# Struggling



## Hookset

HELP. I am going hunting in Colorado in a few weeks. I have a Knight Revolution 50 cal. One day it shoots good another it's all over the place. I can't shoot sabots. I have been using 777 fffg and powerbelts, powerbelt platinums, the new Hornady FTB and Thor Bullets. Nothing has impressed me. Someone told me to using Murphy's Oil Soap instead of water to clean between shots and overall. Also to use Cream of Wheat on top of the powder. I'm baffled. Any suggestions?


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## Plainsman

Well, if your willing to spend some money try Pyrodex Select. Top it off with the 370 gr Thompson Center Maxi Ball, and don't clean at all between shots. Use plain old dish soap and hot water to clean up. After clean up lube the bore with anything of your choice to protect from rust. Even if it's a stainless.


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## Ron Gilmore

First of how many grains of powder are you trying to use. Accuracy many times is better when you back off from max loads. Next is to make sure you are truly seating the bullets to the same depth every time. Make sure and mark your rod. I use a stick on measure tape. Mine happens to be in Metric, but it really does not matter. With the type of bullets you are using small variations can cause a big difference in accuracy.
One last thing on powder, I pre weigh all of my loose powder to make sure I am reproducing everything. Might sound like a pain, but it can take a lot off the size of a group!!!!


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## Hookset

I started with 150 and was shooting pretty good. Then I talked to this guy who was some award winning shooter and he told me to use the Cream of wheat (COW), back of on the powder to maybe 90 grains and use the Murphy soap. He thinks I am getting blowby and the COW will stop that. I don't think I am going to be able to weigh each volume of powder but that is a good idea. I will put a mark on my rod and try that. I might go tomorrow morning and let you know what I figure out. I might just go back to water too. He also says to not run a dry patch after the wet Murphy's one. Any other ideas? Thanks in advance.


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## barebackjack

Dont take offense......

but you said one day it shoots well and the next its all over the place? All else equal (same load, same seating pressure, etc), are you sure its not the shooter?

I would also stop cleaning between every shot. My "fouling shots" (shots fired from clean bore) rarely go where subsequent shots from a dirtier bore go. Ill run a patch with windex, water, or simple green on it every half dozen or so shots, this is mostly to just soften the fouling, im not really "cleaning" it at all.

The thing most guys have problems with in making a muzzleloader accurate is CONSISTENCY. Seating pressure being one of the more important aspects. Like was said, make a mark on your rod and seat to this mark EVERY time. A few extra or less pounds of seating pressure, especially with the bullets your using can mean big differences in bore pressures and velocities, which can mean big differences in group size.


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## Hookset

Thanks for the reply. I take criticism well. Honesty is the best policy and I appreciate that.

Originally I would run a wet (water only) patch down the barrel after every shot. Twice. I would flip over the patch and do the same. I would run a dry patch the same way, then shoot. That worked pretty well. But not super good. This Murphy Soap deal and the Cream of Wheat is the only thing I've changed. Maybe you are right. The barrel is TOO clean from the Murphy's and there is no fouling in there to make things consistent.

Believe me I know that the problem is usually the "Indian not the Arrow" if you know what I mean so I really try to be consistent.

I am gonna head out today in about an hour and try some stuff and let you know. I'll try the seating pressure thing too. Thanks. Any other thoughts?


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## Sabotloader

Hookset

Reading through your posts I am wishing. I guess, I knew a little more about what and how you shooting.

I read T7-3f for powder then several different projectiles, but I do not recall if you mentioned which rifle?

Then in another post you mentioned 150 grains of powder! I was hoping that it was pellets... but if you are shooting 3f it is certainly not pellets... Very few guns made are rated to handle 150 grains of lose T7-3f powder. That one factor there might be the biggest reason for your disappointments. Very few conicals are going to do well with that much powder especially T7-3f.

Projectiles - i am not a powerbelt fan so keep that in mind, but in Colorado, I can understand why you might go that way. But just so you know if you shoot powerbelts you really should reduce the charge to around 100 grains or the bullet might blow up on contact...

