# Vexilar or Underwater Camera



## northerngoosehunter

*Vexilar or Underwater camera?*​
Vexilar6085.71%Underwater Camera1014.29%


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## northerngoosehunter

Thinking about taking the hit and purchasing some kind of ice fishing sonar. What do you guys think vexilar or underwhater camera? Is it worth the money for the FL 12 or Fl 18???


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## Hamm

My vote goes for the Vex. I love my FL 8. Camera's are cool too, but I think the Vex is more useful in more situations, overall. Never used the FL 12 or FL 18, so I can't help you there.


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## fox412

vex gets my vote. Cameras are cool but when the water isn't clear or is dark they aren't real useful


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## duckbuster434

I would go 18 or even 20 if i were you. The 6 foot zoom feture is so nice to have for target seperation.


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## averyghg

i have an aqua view, but if i had the money i would definitely rather have a vexilar. Just like everyone is saying, cameras are fun but vexis are more useful


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## njsimonson

Buy a sonar first, then get a camera if you want/need one. Any Marcum or Vexilar is fine, but the more you pay, the more of those nice bells and whistles you get.


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## Norm70

sonar hands down. if you know how to read the sonar and use spring bobbers on a light bite there is no need for a camera except as a novelty item


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## northerngoosehunter

Thanks for the advice thats what I wanted to hear. My question about the Vexilar is I am color blind and cant distinguish between colors like red green yellow red ect.

How hard would this make a Vexilar to read??


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## Norm70

ummmm...that would be hard. you should be able to detect fish fairly easily, and at they come to your bait the lines usually get thicker. You might have a tough time with the bottom structure b/c hard bottoms are red, soft is green. I think if you use it enough though you should be able to read it fairly well.

I am not color blind but i had zero expierence with any type of flasher when i bought my vex. and now with the fl-8 that i have i could tell you everything about the area i am fishing by just putting it in the hole. I can even read the shakes of the bottom as being fish or not.

If there is a good 1 color flasher you might want to look into that, simply for the fact they are usually cheaper

that one color vertical flasher, made by polar vision or aqua view??? i think might be a good choice. i know they are significantly cheaper than the vexi's or marcums


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## drjongy

You can order a special light kit for the Vexilar that makes it suitable for thoses who are color-blind. Go to their website for more info.

Otherwise, get the 18 or the 20.....you NEED the bottom zoom feature.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Sonar - you'll figure out a way to manage your gain to overcome being color blind.

The camera is nice, but I always turn on the Marcum first.


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## carp_killer

we have a fl 18 and a aqua view zt series and with out a doubt the vexilar is the most used and helpfull most of the time the aqua view is just really good at annoying you seeing fish swim around and come up to the bait and not bite BUT i have been in situations that i wouldnt have caught 1/2 the fish i did without the aqua view the sunnys would come in and put the bait in there mouth and you wouldnt feel a thing just see it


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## drjongy

Here's from the Vexilar website. Looks like you can't have the 12 or the 20 and get the conversion:

Blue Light Conversion

Have your FL Series Flasher colors converted to the new unique look of Cool Blue. The bright red color stays the same, but green and orange are replaced with vibrate Blue and Purple. Great for giving a striking change to the way your flasher looks. It's also great for those who are color blind and have never been able to see the colors do what they are meant to do.

How to Get the Blue Light Conversion for Your Unit.

Send us your FL-8* ,FL-8SLT, FL-8 SE or FL-18 and payment of $59.00. Included in this fee is the conversion and a complete unit check-up. We'll look your entire system over to find any potential problems like worn brushes, circuit problems, or a weak transducer. If anything looks to be a problem, we'll contact you to see if you want to take care of the problem now


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## KEN W

I prefer the FL-12 to the 18 or 20.Yes the 18 and 20 come with a zoom but I like the flat screen of the 12 better than the shielded 18 and 20.I can use the 12 in my boat in the summer time by attaching the transducer to my trolling motor.The flat screen can then be seen from pretty much anywhere in the boat,while the shielded 18 or 20 can only be seen from right in front of it.

