# Commercial Hunting: The truth by Valerius Geist



## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

There's a great article in the June 2004 North Dakota Outdoors. Its an interview with Valerius Geist, one of the great big game biologists. He talks about the problems with commercial hunting. He talks about fair chase and the North American hunting traditions. He explains how commercial hunting is artificial and contrary to all the great things about hunting. He describes the emptyness of wildlife going to the high bidder.

Could someone send it to Kyle Blanchfield and his buddies?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Is it on the net if so please post a link. Thanks


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## nilsmaster (Sep 26, 2003)

bob,

It's not online. Perhaps I can retype it and post but might not be the appropriate thing to do given all the copyright mumbo jumbo.

I started to read it last night but got a phone call and never went back to it. You know, I gotta vent right now. Why does the damn mailman have to FOLD my magazine to get it in my mailbox? I'm trying to collect the damn things but all of mine lately have a damn crease in them. Anyways, um...errr...yeah. Can't wait to go fishing...about 5 hrs and counting to go!


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

Originally that story was printed in The Bugle, the RMEF Journal. Last time I checked it was not archived yet, but it may be now.

An excellant article.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Nils tell your post man theres a fifth of Bourbon for him at Christmas if he doesn't fold them anymore. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
Tsodak, I look online for it thanks if I find it I'll post a link


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## nilsmaster (Sep 26, 2003)

bob,

When it does come on you can find it here: http://www.state.nd.us/gnf/ndoutdoors/n ... rsmag.html


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Just subscribe Bob, it's a good magazine. If you peanut farm, you can afford it. oke:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I should I used to and I liked it! Bugle that is :lol:


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Some quotes from Geist:
(CWD)


> My early concerns about the direct links between game farming and wildlife disease were hardly soothsaying. The evidence was clear all along that we were headed for disaater....





> North American sportsmen and women must wake up to the realization that in the end, its going to be either captive elk behind fences, to be executed by the wealthy, or free roaming wild elk hunted by all who so choose following the the cherished North American hunting tradition. There can be no compromise.





> The first rule of North American wildlife management and democratic hunting tradition upon which it depends, is that wildlife "ownership" must remain exclusively in the public domain, as a public resource, with no private sector interferance.





> There is a tendency afoot today in North America to follow the European model where wildlife became playthings for the wealthy and powerful. Under such a system, game is protected from the public in favor of the privilaged few.





> This is serious business. Under the American model it doesn't matter if you are the Emperor of China; if you want to hunt or fish, you must follow the same rules as the poorest amongst your servants. It is the law. It is the American way....And what does game farming give us? Canned hunts where the only consideration is one's ability to pay.


Only a few quotes of many great ideas. The thoughts expressed there encompass the exact turmoil of hunting issues in North Dakota today.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Quote:
> There is a tendency afoot today in North America to follow the European model where wildlife became playthings for the wealthy and powerful. Under such a system, game is protected from the public in favor of the privilaged few


This is what I see happening to people that are called sportsmen, the sport will get to expensive to play. We need to stay away from calling something as nessacary as hunting a sport, it is not a game and wildlife are not playthings. It's much more serious than a simple game.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> Last time I checked it was not archived yet, but it may be now


. 
While going thru the archives of North Dakota Outdoors I see this article was *not* retained. Humm........ possibly the copyright?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

http://www.rmef.org/bugle/pages/04JF/geist.html

Pretty good stuff! The North American Model is about a third of the way through the article.


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## KB (Dec 1, 2002)

TB:

I have actually read many articles from Mr. Geist and think he has some valid points about big game, especially Elk in the Mountain states. As far as big game goes lets remember that in ND only 1% of the gun tags go to nonresidents and the number of nonresident bow tags remain stable. You can't tell me that the wealthy are controlling big game hunting in ND. Yes we have some commercial deer guiding in our state but this is a small-scale activity. Lets take a real look at who controls deer hunting in ND. I would say 75% is active farmers and ranchers, and 20% private ownership from in-state and out-of state land owners, many that own land for hunting, a number that will grow in the future, and 5 % G/O (not counting non-posted land). Now it is easy to blame G/O but I see more and more in-state ownership for hunting purposes. How do you control this, and should government control land sales? I do not support government intervention on how and why land should be sold unless there is a serious threat to the general public (hog farms, land fills, etc). I am not involved in game farms, and I will not pass judgment on those that do on their own land in a legal manner and with the best implementation of fair chase possible. Mr. Geist talks about the needs for all wild game to be the sole property of the public, with this in mind how can many on this site preach the public trust doctrine but push for limits on how many and what segments of the public can access this public resource? There will always be a commercial side to hunting. It always has been and always will be. I spent the last few days in Medora with my family and read the history of how Teddy Roosevelt came to ND and why. If Teddy came to ND today and did what he did then many on this site would label him a non-resident, land buying so he can hunt sob. TB: Let me know when we have a shortage of deer and if you need a place to hunt. I have an 8 year record of allowing almost 100% if those that asked permission to hunt deer on over 5000 acres.

Kyle


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Kyle,
There is discrimination by residency all over the country for all kinds of game animals. It is usually done by lottery. The difference is that the lottery is conducted by the state. While only certain individuals may have a tag, the system by which they may recieve the tag is well regulated and fair across the board no matter how much money you have or who you are.

I have no problem with landowners who control access to their land. My problem is when laws are introduced to try and make it so the landowner or guide/outfitter automatically gets an allotment of tags and they may choose who gets them. If a landowner gets a tag automatically and it is non-transferable I have no problem. What I do have a problem with is when people are automatically given a tag and they may transfer it to another. That is simply management of a public resource for the profit of a few, not management of the resource for the public good.

If a person draws a tag and they want to pay to access land that is fine by me. I do however have a problem when people may purchase a tag outside of a lottery system to hunt wild game animals managed by the state. The opportunity to recieve a tag should be fair across the board when we are talking about publicly owned game animals which are managed by a public agency.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Kyle

The reason we ***** about numbers of nonresidents is because people like yourself who are making money from hunting can never get enough.
Of course you agree with Mr. Veist on the big game part you don't market big game yet. And to act like we should all feel treated because you let deer hunters on is so BS and to sit back and act like you've done no wrong
cmon kyle it works both ways. As long as the guides keep locking up all the land all of us ******** will be ready to fire back.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> My problem is when laws are introduced to try and make it so the landowner or guide/outfitter automatically gets an allotment of tags and they may choose who gets them


Since I'm a outsider looking in, let me ask a dumb question. What are the requirements in ND for a person to become a outfitter/guide?


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## oatsboy (Mar 29, 2005)

imo,it boils down to privte property and the rights of land use that goes with it.ownership though should not give someone the right to profit from the sale of a puplic resource.wheather hunting leases or kick-backs of some form or another. on the other hand commodities on legal game farms are entirely privitly owned and would not even exsist if the owner did not propagate them for that sole porpose.
hunters have a choice to use this service or not.it may not be mine or alot of your cup of tea,but it does fill the bill for many people in the,shooting dog sports .is it so evil that it should divide us as hunting enthuiest?
anything that keep's
wildlife habitate from becoming a parking lot or a mini-mall must have some redeaming value.
living here i lived through the changes you guys are all worried about and fear will ruin your hunting traditions .i have no answers on how to stop change or ,what the future holds due to them, but possesion is 9\10 the law,if you own land you hold the cards to controling your future.


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