# IRAN PLANS TO NUKE ISRAEL!



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

*Will the US go to war with IRAN this year or 2007*​
2006622.22%2007933.33%not at all1244.44%


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

The question is will the World NATIONS allow Iran to have Nuke technology knowing their intentions; I say they are about to get their world turned upsidedown........ :dead:


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## Militant_Tiger

Do you really want war?


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

:dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :dead: :thumb: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :beer:


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## SODSUCKER

Iran will wait until the U.S. has a gutless President.

SODSUCKER


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## Eagle Eye

I think Israel will take care of the Iranins with a BIG NUKE!


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## Militant_Tiger

> Iran will wait until the U.S. has a gutless President.


Well then what are they waiting for?


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## Eagle Eye

Little boy talks like person with little respect. NUKE all those GODLESS soles to hell.


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## Gun Owner

Militant_Tiger said:


> Iran will wait until the U.S. has a gutless President.
> 
> 
> 
> Well then what are they waiting for?
Click to expand...

How can you call a man gutless after constantly refering to him as trigger happy? Dont the two contradict each other?

Seems to me that the Iranians will likely wait to see if we get a president that is less likely to side with Isreal. Hopefully the voting public continues to stay educated and doesnt fall for the Liberal Pacifist propaganda.

On the subject of Isreal, I think they show remarkable restraint in the face of eminent violence. I can honestly say I wouldnt be standing around waiting if I was in charge.


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## SODSUCKER

Iran will respect Israel by the time they are done with them. Respect is earned, by doing the right thing even if it is unpopular. Some people will never understand that, because they are me-me's.(It's all about them)

SODSUCKER


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## Militant_Tiger

> How can you call a man gutless after constantly refering to him as trigger happy? Dont the two contradict each other?


Guts would be acting when necessary but when others would not. I have seen this president make a lot of stupid decisions but none of them have shown any guts to me.



> Seems to me that the Iranians will likely wait to see if we get a president that is less likely to side with Isreal.


And what makes it seem like that? Wouldn't they wait until a "gutless liberal" came into office to announce their program, the development of enriched uranium and their military games? Doesn't seem that this cowboy administration has done anything to deter them.



> Hopefully the voting public continues to stay educated and doesnt fall for the Liberal Pacifist propaganda.


Yes, because things have turned out so well in this administration.



> On the subject of Isreal, I think they show remarkable restraint in the face of eminent violence. I can honestly say I wouldnt be standing around waiting if I was in charge.


Then you would be dead.


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## Plainsman

I'll tell you what a pacifist will get you. A mushroom cloud on the horizon, or closer. You either take care of small problems now, or big problems later. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. I'm not picking on democrats either, you can find pansies in both parties.


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## Militant_Tiger

I agree that proactive action is best, but jumping in swinging blind will only create more problems.


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## Plainsman

I don't think anyone suggested going in swinging blind. We do need to do something and quick, or Israel will. Once that starts look for WWIII. My choice for a first move would be a covert action. I think there would be ways to make their bomb go boom and look like an accident. Do it now while it would still be a small boom and not spread radio active contaminants to the innocent, if they have any innocent.

I disagree that we are at a disadvantage because we are in Iraq. We are very close, and that is always an advantage. We now have ground from which to strike if need be. Even if Saudi Arabia says we can not use their air bases no big deal now. I wouldn't risk as many of our soldiers this time. I would bomb until they surrender. Then let them clean up their mess. One may think it can not be done by air strike, but enough and big bombs will do it.


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## Militant_Tiger

I could argue those point by point but I will sum it up by saying that your strategies rest in fantast and cannot be preformed in reality.


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## Plainsman

So your response is to be a smart *** again like in the other thread? There you also jumped to conclusions. Then your angry because I call you a child. Your 17 what would you call it? I also claimed you shoot from the hip. When responses come in a couple of minutes I call that shooting from the hip. If you want to pretend to be an adult act like one.


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## Militant_Tiger

Ok you asked for it.



> We do need to do something and quick, or Israel will.


They aren't dumb enough to get themselves blown off the map so rapidly.



> Once that starts look for WWIII.


I would argue that it would be World War Four, but who's counting?



> I think there would be ways to make their bomb go boom and look like an accident.


Indeed, because covert plans involving Iran have gone so well in the past. We want to be known as the cloak and dagger nation.



> Do it now while it would still be a small boom and not spread radio active contaminants to the innocent, if they have any innocent.


What would this boom do? Toss them off track for a year at best? It would certainly heighten tensions and create yet larger problems in the future. As to the innocent in Iran, I find it funny that you should even consider that an entire nation is guilty of this bullying.



> I disagree that we are at a disadvantage because we are in Iraq. We are very close, and that is always an advantage. We now have ground from which to strike if need be.


You are not thinking logically. One of our greatest advantages is mobility. We could gain access to Iran whether it be through Iran or not. We have ICMBs which can be launched from Idaho and into Tehran. By being so near all we have accomplished is putting them on equal footing when it comes to mobilization and launching missiles.

This is not to mention the fact that we now have a weary army and are tied up in Iraq such that we could not leave without having it turn into a yet greater mess.



> Even if Saudi Arabia says we can not use their air bases no big deal now.


Is that why we didn't attack said supporters of terror? To ensure a solid airbase in the Mid East? What a trade off.



> I would bomb until they surrender.


Carpet bombing is a bit outdated.



> Then let them clean up their mess.


Which would create more fanatics for the next generation to deal with.



> One may think it can not be done by air strike, but enough and big bombs will do it.


I'm certain Stalin would agree.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

I agree with Plainsman, this was also what I believe to be part of the BIG PLAN if your good at following whats going on. The President put this out there years ago about Iran and South Korea being part of the axes of eveil :evil: . Anyway there is some dipsticks out there that think we can't handle Iran because we're in Iraq; that's even makes it EZ'er for us to kick their butts. Don't worry our troops, they are the best in the world and they can handle it!


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## Militant_Tiger

> Anyway there is some dipsticks out there that think we can't handle Iran because we're in Iraq; that's even makes it EZ'er for us to kick their butts. Don't worry our troops, they are the best in the world and they can handle it!


It is that type of gusto that will get soldiers and perhaps many others killed. Don't stretch the military too thin.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Go get some education about our Armed Forces before you speak about stuff you know NOTHING about.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Alaskan Brown Bear Killer said:


> Go get some education about our Armed Forces before you speak about stuff you know NOTHING about.


I would say less than 1% of our military assets are in Iraq so who's spreading them too thin.............. You mean like Clinton did; having our FORCES in 59 different military operations at once.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Oh by the way if you knew anything about Israel, you would know they could kick the crap out of Iran without our help. Brush up on your military affairs little boy.


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## Militant_Tiger

> I would say less than 1% of our military assets are in Iraq so who's spreading them too thin.............. You mean like Clinton did; having our FORCES in 59 different military operations at once.


Do you have any idea what you are talking about?


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## Plainsman

MT, I finally got it through my head that you don't know enough about what is going on to discuss these things. You don't remember the six day war or any of those events. Israel will kick the crap out of any three or four of those nations without breaking a sweat. It would appear that your constant Israel bashing puts you into the position of appearing anti Jewish. Why do you hate them so much?


