# Family members applying for buck tags.



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Anyone see this going on...applying for wife,grandma,etc to get a better chance to get a buck tag.

With the ability to get a doe tag even after the drawings,everyone is applying for buck tags.

Is there a way to change things so the real buck hunters have a better chance?

Maybe increase the cost of a buck tag to $30-50?


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## mallardhunter (May 15, 2004)

I know people around here do that just to get more deer tags. :eyeroll: I can't believe that, I think it is sad, it makes me sick. uke: It isn't fair to other people like me. Those people around here have lots of land and they leave there corn standing all year then the lander owner complains about all of the deer eating his crops. :eyeroll:


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## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

Any one hear of the guy that shot a buck and put his grandma's gratis tag on it and got caught. I guess the game warden had a hard time believing she made that shot from the nursing home.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Raise the tags to $60-$70 I would gladly pay that amount.


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## Rick Fode (Sep 26, 2004)

This has been going on as long there has been a deer season, those are the idiots that go out and shoot everything that has antlers and want you to tag it. I would like to see a buck tag set at 100$, yes it's kind of steep but you would see a lot more antlered tags available during the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th deer drawings and the idiot that gets 18 buck tags for every relative of his would get doe tags. This would also contribute to a heck of a lot bigger bucks and would no doubt help the already screwed up buck/doe ratio. The only reason we don't have mammoth bucks like Canada is they get shot way too early.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

At least increasing the cost would help eliminate some of those that figure they might as well apply since they can get as many does as they want.Plus those guys that put in family members names would think twice about doing it.

If we really want to increase the buck population....the best way is to allow ONE buck per year per hunter.This would make you think twice about pulling the trigger or bowstring and figureing you might as well since you have 2 or 3 buck tags for rifle,bow,and muzzleloader.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

I totally agree. For the past two years we've been out to the same area and have had great success filling out. Each time out, though, its amazing to see some of the hunters out there. I actually caugt a guy trying to cut the horns off a spike because he didn't want to use his buck tag!!! I didn't have service on my cell phone so I couldn't call him in, but it sure ****** me off :******: and I mean think about it...if he gets caught the warden is gonna see the horns were cut...it looks pretty obvious. Anyway, I think some people's ethics stink period. Those same guys that are screwing everyone else out of buck tags are the same people who are shooting at running deer at 300+ yards. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

:evil: To all whom it applies: :evil:

For Chirst's sake...its called common sense...maybe you oughta scrounge some up from somewhere before you go out this weekend and save us all a lot of trouble...uke:

Sincerely, 
Duckslayer

P.S. Deer don't wear blaze orange...remember that :eyeroll:


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## Powder (Sep 9, 2003)

Another way to stop people from buying tags for family members who don't hunt is to have a non-refundable fee attached to unsuccessful applicants. It could be $5 or $10 per tag. That way you wouldn't have to increase the actual fee for the license but some people would think twice about having Grandma apply for a tag she might not get. And if it doesn't stop people it would be a way for the G & F to raise extra money. It could even go to a dedicated fund such as to purchase PLOTS or something similar.


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## smalls (Sep 9, 2003)

I would rather go with powders idea of a non-refundable application fee equal to the tag fee (in this case $20) for buck tags.

To me its a much better idea than outright raising tag fees, which to me is the wrong way to combat the problem. It only opens the door to continue to increase costs and make hunting an aristocratic game.

Plus, I think we have bigger issues to combat than someone putting their wives/moms tag on a deer.


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## north14 (Oct 1, 2004)

You can't have big bucks unless you DON'T SHOOT THE SMALL ONES. Raise the buck tags to $100 and leave the doe tags at $20. Maybe then certain people would respect that buck tag and be a lot more selective before pulling the trigger. For God's sake if all you want is meat-- please apply for a doe tag. If you like hunting for big MATURE bucks then by all means apply for a buck tag.


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## Powder (Sep 9, 2003)

If you raise the fee to $100 and a guy draws a buck tag he might say "I've paid $100 for a tag and I'm going to fill it no matter what." He would be more likely to take a small buck towards the end of the season rather than not filling his $100 tag. With a cheaper tag guys are more likely to not use it on a small buck in the hopes that a big buck will walk by during the last few minutes of the season.

