# Wolf



## Stu_Loves_His_GSP (May 6, 2008)

I didnt know where to post this, but I wanted you all to know that my friend killed grey wolf in northwestern boxelder county utah. There is a reason our fore fathers tried to killem all.


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

Was it killing Livestock? because I wasn't aware of a season in Utah? There are ways to manage a species without exterminating them you know. Animals that are causing livestock damage should be removed but it doesn't mean you have to wipe them out.


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## wyominghuntfish (Mar 13, 2008)

*Edited* talking to the 2nd guy. For the 1st, that is really good. :sniper: :beer:


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## arch3614elk (May 8, 2008)

Is this true? Let me know


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## Stu_Loves_His_GSP (May 6, 2008)

Very sorry about the extremity slow response. We spend a lot of time here hunting coyotes. The wolf was killed thinking it was one. it was a very old wolf. It even had missing teeth. That is about the whole of it.


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## Stu_Loves_His_GSP (May 6, 2008)

I also want to reply on huntinND comment. These are my thoughts. I am not a rancher but the history of my family is. We are the new predictors there is no room for us and the wolf. Area and game is limited. The thought is the wolf kills the week. Yes they do. The week are the new born. Sometimes the sick, but mostly new born. Utah has no wolf management but I read since a couple were found in the Odgen utah river area, that management would have to be established east of I-15. This wolf was killed west of there. I dont know if the wolf will affect your area, but I have heard that Idaho has a failing elk population cause of the wolf. I would love to here your comments.


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Agreed with hunterND.


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## Stu_Loves_His_GSP (May 6, 2008)

huntingdude16 agreed with no answer.


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## smalls (Sep 9, 2003)

Stu, I hope you're 12 years old and you're making this up for some internet attention.

If not, please disassemble all of your firearms and bring them to the nearest recycling center as no one needs you representing sportsmen. Your reference to natural selection reminds me that some people just should not pass on their genetics. If you insist on continuing to own firearms, please practice your marskmanship (and game identification skills) on garbage rats at the local landfill.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

yep honesty gets you no where... hey this person was just being honest why give him hell for that? I'll apologize for the unwise! :lol:


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## born2kill (Mar 4, 2008)

there is a wolf north of glencoe that has been caught on trail cameras and has photos of its feet, don't know about you guys but if that thing walks by while deer hunting i think there will be some slugs in it.


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## born2kill (Mar 4, 2008)

sorry about that i meant footprints not feet.


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## goosehunternd (Mar 10, 2006)

> there is a wolf north of glencoe that has been caught on trail cameras and has photos of its feet, don't know about you guys but if that thing walks by while deer hunting i think there will be some slugs in it.


ATTN: ALL GAME WARDENS,

Not really a thing to put on a public forum IMO


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

S.S.S.


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Stu_Loves_His_GSP said:


> huntingdude16 agreed with no answer.


Uh, what? :-?

hunterND said...

"There are ways to manage a species without exterminating them you know."

I said:

"Agreed with hunterND."


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

Stu,

I guess my thoughts differ from yours. I do Animal Damage Control in North Dakota and even coyotes can have affects on livestock or wildlife if not properly controlled. If a wolf population is above the carrying capacity for a certain area and is having a direct affect on wildlife or livestock then I am 100% for a controlled hunting season. But this shooting any wolf on site BS is very thoughtless. If ranchers lose livestock to wolves they can shoot them themselves or call Wildlife Services to take care of problems, that is why that program exists. As far as deer and elk populations go, yes if the wolf population is out of control you will see a decrease in populations. Our only problem here is the anti hunters views. They file a lawsuite every time a state tries to manage there wolf population. It is a shame these people are so ignorant because there hurting the wolves more then helping them. So to summarize there is room for wolves if the population is properly managed. Tell me why there isn't?


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

I just wanted to add that areas like Utah are probably similar to North Dakota. There are a few wolves showing up but a population really isn't established. And if wolves start showing up more often then these states will look a little further into developing a management plan.


