# KB "ducks blocked out the sun"



## dosch (May 20, 2003)

http://www.ndchamber.com/images/links/JuneBusReport.pdf


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

dosch,
Thanks! Now I start to see why some of our bills failed.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

anytime. I have a google addiction.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Here we go again.
KB is not the reason that some of the proposed legislation failed. A lot of the proposed outdoor legislation this year failed because, plain and simple, it was bad legislation that would not have done anything for the outdoorsmen of this great nation of ours.
It all goes back to the fact that if you "slbck's" want to get on land do some work outside of the hunting season and you shall be rewarded.
Remember, when you point a finger you have three pointing right back at yourself. 
Who is to blame, well, maybe many of you "big city kids" should take a gut check and look at your own behavior both in the field and on web pages like this to get some answers.

cootkiller


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Coot

It was the only for sure way to see if you were lurking.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

I think it was Tony Dean that said something like "when you throw a rock at a bunch of pigs, the one squeeling is the one you hit". 8)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Cootkiller

Try look into the future ten years, maybe a little further. That farm of your parents may not be in the family name when your grandchildren want to hunt. No doubt the cove will be history, and the outfitter you work for will be enjoying the sun at his nursing home in Arizona. If any of your descendants are into hunting they may not have kind words over your grave on memorial day. They may say "this is the black sheep of the family who lost the farm before he bought the farm, and shafted us on hunting".

Hegg, do you hear squealing from the north west? Modern day market hunters are that way also.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Coots, if you are so dead set against HPC, why do you practice it on your place? Little red faced there? The market hunters are adament for no restrictions on hunter numbers.........and are the most restrictive themselves. Big surprise. Say one thing for the state and do a 180 at home. $$$$$$$$$$$

Remember last fall when I invited you pheasant hunting? The place is leased now. :eyeroll:


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

This is not even worth going into as every fact gets turned around and spun so that it works for some of your own special interest.

cootkiller


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Sorry to inform you that the Delta Youth Hunt wasn't cancelled due to TD wanting to film the hunt.....yes it was a factor but the Youth hunt was moved to another location due to logistics more than anything else. KB was very gracious in offering the resort at no charge to our Delta Group and I appreciated the offer but due to the fact that most of the Chapter and many of the mentors are from Fargo the logistics more than anything dictated where the event needed to be held....at least for this year.

Please refrain from mentioning the Delta Youth hunt in your posts...you have never been involved in the decision making process and you really don't know what you are talking about concerning the issue.

On the other hand if you DO want to become involved in something that will benefit the KIDs of ND and other states, I would welcome your participation in the future. We will need mentors for the morning hunt and You might want to consider that. We are also accepting any donations to be used for the Kids hunt.

Here's what is planned so far. The 4 Curls Chapter of Delta Waterfowl...located in eastern ND and western MN will hold a Youth waterfowl hunt on Sept 16th and 17th, 2005. The activity will consist of a 2 hr introduction to the hunt to be held at the Shooting Park in Horace ND on the 16th. This night will include presentation of supplies, meeting mentors, duck identification, practice on calls, and practice on sitting up and shooting from blinds. The 17th will see all mentors and youth and guardians meet at the shooting park at 4:30 am and take off to pre-determined hunting sites in eastern ND. So far....we have 25 Echo duck calls, 25 Zink goose calls and 3 cases of 12 gauge 3" - 3 shot donated. (Thank you to Sportsman's warehouse!) Hope to get many more items to give to the kids.) Our group wants as many kids to experience this hunt and will provide any and all materials to the kids to use that morning.
The Shooting Park in Horace will be the meeting place for a noon BBQ and place to clean the birds, take pictures, and recap the event.

Anyone that is interested please PM me or Mallard, or Chris P or djleye or jhegg. Spots are still available.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

First, let me say that the article on the Devils lake Region was nothing that we do not already know. Outdoor recreation is big business and people are going to cash in. Do I like the fact that Kyle leases up a bunch of land that is then not open to public hunting? No. It is a business decision he has made and it is unpopular on this site because we are for the most part freelance hunters. Are there still freelance opportunities in the DL region? Yes. Do some feel cheated out of a hunting opportunity because of outfitters in the area? Probably! This is going to surprise a bunch of people on this site coming from me; Guides and Outfitters are in North Dakota to stay! Deal with it!!

Many sat and watched it happen and did nothing to control the trend toward O/G proliferation, we have no one to blame but ourselves for not speaking up and making a difference when legislation was proposed.

The article points out that the North Dakota Tourism Department spends little money compared to other states. I wonder how much they kick into the legislature fighting against resident hunter interests? North Dakotas hunting is know world wide, because of its vitality of resources, and because of internet sites like this one. The Tourism Department is just part of the influx. Why does the Tourism Department spend money advertising and promoting hunting with outfitters and then give nothing to the state to help improve wildlife habitat for everyone's benefit?

North Dakotas wildlife is for sale, everyone knows that. The question is what can be done about it, If anything? I would like to see O/G's limited to land they own. Will that stop the land from being tied up? I would also like to see a cap on O/G's in the state. I think the O/G's would agree, probably not in public. I would also like to see the fee for O/G's go up significantly, they know they are selling wildlife, kick some money back to the State for harvesting that quantity of wildlife. I would also like to see a requirement in the rules for outfitting that Habitat Improvements are mandatory on land they own or lease.

Guides, Outfitters and Sportsmen can keep fighting and calling each other names until the end of time. Is it going to resolve any of the issues? I have said it before and I will say it again, COMMON GROUND NEEDS TO BE FOUND! I know Kyle monitors this site, Hi Kyle! Any Ideas on where we can meet in the middle? Or do you really want it all?

Later
Bob


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## KB (Dec 1, 2002)

Bob check your PM's

Kyle


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

> I know Kyle monitors this site, Hi Kyle!


Wow, that didn't take long. :lol: Feel free to chime in time to time.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

CootKiller,
Now that everyone has vented, I was refering to organization and support rather than trying to take a potshot at any particular person. Having said that, you sure felt the sting of something!
Jim

Plainsman,
I guess you were right.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

I just wanted to see if coot was in the house! Wasn't trying to slam Kyle just some friendly fire with coot. 8) Didn't realize I would make everyone all pizzed off.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Coot, why did you go edit your last post? I wanted to quote the part where you say I am not an outdoorsman. I enjoy your little tirades. I know I get on your case, but it isn't personal like you think. Let me make it perfectly clear, I enjoy talking with Kyle, and you. I think you are genuinely nice guys. It is just unfortunate that you got into a parasitic business. I believe that when land is leased for hunting then that business is a leech directly on the jugular of a public resource. I can almost hear the sucking sound.

You point to the kids getting free access. There is no way for me to know if that was from the generosity of the heart, or a business decision. After all if your ten years old the drug dealer on the corner will give you a free taste of smack too I would guess. I would venture to guess his decision was a little of both. Personally I like Kyle, I just don't like the way outfitters do business.

