# "Where Are The Perch?" Going, going,.....



## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Today's outdoor page of the Sunday Forum carries a headlined article, "Devils Lake anglers wonder why fish aren't biting", and goes on to say that the perch take has dropped from an average of 22 fish per day (2 years ago) to 3 per day last year. And it isn't picking up.

"I just want to know what's going on," said Kyle Blanchfield, owner of Woodland Resort on the lakes Creel Bay.

Just a few years ago NDGF floated the idea of lowering the panfish limit in ND to conserve the resource. Devils Lake CVB fought it tooth and nail. They bypassed NDGF by going directly to Governor Hoeven to leave the limit unreasonably high so local bussinesses there could profit selling the public resource. Remember the Perch Patrol? But there is a solution......
The same takers want NDGF to use your license money to fix their problem.........so they can sell more fishing and fatten their pocket. The folks at Devils Lake want NDGF to stock 1,000,000 perch. NDGF says it won't do any good according to the article.

NDGF fishery biolgist Randy Hiltner said "You have to look at stocking like this: Devils Lake is 100,000 acres or more. If we put in 1,000,000 fingerlings, that works out to be 10 per acre. With our mortality rates, all those walleyes and pike out there, hardly any will survive. Of those that do, how many will be caught by an angler?"

Unbelieveable. :eyeroll: News flash for the the takers at Devils Lake: You profited marketing and selling the fishery. You pay for the fix. Out of your own pocket. Leave the NDGF budget alone instead of ripping off the sportsmen again. But then if the takers can do it on waterfowl, why not fish too? Sportsmen can step to the end of the line again, and again, and again.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

I am a firm believer that the Pipestem and Jamestown Res. have some similarities with their crappies. Over harvesting has killed the waters(compared to 2 years ago).


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## rap (Mar 26, 2002)

WOW... :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: interesting aint it? i definitely remember DL putting up a hell of a fight to not lower the perch limit. they said they would lose their busines since people need to keep 50 perch a day to be happy apparently... well, the game and fish is planning on lowering the panfish limit to 20 soon, everyone should send them an email supporting it. i think 15 would be even better..


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Hmmmm, Imagine, some people want to use the resource and not give back. Unbelievable. :eyeroll:


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## fishless (Aug 2, 2005)

This is bad news but not unexpected, Ive been waiting for it to happen.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

One word "*GREED*" uke:

It's not just the resort owners, It's also the IDIOT that thinks he is actually just has to always catch and keep his limit :eyeroll:

Kinda reminds me of those that always must have get a Buck tag or someting is wrong with the Game and Fish :******:


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## range 2 (Feb 10, 2005)

To bad the so called guides and people that over fish didn't think about this years ago. I wrote to the g/f and asked them years ago to lower the limit but greedy people just can't get enough. You could see this at the cleaning station people keep pails of pearch and after the first pail the other "small ones" would jut go in the garbage because they got tierd of cleaning. I live in dl and i see the same pickups out everyday catching fish, what happened to possession limit. I like to fish but until the ones in the freezer are gone i don't need anymore. If we keep listening to the guide and greedy we will continue to have this problem and also with other fish,ie walleyes. I hope and will call game and fish not to stick money into dl let the so called guides put up.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

There is no doubt that a great deal of hunting and fishing income is generated in Devils Lake. I know that they bring many city and business leaders to the legislature every session to lobby for issues that will increase the size of their slice of the pie. Their appearance at the legislature usually carries a big stick.

Anyone have any Idea how many guided and outfitted fishing adventures were booked on DL in the last few years?

I agree that the City of Devils Lake as well as the resort owners and guides, should bear some of the burden, but what about the North Dakota Department of Tourism?? As well as the rest of us that took from the resource.

There is no law in ND that requires Kyle or the City of Devils Lake or anyone else to be accountable for maintaining wildlife populations if they abide by the management regulations of the NDGF.

I do agree it is somewhat hypocritical for Kyle and DL to complain about the low perch numbers when they profit from the public resource.

I know DL gets a lot of fishing pressure in the winter as well as the summer, spring and fall but IMO the perch fell off for a number of reasons and fishing pressure was just one of the factors involved. The article stated that Kyle and others had switched gears and went to the pursuit of walleyes instead of perch. My question would be that the EYE limit has been pretty stable in the proclamation for a number of years in ND. Why did it take so long for the NDGF to decide to address this problem with perch limits. If it was because of political pressure, Shame on them. If it is because on an imbalance within the forage resources in the lake they need to find out why, soon.

Just my two cents worth.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

While I am not a fan of G/O as everyone knows, one really needs to look at the article. The lack of reproduction is the key element here. With the vast acres this body of water has and the amount of structure I really doubt we as anglers really did much to drop the population. I would look more at the explosion of predator fish in the lake. They per fish will do a lot more to the resource than we as anglers.I found it interesting though that they wanted to dump a million fingerling's into the lake. One needs to realize that it is more of a feel good solution. Look back at some of the stocking reports from the 90's and then look at the size of the body of waters they went into. Compare them to DL.

Without natural reproduction perch will not fill that lake nor sustain the level of fishing quality we have come to expect. Now could the G&F do anything to change the reproduction level? Should other lakes around the state been overlooked or not stocked to help DL? If that is the position that Kyle and others take then I have an issue. If they are asking just what can be done then it is fair for them to do so. It is no different than I being concerned about Hobart or Flood or Diamond or for that matter anyone of us who has a body of water we like to fish.

