# Armadillo hunting



## Stealth

Hey like to tell you about an armadillo hunting experince I had. Not in the right section but there was no armadillo fourum on this site LOL!

My buddy had brung me to his deer lease and me and my brother were just out ridind 4-wheelers and plinking with the .22's. So I decided to go off to see about if there were any rabbits around here. I was carrying my dads Remington bolt-action .22 open sight. It was given to my dad as a gift and we fixed it up because it woundnt hold the magazine right. Anyhow I was walking around and was taking shots at little sparrows seeing what the effects of a LR bullet would have on them (this was my first time to plink, per se, by myself) so I was having a good time. There was a creek on the 440 acres there so I walked along that. Eventually I came to a small section where the road crossed a width of water. I was looking around when I saw this huge rat! or so I thought. I quickly layed down, and wondered why he was just sniffing around after I just shot at a bird a minute ago. Anyhow I realized it was an armadillo. My heart was racing (I like small game better than large game) It obviously hadnt seen or heard me (later I learned that these mammals are pratically deaf and blind) so it wasnt going anywhere, and I had all the time to take the shot. It sniffed and dug its way around this large piece of bridge sunken into the dirt. I checked my clip and made sure it had 9 clean long rifle shells in it.

You may wonder why I was so cautious is because I'd read an article about a guy who'd shot bunches of them with .22's and only a couple instant kills. So he used a .25-20 loaded down with an 87-grain cast bullet, and they simply rolled over.

So I was determined to nail the first one I seen to take in back to Jim(hunting buddy) I racked the bolt. He was still behind the concrete. I actaully stood up getting impatient. But then I saw him! Sniffing again close to the ground as usual. I waited until I was about to bust and then centered the front blade on his very short head. Pow! Rifle went off, mammalian tank jumped up in the air, crashed to the ground and began thrashing about on the dirt. Even rolling into some brush. I panicjed and though I might lose him. But he rolled back out onto the smooth dusty ground and rested for a second. I put another round in the chamber and stilled him at last. Upon retireval I noticed the first round had nail him a little to the right of his head, but a little to the left of the front shoulder. I assume I hit a spot where not alot of organs are.

Next time I will bring along a scope sighted .22 Hornet and challenge the walking tanks again.

SIDE NOTE: (They actaully run pretty fast)


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## Stealth

Hey aussie didnt know if they had armadillos in Oz so here is a picture of what they look like

[/img]


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## Militant_Tiger

two words to that. yee haw


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## Stealth

GET R' DONE!! lol


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## Aussie shooter

Wow what an interesting little creature! You say they're like a rat? How big are they generally? What are their hides like? Pretty thick? Ugly things aren't they! So what is it you can and can't shoot in the US? I assume Armadillos are native, they're not protected? Basically anything that is native in Australia you're not allowed to shoot, except when you have a permit (eg kangaroos). Could you have got in trouble for shooting that? All sounds very different over there!

Cheers


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## Militant_Tiger

well its generally about a foot and half long give or take a half foot, its hide is very thick and they are tough critters. believe it or not they also float. Im not sure of the legality of shooting one of them but it is a wonderful southern hick pastime, just as stealth posted :eyeroll:


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## Aussie shooter

Hahahahaha  I can imagine the type of hick you're talking about! Sounds like fun though. You Northern Americans seem to mock those southern states Americans lots! It's quite funny though, same way we make fun of Tasmanians....


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## Militant_Tiger

either tasmanians or the new zealanders, good correlation


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## Aussie shooter

Or are New Zealanders to us what Canadians are to you guys? And Alabamans (for example) to you guys Tasmanians to us? Either way, isn't it fun mocking those who are different to us! :beer: It's really quite funny! LOL


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## Stealth

Armadillos are pretty much blind and deaf. Down here they are known as "Texas speed bumps" lol!. Yes they are legal to shoot. They root up peoples gardens and crap like that. They are not really that bad of a nuicance but they are fun to shoot. They are tough little buggas but a well placed head shot from any rifle will do them in. My .22 was off a little to the right and it nailed him in the shoulder and exited a very large crack on the other side. Next time I will be using my .22 Hornet

Hey, Aussie remeber how the other day on MSN you said the .22 Hornet would be perfect for the cats down there? Well I've thought it over and sorted trhough all the calibers I could think of and you're right. I mean as werid as it sounds to shoot cats in the states that would be the perfect load. 
45-grain spitzer or hollowpoint traveling at 2,600 fps at any range would make a very fine load.
Sorta like a .22 Hornet is to feral cat as .270 is to Whitetail deer :lol: 
And those are the fair dinkum facts (more slang for you)


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## Aussie shooter

Mate, you hit the nail right on the head. The .223 would be just a little large for a cat, I saw a photo of one head shot by a larger round, and well, there wasn't much left of its head, and it was a large cat. I reckon a .22 Magnum would suffice also but your placement would have to be pretty good. I was trying to figure out why cats aren't a problem in the US, and I think it must be because there are other animals which either out compete or directly kill any cats that try to go feral.
I've never shot a cat before (yet) but I am a firm believer in no such thing as overkill, so the 55gr hollow point .223 pills will be getting a workout!
And you're a true blue Aussie I reckon Stealth, you'd fit in down here easily! How on earth do you learn words like fair dinkim?? LOL. You're a dead set champ. Come and shoot cats with me one day!  
Have a good one

Mark


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## Stealth

Aye mate. Perhaps a .223 would be a bit big for cats but as you said there is no such thing as overkill when you're bangin varmints. Most cats in the U.S. are domestic.