The FL-12 also has the 50% power reduction mode that will really reduce clutter in shallow water under 20 feet.I basically have it set on that all the time when summer fishing.

Plus the FL-12 costs considerably less.


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## T Shot

Vexilar hands down...


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## carp_killer

KEN W said:


> I prefer the FL-12 to the 18 or 20.Yes the 18 and 20 come with a zoom but I like the flat screen of the 12 better than the shielded 18 and 20.I can use the 12 in my boat in the summer time by attaching the transducer to my trolling motor.The flat screen can then be seen from pretty much anywhere in the boat,while the shielded 18 or 20 can only be seen from right in front of it.
> 
> The FL-12 also has the 50% power reduction mode that will really reduce clutter in shallow water under 20 feet.I basically have it set on that all the time when summer fishing.
> 
> Plus the FL-12 costs considerably less.


the 20 is flat i dont find the shield on the 18 to cause any problems though


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## KEN W

Yes you are right the FL-20 is flat.The 18's I've seen in boats with that hood......you have to sit right in front of it.That's OK ice fishing......but I move atround in the boat or have others with me who couldn't see it.


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## drjongy

Ken, the 20 has a flat screen just like the 12 but with the addition of the zoom. Also has low power mode for 20 feet and under.

I do like the elimination of the sun shield like you said....much better for the boat in the summer.

I just love the zoom feature for the winter....I don't think I would want to go without it.


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## carp_killer

i guess i dont worry to much bout summertime use with it dont need that fancy stuff for bowfishin


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## BROWNDOG

If your going to use it most of the time for ice fishing I would go with the 18 or 20 with the zoom, the target seperation to me makes a big diffenence.

I'm not color blind but that conversion kit sounds kind of neat.


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## goosehunter20

I have the FL-20 and I only use the auto zoom just because it picks up fish and your bait so much better. I also like the fact that you can change the degrees that the trancducer is projecting, it helps alot when you are fishing right next to somebody else and dont want to see their bait


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## northerngoosehunter

well you guys should all work for Vexilar because I just orderd the Vexilar FL 18 in the Genz Pack. Had to order it straight from Vexilar becasue Cabelas was back-orderd.

Thanks for all the great advice I believe these are the most educational and informative response I have gotten from a Nodak post.

Thanks again
Chad Carlson


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## drjongy

So did you get the blue light conversion?


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## northerngoosehunter

No I didnt. I did not feel like paying the extra money upfront for the bluelight upgrade so i figured I will give it this winter and see how it goes. Maybe over the summer I will send it in for the conversion.


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## Backwater Eddy

The Blue Light Conversion is available for these models...

* FL-8*
* FL-8SLT
* FL-8se
* FL-12
* FL-18
* FL-20
*Blue Light Conversion is only compatible with Vexilar FL-8s with serial numbers of 800000 or higher.

How to Get the Blue Light Conversion
for Your Unit.

The conversion fee will be $59.00. Included in this fee is the conversion and a complete unit check-up. We'll look your entire system over to find any potential problems like worn brushes, circuit problems, or a weak transducer. If anything looks to be a problem, we'll contact you to see if you want to take care of the problem now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~

This new service and feature will open the door for many folks whom may not have been able to enjoy and appreciate all the capability's and opportunity's a flasher offers one on the ice and on the water. I can see this being a popular option for folks with and without color viewing limitations as it is an attractive color pallet for the user.


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## Hick-From-Hell

I went for Vexilar but you needed a Marcum option, they have twice the power of a vexilar and are twice as quite. I can blow any Vexilar out of the water with my Marcum. You will be seeing lines all over your screen when my Marcum is on. But overall Sonar is #1.


