# Baby boomers or bums?



## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Looking to the '60s generation for lessons on how to plan

By Helyn Trickey

this mammoth generation -- at once lauded for its commitment to social change and derided for its perceived self-indulgence -- has grown up and is now going gray.

So, how did the "Me" generation do for itself? Have the boomers prospered as much as they could have, or did they miss key opportunities to better their nation and their lives?

It depends on whom you ask.

Some experts say the boomers did not plan well for their future, especially their financial futures, relying instead on the whimsy of a historically rosy economic era to carry them along.

Others contend the boomers may have had sound, long-term plans, but were sandbagged by economic and political shifts so dynamic that the boomer generation became preoccupied with adapting to their new world and rewriting the social contracts that bind our nation together, instead of fulfilling long-term financial and personal goals.

"I think they've been baby bummers," says Suze Orman, a personal finance expert and host of her own financial advice television and radio show.

"We are a fascinating generation," she says, admitting that she's a boomer herself. "We're really independent and free-thinking," but from a financial perspective, "we did not save money, and we loved to spend money. Many of (the boomers) were saved by the real estate markets, and their wealth was created for them; they did not create it themselves."

Another expert takes a gentler view.

"Various rugs have been pulled out from under this generation," says Leonard Steinhorn, an associate professor at American University and author of the book, "The Greater Generation: In Defense of the Baby Boom Legacy."

Steinhorn points out that the deindustrialization of the economy, the loss of job security and an erosion of trust in authority figures challenged this generation as no preceding generation had been.

*
America swells with baby fever*
"You have to put it in context," he says. "Boomers have had to adapt to a changing landscape throughout their entire lives. They've had to adapt to new technology and learn how to base an economy on it."

Born between 1946 and 1964, 78 million babies flourished in the optimism of post-World War II America.

The boomers were more educated than any previous generation in American history; and thanks, in part, to advances in medical care, they are projected to live longer than any generation before them.

This generation grew up reading Mad magazine and thumbing through Joseph Heller's ironic tome, "Catch-22."

The boomers so influenced American culture that in 1966, Time magazine broke with tradition and selected the baby boomer generation instead of an individual in its Man of the Year place of honor.

"It was the dawn of the baby boom era, when the Greatest Generation felt secure in its authority, but Time understood how boomers were about to shake up the sediments of American life," Steinhorn writes.

Indeed, the boomers would go on to challenge almost every facet of their parents' lives.

Steinhorn points out how this generation embraced multiculturalism and diversity like never before, making discrimination in the workplace against women and minorities illegal. Boomers listened to the disparate voices of Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, Lenny Bruce and Bob Dylan. And environmental causes gained steam under the boomers' stewardship; suddenly, being "green" was hip.

But the seismic social and economic shifts took a toll on a generation intent on forging their own path.

The boomer divorce rate is triple that of their parents' generation, according to Ken Gronbach, author of "Common Census: The Counter-Intuitive Guide to Generational Marketing."

"They got married, they got divorced and half their money goes out the window," says Orman, who hears from many divorced boomers on her shows. She worries that starting over financially in mid-life may be too difficult for some.

Orman also chides the boomer generation for allowing precious health care and retirement benefits to erode on their watch.

"It's a serious bummer of a situation," she says. "We have a generation that has to pay for health insurance and retirement themselves. One day Toto is going to come in and pull back the curtain and we'll see just how bad it is."

Steinhorn isn't sure blame for a failing health care system and upended retirement benefits can be levied against one generation.

"The economy changed under their feet. I don't think we've figured out how to deal with the changing economy as of yet," he says.

"Is not dealing with health care reform a boomer failing?" Steinhorn asks. "Were the founders a failed generation because they didn't deal with slavery? Is the World War II generation a failed generation because they took a pass on social issues? You have to put it in context," he says.

Orman worries that boomers approaching retirement age may be getting concerned about their financial health too late to fix the problem.

"We keep thinking that time is on our side. We don't look our age and we don't feel our age," she says. "Boomers don't think they'll get ill. But now they are approaching 60, and I'm beginning to hear them get a little worried."

