# What shapes a dogs personality?



## NDMALLARD (Mar 9, 2002)

I get a new pup last weekend and let me tell you I forgot how much work it is to take care of a new puppy. My other dog is 8 and I didn't get her until she was 7 months old (from My dad's Kennel) so I haven't been through the puppy stuff for some time.

After one week this pup seems to be adjusting very nicely and I have high hopes for her. My old dog basically trained herself and I doubt I will ever have one again that has her combination of hunting skills and social good manners. She may be the politest dog (unless you are a wounded duck, goose or pheasant) I have ever seen.

My question is do you guys think my young dog will pick up the mannerisms of my other dog? I hope (well actually pray  ) that she does. In my opinion, all the training stuff (sit, fetch, etc) is easy if you have decent bloodlines and time and patience, but some dogs just are obnoxious to be around. Everybody knows what I am talking about if they have hunted with a few different people.

I will expose this pup to many people and many situations over the next 6 months. I am no expert but I do believe the more positive experiences a puppy has in different situations the better my chnaces of having a good partner for 10-12 years.

Let me know your thoughts.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2009)

Your old dog had it's manners taught by the person who had it before you if you didn't get her till she was 7 months old. I don't think dogs really learn from other dogs either. I have raised a lot of pups in the past 10 years and the best advice I have is *be consistant*. If the dog is doing something cute but when she gets old it won't be correct her right away.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Just like people, they are born with a personality.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2009)

Born with personality yes....not born with manners. Manners are taught by MAN.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Congrats on the new pup! Where are the pictures? :lol:

Your dog is who he is...and is most likely to take on personalities from its parents, if it were getting influence from anywhere.

Good luck!

Mike


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Some dogs have great personality and some dogs are boring just like people. I do think that puppies learn from other dogs. Casey's dogs was always around female dogs and his is a male and he now squats when he pee's.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2009)

Wow I guess all this time I have been training dogs for nothing then??????


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I think they take on the personality of their master. I've had many different types of dogs through out my life and they all had the same personality, (not my observation). All my dogs end up calm and very communicative. :beer:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Dave get a EP pup out of hot field trial stock :lol: calm goes out the window :lol:

environment (kind treatment and good consistant training)+ breeding (genetics) and you have it covered IMO


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I love it when sh*T goes out the window!!! :lol:


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

The greatest factor in shaping a dog is us. They will pick up more bad things from an old dog than good things. Much of it has to do with breeding, the rest with how the pup is socialized, exposed, and raised.

You lucked out with your old dog. With this one, I'd buy the three dvd set from Fowl Dwags and follow it. Don't wait too long. You have to be educated as well as the dog. :beer:


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Personality - They are definitely born with it. Some are outgoing and some are shy and timid right out of the chute. Yes, we as trainers can bring them along to meet our minimum requirements in a dog, but the dog's instinctual tendencies will always be there. We as trainers will always be challenged by a dog's natural tendencies - and they all have different tendencies because they all have different personalities.

Some say that the most important time in molding a dog's character is in its first eight weeks. Yet, given the same litter, it is absolutely amazing how dissimilar the personalities of the pups can be at times.

I have seen entire Labrador field trial litters raised the same, go to very similar homes, and many end up with the same professional trainer. The end result is that more than half of the litter does not make the cut. Usually because the dogs are too timid, or too excitable, or too something else - even though they were raised exactly like their litter mates.

Nope, training is only 49% of equation - never underestimate the extreme importance of the other 51%, it will more than make up for all the mistakes we as trainers make.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

hydro870 said:


> I have seen entire Labrador field trial litters raised the same, go to very similar homes, and many end up with the same professional trainer. The end result is that more than half of the litter does not make the cut. Usually because the dogs are too timid, or too excitable, or too something else - even though they were raised exactly like their litter mates.


Have to disagree with this. The biggest reason dogs get washed out or don't make the cut in field trials is because they *can't mark good enough*. There are many crazy high dogs in the FT game and they can do very well with the right trainer. I have heard and seen some stuff at FT's where dogs will creep up to 20-40 ft from the handler and still pin the marks. Also seen dogs that can't sit still in holding blinds, tear over them, and beat the handler to the line 90% of the time, but they still win because they can mark better than the other dogs.


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Just sayin' what I have seen with dogs from the same litter on the same pro truck. Yes, many dogs get washed out because they can't mark well enough. You are correct, marking is not what I would call a personality trait. But, don't kid yourself; just as many dogs are washed out because they are either too soft, or lack focus, or too noisy, or just don't like birds enough, or just simply not that bright.

For example, from the same litter of FC/AFC Cosmo pups, I have seen some that border on lunatics (noisy fire-breathing bird crazy psychos) and other pups that found birds to be less than interesting - this from the same litter! Amazing. Unfortunately, I had the latter.....

Hydro870 - who will take the better dog over the better trainer any day of the week.


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## Guest (Feb 10, 2009)

If you add up all possible reasons to wash a dog they may out number the dogs that can't mark. I would add that the same dog with lack of drive, low prey drive, and lack of focus also couldn't mark. I have had enough dogs to know that when you get one that can flat out mark you do what ever it takes to make them succesfull.


