# baiting?



## dogdigger

is it legal to bait in ND?

mark


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## Bob Kellam

only if you are fishing 

Bob


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## dogdigger

so it is illegal to bait deer in ND? so the guy with all the corn under his stand i found today is breaking the law? :eyeroll:


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## Bob Kellam

From the *North Dakota Century Code*

*20.1-01-05. Unauthorized methods of taking game birds and game animals.* 
Except as otherwise provided in this title, no person, for the purpose of catching, taking, killing, or raising
any game birds or game animals may:
1. Set, lay, or prepare any trap, snare, artificial light, net, birdlime, swivel gun, or any
other device, except that the use of snares for taking coyotes is allowed under
section 20.1-07-03.1;
2. Drag, in any manner, any wire, rope, or other contrivance; or
3. Use or cause to be used, except for transportation, any floating device or apparatus
operated by electricity, steam, or gasoline, or any other floating vessel.


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## smalls

Bob, that doesn't cover manipulating feed and baiting, I believe it is legal in ND!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

I think it's legal as well. We should get some official wording on this matter because :sniper: I know many people that use apples to bait deer for their bowhunting.


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## Bob Kellam

I take "set, lay, or prepare any trap" as good enough for me to not bait, I think if baiting were legal it would also apply to waterfowl and if I remember right that is a big NO NO!

I may very well be wrong though, G-Men where are you?

Bob


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## Ron Gilmore

ND currently does not have a bating law for deer. However it was a hot topic at one of the Advisory meetings in Casselton. You have those that say it encourages and creates better sots for bow hunters reducing wounding. Others look at it as unethical and can cause spreading of disease in our herds.

Not sure if this is coming up in the leg this session or if the G&F will come down on one side or the other or remain neutral on this issue. Having seen baiting go to extremes in WI, I can say that some regulations need to be in place.


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## smalls

Baiting for waterfowl is a statute set under the Federal guidelines for migratory birds. I don't bait, but I have always understood it legal for deer. Like you said, some official clarification would be great.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Bob, I agree but for the sake of argument..... (and I know this is apples to oranges).....You can hunt pheasants/deer in standing/rolled crop, but not waterfowl. Waterfowl has different rules on everything it seems.


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## Bob Kellam

You are right smalls  Waterfowl is federal, I guess I really do not know I have always thought that is was illegal as it was never spelled out that it was a legal practice. If it is legal to do I would be against it.

come on G-Men make up a name and answer this for us.

Bob


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## goosehtr4life

I know it is legal to bait for bowhunting...I do not know for rifle.....


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## Powder

Usually laws are written only to prohibit certain things. If it doesn't say it's illegal, then it's legal. It would be impossible to list all the legal activities that people could do. This wouldn't be just for hunting but all laws in general.


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## dakotashooter2

It IS NOT prohibited, however if I find your bait pile it will be well distributed. If you need to depend on a bait pile then you haven't done your homework.


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## buckseye

If you find my baitpile you are tresspassing, you are a great sporstsman!!


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## bretts

Dakotashooter is exactly right. If you need a bait pile to get your deer, then you mine as well go to texas and shoot deer fenced in. Baiting is just as bad as fenced in game ranches!


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## huntin1

bretts said:


> Dakotashooter is exactly right. If you need a bait pile to get your deer, then you mine as well go to texas and shoot deer fenced in. Baiting is just as bad as fenced in game ranches!


God I hate it when people try to push THEIR ethics off on me. Baiting as bad as fenced in ranches, what are you smoking, how about antler rattling and making mock scrapes, pretty much the same thing, manipulating the environment to entice deer to come to where you are. I suppose you are one of those who thinks that the only method for taking deer is to get out and walk them up, so you can shoot them in the *** as they run away from you.

"dakotashooter2 wrote: It IS NOT prohibited, however if I find your bait pile it will be well distributed. If you need to depend on a bait pile then you haven't done your homework."

Then you would be breaking the law and subject to arrest, fine sportsmanship there dakotashooter. And yet another fine example of someone trying to push their ethics off on someone else.

From the ND Century Code:
20.1-01-31. Interference with rights of hunters and trappers. No person may intentionally interfere with the lawful taking of wildlife on public or private land by another or intentionally harass, drive, or disturb any wildlife on public or private land for the purpose of disrupting a lawful hunt.

uke: to both of you

huntin1


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## GooseBuster3

I dont take to highly to people who hunt over bait piles either.


