# APOSTASY-Yep, free at last, free at last!!!!



## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Now you know I am a 30-06 fan from reading my former posts on this and other forums. But you nor I, nor anyone can get the 06 to group as well as some other cartridges and espescially the 308, try as we have. Am I saying the 308 is the best cartridge, HEAVENS NO!!! Now some might debate what I have just said and I look forward to the opporunity since so much of what could be said I do not have the time and space to do so. I have worked on loads with the 06 and have owned some of the most expensive and fine rifles in the 06 cartridge for over 30yrs of reloading and shooting the 06. My best shooter in the 06 group of rifles I own is really not a true 06, it is a Custom Sako TRG 30-06 Ackley Improved with a Lilja 24" barrel and yet it even has not out shot the following cartridges and rifles. I have shot some awesome one whole groups in my life from the Sako custom 7mm 08, Savage 7mmSTW, Sako 308, Custom Mark V 300WBY, these being a few but all of these have out shot my 06's for accuracy and I am hear to tell you the 06 is not the best or most accurate cartridge for shooting or hunting. Yes, it is the closest thing to an all around cartridge in some respects but the problem with the 06 is that, it can do a lot of things but not any one thing better than other special cartridges. If it could, then I for one and most anyone with shooting skills and hunting concerns would NOT have turned to other cartridges and every one would shoot a 30-06 because hunters and shooters want the best for the job. If you are going to use the 06 for everything in north america because it is all you can afford then you are not really being honest. Why? Well if you are going to use it on everything which means you could afford the hunting trips, then you also could afford other special cartridges and should use them because they meet certain hunting and game conditions better than the 06 can. After a little more than 30yrs with loading shooting, hunting with the 06 I have come to a conclusion that will be considered in my opinion by the uninformed and those without years of trial and error experience "apostasy." So be it, then I have fallen from the faithful. And if the faithful are those that are biased due to ignorance and lack of experience then I am glad that I have fallen into apostasy. In fact, I have been set free from "trying out of pride," "trying out of shooting skills" "spending tons of money on rifles and loading components, to hold on to the illusion and the laborious task of proving the impossible, that the 06 is the best. Free at last, Yes!!! Free at last.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Yes, it is the closest thing to an all around cartridge in some respects but the problem with the 06 is that, it can do a lot of things but not any one thing better than other special cartridges.


Other special cartridges? That can be said of any round in existence. And why does anyone need to shoot one hole groups for hunting. Any cartridge that will place it's bullet in a six inch circle at it's maximum effective range will kill just as easily and just as dead as a gun that will shoot one hole groups at 100 yards.


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Gohon said:


> > Yes, it is the closest thing to an all around cartridge in some respects but the problem with the 06 is that, it can do a lot of things but not any one thing better than other special cartridges.
> 
> 
> Other special cartridges? That can be said of any round in existence. And why does anyone need to shoot one hole groups for hunting. Any cartridge that will place it's bullet in a six inch circle at it's maximum effective range will kill just as easily and just as dead as a gun that will shoot one hole groups at 100 yards.


You said, "that can be said of any round in existence." That is not so! You have missed the point. There is not a single thing the 06 can do that some other cartridge can not do better. Now other cartridges do things that no other cartridge can do as well as they can. The 06 is just in the middle, it is niether good or bad it is just not the best in any give specific use. Yes it can do it all but not any one thing the best. The 30-06! I have owned 6 different rifle makes in 06. Yes it is a grand cartridge but it is not the best. Most popular, YES! An Icon, YES! All around cartridge, NO! There isn't one! Most 30 cal. cartridges are great ones but none fill the illusive "All In One Rifle." Being a die hard fan for all these years of the 06, I did not say lightly nor with indifference but with much respect and will from time to time pick mine up and use them. But I will accept it for what it is and not pretend or make it something it is not, nor will I act or talk like it is the magic cartridge with no inherent weakness. Even at a hundred yards it just as dead as you said, yes, it is, if that is the limit of your range in hunting but your statement proved nothing nor disproved a thing I said but in essence avoided my very point. I believe if the manufactures would offer the 06 in 1 and 11 or 1 and 12 twist it would help the smaller bullets but 1 and 10 makes the heavier bullets work well, of course that is the problem, everyone wants to make the 30-06 the all around cartridge. Once again, I really like my 06 but I am not going to try any more to make it what it is not. One of my favorite rifles is my 30-06 Ackley IMp. My handloads in this rifle actually are better than a 300H&H which I think was a real killer also. I will not limit myself to the idea anymore of an all-a-round rifle. In doing so I find myself with either to much or not enough or just so so, depending on the kind of hunting or circumstances, when that is not needed with all the great cartridges out there today. And on top of all of that, shooting a small group at a 100yds does matter because the farther your target is down range the more important on long shots is the group at 100yds. Of course if you make long shots in open country you know what I am talking about and the 06 is not a real good open country cartridge. Will it shoot far, Yes! will it shoot as good far off as many other cartridges can, NO!!!!