If you made doe tags cheaper maybe more people would be willing to take does (although I'm not sure about that). But the G&F won't do anything to decrease revenue. So, the other option would be to raise buck license fees to offset a decrease in the price of doe licenses. By doing this you would have fewer people buying buck tags and more opting for doe tags and the G&F would still receive the same amount of money.

I'll stop there because I think this is getting slightly off topic from where Ken was going with this.


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## north14 (Oct 1, 2004)

I know $100 sounds steep but it would probably keep Joe Blow from applying for buck tags for Grandma, Grandpa, Aunt Hilda, etc. and that is what Ken was talking about in the first place. Just my opinion.


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## smalls (Sep 9, 2003)

North14, you assume that all hunters that apply for a buck tag are trophy hunting, which they are not all doing. If you want to shoot big deer, work with a farmer to improve habitat. Try convincing your neighbors to practice selective harvest. It really doesn't take a big area of managed herds to impact the number of bigger deer. But don't force it on everyone.

License fees should not be used as a prohibitive measure to get people to not apply. As much as you don't want to admit it, there are people who cannot afford to pay $100 for a tag, but that should NOT prevent them from having the same opportunity as you do. (Yes, yes, you can go into what hunting actually costs and the tag is only a small portion of it, but for people who send a check in to the state in May, without knowing how much money they will have after buying groceries in July, it does become prohibitive).

The question to me is how many big bucks to we need? I've filled my tag with nice bucks 4 out of the last 5 years. The year I didn't fill was because I didn't hunt for family reasons. To me, the system ain't broke. There are plenty of "shooter" bucks out there. The true monsters are out there too, granted they are much harder to find. When I see hunts in highly managed places like Texas, I am not impressed when a guy shoots a 150" deer. It isn't uncommon, it isn't as special. But when a guy gets a 150" around here, I will pat him on the back and congratulate him.

I _would_ pay alot of money to hunt deer. I _would_ pay $100 for a tag. That does not mean we *SHOULD* make tags that expensive.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't think it has to go to $100 to work...an increase to $30-50 would probably do it.Right now the cost for basically unlimited doe tags is the same as the tougher to get buck tags...so people might as well apply for a buck tag.

Raising the cost might get some of those guys who apply for what are basically family tags to just spend the $20 and get another doe tag.

If a buck tag was $50...it would cost $150 to apply for 3 of them...where as 1 buck app and 2 doe apps would be $90.


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## Powder (Sep 9, 2003)

Smalls and Ken both make good points. I hunt in MN where we get buck tags over the counter and I'd kill for the system you guys currently have. You may not be seeing the number of 150 class bucks you'd like to but you shoot way more 110 to 140 class bucks than we do in MN.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

I think raising it $30 or so would be enough. It is just to easy for many people to afford it the way it is now. I don't want hunting to get out of hand (price wise) but I can't stand the way it is now. One guy in my hunting party does it...........his mom got a buck tag and I am stuck with a dow tag. Will I report him? no. But do I give him a serious piece of my mind for it? yes.

It is pretty frustrating!


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## north14 (Oct 1, 2004)

Smalls, no I am not assuming that all hunters that apply for buck tags are trophy hunters. What I am saying is I am tired of seeing certain large groups of hunters that apply for all buck tags for themselves and all of their non-hunting relatives and then going out and shooting every set of horns that they see, which by the way ends up being 99% one and half year old bucks. I see this year after year and these same people are the first ones to complain that there are'nt any big bucks around. DUH!!! Oh and by the way I too have filled my buck tags the last 3 out of 5 years with mature bucks and left my tag unfilled the other two years only because I did'nt have a chance at a mature animal. Just my opinion, but I think raising the buck tag fee would eliminate some of the things that go on.


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## smalls (Sep 9, 2003)

If you are truly seeing this activity, report it. That would stop it pretty darn quick. Remember RAP can be completely anonymous...

