# Vortex Viper vs Leupold VX-3



## drh1175

I just purchased a a-bolt .300 win mag and am in the process of picking out some glass. I am looking at the Vortex Viper 3-9x40 for $300, Vortex Viper 4-12x40 for $400 or the VX-3 3.5-10x40 for $480. This will be my Elk Gun.Anyone have experience with these scopes what should I do?


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## huntin1

Of the two you named I would go Vortex. But then, Leupold lost its appeal to me years ago when the the old man died and their QC & CS went to heck. Wouldn't keep a Leupold now if it were given to me.

I would also look at the Nikon Monarch line. IMO better glass than the two you named.

Power range is mostly a personal preference in a hunting scope.

Huntin1


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## KurtR

midway has and exclusive vortex scope i would check out only problem it might be backordered it is so popular. I would go vortex my self i have binocs and spoting scope and very happy. cs is top notch if any thing would come up


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## Savage260

I have owned a good number of VXIIIs never a VX3, but I am sure they are pretty much the same, and 2 Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50s. I would go with the Vortex hands down. Better glass, better CS, the people at Vortex are just good people. I would rank em Vortex, Leupy, Nikon.


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## keenansnyder

huntin1 said:


> Of the two you named I would go Vortex. But then, Leupold lost its appeal to me years ago when the the old man died and their QC & CS went to heck. Wouldn't keep a Leupold now if it were given to me.
> 
> I would also look at the Nikon Monarch line. IMO better glass than the two you named.
> 
> Power range is mostly a personal preference in a hunting scope.
> 
> Huntin1


I don't know what Huntin1 is talking about. Leupold glass is amazing. I have never had anything wrong with them and their customer service is amazing and their warrenty is outstanding. a few years ago i had a sling break on my bull barrel 22-250 and it fell off my shoulder and landed on the scope. i sent it in to get it looked at and they gutted it, redid the gas, checked everything over and sent it back without no charge. they even sent me a certificate stating that i can sell it as new if i wanted because they redid the internal componants.

even their binoculars are great. I had a pair of binoculars that after yrs of beatings finally lots it waterproofing. I sent it into leupold and they didn't have that current model anymore. They instead sent me one of same value and free. Brand New!!!!

their clarity and quality is far more than the price paid. I won't buy any other glass but leupold


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## Plainsman

I have a Mark IV. It had problems and I sent it in. It came back with the same problem. Five shots were giving me two groups. I am off on a hunting trip or I would run down stairs and check my target. I think the groups were 1 or 1/2 inch apart, with one above the other. So I put on an 20 year old Bushnell Sportview and shot a 1/3 inch group and sent the scope back again with both targets. Same story, it comes back with no change. So I called their law enforcement division. Problem solved, however I will not buy another.

Now I have Vortex, Nikon, a couple of Bushnell, and an old Tasco World Class. I shot a Sightron for years and it was a very good scope. The only problem is I'm getting old and the memory isn't what it had been. With the 1/8 inch clicks it had I kept forgetting how many revolutions I had on the turrets. Ya, I should have marked them. I'm solving that problem now by putting 20 degree forward can't mounts on most of my rifles.


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## Savage260

Last time I used Leupy CS they were TERRIBLE!!! I send one of my VXIIIs 6.5-20X40 to get the Varmint Hunter's reticle put in to replace the thin cross hair. The guy at Leupy made me feel like it was a great favor they were providing for me, even though I was paying for the service. Yea, they have a warranty, but Vortex has the same warranty as far as I know. Leupy glass isn't any where near amazing, not even on their 1500 dollar scopes. Vortex glass is better IMO, not so sure about the Nikon, but the Monarchs are decent scopes.


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## KurtR

keenansnyder said:


> huntin1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Of the two you named I would go Vortex. But then, Leupold lost its appeal to me years ago when the the old man died and their QC & CS went to heck. Wouldn't keep a Leupold now if it were given to me.
> 
> I would also look at the Nikon Monarch line. IMO better glass than the two you named.
> 
> Power range is mostly a personal preference in a hunting scope.
> 
> Huntin1
Click to expand...

