# beneli vs beretta (semi auto)



## mnswd

Thinking about getting a semi auto for pheasant hunting - 
looking at a Beretta Optima 391 vs a Benelli M2 or SBE.

what do you think :huh:


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## always_outdoors

I would stay away from the M2. It tends to stick. Seen it happen to a few guys and you will find more on "shotgun" forums.

I would take the Berretta 391 anyday. That is one of the nicest semi autos on the market right now.


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## usmarine0352

*
Benelli SBE II - All the Way.*

No DOUBT, buy the Benelli SBE II. It is a lighter, nicer, easier on the shoulder, easier to clean gun.

It's only like $100 bucks more, which is nothing in the course of a lifetime of ownership.

We have 3 Benelli SBE II's and 2 Benelli SBE's in my family.....all love them.

They are inertia operated....much better then gas...which is not only more work to clean...but more prone to jamming in bad weather, or if not cleaned properly.

Most gas opertated guns are lighter recoil....except the Benelli. It is the lightest out there.

The Beretta is heavier and more clumbsier.... I know that they are also fatter foreends...which was a pain...but apparently the new ones aren't as fat, because people complained. I've shot the original one...but not the new one.

All I know is that Benelli's are the lightest, fastest, cleanest, and easiest on the shoulder....can't beat that.

All of our Benelli's are 26" barrell's. We blind hunt for ducks and field hunt for pheasant in SD..... the "26 barrell is the best compromise for all hunting conditions.

However......my buddy just bought a SBE II with a 24" barrel.....and man, is that nice. Now one of the guys who got his in 26" inch barrel wants to buy another barrel for his, a 24".

A longer barrel is easier to swing. But if your a good shot, it shouldn't matter. If I was a good shot, I'd definitely go for a 24" inch barrel now.

We all have BLACK MATTE, because of problems with the CAMO ones.

I now think that a 24" inch barrel might be nice too. My friend bought one, and man is it handy.

If I could get more then one gun, I'd have a 24" and 26" Benelli Super Black Eagle II.


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## jgat

usmarine0352 said:


> *
> Benelli SBE II - All the Way.*
> 
> No DOUBT, buy the Benelli SBE II. It is a lighter, nicer, easier on the shoulder, easier to clean gun.


Have you ever shot, or cleaned an Xtrema 2? Not saying the SBE 2 is a bad gun, just wondering.


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## Ron Gilmore

First off while both are semi auto shotguns that is really where the comparisons end. 391 is a gas operated gun, and as a result is going to transfer less felt recoil. Berreta in the Extrema II have covered both the inside and outside components with a corrosion resistant product. For people that hunt in salt water conditions this is a great feature.

SBEII is inertia driven and will have more felt recoil as a result. Not sure on the corrosion protection on these guns others may be able to fill you in.

Contrary to what many claim both need to be cleaned to be dependable guns. The SBE does break down easier, but not by much. Both come with shim kits to allow adjustments for fit, but the EX II have the ability to adjust length of pull.

My preference is gas autos because of felt recoil. If you plan on using heavy 3 1/2" loads you will notice the difference after a day of gunning. Otherwise cost and personal feel are really the determining factor. Handle them and then make your choice. Asking for anything beyond what mechanically is different between the guns is like asking which is a better truck Ford or Chevy. People want to feel that what they shoot is the best. It is human nature. Fit is more important than anything and both of these guns now can be made to fit most shooters.


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## fox412

I chose the SBE II because when I pulled it up to my shoulder it felt better to me than the berretta. I would imagine the both are great guns. I know the benelli is. You probably will be pleased with either.


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## Horsager

I spent 5 years at a gun shop. We sent back _*DOZENS *_of Benelli's each year. In that same time we sent back exactly 1 Beretta. A 303 that was re-assembled incorrectly by the owner after cleaning.

I've been shooting Beretta semi-auto's since 1989 when I bought my 1st one used. It's over 30,000 rounds now. I've had the odd jam or failure to function. It's always been my own fault, didn't keep it clean enough at times. Cleaning a Beretta is no great mystery either, no more difficult than a Benelli, I've had both apart 100's of times.

Beretta's are softer shooting, just as easy to clean, and will just plain last longer than a Benelli. Course I've only seen several hundred examples of each, someone else's milage may vary.


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## Hardsell

I've had my SBEI for 8 years now. It's been to CO, MN, SD, and TX. It always gets cleaned after an outing, so maybe proper maintenance may have a factor in it. I've never had a problem with it, no matter the conditions. I think that after shouldering one and finding out which one feels the best is important. I think recoil is relative. It depends on the situation. If it's the middle of winter and you're wearing a heavy coat you might not feel anything. I'm 5'3, 115lbs and I shoot 3 1/2 inch magnum shells without a problem. There are two Benelli SBEI's and four SBEII's in my family, if that says anything.


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## djleye

Great thread, I have been looking at the two as well. I also wonder which would be easier to sneak past the wife...... :wink:

I always kind of laugh when someone says that he recoil is different on one VS the other. It is pretty rare that I even notice recoil on my guns. I do shoot trap occasionally and that is in shirtsleeve weather. Otherwise, when hunting in ND, It is pretty rare that it is that nice out.

I kind of am leaning towards the Beretta myself. Just like the way it feels. I have a buddy that has a 391 and I love the way it shoots


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## Hardsell

Then you all ready have your answer. You like the the feel of the gun and you like the performance. What else is there? The wife thing.. Buy your toys before you get married. lol


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## mnswd

Thanks for all the input -

Went with the 391 Optima - Got a used one at Cabela's last night for $699. It has a few scratches on the stock but otherwise looks and feels great.

Can't wait to shoot it!!!!


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## thehunterfisherman448

My dad and i both own Benelli M2s and they are pretty soft shooting, this thread could go on and on..... Benelli and Beretta are some of the best shotgun brands out there and there will always be disputes on which brand is better, its all opinion and both companies make nice guns.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

djleye said:


> Great thread, I have been looking at the two as well. I also wonder which would be easier to sneak past the wife...... :wink:


When you figure out a good way, please let me know :beer:



djleye said:


> * I have a buddy* that has a 391 and I love the way it shoots


What did that cost you? Being new to FM, I need to purchase one as well! :wink:


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## djleye

If you were to buy me one for Christmas, I wouldn't have to explain anything!!!!! :lol:


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## zettler

Do not forget that one company owns both brands...

I have seen the Beretta on sale at Bass Pro recently in the turkey model for under $900 in black synthetic - maybe around $829 or so. If your store will price match call the Bass Pro in Portage, IN and see what they have...

Good luck!


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## Horsager

Remmi_&_I said:


> djleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great thread, I have been looking at the two as well. I also wonder which would be easier to sneak past the wife...... :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> When you figure out a good way, please let me know :beer:
> 
> 
> 
> djleye said:
> 
> 
> 
> * I have a buddy* that has a 391 and I love the way it shoots
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What did that cost you? Being new to FM, I need to purchase one as well! :wink:
Click to expand...

