# A USAF's General's take on Iraq, the left...



## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

I read this today, long, but a really good read!!

This is something to boost your morale, to give you hope that we're not all wrong. And it comes from AN AIR FORCE GENERAL!!!!

IN CASE THERE ARE SOME WHO THINK ONLY MARINE CORPS GENERALS TELL IT LIKE IT IS THIS AIR FORCE GENERAL AND FIGHTER JOCK DOES NOT PULL PUNCHES.

Let the debate attract more of our citizens --Read history & try and get a grip on today's flood of info & qualification of sources. By a Marine Corps Three Star. LET'S BE SPECIFIC Jimmy L. Cash, Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret.

Due to the thunderous applause that I received from the far-left over the "I Am Tired" letter written by one of our troops in Iraq, I thought it prudent to follow up with one last attempt to be very specific about what I have observed and actually personally encountered during my 36 years of service to this Great Country. Unlike Bob McClellan, I will not continue to whine, twist and degrade our country's leaders on a weekly basis. Instead, this will be a one time input attempting to reach some of those who are confused by McClellan and his ilk's unethical rantings and give some insight through my personal experience as a professional military officer over the years. 
These examples are but a few. In real life there were many more which space and time will not allow.

As a young fighter pilot, flying F-4s in Vietnam, I was stopped in my tracks by the decisions made by Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara. I was young and naive, but even then I knew their daily interference was wrong and would not allow us to win this thing and go home. Decisions like not allowing us to strike enemy aircraft while still on the ground, keeping real targets off the target list, and allowing us to strike only rusted-out trucks made us basically a toothpick factory. However, the big one for me came the day I saw the President Lyndon Johnson on television, forcefully lying to the American people. I'll never forget the language, "I want to assure the American people that the United States of America has never, and will never, bomb or use force inside the borders of Cambodia". On and on he disavowed the reports that this was happening. I was amazed. Guess where I had put several F-4 loads of 750 pound general purpose bombs every day for the past five days. You guessed it, Cambodia!!! So much for Mr. Johnson. The only question in my mind was simply, "Was it just Johnson or was it the methodology of a particular political party?" I decided to delay answering that question until more experience was gained.

Years passed, and I ignored politics as much as possible, as a good military man should. Then came Jimmy Carter. Our young people don't remember 18% interest rates and 18% inflation, but I'll bet someone in your family does. 
That is one really bad thing Carter did for our country, but it is not the worst. During this period, I was an F-15 Squadron Commander, located at Langley AFB, VA.

Jimmy Carter and his democratic party stopped spare parts procurement for almost every weapon system in our military, and diverted the funds to social programs. The F-15 was brand new at the time with leading edge technology designed to provide air superiority anywhere in the world on a moments notice.

That was my job. I loved it, but guess what? In a two year period from 
1979 
to 1981, there was not one day when more that one-third of my assigned aircraft were flyable. It is amazing the lengths we went to in those days, cannibalizing parts, expending twice the time and energy to fix every little item, and still two-thirds of the birds were always broken because of no spare parts. Had this country faced a really serious military threat during that time frame, only Montana Hunters could have saved us. The military had some equipment, but it was all broken. Do you want to know the really bad part for me and the young fighter pilots working for me? Our flying sortie rate was so low that pilot proficiency dropped to dangerous levels. The accident rate tripled. That obviously was totally unacceptable, as we were losing expensive airplanes and highly trained young pilots at a rate comparable to losses seen in actual combat. All of a sudden, even a Texas Aggie like me began to see a trend.

Forward a few years to 1986. I am an F-16 Wing Commander at MacDill AFB, Florida, and Ronald Regan is president. His change in attitude and policy toward the military had time to fix the spare parts problem. We were flying 26,000 flying sorties per year out of MacDill AFB, my aircraft fully mission capable rate (FMC) was above 90%, the aircraft accident rate was below 
1.75 
per hundred thousand flying hours, fighter pilots were flying and proficiency levels were at an all time high. The United States Air Force was ready to defend this Wonderful Country. Proof of the pudding is simple. 
Look 
what the USAF, and the military in general, accomplished in Iraq during Desert Storm. And, they did it in less than 100 hours. Yeah, at this point I was starting to realize there was a difference in mentality between Democrats and Republicans, or should I say, the Right and the Left.

Then, came everyone's favorite---Bill Clinton. If there ever was an individual 180 degrees out of sync with the ideals and the values of the US military, it was Clinton. He was a known draft dodger, military hating, self absorbed, unspeakingly shameless and immoral individual, who the Left managed to elect President of the United States of America. Clinton's antics in the White House would have brought court martial, conviction, and Dishonorable Discharge had he been a military member. We still suffer oral sex on school buses, because the President told the world it wasn't real sex, and some of our children believed him. It took a lot of years, but now I became certain. There is a big difference in the right and the left on all fronts, and for the first time I started feeling angry and shamed that the majority of the American people were actually willing to vote for such an individual.

Sometimes, an abstract such as the following tells the story in very simple 
terms: Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden, Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, Nancy Pelosi, Barbra Boxer, John Kerry, Benedict Arnold, and the list goes on. America, wake up. Giving in to the likes of these people and Abraham Lincoln's prediction of destruction from within just may come true.

There is not a country in the world that can be considered a conventional military threat to the United States today. However, this country faces a new kind of threat---one that will not go away. It is a threat even more serious that WWII, because money, industry and technology will not defeat it. It is a threat of defeat from within. It is a threat of a faltering economy because of a lack of resources, or the even the simple threat of such a loss brought on by terrorism.

It is a threat created by the American people trusting the inept. It is a threat created by the people wanting change, and perilously believing that the left can successfully deliver that change. Have you seen anything from the left that remotely resembles an answer to the Iraq situation? Have you seen anything more than continued Bush-Bashing? Is that an answer? If there was ever a need for a strong, well trained military, it is now. THE LEFT HAS HISTORICALLY DISMANTLED OUR MILITARY IN THE NAME OF REDISTRUBITION OF WEALTH FAVORING SOCIAL PROGRAMS. We just cannot afford to let that happen now. 
If 
we do, the entire country will be bowing to the east several times a day within the next 50 years, maybe sooner.