I realize that they take a profit from the fishing, but it is not just those people that are affected. But the commercial side should not be catered to!


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## KB (Dec 1, 2002)

Low blow Dick, you obviously don't know your history of perch limits in North Dakota. I worked hard with our Chamber in Devils Lake to push Game and Fish for the first limit on pan fish of 50 fish per day. The argument against the limit of 50 by Game and Fish at the time was their belief that it was not biologically necessary. When the movement was on for going to 35 or 25 we asked was it biologically necessary for Devils Lake. The answer was no, and that overall it would not positively or negatively impact our lake. At the time the idea was the smaller, newly flooded lakes needed protection. No one from our area was against lower limits for smaller, more vulnerable lakes. Our suggestion was more restrictions on smaller lakes that really need protection, and more liberal limits on larger lakes, and on bodies of water where perch are over populated and stunted. The problem here is we are trying to paint the problem with too large of a brush. I understand the desire here is to maintain a simple set of regulations statewide. Anglers and fishery managers must look seriously at micromanaging some of our waters for perch and other pan fish.

My quote, which you took out of context, from the Forum article, was my answer to the writer's question. What I'm asking for is a better biological understanding of the Devils Lake perch fishery. Our perch numbers are down and no one really understands why. The blame does not fall solely on the shoulders of anglers. Angler mortality is only a part of the puzzle. In the past 10 years our lake has more than doubled in size and grown in volume tenfold. Our lake has the highest density of Pike and Walleye ever. Devils Lake's flooded timber is a natural rookery for Cormorant's, a bird that eats 2 to5 lbs. of fish per day. Is it rude or impolite to ask the experts to focus a little attention on understanding the dynamics of our perch fishery? I personally want to know what factors are holding our perch back from prospering, and if we can manage these factors. If the answer is angling mortality I would be the biggest supporter of stricter limits. By the way Dick, you failed to quote a Forum article 2 weeks ago where I stated, I and the community support lower limits. No wonder, this doesn't fit in your smear tactics. We are not looking for special treatment over other lakes. Creel data shows that resident anglers from all over the state come to enjoy the fishery in the winter and summer on Devils Lake. It is a sad day if the Game and Fish and the anglers of our state don't care why the perch are not thriving on Devils Lake, or are unwilling to support additional research, supplemental stocking, or other efforts to improve a fishery that so many folks from all over North Dakota and elsewhere have come to enjoy.

We have an amazing fishery, one that I have watched and marveled at ever since I was a kid on my Grandma's dock. No one has more respect or feeling of responsabilty to protect it as I do. I'm a 3rd generation lakeside landowner and hope to see it passed to the 4th. Dick, your despicable connotation that all businesses are "rape and pillage" villains and out to make a profit at all costs to the resource is shameful.

Kyle Blanchfield


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## drjongy (Oct 13, 2003)

KB said:


> What I'm asking for is a better biological understanding of the Devils Lake perch fishery. Our perch numbers are down and no one really understands why. The blame does not fall solely on the shoulders of anglers. Angler mortality is only a part of the puzzle. In the past 10 years our lake has more than doubled in size and grown in volume tenfold. Our lake has the highest density of Pike and Walleye ever. Devils Lake's flooded timber is a natural rookery for Cormorant's, a bird that eats 2 to5 lbs. of fish per day. Is it rude or impolite to ask the experts to focus a little attention on understanding the dynamics of our perch fishery? I personally want to know what factors are holding our perch back from prospering, and if we can manage these factors.
> 
> ...your despicable connotation that all businesses are "rape and pillage" villains and out to make a profit at all costs to the resource is shameful.
> 
> Kyle Blanchfield


I have to agree with KB on this one...nobody really knows what is going on for sure with DL perch, but the NDGF should be doing everything to find the real answer(s). I thought a year or two back they were looking at the freshwater shrimp, but I don't recall any conclusions. My personal feeling is that it has to do more with the exploding predator fish numbers.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Hey KB, always good when you chip in.

FBO ran a topic some years ago on lowering the limit of panfish and the question was posed about DL too, and some there wanted an exemption. Might still be in their archives. Interesting reading. As a matter of fact the same question was kicked around in Dakota Country magazine. That question of going to the governor to over rule NDGF's proposal of lowered limits was answered by one of the guides from DL, _that it was a matter of "perception"._ You might even know the guy. Fisherman would be reluctant to come to your fine community if the limit were reduced. I suppose it would have been tough to get AMTRAC loaded up with eastern fishermen, as was going on then.

My points back then, as now, is that most of those jumbo perch that were being marketed so heavily by the takers in Devils Lake, were females with a gazillion eggs. Eggs that went in the garbage. No doubt there were a host of reasons the perch fishery dumped and NDGF will surely find those reasons. Hopefully that report won't be sanitized. If sport fishing pressure has no bearing then ask Governor Hoeven to leave the limit high again.

The very idea that commercial interests that are still selling that resource, *the public trust*, expect all sportsmen to shell dollars to fix this problem by stocking really rankles me. Especially when the takers fought so hard and successfully to keep the limit high. Devils Lake might be big by North Dakota standards, but Mille Lacs and Lake of theWoods went through this already. They should have been good examples to your community when limits were considered.

