# Obama "Lipstick on a Pig"



## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

Just curious how the dem's might spin something like this if Hillary was running and McCain said it. I don't know if Obama was saying this regarding Palin or not, but nonetheless it proves he is no less senile than the left wants us to think McCain is. How stupid do you have to be to say something like this?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

It was clear to everyone laughing and clapping. Wow how juvenile do you get? Of course he will come out in a day to clarify, and his minions will say shame on you of course he didn't mean it. Your mean spirited to think such a thing. Haaaaa. He thought he was cute.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Now tommow it would be funny to have Palin wish Nobama well in holding to his faith! You know his Muslim faith! 

By no means do I think he is Muslim, but he said it and it should be fair game!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'll tell you what, with that comment there goes my opinion that he is actually intelligent. Just what we need a asinine juvenile in the White House.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Ron Gilmore said:


> By no means do I think he is Muslim


Ron ... With this guy ... Don't bet your life on anything.

There is no way to know what he is or isn't.

He sure as hell ain't fit to be President of the United States of America, any way you slice it.

I once heard someone I respect say this ... "If you know somthing is wrong, you don't need to know a lot of detail ... if you know it's wrong that's all you really need to know".


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> It was clear to everyone laughing and clapping. Wow how juvenile do you get?


That is the Dem Sheep They need to change their logo from adonkey to a sheep Baaaaaa baaaaaaa baaaaa










Here they are blindly following Obama


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

This one's going to cost him. The tail-spin has begun. 8)


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

He is reaching blindly now... that statement will be his downfall.


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## vtrons (Feb 14, 2008)

I DO NOT want Nobama in office, but, I cannot see this video clip as something to rally around.
He is clearly referring to policies, and nothing else.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

From the Washington Monthly

LIPSTICK ON A PIG.... I suppose it's possible for our political discourse to get even dumber, but it's hard to imagine how.

Last October, asked about Sen. Hillary Clinton's health care plan, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., was blunt. McCain said Clinton's proposal was "eerily" similar to the ill-fated plan she devised in 1993. "I think they put some lipstick on a pig," he said, "but it's still a pig."

A common expression, right? McCain surely wasn't calling Clinton a pig. After all, McCain's former press secretary, Torie Clarke, wrote a book called "Lipstick on a Pig: Winning in the No-Spin Era." Elizabeth Edwards told some health journalists that McCain's health care plan was like "painting lipstick on a pig."

Tonight Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., said of McCain painting himself as a change agent, "You know, you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig." ... "You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called 'change,'" Obama continued, "it's still gonna stink after eight years. We've had enough of the same old thing! It's time to bring about real change to Washington. And that's the choice you've got in this election."

The McCain campaign called Obama's comments "disgraceful" and demanded an apology. The campaign added that Obama, in addition to calling Palin a pig, might have also been calling John McCain a fish, which, of course, would also require an apology.

The media seems to find all of this fascinating, as if use of an old American expression, utilized by all kinds of political candidates from both parties for generations, might be some kind of sexist insult -- not when McCain used it to slam Hillary Clinton, but only when Obama used it to criticize the Republican campaign in general.

It's honestly like being stuck in a "Twilight Zone" episode in which reality has no meaning at all.

Obama campaign senior advisor Anita Dunn said, "Enough is enough The McCain campaign's attack tonight is a pathetic attempt to play the gender card about the use of a common analogy -- the same analogy that Senator McCain himself used about Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton's health care plan just last year. This phony lecture on gender sensitivity is the height of cynicism and lays bare the increasingly dishonorable campaign John McCain has chosen to run."


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> A common expression, right? McCain surely wasn't calling Clinton a pig.


That does put it in a different light. I had never heard that expression before. I have heard you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, but not lipstick on a pig. If that's common it's time to move on. Sorry, didn't mean to say move on.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Hey Bob, it's called politics :lol: nice to see you slumming again


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm watching Obama's reaction. When he does things on little notice he does poorly. He is handling this well. What I can't shake out of my mind is this whole thing could have been a well planned, well executed poor misunderstood me. I mean what would work better than going with an old lipstick cliche knowing full well that many would associate it with Palen after her comment on what's the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Then when he gets jumped for it he goes into victim mode.

I don't know, but I would rather let one guilty man off the hook than persecute one innocent man. If something relative happens again I would say he is planning it and these comments are not accidental. In that light they would be planned to get the sympathy of people.


