# Football and national anrhem



## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

So, let's start each game with an introduction of guests....wounded veterans. Ask one of them to request "Please stand to honor my fallen comrades", and play the national anthem.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I would like to see one of the big names stars that occasionally come out to sing the anthem make the statement " I will start to sing when everyone rises and not before " Then hold up the game until everyone does......

I would also like if the TV networks would not show footage of offenders. Take away their public forum.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Dakota.... BINGO! If they didn't show it. It would stop.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Face it the NFL has a least some control over what is being filmed. They often will not replay controversial calls. So it should be very easy for them to NOT film these guys. And for the ones that stay in the locker room till after the anthem.... may some custodian should lock them in there for a while so they miss part of the game.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Just a question......so we should ignore first amendment rights? Or is that only for us and not others.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Just a question......so we should ignore first amendment rights? Or is that only for us and not others.


I think they have every right to express themselves. Just not while at their job. The employee as rights to, and that includes not having employees destroy his or her business. Also, the first amendment does not guarantee no consequences. We have every right to turn off the television, or not buy tickets, if we think these people are acting like jerks. The reason owners are now saying they all have to stand is because they will not survive going down the path they are currently on. Every day more people turn on them. That's the consequences of reality. They have every right to keep it up, but the end consequence will be multi millionaire pampered brats that no longer have jobs. They can protest without crapping on the flag.

The first amendment also includes religious freedom. I wish the liberals would figure that out and stop trying to throw God out of our schools and other public places. I liked Trumps speech yesterday when he said this attack on Christians would be stopped cold dead in it's tracks now.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Just a question......so we should ignore first amendment rights? Or is that only for us and not others.


I know of no employer that allows employees to protest on the clock. And yes, an employer can restrict certain parts of your first amendment rights while you are on their time.

Page 23, Article 8 of the NFL rulebook says,
"Players are prohibited from wearing, displaying, or otherwise conveying personal messages either in writing or illustration...."

This protest is a personal message communicated by the individual players involved and is in direct violation of the NFL rules. What I don't understand is why the NFL is allowing the players to violate this rule when they are so strict about rule violations in other circumstances.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Page 23 is referring to wearing or putting on the helmet or uniform. Does not have anything to do with not standing. None of these players are protesting by putting material on their uniforms.

The last official word on the topic came from NFL Spokesman Brian McCarthy in August 2016, when Colin Kaepernick first "took a knee". McCarthy wrote in a statement that "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem."

Don't you think that if this was a rule that the NFL would have enforced it before it got out of hand. Would Kaepernick have given up salary every game last season by kneeling down?

I disagree with why they are doing it not how they are doing it.Anyway.....it should end and I think it probably will.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

They were a lot tougher on Tim Tebow. They would go after Carson Wentz also if it wasn't he was their best player. No one complains about them busting chops on Christians or evidently crapping on the flag is acceptable too. Then we wonder why society is going down the crapper.

I can't believe that people who are millionaires would complain about not being treated fair, or that they are not represented fairly when 70%+ are black on the football teams. This will backfire on them since fewer people have any respect for them.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Page 23 is referring to wearing or putting on the helmet or uniform. Does not have anything to do with not standing. None of these players are protesting by putting material on their uniforms.
> 
> The last official word on the topic came from NFL Spokesman Brian McCarthy in August 2016, when Colin Kaepernick first "took a knee". McCarthy wrote in a statement that "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the National Anthem."
> 
> ...


I disagree, it is not limited to wearing something on the helmet or uniform. And I say this based on the words "conveying personal messages". They are most assuredly conveying a personal message by illustration.

I think the NFL isn't doing anything about it out of political correctness, they don't want to piss off minority's and appear insensitive to liberals, so instead they choose to piss off the rest of us.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I think they will change their tune when it hits them in the pocketbook. Sad that it takes that and it is entirely the wrong reason to change their actions. It will happen. Read somewhere that in the last month the unfavorable rating for the nfl has skyrocketed. The change was in their most important demographic 30-50 year old males. They are the demographic with the most available income to spend on nfl Sunday ticket, games and team paraphernalia.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

huntin1 said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> > Page 23 is referring to wearing or putting on the helmet or uniform. Does not have anything to do with not standing. None of these players are protesting by putting material on their uniforms.
> ...


So what does the NFL say about the national anthem? Nothing at all in the rule book. The words "national anthem" are not mentioned once.
No matter if you or I like it or not...........don't you think if it was, they would have enforced it last year? :eyeroll:


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## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

I think of Bud Grant, Tom Landry.....anyone think their players would dishonor the flag?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken W....

In the rule book it states they have to be on the field during the anthem. That is one thing that Pittsburg would have gotten in trouble with then they stayed in the locker room.

I am like others on this. I have no problem with them expressing the first amendment rights. BUT again... do it on your own time. Just like others have stated.... If a factory worker wants to take a knee and give a moment of silence.... they better do it on their own time not on the clock! That is what is making me mad.

