# Taurus Judge



## Curt Wells

I know zip about handguns but wanted to ask the opinion of those of you who are knowledgeable on the subject. What do you think of the new Taurus Judge. It shoots .45 Colt, .45 ACP and .410 shotgun shells. It appears to be a nasty weapon and it might be somewhat fun to own as well. What is the quality of this weapon? The Taurus website says the barrel is not rifled. Is that unusual and does it render the .45 caliber part of the weapon useless? Are Taurus handguns of high quality? As you can tell I'm just starting my research and don't know if it will lead to anything or not. Thanks in advance.


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## clampdaddy

I know first hand that Taurs is great about takeing care of its customers. They have a lifetime warranty on all of thier weapons and they are well built to begin with. The pistol you're refering to is one I really wish I could have but the BULL SHIFT gun laws in my state wont allow it. The fact that there isn't any rifleing in the bore of the barrel will definately shorten the range of the pistol when shooting 45 colt ammo but short barreled revolvers are short range weapons anyway.

You could load it with 410 shells carrying light bird shot for snakes and small game. Loaded with large buckshot it would make a VERY imposeing defense weapon. Or you could use 45 colt ammo for defence againced larger animals or as a cheap practice load. Another option would be to use 410 rifled slug loads wich might help any accuracy problems that may present themselves when shooting a single projectile down a smooth bore.

I cant really think of a more versitile hand gun.


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## Burly1

Welcome to the forum Curt. If you are looking for a target revolver...... The Judge isn't it. If you are looking for a self defense weapon that will do journeyman duty as a car gun, handling any and all two legged as well as pests and varmints at handshaking distances....you have found it. All the cartridges that The Judge will chamber are certified manstoppers at close range. Taurus warranty and strength of design are second to none. I don't think you could do much better. Good shooting, Burl


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

I checked out that Judge and I like what I see, seems like it would work well for things I like to do. I would like to play with one a little bit before I buy one.


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## MOGLEY

I have seen this gun on personal defense t.v show and it looks awesome. I thought however that it did have a rifled barrel as a selling point for using the 410 shells at close range. The wad follows the lan grooves helping it disperse so quickly in a large pattern. They show what it will do out a passenger window when shot fom the drivers seat. WOW! talk about not being able to miss!!.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Car jackers beware of the JUDGE :jammin:


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## detectotab

I bought an M-410 "Judge" about two months ago. Mine is blue (and the bluing is very brilliant and rich) Prior to this purchase, my usual carry was either my Kimber Ultra CDP II or Glock 22. THIS IS AN AWESOME WEAPON. The barrel is rifled, thus accomplishing good accuracy for the .45 LC rounds (good target placement at 25 yards) the special "ribbed" grips virtually eliminate recoil from the big rounds. I find #7 shells inadequate over about 7 yards. #6 will do much better. 000 buck will give you great results at 15 yards. Concealment holsters just aren't out there. Fortunately, we have a leathersmith nearby who can make anything you want while you wait, so I had a left hand concealment rig made on a Saturday afternoon, and the gun hides nicely. In South Kansas, one might encounter anything from a rattlesnake to a wacked-out "meth head" Therefore, my carry ammo consists of 2 rounds of #7 shot, 2 rounds of 000 and 1 round of .45LC. This should tame about anything you run across. I highly recommend this gun.


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## dakotashooter2

They are probably a decent short range utility gun but don't ask too much of them. Can assure you they are rifled otherwise they would be classified as a short barreled shotgun the BATF would be all over Taurus. 
Technically the only way these could be produced is if they will also chamber a rifle or pistol cartridge.

The verdict is still out on Taurus quality and service. Seems to be hit and miss. Both revolvers I've owned had some issues that I took care of myself rather than wait 6-9 months for Taurus to fix. From what I have heard in most cases "lifetime" warrantee means that is how long it will take to get it fixed. That said I have not yet heard of any issue with that particular gun.


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## dadogg

I have 2 taurus pistols a 9mm and a 22 revolver that I used to teach the kids to shoot. Both have been reliable now for over 15 years. I WANT A JUDGE as a snake charmer when I hunt


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## tthordarson

hi curt,check out the judge.i has a 1in 12 twist with 6 grooves.fairly accurate.very hard to get one. owen thordarson


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## wyocarp

Wow. I can't believe what I am reading. First, it is a Taurus which are known to 2nd rate guns. I bought a "judge" thinking it might be a fun gun to take out while hiking around. The 45 LC ammo works great in the gun but as for the .410 shells, be sure to use the smooth plastic casing. The rougher casings with grooves don't come out of the cylinder. The gun only uses 2 1/2" .410 shells which really limits the usable ammo selection. When using .410 shells, one really has to make sure the shells are pushed ALL the way down in the cylinder or it won't close. Numerous times the cylinder has not locked up.

This is not a defense gun unless attacked by paper targets or using 45 LC and then there are much better 45 LC pistols. This gun is a play toy and deserving of being called a serious gun.


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## hagfan72

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

Definitely NOT your first choice in a defensive pistol, but it would be better than nothing...


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## wyocarp

As an owner of one of these guns, I think it would be barely better than nothing.


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## hagfan72

So you're saying it is a more formadable self defense weapon if you threw it at the bad guy? :lol:

What do you use yours for, wyocarp? I would think it would be nice to have in snake country.


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## wyocarp

I definately feel it would be better to through it at the bad guy. One might want to pull the hammer back first that way it might at least scare the guy a little more when it hits him.

I bought it because of all the talk about it and thought it might be a fun gun for while out hiking around.


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## hagfan72

But how would it be against snakes do you think?


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## wyocarp

Well, are you talking about shooting the snakes with 45 LC ammo or the .410? I'm pretty sure that one could hit the broad side of a barn with .410 ammo but something smaller than that, I wouldn't expect it to kill anything. I need to try some different .410 ammo. I do know that it needs to be smooth plastic casing or the gun requires a hammer to eject the spent casings. The ribbed casings don't come out very easily.


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## hagfan72

Dang, sounds like this poor pistol has a LOT going against it. Yeah, I was envisioning a killer sidearm if you were out in rattlesnake country with .410 loaded up; kind of like the old "Snakecharmer" shotguns, only smaller.


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## Kaiser

I'm not real excited about the Taurus Judge for home defense after reading a number of responses.

I am looking for a home defense gun for my wife. She is comfortable with guns, as is a decent shot. However, the reality is, if the time should come when an intruder enters our home, I want my wife to have to point and click. That was my interest in the .410 shotshells. Of course she will aim, but I want a gun that will produce even if her shot is a little off.

Would folks give me information on other guns that would serve better for in-house self defense.

Thanks


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## hagfan72

Well, do you guys live in a house, apartment, or a trailer? I keep a shoutgun loaded with #4 buckshot. Enough at 10 feet to put a dirtbag down, yet not enough to penetrate walls too much.


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## Kaiser

We live in a house with young children, so although the shotgun option would be a stopper, with young kids a large loaded gun is more difficult to keep out of their reach. I was wondering about any other wheelguns with shotshell capacity. Perhaps I'm looking for something that isn't feasible?

What repercussions, not legal, more operational, does one face if he were to saw a shotgun down? How much could/should one take off, or would I be better off looking at buying a manufactured short?


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## hagfan72

Buy a legal one... :eyeroll:


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## wyocarp

BFR makes a 45/.410 pistol that allows the use of full 3" .410 shells instead of the 2.5" .410 in the Taurus. It is a much nicer pistol but of course it costs more as well.


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## Turner

hagfan72 said:


> Well, do you guys live in a house, apartment, or a trailer? I keep a shoutgun loaded with #4 buckshot. Enough at 10 feet to put a dirtbag down, yet not enough to penetrate walls too much.


Not enough to penetrate walls too much? I know a guy who had a 12ga #6 shot discharge in his basement and it went through the ceiling in the basement, upstairs floor, into a wall and the ceiling upstairs. #4 will definitely go through a few rooms if it only comes in contact with sheet rock.


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## hagfan72

Hhh, I said penetrate walls TOO MUCH, as in still lethal. Of course, birdshot will penetrate for a while, but will it have enough force to inflict mortal wounds? No, lot like 00Buck or a centerfire slug.


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## Csquared

I don't mean to butt in here, but you guys...Kaiser especially, have stumbled onto a point that I feel is very important.....actually several points.

First, Kaiser's dilemna illustrates EXACTLY why I've never recommended a handgun as a home defense weapon. He's talking about a wife who, I'm guessing here, probably doesn't shoot much, would be panicked as we all would if she actually felt the need to get the gun out, and would have very little chance at doing anything more than scaring the intruder away if she shot....except of course, as Hagfan touched on, of the very real possibility of shooting the neighbor asleep in his bed with an errant bullet!

I very strongly feel a shotgun loaded with duck and pheasant loads is the way to go. And as far as how to keep it safely at the ready? Well let me tell you how I safely got through three kids. I believe no one who is too young to know what they're doing is also smart enough or strong enough to close the action of a pump shotgun, and then unlock it to pump it again. So I had a 870 with no plug near my bed for years with 4 shells in the magazine and the action open. And trust me.....I could load that thing PRONTO! I did it once and I even surprised myself!

Now I obviously had to change tactics when the kids were old enough to bring friends over unsupervised, but it worked for a lot of years, and now that they're gone what do you suppose I see when I look to my right, just beside the headboard of my bed now?


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## Kaiser

Thanks for bringing me back to reality Csquared. You are correct.

In researching shotguns, the Rem 870 and Moss 590A1 seem to be the two guns to decide from. Does Moss. still offer the 590A1 to laymen or just LEOs? I do not see it offered on their website, but can find it for sale on other websites.

If Moss does not offer the 590A1 to laymen, that seems like it would present a problem if one were to ever need parts or even assistance from Moss.

What are your thoughts on these two guns?

I like the idea of an 18.5" barrel for size, but a 20" will accommodate 9 shots versus 6 shots in the 18.5".

I plan to keep the gun very simple, only adding a light

Thx


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## Meatwad

I have a Judge Polished SS and I think it looks great. I just am trying to change these "ribber" grips I think those are ugly as ever. I have put about 200 rounds through it no problems. The 45LC has no kick compared to the .410 rounds. I have shot the 7.5's, 6's, and 4's. I Use it as my carry gun right now and I am not the least bit worried about its power. My first shot is the number 4's followed by .45lc then one more .410 number 4 follwed by 2 x 45lc rounds. The thing I really like about it is how fast and smooth you can unload this thing. 2.2 seconds or so and the bad guy has 2 x .410 rounds in his face as well as 3 x 45lc's. Almost all of encounters will be within say 10 ft. This gun is perfect for that. I dont know if it was on this form or another that I read someone say get the thunder 5 its much better. Has anyone ever held one of those things? Its ugly as hell, it weighs 48ozs 10" long and its and bulky. I like the fact its made in the US and it holds some 3"shells. but thats about it.


