# Fur caliber......



## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

Hi Folks. Here it goes. I just recently bought a .223 and want to have it rebarreled to one of the following; 17 Rem, 17 Mach IV, 19 Calhoon, .221 Fireball, or 22 Hornet. Now, before I get hammered with this and that, let's get some particulars. 1) I already have the gun, so don't tell me to go with a single shot or Encore. I want this gun and I want these calibers. 2) The reason I bought a .223 is because I am a lefty and there are no manufacturers who make the 5 calibers I mentioned in a left handed gun. Again, I don't want to shoot righty, I want a left handed gun, I don't want a single shot, I want the gun I have, so please, no advice about the gun. It's a done deal, gonna be rebarrreled. 3) I'm not interested in your opinions on the .223. I don't want it, thus, I'm rebarreling. I think it's tough on fur. Whether you believe that or not, I am not going to use it, so please don't tell me to shoot a .223, or a 22-250, .243, whatever. I want one of the five calibers I listed. 4) I DO NOT RELOAD and I have absolutely no desire to. My main goal is not .5 moa accuracy or olympic style benchrest accuracy. I am plenty accurate with factory guns and factory ammo. I simply want a fur gun that will be good out to 200 yards, although most shots will be under 100 yds, that will humanely kill a coyote sized animal and leave little, if any, fur damage. I have shot factory barrels and factory ammo my whole life and have never had a problem with accuracy. 5) I'm not worried about it being cheaper to shoot this or that, use the .223 because you can find ammo anywhere, even if you forget it, etc., I am going to use one of the factory loads I will list below. THEY ARE READILY available and there will be NO problem getting them. Thus, I will be using one of the loads listed below, again, which are made by the factory. That's what I am going to use, nothing else. SO, I am looking for an opinion, about the ammo I LISTED. Here is what I can get...

17 Rem - 20 gr accutip or 25 gr hollow point 
17 Mach IV - 20 gr vmax or 25 gr hollow point 
19 Calhoon - 27, 32, 36, 40, and 44 gr hollow pt 
22 Hornet - 45 gr PSP or 37, 42, and 45 gr hollow point 
221 Fireball - 37 or 42 gr hollow point or 50 gr accutip

Now, knowing the above, here's the question; which one of the 5 calibers I've listed, will be the most effective to use as my calling gun? Remember, my shots will be normally under 100 yds on coyote and fox, sometimes as far as 200 yds. I want a gun that, number one, will humanely kill a coyote sized animal, and, number two, causes little, if any, fur damage. Then, from that caliber, which bullet would you pick from the above? I KNOW THERE IS NO PERFECT ANSWER. No gun will do what I ask everytime and perfectly, but I want the one that you feel would be the closet. Please don't tell me to use the .223, only one of the 5 calibers I listed, please do not tell me to reload, there are factory offerings for all of the calibers I've listed, and don't tell me to trap !! I know many of you would do it different, use this and that, do this, etc., but I am confident in my ability so I'm just looking for opinions of what caliber, out of the five I've listed, you'd use, and out of the bullets available for that caliber, which one would you use. I'd like to hear your opinions. Right now, my thoughts are the .221 Fireball with a 37 grain bullet. But, that changes daily!! Yesterday, I was thinking 19 Calhoon in 40 grain, and the Mach IV in 20 gr accutip crossed my mind as well. I'm cornfused. What do you think? Thanks.


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

The 17 rem would be the smartest choice of the 5 listed. Why, faactory ammo is available in many more places than the others. Performance would be right where you want it to be, and it will likely be available for many years on dealers shelfs while the others may not be. All that said, would you try the 223 loadde with a 40gr bullet and see how it performs while you are deciding on what to rebarrel to? I think you would find this loading to preform where you would like. I understand the want for something not real common, but this usually comes at the cost of reloading. All that said, read up on the 17 rem and see if it is what you can live with.


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## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

Thanks Whelen. Good advice!! NUNK


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Come on man! the 19 calhoon is an awesome Calibre! didnt you read the Hype on there website!