Now a final thought meant to upset as many as possible on the far-left. 
As 
you might guess, I don't believe in political correctness. So, let's look at the facts, not far-left rhetoric attempting to empower the democratic party. 
Initially, I was not a George Bush fan. I am not even a Republican. I normally vote Republican, because of my total despise of Communism, Socialism and the far-left in this country. I am a Conservative. 
However, 
during his watch, I feel President Bush just happened to stumble upon the leading edge of the greatest threat this country has ever faced. 
Mistakes 
have been made, because of the newness of the threat. Overall, the President has done a superb job dealing the threat, and at the same time held off the constant ranting, raving, deceitful and malicious escapades of the far-left attempting to regain political power.

IF THERE WAS EVER A TIME THE COUNTRY NEEDS TO COME TOGETHER AND BACK OUR PRESIDENT, IT IS RIGHT NOW. WITHOUT CONCENSUS WE ARE EMPOWERING THE TERRORIST!!!! The far-left is totally absorbed with the power struggle and regaining control of Congress. They could care less about defeating the threat. It literally disgusts me to hear the constant disagreement with everything the President tries to do, all in the name of trying to make him look bad to the voters. Unfortunately, by the time the American people really appreciate how bad the far-left really is, it may too late.

What are the real facts? On the home front this country's economy is the strongest that it has been in my lifetime. Interest rates are as low as they were when I was in high school forty years ago. Inflation does not exist for all practical purposes. For you youngster's, please remember the Jimmy Carter comments? The Dow is approaching 13,000. Unemployment is nonexistent. 
Wages are at an all time high. Home ownership is at an all time high. 
Taxes 
have been lowered to an almost acceptable level. Because of the surging economy the deficient is under control and projected to go away far ahead of schedule. The far-left is rich beyond its wildest dreams, so Mr. 
President 
when are you going to "fix" all these domestic problems? Bob and George, give me a break!!!!

On the war front this country has not been touched since 2001. I remember being part of a seminar at the USAF War College in 1983 discussing the terrorist threat. There were some good minds at that table and a lot of disagreement. However, one common thought was that the US would be hit within the next five years. Answers to the terrorist threat were just as hard to come by then as they are now. Well, it took a little longer than the projection, but the attack occurred. For an old military guy like me, the main point here is that it has not happened again. We have suckered the bad guys into entering the fight somewhere other than in our country. To hell with political correctness. The President can't say this, but I sure can. I smile every morning when I get up and realize that one of our great cities has not been blown away. And, there is zero doubt in my mind that if we pull out of Iraq prematurely, that will happen within a short period of time after our departure. I don't care what you might think of President Bush personally. He has done the best he can with what he has, and this country is not smoking because of it. So, back off McLean and McClellan. You honestly don't have a clue about what you are talking about. Call me, and I will tell you what I really think.

I realize there are different points of view on war, and I do not believe the meek will inherit the earth, at least not in the next few hundred years. 
To those like McClellan, McLean, poor Eve Kyes and Sinowa Cruz let me say, "This is a strong country!!!" It has survived the uneducated thinking of the far-left before, and I'll just bet it will again. Regardless of who is President, the people will not tolerate mass explosions on a daily basis, as our good friends in Israel have been forced to do. To protect that position of power, even Hillary will be forced to become a true hawk. To guarantee a few more votes Ted Kennedy may be forced to begin supporting a strong military. One more attack on America might even wipe the giddy, 'I-am-finally-somebody' grin from Nancy Pe losi's face, and make her realize that is not about votes and personal power. IT IS ABOUT PROTECTING THIS GREAT COUNTRY FROM ENEMIES, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

Jimmy L. Cash, Brig. Gen., USAF, Ret. 
349 Jib Lane 
Lakeside, Montana


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

BLUE SIDE UP General! :beer:

http://www.air-america.org/About/About.shtml


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

Very Nice!
Agree 100% :beer:


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

Do you what Jane Fonda, Tom Hayden, Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Michael Moore, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, Nancy Pelosi, Barbra Boxer, John Kerry, and Benedict Arnold where blown up to bits by a terrorist would be called?

A good start.

So would the terrorist be a terrorist, Or a hero at that point? :gag:


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## dcnoble (Jun 12, 2007)

It is pieces like this that rob conservatives of any shred of credibility. This article is jam-packed with lies and falsehoods-what we military types like to call a target-rich environment.

To begin with, it was not Johnson that ordered the illegal bombing of Cambodia, but Nixon, yes, a Republican. Thus, it was Nixon, not Johnson, who lied to the American people. In fact, his administration was taken to court by (drum roll) a Congresswoman and four Air Force officers, represented by the ACLU to halt the illegal bombing. Here is his exact quote:

"There are no American combat troops in Cambodia. There are no American combat advisers in Cambodia. There will be no American combat troops or advisers in Cambodia. We will aid Cambodia. Cambodia is the Nixon doctrine in its purest form...." - President Richard M. Nixon, November 1971

By the way, we did not use F-4's to bomb Cambodia; we used B-52's. Yet another problem with this story.

Yes, the economy was in crisis while Carter was in office. But it was precipitated by the OPEC oil crisis in 1973 (while Nixon was still in office). Additionally, productivity had stagnated during the 1970s. The Federal deficit had grown, long before Carter took office. Carter inherited a bad economy and did not make it better. I think it was the Japanese kick the *** that got U.S. industry to focus more on quality and customers, as much as presidential leadership, that turned around the U.S. economy in the 80s.

As for military spending, that increase began two years before Carter left office. I think it is interesting that the General mentions the year 1986, because that is when spending began to taper off again.

He also fails to mention the largest draw-down post WWII occurred during the Bush I presidency, when Dick Cheney was Secretary of Defense.

Calling Clinton a draw-dodger when the current commander in chief effectively dodged Vietnam service is mystifying. Why do conservatives continue to defend the preferential treatment Bush received to get into the Guard, and then his failure to report for duty for two years? By the way, are you going to call Dick Cheney a draft dodger too? He got five educational deferments. Rumsfeld-never served. Wolfowitz-never served; both coasted on deferments.

Here another great lie: "THE LEFT HAS HISTORICALLY DISMANTLED OUR MILITARY IN THE NAME OF REDISTRUBITION OF WEALTH FAVORING SOCIAL PROGRAMS."

