# FARGO- Flood crest predictions for Fargo have jumped



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Not good news

Forecasters predict one of three-highest recorded Red River floods in Fargo

FARGO- Flood crest predictions for Fargo have jumped 3 feet, with the National Weather Service now predicting a 50 percent chance of the Red River hitting 38 feet by mid-April. 
By: Helmut Schmidt, INFORUM

FARGO- Flood crest predictions for Fargo have jumped 3 feet, with the National Weather Service now predicting a 50 percent chance of the Red River hitting 38 feet by mid-April.

City Engineer Mark Bittner said a 38-foot flood stage through the city would be the third-highest recorded.

Emergency management officials from Fargo and Cass County met this morning at Fargo City Hall to discuss the new flood predictions and to go over the status of flood preparations from sandbags and pumps to tetanus shots and emergency command centers.

The flood outlook includes a 10 percent chance of a flood of 40 feet or more, which Bittner said would be a challenge to fight.

"This is not the March Madness I anticipated," Fargo Mayor Dennis Walaker said.

"What we've seen today here, it's changed dramatically," Walaker said of the flood prediction. "Is it time to be concerned, I think it is. &#8230; We've got issues."

Major flood stage in Fargo starts at 30 feet.

The highest recorded flood in Fargo was 39.5 feet in 1997, officials said.

Several officials said an area of concern will be in the rural areas south and southwest of Fargo, as waters from the Sheyenne and Wild Rice rivers may well break their banks and advance overland toward Fargo and the Red River.

"That hits us where we're most vulnerable," Bittner told the group.


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## jonesy12 (Apr 1, 2008)

Not good news at all


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## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

On the City if Fargo website they have a link to a flood map that you can see approximately what parts of the city will have water problems at river levels up to 39 feet. Might be worth some checking out.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Bob Kellam said:


> "This is not the March Madness I anticipated," Fargo Mayor Dennis Walaker said.


Wow, talk about your soundbite of the day. 

If it floods by easter he can be like,

"I was expecting the easter bunny to bring eggs and candy, not water." :roll:


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

When are people going to realize that the more dikes they build the higher the river gets. Yeah lets keep restricting it and flooding more and more people every year! :eyeroll:


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Or possibly stp draining all the wetlands in the red river valley and maybe they can do what they do naturally, hold water in times of excess moisture!!!! :eyeroll:


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

It's a problem I think we've created into a much bigger problem. No matter what we do the same amount of water needs to be disperse somewhere and I think people are forgetting that.


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## hammer007911 (Feb 4, 2009)

I remember going up and helping McFarland heating and AC rebuild after the flood.

Wonder if they will want to limit out of staters help this time, kinda like licenses.

Hammer


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

hammer007911 said:


> I remember going up and helping McFarland heating and AC rebuild after the flood.
> 
> Wonder if they will want to limit out of staters help this time, kinda like licenses.
> 
> Hammer


I wonder if all of the unemployed non residents would appreciate the work or if they'd come with the "take what we can, we're only here for a little while" attitude that has unfortunately lumped a lot of good people into a bad stereotype.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

USAlx50 said:


> hammer007911 said:
> 
> 
> > I remember going up and helping McFarland heating and AC rebuild after the flood.
> ...


x2!!!!!!!!!!! :withstupid:


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

USA1 you mean the 5.1% unemployed. Ask Sykes in minot about their closing due to no applicants.


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## Gildog (Jan 30, 2007)

USAlx50 said:


> hammer007911 said:
> 
> 
> > I remember going up and helping McFarland heating and AC rebuild after the flood.
> ...


I don't understand why the hate starts so quickly...unless the 'brain drain' theory is true and many of the best and brightest have left the great outdoor lifestyle in ND for more lucrative employment...


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## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

Call me dumb but I'm missing your point. If I go over to Moorhead to help with a flood I should be guaranteed a hunting license in MN. as Hammer infers.?????


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

hammers previous posts reflects his intentions with this..

We need a tool emoticon.. :wink:


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## cgreeny (Apr 21, 2004)

:idiot: :idiot: :idiot: :idiot: :idiot:

we already have it....


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## hammer007911 (Feb 4, 2009)

cgreeny said:


> :idiot: :idiot: :idiot: :idiot: :idiot:
> 
> we already have it....


I love it!

Hammer


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

swift said:


> USA1 you mean the 5.1% unemployed. Ask Sykes in minot about their closing due to no applicants.


Which is why i mentioned unemployed people from MN.

Gildog- No hate, I am a MN resident. I was not the one to turn this thread in that direction, I just ate the bait from a guy who is always trying to stir the pot. Notice how I mentioned a lot of good people being lumped into a stereotype?


