# Alcan metal 12 gauge shotshells



## Wiley243

I recently bought a handloaders entire collection of presses and components, and he showed me some old metal shotshells that he had inherited.

They are made by a company named "Alcan". I'm guessing they are from the 50's, but I'd never even heard of them before last week.

At this point, I don't even know if they are aluminum, or some other metal.

Any information would be helpful.

Thanks in advance,
Wiley243


----------



## darkgael

Wow. I knew that Alcan made shotshell components. I have an old Lyman manual that references them. I did not know that they made what you have. 
They look like aluminum. Have you tried to polish one so as to remove the oxidation? 
I wonder how well they worked and what reloading them was like. 
Do you know yet whether they are "true to gauge" - use 12ga. wads - or whether they require 11 ga. components like many brass hulls do?
Pete


----------



## Wiley243

darkgael - thanks for your reply!

I haven't tried to polish one yet. I tried to stick a magnet to one last night, but it wouldn't stick, so I assume that they are aluminum. I will try to polish one.

I'll see if a AA 12 gauge wad fits in one. or maybe just grab my precision calipers and get a measurement on them.

I'll post my findings.

Thanks again!


----------



## Presidio

I also have these and have them loaded with blackpowder and a Winchester 209 primer. I use a standard 7/8 oz Winchester gray shotcup and overshot card then roll crimp into place. The nearet I can figure is that they are made of Zinc. I've found running them through a vibrator cleaner to polish 'em up really helps.

But, I'm trying to find a source to obtain some more of these and have come up empty. Any help would be appreciated!


----------



## magoo2000usa

I have some Alcan-Metal new old stock with copy of brochures unprimed 12 ga for sale if interested...


----------



## Presidio

I got a keen interest in buying them. How many ya' got and for how much?

Give me a call on my cell 832-576-3737


----------



## Presidio

Appears ya' ain't got much interest in sellin' after all, seein' as I ain't heard from ya'

If'n you have a change of mind - there be muh number.


----------



## magoo2000usa

Sorry, was out of town I know I have at least 2 hundred... $50 per+shipping.


----------



## Presidio

PM me your mailing info and how you'd like your payment made.


----------



## darkgael

Presidio/Magoo: If there is room in that deal for one of you to part with 20-25 of those, PM me with the details. I'd wouldn't need more than that.
If possible.
Thanks.
Pete


----------



## Presidio

Be glad to work something out with ya' as soon as I hear from Magoo! :beer:


----------



## darkgael

Thanks. 
Pete


----------



## magoo2000usa

PM'd ya Presidio... maybe you didn't get it,


----------



## Presidio

Thanks, Magoo.

Nope, it didn't come across - sent ya' an email addy.


----------



## magoo2000usa

Darkgael, got an extra 25 for you if you still want them....
Magoo


----------



## darkgael

Magoo: Thanks. PM sent.
Pete

Presidio: In an earlier post you mentioned that you roll crimped these cases. I have had limited success roll crimping metal (brass) hulls, though I know that the factories did it.
How do you go about it? What tools do you use? How well does the crimp open upon firing? How about the durability of the crimped section? Lots of questions, I know, but if you have a moment....
Thanks, 
Pete


----------



## magoo2000usa

Darkgael, sent you a PM but doesn't look like its going thru??? Send me an Email if you didn't recieve one....
Magoo


----------



## magoo2000usa

magoo2000usa said:


> Darkgael, sent you a PM but doesn't look like its going thru??? Send me an Email if you didn't recieve one....
> Magoo


I don't know whats up with is PM deal.. it does not work!


----------



## Presidio

darkgael said:


> Magoo: Thanks. PM sent.
> Pete
> 
> Presidio: In an earlier post you mentioned that you roll crimped these cases. I have had limited success roll crimping metal (brass) hulls, though I know that the factories did it.
> How do you go about it? What tools do you use? How well does the crimp open upon firing? How about the durability of the crimped section? Lots of questions, I know, but if you have a moment....
> Thanks,
> Pete


Magoo, I use an old antique roll crimper like below. This is the same type that is used on plastic and paper hulls.









The Alcan metal is thinner and more pliable than say MagTech Brass is - so it works pretty well. Course - bits and very small pieces will weaken and eventually come lose with the shot, but there's plenty left for a substantial and satisfactory crimp to hold the overshot card and shot in place. BTW - with the Alcans it's a true size 12ga overshot card and wads.

I also use it on my MagTechs, but just to start a slight "roll crimp" that rounds the edges and helps hold a "glued" overshot card (_with Duco glue_) in place and to ease in loading into the chambers of a Side x Side Shotgun.

