# P.L.O.T.S. Land



## jmmshadow (Oct 31, 2002)

I was hunting this last weekend south of dickinson and i saw something that really troubled me. I was driving by some PLOTS land and saw that many of them have been completely hayed. as we were hunting, we were stopped by a warden (just checking licenses, birds, etc.) and we asked him what the deal was. he said that there was a new rule in affect this year, that after august something, that the farmers could hay everything.

i don't know about the rest of you, but this sure seems like a reg flag to me. without that cover, many pheasants are sure to die this winter. and there is a limited amount of cover out there this year. i just hope that we don't have a tough winter this year, or else the hunting out there is really gonna suffer.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't think you can just hay or graze everything.The SW had drought conditions and the Dept of Ag relaxed the rules.

Otherwise I believe the laws now say you can hay 1/3 every year or all of it once every 3 years

Whether it's PLOTS or not doesn't have anything to do with it.


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## Scraper (Apr 1, 2002)

I don't like to bash the NDG&F because I think that they are doing an outstanding job 99% of the time.

PLOTS is becoming a black eye on their record in the Dickinson area. I was appalled at the low quality of the land enrolled in PLOTS in that area. The stuff that wasn't mowed was 8" tall and wispy at best. Habitat???

The solution is to save the money that is wasted on these low quality pieces of ground and pour it into planting food plots, making edges, and digging waterholes in higher quality stuff.

Go look at these fee hunting operations, the improvements that they have made to increase the number of birds is impressive. Food plots, tree belts, water holes, tall grass. It could be done on PLOTS lands, too. The drought did not hurt their cover.

I was embarassed to have supported this program so blindly in the past. What is going on out there is a failure of the policy and is not benefiting anyone, but the landowner.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

When the stated goal is to hit 1MM PLI acres rather than dealing with the real cause/effect, what _*WILL *_give? Quality. The PLOTS guys have done a great job, but each quality acre is getting harder and more expensive to obtain. There are only so many landowners with quality acres that will participate and there's only so much money for the program, so if several hundred thousand more acres are mandated to meet Gov's goal, quality will necessarily take a back seat to quantity. Personally, I'd rather have less and better (including the improvements Scraper suggests), than more and marginal. But, hey, how many ND voters will understand that when when he says "We told you we'd have 1MM acres for resident sportspersons by 200X and we did it."


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## Scraper (Apr 1, 2002)

Right on Dan.

Another case of the governor controlling the NDG&F.


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

P.L.O.T.S= Pretty Lousy Outdoor Time Spent! :lol:

Okay, few of them are okay...Most get piss pounded 24/7 all season long!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Rick Acker said:


> P.L.O.T.S= Pretty Lousy Outdoor Time Spent! :lol:
> 
> Okay, few of them are okay...Most get piss pounded 24/7 all season long!


This is not meant to bash the program because I love it, but...... We hunted near Linton/Hazelton and decided to pull out the PLOTS map and look for some new places. Well, the first *4 *we drove to were pasture land that that so little grass even the cows couldn't live on it. The land was grazed closer than a golf green and if I was going to describe my worst habitat, that would be it.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

According the article this past Sunday in the Fargo Forum, there are more than enought PLOTS lands in the Mott area.........No problem for the local access for the freelance hunters.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

There was an article in the Bismarck tribune this morning about hunting in Mott as well. I haven't read it yet,but I would imagine it is very similar or the same.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Plenty of public land around Mott to hunt according to the restaurant and motel owners and desk jockey outdoors writers in the Forum. What a joke. :eyeroll:

Did you see how the bird cleaning guy slipped in how the closure of the first week hurt his business and in the same article he says fewer bird numbers is also resulting in less business. I can't actually believe that I pay to read articles as bad as that one. I know I could write better articles in the outdoors section than what gets put in there. The exception being Mr Leier.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

GG, it is the same here in Bismarck. The reporters are generally people who have been granted access to great lands to hunt in return for their BIASED articles.


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## Scraper (Apr 1, 2002)

You would think that the bird cleaning guy would be a little worried about the lack of habitat and the threat of a hard winter wiping out his business.

When these guys start thinking like Curty and realizing that it is *THEIR* responsibility to provide good habitat and access to it if they want people to keep coming out there it may improve. From what I saw, it isn't going to happen.

I talked to lots of freelance hunters res and non-res. They were all disappointed and they all were thinking about not coming back or trying somewhere else.

One guy said that at least the SD walk-in areas are decent habitat, even if they have been trampled.

It's too bad.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

I hate to say it, but hunting is secondary to farming. If a farmer needs to cut some grass to feed his cattle, more power to him.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

I agree 100% as long as it within the legal limits of the law. With the price of cattle I wish I had a few myself!!


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

People just need to remember that hunting and fishing have now become a "recreational activity". Although I'm sure there are still families that feed themselves on "wild game".