What gun? Ohhh, that gun. No it's not new, I've had that for a long time.

Or, "Honey, look what I bought you today. Why? Because we'll have a lot more quality time together if we share a hobby, and I ain't scrapbook'n."

There should always be "Your's, Mine, and Our's" checkbooks. Bills come from "ours". Emergencies come from savings, next from whomever has money. Your's and Mine is used for fun stuff, without argument. That's how you really bring home your new gun, whatever it may be.


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## Springer

My wife was out in the the shed for the first time in a 1 1/2 yrs I guess because she asked me what was all that camo stuff with straw in it and where did all of those decoys come from?

I just said that I have had those for years. She is pretty good but she did say I know you bought a couple of guns last year and you are not buying any this year! I said ok but if a good deal comes along well you know. :roll:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

It's amazing how much gets spent from "our" account when it does me no good. "Look at the new picture I got for the house" or "We really needed another set of bedding..........for each room in the house" :eyeroll:

I really really really want a new gun. I just don't go looking because I know I'll come home with one and then she'll go spend $1000 to "even it out".

I beat the h*ll out of my guns so it is hard to justify spending so much money on something I'll scratch up on the first weekend out!!!!!!!


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## Hardsell

I think Benelli is coming out with a new shotgun called the Ultra..? Not sure on the name, but it's supposed so be very light. It only shoots up to 3 inch shells, but it would be perfect for pheasant hunting. The Benelli's are going to be very hard to beat, performance, maintanence, and longevitywise.


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> The Benelli's are going to be very hard to beat, performance, maintanence, and longevitywise.


The Benelli is very easy to beat performance, maintanence, and longevitywise. You buy a Beretta from the 302 model on up to the 391 model and it'll outlast any benelli by decades. As stated above, only several hundred examples of each to base my opinion from.


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## Hardsell

Like I've said before, there are four SBEII's and two SBEI's in my family. They get used in Texas, South Dakota, Colorado, and Minnesota. If Beretta was that great, we'd be shooting them. I prefer carrying a light shotgun for pheasant hunting and the Benelli is lighter than the Beretta. How do you argue with a shotgun that breaks into three main components to clean without any tools?


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> How do you argue with a shotgun that breaks into three main components to clean without any tools?


Because it actually does break, and Beretta's don't. Can't see equating your experience with 6 individual guns to that of someone who dealt with them every day, by the hundreds per season. Your experience is the equivilant of smoking one cigar and wanting to now write for afficianado magazine.


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## Hardsell

Ha. The new Benelli Ultra Light is six pounds. Probably pretty hard to beat weightwise. The Beretta site didn't list any shotgun weights that I could find. I've seen the Kick-Off system they have. Didn't think it was much of anything. Everyone is going to have their preferences, so we can agree to disagree. After handling the Beretta's their balance was nice, but the overall weight wouldn't be comfortable carrying all day long on a pheasant hunt compared to the SBE series or the new Ultra Light. After having my SBEI for 8 years and never having any problems it would be hard to convince me to go to a heavier shotgun.


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## Horsager

12ga 391 28" wood 7.75#

12ga 28" Montefeltro (closest comparison to my shotgun) 7.1#

12ga 28" SBEII 7.3#



> After having my SBEI for 8 years and never having any problems it would be hard to convince me to go to a heavier shotgun.


It's because you don't know any better.


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## Hardsell

Like I said.

Benelli Ultra Light. 6lbs. Get some.


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> Like I said.
> 
> Benelli Ultra Light. 6lbs. Get some.


You got one? You shot anything else?

I've spent seasons with SBE's, super 90's and Montefeltro's, and Remington's, and a couple S&W 1000's, Winchester Model 12's, and 870's, and 302/303/390/391 Beretta's off the top of my head. Call it an educated opinion. I've hunted pheasents a day or three too.


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## Hardsell

My back-up's a Remington 870. My older brother's back-up is a Beretta X-Trema. My younger brother has a BPS and and 870 as back-up. He used to have a Remington 1187. One of the guys in my group shoots a Browning Gold. It's nice, but very hefty. My other brother's have American Arms o/u's.


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## Horsager

So you've a bit of experience with 2 shotguns, might've shot 3-4 others a time or two, yet somehow you feel qualified to proclaim which is "best"? I suppose it's hard to hope for more as it's coming from the land of "Hunting Clubs and Duck Leases".


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## Hardsell

Ha. Don't hunt at clubs or lease land. Just a lot of scouting. You still haven't explained to me how you can compare a 7.75lb shotgun to a 6lb. shotgun.


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> Ha. Don't hunt at clubs or lease land. Just a lot of scouting. You still haven't explained to me how you can compare a 7.75lb shotgun to a 6lb. shotgun.


The bigger question is can you? Have you shot this 6# marvel or just read about it in the "we don't publish bad reports about anything" gun rags?

I'll hunt roosters 30+ days this fall, I can say for sure than 7.75# won't be a hinderance.

What can you say for certain regarding personal experience with the 6# wonder-gun?


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## Hardsell

As more of the the younger generation and women join our ranks I believe that weight will be an issue. So weight will play a significant part when one has to carry it all day through the fields. They can be bought at your local sporting goods store. This should be viewed in a much broader spectrum.


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> As more of the the younger generation and women join our ranks I believe that weight will be an issue. So weight will play a significant part when one has to carry it all day through the fields. They can be bought at your local sporting goods store. This should be viewed in a much broader spectrum.


So you basically know squat, which is what I've been getting at all along!

A 6# non-gas operated 12ga shotgun with 1 3/8oz late season pheasent loads would auger your runty arse into the ground up to your neck, I know that's still a pretty short hole but you don't put that recoil potential into the hands of the "younger generation" you spoke of, or for that matter anyone without extensive experience with big recoil, male or female. Or would you hand it to them (the kids and women you spoke of), let it (the 6# mavel you know squat about) knock them flat to their back and then laugh?


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## Hardsell

Duplicate.


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## Hardsell

Really? I'm 5'3, 115lbs. I have a Sako in .375 H&H and a Winchester in .458 Win. Mag. I have no problems shooting those. What do you have? I've shot 3 1/2 inch shotguns practically my whole life. I was a squad automatic gunner in the Army. I carried a 16lb. SAW with 45lbs of ammunition, not including my combat gear. So I don't think I need anyone telling me that I would be augered into the the ground. Nice try though. Thanks for the effort.


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## Horsager

We're not talking about a 10#+ rifle sending 370-550gns of powder/bullet down the barrel. Were talking about a 6# shotgun sending 650gn's of shot/powder down the barrel.

I shot a 375 H&H once.










Then I shot it again.










I even went back a 3rd time.










That last group measures .165" CTC. The groups were shot at 100yds in 2000, 2004, and 2007 with witnesses. The 375 H&H is no trick at all to shoot, especially in a 10# rifle. I've only got a half-dozen shots through a buddies .458, but it's no fire breather either in the recoil dept. The 378 and 416 WBY's are pure punishment.