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## Ande8183 (Sep 18, 2005)

If you want to see what happens when you eradicate predators from an area, look at the elk population in Theodore Roosevelt National Park.

At one time there were Prairie Grizzlies and Wolves in ND, but since they were eradicated, the main population controls for big game species have been humans and disease.

It is plain and simple, you need a balance that includes predators.


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Maybe thats how we should control the park elk. Release a small pack of wolves into the park and keep them regulated. Heck, with a pack in the park maybe it would push some elk out of it.

This is a pretty touchy subject with some people. So I expect i'll get a couple people saying i'm a PETA-freak greenie....


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

That would work fine except for one thing, the wolves have to stay IN the park. Just look at Yellowstone wolves, released in the park and have been sightings in this part of the state.


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## GKBassplayer (Feb 19, 2008)

why is everyone making such a big deal about the wolves out west???? Only 1000 something wolves in yellowstone compared to the 3000 in northern Minnesota?


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

varmit b gone said:


> That would work fine except for one thing, the wolves have to stay IN the park. Just look at Yellowstone wolves, released in the park and have been sightings in this part of the state.


If they stray from the park and are being a nuisence(harrasing/killing livestock, pets) they can be shot on sight.


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## choc24/7 (Mar 22, 2008)

:eyeroll: did i read that right??? were having cotyote problems and shot a wolf cause you thought it was one (coyote) :idiot: i don't hunt 'embut would bet i could tell the difference between the two


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

I agree, An old adult wolf is probably 90-100 pounds, and it was mistaken for a 25 pound coyote. With your feelings about wolves I'm wondering if it was a mistake shooting it?


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## wolfeyes (Nov 2, 2005)

GKBassplayer said:


> why is everyone making such a big deal about the wolves out west???? Only 1000 something wolves in yellowstone compared to the 3000 in northern Minnesota?


 My thoughts exactly.And they damn sure have NOT wiped out the deer nor killed all the sheep and cattle in NMN.......jh


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## Doogie (Feb 23, 2007)

Stu, how did the chat with the Fish and Wildlife Service Warden this evening go?
there are just some things that shoulden't be talked about in a public place.

S.S.S

I hope the wolves your going to introduce in ND don't start eating pheasants or ducks or their days will be numbered then lol

I dont expect anyone from a place were they dont recreate and see the desimation to the deer and elk herds those cockroaches cause first hand have any clue about the hatred people out west or northern MN have for them. they are about 10 years to late on managing wolves.

huntingdude, they did the same thing in yellowstone, look at were we are now, thanks to the the endangered species act and greenie lawsuits. there should of been a managment clause in the wolf reintroduction from day one, now they are running around trying to clean up this mess


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> If you want to see what happens when you eradicate predators from an area, look at the elk population in Theodore Roosevelt National Park.


???????? was that an argument for or against wolf extermination?


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

huntingdude16 said:


> varmit b gone said:
> 
> 
> > That would work fine except for one thing, the wolves have to stay IN the park. Just look at Yellowstone wolves, released in the park and have been sightings in this part of the state.
> ...


You couldn't do that until just recentley here, after (some of) the damage was done.


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

> I dont expect anyone from a place were they dont recreate and see the desimation to the deer and elk herds those cockroaches cause first hand have any clue about the hatred people out west or northern MN have for them. they are about 10 years to late on managing wolves.


Pretty sure theres a post right before yours saying the deer have NOT suffered...



> huntingdude, they did the same thing in yellowstone, look at were we are now, thanks to the the endangered species act and greenie lawsuits. there should of been a managment clause in the wolf reintroduction from day one, now they are running around trying to clean up this mess


You don't need to tell me, I already know. Yes, that is why they would do it _right_ this time.

I still find it interesting how many call wolves hatful destroying devil-pocessed demons(basicly), because they've been killing 'our' game animals.

Pretty sure they were doing this many, many thousands of years before we arrived. Without wiping out the population. 
You think the wolves are hurting the elk? Look what WE did! We wiped out an entire sub-species. We exterminated the whole eastern population.
And now when we criticize the wolf for hurting some local populations?

