# No Plugs



## snowgoosekilla1

Has anybody heard about ND being able to have plugs out for the early Canada goose season?


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## 6162rk

hope not


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## CrazyWalsh81

I've heard rumors, but you won't see anything until the season season proclamation is out in Aug.


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## snowgoosekilla1

6162rk said:


> hope not


Why not?


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## 6162rk

three shots at one time are enough. how many more species are we going to degrade? look at what the special seasons have done for any species that have one for it. that species is thought of as nothing more than vermin. is everyone in such a hurry to shoot a limit? we have a generation that is spoiled by special seasons, special rules, etc. enough is enough.


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## blhunter3

6162rk said:


> three shots at one time are enough. how many more species are we going to degrade? look at what the special seasons have done for any species that have one for it. that species is thought of as nothing more than vermin. is everyone in such a hurry to shoot a limit? we have a generation that is spoiled by special seasons, special rules, etc. enough is enough.


I agree with him. 15 birds is already a lot of meat.


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## shooteminthelips

Probably got to disagree on this one. They have the season to kill more birds. The season went to 15 birds because things are still out of control and the population was getting higher. Even more so then snow geese 6 guys with extensions can definitely kill more birds especially on honkers because they work different then snow geese. Honkers come in low and take longer to get out of range then a snow goose. I would like to see unplugged before I see more nest and egg drilling.


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## CrazyWalsh81

X2, 15 Birds is alot...but how many hunters ever actually shot a limit last year? I only know of a few and it was small groups of guys. There were a few days I could have shot more birds if I had more shots, I don't think I need an extention...but have 5 shots would add more birds every day.


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## blhunter3

Why not kill the birds before the damage is already done?


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## snogeezmen

blhunter3 said:


> Why not kill the birds before the damage is already done?


BL hunter...think outside your box please..... you kill more birds this year........thats less birds nesting next year.....

tell me how is that not "killing" them before the damage is done? its a lengthy process wont happen over night. more shots more kills less birds. seems alright to me. if you dont want 15 birds dont shoot em pretty simple. :beer:


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## fieldgeneral

shooteminthelips said:


> Probably got to disagree on this one. They have the season to kill more birds. The season went to 15 birds because things are still out of control and the population was getting higher. Even more so then snow geese 6 guys with extensions can definitely kill more birds especially on honkers because they work different then snow geese. Honkers come in low and take longer to get out of range then a snow goose. I would like to see unplugged before I see more nest and egg drilling.


X2 :beer:


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## blhunter3

snogeezmen said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not kill the birds before the damage is already done?
> 
> 
> 
> BL hunter...think outside your box please..... you kill more birds this year........thats less birds nesting next year.....
> 
> tell me how is that not "killing" them before the damage is done? its a lengthy process wont happen over night. more shots more kills less birds. seems alright to me. if you dont want 15 birds dont shoot em pretty simple. :beer:
Click to expand...

Kill them before them damage the crop.


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> snogeezmen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why not kill the birds before the damage is already done?
> 
> 
> 
> BL hunter...think outside your box please..... you kill more birds this year........thats less birds nesting next year.....
> 
> tell me how is that not "killing" them before the damage is done? its a lengthy process wont happen over night. more shots more kills less birds. seems alright to me. if you dont want 15 birds dont shoot em pretty simple. :beer:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Kill them before them damage the crop.
Click to expand...

Why? You lose over $34k a year in crop damage from geese but show no effort in trying to prevent it, so it apparently isn't all that important that the birds get taken care of.

South Dakota tried to pass no plugs, won't be happening nor will shooting half hour after sunset.


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## blhunter3

So scarecrows, boomers, flags, rimfire rifles, and shotguns isn't attempting to chase them away?

Please tell me what more we can do?


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> So scarecrows, boomers, flags, rimfire rifles, and shotguns isn't attempting to chase them away?
> 
> Please tell me what more we can do?


 :roll: Want some subsidies with those while were at it?

I'd like to see you jump back into this thread and actually answer the questions that still remain directed towards you from multiple users.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=104020&start=40


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## ATA BOY

6162rk said:


> three shots at one time are enough. how many more species are we going to degrade? look at what the special seasons have done for any species that have one for it. that species is thought of as nothing more than vermin. is everyone in such a hurry to shoot a limit? we have a generation that is spoiled by special seasons, special rules, etc. enough is enough.


I agree, sure wish other "sportsmen" would understand what you are talking about.


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## snogeezmen

ATA BOY said:


> 6162rk said:
> 
> 
> 
> three shots at one time are enough. how many more species are we going to degrade? look at what the special seasons have done for any species that have one for it. that species is thought of as nothing more than vermin. is everyone in such a hurry to shoot a limit? we have a generation that is spoiled by special seasons, special rules, etc. enough is enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, sure wish other "sportsmen" would understand what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

i agree with both of you, but i believe the "degrading" of this species happens when "landowners" like BL ***** and moan about geese but then contradict it by saying 15 is too many to kill. either there a varmit and lets treat em like it or there not and stop moaning about the damage they cause. BL you cant have yor cake and it it too. whatll it be?


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## jpallen14

If the point is to reduce numbers of resident canada geese with the use of hunters lets do it. Why have a 15 bird limit but restrict guns to hold three shells??? Makes zero sense. Increased cripples is not a valid point if you have ever hunted in August. ND and SD GFP is spending over a million dollars of goose dep a year with fencing, paying landowners for buffer strips, spring season, kill permits, drilling nearly a 1,000 nests in SD on public land...... but wait... wait........ they'll draw the line when in comes to allowing guns to have more than three shells during the early season. I don't get it.


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## snowgoosekilla1

Why? You lose over $34k a year in crop damage from geese but show no effort in trying to prevent it, so it apparently isn't all that important that the birds get taken care of.

South Dakota tried to pass no plugs, won't be happening nor will shooting half hour after sunset.[/quote]

How do you know that South Dakota will have to have their plugs in? I heard that they could have their plugs out.


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## the professor

snowgoosekilla1 said:


> How do you know that South Dakota will have to have their plugs in? I heard that they could have their plugs out.


the state GFP commission killed the recommended rule changes for unplugged guns and 1/2 hour after sunset due to a few dipshizts that apparently have never hunted geese. Commission finalized the season at the last meeting a few weeks ago. Reasoning for killing the plug rule was that a few people worried about cripples and that having more shots would turn hunting into "nintendos" what ever the F that means. 1/2 hour after sunset was killed because somebody worried that hunters wouldn't be able to identify geese in the twilight during "bad weather." What other bird flies into a wheat field at sunset and has a 5 foot wingspan and makes a "honk" sound?????? :withstupid: :withstupid: :withstupid: :withstupid: :withstupid:


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## blhunter3

themaskedmallard said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So scarecrows, boomers, flags, rimfire rifles, and shotguns isn't attempting to chase them away?
> 
> Please tell me what more we can do?
> 
> 
> 
> :roll: Want some subsidies with those while were at it?
> 
> I'd like to see you jump back into this thread and actually answer the questions that still remain directed towards you from multiple users.
> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=104020&start=40
Click to expand...

