# .22 LR groupings



## Ace25 (Dec 18, 2004)

I recently bought a .22 Marlin bolt action 980S rifle. I mounted a 1.5 x 4.5 scope on it, and away to the range I went. After sighting in the rifle to get close to the bulls eye, I started experimenting with different ammunition. I shot 10 shot groupings at 50 yards with the scope set at 4.5x. I was shooting prone with a good rest and less than a 5 mph wind.

I shot Winchester regular and hollow points, Peter, Federal, CCI velocities, CCI pistol match and regular Remington ammo. All of them produced between a 2" and a 2.5 inch 10 shot group. 
The Remmington Yellow Jacket HP, CCI rifle Match Ammo, and CCI mini mags produced about a 1.5 - 1.75 inch 10 shot group at 50 yards.

The CCI Stingers consistently seemed to shoot the most accurate group at about 1.25 inches. They are a bit more expensive, I think they are about $3.00 for a box of 50, but the muzzle velocity is about 1600 fps, which is quite a bit more than most of the other ammo at about 1050 fps.

What is a good grouping for a 22 LR at 50 Yards? I'm not real impressed with a 1.25 grouping at 50 yards.

Should the gun shoot better than this? :-?

Thanks for any feedback


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

For that gun, and the price I would say it's fine. The stingers do have a lot of power and it should be a good squirrel gun. If you want to shoot a 1/2 inch at 50 yards you will have to spend a bit over 300 on a thompson.


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## gunattic (Jan 9, 2005)

I guess I'd expect better accuracy myself but yours is the 1st gun I've ever heard of shooting best with stingers.. I'd like to have a gun that liked that ammo. 1/2 at 50yds is not so unatainable.. lot's of reasonable guns can get there or close.. 10/22's, keng's, marlins, savages.. sometimes you really have to do your homework though... checking individual shells for headspacing, weight, oa length, etc... etc. the science of it sometimes can never end in the search for a tight group. and on that.. sometimes you get a gun that prints well.. and sometimes you don't.. I tend to trade or sell the ones that don't.. and have learned to hang on to the ones that do.


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## Ace25 (Dec 18, 2004)

I have heard that the Thompson shoots great groups, but isn't that a semi-auto? (I don't know about you, but when I shoot a semi auto, I usually go through about 3 times as much ammo  )

Does anyone have an opinion on the Cooper 57M Classic?

Thanks


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I would take a pass on the cooper, I heard some poor things about them. Take a look at the CZ's, very affordable, accurate. www.cz-usa.com


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

MT, you have heard poor things about the Coopers? I'd like to hear about it. I've never heard a bad thing about them, but have a hard time justifying the cost.


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## Ace25 (Dec 18, 2004)

I have done a little more research, and apparently for the price of the gun a 1.25 inch group isn't too bad at 50 yards. No, not ideal, but i paid just under $200 for the rifle. So, that is probably to be expected. I ran accross this site: http://www.davidtubb.com/ff_22.html so I order some bullets. I thought it might be worth trying.

I'll let you know my results


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Ace
I have used that stuff on a .270 and it works pretty well. Don't know wheather I would do it on a .22 though.


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

I've never owned a good .22, but the groups you are getting sound better a lot better than the groups I get out of my 10/22.

Neil


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## Shooter (Sep 21, 2004)

I shot my 10/22 consistently for about 3 or 4 years. When i had it sighted in good, there wasn't much that I would miss. I rarely took it out and shot targets but often would shoot rabbits, squirrels, birds and gophers with it. I'm not sure what the groups would have been but it was plenty accurate for anything that I found to shoot.


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## Ace25 (Dec 18, 2004)

I just noticed something else that might be affecting the grouping size. ME! :-? lol Just the other night I was mounting a scope on Winchester model 54 30-06. I don't have any special tools to bore sight it, so I took the bolt out of the gun and laid it on a sand bag. My intensions were to look down the bore, pick out a spot and then look through the scope to see how far off I was. Something weird that I noticed, leave the gun completely stationary and put your eye up to the scope with out touching the gun on your cheek. When looking though the scope, pick out a spot and then ever so slightly move your head side to side or up and down. Notice how the crosshairs move off the original target! :roll: I did this in my dining room the other night, If I had picked an object at 50 yards, I think I could be off by 6" or more. I thought I did something seriously wrong when I mounted the scope, but I set my marlin 22 down beside it. It was completely stationary, I looked through the scope with out touching the gun and ever so slightly moved my head. (wow, the cross hairs moved a long way) It reminded me of running a half mile, picking up a gun while standing and trying to hold it steady on an object at 200 yards&#8230;
I suppose this is why it is important to put your cheek up to the gun the exact same way every time you shoot. Hmm, I'll have to consciously think about where I put my cheek when I'm sitting, standing and shooting prone. They are probably all just a little different. Has anyone else noticed this about scopes before? I suppose this is the same reason that scopes need to be sighted in by the person that is shooting the gun.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I believe thats parallax (I may very well be wrong) but it will happen with all scopes.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

The high end scopes are much less prone to do that.