Our varmints would include: squrriels (good for eatin), rabbits (same thing) gophers, prarie dogs, racoons, skunks, and marmots are among the most common. You can pretty much throw in any animal as a varmint up here. We got snakes and things like that, which are fun to shoot.

Boy, do I ever wish I could come down to Oz and burn of a couple hundred rounds with you and your mates down there. How is Aussie culture anyway. I hear the blokes down there are pretty nice to tourists and always ready to have a good time. Well if I ever visit we'll be sure to grab our tucker bag and head down to the nearest ranch and have ourselves a good ol time :beer:


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## Aussie shooter

Mate, you got the lingo perfect. There sounds like lots of fun things to shoot over there, most of our animals are medium size game, like foxes and goats and cats and wild dogs too. The wild dogs are usually cross bred with dingoes, but sometimes have just gone wild themselves. It's pretty scary to see a full grown German Shepherd that you can see is wild, running around on a property. They don't just kill for food, they kill lambs and things in packs, and leave the corpses. It's like they do it for pleasure, but I've never shot one, I'm not sure if I could shoot a dog, owning one myself!

I think you would like Aussie culture, we really enjoy foreigners coming to visit. It's great to have first hand contact with another culture and Americans are great because we are kinda similar in some ways but vastly different in others. I met a lot of Americans from a school tour group a couple of years ago, they were a great bunch and I still keep in touch with one girl. I love comparing culture's similiarities and differences, just all the little things.

Mate, all your Aussie talk is perfect except for "ranch"!  We don't have ranches, we just call them cattle properties, or properties for short. But come over and visit sometimes, I'd love to see what the HMR does to bunnies! You're doing much better than I would with American lingo, although we have many American TV shows!

Have a ripper day anyway


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## Stealth

I thought the ranches were called "stations"?


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## Aussie shooter

Stealth you continue to amaze!

You are absolutely correct. In the Northern Territory and far western Queensland, cattle properties are called stations. These refer to large and very dry dusty areas (generally) where there are "stations" where people are employed more as a business than a family thing.

What we call properties are much closer to the coast and Brisbane (in Queensland) and are generally run by a family. These are the ones we hunt on because (a) its closer to home and (b) families are generally more accomodating than businesses. There is much more vegetation here also.

So do you research our country sometimes? You probably know more about it than me! Good job. 8)


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## Stealth

Arent sheep the main cattle product. Mate, I've been in love with Austrlia since I was a kid. I should have been born an Aussie. I doubt I know as much as yall to about your country though!


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## Stealth

Hey Aussie one question. My freind asked me a couple minutes ago what is a "Bowie". Here in the states it is a very large knife, but he said in Aussie slang in meant something diffrent??


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## Aussie shooter

Yeah here in Australia a bowie knife is a good hunting knife, I'm not aware of any other meanings for it but there could well be. I'm not your genuine country boy, I live about 30km south of Brisbane! I've hooked up a fantastic property for hunting in Kingaroy (215km NW of where I live), they've got rabbits foxes dogs cats and probably pigs but I'm not certain. If you come and visit some time we'll go for a few nights spotlighting! We'll be going in a coupla months (after exams etc.) so I'm really looking forward to it. I'll try to take some photos. Have a good one champ


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## Aussie shooter

Also Stealth, I'd like to hear some more facts about my country I might not know?? Thanks!


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## Stealth

LOL!


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## dlip

phew! so im not the only one who shoots wild cats, its been my secret for a long time, they all get out there and tear up my barn, so i have killed probably 50 of them, lets keep it on the dl, they are all wild though, and they are diseased, anyhow, i use a henry 22 lever action, or, my trusty 870 express supermagnum with 8's and a full choke, most i ever killed on one ambush was 9, i was using my 22


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## Militant_Tiger

if you want to keep it on the DL perhaps a forum on the internet isint the best place to get it off your chest


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## TANATA

Militant_Tiger said:


> if you want to keep it on the DL perhaps a forum on the internet isint the best place to get it off your chest


True that :lol:


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## Leo Porcello

> were just out ridind 4-wheelers and plinking with the .22's.


*SCARY!!*



> I was walking around and was taking shots at little sparrows seeing what the effects of a LR bullet would have on them


I am sure that is legal! :eyeroll: uke:

Just the kind of thing the Antis, PETA and Friends of Animals use for Ammo!


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## Stealth

Ummm, perhaps you misunderstood me or I just not word my statements right. We were riding 4-wheelers and plinking SEPRATELY. LOL! that would look funny though a ******* riding around then braking on a ATV then taking a shot at a bird.
Anyhow, We rode on the 4-wheelers then I went off to plink alone without a vehicle. 
And so what if I am testing the effects of a LR bullet on house sparrows, they are the most disgusting little animals ever. They raid eaves of homes, and crap all over the place, nasty little birds. Fun target practice though, and gave me some good field experince with the .22 LR catridge. Well to the PETA members,.......never mind!

Man, just cant wait till I get a new Savage chambered for the .17 HMR. I was thinking of getting that new BSA Sweet 17 3-12X40 for scope for it. It is actaully supposed to really work. You have to calibrate it first I think, but after it is supposed to be accurate and consistent.

