# 1407 in Senate Natural Resource Committee next Thursday



## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

HB 1407 - (Representatives D. Johnson, Hofstad, Weisz; Senators Taylor, Oehlke) - Effective through July 31, 2013 nonresidents would be allowed to hunt in Richland, Sargent, Benson, Ramsey and Towner counties during the early September Canada goose season without counting against their 14-day waterfowl license. The Game and Fish Department must track the number of resident and nonresident goose hunters and the number of geese taken by county, and report findings to legislative management by Sept. 1, 2012. Passed house 67-26. *SNRC to hear 3/17, 9:30 a.m.*

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If you want this bill to pass, do nothing; it will pass.

If you want this bill to fail then make your contacts to:

Email addresses for the Senate Natural Resources Committee.

Stanley W. Lyson , Chairman ; David Hogue, Vice Chairman ; Randy Burckhard , Layton Freborg , Mac Schneider , Connie Triplett , Gerald Uglem

[email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ;
[email protected] ; [email protected]

Be courteous and be sure to add your full name and address.


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## Augusta (Feb 2, 2011)

Dick is right, its go time guys, lets do it!


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## DLT (Apr 14, 2003)

HB1407. As a resident, this is one of those bills that really doesn't bring about a lot of emotion, since it only deals with the earliest part of the goose season and is limited to just a few counties. Not much of concern for most of us?? Maybe. But you had better walk this one through. I would suspect that outfitters and fee hunting interests working thru local chambers are the major promoters of this bill. Since only a very small number of kill permits were applied for and issued in the counties of Benson, Ramsey, and Towner by active farmers there, one would assume that goose depredation is not an enormous problem in those counties. HB1407 has two interesting points in it. First, the bill expires July 31, 2013 ( 2 seasons). The early nonresident goose hunting bill for Sargent and Richland counties also had a 2 year sunset clause, but the clause was later removed leaving the bill in place. Secondly, HB1407 mandates the NDGF to "&#8230;track the number of resident and nonresident goose hunters and the number of geese taken by county. The department shall report its findings to the legislative management by September 1, 2012." The report could be a win-win situation for supporting nonresidents during the early season. If the NDGF report shows few nonresident hunters and few geese taken, then there would be no reason not to continue as is and allow nonresidents to hunt during future early seasons. If the report, however, shows a larger number of hunters with a substantial number of geese taken, then a recommendation could easily be made to continue with the nonresident early goose season because the population of local geese may need to be reduced by more hunters. But, the bigger question remains: is this expansion of opening up a few more counties to nonresident hunting in the early Canada goose season just a preview of what's to come soon, i.e., making this a statewide law in the years ahead? If so, HB1407 then needs more than just a casual look. Despite the best efforts to defeat this bill, it appears likely the Senate will follow the vote in the House. Yet, your legislative contact CAN make a difference. So, either make some contacts now, or let it go by the wayside.


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## Augusta (Feb 2, 2011)

DLT said:


> HB1407. As a resident, this is one of those bills that really doesn't bring about a lot of emotion, since it only deals with the earliest part of the goose season and is limited to just a few counties. Not much of concern for most of us?? Maybe. But you had better walk this one through. I would suspect that outfitters and fee hunting interests working thru local chambers are the major promoters of this bill. Since only a very small number of kill permits were applied for and issued in the counties of Benson, Ramsey, and Towner by active farmers there, one would assume that goose depredation is not an enormous problem in those counties. HB1407 has two interesting points in it. First, the bill expires July 31, 2013 ( 2 seasons). The early nonresident goose hunting bill for Sargent and Richland counties also had a 2 year sunset clause, but the clause was later removed leaving the bill in place. Secondly, HB1407 mandates the NDGF to "&#8230;track the number of resident and nonresident goose hunters and the number of geese taken by county. The department shall report its findings to the legislative management by September 1, 2012." The report could be a win-win situation for supporting nonresidents during the early season. If the NDGF report shows few nonresident hunters and few geese taken, then there would be no reason not to continue as is and allow nonresidents to hunt during future early seasons. If the report, however, shows a larger number of hunters with a substantial number of geese taken, then a recommendation could easily be made to continue with the nonresident early goose season because the population of local geese may need to be reduced by more hunters. But, the bigger question remains: is this expansion of opening up a few more counties to nonresident hunting in the early Canada goose season just a preview of what's to come soon, i.e., making this a statewide law in the years ahead? If so, HB1407 then needs more than just a casual look. Despite the best efforts to defeat this bill, it appears likely the Senate will follow the vote in the House. Yet, your legislative contact CAN make a difference. So, either make some contacts now, or let it go by the wayside.


Very well said DLT. It's bills like this that are the beginning of the end for hunting as the ND residents know it. Everyone needs to realize this and take action today!