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## Lil Sand Bay (Feb 2, 2005)

This brew up actually says more about the McCain campaign effort then Obama. I'm suprised that one of Senator McCains staff rememberers didn't realize the boss had already used that old bromide during the Hiliary primary campaign, before trying to make it into something it was clearly not. For an effort in a national presidential campaign that attempted spin was extremely inept, and frankly embarassing.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Lil Sand Bay said:


> This brew up actually says more about the McCain campaign effort then Obama. I'm suprised that one of Senator McCains staff rememberers didn't realize the boss had already used that old bromide during the Hiliary primary campaign, before trying to make it into something it was clearly not. For an effort in a national presidential campaign that attempted spin was extremely inept, and frankly embarassing.


spot on Lil Sand Bay

It hilarious that instead of considering Obama's message in this clip that instead the masses here focus on his play on words.

Notice not a comment about the substance of the message, which was also pointedly accurate.

Anyone heard any policy statements by McCain lately?

Nope. All we hear is more about other things that don't matter instead of how one will rule once he becomes the ruler

Man I wish I could walk into a job and say "Hey don't worry about the details of whether I can actually do the job effectively! Just look at my past character builiding moments! Ohh and I have this cute little pit bull as my best mate. Hire me already [email protected]!


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> Anyone heard any policy statements by McCain lately?


Oh my God!!! Pot/kettle???

Change, change........what kind of change????? :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

When I heard Obama say this, I sure didn't immediately connect it to Palin or her speech. Guess you read into things when you want to.

http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/09/09/obama-mccain-spar-over-pigs-and-lipstick/


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

djleye said:


> > Anyone heard any policy statements by McCain lately?
> 
> 
> Oh my God!!! Pot/kettle???
> ...


All you have to do is compare the acceptance speeches of the two Presidential candidates.

One discussed actual policies and change. He talked countered policy attackes that were leveraged against him.

The other talked about.... hmmmm now what did he really talk about? Anything of substance? Ohh yeah.. I almost forgot.. himself and his life experience shaping who he was. Same song and dance.

Is anyone else blind to the fact that his camp is trying to buy time (days) without having to really say anything? Between not talking anything about policy and hiding his VP candidate behind handlers, you really have to wonder if they are running afeared.

just sayin'


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Ryan are your arms tired yet from your cheer leading program?

Two things happened with this comment! One it has shown that NObamas Teflon suit is no longer complete. A short time back this statement would have been received by the press and media as being hard hitting and showing a link to Bush by McCain.

Instead he is being treated like any other candidate for the first time. He is being called sexist. This of the candidate that has been playing the victim role accusing McCain and others of playing the race card. It worked against Hilary, but his own actions removed tool from his war chest.

If this scrutiny continues, he will have to start providing details of his policy positions much more clearly. That is a good thing for the voters. If he does not, this also will be a good thing for the voters, because it will show that it is all talk with no substance.

Many politicians have had gaffs that derailed their dreams. History will tell if this was his "KA KA" moment! It matters little what his intent was, it is all about how it is perceived.

If this grows legs, you can bet a 527 group will air an ad claiming he called a lady a pig! Fair or not, it is what it is!!!!!


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

Ron Gilmore said:


> Now tommow it would be funny to have Palin wish Nobama well in holding to his faith! You know his Muslim faith!


 You mean "Christian, No Muslim, No Christian, No Muslim....Oh think,think, think....who am I talking to? Which of the 57 states am I in? oh crap! If I can pull this off this act for just two more months it will be a miracle!" :stirpot:


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

Hi Ryan :koolaid:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

seabass said:


> When I heard Obama say this, I sure didn't immediately connect it to Palin or her speech. Guess you read into things when you want to.
> 
> http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/09/09/obama-mccain-spar-over-pigs-and-lipstick/


Actually his audience picked up on it immediately and seconds later started chanting no more pit bull, no more pit bull, no more pit bull. Obama relished in it so it give pause to his real intentions. If he meant it or not you had to be real slow not to make the connection. 
I think I am being extremely fair giving him the benefit of the doubt. I know you liberals on here wouldn't do that for McCain.



> Is anyone else blind to the fact that his camp is trying to buy time (days) without having to really say anything?


I sure wouldn't say anything if the guy was already doing a good job of making a fool of himself. Why bother. It's like worrying about a one legged man kicking your behind.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Whistler31 said:


> Hi Ryan :koolaid:


Whistler!

Where ya been brother?

Get in here and start firin' away at me!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> seabass said:
> 
> 
> > When I heard Obama say this, I sure didn't immediately connect it to Palin or her speech. Guess you read into things when you want to.
> ...