You think we are all selfish coot, but the truth is I have access to more land than I can hunt. I would have to hunt every week- end to get to each quarter of land once every two or three years. It's just the opposite, I am concerned about the future of hunting itself. If it becomes economically unfeasible for some they will drop it. Low hunter numbers will result in less political clout, and the animal rights activists are waiting in the wings. Also, some people can not get it through their head that the end product will be a reduction in the local economic impact. Nonresidents don't have magic dollars. They are worth no more than yours or mine. Which would have more impact on the local economy 1000 freelance hunters looking for motels, restaurants etc., or 50 pay to hunt people who get food and lodging from the outfitter?


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Field Hunter said:


> . The 4 Curls Chapter of Delta Waterfowl...


Now theres a name that has a ring to it!! A dignified name for a distinguished chapter of Delta Waterfowl. 

Sorry for wallowing in my own glory. 

Come'on Cooter, don't go away mad or upset, theres plenty of room here for all. dd: And KB, we all now secrets are lies so please do chime in outloud. :wink:


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

No Secrets between KB and me. Just a friendly conversation to discuss some issues. I did not receive a PM from Kyle? so I called him.

I do wish KB, Coot and other O/G's that monitor this site would chime in and discuss issues. They may not change any minds here and we probably will not change any minds there but discussion is never a bad thing unless all it amounts to is attacks, and we all know how that can get out of hand.

Plainsman
I am pretty sure you know where I stand but in looking at all the angles of issues O/G's do profit from a public resource. That being said they are also part of the "public" that the resource belongs to as tax payers of ND.

The laws of ND as written today also make it legal for them to do what they do within the bounds of said laws. unpopular here? Yes. I have my reasons why it is unpopular with me and it is no secret, I post them all the time.
1. Leasing takes land out of the public domain for hunting
2. Outfitters profit from a publicly owned resource
3. Outfitting does little if anything to benefit "small town" ND (Mott?)
4. Outfitting started the trend toward pay hunting in ND
5. Some outfitters are dis-honest (sheldon) and a few others.
6. I know of some cases where outfitters tell clients to hunt public land. (Fact!)

I would like to pose this question to all who read this if you care enough to respond.

Why is hunting outfitting so unpopular with you?

Bob


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Bob,
My beef with outfitters is one thing and one thing only. They, in most cases completely, remove land they do not own from access to other hunters. Simple enough!
Jim


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Ditto!!!!


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Bob Kellam said:


> 1. Leasing takes land out of the public domain for hunting
> 2. Outfitters profit from a publicly owned resource
> 3. Outfitting does little if anything to benefit "small town" ND (Mott?)
> 4. Outfitting started the trend toward pay hunting in ND
> ...


What else can we say. You summed it up Bob.



Bob Kellam said:


> ! This is going to surprise a bunch of people on this site coming from me; Guides and Outfitters are in North Dakota to stay! Deal with it!!
> 
> Many sat and watched it happen and did nothing to control the trend toward O/G proliferation, we have no one to blame but ourselves for not speaking up and making a difference when legislation was proposed.
> Bob


Many? How about most, not including the folks here that did 95% of what was done. In vain I might add.

There is no way a handfull of hunters are going to stop this freight train that we know as COMMERCIALIZATION!! Being a poor economy state with many citizens ei. res hunters, that have no resource or will to do what is necessary on this issue we will become another Arkansas, Illinois or Texas.

We are dealing with it, one crappy hand after another. The house never loses when it has a stacked deck.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Hi Kyle....met you for the first time last month when I had lunch at Woodlands with Fetch.You seem like a nice guy....There has to be some common ground to live side by side.We welcome your input.


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## cbass (Sep 9, 2003)

I have quite a few KB/Landowner storries that i could tell and would love too if he was even worth talking about. uke: 
It seems that the crap pot of land that he leases is never enough.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

*Here are some ideas, comments and suggestions on what can be done to find "Common Ground"*

*Soft Outfitting. (Rent an old house and send clients to public land)*

Many community representatives where soft outfitting is prevalent have come to this site and complained that they are not seeing hunter numbers and complaining that restrictions to Nonresident hunters are the bane of their existence. Why are they not regulated? Hunting only on land owned? Same regulations as Licensed Outfitters? Soft outfitting has driven many resident hunters from areas because of low wildlife numbers on public land due to hunting pressure, leasing land and a just down right unfriendly attitude toward resident hunters.
Solutions?

*Licensed Outfitters and hunting public land.*

It is by law against the law to guide and outfit hunters on public accessible land. It still happens. What is the solution? O/G's association police themselves with the power to revoke O/G license on the spot if violations occur? The North Dakota Professional Guides and Outfitters Association has a website and organizational structure. What do they do to police themselves? They have bylaws and collect dues. I am sure most dues go toward legislative lobby efforts.

Quote from NDGPOA Bylaws:
_"To foster, expand and perpetuate hunting and fishing of all legal species of game animals (mammals, birds and fish). To cooperate with other hunting, fishing and outdoor groups in securing, maintaining, and promoting better hunting and fishing conditions. To cooperate with conservation agencies and observe game and fish laws regarding the conservation of all legal species of game animals."_

Sounds Good! How many have witnessed all of this and where has it occurred? The NDGPOA needs to take it upon themselves to clean up and regulate their industry, not throw all the responsibility back on the state. All organizations carry a civic responsiblity.

*Licensed Outfitters Selling Publicly owned wildlife
Pay to hunt.*

Currently there are no regulations for landowners that charge to harvest wildlife on their property. Why are they not regulated by the NDGF we all know it is wildlife not access they are charging for? Everyone guiding and outfitting should be required to be licensed.

I am not saying they should not receive some compensation if it is their land.

We all know this is happening the question why it upsets me is always a little confusing. They sell wildlife through a process of guiding the "legally Licensed" hunter to the spot where the harvest is to take place. The license they obtain from NDGF must give them the ability to do this.

We buy a license and do the same thing only we bring along friends who are also "legally Licensed". They (guides) receive a fee for their work. They harvest much wildlife over the seasons we get our bag limit as well. It is a quantity-harvested issue. When you take so much and give in some cases, nothing back it smacks of greed. The cumulative license fees by resident hunters allows the NDGF to implement programs, I would guess we kick in a whole bunch more money than the outfitters do. Many outfitters are up and up when it comes to paying taxes, I am sure there are many licensed or unlicensed that take the cash and do not claim it. The license fee they pay is a pittance, it should be based on volume. From my perspective, the other thing that I have a hard time with is the ethical issue involved.

Hunting to me is fair chase, family, camaraderie, and a passion for the outdoors. Many outfitters that charge "big Bucks" for big game, waterfowl, upland, or any other hunts that are guided, baited or manipulated do not sit well with me and my view of ethics and fair chase hunting.

I know this is going to be unpopular with O/G's and freelancers who chose to bait, but I feel that hunting as well as guiding and outfitting should be based on "Fair Chase" without exception. If you are a licensed O/G you should know where the wildlife is to assure your clients a successful hunt, isn't it part of your job?. Baiting is a lazy way to kill something. It is legal, I would like it to be Illegal!

