# So long Fighting Sioux



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

MAYVILLE, N.D. -- The state Board of Higher Education decided today to retire the UND Fighting Sioux logo and nickname and directed Chancellor Bill Goetz to so advise UND President Robert Kelley and urge him to begin the transition.

The board's president, Richie Smith, brought up the logo issue at the end of an all-day meeting, noting that as the board convened this morning the state Supreme Court affirmed a district court ruling that struck down an injunction that had been sought by several members of the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe.

Smith noted that the board voted in May 2009 to retire the name. Lifting the injunction put that action back into effect, he said, and unless he heard a motion to reconsider, "the name is dropped."

Board member Claus Lembke of Bismarck offered a motion to reconsider, but it died for a lack of a second. At that point, Smith turned to Goetz and directed him to send a letter to Kelley recommending the transition begin.

The court ruled this morning that the higher ed board has the authority to change the name at any time. Those Spirit Lake tribal members had asked the court to direct the board to wait until Nov. 30 to decide whether to drop the logo and nickname.

Smith said the decision was what the board expected.

In a 2007 settlement with the NCAA, which considers American Indian nicknames and logos offensive, UND was given until Nov. 30 of this year to win approval of continued use of the logo from the state's two tribes or retire it.

"We construe the language of the settlement agreement as a whole to allow UND to transition to a new nickname and logo at the end of the approval period, 'or at any time during the Approval Period,' " the court wrote in its unanimous opinion.

"We conclude the plain and unambiguous language of the settlement agreement, when construed as a whole and in conjunction with the Board's constitutional and statutory authority, does not require the Board or UND to continue using the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo until November 30, 2010.

"We therefore conclude the settlement agreement, when construed as a whole, does not delegate to the two tribes the ultimate authority to determine usage of the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo, or limit the Board's authority to terminate the nickname and logo before November 30, 2010.

"Because we construe the language of the settlement agreement to permit the Board to terminate UND's nickname and logo before November 30, 2010, it is not necessary to further consider the issue about the plaintiffs' standing. We have considered the remaining issues and arguments raised by the parties and find them to be either unnecessary to our decision or without merit


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## Bay_Dog (Jan 17, 2009)

Just picked up a couple more jerseys and misc stuff tonight ... web site(s) are running real slow. Proud to have been able to be a part of the Fighting Sioux!!!

Doesn't matter what they do concerning the name ... I'm sure the "Sioux" name will not be forgotten ...


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## Nodak_Norsk (Aug 5, 2007)

I was just on REA shop site. Might have to convince the hubby into buying a couple matching cheerleading outfits for the kids. I bought them each a Sioux hockey jersey last fall though-once they outgrow them in a couple years, I will have to pack them in their baby boxes for keepsakes : ) I have a TON of Sioux stuff. Haven't parted with a thing in about 12 years! It'll be 100 years before "Go Sioux" disappears ; )


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## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

So.....any news on when Notre Dame will be abolishing the "Fighting Irish"?


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

i say piss on the soiux tribe :crybaby: and re-name them the fighting sue


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

bearhunter said:


> i say piss on the soiux tribe :crybaby: and re-name them the fighting sue


They may as well, as a Bison fan we've been calling them that since the beginning anyway! oke:

GO BISON! :beer:


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm sure many of us will continue to wear SIOUX gear to games untill we die. I officially anounce the the NAs have lost my support at their Casinos. Wait......... I didn't support them anyway. In that case I will never start. As a matter of fact I find casinos offensive and think we should abolish them.


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## 9manfan (Oct 22, 2008)

dakotashooter2 said:


> I'm sure many of us will continue to wear SIOUX gear to games untill we die. I officially anounce the the NAs have lost my support at their Casinos. Wait......... I didn't support them anyway. In that case I will never start. As a matter of fact I find casinos offensive and think we should abolish them.


I couldn't agree more, but they are too powerfull , I've gone to a couple in my area, mostly to eat, maybe once a year, but I often wonder where all these people that are spending their money there, where was that money going before the casino's started, because it sure seems alot is spent there,,,


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

From what I understand, the majority of the tribe wished to see the Fighting Sioux name live on.....It's the spineless people on that board that voted to change the name I have a problem with.

Either way.... uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:

Kudos to Jody....



> Nothing will be changing in Ralph Engelstad Arena if general manager Jody Hodgson has anything to say about it.
> 
> Despite Thursday's ruling by the North Dakota State Board of Higher Education to begin retiring the Fighting Sioux name and logo, the privately owned arena - with an estimated 3,000 Sioux logos in it - might remain in its current state.
> 
> ...