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## hammer007911 (Feb 4, 2009)

woodpecker said:


> Call me dumb but I'm missing your point. If I go over to Moorhead to help with a flood I should be guaranteed a hunting license in MN. as Hammer infers.?????


Nope just a chance to buy a whole season license. Kinda like you already can :beer:

Hammer


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## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

hammer007911 said:


> woodpecker said:
> 
> 
> > Call me dumb but I'm missing your point. If I go over to Moorhead to help with a flood I should be guaranteed a hunting license in MN. as Hammer infers.?????
> ...


Oh...........but you can.........just like I do :wink:

Back to the flood......Any Nodak Outdoors people that need help this spring with flooding... Post Up!!!!! I can help sand bag,haul,etc.....
Only thing different than Hammer, there will be no strings attached!!!
Serious!!!!


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## Gildog (Jan 30, 2007)

yes, back to the flooding...hope for you guys that it cools off and that this first round of flooding doesn't do too much damage as it sends a good chunk of water thru the system...just that much less water to deal with later

GD


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Matt Jones said:


> "I was expecting the easter bunny to bring eggs and candy, not water." :roll:


snarf snarf....

:lol:


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## Gildog (Jan 30, 2007)

Fargo needs 1.5 million sandbags filled by next weekend...Expect 40' crest next Saturday...

wishing you all the best, guys!!


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Gildog said:


> Fargo needs 1.5 million sandbags filled by next weekend...Expect 40' crest next Saturday...
> 
> wishing you all the best, guys!!


And when I decided to rent a house next to the river for a year I thought there was no chance in hell it'd happen that one year...

Looks like I'll be losing some of my beer gut soon.


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## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

USAlx50 said:


> Gildog said:
> 
> 
> > Fargo needs 1.5 million sandbags filled by next weekend...Expect 40' crest next Saturday...
> ...


Holler for help man!!! Got a 4 wheeler and trailer for hauling! Whatever I can do!!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Gildog said:


> Fargo needs 1.5 million sandbags filled by next weekend...Expect 40' crest next Saturday...
> 
> wishing you all the best, guys!!


The National Weather Service is predicting a crest of 37'-40'. Crews started this afternoon and will be going 24/7 building dikes. They don't necessarily expect it to get to 40', it depends on the melt and rain we get in the next week.


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## MrSafety (Feb 22, 2005)

Anyone think the storm they're talking about next week could worsen the outlook?


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

MrSafety said:


> Anyone think the storm they're talking about next week could worsen the outlook?


 dah, do ya think


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

The rain predicted for Monday and Tuesday has already been figured into the crest prediction.


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## MrSafety (Feb 22, 2005)

bearhunter........miss your coffee this morning? The reason I asked the question was to find out if they had figured the coming storm into the predictions.......sorry for being concerned :eyeroll:


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

djleye said:


> The rain predicted for Monday and Tuesday has already been figured into the crest prediction.


Yup.

Thanks for the offer pecker! Looks like my house will be fine but I'm sure ill start sandbaggin somewhere its needed soon.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm not real confident in National Weather Service predictions. I've seen locals eyeball it and be consistently more accurate than the NWS. We are up north on a tributary and in "97" they predicted 20 feet, we built emergency dikes and ended up with about 14 feet. Water never even touched some of the dikes. A week ago they were predicting a possible 15.5, now it's down to 13....or is it? A Corp engineer told me today he was told it will be between 13' to 15'. Being a small town we are scratching our heads trying to decide which we should dike for.

The engineer and I laughed when he was told they (NWS) don't expect any overland flooding in our area because the ground has thawed. I guess if you compare our 6-8 feet of frost to that in Alaska you could consider it thawed. :eyeroll:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I have a whole bunch of 10 acre lots you all could buy from me. Hasn't been flooded since Lake Souris disappeared.

Do any of you ever consider moving to higher ground. I imagine with New Orleans having such similar problems somebody in Fargo should open an eye to the future. Exactly where do you all think you are heading by continuing to build in a known and proven area of repeated disasters. I dunno is it like water ally instead of tornado ally to you all or what?? :eyeroll:


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## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

I spent all day Saturday staking the 41' river level for residents along the river in Moorhead and there are some houses that really need some help building dikes. People are scared and very nervous not knowing what to expect with the coming rain and runoff from the valley to the south. I'm getting really sick of people whose only answer is to move everyone to higher ground. Does moving about 300,000 people that live in the valley sound like a realistic answer to you? People have been in the rrv for 150+ years and the worst and most frequent flooding has only happened within the last 30 or so years. I just hope when the ones that are saying they don't feel sorry for the folks here or think its our fault for living here and get what we deserve, remember what they've posted here and on other websites if god forbid they have a disaster happen to them and others don't come running to help them.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> the worst and most frequent flooding has only happened within the last 30 or so years.


