# What are your thoughts of this?



## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f ... DQLCS1.DTL

Jeff Given


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## jamartinmg2 (Oct 7, 2004)

I am all for freedom of speech, but it is a bit extreme to have this on display in a govt. building. Can't have the 10 commandments displayed in a govt. building, but this is ok, I guess. :-?


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

I am all for free speach, but the same people that put this artwork up would be the first to object if they did not agree with it or its message. I will not stoop to their level, let them send any message they whant. but when an opposing view point comes their way they better just shut up!!


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

Only in Kalifornia...

I agree, it is freedom of speech here (or so they rule). I am not for it in the states justice department though when we cannot hang the 10 commandments in a court room.

Just another example of the left making the majority succumb to the mercy of the minority.

Jeff Given


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Things have become very confusing in the past 20 years. The liberals scream freedom of speech, but are the first to curtail it through social and legal pressure. They try to demonize people with the term "that is not politically correct". When they loose the elections why do they still get to determine what is politically correct? I think we have shown in the past two elections that they are politically out of touch hence politically incorrect. That or they better change the terminology.

Then there is the hate speech. They were the first to initiate the speech police. Say something they don't agree with and they will find a way to make it politically incorrect, or hate speech. A bad word about Hillary is turned into hate speech, while at the same time they can call you a stupid F word Christian. No kidding, this is personal experience talking here.

So what is a hate crime? How many people are murdered by people who like them? I agree the people that drug that person behind their vehicle in Texas hated him, but you never heard a thing about the same thing happening to a white guy in South Dakota. Is it impossible for minorities to hate, or simply impossible to hate white people? We should all be judged by the same standards. I am not for special treatment for anyone, neither am I for less than equal treatment for anyone. I think we are all equal and should all receive equal consideration. We speak of equality, but none have learned to treat each other truly equal. The politically correct language from the left, as far as I can see, is simply lip service. Lets try it for real. It doesn't happen in the courts, it happens in the heart.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

I am drawn to the following excerpt from the story:



> "I don't know why we need to tolerate the cheap artwork of a gadfly with a world view that is so offensive to a majority of the people," said Karen Hanretty, a spokeswoman for the California Republican Party.


and this statement from Goose Huntin Machine earlier in this thread:



> Just another example of the left making the majority succumb to the mercy of the minority.


Both of these statements capture perfectly the failure of conservatives to understand the First Amendment and the concept of individual civil liberties. If you truly value free speech, you accept (and celebrate) the ability of all people to freely express their views. If you can accept and celebrate a free expression that absolutely disgusts you, then you are a patriot that understands civil liberties.

Majority rule will never protect free expression, but only the "free" expression that is supported by the majority.


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

> Both of these statements capture perfectly the failure of conservatives to understand the First Amendment and the concept of individual civil liberties.


Of all the Supreme Court Justices that have led opinions and dissents...man, you sure make it sound like you know what you're talking about while the conservatives have not a clue!



> If you truly value free speech, you accept (and celebrate) the ability of all people to freely express their views. If you can accept and celebrate a free expression that absolutely disgusts you, then you are a patriot that understands civil liberties.


You're joking, right? You mean to tell me that when our GI's were being beaten, spit on, and watching flags burn (that their fallen comrades died for in previous wars), that they celebrated it as another's freedom of "expression?" I call bull. My father was in Viet Nam. When he returned he was disgusted with what he saw. He, along with 4 other Supreme Court Justices, thought burning the flag could be out lawed and NOT protected under freedom of speech. Let me repeat that: *Four Supreme Court Justices wrote dissents on why laws prohibiting the burning of our flag should be upheld.* How's that for your freedom of speech theory? You are severely mistaken if you think that it is "as easy" as you think it is to understand the first amendment.



> Majority rule will never protect free expression, but only the "free" expression that is supported by the majority.


Again, what? I do not think I am understanding you.

Jeff


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> Quote:
> Majority rule will never protect free expression, but only the "free" expression that is supported by the majority.
> 
> Again, what? I do not think I am understanding you.
> ...


In your statement, you are saying that enough people think that a particular view should not expressed, we should be able to prohibit that view from being expressed. Using this line of thinking, if enough of us think that the art described in the news story is disgusting, we should be able to keep that art from being displayed.

Our Constitution protects all freedom of expression and religion, not just those that the majority supports. That's my point.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

You got a good point BigD. Too bad the folks on the left dont feel that way! They push their BS agenda like it was fact and then when an opposing view surfaces they label it racist or homophobia or hate speech etc etc. I guess the point the other fellas are trying to make and "correct me if i am wrong" is that points of view held by a minority are gurded by the left and ideas and beliefs held by most Americans are looked down upon at best. Hey what about the 10 commandments BigD why is this not allowed by the A Holes you seem to be defending.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Bore,

First of all, anybody that attempts to curb another's right to free expression is not a true liberal. I may disagree with another person's point of view, political opinions, or art, but I fully support their right to express themselves.

Second, nowhere is there a guarantee that one's free speech will come with a cost. If you express an unpopular opinion, post controversial art, or decide to burn a flag, you need to be prepared for ridicule and/or harsh feedback. Therefore, if somebody labels your speech as "hate speech" or they look down on your personal expression, that is also their right.

Last, you asked,


> Hey what about the 10 commandments BigD why is this not allowed by the A Holes you seem to be defending.


This topic is discussed in anther thread on this forum. In a nutshell, I see the issue as a debate whether the posting of the Ten Commandments in a courthouse is a personal expression of one's religious beliefs (which is protected) or the posting of a religious document in a public building because the majority of citizens adhere to those beliefs.

The First Amendment protects free speech and the free practice of one's religion. It does not protect the posting of a religious document in a public space by the citizenry as a whole because that can be viewed as an endorsemetnt that religion by the government.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

BigD

Anybody thst attempts to curb another's right to free expression is not a true liberal. "Guess we are all outta true liberals" it seems the left has created a template that one view is the norm and acceptable and shared by the educated. opposing views are extreem and shared by ******** and the uneducated. I also am aware of other peoples right to disagree with whatever my free speech enables me to say. But if I openly disagree with Affirmitive action I will be labeled as a racist by the minority. When in fact Affirmitive action is racism and should be called as such. So I would be expressing popular opinion and suffering ridicule!

Thank you on the ansewr you gave on the 10 commandments question thought. I actually got somthing from this forum today '' I learned something"


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