# Mott - Pheasants



## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

on 790 John Emer talking about the "pheasant debackle" the GnF regulations have done.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

this guy lives in Mott during the Fall, he's from MN....arranges hunts for "friends" and he's not a guide.....ties up LOTS of land for his friends through BIG donations to get around the guide regulations.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

OK...Ed...the governor likes to pick his nose?????

Do you suppose Ed is looking at running for Governor next year????


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

This is also happening in north and north central ND regarding waterfowl hunting. I posted a thread before titled "leasing I am not leasing land."

Several big time G/Os are "working" with landowners to post land without payment. This helps the landowner by not having to worry about who is on the land. The G/O will monitor this for them. Payment is a couple birds or a token flashlight. Who are these G/Os trying to fool?

A good friend of my brother was approached about securing his 3600 acres via this route. He passed this year.

Anyway this scenario allows the G/O to tie up a lot of land, but will lead to misleading data on the G&F survey at the end of the year.

uke:

For every rule or regulation stamped into law there are multiple routes developed to get around them. Many individuals relish the opportunity.


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## NDJ (Jun 11, 2002)

In listening to this guy, I found it interesting he would not admit the pheasant's spread across state or the amount of posted/fee hunting land was a factor, or the snow on the ground...The only reason the motel in Mott is not full right now is because the PLOTS restriction and the new small game license, the only way to solve it would be to have a special session to remove the current legislation.

He did make one good point, keep the goverment out of it and let the G&F do their job.

He also stated $$$ is no object to him on hunting...did like the caller who said he would not pay to hunt when he can hunt for free....


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## scissorbill (Sep 14, 2003)

I heard this guyand thought he sounded like a thinnly veiled guide and a bit of a jerk. Whats a guy from mpls so damned concerned about people not being in Mott? Doesnt take much to figure this out.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Don't know what he is complaining about.He has bought 4 licenses.As 1 caller said...in SD he would be limited to 1 license of 10 days.Which means he would have been home instead of out here complaining.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

The SD 10-day, one-license deal is for waterfowl. They, however, cap such licenses at 4,000 and the 10 days is consecutive.

Upland in SD is substantially similar to ND's new program. Can buy multiple licenses, but I believe SD's "res-only" is for the first week, all ground, as opposed to just state-contolled land. SD's upland season is also 2-3 weeks shorter I believe.

In the grand scheme, for the kind of quality wingshooting ND is capable of producing, as compared to any other world-class species chasing, ND is still one hell of a bargain and not unduly restricted. '03 NR waterfowl and upland license sales do not support an arguement to the contrary.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

MFPheas posted on another topic about a small handfull of people trying to convolute the game law of Montana for their benefit. This John Emer sounded exactly the same. SW ND has the most pressure and fewest PLOTS of any good area. The reason is $$$. He sounded like an endgate outfitter that slips the farmer cash for a kickback and or to hunt free. His anaolgy of paying for golf is way off base, as the game animals are held in public trust. Logic and reason will not prevail with these people, nor the game laws nor the state constituation. And will not prevail with the legislature either unless you get involved as an individual.

All the more reason for sportsmen to band together on the ETREE at
www.nodakoutdoors.com/signup.php --boys we are going to need all the organizational skills we can muster.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

No Dan.

It is more similar to ND than you think. 3 day resident season on public land only. But note that they also opened the Federal WPAs to hunting resident only - unlike ND.

From the SDG&F web site:

3-Day Resident Pheasant Season

Season Dates: October 11-13, 2003
Open Unit: Statewide, on public hunting lands only, including GFP land that is owned, managed or leased by the department and is normally open to public hunting. Also, Walk-In Areas that the department leases and manages, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Waterfowl Production Areas, U.S. Army Corps of Engineers land adjacent to the Missouri River, U.S. Forest Service National Grasslands, and U.S. Bureau of Reclamation land will be open to public hunting. Only those public road rights-of-way adjacent to public hunting areas open to hunting will be open to hunting for this early 3-day season.
Daily Limit: 3 rooster pheasants, with a possession limit of 9 taken according to the daily limit.
Shooting Hours: Noon to sunset (CDT).


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

PH, thanks for clarifying. The SDG&F description is a little confusing and sounds like it may have been a little more different than ND. Was 11-13 open to everyone on private ground, or was res-on-public-ground the only pheasant hunting going on statewide those 3 days? Did the general opener start on 14 or 18?


