# Missouri River Accident



## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/30dayarc ... nws01.html

Thoughts? :eyeroll:


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

what nightmare - why i don't ice fish


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

Actually they weren't down there to fish. The guy wanted to test out his truck he just bought and went somewhere he obviously was not familiar with. 
:eyeroll:


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

What a bad deal. It just brings back a horrible memery from last year. :eyeroll:


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## bubolc (Aug 11, 2003)

What a tragedy, lesson learned the hardest way.


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

The worst thing is it could have been avoided with some common sense.


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## bubolc (Aug 11, 2003)

Not that I want to make false acussations, but it the story reads like there may be a little more to the story than what was printed, ?????, tragedies like this one make me more mad than anything.


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## bassmaster (Jan 28, 2004)

I dont know how I could live with hearing the last words "Dan, help me" from my friend of 15 years. It's something you would think of everyday for the rest of your life. And then he says "I don't know how he didn't get out," Phillips said. "It's terrible. I don't know how to deal with it." That just makes it even sadder


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

It is a terrible thing to hear the last words or breath of another human. I have been in an accident where the last words of my friend, from 1st grade on thru his life, were "Oh ****" . Not that it mattered.... but he was driving.

My heart goes out to the fellow who has had to go thru this ordeal. As many great soldiers have said and done.... March On!!


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Its always hard to loose a friend. Would not wish that situation on anyone.


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Whatever the cause or reason its sad for any human to have that happen to them. God bless him, his friends and family.


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## goose (Jul 19, 2003)

i would probably just have to commit suicide...if my best freind said those words for the last second of his life id go to sleep ever night adn hear them and i dont think id be able to cope..
its a tragedy and prayers go out to them.


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

Now it does suck and is a terrible thing to happen, here is a question.

Should the driver be held responsible in court?


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## bubolc (Aug 11, 2003)

Negligence?


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

I am surprised (somewhat) that he has not be charged with Negligent Homicide. Even tho it would be horrible to have to live with being responsible for your friends death, it is much like someone driving drunk and getting in an accident and killing a passenger, or having a child shoot themself with your gun, or any other form of negligent homicide. You did not mean to kill someone but you showed a lack of care/concern. I don't know anyone who drives around the river (around Bismarck) during the winter let alone with all the fresh snow and being unfamiliar (obviously) with the area. 
That is kind of why I was wondering what everyone thought about it and if he should be charged.


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## Blake Hermel (Sep 10, 2002)

I watched my friend go through in 40' of water on a snowmobile. I was able to put a canoe over my head and zoom by him in open water on my polaris and slingshot it to him, he lived, but barely. 4 hours later a hovercraft picked him up in the canoe. I ventured on to thin ice once, and my friend almost died. NEVER AGAIN

That guy is going to seriously need some help after going through that


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## Blake Hermel (Sep 10, 2002)

stevepike are you freakin serious with the homcide thing? Thats the dumbest thing I have heard in a while. It was an ACCIDENT...Geezus, the things people pull out of their ***.. Talk smack until its you that goes off the side of the expressway bridge because it was icey, plunges through the ice, and then gets charged with "negligent homicide" :withstupid:


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Lets get ready to rumble!!!


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Before this gets ugly I just had to give my opinion. I have read this story a couple of times and can't help but thinking, why? Why would you take a vehicle out on a river to go off-roading when a road would work?? Why would you drive out on the ice when you can see steam coming up?? Is this a shock that the vehicle fell in?? In the end however, I just can't see how you can charge the guy for anything when the friend was in there voluntarily. Because of poor judgement on everyone's part a person will have to live the rest of his life with what happened and that's punishment enough......


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

So true Eric.... so true...


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

Blake,
Thanks for your opinion. That is what I asked for. I can see why you are so passionate about it from your earlier experience.

There is a big difference between sliding off an icy road and choosing to drive around the Missouri where you cannot see, in the wintertime when everything is snow covered. It is not like he was driving on 2 ft of ice and went through a weak spot.

I asked for opinions because this guy could be charged with negligent homicide. A judge would probably convict him but doubtful a jury would. It is much like the guy who chooses to drive drunk and his buddy voluntarily goes with, gets in a wreck and kills his buddy&#8230;

Yes he does have to live with what he did but just think how you would feel if it was your dad, brother, friend etc. who died in such a senseless way. Again, I was asking for input/opinions as someone had brought up this situation to me asking my opinion. I wanted to see what the folks on here thought.

Let's be safe out there and use some common sense. :beer:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Drinking and driving is a different senario because drinking and driving is illegal (open container). I don't think it is illegal to drive where he was. Terrible mistake and a terrible accident.


