# WHERE IS EVERYONE???



## ChukarBob

In past years, there would be a crescendo of posts beginning around June, throughout the summer, and into early fall, in anticipation of the coming bird season. I enjoyed reading them and they helped to whet my appetite for the new bird season. But not this year. What's happened? C'mon, fellas, it's time to get excited.


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## kgpcr

They have totally killed this forum because of if you give out a town or what ever you get rebuked. This is now a wasteland. Its too bad as i used to really enjoy it but they totally killed it.


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## Habitat Hugger

I think rebuking helpful people is much worse on the 'other' website. There is always a bit of secrecy among hunters and fishermen, but IMO it has gotten much worse over the past few years. 
I find Nodakoutdoors much more friendly and helpful than elsewhere though gadget advice and stuff like that is usually given pretty freely on most websites. Places, techniques, not so much.
I get the impression that fewer residents hunt ducks and waterfowl these days. Seems less hunters each year out there. Hope I'm wrong.


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## Plainsman

I think there are a number of reasons the traffic is down. Number one is facebook. People now keep in touch with a large group of friends. The oil fields have led to more posting. Some will say bs, but you can see it with your own eyes. That leaves fewer hunters. Some outfitters are tying up land. So much land that some doesn't get hunted. That leads to fewer hunters. Some sites are more lax and let people attack each other personally. Some people like that so they are not on this site. Some will blame people that do not agree with them so they take their bat and ball and go looking for agreement. Who knows for sure. 
I do know it picks up close to deer season, and it picks up close to elections. You will notice some debate now between pro conservation and anti conservation.

Edit: Perhaps number one should have been: every subject has been covered.  I shoot fawns lasted for years and tens of pages. Also 223 for deer was a run away for a while.


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## Dick Monson

Ha, "I shoot fawns" was a classic. What, 20-30,000 views.

Anyway, I do hear the phez season is stacking up to be a good one, or as good as last year. The guys to the west are saying there is a staggered hatch due to weather. Cover is going to be thick and tall with all the rain this summer. Many of the small cattail sloughs have water to the edge so maybe they won't get nuked this fall.


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## Habitat Hugger

Yes' looks like a surprisingly good pheasant crop this fall. Seeing lots of little ones. No partridge yet.


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## ChukarBob

My North Dakota pheasant hunt is the only trip I start planning on my way home from the current year's hunt. Glad to hear that the birds numbers might be as good as last year, possibly better. We've had excellent hunts the past few years, despite somewhat grim forecasts for bird numbers.

My experience has been that if you can get 1/4 mile away from road access, you will usually find birds if you're hunting decent cover. I always enjoy the walk, the views, the solitude, the wildlife, even when I return to the car with an empty vest. Doesn't hurt to have a good friend along to share the experience -- always my dog, sometimes a brother or cousin or friend.

Looking forward to November 10, my projected first day to hunt ND this year.


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## NODAK1

I have been reading the post on NODAK Outdoors for several years now and this is the first time I've chosen to comment.

I have also noticed a drastic last of participation with regards to pheasant hunting in North Dakota. I am an avid out state bird hunter who has been hunting your great state for the past ten years or so. You have a lot to be proud of from your midwest friendly residents to your beautiful outdoors! It's sad to see participation drop concerning this pheasant hunting forum. it started soon after the bird numbers started to drop and has not recouped since. I also look for material on the pheasant forum to lift my spirits and wet my appetite for more adventure in your great state. I have made many good friends in North Dakota and hope to make more as the years go by.

Hopefully I'll see you out there!
NODAK1
:wink:


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## blhunter3

The pheasants seemed to be very spotty this year. I had a hand in making over 4000 round bales, either cutting or baling the hay. A guy could go 2 miles and see piles of pheasants and then go 5 miles without seeing a single one. The wet fall will prevent a lot of sloughs from being rolled, disked, mowed, or burned. On the other hand, lots of shelter belts and fence lines are being taken out.