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

So you really think that by opening the three counties around Devils Lake is going to cause traffic jams?? First, there is very little if any posting during the early season up here. Second, when I have been out during the early season, four out of five times out we never hear another shot. Seems that there are some voices on here that have never set foot up here during the early season much less hunted here but know whats good for everybody concerned.
I spoke to a couple of the guides and they couldnt care less about this bill as far as there guiding is concerned so that argument wont hold water either. Seems funny though, since Ransom and Sargeant counties have had this same deal, we havent heard the horror stories that some seem to think will follow if this bill is passed.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

The bill was put in, supposedly, because there are too many geese causing crop damage. Supposedly.

So only 8 farmers requested kill permits? Give us a break. If it was a problem there would have been a lot more requests.

If it was a problem hunting would be wide open season long. Its not.

This bill is just a ram-and-jam to further commercialize waterfowl hunting for the pay to play boys. Do Not Pass.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Can a person just walk in and request a permit?? Or is it a bit more difficult than that? Do you think maybe they are being taken out when seen eating walking down a soybean row or corn row? When you were here hunting last? How many times were you turned down? Where is all this posted land?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

A farmer plans his crop planting a year ahead. He buys his inputs far ahead of needing them. He sells his crop a year ahead.

And can't get himself to call NDGF ahead of time for a kill permit? If he thinks about preplanning at all then he should start the process in advance. The weakest excuse is that it took too long to get the kill permit.

Instead of *****ing about too many geese and not enough hunters to kill them, try this:










Or this:








And NDGF will mail them postage paid.

Or this one will even pay the landowner:










It just takes a little planning. It worked on my farm. For the people that are bothered by surplus wildlife, why don't they ever put a FREE ad on Nodak or one of the other outdoor sites asking for hunters? It would take all of a minute to ask for sportsmen to show up. Date, time, place,....done deal. Hasn't happened yet.

Instead they want a law change. :eyeroll: HB 1407 needs to die. It is the most bogus hunting bill yet.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> For the people that are bothered by surplus wildlife, why don't they ever put a FREE ad on Nodak or one of the other outdoor sites asking for hunters? It would take all of a minute to ask for sportsmen to show up. Date, time, place,....done deal


Because internet scouting is not allowed on this site. :rollin: :rollin:


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## Springerguy (Sep 10, 2003)

g/o,

I wouldn't agree...I've found some very good spots to hunt here in the internet....one place was east of Wahpeton about 10 miles and another spot about 20 miles north of Pembina - can always count on good information here :roll:


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

thats what i thought


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## mymanimal (Feb 1, 2009)

Springerguy said:


> g/o,
> 
> I wouldn't agree...I've found some very good spots to hunt here in the internet....one place was east of Wahpeton about 10 miles and another spot about 20 miles north of Pembina - can always count on good information here :roll:


Hope you got yourself a MN license if you were out hunting east of Wahpeton! wink wink nod nod There are a few landowners with BIG geese problems in Sargeant county, BUT this bill is ridiculous. I am sending my emails right now. There are other ways and this is the proverbial "foot in the door". Slam it shut guys!


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Tell your hunting buddies to contact these Senators about 1407. The more the better.

Stanley W. Lyson , Chairman ; David Hogue, Vice Chairman ; Randy Burckhard ,
Layton Freborg , Mac Schneider , Connie Triplett , Gerald Uglem

[email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ;
[email protected] ;
[email protected] ; [email protected]


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Oh believe me,,,I already have!


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## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

I go up to the DL area every september to either do some work at a duck camp and then we stay there on our way to SK. I never hear or see any hunters and see a lot of fields with geese in them. Of the outfitters I know I haven't heard of them ever having a group up for the early season goose. I know one guy out of dozens and dozens I know who hunt ND who has ever been there for early goose and that was in sargeant/richland...they shot a few geese, sweated their nuts off and said they will probably not go up there again. Between our camp and another one near us who happen to be friends, I can almost guarantee that not one of the 10 guys involved will make it up for early honkers. I think you guys might be overreacting a little bit on this one. It's too bad because I have heard farmers complain about geese but am yet to see a spread whenever I have been up there. The guys that do go up are going to do well because basically all the land I see that gets posted is around duck and firearms deer opener.
Dick Monson, your dog is really ugly.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

BB said:


> Dick Monson, your dog is really ugly.


Thank you, he is that. Looked even worse as a pup. A GWP will never win a beauty contest. Anyway.....

If farmers at DL complained about too many geese and not enough hunters, does anybody think that just maybe they need to kill as many as possible season long? Not just the early season? :eyeroll:

They did not think up 1407 to thin out geese. Their actions or I should say inactions prove it.

Some years ago a rancher at the Hawks Nest had too many deer. He put an article in the paper that if deer hunters would hunt his ranch opening weekend he'd feed them free chile. Worked like a charm. He wanted hunters to thin the deer and he let them hunt. He was proactive.