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## hagfan72

Meatwad said:


> I like the fact its made in the US...


Really? I thought Taurus's were made in Brazil.

I suppose you learn something new everyday.


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## darkgael

Hagfan - I believe that the "made in the USA" comment was about the Thunder 5 pistol.
Pete


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## Meatwad

Yea, I was talking about the Thunder 5....Sorry if it wasnt clear enough to distinguish... Made in Tenn.


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## hagfan72

LOL, that's what i get for not reading a post thoroughly!! Thanks for correcting me guys. :wink:


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## Martydd

dakotashooter2 said:


> They are probably a decent short range utility gun but don't ask too much of them. Can assure you they are rifled otherwise they would be classified as a short barreled shotgun the BATF would be all over Taurus.
> Technically the only way these could be produced is if they will also chamber a rifle or pistol cartridge.
> 
> The verdict is still out on Taurus quality and service. Seems to be hit and miss. Both revolvers I've owned had some issues that I took care of myself rather than wait 6-9 months for Taurus to fix. From what I have heard in most cases "lifetime" warrantee means that is how long it will take to get it fixed. That said I have not yet heard of any issue with that particular gun.


I couldn't of said it any beter. Lets make that a quote !
LIFETIME MEANS = "HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET IT FIXED"
TAURUS GUNS SUCKS


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## gentleman4561

Kaiser said:


> I'm not real excited about the Taurus Judge for home defense after reading a number of responses.
> 
> I am looking for a home defense gun for my wife. She is comfortable with guns, as is a decent shot. However, the reality is, if the time should come when an intruder enters our home, I want my wife to have to point and click. That was my interest in the .410 shotshells. Of course she will aim, but I want a gun that will produce even if her shot is a little off.
> 
> Would folks give me information on other guns that would serve better for in-house self defense.
> 
> Thanks


Look at a 870 or look at the derringer line they only hold two shots but they are good guns. I have shot the judge it shoots nice and the recoil is not to bad i have never owned a taurus so i am not sure about quality and customer service. I iwn a 870 and love it with 00 buck know one can stop you.

Or if you have your class 3 and lots of money look at this one

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wg1pFNwTOE

lol :sniper: :sniper: :beer:


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## vpboat

I'm looking at mine right now. It definitely has a rifled barrel. This is the ultimate self defense pistol in my opinion. Unfortunately, I usually have to carry something small and lighter. However, I disagree with negative comments about this being a home defense gun. I think this is the perfect compromise for home defense. I personally keep 3 pellet buck shot in mine. However, 4 or 7 1/2 in close household situations (especially with the shorter barrel) is going to scatter and have a much more efffective "punch" than a long barrel shotgun. Come on, is 4 shot going to spread quicker out of a 3" barel or a 26" barrel?? Unless you have a "huge!!!" house, an intruder can grab the long barrel and disarm your wife before she could get the long barrel aimed. I don't really mean to sound harsh here. However, I just don't see the logic in any other alternative unless you have some unique situation.


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## vpboat

I agree, sometimes you get what you pay for. But, I've had just as much problems with Smith's as Taurus'. Have you ever tried to send a glock, berretta (made in Italy), or and HK for service. Better have it insured. I lost a $5,000 Berretta shotgun that needed service. Luckily I had it insured, but, the point is I knew I would probaly have to wait 6 months to get that shotgun back from Italy. 
I guess my point really is, if your self or home defense plan counts on only one firearm and when it needs service you are defensless???????????? You might want to rethink your plan!


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## vpboat

Csquared, I agree with your comments but think the Judge is a good home defense gun.
I just wanted to add a comment about children. If you raise your children to be scared of guns, they will be. My children would not touch a gun unless I told them to. They also would not think twice about a gun sittting on the counter any more than they would notice a knife, cup, or plate on the kitchen counter. Because they grew up with guns and were taught to respect them. I do have to say though that I lock them all up though. Why? I'm worried about their friends in today's world????


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## hmarshall

Wow.. thought about getting one.. not so sure after reading some of these posts. In regards to this one;



> "In researching shotguns, the Rem 870 and Moss 590A1 seem to be the two guns to decide from. Does Moss. still offer the 590A1 to laymen or just LEOs? I do not see it offered on their website, but can find it for sale on other websites."


Yes, the 590 is available to the layman. Yes it is hard to find at this time. Try googling impact guns, gilberts guns, gunbroker, they all have listings but most are out of stock. You want item #51663, or the 50663. A local shop was able to locate some so I know they are out there. Expect to pay around 450.00 for one. I got mine from aim pro tactical. Great folks and service. The weapon is a bit more expensive through them due to additional work, such a mag-porting and rehone force cone, etc.. check them out if looking for a superior tactical grade shotgun. And it is a true and stamped M590A1 receiver on theirs. I love mine, a fantastic get-down-to-business shotgun. Hope this helps..
HM


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## yecart341

I purchased the Judge 2 days ago . Never owned a revolver but from seeing it in the magazine had to have one. Fired it with both type rounds 45lc and 410 shell , Close quarters The Judge does what it was made for pesonal protection this is not a long range weapon. This is a weapoon to carry with you when walking to your car or in your home. The only drawback that I have is I cannot find a carrying holster for my weapon that looks nice . So if anyone else out here has one let me in where i can find one thanks. The weapon is very comfortable and little recoil with both rounds. I compared the shooting to my 45 rugger semi and enoy shooting the judge a lot better.


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## sixbit

Guys:

Saw the Taurs Judge awarded Handgun of the Year in American Rifleman (May 2008). I was interested by the design and throught it might make an alternate carry weapon to my Ruger .45 LC 7.5" barrel. That gun has served me well as a "woods" gun (I live in a rural area with lots of Forest lands) and on occasion as a carry weapon. No Griz in Kaleefornia, but we do have Mountain Lions in close. It also seemed (in the ultra lite model) that it would be better as a conceal/carry choice. I have carried my Ruger and it will conceal but you've got to wear a sport coat at least. Also, if you run out of ammo it makes a great club!

In any event, it seems if you get the Judge with the 3" cyl. you can use the 3" .410 shells. That sounds like it might make a good snake gun to carry (rattlers).

Have any of you actually seen anyone who has one of these to talk to them about it? No one around here has one or knows of anyone owning one and the gun stores don't have one in stock.

I bought my Ruger about 25 years ago after hearing lot's of positive comments and getting to fire both a 44 mag and a 45 lc the same day at the range. Personal choice was the .45 lc. Never regretted it and it is pretty darn good out to about 75 yards. After that it is long gun country.

Any recommendations appreciated. I hate wasting my post tax revenue!

Thanks,

sixbit


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## goosehunternd

I bought the judge to conceal when im backpacking in or setting up dekes. I was surrounded by coyotes last fall in a field in the middle of the night with no gun. I can tell you it wont happen this year, fun little unit


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## ranger7

Just bought a SS 3in barrel, 2.5 cylinder Judge 2 days ago. (Actually it's a birthday present from my wife.) Fired several rounds of 45LC and 410 birdshot so far. Accuracy with the 45LC was so-so. Thought the birdshot would be good for snakes or for small game at close range for a possible survival situation. (Used to shoot rats with 22LR shot from a revolver in my father's chicken house. The 410 shot shells should be much better although much louder and more expensive.)

Spent a few hours this afternoon looking for the buckshot. Found some Sellier & Bellot at the last store of seven. Several of the other stores have previously stocked Winchester. Two of them promised to order some for me. I plan to keep a stock of 50 to 100 rounds of 000 buck on hand since it's hard to find. (Every store I went in, they said I was lucky to find a Judge. Most stores only see one every month or two and have waiting lists.)

I was a little disappointed with the low penetration results of the buck shot in the Box O' Truth reference http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm 
I plan to do some of my own penetration tests of the buckshot at 3 to 10 feet from the muzzle - more like a car jacking distance.

Most of my revolvers are either Smith or Ruger although I have a couple of Taurus semi-autos which have been really good for me. I know quite a few people who have had good results from Taurus revolvers and I don't expect problems from this one.

It seems to be a fun range gun and in a pinch would consider it for home or car defense although I currently have what I feel are better guns for that purpose.

Ranger7


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## ranger7

Had a chance to do just a short penetration test today. I used "poor man's ballistic gelatin" actually phone books saturated with water. I tightly bundled three books that were each about 3 inches thick after soaking.

I fired 5 two and a half inch Sellier & Bellot 000 buckshot rounds into the phonebook pack at about 6 feet from the muzzle. All the buckshot made it through the first book and none made it to the thrd book. Penetration was between 4 and 5.5 inches in the waterlogged paper. My opinion is that three pellets penetrating this far with each shot is not trivial.

How exactly waterlogged phonebooks compare to flesh, blood and bone, I leave to your interpretation. Bear in mind that penetration in a human body will vary greatly depending on where the shots hit and numerous other factors.

Again, the Judge shooting buckshot is not my first choice as a self-defense weapon but I wouldn't be too hard on someone else using it for self-defense. YMMV


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## ranger7

Assuming you find the Judge of some value to you, the biggest problem I see, is finding a good supply 2 1/2 inch Buckshot. The dealers I've talked to, recommend Winchester but the 2 1/2 in buckshot cartrdges are nearly impossible to find. I've burned up a lot of expensive gas checking out local stores. Of 8 or so gunshops, a few had shelf space for the Winchester but were out and didn't know when they'd get more. I spent a few hours researching places with a web presence and I may have found only one that has the Winchester in stock. (Waitng to see if my order is confirmed.)

Midway has S&B buck listed but it's out of stock, back order O.K.. I ordered 100 rounds for about $100 including shipping. The S&B works fairly well but it's tight loading and very tight ejecting - no good for tactical use.

If you can get a Judge with a 3" cylinder, the 3" buckshot is definitely easier to find. Not knowing about buckshot availability, I preferred the looks of the 2.5 inch cylinder. Will be glad I got the 2.5 if I can stockpile 100 rounds of the Winchester buck and locate a source that has it available to order.


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## hagfan72

Thanks for the info. For me, the Judge would be a great snake gun, nothing much more though. I hope you enjoy yours. By the way, does Taurus even MAKE a 3" cylinder version? I did not know that they did. Freedom Arms does, I believe.


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## sailordll

Appreciate everyones comments.

I was interested in the Judge with a 3 inch cylinder for taking with me bow hunting for deer as a deterent for Black Bear. Not sure the Judge meets my needs now. Seems under powered??

Does any one have any suggestions for a hand gun to carry when bow hunting. Only concern would be Black Bear (live in Wisconsin)

All comments are appreciated.
Thanks,
Daniel


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## Tram

Hey guys-

Just curious, wound up with two Judges today..

What is everyones preferred shells out of this thing in both .45LC and .410?

I've read it's best to use smooth jacketed .410 shells?


