# Sticky  simple blood tracking for wounded deer



## Bobm

Decided this would be a good topic for a sticky, you bowhunters that are not bird dog or retriever owners can teach any little fido to do this.

Heres the short simple way to do it...

Basically when you gut or hang a deer try to recover blood from it and freeze it, if you have some buddies that will help get them to recover as much blood as possible everytime you or they kill a deer.

Now freeze it, film canisters or small tupperware type containers work well.

Next the training,

Put a harness on the dog this will teach the dog to associate the harness with the tracking job at hand. Use this harness for tracking and nothing else. 
Now the rest is simple take the frozen containers of blood and mix them with a gallon of well water ( dont use chlorinated water) then lay a trail with a gallon milk jug with holes punched in it so the water/blood mixture drips steadily on the trail. one film canister or small cantainer of this size per gallon will work well. wear rubber boots to conceal your scent you want the dog to track the deer blood not you.

First trails should be straight and maybe 25 feet get the dog to track them, and have a reward on the end, hot dogs or any dog treat the dog likes will work. do this once each day for a few days so the dog learns that there is something real good for him at the end of the short track.

Next gradually make them a little harder first longer in a straight line the start to make right angle turns so the dog learns to backtrack and pick the trail back up.

Dogs pick this up real quick, little dogs like dachounds and small mutts work well because they are close to the ground and naturally ground trail, but labs and shorthairs learn it quick also. The nice thing about little dogs is they wont jerk your arm out of the socket trailing, a big dog in a harness can pull like you cannot believe.

DO NOT DRAG A DEER HIDE!!

The reason you are going to the trouble of collecting the blood is to teach the dog to track blood trails not deer, anywhere you kill a deer there will be lots more of them, you want the dog to track blood trails only.

When you actaully do this in the field wear orange and have some assistants that hang back if possible wearing orange also. have one of them bring a 22 pistol if legal, in case you need to dispatch one( check regs).

You can place deer road kills at the end of trails when you get to the advanced part of the training, then really praise the dog when he finds it and give him his treat.

thats about it.

Key points 
1)no deer hide drags, just blood 
2)dog always on lead while wearing tracking harness , otherwise the dog will leave you behind and is in danger of being shot during gun season, never use this harness for anything else but tracking.

3) you take the week or two it takes to train this and you will never lose another deer 
4) let other deer hunters in your area know you can do this to give the dog ample practice each season 
5) love your dog


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## Lvn2Hnt

Just wondering if it's legal (in ND) to use a dog to track a wounded deer?


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

nope. Talked to warden.


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## Lvn2Hnt

That's what I thought. However, I guess I'd rather have the deer recovered, than lay out there suffering or gone to waste.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I guess I like my truck to much to risk it. I straight out asked the warden IS IT LEGAL to track a deer with a dog. If you don't have a gun, or a weapon. He said NO and you risk a large fine.

I WOULD NOT risk it. If you can't find the deer, it's not worth loosing your guns, a truck a large fine, or all of the above.


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## mburgess

One of the dumbest laws in the books IMO! Excellent training advice.


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## Burly1

Can anyone find the part of the century code that covers this? I can't believe that the law would permit such a waste, if the deer was tracked by an unarmed tag holder and a leashed dog. I've heard misinformation from state government officials in the past. Would really like to see the book on this one. All I can find is the statement that dogs can not be used to HUNT deer. I've found nothing that details recovery of downed game.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

He told me thats where it is covered. Illegal taking of game with a dog. I guess you could have your wife take your dog for a walk in the woods! :lol:


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## Lvn2Hnt

How could it be considered to be illegally taking big game with a dog if.....

...if you wound a deer and have a general idea where it has laid down, but can't seem to find it. You leave your gun in the vehicle, take the dog out with or without the intent to find the deer and end up coming upon the deer. Let's just say that said deer is either dead, or close enough to it that it isn't going anywhere soon. You take the dog back to the vehicle and go to retrieve the deer.

Given that you are legally licensed and abiding by all game and fish laws.