I don't know what Huntin1 is talking about. Leupold glass is amazing. I have never had anything wrong with them and their customer service is amazing and their warrenty is outstanding. a few years ago i had a sling break on my bull barrel 22-250 and it fell off my shoulder and landed on the scope. i sent it in to get it looked at and they gutted it, redid the gas, checked everything over and sent it back without no charge. they even sent me a certificate stating that i can sell it as new if i wanted because they redid the internal componants.

even their binoculars are great. I had a pair of binoculars that after yrs of beatings finally lots it waterproofing. I sent it into leupold and they didn't have that current model anymore. They instead sent me one of same value and free. Brand New!!!!

call and ask what is an aceptable amount of reticle cant. Glass is nothing to write home about for what you pay for it. I had a pair of leupy acadia binocs they now are my wifes due to getting the vortex


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## huntin1

What am I talking about? How about canted reticles, not just a little, but very noticably canted. Turrets that won't track correctly or return to zero. Noticable imperfections in the glass. Multiple trips back to the factory for problems that never do get fixed and then CS reps telling me that I'm too picky and that every scope has these same problems. When the old man was still alive and in charge their QC and CS were top notch. Would not consider anything that wasn't Leupold. Since he died and I started having issues, I wouldn't consider buying another.

You've had good luck with them, great. But there are lots of other scopes out there that are much better in quality and often less money than Leupold.

JMHO

huntin1


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## drh1175

Thank you for all info. I have a vx-ii and have been happy with. I have a Nikon prostaff and bought a buckmasters for my Father in law a couple years ago and have been happy with all. When I bought the gun I was going to buy a scope also but wasn't sure what to go with so I put it off. The sales guy showed me a leupold vx-3 with the B&C reticle. The Vortex and a Zeiss. I thought the Vortex was crisper than the Leupold and was $200 cheaper. The zeiss seemed the best but out of my price range. I know nothing about the Vortex The warranty looks great but wanted to know what some of you all thought. Thanks. What does everyone think about their reticles?


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## ruger1

I would say Leupold just because they have the CDS option. That is a sweet option. I would agree that there is better glass out there compared to Leupold, but with the CDS Leupold has really stepped up the game.


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## KurtR

cds = sales gimick you can do the same thing with any given scope with a little knowledge. All manufactures make a bds reticle of some sort if that is you cup of tea . cds plus 3% of aceptable scope(in leupys mind) cant equals miss.


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## ruger1

KurtR said:


> cds = sales gimick you can do the same thing with any given scope with a little knowledge. All manufactures make a bds reticle of some sort if that is you cup of tea . cds plus 3% of aceptable scope(in leupys mind) cant equals miss.


I am going to disagree here. I have been long range shooting for years using math, windage and holdover guestimates as well as mildot reticles with great sucess. The CDS makes all that so much simplier.

Unless you get a BDS reticle custom built for your loadings and that rifle, all the BDS off the shelf scopes can do is get you "close".

If you are offering advice without actually trying the CDS then I suggest you try it. If you have and just don't like it. Well, we all are allowed our opinions.


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## KurtR

cds is nothing new kenton industries have been building turrets the huskemaw scopes do the same thing. You are hamstringing your self to one load. What happens when you switch loads the turret is now worthless. Just get a scope with a matching reticle and turrets in either moa or mils what ever floats the boat.


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## ruger1

KurtR said:


> cds is nothing new kenton industries have been building turrets the huskemaw scopes do the same thing. You are hamstringing your self to one load. What happens when you switch loads the turret is now worthless. Just get a scope with a matching reticle and turrets in either moa or mils what ever floats the boat.


The limiting to one load was a concern. But if you have a load that shoots sub MOA at long ranges and the bullet is the right bullet for the target species there is little reason to change loadings.

Until the bullet manufacturer changes the bullet makeup on you.


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## specialpatrolgroup

I have both a Vortex and a Leupold on some of my rifles, quality wise I give the edge to Leupold, looking at the same target the Leupold seems a little sharper. That being said the Vortex is a good value for price\quality. You will probably be happy with either one, side by side I can see a differnce but when no comparison is present I am happy with the Vortex, and to tell the truth I would probably look at another vortex if I needed a new scope due to the lower price. Vortex also has a very good reputation in the customer service department.


