# Bow tuning question



## phil999

I was paper tuning my bow on the weekend and a question / thought occured to me (probably because I was not shooting straight through the paper).

If you shoot through a piece of paper from approx. 3 ft away, would you not expect "archer's paradox", if that is the correct term. ie. your arrow flexing after it has left the string, and therefore not going exactly straight through the paper ??

I was tearing the paper to the right, so I presume I have to adjust my rest a little sideways .... BTW - I use a split limb compound (set at 62 lb), 28 inch graphite arrows with 85 grain tips.

Thanks,
Phil.


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## Guest

You have the problem fixed yet??


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## phil999

Nope,
Decided to focus on the fish instead. My bow seems to shoot straight enough, but am sure it is not adjusted to its potential (Am also having a one-man strike against the local archery store and their tuning department). Have not been able to find any info on this type of bow listed as well. Its a Hyperion from Cresent Archery. Has anyone played around with one of these - I have only had it for 2 seasons now.
Phil.


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## fishandhuntNE

Just out of curiousity, are you using a release, or your fingers to shoot. Sometimes the fingers will throw a little bit of wobble to the arrow (but I'm not sure if its enough to show up at 3 ft). If you are using a release, then your guess is as good mine. Maybe even out your limb-savers across the bow to help with vibration.

Good luck


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## phil999

I use a release. I went ahead and put limb savers around the time I was doing all this. The bow was super quiet when I first got it and has progressively got louder over time. I only had cat's whiskers (if that is what you call them) to start with, so I checked that everything was good and tight, lubed the string and added the savers. The seemed to quiet it down some, but would like to get it back to its original noice-free capabilities. I probably need to tinker with the limb savers placement and maybe lube the cams. Thankfully, it is getting warm enough to play around in the backyard again !!


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## Plainsman

Phill999

At three feet from the paper I don't think your arrow has had time to recover from the flex that occurs as it clears the shelf. I tune at six feet. No feathers on the arrow. If the tear is up I move the nock down. If the tear is down I move the nock up. If the tear is left on a right handed bow I move the rest or plunger right, and left if the tear is right. I do think the problem is you're a little to close. Also check the recommended tiller on your bow. Limbs out of sinc can cause real problems including noise. If the limbs are well matched you may get by if you simply screw the limbs down to max weight then back out to desired weight. Hope this helps.


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## Bobm

Really makes me appreciate my longbow :lol:


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## phil999

Plainsman - 
Thanks for the input. That makes sense. I will tinker with it some more now the weather is better.

Bobm - Give me a couple of years and I may progress to a longbow !!

Phil.


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## Bobm

Phil I reccommend you read a book By G.Fred Asbell called "instinctive shooting" if its still in print. Asbell used to be an editor of Bowhunter magazine I think. Once you learn how to shoot instinctively, and believe me its simple, your kill rate will go up and you will enjoy shooting more. I probably have taken over 100 deer with a recurve or a longbow and maybe 20 with a compound I just find the recurves much simpler to shoot accurately instinctively. Sight pins are great if you know the exact range they work against you if you don't, and they are just one more complication that can foul up. I also think that sightpins encourage shooting at excessive range. All but 2 of the deer I've shot have been inside of 20 yards one at about 30 and one at about 45, the 45 yards shot with one of the fastest 70lb recurves made and the deer turned acompletely around and was hit in the opposite side. I always keep my shots close now. I have got all my buddies shooting recurves now and they are enjoying the simplicity of it. You really out to try it.


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## Bobm

Phil, One more thing if you get into instinctive traditional bows and your a deer hunter buy about 50 lb recurve it will drive an arrow thru a deer at 25 yards like a hot knife thru butter and is easy to pull and shoot. IF you get too heavy a bow it will be hard to learn the technique. Mines 70lbs but I've been shooting for 40 years on almost a daily basis and I've been thinking that last couple of years about going to a lighter bow but so far I've not needed to.


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## phil999

Bobm,
Thanks for the info. I will try and get hold of that book. Some of my buddies changed from a compound back to a recurve. Am sure one day I will do the same, but still need to master what I have paid for !!
Phil.


