/40.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

The GF Herald's perspective :

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandfork ... 335817.htm


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## Miller (Mar 2, 2002)

Terrible article, I expect poor journalism like this from the Forum and not the herald.

Not only is the article completely one-sided, but I guess it's more important to interview a teacher bringing students for a field trip rather than those that put in long hours on the issue. :roll:


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Was the Herald reporter at the same hearing as those who have posted above? It sure doesn't sound like it. The reporter painted a pretty bleak picture for HPC.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Can you say advertising dollars pressure? Nothing concrete, but just a idea.

Lest see Scheels, Cabela's are big in that area.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

I think the frustration expressed over the story had to do with the implication concerning the relative amount of support/opposition at the hearing yesterday. The supporters (warm bodies present) outnumbered the opponents roughly three-to-two (conservative). There was good testimony on all sides, and pro/con testimony filled all available pro/con allotted time. It was wholly inaccurate to report that "most were critical of it."

Many thanks to all of the Sportspersons who took time from their lives and traveled great distances to be present and give good testimony. It was a great showing.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Nobody deserves a thank you more than you Dan. If anyone on this site had any idea how much time and effort Dan put into this session...they'd be shocked!

Again....thank *you* Dan. :beer:

And I agree....it was a great showing!


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Yeah thanks to all for the ideas & support - it's been a lesson for me :roll: Not sure I like the whole Legislative process 

Hopefully win or lose or tie - we have all learned - we can no longer trust, or take for granted, things like we did in the past.

But ND will never be the same - But it is still better than most other places & if we have helped keep it that way a little longer than that is good :beer:

Plus were so close to Canada - were crazy not to go there (especially for SOB Hunting & real natural upland birds)  I would'nt drive more than 5 miles to shoot a pheasant again :******: - Where ever they are, trouble follows & all of em were released at one time - with the idea of giving us more opportunities.

Man only thinks they are in control of anything in the outdoors :roll: - But too many men, in one place, at one time, to do the same things - is controlable & should be.


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## goosehtr4life (Dec 16, 2002)

Fetch, why wouldn't you hunt pheasants in No. Dak? I don't understand your stance on this.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Dan...if you want to see your picture and read the article...go to minotdailynews.com

Great job!!!


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## rap (Mar 26, 2002)

ya, front page dan! the minot daily has had great articles all year on this subject, they actually provide both side of the story..


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Maybe next time I need to wear a big sign around my neck so they write both sides, saying

PLEASE INTERVIEW ME!!!


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## rap (Mar 26, 2002)

lol, couldn't hurt any... i was very surprised at the GF Herald article today, they have been writing good articles sharing both sides until this one.. i didn't see any articles from the forum today?


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

The Forum was the same old one side view.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Just recovering from burnout. In hindsight, we should have video taped the hearings. It would be intersting to post clips of the actual testimony so the folks that stayed at home would get the true barbecue flavor.


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## nd resident (Mar 7, 2003)

Gandergrinder and Ken: If I could assure you of having a place to hunt waterfowl every year for free in one of the prime waterfowl areas of the US, would you consider moving your family to my little communty and putting down roots here? Our schools, churches and area in general could really use some new blood. The larger cities in ND are doing just fine compared to the very rural areas in this state and lets face it, Grand Forks will not really miss you if you move but if you would relocate up here, put down roots and then have to leave this area, it would miss you a great deal. How about it? Move out here and give it a shot for a few years. It really doesn't matter to us rural locals if Grand Forks, Fargo, Jamestown and the other cities in ND lose a few people over this. It matters more that we retain EVERYONE in our little communities and not lose one single person because of the lack of income opportunities. One of these income opportunity is the wildlife which we produce, feed and expect to be able to harvest every year. I can appreciate where you are coming from but unless you get some connection with the land you are going to have to expect to pay in the future in ND as you would have to in any other state.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Goosehuntr4life

I have just seen it turn into a big hassle - finding a room - driving that far - asking to hunt & more often than not being turned down (even before pay to hunt them)

I can remember times when there were few pheasants around - then the NDG&FD & many farmers & clubs like pheasants forever started releasing them. & in many areas they took off & survived on their own. But I still feel the majority are released - just like a preserve hunt.