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## gunattic (Jan 9, 2005)

Ace, that is parallax you describe and if you have a scope with an adjustable objective lens (the one opposite the eye end) you can dial that phenomenom out. Your scope is parallax free at some distance..maybe 75 yds.. maybe 150yds.. but somewhere that scope will not move the cross hairs when you move your head. Another trick to use on a scope without an adjustable objective lens is to pull your eye back until the dark circle around the cross hairs is very small.. then center your cross hairs in that circle. This will help when shooting.. especially for shooting off a bench, but the best thing to do, and you've seen a good reason for it.. is to get a scope with an adjustable objective.


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## Ace25 (Dec 18, 2004)

I learn something new everyday. Now I can add the word parallax to my vocabulary. Considering I was doing the testing in the house and the point that I picked out was a mere 15 - 20 feet, maybe it wont be nearly as bad at 50 or 100 yards range. :wink:

At the moment I'm using a Leupold LPS 3.5-14 x 50 on the 30-06 It has a side focus, so I would assume that is for parallax. The Marlin 22 has a cheep 1.5 - 4.5 x 32 deer hunter scope on it. I doubt that it has a parallax adjustment. The 30-06 is currently my "project" gun, If I recall correctly it shoots 5 - 6 inch groups at 100 yards. I think I have my work cut out.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> If I recall correctly it shoots 5 - 6 inch groups at 100 yards. I think I have my work cut out.


Boy howdy, If I was you I would check the crown and the bedding or pressure points on the barrel, sometimes it works like magic.


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## Ace25 (Dec 18, 2004)

MT,

I found that there may have been a lot of pressure on the barrel from the stock, right in front of the chamber. When I took the stock off the screw from end of the stock, (where the sling attaches too) was also sticking out. I filed the screw down to size, and sanded the 6-8 inches in front of the chamber underneath the barrel. Now I can have all screws the hold the barrel on tight, and the gun now passes the dollar bill test.

Now I just have to find a quiet day to see if that helped.

Ace25


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## Browning (Jan 25, 2005)

Ace, this is parralex, messed me up the first time also, try getting a new scope if its not adjustable, but if it is, just adjust it to a lower setting, good luck!!!!!!


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Ace25 said:


> I learn something new everyday. Now I can add the word parallax to my vocabulary. Considering I was doing the testing in the house and the point that I picked out was a mere 15 - 20 feet, maybe it wont be nearly as bad at 50 or 100 yards range. :wink:


Ace what you might want to consider is getting a scope made for 22's which are parallax free at 50 yards. Most other scopes are generally parallax free near the 100 yard range. You can buy scopes that have a parallax adjustment on the end of the forward lens that you set by turning a ring on the lens but these cost more. You mentioned the groups of 1.5 inches which isn't bad for a 22 out of the box but if you really want to tighten those groups up I would look into a trigger job. Most people never realize just how much the sights are pulled off by a heavy trigger. When you start the trigger squeeze and the gun surprises you when it fires you have the trigger adjusted just right and those groups will tighten up.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

I was given an old Marlin Model 25 .22 LR Bolt Action Rifle. This old Rifle needed a lot of TLC, which I gave it. In addition I also reshaped and refinished the stock. tuned the trigger pull, and cleaned the heck out of everything.

I was at our Indoor Shooting Range tonight shooting this rifle. This Rifle wears an old Tasco 4x40mm Rifle Scope, and is set to be Parallax Free at 100 yards. At the 50 feet of our indoor shooting range I could move the point of impact + or - 3/4" just with eye placement. The funny part was side to side there was virtually zero parallax, but up and down it was horrible.

I then switch to my Ruger K77/22VBZ in .22 LR that I use for competition at our range. This Rifle wears an older Japanese made Simmons 8x32x44mm AO Target Scope that will eliminate Parallax at 50 feet. Even though I was quite pleased with the groups I was getting with the Marlin and the 4x Scope, the groups with the Ruger and the Target scope were about 1/4 the size of the groups I was getting with the Marlin.

Yes parallax can really wreck groups at distances closer than the scope is set parallax free for.

Larry


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