# Unplugged Guns?



## Flick (Aug 21, 2002)

Apparently it's legal to use unplugged guns in MN this year. It's considered a special season to control goose populations so it's Federally legal. Guys have been calling CO's around the state and they say it's true.

After looking at ND's regs for early season, they say nothing about having to only have 3 shells in your gun or a plug for that matter. Only regs on shooting hours and limits.

So my question is, is it legal to use unplugged guns for the ND early season? I'm thinking it might be.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I just found that out too, well I wouldn't need more then three shots anyways


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## WingedShooter7 (Oct 28, 2005)

Do you in south dakota? I usually wouldn't ever need more than 3 but never hurts to have them


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

No it is not, the reason is that ND restricts guns to 3 shells for all bird hunting with a shotgun. If you look, the early season rules are published with the small game rules. In those rules it clearly states what is legal in regards to shotgun capacity.

If it was available ND chose not to exercise this option! Which I fully agree with!


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## Flick (Aug 21, 2002)

Ok

Why not unplug them? It will result in more birds being killed, which is the goal of the early season right? The limit is still only 5, some people will just get there faster, or get closer to it.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Honestly, how many geese are killed with the third shell, let alone the fourth, fifth, sixth????


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## shooteminthelips (Jun 13, 2007)

That is what I was think thinking bareback!


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## justund223 (Aug 28, 2006)

i stopped putting in 5 shells for spring snows because it seemed like they always moved out quicker then i can shoot and i ended wasting the last 2, however for canadas it might not hurt just to have them in case you call the flock back in or you have cripples.


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## whitehorse (Jan 28, 2008)

haha, i see no disadvantage of having extra shells in the guns.... not at all..

perhaps a cripple, or the comback call worked before you got more shells in.. scenarios are endless... I am just glad i'll be lucky enough to have the plug out... if I need the extra shells i'll have em... if i don't need them, I just won't shoot.. don't get what the big deal is, I garantee if you could take your plugs out, you would...


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## goosehunternd (Mar 10, 2006)

What good is the 4th shell if there are no birds to shoot at?

This is the first time I am actually jealous of MN 8)


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## whitehorse (Jan 28, 2008)

goosehunternd said:


> What good is the 4th shell if there are no birds to shoot at?
> 
> This is the first time I am actually jealous of MN 8)


hahaha, i'm glad you could say it, I fig. that it was a little bit of that goin around....

and i can say "this is the first time i'm happy (er) about hunting minnesota!"


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## Flick (Aug 21, 2002)

barebackjack said:


> Honestly, how many geese are killed with the third shell, let alone the fourth, fifth, sixth????


Maybe you dont hunt with good shooters. I know if the guys I hunt with had more than three shells we'd shoot more birds guaranteed. I was floating one the other day and quadrupled, if I'd of had more shells I would've killed even more.


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## averyghg (Oct 16, 2006)

barebackjack said:


> Honestly, how many geese are killed with the third shell, let alone the fourth, fifth, sixth????


depends on how good you can get birds to decoy and how good of shots you are


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Flick said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, how many geese are killed with the third shell, let alone the fourth, fifth, sixth????
> ...


Ummm, isnt that against the law??? :eyeroll:

And besides, whats the fun limiting out in one flock?


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

barebackjack said:


> Flick said:
> 
> 
> > barebackjack said:
> ...


Ego! :rollin:


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

I think you hit that ole nail right on the head Ron. :beer:


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## pointblankshot (Nov 2, 2005)

Bareback pm sent


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## Flick (Aug 21, 2002)

I've also heard Ron tell stories of himself consistently shooting 15lb honkers, call that what you want........


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Yeah they use to be a lot more common, now most run in the 10-12 lb range. However the topic at hand is unplugged guns and if I am not mistaken the next direction this thread takes will be on hunting legally!


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## NDMax (Jul 23, 2008)

justund223 said:


> i stopped putting in 5 shells for spring snows because it seemed like they always moved out quicker then i can shoot and i ended wasting the last 2,


Sounds like you need an 11-87 or SBE ! 

I never seem to have a problem emptying my autos.......

NDMax


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## water_swater (Sep 19, 2006)

I don't think every day there is a need, but I know everybody that shoots an auto, could have used an 4th or 5th shell somedays. When honker hunting is going right and your landing birds, a 4th shell makes a huge difference!


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

I know having a 4th or 5th shell would definately be helpful on some occasions for me.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

NDMax said:


> justund223 said:
> 
> 
> > i stopped putting in 5 shells for spring snows because it seemed like they always moved out quicker then i can shoot and i ended wasting the last 2,
> ...


His sx2 works fine :wink:


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## possumfoot (Nov 7, 2006)

i think ND should go unplugged and raise the limit for early honkers..
2 of us visited the 15 -20 and the limmit could have been 15 birds per and we still would have killed out.. no plug and we would have been dropping 10+ at a time.. we were sitting them down in the dekes at 5-7 yards.. killed all of a group of 8 w/ plugs in.. droped 6 on several differant occasions..

before i get any $#!%, alk your self this. Is the early goose for sport or population control?