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## north14

Baiting deer is legal in N.D., and yes I bait for bowhunting, and yes I do my homework and yes if I find you distributing my bait pile you will be turned in for tresspassing and will probably find a boot up your a$$. Just because you don't think it's the right way to hunt don't push your views on to everyone else, especially for doing something that is perfectly legal. Just kidding about the boot!


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## buckseye

Has anyone ever hunted a waterhole on a hot Sept. day for deer? It is way better than any baitpile could ever be, the deer are extremely thirsty and have to drink or die and or drink and die anyway. 

I suppose you baithaters don't like baiting traps to kill coyotes either and to me there is no difference. One is to get food and the other is to not let the coyote get your food, so it's all about food in the end. 8)


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## MossyMO

Is it unethical to use bait when fishing then? Or is that a totally different subject? Hhmmm........


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

I guess I'm not sure what the big deal is about baiting? Most people I know that "bait" for deer do it to see if their are many deer in the area. They go out and look to see if the apples have been eaten and look for the size of tracks. I'm not sure if they shoot over the pile of apples or not I guess!!?!?!?!?!?


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## Ron Gilmore

For me the issue is not about ethics but more about spread of disease and the unnatural congregation of animals in an area for periods beyond normal use.

Having seen the effects of this in WI when I hunted and lived there I can tell you unrestricted baiting is bad for the overall health of the deer. Most, not all people using baiting stop at the end of the season. This can and does put the animals using the baited area at risk from starvation and exposure.

It is one of the reasons that the G&F tell people if you start to feed deer you better continue until spring, or do not do it at all. Concerns of spread of communicable disease beyond CWD are another concern. Those that do have not at any time been able to prove that the study done by the DNR from MI and WI that stated baiting is bad deer management for a host of reasons.

Science and biology are my reasons, not misguided beliefs held by those that use this practice.


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## GooseBuster3

You guys try to make yourselves feel better, and think whay you think. But why do you think the G&F are looking into making baiting illegal? Its the soul reason as what Mr. Gilmore said.


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## dakotashooter2

First off guys if your bait is on posted land I won't have found it so you don't have to worry about me. Remember I said IF and I said DISTRIBUTED not gone. Baiting is very difficult to define and is a fair chase issue with me. While there is very little difference I do make a distinction beween artificially placed bait and natuaral attractants, which to some extent could be considered a bait. An apple tree or grove is there year round and drops it's fruit within a fairly consistent time period. I have to do my homework to determine when the deer will show but have little control over from which direction or exactly when those apples will drop. Placing those apples along a trail miles from an apple tree is baiting to me as I may have an influence in game travel. That is, placing food in an unnatural area to attract game to a very specific (several foot) area. I consider food plots to be baiting when they are specifically grown for the benefit of game and of a size that allows the hunter to harvest game at any point in the plot from a single position. This would change with the weapon used. For bow hunting that may be a plot of 200' x 200'. For a gun that would be more like 4 or 5 hundred yards. I do not consider crops grown for harvest as baited areas no matter what the size because these areas usually provide at least some food at ALL stages of development and post harvest and cover during some periods.
Are scents bait. maybe, maybe not. While some hunters claim scents to be the get all I have had very limited success with them. Generally game based scents are going to be natural to any area that holds game. Using them out of season can be a detriment. They tend to be more of a point of a curiosity than a lure. I'm sure some will argue. Game feeders are baiting. I don't care if they are used year round. They bring game to a very specific place at a specific time for a specific reason. Baiting, baiting, baiting, baiting. Water holes. Not an issue in my area. In over 25 years of hunting I have only seen deer come to water maybe 1/2 dozen times. And I never saw the same waterhole used again. Please note these are my own personal fair chase standards. I don't expect everyone to agree with them one way or another. Very deliberate and obvious baiting practices really get my goat though.


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## huntin1

Well guys, I don't bait deer, but I don't look down my nose at those who do like some of you. As long as it is legal I have no problem with it. However, doing things like dakotashooter said that he would do, "distribute" a bait pile, that is interfering with another hunter, and is against the law regardless of your ethics and how you feel about baiting. This is what I have a problem with, IMO when you violate this law you are on the same level as a poacher.

