# Gun Owners Stabbed in the Back!



## FowlTalker6 (Jul 21, 2006)

Gun Owners of America put a statement on their web that congress has stabbed the Gun Owners of America in the back again, by passing 'The Veterans Disarmament Act'. It passed without a recorded vote and with the fact that most Representatives and Senators were already gone and not even present.

This one really stinks, and reveals some very disturbing qualities of some of those in congress. The only hope now is that it gets to President Bush and he veto's it! My understanding is he only has 10 days to do someting with it or it turns to law. [/b]


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I brought that up a couple of months ago in the political form. I know people don't like getting involved in politics, but if you want to keep your guns you better.
The liberals I talked to about it said I was just using scare tactics. Well, did I? Looks like it happened to me. They know it was dirty, that's why they have no recorded vote. There should never be a vote without record.


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## FowlTalker6 (Jul 21, 2006)

You're right Plainsman, everybody needs to get involved! Look at the bill that has just passed without a recorded vote. It is WAY more than the politicians are letting on.

This Veterans Disarmament Bill will disarm hundereds of thousands of people who may have ever seen a Dr. or Psychiatrist and they feel you are not fit to own a firearm. What Psychiatrist will ever say that anyone is fit to own a firearm? They all think that everyone is a possible danger to others. And that is where the whole problem lies.

This is a bad deal! Everyone should check out the bill in it's entirety. 
Check out the Gun Owners of America website, they have all kinds of info on the bill.

The time is coming to turn in your guns if you sit idly by and do nothing!
Start writing or calling your senators and representatives!

And just for the record, our great North Dakota Senators both supported this bill! I know first hand because I sent numerous letters and recieved several replies from each of them. It was clear to me that neither one of them read the bill in it's entirety, and relied solely on their counterparts words and points of veiw. They both came out and stated they supported gun ownership----but look at their voting records on this issue! It doesn't look to me that they support gun ownership at all!

This is just the start.
[/b]


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

ND's representatives have always been two-faced on the issue of gun-control. They always publicly claim to be pro-gun ownership, but their voting is consistantly the opposite. Its a wonder how they keep getting re-elected......oh thats right, free money for the farmers.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

First place every vote is a voice vote until someone requests a recorded vote. Since no one did then it means there is unanimous consent to the vote which is exactly what happened in both houses. Doesn't sound like everyone was out of town now does it. Instead of listening to Larry Pratts usual ranting it might pay to look into things just a little closer before swallowing. You really think the NRA who endorsed this bill sold you out? Guess it is possible if you are Pratt who has been bashing the NRA for years and wants to be known as the super gun representative in America. the NRA's response is below. Oh, it's the "NICS Improvement Act" and not the "Veterans Disarmament Act", which is another one of Pratts little sucker you in lines.


> Here is the NRA's response to H.R. 2640.
> 
> H.R. 2640, THE "NICS IMPROVEMENT ACT,"
> PASSES HOUSE BY VOICE VOTE
> ...


There were no attachments and the NRA still supports the bill. Take note at present the VA simply sends in names of Vets that have been reported by a doctor to have a mental problem. This will stop that practice and now require a court judge to make that decision after a hearing. Think about it, which is better, having a vets name make it into the system because some 23 year old military doctor made a note on a check in sheet or a court judge sitting in a hearing with evidence presented.

Another quote from Pro Gun Owner S.P. Halbrook, Author and Attorney.



> The Gun Control Act of 1968 imposed a lifetime ban on firearm possession by any person who was ever adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution. The Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986 provided that such persons could petition BATFE for removal of such disabilities, but Congress has prohibited that procedure in annual appropriations acts. For the first time since 1968, the "NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007," H.R. 2640, would allow the states to provide procedures to remove these federal disabilities, and also require federal agencies to adopt disability removal procedures.
> Imposing a lifetime firearm ban on all persons who were ever subject to such adjudications or commitments, without any hope for such persons to prove themselves recovered, is cruel and vindictive. H.R. 2640 would remedy this injustice and allow restoration of such persons' Second Amendment rights.
> 
> Almost all mental commitments and adjudications occur under state law. This bill requires states to have procedures to allow such persons to show that they would not be a danger to public safety. Under H.R. 2640, the State "shall grant the relief" if the person is unlikely to endanger the public. The person would also have the right to appeal a denial to a state court. This is the first time since the ban was imposed in 1968 that persons could seek relief at the state level, thereby reforming current law which only authorizes BATFE to decide on relief. When BATFE used to administer such a program, it granted relief about 40% of the time, but Congress has circumvented that law by defunding the BATFE program.
> ...


As most know this bill came about after the VA-Tech shootings and as one would expect it was the usual gun grabbers in Washington that jumped in feet first. But the fact remains that the NRA has for years been trying to close the loop hole that NICS had that did not allow people to get their name removed from the no gun ownership that is in place today. Thee was also nothing that would force a state to notify NICS when a nut case such as the VA shooter was adjudicated by a court to be mentally dangerous to society such as the VA shooter. This bill closes both those loop holes. If that means someone like Carolyn McCarthy and Chuck Schumer come out looking like roses to their own constituents the so be it. If the end result is a plus for gun ownership then why should you really care.

The NRA has always taken a look at every bill in congress on it's own merits. Does it protect gun owners and is it better than the present law. If it does, they support it. If it doesn't then they don't. Read the bill and you will not find the word veteran mentioned even once. It is simply a smoke screen. If you simply do a little search and reading on this bill you will quickly realize the negative reports on the bill can all be traced back to Larry Pratt of GOA and his drive for membership of the GOA. Before jumping on a wagon, check to see what is being hauled in the back.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Cwoparson, thanks for the information. When that veterans disarmament bill came up it was hard to take serious, but not hard to believe there were some in Washington that would support it. I thought it was to radical to pass, but reported it here in the political form to draw attention to how radical some liberals are. Thank God this wasn't that bill that passed.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

Sorry Plainsman but I was doing a edit on my post while you posted so it wasn't a after thought to your post. Hate when that happens. Anyway, if I, the NRA, and several other groups are wrong then yes this bill would be a slap in the face to to all gun owners. But, at the present I see nothing wrong and am glad to see that killers like Seung-Hui Cho (Virginia Tech Shooter) would have been at least stopped from legally buying the guns he used. It is true he could still get guns else where but at least people like him will be high lighted to law enforcement. If I were going to get upset about this situation it would be with the VA and their simply minded government reporting system in place.


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

I posted this link in a topic below this. Glad to see its being discussed.
Our Founding Fathers were very clear about the 2nd Amendment.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government, those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." 
-Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the More General diffusion of Knowledge (1778).

"To disarm the people (is) the best and most effectual way to enslave them..." 
-George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380.

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-B.

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined...The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.
-Patrick Henry.

"The people are nor to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them." 
-Zachariah Johnson, 3 Elliot, Debates at 646.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." 
-Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334 (C.J. Boyd, Ed., 1950).

I think Americans are a sad lot, too comfortable, too lazy, too ignorant & too stupid enough to care about their personal liberties,. distracted with Infotainment, TV & Sports.
They will get it soon enough, but I fear it will be too late.
Control is one thing, Rule is another.
Ask the Russians, Palestinians or Hungarians what its like to live under Bolshevik rule.


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