Putting up and taking down a fence isn't worth the hassle when you are planting in the spring and then in the fall you are combining, putting down fertilizer, and ditching. That is due to having to farm around them, and then the you cannot control the water table so you will be constantly moving the fence. Have you ever had to deal with woven wire fencing before? Have you ever had to fence before?

Buffer strips are a good idea too, except that cannot control the water table, so a farmer will have to be planting and replanting every year when you should be planting your crop.

Go operate a farm and get back to me on what I should be doing on our operation.


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## 6162rk

permanent fence above the high water mark. don't be greedy. people farm next to fences all the time. what's the problem? how many times do farmers have to be told?


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## snogeezmen

blhunter3 said:


> 6162rk said:
> 
> 
> 
> three shots at one time are enough. how many more species are we going to degrade? look at what the special seasons have done for any species that have one for it. that species is thought of as nothing more than vermin. is everyone in such a hurry to shoot a limit? we have a generation that is spoiled by special seasons, special rules, etc. enough is enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with him. 15 birds is already a lot of meat.
Click to expand...

I agree BL that fencing, buffer strips are not the perfect solution but if you so dam concerned about geese you wouldn't have e made the above statement. So I ask you do you want hunters to help reduce more geese or not? If so why wouldn't you support no plugs? Please enlighten me from your farmer perspective please


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> themaskedmallard said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So scarecrows, boomers, flags, rimfire rifles, and shotguns isn't attempting to chase them away?
> 
> Please tell me what more we can do?
> 
> 
> 
> :roll: Want some subsidies with those while were at it?
> 
> I'd like to see you jump back into this thread and actually answer the questions that still remain directed towards you from multiple users.
> viewtopic.php?f=5&t=104020&start=40
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Putting up and taking down a fence isn't worth the hassle when you are planting in the spring and then in the fall you are combining, putting down fertilizer, and ditching. That is due to having to farm around them, and then the you cannot control the water table so you will be constantly moving the fence. Have you ever had to deal with woven wire fencing before? Have you ever had to fence before?
> 
> Buffer strips are a good idea too, except that cannot control the water table, so a farmer will have to be planting and replanting every year when you should be planting your crop.
> 
> Go operate a farm and get back to me on what I should be doing on our operation.
Click to expand...

So if it's not worth the hassle then why should you receive assistance from the GF&P? You can say all day long that it's because they apparently are entirely responsible for bringing back the goose, but you know that is not true. If it's not worth your time it shouldn't be worth their time either. Like I said in the other thread your losing the amount of money millions of people in the United States make in an entire year, but yet it's just not worth the hassle? With the way everything is handed to farmers nowadays it's no wonder that you can disregard losing that much money. :roll:

Once again you completely avoid the fact that Electric Fencing for geese is proven effective if done correctly and will not take nearly the amount of time your woven wire fence would to dispatch in the correct way. You are so stuck in some dream world that only consists of woven wire that you can't look outside the box at the electric fencing.

I don't need to operate a farm to use what's called common sense, and you make enough posts for everyone on Nodak to decipher and use as a guide on how to be the best farmer in the Dakota's. Your posts make you come off as a very greedy/lazy farmer. Also if you have such a major issue with geese doing damage, I find it very ironic and hypocritical that you scream for the birds to be taken care of somehow yet don't support a 15 bird/no plug regulation. Explain that.


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## blhunter3

When do you put up the fence? How to you prefer the crop from grounding out the electric fence?

How is every handed to farmers? Please explain that one to me.

I do not see the need to allow unplugged guns because I don't think a person needs more then 3 shells.


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## snogeezmen

blhunter3 said:


> When do you put up the fence? How to you prefer the crop from grounding out the electric fence?
> 
> How is every handed to farmers? Please explain that one to me.
> 
> I do not see the need to allow unplugged guns because I don't think a person needs more then 3 shells.


BL I respect a persons opinion, and that's fair but.........

please look at "our" opinions you *****ing and moaning about geese, would rather receive government assistance in the form of eradication, subsidies etc etc rather than the taxpaying citizens put 2 more fuc*king shells in their guns?? come on man. yeah yeah I wont have food without you I get it.... Id like to see how you do without your handouts


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## jpallen14

Put the fence up whenever you want. Early June or as geese move into your crop. It isn't rocket science. Call the GFP. SD GFP puts up 100s of miles of the stuff for landowners a year.


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## ATA BOY

jpallen14 said:


> If the point is to reduce numbers of resident canada geese with the use of hunters lets do it. Why have a 15 bird limit but restrict guns to hold three shells??? Makes zero sense. Increased cripples is not a valid point if you have ever hunted in August. ND and SD GFP is spending over a million dollars of goose dep a year with fencing, paying landowners for buffer strips, spring season, kill permits, drilling nearly a 1,000 nests in SD on public land...... but wait... wait........ they'll draw the line when in comes to allowing guns to have more than three shells during the early season. I don't get it.


I understand what the season is for but where do you think they should draw the line. Why not let people use rifles to shoot them, why not let people shoot out the car window, why not let people spot light them at night, after all there just a junk bird anyway? See where I am coming from? I grew up never even seeing a Canada goose in the east part of South Dakota where I live. When Spencer Vaa told my dad he was going to try and start the goose program and shut down the dark goose season for a few years we thought great, the only dark geese we had come through here were a few Hutchies. When Spence retired he told my dad at his retirement party that he wished he would have never started the Canada goose program because of all the b**** from the landowners. Pretty sad if you ask me. So now the new hunters coming up think that they are a junk bird just like the snow goose. He also said if the state could go back to a tag system for a few hunters they would, so that should tell you what they would really like to see for numbers in the state. I guess I would just like to see them treated with a little respect.


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## snowgoosekilla1

ATA BOY said:


> jpallen14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the point is to reduce numbers of resident canada geese with the use of hunters lets do it. Why have a 15 bird limit but restrict guns to hold three shells??? Makes zero sense. Increased cripples is not a valid point if you have ever hunted in August. ND and SD GFP is spending over a million dollars of goose dep a year with fencing, paying landowners for buffer strips, spring season, kill permits, drilling nearly a 1,000 nests in SD on public land...... but wait... wait........ they'll draw the line when in comes to allowing guns to have more than three shells during the early season. I don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand what the season is for but where do you think they should draw the line. Why not let people use rifles to shoot them, why not let people shoot out the car window, why not let people spot light them at night, after all there just a junk bird anyway? See where I am coming from? I grew up never even seeing a Canada goose in the east part of South Dakota where I live. When Spencer Vaa told my dad he was going to try and start the goose program and shut down the dark goose season for a few years we thought great, the only dark geese we had come through here were a few Hutchies. When Spence retired he told my dad at his retirement party that he wished he would have never started the Canada goose program because of all the b**** from the landowners. Pretty sad if you ask me. So now the new hunters coming up think that they are a junk bird just like the snow goose. He also said if the state could go back to a tag system for a few hunters they would, so that should tell you what they would really like to see for numbers in the state. I guess I would just like to see them treated with a little respect.
Click to expand...