And I am really sick of people trying to impose their ethics on everyone around them. As long as a person is pursuing his sport within the limits of the law, MIND YOUR OWN DAMN BUSINESS, if you see him breaking a law, then it is your responsibility as a sportsman to report him. However, it is not your responsibility to insist he is wrong because he is not doing something the way YOU think it should be done.

huntin1


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## dakotashooter2

Sometimes there is a fine line between ethics and the law. I have often quit hunting before sunset because it was so dark you couldn't see 20 feet much less reliably identify a target. Legally someone could have and probably did hunt until 1/2 hr. after those days. Is that Ethical? Or even safe. On the other hand I have been out on evenings of a full moon over a snow covered field. I quit at the legal time but on such nights it is lighter 1/2 hr. after legal shooting times than it was 1/2hr. prior to in the previous situation and theoretically more ethical (abeit the legal aspect). Should we be allowed to hunt longer in those situations? So which is right? How do you regulate shooting hours by available light? You can't. As far as busting bait piles I was blowing smoke to get my point across. I have only busted one bait and that was on land which only I had permission to hunt. The owner was allerted of the situation. Keep in mind guys hunting over bait is not considered fair chase by many of the record books.


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## GooseBuster3

Huntin1, thanks dad.... :roll:


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## duckslayer

:sniper:


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## huntin1

GooseBuster3 said:


> Huntin1, thanks dad.... :roll:


Your welcome

huntin1


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## bretts

God I hate it when people try to push THEIR ethics off on me. Baiting as bad as fenced in ranches, what are you smoking, how about antler rattling and making mock scrapes, pretty much the same thing, manipulating the environment to entice deer to come to where you are. I suppose you are one of those who thinks that the only method for taking deer is to get out and walk them up, so you can shoot them in the a$$ as they run away from you.

Good one! First of all you need to get a life. I was saying my opinion and obviously you can't handle what other people think. Second of all, i dont push deer. I use my bow for about any tag i have. I don't like it when people push deer, but its not the worst thing in the world. You really gotta a lot of nerve making assumptions on here. Your probably some half a$$ hunter that thinks you know what your doing. Baiting isn't my style and i don't seem to have any problems scoring on a mature buck year after year.

Bowhunting is life


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## bretts

Goosebuster3 and dakotashooter are exactly right. Honestly how sportman like is it to bait deer. I wouldn't doubt it if baiting is ruled illegal within the next 5 years by the G&F. So if they outlaw it, then HUNTIN1 there's your answer! UNETHICAL


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## dogdigger

i didnt as about ethics, just about the law. baiting and using a deer scent likes tinks 69 are the exact same. same as rattling.

mark


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## farmerj

GooseBuster3 said:


> You guys try to make yourselves feel better, and think whay you think. But why do you think the G&F are looking into making baiting illegal? Its the soul reason as what Mr. Gilmore said.


It would be a tool, just as this years extended season.

The deer will group up no matter what. It happens every winter. I have seen herds as big as 100+ growing up when I would have nothing to do but go into the woods. Especially when it gets cold and the snow gets deep. Like in January or Februrary. Long AFTER hunting season is over.

Farmers need to concider opening their land as well. (start the debate on that one). They are the ones getting the difference checks, the crop checks for a POOR harvest, the bonus checks for a bumper crop, CRP checks, Name it. I have worked for farmers, I have relatives that are farmers. I am not ignorant of what they have, their fight or there benefits.

Now, come crying to me about how bad farming is, when I see so many of the farmers driving a new $40,000 pick up or buying a number of $100,000 peices of equipment.

My uncles have deer problems, they invite all the relatives to come deer hunting, "sit here, Watch this group of trees". There are years in a row when we have been able to count 24-30 deer off the SAME 800 acres. The population is just too high.

Now close that land and what are you creating, a safe haven. I hope they decimate your crops. These herds will spread disease faster than any baitpile will.

So someone tries to bait to keep them in the river bottoms, or out of the fields. So long as it is controlled, which most bait pile are or would be, they are a tool as your scents, rattling and mock scrapes are which has already been pointed out. A man made device used to change or manipulate the animals behavior. In other words, a TOOL

Personally I don't think you should be able to us anything LESS than a .24 cal rifle, but I don't sit here and hound on the ones that do. If you can get it to work for you , Great, But you are still using a rifle for something it wasn't intended for. Just be happy for now the G&F agree with you.

