# More disease



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/0 ... erculosis/

Time to forget political correct and start facing reality


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

It'll be OK Bruce, when everyone gets that magic TB immunization your last post on this subject talked about. I asked a couple of ID colleagues about it AND the CDC directly and apparently it doesn't exist. No surprise there. No one seems to know the guy that supposedly was quoted and represented the CDC. They all seemed to think it was bogus as none of that stuff exists.
However, THIS article probably has at least some merit and genuine concers with it, though still no reason to panic! We have far more pressing and Less easy to treat problems, although, if some of our presidential wannabes from recent past would get current on Medicine 2016 and get on the immunization bandwagon there'd be a heck of a lot LESS for you to fuss over! LOL. How many kids will they kill or already arguably killed with their stupidity broadcasts during debates on National TV? Back to your concerns.....

Yes, undoubtedly when people from 3rd world countries come to 1st world countries they bring a lot of unwelcome baggage with them. Ask the Mandans and other Earlier than 1492 Americans what those dastardly Europeans brought with them! Ask the few survivors, anyway! Interestingly there is ONE disease we think originated amount the native Americana and was then brought back to Europe! SYPHILLUS! Yep, the Natines got a bit of a revenge, anyway. 
I have no magic answers to this impending medical problem, but if you remember when the war drums were being beaten back in the early 2000's by people who should have known better, I predicted that we would never win, the Mideast would turn into another Vietnam, and willingly or not we would definitely ultimately get all kinds of refugees, political asylum, etc.with huge lists of expensive problems, yet everyone on the FBO website at the time universally ripped on the Hmong, and called me a Liberal for even suggesting we'd get hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of expensive Arab refugees for our meddling! Either take em in or have everyone who doesn't already hate us in the world join the hating us crowd! The Hmong ( the Hill People) supported us until the bitter end in Vietnam and saved many American lives while giving their own. After Vietnam fell close to about one MILLION Hmong were mass slaughtered for helping us! 
So how do we treat the predicted result of our meddling in the Mideast, abandon them or bring them in like the Hmong!?! I don't know - no answers from me, but if you worry about disease, first kick out the politicians, then leave it up to the experts to deal with it and to the taxpayers to pay for it! Anyone who was FOR taking on Iraq, IMHO has no business complaining. I realize that a lot of guys don't feel that way and I'll,agree to disagree with anyone...just don't rant on with your usual Liberal nonsense Bruce! There's plenty of blame for everyone to share! It's a huge mess and I suspect we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg so far.
Sometimes you have To call a spade a friggin shovel, like it or not........and risk being called an unpatriotic Liberal! But it's time we kept our nose out of the works little ongoing wars! One of the few things I do agree with the Donald, cept I worry he'd toss nukes around at the drop of a hat with his temperment.
I'm going to put my old brain on standby and go nuke some Liberal p dogs tomorrow with some new loads for a truckload of my rifles. If you lived here I'd be glad to take you along. Maybe sometime if you get over here.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I get a kick out of how the human mind often rationalizes without us even being aware of it. For example you always hear how we brought Hmong over because they were loyal and fought for us. No they didn't we fought for them. We hear the Kurds fight for us. No they don't we fight for them. We don't owe any of these people anything. Half the world will perhaps want a short war with us so we will rebuild their country and take some over here. Kick the snot out of them and leave.

I know the diseases will be eventually brought under control. How many Americans need to suffer and how many need to die before that happens. What right to central American countries have to the benefits of America when they have done zero for it? No one asked me if I wanted these parasites. Did they ask you? Fence my a$$ a mile of Claymors would be much better.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

You are right again Bruce! LOL. I concede you are always right - we part time Dratted liberals/conservative Liberals independent thinkers are always wrong! I understand! 
But in any case, who fought for who, we were ALLIES with the HMONG. My point is simply that if we supposedly fight FOR or WITH a particular group, then lose...oops...abandon....leave....that war, do we pull out and leave our previous "allies" to get slaughtered? I realize hindsight is always 20-20, but IMO the take home wisdom of all these fights that havre been ongoing for centuries around the world is to stay home. We can't change the world or export democracy or Christianity......wish that wasn't true, but our well intentioned meddling seems to come around and bite our collective butts every time since WW2! I'm even beginning to worry more about recent events in the South China Sea than the Middle East cauldron!?! There is a grey zone of supposedly protecting alleged international rights or the old "**** with the bull and you'll get the horn!" Don't ask me where that line is...I'm stupid but you know all the answers. I'll defer to your superior knowledge and intellect! Especially concerning long range shooting! LOL. 
OR more seriously do we go to war however well or poorly intended, then PAY THE PRICE for the next generation or three! Refugees, disease, crime, medical care and death and disability benefits for Vetrans, broken families, "foreigners" taking more than their limits in Devils Lake, and a billion more ramifications!?! 
Or maybe you LIKE paying taxes and abandoning your so called "allies" and really showing our commitment to our supposed world wide friends. My grandmother once told me "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging!"