It's ironic that during one of the flood interviews with the Fargo mayor yesterday, the station broke for an advertisment by a tile draining company that urged farmers to get the water off their fields faster. :eyeroll: Go figure. Hope you folks in the valley make out ok, we are griding for a flood here in Valley City too.


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## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

Dick
Went by Valley City wednesday and you guys have a lot of snow left to melt. Best of luck to all of you in Valley City and Mott as I heard that some in that town have water problems also.

New crest prediction today of 39-41' around Friday. Just got done doing some elevation checks for City of Moorhead and was happy to see so many volunteers helping out, but many more are needed.

Also to the rubberneckers- STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!! :******: We don't need you clogging up the roads getting in everyone elses way.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

> Also to the rubberneckers- STAY THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!! We don't need you clogging up the roads getting in everyone elses way.


That is the truth, took a drive after we ran out of sand to go help a couple other people. Had a heck of a time getting into them with all the lookers!!!!!!!!!

I think I heard the Clay Cty Sheriff say that since an emergency has been declared rubber neckers will be given a choice either help or get arrested!!!!!


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## 94NDTA (May 28, 2005)

I had a national guard friend who said he was briefed last night and they moved the crest up to 42.5. He also said that at sandbag central, they had 480K sand bags, and the jumped the goal from 1.5 million to 2.4 million.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Does moving about 300,000 people that live in the valley sound like a realistic answer to you


Duh!! No but to quit adding to the problem is very realistic. :eyeroll:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

When you &*&* gonna grow up and stop calling people such childish names? You know if you guys were actually working so hard you wouldn't have time to notice an onlooker. Oh I bet you made a sport out of this somehow!! I I I me me me!!!!


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## 94NDTA (May 28, 2005)

I made a sport of it.

My job won't let me sandbag.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

We got pulled out of the 8th grade to sandbag to help save our town. Are there any kids that can be trusted to work over there??

It was more fun than school but was not very sporty!! :lol:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

What is the latest crest predictions? Is it officially over 42' now?

I can't find that info anywhere ... yet.

anyone?


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograp ... ,1,1,1,1,1


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

*20,000 HELPING HANDS:* At least 10,000 volunteers turn out; more needed to fight flood

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/235067/

Buses could hardly keep up Monday with the thousands of volunteers eager to fill sandbags and fight the flood. More than 10,000 people volunteered in Fargo-Moorhead, according to estimates from people coordinating the efforts. That doesn't include people helping out friends or family.










Local colleges and universities canceled classes to allow students to participate, and many employers excused workers to join the effort. A line of students at North Dakota State University stretched about a block from the Old Main bus stop to Memorial Union. Minnesota State University Moorhead's Nemzek Hall was the hub for local students and community members to volunteer. There, as at NDSU, volunteers waited in long lines for buses to take them to work sites.

FirstLink also coordinated volunteers at several sites in the community, including the Fargodome.










Many volunteers came from outside Fargo-Moorhead, with more expected today. Kay Schwarzwalter, who works in the state data center at NDSU, volunteered because of the ominous flood predictions. "It's the urgency of it," she said. "Time is of the essence." The outpouring of volunteers was so strong, it was more available than other resources in some areas.

In rural Cass County, a bus holding about 45 students from Casselton's Central Cass High School pulled in to Forest River Road near 76th Avenue South shortly before 3 p.m. Because several houses didn't have enough sand, some students had nothing to do.

"It's not good," said senior Scott McConnell, "but there's nothing they can do about it."

Local high schools also sent busloads to help, including student athletes from Moorhead High. "It's practice, it's just a different practice," Principal Gene Boyle said. "Our students will be learning as much or more about citizenship than we can teach them in the classroom."

Volunteers from outside Fargo-Moorhead had trouble finding hotel rooms Monday.

Fargo Public Schools made a gym available at Carl Ben Eielson Middle School for volunteers.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Proud as hell. My 13 year old daughter wanted to help even though we live in West Fargo and supposedly no worries there, so we went over to the Dome this am and filled sandbags and threw them into payloaders for about 4 hours. Bob Kellam drives a mean payloader, I think he tried to take me out a few times!!!  
I will be back for more abuse as long as the body holds out. ALl are needed, no matter where you live. Get out and do it!!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Anyone have pictures of the flood relief effort?


