# Why can't you wear a hat in court?



## walleyecandy

I was asked this question from a 20 something kid and realized there is not a good reason why...

If it is because the judge 'prefers' it....well, I prefer the people passing judgment on me not to wear dresses...

Cultural?

Is there a law somewhere that states no headwear? Back to the men wearing dresses question then...

If anyone doesn't like this question -that's totally acceptable; then instead of making some comment involving disrespect, incompetence, or shows ignorance. ...please feel free to pull your bottom lip over your head and swallow. :bop:


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## Kelly Hannan

I was told it is a showing of disrespect to the judge. I think it is against my rights to make me take it off.


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## huntin1

Some judges allow it, most view it as a sign of disrespect and do not allow it. It is the judge's courtroom after all. There is no specific law against it, but then there is no constitutional right to wear a hat either. Do you wear it to church?

Social etiquette dictates that sports hats should not be worn indoors at all. There are even some people who believe that those who wear hats indoors are of low IQ, even lower if it's on backwards. 

But really, it's that difficult to go without a hat occasionally, or do you spend a lot of time in court?


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## dakotashooter2

RESPECT............

It is often said you must earn respect but have tried to live my life giving respect to everyone until they prove they don't deserve it....... Though often times that on takes less than a minute.....................


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## walleyecandy

Imo- it's a comfort level thing to wear a hat. It keeps the bright lights out of my eyes... To me, it's a light sensitivity issue when I wear a hat.

Justice is supposedly blind- so why does it matter what I'm wearing or what color my skin is or whether I 'respect' the criminal justice system?

I haven't been in court for many years besides licences, tabs, property transfers, exc. That still doesn't mean that the judge can tell me how to dress- if I were to testify on your behalf about your alibi on the night in question; does my credibility get thrown out of court because I'm wearing a cowboy hat? To me; that's the ultimate form of stupidity. ...


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## walleyecandy

Back to the original post. ...I asked why it's not allowed...there is no law against it.


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## zogman

*Do you take your muddy shoes off before you enter your mothers house ??? This room (court) is ruled by the judge. Seems pretty simple to me. Just basic Respect *


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## walleyecandy

We aren't entering my mother's house with muddy boots... I own a $300 stetson hat... I don't take that off at weddings either....

Why is it a supposed imposition to the judge for this kid to wear a hat?

Everyone seems to forget that the judge is a civil servant. Just as a police officer is. Or a county snowplow operator. Are we required to remove our hats anytime we are in their presence?

It's a hat! Who cares? It's not unsanitary -in fact it's more sanitary. My question still hasn't been answered -who gave the guy wearing a dress and holding the wooden hammer the authority to make some stupid rule of taking off a hat?

That room is not HIS either -no more than the patrol vehicle is owned by the officer. Or the plow is owned by the snowplow operator.

Lots of respect references... What about some respect for people's choices in clothing? No reason for taking off the hat imo...


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## huntin1

walleyecandy said:


> We aren't entering my mother's house with muddy boots... I own a $300 stetson hat... I don't take that off at weddings either....
> 
> Why is it a supposed imposition to the judge for this kid to wear a hat?
> 
> Everyone seems to forget that the judge is a civil servant. Just as a police officer is. Or a county snowplow operator. Are we required to remove our hats anytime we are in their presence?
> 
> It's a hat! Who cares? It's not unsanitary -in fact it's more sanitary. My question still hasn't been answered -who gave the guy wearing a dress and holding the wooden hammer the authority to make some stupid rule of taking off a hat?
> 
> That room is not HIS either -no more than the patrol vehicle is owned by the officer. Or the plow is owned by the snowplow operator.
> 
> Lots of respect references... What about some respect for people's choices in clothing? No reason for taking off the hat imo...


It may not be his room, but he gets to make the rules concerning what goes on in that room while he's there.

If anyone is going to wear a hat they should learn proper hat etiquette,

MEN'S HAT ETIQUETTE GUIDELINES

A gentleman should remove his hat as he enters a building, including a restaurant, home, classroom, theater, church. This rule includes baseball caps and casual hats. Hats are to be removed when inside, except for places that are akin to public streets, e.g., lobbies, corridors, and elevators in public buildings. In public buildings, the elevator is considered a public area, and therefore an area where a gentleman may leave his hat on.

http://www.levinehat.com/pages/hat-etiquette

It amounts to respect for others and we have way too little of that now days.

While there are no laws, we gave the judge the authority to make the rules concerning what goes on in his courtroom.

And I'll say this in the most respectful way I can, you refusing to remove your $300 Stetson indoors is just as crass as the kid who refuses to remove his ball cap, in my opinion of course.


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## zogman

walleyecandy said:


> That still doesn't mean that the judge can tell me how to dress- if I were to testify on your behalf about your alibi on the night in question; does my credibility get thrown out of court because I'm wearing a cowboy hat? To me; that's the ultimate form of stupidity. ...


*Watch the movie Cousin Vinnie oke: :rollin: *


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## walleyecandy

Alright, everybody needs to reread every post here...

For the record -I'm not the one who ASKED the question to myself. A early 20s kid who was trying to fight a ticket for an unattended car ticket is the one who asked me- I couldn't think of a reason why I would be obligated to remove clothing in a courthouse....

As far as anyone saying it's crass for me to leave my Stetson on- the only way I'm taking it off is by my choice. I choose to remove it before wakes/funerals/cemeteries as a sign of respect to who I'm say goodbye to.

It seems like there are a lot of people with opinions but just like anywhere else- nothing to back it up and prove it except for 'social convention'....

More people are getting wound up over a simple question over a stupid hat than 50 other topics that deserve a lot more attention. ...

If someone were to walk up to me in public and say- Take off your hat- I'm not at all kidding; I would never tolerate that! We have 1000s of non-English speaking people clucking away, drawing welfare/stamp, screaming kids running loose, loud talking jerks at nicer restaurants. .... but at least they aren't wearing hats! :shake:

Gotta watch those hat-wearing sinners! Don't let them fool you; they are sure suspicious... oke:


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## zogman

*WC try this link,*


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## walleyecandy

Some days I wish stupidity was painful....

Yet another irrelevant post....

Wearing a hat in court changes none of the facts. Period. If it does- then the person sitting behind the wooden gavel has no business judging anyone. He/she is emotional and weak willed-and has less than zero business passing judgment on anyone.

Who can't handle someone wearing a hat indoors?


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## zogman

walleyecandy said:


> Who can't handle someone wearing a hat indoors?


*And who can not show courtesy and respect for someone else???*

God Bless You, Grant you wisdom, patience, kindness and respect.


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## walleyecandy

Nobody deserves to be judged by whether or not they are wearing a hat. If they prefer someone to remove the hat- then it becomes a choice. And that is just...

