# 1929 or 2008



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

From Britains largest paper.
Jim Rogers & Morgan Stanley say we are now in a Recession.

Im in the Financing industry over 11 years, Ive never seen it this bad. Everyone I speak with, with few exception, says things are way down.
Engineered swindle, imo.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.j ... tviewedbox


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Forecast: U.S. dollar could plunge 90%

Published: Nov. 19, 2007 at 2:16 PM

RHINEBECK, N.Y., Nov. 19 (UPI) -- A financial crisis will likely send the U.S. dollar into a free fall of as much as 90 percent and gold soaring to $2,000 an ounce, a trends researcher said.

"We are going to see economic times the likes of which no living person has seen," Trends Research Institute Director Gerald Celente said, forecasting a "Panic of 2008."

"The bigger they are, the harder they'll fall," he said in an interview with New York's Hudson Valley Business Journal.

Celente -- who forecast the subprime mortgage financial crisis and the dollar's decline a year ago and gold's current rise in May -- told the newspaper the subprime mortgage meltdown was just the first "small, high-risk segment of the market" to collapse.

Derivative dealers, hedge funds, buyout firms and other market players will also unravel, he said.
Massive corporate losses, such as those recently posted by Citigroup Inc. and General Motors Corp., will also be fairly common "for some time to come," he said.

He said he would not "be surprised if giants tumble to their deaths," Celente said.
The Panic of 2008 will lead to a lower U.S. standard of living, he said.
A result will be a drop in holiday spending a year from now, followed by a permanent end of the "retail holiday frenzy" that has driven the U.S. economy since the 1940s, he said.

© 2007 United Press International. All Rights Reserved.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

I think the important thing to realize or that I would like to get some input on regards the following...

What do American's Produce?

What is it that we deliver to the world economies that is in demand?

It is our ability to consume... Americans today fuel the world economy not by producing ships, cars, clothing or any of the other durable goods that was a traditional output before in history (excluding Farm Products). We do though consume goods and services at accellerating rates. These goods and services that we now consume have made it possible for what were once considered to be under industrialized nations (Third World and now a Fourth World) to flourish from their ability to produce goods and services at a much cheaper price. This seems though as a catch 22 as Foreign Investment and debt servicing by other nations has reached an all-time high ...

This to me really senbds up two signals...1. We are becoming larger pawns in the world economy and 2. More of the profits from our econimics activities is going over seas thus increasing their ability to influence reason # 1

...................................................................................................... 
This is what I began to write prior to the above...

In todays world economy the stabalization of what are considered Thrid World Countries... that is countries that did not fit into the definitions set forth after the NATO and Warsaw Pact countries were essentially split into "Western & Eastern Bloc Countries... they later becaome known as the First (democratic and inductrialized) and Second (communist and industrialized) Worlds. Later in the 1950's a French demographer realized that there were many countries in the world that lagged behind these to "worlds" in terms of industrialization and infratructure and coined the term Thrid World Countries.


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## water_swater (Sep 19, 2006)

There is no doubt that Americans are consumers and consuming at an extreme rate compared with the rest of the world. In response to your question what do you produce, we produce ideas, technology, we have shipped the dirty manufacturing overseas. We reached our peak as producers in the 50's and have been declining and sharing more of the world market ever since. The latest problem is that we have been educating foreign students and shipping those students back home where they create the new ideas in their country. There are only so many intelligent people in the world if we keep educating and exporting thats our biggest worry.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Supply-Side economics are retarded.

We keep spending money we don't have, is it any suprise our dollar is worth a lot less?

So what's the fix? Apparently tax cuts if you listen to the politicians. Which to me seems pretty stupid. Throw a few hundred bucks to families and tell them to spend and that will take care of our economy??? All that is, is a temporary band-aid to the main problem. Cost of living in this country is getting too high for the average person. Our country doesn't need tax cuts, it needs better paying jobs for the middle class.

...meanwhile CEO's are still making a killing....


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Matt a 1% cut in taxes amounts to 3/4% increase in GDP which equates to twice the amount of tax dollars sent to the IRS! Source Kent Conrad D-ND!

Taxes could be cut by 50% and the amount of revenue to the Gov would go unchanged in the course of the next two years. Taking money out of the economy and having it redistribute by Washington reduces productivity and will slow and stop the increase in taxes collected.

This has been proven over and over going back to John F Kennedy. Understanding that the deficit is a result of over spending in Washington and not from to little taxation is critical to change.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

> We do though consume goods and services at accellerating rates.





> We keep spending money we don't have, is it any suprise our dollar is worth a lot less?


Those statements hit the mark. Personal debt in this country is higher than it has ever been. The last few generations have gotten into the habit of spending what they don't have. Credit cards have not helped this either. I think I heard that the average adult carried 10K in credit card debt.



> Cost of living in this country is getting too high for the average person. Our country doesn't need tax cuts, it needs better paying jobs for the middle class.


Maybe...maybe not......... I think part of this goes back to overspending.I can't even count the number of people I am aware of that can barely hold on to their 20-25K house but they have 2 new -30K vehicles, 3-4 new 5-7K
recreational vehicles a $1,200 TV, $3000 worth of video games & equipment and so on and it is all disposable. The priority seems to be have fun while you can no matter what the cost. Guess they are counting on SS to take care of them when they are old. I do know that if things go sour I will finally have the money to buy all those things cause they are gonna become real cheap.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

dakotashooter2,

I was referring to the Federal Government, not Americans. Although I will agree with you that they have the same problem.

Ron,

Good numbers there. Too bad they'd only work if the government spent only within it's budget. I'm all for lower taxes...AFTER our government spends within it's budget and pays down the deficit. Which will NEVER HAPPEN.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

Matt Jones said:


> dakotashooter2,
> 
> I was referring to the Federal Government, not Americans. Although I will agree with you that they have the same problem.
> 
> ...


Than why expect it? I think you might be a happier person if you would just LOWER your expectations a little bit :wink:


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

1929, no not there yet.

But 1981? You bet. There was 40% unemployed in the trades in 81-82. I see the same thing for this year.

Around here they do not have build a house for 2 years and we still would be over built for a healthy market.

It is going to be interesting wiht the housing slump, very tight credit, falling value of dollar and the deficet spending of the Govt, and huge price increases in fuel and food this year..

The one thing the rural guys do not have is a repeat of 1980 though--when the farm value fell in 1/2 and no price for crops. But if this economy gets worse, undoubtedly the prices will fall for the farmer/rancher too. History loves to repeat itself. So word to the wise, pay off ALL debts, do not borrow $ to buy equipement, do not take out over valued land value loans---as that is what the farmers did in the late 70s and more than 1/2 lost their farms as a result in the early 80s. What will happen if fertilizer, seed, and fuel keeps going up and corn goes to $3 a bushel? And similar drop in price for other grains and livestock? Thus some best think about the what if scenario before you barrow to go into debt.


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