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

R y a n said:


> What is the latest crest predictions? Is it officially over 42' now?
> 
> I can't find that info anywhere ... yet.
> 
> anyone?


I just got home from South of Fargo and they are thinking 40.1 on Sunday night.

There are a lot of overland flooding problems that will hit before the main crest.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

buckseye said:


> I have a whole bunch of 10 acre lots you all could buy from me. Hasn't been flooded since Lake Souris disappeared.
> 
> Do any of you ever consider moving to higher ground. I imagine with New Orleans having such similar problems somebody in Fargo should open an eye to the future. Exactly where do you all think you are heading by continuing to build in a known and proven area of repeated disasters. I dunno is it like water ally instead of tornado ally to you all or what?? :eyeroll:


Pretty much the entire state of ND is flooding right now. Watford City, Center, Jamestown, Bismarck, and the entire RR Valley is flooding. Crookston, Marshall, and other areas in MN are also in trouble. So that leaves Hettinger and Minot as viable options this year.

A response to your comment about onlookers, my wife was carrying sandbags from a truck on the road and nearly got cut down by some a-hole onlooker who was looking the other direction. So yes onlookers do hurt the ones who are actually working.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> A response to your comment about onlookers, my wife was carrying sandbags from a truck on the road and nearly got cut down by some a-hole onlooker who was looking the other direction. So yes onlookers do hurt the ones who are actually working.


Probably just another volunteer that was there before you got there. Sounds like a tremendous amount of people standing around at some of the locations, waiting to help. Probably an off duty cop or some else of great self importance.


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## bigblackfoot (Mar 12, 2003)

Paul Laney (Cass County Sherriff) said last night on 970 that ANYONE caught onlooking or sight seeing from now on will be FINED and appear in front of a judge.

THE OFFICIALS ARE NOT MESSING AROUND ANYMORE. If you have time to sight see you have time to shovel.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

*Snowfall complicates flood fight as 5 to 8 inches total expected in F-M area*

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/235203/

Volunteers who spent Tuesday building dikes in Fargo-Moorhead woke up this morning to find their work blanketed by several inches of snow, and more was falling, further complicating the flood fight.









Fargo police officers push out a vehicle stuck at the icy intersection on Main Avenue and 25th Street during the morning commute Wednesday morning in Fargo. David Samson / The Forum

About 3 inches of snow had fallen by 7 a.m. in the metro area, and the National Weather Service predicts 5 to 8 inches total from Fargo north to Grand Forks before the storm diminishes this evening.









A pedestrian walks near the snow covered earthen dike running across the 1st Avenue bridge in downtown Fargo Wednesday as weather conditions add difficulty to the ongoing flood fight. David Samson / The Forum

A winter storm warning remains in effect until 3 p.m.

The combination of heavy snow on top of roads made icy from frozen rain prompted no travel advisories in many counties, including Cass.

Fargo Public Schools and Oak Grove Lutheran School were among those that canceled classes today, and West Acres mall announced it wouldn't open.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Under what grounds will they be issuing onlookers citations?

It looks like the observed river heights are going up faster than the predictions...scary stuff.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ahps2/hydrograp ... ,1,1,1,1,1


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Just in...



> *FLOOD UPDATE:* Flood Crest Raised! Record 41-foot crest predicted for Red River on Saturday in Fargo
> 
> http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/235213/
> 
> FARGO - The National Weather Service in Grand Forks said today that the Red River will crest in Fargo *at a record-setting 41 feet *on Saturday, with the crest lasting two to three days.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

> Under what grounds will they be issuing onlookers citations?


Interfering during a civil emergency and a host of other things if they want!


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I thought there was a topic somewhere for people to volunteer to help, but don't see it anymore, so I'll post it here. I'm a class A cdl holder and if someone knows if they need someone to jump in a dump truck and haul clay, pull a flatbed loaded with sandbags around, or do whatever else needs to be done, I'd be more than happy to volunteer to head there on my days off this week.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

ac700wildcat said:


> I thought there was a topic somewhere for people to volunteer to help, but don't see it anymore, so I'll post it here. I'm a class A cdl holder and if someone knows if they need someone to jump in a dump truck and haul clay, pull a flatbed loaded with sandbags around, or do whatever else needs to be done, I'd be more than happy to volunteer to head there on my days off this week.


Yep there is. Go to the "Massive Effort Needed" thread, and call the local coordination number there. They'll transfer you over to the proper folks to use your CDL license to best use.

Thanks!

PM me if you can't find the proper info.