Good Hunting guys! :sniper:


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## Stealth

Hey Dlip,

How are you liking your Henry lever action. I got one a while back, but have tended to use my dads bolt-action .22 more because of the terrible iron sights on the Henry. The scope is so tacky and non-traditional that I took mine off today. I was trying to contruct my own front side from bent needles (I like very thin front blades) and then was going to dremmel tool the rear sight into a U type sight cause it has a square notch I am going to shave a little metal and make it into a U notch. Ahh, I heard they are remanufacturing metal iron sights on the Henry's but I'm not going to rush to go change out mine. I wonder if they offer a peep sight for the Henry lever??

Anyhow good hunting, sounds like you did some pretty good cat blastin with that slick lever action, they have a pretty decent trigger on them too!


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## dlip

do you mean you took the scope off of the henry? i did too, i had a little 22. special scope from bsa it was a 4x32 and it had a good reticle, i just didnt like it for what i was using it for you know, i wanted a gun to plink with, not to punch paper, and i wanted one that i could shoot quick at skunks, opossums, and armadillos, i have always had a think for iron sights
[/quote]How are you liking your Henry lever action. I got one a while back, but have tended to use my dads bolt-action .22 more because of the terrible iron sights on the Henry


> you dont like the sights? whats wrong with them, i have always thought of them to be pretty good, easy to line up and the rifle is pretty accurate, tell me whats wrong with them and ill see what i can do to help you out
> :sniper:


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## dlip

sorry, i messed up on my last post, the quote was not supposed to cover what i said, anyway, you should be able to figure it out :sniper:


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## Militant_Tiger

"Just the kind of thing the Antis, PETA and Friends of Animals use for Ammo!"

i shed the same feelings on this with my post "two words to that. yee haw"
we just have to try to educate them on the finer points and be done with it. it sickens me that he assumed that you were angry that you thought that he was shooting off his 4x4, not killing random birds without reason. if you have enough land to ride atv's im quite sure sparrows aren't your biggest problem.


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## Aussie shooter

I don't understand why shooting feral cats is such a huge no-no in the US? Anyone here in Australia, animal rights or hunters, will applaud the destruction of feral cats because they are such a devastation on the ecology. They need to be killed or our native bilbies, wallabies and possums are all in danger of extinction. Are they not such a huge environmental problem over there? I mean everyone always jokes about shooting neighbourhood cats here, but of course nobody does it. There is a huge anti-cat sentiment in Australia, simply because even domestic cats are responsible for millions of native bird and lizard deaths every year.

As an environmentalist, studying it and living it, I believe I am a favour to the Australian environment as a hunter. There are so many animals in Australia which are a problem, and need to be destroyed. I would never shoot an animal which had a right to be there, which is intrinsic to local ecosystems, its against my hunting ethics. I believe in balancing up local ecosystems back to their original states, and I don't see how that is unethical in any way. I'll get off my soap box now...


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## Stealth

> if you have enough land to ride atv's im quite sure sparrows aren't your biggest problem.


I dont care if sparrows werent the biggest problem! On the acres I was hunting the only animal that really were even close to a problem were hogs rooting up their own territory! Remeber humans are animals problems and accecpt it or not we intruded on them.

As to the sparrow issue, who cares if I went around nailing the little buggas. I dont see it as unethical or anything like, deer arent the only thing people hunt mate and small game, in my opinon, are just a equal sitting in my crosshairs as a giant 12 point Mulie buck.

Yea, you could say I am shotting the little birds without reason, and so what it is fun to shoot some birds on a nice beughtiful day with mountains surronding you and the sound of a clean creek flowing in your ear. This is my form of hunting!


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## Stealth

Dlip,

I just dont like the iron sights on it, to me the front sight is too fat and square. I have trouble getting my target aquired in the facotory sights. I cant disinguish the sights against the enviorment as easily as I can with my dad's bolt-action. I was thinking of metal a thin wire into the plastic front blade as a more distinct front blade but I am not sure of the durability of that. Also the sqaure notch on the rear sight is terrible. I think Henry should make it a U notch, or even a V notch.

LOL! I actaully have the same BSA scope your reffering too, mine looked tacky on the gun. I, like you, dont plan on using my lever for target. Just casual plinking and rabbit hunting. If I can improve the sights a bit I'll use it for squirrel sniping. I just love the short carbine feel of the Henry lever action. Nice and light, with a good balance. Plenty of ammo capacity and a tradtional look!

(my spelling is terrible sorry)


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## Aussie shooter

Everyone's got different views on what is ethical to hunt. In my opinion, here is the checklist to see if it's OK

1. Is it legal?
2. Will me shooting this animal negatively affect the ecosystem in which it participates?
3. Is my calibre big enough to put the animal down ethically?
4. How does the property owner feel about me shooting this animal?

I put a post up about shooting kangaroos once. Many Americans, even shooters, strongly object to shooting kangaroos on moral grounds. Where do they base this? On the media portraits of kangaroos. In reality, they can be a huge problem here and often need culling. Would I base my judgements on whether to shoot one or not on the consciences of my American friends? Not a chance.

As I said in my last post, I would never shoot something that wasn't a problem in its ecosystem. Simply put, it is against my ethics. The main reason I hunt is to do my bit to balance up damaged ecosystems. It comes from being an environmentalist. I love hunting, but I hate the thought of negatively impacting nature. This is why, when I fish, I throw everything back. I just can't bring myself to keep it.

In Australia, the law states that you CANNOT shoot a native animal, unless you have a permit to shoot it. Generally these permits are only issued in special circumstances for ducks and kangaroos. This law includes all birds, including crows. Introduced animals? Please, shoot as many as you can.

Of course there is no difference between shooting a sparrow and a deer. They're both living creatures, both are having their lives taken away. The key is, as I understand it, that you have to pay money for a permit to shoot a deer. Just remember the check list when shooting sparrows, and you'll be sweet.

