# Steady to wing and shot



## gonedoggin (Mar 20, 2008)

How many of you expect your dogs steady to wing/shot? I'm constantly surprised that I never see a steady dog on the hunting shows no matter how much bragging the host may do on the dogs.

I think that's one thing that really annoys me about watching the "Bird Dog Challenge" on TV. The rules actually encourage having a breaking dog run in at the flush in order to beat the clock. That's hardly my idea of the ultimate hunting dog.


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## Gordon Guy (Jul 23, 2007)

Apparently, on this site at least, there aren't many folks that think the way you do. I like a steady dog when I hunt sharp-tails. This actually happened: My dog pointed, I walked in, a bird flushed and my dog stands through the fall, I reloaded only to have a late riser take off. If my dog wasn't steady she would have run up the whole bunch of them when I had an empty gun. I loved having a steady dog. However it's a lot of work to keep a dog steady, the dog man has to be as disciplined as the dog. Needless to say she's now only steady to the flush, but is no longer steady to the fall.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

gonedoggin said:


> How many of you expect your dogs steady to wing/shot? I'm constantly surprised that I never see a steady dog on the hunting shows no matter how much bragging the host may do on the dogs.
> 
> I think that's one thing that really annoys me about watching the "Bird Dog Challenge" on TV. The rules actually encourage having a breaking dog run in at the flush in order to beat the clock. That's hardly my idea of the ultimate hunting dog.


The way I see it, to each his own... If someone wants to train their dog to be steady to wing and shot, that's their business and vice versa. The only person the dog needs to please is the owner. If the owner is happy with a dog that isn't steady to wing and shot why should anyone else care?

Having said that, I can see why you would not enjoy watching TV shows where dogs are not steady if that's what you like to see in your own dogs. Keep in mind that what you are watching are games....they are not real hunting, and when you add competition into the formula you're going to see people doing whatever it takes to win. You're right....with the Bird Dog Challenge it's all about beating the clock, so a dog that is steady is not as efficient as a dog that is not.

My guess is that here in Montana not 1 dog in 100 is steady to wing and shot.....that would include both the flushing and pointing breeds. As a matter of fact, in over 30 years of hunting here I don't ever recall seeing a dog that was steady to wing and shot. That doesn't mean that the birds are chased into the next county....most people train their dogs to keep the chase short. Most dogs figure it out on their own, or at least mine have as have friends' dogs I've hunted over..


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

It's a Hell of a lot of work to keep a dog steady to wing and shot, retriever or pointing breed. It's nice if you hunt with other guys so they can shoot and you can train. The problem is, it's very hard to swing on the bird and watch the dog at the same time. Timing is everything and I like to hit the dog at first flinch or step. Can't do that when I'm shooting the bird.

Now, I'm only talking about young dog's here. With an older dog, you should be able to play the Star Spangled Banner when a birds flushes and have the dog remain steady.

Anyhow, that's why you don't see more fully broke dog's...It's just too dang much work for the average Joe.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Mine aren't but it would be nice hunting sharpies, both for the late flush and when the shot is uphill on low flyers. On the other hand instant getgo is good in the cattails with roosters.


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## Radar21 (Jun 20, 2008)

Thats the recipe for a finished pointer. Flushers can have their arguements pos/neg. But pointers really should be steady. I wont even go into the so-called pointing labs-let em do as they please.

Look at it this way. When a pointer makes game and establishes a point, at what point should they be allow to break point? If lyou et em break at the fall, the shot, the flush, you are letting them decide. Sooner or later you are gonna have issues with the dog taking out birds. Why, because they are deciding, and they slowly find just how far you will let em go. Once on point, the dog should not creep a step. Again, they are pushing your limits (just like kids) and one step, becomes two, becomes three, becomes - a- flush.

Once a point is established, the dog should be staunch, and not move until released. Period. Not until you release with a head tap, a toot, or o.k. This strict protocol will keep the dog steady.

We let our finished setters and pointers run 100- 200 yards out on the prairie. When they slam on point, that bird is stuck (usually), and we can WALK up and shoot with out worring about hitting dogs, or blowing late risers.

Its can be a long road, but a pro can get you there amazingly quick. Yes there is a cost, but you will have that dog 11-15 years. The only way to get a dog truly steady is to use birds, lots of em. The trainer will show the dog more birds, and reps, than they will see in three seasons.

Now, I have a 9 yr old pointer. She has seen it all. I trust her to relocate on her own. We have un understanding. If the bird moves, she knows it. If she is backing, or has one stuck- she stays steady. But if there is nothing there to point or back- well she knows that I know that she knows........She has learned the wiley ways of the running rooster. If the bird flushes early, she stands her point mind you, but if it ran she will relocate to establish a point.

Its a beautiful thing man.

Speaking of "bird dog challenge" shows, half those dogs dont really point either. And most the retrieves arent text book. In fact, very few ESPN or Outdoor Channel dogs are well trained.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

We keep it simple...