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## Savage260

SPG, are you talking a Vortex Viper, and a Leupy VX3 or just any Vortex and Leupy?


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## KurtR

if we were talking any vortex vs any leupy the razor is end of discusion


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## Savage260

Kurt, for that price, it dang well better be!!!! Actually what I was getting at was is SPG using a Diamondback or Crossfire vs a VX3, or is it more reasonable like a Crossfire vs a Rifleman, or a Razor vs MK4.


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## specialpatrolgroup

I am comparing my VX-3L (3.5-10, 50mm 1in tube) to my Viper PST (4-16, 50mm, 30mm tube), on the same magnification. It seems like there is a little better clarity reading the numbers of a mailbox down the street.


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## KurtR

Savage260 said:


> Kurt, for that price, it dang well better be!!!! Actually what I was getting at was is SPG using a Diamondback or Crossfire vs a VX3, or is it more reasonable like a Crossfire vs a Rifleman, or a Razor vs MK4.


have you seen some of the prices of the new leupys they make s&b bender look like a bargain


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## Savage260

SPG, it is funny how each individual is different! I would put my Vipers not even PST models ahead of any and all my Leupys. Just how your eye is different from mine!

Kurt, no, I haven't looked at Leupy for quite a while now after buying Sightrons, IORs, and NF. Kinda like huntin1, I won't buy another.........although I would take one if given to me!


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## huntin1

Well I'd probably take one if someone gave it to me.  There are a lot of misinformed people out there, I'm sure I could sell it to some one and then use the money to buy a decent scope. :lol:

Personally, I have not seen a VX-3 That will come close to my Monarch.

huntin1


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## ruger1

huntin1 said:


> Personally, I have not seen a VX-3 That will come close to my Monarch.
> 
> huntin1


We noticed that to and for the life of me I cannot figure out why.


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## huntin1

ruger1 said:


> We noticed that to and for the life of me I cannot figure out why.


Because Nikon is making better scopes than Leupold, perhaps?


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## Plainsman

I am sitting on an old 1982 or 83 Leupold VXII 3X9 Tactical. I like more power so don't use it. As a matter of fact it has nearly no use and few nearly indistinguishable marks. I thought about advertising it on sites like Sniper Country, but I think you need 100 posts or something like that. I see they go for around $400 and I could not figure out why because I paid $283 for it. I don't know if it's inflation or quality. $400 would be great because I would only have to add another $100 for another Vortex 6.5X20 .


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## ruger1

huntin1 said:


> ruger1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We noticed that to and for the life of me I cannot figure out why.
> 
> 
> 
> Because Nikon is making better scopes than Leupold, perhaps?
Click to expand...

Better scope for a lesser price? NICE!


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## huntin1

ruger1 said:


> huntin1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ruger1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We noticed that to and for the life of me I cannot figure out why.
> 
> 
> 
> Because Nikon is making better scopes than Leupold, perhaps?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Better scope for a lesser price? NICE!
Click to expand...

Isn't it though? Part of the problem is people like you perpetuating the myth that Leupold scopes are still the gold standard by which all others are judged. At one time that was true, but not anymore. Hype and name recognition is only going to carry them so far, sooner or later they will have to get back to making the quality scopes that they used to or go under.

When you compare a VX-3 4.5x14 AO to the closest Nikon Monarch the 4x16 SF, the Nikon is about $150 cheaper. Compare them side by side in the field and the Nikon is clearer, sharper and brighter. And it's reticle isn't canted way off and the turrets actually track correctly and return to zero. Amazing.

But, hey, it's your money. If you want to pay more for a lesser scope just so you can say, "I got a Luppy". Have at it.

huntin1


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## ruger1

I am certain I never said Leupold was the "gold standard". Look up if you don't beleive me. I said their CDS option was sweet. The gold standard is Swarovski. That is who all should be compared to. Of course we are talking apples vs. Oranges there.

I persoally haven't seen the physical defects that you keep bellaring about. Of course I am not the one who appears to have an adgenda.

For the record I did not buy a Ranger so I could be a "Ranger guy" (I bought a better boat for less money). I doubt I will buy a Leupold just to say "I am a Leupold guy". Thanks for your concern though.


