# too many novices in the woods?



## imajeep (Jan 21, 2007)

i hunt coyote successfully about 50% of the time i go.....

usually in 5 sets in a day, i kill at least one dog, or at least see one.

lately though, ive been having a hard time getting dogs to close the gap.
they are really holding up out there at 250-150 yards, and not running me over like they were in years past.....

anyone on board with the thought that maybe they are getting used to hearing coyote calls from novice hunters that dont know what they are doing? i m thinking thats what is making them only willing to semi-commit.

PS- to overcome this, i have just rigged a decoy assembly that moves.... im sure the "**** skin" cap with tail, will make them hungry enough to eat lead.


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## imajeep (Jan 21, 2007)

i guess the first two statements in my topic make no sence.....

what i mean is i kill a coyote about every other day i hunt...
im trying to establish, that ive been doing this for a few years now.... and know how to get em in..


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## duckmander (Aug 25, 2008)

> anyone on board with the thought that maybe they are getting used to hearing coyote calls from novice hunters that dont know what they are doing?


so what your saying is there too many new hunters messing up your hunting.

My way of thinking is the more the better. we need all the help we can get. especially now.

and as far as new/novice hunters if they are interested in an area of hunting I know a little about I will help them as much as possible.

and yeah I do understand where you are comming from about the novice calling. I am one of them I like hunting yotes. but my calling leaves a lot to be desired. so I mostly just shoot them when I see them. Or go with someone that I know can call them in. for me It seems like it dont matter if im using a mouth call or an elec call I STILL CANT CALLEM IN.

good luck to you I hope the decoy helps.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

well it sounds like you need to spend a bit more time at the range, 250 is a chip shot.

Could it be that you might be smartening them up. Don't take offense to this but if you call in a spot year after year with the same calls and same locations they start to catch on. I'm not trying to be a smarta$$, i'm being realistic. Try some new spots, you might surprise yourself.

Now if you said that you see tracks in the snow every time you go to that location, then it might be someone else. another thing that might be happening is that the coyote numbers in that area are lower than they have been in the past.

xdeano


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

To be blunt! Where you born and expert in coyote hunting? If not then you at one time where a novice newbie who was learning and after some time are competent according to you at what you are attempting!

When I started hunting I was lucky in that I had a number of patient people who pointed out my mistakes and the reason why these mistakes reduced my success. I had others who for whatever reason assumed that someone should know everything and because of a novice mistake messed up their hunt!

Today I still hunt with those who where teachers and with those whom I have started and helped get started hunting. Funny thing is that none of those impatient people are hunting with us anymore and have not for a long long time!!!!

Just some food for thought!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

xdeano said:


> well it sounds like you need to spend a bit more time at the range, 250 is a chip shot.
> 
> xdeano


 :beer:

I welcome newbies. As long as they are attempting to DO IT RIGHT!

I see guys EVERY year blowing the call out of the pickup window, the foxpro sitting on the roof of the cab. Or driving around sloughs to "scare em out". These guys I wish would stay home.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

bareback the skill is taking that coyote at 200 yards on the back of a snowmobile doing 50 mph!!!!!!!   You may be a bit young to remember how much of an issue this was a number of years back when fur prices where high. Guys mounting gun scabbards on their sleds putting folding stocks with pistol grips on shotguns. Some would given the chance run them over with the sled!

So it is not worse today, than in the past.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

imajeep
I am a novice coyote caller; this will be my 3rd year trying. My 1st two years I have been trying to educate myself, not the dogs.

I do spend quite a bit of time shooting and can tell you a standing coyote at 150 to 250 yards is not difficult; it just takes practice.

Maybe you and I can share tips with eachother.....


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

the way I read this, if you haven't been hunting for 10 years or more don't bother to start. Ok , when all of us educated hunters pass away there will be no hunters.

Jeep why don't you offer to take some of these novice's that are destroying your hunting with you and that way we can all be as good as you.

I'm always looking for a new hunting partner. Would love to show someone what I know, and maybe learn something new.


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## t.crawford714 (Nov 7, 2008)

wow you guys do alot of bashing to newbies. I started hunting yotes when i was 12 im 14 now and i just go out with a few friends go on a farm that i work at occasionally and "watch" over the sheep. if you bait them especially with live sheep they will come.  so if you say newbies shouldnt hunt yotes cuz we havent been hunting them for ten or more years thats bull. we deserve to hunt and enjoy it as much as you guys. and when you guys die off we will be about or age and complain just as much about newbie hunters. ITS LIFE GET OVER IT!!!


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

t.crawford714 said:


> wow you guys do alot of bashing to newbies. I started hunting yotes when i was 12 im 14 now and i just go out with a few friends go on a farm that i work at occasionally and "watch" over the sheep. if you bait them especially with live sheep they will come.  so if you say newbies shouldnt hunt yotes cuz we havent been hunting them for ten or more years thats bull. we deserve to hunt and enjoy it as much as you guys. and when you guys die off we will be about or age and complain just as much about newbie hunters. ITS LIFE GET OVER IT!!!