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## Militant_Tiger

Your conclusion couldn't be farther from the truth. At the same time I'm sure that if I was as anti Muslim as you are I would try to paint the opposition as anti Hebrew.


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## Plainsman

You called for abandoning an ally, that's very radical. Wouldn't anyone under normal circumstances consider that anti (Jewish in this case)?
After that statement don't talk to anyone about loyalty.


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## Militant_Tiger

I do not advocate supporting a nation when they cause as much trouble as Israel. The only reason I can see to support said nation is to ensure the end of days scenario of the Bible, which is far more radical than trying to support America's interest first.


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## Plainsman

What do you consider being a trouble maker, breathing air? We know how you feel about Israel MT, don't sugar coat it. 
So what has the end of days in the Bible have to do with this. Furthermore if you see supporting them for that as more radical than supporting our interest that speaks volumes about you also. Oh, I get it you want to switch to a religious argument. No thanks.


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## Militant_Tiger

> What do you consider being a trouble maker, breathing air? We know how you feel about Israel MT, don't sugar coat it.


Israel has caused nothing but problems since it's creation. It pushed natives off of their lands and as such there has been nearly constant violence ever since.



> So what has the end of days in the Bible have to do with this.


Evangelists as well as many neo conservatives like yourself support the existence of Isreal because it is one of the necessary events for the rapture to occur. Shouldn't you know this?



> Oh, I get it you want to switch to a religious argument. No thanks.


You've already succeeded in dragging the debate to the existence of Israel.


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## kills 4 fun

We will never see war with Iran, actually it would make more sense to fight them than Iraq,


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## Plainsman

Kills 4 fun
I wish I was as confident as you about that. I don't think Iran is being rational, and I don't think they will back down. If nothing is done I fear they will have a nuke sometime in the next (I have no idea how long it takes to do this) perhaps five years. Maybe less. What do we do once they have it? I think they are nuts enough to use it. That's the problem. Countries like Russia (even if they were our enemy) are more rational people. Israel, India, Pakistan, none are as nuts as these Iranians (well maybe North Korea). 
I would hate to be sitting where Israel is now. This is why someone must do something soon. If the United Nations does get off their duff and do something that would be great. Just about any nation other than Israel can stop this without it becoming an all out war. If Israel strikes, and Iran strikes back get ready for the desert to run with blood, and it will be 90 percent Arab blood.


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## kills 4 fun

That is why I am thankful we can sit over here and debate such things in the comforts of our homes and only worry baout shooting a coyote or two every now and then. Yes if Israel is attacked the sand shall turn red with the blood of the Arabs...


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## Plainsman

You know kills 4 fun shooting a couple coyotes sure souns better than this stuff right now doesn't it?


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

kills 4 fun said:


> That is why I am thankful we can sit over here and debate such things in the comforts of our homes and only worry baout shooting a coyote or two every now and then. Yes if Israel is attacked the sand shall turn red with the blood of the Arabs...


Israel will not wait to be attacked and distroyed, that's why their country has survived so long. Thousands of years the Arab nations have done nothing but screw with Israel and Israel has done a great job of deffending itself against the Islamic nutballs. :beer:


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## Militant_Tiger

> Israel will not wait to be attacked and distroyed, that's why their country has survived so long. Thousands of years the Arab nations have done nothing but screw with Israel and Israel has done a great job of deffending itself against the Islamic nutballs


Do you have any concept of reality at all? Israel was formed less than 70 years ago.


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## Plainsman

> Do you have any concept of reality at all? Israel was formed less than 70 years ago.


Formed again would be more accurate. They have existed for a very long time, then were disposed from their homeland, and have returned.


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## Militant_Tiger

If you want to go back that far we may as well say that it is the pagan's homeland.


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## Gohon

Israel is a trouble maker not worth supporting? Wasn't really that long ago that over 400,000 Americans died supporting England, France and the Philippines. How many Americans have died supporting or defending Israel?

If you don't think Israel isn't capable of defending itself just remember this..............when Israel declared statehood, several Arab states and Palestinian groups immediately attacked Israel. They were stopped in their tracks not by Israel soldiers but by farmers living on the boarders. Theses civilians held off the attacking armies for two days until Israel armed forces could mobilize and drive back the invaders When Nassar vowed to attack Israel and organized Arab nations into a fighting force what did Israel do...... they didn't sit on their butts that's for sure. Instead the launched a preempted invasion with its own attack. They captured the Sinai Peninsula, Gaza Strip, West Bank, and Golan Heights. I'll take one Soldier from Israel in a foxhole with me any day over 50 French soldiers.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Israel is a trouble maker not worth supporting? Wasn't really that long ago that over 400,000 Americans died supporting England, France and the Philippines. How many Americans have died supporting or defending Israel?


What is the connection? It is my opinion that we shouldn't judge our alliances by how many have died in their support.



> I'll take one Soldier from Israel in a foxhole with me any day over 50 French soldiers.


I'm certain you know enough of each personally to judge.


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## Gun Owner

> I'll take one Soldier from Israel in a foxhole with me any day over 50 French soldiers.


Hell, I'd take an Isreali housewife over 50 French soldiers...


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## DecoyDummy

MT

Some say ... Jesus was a Jew ...

That alone takes us back two millennia ... and if Jesus was born in Nazareth (part of the modern day Jewish state of Israel) &#8230;

Well ...

Your 70 year premise starts looking pretty meager in comparison to the Annals of History.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

He's igorant to the facts and makes his own stories believable only to himself. He's very young and extremely arrogant, missguided, biased and Illinformed. He just needs to get a life and grow up.


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## always_outdoors

How many warnings is this guy going to get??

ABBK: If you dont' agree with someone, then debate. These threads are being locked because of you, not MT.

Guess you haven't figured that out yet.


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## racer66

Right now Iran thinks our country is weak and will cave in, they hear the contant rumble from the left how we can't win in Iraq, "we got to get out, we cant do it", what a bunch of yellow belly panzies. They hear the left of the US and our convinced this is an opportune time to push. The Dems have played right into Irans hand just as they do with Bin Laden. uke:


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## racer66

> These threads are being locked because of you, not MT.


Now that right there is funny. :lol:


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## Burly1

The soverign nation of Israel _was_ formed 70 years ago. But don't forget, Israel's economy is based on and supported by wealthy Hebrews around the world. A great percentage of those are U.S. citizens. We are inextricably linked to Israel. We are them, they are us. If they get into it with Iran, or vice versa, we're in. I don't know any Israeli's, but I do know Jews, and you really don't want to piss 'em off. The only reason any Palestinians survive at this time, is because of the pleas of the U.S. and others, that the Israeli's spare them. That is a fact. Burl


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## KEN W

I don't think Iran will go to war with us or Israel.What will happen is a new cold war....you attack us.....we destroy you.

Israel carries a big stick and is clearly a tit for tat country.Iran attacks them and there would be no more Iran.

We need to make sure Iran knows we will do the same.You attack us,we obliterate you into a radioactive sandbox and you all get to meet those virgins you are looking for.