Like many of her baby boomer peers, Dahlman says she worries about retirement.

"I planned a little bit, but I went off on a lark -- a couple of marriages that didn't work," she says.

Dahlman says she is considering a communal living arrangement when she goes to retire, a cheaper option that will still keep her engaged in life and less isolated.

"As a single person, why do I need to have my own home and shoulder that responsibility?" she says.

Always innovative, the baby boomer generation promises to upend ideas of conventional retirement just as, in their youth, they re-tooled American society.

"There will be no quiet retirements," Dahlman says, "Our party is just beginning."


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Baby boomer retirement will be interesting, but just wait for gen x the real disaster is on the way!!!


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

BUMS. They have no plan for the future, and expect big daddy government to take care of them. The worst part of it is, that they KNOW and they dont care.

Dont worry Bore, Gen X'ers wont retire, because there wont be anything for them to retire onto. SS will be bone dry in ten years (thanks to the baby boomers) and, like htere parents, they have no mindset to plan for the future either.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Yeah the darn goofballs spent all their money and life trying to raise you kids. They had to make sure the kids had all the latest fashions and toys. I think we wasted a lot of time and money on kids that don't have a clue what work is or where food comes from.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

:withstupid: What goes around comes around. The gen X-boxers claim to fame seems to be blaming everyone but themselves for all of their problems (real or imagined). Taking responsability for your own destiny hasn't come out on a game for PSII yet, so they don't get it. Man up and take a look at those of your peers who are defending your way of life on foreign shores. Those are your future leaders, not the guy who invented the LCD screen in your telephone. Burl


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Just for the record, Im an X'r.....

And to an extent, I'll agree that most X'rs are just as you state. I've got a 32 yr old plumber thats working for me still has his head in the clouds and his bed at mom and dads place.....However, others like myself, that are the very tail end of the X generation saw the light, and are more in tune with society than some would believe.

Afterall, Im 27, I own my own house, Im married, two kids, few cars (only 1 payment) and NO credit cards! Never wanted one either.... I'm part owner of my family buisness, and I make my money through the combined use of my head AND my hands. I do all my own repairs and maintenance, and if I dont know how to do something that needs doin, I look forward to learning something new.

If I wasnt such a crappy hunter, I'd consider life perfect


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

burly1: I think you have your generations mixed up.

Generation Xer's were born between 1968 and 1977. We didn't have Xbox or Playstation. Atari yes.

Generations Y's (also called millenials) were between 1978 and 2001, but some are saying 1999 and that a new generation has emerged starting in 2000-2001 until present.

I am a Generation Xer. 32 years old. Married with a kid on the way. On my 3rd home and if everything goes right will be safe and secure to retire at age 55. In a professional role finishing a Master's degree and moving onto my Ph. D.

AARP will be the most powerful organization in the next 5 years. What they decide will either be our fate or our future.......


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

buckseye said:


> Yeah the darn goofballs spent all their money and life trying to raise you kids. They had to make sure the kids had all the latest fashions and toys. I think we wasted a lot of time and money on kids that don't have a clue what work is or where food comes from.


Right on Bucks.....I have only been paying into SS for the past 43 years.....shame on me for expecting to get some of that back in my old age. :******:


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

I am also a gen x er. Social security HA who needs it I will take care of old age with booze and tobacco!!


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

My apolgies for using the shotgun effect in regards to gen-xers. Those of you who know your way around life are certainly above the curve. And no, I don't think I got my gens mixed up. I work, on a daily basis with many between the age of 25-35, and with a few exceptions, they don't have a clue. Their only concession to living a real life is having a job. By and large, not many know how to work, or care to learn. Our current systems of employment make it nearly impossible to terminate these hangers on, unless they kill someone, or just don't show up. The worst part, in my view, is their effect on those of us who try to hold the world together. That "so what" attitude starts to rub off when you see that those around you care for nothing but their paycheck and put forth only enough effort to get by. It's discouraging, but I really am a glass half full kind of guy and have faith that there are enough caring young people who were raised with a decent work ethic, to see the world through a few more generations. Burl


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

live2hunt said:


> burly1: I think you have your generations mixed up.
> 
> Generation Xer's were born between 1968 and 1977. We didn't have Xbox or Playstation. Atari yes.
> 
> ...


