# New Deer Rifle



## scoker (Oct 21, 2009)

I am looking for a good small caliber 1st deer rifle for my 6 year old son. We hunt in Ga. and I am looking for a single shot with scope maybe a 22-250 or 223 any thoughts
Thanks


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

They let 6 year olds hunt??? That is surprising,and nuts!


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

Maybe start out with a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun if he's mature enough, at least for 6-8 years..


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## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

WOW 6 soda cans and a daisy should suffice


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## makin it rain (Apr 2, 2009)

300 win mag should get the kid into hunting just fine


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

When my son was 6 yrs old he could handle the recoil of a 243, much better for deer than what you named. Problem was he could not hold the rifle so could only shoot off bench and bags.

givem a few more years and let them use a rifle/shot gun that allows them to recover more of the game they shoot at.

 Al


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

Although the .243 is my favorite whitetail round it's also the minimum caliber I'd use.

He might be able to handle a youth sized single-shot 20 gauge using slugs for ranges of 50 yds or less. No doubt recoil cud be an issue. 
Rossi made a 5 lber.










Potential accuracy problems aside...the youth handi is another possibility...










> The H&R Compact Handi-Rifle is a great first deer rifle. Despite
> its small size - at only 36 7/8 inches long and 6.75 lbs - it still
> packs more than enough punch to harvest white-tailed deer.


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## doubledroptine08 (Feb 8, 2009)

what type of hunting are you doing. ie. stand, walking, posting.

if stand the 22-250 would work its alot better than the 223. but if you can look at maybe a 7mm08 its a great gun.

:sniper: 
good luck to u and your son


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

What's wrong with taking a 6 year old hunting for deer?

Here's my son with his first doe at 6 years of age.....yep that's a 30-30!









Same age with my 22-250









Age 7 with his Rossi 223!









As long as they have practiced and both of you are confident, there shouldn't be any problems.....223, 243, 7-08 are all good starter calibers in my opinion!
If the kid wants to hunt then get out there and take him hunting......unless, maybe......they make kids a little tougher down here in TEXAS than they do up north? LOL


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

fesnthunner said:


> WOW 6 soda cans and a daisy should suffice


Agree, let be real 6 years old to be handling a rifle.

Yeah, I know the kid is something special, every parent thinks their kid is the greatest and never does anything wrong. Just ask any teacher, they will inform a parent of a childs behavior and parent will respond not my kid. Now who would the rest of believe the teacher or kid? That of course is a ratorical question and ignoring that the teacher is probably a democrat oke:


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

Maybe a 410 Handi-Rifle?

Depends a lot on the kid, I am sure some 6 yo kids will be quite capable and responsible hunters, and others will get you killed.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

What is wrong with taking a 6 year old hunting for deer?

Not a thing!

What is wrong with giving a 6 year old a loaded rifle and allowing him to hunt?

A WHOLE HECK OF A LOT!!!

You can't possibly think a 6 year old can comprehend the weight of the responsiblities that go with carrying a firearm. 6 year olds, I don't care how mature they may be, do not fully understand the consequences of their actions. Plus they have an attention span as far as I can spit.

Now having said that, I am sure if you can devote 100% of your time and attention to the 6 year old every thing would be just fine,MOST OF THE TIME. But that is one heck of a load of liability!!!!!

As far as kids being tougher in Texas......well, I wish I could find some of the "tough" guys from down there I played college football with. They couldn't stand up to one half of one winter, I guess there may be differing levels of "tough". :wink:


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

It goes without saying that a young kid shooting or hunting needs an adult's supervision and undivided attention. 
Is a certain 6 year old to young? It's his/her father's decision...not mine.
Having said that...here's a sobering article on young hunters...but also on deer drives.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29284464.html


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

By the way Deacon.....I am a parent and an Ag teacher. I teach hunter's safety courses and know when a kid is competent of shooting a deer rifle or not. He is learning safety, which is very important to me. Do I think he is the best shot or best hunter in the world? NO! He still has a long ways to go, but at least I've given him a good start. :wink:

I'm not just turning him loose in the woods without my supervision.....THAT IS STUPID! He is with me at all times and does not shoot unless he gets the ok from me. He is not capable of making long shots (I am very aware of this), but is capable of making 100 yds or less shots. I am hoping I am instilling a sense of responsible hunting in him at a young age. By that I mean not taking shots out of his range and taking shots that are feasible and ethical.

