# Is this a common practice?



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Good day gents. I have a scenario I'd like your opinion/feedback on.

So...I've been thinking about purchasing a GSP to add to the family. However, I know that I'd like an older, socialized dog as I really don't want to go through the puppy stage right now. I came across a 2-yr old female in TX about five hrs away. Long story short, the breeder was selling her because she had complications with her first litter and had to be spayed.

Inquiring about the dog, I asked the following questions. Her responses are in red.

1. Would it be OK for me to call her Vet so I can
learn a little more about the surgery she underwent? 
If so, can you provide a phone number and let him/her
know that I'll be calling? Also, can you describe her
condition again to me so I can run it by a vet-friend
of mine? She told me the uterus became unattached during birth and that she had her spayed because of this. 

2. In regards to hunting, just how much has she done?
Is she ready to hunt this year? Is she whoa-broke
and will she honor another's point? She has one year of hunting underneath her belt. She is not whoa-broke and will point, but will often break if the bird moves. 

3. How is her retrieving? Do you FF your dogs? If
so, has she been FF? She doesn't know how her retrieving is. Apparently the dog spent 8 months with a friend in Iowa. He'd know more. It has not been FF. Most of her dogs are "natural" retrievers.

4. Was/Is she trained using an e-collar? Introduced to the e-collar only, not trained on it.

So, with all this said. I understand that maybe a dog with only 1-yr hunting may lack in these areas, but is this a dog that should be bred already at just 2-yrs old? I thought good breeders want proven dogs to breed. She comes from a long line of titles, but she hasn't proven anything and now they're selling pups out of her???

Obviously, I've decided against buying her. I'm just curious to know your experiences with this. In searching for another dog, I've noticed a lot of breeders/kennels selling females (both labs and GSPs) that they only used for breeding and don't really have any hunting/FT/HT experience themselves. Is this what a "brood *****" is? If not what is one?

Sorry for the long book, just looking for some help!

Thanks...

Mike


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

Good decision (to not buy the dog)!

Breeding: Some of the big breeders do keep "brood b*itches" for breeding purposes only. If the b*tch is from outstanding field lines and is bred to a quality stud, the pups should be of good quality. As far as not breeding until a dog is two years old, breeders vary somewhat in that. I will not breed a dog until it has at least one hunting season under its belt...I need to see what the dog has. I like to breed on a dog's second or third heat cycle, depending on the dog's age and the time of year. The second cycle usually falls between the age of 18 and 24 months.

I've often wondered what people who have "brood b*tches" do with their dogs when they are too old to breed? A dog that is a good hunter can still be used in the field for several years after they are past the age for breeding, but what do they do with dogs that have never been hunted? I've never been an advocate of getting a pup or dog from a big time breeder.....I just don't believe the pups are socialized the way they should be, I question just how well the owners really know the sire and dam, etc. I'm just much more comfortable getting a pup or a trained dog from someone how is more intimate with their dogs (the smaller breeders).


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## verg (Aug 21, 2006)

I am no expert at the breeding game. But I do/have done some OB training on labs for others. So i know dogs a bit i guess. What i have noticed is that yes a brood ***** is basically that. Mostly used for breeding purposes. I just saw a very nice female lab for sale. She was 5 years old. She already had 4 litters. She had a great pedigree. But how good/proven could she be? When has she had time to hunt herself. Not much i'm sure. 
Again, i'm not a breeder and I'm sure some breeders can chime in on this much better than me. But in MY opinion, hunting dogs should probably be able to prove themselves in the field a bit before they breed. Also, according to my vet a ***** shouldn't be bred until she goes through a few cycles. 
Always have to research and coverse with breeders. Some are in it for the right reasons..to better the breed and enjoyment. Often they don't make a lot of money. Some are in it just for that...money and to make money in breeding you have to pump out lots of puppies.
Just my feelings


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Mike I wouldn't be suspicous of those responses if you confirmed the part about the vet surgery. Everyone of them makes sense to me.

None of those other things are unusaul I would want to see the dog move and see its personality and if it moved well and had good bloodlines and was socialized I would buy it and expose it to a lot of birds.

the is no reason to expect abrood ***** to be steady to flush most year old dogs or inexperienced 2 year old dogs will move on a bird that moves. And no reason for them be FF ed or be e-collar sensitized.

I would ask for references of other customers, hunters only, that have dogs out of the same lines. If they checked out the dog was friendly and the price fair I would do it.

Bring box of quail and plant them and see what she does, if she points I would leave with the dog


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Thanks guys. I appreciate the help. Great responses with good info.


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## mdaniel (May 2, 2007)

I guess I must have been a differant breeder of Golden Retrievers as I only OB Trained the Dogs and breed them twice.. Yes it is bad that some are only out for the pups. I just figured why not have a great mother and pups to show in the field. I always keep some of the b#tch pups.. As I could find a good stud from someone.

I would have to agree with Bobm and do more research as this dog may be a great dog. As I have found that after having a litter the dogs do well. I would do a field test with birds as the dog may have the hunger for hunting and just pended while breeding.

If the price was right and the dog has it take it home, I have as the owner for a trial base in some cases. In a few weeks you can tell alot.


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