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## goosehunternd (Mar 10, 2006)

Where you landing them and then mowing them down?


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## powerhnter888 (Sep 8, 2006)

Having that extra shot or two to put the hammer down on a decent size flock of fifteen or so could get you out the field quicker hence eduacating less birds. Say you do shoot a limit out of one flock not to many birds getting smart after that


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

barebackjack said:


> I think you hit that ole nail right on the head Ron. :beer:


And my point just keeps getting made over and over!!!!!!! :rollin: :beer:


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Ron Gilmore said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > I think you hit that ole nail right on the head Ron. :beer:
> ...


How so?


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## CuttinDaisies (Nov 15, 2007)

Ron Gilmore said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > Flick said:
> ...


Nope... its to keep from Field Busting... this is when you guys sit in the field after shooting a limit just to take pictures!!!!! Or they choose not to shoot birds in order to make the day "last longer". When they know darn well that the field could be hunted for a couple days after if they would just leave.

Field Busting should be made illegal, it puts way to much added pressure on the birds, making them search longer and harder for a new field to feed in and expending energy that doesn't need to be used.

Shooting birds for ego? I don't think so. Field Busting is just bad ethics.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

And we have another winner!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, once again, the biggest and most practical reason for our plug law in ND is enforcement and uniformity. The reason it made sense before are the same today. Many guys go waterfowl hunting and take advantage of upland opportunities in the same day. Heck I have even taken grouse and pheasants that have flown through my decoy spread.

Same thing in reverse, there are a lot of people that take advantage of waterfowl opportunities presented when upland hunting. Changing shells is enough of a hassle without trying to plug or unplug a shotgun.

Now back to the early season. ND took advantage this year of an extended season with the Aug opener. While I was not in favor of it, I understood it. The goal was increased and sustained pressure along with longer periods to harvest geese. Part of the goal is to get them to move sooner. Thus making it less likely the local birds will come back to nest in this area the following year. There is data out there that indicates this does have a measurable affect.

We have a 5 bird limit a day with 15 in possession, compare that to the snow goose conservation season! No limits and no possession limits.

So what we have seen on this thread so far is people wanting the 5 shells or more so they could brag about killing all 5 in one pass. Then we have guys who thinks it should be illegal to field bust and claims that five shells would cut down on that! We have had others admit to breaking the laws in hunting this fall as well!

And some of you do not understand my simple one word comment !!!!!!

EGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rollin:

Boys and girls I understand that mentality, when I was young on opening morning of duck season one year I crawled up to a gaddy hole just before daylight. Limits back then where 5 birds of which 4 could be mallards and one of them a hen. No cans or red heads allowed so we did have to know what we where shooting.

Anyway it had rained hard the day before flooding new areas of small wetland. The ducks mainly gadwall found it in the mid afternoon and stayed on it all night feeding. I waited until legal shooting time stood up and took 5 legal birds with one shot! Quickest limit and least amount of shells I have ever used! Now this spot was not a roost, wetland was dry in three days but it was the most unsatisfying opening morning of my life.

Most hunters do not have the skills to shoot birds at the range that the 4th and 5th shell would be used. Most of those shots are going to be in the area behind the wings if they hit the bird. This causes crippling but in reality these are fly away to die birds. That is the truth of the matter. I know some are going to say we get them in close and our 5th shots are still under 30 yards. Well you are the exceptions not the rule and regulations need to be open and general enough to cover the extremely skilled and the novice.

I can go on and on but like I said the biggest reason and most practical reason is enforcement and all the opinions and reasons listed above in support are more about ego than anything.

You want a fourth shot for a followup on a wounded bird, learn to do what I have done. Hold a shell in your trigger hand for quick reloading if needed for that situation. Over the years I have used it on occasion but normally I am not in need of it! I stay legal!

There it is boys and girls rip away if you like, but none of the reasons listed show me anything other than ego with the exception of someone wanting to use a fourth or 5th for crippled birds. But even that fails to some extent because if they do not stop at three shots and reserve the 4-5th loads only for cripples when needed then you could claim that 6 or 7 shells would be needed for cripples!


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## CuttinDaisies (Nov 15, 2007)

haha look at how long of a post I made Ron write when I started making up things like field busting. You must be one of those who like to stay out there just to make the day last longer.

I don't get your upland hunting/changing shells arguement. Why would someone change shells? From steel to lead? isn't it ilegal to have any lead on you if you attempt to harvest waterfowl? And what does that have to do with enforncement?

And Ron... isn't the reason the Fed's made a three shot magazine mandatory to reduce harvest (and don't the feds want an increased harvest for the early goose season?)? I think so.... And the whole arguement for "the birds will be out of range for the 4th and 5th shells" is total BS. Sometimes, yes, sometimes they are out of range for the first shell, its still up to the shooter to decide.

And by the way, I have never jumped a pothole at daylight in hopes of shooting a limit with one shell. Nothing I have ever done in my life has been motivated by ego, you on the other hand have admitted to it. So please stop preaching.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

I have spent over 30+ years hunting waterfowl. During that time I have hunted with people that where crack shots and crap shots. I have hunted with people who grew up in an era where waterfowl where subsistence supplement. They at the time did not care about limits or sex of species etc.. For them it was all about getting the most birds for the least amount of shells required.