Why not go out to a local pheasant farm & buy your limit of birds & work your dog ??? Thats all that many of the bigger pay to hunt operations are doing anyway.

After phesantgate & all the bad feelings & awareness & hassles the past couple years. Also the proliferation of pay to hunt places catering to out of State hunters - it will never be the same for me.

I sure wish more towns & the tourism Dept. refocuses their goals to work with towns & farmers & landowners to do things to promote their areas for Freelance hunting. Let (& trust) the G&FD to manage things - ??? :eyeroll: - I still think zones & limits on hunters per zone & try to spread them out, thru out the entire season, is what would be the best next step beyond HPC. But I doubt the G&FD will want to take the lead & persue this - after all this crap 

I still think ND is and can be even more special for hunting - as long as nature cooperates. I hope things like PLOTS & leasing wetlands & fields that waterfowl use (each fall) could be expanded (by regions, or around towns that truely want to see fall hunting Help their economy's - their needs to be a division, or group to promote, helping towns plan for & implement positive ideas to do things to help promote wildlife conservation & managable hunting. Not just a free for all, or high dollar pay to hunt private operations.

Sure there is a need & demand for those that want that - but NEVER at the expense of, or as a detriment to the average guy & his family & friends & youth not being able to participate.

I've mentioned before how commercial or Corporate hunting needs to be controled & also have limits. One guide should not be able to lease huge quanities of land & hire people to work for them as surposed "guides" where all the hired guides can operate under one outfitters, or main Guides libility insurance or fees to the State. These are the guys who are creating the areas & regions of too much pressure.

Up until recently all (or most ) legislation has been introduced to make things go the guides ways - be beneficial to them. We regular Freelance Hunters thought the G&FD were protecting & fighting for our best interests (& YES I think they want to ) But it is no longer happening. & we find ourselves just being re-active to things & hopeing we can survive the currant (not so good) Legislation.

It's also time for Freelance Hunters to start putting something back (Time - effort & politics & Money) to promote & increase opportunities for us. Do more to improve access & work with Farmers & Landowners & G&FD to improve habitat & educate them in how & why they should share the resources & help the resources thrive. We all have to do more to Help them be the True keepers of the Public Trust Doctrines of wildlife - in ways they like & feel good about - even ways they can get assistance from our $$$ - so they want to participate & expand & promote Managed Freelance hunting. - If it is only going to be done thru profit & commercialization & Legislators & Economic & Tourism folks that do not really understand Hunting- & just let Free Enterprise run it's course - I think we have seen what & how they would do it.

I'd say the 1st step is to find out if & how the G&FD can help - if not thru them & cooperation from the State agencies - then thru Clubs & organizations that have our's & the Farmers & small towns true best interests in mind.

This last couple years hopefully will be our wake up call - Not just get fired up for the Legislative sessions & play this game (reactive) every 2 years. Just think of the financial help & knowledge there is in our State - plus find ways to get those Freelancers from out of State, to trust & work with Resident Freelancers - We could & should be a positive force to be recconded with.

I have learned alot about who's who from the past couple years & plan to join the better groups involved. (They will always be regional or local) but somehow their needs to be an advisory board (with strength & power & influence) to be a Statewide influence in all we have learned & expirenced in recent years.

I still think the internet is the way to make it happen - Travel & time & expenses makes it to hard to participate any other way. As goofy as old Ross Perot was - in his vision & quest for a political party - he had some good ideas, that we should try to adopt & use to never be second fiddle to a small minority who does all they can to manipulate & use false rumors & debateable concerns to push & influence their agendas.

It all comes down to Truth & Honesty & Respect - something I still think is plentiful in ND.

