# "Not our president!"



## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

A study of history.
Following the election, democrats complained.
The Republican candidate did not win the majority vote.
He only won via the electoral vote.
He will destroy our values.
He will destroy our way of life!
He is not our president.
He should be removed.

And so the democrats began a period of violence. They claimed to be exercising their rights.
And they finally succeeded in removing the president from office.
They assassinated Lincoln.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think the secret service will need to be extra vigilant, perhaps even more so after the election.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Two decades of Trump's tax returns have been released by the NYTimes.
Ha Ha Trump says he can't release his taxes because they are under audit. He is under audit because he owes 200 million in debt and 73 million in back taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!
He paid zero federal tax in 10 of the last 15 years.
He paid $750 the year he ran for the Presidency. How much did you pay?
Trump's tax returns prove he is using the Presidency to fund his failing business.
Too funny and Donnie says it is fake news. Truth is he made more money playing a business mogul on reality television than he EVER did in real life. :bop: :bop: :bop: :bop: :bop: :bop:
And he demands respect. uke:


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

Link Plz


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

Oh it's all over the news with a repeated NY Times story. What they don't emphasize is they don't really have his tax returns in hand but leaks in unnamed sources. What the cool aid drinkers don't want to say is trump has had no income since he has been in office. No income, no tax to be paid. All of his president salary is donated to charity. All of his businesses is in trust which he has no control.

Here is something the cool aid drinkers also won't tell you. "On March 14, 2017, the first two pages of Trump's 2005 federal income tax returns were leaked to Rachel Maddow and shown on MSNBC. The document states that Trump had a gross adjusted income of $150 million and paid $38 million in federal taxes. The White House confirmed the authenticity of these documents and claimed: "Despite this substantial income figure and tax paid, it is totally illegal to steal and publish tax returns." Still want to claim he never pays taxes? At least half the NY Times story is a repeat of what they tried in 2016 with so called unnamed sources.

So you cool aid drinkers keep swallowing and throwing mud. It didn't work in 2016 and doubt it will work in 2020. I know a court or grand jury can get hold of tax returns but isn't it illegal to publish someones individual tax returns? The NY Times story is just another anonymous source story that proves nothing.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Resky they never learn. Its not that they are not intellegent its infection of TDS.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Keep apologizing and rationalizing there boyz. He is counting on it.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Trump claimed $70,000 for "hair styling"...He wasted your money.... :bop: :bop:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Trump recently lost two state-level civil tax fraud cases where he "rigged" (sound familiar) his tax reductions.
It is clear that the Presidency is being used to save his business interests.
It is also clear that Trump has "double-dipped" by paying his wife over $750,000 in consulting fees and then deducting the expense.
He has made horrible business decisions.
He has either lied about his success or lied about his failures. Which is it?
The NYT is now reviewing every decision Trump has made as President where there is direct benefit to his businesses. It is clear that you all get over-charged when some Despot Dictator stays at a Trump hotel, or when Pence travels all the way across Scotland in order to satay in a Trump facility. 
So you are all okay with that?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If he claimed hair style expense it wasnt our money it was his. Its good when rich people are lavish with their money because that supports people with less money ------ like me if I had a business. 
Remember Trump is donating his salary to charity. Also if I remember officials who stayed in his hotel were not charged.



> He has either lied about his success or lied about his failures. Which is it?


 Let me get this straight you think he lied and dont like him if he is a success or failure. Your not leaving any options your hating him no matter what. See why we call it Trump Derangment Syndome?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I havent read the article... but have seen the talking heads on TV go off on it....

I am like Resky... it states UNNAMED SOURCES.... until they are actual documentation... I wont believe a NYT story. Think of all the others ones they have published that have been proven LIES. SO I will do like I always do... and wait for more info.

But things people are not considering.... Him "personally" might not be paying taxes... but his corps, entities, etc are. You can arrange things to show "no income" yet your businesses are making billions. Which you as a share holder are making money and you dont pay taxes on it until you sell your shares type thing. There are many different ways to show or not show income. You can differ income for years down the line if you "re-invest".... think Amazon. :bop:

But again... I will just wait and see on this one.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

His so called tax deductions take money from the USA coffers.
You are a citizen of the USA.
That is "your" money that your elected officials use to run the country, no?

I ran my own consulting business for almost 40 years. When I had to pay a lot of tax it meant I had a good year and made a bunch of money. My accountant always said be happy paying that income tax. Legal deductions are just that. So you are okay with a claim for $70,000 dollars to keep Trumps phony hair in place? Double dipping fees paid to his family? Clearly you are okay with it. Like Trump said during the debate with Hilary, he was "smart" to not pay taxes. Does that mean those who do represent themselves honestly are stupid?

Too bad you guys have no other choices and have to support and prop up Trump. I have said before, if he was your neighbor you probably would no longer give him the time of day after getting to know what kind of a man he was.

And I agree, what I think is irrelevant. What you think is what is important.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck...

I too am a business owner and like you it is the same exact situation. I can't "difer" money down the road like a Trump or Besos (amazon owner)...

But one thing i just read on all of this (dont know if it is 100% true or not). Is that this is a loop hole or a tax break about deffering money down the line was put in place by Obama Administration to help "boost" the economy. Again i dont know if it is true or not.

But it is the system that is in place. Also I have been reading that the article talks about his "loses"... yep... I knew all about those losses back on failed companies. Is that part of the reason why he paid in no taxes?? Think about it if he shows a 10 Million loss on a business... (it went belly up)... he can defer that loss onto future income. Again think AMAZON. Also I read that he paid in something like $30 million or more from 2005-2007. So again is this all about moving losses to another year??

Also you talk about how he is "taking money from the people"... Well he is also donating his $400K salary a year. So while he is in office he is making a net $0 from a "salary". So all of his expenses ie: Personal expenses are not deductions.

Do I agree with having large deductions like that... NOPE. But it is the system. If I could write off things like that i would. But I dont have to be infront of a camera every day. That amount he "writes off" on his hair is about $200 a day. Which ask women how much does it cost them to do their hair a pop? Coloring (yes trump colors it), styling, GLUE (i am sure they use something so it doesn't blow off), etc. So if he has a "stylist" do his hair every day before he goes on camera, to a meeting, etc. I can honestly see that amount being needed. Again I dont agree with it but I can see it. :bop:

BTW... Pelosi on her flights writes off about $1000 in Booze for her and her staff (or something like that was reported once). Do I agree you should get drunk on the tax payer dime... NOPE but it happens and is a legal write off.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Just read a very good take on this whole tax "article"....

The guy put it into simple terms...

1. Trump isn't the business man he "thinks" he is.
2. He differs money and losses
3. He owes money to "creditors"
4. WE NEED TO KNOW WHO THOSE CREDITORS ARE...

The last one is the biggest thing I agree with. We need to see who these "creditors" are. Then if are they getting "contracts" by the goverment now. Because lets just say now his "creditors" are getting lots of US contracts... that is a HUGE ISSUE. Which will need to be looked at...ie: were they the best bid, have they performed these types of contracts before (ie: construction doing construction... not a construction guy doing intelligence work). But it was a good little break down.

Also remember way before on the whole tax issue.... I commented on that I am sure the reason why Trump wasn't giving out his taxes is because he wasn't as "rich" as he claims and doesn't want to tarnish that image... hmmmm..... is kind of what is coming to light. But no fraud, russian connection, etc. Just showing a man differing taxes, not as rich as he says, lots of bad or failed business moves, etc.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Attached is a snippet from the NYT tax article.

Read that closely. Trump PAID, as in transferred to the US Treasury, $1 million in 2016 and $4.2 million in 2017. Note also that most of the overpayment was rolled forward, not refunded. The $750 figure is an ADDITIONAL $750. Thus every single story saying he paid $750 is a lie.

So what the media is reporting is he OWED an additional $750 in.

BTW... just notice that the article just came out and there is already AD's about fire fighters, police, nurses paying in more than $750 a year. How was this produced ad already out there in less than a few days.... Something to think about.

Just like the Atlantic article the next day was a fully produced ad out on TV and the web.... hmmmmmm.....


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Also I forgot to add in.

The NYT's also stated for years that his "tax" returns would show Russian influence.... WELL... Why wouldn't they lead with that as the "first" in the series of articles??

Again we will have to see what will be talked about in the next few "articles". That is if the NYTs doesn't get sued or investigated. Remember all of this info they are showing is against the law to show. I know they said that their source has "legal access"... well just because you have legal access doesn't mean you can share the info. It is like a bank giving out all of your info when you fill out a loan application. They have legal access to it... but they can't give that info to others.

But again... so far. I am reading this isn't that big of deal. But like I mentioned... who does he owe the money too and are these people "reaping" any benefits.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> His so called tax deductions take money from the USA coffers.
> You are a citizen of the USA.
> That is "your" money that your elected officials use to run the country, no?