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> IMO the take home wisdom of all these fights that havre been ongoing for centuries around the world is to stay home. We can't change the world or export democracy or Christianity......wish that wasn't true, but our well intentioned meddling seems to come around and bite our collective butts every time since WW2!


I agree in that we can not be the world's police force. However, I would take that a step further. When terrorists strike us the country they come from gives them to us, or we go in full force. The Kurds for example would not be abandoned as you say, because there would be nothing left of the government who opposed them. Start another group like ISIS to retaliate and I would annihilate them. I would initiate a leave me alone and I will leave you alone policy. That combined with a screw with me and I will blow your a$$ out of existence policy. I would have no problem using small tactical nukes on terrorist training camps. Anything within a three mile radius dies. You don't want to die then don't live close to a terrorist training camp. This candy a$$ touchy feely liberal bs is going to destroy this nation and it is currently paving the way for WWIII. You may think your kind, but the world sees us as weak. More conservative will die protecting liberal pansies that cause war. It is weakness that causes war, not strength.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I'd be real hesitant to use unless though, because of the predictability of escalation from little ones that still would kill thousands a downwind and yes, over here too! We are still battling thousands of cases of thyroid and other cancers following our own Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico and South Pacific tests, not even counting the continuing devastation from the relatively tiny A Bombs 60 years ago. You don't want to open that Pandoras Box, at least I don't! Pretty soon it'd be "Americans started tossing them around, so we'll do it too....and the bombs get more. Numerous and bigger! The Mutually Assured Destruction worked reasonably well, still hanging in there. You don't want to start a chain reaction, IMHO! 
Yes, bomb the bad guy like ISIS, Al Quada, they have got to go, everyone agrees but use Cruise missles or as precision guided smart bombs we can. I sometimes wonder if we had put a billion dollar prize for the guy or group who brought in BIB LADIN following 911. Might have been WAY cheaper, not cost a lot of ?necessary American lives, taught the next Bin Ladin wannabe that crimes against USA doesn't pay. I suspect fellow terrorists in destitute third world countries would look at a b ill ion dollar bounty on the next bad guy and go for it!
Heck we spent over a billion dollars a DAY during the last gulf war, took us trillions in debt, and for what? To bring us all those horrid diseases you posted about, ongoing welfare, taxpayers getting writers cramp!?! Made a lot of millionaires into Billionaires! I realize it's easier to blame everything wrong in the world and in USA on those terrible unpatriotic Liberals, though I suspect that even if YOU of all people stepped back and had a single flash of objectivity you might agree that there's a lot of blame to go around!

It's more complicated with Russia and China though. Now with Russia in the Middle East?!?! A much bigger headache!! No bright ideas here....again I defer to your opinions. I doubt anyone knows the answer.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

Might as well put some data out here from the CDC and the actual Minnesota report for discussion (as opposed to the media articles). The report from MN health also notes that 86% of TB refugees have completed treatment and are TB free, the highest percentage in the nation. Second, TB testing is not just offered, it is mandatory for refugees. Third, the TB rate in the US among native born persons was 4 times higher in 1960 that it is now. I know, I test positive for TB even though I never had it but was evidently exposed to it as were many of us that old. I recall getting the tubercular skin test in grade school (in the 1950's) and about a third of my class had a positive reaction, even though we had never had it and it was much more common in farm kids. Even today In the US, between 5 and 10% of the population still tests positive with the skin test. TB vaccine only became readily available after WWII. TB is still a problem outside the US and as noted in the Minnesota report, after Somalia, Ethiopia and other, the next biggest contributor of TB cases is Mexico, then China and then Vietnam.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

disease is only one of the problems. Anyone want to take bets we get exploding vests just like Israel in the future. Of course the liberals will have some excuse that it's America's fault. I liked a book years ago called Life Boat. It followed on the premise that if anyone wants to let another person into the United States then you get out. It's like a life boat that holds 100 people. If you want to let another one on board then you get out of the boat. Also, I would like to see those who are for immigration speak up and at least put your name on a person. When he murders someone we hang you with them. It's easy to set in your Lazyboy and talk as if your a world class foreign affairs specialist. It's another thing to put your life where your mouth is.