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Also keep in mind that most who serve on the college boards and make these decisions are liberals who deem themselves intellectually superior to us and that it is their duty to save us from ourselves and do right (at least what THEY think is right) unto the world. uke:


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## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

go fighting sugar beets!
:lol:


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## ImpalaSSpeed96 (Aug 25, 2008)

Its a shame some people can never let some things go... I can't imagine being offended like some of these people claim. Sorry for you UND fans. This is ridiculous.....

http://www.kxnet.com/getArticle.asp?l_s ... eId=552436


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

ImpalaSSpeed96 said:


> Its a shame some people can never let some things go... I can't imagine being offended like some of these people claim. Sorry for you UND fans. This is ridiculous.....
> 
> http://www.kxnet.com/getArticle.asp?l_s ... eId=552436


in my opinion, they are not offended at all. it's nothing but a "power" thing to them. hope they have a big POW-WOW over it. uke: :evil:


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## duckjunky (Mar 8, 2007)

Well i guess I gotta more Fighting Sioux gear. Whatever becomes of the nickname once a UND FIGHTING SIOUX ALWAYS A UND FIGHTING SIOUX. I'll always wear my Fighting Sioux gear.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

dakotashooter2 said:


> Also keep in mind that most who serve on the college boards and make these decisions are liberals who deem themselves intellectually superior to us and that it is their duty to save us from ourselves and do right (at least what THEY think is right) unto the world. uke:


With all due respect and from one fighting sioux fan to another you are wrong about at least one member, that being Richie Smith. I know who he is, he is hardly a bleeding heart liberal or deems himself superior to others. He is a former D1 pitcher and gives quite generously to local athletics in the Wahp-Breck area. He is class man.

This issue needed to go away, the job of the board of higher ed is to represent all of the schools and the tax payers of ND. Yeah it sucks that we are losing the name but this has been a burden both from a logistical and financial standpoint. The NCAA, the Star and Tribune, and a few East Coast schools probably never would have let this go away so IMO the board of higher ed made a tough and unpopular decision that is best for everyone in the long run.


> hey may as well, as a Bison fan we've been calling them that since the beginning anyway!


Remind me again who was the dominant football team in the last few years of the NCC? It is nice to see a few less Bison FB players wearing Cass County Orange for their uniform this offseason


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

As far as I have seen the tribe supports the name(go to the Spirit Lake Casino on a busy night and you would think you were at a hockey game because of all the Fighting Sioux apparel), but just as our elected officials are out to for their own interests, theirs are too! The tribal board members just used this as a tool. It is really too bad that the vast majority of the support to ban this nickname came from folks that really shouldn't get a say as to if the name is offensive or not, ie any one who is not native. In my eyes since the majority of the tribe clearly supports the name and they don't find it offensive, the NCAA should have stayed out of it.


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## Bay_Dog (Jan 17, 2009)

bearhunter said:


> i say piss on the soiux tribe :crybaby: and re-name them the fighting sue


How's this???


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## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

back in 91 I went through this same thing at my highschool.... yes Central Redskins...... it was a hot topic then as it is now.... it to bad that the silent majority cant always be heard.... I will always be a ******* and of course also a Fighting Sioux.... :beer:


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

TK33 said:


> Remind me again who was the dominant football team in the last few years of the NCC?


Yeah, the last few years when D-2 was getting so weak anyway. Who dominated D-2 for many years before that though? Who was the whiner when NDSU decided to go D-1 and killed the rivalry? Who is the whiner now when they can't get scheduling? Who is begging NDSU for a game now? Who lost to an NAIA team last year? oke:


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Ultimately I think this is gonna hurt the NAs. There is no denying that The university kept the "SIOUX" name in the national spotlight at least to some extent. Now it may not have been ALL good but I believe a lot of good came from that....... which will now be lost.

I also think UND is gonna take a financial hit for a couple of years. Some are going to protest the name change by withholding dollars.


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## Nodak_Norsk (Aug 5, 2007)

dakotashooter2 said:


> I also think UND is gonna take a financial hit for a couple of years. Some are going to protest the name change by withholding dollars.


That is incredibly stupid over a name, but sadly I could definitely think of a few who would.


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## teamflightstoppersND (Feb 20, 2009)

Huntinfish: Who beat an opponent ranked #16 in the FCS last year? It was not the bison..............

Let the tribes vote. All the Liberals in the state want to suppress democracy! I will always fight for tribal suffrage.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

teamflightstoppersND said:


> Huntinfish: Who beat an opponent ranked #16 in the FCS last year? It was not the bison..............
> 
> Let the tribes vote. All the Liberals in the state want to suppress democracy! I will always fight for tribal suffrage.


Yup.....must be those nasty liberals.Couldn't be those conservatives no matter how denigrading it might be.
Guess you have been on the moon the past couple years....Standing Rock doesn't want to vote.How many times do they have to say that?They have only had what....3-4 years to vote?