The resident Canada Geese are "junk birds" thats why they are trying to do so much to kill them, on the other hand the ones that migrate when into Canada our not "junk birds" thats why the limit is only 3.

So now I don't understand why it's so bad to have unplugged guns. Because of all the cripples....they will die which is what the G&F wants, or because thats too much meat?...don't shoot your limit. If you want to hunt with your plug then go ahead and do it, while the rest of us don't it's that simple.


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## jpallen14

ATA BOY said:


> jpallen14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the point is to reduce numbers of resident canada geese with the use of hunters lets do it. Why have a 15 bird limit but restrict guns to hold three shells??? Makes zero sense. Increased cripples is not a valid point if you have ever hunted in August. ND and SD GFP is spending over a million dollars of goose dep a year with fencing, paying landowners for buffer strips, spring season, kill permits, drilling nearly a 1,000 nests in SD on public land...... but wait... wait........ they'll draw the line when in comes to allowing guns to have more than three shells during the early season. I don't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> I understand what the season is for but where do you think they should draw the line. Why not let people use rifles to shoot them, why not let people shoot out the car window, why not let people spot light them at night, after all there just a junk bird anyway? See where I am coming from? I grew up never even seeing a Canada goose in the east part of South Dakota where I live. When Spencer Vaa told my dad he was going to try and start the goose program and shut down the dark goose season for a few years we thought great, the only dark geese we had come through here were a few Hutchies. When Spence retired he told my dad at his retirement party that he wished he would have never started the Canada goose program because of all the b**** from the landowners. Pretty sad if you ask me. So now the new hunters coming up think that they are a junk bird just like the snow goose. He also said if the state could go back to a tag system for a few hunters they would, so that should tell you what they would really like to see for numbers in the state. I guess I would just like to see them treated with a little respect.
Click to expand...

When the state is drilling eggs on public land with sportsman dollars and running a spring season, respect and ethics from the top wildlife leaders in the state has been thrown out the window a long time ago. If you're worried about respect of the bird, using more than three shells should be the least of your worries.

Your comparison between using five shells in a shotgun vs. rifles out of windows is terrible at at best.

You would rather the GFP drill a few thousand eggs, many on public land than have no plugs during early season? Huh, weird definition of respect for the bird.


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## shooteminthelips

I talk to countless farmers that say that shoot hundreds a year with high powered rifles and .22 rifles. This is a population issue not a situational issue. BLhunter like always you are being a moron, you don't even own any land personally but your family does. Adding extensions and having early season with a big bag limit is an attempt to control the over all "population" and not the situational stuff that pops up. The have "situational" programs for that in place too, which include permits for you to kill those geese with high powered rifles. If you want to argue situational stuff then start a new thread. This thread is about how can we control the population using hunters who will use the meat and do things right. Extensions are a tool just like a layout blind, ecaller, flyer, robo, constricted choke etc..

A 10 shot extension in the hands of a hunter, on decoying flocks of Canada geese, will kill more geese plain and simple. If it didn't work or help then why would they allow it in the spring? Would you rather have people driving around shooting them with riffles or laying in the decoys with extensions mowing them down at 15 yards? My group of 10 killed 77 geese in one day last fall in your area in ND BLhunter. Now if we would have had extensions on that day with the size of flocks we had committed to the decoys we could have shot our 150 easy. That is a 50% increase and a major dent in your areas flock of geese. Or you could drive around with your riffle and shoot 1 or 2 a field with a rifle before they wise up and run in the grass or fly away. Take your pick. Fix the problem long term or keep things how they are. And extensions are just another tool that help us get things back in hand.

I just find it funny how someone who has no skin in the game is the voice of a farmer. If you went to any farmer with a goose problem and said I have a way to kill more geese without devastating the nesting of the bird they would be all for it. We don't know the long term effects of egg drilling, will it keep geese from nesting all together? It could..


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## 870 XPRS




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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> When do you put up the fence? How to you prefer the crop from grounding out the electric fence?
> 
> How is every handed to farmers? Please explain that one to me.
> 
> I do not see the need to allow unplugged guns because I don't think a person needs more then 3 shells.


You can put the fence up right after planting, while the crop is coming up, when the geese start doing damage etc. Really whenever you please. How do you prevent the crop from grounding out the electric fence, it doesn't take anyone with even basic electrical knowledge to know that you have the fence so it isn't touching the crop, duh. Pretty easy to figure out how far the crop may grow out and put the fence there. God forbid you use a little thinking. You make it seem like such a complex process my mind is blown.

Everything might not be literally handed to farmers but I don't see anyone barely scratching it by in this day and age. Subsidies and Crop insurance that I get to help pay for every year are a good place to start, barely scratches the surface.



shooteminthelips said:


> . BLhunter like always* you are being a moron*, you don't even own any land personally but your family does.
> 
> I just find it funny how *someone who has no skin in the game is the voice of a farmer.* If you went to any farmer with a goose problem and said I have a way to kill more geese without devastating the nesting of the bird they would be all for it. We don't know the long term effects of egg drilling, will it keep geese from nesting all together? It could..


Agree 100%, as I'm sure 99.9% of everyone on Nodak would too.


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## Gunny

ATA BOY said:


> 6162rk said:
> 
> 
> 
> three shots at one time are enough. how many more species are we going to degrade? look at what the special seasons have done for any species that have one for it. that species is thought of as nothing more than vermin. is everyone in such a hurry to shoot a limit? we have a generation that is spoiled by special seasons, special rules, etc. enough is enough.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, sure wish other "sportsmen" would understand what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

How would *you* control the over population of Canadas and Snows? What is "your" definition of a "Sportsman"?

Clearly the "three shots is enough" argument holds no water when discussing controling overpopulation of geese. Hasn't worked since the inception of a "special" or "nuisence" season. Populations continue to rise. To me, one of the definitions of "sportsmen", is that of a guy doing his best to respect and appreciate the critter you are persuing. Drilling holes is not respecting said animal. Smashing eggs is not respecting said animal... God forbid we get an overpopulation of deer. Does beware...The G&F will be walking around with baseball bats.

We are hunters. Let us hunt them. Why is it taboo to respectfully harvest an animal that are clearly at an all time high in numbers?

We are talking 2 more rounds...

Why is it Ok for snows, and not for Canadas...?

How has the extra seasons and extra rounds, with virtually no limit effected the overall population of snows...?

I see an arguement to stop the problem before it starts. The question I would ask is, what comes first, the chicken or the egg?

What is more "respectful" of a goose? Kill it before it hatches, giving it no fighting chance of survival... forced goose abortions...?

Or giving a healthy bird the chance to live, if it can make it through the gauntlet...?

On "too much meat"... with all of the people in this country that are hungry... I would like to think we are smarter than that. Worse case...I can't eat it all... my dogs love goose meat... it saves me $ at the store, and is far more healthy than bagged food.

Not that hard when we think outside the box with respect to said birds...

