# new hevisteel - data for B's and 4's



## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

One of the retailers has the new Environmetal Hevisteel offered.
The load is only 12 ga, 3", 1 1/8 oz at 1500 fps. BB, 2, 4, 6.
Comes in at $190 for a case of 250.

It's 75% steel, 25% tungsten - 15% heavier than steel. Hevishot is 54% heavier than steel - so this is something in the middle.

Anything else coming out in time for our season?

M.


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## Ryan_Todd (Apr 11, 2004)

that sounds like some good stuff. too bad it wasn't a little cheaper. they have an article about it in the new wildfowl mag.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Wow - according to my tracking number, Hevisteel is supposedly shipping already! It only gained final approval on like Aug 16th... I was expecting a few more weeks at least. I'll even get a chance to pattern it now.

Its not too much more than steel - $19 per box of 25 (shipping was like $9 for 2 + cases). Its a lot more affordable than hevishot or bismuth, and its gotta be better than steel moving at the same speed (1500 fps). ( I hope...)

M.
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## Ryan_Todd (Apr 11, 2004)

maybe i'll have to buy a box and check it out. macks pw has great deals on winchester loads in the new catalog. a case of 3 1/2 BB's supremes for $169 and cases of xpert for $69.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

150% more expensive for 15% more weight? Don't see the "bang for the buck" there. And I thought we were underpaying our higher education instructors? :wink:


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Personally, I only shoot gold plated, but I thought this would be good for the prols... 

150% more expensive than Xpert - but on par with other premium steel loads. I thought you loaded, so you should know how these cheap promo loads are put together and why they aren't a bargain. I think of it as 1/2 the price of hevishot, while providing most of the improvement.

I believe that 15% density will make a difference - easily go up a shot size, filling the pattern. At 1500 fps - still have the energy to penetrate at 40 yds. 15% velocity is big to you 1350 vs 1500, but velocity is only part of the equation to be balanced with everything else.

I jumped on high velocity steel at the start too, so I might as well jump on this bandwagon and see what it is. New is ALWAYS better, ask my kids.

M.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Mark,

No, I haven't loaded for years. And, okay, I'll wade into the "best load" cesspool again. I don't shoot promo stuff, but have a source for getting good duck loads for under $8/box and good goose loads for about $10/box. Not the best quality shot I've seen, but much better than a lot, even some of the supposed "premium" stuff.

Ignoring for the moment the debate over any perceived/actual down range lethality benefits of speed, speed can actually have an adverse affect on pattern densities, especially with poorer quality shot. The faster a "pocked" or otherwise untrue sphere flies, the greater the knuckle-balling effect, which translates directly into more "fliers" and a less dense pattern. The fast promo loads, with high speed and really poor shot, especially when opting for the larger of acceptable shot sizes and the corresponding lighter payload, are a most violent train-wreck for any pattern geek.

That said, if I could achieve even minimally higher down-range speed without sacrificing necessary payload with BBB's for longer, large goose shots, I'd find a hopped-up brew with really high quality steel and I would. Who wouldn't? But, alas, I don't think it can be done. We tried a bunch of different stuff, and we could never make CONSEP extreme (but still acceptable) range minimum pattern densities with 12 ga. fast BBB loads (i.e. 3.5 ' 1 3/8 oz). There simply aren't enough pellets to hold minimum pellet counts at the edge. We got close with increasingly super tight chokes, but couldn't tweak that any further because the tubes weren't holding up to the large shot. The notion of "blowing the pattern" with tight chokes and large shot did not play out for us at the pattern board. Blowing out the tubes was the problem. It could be done with BB's, which would be easier on the tubes, but for this CONSEP groupie, BB's for large geese at extreme ranges isn't allowed.

Mark, Quack, GG, Ken and others will know the context of these comments, because we've mutilated several dead horses on the topic before, but before some others jump on me about the ethics of range selection, I understand and generally follow. When playing with patterning, I always test for the extreme ranges, because despite our loftiest goals, sooner or later we're going to take a long shot (i.e. 60 yards), especially on follow-ups on nicked birds. Because of the cone shape of a pattern, if you can achieve all the "lethality" factors at extreme ranges, you're ultra "lethal" at more normal ranges. Sure, with dense patterns, you'll flat out miss some birds at closer ranges, but I'd rather miss clean or stone 'em more and cripple less.

