# 300 win mag ballistics



## biggamehunter69

I have a friend that said a 300 win mag and a .30-06 have the same ballistics and that the 30 wm sucks a$$. Is this true he also said that a 300 wsm has way better ballistics than the 300 wm is this true.


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## Plainsman

Well, there will be no use arguing with your friend because he will not be able to hear you from where his head is stuffed. First of all these three calibers, 300 Winchester mag, 300WSM and 30-06 all shoot .308 diameter bullets. The only difference is they shoot them at different velocities. 
Lets look at one bullet weight, and one manufacturer so we are comparing apples and apples to begin with. Lets look at Federal 180 gr bullets. The 300 Winchester Mag will do 2960 feet per second, while the 300WSM will do 2970 fps. The 30-06 drives a 180 gr bullet at 2700 feet per second.
At first glance it would appear that the 300WSM does indeed outperform the 300WSM. I have both, and what the magazine hype doesn't tell you is that it achieves it with hotter loads ie higher chamber pressures. When reloading it is very difficult to get 2970 feet per second from my 300WSM. The hottest load I have gets a 180gr Nosler Partition to 2940 fps. That is close. However, my best load in my 300 Winchester mag will push this same bullet to 3200 fps out of a 26 inch barrel. My 300WSM has a 23 inch barrel, and I would guess I would get in the neighborhood of 3050 fps if I had a 26 inch barrel on it. The very top load in the Nosler manual puts a 180 gr bullet at 2872 fps out of a 30-06.
I have owned and reloaded for all three calibers. That aint roses your friend is smelling where he has his head stuffed. Look in a few reloading manuals then go give your friend a little static, in a friendly way of course, as my comments are meant.


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## biggamehunter69

I forgot to write these are his word and are not mine he said the 300 wm is for rich city guys that cant hit s**t and like to spend all there money on ammo. i told him wat to do


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## Plainsman

I think your friend is worried you might buy one and outshoot him. I understand why people like what they have, but I don't understand why they have such strong feelings against things they don't have. I would bet most people that don't like the 300 mag have never shot one. It's like that with crossbows. People will tell you they are like a rifle to 200 yards. In their dreams. I could get a permit for one, but as long as I can pull my bow I will stick with it out of preference.


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## clampdaddy

Plainsman has made a good point. Your friend might be one of those guys who believes the first advertisement he reads or he may be trying to keep himself from being one-uped by you and a real 300 mag. 
I have two buddys that went through this exact situation last deer season. One guy was a devoted 30-06 shooter for years and would badmouth any smaller caliber that came through camp. He claimed that my 25-06 and my other friends 243 wern't even adequate for gathering campmeat, and that a deer needed to be hit with at least 180 grains to put them down reliably. Just to shut him up I went and bought a 45-110 so I could show up in camp, show him the cartridge, and tell him that it takes 500 grains of lead to put down a deer so he might as well take that little 30 caliber and go shoot some campmeat. Time went by and I got a 270wsm, my 243 shooting buddy got a 7wsm. Mr. 30-06 heard of this so he went and got a 300wsm and it started all over again. My 243 shooting buddy then goes and buys a 300 weatherby. By now thier conversations about thier rifles are getting heated. One guy looks at the other and laughs at his short mag, the short mag shooter waves around a winchester advertisement like a preacher thumping on a bible and all I can do is laugh. At the bench, both of them are afraid of thier rifles.


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## Horsager

Plainsman is correct. Any handloader can take a 300 Win mag and outperform a 300WSM, Federal's High Energy loads will do it too. The WSM puts up pretty good numbers with a 165gn bullet, but get any heavier bullets an a truely savvy handloader will get damned close with a 30-06. This year I've learned more about bullet placement than any year previous. I double lunged a doe @ 325yds with an 80gn 243 factory load and flattened her, I'd always considered a 243 a bit light for deer, yet that bullet penetrated over 20" of deer before stopping under the hide on the off side. Three deer were thumped with authority by my 270win. One a buddy shot at 450yds with a 15-20mph crosswind, a one shot bang-flop, one was a buck trotting right at 300yds, and the other a head shot on a doe @ 493yds (on purpose), and I've never considered the 270 a long range cartrige. Put the bullets where they need to be, the arguing is all just numbers on paper.


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## aarongnm

I am also a proud owner of a 300 win mag and wouldnt use anything else
because that is what I am comfortable with. I have just taken down an average sized Cow elk at about 450 yards. I used the federal 180 grain Barnes MRX. I was really happy with the accuracy while zeroing at the range as well as its performance on my elk. It has a really good trajectory and seems to retain knock down power down range. I would like to reload with the MRX. Does anyone have any good ideas for loads or of a really good 200 grain recipe?


