# vehicle mileage E-85



## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

I have been following the ethanol debate including the engineering standpoint. As an example, according to GM literature, the 2007 Chevy Silverado pickup, the 5.3-liter V-8 is rated 16/20 with 4WD on gasoline and 12/15 on E85 ethanol fuel. The other manufacturer's have similiar drop offs in mileage using e-85. A 25% drop in highway mileage using e85 is not exactly small. Any thoughts about this?


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

I have also heard you can't tow with because of the performance drop-off. It doesn't seem to be that much cheaper than regular so for me it doesn't really pay to use it. Plus I like horsepower.


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

Good Morning everyone,

I try to avoid ethanol blends when possible. I think it is nothing more
then a scam, just with a different twist.

My milage is down so I spend more in buying the stuff. Just does not
have the bang as regular gas.

See you later.


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## irish (Jan 18, 2004)

What it all boils down to is there are less BTU`s in ethanol then gas ,so less power less miles per gallon .No matter what you do there will always be that problem with ethanol so until you buy a truck with an motor that is made to run just ethnaol and not a blend you will always have the problems talked about above . Sorry but the whole corn is going to make the fuel problem go away is just the next BS line droped on the public . It is a band aid till they get fuel cell or hydrogen or some of the others up and going but untill they do dont invest in the etanaol market , it will boom for some time and then watch what happens !

Irish


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## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

If the auto manufacturers designed an engine, that can be mass produced,to operate well on alchohal,there would be no problem with power and efficiency with ethanol.High performance dragsters run on pure alchohol.


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## irish (Jan 18, 2004)

That is what i said but, and its a big one they run on nitro methane and it is a mix that has to be done on the spot and for the conditons ! Also milage is not an issue that is were the problem lies with makeing car engins run on ethanol.
Irish


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Gas engines don't have the compression ratios to burn alcohol right. It's probably not news to most of you guys, but a higher octane number means the fuel is more difficult to ignite. In high compression engines, fuel can ignite during the compression stroke, producing a "knock" and a significant loss of power (that cylinder is effectively fighting against the cylinders in their power stroke). E-85 is 100-105 octane. The compression of an engine designed to run exclusively on e-85 could be much higher, and far more power could be squeezed out of the E-85.


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## wiskodie1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Hi guys
We are in a huge energy crises right now!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anything that can help us is a good thing. As to lower gas mileage and not as much towing power, that's part of life. We are running out of the good stuff fast (oil) and there isn't ANYTHING that will fill its place. I think its time we all get use to the fact that we are going to have to change our lives around this problem.

Please take some time to read about "peak oil" and "Hubbert peak curve"

Do you honestly think auto manufactures and investors would spend billions of dollars to put ethanol on the market if it wasn't needed??????

They tried ethanol back in the 70's when the nation exceeded the gulf of Mexico's ability to meet oil demands and it went bankrupt, reason being we went to OPEC for our needs, and ethanol couldn't compete with cheap OPEC oil.

These days ethanol isn't competing with oil it's substituting for a GLOBAL lack of oil.

Is corn based ethanol going to save us? NO, we need to tap every type of power source we can. Hope you all like nuclear power, there will be a power plant in your neighborhood soon.

The worst part about this is that no ones seems to notice our government telling us about it.

I promise you all that this is going to change your lives, and like a blizzard, there isn't anything you can do about it, all you can do is be prepared for it and except the changes it will cause in your lives. The next 20 years is going to be very interesting. And 40 to 50 years from now you and your children's lives and happiness will be a direct result of what we do in the next 10 years.


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## Kiskadinna (Jan 2, 2007)

Greetings,
I have owned a Ranger that take E85 for three years now. I would agree that the MPG is about 15-25% less when running E85 as opposed to regular unleaded. I'm all for using our resources responsibly, but it also has to be in a way that is cost effective. That being said, when I lived in MN, there was typically a 20 to 30 cent difference (savings wise) in filling up with E85 and as a reult, somewhat of a wash in terms of MPS to cost. 
Now that I am living in NE, the industry seems to be a little diifferent because they typically run a mid grade gas at E10 a little cheaper, but the E85 is at least 10 cents more expensive than regular unleaded or the mid grade. If the situation is right, I'd definitely use E85. But i guess my answer would be not in every state.
-Erik


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

In motors designed to run both gas and ethanol, mileage per gallon drops by at least 25% as well as performance in towing etc...

While the idea of lower the consumption of oil and using a product that can be reproduced is a great idea, the failing has been in the product that has been chosen for use. One only needs to look to Europe and follow its progression and then to Canada and I do believe now 4 South American countries. Only those that have switched to a biomass product like sugar cane or grasses like switch grass or the residue from small grains have been able to produce efficiently ethanol with any significant net gains in energy vs growing and production.

Recently the U of Minn released a study claiming that corn made ethanol had a 25% increase of energy vs a no net gain. Since BTU output is the measurement that is the standard, the only way they could arrive at this increase is to say that farming practices efficiency and increased yields from new varieties are the cause of the change. But in looking at the report, they also lowered the energy count for transportation, reduced the energy count for production of fertilizer and reduced the amount of fertilizer applied to the ground to raise the corn.

So all in all nothing has changed in the world of corn based ethanol from the past 5-7 years. It still remains at best a no net gain fuel vs gasoline from oil

What is needed and I hope the plant in Canada proves this out on a large scale is for us to shift away from corn based ethanol and move towards biomass ethanol production. You will not hear this from our elected delegation in Washington, but at least Collin Peterson from MN recognizes this and is pushing for this right now.