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## ND4LIFE

its a good start, but there are many ways to get started and some are available on the web.

http://www.deersearch.org/introduc.htm

http://www.deerrecoverypa.org/DRP Home.htm

couple things Deer blood isn't a nessicity, go to your butcher and get cows blood. no need to water down. when starting put small rewards/treats along the way. Wait at least 2 hours for human scent to dissapate, rubber boats or not. In the JGHV testing blood drops should be spaced approx 3 feet apart. getting started can be closer. dog needs to be calm and focused on the task, don't let them get distracted. Always do on a lead, harness or a blood tracking specific collar.

as far as state laws, first, the dog is always on lead, you are not hunting with the dog, you are recovering. Some states still prohibit this with or without a gun, but you could be just out taking the dog for a walk.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

LVN.

I have no idea. There was a guy in a class I took for the Fargo Bowhunt, that owns some blood hounds, and said if anyone wounds a deer, and can't find it he would be glad to track it.

The warden said "Nope not happening, that is ILLEGAL." I don't make the rules man just try and follow them. 
I guess you could call the NDGF and bring it up to them, they may consider changing the rule. It is kind of stupid in my eyes. Every year we find MANY dead deer that were wounded the week after rifle. Infact I have found 4 dead deer, all of which were on Sunday of opener.


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## ND4LIFE

here is a recent study that includes deer recovery with a dog.

http://www.dnr.sc.gov/wildlife/deer/articlegad.html

from the deer regulations

"22. Use of Animals and Tree Stands
Animals - It is unlawful to use any animal except horses or mules as an aid in the hunting or taking of big game."

sounds like a grey area, your not using the dog in the act of hunting or taking of the animal, only after the fact in recovery.


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## Bobm

use deer blood not cow blood, it makes a difference.

They use cow blood for tests and trials because its available.

I'm not tying to be a wise guy but you want the dog to track deer blood only, nothing else.

As to the legality.....
Personally I think that if you are unarmed its legal to walk the dog anywhere you want if you have permission from the landowner to walk there.

I've found at least thirty to forty wounded deer over the years with dogs, maybe more.

Its stupid to waste a deer and I have strong doubts a warden can ticket you for walking your dogon a leash anywhere, just dont carry a gun.

I had this discussion with a warden in Wi who tried to say I was hunting deer with a dog.

I told him to explain how me and my dog on leash walking thru the woods
unarmed is hunting. He told me he could ticket me, I told him do it and I will see you in court, he didn't give me a ticket. :wink: .

I am pro Law enforcement but not going to let someone tell me something I know is stupid. Truthfully I think he agreed with my point of view but just could not Officially support it...

this thread was meant to help people not waste game


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## ND4LIFE

Blood tracking is a mindset not a particluar scent exercise. I am not sure how much expereince you have had, me not much and only have taken one dog through a VGP under the JGHV testing. But I learned and trained with some very expereinced blood tracking people. Yeah cow blood is more available and i think deer blood is easier but its all about the mindset of the dog, the dog needs to be calm and focused. You could put drops of soup out and it wouldn't matter. its all about getting the dogs nose to the ground (deep nose) and methodically work the track. Thats why in the germany a specifc collar is importnant part of tracking, the dog understands with this collar I do this.

There are many who train with small treats and handler scent and allow the tracks to age longer and longer then add blood later. They have adapted a training regiment based on a number of sources including schutzhund. I watched a dog smoke a 400m blood track in a test, it was the dogs third blood track and had only trained on treats before that. The thought is that blood is a dead scent and not motivating to a dog, you need to get the dog motivated, want him to use a deep nose and slowly move forward along the track.

By all mean if you have access to unlimited deer blood or fresh tracks take advantage, but I beleive if you start off getting the dogs mindset in order you will be much more successful no matter what you put out.


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## Bobm

I agree with that. Cow blood is better than nothing.

I've trained about 30-35 tracking dogs( shorthairs) all my own over the last 35 years.

As an avid bowhunter its been a real help. I have enough buddies that understand and have seen my dogs in action that if I ask them to collect deer blood I can get a lot of it. They know where to come when they lose a deer.

I also regularly hunt deer with my shorthairs and my drilling, that really helps put it together for the dogs. That provides the motivation you speak of believe me. I've killed at least 50 deer over every shorthair I've trained to track since I've lived in GA, thats something we can do legally down here and is a lot of fun. Nothing like walking a big brushy clear cut and have the dog point, wondering is it a quail?? or is it a 10 point buck? that will get your heart going.