*Licensed Outfitters leasing land (Habitat)*

I think this is the single issue that has left a bad taste in my mouth for Outfitters. The commercialization trend started in earnest when leasing of habitat proved to be profitable. Many others jumped on the bandwagon and pay to hunt was in vogue in North Dakota. It has been a very disappointing trend to watch as friends have gone from welcoming freelance hunters to charging $100.00 per gun per day because they can and people will pay it. (I know a couple of you western ND boys monitor here. You know me and it is nothing personal) Here is my quandary as a freelance hunter. I love to hunt. I hunt a lot. 50 days afield last season. If I paid for hunting 50 x $100.00 per day is $5000.00 minimum. Now add other expenses, ammo, food, gas, lodging and other misc. items and you can come close to doubling that amount. I can not afford this even working two jobs + in the summer.
I have two passions in life, family and the outdoors. I golf on occasion only to laugh at myself, it is good therapy. I make the choice to spend my time outdoors with close friends and family, why should I be restricted to certain "not so prime habitat" areas of the state where free access is granted because I can not afford the cost in the "prime habitat" areas. If the current trend continues I will be forced to cut back on my outdoor adventures and that is not something I am going to do without saying my piece, ND's Constitution assures me that "hunting&#8230;.. shall be forever preserved".

So yes I blame outfitters for the pay-to-hunt trend because they started to lease habitat and showed many others how to profit from North Dakotas wildlife. Wildlife by definition Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
: living things and especially mammals, birds, and fishes that are neither human nor domesticated. Wild, free roaming.

What is the solution to this? If outfitters are restricted to land they own they will still find legally accepted ways around the issue, my guess would be that the number of outfitters in ND would rise dramatically. Capping the number of acres leased? Capping the number of outfitters? Having a grading system for Outfitters 5 star, 4 star etc. and requirements to achieve the rating? Creating more plots land in prime areas? Improvements to land and habitat to make it more profitable, reducing the need to lease more land. Sharing access unguided with a different fee schedule for residents? Quotas to allow for free youth hunting with outfitters. A sportsman's tax to fund more public hunting access. No land leasing after a specified date?

*HPC Hunter Pressure Concept.*

Outfitters are against this concept because it has the possibility of caps on Nonresident hunters, yet most outfitters weather knowingly or not practice a form of HPC on their land already. They limit the number of hunters they allow to hunt.

I feel HPC should be a wildlife standard for all species in ND. We already do it for big game how hard would it be to extend it to wingshooting?

I see no real downside to managing wildlife using real biological data and common sense. Many of you may say why should Nonresidents be restricted and not residents. My only answer is that we live here 24/7, 365, the wildlife is owned by the state we live in (us) and we outspend you by a wide margin.

I agree waterfowl is a federal issue, but the federal government lets the states manage waterfowl as long as their practices are not more liberal than theirs. The issue is QUALITY HUNTING.

The concept in its simplest form would balance NR hunters and wildlife with the available wildlife in a given area, thus reducing the pressure on the wildlife and in theory keeping the wildlife in the area longer and improving the quality of the hunt.

Ask yourself would you like to hunt in an area where you are going to have a quality hunt or a hit and miss hunt Minnesota Guys I think you can answer this one. How do we determine the status quo?
The only way to determine a base is to know how many NR hunters hunt with outfitters? We all know that duck numbers are down for certain species, if you don't know this you need to get you head out of the sand. Why? Habitat? Hunting success? Predation? Poaching? Disease? Unethical bag limits? Current state Laws? Federal Regulations (liberal seasons) Better equipment? More outfitters up and down the flyways?

A secondary benefit to HPC would be conservation, we raise a ton of ducks in ND we also have no limits on hunters and we allow them to shoot their limit every day for 14 days and eat it. A party of 4 in a liberal season could harvest and eat 336 ducks in 14 days (4x6x14=336) that is a bunch of duck to eat! Or waste or whatever. I doubt that it happens very often, but there is nothing to prevent it. HPC would limit the number of hunters in an area that could not take that kind of pressure, and probably increase the number of hunters in areas that could take that kind of pressure. Balance? I do not know of any outfitters that are not in or around prime to excellent habitat areas for the species they outfit for. So it seems to me that they object to HPC because it limits NR hunters. HPC may limit NR hunters when the need is there because of a reduction in wildlife numbers due to poor conditions and reproductive success. What is wrong with that? Or should we just harvest them all and not worry about tomorrow? HPC could also raise the number of NR hunters if the conditions and habitat are there to support the wildlife to justify an increase.

HPC is a win-win situation, yes there will be a learning curve, but the quality and quantity of hunting in the future will require some measure of regulation.

*Decline of small towns due to outfitting*
Small towns are often affected by outfitting by the outfitter expanding into housing, food and liquor sales. Now add on top of that the unwillingness of Resident hunters to travel to an area where pay hunting is prevalent and land leasing is rampant and you have tough conditions for some small town businesses.

Solutions?

I am not taking shots at the outfitters, whining or complaining about my abilities to hunt right now, I have made connections. The younger generation may not be able to do the same if commercialization continues at the present rate. I also bring little to the table to bargain with in these issues. Outfitters currently have the legislatures ear and combined with tourism and small town lobby. We are out-numbered and out-financed. I would just like to see everyone do what is best for all of North Dakota so she can keep at least some of her character, and preserve some of her traditions and heritage for us "average Joe" sportsmen.

*Can there be common ground?*

I welcome any and all comments Ideas and suggestions. I threw it on the table, lets talk about it. If I am off base call me on it.

Later
Bob


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## KB (Dec 1, 2002)

Statements from folks like Cbass are exactly why I keep my nose out of chat sites like this. I must reply and set the record straight. I have been a waterfowl outfitter in the Devils Lake region for 18 years. In my business I'm the old guy (even if I'm not even 40 yet!). During these 18 years we have worked hard developing relationships with landowners, some for $ some for free. The fact is being an old farm boy and having family, including my brother, farming and having guides that work for me that are farm boys with farm connections give us a distinct advantage over out-of-area hunters. We do lease land. Truth is we lease less land now than ever in our 18 year history. We do allow hunting on our leased land to others free of charge. Do we grant permission to every one that calls every day: no. We do our best for those that call. We are not perfect but we do our best.

Our company runs a lawful operation without ever having been ticketed for any offence in our 18 years of guiding. I'm not one bit ashamed of what we do. I have been blessed with meeting some of the finest people in the world. Many have become close friends. I can't begin to explain to many of you the feeling of showing people our wonderful state and hunting opportunities. Guiding is much more challenging and less glamorous that many here would think. I look forward to many more years in the field.

Kyle


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Mr. Blanchfield,
Please take comments from cbass and others for what they are worth. They are frustrated with the large amount of outfitting and just want to see things go backwards, they never will. There are others on this site that spew some rheteric the other way as well and we've come to realize they will never change their ways either. (cootkiller - I belive he may work for you).

As Bob said....I welcome your point of view on thses sites....Gets a little old with the chior Director preaching to the Choir all the time. I've already learned from your post.....if I ask in the future you may let us hunt....ok thanks.