That seems a _bit_ hypocritical. 

Let the flaming begin.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I know where there are two wolves in ND. They are doing just fine eating dead livestock from garbage pits and deer from the hiway ditches.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I'm moving this one to the Hot Topics. I was going to lock it but it appears there's some good discussion out of it so I'm keeping it going.


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## Stu_Loves_His_GSP (May 6, 2008)

Looks to me that huntinND is the most informed of all of us. I Liked your comments.
A couple of you need to read from the top, I did not nor was I at the shooting. I was shown pics. 
Next my options come from my grandfathers remarks, and my friends in Idaho and Montana where I bear hunt. Utah has seen very few Wolfs. Or if you watched the Alaska experiment woofs.
As I said at first seams to me huntinND seems to me to be the most informed.
I am concerned about livestock and understand that there is so pose to management there (I dont know), but if you sit in a rancher area coffee shop in upper Idaho or Montana you dont get the idea that that is what happens.
As an above 12 year old hunter and sportsman, I am concerned about the Elk population and the lowering numbers. As I said the areas are getting smaller.


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## Stu_Loves_His_GSP (May 6, 2008)

> Pretty sure they were doing this many, many thousands of years before we arrived. Without wiping out the population.


Fool16 all those 1000 years ago, game had the mountains and valleys and every else to go. Now game has a very small area.

buckseye said;


> I know where there are two wolves in ND. They are doing just fine eating dead livestock from garbage pits and deer from the hiway ditches.


This is a talk of hundreds or more.

Doogie; I like you. Prev not that way.



> huntinND
> PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject:
> I agree, An old adult wolf is probably 90-100 pounds, and it was mistaken for a 25 pound coyote. With your feelings about wolves I'm wondering if it was a mistake shooting it?


I will try to get a pic.



> I agree, An old adult wolf is probably 90-100 pounds, and it was mistaken for a 25 pound coyote. With your feelings about wolves I'm wondering if it was a mistake shooting it?


Your correct though.... out west here (in the desert west of the mountains) uncontrolled game gets shot. Coyotes run about 45 lbs here.



> GKBassplayer
> PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject:
> why is everyone making such a big deal about the wolves out west???? Only 1000 something wolves in yellowstone compared to the 3000 in northern Minnesota?


I have known my whole life about the wolfs in Minnesota I wonder why they never moved to the lower states like the Yellowstone wolfs. Must be the water.


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## wickedmfer (Nov 23, 2007)

Why would anyone want to introduce a non native predator into an ecosystem with no problems? 
We weren't having any problems with over browsing, or too many animals. Wolves aren't endangered. There are literally tens of thousands in Canada and the Northwest territories. Non native wolves have wiped out the native Timber wolf. They kill pretty much everything the come in contact with, and are now a threat to humans in parts of Idaho, and New Mexico. There are a ton of sites on the net to look up these issues. Try 
Saveourelk.com or some of the others.
Don't worry, the wolves will be in ND soon enough, and then you'll see first hand what where upset about.


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

http://www.wolf.org/wolves/index.asp

Gray wolves once existed throughout Montana, however persecution and, eventually, poisoning began shortly after European settlement, and by the late-1930s no wolves were left. In the early 1980s, wolves dispersed from Canada, making their way back into northwest Montana. Wolves also began moving north and east into Montana from Wyoming and Idaho after wolf reintroduction in those states in 1995 and 1996.



> Why would anyone want to introduce a non native predator into an ecosystem with no problems?


Gray Wolves were once native to Montana



> Non native wolves have wiped out the native Timber wolf


The Rocky Mountain wolf (Canis lupus occidentalis) is also sometimes called the Alaskan or Mackenzie Valley wolf. This subspecies inhabits parts of the western United States, much of western Canada, and Alaska, including Unimak Island in the Aleutians, and is the subspecies which was reintroduced into Yellowstone National Park (YNP) and central Idaho.

Timber wolves and gray wolves are the same thing. Gray or Timber Wolves have 5 subspecies, the wolves that were native in your area are the same subspecies that were reintroduced.