Side note... I will not now, nor will I ever, have a mag extension on my shotgun, and 3 rounds is fine with me... If we are talking about how to stop the over population of a "sport" animal, action is what we need... not *****ing...

*****ing only makes one look like a... well...


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## Mike Kortum

Everyone keeps trying to compare this situation to snow geese.... "well we can do it for snows, why not canadas?".... thats bc the overpopulation of snow geese is a real problem, they are destroying their breeding grounds and potentially an entire ecosystem. The canads on the other hand, their "overpopulation" isn't even a real thing. Its completely made up by a small segment of the population that lose a couple of plants bc of them.

The current population of canada geese should be marveled at and celebrated as one of the greatest conservation stories ever told. Not scoffed at and demonized.


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## KEN W

:thumb:


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## fieldgeneral

Mike Kortum said:


> Everyone keeps trying to compare this situation to snow geese.... "well we can do it for snows, why not canadas?".... thats bc the overpopulation of snow geese is a real problem, they are destroying their breeding grounds and potentially an entire ecosystem. The canads on the other hand, their "overpopulation" isn't even a real thing. Its completely made up by a small segment of the population that lose a couple of plants bc of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The current population of canada geese should be marveled at and celebrated as one of the greatest conservation stories ever told. Not scoffed at and demonized.
Click to expand...

Now your talkin' Mr. Kortum!


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## clint_hay

personally....even if they did give the go ahead in SD for unplugged guns, i do not think it would of done much of anything. the limit is still 15, its just going to make the hunter shoot his limit faster.


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## themaskedmallard

clint_hay said:


> personally....even if they did give the go ahead in SD for unplugged guns, i do not think it would of done much of anything. the limit is still 15, its just *going to make the hunter shoot his limit faster.*


So killing more birds in less time and probably shooting into less birds making a field huntable for potentially a longer duration wouldn't kill more birds? Strong logic.


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## ATA BOY

Mike Kortum said:


> Everyone keeps trying to compare this situation to snow geese.... "well we can do it for snows, why not canadas?".... thats bc the overpopulation of snow geese is a real problem, they are destroying their breeding grounds and potentially an entire ecosystem. The canads on the other hand, their "overpopulation" isn't even a real thing. Its completely made up by a small segment of the population that lose a couple of plants bc of them.
> 
> The current population of canada geese should be marveled at and celebrated as one of the greatest conservation stories ever told. Not scoffed at and demonized.


This is the best post I have ever read on this forum, wish other people could understand what you are talking about. :beer:


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## jpallen14

ATA BOY said:


> Mike Kortum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Everyone keeps trying to compare this situation to snow geese.... "well we can do it for snows, why not canadas?".... thats bc the overpopulation of snow geese is a real problem, they are destroying their breeding grounds and potentially an entire ecosystem. The canads on the other hand, their "overpopulation" isn't even a real thing. Its completely made up by a small segment of the population that lose a couple of plants bc of them.
> 
> The current population of canada geese should be marveled at and celebrated as one of the greatest conservation stories ever told. Not scoffed at and demonized.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the best post I have ever read on this forum, wish other people could understand what you are talking about. :beer:
Click to expand...

I think most do understand but at least in SD farmers have GFP eating bread crumbs out of their hands. I think many don't have a clue on what GFP is doing to reduce numbers using non-hunting methods


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## jpallen14

Folks against plugs please answer.... Would you rather remove plugs in Aug. or have GFP drill eggs on public land to reduce numbers? One is already being done.


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## Buck25

jpallen14 said:


> Folks against plugs please answer.... Would you rather remove plugs in Aug. or have GFP drill eggs on public land to reduce numbers? One is already being done.


X2 How stupid is it we have ppl running around drilling eggs in the spring then come fall they got you in the binos making sure u don't go one over your limit!? These ppl are getting paid with our license purchases...how dumb?

I'm an early season goose hater. Shooting geese in August is the lamest form of Waterfowl hunting by far. That being said I know their are a lot of ppl that like it for some reason. And as far as I'm concerned they should have no plugs and no limit. Until the g&f stops killing babies on our dollar because the farmers are SO POOR... 
Hunters should be able to use no plugs and have no limits.


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## water_swater

With all the great hunters in the world I'm surprised anything is left flying in this world! Nobody here thinks they suck at hunting yet these bird populations still keep growing!


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## 6162rk

i am not against plug removal as long as the resource that is harvested is consumed. when i say consumed i mean by humans not thrown in the ditches and sloughs. not cooked for the dogs or dropped off at the local zoo. if you just want to kill stuff join the egg drillers and walk up to the nest throw the eggs in the air and shoot them with your 5 shots. please leave a couple eggs for the goose to sit on so she doesn't renest.

the growth of the canada goose population in this part of north america is nothing but amazing. most of you on here would not like the way it used to be. they are not damaging anything that can't be replanted or covered by insurance.


----------



## ATA BOY

jpallen14 said:


> Folks against plugs please answer.... Would you rather remove plugs in Aug. or have GFP drill eggs on public land to reduce numbers? One is already being done.


Plugs or no plugs, GFP will keep drilling until we are down to the one tag system again. Do you really believe their counts, I sure don't? They use this inflated number to do the things they are doing to lower the population to what they really want. I don't hunt the summer season anyway so the no plug thing doesn't effect me.

It comes right down to worrying about the few cry babies that think they deserve a hand out. If the numbers ever get to what they truly want there will be plenty of trailers loaded up with stickers for sale in Eastern South Dakota, or the registration trailer in Pierre wont be able to hold all the people in the morning.

6162rk good post!


----------



## fieldgeneral

You know, the Goose population has boomed in recent years, but so has the incomes of farmers, big time. I, for some reason have little sympathy for them. The money they have been reeling in is amazing, so to lose some ground to wildlife is part of the game when you sign up for farming. Back in the mid 2000's corn was going for around 2 dollars a bushel, now I believe it was 7 some dollars a bushel last year! I am a hunter and love shooting birds and all the newonces that come with it as far as decoying, seeing migrations and so forth.... all in all the numbers of waterfowl in this world are doing little harm to the landscape. It is the people that are ruining things. I vote no plugs by the way. :thumb:


----------



## jpallen14

6162rk said:


> i am not against plug removal as long as the resource that is harvested is consumed. when i say consumed i mean by humans not thrown in the ditches and sloughs. not cooked for the dogs or dropped off at the local zoo. if you just want to kill stuff join the egg drillers and walk up to the nest throw the eggs in the air and shoot them with your 5 shots. please leave a couple eggs for the goose to sit on so she doesn't renest.
> 
> the growth of the canada goose population in this part of north america is nothing but amazing. most of you on here would not like the way it used to be. they are not damaging anything that can't be replanted or covered by insurance.