Really? What programs is this guy talking about? Education. Que Lastima? Surely not Medicare or Medicaid-since I bet he receives Medicare. Hopefully not Social Security since he probably gets that too. If he does enjoy his Social Security, Medicare, and public education for his children he should thank a God-less liberal.

"On the home front this country's economy is the strongest that it has been in my lifetime. Interest rates are as low as they were when I was in high school forty years ago. Inflation does not exist for all practical purposes. For you youngster's, please remember the Jimmy Carter comments? The Dow is approaching 13,000. Unemployment is nonexistent. Wages are at an all time high. Home ownership is at an all time high. Taxes have been lowered to an almost acceptable level. Because of the surging economy the deficient is under control and projected to go away far ahead of schedule."

During the nineties, when that Democrat Clinton was in office, the economy experienced it fastest post-war expansion ever. Crime rates dropped nationally. Ten pregnancies dropped, DWIs dropped. Unemployment reached historic lows. Home ownership in America reached historic highs. When Clinton left office there was a budget SURPLUS.

For the past 7 years Bush has cut taxes while pursuing a ruinous war in the Middle East. Consequently we now have a multi-billion dollar deficit. Crime is once again on the rise. The housing market slowed more than a year ago. There is a record number of foreclosures. Real wages, what the little guys take home, has remained stagnant. The gap between the richest Americans and poorest has not been this large since 1929. The economy barely registered any growth for the first quarter of 2007. This guy is not so big on facts is he? But then, he probably cannot be bothered with the truth either.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Dcnoble

I get a kick out of your name. There is very little nobility in DC - Washington that is.

The first part of your post was very interesting. You made statements that were entirely new to me, and that I would have to spend some time to see if they are right. Then you went on to dispute some that I know to be entirely true. Even as a child I watched the news. I have watched presidents since Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower, and most of the liberal presidents and congressmen do not respect our military. Many have repeatedly weakened our military through the budget process. 
You also conveniently forgot to mention the stock market beginning it's downhill plunge while Clinton was still in office. 
Your mention of the despicable ACLU supporting anyone makes me question those they support. Also, I don't think I will thank a "Godless Liberal" as you call them for anything. Especially their constant attack on Christianity. Now some think maybe if we would read the Koran in school we would understand Muslims. How convenient. They falsely say that separation of church and state is in the constitution, it is not. Then they conveniently forget that mantra of theirs when it comes to the Koran. Try reading the Bible in school and see who complains to the school administration a liberal or a conservative. Try reading the Koran and see who complains. AND you think this article destroys any shred of credibility republicans have? Although I don't see republicans or democrats having much credibility, I do see a credibility gap between liberals and conservatives. That would be I see conservatives with credibility and a handful of liberals with credibility, but the vast majority with none. You started off good, but couldn't pass up the temptation to throw in some things absolutely wrong. That didn't do your credibility any good, but we will see where it goes from here. 
Who supports our military right now? The liberals would like us to think they support the military, but it is a transparent facade.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

The F-4 was also used as a bomber it is posible that it could have been used in Cambodia.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

8th Fighter Wing-Kunsan Airbase

The wing continued combat in Vietnam until mid-Jan 1973, in Laos until 22 Feb 1973, and in *Cambodia* until 15 Aug 1973. F-4 augmentation forces were released in Sep 1973.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Whistler31 said:


> 8th Fighter Wing-Kunsan Airbase
> 
> The wing continued combat in Vietnam until mid-Jan 1973, in Laos until 22 Feb 1973, and in *Cambodia* until 15 Aug 1973. F-4 augmentation forces were released in Sep 1973.


Would you happen to know when they started actions in Cambodia. At this point it looks like dcnoble is 50% right. I would like to know if he is 33% right, or 66% right. Not so much to dispute dcnoble, but to know the truth for myself. F-4 were used, how about B52's? Who started the action Johnson or Nixon? I suppose I could find the answers, but I may take a flogging if I don't mow the lawn or do something "constructive". I always though talking with you guys was constructive. I like it, it must be constructive.


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

Did a search for f4 use in cambodia and came across this site.

http://www.ultimatesniper.com/View_News ... SHRIVER%3A

Its a pretty awesome read in itself but, about 3/4 of the way through it mentions not wanting to use F4s in cambodia. But that doesnt mean they were NEVER used as tactical bombers over the course of the campaign. If the General says he did, IMO, he did. Probably the kind of thing we will never be able to confirm or deny by a undeniably credible source (ie: government documentation, strike logs, wreckage).

Mainly I just wanted to share the site and story with you guys as I was pretty impressed, (it really doesnt answer any questions). Im thinking I will see if Barnes and Noble has the book this afternoon.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

"The March 1973 dry season saw the Khmer Rouge trying to take Phnom Penh, and closing all major highways into the Cambodian capital. The situation for the Lon Nol government was critical with the interdiction of the Mekong River, the Major supply artery from South Vietnam. The defense of the capital and the reopening of the river required direct American air support to the Cambodian Army. Marine Aircraft Group 15 continued operations until April, flying missions assigned by the 7th Air Force for daytime bombing and strafing controlled by airborne controllers. This involved the* F-4's of Marine Fighter Attack Squadrons VMFA-115 and VMFA-232, flying 12-20 sorties per day.*"

http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org/


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Thanks guys. So it was the strategically right thing to do at the time, and something liberals whine about now. Do I have that correct?

I would like to keep the cursor from http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org/


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

dcnoble said:


> It is pieces like this that rob conservatives of any shred of credibility. This article is jam-packed with lies and falsehoods-what we military types like to call a target-rich environment.
> 
> To begin with, it was not Johnson that ordered the illegal bombing of Cambodia, but Nixon, yes, a Republican. Thus, it was Nixon, not Johnson, who lied to the American people. In fact, his administration was taken to court by (drum roll) a Congresswoman and four Air Force officers, represented by the ACLU to halt the illegal bombing. Here is his exact quote:
> 
> ...


 :bs: GO FISH! Go do some more home work!