You aren't going see any "Hunters Welcome" signs in those 3 counties for waterfowl season because it would cut into the fee-lease hunting. Look in the PLOTS book and you'll see living proof of how few acres are signed up to get rid of geese. The words do not match the action. It is all about money and selling wildlife.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> It is all about money and selling wildlife


.

That's about what I told them when I called to leave a message about five minutes ago. If they want to turn deer and goose hunting into a private business then overpopulation is simply one of their business expenses. This just pokes the average Joe in the eye again.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

If they are selling the resouce, there must have been somebody from the guides association there to testify. Right? No? Thats because they guides are NOT pushing for this! 
Comparing deer to geese? Priceless
They will not leave the limit at five the entire season because of lesser Canadas. 
Once again your information is useless and has no foundation!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Comparing deer to geese? Priceless


You could compare any species that they try make money from, then cry when they have depredation. No one was saying a bird and a mammal are physiologically or morphologically comparable. You did understand that right? Where did you come up with the thing about guides? I didn't see that.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Dick Monson said:


> The bill was put in, supposedly, because there are too many geese causing crop damage. Supposedly.
> 
> So only 8 farmers requested kill permits? Give us a break. If it was a problem there would have been a lot more requests.
> 
> ...


Now, do you see it???


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Now, do you see it???


No. There is a lot more to commercialized hunting than just guides. I don't see where guides were mentioned.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Oye!! Then explain how this is selling a resource? More times than not on a Saturday morning while in the decoys, we never hear another shot from any direction. And no, it is not because all the land is posted OR leased. It is because there are not hunters in the field. The bill would only allow non residents to hunt the early season without giving up there two weeks during the regular season. Your arguments are baseless that it is only selling to the highest bidder or the pay as you go guys. I am beginning to see who is against this as a group but cant see what the agenda is.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Why are you for it?
I don't like it because I see it as simply a beginning, a hole in the dike so to speak. If this would end at this point I wouldn't be so alarmed, but for the past few years the legislature has passed anything that makes a buck. It started with Pheasant Gate, and has continued. 
Your talking about my home area and how much is unposted. I have to drive for hours to find unposted, am I going blind or something? Often land that isn't posted has a sign go up within hours of geese using the field. Part of the problem I think is people have seen so many posted signs that they don't go up and try in the spring. If these farmers really are having problems a great place to start is post a wanted hunters on nodakoutdoors. Posting a wanted hunters is not equivalent to a guy doing internet scouting. One asks where to hunt and the other would be saying I am having damage, please come and help. There are hundreds of real friendships waiting to happen out there.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Good question....why are you in favor of this.The farmers up there evidently don't have much of a problem if only 8 of them in 3 counties ask for permits in the spring. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Show me proof that only 8 applied. I found that 52 applied. But maybe Dick has better resources.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Good question....why are you in favor of this.The farmers up there evidently don't have much of a problem if only 8 of them in 3 counties ask for permits in the spring. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


Good God people!!! Step back away from your computer,,,,,I found 52 applications for permits to get rid of problem geese. Apparently Dick monsen has all the answers. So because he is anti Lake Region he is the answer??


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Kreil, Randy L. 
To: Dick Monson 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:41 AM
Subject: RE: spring goose permits

Dick - we issued a total of 127 Canada goose depredation permits in the state last year. *In the three counties mentioned in the bill the numbers are as follows: Ramsey - 4, Towner - 2, and Benson - 2.* We have heard people mention they know some geese are being killed without permits which would be against the law. RK
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4+2+2=8


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

So what's your point? Again, what is the process in applying for a permit? And once again, when the last time you were up here during the early season, how much posted/leased land did you encounter?
Do you really think that by opening up early Canada season to non residents it will be a constant over pressure issue? Yes there are geese being killed without permits. Whay should someone "need" to protect their property? I am not for it but it is happening and that is how they feel. They arent going to send invitations out to you to come hunt. The early season was to target resident canada geese so the five bird limit is only good for that period to protect the lesser canada population.
With Devils Lake rise this year forecasted at 3 feet, there will be approximately 30,000 acres less to worry about. You seem to be worried about the three counties in question but seem to have little knowledge of the area.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Hunter, how would this work:
I know people call in from out west when they have a problem with antelope. They call the game and fish and have their name put on a list. I would guess the game and fish would not want to become a directory for hunters, but one of the organizations like United Sportsmen could have a website where they leave their name. My guess is they would never get a call, but at least for those who are serious about goose depredation it would be a resource for them.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Here is the problem, there are just not the hunters up here at that time of year. I am not particularily fond of fighting skeeters in the goose blind either but I do it anyway. Usually if there are four of us we will kill our 20 geese in less than an hour. Invitations can be sent out to every waterfowl hunter in North Dakota but it isnt going to produce hunters on the ground. The argument that all the land is posted or leased is a bald faced lie. Nothing else. The little land that is posted in August is easily accessed by asking but that is very little land. Closer to the resident opener the posted signs will start to appear but that has been happening for decades. The people standing up and spouting off about this have never been up here to see for themselves. We will see how it plays out.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Hunter, the south side of the lake is my home area. Your right about the posted signs, but when geese start using an area the posted signs go up. My relatives have about the only unposted land in the area. An outfitter on either side of them doesn't like them not posting their land.
I think the outfitters are part of the problem. I hunted government land out west, but a landowner let me drive through his property. The second day I was there I was having coffee with him and he had a phone call. I may be old but my ears are not that bad. He was asking his neighbor if the guy on the red Polaris was hunting his property. He said no that I was just a drive through. He said he shouldn't allow that either, because he had to make a living. He had two bowhunters that week and four coming in the following week. So not only do they try control hunters, but they try control their fellow landowners. I think that same thing is happening at Devils Lake, and I know it happens to my relatives.
If 90% of the land is unposted in August but the geese are on the other 10% it doesn't make them very accessible. I only shoot a couple of waterfowl a year, so it has little affect on me. I also have access to at least 50,000 acres so I debate these points not for myself, but for my fellow hunters.