I agree with you Plainsman.

I do think it was a bit of a double entendre', but I also think that he did it intentionally, knowing that the play on words could have either intent, equally debatable I might add (just like we are doing)...

But as was mentioned earlier.. the McCain campaign wrote that speech, and they knew that it had already been used earlier in the Dem campaign. If they didn't they are truly foolish.

But I agree either way...

I don't agree Ron that the comment will ever get legs. Not considering the comment was made earlier this year about someone/thing different. The McCain campaign should have known not to use it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I do think it was a bit of a double entendre', but I also think that he did it intentionally, knowing that the play on words could have either intent, equally debatable I might add (just like we are doing)...


Yes, better to debate things we know. For example we all know he is a conniving socialist.


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> seabass said:
> 
> 
> > When I heard Obama say this, I sure didn't immediately connect it to Palin or her speech. Guess you read into things when you want to.
> ...


I can't get onto you tube at work, so I am unable to see or hear what happened. I just read it. (although above I erroneously stated that I had "heard" it. I have not).



> If he meant it or not you had to be real slow not to make the connection.


Plainsman, if I remember correctly, in a post some time ago you were convinced that the fact that the manual that came with your TV set was printed in several languages was a liberal agenda (and not because the tv set was sold in several countries). Soo... back to my original point -- we all make connections where and when we want them to.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Ryan you are mistaken, WSJ,Washington Post are two major newspapers to carry the story line that NObama has taken a swat at Palin. Now the McCain Camp has taken a play out of the DNC and NObama camp and has produced this ad!






Watch how this plays in the swing states like WI,MI,OH,FL and even in MN and CO!

He is going to be explaining his comment away taking him off message while the McCain and Palin will remain on message!!!!!!

You Ryan are a bit to young I do believe to remember and understand how this type of thing will play with people. Like I said, before it takes away Nobama and his surrogates to cry racism when he is defending himself from sexism!

This is brilliant in regards to sustaining support he gained from the RNC in St Paul!


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

R y a n said:


> [ but I also think that he did it intentionally, knowing that the play on words could have either intent, equally debatable I might add (just like we are doing)...he McCain campaign should have known not to use it.


It's hard to imagine that he would knowingly call her a pig. What to gain? The play on words, if intentional, wasn't _that _good, or worth the risk.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

seabass said:


> R y a n said:
> 
> 
> > [ but I also think that he did it intentionally, knowing that the play on words could have either intent, equally debatable I might add (just like we are doing)...he McCain campaign should have known not to use it.
> ...


good point seabass

What I should have said.. is that he took out words and placed them into his speech. the lipstick was a subtle jab at Palin, the entire quote of "Lipstick on a pig" is something that was said in an earlier speech by the Dems...

The play on words was crafty in that he can make it appear that he was referring to the old Dem qoute, but yet a little hint at Palin can be inferred, whilst maintaining plausible deniability.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Ron Gilmore said:


> You Ryan are a bit to young I do believe to remember and understand how this type of thing will play with people. Like I said, before it takes away Nobama and his surrogates to cry racism when he is defending himself from sexism!


Just out of curiousity Ron, do you know my age?  I've been voting in Presidential elections since 1992, and been interested and following politics 4 years prior to that.

Are you referring to something from back in the 70's?


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Folks are making way too big of a deal about this. Frankly, I think that the Republicans are looking for an excuse to say that they were insulted. Big, mean Dems are picking on poor little hockey mom. 

Grow a pair and stop your whining.

The phrase, "put lipstick on a pig" is a common one. Heck, it is a running joke in the ND legislature. A couple of sessions ago, lobbyist made the statement, "You can put lipstick on a pig, but it is still a pig. This bill is a pig" at a hearing when the lead sponsor was sitting at the table. That lobbyist was promptly run out of town and hasn't set foot in ND since. Whenever folks talk about lobbyists sticking their foot in their mouth, they'll start out saying, "You know, you can put lipstick on a pig...." and everybody laughs because they remember the incident.

This is a common phrase. Obama wasn't calling poor little Sarah Palin a pig. He was calling the McCain platform a pig because there is nothing new there.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Door #1


> The play on words was crafty in that he can make it appear that he was referring to the old Dem qoute, but yet a little hint at Palin can be inferred, whilst maintaining plausible deniability.


Door #2


> Obama wasn't calling poor little Sarah Palin a pig. He was calling the McCain platform a pig because there is nothing new there.