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## fsmith2610

What I carry in my Judge depends on the circumstances. In my nightstand or in my car I load with 1 round #4 shot, followed by 2 rounds 000 buckshot and then 2 rounds of 225 grain silvertips. All ammo is Winchester.

For practice I use whatever I can find which currently is WW 250 gr cowboy loads. From here on out I'll be reloading.

A couple of weeks ago I was in snake country collecting cactus shoes and cholla skeletons. I loaded all five positions with #9 shot.

The versatility of this revolver at close range is what makes it useful. Anything over 7 to 10 yards is out of range for this handgun for most shooters. But, for personal defense this range limitation is fine. My CCW instructor told us that in gunfights between a civilian and a bad guy, the distance is under 10 feet, total shots fired is 1-2 and total elapsed time is under three seconds. From this confrontation there emerges a winner and a loser and the Judge provides the opportunity to be on the winning side.


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## The Judge

I have owned a Taurus Judge for the past 6 weeks now. In response to previous posters claiming it is unrifled & that the Taurus website states this as well: Not true. It most defintely is rifled, both the 3" & 6.5" barrel versions. I've researched their website extensively & haven't anywhere where it states that is is unrifled. I've also spoken to the Customer Support dept at Taurus U.S. HQ in Florida, asking them about firing rifled .410ga slugs thru the Judge with its rifled barrel.....normally a no-no. They assured me that firing occassional rifled slugs would not be damaging to the gun due to the soft lead slug & relatively short barrels of the Judge revolver. However, they didn't recommend extensive use of them. On the other hand, if you can find 2.5" unrifled .410ga slugs there are no limitations, except for your physical endurance. The .45LC round shoots just fine, as does any of the .410 shot shell rounds.


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## Picketeer

yecart341 said:


> I purchased the Judge 2 days ago . Never owned a revolver but from seeing it in the magazine had to have one. Fired it with both type rounds 45lc and 410 shell , Close quarters The Judge does what it was made for pesonal protection this is not a long range weapon. This is a weapoon to carry with you when walking to your car or in your home. The only drawback that I have is I cannot find a carrying holster for my weapon that looks nice . So if anyone else out here has one let me in where i can find one thanks. The weapon is very comfortable and little recoil with both rounds. I compared the shooting to my 45 rugger semi and enoy shooting the judge a lot better.


Here's mine, what do you think?


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## DeadAt40

A lot of people have pointed out percieved short falls of this gun, however there really aren't any problems here if you need a gun for shooting people, animals or targets. If you need pure stopping power well? What is stopping power? Stopping Power is 1. Fear 75%, 2. Actually Physical Pain 24%, and 3. Total Loss of Blood Volume 1%. This being said, you can see that 99% of all targets will be stopped no mater what bullets you use. The only targets that won't stop are either 1. Guarding Cubs, 2. Rabid, or 3. Doped up (2 legged only). If you insist on Total Loss of Blood Volume, than 45 Colt will work just fine, as long as you can be accurate in double action, or have time to cock before pulling the trigger. Another aspect of #4 shotshell that should be brought out is that face shots at close range with this gun are really easy, and even though this may not stop your target, without that liquid stuff in his eyballs your perps attacks will become very ineffective. I have to admit that this is not the only gun that I carry, I also carry a 9mm Beretta PX4, however my Judge is on my strong side.


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## Plainsman

Hollywood really has no grasp. I was watching a show Sunday night I think it was. A drug dealer had a concealed Judge. Hollywood was demonizing it, but they said the name of the gun was the Jurry. Well they had it within the courtroom anyway. What a bunch of idiots.


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## tommyv69

DeadAt40 said:


> A lot of people have pointed out percieved short falls of this gun, however there really aren't any problems here if you need a gun for shooting people, animals or targets. If you need pure stopping power well? What is stopping power? Stopping Power is 1. Fear 75%, 2. Actually Physical Pain 24%, and 3. Total Loss of Blood Volume 1%. This being said, you can see that 99% of all targets will be stopped no mater what bullets you use. The only targets that won't stop are either 1. Guarding Cubs, 2. Rabid, or 3. Doped up (2 legged only). If you insist on Total Loss of Blood Volume, than 45 Colt will work just fine, as long as you can be accurate in double action, or have time to cock before pulling the trigger. Another aspect of #4 shotshell that should be brought out is that face shots at close range with this gun are really easy, and even though this may not stop your target, without that liquid stuff in his eyballs your perps attacks will become very ineffective. I have to admit that this is not the only gun that I carry, I also carry a 9mm Beretta PX4, however my Judge is on my strong side.


You stole my post! 

I just finished reading posts on this gun going back to december, and the negativity wreaks of A)screwing up by buying ribbed 410s (they will stick) or B)paranoia.

The only way this gun is not stopping someone who needs to be stopped is if your target is looped up on meth/crack - and in that case, nothing short of a 44 mag or 12 gauge (etc,) at close range will put him down. So, balance that against the need for some spread/room for error and the fact that the Judge sells for $400 (polished ss - so pretty) and is a handgun. This is the perfect self/home defense weapon.

Also, to the gent that was looking for a home-defense weapon for his wife - there is not another handgun on the market more effective under $500 dollars.

Do you want her going for a medium-framed handgun or a 18.5-20 inch 870 that is infinitely more cumbersome to aim/shoot?

My wife has this gun loaded/uncocked/safetied and nearby anytime she is home alone. I feel sorry for anyone that tries.

As far as being concerned w/ the kids - gun ownership and kids means you must hyper-vigilant w/ safety, and as one other poster pointed out, you must orient your children w/ guns. The risk is w/ their friends.


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## tommyv69

DeadAt40 said:


> A lot of people have pointed out percieved short falls of this gun, however there really aren't any problems here if you need a gun for shooting people, animals or targets. If you need pure stopping power well? What is stopping power? Stopping Power is 1. Fear 75%, 2. Actually Physical Pain 24%, and 3. Total Loss of Blood Volume 1%. This being said, you can see that 99% of all targets will be stopped no mater what bullets you use. The only targets that won't stop are either 1. Guarding Cubs, 2. Rabid, or 3. Doped up (2 legged only). If you insist on Total Loss of Blood Volume, than 45 Colt will work just fine, as long as you can be accurate in double action, or have time to cock before pulling the trigger. Another aspect of #4 shotshell that should be brought out is that face shots at close range with this gun are really easy, and even though this may not stop your target, without that liquid stuff in his eyballs your perps attacks will become very ineffective. I have to admit that this is not the only gun that I carry, I also carry a 9mm Beretta PX4, however my Judge is on my strong side.


You stole my post! 

I just finished reading posts on this gun going back to december, and the negativity wreaks of A)screwing up by buying ribbed 410s (they will stick) or B)paranoia.

The only way this gun is not stopping someone who needs to be stopped is if your target is looped up on meth/crack - and in that case, nothing short of a 44 mag or 12 gauge (etc,) at close range will put him down. So, balance that against the need for some spread/room for error and the fact that the Judge sells for $400 (polished ss - so pretty) and is a handgun. This is the perfect self/home defense weapon.

Also, to the gent that was looking for a home-defense weapon for his wife - there is not another handgun on the market more effective under $500 dollars.

Do you want her going for a medium-framed handgun or a 18.5-20 inch 870 that is infinitely more cumbersome to aim/shoot?

My wife has this gun loaded/uncocked/safetied and nearby anytime she is home alone. I feel sorry for anyone that tries.

As far as being concerned w/ the kids - gun ownership and kids means you must hyper-vigilant w/ safety, and as one other poster pointed out, you must orient your children w/ guns. The risk is w/ their friends.


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## DeadAt40

I've noticed that a lot of people seem to want one of these to kill snakes. Probably about 8 people were killed by snakes last years, most had advanced HIV or Diabetes or some other pre-existing medical condition. Mabee you should save your money and get a can of raid instead, probably about 100 people got killed by bug bites and stings. I saw 18 snakes in my yard last month and I didn't kill any of them, and I already own one of these guns. I rarely see a poisonous snake here, and when I do it's usually only a Cotton Mouth. I do try to catch those just so my dog don't end up having to deal with them, but I only move those about 1000 feet down the creek. If they come back they take a chance of getting picked up again and I know that they hate that. I always put them in about the same place, in case times get rediculously bad I know where to go for free meat. Cotton Mouths get really fat looking. That's one way to know what they are. They really are fat. Even when they are baby's they look kinda fat. The only ones that I would want to kill would be the ones that get in my house, or my sleeping bag, and I'm not about to shoot any gun in my house. In fact the only time that a snake getting in my sleeping bag bothers me is if I'm in it myself, and I really ain't shooting any snake while I'm sharing a sleeping bag with him. I hear that Coral snakes are common around here, but I've never seen one. I would probably kill one of those, and from what I hear they are too small to eat. Mabee if you boil one long enough you could eat the bones and all.


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## ranger7

Deadat40,

Agree with most of your comments about snakes. I prefer to live and let live for most of them but don't appreciate venomous snakes in my living areas. Cottonmouths aren't around my part of the country much but I've read some pretty horrible stories of the tissue damage that results from their bite.

Hope things are getting back to normal in Pass Christian after Katrina. (My daughter spent a week there last year doing storm cleanup/rebuild with a church group from here in PA.)

I still like my Judge. Have shot it a few more times. The Winchester Buck has quite a bit of recoil in the Judge. I don't think my wife would choose to shoot it at all, but some people are more recoil sensitive than others. I ended up finding all the Winchester No. 4 buck I wanted at Cheaper Than Dirt. I stocked up with what is probably a lifetime supply for me.

Also seeing lots more Judges in gunshops in the last few weeks. Taurus must have really ramped up production lately. When I bought mine, they were really hard to find.


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## goatspeed

I finally landed a SS 3" chamber magnum version Judge. The fella at the gunstore where I got it said it's the hottest/hardest to get pistol going now. I believe him, it took me long enough to find one (that wasn't jacked up in price). That's really something! A wheelgun is more in demand than some fancy Glock or the like.

Something I noticed in the last 6 or so months that I've been "following" the judge...it's bringing 410 ammo back. When I initially looked at 410 ammo to see if the gun was worth buying, I only found #7 shot, 000 buckshot, and rifled slugs at such places at Cabelas, Sportsmen's Warehouse, and some of the smaller shops in the Minneapolis metro area. Fast forward to now, all of the shops where I go big and small have 410 ammo in 2.5 and 3 inch varieties with 5-6 different # shot.

My Judge is in the mail, still awaiting its arrival at my local dealer. It should come by Saturday. I can't wait to have some solo clay pigeon fun!


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## hagfan72

DeadAt40 said:


> If you need pure stopping power well? What is stopping power? Stopping Power is 1. Fear 75%, 2. Actually Physical Pain 24%, and 3. Total Loss of Blood Volume 1%. .