While I've no experience with the 6# Benelli I do have plenty of expericence with 6#ish shotguns in 20 and 28 ga and I can tell you that a 3/4oz load from a 5.75# non-gas 28ga will get to me at about 150 rounds. I'd have 0 desire to shoot full-house magnum field loads through a 6# non-gas 12ga.


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## Hardsell

Very nice grouping. Just how big of a guy are you?


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## Horsager

5'10" 250#


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## Hardsell

Nice elk. It makes sense now. If I was twice the size I am now maybe I wouldn't worry about recoil as much either.


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## Horsager

I do worry about recoil, and I'm more than happy to carry an extra 1.5# of shotgun to combat it, especially if the shotgun is gas operated to soak up even more recoil. I can deal with recoil but I choose not to unless absolutely necessary.

When you go out and get some 1st hand experience instead of reading rags you'll begin to understand. Until you have that 1st hand experience you're no better than a Google cowboy.


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## Hardsell

I've shot plenty. In the civilian world and in the Army as an infantryman. When you've been with me where I've been give me a call. I would continue this battle of wits with you, but you are obviously unarmed. Good luck out there.


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## Horsager

Never been to battle, I have run through 16# of H335 loading 223's this spring/summer. That's about 4200rnds of 223. Lots of it run through an AR-15.

Serving our country is the nobelist of endevours, and I can't thank you enough, neither can anyone else who's never served.

I don't however see how your service is relevant to a shotgun discussion.

Fact is you have* ZERO* experience with the shotgun you're raving about, have nearly zero experience with shotguns other than the 2 you shoot and a few your party shoots, and yet somehow seem to think yourself enough in the know to make claims about the shotgun you own vs. one you've got nearly zero experience with. Above all that you'd be unable to compare/contrast with the slough of other offerings in the class as well. Some folks can do that without Google.


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## lunkerlander

I'm going to have to put in a vote for beretta. I bought my 391 five years ago and have not had any problems to date. I like the way it feels and shoots and would recomend them.


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## Hardsell

I'm intelligent to realize that I'm not going to take a teenager who is new to the sport by loading him up on a 6lb shotgun with magnum loads. The thing is when one is of smaller stature a lighter gun with standards loads will make the experience better. Having to carry a heavy shotgun around all day will be more memorable than how bad the recoil was.
As to the experience question many of the guys I hunt with have a selection of many different shotguns. So they aren't coming from some far away magazine. I've seen how they perform in the field as well as handled them. The one thing I have noticed is that the majority of guys I hunt with shoot Benellis. Many of them work for outdoor hunting stores. Of all sources they are definitely a great source of feed back. 
The military experience taught me how to properly take care of and operate a weapon in conditions that most people will never experience.
Considering the Benelli Ultra Light, past experience with the line of shotguns that they have is a good place to start. The Ford F150 has been the Truck of the Year for more years than any other brand. Yet the F150 is a different truck every time the body style and engine change. The fact is that Ford puts out a quality truck no matter which form it takes.


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## Horsager

My buddy says, blah, blah, blah. I think I might like something I've never tried blah, blah, blah. I know this guy at the sporting goods store, blah, blah, blah. Even with my very limited knowledge I can extrapolate, blah, blah, blah.

Hardsell, you have *ZERO* experience with the 6# wonder-gun. We all know you haven't shot one but, have you even had your hands on one? Having shot dozens of cases of shells through sub-guage shotguns from 5.5#-6.5# both gas and non-gas operated I can say for certain that a 6# 12ga that is recoil/inertia driven will be pure punishment.

Come back and write us an objective review when you have some personal experience with the shotgun, like 4-5 cases of shells in one season so as to have enough rounds to have the bugs worked out and give an honest assessment of reliablility. Get your 1st 1000 rounds down the pipe and tell us what you think. A couple rounds of skeet or a half-box in a day duck shoot won't cut it for an evaluation.


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## Jiffy

You know I've tried to stay out of this one because I have no practical knowledge of either shotgun. I am not really a "shotgun" guy. However, I do have practical knowledge of how many rounds Horsager sends down range. To make it brutally honest, you may want to pack a lunch if you plan on barking up that tree. I know him personally and he knows what the hell he is talking about. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that can attest to that.

Hardsell, for some reason the term "mall ninja" and "paper hat brigade" keeps coming to mind when I read your posts. Infantryman huh? When and where? Please feel free to PM me. Lets not clutter this thread up with drivel.


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## Ron Gilmore

Well today I shot a Ultra, a friend picked one up and we put some rounds through it. All I can say is that it is a light and fast gun. But even with 1 oz cheap Win loads the gun has a good amount of recoil. I doubt that I would want to put many heavy loads through it though. I did shoot 3 #6 1 3/8 oz lead loads and tonight I have a bruise on my shoulder!

I can shoot the same load out of my Berreta all day and never have a bruise!


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## usmarine0352

You guys are all fighting and bickering on here.

This thread started out asking for advice.

There's no reason for this. Everyone is free to put out there opinions (hopefully to help) and that's what they are. Opinions. They are NOT facts.

Everyone's entitled to their opinions.

We don't need to be fighting on here.

:sniper:


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## Horsager

No problem with opinions so long as they come from 1st hand personal experience.


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## Hardsell

Here's a simple question, Horsager. If I offered you two cars, the $345k Lamborghini Murcialago or a $27 Ford Mustang, barring price, which one would you take?


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## Hardsell

Jiffy,
2001. 2nd Squadron, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, Fort Carson, Colorado.
Unfortunately, the United States Army doesn't enlist "Ninjas." They could have offered you a job!


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> Here's a simple question, Horsager. If I offered you two cars, the $345k Lamborghini Murcialago or a $27 Ford Mustang, barring price, which one would you take?


Guessing I'd need to drive them both before I made the decision.

Do you have any experience with either of those cars or are they just like the 6# super-gun, you don't know jack about them either?

You are quickly entering the realm of paper-hat wearing burger flipper "paper hat brigade".


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## Hardsell

Based on the fact that you didn't answer the question? I asked which one would you choose, not which one would you test drive.


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## Horsager

Much like the shotguns I favor, I'd gain experience with both cars before making a decision as I've never driven either of them.

The "paper hat brigade" likes to talk about things that'll never happen, and since I know you're not here to give me any cars, lets get back to shotguns, specifically Benelli's vs. Beretta's.
By the way, Beretta's are better. I say this because I sent dozens of Benelli's back to Benelli each year, for 5 years for a wide range of maladies. In that same period I sent exactly 1 Beretta 303 in for repair because the owner had re-assembled it incorrectly. He put the tail on the bolt upside-down and broke it. 1 push-pin and a new tail later it were fixed. Had I the part I'dve fixed it in under 3 min. 'Course I've had the odd shotgun apart and back together.


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## Hardsell

Well, it's a hypothetical question, which you aren't going to answer. I'm fine with that. This horse has been beat enough, so I'm fine with ending my part of the discussion now. Have a good day.


