# Is a 243 too small



## magnum3.5

I don't think 243 is to small from what I've seem it makes a pretty big mess of things. I've shot deer, red and grey dogs with them it worked great with 60 gr. hornady as well on prairie dogs. The 100 gr spitser is more than capable for whitetail out to 400-500 yards. It's just your prefance. Go out to your local gun club on a nice summer day surely there will be shooters out talk to them. They'll offer you lots of suggestions and most will let you take a few cracks with there guns. I hope this helps.I was just wondering what other Nodaks thought in this topic in referance to what caliber. Magnum


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## GooseBuster3

300 winchester all the way, it's the all around gun for big game animals.


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## lil_lee_hunter

goosebuster, you dont have to have a 300. to kill every thing. i have once herd of a guy taking a 243 on a canadian moose hunt. i have tagged many deer with a 243. and it is a wondderful gun to hunt with. lil_lee_hunter. :sniper:


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## james s melson

The .243 is barely enough for whitetails that live anywhere in the North, it is the smallest legal rifle cartridge in MN. The people that I know who do use it are either recoil sensitive, young hunters or females.


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## GooseBuster3

lil lee, 243 is not enough for long range shots. They just dont have the knock down power of a 270 or 300. Yeah anything inside of 150 yards is just right for a 243 but anthing over that you will end up wounding and not making clean shots.
As for the moose, no way in hell. Moose have alot of muscle and bone. If he tracked it for 6 miles through the swamps and bogs I would sure feel sorry for the idiot that would use such a small caliber on that big of an animal.


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## racer66

I have been hunting with a .243 for 19 years and have only lost 1 deer, my very first year with the rifle and a poorly placed shot. I have shot deer out past the 300 yard mark a little, but past that I won't. My personal opinion is, if it is further than that, is that an ethical shot to take with any gun. I personally love my .243 and will never give it up, but a think a .300 maybe in the works. The load range is just so versital.


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## GooseBuster3

300 yards unethical??? Buddy you better go elk hunting or muledeer hunting or antelope hunting, you will be the only one not shooting at ranges of that sort. Sorry I just had to say it. :beer: :beer:


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## gandergrinder

To each his own Goosebuster. You damn know it all.


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## racer66

Been antelope hunting, shot one in 1993 with the .243 at just over 300 yards. And yes I will stand by my statement, if you start pushin 400, is it an ethical shot. I also said I am looking at a .300 but still don't know if I would risk a shot past the 400 mark.


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## racer66

Took a mule buck in 1991 in 3b1 at roughly 200. The .243 is a capable gun.


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## mallard

How many ft/lbs of energy does a .243 carry at 300-400 yards?It is recomended that 1,000 ft/lbs at point of impact is the minimum.Of course bullet type is also very critical in case you hit a shoulder blade etc.I will stick to a caliber/bullet combination that will put the animal down in a worst case scenario,a shoulder hit.


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## Travis Schmidt

The .243 is a very able gun for hunting deer in North Dakota. Both my dad and I use them and have had great success. If you place your shot properly with any deer rifle its going to take your deer down. My dad has had his Browning open sites for over 25 years and he has been very successful and has taken 90% mule deer(gratis) with his and some nice deer including a huge 5 by 5 muley.



> Buddy you better go elk hunting or muledeer hunting or antelope hunting, you will be the only one not shooting at ranges of that sort. Sorry I just had to say it.


I differ with gandergrinder's opinion on needing to take these long shots at mule deer and antelope (the gun is to small for elk in my opinion). They are both relatively easy to sneak and get a close shot at. Antelope drop easily, they are not very big. Its also a great gun for hunting tricksters

My two bits...


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## GooseBuster3

Heres the way I have always looked at it, how often do you see a throphy class muley or bull elk in a easy sneak scenario? Not to often, they usually have does or cows up wind of them a 50-100 yards ,with them sitting out in the open, thats why you have a rifle that can take those 300-500 yard shots. If you can shoot that far take the shot if not dont take it. I'll say right now that 75% of my shots have been over that 300 yard mark. When kock down power comes into play the larger calibers will drop the deer in its tracks.


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## GooseBuster3

Oh yeah if you are shooting safari grade or winchester supremes, it will lay them out flate as a pancake at those ranges, so invest in the higher grade ammo.


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## dakota_native

i have been using a .243 for over 5 years now, and i have had no problems with it. have made 250+ yard shots with it. and as for it not being big enough for moose and elk, you are wrong, i have seen people take moose with a .243 before and most shots are over 150 yards, longest ways a moose has gone after being shot, around 20 yards. it's not the gun, it the placement of the shot


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## GooseBuster3

That doesnt matter, if you brought a gun of that caliber to a guided hunt they would just laugh in your face, they tell you what caliber to use. Espically moose, alaskan guides wont even think of taking you out unless you an 300 or bigger. Im done talking about this, you gus shoot your little guns while I stick with the big guns. :beer:


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## mallard

GB3,which winchester supreme bullet type are you talking about?They have the balistic tips(I have seen these blow up on shoulder blades),fail safe(awesome bullet,to bad it wont group well out of my gun),and another great bullet,the nosler partition.All of these are found in the black winchester boxes.


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## headhunter

:eyeroll: It is not "just" shot placement for whomever said that. It is a combination of both energy transfer/expansion AND shot placement. Inside of 150 a 243 is "ok". 243 is not the best choice for ND deer hunting period. Its is one of the 'little guys' that the G/F should almost think twice about even being adequate. But how much can you ask them to regulate? Sometimes we must take it upon our self's to make the right decisions. I agree with Goosebuster3, It is probly a good caliber to get kids hunting/smaller framed/recoil sensitive types hunting, but once you grow up you should shoot a caliber more fitting for 200 plus yard shots in this open state. For those who have hunted "years upon years etc" and never wounded one, your either lying or damn lucky. If my daughter gets a 243 (sigh) to start out with , 150 yards or less, Standing broadside will be her ONLY shot. I cannot believe how many Nodakers think the 243 is such a great gun. Its barely even a "deer" rifle. a 30-06 is a "deer rifle" a 7mag is a "deer rifle" as is a 300win or even a 338. but a 243? Me and my dad both shot at a large running buck INSIDE of 150 yards with a 30-06. Hit him 5 times. FIVE times. 4 good hits and 1 gut hit. He went another 200plus yards before finally dying. If We would have been shooting a pip squeak rifle he'd still be running for the hills. Proper preperation prevents poor performance. I hunt with a 7mag now and it is not even CLOSE to being to "big". You must shoot a gun that will 'help' correct mistakes that happen to EVERY deer hunter. My god a 22 rimfire will kill a deer too right? so will a rock if its big enough. jeez, my goat has been got.


