# Thoughts on the debate



## Benelliman (Apr 4, 2005)

I was browsing here looking to see if someone started a thread on the debate.

Who won? What is the definition of winning? I've seen stuff on the news over the weekend on it. Did all of you catch that stuff?


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

I thought they both did well.

I think Jim Lehrer won.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I agree, Jim did a good job of keeping them focused and made the debate a debate instead of a talking points interview.

Best one I've seen in a long time


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

It's evident they both did well, and there was no clear winner or we would certainly hear about it. Like you had said Robert each side perhaps thinks their man won, and when things are this close that is what happened. McCain's people were pleased, and so was Obama's. 
I see many of the news pundits think Obama won, but the public went three to one for McCain winning, but only a slight edge over Obama. I think Obama simply making it through was a benefit for him, so maybe they both won something.
I was a little suspicious of Obama coming up with the "I have a bracelet too". Now I see the parents (even the mother) have asked him not to wear the bracelet or use their sons' name again. But he has, which is very disrespectful. The parents are divorced with the mother being an Obama supporter, and the father being a McCain supporter. The father and son were in Iraq together as I understand. Mothers are always going to be against wars, and will always turn their back on danger until it comes to their door.
I think an important point McCain made was that Obama was the most liberal member of the senate and you could't reach across the isle from that far left. McCain is well known as the least partisan of all senators.

Might I add that each year less people pay attention to debates. They don't take their responsibility as citizens seriously, and one of these years we are going to get a very bad president that damages this nation.



> McCain-Obama debate pulls average early rating
> The first debate between John McCain and Barack Obama is on track to pull a surprisingly average viewership number, drawing fewer households in the preliminary ratings than George W. Bush's face off against John Kerry four years ago.


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## LuckCounts (Aug 8, 2008)

Well, with Obama being touted as a great debater I don't think he came out a winner by virtue of a tie. Thought that this was supposed to be a strong suit for him. To me McCain seemed more like one of us and drew from his experience in his answers. Obama has a condescending way of speaking that doesn't appeal to me, although that is a really low point on my list for not supporting him. If he tried to join McCain to Bush one more time I think I would have puked. I'm interested to see Palin in a debate. The VP's may very well be the deciding factor in this election.


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## willythekid (Jan 21, 2008)

I agree with bobm on it being the best debate in a long time.... but I've yet to find anybody who thought McCain won, with the exception of this forum. Try to google presidential debate and poll and see what you can find. I even tried Fox News but couldn't find anything.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Well, with Obama being touted as a great debater I don't think he came out a winner by virtue of a tie. Thought that this was supposed to be a strong suit for him.


 :rollin:



> debate time will "change" all that! Man I can't wait to watch. We'll see what tune you are singing then...


Remember that quote? I saved it in word just in case it somehow disappeared. We heard that when Bush was going to debate Kerry, we heard it when Bush was going to debate Al Gore, we hear it from liberals every time we have a presidential election. We also hear what a genius the wife of the liberal candidate is. It's liberal self image. They think they are genius and if your conservative your automatically a fool. It comes out every time we debate a strong liberal attitude.

So Obama didn't walk all over McCain as predicted by liberals. I wonder if that will gain him respect or the same illogical hate Bush gets.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

i was not impressed with either candidate..i heard the same numbers and cliches that have been circulating in the previous campaign rhetoric, nothing new from either candidate.


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## LuckCounts (Aug 8, 2008)

willythekid,
I read in the newspaper in my area, (The Tribune Review, a paper that is not friendly at all to the conservative point of view) that in their opinion it was "Advantage McCain". Their reasoning was that on the economy, Obama was better, but only by a slight margin. On the safety and security of our Country, McCain was, hands down, better prepared to lead us. Not sure if that's how America viewed it. Kissinger came out minutes after the debate refuting Obama's claim. Didn't hear too much of that in the media though, I may have missed it.


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## Benelliman (Apr 4, 2005)

LuckCounts said:


> willythekid,
> I read in the newspaper in my area, (The Tribune Review, a paper that is not friendly at all to the conservative point of view) that in their opinion it was "Advantage McCain". Their reasoning was that on the economy, Obama was better, but only by a slight margin. On the safety and security of our Country, McCain was, hands down, better prepared to lead us. Not sure if that's how America viewed it. Kissinger came out minutes after the debate refuting Obama's claim. Didn't hear too much of that in the media though, I may have missed it.


