# upland hunting



## JOJO

A friend of mine who is orginally from Michigan but now living in Boston, his dad, grandfather, myself are planning a trip to North Dakota next year. I am from MN and mainly a waterfowl hunter but also hunt upland birds. My friend has two pointing dogs that have only really hunted grouse. He would really like to get into a good mix of pheasants, sharptails, and huns in pretty much that order.

Can anyone suggust a good area to try? Not looking for anything too specific nor are we looking for any guides or outfitters. We were just going to pick a area, find a place to stay, get a plots map, try the public land and knock on some doors. We were looking at the Klum area, would that be a good starting point? Would father west be better? I did a internship a few years ago at Melroe and lived in Lisbon so am somewhat familar with that area.

Any help would go a long ways.


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## Bob Kellam

Generally
anything south of I-94 will be good to excelent for upland. The numbers are going to depend on the spring hatch in the central and northwest part of the state. If the hatch is good the hunting in these areas can be very good also.

Bob


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## Dick Monson

Yup, and east of the river, or NW 1/6th of ND, depending on how they survive the next 4 months.

Grouse are an under rated bird but it is the best season. They can be classy flushes and are true gentlemen, unlike the roosters.

Last 1/2 Sept is your best bet, the later you go, the wilder they are. The weather is good, fall colors beautiful if subdued, and rural folks are more friendly because they haven't been swamped yet with sportsmen.


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## JOJO

Thank you guys. Would closer to the river be a better choice for a mixed or is it pretty much the same?

Thank you for the help. I know my questions are a little frustrating...i.e. where can I find a lot of every kind of bird? But I figure I can find the ducks and geese, and I pretty sure I can find enough pheasants to keep us busy, but the sharptails and huns are new to me. Looking forward to hunting the big fields with some big running dogs.


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## Dick Monson

jo, I was talking upland. I don't even use ducks in the same sentance with Gods birds. People who can't hunt upland hunt ducks. :lol:


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## JOJO

Fair enough,

I like to upland hunt as well. Sometimes I just like being cold wet and miserable and waking up to head out to the field when I should be just going to bed.

Actaully I am getting a pointing lab in May and can't wait to see it work. In fact I can't wait for my two labs one of which will only be 6months old out hunt my buddies brittany and lywellian.


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## prairie hunter

JOJO U B DREAMIN

Just 1 in many ...
Two years ago I was sitting on the side of a slough with my nephews (all ND boys) and watched two Wisconsin hunters dump out of a truck and work the CRP beside us. (Now I won't jump on the fact that they should have found another place to go).

Two guys - four labs - one wildly bumped rooster - flies over my brother and down into the decoys it goes. 8)

They leave and I tell my nephews - watch this - one sweep with a real bird dog and six pheasants pointed - weight of two roosters heavy in the vest - lesson learned. Actually the boys were invited along, but were tooo tired to come with. Lesson two learned - trust your uncle. :wink:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Dick Monson said:


> I don't even use ducks in the same sentance with Gods birds. People who can't hunt upland hunt ducks. :lol:


I couldn't have said it better! :jammin:


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## drjongy

God's birds..........I like it!


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## goosehtr4life

I have to agree with Prarie....Labs are a good all around dog, but their noses do not compare to Brittany's/ German Short Hairs/ basically most pointing breeds. I have hunted upland for over 25 yrs and rarely if ever will a lab outhunt a pointer...


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

I think it is pretty obvious that true pointing breeds (i.e. gsp, ep, es, etc...) have better noses. It comes down to the type of hunting you do the most of and what type of cover you hunt the most.

There is no beating a lab/golden retriever/springer in a thick cattail slough.......but in more open areas nothing beats a pointing dog. Remmi does a nice job in cattails, but I lost track of her when she locks up. On the other hand, we never lose track of my dad's golden in the cattails.

On a side note, most people that hunt behind flushing dogs hunt too damn fast! They walk over birds because the keep pushing their dogs forward! A pointing dog will work it's way back and forth, front and back.