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> Well, it's a hypothetical question


I extoll virtues based on 1st hand experience. Hypotheticals are discussed amongst the "Paper Hat Brigade".


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## Hardsell

If we didn't have hypotheses we wouldn't have research. Which means we would be shooting with black powder shotguns instead of autos. There would be no need to question if there was anything better possible.


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> If we didn't have hypotheses we wouldn't have research. Which means we would be shooting with black powder shotguns instead of autos. There would be no need to question if there was anything better possible.


Except you're drawing hypotheses about a shotgun that exists. Go buy, beg, or borrow one, shoot 1000 rounds through it and tell us about it. No need for guessing when experience is so easily attainable.

Now if you were telling us how to flip the burger and get it wrapped just right in that paper wrapper, I'd have to believe you, having no experience with it myself.


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## Hardsell

First, after having my SBEI for eight years I've put your mythical thousand rounds through it. I'm very confident that the Ultra Light will be on par performance wise with my SBEI. Second, I don't need to beg, borrow, and I definitely don't steal.
On the burger flipping thing, I prefer steak cooked by a professional chef. I'm going to leave now, or I'll have to get my waders, since it's getting deep around here.


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## Horsager

Hardsell said:


> After having my shotgun for eight years I've put your mythical thousand rounds through it.


Good, that's a start, now put 1000 rounds through a few more shotguns of different manufacture and you'll have enough 1st hand knowledge to form a valid opinion. The whole idea of the exercise would be to allow you to gain 1st hand experience so you're able to think for yourself rather than regurgitating the comment from those who have 1st hand experience.

Life is easier when you don't have to wonder.

Steaks are better when I make them myself. Having been to the odd 5 star steakhouse I know that 1st hand too.


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## Hardsell

It would appear that I'm out of my element here.. Since you're the resident expert, why don't you get the Benelli Ultra Light and test it for the benefit of the rest of is?


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## USAlx50

I love feeling that whole "cachunk" recoil feelmg w/ benellis. wish every time I shot it felt like a cachunk in my gun an you could feel the whole cuchunce anction ahead of time.

guns that just cycle the round suck, id rather feel my gun take its time and go cachunk with that sweet inertia action


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## Jiffy

Hardsell said:


> Jiffy,
> 2001. 2nd Squadron, 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment, Fort Carson, Colorado.
> Unfortunately, the United States Army doesn't enlist "Ninjas." They could have offered you a job!


I wouldn't stoop to enlist in the Army. You're going to have to trust me on that one. 8)


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## Hardsell

Jiffy,
They're are many different ways for individuals to serve their country. Some don't.


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## Hardsell

Horsager,
After thinking about what we've been saying this bickering seems to be rather immature on my part. I apologize for responding in such a poor manner. We can agree to disagree and leave it at that. Good luck out there.


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## mnswd

since I started all this - I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for their contribution.

Also, since it was brought up I would like to thank everyone that has served for our nation no matter which branch, past or present- your service is greatly appreciated. It's because of your sacrifice we are even able have this conversation. And as we head to the field this year lets all say a little prayer for those who are unable to join us because of this sacrifice.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

mnswd said:


> Also, since it was brought up I would like to thank everyone that has served for our nation no matter which branch, past or present- your service is greatly appreciated. It's because of your sacrifice we are even able have this conversation. And as we head to the field this year lets all say a little prayer for those who are unable to join us because of this sacrifice.


Amen to that!


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## Hardsell

> I wouldn't stoop to enlist in the Army. You're going to have to trust me on that one.


Jiffy,
I don't presume to know your background, but your words left a bitter taste in my mouth. I could care less about your political views, but to say that you wouldn't "stoop to enlist in the Army" really lets me know what kind of individual you are. Several of my friends aren't coming home. I don't think there is any more nobler cause than to die for ones brother's and country. It is disheartening that our young men and women are defending your way of life, while you would appear to wipe them off of the bottom of your shoe. May you enjoy the freedom that others have paid the ultimate sacrifice for. Infantry leads the way.


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## Horsager

This ought to get ugly right quick!


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## Jiffy

That's ok, I'll take the "high road." 8)

Soooooo, whos going to tell him? I would rather not, paper hat brigade members are a waste of time.

Thanks for your service and my prayers are with your fallen brothers and their families.


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## Hardsell

I would normally except a "Thanks" from anyone who really means it. After what you've said it would appear that's highly unlikely. After your previous statement, I don't believe their is a "high road" for you. Good bye.


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## USAlx50

I'm going to go ahead and guess that jiffy's comments were just ribbing you. Id guess that he is/was a marine navy or AF guy.


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## Horsager

The short answer is that Jiffy was an active duty Marine.


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## HATCHETMAN

You'll be glad you decided on the Beretta!! Fine gun, with nothing to worry about!!

HAVE FUN!!

HM


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## Greezy

Just spend the x-tra money & buy the Super Black Eagle. The bottom line is you have to run at LEAST 3 boxes of heavy 3.5" load to work the die spring & metal slides, so they wear & glide properly. Rarely do you have to send this gun in for repair if it jams; if this is happening, you have not shot enough shells through it, period..... You should always tear it down & clean it, it takes 10 minutes, its fun & simple it's the BEST!!


----------



## Hardsell

Well, 
I guess I'm going to get an SBEII now. I found out that the trigger pull on my SBEI is to long. It would be to complicated to cut the stock and worry about the balance of the gun. I can get the SBEII and just change the butt pad out. 
My younger brother guided down in Texas for a bit. I asked him what they shot. He said they're were mostly Benelli SBEs with a few Remington 870s. I asked him why they shot Benellis. He said that the dust down there caused the gas operated shotguns to jam. The Benellis were able to be shot dirty. If they got cleaned at all it was a quick spray down. The outfit he worked for was one of the number one bird killing services in the state. They're shooting around 7,000 thousand birds a year. Not to shabby.
My friend works at Gander and he shot the Benelli Ultra Light. He said it was incredibly light, but had a decent amount of recoil. He's about 5'8, 160lbs. I guess it would depend on how much recoil effects the shooter.


----------



## Horsager

So after 8 years of owning your SBE and claiming to have shot better than 1000 rounds through it, you just realized that your shotgun's LOP is too long for you?

Curious


----------



## Hardsell

I knew that it wasn't perfect. I've had cut-down shotguns when I was younger. The balance wasn't right with them after they where cut-down. Second, I knew that there wouldn't be any re-sale value after getting it cut-down. i'd talked to a gunsmith and he told me that it could be done, but the results might not exactly be what I wanted. So I just sat on it. I've just been so used to dealing with what I had. I've been able to pull the trigger, so that's all that mattered to me. I've just been satisfied with it's performance up till now that I didn't want to exchange it. A little nostalgia I guess..

My friend from Gander told me how to do a rough field measurement. Nothing has been made for my size. It would appear that shotguns are measured for guys who on average 5'10. My friend told me that with the new SBEII I can get interchangeable butt pads, so it will be an easy fix.