But telling someone that it is disrespectful to wear a hat is not only odd- it borders on insulting. Way worse than the supposed disrespect that somehow is implied by wearing a hat in the presence of someone with delusions of grandeur...

When attending a funeral or wake- that is close to the only time I intentionally make a point to take off my hat. There are exceptions -a.e wedding, anthem, exc, exc. But those times are by my choice.

Do hats represent the devil? Evil? Terrorists? What? My hat is the same as my belt... It doesn't represent my religious beliefs, my credibility, or intentions. ..

A police officer doesn't remove his hat when he pulls someone over- a cowboy doesn't take his hat off before riding. .. is that disrespectful?

Nobody should ever be judged -especially BY the judge; just because they wear a hat -period. I understand if if you try to board an airplane and are wearing a turban or diaper or whatever that rag is- by all means, search them...but don't automatically assume they are the root of all evil.

It's just a hat! Lighten up or shut up and go about your business. If something as inconsequential as what I'm wearing on my head bothers you that much- keep walking and keep going. Because 7 out of 10 times -I don't really care about your thin skin- and telling me I'm disrespecting you by wearing my hat...that might get you assulted! At least a slap back to reality. ..


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## huntin1

Nice attitude, "I'm going to do whatever I want regardless of what others think." Apparently you've never sat in a theater, concert hall, or other public gathering behind someone wearing a cowboy hat. But hey, you don't care what others think of what you're wearing on your head. To others, it's inconsiderate and yeah, disrespectful. But go ahead and slap some sense into them. :shake:

My skin is far from thin and I don't give two sh#ts what you have on your head in most cases.

It's obvious that you don't care about what others think, so carry on, wear your hat whenever and wherever you see fit.


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## Sasha and Abby

Simple MANNERS... most people around here were taught at a young age to REMOVE their hat when they come INSIDE...


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## huntin1

Sasha and Abby said:


> Simple MANNERS... most people around here were taught at a young age to REMOVE their hat when they come INSIDE...


Yep, something this country is getting short of now days. That arrogant 'I'll do whatever I want, whenever I want, is so prevalent today that manners and decency are slowly disappearing.

And before you say, "It's just a hat for crissakes." It really isn't so much about the hat, it's about the respect and consideration that one should show to others.


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## walleyecandy

First- I don't wear a stetson to a movie theater ever.

Second- at what point did this turn into an argument over being 'respectful' in public? I was asked if there was a law specifically stating you MUST remove a hat in court.

I don't mean federal court- traffic court. ... Where half the people in there look like they haven't showered in 5 days, and are still in their pajamas.

Respect is shutting up during a movie -not whining because you choose to go to a public theater and got the 1 in 5000 person that wears a cowboy hat in front of you... More than likely -you are short, he is tall-that is why you can't see. Go sit up front.

The problem with society is- too many whiners... If you don't like my hat- shut up and walk away. If you want to get vocal or come take my hat- try that...

Usually -I wear a baseball cap, never sideways or backwards. ... How much of your view does that hinder? Ever?

Everyone complains about 'aggressive' people -I'm not aggressive or physically violent UNTIL someone pushes their luck with me. Or when they pick on the defenseless... If some kids are harassing an old man- I say knock it off and say go away...the escalation to violence comes when they want to try harassing me.

Why would some random person telling me when and where I'm 'allowed' to wear a hat? Shut up and walk away! There is no dress code in the free world moron. Now you are forcing your opinion on me-but I'm not allowed to tell you to stick your opinion in you a$$. I don't need to respect you until you earn the respect.


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## walleyecandy

Never in a 1000 years would I have guessed that of all the things that get people wound up- it's those hat wearing criminals!

I admit -stupid subject to even discuss. .. but nobody is offering a better topic, and I'm curious if I missed some mandated law somewhere.


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## huntin1

Ahh, you started this argument way back at the start of this thread when several people mentioned that no hats in court was a respect thing.

I'm a moron? You know me that well, do you. I think I'll take your advise and walk away, after all, I've heard it said that arguing with an idiot just drags you down to their level. So, you carry on, I'm walking.


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## indsport

Interesting discussion, but the rules my parents taught me are pretty much the same as the link for hat etiquette. Remove hat for national anthem, the flag, a funeral, someone's home, in church and one we always did, when reciting the pledge of allegiance. Removing a hat in court is governed by either custom or local law. In other states and jurisdictions, it is the law to remove a hat in court (the supreme court is just one example). It is usually customary and is done out of respect for the courtroom and the flag. Historically, it is just like the extension of the hand salute, removing a helmet or raising a visor to reveal your face and probably your intentions. If someone wants to be the only person in the room who insists on wearing a hat or ball cap, go ahead.


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## walleyecandy

Thank you indsport! That's literally the right answer- all I was wondering about was whether or not there was actually a law on paper requiring the removal of a hat in a courthouse. ..

Everyone else decided to play the respect card over, and over, and over,and over. .. It was a pretty simple question -didn't know some people just can't handle others wearing hats...

North1, I doubt you are a moron. Unless you think etiquette and laws are the same thing -or if you want to take my hat off for me- or you aren't intelligent enough to understand what's going to happen when you force your beliefs on others...

For the record, 
Don't argue with idiots; they drag you down to their level -and then beat you with experience. .. (I don't need to explain but- it's the level specifically as to where they CAN beat you)...

Again, I have never worn a hat in court -all I wanted to know was if it was illegal. I don't care if you want to wear a hat in my presence -take it off at the wake/funeral and don't think you are telling me where I can wear mine- everyone stays happy and whole! But- if you think you are going to walk up and take my hat off- I'm not above feeding that moron his teeth....

I'm not encouraging violence -I'm warning people that there are people who will not tolerate others walking up to them and assaulting them. A lot more of them will have even less sympathy towards your hat-wearing phobia...especially when you vocalize it...


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## walleyecandy

New set of questions---would anyone be inclined to remove their hat at the singing of another nation's anthem? Hockey games, Olympics, Soccer, exc. What if you are just watching tv?

What about another religion's version of the priest? How about a medicine man?

Does the Jewish yamaka violate anyone's indoor hat phobia?


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## indsport

It is not required for another nation's national anthem, but think of the example of cross border hockey with Canada. Since you should remove your hat for the US, why not just keep it off for the Canadian? If abroad, it doesn't do much good to keep your hat on when everyone else is taking theirs off. Watching television? No. There are exemptions for religious attire but it varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction (as far as I can determine).


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## Plainsman

:rollin: It's a hat, a hat, no one is telling you to cut off your left arm. It's a hat, not the execution of your first born.


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## zogman

*My question is.... What would your Mama want you to do??? Oh so its a $300 dollar Stetson which isn't very much for a GOOD Cowboy Hat.

