# After "Looking for Assitance," we need more....



## Stilllearning... (Oct 15, 2011)

Hello,

My name is Mike and I posted for the first time on this forum a few weeks under the title "Looking for Assistance." Many of you provided excellent comments, PM'd me additional thoughts/information and some even gave me your number and took the time to converse. I really appreciated the help.

On this trip, my Dad and uncle were unable to attend, so I went with my cousin, whom learned he is headed for a second tour in Iraq in May just two weeks before we left and his buddy (also in the military). We were truly excited. We came home, however, confused and frustrated as (and I know many of you will think this is impossible!) we did not get a single goose!

We've now had enough days go by (got home Sunday) that we're ready to dig in and start trying to figure this out some more. Please share your thoughts if you are willing to help us learn more about the sport. Here is the (depressing!) recap of our trip:

Daily recap
•	Day 1 (Wed/Oct 26):
o	Scouted from 4:30 til dark.
o	Found flock of 1,000. Land wasn't posted, so we were excited.

Day 2 (27th) Woke at 4 am, cloudy, high of 38, low 26ish
o	Decided to hunt flock of 1,000, but a red truck was parked in the entrance of the field with ND plates on it. Windows were frosted over, but it wasn't there at 7:45 the night prior. We parked down the road at the next intersection to see if someone would be coming. Within 15 minutes, a 3-vehicle crew with trailers arrived and pulled into the field. We left for our second spot.
o	We couldn't get to the X because of a fence we didn't know about. This was on private land, we know the owner and he is sensitive about hunting near his livestock, so we played it safe. This took us considerable time (were running late already) and we ended up 300 yards E of where we wanted to be.
o	Set up 30 full bodies and 6 ducks. Flagged on and off, nothing seemed to matter (either way). 
o	Saw some flocks, but nothing gave a true look.
o	Scouted, napped till 4, scouted again till dark.
o	A field we spotted yesterday now had grown to about 200 birds, but we were told by the farmer we knew the cows were going to be let out to pasture on Saturday, so we decided to hunt a spot that had about 3-4 dozen birds on it two days in a row the next morning. This time, we spent a lot of time finding the X.

Day 3 (28th) Woke at 4:45, Warm, cloudless day around 45 degrees...way too nice for waterfowl hunting. 
o	Did not use blinds as we had found a lot of straw in the field the day prior. It was in a bean field, but he had put out hay bales and allowed his cattle to graze over a week ago. We covered bodies with straw, lying on cardboard. Very uncomfortable.
o	Set up 30 full bodied, no ducks or socks.
o	Tried flagging and not flagging. At times, it felt like flagging pushed them away, so we kind of stopped.
o	Shot at 1 duck, a flock of 12 geese cupped, but we missed on 4 shots among the 3 of us as we may have gotten a little antsy. No other action.

o	The other spot, which was holding about 200 geese, still had a lot, but not as many.
o	Scouted and found a very large flock in a cornfield close to a large body of water. Many snows, which we hadn't seen many of the first two days of the trip, but saw a lot more of the last couple of days. Decided to hunt that large flock the next morning, as it was too many to pass up. We were very, very excited.
o	Our back-up spot was the place where we had consistently seen the birds coming in since we arrived, albeit in decreasing numbers. I stopped to ask the owner, an elderly widow, about driving our ATV on her field (the land was not posted anywhere) and she told us she would prefer we didn't hunt it as she had been telling others that asked her "no." That felt a little odd as we were simply taking the time to be courteous&#8230;.I suppose we could have just walked our decoys in.