Ryan


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

*TV, radio plan broadcast of special meeting on Fargo flood plans*

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id ... roup/home/

FARGO - WDAY TV and WDAY AM 970 will bring Fargo-Moorhead residents the live broadcast of tonight's special meeting 5 p.m. Fargo City Commission meeting.

The special meeting will be used to discuss the city's flood contingency plan.

In addition, WDAY AM 970 plans to broadcast a 4 p.m. daily update on flooding in Moorhead.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

March 26, 2009
Fargo Works to Hold Back Rapidly Rising River 
By MONICA DAVEY
FARGO, N.D. - Just as city officials here thought that they had built a wall of sand high enough to hold back the swiftly rising Red River, weather forecasters on Wednesday delivered a worrisome forecast: The river was rising higher than predicted, possibly to its highest point ever recorded.

With that, Mayor Dennis Walaker, looking tired and grim, announced that volunteers would need to work into the night, even as heavy snow fell, to add hundreds of thousands more sandbags to the top of a 12-mile-long dike protecting the city. The dike, already covered in sandbags, must be built yet another foot higher, Mr. Walaker said, in the hope of saving the city from what many fear will be a flood of proportions never seen here.

"I don't care how old you are," Mr. Walaker said. "You haven't seen this in the valley."

Worries of major flooding extend well beyond Fargo. Throughout parts of North Dakota and western Minnesota, residents are bracing for the Red River, nearby streams and rivers and the Missouri River to spill their banks - the result, experts said, of a combination of factors. In the fall, the flat terrain here was saturated by rain, followed by a winter of heavy snow, and now - as so much snow began melting - came days more of rain and, on Wednesday, at least four inches of snow.

All around, the frozen conditions were complicating efforts to stop the flooding. In Fargo, where the Red River marks the border with Moorhead, Minn., volunteers in snowsuits told of icy conditions on the dikes they were building but could barely see at times in the falling snow.

Snowplows focused all their efforts on clearing roads for flatbed trucks carrying sandbags and were escorted by police cars with sirens blaring. One concern, some officials said, was whether so many sandbags would function properly and hold back the river waters if they became frozen.

And near Bismarck, where some residents were evacuated and the Legislature closed down, the authorities used explosives to begin breaking up several large ice jams (some with frozen chunks the size of cars) on the Missouri that they feared could dam the river or divert water in unexpected ways.

In this city of 90,000, the state's most populous, political leaders, who met in an emergency session late Wednesday afternoon, said they expected to announce an evacuation plan on Thursday. The mayor said an evacuation had never been tried in Fargo, even after a major tornado more than half a century ago.

Already, south of the city, at least 20 residents (and assorted pets) had to be rescued by boat from homes in which water had pressed through sandbags and made its way into first floors, said Sheriff Paul D. Laney of Cass County.

While much of life stood still in Fargo - schools closed, trials in the municipal court were suspended, as was home garbage collection - hundreds of people swarmed the floor of the Fargodome, the home of North Dakota State University's football team and where a rodeo had been scheduled for this week.

In the center of the stadium, mountains of clay- and rock-filled sand were surrounded by college students, children, members of the National Guard and ordinary residents, all bearing shovels and filling white sandbags. Little forklifts whirred around bearing pallets of bags and dump trucks drove through delivering more sand, even as volunteers offered "fresh hot cookies," neck massages and tetanus shots.

"I think my house will be O.K., but I'm here for all the people in harm's way," said Jack McCrary, 70, a retiree and Fargo resident who was spending a fourth day in the sandbag line.

Mr. McCrary said he had heard concerns about how the snowy, frozen conditions might affect all the flood-control efforts. Would water flow through frozen sandbags? How treacherous would it be to keep adding new bags to the tops of slippery ones?

Weather forecasters predicted that by Saturday waters would swell to more than a foot above the level reached on April 7, 1897, when the record flood occurred here. In 1997, the most recent major flood in this area, the river had been about a foot and a half lower in Fargo than forecasters are predicting this time. That year, it reached even higher levels in Grand Forks, to the north, causing damage of more than $3 billion.

In Fargo's City Hall on Wednesday, city workers, all of whom have been assigned to 12-hour shifts, were answering phone calls from residents who wanted to know what might happen to their homes. "Fargo flood line," the workers answered cheerfully. They checked addresses on city flood maps and urged people to bring items out of their basements.

"I don't want to promise anything," one worker told a caller, "but the city's going to try our best."

Katharine Q. Seelye contributed reporting from New York.


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## Gildog (Jan 30, 2007)

now they say crest of 42', maybe 43', and will last perhaps 3 or more days...Godspeed, Fargo/Moorhead...Godspeed


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Sadly it sounds like there is no way Fargo can raise the dikes to protect them from the 42-43" level, at least not in time. It's begining to sound like they are going to experience the "big flush". Stay safe out there!!