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## Augusta (Feb 2, 2011)

Plainsman said:


> Hunter, the south side of the lake is my home area. Your right about the posted signs, but when geese start using an area the posted signs go up. My relatives have about the only unposted land in the area. An outfitter on either side of them doesn't like them not posting their land.
> I think the outfitters are part of the problem. I hunted government land out west, but a landowner let me drive through his property. The second day I was there I was having coffee with him and he had a phone call. I may be old but my ears are not that bad. He was asking his neighbor if the guy on the red Polaris was hunting his property. He said no that I was just a drive through. He said he shouldn't allow that either, because he had to make a living. He had two bowhunters that week and four coming in the following week. So not only do they try control hunters, but they try control their fellow landowners. I think that same thing is happening at Devils Lake, and I know it happens to my relatives.
> If 90% of the land is unposted in August but the geese are on the other 10% it doesn't make them very accessible. I only shoot a couple of waterfowl a year, so it has little affect on me. I also have access to at least 50,000 acres so I debate these points not for myself, but for my fellow hunters.


Well said Plainsman, we have the same experience in my neck of the woods.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Hunter_58346 said:


> Here is the problem, there are just not the hunters up here at that time of year. I am not particularily fond of fighting skeeters in the goose blind either but I do it anyway. Usually if there are four of us we will kill our 20 geese in less than an hour. Invitations can be sent out to every waterfowl hunter in North Dakota but it isnt going to produce hunters on the ground. The argument that all the land is posted or leased is a bald faced lie. Nothing else. The little land that is posted in August is easily accessed by asking but that is very little land. Closer to the resident opener the posted signs will start to appear but that has been happening for decades. The people standing up and spouting off about this have never been up here to see for themselves. We will see how it plays out.


Agreed, hunting ground is accessible in early season. That is not the point. There are too many geese. Posting in the regular season contributes to too many geese. Posting gives them sanctuary, it attracts them and conditions them to stay. That action sets the stage for the next years problem.

It is the regular season that draws the largest number of hunters and creates the smallest amount of access by posting.

The way 1407 is written is like demanding fire prevention in August and opposing fire prevention the other 11 months. :eyeroll:

If the landowners in those 3 counties really have a problem, they need to get the kill of geese increased in every month possible. Not just the early season. Those landowners are unwilling to do so. Leasing-pay hunting feed that situation. The last thing lease-pay hunting wants is open access.

So 1407 as written makes no sense. It needs to die.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

So what you are proposing is that if a farmer has problems with Canada geese, he shouldn't post his land? Or leave the limit at five season long? The early season was to be used as tool to reduce the population of resident Canadas. last year there were some that couldnt even fly on August 15. What outline would you offer for an option?


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

If


> the landowners in those 3 counties really have a problem, they need to get the kill of geese increased in every month possible. Not just the early season. Those landowners are unwilling to do so. Leasing-pay hunting feed that situation. The last thing lease-pay hunting wants is open access.


Dick... do you understand the reasoning for the early season and it's limits ?..... I think you do but here is a reminder. It is to reduce the population of RESIDENT geese. Increasing the harvest later in the season would have only limited impact because those harvested are as likely to migrators as locals. The reduction in limits in the regular season is to help protect some of the less populated subspecies included in that migratory group. Increasing the limits during regular season might reduce the local poulation but it will aslo reduce the numbers that we don't want impacted..... It's a balancing act to manage the population as a whole.

I also agree that hunter pressure during the early season is minimal. There are just too many other things going on. Many guys are still concentrating on fishing or bowhunting. Farmers are getting into harvest, people are squeezing in their family vacations before school starts.

And in regards to depreciation permits I suspect the number is low because the farmers just don't have the time to sit on a field for a day or half (multiple times) waiting for the birds to drop in so they can shoot 2 or 3.......... especially when the prime time for doing so coinciedes with the prime time for many farming activities.


