# Economic indicators



## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

This is not intended to be a debate thread. Just posting a reliable link for economic data.

http://www.martincapital.com/econ_cyc.htm

Over the last 12 months:
* Industrial production is *UP*
* Building permits are *UP*
* Retail sales are *UP*
* Existing home sales are *UP*
* Consumer confidence is slightly *UP*
* Unemployments has been *DOWN* every year since 2001

Draw your own conclusions, and keep them to yourself.

Instead of listening to media spin about how the economy is doing, check out the independent data, and see for yourself. All the leading economic indicators are *POSSITIVE*, and they have been for the last few months. I recomend anyone who cares about economics spend 5 min. a day here, just to stay up to speed.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

You may not see evidence of the the poor economy, but being from a state with a lot of manufacturing labor, I have. Many of my friends' parents and relatives have been laid off. Unemployment may be down, but that doesn't account for the fact that the jobs that are coming into the market are in the service industry. The average pay for workers in the US has continued to fall.

In short, the economy now is good for the few, and bad for the many.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Who has the conspiracy theory now? All the economic indicators are positive. That means the economy is doing well overall, not in a specific market.

The vast majority of those laid off in manufacuring industries due to things such as outsourcing as mechanization soon find other jobs of the same or better quality, further stimulating the economy. You need to know something about the internal mechanics of unemployment before you make those kinds of statements. High-school students dont have that kind of experience.

Average hourly earnings have also been *UP* over the last two years. You have no grounds for your argument.

Once again, this is NOT a debate thread.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

It is indeed a debate thread because I challenge your reading of said indicators. Can you provide any other sources that corroborate this information?


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmkpf/is_200511/ai_n15744532

Do a Google search. This is a well-known, main-stream webpage, used by many economic and investment professionals.

http://www.martincapital.com/chart-pgs/CH_labcs.HTM
We have been on the recovery for the last few years. Not debateable.

Why must you try to derail everything? This was intended to be a non-partizan, and non-political post. Quit trying to turn it into a quagmire.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

mr.trooper said:


> *This is not intended to be a debate thread*. Just posting a reliable link for economic data.
> 
> http://www.martincapital.com/econ_cyc.htm
> 
> ...


Mr. Trooper you shouldn't have given instuctions; Info recieved , thank you :wink:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

mr.trooper said:


> Who has the conspiracy theory now? All the economic indicators are positive. That means the economy is doing well overall, not in a specific market.
> 
> The vast majority of those laid off in manufacuring industries due to things such as outsourcing as mechanization soon find other jobs of the same or better quality, further stimulating the economy. You need to know something about the internal mechanics of unemployment before you make those kinds of statements. High-school students dont have that kind of experience.
> 
> ...


You see, this is the beginnings of mud slinging. This is a textbook example of why the mudslinging is not my fault. I attempted to argue the information, and trooper tries to argue me. He claims that I lack experience and calls me ignorant. If I were to respond now by retailiating, all the blame here would fall on my head. What a ridiculous system that is.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Mr Trooper thanks for the economic measuing stick!! However I agree with MTiger on this one , I keep hearing on the news and even from the president that the economy is strong and growing. I keep seeing in my daily life that it is not and I tend to belive my eyes more than my ears!!


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

MT Wrote:

It is indeed a debate thread because I challenge your reading of said indicators. Can you provide any other sources that corroborate this information?

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Come to Vegas ...

Nevada is the third fastest growing state in the Union and just a walk down Las Vegas BLVD and a trip out to Southern Highlands, Lake Las Vegas and the extreme Northwest of the County will give you your corroboration ... It won't even be from some abscure Web Site or Pop Culture ... you can be your own witness.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Bore.224 said:


> Mr Trooper thanks for the economic measuing stick!! However I agree with MTiger on this one , I keep hearing on the news and even from the president that the economy is strong and growing. I keep seeing in my daily life that it is not and I tend to belive my eyes more than my ears!!


It's all likely a matter of perspective for each individual if they try and ascertain the "health" of the economy where they live.

DecoyDummy uses Vegas as an example....