Ahhhh let me see now????? Well, if Obama really does have a brain I think I'll taaaaaake door number 1 please. Duuuuh ok ok how much do I get, I know I won, come on, come on, how much do I win?

Sorry BigDaddy you loose. :down: I think your just trying to save your hero. I think Ryan nailed that one square on the head. I think Obama and the boys sat around and said this would be cool we can call her a pig, and if people get angry we can say it's a common phrase and you misunderstood poor little me. Waah, I'm a victim of big, mean, nasty McCain. Perfect plan if you have no substance.


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> I think Obama and the boys sat around and said this would be cool we can call her a pig, and if people get angry we can say it's a common phrase and you misunderstood poor little me. Waah, I'm a victim of big, mean, nasty McCain. Perfect plan if you have no substance.


I'm glad sharptail season opens this weekend, cause plainsman, you've gotta get out more!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

I was right about your age Ryan! I date back to watching the Nixon/McGovern campaigns and then the battle between Ford and Reagan before Ford finally won. I have seen campaigns turn on a single stupid mistake.

I have seen them lost with a acceptance speech as well like Mondale running against Reagan even with Iran/Contra hanging over his head and the memory fresh in everyones mind of Nixon.

The people have not paid much attention the past few months. Rep nomination was wrapped up early. Those who where supporting NObama and or Hilary where really the ones engaged during the primary fight. Debate ratings showed that!
But think back to your first chance to vote. *Read my lips *sank Bush Sr the second time around. It caused many to flock to Perot thinking he had a chance. It gave Clinton the ablity to say without any credibility that it was the economy! Which had rebounded and was on the upswing!

Then Dole/Kemp ran a pathetic campaign in 96! Dole resigned to get some news coverage which did not help. Neither Dole or Kemp where ever on the same page in regards to message at anyone time. The single most important thing they could have hammered Clinton on was his inaction and lack of response to the 93 truck bombing of the World Trade Center. They tanked it!

Then look at 2000! The phrase *LOCK BOX *sank Gore!!!!!!!!!!!

This has legs already, even MSNBC the Obama station is calling into question Obama's intent. If they see it as being hot even though damaging you know it has gathered steam!!!!!

Watch the talk shows tonight! The brunt end of the joke is going to be on Obama!

Then couple this with Nobama being pressed by O"Riley and it will be a bad week for NObama again! Two in a row after the month of July where McCain did a great job of defining him as the empty suit he is!


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Come on now. This is the same guy who was childish enough to give Hillary the finger and claim it was all honest.

Barack Obama Gives Hillary Clinton "The Finger"?


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## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

I had never seen that clip of Obama giving the finger. I am starting to like that guy a little bit! 

It is obvious that he is a pampas prig who thinks he can get away with whatever he wants.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> I think Ryan nailed that one square on the head. I think Obama and the boys sat around and said this would be cool we can call her a pig, and if people get angry we can say it's a common phrase and you misunderstood poor little me.


Don't ever say that I am partisan folks 

I call it like I see it... for both sides..

I just tend to see more fodder on the McCain side of late.

If Obama keeps this up... I'll have more to post that way too...

JGat just beat me to the post. Great post JGat.


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## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

Sorry, I had to sneak an edit in there and put in that last line. You probably don't agree with that part. :lol:


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

Longshot said:


> Come on now. This is the same guy who was childish enough to give Hillary the finger and claim it was all honest.
> 
> Barack Obama Gives Hillary Clinton "The Finger"?


yeah, he is a spoiled little boy, who without a daddy, never got his *** spanked....his time is coming though...... :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Come on folks if little old us can see it and this guy is a genius he could see it coming before his mouth opened up. I think he was planning on the sympathy he would get playing the victim. How sweet huh, call Palin a pig and everyone feels sorry for him. Ask yourself how much you trust him. Add the finger, and it looks like Ryan is more right each moment.

Heck I was willing to give the man the benefit of the doubt and Ryan and Longshot together showed me the error of my ways. :thumb:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Forgot that one Longshot!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Now that you all have had your fun...

I ask you... pot. kettle?

Let's review the words said in context shall we?



> "John McCain says he's about change, too-except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics. That's just calling the same thing something different."
> 
> With a laugh, he added: "You can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change; it's still going to stink after eight years."


Obama is clearly talking about Bush's policies, which McCain embraces, and not McCain's dishonest, shrill, unfit ,annoying chihuahua running mate. Even if you infer like I did that he was using a double entendre', the hilarious thing is how bent out of shape all you have so classically gotten so quick.