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## Troller1

Ken, I agree 100%. Using this theory, shouldn't Afghanistan be part of that radioactive sand box now?
Troller1


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## racer66

Amen Ken.


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## DecoyDummy

I think that premise (Cold War Theory) is ill placed when appllied to "Extremest Whacko Muslims."

It works with more "Secular Thinking" Societies ...

You can't forget ... The folks in power profess "death for the cause" as something more valiant than life and have a following where many can be convinced of the same.

For us to continue into the future ... ignoring/mitigating/under-estimating that reality ... could easily be a last deadly mistake.

Or so it seems to me


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## Militant_Tiger

> Right now Iran thinks our country is weak and will cave in, they hear the contant rumble from the left how we can't win in Iraq, "we got to get out, we cant do it", what a bunch of yellow belly panzies. They hear the left of the US and our convinced this is an opportune time to push. The Dems have played right into Irans hand just as they do with Bin Laden.


Do you really think that Iran gives a damn what the minority party says in America? If anything they think we are weak because the Iraq war has been executed so poorly. I am stunned that you are capable of blaming nearly everything on the Democrats. Passing the buck seems to be the name of the game.



> The soverign nation of Israel was formed 70 years ago. But don't forget, Israel's economy is based on and supported by wealthy Hebrews around the world. A great percentage of those are U.S. citizens. We are inextricably linked to Israel. We are them, they are us. If they get into it with Iran, or vice versa, we're in. I don't know any Israeli's, but I do know Jews, and you really don't want to piss 'em off. The only reason any Palestinians survive at this time, is because of the pleas of the U.S. and others, that the Israeli's spare them. That is a fact. Burl


I don't believe that because some citizens donate money to a cause that we are implicitly tied to that cause.



> We need to make sure Iran knows we will do the same.You attack us,we obliterate you into a radioactive sandbox and you all get to meet those virgins you are looking for.


Therein lies the problem. Their leader believes that the world will end within the next few years and the end of days scenario in his crazy head will be carried out.



> You can't forget ... The folks in power profess "death for the cause" as something more valiant than life and have a following where many can be convinced of the same.


Don't forget that we operate on the same principle to an extent.


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## racer66

> Do you really think that Iran gives a damn what the minority party says in America?


Yep they do, and so did Bin Laden, he said so himself, according to you BL didn't listen to the news or watch the polls either and we proved you wrong there also. Iran sees a bunch of half hearted, cut-n-runners spewing garbage all over the TV and they smile from ear to ear.


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## Burly1

MT, Talk to some old folks and find out who settled Israel and how. I did not say that money was sent to support a cause. Wealthy Jews around the world run Israel's economy. Burl


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## DecoyDummy

MT ... No we don't ...

Our service folks understand dyeing for the Country could occur during their service to Country ...

None are told in mass that going out in a conscious effort to blow yourself up as a strategy to take opposing forces with you ... is a desired or expected part of duty ... and that combined with the notion that some "Super Human Reward" awaits those who follow the directive.

And on top of that Iran has a leader who professes the end of the world will occur in two years or less ... and I think it's safe to say he may be compelled to try to trigger that event ... with Nukes


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## kills 4 fun

They understand dying for the country but what about dying for a bunch of rich politicians, and a bunch of Iraqis who dont give a s***. Lets pull out of Iraq and fight some people who really have nuclear weapons, I dont see us knocking their doors down.


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## DecoyDummy

kills 4 fun ... I believe Iraq and Afghanistan are our "Launching Pads" in the event of operations against Iran ...Don't overlook the strategic importance of those to chunks of land ...

I for one happen to believe gaining a military foothold in the region was always a "back burner" strategy in both Afghanistan and Iraq.

We are fighting a belief system which emanates from that region and anything we could "plausibly" justify doing to get in there with a strong foothold for the future is "a good thing" down the road in this fight.


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## kills 4 fun

So why didnt Bush say hey we are attacking Iraq because we need that country as a foot hold for future missions in the middle east. Instead of all the BS he said. Hell we cant even win a war against the damn terroist and insurgents how are we ever going to win a war a against trained fighters with technology and money. The only way we will win that type of war is by avoiding it, or have somebody with some sense plan it out.


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## DJRooster

I see a lot of anals in this thread! If anyone nukes Isreal heaven forbid, there will be hell to pay!


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## kills 4 fun

Quit kissing anals and they wont be in your face to see. :lol: Also I agree if they hit Israel it will be bad....


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## Militant_Tiger

> Yep they do, and so did Bin Laden, he said so himself, according to you BL didn't listen to the news or watch the polls either and we proved you wrong there also. Iran sees a bunch of half hearted, cut-n-runners spewing garbage all over the TV and they smile from ear to ear.


So the minority party in the United States caused Bin Laden to attack us and is causing Iran to be defiant. Are you really that delusional?



> None are told in mass that going out in a conscious effort to blow yourself up as a strategy to take opposing forces with you ... is a desired or expected part of duty ... and that combined with the notion that some "Super Human Reward" awaits those who follow the directive.


I didn't mean to imply that, rather that dying in the line of duty even in the United States is honorable. Let it be known before some try to blame this on Islam that the Quran states that living a good and holy life is greater than dying in battle.



> And on top of that Iran has a leader who professes the end of the world will occur in two years or less ... and I think it's safe to say he may be compelled to try to trigger that event ... with Nukes


Indeed we must treat the threat as serious, and we must tread lightly. One mistake against Iran could ignite the whole Middle East.



> kills 4 fun ... I believe Iraq and Afghanistan are our "Launching Pads" in the event of operations against Iran ...Don't overlook the strategic importance of those to chunks of land ...


Once again you are negating the benefit of the United States. We have the power of range. We have missiles that can reach their shores from ours, and can rather easily drop troops in their country. By being in Iraq and Afghanistan all we have is give the Iranians an American target that they are capable of hitting.



> I for one happen to believe gaining a military foothold in the region was always a "back burner" strategy in both Afghanistan and Iraq.


Which would have been a good plan for an empire, but we aren't an empire.



> So why didnt Bush say hey we are attacking Iraq because we need that country as a foot hold for future missions in the middle east. Instead of all the BS he said.


Had the actual intent of the mission been revealed I highly doubt that it would have garnered any support.



> Hell we cant even win a war against the damn terroist and insurgents how are we ever going to win a war a against trained fighters with technology and money.


It is a lot easier to fight an army rather than civilian insurgents, but Iran is three times the size of Iraq and considerably more powerful.


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## kills 4 fun

I agree with alot of your points MT, :beer:


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## hill billy

_Keep it civil, hill billy.

Langager_


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## Plainsman

> As to the innocent in Iran, I find it funny that you should even consider that an entire nation is guilty of this bullying.


MT, I was just going back through this thread and trying to understand why things go the way they do. I have come to one conclusion so far. Well I have narrowed it down to a couple possibilities. 
You notice your reaction above to my saying if Iran has any innocent? I don't think that you understand that statements like that are simply reflections of exasperation. My exasperation is that no one in those countries condemns what is happening. I know they would be in danger if they did, but there are ways of getting the word out to the rest of the world. 
If you do understand then you willfully take it serious simply in the hopes that someone else is dumb enough to take it serious and you come out looking good being Mr. Humanitarian. If that is not the case let me assure you there is no one on here dumb enough to think there are not innocent people in Iran. Please respect people enough to give their posts some serious interpretation so you don't misunderstand so often. I think this practice would lead to more meaningful dialogue. It would perhaps be good advise for us all.