Day 4 (29th) Woke at 3:45, arrived in field at 4:39. 
o	We were extremely confident we would have a great hunt today. Hundreds and/or thousands of birds in the field last night with hundreds more on the water nearby.
o	Hunted a cornfield. Spent a long time prepping our blind.
o	Initially, we set out 31 full bodies (Big Foot and Dakota mix), 24 Canadian socks (in a similar cluster..i.e. not intermixed among the full bodies, but more together with each other), 12 white snows (in a similar cluster), and 6 mallards (in a similar cluster)
o	As the sun came up, we realized we weren't on the exact X, but probably about 80-120 yards E of it. We had initially tried using the tree line behind us to maintain the 180 degrees we learned about via a video someone recommended we watch.
o	Shortly after opening time, someone shot over the water/roost. It is a huge body of water, but we guessed over half of the birds left the pond, many/most of whom went high over our field, none of which gave us a true look. We still had hundreds of birds on the water (we could see them in the middle of the lake, many of which had risen off the water with the gunfire, swirled around and then landed in the middle) and we remained excited.
o	We sat incredibly still for hours as flock after flock flew by, many in rather large groups. 
o	No one in our group can call well, which was frustrating. We tried tearing down the socks, then the ducks. We moved the decoys to different spots, moved our blinds back about 15 yards, flagged, didn't flag&#8230;all while flock after flock went overhead. Heck, we even started calling toward the end of our hunt. We didn't get a look or a shot off.
o	We were now burnt out and incredibly frustrated. What happened?
•	Busted roost that we keep reading about?
•	Did they see/hear us setting up from 300 yards away (and more) and simply remember we were there?
•	Did they simply see us, period?
•	Were we not on the "X?" If not, why didn't they land on the X anyway? Not a bird landed in the entire field.
•	Had they been in the field for many days prior and decided to go elsewhere on their own this morning?
o	We slept all afternoon and then watched our beloved Badgers lose a heartbreaker in the waning seconds to OSU&#8230;.salt on the wound.

Day 5 (30th) Two of us went out until 9:30.
o	Only 9 decoys, no blind, hunkered in some tall grass.
o	Weren't ready right at the opening time and sure enough, four came in, zeroed in on our spot, but Chris was parking the truck and my gun wasn't loaded. One more flock gave us a look, but moved on.
o	Frustrated, at times we discussed giving up the sport all together, with some degree of seriousness. By the time I pulled into my driveway 9 hours later, we were looking at our calendars to see if there was anyway to get one more trip in before things iced over.

I am hoping folks will weigh in on whatever they feel comfortable, as that's how we seem to learn the best. Of course, based on most recent experience, one could argue we haven't learned a thing! Nonetheless, a few questions that we need to know in terms of becoming better hunters are&#8230;.
o	Just how important is calling. Is it possible that is the reason why we were SO unsuccessful? Does a lack of sound coming from 30+ decoys simply shout to a flock "We're not real!"
o	Can we mix full bodies with socks and ducks or not? We've now busted our tail both ways, but with minimum luck either way, so we can't tell!
o	If we find a flock of (primarily) snows in the field, will the respond to Canadian decoys the next morning? Be spooked by them?
o	How many days will a typical flock feed in the same field if undisturbed?
o	I am worried about movement. I felt we were very still, for the most part, but the notion that "if you can see them, they can see you better" is a bit alarming if it references geese I can see ¾ of a mile in the distance. 
o	How far away do folks park their vehicles? We saw farmers' vehicles all over as we scouted, but also heard from guys that were very paranoid about it.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

Embarrassingly,

Mike


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## rottengander (Oct 2, 2010)

Busted roost, getting beat to the field all things that happen to everyone. sounds like you put your miles and hours in scouting and securing fields. thats half the battle. Keep at it my friend, theres a reason its called hunting and not killing. practice calling, sounds like you were trying everything you could with the dekes. just keep at it and eventually youo will hit the sweet spot. good luck.


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

Nobody masters it the first time (or ever really) - sometimes the birds win, plain and simple.