> Don't worry, the wolves will be in ND soon enough, and then you'll see first hand what where upset about.


I sure hope so because I'm sure our Game and Fish Agency will take proper management steps in order to make sure they don't get out of control and have disasterous affects like they are there.

If we could vertually wipe them out in the lower 48 then I'm pretty sure we could control the population in the future.
The site at the top is from the International Wolf Center and actually has some credible information.
I could write more but I'm already getting bored listening to myself, so I'm sure everyone else feels the same


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## Doogie (Feb 23, 2007)

huntinND said:


> I sure hope so because I'm sure our Game and Fish Agency will take proper management steps in order to make sure they don't get out of control and have disasterous affects like they are there.


sorry to rain on your wolf loving parade but other than in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem(Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming) and Alaska they are still protected under the Endangerd Species Act. And would be mangaged by the feds not the state


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Stu,



> Fool16 all those 1000 years ago, game had the mountains and valleys and every else to go. Now game has a very small area.


Uh, last I checked the Rocky Mountains is a pretty big area.


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

> sorry to rain on your wolf loving parade but other than in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem(Montana, Idaho, and Wyoming) and Alaska they are still protected under the Endangerd Species Act. And would be mangaged by the feds not the state


Wolves in the eastern half of North Dakota are already under state jurisdiction, West of HI 83 is for the Feds. Do some research


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

Minnesota, Wisconsin And Michigan (Great Lakes Population) are also under state jurisdiction since 07'. They included Eastern North Dakota in this group. That is why it is only the Eastern half of Nodak.


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## Doogie (Feb 23, 2007)

you still cant just go out and hunt or trap one in ND....

http://gf.nd.gov/multimedia/ndoutdoors/ ... -sides.pdf



> East of a line formed by the Missouri River up to the
> eastern end of Lake Sakakawea, and then east of U.S.
> Highway 83 to the Canadian border,wolves are now
> classified as a furbearer protected with a closed season by
> ...


wonder what the fine for shooting one is, bet its pretty close to the same fine you would get for shooting one under the Endangered Species Act, but I guess the money would go to the state not the feds.



> Since North Dakota doesn't have any resident wolf
> packs, nor enough suitable habitat to support a resident
> wolf population, the Game and Fish Department is not
> required to have a detailed, approved plan.


no wonder they did not need to wait 5 years like MN, MI, and WI there are no resident wolves in ND. They are still protected under the Endangered Species Act on the West side of the state.

Their management in ND seems pretty clear to me 


> Unless wolves become something more than occasional
> transients, it's not likely North Dakota would declare an
> open season, and the Game and Fish Department has no
> plans to encourage wolf packs to establish in the state.


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

Like I said originally being under state jurisdiction in the east half would make the process a lot easier if they became an issue. 
I never said anything about taking one illegally so I really don't see your point on that.
There management is pretty clear they don't need to worry about opening a season unless they become established. That seems pretty obvious. 
They don't have any plans to encourage them to become established, meaning they aren't going to release any wolves obviously. 
But they have no control over these "transient" animals becoming residents.

I find this funny that I became the wolf lover on this post since I do predator control for a living. I thought I had some good points if people read through the whole thing.
But this has turned out really dumb since the original post about somebody shooting a wolf illegally in utah, so I'm done here.
To each his own, peace out :beer:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> since I do predator control for a living


huntinND, how do I get a job like that? Does it pay well? I think that would be much more fun than my current job. Looking to branch out or hire any new people?


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## duckslyr (Nov 27, 2008)

i live in idaho and i have seen what the wolves have done to the elk and deer herds first hand and its not good. they are killing off the elk herds very fast around my area. the wolves they reintroduced are not even the same kind that used to be native to the area. around these parts we have general rule for wolf sightings SSS ( shoot, shovel and shut the [email protected]# up) we were so close to getting to hunt them legally and the damn tree hugging hippies screwed it all up. the game herds are already having a hard enough time with all the houses going up in the wintering ranges now they have to deal with this too.