ND has always been special & found ways to do things different than most other States. Hunters need to tap into that spirit & find ways to promote things, all interested parties can hopefully agree on, that will benefit & improve ND. Or will we just find ourselves slowly being taken over by the few with personal profit in mind *???*


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

One of our Heros

http://www.minotdailynews.com/daily/FMP ... ax=1&-Find


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

NDresident...I've lived in a small town for the past 30 years.That's what I'm saying.If the hunting is gone,why should I stay here?I might just as well move to Minn.,get paid more,and spend a week in Canada.


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Chris,

First, it is too bad you did leave early, as you and the group you left with did not show any respect for the other opinion. We stayed for all of yours and everyone else's opinion. It was an isightful day for all. And, to the young man who was with you who was supposed to be in school, it is too bad he had to lie to be there and it is also too bad you condoned this behavior. If he had to lie because of his parents or the school it is too bad they did not appreciate his passion. But, it is worse for you to have helped him defy either.

As to your slam of Mr. Nelson's son, I am amazed at this after you admonished me for earlier quotes refering to the youth of our state. Neither you or I know wether the young man wrote his own comments and we all should, in your own opinion, be able to express our views in the legislature. That is what makes this great country what it is.

Dan,

I appreciated your points and comments yesterday. I do think, after all the testimony, the access issue has now really surfaced full force. Mr. French's lack of understanding of the chairmans question was most unfortunate for him as I thought he was this expert on quality of life. Your joke to start out was a nice ice breaker.

Hardwaterman,

I can assure you it was not advertising pressure that prompted the article written. I advertise in the newspaper alot and believe me, advertisers have absolutly no influence on articles written. The article was written through the eyes of the reporter and thus as she saw the events of the day unfold. It was nice to see a non-involved person reporting on the issue.

Remember gentlemen, without the landowners all of us will be SOL soon. They are the ones who control us all. We may all own the game, but they own the access!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS. Now that Mr. Johnson has admitted this is not a biolgical problem or solution, 2048 should just die and go away.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

You know Econ I bet you know how to buy landowners huh ???
Just like you know how to SPIN things to folks that don't hunt, or really understand who hunts & who really spends money in ND.

I also think the Herald reporter, while maybe a good journalist - also does not Hunt or really understand what the real issues are in all this - & you guys are experts at trying to confuse & use fear as a tool to try to get your way & confuse things :******:

I despise people who think & act like that - But your more interested in yourself & money than Recreation & resources & real economics for the betterment of all - right ??? :eyeroll:

I can only hope most NoDakers are smarter than you think they are


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

> First, it is too bad you did leave early, as you and the group you left with did not show any respect for the other opinion. We stayed for all of yours and everyone else's opinion.


I wasn't driving, and someone had an obligation at home. Don't forget there was an almost 4 hour lag between the morning and afternoon session.



> It was an isightful day for all. And, to the young man who was with you who was supposed to be in school, it is too bad he had to lie to be there and it is also too bad you condoned this behavior. If he had to lie because of his parents or the school it is too bad they did not appreciate his passion. But, it is worse for you to have helped him defy either.


He's 18, has an almost perfect grade point average, flawless record, and can legally die for our country. He wanted to get the chance to tell the committee how much North Dakota means to him. If he has an opinion to make that's his decision.



> As to your slam of Mr. Nelson's son, I am amazed at this after you admonished me for earlier quotes refering to the youth of our state. Neither you or I know wether the young man wrote his own comments and we all should, in your own opinion, be able to express our views in the legislature. That is what makes this great country what it is.


I thanked Eric personally for his testimony. It takes a lot of guts to get in front to publically speak on a hot issue at his age. I personally didn't feel a chairman's son should speak on an issue, but that's water under the bridge now.

If SB 2048 dies, like you say it will... will your establishment, a bar of Devils Lake, be so much more profitable than before? You might get a shorter term increase in sales during certain seasons, but will it be sustainable if only a select few control the "access"? No, they will have their own liquor establishments, and you will rely on those residents and freelancing nonresidents for business that you take a strong position against. Freelancers bring the most money into an area, not outfitters. The big outfitters these days are businessmen, and they can increase their revenue through offering the same establishment you offer in their own lodge.