Many of the things people are complaining about here are illegal. Everyone knows it is going on, but at the same time, they are not reporting it. So instead of tackling the problem at the source, they prance around it and come up with unneeded, alterior solutions that do not require any advocacy on their part.



> In North Dakota there are several ways to report poachers.
> 
> Contact a game warden directly. Game wardens are stationed throughout the state. Find the nearest game warden here.
> 
> ...


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## Avman81 (Dec 9, 2002)

South Dakota has an interesting tack on deer licenses, that is that the 'buck' tags are for any deer. This gives the hunter the choice of taking a buck or a doe, should that hunter have a chance to take anything the last days/hours of the season.

I have not hunted in SD for many years now, but that is the way it used to be. And yes, I have had any deer tags and taken does. Yes, that is PLURAL meaning I have done it more than once.

Hunting is not about just harvesting an animal. It is about getting out into nature, with your family and friends, meeting farmers and ranchers who are taking care of Mother Earth. You get access by asking and getting to know these people.

Anyway, I got a doe tag this year, so maybe I am just eating crow. I am planning on hunting with friends and family, getting out into nature, talking with some farmer and rancher friends I have not seen in a while and having a great time. Perhaps I will even take my daughters again this year if they want to go. And maybe I will get lucky and get a chance to shoot a deer. If not, that is ok too.

That is the view from here.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

The any deer tag would not make any difference.Everyone would still apply for one same as now applying for a buck.Might as well..I can shoot anything.

There has to be some kind of disincentive to keep evryone from applying for a buck just because they can get as many doe tags as they want,so might as well apply for the buck tag or any deer tag.

I can't think of any other ways other than to make the buck tag more expensive than the doe tag or as powder says...a non-refundable application fee.


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## north14 (Oct 1, 2004)

Well said Ken, I agree with you completely!!! :beer:


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

Sorry guys, but I have to disagree! Ken probably should have just walked down the hall and talked, Guys, Ken and I work together! If I have to pay an app fee of $20, my muley buck tag would have cost me $120, don't really see the fair side of that. Also, why am I not entitled to a bow tag and a Rifle buck tag? I harvest only my deer, nobody elses, and I hunt for mature bucks. If I cannot find one, I harvest a doe or spike with my bow and a inferior buck with my rifle.

I don't agree with people getting tags for relatives just so they can shoot more bucks, but why punish everyone for someones stupidity? If you guys know these people contact the game and fish or our wardens and report them. A loss of hunting rights and a healthy fine will hurt more!

Don't punish all for somes errors!


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## smalls (Sep 9, 2003)

KEN W said:


> There has to be some kind of disincentive to keep evryone from applying for a buck just because they can get as many doe tags as they want,so might as well apply for the buck tag or any deer tag.
> 
> I can't think of any other ways other than to make the buck tag more expensive than the doe tag or as powder says...a non-refundable entry fee.


Ken, first, I do respect you and your opinion, however I disagree with it right now.

To me, the disincentive to purchase and use tags in other people's names should be the consequences that have already been laid out for those actions. Let's face it, this is poaching. You know people are doing it, but instead of taking the issue head-on, you want to back door it with license ffee increases.

We as sportsman have to take more responsibility in policing ourselves. If you are so adimantly opposed to this practice, do something about it! We know that the GnF cannot catch these people on their own, and that is why they created the RAP hotline.

You wouldn't have to turn in every person who did it. How long would it take for hunters in your area to learn that someone "anonymously" tipped a warden off about the illegal tagging of deer (read POACHING). My guess is that would scare alot of people from doing the same next year. Plus, it sends a strong message to youth that this is not and should not be an accepted practice.

Like I said, we have no right to complain if we aren't convicted enough to take steps to police ourselves. Raising tag fees is a copout that requires no effort and takes the onus off of ourselves as sportsmen. It's about time we shoulder that responsibility.


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

I agree with smalls. If you KNOW someone who is doing this, turn them in. Don't try to manipulate the system to solve the problem. Go to the root cause of it.

By the way, a lot of those people who apply for buck tags for all their family members consider themselves "real buck hunters".