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## fishhook

I shoot a .243 and NO i am not a young kid nor a lady. I bought it at the time because i was just getting started hunting and it was a very nice used gun remington model 700. I have shot many deer with it. This year in fact i shot a 5x5 18 inches wide from about 325 yds is what we estimated. Granted i believe a .270 is probably the best overall deer hunting rifle one can own, but don't be saying a .243 is too small. I have seen people hit deer with a 30-06 that run for miles. It all depends...a damn lung shot and those things can go for 4-5 miles before taking a break....you never know. Don't belittle people because they shoot a .243. It's a perfectly legal plus a very widely used rifle. Those of you that don't use one nor have never used one aren't titled to an opinion in this matter....how would you know? Probably 95% of the time it depends more on the person hunting than the rifle they are shooting.


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## GooseBuster3

Matter of fact I shot my first deer with a 243, and will never go back. Thats why I moved to a bigger when I was 15. These guys that have a brush gun and a medium range rifle for deer hunting are morons. Why not shot one rifle and be done with it. I look at it this way why need differnt for gun for elk, moose, sheep, deer, caribou? Like I said why be marginale on the knock down power when you know you can take'em with one shot. As for lung shots and deer running long distances?? It wont happen with a 300 loaded with winchester supreme balistic tips. the bullet will rip them apart once when it hits the deer. Tell you guys the truth a 338 isnt over kill either, all this unethical BS about how far you can shoot your gun all depends on the person that is shooting the gun. For me a 350-500 yard shot is nothing, just go out anf hunt some western biggame and you will see why.


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## fishhook

I'll tell you why some use brush guns. Some people actually hunt in trees!! My brother in law for instance shoots a 30-30. He shot a 7x7 this year that scored 168 by the taxidermest. Why not use those big almost slugs if you are shooting short distances. They aren't as fast as a 243 or 270, but rifles along with woman, comes down to personal preferance. Not everyone is going to have the same opinion.

I could care less what other people shoot. I shoot a 243. I have been considering going to a 270, but that is only because i may give my 243 to my son when he gets older and just in case i snag a moose license one of these years it would be a nice rifle to have. Don't come back and say a 270 isn't big enough for moose either. Watched my cousin dump one with one shot at about 250 yrds. A bull too.

It's obvious some of you hate the .243, and your intitled to your opinion. But I can tell you this...i wouldn't want to be shot with it at 250-300 yrds or even more...would you?


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## GooseBuster3

You think what ever you want I'll think what ever I want to. As from the Eastmens hunting journal, the only way to take trophy western big game aninamals is fair chase. :sniper:


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## fishhook

blah blah blah....i'm done...you really need to grow up and accept other opinions.


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## GooseBuster3

Headhunters :beer: :beer: post hit it right on the nuts!!


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## huntnfish

GB3, if I could buy you for what you're worth and sell you for what you thought you were worth I wouldn't have to go to work anymore.


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## headhunter

Your right, I will accept your opinion, but is a 243 too small of a gun to hunt deer with in ALL circumstances in ND? Absolutely yes. Is a 270 big enough to go on a moose hunt? Abolutely not. Take enough gun or more than you need or stay home.


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## muskat

Even though I hunt with a larger caliber rifle, your comment(headhunter) about taking more than enough rifle or stay home make me uke: . What about the guy who hunts with a hand-me-down rifle that just happens to be a .243 (ie my uncle). Your telling me he shouldnt hunt because he doesnt meet your standards? :eyeroll:


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## Bigdog

My brother and I both started hunting deer with .243's. He never had any trouble with killing deer, never lost one. He switched around to a couple different calibers for fun and now shoots a .308. I never had any trouble with the .243 when I got the bullet in the heart/lung area. However, one time I hit the shoulder blade and the bullet exited out the front of the deer, about even with the neck (100 gr Win sp). This left very little blood and after a day of tracking we had not found the deer. Got her 2 days later, had only gone about 60 yards further but the meat had spoiled. I figured a larger bullet would have pentrated better so I switched to a .270 with partition bullets. The .243 works but you have to be careful with the range and the shot.


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## GooseBuster3

Huntnfish you think what you want to think I really dontr care what everbody else thinks of my opinions, cause from your stand point I thini you have no clue what you are talking about. Like I said try western big game hunting and you will have a completly different view from like what I have said in the last 5 post, maybe you should read????


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## mallard

It is surprising that hardley anyone mentions bullet selection along with the caliber for deer hunting.I used sierra game kings with my 7mm rem this year and after chasing a wounded deer that was shot in the shoulder I am blaming the bullet and not the caliber.I am done with the flat flying,lightly jacketed bullets and going strictly with the controled expansion bullets(speer grand slam,barnes-X,nosler partition,trophy bonded bear claw)there are a lot to choose from.Another one I would like to hear more about is the schirocco (sp?).This has the plastic tip like the balistic tip,and also has a heavier jacket and bonded core for controled expansion.


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## racer66

Reason for big guns, piss poor shot placement. Lost one deer in close to 20 years of shooting .243, no I wouldn't take the damn thing elk or moose hunting, but it is an effective whitetail gun. Everybody thinks they have to have this freakin cannon to knock down a whitetail, it's not so, I'm not saying the bigger guns don't have greater knock down,but I am saying the .243 will do the job. As far as going out west and hunting elk and mule deer, I wouldn'take it. You guys taking these 500 yard shots on elk and mule deer ought to be slapped. I can't believe the guide or outfitter would let you do it with any gun. Do you actually realize that 500 yards is damn close to 3.4 tenths of a mile. If a shot is made at that kind of yardage it's a damn hope in hell you hit the animal.


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## mallard

By the way that deer I chased and eventually found was shot at 50 yards and the bullet blew up on the shoulder blade.Mistakes on shot placement happen,I just want to make sure that if I end up hitting the shoulder again,the bullet is going through it.


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## huntnfish

GB3, I have a .243, a 30-06, and a .300 Ultra Mag. I have shot deer with the .243 out to 318 yards. The deer ran about 40 yards before it fell. I have never lost one that I have shot with it. I have shot a couple of deer with the .300, but didn't like all the damage that it did. I feel the most comfortable with the .243 so that it what I choose most of the time. If you feel the most comfortable with your .300 then that is what you should use. Don't try and tell someone that they are dumb to use a .243. The kind of gun and caliber mean nothing if you can't hit what you're aiming at.


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## zogman

Headhunter is absolutly correct about the 243. It is TOO SMALL most of the time. I have loaded centerfire for over 40 years. Spent hundreds of hours with loading manuals and ballistic tables. You got to know your cartridge. 243 100gr bullets 150yard deer rifle.


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## tsodak

Sorry, Ihave to chime in on this one.

First of all,you can indeed kill lots of whitetails with a .22 caliber rifle. It's illegal. why? Because it requires a level of expertise and self control that is extremely difficult to gain in a large group of hunters.

I grew up shooting a 30/06. Great deer guns. I did not like truning my coyotes into lumps of bloody fur, so this year I got my dream gun, 25/06. I was not willing to go down to a .243, as I have personally seen to many deer injured by a combination of poor shot placement/bullet selection. Give yourself some extra edge for WHEN you screw up.

