# Are sportsman killing to many Ross geese?????



## boranger (Mar 11, 2008)

does anybody think we may be shooting to many ross geese?


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## SDwaterfowler (Mar 2, 2006)

I have wondered the same. I don't know if their population is overgrown like snow geese but when we hunt the majority of our bag is usually ross due to how well they decoy. I went out 1 1/2 weeks ago and my whole bag was ross.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Ross goose populations are growing faster than snows.I doubt we can overkill them.


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## jim6897 (Aug 27, 2003)

Rossies are one of the fastest growing populations of waterfowl I am not sure how that can be given their desire to dive bomb decoys spread but that is what I have been told


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## boranger (Mar 11, 2008)

we kill so many more ross geese when we hunt than snows,if i did not kill ross geese or young geese,I dont think I would kill very many some days!


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## Goose Guy350 (Nov 29, 2004)

Ross geese were traditionally just a Pacific Flyway bird so just the fact that we are shooting them in the Central Flyway should be an indication of how much their population has grown and their range extended. I'm not sure how far east they have been seen but I know in a Zink video they shoot some in Ohio, they have went a long way east in a short amount of time.


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## Large munsterlander1 (Feb 11, 2008)

I can rember when the spring season started and i had never even seen a ross goose then a couple years down the road we started shooting them. Now i am suprised if i dont kill one! The population definetly grew bigger from prior years. I was also told that ross geese are better nesters not sure if it is true but it does seem to make sense.


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## brobones (Mar 10, 2004)

The CWS doesn't think that the ross goose population warrants a spring season that is the reason there is not one in Canada.
Does any of this make any sense NO! But we have that stupid law in Canada


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## Roughrider (Apr 12, 2005)

I have also noticed that while jumping snows more ross fall in porportion to snows and blues, we figure it is because of the thinner skin and lighter bones. Kind of cut back on jumping because of that. More Ross in the Edmore/Langdon area this year than ever before.


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## Goose Guy350 (Nov 29, 2004)

Brobones - Hows the spring been so far for you? Saw the pics on Avery, very nice


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

Brobones, it is my understanding that the CWS did not of the proof needed to include Ross to with stand a court challenge (and yes there was a lawsuit). But it is my understanding that now they do. So not sure why they are not including the Ross now. Maybe contact a senior CWS offical as to their plans to include Ross in the spring.


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## brobones (Mar 10, 2004)

H2O here is a link the refuge in regards to the ross goose debate. Canuk does work for the CWS and is a biologist. He states that there is a difference in regards to the population #'s between the CWS and USF&WS .

You might have read this all ready if you haven't there is some interesting facts being stated or so called facts!

http://www.refugeforums.com/refuge/show ... 708&page=2


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

Goose Guy350 said:


> Ross geese were traditionally just a Pacific Flyway bird


 I am not so sure about that statement, as Mn is in the MS flyway, and for 40 years Ross geese have been listed as legal waterfowl to shoot along with the S&B geese.

Go to Brobones link, one of the links on that topic shows the extent of the Ross, clearly more a MS and Central flyway bird and none in Alaska which is Pacific flyway.

edit-also see 2 posts down.


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

Reg,
Thanks for the link, no I missed that topic. I usually stay the hell of of that forum as too many US guys always begging for something from the Canadians. :roll:

But I did make a post there on the topic at hand.


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/repor ... 202007.pdf

Read page 43 Fig 20 on the ross geese at one colony. And read the text, it begins on page 41, and ends on page 43, only a few paragraphs. This basically gives the USFWS standpiint of population of Ross.


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## brobones (Mar 10, 2004)

Yes I have read that document that you are referring too the ross numbers are high. 
Here is a quote from page 8 from the document below in regards to CWS proposing a change to the populations of Ross geese and make them hunt able in the spring.



> In Canada, the court ruled that the scientific basis of the
> Arctic Ecosystems in Peril report did not adequately address the
> population status of the Ross's Goose, which would be affected
> by harvest that was directed at mid-continent Lesser Snow
> ...