Where are you from? Just curious if baiting with a LIVE sheep is legal in your area. Let me know where you live and I will look into it.

Everyone is new at some time. Predator hunting has exploded the last several years. Hopefully some of the new excitement of it will wear off and people will also learn that its not like shooting fish in a barrel. That way the die hards will reap the benefits. Just because you are new doesn't mean you can't or won't ever be serious about it. :wink:


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## HAYOTE-.243 (Nov 7, 2008)

I agree that is bull to put down newbies. it is awsome to see new people getting into our sport, especially younger kids it is a great way to keep them off the streets. and as for myself i am no expert but do not mind helping others out. And i am 100% sure your did not start out being an expert caller/hunter. Please just try and take it easy on the new ones don't discourage them help them in all ways you can.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ron Gilmore said:


> bareback the skill is taking that coyote at 200 yards on the back of a snowmobile doing 50 mph!!!!!!!   You may be a bit young to remember how much of an issue this was a number of years back when fur prices where high. Guys mounting gun scabbards on their sleds putting folding stocks with pistol grips on shotguns. Some would given the chance run them over with the sled!
> 
> So it is not worse today, than in the past.


I remember those days, my old man used to buy fur, I could barely see over the skinning bench but I do remember. Fox stacked up outside like cord wood.

Could always tell the "sledded" ones. Some would have burn marks from exhaust pipes and such from being drapped over the sled on the way out.


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## imajeep (Jan 21, 2007)

eassy boys, i think youre taking me all wrong here....

im referring to a pair of specefic places i hunt on occasion, where there are other hunters in the area, where i have noticed this phenomenon....

no i dont think its me, because usually when a dog comes in, it ends up dead.

and no a 250 shot is not an issue, i shoot a fine rifle with fine optics, and can miss 400 yard shots with the best of em.... though, you bring em in another 40-60 and they never seem to run off....

most of these dogs that hold up at these distances still end up in the freezer, i prefer to take closer shots, on still dogs--- head shots if i can.
and i only like to attempt head shots out thru 200, just to allow me some room for error.....

im just asking if anyone else has noticed that the dogs are getting smarter?


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## imajeep (Jan 21, 2007)

nor did i note myself as an elitest.... im no pro, just a guy that hunts frequently....

im not bashing anyone here.... i guess im sorry it came out that way,

im just asking anyone if they have also noticed the same situation.... 
so once again, let me rephrase the question so i dont offend anyone..

does anyone else ever notice the coyotes in areas where there is a lot of 
predator hunting pressure seem to be a little more wiley?

i understand everyone who tries something is a novice, for a while. there is a difference between a novice hunter, who takes it seriously and some guys with 6packs sitting in the truck, smoking some butts and blowing a howler out the window.


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## imajeep (Jan 21, 2007)

barebackjack said:


> xdeano said:
> 
> 
> > well it sounds like you need to spend a bit more time at the range, 250 is a chip shot.
> ...


THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT RIGHT THERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ive noticed the coyotes have gotten a bit more "wiley". But a good hunter will adapt and overcome. (Not saying your not a good hunter, just saying). Stay flexible. I know my calling style isn't the same as my old mans. But I hunt in an area that has far more callers than his. His "old" techniques still work back home. The techniques I learned from him don't fly in my area so much.

Hopefully, alot of those slobs will get bored with it when they get tired of educating coyotes that wont come within 400 yards of their pickup blind. It seems predators or "fur hunting" have always kind of followed an rise and fall in popularity, more so than other animals. 20-30 years ago (the mid 70's-80's) everybody was doing it as fur was worth alot of money, in the nineties not so many did it, now, people have more leisure time to burn.


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## t.crawford714 (Nov 7, 2008)

Where are you from? Just curious if baiting with a LIVE sheep is legal in your area. Let me know where you live and I will look into it.

Everyone is new at some time. Predator hunting has exploded the last several years. Hopefully some of the new excitement of it will wear off and people will also learn that its not like shooting fish in a barrel. That way the die hards will reap the benefits. Just because you are new doesn't mean you can't or won't ever be serious about it. :wink:[/quote]

We truly arent baiting with live sheep. the yotes come in even at the middle of the day now so we protect the sheep with a 7mm-08 hahaha. Ok but seriously i guess we arent baiting its off the farm that i work at and i just make sure the yotes dont get away with another sheep cuz we already had a bear come through the electric fence and we didnt really do anything and we just stayed inside the house. Am i actually baiting if the sheep are put there in a pen by the owner?


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## DeluxeGoodness (Sep 29, 2008)

We truly arent baiting with live sheep. the yotes come in even at the middle of the day now so we protect the sheep with a 7mm-08 hahaha. Ok but seriously i guess we arent baiting its off the farm that i work at and i just make sure the yotes dont get away with another sheep cuz we already had a bear come through the electric fence and we didnt really do anything and we just stayed inside the house. Am i actually baiting if the sheep are put there in a pen by the owner?[/quote]

No. If you didn't put it there, it isn't baiting. At least that's how my state is. Just call your state's game department.