Find bird

Point bird

Retrieve bird


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I think its highly over rated and a waste of time and training effort unless you field trial. And even then its just one more thing to give the judges some criteria for picking a winner.

I'm with Dak :beer:


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## lecub (Mar 14, 2003)

I like to have my springers steady to flush but go on the shot, they know if I shoot the bird is going down  in heavy cover I want that dog in the fall area as fast as possible. also having steady to flush is a plus if you are in a hen heavy area.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

Good topic for discussion..... Lots of good points have been made (no pun intended). :lol: I hunt primarily pheasants with flushing dogs. I'm a crappy shot and I like my dogs to be on the rooster as soon as possible as a wing-tipped rooster can run like a freaking greyhound in this country. If the dog isn't on them quickly, they can easily be lost. My dogs are excellent trackers, but they still come up empty from time to time.

I'm probably just making up excuses/reasons for being too lazy to train a dog to be steady and keep it steady.... I admit it!!! A steady dog is fun to watch though be it a pointer or a flusher.....no doubt about that.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

There's many benefits to having a steady to wing and shot dog. For one, even the water fowl guys will benefit, having a steady dog in the blind. By teaching and reinforcing it in other venues where guns go off, the dog understands to watch the bird fall and go when told.

Beyond the safety of the matter, a dog is much more apt to watch the fall and mark the birds extremely better than a dog running towards the fall before the gun goes off. What if you have a double go down and the dog is over half way to the first fall? I know I can't mark very well and surely the dog didn't see it fall.

Teaching steady or sit to flush and shot isn't that difficult. Hoping that your dogs all respond to whistles, condition for sit to whistle and there you have it. Hit the whistle on a flush, reinforce with the collar and repeat.


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## jwdinius1 (Dec 14, 2006)

> We keep it simple...
> 
> Find bird
> 
> ...


I like that! i have a 2 year old choc. Lab who is very very good with waterfowl but semmingly hasn't discovered that he has a nose. so when i take him pheasent hunting his rules are even easier

1. stay within my gun range( depending on days can be between 10 yards or 50 yards) :lol:

2.) retrieve the bird for me!! thats all
:beer: [/u]


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

> There's many benefits to having a steady to wing and shot dog. For one, even the water fowl guys will benefit, having a steady dog in the blind. By teaching and reinforcing it in other venues where guns go off, the dog understands to watch the bird fall and go when told.


I believe dogs can be taught the difference between steady in the blind for waterfowl and steady to wing and shot for upland. Different circumstance, different set of rules.



> Beyond the safety of the matter, a dog is much more apt to watch the fall and mark the birds extremely better than a dog running towards the fall before the gun goes off. What if you have a double go down and the dog is over half way to the first fall? I know I can't mark very well and surely the dog didn't see it fall.


Without a doubt they'll mark better if they are steady. I have, however, seen some pretty amazing retrieves on pheasants in thick, head-high (human) cattails where there is no way in heck the dog was able to mark the fall of the bird. In those instances, I believe steady to wing and shot is actually a hindrance.


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## Radar21 (Jun 20, 2008)

I watched a rooster go down in a picked sunflower field. We released the pointers right after the fall and just then, the bird came to. No cover to speak of, clear mark. The rooster took off with two english pointers giving chase, bird in plain view. 2 sections later- the bird got away. If the bird is gonna get away, 2 seconds isnt gonna matter.

Everyone desrves one good finished dog(at least), in their life. If its a pointer it should be steady. If its a retriever, it should be steady in the blind. This is a greater pleasure to watch good dog work than to shoot a limit. The nice part is that they usually go hand in hand.

Spaniels is more of a grey area. "Hupped to the flush" has its pros and cons. All flushers should at least hup on a single blast, regardless of the situation(fly aways, out of range, deer, flush, near aroads, etc)


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

The dogs chased a rooster for two miles and didn't catch him?


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## gonedoggin (Mar 20, 2008)

For you guys who don't keep your dogs steady, how do you handle hunting w/ other dogs? I don't like dog fights and I don't like my dog getting his retrieves stolen by a breaking dog.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

I think Bob is right in that it is highly over rated unless one field trials.

Most of my springers have been when I was younger and as I've gotten older it's not as important to me.

I handle it by usually hunting with people without dogs. This gives my setter more points and my springer all the retrieves.

If it was so important it made me upset, I'd just hunt alone.


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## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

I guess that it is up to the individual as to whether they like a dog that is steady to wing and shot! My dog is not steady and I don't want her to be. In the cover that we hunt in most of the time, I want my dog on the downed bird as soon as possible. When I hunt with my boys and a bird is down, if the bird is not found right away, we take all the dogs to the spot and search for the bird. If anything makes me mad it is a lost pheasant.I would sooner go home with one in the bag than lose it because it was my dogs bird to retrieve and I didn't get help finding it. Codee will stop chasing when I tell her to so I have no problem with her getting to far on a hen or wild flush. Just my opinion! Good discussion.


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