When I was in the Army, I told my squad leader that the stock was way to long on the M249 machine gun I was issued. Know what he told me? "Grow longer arms."


----------



## hagfan72

mnswd said:


> ...Also, since it was brought up I would like to thank everyone that has served for our nation no matter which branch, past or present- your service is greatly appreciated. It's because of your sacrifice we are even able have this conversation. And as we head to the field this year lets all say a little prayer for those who are unable to join us because of this sacrifice.


I for one appreciate the kind words.

Jiffy, how many years were you a devil-dog? I would have joined, but I knew that it wasn't for me, so I opted for the AF instead. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of you jarheads, but I'd rather sleep in a bed as opposed to a fighting hole.


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## SniperPride

Im kinda late on this one... but I love my benelli ultra light.
As far as preference is concerned I'd take a benelli over a beretta.
I do have a tad bit of experience with both too :wink:


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## Hardsell

Sniper,
How is the recoil on that Ultra Light?


----------



## itchy

benelli SBE, remington 1187 is my back up. If you feel recoil when hunting, your not into it enough :lol:


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## SniperPride

Hardsell said:


> Sniper,
> How is the recoil on that Ultra Light?


Its one of the lighter recoil guns that I own, many times felt recoil is dependent on if you have the gun positioned correctly on your shoulder. Ive yet to have a bruise on my shoulder from any gun, and I have put through alot of rounds. Inertia driven does not mean more recoil to your shoulder contrary to popular belief. If the gun fits you correctly and is positioned correctly, recoil wont be as much of a factor.


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## Horsager

SP, what loads you shooting, what other shotguns you own/shoot for comparison, and how much?


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## Jiffy

hagfan72 said:


> Jiffy, how many years were you a devil-dog? I would have joined, but I knew that it wasn't for me, so I opted for the AF instead. Don't get me wrong, I respect the hell out of you jarheads, but I'd rather sleep in a bed as opposed to a fighting hole.


Well you got the fighting hole part right. At least you didn't call it a foxhole. Other than that, once a Marine always a Marine. However, I was active for 4 and in reserve for 4.

By the phucking way, I'm still a DEVILDOG and always will be!!!! There is no "were" in that phrase! You may want to write that one down for future reference. :wink: :beer:


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## SniperPride

Horsager said:


> SP, what loads you shooting, what other shotguns you own/shoot for comparison, and how much?


I shoot everything from the heaviest 3 inch loads to extreme light loads with low velocity. As a Gunsmith and a hunter, I've shot large 10 ga. or light 28 gauge of numerous makes and models. I wont even try to list them all, and it wouldnt matter anyways.
But pretty much what im saying is the recoil on the Ultra Light is not as bad as some people think it is. I have no idea how many rounds I've put through it, but it has been substantial. And if you are really recoil shy then get a different Benelli with the comfortech stock and you will be set. There is a Benelli for every type of hunter  
:sniper:


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## Horsager

I'll re-phrase then. SniperPride, what 12ga shotguns have you fired extensively that DO have substantial recoil? And again, what loads are you shooting through the ultralight?


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## SniperPride

Ive shot the heaviest 3 inch mags through my ultra light as well as sub-sonic. I dont know if I would say substantial recoil when talking about 12gauges, Unless talking about 3 and a 1/2 inch which I shot many out of xtremas and 870s. But since the ultra light only fires 3inch I guess we cant really compare the two can we. So just compare with the SBEII and there ya have it. Like I stated above if you dont like the recoil of the Ultra Light go for a different model like the Cordoba. Problem solved. Dont get me wrong I like Berettas, but in my humble opinion Benellis are the better gun overall.


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## SniperPride

Horsager said:


> Because it actually does break, and Beretta's don't.


Come on now, we both know better than that! :roll:



Horsager said:


> Hardsell, you have ZERO experience with the 6# wonder-gun.





Horsager said:


> While I've no experience with the 6# Benelli I do have plenty of expericence with 6#ish shotguns in 20 and 28 ga


Here's my advice, go get one, shoot a thousand rounds through it, and come back and then give us your re-educated opinion.


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## Horsager

I'd be curious to know what's sitting in your racks for repairs. True repairs for broken parts or true non-function. Guns that need the recoil return springs cleaned, or just a good cleaning, don't count. Modifications of forcing cones, etc don't count either. True repairs.



> Here's my advice, go get one, shoot a thousand rounds through it, and then come back and then give us your re-educated opinion.


Give me an honest compare/contrast with competing shotguns and I may do that very thing. None of my dislike for Benelli's comes from the $$ charged. It stems from the fact that they are not reliable enough (IME you've got about an 80% chance of getting a good one), and they recoil too much vs. competitors.


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## SniperPride

From everything Ive seen from college up to now, a Benelli is no more prone to failure then a Beretta, I have seen more Berettas in for repair then Benellis that is for sure. But it may be because more people own the more fair priced Berettas, who knows.  
If you dislike Benellis then im not going to try to sway you either way 
You cant go wrong with either one a Benelli or a Beretta, I like the Inertia system along with the light weight and quick shouldering of the ultra light. Others like The Berettas gas system along with light recoil. 
To each his own  
:sniper:


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## Horsager

SniperPride said:


> From everything Ive seen from college up to now :sniper:


How long has that been? How many shotguns do you run through your shop annually? I'm seeing a pattern here as you're not answering questions directly.


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## SniperPride

Ok, enough questions already, I feel like Im on trial. I already gave you my input on the gun that you hate so why should I bicker with you. If you dont like the gun, I dont care. Im just giving my view since Im one of the only people in this thread to have shot the ultra light. Im not here to answer your questions which arent even related to this thread. Even if I answered them its just he said she said. I could make up a million numbers and you would still argue just because you hate Benelli. You argued with the other guy and mocked him because he hadnt shot the ultra light. Yet you havent shot it either. Im younger than you and yet nobody would know with how you talk to people in this thread.
Unless you have something helpful and valid to add to a thread dont post it. No more of this Benellis break and Berettas dont nonsense.
Grow up.


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## USAlx50

So a guy I hunted with this weekend was on his 3rd SBE because they keep sending him new ones after they find the originals to be junk. Now the one he has doesn't cycle.. They say he isn't cleaning it right even though he brings it in to gunsmiths to make sure it is cleaned right. Wish I spent 1300 on a gun with that many issues :wink:


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## Horsager

SniperPride said:


> I already gave you my input on the gun.
> No more of this Benellis break and Berettas dont nonsense.


The questions are to obtain clues as to your experience level with both shotguns. I'll say it again. My opinions have been formed over several hundred examples of each, certainly a large enough sample for my opinion to be valid. It's not that I really dislike Benelli's. They fit me well right off the rack and I feel I can shoot them fairly well. I just don't like the fact that they are less dependable and break more often than their competitors. $$$$$ be damned, I need dependability and longevity.