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## bubolc (Aug 11, 2003)

Are we all negligent every time we venture out onto the ice to drive to our fish houses? I guess if a truck goes in and nobody is hurt it's classified as poor judgement, i don't know. Is this the case with this tragedy, who knows? These poor guys have already paid the ultimate price for their judgement should they be prosecuted for that? With out weighing in emotion i'd like to know people's opinion.


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

I am not sure where exactly they went through but most of it is state land that has no driving off established trails signs all over. So if it was in one of those spots it could have been illegal.

I think everytime we drive on the ice we are taking responsibility for our actions (or we should be). Is it negligent? Ask someone who does not ice fish and they would say yes almost all the time. Ask a fisherman and he may say in February no but in Nov or March yes. Or it may depend on the ice thickness. There are a lot of variables involved.


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## Slider_01 (Sep 12, 2002)

In many of the states, there does not have to be anything illegal (drinking & driving, DWI, DUI, etc) for a state to charge someone with negiligent homicide. Those of you who are hockey fans undoubtedly know about Dany Heatley and Dan Snyder. Snyder was killed in an auto driven by Heatley, the state is still considering whether or not to charge with negiligent homicide even though the parents of Snyder hold no ill feelings. It is a discretionary thing for the D.A. to determine in most cases it seems.

So the questions of "will he be charged" versus "can he be charged" are very different. Answer #1 is ????, #2 is yes.

Just my .02


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

I guess I'll give my 3rd year insight into this legal matter...no charge.

Negligent homicide (NDCC 12.1-16-03)

A person is guilty of a class C felony if he negligently causes the death of another human being.

Therefore there are 3 Elements of the offense
1. Negligence by one person that 
2. Causes Death
3. Of another human being

Negligence (as it applies to 12.1-16-03) is defined as: conduct...that...was in unreasonable disregard...of the existence of the relevant facts or risks (stevepike's "variables" would come into play here), such disregard involving a gross deviation from acceptable standards of conduct State v. Tranby

The other two factors can be easily determined, the negligence however...that is the judgment call by the court or a jury, that is the single most important factor for a prosecutor to prove for conviction.

If you were on the jury, you would most likely be instructed along lines similar to this truncated list of elements.

If you were a prosecutor, would you charge, or use your discretion and not charge? If you were a juror would you convict based on just the facts in the article?


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

Thanks njsimonson, it would be tough being a prosecutor or juror. I don't think I would make it as a juror as I would not make it based on previous knowledge/experiences.

Would you charge him?

The article does not give a lot of needed information like exactly where he was, how far from shore, was he familiar with the area, etc. If he had not been in the bottoms since Oct/Nov, many of the areas that were dry are now covered by 6 ft of water and ice and snow.

Again, I feel for the guy losing his friend. I am just wondering if ND hunters/fishermen see this as negligent or not.


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Stevepike -

Personally, unless the family approached me, or was requested by a higher up, I would not charge.

There is a message in charging/convicting someone on an offense like this and that is: "MEMBERS OF SOCIETY, THIS BEHAVIOR IS WRONG/DANGEROUS - DON'T DO IT OR YOU WILL BE PUNISHED!!!"

That future deterrence is one of the four goals of our legal system, to prevent dangerous behavior from others in the future. That is why charging the driver would make sense, BUT...

I think a majority of people know better than to drive on thin ice on a flowing body of water so I think society already has that message, and will avoid driving on the river.

The personal guilt, whether warranted or not in a situation like this, is enough punishment already in my eyes and would cause me to use my discretion if I were the prosecutor and NOT charge him.

These are just my personal views on the legal system in this situation, others may see it differently.


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## Slider_01 (Sep 12, 2002)

Hear, Hear. I agree on the not-charging. Hopefully the prosecutor and their boss will realize the personal hell this person will endure and use discretion by not chargin anything.


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

> That future deterrence is one of the four goals of our legal system, to prevent dangerous behavior from others in the future. That is why charging the driver would make sense, BUT...


That is very true. I don't think he should be charged either. Mainly because the guy was in there willingly and could/should have known better as well.

I personally do not believe personal guilt, feeling bad, being remorseful should excuse one from being punished for a crime but in this case I guess I see it more as extremely poor judgement than a crime.

Thanks slider and NJ. Anyone else have any opinions either way.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

nj has a good grip on this I'm with him.


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

Driver charged in river accident
Story out of the Tribune...
http://bismarcktribune.com/articles/200 ... /nws01.txt


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