*And* if it "crosses a line" for Obama to use the "lipstick on a pig" expression in reference to policies... what about *McCain using the expression in reference to Hillary Clinton?*






Once again I ask all of you...

Pot. Kettle?


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Well it looks like the lipstick quote is not the only thing in question about his speech. "Is his speechwriter a Cartoonist?"

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/10 ... ign-trail/



> Barack Obama's "lipstick on a pig" comment grabbed all the headlines Wednesday, but a line he delivered just before that remark is leading critics to wonder whether the Democratic presidential candidate's speechwriter is a cartoonist.
> 
> On Tuesday, for the third time in four days, Obama borrowed a lengthy bubble quote from Washington Post cartoonist Tom Toles. He did not acknowledge the origin of the quote the first time he used it and credited the cartoon only after the Post contacted the Obama campaign to ask about the first use.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Ryan:

I think that you need to sign up for the RNC email distribution list and get your head straight. Don't you get it? McCain isn't a hypocrite.... Obama is just a mean guy picking on a woman.

Come on, you need to get back to the talking points:

1. Obama is still a Muslim (even though it's not true)
2. Obama will raise everybody's taxes (even though his plan would lower taxes for 80% of the citizens)
3. McCain and Palin are mavericks and straight shooters (even though the campaign is based almost completely on falsehoods and emotion)
4. McCain and Palin are geniunely offended by Obama's remarks (forget the fact that McCain used the same expression recently)
5. Anything negative about McCain is an attack by the liberal media
6. Obama won't get specific (even though he has outlined specific plans to address education, the economy, an energy policy, and withdrawal from Iraq time and time again)
8. McCain is a veteran and former POW and it's outright unpatriotic to question his honor, health, or positions on issues
9. The statement about lipstick and pigs is important (even though the vast majority of citizens want to talk about issues)

and last,

10. If you say something often enough, fools will believe that it is true (which IS true but very sad).

Now, get your head straight and start drinking that RNC Kool-Aide. You know, the RNC hates dissenters.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

you forgot one

Don't say anything about Obama or you will be considered a racist


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> 10. If you say something often enough, fools will believe that it is true (which IS true but very sad).


Works for Obama. 

O'Reilly is just coming on. His headline is the new low some people are stooping to by attacking Palin's religion. Should be good.

O'Reilly thinks only the Daily KOS would be low enough to think Obama was talking about Palin with the lipstick comment, and only Daily KOS is low enough to attack Palin over some of the things they have.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Plainsman, you ever stop to think between your Kool Aide sips why the McCain/Palin campaign is acting like they are so insulted. Every minute or day they spend acting insulted and insinuating alterior motives is another minute or day that they have to face the public and talk about the issues. Come back to the issues, and the McCain/Palin ticket is a dud.

Please, can somebody please tell me why they would consider wasting their vote on a McCain/Palin ticket? They have nothing to offer the country.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Come back to the issues, and the McCain/Palin ticket is a dud.


How about lower taxes?
How about tax on our homes when we sell them?
How about not turning our children into perverts in sex education?
How about drilling for oil?
How about keeping private health care?
How about winning the war instead of appeasing terrorists?
How about working for America rather than trying to please Europe?
How about family values, read no same sex marriage?

It has as much to do with what they will not do as what they will do. The list could go on and on because Obama is wrong in so many ways.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> How about lower taxes?
> How about tax on our homes when we sell them?
> How about not turning our children into perverts in sex education?
> How about drilling for oil?
> ...


Sorry, Plainsman. Your list of conservative catch phrases and rhetoric doesn't pass muster. Be specific. What are the specific differences between the candidates on these issues? Don't post rhetoric. Instead, list specific sources, numbers, impacts on our economy, etc. Tell me how McCain's position on these issues makes this country better.

I think that you will find that the only card McCain has in his deck is his former POW and veteran status and an impression that he is a man of honor and high more principle. This fake outrage at the pig comments leads me to believe that he doesn't have any advantage there. I think that he might have to hand in the "honor" card and begin standing on his own two feet.