Incidentally, assendoverteakettled a doe this year from 185 paces. Have not done that since the fall of 94 when I did it witha .44 handgun from 15 step. That was fun too.

Also, for all of you that say you have not had a deer travel wounded in 20 years, congradulations. I dont know of a single, really goood hunter that would be willing to say the same. You must really be experts. I practice and practice, and yet not everything I shoot drops immediatley. Even with good shot placement. Since moving to ND I have noticed a disturbing trend mentioned to me by 2 other newcomers without any prompting. That is the tendency to shoot at deer and then walk away without ever going to check and see if you even hit it. If it does not drop at the shot, I must have missed. I hope that is not the reason you have never had one you hit go more than five steps.

Incidentaly, I found 5 dead bedded deer this fall with bullet wounds. I believe all of these deer were shot with killing shots but not trailed to the ultimate place of death. I found all of these while pheasant hunting.

Finally, I once read something I think by Jim Carmichal that has always stuck with me. He was talking elk guns and said a .270 is a great elk gun. You just have to be willing to pass up those going away shots on elk that never presented broadside. That is fine if you are a local and can hunt all season, but if you have to kill that elk when you see it, including a Rear end Texas heart shot, you better be packin a .338 or .375 with a bullet that will drive all the way through a hindquarter and still have energy level in the chest to put that elk on the ground.

That logic has always stuck with me. Maybe someone else remembers that.


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## Plainsman

Wow, lots of opinions out there. When I was young and had no other rifle I shot deer with a 22 hornet. Close shots, standing, behind the shoulder. When my father purchased a .308 I barrowed his 223-250 and shot many deer. Then I purchased my first deer rifle a .243. Then a 270, then a 300 winchester mag, then a new 300WSM, and now a .308. I will use the heavy barrel 300 mag most of the time, but that's my choice and I certainly will not fault anyone for using something smaller. I think that old .243 was a capable rifle. People think if you don't do it like them it isn't ethicle. Some people think you shouldn't shoot 500 yards. Well, I better not tell you how far I shoot. After archery and blackpowder you have to do something to make rifle hunting interesting again. Look on longerangehunter.com, these guys shoot to 1000 and 2000 yards. A couple of fellows shoot beyond a 100 yards with a handgun. Very capable rifles and very capable shooters and 500 yards is a gimmee. When reading about long shots, and small rifles I normaly assume these are people who know what they are doing and are careful with shot placement. Talk about devide and concoure, I think the antis will get us if we don't stick together a little better. Oh, I forgot to mention 44 mag, 45/70 etc. etc. I try to shoot a different rifle, different bullet, different scope, something to keep it interesting. Extra doe tags = test medium.


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## Plainsman

Oh, Oh, lots of typos at this time of night. Make that a 22-250 and beyond a 1000 yards with a handgun not 100 yards.


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## lil_lee_hunter

goosebuster. i shot my first deer at 250 with a 243. and im not a light caliber freak i hunt with a 308 and i find it quite satisfactory for long and short shots alike. i have killed many deer with both calibers. and i think that either caliber works just fine. and it is a great gun for kids.


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## Plainsman

Good Evening lil_lee_hunter

People have different experiences. It's no doubt people who like larger calibers have had bad experience with them or seen things they don't like. I keep gravitating to my 300 mag, but I know other guns are fine for deer. I was in Montana this fall, up on the mountain waiting at the top of a long draw. Three miles away they pushed out about 40 head of elk. Twelve year old kids out there can get a cow license. By the time the herd mad it to me kids had taken 16 cows with .243. One small bull stopped 50 yards in front of me, but I didn't have the heart to shoot him, and he didn't have the heart to run. Anyway I wouldn't advocate the use of a .243 for elk, but after seeing what these kids did it is evident that it is enough for deer. The remaining elk stopped at 150 yards and held for about three, four minutes. I glassed them well expecting wounded but seen none. Then someone shot the rear leg nearly off a calf and didn't follow it up. They had plentyof time for a follow up shot and didn't do that either. Can't understand what was going on. Perhaps it run from their view. I could not find them to talk with them either. To bad. Good hunting, and shoot what you shoot well.


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## lil_lee_hunter

i fully agree plainsman a 243 is not enough gun for elk if you want a good clean kill. but game are taken with many guns. and until next time hunt safe hunt ethically and keepem in the ten ring

tyler


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## varmiterkid

wow what a topic, i have shot deer with a 243 yet i perfer a biger cal. i like the 270 and the 30-06. yes yes yes u can kill deer with a 243 u can kill and elk but as goosebuster said i would like to have a biger cal if i was going to treck though all that land i wanna knock it down not wound it.

if u hit a elk, or even a deer back a lttle with the little 243 it might go aways yet with a 270 or 300 7mm that elk isn't going far if newhere


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## headhunter

Varmiterkid, I have a friend who hit a Elk at 300 yards with a 7mag (in the boiler room) and that Elk ran hundereds and hundereds of yards on him. A 7mag is on the bottom end of the totem pole for Elk. A 270 isn't even a player in the Elk woods. I have a 7mag and When I do draw an Elk tag I will be leaving the 7 at home and buying a 300 ultra or 338 with a muzzle break. a 300 yard ++ is what you should expect when going Elk hunting so bring a gun that has some knockdown.


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## varmiterkid

Varmiterkid, I have a friend who hit a Elk at 300 yards with a 7mag (in the boiler room) and that Elk ran hundereds and hundereds of yards on him. A 7mag is on the bottom end of the totem pole for Elk. A 270 isn't even a player in the Elk woods.

well sorry i disagree, the 7mm mag holds 2,000 foot ponds of energy at 400 yards and elk should have 1,500. this means it will kill elk beyond the 400 yard mark if u know how to shoot it. i would say the 7mm mag is a great elk gun as matter of fact

now i don't know about the 300 ultra or the 338 much yet i would liike to compare the three. again the 270 holds 1500 foot pounds at 350 yards, so i dont know if ur shooting elk in the next state yet thought u might want to look at this. i would never shoot past 400 yards most shots i have heard of are within 300 yards maybe a little diff. where u hunt or how u hunt but i don't think the 338 will shoot to much father then the 7mm mag yet i don't know its balistic's


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## huntin1

The first deer that I killed with a rifle was shot with a 243, a borrowed savage 99. I decided that I needed to get my own rifle and after doing a lot of research decided on 30 cal. my first was a 308, then a 300WM cause I wanted to go elk hunting. Several years ago I had surgery to my right shoulder and can no longer handle the recoil of the 300WM so I am back to a 308 in a heavy barrel and my 300WM is wasting away in my gun safe, a sub MOA rifle that gets no use.  
The bottom line here is that a 243 is capable for deer but as you move up in caliber you have more cababilities that the smaller calibers just can't match. I will not condem anyone for their choice of rifle, hell I've hunted with the plainsman for over 20 years and have seen him take many deer with the 22-250. Shoot whatever caliber you want but PRACTICE with it. There are way to many guys in this state that go out a hour before season starts, fire a couple rounds at a rock out in the field and think that they are ready to hunt. Sometimes they get a deer sometimes they don't but the rifle is not touched again until the next season. Shoot often, know your capabilities as well as those of your rifle.

huntin1 :beer:


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## headhunter

Varmint, Yes a 338 has just a "bit" more energy than a 7mag. It is King on big game. A 7 doesn't carry enough downrange punch to be lobbing iffy shots at 400+ yards (Which may happen in Elk country) Look at the charts on a 300 ultra or 338. They are what an Elk rifle should be. A 7 is an OK Elk rifle. I would take my 7 Elk hunting. I would NOT, feel I had a great Elk gun though, and I would definately limit my shots to inside 300 if possible. (And who wants to do that when they finally get an Elk tag???)