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## RogueCowboy (Nov 17, 2007)

His premise that the ENTIRE MIDDLE EAST will shut off the US oil supply if we withdraw from Iraq before we kill the remaining 1000 Al Qaeda Terrorists in Iraq is a BIG JOKE!
When did any military Sargent, Lt, Capt, Col, or General EVER surrender the US to 1000 terrorists. 
He, Bush and Cheney should get a motel room in the red light district and have a love fest.
There is NO WAY any future American President would &64k things up so bad that Middle East oil would be shut off.
This JERK is just one more WAR MONGERING IDIOT that has trained his whole life for one thing; WAR. He will not be happy until Iraq, Iran,N. Korea, Syria, Nigeria, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia are the 51, 52, 53, 54, 56 and 57th States of America.j


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

RogueCowboy said:


> When did any military Sargent, Lt, Capt, Col, or General EVER surrender the US to 1000 terrorists.


THat is the whole point!! Militarily, we can win in Iraq; we are winning NOW!! Let some muffin-head from the Left get in the White House, and all those gains will have been lost. The Democrats have wanted us to loose ever since 2001, so that Bush will look bad. Why else do you think there have been 40 attempts by the Left to lock in a Retreat Date (some might prefer to call it a withdraw date).


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Why else do you think there have been 40 attempts by the Left to lock in a Retreat Date


There can be no question now that they want to lose. It is more important to them to make Bush look bad than a secure America. There is greed for many things, but the liberals are driven by greed for power. Power to chance America into something I never want to see. No, I'm not going to wear a skirt, I'm not going to kiss you , and God isn't dead.

Liberals laugh at the old bumper stickers that said God, Guts, and Guns made America, but it is a lot more accurate than to think Abortion, Appeasement and the ACLU will keep America free.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

> Militarily, we can win in Iraq; we are winning NOW!!


We could say that with any country. What if we invaded England, 6 months from now we could say we are winning....because militarily we are the strongest nation in the world.

Who are we beating BTW? Seems the Shiates and Sunnis are fighting each other and taking us with them.



> It is more important to them to make Bush look bad than a secure America.


Secure from whom? Our enemies were in Afghanistan and probably now in Iran. Bush never said we were going to Iraq for opperation "Iraqi Freedom". Were the terrorists on the planes from Iraq?

Let's talk about security here on the homeplace. Bush and his pentagon buddies have been steadily shutting down AF Bases along the northern tier of the US. Even though the Grand Forks AFB is the closest route to Iraq, yet the pentagon is going to move those bombers south (some are already gone). Their criteria was: open air space and distance to Iraq. hhhmm ND and open air space? no brainer there. Shouldn't they be moving more bombers here if we are the shortest distance to Iraq? Less money on fuel, less time in the air for our pilots, no conjestive air ways, etc..

How about our Happly Hooligans in Fargo. If the plane wouldn't have crashed in Pennsylvania on 9-11 it would have been our fighters that would have shot it down. They were the first to arrive even in their outdated F-16's. Yet Bush and the Pentagon wanted to ship that squadron south with the AFB.

I am going on memory here, but I believe they have shut down 14 northern AFB's across the US Canadian border and yet we are told that the next terrorist plot will probably come through our US Canadian border. Make sense guys and gals?

I am not saying the liberals have the right answers. Obviously they have some huges issues and stances that are about as whacked out as can be, but let's not put the halo around the Republicans heads so quickly.

We can't just blame liberals for any problems we have. Both sides are to blame. I agree plainsmen with liberals being greedy for power. They haven't done $hit since they took over in Congress. I am about sick of them asking for some investigation on anything and everything. How about just doing something for the good of people? :eyeroll: Yeah, when pigs fly.

The more and more military I speak with tell me "this is Bush's war". Why would they say that?

Neither side is a hero right now IMHO.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

dcnoble, you are attempting to use two facts together to dispute one and support the other. Yes in 1969 Nixon did in fact turn out B52's loose in Cambodia with carpet bombing and actually did so without congressional approval and tried to keep it a secret. Nevertheless it is also fact that Johnson was using F-4's with small payloads to bomb supply routes inside Cambodia when he claimed he wasn't. Nixons actions were made public and blasted in congress. Johnsons action slid into history with is not running for a second term.



> Were the terrorists on the planes from Iraq


That old argument really gets old. They weren't from Afghanistan either so whats the point. According to the 911 commission 15 of the hijackers were Saudi nationals. Also according to the 911 commission Afghanistan was their main home base and training grounds but Iraq had ties and supported the hijackers with money, training and at times sanctuary. So I guess we should have attacked Saudi Arabia.



> Shouldn't they be moving more bombers here if we are the shortest distance to Iraq


The shortest distance to Iraq is now inside of Iraq and at Diego Garcia. I don't think rapid deployment to a threat from Iraq's mighty super power has ever been a priority but on the other hand with Russia, well you figure it out.

I would also remind you the last round of base closures are the result of a program started long before Bush became president. A panel (Base Closure and Realignment Commission) makes the recommendations and congress can only vote up or down with no additions or subtractions. The President and his staff have no control over the matter other than recommendations to the panel as does congress. The final recommendation from the panel cannot be changed.


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

The War is a Disaster & Fiasco.
YOu dont need to be smart to know this..

$1 trillion to date
No end in sight
Baghdad violence is down but is spreading outward. Most of Baghdad is still not secure.
Turkey Invades N Iraq..another mess.

4.5 Million Refugees, only 25k have returned
5 Million Orphans
1,200,000 Innocents dead
Of course some violence is down! 15 % of Populace is dead or gone.

40% of Proessional class has left the nation. 
When you factor this disaster, ON LIES, & while we have OPEN BORDERS, it is just amazing..Occupation is Anti American

There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.
--Sun Tsu

All wars are fought for money.
--Socrates

10/31/2007

McCain: Iraq Pullout Bad For Israel

by Adam Dickter
Asst Managing Editor

In a message to the majority of US Jews who oppose continued U.S. presence in Iraq, AZ Sen. John McCain told the largest umbrella group, Conference of Presidents of Major US Jewish Org., that a "surrender" now would harm Israel's security."

No money $ for Levee repair, Fire Prevention, Water-drop aircraft, Bridges. 
Gotta spend it on the war! Gotta send it to Israel, in EUROS, as requested!!"


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

"Of course it's About oil, we Can't really deny that."

"We've treated the Arab world as a collection of big gas stations, Our message is: Guys, keep your Pumps open, prices low, Be Nice to the Israelis & you can do whatever you want out back..
We shouldn't assume for even a minute that in the next 25 to 50 years the US military might be able to come home."