You as in anyone reading this. Not picking on anyone.

Edit: It's probably not worth worrying about since Obama's weakness will likely have us in war with China, Russia, or both before Trump can take office. Then Obama will declare a national emergency and himself dictator so he can continue to destroy America.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Thanks for the info Indsport. When I was in Med School 51 years ago we all had to line up one morning and get BCG. At the time it was thought that it would protect us against TB while working with patients. Yep, it turned your skin test positive and presumably induced immunity, but basically it didn't work. In a way it was counterproductive as it confused the issue of recent conversion of the skin test as it was positive supposedly forever. Minterestimgly BCG is now a bit effective in preventing recurrence of bladder cancers, of all things. Quite a backlog and hard to get it, so there is quite a line of people with treated bladder cancers waiting for it.

Lots of research being done on better immunization but the bottom line is there's nothing that works very well yet. Once diagnosed it isn't that difficult to treat, though like leprosy it takes a lengthy treatment plan. Yep Bruce, we might even get the occasional case of leprosy from those Dratted invaders (they are all LIBERALS) and then you can post about that one, too! Kiddin you Plainsman.....

About 25 years ago we shot a wild turkey SW of Mandan and while c leaning it, it's abdomen was full of tumors that looked to me like an ovarian cancer! Took samples in to G & F and turned out to be Avian Tuberculosis. I remember as a kid the occasional case of Bovine Tuberculosis (back in the early 50's and I wonder if Indsport's and a lot of our positive tests back then came from meat or milk, or even infected poultry and we didn't even know it. The DOA and Veterinarians and meat inspectors have wiped that out now.

In any case, it's not the end of the world, just a minor speed bump in the great scale of things, Plainsman.

Not in my recliner....I hate being sedentary! .usually sitting over a p dog town, putting in food plots, or as I type this drivel. I'm sitting over a couple of stock ponds waiting for beavers to appear with the AR-15. Danged beavers plug the outlet culverts and then the dams flood out coasting my ranc her buddy a couple grand every time they do it. So I can wait for beavers while kidding you and yanking your chain! LOL. You sit in your recliner and I'll sit in the S X S and still connect to the Internet and kid U all day!LOL 
Again, thanks for the recent in fo Indsport!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Not in my recliner....I hate being sedentary! .usually sitting over a p dog town, putting in food plots, or as I type this drivel. I'm sitting over a couple of stock ponds waiting for beavers to appear with the AR-15. Danged beavers plug the outlet culverts and then the dams flood out coasting my ranc her buddy a couple grand every time they do it. So I can wait for beavers while kidding you and yanking your chain! LOL. You sit in your recliner and I'll sit in the S X S and still connect to the Internet and kid U all day!LOL


  :thumb: I understand. I did the same thing in Montana a few weeks ago. I was sitting at 6000 ft watching three valleys below at 5000 ft. Watching for bear, but it kept snowing. So darn if I didn't have cell service. I always laughed at Shaug who kept accusing me of being in my hiddy-hole as he put it. Often I was in Texas, or Arizona, or hunting Montana, and he thought I was in my hiddy-hole. Sounds like your having a good time.

The TB thing is only known about legal aliens. I think there are a lot with no testing at all. It's only one of the problems that they bring with them. Perhaps the biggest is the entitlement attitude. That and the willingness to break the law to get here. If you think about it every illegal has a proven law breaking record.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Well Bruce, I'm a Liberal this morning! I Liberally Sprayed a couple beavers with my AR "hose!" And a raccoon earlier! 
The other day I nailed a beaver at 150 yards with my little .17 Savage A17! A bit undergunned for a big old beaver, but one Conservative shot between the eyes was all it took! 
See, I'm both conservative AND Liberal! But this time you'd probably approve! :lol: 
Yep, the miracles of modern communication........rareley is one out of touch!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Hey glad some sleep well. Have fun fishing and hunting I will too, but I will also remain vigilant. Rest easy those of us who are more responsible will cover for the rest of you.  Keep in mind these tens of thousands ummmmm hundreds of thousands of illegals don't go through any screening. Obama will make light of this.