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## DodgeLynn (Aug 28, 2008)

duckslyr said:


> i live in idaho and i have seen what the wolves have done to the elk and deer herds first hand and its not good. they are killing off the elk herds very fast around my area. the wolves they reintroduced are not even the same kind that used to be native to the area. around these parts we have general rule for wolf sightings SSS ( shoot, shovel and shut the [email protected]# up) we were so close to getting to hunt them legally and the damn tree hugging hippies screwed it all up. the game herds are already having a hard enough time with all the houses going up in the wintering ranges now they have to deal with this too.


Maybe consider that the development and population growth in the area is deminishing those same elk populations. Or, out of ignorance and arrogance of man, just solely blame one species for the distruction?


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## Doogie (Feb 23, 2007)

:eyeroll: did you not read his last sentance?? All that is being asked for is to manage these super predators. the only time they get managed is when wildlife services has to manage one :sniper: thats killing a ranchers livestock other than that the are left alone to rape and pillage the countrysides. Wildlife services wiped out a entire pack here this fall, noting left for them to eat but livestock. wonder how much longer before more packs start being wiped out by wildlife services??? hmmm wonder if theres any Wildlife services job openings around here :lol:


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## brittanypoint (Feb 15, 2009)

For all of you who think they are a great idea dont bother coming to wyoming or idaho or montana to enjoy a great elk hunt. These damn dogs have destroyed herds of all types of game. The yuppies excuse seems to be "they kill only the weak and the sick." That is the biggest pile of bs i have ever heard. These #@$%ing dogs kill for fun. I agree with the gentleman from idaho. All we want is some reasonable control before these dogs kill every moose and elk in the state. I live in wyoming. If you want to see the way these wolves work go sit at the elk refuge in Jackson hole and watch them. They kill and move on to the next victim. The decimation of a herd is uncalled for. The federal government needs to pull thier heads out of thier *** and stop listening to all the people who have an opinion outside of the three states most affected by these wonderful additions. This issue is a sore subject among the elk and moose hunters in Id, MT, adn Wyo. The introduction of wolves was a bad idea mainly because the elk hadnt seen a wolf in 75+ years. The herds were already struggling with the development of society. The wolf was just an addition we did not need. Our cow/calf ratios have gone down so far that it wont be long elk hunting will be gone for all of us. Most of us in the wolf state region simply want some management on these animals. Not necessarily extermination. Just some way to protect our game animals and way of life. I dont want to piss any one off, but do your research and youll find that this was a bad idea. People already complain that an elk liscense is too expensive for a nonresident in most states. These wolves keep going and its only going to go up. This is an issue that all hunters need to come together on and stop bickering over. We need control. Not Miss Yuppie Federale running our states.


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

I understand the concern some people have and I hate to compete with a wolf for an elk or moose. As far as the ranchers are concerned, screw 'em. I've got a pretty low opinion of most ranchers being a greedy bunch as it is. I couldn't care less if a wolf kills one of their precious cows.

Human (ranchers, the urban yuppies, and everyone in between) have done more damage to the herd populations than some wolf could ever do. You want to look at the problem, look in the mirror. Humans are nothing more than a parasite on the earth.

I want the wolf population to grow so I can hunt them legally. I've got a special spot in my game room for a full body mount of a big black alpha male.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

ruger1 said:


> I understand the concern some people have and I hate to compete with a wolf for an elk or moose. As far as the ranchers are concerned, screw 'em. I've got a pretty low opinion of most ranchers being a greedy bunch as it is. I couldn't care less if a wolf kills one of their precious cows.
> 
> Human (ranchers, the urban yuppies, and everyone in between) have done more damage to the herd populations than some wolf could ever do. You want to look at the problem, look in the mirror. Humans are nothing more than a parasite on the earth.
> 
> I want the wolf population to grow so I can hunt them legally. I've got a special spot in my game room for a full body mount of a big black alpha male.