After listening to all the Sunday shows, and then going out to look at a bunch of sites, even the Conservative commentators were saying that Obama more than held his own. In fact shockingly, many were saying he out performed McCain, and they were disappointed in his performance.

After reading all of the polls that have come out since that time, pretty much all declaring Obama certainly the winner, if not a pretty clear winner, can we all now agree that this forum of guys know nothing about how "average" Americans are going to view anything? Particularly how they view a debate?

the CNN poll, conducted among debate-watchers asked this

Regardless of which candidate you happen to support, who do you think did the best job in the debate -- Barack Obama or John McCain?
Obama 51%
McCain 38% 
Did _______ do a better or worse job than you expected?
Obama: Better 57%, Worse 20%, Same 23%
McCain: Better 60%, Worse 20%, Same 18%

Next, regardless of which presidential candidate you support, please tell me if you think Barack Obama or John McCain would better handle each of the following issues:

• The war in Iraq: Obama 52%, McCain 47%

• Terrorism: McCain 49%, Obama 45%

• The economy: Obama 58%, McCain 37%

• The current financial crisis: Obama 54%, McCain 36%

Thinking about the following characteristics and qualities, please say whether you think each one better described Barack Obama or John McCain during tonight's debate:

• Was more intelligent: Obama 55%, McCain 30%

• Expressed his views more clearly: Obama 53%, McCain 36%

• Spent more time attacking his opponent: McCain 60%, Obama 23%

• Was more sincere and authentic: Obama 46%, McCain 38%

• Seemed to be the stronger leader: Obama 49%, McCain 43%

• Was more likeable: Obama 61%, McCain 26%

• Was more in touch with the needs and problems of people like you: Obama 62%, McCain 32%

Based on what _______ said and did in tonight's debate, do you think he would be able to handle the job of president if he is elected?
Obama 69%-29%
McCain 68%-30%

I was shocked!

So another poll from CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/09/26 ... 2028.shtml)that I found found similar results among undecided voters. With them, Obama won by a huge 15-point margin.

And, on top of that, check out the reactions of people in this Fox News focus group. Even they gave Obama the win:

What the hell?






On a different note, I was going to mention how struck I was by how visibly furious John McCain seemed to be the whole time. Did you all notice? Go watch a clip from the debate again. The not-looking at Obama was parsed a lot in the early morning news shows...was it contempt? was it guilt? what was it? It was total rage!

All of McCain's body language and mannerisms were exuding the fury of someone used to getting their way and thwarted by someone thought to be inferior. To me it was striking.

Otherwise I think there's a lot of worried second-guessing this week, and I think it's easy to underestimate how fully Obama has adopted the stance of unflappability to his advantage. Where as liberals still nursing painful memories of wimpy Democrats from Kerry all the way back to Dukakis long for a candidate who will get angry and fight back, Obama's responses seem carefully calibrated to seem tough without being threatening. I'm sure Obama and his handlers are acutely aware of the line he must walk here.

Many people from varying backgrounds see McCain's relentless condescending attacks as signs of weakness rather than strength, and Obama's refusal to be baited as signs of calmness under pressure rather than weakness.

So in that light, I do think alot of you are underestimating Obama's performance.

I anticipated that he would bury McCain (based mostly on McCain's inability to read a teleprompter) and when they were done and it was close, I was mildly shocked to say the least. Later, as I was listening to the discussions about the debate and remembering key moments, I started to realize how well Obama performed. He really grilled McCain on his Iraq decisions and his comment on McCain's bracelet ("I have a bracelet too...") was masterful; he completely deflated what could have been a strong anti-withdrawal statement from McCain.

This was the foreign policy debate. Obama was supposed to lose and if he succeeded in keeping pace or even coming out a few points ahead, it's a big win for him.

The Republicans hopefully took notice and make some changes before election day.


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## LuckCounts (Aug 8, 2008)

Wish you only had the CNN and CBS polls. I wouldn't believe they were credible. Sad to hear the FOX report. Obama is downright scary. I can't understand how so many people can be in his corner.