 If we were a communist country you woukd be right. Here in the United States its your money, not the governments. Millions of Americans write off expenses. None of them pay more taxes than they have to. Joe Biden does the same thing, and voted for it to wofk that way. If you own a corporation you can take a $50k salary and give yourself a four million dollar bonus. You pay income tax on all of it, but you only pay SS on the 50k.

There will be a new bombshell every three or four days. There will be some people who will believe every one. Its sad thst with no basis the hate is so pervasive. Our media is enemy number one.

The God hating left is giving themselves awsy with their hate for Amy Barrett.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> If we were a communist country you woukd be right.


So your military runs on fairy dust?

That and the fact Trump owes Turkey Millions of dollars is why dictators like Erdogan get a free pass from Trump.

More fairy dust....................... oke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> So your military runs on fairy dust?


 No we pay taxes, but a few years ago a democrat got a lot of guff for calling it "our money". I think it was a tax cut he was debating and something about giving "our money" to the rich. I dont remember exactly, but he was quickly reminded this is America and its not the gov money. To think otherwise is to think like a communist.

But back to the hairstyle wasting "our money". The only tax money Trump gets that he coukd spend and write off his taxes is his salary and he gives that to charity. Even if he kept it he esrned it and can spend as he lijes. Earning it makes it his money. Did you ever have an employer where you had to have their approval for purchases? Why do you think Trump should have your approval?


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

He could spend $700,000 on his hair for all I care.
The problem is when your tax laws allow him to write of "unreasonable" deductions such as his hairdo bill and paying his daughter $750,000 a year then writing that off as an "expense".
If your government collected taxes from the rich the same as they do from the middle class and poor folks, maybe the country could afford a better pandemic response? Maybe then we can open our border to Americans again. And before you all freak out and tell me you have the best health care system in the world, by a better response I am talking about a consistent federal, country-wide effort. Trump can't seem to coordinate anything like that.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Contrary to the false impression in the New York Times story, Donald Trump did not avoid taxes. He prepaid them.
> 
> In and 2017, he requested and got an extension to file his returns. As required, he made an estimated tax payment of $1 million in 2016 and $4.2 million in 2017.
> 
> Then, it turned out that he did not owe that much in taxes, but rather than demand the money back, he let the IRS keep it and apply it to any future tax he owed.


You dont know much about the United States Canuck or you would reslize that the top 5% pay over half the taxes in our country. I dont hate the rich like you do Canuck I am greatful for them. If we all had to pay what is really fair I being middle class would have to pay much more. Thank you president Trump for shouldering so much of my tax burden. Thank you also for employing people and allowing them to provide for their family. Thank you mostly for rescuing our nation from the barbaric remorseless liberals.

As far as what he pays his daughter he can psy anything he wsnts snd write it off. So can anyone else. Even farmers I know do it. They also split up land ownership to take advantage of some gov support programs. Salary sucks there is no write off.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is a thing nobody is talking about...

You know the differed taxes and the "re-investing" stuff Trump used that many are "complaining" about. Was something the Obama administration put in during the recession to help boost the economy. Again... they are complaining about a law that OBAMA put in. They are BLAMING TRUMP FOR USING A LAW PUT IN BY OBAMA. This goes to show you how much of a derangement syndrom there really is. A person using a law or "loop hole" is now WRONG. He should look at every democrat and say well then do you take advantage of deductions or do you just pay in straight up based off you income? Not one of them could answer that as a yes. oke:

Anyways this is all a huge NOTHING BURGER so far. But like I mentioned is we need to see who is his "personal" debt owed too and make sure that they are not getting special treatment. But we will just have to wait and see.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Plainsman you are right I do not understand the USA.
You elevate politicians to the level of gods.
You honor bravery and love of country then give way too much power to some guy who has jerked the system around since day one.
The leader of your military ran and hid behind "bone spurs".
He calls the brave ones losers. He calls the dead ones stupid.
And yet you guys love him. I do not get it.
Politicians are public servants. Not movie stars (hey wait a minute).

So is the debate going to get ugly or will it be respectful and civil?

Waste of time that will change no one's minds?


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

> Hillary and Bill Clinton famously donated Bill's used underwear and took a $2 per-pair tax deduction on their 1986 tax return. In Bill's own handwriting, here is the line from the 1986 Clinton tax return, claiming a $6 deduction for "3 pr. underwear":
> 
> Most press reports have focused on the strangeness of the used underwear donation and tax deduction. But the new examination of handwritten notes reveals the Clintons cheated on their taxes by significantly overstating the value of their donated clothing. These are not simple rounding errors of a few percentage points: The Clintons overstated the value of their used clothing by a factor of several hundred percent.
> And not just the underwear, but many items of clothing including suits, pants, and sports coats.


Remember this? At the same time the Clintons pushed for a national gun tax, a soda tax, a payroll tax hike on middle income households, a Death Tax hike, a capital gains tax hike and several other tax hikes totaling $1.4 trillion over a decade. Talk about greed and dishonesty, there it is.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> He calls the brave ones losers. He calls the dead ones stupid.


This was proven to be FALSE. But the media will never admit it. That is the huge issue.



> Politicians are public servants. Not movie stars (hey wait a minute).


Well two so far have been TV or "movie" stars... oke: Others just like the camera even more than them... LOL

The problem is that our elected officials forget that they WORK FOR THE PEOPLE. Not interest groups, not their political party. They work for the WHOLE COUNTRY. Even if a Democrat wins they still have to make legislation that fits the ideals of Republicans and Independents. But they forget this. Same can be said about Republicans... they need to make legislation for Democrats and Independents. But they all would rather point fingers at each other and not meet in the middle. They use things as hostages to get what they want... LOOK AT THE COVID STUFF.... stimulus is still being held hostage... to push for one political parties ideals and wish list. But they wont give on the other political parties wish list either. So it is a crock of crap in our legislative branch right now... ALL OF THEM.

Now to the debates.... Here is my take. It wont change many peoples minds. The bases are trenched in big time. You might sway a few people. But honestly the best push for the Republicans is that many Dem's havent spoken out about the "riots" and stuff. They Defund push is making many that were "left" leaning move towards the right. Just like the "race" stuff is pushing people from the right many more left...ie: wanting "change" (Obama slogan that helped him win). But I honestly think it is a waste of time. Especially they will ask Softball type questions. They wont go after Harris about why she hasn't spoken out against the riots and looting (she finally did last week). Why has she donated money to getting these "looters" out of jail? That wont be asked. They wont ask her about how she attacked Kavanaugh but is letting Biden pass on his allegations of touching women.... she attacked him in the primary debates... but not now. You know things like that. Then they wont press Trump on anything either.

It will be talking about COVID.... which honestly neither of them could have done a different thing. Because it tramples on states rights. A national mask mandate is the only thing Trump could have possibly done... but again... STATES RIGHTS. Biden couldn't have done anything either different more or less. Like I keep saying... States rights is what "blocks" much of what people think should have been done. But anyways... I will watch the debate. But it wont be civil at all.... IMHO.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Some breaking news...

1. Trump wants the ears checked of both of them before the debate for "hearing aids" or "devices" so that someone can't give Biden answers.

2. Biden wants breaks every 30 mins in a 90 min debate.

3. Drug testing for both parties... Biden said NO.

So these three things are interesting.

1. If a president cant come up with answers off the cuff how can they do it in press confrences or at meetings with other countries.

2. If you can't stand and talk for 90 mins with out needing a break... how can you run a country?

3. Biden and others have been claiming Trump is on something (aderal) for months...now they wont take a drug test themselves...

I know this is all kind of trivial stuff but it shows you how this debate will go... it will be a [email protected] show. I saw someone posted a meme from the movie "grumpy old men" where the two main characters were fighting and said "tonights debate". I found it funny. :bop:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Chuck I don't know if Trump's words were proven false or were just not corroborated by other sources.
I have seen Trump say enough about war heroes, wounded and captured soldiers, John McCain and others that I believe he could have said those things.
It would have been easy for Biden to take a different tack from Trump on the pandemic response. Trump seemed to fight/diverge with experts over masking and distancing. His actions were echoed by many Republicans, especially in rural areas. There just did not seem to be any plan of attack for reducing Covid numbers and subsequent deaths. Other countries have so far been able to suffer less deaths per capita than the USA. This is confusing because your medical system is supposedly the best there is. It seems to me that personal freedoms are placed ahead of what is good for all. "No one is going to tell me what to do" is the attitude that prevails.
And Trump's actions give them the justification they need to not distance and not wear masks and to make fun of those who do.
This attitude is starting to rear it's head in Canada.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

.


> No one is going to tell me what to do" is the attitude that prevails.