I was involved with horses for alot of years. Most real Cowboys were some of the most respectful and polite folks to ever be around. Maybe your friend is a wantabe Cowboy. Better take a few more lessons. oke: :rollin: *


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## walleyecandy

My argument would be the same- it's just a hat. Why is a hat on some 24 year old kid's head such a problem?

There is a huge difference between: Please remove your hat, and take off your hat. I'm my opinion anyways.

I'm not saying I refuse to take off my hat for anthems, funerals, in church, exc, exc... It's when a judge says take off the hat now. Why? A sign stating Please remove hats while court is in session.... There, fine. But don't blow smoke up my a$$ and tell me it's about respect. It's disrespectful to people to say- we don't like your hat-remove it immediately!

What about other religions? The yamaka? I'm assuming that since you are use to it-it's acceptable. .. What about a muslim's turban?

If three guys walk into a church to donate for the bake sale- a muslim wearing a turban, a rancher wearing a cowboy hat, and a farmer wearing a baseball cap... Who gets kicked out first? And don't tell me there has never been a Muslim at a bake sale either...


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## walleyecandy

My mother wouldn't care if I had my hat on... She might actually start laughing when some random person walks up and says- Take off that hat!

I probably would start laughing too!

Again, reach for my hat...my personal clothing is none of anyone's business. Trying to be aggressive with me won't work out for them. And it's stupid to force a hat phobia on someone else!

I don't care if you don't like my hat! Shut it and keep walking. Go home and tell your mother how mean the bad man wearing the hat was...


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## walleyecandy

A $300 stetson isn't a nice hat? Really. .. Which end of the horse were you involved in? :laugh:


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## Plainsman

> Again, reach for my hat...


I didn't know crystal meth made people aggressive. :rollin:

Seriously though anyone trying to take another persons hat off deserves a broken arm, but I myself wouldn't go around telling people what I would do or some jackass is sure to do it.

I think someone who has to be told to take their hat off in court has been living in a cave somewhere.


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## zogman

walleyecandy said:


> A $300 stetson isn't a nice hat? :laugh:





Please post a picture of the hat in question. Thank you and have a great day. :beer:


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## walleyecandy

Is it too complicated for someone to look up stetson's website? You can buy over 90% of their hats for $300 or less.

I wasn't aware only meth heads wore hats...


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## walleyecandy

Plainsman, can you imagine how busy the emergency room and the police department would be across the nation if the general public decided to remove hats off people's heads?

And I completely grasp this idea that wearing a hat in public is against popular etiquette -what I don't understand is why. And that is why I'm going to wear my hat anywhere I want.if I choose to remove it -I will. Because that's my right. Whether it be because of freedom of expression or because I'm strong willed and don't care if some loudmouthed went too long between a$$-kickings- if you open your mouth about it, be prepared to hear the hat wearer's opinion. Yet another right!

All these are just opinions -besides the fact that some judges allow hats, some do not. My peers do not judge people on whether or not they have a hat on.

I'd prefer the courts remain blind to the way people dress, look, or speak. If the personal appearance becomes a deciding factor in judgment -we are in a lot of trouble!

A hat doesn't make you a criminal. 
Old doesn't mean senile.
Young doesn't mean stupid.
Black doesn't make you a gang banger.
All lawyers aren't crooks.
Being on NoDak forum shouldn't make you close minded. ..


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## huntin1

> Being on NoDak forum shouldn't make you close minded


And yet....... never mind, still walking.


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## Plainsman

Walleye did someone pee in your Wheaties? :wink:


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## Chuck Smith

Here is my take on this....

If a judge asks you to remove it do it out of respect. It is "his" court room. It is like if you walk into someone's home and sit down at the dinner table and they ask you to remove it... You do so out of respect.

Here is another example. If you go into a home and you see all the shoes get taken off at the front door.... do you do it??? Or do you keep your shoes on?

I agree that if people want to wear one they should. Just like all other rights. But if someone asks you to remove it.... you do it as a courtesy.


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## walleyecandy

I agree with Chuck about shoes- no reason to track into someone's house. .. But the analogy between shoes and hats doesn't make sense.

It really comes down to the choice... If it is just because the judge doesn't like it- well, there are lots of things I don't like but I keep quiet and do them.

How does the hat affect the wearer's credibility? It's a lot like a tattoo... Or a beard... It doesn't have any determination of what the facts are- it's just personal preference.

Peeing in Wheaties probably wouldn't effect their taste- they are boring, bland, and dull... That is how the topics were becoming on NoDak. I was trying to spice up the discussion a bit- apparently I peed in huntin1's cheerios... But after skimming through his previous posts and him repeatedly NOT walking away...I'm neither intrigued, nor impressed with anything he says. But I do support his right to say it! eace: :thumb:

Hopefully someday I will find a 'nice' stetson I can afford! Cause $300 is just not enough to buy a quality item... oke:


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## walleyecandy

The main problem I have with taking off the hat in court is really because it changes nothing to the decision after the facts are presented. Except to the judge.

Apparently the hat is evidence! Obviously the hat destroyed credibility. Ridiculous. :shake:


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## Habitat Hugger

I've been in several other countries at events where their particular national anth is played nor sung. Seems pretty universal that hats ( not religious apparel though) come off and people stand at attention and face their flag if it is present. I only remember one or two where the right hand is placed over the heart, though! 
What do I do? When in Rome do as the Romans do....mostly a matter of courtesy.....if I were at a hockey game in Russia because I would do as the Russians do it wouldn't mean I agree or support them, just being courteous!
I avoid courtrooms like the plague, if possible! LOL


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## walleyecandy

That's an interesting point. ... To do it out of courtesy... That would be another time when it becomes a choice. All I'm saying is: I want the choice, otherwise it needs to be a law on the books. Not religious presidence or a matter of respect.

Respect is not automatically given out. It's earned. I'm defending the rights of those who prefer to wear a hat. Not because of religious affiliation necessarily. I'm defending the child with cancer who is taking chemotherapy and is more comfortable wearing the hat, the working class who are sweaty/filthy after work getting groceries, the military vet who wears a hat in pride of service. ...exc.

Anyone have a problem with them?


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## Plainsman

I think it requires common sense. People realize why a child or an adult with cancer wears a hat. People understand a soldier in uniform wears a hat, but ever one I have seen takes off their hat when old Glory goes up.

I guess I have the opposite opinion as you when it comes to respect. You say people have to earn your respect. I automatically give respect to all. They must do something wrong to destroy that respect. Many people who are respectable don't have the time or feel the need to expend effort to gain anothers respect. As a matter of fact they may loose respect for people who demand they earn theirs. There is always trouble lurking for those who actively seek it.

When you meet someone new do you inform them they must earn your respect? They may not be aware of your requirement. I'm sure they will fall right in line when informed.


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## Chuck Smith

Walleye....