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## Robert A. Langager

racer66 said:


> These threads are being locked because of you, not MT.
> 
> 
> 
> Now that right there is funny. :lol:
Click to expand...

Nope, that is pretty much the truth.


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## DecoyDummy

MT Wrote:

Once again you are negating the benefit of the United States. We have the power of range. We have missiles that can reach their shores from ours, and can rather easily drop troops in their country. By being in Iraq and Afghanistan all we have is give the Iranians an American target that they are capable of hitting.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MT ... Once again you fail to understand the "BIG PICTURE" you fail to understand that while we can surely fly planes in from Afar ... Drop Bombs, Troops, etc, etc ...

There is this thing called "SUPPLY LINE."

Once you have troops in action they must be SUPPLIED and you need ground bases to do that ... in a country as trecherous as Iran, having the ability to approach from the East or the West is a huge asset. At this point we have substantial established bases in both countries ... We would indeed need to rely on our ability to eliminate the missle threat to those bases from Iran as quickly as possible.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Please respect people enough to give their posts some serious interpretation so you don't misunderstand so often.


Sorry if I overreacted, but you did implicitly say that there may not be any innocent people in Iran. That kind of talk irks me whether it be out of exasperation or not.



> Once you have troops in action they must be SUPPLIED and you need ground bases to do that ... in a country as trecherous as Iran, having the ability to approach from the East or the West is a huge asset. At this point we have substantial established bases in both countries ... We would indeed need to rely on our ability to eliminate the missle threat to those bases from Iran as quickly as possible.


But isn't the current military plan a quick strike to take out their bomb production capability? I wasn't aware that a plan for an occupation or long ground war was in the works. As to the supply line, we could always do what Rommel did and fly them in. Worked for him until El Alamein.


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## hill billy

Where have you heard anything or seen anything about a quick military plan, they arent even for sure they are going to attack?


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> Where have you heard anything or seen anything about a quick military plan, they arent even for sure they are going to attack?


Thus far the only plan of attack that I have heard of is a tactical strike on their production facilities.


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## Plainsman

Guys, people in the pentagon spend all their career planning wars with many countries on earth. They deal with what if, not certainty. With that in mind you can rest assured there are more than a dozen scenarios on what to do about Iran. They are very secretive, and if any of you have heard anything it is more than likely just the over active imagination of a spin doctor from one political view or another.


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## hill billy

BUT WHERE FROM WHO HAVE YOU HEARD THIS? WHAT ARE YOUR SOURCES?


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## Militant_Tiger

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArt ... N-WRAP.xml


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-04-19T004629Z_01_L17370115_RTRUKOC_0_UK-NUCLEAR-IRAN-WRAP.xml


Why would he rule anything out?


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## hill billy

Said nothing of a tactical strike....


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## DecoyDummy

MT ... As Plainsman says ...

We have folks in the Military who spend their time simply going through every imaginable possiblity ... A constant stream of "If they do this, We do this" ... "If they do this, We do this" ... "If they do this, We do this." The thinking and planning doesn't stop with any single sort of action ...

In the process they can discover lots of interesting things. And the Bottom Line is ... if we need to over throw the Iranian Regime it's not likely to happen from 20 or 30 thousand feet. No one knows for certain what will come of Iran, however we are at war with them as we type here now, so don't under estimate the value of the access we have

And without regard to Iran ... having this foorprint in that region is very valuable to us ... we have access to the region from it's very center.


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## Militant_Tiger

We certainly have allies in the area though. Iraq may turn out to be handy but in all likliehood it will just act as a very close target for the Iranians. Again this is all speculation, no one knows if anything will amount of it at all. I still doubt that this will come to a head because the current regime is quite unpopular.


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## MOB

I'm sure the pentagon is going to publicly announce their plans in detail before taking any action against Iran or at least check with MT to make sure the plan is acceptable and logistically feasible.


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## hill billy

Oh well of course if they want to accomplish anything, you never know he might be ole Dick Cheney in disquise.....


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## Militant_Tiger

Wasn't one of the biggest complaints in the Iraq war that the Bush administration publicized their plan and gave Saddam too much time to prepare?


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## Plainsman

That's right MT, and I hope they are a lot smarter if it happens again. If we hear something about what they are going to do in all likelyhood it will be what will not happen. 
If it was me I would say if you don't shape up we hit you in September, then blow their socks of in June.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> Wasn't one of the biggest complaints in the Iraq war that the Bush administration publicized their plan and gave Saddam too much time to prepare?


It took that long to count all the different VOTES Kerry made for and against the war. :lol:


----------



## Militant_Tiger

I'm more for such a stance in Iraq than Iran. We need to use diplomacy for as long as possible concerning Iran lest we set off a chain of events that will lead to more problems in the Middle East.


----------



## Plainsman

I look at it like watching a fuse on a stick of dynamite. I'll keep talking as long as the sparks are flying a few feet from the stick, but when it gets within a few inches we better do something. You know, do something or get off the pot.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Fair enough but we are far from there.


----------



## Plainsman

Militant_Tiger said:


> Fair enough but we are far from there.


We are far from there, but none of us know how far. In any event there is an enemy about the camp and it's time to beat the drum and awaken the people. We don't want to be caught sleeping.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

If I was in office I would begin sanctions today.

As to how long it would take them, put it this way. They have made a small amount of power plant grade uranium using (I believe) 140 centerfuges. To produce enough weapons grade uranium they would need literally thousands or hundreds of thousands of centerfuges, and quite a bit of time. Most experts predict at least 3 years.


----------



## Bore.224

Every minute I sit in this room I get weaker, and every minute croched in the bush, Charlie gets stronger. The longer we wait the worse off we will be we should attack now.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Bore.224 said:


> Every minute I sit in this room I get weaker, and every minute croched in the bush, Charlie gets stronger. The longer we wait the worse off we will be we should attack now.


I do believe we used the same mentality concerning Iraq. That turned out poorly enough to teach us better.


----------



## Bore.224

Our problem in Iraq, is we are trying to teach pigs how to fly! Attack now without warning, lets just not hang around and sing songs and hold hands with the survivors.


----------



## SODSUCKER

How then will you reply when we are forced to worship Allah or die? For me it will be pull the trigger.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Bore.224 said:


> Our problem in Iraq, is we are trying to teach pigs how to fly! Attack now without warning, lets just not hang around and sing songs and hold hands with the survivors.


Why would we go to war unnecessarialy, risk the lives of the innocent, of our troops without merit, and risk sparking more violence in the Mid East? The time for war mongering was 92 years ago.


----------



## Gohon

Iran has informed the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency that it plans to construct 3,000 centrifuges at Natanz next year, Rademaker said.
Rademaker (U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation) calculated that a 3,000-machine cascade could produce enough uranium to build a nuclear weapon within 271 days.''

