# E collar I NEED YOUR HELP



## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

i plan on using an ecollar for my lab. I have a few questions. How old do they have to be start. My 4 month old is two differnt dogs. On leash she is great heels well kennels, comes, sits and listens well. Off the check cord she is deaf at times. i dont plan on using the collar alot but I need her to COME 100% of the time. not just for training but her safety as well. Guys i need to hear what you have to say as there is alot of knowledge here on this board. I have no problems with ecollars and think they can be a great tool. used improplerly they are not only brutal but can ruin a dog. I just bought a sportdog 2000.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

On such a young pup I would put the collar in the box and forget about it for another six to eight months. Work daily and consistantly with the yard and leash training and the "come" will come around. E-collar enforcement is for AFTER the dog is unfailingly trained to a specific command or task. Your views on the e-collar are correct, but I'll add one thing; If you damage a dog with an e-collar, they will never forget that the collar is their enemy, making it essentially worthless forevermore. Patience, repetition and consistancy. Burl


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

my dog is just over two years old and I just now started to use an e-collar on her... only to reenforce commands that she already understands. I do not consider myself a professional trainer, but my dog is better than average I would say.

Remember, e-collars area reenforcement tool. THey are not a teaching tool. It is very easy to ruin a dog by not understanding how to use it as a reenforcement tool. I would say that if you are asking this question that you should really do some research into how to use it properly, for your own and your dogs sake.

I do not mean this to be a negative message, but I was also in the same boat as you when I wanted to get a collar and several of the good hearted dog lovers on this forum told me the same advice. So do your research and keep asking good questions.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

If you are only using the collar for "here", it's one thing. If you're going to make her a fully broken collar dog, it's another. I would put it on her at six months. Just keep up the good work with cc, leash, etc. until then. At that time, you'll put her in an enclosed yard with 30' cc on. Test her on collar intensity. Start at one and work up until you just see her flinch or look inquisitively at you. That's your starting intensity. Go through all of her commands again, only rather than reinforcing them with choke chain or stick, use the collar. Challenge her. Open the house door and when she bolts in, hold the button down and call her out until she comes. Take away any safe place she [email protected], kennel, car, etc. When she'll do this, take off the lead and start all over, collar only. Most of the bad rap the collar has is because people get in a hurry and use and intensity level too high for the dog. Keep it low and you'll have no adverse effects.

Having said all that, like the other guys said, buy the best video on the market and follow it. The collar is an incredibly complex piece of training equipment and you need to study it thoroughly before using it. Jim Dobbs has a good video on it , Mike Lardy, and I understand Evan Graham. Spend the $$$ and get one of them.


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

The only thing i plan on using it for is COME. I also would use it for stop when we are hunting this fall. Its more for safety than anything else. In the field i want her to be safe above all else


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Then just keep the intensity low so you are just "tickling" her and start it at 6 months. Remember, her mental safety is absolutely as important as her physical safety. You should also be having her wear the collar right now, whenever she is out of her kennel or house. Let her know that the only way she can go out and have fun, is with the collar on. Soon she'll beg to have it put on. Do NOT turn the collar on! Sounds like your dog's safety is first and formost on your mind. That's good and good Luck!


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Sounds to me like you are rushing your pup. Most programs don't begin basic OB until 4-5 months old. Collar Conditioning and Force Fetch (they go hand in hand) begin at 6-8 months, *AFTER* basic OB is rock solid, and the pup's adult teeth are fully grown in.

Your pup is being a typical 4 month old pup. Let him be a pup right now. At this point, your training session should be basic OB, a max of 10 minutes morning & evening, and maybe 4-5 puppy bumpers a day. Exercise lots of patience. You are establishing the training relationship as much as you are training, right now.

I'll say it again; don't use the "shotgun approach" to gundog training.
Select a proven program, follow it, and don't skip steps. I recommend Smartwork, also read The 10 Minute Retriever by John & Amy Dahl.
10Minute Retiever should be your bible for the first 6 months...


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## Hooked on Labs (Jan 23, 2006)

You should have your dog wear the collar for several months before using it or he/she will become collar wise if you just put the collar on him/her and use it right away.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

What has worked for me:

1. I did not use the collar until my dog turned 2 ... how am I going to reenforce commands that she does not already have mastered. The collar is for negative reenforcement... that is it. Be patient, could you imaghine if they would have put a collar on freshman football players because they ahd already been playing for 3-4 years and should understand the game? This is the time when their fundementals are being honed. A little thick on the sarcasm, but your patience will pay off.

2. When you do decide to use a collar:
a. buy one with a vibration feature 
- this is a great way to ease a started dog into the world of e- collar training, but again - this is still negative reenforcement so think of it that way. Use it as you think you should use e-stimulation... spairringly or it loses its affect and the dog will ignore it. I very very rarely have had to escelate my reenforcement above the "vibration" button. It is very easy to ruin a dog or anything in that matter with too much negative reenforcement. This "vibration" feature also acts as correction in itself in the beginning and if disobedience escelates... later on in the training... can act as a warning sign to a harsher negative reenforcement(e-stimulation)

b. like all feedback, timing is everything
- this to me is the most overlooked aspects of an e-collar or any reenforcement at that. You need to correct the action or behavior at the moment it is happening and on a consistent basis. *** in the "no" or whatever command you use for correction and you will soon have them married together for effectiveness. Where the "no" replaces the collar.

c. be sure to replace the negative with positive reenforcement
- another mistake that I have seen and try to avoid is forgetting the positive reenforcement opportunitites while using such a powerfully negative. I personally think that when identified and used properly the one enhances the other. That is, animals work harder at first to avoid the negative, but when you reemphasize the positive they learn to work even harder for the that positive reenforcement. This scenario begins to create an ideal training opportunity because the use of positive reenforcement and the e-collar provide an enviornment with the "option" of the long range control.

that is what ahs worked for me and my dog. A very subtle approach with the end in mind at the beginning... not the reverse. I want my dog to understand that I will provide her the means to learn and be positively reenforced for her obedience and that is the ultimiate goal... I do not want her goal to be to avoid the negative reenforcement that I can rain down on her.

Take it for what you will ... and please, this is my personal view and by no means am I endorsing everyone in every situation to get or use an e-collar... that is your own personal choice. But for the sake of your dog and yourself... when you want to reach for that e-collar on the shelf... reach for the DVD or Video instead. It will do you both a load of good.


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