The wolf has a more than big enough population to hunt so that is not the problem. I bet you get to hunt alot of places with that opinion of ranchers, i live in SD and that is the same as me think all blue platers over here shooting our pheasants are douche bags but most the time i dont beilieve that.


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

KurtR said:


> The wolf has a more than big enough population to hunt so that is not the problem. I bet you get to hunt alot of places with that opinion of ranchers, i live in SD and that is the same as me think all blue platers over here shooting our pheasants are douche bags but most the time i dont beilieve that.


I've got a real problem with ranches not allowing me access to land that I and others pay for becuase they've got it land locked in, all at the same time they lease it from the gov't at a discounted rate to overgraze the cows on. But that's a conversation for another thread. 8)

I get to hunt plenty, I'm a good BSer. Despite my opinion.


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## wyogoose (Feb 11, 2006)

> Humans are nothing more than a parasite on the earth.


First off I'd like to say that this is quite possibly the dumbest statement I've ever heard. If this is the case than why you don't you off yourself and rid the world of one parasite. Come on give me a break. As for the wolves, I think I have enough knowledge of them to speak my opinion. (unlike many who post who have never even seen one) I have lived in Wyoming my entire life and my my family still lives in the north central part of the state where the wolves are doing their magic. From 2000 to 2004 I worked with the USDA tracking and studying wolves and spent two weeks in the summer of '03 trapping wolves on the National elk refuge. Here is my first hand results. The wolves reintroduced to the greater yellowstone ecosystem are large Canadian wolves, not the wolves we had here before. The elk, moose and deer herds of the area had not had wolves as a predator in decades. When these new top predators were introduced they suddenly had a prey species that was unadapted to their style of hunting and killing and as a result suffered a huge loss in numbers. The wolves had found the killing so easy that they had come to kill and not eat simply for the ease of doing it. For those of you who say wolves only kill what they eat, ask a houndsman about them. They will hear the hounds baying and come whipe out the entire group. Last year alone I lost two 1500 dollar dogs to wolves. The wolf numbers also grew many times faster than the feds had said they would. The one pair per pack breeding philosophy is BS. Another factor is that the wolves were reintroduced to the greater yellowstone ecosystem. They are now stretching to the far ends of the state and surrounding states. Now for the individual that is badmouthing ranchers. I'll invite you to come out to wyoming and work on my family's ranch for one week. After you have woke up at 3am worked till 11 at night, doctored cows, broke out water holes, fed, rode through snow and wind on a horse, spent half the night checking for calves and all the other duties of a rancher, tell me again that you wouldnt be a little ticked if you lose a cow to an unmanaged, introduced predator. I know the argument coming is that they get reimbursed. Well the fact is you get reimbersed for market price of one cow. What you dont get money for is the cost of the feed, meds, and labor into that cow. Also, remember that that cow would have had 3-5 calves in her lifetime. No money for those either. Yes some ranchers may be greedy when it comes to hunting access but that is a different subject and I disagree with that. And to end this, if you want to [email protected]# at ranchers, eat a garden burger and shove it!

On a similar subject, here are some pictures of some Grizzlies that are "endangered" and only stay close to Yellowstone. These were taken last year on my trail camera at my black bear bait 150 miles from yellowstone. Three different grizz in one night.


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## brittanypoint (Feb 15, 2009)

You want the population to grow huh? I'd like to see the elk herds back that used to flood around Jackson. I agree that human factor has played a large role in the demise of the herds. However, the wolf population is large enough that the are considered predators here in Wyomng. If the federales ever get off our *** come on down and shoot one and have it mounted. As far as the ranchers, you have a low opinion due to a low understanding of a livelyhood that is age old. I grew up in cattle country and on a ranch. There are some rotten apples but most of them are good down home guys. No one has the right answer to the wolf question. Nature is greater than our understanding. However, a combination of opinions can lead to the right concept.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

ruger1 said:


> Humans are nothing more than a parasite on the earth.