I'll go way, way out on a limb right now, 2006 New Years prediction: When the pheasant and duck numbers crash, and they will, the takers in the commercial hunting camp are going to howel like a wounded wolf for NDGF and USFW to fix it. At someone elses expense. And forget to admit they were part of the problem.


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## Dave Brandt (Jun 20, 2003)

Kyle,

The most you can accuse Dick of is generalization, other than that he is calling a spade a spade. It seems to me the GO industry used a VERY large brush to paint the resident hunters of ND as greedy in the last legislative sessions. One only needs to look at the constituency of your industry to realize that money is often (not always) the bottom line. For instance, what percentage of your membership of guides and outfitters were busted this last year on huge violations? Lets compare this percentage and severity to that of the average hunting and fishing public and see where the pieces fall.

-Dave B


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

May be when the GO are busy wining and dining the Politicians, they could try to see if they could do some thing about Cormorants, They have hit my trout lake more then once so Know what a few can do, so multiply that by a few thousand and you have a big problem. MN was able to get the OK to shoot so many on one lake last year. Have shotgun and will travel.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

I agree with everyone's points of view here and if anything; commend Dick on doing his part in keeping the subject in the limelight.

I don't think cormorants are solely to blame for D.L.'s low perch population; but these birds have destructed many fish populations in numerous lakes across our state. These birds have grown to huge numbers over the years after they were placed on an extinction list. I believe the cormorant's eligibility to be on the extinction list should be re-examined and hopefully they would be removed from the list. Then laws can be changed to bring the bird down to more manageable numbers that will not bring such havoc to our lakes.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

This is somewhat lengthy. It is from the NDGF website. This is part of the NDGF Strategic plan for wildlife management to the year 2010.

Here is the link http://gf.nd.gov/news/docs/chap1.pdf

After reading this I am a little confused as to Kyle's issues with low perch numbers. It appears to me from reading this that the fishery is in pretty good shape. Maybe not good enough to please everyone....

Maybe the NDGF is all wrong in their report and management plan but until I see report from some other source than a newspaper article I am inclined to go along with the NDGF.

N: DEVILS LAKE FISHERY PROGRAM
History:
Devils Lake is North Dakota's largest natural lake, currently at about 105,000 acres. However, the lake size has fluctuated greatly since glaciation from a high elevation of about 1459 ft msl, the natural spill elevation to the Sheyenne River, to a low of 1400 ft msl. Geologists believe the lake has gone dry and overflowed several times during the past 4,000 years. Historical fishery information on Devils Lake is limited but during the 1880's the lake was reported to be "teeming" with pike. During the next 65 years (from about 1889-1955) there was little fishery information available concerning Devils Lake, likely because it was a period of relatively poor fish populations as water levels were generally
low. Northern pike were stocked in 1967, which is thought to be the beginning of the modern day recreational fishery of Devils Lake. The present day walleye fishery was initiated in 1970. Walleye fingerlings or fry were stocked essentially every year between 1970-2000 but were not stocked thereafter as natural reproduction was relatively consistent with the record high lake levels. White bass were stocked as adults in 1971, and since that time they have thrived and contributed significantly to the recreational fishery. Yellow perch adults were stocked into Devils Lake beginning in 1970 and continued several years until 1978. The yellow perch reproduced and grew to extraordinary size, which led to Devils
Lake being nationally known for its large yellow perch.

Beginning in the late 1990's, all of the recreational fish species in Devils Lake have reproduced to varying degrees due to high water conditions and relatively low salinity levels. Devils Lake has been a major destination for resident and nonresident anglers for over 20 years and angling use, though fluctuating, has generally been high during the 1990's and 2000's. Nonresident use has trended higher in the last decade.
In recent years, national walleye fishing tournaments have been held annually as the walleye population is healthy and the City of Devils Lake promotes the various tournaments. The Devils Lake fishery supports a significant portion of the regional economy. The fishery is not only important from an economic standpoint but also from a recreational one. Throughout North America, diverse recreational fisheries with a
desirable size structure are becoming increasingly rare, which in turn draws more fishing pressure and increases non-resident usage to Devils Lake.

GOAL:
The goal of the Devils Lake Program is to sustain and enhance a diversified fishery.
OBJECTIVES:
STATUS:
In 2004, Devils Lake reached a modern day high elevation of 1449.1 ft msl, covering about 105,000 acres. The fish are thriving due to the extremely high water levels, low salinity concentrations and favorable aquatic habitat conditions. Devils Lake's four main recreational fish species, walleye, northern pike, yellow perch and white bass, are all
naturally reproducing, growing well and providing anglers with excellent, diversified fishing opportunities. Devils Lake is also currently an important source of walleye and northern pike eggs, which are hatched and reared at the two federal hatcheries for statewide stocking.

Objective levels for Devils Lake are obtained from annual netting surveys, angler questionnaire surveys and creel surveys. The population index, which is the weight of quality sized and larger game fish per hour the net is in the water, is obtained by Game and Fish Department netting surveys. For 2000-2004, the average population index was slightly lower than the objective level but was higher than the previous period from 1995-1999. Angler questionnaires provide information on the number of anglers and angler days at Devils Lake. The number of anglers that fish Devils Lake at least once per year continues to increase (nearly 36,000 in 2001-02). Angler use also continues to increase and is relatively high as a 2001-2002 creel survey showed the estimated use at about 1.2 million hours of effort.

