# EBAY at it again!



## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

Ebay just canceled my auction for a rear sks sight, they emailed me the following.

*We thank you for your interest in listing your item on eBay. However, 
assault weapons, in whole or in part, including their accessories may 
not be listed on eBay. In fact, the mere mention of an assault weapon in 
a firearms listing will be reason enough for eBay to remove a listing 
from the site.

Your listing description stated, "SKS sights. These are take offs from a 
Norinco" and as the Norinco SKS is a known assault weapon, therefore, 
your listing was in violation of the following policy:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/fir ... nives.html

eBay has recently revised its Firearms Policy so that the sale of any 
assault weapon-related parts or accessories will no longer be permitted. 
This will apply to all parts and accessories related to any firearm 
defined as an assault weapon by either Federal or California law.

The primary reason that eBay has changed its policy is that various 
state and federal laws are particularly complex when it comes to 
regulating, and even defining, assault weapons parts and accessories. 
What is legal in one jurisdiction may be illegal in another, and as the 
category grew, it became increasingly difficult for us to enforce a 
consistent policy. To keep our community from inadvertently violating a 
firearms law, and to simplify our enforcement into a policy that would 
be fair and consistent to all sellers, we took the step of banning all 
parts and accessories related to assault weapons. This decision was made 
purely to help protect our community from inadvertently violating 
firearms laws, and for enforcement reasons. eBay takes no position on 
the gun control issue. eBay will continue to allow the sale of hunting 
rifle parts and accessories because the laws surrounding the sale of 
these items are much simpler and thus easier to enforce.

Provided your sight may be used for other non-assault weapons, you are 
welcome to relist your item at your convenience. However, I respectfully 
request that you remove any reference to an "Norinco SKS" or other 
assault weapon.

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing eBay.

Sincerely, 
Brewster

eBay Customer Support *

The AWB has expired, federal assualt weapons laws are null and void. Apparently not in the Communist Republic of Californiastan.

:******:


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I'm always glad to see when others share my cynicism, and your example is certainly a good one.

With more than a little reservation, I do patronize e-bay. I LONG for the day they have viable competition so I can tell 'em to take a hike, and choke on their liberal BS in the process.

One thing we can all do is totally boycott paypal. It's owned by e-bay, and they don't need to make any more money off the transaction than absolutely necessary. Until they let you buy a gun with it, I will NOT use it!


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

www.gunbroker.com

www.gearpay.com

What more is there to say.


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

> One thing we can all do is totally boycott paypal. It's owned by e-bay, and they don't need to make any more money off the transaction than absolutely necessary. Until they let you buy a gun with it, I will NOT use it!


 :withstupid:


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## jp (Aug 13, 2003)

Do not forget complete muzzle loaders also for EBAY!
Now you find them broken apart in seperate bids. Many times now the Lock, Stock, Barrel, and trigger assembly are for sale on seperate bids.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

When Ebay bought PayPal they got more than just a payment system. According to PayPal, all your PayPal information is kept on file for a number of years. No customer information is deleted when you close your account. PayPal says the information has to remain on file to cover possible fraud problems. So now every time you use PayPal, Ebay has your credit card number, bank account number, address, and a host of other information on you. I used PayPal just once, for this site actually and immediately had problems. I'll not use it again nor will I use Ebay for anything. It's the same way with Google ads. Everyone knows the ads bring up items that go against the grain of what people in ND Outdoors stand for but it is still allowed. The all might dollar at work I guess.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

I've bought and sold about 200 items over the last 5 years on e-bay without any problems of any kind. More than half of them have been paid through paypal without any problems there either.

They may not be perfect but they've sure helped create a market for items a person either threw away or got very little for them before. I guess until something better comes along I'll be grateful they're there rather than curse them.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Use postal money orders, redlabel. It's safer for both parties, and it limits e-bay's profits. You can still enjoy all e-bay has to offer as far as selection and top dollar for your item without using paypal.