Cheers

Mark


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## sdeprie

Some "ethics" got a little foggy, sometimes. I shoot mocking-birds (sp?). On the surface this seems terribly useless and questionable. However, mocking-birds are extremely territorial. A pair of them moved into a bush in our yard. That means that the birdfood we put out for doves, finches, cardinals............ goes to waste, because the mocking-birds chase them all away. They are surprisingly viscious, even chase cats away. So, I tried to discourage them for months, finally got tired of tearing out the nest and started shooting. Feral cats are not as big a problem in the US in rural areas for one very good reason. A coyote's favorite food is cat. Feral, or "stray" cats are much more common in urban areas and are a terrible nuisance. I have an indoor cat, but there are several neighborhood cats that are on the "endangered list."


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## Stealth

Sorry this is just a test, pictures is not working in another forum

RWS 94 .22 caliber 4 grackles shot in 15 minutes


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## Militant_Tiger

"even close to a problem were hogs rooting up their own territory"

then you have no right to take pot shots at any animal. if im not going to eat something i wont shoot it unless its causing a problem. that you feel no remorse over killing birds minding their own buisness is disgusting.


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## dlip

> I just love the short carbine feel of the Henry lever action. Nice and light, with a good balance. Plenty of ammo capacity and a tradtional look!


as do i, it goes easy to the shoulder, very smooth, i love it, i cant get enough of it, i think i might buy another one one of these days, maybe a 22 magnum or a .17 hmr

hey man, what the hell is up with you, everytime ive read one of your posts, its been negative towards someone else, if they are bugging him, and he wants to shoot him, thats his business



> then you have no right to take pot shots at any animal. if im not going to eat something i wont shoot it unless its causing a problem. that you feel no remorse over killing birds minding their own buisness is disgusting.


you have no right to tell a man his business, you need to back off and chill out man, i hate those sparrows too, i dont shoot em much, because i never have safe shots at them, and what difference does it make if he pot shoots them, its the same thing if he kills them flying!



> Feral cats are not as big a problem in the US in rural areas for one very good reason. A coyote's favorite food is cat.


i beg to differ my friend, in my neck of the woods, i only see cats in peoples houses, the only place i see them wild is where my land is, they have been wild for many generations, they are a worse problem than raccoons, squirrels, and crows combined, they tear up the tomato garden, they eat the dog food, they tear up the barns, i have never seen anything like it anywhere else, i was shocked to see them act that way, i was shocked to see somany of them that were wild, its crazy out there, i didnt wipe out the whole population of them, but i keep it controlled to where they can catch all the rats, but i keep an eye on them, and ive gotten them scared enough where they never come around my place except at 7:30 each morning for a bite of dog food, its weird how they are so much like many deer, they follow the same routines everyday, any way, i just thought i would share that with you, and o yes, they are not illegal here


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## Militant_Tiger

so if i felt like shooting your dog that would be OK huh? because no one can tell me what to do. who even cares, i mean its only a dog. they crap everywhere and bark.

just because you both share a viewpoint, that sparrows are the scum of the earth doesnt mean that the rest of us dont have SOME respect for the wildlife. i still advocate hunting in all respects but shooting something just because its there is not justified.


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## Bobm

MT Said


> just because you both share a viewpoint, that sparrows are the scum of the earth doesnt mean that the rest of us dont have SOME respect for the wildlife. i still advocate hunting in all respects but shooting something just because its there is not justified


well put and I agree with you 100%, using animals for targets like they are tin cans is pathetic, a sparrow is beautiful to me, I'm certainly no Bible thumper but isn't there some line in it about Gods seeing every sparrow fall? I hope thats true.....


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## dlip

hey man, i understand what you are saying, the only thing i was getting at is how he was jumping all over him for what stealth said, in my own opinion, it didnt have to become that big of a deal, and i do have respect for wild life, i hardly ever shoot sparrows, but as long as its legal, i say we stay out of that persons business, and have some respect for their choices, even though we may not agree with them, anyway, i want to settle everything right here, and right now, because i dont want anyone to have any hard feelings, so if i ****** anyone off, please accept this appology


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## sdeprie

dlip, I didn't mean there were NO feral cats, but there are not as many in some places as others. The number of them in your area MAY mean you don't have as many coyotes. But you are right. They can wipe out populations of squirrel, rabbits.... and sparrows. So what we should do is trap them and send them to where somebody thinks sparrows are the scum of the earth and let them loose. Then I'll set up an interesting target range and he can shoot all kinds of stuff and let the cats take care of the sparows. Then will everybody be happy? I doubt it. We each have different opinions and if we can respect other's opinions, it's cool. If we can't, remember, you have to give respect before you can earn it.


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## Bobm

All life is precious, I have no problem culling animals that are doing harm but I've been hunting with people that get a little bored when things slow down and just look for something to shoot at. If that something is some innocent animal its wrong! There are a lot of things that are technically legal to do that are not ethical to do. Sportsman are supposed to follow rules of fair chase, and consume the game they take not just randomly use live animals for target practice. When I was young my father caught me with a dead bird that I killed for the heck of it and he asked me the following question" can you make one". I'm not trying to ridicule you, just get you to give this some more thought.....all animals are beautiful and want to live, killing something should never be taken lightly. IF I ever kill something and don't feel a tinge of regret for taking its life I will quit hunting....