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## Ima870man (Oct 29, 2003)

I have stated it before that the limit should be increased until the first week in September around the time that the Missouri River Zone closes. This way one could hunt the better part of the early season having the opportunity to harvest more geese during a single outing. Eight would be great for a limit.

Dakshooter2:
Here is some more info you should probably know about:

NDGF currently issues spring permits to farmers to kill up to 30 geese per permit. The farmer can designate any 5 people to do the shooting. The farmer can get more permits. NDGF is leaning over backwards to accommodate goose depredation problems now and the legislature should not be micro-managing NDGF efforts. If anything raise the early season limit.

edit: I contacted NDGF, asking how many kill permits were requested and issued in these 3 counties.

NDGF issued a total of 127 Canada goose depredation permits in the state last year. In the three counties mentioned in the bill the numbers are as follows: Ramsey - 4, Towner - 2, and Benson - 2. From Dick Monson Post about 1407 a few threads down.

Ima870man
Jeff


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Hunter 58346, please answer this. Why are you in support of this bill?

You attack everybody's reasons for opposing it, but fail to mention your reasons for supporting it.

Enlighten us.

Thank you.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Now that I got the above post out of the way, here are my thoughts on the issue. You claim the DL area isn't hit hard for early season. Ok, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm from an area NE of you, and used to go back home all the time for early season. Pressure was minimal in that area too, during early season. With that said, pressure during early season where I'm at now IS NOT minimal. Far from it. Guess what, land is posted up pretty dang good. I've even ran into a few guys who try charging for access during early season. I just laugh at them. They hold soooo many geese on their land, and no doubt sustain some crop damage from it. Yet nobody hunts their land until regular season starts and the NR's dish out the access fee. I wonder, do these same guys ***** about goose depradation?

Another thing to think about. I bet you enjoy your early season don't you? For me it is the most "relaxed" time of the year to get my fair share of goose hunting in. Sounds like it is for you too. So what happens when your area gets opened up to NR during early season? Say bye bye to your "relaxing" hunting. Better plan on getting up an hour earlier to beat guys to "your" field. Also, what do you suppose the pay to play guys will do when they see all these hunters running around during early season? The posters will go up earlier and the money begging will begin sooner than normal......Have fun!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, why do I oppose this bill?????? Because I see it as a foot in the door bill. Sure, it's not directly affecting me at this time, but it may open it up too further down the road. What happens when the entire state opens the doors for NR's during early season??? I know a few guys in SD that would be able to answer that for you pretty well. But they are no longer on this board. The answer though, is not pleasant.

So, I will ask again. Why do you support this bill? It will only bite you in the butt man.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

This year will be my 47th year of waterfowling, God willing. I have hunted through the scares of how bad it will be if we dont restrict non-res numbers severly(similar to S Dak), keep them all in zones, etc etc etc. There were years when there were only approx 5,000 non res hunters and up to 40,000. Guess what? We still have a waterfowl season, duck numbers are at a near all time high, snow goose numbers are out-of-hand, and yes, Resident Canada geese.
What are we going to be opening up doors for? You must mean the unlimited # of non resident upland licenses. Or is it the archery season. I agree that we need to keep numbers of hunters under control but baseless fear mongering is baseless. We won't need extra traffic lights, extra law enforcement, any of the such. Your point of depredation permits, or the lack applied for in the counties in question, doesnt hold water either. I won't discuss that here. It is a joke anyway. Explain what is going to happen if the bill passes. I have yet to hear that. PAy as you go guys? Explain what that is please and how it is going to ruin the future.
Reasons? I have friends that come to hunt with us now and lose a week off their regular season. More would come for one weekend if it didnt count against them but as the law reads now, they will wait.
Limit of eight giant Canada geese? Five is more than enough for me thank you. I would rather shin a deer than skin one those old buzzards. We can already hunt all day for 30 days.
No matter how it goes, we will all live through it, I just Thank God we have the I-94 corridor sportsmen looking out for us up north here!!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Hunter, I have hunted waterfowl for just a few less years than you. You can count those years on one hand by the way. I have hunted from Noonan, to the SD and places in between. Your comment about birds not even flying on the 15th is accurate, but irrelevant. ND could open this season even earlier and even more birds would not be on the wing!

Access is the issue, remains the issue. Young of the year do not venture out on their own, often. They depend on the adults to teach. Sanctuary areas are remembered and utilized by older geese and taught to the young. So tell us how opening of this area is going to cut down the goose issue when the sanctuary is not open to hunting? Increasing NR hunters means more pay hunting period. Will not do anything to affect a solution just increase the sanctuary areas and increase the issues.

Funny we where told that the commercial interests have no dog in this fight. Not the word coming back from elected officials that where likely NO votes in the House. Lots of contact to vote Yes!