Nonresident use has also trended higher the past decade.
Devils Lake currently has an excellent fishery, comprised of a variety of recreational fish species of various sizes. This quality fishery draws in local anglers as well as an increasing number of nonresidents.

ISSUES AND STRATEGIES:
Issue One: Exotic introductions, such as zebra mussel, Asian carp, and curly leaf pondweed have the potential to negatively impact the fishery at Devils Lake. In addition, introduction of common carp from the Hudson Bay drainage is a threat to the long-term health of the Devils Lake recreational fishery.

Strategies:
1. Work with the Western Regional Panel Task Force of Aquatic Nuisance Species to develop a list of potential pathways for introduction (ongoing). (FD)
2. List and prioritize which pathways are the greatest risks for introduction (by2005). (FD, ED,CC)
3. Provide information for periodic intensive checks for those pathways identified above (by 2006). (FD, ED)
4. Modify laws, rules and regulations to provide for more severe penalties for illegal introductions (by 2006). (FD, AD, ED)
5. Inform and educate the public about the potential problems associated with unintentional and illegal introductions by developing and placing signs at ramps at Devils Lake, developing brochures, and writing popular articles (ongoing). (FD, CC)
6. Periodically assess common carp population in the immediate sub-basins to the north of the Devils Lake watershed. Explore and implement (and fund if necessarily) steps needed to ensure carp do not enter into Devils Lake (ongoing). (FD)

Issue Two: The Spirit Lake Nation has claimed that the reservation boundary extends to the north shore of Devils Lake. Should that claim be found valid, the public fishery could be impacted. This also raises the question as to whether the State of North Dakota will continue to manage the fishery.

Strategies:
1. Work with the Governor's Office to provide information and guidance on this issue (ongoing). (AD, FD)
Issue Three: Fishing access is crucial to fishing use on Devils Lake. Use is sometimes limited because of inadequate fishing access.

Strategies:
1. Maintain, at a minimum, the existing number of public access sites (ongoing). (FD)
2. Gather information from creel surveys to determine the amount of use and public need by area (by 2005). (FD)
3. Continue working with local, public, and private entities to identify and gain access to priority sites (ongoing). (FD)
4. Ensure sufficient funding is available to accomplish priority access(ongoing). (AD, FD)

Issue Four: As the level of Devils Lake continues to rise, fish populations continue to change while angler use increases. Devils Lake fisheries management (e.g. stocking/regulations) must be adaptable and should be based primarily on scientificinformation.

Strategies:
1. Conduct fall reproduction sampling annually to determine stocking/natural reproduction success and future stocking needs (ongoing). (FD)
2. Conduct adult population sampling annually to obtain relative abundance, size structure, etc. to determine if future stocking or regulation changes are needed (ongoing). (FD)
3. Conduct miscellaneous sampling when and where needed (i.e. tagging studies, age and growth) (when needed). (FD)
4. Conduct creel surveys every two years to collect biological data and questionnaire information to ascertain angler attitudes and determine angler exploitation (by 2006). (FD)
5. Collect water quality information (ongoing). (FD)

Issue Five: US Fish and Wildlife fish hatcheries are critical to the Devils Lake fishery, especially during periods normal to drought climatology. Any decrease in Federal priorities to support recreational fisheries would have serious impacts to North Dakota's fisheries in general and Devils Lake fishery in particular.

Strategies:
1. Continue providing congressional staff with information needed to make informed decisions in supporting the two federal fish hatcheries in North Dakota (ongoing). (FD, AD)
2. Continue departmental financial support of the federal hatcheries (ongoing). (FD, AD)

Issue Six: If an outlet is constructed and becomes operational, fish loss may become an issue.

Strategies:
1. Ensure an adequate fish screen/barrier is incorporated into any future outlet structure design to minimize fish escapement (by 2005). (FD, CC)


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Good topic boys. I hope the NDGF will set some kind of slot limit on walleyes in ND before we are saying the same thing about them too. Wether its pheasents out west or perch in DL when it turns to **** it's funny to see who gets the blame(NDGF). And Kyle if I remember right it was the perch patrol on Tony Dean that aired a show catching jumbos on Lake Loretta and Loretta was no more after that. Commercial interests are like a cancer that can't be stopped until its too late.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"light pressure, there are no slot limits"

Whatever buddy!

"For the fortunate people who have a passion for fishing, North Dakota's Devils Lake truly is paradise. Spectacular prairie sunrises, the tranquility and quietness of an undeveloped lake and world class fishing await you. Mitchell's Guide Service would like to invite you to the Devils Lake region and welcome you to partake in some of the best fishing available anywhere. Excellent walleye fishing. Exciting action for bruiser northern pike. Jumbo perch and monster white bass are waiting for your line. Because of light fishing pressure, there are no slot limits, no closed seasons and reasonable limits. 
Mitchell's Guide Service is the lakes region's Largest, Busiest, and Most Respected Guide Service. We are a staff of eight professional guides who use a a team work approach to find and stay on fish. Nobody fishes Devils Lake harder than Mitchell's Guide Service."


