# Nonresident waterfowl hunters look to North Dakota



## Bob Kellam

*Nonresident waterfowl hunters look to North Dakota*
By RICHARD HINTON/Bismarck Tribune 
Minnesotans made up almost half of all out-of-state duck and goose hunters who bought licenses to hunt in North Dakota last fall.

Its 10,000 lakes notwithstanding, 10,184 Minnesotans ponied up the $100 for the license and certificates necessary to legally hunt waterfowl in North Dakota for 14 days. And some, no doubt, paid an additional $40 for the privilege to hunt statewide.

Why so many Minnesotans, besides proximity?

"They can't find a place to hunt there. It's too crowded, and there are not enough places to hunt. They are looking for a quality experience, and looking for a place to find that," said Randy Kreil, chief of the wildlife division for the North Dakota Game and Fish Department.

"The challenge is maintaining that quality experience for residents and nonresidents over a period of time," he added.

That only 116 South Dakotans and fewer Montanans, 86, bought waterfowl licenses to hunt North Dakota only reinforces notions about the Minnesota waterfowl hunting experience.

Wisconsin sent the second most waterfowl hunters to North Dakota, 4,944.

Those two states comprised more than 65 percent of the 23,121 nonresidents who bought waterfowl licenses to hunt in North Dakota.

"I'm not surprised by that," Kreil said. "In our waterfowl workshops, we estimated that 75 percent (of nonresident waterfowl hunters) were from Minnesota and Wisconsin."

Waterfowl hunters from all 50 states, as well as five Canadian provinces, bought licenses to hunt in North Dakota.

Thirty-one hunters put down a North Dakota address but bought nonresident licenses "for some reason," said Paul Schadewald, NDGFD chief of administrative services.

New residents who don't meet the six-month residency requirement can apply for a waiver if they plan to stay in North Dakota long term, he added.

"They can buy resident licenses with special approval," he explained.

One hunter from Quebec and one hunter from Saskatchewan bought licenses Two in the Yukon bought licenses.

And two Hawaiians bought licenses.

Schadewald guesses that a small percentage of nonresident waterfowl license buyers did not make the trip to North Dakota.

"We do some refunds if there's a medical emergency or if someone dies," he added.

Fewer out-of-state hunters came to North Dakota this year than last year when almost 26,000 nonresidents came to hunt ducks or geese.

One of the reasons is the ongoing drought.

"Certain parts of the state have been very dry for at least three years," Schadewald said. "It concentrated birds in smaller areas. The wetlands that remains had quite a few birds on them. It was a matter of having access to them."

The drought could get even worse next year.

"Unless we get significant snow and rain this spring, it will be tough on waterfowl and waterfowl hunting," Kreil said.

Avid waterfowl hunters could go to wetter areas next season, Kreil predicted.

"They won't come here to hunt if there are no birds. Waterfowl hunters are highly mobile," he explained.

Most residents or nonresidents hunting waterfowl in North Dakota today have forgotten what waterfowl hunting was like during the last sustained drought, 1987-92, Kreil said.

"We had three-bird bag limits, shorter seasons and a lot less people participating, in the neighborhood of 5,000 nonresident waterfowl hunters. Resident waterfowl hunter numbers dropped off as well," explained Kreil.

With waterfowl breeding grounds locked in drought, waterfowl populations plummeted, Kreil said.

"Since '93 we had an unprecedented wet cycle. We kept reminding people that will change. We might be starting to see the beginnings of that, with the dry conditions we had last year," Kreil added.

"Based on wetland conditions we had this fall, we will need a lot of snow and a lot of rain to change that trend."

(Reach outdoor writer Richard Hinton at 701-250-8256 or [email protected].)


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## 4CurlRedleg

> "They can't find a place to hunt there. It's too crowded, and there are not enough places to hunt.


 :lost: Pressure? I think we can relate.


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## Shu

There are places to hunt, just not many birds!


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## HUNTNFISHND

It will be interesting to see what the Fed regulations will be for this season. I don't see how they can keep the liberal bag limits in place.


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## djleye

I certainly hope the limits are dropped!!!!!


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## KEN W

We had a good hatch last year....good water conditions.No moisture will mean lower numbers of ducks.It could get really bad if we don't get snow or rain before they come back.


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## Blue Plate

I think a 3/30 season would be the best thing that could happen to the sport.


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## KEN W

Blue Plate said:


> I think a 3/30 season would be the best thing that could happen to the sport.


That is possible....but I think Canada is in pretty good shape,so that might be low....I would guess 4 and 8.

If it gets that bad and 1,000's of non-res stay home.....I guess we will find out if them not coming will close down all these small town businesses or not as they say.


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## Shu

4/8 won't cause many from MN to drop out - we started that last year.


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## Field Hunter

I'll make a prediction.....it'll be 5/10 again with the stupid Hunter's choice regulation continuing for 2 more years.

There's too many people making money off this resource for the feds to close it down. If Canada has decent production the feds will leave it alone and continue their mismanagement of the resource.


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## MRN

FH

Probably right. Canada's water was mostly very good last summer/fall and they are having good snow this winter.

Another concern is the slow trickle of ducks southward this fall. It might prompt even more folks to drive northward next fall , and since SD doesn't welcome many... All the hero pictures from ND sure makes it appear easy here.

If wonder if we will see a southern state senator introduce a bill that all waterfowl will be south of the 40th parallel by Thanksgiving??

M.


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## Blue Plate

A lot can happen in the next 4 or 5 months. I think a 3/30 season will get a bunch of rookie hunters out of the game.

I would still hunt if the season was 1 duck with a 1 day season.


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## taddy1340

> Another concern is the slow trickle of ducks southward this fall.


That's very true. I'm TDY in MS right now and they've been killing mostly local ducks and continue to complain that no ducks have come south. What a difference down here compared to ND.

Mike


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## Dirt Nap

As a resident of MN I stopped hunting ND because ND changed its up-land hunting license also to a 14 day periord. I another reason I have stopped hunting ND for waterfowl also was because of the drought, I have been doing a lot better in SK. Only time I hunt ND is in the spring for snow geese. I am wondering when MN will start limiting the number of ND boaters who come fish the MN lakes?


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## 4CurlRedleg

Dirt Nap said:


> I am wondering when MN will start limiting the number of ND boaters who come fish the MN lakes?


Hopefully yesterday.


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## Scraper

> I am wondering when MN will start limiting the number of ND boaters who come fish the MN lakes?


The better question is when MN will realize the incredible amount of money they waste administering a monster DNR program when they could actually be fixing some of their ills, but I am not here to tell you how to fix your state.


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## djleye

> I am wondering when MN will start limiting the number of ND boaters who come fish the MN lakes?


Here we go again........Comparing hunting and fishing makes no sense whatsoever!!!! :eyeroll:


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## always_outdoors

Someone toss me a beer!!!


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## Dirt Nap

Hunting is an assest for ND just like fishing is an assest for MN. ND is taking advantage of their assest I don't see why MN doesn't take more advantage of their assest. Such as higher property taxes for out of state residents on the lakes and to put a boat on the water that is out of state. I would like a beer also. :beer:


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## Ihuntnfish

:stirpot: :stirpot: :stirpot:

Comparing Apples and oranges, no change that apples and turnips. Another hijacked thread


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## Dak

More power to ya...couldn't care less.


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## always_outdoors

Dirt Nap: Just a couple of questions for you.

1. Do you post on any SD outdoor websites, because they have more pheasants than we do AND those same ducks go through their state. They have tighter restrictions than we do. How come I just hear Minnesotans complaining about ND when SD "assets" are just as good plus their restrictions are tighter?

2. If MN chooses to put laws in place that tax ND lake homes more or boat fees, fishing licenses, etc...I don't think you will see us coming on your outdoor websites complaining or trying to push our weight around. So why must Minnesotans feel they can do it in this case?

I really don't understand the rationale. I would love to hunt ducks in SD, but they only allow 7000 NR licenses. Should I go onto their outdoor website and complain? No. It is their state and they should see fit how they want to run it.

Please help me understand.


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## hydro870

Live2Hunt,

There you go again pointing out the truth of the matter. Don't you know that certain people, whose minds are already made up, don't want to be confused by the facts.

I have made the same observations. It seems the complaining begins and ends with ND, even though SD is more restrictive. Why didn't Hatch go after SD?

What surprises me the most about these numbers is that Minnesota has WAY more lakes and potholes than South Dakota or Montana. Yet Non-resident SD duck hunters numbered 116, Montana Duck hunters numbered 86, and Minnesota numbered over 10,000!!!! Minnesota has by far a lot more water to hunt, yet they choose to hunt elsewhere. Montana and South Dakota have fewer places to hunt, yet they stay home. Very interesting.


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## Chuck Smith

MN does have more water.....but no ducks or habitat. Look at all the lakes in MN. Most are mowed right to the lake. No cover for nesting birds. Look at the mighty mississipi.....not food or habitat. Just a polluted muddy mess. Again that is why many MN people go elsewhere to hunt.

A reason why Hatch did not go after SD....because these laws were inplace before his time. The changes in ND were during his tenure. He was trying to gain votes for the upcoming election.

A reason why NR's give opinions on ND matters is because others have asked. Look at most links on this site. People ask....what do you think about Leg tags, what do you think about a NR cap, what to you think about outlawing g/o's.....people ask for input and others give it. It is not that the NR is trying to force the R's of ND to do anything. WE are just throwing in our .02 cents because someone asked on a public forum.


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## hydro870

Fair enough.


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## always_outdoors

Chuck: Not true. Why is it that I can't go anywhere in MN without some Minnesotan chewing on my butt??

Pulled the boat over to Park Rapids one time this summer. Went into the local sporting goods store to look around and as soon as I mentioned ND I was jumped not only by the guy behind the counter, but two guys standing next to me.

Met a teacher on the tarmack in the Minneapolis Airport. Just chatting away until he saw my ND Outdoors magazine......then it all began about how I was trying to cut him out and how terrible us resident hunters are.

When I asked about SD.....I got NOTHING from him in return.

I can add more stories, but don't want to make this post any longer.

So..my question to you and all your MN buddies is why push your weight around to ND. Why is it that you single out ND? Why is it that many feel that they should have the exact same privileges that I do living here in the state? I have friends in SD that own lake homes in MN. How come you don't blame them for the huge increase in lake home properties?

We never hear it here do we? When was the last editorial from some Minnesotan complaining about SD restrictions???



> MN does have more water.....but no ducks or habitat. Look at all the lakes in MN. Most are mowed right to the lake. No cover for nesting birds. Look at the mighty mississipi.....not food or habitat.


But you had it once. Look at the harvest rates back in the late 50's. You even shot 1.5 million pheasants back then as resident hunters.

It seems to me that it is easier for MN hunters to blame ND resident hunters for their problems when in reality they should be more vocal at home.

Chuck: I am not directing this entire post at you. Please take that into consideration. I know you are an avid poster on this site and see a much better vision than others from your state, but many come on here and complain without ever coming back. they come on, complain and we don't see them again.

My wife says she hates when we try and go anywhere because as soon I wear a Browning hat or coat, shirt etc.. and we end up in MN, someone goes off on me. Next week we fly into Phoenix through Minneapolis and she has already made the comment, please try not to look like a hunter.


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## Chuck Smith

liv2 hunt....

I have had the same things when traveling through ND. They see my MN plates and just start to go off on the whole MN trying to sue ND. Try knocking on some doors to gain permission to hunt with out of state plates. I have seen signs in yards stating "NR not welcomed". People are people. Not all People from MN or ND are like this. I have met some very nice people in my travels.

The reason why more are not going after SD is because all of those laws have been in place for years. ND is trying to make new laws and regs. So people that are effected by them are going to scream and shout. Again the whole lawsuit thing was two politicians trying to get votes. Then people jump on band wagons instead of seeing the real problem and not pushing for dedicated funding.

Don't worry about traveling through the state looking like a hunter.....some people are just jealous of what you have in ND. I know I am.

Also another reason why MN are up in arms with ND is because one of your college football teams almost beat the gophers.... :beer:


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## Invector

I heard figures from the ND G&F that we had atleast one person from the other 49 states with MN and WI being the most that came. Thought this was kind of an intresting figure.


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## always_outdoors

Chuck: I believe there is a difference though. You are out here to hunt and seeking permission to hunt. When I am in Minnnesota, I am not there to hunt. I am there to waterski, get on a plane, watch a ball game, etc..

One time I was attending a conference in Orlando, Florida. I was sitting in the hottub that evening with about 8 other people and someone asked where I was from and I said "North Dakota". Out of those sitting around the pool was a guy from Minnesota and boy did he go off on me. It was almost embarrassing. He then got up and left the pool. I just shook my head. The couple from New York thought it was hilarious.

Maybe I have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time. I guess I just don't understand the logic of the group across the Red River. Just because SD has had those laws in place for more years than ND, I dont' think it is justified to just go after ND for their restrictions.


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## barebackjack

Heh heh,.....minnesota fishing, thats funny.

The last time I fished in minnesota was more like bumper boats. They fish and hunt about like they drive through the twin cities at 5pm on a friday.

Tell ya what, ND will be nice. We'll double the amount of NR waterfowlers that SD lets in. Say, 15,000.


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## Chuck Smith

Liv2hunt

I have had the same situations. I have been in ND visiting friends and on business and get confronted.

Again....SD has had the regs in place for years. ND just implimented them. So who do people try to stop....the new guy. It is hard to change laws/regulations that are already in effect. It is easier to stop new ones from getting implimented. That is why NR's are up in arms about ND and voicing opinions.

Another thing that is playing into effect of this whole situation is the out-migration of ND. People are moving to different states...but still have family ties and friends back in ND. So they want to keep enjoying the ND resource that they grew up with. I know that they moved and should not have the same privliges as ND residents. But they don't want to be capped on days afield, license, etc. They still want to have thier cake and eat it too. That is another reason for the opposition.

Also look at the way the state offers license to students. I know of many MN people that have gone to NDSU and Univeristy of ND. They get the R priviliges. They get hooked on waterfowl hunting and then move back to MN and again want thier cake and eat it too.

Above I am not starting arguements or anything like that. I am just stating some situations that occur. I don't believe NR's should have the same rights as R. But am just sheding some insite into why MN has so many hunters in ND and why they can be some of the more vocal.


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## Straycat

I'm sorry I'm not buying into this argument. I am a former SD resident. Born and raised there. I out migrated too in the early 1980's. I would love to waterfowl hunt with my Dad and friends every season in SD when and where I want, however I have to apply and follow the rules just like everyone else. I don't expect privileges as a former SD resident. It's only 70 miles for me to the SD border and 100 miles to the folks.

This was also the case when I lived (and hunted) in Minnesota for many years. The difference is that the Dakotas have the resource. The NR's want access to the resource just like the residents.

The tuition issue, I don't agree with people getting a break from out of state. I would have loved to attend the U of M, but had to settle for a little teacher college in Aberdeen, SD.


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## Chuck Smith

Again Stray cat......the rules were already in place in SD. In ND they are not. So you knew what was going to happen when you moved. Now if people leave ND they know that they will have two weeks. Now if that changes to a draw or less time or what ever they will put up a little fight.

If a kid from any state goes to an institute of higher learning in ND they can get a R license. They just have to live in ND. If you live in the dorms you are living in ND.


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## always_outdoors

Thank you Chuck for the feedback.

Your post is exactly why restrictions need to be place....out-migration of ND families.

If ND does not have the regulations in place to "favor" its residents, then there is no incentive for me to stay here. I live in ND because of the hunting. I have listed before the difference in my salary versus the national average.

If I could live somewhere else and have the exact same privileges as the guy living in Washburn, ND. Why wouldn't I? I would be one of ND's out-migrated numbers then.

Personally I think the kids today and when I graduated college were so focussed on money, they left because someone in Minneapolis had a bigger check than someone in Bismarck did.

My parents raised me on our resources and not to focus on money. To focus on a way of life. Why should the guy who chose more money in the cities get the same privileges as me? He shouldn't.

Good see we are all keeping this civilized.


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## Straycat

Yep, I knew it when I left and still do. I don't like it, but there it is. I also respect states' rights for SD to have their law. ND should also have the right to do what is necessary to protect the resource for both the R's and NR's. However too much of the complaint is focused on ND because we didn't need many restrictions until now. One thing that can be assured in life is change. Change is difficult.

A reminder that the reason SD implemented their waterfowl restrictions back in the 1940's was for most of the same reasons faced by ND today. It was not until 1975 that there was a lottery system for NR's for waterfowl hunting.

I am hopeful that this issue and debate will initiate some efforts to improve waterfowl habitat, access and waterfowling hunting by hunters in the predominate states visiting ND in this article.

Good debate... and remaining civilized.

Keep the wind at your back.


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## Jungda99

Something to think about...

I saw a show about SD pheasant hunting this week on the outdoor channel that said. SD has 90,000 NR Pheasant hunters and 75,000 R hunters. Going by those numbers SD already has plenty of "presure" on the land and landowners. Is this part of the reason SD has a cap on NR waterfowlers? Imagine if NR waterfowling was not capped, SD would have another 30,000-40,000(at least) NRs trying to hunt where 150,000 people are already hunting pheasants. That would seem to get a bit dangerous.

I don't know the numbers on NR pheasant hunter in ND but I can't imagine it is as high as SD.

So based on these numbers SD has way more preassure on the land than ND does even with the cap on NR waterfowlers...

If SD took the cap off of NR waterfowlers the preassure would skyrocket because thousands of people would "kill two birds with one stone" Have some of the best pheasant hunting in the nation allong with some great duck hunting. Hunt 3-4 days of pheasants and 3-4 days of ducks.

Just something to think about


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## Straycat

SD has tremedous pheasant hunting opportunities. Along this with that came the pay to hunt operations, leased up land and too many hunting related "cottage" industries.

Don't let g/o know this, but I used to guide pheasant hunters in eastern SD back in the 70's. We didn't call that then. We didn't have many birds then since there was no CRP and the Soil Bank days were over. There were plenty of hunters too. NR's would ask the guy at the gas station or the hardware store where to hunt and they would point them to a landowner or to "ask that Straycat kid, he can help you out". I helped them out and hunted with them too. Many I still know today. _My pay:_ a box of shotgun shells or two, maybe lunch and a little gas money. I would tip the landowner or the widow lady with a cleaned young pheasant or two. Enough of story time.

Today I don't bother go back home to SD to pheasant hunt anymore. Everyone has their handout now and I can't even hunt on land my high school friends have in the family due to leasing.

Do this to SD waterfowling... disasterous. Same for ND.

Pheasants- stationary. Waterfowl - migratory. Please don't make the comparison of the two.

Something to think about...


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## Dirt Nap

I wouldn't say MN is the prime area for the central flyway, that is why so many NR go to ND to hunt a migratory bird.


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## ndwaterfowler

live2hunt said:


> Your post is exactly why restrictions need to be place....out-migration of ND families.
> 
> If ND does not have the regulations in place to "favor" its residents, then there is no incentive for me to stay here. I live in ND because of the hunting. I have listed before the difference in my salary versus the national average.


live2hunt, I think you have nailed about 90% of the reasoning behind a lot of the regulating of NR's. I know A LOT of people who live on the West side of the Red River for that very reason. The state of ND is not dumb ladies and gentlemen, they will make far more revenue off the property taxes of your ND home than they will from your $140 NR license if you chose to live out of state. It all comes down to how much you value your hunting.

Chris


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## Chuck Smith

My whole reasoning for bringing up the out-migration is that might be the reason for increase in NR numbers.

People coming back for the duck season with friends and family. Just like many do for deer hunting.


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## KEN W

Chuck Smith said:


> My whole reasoning for bringing up the out-migration is that might be the reason for increase in NR numbers.
> 
> People coming back for the duck season with friends and family. Just like many do for deer hunting.


So should we liberalize laws and the rest of us leave the state and come back as non-res.?


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## shae1986

I used to be like a lot of NR. I used to be like all people from ND only care about themselves, and all that, everything that everyone from that state gives them. But after going to college and meeting people from other states and attending some Natural Resorce Classes, ive learned thta everyone is the same. They will say how their system is so good and dis the other states actions. I found myself doing the same.

There is room for improvement on both sides, and there always will be. Do i look for ND for waterfowling, no, i do fine here in MN. Do I wish that MN would do something about NR fishing, oh not at all, why, its a resorce that is here all the time. I do think that the walleye limit needs to be changed to 4 but thats for another argument another day.