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## Backwater Eddy

:eyeroll: I have never met a Marcum, I can't ignore. No matter how obnoxious it may be on the ice. More power does not mean more performance in all situations, and more power often works against you on the ice.

But I have seen a lot of Marcums who can't tune out clutter due to too much power and not enough low gain adjustment. By the way...that processor on that Marcum...it can only receive back 400 watts no matter what...even though it is transmitting over 1000 watts...the rest is buckshot in a grain bin...bounces all over with nowhere to go.

I have used them all on the ice and open water too...and the FL-20 duel beam is the state of the art in ice angling electronics. The Lx-1 Marcum is a fine unit for the price, I'll give them that, it balances power and performance well.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Hmmm...never had any problems seeing fish with my LX-5 Marcum?


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## Backwater Eddy

Ya Chris...the 5 and the 3 are great units. Better to have than guess whats below is what I say.

But the more power argument...don't fly with me. I'll agree to disagree with you on that one.

As far as Chevy- vrs-Ford....I drive a Plymouth.


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## Mr. Ping

Backwater. Where did you get this information?

"But I have seen a lot of Marcums who can't tune out clutter due to too much power and not enough low gain adjustment."

My MarCum LX-5's gain when set a zero completly tunes out everthing.

By the way...that 
processor on that Marcum...it can only receive back 400 watts no matter what...even though it is transmitting over 1000 watts...the rest is buckshot in a grain bin...bounces all over with nowhere to go."

I have never came across this claim before. can you back it up?

Here is some information I came across online that does a good job on describing the benifits of power in regards to Sonar and also addresses 
Reciever sensitivity & Gain.

The receiver is way outdated on the Vexilar units as for the most part the internal components on a Vexilar are pretty much 25 year old technology. To my knowledge and testing, the only thing that has changed in Vexilar is the cosmetics and the "digital zoom". more on this later....The low power mode and suppression cable are the band-aids to make the unit work. For the guys that have a vexilar with a low power mode or s-cable, try this.... Set your unit on a table and place a hard object under the transducer on the floor. Turn your unit on and your gain all the way down. Almost everyone of the Vexilars I have used new and old will still give you a signal picking up the object on the floor. Now, if the receiver is properly designed, you should be able to turn the gain down and completely remove the signal. It kind of works like the volume on your tv. I want to be able to turn the volume all the way down to where the tv is 100% mute. On a MarCum, when you turn the gain down to 0, there is nothing being transmitted onto the screen. This is all being done without any low power or s-cable..It is better engineering and technology.

Power is everything. It creates a stronger cleaner signal right from the beginning. The stronger and cleaner the signal you send out, the stronger and cleaner a signal is received. Sonar works like a ball being thrown against a wall. Throw it hard and it bounces right back to where it came from. Throw it soft and it may bounce and roll close to where it came from.
So, if you have a strong signal being sent out, the capability of the interference rejection working better is a lot higher due to a cleaner, truer signal. Target separation is greatly increased and being able to see things in the weeds is very easy. Along with all of this, distortion is kept at a bare minimum giving you a better clearer picture on your dial.

If low power is better, why do all lowrance, raytheon, humminbird, etc....boat units strive for the most power they can get.

Touching back on the zoom....When MarCum uses the zoom, they use an optical zoom. It actuall increases the target separation to less that 3/4 of an inch. On a Vex, they use a digital zoom that just blows up the already 2.65" target separation onto the opposite side of the screen.

here are some tests that were done with some very sophisticated equipment.

