# e-collar questions



## Joe05785 (Mar 12, 2007)

Well I have been kicking around getting an e-collar for my 8 month old lab for a while now. However, I dont want to rush into it and ruin him. I searched the forum trying to find some information on what exactly is meant by "collar conditioning" If someone could give me some guidance on that it would be much appreciated. Also, from what I have read the actual brand of collar is more prefrence than anything. I'm probably looking at one of the dogtra's or tri-tronics. One last question, any recomendations on a book or something with a collar training program? Thanks in advance for any advice.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

I am not experienced with other brands, but if you buy TriTronics, it will come with an instructional DVD, and info on where to order more detailed training information. If you follow the instructions to a "T", you and the dog should both learn a great deal, the right way.
Good luck with your pup, Burl


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

I would recomend a tritronics over all other brands, if you follow a proven CC program you will need a collar that has momentary (nick) and continous pressure. Read and watch as much as you can on this subject befor even thinking about turning the collar on. A collar conditioned dog is a wonderful thing if done properly, if not you can ruin a dog befor you know it. A properly conditioned dog will jump into there collar befor a training session.

Reading material.

1. The smartwork serries br Evan Gragham

DVD's

1. "Fowldogs I" I feel has the best footage of acual CC of real dogs going through this part of there training, the DVD that comes with the Tritronics collars is OK but by no means the best info out there

If you are going to try and do this yourself and have never done it befor try and get some help from a locale pro or from someone who has done it befor.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

I also recommend the TT collars, either the Pro 100 or 500. Jim Dobbs wrote and excellent book on the electric collar for TT and it is still available.

Many times people separate collar conditioning and collar breaking or training. To me, they're all the same. Many consider collar conditioning the act of just letting a young dog wear a collar continually for at least 30 days before training begins. One of the more important things to consider is not to immediately create a "collar wise" dog. Whenever that dog goes out for training or a walk, the collar should be on him. Never give him a command you are not capable of reinforcing when he is not wearing the collar. He should associate the collar with all pleasant things and should never be let out without it. The collar should mean fun.

Collar "breaking" is the act of overlaying all fully taught obedience and force commands with the collar for the stimulus. You can't "teach" a dog anything with the collar only, you can merely reinforce what the dog has all ready been taught.


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## HarryWilliams (Nov 2, 2005)

Collar conditioning is but one part of a "Training Program". For the best results a step by step program should be used. Like starting with the foundation and work your way up. It doesn't work as well to try to put the roof on before the walls are framed. Now that I got that off my chest:

I prefer Tri-tronics and I really like the Mike Lardy collar conditioning tape. HPW


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

Collar Conditioning is a way of making your dog know how to turn off pressure by complying to your commands...

I would highly recommend Smartwork Obedience DVD or Smartwork vol. 1 book

Or Fowldawgs 1 is outstanding for the money as well..

As far as an e-collar brand I highly recommend Tri-Tronics or Dogtra..


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## Joe05785 (Mar 12, 2007)

I did a lot of reading today and it seems like tri tronics is the best bet. As far as begining the conditioning and training program there were a few different schools of thought. One one side people said that while conditioning the dog to give the nick then the command and let off of the e collar as soon as they acomplish the command. Others said not to give the nick until after you give the command. This seems to be minor discrepancy, any opinions on which school of thought is better? To me it seems as though the poke before the command would do a better job of allowing the dog to associate turing the discomfort off by complying with the command. I could be wrong though.


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

I use continious and momentary both depending on what concept I am teaching..


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## duketter (Nov 24, 2004)

I have the Dogtra 1600 NCP collar and it works great. No problems whatsoever and it has nick, continous and pulse(vibrate). I like these three options as I sometimes use the vibrate command to actually make the dog stop and sit where he is at in the field if I prefer not to use the whistle or my voice command.

The reason I choose Dogtra over TT is it was cheaper and had the vibrate option. I am not saying one is better than the other but for the price I couldn't go wrong. I would buy a Dogtra collar again in a second if needed. Just my opinion.

Also, just my opinion again but my thoughts are 8 months old is a little young for an e-collar. I just feel at this age more people use it as a crutch then actually teaching their dog the commands properly. Example, instead of making them sit or stay and working with them, the user would just shock them right away. The dog may or may not know what they are suppose to do. Maybe you have your dog well taught at this age and maybe not? I would just consistently work on the commands and have him have fun this year hunting and look into one possibly next year.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

Goosehunterdog said:


> I use continious and momentary both depending on what concept I am teaching..