I hold the same attitude about goose predation as I do deer! It is the right of the landowner to control access, however if they chose not to utilize the options available to reduce predation issues then anyone of them that cries or complains gets zilch!

Have a couple landowners in an area I hunt a good deal that are complaining about the goose issue. It was their neighbors who told them to shut up and open up your fields to early season hunters. Spread the birds around, force them to new areas instead of giving them a protected refuge. It took a few years, but never the less now birds are being taken, breeding levels have dropped, overall area population is not rising and is falling! This bill is not needed. Landowners need to open up land first and foremost. If that does not help, then I can see allowing NR to come and hunt, but no early season guiding allowed!


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

The guides that I have talked to up her, six i believe, none has a desire to guide the early season. They are also fish guides and they are in the middle of that. Not that they wouldn't, just not considering it right now.
Access??? If it isn't posted, we don't bother them, we just hunt. The chance the land is posted, the only time we get turned down is if their family is hunting the same day. The bottom line? There are just not enough hunters afield, period.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Well, hunter, maybe you have helped out with the posts about open land. I agree with you about asking. Many of the people I know that don't post do it because they don't want to be bothered. If the land is open and you go ask that is polite, but sometimes that's what the landowner is trying to avoid.

Hunter I think pay hunting endangers our hunting in North Dakota way more than the PETA or HSUS people. Watch and our numbers will drop in half in the future. When our numbers drop our political clout drops. Then we will begin to loose a lot of the hunting privileges we enjoy today. We will follow Texas, we will only hunt if we pay, we will see more high fence shooting galleries, we will see more non residents than residents because our salaries are lower, we will see passage of a no trespass bill, and worse. We have opened the door to pay hunting, and dollar bills will not let that door close again. If you don't see it your blind. This bill was just like the early pheasant season proposal that we now call pheasant gate. That was pay back to Cannon Ball for political backing. This had money behind it also.

I hate to admit this hunter, but I have relatives in the guide business, and that is my home area. If the guides are busy fishing they would have hired more for the early season.  Now they will be hunting me down.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

The guide/outfitting business has been placed under a magnifying glass and they police their own to their credit. Theirs is a tough business and hard way to make a living. I have good friends in the business and i don't envy them. But they do have their place.
For instance: I leave Minneapolis on a Friday afternoon with my son for a Saturday and Sunday hunt, I am forced to depart early Sunday because of work. Will I have time to scout so that we can hunt? If I hire a guide, we can hunt geese Saturday morning, ducks Saturday afternoon, geese or ducks Sunday morning and get home. There are very few in comparison that can take a week off, take the time to scout, and locate a place to hunt. Like it or not but they are here to stay. The way guides are portrayed on here most times they are the scum of the earth.Every state has guides in some form or another, wether it be fishing or hunting or just bird watching or sightseeing. Would I go to New Mexico on an Oryx hunt? Hell no!


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Hunter_58346 said:


> I agree that we need to keep numbers of hunters under control but baseless fear mongering is baseless.
> 
> Reasons? I have friends that come to hunt with us now and lose a week off their regular season. More would come for one weekend if it didnt count against them but as the law reads now, they will wait.


Thanks. I figured it was something like that....

"Fear mongering" as you call it? Just like I'm fear mongering about the crossbows. Just like I'm fear mongering about the $500 season long NR license. Etc etc etc.....

Every bill we've fought this year has caused me to think of possible consequences we could face down the road. I don't like what I see. So yeah, I would rather error on the side of caution, er "fear mongering", than pay those consequences later. If you haven't noticed, there is not much legislation being introduced to benefit the resident sportsmen (especially when it comes to waterfowl and upland), only the NR's. Give them an inch every session and pretty soon we're screwed. Call it baseless fear mongering if you'd like, but I call it looking out for my interests as a RESIDENT sportsmen. :thumb:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Hunter, you pointed out the problem. I have nothing against non residents, or guides. I think on one hand guiding would be fun, but then I think of the pansies I would have to put up with. Here is the problem however: That guy leaving Minneapolis perhaps moved there because salary was double what he could get in North Dakota. As you say he would only have limited vacation time and can not afford time to scout. However, because of the salary he now has he can afford a guide. So now when hunting means money to the guide or outfitter he naturally like any business wants to grow. He can grow by having a good reputation of filling out tags, providing lots of shooting, having good meals. So with more business the outfitter needs more guides. He also has to ensure all the people coming have a good place to hunt. That means he has to tie up land that the ducks will stay on, and be there when his hunters arrive. He can't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry hunting where he will take his clients and chasing all the birds away. So there you have it, more leased land, less access for residents. As I say I don't have anything against non residents or guides, but you see the problem now? You described it perfectly.