-- US Army General & THE former Commander of the US Central Command Forces (CENTCOM), John Abizaid


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

uglyman said:


> Of course some violence is down! 15 % of Populace is dead or gone.


That's why it's called a "war", Einstein! You kill those who are trying to kill you first. They keep fighting, we keep putting warheads on foreheads! Besides, a majority of the insurgents are Iranian, Syrian, and Saudi. THe average Iraqi WANTS us here. I got a chance to talk to one of these insurgents last week here at the hospital, and i asked him, why, if you know that you will get caught or killed, do you insist on fighting? He asked if I had commanders, and when I said yes, he then asked if I followed orders, and when I said i did, he said, "exactly." There is no massive uprising against us, there is Al Queda, fighting not just the US, but ALL freedoms! We are here so that you can rest peacefully, ranting about politicians' decisions from the comfort of your own home without worry and without having to wonder if that van parked outside your favorite Starbucks is laden with explosives.

Merry Christmas.


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Correction: A War ON LIES. Einstein.

Safer & drinking Lattes?
How about protecting the OPEN US Border being invaded, & Not fighting a Guerilla Counter insurgency started After we invaded on false intel & Lies.

Less than 5% of Iraqui insurgents are foreigners. We are fighting those that dont wish to be occupied. And divided. There was peace for 2000 years there with Christians, Sunnis & Shiites. 125,000 Jews lived in Iraq until emigrating to Israel in 1948,

The average Iraqui wants us out. 85% worth. the other 15% are Lying.
No one is better off, there is no functioning Govt.

I have video of an Iraqui American Woman & doctor, testifying to the Senate about life there with their relatives.


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

First off, the failed intelligence was due to intelligence agencies that were gutted under the Clinton Adminitsration. Secondly, I am here, talking to Iraqis, and NO, they do not want us to leave. Saddam was the worst thing to happen to these people, and we ended his reign.

And yes, there was peace here, only because the very hint of resisting the Hussein regeim was to bring death on one's household. The Iraqis fighting are the holdovers, the ones that ARE worse off since their man has been deposed.

When you come over here for yourself, and stop listening to what CNN is spoon feeding you, then you can make an informed opinion about what the locals do and do not want.


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Some of those in US Intel..dual citizen Israelis & Neo Cons, were criminals with records (Iran Contra etc), indicted & prosecuted in other administrations but have wormed their way back into US politics, switching sides.

CNN? I havent watched TV in 4 years. Zioganda, I call it..

I do correspond with Iraquis, my home is a boarding home for those Iraqui children awaiting care at Childrens Hospital. 
Im well aware of the crisis. 
There is a waiting list to get in the hospital & not enough homes for the children once here..

Saddam..give me a break. Now your doing charity work right?
4.5 Million refugees, 5 Million orphans & 1.2 million dead, mostly innocents AFTER the US Invaded. Iraq is home to 26 Million people. 
Youve met all of the locals & they give you their blessing right?

Those Iraquis would slit your throats in a minute & you know it. 
The peace is shaky at best, leaders were bribed before Petreus made his report. 
Al Sadr a US Puppet. Peace can change to violence there in a minute as you well know. Insurgents have read Sun Tsu, they wage a non linear strategy. Its a calm before the storm..is all.

We are Occupiers, not liberators, & Im not fooled with you sugarcoating a fiasco.
$1 trillion to date and no functioning Govt & not 1 street secure. Turkey is now in N Iraq, swords rattling with Iran & Pakistan is ready to crumble. They do have WMDs..

Try it on someone else, wont fly with me..Im not big on war pimps. Hazard pay must be good..

Hey did you hear of the US Colonel "Suicided" in Iraq..
http://judicial-inc.biz/col_strange_suicide_of_col.htm


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Friday, December 21, 2007 by Foster's Daily Democrat (NH)

Former CIA Analyst Says Evidence Abounds for Impeachment
by Gretyl Macalaster

PORTSMOUTH - The evidence for impeachment of the president and vice president is overwhelming, former CIA analyst and Daily Presidential briefer Ray McGovern, told a room full of people at the Portsmouth Public Library Monday night.

McGovern, who provided daily briefings for former presidents Ronald Reagan and George H. W. Bush as well as other high ranking officials during his 27 year CIA career, said he has witnessed a "Prostitution of his profession" as the Bush administration Lied to the American people about the evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

"Don't let anyone tell you the President was deceived by false intelligence &#8230; they knew," McGovern said.

For the next 40 minutes, he relayed a series of events leading up to 9/11 which illustrate the President's desire to go to war with Iraq well before 9-11, that reliable CIA evidence showed that Iraq did Not have weapons of mass destruction and was presented to the administration and the "facts were fixed" in order to legitimize the invasion.

"The estimate which said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction was prepared to the terms of reference laid down by Dick Cheney in a speech on Aug. 26, 2002. It was the worst estimate of intelligence and came to the wrong conclusions, but it was designed to do that," McGovern said.

McGovern has been an outspoken commentator on intelligence-related issues since the late 1990s and since 2002 has been publicly critical of Bush's use of government intelligence in the lead-up to the war.

The recent report detailing Iran's stopping its nuclear weapons program four years ago, is an example of how the administration knows it can no longer hide such "incontrovertible evidence" from the American people in the fallout from the misinformation they received on the Iraq War, McGovern said. He added that he had almost given up on believing their were people still working at the top with a conscious and enough people at the top willing to let analysts do their job and accept independent analysis.

In late 2005, Congress requested an estimate on Iranian nuclear capabilities.
"My former colleagues got really good, incontrovertible evidence that the program, such as it was, has been ordered stopped since 2003. The evidence was such that not even Dick Cheney could deny it. That's why the report was not produced until three weeks ago," McGovern said, adding that the Bush administration has been putting "spin" on their rhetoric ever since.

McGovern also addressed the reasoning he believes is behind the threat of war with Iran. He said he believes Israel thinks they have a pledge from the White House to deal with Iran before Bush leaves office and relayed the story of the U.S.S. Liberty, which was attacked by the Israelis in 1967 and covered up by the United States. Thirty-four U.S soldiers were killed and about 170 were seriously injured.

