# Cutting and crowning a rifle barrel



## usmarine0352

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Want to chop the barrel of a deer rifle for two reasons:

a.) Maneuverability

b.) Weight

This rifle will be used in really thick woods for stalking and I want the maneuverability and weight to a minimum.

I know that having a gunsmith cut and crown the barrel won't make it tremendously lighter, but it will help.

I also know that going to 18 or 19 inches won't make it tremendously shorter either, but it will help.

*

1.) How much will this effect bullet performance on a .30-06 and .270?

2.) Would 19 inches not effect bullet performance dramatically, but an 18 would?

3.) Would one of these calibers take to having a shorter barrel better then the other?*

Note: I'm 5'3, 118lbs. So I'm not some one really big guy like 5'8 175lbs and can carry a rifle all day. I get tired. (I know, I know, just go to the gym. LOL)


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## iwantabuggy

Neither one would perform well at those short barrel lengths, IMHO. I DEFINITELY would NOT do it.

Q: How much would it affect bullet performance.
A: A lot. I cannot say for sure, but I'd guess you'd have less performance than the 30-30.

Q: Would 19 inches not effect bullet performance dramatically, but an 18 would? 
A: There would be little to no difference between 18 and 19 inches on either the 270 or the 30-06.

Q: Would one of these calibers take to having a shorter barrel better then the other? 
A: No.

Sounds to me like you need a new gun. For the situation you described, I'd recommend this: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firearms/ ... 895SBL.asp

It is short and relatively light weight.

Or, since you are a small guy, if you think the recoil will be too much (and it would be signicant if you use the heavier loads and bullets) you could go with this: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/ ... 1894SS.asp

It is roughly the same length and even lighter than the above with less recoil.

They also make blue'd models, but I prefer SS.


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## Sasha and Abby

I would NOT cut it either... it will be waaaaayyy too loud to ever shoot comfortably with out hearing protection. Seriously... :eyeroll:


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## usmarine0352

Sasha and Abby said:


> I would NOT cut it either... it will be waaaaayyy too loud to ever shoot comfortably with out hearing protection. Seriously... :eyeroll:


I would only use it for deer/elk hunting. So, like one or two shots a year without hearing protection.

For sight in at the range, I'd have hearing protection.

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## iwantabuggy

What'd you say? Speak up. I can't here you. oke: It would be incredibly loud. One of two shots a year could do severe damage to your hearing.

But if you want to ruin a perfectly good barrel, suit yourself.


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## usmarine0352

iwantabuggy said:


> What'd you say? Speak up. I can't here you. oke: It would be incredibly loud. One of two shots a year could do severe damage to your hearing.
> 
> But if you want to ruin a perfectly good barrel, suit yourself.


Have people who said that the rifle will actually get extremely loud seen this in person or assuming this because of the shortened barrel?


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## iwantabuggy

I haven't personally seen it because I haven't shortened a barrel.....

But think of this way. Compare a 22LR rifle to a 22LR pistol. The difference in noise is very noticeable. Now a 30-06 or 270 is loud in the first place, so if you shorten the barrel.....WHAM! It will get really loud. I don't have to shorten one to see the wisdom in S&A's point.


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## Plainsman

My newphew had a Remington model 7 in 243. It had an 18 inch barrel. That rifle was louder than my 300 Win Mag. They have since gone to a 20 inch barrel.

If you have to have a short barrel you will do better with the 308 than the 30-06. I know you didn't ask about it, but if you need something in that power range with a short barrel. The 308 with less powder capacity will work better than the calibers you mentioned. Providing you use heavy bullets, and the faster powders for those heavy bullets. There will be much velocity lost, but not as bad as with light bullets. Someone else will have to tell you more about powders, but I think the faster powders will develop peak pressures sooner, and have less muzzle blast than the slow powders in a short barrel. Personally, I would not even think of below 20 inches.

If I had to pick I would say the 30-06 with 180 gr bullets would be better than the 270 with 130 gr bullets. I know a fellow who claims his Remington model 7 in 7-08 is wonderful with a 20 inch barrel.


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## Bernie P.

I disagree with the others.You will lose about 50 fps per inch removed.It will be a little louder but not overly so.The shorter barrel will be somewhat stiffer resulting in increased accuracy and of course crowning is always an improvement/protection.The velocity loss won't hurt at all in heavy cover and be a handling benefit under such conditions.Good luck!


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## striped1

Got to agree with Bernie P.

You won't lose too much velocity and will likely be more accurate.


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## alleyyooper

Personally I would not ruin the resale of a rifle when you can buy one about like your talking about.

I have a Remington Model 7 in 7mm o8 with the 18 inch barrel. I don't find it to be any louder than my Remmington 700 mountian rifle useing the same ammo.