When my 5 older current shorthairs pass way I plan to get a german line long haired dashund and train him to track.

I'll still have my 2 eps, my DK, and will probably get another GSP also.

I use a tracking harness not a collar, in my opinion its easier for the dog to differentiate because my dogs often wear e collars when I bird hunt them


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## xdeano

I'd say take the dog for a walk with orange on and a shotgun. find the deer, flag it and come back to it later. Darn i hate when the dog doesn't flush any birds up. There isn't anything against walking the dog. Just be smart about it, don't go on posted property without permission etc.

xdeano


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## Hooligan

An actual interesting subject, I think its needs to be petitioned myself.
As long as the dog is being used for tracking, on a leash and not having a gun in your possesion while tracking should do no harm.

It is a grey area.

One needs to ask the game warden how he feels about wounded deer going to waste and in real heavy cover, a dog would be beneficial in finding the animal, therefore, it doesn't go to waste. Meaning the hunter would get the orginal deer he shot the first time, instead of wounding and losing 2-3 other deer, that would be taken away from 2-3 other hunters.
Just my 2 cents


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## Sasha and Abby

Bobm said:


> use deer blood not cow blood, it makes a difference.
> 
> They use cow blood for tests and trials because its available.
> 
> I'm not tying to be a wise guy but you want the dog to track deer blood only, nothing else.
> 
> As to the legality.....
> Personally I think that if you are unarmed its legal to walk the dog anywhere you want if you have permission from the landowner to walk there.
> 
> I've found at least thirty to forty wounded deer over the years with dogs, maybe more.
> 
> Its stupid to waste a deer and I have strong doubts a warden can ticket you for walking your dogon a leash anywhere, just dont carry a gun.
> 
> I had this discussion with a warden in Wi who tried to say I was hunting deer with a dog.
> 
> I told him to explain how me and my dog on leash walking thru the woods
> unarmed is hunting. He told me he could ticket me, I told him do it and I will see you in court, he didn't give me a ticket. :wink: .
> 
> I am pro Law enforcement but not going to let someone tell me something I know is stupid. Truthfully I think he agreed with my point of view but just could not Officially support it...
> 
> this thread was meant to help people not waste game


Bobm is spot on.


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## Dick Monson

Folks, it's not a "grey area" when a person has to think up scenarios to circumvent the ND game law. It might fly in other states and maybe the law could or should be changed in ND, but until it is changed, the consequences are severe and everybody knows that before hand. Don't take the shot if the animal can't be killed right there.

This is heading into that other thread, "oops I shot a hen pheasant, now what?". Excuse me, the law is clear.


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## Bobm

Wow I'm always surprised at the things on here that become controversial.

No shot ever insures the deer can be killed "right there" and depending on cover a couple hundred yards can mean a lost deer.

Whats ethical and whats legal don't always coincide, canned in the fence 
"hunting" is legal in ND. I doubt Dick would argue its ethical.

So I guess anyone that feels it ethical to just leave a deer to rot should do so because as Dick correctly says, its illegal to use dogs to retrieve dead deer in ND. You can always just shoot another one, after all nothing is wasted in nature.

Personally I do what I believe is right and ethical and when some politician creates a law with unintended bad consequence I use my own moral compass as my guide.

You all are free to choose which path to follow.

I am not advocating anyone do anything legal or otherwise. Just trying to make the dog training forum interesting and useful.


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## p67

Will any blood do? Just wondering.

I can use a deer tail or piece of deer skin as the treat [toy] at the end of the trail as I have these in the freezer, lots of em.


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## Bobm

yes any blood will do do not use deer parts you want the dog to track blod not deer.

And deer processing place should be able to scrape up deer blood in their freezer you could freese and dilute later

road kills usaully have alot of it in their body cavity that still good in cold weather


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## p67

Cheers.


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## willforu1

If I want deer blood all I have to do is thaw out a package of Venison in my freezer.

I lost a big buck opening day (Nov 15th). I am still hunting the rack. It's Christmas day and I am still sick. I would risk the fine. In fact I had a few dogs out there a few days after but they were not trained.


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## buckseye

I just leave the gun at home and take the dog out for a hike and waalaa where have we seen this before?? :sniper: :lol:


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## knutson24

heres the actually text from the ND century code.