Sure sure the mosquitoes will bring it, but check out a entomology book. Mosquitoes move to new or carry new diseases generation by generation to a new geologic area. Illegal aliens who travel a thousand miles of further in a couple of weeks carry it a lot faster. I'll bet the pharmaceutical companies love illegal aliens. It's going to be big business for the medical field. They will love zika like farmers love ethanol.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cdc-offici ... d=39332409


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Hey Plainsman, I see on Fox News this am there is a measles outbreak in Southern California, traced back to an illegal worker, one of many illegal workers!
Too bad we couldn't get the legal people you start prosecuting everyone who hires illegals, and "Baird" them across the line so the employers can line their own pockets, at the expernsse of you and I and the rest of the taxpayers who are reading this! ELIMINATE THE JOBS AND THE ILLegals WOULD HAVE NO REASON TO COME HERE AND SOME AT LEAST WOULD CLEAR OUT, ESPECIALLY IF ALL WELFARE AND MEDICAL STUFF CUT OFF! 
OR, figure out some way you license therm for legal jobs, tax them, follow therm up and make sure thry go bavk when the legally registered email jobs are done! 
OOps, the Republicans wouldn't allow going after illegal jobs!! It would hit the Bibnle belt too hard! 
Oops, the Democrats nwoukdnt allow proper registration and follow up (MICROCHIP THEM) and deportation when the legally registered jobs are done! 
Oh well, we taxpayers are paying again....and again...And the country continues spinning itys where else while the rest of the world laughs at our "fences" and nonsense.....


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Habitat Hugger said:


> Hey Plainsman, I see on Fox News this am there is a measles outbreak in Southern California, traced back to an illegal worker, one of many illegal workers!
> Too bad we couldn't get the legal people you start prosecuting everyone who hires illegals, and "Baird" them across the line so the employers can line their own pockets, at the expernsse of you and I and the rest of the taxpayers who are reading this! ELIMINATE THE JOBS AND THE ILLegals WOULD HAVE NO REASON TO COME HERE AND SOME AT LEAST WOULD CLEAR OUT, ESPECIALLY IF ALL WELFARE AND MEDICAL STUFF CUT OFF!
> OR, figure out some way you license therm for legal jobs, tax them, follow therm up and make sure thry go bavk when the legally registered email jobs are done!
> OOps, the Republicans wouldn't allow going after illegal jobs!! It would hit the Bibnle belt too hard!
> ...


Where is this Bible belt you speak of?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ooops how is this possible. Don't they all get screened?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ince-2011/

I can't block and copy from the site for some reason, but there is active TB in a number of states because of immigration.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Even assuming Breitbart website is accurate (LOL) ten in 8000 is a pretty small number, especially when you understand that there is no 100% always accurate test for TB! And no immunization, that that phones guy on that right wing website supposedly said! 
I'm not FOR or AGAINST 'immigration' of people disrupted by wars and killing goons like ISIS. I dunno what we should do or where we should stand.
What I do think is that we should leave medical stuff and public health to the professionals, Space stuff up to NASA or their private lookalikes, oil changing my pickup to the oil changing pros today, and so on. 
Maybe even leave wars up to the pro soldiers, rather then the often draft dodging politicians who decide to "take out" some two bit dictator and orders the Pentagon toy do it! Unless we LIKE paying lots andf lots of income tax! I don't! 
We'll be paying for Mideast Wars for several lifetimes! Is it/was it worth it? You decide....I'm going fishin...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The immigration is a tough one.....

because this country was founded by immigrants. We also want religious freedoms.... yet many are denouncing a certain religion. It is a tough call and slippery slope that we as a nation are on right now. But I think if you immigrate into the USA or are traveling to the USA via visa etc. that we need to have a check to make sure they are up on shots. If not... no entry or you pay for the shots once you arrive. I know that isn't cost feasible but you it is something.

Now on diseases.....

The diseases are not just immigrants coming in now. But also our own citizens that are not vaccinating their own children. There is that "push" or "craze" right now.

I have talked with many people in the medical field on this.... it is more about cancer and other diseases.... but are we not mutating them or making the "super bug".

What I mean is that look at the preservatives in our foods. yes they have been tested....but they only have been around for 50 years or so.... what is the longer term effects? Also with every new "flu" shot given.... are we not helping it mutate into something that is resistant to the old shots? One of my friends is a lab rat and is now working on finding cure for cancer... he has worked on many other diseases but now his lab is working on cancer. Anyway he told me they put out a piece of "white" bread on the counter outside of their lab. So it isn't in a "sterilized" area..... it took 2 weeks to show any sign of aging. Is this natural??? So are we reaping what we sewed because of our advancement in technology, food preservatives, medical field, etc.