SD has Sportsman Against Hunger, all geese killed during the early season can be donated at many meat lockers. Less waterfowl gets wasted during the early season then the regular because of it. Good try though


----------



## Chuck Smith

Field.... You better bite your tounge. For two reasons....
# 1...to say farmers are making loads of money is kind of false. Just the past two years have prices been high and possible again this year. Before that prices were stable. Look at info below and that is from the USDA and it is the Minneapolis board of trade for yellow number 2 corn. I didn't take the time to dig for older data (2000-2008) but I remember corn being around the $2-$4 range. Also you are forgetting what imputs have done....cost of rent, fertilizer, fuel (look what fuel/diesel has done in price), seed, pesticides, etc. Those have not decrease in cost.

http://www.ers.usda.gov/datafiles/Feed_ ... able12.xls

Year: - - - - - - - - Average:	
2009/10 - - - - - - - - $3.71
2010/11 - - - - - - - - $6.55
2011/12 - - - - - - - - $7.37
2012/13 - - - - - - - - $7.11 (as of May pricing)

# 2.... This is the big one. You are sure helping our cause as hunters to bridge landowner and hunter gaps. I am sure the first thing out of your mouth when you go and ask for permission to hunt is... BOY you made an a$$ load of cash and I don't feel sorry one bit that the geese are eating 10 acres of soy beans. How is the government aid that I gave you....etc. :eyeroll:

Now we all know that the farmers have had two really good years with prices and good crops. They are making money.... Good for them. It is like if someone who also has a good year in sales, getting a raise, a bonus, etc. Good for them. I know some will say that it isn't fair because of the government programs and subsidies that get paid to them. Well until that problem isn't fixed I say good for them and Shame on US and our Government. It isn't like they are complete free loaders. They still do work, put in a crop. they only get paid if the crop is below a set level....ie bushels per acre or the price drops. It isn't like they get record crops and a record price that they still get paid. Unless they are fudging numbers. If they are....that is against the law and fraud.... I am just saying.

So if any farmers are on this site and read my message and like what I am saying. Please PM me. I will be out in ND shooting geese again this fall and I would love to help you with your goose problem. I had to give myself a little plug... Since this topic is about "PLUGS"...lol.. :beer: BTW... I have no opinion on the no plug. If it is allowed.... I will take my plug out. If it isn't allowed so be it.


----------



## 6162rk

jpallen14 said:


> 6162rk said:
> 
> 
> 
> i am not against plug removal as long as the resource that is harvested is consumed. when i say consumed i mean by humans not thrown in the ditches and sloughs. not cooked for the dogs or dropped off at the local zoo. if you just want to kill stuff join the egg drillers and walk up to the nest throw the eggs in the air and shoot them with your 5 shots. please leave a couple eggs for the goose to sit on so she doesn't renest.
> 
> the growth of the canada goose population in this part of north america is nothing but amazing. most of you on here would not like the way it used to be. they are not damaging anything that can't be replanted or covered by insurance.
> 
> 
> 
> SD has Sportsman Against Hunger, all geese killed during the early season can be donated at many meat lockers. Less waterfowl gets wasted during the early season then the regular because of it. Good try though
Click to expand...

jpallen14,

do you have any numbers on the amount of birds processed by these meat lockers?


----------



## jpallen14

In 2011 a little over 2,000, can't find numbers for 2012. In 2011 I believe you could donate for either Aug or Sept season but it wasn't for both. 2011 was also the first year you could donate so amny didn't know about it. The daily limit was 8 then. In 2012 the limit was 15 and you could donate during both Aug and Sept seasons. I would assume almost double would have been donated in 2012.


----------



## Gunny

Yeah... 'cause feeding my dog with high quality meat, when I have an abundance is such a bad thing... :eyeroll: 
Why should he partake in something he worked his *** off for as well? 
Thats your hang up... unfortunatly I don't care...

You claim that the canada "problem" is fabricated? That they dont need to be controled until what...? they are in the same boat as the snow population? I find that extreamly short sighted. You may not like it, but that doesn't make it any less true.

The boom in The Canada population IS a good thing. It DOES show what conservation can do to help out a species. Like the wolf pop. However, killing anamals is part of conservation as well. We must have the ability to regulate populations of anamals before they get out of control (hence the "snowgoose argument"). So we have to look at the best choices to regulate the explosion of geese, and the fact they no longer follow the traditional migration we are so used to. There are now, more than ever, birds that just don't leave. They stay all winter long, as they can find open water and food all winter long.

This is not about the "blood on the doors" type hunting. It is about the pop boom, the loss of hunting lands and the most effective way of dealing with it BEFORE we have a serious problem.

That said... count me out on any hunting where I need to wear shorts, and am still too hot to care about the hunt.


----------



## Duckslayer100

We're always going to have conspiracy theorists, and there alway will be folks dead set on their opinions. Plugs or no plugs. Daily limits or no limits. E-collars, high-powered rifles, whatever. I've researched this topic fairly extensively, and it helps with everyone's perspective if they know history:

By the 1950s, because of overhunting and loss of habitat, the giant Canada goose, the species now some on here are referring to as "junk birds," was thought extinct. Like dinosaurs, mammoths and do-do birds. Gone. Kaput. Nil.

That is, until 1965 when a researcher by the name of Forrest Lee helped discover a tiny remnant flock of giants near Rochester, Minn. Lee moved to Jamestown, N.D., where he headed the Prairie Wildlife Research Center's Canada goose restoration program. From 64 breeding pairs, approximately 6,000 geese were produced and released across 26 North Dakota counties. That number has blossomed to 400,000 today -- well over the 80,000 birds the G&F would like to see.

Part of that is due to a Canada goose's adaptability. They, like many of their waterfowl cousins, have learned not only to survive on a heavily manipulated and farmed landscape, but thrive. The farmers who hate them are unwittingly setting a banquet of sustenance ideal for packing on the pounds and growing big, healthy birds. Not only that, but the birds produces from this process are learning to hone in on the same areas. So the resident Canada geese born here, are coming back here and starting the process over and over and over again.

We're genetically engineering a species dependent on farming. And today, there is more farming being done than ever before! That's more food for geese! Get the picture?

This from a Canada goose species people were remembering fondly of hunting prior to 1950-65.

Think about that for a second: what would today's hunting world be like without giant Canada geese, and especially resident flocks? When did the first early seasons really get rolling? Mid to late 90s, right? When did you start seeing the popularization and overall industry standardization of things like flags, layout blinds, decoy trailers, fullbody decoys, and all the things we so covet today? Belive it or not, without surging populations of giants and early seasons, our current waterfowl industry would be a shell of its current self. You would all have only regular seasons and would have to wait for smaller subspecies of Canada geese to migrate through just to get a honker. Heck, those would be more like specks in that there would be less of them, so not many people would actively hunt them. Everyone would be a duck hunter. Period. Or there would be a heck of a lot more snow goose killers out there to help fill the void now being taken up by resident Canada geese.

We take so much for granted. In Fargo, I see Canada geese almost every day at some point, and they always bring a smile to my face. And if I sit and wonder long enough about what it would be like never seeing them, it makes me happy to live during an era when I can target them specifically and have great success.


----------



## Gunny

To call any game animal "Junk" makes me sick...