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## Rick Fode (Sep 26, 2004)

I think Ken W had the best point, 1 buck for bow, gun, muzzleloader. But the problem with that is you would have to apply for everything. 100 bucks is a little steep but I would still pay it and if I hadn't shot anything and I really wanted the meat, you should still be able to shoot a an old dry doe. Those "armored divisions" make me sick, 18 tags and shoot everything that moves and just start tagging the dead deer until all tags are filled, really blows my mind. The key to bigger bucks is let them grow, we are all guilty of the worst thing for not letting bucks mature, hunting the rut!


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

It is unfortunate that we have people that do this. I don't know how many times I have been asked why I don't send in for my wife. My answer, "she doesn't hunt", their reply "so". :eyeroll: :eyeroll: The same thing happens with the elk, moose and sheep licenses. Many are sending in for wives and kids just to "up the chances" of drawing a tag. This results in party hunting which is ILLEGAL in ND, but we don't have enough wardens to enforce it and in many cases is pretty difficult to prove. Hittting them in the pocket book is probably the most effective way to stop this, unfortunately that solution is probably worse than the problem. It's mostly a result of selfishness and greed. If a guy has access to 2 or 3 buck tags he can shoot any buck to "save face"with his buddies and still be able to hold out for Mr. Big Buck.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

I dont think to many people do it for the elk and moose tags cause it is ILLEGAL to carry any firearm while helping push or what ever you are doing to help the person that has the once and a lifetime tag.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

With deer populations at an all time high, the best thing that we can do is harvest as many deer as we possibly can no matter what the sex. If the population were to take a nose dive then a more selective harvest will be appropriate. There is a ton of illegal deer hunting going on whether it be party hunting, illegal tagging etc. Anything illegal should be enforced but the few game wardens that we have they cannot do it on their own and need help to catch any kind of illegal activity no matter what species we are pursuing while hunting or fishing. With preference points there only a few rare exceptions where you will not get your choice for a whitetail at least every other year. Our system is a good system but a crook will always find a way to beat the system. The unethical hunter is a black eye on our sport. I'm sure we will start hearing about a season extension with all the corn out there but on the same line with all the posting of land I don't see where this will be a valid issue. I really respect and appreciate the landowners who pull their signs and open up acres to late season hunting. I havn't seen a lot of discussion on pulling of signs for late season hunting but it is certainly a great alternative to some of the issues discussed on this web site.


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## dieseldog (Aug 9, 2004)

Talk about a screwed up buck to doe ratio. My unit is way outof whack same number of buck tags given out as doe tags. what does that do for you. And not all of the doe tags are sold each year. It means that every buck with a visible antler is shot. D Leier tried to tell me last year at an advisory meeting that God puts out bucks and does at a 1 to 1 ratio so that is the ratio that is out in the field. When I asked him when I see a herd of 30 deer 29 does and 1 little buck he told me that for all those does there are bucks hiding around that I can't see. I think he should pull his head out of the sand. What do you guys think?


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

I think that it is hard enough for the GFD to manage the size of the deer herd. Now you want them to manage the size of the deer? Pretty difficult. They are a very good dept. but....


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## dieseldog (Aug 9, 2004)

I never said anything about the size of deer it would just be nice if they wouldn't kill off all o the bucks. The less bucks we shoot the more that are around so the chances of a bigger one are better. You can't tell me that a buck to doe ratio of something like 14 to 1 is healthy for the herd.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

It's healthy if you are a "buck!"


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Well, just got word (9:47 AM) that my hunting partner and his mom shot her buck today! Ummmmmmm or should I say she drove around with him for the morning. :evil:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

The GFD gives you the opportunity to go hunting. It is up to the hunters to decide what size deer they want to shoot. If you don't want a smaller buck just wait until next year and if you want the meat get a doe tag and help solve the deer problem. With a record deer population, the deer you want is out there somewhere. There are many things that go into shooting a big buck. One of them is luck and the rest of it is....


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

To get a tag for someone who will not go hunting or will not shoot a deer is flat out wrong. Enforcement if the difficult part of the equation to solve.


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