How do we come to a happy medium? Even thought as you state you lease less land now than in the past there are so many others springing up that it enevitably is going to hurt everyone, small towns, frelance NRs and residents in the future.

I would go a step further, (Mr. Dean are you ever lurking?) and ask that others come to the site with other points of view. There are many of us that are not going to agree with everything you say but when you're in the public eye I think you should be thick skinned enought to take some things and let others go.

The rest of you guys....I would hope that we all can get past this petty name calling and other BS that's gone on in the past. Let's have some good conversations with the "other side" and leave our bashing for and move towards something a little more constructive. My Dad always said "if you can't say something nice (constructive) then don't say anything."


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> "if you can't say something nice (constructive) then don't say anything."


 That will get you the snotty end of the stick every time. I normally hear very weak minded mothers say this. It will get their kids all walked on for the rest of their lives.

Kyle,

When talking with you I thought you were a very decent person. I don't want to hurt existing guides, but I would like to cap the number right now. This should be in your benefit. It would certainly be a benefit for free lance hunters, young hunters, and small towns.

When hunting begins to be restricted by cost, the poor will drop out first. Hunting should not be based on income, it should be available to all. With reduced numbers we loose political muscle, at the same time animal rights activists are gaining with a society that is removed more and more each day from the real world of the outdoors.

Kyle, if you were a millionaire I would be happy for you and begrudge you nothing. I can understand the enjoyment you get showing people around. I have done it for free, and it is the next best thing to hunting itself. My problem is I wish the best for all concerned. Leased land looks beneficial in the short run, for a small number of people. Overall for small communities it will eventual be very detrimental. My son moved to Montana for public hunting land. He has been gone two years now. Now I hunt Montana more than North Dakota. As a matter of fact for the past two years I spend much more in Montana than here in North Dakota. One reason, I have thousands of acres to hunt for free. The first year my son shot a deer, and a 6X6 elk. The next year he shot a deer and a 5X6 elk that made the 6X6 look like a peanut.

Leasing is good for a handful of people, but overall detrimental. It will bring in money today, but at a much higher cost tomorrow. We try teach our children to be fiscally responsible. We have to follow our own advise and look down the road ten years, not just at tomorrow.

Kyle, good luck, and best wishes.

PS. Kyle, help put a cap on outfitters and guides, regulate non residents based on wildlife populations, reduce lease hunting, and I will stand shoulder to shoulder with you.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Kyle

I am sorry if my post sounded like I was chastising you it was not intended to belittle anyone and I apologize if you took it as a personal attack. All I would like is to start a dialog and get different points of view and sort it all out to see if there is any way to stop the constant bashing that goes on here from time to time. North Dakota is a big state with wonderful resources for hunters, how can we make it better and leave it better than we found it. I am not set in my ways, I am also always willing to learn and discuss issues with anyone in a civil manner. My point of view is derived from personal experience, my point of view could very well be flawed but it is how I feel about the topics, as I understand them today. I hope you join in the conversation. Wars always end most often because a compromise was reached and the end result is often Prosperous. Like I often say to Newbie's on this site; teach us some stuff learn some stuff from us and enjoy your stay!!

Later
Bob


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## cbass (Sep 9, 2003)

FH,
You have not seen the things that i have seen. If it makes you comfortable knowing nothing about nothing than so be it.

If everyone wants to praise mr. blanchfield than so be it.

You make me laugh field hunter.

Sorry my posts don't satisfy you.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

North Dakota is rapidly becoming the small game version of Texas, *the noose of commercial hunting interests is quickly tightening on the necks of all freelance hunters.* Commercial hunting eliminated freelance hunting in Texas and is diminishing it greatly in many other states. IF you don't have a lot of public land in your state, and North Dakota doesn't if you consider all the freelance hunters squeezed on to it, You are screwed, *freelance hunting in North Dakota is almost over*. Plainsmans son got it right, if you want to hunt in the near future, you must move to a state with a lot of public land...or take up golf. :eyeroll:

I love how some want to cozy up with the culprits, ask your self this simple question, is more access available in North Dakota?? Heck no!!What has changed?? answer... commercialization.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

cbass
You seem to have the inside track on hot information, fill us in, and let us hear how you propose to change it if it upsets you so much.

Bobm 
Nice speech. What is your solution, or are you just going to stay on the fringe and take potshots from Georgia?

If you have something to say, say it!

Bob


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Plainsman's son has the right idea but I sure would not leave. Ill be finishing with a degree in Construction managment at the end of this year. I could find a job in any other state pretty easily. Im I considering moving out of state? The answer is no. But from the last 10years of hunting from the NE to the SW corner of this great state is I hate to see the leased land. And it will only get worse like what all of you have said. But will I ever pay to hunt in North Dakota no, nor could I afford to buy/ lease land. If I have to quite hunting here I will, hunting in Sask for 3 weeks or going out west to hunt mule deer would fill that void. Hunting is what I live for ( my close friends and hunt partners know this) and hunting is what I eat, sleep ,breath and $hit. Just think about these question, what is better then sitting atop a butte in western ND looking through your spotting scope for that muley you have been chasing for the last 2 days? OR walking a section of CRP for pheasants or whitetails?And last but not least, what is better then sitting in your field blind after the first snow of the year in a corn field that was packed with snows, honkers and mallards the afternoon before? You might say to yourself yes you can do these exact things in other states but if you were born and raised in ND you know what Im talking about.

And trust me guys 
The captain will be going with his ship if it ever does come to the point here in ND.

This might be alittle off topic but I just had to say somehing.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> Bobm
> Nice speech. What is your solution, or are you just going to stay on the fringe and take potshots from Georgia?
> 
> If you have something to say, say it!


Thanks. There is no solution, yes I'm going to stay on the fringe I've given up hope, and no "potshot" was intended I was just stateing the obvious ( or what should be to all of us) and that the solution is to move to where the commercial interests can't tie up all the land. They will and soon, unfortunately.

Bob its kind of funny though... thats the first time ever anyone acused me of not saying what I had to say. I do understand your frustration in fact I share it, but commercial interests won everywhere else and they will win in ND, freelance hunting in on its last legs in ND.
As an nonresident interested observer, I've been told to butt out enough times that I have (for the most part :wink: ) so I guess I'll stay on the fringe its better for my blood pressure :eyeroll: .


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Thanks for the Post GB3

I think you and I know each other pretty well and I have been experiencing the things you detailed so nicely for about 30 more years than you have. I need to try to find a way to preserve some of that for your kids and my grand kids. There is absolutly nothing in the world like that broadside shot after a week long stalk, or having waterfow comit and land in your decoys. If nobody gave a damn this site wouldn't exist.

Great post Ty!!!

Later 
Bob


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Bobm, Others

Doesn't matter where in the world it is if there is hunting there will be outfitters.

I am going to clarify some of my posts above.