As am I a Gen X'r.... Gen X'ers actually have their lives together for the most part... it is Gen Y and Gen "Me" as they are all now being called where we have to worry... The Gen X'rs are the problem parents of today. They are giving their children everything and not providing a responsible role model for their children.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

how can you get so many generations, pretty prolific people around the country I guess. We have four generations going on in my family, great grama, grama, ma, and kids but that spans 80 years.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

good question buckseye, I wondered that also.

The real problem is the people that believe they will recieve SS benefits are the same ones that believe the money is in a fund somewhere :eyeroll:

It ISN'T.

Congress has been pissing it away since the fifties and literally throwing IOU's in the Drawer. Now every so called generation :roll: is going to pay the piper.

Of course congress like most government employees have a seperate retirement fund that isn't managed like that for themselves.

How convienent :eyeroll:

And of course just like taxes we can never consider changing anything 
lets all just keep our heads in the sand.

The generations will have a war over this politically, and it will start in about 10 years.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Ben Elli: One of the characteristics of Gen Xer's is they didn't grow up with any hero's. They were the latchkey kids because their boomer parents felt like sacrafice was both of them working instead of having one home with them. The drawback.....parents who will do anything for their children because they don't want what was done to them. It is a drawback because you are right, they are giving everything to their kids.

However, there are a group of us Xer's who were raised by the older boomers who were taught to work hard and to earn respect and not expect it.

Here is a little tidbit from a presentor I saw back in Salt Lake City about 3 years ago. He did a research study on Generations. One of his questions was "What does the word sacrafice mean to you?"

Mature Generation: Having to eat only bread and milk/water for a week.

Baby Boomers: Staying late for work or coming in on a Saturday for work.

Generation Xer's: Not being able to see my family

Generation Y/Millenials: Not seeing my friends for the weekend or #2 not being able to play my Xbox for the weekend.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

live2hunt said:


> Ben Elli: One of the characteristics of Gen Xer's is they didn't grow up with any hero's. They were the latchkey kids because their boomer parents felt like sacrafice was both of them working instead of having one home with them. The drawback.....parents who will do anything for their children because they don't want what was done to them. It is a drawback because you are right, they are giving everything to their kids.
> 
> However, there are a group of us Xer's who were raised by the older boomers who were taught to work hard and to earn respect and not expect it.
> 
> ...


Hey L2H I like this post alot... I can really relate to it. I too was raised by late boomers who taught me a work ethic. Unfortunately, this group is very small as a representative whole of the nation.

Gen X'rs should be FURIOUS at the government for creating the social security mess... As BobM's post above is spot on accurate.... the government has been dipping their greedy little fingers into the SS cookie jar. That bailout is going to be extremely painful for you and. I in a decade. I absolutely REFUSE to allow them to raise the retirement age any higher than what it currently is. If that comes to pass there will be some form of civil unrest in the country. Just because we live longer (supposedly) than former generations, doesn't mean we want to retire later also!

The other point I've always refuted, is when I hear of Boomers saying they should get full retirement benefits from the system, becaue they've been paying their $$ in... they in fact are taking out MUCH more than they ever put in the system given $$$ put in vs inflation/interest on their contributions. That generation will see more benefits than any other. The math is really straightforward on this. If you had a max cap on your benefits to include only the $$ you put in and the interest gained on it would you still be so gung ho about how fair the system is? Many people's benefits would expire within 6-8 years of being in the system.

Why is it that most informed Gen X'rs want a partially privateized social security system whereby they can remove a percentage of their own contributions into a dedicated personal savings program? It is because at least we can COUNT on that money being there when we retire. I'm personally tired of contributing to something that I will only get partial benefits from (after age 70) by the time I'm eligible to retire. If I could have invested all that money on my own I'd be WAY ahead by now! Heck I'd even settle for 10% of my former and current contributions to get me started. I could add that into my current 401K, IRA's, Mutual Funds and Real Estate portfolio to understand what my retirement truly will be come that day...