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## Little man 15

ok guys i think almost everybody here has lost the real point in deer hunting!!! the point is not to go out and shoot a deer with a cannon and have him fall two steps away-that is just un-ethical! Ive seen deer just blown to hell, where is the sport in that. i think everyone has there own opinion but i personally am a fan of the .243. i think a rifle that can harvest an elk un-clean can surely harvest a deer clean. thats part of the sport waiting for a clean shot AND making it AND tracking the animal. not blow a bullet through the hind-quarters and watch it fall.
you can do that if you want i just dont think that is right.


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## 870 XPRS

Little man 15 said:


> the point is not to go out and shoot a deer with a cannon and have him fall two steps away-that is just un-ethical!


Not sure i really understand your justification here. How does having the animal fall two steps from where it shot fall into an unethical category. Isn't the most ethical thing to have a shot that kills the animal in the shortest amount of time to reduce suffering ethical. I agree a .243 is a sufficient gun for hunting deer, but i don't quite understand your un-ethical statement. Explain please.


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## headhunter

Little man 15. Don't understand the logic either. My whole objective in "hunting" is to shoot something in one shot....and blow the "hell" out of it.

Remember, there is no such thing as 'too dead'. If you shoot a 7 mag with 140 NP or 165 NP's you will not blow the hell out of it. What a misconception. But , if you shoot a 243 and take a "half *** shot" (which of course nobody ever does) you may unblow the hell out of it and wound your deer. Is the 243 too small? not if your inside 200 and the deer is broadside. Its Kin to a 22-250. It will work. Just not the best choice with all the other calibers out there.

My idea of hunting is find the animal you want, get close, and absolutely, by all means, blow the hell out of it.


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## Little man 15

Ya i see what your saying with wounding an animal but thats part of the fun waiting for a broadside  and a skilled marksman can still harvest a deer with a .243. Also i think that would get kinda boring not even having to track your animal but 100 yards but thats just me, if you wanna "blow the hell" outa it with a 7mm thats fine but ill just stick with my .243 and what i mean about unethical is your not even giving the deer a chance. with a smaller caliber you give it a chance because you might not always get a braodside and you will have to let a big buck go and try again some other day but i think that is the beauty of deer hunting.


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## teddyR

OK, I see that most of you guys love cannons. Which is ok if you can handle them. Also I see some people hunting Moose and Elk with a 243. THATS SICK. I'm a strong believer match the cal. to the game you are hunting. If you can afford to go on a exotic hunt but can afford the proper gun stay home and hunt in your own backyard. Anyone hunting Mule deer or larger with a 243 should not be in the field. Lets be real. I don't care how good you are your not doing the animal justice. I am a fan of the 243 for Whitetail deer. Its a fine gun and fun to shoot. With the new technology in bullet design the 243 is more than ok. A company is even looking into a titanium splinter incert for better expansion(not a cheep bullet). I have a nice collection of guns, 31 at last count. while the 243 is not my favorite it is a great gun. So if your looking to buy one, maybe for your son or daughter go ahead you won't go wrong... 
I also see some of you guys love to hunt deer with 338's. WHY? And please don't say its the best all around cal. No such thing. Again match the cal. to the game your hunting. Don't say knockdown power and speed at 500yds. That sounds like your shooting from the back of a pickup truck on a dirt road. I've hunted out west pronghorn, Muly, etc. 90% of hunting is tracking and walking. It may take days to get close but thats what a hunt is about. Not just pulling a trigger on a cannon. The 338 is great on moose, elk. Alaska bear, etc. but not on whitetail. 
The reason I replyed in this forum is that I enjoy hunting and have enjoyed reading your posts. I also think your a great bunch of guys who enjoy the same as me. I'm not picking on anyone just talking out freely.
Yours Truly,,,, Been there done that[/u]


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## Little man 15

I think that was a great way to put it :beer:


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## headhunter

Putting the right bullets down the barrel of a 338 makes it a fine rifle for Whiteails. Nothing wrong with that. Too big ALWAYS beats "not quite big enough" or whatever you want to call it. I don't feels the need to hunt Whitetails with anything bigger than a 300win, but if you can handle the recoil and shoot long range, a 338 would be the unit of choice. Great for 400+ yard sharpshooters. (not me) Teddy, it also depends on where you hunt, A 7mag is a pretty common deer rifle for MT and ND . The 243 limits your shots in this country if you care about wounded animals.


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## GooseBuster3

Plus when you hunt grizzly country you want a gun that will stop a sow bear in her tracks. I would like to see a guy bring a 243 up into Hell's roaring canyon in Mont.......you would get a good old kiss from a bear.


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## teddyR

I do agree that hunting is different in all parts of the country. I'm from South Carolina(by way of NY) the deer are small and the only thing you have to worry about is snakes and there is a lot of them in the low country. The 243 is, if not the most common cal. Even more so than the 30-30. I also hunt in the mtns. of Pa. The 243 is not as popular there however I never had a problem. I must say that all my shots are under 300yds. Thats my choice.
I also see that most all are from ND. You know better whats best in your backyard. Now that I'm 50 yrs. old I only hunt SC & Pa. But there was a time when I was younger and the world was at my feet. AH to be 30 again, it was a great time....... I'm not an expert but I have been around the block a little. I have hunted in MT and even had a part ownership in a ranch just outside Glacier National Park. I remember that I hunted with my 35 whelen 180gr. wildcat. In my opinion a great cal. for MT. You just have to load your own. My partner used a 7mm mag.. Now if you do come on to a grizzly or should I say he comes up on you. Yes then you have the perfict gun in your hand 338. I only hope that never happens to you. To have yourself in a position where you have to shoot a bear on a deer hunt is not good. I've hunted bear on Kodak Island in Alaska. my gun was a 378 wby mag. way way to much gun. I thought that the 378 was great on Cape Buff. & Bull Elephant it would be great on Kodak Bear I was wrong. I wish I had taked my 338. Which by the way is the most popular gun in Alaska. I never saw a 243 there. I think you need a 30-06 just to shoot the rats there...... In any case In the Southeast and parts of the Northeast the 243 is a fine gun for whitetail. My friend even bagged a beautiful big buck in Texas with a 243...... Its been a pleasure talking to you guys......... TR[/list]


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## Militant_Tiger

well frankly i think you are all wrong. i refuse to shoot an animal of any size with anything less than a incendiary .50 cal round. you just have to be sure.