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## sdeprie

And that would include prairie dogs? I don't want to start a fight with this, but one person's innocent life is another's pest. I personally don't go around sholting sparrows, or other "targets of opportunity." (Although I have been tempted when bored or disgusted with my lack of success, I have not given in to that in MANY years.) But we must be slow to judge other people's actions based on our experience and situation. Just a thought. Now, I would be terribly offended if someone caught them and pulled off their wings, etc. But many farmers try to reduce crow and blackbird populations because they are pests. If they don't eat them, does that count?


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## Militant_Tiger

apparently you missed the entire point there. if its causing a problem, such as a blackbird to a farmer then it is ethical to kill it. if you are shooting sparrows for no reason other than to shoot that IS wrong, end of story.


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## Aussie shooter

OK Militant Tiger

I don't want this to sound aggressive but enough is enough. PLEASE respect the opinions of others. Not everyone needs to think the same way you do. Every forum topic you enter into you end up being aggressive, rude and disrespectful. For the sake of this great forum, I ask you to just take it easy a little. You need to adopt a little more humility, if you don't agree with something or have some advice to offer, for goodness sake think twice about the way you present it. As you can see, I'm not the only one fed up with your attitude. I have read your other posts in different forums, and they all end up the same. Please take heed to this, it's for all of our sake.

Thank you

Mark from Australia


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## sdeprie

Aussie shooter, thanks. I guess I was being too subtle. That's all I meant.


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## Stealth

In this post I hope to bring this opposition to a conclusion. Diffrent people have diffrent view on ethical hunting. Sparrows in MY (not yours) book are pests so I really never thought twice about shooting them on the lease. They didnt really cause a problem on the lease as they do at my house, so I should have probably thunk it through first. I offer my apology for any offence I might have commited. However, I will NOT be walked over and be told that my morals and ethics are incorrect just because I shot 4 sparrows.

To bring in another view. Is it ethical to shoot ground squirrels and prairie dogs cause they are there. Sure, it is becuse alot of the times it is those pests that are causing great finacial damage to farmers and rancher. But let me ask you this. Isnt it fun when your out there in a shoot? Most of you will say yes because otherwise you woudnt be out there shooting. Well for the sparrows applied like that. So I hope that the discussion of ethical hunting can be silently ended

Oh yea, 


> so if i felt like shooting your dog that would be OK huh? because no one can tell me what to do. who even cares, i mean its only a dog. they crap everywhere and bark.


Tiger, a dog is the same but it is diffrent. Sure you could shoot it but then I'd be mad because my good pal is now dead and I would care if you shot my dog. However I think your comparison is a little extreme. A dog and a bird are two totally diffrent animals. A dog is domestic, a sparrow is wild. The dog belongs to someone, the sparrow really doesnt (except to God). Sure they crap and bark and things like that but I dont care if he does cause I was prepared for the resposibity of owning a dog. Hitting on Mark's point you seem to go into posts and point out negative things about the person or the post, often times degrading that person in the forum and possibly emabarrising that person. Cant we just have a disussion wihtout all the negative stuff. Sure, people disagrre doesnt mean you have to bash their view though.
Enough said

Good hunting guys


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## Maverick

One thing BOBM wasn't taking into consideration is Culture! He is comparing American culture to Aussie culture!! 2 different countries with 2 different laws, and regulations. What's legal there may not be legal here, or viseversa. I am not saying killing innocent animals is right but when you drive down the roads and see 5 dead skunks or *****, people have shot that innocent animal to conserve the life of other animals(ducks,geese,pheasants). Same with stray farm cats. They are eating the young birds or even the adults when the are molting!
I am also positive the population of sparrows will be in check for a long time, and how do we stop those little old ladies that have sparrow traps in there back yards ( what about their morals?). They do more damage than someone with a 22.
Sparrows will be around for a long time! 
If someone takes out a couple in a day, then nature will balance it's way out some how.

Shoot the cats!
Mav...


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## Militant_Tiger

"often times degrading that person in the forum and possibly emabarrising that person"

perhaps because i cant find any other way to burrow SOME sort of ethics into you people. if you feel no remorse for killing something without reason i feel terrible for you, and i tried to do something about it.

I now find that those of you who feel that it is ethical and just to shoot an animal for no reason other than it being there are hardset in your views, and will not be swayed. you've won the fight, just make sure it was the good fight before you rejoice.

Tiger


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## Maverick

Who is rejoicing here?

And who are you to be burrowing ethics?
Now you sound like a priest or something!


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## Aussie shooter

Tiger, it appears, whether deliberately or unintentionally, you've missed the point entirely.

We are no longer talking about sparrows and the ethics attached to them. 
What we're trying to fix is the manner in which you treat people on this forum. Would you like me to start a new forum topic on your behaviour? I don't think so. So let's get it all clear now.

I was reading through many, many more forums and topics within forums last night in which you'd taken a part or initiated. 9 out of 10 ended with you insulting someone or shooting them down in a very abrasive manner. Those whom you reacted that way to responded humbly, apologising for anything that said to insult you (a good example is sdrepie, he's a good bloke). What they didn't realise is that this is your standard way of treating people.

This is why you cannot use "burrowing ethics into people" as an excuse for treating them so degradingly. My example is the post you put up about 22 stingers. Experienced shooters lent experienced advice, and you just explode with rudeness. This forum had nothing to do with ethics.

Explain to me why that is? I am asking you, on behalf of many of my friends in this forum, to PLEASE fix your attitude and start treating other shooters with respect. You are NOT always right, opinions will ALWAYS differ.