So much for the literally thousands or hundreds of thousands of centerfuges theory.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> According to Bloomberg Online.
> Iran Could Produce Nuclear Bomb in 16 Days, U.S. Says (Update2)
> April 12 (Bloomberg) -- Iran, defying United Nations Security Council demands to halt its nuclear program, may be capable of making a nuclear bomb within 16 days, a U.S. State Department official said.
> 
> Iran will move to ``industrial scale'' uranium enrichment involving 54,000 centrifuges at its Natanz plant, the Associated Press quoted deputy nuclear chief Mohammad Saeedi as telling state-run television today.
> 
> ``Using those 50,000 centrifuges they could produce enough highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon in 16 days,'' Stephen Rademaker, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation, told reporters today in Moscow.
> 
> Rademaker was reacting to a statement by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who said yesterday the country had succeeded in enriching uranium on a small scale for the first time, using 164 centrifuges. That announcement defies demands by the UN Security Council that Iran shut down its nuclear program this month.
> 
> The U.S. fears Iran is pursuing a nuclear program to make weapons, while Iran says it is intent on purely civilian purposes, to provide energy. Saeedi said 54,000 centrifuges will be able to enrich uranium to provide fuel for a 1,000-megawat nuclear power plant similar to the one Russia is finishing in southern Iran, AP reported.


----------



## Gohon

> Your information is incorrect. The bare minimum for a power plant is 54,000 centerfuges.


That's for high grade uranium kid. We're speaking of a low grade uranium that can be used in a bomb and besides I never heard of anyone dropping a power plant on a city. Now why didn't you quote the entire statement by Rademaker" Here is the sections you conveniently left out.....



> "According to an article in Bloomberg, an American State Department official is being quoted as saying the following in response to Iranian deputy nuclear chief Mohammad Saeedi's televised claim that Iran was about to move to ``industrial scale'' uranium enrichment involving 54,000 centrifuges at its Natanz plant:
> 
> ``Using those 50,000 centrifuges they could produce enough highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon in 16 days,'' Stephen Rademaker, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for International Security and Nonproliferation, told reporters today in Moscow.
> 
> and
> 
> ``It was a deeply disappointing announcement,'' Rademaker said of Ahmadinejad's statement.
> 
> Weapons-Grade Uranium
> 
> Rademaker said the technology to enrich uranium to a low level could also be used to make weapons-grade uranium, saying that it would take a little over 13 years to produce enough highly enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon with the 164 centrifuges currently in use. The process involves placing uranium hexafluoride gas in a series of rotating drums or cylinders known as centrifuges that run at high speeds to extract weapons grade uranium.
> 
> Iran has informed the Vienna-based International Atomic Energy Agency that it plans to construct 3,000 centrifuges at Natanz next year, Rademaker said.
> ``*We calculate that a 3,000-machine cascade could produce enough uranium to build a nuclear weapon within 271 days*,'' he said.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> That's for high grade uranium kid. We're speaking of a low grade uranium that can be used in a bomb and besides I never heard of anyone dropping a power plant on a city. Now why didn't you quote the entire statement by Rademaker" Here is the sections you conveniently left out.....


Does it not take high grade uranium to make a bomb, higher quality than a power plant takes?

I didn't leave any portion out, I simply copied what was listed on the site I got it from.


----------



## MSG Rude

Gohon said:


> ... I'll take one Soldier from Israel in a foxhole with me any day over 50 French soldiers.


For once I can say that I fully agree with you.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> Yep they do, and so did Bin Laden, he said so himself, according to you BL didn't listen to the news or watch the polls either and we proved you wrong there also. Iran sees a bunch of half hearted, cut-n-runners spewing garbage all over the TV and they smile from ear to ear.
> 
> 
> 
> So the minority party in the United States caused Bin Laden to attack us and is causing Iran to be defiant. Are you really that delusional?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> None are told in mass that going out in a conscious effort to blow yourself up as a strategy to take opposing forces with you ... is a desired or expected part of duty ... and that combined with the notion that some "Super Human Reward" awaits those who follow the directive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I didn't mean to imply that, rather that dying in the line of duty even in the United States is honorable. Let it be known before some try to blame this on Islam that the Quran states that living a good and holy life is greater than dying in battle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *The Bible says in Genesis 12, that whoever blesses Israel will be blessed and whoever curses Israel, will be cursed. We must stay by Israel's side at all costs*.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> The Bible says in Genesis 12, that whoever blesses Israel will be blessed and whoever curses Israel, will be cursed. We must stay by Israel's side at all costs.


Do not the Muslim fanatics use the same sort of mentality?


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> The Bible says in Genesis 12, that whoever blesses Israel will be blessed and whoever curses Israel, will be cursed. We must stay by Israel's side at all costs.
> 
> 
> 
> Using that mentality do you really see yourself above the Muslim religious fanatics?
Click to expand...

Without a doubt, which side are you on and why?


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> Without a doubt, which side are you on and why?


Why must there be sides?


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

That's what the French said too.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> Without a doubt, which side are you on and why?
> 
> 
> 
> Why must there be sides?
Click to expand...

Did you figure out which side yet and why?


----------



## Militant_Tiger

I refuse to take a side. Fanaticism has never done any good.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> I refuse to take a side. Fanaticism has never done any good.


That's ok, it's EZ'er that way :thumb:


----------



## SODSUCKER

Refusing to take a side is deplorable. Iam reminded of the Tories during the revelutionary war. This is a core problem with America today. I am disgusted!


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

SODSUCKER said:


> Refusing to take a side is deplorable. Iam reminded of the Tories during the revelutionary war. This is a core problem with America today. I am disgusted!


I don't think he goes to school; to busy teaching all of us how the dems are going to save the world here at Nodak Outdoors :lol:


----------



## atec

Please don't compare campaigns . Every campaign is different ; logistics ; terrain ; weaponry ; etc.,etc.
If you were to ask me I'd say lock'n'load & bar the door . Let'em have at it .
Last man standing and salvage what you can . Pure and simple .


----------



## T3|-| F7U&gt;&lt; C4P4C41

Many who support this war, I believe, aren't of draft age... :eyeroll:


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Last I herd we do not have a draft in this country, so what age would that be?
Our #1 Military in the world are an all volunteer Force so what's the draft even have to do with it?


----------



## Militant_Tiger

We still have selective service ABBK. The draft is always a real possibility. If things go sour in Iran and we don't have enough troops to fight in Iraq and Iran at once, the draft will probably occur.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> We still have selective service ABBK. The draft is always a real possibility. If things go sour in Iran and we don't have enough troops to fight in Iraq and Iran at once, the draft will probably occur.


Selective service registering is not a draft, should have learned that in your government class at school. You're very misinformered if you think the USA can't handle IRAN :eyeroll:


----------



## T3|-| F7U&gt;&lt; C4P4C41

ABBK, I need to ask- do you have children or grandchildren of draft age?


----------



## MSG Rude

Militant_Tiger said:


> We still have selective service ABBK. The draft is always a real possibility. If things go sour in Iran and we don't have enough troops to fight in Iraq and Iran at once, the draft will probably occur.