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Only residents are allowed to hunt during the resident season, and they're only allowed to hunt on public land those 3 days. Even if a resident farmer wanted to hunt his own land it would technically be illegal during those 3 days.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Thanks Matt. Wow, talk about a recipe for working over the walk-in stuff (their PLOTS). Can you imagine the screaming if 1223 had done something like that where not only did res's get exclusive crack at the "public" stuff but a concentrated crack to boot, and there was no nr option? I think SD should rename itself to Teflon.


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

You all got it now. In SD that three day weekend is reserved for Residents only on all public land. All private land is closed, except of course private shooting preserves. The only other quirk that is missing is that they also have a three day youth season, which is held the same weekend, that DOES open the private land but only to youths under the age of 16(age may be incorrect). So, you can hunt with your son on WIA's and WPA's down there, but if you want to go home and hunt your own land, you have to put the gun away and just work the dog. Be fun to be a warden there huh???? :roll:

I called in and called him out on something he said. He said that they did not care if they had to pay to play, they just did not want to be restricted from doing so. When I asked how he had been restricted, he went into how much it cost. So what he was really saying was he did not mind paying for his room, or the land, shells or gas, he just did not want to pay a reasonable and comparable fee of 10$ a day for the right to get on the golf course. To me that is the way the golf analogy should work.

The most profound thing that I got out of it was the called that said it was probably just a matter of going to far to fast. Well, a biennial legislature probably demands that, and I agree with him that in a year the NR stuff will just fade off. Anyway, I thought Ed was fairly objective, if maybe a little to willing to accept the stories about how bad it is out there. I would liek to see him make some phone calls to Oakes or Forman and see how there business's feel. Maybe a little competition can do some good, where little else can.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

You know if you think about the SD regs for residents only on public land only you can look at it a few ways. Yea, residents get first crack at their public land which is great and as it should be, but it also plays into the G&O hand in that there won't be many birds left on the public lands once the general season starts. Not much use in a nr coming out to hunt the general season on public land at that point. All pay to hunt then!!


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

What the guy forgot to mention, ( I tried to get in on the show), was that he fronts for several dozen MN sportsmen that want to be able to hunt the area the entire season out in Mott. He has one thing in mind.....maintaining the highest quality hunting for himself and his "friends" at the lowest possible cost. I agree with the fact that he kept saying that paying to play was ok but he also kept coming back to the fact that he had already paid $350 + dollars in licenses. I've contacted the Gnf in the past about this abuse of the system and they say they'll look into it. I think the fact is that the gnf doesn't want to get in the middle of taking away the thousands of dollars in donations this group makes to the small towns in the area for there own benefit, I don't think I'd like to touch it either.

If he REALLY wants to get the hotels, restaurants, gas stations, bars full every weekend then he needs to spend more time openng up quality land to the average joe at a "fair price". You see I mentioned a fair price...The average MN NR and his kids AND the average resident and his kids, I think, might be happy to travel to western ND for a great pheasant hunt if the price was right. I've contacted various guides and outfitters in the area about opening the land to harvest the extra roosters say ffrom second week in Dec. to the end of the season to no avail. They say it wuldn't be fair to the higher paying clientel. Come on Mott, Hettinger, Regent, and the others.....if you want us to travel and spend some money...get the landowners to open up some land a cheaper price than the 250.00 per day per gun that many of the average guys keep hearing about. What would be better......One Dad + 2 boys x25.00/day/each vs. One Dad + 2 boys x 250.00/day/each. I know "late" in the season how I would put pressure on the landowners to help small town america. If you want us there, make it economical for us to get there. There is virtually no one there late in the season anyway.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Again guys.

It was the fact that ND was f***ing with their kids potential to have success.

Many of the complaints originating from Minnesota were based on the fact that ND state land was off limits to nonresidents during the MEA vacation days (TH and F) and that even the state land in non pheasant areas where included.

The number of complaints were compounded because of new zones and a doubling of license fees. It was a combination of variables.

In a MN outdoor paper - it was the MN waterfowlers that complained the loudest - not the pheasant hunters. (not a statistical study - I know).

