# Fallguy's new coyote gun (pictures)



## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Well here is my new rifle. Synthetic stock Weatherby Vanguard in 223 caliber. I have a Scheels 4.5-14 x 42 scope on it with a sunshade, a Claw Sling, and a pivoting bipod. I really like the flat bottom to the forearm, and the matte metal which reduces shine on the gun. It should make for a nice calling rifle.

I took it out this morning for her first round of shooting. The boresighting done by Scheels had her within a few inches. I messed with the scope and produced this 200 yard group (laying prone with my bipod). After wiping about 10 woodticks off my pants I walked down and saw the target. I am by no means an expert shot so I was very satisfied with this. I was shooting a little high at 100 yards but I thought I would quit for the day and do some finer adjusting another day. Sometimes I get to fiddling around and make TOO MUCH adjustment, or get fatigued, then frustrated, and then unconfident in where my gun is sighted in at. I have a lot of time before the season rolls around to try some different loads. Today I was shooting Winchester Super X 55 Grain Softpoints. If any of you have a proven load you have tried for the 223 let me know. I shoot factory rounds currently. Save the reloading tips for when I get setup for that. :wink:


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Nice set up, glad to see you finally got it? Any plans to paint it, or are you just wrapping it. I know, I know; it is hard to think about taking a spray can to barnd new rifle !!!


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Nice Rifle !

How do you think you are going to like that Scope ?

There was a guy at our Club shooting a Custom 10/22 with a Scheels Rifle Scope a couple years ago. I shot a few rounds with that Rifle / Scope and thought the scope was pretty decent for the price.

I have had really good results with Ultra Max Commercial Reloads over the years, especially the ones loaded with either the 52gr. Speer Hollot Point and the 55gr. Pointed Soft Point Bullets.

Larry


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

I have a Scheels 3.5-10 scope on my 243. I have had that setup for about 3 years and just love the scope on it. When I bought this latest gun I didn't really even consider another scope for it. I decided to stick with what I like and have enjoyed.

Yes, I plan to eventually paint the rifle. I need to do some more research on the whole process, so until then, I will just wrap it up.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Fallguy said:


> I have a Scheels 3.5-10 scope on my 243. I have had that setup for about 3 years and just love the scope on it. When I bought this latest gun I didn't really even consider another scope for it. I decided to stick with what I like and have enjoyed.


That is good info to know for the future.

Thanks Fallguy

Larry


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

That barrel looks longer than most 223's to me. What is the length? Have you ever shot it over a chrono?


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Hey fallguy, nice new shootin iron ya got there! I know you dont reload yet so if you want to try something factory that shoots crazy good in both my .223s try Black Hills stuff in the blue box(remanufactured) or for a little more, the red box(brand new never fired) in the 50 gr V-max load or the 52gr match bullet. I have shot both with stellar results. I have seen many on this site say that the Vmax is a COYOTE KILLER and I completely agree! I use 40s, 50s, and 55s in 4 different rifles and I refuse to change. Other than that, thats about the only factory rounds I have tried. Good luck with the new gun and I hope this helps.

Jaybic.

Oh yeah, either Gander Mountain or Cabelas should have it in stock or you can order the stuff from about anywhere like Midway or Natchez shooters supply.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Jaybic

I was in Cabelas today looking for some new rounds to try out. They had those that you mentioned. Last night I was watching Coyote Overdose and the Miller brothers say all they use is the VMax. What makes it so good? How are they on fur? The reason I bought my 223 was to be more fur friendly next season, so I want to do that as good as possible. I saw the Black Hills were 50 rounds for 30 bucks. Better price than the Hornady V Max. How does the quality of the Black Hills compare? And tell me what are the benefits to this V Max bullet?


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Fallguy,

Nice choice on the firearm! :beer:

I have been shooting a Tikka .223 now for about three years, and have found that the Hornady (moly) 40 gr. Vmax, and the Winchester Supreme 40 gr. Ballistic Silvertip are the most accurate out of my gun by far. I believe that they must have the same exact powder brand and charge in both of these loads, because they group and chrono the same. They are identical also as far as accuracy. These two bullets/loads are the closest thing to hand loads that I have ever used. Depending on your gun, you should be able to expect 1/2" to 1" groups at 100 yds. (5 shot groups). I have shot several coyotes with both of these bullets, and found that pelt damage is minimal. I have tried the Black Hills 52 gr. hollow point moly load, but was dissapointed with the accuracy compared to the above loads. My group with the Black Hills ammo was close to 1.5".