Just the fact that they will not let you buy a gun with it is enough for me. You can buy sex toys and blow-up dolls...LITERALLY! But heaven forbid someone would actually want to buy a nasty ol' gun with it.

I recently discovered the classifieds on this site. Perhaps that will grow enough to keep us away from e-bay!


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Let's see now:

I've been using the system with no problems for 5 years and I want to change why.......? Because someone is upset he can't buy a gun there? Like I should care?

A postal money order protects the buyer how......?


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

I have used eBay for over 9 years with well over 500 transactions; both buying and selling and also used PayPal for many years with hundreds of transactions, I am comfortable with there services. eBay allowed members to list firearms for a few years until laws forced them to not allow members to list firearms. At that point they started a new site, one we all know as Gunbroker.

I think when a listing for a gun part is canceled it is because the eBay employee who cancels the auction is not knowledgeable about firearms and does not take the time to research what the product is that is listed and they are canceling. I am sure as a seller if you contact eBay and explain that it is a gun part, not a firearm they will allow you to relist your item.

As far as sending a money order instead of using PayPal. That is fine until the seller denies receiving the money order. With a money order all you can do is prove it was cashed, you can not prove who received the cash. With PayPal you have proof that the payment was received and who received it.

I do agree that eBay needs a competitor. Competition keeps services higher and prices lower for the customer.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

I agree with redlabel and mossymo :beer:


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

redlabel said:


> Let's see now:
> 
> I've been using the system with no problems for 5 years and I want to change why.......? Because someone is upset he can't buy a gun there? Like I should care?
> 
> A postal money order protects the buyer how......?


Redlabel, I am reluctant to get into this during this most special of all Holidays, especially since other threads here certainly hint you are not "in the best of spirits", but since I always try to give the asker of a question the decency of a response, here goes.....

I would think someone who frequents this site (note your statement previously that this is a site about GUNS and hunting) would CARE more about any infringement on their second amendment rights. Not to say that e-bay is bound by the constitution to allow the sale of guns on THEIR site, but only to illustrate that I would expect most who hold firearm ownership dear to take more offense to that official stance. I guess in your case I was wrong. Please accept my humble apology, and have a merry Christmas anyway.

As to your question about how a money order is safer for the buyer. There is only one way to get money out of my wallet to purchase a money order. On the other hand, technology is constantly trying to stay one step ahead of the geeks that learn how to access other's funds electronically. Furthermore, I firmly believe that with ease and convenience comes a price. Meaning, if it's so easy to pay for something that I can do it without even leaving my computer chair, then I don't think it's a stretch to think it's more than possible that somewhere, someone is trying to access someone else's money the same way. Maybe it just shows the generation I was raised in, but electronic transfer of funds just opens up the possibility of a whole new type of mistakes, either accidental or intentional.

I could go on about how educated (and shameless) e-bayers can manipulate the process through e-bay's customer service venue to get a credit to their account that is not warranted, but that would show the risks incurred by the seller, which was not your question.

As far as the wrong person cashing the money order...postal inspectors make IRS employees look like kindergarten teachers, and banks don't check, and double-check identity prior to cashing a check or money order because they have too much time on their hands. They do it because by cashing said money order they are incurring some liability. I'm sure the scenario Mossymo illustrates happens from time to time, but I am more willing to risk that than the other.

Now to Mossymo's statement e-bay would (and used to) sell guns if they could. You are free to believe that if you want, but I never will. And I did a quick check of Gunbroker's ownership since you inferred it was started by the e-bay people to sell what they "couldn't" on e-bay, and here's what I found....

Gunbroker.com was started in 1999 by Steven F. Urvan. Mr. Urvan (40) is a seasoned executive and entrepreneur with significant information systems technology background............Mr. Urvan is CEO/CTO and founder of Gunbroker.com,Inc.........Prior to founding Gunbroker, he served as Director of Engineering at Global Village Comm., and architected what was at the time the largest optical data storage and retrieval system for ATM and POS information for Bank of America.