A couple things...on your day 4 hunt, if you were only 300 yards from the roost, that is too close IMO. Sometimes you have no other option but I usually try to be at least a half mile from the roost or if I have to be closer the wind needs to be blowing your sound away from the roost and they need to not see you setting up with your headlights in the field. Otherwise they'll spook when you shoot the first time or spook when you pull into the field. Obviously none of this probably mattered since the roost got busted; tough luck not much you can do.

I would get a goose call and get some simple notes down. Just some simple honks and clucks. It is not very hard with a little practice. You won't sound like a champ but you don't need to. Canadas usually respond very well to calling; I'm not great with a goose call but I've turned plenty of them on a dime and had them come in.

Otherwise make sure your blinds are always hidden and then make sure again. Often a blind looks pretty well stubbled in the dark but once it gets light you realize that it's not. Not quite sure why you didn't use blinds the one day.


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

were the birds using those fields in the mornings as well as the evenings? or were you scouting evenings and hunting the mornings? That can make a difference sometimes. Other than that, keep practicing your calling; sounds like you have the scouting thing pretty much down, but remember, birds can use 2 different fields morning and evening.


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## davenport wa. (Feb 11, 2006)

mike dont fret, it takes a while to get all the stuff together, finding the x has a hugh part of it,, then getting the ok is 2.you have to run your goose hunt like a military operation, dot all the i's and cross all the t"s, experence only comes from practice lots of it. shooten ******* takes a while a to get good at it and just when you think your good you run out of ammo, HAVE YOU TRIED SPOOKEN THE GEESE OUT OF THE FIELD THE NIGHT BEFORE YOU HUNT THE NEXT DAY? Do right when it dark enough to bearly see the geese, and then set up the next morning on the same spot, also after the birds turn on your spred dont flag, they now your there, complete camo,face painte or at least a head net. you might have to use several differant types of short reeds, to find the ones, the birds respond to in that area, some times wood, sometimes plastic.Seriouslu remember if calls, and decoys really worked there be no critters, good luck keep at it, A no bird day is still better that sitting on the couch waiting for goose season, bob :beer:


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

It sounds to me as though your on the right track, only getting a seasons worth of bad luck in the first week. Your doing the important thing, trying to figure out whats wrong. I feel you have enough of the basics down to have a successful hunt, you just got to work the bugs out. Without actualy being "on site" with you there's not a whole lot to go off. I've driven by other hunters and thought "what are they thinking?" Sitting too close to a tree line, truck parked right on top of them or even blinds that were standing out like a sore thumb. I see you hunted on a couple cold mornings, frost can kill a spread. Both on the decoys and the lack of around your blinds. I say the lack of because most guys stomp the hell out of the area next to the blinds. This darkens the ground makes you stand out till all the frost in the field melts off. I try to take care of this by loosly throwing frosted stuble on and around everyones blinds after they get in and stay in. park your vehicle far away as far as possible. Also take a good look at where your setting up, geese can see the contor of the ground and 99% of the time will land on the high spot, this may only be a foot or two cahnge in elevation, but it gives them a vantage point as they start to feed. I've had this happen and only realized when I went back for the truck and turned to look back over the spread sure enough I couldn't see the dekes they were in a low spot. You can find the high point with a good spot light in the morning dark the lows are shadows. Some good responses to take note of: were the birds using those fields in the mornings as well as the evenings? or were you scouting evenings and hunting the mornings? Like mentioned these may at times be two different spots. Of course the best response was "sometimes the birds win, plain and simple"
Good luck and keep us posted,
Cut'em


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## Stilllearning... (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks to everyone who replied. Some really good insight for someone that's trying to figure this out!

The issue of scouting at night and hunting in the morning is new one for me. I thought that was exactly what we were supposed to do, so I never considered they might feed in one field at night and another in the morning. I guess we need to re-evaluate how we scout. If we want to hunt in the morning, we need to scout it the morning prior (i.e. don't hunt) so we know where to set-up. In a five day trip, seems like me might be scouting more than hunting!!! Good to know, though. In the trip we made, we could have scouted the whole time and ended up with the same number of birds!

