# Short Magnums



## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

What's the deal??? Anyone got any??? Seems like there was a big hoopla and now you don't here much at all.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

7 wsm will be the next gun i have built. It is drawing a big crowd with the lr tactical game and lr hunting.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

I think plainsman still has a 300 WSM, though he probably can't find it in his safe. :lol:

I've never had one.

huntin1


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I have a 270 wsm. That is a quite impressive and diverse caliber. I have a 90gr round that will outrun most .223 rounds, 3600 fps.

Then you can go to the bigger 180gr rounds to take down big game. Wonder how long before someone makes an AR in a wsm or wssm, if it hasn't been done already.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have a 300 WSM in a Browning stainless stalker. It's nice, but not the best thing since sliced bread. The best thing about it is the factory loads it to max pressure, and it's easy to load down to 308 velocities if you want a nice walking, close range, big game plinker. With factory loads the 300 WSM and the 300 Win Mag are equals, but if you reload the 300 Win Mag will take the WSM by 200 fps. 
One thing about short fat cases is uniform ignition. Also, overall the short actions are not only lighter they are stiffer and slightly more accurate. 
I was waiting for a 6.5 WSM and it never come so a couple of weeks ago I bought a Cooper Phoenix in 6.5 X 284.\

Got to go, Bible study in 20 minutes.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

TK33 said:


> I have a 270 wsm. That is a quite impressive and diverse caliber. I have a 90gr round that will outrun most .223 rounds, 3600 fps.
> 
> Then you can go to the bigger 180gr rounds to take down big game. Wonder how long before someone makes an AR in a wsm or wssm, if it hasn't been done already.


You can get ar in .243 wssm for sure dont know about any others


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yup, the 300 WSM is available also.


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

KurtR said:


> TK33 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a 270 wsm. That is a quite impressive and diverse caliber. I have a 90gr round that will outrun most .223 rounds, 3600 fps.
> ...


Kurt is right. You can get an AR15 chambered in 223 wssm, 243wssm, 25wssm, and 300ossm. Accuracy systems also makes AR10 receivers chambered in the WSM calibers as well.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

The reason I started this thread was to learn about them.............

So my next ?????? is "What's the difference between WSM and WSSM and what do they stand for?"

Don't mean to be dumb but when they came out I just was not interested. Plus my wife is not as understanding as Plainsman's


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

WSM = Winchester Short Mag
WSSM = Win Super Short Mag

Are they better ballistically - yes, marginally. Will the deer ever know the difference? No.

Put it this way, in 5 years, you will have a LOT of trouble finding ammo for all the fad calibers.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> in 5 years, you will have a LOT of trouble finding ammo for all the fad calibers.


I think that is very true. I choose the 300WSM because I thought it had the best chance of surviving. It has about 100 fps over the Remington Short Action Ultramag. If anything is going to die that's one of them. Also, the 223 WSSM doesn't look appealing to me. 
The upside I think to my 300WSM is it's light for the mountains or walking anywhere for that matter. It gives me magnum performance in a light short package. It gives me deer accuracy with factory ammo, and very good (but picky) with handloads. Excellent accuracy if you back off on the velocity so it falls between the 30-06 and 300 mag.

If I had one big game rifle would the 300WSM be it? Not a chance. There are to many very good calibers already with easily available ammunition. I find it hard to think in one gun mentality but if I had to stick with one for my hunting I would be hard pressed between a 308, 270, and standard 300 Win Mag. Now if I had to pick between the guns I own it would be the 300 Win Mag.


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Had a 270WSM-sold it.
Have a 300WSM custom(McWhorter) but if feel the 300 urge for some reason,I use my wifes 300 Gentry win mag.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

with the amount of rifles sold in the wsm cals there will be no problem finding brass 20 years much less 5 down the road . The wssm now that is another story all in its self.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I gotta keep up on this. For some reason lately I want an AR, no real reason why I guess. I am still procrastinating on getting a Sig P220. The main reason there is that the wife wants one too. I am thinking about the Remington, that is for another thread though.

Why do you guys feel that there will be a shortage of wssm or wsm brass around? I reload so I could care less on factory ammo, but as I said above I have had too much going on to keep up on all the stuff. All I know is I have about 2000 mag primers and 2000 reg primers and 7000 shotgun primers due to the last run on ammo.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

It's odd how this works sometimes. The Remington 6mm is a good cartridge, but Winchester came out with the 243 first and the 6mm has always remained a slow seller. The mistake Remington made was a slow rifling twist. It stabilized light bullets, but not the heavy bullets the 243 would stabilize. The 243 took off and the Remington never really got out of the gate. Remington has many good cartridges to it's name, but when it comes to the short magnums Winchester beat them to the punch and I don't think the Remington short magnums will ever do as good. The 300 Remington short action ultramag is nothing more than a short 30-06. The Winchester outpaces it in the velocity department.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Not to hijack but i got a ruger 6mm when my grandpa passed and trying to figure out how old it is. Still has the the saftey on the back that you just slide forward not the 3 position one. It loves the 95 grn ssts but grandpa might have put a differnet bbl on it as i must have got my love of guns from him he was always tinkering. I also got a custom 218 bee breach action with some kind of german reciver and a douglas bll top with a unterl 10x scope that he shot at small bore comps. just need to get that to a smith to do some work to get ready for pdogs next year. i have to find one i trust as that gun is un replaceable.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Kurt, Remington quickly changed to a 9" twist and I suspect that's also what you have in your Ruger. The 6mm's an awesome round. I love mine, but I love my .243's too.