If you go into someone's home and if they asked you to take off your hat would you? Or if it was back in school and a teacher asked you to take off your hat in their class room.... Would you?

Plainsman....

I am with you. People have my respect before I even meet them. Their actions will deem if they keep my respect or not. I mean if you don't respect people before you meet them.... They way don't you park too close to everyone? No you try to center your car in its spot....correct?? Another example.... if you don't respect others before you meet them... why don't you just budge in line at the grocery store or jump in front of that person in the grocery store to grab the product off the shelf. No you say excuse me and then reach in. That my friend is showing respect. Yes it is small but you are doing showing respect by saying excuse me or waiting your turn.



> VERB
> 1.admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements:
> "she was respected by everyone she worked with" ·
> 
> synonyms: esteem · admire · think highly of · have a high opinion of ·
> 
> •*have due regard for the feelings, wishes, rights, or traditions of:*
> "I respected his views"
> 
> synonyms: show consideration for · have regard for · observe ·
> 
> •avoid harming or interfering with:
> *"it is incumbent upon all boaters to respect the environment"*
> 
> •agree to recognize and abide by (a legal requirement):
> "he urged all foreign nationals to respect the laws of their country of residence"
> 
> *synonyms: abide by · comply with · follow · adhere to ·*


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## Chuck Smith

Also you are forgetting the main thing.....

A judge when in that court room.... rules all. What I mean is if he deems something offensive, or inappropriate he deals with it. Just like what has been said before. His courtroom, his rules. Just like a parent or teacher. In their home/classroom they have the rules. As long as it doesn't violate any civil rights. Clothing isn't civil rights unless it is a religious garment of some type. Baseball caps, cowboy hats, stocking caps, etc.... are not apart of protected clothing under civil rights. So the judge can make people take them off in "his" courtroom while he is in control.

If you don't think he has these rights. How come he can have people removed? He can ban certain things? etc.

You also asked who gave them this control.... our justice system.

Now I know it doesn't seem right or correct. But our justice system gave him this power. People should give him the respect because he took the steps to get where he is and the job he has.

DISCLAIMER: Not knowing all the facts of the case you are talking about or having any history of the case this is my opinion.

You also asked "how can wearing a hat in a courtroom change the facts".... well if the judge asks the person to remove it and then they don't. That show disobedience. Now lot of times courts look at other factors in different cases... like criminal history, behavioral history, etc. Do you think that not taking off a hat when asked shows some behavioral history or maybe someone who likes to "buck" authority??? Which then could effect the out come of the case at hand??

Here is a bigger issue and a problem in society IMHO.... why didn't the kid take off his hat when asked by someone in power??? It also goes along the same lines (but at a much smaller scale) why aren't these people who are getting shot by police not listening to them when given an order or command??? Yes one is more life and death. Yet it was a command/request by someone in power and it was disobeyed. I mean should we not listen to anyone in power anymore?


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## walleyecandy

I don't disagree with that way of looking at how people should be respectful -but respect by the definition of: a feeling of deep admiration for for someone or something elicited by their abilities, qualities, or achievements. ... This applies to everyone?

How does that apply to everyone walking around? That isn't respect -that's being respectful. Which IMHO -very different. For instance, excuse me. ...you are in the way... That's respectful to ask them to move...

Respect is what doctors, firemen, soldiers, exc should automatically deserve for their qualities/achievements. They have earned respect. Parents and grandparents deserve respect.

However, my personal opinion is- I'm respectful to the general public but they don't have my respect yet. You have to do something or show you are worthy of respecting. ...

I call this generation The Good Enough Generation... Everyone made the team, everyone got a trophy, everyone is required to pass education by 60%.... That doesn't deserve respect -however, it doesn't warrant being disrespectful to them because they are part of that generation. Earn respect -earn friendship.

The matter of removing my hat in someone else's house - which I have never experienced or even heard of- except at the table during prayer... Totally acceptable if it's a choice. Otherwise say- Take off your hat or leave. In that instance, I may get up- respectfully say thank you and leave. Only because I feel that is rude to act like you are my keeper. It's your house, do as you wish in your house- but if you are a Satan worshipper or kill puppies as a pass time. ...don't expect me to respect that!

The back story to the original question is:
24 year old walks into court to dispute an unattended vehicle ticket. He had never been in court before. He has a 4.0 average in college. He also had a hat on, clean and said MSU. The judge singled him out and said remove your hat immediately- he had not even sat down yet.. When his turn came to testify on his behalf -the judge said 'guilty pay the fine'... No explanation. Just passed his verdict. .. The kid is rightfully mad because he feels he was judged (and disrespected) by his 'peer' for his hat- not because his car overheated and quit. He had receipts for the new thermostat installed the next day. But he wore a hat into traffic court-so he was automatically guilty.


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## walleyecandy

A civil judge is still held accountable to the Federal and/or the Supreme Court -which is basically a jury of judges which are HIS/HER peers. Majority rules still apply -he is no king or monarch. The judge can control the courtroom but don't misinterpret that as All-Powerful.

His position was given to him/her under oath to remain fair and just. His/her position requires them to remain unbiased -in my opinion; that was not fair or unbiased.


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## Chuck Smith

Couple things.... You are correct and I agree with being respectful.

Also on the courtroom... still his courtroom, his rules. If he requires hats off.... take your hat off. Again if you want to be in that court room take it off. Maybe the man was singled out because he was the only one with a hat on. Maybe the judge did this as others walked into the court but this kid wasn't around when it happened as well.

Now onto the case. Yes it does seem the judge acted quickly and really didn't let the man have his day in court. Now if this kid never got to say one word then the judge is wrong. Because our legal system allows for everyone to plea their case in front of a court/judge. If you were not there then u don't know 100% sure if he didn't get a chance to speak. The reason for making the person take off his hat I have no issue with. It is not letting him have his day in court that is the issue.

I have been in and out of courtrooms and watched such case.  Yes his car broke down, he was trying to get if fixed, etc. Yet it was unattended. In college I got a snow parking ticket. I didn't move my car to the other side of the road. My car had broken down that night and I limped into that parking spot. I went in just like this kid did and gave my side of the story.... I had it towed the next day and had it written that the tow truck scheduled me for that next day because of other jobs he was on. So again I was doing everything in my power other than putting it in neutral and pushing it to the other side of the street. Judge still gave me the fine. Now he let me give my case but still ruled against me. I would have issue with the judge if he didn't let the man speak.


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## walleyecandy

On YouTube 
copblock.org
wearing a hat is not a crime

If it would let me paste the address I would -nodak and Droid technology apparently don't play well together. I'm 800 miles from my computer -so, this will have to do.

This guy is NOT my friend but the video violates everything I believe that the courts should be held accountable for...

We have inalienable rights- which I believe everyone has to have. It's not just because of a hat either... It's the problem with society- in my opinion.