Baiting is another persons chosen tool because it works for them. Get over it. So long as G&f says it is legal, people will use it.

Instead of bickering over how "unethical" an extended season is, we should focus more on doing what the G&F wants us to do. Shoot more deer.

Was talking to a guy yesterday at work, (sportsman's Warehouse). He was watching a game preserve during deer season and the deer are just walking into the farmers field next door, around 30-40 is what he said he counted. The farmer has the land posted, but is complaining about the damage they are doing to his crops. You couldn't get on the land unless you paid. So be it. The deer will continue to eat his crops at a rate faster than anyone will pay to hunt them. And he will loose more money than he will ever gain.


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## GooseBuster3

I have seen myself in areas out west where people have put fences around there bait pile that are 28 inches wide so when a 28 in+ muley walks into hat cage there antlers get caught in the wire so the hunter can get 1-2 shot off before the buck gets out. You think this is ethical... uke: Im sure ALOT of bow hunters do this and it just makes a guysick.


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## farmerj

GooseBuster3 said:


> I have seen myself in areas out west where people have put fences around there bait pile that are 28 inches wide so when a 28 in+ muley walks into hat cage there antlers get caught in the wire so the hunter can get 1-2 shot off before the buck gets out. You think this is ethical... uke: Im sure ALOT of bow hunters do this and it just makes a guysick.


I would need to see pictures of this one....

If it is the case and real, then I would question the guy who is hunting.


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## buckseye

:toofunny:


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## GooseBuster3

Ill get pics the next time Im out west. And of all people it is a bow hunting operation. We where glassing a big buck on this leased land and he walked right into the trap. Luckly there was nobody in the stand 15-30 yards from it. I just couldnt believe it.


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## farmerj

buckseye said:


> :toofunny:


Agreeing... :withstupid:


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## buckseye

It's illegal to snare deer.... Many years ago there was a local guide who used to do that with barb wire, then his shooters would just walk up and shoot if they wanted it. He was caught and I haven't heard of anyone doing that in over 30 years. :toofunny:


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## GooseBuster3

**** then Im calling the game and fish right now.


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## huntin1

bretts said:


> Good one! First of all you need to get a life. I was saying my opinion and obviously you can't handle what other people think. Second of all, i dont push deer. I use my bow for about any tag i have. I don't like it when people push deer, but its not the worst thing in the world. You really gotta a lot of nerve making assumptions on here. Your probably some half a$$ hunter that thinks you know what your doing. Baiting isn't my style and i don't seem to have any problems scoring on a mature buck year after year.
> 
> Bowhunting is life


Well sonny, I've been bowhunting deer since 1976, have you even been alive that long. Baiting isn't my style either but I don't make stupid statements like the one you made comparing the baiting of free ranging deer to shooting them in fenced enclosures.

Baiting is a tool just like attractant scents, rattling, calling etc. Right now it is legal, so I have no problem with it. If the G&F decides that it should not be done and makes it illegal then I will have a problem with people who do it.

And I don't think I know what I'm doing, I know I know what I'm doing, with a bow, rifle and muzzleloader.

huntin1


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## north14

GB3, why did'nt you call the warden and turn these people in. Do you actually believe that a lot of bow hunters do these things? Sure, there are some bad things that go on but to say that a lot of bowhunters would do this is exactly what the anti- hunting groups love to promote. We don't need statements like this on this site. :eyeroll:


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## buckseye

I think goosehunters should have to hunt without decoys.... it's gotta be bad if you need decoys to get a dumb ol goose. :lol:


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## bretts

Baiting is not the same as deer scents or rattling. Deer scents are natural, rattling is deer behavior, baiting umm..a salt lick is natural right under your stand? or a pile of corn is natural right under your stand? no, you obviously you put them there. Using scents and rattling is tricking the deer using there own tools, tricking a deer by luring it in to eat some commercial salt lick, apple lick, corn pile etc. is not a natural means of tricking your mature buck. Huntin1, I have only been bowhunting for the past 6 years but have shot 5 big mature bucks. So obviously I do know what I am doing, because I use the right tools, do my homework, and I am doing just fine. You may have more years hunting on me, but obviously im doing something right.