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## KEN W

You are dead on Remmi....which is why when I switched emphasis from ducks to pheasant and grouse 4-5 years ago,I bought a GWP.Hunts with his head up not down on the ground....which means he covers a lot of ground.


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## Rick Acker

Sorry Guys...for over all performance in the field...Nothing beats a good Lab...THis is my opinion only of course...I hunt the S.E. mainly in the cattails...I've hunted with pointing dogs and my little Abby out performs them 2 to 1...I do agree we hunt too fast Remmi...But I'm learning to have my dog double back when she gets birdy and doesn't flush...However, I kind of have the best of both worlds, because Abby will lock up and point 50% of the time...I just like the durablilty, and the over all desire to hunt of a lab...Good one's never quit...


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## jmmshadow

amen remi. i'd take my lab and springer over any pointer any day of the week. they might not be the best trained dogs. but as a team they're unstoppable.

oh and goosehtr4life, i'd put my springer's nose up against any pointer out there and i'm positive he'd hold his own against them.


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## BELLE &amp; ME

I have to chime in here, after hunting behind a springer for fifteen years I feel that I can safely say that they will not out hunt a lab. To say that a lab hunts to fast is incorrect, the handler/hunter is too fast. A well trained dog will eagerly go over the same piece of ground as many times as you want, if you take the time to stay put and let the dog work. This year I was fortunate enough to hunt the Oakes area with some friends. We did very well thanks to one of many friendly and generous land owners. We hunted everything from chopped corn to wind rows to sloughs. While all held birds we shot the majority from two paticular wind rows and one slough. First day we designated one man to take the lead since he had the most experienced dog, he let the dog set the pace, big mistake way to fast. Birds flushing every where with most being out of range. Next day we hunt the same areas with myself the lead man, I forced my dog to stay close and work slow, if she went to fast I brought her back and worked it again before I moved. You would not believe how many more birds we flushed the second day. Same three guys, same three labs, same kind of cover. One paticular slough was full of birds, first pass through produced zero flushes, the dogs were going crazy. I suggested that we go back in, move much more slowly allowing the dogs to get on the birds. Second pass produced five roosters out of the same ground we had just worked. I believe that the dog will work as fast or as slow as you do, if you put your head down and barrel through, so will the dog. You take your time and the dog will as well, if my dog cant see me, she will stop and wait or turn and come back. Take the time to slow down and a lab will out perform any dog out there.


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## ej4prmc

Want to hunt Sharpies come opening weekend Sept. 15+- The birds get wild after being shot at.
Want to hunt Pheasant come the first week NR are allowed to hunt
Huns are just a bird that you don't "target" they just jump up from cover, scare the hell out of ya, you shot 3 times and recover your heartbeat.


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## DJRooster

I never blame the dog I blame the owners. It really doesn't matter which breed of dog you have it depends on the experience and owner of the dog. You can't blame the breeds.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Remmi_&_I said:


> On a side note, most people that hunt behind flushing dogs hunt too damn fast! They walk over birds because the keep pushing their dogs forward!


Just to clarify my point, I said they PUSH their dogs forward too fast. :beer: I love it when I'm right! :wink:


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## g/o

12


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## Rick Acker

G/O You are on...You said cattails...Not CRP right? Actually, I have a feeling I could be in trouble with your dogs!


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## KEN W

Hunting tall cover like cattails...I would take a flusher.

Hunting CRP...I'll take my GWP.Now this is for pheasants.

Sharptails and Huns...my GWP will outhunt any flusher you can find.They are covey birds and to find them...a flusher must stay in gun range,which means walking down the field,then back again,then again etc until you hunt the whole field walking behind him.

I just let my GWP loose into the wind and let him go.He hunts the whole field in one pass since they are covey birds and usually don't run...he will point them up to 75-100 yds in front of him.No contest.Pointer wins hands down.