Does ND need to do something about NR waterfowling, yes.

Does ND need to do something about Resident waterfowling habitat, what state doesnt. I do believe this needs to come first. I wish Minnesota would put this on their list of things to do, but MN isn't smart enough to do this.

As some of you know i use to come on here and rip on some NDs for some of the laws and regulations they either wanted or wanted to pass. Sitting here a couple weeks and thinking about them made me think about the laws i would like to see. Some of which i think would help the state some of which would just help the waterfowling and some that would help the waterfowling and hurt the economy.

You NDs have changed me on my thinking and helped it. I like seeing some new good regulations from other states just hoping that Minnesota will some day follow suit. I just hope it is for the better.


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## 4CurlRedleg

Nice post shae1986!! :beer:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken....

No I was just pointing out an obvious reason why NR license sales keep rising.

Alot of the numbers could be that 22 - 24 year old who just graduated college and is trying to figure out his life. He makes return visits back home to see friends and family. And what does his friends and family do.....HUNT.

I know....they don't live hear anymore so who cares right....well I have noticed about three threads that have read.....I AM RETURNING HOME TO ND.

So are you going to start to alienate some people that just don't know what they want or where they want to live and are out exploring life. If they might not have an oppurtunity or a reason to return home and hunt with friends and family....they might not come back as much.....they might start to seek out more outdoor oppurtunities where they have relocated. They might think ND don't want them anymore. Because as an outsider looking in some of these bills and reading some peoples posts are saying "If you don't live in ND....who cares."

Sorry to hi-jack the thread. But some of these bills are saying a big YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED HERE NR HUNTERS. And many of the NR hunters were ND residents once and might return once they retire.


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## KEN W

Chuck,

I was born and raised in Waconia,MN.All my relatives live in Minnesota including 2 daughters raised here in ND.When I am there....I always say....'I'm going home to ND."I don't say...."I'm going home to Mn. next week."Those people including my daughters now have homes in MN and are ND non-res.They should not recieve special treatment just because they were born here.I don't expect that from Minn.

And these bills aren't saying.....YOU ARE NOT WELCOMED HERE NR HUNTERS.They are saying .....We want you to come here and live as a resident and recieve resident privileges.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken....

I have never stated that people who were born in ND and now live elsewhere should recieve specail treatment. What I am saying it that when the state starts to limit NR's they will start to limit family members, friends, etc.

Example:
It would be like a bunch of high school or college buddies that get together for a duck hunt in october in ND. Two of the guys live in ND and the others live elsewhere. Now if you start to limit the NR's then maybe these two won't come to ND anymore. The group could start to drift apart, or pick a different destination....or they might be more inclined to use a g/o because the NR would/could get a gaurntee lisc. Annual outtings and trips would not happen.

That is why I say with some of the proposed bills and post's that NR's read on the net say....NR ARE NOT WELCOMED.


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## MRN

Chuck Smith said:


> It would be like a bunch of high school or college buddies that get together for a duck hunt in october in ND. Two of the guys live in ND and the others live elsewhere. Now if you start to limit the NR's then maybe these two won't come to ND anymore. The group could start to drift apart, or pick a different destination....


Holy c#$%, you watch way too much Oprah.

M.


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## Chuck Smith

MRN......no oprah but a friend that lives in my town was originally from ND and he has been watching this whole debate with the NR/R issues.

He goes back every year and hunts with the same group of guys. They went to High School together. They also were college roommates until two dropped out. But they have been doing this for years.

This guy takes a week to hunt with his friends. Then he goes back a week with his kids to hunt with his father and brother.

How many others does this effect??? has anyone ever thought of this side of the story??


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## MRN

I think your confusing reality with a Lifetime Movie you caught between Oprah and Dr. Phil. Was "your friend" married to Meredith Baxter Birney??


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## Chuck Smith

It just amazes me that I bring up a valid point and show a situation that happens and someone starts to make fun of it because it goes against what they think. :eyeroll: uke:


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## MRN

Ya, you're right. I'm sorry. In our legislative proceess we should all be much more concerned about whether your friends drift apart...

M.


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## Chuck Smith

No it is just a side of the story that might not get heard.

If you don't think stories sway votes.... then look ad M.A.D.D. They use thier storys to sway many legislative things. So again. It is sad that a valid point gets brought up and people have to bash it. :eyeroll:

edit:

So you don't think the leg. should look at ND families. The sons returning to hunt with family. Isn't hunting about tradition, family, unity, values, morals, ethics, friendships, etc.

I know I have learned a lot more in life through hunting than any book or professor has every taught me.


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## Bob Kellam

Chuck


> So you don't think the leg. should look at ND families. The sons returning to hunt with family. Isn't hunting about tradition, family, unity, values, morals, ethics, friendships, etc.





> I know I have learned a lot more in life through hunting than any book or professor has every taught me.


I am one of those people that hunt with old friends that have moved to supposed greener pastures. To a man they all realize that no matter what their roots were they are now NR's. Not one complaint by any of them. In fact they would like to see more limitations. The values you speak about are there whether you are hunting or just visiting. They are not created by hunting.

ND has a big out-migration problem and many move to urban MN. legislation to encourage former residents to come back to hunt will backfire. Heck I would even consider moving in that case. On second thought no I wouldn't but many would.

Bob


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## MRN

> So you don't think the leg. should look at ND families.


I thought your friend, the one married to Meredith Baxter Bierney in the Lifetime movie, the one who felt he was drifting apart, was a NR....



> I know I have learned a lot more in life through hunting than any book or professor has every taught me.


Unsurprisingly, I have no reason to doubt this of your book-learnin'...

M.


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## Dak

I too think I have learned more in life experience's then I have getting a college degree, two masters degrees and completing several doctoral classes. Book learning is far from and end all. If folks want to get the full benefits of residency all they have to do is live here.


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## shae1986

I second more limitations for NR hunters. I wouldnt if this was a state where the birds would stay longer, but for migration birds, you have to limit something.


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## HUNTNFISHND

Chuck,

I guess I just don't understand what you think we should do. Should we allow any former residents to come back without any regulations? That would be impossible to do and still have quality hunting for everyone. There are just way to many former residents.

Don't take this the wrong way, but some of these people need to start thinking about what is more important. Their pay check or there values. Some things in life just cannot or should not be bought. One of these is the ND way of life and our outdoor opportunities.

We definitely need to strike a balance to allow the most NR in while still providing the highest opportunities for all. The hard part is determining where that fine line is each year as conditions change from year to year.


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## Chuck Smith

No things are getting twisted. I have never stated that past R should recieve specail treatment. I was stating an obvious fact....again here it is....ND outmigration is on the rise.....NR lisc sales are on the rise. You see the corrolation. People are coming back to hunt with friends and family.

Now if tighter restrictions on NR's happens. Less people will be able to return.

I think that the limitations that are in effect right now are pretty good for the NR.

I am infavor of leg tags, but not the current bill. Again IMO I think if you have a leg tag restriction on NR hunters that the state should allow X number of tags and have no time periods. With this bill implace now....it they would allow the 20 tags and have no time periods (other than NR can't hunt the R opener) would not be that bad. Possesion limits still apply.

The small games lisc bill implace is a joke if you ask me. They are making it easier for NR to hunt more weekends. If they want to allow more time. Instead of 3 consecutive days....have it 5 and extend the season to 15 with out the option of buying another lisc. Then let the NR break it up how they please, but you need to have 5 consecutive days. The NR could have trips of 9 and 6 days, 7 and 8 days, three 5 days trips or 15 days in a row. Possession limits still apply.

Then with posts about NR caps and who cares if you don't live here. Just drives me crazy.

HERE IS MY FEAR FOR ND: People talk about hard winters, no rain, etc. One thing that will happen if the state does not use the money from license sales, R and NR, to help with habitat, the birds will move or control thier populations themselves to accomidate the habitat. LOOK AT MN.

*One main thing that ND is going to have to look at is more CRP is going to be taken out of production with corn prices and the push for ethonal. *

I have always stated use the NR dollar. Add a $5 fee that goes towards more habitat or enforcement. With the land purchasing laws that don't allown Non-profit groups to buy land (DU Projects, delta projects, PF projects, etc.) and a govenor who shoots down land purchases from a Non-profit group that is looking to help build habitat and what not. You will need to find a new source to help. _Non-profit groups will help land owners with projects but more are looking to buy the land themselves. Because they have been burnt before with doing projects then the owner sells the land and the land gets locked up._

All the restrictions on NR hunters will do nothing for protection or increasing the amount of habitat. It will be like putting a bandaid on a gun shot wound.

Sorry I hi-jacked the thread.

MRN....quit taking cheap shots. It adds nothing to the disscussion.


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## Springerguy

The reason many from MN make an issue out of the ND NR regs versus SD NR regs is that they see thousands of residents from ND fishing here in MN and not that many from SD. According to the stats I received from the MN DNR, in 2006 there were 24,316 NR fishing licenses sold to ND residents. Of that number, 6,500 were either family/couple licenses so an estimate of 30,000+ ND residents fishing in MN is a reasonable estimate. To put it in perspective, over 20% of the season long licenses sold in MN are sold to ND residents.

I don't think those hunting in ND from MN expect to be treated the same as a resident when it comes to fee's and access to licenses that are limited....but I'm beginning to wonder if the laws to limit NR's will ever stop. The leg band law that was proposed comes across as another law to limit NR's. I'm glad it was pulled from the committee.

Now, some of you guys can go ahead and go off on a tangent about fishing isn't hunting, but many believe they are given limited access to public lands in ND ....yet ND residents have unlimited access to MN public waters.


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## Dirt Nap

http://www.in-forum.com/Outdoors/articles/154951

springerguy check out this article.


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## always_outdoors

Dirt Nap: I posted two direct questions at you on page one. I would really like to hear your responses to the questions.

Chuck: Here is my response to the out-migration. My parents taught me about North Dakota and its resources. They also taught me that money isn't everything and that family and life is. That is why myself and my brother have chosen to stay in North Dakota and raise our families while knowing we won't make as much as if we would have headed off to Minneapolis where many of our friends and classmates went.

If the right regulations are not in place, two things suffer.

1. Natural Resources. By allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry here for unlimited times we are killing our resources. Ducks are already showing environmental adaptations. Then there are the in-direct effects such as: more leased land, increased absentee landowners who take land out of agricultural production (which in turns hurts this state and its family farms), increased out-migration of not only our youth, but many of us as well (if i can't hunt here, then why stay here?) and many other in-direct results.

2. Out-migration of our youth. By protecting our natural resources and showing ND residents that they get what they deserve for living here, paying taxes here, giving back to their communities here, we are showing our youth and our people that we want our way of life to stay the same. It shows our respect for our family farms.

Two very close friends of mine chose to leave the state when we graduated. Both would dearly love to come back. We have talked about this in length. Like one said, "I can't give up the money to come back, but you were right in staying."

I don't feel sorry for the sons and daugthers that are choosing to leave this state. They should not get the same privileges as me who has dedicated himself to this state and everyone else who has too.

I just returned home from taking my family to Arizona. The family we stayed with wants us to come and live there and even went as far as finding multiple jobs for us down there to apply for. Many of which both my wife and I were highly qualified for (both have master's degrees) and pay was much better. Housing costs are less to build than ND right now ($105/sq foot versus $145/sq foot in ND).

My answer was simple. No. And my wife agreed. Our son will be raised right here with a shotgun in one hand and the bag of decoys in the other.


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## Straycat

live2hunt,

Well said!

I still don't get the _"walleyes & waterfowl"_ comparison our friends to the east keep speaking of. Apples and apricots. I don't fish over there anymore since to ND/MN lawsuit.


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## Dirt Nap

live2hunt: 
I once was a R in ND moved to a border town in MN and spend a lot of money in ND and get taxed for several things in ND but I have to be restricted on what days I hunt in ND and have to pay a lot more. There has to be restrictions for NR and I know there is no way to monitor NR on border cities. I don't think I should get as much rights as a R, but something needs to be done.

The only reason I am on this site is because I have started my own site and was looking at this one to get ideas. This subject caught my eye and since it is the US and we all have the right to freedom of speech I shared mine.

I believe springerguy had a good response, when are the laws going to stop against NR?


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## always_outdoors

Dirt Nap: I used to live on a border town near SD, should I get resident privileges there? How come I can only hunt 10 days down there and I have to apply for lottery on waterfowl?

Sorry man, but that just doesn't cut it for me. You chose to move. You don't deserve the same privileges. If that was the case then we would then be promoting out-migration.

It comes back to "I want my cake and eat it too" mentality.


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## Straycat

Okay where is the line to be drawn? Should ND extend resident privileges to people to say within 50 miles of the border? 100 miles? Perhaps to all the states that border North Dakota? 

Let's examine the fishing and waterfowl hunting comparison that many to our east are quick to bring up. Apples to Apples and Oranges to Oranges.

Fishing in North Dakota - Nonresidents are allowed to fish with the appropriate license on all public waters. Annual licenses are available. Have to follow daily and possession limits. Fish are plentiful and a great experience.

Fishing in Minnesota - North Dakota residents are allowed to fish with the appropriate license on all public waters. Annual licenses are available. Have to follow daily and possession limits. Fish are plentiful and a great experience.

Waterfowl hunting in North Dakota - Nonresidents are allowed to hunt 14 days with appropriate license and are restricted to zone of choosing and not allowed to hunt the first week of the season. Waterfowl, habitat and access are plentiful and is a great experience.

Waterfowl Hunting in Minnesota - North Dakota residents are allowed to hunt with the appropriate license in accordance with the current DNR restrictions. No location restrictions. Waterfowl, habitat and access are available, but limited. Too many hunters, resident waterfowl numbers and habitat are declining. Migration patterns have shifted. Not much of a draw for nonresident (or resident) waterfowl hunters.

My point here is that those who wish to criticize North Dakota's laws really need to look at their own situation in their own state. Help change your own situation in your state and make it better for yourselves. Don't wait for George to do it for you, he got kicked in the head last week and is gone. We are indeed fortunate in ND to have what we have, however it is changing and not for the better. Our drought conditions here are not going away soon. We are trying to preserve the resource for everyone's use. There has to be limits.

I have always welcomed NR's, but after reading many of the posts since the last hunting season, my opinion is starting to change.

Keep the wind at your back.


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## tclark4140

bob thanks for the info. been coming to n.d. for years from iowa did that report say how many iowa hunters arrived for the duck season. thanks


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## Dirt Nap

Stray Cat: I would hope you welcome NR hunters. Imagine how much money the small towns would be losing if none of us ever came back during the hunting seasons.

Live2hunt: I agree there is now way to keep track, like I said before I agreed with springer guy, when is it going to stop?


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## northdakotakid

the truth of the matter is that you are not going to make everyone happy. You will not have "the right answer" for everyone... but what we can do is start to ask "the right questions".

This is what we need to do, the right questions will lead us down the right path toward a decision that is fair to all parties... not necessarily the "right answer" for all parties.

The fact is, like anything else ND has a liimited number of natural resources. And like any other state, they have to protect them by conserving them. I have such a hard time with people looking past that and simply stating that their friendships or relationships will be disrupted by a change. That is absolutely selfish whether you are a resident or a non-resident.

If you want to be guaranteed the Priveldge to hunt in North Dakota... simply become a resident... it is that easy guys. We would love to have you here !!!


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## Straycat

Risking another whizzing match on this topic and with whatever respect I can muster for his comment, I must say that Dirt Nap misses my point.

Our communities will do fine without relying on NR funds during the fall contrary to what our state tourism department wishes you all to believe. They did so 10 years ago and will do so in the future. You folks can present facts and figures all you wish about how your contribution is the savior for our economies, however it still is pale to what we residents invest, contribute and sacrifice for here. I wish hunting and fishing would quit being marketed as economic development here in North Dakota. :eyeroll:

Please start to invest your time, energy and funds in your habitat and resources in your home states not complaining about us residents and our laws.

I'm done with this debate until something more substantive is presented on solutions and not just arguing with each other.


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## goosebusters

What I think is ridiculous is how many NR's spend all this money to come to North Dakota to hunt then just go right across the border to like Kelly's Slough a place with 100 hunters and 2 ducks. The thing that I think is so funny is that these Minnesotans just drove through some really good duck and goose areas to get to WPAs around Grand Forks. I had some of my best hunts for geese in Minnesota and I hate to post this up, but there was next to know hunting pressure. I could get permission for almost every field. I even decoyed in around 300 birds in one flock to only shoot 2 birds a piece.

Since NRs took most of the good hunting opportunities away close to town I now travel over the bridge to Minnesota my new Sportsman's paradise.


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## Dirt Nap

Live2Hunt are you saying towns like Regent, Mott, Rugby, Devils Lake, and etc aren't not profiting from NR's? I would completely disagree.

I am happy to say I do hunt in my own state and go North of ND to hunt Canada.


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## Dirt Nap

Live2Hunt are you saying towns like Regent, Mott, Rugby, Devils Lake, and etc are not profiting from NR's? I would completely disagree. Do you think CRP is only paid by residents also?

I am happy to say I do hunt in my own state and go North of ND to hunt Canada.


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## Dirt Nap

http://www.startribune.com/531/story/985364.html

It doesn't look like hunting will be good in any state in the future according to this article. I guess we should all start to concentrate buying up land so all the CRP isn't mowed down to plant corn.


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## always_outdoors

> Live2Hunt are you saying towns like Regent, Mott, Rugby, Devils Lake, and etc are not profiting from NR's? I would completely disagree.


Where are getting this from? I went back and looked at the posts I presented, but I will answer as best as I can from your question.

Is there an economic stimulus from NR's hunting? yes. Do we need NR's? yes. No-where have I stated we should ban them all together. I believe we need to manage the resource based on biology and not dollar signs.

As for the towns you have listed. Tell me or show me business'es besides g/o's that have flurrished because of NR money??? There is no building in Regent or Mott because of NR's.

Want to try Napoleon or Gackle? I lived and worked in those communties. All of the NR's and the only ones flurrishing are the g/o's. Just ask the county auditor how many homes Sheldon Schlecht owns. There are no new buildings/businesses because NR's are flocking to Gackle to hunt.



> Do you think CRP is only paid by residents also?


 So you think you are entitled to CRP as well.....I am not commenting on this one, but maybe you could tell the farmers here in ND that you should have rights to their CRP. That always goes over well here. :wink:

I am not sure what kind of a point you are trying to make. It seems like you are still whining because you believe that since you once lived in ND, that you are entitled to our resources. Maybe I am wrong, but it appears that way.

It also appears you are stretching for things to call me out on. I have no problems debating you here, but so the post stays on topic, you may want to PM me instead.

FYI: NDSU did the study Dirt Nap. Residents spend more money than the NR's do. Food for thought.


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## goosebusters

:beer:


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## cedarsedge

Here we go again :eyeroll:

Dan


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## Triple B

nobody really wants to argue this issue, but if it wasn't a problem then we wouldn't need to address it. many NR's don't see the problem here, maybe its ignorance, maybe its lack of knowledge, whatever the issue there is indeed a problem and its not going away by doing nothing.


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## cedarsedge

From past posts I think Triple B wants to put up the North Dakota wall.

Dan


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## Triple B

cedarsedge said:


> From past posts I think Triple B wants to put up the North Dakota wall.
> 
> Dan


not quite sure where you get that??? if you've read my previous posts in other threads you will see i am not anti NR, I am only pro-cap, so what are you trying to say??


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## deadduck6

WHAT DO MEAN BY PRO CAP?


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## always_outdoors

I am guessing he means that he supports a cap of NR's based on what the resource can handle. I also agree with this as well. If the resource can handle 30,000 NR's and 20,000 R's, then that is where the cap should be. If the resource can handle 5,000 NR's then that is what the cap should be.

Then we are basing the amount of pressure on waterfowl because the biology says so and not because of dollar signs.

Right now we are not doing that and the residents of ND are seeing drastic changes occurring. Add that to the evironmental adaptations that are occurring with our waterfowl.

The fact is, what is happening is not working and if both R's and NR's want the same quality hunting that is taking place now, things have to change. Otherwise I fear as many other Residents AND Non-residents do that there won't be this kind of hunting in the near future for ANY of us.

You have to ask yourself do you want the hunting now OR do you want it now and for the future???


