# 50 vs 45 caliber



## phil999 (Mar 9, 2004)

I am considering buying a .45 rather than a .50 calibre muzzleloader (TC Omega) for deer hunting. Does anyone have experience with both these calibres. Without sounding harsh, while asking for advice - Please don't turn this into an opinion-riddled ethical debate on what is an adequate rifle for the job.

Thanks,
Phil.


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## Nate P (Jun 1, 2004)

I have a 50 and a 45 and have shot deer with both. I have been using the 45 for the last few years and have been happy with it. Last year I switched to 225 grain powerbelt bullets to get a little more weight and was very impressed. The buck that I shot only went about 25 yards before dropping. I like the 45 better but only because it fits me a little better and I shoot it a little better than my 50. The 45 is supposed to be a little flatter shooting, but with open sights here in MN I usually don't shoot past 80 yards. Either of them will work good for you. The only thing I would use the 50 for now would be if I were to go after something larger than deer.


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## phil999 (Mar 9, 2004)

Nate,
Thanks for your input - that is exactly the kind of response I was after.
Phil.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Phil,

I have owned and used both calibers in a muzzleloader. If I recall, the ballistics on the .45 are a step above the .50. If your choice is based on performance and ballistics, I don't think that you can't go wrong with a .45.

The one advantage of the .50 caliber is the popularity of the caliber and ready availability of bullets and sabots at any decent sporting goods store. If you choice is based on popularity and bullet choices, you can't go wrong with a .50.

I once saw a chart (I don't remember where) that expressed the popularity of the .50 caliber over time. In a nutshell, popularity of the .50 increased dramatically after the movie Jeremiah Johnson. If you recall, Jeremiah Johnson (a mountain man played by Robert Redford) found another dead mountain man with a .50 caliber in his frozen hands. Jeremiah promptly went out and shot an elk. I think that lots of mountain man wannabes saw that and were convinced that the .50 caliber was the best caliber on the market.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Inline muzzleloading has seemingly fallen prey to the "when all else fails, add a caliber" syndrome that has afflicted centerfire rifle enthusiasts for years. In most cases a .45 caliber, 1:28 twist barreled inline muzzleloader offers no performance advantage at all--and is inferior in quantifiable ways. I'll mention just a few of them.

Fewer choices. The .45 caliber gives you less choice in rifles, bullets, and propellants. And, what is "available" may not be nearly as readily available should you "go .45."

More weight. Two of the most popular inlines made today, the Thompson/Center Omega and Encore, use identical non-tapered barrels for both .50 and .45 caliber versions. Thompson is not alone in this. Instead of a lighter, faster, handier gun in .45 caliber you get the same article with a smaller hole in the barrel. That means a heavier, nose-heavy gun; something most muzzleloaders do not want, much less need.

Fewer places to hunt. In states like Indiana and Illinois, minimum projectile size for whitetail remains .44 caliber. If you want to shoot saboted bullets in your .45 caliber muzzleloader, you are out of luck. In some states, elk hunting with your smokepole is limited to .50 caliber rifles and larger. Again, your .45 can't legally qualify.

There are other reasons that make the .45 caliber less than the ideal "first choice." Inefficient propellants like black powder and Pyrodex need barrel volume to fully burn heavier charges. In a .45 caliber, you necessarily have less of it. Those who enjoy burning the latest in propellants like Hodgdon's "Triple 7" pellets, have been using them in their .50 caliber muzzleloaders for some time now. If you are a .45 caliber shooter, you are still waiting.

There are other areas of concern, some subjective, some less so. .45 caliber rifles normally use loads that produce somewhat higher pressures due to less bore volume. This is reflected in the international C.I.P. published "maximum recommended service loads." This is also reflected in the Remington 700ML owner's manual that limits you to 90 grains of FFg black powder in .45 caliber, but 120 grains in .50 caliber.

With loading restrictions like that, there is little hope of a .45 caliber rifle delivering on its high velocity, flatter trajectory promises. All of this will come as little surprise to reloaders, who are well aware you cannot use a 12 gauge powder charge in 20 gauge hulls; nor can you blindly take a handgun powder and fill a .30-06 case with it. Just substituting wads in a shotshell load can dramatically alter pressure; there is no reason to think that a change of sabots in muzzleloading does not.

There are exceptions that may cause you to think differently, but they are rare. When the choice is bore-sized pure lead conicals, a White 98 .451 with a 1:20 twist barrel can handle heavier (460 grain) bullets well, and the smaller bore gives you a higher B.C. than is possible with the same bore-sized lead projectile in .50 caliber. When the choice is economical pure lead conicals, the .45 caliber can make more of the lead you are throwing. Already limited in velocity to 1400-1450 fps due to pure lead, longer bullets with a higher B.C. make plenty of sense. With guns that offer real benefit in size and weight to compliment the .45 caliber, such as the Thompson/Contender G2, the "lighter in the sling" and "faster handling" qualities may make enough difference for some to look at the .45 caliber inline as preferable, if the entire gun compliments the caliber, and hunting regulations allow it.

For the vast majority of inline muzzleloaders on the market today, however, the .45 caliber rifle remains a substandard caliber option with little or no real-world performance benefit--and plenty of potentially negative issues. With Cecil Epp's "Dead Center" saboted bullets, your .50 caliber in-line is already a .40 caliber bullet-placer with .300 to .340 B.C. missiles in 200, 220 and 240 grain weights. Some may feel it ethical to use lighter weight pure lead bullets on deer-sized game at long range from muzzleloaders, but I am not among them. Cecil Epp (or more correctly, his sons, who do all of the work), whether he admits it or not, has largely rendered the .45 caliber inline muzzleloading rifle obsolete even before it has gained a strong foothold on its second recent try.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Sasha and Abby, you have obviously done your homework and have a number of valid points. I should mention, however, that pressures related to Black Powder and its substitutes have very little relation to the pressures in shotguns, etc due to the nature of the powders. You are right, that shotgun reloads are very exact recipies, but muzzleloading is far more forgiving (within limits). I guess my biggest problem is that so many people want to get modern ballistics from a muzzle loader and, while there have been significant advances, you can't get 300 mag ballistics from ANY smokepole. You have seen that I shoot much shorter distances than you do in ND, but my favorite is an old 58 cal with Lee improved minis (at about 525 gr?) with 90 gr Pyrodex (volume). I may have to get a little Kentucky windage for longer shots, but when it gets there, I have no worries about the results. If I'm lucky, the projectile will not exit the deer, expending its entire energy on the deer, not on the hillside behind the deer. Of course, I did have to get on the bandwagon and I do have a 50 inline. It just isn't my favorite to shoot. Actually, my 50 flintlock is my favorite to shoot, just can't seem to get it tuned right. Probably my fault, don't know enough about what I'm doing.


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## gray squirrel (Apr 23, 2006)

arnt 50 cals agenst the law
:sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Not when they are muzzleloaders they aren't.

:sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

huntin1


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I believe the legal limit for muzzleloaders most places is 10 ga (75 cal). A friend of mine built his flintlock with a 62 cal barrel and loves it. Of course, he is somewhat masochistic.


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