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## waterfowl stocker

i have the original SBE, baught it used 6-7 years ago, prolly 9 years old, never had a problem with it, never broke, been through fall and spring seasons


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## SniperPride

Horsager said:


> My opinions have been formed over several hundred examples of each, certainly a large enough sample for my opinion to be valid.


Your entitled to your opinion no question about that, same with everyone else, but do you think your the only one who has shot alot of shotguns? This is a hunting forum after all, people on here tend to shoot alot of guns  
So some people have problems some dont, just like any other gun. But they are in no way more prone to break than other guns. They break far less than many other guns. If your asking which gun breaks more Benellis or Berettas. As I said before, I have serviced more Berettas. That doesnt mean Berettas break more, not necessarily. Its possible I just have more customers with Berettas.


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## pheasantfanatic

USAlx50 said:


> I love feeling that whole "cachunk" recoil feelmg w/ benellis. wish every time I shot it felt like a cachunk in my gun an you could feel the whole cuchunce anction ahead of time.
> 
> guns that just cycle the round suck, id rather feel my gun take its time and go cachunk with that sweet inertia action


Same here. I love my Benelli M2!!!!  That Inertia system is SWEET!!!


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## pheasantfanatic

Look at Tom Knapp. He shot more than 870,000 rounds through his M1 Super 90 before he retired it and went to the M2.
A gun must be pretty decent if it can take the kind of shooting that Tom Knapp does with it.

I'm not going to get in on the argument here, just stating an observation.


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## ShineRunner

I believe that you will hit your target more often with a single barrel shotgun that fits and has been patterned no matter the brand including S/S, O/U or Auto loader. I have two M1 Benelli's 20 and 12. The 12 is a pre-ban that I bought new and have never had a problem. It has been used in at least 4 different states, in swamps, fields, boats, saltwater and has lost a lot of its finish. The 20 is good also but is a little more particlular on the fodder I put through it. What I am getting around to is that they fit. I just sold a 20 ga. Belgium Browning that didn't fit but was a great gun.

Get a gun that fits or have a gunsmith fit the gun of your choice for you, then pattern the gun for the game you are after and you will be happy with the results.

:beer:


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## ducman77

Hardsell said:


> I think Benelli is coming out with a new shotgun called the Ultra..? Not sure on the name, but it's supposed so be very light. It only shoots up to 3 inch shells, but it would be perfect for pheasant hunting. The Benelli's are going to be very hard to beat, performance, maintanence, and longevitywise.


I just sent my SBE 2 back to benelli. It messed up just like my buddy told me it would.. Don't buy a junkelli. Glad I have the Xtrema ll for backup.. I forgot how good the beretta shot. I will not be shooting the nelli anymore after it gets back from the factory.. 
Performance--B kicks like a mule
Maintanence--A very easy to clean
Longevity--F less than a year and sent back 
Overall Average--C-

Stay with the Beretta... Word from the Wise the Benelli will tear up just wait and see.


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## dukhntr

Horsager, Your nuts. I have a SBE AND an Extrema 2. You can't say one is "better" than the other. They are totally different guns.... :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## speckline

On another web forum, many people are having firing pin and firing pin spring issues with the Berretta..02


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## bowhunter199

Benelli SBE 2 chambers 3.5in shells , ligh fast shootin gun. The berretas are kind of bulky to me but thats personal prefferance.

:sniper:


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## Arkansasman

Buyers Beware: Benelli Super Black Eagle II's Jam!

I just got one for Christmas. Took it out Friday afternoon (nice weather, around 50 degrees F) and shot it 2-3 times just to make sure everything worked. Seemed to be functioning fine.

Went duck hunting with it the first time on Saturday morning. It was cold and clear (about 25 degrees). My first shot was at a passing drake and I missed. I tried for that second shot, but nothing happened. Then I noticed there was a shell hanging out that had not been fully ejected.

This gun is brand new. It came lubricated from the factory. I had it held tightly to my shoulder.

I am not a wealthy person. I had read all the posts about how Benelli's were the most expensive single shot shotguns in the world, but had figured these guys were losers that did not know how to take care of a gun. Well, that's false. This gun is brand new with factory lubrication. I was not shooting reloads; they were high dollar store-bought shells.

It made me sick.

I have been shooting a Belgium made Browning semi-automatic since 1968. It only shoots 2 3/4" shells, so I needed something that would shoot 3 and 3 1/2" shells. I have probably shot an average of five boxes of shells each year for 40 years through that Browning (~5000 shells) and I don't recall it ever jamming on me. Never. Yet my first shot with this $1600 shotgun at a duck resulted in the gun jamming.

If you see this post and still buy a Benelli, then don't blame me.

Arkansas Man


----------



## Guest

Come on guys, I have had my SBEII for two years and wipe it down after I use it and have never had one jam. It could be a simple thing that has given somone a problem and could be fixed with a quick adjustment of sorts. It may need to be fired more to "loosen" things a bit and I also believe that you can get a lemon in any brand you buy. Remington, an Italian make or even a Browning. It all breaks down to does the shotgun fit you. For the most part, you ought to be able to work out the bugs if any.


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## BelgianBoy

I am new to shotguns and I also am looking at the Extrema2 with the kick off option vs the Benelli Cordoba. I was told by the worker at straight shooting in Tampa that the Benelli was way better and never jams and recoil is less than the Beretta with the kick off. I liked what I heard and I liked the way the Benelli felt as it was lighter but now I am afraid to get the Benelli after reading this thread. Does anyone have experience with these two guns I am referring to? I am new to shotguns so exuse my ignorance.


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## snow

AKMAN,

Just a headsup,new shotguns come in "packing grease" from the factory NOT LUBRACATED and ready to shoot,you'll need to break the gun down and clean her up with a lite oil.

Further,read the instruction's,they clearly state to run at least one/two boxes thru it for break in.Also for cold weather the SBE2 is best shot dry or just a slight dabe of lite oil,I use "tri-flow"oil on both sides of the feeder lever axis.I usually blow the excess off with compressed air.

One more thing,is your SBE camo? if so often times you'll get over spray on the inside of the chamber inhibating cycling,check for this as well,it does'nt take much to slow the action and a little rub with emery cloth does the trick.

FYI


----------



## snow

BB,

Don't shy away from either shotgun,both are very fine shotguns,you also live a warm climate,so no worries with cycling.As far as felt recoil,horse apiece,go with the gun that fits and feels the best.Most shotgunners just take the gun from the box and shoot,but if you are serious about the sport (hunting or targets) have your new shotgun fitted for you,makes all the difference in the world.