  Your starting to get the idea. oke: We have died for freedom. Not only our own. but even for the freedom of others. BLM should not be protesting in Minneapolis because their ansestors died for the freedom of their ansestors. But then they are really not a civil rights group, they are Marxists enciting violence and mascaurading as civil rights.

Biden has told us what he would do to stop covid. However Trump had already done all those same things months before. With that information the covid argument is moot because nothing would be different. Grasp for a different straw than taxes, Russia, or Covid. Im sure Soros or one of his lackies could pay another hooker to come forward. Maybe in a couple of weeks to give her time to study her lines.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> This is confusing because your medical system is supposedly the best there is


Here is the problem with COVID and also the numbers getting reported in the USA.... THE GOVERMENT AND THE SYSTEM MADE IT PROFITABLE OR MONITIZED COVID.... yes I meant for that to be in caps. That is the problem. The Hospitals are getting "kick backs" for anything related to COVID. They are getting funding because of COVID. That is the problem with the numbers. The CDC has come out from the get go saying they wont have "True numbers" for years about covid. Also hospitals are erring on the side of caution... what that means is they are saying things are "covid" or "covid" related. For two reasons why they are doing that... #1 Liability and #2 is they get money for it.

So lets say that Covid disappears right now... and the USA is at 200K deaths. Here is the arguement: people who are in hospice who are going to die from Cancer and then pass.... if they have COVID it is marked as "covid related" death. So out of the 200K number of deaths that person is in that group. But what really took them out is CANCER. So that 200K number will change and change about 10 times in the next few years once the CDC goes thru everything. But the hospital has cancer and COVID listed as the death. They are getting goverment kick backs because it was listed as COVID. So you see the issue and problem with this and the numbers. They are not 100% accurate. In MN they have something like 52 "Probable" COVID deaths... which means they dont know if they had covid or not. It isn't even the cancer example I used it is just that the people had "sympthoms" and that the testing was "inconclusive". So those are 52 out of the 200K number that could change. Now you might say that isn't a big number... but MN has 2020 deaths... that is 2.5% of deaths. So multiply that by the 200K number that is 5000 deaths that shouldn't be on the books. Then add in the cancer stuff. And remember NYC had over 15000 deaths that came from Nursing homes. What if half of those show COVID wasn't the "killer"... So that is another 7500 deaths off the books and what not...we can go state to state and the number COULD decrease. Still it isn't good but the number will change.

You say his "plan"... again nobody had a "plan" for this type of thing. He streamlined testing, vaccine advancement, people producing masks, PPE equipment, ventilators, etc. He went with Dr. Fauci right away saying... wash hands, stay 6 ft apart, don't gather in big groups. He did this all right away in the "14 days" to flatten the curve. But then what threw all of that out the window is the RIOTS, PROTESTING, MASS FUNERAL, ETC. How can you say social distance for Church but dont when you go loot and riot... i mean "protest". So you see when you allow the "protest" happen you have to let the Church meeting happen. Otherwise you are trampling on rights in the constitution. Then it all goes back to states rights. Which is huge in the USA. that is why you see CA and NY shut down and FL saying "FU" and we will be open. because it is the rights of the individual states to say what is right for its people. They can "over rule" the Federal goverment. It is how our goverment is set up.

The only thing Trump could have done is actually wear the mask himself more in public. That is honestly about it.

Now we will get back to the "trump and war heros" BS... it has all been proven false that he called them this especially against the "atlantic" article. Now I will give you he did bad talk Mc Cain. That is why everything gets traction and people run with those stories. But the Atlantic Story was proven totally false. :bop:

But this Debate could be interesting... I am still waiting for Biden or his camp to "back out" because some "rules" might not be met. But it is too late to do that now... It would have had to happen last week. But it will be interesting how it will go and the "softball" questions that will be asked.

Again you wont hear these...

1. Mr. Biden why did your son recieve 3.5 Million from Russia?

2. Mr. Trump why dont you release your Taxes... (The answer will be the same we have heard... Under audit)

3. Mr. Biden why didn't you come out and denounce the violence happening with the "protests" and the "looting" that took place? (at the begining he was against defunding the police)

4. Mr Biden from the recent findings about Gen. Flynn, FBI text messages, Russian spy who was the main source of the Steel Dossier, etc... did you know about the abuses going on and were you ever brieffed about the going after the Trump team? Or the corruption in the FBI? Also what will you do to ensure that doesn't happen again?

5. Mr. Trump how will you make sure that the same abuses that happened to you with the FBI doesn't happen again? (this will be a tough question for him because he would have to "clean" house and you know that wont happen... it hasn't yet)

6. Mr. Trump you said Mexico will pay for the wall... they havent.. why???

7. Trump/Biden... what do you think of the "ballot" harvesting investigation in MN and what do you think about the stuff being found out about "mail in" ballots being dumpped and what not. How would you help protect the integrity of our election and its results? Would you accept these results?

you see we wont get those questions. uke:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> Not only our own. but even for the freedom of others.


Except now Plainsman it seems that anything that could be done for the good for the people as a whole is seen by Americans to be "socialist" and something to be feared. As an example, and Chuck will get this, if the USA had a federal plan for purchasing things like medications and PPE huge cost savings can be had, especially with the buying power a central/one source entity would have. Social medicine!!!!!!!!!! RUN AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Health care isn't the gov business. Keeping the pharma from ripping us of is gov business. So if they can get the price under control (which Trump has already helped) then I'm all for it.



> 7. Trump/Biden... what do you think of the "ballot" harvesting investigation in MN and what do you think about the stuff being found out about "mail in" ballots


 A big case in Texas today too. Canuck remember asking me why they couldn't all perform like North Dakota? Because there are more people in those states, hence more corrupt liberals. Isn't it odd that all the illegal activity is by democrats? Why do you suppose that is? I just don't understand it. :rollin: oke:



> anything that could be done for the good for the people


 That would be protecting the American people against socialism so they don't become a gov tit sucking pantywaist.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> That would be protecting the American people against socialism so they don't become a gov tit sucking pantywaist.


Plainsman...you make my point exactly.
The right wing Republicans want "herd immunity" (or herd mentality as Trump calls it) but will do nothing in return for the herd.
Screw them all.
Where does that get you?


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

I don't have a horse in this race so you can tell me to shut up and f$*K off if you want but here goes.
I am not a religious person but I am praying for the USA tonight.
The moderator had no control. Trump could not shut up and quit with his interruptions. Biden could not get his words out.
That was a sh%t show. There was one loser. The people of the USA.
Trump blew it. Biden blew it. 
I will now flock off.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

No......Chris Wallace blew it. He didn't moderate anything. He needed to stop the interruptions as soon as it started.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't think there was a winner or a loser. Trump as expected did start the interruptions but Biden did his share also. One thing Trump did not do was call Biden names like racist, liar, or stupid but Biden did. Biden also would not answer several questions like packing the court or doing away with the filibuster. Biden even said "oh shut up man" when Trump was given the go ahead to talk by 
Wallace. As for Chris Wallace, what would you expect from a liberal. He may work for Fox news but he is no conservative or even a moderate so I was not surprised he jumped Trump often and not Biden.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Your right Ken, but even further the internet is blowing up about the poor performance of wallace on two fronts. No control as you mentioned, but also Trump had to debate Joe and Chris Wallace.

I wish Trump would have been a little more calm, but I think Biden still lost. Biden did better than I expected, but I sure wish I knew what he was on because I may need it some day.

I think what hurt Biden was he wouldnt answer the question about packing the court or ending the filibuster. Also he said ANTIFA was just an idea. He said protests were peaceful. Again Biden went for the simpathy pitch about his son in the military. His son didnt die in combat he died of cancer years later. A tragedy for sure, but no proof Biden supports the military. Bidens other son was booted from the military for cocain, and has been getting money from enemies of this country.

Also Biden would not say he supports law an order. He coukdnt do that without loosing his radical base. He tried to hide that he met with Bernie Sanders and he did sign on with the green new deal. Biden served up a full platter of lies.

Some guy in Hollywood had a humorous outlook on the debate. He said Trump crushed his opponent Chris Wallace. He said there was another person on stage too that kept muttering to himself.

Biden will have to answer why in the past he voted for laws that hurt blacks and why he spoke so derogatory of them. He couldnt name one law enforvement group that supported him. Evidently neither of them were aware of the mail in vote fraud that hS already happened.

I see they are rating the debates giving a percentage as an indicator. So far these focus groups are ranging 60/40 to 70/30 in Trumps favor. Better than I expected.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Just seen the focus group from Scranton. Equal numbers thought Trump or Biden won, but the majority thought neither won.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

So if nobody one, who lost.

When Trump was asked to put down white supremacists he could not do it. He did the opposite and told the Proud Boys to prepare to "Stand By".