To often people just assume that they are entitled to something just cause they throw money around. That mentality gets old real fast. Life isn't all about money. Life experiences are what you take with you. Not $$$


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## jamartinmg2 (Oct 7, 2004)

It is too bad that some of the PLOTS habitat is marginal at best. On a positive note, though, at least you guys have it. Here in MN they have been wringing their hands in the state legislature as to create a similar program here in the state. Like all political issues, I'm sure they will dwell on it for the next 5 to 10 years before they act on it. The PLOTS I hunted this past year was not too bad..... almost too good. Vast tracks of waist high grass that you would need 4 to 6 guys with dogs to cover effectively. We hunted with 2 guys and two dogs and were able to find birds, though it took a bit of work to do so. I'd rather work for them than to have my limit in 20 minutes, though, any day. It is great just to get out walk and watch the dogs do what they do best!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

I ran across a couple more pieces of PLOT land this weekend that was absolutely desolate! Cattle couldn't even feed on the grass.........because there wasn't any left. No trees, shrubs, grass, cattails, just rocks and dirt!


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## goosehtr4life (Dec 16, 2002)

Remmi, I totally agree...I have posted before the new "plots" land I have seen is a pasture at best....It is just another way of saying 1m acres in plots by the gov.

Brad, while I do agree a farmer needs to feed his family, they do take a check for CRP and also Plots...So I belive that you should not be ablel to have your cake and eat it to...just my :2cents:


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

700,000 acres of PLOTS land, I wonder what percentage is barren "Throw In" land that is used to inflate the actual numbers??

Bob


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## jmmshadow (Oct 31, 2002)

good point goosehtr4life. i totally agree that a farmer has the right to support his family. but the idea of he or she getting crp checks and plots checks and then haying the whole thing seems like they are taking advantage of the system.


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## Scraper (Apr 1, 2002)

It is called double-dipping. Take the PLOT check and go buy some hay or return the money and cut your stuff.

I predict buffalo commons in the next twenty years. We'll buy access passes from Cargill and have access to all of Cargill County. Which is what they'll rename all of the land bought up by major farming corporations.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Bob Kellam said:


> 700,000 acres of PLOTS land, I wonder what percentage is barren "Throw In" land that is used to inflate the actual numbers??


Seems like a helluva lot!


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## 1littlefeather (Mar 5, 2003)

Well we hunted a week and ALL of the PLOTS that we hunted had birds. We found most of the birds in the "hayed" wheat. We managed to get our limits, saw plenty Huns and plenty of sharpies. We noticed that the number of PLOTS were way up as well. Where everyone else is complaining you ought to be thankful that the landowners even put their property in the mix.


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## jmmshadow (Oct 31, 2002)

1littlefeather, i'm not saying that all the PLOTS land are bad. i've hunted plenty of them in the past that held an ample amount of birds and cover. i believe my intention in starting this thread was to point out that many of them that have crp have been mowed all the way down and that the future of the birds in these areas are gonna be in jeopardy.

NO COVER + NORTH DAKOTA WINTER = PLENTY OF DEAD BIRDS

and that's bad for everyone (residents, non residents, farmers, business owners, etc.)


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Plots land is also good winter habitat and nesting habitat. If it doesn't look huntable it may have served another purpose during another season besides hunting season. Most of the PLOTS land that I have seen looks pretty good and it is nice to see the "Hunting " sign instead of the "no hunting" sign. It is a great program and I hope it continues to get support and continues to expand its base.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm glad everyone has an opporty to make use of their wildlife biology and game management degrees.  Granted, not all PLOTS are ideal habitat. But sometimes you have to take the best or only thing that is available in an area. I highly doubt some farmer in the RR Valley is going to give up his prime beet/potato land for PLOT acreage. The same holds elsewhere. Landowners are only going to enroll in such programs when they are financially beneficial. In most cases this means the lower quality land is going to get the nod. It's nice to say use that money to enhance existing habitat instead which is a very legitimate idea, provide you have that base of habitat to work with in the first place. As with any organization G&F funds are limited. Acquisition is always the first step with management and development after. Don't underestimate the value of any habitat no matter how desolate it looks when you saw it. Maybe you saw it at the wrong time. While ideally a piece of habitat will provide year round value, that is not always possible. Areas may be acquired for specific purposes such as nesting cover, winter cover, food access etc. Hwy ditches are a prime example. In many areas they are managed for nesting cover only. I've see many a sharptail on those so called barren pastures. That black barren field may be the summerfallow rotation in a 5 year contract for that parcel. In some cases the PLOTS may provide only limited habitat but more importantly provide access adjacent to more ideal, inaccessible habitat allowing at least some hunting opportunity. Once again while ideally the G&F would love to provide huge tracts of prime habitat for recreational use it is just not feasible. The goal is to provide sportsment as much land as possible that allows at lease a reasonable opportunity to harvest some game. Dumping money into a limited amount of prime habitat will improve the quality of hunting on that land to a point. But will also increase the pressure. Would you rather fight for access for a chance to limit out or have a piece to yourself with the likelyhood of getting a little less game. I prefer the latter. I do not have the education to second guess the proffessionals that are charged with game and habitat management with the G&F. That is not to say my experience in the field always demonstrate their practices to be the best but then I only experience a sampling of the habitat they have to manage.