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## Plainsman

aarongnm

Just look in the Barnes manual.

I noticed the MRX are $28 for 20 bullets. I guess I have paid more, so I might have to try them.

One thing to keep in mind with all X bullets is that you can go down a size or two in weight. I have gone to 165 grain in my 300 mag. I would get away from the 200 grain because of the short neck in the 300 Win Mag. Especially with the old long for weight old X bullets. Anything over 180 grain starts to invade your space that is better used for powder. I like my 300, but it is inefficient with heavy bullets.


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## Horsager

I load the 200gn Barnes Triple Shock in my 300Win (the MRX isn't available in a 200gn load). Over the Chrono it is 3020FPS out of a factory 26" SS Winchester. I started with a middle of the road type load for powder and worked up from there. As Barnes claimes on their website you can go a grain or two over max loads listed for the original X. Their max load with IMR 4831 is 70gn with an original X in their #1 reloading manual. I am currently at 72gn of IMR 4831(well compressed), which is 2gn over max, but within the limits proposed on their website for the TSX. Accuracy is excellent, 100yd 3-shot groups averaging in the .7"'s, but have been as good as the .4"'s. I am getting 4-5 reloadings on Federal Brass.

This is what a 200gn TSX looks like after it's dug out of an elk shot at 400yds. Impact velocity was 2300ish.



















P.S. Bullet weighs 200.2gns now.


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## Plainsman

Horsager, I am surprised you recovered it. Most of the X bullets I have shot animals with have complete penetration. Some lengthwise. I have only recovered on X bullet. Even the little 53 gr 22 caliber pills I shot two does with this fall had complete penetration. One entered the left shoulder passed through the vertebra and exited the right shoulder. She went down like you had pole axed her. 
My 165 gr move out at 3450 fps. I must admit the reason for this was to have enough velocity at extended ranges to ensure mushrooming. 
Over 3000 fps is very good for a 200 gr bullet. I have tried 200 gr Sierra Game King, and velocity was less than desirable. I guess a person should never assume, but I had assumed that the longer copper X bullet would ****** case capacity so much that velocity would suffer.

Edit: I see the site doesn't like some words. I really didn't type X bullet would stupid case capacity. Maybe I should just have said reduce, or impede case capacity. The word was r e t a r d


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## Horsager

The bullet did try to go lenghtwise through the elk at 400yds starting from the ahhhhh.................backside! The rifle shoots very well, the bullets are very much up to the task, on that day the shooter left lots to be desired, very poor form. The bullet in the pic went through nearly 30" of elk, broke 4 ribs and a vertebre. I have another bullet from that same elk I was presented with when I went to pick up the processed meat. I didn't ask where the bullet was found but it's sheared off two petals and I'm guessing it took a similar path as the 1st one but got the femur on the way through, weigh 187gns. VERY POOR FORM. I'd like to blame the weather (40degrees, clear, no wind), the altitude (about 5500ft), my new glasses(I started wearing glasses in Jan), the scope (4.5-14x40 Leupold with custom shop ballistic matched reticle), the rifle, and everything else I can think of, but I can't. I just plain didn't do my job well, I got the job done, animal was dead reletively quick, there's lots to eat, but the shooting was UGLY!!


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## Plainsman

Well, that is one great thing about the X bullet. It matters little what direction the animal is standing , if you know which direction the heart is the X bullet will reach it. You often read in outdoor magazines that animals standing at some angle or another are not ethical shots. If you know animal anatomy you will reach the heart of the largest animals with a 30 caliber 200 grain X bullet at 3000 fps. 
I would say your performance was OK Horsager, the elk is in your freezer, and died rapidly, right?


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## Horsager

I was oh so full of confidence after my last elk (2003) was a very dramatic, bang-flop kill. That over-confidence was shattered in an instant. In the future I'd prefer 1 hole in the critter as opposed to 4.



> Well, that is one great thing about the X bullet. It matters little what direction the animal is standing , if you know which direction the heart is the X bullet will reach it


That is however exactly the reason I use a 200 TSX and stoke it as hard as I dare.


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## racer66

Thanks guys for all this info, I'm not a hand loader so this has been interesting to follow. My LOVELY wife bought me a Sako 300WSM last year for Christmas and last week I purchased 2 300WM for my 2 boys as the plan is to go elk hunting in 2 years. All of this info is very interesting to me and may push me to hand loading. I have used a .243 for some 20 years deer hunting and have had very good success but, it was time to go a little bigger for the elk.


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