Cut 'em, we noticed the "trampling" issue you suggested in our first morning hunt. The areas around our blinds were beat down despite our best efforts (not to mention the frost that gets on the decoys, then later the sunny-side being clear, was very frustrating....we'd get out and turn them to get them to melt quicker). In the following morning hunts, we prepped our blinds the best we could 15 yards away or so, carried them to our set-up spot, and finished the job there. It looked much better to us, just not the birds.

I am still looking for any thoughts on the following questions:

o Can we mix full bodies with socks and ducks or not? We've now busted our tail both ways, but with minimum luck either way, so we can't tell!
o If we find a flock of (primarily) snows in the field, will they respond to Canadian decoys the next morning? Be spooked by them?
o How many days will a typical flock feed in the same field if undisturbed?

Thanks again for helping us out you guys.

Mike


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

If your out hunting Canadas don't run the socks. Socks are mostly used to create large spreads and are easier to transport, not needed in your early season Cananda spread. The duck dekes, you can mix a couple in with your full bodies. If you find a group of snows and have no snow decoys, what I've done is set out 4-6 Canada dekes and use them as a visual point for the snows. Sounds strange, but where I hunt there's rarely ever snows, but on the occasions when they're in the area this has worked. I set the Canada dekes out in the field where the snows have been feeding, they didn't want to land with them but circled over them, making large circles dropping lower each time. They'd fly towards us, pass over the dekes then circle half way down the field. 150 passes later and they were in range. We've got birds three times doing this and only seen Snows 4 -5 times over the past 15 years. Birds will feed in the same field till the food sorce is gone or the neighboring roost freezes over. If I'm scouting a couple days before I go out, I watch how the geese are feeding, if they're moving alot it may mean the food pickings is getting slim, if they seam to be standing still and feeding, the field should hold up for quite awhile. Once you see them moving around get ready to scout another area in the very near future.


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## SDOutdoorsman (Mar 9, 2009)

If you have scouted a good field and are on the X I would ditch the socks and use just the full bodies. If you are trying to run traffic and pull migrating birds I would use the socks but would put them on the far end of the spread behind me.

The snows are not going to decoy well into your Canada decoys. I'm not saying that you wont ever get one to decoy into them, but if I found a field that only had snows in it I definetly would not set up in it the next day with Canada decoys and expect to shoot anything. The Canada decoys wont spook them and they may land in the same field but dont count on them decoying right in.

How many days they will feed in the same field undisturbed just depends on how much food is in the field. If their is tons of food for them then most likely they will keep going back.


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## Stilllearning... (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks, you guys. That really helps.

We're going to head back for a second time if the weather holds (i.e. they don't get 6 inches of snow) until the weekend of the 19th. Never hunted geese in a snowy field before, nor have we hunted them when the sloughs/small ponds are frozen over. I assume they still feed, but would imagine finding them might be harder.?. Really, have no clue, but am simply guessing.

Mike


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## Sgt_Hub (Nov 20, 2011)

Well the first thing i would say is to make sure you have mudded your layout blinds and try setting them up for crossing shots. Second is work on your calling. I would not say it is the most important thing but it does help quite a bit. As far as your decoys go i would put like 2 socks for every dozen full bodies mixed together. This will add just a little bit of motion to your spread. You can run ducks with the goose decoys but i would seperate them. I like to put the ducks on the upwind side of the geese and off to one side. If you are hunting lesser or cacklers you can even put a couple snows mixed in with your canadians.

But like everyone else has said, it is hunting. Just keep at it one great hunt will make all the time, money, blood, sweat, and tears well worth it. I cant tell you how many times ive gone out and not seen a darn bird! But i still do it and just find myself getting more and more into it. Great job on the scouting and NOT shooting the roost. Next trip take some pics of your blind and spread and such and post them up so people can get a better look at what you have going on.


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