# A Non Residents Perspective



## Zeboy (Aug 21, 2003)

I just returned from 5 days in your great state. I started reading this forum a few months ago in anticipation of another upland / waterfowl trip to ND. I'm from Michigan and this was my 8th visit since 91 (we started coming in 91 to hunt grouse and partridge). My previous trip was in 2001.

I was very concerned after reading the forum and with the NR regulation changes. Unfortunately I can now understand many of your concerns. Hunting has drastically changed in ND the past 12 years and not for the better. I certainly hope for everyones sake things get worked out . . . but I am afraid the oppotunities of the past are gone.

If anyone cares, here are a few observations . . .

-Why we come??? It certainly isn't about how many birds we kill. It is about the opportunities ND offers - Pheasants, Ducks, Geese, Grouse, Partridge are possibilities all in the same day. Wide open spaces and lots of access (boy is that changing). for example - In Michigan last year 150,000 hunters harvested 130,000 pheasants; in ND 79,000 hunters bagged 500,000. In Michigan many of those birds were planted and 99% came from posted private land you have no chance to get on.

License fees, Guides, & Plots??? We could afford guides if we wanted, but that's not our thing. To us the allure of ND is the opportunity to freelance. Doubling the Upland / Waterfowl license will not slow down the number of NR. We spent the extra $85 for our waterfowl license. Duck numbers were way down in the areas we normally hunt. We only duck hunted one morning. . . The two drake redheads, a greenhead and a breathtaking sunrise were worth the $85.
Plots is tooo successful. Prior to Plots it was harder to get on land, but atleast you had the land to yourself. Areas with concentrations of PLOTS land are being overrun with hunters and all land not in PLOTS in those areas are now posted.

Posted Land and hunting pressure?? Wow!!!! What a change. One of the big draws about freelance hunting in ND is the access to unposted land. We normally stay away from the real hot pheasant areas because access is easier. That has now changed, so much more land is posted. Even fields that would never hold a bird are posted. We asked to get on posted land 4 times and everytime we were allowed on. The problem is most of the time you have no way of even finding who the land owner is. I question if you don't have some land being posted not by the land owner, but by someone trying to keep it for themselves???? (hopefully i'm not giving anyone ideas) 10 -12 years ago, except on weekends, we would never see another hunter. This week everywhere we turned we saw both Resident and NR hunters. I'm not sure if the movement to limit NR from state lands the first 7 days is the reason (It's why we pushed our trip back a week).

ND Hospitality -Twice while in restaurants we were approached by residents inquiring about our hunting success. Both times we were invited to hunt their private land. We took one of the people up on the invite and had a good hunt the other was on our last night and we were done hunting for the trip. One of these people said, "I only started posting my land because everyone around me started posting theirs".

Freelance vs. Guides? I believe freelance hunters money is more evenly distibuted than those booking with G/O. Motels, restaurants, gas, convenience stores vs. money for full service guide fees. We like the opportunity to freelance but with the posted land issue and the pressure on available lands we would consider a guide in the future - just because of the access issue. The changes, especially with posted lands is playing into the hands of the G/O.

I apologize for the length. I needed to vent. I will probably be back at some point in the future though I don't have that burning desire like I normally do when I return from a trip. I'm sure some of you will tell me to never come back but I believe that is only a minority. I have many memories of great days in North Dakota and will always have a spot in my heart for your state. I only hope you can figure it out before it is too late.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Thank you for your observations on the changes in our state. The issues you are hitting on is what we are trying to preserve.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Zeboy, thanks for being honest. Nothing I found remotely offensive in your post other than a hint of being driven to outfitters by the current conditions.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but it is excessive competition that drives people to seek exclusivity, one way or another, some by using o/g's and some by buy/lease. When another round of exclusivity has taken hold, an unchecked number of hunters now compete for even less land, driving more of them to seek exclusivity. Excessive and unchecked demand creates the intolerable competition that fuels the fire of a self-perpetuating process.

With apparantly a limitless number of people wanting to hunt in ND, only a check on demand by limiting hunter numbers will stifle this process.