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Great Post Kyle, thanks for calling Dick out on this. He loves to take cheap shots whenever possible it his only defense,he has nothing else and loves to spin whenever possible. He claims its all the Hopitallity people of Devils Lake fault and they should pay. I always appreciated a place to stay and good places to eat let alone excellent bait shops when I ventured to the big lake. Over the years I saw many residents leave with pails of perch,and may I say more residents than nonresidents. But as always blame the guides for all the problems in this state. Mr. Brandt claims we painted the resident hunter as greedy, I ask you Mr Brandt when and where? He says we are bunch of violators,well I know of 2 outfitters busted. I wonder how many on this site have been arrested for things also. How many would also get busted if they were under the microscope we are. You claim money is the bottom line, its clear you know nothing about buisness. Well I'm going to go out on the limb also and make my 2006 predictions. One year from now the same bunch here will be crying how everything is the guides and nonresidents fault. Safe bet things never change here,


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## duckslayer (Oct 30, 2003)

Good post Kyle. It will never be the guides fault. No way. They have it just as tough as everyone else. Its hurting their business by not catching these "jumbo perch." Its hurting everyone elses ego by not catching a limit. Fishing is fishing, i cant control it, you cant either. Play by the rules, try your best, whatever happens happens.

Oh yeah, and Dosch, why is it that your always picking on a guide or outfitter from the lake region? Are you jealous because you cant make your living doing what they do or what?

My 2 cents: The lake is HUGE, the perch are SCATTERED, probably why we have been catching perch steadier west of grahams island than ever before! How many nets do the game and fish put out, where do they put them. This lake is so big, those perch could be concentrated in schools of hundred in the middle of nowhere, in almost every area of the lake. Face the fact, its just not as easy as it used to be.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Duckslayer(clifton)

I think if you try real hard and keep kissing *** KB someday will take you under his wing. And about the big ego's and catching fish well thats what tournament fishermen are for, I bet you even have a couple stickers on your truck.

Jealous? no way. When its all said and done I'll know what side of the fence I was on.

Have a good day and let minny walk on.

Local team finishes first in tourney
The team of Tyler Staloch, left, and Kyle Clifton, right, of Minnewaukan won the 2005 Casino Cup Walleye Tournament held this past weekend on Devils Lake at the Spirit Lake Marina, bringing in a two day weight of 46.75 lbs. 
and taking home $5,000 in cash. The two-day fishing event was a huge success, according to Spirit Lake Marina director, Daniel Lohnes, center. 
Sixty-seven teams participated and came from as far away as Minnesota and South Dakota. $16,470 was paid out in the tournament, with the top 15 teams being paid. Staloch and Clifton also advance to the Big Show in September to also be held at the marina. The second place team of Jeff Trana of Devils Lake and Rick Darling of Leeds received $2,500. Their total weight was 46.23 lbs. of walleyes. Third place and $2,000 went to the team of Dennis Andruski of East Grand Forks, Minn. and Larry Zimmerman of Napoleon. 
Their total weight was 45.04 lbs. Darling also took home a cash prize for catching the third biggest fish which weighed 8.2 lbs. The largest walleye caught in the tournament weighed 9.55 lbs. Others from this area finishing in the money were the teams of Keith Pierson of Minnewaukan and Scott Steckler of Mandan, Charlie Bisbee of Leeds and Paul Larson of Rugby and Clint Devier and Randy Myers of Devils Lake. The marina will host the FLW Outdoors Tournament June 15-18. The 5th Annual Spirit Lake Marina Walleye Classic Open will be Sept. 3 and 4 with a $10,000 first place prize, followed by the Big Show Sept. 17 and 18.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ceq/fish2005.html


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Dean Outdoors
Issues
Devils Lake Chamber Manager Speaks Out

Hi Tony,

As always it was a pleasure having dinner with you and Paul the other night here in Devils Lake. I always learn something new and interesting from your well researched insights. We had just a short time to discuss some of the challenges facing our tourism promotion that is dependent on hunting and fishing in our area and I know, fair or not, we in Devils Lake and other communities who promote this type of tourism are seen by some of your viewers as the enemy. I thought if you would allow me the space I would give our perspective.

I am Randy Frost, Executive Vice President of the Devils Lake Chamber of Commerce/Tourism. I have had the great pleasure of leading our chamber for the last 8 years and what a roller coaster ride it has been. Six out of the last eight years we have been under a Presidential Disaster Declaration because of lake flooding.

This situation is nothing new to residents South Dakota who have been suffering under similar problems from yearly flooding. This flooding has presented some significant problems for us but our organization and community did not sit around and feel sorry for ourselves. Instead we made an effort to make lemon-aid out of lemons. We took our expanding lake and the wonderful fishery and began an aggressive marketing effort. We did not just promote perch fishing. We have tried to promote every specie and have a long history of promoting a conservative approach to fisherman's daily and possession limits. It was our organization that was the driving force in establishing the first limits in this state on perch.

Yes we opposed the most recent effort by the fisheries division of the Game & Fish Department of a 50 daily & 100 in possession perch limits. We did it because our research/survey of the fisherman visiting our area indicated they would not travel the 1,000+ miles to Devils Lake for such a restrictive possession limit. We have competition between here and their state with a similar daily/possession limit. If it would have been a biological issue we would have been first in line to support their effort.

I have a great deal of respect for Terry Stienwand and the whole fishery crew in North Dakota but on this one issue I think they are succumbing to social pressure. I know he is concerned about some of the smaller lakes in the south which have been over-fished during hot bites. Fishing pressure has changed dramatically in the last three years on any body of water because of how quickly fisherman have the news by way of the internet. This is presenting a huge challenge to fisheries biologist. A one size fits all approach to management may be a thing of the past. I believe that they will have to be prepared to establish regional and maybe lake specific regulations quickly to manage and protect resources.