Why is it that most Boomers who happen to make up the bulk of the voting popluation DON'T want that type of system. It is because they are wise that younger generations are footing their bill and will be for some time. The sad fact our country will soon learn, is that unless you live in a very cheap area of the country, the majority of retirees will only be partially retired for an extra 10-15 years. Their meager savings and SS will only partially cover their expenses. It is entirely possible that generational battles will dominate our domestic political scene in the next 10 years. That and the upcoming battle over dangerous roads due to a large influx of diminished capacity drivers on high volume high speed interstate highways.

Ryan

.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Bobm said:


> good question buckseye, I wondered that also.
> 
> The real problem is the people that believe they will recieve SS benefits are the same ones that believe the money is in a fund somewhere :eyeroll:
> 
> ...


Spot on accurate post Bob! :beer:


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

unfortunately, there are only three feesable ways to fix the problem:

1) Raise the retirement age

2) Start denying benefits left and right

3) Substantialy increase taxes (or, change management methods, such as creating private accounts)

Of course, any combination of the three may be employed.

None of the options are prety, but something needs to be done. After a few MONTHS of research, I have come to one conclusion: I am glad that I am not making the final desision.

No matter what option, of combination of options you choose, you are going to be stepping on peoples toes. This is probably the chief reason why none of our lovely politicians have doen anything about the problem, instead electing to ignore the problem for the last *THIRTY YEARS.*

uke:


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

I am in my early 30's and I am not counting on any thing from ss. If your looking for somebody to blame for the problem blame the idiots that are in Washington DC. Blame the idiot that is in there now and the idiot that sat in the chair before him and so on. They have been robbing the trust fund for years and never made an honest attempt to fix it or had a resonable thought that would do it. The trust fund idea that Bush had was such a bad idea that he couldn't even get it threw with a republican congress.

The ones that I worry about are my parents. They are the ones who counted on ss. They are just now getting to retire. There in good health and if ss crashes it will hurt them alot. With there health they could live another 20-30 years. Do you really think ss is still going to be solid in 30 years? I'm not sure it will be. At least I will have had 30 years to prepare for it. While ss isn't taked about as much as it should be it is the biggest mess in the federal goverment that there is.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

ND Decoy Wrote:

While ss isn't taked about as much as it should be it is the biggest mess in the federal goverment that there is.3

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Thank You FDR ... The worst President in American History for condemning future Citizens to a Compulsory and Unconstitutional Ponzy Scheme. He had to threaten the Supreme Court in order to get this stuff to fly. He was NOT a great American.

If any of us got together today and set up a private organization and ran it just like the SS system is operating ... we would be unceremoniously tossed in Jail for fraud.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Anybody that counts on Goverment for anything is a fool, anybody that counts on anybody but themselfs is also a fool. Reality is this, you are alone in this life, in a savage world ware its feeding time 24 7 365 days a year. My father sat me down once when I was about 9 years old and he told me something that seems more real everyday. He said here take this money and put it in your pocket or under your mattress, remember he said, if its not in your pocket or under your mattress "ITS NOT YOURS"!!! Remember that this tax season when your goverment mugs you. :eyeroll:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> unfortunately, there are only three feesable ways to fix the problem:
> 
> 1) Raise the retirement age
> 
> ...


take it away from the control of the crooks in congress!! Privatize it.
and means test it Rush Limbaugh, Bill gates ect don't need it even though they paid into it and definitely deserve it because of that.

Congress ( the Dems for the last 45 years) has played fast and footloose with it and squandered it on vote buying programs. If a private fund was managed like this the manager would go to prison.

The return on investment for ss is historically about 1.5 to 2 percent and if you die the day you retire they give your family $250.00 and keep the rest.

If a private entity offered you that deal you wouldn't take it yet their are many people on this forum and in this country that will argue against privatization :roll:

once again demonstrating their abysmal economic ignorance,

Bush for all his faults tried to take this on and was shot down due to partisan politics and even the crooks in his own side of the aisle do not want to give up the power that comes with the way they can use the so called SS fund.

We are an economically stupid country :eyeroll:


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