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## Daren99 (Jul 6, 2006)

Big Daddy Obama has alot to offer the country he's gonna lower taxes, so that not only do people not trying to better themselves don't have to pay taxes, they get more money back. Lets see he's going to raise the taxes paid by huge corparations, great, I wonder who's going to end up paying for the increased cost of doing business? Obama is going to hire more teachers, pay them more, help pay for college for your kids, give us free health care... I wonder where this money is going to come from? Oh I forgot, he's going to tax me If I sell my house, he's gonna tax me If someone dies, he's gonna bend me and every other american over, oops I forgot not all americans those not trying to better themselves are going to end up in pretty good shape.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

BigDaddy said:


> Plainsman, you ever stop to think between your Kool Aide sips why the McCain/Palin campaign is acting like they are so insulted. Every minute or day they spend acting insulted and insinuating alterior motives is another minute or day that they have to face the public and talk about the issues. Come back to the issues, and the McCain/Palin ticket is a dud.
> 
> Please, can somebody please tell me why they would consider wasting their vote on a McCain/Palin ticket? They have nothing to offer the country.


130 "present" votes cast by NO-bama as a legislator......no position, no change!


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

Daren99 said:


> Big Daddy Obama has alot to offer the country he's gonna lower taxes, so that not only do people not trying to better themselves don't have to pay taxes, they get more money back. Lets see he's going to raise the taxes paid by huge corparations, great, I wonder who's going to end up paying for the increased cost of doing business? Obama is going to hire more teachers, pay them more, help pay for college for your kids, give us free health care... I wonder where this money is going to come from? Oh I forgot, he's going to tax me If I sell my house, he's gonna tax me If someone dies, he's gonna bend me and every other american over, oops I forgot not all americans those not trying to better themselves are going to end up in pretty good shape.


*and don't forget your 401K, you worked 30 years to accumulate?? yes, that will be treated as a "windfall"......taxed somewhere between 28-39%.

by gawd, that sounds fair, now doesn't it??  :eyeroll: *


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

> 1. Obama is still a Muslim (even though it's not true)


Tell me when and where McCain has made this statement? For the most part, when the false letters and claims have come on this site and others I go to at times. Most of the time the first person to correct this or point out the claim is false are people like myself. Conservatives who realize that there is enough other reasons to not vote for NObama than to perpetuate a false claim!


> 2. Obama will raise everybody's taxes (even though his plan would lower taxes for 80% of the citizens)


Let's look at this claim. One of NObamas claims is that anyone under $250,000.00 will see a tax cut under Nobama. In his original plan he was proposing allowing all of the current tax law to expire. After getting beat up with this, he modified it with a income limit I already posted. Facts on this are simple people currently paying no tax will get additional money from the Gov. People in the $60,000.00 range may see a $500.00 reduction only if they have kids and those over $100,000.00 will see increases in taxes with an example last night on CBS News showing that a family of three kids making $213,000.00 would have a new tax bill of over $5000.00

Now couple that with the removal of SS payroll limits, increases in capital gains! Another area where he has changed his tax figure but not the amount of of money he says it will bring in for him to spend. He has lowered this figure from 30% with no exemptions to 20% with some exemptions on folks under $250,000.00! You may not realize it but farmers more than anyone are going to be hit the hardest with this. I am self employed I pay 15 % payroll up to the limit. Farmers are the same, nobody paying in half. Farmers and small business operators are going to see 50% tax rates.

That means less wages for workers, less capital purchases which equates to less jobs etc..

McCain's plan of keeping the current tax plans in place and adding child credits will not inhibit job growth or capital investments.
Then there is the death tax, which there is no logical reason for this to be in place. Taxes have already been paid on assets and cash with the exception of IRA accounts. McCain is not going to change it back to limits of $600,000.00 like Nobama is proposing.


> 3. McCain and Palin are mavericks and straight shooters (even though the campaign is based almost completely on falsehoods and emotion)


Lets look at this one also. McCain has a record of being against pork spending, a record he is proud of and is running on. He has authored Legislation with people from across the aisle. He voted against the current tax codes only because he wanted offsets in spending. He has admitted that the reduction in taxes increased revenue. Like it or not he worked with one of the more liberal member of Congress to reduce lobby money funding campaigns. It was not great legislation, but it shows his long term commitment to the things he has said about himself.

Palin record is clear in that she beat a corrupt sitting Gov and then force out a corrupt AG both of which where of the same party she is from. She forced oil companies to pony up on infrastruce costs and returned this money to the tax payers of AK.

What has Obama done? I have that covered as well in a later post on ethics reform!!

Nobama on the other hand has shown no across the aisle bi partisan work, has made many claims about his Leg record in both IL and the Senate that are flat out lies or partial truths. I will post a list with accurate info outlining this later!