MT...

Little boy and the ****....

The draft will never be again. There is too much left-winged liberal types that want someone else to do the job and not one of their family members.

Even at an all time low with recruiting like all services have experienced these last couple of years the draft was never considered.

Kind of like people that like to sit back and knock our military and its leaders. Willing to sit on the fense and ***** all day about them but not ready to put themselves in harms way. Like all the P.C. folks out there that waive the flag and wear cool little lapel pins but when you want to talk to them about their kids or themselves serving in the military all of sudden want nothing to do with it.

Just another case of enjoying the fruits of others labor but not willing to lend a shoulder to the work.

And if the shoe fits, wear it.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

T3|-| F7U>< C4P4C41 said:


> ABBK, I need to ask- do you have children or grandchildren of draft age?


It's hard to draft an Active Duty person. :eyeroll: 
My son is a volunteer in the Air Force and doing quite well, and I'm very proud of him.
Was else do you have? 
Maybe you should consider the same; do something positive for you country instead of *****ing about it.
Oh by the way, as long as they're have people out there like my son who volunteers you can still sit back and watch and *****. :strapped:


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> The draft will never be again. There is too much left-winged liberal types that want someone else to do the job and not one of their family members.


You shouldn't be forced to fight. You don't get high quality troops with mass conscription anyway.



> Willing to sit on the fense and b#tch all day about them but not ready to put themselves in harms way.


Are you proposing an armed overthrow of the Bush administration? That seems a little radical to me.



> Like all the P.C. folks out there that waive the flag and wear cool little lapel pins but when you want to talk to them about their kids or themselves serving in the military all of sudden want nothing to do with it.


Just like most neo conservatives and Congressmen, as well as our president.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

> Just like most neo conservatives and Congressmen, as well as our president.


They have earn the right; they served their country with honor,you have not.
You don't have to worry about ever being drafted anyway; you wouldn't pass the screening.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

How exactly have the presidents daughters and our Congressmen served with honor?


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

It's called support, like your support for terrorist by your actions


----------



## Militant_Tiger

That is absurd.


----------



## hill billy

> That is absurd.


But true.............


----------



## T3|-| F7U&gt;&lt; C4P4C41

Call it *****ing, but when young men are unecessarily dragged into a unecessary war, well...you do the math.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

T3|-| F7U>< C4P4C41 said:


> Call it b*tching, but when young men are unecessarily dragged into a unecessary war, well...you do the math.


Are you saying that your personal freedom is unnecessary?

You do the math, None(ZERO) of our people fighting the war on terror are NON-Volunteers.
100% Volunteer Force; EZ math for me but you seem to have alot of trouble with it. :eyeroll:

If you want something to ***** about get the ACLU to help you out with why all males over 18 must register and not females for the selective service, isn't that unequal treatment?


----------



## hill billy

> and I doubt a war in Iran would do the same.


yeah well it may keep you from being Nuked, thats all...


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> yeah well it may keep you from being Nuked, thats all...


Or it may ignite more problems in the middle east and spark new waves of violence against our troops and our homeland. Tread this ground lightly.


----------



## hill billy

It could go either way, why stand back and let them secretly build Nukes and then use them on us, we should stop them now, it may cause problems in the middle east but atleast it will be there instead of us getting nuked over here...


----------



## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> It could go either way, why stand back and let them secretly build Nukes and then use them on us, we should stop them now, it may cause problems in the middle east but atleast it will be there instead of us getting nuked over here...


I don't know what you mean by secretly build nukes, they have been very open about their program. As to attacking them now, I think we have seen the effects of skipping diplomacy and jumping the gun enough to know better.


----------



## hill billy

They have been very open about using the energy for electricity.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

> Iran Ready to Transfer Nuclear Know-How
> Joining our "staunch ally in the war on terror," Pakistan, the Iranians also want to help spread the joy of the Islamic bomb. From AP:
> 
> TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's top leader said Tuesday that Tehran is ready to transfer its nuclear technology to other countries. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei made the comments in a meeting with visiting Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, who said last month that his impoverished, wartorn country was considering trying to create a nuclear program to generate electrical power.
> "Iran's nuclear capability is one example of various scientific capabilities in the country. ... The Islamic Republic of Iran is prepared to transfer the experience, knowledge and technology of its scientists," Khamenei told al-Bashir at their meeting.
> 
> Al-Bashir congratulated Iran for its success in producing enriched uranium for the first time, saying the achievement was a "great success for the world of Islam."


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Any source?


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> Any source?


Quote: 
Iran Ready to Transfer Nuclear Know-How 
Joining our "staunch ally in the war on terror," Pakistan, the Iranians also want to help spread the joy of the Islamic bomb. *From AP: *
TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's top leader said Tuesday that Tehran is ready to transfer its nuclear technology to other countries. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei made the comments in a meeting with visiting Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, who said last month that his impoverished, wartorn country was considering trying to create a nuclear program to generate electrical power. 
"Iran's nuclear capability is one example of various scientific capabilities in the country. ... The Islamic Republic of Iran is prepared to transfer the experience, knowledge and technology of its scientists," Khamenei told al-Bashir at their meeting.

Al-Bashir congratulated Iran for its success in producing enriched uranium for the first time, saying the achievement was a "great success for the world of Islam."


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Ah I didn't see it at the top. What is the source of the article itself?


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

*"great success for the world of Islam." *

Yea like they need nuke power :eyeroll: I don't think theirs a moron on the planet that believed that one.. for a sec. 

Their days are numbered now, the world of islam is about to be in a world of _hit! :strapped:


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Your bigotry and gusto towards war distress me.


----------



## hill billy

First it was Cowboys and Indians, now it is Cowboys and muslims...


----------



## hill billy

What are you talking about dude? Nobody said anything about that, keep up with the thread....


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> Your bigotry and gusto towards war distress me.





> "great success for the world of Islam."


The Islamic World should distress you more; they want to distroy you, while I spent my LIFE deffending your FREEDOM.


----------



## hill billy

They would rather us sit back and let terroist build strength and cause more chaos, that way they can bit*h about President Bush.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

I assure you that I want peace and safety for this country. More hasty and unnecessary military action will only cause more problems for us in the Middle East.


----------



## hill billy

> Well I believe it is safe to say Americans (or cowboys as you refered to them as) are responsible for the rape and destruction of the native peoples of America. Saying "cowboys and muslims" isin't too far off that path either.


Actually what I said was referring to a joke i heard the other day. Thats all,


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Let's keep this thread on topic instead of the Islamic sympathizers side tracking this discussion.


----------



## hill billy

> Yeah the rape of an entire people...ha ha ha...funny. Almost as funny as the joke you heard the other day involving the mexican, the asian, and the homosexual, right?


Actually it was, you were right for once, somebody get that man a prize


----------



## Gun Owner

No, that one was funnier...


----------



## hill billy

We hear both sides to the debate..


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

T3|-| F7U>< C4P4C41 said:


> You say muslim sympathizer like it is a bad thing. if you only hear one side of a debate, that isnt much of a debate is it?