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## Augusta (Feb 2, 2011)

Plainsman said:


> Hunter, you pointed out the problem. I have nothing against non residents, or guides. I think on one hand guiding would be fun, but then I think of the pansies I would have to put up with. Here is the problem however: That guy leaving Minneapolis perhaps moved there because salary was double what he could get in North Dakota. As you say he would only have limited vacation time and can not afford time to scout. However, because of the salary he now has he can afford a guide. So now when hunting means money to the guide or outfitter he naturally like any business wants to grow. He can grow by having a good reputation of filling out tags, providing lots of shooting, having good meals. So with more business the outfitter needs more guides. He also has to ensure all the people coming have a good place to hunt. That means he has to tie up land that the ducks will stay on, and be there when his hunters arrive. He can't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry hunting where he will take his clients and chasing all the birds away. So there you have it, more leased land, less access for residents. As I say I don't have anything against non residents or guides, but you see the problem now? You described it perfectly.


+1


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

The bill passed the Senate.

yea....28

Nay.....18


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

No surprise this was a fair bill it should have been state wide.



> It just takes a little planning. It worked on my farm. For the people that are bothered by surplus wildlife, why don't they ever put a FREE ad on Nodak or one of the other outdoor sites asking for hunters? It would take all of a minute to ask for sportsmen to show up. Date, time, place,....done deal. Hasn't happened yet.


So I'm curious all you that were against allowing n/r to come in how many would be willing to come to farms and help kill geese this summer? What the heck we can get 5 members and you can shoot 30 and then get more permits.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Will they let me smack them from 1000 yards with a rifle, or do I have to use one of those silly little short range scatter guns?


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## gator_getter (Sep 7, 2008)

Yes..... its such great sport shooting those geese in the spring and summer time......NOT. Opponents of this bill thought this is the answer, more shooting of depredating geese? Line up boys there's lots of permits to be gotten.

I'm all for letting the non residents in for the early season. What the heck, if they want to hunt the "bean eating bastards"....let em.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

g/o said:


> No surprise this was a fair bill it should have been state wide.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would have a tough time killing geese in July that I'd much rather shoot in the decoys come Aug/Sept. Plus, you can't even touch the birds, they must remain where they lay. Therefore, I would also have a tough time being apart of all that waste.

Although, it would be great practice for milling, wind calling, and doping.  And Plainsman, I do beleive a rifle is legal, but couldn't find any info on it to say that with 100% confidence.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Not too mention, the hold over practice a guy could get in with a quick follow up shot after a miss, because of course, they won't be able to fly. :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plus, you can't even touch the birds, they must remain where they lay.


 No jerky 

Ya, those depredation permits are kill only. I think they are also restricted to landowners. What a waste. We recycle an aluminum can, but waste pounds of meat. I guess the only thing good about it is that it's only half as far as the prairie dog towns. Well, if they were actually making a dent in a guys field I could force myself to whack a few.


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## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

So is there any update yet on all the non-res hunters the outfitters are going to be bringing in for this hunt? I am assuming they are all booked in the DL/Cando area and the hotels are jacked with with out of state plates.
Are the guides that outfit on DL for fishing putting the boats away for the year and starting their hunting seasons tomorrow? I really like hunting geese and even though we have a place in one of the 3 new counties, I have zero interest in hunting them this time of year but I am just curious to see how bad the pressure is. I thought I read something that license sales for new or significant changes in hunting seasons spike the first year and then drop off after that so the DL area must be loaded with hunters right now.
For those of you who make it out...please let the rest of us know what you see.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

If you read the exact wording of the bill, now law, it says *Sept. early goose season*. Not August early goose season. Typically the law will be ignored and NR will be included anyway. After all, this is North Dakota. Whoever squeeses the clay the hardest gets the shape they want. So much for the law.


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## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

Is there a seperate August Season or is Sept Season their name for early season. The regs don't seem to differentiate NR dates or R dates so I am guessing its one single season and its just labeled as the Sept season as it probably started out as a season that only included september. Looks to me like its open to anyone.

_Open Area: Statewide
Opens: August 13 Closes: September 15 (Except in Missouri River Zone)
Daily Limit: 8
Possession Limit: 16
Shooting Hours: 30 minutes before sunrise to sunset

Missouri River Canada Goose Zone
Open Area: See map below
Opens: August 13 Closes: September 7
Daily Limit: 8
Possession Limit: 16
Shooting Hours: 30 minutes before sunrise to sunset

*Hunters may not combine daily or possession limits from the two
zones. Nonresidents who hunt during this season in Richland, Sargent,
Benson, Ramsey and Towner counties may do so without
counting against their 14-day regular license restrictions. Otherwise,
nonresidents may hunt only during the period that their nonresident
waterfowl license is valid and must stay within selected
zones (exception - statewide license does not restrict to zones)._


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I was out in ND during the early goose. Most of the landowners I encountered complained that there is not enough people shooting them. Beans were getting destroyed. One farmer said over 200 acres are already gone. Some made the comment wishing that the early season was open to NR and also that it did not count towards the 2 weeks. Just a report from what I encountered when talking to land owners. This was in two counties that are not in the 5 listed.