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## slough

blhunter3 said:


> The pheasants seemed to be very spotty this year. I had a hand in making over 4000 round bales, either cutting or baling the hay. A guy could go 2 miles and see piles of pheasants and then go 5 miles without seeing a single one. The wet fall will prevent a lot of sloughs from being rolled, disked, mowed, or burned. On the other hand, lots of shelter belts and fence lines are being taken out.


The 5 miles couldn't have possibly coincided with that 5 miles being all soybeans and corn by chance?


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## blhunter3

slough said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The pheasants seemed to be very spotty this year. I had a hand in making over 4000 round bales, either cutting or baling the hay. A guy could go 2 miles and see piles of pheasants and then go 5 miles without seeing a single one. The wet fall will prevent a lot of sloughs from being rolled, disked, mowed, or burned. On the other hand, lots of shelter belts and fence lines are being taken out.
> 
> 
> 
> The 5 miles couldn't have possibly coincided with that 5 miles being all soybeans and corn by chance?
Click to expand...

What would that have to do with anything?


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## GSP yooper

I think what he was getting at was that if that 5 miles where all corn or beans, then maybe the birds where there, but in the crops? I have 11 days to wait for my annual trip to ND, CAN'T WAIT!!!!


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## Crazy Horse RVN

I haven't been back to NODAK for a few years. Life got in the way. I can't make it to NODAK this year as I have a brand new French Britt that is only 16 months old. He's a bit too young for a NODAK hunt. I'll work him out on PA and NJ stocked Quail and Pheasants this season. Maybe even a little Ruffed Grouse in the PA mountains, but look out as next year we'll be rambling about in the Amidon area.

P.S., _is LK's still in business_?


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## Dick Monson

I wouldn't pass on a season at our age.  Ya never know what the next year brings. I got out today for an bit. Wind gusting to 35, +(@!& blowing all over. The green tumbleweeds were breaking off and blowing around. Saw nothing, dogs had no scent, and saw no tracks in the mud around the cattails. I would guess 1/2 the beans are off and the corn won't be started for maybe a couple weeks? The opener is anticipated but the best comes later.


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## Habitat Hugger

Had about the same experience Dick! We got two between two of us, using great diogs, lost non wounded. A couple grouse, too. It was nice to see not one, but TWO large coveys of Huns! I know you can't stockpile game, especially with the barrenization of ND, but we let them go anyway! They need all the help they can get. 
A. Ole weeks ago my dog caught three pheasants in one day, full grown and fully feathered out ones. They seemed unable to fly well. I tried to let them go but they looked pretty weak and thin. Wondered about West Nile, OR, as it was an area that had been hunted very heavily for over thirty years, I'm now wondering a bit about lead poisoning!
Many will scoff, BUT if I fire one load of number 6's and manage to take down a bird, that leaves well over two hundred pellets lying on the ground. Metallurgists tell us that a single lead pellet takes about 150-200 years to degenerate. One number 5 will kill a pheasant when iticks it up mistaking it for a pebble. Overreacting? Maybe, but we know we are " salting" the ground with tons of lead each year.
Only shooting steel for the past few years. Number 1-2-3 does the job just fine.


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## ChukarBob

I'm slowly making the transition to steel, perhaps too slowly. I've got it in my head that I shoot lead better, that the amount of lead deposited in the areas I hunt is insignificant, BLAH BLAH BLAH. Probably just got my head in the sand. Lead's toxicity -- for humans, waterfowl, California condors, etc. -- should be enough evidence.

This year I'll put the lead aside and focus on making good shots on my birds -- pheasant, quail, grouse, partridge.

Not interested in debating anyone on this. Everyone will have to reach their own conclusions. Although our respective states may help us with this decision.


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## kingcanada

Market hunters scattered tons of lead once upon a time. The birds should have all died by the early 20th century if lead "grit" was a true problem with upland birds. Most of the shot finds its way into the ground faster than you might imagine. Go to a popular dove water hole with a clean shoreline and look for spent shot. Good luck finding any even though thousands of rounds get spent there. Also consider the sheer number of pellets in loads using #7.5-#9 shot sizes. Stray shot from pheasant ammo is not a contributing factor in future populations. Shoot steel if you wish, it gets the job done also. It does hurt like the devil to bite into it at mealtime though. As far as birds unable to fly, incomplete breast muscle development is likely present. I have seen it on rare occasions involving a serious lack of nutrition. 
On that subject, pesticides do kill off birds. The first two weeks after an upland bird hatches, a diet almost completely comprised of protein is required. Without it, the chicks die. That protein comes from insects.