Why do you always missquote me? Do you have ADD or what? I said


> Islamic sympathizers


 stop trying to interupt debate and discussion with your moronic tactics. :******:


----------



## hill billy

ABBK dont worry about him he is lost as a blind goose in a hail storm...


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

T3|-| F7U>< C4P4C41 said:


> Laugh. Last time I checked, Muslims and Islamics were the same.


Start another thread schooling us on that one then old weise one :bowdown:


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> Start another thread schooling us on that one then old weise one


That is ironical.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> Start another thread schooling us on that one then old weise one
> 
> 
> 
> That is ironical.
Click to expand...

Yea, so is "LIVE BY THE NUKE, DIE BY THE NUKE" :beer:


----------



## djleye

MT, Enlighten us....What would you do to end the problems with Iran. Would you do nothing, they have said that sanctions will cause them to pull out of the NNPT. I seriously want to know what your solution is. I have seen you bash other solutions so now is time to let us know what should be done!!!!


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

djleye said:


> MT, Enlighten us....What would you do to end the problems with Iran. Would you do nothing, they have said that sanctions will cause them to pull out of the NNPT. I seriously want to know what your solution is. I have seen you bash other solutions so now is time to let us know what should be done!!!!


WoW! that shut him up! Thanks for sharing that with us. Finding problems is ez, solving them is quite another!


----------



## Plainsman

> Finding problems is ez, solving them is quite another!


Isn't that the truth. It is the truth with many things in life. I have seen fun organizations wither and die with only one or two naysayers in the bunch. One hundred optimistic people and nothing happens because one man says it will not work. The earth is flat.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

> Historically, a martyr is a person who dies for his or her religious faith. Sometimes, it is for a different "noble cause" - like patriotically dying for a nation's glory in a war.


 So be it then, it's too bad people have to die because of the followings a few morons.

Jim Jones had similar followers and look what happen to them :dead:


----------



## Militant_Tiger

djleye said:


> MT, Enlighten us....What would you do to end the problems with Iran. Would you do nothing, they have said that sanctions will cause them to pull out of the NNPT. I seriously want to know what your solution is. I have seen you bash other solutions so now is time to let us know what should be done!!!!


I would sit down with the Iranians and ask them what it would take for them to give up the nuke program. If the terms would reasonable I would cut the deal there. If they refused, I would impose sanctions and warn of military action. I would then let them wither as their oil fields become useless due to their lack of refining capacity. If they continued, I would build a coalition with our classical partners and the UN, and remove their nuclear capacity by force.


----------



## hill billy

Why should we have to give them something? Set a deadline and if they are still trying to go forth then use force......


----------



## Longshot

MT, nice try but they have already stated that they would not stand for any sanctions and take it as a sign of retaliation. Also the UN does little to nothing. Why would you put the views of other countries above the well being of our own people. Is it just disliked for this country?


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Longshot said:


> MT, nice try but they have already stated that they would not stand for any sanctions and take it as a sign of retaliation. Also the UN does little to nothing. Why would you put the views of other countries above the well being of out own people. Is it just disliked for this country?


As I stated, if they sanctions did not work I would invade with the support of our classical allies. This country cannot afford to cast aside it's allies and start a war unilaterally again.


----------



## hill billy

What was the first war we started by ourselves? We have had our allies by our side from the beginning.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> What was the first war we started by ourselves? We have had our allies by our side from the beginning.


I guess I forgot about Poland...


----------



## Longshot

What are you talking about? We found out who our true allies are when we went into Afghanistan. Have you forgotten who backed us up then and now? There were many. France did not but they appear to be nothing but a spurn child. Russia would like nothing better than to see us fail and China goes without saying. The food for oil was more than likely their main reason. I would like to see our country leave the UN plain and simple. We fund a good portion of a useless organization IMO.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Longshot said:


> What are you talking about? We found out who our true allies are when we went into Afghanistan. Have you forgotten who backed us up then and now? There were many. France did not but they appear to be nothing but a spurn child. Russia would like nothing better than to see us fail and China goes without saying. The food for oil was more than likely their main reason. I would like to see our country leave the UN plain and simple. We fund a good portion of a useless organization IMO.


True allies support us when we are right and reprimand us when we are wrong. We were wrong. France and friends were smart for not jumping the gun with us on Iraq.


----------



## hill billy

What about Britain?


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> Longshot said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about? We found out who our true allies are when we went into Afghanistan. Have you forgotten who backed us up then and now? There were many. France did not but they appear to be nothing but a spurn child. Russia would like nothing better than to see us fail and China goes without saying. The food for oil was more than likely their main reason. I would like to see our country leave the UN plain and simple. We fund a good portion of a useless organization IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> True allies support us when we are right and reprimand us when we are wrong. We were wrong. France and friends were smart for not jumping the gun with us on Iraq.
Click to expand...

France will always side with whoever has the upper hand, and they are nothing but a bunch spies that can't be trusted.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> What about Britain?


What about them? Their military presence is not great enough to have a significant impact. They have 8000 in the South as compared to our 133,000.


----------



## hill billy

No matter how many are there, they are there....


----------



## hill billy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/ap ... 42_000.htm
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_e ... index.html


----------



## hill billy

What does it matter you wanted to know what they have done.


----------



## Longshot

Militant_Tiger said:


> True allies support us when we are right and reprimand us when we are wrong. We were wrong. France and friends were smart for not jumping the gun with us on Iraq.


True allies did come to our aid. They made the same determination as our President and almost every Congressman on both sides of the isle did. France has shown they are not a true ally. They constantly vote the opposite as us at the UN (no matter right or wrong) because of their dislike of us.

Typical BS to diminish our allies to being no help. How do you keep friends with this type of attitude? You worry about what others think of us and then demean our allies. Real nice! :eyeroll:


----------



## Longshot

T3|-| F7U>< C4P4C41 said:


> 2001? A bit weak, and outdated for my tastes. Don't just throw articles at me, I'd rather see recent information that I am unaware of.


We are currently talking about past events and you will not accept past articles. Way to be closed minded and through out anything that is contrary to your opinion.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> Typical BS to diminish our allies to being no help. How do you keep friends with this type of attitude? You worry about what others think of us and then demean our allies.


You claim that I demean our allies right after trodding on France.

Had we gone into Iraq with the support of Germany, France, etc we might actually be winning this war by now. They however made a smart move and stayed out of the conflict.



> They made the same determination as our President and almost every Congressman on both sides of the isle did.


Based on shaky evidence (many Congressmen did not see the same evidence as the president) that was played up to start this conflict. I don't blame them for voting for the war, in the lead up to the vote the president did his best to scare us into thinking that Iraq really was a threat.


----------



## hill billy

> We are currently talking about past events and you will not accept past articles


What past article have not been accepted?


----------



## kills 4 fun

> What past article have not been accepted?


Dude havent you started enough for the day?


----------



## Longshot

hill billy, look at the quote form T3|-| F7U>< C4P4C41 in my post. That is what I am referring to.

MT, I guess that is where we disagree I don't see France and a true ally. As you believe (I don't) our military is spread too thin. I do believe action is needed in other areas also, as in helping the African Union mission in Darfur. But yet I see no action by the UN. I believe France would not get involved because there is nothing in it for them and have not voiced their opinion on it. This has been blocked in the UN by Russia, China, and Qatar. Some of the same people you think we should appease to.