Buddy, I have NO idea what you are smoking, or what website you have been browsing, but you are way WAY off base. One shot stops rely on neurological shutdown plain and simple. Show me a street thug that is stopped by pure fear alone and I will show you a rookie street thug.

Blood loss by an attacker will not save your life ever! It takes a femoral artery or a jugular artery severed to bleed out in any sort of quick fashion, and by the time the guy bleeds out, he will have had time to butcher you AND your family. Please, do not come on here and throw around BS and shady science!!

As far as physical pain goes, there are NUMEROUS accounts of pain being a non-factor when it comes to adrenaline and attacks! Pain is a non-factor when dealing with a street predator.

And as far as fear, most punks on the street fear having to get a JOB than they do of you and your little shotgun in your hands.

No, if you want an effective self-defense weapon, you need one that can reach to the neurological center of the human body (brain, spine, heart, etc) and do tremendous and permanant damage. Bird shot is for birds.


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## goatspeed

hagfan72 said:


> No, if you want an effective self-defense weapon, you need one that can reach to the neurological center of the human body (brain, spine, heart, etc) and do tremendous and permanant damage. Bird shot is for birds.


At some point bird shot is good self defense. There are better self defense loads than 12ga #7 birdshot, but in 3" magnums in your Remmington 870, that's a fine defense load. Also, it's easy to hit a target with shot vs a shell. Noone is going to deny that a .44 to the head or through the spine isn't completely incompasitating, but we don't have to deal in absolutes here to be "right".

Shot makes up for what it lacks in penetration with ease of aim. There have also been reports of people being shot in the face only to have a bullet exit missing nerve centers. A bird shot blast to the face burns and blinds.

With that said, at what point isn't bird shot good enough? Based on the "box o truth" video, #7 2.5" shelled bird shot only penetrates 2" when fired from the snubby judge. I'd like to see what #4 or #2 does. I'd like to see the long barrel 2.5" chamber judge or the 3" chamber magnum with #4 shot. Do you think at that point it would be a viable defensive load by your standards?


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## tommyv69

Curt Wells said:


> I know zip about handguns but wanted to ask the opinion of those of you who are knowledgeable on the subject. What do you think of the new Taurus Judge. It shoots .45 Colt, .45 ACP and .410 shotgun shells. It appears to be a nasty weapon and it might be somewhat fun to own as well. What is the quality of this weapon? The Taurus website says the barrel is not rifled. Is that unusual and does it render the .45 caliber part of the weapon useless? Are Taurus handguns of high quality? As you can tell I'm just starting my research and don't know if it will lead to anything or not. Thanks in advance.


The Judge does NOT shoot 45 acp.


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## DeadAt40

A gun is a gun is a gun as long as the quality is there. The important thing is to make sure that the gun that you choose is the right one for you. If you can't shoot a 12 guage shotgun than that would be a bad choice for you.







You can do a very good job of defending yourself with a .22 if that's what you are comfortable with. If you are comfortable with a 410 than this gun is perfect for you. One thing to keep in mind, Auto pistols jam. That's just a fact. You can reduce the risk of a jam quite a bit with nothing more than knowledge of your weapon and a good cleaning and oiling program. However Revolver problems are almost nonexistent, and when you do experience a problem, it can always be fixed single handed, and that's with no cleaning or oiling program at all. I would rather have a 45 caliber Colt 1911, but I have never been able to hit anything with a 1911. Same experience with a .357. I carry a 9mm auto, and I have full confidence in this weapon, and am also quite proficient with it. But when in a tight spot I'll always reach for my Judge first. I know I'll never miss, plus my last 3 rounds are all 45colt. I've read all of the bad press about the 45colt and I can tell you that it's an extremely powerfull round, and the gun is extremely accurate at legal distance. If you shoot anyone in self defense at more that 10 yards plan on going to prison. The Taurus Judge is an extremely high quality, accurate weapon with all kinds of ammo options. Best self defense gun on earth bar none. Prior to the Judge I always recomended a 38 special revolver.


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## cwoparson

hagfan72 is right. There is some really bad information being spread here and it could cost someone their life if they believe it. Anyone remember the Vice President shooting his buddy in the face and neck with a 28 gauge? He's doing just fine today and he walked out of the field to a waiting ambulance. Even a 44 magnum is of little value if there is not sufficient penetration and disruption to the nervous system.


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## Plainsman

If I was more ambitious I would dig through 20 years of Gun and Ammo or Shooting Times etc. but I just can't get myself to do that. 
I think it was Massad Ayoob that has data from 10,000 shootings, mostly law enforcement. It includes all calibers. I may be off one or two percent, but his is how it goes:
25 auto 40% one shot stop
380 56% one shot stop
9mm 63% one shot stop
38 special 64% one shot stop
45 Colt 72 percent one shot stop
158 gr 357 mag 85% one shot stop
125 gr 357 mag 95% one shot stop
45 auto 965 one shot stop

The 10mm and the new 40 cal were not available when the article was written. I think the data was from 1920 through 1990.

Like cwoparson said a small gauge and a shot across the room and the guy will probably gut you if you don't shoot him in the face. I wouldn't want to be hit with it myself, but after watching training movies of a guy taking 13 rounds from a 9mm and still killing to federal agents after I want something that puts them down. I traded off my 380 for a little larger Springfield Armory XD 45 a month ago.


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## hagfan72

Here is a link to an article that breaks down various calibers as well as various bullets offered in those calibers and their respective one-shot stopping ability.

http://www.internetarmory.com/handgunammo.htm

Pretty good, Plainsman, quoting from memory. Wish I had a brain that large. :wink:


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## ringoblood

sniper: this is for all of the morons out there bashing the taurus judge. for all of those who keep talking about the limited penetration of the shot shells i offer this. i have worked in an emergency room for over 16 years and let me just say that no matter how hopped up a perp is on whatever drug from meth to coke if ya take out his eyes he aint gonna do much harm. do you doubters have any idea what 3 inches of penetration does to an eyeball. at 10 to 12 feet it is really hard not to take out the eyes with #' 4, 6, or 7 shot. a few years ago i had a guy come into the er after being shot with a .44 mag, and the guy who did the shooting came out a lot worse than him. sometimes to much penetration is worse than when the lead actually stays in the body.


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## Cleankill47

hey, ringoblood,

Why don't you try and shoot a sporadically moving target ten to twelve feet away that is four inches across and one inch high (the average span of both human eyes) and let me know how you do. Sorry, but I don't want to limit myself to being able to only stop someone by shooting them in the eyes, people move, you know. Especially if they mean you harm.

Not to mention the lawsuit that could be brought against you for purposely maiming the perp to total blindness, a lifelong disability. I'd rather put a few well-placed 230-grain JHP bullets to the perp's chest, center-mass, which is much easier to find in your sights in low light. If you are prepared to shoot someone, then you had better be ready to kill them. I'm sick of hearing things like that. "I'll just shoot him in the eyes, or the leg, or the arm..." You do that to somebody, there's gonna be a lawsuit, guarantee it.

And yes, overpenetration is a bad thing, that's why you buy and use the proper weapon and ammunition for your situation.

Just because people don't like the Judge doesn't make them morons.

:sniper:


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## ringoblood

This is why i used the term moron. first off i did not say that anyone who does not like the judge is a moron. i did actually have to shoot someone who broke into my house in 1994. i did it with a .38 special, and let me tell you that i would much rather have had a pistol that gave a two feet spread to hit him with rather than one single piece of lead. shooting a paper target versus a human target is not as easy as it sounds. so you go ahead and use your 230 and take your chances, but as for me i will take a pattern spread any day. by the way having to explain myself in a court of law for shooting the eyes out of a guy that just smacked me in the face with a pipe ( which actually happened ) while in my house is of no consequence to me. bottom line is if you come into my home and assault me while trying to steal what i have earned, youre gonna get more thsn one shot from the judge. dont be a moron dude. fifty number 4 shot pellets flying at you multiplied times five, at ten feet away, is better than trying to hit a moving target with five single pieces of lead. do what ya gotta do dude, and i will do the same.


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## Cleankill47

I didn't mean to sound apprehensive in my last post, but it just seemed like you were targeting people who didn't like the Judge.

Actually, my Glock holds fourteen pieces of 230 grain jacketed lead, but I absolutley see what you're talking about. Especially when having chosen something that holds five rounds.

Well, I have been trained for moving, close- and medium-range targets, so maybe it's different for me, but it's definitely good that you came out of that one okay. Maybe you should think about getting a nice Mossberg 500 or Maverick 88 pump with a 20" barrel, folding pistol-grip stock, and a 2-shell extension. Keep it loaded with 00 buckshot and you'll always have seven rounds of something handy for home defense. Just move it room to room with you, I always do, because you just never know when something will happen...

:sniper:


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## DeadAt40

I don't know what I was thinking when I said that The Judge was a good self defense weapon. What I meant to say was if you are in your bedroom at night, you absolutly have to have a 12 gauge, and a 38 special revolver. If you are anywhere else in your house, you need to have at least one Glock 45 within reach. If you are in your car you need to have a 357 magnum. If you are in the mountains hunting humans you are a fool if you don't bring an AK47. Another thing, make sure to read all issues of "Soldier of Fortune" from the 1980s, that way you will have a reasonable balanced understanding of self defense. There I said it now will you all like me.


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## dpstainless

JUDGE AMMO >>>>> I have seen alot of comments about OO *buckshot 2 1/2" ammo *... I just bought , today, OO buck 2 1/2" at WALMART.... ive looked elsewhere, but they HAD it , in stock $ 5.27 for 5 rounds..... they had about 30 boxes on the shelf...

they also had plenty of rifled slugs... 1830 FPS... just fyi,,,, Havnt shot my ss judge yet... but looking forward to it.....

and for the record... I got it as my 40th b-day present.....


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## goatspeed

Every time I go to look at/buy ammo, I see more 410 options. Like I said earlier, this gun is bringing back 410 ammo. Well I suppose it never went anywhere, but there is nice variety now for both 2.5" and 3" at the places I shop.

The 3" shells kick like a mule, and they are loud as hell, but I like it.


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## yooper77

Curt Wells,

Just to let you know, the Judge cannot shoot the 45 ACP cartridges. It only handles 45 Colt and 2 ½" or 3" 410 bore shotgun shells depending on the model.

I feel the gun is more of a novelty, there are better choices to consider.

yooper77


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## 22304

See www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm

My humble opinion is you should always test something extensively that you're betting your life on.

There are several issues: accuracy, lethality, and safety.

1. Accuracy. Take a shotgun out to the range and shoot it at the max distance in your home. Most rooms are 10-15 feet. The spread at that distance is 2-3 inches and you're putting wadding into the target. It is a myth that you cannot miss with a shotgun; I've seen lots of folks do it. If you can find an indoor range that handles shotguns, shoot it in the dark without hearing protection (you'll only do this once)(look for low recoil, low flash tactical ammo). If you want accuracy at 0300 then mount a laser (you might be able to index a rail or barrel mounted light with a tape dot or crosshair, but, as always, test, test, test).