This type of management comes at a price and we support additional dollars to be spent to support our fisheries division.

The Devils Lake perch fishery is in outstanding shape, the sheer size and ample forage in the form of fresh water shrimp make attaining a high daily or possession limit unlikely for most. Fisherman, regardless of their state of origin, like to believe they can beat the odds and be in the right place at the right time. Taking relatively liberal numbers of perch in most waters is not biologically detrimental and for some lakes may even improve the quality of the fishery where stunting from excess reproduction can become a problem.

Something to think about...It seems ironic that we do not have a freezer limit in North Dakota for our resident fisherman. If they believe excess taking of any specie could be detrimental, why is there no outcry from them to address this potential abuse and over harvesting of fish of every specie?

I would be interested to see the position of the Game & Fish Department on the responsible storage and harvesting of this important resource. My guess is they will not because it is politically a hot potato for their agency.

In North Dakota resident fisherman far outnumber non-resident fisherman and I am getting the impression that conservation is often for the other guy but does not apply to residents. Maybe we don't have a harvest problem in North Dakota and instead tourism surrounding fishing and hunting is just an easy target these days.

Our organization is committed to the long term quality of our fishery, our tourism industry and community. Tourism development can be done at the same time we protect and enhance opportunities for our state's resident fisherman.

If Tony would allow me the space I will discuss some of the issues related to non-resident hunting caps from the perspective of a rural regions like Devils Lake sometime next week. If you would like to contact me personally my e-mail address is [email protected].

We are an organization committed to responsible, sustainable development and we invite people to communicate their ideas and comments. We do listen and our policies can change. Hope to see you in the field or on the water.

P.S. Fishing has really been picking up lately for perch,walleyes and Northern Pike. Tony, thank you for this opportunity to explain our side of the issue.

Sincerely,

Randy Frost

Tony responds:

Anytime, Randy. And it was good to see you. As you know, we enjoyed great fishing in spite of a progression of fronts...fishing good enough to allow this old fisherman a real trophy, a 3-12 white bass. We will look forward to future comments from you.

Tony Dean


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Maybe the GNF should add an additional fee to guides and outfitters for supplemental stocking.


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## Dave Brandt (Jun 20, 2003)

G/O

Unless you never attended any advisory board meetings or legislative testimony, or read any of the multitudes of letters to the editor in the past 5 years, I have a hard time understanding your question. That was one of the main slanders used: ND resident sportsman (especially those dang urban people) are just greedy and don't want to share our state with nonresidents. While some resident hunters may feel this, I assure you that the majority of those who choose to be active in this fight care about the future of our resources for everyone participating (I personally could care less where they were born or what their mailing address is). Lets face it, Dick, yourself, Kyle, myself, etc. will have good opportunities in our lifetime, but what about the generations to come? That is what we are fighting for.

As far as being put under a microscope, while not politically correct, profiling works. Wildlife enforcement agencies have learned over the last century where to focus their efforts and unfortunately it is your industry. ND is 20+ years behind the rest of the country in the commercialization arena so they have plenty of good templates to look at.

You are correct, I don't know much about business, money has never been that important to me. Instead I chose to make less money doing something I was passionate about and got a degree in wildlife biology so I have a fair knowledge of the history of resource management. One of the basic principals thereof is managing sportsman activity relative to available resources (pressure if you will) towards a desired outcome. Given how out of whack ND is in certain realms as compared to the rest of the country, if our desired outcome is to end up like Texas or Arkansas 50-75 years from now, I would say we are definitely on the right track.

If money is not the bottom line for the majority of those in your industry, why have all the people I know that were once guides and outfitters (more than a dozen) told me they got out because they hated the fact that it was driven by that very thing? I know I could make plenty of extra money myself guiding, businessman or not, I just can't force myself to whore what I love.

While not a businessman, I am pretty sure of one thing, if I were, I would consider previous history a predictor of future performance. This may help explain why the G/O industry has the reputation it does.


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## duckslayer (Oct 30, 2003)

dosch, i bet i do have a sticker on my truck. It reads www.nodakoutdoors.com if your really that interested. Whos kissing ***, I dont need KB to "take me under his wing."

Tournament fishermen have "big egos"? We fish tournaments for fun, what does a big ego have to do with anything?


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Big ego's are compensation for one's short comings..... :lol:


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Guys, let's stay on topic here WITHOUT personal attacks.


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## rap (Mar 26, 2002)

"Yes we opposed the most recent effort by the fisheries division of the Game & Fish Department of a 50 daily & 100 in possession perch limits. We did it because our research/survey of the fisherman visiting our area indicated they would not travel the 1,000+ miles to Devils Lake for such a restrictive possession limit."

it's a sad day when 100 perch posession limit is a "restrictive possession limit"


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## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

I say drop the limits. I'm sick of having great lakes to fish, and then in two years there not worth anything to fish. I know it's more than just fishermen, but I think we can certainly make a dent. I don't think it would hurt Devils Lake as much as they think it would. They might lose a little business, but I bet most travel up there to have a good time and if they catch fish, that's a great bonus! I remember being at Lake Darling when it was hot and seeing buckets of fish taken out. Some buckets with five to six inch fish. What kind of filet can you get out of that? Doesn't matter what limits are, guys should only keep what they are going to eat period. Same with shooting birds in the fall...some guys shoot over 100 birds in the fall. I know most actually use it but I know some don't either...to me that is a waste and a lack of respect for the game you hunt or fish!