When it comes to building/living in flood prone areas it seems the majority just never learn. Even when forced to comply with floodplain regulations they fight it tooth and nail.


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## brittanypoint (Feb 15, 2009)

Guys i wish i was closer to give you all a hand. Your all in our prayers here.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Fargo city commision meeting now has announced they will raise the dikes to 44 feet in the next 24 hours.No volunteers will be allowed south of 94.....residents only along with about 1200 National Guard troops.

Moorhead has announced manditory evacuation for anyone living west of 8th street/hwy 75.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

They are now going to raise the dikes in south Fargo to 44 feet.But no more volunteers will be used.Only people who live down there along with national guard troops will be allowed in those areas.It sounds like they will be closing both 25th street and University Ave to everyone but emergency vehicles and troops.

The river is now just under 40 feet with about 1/2 foot to go to be the highest ever recorded.

Merit Care Hospital is evacuating all of their patients.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

dakotashooter2 said:


> Sadly it sounds like there is no way Fargo can raise the dikes to protect them from the 42-43" level, at least not in time. It's begining to sound like they are going to experience the "big flush". Stay safe out there!!
> 
> When it comes to building/living in flood prone areas it seems the majority just never learn. Even when forced to comply with floodplain regulations they fight it tooth and nail.


The dikes in south fargo all are at 43' now, they are going to try to get them to 44' protection, 45' height. It sounds like the contingency dikes are going to get done. Deputy Mayor Tim Mahoney is confident that our dikes will hold, the bad news is 3-7 days of elevated river levels. I hope the main dikes hold, if not we are relying on the contingent ones.

The fact of the matter is that this is not a flood prone area, there were decades between even a moderate flood. To put this flood into perspective you need to think of this as the "big one" in California's earthquake zone. We have had a lot of floods in the last 20 years but as I said earlier, we were built above the floodplain but not that far. There has been some political and legal BS that has kept us from getting major flood protection, that is why the cities to the North and South of Fargo have protection and we don't. We'll save that talk for after the flood but there will be a day of reckoning soon.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

here is MN DNR red river flood history

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/climate/floo ... graph.html

Well we just set the new record :soapbox:

40.16'


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> To put this flood into perspective you need to think of this as the "big one" in California's earthquake zone.


It must seem I'm picking on you but really I'm not. Obviously you have never been in even a small earthquake. You are comparing a metro area of millions to 90,000. Where is it even close? I was in the 87 Whittier Narrows quake and I'll take a boat ride any day over that. :-?


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

buckseye said:


> > To put this flood into perspective you need to think of this as the "big one" in California's earthquake zone.
> 
> 
> It must seem I'm picking on you but really I'm not. Obviously you have never been in even a small earthquake. You are comparing a metro area of millions to 90,000. Where is it even close? I was in the 87 Whittier Narrows quake and I'll take a boat ride any day over that. :-?


Obviously this would not have the human effect as the big one, I was going for the rarity of this natural event.

We are also saltier dogs than those Cally dudes, we will survive


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## drjongy (Oct 13, 2003)

Buckseye,

Isn't there some other forum topic you can go to and play with yourself?


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Buckseye,
> 
> Isn't there some other forum topic you can go to and play with yourself?


Testy Testy!! Just stating facts! :eyeroll:


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## Gildog (Jan 30, 2007)

buckseye said:


> > Buckseye,
> >
> > Isn't there some other forum topic you can go to and play with yourself?
> 
> ...


yes, that's what you normally handle!


*getting too serious on here*


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

:beer: :lol: :jammin: :toofunny: :fiddle: :box:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

buckseye said:


> > Buckseye,
> >
> > Isn't there some other forum topic you can go to and play with yourself?
> 
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You rarely state facts, mostly opinions, some of which are bizarre


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> You rarely state facts, mostly opinions, some of which are bizarre


I honestly thought you were smarter than that. :lol:

TK When this flood season started you wrote probably the smartest thing that has been wrote about this flood. You commented Fargo should look at some type of diversion or holding reservoir. That is a good plan and would also help with the water shortages that can occur and are predicted to occur in Fargo's future. :beer:


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## Squeeker (Apr 1, 2004)

Good luck to you all - your efforts, solidarity, and work ethic I have seen from News reports and YouTube videos is something that is truly amazing and something to be VERY proud of.

I can say this of course, not being in this situation, but keeping perspective on things may become increasingly important. Homes are homes and they can be replaced, rebuilt, fixed, etc. over time. Loved ones can't be.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

me and most people I know sent their families out of town already.