Get the name changed and move on.....let UND get into a good conference.Or maybe that isn't as important as dragging it out another 6 months and then not be able to get into the Summit.

I went through this when my HS changed it's name from Chiefs.....hasn't changed who we or they are.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

KEN W said:


> teamflightstoppersND said:
> 
> 
> > Huntinfish: Who beat an opponent ranked #16 in the FCS last year? It was not the bison..............
> ...


the people on standing rock do want to vote i have asked quite a few and they are all for the und keeping there name. It is the crooked council men that dont want to, must not be getting enough money.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I have yet to meet an Indian that wants the name changed. But since we live in a politically correct society we have to change it.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

KurtR said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> > teamflightstoppersND said:
> ...


How many tribal elections have been held at Standing Rock since this agreement was made between the NCAA and UND.....Yet they have not elected council members or tribal chief that favors keeping the name.It's over.....move on.

And calling everyone in favor of moving on a liberal is pure garbage......just as it would be if I said they were all conservatives.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

If he was living on the moon, you must be living with your head buried in the sand up to your brown eye. The "tribe" supports the name, just look at the logos all over the reservations. Their councils are just as corrupt, liberal or conservative as they may be, as our elected leaders in DC. Why would any one think it would be any different??? We have not heard the voice of the people, just the voice of the few, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


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## chrisg (Mar 17, 2010)

> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> > I have yet to meet an Indian that wants the name changed. But since we live in a politically correct society we have to change it.


Well I am sure you are referring to all of the Native Americans @ Standing Rock. Or is it all those NA's attending schools in Fargo? I think everyone needs to take a breath on this, its about the People of Standing Rock Reservation who should be heard not everyone else. I look back and what the heck was his name, His Horse is Thunder was in the big chair and he opposed the name and blasted it every chance he could. Then the elections came last november and the challenger had a big push of support by using a cue from politicians in D.C. Say one thing and do another by saying he would support a vote from all the people on this matter. Since he took over the reigns from his horse is thunder now that issueto him isn't so important anymore, and they argue that the schools and streets and everything else is run down and decisions on those are more important that this matter. True in a way but I want to know why and how things and conditions there got to be so bad. Isn't there any yearly gov't funding for those things? But they should hold a referendum and vote of the people there, and if the vote says the name goes so be it then, dead and resolved issue. Not letting the people be heard because someone thinks they speak on their behalf got Thunder pants bounced from the position so obviously somebody there must still think that the Fighting Sioux name means something to them.....


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## chrisg (Mar 17, 2010)

Also I am sure BL that all these native americans appreciate calling them "indians". :eyeroll:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Indians or Americans take your pick. Not Native Americans. You separating and showing a difference there. If you want to ride on your high horse go ahead. Anyone who is a citizen in the USA is a plain old American in my eyes. None of that Hispanic American or African American garbage. I don't go by, Danish, German, Polish American, I go by American.

I have talked to alot more then just a few Indians, I went to school with some in high school, and talked to some in Devils Lake. So I would say I have met and talked to around 20. All support the Sioux name.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

chrisg said:


> Also I am sure BL that all these native americans appreciate calling them "indians". :eyeroll:


This is exactly part of the problem. 'Native American' is a misnomer to begin with as there are no peoples that were 'native' to this Continent.

This is why when I fill out my child's school registration, I put a check in the 'other' box and write in 'Czech American'. Why not? That is their heritage and mine.

I also use Czech American for my nationality because that is what I am.

I could also say to you "chrisg" that I am sure that the Native Americans and the Indians appreciate you using lower case letters and not capitalizing the names as would be proper. Or do you not think that they are not worthy of a capital letter?

Is that not what you are doing to bl3? He meant no slight towards those peoples yet you bastardised his statement to reflect a negative.

Spin.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Savage260 said:


> If he was living on the moon, you must be living with your head buried in the sand up to your brown eye. The "tribe" supports the name, just look at the logos all over the reservations. Their councils are just as corrupt, liberal or conservative as they may be, as our elected leaders in DC. Why would any one think it would be any different??? We have not heard the voice of the people, just the voice of the few, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


You seem to be the one with his head up his buitt.

Their council is no different than any other gov't body.....you are stuck with them until the next election.They had 3 years to get it done.should the Board of Higher Ed have waited.....maybe.But they did it in good consciense to allow UND to get into a conference.Otherwise they wait another year which may be to late.The decision was made.......Move on.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

just talking to day with a few standing rock residents they wanted to vote but the council does not listen to people they listen to money. That was while i was in fort yates. Look at all the cases of council members getting in trouble for skimming a little here and there.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

You seem to be the one with his head up his buitt.

Really? Did some one get his panties in a bunch because some one doesn't agree with him?? :eyeroll:

I hope you don't act like a petulant child in the real world Ken.

