# 3 & 30



## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Would a 3 duck/day limit and 30 day duck season put an end to the surplus of NR hunters in ND?

Or are they hooked and will come no matter what?

Would this hurt the waterfowl outfitters or are they already booked for 2003?


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Do you know something I don't? Did they come out with new regs?


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

ND is in the central flyway...


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## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

Arkansas cut their mallard limit to 3 last season to get additional days. In addition to that, they have reportedly had a few "bad" seasons in a row. I haven't heard of any guides going out of business there. I would guess large numbers of NRs would continue to come to ND with 3 & 30--some of us won't take up golf no matter how bad the duck hunting gets.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

How about one of each species per year :roll: I'd still go

But 1 per day, of each would be alot better  - I could live with that.

When is no longer worth it to the average shooter ???


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

You guys have to remember that bad in ND is still better than any where else in the majority of cases.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

There probably would be a drop.I think some would go to Canada if their limit stays at 8 per day.They are recieving good rains up there,so they probably won't lower their limit.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Guess my feeling is a conservative bag limit will end the stampede to get into ND for "easy hunting and big bag limits".

While I realize you can not stock pile ducks, and liberal seasons are what they are ... I would still enjoy a 3 or 4 mallard / 4 duck limit.

The dedicated waterfowl hunter will remain, while the fly-by-night hunters will seek a new opp somewhere else.

The people who feel they must limit to be successful will reach that goal more often. For those that are beyond that level, should not matter what the bird limit is.

Your right Mr. Jones. So if a more conservative season is implemmented than it would be 40 or 45 days in the Central and 30 in MS? Every one east of the Pacific Flyway would get three ducks.

No Chris there is nothing yet. Looking at the new "DU" map - pretty dry except around the MB, SK, ND border area.

Just have a feeling that unless May rains spring eternal that the feds will error on the conservative side rather than the liberal side this year. Time for a model readjustment (tweak) or mallard theshold target change. 

Ramblin on...


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

I agree with parts of many of the comments. Lower limits and/or less plentiful shooting will likely keep some from coming and/or stop the growth, but I don't think the crowding situation will improve.

Some have argued no need for caps on the "Mother Nature" theory - that when it goes dry so will the hunter numbers. Even in an extended dry period, I don't think we'll ever see the 5K non residents we had for many years in the late '80's and early '90's. I think we're in a new paradigm with the media/internet attention ND has received, the diversity of hunters we've experienced and the proliferation of guides/outfitters. As GG noted, for many, ND will still offer superior hunting to their home areas.

I hope I'm wrong, because when we go dry, we're really going to feel the effects of pressure, crowding and even more so the G/O's. It's a recipe for frustration when the birds get concentrated and everyone (G/O's and their clients and the non-fee hunters, including a heavy dose of nonresident freelancers) vies for the fewer productive areas.

With dryer conditions and lower limits apparently on the way, we may well have "peaked" in terms of total waterfowl hunter numbers, but I think our pressure/competition issues will remain and may feel more severe.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Not an answer, nor a solution - just a situation that may play out - if not this year then ....

Yep - drought will not be EASY to the ND waterfowl hunter (short term situation anyway). Those that adapt will find excellent hunting.

Most consistent hunting in ND is on local birds - at least until mid/end of October.

Local Canada geese will not reproduce at same level. Local geese will concentrate onto remaining wetlands (good or bad depending upon access).

Ducks will be very concentrated (good or bad depending upon access).

The snow goose hunting was great during the last drought ('80s and early '90s) - probably not going to save ND hunting this time around. Just 15 years ago the opening day of waterfowl could be a great day of snow goose hunting over decoys - try that now.

Then again maybe Huns will have a chance at a comeback.


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

I have to agree with Dan; I think North Dakota has shifted paradigms brought on by a whole sundry lot. You have the North Dakota Tourism Department selling its soul, proliferation of guides/outfitters, seasonal tourism dollars in the tills of the small towns, television, internet, and last but not least word of mouth or the friend of a friend passage.