When Biden spoke of his son who served in the military, Trump poo pooed him and brought up Hunter Biden. Trump always poo poos the military.

One of the best lines of the night When Trump was talking about the threats immigrants and black people are to the American suburbs, Biden said "You wouldn't know a suburb unless you made a wrong turn"...clearly Trump does not realize black and brown people DO live in the suburbs.

The other funny line was when Biden challenged Trump to get off the golf course and do something about Covid...Trump stated that Joe probably played more golf than he did.

One more...the leader of the Proud Boys denies the holocaust took place. How do you think that makes Jarrod feel?

Four more years?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

As a Diabetic......my favorite Trump line was

"Insulin will be as cheap as water."

If this was true I might even consider voting for the Clown. I spend a lot of money on insulin. Even with insurance. But then another lie from the King of Liars. :eyeroll:

I paid more federal taxes than the clown did in 11 of the past 18 years. Of course anyone paying $1 paid more than he did :huh: :huh: :huh:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> "Insulin will be as cheap as water."


That would be true if Trump "socialized" health care and bought Insulin from Canada. :thumb:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I paid more federal taxes than the clown did in 11 of the past 18 years. :huh: :huh: :huh:


 The bs is deep this morning. :rollin: I think you will find you suckered for the umpteenth time. oke:

Were you guys listening to the same debate?



> "Insulin will be as cheap as water."


 You guys do know what hyperbole is right???? I sure hope you haven't gouged your eyes out because Jesus said " if your eye offends thee pluck it out".



> When Trump was asked to put down white supremacists he could not do it. He did the opposite and told the Proud Boys to prepare to "Stand By".


 First of all Wallace performed terribly bringing the lie into the debate. Trump never said there were good people in the white supremisist group. I also thought Trump said Proud Boys stand down not stand by. As for Proud Boys I dont know much about them. Since they oppose ANTIFA Im sure any loyal democrat will label them white supremisist. They throw rasist around so much Im not sure they know what it means. I have noticed that when reason fails their objective they start name calling. Logic is not their cup of tea.

Did anyone notice Biden lie and say everything about his sin and Barisma has been cleared up? Why didnt Wallace ask Biden that question. We just heard that Hunter got 3.5 million from the wife of the mayor of Moscow. What for. We also learned in the past few days that our intelligence agency knew about Hillary using a Russian spy for the fake dossier and that Obama had been briefed and further they turned this information over to the FBI. Obama weaponized the FBI. Why didnt Wallace ask Biden how much he knew about this. Wallace did not hide his bias. Remember he has voted democrat all his life. As a matter of fact every moderator this year is a democrat. Trump is fighting a rigged system from the swamp.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

My thoughts on the debate.... IT WAS HORRIBLE. Wallace did a very poor job and it was a disgrace to everyone and to the USA for showing how our possible leaders look.

There was no winner, no loser, they each get a participation ribbon and a cookie and juice box for the way the children acted on stage. Biden could have looked amazing if he didn't interrupt Trump and just sat there and nodded and just kept asking for his time back. Trump would have burned himself to the ground.

Now to Canucks comment:



> if the USA had a federal plan for purchasing things like medications and PPE huge cost savings can be had, especially with the buying power a central/one source entity would have.


Now I agree that having that MASS buying power would help lower costs. Just like the "walmart" model. If you dont know that that is I will quickly explain that to you. Walmart will go to a company and say.... we what 50K of a product and X cost. If that company says OK. The contract happens and bang... big business. Then walmart will come back to that company next year and say... we want 50K of that product at X-1 cost. That company says... we cant do that with the increase in wages, taxes, employees we needed to get you that product and expansion. Walmart says... FU and moves to the next company and does the same thing. Then after that product has run its course (ie: walmart doesn't carry it anymore) They move on. You might say... this is great and is what "capitalism" is all about. You are correct. But the thing you don't understand is that the quality of the product goes down. LOOK at some of the products in Walmart. Look how they sourced stuff out side of the USA. Now with medical... do you want that type of situation? You might be getting insulin that is half water because it needs to be that cheap.

I know Canuck keeps talking about Canada.... look at the drugs you get and where do they come from? Not many are manufactured in Canada. They come from over seas or the USA. Which is good because you can keep the price low and get the generics right away. In the USA you cant get the generics right away because of the patent laws. Here is a quick take.... Myself and Plainsman each own a company. We are making a drug to cure diabetes. We are each at year 9 or so in the process.... I beat him to the market by 1 month. So I get the rights to push this pill for 10 years because of patent laws. So he is stuck for ten years. What he does is makes or markets it as a generic... and goes to Canada, Mexico, Europe, etc and starts to sell it to make his money back. I can't market mine as a "generic" in these countries because I was the first. So my marketing in those countries is different and my price point is different because of the USA laws. So my only market is really the USA because the "generic" ones can under cut my pricing. What I just talked about is the very brief cut version. But it is the gist of it.

A drug company has 10 years to make its money back before a generic can hit the market. But I have gone over this 100 times about how the laws in the USA make it so a drug company can rape and pillage for 10 years. But I have also talked about how the US goverment makes it so expensive to bring a drug to market. At one time it about 1 billion to bring a drug to market. Yes it costs 1 BILLION before they can sell 1 pill. Here is something that is crazy.... Lets say I own a company working on a pill for the flu. you need something like 10 years of study and want not to bring it to market... I am at year 9 and I find out the side affect of this pill will cure diabetes. I mean it cured all of the patients I had with diabetes... it cured them. So I bring this to the Food and drug and say... well can I take it to trials for moving in this direction.... THEY SAY SURE.... But you start and year 1. So now I have to have 19 years of work that I already done 9 years to make it safe but I need another 10 years of BS to bring it to market... .so now I have $2 billion into this pill before I made one dime off it. Yea that is how our system works and how we need to clean up red tape.

Plainsman is correct and like I talked about is what needs to be reeling in is... THE COST OF DOING MEDICINE. Why does something cost so much? Look at how hospitals could streamline things, Look at how drug companies could streamline things (perfect example is the COVID VACCINE). Also look how things went with making PPE and what not because of covid... lots of the red tape was cleared for people to make stuff quickly. Hmmmm.... did this outbreak actually open the eyes of what is wrong with our medical system in place??? Cut some of the BS red tape. Cut down on some of the liability laws out there.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Chuck I have to run out and batten down the hatches before we get hit by a big rain and wind storm rolling in. RE: your Walmart versus drug companies model. I have time for one comment Walmart's model has tiny margins. Just as you said Drug companies (in the USA) can charge insane margins, for years. So people cross the border and buy drugs here. How does that help the USA? It helps individuals for sure unless we lose our own supply to profiteering. I still think you have room for some hybrid plan but people seem to fear the concept. More to follow. Sorry if I have offended your medical/pharmaceutical business but we don't have to water down our insulin. It was invented here in Canada and is not heavily patent protected. Markups are low but drug co's still make money. It is all about what is fair and reasonable. For the good of the people, eh.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> It was invented here in Canada and is not heavily patent protected. Markups are low but drug co's still make money.


BINGO... you hit the nail right on the head. Hence I keep talking about cutting REGULATIONS in the USA. But the sad part is that lawyers dont want regulations or liability laws looked at. It is there bread and butter for making MILLIONS.

Also the reason why US citizens go across the border to get meds is exactly what I talked about. They can get a generic that isn't available in the USA. Or they can get the regular even cheaper than in the USA because that drug needs to be priced correctly in Canada/Mexico to be somewhat competative. Lets say a drug costs $20 a pill in the USA for the Original... in Canada/Mexico it could cost $10 a pill for the Regular and the generic only costs $8. So it could be a savings of $10-12 per pill for someone. Just because of patent laws and what not.

I also agree there could be a hybrid model as well to a certain extent. When Trump opened up the VA stuff. What he did is the people who are covered under VA dont just have to go to VA hospitals. They can go elsewhere for medical help. Well this gave some barggening power.

Now also to just go off a little more about the "walmart" model. If the USA would go to a national system... with out Lobby laws... One company could get a monopoly on drug sales... then charge what they want as long as they are in the pockets of our elected officials. I dont know if Canada has the Lobby BS going on like it is in the USA. Just think about it...most politicians leave office MILLIONARES.... how can they when the salary is only in the thousands? Yep... think about it.