20.1-05-04. Using certain animals and artificial lights in taking big game unlawful.

No person, to hunt, pursue, kill, take, or attempt to take, or to aid in the hunting or taking of, any
big game animal, may:
1. Use any animal except horses or mules.
2. Use any artificial light, including spotlights and automobile and motorcycle
headlights.
3. Engage in the practice commonly known as shining for deer. An individual who
shines any area commonly frequented by big game animals with any artificial light,
between the hours of sunset and sunrise, is in violation of this section. However, an
individual may use a flashlight with a power source of not over six volts to take
raccoon.

which doesnt say anything about the recovery of game. But my question is doesnt this read a little funny.Shouldn't it read more like this

20.1-05-04. Using certain animals and artificial lights in taking big game unlawful.
No person, to hunt, pursue, kill, take, or attempt to take, or to aid in the hunting or taking of, any
big game animal, may *not.*

1. Use any animal except horses or mules.
2. Use any artificial light, including spotlights and automobile and motorcycle
headlights.
3. Engage in the practice commonly known as shining for deer. An individual who
shines any area commonly frequented by big game animals with any artificial light,
between the hours of sunset and sunrise, is in violation of this section. However, an
individual may use a flashlight with a power source of not over six volts to take
raccoon.

but then again I am not a lawyer and I'm probably just reading too much into things


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## Lil Sand Bay

Using a dog for big game ,excepting bear, is illegal here in Wisconsin. Anyone who came into my court with any of the above posted scenarios would find themselves guilty. We can't have it both ways guys; can't complain about judges not throwing the book at some of those breaking hunting/fishing codes, while dreaming up ways to circumvent other existing laws.


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## milenko

i lost 2 hogs archery hunting jagd is on the way from europe i dont wot to hapend again  im ready to got my tag on it. :beer:


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## buckseye

Yeah and how about blind hunters we have them too!! I've never seen one but have read of them. Sometimes you just have to do what is right when no one is watching. :beer:


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## milenko

buckseye said:


> Yeah and how about blind hunters we have them too!! I've never seen one but have read of them. Sometimes you just have to do what is right when no one is watching. :beer:


 8) i have yelow lab i can use for walking me blind thru woods and jagd to protect us  :beer:


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## milenko

:beer: 








got my pup for blood tracking from Croatia 
Ther is video wit her working rabbit skin 




 Milenko


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## dakotashooter2

I'm not sure I would depend on the game wardens interpretation of this law. His job is enforcement not interpretation. An interpretation from the State Attorney General is going to be the final word and it can be had in writing. The question should emphasize that the dog would be used for the recovery of the animal without a weapon present. This may be something we should pursue. My thoughts would be to make it permisable for recovery only with the provision that the dog is leashed, no weapon is carried, and a game warden is notified prior to the tracking (so he may be present if he chooses).


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## l2andom

Kind of late but I got this from the Wisconsin DNR site.



> Is it legal to use a dog to track a deer?
> While it is *illegal* to use a dog *to hunt *deer, the *DNR allows the use of a dog to track* a deer so long as you *do not have any weapon *capable of reducing a deer to your possession with you while you are tracking and the *dog is kept on a leash no longer than 8 feet in length*. .


Source: http://dnr.wi.gov/org/land/wildlife/faq/dog/Q2.htm

edit: Also sorry that its a WI site, I just noticed a few people have hunted or currently live in WI on the forums. I'm unsure about the ND laws.


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## parklandgroupohio

Cool. Very easy to follow. It's really great to know that there are simple blood trackings out there.


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## Bustem36

FYI for you guys...They do have search and rescue horses that are used like dogs...They use air scenting to track. Problem solved ride your horse to your deer! :thumb:

Or just go bird hunting in the same area dumb law but lots of loop holes!


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## rambo2

Good one.thanks for sharing.


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## SettersRule

Many states, have introduced bills by hunter activists lobbying efforts to allow dogs to aid in the use of tracking game.

Perhaps ND and other states need a core goup of hunters and dog men to sdo just that.

Its not hard guys, just takes a little initiative.


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## bowstringboy

My Drahthaar's have been trained to do this and have tracked blood over 40 hours old.