Speaking as a non-resident, I will continue to come to ND because the alternative in California simply falls short on every level. If you want to play in this recreation arena in CA, you have to come with a wallet that contains huge sums of money. Unfortunately, every non-resident that has visited from a State where leasing or clubs are Vogue, the choice is simple, save your money for a 7 - 14 day trip to N.D. The thought of shelling out $1,500 to hunt on a lease is extreme, especially when you and 600 other "members" are vying for that hunting blind. On the flip side, you can shell out maybe 2/3 or even 1/2 that amount and have freedom to do what you want with a very high amount of obtainable game species.

And I really have to agree that the sportsmanship and behavior while in the field will even further erode to despicable levels. As I have stated numerous times, one of the most unfortunate problems with a vast number of NRs is the subconscious assertion of paying a higher license fee somehow entitles that person to shoot a limit at whatever cost. And if you have a G/O with paying clients competing with all others, sportsmanship will be something that is discussed by elders and referenced in the past tense.


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## browningboy (Mar 30, 2003)

i say if u want to get more ducks, the more u have to pay for the lisense


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

DRY, holy cripes, we aren't dry up here.
Neither is sask. and manitoba. Who produces more ducks, inner city fargo or the lake region, manitoba, and sask.
This dry talk is a ploy by you big city boys and a california kookoo bird who would like to brainwash people into thinking that duck numbers are dangerously low. Come on, take a drive up by lake alice and lake irvine. I beg to differ on the low duck numbers. Sure if alls you do is sit at your computer in fargo and never leave your office, obviously duck numbers are going to seem low.

Dan, better make a trip up with winstone here one of these days, I will show you duck numbers that you wouldn't believe.

cootkiller


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Cootkiller,
When the fall flight counts come out I will make my judgements on how the birds have done this spring based on expert opinions. While I understand that you are seeing many ducks around and there seems to be plenty of water. To rip on others about there discussion and claiming that they are trying to "brainwash" people into thinking that the bird numbers are low is ludicris. Please tell me what your expert qualifications are so I can be sure that I can trust your "judgement"?


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

CK, you've got good water in your area and the ducks responded last year and apparently this year too. But, unless things have changed dramatically from last fall, much of the duck belt in the central and south part of the state does not have good water. After the early part of the season I move from your area south, and last fall I walked across in boots potholes I tip-toed through in waders the year before.

If Canada now gets wet and you stay wet, overall duck numbers in our flyway might not take a huge hit, but unless other areas of the ND duck belt get wet again, pressure will worsen as birds and hunters in ND concentrate. HPC was never about duck numbers. It was about targeting total hunter numbers to anticipated hunting opportunities, i.e., amount of water and likely bird dispersion throughout the state. You may not feel it will affect you personally, but if the northern tier is the only wet area of the state, how would the quality of hunting generally in the northern tier be affected if 25 of the 30k nonresidents and an equal proportion of the residents all worked that area? Elbow to elbow hunters, frustrations from competition causing people to boat into and shoot big and other roost water and premature outmigration. Total bird population only drives part of the reasonable hunter number analysis.

I'll say hi to Winston from you tonight.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Don't mean to reiterate, but I put on another 3500 miles this spring, and most of it was rural.

Dan is right. If you go south of I-94 it's very dry. I haven't seen anything promising until north of HW 200. I was just in your area last weekend so I can agree with your judgement that it's still very wet up there.