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## Springerguy

I don't think the cry for caps has anything to do with what the "resource" can handle. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the statistics support record number of geese and a near record number of pheasants. Yes, duck populations have decreased but I'm assuming the biologists would credit the increase and subsequent decrease on the water levels - a record wet cycle followed by dry cyle. Call it what it is - a problem with access to hunting land. I agree that access to the landscape has change significantly over the years - but it's been a gradual change and the number of no hunting signs isn't going to change - even if you put up a wall to keep NR's out. The past several years we've seen many laws change regarding the approach to NR's - has this increased your access???? If it's all about managing the "resource" I'd enjoy reading the documentation. I've hunted in ND since the 70's and I can tell you the "good ole' days" are right now - plenty of deer, pheasants, geese, and ducks (if you consider the past 20+ years). I'd worry more about the future of the CRP program than I would about NR's.

Funny how the NR's seem to take the brunt for the leased land and g/o business - although relatives of mine that run a g/o operation in SE ND seem to get most of their business out of Fargo.


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## Jungda99

I just don't get how capping NRs is "managing" the resource? It may be managing land access but thats about it. NRs arn't out damaging habitat while ducks are breeding/hatching. NRs arn't out filling in wetlands to build houses/shopping centers. I am not saying Rs hunters are damaging it either but i just don't see how the NRs are damaging the "resource".

Do you really think that capping NRs in ND is going allow that many more ducks live untill next year? I don't think so. Just becuase NRs can't come here doesn't mean they will quit hunting. THey will go elswhere and boost that economy and shoot just as many birds in some other state resulting in roughly the same number of birds making it until next year. Right?

Lowering bag limits WILL directly affect the number of birds living until next year. Capping NRs in ND will not affect the number of birds living until next year which is what we are all looking to do.

I think we should spend our time arguing about who has the best hen house design rather than this!

I have hunted in ND for a bout 5 years now and the NR #s has hovered around 25-30,000 during those years. I have NOT ONCE been disapointed after a hunt. I have NEVER had any type of an encounter in ND. I have NEVER not hunted becuase I couldn't find a spot. Just because we don't get our "1" spot doesn't mean we can't have a quality hunt. Only a few times have I even heard gun shots from other hunters. I see lots of people driving to and from spots but rarely are we huting in the same spot.

I am not looking for a fight just curious how capping NRs will "manage" the resource?

If my thought process is way off base then please enlighten me? Thanks


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## always_outdoors

> I just don't get how capping NRs is "managing" the resource?


Here is why....

Pressure on the resource is producing environmental adaptations in migration patterns. We are starting to see the changes now, hence why the subject is being brought up. Look at the duck staging and migratory reports from Canada to the south. Look at the number of hunters from Canada south. You will see the correlation as do we here because we live here throughout the season.



> It may be managing land access but thats about it.


No. This is an issue, but not the only issue.



> Do you really think that capping NRs in ND is going allow that many more ducks live untill next year?


Who said this and where?? Capping based on biology looks at making sure ducks are here for the future for ALL OF US.



> Just becuase NRs can't come here doesn't mean they will quit hunting. THey will go elswhere and boost that economy and shoot just as many birds in some other state resulting in roughly the same number of birds making it until next year.


OK, let's say we just continue like we are now and those ducks environmentally adapt even further and bypass ND altogether. Where you are NR's going next? SD only allows 7000 NR's for waterfowl. Do you plan on getting on their site telling them how to run the state as well?? Telling them that caps don't work?

As far as boosting the economy....20 years ago ND didn't seem to have this problem because resident hunters took care of this issue. Just because the tourism department thinks so, doesn't mean we can't take care of them now. I used to make many trips to Mott instead of your 10 day or 14 day hunt. Now I don't altogether because of access. The money thing you all throw out is really a moot point.



> I have hunted in ND for a bout 5 years now and the NR #s has hovered around 25-30,000 during those years. I have NOT ONCE been disapointed after a hunt. I have NEVER had any type of an encounter in ND. I have NEVER not hunted becuase I couldn't find a spot.


Right now that is the case, but many fear this won't happen with the changes we are seeing. Bear in mind biologists as well as us residents are seeing the change. Would you like to hunt another 20 years here or should we help the changes even more so you can move onto another state?



> If my thought process is way off base then please enlighten me?


IMHO just a little off base. I think if you lived here and were accepting of the information biologists are telling us, then you would feel the same way as many of us do.


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## Jungda99

You have made some good points and I thank you for that!!

But... do you think that the ducks migration will shift due to hunting preassure? To a certain extent yes! but I think housing, shopping centers, highways, diminishing CRP and wetlands will cause them to shift much faster than pressure will.

I don't feel MN flyway shifted due to hunting pressure it believe that it was due to loss of habitat and food along the MIssissippi.

IMO i think that the # of waterfowl hunters is at its peak right now becuase "baby boomers" are still able to hunt and take there kids with. Baby boomers will soon give up duck hunting if they havn't already just due to the fact that it is so hard on the body when your 60-70 years old. I saw on the news the other night that we will have more people retiring next year than we will have enrolled in our schools. Thats crazy!!

Each generation is having less and less children which in turn means less people to pass the heritage down too. We can't just walk out the backdoor and hunt ducks like we used too. Kids growing up in cities are more likely to play sports than go hunting just because of the cost/time. So IMO duck hunter #s will start to fall off in the next 10 years.

But who knows in 10 years DL might be a suburb of Fargo/grandforks

Now that will shift the migration!


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## Dirt Nap

Never said that businesses flourish or new developments would be poping up all over because of NR's, but I have a feeling it would effect them financially. I was just naming towns not to say for example. I know the weeks I did spend in ND in several towns I had to stay at some place and eat some where. I did spend several hunting seasons in Kenmare and there were plenty of NR there for the goose fest, I am sure that weekend helps out that town significantly. I would like to think other NR's aren't just traveling there for the day; they are spending plenty of money in towns across ND the two weeks they are allowed. Is the study out of NDSU based on time R and NR hunt during the whole season or just two weeks for NR? If it is based on the whole season it would be off because NR are only there a fraction of the time R are. As for CRP you would have to be an idiot to go up to a farmer and say you are helping him/her pay for that. Just making a point that CRP is paid by the gov't and everyones taxes.


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## nerlande

I agree with Dirt Nap. The only reason many towns in ND are still even dots on a map are because of NR-they bring a lot of $$ into towns that residents do not.

Look into the most recent census bureau info on ND---very few people are moving into the state, everybody is leaving.

ND needs NR more then they need ND, enough said.


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## 870 XPRS

nerlande said:


> ND needs NR more then they need ND, enough said.


WOW!!!


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## Straycat

Unbelievable..... :eyeroll: I would like you to say that to some of the residents of our small communities.

You guys have finally solidified my opinion of NR's.

You just don't get it.


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## always_outdoors

whaaaa whaaaa 

I want my cake and eat it too! whaaa whaaa 

I spend money! Give me my hunting! whaaa whaaa 

2nd post nerlande??? I suppose you have been busy on the SD outdoor websites chewing on them about how their restrictions are tougher than ND.


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## Heavy Hitter

nerlande said:


> ND needs NR more then they need ND, enough said.


I generally stay out of these wizzing matches but this right here takes the cake... uke: uke: uke:


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## Dirt Nap

i believe the ducks were down last year were because of the drought. the migration will shift based on water levels and land development not because of pressure. i do agree there has to be restricitions. like i said before when will it stop for nr?


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## Bob Kellam

Be nice guys :lol:

Education will portray the message better than a shouting match. This topic has been discussed over and over and over. All of the material is on this site to make your case. do a little searching and you will find it.

Just don't have time right now to do it.

Bob


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## always_outdoors

> like i said before when will it stop for nr?


When the right measures are in place to make sure that waterfowl hunting for both R's and NR's will continue into the future here in ND.



> the migration will shift based on water levels and land development not because of pressure.


And what will you say 10 years from now when the research proves what we have been trying to say to you and you don't make trips to ND to hunt anymore? Will you tell us you were wrong? Will you still be waving your wallet in front of us then?


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## Straycat

live2hunt,

Quit wasting your air on these guys. You have presented everything correct and accurate. The NR's either won't or don't want to hear it.

I believe it was Mark Twain that said "People are the greatest experts on things they know absolutely nothing about." This is the case here. Let's move on.

Keep the wind at your back.


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## Dirt Nap

i already don't make trips to ND based on the increased restrictions. look at the migration levels of snow geese in kenmare nd, they stopped stopping there because of food, water levels, and habitat. look at the migration the past few years they stay just north of the border and almost skip ND altogether.


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## Triple B

straycat, live2hunt, you guys know what you are talking about, I too know whats going on and believe me I'm with ya 100%, but there are too many scmucks on here that are 1) too damned ignorant to want to believe it 2) do not live here and see what we see and are uneducated as to what is really happening, or 3) just don't care enough about the future of waterfowling in our state. like I said earlier if nothing is done, just wait about 10 years, they'll see. but then again why the hell would they care, they'll just go somewhere else and take a dump on them too.


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## Springerguy

I'm still waiting to see the research supporting how the migration patterns have changed due to the hunting pressure in ND. I actually went and used google to search for these studies, since you said the biologists are saying this.........couldn't find anything. Yeah, the snow geese are staying in Canada longer but I think you'd find that is probably due to more agriculture then years ago plus it's dependent on the weather. I had some superb goose hunting in SE ND this year - didn't look like the pattern had shifted any to me - and I grew up hunting geese in SE ND in the 70's and 80's. Sorry, but I can't buy your argument that NR's need to be limited since they are hurting the resource. Call a spade a spade, you guys don't want NR's in the state because you think they're responsible for the no hunting signs or they're hunting on your "public" land.

As far as the state economy getting hurt by the lack of NR's - it wouldn't be a blip on the radar for most small towns. Yeah, the hotels might feel it but that whole commerce thing is overblown in my opinion.

One thing that I've noticed that has changed over the years. Back some years ago if land was posted you'd have a better chance getting on the land with a ND license plate. I'm not sure that is the case any longer. We didn't have much of a problem finding places to hunt, even though most everything is posted. Of course, growing up in the area we hunt certainly doesn't hurt besides having more than a few relatives.

When SD sends 30,000+ over here to MN....fishing on our lakes, littering our landings, buying up lake homes, and causing the state to institute slot limits due to the stress on the "resource" - then I'll hop on their websites and bother them about equal access. Access to public lands is "apples to apples".


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## deadduck6

i realize this is a touchy subject with res. and non/res. , but let me tell a little story,
i live in ohio and the southern basin of lake erie used to be a walleye mecca.7 to 10 pounders were common.AND EVEYBODY KNEW IT.
so did the ohio dept. of natural resources or (ODNR)and they were loving it.it was bringing in big bucks res. and non res. were flocking to catch these trophy fish.then one day someone said ''we used to catch 7-10 pounders now we catch 2-4 pounders'' what happened?then the ODNR said
UH OH....thats right the supply of 7-10s were being crushed.now whos fault is it?its not the res. or the non/res.its ODNRs.they said sure come in and fish till your fingers fall off....WHY?....MONEY,MONEY,MONEY.
why did i share this story?
basically i understand were the res. of ND are going with this.but blaming the non/res is not the solution.laws are laws and they are put in place by ND FISH AND GAME.
now with that being said.....
i donot live there year round and i can not see what the res. are seeing.
so i am taking your word that there is an issue,is the issue because of so many non/res the res. are losing hunting spots,bad run ins with non/res.
or worried about the waterfowling in ND.in truth probably alittle of all 3.
but the waterfowling in ND is the biggest.
if there was less non/res all 3 would be accomplished.
i just think we are beating a dead horse......its all about the money and not the resource.however in saying that if a cap was put in and i didnt get drawn i would be devastated,i look forward so much to going to ND in the fall.yes we shoot some ducks , but the trip itself is so much fun.
i hope this issue gets resolved with both sides agreeing on what really matters.

craig


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## Dirt Nap

i agree the geese don't come across the border is because of the ag in CA, the farmers don't double til the land and that leaves more feed in the fields. a lot of migration is also based off sun light besides weather also.


----------



## Dirt Nap

I agree with springerguy on the walleye issue MN is facing. why else would slot limits become such a popular issue in MN lakes in the past 5 years.


----------



## always_outdoors

Why I don't let this go is beyond me...



> a lot of migration is also based off sun light besides weather also.


I am not even sure what point you are trying to make here. The amount of sunlight on October 13th, 1977 wasn't any if little different than the amount of sunlight on October 13th, 2006.

Do you do any research before posting or just throw out thoughts???



> I agree with springerguy on the walleye issue MN is facing.


So go ahead and restrict NR's from coming into MN to fish. Heck, tax lake homes owned by NR's at a higher rate. You know what the difference will be?? ND residents won't go whining about it on your outdoor website.


----------



## northdakotakid

I think another important point to consider on the NR spend issue is this...

with as many NR hunters buying land, houses, etc... the amount of money that they are spending has actually decreased on the variable side and increased on the fixed side. So with that being said... I would be interested to see how this ahs affected overall spend patterns since there is no longer as much variable spend (lodging, gas, food, etc).

By buying "fixed" assets I am interested how this affects:
*
1. Spend Pattern (types, amounts, timing)
2. Income Patterns (by taking income producing properties out of production by purchasing these assets)
3. Affect on natural resources (both positive & negative since usage patterns have changed)*

I offer no answers to these questions but I will explain my rationale if this does not become a pissing match.

It seems that this topic has moved to the far left(Rights for everyone) and the far right(rights for only ND). These are not quantifiable and will not ever be solved for, but we can look at impacts that can be measured.

What are your thoughts?


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com

northdakotakid said:


> What are your thoughts?


That this discussion will never end. I wonder how many threads like this come up in a year. I like the ideas that can come out through calm discussion. It allows new ideas that haven't already been addressed many times before.


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## Dirt Nap

So go ahead and restrict NR's from coming into MN to fish. Heck, tax lake homes owned by NR's at a higher rate. You know what the difference will be?? ND residents won't go whining about it on your outdoor website.

live2hunt that is what started this whole argument. i asked why doesn't mn figure it out and tax more nr on lake homes, fishing license, and launching a boat in mn PUBLIC waters? I guarentee MN would hear it from ND resisdents if it were on a web site or any where else. I really wish they would start taxing more for NR using our public lakes and restricting the fishing so there aren't as many slot limits. the way i see it is pretty much the same thing as waterfowl hunting in nd and restricting nr. mn doesn't do this and there aren't nearly as many restrictions to nr in mn for fishing. quoted from some one ealier i guess nd nr just don't get why mn r are upset about mn public waters when all you see is nd on all the boats around you in mn fishing waters. maybe some day nr will figure out why mn r are mad that our public waters are easy to get on to and we are very restricted to get access to other states resources.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Dirt Nap said:


> Heck, tax lake homes owned by NR's at a higher rate.


I'm not going to start an argument but MN already does tax NR's a higher property tax in MN.


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## Dirt Nap

i was just quoting what live2hunt said above. the tax rate is not that much higher than r. if it was mn would for sure hear about it.


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## Dirt Nap

i was just quoting what live2hunt said above. the tax rate is not that much higher than r. if it was mn would for sure hear about it. what if mn started to charge nd r $100 a day to put there boat on the water, what do think would happen?


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## always_outdoors

> what if mn started to charge nd r $100 a day to put there boat on the water, what do think would happen?


Nothing, the boats would come west to Devils Lake, Lake Sakakawea, and the Missouri River. Thus leading to more money being spent in small town ND by its residents.



> if it was mn would for sure hear about it.


I don't think we would cry and whine like you all are doing.

Dirt Nap: I hope you are contacting your legislators in MN to help push some of this through. I support your efforts.


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## Dirt Nap

yeah maybe the r in nd that don't own lake homes already would go to those lakes you listed, but what would the nr who own property on mn lakes do?

live2hunt i don't think you would be happy until there is a wall around nd.


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## always_outdoors

Dirt Nap: This is getting tiring...



> live2hunt i don't think you would be happy until there is a wall around nd.


Now where did I say that? Go back and re-read my posts. Never once have I said that.

dirt nap i don't think you would be happy until you get your cake and eat it too.

Now how about bringing something to the plate? Do some research instead of just whining all the time. Bring some substance to the table. I have provided it, but you seem to keep wanting to dig a hole.


----------



## Triple B

live2hunt said:


> Dirt Nap: This is getting tiring...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> live2hunt i don't think you would be happy until there is a wall around nd.
> 
> 
> 
> Now where did I say that? Go back and re-read my posts. Never once have I said that.
> 
> dirt nap i don't think you would be happy until you get your cake and eat it too.
> 
> Now how about bringing something to the plate? Do some research instead of just whining all the time. Bring some substance to the table. I have provided it, but you seem to keep wanting to dig a hole.
Click to expand...

I do believe that was a slam dunk! :beer:


----------



## Dirt Nap

live2hunt just stating a simple fact that it seems really one sided on the restrictions for certain resources between the two states. i really find it hard to believe nd r wouldn't do all this whinning and crying you say i am doing if some tighter restrictions were but on mn waters. but you are the master researcher so why don't you do some research and get back to me on what the future holds ohh great one.


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## Springerguy

live2hunt -

So I'm arrogant because I make posts contradicting your opinion on this site? - sorry, I didn't realize this site was exclusive to ND residents. I've remained open minded and am still waiting for the research stating that the resources in ND need to be managed via limiting NR's. I sense you're the kinda guy that thinks us NR's should mind our own business since we don't live in ND. Do you follow that same line with respecting g/o's right to lease land or work as a guide? Just curious, since you don't think it's my business to involve my opinion in ND I'd guess you would also not stick your nose into his affairs. By the way, I do check the MN website often as well......and you'd be hard pressed to find any of those guys complaining about the NR's. In fact, the guys I hang out with don't even mention limiting NR's even though the lakes are facing pressure - the focus here has been towards getting dedicated funding which has been an ongoing battle. The political landscape is much different with the Twin Cities an urban area - but hopefully we'll get it passed this year and start pumping some badly needed money into the DNR.

Chris - I'm not positive, but I believe the property taxes are the same for MN and ND residents here in MN. However, if you don't homestead the property the taxes are much higher -- but that applies equally to both MN and ND residents.


----------



## Dirt Nap

Live2hunt one thing that disappoints me is that a lot of ND R are buying up property around lakes in MN and raising the property value. I just wonder why ND R are not buying up property around those lakes you listed? Why would anyone want to buy property around Devils Lake it is continually expanding and flooding. ND R do pay more property taxes but it is not enough to effect them from continuing to come to MN. Face the fact there is not a whole lot of lakes for ND R to own property around. Another thing is that ND is in the migration of the birds, MN raises and plants millions of walleyes to put in each lake in the state. Does ND raise and plant millions of waterfowl through out the state? Wait I will answer that for you, they do some but the MAJORITY of the birds just MIRGRATE through your great state. Can ND R wonder why us MN R think the restrictions are one sided? I have been a R of both states and realize the pros and cons of both, but you have to be blind to see that is not one sided restriction between the states. Live2hunt you are the great researcher give me some dollar facts between MN raising and planting walleyes vs. ND raising and planting waterfowl in the state. Remember that waterfowl migrates through out the nation and the fish and lakes remain in MN. I have a feeling you will find the answer why MN R are not happy about all the restrictions.


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## Triple B

oranges and apples my friend, its pretty damn hard to compare the two(fish and waterfowl)heres the dilema i'm faced with, We(Ndakotans) don't ***** about what you do, whether it be restrictions, or laws on how you govern your affairs in MN, we accept the fact that it is the MN's decision on how to govern their own, we willingly accept that and take what we are offered, so why does everyother mike, tom and harry from MN need to ***** and moan about how NDakotan's thinks we should run our state??????????????? I guarantee you start a forum on here about MN fishing restrictions and no one from here would give a rats ***. we take what we can get, when will all this political BS from MN end???


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## Springerguy

TripleB,

I don't think anyone from ND has a reason to complain about the MN regs, which is why noone for ND would be whining about MN regs - seems to me MN treats NR's more than fair, you can come here with your family and fish all year for $47. I'm not going to go through all the regs but you can pretty much hunt here with the same opportunity as a R.

Someone asked why the MN R don't complain about SD and I gave my honest opinion - there isn't a high number of SD residents fishing in MN. You can say it isn't apples to apples but when you go out on Ottertail lake and bump into ND boats it only makes sense that someone familiar with the changes to ND laws could be offended.