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## Shu

bretts said:


> Baiting is not the same as deer scents or rattling. Deer scents are natural, rattling is deer behavior, baiting umm..a salt lick is natural right under your stand? or a pile of corn is natural right under your stand? no, you obviously you put them there. Using scents and rattling is tricking the deer using there own tools, tricking a deer by luring it in to eat some commercial salt lick, apple lick, corn pile etc. is not a natural means of tricking your mature buck. quote]
> 
> I agree with Bretts - great post!


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## duckslayer

:sniper:


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## north14

Baiting is legal in N.D. If you so called Sportsman want to bash other Sportsman for doing something legal pertaining to hunting than go join PETA, thats what they love to do.


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## dakotashooter2

Lets be clear. Ethics is what distinguishes hunting as a "sport' rather than a simple "bloodletting". If iminent survival is dependent on the harvest of game then the "success at all costs" is validated however for most of us this harvest is not a life and death proposition. We are not born with ethics/ morality. It is something learned from our surroundings. A consensus of accepted behavior. If someone (such as myself) is not imposing higher standards of behavior upon others, human behavior has demonstrated that those standards that exist will tend to degrade. I don't expect everyone to agree or accept my standards I only hope to enlighten some of the possibilities.In the case of hunting we are pitting mans advantage of intelligence and weaponry against our games advantage of improved senses and instincts. As many hunters mature (in knowledge and skill) ethic often tend to elevate to a higher personal standard. Often we try to impose those standards on others before they are ready for them. Most of us have been or are going throught the various levels of hunter development. We look back and wish we had always held ourselves to the ethical standards we are at now and continue seeking to "raise the bar". With many "the kill" is no longer the issue. Personally,"Counting Coupe" is more enjoyable than the harvest itself. That is not saying that I won't harvest when it feels right. Criticise me if you want for trying to "raise the bar" but I see the future of our sport being dependent on it. Legal sometimes forgets to stop at ethical.


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## north14

Dakotashooter2, earlier you said if you came across a bait pile you would distribute it. Is that how you would impose your "personal higher standards " on someone who is hunting within the law? If so, I hope there are'nt many more sportsman like you out there. The only thing that will keep this sport alive is working together and being open-minded about all of the different ways we use to harvest game. If you want to impose higher standards go after the slobs who are breaking laws and giving everyone a bad name. We all need to imrove on doing that.


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## goosehtr4life

:eyeroll: dacotashooter......

with your logic we should not be able to hunt geese in a field with any "bait on it" without crops those geese would not be landing in the field with you decoys on it....lighted up...you have your opinions which are fine...but to look down your nose at others who are hunting within the law is wrong...It makes you sound like your better than they are...People that like to put other people down usually have a low opinion of themselves...later


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## dakotashooter2

Correct, baiting IS legal in ND. I have no legal basis to keep you from doing it. You must have missed my "blowing smoke" statement. It worked though because it got some thinking. Legal doesn't mean it is ethical. Keep in mind that it is not only my viewpoint that that will preserve hunting. While sportsmen as a group have much pull we need to keep the non-hunters on our side. When it comes to Hunters vs Antis it's the guys in the middle, the non-hunters that keep the pendulum swinging our way. Some surveys have shown that it is the ethical aspects that keep them on our side. Many are standing on the line ready to go the other way, where baiting or other ethics become the issue. Though I have never done it, at one time I viewed baiting as OK. As I mentioned, as you mature as a hunter attitudes often change. As far as feeling I'm better than anyone else, not better, just different. Where have I picked on any particular persons? I have only demonstrated my disapproval of the activity of baiting in general. Have I ever stated any derogetory comments (eg. lazy or lowlifes) of those who choose to bait? I have only asked that each person look within themself and re-evaluate their stand on this issue. My signature line on another site is "Just another worthless opinion" Take that however you will.


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## Plainsman

The fence and bait pile that goosbuster3 is talking about I think were traps that were set by a graduate student that was studying deer in the badlands. At least that is the type of trap UND students were using in the 1980's. This is the way rumors start, and vandalism occurs to scientific studies.