Here is my Idea.
have a grading system for *ALL* outfitter/guide operations 5 star, 4 star etc. along with the grade there would be requirements to attain the grade. Kyle I am going to use you as an example: Woodland Resort, Full service, open year round, multiple species including fish, *local* guides, 18 years in business, no violations of any wildlife laws, land is owned in the family and land is leased. Say this level of service rated a 5 star. He would be able to lease land so as to maintain his business in good financial condition with a maximum amount to be determined. Divide North Dakota into regions and have a maximum number of each grade range allowed per region based on available resources, this would be good for O/G's that are established and keep some of the fly-by-night operations in check. Now add in a regional HPC model and base the license quota on available resources and rated O/G services. As I have asid in the past O/G's should be held to a higher standard they are Ambassadors to ND.

Now kick in a "sportsmans tax" again making it responsible for public access and sustainable habitat improvements upon the land with regional quotas. by paying some of the landowners a little more for PLOTS, it could take some of the pay to hunt landowners out of the picture because it would be less of a hassel.

We often say on this site that O/G's should be eliminated, if they were will freelance hunters carry the load and make enough taxable purchases to make up for the loss to State and Communities? Think about it, it would require more freelance hunters Resident and Nonresident alike. Is that what we want?

I want the existing O/G operations to not have to be so desperate that they end up like you-know-who in federal court it gives their organization and ND a black eye. I also want to be able to have more public land in some of the prime hunting regions in the state.

I am sure my Ideas are not popullar with some but at least I am throwing something out. I bring littlle to bargain with except ideas.

Later
Bob


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

I still find it quite interesting how all of this turmoil seems to revolve around the misconceptions regarding who has a right to do what.

Farming is less of a lifestyle and more of an out and out business these days. That being said, where was the concern when the small farms (and, as a by product, the open door policy of hunting) were going down the toilet?

It is no coincidence that todays ND farmer who has more on his mind than recreation when looking at the potential return on his land investment might be open to leasing his land.

I have seen it stated here that G/Os are making money off of a public owned resource. Well, the birds may belong to the public (including NR Federal tax paying, Federal Duck Stamp buying public) but the land sure doesnt.
Besides, if you want to make up a list of business's that make money off of public owned resources, directly and indirectly, you had better bring several sheets of paper. Many of you may have some indirect income from public owned resources or contribute to someone who does. Ever stayed at a Minnesota resort? Paid somebody to fly you in to fish in Canada? Last time I flew in to Canada, the service owner owned the only piece of property on a lake with 2000 miles of shoreline that could be owned privately. Cost me a grand. Talk about a monopoly on a resource!

Now, I am not pro-G/O. But lets face it, you are going to have to deal with them.

Guides are not inherantly bad. 
I dont personally know Sheldon Schlect but from what I have gathered, he is a real wiener. I also know some doctors, lawyers, Catholic priests...who are real wieners but that doesnt mean they all are.
I was a fishing and hunting guide for a while in Alaska. Where I was at, you would have been screwed on your own. Served a purpose and made some money off of the resource.
I dont feel bad about that.

Apples and oranges? Not necessarily. Say you are from Chicago and you can only hunt one of your two 7 day NR time allotments in NoDak. Scouting is probably out of the question. All told, it is going to cost you an arm and a leg and you probably want to get your nickels worth. Hiring a guide may be in order.

A guide has to have a place to do business so he leases. That only makes sense. He leases land from people who own it. That is the only land he CAN lease. That translates to you not being able to hunt private property at will and that is what bothers you guys.

Now, it is too bad for you that this is happening but the bottom line is that it is out of your hands. It is an inconvienience for you but nobody is "stealing" from you as you make out. You dont soley own the birds and you dont own the land at all.

I was a NR freelancer in NoDak if you call getting to know some landowner and then hunting his land freelancing. The way the cost and restrictions have changed, it cramped my style enough to where I dont go out there any more. I can live with it.

I know that I will get blasted for bringing up the NR issue but this thread is about G/Os and leasing but there is a connection and you asked for input.
G/Os and leasing have probably benifited more from your efforts to thin the NR herd than anything.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Bert said:


> I was a NR freelancer in NoDak if you call getting to know some landowner and then hunting his land freelancing. The way the cost and restrictions have changed, it cramped my style enough to where I dont go out there any more. I can live with it..


Me too! dd:



Bert said:


> G/Os and leasing have probably benifited more from your efforts to thin the NR herd than anything.


Nope, it's all about the money, who has it and which side do they stand on.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Bert



> I still find it quite interesting how all of this turmoil seems to revolve around the misconceptions regarding who has a right to do what.


Let me Clarify my position the only Right that I consider I have is provided by The North Dakota Constitution and that is the right to hunt:



> _Article XI Section 27. Hunting, trapping, and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage and will be forever preserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good._


It doesn't say anything about having the right to access anyones property or pay to hunt. Hunting private property is a privilege.



> Guides are not inherantly bad.


Agreed we may not like what they do but they are for the most part operating with the bounds of the law.



> A guide has to have a place to do business so he leases. That only makes sense. He leases land from people who own it. That is the only land he CAN lease. That translates to you not being able to hunt private property at will and that is what bothers you guys.


Not me. What bothers me is in prime areas of the state, Take Hettinger County and the Devils lake Basin tons of land in the area but when you look in the PLOTS guide there are a couple of little token areas because the NDGF can not or will not compete with the outfitters and pony up to get more land in prime habitat areas.



> I know that I will get blasted for bringing up the NR issue but this thread is about G/Os and leasing but there is a connection and you asked for input. G/Os and leasing have probably benifited more from your efforts to thin the NR herd than anything.


I agree to a degree we have shot ourselves in the foot more than once. That being said should we just kill all the wildlife and do nothing to foster some type of conservation minded thinking?

Bob


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

4curl
Cute! Smug...but cute.

One day you may come to realize that it is better to have somebody in your tent peeing out than outside of your tent peeing in.

Yes, it is all about the money. There is now and will be more money to be made in guiding and outfitting since the sport is becoming more exclusive. An indirect result of your efforts to exclude.

Hope you can live with that.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Bert said:


> .Yes, it is all about the money. There is now and will be more money to be made in guiding and outfitting since the sport is becoming more exclusive. An indirect result of your efforts to exclude.
> 
> Hope you can live with that.


Come on Bert, we all know my efforts to exclude had nothing to do with say, Texas-Arkansas-Illinois-Maryland-New Mexico and the list goes on and on. We are just the last, that is all.

You can't blame a guy for trying to hold on to a shred of a lifestyle so it can be passed on to the next generation, can you?


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Bob,

Agreed.

My point is that some here love to rail against NRs, revel in the knowledge that they have negativly impacted their ability to freelance and then wonder why they dont get much support from NRs.

Prime land in Hettinger County has been leased up. Its too bad, but it is private land and money drive the prices up in real estate the world over.

Here in WC Minnesota you can get farmland for $1000.00 an acre but you cant touch hunting land with $2000.00 an acre.
Lakeshore property? Forget about it. Sucks, unless you own some but that is kinda the way the ball bounces.

Now, lets say that I didnt own land or lakeshore in Minnesota but used the resources. Now lets say that my livlihood directly or indirectly depended upon tourism. Who am I to bi+ch about outsiders and lack of access?