We want to be your friends here, Tiger, but it's hard when one end of the friendship is so rude. I just want to finish by asking you a little about yourself. How old are you? Family? What do you do for a living? It's never too late to change, mate, we just want a more friendly forum. Please respond to this. I'm not attacking you, just trying to help you change for the good of every user here. I challenge other readers to back me up on this.

Thank you


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## Militant_Tiger

As for my rudeness on the stinger problem, it has been posted in the appropriate thread.

third order of buisness. I have not wrote in more than 4 or 5 forums ever, so im not sure where 10 comes from. if you are calling each individual header such as "bass fishing" here a forum well then i suppose so, however im quite sure you overlooked any of my many posts where bob and I agreed, or perhaps the one where plainsman and I finally saw each others points in a new light.

I will not agree with someone who plainly states that they shot and killed animals out of sheer boredom, or just to shoot. If the animal was causing a problem, find with me, shoot it. If you are going to eat it or mount it, go ahead shoot away. If you are going to take a life because you felt like it i have problems with it, and im sure quite a few people do. I am not going to be there to say something the next time you go to shoot a sparrow, the only thing that i've tried to accomplish here is that the next time you go to shoot something without cause that you will ask yourself if you could justify shooting it to your father. if not perhaps you should reconsider.

if you want to shoot something here is a link to some good unconventional targets.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... ht=targets

Tiger


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## Aussie shooter

Thanks for your response Tiger,

I was talking about each individual header, and yes, I did see when you occasionally agreed with someone. This accounts for the 1 extra when I mentioned you were rude in 9 out of 10.

Let me ask you, and please respond to this: for all our sake, will you endeavour to be more courteous? Please? I would like a response on that. Just promise us that. As I say, this is all other issues aside, although you still chose to bring the sparrow shooting argument back into it.

Also, please answer this one, for my own interest. How old are you? Just out of interest. I am not trying to take a stab here, it will help me talk to you appropriately if I get an age. It's hard to tell when you haven't met the person. For your interests sake, I will be 20 in a week's time.

Let me once and for all try to clarify where we all stand on this argument:

Personally, I believe that shooting sparrows is not right. It is against my personal ethics and I wouldn't do it myself. But my ethics are different than other people. I certainly disagree with hunting sparrows Tiger, you and I are together on that! But look how I approached it: I didn't try to tell anyone they were "wrong" or a "moron" because they didn't think the same way as me. I merely presented a list of my personal hunting ethics and my reasons.

What do you hunt, Tiger? Are you the same as me, in only hunting feral animals? The US has precious few feral animals, most animals you guys hunt are native and endemic! No-one tells you what you can and can't hunt. Let's broaden the focus. Many animal rights groups tell us we shouldn't hunt at all. Are they right? In their minds, yes. To us, no. Can anyone definitely tell either of us who's right? Of course not! OPINION, not FACT. Same case.

You are preaching to barren ground here Tiger. Stealth will not shift his position. You're certainly not changing yours. How about we let it go, and move on. Let the EPA make the laws about the environment, and leave the rest up to Stealth whether he follows them or not. I don't even know if shooting sparrows is illegal in the US, it's certainly illegal here. If Stealth gets caught? His problem, not yours.

I do admire your concern for the environment, however Tiger. I am in 2nd year Bachelor of Environmental Science course and I am very much a conservationist. This is where I get my hunting ethos. Yes I hunt, but only to even up wrecked ecosystems. I would never ever shoot a native animal, I just couldn't. Not even if I'd got nothing all week. I don't kill just for fun, I kill because it needs to be done. Of course I enjoy the thrill of a hunt but the main part is I feel like I'm making a difference, if I killed a native animal I'd be making a difference all right, but a negative one.

Tiger, please answer the questions I stated above. And after that, let's let bygones be bygones, move on and treat each other in the same way we like to be treated.

Thank you, and good afternoon, mate.

Mark from Australia


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## dlip

> As for my rudeness on the stinger problem, it has been posted in the appropriate thread.


what do you mean


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## dlip

> I will not agree with someone who plainly states that they shot and killed animals out of sheer boredom, or just to shoot. If the animal was causing a problem, find with me, shoot it. If you are going to eat it or mount it, go ahead shoot away. If you are going to take a life because you felt like it i have problems with it, and im sure quite a few people do.


its good thatyou are concerned for the enviroment, and you have your opinions, but you ARE NOT at liberty to tell someone what to do, you have your ethics and morals, and i do too, but im sure they are not the same, if you dont agree with them, fine, thats your opinion, but if you cannot figure out a way to say preesent it in a nice and not degrading way, then keep it to yourself



> "often times degrading that person in the forum and possibly emabarrising that person"
> 
> perhaps because i cant find any other way to burrow SOME sort of ethics into you people. if you feel no remorse for killing something without reason i feel terrible for you, and i tried to do something about it.
> 
> I now find that those of you who feel that it is ethical and just to shoot an animal for no reason other than it being there are hardset in your views, and will not be swayed. you've won the fight, just make sure it was the good fight before you rejoice.


like i already said, you have different ethical values than other people, so you are not at liberty to "burrow" more into them, again like i already said, if you cant find a nicer way to do something about it, which you shouldnt be anyway, then shut up

and respond to aussie shooters questions

dlip


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## Maverick

I got admit those Aussies are some good people!I've worked with quit a few...as a ski instructor in CO!!

Good points...we don't needed other peolpe morals pushed on us. We as individuals, have our own morals. They have been shaped since we were born. Our parents were creating them for us. If you do choose to show your own morals, Don't PUSH them on people! Explain them in a rational way people might see them!