E-bay, on the other hand, was founded and is still run by Pierre Omidyar, I believe in 1996.

If I'm missing something, please let me know.

Thanks to all, and to all a Merry Christmas!


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Csquared:

Whether or not ebay allows guns or their parts to be sold on their site has nothing to do with infringing on my second amendment rights. The same as Radio Shack not selling guns doesn't have anything to do with infirnging on my second amendment rights. If I want to purchase a firearm I go to a store that sell guns or visit my neighbor who has an FFL if I buy one that needs to be shipped to me. But then, I also don't go to a gun shop to buy tires for my car.

However if Congress or my State Legislature was going to change a law that affected those rights I would certainly write to my congressman and state representatives to let them know my viewpoint.

I did say this was a site about hunting and fishing not GUNS and fishing.

I still don't understand how a money order protects the buyer? If the seller cashes the money order and doesn't ship you anything what recourse do you have. With paypal that person will either need to provide the item or not be able to use paypal or ebay again. Which would you rather have?

As I said earlier, my experience over 5 years and a couple of hundred transactions will take precedence over someone crying wolf on a hunting and fishing website.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

The existence of e-bay has yet to keep me from buying any gun I wanted...to my wife's chagrin. However it has helped me many time get hunting gear I wanted very cheaply. In addition, the paypal buyer protection plan has been very useful a couple of times. :beer:


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

Hello everyone,

Communitcation with the seller is the key to the whole process.

Awhile back I won a bid for a barrel for my other shotgun.

Called seller, found out why selling, talked a while about pheasant 
hunting, if I could pay him direct with a check, how the item was going
to be shipped, etc.

Everything went fine, barrel came packaged better than factory, and 
was exactly what I wanted and got.

Skipped E bow, oops I meant E bay pay pal, went direct to seller.

see you later


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Redlabel, I certainly don't want to argue with you on Christmas day! Don't you have a mother-in-law you can direct your aggression to? My suggestion would be to wait 'till tomorrow to do that, but I don't expect my suggestions carry much weight with you, so good luck!

Your first sentence is rendered moot by the third sentence in my previous response where I clearly stated e-bay was NOT constitutionally bound to sell guns.

As to your tire store analogy. Nice try, but you're totally missing the point. What if that same tire store put 4 new tires on for you, but refused to take your VISA card as payment because it was sponsored by the NRA? Official "store policy". You've made it clear that would not offend you, but I would be rather irate, and I'm guessing most on here would also be. At the very least, they would be removing 4 tires from my truck.

I do owe you an apology, however. I did miss quote you with my guns and hunting statement. Please forgive me for allowing facts to mingle. With your site name being a shotgun, and your tag line mentioning you "shoot" birds over ugly dogs, I mistakenly typed guns since you obviously aren't talking about bowhunting. I AM very sorry. Please excuse me.

As to the crying wolf? Nope. Just simply exercising my rights as a consumer. The whole point of my mentioning this is to remind people who DO care if they are supporting people who would support the anti-gun agenda that it is very possible that proceeds generated from paypal use could be used to do just that. If you're OK with that, well that's up to you, but I'm not. But that's just my opinion.

Once again, have a VERY Merry Christmas


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## Mallard Masher (Jan 15, 2006)

Does ebay even know the real definition of assault weapon.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Csquared:

So that would make the whole paragraph jibberish I guess. Since you start out by stating I should CARE more about any infringement on my second amendment rights. I do when the infringement takes place.

The analogy about not buying tires at a sporting goods store is a good point, it yours that is poor. You see if a store accepts Visa they accept all Visa cards. You trying to make a point with a hypothetical event leads you to arrive and be upset about a hypothetical conclusion rather than deal with facts.