2. Lethality. Birdshot would create a shallow wound. Only 000 will penetrate to vital areas well. The FBI penetration specs assume the worse case (a side shot). I think there is an argument that a bad guy's motivation would be somewhat reduced if hit with bird shot at 10 feet, especially if hit in eyes or heart. 

3. Safety. Sheet rock is very, very brittle and fragile. Larger projectiles will go a long way. .223 will go through 4+ walls in actual tests with test walls 10 feet apart. Even so-called Safety Slugs may penetrate. Therefore, family tactics are important if you're shooting inside the house (aside from putting a hole in your refrigerator, heat pump, LCD TV, etc.).

The Judge would be good for snakes only at snake bite distances. Again, set up a target and test. The Judge only has a rear groove sight.

I realize there are a lot of strong opinions about calibers and effectiveness. Always good for heated monologues over a beer. The only thing that counts are results you can measure. Don't waste your breath until you have a shot target to show.

There is a 4th issue about surviving the court case after you shoot somebody, but that is way too complicated for a note.


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## cdustyl

I am looking at getting a Blackhawk holster for my Taurus Judge. I like the Blackhawk holsters with the serpa lock, but it does not have a strap to go over hammer. I am concerned that the hammer could accidentally be engaged causing the gun to fire while holstered. Does anyone know if the serpa lock prevents the trigger from traveling back and firing if pressure were to be applied to the hammer?

By the way, I love the Taurus Judge.


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## jakeblues

I personally love my 6 1/2" Judge. I mostly just take it out to a field for some fun but i keep it handy when home, along w/ my 1911 and a Stoeger Coachgun, in home i would most likely rely on the latter 2 guns(I actually didn't keep my judge in my house near my school until a few weeks ago because of cops showing up in my front yard twice in one week because of reports of a prowler, who had apparently been targetting a local cop's mom! so i decided a little extra firepower never hurt anyone), i plan on buying a 3" magnum judge to keep in my pickup soon, because I frequent Jackson, which as of a few years ago(not sure about current standings) was the #3 most dangerous city in the country. I have also found a leather holster on the cabela's website that will fit the 3" barrel length judge, and its not too terribly unnattractive but I would definitely go for the Serpa holster personally.

If someone is looking for a round that wont penetrate walls, and does some hardcore nervous system shutdown damage then I would recommend extreme shock ammo, I haven't had a chance to try it yet, but the videos on the website(i found by googling) certainly look promising, I have also read reports of the 9mm round taking out 400+ lb wild hogs with one shot. So anyone worried about the in home safety factor without sacrificing stopping power I would definitely check this stuff out.


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## cdustyl

Exactly how long is the barrel of the longer Taurus judge?


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## jakeblues

the longer barrel model is 6 & 1/2"...long enough to make it impossible to find a quality holster for it.


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## algadster

There's a lot of negatives and positives that are based on a lot of personal opinion but for close range I don't think you can go wrong with the Judge. You can go on and on about what you think is best. If it's broad daylight and I have time to acurately line up my sights a S&W 357 model 686 is perfect. But let's face it, I'm 56 years old and have never shot anyone in defense and probably never will. I would think under conditions that include unlit areas at night or shooting from a car interior the Judge has an advantage over what you can take to a range and zero in on a 1-1/2" grouping. I have a judge, mine is a rare 4" barrel with a blue finish. Just load it like I do so the first round is a .410 so you won't miss. Then make the rest 45 long colt shells. If they don't turn and run after being hit with the .410 then a couple of 45 colts on a stunned target will knock them down, maybe even fatal. What you do with the last two shots you'll have to answer to yourself for.


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## jakeblues

unfortunately those last 2 shots arent about answering to yourself as you said. Because unfortunately we live in a f*cked up world, and one of our judicial shortcomings is that if the attacker isnt killed then the person who is simply defending themselves can be sued or even prosecuted. A few years back my uncle(who is blind) was having a lot of break-ins at his jackson home while he was working at his radio station, so my grandfather got tired of being called up there by ADT and paying to replace the kicked in door, so he told the sherrif's deputy on the scene that he was going to sit facing the door w/ his side-by-side 20ga in his lap and wait, the deputy told him that would be fine, but if the guys came in he'd better shoot to kill, cuz if he didnt, 80+ years old or not, he would be the one in trouble. Now with the castle doctrine in effect in MS i'm not sure how that would be affected, but that was the case just 5 or so years ago.


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## dropcop

Curt Wells said:


> I know zip about handguns but wanted to ask the opinion of those of you who are knowledgeable on the subject. What do you think of the new Taurus Judge. It shoots .45 Colt, .45 ACP and .410 shotgun shells. It appears to be a nasty weapon and it might be somewhat fun to own as well. What is the quality of this weapon? The Taurus website says the barrel is not rifled. Is that unusual and does it render the .45 caliber part of the weapon useless? Are Taurus handguns of high quality? As you can tell I'm just starting my research and don't know if it will lead to anything or not. Thanks in advance.


 

Curt
I own a Judge 4510 Gander Mountain Exclusive. First let me correct one thing. The judge does not fire 45 ACP, this round is to short for the weapon and would probably cause a major jam in the cyllinder.
Secondly after firing it I was impressed as it makes a nasty hole with a 2.5 inch slug at 15 ft. The wads will also hit the target at he same distance leaving holes in addition. As a self protection weapon just getting hit by the wad will leave a nasty bruise.
There are various loads available including 410 lead slugs, 45 long colt as well as various 410 shot and 000 buck for both the 2.3 and 3 inch (3 BBs in the 2.5 and 5 in the 3 inch magnum).
My 4 inch barrel will keep a 2.5 to 3 inch group with 410 slugs and a little over 3 to 3.5 with the 45 colt. The 45 is not as accurate but I generally keep my loaded with 2.5 inch 410 # 4 shot for home and personal defense. The Judge is my backup carry for my 45 1911 Colt. When in a close situation I would use the judge over the 45 as there would be less chance of striking an innocent bystander.
Overall I would recommend you shoot one if you can and make the decision from there.
One other thought if you hunt as I do it's also good as a snake gun while your walking the fields and woods.

Good luck and hope this gives you some insight. Happy shooting-Dropcop : :sniper: [/b]


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## dropcop

jakeblues said:


> the longer barrel model is 6 & 1/2"...long enough to make it impossible to find a quality holster for it.


 :-? Not true there are numuros holsters available for the judge. Do a search for "Holsters for th Judge" i have found anything from a hip holster to ankle holsters for the 3 and 4 inch Judges as well.

There are various models out there as well from DAO bobbed hammer, only available from Gander Mountain, and 4 inch specials from Bass Pro Shops. You have to look around to see what you like :sniper: Dropcop


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## mrbigtex

jakeblues said:


> unfortunately those last 2 shots arent about answering to yourself as you said. Because unfortunately we live in a f*cked up world, and one of our judicial shortcomings is that if the attacker isnt killed then the person who is simply defending themselves can be sued or even prosecuted. A few years back my uncle(who is blind) was having a lot of break-ins at his jackson home while he was working at his radio station, so my grandfather got tired of being called up there by ADT and paying to replace the kicked in door, so he told the sherrif's deputy on the scene that he was going to sit facing the door w/ his side-by-side 20ga in his lap and wait, the deputy told him that would be fine, but if the guys came in he'd better shoot to kill, cuz if he didnt, 80+ years old or not, he would be the one in trouble. Now with the castle doctrine in effect in MS i'm not sure how that would be affected, but that was the case just 5 or so years ago.


Laws have changed and times are different. If you follow any news at all you should have heard of the many cases lately of homeowners defending themselves or their property without any charges filed against them. A co-worker shot a fleeing thief at night after they broke into his truck and tried to steal a stereo. The perp survived a .44 mag shot and no charges were filed against the co-worker.

Bigger and badder isn't always best either. If there is an intruder and you have family sleeping in another room, you wouldn't want lead flying through walls. 2 or 3 quick shots at 20 feet or less with #4 will stop most all intruders. For the small percent that it wouldn't stop, there are still two available rounds of .45LC left to take them down at which point the first three rounds of #4 have put you at the advantage to place a cleaner shot.

I own a Judge and prefer to use it as defense inside my home. When it's dark and I'm awaken in the middle of the night, I want to be able to just point in the direction of danger and know I will hit it without lead flying through walls and God knows what else. Outside my home or car, I have others options I may choose.

As far as a holster for the judge, I have an Uncle Mike's Sidekick size 15 that fits it very well.

http://www.tacticalgunarmory.com/Uncle_ ... 8100-1.htm


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## jakeblues

ha i get your point about bigger and badder, but since i dont have family sleeping in another room thats not of my concern, and the houses on either side of mine are empty. And I do watch the news thats how i was aware that the situation you just mentioned would be covered under the castle doctrine. and i didnt mean it was completely impossible to find a holster, just one thats practical and looks decent, sorry for the confusion, because i already have a holster for it, and its along the same lines as those mentioned, thanks for the suggestions though


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## goatspeed

[email protected] said:


> See www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
> 
> My humble opinion is you should always test something extensively that you're betting your life on.


That box o truth writeup is good enough for sure, but he doesn't test the 3" judge. I own two 3" chamber judge magnums, and my dad owns a 3" and a 2.5". There is a big difference between the two. IMO the 3 somewhat obsoletes the 2.5. You get a much better selection of ammo. The 000 buckshot in 3" has 5 buckshot in it. The spread and pattern is much better on the 3". I don't have balistics gelatin like box-o-truth guy, but I know that my home defense load of 2 4#, 2 45LC, and 1 000 buckshot (in that order) is the best home defense load I can come up with.


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## TIFF2CHECK

I RECENTLY PURCHASED THE JUDGE... A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT THE RECOIL THOUGH. CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW MUCH OF KICK I CAN EXPECT? I'M KEEPING THIS ONE FOR SELF DEFENSE (IN HOME) ONLY.


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## goatspeed

TIFF2CHECK said:


> I RECENTLY PURCHASED THE JUDGE... A LITTLE NERVOUS ABOUT THE RECOIL THOUGH. CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW MUCH OF KICK I CAN EXPECT? I'M KEEPING THIS ONE FOR SELF DEFENSE (IN HOME) ONLY.


Heh, well do you have the 2.5 inch chamber, or the 3 inch chamber model? The 2.5 has alot of kick, and the 3 is nuts. For me, it's more than my 6.5" S&W 629.