----------



## 6162rk

ndg&f would like to see 80,000 instead of 400,000. right now there is competition for fields with birds. can you imagine what it will (or would) be like with a reduction to 80,000?

back when these birds were introduced (same thing was done in minnesota) the farmers welcomed them because they had a tie to nature on their land. if there were to many of something they would harvest it and eat it. now so many farmers see the land for tillage, planting, spraying and harvest. other than that they are not there to see nature or do they really care about nature. as far as many of them are concerned all that it is more profit lost.


----------



## Gunny

6162rk said:


> ndg&f would like to see 80,000 instead of 400,000. right now there is competition for fields with birds. can you imagine what it will (or would) be like with a reduction to 80,000?
> 
> back when these birds were introduced (same thing was done in minnesota) the farmers welcomed them because they had a tie to nature on their land. if there were to many of something they would harvest it and eat it. now so many farmers see the land for tillage, planting, spraying and harvest. other than that they are not there to see nature or do they really care about nature. as far as many of them are concerned all that it is more profit lost.


Umm... That's thier job... that's what a farmer does to make money...

This has nothing to do with farmers, other than the fact that if they ***** about the degradation of their crops, and then refuse to let hunters on... they are morons.

This is about controling a population growth/boom, BEFORE we can't stop it... i.e. Snow geese.


----------



## 6162rk

my point was the farmers are on those fields for very few hours a year. they are corporate farmers. they don't give a rats arse except about more money. enough will never be enough. if you really want to stop the population before it supposedly gets out of hand don't ever close the season and throw the rule book out the window. why can't I shoot them now?


----------



## blhunter3

What do you consider a corporate farmer?


----------



## shaug

Duckslayer100 wrote,



> By the 1950s, because of overhunting and loss of habitat, the giant Canada goose, the species now some on here are referring to as "junk birds," was thought extinct. Like dinosaurs, mammoths and do-do birds. Gone. Kaput. Nil.
> 
> That is, until 1965 when a researcher by the name of Forrest Lee helped discover a tiny remnant flock of giants near Rochester, Minn. Lee moved to Jamestown, N.D., where he headed the Prairie Wildlife Research Center's Canada goose restoration program. From 64 breeding pairs, approximately 6,000 geese were produced and released across 26 North Dakota counties. That number has blossomed to 400,000 today -- well over the 80,000 birds the G&F would like to see.


Not all people think they are junk birds. Some thought highly of them and farmed them. The source of todays beautiful giant canada goose.

From the USFWS:

Restoration Programs in the Mississippi Flyway
Even before the giant Canada goose had been extirpated from the lower 48 states, private citizens and conservation agencies began expressing interest in restoring these birds to their former breeding range. Ironically, the 19th century practice of capturing and domesticating wild Canada geese to use as food and live decoys, a practice that contributed to the population's demise, also provided a source of birds for restoration projects. Efforts to establish small, free-flying, self-sustaining flocks of giant Canada geese began as early as the 1920's in Michigan and 1930's in Wisconsin, Ontario and Minnesota (Table 1). In 1936, H. M. Wallace of Howell, Michigan, gave the offspring of geese he obtained from a game breeder in Owatonna, Minnesota, to the Seney National Wildlife Refuge (NWR), Michigan, to establish a local flock (Hanson 1965). Offspring from Wallace's birds were also used to start a flock at Barkenhausen Preserve in Wisconsin in 1932 and to stock the Michigan DNR's Mason State Game Farm. The Seney NWR geese eventually made their way to Agassiz NWR, Minnesota, to be used to restore goose populations in their state of origin. During the 1940's and 1950's, agencies in Wisconsin, Manitoba, Minnesota, Missouri and Ohio brought giant Canada goose restoration programs on line. In the 1960's state agencies in Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana and Tennessee joined the restoration effort while the U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) initiated programs to establish nesting populations of giant Canada geese on national wildlife refuges in Mississippi, Tennessee and Alabama. These projects were soon followed by state's efforts to establish populations of giant Canada geese in Kentucky, Arkansas, Alabama and Mississippi in the 1970's and 1980's.


----------



## Duckslayer100

shaug said:


> Not all people think they are junk birds.


That was my point.


----------



## Gunny

6162rk said:


> my point was the farmers are on those fields for very few hours a year.
> 
> You mean the land they own...?
> 
> they are corporate farmers.
> 
> Says you...
> 
> they don't give a rats arse except about more money. enough will never be enough.
> 
> Your opinion, but it sounds like the American dream to me... Or we could consider a huge land grab. Hunting only, no grains shall be planted, as farming is only, and all about, the hunting... Good thing you're above making however much $$$ you can. Shall we forward this to your boss so he understands you feel like you make too much and could use a pay decrease. That way he can charge his customers less and everybody can sing kum-ba-ya and la-ti-da... :roll:
> 
> if you really want to stop the population before it supposedly gets out of hand don't ever close the season and throw the rule book out the window.
> 
> Sound logic... :eyeroll:
> 
> why can't I shoot them now?


Because it's illegal...


----------



## blhunter3

A few hours each year? Wow you are ignorant.


----------



## 6162rk

sorry we don't all agree. that is why we have forums.


----------



## Gunny

If one does not live on a farm, have a farming background or even live in a rural area... Than one has no clue what one is speaking of when one says the things one says.

It sounds like a citiot argument to say the things you claim to know. I've never heard any farmers brag about their income. I have heard city folk brag about almost everything.

There ARE corporate farms that would acquiesce with your argument, but it is lack of knowledge that will bring one to the conclusion you have come to. Not every farmer is part of "big ag", and to pigeon hole all farmers is silly.

Again... this argument is about pop control and how we can be the best stewarts of our resources.


----------



## snowgoosekilla1

No...this forum was about if anyone has heard if no plugs will be allowed in the Nodak early goose season, but I did like the argument that was started. :thumb:


----------



## 6162rk

gunny,

if you only knew


----------



## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> A few hours each year? Wow you are ignorant.


Probably one of the top 5 ignorant people on Nodak calling somone ignorant, how ironically ignorant.


----------



## Mike Kortum

Gunny said:


> This is about controling a population growth/boom, BEFORE we can't stop it... i.e. Snow geese.


You keep trying to equate this to the same problem we have with snow geese. The problem with snows is a destruction (as in ruining/destroying/can't use next year/never the same again/etc.) of their breeding grounds because of how they eat and the plants that take over after they have utilized an area to long,, we all know this, this is nothing new. Canadas on the other hand simply eat fresh, green growth that will grow back next year if not begin immediately regrowing after being eaten. Assuming you don't talk to a farmer, they are not destroying anything, especially if you consider carrying capacity (we're not losing any farms).

I see where you are trying to take this, but you are incorrect. Your takes on everything are fun to read though, so please continue. Just no more comparing the current populations of canadas to snows.


----------



## Gunny

Over population is over population... no matter how you cut it or try to pigeonhole it. The comparison is strictly an "overpopulation" comparison, as it is the best reference when discussing the overpop of certain anatidae.