Nobody in support of SB 2048 is against rural ND, and a lot of those who testified in favor are from rural ND. That's your argument, but if you want to take a look at my credit card bill so be it. 3 weeks last fall were spent in the Devils Lake area alone, and another weekend this winter. I don't pack lunches and sodas, I buy it locally. And there's no wording in SB 2048 that is telling any landowner what to do with his/her land.

p.s. We're you wearing a green shirt???


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## THE Snowman (Mar 5, 2003)

Wow! Lots here!

First let me take this chance to thank Chris for a great site, you are doing us all a great service. This is my first time posting here, and this may get long, but please hear me out.

ND Resident - I see your point, and though I live in Fargo, I would love to live in a small town in North Dakota. At this point in my life it is not feasible for me to leave, but if I ever have the chance I promise you that I will jump on it! However, the things that I read in your posts and that I hear from others in my travels around the state concern me. Right now, times are very good for almost all wildlife and that is a short-term economic benefit for small town North Dakota. I do worry that maybe some towns are placing too much importance on what could be a short-term phenomena, thinking that it will last forever. What will happen when we get a few tough winters and/or drought years? If you are betting your economic future on something that mother nature can bring and take away on a whim, you are on shaky ground indeed. I realize that with the farm economy and the rest of the economy as it is, wildlife may be the only thing that some areas have right now, but this is a band-aid.

Let me say that as a resident (and a proud one at that!) I respect your rights as a landowner. You can post your land or do anything else with it (within the letter of the law of course) that you see fit. If you do not allow me to hunt it, I respect that and harbor no ill will. You have invested in the land and have all of the risk, whereas I am just a visitor.

What I have been wondering throughout this entire debate is this: Where do I as a resident hunter fit in? To hear and read some of the comments from the opposition, my money seems to have less value than that spent by someone from another state, why? Why is the hospitality industry not worried about the dollars that I spend here? Why is it that towns like Devils Lake are worried about losing the hunters from Minnesota, but they don't seem to care that about losing hunters from their own state? As I listen to testimony and read the papers, I can see why some feel they are taken for granted or not wanted at all.

From a business perspective, it would seem to me that these areas that have something to offer and desperately need the dollars in their tills would be better off placing their emphasis on those that can be there year round, rather than just a few days. North Dakota is now the waterfowl "hotspot" in the USA because conditions are prime. When times get tough and birds are scarce, the droves of nonresidents will be move on to the next hotspot, and then who will be left? Since I and many like me are going to be here forever, and since many of us are basically tourists in our own state, wouldn't you rather have a customer that can be there 12 months a year rather than just a week in October?

I would love to see a town or region publicly cater to the resident sportsman. I think they would find that they would make friends and customers for life, not just a few good years. I don't mean that they should keep out nonresidents, just let residents know that they are welcome. (As opposed to the supposed landowners that have threatened to post their land open to nonresidents only.)

I also have a few ideas that I'd like to throw out for debate:

1. If the HPC is not the answer, how about eliminating caps and the "resident only" season entirely and allowing all hunters to hunt Monday-Thursday but Friday-Sunday for residents only. A nonresident license would be good for the full season, no limit on # of days. This would spread out the hunting pressure and insure that motels and restaurants kept a steady stream of clientele.

2. Guides and outfitters should be required to have a license that is an investment, much like other states. This license should be $1000+ annually to insure that only those who are really serious about the business will enter it. Also, they should be bonded and show proof of insurance and be CPR certified.

That is all for now, thanks for the opportunity. If this sounds whiny, that is not my intent. I do not feel at all like a victim in this debate, I am only trying to help everyone look deeper.

By the way, with the weather as it is right now it is hard to believe that planting season is nearly upon us. Farmers and ranchers are stretched too thin this time of year. Now is the time that we sportsman should be knocking on doors and offering to assist in any way we can. A few days of work this spring may pay big dividends next fall.