The USA system is messed up in many ways.... lobbyists, patent/copywright laws, red tape to get thru to make something get to market, FDA laws and regulations, etc. Then jump in about what could possible curb some of this... TERM LIMITS for politicians. But there is messed up and is why people call Washington DC the SWAMP... and why Trump appeals to people when he says... DRAIN THE SWAMP... or calls everyone CROOKED who doesn't agree with him. Because he is half correct...but he hasn't done anything to really "DRAIN THE SWAMP" yet... and both sides of the swamp need to be drained. :beer:

If people dont believe me in what I am saying about costs.... here is a wiki page. This doesn't even touch what the red tape is and the BS about the R&D side of things. Like I mentioned... you can be working on a cure for cancer and in year 5 of the R&D stage you find out that it could cure diabetes... and that means with all the data you collected for those 5 years will get tossed and you got to start from day 1 in the process just to move in a certain direction. Even though you will be doing the same stuff over again. So that is another 5 years of expenses just because you got to the Y in the road and want to go left instead of right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_drug_development


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Trump is a racist. Not condemning White Supremists when he was asked several time along with Proud Boys is reprehensible. What a loser.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

> Trump is a racist. Not condemning White Supremists when he was asked several time along with Proud Boys is reprehensible. What a loser.


That's a crock of bull. Stop listening to Biden and the democrats lies. If you knew what you were talking about you would know where this lie started was the demonstration in a Charlottesville rally for and against the removal of a confederate statue. When Trump said there were was very fine people on both sides, he was referring to the demonstrators, not the hate groups that that showed up and mingled with them. Trump has condemned those groups from day one.



> Trump, Aug. 14, 2017: As I said on Saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. It has no place in America.
> And as I have said many times before: No matter the color of our skin, we all live under the same laws, we all salute the same great flag, and we are all made by the same almighty God. We must love each other, show affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. We must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as Americans.
> 
> Racism is evil. And those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans.
> ...


The next day:


> During a press conference the following day, Aug. 15, 2017, Trump explained his initial "many sides" comment.
> 
> "You had a group on one side that was bad," Trump said. "And you had a group on the other side that was also very violent." He added, "I've condemned neo-Nazis. I've condemned many different groups, but not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me. Not all of those people were white supremacists by any stretch."


Same day with a reporter:


> Reporter: The neo-Nazis started this thing. They showed up in Charlottesville. &#8230;
> 
> Trump: Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo - and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group - excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down, of to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. &#8230;
> 
> It's fine, you're changing history, you're changing culture, and you had people - and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally - but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists, okay?


No need for a entire book here but take off the blinders and hatred long enough to get your facts straight. :bop:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Take off the blinders????? Boy is that the pot calling the kettle black. You wouldn't know the truth if it steps up and bites you. No one lies more than the clown in the Wh. Just keep being a lemming and follow him over the cliff. You are the one who doesn't have a clue for what that guy is trying to sell us.....

This site is depressing.....time to hit the road for awhile. Better things to do. So don't bother replying......So long guys.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

I am sure you wont see this. But the President that just put the KKK on the terrorist list is the one you are calling a white supremist. Yes... think about what you just typed.

Also there are black, hispanic, asian, etc. members of the proud boys.

So to call them a "white supremist" group is totally false. Now I have read that one of there "leaders" wrote some antisemetic stuff years ago. But I am not sure if he is apart of the group or not now. But this group is a mix of all races. Just stating facts.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Trump is a racist. Not condemning White Supremists when he was asked several time along with Proud Boys is reprehensible. What a loser.


 While Wallace was talking over him after asking if he would condemn white supremesists did you not hear him say yes twice? Then someone brought up Proud Boys. Like Trump I don't know that much about them. All I do know is they oppose ANTIFA which is the liberals hero's. So does opposing ANTIFA make them white supremesists or are they really white suppremesists? As I see it opposing ANTIFA simply makes you a patriot. As far as I know at this moment Proud Boys are a very conservative patriotic malitia. Ken are you sure this isn't just another name calling smear job?

I have a challenger for you. I hear all the time liberals say they have an open mind. Good deal. If it's true then read the letter I will post here from my phone in a few minutes.

Edit:

In a nut shell! 
A TOTALLY DISENCHANTED DEMOCRAT SENT THIS. TRY TO PUNCH HOLES IN THIS! These facts speak volumes about the DNC.
The woman who researched and wrote this lives in Sedona and is a retired lawyer. She writes in simple language as a former Democrat to all Democrats in general:
Democrats -
Now I know you don't like President Trump. That's a given, SO let's move on from that.
How about the division of America. Do you really blame Trump for that? How about when NONE of the DEMOCRATS showed up for his inauguration? Don't you think that started the division? He hadn't even been president yet, and EXCEPT for Clinton and Obama, not one Democrat showed up. Is that when Trump divided America? Can you imagine if the REPUBLICANS didn't show up for Obama's inauguration because they lost? Can you even start to imagine what would have happened?
How about when 19 minutes after Trump was inaugurated, the Washington Post declared the IMPEACHMENT CAMPAIGN has STARTED? Was that when Trump divided America?
How about when Nancy Pelosi ripped up Trump's state of the union right in front of the world, showing complete disrespect for the President of the United States? Did that bring the country together and is THAT when Trump divided America?
How about when America had to endure 3 years and over 30 million dollars spent on trying to PROVE that Trump only won because of RUSSIAN COLLUSION and NOT because America voted him in. And 17 democrats did EVERYTHING in their power to PROVE that there was Russian Collusion. and came up with ZERO? Was THAT when Trump divided America?
I can't even start to go over the NEGATIVE PRESS he's received since his surprise win. Remember, the DONORS, the likes of Bloomberg, who gave 27 million, Tom Steyer who gave 17 million, George Soros who gave 9 million and MANY MORE that gave MULTI-MILLIONS to Hillary, wanted a return on their investment. Do you really think that donors give MILLIONS UPON MILLIONS just because they love Hillary? NO, these weren't campaign donations, they were INVESTMENTS into what HILLARY had promised them when she became President. They were so sure she would win and they would be SHOWERED with HUGE RETURNS, and when it didn't happen and they LOST all those millions, they went all out to TAKE TRUMP out of OFFICE by any means possible.
DID YOU KNOW that 90% of the Mainstream media and the corporations that own them, are owned by or run by BIG DEMOCRAT DONORS? You can verify all of that for yourselves. I did. Since the moment Trump won, even before he was inaugurated, the mainstream media's reporting was 92% negative on Trump, do you know why? It was those big donors that lost their dream of MILLIONS of dollars, on their returns that they were going to receive when Hillary was President and they weren't going to take that loss lightly. They needed to PUNISH TRUMP and those that VOTED HIM IN.
I've said this since the night he was elected. "There is NOTHING the left won't do to take down our President", our country and us, no low they won't go to, to get their power back", and sadly, we have seen this every single day since his election.
Let me ask you this. Have you ever listened to Trump or appreciated any accomplishment or campaign promises he's kept, have you ever gone to one of his rallies or have you just closed your mind to anything he does? Please ask yourselves the following questions, if you dare.
What has Joe Biden done for America for the last 47 years that he's held an office?
What did Joe Biden ever do for BLACKS when HE and Obama were in office?
What has Joe Biden ever done in his entire life to create a private-sector job?
What has Joe Biden done to help the American middle class worker?
Let me also ask you this. Why do you think there are so many people tearing down statues, our burning flag, beating up police officers, disrespecting our founders and hating our country? It comes straight from our SCHOOLS that have slowly been tearing down our history. If there is a teacher out there, please tell me the following:
Do you teach the truth that it was the DEMOCRATS that were the KKK?
That the GRAND LEADER of the KKK was Robert Byrd, who was elected to congress as a DEMOCRAT and served for decades, and that it was Hillary, Bill, and Obama that gave his EULOGY praising him?
That the DEMOCRATS fought the Civil war to KEEP SLAVERY? That the inner-city ghettoes were created by DEMOCRATS to keep control of slaves after they were freed?
That planned parenthood was founded in inner cities to CONTROL the BLACK POPULATION? Is any of this in your history books?
Let me ask you this as well: Can a student speak up when he/she disagrees with a teacher when they say that Trump is a horrible President or the electoral college has to be eliminated? I don't think so? Well, I know a student that actually happened to. When the teacher said it had to be eliminated because Hillary lost, and he stated the reason it should stay, she ripped him apart and gave the entire class a 5 hour test, and stated it was because he DARED to disagree with her. Is that happening in your schools?
I'm only asking questions. I'd like your answers.
President Trump and his entire family has been vilified, demeaned and disrespected, for one reason and one reason only. HE WON.
Have you noticed the DEMOCRATS only throw tantrums and OBJECT to everything he does and have NEVER ONCE gotten behind him to make America the best it can be? WHY? They can't afford to get behind him. he would WIN AGAIN, and they can't let that happen. if he wins again, the Democrat party will be destroyed and they know it.
Did you notice that the "CAGES" the left claimed that Trump built to put Illegal children in, WERE BUILT BY OBAMA for the very purpose of PUTTING ILLEGAL CHILDREN IN? Was THAT all over the news when Obama did it? The very same "CAGES". but the media was silent!
How about when Trump commuted Roger Stone's sentence, and was DEMONIZED 24/7 but NOT A WORD when Obama commuted 1,715 inmates, which included 330 that he granted on his last day in office. DID WE EVEN HEAR one WORD about it?
Were there reporters even reporting it. NO! Just look at the difference in the reporting. By the way, since Trump's been in office he's commuted 10 people. compare that to Obama. Is that reporting fair?
How about when Biden and Obama allowed the H1N1, the SWINE FLU, to INFECT MILLIONS of Americans before declaring it a health emergency. Was the press losing it's minds and calling it the OBAMA FLU AND BLAMING OBAMA and BIDEN for the spread? -- SILENCE!
Compare this to the NEGATIVE COVERAGE that Trump got when, he immediately halted travel from China. Then, in February, Nancy Pelosi went to Chinatown and said come on down, or when DeBlasio, in March, said ride the subways and go to Broadway. BUT those same people are blaming Trump for the spread of coronavirus.
A FINAL QUESTION:
What have the DEMOCRATS done to help make America the best, to get behind a president that works tirelessly to care about WE THE PEOPLE instead of using us as political pawns? What have the democrats done for people of color EXCEPT for GIVING ILLEGALS more rights than citizens and having us pay for it?
JUST imagine what this country could accomplish if the Democrats worked with him on the economy, the coronavirus, the inner cities where he's created opportunity zones, job training etc. When Trump tried to get school choice for inner-city students they ran Betsy Devos out!! The democrats running those inner city schools wanted no part of school choice. Have you ever wondered why it's cities that have been run, for decades, that have the MOST HOMELESS, the MOST CRIME, the most MURDERS, the worst INNER CITY schools, ARE ALL RUN BY DEMOCRATS?
If you haven't started asking yourselves those questions, maybe you should. As I said, my entire family used to be Democrats, but NOT ONE will ever vote for a Democrat again. They asked themselves the same questions and the answer was clear.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