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## jmmshadow

hey ken, i'll agree with you that hunting sharptails is a lot better with pointers.

but after the first two weeks of pheasant hunting, i'd take a flusher over a pointer any day of the week. the birds get too wild and won't just hunker down. i've seen way too much, when the birds run and the pointers end up flushing too far ahead (they just don't want to hold up, unless the cover is thick enough). now i'm not saying you can't hunt them this pointers. i just think that your dog has to be a lot more disciplined at this time. either way it's a personal choice. point away or flush away, as long as the roosters are flying.


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## KEN W

I've owned both...both work a lot better than none at all...personal choice I guess.

But there's just something about watching a pointer slam into a solid point saying...."he's right here boss."


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

KEN W said:


> I've owned both...both work a lot better than none at all...personal choice I guess.
> 
> But there's just something about watching a pointer slam into a solid point saying...."he's right here boss."


Ken, you are right on with both statements! Personal choices, but when a pointer locks up..................pure heaven. ~ until I miss and cuss profusely!!!! :beer:


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## g/o

12


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## KEN W

G/O...you're right....When you get to be over 50 yrs. old....those cattails start to get a little imposing.That's why I like hunting with Dick....he loves getting into those cattails for me. k:

Of course late season when you flush 10 hens in a row...he kind of looks at me like...Why am I doing all this work with no retrieving???? :run:


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## g/o

12


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## drjongy

I think it's safe to say that most everyone would agree that a dog is critical when hunting upland. That being said, what kind of dog isn't nearly as important as having a dog, in my opinion. I believe that training is also more of a factor than breed. I never seem to have any trouble getting birds with my dog, and many other people could say the same thing with their breed.

Regardless...there is nothing better than watching a good dog work upland game--it is the main reason I hunt.


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## DJRooster

Thick and big! Love those cattail sloughs for late season roosters. I just love to go in there where no others dare!! And then once they are frozen so you don't break through the ice, wow!! And then if there is just a light dusting of snow so you can see fresh track... I am getting excited just thinking about it. With zero snow cover and no snow line, I don't care what those snow goose lovers say, things are looking good! And I know a guy who is liver and white who loves the same things that I love!!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

DJRooster said:


> Thick and big! Love those cattail sloughs for late season roosters. I just love to go in there where no others dare!! And then once they are frozen so you don't break through the ice, wow!! And then if there is just a light dusting of snow so you can see fresh track... I am getting excited just thinking about it. With zero snow cover and no snow line, I don't care what those snow goose lovers say, things are looking good! And I know a guy who is liver and white who loves the same things that I love!!


You are making my heart beat faster as I read !!!!


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## taddy1340

Let's keep this clean guys! :lol: Sounds like you're getting too hot and heavy. I too can't wait for the grouse and pheasants to fly this fall. It looks to be my last fall in ND before they transfer me again. [/i]


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## ej4prmc

I think he wanted info on hunting, NOT DOGS


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## Brad Anderson

Dogs are like people. There are smart ones and dumb ones. Training is the key.


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## prairie hunter

JOJO started it with:



> In fact I can't wait for my two labs one of which will only be 6months old out hunt my buddies brittany and lywellian.


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## tail chaser

Why is it I keep running into more and more dumb people but can't find that many dumb dogs?

TC


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## JOJO

Wow look what I started. Truth be known I just like hunting behind any well trained dog. I love the intensity of a pointer locked up and I love to hear my lab crashing through the thick stuff hot on the trail of a big rooster.

By the way. I think we are still leaning towards Kulm. Any insite on the area good, bad or otherwise?

One more question does anyone hunt the national grasslands? Either the sheyenne or little missouri? Just looking for future refrenece.


