# the next time you think taxes are too high



## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

Currently on my way back from Europe. The netherlands, a middle of the road taxation in Europe; income taxes begin at 38% and rise to 52% when you reach an income of $75k. national sales tax, 6.5%. sales tax on alcohol 19.1%. regular gas, $6 per gallon, one bedroom studio apartment, $1500 per month, tax to own a television, $200 per year, property tax, 4 - 8x higher than current North Dakota tax on farming land. The next time any politician tells you your taxes are too high, ask them compared to what?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Taxes are too high and if you don't complain the politicians will be all to happy to continue to try to catch up with Hollands. There is no end to their desire to reach into our pockets, for money to buy votes from one group or another.


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

Are all those numbers apples to apples compared to us? The last Human Development Index list the Netherlands as 5th on the list of most livable countries. The US was listed as 8th.

I know the HDI uses more than just economic figures but I am really not that up to speed on the Netherlands.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

There is a reason our fore-fathers migrated away from Europe! Do any of you remember the reason we decided to fight the "red-coats".......yep, taxes!


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## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

Taxes are too high, no matter what other countries are doing. Taxes on wages are right around 30 % on what I make. I pay 2700 dollars a year on property taxes (that is low compared to some in my area) on a normal three bedroom house, with no land. License plate fees/taxes. Taxes on every purchase that we make. Taxes on gasoline, alcohol, cigarettes. Government taxes anything that they find out people want to purchase, and if after all of those taxes that you pay, if you are able to scrap and scrape and buy something nice then they add an extra tax because you are buying a luxury. :******: uke: :******:

Sorry for the ranting, just saw how much I payed in taxes for the year. :******: :******:


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I agree . Lets cut out All taxes. We don't need paved roads, water and sewer treatment plants, emergency services, government, prisons border patrol, armed services, schools...............


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

A huge problem is how we (legal taxpaying citizens) are paying for lazyness! The system gets cheated to easily and I have seen it first hand. -- My old roommate got laid off so he filed for unemployment while he looked for a job. As I'm sure some of you know, part of the process is applying for a certain number of jobs per week in order to get your check. Well, my roommate new that he had a decent job lined up in about 5 months so he did nothing but apply for jobs he wasn't qualified for. He would laugh and tell me the people in his "class" at job service would complain that their was nothing to apply for and would be allowed to slide on the requirement.

Now, I feel for people that really need the help...and I think they deserve a chance to stay on their feet. But I hate how many people "cheat" the system.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

dakotashooter2 said:


> I agree . Lets cut out All taxes. We don't need paved roads, water and sewer treatment plants, emergency services, government, prisons border patrol, armed services, schools...............


Great insightful statement. :eyeroll:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

If they limited it to those things taxes would be resonable.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

One of the reasons that we are all paying such high taxes is to fund the war that you all supported. Think about that next time before backing a war with such gusto think about the repercussions.


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## jamartinmg2 (Oct 7, 2004)

MT..... Sure taxes are used to fight wars. But I'll tell you what, if a war can help prevent another 9/11, or some other, perhaps worse, blow against our country, I will support the war everyday of the week. There are still hundreds of programs that the government controls that I'm sure could be cut back, or eliminated, altogether, I'd venture to guess. The problem is, once any program is started and funded, it is damn near impossible to get rid of it. :-?


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

jamartinmg2,

Good reply to MT's statement. Yes, we all agree the war costs TONS of money. However, there are many abused programs like WELFARE that cost us a lot of money as well.

MT,

Have you been to Iraq? Unfortunately, I have not been able to serve there yet, although I have volunteered numerous times. EVERY fellow GI that I spoke with upon returning from Iraq has said that we *need *to be there. A lot of good is occurring over there, the media just fails to portray it.

There is no price that can be affixed to FREEDOM!

Just my opinion. Happy Holidays...

tad


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"MT..... Sure taxes are used to fight wars. But I'll tell you what, if a war can help prevent another 9/11, or some other, perhaps worse, blow against our country, I will support the war everyday of the week."

Good luck trying to do that in Iraq, you are just one or two countries off

"EVERY fellow GI that I spoke with upon returning from Iraq has said that we need to be there. A lot of good is occurring over there, the media just fails to portray it.

There is no price that can be affixed to FREEDOM! "

And why do we not grant freedom to the waring nations of Africa? Are they not worthy of freedom?


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> And why do we not grant freedom to the waring nations of Africa? Are they not worthy of freedom?


It's a mean world, we are preparing Africa to be a major trade partner of ours. We just gotta convince the Africans thats the way it's gonna be, it's part of the New World Order. It's just starting with the middle east and will work it's way south until we see Nelson Mendela's castle in South Africa.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Try building a house in the Eagle Run addition in West Fargo. Taxes for a lot were $4200.00 and total will be $11000.00 for the year when the house is built


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Eric, That is the price you pay to be in Gods' country, aka West Fargo............Where the sun always shines and the water table is low!!!

:wink:


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

MT,

Last time I checked, Middle-Eastern countries were more of a threat to OUR freedom than the African countries. They too are worthy of freedom, but unfortunately the misfortune of our fate in Somalia has caused our politicians to avoid making Africa a priority...and I would have to agree with them.

tad


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## drjongy (Oct 13, 2003)

I don't _think_ taxes are too high....I *KNOW* they are too high.

Let's get a flat tax and stop punishing people who take the initiative, time and/or risk necessary for the oportunity to make more money. (i.e. advancing your education, risking your house/savings for a business venture, ect.)