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## Bobm

Phil just take the plunge and trade it in for a recurve you will like it so much you will never look back, no more worring about some thingamabob being adjusted correctly and no more training wheels :lol: , just blissful simplicity, and if you are a hunter and not a target archer you will be more effective to boot :beer: I guarantee it.


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## Goldy's Pal

I'll admit the long bow is much more simple and nothing is wrong with that concept. I shoot a Matthews solo cam and have for the past ten years now. I can pick up that bow year after year without a single adjustment and put a half dozen arrows in a spot the size of a fifty cent piece at 20 yards. If you can do that with a long bow you should be selling yourself on ESPN outdoors. If I were a deer I'd want that Matthews drilling an arrow through my vitals and making it count. Just my opinion on the hunting aspect between the two methods of archery. If you are constantly fighting your equiptment, then that's another story. Any archery shop with an indoor range should be able to set you up without problems.


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## phil999

Bobm,
I started out with an old bear bow (compound) that had no sights, or anything else for that matter. I used it for a year until I decided that I liked what I was doing, then bought a new compound. The first bow is not a recurve, but about as close as I could find to shoot off hand without going to the store !! (Cheap hunter will probably like that).
Phil.


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## phil999

Just for bragging rights, you can split arrows with both .....


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## Goldy's Pal

I don't like to brag. If I did I would have mentioned consistant nickel sized groupings. 8) Or shooting the eyes out of Turkey targets.  With compounds and most anything else, you get what you pay for, and deal with the results.

To each their own. :beer:


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## Bobm

Goldy you liar you do love to brag :lol: :lol: I do too! I can hit a fifty cent piece at 20 yards without any problem. I can also draw and shoot running game from deer to rabbits to flying pheasants try that with your sight pins...... . I killed my first buck over 30 years ago in midair jumping over a fence with a witness, and I never let him hear the end of it :lol: . I will say this in all seriousness if you learn to shoot instinctively you will be a more effective deer hunter because no concious consideration of range calculation is needed. Its the same thing as throwing a football to someone once you learn how you can can hit your 12 year old streaking across your front yard right in the chest without even thinking about it. Its a great technique I have killed a lot of flying pheasants, in Milwaukee county Wi in the 60's they didn't allow firearms hunting but bows were legal, pheasants were so plentiful you could shoot both roosters and hens. I guess this story gives you a litle hint on how long I've been shooting instinctively but I gave the compound thing a try and it just seemed boring and I missed a couple bucks because I picked the wrong pin so I went back to my roots....  Compounds and sights did do one real good thing for archery though they gave people enough confidence to try the sport and that gave it a lot more political clout which is great :beer:


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## Goldy's Pal

Bobm said:


> Goldy you liar you do love to brag :lol: :lol: I do too! :beer:


OK, but not often. You forgot about one thing, I can still shoot instinctively without looking through the peep sight and using the pins. I've done it and drilled a decent whitetail through the lungs. There I go bragging again.  (I use 1 pin by the way) eliminates the problem of using the wrong one. I've gone down that road of shooting instinctive, and no way could I ever be as accurate on a consistant level like I am with the bow I use today. Maybe I'd come close with HUGE time commitment to practice but even then, I doubt it. I knew you'd have to use the word political sometime soon. :rollin:


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## Bobm

Goldys says


> I knew you'd have to use the word political sometime soon


Sorry about that I guess its just subconscious!!  Hey, you're mistaken about the amount of practice it takes to get really good at instinctive shooting. You ought to get the book I reccomended above, once you learn the technique you can pick up your bow after months of not shooting and shoot perfectly. The two reasons I shoot regulary is to keep my strength up and because I like to shoot. I have laid off shooting because of tennis elbow for as long as six months with no ill effect to my accuracy. I frequently have lay offs during the year without any problems. What you guys don't see is that shooting with a pin is without a doubt more accurate at a known distance for many shots, but instinctive shooting is consistantly more accurate for one shot, which one do you do bow hunting? Let me ask you to consider something else how many of you know a friend (or maybe had this happen to yourself ) that can shoot arrow after arrow into a bullseye on the target range and then miss a deer or elk at 20 yards, that defies logic, and happens because in the heat of the moment they shoot instinctively without haveing practiced the technique. Once you learn the proper way to shoot instinctively that will never happen to you. I've done a lot of both and am convinced for hunting you will hit your mark more often shooting instinctively. :lol:


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## phil999

Should I will let you two take it from here !?!