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## 1littlefeather (Mar 5, 2003)

:beer: I second that. How many people actually go out in April or May and look at a track of land? If the farmer doesn't farm it and maintain it the outcome could be the lack of food or cover for the young. Try hunting if the PLOTS were not there? Head SW and pay a premium. As hunters we should be thankful for what we have and that the farmer even put up the land.

-How many complainers have put thier property up for a stranger to hunt?? Not many, it takes a lot of nerve whether they are being paid or not.


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## jmmshadow (Oct 31, 2002)

i agree with you 1littlefeather that if there wasn't the PLOTS program, getting hunting access would be a lot more difficult and sometimes impossible. but then again, sometimes talking to the farmers is the best thing that you can do. what the worst thing they can say. "No". well then you'll just have to go and talk to someone else.

i think everyone should read Doug Leier's article "The Importance of Plots" on the home page of this website. anywho, good luck hunting.


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## jamartinmg2 (Oct 7, 2004)

Well said, Dakota! You sound like a person "in the know". How would you like to come to MN and start a PLOTS program out here?  How long does the PLOTS designation/lease usually last on a parcel of land anyway? Is it yearly, I imagine? Just curious..


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

Contracts are for 6 years for most PLOTS programs, however the farmer has an out anytime he wants! Make sure you treat the land like it was yours, cause if you piss him off, he could take it out immediatly!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

I don't think anyone on here was questioning the PLOTS program.....just some of the property they selected. Personally, I utilize the PLOTS program more and more each year. I would even be willing to raise my lisence fees for more PLOTS land...............as would many others on this site ! :beer:


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## jmmshadow (Oct 31, 2002)

:beer:

i totally agree remmi. a resident license is so cheap for what you get. i would be willing also to pay more for my license, especially if more plots land would be purchased with the additional money. the only thing i would ask is a little more research done by the game & fish on what is put into the plots program.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Like some others have said in this thread........their may be other reason's for having those lands be PLOTS, but I agree with you. Maybe if they could simply give an explanation for some of those lands being included.

Gotta go pack for the trip/hunt !!!! :sniper: :beer: :jammin: :bartime:


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

As someone who works to sign these areas up, I want you all to know that the folks doing this work are all looking for the same things in these tracts that you are. Good hunting. THat is not always evident from the road, but every tract must have a redeeming quality to warrant its inclusion into the program. I wish it were as easy to say as "We are paying x for acres in Hettinger County". We cant, because we have a large number of programs that work to do a number of different things, although they all include public access. They range from throw in acres to 50 cents an acre all the way up to $34 dollars an acre in a few select areas of the state. Some are simply for access, others actually rent the ground similiar to CRP and open the acces at the same time. No one program covers everything, and you should not expect to find identical habitat on all areas.

Everyone has a different set of goals for what they want to see out there. Waterfowl, deer, upland, even pronghorns.

Realize that this was an extraordinary year in haying and things like that. Even our highest price habitat programs which pay rental rates still really need to be hayed or grazed once every 6-8 years to maintain the quality of the grass stands. So 15% of the land really would be hayed in any given year anyway.

I understand that it can be frustrating to look at a piece of land and wonder what in the world are we paying for that, and why? Ask. Your PLI Biologist is your employee, and we need to hear your concerns in order to improve things.

We are all hunters, and we look at these areas through hunters eyes. Take a wander over the hill, you may be suprised at what is back there.

Good luck tomorrow, and lets be careful out there.

Tom


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## goosehtr4life (Dec 16, 2002)

:beer: I just wanted to say I am not complaining about PLOTs...just that a lot of the "new" PLOTS I have seen is hayed pasture in areas that do not even have birds anywhere near them....My quesiton would be why pay a farmer for Land that will never be hunted..

Yes there is quality plots out there...but my point was the reason I have seen this in my opinion worthless stuff is to make the 1million acre promise that we have heard over the last year....

Trust me, I have hunted PLOTS and have shot several birds out of this land..it is a GREAT program...I get that..but some of the new stuff we have driven by was laughable at best...Have a good one..


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## 1littlefeather (Mar 5, 2003)

Not all of the PLOTS are for upland game, it may be deer habitatduring the spring. We have seen many Huns and Sharpies in areas that are desolate and look barren. We have also walked PLOTS that look pitiful to find good areas in the back "40". Some may look bad during the fall and flourish in the spring, swing by in May and look at it.


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