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Chris,

If the young man is 18 he should have stated so as myself and the committee and most who did not know him think he was skipping school with his answer to Mr. Nelson's question at the end of his testimony. His opinion does count and I did not indicate that it did not.

Your use of pathetic was what got me.

I did not say 2048 will die, I asked if you or anyone else thought it should die now that access is the issue and not the HPC. The effect of this legislation is more about the land owners opportunities than anything else. The very idea that if HPC is passed it will deter out of state individuals from purchasing land ( as stated by Mr. Wells from Whapeton ) should be reason enough for the bill to die. This takes an opportunity away from the owner and thus lessens his chance of getting top dollar for his property. Is this always good for the farmer or small towns, no, but we live in a fee enterprise society and thus must abide by those ideals or we might as well be socialistic ect. While 2048 does not directly say what a land owner can or cannot do, it does put limits on his options. This is wrong in our society and I hope the House sees this. The question to Mr. French says a mouthful about all North Dakotans.

You are right, can't belive we actually agree on something, freelancers do and always will be our bread and butter for all who cater to the hunting industry. We just don't want to be limited from legislation. This piece of legislation could not only send a message to hunters, but to all potential visitors who want to come to our state that we do not want you. No one has said the residents don't support us, we appreciate all who do. We are also major tax payers in the state and appreciate all who frequent our businesses. If mother nature changes things then that is how it should be, not legislation.

I do realize most in favor are not against rural ND, but the way it is going it gets harder to believe so when the caps are in the formula. Thanks for coming to the Lake Region and hope you come again as I do for *ALL *who want to be treated to our unfilled stadium.

One thought I would highly consider is the argument that it is becoming a rich mans sport could be even more true if 2048 passes. If I were a guide, which I am not, I would not let any of my leases go ( might even lease more out of spite ) and up my rates so I can make up for the lost income due to the artificial limit on the licenses my customers can get. Also if I were a landowner I would start to charge for anyone who wanted to take advantage of my land. This way is even scarier than the HPC.

PS no

Fetch,

Cool down, she interpreted what she heard. No one used fear or confused her. She came to her own conclusions through the testimony she heard.


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## Austin Bachmeier (Feb 27, 2002)

Econ101 How did he lie? I know that I sucked when I got up and mumbled, and I was "sick" from school as well, but I was there because I'm sick of seeing the quality of hunting in my state go downhill, and see the future and youth being sold out for a few years of financial gain for a few goofs, most of which don't even put on the waders once in the fall. Anyone who can call themself a true sportsman will tell you, the look on a kids face seeing his first bird fall, and see the wonder in their eyes of being out there seeing all the great things there are to see will tell you, All the thousands of dollars that frosty, and all the others want in their pockets can't even put a pellet in the wings of what that is worth. You can take this straight to the bank "sir".


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Mike Johnsons presentation was professional and convincing to all with an open mind. The committee members needed to view the evidence, as governor Hoeven, lobbyed by the outfitters, prohibited Dean from testifying. Funny how the outfitters can stack what is required to be an impartial process. Interestingly enough Mr Jon Nelson wanted to take Johnsons presentation time from the resident alloted time. Mr Jon Nelsons chairmanship of HNRC was poorly preformed, as questions are only for clairification from members, and are otherwise considered testimony, which is prohibited in the hearing process. The committee chairmans job is not to intentionaly intimidate those testifying, nor to interject his personal views, both of which Mr Nelson did. I have never at any hearing seen a committee chairman deliver a litiny of leading questions to support his personal views as Mr Jon Nelson did constantly through these hearings. That of course is why he was appointed chairman and is roundly championed by outfitters.

The folks who spoke for 2048 represented the interests of the state for a resource held in public trust as a whole, while the opponents represented their own pocket book. The hearing from the outfitter standpoint was not about HPC, but rather about which jackels eat the carcass. When Pat Candrian from Cannonball testified to the validity of the newpaper poll that was prepared by Andrist from Crosby, one could see validity of outfitter arguements.