The FPB might be the better of the projectiles you mentioned but again the pwoder charge is probaly the biggest reason that you might be having trouble with them. Again if I could suggest drop back to 100 grain and give that a go.

The next problem I would now check is the bore... shooting those projectiles and that load your bore may be very welled fouled by now with copper. You probably will need to clean the barrel with a good copper solvent like Barnes CR-10 or a equivelent.

Your plan to swab between shots when shooting T7 is a very good idea, I use simple old regular blue windex when at the range a spit patch while hunting.

Here is how I make my Windex patches....










This girl was shot with 110 grains T7-2f @ 170+ yards... 110 worked just fine..










If you get a chance - clean the barrel and try some lower volume loads starting at 100 grains, which is still a hot load for T7-3f and a heavy conical.


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## Hookset

I wasn't able to shoot today. I will try tomorrow. Thanks for everyone's help so far.

Sagotloader. I am shooting a Knight Revolution 50 Caliber

I am going to go back to some basics starting tomorrow and be sxtremely consistant and see what happens. Appreciate all the advice and looking forward to more.


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## Hookset

Nobody has said anything about the Cream of Wheat. What do you think about that? The guy I met says it won some sort of National Shooting contest.


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## Plainsman

Anything to get a good seal. I think powerbelts are poor at that. I don't know if they are any better now, but I tried them when they fist come out. I bumped my barrel and the bullet moved forward in the barrel. I finished those two boxes and they were the last.

I often use something between the powder and bullet, especially when I shoot round balls that have a greased patch. I use wasp nest. Sometimes the wasps don't cooperate, but so far I have won all the arguments with them. Winter time is the best time to get a wasp nest. Just drop a pinch on top of the powder and run the ball down on top of it.

That's why I recommended the Thompson Center Maxi Ball. They stay put in the barrel and when you fire the rifle they obturate and seal the bore well too.


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## Sabotloader

Hookset

One of my fellow shooter 'Lee' has used 'creame of wheat' many times as a buffer... I choose not to because I can not feature myself loading poder then loading COW then loading the projectile... - I might be in a hurry...


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## Hookset

Plainsman: How far out can the Maxi ball shoot accurately? I think my vision might be a little distorted.

I have an aquaintance who I trust and he told me he shoots the powerbelts out to 300 yds with enough accuracy that he is confident to shoot at deer. He claims he shot a deer at 269 yards with a 45 cal Knight with 150 grains of triple 7 and a 295 grain Powerbelt. What do ya'll think about that?

Sabotloader: I agree about the COW. I will try anything at this point though.


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## Sabotloader

Hookset



> I will try anything at this point though.


If that is the truth... what bullets (conicals) do you have on hand?

I still think you should clean the barrel with a good copper/lead solvent... Let that stuff stand in the bore for an hour or so....

Then if you are shooting a bullet weighing more than 300 grains then load up 90 grains of T7-3f and shoot a 25 yard target. If that come out well as I expect it will then jump to 110 and shoot another 25 yard target. Semisain's rule - 5 shots per group.

Before shooting the first round shoot 3 primers through the BP then patch it with a windex patch. Run a dry patch and load up and commence shooting. Run a moist windex patch after each shot... if you do not get the patch to wet you do not have to run a dry patch... and you can use the same dirty patch several times until it drys out.

If you get a good group @ 25 move to 75... If it does not do it for you @ 75 stop and lets re-group.

That Revolution will shoot I am convinced of that.... Are you using a scope? and if you are please check all screws to make sure they are snug. What scope if you are using a scope by the way? If you are using open sights make sure they are tight....

This is starting @ square one...


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## Hookset

The only bullets I have are

30 - Hornady FTB 350 grain.
5 - THOR 247 grain .502 Diameter
30 - Powerbelt 245 grain Aero Tip. 
8 - Powerbelt 295 Grain Aero tip
30 - Powerbelt Platinum 338 Grain.