I didn't say all 6 year olds have the ability to go shoot a deer......some do, AND my son just happens to be one that does. I am a very proud parent to have a young man that does enjoy hunting and enjoys being in the woods with his dad! 8)


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

laite319 said:


> As far as kids being tougher in Texas......well, I wish I could find some of the "tough" guys from down there I played college football with. They couldn't stand up to one half of one winter, I guess there may be differing levels of "tough". :wink:


HaHa! Good point, but how long could you last in one of our summers? 110 degrees with no breeze and humid as hell! :lol:

By the way, my comment wasn't meant to be taken literally.....just to get a chuckle. :beer:


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

When my son was 6 he wasn't old enough by Michigan law to hunt, but they can tag along with add or another adult.
I did not own my own hunting land then so blinds were out of the question. I took my son out one afternoon when it is warmer, the next morning he wanted to go I told him no it was to cold that morning. Well the wife put her 2 cents in and the boy went. Wasn't out a half hour and was frozen and wanted to go. I took him back to camp messing up the whole morning hunt for me.
After that he had no desire to hunt deer stateing it was to cold. Today with the blinds we have on our property it would be no problem as we have small heaters we can use.

But now growen with 3 children and a wife in a god awful ecomeny he can not take time to hunt, or even aford it.

Then there is the story of the 17 year old picking out his birthday present of a shot gun.
He wanted and got a coach gun side by side. I tried to get him to pick some thing different to no avail.
At our sportsman club one of the stations on the clays course has the birds coming off a high hill behind you off to the right and land on the far bank of a pond. Six shooters at a time work the course, 4 of the ones in our squad told the son he would never break the birds at that station whit his gun, He didn't that day either. The second round found us with 4 different shooters 3 of which again told him he couldn't break the birds at that station with his shot gun. I told him to give the thing to me and broke all four birds but the damage was done. He told me on the way home he wasn't going to go shoot clays any more as he didn't need to hear his gun wasn't good enough even though I proved it was.

Now he doesn't hunt or shoot because he wasn't really old enough to handle the cold and the dumb talk of self proclaimed experts.

As stated tough is different in all things. Shooting deer at 6 with dad in a blind so the rifle can be rested on a window sill and dad coaching the shot and calming the child is a whole lot different than being alone and shooting a deer.

 Al


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

scoker, I hope we didn't scare you off or offend you. This thread reminds me of this one:



> How many internet forum members does it take to change a light bulb?
> 
> 1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed.
> 
> ...


My theory is nearly any centerfire 22 caliber and larger will take deer depending on the circumstances. The first two criteria would be how far will they shoot, and what bullets will they use. Third, and perhaps most important is the shooters capability. 
I would not hesitate to shoot a deer at 200 yards with a 223 that was loaded with Barnes X bullets. If your son can shoot well to 100 yards, and you limit his shots to 100 yards that caliber would do. Other calibers are better of course like the 243 with very low recoil, and he could perhaps also handle the recoil of a 260 Remington that would hammer a deer hard.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> By the way, my comment wasn't meant to be taken literally.....just to get a chuckle.


I know, that is why I put the winkie guy behind my statement 



> HaHa! Good point, but how long could you last in one of our summers? 110 degrees with no breeze and humid as hell!


I am guessing about 3.5 minutes before I melted, all you would find is my camo and my rifle!!!

I think the problem isn't so much the 6 year old, but which adult is with the 6 year old.

One on one in a blind or stand would probably be just fine, but my minds eye sees a 6 year old walking a slough or posting(even with an adult right there), and I run for cover!!


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## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

There is a lot more to consider than just the fact that your 6 year old can fire a deer rifle. Being a hunter safety course instructor doesn't neccessarily give you any insight into whether a 6 year old is comprehending, or how they are comprehending the taking of a life. I don't even think they let a 6 year old into hunter safety courses, not here anyway. I know in some states they are probably allowed to hunt under certain circumstances, but in my opinion it is to young for them to do the shooting. Good luck to you and your son.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

scoker said:


> I am looking for a good small caliber 1st deer rifle for my 6 year old son. We hunt in Ga. and I am looking for a single shot with scope maybe a 22-250 or 223 any thoughts
> Thanks


You guys have given him many good things to think about, but we should put more thought into what he really wanted to know. To often our first thought is other people are incompetent and don't know how to raise children. This thread turned into a six year old hunting ethics thread and not firearms information.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Thanks Plainsman, let's see if we can get back n track.

First of all yes the .223 can and has cleanly harvested many a whitetail deer. To help make that feat much smoother, a proper bullet needs to be put in the proper place on said whitetail deer.

Here is South Dakota our youth can not take the Hunt Safe Course until they are 12 (or will turn 12 before December 31st of that given year). With that said when both of my daughters completed their Hunt Safe Courses and could legally apply and get a Deer License they used a .223 for their first Deer.

At the time I had a Ruger KM77RP MKII .223 that was super accurate. I painstakingly worked up a load for the old 70gr. Speer Semi Spitzer. The end result was a load that would put 5 of those Speers into a 3/4" group at 100 yards (in my hands). With either of the girls shooting it, it was a 1 1/2" shooter.