Ethanol has a place and future but not from grain based products. The future lies with biomass, which is better for the air,water and wildlife.


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## irish (Jan 18, 2004)

You all have brought up great reasons why but the big reason that the push is on for E85 is that there already is a distribution infrastucture for that type of fuel .So the party line with all the power (big oil )they own all the gas pumps says that E85 or ethanol will save the day as said above its not dont be fooled by all the propaganda that is being pushed on us even biomass wont save us we have to replace the fuel with something new not substitute a very poor answer to it .And until they fix the problem i will do my part to burn all the gas i can go on more hunting trips .

Irish


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Irish the distribution issue is one of the reasons that ethanol is almost $1.00 a gallon more out east than here in the Midwest. It cannot be sent through pipelines line gas can be. It has to be shipped over the road or rail. That is why biomass has so much more practical application vs corn,because biomass products or residue from existing crops can be used instead of shipping corn to Maine from Iowa or SD for that matter.

I am not a supporter of corn based ethanol, but I can see the merit in using biomass produced ethanol and we could within a few years actually reach a point of 20% ethanol replacement use with biomass. We cannot achieve a 20% replacement of use with grain and not have a high impact upon the environment over and above anything we would do by drilling and using oil!


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## wiskodie1 (Sep 11, 2006)

As the price of crude oil increases over the coming years, other resources that are currently not cost effective will become more viable. So don't worry about trying to save our oil, if you don't enjoy it now someone else will, i.e. China, India. At the same time be aware that change is coming, and be ready to change with it. our largest concern should be making sure the infrastructure is in place ahead of time, to help make those changes as easy on us and our economy as possible.

Read about "peak oil" and keep an open mind on the subject when you do, just like everything else on the web, there is a lot of spin on the topic to both sides, but the facts about it are the same.


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## irish (Jan 18, 2004)

So far that is the one thing i agree with . 
 Irish


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

Well, I dont know about all of you, but here is my experiance.

Right now gas in Britton SD cost 2.23 for regular e-10 unleaded, 2.14 for e-30% ethanol blend, and 1.65 for E-85. With my Town and Country, we average 18.7 with E-10, guess I have never checked straight gas with this car. I just actually realized this was e85 compatible, so I am only on my second tank, but the mileage meter right now says 15.8 mpg. So to drive a hundred miles on e10 it costs me $12.05 or with e85 it costs $10.44. Dont ask me why it is so cheap in NESD, but that is the deal. So that is about 10% cheaper to run. I will go for that.

My metro I drive to work gets 31 with straight gas or 31 with e-30. makes absolutely no difference and have not had any probelms. Been running the e30 since August with no problems at all.

Not saying anything else, but it works for me just fine.

Tom

Man do I wish it were made with Biomass....

:beer:


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## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

I think using alchohol as an alternative fuel source is a good idea no matter where it comes from.I believe that designing an engine to run on a specific blend,or pure alchohol,will or should be part of the near future.Face it,the piston engine is 100 year old technology.I am amazed that revolutionary engine designs,other than the rotary engine,have not been put into mass production in automobiles.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

You guys are too smart for me to get involved in the energy discussion, but as far as Indsport's original question about actual gas mileage, I can say this.

We have corn out the ying-yang here in IL. Actually make the alcohol for E-85 about 10 miles from my house. So we have access to various blends, with 10% probably being most popular, and the cheapest. My 4X4 '05 Silverado gets mileage in the upper 16 to low 17 range with 92 octane 10% ethanol, but only in the low to mid 13 range with E-85. Those numbers being based on summer time conditions as they are slightly lower in the winter. It averages about right at 3.5 mpg LESS with the E-85, and I check it every tank.

And that's computing it the old fashioned way, not going by the what the computer says, as it is ALWAYS optimistic by at least 1mpg. Not that it matters, but I won't buy E-85 unless it's more than .30 per gallon less than 10%, and it hasn't been that much cheaper around here for quite some time.

On a side note, when asked about the mileage difference, my dealer said "yeah, that's about right", but was told 1 to 2 mpg difference at deal time.

I still can't believe I was misled like that!


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Hey guys,

How long did it take for the price of gas to skyrocket at even a hint of higher oil prices? How long did it take for the price of gas to increase after the Katrina scare?

How much has the price of oil dropped in the last 2 months? How much has the price of gas dropped in that same time period? Who is getting ripped off here?


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

http://www.in-forum.com/Opinion/articles/158363

From the Fargo paper on Sunday.

Here is part of it

"Two publications, Consumer Reports and CARandDRIVER in recent road tests or on an oval track, in 2006 trials found that E85 (gasoline mixed with 85 percent alcohol) has approximately 30 percent less mileage as compared to 87 octane gasoline. At prices of gasoline and E85 in August, 2006, the fuel costs to travel 400 miles (road) with E85 ($3.99) would have exceeded gasoline ($2.49), or a Tahoe Chevrolet went 400 miles on a tankful of gasoline versus the Tahoe going only 290 miles on a tankful of E85.

The author of the story in CARandDRIVER quoted that the Environmental Protection Agency has reported 28 percent reduction in mileage for E85 as compared to gasoline. E85 provided only 0.67 the mileage of gasoline. "


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