The stale and transparent arguement foisted by outfitters concerning landowner rights was effectively exposed for a lie. If it is repeated often enough some fool may believe it, yet every sportsman testifying supported farmers property rights competely. A dry bone. No meat there.

Interestingly enough Farm Bureau had the balls to use same threadbare arguements supporting outfitters, when they used the exact opposite arguements to support corporate farming 7 days before. I always thought that if an arguement was valid, it was like a sock that fit well on either foot.


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## frosty (Dec 6, 2002)

Econ 101...you must not have been hearing very well at the afternoon session. The young man from Fargo did indeed tell the committee he is 18 years old, I heard it, I don't know why you didn't. As to Mr. Nelson's question to Mr. French, last time I checked, no sportsmen expects any guarantees, any promises, we would just like a chance to shoot a few ducks on our public land areas without the cities of St. Paul or Madison sitting beside us. And on private land, all we ask is that you give us an chance, an opportunity to tell them who we are, where we are from, what we do for a living, etc, if they do not wish to allow us access, no problem that is their choice. Again, we don't want any guarantees, just a chance at sharing in something that most North Dakota landowners did as well....hunted many different areas by simply getting an opportunity given to them by the landowner. Something that makes ND such a great state...great people. Comparing a hockey puck to publically managed resource is a bit far fetched...but not surprising coming out of his mouth.


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## Curt Wells (Jan 13, 2003)

Econ 101,

I second the notion that your hearing was a bit off at the afternoon session. I did NOT state that HPC would prevent nonresidents from purchasing land. The 14-day restriction already accomplishes that goal. I have written that similar restrictions on out-of-state upland hunters would help with the growing problem of nonresident land ownership, but HPC has nothing to do with that issue.

I grow weary of all the testimony that if we restrict nonresidents it means two things -- one, we don't want any nonresidents, and two, all these outfitters and landowners will go broke. Both concepts are ridiculous and barely worth a comment. No one wants to put up an electrified fence around the state. And reducing the number of nonresidents by a small percentage, or even just reining in the stampede, will not drive anyone out of business. That is, unless they've invested ridiculous amounts of cash on a resource that is extremely unstable. That's a gamble they must come to terms with on their own, much like any businessman who takes a risk.

Also, you keep throwing this idea out that because access is one of the motivating factors behind HPC it is no longer valid. The logic of such an assumption escapes me and holds no logic. What did you think the reason for HPC was? If a resident gets up at 3 a.m. to head for a favorite duck slough, only to find three SUVs with nonresident plates filled with sleeping hunters, you don't think that affects access to that slough? Other freelance nonresidents are also impacted by that over-crowding. If it were allowed, you would hear some nonresidents champion the cause of SB 2048 at these hearings. Some of them understand what is happening. Then again, some of us don't.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I did not say anyone there used blatant fear in their testimony - (I was not there) But everything I've heard from the Pro -guide sides of all this & the pro tourism & pro save the small towns sides - Seems to be all related to what the Pro-Guides want you to believe (& confuse you with) - so you won't pass 2048 - which could start a spiral of events, that could be better for Freelance Hunting.

I'm not so sure that the failure of 2048 might even turn out to be a blessing in disguise - I think you will see a rally of concern & support - like you cannot imagine, if it fails - Where if it passes, I'm afraid most will think it's the answer - It would only be the begining - of showing the commercial sides, who is going to do the right things in the future. - Who do you trust & what do you want to future to be like in ND ???


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Intersting that the tourism dept advertises no crowding on our lakes, but they don't advertise the crowding on our public hunting grounds. Just food for thought.


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

Econ 101,
This is the 18 year old that testified. I clearly stated that I was 18 years old. My parents stand behind me 100% in my decision to head out to Bismarck. At Fargo South if you have no absenses then you are omitted from finals the second semester, but the exception is that you get 2 sick days. I thought that my parents would have just called me in sick, but they called the school counselors to get it excused as a school related function. As to us leaving early, we had to be back in town that night and the weather was getting bad.


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