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## Little man 15

you have to be kidding me, how do you pick up all the little pieces there wouldnt be any animal left


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## Austin Bachmeier

Sarcasm Little One....


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## Little man 15

i knew that :wink:


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## huntinSD

For those of you that like the thrill of the hunt and tracking your kill...

Do you also enjoy dragging your kill a through thickets and over hills? Just curious... for me, I'd rather have enough gun to stop it dead in it's tracks. The animal doesn't suffer and I don't have to have a heart attack dragging whatever it may be any farther than I have to...


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## Keith Tobberman

LISTEN!!!! Let me settle this one, alright I do not even hunt big game but I know enough to say that a gun doesnt take the kill. It is the shooter. I can kill a friggen moose with a .22 LR. Doesnt mean it is smart but it all depends on the shooter and where he hits the animal. I think a .243 is very capable of whitetail out in the open. In brush you will suffer from having a light weight bullet. Each one of you made a good argument but im sorry to say that it really does all depend on where you are shooting the animal. And for distances, its not the gun its the shooter. If you have a 300 Weatherby mag and you HIT an animal at 400 yards, it will most likely die. In long shots it all about aim.


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## Ranger_Compact

I've always used a .243, I've dropped every deer I've shot it with. I think it's a nice rifle, and have had no problems with it myself.


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## confusedsoul

I don't know, but I have shot deer with a .222 in South Dakota. None of which are over probably 150-200 yards. Never lost one of them. Other than that, the biggest I've used is a 25-06. Anything bigger under 300 yards isn't particularly necessary for whitetail. The .222 I shot belongs to my grandfather and while it may be considered by most of you as 'too small', it has shot way more deer in its lifetime (by my Grandfather, my dad, and his 4 brothers) than I'll probably shoot in mine. For mule deer, I would think a 25-06 is enough. Depending upon the range however.


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## Niodyne

No wonder why this sport is going down hill quick smart!!
First of all, some of you guys, grow-up!! some comments are just unrelated, unnecessary and damn stupid. Your comments are only going to be respected, when you learn to respect someone elses opinions.

I also would like to get some evidence of the accuracy (trufhfulness) of those 300, 400, 500 yards +++. 95% of shooters have no idea of correct distance measurements, and has been proved, their estimations are wrong, and allways further never shortun, double in most occasions, just to impress and be ahead of those around.

Don't compare distances with those practised in target shooting. Do you see long distance target shooters, hunting with those same guns? match the controlled environment and range conditions? do you have the same time (10 minutes, sometimes) to stabilize before you fire?

Not everyone is a fool, indeed, very childish of those playing the game *" Mine is bigger than your's!!!".*

You are welcome to share your opinion, without been rude and disrespectfull. You will get back, what you give !!!


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## Turner

Wow, lots of opinions out there. I have shot many deer with a .243, I have used 95 grain bullistic tips, 100 grain nosler (passed right through) at about 200yrds + -. But the most efective round I have found is just the plain o'l 100 grain soft nose. I have only had one pass through and that was under 150 yrds. I know a few people in Mt and Canada that hunt Moose and Elk with a .243, not sure that I would do it, but they have been very sucessful. Those of you who say that the .243 is not a big enough calibur for deer, you are dead wrong. Every deer I have shot with a .243 died and was recovered, at what point in time in that deers death, did that wepon fail me.

-GB3 I think you have calibur envy  (you trying to make up for something)

-Those of you who only think lager calibur rifles are the only way to go, I think you are tryin to make up for your inability to shot accurately. You may shoot AT deer, but I shoot deer.

-Every one needs to shoot, shoot, practice, practice....truthfully, how many of you shoot in the off season. How many of you take your rifle out a day or two before the season and see if you can hit a 5 gallon pail at 50yrds and call it good. Those are the guys that scare me.


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## Niodyne

You shouldn't be scared about those guys Tony, remember they are the ones that shoot at 400, 500 ++ yards !!!!, no problem... 
I just wish that I could put some of those "sharp shooters" at the rifle range, with a measureing tape, a target set at 400 meters, their hunting rifles a camcord video recorder and lots and lots of people watching... that I would like to see !!!!

Now, the "hat" only fits on the right "heads", and that is that.

The next time you're "sharp shooters" have a chance, do this for me. Grab a measureing tape, lets say... an 1xgallon can (5 litres approx), full of water, a couple of feet of rope or wire, your special rifle and 3 rounds. Now go to a place were shooting isn't a problem, and with some trees, get your *** out of the vehicle with the tape and measure 400 meters. Look for a tree at that distance point and hang that 1xgallon canon it, around 4 to 5 feet from the ground.
Now, go back to the starting point (vehicle), grab your *EMPTY*rifle and look trough the scope and find the can. *Make sure the area is safe and nothing is behind of that target, (people, stock, roads, houses,.etc etc)*. After you'r sure is ok, load the rifle with the 3 rounds and fire at it, *as you do when you're hunting.*. No cheating!!!
Come back to this post, and talk to me.

Thank you.


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## mr.trooper

> These guys that have a brush gun and a medium range rifle for deer hunting are morons. Why not shot one rifle and be done with it.


Buster, that is perhaps the dumbest thing I'v ever heard.

Just try using your 32" bolt action 300 magnum while walking thick cover. Let me know how it turns out.

As stated earlyer, some hunting grounds actualy have vegetation, so you can't just sit at the top of an outcroping and pop off deer at 600 yards.

What happens when your bullet catches wind and drifts into a gut shot? What are you guna do whan your game runs off into the brush? May as well just give up, cuz you don't have a gun to deal with that. 
uke: 
Time to quiet down and stop yammering on things you know nothing about.