It seems you owe me another apology as well. If you go back and read the tag line very carefully you will find that I do not, as you suggest, say I shoot birds over ugly dogs.

Speaking your mind as you do is exercising your rights as an American, but not as a consumer. If you are acting as a consumer you are incorrectly representing E-bay. One is not able to determine if they are anti-gun or not from this. I suspect if they were truly anti-gun they would not allow guns parts as well. I do suspect that they are telling the truth when they say that the regulations became to much to insure compliance with. But then that might be hypothetical, I just don't know.

Actually my Mother-In Law loves me. How else would she feel about the Father of the world's smartest children.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I'm not incorrectly representing anyone. Most of us on here have already figured this out by ourselves, but since you seem to have trouble grasping the concept I'll help you out....but only a little.

You say one cannot determine e-bay's political slant? Well check out www.newsmeat.com/billionaire_political_ ... midyar.php for starters.

You'll immediately see he has personally donated $4000 to Republicans in the same time span he donated $142,500 to Democrats. I suppose it's possible they were PRO-GUN Democrats, but come on!!!! Hillary Clinton is on the list. Do you think SHE is pro gun?

It's a matter of public record, but to find it you first have to remove your head from the sand.

Like I said, I'm not going to argue with you. The rest is up to you!


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Ok you win, or at least you must be right. You've said it enough times!

Let's see: So far you have inaccurately quoted what I write, twice. You use hypothetical cases to prove your points so you must be right again with these assumptions.

How does one draw a conclusion that someone is anti-gun because they gave more money to democrats than republicans? I will tell you before you make any wrong assumptions that I have voted in every election since 1972 and have very rarely voted for a democrat. Say, is Senator Kent Conrad anti-gun? He's a democrat, so what do you think?

Anyway I'm still waiting for you to explain why it is better to pay with a money order rather than paypal. (without using a hypothetical example to explain your theory) Or do you just move on to the next point without explaining yourself.

Anyway it really doesn't matter. Tomorrow is back to work and my fun will have to wait til the next time I have nothing to do.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

www.gunsamerica.com


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## irish (Jan 18, 2004)

I have a long story about Pay Pal and Escam sorry ebay . For the people that have not had a problem great but sooner or later you will . My wife had a great side line of selling things for people on Ebay sold around 800 things some small problems but nothing big . Then about 3 months ago she saw some money transfers from our checking acc. About 5000.00 worth lots of calls to Pay pal many to bank lots to local police . That is were this all got to be news to us the local police told us that pay pal had a rep for giving out your info .Found out that pay pal is not like a bank and does not have to follow bank laws that instead they follow pay pal rules . After many hours of fighting and serving pay pal with leagle papers we got most of our money back . So before you say that you have never had problems with pay pal or ebay what you should say is yet ! Also ebays gun rules are the worst . Go to this web site to find out more on pay pal www.paypalsucks.com and belive the storys .

:2cents: Irish


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I was hit with the below scam letter within 60 days of opening a PayPal account.

Dear PayPal Member,

This email confirms that you have paid LWPELECTRONICS ([email protected]) $474.99 USD using PayPal.

This credit card transaction will appear on your bill as "PAYPAL LWPELECTRONICS*".

PayPal Shopping Cart Contents
Item Name: BRAND NEW NOKIA 8800 CELL PHONE
Quantity: 1
Total: $474.99 USD

Cart Subtotal: $454.99 USD
Shipping Charge: $20.00 USD
Cart Total: $474.99 USD

Shipping Information

Shipping Info: Bill Chang
202 N Magnolia Dr.
Saco, ME 04072
United States
Address Status: Unconfirmed
If you haven't authorized this charge, click the link below to cancel the payment and get a full refund.
Dispute Transaction
Thank you for using PayPal!
The PayPal Team

Of course the purchase was not mine. Obviously it was a attempt to get me to follow the directions to the dispute site and give my account information. But if PayPal is so secure as they claim and they don't give out information then how did someone get my email address and how did they know I had a PayPal account?