Lets compare them with Wolves then. Another fantastic conservation win. Until you protect them to the point of decimating the deer population, which is FACT in northern MN. We used to have a moose population as well... not so much any more.

My point is, though they may not have the same story, the end result becomes the same. Over populations of any animal... including humans, is a bad thing.

You clearly would choose to wait until it is to late. Then what?

I understand the differences between s-geese and canadas. So save the platitudes. The only reason canadas are NOT eating themselves out of existance is because their major food sources are replanted every year, or they live their lives in urban parks where their is no hunting. Alexandria MN, for example, is one HUGE refuge. Tell the citizens of Alex there is no pop problem. many of those birds stay year around. They then breed as well. Eventually the land will not be able to support the population. How long should the citizens wait, wading through poop and feathers before we act?

That's just one example...

http://hometownsource.com/2012/07/02/breeding-mallard-numbers-average-canada-goose-population-high/

Canada Goose
The Canada goose population is estimated by a separate helicopter survey conducted in April. This year's estimated goose population was 434,000, which was higher than last year's estimate of 370,000.
(That's was an increase of 64,000 birds in one year...How many of those will have young?)
"Because of the early spring, Canada geese nested early," Cordts said. "Production appears to be excellent, with large numbers of goose broods across the state. This has resulted in increased reports of agricultural damage by geese this year."

The Canada goose hunting season established by the DNR in recent years is open for 107 days, the maximum number of days allowed.

"We may have to explore additional options in the future in order to address the large Canada goose population," Cordts said.

We can agree to disagree, but when were talking hunting with no plugs (2 more rounds) or drilling...?

I choose hunting.


----------



## Mike Kortum

Gunny said:


> Over population is over population... no matter how you cut it or try to pigeonhole it. The comparison is strictly an "overpopulation" comparison, as it is the best reference when discussing the overpop of certain anatidae.
> 
> Lets compare them with Wolves then. Another fantastic conservation win. Until you protect them to the point of decimating the deer population, which is FACT in northern MN. We used to have a moose population as well... not so much any more.
> 
> My point is, though they may not have the same story, the end result becomes the same. Over populations of any animal... including humans, is a bad thing.
> 
> You clearly would choose to wait until it is to late. Then what?
> 
> I understand the differences between s-geese and canadas. So save the platitudes. The only reason canadas are NOT eating themselves out of existance is because their major food sources are replanted every year, or they live their lives in urban parks where their is no hunting. Alexandria MN, for example, is one HUGE refuge. Tell the citizens of Alex there is no pop problem. many of those birds stay year around. They then breed as well. Eventually the land will not be able to support the population. How long should the citizens wait, wading through poop and feathers before we act?
> 
> That's just one example...
> 
> http://hometownsource.com/2012/07/02/breeding-mallard-numbers-average-canada-goose-population-high/
> 
> Canada Goose
> The Canada goose population is estimated by a separate helicopter survey conducted in April. This year's estimated goose population was 434,000, which was higher than last year's estimate of 370,000.
> (That's was an increase of 64,000 birds in one year...How many of those will have young?)
> "Because of the early spring, Canada geese nested early," Cordts said. "Production appears to be excellent, with large numbers of goose broods across the state. This has resulted in increased reports of agricultural damage by geese this year."
> 
> The Canada goose hunting season established by the DNR in recent years is open for 107 days, the maximum number of days allowed.
> 
> "We may have to explore additional options in the future in order to address the large Canada goose population," Cordts said.
> 
> We can agree to disagree, but when were talking hunting with no plugs (2 more rounds) or drilling...?
> 
> I choose hunting.


Oh i get it now. You see canada geese being "over populated" because of social reasons, but use biological concepts to validate your reasoning. I base populations on biological factors only. With as many farm fields, parks and golf courses we have, they will run out of suitable breeding sites long before they run out of food. So a biological over population of canadas is basically impossible since the limiting factor is breeding sites, not food. But socially, according to goose haters, they already are over populated and its a shame they think like that.


----------



## Mike Kortum

And for the record, i have never said i was against any sort of added hunting oppurtunities because of the historically strong numbers. Even not using plugs. But if population reduction of a species that isn't even over populated is the goal, then i disagree with it.


----------



## Gunny

Mike Kortum said:


> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over population is over population... no matter how you cut it or try to pigeonhole it. The comparison is strictly an "overpopulation" comparison, as it is the best reference when discussing the overpop of certain anatidae.
> 
> Lets compare them with Wolves then. Another fantastic conservation win. Until you protect them to the point of decimating the deer population, which is FACT in northern MN. We used to have a moose population as well... not so much any more.
> 
> My point is, though they may not have the same story, the end result becomes the same. Over populations of any animal... including humans, is a bad thing.
> 
> You clearly would choose to wait until it is to late. Then what?
> 
> I understand the differences between s-geese and canadas. So save the platitudes. The only reason canadas are NOT eating themselves out of existance is because their major food sources are replanted every year, or they live their lives in urban parks where their is no hunting. Alexandria MN, for example, is one HUGE refuge. Tell the citizens of Alex there is no pop problem. many of those birds stay year around. They then breed as well. Eventually the land will not be able to support the population. How long should the citizens wait, wading through poop and feathers before we act?
> 
> That's just one example...
> 
> http://hometownsource.com/2012/07/02/breeding-mallard-numbers-average-canada-goose-population-high/
> 
> Canada Goose
> The Canada goose population is estimated by a separate helicopter survey conducted in April. This year's estimated goose population was 434,000, which was higher than last year's estimate of 370,000.
> (That's was an increase of 64,000 birds in one year...How many of those will have young?)
> "Because of the early spring, Canada geese nested early," Cordts said. "Production appears to be excellent, with large numbers of goose broods across the state. This has resulted in increased reports of agricultural damage by geese this year."
> 
> The Canada goose hunting season established by the DNR in recent years is open for 107 days, the maximum number of days allowed.
> 
> "We may have to explore additional options in the future in order to address the large Canada goose population," Cordts said.
> 
> We can agree to disagree, but when were talking hunting with no plugs (2 more rounds) or drilling...?
> 
> I choose hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh i get it now. You see canada geese being "over populated" because of social reasons, but use biological concepts to validate your reasoning.
> 
> You might want to reread my posts...Where did I say they WERE overpopulated? My contention is not that they are over populated... It is that we are heading in that direction hence the word BEFORE..., and allowing 2 more rounds will not negatively effect the population of the canada goose
> 
> I base populations on biological factors only. With as many farm fields, parks and golf courses we have, they will run out of suitable breeding sites long before they run out of food.
> 
> Who's worried about them running out of food? Surley not the farmers and ranchers, golf course attendants or parks personel.
> 
> So a biological over population of canadas is basically impossible since the limiting factor is breeding sites, not food. But socially, according to goose haters, they already are over populated and its a shame they think like that.
Click to expand...