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## TIFF2CHECK

:-? THAT'S NOT GOOD! DAMN. IT'S A 2-1/2"


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## jakeblues

the recoil on the 2 1/2 really isnt that bad, don't let anyone scare you over it. it does take some getting used to though, the first few shots might scare you, but its not going to bite or anything, just catch your attention


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## TIFF2CHECK

FIGURED THAT. I APPRECIATE THE HELP, BOO! THANKS


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## bullet4545

I have read this thread and heard the good and bad from the Judge. First off I heard someone say Taurus makes second rate gun, but I honestly believe they make one of the best revolvers out there. As far as accuracy out of a Judge 3" barrel with .45 colt, I believe it up to the shooter. I had no problem placing 5o rounds of .45 ammo in about a 6 inch pattern at about 50 feet at my local indoor range today. I love this caliber and have been shooting it a long time. I think the judge is not only one of the funnest guns I've ever handled, but also a very viable weapon for many reasons. Especially on the trail camping.


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## Buzzzworm

hagfan72 said:


> But how would it be against snakes do you think?


lmao!! :withstupid: poor snakes always get a bad rep...
ya know unless it's on your back porch or in your house... why kill the poor thing..?
If your in the field hiking or hunting and see a snake i'm pretty sure you can walk around it pretty safely.
A Snake is not gonna chase you down and try to kill you ..
They either freeze hoping you don't see them, rattle to let you know their there and hope you stay away or they run from you..
Infact most people get bit when trying to kill/capture them.
a few people get bit by accidently stepping on them in the field but hey what would you do if the Jolly green giant strolls by and steps on you.. ?

ok back to the Topic at hand..
I like the Judge for what its made for.. "Self Defence" 
doesen't matter if your defending your self against critters or humans it gets the job done. 
its great for close range shooting.. home defence.
be careful shooting if your forced to shoot in public.. shot spreads fast with these and you could easily hit innocent bystanders.
I personally like carrying my Para Warthog and keep the Judge at home loaded with alternating 000 Buck & 45LC..


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## motobike

I thought the Judge was going to be better than sliced bread; so I did a field test today.
A local gun smith had one that he took in on trade; and he let me try it.

First of all I wanted a 10 yard snake gun, I have other guns that work pretty good at half that distance. I read the test in this forum that anothe r guy did with water filled bottles and clay pigeons, by the way you must read that.

I made a drawing of his snake on 8.5x11 paper, and on a calm day, today actually, I stepped off 10 yards. Using 6 shot (that is all we had) I stepped off 10 yards, actually 9.5, we did measure later.

First shot put a BB in the snakes head (WOW) and 5 more BB's on the paper. WHAT the F---. So did it again, 10 yards, the pattern was as before all over the paper but only about 8 BB's on the paper. So I tried a 357 with 9 shot bird shot and did about 3 times the number of BB's, at 10 yards. OK penetration, I don't know, I was shooting in paper.

I did shoot one 410 load at 10 yards into a water filled Pepsi 3 liter bottle, at 10 yards, only one BB went through and that BB was on the edge, so it didn't have all the water to go through.

I was going to buy this gun today, had the cash in my pocket, and went home with the cash in my pocket.

Yea maybe at 5-6 yards the pattern would have been accepatable, but my 357 shoots good at that, and will spend the $400 somewhere else.


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## motobike

Oh my I failed to say I was using the 2.5 inch version. In the above post.


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## hagfan72

Buzzzworm said:


> hagfan72 said:
> 
> 
> 
> But how would it be against snakes do you think?
> 
> 
> 
> lmao!! :withstupid: poor snakes always get a bad rep...
> ya know unless it's on your back porch or in your house... why kill the poor thing..?
Click to expand...

You obviously have some sort of agenda, so please do not try to hijack a legitimate thread with your tree-hugging, granola-eating, tie-dyed wearing hippy politics.

For the record, I kill ALL rattlesnakes I come across. Loose one good hunting dog to a rattler, and maybe you will change your tune as well.

Motobike, thanks for the report. I suspected as much about the Judge. :wink:


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## stevemike

If having a short 410 like the Judge is legal in my state, is it also legal to saw down a .410 pump shotgun down shorter then 18"?


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## hagfan72

Absolutely not! The Judge has a rifled barrel, thus making it a pistol, not a smoothbore shotgun.


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## catfisherman2

> know zip about handguns but wanted to ask the opinion of those of you who are knowledgeable on the subject. What do you think of the new Taurus Judge. It shoots .45 Colt, .45 ACP and .410 shotgun shells.


Buy it if you can find it...hard to find. It came out 2 years ago and is still hard to find at a *good* price.


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## stevetheartist

If what you all are saying about the Judge is true, why is the price tag so high? I stopped into a Bill Goodman show this past weekend and the only dealer who had a Judge wanted $585.

Any recommendations to an alternative selection? I look forward to y'all's guidance.


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## HARRY2

The 3inch magnum is the the next gun on my list. these things look so cool.


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## badvegan

most of the discussion on this board is great

the judge is a wonderful tool to add to your collection, some have showed their anti taurus bias and that is fine, just remember that most of the wheel guns they make are of great quality.

i love my judge. i keep the first two chambers loaded with 410 bore in 3 inch 11/16 oz of 7 1/2. others are chambered with whatever loads im lucky enough to find under $25 a box

many times on this board concern has been made that the judge is not accurate over 15 yards. well, this is not a target gun it is for personal defense and if your shooting someone over 10 yards away seems like a problem, imagine the problems your attorney will have in proving self defense at that range.


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## jakeblues

i really wish the new 09 judges w/ the rail and ported barrel came in the 3" magnum!!! i love my 6 1/2 in judge but want a 3"magnum for my truck, and if it came w/ the ported barrel and rail it would be perfect


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## Jumpmaster6

I have recently purchased a Stainless Taurus Judge revolver. It has a 3 inch barrel, and is chambered for the .410 guage 2.5 inch shells. The 3 inch chamber version is hard to come by, and I waited for it, but settled on this gun instead. The cost? I paid $565.00. Not bad since many stainless that I had seen were in the $600.00 range. I suppose that the release of the 3 inch version sent people to the gun stores to unload their 2.5 inch versions in anticipation. I didn't hold my breath for it, as there is a big demand for them, and they fly off the shelves as soon as they are laid down.

As with many postings on this site have mentioned incorrectly...the Judge has a RIFLED barrel. If it were a smoothbore, it would not conform to the laws regarding the 16 inch minimum shotgun standard, and that would make this a 3 inch barreled shotgun. The rifled barrel makes this a pistol.

The 45 Colt (also known as the 45 long colt) is fun to shoot in the weapon. I had my doubts as a loaded cylinder almost had looked like the round had to travel through an extra barrel length to get to the chamber LOL. The 5 shot cylinder is very long to accomodate the .410 shell, and the 45 Colt is way shorter, so it sits far down inside of the cylinder.

I shoot .410 000buck shells through this beast. It fires the Winchester shells with 3 balls of buck in each shell. This equates to hitting a target with 3 shots at one time, with one pull of the trigger. The shot spread is huge though. At about 15 feet, one shot from the 000buck places the spread roughly at 1 foot. Although still within a normal man's torso, it is meant as a hallway clearer. I would also surmise that someone attempting to shoot you from the car next to yours would get a resounding thump at close range from this beast.

I do like the grips. The gripper handgrips are made of rubber, and absorb alot of recoil. This weapon does not recoil heavily. The flame from the shotgun blasts is enough to blind any intruder (and you) in low light conditions. I recommend closing one eye in this case to remain "your nightvision" after the fireworks are over.

Overpenetration is not a problem with this weapon. Although sheetrock in a typical home setting is not the best bullet trap, the shotgun round will not overly penetrate your home's walls, and wind up hitting the wife and kids, or the neighbors outside. You could select normal 7 or 9 shot with this setting, but I wouldn't trust that to penetrate a heavy leather jacket/wallet/keys/phone/weapon etc... that a perpetrator may have on his person. That is why I settled on the 000buck.

I hope this helps everyone. I have heard that the Judge can shoot .45 ACP, but I don't see how a moon clip can fit into the gap between the base of the cylinder and the back of the frame. The paperwork that came with the gun did not mention this as a viable option, and I have yet to see a 5 shot moonclip which would match the Judge's proportions. Best to stick with the recommended chamberings.

All The Way....AIRBORNE!!! :sniper:


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## jakeblues

Where is this magical place where the legal limit is 16 inches??? I want to go there!!! It's 18" in ms...


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## dakotashooter2

The effectiveness of the "Judge" is all a lot of hype at this point. To my knowledge there are not any studies or documentation of effectiveness in actual shootings.

It is not a point and shoot gun that many would believe. The fact that it will shoot 410 gives it a slight advantage in hitting your target but not that much. At across the room distances I wouldn't expect much more than 6 inches of effective spread (enough pellets to do significant damage) with a standard shot load and while a buckshot load may increase the chances of a hit a shot even slightly off center might mean only a single hit with not much more effectiveness than a .22 which might at least expand. Remember the shotshell is designed for utilization on a moving target that is hard to hit but reasonably easy to kill. The average person could probably "hip shoot" a standard firearm and have just as much chance of a decent hit on a man size target. Consider this: to miss the human torso when aiming/pointing center of mass one would have to "pull" the shot by at least 6". That means with the 410 you may still hit your target but it will likely be in a non vital area AND with the least effective part of the pattern. If your attacker is determined enough "any hit" may not be enough.

Think of it this way also. shot somebody with a .38 and about 1/3 oz of solid lead is gonna penetrate the body. While the entire 1/2 oz load of lead shot MAY hit the body it may or may not be concentrated enough to provide adeqaute mass and/or penetration to STOP the attacker. remember that lack of penetration that keeps it from going through walls, works both ways.

Recoil is all about perspective. I find the common 308 much more comfortable to shoot out of my 14" encore handgun than my rifle. I will admit the 45 colt is a handfull in the Taurus, at least it was in 2" version I had. But I would guess the 410 wouldn't be a big deal in the judge.

One last item: Reloading. If/when the need to reload quickly comes longer is not better.

All in all the Judge is a marketing ploy that many have fallen for. I'm not saying it doesn't have use as a defensive weapon only that it is highly overrated and may give some a false sense of security.


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## HARRY2

dakotashooter2 said:


> All in all the Judge is a marketing ploy that many have fallen for. I'm not saying it doesn't have use as a defensive weapon only that it is highly overrated and may give some a false sense of security.


That may be true, but it just looks so freaking cool.


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## smokeater321

I have had my Judge for sometime now and have used it for nearly everything except personal defense. That may be because of ho ominous it looks in my BlackHawk CQC Serpa holster. It goes every where wth me and is great for rattle snakes, varmits and large game like Deer and Hogs. I too keep a variety of ammo in mine, though Mostly just 000 buck and 45 LC when not in the woods. It is great at 50 yrds with the 45 LC and 25 to 30 Yrds with the buck shot. I have not fired a 410 slug since I don't use reloads and have not found any one that makes a 410 slug. They do make a 3 inch chamber in the short and long barrels and also have scope mounts on some models. I have just the fiber optic sights on mine and am satisfied with it. Shoots great and a quick recovery for next shot. I have not found any reason not to own this gun. if you plan to buy only one, then this is the one you need. if you plan to buy alot more then it should be one of them, I used to carry a Sig Saurer 229 .40 S&W before this and Now it stays at the house by the bed. Only for when I have used the first five shots, and while the wife reloads it.