My .02

:wink:


----------



## trikortreat

Hardsell said:


> I'm intelligent to realize that I'm not going to take a teenager who is new to the sport by loading him up on a 6lb shotgun with magnum loads. The thing is when one is of smaller stature a lighter gun with standards loads will make the experience better. Having to carry a heavy shotgun around all day will be more memorable than how bad the recoil was.
> As to the experience question many of the guys I hunt with have a selection of many different shotguns. So they aren't coming from some far away magazine. I've seen how they perform in the field as well as handled them. The one thing I have noticed is that the majority of guys I hunt with shoot Benellis. Many of them work for outdoor hunting stores. Of all sources they are definitely a great source of feed back.
> The military experience taught me how to properly take care of and operate a weapon in conditions that most people will never experience.
> Considering the Benelli Ultra Light, past experience with the line of shotguns that they have is a good place to start. The Ford F150 has been the Truck of the Year for more years than any other brand. Yet the F150 is a different truck every time the body style and engine change. The fact is that Ford puts out a quality truck no matter which form it takes.


i thought u said u were a heavy gunner...yer a little guy n yer sayin carrying around a 7 in a half lb shotgun would be more memorable then the recoil yer crazy.. i dont believe they would arm a man that is 5'3 115 lbs with saw that runs 17 lbs and not to mention what u said before about having 45 lbs of amo + yer gear. i talked to my uncle about yer coment. hes in irag right now and he said absolutly not. yer almost carryin yer wieght in gear and fire power. aint no way yer gettin anywhere anytime soon carryin all that.


----------



## trikortreat

NVM i take that back hard shell, actually i dont. both of you Hardshell and horseager are rediculous i have never even experienced or read the most stupidest fight one could possibley fight about. do u both realize you were fight between 1 in a half lbs? i cant believe i took the time to actually read through that whole fight that happend 2 years ago....thats all i gota say all a guy wanted was help n u guys started pullin stuff out yer you know whats n started goin at it...its rediculous.


----------



## Hardsell

trikortreat:
There was a misprint there. What it was supposed to read was that the combat load of the SAW and the SAW itself weighed 45lbs together.
The SAW weighs 16lbs. 
I carried (4) - 200 round boxes of ammunition. Boxes weigh approximately 7lbs, so that would be 28lbs. 
The SAW with ammunition weighed approximately 45lbs.
I'm sure your uncle is a great guy. 
I'm curious as to where you served? What military experience do you have? When was the last time you carried the SAW on patrol?


----------



## trikortreat

who said anything about me servin.......are ya gona try n throw somethin at me about that. i read that correctly right...5'3 115? my uncle carried a saw he is 6'2 260 lbs hte gun loaded is 22 lbs + another 28 lbs like you said before...+ another 16lbs is gear we got 66 lbs yer carryin around. my unle said they wouldnt arm a man of yer stature and size because you couldnt get around fast enough. hes not downing you and i aint either. bakc to what i was sayin why hte 1 1/2 lbs?


----------



## Hardsell

trikortreat:
"my unle said they wouldnt arm a man of yer stature and size because you couldnt get around fast enough." 
Well, they did. I asked that them that same question myself. I was infantry. They told me it was because I was the highest ranking non-NCO in my squad and that it had nothing to do with body stature, so that's why I was given it. I was an infantryman, so you do what your told.

"bakc to what i was sayin why hte 1 1/2 lbs?" 
In the Army I didn't have a choice on what I carried. In the civilian world I do. The less weight I can get around with, the better. Secondly, the Benellis have a thinner pistol grip, so it's easier to wrap my hands around, since I have smaller hands.


----------



## trikortreat

i never asked about how big yer hands were n about pistol grips i asked about the weight. are you usin yer benelli for turkey hunting er what? cuz if you are im sure yer not pumpin 2 3/4 inch shells through it...so the 3s and the 3 1/2 are gona add some weight. i want to know what kind of huntin yer doin.


----------



## Hardsell

trikortreat:
The design of the shotgun affects the weight of it. By slimming down specific pieces of a shotgun creates less waste. 
As you know, the SBE's shoot 2 3/4 to 3 1/2 inch shot shells.
I hunt grouse, pheasant, ducks, and geese. I've even shot squirrels.
I usually shoot light loads for pheasant and 3 inch shells for ducks and geese, until I get into late season goose were I shoot 3 1/2 inch shot shells.
The main reason I went to an auto loader was because it was difficult to pump an Remington 870 with shorter arms. Add some heavy duty hunting clothing and it wasn't that fun. Now I just pull the trigger.


----------



## trikortreat

i have never been able to use a pistol grip on geese idk why, it just feels weird. i only use it on turkey sometimes ill use my 835.


----------



## Save Hens

SBE 2- all i would ever own. 0 problems for me


----------



## Hardsell

Startribune March 11, 2009:
"WASHINGTON - An increasing number of soldiers are being sidelined with muscle and bone injuries caused by carrying combat loads weighing as much as 130 pounds, a senior Army official said Wednesday...
Gen. James Amos, assistant commandant of the Marine Corps, who also testified before the subcommittee, said a standard Marine infantryman has about 90 pounds of gear on him."


----------



## VanGogh Bear

Hooooah! March on, little man.

Hey Folks,

I'll be buying a new SX3 this week. The dealer has the waterfowl model and the Ultimate Shadow. My main interest is an all purpose hunting gun, but I shoot about 400 rounds at trap and skeet each month.

I like the look of that Ultimate Shadow. Anyone have any experience with it?

Dozer (An Air Force Guy)


----------



## Hardsell

Thanks Bear.
That SX3 looked like a pretty sweet gun when I looked at it. My first thought was, if I wasn't shooting a SBE II I would have to go with that. It's light and very well balanced. Hope it treats you well.


----------



## VanGogh Bear

Roger, Thanks, Hardsell. Now if only I could get a response from someone who has that grey gun... I've always been a big camo. fan, but since I bought a Kimber Montana, I sure have learned to like the look of that tactical grey color. Looks... bulletproof.

I'll be back Thursday to let you know which way it works out.


----------



## waterfowler5

Hey guys i own a beretta 390 du 12gauge and couldn't be more happy with it... I've had it for 7 years and its been threw alot and has never let me down but i am looking for a 20 gauge now. I love my beretta but i also have shot a friends original SBE1 and it seems to fit me well so what i was wondering is if anyone has or knows of anyone who has an original 20 gauge SBE1 that they are looking to or would be willing to sell? If so please PM


----------



## doublereed

I used to own a 390 Silver Mallard 3" chamber until I just found an Xtrema 2 for the right price. I am completely satisfied with both guns!

The question you want to ask yourself is, "Do I want a gas operated gun (Beretta) or an inertia/mechanically operated gun (Benelli)?" Other than that they are pretty much the same. Both reliable, as they are the same company (Beretta owns Benelli).


----------



## bigpipesT

i have only shoulderd a benelli never shot one or owned one. but i have been lookin at the 390 seems like an awesome gun. right now im usin the mossberg on geese.


----------



## hunt61

By Randy Wakeman

Benelli Super Black Eagles and related shotguns (Super 90, Montefeltro, Franchi "Inertia Driven" I-12, Stoeger 2000) in the United States all hail from the same place as Beretta's, Accoceek Maryland. All are marketed by the same "Beretta USA" organization.