1 Nation- 1 World
Mav...


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## Militant_Tiger

"but you ARE NOT at liberty to tell someone what to do"

Actually, I have every right to push morals on you, simply because you have no requirement to follow them. As I said i will not be there in the field to stop you as you test the effects of your .22 on random songbirds, but after giving a good explination as to why you should not, and having several people say the same, yet people were unwaivered in their opinions, and refused to accept that the point was even valid I turned to a harsher method. I agree that it was not the best technique but I think we have settled for the most part that my point had reason to it, even if the delivery did not. If you choose not to follow through on what I said, and I expect you wont thats fine but at the least give the idea thought.

As for you aussie i am pleased that you used reason in your questioning of my methods unlike the others. Unfortunately here in the US we have quite a large poaching problem, I see the taking of any creature without some cause in quite a poor light, akin to poaching. It is for this reason that i'm quite touchy on the subject, but as i've said it was a bad way to go about it.

Tiger


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## 223shooter

"however im quite sure you overlooked any of my many posts where bob and I agreed, or perhaps the one where plainsman and I finally saw each others points in a new light."

we are not getting upset as much about what you say as how you say it. if you look though the forums i think you will find you have been tring to force your opion on us. where others will shed there knowledge in other means.

"I see the taking of any creature without some cause in quite a poor light,"

cause- testing out ammo- good enough for me
i hunt crows and they do not bother my land or other animals they accutally help clean it up. 
i have shot songbirds 
i have shot cats
i have shot snakes
i have shot creatures you may not have yet to tell me this is wrong is just making an *** of yourself! i personally could give a $h*t less if you think of me as a piss pore hunter that goes around killing things. because i had reasons i killed all those animals and everyone was taken legall!!!! weither my reason was i am bored or just because i have a negitive feeling about the animal it is none of your business!!!!

"so if i felt like shooting your dog that would be OK huh? because no one can tell me what to do. who even cares, i mean its only a dog. they crap everywhere and bark"

i have had a dog shot and killed before, it was chasing deer during deer season i was not happy about this yet i thanked the hunter because i would have done the same thing!! yet i can tell you if my dog is running around in my yard and you shoot it you just better kiss your *** good-bye.

also a wild dog is free game to me as long as it is legal

PEOPLE LIKE YOU Militant_Tiger ARE BRINGING THIS SITE DOWN AND SHOULD BE KICKED OFF!!!!!!!!

and i don't know if i am supposed to say that on hear yet i am tired of reading you post putting others down for the way they hunt !!!!


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## Militant_Tiger

I'm not sure which state shooting songbirds is legal in, or for that matter how a domesticated dog is considered wild once it has left the yard. I'm trying to make amends with people such as aussie who want to discuss things logically, however im not sure how I should go about it with you, being that you've now called me just about every name in the book, as well as admited to killing several animals illegally. If you tire of reading my posts please skip them.

Tiger


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## 223shooter

please inlighten me on which animals were illegally killed that i stated?? because as i read though my post i can not find one.

"domesticated dog is considered wild once it has left the yard"

i also can't see where you are getting this conclusion? my post read

"have had a dog shot and killed before, it was chasing deer during deer season i was not happy about this yet i thanked the hunter because i would have done the same thing!! yet i can tell you if my dog is running around in my yard and you shoot it you just better kiss your a$$ good-bye."

i don't know about where you live yet where i live if a dog chases and kills deer it is about as good as a coyote! i have seen and heard of many people haveing to kill there dogs because they run down deer. then i went on to state that the way your post read you were just going to run up and shoot someone's dog outa there yard! so i told you what would happen if you did this.

"I'm trying to make amends with people such as aussie who want to discuss things logically, however im not sure how I should go about it with you, being that you've now called me just about every name in the book,"

my post comes across as me being ****** at you because i was! i can't find where i called you any name in the book. i do however see where i said you are making a total *** outa yourself by posting some of the things you do. the whole thing at the end in red is because this site will kick people out that it feels need to be and if you continue to post the way you are i believe you will be kicked off. as i read though this post i find that most of it has to do with people fighting with you and not talking about the question asked there for it is bringing the site down.

also in another forum you told everyone they could use stingers in a rifle that says in the owners mannual not to! this is very dangerous! if you want to put yourself in harms way go ahead yet don't put that kind of stuff out there where someone without enough sence will try it and could have the gun blow up!

i think you will see that i am comeing across to you in a harsh way this is because i am! also most of your post are writen in a harsh way so here's a little back at you.

all information about your experinces are great and i believe you could add lots of good info to this site yet when you write most of your post like this 
"perhaps because i cant find any other way to burrow SOME sort of ethics into you people. if you feel no remorse for killing something without reason i feel terrible for you, and i tried to do something about it.

I now find that those of you who feel that it is ethical and just to shoot an animal for no reason other than it being there are hardset in your views, and will not be swayed. you've won the fight, just make sure it was the good fight before you rejoice."
or this
"apparently you missed the entire point there. if its causing a problem, such as a blackbird to a farmer then it is ethical to kill it. if you are shooting sparrows for no reason other than to shoot that IS wrong, end of story."

people can get the wrong impressions! i for one have. yet i am not going to hold a grudge i just ask when and if you post please try to come across people in a better way because there is so much you can add yet people don't want to hear all the put downs

thank you and i hope this is over and i hope you will not continue to be angry with me i am sorry if these post came across to you in the wrong way yet i think you needed a wake up call thats all.