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## Jig Master

I am pro using dogs to aid in the recovery of lost deer. Here in R.I. we had the same debate, including all the scenarios but, fish and game wouldn't budge. I guess that in N.D. it's the same as here in R.I., where it's legal to track wounded deer with a coyote or two, off the leash.


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## E5tmily

Good one.thanks for sharing.


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## darksector

knutson24 said:


> heres the actually text from the ND century code.
> 
> 20.1-05-04. Using certain animals and artificial lights in taking big game unlawful.
> 
> No person, to hunt, pursue, kill, take, or attempt to take, or to aid in the hunting or taking of, any
> big game animal, may:
> 1. Use any animal except horses or mules.
> 2. Use any artificial light, including spotlights and automobile and motorcycle
> headlights.
> 3. Engage in the practice commonly known as shining for deer. An individual who
> shines any area commonly frequented by big game animals with any artificial light,
> between the hours of sunset and sunrise, is in violation of this section. However, an
> individual may use a discount flashlight with a power source of not over six volts to take
> raccoon.
> 
> its a very nice details of a flashlight , i think now i buy a flashlight , its very nice things
> 
> which doesnt say anything about the recovery of game. But my question is doesnt this read a little funny.Shouldn't it read more like this
> 
> 20.1-05-04. Using certain animals and artificial lights in taking big game unlawful.
> No person, to hunt, pursue, kill, take, or attempt to take, or to aid in the hunting or taking of, any
> big game animal, may *not.*
> 
> 1. Use any animal except horses or mules.
> 2. Use any artificial light, including spotlights and automobile and motorcycle
> headlights.
> 3. Engage in the practice commonly known as shining for deer. An individual who
> shines any area commonly frequented by big game animals with any artificial light,
> between the hours of sunset and sunrise, is in violation of this section. However, an
> individual may use a flashlight with a power source of not over six volts to take
> raccoon.
> 
> but then again I am not a lawyer and I'm probably just reading too much into things


its a very nice details of a flashlight , i think now i buy a flashlight , its very nice things


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## darksector

I bought some good led lights at a very cheap rate from this website


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## TKincaid

hunt4P&Y said:


> I guess I like my truck to much to risk it. I straight out asked the warden IS IT LEGAL to track a deer with a dog. If you don't have a gun, or a weapon. He said NO and you risk a large fine.
> 
> I WOULD NOT risk it. If you can't find the deer, it's not worth loosing your guns, a truck a large fine, or all of the above.


Walking your dog on a lead IS legal however.

And that cannot be imposed with fine. Take a GPS and mark the locale of the find.

Many many states also had silly laws like these before understanding the ethical conservation role that good tracking dogs could play and most states now allow the use of dogs. Id guess that No Dak could too if they lobbied correctly and hunters got involved.


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## TKincaid

hunt4P&Y said:


> LVN.
> 
> I have no idea. There was a guy in a class I took for the Fargo Bowhunt, that owns some blood hounds, and said if anyone wounds a deer, and can't find it he would be glad to track it.
> 
> The warden said "Nope not happening, that is ILLEGAL." I don't make the rules man just try and follow them.
> I guess you could call the NDGF and bring it up to them, they may consider changing the rule. It is kind of stupid in my eyes. Every year we find MANY dead deer that were wounded the week after rifle. Infact I have found 4 dead deer, all of which were on Sunday of opener.


Youre not using the dog to aid in hunting or taking.
Youre using to aid in recovery.
Again You are simply Walking your dog. If the dog lowers its head to track, well, thats just what dogs do on walks.

HOW you phrase the question to the warden, will dictate his response to you.