As much as i like the idea of the 19 calhoon, the 17 rem is probably the best choice for you.


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## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

I hear ya!! That's why I want some opinions from people who actually use them!! LOL!!! I also worry that if and when they go out of business (did you see the website? James is lookin' old!) nobody else will make ammo or cleaning rods for them. That's a definitely drawback!! Right now, I'm liking the Fireball and the Mach IV. Thanks for the advice though. 17 Rem is still a consideration.


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

If you are not going to reload, the 19 is very limmited as to avalibility. The 221 has come and gone and is back again. The performance is very simular to the 223 that you don't want. The 22 hornet is a fun round to play with, but is on the low end of power. The 17IV is also harder to find ammo for, and is very much a 17 rem in performance. The 17 rem will not need any bolt alteration=less cost for change. A 25gr bullet at 4000fps will do all you want for fur hunting, and will likely not exit. You can keep the old barrel, and if you want, can have it put back on and shoot yoiur 223 if you should desire. The 17 rem had been loaded and sold for 30+ years, and with the crop of 17 rimfires, bullet selection and interest seems to be on the rise adding resale value to your project. Again just adding more information.


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Well it sounds like you pretty much stated how we all SHOULD anwser your question so it sounds to me like you don't need my advice. If you want a bunch of expierenced callers and shooters to give you advice i would reccomend in the future just letting them answer instead of formatting their answer for them :eyeroll:


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## Drew Willemsen (Sep 29, 2003)

I'd go with the .223.....

just kidding  I really would, but try the rem IMO, good luck with your project...


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## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

Brad - no disrespect, but I don't want a .223. I am an experienced caller myself. I have used a .223 and it blows up fur. I don't want it. Don't respond if you don't like my question. It was very simple. I am looking for a gun in one of those 5 calibers only. Which one would you pick and which bullet. If you don't have one of those calibers or don't use them, simply don't respond. Takes care of that. :wink:

Whelen - thanks for the advice!


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## the_rookie (Nov 22, 2004)

ok this is what i gotta say i honestly would leave it with the 223 but if ur insisted on changing it the 17 might not be enoguh the 17 mach two is definitly not enough and the 19 is great for coyotes up to 500 yards and as u said no good for where u are and the 221would be a good one but like i said a really good shooter to 300 yards might be better and the 22 hornet might be a good pick but dont wanna go past 150 with that and the 223 has the cheapest ammo so if U R INSISTED ON CHANGING IT GO WITH 
223

17 UP TO 125 YARDS
OR THE 22 HORNET 
those r ur choices pretty much


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## .17remman (Dec 7, 2004)

I have used the .17 Remington extensively (it's on it's 3rd barrel) and I would be hard pressed to say if there is a better round out to 300 yards for taking coyotes and foxes cleanly and not damaging the pelts. I haven't used much factory ammunition, but I handload the 25 grain hornady hollow point, and at 4100 fps and zeroed at 100 yards, it only drops 5.7 inches at 300 yards. I'm glad you're considering this fine caliber, and I would definitely recommend it.


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## jgtalbot (Dec 15, 2004)

Nunk: Good question. I studied them all and settled on 19-223 Calhoon. Got new barrel and dies from him last week and now looking for action, etc. Have had great accuracy and hide with 221 Fireball and will continue. Like to piddle with several guns.

Go with 19-223. And PLEASE tell me where you can get loaded ammo??? I would like to start with someone elses, for fireforming, etc. :beer:


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

17 Rem! I have used one for 20 years on fox and yotes. Nothing better for pelts.300 yard gun and I have killed yote out to 400 yrds. It is amazing how it kills, go for it.


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## plainsdrifter (Mar 15, 2004)

Any of the 5 caliber would be effective at ranges previously mentioned however I would personally prefer the 17Rem based on performance and also the fact that factory accuracy loads has been hard to beat even in my reloads.


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## TheEnd (Jan 6, 2005)

well i say just use a 25-06 ... very accurate and i like the clean enterance and clean exit :sniper: but u could all ways use a .338 remington ultra for those far out shots :lol: j/k


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