If the low water continues you won't have to worry - it will be back to the way it was 10 yrs ago.


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## always_outdoors

> Live2hunt one thing that disappoints me is that a lot of ND R are buying up property around lakes in MN and raising the property value.


I am sure those property values have nothing to do with the thousands of vehicles I see traveling north at 25 mph on I-94 just outside of the Twin Cities at 4:30 pm on a Friday in July. It is all ND's fault for those property values. uke:



> MN raises and plants millions of walleyes to put in each lake in the state. Does ND raise and plant millions of waterfowl through out the state? Wait I will answer that for you, they do some but the MAJORITY of the birds just MIRGRATE through your great state. Can ND R wonder why us MN R think the restrictions are one sided? I have been a R of both states and realize the pros and cons of both, but you have to be blind to see that is not one sided restriction between the states.


You cannot compare apples to oranges here. I am not the one that is blind here. It should be somewhat one sided. We live here, we pay taxes here. Why should you have the same benefits as us just because waterfowl migrate through the state?

There are so many holes in what you say it is almost embarrassing.

Waterfowl: They migrate through ND. We can't magically plant them here in the state. If we manage this resource in-correctly we could alter the migration patterns and nobody benefits from this. Not only that, we could end up endangering the species because of these envirnomental effects.

Fishing: A much different item than waterfowl. The MN DNR or the ND GNF can stock lakes according to pressure on the resource. They may choose slot limits based on the reproduction analysis from year to year and ecological session that the lake may be in at that time.

This is why you can't compare the two. I don't think I am the one that is blind here. But just so you know I majored in wildlife biology and range science in college with a minor in soils. My background has been based on the prairie pothole soils (hydric soils) of ND, plant management for the production of wildlife, ecology, and agriculture. I spent 5 years with USFWS researching waterfowl, shoreline, and small birds, 1 with the US Forest Service managing rangeland for wildlife production, 1/2 year with NRSC, and 9 months with ND GnF as a volunteer.

Now. Do some research before you post. MN receives on average 10" more precipitation than ND with the exception of the Red River Valley. You are the land with 10,000 lakes. In 1945 you MN shot 1.5 million pheasants and probably twice that in ducks. It is obvious that the MN sportsmen and women didn't stand up and fight for their widlife resources and allowed it down the tube....hence why the migration pattern which is an environmental adaptation took place.

Now MN sportsmen want their cake and eat it too over here in ND. They want to fight for their hunting here? But how come not there? Sure there are the Chuck's over there trying to fight, but tell me what have you done to talk with MN legislators?

The migration pattern adapted in MN and now you don't want to believe us when we are seeing an adaptation here. AND I am the one who is blind?????

I really hope you read this and take this in. Read the post above that I wrote as well. Take it in. ND needs to manage the resource based on biology and not on dollar signs and certainly not based on what MN sportsmen say.

Dirt Nap. I am not responding anymore to this post. I believe I have said enough and given enough creditible evidence as to why we need to manage the resources in the way I believe.

Good luck to you with your ideas and thoughts.


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## Dirt Nap

Live2hunt I may be no biologist but have you ever driven around any lakes in the DL, Perm, or Fergus Falls area it seems like every other cabin is owned by a R of ND; does it take a biology major to figure out the fishing pressure in those lakes are coming from NR? I never said Twin City R don't drive up prices also, atleast they pay taxes in the state. Why do you think MN has implemented so many slot limits in resent years on lakes, because of pressure from R and a lot of NR fishing here because of the cheap NR license that is not limited to a time period. Fishing is a resource in MN like hunting is a resource in ND. I am no politician but I wouldn't be surprised if something did not happen soon since their has been more discussions about the pressure on the lakes. Why do NR come to MN, to fish; Why do NR go to ND to hunt. Who do you think is paying for the majority of the fish to be stocked? I can't wait for the day MN does something about the all the NR lauching boats or jumping up the licenses and limiting them to certain time period. I am sure we would hear plenty from our neighbors to the west of us. Until then I guess I am SOL and I can only write letters to MN leg and b!tch about it on this site.


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## Triple B

seriously, for last time, enough with the damn fishing analogy!


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## averyghg

:withstupid: haha


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## Springerguy

live2hunt,

Your comments about managing waterfowl to ensure the migration patterns aren't altered is hardly founded in any reseach I've read. Of course, when I used google to reseach the migration adaptation due to hunting I did get a hit that directed me to PETA's website. Probably not the place for quality research. Again, I'd love to read the study that states the migration patteren shifted from MN to ND because MN didn't manage the resources in 1945. Development and ag have certainly caused a decline in habitat but it didn't shift any migration.

By the way, as a biologist well versed in wild game population cycles I would suggest you take a look at the CRP acreage in ND and the correlating impact on wildlife populations. Your near record upland harvet isn't the result of your passing regs to limit NR's and, even if you did outlaw NR's, it wouldn't have any long term impact on wildlife populations. Call it what it is - you want to limit NR's so you can have more places to hunt for yourself. Trying to sell me on limiting NR's to preserve the "resource" is nothing but bunk. From my perspective, it seems like most of the energy by the "city" guys in ND is focused on creating laws to give them access to hunting land and has nothing to do with long term management of the resource. Certainly can't blame them for that but don't sell yourself as the next Aldo Leopold pushing for these limits to manage the resource or ensure migration patterns aren't altered.


----------



## Goldy's Pal

live2hunt said:


> I am guessing he means that he supports a cap of NR's based on what the resource can handle. I also agree with this as well. If the resource can handle 30,000 NR's and 20,000 R's, then that is where the cap should be. If the resource can handle 5,000 NR's then that is what the cap should be.
> 
> Then we are basing the amount of pressure on waterfowl because the biology says so and not because of dollar signs.
> 
> Right now we are not doing that and the residents of ND are seeing drastic changes occurring. Add that to the evironmental adaptations that are occurring with our waterfowl.
> 
> The fact is, what is happening is not working and if both R's and NR's want the same quality hunting that is taking place now, things have to change. Otherwise I fear as many other Residents AND Non-residents do that there won't be this kind of hunting in the near future for ANY of us.
> 
> You have to ask yourself do you want the hunting now OR do you want it now and for the future???


live2hunt, nicely put and I agree (with most of your info..)  It would be nice to see improvement in quality hunts there. I also think it would be interesting to see how the problem with illegal guiding has an effect on not just the pressure on the resource but on the grand scheme of where hunting is now and where it's headed. It needs to be stopped.


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## Jungda99

Springerguy said:


> live2hunt,
> 
> Your comments about managing waterfowl to ensure the migration patterns aren't altered is hardly founded in any reseach I've read. Of course, when I used google to reseach the migration adaptation due to hunting I did get a hit that directed me to PETA's website. Probably not the place for quality research. Again, I'd love to read the study that states the migration patteren shifted from MN to ND because MN didn't manage the resources in 1945. Development and ag have certainly caused a decline in habitat but it didn't shift any migration.
> 
> By the way, as a biologist well versed in wild game population cycles I would suggest you take a look at the CRP acreage in ND and the correlating impact on wildlife populations. Your near record upland harvet isn't the result of your passing regs to limit NR's and, even if you did outlaw NR's, it wouldn't have any long term impact on wildlife populations. Call it what it is - you want to limit NR's so you can have more places to hunt for yourself. Trying to sell me on limiting NR's to preserve the "resource" is nothing but bunk. From my perspective, it seems like most of the energy by the "city" guys in ND is focused on creating laws to give them access to hunting land and has nothing to do with long term management of the resource. Certainly can't blame them for that but don't sell yourself as the next Aldo Leopold pushing for these limits to manage the resource or ensure migration patterns aren't altered.


 :beer: :beer: :beer: Well said


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## jhegg

*Springerguy, Jungda99, Dirt Nap* and the rest of you who visit our state in the fall to enjoy our excellent waterfowl hunting,

Can you understand that intense and incessant hunting pressure will cause waterfowl to leave an area? It doesn't sound like it from your comments.

*Dirt Nap said:*



> i already don't make trips to ND based on the increased restrictions. look at the migration levels of snow geese in kenmare nd, they stopped stopping there because of food, water levels, and habitat. look at the migration the past few years they stay just north of the border and almost skip ND altogether.


What increased restrictions? We separated the waterfowl license from the upland game license. I guess you could consider paying your own way a restriction.

Why do you think the snow geese stay in Canada - ever stop to think that the hunting pressure in that area keeps the geese up in Canada until they have to migrate.

*Springerguy said:*



> Call it what it is - you want to limit NR's so you can have more places to hunt for yourself. Trying to sell me on limiting NR's to preserve the "resource" is nothing but bunk. From my perspective, it seems like most of the energy by the "city" guys in ND is focused on creating laws to give them access to hunting land and has nothing to do with long term management of the resource.


So you find our attempts to maintain quality waterfowl hunting here in ND "nothing but bunk". I guess I can really believe that, considering what a mess the state of waterfowl hunting is in our neighboring states to the east. You folks want to come over to ND to enjoy our excellent waterfowl hunting, yet you ridicule our attempts to keep our waterfowl hunting at the level that makes it attractive for you to hunt here.

Hunting pressure and some over water hunting techniques have caused waterfowl to leave a given area in the state or caused them to leave the state entirely. We want to limit the hunting pressure so this does not happen. The increased hunting waterfowl hunting pressure has come from non-resident hunters. Therefore, that is where the limits on hunting pressure must come. This action would serve your best interests as well as ours.

It seems the only ones opposed to some restriction on non-resident waterfowl hunting pressure are the commercial interests who are willing to rape the resource now for whatever dollars they can get or the game hog who thinks it is his god-given right to come over here and shoot limits of ducks and geese every day - going out of their way to give them to somebody that evening so they can go out and shoot some more the next day. (Did I mention intense and incessant hunting pressure as a cause of waterfowl leaving an area?).

I don't see anyone who is concerned about the resource objecting to some sort of limit on non-resident waterfowl hunters. That would leave you in the commercial interest or game hog category. Which one are you?

Jim


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## angus 1

I agree with spiderguy. I have never had a problem with a NR waterfowl hunter. There are plenty of places to hunt waterfowl . I say let them come and hunt. Now the "city" boys from ND I have had nothing but problems with . They think they have some kind of right just to do what ever they want. Posted or not the NR's always come and ask . Residents on the other hand ........ don't get me started.


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## Bob Kellam

angus 1



> don't get me started.


I would like to get you started. Please name all of the occasions where you had trouble with resident hunters on your land. I am sure if it was a violation you pressed charges. Please tell us what the result was of you pressing charges. Please tell us the cities these law breakers were from and the total number of infractions.

People always say they have all of this trouble with resident hunters but not one person has posted what the violations were and the penalty was for the crime.

I would really like to know.

Bob


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## Straycat

I find it interesting that on everyone of these debates on the NR waterfowl hunting issue that our neighbors to the east (Minnesotans for those who don't know) when they don't have anything, always bring up the "walleyes vs. waterfowl" comparision. I haven't seen it where when I put my boat on a Minnesota lake and all the walleyes migrate down to Iowa in 2 days due to pressure.

It's not the same and please stay on topic. If you wish to discuss NR fishing in Minnesota, start a new thread and go there.

Good debate albeit getting tiring.


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## KEN W

Not sure why this is still going.There are no bills currently in the legislature to put more restrictions on NR.


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## Triple B

KEN W said:


> Not sure why this is still going.There are no bills currently in the legislature to put more restrictions on NR.


well there should be!


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## Ref

Straycat,

I told myself that I wasn't going to get into this debate, but.........The walleyes do migrate to Iowa and ND.....they migrate in a cooler. Unlike waterfowl, they don't get a chance to migrate back.


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## jhegg

Ref,

All the ducks "gifted" by nr's (to "friends", landowners, townspeople, badger holes. dumpsters etc.) don't have a chance to migrate back either. We are, however, more than happy to see those in a cooler go home with whoever shot them.

Jim


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## Springerguy

jhegg,

From what I've read in the papers lately it sounds like the wanton waste you are referring to with the NR's "gifting" to badger holes is a problem with some of your own residents. I believe the gentleman from Bowbells was recently charged with 48 violations - including around 300 geese rotting in a trailer. The point is this......you want to label NR's as shooting overlimits, etc. you might want to take a look in your own backyard. I'd suggest there are equal numbers of violators on both sides of the border and it is in all of our best interest to turn these types in regardless of their license plate.

Ken is right.......there's no caps on NR's this year so I shouldn't get wound up. I appreciate the opportunity to hunt in my home of record and especially watching my son hunt with his grandfather and uncles. Although only an 8th grader, he's a North Dakotan at heart - as evident by the wall size mural of the Fighting Sioux logo in his room - a gutsy move since we live in Rodent (aka "gopher") country. I suspect him, and his sister, will attend that fine university in the north country. Now.....let's not start anything about those MN kids going to school in ND.......Please. Remember, we have equal tution reciprocity so all are treated as residents.


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## jhegg

Springerguy,

My objection to the "gifting" issue is when it is used as a way to kill more ducks or geese. I "gifted" some birds last fall myself, but I didn't go out and shoot some more because of it.

Jim

ps: the 300 or so geese in a trailer was in Nebraska I believe. Guess what - that would make him a non-resident, wouldn't it :wink:


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## Springerguy

jhegg,

Very witty, I like that.


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## angus 1

Bob , I reported ALL violators resident or not . Yes there are non resident violators I'm sure but I have not run into any. My experiance with nr's has been very pleasant!!! Have never met a rude one. Residents, from Minot, Kenmare , Stanley. To name all the occasions would take quite a while with the residents , non resident NONE!! very polite , always stopping to talk, or show me what they got or tell me what they saw. Some come looking for advice. Ask for a good place to eat or stay. Just down right nice people who seem to respect the opportunity to come and hunt. Some even ask if they can camp on my property . Go right ahead, and I refuse to take anything for some day I'm going to go there and hunt with the friends I have made. Resident deer hunters are by far the worst, and non-resident waterfowl hunters are the nicest ( just my thoughts) I don't know if you have my email address but I can share some other info with you if you wish. let me know.


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## averyghg

angus1,

You wouldn't happen to be a nonresident would you??? :wink:


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## Dirt Nap

jhegg: i believe the geese are staying north of the border because the farmers don't double til the crops, habitat may be another reason they are not roosting around Kenmare anymore. i did see a lot more birds around that area well traveling to SK than in the past.


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## angus 1

I'm a resident of the great state of NORTH DAKOTA ! born and raised here!


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## Field Hunter

:withstupid: :stirpot: :fiddle:


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## averyghg

angus1

one of these days you'll be saying,

Im from the crappy hunting state of NORTH DAKOTA! born and raised here :crybaby:


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## angus 1

Now that wasn't very nice averyghg. What would make you say that?


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## averyghg

it was the first thing that came to my mind. it was refering to the reality this state will face in the future


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## Ref

jhegg,

I totally understand your position about the gifted or thrown away birds. I was merely responding to straycat's post about the walleyes not migrating out of a lake. Those fish in the cooler have a 100% chance of no return. Although the fisherman can return numerous times on the same license.


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## Straycat

Ref said:


> Straycat,
> 
> The walleyes do migrate to Iowa and ND.....they migrate in a cooler. Unlike waterfowl, they don't get a chance to migrate back.


Good one. No offense to you, I was just being sarcastic.


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## Ref

straycat,

No offense taken.


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## jhegg

Ref,

My point was that we do not object to a non-resident bringing home a legally taken possession limit of waterfowl, even though - as is the case with fish - those waterfowl have no chance to return to ND.

Jim


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## Ref

Point taken.


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## jd mn/nd

I still have not figured out what all of the whining, *****ing, and carrying on is all about, the law says if you want to hunt in ND no matter what state your from you have to abide by the rules and the laws of the state of ND, even a resident has to go by the same laws. There are law breakers on all sides of all borders, I don't care where your from ND, MN, WI, SD, Canada, you name it look it up in the state court system, and you will find both NR's and Residents in any state, or in any country. The point that I am making here is that if your a law breaker and shoot more than your allowed by law, you should be caught and turned in no matter what, if you do it in another state or country you will do it at home as well. I think that there should be a law that says if you get caught taking more than the law allows you can never return to hunt there again as long as you live. What an incentive that would be, how many hunters would be there from out of state taking more than they should? As I have stated before and will again there is no reason to feel like you should go home with all that you can, if everyone practiced this concept there would be no fish, no birds, no deer, etc... you get the point, take only what you are going to reasonably consume in one year, and be happy. I can not remember the last time I was in ND and brought home a limit and I mean a daily limit of anything, and before I get jumped here NO I did not gift anything either. I did have plenty of opportunities to shoot way over my limits, but I did not do that, I enjoyed the ND experience the older I get the less I look to do a lot of killing and look to do more hunting, with more quality opportunities of positive experiences. I like making new friends up in ND and look forward to seeing each of them every year, and can't wait to go out and sit in a field or a blind with them and catch up and shoot a little, mostly just to keep the dog in practice as I have way too much money invested in him, to not use him to his fullest potential, for example last year while driving down a township road I see two young fellas one about 12 and the other about 15 they had just shot a sharpie and could not find it so I asked them if they really wanted the bird the oldest said "yah, it is the first one I have ever shot on my own" so I let the dog out and in about a minute he had located the downed bird retrieved it and I gave it to the kid, he was so happy I thought he was going to cry, all he said is wait till I show my dad. That is what it is all about, guys who cares where your from, just treat each other decent. When you go to someones home do you walk in and say to the guy's wife get me a beer and I'll go sit on the couch while you fetch it up for me. Of course not you walk in you remove your boots, wait to be invited in further and wait for the invitation for dinner. In other words while your a GUEST in ND act like a guest and not like you own the whole dang place you will be amazed at how much of this kind of crap (the previous 3.5 pages) goes away there won't be a need for this type of discussion, that's all any of us really want's any way is for one party to understand that we are guests in their yard and visa versa. Who really cares who has the worst war stories about the other state, I don't. I am happy that the area I hunt in does not have this kind of anomosity towards out of staters, it sure makes our experience far more pleasant when we are there. As for the rest of you who apparently must fight tooth and nail to find one acre to stand on to shoot a couple of birds let me tell you ND is much bigger than that move around find new areas don't go to one place because so and so said there are lot of birds, because as you have already found out, so and so told everyone the same thing!!

Good luck on this never ending debate.

Later JD


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## jhegg

jd,

Your point being?

Jim


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## boondocks

I think North Dakota needs to put a ban on North Dakota residents crying about Non-residents. We are really making ourselves look like a bunch of sissy's. :eyeroll:


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## jd mn/nd

Yah Jim your just as guilty as the rest of the ones that want to fight about stupid things, like border wars, over who's birds, over who's fish, like I said when you pay for the privilege of being a guest in another state to fish or to hunt, you should act like a guest not like you own the place, and my guess is a guy like you must think he owns two states. One for hunting and one for fishing, otherwise why do you live were you do? I know, because an out of state fishing licenses costs less and has more time on it to fish, than a NR waterfowl or small game license in ND, not hard to figure out, but don't act all holier than thou. IF you lived in say Williston or Dickson or some place at least more than 60 miles from the boarder I might have over looked it, but not this time you walked into it. You want the best of both and you pretty much have it.


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## jhegg

jd,

I don't fish, so what did I walk into there? I was born in Fargo, for the most part raised in Fargo and now I still live in Fargo. Did I walk into something there too? You are starting to sound like a tank full of hot air venting.

Jim


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## Straycat

Huh? :huh:


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## Goldy's Pal

jd mn/nd The Huskies/gophers this weekend, should be fun.


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## Triple B

boondocks said:


> I think North Dakota needs to put a ban on North Dakota residents crying about Non-residents. We are really making ourselves look like a bunch of sissy's. :eyeroll:


 We have a pretty legitimate point, 10 years, thats whats it'll be! then everyone on here can get in line to tell me and Live2hunt we were right.


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## boondocks

Triple B said:


> then everyone on here can get in line to tell me and Live2hunt we were right.


Doubt it. :roll:


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## roostbuster

Triple B said:


> F that, we have a pretty legitimate point, 10 years, thats whats it'll be! then everyone on here can get in line to tell me and Live2hunt we were right.