The arguement that it was only seven days out of a 90+ day season is somewhat lame since most NRs travel to ND in October - this is especially true when kids are in tow.

Much of November is deer season (both in ND and MN). Thankgiving through early January is possible - but it can easily be subzero for weeks and/or heavy snow blocks roads and drives birds into ranchers feed lots (at least in the west).

If you want these kids to love hunting then you want younger hunters to hunt pheasants not fight bitter cold and/or deep snow.

If there was just a three day season for ND residents only - not sure many would complain unless they are the NR leasing / NR landowner types described at the beginning of this post.

I did pheasant hunt in SE ND on that Thursday and while PLOT land was off limits, my son and I did fine on Fed land and a little private land too. Of course this is where I grew up hunting and pretty much knew where to go. 8)


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

PH...that won't be a problem next year.The teachers Conv. is 2 weeks after the opening weekend.So all those unhappy complainers won't be able to ***** next year.So all those young hunters can hunt PLOTS to their hearts content next fall.

Pheasant opener 2004...Oct. 9

Minn. Teachers Conv....Oct 21&22

I think ND Conv. will be the same week as Minn. next year.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

I wondered when we supoorted the early chinse chicken opener in exchange for an earlier opening date in some years if this revisiting of the PLOTS restrictions would not come back up and we would be stuck with more time for G/O to exploit the wildlife and the freelance hunter stuck with a hand full of nothing. Time will tell on this.

When I pointed out higher populations in the east and the lack of nonpay access as a potential problem along with the snow at least Fast Eddy did agree with this as a possible reason. I am not so sure that Ed is as G/O happy as he use to be and the reason may be he felt the cost of a single day of roster shooting for his troop. While he may be able to pay the rate I do think it opened his eyes.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

A buddies cousin stopped by the farm yesterday while pheasant hunting. He is from Califorina and had just come from Mott where he has hunted for the last dozen years. He said he will never go back again. This trip was it. The Mott Motel, the cafe and Georges Bar were pretty quiet. Not many hunters around. Birds up the whazoo. No permission given. The last contacts he had have gone to the dark side now. $$$$

Someone quoted NDGF as a source that 85% of the ground is posted there, (that would leave 15% open). If that number were accurate, apx 1/6 of the land would be unposted, apx 1 quater in every section and 1/2. ?????????????????????????????? Fellas, that's not the case. Shes posted tight. Will they get the picture? Because the rest of the state is picking up those custonmers. Hats off, thank you very much!


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Solution for Mott Businesses******Since they have pretty much forsaken the resident hunter in favor of the high dollar out of state sportsman, and their cash flow is apparently suffering, maybe if they sent a short and sweet note to their out of state customers explaining that they can no longer "hold" prime hunting areas unless additional funds are received. These supplemental funds could come in the form of the the complimental flashlight or AM/FM radio that they get (in the battery compartments). 

Hey, you never know, It might just work


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I would like the law changed so Nrs cannot hunt on weekends but could hunt plots on opening week. This would lower pressure dramatically for residents on the weekends when most of them hunt and would not burden the average NR who comes for a week and spends both weekends traveling to and fro anyway. I would also like them to allow us NRs to hunt opening week starting the first Monday and see the possession limit raised to a 5 day limit on upland birds so the NR could legally hunt the full five days if they are successful each day. This would also stem the flood of hunters you see every weekend from Minn that seems to tick everyone off. Minn hunters could schedule a week to stay at a hotel just like Nrs from other parts of the country insuring full hotels and commerce.


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## fireball (Oct 3, 2003)

Living in SE ND, I will tell you one thing, there is no need to drive all the way out west during these good yrs for pheasant hunting. With all the pheasant programs going on now, there are more birds around this yr than there has ever been. I walked crp and corn fields this fall deer hunting, chasing up litteraly 50-60 birds in a 40 acre plot. I wasn't even walking heavy cover, so I can imagine how many more I walked right by. These people can come on the radio, write to the paper,or blow all the smoke they want to, but any real hunter or outdoors person knows the reason the west is suffering. They became greedy and now that the resource(pheasants) has exploded in size in the last 5 yrs. Their greed isn't controlled by demand anymore, but by supply. There are more pheasant than ever, so now people are not going to pay to drive that far or put up with the hassle of no land access. As "ethical" American business dictates in the last few yrs, if you have control of the resource, screw the customer(Enron actually shut down power grids to create power outages in California, creating a false energy shortage, so they could raise prices. That must be Chaney ethics.) Then when the customer gets sick of it, complain that someone is unfairly restricting your rights as an American business person. Well, what goes around...... If they want the customers in their bars, hotels, gas stations etc.., they need to start from the beginning and convince the customer(us hunters) that they offer something special and will do what it takes to provide the service we demand, now that the supply is in excess.