> 4. McCain and Palin are genuinely offended by Obama's remarks (forget the fact that McCain used the same expression recently)


This one I do not know, but I have pointed out that by doing what they did it takes the claims of racism off the table when they are not warranted.


> 5. Anything negative about McCain is an attack by the liberal media


NBC has been shown to support this claim. However, fair comparisons and accurate reporting of ones position or voting record is not an attack. You do not have the years of time in Washington or as many votes without some of them being poor. However distorting his record like why he voted against the tax cuts without including his reason is false reporting. 


> 6. Obama won't get specific (even though he has outlined specific plans to address education, the economy, an energy policy, and withdrawal from Iraq time and time again)


You obviously have not watched O'Riley interviews or the Q&A debate before the conventions. He talks in sound bites on energy and when pinned down avoids a direct answer. O'Riley asked him tonight about missile shield for Poland. It took 4-6 times of Bill pressing Nobama before he finally said he would leave it in place, but said it has to work first.! News Flash it has been successfully tested with a 22 out of 23 success rate on ICBM missiles.


> 8. McCain is a veteran and former POW and it's outright unpatriotic to question his honor, health, or positions on issues


No it is not, but claims that McCain has exaggerated his treatment and that these times are not part in part what has shaped his character is outright false.



> 9. The statement about lipstick and pigs is important (even though the vast majority of citizens want to talk about issues)


 Is it important, that is going to be up to the voters to decide. Like I said before responding to it was brilliant in that it takes the racism threats off the table. Rasmussen polling indicates that it is having an affect on undecided voters. Some feeling it was an intentional sexist remark, thus explaining why he did not take Hilary as his running mate. Others felt that this comment used in the context it was coupled with the fish wrap slur was unbecoming of a Presidential candidate and it undermines his claim of being an agent of change. It paints him as just another Washington politician.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Sorry, Plainsman. Your list of conservative catch phrases and rhetoric doesn't pass muster. Be specific.


Tell me your kidding, How does one be specific about a negative. No taxes. I guess no new taxes doesn't register with a liberal. In all seriousness I know you understand what I am talking about , your not a dense person, but you do play liberal games. What is it you can't understand? There are a half dozen of us around here willing to help you.



> What are the specific differences between the candidates on these issues?


Everything I listed. Obama wants an end to the Bush tax cuts, McCain doesn't. Obama wants about ¼ of what my house gains me in capitol gains when I get old and head for the nursing home. Obama thinks our six year old need to know about gay sex. Obama may or may not want to drill for oil that changes. Obama wants socialized medicine. At one time Obama said this war is lost, which was wishful thinking on his part. Obama considers himself a world citizen and kisses up to Europe and many people outside of the United States. Obama is for same sex marriage.

Now do I need to go through the whole list again and say McCain is not for these things. Don't worry BigDaddy your inability isn't frustrating me.

There are many other things nearly to numerous to mention. I will just say that I think Obama is wrong on nearly everything. I notice there are already other posters listing more things. 401K's for example.

So what's in it for you BigDaddy? I don't want to give the government more of my money. I don't want to tax companies so they move to Korea etc. I don't want to pay for the taxes that companies have to pay. It's all a one way street with liberals, the working give and some lazy bum sucks it up.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

I had a long day on the road today and enjoyed listening to Rush and picked up a great analogy......

"If I were to say something like, 'Anyone with pig's ears shouldn't throw pig slurs,' would anybody think I was making a direct attack on Obama? Hmm? Just illustrating a point here. You should see the wide-eyed fear on the looks of my staff on the other side of the glass."
:lol: :lol:

That and Biden tellin' the wheelchair bound state senator to stand up. Classic!! :lol:

A pair of bungling idgets looking to be masters of the free world.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Here is a list for Big Daddy to digest! This list was compiled by a LA talk show host. I have Factcheck and Snoopes checked these and could not find any incorrect in their claims with the exception of #7 I was going to delete it but thought BigDaddy would appreciate me leaving in since then he could claim it blosters his position on the issue of his religion!

.) *Selma March Got Me Born - NOT EXACTLY, *your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.

2.) *Father Was A Goat Herder - NOT EXACTLY,* he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government.

3.)*My Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter - NOT EXACTLY*, he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had.

4.) *My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom - NOT EXACTLY*, your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya . It is the first widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your half-brother, Abongo Oba ma, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone.

Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and tried to get Sharia muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the elections, his followers have burned Christians' homes and then burned men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took shelter.. Obama SUPPORTED his cousin before the election process here started. Google Obama and Odinga and see what you get. No one wants to know the truth.