Of course. That will be the end of this drought cycle thats just starting meaning that will be the time there is the least amount of HABITAT. Everyone seems to forget that A.) NR's are already limited to what is called 14 days, but without any numbers I'de be willing to bet the average (of course there's going to be a few that can spend all 14 days out here) is around 6 total days which I'de be willing to bet is less than the average R spends in the field. And B.) ND has just gone through the best habitat cycle in decades.... the combination of a long wet cycle, a half way decent CRP program, and crappy MN habitat has led to huge waterfowl populations in No Dak. And thats about to end with a drought, the end of CRP with corn once again becoming a big cash crop, there's going to be fewer birds and with that will come fewer NR's. No one is going to spend money to come where there's no birds or else they never would leave their home state. Everyone plays the R/NR game, but if MN had habitat they wouldn't leave, and if No Dak can keep its habitat (which I doubt will happen, which has nothing to do with NR's) there will always be huge numbers of birds in the wet years. Its basic biology, not politics.


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## Straycat

Of course. That will be the end of this drought cycle thats just starting meaning that will be the time there is the least amount of HABITAT. Everyone seems to forget that A.) NR's are already limited to what is called 14 days, but without any numbers I'de be willing to bet the average (of course there's going to be a few that can spend all 14 days out here) is around 6 total days which I'de be willing to bet is less than the average R spends in the field.[/quote]

Good point however the pressure issue will still be a problem. Yes NR's maybe hunt an average 6 days but multiply that by 26,000 at 7 days a week along with the drought, which concentrates all the waterfowlers, and you push everything out in a matter of days. Canada doesn't even produce waterfowl as she once did. The great migration of "northern" ducks and geese has only lasted a couple of days for the past 4 seasons. 

We're all sportsmen here I hope. Let's offer solutions and get them to our elected officals and wildilfe managers and end this rediculous bickering. Don't be hypocrites, try to improve things in your own state. Most of you guys on here are probably too young to remember how bad waterfowling can be and will be here if things don't change.


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## always_outdoors

roostbuster: Since you are so stuck on the habitat theory, then tell us all why ducks are staging in SD longer. Are they not in a drought? Their water conditions are very poor right now and yet the birds are staging in SD longer than in years past. Most of that state was burning up this fall.

Can you honestly sit on this site and tell us it is not pressure pushing those birds down there and the LACK of pressure keeping the birds in SD for a longer period of time even though they have less water??? AND yet you claim it is all about habitat.

Here is a link to the drought map: http://drought.unl.edu/dm/DM_highplains.htm

SD is more severe than ND, yet the birds are staging there longer than years past......and they have less habitat.

How much more do we have to present?

:eyeroll:

Sorry boys, I want my son to be able to hunt here 10 years from now. If you want to hunt here 10 years, 20 years, 30 years from now, you would want to see the right regulations and restrictions in place as well. What we are doing now is not working.

The hunting is good now. No doubt about that, but don't let it blind your judgement for the future of waterfowl hunting in this state.


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## Chuck Smith

Liv2hnt.....I agree pressure does play a role in this equation. But if you look at SD the pay to play pheasant operations have a big effect on waterfowl.

1. Available food. They plant food plots. Food plots help all types of wildlife.

2. Less pressure. These pheasant operations don't let too many waterfowl hunters, if any, on to their property in fear of pushing the pheasants off.

3. Most of these operations don't hunt near water. They push big fields of crops or crp. They leave the cattails and sloughs alone.

So when ND pheasant season opens this also helps drive waterfowl out of the state as well. You have pheasant hunters walking sloughs, driving ag fields, walking the cattails by lakes, etc. This will put pressure on waterfowl. Even if they are not being hunted....they are being harassed and stressed. Think of how many roost ponds get busted by pheasant hunters.


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## always_outdoors

> 1. Available food. They plant food plots. Food plots help all types of wildlife.


How many times have you seen ducks land in 6 foot tall sudan grass?

Aren't two and three both about pressure??



> They leave the cattails and sloughs alone.


WHAT? This is simply not true. I have hunted pheasants down there and everyone I saw hunted CRP and cattails for the most part. Except on the g/o land where they hunted over food plots, CRP, and cattails.



> This will put pressure on waterfowl. Even if they are not being hunted....they are being harassed and stressed. Think of how many roost ponds get busted by pheasant hunters.


How many total pheasant hunters hunted in ND versus how many total number pheasant hunters were in SD? And you talk about pressure on the birds??

Basically what you are saying Chuck is that we need to limit our upland hunters as well. Based on what you say above, pheasant hunters are driving waterfowl south as well.


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## Chuck Smith

No what I am say in the last two is that on the pay for play operations the waterfowl don't see pressure. So that is why SD has more birds sticking around.

My whole thing bringing up the pheasant hunters is that if you look at pressure you have to look across the whole board on what equals stress and pressure on waterfowl.

Pressure/stress can come from a variety of things. Hunters (all types), all waterfowl season's (early goose, youth, R only opener, NR opener, spring conservation season), loss of habitat, loss of food source, farmers working up land, loss of water, just being harassed or bothered on a daily basis, competition for a food source, etc. You add all of these up to equal pressure.

The early seasons or conservation season you might not be hunting ducks....but ducks dive into your decoys. They are not able to feed in that field......that is pressure/stress!

So again when people talk about pressure/stress on the resource. They should look at everything that equals pressure and stress.


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## boondocks

Look on the bright side, If the NR's keep experienceing bad hunting trips due to pressure and the pressure is hurting the hunting that bad, sooner or later the NR's will stop hunting here and go where the birds are, like South Dakota. Eventually the cycle will complete itself, and the birds will rebound.


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## always_outdoors

> No what I am say in the last two is that on the pay for play operations the waterfowl don't see pressure. So that is why SD has more birds sticking around.


Maybe it is because they only allow 7000 NR's in there to hunt waterfowl as well.

Glad to see we agree that pressure is what drives birds south and not just habitat, habitat, and habitat like others keep posting.

So here are the facts....
1. Amount of pressure put on waterfowl is greatest when birds are in ND.
2. Habitat is not the ONLY key to keeping the birds. SD is a prime example since they are further in drought than ND, yet the birds are going there quicker and staging longer there.
3. ND residents and biologists are starting to see some environmental adaptions occuring. Whether documented right now or not, we live here through the entire season and are seeing the changes ourselves.
4. Resident sportsmen spend more money hunting in ND than NR's do, thus the "throwing dollars signs" at us is really a moot point. NR's are not holding the town of Napoleon open because they come here for 14 days. They have an economic stimulus to that economy, but so do I and I visit Napoleon 6-8 times each year.
5. The claim of 'nobody owns those ducks as they are migratory birds and you can't restrict us from hunting them' holds really no water because SD restrictions are much more restrictive than ND and those same ducks go through that state as well. We see no-one complaining about SD restrictions.

I am sure there are more facts, but I have ran out of breath.

I will say this one more time......

We need to manage this resouce based on biology and not because of dollar signs or what someone else says from another state. We need to manage our waterfowl to insure that ALL OF US (that includes you NR's) can insure years and years of great waterfowl hunting. If that means leg bands or NR caps, then so be it. Just as long as we maintain the resource for years to come.


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## always_outdoors

> Look on the bright side, If the NR's keep experienceing bad hunting trips due to pressure and the pressure is hurting the hunting that bad, sooner or later the NR's will stop hunting here and go where the birds are, like South Dakota. Eventually the cycle will complete itself, and the birds will rebound.


Maybe I am taking this wrong, but that is nothing but greed. Let's keep shooting until the resource is gone and then move to another location? All while many of us residents see the hurtful side of improper management.


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## Straycat

boondocks said:


> Look on the bright side, If the NR's keep experienceing bad hunting trips due to pressure and the pressure is hurting the hunting that bad, sooner or later the NR's will stop hunting here and go where the birds are, like South Dakota. Eventually the cycle will complete itself, and the birds will rebound.


Now there's some real logic. Gee whiz.

Live2hunt,

You just keep nailing it. Maybe the message will get through. :beer:

I predict a serious reduction in the federal framework with waterfowl limits and season length this year. The pond counts will tell some of the story. Even if the feds allow for another liberal season, our Game and Fish biologists need to step in and take action. They'll hear from me about this.


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## T Shot

live2hunt said:


> 2. Habitat is not the ONLY key to keeping the birds. SD is a prime example since they are further in drought than ND, yet the birds are going there quicker and staging longer there.


We may be further in drought, but I would be willing to bet that NE SD has just as much if not more water than any one region of the same size in ND right now.


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## Chuck Smith

Lv2hunt...

Agreed.

But some things that need to be looked into.

The staying North adaptation:

1. Are birds staying north longer because more available food source because of the difference in farming practices?

2. Are the birds staying north longer because of lack of habitat because of in ND because drought conditions?

3. Are the birds staying north longer because of better habitat?

4. Are the birds staying north longer only because of hunting pressure?

5. Are the birds staying longer because of refuges or rest area's (whitewater in MB)?

6. Weather patterns? (need at least 10-15 years?)

7. Predator control?

South Migration:

1. Are the birds leaving quicker because of the competition for food source? (different ag practices?)

2. Are the birds leaving quicker because of the early hunting pressure?

3. Are the birds leaving just because of the influx on NR hunting pressure?

4. Are the birds leaving quicker once the pheasant season opens?

5. Are the birds leaving because of lack of habitat brought on by the drought?

6. Are the birds leaving earlier because of lack of rest area's and refuges?

7. Weather patterns? (again 10-15 years)

8. Predator control?

Now some of things can be compared to years past. But some can't. Too be biologically speaking we (R/NR) need a 10 to 15 years study. So instead of caps....try lesser bag limits, have days off or split seasons, leg tags, push for more refuges/rest area's. Because one thing I would hate to see is the state of ND not use money that was available (NR lisc sales) to increase of promote habitat that benifits all through the US.

ALso if a Cap is such an answer.....why is SD trying to raise its NR waterfowler's cap?


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## always_outdoors

Chuck: Some of those are moot points because the same things happens in MN, SD, and MT. (Example: If you think ND pheasant hunting is pushing birds out of ND, then the birds should be well on their way to Kansas or Nebraska once SD opens theirs....and they are not).

I never said caps were the answer either. Right now we don't have a cap and things are changing.

Lowering the limit or bag limit does nothing but promote "gifting" birds for those NR's that come in and pound on the fields and water day in and day out for 14 solid days.

Here is one idea I had.... How about a rest day. Nobody can hunt on Wednesdays during the season... R's or NR's included. I am not sure how that would work and I haven't really thought any deeper as to some repercussions of something like this. But it was a thought that came up.

My best hunch on the SD deal.....someone from tourism is thinking about $$$$$. Personally I would love to hunt ducks down there. I respect their cap and right now their resident and NR's that get a license are having the best hunting right now.

We having great hunting here as well, but for how much longer will that be?

So do we let the world in here to hunt while we are waiting for 10-15 years of research go through? By then some of the changes we are worried about may have happened...What happens if those changes are irreversible?

I keep coming back to the same question that I have asked over a dozen times now....

Do you want to keep hunting in ND and have the same quality of hunting for the next 10 years, next 20 years, next 30 years???


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## PSDC

I have stated in the past and believe a cap would be great.
What number does that state choose? I would like to see
15,000 NR waterfowl license.

I don't think a cap will solve the pressure problem. I believe
the hardcore NR waterfowl hunters will be the first in line
to purchase the available licenses. All it will stop is the 
"johnny come lately" hunters or also known as the lazy 
hunters. Maybe that is a good thing. But the NR hardcores
will still bump heads with resident hunters and the same
gripes would be posted on this site DEMANDING for more
NR restrictions.


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## Chuck Smith

My whole pheasant hunting thing is with the pay to play operations. They manage their land for pheasants.....leave certain feilds alone, leave sloughs alone, cut crop as they see fit, only allow certain number of hunters, etc.

Now all of this lessens stress and pressure on waterfowl! When a pay to play operation combines a corn feild to let pheasants eat....waterfowl use this feild. Now when strip the grain feilds that leaves places for waterfowl to eat. Owners are not plowing under pick corn feilds so it leaves more feed for the pheasants and a little cover. Etc...etc....etc..

See the waterfowl are not being hunted on these feilds/sloughs or parcels of land by anyone, R and NR a like. It is like a big refuge. The roosts are not getting busted on these parcels as well.

Like everyone knows....if you leave a roost alone the birds will stick around longer.

Now the gifting thing: (Someone correct me if I am wrong)

The gifting of birds is still illegal. If person goes and shoots a limit. Then they gift them. They can not go out and harvest another limit that day because they have shot their daily limit. So that is still illegal.

But I understand what you are saying.....hunting 7 days shooting 35 birds with a possession limit is 10. They gift 25 birds....all the time staying with in possession limits.


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## Jungda99

How many total pheasant hunters hunted in ND versus how many total number pheasant hunters were in SD? And you talk about pressure on the birds??

I saw on an outdoor show that SODak has about 75000 R hunters and 90000 NR Pheasant hunters.


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## KEN W

Straycat said:


> I predict a serious reduction in the federal framework with waterfowl limits and season length this year. The pond counts will tell some of the story. Even if the feds allow for another liberal season, our Game and Fish biologists need to step in and take action. They'll hear from me about this.


Don't bet on it....the Canadian provinces are waterlogged in a lot of places.The US side of the border isn't the only place taken into consideration.


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## Chuck Smith

jungda....

Look at how many acres of access are in ND compaired to SD. Like i mentioned the pay to play operations in SD are a refuge for waterfowl. Go to one and you will see what I mean!


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## always_outdoors

Chuck: I am not seeing what you claim to be happening in SD with pheasant hunting.

They don't combine the field for pheasants. If they want pheasants, they leave the field un-harvested. Same with grain.

Just look at the shows on the outdoor channel. They are not walking combined corn fields, they are walking 6 foot tall un-harvested corn....a place that does not have ducks flying into it.
-



> See the waterfowl are not being hunted on these feilds/sloughs or parcels of land by anyone, R and NR a like. It is like a big refuge. The roosts are not getting busted on these parcels as well.


We are arguing the same thing here Chuck. You are helping me prove my point......Before when all we had was 5,000 NR's coming into this state, the ducks stayed here longer. Everyone hunted and had a great time. We didn't use mud motors, ATV's and such to get into every nook and granny pothole. BTW, our small towns didn't need Nr's back then either because the R's were supporting the towns.

Now add an unlimited cap to NR's, the ability to use mud motors, ATV's and everthing else in the book. Add in the fact that these birds get pounded every day and people claim the waterfowl are NOT environmentally adapting? They claim us R's are making this up so we can shoot more birds???

So my question is...wouldn't a cap on the amount of people coming in be a way we can spread out the pressure?


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## Chuck Smith

If you don't see my point on the SD pay to play operations....go to one.

They have picked and unpick fields. They have crops stripped so groups can walk them. 640 acres of corn stripped down so groups can walk it. (when I mean stripped....20 acres picked and 20 acres standing in stripsn, 30 acres picked, 30 standing in strips, etc.) They combine the fields as needed......a little one month then a little more and so on. Certain feilds opened up. The sloughs don't get pushed, the ponds don't get hunted around, water is a safe zone. They only hunt certain area's of the acreage at a time and give the other half a break and then switch. Waterfowl hunters can not hunt these places in fear of pheasants will be pushed off. And then if snow hits early and food is covered.....they spread corn in a field. It is a waterfowl refuge!

Now with the cap.....A cap won't necessarily spread out pressure. If a state has a cap: People will want to hunt the Hot spots. They will want to hunt the first 2 or 3 weeks of the season. Does that spread pressure out....Not really.

Here is an idea: If you want to spread out pressure the state could go for a drawing for permits in certain "hot spot" area's. Example: DL can handle 10,000 waterfowl hunters a year (R and NR). so if you want to hunt that area you need a permit (R and NR). R hunters can get get a preference point in the drawing or if they live in that area they get a gaurnteed permit. Everyone has to apply R and NR alike. If you don't get drawn you have to choose a different area R and NR alike. This will spread out pressure. Because pressure can be put on by R as well as NR. The area will only have X number of hunters in that area per year. That is the only way to control pressure.


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## verg

I think one of the reasons there is a cap on waterfowl here in SD is because a smaller huntable region than ND. What i mean is that the eastern side of SD is decent for waterfowl-however not the whole eastern side. When you get west of Aberdeen and down the line the bird numbers are less. Because of less and less water the closer you get the river. West river waterfowl is almost non-existent except for pockets here and there. I believe ND has a larger area that holds good water. More hospitable area for birds = more birds= more hunters.
The geese get hammered pretty hard here in northeast SD in the early season. Seems like that is when lots of NRs want to come. And guess what, the birds do leave-because of pressure. You know where they go...to southern ND. They then get banged up there and come back. 
As far as reasons for migrations it has to deal mostly with food and roosting areas. Many southern states complain about poor seasons cuz of us up here. Well the weather stays nice longer which leaves fields open and water to roost. When there is freeze up, they start to leave. Hunting pressure pushes birds around as well but I think they move in all directions. As i had said before, you north dakotans get bombarded with nrs with watefowl. We get it with pheasant hunters. 
I'm glad SD has a cap on waterfowl but i wish it was lower. I'm also tired of people saying, "well we help your economy." Bull! the town was here before you came and will be when you leave. Locals keep towns going.


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## always_outdoors

So the ducks stay in SD longer because of less pressure. As you stated, it is like a refuge down there.

According to what you say, there isn't as much pressure, so the birds stay longer.

I don't want to confuse anyone here. Chuck from MN says that ducks stay in SD longer (even though they were further in drought meaning less water than ND) because of the lack of pressure.

I believe I tried covering that about 3 pages ago Chuck and was ridiculed by your statesmen as being greedy and wanted all the ducks to myself.

I appreciate you supporting me in this concept.

Now....Chuck also indicates that pushing sloughs for pheasants is pressure on the ducks.

Without hi-jacking the thread, I now believe that in order to maintain the quality of waterfowl hunting, we ALSO need to cap NR tags for upland hunting as well......we can't expect to have quality waterfowl hunting with all these NR's pounding on the cattails day-in and day-out chasing pheasants around.

Chuck and I have solved the problem...Caps on NR's for upland hunting to decrease the pressure on waterfowl and to spread out the pressure even more we will put caps on certain areas of the state to insure less pressure on the resources there.

I think I can live with that idea. I don't neccessarily need to hunt right here in Devils Lake every year. Just as long as we are spreading out the pressure and sustaining the resource for years to come, I can manage.


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## Goldy's Pal

> Lowering the limit or bag limit does nothing but promote "gifting" birds for those NR's that come in and pound on the fields and water day in and day out for 14 solid days.


Why and how did gifting become legal in the first place? I don't understand this reg I guess.

14 straight days? I would think very few can, not just from a limited amount of vacation point but that's one heck of a bill to pay at the motel's front desk. Talking with guys out there in the past 5 years that have been at the motels where I have stayed only hunt for a week. The 14 straight days of gifting slap is really getting old. Typical, one guy posts up pics and gifts to the motel and so now we ALL do. I have a few friends from Fargo , I don't label everyone there as a prick though.


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## T Shot

I'm glad you pointed this out Verg, too many people think that the entire state of SD is a waterfowler's paradise. In reality, maybe one third or a tad more of the state is really as good as advertised. And you are right, NE SD turns in to "Little Minnesota" for the early goose season. 8 of the 10 vehicles you see during the early season have out of state plates or are hunters that migrate from the southern half of the state so they can pound on opening day birds twice. If you ask me, these geese are starting to figure and adjust quickly. You want to see what it would be like here in the fall if caps were raised (by the way, a bill was on the table to do just that this year), look no further than the spring snow season. Its a three ring circus most of the time.


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## djleye

> I have a few friends from Fargo , I don't label everyone there as a prick though.


    :lol: Just the Packer fans right GP????!!!!


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## Chuck Smith

Lv2hunt....

You are correct...less pressure. But in SD you have the pay to play for R as well. So if these land owners would allow R hunters onto their farms....would the birds stay?

Liv2hunt.....*I never stated a cap*. I stated a permit area's or special drawings. These area's everyone has to apply for a permit, R and NR alike. The state could have unlimited numbers of hunters but only certain area's are limited because hunters need a permit.

Not to get too far of the subject.....but if ND had a trespass law would birds be getting pressured as much in ND? Because you could not just set up in any old unposted pick field. You think farmers would then realize how much pressure the resource is getting? Would NR stop coming to the state because they would have to do some more home work and leg work?