I just use them as they're intended........for mammals smaller than deer oke:


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

The 270 WSM, 300 WSM and 300 RUM are probably the main ones that will survive. The 25 WSSM may find a home in the AR platform, but the rest of the WSSM's are vitually dead.

Besides being something that is just new, which all of us know new sells well when it comes to firearms/hunting/fishing stuff, the WSM's and WSSM's were designed on the inherant accuracy of a short/fat/uniform powder column. The problem with most of them is as follows:

1. They are a lot more expensive than standard ammo.
2. You need 26"s of barrel to get the velocities claimed out of them, which most come with a 22" barrel. Yes there will be some rifles that will shoot close to advertised velocity, but, after shooting 270 WSM's and 300 WSM's across a crony with factory ammo, the velocities are overstated. The 270 WSM was a lot closer to a standard 270 than it was a 270 Weatherby and the 300 WSM had very little on a 30-06 and definately didn't get up to 300 win mag range.

After having owned, shot and reloaded for a 270 WSM and 300 WSM, I would say stick with the standard calibers. There is virtually nothing they will do that a standard caliber will not do. Most of the so called reduction in recoil can be attributed to the much better recoil pads on the market and you can buy light rifles in almost all of the calibers.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> 2. You need 26"s of barrel to get the velocities claimed out of them, which most come with a 22" barrel. Yes there will be some rifles that will shoot close to advertised velocity, but, after shooting 270 WSM's and 300 WSM's across a crony with factory ammo, the velocities are overstated. The 270 WSM was a lot closer to a standard 270 than it was a 270 Weatherby and the 300 WSM had very little on a 30-06 and definately didn't get up to 300 win mag range.


That's some good info right there! One of the claims I get very tired of hearing is that the short magnums duplicate the longer rounds, but do it with less recoil.

And I can't think of an easier way to reduce recoil than by reducing velocity :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

southdakbearfan, you are correct about velocity. The best I can do with accurate loads is 2940 fps for 180 gr and 3225 fps for 150 gr. That is out of a 23 inch barrel. Actually those loads are accurate as I stated, and I think right up to max velocity in my rifle without getting pressure signs. 
I think I only every bought one box of factory ammo for that rifle and I can't remember ever running it over the chronograph. I do remember thinking I can't get factory advertised ammo out of my hand-loads. Then I remembered they based their velocities off 24 inch barres. You may be right about needing a 26 inch, but once you own a chronograph you find every manufacture exaggerates their velocities. If we would have had chronographs 40 years ago we would have discovered some real exaggerations.


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## Bowhunter57 (Nov 28, 2010)

TK33 said:


> Why do you guys feel that there will be a shortage of wssm or wsm brass around?


The short magnums came out based on the findings that a shorter case will produce more speed and less chamber pressures. If you didn't already have a 300 Win. Mag. then a 300 WSM would be a step up. However, if you already own the 300 W.M., the short magnum isn't going to impress you by much and it would only be in ballistics, not killing power or accuracy.

The future shortage will be based on the "novelty" of the cartridge...it's different, but not significant enough for it to stand the test of time. Rifle manufacturers will drop them as soon as they see a drop in sales. The tooling costs to produce the different chamberings will soon override their demand...if it hasn't already begun.

If you want more speed, flatter trajectory and improved killing power, you're still going to have to purchase another rifle in a different caliber. So, it might as well be something in a Weatherby cartridge or simply a larger cartridge.

An example would be: A .25-06 has the same ballistics as a .22-250, but uses almost twice as much lead to get the job done.
A 300 Weatherby has the same ballistics as a .25-06, but uses more lead for the same job.
A .338 Ultra Mag. has the same ballistics as a .300 Weatherby, but uses more lead to get the same job done.
Each one of these cartridges step up in performance, but none of them are going to "die off" in the next few years, as they've been around for a long time and have been proven. Plus, there's no special tooling costs to produce them.

zogman,
That's about all there is to the "hoopla". Hope this helps you in your search for a new rifle. 8)

Good hunting, Bowhunter57


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

If i can still find brass for the 218 bee i am sure there will be no shortage of brass for any of the wsm in the near future at any time. look at the wild cat cals. that you can still buy componets for that is the proof right there.


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Amen Southdakotabearfan.


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## Seven1 (Mar 30, 2010)

I have a Savage 10 300 WSM with 24" barrel that I picked up for $450, shot sub MOA with handloads right out of the box with the cheap Simmons scope that came with it. However, I was getting about 100 fps less than advertised which was a little disappointing.

Decided to go with an aftermarket barrel and ordered a 26" 1-14 twist Shilen, magnum sporter contour stainless barrel. Wow, now I get advertised velocity and then some and accuracy makes me look like a hero. 3600+ fps for 125 g bullets, 3700+ from 110 vmax's and 3300 from 150 grainers, best money I've ever spent on a rifle. I absolutely love 300 WSM, in fact I'm going build another one based off a Savage action in some form of target rifle configuration.


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