# Duck Blind Ethics



## birdog105 (Aug 23, 2008)

~Posted in dog forum but didn't know where it'd fit best

This morning I was out with my usual duck hunting buddy and best friend on a pothole in the middle of a cut corn field. We were in Lay-Out blinds next to the water. My dog lays between blinds and almost never busts until the call is made to shoot. We were working a flock of mallards and a teal cupped next to us. My buddy broke open his blind and my dog started heading toward the water. My buddy, not paying attention to anything but this teal started shooting with my dog 10 feet in front of him and about a foot over his head... After a rigid @55 chewing, I packed my stuff and left. I feel bad but I was not okay with his lack of judgement and my dog's life flashed before my eyes. I don't know that I could hunt with him again after this. I have many friends that I refuse to bring to the duck blind, and this is the first real issue I've had with him but it was a pretty serious one in my eyes. Was/am I in the wrong??


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

I would freak if someone shot a decoy, that's $20. A well trained dog is worth alot more, not including the time spent together and the memories.

If I were to allow him to come back, there would be some strict rules. Set a Capt. that person calls all shots, that person over sees the entire spread for such dangers. No one shoots at anything unless it's at least 10 feet off the ground, etc. That is a tuff call. The Happy Ending to the story, no one, or animal got hurt.


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## grnhd (Jun 21, 2003)

"Almost never" means sometimes your dog does break and makes me think you should have better control of your dog.If you were chewing your buddies butt and not your dog, I can tell you this,you wouldn't "chew my azz" because you cant control your dog. If you chewed your buddies butt I think you owe him an apology. I can see how a person consentrating on a shot wouldn't see a dog run out.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

While there may be some fault on both sides, humans have the bigger brains. As dog owners we are generally more conscious of our dogs than others but non the less all other hunters in the party still have some responsibility to watch out for the dog.. no matter how well it is or isn't trained. That could have easily been another member of the hunting party.Just because it is a dog doesn't mean we can be less safety conscious. Personally I'm just as carefull or more around other peoples dogs as I am around my own. But again that may be because I am a dog owner. But I will repeat safety is safety. One shot over the dog is gonna get a please be carefull two or more is gonna get a what the heck were you doing.


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## birdog105 (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm not going to get into a debate over dog training, but when I say almost never I mean one or two times a season he will slip out before the call. My issue is that he was shooting without anyone's call and the bird was a few feet off the water... which in most hunting situations is a no-no with dogs around to begin with in my group. I may have been a little harsh chewing him out but had my dog jumped rather than kept running he would have eaten a full pattern at 10 ft. And I would likely be in jail for assault rather than sitting here questioning my reaction haha. And to the requiring a 'captain' its usually who ever has the permission where we are hunting(me in this case) and I was trying to pull in a flock of 8 mallards and was planning on letting the lone teal land at the time. I may call him in a few days and discuss further hunting ettiquette(sp?) Guidelines and see where it goes. He has burned me by hunting my permission without me in the past withoit the land owners knowledge too, maybe he just needs a little education and I never noticed it before.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Do not currently have a dog to hunt with, however I do hunt with people that do. Some of the dogs are great at holding others not so much. What I have taken upon myself to do is to talk about the dogs if the owners do not. Lay out some simple ground rules that will keep the dogs safe. In layout conditions no shot to be taken on birds lower than the height of a man standing. In otherwords if the muzzle is not above your eyes do not shoot! That is from experince from way back. Friend had a dog that would leap up at birds sometimes, dog would crawl forward while we worked the birds and just as they where about to land would leap up to grab one.

Water same rule with the obvious that no birds are ever to be shot at with a dog in the water! Along with never leave a loaded gun unattended. If you leave your blind the shell comes out of the chamber. Had a friends dog break on a deer that came in behind us two years ago. Dog never leaves on a down bird without being released. One of the group shot a banded bird and did not want the dog to possible damage the bird for mounting. He unloaded and left his gun to retrieve the bird. About that time this young deer steps out of the cornfield and the dog broke and started after it. Went right across the open layout. When John got back saftey was off and mud in the trigger guard from the dogs foot.

I do this even with guys I have hunted with a long time. The dog owners like it so do the rest of the guys and many do it now in other groups. .

So my advice is to simmer down, evaluate the situation and speak to your friend. Chances are it was a learning lesson for both. You as the dog owner should have set some ground rules prior especially if the partner is not use to hunting with a dog. Simple reminder of safety first goes a long way in preventing accidents.

Second thing is that if he is a decent guy he is unlikely to ever forget this and the likelyhood of it happening again would be slim.Having started a number of young hunters and new hunters over the years, those who do not have dogs of their own are not wired to think about them as a dog owner is. SO DO NOT ASSUME THAT THEY WOULD!