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## karoty

I have just the fiber optic sights on mine and am satisfied with it. Shoots great and a quick recovery for next shot.
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## Bowstring

look at the Ranger from www.bondarms.com in texas.


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## dakotashooter2

Another point to be made is that if you are a handloader you can easily make 2 and sometimes 3 ball (or a stack of short wad cutters) loads that fit in a standard revolver case and are probably more accurate because they are sized to the barrel. It should be noted that a specialized buckshot load made specifically for the judge is now available, suggesting that the common "off the shelf" 410 ammo was lacking for the intended purpose of the Judge.


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## traveler1550

From what I have read here it seems the detractors are missing a point. At 4 in the morning with a target less then 7 yards away 2 rounds of 000 followed by 3 45colts will stop him if he/she hasn't already decided this is not the place to be. The statistical distance for personal defense/shootouts is 7 yards or less. Our CCW qualification course is at 3 and 7 meters for that reason. In some places ranges greater then that and prosecutors do not believe you were in "imminent" danger. For what it is designed for it is the perfect gun. I stand a much better chance of hitting an intruder with it then my 9mm at 4 in the morning with blurry eyes.

I have used it on silhouette at 15 meters with the 000 and the 45 and all holes were in the body.


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## muddycowboy

does any one know if a .45-70 (405gr)round can be shot from the judge


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## mike landrich

muddycowboy said:


> does any one know if a .45-70 (405gr)round can be shot from the judge


Let's think this through. Its a 45 LC/.410 handgun. .45/70 is neither 45 LC nor .410, so NO .45-70 cannot be shot from the Judge. The .45-70 is a much longer round

Edit: I left out one BIG difference. 45 Colt is .451 caliber, 45-70 is .458.


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## allclear

I have the Taurus Judge, 3 inch cylinder and barrell in stainless. Had to wait quite a while to get one. I'm very happy with it, firing 00 5 pellet buck out of it is fairly recoil intensive. As a home defense gun where short ranges rule and you really don't want over penetration through multiple walls; this gun fits the bill.

Might be good for snake, I'm not sure this is suited for a regular carry weapon, much better choices on the market.

However, the 3 inch cylinder Judge is a unique handgun for a specific role and a welcome and interesting addition to anyone's collection rather than an "every-day" shooter.

One thing I would point out, the expensive laser grips strike me as a bit funny: If you really needed the precision that fancy laser sites provide, you wouldn't be buying this shotshell capable short barrelled weapon. It's kinda like a laser site on a can of lysol; is that really necessary?


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## ToConfuz

Howdy Kaiser - If you want a point and shoot handgun for your wife, why nopt get something with laser grips? I shoot a Kimber Pro Crimson Carry and it's dead nuts. Easy to use, easy to carry, and small enough to fit in a small pistol case with the touch pad.


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## Chevyman

I cant believe there are people on here that actualy support the Taurus judge. Ask any real gun expert that has tested this gun and they will all tell you this may be the most inaccurate usless large caliber gun possibly ever invented. It is nothing more than a novelty snake gun at best. Taurus is not a bad gun but this thing in my opinion really lowers Taurus in the handgun world. Taurus is certinly no where near a S&W or Ruger and when you consider cost versus quality i think most gun professionals will agree that Ruger is the best deal in handguns. There are much better selections for defense than this usless choice. Trust me, i just bought a Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull and Taurus doesn't even come close to making anything that would rival this gun in quality. Either way stay away from the Judge.


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## Chevyman

I have heard several people on here state that handguns aren't good home defense, shotguns are better. Well ,a shotgun does give you a lot more room to hit the target and all but they are very cumbersome and not practical in most homes unless you have a short barreled tactical style. This is one reason why handguns were invented, shorter range close quarters, I.E. your home. Listen in this world of crazies you better have something that will do the job with no questions about your families safety. Shot guns will work but handguns are more practical for the home. Listen, criminals cary semi automatics because they conceal and you can get 15 round clips so you can shoot a lot. Well ,get the right gun and you don't need 15 rounds. Trust me, i own a Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull. If i God forbid, ever have to use it in home defense, as soon as this thing goes off even if i miss "but i won't thanks to specific military training", the criminal will instantly know he has made a grave error in judgement and is very outgunned and will probably run while pissing down his leg. If i don't miss then i hope your afterlife decision was correct. Criminals deal in intimidation so therfore do some intimidating. I don't need 15 rounds or a shotgun that alows me to not be accurate. I simply pull the trigger once and the confrontation is over.


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## hagfan72

Chevyman...Really? Muzzle flash alone will deter an attack? Gee, maybe I ought to trade in my guns for flash photography equipment. :-? If you are gonna shoot at someone, you must have made the decision that you or your family were in grave danger. You really going to bet your or your loved ones' lives on the fact that some scumbag is gonna run based on muzzle blast??? :eyeroll: Besides, I hope you live on a ranch, since you have no regard to where that .454 Casull slug is gonna end up...


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## Chevyman

hagfan72 said:


> Chevyman...Really? Muzzle flash alone will deter an attack? Gee, maybe I ought to trade in my guns for flash photography equipment. :-? If you are gonna shoot at someone, you must have made the decision that you or your family were in grave danger. You really going to bet your or your loved ones' lives on the fact that some scumbag is gonna run based on muzzle blast??? :eyeroll: Besides, I hope you live on a ranch, since you have no regard to where that .454 Casull slug is gonna end up...


First of all i said nothing about muzzle blast and i agree muzzle blast means nothing. That was merely an intimidating way to put it for this guy who has obviously never shot one and is considering a novelty gun thats all. My point was is that 90% of all criminals will be carrying something like a 9mm semi auto or something because he has been watching to much TV and thinks more rounds are better because he is probably a rookie and needs that many to hit his target. It sounds like you know a little about weapons so i ask you, can you imagine what that 454 would be like if it was discharged inside a house. Have you ever heard of the shock and awe grenades that law enforcement will throw into a place that lets out a very load blast and bright light to disorient the suspect, well im pretty sure that this gun would accomplish that very thing except for one huge difference,, there will be a 360 grain CorBon penetrator round behind it. And no i wouldn't have any concerne about where it went,, my comcern is to protect my family in such a way as there is absolutly no doubt of what the outcome will be for him. Ill worry about the rest when i know my family is safe, although you would be right, we would all have a high pitched ringing in our ears for a while but we would be alive and the intruder in pieces. Guess he shouldn't have broken in then huh :shake: . Like i said before, criminals operate on the premis of intimidation and power. So lets intimidate and be powerful then. In a situation like a home invasion you may be lucky if you have time to come to your senses and react and even get one round off so it had better count and be absolutly effective no questions asked, thats all im saying.The expert that did the extensive testing on this Taurus Judge said it simply doesnt have any penetration much at all but if you were going to use it the 45LC was by far the best round to put in it. Obviously a 410 00buck is weak anyway and comming from a 4in barrel you would need to be 5ft from the guy to do anything. The slug was slightly better but from 25 ft not very effective. The 45LC was the most accurate test and in home defense he said it would suffice but you need to be very good with it. All im saying is there are much better choices as i think you would agree, This would be a good snake gun at best and by the way of course i would not recommend a 454 Casull for home defense. That just so happens to be what i have so i reference it. Most people unless you shoot alot and are very comfortable with handguns wouldn't want to fire it anyway without getting hurt so please don't misunderstand me and think i am suggesting everyone should use one of those hand cannons for home defense. You have to admit they are very effective though. :beer:


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## Chevyman

hagfan72 said:


> Absolutely not! The Judge has a rifled barrel, thus making it a pistol, not a smoothbore shotgun.


The rifled barrel has nothing to do with the classification. 
Rifles have rifled barrels and they are rifles, shotguns with rifled deer barrels and are still shotguns. These weapons are not reclassified as a handgun. The rifling simply gives the round much more accuracy, stability and velocity because of the rotation it puts on the bullet. Alot of different weapons have rifled barrels but this does not reclassify them as pistols. Field barrels in shotguns are not rifled and smooth because there is not a single bullet to control but a lot of pellets instead, hense no rifling needed. :iroll:


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## leroypcoltrane

I read with interest the remarks about the Taurus Judge. I was excited to get the gun and the blued finish is beautiful. I probably bought the only defective one ever made. After firing several .410 shotshells, the thumb release freezes up hard and then there is no more shooting. Luckily, I have only loaded one shell at a time or I would have a cylinder full of live ammo that I couldn't remove. The company will gladly look at the gun and this takes 2-3 months. I am on my second return to the company. They won't remedy the situation by exchanging for a new, functioning gun. They seem content to have me return it, which could go on for a lifetime. I believe the gun I bought is a lemon and not fixable. The thumb release has now jammed on me 3 separate times despite having a gunsmith "Fix" it twice and the company took a stab at it once. As a self defense weapon, if you use the .410 shells, your target better be a few feet from you. The pellets do not penetrate more than a few inches. With the .45 Colt rounds, they will serve you better. Now these are opinions I have read. I can't give you a testimonial since I have only fired my own lemon Judge 4or 5 times. Would anyone on this earth reading these words have any suggestions about what I could do to get satisfaction? I would dearly love to hear any suggestions or recommendations. I have told a company rep that I only want satisfaction, not one of his kidneys. His sincere lack of concern to give me satisfaction was very reassuring for my continued desire to own Taurus firearms.


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## helitom

I really enjoy shooting my Judge. I'm 5'10'' and 130 lbs. (really!) Not real strong or meaty. But I can put 50 rounds down range without any pain. I don't care if it's ugly as sin, it's comfortable to shoot with those ribber grips. My wife's Ruger .38 LCR beats our hands up after 20 rd. But my Judge has been repaired twice in the past 10 months, first by Taurus (3 mo wait), then by my dealer (3 weeks wait), now it's unusable again! The cylinder fell off when I was reloading it, and won't go back in because a spring is turned in a U-shape where the cylinder mounts to the frame. Ditto the post about ribbed .410 cases: they get stuck bad in the cylinder. Make sure your .410 ammo has smooth walls.


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## mkph11

I was honestly thinking about buying a Taurus Judge. I was wondering about how far does the 45 round shoot without dropping.


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## Dotmountain

Question for Judge owners. I'd like to buy one for a versital trail gun, but I want to be able to use it to dust grouse for fresh meat during my fall hikes. for that I'd need an effective kill range of 20-30 feet. Any chance this gun would work for that? Would the 4" or 6.5" barrel models make things any better? thanks.