If you like to shoot 3" duck loads, with a little choke work, minimum CONSEP pattern densities at extreme acceptable ranges with deuces can be done, even with the faster stuff. Again, however, tough, maybe impossible, with #1's.

I hadn't considered the shot size factor of your analysis, and what you said about being able to up a size # because of the 15% does make sense. If price isn't a huge consideration and you're a patterning nut, you may have found the way to balance several factors and hit the CONSEP numbers (if they offered a #3). But, if price truly isn't a consideration, I don't think heavyshot has an equal. It's the absolute best of all worlds, except the pocket-book factor.

On the shot size logic, seems like the optimal heavysteel size would be #3. Did you buy deuces or fours? Post back your patterning results.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

There is no best load, just a lot of stuff ranging from "crap" to "a compromise". Find the best compromise and go. I don't think I can even hand load good duck loads for $8/box anymore.

I am conservative on distance, so I went with 4's, but I was thinking 6's. I push it less and less - I'm just as happy to say the birds won that day. Depending on how things go, I may not even shoot much this year as I'm starting my son (and cooking sausage, flipping pancakes, serving coffee....)

I think strung out patterns are the problem with steel (think 3-D cloud rather than 2-D disk). With enough velocity steel penetrates great, but still doesn't consistently stone birds like lead or hevishot. I'm hoping hevisteel is a cheap step towards hevishot performance.

One might consider hevishot's "over performance" - 4's will pass right through a duck within 30 yds (so will steel 3's at 1700 plus). That added performance is wasted, but required some compromise (pattern, recoil, shoes for the kids). Hevisteel might balance that compromise a bit better.

M. 
(This is all wild rationalization for dropping a huge chunk of change of shell's no one has ever seen before, but I'll still argue the point - ask my wife.)


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Hevisteel exists. It has a green high base hull, much like Rem. It has a rolled crimp with a clear overshot card. It is buffered with a white grex like stuff. The shot looks normal, a little more grey than shiney.

Anyone want to pattern it for me?

M.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Let us know how it works. After this season all of my steel shot reloading components will have exited the barrel. Then it will be on to more costly and lethal alternatives in subbore guns. I'm thinking it would be fun to shoot ducks with a 28ga over under.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

MRN said:


> Anyone want to pattern it for me?
> 
> M.


Sure, shouldn't take any more than, say, 250 rounds to get a good sample. Let me know when you want to drop that shiney, new case of duck whompers off. :beer:


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Gees, I thought you'd at least offer to pick it up.....


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## Ryan_Todd (Apr 11, 2004)

i'll come pick up a case from ya and i'll let you know how it patterns towards the end of the season. :lol:


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

I was thinking more like 5 or 10, but then I'd have to let you use my gun too.... I'm sure there is some inter-state problem involved here.... Mike Hatch might sue me..... But I appreciate your offer. Thanks 

M.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Here's some data:

I got them in 4's and B's (was supposed to be BB's but hey)
Both contained almost a perfect 1 1/4 oz of shot (instead of 1 1/8).

4's - had 210 pellets - that were pretty uniform, but the size looked more like 6's than 4's. They compare load size/weight to #5 lead.

B's - had 95 pellets - the size was all over the place and it looked more like welding slag (like hevishot does). They compare in load size/weight to BB lead.

Man, it's gonna be like shooting lead (for like double the price.....)

Hope the info is helpful to someone's decision making.

M.


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## Guest (Sep 3, 2004)

Quick question for you guys that know so much about these different "shot". I've seen Hevi-Shot, it looks like crap, almost like oblonged and uneven balls of mush. How can that be the key to so many great kills?? I would think it'd suck, so much differences in shot sizes in each shell. Just a question guys, no need to jump down my throat. Thanks.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

You're right - looks awful. But it works. Shape probably matters more
when density goes down - this stuff is so dense that the light little air molecules don't bother it too much.

M.


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