I also use a Lee LoadAll to do all my loading with except the crimp stations. Yes, you can deprime and prime just like you can with a plastic hull. I use Pyrodex FFFg and 7/8oz of #8 shot with a gray Winchester shotcup. I use an overshot card, but found I didn't have to use an overpowder card because of the shotcup. If I decide to use regular Circle Fly wads and not the plastic shotcups, then I'll be using the overpowder nitro cards then. :wink:

To clean up the melted plastic - I just position the barrels downward and open chambered and spray in some NON-vingered Windex - let it soak for a minute - then run a bore-snake through it. Oil it up and put it away clean and shiny! :wink:


----------



## magoo2000usa

The other guy wanted to know... I've bee emailing and PM'g you guys like crazzy! I think the pm's are not getting thru...check your emails.
Magoo


----------



## Presidio

Yep - been doing that. I also don't think the PM's are working. Going to contact the Forum Admin about it later. :wink:


----------



## Presidio

BTW - you can still find these antique roll crimpers on EBay time to time. This one I bought off of a pard from the SASS Wire Forum for $25.00 plus shipping.


----------



## darkgael

Presidio: Thanks for that info about crimping and the true to gauge nature of the Alcans. I have a couple of those old crimpers that I use for paper hulls. I like the modern drill press crimper from BPI - way less work.
Duco cement seems like the way to go. I used to use Waterglass; it was OK if I was going to use the shells within a short time but it does not store well.
Pete


----------



## Presidio

For what it's worth, I PM'd the moderator here and they received and sent PM's back to me with no problem.

I'd suggest that everyone have a look in their "Profile" and make sure they have the PM function checked.

Darkgael, I've been wanting to try out the waterglass - I'm just to lazy to do the mixing and application. Figure I've already done 100 brass + 2 reloads on a single tube - so it suits me fine and it's readily available at Wal-Mart.


----------



## darkgael

Presidio: You can buy waterglass in liquid form - liquid Sodium Silicate. Much easier than mixing from dry. It can be had from the local pharmacy. Mine had to order it, but that took only a day. A quart will last you a very long time. You just can't store the shells for months. At least, that was my experience.
Pete


----------



## Presidio

Well, that'll be the problem. I make up a couple hundred to hold out for months at a time. So, Duco is the best option for me.

Thanks anyway for the heads up of getting it at a pharmacy.


----------



## Presidio

Magoo!

I need you to email your address to me again!

Thanks :beer:


----------



## darkgael

They are clean, nice looking hulls. 









Thanks,
Pete


----------



## magoo2000usa

Your welcome Pete... and Presidio PM sent. :beer:


----------



## Presidio

Funds in the mail. You should expect to see them around Monday or Tuesday.

Or give or take your weather conditions on mail delivery . . . . . . .


----------



## Presidio

Hey Wiley!

How'd things turn out on your's. Did ya' get e'm polished up? Have ya' loaded up, and shot 'em yet? If'n so, what'd ya' use and what were your results?

Inquirin' minds wanna know!  :wink:


----------



## darkgael

I haven't taken the time to load any of these hulls yet but I have measured them. The caliper tells me that they are 0.762" ID across the mouth. That means that they will take 11 gauge components. In fact, 11 gauge wads fit perfectly. The twelve gauge plastic wads are a very loose fit in the hulls that I have. 
Pete


----------



## Presidio

Yep - they are a mite lose at that. Hence the reason for me using an overpowder card. I use it to compress the FFFg BP tight. The shotcup is just easier to keep the shot in a tight group without shooting a donut hole in the pattern.

When I get this new batch, I plan on using cards and fiber wads, but use the shot cups with the "cushions" cut off them. Let ya' know how that works out :wink: .


----------



## darkgael

Presidio: I was just thinking about going that route and cutting off the shot cups from some Win. wads. 
Ques.: In that 7/8 oz. load, what is the fffg charge? I usually use ffg but have started to go to fffg. I use the 3f (60 grains) in a .54 smoothbore with 3/4 oz. I'd like to give it a try in these cases. 
Pete


----------



## Presidio

Out of my Lee LoadAll, I use the largest powder bushing - which comes out close to 34.5 gr. I use these for Cowboy Shooting so it makes plenty fire and smoke for knockdowns at 10 yards. :wink:

Also, it makes next to nothing for recoil. I can take down "popper" clay birds with these loads, but those are normally straight up at 10 - 15 feet up and 8 yards out. Works okay for this :roll: .

Haven't tried anything other load - as of yet - but I may do some experimenting later on. :eyeroll:


----------



## magoo2000usa

You Alcan guys: Yall happy ? :beer:


----------



## Presidio

_*Yep !*_


----------



## darkgael

Magoo: Yep. They work nicely for me. Got any more?

Pete


----------



## magoo2000usa

Sorry those were the last ones...


----------



## Zephyrmec

Back in the 60s, My Dad and I shot on a couple different trap leagues. There were some guys that got a "great deal" on Alcan paper loads, figuring to use the cases a few times (they supposedly were identical to Federal paper cases that we used) The ready-rolled ALCAN shells were filthy, and their quality control nonexistant, I remember seeing (and hearing) a weak "poop" and having the guy at the next station have an oz of # 7 1/2 roll out the tube as the bird touched down gently in the grass. after a couple weeks of something like 1-2% failures, either primer only, ftf, or "double charge" and the nasty filthy powder they used, they were never seen on our trapline again. (I'd guess that would have been around 66-67) We had loading parties about once a month, and went through more Red Dot in Federal paper than I thought was possible.

I saw this thread, and had to post, I thought that I'd heard the last of the Alcan name. Those Zinc cases sound like the ticket for BP shooters!


----------