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## irish (Jan 18, 2004)

Thats the point you hit it on the head they are not secure at all !

Irish


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Gohon said:


> But if PayPal is so secure as they claim and they don't give out information then how did someone get my email address and how did they know I had a PayPal account?


The key is that they do not know that you have a Paypal account. It is just a classic "phishing" scam where they know that a certain percentage of recipients actually have a Paypal account and a very small percentage of them will fall for it and respond to the email.

It is the same deal with getting emails from Bank of America, Key Bank, etc. I do not have accounts there, but some people do. I still get the spam though.

Your email address was more than likely randomly generated by a "bot". They generate millions of addresses and send out millions of emails. The ones the that do not get bounced back as "address not found" are known as valid email addresses. Those lists of valid addresses are worth a lot of money to spammers.

As long as a small percentage of idiots fall for these phishing scams there will always be more spam.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

So would it be a good idea to periodically change our email accounts?


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

redlabel said:


> So would it be a good idea to periodically change our email accounts?


I can't really say. It would sure be a pain in the butt to do so. I just deal with the spam. Microsoft Outlook has a pretty good spam filter as do most ISPs these days. Mine just get moved into a seperate folder that I check every now and then.

Spam is just a fact of life. Just try to be very carefull about giving out your email address. If you post it online do something like

robert AT isp DOT com

There are bots that cruise webpages looking for the "@" and "." and harvest those emails too.

If you get a spam message and it has a link to "unsubscribe" never do it. That just confirmed your address too.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I also have a good spam filtering ISP and this particular email was trapped in my span box on the server. It never made it to my computer but I just found it odd that email did not appear until after I opened a PayPal account.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Oh boy... it's a Chinese SKS... it must be an evil "Assault Weapon"... Nobody would ever use such a weapon for anything but crime.

Friggin idiots... there is no AWB anymore, and the only reason Chinese SKSs are still not available is that they banned all importation of Chinese weapons after Tienanmen (personally, I'd love to have one of the dirt-cheap Chinese M1A copies). I understand limiting the liability for Ebay, but their policies just smack of an irrational fear of guns. I bought a bunch of re-pro Mosin stripper clips on there, but of course nobody could ever commit crimes with something that isn't an "assault weapon" :roll:.

A little off topic but:
There are 2 things I really hate when they come up in a gun argument: the generic term "automatic" when referring to a perfectly average semi-auto, and the term "assault weapon". They're both such a straw-man attack that the anti-gun people put up to make it seem like all people who support gun ownership actually support private ownership of everything including heavy machine guns... it serves no other point than to try to scare people into supporting their side of the argument... I HATE it.


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

7400 -

You're making a big deal out of nothing. They said you could relist your item without the words linking it to an assault weapon.

Ebay is a business, they can conduct operations however they want. Quit complaining, that's the beauty of capitalism, businesses working how they want to work.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Robert A. Langager said:


> redlabel said:
> 
> 
> > So would it be a good idea to periodically change our email accounts?
> ...


Great reply Robert...

Spot on accurate info. I wish others would take these words to heart. Never ever post your email address in any correspondence on the internet as one full address.... ALWAYS add spaces and use words in place of the "@" symbol and the word "dot". Never ever unsubscribe by clicking any links received in emails. If you want to unsubscribe, instead visit that page's main website and determine if it appears to be a legitimate brick and mortar business. If it is solely a "virtual" website with no physical address avoid clicking any of their links unless you are certain you know the product and/or they've been around long enough to have a solid rep.

Ryan


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Robert A. Langager said:


> There are bots that cruise webpages looking for the "@" and "." and harvest those emails too.


Very true. For what it's worth, I keep up and block the vast majority of these bots from Nodak Outdoors and my other websites. I HATE spam and combating it is more apart of running websites these days than ever.


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