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## dakotashooter2

I don't have a judge but I did have a 12" TC 45/410 barrel and trying to get a decent pattern out of a 3" load of #6s was pushing it at 30'. I can only assume the pattern will open faster out of the shorter taurus barrel.


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## harleyowner

I own a Taurus Judge. Let me assure you it is rifled. I dont have much knowledge of hand guns but my brothers do.
One is a police captain in MI. They told me about this gun. Im living in Jersey so I had to go through lengthy process to buy this
pistol. It will chamber a 3 inch 410 shell if you buy the 3 inch chambered version. I have fired several 410 loads out of it.
Some smooth cases and some ribbed. I haven't had any issues with shells getting stuck. I prefer the 410 with triple 0 buckshot.
I like it. I bought it for home defense and from what i see on the range...I feel sorry for anyone coming into my home uninvited.
In Jersey we cant carry and cant hunt with them so it serves no purpose to me except home defense. I have talked to several police officers in my town and I will be in real trouble if Im caught transporting the pistol to anywhere but a range. Jersey also has strict laws on transporting...unloaded, locked in a glove box or trunk ammo separated in the vehicle. Driving a Pick up with no lockable glove box the Police told me just to have a mechanical lock on the pistol and have it as far away from me as possible in the vehicle.
My judge came with a lock built in and two keys to lock and unlock the gun. Ive been assured that it meets my towns requirements.
Bottom line I like it...


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## harleyowner

The pattern does open fast...thats how it was designed. When I was shown one the first thought i had was wow...its going to sling shot in a very wide pattern because of the rifilings....exactly the point...thats what it was made for. I love mine...


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## harleyowner

I havent had any issues with 410 ammo getting stuck...maybe my pistol is a freak lol. That spring fell out of mine but it was my fault I was seeing how far i could break it down without tools...the rod that ejects the shells is a lt handed thread and when i took it apart to clean it I didnt see the spring fall out. I looked at the break down and saw what i was missing and looked down and there it was...no harm no foul....now I know....


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## harleyowner

As to shooting somone in your home. I asked several cops and state troopers in my area about the law in NJ. As usual the written law is not always black and white. But pretty much I was told....if you shoot an intruder in the back even in your home you are in trouble. You have to be in imminent danger. One officer said it would'nt hurt to put a knife in the guys hand. But shoot them in your house and facing towards you. He went on to say you will be arrested and there will be a trial but "probably nothing will happen to you" I really dont care. Our homes are our last refuge in an ever increasing violent world. I will shoot anyone who comes into my home. Its time to stop all this home invasion nonsense. Check with you local law enforcement officials and find out what may happen to you if you shoot someone in your home. I think the judge is exactly what it says it is. Thats why I bought it. I like mine and it shoots fine and as of yet I havent had any problems with it. Jersey is trying to pass a ccw law but even if they do the state wants $500 a year for a permit to carry. lol You got to love New Jersey....


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## copen

The Judge gets some unfair badmouth as being a gimmick. It isn't. It's a purpose specific tool. Close range self defense. We just got a 3 inch unfluted cyl. version, and it's a hoot. My wife and I both like it. Home and vehicle defense, or woods strolling. Not concealed carry. It's rather large and somewhat heavy. So far we've only shot Winc. PDX1 and 45LC cowboy style loads. No complaints. Got more different loads coming soon. Gonna try some bird shot and airborn charcoal bricketts for fun when we get settled on SD loads.
:beer:


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## harleyowner

wyocarp said:


> Wow. I can't believe what I am reading. First, it is a Taurus which are known to 2nd rate guns. I bought a "judge" thinking it might be a fun gun to take out while hiking around. The 45 LC ammo works great in the gun but as for the .410 shells, be sure to use the smooth plastic casing. The rougher casings with grooves don't come out of the cylinder. The gun only uses 2 1/2" .410 shells which really limits the usable ammo selection. When using .410 shells, one really has to make sure the shells are pushed ALL the way down in the cylinder or it won't close. Numerous times the cylinder has not locked up.
> 
> This is not a defense gun unless attacked by paper targets or using 45 LC and then there are much better 45 LC pistols. This gun is a play toy and deserving of being called a serious gun.


I fired ribbed federal 2 1/2 and 3 inch...with no problems. Had one misfire on a 45LC round. Never had a problem with the cylinder either....and have fired over 500 rounds out of it so far.


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## harleyowner

wyocarp said:


> BFR makes a 45/.410 pistol that allows the use of full 3" .410 shells instead of the 2.5" .410 in the Taurus. It is a much nicer pistol but of course it costs more as well.


After reading your posts its clear that you dont like the pistol. But is also obvious that you dont know much about it. I own a tarus 3 inch chamber. That fires 3" 410 ammo just fine. Do some research or quit carping about the pistol....(pun intended)


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## harleyowner

ranger7 said:


> Assuming you find the Judge of some value to you, the biggest problem I see, is finding a good supply 2 1/2 inch Buckshot. The dealers I've talked to, recommend Winchester but the 2 1/2 in buckshot cartrdges are nearly impossible to find. I've burned up a lot of expensive gas checking out local stores. Of 8 or so gunshops, a few had shelf space for the Winchester but were out and didn't know when they'd get more. I spent a few hours researching places with a web presence and I may have found only one that has the Winchester in stock. (Waitng to see if my order is confirmed.)
> 
> Midway has S&B buck listed but it's out of stock, back order O.K.. I ordered 100 rounds for about $100 including shipping. The S&B works fairly well but it's tight loading and very tight ejecting - no good for tactical use.
> 
> If you can get a Judge with a 3" cylinder, the 3" buckshot is definitely easier to find. Not knowing about buckshot availability, I preferred the looks of the 2.5 inch cylinder. Will be glad I got the 2.5 if I can stockpile 100 rounds of the Winchester buck and locate a source that has it available to order.


Federal makes both 410 rounds.....and call it a home defense load or something like that. I fired the 3inch and 2 1/2 Federal rounds with 000 buck 2 1/2 has five pellets. The three inch had #4 shot 9 pellets....I liked both although I thought the 2 1/2 000 buck was a little better,..... either will do fine in your home lol


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## harleyowner

Tram said:


> Hey guys-
> 
> Just curious, wound up with two Judges today..
> 
> What is everyones preferred shells out of this thing in both .45LC and .410?
> 
> I've read it's best to use smooth jacketed .410 shells?


I havent had any trouble firing the Federal ribbed shells out of my Judge. And they seem to be in all our local stores that sell ammo. I havent had any problem finding 410 ammo for my judge. I fired over 50 ribbed 410 shells out of my judge and had no problems ejecting them.....maybe im just lucky


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## hspepke

This has been an interesting thread. I reload 45 Colt, and just bought a 2 1/2" Judge to experiment a bit with and try to find the answer to some of the concerns I've seen voiced here. There should be a way to make a really, really great home defense load for this gun. 
Someone asked if they could use 45-70 in the Judge, and was told, "No", because of the cartridge length, and that the 45-70 is .458 vs .451 in the 45 Colt. Well, my Lee 45 Colt dies cast .458 lead bullets, and they work just fine in my 44 Pietta Remington New Army clone, which I've converted to 45 LC cartridge, so I think they should work fine in the Judge as well. The 45-70 cartridge is shorter than the 2 1/2" .410, so should fit the Judge cylinders with no problem. Am I missing something? If the 45-70 is loaded to the old 40 grains of black powder equivalent in smokeless to start with, there shouldn't be any pressure problems, and there will be plenty of room in the case for some bullet experiments. I can think of stacking more than one 44 ball for one, and if it is properly cushioned (a sabot maybe?) the lead might not deform as much as the three ball buck does out of .410 so it might be a lot more accurate than the buckshot. Even at 10 yards, the YouTube clips I've seen show too much spread for buck. The 45-70 could be just the start, you can make .410 sized cases out of 444 Marlin and 303 British brass as well. 
I think I'm going to like this gun.


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## Cascadia

For anyone considering purchasing the Taurus Judge, I can highly recommend it as a very capable self defense weapon. I have a Taurus 4510 TKR-3SS. As previously stated, it will fire .410 loads or .45 long colt. I fire Federal Premium .410 2 1/2 inch 000 buckshot from Cabela's. At 30 feet, each shot leaves four very large nasty holes with about a 4-6 inch spread. Police will tell you that the average self defense situation requiring a pistol takes place at ten feet. I don't load .45 ammo in mine as I see no reason for it. If you can't stop a man with a couple rounds of 000 buckshot, you better start running. As for problems with ribbed or smooth rounds, I have not had any problems. This weapon is sweet and is a real street cannon. Anyone who has walked point on patrol in the bush with a Remington pump will tell you about the psychological effect a shotgun has on bad guys. Believe me, despite all of the naysayers, you would not want to be on the receiving end of this weapon.


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## Plainsman

hspepke, I often shoot .001 oversize and get good accuracy in my 44 mags, but going from .451 to .458 could turn your cylinder into a hand grenade. A few years ago I had a Mossberg 243. I went from 85 gr boat-tail to 100 grain bullets and was very lucky I started at minimum load. My pressure was so high that the bolt handle broke off trying to open the action. I called Nosler since I was shooting Partition bullets. They said Mossberg was imported, and when you imported from Europe you often got the real metric size for 6mm 7mm etc. Instead of the bore being .243 it was more like .239, and .004 would have turned my action into a grenade if I had loaded even a moderate load. 
If a person is going to reload they need to take it very serious. One false move and your headed to an early grave. I suppose one could be lucky and just loose one side of their face. I have seen cyclinders blown in half and a backstraps that wrapped around backwards and went through a guys hand.


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## bobislonly

MAN HAVE ANY OF YOU ALL EVER TAKEN A SELF DEFENSE COURSE..THIS TAURUS JUDGE IS THE NEXT BEST THANG TO WOMEN....ITS COMPACT,SURE NOT TO MISS AND ACCURATE.PUT A 45 SLUG IN IT AND FIRE IT,THEN SHOOT A 410 OUT OF IT,ITS NOT A SNIPER RIFLE, BEST LITTLE PARTNER IVE EVER OWNED SEPT MY HAND........I GOT A SPRINGFIELD XDM 9 MM 3.8 AND THIS LITTLE JUDGE PUT MORE ACCURATE HOLES IN A TARGET AT 15 YARDS THAN THE 20 ROUND SPRINGFIELD....GET WITH IT ,BET 9 TENTHS OF YALL NEVER SHOT A HANDGUN,I GOT BIG HANDS AND THIS LITTLE CUTIE IS MY FAVORITE,ITTL TAKE OUT ANY MOVING TARGET AT CLOSE RANGE BETTER THAN A SHOTGUN.....KEEP IT IN YOUR POCKET. THANX BOBBY


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## bandit769

If your interested in the spread of this gun I found a nice website http://www.410handguns.com/taurus_spd_text.html


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