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## Chuck Smith

One thing to help roosts from getting busted by pheasant hunters is have a 
9 or 10 am opener everyday for pheasants!

I wonder how much that would help with the pressure on waterfowl? That could be something to explore.


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## 280IM

T-shot & Verg I haved hunted in ND&SD for many years long before the numbers were anything near what they are now. I have come up with a plan to make you 2 R happy. I will rent a car next year at the SD border,that way I will not be one of the 8 out of 10 NR plates. While at the border I will trade my money for SD&ND money there will not be any NR money spent,as you said the the towns where there before the NR and will be there after. When filling my Federal Income Taxes I will make note that none of my taxs go to make any CRP or any federal prodjects in ND or SD. I will not buy any cattle in any of the livestock auctions in ND or SD anymore for the feedyards down south. I will take with me next year while hunting lots of baggies so I leave no NR **** there you have plenty of you own. You sound like a bunch of little kids fight over a swing set that belongs to everyone. With out nation wide funds from Ducks Unlimted over many years and Federal ag programs you would not have the NR problem.


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## Triple B

:roll: not sure where u are going with that one?


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## 280IM

Tired of hearing how the NR hunter is distorying all the hunting in those 2 statesSD&ND. Ever figure out how much money the NR hunter spends up thiere?
:******: :******:


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## always_outdoors

Ever feel like you are in a circle Triple B.

280IM. Go back and read the first 5 pages before you open up your mouth. This issue has been addressed already.



> 8 of the 10 vehicles you see during the early season have out of state plates or are hunters that migrate from the southern half of the state so they can pound on opening day birds twice. If you ask me, these geese are starting to figure and adjust quickly.


Geeze the guys in SD are saying the same thing we are. It appears even though not research documented, that an environmental adaptation could be occuring. Not saying it is, but they are seeing the changes as well in SD.



> I'm glad SD has a cap on waterfowl but i wish it was lower. I'm also tired of people saying, "well we help your economy." Bull! the town was here before you came and will be when you leave. Locals keep towns going.


This is a quote from a SD resident. Seems we are on the same page my friend....but the boys from the East want their cake and eat it too...

If you look at the previous posts. SD and ND residents are saying the same thing, but the NR's that visit those states claim we are just complaining because we want the birds to ourselves.

I guess us ND and SD residents are just wrong?????


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## T Shot

280IM, what does distorying mean? I don't buy that the NR waterfowler is helping to keep small town SD afloat. NR upland hunters, yes. Little kids fighting over a swing set? I simply said that if there were no cap, the pressure on our waterfowl would be just as great as ND and made the early season goose hunt and spring snows a prime example. If you don't like my opinion, thats fine. Simply come up next Sept. 1 or whatever day it is this year and pound on the geese like everyone else. I am just noting what I have witnessed since the increase of resident Canadas in my hunting areas. I am happy for you if you have hunted these areas for many years. If you have, you will have noticed the same things as me.


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## T Shot

Also, note that I didn't pin it all on Non Residents. We have plenty of pressure from hunters who live in the southern half of the state as well (which would now include me I guess  ). These geese get hammered for a couple days and move out or simply cannot be patterned until well into the regular season. Ask just about anyone in my area who has hunted this early season since it started, I bet they say the same thing.


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## 280IM

You think the NR hunter causes change these enthanol plants going all over the farming belt are going to cause a lot of change. With the price of corn the CRP buy back is going to be big. You cann't blame them but CPR helps both upland and waterfowl. Things are changing and a lot not for the good. It is not all the out of state hunter. I have hunted up around Faith and on North 30 years ago and was dam happy to kill one a day wheather be upland or waterfoul and had just as much fun as now. The locals where glad to see you. Now there glad to see your billfold! 
I may have got mad but all you here from those to state is how is that DAM NR HUNTER I grew up in centeral Ne and as a kid I took out of state hunters every year phansant hunting Now ever tree line,ever fence line has been taken out for the center poivate irragation systems. In York county Ne there are no phesants along with the spraying on the crops.
the ponds where bull dozed out so irragation systems can cover a full quarter. NO ducks no geese with out ponds. You guys up north ***** and cry if a NR shows up but at least you don't have to drive 500 miles to shoot something


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## Bob Kellam

If this has been addressed please accept my apology, I have not read every post.

On every occasion when this topic comes up we end up with this group of hunters does this and that group does that and it is all pressure because of this or that group of hunters.

I guess in my lifetime hunting waterfowl has evolved from a focus of conscientious management of waterfowl populations for the benefit of the species to the system we currently have that is IMO, economically based.

Year after year of liberal seasons from the USFW have convinced us that there must be a lot of ducks so we tend to harvest our limits and for the most part follow the rules of possession set forth in the Federal regs.

Study after study tells us that we have plenty of ducks but a simple comparison of numbers from the 60's and 70's shows us that there is a marked decline in some duck populations and our current model is based on one species, Mallards.

Duck hunting and in fact all waterfowl hunting has gone from a few wood hand carved decoys to an extremely big business that is on a roll. I would be willing to wager that many do not start or give up hunting waterfowl because of the costs involved.

It will be interesting given the drought last year and the marked lack of snow in the ND PPR, to see if the federal guidelines will favor another liberal season.

Hunting pressure is not all from hunters, management and perception plays a part as well.

Sorry for the hijack.

Bob


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## mallard

T Shot said:


> You want to see what it would be like here in the fall if caps were raised (by the way, a bill was on the table to do just that this year), look no further than the spring snow season. Its a three ring circus most of the time.


T Shot, I have heard that the lake byron area was a zoo last year.Friends that hunted that area last spring said that they have never seen unethical hunting behavior like that in all of there years hunting.One guy in particular has hunted from Saskatchewan to Kansas for around ten years said it was the absolute worst he has ever seen.Are the SD CO's going to target that area this spring?If it is like last year ,the fines alone could increase the bucks in SDGF&P coffers substantially.How about land owner tollerance?


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## verg

280IM,
I have a better idea...stay home!!
I get a kick out of how many Nrs have all the answers to the dakotas hunting issues. You come a week a year and become an expert. 
Some of you need to wake up and be reasonable. Honestly, put yourself in our shoes. Everyone wants to come here to pheasant/waterfowl hunt--everyone!! Maybe all the hunters from the dakotas should pile up and head to your hunting area and hang out all season. I'll bet you'll be very inviting and welcoming right. BS! 
Don't give me this DU garbage. Many of the farmers here in my area ask if you are a member and if you say yes..they say no! That's another issue. 
No one said that Nrs are bad people individually. We are just stating that many areas are overrun with hunters causing many ethical and at times legal issues. 
You know why the farmers say , as you say "Damn nr hunters." Because every 5 minutes another one is knocking on their door.
You talk about hunting here when there wasn't that many birds. I hunted as a kid then too. There wasn't many hunters either. Somehow we hick towns managed to stay alive with out all your big money.
The big issue with me is the big shots from the cities buying up all the land in the dakotas. They pay ridiculous prices for land a farmer wouldn't dream of paying. Then they block it up so only they can hunt. It is happening every day here. Pretty soon waterfowl will be pay to play too.
Think about it...most of the hunting in southern states is with hunt clubs. You have to join one just to find a place to hunt. Simply because of so much pressure.


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## Chuck Smith

T shot made a great point....

Look at the early goose season! Birds are getting pushed out! WOW doesn't this effect all waterfowl???? Pressure put on by all hunters R and NR alike.

Also with more people (R and NR) targeting Honkers.....wow does this add into the equation of pressure?


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## 280IM

as long as there is liberal seasons,liberal limits.money to pay for leases,guides, and no game law in forcement there is no easy cure. Waterfoul hunting generated a lot of money.


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## verg

Chuck,
not trying to be rude-just not sure i follow you.
I don't believe birds stick around here any longer than they do in ND. You guys get cold earlier than we do, hence the birds start to move. They may get here and stay for awhile but when your weather gets here a week later or so...they're gone. Many times they leave ND and don't touch ground till nebraska.
As far as pressure, northeast SD has a ton. The majority of nrs come here. Birds do get pushed around because of pressure but as i said, i think they go in all directions.
I'm don't quite follow you on the pheasant pressure affecting waterfowl. I'm thinking it doesn't but i could very well be wrong. Not sure about that one.


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## 280IM

Well verg welcome to real world of hunting As far as coming up for 1 week you have no idea what you are talking about . I have livstock with sereral farmers there and have had for many years. I grew near one of those hick towns in NE, now has no school or anything left as the small farmer disapperated and only the big is left. I have been in your shoes and that *****ing and cry and blaming the NR for everything will fix nothing. I am here at the Lake of the Ozarks and can hunt on the rivers and on the smaller lakes and there will be other hunters a lot of them. I have some livestock in Wy also and the only free hunting there is public lands. You cann't blame the land ower for charging you to hunt, look at the price of taxes and up keep. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE FREE HUNTING any more this is 2007 not 1968 the only way you can stop out of state hunting or big money don't sell out of state linsnces


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## Straycat

Welcome to our SD neighbors to this debate.

As an expatriated South Dakotan, if you guys down there like what they have done with the "pheasant hunting industrial complex" in SD in the past 10 years, raise your waterfowl license cap and see what happens.

I will remind SD waterfowlers, polititians and all others again why the waterfowl hunting restrictions went on in in SD in 1948. The explosion of hunting clubs, fee hunting, over shooting, and purchasing of choice hunting lands and lakes by big money interests. These restrictions were in place until 1975 when the current lottery system was put in to place. There were legislators and sportsmen back then that had the forsight to see the problem. South Dakota continues to have world class waterfowling.

North Dakota also has world class waterfowling and I would like to help keep it that way for the others who I hope will follow in 20, 30 or 50 years. Not for the short term gain of some.

Keep the wind at your back.


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## 280IM

You are right and it is not going to be like it use to be Like it or not waterfoul clubs help the populations big money spends money you will either change with the times or quite hunting I don't like it ethier but that is the way it is


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## Chuck Smith

verg...

what I mean is that alot of people talk about pressure. They talk about NR pressure. But as I have stated over and over....pressure gets put on a resource during the early goose, youth seasons, etc.

So when one looks at pressure they have to take into consideration all these factors.

Waterfowl get pressured for a couple of weeks during early goose. Then you have a youth hunt, then a R opener.....the finally NR opener. You see the resource has been pressure for 3 different times before the NR even get there.

Then you add the popularity of goose hunting. Which just has exploded.....hence more pressure during the early goose.

Now I am in no way saying get rid of early goose or get rid of the youth hunt. But people always talk about comparing apples to apples. You can not compare data from the 80' or even 90's because early goose season's and youth seasons have only been around for a couple of years. So to compair pressure or stress on waterfowl put on by hunters you need to have a study and accurate studys take 10+ years.


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## Straycat

280IM said:


> You are right and it is not going to be like it use to be Like it or not waterfoul clubs help the populations big money spends money you will either change with the times or quite hunting I don't like it ethier but that is the way it is


Unbelievable... :eyeroll:

A clarification, SD had no non resident waterfowlers between 1948 and 1975.


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## Triple B

280IM said:


> You are right and it is not going to be like it use to be Like it or not waterfoul clubs help the populations big money spends money you will either change with the times or quite hunting I don't like it ethier but that is the way it is


so, basically you agree with what the ND residents is trying to say, but you're stance is that we should do nothing, just sit back and watch it happen??, 280, your posts are quite contradicting at times, do you not see our point? do you not agree that if we do nothing now, that it WILL in fact be like you stated? now do you see why we want to push for restrictions?


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## verg

280,

So those states you mentioned are good enough to own property in but not live in? You have big city mentality--doesn't fit here.
I have never paid to hunt and never will. I am fortunate enough to have lots of connections of lots of land for waterfowl and pheasants. As i said--fortunate! Most don't.
Read straycats post...he pretty much said it all-why we have a cap etc. 
You say you have pressure where you hunt. I highly doubt you have a clue as to what we see. Maybe you do? ND has 30,000 Nr waterfowlers. SD-100,000 pheasant hunters. Do you see that in your area? I do..as i said, most most come to my general area.


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## T Shot

280IM said:


> Well verg welcome to real world of hunting As far as coming up for 1 week you have no idea what you are talking about . I have livstock with sereral farmers there and have had for many years. I grew near one of those hick towns in NE, now has no school or anything left as the small farmer disapperated and only the big is left. I have been in your shoes and that b*tching and cry and blaming the NR for everything will fix nothing. I am here at the Lake of the Ozarks and can hunt on the rivers and on the smaller lakes and there will be other hunters a lot of them. I have some livestock in Wy also and the only free hunting there is public lands. You cann't blame the land ower for charging you to hunt, look at the price of taxes and up keep. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE FREE HUNTING any more this is 2007 not 1968 the only way you can stop out of state hunting or big money don't sell out of state linsnces


So basically, If I understand correctly, you have to pay for hunting so we should too? I have never paid for any hunting. Like Verg, however, I am very fortunate to have many connections. Still, you do not have to pay in SD to access some quality land. Lets keep it that way. If we didn't have a cap, I would probably not be a waterfowler.


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## 280IM

verg a big "city mentality" that's right any one that achieves any sucess doesn't fit here. Buddy I started with less than nothing and did it the hard way If the pressure is to much for you then move, the hunters will be there next year and the year after. SD tourism department will continue to promote for NR to hunt there if you can't take change you need to leave or elect soneone that will not let the NR in.


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## verg

I see what you are saying chuck. You may be right.
although, i don't think the youth hunt has a real big effect as far as pressue-at least not in my area. 
SD also needs (IMO) to make waterfowl outfitters have a license. We have to many NRs coming here and guiding other NRs..without any type of restriction. 
I can't remember the show, but the host has a yellow lab name "yeller?" 
It's a waterfowl show??? He brings up all his south buddies and bought a old house near Rosholt SD. He tresspasses all over and when farmers come after him..he opens his wallet. We have no outfitter restrictions and we need them bad to keep out the big wig terds like his crew!
Guys like this is why we have the tensions.


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## Straycat

280IM said:


> verg a big "city mentality" that's right any one that achieves any sucess doesn't fit here. Buddy I started with less than nothing and did it the hard way If the pressure is to much for you then move, the hunters will be there next year and the year after. SD tourism department will continue to promote for NR to hunt there if you can't take change you need to leave or elect soneone that will not let the NR in.


I wasn't going to engage in this, but... so many of the rest of us scratch out a living here on the tundra as well. Give me a break.

I'm glad to see that hunting in the Dakotas in now an entitlement program for NR's. :******:

I'm done with this if this what this discussion attracts.


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## verg

Is that what happened to you..couldn't take the pressure? 
Like T shot said..quite trying to implement what your state does to other states. If you love hunting so much more here than there, move here. I'll take you out hunting.
Some day maybe you'll realize that life isn't about money. That is what is meant by big city mentality. Most of your posts somehow relate to money.


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## 280IM

pressure come to the Lake of the Ozarks from May to the 1st of Sept.
As for living in SD I lived 5 miles south of the border for many years, I get to Herion in the fall everyweek for about to months Iget to Faith a lot in the fall I get to Winner a lot and this is not hunting. I get to hunt about a week during the fall. I said I have livestock on several places inSD you said I have land there. I aways pay the farmer for hunting on his place wheater he ask me or not. I pay a guide to take me goose hunting and glad to. If your state would regulate your so called guides and hold them to a higher standard you would have a lot less problems All the problems you have your states desiire to cash in on the NR caused the biggest share of them. People will pay to hunt because that is the only way they can


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## verg

I'm guilty of highjacking this thread a little and i am sorry.
Getting back to pressure. If you think about some southern states. LA, TN, AR etc. You have to be a member of a club to hunt ducks. (In most cases) You pay a $1000 (or whatever) to sit in a box with six other guys to shoot at birds every weekend. 
The reason..pressure. So many hunters, land all bought up.
We don't want that here in the dakotas. What's wrong with that? We want to protect our renewable resources. If we don't put caps on numbers etc our resources may not be so renewable.


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## 280IM

Get the caps on!!!!!!!!! Do you have a commity working on it? what reps do you need contacted that there are NR that agree? Do you have a fund set up for donation to help get the word out to the people who have the power to put caps on? I agree quite crying and get with it. I agree and a lot of oNR do to


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## verg

Hello, SD already has a cap. I think (could be off a little) 7000 Nrs for waterfowl. ND needs one too.
The only crying i've read so far is you wishing the dakotas would spoon feed you. You got the impression that i'm a child fighting for a swing. Heres the impression we get from you... You're one of those guys that-
Everyone owes you something.


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## Triple B

280IM said:


> I aways pay the farmer for hunting on his place wheater he ask me or not. I pay a guide to take me goose hunting and glad to.


its mentalities like this that will ruin the hunting in the dakotas for sure :eyeroll: leave your wallet and your money hungry attitude where they belong, we don't want it here :eyeroll:


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## verg

The last thing i'll say about this is exactly what trible B said. It's all about mentalities. When we locals here see a ND plate around, it doesn't faze us. We don't even bat an eye. Nebraska somewhat too. We kind of consider them "brothers." It's the other areas we seem to have troubles with and i think it is because many (not all) share the same money mentality as 280im. Money, Money, Money.

by the way..when i said property i *did* mean cattle-you own them, they are your property, right?


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## 280IM

I have never had any of you goodold boys turn down any cash up north weather you were paying them for thiier cattle or giving them a tip for allowing you to use thir land for enjoyment I have never had a problem with a land owner they have a bussiness to run I except to pay for my food,housing.cars and everything else including recration Who thinks they are owed somthing! I am glad to pay my way


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## 280IM

By the way I have a duel reisdence MO and Nebraska only 5 miles from the SD border Glad to know I have brothers in SD verg Does this mean I can get a R lincsene next fall because I will be there and I will pay Bob for letting me hunt and I will take him and his family out to dinner They are real SD folks By the way they have never once asked for money to hunt. Like I said real SD folks.


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## verg

I have to tell you 280im, you are wasting everyone's time on this thead.
#1 I have never read anyone contradict themselves more than you. (That means you say one thing and then totally say the opposite. ) 
#2 learn punctuation..can hardly understand what you are typing.
#3 try reading what others say and at least ponder what their points are. Many make sense. Others do have opinions you know.
#4 make logical, debatable points-don't just bash.
But you're right, i'm not a real SD person. I'm born and raised, and have lived here for 30 some odd years, but i guess i'm not SD folk.
Good grief that made sense. :lol: 
I'll give up 280im...i am now dumber from reading most of your posts


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## always_outdoors

280IM: What color is the sky in your world? :huh:

Boys, I have never seen someone dig a hole so fast in all my life..

Chuck and all the rest of the MN posters.....This is exactly what I am talking about. This is what many of us R's see and hear when you pull up to the bar/cafe in our small towns. This doesn't shock me one bit, because many of us hear this same thing over and over and over again.

It is nothing more than the MN bullying ND around. It is the "I want my cake and eat it too" and it reaks of arogance.

Last time I was in the Minneapolis airport I had to hear this. When I was visiting a friend in Park Rapids, MN I had to hear this. At the bar in Napoleon I had to hear it. At the Cenex in Washburn I had to hear it.

Add in the changes we are seeing and you wonder why we want restrictions?? :eyeroll:


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## Jungda99

I guess if they want to cap NRs that is fine if it is the "right thing to do"

Maybe we have just been lucky when we have hunted in ND because we havn't had any issues finding a place to hunt. Are you guys really fighting over spots that bad? I have never even had someone hunt even remotly close to where we hunt. Lucky?? I don't know. When we come to ND to hunt it is like a dream come true. Relaxing, easy to find a place to set up and of course birds. we may not always limit out but that doesn't matter. ND is a great get-away from traffic and people.

I have said this before but I just don't see the NR numbers rising much higher than they are now. Drought and baby boomers hunting less and less will keep the number hovering close to what it is now if not declining.

Now maybe if I hunted in ND 10yrs ago when the hunter numbers were low and compared it to now I too would think the preassure was high. But from my point of view I don't see the preassure as being too high.

If you want to see pressure come hunt we me for opening weekend of MN and Wisc.

Now I know what you are going to say.... we don't want ND to end up like MN right? I don't see that happening... Why? because I don't see the populatoin of Devils Lake being a million people anytime soon. That is what created the pressure in MN/Wisc. So fricken many people live in a concentrated area. I don't see ND being a metroplis like MN is so I don't see the pressure getting to be like MN/Wisc.