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## tikka_shooter

Some people have the lack of money to be able to buy the caliber that you consider adequate. The only guns they may have are the ones given to them. These are the people that I respect in the field, are the ones who take what they get, and practice, and become a proficient shot. They are the ones that make sure every single shot counts, and most of the time, those are the ones who never lose deer. How many of you who have been bashing the .243 as a deer caliber have ever used one on deer. If you have and it hasn't been good for you and you've put a shot right in the vitals where it should be and it let you down, then, your opinion will be taken as credible evidence. And to say that having a brush gun is stupid, that statement is very narrowminded. I have been to North Dakota, and I have seen how flat everything is, and most of what I saw looked like it would produce out-in-the-open shots. So you have no need for a brush gun, but for us boys down south, who hunt the swamp lands, and the briar patches, and the thick stuff, having a scoped(in some situations) long heavy barreled, rifle, is quite pointless. The farthest shot I have ever had on a deer was 80 yards, and I'm still trying to think up excuses on why I missed. In my 7 years of deer hunting, I have passed up on countless does, and have yet to find the buck I'm wanting. Now I'm getting off track. But most shots in the brush down here aren't anywhere outside of 50 yards. I have to say the four most used calibers down here are the 30/06, 30/30, 270, and the 243. I know one guy, very well, who does some things I don't understand. He lives at the end of a logging trail, and is what most of you consider a mountain man. He has one rifle, and that is a Ruger M77 MKII .243 Win. He kills deer year round(and I'm not promoting this in any way at all, just using this for evidence) He usually kills over 75 deer each year, and all of them with that 243. Last year he lost two deer. Some of you may say,"Well he lost two deer in one year." 75 deer is more than a lot of you have ever shot at. What my point is, is to not bash a gun and say it has no use for a species, unless you have first hand experience with it. It has to do with shot placement more than anything else.


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## farmerj

huntin1 and niodyne hit on something that no one else is even coming close to admitting is important.

How well do you know EXACTLY where your gun is going to hit at 300?, 400? or even 500 yards? Do you practice at these ranges regularly?

Anyone here who claims they make regular 4-500 yard shots and take deer while standing deserve to have BS called.

I have made one shot over 400 yds with a .308 to take a deer, and only one shot. I also spent about 8 weeks and well over 4000 rounds on the range shooting that year. I have also been blessed enough to have attended a couple of army marksmanship courses to know I won't make shots like this with out having practiced or have some kind of data book or table to know what my gun will do. And I also know it is a hail mary shot to do while standing at anything over 350 yards.

Shoot your magnums all you want, but also share with us how much you actually practice. It's why I shoot a .243, .308 and .30/06. They do what I want out to 600-700 yards when I do my part and practice.


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## Niodyne

I agree, been realistic beats-up exageration, any time. 
This is what a .243 can do, and where the bullet will go, if some simple rules are followed.
Is this good enough? You judge it !!!!!

*I am willing to provide a similar test of your preferred rifle, for the first 5 (five) people that are interested, free of charge. * You will need to provide the following information;

Caliber:___________
Bullet size:__________gr
Muzzle velocity:____________fps
Altitute:____________ ft
Temperature:_____________° F
Humidity:____________%
Atmos. Pressure:______________ in HG
Wind speed:______________ mph ( remember, is allways some wind)
Wind direction:____________ O'clock

At what distance do you sight (zeroed) this gun?:_____________ yards
End range will be set at 700 yards for all tests. This is to attempt to cover flat country and possible bullet impact point on practise and missed shots.

[siteimg]2853[/siteimg]


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## Kiwi98j

OK I'll bite.

This is my 600 yd match load used this Spring at Tulsa

Caliber: 6.5-284
Bullet size: 142 gr SMK .595BC 
Muzzle velocity: 2970 fps 
Altitute: 1,360 ft 
Temperature: 72 ° F 
Humidity: 62 % 
Atmos. Pressure: 30.12 in HG 
Wind speed: 15 mph 
Wind direction: 10 'clock

At what distance do you sight (zeroed) this gun?: 250 yards.

I sure got a lot of chuckles from some of the posts on this thread. I can't tell you how many times I've invited those that claim to have made 500 yard killing shots with their pet hunting rifles out to my 600 yd range to demonstrate their proficiency off my concrete benchrest. Never heard of so many problems with bad ammo, scopes that lost their zero, mirage on a cool day, mumbled excuses and alibis.


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## Niodyne

You welcome kiwi98j.
Interesting set up, a 7mm 284 winchester, necked down to a 6.5mm.
By the way, your ballistic coefficient is 1.0035

Your last paragraph sounds extremely familiar!!!!
The results of tests for your requested caliber are as follow;

*Note:* The program used, is making the recomendation that the ideal or best zeroing distance in your case would be 279 yards, against your 250 yards. Looking at the tests 1 http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/album_thumbnail.php?pic_id=2857and test 3http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/album_thumbnail.php?pic_id=2859 I can see why.

[siteimg]2858[/siteimg]


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## Kiwi98j

Thanks Niodyne

Your ballistics calculator is very close to my field "dope". I'm using 55" of come up at 600 yds off the 250 zero. I slapped this one togeher off a Savage 112 long action, modified BV stock, SSS comp trigger, 27" 1-8 Lothar Walther barrel, Tasco custom shop 24x in Burris 20moa rings.

On a good day, only 1 cup of coffee and my wife away for the weekend and my boss on vaction, I can put all 5 in the 10 ring.


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## Keith Tobberman

Many of you wonder how you know where your bullit is going to be at 400 yards. Just check any ballist ics table. It will give you the trajectory of a bullet at 2-3-4-500 yards if the gun is sighted in at 100 yards. This is the easiest way to do it if you dont have a good place to target shoot that far.


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## huntin1

Wow, I just 'love' all these holier-than-thou opinions about long range shooting. What gives you the right to say that 400-500 yards shots cannot be made?

From a simple question about the effectiveness of the 243, you guys have morphed this thread into a diatribe against long range shooting.

Anytime I shoot over 300 yards I do so from the prone position, with a bipod. I don't estimate yardage, my Leica laser range finder tells me exactly how far my target is. I also don't guess the holdover needed, it is dialed in with the target turrets. The comeups that are dialed in are based on thousands of rounds sent downrange at ranges out to 1000 yards. The ammo that I use is either factory match ammo, (Black Hills) or my own reloads. I go through 100-200 rounds of 308 ammo each and every month. At these ranges deer often don't even know you are there so taking 10 minutes to set up the shot is not a problem, sometimes even longer times are possible because the deer is calm. Shots are taken at deer that are standing still. I tell you what guys, I have seen far more deer wounded by the "traditional" method of hunting here in ND, walking them up and shooting at them as they run away, which in most cases ends up with a deer shot in the hindquarters, so if it is recovered most of the meat is destroyed. Yeah, that's more ethical than shooting a deer through the chest cavity at 500 yards and being able to use all of the meat. :eyeroll:

Niodyne,

A 1 gallon can at 400 doesn't sound like too much trouble, my swinging metal target is a 6" diameter circle, we regularily thump that at 600 yards. Anytime you would like a demonstration let me know, but you'll have to come to me, I won't travel to prove my point, don't feel the need to.

Just because you can't, doesn't mean there isn't someone who can. 

You guys are right about a few things though, you must know your yardage, the ballistics of the load you are shooting, the way that it performs in your rifle, how to read wind not just where you are shooting from, but over the entire distance of the shot. In other words, you have to practice, ALOT.

And perhaps most important, you have to have the patience to wait for the perfect shot, and the willingness to pass if it does not appear.