Same here it all depends on the concept you are teaching. It would be best for you to find a retriever club to join and get around some people that can help you out.

For the money you can't go wrong with the Fowldog DVD"s Rick's program is very through and straight to the point and very resonably priced for the amount of effort that went into them.

http://www.finelineretrievers.com/


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Joe05785 said:


> I did a lot of reading today and it seems like tri tronics is the best bet. As far as begining the conditioning and training program there were a few different schools of thought. One one side people said that while conditioning the dog to give the nick then the command and let off of the e collar as soon as they acomplish the command. Others said not to give the nick until after you give the command. This seems to be minor discrepancy, any opinions on which school of thought is better? To me it seems as though the poke before the command would do a better job of allowing the dog to associate turing the discomfort off by complying with the command. I could be wrong though.


Every training method Ive read about sandwiches the nick between commands (sit 'nick' sit). Seems to make a lot of sense to me. That way when you are working with the dog and giving plenty of freebies you can choose to nick the dog after giving a command and the dog is slower to react, thus showing the dog to avoid pressure by reacting to the command quickly.

I have only been through CC with my one dog and I used mike lardys e-collar conditioning. I would highly recomend it as he has a very well laid out program that explains the goals and reasons behind his ways. It also leads up to CC with OB with other forms of pressure to help the dog understand how to deal with the different pressure from the E-collar.

You also cant go wrong with the fowl dawgs DVD's. Rick really packed a lot of great info into the dvd for the price.


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

I would recommend Smartwork Obediance by Evan Graham
Mike Lardy's Total E Collar Conditioning
or Fowldawgs 1

I have them all in stock if interested..You can see at

www.mclabstrainingsupplies.com


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## Springerguy (Sep 10, 2003)

I have two collar units - an Innotek and a Sportdog, both are two dog collars. I've come to the conclusion that Innotek should change their name to Innojunk. I was in ND for the youth opener this past weekend and, once again, I had problems with one of the Innotek collars. They are fine to use in the backyard but are totally unreliable in the field. Once they get wet you never know if they'll work - and they will break in sub zero temperatures. The Sportdog has been far more reliable.

Be cautious using an e-collar if you haven't used one before. I screwed up my first springer because I didn't have a clue what I was doing. When I picked up our brittany I had the trainer teach me how to use the collar properly.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Now, there is an exception to this rule, but only one. I will nearly always command the dog first, then nick the dog. The dog has to have a chance to beat the command if he's to be a happy collar dog. Now, the exception. If I told a dog sit or down, the dog complied, then disobeyed the command, in that situation I would immedieately hold the button down on ga low-mid intensity *then* give the corrective command. With a pointing dog same thing if he creeps on the bird. A dog has to work to a command to understand the correction.


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## Ripped Off (Dec 11, 2007)

I would like everyone to know that I put down over $275 for an Innotek system. I ordered it from Cabelas because I thought that such a reputable company as Cabelas would have screened the products that it puts in its catalogues. I feel I have been totally ripped off by Innotek (primarily) and Cabelas (secondarily).

The system never worked properly from the time I opened the box. In the box was an insert which said in effect "if you have problems with this unit, return it to the manufacturer not the distributor (ie Cabelas).

Eventually the unit stopped working entirely, so I sent it back to Innotek. They immediately sent me another unit -- another defective unit that worked erratically for a couple of weeks and then died completely.

I called up Innotek, chewed them out and asked for my money back. They said they were sorry and that they would send me a replacement unit. They sent me another unit -- another defective unit. I worked erratically for a couple of weeks and then died completely.

I called Cabelas and asked for my money back. They said sorry that the deadline for returning the unit for a refund has passed and that there was nothing they could do about it. They told me to call Innotek.

As you might guess, my blood pressure went to dangerously high levels.

I'm over it now, but I'm out $275 -- ripped off by a manufacturer which has no qualms about ripping people off.

Please let your fellow dog owners know what kind of products and service Innotek delivers.

P.S. Cabelas still carries Innotek products as their flag ship line. It is called Cabela's GUN DOG series.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Heres a detailed list of training articles using ecollars that would be worth your while to read

this is the website of the guy that Gonehunting mentioned

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/index.html


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