Touted as "inertia actions," they are more correctly short recoil actions. However badly Sir Isaac Newton is misquoted for marketing purposes, the bolt is unlocked and the empty hull is ejected by the rearward thrust against the bolt face. A spring closes the bolt and feeds the next round for you. That's pretty much all there is to it.

It is a bit amusing to watch Beretta tout their Extrema II's great reliability, and attempt to retain the idea that Super Black Eagles are almost as reliable, or more reliable, depending on what piece of ad-rag is being read at the same time. The Franchi I-12 is apparently wonderfully reliable as well, according to the same marketing machine. Credit "Benelli" for amazingly effective marketing.

I've found the Benelli Black Eagles to be surprisingly hard kickers, which is perhaps they are rarely used for sporting clay, trap, or skeet. The Benelli's I've tested have also been plagued by rough triggers, and the 20 gauge M1 Super 90's are too light and whippy to allow me a smooth swing.

Yet, despite the ridiculous over-pricing of Super Black Eagle product (I can't see where they cost that much more to make compared to their own Nova pump) they have achieved a wide following in waterfowl hunting. You might get the impression that I'm not particularly thrilled with $1250 SBE II, much less the need to shoot 3-1/2" shells through them. Well, I'm not.

Today's no-tox loads such as Hevi-Shot and the new Winchester Xtended range loads have mooted the need for 3-1/2 in. chambers in 12 gauge guns in much the same way as the 3-1/2 in. 12 gauge itself killed off the temporary re-appearance of the 10 gauge.

Aesthetically vulgar compared to many other shotguns and horrifically over-priced, I believe that most sportsmen will have a much more enjoyable time with smoother, softer shooting gas autos or a far better crafted used A-5 rather than going the Benelli inertia route.

Much hay has been made of the fast-cycling time of the Benelli action. Speed shooter Patrick Flanigan became the first person in recorded history to throw 11 clay targets into the air and break each one with an individual shot before any hit the ground on July 6, 2005, using a Winchester Super X-2. Flanigan's testing showed that not only was the Winchester Super X-2 the world's fastest cycling shotgun, but even the Browning A-5 handily out-cycled the Benelli. Cycle time is hardly a factor in the field, but fast recovery from recoil for the next bird certainly can be.

By all means, if at all possible, test fire a shotgun before buying; there is little substitute for that. If you really are sold on short recoil actions, you might want to check out the Franchi I-12, 3-in. semi-auto. The Franchi I-12 will do anything an SBE-II will do for you, at half the price. Even the folks at Beretta USA are unlikely to tell you the Franchi I-12 is not an excellent value.


----------



## hunt61

By Randy Wakeman

Benelli Super Black Eagles and related shotguns (Super 90, Montefeltro, Franchi "Inertia Driven" I-12, Stoeger 2000) in the United States all hail from the same place as Beretta's, Accoceek Maryland. All are marketed by the same "Beretta USA" organization.

Touted as "inertia actions," they are more correctly short recoil actions. However badly Sir Isaac Newton is misquoted for marketing purposes, the bolt is unlocked and the empty hull is ejected by the rearward thrust against the bolt face. A spring closes the bolt and feeds the next round for you. That's pretty much all there is to it.

It is a bit amusing to watch Beretta tout their Extrema II's great reliability, and attempt to retain the idea that Super Black Eagles are almost as reliable, or more reliable, depending on what piece of ad-rag is being read at the same time. The Franchi I-12 is apparently wonderfully reliable as well, according to the same marketing machine. Credit "Benelli" for amazingly effective marketing.

I've found the Benelli Black Eagles to be surprisingly hard kickers, which is perhaps they are rarely used for sporting clay, trap, or skeet. The Benelli's I've tested have also been plagued by rough triggers, and the 20 gauge M1 Super 90's are too light and whippy to allow me a smooth swing.

Yet, despite the ridiculous over-pricing of Super Black Eagle product (I can't see where they cost that much more to make compared to their own Nova pump) they have achieved a wide following in waterfowl hunting. You might get the impression that I'm not particularly thrilled with $1250 SBE II, much less the need to shoot 3-1/2" shells through them. Well, I'm not.

Today's no-tox loads such as Hevi-Shot and the new Winchester Xtended range loads have mooted the need for 3-1/2 in. chambers in 12 gauge guns in much the same way as the 3-1/2 in. 12 gauge itself killed off the temporary re-appearance of the 10 gauge.

Aesthetically vulgar compared to many other shotguns and horrifically over-priced, I believe that most sportsmen will have a much more enjoyable time with smoother, softer shooting gas autos or a far better crafted used A-5 rather than going the Benelli inertia route.

Much hay has been made of the fast-cycling time of the Benelli action. Speed shooter Patrick Flanigan became the first person in recorded history to throw 11 clay targets into the air and break each one with an individual shot before any hit the ground on July 6, 2005, using a Winchester Super X-2. Flanigan's testing showed that not only was the Winchester Super X-2 the world's fastest cycling shotgun, but even the Browning A-5 handily out-cycled the Benelli. Cycle time is hardly a factor in the field, but fast recovery from recoil for the next bird certainly can be.

By all means, if at all possible, test fire a shotgun before buying; there is little substitute for that. If you really are sold on short recoil actions, you might want to check out the Franchi I-12, 3-in. semi-auto. The Franchi I-12 will do anything an SBE-II will do for you, at half the price. Even the folks at Beretta USA are unlikely to tell you the Franchi I-12 is not an excellent value.


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## hunt61

By Randy Wakeman

A subjective look at current semi-autos that are worth your consideration.

Browning Gold: The best gas action made today that keeps getting better with running production enhancements made over the last 12 years. The best semi-auto you can buy, with enough configurations to please everyone. (Winchester SX2/SX3)

Beretta 3901: A reintroduced Beretta 390 (now made in the USA), the best of the Beretta semi-autos since the A303 (the A304 is not generally available in this country). This is a great design, easily tuned by the addition of a Rich Cole Spring Kit. It is better thought out than the horrifically over-engineered 391 series that displaced the A390: purportedly to reduce "barrel vibration" that the 390 never had, with the addition of a multiple-piece (seven!) fore end cap.

Remington 1100: So successful in times past, it deserves a mention. O ring problems (due to poor manufacturing and quality control) continue to plague this most popular of the semi-autos. The 1100 has a strong, steel receiver, but a non-compensating gas system.

Benelli Super Black Eagle: Essentially a hard-kicking blowback action with an extra spring, generally poor trigger, and way overpriced for what it is. Though it is a kicker, it may have problems cycling light loads, and is dead last on my list. Those who treat their guns like canoe paddles seem to think that it is really something.

I have great disdain for the SBE, but the theory that "inertia" is an action along with some tortured but effective ad-copy has worked well. The classic Browning long recoil action A-5 actually cycles faster, and is more reliable. But as long as folks believe SBE's are somehow more reliable, they will exist. It rates a mention here because apparently a lot of people see something that has long eluded me. This gun is the "poster boy" for the pump action.


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