"It seems to me, that on June, 8, 1967, Israel realized it could literally get away with murder," McGovern said.

McGovern said he also believes Congress will be of little help. Recently House Speaker Nancy Pelosi admitted to learning about torture and illegal eavesdropping in briefings, but said it was her understanding when briefed, that she will not share the information with anyone else, including other members of the House Intelligence Committee.

McGovern called Pelosi out on violating her oath to uphold the Constitution "against enemies, foreign or domestic" by allowing acts in violation of the Constitution to continue by not saying "diddly."

He added that although an impeachment bill currently in Congress is gaining more support, Democrats are shying away because of the influence of lobbies and political analysts telling them to "wait it out" until the election.

Charges in the impeachment bill sponsored by Dennis Kucinich, are very detailed and "as good as any," McGovern said, and referenced the illegal eavesdropping of American citizens. He added that the President has "admitted" to this "demonstrably impeachable offense."

"The argument for impeachment is overwhelming," Randy Kezar of Kingston said after the event. "Impeachment is constitutionally required."

McGovern's visit was co-sponsored by NH Codepink, Seacoast Peace Response, NH Peace Action, NH American Friends Service Committee, Seacoast 9-11 Questions Group, NH Veterans for Peace and Witness for Peace-N.E.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

We lost our village radical a year or so ago. I thought we were going to have to go through the next election without one. Thanks for showing up.

I only have one question. Do you think Israel has the right to exist?


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

Is he a radical because he doesnt agree with your stance? This section is pretty much one big radical village.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

uglyman seems to like bringing this up so I thought it might be good to let folks know a little about it.

For what it's worth:

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a U.S. Navy signals intelligence ship, USS Liberty, in international waters about 12.5 nautical miles (23 km) from the coast of the Sinai Peninsula, north of the Egyptian town of El Arish, by Israeli fighter planes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967. It occurred during the Six-Day War, a conflict between Israel and the Arab states of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq. The Israeli attack killed 34 U.S. servicemen and wounded at least 173. The incident remains controversial. Israel, and various U.S. government agencies, maintain the attack was an error, but American survivors of the attack, and others, dispute this.

The Israeli and American governments conducted multiple inquiries into the incident, and issued reports concluding that the attack was the result of a mistake, caused by confusion among the Israeli attackers about the precise identity of the USS Liberty and the fact that the United States Ambassador to the United Nations had publicly announced to the world at the U.N. that the United States had no ships within 350 miles of Israel and the battle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Israel has a right to exist, But so too Does Palestine, which has been Wiped Off of the map, literally.

Land Was Palestinea, Syria Palestinea, & British Mandate of Palestine for 1948 years, even had their own currency.

Im not a fan of Israel, the largest recipient of Foreign Aid- being all the size of NJ, the largest SPY ON America, Attacked our USS Liberty & lied about it until caught red handed, burning US sailors alive with Napalm & also the world leader in UN Violations at 69 to Iraqs 14.

Not big either on homing a group, whose ancestors are Asian Mongols from Khazaria Asia, 7th century Converts, who make up 80% of Israeli population, while they committ terror & Apartheid. ie Jewish Only Roads, Settlements, Schools, Marriages & License plates.

I think the world would be better off without Israel but if they can make Peace & a 2 state solution then Im for that..dont see that happening-Israel wants land & resources, Not Peace. They have no interest in Peace.

Great map of Israel and the land they have stolen, 1948 to present
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/maps.html#1948


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Now your doing the same thing our old village radical did. He hated Israel, didn't believe the Holocaust was nearly as bad as the genocide against his people the Armenians. He was also pro Palestinian. These are the reasons your reminded me of him.

Also he would use very biased sources. Your using a source that is biased also, including Palestine Remembered, the UN, PASSIA etc. If your serious look for a source that isn't Arab, Israeli, or pro either. Some sources are worse than nothing because they are intentionally misleading. There are many sources within the United States that are either pro Israel or pro Palestinian.

If you go back far enough you will see that Israel doesn't even have control of their historic borders yet. Your going back less than 100 years and saying this land belonged to Palestine. Go back further and see who it belonged to before. I would say that once someone starts a fight with you and looses you keep the land. I don't think Israel should have given anything back after the six day war. The U S should have stayed far away and let Israel do whatever they wanted to the trouble makers. You keep prodding a wasp nest and your going to get stung. That's what happened in the six day war and the people doing the prodding deserved anything they got.

It's not that I Am as much pro Israel as I am anti trouble makers. It's like in the old western movies I loved it when the trouble makers got their dues.


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

The land has always been Palestinian
Jews came from Egypt, remember Moses?
They ethnically cleansed the Caananites, modern day Palestinians. They didnt keep God's covenant & were exiled.

Control?
Hell they built an Apartheid Wall. Have Jewish Only Roads, Settlements, Schools, Marriages & License Plates. Law this is. Christians are treated like 3rd class citizens there.

Your friend brought up a good point.
It is the ADL & AIPAC, 2 Jewish organizations, that are Deniers of the Armenian Christian Holocaust. 3 Million Christians were Slaughtered & they deny it. Talk about Hypocrites...
Worse, look at Russia & the Bolsheviks. They Killed off 65 million Christians.Churches destroyed, But synagogues were spared. Ever hear of word of it? Why?

Borders? 
Israel preemptively struck & stole land, violating International Law, still to this day UN 242. 1967 was a Preemtive war for Israel..
Oil was $3 a barrel in 1973 Before Nixon Airlifted F16s, tanks & advisors to Israel, who was getting their *** kicked. Overnight & subsequently, Oil went to $32 a barrel.
20 Million barrels per day we use in the USA. Cost to US consumer? 
$1.2 Trillion per year for that act of kindness. 
President Jimmy Carter inherited this hyperinflation. THis is what you dont get...
80% of our Navy costs goes to protecting Israel in/around the gulf. 
Loans they never pay back, arms & technology they steal & sell adds up to over a trillion in US aid.
Pollard te Israeli Spy, sold 800k Classified documents to Israel, who sold them to China. He is Now a registered citizen of Israel & in prison, I predict Bush will give him a pardon.