I find it funny you think of concerned hunters and waterfowl addicts as "goose haters". How many hunters, real hunters, do you know that hate geese? That's just silly. Possible over populations in urban areas IS a problem. (see Alexandria , MN)
Fact. Waterfowl tend to return to their breeding grounds, i.e, some of the farm fields, parks and golf courses you spoke of. What's the answer? Drilling eggs, which IS happening? I think not. So, as I have said many... many times, let people have the option of adding 2 rounds. It will not hurt the population in the least


----------



## Mike Kortum

Gunny said:


> Mike Kortum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gunny said:
> 
> 
> 
> Over population is over population... no matter how you cut it or try to pigeonhole it. The comparison is strictly an "overpopulation" comparison, as it is the best reference when discussing the overpop of certain anatidae.
> 
> Lets compare them with Wolves then. Another fantastic conservation win. Until you protect them to the point of decimating the deer population, which is FACT in northern MN. We used to have a moose population as well... not so much any more.
> 
> My point is, though they may not have the same story, the end result becomes the same. Over populations of any animal... including humans, is a bad thing.
> 
> You clearly would choose to wait until it is to late. Then what?
> 
> I understand the differences between s-geese and canadas. So save the platitudes. The only reason canadas are NOT eating themselves out of existance is because their major food sources are replanted every year, or they live their lives in urban parks where their is no hunting. Alexandria MN, for example, is one HUGE refuge. Tell the citizens of Alex there is no pop problem. many of those birds stay year around. They then breed as well. Eventually the land will not be able to support the population. How long should the citizens wait, wading through poop and feathers before we act?
> 
> That's just one example...
> 
> http://hometownsource.com/2012/07/02/breeding-mallard-numbers-average-canada-goose-population-high/
> 
> Canada Goose
> The Canada goose population is estimated by a separate helicopter survey conducted in April. This year's estimated goose population was 434,000, which was higher than last year's estimate of 370,000.
> (That's was an increase of 64,000 birds in one year...How many of those will have young?)
> "Because of the early spring, Canada geese nested early," Cordts said. "Production appears to be excellent, with large numbers of goose broods across the state. This has resulted in increased reports of agricultural damage by geese this year."
> 
> The Canada goose hunting season established by the DNR in recent years is open for 107 days, the maximum number of days allowed.
> 
> "We may have to explore additional options in the future in order to address the large Canada goose population," Cordts said.
> 
> We can agree to disagree, but when were talking hunting with no plugs (2 more rounds) or drilling...?
> 
> I choose hunting.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh i get it now. You see canada geese being "over populated" because of social reasons, but use biological concepts to validate your reasoning.
> 
> You might want to reread my posts...Where did I say they WERE overpopulated? My contention is not that they are over populated... It is that we are heading in that direction hence the word BEFORE..., and allowing 2 more rounds will not negatively effect the population of the canada goose
> 
> I base populations on biological factors only. With as many farm fields, parks and golf courses we have, they will run out of suitable breeding sites long before they run out of food.
> 
> Who's worried about them running out of food? Surley not the farmers and ranchers, golf course attendants or parks personel.
> 
> So a biological over population of canadas is basically impossible since the limiting factor is breeding sites, not food. But socially, according to goose haters, they already are over populated and its a shame they think like that.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I find it funny you think of concerned hunters and waterfowl addicts as "goose haters". How many hunters, real hunters, do you know that hate geese? That's just silly. Possible over populations in urban areas IS a problem. (see Alexandria , MN)
> Fact. Waterfowl tend to return to their breeding grounds, i.e, some of the farm fields, parks and golf courses you spoke of. What's the answer? Drilling eggs, which IS happening? I think not. So, as I have said many... many times, let people have the option of adding 2 rounds. It will not hurt the population in the least
Click to expand...

You have made such little sense and contradicted yourself to many times to bother replying. Good luck this season, i hope you shoot enough geese to save them from the made up problems that they might somehow get themselves into the future or whatever the heck it is you're talking about.


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## Gunny

Classy... :eyeroll:


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## snowhunter23

I can't even being to describe how disappointed I am in most of you (notice how I said "most", NOT everyone). We as hunters are this countries BIGGEST contributors to rehabilitating habit for waterfowl and other animals. As a hunter we respect the game we harvest and we harvest them by respectful means. When I read some of these posts I tend to get lost and can't seem to find how some of you even begin to respect the birds we hunt. I am 21 years of age, my father has taught me the way of respecting the game. When we begin to do this we understand the birds better and become better hunters. It seems to me that too many of you are caught up in the age of who is better than who, and who can get the most stickers on their trailer. I would just go ahead and assume most of you don't even know where the Canada Goose stood about 40 years ago. In grade school I choose to do a report on geese and it is just mind boggling how they were nearly extinct! With great determination and rehabilitation we have brought them back to numbers that are beyond belief! Too the point where egg drilling, permit shooting, special hunting seasons and other events happen because of "overpopulated" numbers. This particular thread is referring to "plugs or no plugs." If I were asked this question, my answer would have to be YES! In a conservation and economical viewpoint, I would much rather have hunters with unplugged shotguns than have my local DNR going out and drilling and stomping eggs. I don't see that being respectful to the birds that were nearly extinct. We as hunters are already spoiled and don't realize what we actually have! It was a rarity to shoot a canada back in the day. Let us hunt, let us hunters do the respectful thing, give the birds and chance. What are we gonna do when the mallards become "overpopulated"? :eyeroll:


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## Mike Kortum

Gunny said:


> Classy... :eyeroll:


Trust me. I'm well aware.


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## abiewer

What an argument! I was hunting when there where no Canadas and the limit for ducks was 3 (1988)l - hunters now are spoiled, geese are not rats. Its the wow - how many can we kill factor not hunting that sounds like its driving this. We should use rifles cause from May through July - they are anyway. If the limit is 15 - it really won't matter in our area - rarely will be have that many early season flocks available that we will kill that many. Plugs out really don't matter - but extensions will just allow guys to cripple more because they really don't care how many fly away wounded and will shoot til they are out of sight - I notice young guys do this all the time anyway. (the respect for the resource that was mentioned) and swearing on the post makes your intelligence increase and everyone bow. You guys enjoy your killing spree cause - If the farmer doesn't want to protect his land, then he should get a subsidy established for the damage so he doesn't kill them. As the hand out/farm subsidies now don't amount to crap and will go away in the next farm bill. Because there will be no incentive in the next farm bill, farmers will not need to sign up for it and preserve wetlands. They will be able to tile, drain, and fill every pothole and slough in the country - and they will -cause they can afford it-most of them have a full line of construction machinery already. Next, your Canada goose population will disappear- like in the dry 70' and 80's and people will be gripping about how Game and Fish manages waterfowl. And, there will be no decent hunting and lots of cheap trailers with goose decoys.

As the deer hunters in North Dakota, years of multiple tags and habitat loss - now we have half the tags we did 2 years ago and we have to apply for our bow tags on the internet so we don't buy too many - fun!


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## fieldgeneral

Watch out what you say about farmers and the money and machinery they have. Earlier in the thread a guy with the last name of Smith got quite defensive when a little something came up about how much they have been making lately. He might get mad at you! :wink:


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