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## Plainsman

Leupold's customer service is poor also. I mark my mounts on the bottom so if I remove them and use something else and can find the old mounts again. On my Remington model 700P I marked the bottom with my Dremel (700P) but when I went to install the mount one hole on the back mount was off center. I sent them back and three weeks later I got a package that said replaced at no charge. When I opened it the back mount bottom side had the mark 700P. They didn't have the brains to notice and sent the same mounts back. Very impressive, but not in a good way.


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## barebackjack

I compared comparable models, Vortex Viper side by side to a 6-18x Leupold VXII, live fire on the range.

Hands down the VXII was the better optical quality, especially above 8x or so. Ive owned a lot of Leupold products (even new stuff), and have had excellent luck with all of it.

That being said, im a BIG Vortex fan also. Theres a whole lot of bang for your buck with Vortex. I have a set of Vortex bino's, and a Vortex spotter, and I LOVE them.

If Swarovski made a spotting scope in the $600 range, im sure my Vortex would be comparable.


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## Savage260

Ruger1, what kind of boat did you get? Better than Ranger for less $$$??? I am in the market for a new boat!

Now we have a VXII better than the Vortex. It is all in the EYE of the beholder! I am not sold on Swaro. I don't have enough cash to try em against my IORs and NF, but I can't see how it can be any better. I guess I will have to break down and buy one some day!


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## ruger1

Savage260 said:


> Ruger1, what kind of boat did you get? Better than Ranger for less $$$??? I am in the market for a new boat!
> 
> Now we have a VXII better than the Vortex. It is all in the EYE of the beholder! I am not sold on Swaro. I don't have enough cash to try em against my IORs and NF, but I can't see how it can be any better. I guess I will have to break down and buy one some day!


I cannot speak to Swaro scopes. However I have put Swaro spotting scopes and binos up against the same power/size of other brands and the Swaro killed them. We were looking at elk and bear about 2000 yards away.

Boat: 2011 Skeeter WX 1850

-WX1850 with F150 main motor (Full Windshield) 
-T9 Kicker with prop guard 
-Terrova 101# with I-Pilot 
-Minn Kota 4 bank charger 
-Ranger Rails (44") instead of the 60" Skeeter Rails to make room for the downriggers 
-Bert's Tracks (6") for downriggers 
-Bow Rails 
-Marine Radio with 8' Antenna 
-AM/FM CD Player (a must as per Nicole) 
-Skeeter Travel Cover 
-Bike Seat with hydraulic pedestal 
-Keel Guard 
-Main motor hour meter 
-HB 997 at helm
-HB 917 in bow 
-6 Cannon Rod Holders


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## barebackjack

Savage260 said:


> Ruger1, what kind of boat did you get? Better than Ranger for less $$$??? I am in the market for a new boat!
> 
> Now we have a VXII better than the Vortex. It is all in the EYE of the beholder! I am not sold on Swaro. I don't have enough cash to try em against my IORs and NF, but I can't see how it can be any better. I guess I will have to break down and buy one some day!


See, and im not entirely thrilled with NF's optical quality (and im not the only one). Not nearly the quality one would expect from a $2K scope (but at the same time, not bad either). Mechanical durability, yes, probably the best (an important feature no doubt). But their optical quality is not even close to its price point IMO.

The Viper line of scopes is really price pointed to compete with the VXII line of Leupolds. (Viper 6.5-20x44 @ $500, versus a Leupold VXII 6-18x40 @ $530). The Viper is a good scope, but the Leupold very clearly started to pull ahead at the higher powers. Which was the general concensus among several people.

I would put either one on a rifle in a heartbeat.


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## Plainsman

BBJ I have noticed on my Vortex that I loose some eye relief starting at 16X. I called and talked to them at Vortex and they thanked me for the feedback. That scope is 6.5 to 20. I traded off my 6 to 18 Leupold. They eye relief was constant, but it started to loose clarity at about 14 power.