Z, would you rather come to ND two of three years and hunt "your way" or come three of three if that meant working through an outfitter to get some sane hunting?


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## Zeboy (Aug 21, 2003)

Dan - I would gladly take a restriction (1 every two or even three years) if it meant the access issue would get better. I don't know how you "turn back the clock" though and get people to unpost land.

I have read where your NR hunters have doubled or tripled the past 6 years. Obviously most of these new folks that duck hunt don't remember the drought years of the late 80's early 90's and those that primarily come for upland don't remember what the rains of 93 or the winter of 95 did to the upland birds - heck, your grouse and partridge have yet to fully recover from those weather events. It will be interesting to see what the fallout is from the next big weather event that hits ND???


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

Under the auspices of both a NR and a resident, I will second Z' comments. I just returned from a working vacation where I traveled from Bismarck to Minot, west to Stanley, south to New Town and then to the area I have hunted for over 20 years. I was shocked by the absolute drought conditions west of Highway 83. Most small and medium sized potholes were bone dry with only the salts remaining, and the larger wetlands were going dry. Only saw a few bunches of scattered geese and crane. On the way, I stopped in Coleharbor to get some snacks and talked to a local convenient storeowner. She said hunter numbers were running about ½ the amount from previous years. So I asked why she thought this was so, she answered in two simple words "fee hunting."

Since I had a daughter born last fall, I was not able to make it back. WOW, what a difference a year makes. Two of the largest farms in the County (both in excess of 5,000 acres) have sold out to a guide, and almost every piece of property is now posted.

Hunting pressure was extreme and we ran into more than our fair share of slobs. Why does hunting bring out the worst in people? Also, why are people so damned lazy and feel they don't have to put forth any effort? If anybody can provide some insight I would love to hear your thoughts! Also, hunting was extremely tough as birds were few and far between. Either all of the local birds have been harvested or the non-stop pressure has sent them packing to Canada or SD. Or could it be the numbers aren't even close to what the Feds advertised. One of the more memorable events out scouting was driving by 5 NR vehicles pulled over on a County road observing a flock of approximately 80 geese feeding in a barley field. Simply amazing. Towards the end of the week, most NRs had switched to upland hunting.

I think the Southern hunters are going to be in for a rude awakening.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

I have some friends from Illinois that have been hunting with an outfitter in the Kramer area, this year they found the name of one south of Towner. They paid a deposit and booked him and mentioned his name in a E-Mail to me. Anyway it was to late to warn them about his unsavory reputation. They hunted two days and said they were pulling out after a hunt Wednesday morning. He put them in a corn field with about a dozen old shells and couple of bigfoot decoys. Very basic, They did shoot three geese and two ducks but after driving 900 miles I would hope that at least the outfitter could be etical. I told them to call me in the after noon and I would help them out, missed the call and it was too bad as I had a good goose hunt lined up for them Thursday morning and a local rancher told me to bring them down for some mallards on his place. Anyway I convinced them to freelance from now on and I will do my best to help and steer them to some landowners that would be willing to give permission. We should try and encourage all the NR to do the same. Adrian Dokken


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

ND is the best, I took two great friends to western ND we hunted, fished and golfed the last 6 days. Oh yeah, we did drink a little beer because fo the dry conditions.

We never shot one duck and were not disappointed, we always adjust what we do to the weather. Pheasant hunting was fantastic, Fishing was the best and I never golfed better!

The people in the smalls towns are very appreciative of our visit and actually could not thank us enough times for coming out west. One guy in the convenience store apologized to us for the poor waterfowl hunting. What a great guy!

We go the western ND just for getting out to enjoy the great outdoors, what a great state! Thank you to all the small town folks of ND!


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## shawn114 (Aug 22, 2003)

I'll have to agree, people are very nice and appreciative. It's only my second year in ND and I am already making friends. I gave two landowners, a restaurant owner some of our wis cheese and they loved it. I also told them i'll be sending them some cranberries fresh off the marshes. They told me I could come out and hunt on their land next year. It's great to have such nice contacts.


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