When you build your house on rocky foundations, you shouldn't be suprised when it all comes tumbling down. I am all for business and capitalism, but when greed becomes the rule instead of the exception, you can't expect continued success when your control of the supply is lost. I hope these chambers of commerce and local merchants realize that this smoke that the g\o's groups and a few big business' are blowing is BS, and make the changes necassary to bring business back to their towns. The need to realize that they are not the only ball game in town anymore, so the money that used to flow in, now goes to other areas. Hopefully these business' will work with local landowners to open access to land. Bring back average Joe hunter and his two kids, let them fill your hotels, restaurants and bars. They need to remember the horse they road to town, before they put it out for slaughter. I think what is going on now with pheasant hunting out west is a great reminder of what is going on now with waterfowl hunting. The last 3 yrs, with geese staging farther north(less hunting pressure) and flying over when it finally gets cold, proves that these animals aren't around becuase they are stupid. Adjust, you live, fail, you die. Just like small town business.

http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=46534
This is an opinion article in the forum, about posting crp. 
It is full of misinformation and bad logic, but provides a good idea for posting accessible land. I like the logic that we are paying for cheaper food with our tax money that pays for crp programs, so we should just be happy. I see it this way, we are paying for someone to continue a lifestyle through our tax funded farming programs. Then there is the line about posting in protest, because NR hunters can only hunt one week in ND, another line of misinformation. It is letters like this filled with bad logic and false information that are our worst enemy, because the average Joe who doesn't hunt, but votes, will get the wrong impression. I think we need to form a group who monitors these smoke screens in local papers and forums, and address's them with replies, whether it be in editorials or sitting beside Eddie while he has his one sided talks with his buddies. I think Mr. Monson, Mr. Buede, and many others would serve a project like this well. We need to address the great amount of misleading information these groups throw out to educate"wink, wink" the people. 
All riiiiiigggghhhty then, I am off the soap box....NEXT.
:sniper:


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

About 2 weeks ago I was introduced to a couple of land owners from the Mott area (father and son) and asked them how there hunting season went. I was toild it would have been alot better if the G&F hadn't screwed them over so bad. I thought I was going to hear the same arguments that I have been hearing all year (raising the price on out of state hunters,etc.) but they went on to tell me how the G&F was screwing them buy trying to increase the pheasant population in other areas of the state and taking away there customers. That the S.W. corner of the state should be the only place in the state that has pheasants. They also told me that the eastern and central part of the state is for waterfowl and there part of the state is for pheasants. Now that there are pheasants every where that they are being screwed over. People wont drive to Mott if they can shot pheasants and ducks in the same day and drive two hours less and it's all the G&F fault. They also told me that they are being screwed over by not being able to set the limit on pheasants. They thought that the limit should be 5 or 6 birds a day. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

I told them that I was land owner also and that my land was on the east side of the river and that I liked the fact that our pheasant numbers were way up and asked them why they think that I shouldn't have pheasants on my land. I also asked them if they let anybody hunt who doesn't pay and they said no. I also asked if there neighbors charged to hunt as well they said all but one and he was ruining it for the rest of them buy letting people hunt for free. Now I didn't say any more because they were friendly and when somebody is this clueless there is no reason to argue with them.

I don't know where they get the idea that they are the only ones who should have these birds or that they should be able to set the season, but I am starting to get a better idea why there are less hunters out west this year.