I don't think I need to speak for Albert, Sask. and Manitoba as to their duck production the past 3 years. They've been dry...extremely dry in Alberta and Sask. (I was in Sask. last fall so I saw it for myself)

Granted they are getting much needed rains this spring, so it could turnaround. I'll leave the brainwashing to PETA. :wink:


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

qualifications,
How about 23years of avid hunting. I was there in the glory of the late 70's and early 80's. I was there in the lean years of the late 80's and early 90's and right now is better than any of it.
I also studied at VCSU under the venerable Archie Moore for two years.
I know I am not a wildlife biologist but hey my fiance and I spend three to four days a week driving around our farm wether to look at birds, moose, deer, or just to go to the private range and shoot some clay pigeons. If I compare the duck numbers to previous years I do not see the dramatic decrease you all speak of.

cootkiller


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## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

Nothing like looking at the world through a rolled up newspaper :roll:

Employing that logic, I suppose if you don't see any snowgeese on your farm while you are driving around you conclude that they are extinct?


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Southwest of Jamestown the big water is still holding well. The small ponds and brood area's have little to no water. With the rain last weekend most potholes had water in talking to a coulpe of farmers today they daid this water is all but gone. The northern 1/3 has very good conditions and will have I belive a good production year if it doesn't turn cold and wet in late May or June causeing hatchling mortality. The ducks have moved out and are not nesting in our area. They have moved to other area's, a pond filling rain will help some of the ducks that did stay, but won't bring ducks back to nest.

I hope we get some rain to fill up these ponds so that the birds have some place stage on the flight south this fall, if not CK you will be wondering where all the birds went do to constant hunting pressure from all of the hunters that will be targeting your area. Many other sites are pointing hunters to your area due to the fact it is one of the few area's in the state that have average or above water conditons. I think that you will get your wish and a education in what to much hunting pressure will do to your hunting quality this fall. I hope I am wrong but I think time will prove my opnions right.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Well, It is not like I close my eyes until I get to our land then open them. We also could have used a little more hunting pressure last year to keep the birds active a little more.
Talk about seeing the world through a rolled up newspaper, I don't think some of you have ever thought outside the box of your own little comfort zone in your entire lives. Living with that my idea, my opinions, my own interests must be a very miserable lifestyle to live.

As far as too much pressure ruining MY hunting, come on, I put out over 70 to 100 posted signs every year just for that reason.

cootkiller


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## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

Be sure to give us your insight on the nesting conditions you saw in Manitoba, Sask., and the rest of Canada while you were making your spring surveys CK.


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## Miller (Mar 2, 2002)

> I don't think some of you have ever thought outside the box of your own little comfort zone in your entire lives.


But by living in Ramsey county you are somehow enlightened? So what you see in Ramsey county must hold true for 3 provinces as well? :eyeroll: Please, you don't have a clue what goes on 20 miles away from your place, let alone 200.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Miller
No, your right I have not driven to canada to survey, but I do have many friends that either live there or go there to hunt in the fall and the reports I get from them have all been favorable.
And not knowing anything outside of 20 miles. Well, you obviously don't know the state very well. First off Maza is 26 miles from Devils Lake, and when we go road triooing ot look for birds, moose, deer, whatever, heck 80 miles is only about 5 beers, and I assure you we bring more than a twelve pack with us. Thank god the fiance is not a drinker ah.

cootkiller :wink:


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

makes me all tingly inside to be able to call him a member of the hunting brotherhood..... how about you??? uke:


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Coot - you are as far from where I am at, as a Freelance Hunter (or even have been) :roll:

Your world is alot smaller than you think (you do think - right ???) :wink:

But it's good your here - ??? Maybe we can help you see the other sides to things :beer: This is truely one of the biggest problems in this Us against them mentality. Small town thinking - Farmer Thinking - Non Hunter thinking - Local hunter thinking - State wide hunter thinking - Regional Hunter thinking - even National & Global hunter thinking ---OH never mind, it will just give you a headache :idiot:

Becareful the Law is out in force looking for you this month :eyeroll:

Speaking of Law do Game wardens ever carry breath-a-lizers or check hunters for this ???

Another idea why doesn't the G&FD deputise everyone on their staff & ask any other law enforcement people, to help them with enforcement - during Sept. Oct. Nov. - Even have a volunteer (trained ) group to help them ??? - RAP is OK but it could be better - Like big rewards ???