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## grnhd (Jun 21, 2003)

birdog105 said:


> I'm not going to get into a debate over dog training, but when I say almost never I mean one or two times a season he will slip out before the call. My issue is that he was shooting without anyone's call and the bird was a few feet off the water... which in most hunting situations is a no-no with dogs around to begin with in my group. I may have been a little harsh chewing him out but had my dog jumped rather than kept running he would have eaten a full pattern at 10 ft. And I would likely be in jail for assault rather than sitting here questioning my reaction haha. And to the requiring a 'captain' its usually who ever has the permission where we are hunting(me in this case) and I was trying to pull in a flock of 8 mallards and was planning on letting the lone teal land at the time. I may call him in a few days and discuss further hunting ettiquette(sp?) Guidelines and see where it goes. He has burned me by hunting my permission without me in the past withoit the land owners knowledge too, maybe he just needs a little education and I never noticed it before.


Ahh,more to the story.
First,I'm a dog owner to so I understand how you felt. We love our dogs. When hunting with someone else who I'm not real familiar with I snap my dog to a tether,especially when hunting with someone that also has a dog.Their dog breaks and takes off running,sometimes mine will to. Like you said,sometimes they break it just happens and I like to have complete control of my dog.
Second,it sounds like this guy isn't much of a buddy. Hunting your spot,you call the shot. Like you thats generally how it works with us to. Your "buddy" shooting at a duck when no one called the shot...not cool.And going back to my spot that I had permission on without me,TWICE....super not cool :******: That shows now respect for the friendship or the land owner. Now I'm thinking you need to find another buddy. 
And last,stop shooting ducks,you're north of me :lol:


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## gundogguru (Oct 7, 2003)

You made the right choice. My dogs mean the world to me. No bird is worth the life of one of my dogs......................


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## DUCKWHISPERER (Aug 20, 2009)

Heres a thought... even the best of dogs have a tendacy to get excited as do we....Stake him down & you'll never have to worry about the dog breaking and the bonus to that is then your lil buddy knows he can only be released on your command...He learns & you can also do some shooting and not worry if your dog is in the line of fire. This is what I do...of coarse my dog is only 7 mo. but I will always stake him down whenever possible. Good luck! :beer:


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## shiawassee_kid (Oct 28, 2005)

your buddy was wrong.

you are wrong also for not leashing your dog to your blind. my dog don't hold either but is a monster of a retriever. I leash him to the blind for his safety and safety of everyone else. do your self a favor and leash him to your blind....not hard to release him after everyone is done shooting.


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## DUCKWHISPERER (Aug 20, 2009)

Yep Leash that hound...On a side note...Find a new friend too...It amazes me how people will do you wrong just to get a good field and act like everything is all good..I don't even want to get into the BS Iv'e had to deal with...so called friends trying to jack your spots.etc.etc...Some people just don't value friendships...Good Luck with you and your dog...as far as your other so called friend...you either straighten him out or cut him the effe out sooner than later...otherwise before you know it you'll have to ask him if you can hunt that field. Seriously, It's pretty sad when you can't trust your own buddies. I guess thats why I prefer to hunt with Family. Good Luck!


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## birdog105 (Aug 23, 2008)

Ya know, for some reason it never occurred to me tie my dog down in the field... I have done it in the past in my boat while moving to/from blind spots... Good advice.


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## birdog105 (Aug 23, 2008)

And as far as shooting ducks... Trust me I have scared my fair share off with the three shot "warning" :beer: haha.


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## grnhd (Jun 21, 2003)

birdog105 said:


> And as far as shooting ducks... Trust me I have scared my fair share off with the three shot "warning" :beer: haha.


Haha...maybe I should have said,stop scaring and educating ducks, you're north of me. :rollin: I scare my share,maybe I shouldnt be joking around :beer:

As for tying the dog,some have suggested tying the dog to your blind. Myself,I dont like that. If and when he takes off,he's going to give your blind a good jolt and it will happen right as you pull the trigger.I saw a buddies dog turn his blind around! What I use is a screw in the ground dog anchor and I put that in the ground behind her blind and run the leash through her blind. If I'm hunting with a buddy who's dog is bad about breaking and he does nothing about it,I offer the anchor as a "hint" to control your dog. Here is what I use.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003M2CJCA/ref ... B003M2CJCA


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

All of these problems should be dealt with befor the season, or at least have the tools to deal with them if they need fixing during the season... PUT THE GUN DOWN AND HANDLE YOUR DOG, ADMINISTER CORRECTIONS UNTILL THE PROBLEM IS FIXED.


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## pigeon123 (Sep 25, 2012)

Either he is a good hunting buddy or not. If he is a good buddy that you like to hunt with get over it he knows if he did wrong. If he has ethics issues quite a bit why do you even ask him to go anymore. End of story. Not sure what yelling at hims accomplishes and walk away like a baby. Not sure what whining on the intranet does either, but each to their own. What do the mallards have to do with it? Actually just apologize for being a baby and don't hunt with him anymore.


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## CrazyWalsh81 (Nov 30, 2011)

YOU ARE NEVER OUT OF LINE WITH SAFETY.