Lets say that I live in Mpls. and fish in WC Minnesota. Lets also say that my livelihood is not impacted at all from tourism. Who am I to bi+ch when there is a crowd at "my fishin hole" or because the price has been driven out of my reach so I cannot buy land or lakeshore?

I agree that it is not fun. Lots of things are not fun. Getting priced out and frustrated out of freelance hunting in NoDak was not fun.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

4curl

The intent of your efforts may not have been in order to become Texas or Ark. I was simply pointing out that the result of your efforts may have hastened that process.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

By the way 4 curl, I would have liked to pass my NoDak experiences on the to next generation as well. I dont blame you for trying but I do not like to be blamed for your problem when I was a bigger asset to you than a hindrance.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

No one is blaming Bert as an individual, it is the sheer numbers of hunters in total that makes the experience unpleasant. If I had my way I'd have Bert come to NoDak every year, we like you and we like your money.

I agree with you in total that it is fast becoming a sport for the have crowd, while the have nots get the whats left in the toilet bowl.

You know better than all of us what its like to lose access and an overall terrific experience while afield in WC Mn. I am sure you have seen great changes in the landscape where hunting is concerned and they are all not good. Right?

We have alot more in common Bert than we think.

Regards.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

There are so many on this website that deserve respect. The Bob Kellams and Dick Monsons of the world are the reason I still chime in. The cbutts and a$$wipes off the world are the reason I stay so sarcastic and abrasive.
I have NEVER worked for Kyle. I work in a school system and bartend to make ends meet so I can stay married and still hunt and fish.
cbass,
Meet me anytime, anywhre and let us have a meeting of the minds. Or should I say my mind and your regressed greymatter. :lol: 
I am out for a while. Many hunting signs to post to make sure that 95% of the slbck pricks on this website won't be able to hunt the pridelands. Mainly because the invitation I put out last spring has been answered by not many. Not many slbck's up here to ask or even call. 
Gee, I wonder why you mental midgets have trouble getting on land. It only suits you when you want something.
OUT
Cootkiller


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Hey Coot!

Thanks I think!

I am going to make it a point this fall to stop in and give you a brand new punching bag, that says hit before posting on nodakoutdoors.

PEACE!
:beer:

Bob


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

cootkiller said:


> The cbutts and a$$wipes off the world are the reason I stay so sarcastic and abrasive.95% of the slbck pricks on this website won't be able to hunt the pridelands. mental midgets
> Cootkiller


English teahers!! I'll never figure them out!! :lost:

Kinda reminds you of the dad in the movie "A Christmas Story" when he goes down to fix the furnace. :lol: :lol:


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

*Coot said:*


> Many hunting signs to post .....


Coot if you run out of posters I'll send you some of mine. Walking Hunters Welcome. Or you can get them free from NDGF. :wink: And don't be afraid of the PLOTS program either. They are still taking acres. Help Tourism along a little. You might start a trend in the basin.


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## cbass (Sep 9, 2003)

cootbanger,

Similar to cbutts i guess after all you are the teacher. :lol: Funny thing is i live right down the road from you closer than you may think. I don't follow this site like the gospel like some do on here but i thought that you were a farmer, or are you just from a farm, you lucky little cootbanger. All that land and no one to hunt with. Surprised that no one answered your plea for a hunting partner, please you are the golden one everyone bows to you, you expect inferior souls to hunt with you, common now. Teachers have their summers of so maybe you are a want to be farmer, what happened dad/uncle won't cut you in on a piece of the pie, give it time pal give it time. OK enough with that i think you get my point, or not.

Pridelands huh ??????????????

I have been all over your little pride lands and they look no different the the section bordering them, so what makes them the pridelands?

Is it because cootbanger has exclusive rights to the pridelands, or so you let you g/o budies bang with you? Personally i think it is the pridelands because you get to hunt all of it, someone else gets to maintain it, pay taxes on it, and live on it. Wow that land is alot different than any of the other land in ND.

Just a few questions i had for you.

Don't know what i said to upset you but if it was my refrence to KB (so secritive) i am sorry for telling the truth. I don't think you or he want me to tell my stories and frankly i don't want to because there is no need. People make their opinions and mine was made for me before even meeting the man. Is that bad for me to form opinions? Not when you here the same stories over and over agian from a number of people in the area and see them myself.

So banger a meeting of the minds? Nah i will have to pass on that one as i don't associate with the likes of people like you. When you are putting out sings don't forget that 1/4 NW of the farm that is and forever will be the pride of the pridelands.

Don't be mad CB i really do love all people!  
cbutt


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Know what is even more funny about you *****ing about slbks COOT. I hunted on your land in the spring about 3 years ago. And it sure is funny how I can get on as much land as I want SW of your area. I guess it makes since to make good friendships.

I guess that is kinda of a kick in the face eh COOT?
I have hunted the pride lands and they dont even come close to some of the other land in the state I have hunted. :lol:


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

"Similar to cbutts i guess after all you are the teacher. Funny thing is i live right down the road from you closer than you may think. I don't follow this site like the gospel like some do on here but i thought that you were a farmer, or are you just from a farm, you lucky little cootbanger. All that land and no one to hunt with. Surprised that no one answered your plea for a hunting partner, please you are the golden one everyone bows to you, you expect inferior souls to hunt with you, common now. Teachers have their summers of so maybe you are a want to be farmer, what happened dad/uncle won't cut you in on a piece of the pie, give it time pal give it time. OK enough with that i think you get my point, or not.

Pridelands huh ??????????????

I have been all over your little pride lands and they look no different the the section bordering them, so what makes them the pridelands?

Is it because cootbanger has exclusive rights to the pridelands, or so you let you g/o budies bang with you? Personally i think it is the pridelands because you get to hunt all of it, someone else gets to maintain it, pay taxes on it, and live on it. Wow that land is alot different than any of the other land in ND.

Just a few questions i had for you.

Don't know what i said to upset you but if it was my refrence to KB (so secritive) i am sorry for telling the truth. I don't think you or he want me to tell my stories and frankly i don't want to because there is no need. People make their opinions and mine was made for me before even meeting the man. Is that bad for me to form opinions? Not when you here the same stories over and over agian from a number of people in the area and see them myself.

So banger a meeting of the minds? Nah i will have to pass on that one as i don't associate with the likes of people like you. When you are putting out sings don't forget that 1/4 NW of the farm that is and forever will be the pride of the pridelands."

TOUCHE`

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes coot, and you have served me at the Cove and that belongs to Kyle. Who was it you said you didn't work for? Come on Coot fess up. You are so for the g/o's because it's a buck in your pocket. You're a nice guy to visit with, until money gets involved.

I read about how much these outfitters do for kids. A kids day or something like that. Stop and think for a minute. For every kid they take out a hundred run into posted signs on leased land. So that means they don't shaft 100 % of the kids, only 99%.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Plainsman, Talk is cheap but it takes money to buy whiskey. I like many outfitters sponser several youth hunts a year, I also never charge anyone under the age of 18,give free trapshooting a shooting lessons to area youth. Have a designated youth hunting area they can hunt anytime. I like many others in my trade help and do whatever we can. Now Plainsman WHAT THE HELL DO YOU DO


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Now that everyone has exercised his or her? respective tempers can we get to the bottom of the issue

Coot is a young man with a lot of fire that happens to be a Teacher. I have had a couple of teachers like that, hey I loved those classes!!!!! He is proud of his area and is a loyal employee.
Still gives you no right to call others names if you don't like them or their situation. 