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Yip.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

hydro870 said:


> Just sayin' what I have seen with dogs from the same litter on the same pro truck. Yes, many dogs get washed out because they can't mark well enough. You are correct, marking is not what I would call a personality trait. But, don't kid yourself; just as many dogs are washed out because they are either too soft, or lack focus, or too noisy, or just don't like birds enough, or just simply not that bright.
> 
> For example, from the same litter of FC/AFC Cosmo pups, I have seen some that border on lunatics (noisy fire-breathing bird crazy psychos) and other pups that found birds to be less than interesting - this from the same litter! Amazing. Unfortunately, I had the latter.....
> 
> Hydro870 - who will take the better dog over the better trainer any day of the week.


Hey chad how are you and Fonzy doing? Did he stay home this winter or is he down south basking in the sun??

I agree, some personalities are molded by us but I think alot more has to do with the genetic make up of the dog and I also agree there can be huge differences in personalities between litter mates.

I'll use Bodeys litter for example 9 puppys

2- level headed (not mine)
2- washed by "good pro's" for lack of drive
5- Bird crazy fools (mines one of the 5)

I find it hard to believe that you could go from one extreme to the other, but it happens. I almost picked one of those washouts as a pup because I thought he had the BEST PERSONALITY at the time.

I wouldn't consider Marking a Personality trait, but Mike is right, if a dog can't mark he is not going to make it, but I also have seen some dogs that were very good markers as young dogs, but could not handle the pressure through transition work or didn't have enough drive to handle the every day training, or wasn't crazy about water. Chad I remember you telling me something like " A good trial dog has to see water no different than land" I may not have understood it at the time but I sure do now.

I know of one female out of patton that I really liked as a young dog going through basics on Ricks truck that was smart as a whip, could really mark and could handle very well for her age, but as the timeline progressed she got lazy, she couldn't handle the transition stage and really wasn't enjoying what she was doing. Bottom line she didn't have the drive needed to be the type of dog the owner was hoping for. Could have a different trainer with a different approach had better success? Maybe some but it boils down to some dogs have it and some dogs don't.

Some obviously have the total package (brains, skill, and the right training)

Hopfully most of us end up with a dog that is fun to train and hunt and has a good day once in the while at the line when it counts.

Todd- Looking forward to getting my dog back, spring and training again.


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## NDMALLARD (Mar 9, 2002)

Labguy23,

you said manners are taught by man; I do belive that is mostly true, but some manners or mannerisms a dog exhibits it seems they just can't control.

as an example:

One of my best hunting buddies old lab was a tremendous dog great on ducks and pheasants but he was so obnoxious to be with in the vehicle and duck blind. In the vehicle he would whine from the minute he got in the vehicle to the time you got to the field because he was so excited. In the duck blind he would whine and actually bark as he saw the flock get closer. My buddy punched him, shocked him and yelled at him for years --never did a thing but got him sore knuckles. Heck the dog would still whine and avoid a right cross at the same time. My dad runs a lot of labs with pro trainers out of his kennel and I am not sure if they are judged on whining or not but when a flock of greenheads is cupped and committed at 50 yds and your dog is barking that is not a good thing.

I am a hunter not a trial dog person. I have taught my old dog basic hand signals and how to run a line (although she always curves to the right so on long blinds so I have to play a slice when I line her up) and the most important thing I think a bird hunter can teach a dog - what it means when I point at the ground and say dead bird. She knows that something is down and she should start looking where I pointed and work out from there until her nose tells her where to go. All this comes with experience and trust from your dog. Once they figure out that they are in a partnership with the guy who carries the "thunder-stick that makes the thing I want fall from the sky" and then I get to get the thing in my mouth you have truely developed a partner.

Good Lord I have a bunch of work to get done before hunting season 

Thanks for all the tips


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

My Golden could mark 12 birds and fetch them in the order I wanted or just go get them 2-3 at a time. Is that considered good? It sure worked for me!


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## DodgeLynn (Aug 28, 2008)

buckseye said:


> I think they take on the personality of their master. I've had many different types of dogs through out my life and they all had the same personality, (not my observation). All my dogs end up calm and very communicative. :beer:


Calm and Communicative is so not the discriptors that came to my mind Bucks!

:lol:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Calm and Communicative is so not the discriptors that came to my mind Bucks!


How about fast and furious??? :lol:


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Keep your dirty talk to the BP you two! :lol:


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## DodgeLynn (Aug 28, 2008)

buckseye said:


> > Calm and Communicative is so not the discriptors that came to my mind Bucks!
> 
> 
> How about fast and furious??? :lol:


Closer! :wink:


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## DodgeLynn (Aug 28, 2008)

USAlx50 said:


> Keep your dirty talk to the BP you two! :lol:


Jee whiz, thanks eh Dad.


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## ndwaterfowler (May 22, 2005)

Good thread! Lots of good info here as I will be in the market for a pup by this time next year.


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Too funny! I always get a kick out of watching people and their dogs interact - myself included!