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

First of all the 30-06 is not my favorite cartridge. Second place, I did not say to limit the 30-06 to 100 yards. I said your one hole groups at 100 yards is no more effective than the 30-06 at it maximum effective range which I place at 300-400 yards. As I said before, if I can take that 30-06 and place the shots in a 6 inch circle at it's maximum effective range on deer size game or 8" for elk size game, your one hole 100 yard gun will not sever you any better with end results. It may make you feel better and give you bragging fodder but won't bring home the bacon any better. Since the 30-06 is plenty gun for anything that walks North America from ground hogs to the big bears I would say that does in fact make it a all around cartridge. Anything below the 30-06, excluding the 308 will not work on the upper end ( game) of that scale and anything above the 30-06 has a hard time working at the lower end of that scale without being down right punishing. The 30-06 is considered the all around cartridge for the simple reason that it works and does it well. So what is the thing the 30-06 does well better than any other cartridge...... that's easy, it will do it all. No, I didn't miss your point.......... I just don't agree with you.


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

That is apparent, good post, good points, I understand your arguments I have used them, I just don't agree with you.


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Well, I have worked this one long enough and I knew writing what I wrote concerning the 06 would get me into all kinds of trouble. One person told me it would be suicide to post my belief on the subject. Well, I appriciate all the posts, the agruments, some were good, some compelling, some weak, some strong. Agreed with some did not with others. What did I accomplish, not much, but it was an adventure to say the least. Lot of passion when it comes to our rifles, shooting and hunting. Thanks it was fun. :sniper: :beer:


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

What is a guns "maximum effective range"?


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

The distance a firearm is capable of having enough power to anchor down the target animal. Or you could also say the distance that YOU can shoot it accuratley enough to hit what you are aiming at.


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Let me make a few qualifying remarks so no one miss understands me. I have three rifles I really do love and use a lot and will continue to use. They are my 30-06 Ackley IMP, 300WBY, 7mmSTW and when my 257WBY comes because I like and have uesed that Cal. will be the fourth one in the bunch. Some one said, "how can you argue with the masses about the 06 not being the all around rifle. By being willing to tell the truth and stand by it to the best of my knowledge and experience. Anybody can follow the crowd, but I choose to at least try and think for my self. I know what the masses are like I was one of them and could I argue the point, but the facts just don't add up. I will not limit myself to the idea anymore of an all-a-round rifle. In doing so I find myself with either to much or not enough or just so so, depending on the kind of hunting or circumstances, when that is not needed with all the great cartridges out there today.

The 06, as I have said, is a perfect back up and can be used if you have a mixed hunt and want only to take one rifle. Yes! I know what I just said. I would use my 30-06 Ackley Imp. for that job, but would prefer my 300WBY or even the 257WBY. My 06 Ackley IMP did put a black bear down last Oct. for me, and I really like that rifle. I guess in all that I said I could have summed it up with just saying that "the 06 is a pretty good jack of all trades and a master of none. That statement does not make it "THE" all around rifle but it is probably the closest to the all around rifle if 300yds and in is the limit we are discussing in taking game. If we are talking 600yds and in it would be either the 300WBY or 257WBY for me. Yep, the 30-06 that has been my friend for years and in dangerous situations. It has truly been a "jack of all trades and master of none." But to say that I don't have feelings for the 30-06 would be to judge me unfairly. But also, feelings are not the bases for establishing truth, but please don't ever question how I feel about the 30-06 because it is still my friend and nothing can replace the memories it has porvided me through the years. Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings.
:beer:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Are you bored or something? :lol:


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Jiffy said:


> Are you bored or something? :lol:


Well hello "Jiffy", about time you came along and lifted me out of my boredum. If it is boredum, it sure has been fun, but you might be right, yes, you just might be right. :beer:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Just wondering is all.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

coyote_buster
Good post it really was I was wanting someone to put their foot in the mouth and say something dumb.


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