# 777 Powder weights. Pellets vs. loose.



## Goshawk

I'm still trying to understand powder weights that are really volume weights.
If you weigh two 50gr. pellets of 777 and pour off 100gr. volume scale of 777 do they each weigh the same?
Thanks,
Goshawk


----------



## Sabotloader

*Goshawk*



> I'm still trying to understand powder weights that are really volume weights.
> If you weigh two 50gr. pellets of 777 and pour off 100gr. volume scale of 777 do they each weigh the same?


When you say weigh - I am assuming that you mean weighing on a powder scale... if so...

2 - 50 grain pellets if regular T7 should weigh about 64.6 grains by weight

100 grains of loose T7 should weigh right @ 77 - 78 grains.


----------



## Goshawk

Thanks,
So then, how are they the "same weight" if there is more material in one pile than the other?
I know I'm missing something here and apologize in advance for the dumb questions.
Goshawk


----------



## Sabotloader

*Goshawk*

Well that is the/a problem within muzzleloading. There is weight and there is volume - BOTH of them are measured in grains. When you and I think grains, especially if you are a reloader, you think WEIGHT on a scale. If you are an old time black powder/muzzleloader shooter when you grains you should be thinking VOLUME almost like individual pieces.

Black Powder was measured by the SPACE that it takes up when it is placed in a container and that space is referred to as #number of grains that it takes to fill that space.

Most ML powders, weather it be real black powder or the the newly manufactured substitute powders, are engineered to match the volume measurement to produce a given amount of pressure and yet still maintain the nomenclature grains.

In GENERAL always measure ML powders by volume not weight. If you do decide to measure ML propellent using a powder scale then you have to create a conversion factor.

Now the T7 factor.... Hodgdon's Triple 7 powdersoes not follow the normal substitute rule. It is a stronger powder, creates more pressure by volume than do the real black powders or the other subs. Gun manufacturers started building stonger guns and called them 'Magnum black powder' guns and they were they could easily shoot 150 grains of powder - Black Powder or any of the subs except T7 which needs to be loaded by volume to a factor of about 15% lower than the other powders - so in one of these magnum guns you would reach the limit at a 122 grains of T7-2f and even less with T7-3f.

Hodgdon then confused the world by creating T7 pellets, but manufacturing the pellets to match the pressure capabilities of regular BP or BP subs (actually loading them DOWN to BP pressures).... that way you could shoot magnum 150 grain loads of T7 pellets in those 'Magnum' guns.

Sory for the length just hope it is not all that confusing - I did very poorly in english writing comp...


----------



## barebackjack

Everything thats been said is good info.

If I were you, id stick with loose powder. The pellets are convenient, but thats about it. I weighed a box of 777 pellets. Pretty sure I could teach a monkey to weigh out more consistant charges. Their "standard deviation" from one pellet to the next was horrible.

With loose powder, youll get more consistant charge weights. Which will give you more consistant velocities and pressures, which will give you better accuracy. Youll also in my experience, get more consistant fouling in your bore, and make cleaning easier. Those pellets are norotrious for leaving a "fouling ring" that can be a bear to clean up, especially in cooler temps.


----------



## alleyyooper

You also get more shots per dollar with loose. Pellets are not really more conventent. Yes you can carry them in your pocket and just drop one two three or four down you bore. What do you carry them in so they don't asorb moisture or break up? In a tube just like you can put loose powder in. How do you get an 85gr. load with pellets? You don't.
Pellets are a marketing ploy just like magum muzzle loaders.

 Al


----------



## Goshawk

Got It.
Goshawk


----------