Everyone in that video who went along with any arrest and didn't stop it should be arrested and thrown in jail. Indefinitely, until they can pass an exam on the Bill of Rights. Then never allowed to hold public office of any kind.


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## Chuck Smith

Walleye.... you are correct. Wearing a hat isn't a crime.

This kid in your example didn't get charged with wearing a hat. He didn't get a ticket or fine from the court for wearing a hat.

He was asked to remove a hat in the judges courtroom. Which again is his courtroom and his rules. Just like in a classroom.... a teacher sets rules and people must abide by them.

I had a baseball coach in college where his rule was when the team was eating in a restaurant you had to take your hat off if food was in front of you. If you didn't the team paid the price. Again....his team his rules.

I think that is what you are totally missing here. I know u want to play the card of civil servant and he works for us and all that crap. But you are missing the fact that it is his courtroom when he is present and again his rules. He can establish rules and make everyone in that room follow them. As long as the rules are not infringing on any PROTECTED class by law or violating any rights. No were in the bill of rights does it say people are entitled to wear a hat.

The bigger issue is if the kid didn't get to plea his case to the judge... IE: Didn't have his due process with the court system. And if the judge didn't allow this because of the "hat". Then that is violation. But if the judge let the kid speak his case and then still ruled against him with out bearing judgment because he wore his hat in his court room. Then there is no issue.

The thing you have to look at was the car unattended?? Yes. Even though it was broken and the kid got it fixed and working... Yet it was unattended. You are right there is common sense that maybe the judge could have showed some leeway. But he didn't he went by the book to the letter. It sucks but happened.

Another story from me. I work about 2 blocks from city hall. On my way to work I stopped into city hall and dropped off some stuff. Hopped into my car and as I pulled out onto the street got flashing lights and cop behind me. He came up and said, "i am giving you a ticket for no seat belt". I told him you saw me pull out of city hall parking spot and I was only going up to my office right there. He said you didn't have your seat belt on. He was correct.... but common sense would be to give me a warning and not a ticket.... but yet by the letter of the law... I was wrong.

So again... the real issue is if the judge didn't let the kid speak his case because of the hat. Not the hat in the court room.


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## indsport

Did a little reading. In New Hampshire, having to remove your hat is written policy and the law in some jurisdications (you should see the dress code for jurors). The man in question was originally asked to remove his hat by the bailiff (not the judge) and confirmed it himself in his own FB blog post. Further, the man was cited and convicted in a separate trial for contempt of court for wearing the hat. The judgment on the original case was separate from the hat issue. End of story. As I posted earlier, the laws and code of conduct in court varies from state to state. As to North Dakota, there is a list of dress code for jurors but it doesn't come anywhere close to being as strict as other states. BTW, cutoffs and tuxedos are specifically mentioned in the ND instructions to jurors. :rollin: I wonder if top hats are banned? As to in someone's home, I have been asked to remove it in a number of places. Out here in North Dakota, never. I agree with Plains, respect is automatically given until proven otherwise.


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## walleyecandy

So, if that hat says Lutheran Social Services on it... Suddenly it's religious? Thus legal.

My point, and only point really is: It's a ridiculous 'law'. Which it isn't a law.

We as citizens are way over-governed by condescending individuals who are in love with Victorian England's version of law. I understand we need rules and an enforcement division to uphold those laws. But seriously.

Being respectful of others may be necessary but implying respect for everyone, no questions asked is neither possible nor probable. Everyone judges people by appearances -whether or not they admit it or not.

Protect and serve is now Ticket and collect.

Your seat belt ticket was ridiculous- we aren't a free nation when there are laws in place to collect fines like that. Freedom of choice to wear a seat belt is common sense.

The story I was told by the 24 year old was that he was given zero opportunity to defend himself. He was interrupted every time he started talking. The judge had a diaper full of something and a chip on his shoulder.


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## walleyecandy

I may have stumbled on a sure fire way to be dismissed from jury duty! :rollin: :lol:

If the powers that be don't want my hat in court....I have zero issue with that! Me and my hat will leave. :beer:

Have fun in court.


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## Plainsman

walleyecandy said:


> I may have stumbled on a sure fire way to be dismissed from jury duty! :rollin: :lol:
> 
> If the powers that be don't want my hat in court....I have zero issue with that! Me and my hat will leave. :beer:
> 
> Have fun in court.


I am willing to bet the judge would take a dim view. You could get high with contempt or something like that. If your going to give that a try please post two days in advance so we can come and watch.


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## walleyecandy

I need a vacation anyways. ...between ice covered roads and 4 major snowfalls in 5 weeks...it might be a nice break!

I'm surprised no one took the bait on me wearing a LSS logo hat...are we that touchy about religion? I wouldn't think so when people act like I told them their dog is worthless -when all I was doing was asking a simple question! :bop:

Apparently, respect is the answer... Not the detailed answer I was looking for but yeah!

I know some have referred to being raised to know how to dress I'm court- which to me is comical because my friend's parents never considered it necessary to teach him how to dress in court. ... maybe they never expected him to need to know how to dress in court... huh...

And aren't your parents the same people that told you a fat white man flies reindeer down from the north to deliver presents? Or there is a rabbit hiding colored eggs and chocolate to commemorate resurrection and crucrusifiction? Or tooth fairies leave money under your pillow? At some point- wasn't the world flat?

We grow out of things- and learn new behavior... I was raised to question authority -to be independent and think for myself. It's my opinion -and my right to have it- that in the public courtroom, I shouldn't be judged for wearing a hat. If the judge says remove it -I probably will. But what if I'm the only witness with information on some extremely important subject and I'm not saying $hit unless I can wear my hat? What if I knew the cure for cancer- is my opinion or knowledge in contempt of court because of my hat?

All ridiculous analogies! But Abe Lincoln wore a stupid looking hat and nobody harassed him- except that last guy... oke:


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## walleyecandy

I wonder what would happen if they subpoena you to court and you refused to remove the hat? Refuse your testimony that you were forced to be there for? Send you to jail because they forced you to be there and you didn't meet the dress code?


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## walleyecandy

Can I wear a powdered wig?


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## zogman

WC, to help you answer some of your bogus questions I will say it again "watch the movie My Cousin Vinnie".
That is the way it works. :rollin: :bop: oke: :rollin:

*And I bet honest Abe took that hat off in the Courtroom :rollin: *


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## Plainsman

If there is a murder trial or any other trial that needs security I often do the security. I have only seen the bailiff ask a couple of people to remove their hats. They had about the same number of teeth as fingers and looked like they last bathed on their original birthday. I think it did get them off jury duty. 
I do know a couple of ( distant relatives actually) people very attached to their Stetsons. Both paid much attention to their hair in high school. Now they have no hair. I often wonder if they sleep with their hat.