^^^^^^ Bam, head shot^^^^^^^


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Well Mr. President can now test his injection of bleach theory.
I hope it works.
Hannity says this proves masks do not work. He pointed out that Trump pulled his mask out of his pocket during the debate when asked why he does not wear a mask and said he has worn a mask when he feels it is necessary.
Like an injection of bleach, a mask rolled up in your pocket does nothing.
Finally Trump said he likely caught the virus from either the police or the military because they love him so much and can not keep their hands off him.
Good luck with your recovery sir.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Well Mr. President can now test his injection of bleach theory.


 :eyeroll: The hate runs deep. I have always said the reason liberals are anti gun is because they think everyone hates as they do and would not be able to control themselves. Already some liberals have said they hope they both die. Dont celebrate yet Canuck.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> Good luck with your recovery sir.


Totally dripping with hatred.

Get over yourselves folks. Trump has so played this down that it was inevitable this would bite him.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Here is the worst of it...

It is now coming out that Hope Hicks tested positive early yesterday. Trump decided to carry out his plans for the day even though he should have been isolating due to his close contact with Hicks. He chose to put everyone at risk. What a considerate human being and such a stable genius. Apparently he was symptomatic during his days activities.

How do you think he feels today when the media say he is at increased risk due to the fact that he is clinically obese. Probably thinks it is "fake news".

I will say it again, I hope everyone in his circle stay safe and that he and the 1st lady recover fully.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Well Mr. President can now test his injection of bleach theory.
> I hope it works.


 We all know thats crazy and would never work, hence the real meaning of "I hope it works". Followed by the same "


> Good luck with your recovery sir.


" 
Both statement sounds like an insane guy standing at a cliff edge saying he is going to jump and that he can fly. The guy standing ten feet away with a smile on his face winks to others around and says good luck with that. Canuck you set the tone of your thoughts in the first statement.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

And Trump set the tone for the Republican response to the virus.
Don't confuse his stupidity with my lack of respect for the man he is.
Call it hatred if you wish.
*Watch and see what is coming out (at least on real news networks) about the timeline for testing of the White House staff. That will tell you all you need to know about the kind of man Trump is.*


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

sorry double post.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

We are listening to liberal comments and it tells us they have no more respect for adults thanvthe helpless babies they kill. We have listened to lie after lie for nearly four years now. What kind of a person takes seriouse some things like bleach injection? Those that hate enough to use anything against another person. The left has lost its soul.

Do you remember all the "we got him now" bombshells we read right here? Turned out to be all lies. How can you keep believing?


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> How can you keep believing?


It is simple Plainsman.

I make my own judgements based on what I see and hear.

I am not a sheep.

I refuse to toe any party line that does not make sense to me.

I am not afraid to stand up to peer pressure.

Again, I make my own judgements based on what I see and hear.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Plainsman,
I don't think you have facebook. This is also available on Twitter I think. You probably have that to follow Trumps tweetage. If you can not play the video I will try and give you another link. This goes a fair ways toward explaining Canada's feelings about the USA.




__ https://www.facebook.com/RonJamesComedy/posts/10158427497358859


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Trump has so played this down that it was inevitable this would bite him.


I wouldn't call it "down playing" so much. But definately a blase' about it. Or "hap hazard".

I agree it will be interesting about the "testing" or process of what will happen to the people around him....ie: did he spread it or will the testing and frequency of it increase 5 fold.

But to be honest people will jump on him about "masks" and what not. Remember since day 1 they have said masks don't protect you form getting it. It might help or protect others around you. IE: if what you said about Hicks is correct. SHE should have been wearing a mask to help possibly protect the others around her.

But it is interesting how this will all play out. Also to be honest... will possibly hurt him in votes. But we will just have to wait and see.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Hopefully his symptoms are not that serious but he is in the high risk group.
Maybe we could somehow all learn something from the year we are going through.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Correct about his age group and what not.

I am not sure when the next debate is scheduled.... but is he trying to "miss" it because of how horrible it went for everyone....ie: the interrupting and total chaos. Because 10-14 day lock down for him and the first lady.

My tinfoil hat is on extra tight today... LOL :thumb:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Nope dont have facebook. Also if your thinking for yourself how did you come to the same conclusion to the politicians who were lying on purpose.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

Reports this morning is all family members and close staff have tested negative. Don't know if it is true or not but a doctor on the news this morning said the virus has mutated into two types of virus, a low grade and high grade virus in most countries. His findings is in Europe there is a increase in the virus cases but lower numbers of death. He believes the President and first lady have the low grade virus which is why the normal symptoms were never present. Pelosi and Schumer are already turning this political.

EDIT:
I watched that stupid video that was posted above. Plainsman you don't have to have facebook to watch it, I don't have it. However if that is how people of Canada feel about the USA then we need a wall on the north boarder. What a stupid man. He even cut down people of faith. Only thing he said that was truthful is when he said "what do I know". Just another foreign Trump hater.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Resky said:


> Pelosi and Schumer are already turning this political.


I think Trump started it no?


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> Nope dont have facebook. Also if your thinking for yourself how did you come to the same conclusion to the politicians who were lying on purpose.


Not sure. Don't know.
Was it a logical conclusion?
Trumps lying was not on purpose? His lies just slipped out for no reason at all did they?


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

I just thought of something that Trump was saying a short while ago.

"Stop the testing. That is why there are so many cases".

Trump should not have been tested for the virus. Simple as that if you believe.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

They are still lying about Charlottesville. Wallace through insinuation and Biden directly in the debates. There were a lot of people at the protests in Charlottesville. Not all were communists, and not all were white supremesists. Trump was right when he said there were good people on both sides. He did not say there were good people on both radical sides. Why can't you liberals get that through your head? ------ because you don't want to know the truth, or you pretend you don't know the truth. Either way the truth is not in people who repeat this lie.



> Resky wrote:
> Pelosi and Schumer are already turning this political.
> 
> I think Trump started it no?


 You mean when he said come and party in China town. Oh wait that was Pelosi. The democrats in the beginning didn't like Trump taking it serious. I'm not sure if that's because they didn't take it serious, or they knew it was serious and if enough people died it would hurt Trump. So when he cut travel to China saving thousands of lives good old China Joe called him xenophobic.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

Canuck said:


> I just thought of something that Trump was saying a short while ago.
> "Stop the testing. That is why there are so many cases". Trump should not have been tested for the virus. Simple as that if you believe.


Bull Crap, just more out of context lies by Trump haters. The President did say if people want lower numbers of positive cases then the only way is to stop the testing. Here is what he really said that the haters like you are shouting out of context.



> Our testing is so much bigger and more advanced than any other country (we have done a great job on this!) that it shows more cases. Without testing, or weak testing, we would be showing almost no cases. Testing is a double edged sword - Makes us look bad, but good to have!!!"


Getting all your information from social media like that hack/quack in the video you posted really says a lot. Fortunately I don't think your statement that the hack/quacks comments is how Canadians feel about the USA.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Fortunately I don't think your statement that the hack/quacks comments is how Canadians feel about the USA.