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## Benelliman (Apr 4, 2005)

LuckCounts said:


> Wish you only had the CNN and CBS polls. I wouldn't believe they were credible. Sad to hear the FOX report. Obama is downright scary. I can't understand how so many people can be in his corner.


Then another site had this video






When folks see stuff like this, it is hard to refute.

He made a whole bunch of predictions that folks believed him because he had the experience at the time. Looks like the experience that he had gave him the insight to make those statements.

I'm someone who believed those words back then. I believed just like he did, but I was basing some of my belief that he knew more than me. I'm sure that alot of folks feel like they were lied to also. I know I do.

It sucks that we have just these two choices for President. But most folks right now care a ton more about the economy compared to any other issue. If that is the case, it will be a landslide for Obama.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Hey guys.....here's something to chew on.

Remember when the average American was smart enough to know what he just heard/saw all my himself? You know, without having a group of people EXPLAIN to him what he just heard or saw.

Man, I miss those days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For the life of me I can't figure out why we take a test to drive....but only have to be able to breathe to vote (unless you're in Chicago......then the breathing is not mandatory !!!!!)

I know what the problem is...it's become the opposite of survival of the fittest, and the average IQ is falling faster than the stock market!

If we were deer, it would be time for a disease outbreak. If we were timber, there would be a forest fire. But since we're humans...........

.....I guess it's time for OBAMA !!!!!!!!!!!

Don't take any of this post seriously (except the Obama part :wink: ). Just trying to sprinkle in some humor while making a minor point, but it really wizzes me off that it has gotten to this point that people are so easily swayed.

Simply put, if you need Britt Hume or James Carville to explain things to you, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS VOTING !!!!!!!

There...I said it. Just don't have much tolerance for people who use other people's heads to make up THEIR mind! uke:

I'm done now. :soapbox:

Carry on.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> All of McCain's body language and mannerisms were exuding the fury of someone used to getting their way and thwarted by someone thought to be inferior. To me it was striking.


I thought he was angry not because he was thwarted by someone he thought inferior, but because he was on stage with someone he perhaps looks at as a traitor. John McCain nearly died for his country while Obama says our soldiers perform air raids killing innocent women and children. I would be furious if I had to be in the same room with Obama. I can't find words to describe how low I think Obama is. If it was Obama and Benedict Arnold up for election and I had to vote for one --- not much of a choice.

CSquared, I agree on the commentators. They are an insult to intelligent people. Why do they assume that so many who just listened to someone speak are to stupid to understand? They have to be some of the most arrogant people out there.


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## Sportin' Woodies (Jun 26, 2006)

> John McCain nearly died for his country while Obama says our soldiers perform air raids killing innocent women and children. I would be furious if I had to be in the same room with Obama. I can't find words to describe how low I think Obama is.


good words


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## Benelliman (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> > All of McCain's body language and mannerisms were exuding the fury of someone used to getting their way and thwarted by someone thought to be inferior. To me it was striking.
> 
> 
> I thought he was angry not because he was thwarted by someone he thought inferior, but because he was on stage with someone he perhaps looks at as a traitor. John McCain nearly died for his country while Obama says our soldiers perform air raids killing innocent women and children. I would be furious if I had to be in the same room with Obama.


Apparently all the other folks on the morning shows must all be wrong.

It was striking though. McCain's body language spoke volumes about his feelings. We had someone here awhile back who made alot of hay about body language and not looking someone in the eye.

What was it that was said again? Dishonesty, avoidance, shiftiness, not speaking the full truth? Something along those lines.

McCain simply looked like a man out of his element at the debates. You have to admit he didn't look happy. He looked like a man ready to explode and lose his temper. You remember that famous temper right?

Not exactly the regal bearing of someone who needs to look more Presidential if you ask me.

Why oh why couldn't the Republicans selected someone better?


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

the repubs could not have picked a more honorable, honest man. the dems could not have picked a more radical. left wing fruit cake who only has a silver tongue going for him....and who lies about his position on gun control and Henry Kissinger's position on negotiating with terrorists....i could go on, but most know the other garbage that is stuck to No-bama!


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