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## mulefarm (Dec 7, 2009)

Has the NR over taken the counties that allow early season without counting against your 14 days? Is it a problem or a non-issue?


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## gator_getter (Sep 7, 2008)

mulefarm said:


> Has the NR over taken the counties that allow early season without counting against your 14 days? Is it a problem or a non-issue?


Very little hunting pressure I am hearing in Richland and Sargent counties.


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## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

that's because everyone decided to go to DL area on guided early season hunts. The hotels have a whole new source of income and guides are charging $300 per gun due to high demand from MN guys.
Lets hear how the pressure was up there. 3 spreads per field? downwinding or roosts getting busted. There must be stories of guys getting turned down because the field was leased out by guides who had clients in for the weekend.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Ahh! Come on man! We heard from the horses mouth that the G/O where not interested in the early season!!!!!!!! :wink:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

BB... Did you hunt near DL or have a situation up in DL with pressure or no? It sounds like you are trying to stir the pot with out a valid point or examples. You say pressure, guides, MN hunters everywhere, etc...yet you ask for example of this. You like to throw blame at NR's yet don't have a foot to stand on from what I have read so far......Hmmm.....maybe this bill is a non issue.

Like I stated I was in counties where it would count against your license and the farmers were complaining that more needed to be shot. Three of the ones I talked with were going to talk with the legislators of their area to see if they could push it so that it would not count against the 14 days. So farmers want more dead birds.

The one example a land owner told me (he already lost 200 acres of beans to geese) was that the only way to curb the problem is kill them in the spring. His example was you have 10 pairs come back to nest on his farm pond....that would equal about 50 goslings that will make 60 geese that will be feeding and destroying fields. Then he added that he has about 10 ponds like this on property he owns or rents..... Sounds like problem geese....which the early season is supposed to take care of!


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## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

I have been working in an area from Devils Lake 45 miles up Hwy 20 to north and along Hwy 17 from Hwy 20 to Edmore and haven't seen 1 hunter yet. Tons of geese and harvested grain fields but nobody hunting them. Don't think pressures a problem.


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## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

Also very little posted land. BB should get his story straight before posting.


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## teamflightstoppersND (Feb 20, 2009)

Chuck Smith said:


> I was out in ND during the early goose. Most of the landowners I encountered complained that there is not enough people shooting them. Beans were getting destroyed. One farmer said over 200 acres are already gone. Some made the comment wishing that the early season was open to NR and also that it did not count towards the 2 weeks. Just a report from what I encountered when talking to land owners. This was in two counties that are not in the 5 listed.


Hunters cant really help that farmer if the birds are feeding in bean fields, unless he lets us hunt them in his bean fields! That was a huge problem in our area because birds were using bean and pea fields and would not even touch the grain fields. A few harvested grain fields do not help when competing for fields.


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## teamflightstoppersND (Feb 20, 2009)

wurgs said:


> I have been working in an area from Devils Lake 45 miles up Hwy 20 to north and along Hwy 17 from Hwy 20 to Edmore and haven't seen 1 hunter yet. Tons of geese and harvested grain fields but nobody hunting them. Don't think pressures a problem.


That's a long ways away to shoot geese for many people! How was it close to DL? Different story I suppose!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The farmers did let us hunt the bean field. We just had to pack in our decoys, hunt the edge that was near water.

My whole thing is that Residents were saying "great here comes a flood of NR and commercialization"....didn't happen. Also more farmers want birds dead. This is a nuisance season. They want these geese dead.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Havent heard of any of the local guides having one client for the early season but havent seen many non residents here hunting either. I guess the scare never did materialize.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

With all the alarms going off just before the vote on this bill and no responses now that the early season is over? I expected doom and gloom, horror stories, traffic jams trying to get into fields. As a matter of fact, MOST fields didnt get posted until this past week. What exactly was fueling the fire??


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## gator_getter (Sep 7, 2008)

Hunter_58346 said:


> With all the alarms going off just before the vote on this bill and no responses now that the early season is over? I expected doom and gloom, horror stories, traffic jams trying to get into fields. As a matter of fact, MOST fields didnt get posted until this past week. What exactly was fueling the fire??


Agreed, very good early season. Talked to many happy hunters. Maybe DICK MONSON can shed some light on why it was so important that this bill should have been killed.


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## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

teamflightstoppersND said:


> wurgs said:
> 
> 
> > I have been working in an area from Devils Lake 45 miles up Hwy 20 to north and along Hwy 17 from Hwy 20 to Edmore and haven't seen 1 hunter yet. Tons of geese and harvested grain fields but nobody hunting them. Don't think pressures a problem.
> ...


We have been staying in Devils Lake and driving to job every morning. Granted its been during the week and most people do hunt weekends but had seen very few hunting rigs at hotels or restaurants. I'm sure it will pick up during regular waterfowl season tho. Lots of birds around


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