Cbass seems to have some issues with some locals from his home area.
You posted
"People make their opinions and mine was made for me before even meeting the man"

I do not understand this who made your opinion about KB? you or the influence of others? You say you met him. Did you discuss any of the issues? Again no right to call others names if you don't like them or their situation. You owe it to yourself to resolve these issues. 

GB3 is also a young man with a lot of fire, I know you pretty well.
A very accomplished hunter for his age. If he could he would ditch work in a second and hunt every day. He brings a lot of knowledge to the waterfowl hunting table. 

Plainsman has been around the block a couple of times and learned a bunch of things every trip. 
One word "seasoned" :beer:

g/o is a ND landowner/farmer trying to survive
I know him, I have shared a pot of coffee with him (I drank the coffee he drank soda) and he is a very easy man to have a conversation with face to face. I have seen what he does for youth hunters. His motives with youth hunting should never be questioned. You have to take my word for it or contact him and see for yourself. You will be impressed! 

4Curl= Hardcore waterfowler Likes the lighter side of life but can be as serious as a heart-attack! :beer:

Why is it that as hunters if didn't know each other and met in the Pheasant cafe in Mott while having breakfast and decided to hunt together we would probably all walk shoulder to shoulder through that field and have a great time doing it!!!

Issues between Outfitters, Guides and Freelance Hunters need to be factual, out in the open and shoulder-to-shoulder for the benefit of all! Just like walking that field.

I cannot say it any plainer than that!

Don't mean to lecture anyone, I am just an old overweight guy trying to make a difference!!

Kyle you in there?

Please get back on topic and be constructive. :beer: 

Thank You

PEACE!
Bob


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Bob, earlier on this thread Kyle explained why he doesn't participate on these forums. Now you can see why many of us care not to participate. Bob, you are very dedicated to your beliefs and I appreciate that. One get a little tired of being compared to a drug dealer and a few other things by some of the others on this site. There is not much sense to even trying to suggest anything here. Have a good one


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

g/o and Bobm - thanks for coming back!

I had some ideas (solutions?) that I threw out at the beginning of this thread, but I didn't do a very good job of explaining what I see as the issues.

In my mind, there are two issues.

*1.) Leasing of land by outfitters.
2.) Hunter pressure driving birds (waterfowl) not only out of the area but out of the state.*

*Land leasing:* This activity removes land available to the public at large for free lance hunting.

On an individual farm basis, the landowner has the option of doing what he wants to. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be. 'nuff said on that issue!

Leased land, on a small scale, is is not a problem. However, in good hunting areas, leasing by outfitters is not on a small scale (i.e. Mott and the Devils Lake area). In these areas, significant land is inaccessible to the public at large for hunting. Then, freelance hunters do not come back to these areas. This is why we seek restrictions on outfitters and the amount of land they can lease.

*Hunting pressure:* High hunting pressure drives waterfowl out of the area and out of the state.

When this happens (a good example is the Steele, Dawson, Robinson, Pettibone, Woodworth area), reduced waterfowl popoulations will discourage the freelance hunter.

Now, what is the similarity in both of these areas.
*
Low access or low bird numbers = Less freelance hunters*

*To those that want to use hunting as an economic developement tool, less freelance hunters will not improve your economic situation!* The clients of outfitters will carry the outfitters financially, but freelance hunters are what will carry the local communities. If the population numbers or land access will not support freelance hunting (by both resident and non-resident hunters), you lose!

As a hunter, I am concerned about the deteriorating waterfowl hunting in ND due to increasing hunter pressure. Resident hunting pressure (mainly on weekends) is decreasing, NR hunting pressure (mainly all week long) is increasing. This has definitly had an adverse impact on waterfowl populations in ND during the last 10 years. It is obvious where hunting pressure restrictions need to be applied.

The bottom line is this: Hunting is not an unlimited resource. If we manage it well for the general population, we will all benefit. If we manage it for the benefit of the few, only a few will benefit.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

jhegg said:


> The bottom line is this: Hunting is not an unlimited resource. If we manage it well for the general population, we will all benefit. If we manage it for the benefit of the few, only a few will benefit.


An age old statement that is the key to the life and time of freelance hunters.
Will the commercial industry compromise to suit the freelance hunter?

Will they want give up leased land to allow better access for the freelance hunter?

Will landowners give up the income from leased land by g/os?

Can they compromise without sacrificing $$?

Do you feel we as a whole, meaning all fellow NoDakers, can attain a suitable compromise for both parties without giving up what we both so desire?

g/o and Kyle, shed some light on these questions and I for one will not reply back with any negative BS. You have my word.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The clients of outfitters will carry the outfitters financially, but freelance hunters are what will carry the local communities.


Your absolutely right. A landowner gets a few scraps from leased land, but the small town dies. Then he drives 30 miles for a carton of milk, and it cost him through the nose to have someone show up and work on his John Deer. My home town is only 350 people. The bank left ten years ago, two of the three elevators are closed, two years ago the grocery closed, now the town folk drive to Devils Lake for groceries and anything else they need. The grocer complained about no hunters, but everything got posted tight about five years ago. Why? Two active outfitters.

Even the landowners who charged have no hunters to charge now, and the drive 30 miles for milk and pay through the nose for repairs wasn't my imagination, it is what my family back home goes through now.

Gain pennies today, and loose dollars tomorrow. We try teach our children to look into the future, but even our legislature isn't capable of that.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

4curl, you need to make another post, I don't care for the number you have made so far. To answer your questions, a no for all of them, sorry but that is probably the answer you will get. I agree you are asking g/o's to give up this and that and that is not going to happen. Now to help solve some of the problems. We as residents of this state have an oppurtunity to work together on some things. I don't know but maybe under the new Outfitter bill we could somehow get a control on leasing. For instance a preserve license you must provide a written lease for the acres leased in that preserve. You also need to be bonded, I also carry liability on all acres that I do not own. Maybe make this mandatory for all leased land ? Make it to be signed as so you know its leased and must be registered with the state. Get a better control of things, I know of land that is leased but thats only between the outfitter and landowner. Make these kind of things illegal and hefty fines loss of licenses etc. This will be your only chance of controlling leasing. I agree also with jheggs view that less access less birds less hunters. I do disagree with the HPC to let in less nonresident hunters. One only has to look at the PLOTS activity the Monday after the pheasant opener as they sit empty and non resident freelance hunter are not allowed there. We have zones so lets try in one of those zones something different first. Half day hunting for waterfowl and a bunch more rest areas. Lets try this before we go chasing people away. Try some realistic approach before blaming everything on outfitters and try to get something that will work for all parties.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

ME EITHER G/O!! #667

No is the answer.



g/o said:


> Try some realistic approach before blaming everything on outfitters and try to get something that will work for all parties.