:beer:

huntin1


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## farmerj

Huntin1,
Hold your horses a little bit. I am agreeing with you. If you take the time, get the dope on your rifle and how the wind and weather affect you, a shot like you are talking about is entirely just another lazy day out on the range.

I know I have done it. As have you and I know Plainsman has done it for you a dozen times or better. And yes, Plainsman and I have met. We think very much alike on LR shooting.

Either of the .30 cals I own are more than capable of a 500 yds shot on a deer.

Even my .243 is capable of a deer out to 400. But I had best make sure that everything is right to take that shot also.I shoot a .243 because I can load up to a 100 gr for deer or I can go as low as a 58 gr that is fast approaching a .22-250 is performance.

The ones that get me are the ones that claim the only thing to shoot is a 300 or 338 Mag and anything less is unable to do the job. Only to find out that they might shoot 12 rounds a year.


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## huntin1

Not pointed at you farmerj, sorry if it looked that way. Plainsman has mentioned you a few times. Wasn't pointed at anyone who is like minded or who will admit that there are perhaps people who can shoot better than they do, I know of several who can outshoot me any day of the week. I just get tired of the small-minded people who have the attitude that if they can't do it nobody can.

huntin1


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## ND decoy

I am really enjoying this thread. I like to buy a differn't deer rifle about every year. First thing I truely believe is that shots are made and missed because of confidense or the lack of. The best way to gain cionfidense is to go out punch paper. We started shooting one day just as a what would happen situation. We ended up going out to 700 yards. It was very interesting. We didn't know much to start with. Trying to shoot a target at 500 yards with a gun that is sighted in at 100 yards is not that easy. Trying to figure how much drop there will be took us forever to figure out. We were really young at the time and didn't realize that we should have been changing the scoop instead of trying to figure out how much to hold the scope over the target. I have had fun over the years doing some long range paper punching. We have done this with really sold rests which is not that hard when you finially get it figured out. But trying to do off hand is a whole differn't thing. Just trying to hold the target in the scope is enough of a challenge. I still don't consider myself a good long range shot but I still am trying and hopefully I'll get there one day. Extra doe tags in my opinion are one of the best real hunting tests that I have found.

As far as rifles go. Again I go back to confidense. If you are confident in a .243 stay with it. I believe if you haven't tryed shooting at paper at 400 yards you probably shouldn't be trying to shoot a deer at that range. One of the first deer I shot was with a .243 I hit her right in the chest and lost her. To this day I still don't know what happend. It was only about a 150 yard shot and she went into a slough. I looked forever for that deer and even went and got a dog, we lost the blood trail and never saw another sign of her again.

I have owned at one time or another just about all of the popular calibers and have got it down to my favorite three for west big game animals. By the way I like magnums. My small gun is a .257 weatherby mag., very fast and very flat. I think this gun is very good long range gun with good punch. Great gun for antelope, whitetails and mule deer. My next one is and my all time favorite is the 7mm rem. mag. A great gun for any thing that I hunt. Flat and fast with a lot of punch and not much recoil. Some thing about this caliber has always clicked for me. I took my first elk with this gun, a big cow at 390 yards. It didn't drop her in her tracks and it took me two shots but she didn't go more than 50 yards. The first shot would have killed her but she was still on her feet so I decided to make sure. The last one is my bruiser a 7mm STW mag. this caliber was starting to catch on until they started to come out with the ultramags. For those that don't know what this gun is it's basically a .375 cartridge that has been necked down for a 7mm (.284) bullet. This one is a banger very fast and very flat. I have used this one for both whitetail and mule deer but mostly I have it elk. I feel very comfortable shooting this one at long ranges.

One things for sure when you take about rifles and deer hunting people will have strong opinions and they will stand by them. I like reading posts like this so I can get an idea on my next gun purchase.


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## Niodyne

Huntin 1
Sorry to inform you, but you got *ME* all wrong!!!
Shooting long range has been my passion since a kid, I know what it takes, and how much practise and self discipline is necessary to become efficient. I shoot from all possible distances and I haven't got any problem with those that do the same, but if I got the choice, I will go as far as I can. What "sets me off" is reading comments , from people (as I did is this thread), that have and show, not to have any experience or knowledge about the subject. You really got what I've said all distorted, for unknown reasons. If you read what I've said, based on what I was commenting on, you will realise that I never insinuated that you couln'd either shoot over 300 yards or, hit accurately what you aimed at long distances. 1xgallon can, sounds very fair at 400 yards for those "sharpidiots" that I was reffering too. 6" at 600 yards is very possible, I never said it isn't (with the right tools and conditions) if you know how!!! I've spent enough time seem targets being consistently hit, at 1000 yeards, so I know is possible, got it????.
Now, "hold your horses" about that, I can, you can't, stuff. I never said such thing and I'm not interested in selling myself, or anything. indeed, found it very disapointing that someone like yourself, didn't pic-up on some of my clues, about what I'm about. Do you know many is these self claimed "sharpidiots" that take the time to study ballistics, or waste their time by doing all sorts of tests, like the graphics I offer to anyone????
My point, precisely, please... DITTO!, Thanks


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## huntin1

Niodyne,

I just went back and reread your posts carefully, I guess the first time around I read too fast and jumped to conclusions, I apologize.

Yeah, I know what you are saying when you talk about those who will not study ballistics, get to know their rifle and how it performs with different loads, put in the time sending thousands of bullets downrange, and still proclaim themselves "sharpshooters".

Don't normally "sell" myself either. I was in bad mood yesterday and now that I reread what I wrote, I'm sorry that I posted it.

Maybe I'm having nitrocellulose withdrawl, haven't fired a shot in the past week. Maybe I better go to the range. :lol:

Again, sorry if I offended.

:beer:

huntin1


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## huntin1

Keith Tobberman said:


> Many of you wonder how you know where your bullit is going to be at 400 yards. Just check any ballist ics table. It will give you the trajectory of a bullet at 2-3-4-500 yards if the gun is sighted in at 100 yards. This is the easiest way to do it if you dont have a good place to target shoot that far.


Keith,

I should have addressed this yesterday, but I was too busy jumping to conclusions and making an a$$ of myself.

Anyway, don't rely too much on what the ballistics program tells you. Use it as a guide. Don't substitute a computer program for rangetime. As an example, my Sierra Infinity program told me that I needed 18 moa's up at 600 yards with my factory Blk Hills 168 grain load, while trigger time told me I needed 16.5 moa's. Since 1 moa at 600 yards is 6 inchs, the program put me 9 inches high, big difference.

Now don't get me wrong here. Ballistics calculators are a great tool and I use them all the time, several of them in fact. But you really need to get out and punch holes at range to know what your rifle is going to do.

Besides, range time gets you out of the house and away from all those honeydo's your wife comes up with. :lol:

huntin1


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## Niodyne

Thank you, huntin 1. It takes a grown-up man, to accept mistakes and apologise. Therefore, your apologies are accepted.