I volunteer you to drink the "special" punch first than. Great post man, probably written from your Minneapolis highrise. :eyeroll:


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

barebackjack said:


> I volunteer you to drink the "special" punch first than. Great post man, probably written from your Minneapolis highrise. :eyeroll:


Not from a "high rise", but yeah you are right. I am on top of the socioeconomic food chain. Not sure what that has to do with my opinion, but ok.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

ruger1 said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > I volunteer you to drink the "special" punch first than. Great post man, probably written from your Minneapolis highrise. :eyeroll:
> ...


I read that as "not a clue about the 'real' world". All is well in your Walt Disney world.


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

barebackjack said:


> ruger1 said:
> 
> 
> > barebackjack said:
> ...


Actually I'm all to aware of the real world. That's partly how I've become so successful. But we are hijacking this thread, perhaps this should be settled via PMs if you need to continue.


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## goldfishmurderer (Jul 1, 2008)

My ideal opening weekend... :sniper:


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## brittanypoint (Feb 15, 2009)

here's a sign for ya mr successful!!!


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

Bang away boys. The fish and game doesn't have any laws that have any teeth anyhow. Nothing I can do about your poaching.


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## goldfishmurderer (Jul 1, 2008)

are you trying to say the US Fish and Wildlife Service? Or the Minnesota DNR? Or the North Dakota Game and Fish? What is fish and game? :withstupid:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

ruger1 said:


> I understand the concern some people have and I hate to compete with a wolf for an elk or moose. As far as the ranchers are concerned, screw 'em. I've got a pretty low opinion of most ranchers being a greedy bunch as it is. I couldn't care less if a wolf kills one of their precious cows.
> 
> Human (ranchers, the urban yuppies, and everyone in between) have done more damage to the herd populations than some wolf could ever do. You want to look at the problem, look in the mirror. Humans are nothing more than a parasite on the earth.
> 
> I want the wolf population to grow so I can hunt them legally. I've got a special spot in my game room for a full body mount of a big black alpha male.


This is a bizarre post.

Screw the ranchers huh :eyeroll: 
You must be a vegetarian. Ranching and livestock farms are a dying breed, no pun intended. Hogs are already pretty much a corporate farming venture, what do you think this does for hunting land? You won't be saying screw the ranchers when a pound of ground beef is $20.

Wolves do a hell of a lot of damage quickly. *You would be willing to sacrifice deer, elk, moose, coyote, and possibly other other types of hunting just to shoot a wolf? * My grandfather was checked by a warden in northern mn and while the warden was looking at his license they saw a wolf and the warden told my grandfather to shoot it, he did. The warden told him the wolves will destoy the population in northern mn before anyone will have time to react. I take the opinion of the game warden, he is obviously a person "in the know"

This is an issue that farmers, ranchers, and sportsmen need to get together on.


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## jonesy12 (Apr 1, 2008)

TK33 said:


> This is an issue that farmers, ranchers, and sportsmen need to get together on.


Well said :beer:


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

TK33 said:


> Screw the ranchers huh :eyeroll:
> You must be a vegetarian. Ranching and livestock farms are a dying breed, no pun intended. Hogs are already pretty much a corporate farming venture, what do you think this does for hunting land? *You won't be saying screw the ranchers when a pound of ground beef is $20. *
> 
> Wolves do a hell of a lot of damage quickly. You would be willing to sacrifice deer, elk, moose, coyote, and possibly other other types of hunting just to shoot a wolf? *My grandfather was checked by a warden in northern mn and while the warden was looking at his license they saw a wolf and the warden told my grandfather to shoot it, he did*. The warden told him the wolves will destoy the population in northern mn before anyone will have time to react. I take the opinion of the game warden, he is obviously a person "in the know"
> ...


Can't tell you the last time I bought beef. I shoot plenty of venison.

As for the wardens, let's not forget. They are law enforcement. Not biologists. They do a great job (most of the time) but I would have turned that CO in. Promoting illegal activity, whether or not he agrees with the laws is 100% against his job description. That's like a cop telling you to go ahead and beat that Mexican. "The cop told me illegal immigrants will destroy our economy."