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## Burly1

JOJO, If you're bird hunting, the Sheyenne grasslands will be the place for you. The Little Missouri has some sharps, a lot in some areas, but roosters would be few and far between. Having said that, our pheasant range has been expanding in the West and I have been surprised quite a bit while deer hunting during the past several seasons. If you're going to freelance, an effort to make contacts before your actual hunt will help a lot with gaining access to private land. By hunting later in the season, it will always be easier to gain landowner consent. Good fortune, Burl


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## Dick Monson

I hadn't hunted Kulm since the high water came but before the flood it was fair pheasant country. Burly is right about getting surprised on the NG out west. Some years back we hunted turkeys out there and bumped a few roosters in unlikely places. You can see grouse and pheasants on the same rise. If there was cropland-stubble next to the bullberrys it was pretty good but man are there porkys! The big ones. Keep a strong forceps handy. For prickly pear too.


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## pointer99

i want to hunt with this dog....

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/smartdog.html


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## prairie hunter

JOJO You can PM me and I can give you some ideas in the LMNG.

I have hunted both the Sheyenne and Little Mo National Grasslands.

Nothing better than camping out in the LMNG. Cool nights, coyotes howling ... stars in the sky.

Sheyenne
The Sheyenne NG is located in SE ND. It is great whitetail country. Some sharptails and a stable population of prairie chickens. Pheasants are not too thick unless you find areas where the National Grasslands border private land.

Issue: Much of the Sheyenne NG is closed to sharptail grouse hunting to protect the Prairie Chickens and Prairie Chicken hunting licenses are only available to residents via lottery.

That said, better places to hunt in SE ND than the Sheyenne National Grasslands.

Little MO
The Little Mo is a great place to hunt sharptails. Lot's of birds if you know where to look. It is a huge area and not all areas are equal. Plenty of pheasants if you know where to look.

But ...

Few issues regarding hunting dogs in the Little Mo.

1) When it is hot the birds are in the Buffalo Berry bushes - really do not need a dog. Can be over 80 in September - heat is very tough on dogs too. Dry area with little water in the field - you must carry fresh water with you!

2) When it is cool the birds are in the grass. This is short grass prairie and in many years the grass is not tall enough to hide birds, thus they do not hold tight - and more often than not flush wildly.

3) Prickly pear cactus. This stuff grows everywhere in the Little Mo. Dogs should where boots or you may have problems

4) Snakes. I have not seen rattlesnakes everytime I have hunted the Little MO., but I have seen enough that I prefer not to run dogs there. What I have noticed is the rattlers are most likely "migrating" towards their dens. If you hear / see one - more likely you will see or hear many more. Many years ago - we were hunting a sage flat when we stumbled into a bunch of rattlesnakes. I think we counted over a dozen and shot a couple for the tails. I picked up my dog and got him to the truck - he did not hunt again in that area.


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## JOJO

Well I would like to thank everyone for their help and advise. We have decieded to hunt the Dickinson area for 3-4 days. I think we are going to try and hunt the grasslands, and whatever other public land we can find, then try knocking on some doors. Then we are going to head to somewhere around Turtle Lake, Washburn area for another 3-4 days. Then the rest of the time will be spent in Kulm.

This should give us a good mix of the hills, and prarie potholes. At least I hope it does. Now we just need it quit raining so the birds have some nesting success.

Once again I would like to thank everyone for thier help. If any one has any info on hunting those areas, and in particular the dickinson, national grassland areas please keep the help coming.


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## mburgess

Snakes are a real danger in the Little Missouri Grasslands. Hunted there a couple of years ago my dog got bit and it was ugly. Lucky to have survived. I read in the tribune that there is a vaccine to give to dogs now for western diamond back rattlers. The first dose has to be given in two different shots 30 days apart, and after that they can get it annually. I'm going to check into this, as it really is fun out west but after going through what happened last time the risk isn't worth the reward for a couple of grouse. I stick around the rolling hills/pasture land around bean fields for grouse now days.


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## DJRooster

Your dog might run into a porcupine out west so you should have a plan of attack for that!


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## englishpointer

I checked with my vet on the shot for snake bites and they didnt know of any that is out there. SO if you do find that shot please let me know , as I do hunt SW ND and know all about "snattlerakes" born in that part of the world and still enjoy being there.