----------



## Longshot

T3|-| F7U>< C4P4C41 said:


> Longshot, I am accepting those past articles, but that is certainly old news. It seems as though time has progressed, our allied support has faded, and I believe this is why I really haven't read about much involvement of foreign powers in Iraq.


Understood


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## Militant_Tiger

> I believe France would not get involved because there is nothing in it for them


No country has even inervened in another except for out of self interest, and armed overthrow by a foreign government has never produced good results.



> This has been blocked in the UN by Russia, China, and Qatar. Some of the same people you think we should appease to.


We are not the world's police. There are a lot of bad people in the world, we can't do anything about it.


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## Longshot

In my opinion I don't think genocide should be tolerated by anyone and falls in the UN's interest.


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## kills 4 fun

Who said anything about genocide?


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## Militant_Tiger

Longshot said:


> In my opinion I don't think genocide should be tolerated by anyone and falls in the UN's interest.


I seem to recall we went into the first Gulf War using Saddam's genocide on the Kurds as part of the reasoning. How many times do you intend to try one person for the same crime?


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## Longshot

kills 4 fun said:


> Who said anything about genocide?


Do a little research on the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Darfur.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> I believe France would not get involved because there is nothing in it for them
> 
> 
> 
> No country has even inervened in another except for out of self interest, and armed overthrow by a foreign government has never produced good results.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This has been blocked in the UN by Russia, China, and Qatar. Some of the same people you think we should appease to.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> We are not the world's police. There are a lot of bad people in the world, we can't do anything about it.
Click to expand...

France was worried about their dealings with Iraq would be disturbed if war broke out in Iraq that's why they didn't want us in there hurting their INCOME.


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## Longshot

Militant_Tiger said:


> I seem to recall we went into the first Gulf War using Saddam's genocide on the Kurds as part of the reasoning. How many times do you intend to try one person for the same crime?


I thought the Left was the side of compassion. Compassion when it can buy them a vote. I guess tolerance comes more into play here.

Later, I caught a cold and it's kicking my rear! I need some rest.
Good night.


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## Militant_Tiger

> I thought the Left was the side of compassion. Compassion when it can buy them a vote. I guess tolerance comes more into play here.


I don't see what compassion has to do with double jeopardy.


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## kills 4 fun

:eyeroll:


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Yea, he's getting too wacky for me


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## Gohon

> and armed overthrow by a foreign government has never produced good results.


Tell that to the Japanese, Germans, and Italians.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Gohon said:


> and armed overthrow by a foreign government has never produced good results.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the Japanese, Germans, and Italians.
Click to expand...

Don't forget France :thumb:

Quote: 
Iran Ready to Transfer Nuclear Know-How 
Joining our "staunch ally in the war on terror," Pakistan, the Iranians also want to help spread the joy of the Islamic bomb. From AP:

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's top leader said Tuesday that Tehran is ready to transfer its nuclear technology to other countries. Ayatollah Ali Khamenei made the comments in a meeting with visiting Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, who said last month that his impoverished, wartorn country was considering trying to create a nuclear program to generate electrical power. 
"Iran's nuclear capability is one example of various scientific capabilities in the country. ... The Islamic Republic of Iran is prepared to transfer the experience, knowledge and technology of its scientists," Khamenei told al-Bashir at their meeting.

Al-Bashir congratulated Iran for its success in producing enriched uranium for the first time, saying the achievement was a *"great success for the world of Islam." *


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## R y a n

Alaskan Brown Bear Killer said:


> Gohon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and armed overthrow by a foreign government has never produced good results.
> 
> 
> 
> Tell that to the Japanese, Germans, and Italians.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't forget France :thumb:
Click to expand...

For Sale: 1 Excellent condition French rifle. _Never_ been fired, only dropped twice!

Price negotiable.

Contact J. Chirac, president of France


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

> "A lot of folks are still demanding more evidence before they actually consider Iraq a threat. For example, France wants more evidence. And you know I'm thinking, the last time France wanted more evidence they rolled right through Paris with the German flag." -David Letterman





> "I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France wouldn't help us get the Germans out of France." -Jay Leno





> "Did you see the new bomb the government came up with? It weights 21,000 pounds. The Air Force tested this bomb in Florida and the bomb blast was so strong at Disneyworld 25 French tourists surrendered." -Jay Leno


 :rollin:


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## Militant_Tiger

> Tell that to the Japanese, Germans, and Italians.


Those were not armed overthrows.


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## Gohon

> Those were not armed overthrows


Of course not......... we simply sent a polite note to Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini and asked them to kindly remove themselves from power so our non-armed armies would feel safe marching into their countries to shut their governments down. Nice try kid but anytime you march into another country during war the intent is to over throw that government. :eyeroll:


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## hill billy

NOT ARMED OVER THROWS HAHAHA :toofunny:


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## Militant_Tiger

Gohon said:


> Those were not armed overthrows
> 
> 
> 
> Of course not......... we simply sent a polite note to Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini and asked them to kindly remove themselves from power so our non-armed armies would feel safe marching into their countries to shut their governments down. Nice try kid but anytime you march into another country during war the intent is to over throw that government. :eyeroll:
Click to expand...

We did not remove said men and replace them with our own government as was done with Saddam.


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## hill billy

> We did not remove said men and replace them with our own government as was done with Saddam.


We never replaced Saddam with our Gov. We have never tried to place our Gov. in Iraq, what you are talking about is like what saddam did to Kuwait...


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## Militant_Tiger

> We never replaced Saddam with our Gov. We have never tried to place our Gov. in Iraq, what you are talking about is like what saddam did to Kuwait...


We removed Saddam and replaced it with one friendly to our state. We put Saddam into power in hopes that he too would be friendly and act as an ally in the area and you see how that turned out.


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## hill billy

you are right but we did not put our Gov. in place...


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> you are right but we did not put our Gov. in place...


The Iraqi government did not exist for some time. After they formed, we ensured that they were friendly to our cause. The Nazis did the same with the Vichy government.


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## hill billy

Yes but we never imposed our Government on them. We have been trying to get them to set up their own...


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> Yes but we never imposed our Government on them. We have been trying to get them to set up their own...


Do you really think we would have allowed them to form an anti-US government while we occupied them?


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## hill billy

> We did not remove said men and replace them with our own government as was done with Saddam.


Of course we would not let them build a Gov that is against us while we are there, but we never put our Gov in place over there.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Of course we would not let them build a Gov that is against us while we are there, but we never put our Gov in place over there.


How is allowing a friendly government take residence after deposing the former government different from forming a friendly government after the deposition?


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Militant_Tiger said:


> Of course we would not let them build a Gov that is against us while we are there, but we never put our Gov in place over there.
> 
> 
> 
> How is allowing a friendly government take residence after deposing the former government different from forming a friendly government after the deposition?
Click to expand...

WOW! You really HATE our government don't you MT?
Becarefull because HATE can make you do stupid things.


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## hill billy

We did in fact go into the country and over throw their leader but we never formally set up our Gov. there.


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