MarCum Technologies LX5 VS: Vexilar FL20

Receiver sensitivity : Receiver sensitivity is the measurement of a sonar receiver's ability to detect an input signal. This measurement tells just how small of a return signal the unit is able to pick up and display. The LX5's receiver is more sensitive.
Measurement:
LX5- 24uV
FL20- 40uV

Receiver Gain: Receiver gain is a measurement of the total system gain or amplification. Typically the more gain a receiver has the smaller signal it will be able to detect. The LX5 receiver has more gain.
Measurement:
LX5- 89.77db
FL20- 70.89db

Receiver distortion: Receiver distortion is a measurement of the sonar receiver to filter, amplify, detect, and display a return signal. A receiver with less distortion will give a more accurate display. The LX5 has less distortion.
Measurement:
LX5- less than 1%
FL20- more than 40%

Transmitter power: Transmit power is a measurement of the output power into the transducer. This is usually defined in Watts peak to peak or Watts RMS. In the sonar world more power means a better return signal with less noise and less filtering. The LX5 has more power.
Measurement:
LX5- more than 2000 Wp-p or 300 Wrms
FL20- more than 400 Wp-p or 50Wrms

Conclusions: The LX5 surpasses the FL20 in every sonar measurement that was made. With these measurements it becomes clear that the LX5 is a superior product in respect to its receiver/transmitter design. These measurements were made on off the shelf units using an industry standard tester.

What this means to the ice fisherman is that with the LX5 you will get a clearer, less distorted picture of what's below the transducer. We at MarCum believe that these measurements reflect what LX5 users have been seeing on the ice. The MarCum Technologies LX5 is truly the best and this can be backed up and verified by scientific measurements.

Duane Cummings
Chief Sonar Engineer
MarCum Technologies Inc.


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## Backwater Eddy

Marcum makes a very fine unit. And for many more power means beter performance and fills there individual needs on the ice.

Yet for my needs on open water and on the ice I need the (LP) Low power mode, and the FL 20 does what I need all year around.


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## CNY Tim

True dat Mr. Ping! 
MarCum's gain adjustment is flat out surgical. It gives me the flexibility I need and then some especially for stacked targets and fish near the bottom much more accurately than my FL-8 or 18. I can crank the gain and create the blobs of a Vexilar if I like or dial it down to give me the adjustments I need to get the clearest sight picture. Engineering is the difference and MarCum has the lead..


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## hardwaterfanatic

Backwater Eddy said:


> As far as Chevy- vrs-Ford....I drive a Plymouth.


LMAO Eddy 

As for what to get, I wouldn't even think about a camera unless I already had a flasher. Cameras are nice but a flasher is going to help you out more times than a camera will.

Stained or murky water&#8230;camera isn't going to work there.

Spend money on a good unit as well. Even if you don't think you're going to need the extra features, look at those models anyway and save up a few extra $'s for that model. I bet there are a lot of guys on here that will tell you they wished they would have just bought the better model first, as that's probably what they're fishing with now


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## rjhookset

I have both and would say go with the sonar. For what its worth i switched to the lx-5 and so far it was worth the switch.


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## cast&amp;blast

Congrats on the Vex purchase - I am sure you will love it, provided the colors don't give you any problems. If for some reason you have problems, consider the Lowrance X67c. There are a couple ways this unit might help solve any color issues for you. There is a "graph" mode which would give you a clear picture of what was happening under you without having to worry about color. There is also a mode that displays the flasher in different shades of greens and black. There is also a grayscale and reverse grayscale mode that take the color out of the equation all together. Something to consider if you have any trouble reading the Vex - but I'm betting you won't.
You made the right choice getting a flasher first - but don't wait TOO long to get a camera. Besides being great fun - there are days when they will help you catch fish as much (or more) than the vex. But it is more frequently the other way around. Good Luck.


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## deerslayer80

Best thing about a sonar is that you can locate the suspended fish. The camera is a fixed area only and you tend to miss out on a lot. It's fun to have both though. I would get the sonar first with out any question.


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## iceman09

Definately get the fl18 it's easy to use and it really helps find fish
An underwater camera isnt as good but it helps see how big and what kind of fish are really down there and how they react to your bait. The fl18 has auto zoom which is really convenient in crappie and walleye fishing.

hope this helps you make the right decision!!


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