# Velocity vs Mass



## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Here's something I was puzzling over the other day as I loaded up coyote medicine for the upcoming season.

Would a 40-grain bullet traveling at 3,750 feet per second have more energy at the point of impact than a 50-grain bullet traveling at 3,000 feet per second at the point of impact?

As you can see the 40-grainer is only 4/5 the size of the 50-grainer but the 50-grainer is only traveling at 4/5 the speed of the 40-grainer.

Does velocity trump mass or is it vice versa? Any of you reloaders know of a formula to figure this out?

(Less than six weeks to go -- counting down the days). Saskcoyote


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

mass * acceleration = force

But that will only get you what you want at a certain point.

Lots of things stuck in the mix with gravity, frictional forces, it BC of the bullet.

What bullet are you using? I'll stick it into a program and get it for you.

Here is a sample though if you're using Nosler Ballistic Tips.

40g @ 3750
100yds 0" 3265.8fps 947.1ft/lbs
200yds 1.78" 2832.7fps 712.6ft/lbs
300yds 7.93" 2439.5 fps 528.5ft/lbs
400yds 19.97" 2079.1fps 383.9ft/lbs
500yds 40.14" 1751.9fps 272.6ft/lbs

50g @ 3000
100yds 0" 2619.9fps 761.9ft/lbs
200yds 3.6" 2270.2fps 572.1 ft/lbs
300yds 14.01" 1948.3fps 421.3ft/lbs
400yds 33.65" 1656.5fps 304.6ft/lbs
500yds 66.09" 1402.7fps 218.4ft/lbs

I hope this gives you a baseline anyhow. So just from this data, you're better off shooting the 40g. Drop, velocity and energy are all better.
I assumed you weren't go out past 500yds, but if you want I can run the numbers for further.

xdeano


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Thanks for the reply, xdeano. By your 'mass*acceleration=force', I'll assume it's the same as 'mass X velocity=energy'. So would it be correct to, for example, insert into the formula '50 (mass/grains) X 3,000 (velocity/fps) = energy'? If it is, how do I get the answer in foot pounds? I never was very good at math.

Here are the bullets I've loaded up that you might plug into your program.
1) 50-grain Speer TNT HP with a muzzle velocity of 3,165 (chronoed).
2) 40-grain Berger HP with a muzzle velocity of 3,784 (estimated).

So with all things being the same such as BC and air pressure, what would the foot pounds be for each bullet at distances in 100-yard increments? Up to 500 yards would be fine -- I can hardly see that far let alone hit anything from that distance. LOL.

Thanks. :beer: Saskcoyote


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Saskcoyote,

50g TNT @ 3165fps
100yds 0.00" 2752.9ft/sec 841.2ft/lbs
200yds 3.12" 2376.0ft/sec 626.7ft/lbs
300yds 12.46" 2029.8ft/sec 457.4ft/lbs
400yds 30.31" 1716.2ft/sec 327.0ft/lbs
500yds 60.1" 1443.4ft/sec 231.3ft/lbs

40g Berger @ 3784fps
100yds 0.00" 3118.3ft/sec 863.5ft/lbs
200yds 2.13" 2542.8ft/sec 574.2ft/lbs
300yds 9.73" 2034.3ft/sec 367.6ft/lbs
400yds 25.91" 1594.7ft/sec 225.8ft/lbs
500yds 56.04" 1251.0ft/sec 139.0ft/lbs

now with these numbers you can see that your energy will cross at 150yds or so giving the weight of the bullet a small margin over velocity. But your velocity will get it to the mark faster leaving less room for gravity and frictional forces to act on it.

The equation would have to alter a bit.

I tried to mess with it a bit, but couldn't come up with what i wanted either. I'll play with it a bit more. I'll let you know what I come up with.

xdeano


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

To find your energy(force) it would basically be the same formula, only altered to find the kinetic energy at a given point.

so:

Energy(kinetic) = 1/2mv^2 x (1ftx lfb/7000gr x 32.1739ft^2 /s^2)

Here we go.... The velocities came from the 40g berger @ 100yds
Here is what we know 
V=(velocity)=3118.3ft/square second
M = 40g
Acceleration due to gravity is 32.1739ft^2 /s^2, it is our constant.

E = 1/2 (40g)(3118.3ft/square second) x (1ftx lfb/7000gr x 32.1739ft^2 /s^2)

E = 1/2 (40g)(9723794.89) x (1ftx lfb/7000gr x 32.1739ft^2 /s^2)

E = 194475897.8 x (1/7000x32.1739)

E = 863.503371189 ft/lbs energy

it comes out the same as the computer generated.

Talk about raking my brain over a hot coal.

I wouldn't want to do that every time i wanted to know what my energy was.

I hope this helps.

xdeano


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

Awesome posts Xdeano that is some very useful information :beer:


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

xdeano, my head's aching as well just looking at the formula -- let alone the ciphering required -- to get the energy answer.

Your calculations have answered my question. The 40 grainer from my .204 and the 50 grainer from my .223 are actually quite similar in terms of energy so on that basis, one doesn't have a lot of benefits over the other, at least from the distances I shoot.

And I'm sure many coyotes this winter will die a more peaceful death knowing they got whacked with a 40-grainer with 863 foot/pounds of energy or a 50-grainer boasting 841 foot/pounds. :lol:

Thanks for taking the time and effort. Good luck with the upcoming yote season. :beer: Saskcoyote


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## ay tee (Jun 11, 2007)

lyonch said:


> Awesome posts Xdeano that is some very useful information :beer:


now i just need to figure out how to use this information...  
on second thought... i think i will keep using the loads i got!!


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

10-4!!!

I hate Physics, but I got an A in College for it, it was a pretty steep grading curve. 

It is so much easier to look up the answer on a ballistics program.

xdeano


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

saskcoyote you might want to take into consideration the bullet make up. Maybe you already have, this is just my opinion now, but i would prefer a bullet that will penetrate good with no bullet splash than a bullet that will have 22 more pounds of energy. Who knows maybe i am just preaching to the choir :-? Good luck in your decision and dont forget to post some results.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yo, lyonch: I haven't really been too preoccupied with the energy aspect -- I was just curious and was wondering if anyone had some ideas how to calculate it. xdeano did a wonderful job. The energy, though, won't be a factor in what or how I choose to reload.

Even with velocity, I don't pay too much attention to it because I'm more concerned with accuracy. The 100 or 200 fps I could squeeze out of a certain load is secondary to the grouping. Ironically, though, most of the loads I find to be most accurate are those loaded to max or near max.

As for bullet types, the Speer TNT HP 50-grainers have been doing a fine job in the .223. Speer says they were designed for the slower speeds such as what I've been cookin' up and from what I can see, they've worked great for me.

I just got the .204 and haven't whacked a yote with it. I've decided to try the 40-grain Berger based on what I've picked up from this site (especially kdog's .204 posting a while back) and other sites. I was concerned about 'splash' so chose the Bergers and from what others are saying 'splash' shouldn't be a problem. I load up 32-grain Sierra BKs for the gopher patch, however, where 'splash' isn't an issue.

This is getting long but before I quit, just one more thing. My goose-hunting buddy and I went driving tonight looking for Canada geese for our first shoot of the season. We came across two road-killed yotes. That reinforces what I've been thinking all along based on the howling and sightings near my place -- it's going to be a banner year for yotes.

By the way, Snowgooser, I got drawn under Earn-a-Buck for mulies in Zone 14 along with antlerless moose. Who knows, maybe I'll bump into you and we'll :beer:

Good luck and shoot straight. Saskcoyote


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