Later on when they no longer had to hunt for meat on the table, the majority of them shared a wisdom with myself and others they hunted with. That wisdom was leave your ego at the door in regards to prowess and skill. The reason being is that there has been someone better and will be someone better than you in the future. Instead take in the beauty of the birds, work on the skills of concealment and calling to get them as close as possible and knowing your limitations on shooting skills.

Those guys would shoot birds and could shoot birds at ranges consistently that most only once or twice get lucky and knock down a bird. One guy walked on crutches and still hunted until the last year he died. He would go out and lay next to a slough and shoot birds passing overhead but only when they would land where he could pick them up. Most of the birds where taken at ranges well in excess of 40 yards.

Some days he would not shoot at all because the conditions where not right. He would tell of other hunters sitting over decoys who launched three round volleys at every single bird that passed by their spread. Many of which where *** shot and would fly away and die. Over the years I have seen this including birds hanging feet down over decoys at under 20 yards. From a pure ethics point of view, adding more rounds will result in more dead birds, but not retrieved birds. I myself still make this mistake as excitement does get to me like anyone else. But over the course of time, I find myself with a shell still in my gun when after a flock of birds comes into the decoys.

Last fall we had flocks of 20+ birds come into the decoys with just two of us. We took two birds each out of the first two flocks. Called some of the juvie birds back to the spread and finished off our daily limit. End result was a day where we exposed no more than 50 birds to the work end of a shotgun. Having extra shells to shoot would not have changed that, nor sped up our filling out.

Guys that want to shoot five birds or make the claim of if I had more shells we could have shot X amount of birds out of that flock do so only to brag or stroke and ego.

Remember you are hunting the young of the year birds who are dumb. Case in point is being able to call back a group that has been just shot at!

If they want more birds harvested they will increase daily bag limits or as they did this year increase days afield. Some states have daily limits of 7 others I have read 15 and started the season on Aug 1st! I am not worried about educating these birds anymore than I am worried about educating ducks when groups of 100 come into the decoys. If you want to use that argument on educating birds as a reason then you should only be shooting at flocks of birds that have only the amount in them that you can kill. That means most times 3 or less!!!!!

The want for more shell capacity is not driven by anything other than ego! Nor can one say skill is being tested on early geese either. They are dumb birds just learning to fly!! You want to brag about skill levels, go down into areas where hunting pressure is extreme and land them late in the season!!!!!!! That is skill, not landing juvie birds in Aug and early Sept.

It is clear to me that you do not understand that bag limits have a small affect on overall harvest. It is days afield be it duck or goose. So I guess the G&F did what has been the proven method of increasing harvest they increased the days afield opportunity.

In regards to being one that sits and lets more birds land, I have on occasion done this, but most times I pull up and out when we limit. The days I have sat in the field or marsh was usually with a new or beginning hunter. Using the time as an opportunity to teach. Pointing out body shape, wing speed, and on non fully colored birds ways to identify the target before shooting. I have found these times to be great for teaching because there is no pressure to make a shot and if you get busted so what!


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

I can't find this claim anywhere in the regs?Further more the 3 shell rule is federal,not sure if the state can override federal regulation?

Anyone have this in print? (For Mn)


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## NDMax (Jul 23, 2008)

CuttinDaisies said:


> And Ron... isn't the reason the Fed's made a three shot magazine mandatory to reduce harvest (and don't the feds want an increased harvest for the early goose season?)? I think so....


The -3- shot limit came about when the large changeover from doubles to pumps came to be. The doubles guys were upset with others having the larger magazines, and compromised on the -3- shot limit.

NDMax


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

Just to clarify some things so hopefully to aviod any one getting a ticket.

The above post about the unplugged law is for MN only and until Sept 15th. After that you must have the plug in.

Reason it should be only used for MN is because it was an administrative oversight by their DNR. Next fall they said it will be 3 shells again.

As to what other states have done, I do not know. The Feds made a change that said no plugs are allowed until Sept 15th for Resident Canada geese ONLY. (Mourning doves, ducks, etc you still need a plug.)

So the best advice I can give is call your state's enforcement divison to make sure the unplugged gun is legal in the state where you live or plan to hunt in.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

USAlx50 said:


> I know having a 4th or 5th shell would definately be helpful on some occasions for me.


Ya, like when I forget to reload my gun for the next flock........... :eyeroll:

I have no problem with people using unplugged shotguns, mainly for this reason. Most know there own limits and dont take shots after that range. If there are birds still in the kill hole after three shots, well then he can tak another shot or two.

Today, I actually pulled off a triple on 3 that came in for the first time ever, when the third one went down, he was no further than 15 yards when he felt steel


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

> The limit is still only 5, some people will just get there faster


But what's the fun in that. I go out to enjoy a day afield not a 1/2 hr.
I use and O/U and get as many birds as the next guy.


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