Here is the link

http://www.jncc.gov.uk/PDF/pub07_waterb ... t6.1.3.pdf

The real question is with this sort of evidence in hand why has there been no change to the law to allow the hunting of Ross.
I think the CWS is to complacent and maybe there has not been enough attention to this law to be changed from sportsmen.

Thats all I will have to say on this topic for now.
enjoy the reading I know I always find it interesting to see agencies contradict themselves


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

brobones said:


> The CWS doesn't think that the ross goose population warrants a spring season that is the reason there is not one in Canada.
> Does any of this make any sense NO! But we have that stupid law in Canada


Well,maybe not 10 years ago.The thing is that Ross have been expanding into the Central Flyway.There is no spring season in the Pacific Flyway,which is where most of the Ross winter.So there is no problem with them in that flyway.Those birds migrate up through Sask. and Alberta which also has no spring season.Plus doesn't yours in Sask close May 1?Basically to protect Ross which are last to migrate.

I would think the CWS could make Ross legal in Manitoba and east of Meridian 106 in Sask.Maybe they will in the future.


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## possumfoot (Nov 7, 2006)

Goose Guy350 said:


> Ross geese were traditionally just a Pacific Flyway bird so just the fact that we are shooting them in the Central Flyway should be an indication of how much their population has grown and their range extended. I'm not sure how far east they have been seen but I know in a Zink video they shoot some in Ohio, they have went a long way east in a short amount of time.


we have been killing them for the last 4-5 years in Tn. but the last 2 years have really seen an increase in ross's.


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

brobones said:


> The real question is with this sort of evidence in hand why has there been no change to the law to allow the hunting of Ross.


Reg, It is my opinion that pressure from hunters like yourself in SK and MB may force the CWS to take a look at it. Maybe getting Delta Waterfowl to write a letter based upon the scientific basis would also be of help for the 09 season. So networking with fellow Snow hunters and getting a petition would be a good start.

I mentioned before, I believe hunter recruitment would be higher if Ross were allowed in the spring, and I know that it is a big concern (dropping junter #s) for some Govt officials, so that could be the thing to get the officials off their butt and propose that Ross be included.

And possibly too, us non residents could do a petition basically saying, that we would go to Mb and Sk in the spring if the Ross were allowed. But without local grass roots support, us NRs views are merely an add on, and thus can not be the focal point, but rather a supportive one.


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## AWO (Mar 9, 2008)

We'll never be able to kill enough of them off using conventional hunting methods. Writing up a petition and getting the law changed would be a huge benefit to the Canadian economy, just think of the added numbers of N/R hunters in the spring. Hopefully things will change soon for you guys north of the border. :beer:


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

I just do not think there would be that many NRs hunting in MB and SK in the spring if the CWS did change it so Ross were allowed. Sure a few die hard hunters will go, but I highly doubt you would see the same #s like in the Fall being there are no other bird oppurtunities in the spring.

Now if gas was $1.50 a gal, then yes perhaps more would go, but when it is $4.50 a gal in CA write now, how many are going to go?

Would the NR give a slight boost to the local economy in the spring? Yes, even if 1 party of 4 were in town, that is 2 rooms for 6 nights, meals, convenience store purchases, etc... better than nothing for the local merchants. Heck that $600 motel room bill could mean the difference if they were in the black or in the red that month as April is a slow time for motel opperators.

But I do think more residents would hunt the S&Bs if Ross were allowed. And hunter recruitment is a key issue for CA considering they have lost over 40% of the hunters in the last 20 years, perhaps even a higher % in some provinces.


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## SDwaterfowler (Mar 2, 2006)

I agree that allowing Ross's in your bag in the spring would not increase the number of NR hunters. The NR's that do get up there in the spring are the die hards that are going to go whether they can shoot ross's or not. I also agree that allowing ross's to be shot in the spring would help boost the number of resident hunters. Especially, those that are new to the sport and may choose not to go if ross's can't be shot as they are not confident in their abilities to distinguish between a ross and a snow. But the spring CO is not based on boosting the economy in Canada. It is there for 1 reason and 1 reason only, which is to reduce the population of birds that have grown so overpopulated that they are a threat to their own existence. Since it sounds like this is the case with Ross's now, I am all for them being added to the CO in Canada.


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