Suggestions?


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

g/o

I posted this idea on leasing on another thread here.



> All leased land shall be secured by outfitters prior to September 30th of the current year. Leased entered into after that date shall be considered illegal. All recreational/hunting land leases shall be signed, notarized and include a legal description and a monitory lease value of the property. All land lease documentation shall be available for inspection upon request by NDGF representatives. All recreational/hunting land lease documentation for the previous years hunting season shall be provided to NDGF for publication of total land leased report. Failure to submit accurate records shall be considered a violation with revocation of license.


To Firm?

You sometimes seem to be against things just because. I have proposed a bunch of things that will benefit O/G's and us. And I don't think they are slanted toward one side or the other. I know of some leases that took place where the cash changed hands in the bar at a table I was sitting at. If that money ever got taxed, I do not know. And yes I said something about it but it fell on deaf ears. You need a SA that has a pair and some do not want to waste their time upholding some of the laws they are supposed to, because??? I would like to know the reason why.

Tell me where in ND it is that you can lease anything without a paperwork trail like some O/G's do and still have it hold up in court?

g/o you know full well I am not trying to pick a fight. I just have questions that nag at me and I have to ask them.

Bob


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Please Bob and 4 curl go back and re read my last post here. I explained many not that well but some things that could be done now with the new o/g law going into effect. If you re read my post you will see that I said we need to get a better control on things. Also this should be over in the other section not on the day kb 's duck blocked the sun.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

That is odd GB#. 
Three years ago we didn't let anyone hunt on our stuff in the spring.
WEe were wondering who was banging away on the pridelands while dad was at school and my brother was out of town.
I don't know though if I would openly brag about tresspassing on a posted field. :withstupid:

As far as the pridelands being inferior to other parts of the stae. Yes at some times of the year there are other spots that are better i.e. in the later part of the season where there is a lot of corn the hunting will be better there. However, when it is primetime in the pridelands, even Stuttgart, Arkansas would get a run for its money.

I find it funny that so many on this forum call themselves outdoorsmen yet never leave their keyboards to go outdoors.

OUCH , that one had to hurt huh DOsch.

cootkiller


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Nope. But I bet the NCLB regulations do for you! Have another beer.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Actually, there Dosch, I am already highly qualified to teach many more subjects then just the one I teach.
So, no headaches here. Well, not from that anyway. Reading your mindless buzz though has given me a nasty migraine.

As for the other comment about Kyle owning woodland and me working at the cove. Those statements are both true, however, if you had your ducks in a row you would know Kyle doesn't run the restaurant and bar.
This will more than likely be one of my last posts for a while for a number of reasons.
A. I will be busy in the outdoors, you know that place where true outdoorsmen go, not sitting in front of a keyboard.
B. School started
C. Football started
D. The IQ of the people posting on here has dropped so drastically low it often hurts the eyes to even read some of this junk. (Gohon, may God have mercy on your soul. Get used to really hot things.)
cootkiller


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Gohon, may God have mercy on your soul. Get used to really hot things


What the hell is that suppose to mean. You set yourself up to make decisions for God now????? Just the name cootkiller alone pretty well sums up your IQ so don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Coot, talk about the inability for a cognizant cerebral exercise. It makes no difference if Kyle manages the Cove or not, he owns it. If he owns it you work for him. Don't try teach logic, or philosophy your not even marginally qualified. 
I looked back in the threads and tried to find a post by Gohon. Maybe I missed it, but I couldn't find any. What's the matter, did you just realize there was someone you hadn't insulted yet, or were you feeling a lack of conflict? Hint: don't try teach diplomacy either. Also, I am betting anger management is out.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yeah, has me wondering also what his is talking about. I think I know and if I'm correct it is a sad day when someone like he can be called a teacher.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

> Coot, talk about the inability for a cognizant cerebral exercise.


I like that phrase.... :lol: ... Plainsman, I think ol' coot is not able of perceiving nor is knowledgeable enough to engage his brain when he needs too!!!

Gohon, hey it sounds like you have a "fan club"... :lol: .... What in the heck did you do to him???? Did you piss him off or something on another thread??? I cant see anywhere where you even posted on this one. Your name must preceed itself!!! :lol: :wink:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Ps: I know, I know.....I said I would NEVER use that "quote thing". Well I just did. :lost:

Hey cootnuts, "Yea, though I walk through the valley of death...I shall fear no mother****er because I am the meanest mother****er in the valley.".......Give me a break *****!!!!


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Gohon, hey it sounds like you have a "fan club"... .... What in the heck did you do to him???? Did you piss him off or something on another thread???


I don't recall ever talking to the guy in any thread. Only thing I can think of that may be what he is blabbering about is I once mentioned in a thread I was agnostic. If that is it, then he doesn't know the difference between agnostic and atheist which I'm not. Then again I don't know why that would bother him. Poor fella............


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Gohon,

Maybe he thinks you are God without believing in God.... :lol:

I find it quite funny talking with folks on here!!!!! Some REALLY dont get it!!! (education levels????)


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Wishing you luck with the football team. Have Fun! 8)


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## cbass (Sep 9, 2003)

bang-cootty-banger
You say the IQ of the posts has dropped? It just so happens that you just started posting, but then again you are a teacher so you know all about IQ's. Not only is banger a teacher but it appears he/she is also the lords messanger. Every post you have on here is about your arrrogance, but even though i still have deep emotional thoughts for you.  
Please come back golden one we need. Pridelands for life!!!! Don't worry banger some day your Dad/Uncle will cut you in on a piece of the pie, then and only then will you actually have something to talk about, not to mention you won't have to be KB's house wife anymore.

Have you ever asked yourself what you would be without KB? Just another loser on this site like the rest of us i bet!

No i think you would be a nobody who thought he was somebody because someone pays your dad/uncle to lease their land, and because it is your 
dad/uncle KB feels the need to give you a job scooping minnows in the summer at his resort. I am inspired by your career, drop me a line and i could fill the bucket with water for you prior to the minnows.

Golden one i salute you, what is heaven like?

Please critique my grammer, mr./mrs. banger.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Boys, take a hint.

Nodak Outdoors - Registration Agreement Terms

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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Thank you Dick.
Dosch, it is funny to read the posts of the lot you are in with.
cbass and gohon sure sound like winners. Check their addresses also.

As far as filling a minnow bucket, never have. I bartend in the summer. But I don't expect mental neophytes to be able to comprehend the diefference.
Hey, are you guys GOING hunting on thursday or still sitting at you computers, eating cheetos, and calling the doctor to ask why your shphonce is orange. 

cootkiller


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

This is going nowhere. Travis, every thread you post on goes bad.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/terms.html

I will not remind you of the terms again, nor will I give another warning.

LOCKED


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

cootkiller said:


> That is odd GB#.
> Three years ago we didn't let anyone hunt on our stuff in the spring.
> WEe were wondering who was banging away on the pridelands while dad was at school and my brother was out of town.
> I don't know though if I would openly brag about tresspassing on a posted field. :withstupid:


Permission was acquired, by the way. All it took was a phone call to the name on the sign.


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