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## Habitat Hugger

I'm on the fence about lead, though I don't use it anymore. With lead, less is better and none is best, whether it is paint, shot, gasoline or fragmenting bullets left in a gut pile for raptors to eat.
When I kill something, I want to kill it and not risk collateral damage to some other game animal or bird, even 75 years after I am dead.
I read somewhere the amount of tons of lead shot we sprinkle around every year? Significant? I dunno. You say it goes into the ground faster than you thnk?? Ok, where's the evidence for that? Or that it doesn't for all that matters. We don't know!!!! So why take a chance?
There is some pretty good biological research, out of Utah or someplace, where fledge rates of ground birds, particularly game birds ( easier to count) were compared from heavily hunted areas vs controls, where they made an honest effort to match the nesting conditions up,and all that. I think they pretty well showed that rates were lower in the matched heavier shot over areas. At least their results didn't go the other way! Of course, nay Sayers will simply call it junk science.......and yes ther is a lot of that on both sides of,any controversy, I'll concede........just look at the global warming thing...or smoking back in the 50/ or 60's. LOL

When we had our Shangri La out of Bis, if I invited any guests to come hunt or let anyone on to hunt, I'd supply them with steel shot. Use it or don't hunt! Seemed to kill same number of pheasants. Even still, I was raising trumpeter swans and I had one die of lead poisoning yet it was hatched out and lived all it's life on my pond, nowhere else. Still don't know where the lead came from. I chased cormorants away with BBB steel! LOL

At any rate, personally I still feel with lead, less is beer, none is best! But use what you like.....


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## Habitat Hugger

Also, yes, market hunters used tons of lead, but mainly over water, and for a relatively short period of history. I suspect if you compare the amount of lead sprinkled around in bird accessible areas by market hunters vs us sportstsmen for the next 100+ yars! it would have been relatively small. Yes, some of it disappears in the ground, but lots must sit on the surface for many many years at risk of being eaten by an unwary bird. One number 6 in a young pheasant'ts gizzard is lethal!
Still CRP and Habitat is much more important to all this. Without it we won't be able to scatter lead around! LOL. So vote YES on Measure 5! Had to slip that in.......


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## blhunter3

Vote no on measure 5. Why do North Dakotans want outside interests inside the state?


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## KEN W

blhunter3 said:


> Vote no on measure 5. Why do North Dakotans want outside interests inside the state?


You mean like big oil who donated over $1,000,000 to the no voters? uke:


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Vote no on measure 5. Why do North Dakotans want outside interests inside the state?
> 
> 
> 
> You mean like big oil who donated over $1,000,000 to the no voters? uke:
Click to expand...

Exactly. I see some guys are all bent out of shape because the proponents used robocalls. They got fined $2000. Yesterday at 1:29pm an energy company used robocall to contact me to vote no. Since the guys on fishingbuddy thought it was important that proponents be punished I called the AG office today to issue a complaint. Are we not all supposed to play by the same rules. The company that was for the measure was wrong to use robocalls and so were the people who called me. Fine them both.

Also, many of the proponents like DU are just as much a North Dakota organization as Farm Bureau and Farmers Union. They all have national offices outside of North Dakota.


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## KEN W

I saw some signs along I-94 saying .....vote no to help hunters and farmers.????Whoever is putting these up is obviously not a hunter.Can't see how voting no helps hunting. :huh: :huh:


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## blhunter3

Measure 5 opens on the doors to organizations to buying land, which could hurt hunters.


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## Rick Acker

blhunter3 said:


> Measure 5 opens on the doors to organizations to buying land, which could hurt hunters.