I am all for it if thats what the scientific data shows but I just havn't found the scientific data that shows it. There are so many variables that can shift bird patterns. Pressure is just the easiest one to point the finger at and the cheapest one to eliminate IMHO.


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## rsetty

WELL SAID JUNGDA99 !!!!


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## Triple B

they just don't get it and probably never will :eyeroll:


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## KEN W

Jungda99.....Large increases in ND population isn't the problem and never has been.Increased leasing of land is the problem.And it is being driven by OOS hunters.
So to combat that.....NR and Res. hunters are buying and leasing on their own.

So what is the solution?

Eliminating leasing....but that cuts into farmer's pockets and won't happen.Only solution left is to make it unattractive for people to do it.......ie.....Put limits on NR hunters to make it less likely they can hunt here every year.


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## Straycat

KEN W said:


> Eliminating leasing....but that cuts into farmer's pockets and won't happen.Only solution left is to make it unattractive for people to do it.......ie.....Put limits on NR hunters to make it less likely they can hunt here every year.


Bingo! 
Thank you Ken.


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## Jungda99

KEN W said:


> Jungda99.....Large increases in ND population isn't the problem and never has been.Increased leasing of land is the problem.And it is being driven by OOS hunters.
> So to combat that.....NR and Res. hunters are buying and leasing on their own.
> 
> So what is the solution?
> 
> Eliminating leasing....but that cuts into farmer's pockets and won't happen.Only solution left is to make it unattractive for people to do it.......ie.....Put limits on NR hunters to make it less likely they can hunt here every year.


But capping NRs won't cut into those same farmers pockets??

ie. if NRs can't hunt they won't lease so farmer jack still looses in the end.

If they don't cap NRs and cut leasing we will all have a bigger area to play... spreading the "pressure" out.

I have searched online for some data but I can't really find cold hard data. I have read many opionions online but thats about it. Do you guys have a link i could read up on? Like I said before. if the facts prove it I am all for it but if it is for other reasons I am not for it.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken......

But wouldn't putting caps on NR's make for more leasing?

Here is my rational.....If a NR knows he is not going to be able to hunt every year he will want to make sure they secure a spot to hunt with out competition. Will they not look at guide to make sure they have a spot? Will they not look to guides to secure a license? Will they not look to tie up land themselves?

Because if the states mandates a cap: Guides and Outfitters will get their share of the NR licenses. And if you think that this won't happen well you are looking at this with blinders on. Because they will lobby and whine and moan unless they can get their fair share. And the ND goverment will listen because they don't want to put ND people out of business. Look at other states and guiding operations. These states give a certain percentage or an number of licenses or tags to outfitter and guides.


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## KEN W

No I think it will mean less leasing.....

The only example I have is from back in the 60's when NR leased up big amounts of land in the DL and Oakes/Ludden areas.Back then there were no limitations on NR other than books of tags.

So......because of the complaints about all the NR leasing......they were limited as to how many days they could hunt.Back then I believe it was 10,but increased to 14 eventually.

Leasing basically stopped in those areas.So if non-res were not guatanteed a license every year.....it should stop the land purchaseing and leasing.


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## always_outdoors

I disagree. I think right now g/o's are trying to secure every piece of land they can because the hunting pressure is pushing birds out. By having 12,000 acres under their belt instead of 5,000 acres, They can manage the pressure.

Now if a cap was put in place, the g/o knows that only "x" amount of people will be hunting. Meaning less pressure and he knows then the birds will probably stick around longer because of this. So 12,000 isn't needed anymore to secure places to hunt or insure pressure doesn't push them out.

Also g/o will have to look at the ROI. Right now with no cap, they are unlimited to the amount of people they can take in. Knowing that they also have to secure large treks of land. If they know they are only going to "x" amount of hunters in the state coming in, they can look at what their percentage of those NR's are and will have to figure those numbers in how much they plan on leasing that year to make sure they put some money in their pocketbooks.

Myself, I am sitting on 950 acres of my wife's family farm. Nothing is posted right now, but if I am forced to because of pressure, access, or the loss of birds because of an environmental adaption; I will be forced to post the land to insure my hunting exists.

Right now everyone benefits, but the pressure from NR's is most definitely putting people into corners and they are going to come out fighting....this means more leased acres, birds staying spending less time in ND, access issues and nobody wins then.

We keep asking you this, but you don't want to listen.

Do you want to be able to hunt now, 10 years from now, 20 years from now here in ND??


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## Chuck Smith

Please someone correct me if I am wrong....but wasn't it only a few years ago they implemented or re-introduced the 14 day restriction on NR hunters for waterfowl.


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## KEN W

The 14 day restriction has been around for quite awhile.


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## jd mn/nd

Nope it has always been the 14 day thing as long as I have been hunting up there and that has been right around 30 years now. It used to be the small game was good for an entire season now they changed that too and made it 14 days to match the waterfowl season for NR's.

As for all of the complaining by some on here I have been there hunting when Buffalo Lodge lake looked like a mud puddle and could not land a boat in it. So I have hunted the dry years and the wet years and I will be the one that hunts up there no matter what type of year it is, it means that much to me to be able to come up there and spend time with family and friends while hunting. I do not care what you all do as far as days afield number of birds shot, you name it. The only thing that really jacks me up is that stupid word "cap the NR's". It is funny though that there seems to be only a certain number of people mumbling those words and they all seem to be from the same areas of the state. As the world populates and grows, the number of hunters will as well. So no matter what you think the days of having your cake and eating it too are going to be over for all hunters not just the NR's. This sport has changed more in the last 10 years than it did in the previous 150 years. But everyone adapted then and we all can adapt now, no one person has the say so to change everything, and it would also seem that no one group has enough collective power to change what's happening or is about to happen. It would appear that the energy spent here on this site whining is about all that most can muster up , to do what they are telling all of us is going to happen,now like everything else there are some exceptions to the rule, Like Bob K, who seems at least to me to listen to both sides of the story and collectively work out a compromise for both sides and present it to the legislature, the one bill he introduced that I know about unfortunatly did not pass, and it did seem to be a fair bill to both sides of the story. That being said, if the rest of the residents can prove that 51% of the residents in ND really do want a cap on the NR's coming to ND than by all means get out there and prove it, other wise I personally believe that your words of malice are going to continue to fall on deaf ears, why you ask, I tell you, it's like everything else in life, if there is no proof, then it is a matter of opinion and not fact. To be truthful most folks don't care about opinions, they do however listen and care about facts that can be proven. So to all of who claim that ND NEEDS a cap, I personally challenge you to prove it. You can do so with petitions, polls, political venues, or how ever you chose. Just prove that what you are saying is more than just a matter of opinion, maybe the bickering will end on this debate, if you can really prove that it is not just your personal opinion, but so far that's all that this has been, is a matter of opinion, and if that's all it ends up to be this argument will go on into eternity.

There is no need for this never ending debate, if ND wants to put certain rules or laws in place and we want to hunt there than we all need to follow the rules and laws no matter where we are from. If not move on down the road to another state or country. But stupid arguments that go on forever here on this site will not solve the problems of any state or country.

Later JD


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## always_outdoors

JD. I think you can go back 3 pages and almost everyone that has suggested caps have all said to do it based on HPC or at least said to do it based on biology and not dollar signs. So I guess I am not sure what you are so "jacked" up about. Many of posted on here that they support caps based on what biologists say and nothing more than that.



> This sport has changed more in the last 10 years than it did in the previous 150 years. But everyone adapted then and we all can adapt now,


Yeah, we see and have experienced the changes, hence why we are debating on the amount of pressure the birds see, the amount of hunters this state sees, and the biology that will soon support us.

Adapt how? Adapt to having MN rule our state? Adapt to having every Joe coming here? Adapt to having to pay to play? Adapt to Texas style hunting? Adapting to hunting clubs only?

Sorry man, I am not going to live like that here. I was born here and raised here. I plan on fighting for my right hunt here, my right to protect our resources, fight to protect our farmers, fight to protect OUR way of life here, and to fight those who want to make us adapt.

But don't worry JD, when I become Governor I will take care of any injustices that have taken place against the resident hunter. :soapbox:


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## jd mn/nd

Live 2 Hunt did you really read the post I made or did you just quickly scan it?

1. I did not say how to come up with the number to put on caps what I said was to prove the need for one!!!

2. All of us have experienced the changes in the hunting world and if the rest of the world has to adapt so do you, what makes you so damn special that you do not have to adapt to change? I also NEVER once said that you or any other ND resident had to do what MN said or any one else for that matter.

3. I would also like to know how a migratory, federally regulated game bird suddenly becomes the property of the state of ND just because it flew over ND and not some other state, that's a huge line of BS and you know it as well as does everyone else!!!! Also if I am not mistaken you live in Bismark, ND do you own land in ND besides a city lot that your house sits? IF so what are you doing to manage your property for wildlife, things like breeding habitat, food plots, and so on?

4. Just because you may win an election does not mean that you have the ultimate say so, so that you may erase laws that are on the books, that had to be voted on by the legislature and the house. Being governor does not make you Commander and Chief, with no one to answer to. Thank God that with a mentality like the one you have most of the great people of ND will see through your idiotic demeanor, and most likely will not vote for you or some one like you!!!!!!!!!!

5. IF you had read my post accurately I did state that a person hunting ND HAD to abide by the laws and the rules of the state while hunting there, and if they did not want to, that they needed to move on to another state or country. Yes I was referring to the NON- Residents that come to ND, to hunt there.

It is people like you that go off half cocked and only took out half of the information posted and twist it to read some thing all together different than what was posted. People like that, like to stir the pot when if you had just read the message posted, you would have seen that the only thing I challenged was to PROVE the need for a cap on NR numbers, and that if there was proof of the need to show all people the numbers as proof of the need. Instead you tried to blast me, once again a matter of personal opinion with little or no proof of the facts, and once again carried no weight to the conversation, just more blasifimace hot air spewing your personal opinion in a public forum. I like most others on this particular debate want to see the PROOF of the NEED for a cap. Bring some weight to the argument, show us the numbers that say there is a real need not just a want from a select few complaining because their little honey hole got discovered, and they don't have it all to themselves anymore. My guess is that you are probably not a lot older if any than me, and so I would venture to guess that I have been hunting in ND about as long as you have. I do know that there are some problem areas in the state as far as too many hunters in one area. However like I have said many times before, cap those areas to a limited number of both the residents and NR's an 80-20 split would seem appropriate for the number of permits issued for those zones, the rest of us would have to hunt out side of those zones.

As for your way of life, well you can just shove that were the sun don't shine, because that is also a line of BS!!! Guess what Jack that's all of our way of life, that's what makes us all hunters. I will also fight for my right to hunt, and probably harder than most would, because I personally would fight to the death for it. This is the USA after all, we do all believe in the 2nd amendment don't we? I am not sure what you think is different about living in ND than the rest of the world, you talk about it like it is a sovern nation or something, for crying out loud the last time I checked ND was still connected to the USA and was listed as state, that is governed by the federal laws of the USA. So come down off your high horse and join real world, welcome to reality!!!


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## djleye

> I like most others on this particular debate want to see the PROOF of the NEED for a cap.


How about the game and fish??? Is that good enough for you? They are the ones that originally came up with the need for a cap. I suppose your next line will be that they don't know what they are talking about, etc. Just degrees in wildlife and fisheries mgmt.


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## always_outdoors

Nobody on the high horse here. This has been debated and debated. Dan Buedie has posted the numbers and the pressure time and time again. I don't need to bring anything more up, becuase if you read the previous 5 pages along with many of the other "hot topics" discussions on here pertaining to this very subject. I believe as many others do on this site that we have provided enough information that we believe that caps should at least be discussed. Many of us support and did support HPC. I am one of them.

Now I will answer according to your numbers.

1. I just did it above.

2. We are special here. This is a great state. Does it mean I am above anyone. No, but it means I do believe we are special here. We pay the taxes and support our towns 365 days a year.



> I also NEVER once said that you or any other ND resident had to do what MN said or any one else for that matter.


Then why the lawsuit? why can't I go through the Minneapolis airport without some MN running his mouth at me if he realizes I am from ND. Why don't I see you complaining about SD when they have tougher restrictions than us? I sure don't see you making long winded posts on any SD outdoor websites?

3. I don't live in Bismarck. Devils Lake. Grew up in central ND. My family has about 950 acres that we do NOT post. I am in the process of establishing trees, but have to work with the farmer who rents it. I don't want him to loose too many acres at one time. There is alot more I do as well, but not going to go into it. BTW, my background is wildlife management and agriculture, so question me all you want on managing wildlife. I have been doing it for quite a few years.



> I would also like to know how a migratory, federally regulated game bird suddenly becomes the property of the state of ND


It isn't. It isn't in SD either, but yet again, we don't hear the MN crew complaining about that do we? How many letters to the editor do I have to read about some MN complaining to ND and yet I have never seen one to SD. Those same ducks go through SD as well.

4. It is kind of a joke, but kind of not a joke. For years I have been asked by good friends when I would run. I always laugh at it, but one can only get pushed so far and then the time may come. Right now it isn't an option. Maybe someday though.

5. I did read that. And I also didn't criticize it either.

I am going off half cocked becuase it is obvious you haven't read any of the prior posts made by myself and others. You don't live here, so your tone of telling me you need proof doesn't put alot of weight down.

As I have stated before. We have posted maps showing the pressure and as I also stated I think soon we will see the biology to back up what us residents are seeing.



> just more blasifimace hot air spewing your personal opinion in a public forum.


Blasifimace? When did God get come into this?

Only hot air I hear is from those who want their cake and eat it too; meaning they want to live somewhere else but have the same hunting rights that us residents have.



> I do know that there are some problem areas in the state as far as too many hunters in one area. However like I have said many times before, cap those areas to a limited number of both the residents and NR's an 80-20 split would seem appropriate for the number of permits issued for those zones, the rest of us would have to hunt out side of those zones.


Why should residents be capped? Why should NR's have the same privileges as residents? Just because you have been coming here for 20 years plus or whatever it may be does not give you the same rights as us.

When you pay taxes here, are the EMT, the volunteer firefighter, the tutor after school, the 4-H leader, then you should have the same rights as we do.



> As for your way of life, well you can just shove that were the sun don't shine, because that is also a line of BS!!!


Really now was that neccessary? My way of life is God, family, and hunting. I am quite sure that my way of life is just fine and doesn't need to go were the sun doesn't shine. I want to insure my son has the same hunting opportunities I do right now. I would hate to have to tell him that due to wrong decisions made not by biology and science is why he isn't shooting ducks today.


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## AdamFisk

live2hunt for Governor....... :beer:


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## averyghg

I wish i had all the addresses for the people disagreeing with live2hunt and tripleB, cause in 10 years when they prove everyone wrong i wanna go take a huge dump on your door step and say we told you so!!!! :jammin:


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## 280IM

Does anybody know what states have a cap on NR waterfoul? Ken do you know? Also is there a seperate Web site for ND Ducks Unlimited?


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## Springerguy

j/d,

Don't let some of these guys that proclaim expertise in migration patterns, adaptation, and the Coriolis Effect :lol: tell you that there is a need for caps. The HPC was drafted by the Game/Fish because some of the noise from sportsmans clubs, etc. There still isn't any valid study that shows the migration pattern or the number of hunters in ND is an issue. The issue is that much of the land has become posted over the past 10-15 years and the lack of access is blamed on NR's. Never mind that there is as many guys from Fargo leasing land and buying it - the NR's still take the heat. As I'll continue to say - this group doesn't want you hunting in ND because you are competition when it comes to access. By the way, nice to see the Huskies stick it to the Rodents,.....although I was greatly disappointed to see the Fighting Sioux drop one in OT to Denver.

live2hunt - you can continue to sell yourself as holier than thou but I have every right to hunt in ND as well. While you and crew were fighting to keep me out of ND I was wearing a uniform protecting your rights to talk this bunk about saving ND. I will also continue to fight for my right to cross the border and hunt - don't forget, the public lands in ND aren't paid for by just your taxes.


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## Straycat

Springerguy said:


> j/d,
> 
> live2hunt - you can continue to sell yourself as holier than thou but I have every right to hunt in ND as well. While you and crew were fighting to keep me out of ND I was wearing a uniform protecting your rights to talk this bunk about saving ND. I will also continue to fight for my right to cross the border and hunt - don't forget, the public lands in ND aren't paid for by just your taxes.


I was wondering when this item was going to find it's way into this debate. *Don't* you ever bring in whether if I wear a unform or not or if I am patriotic. This has no business in this discussion. I am very appreciative of our servicemen and the job that needs to be done. Don't use it.


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## Triple B

:withstupid:

Yeah, thats what it is! how did you guess!?!? we just want the whole state to ourselves! my god you are so smart! how many of you NR's are here all season? how many of you see what we see? none of you understand and you never will, its rediculous all you believe is what you want to believe, no there isn't any scientific data supporting the migration patterns, but you talk to any resident within 20 miles of canada and they will tell you the same thing we are trying to get across to you thick skulled neanderthals. the reason their is no science behind it, is because this is a very recent phenomenon thats taken place in the last 5-10 years. i'm done wasting my time on trying to teach adults that comprehend at a 3rd grade level anything. believe what you all want, but this is for real.


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## Springerguy

Triple B,

First class response - if you can't support your position with facts just accuse the rest of us that disagree as being stupid. You make it sound like you live on another planet that we visit only a couple of times in the fall. I might not live in ND any longer but I've probably spent as many days with my boots on ND soil as you - but we just don't get it. Yeah, the hunting probably won't be that great in another 5 years, but that will be a result of CRP acres put into production and have nothing to do with some migration adaptation.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

The main reason in my opinion why this issue never dies, is because everyone will have a different view of what pressure is. For a guy who grew up hunting here in the 80's and 90's that had next to none, it's a big change. For guys who come from high pressured areas, it's relatively quiet. You also have to take into consideration the time you come and where you hunt. A lot of hunters are mobile nowadays and an area one year is quiet and next year busy and vice versa.

What will be interesting to see is if the same drought pattern that parallels hunting pressure will occur in the upcoming years as previous decades. It's flat out DRY out here and the duck hatch should continue to suffer, not including what will happen with CRP. That should result in decreasing limits. So will the same amount of hunters come here when they can only shoot 3/day? Or will they drive another couple hundred miles to Canada where they can shoot 8?


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## Triple B

Springerguy said:


> Triple B,
> 
> First class response - if you can't support your position with facts just accuse the rest of us that disagree as being stupid. You make it sound like you live on another planet that we visit only a couple of times in the fall. I might not live in ND any longer but I've probably spent as many days with my boots on ND soil as you - but we just don't get it. Yeah, the hunting probably won't be that great in another 5 years, but that will be a result of CRP acres put into production and have nothing to do with some migration adaptation.


like I said I'm done. I understand you all have your opionions and I respect them, but when you won't even take into consideration what we see all year long, thats when it starts to bother me, you can all sit on your computers and check it out second hand and then come here for a week and think you are experts as to whats going on, i've had enough of it. and as to your boots hitting the fields here more than me, I HIGHLY doubt it.


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## Springerguy

Chris-

I'll predict that a good number of them will head to Canada. I grew up hunting in SE ND in the 70's and 80's and have spent time every fall in ND since then -I still have family there and we all hunt. I haven't seen a study that compares the number of NR hunting licenses with the wet cycles but I think you'd find that a wet cycle is followed by an increase of NR hunting licenses. The recent wet cycle really brought the NR's from MN since it was dry here at the same time. I'm not a hardcore duck hunter but it sounds like there are more ducks showing up in MN - at least guys I know at work seem to be harvesting more birds the past couple of years. I seem to recall the NR numbers were at a all time low in the late 80's and early 90's when it was dry and there wasn't that many ducks. Most of the guys that I know heading to ND are after the ducks and aren't interested in the geese - doesn't seem like the snow geese attract the hunters like they did in the 70's. Keep your fingers crossed that all the letter writing to the legislature will reverse Bush's attitude towards CRP - my Dad often talks about how the CRP program has reminded him of the Soil Bank days when pheasants were everywhere. When that CRP is plowed under you can bet we'll be back to patchy populations of pheasants.


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## tumblebuck

I just love these quotes....



> don't forget, the public lands in ND aren't paid for by just your taxes.