Not saying to buy a Remington model 7 just pointing out my fellings about the noise.

As far as the gym goes, screw that. Do the hunting fittness thing.

 Al


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## Sasha and Abby

usmarine0352 said:


> iwantabuggy said:
> 
> 
> 
> What'd you say? Speak up. I can't here you. oke: It would be incredibly loud. One of two shots a year could do severe damage to your hearing.
> 
> But if you want to ruin a perfectly good barrel, suit yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> Have people who said that the rifle will actually get extremely loud seen this in person or assuming this because of the shortened barrel?
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...

Buddy,
I can say with ABSOLUTE certainty that a 16-18" barrel will make you want to climb in a hole and hide. I have a .223 Bushmaster Shorty that is PAINFUL to shoot. Now, lets extrapolate on this... imagine a much larger caliber with much more powder capacity moving at roughly the same speed. 
Go ahead and cut the barrel down - it will quickly become your least favorite gun...


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## Bernie P.

Al so long as the gun's in good shape it shouldn't ruin the resale value but adding another gun to the collection IMO is always the best option :beer: .


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## alleyyooper

Way I see it a gun that is supposed to have a 24" or better barrel that has been cut back to 18",19" or 20" is no longer in good condition. 
Many gun buyers that know their stuff will tell you the same.

I also agree if ya have the money buy a new/use rifle set up the way you want.
If money is a problem try a trade.

 Al


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## usmarine0352

Bernie P. said:


> I disagree with the others.You will lose about 50 fps per inch removed.It will be a little louder but not overly so.The shorter barrel will be somewhat stiffer resulting in increased accuracy and of course crowning is always an improvement/protection.The velocity loss won't hurt at all in heavy cover and be a handling benefit under such conditions.Good luck!


I've heard the same thing, but it was 35 fps. I've also heard 50 fps, so 35-50 fps is negligible in the long run.

I've heard that it wouldn't be tremendously louder either, otherwise I wouldn't think about doing it.

Just getting a lot of contradicting info.

I guess if a .308 has a barrel that short, how much worse can a .30-06 be?

Resale value isn't a big deal for me, since I expect this to be the last deer rifle I probably buy for a long time. I've had my last deer rifle for almost 15 years.

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## Plainsman

I have about 600 shooting mags since 1972, and I thought I needed to clean up so I ditched about 500 of them last year. Now I wish I had saved the article in one of those magazines. I can't remember the caliber, but a fellow took a rifle with a 24 inch barrel then cut one inch off at a time and chronographed. He also recrowned so he could shoot a group. Sounds like a lot of work to me.
Anyway, I will try get this right. He cut off until he got all the way back to 18 inches. The first inch he cut off was only about 40 fps. The second inch was about 50 fps, and the last inch from 19 to 18 was about 120 fps. Average was about 75 fps. So 75 X 6 equals 450 fps lost. This increased loss as the barrel gets shorter gains further credability when you look at what handguns loose. When you go from a six inch revolver to a four inch in 357 mag expect to loose over 200 fps. Considering the low velocities of this round 200 fps is a very high percentage of velocity lost.



> I've heard that it wouldn't be tremendously louder either, otherwise I wouldn't think about doing it.


That is caliber, bullet weight, and powder dependent. As I have stated my nephews 243 was much louder than my 300 Win Mag. The only thing I have shot that came close to as loud was my Thompson Center Super 16.



> I guess if a .308 has a barrel that short, how much worse can a .30-06 be?


A lot. I don't want to talk about specific loads, because I don't want someone to try a load I quote. However, just simply looking in my latest manual I see the same powder in a 308 and a 30-06 with 150 gr bullets. Max load in the 30-06 is 59 gr and gives 2862 fps. Max load in the 308 is 48 gr and velocity is 2794 fps. 
Velocities are close because it takes less powder to reach SAMI spec in a smaller case. This is why the 300 WSM gets the same velocity as the old 300 Win Mag with less powder, and in a shorter barrel. Since pressures increase more rapidly and less powder means it takes less barrel length to burn muzzle blast is reduced significantly. Another advantage is less recoil will be generated by escaping gasses. Lower volume of escaping gasses equals less noise. 
You will find many happy people with short barrels. The old 350 Remington Mag had a short barrel. People often like the 7-08 in Remington model 7. Some hate short barrels, some like them, and neither understand each other. Often it's the caliber making the difference.


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## Bernie P.

How long is the barrel now?If it's 22" cutting it down to around 18" or so I can see doing so but if it's 24+ I'd have to agree with Al.Leave it as is and sell it or just buy another.


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## iwantabuggy

Bernie P. said:


> How long is the barrel now?If it's 22" cutting it down to around 18" or so I can see doing so but if it's 24+ I'd have to agree with Al.Leave it as is and sell it or just buy another.


 :huh:


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