Correct me if I'm wrong guys...The Governor still has the authority to veto all land purchases with this measure? So, this more of a scare tactic from opponents? I'm heading down to the Oakes area in a couple of weeks on business and I have to say I'm dreading at looking at all my former honey holes which are mostly gone.


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## blhunter3

Rick Acker said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Measure 5 opens on the doors to organizations to buying land, which could hurt hunters.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong guys...The Governor still has the authority to veto all land purchases with this measure? So, this more of a scare tactic from opponents? I'm heading down to the Oakes area in a couple of weeks on business and I have to say I'm dreading at looking at all my former honey holes which are mostly gone.
Click to expand...

With bad crop prices forecasted (1-6 years depending on who you read or listen to) CRP will make a small come back.


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## indsport

FYI. The 2014 farm bill bill cuts Conservation Title funding by roughly $4 billion over ten years directly, and that number increases to $6.1 billion under the upcoming automatic cuts to conservation. The 2014 Farm Bill lowers CRP's total acreage cap over five years from its current statutory level of 32 million acres to 24 million acres (a 25% cut). Even if crop prices fall as much as expected, the money is not there in the farm bill. Further, the USDA changes to acceptance criteria pretty much leaves out most of SE North Dakota from much reenrollment in CRP or adding any CRP.


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## indsport

For more information on CRP, Dynamics of Land-Use Change and Conservation in the Prairie Pothole Region of the United States-Environmental and Economic Implications with Linkages to Rural Community Well-Being. It can be found at http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/1800/pdf/pp1800.pdf


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## KEN W

blhunter3 said:


> Measure 5 opens on the doors to organizations to buying land, which could hurt hunters.


County commissioners and governor can veto land buying.So where does this hurt hunters?


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## Duckslayer100

KEN W said:



> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Measure 5 opens on the doors to organizations to buying land, which could hurt hunters.
> 
> 
> 
> County commissioners and governor can veto land buying.So where does this hurt hunters?
Click to expand...

Exactly. The whole land-grab argument is BS. Besides, doesn't a landowner have to want to sell?? Who is holding these guys' hands to the fire and forcing them to sell land for habitat?


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## blhunter3

KEN W said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Measure 5 opens on the doors to organizations to buying land, which could hurt hunters.
> 
> 
> 
> County commissioners and governor can veto land buying.So where does this hurt hunters?
Click to expand...

There is no direction of how and where this money will be spent, other then on clean water and habitat. That is what scares me.


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## Duckslayer100

I pray Measure 5 passes, and that the state implements a CRP-esque program free of Federal strings. Something that's maybe even a little more landowner friendly. I know that was a big issue with federal CRP. We have to find some way to create habitat, and history has shown the only way to do that is flash $$$ in people's faces. No matter how much a farmer preaches stewardship, in the end it's the money that does the real talking.


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## blhunter3

Duckslayer100 said:


> I pray Measure 5 passes, and that the state implements a CRP-esque program free of Federal strings. Something that's maybe even a little more landowner friendly. I know that was a big issue with federal CRP. We have to find some way to create habitat, and history has shown the only way to do that is flash $$$ in people's faces. No matter how much a farmer preaches stewardship, in the end it's the money that does the real talking.


Name a single program either state, federal, or local program that has little strings attached.


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## ChukarBob

Seems to me there are always strings to every transaction, the "quid" for the "quo". It's the nature of transactions, contracts, etc. I expect government programs to have "strings" attached, just as private sector programs have "strings" attached.

Also, I respect the right of landowners to do what is in their own best interests.

But . . . not sure who but the government (you know, the folks we elect and pay to represent our interests) is going to negotiate with property owners around broader public interests, such as habitat restoration / preservation, public access to private property for hunting, fishing and other outdoor interests, etc. Who but the government will set aside or purchase land for other than commercial activity?

I'm old enough to remember when a knock on the door with a polite request got you onto a lot of farm land, and a "thank you" at the end of the hunt maybe got you an invitation to ask again the next time. Those landowners are becoming less and less common. For the hunting community, we really do need a government that recognizes the legitimacy and morality of our hunting interest and will administer programs that allow us without land an opportunity to pursue our passion.

My opinion, but maybe not yours.


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