I'll also tell you to come out to Seattle/Bellevue/Redmond in western Washinton. The economy out here is exploding! I can't believe how many high rise condo's have gone up in the last year! Right now there is a shortage of construction cranes and projects are being delayed. For example, a leading news story on the local TV is the exploding pace of condo sales in Seattle/Bellevue. I just had to sign up for a LOTTERY to have a CHANCE on getting on a list for new condos that haven't even been constructed yet. *3000* people applied for the lottery for *540* available units that won't be available until fall 2007! (Did I mention the condo's range between $460,000 and $6.55 million?) Ohh and the kicker of it all... "winning" that lottery gets you in the door to be "_eligible_" to then enter an online auction lottery (Think eBay) where you get to "_bid_" on a given unit against the other 300 people who "won" the lottery. (All of this is conditional on Pre-Approved Credit) :eyeroll:

Here was a recent article about home sales in the area:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The market is taking longer to ramp up this year, Grady said. People are slower to put homes on the market, partly because of bad weather and distractions from the Super Bowl and the Olympics.

Still, Grady's Bellevue office had 13 offers on a $395,000 home last week, and it recently had eight offers on a $749,000 home, office broker Paula Fortier said. Most homes below $1 million in western Bellevue will receive multiple offers, she said.

On the Eastside, the median price for a home - single-family homes and condos combined - rose 21.9 percent from a year ago to $464,500 . (Median means half the properties sell for more, half for less.)

Closed sales fell 12.1 percent on the Eastside, and pending sales were down 18.6 percent from last February.

Pending sales, those in which offers have been made and accepted, reflect market activity for the previous month. Closed sales tend to reflect the activity of a couple months earlier because it can more than a month for a sale to close.

In Seattle, sales of single-family homes and condos combined rose 8.7 percent, while the median price climbed 13.8 percent to $380,000. 
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Right now the biggest housing news story is all of the apartments in Bellevue and Seattle that are converting to Condos and all the displaced people that are being forced to secure a mortgage or move out and on.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/ ... ndo20.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... fe16e.html

http://eastsidebusiness.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=43

http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/ ... tml/231000

If the economy is any indicator of life out here... it certainly is not cooling off!

Have _your_ housing values *gained 21.9% *in the last year? Try getting into this market as a first time home buyer. You haven't felt pain until you've been bent over the mortgage officer's desk! 

Ryan

.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Ben,
When I stop and mull over your last post, I conclude that is the craziest thing I've ever read!
If you consider the past, when units might sit on the market for months at a time, maybe a fair price would be offered, I mean, that system seemed to be sane. 
What you describe is bananas! (but true)


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

arctic plainsman said:


> Ben,
> When I stop and mull over your last post, I conclude that is the craziest thing I've ever read!
> If you consider the past, when units might sit on the market for months at a time, maybe a fair price would be offered, I mean, that system seemed to be sane.
> What you describe is bananas! (but true)


I hear ya! It is outrageous! I know a couple of my friends who have "flipped" houses/condos a couple of times ...using the increased equity of their previous house as collateral on a new bigger home... this after only being in the home for 2-3 years..

It has cooled off a bit this spring, but late last fall people were needing to offer MORE than the asking price to even be in contention for a house they really wanted! One of my good buddies just bought a really nice house on 3 acres. They offered 14,000 over asking price. They were actually outbid by someone asking 16,500 over asking price, but the owners selected their offer, because they weren't going to tear it completely down and rebuild like the high bidder planned on doing!

:homer: It makes a guy wonder... where in the heck do all of these people get this kind of money? To afford that kind of home, you need a dual income household that makes at least $200,000 a year combined!

<sigh> ok back to the grind... need to go make some money for a down payment...


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Militant_Tiger said:


> mr.trooper said:
> 
> 
> > Who has the conspiracy theory now? All the economic indicators are positive. That means the economy is doing well overall, not in a specific market.
> ...


The thing is, this wasnt a thread for debate: then you burst into the room and proclaimed it a debate, for no other reason that you WANTED it to be one. How rediculous. I WANT you to go away, therfore I proclaim that you no longer exist. Bye! :lol:

And just for reference: Yea, I did call you


> uninformed EDITED FOR CONTENT BY PLAINSMAN


. It wasn't meant as an insult, its just the way it is. When you finish High-school and College with a buisness minor or better, I will stop saying things like that to you.

You have to realize that just becasue things are not going well for YOU personaly or for some people you know, or even for your state, that does not mean the economy is not doing well as a WHOLE, which is the intended scope of the posted indicators as well as the following discussion.



> OK play nice everyone


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> The thing is, this wasnt a thread for debate: then you burst into the room and proclaimed it a debate, for no other reason that you WANTED it to be one. How rediculous. I WANT you to go away, therfore I proclaim that you no longer exist. Bye!