I think we need a diversion right north of where the wild rice flows into the red south of fargo. Then I believe it would have to run into the mn side between dilworth and glyndon.

I think this flood proves that walls and earthen levees would be a waste of time and money


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

TK33 said:


> me and most people I know sent their families out of town already.
> 
> I think we need a diversion right north of where the wild rice flows into the red south of fargo. Then I believe it would have to run into the mn side between dilworth and glyndon.
> 
> I think this flood proves that walls and earthen levees would be a waste of time and money


TK33 while the walls are currently holding, I am glad people like you are realizing that a diversion is the only real solution.

Just got home from sandbagging lots of people willing today. Hope we get through this. Sent my family to the folks. None of them happy, but I am much more at ease knowing they are out of the area.


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## ND_duckman (Feb 17, 2006)

dakotashooter2 said:


> Sadly it sounds like there is no way Fargo can raise the dikes to protect them from the 42-43" level, at least not in time. It's begining to sound like they are going to experience the "big flush". Stay safe out there!!


We just got done building up some more dikes to 43 feet. I hope we prove you wrong! Like the mayor said... if we go down...we will go down swinging.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

*Unprecedented Red River flows have forecasters scratching heads*

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/235395/

The Red River has consistently confounded forecasters trying to predict its flood peak.

River watchers believed on Wednesday they had enough information to confidently predict the Red River will crest Saturday at 41 feet - a level that would surge well beyond the record 40.1-foot crest in 1897. But Wednesday's prediction was obliterated as more information came in, resulting in yet another crest prediction on Thursday - 42 or 43 feet in a crest expected to persist for three to seven days. "As the river exceeds the previous record level, the relative uncertainty in forecast models has increased significantly," the National Weather Service announced.

One big problem is that the Red has shallow banks, making stage predictions difficult because stream gages can't measure water that flows overland.

Normally, forecasters' grasp of the crest becomes clearer with each reading from instruments or field observers. "Record flows upstream of Fargo have produced unprecedented conditions on the Red River," the weather service advisory stated. "Given these factors, the river is expected to behave in ways never previously observed."

Just a day earlier, those involved in predicting the crest sounded confident that the picture was gaining clarity as more information became available. Tributaries such as the Wild Rice appeared to reach their crests. "They still don't have every drain, they still don't have every coulee," said Gregg Wiche, director of the U.S. Geological Service's North Dakota Water Science Center in Bismarck. "But the pieces are coming together."

And they add up to a forbidding picture: The Wild Rice River at Abercrombie, whose record peak of 27.5 feet in 1897 already has been surpassed, appeared to crest at 29 feet Thursday.

Similarly, the Sheyenne River at Harwood, near its confluence with the Red, stood at 1 foot below its record stage on Wednesday, with more on the way.

The stage was set for the unprecedented levels in heavy rains that fell in the Red River Valley last fall. But that moisture was locked in frozen ground, and therefore invisible once winter set in.

"The November rain was a huge factor in setting us up," Wiche said. "That's a major factor in this event."

In contrast, the 1997 flood came as no surprise, because it followed a record snowfall of 117 inches in Fargo, resulting in a crest of 39.57 feet. "Most people remember the 1997 flood because of the 117 inches of snow that fell during the winter season," said Adnan Akyuz, North Dakota's state climatologist. "It was by far the most snowfall Fargo ever received."

With this week's snows, Fargo's snowfall total lags about 40 inches behind the record, yet it received the equivalent of 8 more inches of precipitation as of Monday, a tally that doesn't include the heavy rains and snow that fell later in the week.

To keep up with changing stream flows and overland flows, a small army of observers was deployed throughout the Red River Valley. The U.S. Geological Service measures river stages and flows. It reports that information to the National Weather Service for its flood crest projections and to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which is responsible for building dikes. To keep up with the raging Red, the Geological Service brought in crews from Illinois, Iowa and Kansas. Altogether, 10 to 12 river-measuring teams are taking readings on the Red River and its tributaries in North Dakota and Minnesota, Wiche said.

Other readings, such as whether roads are being overtopped, are called in by scores of field observers. Observers report actual readings from streams, fields and roads and the flood forecasters with the National Weather Service enter the data into their computer model. Where observations differ with the expected values, forecasters adjust the model to refine their predictions.

Several weeks ago, the Red's predicted crest was a 50 percent chance of a level of about 38 feet, with a 10 percent chance of reaching 41 feet. Then widespread rains of 2 to 3 inches and the rapid thaw came to the Red River Valley.