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## Goldy's Pal

Don't argue with me Bob, you can't win.  How many animals does an instinctive shooter need to loose before they are finally a great shot at using this method??? Inexperience causes problems no matter what you use for equiptment. Know your limits and most all of these mistakes don't happen with compounds. I am doing Whitetails a huge favor by shooting what I do, I can assure you of that. That's what I care about. 8) You take your one shot, which when bowhunting, is all you'll ever get anyway, and I'll take mine, both will be in the vitals, but mine will be through the heart. :lol: Pin point accuracy with a long bow represents the minority of this style, while sight shooters with this consistant accuracy are a dime a dozen. :wink:


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## Bobm

maybe I can't win, but that never stopped me before :lol: . Instinctive shooters that can kill consistantly are a dime a dozen too. Thats my point its real easy to learn. IF you understand the technique its simple and once you learn it its becomes subconcious which is why its a better method for hunting becasue you don't have to think about it when Mr. Big walks out and your hearts turning 3000 rpm :lol: Get the book Instinctive Shooting and read it you tightwad, if after you read it you don't think it was worth the money I'll buy it from you.


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## Goldy's Pal

Tightwad??? :rollin: I've shot instinctive for years, why would I need a book to learn what I already know?? If MR. BIG is around I'll take him down. 1 pin Bobby boy, that's the ticket.  0 to 25 yards on a flat line is automatic. I pace off all of my lanes and shoot at targets in these lanes in the off season. Why change this????? You've got your style, Ive got mine. Both can work, but my way is better. :beer:


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## Ryan_Todd

guys this is going to be a neverending argument. personally i feel the same way as goldy. i shoot a compound with sights and everything else. my goal is to get the most consistant, accurate shots. my bow is set at 82 pounds and goes clean through a shoulderblade at 48 yards. i know this because i did it last year. it all depends on what you like to shoot and your own beliefs.

my :2cents:


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## Goldy's Pal

I do have respect for the long bow and for guys (even you Bob 8) ) who can master the skill and who have put in the time. I tried instinctive shooting but it is just not my cup of tea. I would like to some day get a long bow and just play with it when I have the time. Someday, just not now. For hunting, I'll forever stick with what puts meat on the table and an occassional rack on the wall. :wink:


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## Bobm

Buy the book and read it. I too thought I knew the tecknique until I read that book. It really helped me and I had been shooting instictively since I was 10 ( about 20 years at the time I read the book) . I have been the best shot in my life since I read that book, thats how good it is. And if you go instinctive go to a recurve first they are easier to shoot. Although once you get good with the recurve it wont make any differece what you shoot you will just be deady all the time, no kidding. I don't doubt you can hit deer but an old guy like you needs needs to expand his horizons once in a while  
Ryan, Goldy and I aren't arguing were are just playing around, it just sounds like were arguing because Goldy isn't real smart :lol: :lol: but give me a little time I'll get him straightened out.
Goldy what general part of Mn do you reside in do you hunt big woods up north or farm bucks? I always wanted to combine a grouse hunt with a bow hunt in Mn thats what I do in Wisconsin. Grouse hunt in the mornings first week of November and every scrape line I find I bow hunt a day or two later in the afternoon very effective scouting technique. A NR can just buy a bow license over the counter in Mn still can't they??


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## Goldy's Pal

Can't tell ya' Bob. :lol: I'd have to say I spend my time wisely while we pick out a christmas tree also. Farm bucks are fun to pattern. Minn. dnr. has the full scoop on the license details. Oh and I am bright, my light just flickers sometimes. 8)

:beer:


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