I think I, and those like minded people, who know NAs and actually spend time in and around these reservations are seeing much more clearly than you Ken.

Who elected you as a tribal council memeber? 
You sure seem to think you speak for every one with your "Move on" BS.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Yeah.....you know everything.....Spend time around reservations and get to know these people?????.....guess what brown eye.....I taught school at Dunseith for 7 years.....96% NA students.....the staff was 75% NA.I can't remember how many NA parents I know up there.That's 1,260 days spent with NA.I see things pretty clearly.

I'm not on a tribal council......never said I was.What gives you more credibility than me?Just my opinion.The board isn't going to change it's mind.Get over it and stop whining.

So yes,I know how the election system works on the reservation.

All I have said is that Standing Rock has had more time than necessary to agree to the nickname.The people they have elected have decided it isn't an important issue.....you made this personal with your brown eye statement.

Enough of this......time to move on....I'm not trying to make this personal..... :eyeroll:


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

after working in both dunsieth and all around standing rock they are two very different areas. So that is not a fair comparison. I wish standing rock was more like it was up there. Seems to be alot more dishonesty on the council down here.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Kurt.....I am not making a comparison.I am answering this accusation...."I think I, and those like minded people, who know NAs and actually spend time in and around these reservations are seeing much more clearly than you Ken."

I have spend years working with NA.I know them very well.Answering this is not about comparing the 2 tribes or reservations.

actually what started this is.....what do liberals have to do with this decion.....not a thing.

But back to the original topic......It is time to move on.The board made it's decision.Get UND into the Summit conference.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Wow, kenny, you sure would make a good politician!!!! You KNOW what is good for every one, including the NAs, since you have soooo much experience dealing with them!! I hope you didn't get your undies in a bunch like this when you were teaching! :eyeroll:

Brown eye????? Calling people names is very mature ken, I really hope you don't lose your cool like that in the real world. Do you have some anger issues? Oh, wait, you are (in your own words) "Not trying to make this personal". You are no good at that kenny my boy. I said you had your head in the sand, but you fired back that I had my head up my buitt. Then you call me a brown eye??? You are nothing more than an internet "tough guy" and you really seem to be a hot head, I hope you don't act like that in real life!! :shake:

By the way, my eyes are a beautiful shade of green!! :thumb:

"I am not making a comparison.I am answering this accusation...."I think I, and those like minded people, who know NAs and actually spend time in and around these reservations are seeing much more clearly than you Ken.""

This is not an accusation. It is a statement. You don't live on or near a reservation....do you???? How many NAs do you speak with on a daily basis? How often do you visit a reservation, not including time spent at a casino???? No accusation there at all, but you sure seem to think you are being attacked. Is every one out to get you ken?

WOW A WHOLE 7 YEARS!!!! Damn, ken, you really are almost a tribal chair!!! How many tribal elections did you attend in your time in Dunseith, since you KNOW how the tribal elections work? I have never been to one.

I will see your amazing 7 years, and raise you about 20 more. Both my wife and I work in the community and spend a good deal of time with NA people(my wife much more so than I). A very good friend of mine(lives 5 houses away) is BIA. SO yea, ken, I see it a little more clearly than you do! The only difference is I don't tell every one what the tribe wants or deoesn't want, are you sure you are not a tribal council member?

I spent the better part of my day last friday at the 4 winds school with the school children(from 3-4 different schools) and their parents and extended families. When was the last time you spent a day on a reservation ken? Yea, ken, I am seeing pretty clearly. I wish I had a camera to take photos of all the support for the Sioux nickname out there. But you are right, the tribes don't want a vote!


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Savage260 said:


> If he was living on the moon, you must be living with your head buried in the sand up to your brown eye. The "tribe" supports the name, just look at the logos all over the reservations. Their councils are just as corrupt, liberal or conservative as they may be, as our elected leaders in DC. Why would any one think it would be any different??? We have not heard the voice of the people, just the voice of the few, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.


Savage260, I believe Ken got the term "brown eye" from this post. You seem to be the one who is getting all hot and bothered. Take a break and do some fishing! Jeesh! All this over some stupid knickname and logo! You should be directing your anger at the leadership of UND and the tribes who should have gotten an agreement in writing along time ago! They may as well change it now, because it will be an issue again in the future!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Its only an issue because people think being politically correctness is the right way to go. The NCAA was the only one to make it an issue, then other schools jumped on the band wagon. The Fighing Illini changed their name, logo and got rid of Chief Illiniwek, though the tribe wanted them to keep it. Hell the tribe donated the dress, and taught them the special dance. The school changed because they felt being politically correct was more important then the wishes of the tribe. Pretty soon, someone will attack Notre Dame, because some Irish person will take offense to it.

As much as I hate the change, it happened,its over. New name.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Done. Personal attacks, name calling, etc. I think this one has run its course.


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