What & how should a person do - to make a case against the Bad guys - out there ???


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Coot...you brag about drinking and driving???

Even if you are not serious...why would you admit doing that?


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Ken W.

Why do you think I said I was glad my fiance didn't drink.

My point for making those outlandish comments was to make a simple point to try to open your eyes to the fact that you will not think outside the box.

I did not say I hunted while drinking or while intoxicated, most of the time I hunt with kids and there is no way in he!! I would ever do that.

I said while looking for birds, moose, deer, we have a few. Did I say WHILE driving, no, but I tell you what, the webster, starkweather, cando, ferry, penn ,cove loop is alot of fun.
Again have I said I was driving or that WE were drinking while we are driving NO. That is what the DD is for.
You all are so single minded you believe what you want and refuse to see things any other way. :eyeroll:

Fetch,
Do I think, you probably don't want to know what I think sometimes.

I do think it is funny how you and your little cronies constantly try to turn my words around all the time and put words in my mouth, the numbers of people like me are far more than you think and the scary part about that is alot of those people who think like me are the ones that control that precious dirt that you need to be standing on in order to shoot anything in ND.

cootkiller


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## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

Just think how much the USFWS is going to save on conducting bird population surveys when they hear about this. Instead of hiring biologists and conducting expensive surveys, all they will need to do in the future is buy CK a 30 pack of Busch and a calling card and he will use his unique method of determining how the continental waterfowl populations are doing. Wonder what they are going to do with all the money they save? :wink:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I'm going to let your ignorance speak for itself and not take the bait to stupe to your level.Have fun on your "road trips."


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

cootie  you can call me a Idiot all you want 

But Don't be doing it without using a smilie, or a hehe afterwards, or else I will have to delete it - get it ???

Now I doubt Busch beer is going to get much out of CK he already mentioned he is a Amberboch kinda guy.

I once rode with one of the guides from Woodland, on his evening scouting trip looking for SOB's - 80 to 90 mph on gravel & a 12 pack. (only once)  I was younger & stupider than too. :eyeroll:

=============================================

Your right coot it is scary & maybe why maybe ND is in the slide to the Buffalo Commons, or even worse yet, the next State to become a Commercial Hunting Mess.

When that day comes - then the majority of birds will stay in Canada & flyover ND to SD (Hey !!! they do that now) But it will get worse.


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

There ya go again coot bragging about your expertise at calculating waterfowl populations :eyeroll: Let see, would that be the "DMTDBCD" method of calculating waterfowl populations that you are using? :lol: Or did you do that out dated, over rated wildlife degree thing. :lol: Since you teach 6 grade I am going to go out on a limb and wager that you got a degree in education. :lol: So by process of elimination I would have to guess that you are truely using the "DMTDBCD" method of calculating waterfowl populations. That makes you one of the few humans in the world that can do it with any degree of accuracy. Since you do have an educational degree from VCSU I know your results will show no bias :lol: The last guy I met that used this method died while using the "DMTDBCD" method of calculating waterfowl populations. So not only are you smart but brave! :wink: Keep up the good work coot :-? Your the man! :rock:

I must appologize for my assumption that you all knew what I was talking about. I thought that a group of outdoorsman of this caliber would have heard about the "DMTDBCD" (Drive My Truck, Drink Beer and Count Ducks) method of calculating waterfowl populations. Gee wiz I guess I am on the amature page :wink:


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Fletching,
I didn't call you an idiot, I called Ken W. an idiot :lol:

It is amazing that by making one humorous comment on here and you boys cry bloody murder. 
Some of you guys take yourselves way, way, way too seriously.
Funny.

Fletching,
You better get your facts straight when you speak of woodland guides. I know every one of them personally and none would do the things you say you did with them.
The person yo were with is either not there now or never was and yo uare just lying to dirty the image of an outstanding operation.

cootkiller


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

OH he is gone alright - & it was close to 10 years ago (Gary) if you want to check it out.

I never Lie


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