The trouble makers are the Israelis. 
Jews lived there in Peace with Muslims & Christians for 1948 years. 125,000 Jews lived in Iraq until 1948. 40,000 Persian Jews Still live in IRAN! By choice..
This is all nonsense. Israel was chosen over Argentina & Kenya for its proximity to world Oil. Oil will pump from Mosul Iraq to Haifa Israel. 
Iran & Sudan are next on the Neo Cons list, if goes to plan. But you can bet US taxpayers wont see lowered costs. 
And their Hatchlings will be safe on scholarship at Yale, while our kids do the dying..


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

uglyman said:


> Jews lived there in Peace with Muslims & Christians for 1948 years.


Huh ... please expound on that just a little for me??


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Uglyman do you think Europeans should leave Australia, South America, Africa, and North America. Most Americans are four to eight nationalities, do you have suggestions where we should all go. Jewish people were driven from their homeland years ago, and in 1948 after WWII changed many borders they were a nation reborn. 
When wars occur borders change. The world map doesn't look like it would have 5000 years ago. I know you don't agree with these changes so what would be your solution?


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

Uglyman is an obvious and blatant anti-Semite. I personally am done with him and his blather. I can find hundreds of sources online that advocate anything you want.

He is using the war in Iraq as a steping stone to get to his real goal, the demonification of Israel.

Simple fact is, he isn't over here, never was over here, and probably will never be over here. I have talked to both Iraqi AND Al Queda. I have seen the "mayhem", and I can tell you boys, CNN doesn't report the good news, because body bags sell papers.

Anyways, I am through, headed over to the huntin' and shootin' side of the house to read some real good news. :beer:


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

27 Bishops equate Israel's actions to Holocaust

A group of German bishops tour Palestinian Auth, say Israel Behaving like Nazis

Eldad Beck 03.06.07, Israel News, YNET

BERLIN - "On Sunday morning he was still in Israel and the rhetoric was considerably different than the one elected by the German Bishops' Conference once they crossed over in to the Palestinian Authority on Sunday evening. Israel has the right to exist, but this right cannot be realized in such a brutal manner," 
===============================================

"Anti Semite" is a Smokescreen used by Israelis to run their Concentration Cmaps in Gaza. Nothing more, HAGFAN, Im disappointed you tried to play that card, as its without merit & lacks credibility.
One can critcize US Foreign policy & not be called anti American. OR the Mafia and not be Anti Sicilian. Very weak.

Jews have lived in Peace in the Middle East with Christians & Muslims alike until Isreal was created in 1948. 
125,000 Jews lived in Iraq until 1948. 
40,000 Persian Jews STILL Live in Iran. By Choice, in Peace.

This business of oppression is nonsense. 
We've homed European Jews, Ashkenazi Jews from Khazaria, Asian Mongols & 7th century CONVERTS, the 13th tribe. Not the Sephardic 12 tribes.. They have committed Genocide, ethnic cleansing & Apartheid & threaten world peace. And the biggest recipient of US foreign aid.
Many Jews oppose Zionism as well. Nice web site called jewsagainstzionism. Rabbi Weiss here discusses on Fox.





Just today, Bhutto was assasinated in Pakistan, wouldve been the next democratically elected PM. 
Glad my tax dollars go to supporting Creepy, Brutal Thug dictatorships that assasinate political rivals, regardless of gender. This assumes the CIA & Mossad werent behind it, I think they were.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Ugly ... you are indeed a great propogandist.

However, anyone with half a brain and a little knowledge of history can see you for what you are.

I like how you spout numbers and references along with docile terminalogy.

Tell us about "People of the Book" ... What is a "dhimmi"? ... How about "jyzie"?

Sure it is possible for some to live in Islamic Society, but outside of the Islamic religion ... assuming you sufficiently subordinate yourself to the Islamic rulers and enforcers.

I'm glad to see you have good leads on the Benazir Bhutto assasination. :eyeroll:


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Propogandist? Interesting.
My in law is Lebanese Christian, I can well support my claims. 30% of the Lebanese population is Christian. Ive attended the Maronite Rite Mass on occasion, & know it well.

Christians & Jews in Muslim nations, pay a 5% annual tax in exchange for living there in peace, & not having to be a member of the military amongst other things. 
This tax excludes women, monks, children & the poor generally BUT muslims Also pay the equivalent tax or tribute as a tithe..Please dont be selective or you might be called the propogandist.

Yet here in the USA, we pay a 40% aggregate tax to an Illegal Federal Reserve. Which is Neither federal, not a reserve. 
Federal Tax, State tax, local tax, FICA, Soc Sec, Sales tax, Gas tax, Sin tax etc etc.

A person of the book is a christian, a believer in & of the bible.

Interesting in Islam, Jesus is revered & mentioned more as a prophet than any other prophets, but in Judaism, Jesus is labeled a "Bastard" and his mother a "Whore". Catholic Cardinal George of Chicago vehemently protests this terrible blaspheme & reported in Britains most respectable source, as many Jews are unhappy with our return to the ancient Latin Mass & prayers for the Jews.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... sus106.xml


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

News from this morning ... for what it's worth.

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2007/s2127770.htm

Oh and I notice you mention the 40,000 Jews living in Iran today ... but fail to mention the 40,000 who left after the revolution in 1979 and I might add left with little more than what they could carry with them, as they left valuable possessions behind ... just like the 40 reported this morning.

Gosh that 5% sounds pretty good ... maybe we ought to consider Islam right here in America

I understand many folks actually like what Aiman Al-Zawaheri, Usama bin Laden and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and others like them stand for.


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Well, why was there a Revolution in IRAN?

Was it because the CIA installed another Thug dictator, the Shah, who Brutalized his people for decades? When the Iranian people finally said Enough! & Revolted, the USA then froze Billions in Iranian assets in our banks. Iranians Then took US hostages..

Israel still owes Iran Billions in unpaid Oil purchases from that time.

Sure, some Iranian Jews left at that time, there was alot of bad sentiment.
But they had lived there over 2000 years in Peace.