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

fairtax.org


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## zfish87 (Oct 25, 2004)

Sorry for the late post, but we were talking about taxes in Europe earlier at school and the thing with those countrys that tax you up the wazoo, is that they pay all kinds of compemsation to you. If i remember right, a women can take maternity leave for up to a year with full pay and benefits, not saying high taxes are good or anything(I really don't know squat about taxes, haven't had the pleasure yet),but it seems like it balances out.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

It doesn't balance out, it cripples the European economy and makes it lag behind all other Democratic economies in the world.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

taddy1340 said:


> MT,
> 
> Last time I checked, Middle-Eastern countries were more of a threat to OUR freedom than the African countries. They too are worthy of freedom, but unfortunately the misfortune of our fate in Somalia has caused our politicians to avoid making Africa a priority...and I would have to agree with them.


You mean the entire mid east? Not the countries who actually took part in 9/11 such as saudi arabia and afghanistan? That is like saying that your friend Carl owes you 20 bucks, so you ask your friend Joe for the money back. It doesn't make any damn sense. If this war actually focused on the terror problem I wouldn't harp, but it doesn't.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

MT,

Good evening. Unfortunately, our conversation is diverting from the origins of the forum topic. If you have further comments for me specifically, send it PM. I no longer want to make others wade through our comments to read those particular to the topic.

Have a nice holiday season.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT

I didn't stop to contemplate your motives before, but now I am curious. What is your big beef with Saudi Arabia? Are you from a Mid East country yourself, and if so which one? This blame Saudi Arabia all the time is feeding my curiosity. Did you see the last tape of Osama? He is now threatening Saudi Arabia. Have you ever heard the old saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Many things make me curious like your complaining about encroachment of farm land, and a post or two later you say you live in the suburbs. Nothing encroaches more on farmland than the bedroom communities surrounding larger cities. Just trying to make sense of which direction you are going. It appears your going in opposite directions sometimes.


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

Citizens Against Government Waste - www.cagw.org

Tax Payers for Common Sense - www.taxpayer.net


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

After reading the comments on my post, my original problem still stands. Most complained their taxes were too high. Compared to Minnesota, compared to any other state, compared to other countries? The US has the lowest tax rates of any developed country even before the tax cuts. North Dakota income tax is about in the middle of the pack, but property taxes are some of the lowest in the US. When Congress and the administration talk about reducing the deficit by controlling domestic spending, they are talking about controlling spending on part of the total federal budget that is less than 20%. the other 80% goes to defense and entitlement programs like social security, medicare, federal ag subsidies etc. If you look closely at the federal budget, spending on the environment (any program), it is less than 0.7% of the total federal budget. Considering that western european countries spend from 1 - 5% of their federal budgets on environmental programs, the US is way behind. Think about it this way sportsmen, the tax money you pay for the environment (think habitat, clean water for your fish and ducks) is a miniscule part of the budget, less than most other countries, and is the part of the budget that is taking the brunt of the attempts to balance the budget and reduce the deficit, of which, about 1/3 was created by your precious tax cuts. You have a choice, by voting, of your priorities. You can't have good roads without paying taxes for those roads. You cannot have ag subsidies, loan programs or other ag programs without paying taxes. You cannot have schools without paying taxes. Decide your own priorties. BTW, if you look at citizens against government waste, fair tax or any other similiar group, check out the supposed "waste" in environmental programs. You will find that environmental programs of the federal government are the leanest meanest and least likely to waste your tax dollar.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

indsport, why are we comparing ourself to other nations and/or states? What bearing does our tax rate have on our waste? Waste is waste, right? I am going to play devils advocate just for the fun of it here.... I worked for a city government here in ND and let me tell you how pathetic it was run. First of all, not one of the council members was a business owner and didn't know how to allocate funds worth a !?$*. We would waste money trying to mend/repair equipment, buildings, pools, ice arenas, etc.... instead of dumping them and starting over. I put together the financials for them, showed them how much money they could save, did cash flow projections (most of them don't understand cash flow :eyeroll: ) and they still did it their way.

All I am saying is that they honestly thought they were doing the right thing, but they were not. I consider that "waste."

Also, I don't care what Great Britian payes for taxes........they have a completely different economic environment and mindset. Yes, our property taxes are low compared to other areas, but so is our earning power. If you feel you are not paying enough, I bet the government would be happy to take the extra cash. No one is stopping people from sending in extra money! 

I love these discussions, tax talk is one of my favs !!!!!!!!!!!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"I didn't stop to contemplate your motives before, but now I am curious. What is your big beef with Saudi Arabia? Are you from a Mid East country yourself, and if so which one? This blame Saudi Arabia all the time is feeding my curiosity. Did you see the last tape of Osama? He is now threatening Saudi Arabia. Have you ever heard the old saying, the enemy of my enemy is my friend? "

This site can explain it better than I can.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=36568

I was born in the states, but I also realize that even though they are one of our oil buddies they fund terrorism, many of the hijackers on 9/11 were saudi, and that they were and are a far larger threat to the American way of life than Iraq ever was.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

Remmi, during the political silly season, all you heard was that taxes were too high. Again, my posit. the phrase too high means they are higher than some other value. Again, too high in Fargo compared to Grand forks??? Even though the Bush tax cuts made a difference in my pay check and financial planning, I disagreed entirely. We now have a deficit instead of paying down debt, have insufficient funds to fund a war and domestic programs and are generally headed in the wrong direction. 
It is the other basic reason I split from the Republicans. They used the be the party of fiscal restraint and now look just like the Democrats.

Sorry, I also work for government. our agency and in particular, where I work, has been strictly audited, reviewed, etc and by any standard, are the most productive and cheapest facility of its type in the US. I am proud of where I work. Contact me off list if you want more info.


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