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

There is no doubt in my mind that the guy in charge of Devils Lake Tourism knows a lot more about fisheries and their viability than any of those idiot biologists. Those guy at the game and fish dept don't know anything. In fact, I think that we should just let the guy from Devils Lake run the game and fish dept. I bet he would do it for free. This isn't about money you know. Surely he wouldn't want the limit higher just to promote his town. I am sure he has the welfare of the perch fishery at the top of his list as I am sure he would with ducks, geese, etc. Lets just end this farce of a game and fish dept we have, they aren't needed!!! :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: uke:


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

dosch (Steve): Just a question. Do you treat your brother with the same respect you treat Kyle with? They are both in the same profession only your brother just guides for ice fishing.

I don't know Kyle, but know Jeff pretty well. He is a good guy. I just wonder why his brother would post the stuff you do when he is trying to make a living for his family. I guess I am a little confused.

On another note, as a new resident to this area, it is sad what the DL Chamber is doing. They have really forgotten about the people who live here. Seems they dont' want to count the gas I put in my hunting rig or the hunting and fishing equipment purchased down at Gerrells (Gerrells rules by the way).


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

I don't have a problem with people being guides. I do have a problem with people who lease land to guide or do whatever it takes to fatten their wallet at the expense of others. I hunt and fish with Jeff all the time,he has his life I have mine. And don't give me the providing for his family story that small town ND uses all the time he'd do just fine with or without guiding. And it's funny how I'm the guy who disrespects the guides well I look at it like they are disrespecting the last frontier. Like I said before when it's all said and done I'll know which side of the fence I was on. If you want I'll give Jeff a hug for you.


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## Ithaca1 (Nov 24, 2003)

I believe there are a number of factors affecting the perch fishing in Devils Lake:

1. Predator to Prey ratio/relationships-large numbers and age classes of walleye ad pike preying on perch

2. The perch population has not caught up to the rapid growth in size of the lake

3. Freshwater shrimp populations are extremely high

4. Spawning success/habitat in refenece of proper water temps during spawn

5. Overharvest by angling

We look at the Red Lake crappies in MN. They big age classes of crappies that made the lake a world class crappie fishery are dying of old age. The point here that there is so much water out there in Red Lake that does not get fished that angling is only affecting a small part of that population.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

There are likely many reasons that the perch fishery is suffering. However not imposing a limit is like the mugger in the alley kicking the victim after he is down. Overfishing becomes a reality when the population suffers whether or not the initial detriment to their population was fishing.
The g/o's remind me of a cartoon that hung in the place I work back in the 1970's. It was a picture of two old guys holding up some ducks. One fellow is saying to the other "we were sure lucky to get these bas#$##ards they are nearly extinct".


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

The commercial wildlife takers demand that the resource match the limit rather than the limit match the resource. A key differance in my opinion. That is why they bypassed NDGF expertise by going to Governor Hoeven to over rule the proposed limit restriction. Period.

g/o proposed a splendid idea of restoring the possession limit to include a "freezer possession limit". We had it once but it was negated to only cover transportation. If his boys are serious about co-operating on legislation, the ND Wildlife Federation is holding their convention in Bismarck Jan 21st. g/o, I can't speak for them, but I believe they would be happy to stand firmly beside you in pursuing the goal you stated. Possibly the outfitters are also interested in stiffer fines and mandatory sentancing for game violations? To preserve the resource. Very easy to make the contact now. And get an agreement in place. Great idea.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Why does GREED keep coming out when we talk about limits. Where I fish it is 2 (two) walleyes a day. So at the end of the day me and the bride have 4 (four) fish. Enought for the two of us.

There is too much emphisis placed on getting your limit :******: whether it is ducks, geese, pheasants, deer or fish. uke:

I thought it is all about the EXPERIENCE :eyeroll:

Manage the resource for our Grandchilderen........................


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

I guess you and I will agree to disagree. I think the income your brother gets from guiding does help him and his family and I believe they need it or he wouldn't be doing it. Hard to shingle a roof when it is -10 degrees out.



> And it's funny how I'm the guy who disrespects the guides well I look at it like they are disrespecting the last frontier.


Because anytime Kyle gets on this site, you are like an attack dog on him.

I know what side of the fence I am on. You are right, the guides doing it to fatten their wallet at the expense of our natural resources shouldn't be doing it. And I concur with the most of the ideas presented here on this site. If you haven't noticed, G/O and I have gone quite a few rounds on this site.



> If you want I'll give Jeff a hug for you.


That would be nice.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)




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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

In the south central area of North Dakota we have had great perch fishing in a number of lakes such as Dry Lake, Flood Lake, Goose Lake, Hobart Lake and numerous other lakes by Lehr, Streeter and Gackle. All of these lakes were grossly overfished without guides by common everyday fisherman. I find it hard to believe that with the small number of people who are guiding in the Devils Lake area relative to the huge number of fisherman who have fished the Devils Lake basin pretty much for twelve months out of the year that they are the reason for the decline in perch fishing in this lake. The common everyday fisherman is much more sophisticated than they used to be with the equipment that is available and how many buckets of perch have been taken by these everyday fisherman relative to the guides? No limit perch fishing probably worked in the past but I think the Game and Fish is starting to see the light and moving their perspective on fishing pressure to the new millenium. The cause is not singular for this issue nor any of the other issues that challenge management of the natural resources in North Dakota. We are all guilty and so when your finger is pointing......