 I think your right. If they were as nuts as some we need to redirect a few missiles. Not that I have seen the video yet. Resky your comment simply makes me think it wasn't good. You have the wrong heroes Canuck.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Okay Plainsman he said there were good people on both sides without meaning the sides that were being talked about. He meant the other sides that were not being discussed. He was right. They were wrong. Move on?

Trump will receive the best medical treatment in the world free of charge, unlike the vast majority of his citizens.

Does that make him a commie?

Can you imagine what Trump would be saying right now if it had been Biden who tested positive?

Resky that hack/quack was a comedian. You do not want to know what Canadians think of the USA. The PEWS Research Center just released a report on what Canada Thinks About the USA. Do you want the link? Hint 80+% of Canadians think the USA is severely messed up.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> we need to redirect a few missiles. Not that I have seen the video yet


Typical American response.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Can you imagine what Trump would be saying right now if it had been Biden who tested positive?


I am sure he would wish in a speedy recovery. Just like any other person that has gotten sick on the Democratic side. Look at his track record on that.

But I am sure the media would twist what he is saying.

BTW... on twitter you should see all the hate going towards Trump. Many wishing him death, many saying "how great would it be not to have to worry about Trump anymore"...ie: Wishing him harm. The WA POST deleted a tweet saying something like I just talked about. Yeah... Tollerent Left.... uke: uke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The lies are getting crazy it leaves you scratching your head asking yourself is anyone dumb enough to believe this. Now they are trying to tell us that ANTIFA isn't people it's an idea and the burning and looting is being done by white supremesists. You know what I think? I think that Trump is taking a chunk of the black vote this time so they keep trying to paint him racist.



> we need to redirect a few missiles. Not that I have seen the video yet
> 
> Typical American response.


 I think your hiding a lot of hate Canuck. Is it just Trump, or all of us? :huh: How about someone send me a link to that video Canuck likes.

My wife logged in so I could check that video out. Did you see he lied in the very first sentence? He said he didn't want to stick his nose in his neighbors business. That's exactly what he did and if he didn't he would have kept his ignorant mouth shut. As far as his disrespect for Christians ----- well one day he will know.



> Typical American response.


 I took a while to smoke that out. I wouldnt want to blow anyone up, or close the border. I have to many relatives in Canada for that. I simply wanted to know if it was only Trump you hate. We had a socialist on this site that headed to Canada to live. He led everone to believe he was a computer programmer. I wondered why he posted in the early morning, like 2:00am. Then I got a message from a fellow that told me, yes he works for Microsoft, but he is night security. Things are not always as they appear, but sooner or later it becomes clearer. Now I know what you think a typical American is like.

I was really anxious saying something as stupid as redirecting missils, but sometimes you have to oke: the bear to see if he is friendly. If I say something really stupid and your wondering if Im seriouse there is a high probability Im not.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

I am sorry you took such offense to my posting a comedian's rant about the American response to the Covid virus and your country's fear of anything that has a social benefit rather than rewarding the individual. You made the missile comment. What was I to say to that?

American's think Canadians are a bunch of inbred, banjo pickin" simpletons living in igloos.

To that I say "Ha ha ha ha ha, snicker, snicker, good one. Ha. You got me good."

That is the difference between us.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

You're the one that said "This goes a fair ways toward explaining Canada's feelings about the USA", which tells me you agree with the idiot. Americans, the majority of them, consider Canadians as great neighbors, proud people, and are thankful they are on one of our borders. I know you haven't a clue what Americans think and now I know you don't even know what the people in your own country think. I seriously doubt you speak for even 1% of your countrymen. Do you ever get anything right?


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Boy did I underestimate your abilities to take a joke, a poke and a little deprecation.

I do have a couple very good friends in ND. We pretty much go at each other just like this. Then we share a Moosehead and they tell us how good it is to be able to have a heated discussion and still be friends after. I guess that works because we are in person and the big Norwegians can see me wink.

Plus they don't feel very threatened I guess.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck...

You mean you all dont chug maple syrup at every meal? oke:

Or poutine is at every meal?? :thumb:

or Tim Horton's is better than christmas ham... :beer:

Have a great weekend and hope your hunting season goes great. I miss my trips I used to take up there chasing ducks and geese. But seems like I dont have the time anymore and lost my contacts...ie: they sold the land to relatives and things like that. Was always a blast having a cup of coffee and even a few happy hours with the land owners. :thumb:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> You made the missile comment. What was I to say to that?





> I was really anxious saying something as stupid as redirecting missils, but sometimes you have to oke: the bear to see if he is friendly. If I say something really stupid and your wondering if Im seriouse there is a high probability Im not.


You liked the video and I was trying to smoke out why. We are not that different than your buddies and when we hear something stupid were going to shovel a pile of crap that direction. Cheers. :rollin:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

You guys are just saying those nice things now to keep me around.

I am sorry if anything I said or pointed at was too much.

Serious situation now with the President. I hope he rides this out. I am watching TV (CNN :rollin: ) right now hoping Trump can walk to the helicopter taking him to Walter Reed.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

Well, if it was meant as a joke then yes it went right over my head. But you didn't present it as a joke when you said "This goes a fair ways toward explaining Canada's feelings about the USA". Had you of said something like here is what one of our comedians had to say about the subject, or something to that tune, then I might have not taken it the way I did. then you went on to ask if I wanted a link where a majority of Canadians felt pretty much the same way. I really doubt that but that just cemented your previous comment.

Problem with forums such as this is there is no face to face conversations where one can see something differently in a comment. How one presents their words here can only be consumed by what is typed. Maybe even a simile at the end of a comment would better convey a meaning. We all sometimes mess up our actual thoughts in typed words. Can't tell you how many times I've had to edit a post after realizing what I typed did not come across as to what I was actually trying to say.

Everyone have a nice weekend and keep our President and First Lady in your thoughts until they get out of this pickle they're in.

After thought: If the President were to not recover, then of course the Vice President would automatically take over. But what would happen to the election? Would it be put off or what? Can't have a real election with only one party represented. Just something that has been running around in my head all day. Yeah I know, there is a lot of room to run around up there so no wise cracks.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I see he just walked out smiling and waving. They say his only symptom is fatigue. Good gosh I have covid. :rollin: 
The most irritating thing is listening to the witch Pelosi say she is praying for the president. First if she does pray I doubt it's to God. Second if she does pray it's for his death. That woman is nothing if not evil. The attempted coup, errrr impeachment showed us who these people really are. THEY ALL KNEW he was innocent yet they made the attempt. Same with their attempt to destroy Cavanaugh and they will do it to every republican candidate for the supreme court. Why can't they be civilized?


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Chuck, today I got an email from our Neighborhood Watch (true story) letting everyone know there was an aggressive bull moose chasing people in the neighborhood and to be careful when we are "oot and aboot" (we don't even say that) but I have never had poutine.

Resky you are right I could have set up the video better as just comedy and that I found parts of it funny but truth be told I just about wet myself watching it I laughed so hard, especially the parts about social medicine, communism and the American independent spirit.

Plainsman, I have no place dissing your religious values and beliefs. I am all about to each his own. If one find peace and happiness in their beliefs that is all that matters to me. Unless you are an evangelist and see Trump as the Antichrist required to fulfill their prophecy for the end of the world. Then I have a few questions.

I hope Trump recovers quickly but I hope he feels the effects of the virus enough that he changes his tune about masks and distancing.

As an aside, a small Canadian company (**** he's bragging again) has invented a graphene silver nanoparticle ink that deactivates the covid virus on contact (99% effective). The ink is applied to paper masks like a dye. The ink stays viricidal for at least 35 days. The gov't is now testing the product for safety and efficacy and will likely be fast tracked through the process. More stuff like this...

https://investorintel.com/sectors/t...-line-clothing-protect-intends-kill-covid-19/


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

You cant trust anyone. Today Walter Reed leaked the GOAT's xrays.


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## bpul2113 (Apr 2, 2014)

To Canuck,

Simple question, are you really from Canada, if you are then STFU, as a CANUCK, you have no idea or say what happens in the USA, you live in fantasy land Canada......Canada, your PM is gay...your country is a really a province


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

There is no need for that kind of trash talk on here unless you're trying to get this thread locked. I think Sophie Trudeau and their three children would disagree with that last snide remark.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Bpul,

I checked the seven posts you have made on this forum since you joined on April Fools Day in 2014. Fitting day to join.
Your other posts are much like your post to me except your other post use ALL CAPS to yell belittling things to guys like browndog who never come here anymore. Nice of you to appear every now and then.

I am guessing that the stuff going down with the Covid virus striking down so many Republicans over the past week (well actually it was two weeks but they are hiding that little factoid) is really what is bothering you. I understand. You have been somewhat misled by the President and he has behaved recklessly. Does the Constitution not require him to protect you all?