I don't bait myself but like others on here don't go off the deep end because others do. Divide and conquer has been the strategy of many aggressive nations when they seek world conquest. Likewise the anti hunting people use the same techniques. They try to divide archers and gun hunters, fishermen and hunters, compound shooters and traditional bow hunters. It is sad how easily we are divided and the more holy than thou crowd are damaging to the sport. As damaging as or more so than the very practices they consider unethical.

If you don't like a practice call the game and fish, talk to representatives, and try to change it in a professional manner. Attacking fellow sportsmen for current legal activities is irresponsible, counterproductive, and you are shooting yourself in the foot. You can say you think a certain practice makes the sport to easy, but please don't call it unethical. This simply attacks your fellow sportsmen and adds credence to anti hunting rhetoric.

The word ethical has been used to the same extent as "politically correct". It is used when no one can find a better reason to knock a fellow sportsman. Baiting in small piles will not spread disease. If it remains legal I would agree that piles must not exceed one gallon available at any one time. This preserves the practice, but removes the disease threat.

I get uptight when I hear the word ethical because I know a fellow who will talk your arm off all night about ethical hunting, then hit's the field and is the first person to violate all the things he condemns in public. One thing you learn in law enforcement is that everyone who is friendly with you isn't you buddy. Many like to talk about what they think should be against the law, or report other people. Criminals like to throw you off by playing psychological games with you. This makes me always suspect the more holy than thou crowd.


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## headhunter

Like someone said, its "pushing ethics"......I personally don't think shooting small bucks is "ethical" (or challenging for that matter).....I think its stupid, If your gonna do that than shoot a doe, not a little helpless buck that could be a nice buck someday if someone without a stitch of self control didn't blow him away....THATS enethical in my opinion, but try telling somebody who kills the first thing with horns that and he'll tell you where to go. He'll say "you do your thing, but don't tell ME what to do.."

Its no different with baiting.......Have you ever tryed to get into archery range with a Whitetail on flat open praire with no waterhole or no bait pile or no trees?????? Its harder than you THINK!!!!


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## Plainsman

I hear you headhunter, and glad to hear you again. I have been about 90% successful in targeting female fawns. I had four doe permits this year and shot four fawns. I did goof on one, but rarely do. I do this from a biological and humane perspective. I think that if I shoot the doe I greatly decrease the survival chances of the fawns, and I don't like to see animals starve or die in any slow manner. Also, the survival of the mature doe lends itself to a healthier herd. She has larger fawns, provides more milk for the fawns, and fawns with an experienced mature doe have a better chance of survival through predator avoidance, habitat use, etc. 
I would like to see a buck license that would allow a person to shoot a doe on the last week -end. Many people want venison and shoot the small bucks for meat. These people want a chance at a trophy, but would be perfectly happy with a doe for meat, if they have no opportunity for a mature buck. If the last week-end provided buck hunters a choice we could preserve more bucks, increase the average buck size, and keep everyone more happy than now.


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## buckseye

I think you are right Plainsman.... with change always on our minds these days I think that changing buck for doe on the last weekend is a great idea that would yield excellent results if we would give it time.

Sometimes I think the G&F don't stick with some of their ideas long enuff, they have to listen to all the impatience of the busy weekend hunters and seem to make to many changes to fast sometimes. Just my opinion.


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## Bobm

> I think you are right Plainsman


 I'll second that Buckseye hes right on on all these issues. :beer: He would make a good governor for you guys!


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## bretts

I agree with you guys that it would be awesome to shoot a doe the last weekend with your gun tag, but then there are some issues that need to be addressed when you consider doing this. It makes it a lot harder for the G&F to get a good assessment of the deer herd if they aren't sure if the hunter shoots a doe or buck. Obviously they send out those letter asking you what you shot and where, but not everybody sends that survey back in. I think the route would be to lower the costs of doe tags to about $10.00 and that would be a good start. Maybe for one year they could have that your buck tag is equal to a doe tag the last weekend and send out surveys and see how the response is, and if they are able to get a good understanding of what was shot then continue with it. Just a few suggestions to ponder?