If anything else, I hope this has been a lesson for some people. Don't just jump to conclusions and or pass judgement without being sure of the facts!!!!

Now, that we got this one sorted, lets go to magnum3.5's original question, and think about it, *"Is a 243 to small?"*

The only reasonable answer is, for some it is, for other's is not, and would be many others that will find it just perfect. Someone did mention in this threat before, you should match the caliber with the game you hunting!

That would be the most reasonable option, indeed, that is one of the reasons why some states and countries all over the world, have minimum caliber requirements for diferent animal species. Under kill and over kill are well known subjects, and they have created in the pass, some very 
"nasty" problems to all of those, trying to do the right thing and keep the hunting spirit alive.

Makes no sense to alert and initiate provocation with "our friends" the animal liberation groups. Trying to be smart and come to places such as these forums, making some silly claims, ie. that they shoot elefants with a 243, or they use 243 to shoot rabbits, doesn't help us much!!!

Not everyone can afford a new gun every year, buy the lattest toys and keep 20,30,40 guns in a safe, and we all know that, maybe not everyone has the time, conditions and money to spent on thausants of rounds just for practise, and have the paciences to study ballistics and use every computer program to make all sorts of tests, and you know what, it's ok, that don't make you a lesser importante or proficient shooter, if you're reasonable.

What I also think, is that, if shooters and hunters would stop being so damn selfish, cutting each other throats for no reason at all, we would be most certainly, a lot better served!!!! 
You just don't catch bees with vinegar, and most of the more experienced shooters would be willing to help those in need, if some of you would just grow-up and stop being "smart arseholes". Learn to listen to reason!!!

Now, and finally, *my opinion*about the 243.
I own one and I shoot with it. Certain days I couldn't miss with it even if I try, other days I wish that I've stayed home. It shoots very well and kills accordingly. 243 would be one of the most popupar calibers ever invented. Is versatile, economic to shoot, components readelly available, easy on the barrel, ammo and shoulder. I would use these 2 calibers on the group -2 bellow.

I even got a *243 short *known as 6mmBR. This little cartidge, similar with the new winchester WSS, is a truly shooter. Spitting a 6mm X 65 gr projectile at 3550 fps (compressed load) with 10gr less powder than a normal 243, is quite someting, sorry I'm getting off truck were so, is my opinion that you would be ok with only 3 rifles and a shotgun, if you can. Lets divide all hunting species in three groups. 
Group 1 -Varmint, small animals (up to 30 kg) and birds - small calibre rifle + shotgun for most birds.
Group 2 - Medium size animals (from 30kg up to 150 kg)
Group 3 - Large size animals (from 150 upwards)

There are hundreds of calibers to chose from, and you and only you shoud make the final decision, what is the best for you. Just keep in minde that some of the very good preformers are also very, very expensive to shoot and difficult to get ammo for it. Just be reasonable and realistic about what you're getting and what you're getting it for.

Remember, being modest and ask questions is nothing to be ashamed off!!!!
Bad questions, are only those that get no answer!!!!
[/b]


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

I read a story about a guy several years ago that came to Alaska and the only weapon he had was a 220 swift. Well, with that 220 swift he killed everything from rabbits to Big Brown Bears.
So I still believe "it's not the Arrow, it's the Indian". :sniper:


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## Eagle_Eye44

personally i am a big fan of the 30.06 but my brother just returned from a south african safari hunt and he carried nothing but his .243 with 95 grain hollow point loads. granted they are hot loads but when he returned he took a total of 5 shots on a 5 animal hunt and has 5 shoulder mounts on the way. his closest shot was 250yds on a zebra. and farthest was 405 yds on a kudu. kudu's are hard to put down but i have the video tape to prove his never twitched after the shot, just simply fell down and expired. so if you dont think a .243 has enough for north american game your sadly mistaken.


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## Burnout

I personally shoot the .243 out of an encore pistol, I know the limits of both myself and my gun, and i take the shot accordingly. Its a great round for those who know their limits, and they vary from person to person.

I was watching a hunting show recently where a fellow shot a deer with a .30-30 single shot. after the segment the host went on to say "I was a little worried about him using that .30-30" Where has this guy been. they are trying to sell the newest cartride, the big "magnums" that can kill anything, at anyrange all you need is to pull the trigger. Its what big burly men do and need to have.

I myself will not take a shot past the 200 yard mark and rarely shoot that far, can it kill past that, sure have seen it done many many times, just not something im comfortable with doing. If i had to take a shot past that im not doing my part (as i see it) as a hunter, Im not hunting I just shooting at something that is too far away to even have a remote chance of noticeing me (400-500). To me thats shooting, not hunting, but i dont damn people if thats how they like it, to each there own.

So imho its big enough

good luck and be safe

Dave


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## headhunter

Its too small for all around deer hunting. Good for 100 yard pot shots at a little doe standing still on the south 40, but not a good all around, kill the big one, in any circumstance,B/C on the line , deer quartering away at 200 yards,250 pound rut crazed monster, your 8 inches to the left type gun. A .22 LR will kill a deer, as will a 3 blade muzzy or a real big rock, but if your serious about "killing Whitetails" leave the plinker in the closet.


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## Bore.224

headhunter makes a good point, yes under ideal circumstances any rifle will do but as we all know Ideal and reality are two different things. Hey I am a big fan of going on the lite side but why not have more power and penatration!!!


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## zogman

This may become the longest running thread :lol:

I never owned a 243, but as an avid handloader prefered the 6mm Rem and used it for about 25 years.



> Its too small for all around deer hunting. Good for 100 yard pot shots at a little doe standing still on the south 40, but not a good all around, kill the big one.


 :sniper:

That pretty much sums up the way I felt also :withstupid:

When I was going to Saskatwan hoping to really get a chance at Mr. Big the ole 270 went along and the backup rifle was you won't guess.... a second 270...... Of course I was raised by the Jack O'Conner school of rifles. :lol: Oh and by the way I graduated with an A+ :lol:


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## NDTerminator

"Is the 243 too small"? I would have to ask "too small for what"? IMO, the 243 is a pretty fair deer/goat round, a pretty fair fox/coyote/varmint round, but not my first choice for either task.

I've shot a fair number of deer & goats out to 300 yards with 243 and 100 grain bullets at around 3,000 FPS. One of the biggest bodied deer I've ever taken was was a mule buck out in Wyoming, with a 243 at about 100 yards. I had no complaint about it's performance.

The biggest goat I've ever been in on (both body size and horn score) was taken by my wife with a Remington Model 7 in 243 at 385 yards. She was shooting using her pack as a rest, and took him square through the heart. He ran in a 20 yard circle and died in seconds. The 243 clearly was up to this task. I can't see where she could have done any better if she was using her 270 or 30-06.

In my experience, the 243 is a pretty darn good all around rifle for ND hunting. That being said, I prefer a 270 class round for medium game, and the 22-250 for dogs & varmints.


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