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## Habitat Hugger

I once asked Terry Steinwand about the questions of the only animals allowed in the hunting and taking of deer? Horses and mules OK. But I asked him what if I take my my Lammapair to pack back a buck,or, hypothetically what if I happen to have a team of oxen OR really hypothetically, a Circus Elephant that could help pack out that Turdy Point deer? He laughed and sort of intimated that this would be a judgement call on behalf of the warden. He seemed to not get too excited about it and left me with the impression that such scenarios would likeley not be an issue.
More importantly IMO, is the question of can I use a dog to find a presumed downed deer shot at sundown or any circumstance where finding the deer turns out to be problematic? First off, we all realize that running or chasing deer with dogs in ND is and should be illegal. Yes, I know it is done elsewhere. 
I've personally used my little English Cocker 6,now 7 times over the years to find killed deer after dark for myself and hunting buddies, who have done their darndest to track wounded deer till available light is gone! The first time I Looked for a nice muley buck till past dark the night before, and 3-4 hours the next morning. Nothing......BUT pheasant season is on, and I can take my dog hunting,pheasants can't I....short story even shorter -found the beautiful 5x5 dead in an ultra thick patch of bull berry - could hardly see it even with the dog sitting on the deer, which looked like a rock in there.
Second time - shorter story - arrowed a nice 5X5 near dark, tracked and looked till after dark, then put a lighted color on my dark dog, went for a stroll in the direction the deer was last seen, and bingo! Ironically when the landowner and I went out to retrieve the deer, it was so dark I missed it by 100 yards, and my little dog found him again in 5 minutes. We laughed that we should count this as two finds!
Third time - same thing! Dead doe shot by a buddy at sundown, went further than any of us thought and in a totally different direction! We followed the lighted collar darting here and there on the little mutt right up to the deer. 
So, is it illegal to walk your dog with a lighted collar on After dark? No, as long as you are not armed with a bow or rifle, though we CWP guys might be exempt!?! I dunno.... and be awfully sure the deer is most likely dead, though we all know we could be wrong in this - always a judgement call....
I did lose one deer this fall, mortally wounded but jumped the fence into fairly unfriendly property owners, so left it till next morning. Found him after one dog hour OK, but was totally eaten by coyotes. Two were still hanging around and might have given my dog a bad time, but that's another story. If I had felt a bit more comfortable that the unfriendly bunch wouldn't gladly turn me in, I likely could have averted this loss and just went ahead and found him, though coyotes have to eat too, I guess.

Great info from Bobm and others! I have never tried to train a dog for tracking per se - I think my dog just gets excited, smells some blood or endorphins/pheromones shed from the hit deer, and follows the track, excited about what might be found! She seems to now know exactly what we are looking for under the scenario of dusk and hit deer smell, having done it a few times, and loves it. But a tracking dog per se, she is NOT, other than upland/waterfowl. I also believe just about any dog would sniff around, get curious and excited, and follow a trail to a dead deer. Most dogs, anyway. I'd bet a lot of farm dogs do this every year. 
The bottom line, IMHO, not legal opinion, is that I think what the G and F doesn't want is dogs running everywhere during deer season, running deer, etc. A real slippery slope! Done with discretion, with the dog under control, and not carrying weapons, etc. They might or might not give you a pass, depending on the circumstance. But no guarantees.......


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## Habitat Hugger

TKincaid - good points above, though I'm curious about your comment about walking a dog on a lead IS legal, inferring that being out with one off leash would be illegal!? Thinking about it, I guess you are thinking about near cities, towns, parks where no off leash dog walking is allowed. I was more thinking put in some Ranchers pasture,etc. Walking a dog here off leash, even at night, would be a stretch for any prosecution. Around a city, say in a special hunt area, I sure wouldn't let a dog run off leash. And on leash, if he/she happens to find a deer, so what!?! But the leash would be a PITA for both you and the dog.

Beware the legal term "strict liability" which as I understand it, means that the if a warden sees something he feels is illegal and writes up a citation, then it IS illegal, no matter what you say and you WILL be found guilty! Yes, there are good well meaning things about this rule, but bad stuff, too! Been there experienced that......still hot under the collar About it, 30 years later!


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## TKincaid

Walking your dog is not illegal, strict liability or not. Walking ones dogs on lead, is not illegal. Period.
Warden can get stuffed. Im walking my dog. Sue the warden and state for harassment if a problem.

If youre detained, ask why, and comply when you give warden a fee schedule, then a BILL for their Order. 
Every Order comes with a Bill. Ever go to McDonalds? 
If this is too confusing, then dont speak to warden without your attorney present, call him during this process.
Our ancestors fled Europe for these reasons- shooting Kings deer that 'belonged' to the King. Now we accept it...because.

Residents should work with their state to change laws, tracking on lead, is now legal in close to 2-3 dozen states. 
Made many inroads in the last 2 decades in so doing. Thankfully.


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## Jackchan44

Thank you so much for great discussion here. Glad to know about it.


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