I think it would be beneficial for you to try both the Hornady and the Winchester Supreme in whatever bullet weight you think you would like to use on coyotes. Heck, try the Black Hills stuff too. Matter of fact, I would try as many brands as you can afford - I would just suggest staying with the same bullet weight - and the 40 gr. bullet seems to be best suited for the .223. Have fun! :sniper:


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

I can't say why but VMax bullets seem to be quite accurate in every 223 I've tried them in (closing in on a dozen different rifles). 26gn of H335 with a 50gn VMax has been very accurate. This is a load I've started shooting this spring, no coyote kills to verify performance, but, that bullet/load does a real number on prairie dogs.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

My gun has a 1 in 12 twist. Is that more suited to the heavier grain bullets? I am just starting to learn about this twist rate thing.

Iwantabuggy,

The barrel on mine is 24".


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Fallguy,

The reasons that the V-max are so good is they just flat KILL coyotes dead. I have shot 6 last year altogether with the 40gr Vmax which will shoot .5 to 1in groups out of both of my .223s and both of my 22-250s. My .243 will also shoot them in .5in as long as I stay out of the booze cabinet the night prior to shooting and the old lady aint on my nerves. :beer: . Anyway, on a head on shot, EVERY coyote I have shot in my life has done just like the videos. The back legs collapse and he/she sits down, stick their tongue out and falls over stone dead. No spinning or nothing. Bullet hole is always nearly impossible to find but on skinning you may that it ended up way back in the guts. Broadside, I have gotten pencil to dime size entrance and best I can recall, never an exit although my buddy shot one with a 55 gr vmax (which is what the Coyote Doctors and Bloodyblinddoors use...props) and it did go thru at 70 yds. I have noticed dragging on snow that you dont even see a blood smear sometimes with the head on shots.

Cheap, compared to Nosler or Sierra, super-accurate and kills extra dead. I also see alot of other posts from others that say the same thing and If you look on the reloading furom here on Nodak theres more info yet. Horsager, Gohon and Plainsman as well as several others seem to know a great bit about this as well.

As far as twist goes, I believe most .223s have 1/12 twist and I think 55gr bullets are about as heavy as you can get before accuracy loss and keyholing. My AR has 1/10 and some as fast as 1/7 and can shoot up to about 80gr bullets. Its just like a football. The faster its thrown and the tighter the spiral, the more accurate it will be, at least thats the way I understand it I guess. I sight in dead on at 200yds and that puts me about 1.5 inches +/- at 100yds and maybe 4-6 inches low at 300 depending on how much I woble(sp?).

I would buy Black hills over the Hornady ones on price alone. Its the same bullet. I have one group with the Black hills 50s in my AR and I have 5 shots and two bullet holes under a dime(probably never able to do it again either :-? . One day I will learn to post pics and send it to you. I guess in the end, If you dont mind sewing up pencil sized holes, the 40gr is awesome but I would use the 50gr for a little more long range(200-300yds) smack! Best of luck to ya, but you will see come oct when that first one goes down like he died for no reason at all. :jammin:

Jaybic


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

Fallguy said:


> My gun has a 1 in 12 twist. Is that more suited to the heavier grain bullets? I am just starting to learn about this twist rate thing.
> 
> Iwantabuggy,
> 
> The barrel on mine is 24".


Good choice.....


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Jaybic

I went to Black Hills Ammo website and it looks like they are serious about their products they market. I stopped in Cabelas last night and picked up a blue box of 50 Grain V Max. 50 rounds for 30 dollars...60 cents a round. By comparison, the cheapest shells I found at Home of Economy in GF were Winchester Super X 55 Grain Softpoints for 65 cents/round (not taking into account full metal jackets). Hopefully I will get to try these out in the next week. I hope these V Max are as accurate as everyone says they are!


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

Ever thought about reloading. You can hand tune your load to your gun to optimize accuracy, and I calculated the per shot price on my 22-250 with a 50 gr v-max moly at around 40 cents per shot. Food for thought.

:sniper:


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

In regards to Bullet Weight vs Rifling Twist Rate, the LENGTH of the Bullet has more to do with it than does the Weight. As I am sure you may already know the Plastic Tipped Bullets are generally longer than their Lead Tipped or Hollow Point counterparts of the same weight.

When I first started looking into getting an AR-15 I collected some Bullet Lengths for various .224" Bullets. In addition to measuring the bullets I had on hand I also obtained the bullet lengths from the manufactures and also from some friends on the net that measured bullets they had on hand.