And thanks for recognizing that I live in a peaceful and tolerant country. It is Providence. See what I did there?

Have a nice day. I sure am.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

I am a member in a couple other outdoor forums. They are very popular with 1000's of posts every day. They do not allow any discussion of "politics". I enjoy coming here and being free to spar with the "regulars" here. The few people who are here all the time. I say stuff every now and then that my gut tells me not to say but the anonymity of a keyboard, and ironically my familiarity with the "regulars", and before I know it my little voice says" aw go ahead, they can take".

A few days ago I posted that I had no say in your election. I said if you want me to shut up and flock off to just say so. I would like to stay here so maybe bopaul could just ignore me or something? Or he could join in. His gay comments do not bother me in the least. So what? I am predicting that someday Pete Buttigieg will be your President. Get used to it.

Why do I want to stay? Because you can not write the stuff that is going on around the White House. It is crazy to watch. So much division, so much distrust and, well, out and out BS...by both sides. Where will it lead? How will it end? Who was right?

Like the biggest soap opera the world has ever seen.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If we all ageed I would have no stimulation. Like your comment about the relublicans getting covid. I was. listening to a video of two democrats (dont rmember who they were) and the lady sahs to the guy before they go onstage " I suppose we need to put our mask on for the show". Maybe the republicans are being Hillaried. The day after Trump nominated Barrett someone sent poison to the whitehouse. Did someone invent a covid delivery technique.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> Did someone invent a covid delivery technique.


Yes! Donald J. Trump. Pull the wool over their eyes, ignore the experts and do whatever you can to endanger as many people as possible. oke: :bop: :bop: Just watch out for the backfires.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

Well hell Canuck, maybe I shouldn't have scolded the jackonky that slammed you. Seems you are on a role with the BS this morning. Listen to the experts you say, you mean like Fauci who has never treated a single patient with covid-19. You do know he is not a real medical doctor don't you. Or listen to Dr Tyson from EL Centro a real medical doctor, who has treated 1700 patients with hydroxychloroquine and hasn't lost a single patient from the virus. You might want to remove your head out of the sand and stop listening to CNN's quack doctors who are paid to say what CNN wants them to say on the air.

https://www.kusi.com/el-centro-doctor-u ... -patients/


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Resky I was going to thank you for sticking up for Canada's PM but I got sidetracked responding to bpul and I was also not sure you would want me to. Thanks that was decent of you.

As far as the experimental Covid drugs go Trump has now tried or used all of them apparently. He said he used hydroxychloroquine for a couple weeks back when this whole Covid thing was pretty new. According to his Doctors they have given him "an experimental 8 gram dose of Regeneron's polyclonal antibody cocktail and have started a two week treatment of Remdesiver". PreviouslyRemdesiver was tried as a treatment for Ebola without success, researchers began looking at the drug for SARS-CoV-2 because it had shown promise in the lab for treating SARS and MERS.

Clearly they are throwing everything they have at the President's condition. I hope that does not reflect how serious the situation is.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Clearly they are throwing everything they have at the President's condition. I hope that does not reflect how serious the situation is


Well it is the president of the USA... they will do everything in their power to get him well. Just like any hospital in Canada would do the same for Treadue (sp?). They would do anything and everything to get them well and out of the hospital.



> Chuck, today I got an email from our Neighborhood Watch (true story) letting everyone know there was an aggressive bull moose chasing people in the neighborhood and to be careful when we are "oot and aboot" (we don't even say that) but I have never had poutine.


WHAT... no poutine.... are you a true canadian.... oke: oke:

In my area there has been a "loose" cow in town. It escaped the butcher shop and has been roaming around the edge of town. It was caught on saturday on the golf course. :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Canuck said:


> > Did someone invent a covid delivery technique.
> 
> 
> Yes! Donald J. Trump. Pull the wool over their eyes, ignore the experts and do whatever you can to endanger as many people as possible. oke: :bop: :bop: Just watch out for the backfires.


What your willing to sacrifice credability feeding us that bs. Trump was ahead of everyone when he closed trsvel to China. Since then Biden has been telling us follow the science, and what shoukd be done. The hillariouse thing is Trump has done all those things at least a month before Biden' suggestions.

I seen a poll yesterday that 40% of liberals are happy Trump got the virus. Nice people ----------not.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

> WHAT... no poutine.... are you a true canadian.... oke: oke:


I have decided to wait until I someday get to Quebec and have the real thing.

They were saying that Trump might be the first patient who has had the full spectrum of the experimental drugs. Most got one or the other and in the case of the antibiotic cocktail (forget the name) only about 20 people (if I remember right) have had it ever.

What did you think of his "joyride" around the hospital? Did he put his protectors at increased risk. One Agent has already questioned the thinking behind such a stunt.

As well, it seems that the folks who should be getting contact traced due to their exposure in the Rose Garden are not getting contacted and told to self-isolate.

When I was a high school student a bull escaped from a horse trailer while the trucker was stopped for a bite to eat. That guy, a big horned Hereford bull did a lot of damage to fences and cars before a cop shot him. Bashed up my friends '57 Chevy that he had just polished up. Bull saw his reflection I think.

Plainsman, I disagree with you that Trump has undertaken everything one needs to do to help fight the Covid virus ever let alone before Biden. He needs to be a better role model. As he likes to say "Let's see what happens". It (the American response to the Covid Virus) could go either way.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I forgot to mention this. For the underinformed liberals who proudly announce they don't like FOX their new executive vice president is none other than Joe Bidens former chief of staff. The rich are trying to silence our voice. This election will decide if America remains America or if we join Russia and China in the next four years.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Here's a question. Not sure if you can answer but eve a ballpark figure would work.

Say you thought you had been infected with Covid. You waited until you had symptoms. Then got tested. Then got hospitalized and treated for a week before being released.

Ballpark, how much would that cost the medical system or in the case of the USA the patient?
$1,000? $10,000? $50,000? More?

I have no idea what it costs our medical system but where the patient pays the full bill you might have a rough idea.

I was treated for cancer and when I was released from the hospital I was given a copy of my medical file. Everything that had been done from surgeries, to chemo, radiation, medication, tests etc. etc. were all there. I sat down online and started searching costs for similar stuff. By the time I quit, I was far from estimating all the items listed but I was well into the $100,000's of dollars already and would have been busted.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have no idea Canuck. I have heard hospitals get an extra $3800 just to put someone on a ventilator. The stories are about as thick as snow flakes in a North Dakota blizzard.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

You can read about here. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospi ... ath-count/ Seems a hospital is paid an additional $13,000 if the death is ruled a covid-19 death and a additional $39,000 if they use a ventilator. Sure seems like a open invitation to fraud. This is the system set up in the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or CARES Act.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> You can read about here. https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospi ... ath-count/ Seems a hospital is paid an additional $13,000 if the death is ruled a covid-19 death and a additional $39,000 if they use a ventilator. Sure seems like a open invitation to fraud. This is the system set up in the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act, or CARES Act.


If you have heard me talk about this whole issue... I have said it was a problem when the goverment "monitized" the whole thing. Remember they shut down hospitals from doing "elective" type stuff. What "elective" stuff is straight MONEY MAKERS for hospitals. You know the hernia surgeries, tonsils taken out, etc. They are needed but are not the "life and death" type things...ie: people can go without and still function day to day. Remember... that was shut down for a couple months. Remember I posted about how the mayo clinic said it would lose something like 1 billion (or something like that) if they were shut down all year... ie: why they asked people to take pay cuts, lose hours, forloughed, etc. So when the CDC talked about "real" numbers we wont know until years down the road. :bop:

This is why our health insurance is so HIGH. Think about it people. Anyways... i dont need to go onto a rant. But a little tid bit of knowledge for people. About 1/3 of the US work force works with or around MEDICAL... Many don't see patients.... they work in HR, Tech/management systems, accounting, data entry, paper work with insurance companies, research, janitorial (hospitals need to be cleaned), renovation of buildings (think asbestos removal), etc...

Anyways... just things to think about with the whole Covid numbers, health insurance costs, health care costs, etc. It is all about the MONEY.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> and a additional $39,000 if they use a ventilator.


 There you go Resky. I'm packing for a little fun out west and sure as heck wasn't going to spend much time looking it up. I was only off by 90%. :laugh:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Anyway it is going to be rather expensive to get the whole treatment if you need it.

When I was doing chemo therapy dexamethasone was one of the drugs I received. I remember it well.

I watched Trump walk from the helicopter and remove his mask and wave at people from the balcony.
I have one thing to say based on my experience.That dude was jacked up. Seriously. He is still sick.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> He is still sick.


 Im sure he is, but things are looking up. The stock market took a hit when he went to the hospital, but when he went home it bounced right back.


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