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## Dan Bueide

M, if you learn anything more about the vaccine, please post up. A good friend lost a springer to a rattler bite, while swimming in the Missouri River no less. I looked into carrying the anti-venom once, but I recall there was some impediment, either legal or practical.

I've hunted out west a bunch, from early September through early January. We've seen snakes once, when we ran into 2 within 10-15 minutes of one another one September. A little jumpy already, later that trip I didn't notice that I had stepped on a weird shaped branch, and it rolled and "bit" me in the calf - I about jumped out of my skin. After that, even the buzzing sound of a "flushing" grasshopper was unnerving.

DJ is spot on about the porkies - lots of them out there. I have a friend from Idaho who I don't think has made a trip without pulling quills. If there is a porky in the township, that dog will find it - never learned its lesson. It's amazing where and how deep those quills can end up.

The grasslands are a very neat place, especially if you like long hikes, but they have some unique dangers.


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## JOJO

we checked into the anti-vemon stuff and it was like $600 you had to know what kind of snake it was and you had to keep it chilled


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## boston

I found this information online on a Vetrinary Forum, and, unfortunately, this is the same thing each vet I spoke to said. Still, I only found that about 1 out of 10 vets even know this vaccine exists:

Canine Rattlesnake Vaccine

The canine rattlesnake vaccine comprises venom components from Crotalus atrox (western diamondback). Although a rattlesnake vaccine may be potentially useful for dogs that frequently encounter rattlesnakes, currently we are unable to recommend this vaccine because of insufficient information regarding the efficacy of the vaccine in dogs. Dogs develop neutralizing antibody titers to C. atrox venom, and may also develop antibody titers to components of other rattlesnake venoms, but research in this area is ongoing. Owners of vaccinated dogs must still seek veterinary care immediately in the event of a bite, because 1) the type of snake is often unknown; 2) antibody titers may be overwhelmed in the face of severe envenomation, and 3) an individual dog may lack sufficient protection depending on its response to the vaccine and the time elapsed since vaccination. According to the manufacturer, to date, rare vaccinated dogs have died following a bite when there were substantial delays (12-24 hours) in seeking treatment. Recommendations for booster vaccination are still under development, but it appears that adequate titers do not persist beyond one year after vaccination. Adverse reactions appear to be low and consistent with those resulting from vaccination with other products available on the market. The product licence is currently conditional as efficacy and potency have not been fully demonstrated. Based on existing evidence, the UC Davis VMTH does not currently recommend routine vaccination of dogs for rattlesnake envenomation, and the vaccine is not stocked by our pharmacy.


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## Burly1

When mentioning the vaccine, Mburgess spoke of Western Diamondback rattlesnakes. Please correct me if I am wrong, but is the Prairie rattler not the predominant rattlesnake species in ND? Do the vaccine's have a "universal" quality or would they be venom-specific? I have run across a large number of rattlers in Western ND while bowhunting. I used to think I attracted them, because I walked across so many, and they were all Prairie rattlers. To adress the concern about encountering snakes during October, I know that it can and has happened, but if we have had a week of nights in the 40's, most of the snakes will have denned up. For the most part, pheasants are pretty rare in denning areas, which tend to be located on steep, rocky, West or Southwest facing slopes. But snakes are certainly where and when you find them, so use caution and carry the numbers and address' of a couple of local veterinarians with you in case of an emergency. The hair is now standing up on the back of my neck, Burl


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## ND decoy

If I remember right a vet told me one time that the anti venom for rattle snake bite is only good for about 2 weeks and them has to be thrown away and reordered and it is not that cheap.

A hunting partner of mine had his dog bit lst year and they called all over the place and the only vet in western ND that had it was in Hebron.


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## 4 Paws

I had a dog bit last year in Nebraska while hunting Sharps/Chickens. The vaccine you guys are looking for is made by Redrock Biologics out of California. The vaccine is effective to varying degrees according to the company. The only rattlers that it does not work on is the Mojave Green.

Best, Paws


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