I hunted with a buddy and a guy newer to hunting and I tried to remind him of simple things like making sure to put his gun back on safe after we shoot, while he is reloading. Always wait for me or my buddy to call a shot and we talked when the dog was out front of someone was walking down a bird that floated into the weeds. We did not have any issues just a couple small early pull ups. Had the dog out getting a bird and 2 teal flew and where we would have called the shot with everyong ready the dog was right there and no one shot. The dog even stopped, droped the bird, and looked that the two birds that buzzed him.

There are people not do dumb things over and over, but there are more that don't. Find one of them to hunt with.


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## superxjeff (Oct 29, 2012)

If he had been hunting with us this never would have happened in the first place. We do not shoot teal for the very reason you mention. It's quite common to be working a group of mallards or pintails ( even widgeon and gadwalls) and have a teal come humming in. Somebody shoots and we miss the chance at big ducks.

There is no teal shooting when we are shooting mallards unless there is nothing else to shoot and guys all agree on it.

Teal.... God made them to save mallards.

As for right or wrong? Only you can say friend.

We get touchy about our dogs and anybody who nearly shoots them. For me, I wouldn't hunt with him because he would shoot a teal and screw up a chance at Mallards that everybody could have enjoyed. It's a teal for goodness sake.

Almost shot a dog and messed up other guys chances at big ducks. That is a no brainer for us because we have an understanding about teal.
The older I get the easier it is for me to forgive a friend but safety is safety and I don't hunt with selfish guys that are unsafe. He wouldn't be a part of my crew after that. Jeff


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

BROWNDOG said:


> All of these problems should be dealt with befor the season, or at least have the tools to deal with them if they need fixing during the season... PUT THE GUN DOWN AND HANDLE YOUR DOG, ADMINISTER CORRECTIONS UNTILL THE PROBLEM IS FIXED.


We have a winner.
As a dog owner and handler, you have a responsibility to your dog to train him/her not to perform in such a way. If you don't have the ability to complete the training or your dog is such a fire breather that it is untrainable to be steady, then as your hunting buddy, I would strongly ask you to leash your dog and keep them out of harms way. (This what I do when hunting with others). The dog will mark much better and won't disrupt any additional birds that may be decoying.


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## HugeBurrito2k6 (Oct 25, 2011)

Anyone who is saying this is the dogs fault needs to get a swift kick in the ***! Sure if the dog breaks it is an area that needs improvement, but to justify shooting just above the dog because he broke early is a poor excuse. If the dog breaks that dog handlers responsibility is that dog and its safety first and hunting second. If you don"t have this concept down you have no right of handling a dog. The handler should have yelled something to the effect of STOP or DOG. This area should be addressed before everyone jumps in the blind before the hunt and if either of those words are yelled by the handler it doesn't matter if you are beaded on a double banded drake mallard that is the size of a tundra swan you do NOT discharge your weapon and if you did you would automatically be out of that hunting party. People and animals are irreplaceable there will always be more ducks on the horizon.

Also on a side note i do not and will not ever believe in tying a dog up. That dog should have a shock collar on him and if this is a reoccurring problem the handler should not even be hunting but rather have eyes on the dog and as soon as that dog starts to creep out of that kennel he should be giving the dog a quick hit on the collar and telling him to kennel up. The dog will learn it is just a matter of repetition until that dog gets the idea burned in his mind that if he breaks before he is told to fetch it up he is going to get a good shock. I have seen a dog get tied down and he broke like a bullet on the first shot and almost broke his neck.


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## alecwin (Aug 31, 2008)

I would have freaked out too, but you could have prevented the situation from happening. I always tie my dog out with a tie-out stake that some people use in their yards - corkscrew style with a short lead that I made from braided paracord.










Pretty easy solution and much safer for the dog, easier for me to not have to worry about her breaking and just shoot, then send her when the action slows down.


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## riverrat47 (Sep 25, 2010)

1. Is your buddy used to hunting around a dog? I hunted both waterfowl and upland without a dog for many years. I rarely hunted with people who had dogs. When I was exposed to hunting with dogs, my behavior changed. Maybe your buddy just wasn't aware that this is unacceptable behavior.
2. Yep. Dogs shouldn't break, but they sometimes do...even the best trained. I just bought a stake last week to use as a back up, after my dog broke on a volley of warning shots  on opening day. I must have left his shock collar on and it was dead, so I didn't mess with it...and pup knew he was free. (Probably should have put the collar on him anyway, and hope the bluff worked.) 
3. Were rules set up about who called the shot? Could he see the mallards or only the teal? Personally, I wait for the person that has the blind/spot to call the shot. Your spot, your call, unless discussed beforehand. 
4. If, in the past, he had jumped one of my spots without permission of the landowner or myself, there wouldn't have been a problem on this hunt because he wouldn't have been there. 
In 55 years of hunting, only once have I gone back to a private spot without the person who took me. A buddy took me to a great upland spot, while talking to the farmer, it turned out that he and my Dad were old friends. He invited me to come back any time. On the ride home, I asked my friend if it would upset him if I went back. There was no hesitation when he said it wouldn't, as he usually only hunted the farm once a year. If he had hesitated the least bit, I wouldn't have gone back...invitation from the farmer or not.


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