While my youngest daughter never did get the opportunity to harvest a whitetail with that .223 (that's an entirely differerent story though) my oldest daughter did. The 70gr. Speer totally penetrated the large whitetail doe at 200 yards and the doe was down.

In later years I loaded the 64gr. Winchester Power Points in the .223 for whitetails. I was able to get about the same level of accuracy, and the on game performance was about exactly the same as provided with the 70gr. Speer. The 64gr. Winchester Power Point has a more sleek profile and a higher ballistic coefficient so it actually retained velocity and energy better than the 70gr. Speer.

Both of these bullets have worked quite well for me. The bullets were placed in the right place and the result was a whitetail harvested.

You already placed 100 yards as the limit, and that is a good thing. I think the .223 makes a good starter gun due to it's mild mannered nature. It doesn't produce a lot of recoil or muzzle blast and is actually quite an accurate cartridge with the right load. In my opinion the fact that the .223 is easy on the ears and easy on the shoulder allows new shooters to SHOOT IT BETTER than other cartridges and in the end put the bullet exactly where it needs to be.

There can be a lot more written on this subject. If funding is not a problem I personally would by the young lad a Rifle he can use for the rest of his life. If funding was not an issue I think I'd buy the young lad a T/C G2 Contender Rifle in .223, and as his matures adding additional barrels can keep him hunting with that very same first rifle.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

SDHandgunner, that's a very good idea bout buying a gun the person can use the rest of their life. Likewise I purchased 270's for my son's. Why wait until your dead for them to have something to remember you. If a person reloads all calibers can be loaded to a light recoil like some companies now offer.

I think the 52 gr X bullet is very good in a 223, and I have some 65 gr Sierra Game Kings that I think would work well also. Make no doubt about it SDHandgunner also had a good point about the low recoil helps young shooters put the bullet in the right spot, and a 22 caliber through the heart is better than a supermagnum through the gut.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Plainsman it is funny you should mention the 65gr. Sierra Game King Spitzer Boat Tails as I just worked up a load with that bullet in my Bushmaster for my wife to use this year. I was able to come up with a load that consistantly puts 5 of them into 1" groups at 100 yards.

Larry


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I know the 1 in 9 twist is supposed to shine with the 69 gr Match King, but mine doesn't. Or at least I have not found the right powder to go with it. However, H335 does great with the 65 gr Game King.

I related to your story about the 70 gr Speer also. I still have a box that my father used. He really liked the 308, but after a triple bypass he wanted to stay away from the recoil. Since his breast bone was wired back together recoil was not a friendly thing.


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## doubledroptine08 (Feb 8, 2009)

i load both the 65 gr. gameking and the 64 gr. powerpoint in my 22-250. havent shot anything with them yet but am confident they will work good luck to all with deer season fast approaching, always remeber saftey first no matter your age. :beer:

i do think that the G.K. or the powerpoint would work good in a 223, or that Xbullet too, dont have any expericance with those but have heard nothing but good. also the nosler partion works great thats a 60 grainer. :sniper:


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Two years ago I tried & tried to work up a good load with the 60gr. Nosler Partitions in a DPMS Panther Bull 20. I finally gave up after shooting up 150 bullets with several different powders.

I finally phoned and talked to one of the Techs at Nosler. As he explained it to me, he said that due to the small diameter of the .224 Partitions and the fact that the rear core on the Partitions is so hard, that in some rifles the driving band area of the bullet will not conform to the rifling as well and thus they just don't shoot good out of some rifles.

A couple friends has used the 69gr. Sierra Matchking Boat Tail Hollow Points out of a .223 AR-15 on Whitetails. They tell me this bullet is quite hard and with chest / lung shots they don't expand much at all.

One of these guys has switched to the 65gr. Sierra Gameking Spitzer Boat Tails and has had much better results, so I decided to give them a try.

Larry


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## doubledroptine08 (Feb 8, 2009)

well matchkings arent made to expand lol
but those gamekings should do an awsome job.


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## allcountryman1 (Nov 9, 2009)

A 6 year old is perfectly capable fo hunting deer. I killed my first deer at 5 with a marlin 35. My son is 6 and killed his first deer at 4 with a marlin chambered in 45 LC. So take your son hunting and dont think about what some of these idiots say. My son shoot the 45LC and 44mag marlin just fine and he is undersized for a 6 year old. He hunts squirles with a rossi 410 but I wouldnt use that for deer. 243 will work but has a little more recoil. Any carbin rifle in .357, 45, or 44 mag will do the job with little recoil. Good luck and keep posted if he gets one.


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

You will all notice that the thread originator has never responded, and most likely went elsewhere to ask his question. Can't say as I blame him after the reaming he got here.


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

Woodser said:


> You will all notice that the thread originator has never responded, and most likely went elsewhere to ask his question. Can't say as I blame him after the reaming he got here.


Maybe...but so it goes...any forum can be a little rough around the edges.


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