If we simply posted information and had people read it, this would be a list of editorials, not a forum. It is not your choice to make as to whether a thread is a debate or not.



> And just for reference: Yea, I did call you ignorant. It wasn't meant as an insult, its just the way it is. When you finish High-school and College with a buisness minor or better, I will stop saying things like that to you.


Again, you sling mud. You do not know how much I know about economics. you are simply trying to attack my credibility, and then point the finger when the debate turns to personal attacks.



> You have to realize that just becasue things are not going well for YOU personaly or for some people you know, or even for your state, that does not mean the economy is not doing well as a WHOLE, which is the intended scope of the posted indicators as well as the following discussion.


The people elect a president, not big buisness. The president is put in office to serve the people, not big buisness. I've said it before and I will say it again, the economy is great now for a few people and terribly for a great many people.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> It makes a guy wonder... where in the heck do all of these people get this kind of money? To afford that kind of home


For the most part the majority of the people don't have that kind of money. What they usually do is like you said have two incomes and as much as 50-60 percent of their income going into house payments with the mistaken belief that they can plan their future on the selling of that home. Quick sell investors are the one's that drive up the cost by buying and selling after a year or two. It's a bubble and it will burst which will hurt a lot of people.

I bought a home in Port Orchard Washington in the early eighties. The value of the home depreciated yearly and after 4 years and not being able to move to Washington state as planned I sold it for what I owed on it. A very hurtful loss for me. In 1988 I bought another home in the San Francisco Bay area and the first two years the home increased in value by 50%. Then the bubble burst and the house dropped in value below what I had paid. A lot of people were hurt by that but I had no intentions to sell the house so it didn't matter to me. The economy recovered and in 2000 when I sold that home I had a net gain of over 300% what I had paid. It's still climbing out in the Bay area and I can't even afford to buy back the same home I sold if I wanted. Just like up where you are at, you can't purchase a decent home in the Bay area under $500,000 if you could even find one. That bubble will burst again, just a question of when.

For that reason the use of home sales has to been looked at on a national average and not spot location values. Home sales are up in my area also but fortunately it is not out of whack as it was where I once was or where you are now.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Who exacty is the economy "terrible" for??

And as for Big Business ... aren't they the ones who supply most of the Jobs in this country?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Gohon said:


> > It makes a guy wonder... where in the heck do all of these people get this kind of money? To afford that kind of home
> 
> 
> For the most part the majority of the people don't have that kind of money. What they usually do is like you said have two incomes and as much as 50-60 percent of their income going into house payments with the mistaken belief that they can plan their future on the selling of that home. Quick sell investors are the one's that drive up the cost by buying and selling after a year or two. It's a bubble and it will burst which will hurt a lot of people.
> ...


You bring up some great points Gohon..... Some good things to chew on.... Heck I'm sure alot of the Fargo guys can relate to some of this too... I heard that home sales there are crazy and it is driving people out of Fargo and into the surrounding county...

Ryan

.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

People who don't want to work, maybe..........or people who would rather rent, maybe some other nay sayers. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> > mr.trooper said:
> ...


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

He had no place in attempting to discredit me as a person. That is where mudslinging begins. He could have proven my supposed incompetence by arguing the facts, but he instead chose to attack me. I refuse to be the scapegoat for personal attacks when people like Mr Trooper do their best to instigate such things. If you want to end the attacks, consider nipping them in the bud.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> He had no place in attempting to discredit me as a person. That is where mudslinging begins. He could have proven my supposed incompetence by arguing the facts, but he instead chose to attack me. *I refuse to be the scapegoat for personal attacks when people like Mr Trooper do their best to instigate such things.* If you want to end the attacks, consider nipping them in the bud.


 

MT, you KNOW that's not true you INSTIGATE and ATTACK more than anyone on here! uke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The economy must be doing good here in Jamestown also. I live out of town so purchased an emergency generator. Within days (October) I called an electrician to set up the hook up for it. I am still waiting for him to show up. He has had so much work he hasn't been able to make it.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfe ... s_06282004



> Just as the jobless recovery appears to be solidly behind us, a new problem has emerged: declining real wages. In fact, real wages for May fell back to the same level as November 2001, the month when the last recession ended.


http://www.jobwatch.org/

Wages are *down*.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_snapshots_06282004
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How much do you make a hour?


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