I'm going to have to wave the BS flag on that CO. At our deer camp up near Orr, there are a lot of wolves and a lot more deer. We fill all our tags every year and see at least one wolf if not the pack.

Remember guys, wolves were here long before we were.


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## brittanypoint (Feb 15, 2009)

Very nice story. dont buy it but its nice


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## wyogoose (Feb 11, 2006)

> and see at least one wolf if not the pack.


Try seeing several packs. While chasing lions last year, I drove over to an area my dad used to take me when I was a kid. It was an elk wintering and calving ground. We used to go there every february to watch the huge herds of elk and again in may to see the babies. When I got there, i didn't see one elk other than the five dead cows laying unconsumed in the snow and the one spike bull laying in the snow with his hamstrings ripped out. His wounds were black from frostbite meaning it had been at least two days since he was attacked. He had to be shot by a "parasite" to be put out. The kills were all 3-5 days old and had only been fed on by ravens. The coyotes had not even come to them due to the wolves. We checked the cows and all aged out to be 3-5 years old and all were carrying calves, one with twins. All were healthy when killed, and none were fed on by a wolf. Kinda disapointing as I planned on taking my three year old daughter there later that week to see all the animals. Quit comparing the western wolves to the ones in Minnesota. It is two different books.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

ruger1 said:


> Remember guys, wolves were here long before we were.


You're absolutely right. But we're here now, and we're an apex predator. Been happening since the beginning of time, one species replaces another.

The fact remains, apex predators DO NOT co-exist well with man, or with ranching. You like to eat dont you? And the absolute WORST thing that can happen, is a large predator that is established, and has no fear of humans.

Look at yuppyville california. Coyotes (NOT a large predator by any means) are a perfect example here. Coyotes sneaking into backyards running off with pets, harrassing children, why? They are UNAFRAID of humans.
Now, how many coyotes sneak around in ND backyards? Not to many, they have a healthy fear of humans and AVOID us. Fast forward ten years without being able to hunt them, I wonder what it would be like?

As far as hunting wolves in the lower 48. I dont think the groups responsible for their introduction EVER planned on allowing hunting as a management tool. They got what they wanted (wolves) by lieing. Stating that hunting, in the future would be a viable management tool. It was never in the cards for them, and they duped alot of people into it. So im not holding my breath for that opportunity.


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## zordfish (Mar 4, 2009)

you know, if it was an accident, then thats one thing. because accidents happen. but i do think that there are other ways to take care of animals if they are killing livestock. and there are groups that study and document and protect wildlife, so if it isn't balanced, then someone isn't doing their job.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

brittanypoint said:


> Very nice story. dont buy it but its nice


Considering what my grandfather does for the church I don't think he'd lie to me.

There is one hell of a difference between beating a mexican and shooting a wolf. The game warden sees the damage wolves do on a daily basis, a biologist tries to get balance. Neither of them are always right, they do the best they can.

I didn't realize there was that much of a difference between western wolves and the wolves in northern mn. It doesn't matter, either way wolves are a threat and need to be managed and it really puzzles me that someone who eats a lot of venison thinks that there would be no repercussions to expanding their population. This gets even more bizaare to me when you factor in the disease issues in Northern MN.

If a rancher wants to kill every wolf in a ten mile radius I have no problem with that. That is their livelihood and they have every right to protect it. Sportsmen and farmers/ranchers need to get back on the same page and the attitudes of some people are continuing to strain the work the rest of us try to do. There are enough hurdles in ranching to begin with, we don't need to add more.

There has been no logical explanantion for the loss of the elk and what would happen to the other species that are in wolf territories. Outdoor Life had a good article on it a few months ago.


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## wyogoose (Feb 11, 2006)

> Sportsmen and farmers/ranchers need to get back on the same page and the attitudes of some people are continuing to strain the work the rest of us try to do.


Amen Sir :beer:

You know I brought up this wolf subject over a year or two ago and e damned if everyone on this furum didn't want to drive out here to Wyo and "manage a parasite" oke: The nice thing is it seems like more people are starting to come around. Time for the feds to come around now.


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