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## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

Unfortunately, it sounds like some areas up there are beginning to become like a lot of other states. Down here, if you don't own hunting land, or have a friend that owns land, then you have to pay for land access, or you simply don't go hunting. Unfortunately it is a fact down here and we have to deal with it. I hope for the sake of all the people that are lucky enough to hunt your great State, that someone comes up with a solution before it is too late.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I witnessed first hand this weekend why you don't have to go west to hunt pheasants. 5 of us shot a limit of (wild)pheasants closer than I thought possible to Fargo. On Friday I know we saw at least 250 birds. Saturday was a bit slower but still pretty unbelievable. This was a real eye opener for me.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

People need to quit blaming the NDGF for their problems. If you don't like the current situation, do something to change it. As I've said before, "quit your *****in". Nobody feels sorry for you. They created their own demise in mott, now THEY have to fix it. The real losers in the whole deal are the hotels and restaurants that bank off hunting. All the $$$ associated with hunting didn't disappear, it just relocated. If your business model revolves around 3-4 months of the year, you better figure out what the CAUSE of the problem is, not the consequences. Get smart or go outta business, simple as that.


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

ND Decoy,

Those two guys you told about are unbelieveable. It is amazing what people will do to blame their misfortune on other people (or government agencies)! :huh:


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I still Blame the Govenor & Director of G&F & the Regional Reps. for not understanding what makes ND Hunting so Great & Unique. The Pandering & mis-management & lack of Leadership & finding Real Solutions has caused alot of the grief :eyeroll:

Tourism & Hospitality & the Communities could do so much more to make their regions & towns more open & friendly to Freelance Hunters - (who are by far the ones coming & spending money in ND). If things are not done to curtail self-centered commercialization of hunting, they will get what they deserve.

I guess we had to go thru all this ??? I just hope some real lessons have been learned ??? Or will the squeaky wheels get the grease ???

I sure hope more that understand this get appointed to the Regional Reps. of G&FD & more get elected or listen to their constituent's that are in the Legislature - then ND could remain a Unique - Special place forever.


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

Perry,

Your right, the comments that those guys made to me just make me shake my head. I don't think the G&F is trying to ruin the hunting in the s.w. part of the state. I think that alot of the outfitters in the area are doing a good enough job on there own. The one thing that really got me was that they thought they had the right to say how many birds a person can shoot in a day. I am a believer that our G&F knows what it is doing when it comes to set the daily limits and think that they have done a good job at it.

I guess that I am lucky in that I own land and the peoples land who I hunt on are some of the nicest people that any body would ever want to meet.

I think that Fetch is right on and can place alot of this blame right on John Hoven's door. He has done a piss poor job and has botched this whole thing from the begining.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Fetch,

I think that you hit the nail on the head when you said that "freelance" hunters are the ones bringing money into the small communities. I do 90% of my pheasant hunting on government lands......simply because I do not know many landowners and find it hard to find them when I am out. But my point is that I purposely don't fill up my gas tank in Bismarck when I leave to go hunting and I don't pack lunch (other than a snack or too). I try to buy gas, lunch, pop, and a beer or two in the area I am hunting. I hunt every single weekend from the time that grouse season opens through the last weekend in the season as well as using the majority of my vacation time in the fall to chase the rooties. I spend much more money in the rural communities than any NR simply because of the time I spend in the field.

I also am a person that has helped the 2 landowners I know haul grain and through hay bails when they need it........not because I think I owe them something but because I appreciate their friendliness and enjoy the outdoors.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Remmi_&_I,

I too have to agree with your agreement. (Sorry for the redundancy) I too go out into the community to face to face. I ask a lot of questions here in the forums to gain information but while I am out in the area I stop and buy soda's, chips, gas, chew, or what have you to face to face the folks. This is also a way of putting back into the area and I am literally out in some area every day. The area I control for work is over 20K square miles so I go out to every point of the map. My family takes me out to Dickinson and up to Devils Lake. I stop in every little town (Yes, even the population of two towns, ever been to Prosper, ND?)

What I am taking a long time to say is that through sustainment, I have put more into the areas that I go to then NR's. Your "Freelance" statement is in a concurence with me. :beer:


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

I've gotten to know a couple of farmers who put their land into the PLOTS program this year. I learned from both of them through conversation that the didn't enroll land only for the money, sure it's nice, but both said they enrolled the land because they wanted to let hunters use their resources due to the shrinking amount of land available to freelancers.

I'm bringing appreciation gifts to them in addition to the the farmers who allow us to hunt other land. They will remember this some day when they are not enrolled in the program. I'd bet there are some of you that hunt the same PLOTS areas throughout the year that might want to do the same. Remember they are still providing hunting opportunties even though it's in the state program.


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