40gr. Speer Spire Point - .505" - 1 in 17"
40gr. Sierra Hollow Point - .565" - 1 in 15"
45gr. Hornady "Hornet" - .605" - 1 in 14"
50gr. Speer TNT Hollow Point - .682" - 1 in 13"
55gr. Winchester Pointed Soft Point - .693" - 1 in 13"
52gr. Speer Flat Base Hollow Point - .698" - 1 in 12"
40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip - .703" - 1 in 12"
55gr. Sierra Spitzer - .710" - 1 in 12"
55gr. Sierra HPBT - .718" - 1 in 12"
50gr. Sierra BLITZKING - .780" - 1 in 11"
50gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip - .788" - 1 in 11"
64gr. Winchester Power Point - .798" - 1 in 11"
50gr. Hornady V-MAX - .800" - 1 in 11"
55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip - .808" - 1 in 11"
55gr. Hornady V-MAX - .813" - 1 in 11"
65gr. Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail - .840" - 1 in 10"
69gr. Sierra Matchking HPBT - .895" - 1 in 10"
70gr. Berger VLD - .966" - 1 in 9"
68gr. Hornady BTHP - .985" - 1 in 9"
75gr. Hornady BTHP - 1.040" - 1 in 8"
80gr. Nosler HPBT - 1.070" - 1 in 8"
75gr. Swift Scirocco II - 1.085" - 1 in 8"
75gr. Hornady A-MAX - 1.098" - 1 in 8"

The first number behind the bullet description is the bullets length from base to tip. The second number is the recommended twist rate per the Greenhill Formula.

The Greenhill Forumula is not an absolute as it does not take into account the exact muzzle velocity, but rather uses generalization in above or below 2800 FPS muzzle velocity.

As can be seen above the 55gr. Winchester Pointed Soft Point bullet is quite short and that several of the newer Plastic Tipped Bullets that are lighter in weight are actually longer than the 55gr. Winchester Pointed Soft Point.

I don't profess to know everything there is to know about this subject, but hopefully I can provide some base information so you can research it for yourself and come to your own conclusions.

Larry


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Sdhandgunner,

I did not know that about the weight VS length. I always understood it was due to weight but I am beginning to think that I didnt get the full story. I have been told by lots of guys that I was pretty sure knew more that I did, not to shoot the Sierra 69gr hp match kings in a 1/12 twist because they were "too heavy". No one every mentioned "too long". I even called the Sierra tech line because on the side of the box it says "1in7-1in10only" or something like that. You probably know the box i am talking about.

Anyway, in trying out my new Browning Abolt 22-250(20 inch bbl) last fall, I could not get it to shoot under about 3 inches at 100 yds with any kind of ballistic tip 55gr bullet and the guy at the Sierra Bullets tech line said it was because they were too long and to try a 55gr soft point and that would shoot. That agrees with what you are saying so I think I just learned something. Thanks for the insight! :beer:

Oh yeah, by the way, NICE dpms on the other thread. My "go to" rifle is my DPMS with a JP trigger(you will love it) a douglas match barrel, and 26.6gr of H335 with 40gr Vmax. If I had to give up all but one(I have 5) of my coyote rifles, that would be the one I keep. Just wait until you get that first "Fourple"(credit to fallguy) to come in.

Jaybic

P.s. Fallguy, add his name to the list of people to listen to and remove mine.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

iwantabuggy

Yes, I have thought about reloading. My calling partner, Papapete, and I are probably going to go in on a system down the road. I just got a new gun and a new baby girl. There is only so much money floating around you know. :beer:


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Jaybic thanks for the kind words. Yes I am really liking that DPMS, more than I ever thought I would. So far everything I have pointed it at has been killed with a single shot. I can hardly wait till the first killing frost this fall to get out calling with this new EVIL BLACK RIFLE.

Larry


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## redwingnut22 (Jan 1, 2006)

Hey Fallguy Black Hills, is the best round I have shot out of my Savage .223, I grouped 5 rounds in 3/4" at 100yrds. The others I shot did not preform as well. Someone also told me that they were a manufactures reload. Did you hear anything about this??


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## ogger (Jul 9, 2007)

Fallguy nice looking gun! I'm new to hunting coyotes but i've had my 22-250 for a little over two years. I'm using an BSA 6-24 40ir scope on it so far no coyotes but several groundhog and white tales. So far all that I've shoot through it is federals 45gr hp's. At 100yds no exit on white tales, but at 150yds dime to nickel size exit on groundhogs. Any pointers that you or anyone out there can give me will be welcomed.

:sniper:


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

Just start reading other posts.


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