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## Militant_Tiger

223 i think this is a whole bunch of misunderstandings

"also in another forum you told everyone they could use stingers in a rifle that says in the owners mannual not to! this is very dangerous! "

if im not mistaken i said you can use it in sporter chambers, i may have posted otherwise earlier, but i believe i corrected myself. i tried to get the lot of guys from rimfirecentral to come over here and they said they didnt want to because everyone gave me crap about something that is true, that you can fire stingers out of a standard chamber. i posted more on this in the stinger thread (thank you for being more civil).

in reference to illegal shooting, songbirds are protected in most states that I can think of. if it is not in yours im sorry, i made an assumption.

for the dog running down deer, i didnt realize that they were fast enough to take one down, i assumed someone just shot your dog who was running around by deer during deer season.

I agree my methods were incorrect, I got frustrated. Any anger on this end is gone, I'm glad that we can now see each others points.

Tiger :beer:


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## dlip

why dont you answer what aussie wanted to know, how old are you? family? what do you do for a living? like i said in 22 stingers, you are one pissy, snotty guy, and you are baffled at my inability to comprehend, o, i understand the words you use, but i dont understand your stupidity, you are one lousy guy to tell me you have the right to tell me what my morals should be, people really dont care what you consider unethical, because they might have a different opinion about it, you need to shut up if you cant find a way to talk to people nicer, we are trying to give you advice, and you act like we are the ones being a$$ holes, you need to really start thinking about what you say, because you are really starting to piss people off


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## 223shooter

deer are faster then the average dog yet deer can't run that far so when they begin to slow the dog catches up and then nothing good comes from that


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## sdeprie

Tiger, ther is certainly a misunderstanding. You have misunderstood the whole point of what a number of writers have tried to point out. Yes, you have the RIGHT, which is not necessarily the same as the RESPONSIBILITY, to say whatever you want to say and in any way you want to say it. The point isn't WHAT you are saying. There are many writers here who agree with you and are opposed to the willful slaughter of innocent life without any reason. However, you have chosen to attack instead of discuss, which is the purpose of a forum, people who have the audacity to disagree with you. YOU ARE RIGHT, NO DISCUSSION. That I can't abide with and from here on out any discussion you take part in will not be followed any longer. I have the right to ignore you. Good bye. If anyone else wants me to hear any discussion you will have to reach me on a different forum topic.


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## Aussie shooter

Militant_Tiger said:


> in reference to illegal shooting, songbirds are protected in most states that I can think of. if it is not in yours im sorry, i made an assumption.
> 
> for the dog running down deer, i didnt realize that they were fast enough to take one down, i assumed someone just shot your dog who was running around by deer during deer season.
> 
> I agree my methods were incorrect, I got frustrated. Any anger on this end is gone, I'm glad that we can now see each others points.
> 
> Tiger :beer:


Tiger, good on you.

You ARE in fact capable of being humble and apologetic. I'm quite pleased with this outcome.

No-one wants to attack you here, we were all just really put off by some of your aggression. We all do want to be your friend, the differences in opinion on this hunting birds topic is beside the point. What we're working on is your treatment of others in this forum. Do you acknowledge that you were rather unnecessarily rude to certain people on more than one occasion in this forum, based on differences in opinion? For goodness sake, PLEASE don't justify to me why you shot stingers out of your 22! Or why you don't shoot song birds! We've heard it, we understand YOUR opinion, and you know what? We respect it. JUST talk about your attitudes. That's all.

Just so we all know you a little better, will you answer my questions from earlier? What is your first name? Do you have a family? What do you do for a living? How old are you?

I will tell you that my name is Mark, I live in Brisbane, Australia (half way up the eastern coast) with my mother and two younger brothers, I study environmental science (2nd year) at university and I'm 19 years old.

Come on mate, it's time to make peace. You're in good stead mow to "bury the hatchet" (as you Americans would say  ) right now. I suggest you go for it.

dlip, maverick, sdrepie, 223 shooter, Stealth and Bobm, thanks for the back up fellas. I think we're FINALLY getting somewhere.

Have a ripper day everyone, let's hear back from you soon Tiger.

Mark


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## Militant_Tiger

Well aussie, I'm 16 years old, I attend school, and I like to fish. I can't thank you enough for being civil during the arguements, as well as now. I think that we've rooted out the bad eggs whose final goal was not an agreement.


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## Aussie shooter

Good on ya mate

Now we are where we want to be. Hopefully there won't be any more conflicts. It's good to see you've learnt a few lessons (I hope) and maybe we'll all enjoy this forum a lot more. Don't get me wrong, however, it's not a case of rooting out the bad eggs, as the conflict was never unprovoked on your behalf. But let's just move on and leave everything in the past. Thanks for answering my questions, and thanks for being willing to smooth the waters. I think we'll notice a marked change in attitude from the other guys now you're willing to be less aggressive. Here's to a a more agreeable forum! :beer:

You're a good bloke after all Tiger!

Have a good one

Mark from Australia

P.S. Did you know Stealth is also 16? You guys could be mates! And you both know a good sight more than I do about rifles, thats for sure! Thanks for all the advice fellas.


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## Stealth

Hey Tiger,

Thanks for burying that hatchet as Mark said. I am sure that we all understand that diffrent people have diffrent ethics and so on.

So where do you live

My name is Derek I live near Dallas, Texas im 16 and I love to hunt alot. It is pretty much my life. Nice to meet your aquantance.

So what about the rest of you blokes, cmon spill yalls beans


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