I have a Leupold VarXIII 3 x 10 50MM objective mounted on quick release Leupold mounts. I am only using the scope for now to make sure again the it is "The Indian not the Arrow" who is making mistakes.

I will tighten all screws before I shoot.

I'm gonna go shoot right now. I'll post back in a couple hours.


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## Sabotloader

*Hookset*



> 30 - Hornady FTB 350 grain.
> 5 - THOR 247 grain .502 Diameter
> 30 - Powerbelt 245 grain Aero Tip.
> 8 - Powerbelt 295 Grain Aero tip
> 30 - Powerbelt Platinum 338 Grain.
> 
> I have a Leupold VarXIII 3 x 10 50MM objective mounted on quick release Leupold mounts. I am only using the scope for now to make sure again the it is "The Indian not the Arrow" who is making mistakes.
> 
> I will tighten all screws before I shoot.


Since you have 30 of them - probably to late to suggest this as you are probably already shooting, but I would just shoot the 245's for this experiment and see how they do. I would still stay with the 90/100 grains of powder... PowerBelts do not like to be driven to hard as they tend to blow up on target if driven very hard.

If you end shooting PB's there is a guy on another forum that can help you a lot with suggested loads + he is a Colorado hunter.

I have to run up to the University this morning to complete some work but will check back late morning Pacific time..


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## Hookset

Just got back. Here is what happened.

I cleaned the gun and barrel thouroghly with Murphy's Oil soap and water. Ran a wire brush down the barrel too. It really cleans up well. Tried Shooter's Choice Solvent first on the trigger mechanism and it wouldn't clean the crud better than the Murphy's. Cleaned the BP too.

Put 50 grains of 777 in the barrel NO BULLET. Installed a primer and POW!

After that shot. I put WATER ONLY on a swab and ran it down the barrel ONE TIME. Then one dry swab ONE TIME.

I found I had 5 Powebelt Platinum 270 grain bullets so I dropped 100 grains of 777 down the barrel and then down went the bullet. No COW. I marked my rod as to where the bullet stopped, set a target at 50 yards and POW!

Well, at least the bullet hit the target. OK, so I swabbed the barrel ONE TIME wet with water and ONE TIME dry. Loaded the same exact load and shot. Next shot was two inches higher than the first. Swabbed the same and loaded and shot again. THIS TIME THE BULLET second and third HOLES WERE TOUCHING!!!! So, I moved the target to 100yds and did the same stuff and shot the last two bullets and both holes were TOUCHING AGAIN!!!!! WOOO HOOOO!!! I AM PUMPED!!!!

Since I didn't have any more of those bullets, I shot the THOR bullets a few times with good results but not as good as the Powerbelt Platinums. I am going to get some more of those bullets today and try it again tomorrow.

It seems that it takes at least one maybe two foul shots to get the gun to should at it's best.

Thanks for everyone's help. I'll keep you posted after shooting more.


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## Sabotloader

Hookset

Sounds good maybe it is coming around...


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## Hookset

Just got back from Bass Pro buying more bullets. Shootin tomorrow mornin. Keep you posted.
Thanks again.


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## wburns

Powerbelts are meant to be shot out of a dirty barrel. One guy mentioned they don't seal tight, that is the reason they should not be shot with a clean barrel. I have had very good results out of my 54 cal Hawkens. I only swab the barrel after about 10 shots. Sounds like you are working it out. Good luck on your upcomming hunt.


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## alleyyooper

I keep reading in your post swabing between shots with water. If that is really what your doing stop it. *Damp* is all you need just a damp swab then a couple of dry ones.
I use the premoistened alcohol pads that come with my test strips but you can buy them at the medical section at drug stores and box stores like wally world. Sabotloader probably shoots more in a month than many do in a year and has a world of knowlege.
 Only problem with Mike is he keeps failing retirement and finds work to do instead of fun things to do.
Truth be knowen though he has to support his ML and shooting habits.

 Al


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## Hookset

Thanks Alleyyooper. I will try that too. When I say water, I mean I just spray some water lightly on the swab so I think it is really only damp not wet. I might try alcohol too. Thanks again.


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