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## Ithaca1 (Nov 24, 2003)

It is called exploiting the resource:

Internet
Tv Shows
Magazine Articles
Advertisments
Devils Lake Jumbo Perch Toilet Paper


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

To me guiding on a lake like devils lake and profiting on the resources without owing the lake a cut of those dollars seems soooo wrong. I know i'm off base from the topic, but i don't care.

Do you think if I were a investment advisor, real estate broker, etc., and walked in and said "yeah this is great office space, whats the price." do you really think the reply would be "we have a great customer base, i'll send them all to your office, use all the resources our building and business uses and feel free to do it free of charge, no rent, no fees required."

Seems a bit ridiculous doesn't it. And the worse part is guiders contribute to lessining public resources for an absurd charge. Granted i'm sure some give something back to their community, however, what did the lake do to get used like that...like a cheap hooker.


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## NDJ (Jun 11, 2002)

I doubt it is angler overharvest alone that has caused the poor perch bite the last few seasons....wish I knew what was.

Lake size???
forage base???
hungry pike??
hungry comorants???
fisherman???
no production???
something else???

hopefully the pros at the G&F can figure something out...


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

cormorants...hate em!!!

hungry pike...machines!!!

lake size...i would think it makes them harder to find???

Nature is a beautifull thing. It always seems it has a way of working itself out....if given a fair chance.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

I was lucky to catch perch in several southern ND lakes before the
general public got wind of the slaughter. When I mean slaughter,
it was amazing to see people come out of the hills to fish for the
1st time to catch JUMBO perch. I also swear that people in Wisc
can sense a bite in a 5 state radius. In ONE year two of the lakes
where completely cleaned out!!!! Did some fish go to waste,
probably, but the fish would have never survived several winters
due to the drought.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

It isn't to hard to sense a bite. It is called the internet! We haven't had any winter to speak of since 97 that would cause a fish kill in any of these lakes.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Sorry DJ,

But this "bite" was before the internet crazy or this website.

Try again.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

If we are talking about the lakes that I mentioned in my post, well they have been on the fishingbuddy.com website from it's beginning whenever that may be. With all the out of state hunters that frequent that same part of the state hunting waterfowl and upland game it is not too hard to see how word of good fishing spreads across state boundaries. If we are talking about some other lakes well then I cannot speak for them.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

DJ,

Nope, none of those lakes.

FYI, Dry/Goose is not close to Streeter or Gackle,
I will give you Lehr to the north.

I would consider close towns to be considered Ashley,
Danzig, Venteria and Wishek.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> I find it hard to believe that with the small number of people who are guiding in the Devils Lake area relative to the huge number of fisherman who have fished the Devils Lake basin pretty much for twelve months out of the year that they are the reason for the decline in perch fishing in this lake.


That small number of guides at Devils Lake had the ability to set the limit of panfish for the whole system, when they intentionally bypassed NDGF by going directly to Governor Hoeven. Had the limit been placed at the recomended NDGF level, that slaughter by greedy sportsman would not have continued. What did they suppose would happen?

One aspect that has not been addressed is poor water quality in the lake. Pea soup. The ND Wildlife Federation has always been a strong supporter of clean water issues. Maybe I missed it but I can't recall the commercial takers ever addressing water quality issues in Devils Lake. The Federation is deeply concerned about high mercury levels in all of North Dakota's waters. How about the commercial takers position on mercury? So let's co-operate on these issues too.

How about it g/o, can you round up the interested folks on your side who are looking for solutions? Let's meet soon. Let's get some legislation set up. The Federation is meeting on the 21st, so let's get going. Doesn't have to be g/o, KB is fine. Get'er done.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

OK, I am confused. Maybe the other guides weren't pushing for lower limits, but wasn't KB pushing for lower limits years ago?

Was it not the Chamber that went around NDGF and went to Hoeven.

Like I said, I am confused.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

PSDC, what is your point? Back to the original discussion, I think that for some lakes a lower limit is the solution but the major problem with perch lakes used to be that there were way to many perch and the fish were stunted so they needed to be overharvested. It almost seems that lakes need individual management goals rather than a blanket limit for the entire state. This does seem to be the trend for lake management in Minnesota for some species but may need to be a trend for North Dakota lakes. I don't know how practical it is for every lake in North Dakota but would probably be worth a try in a lake such as Devils Lake.


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## duck shagger (Mar 3, 2006)

WE HERE IN WISCONSIN HAD SIMILAR PROBLEMS WITH OVER FISHING OF PAN FISH,WHEN THE FISH WERE HITTING GUYS WERE OUT DAY AFTER DAY KEEPING 50 A DAY JUST CAUSE THEY COULD, THEN WHEN IT CAME TIME TO MAKE ROOM IN THE FREEZER GUESS WHAT GOT THROWN IN THE GARDEN? THEY LOWERED THE LIMIT TO 25. THE PROBLEM STILL EXISTS BUT IT IS LIMITED A LITTLE MORE. I MYSELF WILL KEEP ENOUGH TO EAT A FEW MEALS AND CATCH AND RELEASE THE REST, I HAVE TRIED TO TEACH MY 4 KIDS THE SAME .


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