The Vortex is on a 6.5X284 so I don't need to worry much about recoil and eye relief. The loss of clarity is a problem on any rifle. I do think that Leupold was a bit of a lemon though. I say that because I could not focus the crosshairs correctly. There was always one semi clear cross hair, and another very dull second image. I sent that in also, and it came back the same. I have six or seven Nikons that I like, but one bad one I did get came back the same from Nikon also. So I'm not happy with their customer service. That scope had no numbers on the elevation turret. Not much good knowing where your at in elevation. Really dumb to return it the same. Someone screwed up big time. It's not like it cost a mint to replace a turret.

The best customer service I have had was with Sightron and Vortex. Both simply replaced scopes no questions beyond my explanation of what I was dissatisfied with.


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## Savage260

Poor optical quality on the NF? First I have ever heard that. I guess I don't see any difference between the IOR and NF, and I have read tons of reviews about how great the IOR glass is. Either one can be used as a hammer if you lose one, or if you run out of rounds you can club people to death with them. Good thing I got mine before the prices went up, and I got a pretty decent discount on top of it. I have had a good number of people shoot and or look through my NF and IORs and they are amazed with the glass. Of course most of them shoot Leupys!!! :wink:

ruger1, I have never heard any one say a Skeeter was better than a Ranger, but after checking out the website, the model you have is the only one I would want as I have a young family and want to keep the kids inside the boat! If you wouldn't mind shooting me a PM with a rough price? It looks a lot like the Stratos 386 XF. Your setup is quite similar to what I want, just not as many rails, and no kicker. I have been getting some stupid high quotes from ND dealers on the Stratos.


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## huntin1

Ruger1. I don't have an agenda. I just think that there are several scopes out there that are better than Leupold and cost less. I did say that its your money, buy what you want.

We disagree on the gold standard too, I'd lean more to Schmidt & Bender as being the one to compare to. 

Huntin1


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## KurtR

if talking just glass the swaro might be up there but start comparing other stuff such as reticle turrets and such they dont even make the top 5. if german scopes are you huckleberry check the hendsolts as i would but them right up there with the schmidts as the standard. Kahles has also thrown thier hat in to the perspective mix with the new high end offerings. premier no slouch either dont know if i would want 2500 invested in a company you really dont know if it is going to be around the next day. ior and sighttron have both been reviewed stellar. us optics is another if you want a more customized scope but have also heard to some the glass is not amazing. Optics "clarity" can be subjective but other stuff such as returning to zero and cant in reticles is not and the is where the leupys are left in the dust. with all the scopes sold you are going to have a failure stuff breaks that is a fact it is how that failure is taken care of that many will report and one bad one will be heard 20 times over than the good one


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## barebackjack

Savage260 said:


> Poor optical quality on the NF? First I have ever heard that. I guess I don't see any difference between the IOR and NF, and I have read tons of reviews about how great the IOR glass is.


LOTS of threads on several other sites, as well as a couple independant optical rating sites that barely even include NF when it comes to optical quality of the "big $$$" scopes (NF, S&B, IOR, Hensoldt, USO, Swaro, Premier, March).


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## barebackjack

Plainsman said:


> BBJ I have noticed on my Vortex that I loose some eye relief starting at 16X. I called and talked to them at Vortex and they thanked me for the feedback. That scope is 6.5 to 20. I traded off my 6 to 18 Leupold. They eye relief was constant, but it started to loose clarity at about 14 power.


I've noticed the same phenomenon in a few Nikon scopes. "Variable eye relief", hahahaha.


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## Longshot

I have a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x40 that is a few years old and a new Vortex Viper HS 4-16x44 ($90 Cheaper in price). Side by side at the range I like the Vortex even if they were the same price. Don't get me wrong, I like my Leupold. 4.5-14x40 at only 13 oz. works great on my Kimber Montana 308 and keeps the weight down. I also still have an older 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 that I like, but the newer 6.5-20 Mark 4 just wasn't near a good and I ended up selling it.

As for Nikon, I will never buy another. Too much past history with Nikon that wasn't good with their scopes, binos, and survey instruments. The new ones do look nice and clear, but the BDC circles look like they would cover up an elephant at 100 yards and the clicks on their turrets just don't come out as accurate as others (especially the 1/8" scopes).

Ruger1;

I am looking at getting a CDS for my Leupold. If you look at Vortex they do they also offer custom turrets to fit your load.


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