The two best are:

1. A really soft gentle dog with a very patient gentle-natured trainer (usually a female). It is amazing how far people like this progress these types of dogs. I definitely would have ruined dogs like these because I just don't have the patience. There is a lady in the North Dakota Retriever Club that has this lab named Joey that is quite soft. But she is the perfect trainer for him. I would bet they have their Master Hunter title this summer (already have 3 passes). I also new a gal with a golden retriever named Ticket that was a very very soft dog. But she was a very patient trainer and took things slow&#8230;.small corrections here&#8230;.small corrections there. Over time they reached their goal - Master title. Awesome - but exceedingly boring/painful to watch!!!

The best is:

2. A really high dog with an anal-retentive trainer. FYI per wikipedia - the term anal-retentive (or anally retentive, anal retentive), commonly abbreviated to "anal", is used conversationally to describe a person with such attention to detail that the obsession becomes an annoyance to others, and can be carried out to the detriment of the anal-retentive person. This combination of dog and trainer is entertaining to watch and quite hilarious - they are truly the perfect match!

Hey Todd, the Fonz is with Yozamp for 4 months, comes back end of April. Wanted to keep him cooped up in the basement this winter, but just knew he was too much dog to let sit around all winter. Maybe next year when he is a little older. I can't wait to get him back and start training myself again! Hopefully this summer I can finally get him QAA......time will tell. Wish I had a dog to run at the CMRC informals - maybe next winter.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

Chad,
Any idea on the price of chopper x Edge litter??

Seen it listed on RTF, man would I like one of those pups.



> Wish I had a dog to run at the CMRC informals - maybe next winter


 Me to...

Acually I do have a dog to run this weekend, I'm watching a buddys Charlie dog for the next couple of weeks, and he asked me to run her fo him. She has plenty of go when she is running but is by far the most mellow laid back 2 year old in the house I have ever seen.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

BROWNDOG said:


> Chad,
> Any idea on the price of chopper x Edge litter??
> 
> Seen it listed on RTF, man would I like one of those pups.


No kidding!

That Joey dog that Chad mentioned is awesome as well. I think he is about as perfect as it gets for someone who wants a hunting dog that is mild mannered but can flat out get it done in the field. Hes just out of a couple JH's IIRC. Didn't he get 2nd or 3rd in the NDRC derby as well as doing very well in his MH tests so far?


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

I would love to have an Edge x Chopper pup also. But out of my price range. Nine pups, I know that 4 are already sold for sure....maybe more by now. They are $2,500 - each!!! Maybe the EIC carriers won't sell and the price will drop for those pups, not sure? You can check out the litter at http://www.seasideretrievers.com/

I would think that Edge will get her FC title in 2009, she has a win and needs something like 2 more points +/-. She was a great duck dog when I had her. I remember her first time out hunting and I managed to bring down a big old honker. She went right out there and picked it up without any hesitation and ran it all the way back to me. She never dropped it once and never stopped to get a better grip like so many young dogs do. Mind you, this from a 55 pound female with a danty little snout and short legs, it was her first time hunting, and first goose she ever touched. New situations and concepts never seemed to cause her any concern. I think that's what makes her such a great trial dog as well.

I have psychological difficulty paying more than a grand for a pup, but that's just me. These Edge pups seem to be selling at the current market value for hot field trial prospects. I know of a $3,500 litter from about 3 years ago; and a $5,000 litter prior to that. FC Candlewoods HiRoller RealDeal "Regi" was a $5,000 pup.

Joey is a nice dog for sure. I know he got a Jam in the Derby at CMRC last year because I happened to be judging that one. He got 4th at the spring NDRC Derby. Joey is Cathryn's first competition dog and is 100% amateur trained - by her. Very impressive for sure! He also has 3 Master Hunter passes - should have his MH title in 2009.

There are lots of nice NDRC dogs right now. I think I can say with some certainty that the best hunt test dog in the club at the moment is a dog named Flap - owned by Dave Lybeck. Flap qualified for and passed the 2008 Master National. He didn't have a single handle for the entire event. That dog can flat out mark - I have lost count of the times I have seen him pin birds between the paws. Wish my dog could mark like that!!!!


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

hydro870 said:


> I also new a gal with a golden retriever named Ticket that was a very very soft dog. But she was a very patient trainer and took things slow&#8230;.small corrections here&#8230;.small corrections there. Over time they reached their goal - Master title. Awesome - but exceedingly boring/painful to watch!!!


ahhh...I remember Susan and Ticket. I think all the gunners groaned when they saw Ticket come to the line. You could eat your lunch and take a bathroom break in the time it took Ticket to sniff out a double in a Senior test.


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## NDWirehair (Dec 22, 2008)

Your new puppy will have the disposition of the breed. If your puppy has an older dog to watch, it will mimic, pick up habits from the older dog. Your puppy will also learn from you....Obedience, patience, etc.... If you keep your dog in a box and use it as a tool, that's all you will have. If your puppy developes around a family, is used to constant discipline, is part of the family, that's what you'll have.
I have a 4 yr old GWP. Sleeps with us, licks my face and plays with our cat. I am also very aware that she will kill the neighbors dog or cat if I'm not watching her. Makes for some interesting family get togethers.


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