The Jewish leadership in Iran slams this report regarding the 40 Jews emigrating to Israel, bribed tens of thousands of dollars to leave..still leaves what 39,840 Jews left in Iran?
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast ... =hpmostpop

I agree 5% taxes is better than 40%, given the leadership the USA has. An Oxymoron is what American Leadership is.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

uglyman said:


> *Was it because the CIA installed another Thug dictator, the Shah, who Brutalized his people for decades? *


The last shah of Iran took power in 1941. The CIA was formed in 1947. How could an agency install a leader six years before it was formed? And the predecessor to the CIA, the OSS (Office of Strategic Services) wasn't around until 1942. Something is not jiving.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

goldhunter470 said:


> uglyman said:
> 
> 
> > *Was it because the CIA installed another Thug dictator, the Shah, who Brutalized his people for decades? *
> ...


uglyman why is it you think America is the villan, and the Muslims are the good guys. Do you get up every morning and apologize for your existence because your American (I assume) and leave a carbon footprint?


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

goldhunter470

Even more noticable is he seems to think Jews, Christians and Muslims have been living together in peace for 2000 years.

Oddly, Mohammed died in 632 and Islam wasn't really up and rolling for a while after that. So maybe 1200 years??

And to assume even 1200 years of peace would require us to ignore "The Crusades" which I will offer as proof that the European World had enough of Isam and it's coersive tactics upon them.

Anyway, it does appear facts and discussion aren't a priority for uglyman.

He has called me ignorant already, so it seems to me as long as he can spout data and call folks ignorant then proceed to dismiss information passed back his way ... he is a happy uglyman.

Plainsman ... The guy clearly has a huge problem with Jews as well. I really have little desire to discuss much with this fellow. Seems to have little in the form of discussion to offer ... just a mountain of talking points that deny and evade many realities documented in history and that we see happening around us as we type.

So let him be happy and ugly


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Gents,
It isnt that hard if you will put down your remote & READ. Mathematics isnt hard either leaast addtion/subtraction..
I pulled this off Wikipedia, Im not a huge fan, as its owned by James Wales, a former XXX Pornographer & Rabid Zionist, also controlled by the CIA, but I agree with their assessment of Iran..

"In the 1953 Iranian coup d'état, the United Kingdom and the USA orchestrated the overthrow of the democratically-elected administration of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq and his cabinet from power. The support of the coup was carried out, using widespread bribery[1] in a covert operation by Kermit Roosevelt, Jr. for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). 
According to a report on the BBC, Britain, motivated by its desire to control Iranian oil fields, contributed to funding for the widespread bribery of Iranian officials, news media and others. The project to overthrow Iran's government was codenamed Operation Ajax (officially TP-AJAX)."

As I stated, the USA Put the Shah into power..& he was brutal.
And its simple physics: For every action, there is an opposite & equal reaction ie Blowback or repurcussion.

Yes, Peace in the Mid East..There were the Crusades, more to do with empires stretching than religious differences-1098 I think was the first-Pope Urban. Youre obviously ignorant of them as well. Christian Crusaders killed other christians in the Holy Land, they were mercs for hire. Muslims Fought alongside CHristians as one, against the crusaders fairly often. Empires Not religion. Same as war. Terrorism is about Politics, Not religion. Aside from the 2 crusades & a few uprisings, there has been much peace there for 2007 years..

"Arab Palestinian Christians and Arab Palestinian Muslims lived side by side for the past 1400 years, and for anybody to say that the Arab Palestinian Christians have been persecuted recently by Muslims is absolutely another big Lie, like the big Lie that spoke of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq."
-- Riah Abu El-Assal, Christian Bishop of Jerusalem

My issue isnt with Jews, though Im no fan of the vile, Supremist Talmud but with peace. I desire it for all. Seems to me, Israel is The Cancer in the Middle East.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> My issue isnt with Jews





> Seems to me, Israel is The Cancer in the Middle East.


So what are you saying, that you have no problem with the people, but you do have a problem with the nation? 
You know if Palestine is really interested in peace I would suggest they stop the suicide bombings. If they are truly the underdog then they are extremely stupid to keep poking the big dog.

From what I hear coming from their own mouths on TV I have no sympathy for the Palestinians. Just recently they said they wanted to talk peace while at the same time still killing people. Actions like that stir sympathy within me, not for Palestinians but for the Jewish people.


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Those that resist a Condemned Occupation arent Terrorists, but Rather those that Occupy a nation Illegally, & house 400 Palestinian children in their Israeli dungeons, & have made millions of refugees, are the terrorists.

Im sure Palestinians would stop any suicide bombings, if youd give them laser guided missiles & tanks to use against the Israelis, who continue to steal their land, water, cut off power & electricy, snipe their children-head shooting them for sport, etc etc

"Children have been Shot in 40 other conflicts I have covered-Death squads Gunned them down in El Salvador & Guatemala, Mothers w/infants lined up & Massacred in Algeria, & Serb snipers put children in their sights in Sarajevo-but Ive Never watched soldiers Entice children like Mice into a trap & Murder them for Sport like in GAZA"

Pulitzer Prize NY Times photojournalist on GAZA 
Christopher Hedges- HARPERS Magazine


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> but Ive Never watched soldiers Entice children like Mice into a trap & Murder them for Sport like in GAZA"


I don't know what to say uglyman, but I think you have lost touch with reality, or you are using reverse psychology in an attempt to gain more sympathy for Israel. I think you have a lot of pent up hatred for Israel. I don't know if it is a religious thing or what. Sympathy for Muslims, and Palestinians in particular is ok, but hatred for those who wish you no ill is a little disturbing. I think how and why you got to this point would be very interesting.


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## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

This might help to prove the point Chris Hedges was making on his Gaza assignment for Harpers, granted he's only covered 40 war conflicts on as a Pulitzer Prize photojournalist. Pictures & video generally dont lie.

My in laws award winning website, I recommend it.
http://www.crescentandcross.com/

These were 2 British journalists Head shot by Israelis, while wearing flak jackets & press passes. No worry, the Israelis were Not charged.
http://judicial-inc.biz/two__british_re ... assina.htm


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## tranquill (Aug 2, 2008)

Many Israeli officials argued against the Iraqi war. Like Shoher here: http://samsonblinded.org/blog/iraq


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

tranquill said:


> Many Israeli officials argued against the Iraqi war. Like Shoher here: http://samsonblinded.org/blog/iraq


Just curious but since Obadiah Shoher is a pen name for a person that refuses to identify who they are, do you have anything to show this person is or was a Israeli official?


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

uglyman,

After perusing this thread, I can affirmately state that "your name describes you perfectly".

Jim


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