"I don't know that it's a Eureka moment," said Scott Jutila, a hydraulic engineer with the Corps of Engineers. "As time goes by and things happen," forecasters can predict the Red River's crest with greater confidence and accuracy. Ice jams always pose a wild card in predicting spring floods, but the 41-foot crest forecast allows for some water backing up downstream from Fargo, Mike Lukes, a National Weather Service hydrologist said. Ice jams typically pose the greatest threat before the river breaks out of its banks, Jutila said.

"We don't consider that to be a big concern right now," he added.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

> TK33 while the walls are currently holding, I am glad people like you are realizing that a diversion is the only real solution


After this unprecendented event I don't how there can be any other plan. Earthen levees and concrete walls would have worked from the 38-40'. But now with the activity of the wild rice and the ice jams on the sheyenne there should be no room to chance.

Earthen levees leach and swell, concrete can be undermined, etc. This flood has proved there can be no room for error. It is frustrating that all that manpower, equipment, sandbags, and clay wasted in certain places. They like the people on the red (MN & ND sides) had the chance to get up some sort of protection but balked at it. A reservoir is financially impractical and with the overland flooding it is also functionally impractical.

Cross our fingers. This is going to be close


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

KFGO is reporting that we crested!!!!

Now we watch dikes. Not quite out of the woods


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

TK33 said:


> KFGO is reporting that we crested!!!!
> 
> Now we watch dikes. Not quite out of the woods


A small (but very important distinction) correction. The National Weather Service says the river has _peaked_. Not crested, but peaked. It will continue to fluctuate over next few days, and may crest higher if conditions change...

Not quite out of the woods, but an important breather to monitor current dikes, and plan for the next step(s) that will surely be coming in 48 hours when the snow event hits.

*fingers and toes crossed*


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## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

My understanding is they are calling it an actual crest...... I just came back from Abercrombie with very much optimism. The river there appears to be down 4-5 ft. judging by the ice in the trees, and the 1997 post. Also where the Wild Rice crosses I29 south of town it looks to me to be slightly lower. Some fields just south of Fargo seem to be a bit higher though. After tonight and into tomorrow, I'm guessing we are going to get a pretty good picture of what we are dealing with!!! Hopefully the 1 more day 1 more foot rally cry will be for falling river and not raising dikes!!!!!


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Guys, it is going to get higher. There is alot of water that is heading into the system right now.


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## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

Got my fingers crossed............. :-?


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

PRAY it stays cold for another week to allow the water currently in the system to pass through before the snowmelt enters.


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## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

I am a total novice in terms on knowledge regarding flooding. I have learned alot by reading people's thoughts and experiences on here. In this case I prefer to read first hand accounts of people with their boots on the ground (who live there) as opposed to the national media types.

With that being said, I still have some questions.

1. I read Ryan's posted article but I still am curious how "they" come to a consensus regarding flood water height? Meaning, how do they predict the flood water crest? And on what day?

2. This may be an obvious question but from what I gather the true flooding usually happens in mid April. What is going to happen once the snow pack melts with warmer temperatures?

3. Who cleans up, and what happens to, the millions of sand bags once the waters disappear?

4. I am not sure if the media is attempting to overly scare people but they paint a very dangerous picture.....my wife's question is; why does anyone stay in their homes in the area with such a dangerous situation lurking?

I truly hope no one is reading anything into any of the questions, I am simply curious.

Thanks and good luck!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

here are my answers/opinions:
1:they guess, or so it seems. I am not 100% sure but I know they have models and charts that use historical events and benchmarks. They measure the moisture in the snow, flow, etc and there is more that I don't know because frankly hydrology is boring unless it is flooding. As in other forums they had a little goof in their calculations a month ago which has put is in this little pickle.

2:right now the weather service is expecting minimal change in the river height, that could change with the day.

3:In 97 the city and contractors clean up the mess. I know unused bags could be shipped upstream. Bags that have contacted water are considered a hazmat, in some cases only hazmat certified contractors handle them. The bags are torn up on a solid surface, bags disposed, sand loaded into trucks and in some cases the sand gets burned and other decontamination methods are used and then it goes back into circulation.

4:As one of our other members posted in another thread, if the water does not hit someone needs to watch the sump pump and the drains. A rep from the city of Moorhead mentioned that on the radio. Last night a tv reporter asked me why we were going into a flood zone, they like to overblow it.

This is what I have seen, I barely passed fluid mechanics in college so I know there are others who know more on this one than me


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Decoyer said:


> PRAY it stays cold for another week to allow the water currently in the system to pass through before the snowmelt enters.


Amen! Aside from this current blizzard the cool temps will only help this week.


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