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## walleyecandy

Zogman- I got the multiple references to your favorite movie EVER... However, after the judge tells me to remove my hat- my response will NOT be: I saw on this movie once...

Doubtful my opinion on wearing a hat inspired My Cousin Vinny. ...

Nobody wants to be on jury duty- and some of my comments are to provoke thought... I don't care if you don't agree- I'm not taking my hat off until I decide I want to. Plainsman wrote- take a hat, get your arm broken... But I'm the savage! Haha Riiiiiight!


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## Plainsman

Good grief wallet no one called you a savage. If someone you don't know comes up and knocks your hat off yup he deserves a broken arm. I would restrain myself because I don't want to get sued. However people who act like that are likely looking for a confrontation, so you better be ready to defend yourself. 
We are products of our experience. Prejudice means pre-judging, and I still judge people individually. I have to repress my experiences to do that. I say that because most people I see wearing a hat inappropriately are either very ignorant, arrogant, ashamed of being bald, self centered, etc but you don't know which. You say people must earn your respect. I think that is arrogant. I think people have to destroy the respect I automatically give. Wear a hat in court, church, my house etc, and your not bald and your on your way to losing some of my respect. I will be observing further behavior to decide if your worthy of any respect. I am sure many people think as I do. Common courtesy is becoming uncommon.


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## Chuck Smith

Walleye....

I will answer your LLS question...(I finally logged back in this morning). If you were wearing that hat it is not considered "religious" because it says Luthern on it. It has to be a religious garb. Like a muslim woman wearing a hijab, a jewish man wearing a yamaka. It has to be something that your religion requires you to wear all the time. IE: it would be breaking your religious belief to take it off. Now if you can form a religion that says wearing a Stetson out in public is what is required.... you get that to become a recognized religion. go for it. :thumb:

Now onto your other questions.... 
1. If you got subpoenaed to court to testify and decided not to take off your hat when asked.
- You would be found in contempt of court.
- Face jail time or a fine if not wanting to comply
***The lawyer who requested you to show up would coach you on want to wear and how to act in court before hand. So really a non-issue.

2. Parents teaching kids how to dress in court.
- I was brought up to dress nice in many occasions or when you want to be looked upon in a good light. 
- I was taught not to wear hats at dinner tables.
- I was taught to respect people in authority and if they ask you to do something and it didn't violate you, cause you harm or others harm, wasn't illegal, didn't destroy property, didn't go against the moral code which my parents raised me or which I have constructed myself, etc. You do it.
**** I hope you get the point that taking off a hat really doesn't hurt you or anyone around you. It is a very very minimal request.

WC... If you have never seen the movie or remember the movie "my cousin vinny"...

- Vinny is a guy who just got his law degree and is from new York. Goes to a small town in the south to defend his cousin in a trumped up crime. First day in the court room he shows up in a leather jacket no collared shirt. Stuffy old school judge asks what he is wearing. Vinny sees nothing wrong in what he is wearing.... judge says you wear a suit and tie in my court room and finds him in contempt of court and jails him. He is not allowed back in court until he meets the judges requirements. This goes on throughout the movie. Now this was meant to be funny but is what would happen in real life... It has happened in real life.


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## Plainsman

Removing ones hat in court, church, at the table etc is the norm. Not doing so is showing disrespect for those around you. Don't expect others to show you respect after you have shown them disreslect. I am sure that's how a judge looks at it.


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## walleyecandy

I understand the entire principles of the dress code and no hats theory... But IMHO -it's not right.

But I also believe random other things like:

Overweight is not a disability. ..
Taxes should be based on a 40hr week-all overtime should be tax free....
My clothing -if not racially offensive -is my choice. ..
People should retake their driving exam when they renew their license. ...
An eye for an eye...
To protect and serve...
To defend anyone that can't defend themselves. 
Respect elders...

Yes, I said it! Haha.

I am a savage in many ways -I'm not afraid to voice my opinions, blood does not bother me, I'd rather hunt my food than order it, I'm not threatened by bodily harm, I work like a dog-I use to play just as hard (I got old)-I believe in iron fist parenting without violence (you don't like the rules-go on your own and show the world how independent and how you know everything)- among other things that don't come to mind.

Oh, I was making a joke of subpoenas.... But what if!


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## walleyecandy

BTW -I've seen My Cousin Vinny. I get the reference. Yes, it was a funny movie but doesn't reflect the reality in court really. ..which is- in my opinion flawed. But I don't agree with a lot of laws- including 'implied' laws.

I will take my hat off in court when I'm asked politely -otherwise I will return the same/lack of 'respect' I'm shown... (see what I did there?)
oke:

Take a breath -I'm kidding around.


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## zogman

*I would really like to see a picture of this hat. Can you post a selfie???*


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## walleyecandy

I can't even figure out how to post a website link... haha.

And it's not my Stetson in question, but if you need to get a general idea...it's a black- deluxe skyline technically but with the band and after being reshaped to what I like- it's a deluxe custom high end hat.

A cowboy hat is like an 870.... It's almost impossible to say it's generic -factory, or stainless engraved pistol grip laser sights rifled barrel. ...wingmaster. .. express... blah, blah blah...


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## Plainsman

> I will take my hat off in court when I'm asked politely -otherwise I will return the same/lack of 'respect' I'm shown... (see what I did there?)


  Yes I see what you did. You crapped on the judge and now you want him to respect you. oke:



> Take a breath -I'm kidding around.


I was suspecting that, but I was also worried your dog died, your pickup broke down, the cows are out, the wife ran away with the Watkins salesman, your mother-in-law got out of prison etc. :rollin:


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## walleyecandy

I don't crap on anyone by wearing a hat -not intentionally anyways! I just think taking my hat off every time I walk in a building makes as much sense as bowing... Or wearing a powdered wig...or getting mad that there is someone else in 'your' public hunting spot.

My cows stay in the freezer most of the time now. Crop prices only matter if I play the futures market. My truck did need a new battery last week- but it's older than 10 years so (wish I could get new parts for myself).... I asked my wife for a divorce for xmas- she said she wasn't planning on spending that much on me this year, oh well, maybe next year... I've had 4 dogs die in 4 years (all over 10 years old)-you have to get a tortoise or a tree to last much longer....good news on taxes though-since I had $45k in repairs on my semi, don't have to pay a lot in (ummmm, wait a second. ..).....

Just because the majority of the masses are crocheting, playing badminton, listening to a golf game, or searching for Bigfoot -doesn't mean I'm going to start doing that to...

Is it easier to just have the judge say: please remove the hat....or take that hat off or else?

You will pull me A LOT easier than you will push me... I personally find it disrespectful to force your opinion and culture on me- that's how I see the no hat rule. But- that doesn't mean I'm going to jail for it either! I will conform under protest but I'm not a sheep that blindly follows... Give me space and don't back me in a corner -I will stand my ground. And I'm the mellow one of my friends! Haha


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## redlabel

This may be the second silliest discussion I have seen, and I can't remember the silliest.