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## HAYOTE-.243 (Nov 7, 2008)

That is much better the way you worded that question this time and yes i have noticed that myself and it is hard for me to figure out how to draw them in since i am no expert. i am just trying to use diffrent off the wall calls that i dont think alot of people are using. and i agree fully with not taking a head shot at 400yards and i am pretty good with my rifle. thank you for re-wording that though i think it cleared alot up.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

tcrawford

You are gonna be ok. Protect those sheep! :beer:


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## t.crawford714 (Nov 7, 2008)

You are gonna be ok. Protect those sheep! :beer:[/quote]

hahahahaha thanks :beer: 

Hayote and by no means was i taking a sheep and tying it up to a tree hahaha  that would just be :evil:


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## dog gone (Jun 23, 2008)

I cant believe what Mr. Jeep is saying. I dont know if anyone is an expert. Most of the so called experts that you see in the movies are hunting on private land with little or no pressure. I know that if in five stands a day and only call in one yote I would be looking at first myself needing to do something different and second a new place to hunt. My expireence if they come in that close and then hang up it is not because they are call shy it is because they saw something they are not sure of like movement.. I mostly call on public property and Yotes do get wise but I try and hunt were no one else is so if they do get wise it is because of me not some novice as it was put. :eyeroll:


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## duckmander (Aug 25, 2008)

agreed. if they cant get out of the truck they need to stay at the bar.

but I would ask how many times do you think you have called in a yote and killed it at whatever distance. and did not notice the one over there leaving because of the shot. or the one comming to the call just over the hill when the shot rang out. My thinking is if they are pressured very hard they are gonna get smart. and quick. so find a new way to sucker them in. I hunt turkeys on public land every spring. and on opening day you may get one to come to the call. but on the second day you can leave them in the truck. these birds have been hunted by the residents for a month before the season even starts. and eastern birds no less. they are pretty smart and dont make mistakes very often. and then you have the truck hunters stop the truck and yelp at them and drive another half a mile to do it again. just makes it harder on the guys trying to do it the right way. so I hear ya. and good luck.


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## imajeep (Jan 21, 2007)

unfortunately for varmit hunters in my area, there arent any fields, or even powerlines where you can frequently see over 300 yards....
maine is 86% heavy timber.....

in fact, most shots on coyotes here are under 70 yards
therefore a dog a day for around here is actually well above the average.


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## DeluxeGoodness (Sep 29, 2008)

ya I dig, broskie. I'm from western Washington, In my last 12 stands, I've only seen 2 yotes. It's really hard in the thick timber, my guess is that they usually spot you before you see them, because of the cover. In my personal experience, hunting turkey is easier than yotes around here.


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## dog gone (Jun 23, 2008)

I guess I dont understand your situation Mr. Jeep. You have me confused. In your first message you said they are hanging up at 150 to 250 yards. Now you are saying you dont have any luck because you hunt in heavy timber. It is hard to see a yote at 150 yard in heavy timber. So I have to ask what is the real problem, is it they are hanging at 200 yards, is it the heavy timber, or is it the novice hunters?


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

dog gone
I believe what Mr. Jeep has it is called FRUSTRATION, if I go through it again this year it will be my 3rd year; GOD I love this obsession !!!


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## HawgMan (Jan 23, 2005)

There is no doubt that the critters are getting educated with all the pressure they're getting from the NEW found sport to so many.
Just makes it more of a challange, and to hone your skills and techniques a liitle more. ya gotta do something outa the norm to coax 'em in a liitle closer.


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## Wyomingpredator (Oct 16, 2007)

so are you saying you knew it all when you started. everyone has to learn sometime somewhere


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## FurGittr (Jan 24, 2003)

It kinda sad how people are so eager to jump all over someones post and try to stir up controversy. I don't see anything in the original post about bashing newbies and this guy gets accused of everything from being a bad shot and not knowing what he is doing! WTF,pretty soon no one is going to want to post a question in fear of getting their a$$ reamed! 
I agree with the original post,I've seen it happen in the past 16 years since this sport has exploded. People are suckered into thinking you go lay down several hundred clams for a new glitzpro 4 caller and the critters will be flying out of the woodwork begging to be shot as on some hunting video. Heck now you can buy little pocket electronic callers for around 20 bucks at the big box store! Don't think this is educating the coyotes in inexperienced hands?
Many will try most will fail, in the mean time it's time to walk a little farther and dig a little deeper to gain the upper hand since our prey isn't getting any dumber.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I think that due to the abundance of prey/food and the mild winters the predators are not as desperate for a meal. They go through some tougher times getting food and I think they will respond to good calling better.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Coyotes are pretty bright and learn quickly that all that sqeals isn't a free lunch. As far as them hanging up, let em' . If I can see him holding up at 150-250 yards, that's a dead coyote...

As to novices, well, we all were at one time. I say let them hunt & learn like the rest of us did...


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## hamma time (Sep 29, 2006)

i suck at yote hunting haha i wish i could go with someone who is successfull at callin em in but noone of my buddys go coyote so therefore i will educate more dogs i geuss


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