5.) *My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian - NOT EXACTLY*, she does her daily Salat prayers at 5am according to her own interviews. Not to mention, Christianity wouldn't allow her to have been one of 14 wives to 1 man.

6.) *My Name is African Swahili - NOT EXACTLY*, your name is Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.
Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African ***** from his father's side. While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya , his father's family was mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African ***** and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate even states he's Arab, not African *****).

7.) *I Never Practiced Islam - NOT EXACTLY,* you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years, until your wife made you change, so you could run for office. 4-3-08 Article 'Obama was 'quite religious in Islam'' http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=60559 
8.) *My School In Indonesia Was Christian - NOT EXACTLY*, you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book). February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.' This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash troubling facts.'

9.) *I Was Fluent In Indonesian - NOT EXACTLY*, not one teacher says you could ever speak the language.

10.) *Because I Lived In Indonesia , I Have More Foreign Experience - NOT EXACTLY*, you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and couldn't even speak the language. What did you learn except how to study the Koran and watch cartoons.

11.) *I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs - NOT EXACTLY,* except for Africa (surprise) and the Middle East (bigger surprise), yo u have never been any where else on the planet and thus have NO experience with our closest allies.

12.) *I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion - NOT EXACTLY,* you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify - your classmates said you were just fine

13.) *An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office - NOT EXACTLY,* Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

14.) *A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life - NOT EXACTLY,* Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist.

15.) *I won't run for President - NOT EXACTLY*, here you are, despite saying, live on TV, that you would not have enough experience by then, and you are all about having experience first.

16.) *Voting 'Present' is Common In Illinois Senate - NOT EXACTLY*, they are common for YOU, but not many others have 130 PRESENT or NO VOTES.

17.) *Oops, I Mis-voted - NOT EXACTLY*, only when caught by church groups and Democrats, did you beg to change your mis-vote.

18.) *I Was A Professor Of Law - NOT EXACTLY*, you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

19.)* I Was A Constitutional Lawyer - NOT EXACTLY,* you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE.

20.) *Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill - NOT EXACTLY*, you didn't write it, introduce it, change it or create it.

21.) *The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass - NOT EXACTLY,* it took just 14 days from start to finish.

22.) *I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill - NOT EXACTLY*, your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation - mainly because of your Nuclear donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came.

23.)* I Have Released My State Records - NOT EXACTLY*, as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, exposing all the special interests pork hidden within.

24.) *I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess - NOT EXACTLY*, you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens . You failed to mention anyone else but yourself, in your books.

25.) *My Economics Bill Will Help America - NOT EXACTLY*, your 111 economic policies were just combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill.

26.) *I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois - NOT EXACTLY*, even your own supporters claim to have not seen BOLD action on your part.

27.) *I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year - NOT EXACTLY*, they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you, after their creation by a fellow Senator, to assist you in a future bid for higher office.
28.) *No One on my campaign contacted Canada about NAFTA *- NOT EXACTLY, the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them.

29.)* I Am Tough On Terrorism - NOT EXACTLY*, you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction off Israel ..

30.) *I Want All Votes To Count - NOT EXACTLY*, you said let the delegates decide .

31.)* I Want Americans To Decide - NOT EXACTLY*, you prefer caucuses that limit the vote, confuse the voters, force a public vote, and only operate during small windows of time.

32.) *I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate - NOT EXACTLY*, you passed 26, most of which you didn't write yourself.

33.) *I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics - NOT EXACTLY*, you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you.

34.)* I Don't Take PAC Money - NOT EXACTLY*, you take loads of it.

35.) *I don't Have Lobbyists - NOT EXACTLY,* you have over 47 lobbyists, and counting. This number has changed since this list was created. Current numbers are anywhere between 55-75 depending on how he has them classified in helping with his campaign

36.) *My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad *- NOT EXACTLY, your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon.

37.) *I Have Always Been Against Iraq - NOT EXACTLY*, you weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time.

38.) *I Have Always Supported Universal Health Care *- NOT EXACTLY, your plan leaves us all to pay for the 15,000,000 who don't have to buy it ! 
39.) *My uncle liberated Auschwitz concentration camp - NOT EXACTLY*, your mother had no brothers and the Russian army did the liberating.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

But Ron that's rhetoric. Could you be specific? For example could you name those 900 bills that Obama didn't pass? :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: 
BigDaddy, get real on this rhetoric vs specifics. :eyeroll:


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