Society consists of norms, (Folkways, Mores, Taboos, and Laws) and they are the agreed-upon 
expectations and rules by which the members of a culture behave.

We all have about 20 seconds to make a first impression and we only get one chance at it.

A person who did not, or worse, would not when asked remove their hat would make a poor 
first impression with me.


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## walleyecandy

After a lot of personal opinions and beating the respect card proverbial drum repeatedly- I asked a former judge... He said- quote: there are a small percentage of judges that held onto a stupid tradition that under no circumstances should effect ant decision inside a courthouse....

Respect huh? Nope.
Silly tradition? Yep

There are actually places in America that judge you on the facts and not what you wear on your head! Image that? Wouldn't it be something unheard of?

Now- again -just my opinion. ...but, who cares about a hat? It doesn't matter what is on your head- it's facts that decide who is at fault, innocent, and/or guilty. Not someone's stupid hat.

It's ignorant to pass judgment on someone because they wear a hat. Anyone who has some kind of opinions on hat wearers is the idiot.

Silly topic? Have you read any of these threads? They turn into personal jabs at each other 90 percent of the time... it's a big joke and also annoys 99% of the people that read them. And we wonder why we loose rights and the antis divided and beat us- stupid arguments over stupid crap. Like this!

You want to know where the law against hats is? There isn't one... This use to be America. Now it's a bunch of whine ***** beating a drum and acting like they have accomplished something.


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## redlabel

walleyecandy said:


> And we wonder why we loose rights and the antis divided and beat us- stupid arguments over stupid crap. Like this!


Now then it should be lose, not loose. People that can't spell do not make a good impression with me either.

So you brought this stupid crap here, looking for a stupid argument. Then when people poked you back you did not handle it very well.

Anyway here is some further reading on the hat in court thing.

Lawyer can't wear baseball hat in court

David L. Hudson Jr.
First Amendment Scholar
Monday, June 20, 2011

A lawyer has no First Amendment or 14th Amendment due-process right to wear baseball hats and casual attire in a courtroom, a federal appeals court has ruled.

New York-based attorney Todd C. Bank wore an "Operation Desert Storm" baseball hat in the Civil Court of New York in March 2008 while handling a landlord-tenant case. Judge Anne Katz and Senior Court Clerk Jude Albano ordered him to remove the hat and admonished him about not dressing formally enough.

Bank responded with a federal lawsuit, alleging a violation of his constitutional rights. In September 2009, a federal district judge dismissed his complaint.

Bank appealed to the 2nd Circuit, which also rejected his complaint in its June 16 decision in Bank v. Katz. A three-judge panel unanimously affirmed the lower court in a summary order. The appeals court noted that speech restrictions in a courtroom are constitutional as long as they are reasonable and viewpoint-neutral.

Bank did not contend that Katz singled him out for any viewpoint he expressed, so the question boiled down to whether the restrictions were reasonable. The 2nd Circuit said they were, writing that "the presiding judge is charged with the responsibility of maintaining proper order and decorum."

Bank also argued that the prohibition on his dress also amounted to a due-process violation. The appeals court was equally dismissive, reasoning that the restrictions "were rationally related to the legitimate governmental purpose of maintaining order and decorum in the courtroom."


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## Habitat Hugger

Good reference Red! Anecdotally I know that if any lawyer I hired showed up in court in cut offs and a dirty T shirt, and a hat I'd find a replacement really quick' if he didn't know that basic thing I'd run away quick! But that's me...,,

As far as a plaintiff not getting his say because the judge cut him off, partly it would be a " he says-she says" thing, but more importantly there are rules that once the plaintiff or expert witness makes a point, you can't keep calling further witnesses or keep saying the same point over and over. I understand that this is to prevent wasting the already too busy courtrooms time! Being his own lawyer, he might not realize that. Make your argument short concise and to the point, then shut up!


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## walleyecandy

Redlabel-

Your biggest issue in society is spelling? :withstupid:

That's how you pass judgment on people is grammar? :roll:

Add another o to loser. :bop:

A lawyer can't wear a hat.... A LAWYER. ... Your title quote- not mine.

I refer to this as a stupid argument because it's a stupid rule that is NOT a law. Anyone believing that a hat has any effect or affect on the outcome of a criminal court verdict of any kind is in my opinion, an a$$.


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## Plainsman

If the defendant wears a hat you know he is guilty.


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## redlabel

It's been a pretty slow day so I'll bite.

I think poor spelling may be an example of something wrong
with our education system.

I do not pass judgement on people because they spell poorly 
or use grammar incorrectly, however they typically do not make 
a good first impression with me.

Spelling and grammar are not the same but spelling is a part of 
grammar.

*spelling
noun

Definition of SPELLING

1. : the forming of words from letters according to accepted usage : orthography
2.
a: a sequence of letters composing a word b: the way in which a word is spelled

Other Grammar and Linguistics Terms
ablaut, allusion, anacoluthon, diacritic, gerund, idiom, infinitive, metaphor, semiotics, simile

gram·mar
noun \ˈgra-mər\

Definition of GRAMMAR
1. a: the study of the classes of words, their inflections, and their functions and relations in the sentence b: a study of what is to be preferred and what avoided in inflection and syntax
2. a: the characteristic system of inflections and syntax of a language b: a system of rules that defines the grammatical structure of a language
3. a: a grammar textbook b: speech or writing evaluated according to its conformity to grammatical rules
4. : the principles or rules of an art, science, or technique ; also: a set of such principles or rules*

My Daddy used to tell me that you can't teach common sense. When he found those without it he often said, "that boy has about as much common sense as a sack of hammers, it's too bad that boy ain't had no proper fetching up." He was also fond of saying "it doesn't do any good to beat a dead horse."


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## Plainsman

> it's too bad that boy ain't had no proper fetching up


 :rollin:

I like that. They be a whole bunch of them thar in Ferguson, Baltimore etc. :thumb:


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## walleyecandy

Guilty based solely on wearing a hat huh....

That could be the dumbest thing I've heard yet

Sounds like someone haven't had there geritol this week...

And btw- why don't you look up condescension while you have the Wikipedia up and running. ... Cause if you continue to talk down to people; all it does is show how how insecure you are.

And again, this is a forum-not an English assignment in high school. The same people I hated in high school and college are apparently on here, more interested in grammar than the point of the thread...

Earn some respect instead of expecting it. Bunch of babies more concerned about the next Glen beck show than what's really happening right in front of you.


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## redlabel

Geez, my opening said it's a slow day, so I'll bite. You should look up "facetious" for an 
understanding of my responses.