Like I mentioned earlier.... owners need to start to fine these guys for "team misconduct". Make it a $10,000 for first offense, $25,000 for second, $50,000 for third... etc. I will bet anyone $100 that it would stop many from kneeling and also nobody would do it all year if the fines kept increasing. Once/twice..... maybe even a third time. but once they were out $50,000+ it would stop. Also to make the owners look good to a certain extent.... say those fines will go towards a charity of the fined players choice..... ie: Kaprinick got fined and wanted the money to go towards BLM... fine. But the money isn't going to them. So the owners are not "pocketing" the money.... it is going to a cause.

EDIT:

People need to remember this happened in another pro sport. Basketball.... and the player started to get fined...

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-03-13/ ... abdul-rauf

Then it stopped. :bop:

Again the NFL doesn't have the rule like the NBA... but it could be considered "team misconduct".... Because NFL players get fined/suspended for interview statements, allegations (look at Elliot for the Cowboys), obscene gestures, Moss "mooning", etc.

From Wiki:



> Abdul-Rauf is perhaps best known for the controversy created when he refused to stand for "The Star-Spangled Banner" before games,[40] stating that the flag was a symbol of oppression and that the United States had a long history of tyranny.[41] He said that standing to the national anthem would, therefore, conflict with his Islamic beliefs. On March 12, 1996, the NBA suspended Abdul-Rauf for his refusal to stand, costing Abdul-Rauf $31,707 per missed game.[42] Two days later, he worked out a compromise with the league, whereby he would stand during the playing of the national anthem but could close his eyes and look downward. He usually silently recited Islamic prayer during this time for those who are suffering from all walks of life and ethnic backgrounds.[43]


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Just out today....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/wh ... id=DELLDHP



> What protests? Worried NFL TV networks ignore kneeling players in Week 6


Now if they really want it to go away...... Team owners need to fine them.

I will say it again.... I am all for them protesting and using their first amendment rights. But if an owner doesn't care about some of their fan base. Then they will have to face the blast back with what is happening. But if the owners want to nip it in the bud. Tell them they have to stand or get fined. They can also come to an agreement... ie: stand but if you want to link arms, give a "black power" fist in the air, etc. I don't have issue with that.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

What some people are missing is that freedom of speech does not come with freedom from consequences.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman....

You are correct. Many Professional Athlete's think that they are kind of "above" everything and can skate by with out consequences.

I am not just talking about football players but all sports... look at many who have been doing bad things... ie: interactions with police, battery, sexual assaults, assaults, DUI's, drugs, child supports issues, etc.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ch ... id=DELLDHP

Now if people really want to make a difference..... do what Chris Long did.....



> Chris Long of the Philadelphia Eagles donated his first six 2017 game checks to fund scholarships in his hometown of Charlottesville, Va. Now, he's giving his final 10 checks of the season to organizations that promote equal education.


We all know the saying... "Money talks and BS walks"..... or "put your money where your mouth is".... Chris Long just did both of these.

Good for you.... I am now a huge Eagles fan.... and of the player. :thumb:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Everyone has their own opinion.

A question......why is the national anthem played at sporting events? I can't think of pretty much anything else where it is played. Most of us know it from going to high school sporting events. What if it wasn't played there?

Now not that I am opposed to doing it......Just a what if.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Everyone has their own opinion.
> 
> A question......why is the national anthem played at sporting events? I can't think of pretty much anything else where it is played. Most of us know it from going to high school sporting events. What if it wasn't played there?
> 
> Now not that I am opposed to doing it......Just a what if.


I would rather they stopped playing the Anthem at sporting events. At least then we wouldn't have to watch a bunch of whiny millionaires protesting made up BS to make themselves feel better.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think not playing the national anthem is the goal of some who think the United States is the problem. If they tick off the fans enough they will see their salaries go down the tubes. Consequences.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I read an article yesterday or the day before that stated the national anthem was first introduced in baseball games and it was by mistake. It went along with the "seventh inning stretch" and a band in the 1900's or what ever played the national anthem and people stood attention. Then it became a tradition after that. Then some leagues made it mandatory to be played before games or rules about people standing (NBA).

Ken.... I think most people are not upset that people are "protesting". It is just that they are protesting "on the job". That is what is getting me. Because if average joe does a protest at their 9-5 job or if jane business owner does a protest while self employeed..... there are consequences. Fired, losing clients, etc. These players are not getting any consequences. PLUS.. IMHO they are doing nothing other than speaking hot air. Like I mentioned... donate money, time, effort towards these causes. Not just blow smoke because that is what 90% of them are doing.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

NFL commissioner has announced that the league will not force players to stand for the anthem. What the networks should do is show anything except the players during the playing of the anthem. Same as they do not show fans disrupting a game in progress. If they have no stage, they will stop.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken,

I agree with you 100%. Also think about how "sports" and "Sports networks" are trying to be more political. Just do what got you there. Same goes for announcers.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I would like to see public participation so low they had to cut every football players salary by 50%. Then let these low life scum deal with that.


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