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## gaddyshooter

There are a lot of different standards that people go by as "ethical" accoring to what they believe in and probably what their father or grandfather taught them to do. It is illegal to "bait" deer down here so it is a mute point here, but if it is legal up there, I personall dont see anything wrong with it. It just brings deer into a certain area so the hunter can kill the deer. If you dont want to hunt over bait, then dont. Pretty simple. I also agree with the others who have mentioned deer in estres scents, grunt calls, rattling horns etc. They are all designed to bring deer to an area so a hunter can kill them. Again, dont use them if you dont want to. Doesnt make another wrong if they choose to use them.

Like I said there are different standards for different people. Ever since I have been old enough to hunt, we have had to use shotguns and deer slugs only. No rifles of any kind. So to me it really doesnt seem like much of a challenge and real ethical to be able to go out and shoot a deer at 300 yards. I am sure that not many people who live in a state that allows rifles will agree with me on this one. It is all what you are used to.

I agree also with the person above who mentioned the unnatural congregating of deer and the possible spread of disease.If your G & F is going to allow baiting, them maybe some regulations should be in place about the amout of bait allowed and/or the time length that a bait pile can be left in place. If they outlaw it, as our Dept of Nat Resources has, then so be it, but I cant find any fault with someone doing a hunting practice that is legal. This whole discussion kinda reminds me of another topic that people argue ethics about....the whole spinning wing/mechanical decoy issue. All designed to bring game into shooting range.


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## huntin1

Bretts:

If you are 5 for 6 then you are doing something right. I'd like to get something straight, I'm not questioning your ability to hunt, nor anyone else's. I just don't understand your reasoning. It's ok to rattle plastic antlers or wood dowels in a bag that you bought at Cabelas, It's ok to spray doe or buck pee from a plastic bottle that you also bought at Cabelas, all in the hopes of attracting a deer to your stand. But it's not ok to dump a pile of corn in a shelter belt to achieve that same thing. What if I find an apple tree in an abandon farmyard and suppliment the apples already there with more from my backyard. For that matter, we hunt next to sunflower, corn and bean fields because we know that they are food that attracts deer to that area, if baiting were made illegal would this then be considered baiting. Remember that when duck and goose hunting in a field, if you set your dekes near where the farmer spilled grain during the harvest, you will be arrested for baiting wether you knew it was there or not.

Over the years I've hunted deer from tree stands, ground blinds, stillhunted through shelterbelts, spot and stalk out in the badlands. I've never hunted over bait and don't intend to, I've got enough stuff to do without carrying food out into the woods everyday. But I won't condem you if you choose to, as long as it is legal.

huntin1


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## GooseBuster3

tt


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## huntin1

GB3,

Settle down, Plainsman just pointed out the this situation could be a scientific study as that is they method used to trap deer for these types of studies. By all means report it to the Game & Fish. If it is a study they will know, if not, maybe they can get some poachers. Just don't take matters into your own hands and destroy the site, if it is a scientific study you will be in deep doo doo.  

huntin1


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## Plainsman

GB3

I can see where using your observation as an example of misidentification may have been offensive to you. Sorry about that part of it. It is however a realistic explanation. On the other hand what you say may be perfectly plausible. It is so bad that many of us find it hard to accept even though you are perhaps right. If you could find a way to identify ownership that would be great. Even if the traps look identical to those used in studies, they may be copies to avoid detection, or simply because they work. If you can find out I am sure we all would be interested in that. A bait pile is one thing, a bait pile with a trap is entirely different.

I knew a fellow that did his MS degree on deer south of Medora ,and trapped in the Kinley plateau area back in the 1970's. Although I never seen his traps his description was similar to your description. Except for any wire that would tangle the animal.


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## buckseye

GB3 I wasn't laughing about the deer trap or at you, I was laughing at the discussion on baiting and was just having some fun. We went over baiting pretty good on here before and untill it is illegal there will be people who do use various baits and attractants to help have success on their hunts. Have a good one you ol honker blaster!!


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## cbass

Farmer J

I am sorry to inform you that you know very little about agriculture and very little about big numbers of deer. 30-40 on 800 acres, please, that is a piss in the bucket compared to what i hunt. Last time i checked it was the farmers right to post his land and his right to complain about deer numbers. How he decides to manage it is up to him. If you have a problem with the deer numbers buy some land (800 acres) and shoot the (30) deer that you say are out there, and sleep peacefully at night, it is that simple.


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