I just decided to oke: since I could see no point to this thread.


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## walleyecandy

Can a chicken hawk bite?

It sounds alot like your dad was Foghorn Leghorn...

Using your thesaurus to make yourself sound intelligent only makes you look ridiculous. ..


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## walleyecandy

If you see no point in this thread. ..why do you insist on telling us your opinion? Shut up and bury your head back in your posterior. ..

The point is-

A judge should never pass judgment based on his personal opinion. The facts are the ONLY things that matter in court.

Do I need to get the crayons out for you redlabel? The only thing you post about is you dog and Foghorn Leghorn quotes... Foghorn is suppose to be funny -not life lessons.


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## TomasR8714

Wearing a hat or cap is disrespectful in front of judges. So you can't wear one.


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## redlabel

walleyecandy said:


> The only thing you post about is you dog


Thanks for reminding me, I hadn't gotten around to that yet.

Oh, and it should be "your" not "you" dog(s)


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## walleyecandy

I get the theory on the supposed disrespect aspect of a hat in court- but why are some judges offended by it while others are not?

It is not a law. There is no reason for people to be getting bent about it. .. There certainly is no reason for a judge to act like what is on someone's head is a legit reason to pass judgment on them.

Redlabel- Your ignorance is showing. Go play spell check somewhere else. Someone way smarter than you came up with predictive text.... Which in my opinion -I've scraped smarter things than you off my boots....but even though you are 'special', I'll defend your right to free speech. While wearing my hat of course! Haha

Subpoena me to court- then kick me out for being in contempt of court. ... I really can't wait till jury duty notice!

I was taught to question everything -and part of being an adult is NOT following the herd off a cliff... I want reasons and explanations for things... There is absolutely no reason for a dress code in traffic court. If the judge says politely 'please remove your hat' I probably will but I will ask why.... There better be a better explanation than respect.


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## walleyecandy

Congrats Tomas on your 1st post! Welcome to the most trivial conversation ever! It's great.


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## redlabel

Wow, agreement here in that it is a silly topic.

I'm not sure why your responses are so filled with name calling and insults although I have some suspicions. Your first response if you don't agree seems to be name calling and that may be why you like predictive text rather than coming up with your own vocabulary. So it makes me think.

Maybe you need to wear a cowboy hat all the time because you are short. Short people often have inferiority complexes and try to look important in other ways.

Or it could be you are covering up a bald pattern on your head. Many people that wear hats do it to cover baldness. Although I'm not sure you are very old judging by your reference to cartoon characters.

You brag about how expensive your hat is, maybe buying an expensive hat makes up for being sexually inadequate or part of your anatomy is small.

You talk about hating people in high school and college so maybe you were and still are not well liked, so trying to cut down other people makes you feel better.

Maybe you have Mommy issues or are mad at your Mother. It's possible you are the way you are because you were dropped on your head when you were little. Maybe more than once.

Or then, maybe you just are a mean, nasty person naturally.

I belong to and frequent forums for hunting, golf, motorcycling, RV's (class A Motor Homes) and have met and made a lot of friends on them. The one thing they have in common is whenever there is a poster who's main interest is to just stir up controversy, the moderators eliminate the problem. Otherwise the websites become not very viable for those trying to share ideas.

Oh, gotta go, the puppy woke up.


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## walleyecandy

I'm neither short, old, bald or whatever other crutch you think I have. ...

Or was that an admission of all the problems in your pathetic existence? Save them for the therapist.

I make up words instead of using predictive text?.... Now that's the dumbest yet....in a long line of dumb statements. (That's saying a LOT)....

Why are you so concerned about posting? You haven't said anything yet... All you do is whine like the chicken hawk....


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## walleyecandy

Light colored eyes are light sensitive. ...I wear a $150 pair of sunglasses too... My spotting scope cost 3 times as much as my Stetson...

Any idea what expensive equipment equals? Quality (more times than not!)


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## redlabel

Dang boy, you've shown you are not a very good speller so I should have known you were not able to read for comprehension. It's too bad this wasn't in person so I could talk real slow so you would understand. Maybe you could have a friend read it to you.

I have to stop, it's not fair when the other person is at this big of a disadvantage.


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## walleyecandy

Instead of cowering behind your computer trying to be condescending and still not contributing what-so-ever to any conversation- why don't you be a grown up and stop instigating arguments? You are probably missed on your rv forum anyways. ..

You can always send a pm about where and when you want to read the post to me in person. ... See where that gets you... Not a threat- just pointing out what obviously will happen when you take condescension to the in-person level...

You may want to reread what will happen when you reach for my hat. I've made it pretty clear what the thread means- it's not so much the hat being removed as it is that justice should be blind. The facts are the facts- no hat, skin tone, gender, religion, or anything of that nature should matter....


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## walleyecandy

Since we obviously can't stay on topic- it's riddle time...

Staying with the chicken hawk theme....

Does anyone know what the white speck on top of a pile of chicken $hit is?

That's chicken $hit too...

Foghorn Leghorn was around august 31 of 1946...


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## Plainsman

Kept waiting for this, but since no one else has posted it I thought I would. Great song.


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## Chuck Smith

Walleye...

Most of the time Justice is blind. Also when someone comes into court and is asking for leniency one better listen to the judge.

Like you stated in the case. The person with the parking ticket was in the wrong by the letter of the law. He went into court to plea his case and ask for leniency because of the circumstances. Then when a judge asks him to remove his hat or he didn't have his hat removed before entering the court room. That acted showed disrespect in that judges eyes and he didn't grant that person leniency. He stuck to the letter of the law. Like why should I bend the rules for this person who isn't showing me respect. I hope now u get the picture.

Also here is something for you..... So say you were taught to question things..... so when your parents asked you to take out the garbage or pick up your room.... did you question them?


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## walleyecandy

Anytime I questioned chores when I was a kid living under my parents roof- you get more chores...and you WILL do them. Same goes under my roof- go ahead and complain, whine, *****...plenty to do around here! Haha

I completely see how you are explaining how you understand how the hat incident in court played out- but according to my friend; as soon as he walked into the courtroom the judge instantly was hostile towards him. Yes, it was probably because of the supposed disrespect of the hat- but why not say please remove the hat? My friend was never allowed to state his case. At all. The car was broke down -he was fixing the problem immediately -the cop wrote him an unattended car ticket BUT the cop was wrong because the car was NOT unattended.... But since the judge was having a midol moment and on a power trip- he vented on a kid that was not the problem with society.

To me- that violates my friend's constitutional right to due process. That's my biggest issue.

Everyone does realize that LeDoux is obviously guilty and cannot be trusted because of that atrocious covering of his head right? Mommy issues, short, balding pattern (not pattern baldness) must be some wearing issue (possibly out of alignment), can't get it up....definitely something wrong with him! Haha :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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