Just some food for thought.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

One problem with vaccinations for people wanting to immigrate or get a visa is that a lot of disease have NO vaccination yet! Despite Plainsmans rant on another thread about TB, the only thing has been BCG but it doesn't work hardly if at all so isn't used. Yep, there's ongoing research on a bunch of new things, but so far it's only experimental. BCG interestingly is showing some possible role in a few certain types of cancers. Time will tell....I got BCG as a student 50 years ago, so hope there might be still a tiny residual anti cancer effect. Skin test still positive I think! 
Yes, I agree that the biggest disease problem in public health right now is turning out to be the growing number of antivaccers. Of course there is the occasional side effect from ANY vaccine and even death from childhood bass inactions, but like most things in medicine you have to ask yourself " does the potential benefit of this stuff (drug, vaccine, surgery, radiation, etc) outweigh the potential side effects? 
During a presidential candidate debate last year I almost grabbed my 20 pound sledge hammer and mashed the TV when I heard MOST of The candidates bashing vaccinations! WOW! Couldn't believe iT! The main culprits were mostly the bible wavers. Not trying to offend anyone, just keep asking myself "why invariably this group? Politicians should be barred from ever pontificating about public health issues! But how can people in such high levels of govt. possibly be so absolutely WRONG? And becoming progressively anti Science, too! Of course this bunch was mainly aiming at the HPV vaccinations, using the old " tell kids about protecting themselves from side effects of screwing and tHe kids will want to to the dirty!?! After treating far too many cervical cancers, I was appalled at the crap this bunch was spewing forth on a Presidential debate no less! And these people are smart enough to know exactly what they were doing, too! Glad none got in, but then who did we get? Much better from a public health view, but no so great I n other areas, IMHO.

Food additives, preservatives, GMO 's etc. I have little knowledge, therefore no opinion on. ALL I can say is those in power better OBJECTIVELY look at all this stuff stuff in the way I outlined above. "Does the potential benefit to our citizens outweigh possible side effects or negative complications from it?" 
Of course politicians, especially the anti science idiots we have in both parties will NEVER objectively scrutinize any issue like they should, and get objective info and data about it, only THEN making up their minds and commenting or making laws about said issue. And yes I know science is not always correct and perfect, Properly peer reviewed stuff is pretty good, though. And of course, if there is any controversy, people will always believe what they want to believe too


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I didn't mean my rant about preservatives and what not to be against them.

What I am saying some of the cancers, diseases, flu, "bugs" out could be a product of our own advancement? I mean we could be reaping what we have sewn. I mean look at our technological advances. Now if someone doesn't answer a text message with in 10 mins people are upset. Because they want their info now. It is because we as a society can get out information and communicate so fast that we want things now. Again reaping what we have sews with technological advances. Maybe with medicine and diseases we are doing the same?

Also a different topic.... but we as a society are living longer.... so that is draining our medical field, social services, etc. part of the economy. Again reaping what we sew type situation. I don't mean to sound morbid but if you want to look at the whole discussion completely this is one aspect. But again off topic.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I didn't mean my rant about preservatives and what not to be against them.

What I am saying some of the cancers, diseases, flu, "bugs" out could be a product of our own advancement? I mean we could be reaping what we have sewn. I mean look at our technological advances. Now if someone doesn't answer a text message with in 10 mins people are upset. Because they want their info now. It is because we as a society can get out information and communicate so fast that we want things now. Again reaping what we have sews with technological advances. Maybe with medicine and diseases we are doing the same?

Also a different topic.... but we as a society are living longer.... so that is draining our medical field, social services, etc. part of the economy. Again reaping what we sew type situation. I don't mean to sound morbid but if you want to look at the whole discussion completely this is one aspect. But again off topic.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

More information. Diseases we had all but eradicated are back.
www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/0 ... fugee-day/


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

How many dead Americans will it take before liberals pull their head out of the sand and admit there is a problem? This can not be left up to the medical community who see it as a new Cadillac in their garage. I often wonder how hard it would be to cure cancer and if the medical field really wants to cure it. 
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ent-idaho/
http://www.infowars.com/border-patrol-a ... o-disease/


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