That is correct. *Your's and every other person in this country...hunter and non-hunter alike!*

Somebody do us a favor and figure out the population of the United States, figure out how much the "average" taxpayer pays, figure out how much federal money ND gets for CRP, WPA's, etc., and then figure out what each individuals contributes to these programs....

I might be surprised, but I doubt it. I'm betting it's a pittance.

See where I'm going?

Once you whining NR's figure out which blade of grass your $0.10/year helps grow.....we'll give you permission to hunt that blade to your hearts content.

I've already got mine in elk country staked out.

Enjoy your "little" heaven on earth!


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## averyghg

hahah nicely done


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## Springerguy

Tumblebuck,

Seems like most of the whining on this site originates with you boys on the west side of the Red River. Let me guess, since you live in Mandan that gives you the right to hunt anywhere in ND. Keep fighting to limit access - I've found it much easier to find places to hunt with MN plates. Much appreciated, keep up the good whining and I'll get to hunt on more than just a blade of grass.


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## always_outdoors

Springerguy: It doesn't matter whether 20 ducks come through this state or 20 million. Fact is, we live here and you don't. You want the same privileges, then move here.

Nobody is telling MN or SD how to run their state, not sure why you feel you are entitled to run ours.

:eyeroll:

Just for old times sake, here is some great data for everyone.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/resnonres.pdf

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/rnonres2.pdf

Updated ND info can be had from Paul Schadwald at G&F.


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## tumblebuck

*No where in my post did I say I had the right to hunt anywhere in North Dakota!! *

I don't own land, so my hunting is limited to the good will of ND landowners.

I'm just proving a point that *your tax dollars don't amount to squat[/b...so quit trying use that argument!!!!




I've found it much easier to find places to hunt with MN plates.

Click to expand...

 :lame:

Another argument from NR I love. Have you ever had ND plates?? How would you know if access was any better or worse???




Much appreciated, keep up the good whining and I'll get to hunt on more than just a blade of grass.

Click to expand...

Yep...I bet it's pretty easy getting a lease from the 20 million or so residents of NY city that don't hunt for their blades of grass. I think you're now up to about 100 square feet.*


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## djleye

> I've found it much easier to find places to hunt with MN plates.


Uh huh!!! :eyeroll:


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## Norm70

I agree Chris, what will happen if the current pattern of drought keeps up?
How many people will travel to this state if the limit on Canada's is 1 a day like it was awhile back.


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## djleye

This recent snow fall will help only minimally, a spit in the desert. We need a ton of moisture this spring before it is planting time. Getting to the point where it could be a double edged sword, we need the rain but farmers also need to get into the fields to plant. I guess we could hope for sumer rains but from what I have heard there is not forecast for that yet either.


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## jd mn/nd

Live 2 Hunt your media you posted shows that since 1975 there has been an average of about 70,000 hunters total in ND there where some low spots along the way but overall a total of 70,000 now the numbers use to be higher for resident back in the mid 70's now they are lower however the NR's were lower back then and now they are higher, so even with your warped resident goggles on you should still be able to see the total of the numbers has not increased over the years it has stayed roughly the same for the past 30 or more years, again show me proof of the need for a cap since we still have not moved up in total numbers, WHERE is the SUPPOSED, PRESSURE you keep whining about? I mean really your own charts hurt worse than your argument about HPC or anything else for that matter.

Like a few on here have said yes the fair weather hunters will stay home if it gets dry out there or stays dry as the case maybe. Yes the numbers will also increase as the years get wet again too. However overall ND has never seen the BIG increase you all are preaching about in total numbers. So I am going to ask again and I want PROOF not your opinion or some made up junk, I want real non-biased facts proving your point of TOO much pressure, when it comes to the bottom line the actual number of licenses sold over the last 30 plus years has not gone over 70,000 total, so when I and others look at the bottom line we do not see all of the BS your trying to spread around on this subject.

Now if you want to argue about something look at the people or big business buying up land to hunt on and then posting it up so no one can hunt on it, sad part is that they lock it up for one or two weeks and keep everyone off for the other 50 weeks per. However it is not just them either it is also the farmers and ranchers buying up land to grow their operations as well and they deserve it, how ever most of them post up their lands as well simply because they live so far from their land that it is just easier to post it then to check on it all of the time. There are many factors to individuals and business buying up land in ND, it is too bad that there is less access to the land that all of us are use to hunting. However unless you are hunting on water, which from my understanding is a HUGE no, no, in ND the birds do not always sit in the same field day in and day out, so it is a matter of looking for fields that are not posted or go door knocking. Last year every evening we would scout and then seek permission and not once did we get turned down, some land was posted for deer hunting, some was posted so that the land owner knew who was on the land, some was justed posted from last year, and they did not want to hassel with taking down the signs. Now I will also admit that we do hunt in a lesser known area, however we do well and get the birds we are looking for and do not see any increase in pressure as a matter of fact probably less pressure than in years past. What everyone is mad about is that some people want a certain area all to themselves, and don't want to share it so I would say get mad at the people that bought the land and posted it, and tied up the land, hence reducing access to land that used to be open to hunting, in 30 plus years a lot of land has changed hands and it will continue to do so over the millenium as well. But land ownership is really your biggest problem not the NR'S coming there to hunt you all just have to be big enough to admit it that's all. But there again I know that will not happen either. Funny thing is most of you complaining probably know people that bought land and posted it up and won't let anyone hunt on it, I wounder why they did that? Don't always blame others for another underlying issue that you know you can't stop from happening!!!!

To all of you who are complaining about too much pressure you better find a new argument because the old one is not a valid point any longer.

Later JD


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## KEN W

JD....how many times must we tell you that total numbers mean nothing.Look back at this same discussion last Sept.Here are the numbers AGAIN.We told you then.....there is a big difference between Res. who just hunt weekends and increasing numbers of NR who hunt all week.The number of NR has steadily increased.Ducks recieve much more pressure now than 30 years ago.Not just on weekends anymore,but every day.Why can't you understand this??

The GNF has also done studies proving that NR shoot more ducks per day than Res.They are very good persistant hunters who generally are very dedicated.It is proven that hunters are taking more ducks now than they did 30 years ago.How can these facts not equal more pressure?

Year Res NR Total

1975 67,267 6,043 73,310 
1976 63,660 8,530 72,190 
1977 63,117 7,933 71,050 
1978 64,081 9,044 73,125 
1979 59,053 8,682 67,735 
1980 55,508 8,262 63,770 
1981 52,079 6,931 59,010 
1982 52,565 7,615 60,180 
1983 48,575 7,085 55,660 
1984 45,814 7,111 52,925 
1985 41,470 6,380 47,850 
1986 42,048 7,507 49,555 
1987 40,890 7,505 48,395 
1988 26,838 4,222 31,060 
1989 29,394 5,778 35,172 
1990 27,529 5,522 33,051 
1991 27,857 5,928 33,785 
1992 22,816 8,175 30,991 
1993 30,271 9,534 39,805 
1994 35,329 10,316 45,645 
1995 37,054 11,997 49,051 
1996 39,009 13,750 52,759 
1997 36,953 15,561 52,514 
1998 39,513 19,191 58,704 
1999 39,118 21,873 60,991 
2000 35,992 25,165 61,157 
2001 35,310 30,029 65,339 
2002 34,138 29,992 64,130 
2003 30,771 26,066 56,837 
2004 28,336 24,375 52,711 
2005 28,331 25,455 53,786


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## verg

JD,
I can't put up a perfect arguement because i'n not a ND resident. I'm from SD. But what i can say is that the average number of Nrs waterfowl hunting in ND is around 30,000 (give or take). If you don't think that is a high number, something is wrong. Think about it..30,000!! You need to remember, it's not like 30,000 spread all over the state. Most watefowlers hunt the same area, where the birds are. So-yes there is pressure. And honestly, too many people need to get off the computers and reading all these so called "facts." I wonder if some people need a caculator to make sure it is ok to crap on sundays. 
I just don't understand how people who come and hunt 2 weeks a year have all the answers and/or know what kind of pressure another state has? You guys see it for a week while locals see it for three months or more. There are guys here that hunt 3/4 times a week. Why not trust what they see and experience?
Geez, SD has around 100,000 nrs for pheasant season.. but i suppose some of you won't believe me until you check the facts.


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## g/o

jd mn/nd, You have been around here since 04 and you ask dumb questions like you do. Come on everyone knows that the N/R hunters are better hunters than Residents that's why things are out of balance. You guys hunt more days in a row, shoot more ducks, and chase them all to Sand Lake. That is why the 70,000 hunters is not apples to apples rather oranges. I guess we should have 4,000 N/R hunters and then some might be happy. If you really want to get along with these guys do what has to be done when all else fails. Blame everything on the outfitters.


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## djleye

l


> ook at the people or big business buying up land to hunt on and then posting it up so no one can hunt on it, sad part is that they lock it up for one or two weeks and keep everyone off for the other 50 weeks per. However it is not just them either it is also the farmers and ranchers buying up land to grow their operations as well and they deserve it, how ever most of them post up their lands as well simply because they live so far from their land that it is just easier to post it then to check on it all of the time. There are many factors to individuals and business buying up land in ND, it is too bad that there is less access to the land that all of us are use to hunting. However unless you are hunting on water, which from my understanding is a HUGE no, no, in ND the birds do not always sit in the same field day in and day out, so it is a matter of looking for fields that are not posted or go door knocking.


JD, You say that the number of hunters hasn't changed in one breath and then in the next breath you talk about all the land that is now tied up. There is more pressure because all those hunters are competing for less available land. Not too tough to figure that out!!

Jim, Do you ever get tired of playing the poor me card???


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## g/o

> Jim, Do you ever get tired of playing the poor me card???


I'm not the one complaining about pressure and non resident hunters am I? Or that the outfitters are leasing everything up. I think those comments come from your camp.


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## PSDC

Two questions;

1) How do the residents know the pressure is that bad,
if they only hunt the weekends and the majority are
from the larger community.

2) How many NRs actually hunt all 14 days or 2 seven
day period. Most people don't have over 2 or 3 weeks
of vacation a year, doubt they are using all their 
vacation time on ND hunting!


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## KEN W

Who said NR hunt for all 14 days?What does that have to do with understanding that there is more pressure now than 30 years ago.

Once again......there was hardly anyone hunting during the week 30 years ago compared to now.How is that difficult to understand?I'm not saying it is so bad we can't find a place to hunt.Just saying THERE IS MORE PRESSURE NOW THAN 30 YEARS AGO.

In some places it is a lot....in some not so much,in others very little.

It has changed over the last 30 years.PLus back then most hunters concentrated on snow geese.....ducks were a by product of goose hunting.Not so nowadays.....most concentrate on ducks.The primary snow goose area was north of Hwy 2.Now the primary area is on a line from Fairmont to Crosby plus Devils Lake with almost half the licenses sold in zones 1 and 2.

Example.....I have hunted the Bottineau area for 30 years.Back in the 70's it was shoulder to shoulder along the refuge fence lines.Ducks were all over on potholes.I could go out and hunt ducks after school less than 5 miles from town.No one hunting them.Everyone went back to work on Mondays.

Now.....few snow geese until the end of Oct.The motels are almost empty.Not the greatest duck area here but still pretty good.But why drive by all those ducks south of here if that's what you really want?

How can all this not equate to more pressure on ducks?


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## jd mn/nd

First off I did see that only 2 times in the last 30 years has there ever been 30,000 NR's since then the numbers have continued to drop. Secondly most of the guys on here that are NR's state that they only hunted 3-4 days per trip so that would most likely be on the weekend and maybe a day or two on either side of it. Not much more pressure than what a resident puts on the traveling population of migratory birds.

Secondly what I would like to know is where do you people think that the 70,000 residents hunted in 1975 their backyards? Come on they hunted where the birds where at to Verg!!!! Get real folks there was pressure than just like there is pressure now, as for Ken W. not all NR's as has been admitted hunt every hour of every day of the entire season as most of you would like to think. A lot of NR's have been on here and stated that they only hunted in ND for 3-4 days per trip.

djleye what is your point? the total number of hunters in ND last year was only 53,000 down from the all time high of 73,000 that's 20,000 less hunters overall and down 12,000 from just a few years ago. So now we have less land to hunt and fewer hunters in the field what's your point I was stating facts, black and white facts not just my opinion. Show me the pressure you all are talking about, what pressure, where at, how much, how long does it last? Like a lot of things in this world if there is too much pressure than the population of the species would be rapidly dwindling, show me where that is the case with out the habit or lack there of information and don't blame that on us either show me how the hunters are doing more than their part at eradicating the duck population or any other population for that matter. Most rapid population increases and decreases are inherently weather related for instance a mild winter usually translates into a good deer and upland population the following year however a wet spring lots of flooding and cold will kill many of the young upland birds or drown the fawns, BUT the duck population goes way up due to optimal breeding conditions.

G/O as for NR's being great shots, I personally would have to question that one as I know that our group pulls the trigger our fair share, but we do miss a bunch way more than we hit that's for sure. I also know that at time I do ask dumb questions, but I guess that I must be so stupid that I don't even know which ones they are. As for blaming you for the problems at hand I can't even do that as after speaking with the warden last fall he told me that in the last five years all but two G/O's have fold up and went out of business as the birds are staging in Canada longer and don't come down until freeze up and then only for a few days, it seems that mass quantities of geese hold up on a large resevour just over the boarder in Canada that resvour did not exist until about ten years ago, so that is also a big part of the migration problem as well, so now you all can start to blame this on the Canadians as well, since they built the resevour.

So to recap all of this appreantly according to the people with out black and white statistics are mad at the NR's for too much pressure even though the number of total hunters is down over the past 30 years or so and we all are still hunting in the same areas and we have less land to hunt, because it is bought up and posted. I see this as a simple issue if you have to do battle to hunt in a certain area pack up and move, there are no birds worth that much hassel, find a new area with less pressure, I am sure the guy you chased away *****ed about you taking over his spot too. Like everyone else in the USA if you want land go to the bank take out a loan and make the payments and you too can become a realestate tycoon, the secondary benefit from that action is that you will own your own land that you can post to keep everyone else off your land, hence then making you part of the problem instead of the solution. When is everyone going to realize you can not change things and you can not go back in time to the old days? There is no such thing available, maybe the best thing ALL of could do is to start a association that we all can be members of you would have to deposite say $5,000 in to be a member that money would then be used to buy land all over the state of ND that would be open to only the members but would be owned by the association, when you did not want to be a member any more you could sell your portion to a approved individual, gone before the board of directors of course. You see as stupid as this sounds it is exactly what all of you really want, you just don't want to admitt it and your not sure how to go about starting something like this up.

Later JD


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## PSDC

Ken,

Read the 1st question as stated!
I asked how do the large city resident hunters
know for a fact that NRs are pounding on birds
all week long. It keeps on getting thrown out
that residents "ONLY" hunt the weekends!


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## bandman

WOW!! I've tried my hardest to stay out of this controversy lately b/c i was gone when it started but i will say there are some very naive/narrow-minded people posting on this matter. is it really that hard to understand something guys, seriously??
don't try and govern if you don't even reside! just enjoy what you have while it lasts b/c like it or not, a fork in the road is coming.


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## Maverick

> Read the 1st question as stated!
> I asked how do the large city resident hunters
> know for a fact that NRs are pounding on birds
> all week long. It keeps on getting thrown out
> that residents "ONLY" hunt the weekends!


Because it's not just LARGE CITY resident who are saying it!!! It views from all over the state. 
Ex. My parents, (who live in small town ND) see it day in day out. Through our conversations they mentions to me that he sees X amount of hunter this week ( hunting in spots that he had planned to hunt on the weekend) and X amount next week( on different spots he had planned to hunt on the weekend). So now you may ask how do we know about pressure. Well you figure it out.

I 'll tell you what... I will believe the words of my father ( who lives in Small town ND, and sees it first hand) than 3/4 of you on here!!!! The REAL question is will you as a NR believe the words of a small town local? Some how IMO you won't. That's where the problem is. We have people who live hundreds of miles away and they know it all!!!


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## PSDC

Mav,

What smoke I am trying to blow away is that residents only
hunt the weekends. BS. There are more residents hunting
the week and also taking vacations when the hunting is good.
Pressure has increase on both sides. Look at some of the
past post from the young pups on this site, pumping their
chest with thier lastest kills, while playing hooky from
class. Didn't you fall into that category in the past?


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## verg

JD and others,
you keep saying that most nrs only hunt 3-4 days a season in ND. How in the world would you know if there is a lot of pressure then? How do you you know?? I just don't get why some nrs are experts or have all the answers for other states. You all make assumptions.


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## Maverick

> There are more residents hunting
> the week and also taking vacations when the hunting is good.


That is true to a point. Us resident have learned that the best time for hunting is before the pressure is here. So those weekends we take are before the mass get's here. Less pressure=more opportunity.



> Look at some of the
> past post from the young pups on this site, pumping their
> chest with thier lastest kills, while playing hooky from
> class.


Good point. Not *all* but *most* of those young bucks are NR. I would guess that most are college students who are taking advantage of the resiprocity. Now don't get me wrong some are Res. students as well but most I would guess, and yes I am guessing, are students from other states.



> Didn't you fall into that category in the past?


Nope I went to class, other wise I was working like I am now!!! 99% of the pictures in my album are taken on the weekend!!


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## jd mn/nd

So Mav are your folks retired aor how is it that your dad on a weekday happened to be out driving around in an area he planned to hunt on the weekend? Why if he had time to go out of his way to check the hunting area did not just go hunting there in the first place? But hey Mav just so you feel better we all have been aced out of spot we really wanted to hunt, I usually just go to plan B or punt, seems that is just the way things are in the world of hunting. As for what happened 30 years ago we hunted water everyday, and guess what the birds came back day after day, and they still do. So what has changed?

Bandman I would say to you that with the pics you post of you and your equipment shown in the photos your not just hunting weekends either, no one dumps $15,000 into equipment like that to just shoot a few weekends in the month of October, no how naive do you think we are? I am not telling you how to govern anything what I have been asking for that not ONE single person has brought out yet, is statistical black and white proof of the supposed pressure all of you are whining about. As for my residing part it will be soon enough I too own property there as many of you know and I do pay my taxes as well as the rest of you do, I also work in an industry that affords me to able to make sure that I am selling things that keep jobs in ND, and I do as often as I can. As for your comment about being able to understand it yes it is difficult for me to wrap my mind around what all are saying as the black and whites don't backup the whining!!! Also what is your big secret fork in the road you are threating us with, what is it that is such a big secret?


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## g/o

North Dakota is a big state and just because you feel there is to much pressure in your spot then move to another. In the southern part of the state we have absolutely zero pressure come Nov.1 when the ducks arrive. Of course the residents are to busy hunting crazy horns to hunt ducks. I know of only a few die hard resident waterfowl hunter who hunt this time of year. My favorite comment then is that they are to spooked and don't cooperate, they have been shot at two many times. Still not a quality hunt we want them dumber. Hmmm maybe they want high fence duck hunting????


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## KEN W

I'm just explaining what I have seen here in this area over the past 30 years.Having to guess.....I would say most of those Res. hunters 30 years ago were from larger cities.....I know a lot of Bismarck,Minot and Air Base hunters came here to hunt snows.But only on weekends.The ducks recieved very little pressure during the week.The motels were not full of hunters during the week.

Bad pressure is a relative term and means differently to each person.I don't think the pressure is bad here NOW.It was unbelieveable on weekends in the 70's.There were resident hunters everywhere within 10 miles of the refuge.

My dad would come and stay for a week and not see or hear anyone during the week.But on Saturdays and Sundays it was a race to get to a field.

As G/O says.....once deer seaon opens....no one is hunting waterfowl here either.I could shoot limits of ducks almost everyday.....just pass-shooting along the refuge fence.But this past year....they were all gone by then.the 2 years before....there were 10's of thousands.


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## Maverick

> So Mav are your folks retired aor how is it that your dad on a weekday happened to be out driving around in an area he planned to hunt on the weekend? Why if he had time to go out of his way to check the hunting area did not just go hunting there in the first place?


Not saying you don't know what living in the country is like, but I would guess that through this question that you don't know how to enjoy it. Ever herd of taking a drive. When you live in the country your hunting spots are not that far to drive. When living in the country you can take a 15 - 20 minute drive and check your fields, and still make it back to finish your day!!!! :eyeroll: :eyeroll: uke:



> But hey Mav just so you feel better we all have been aced out of spot we really wanted to hunt, I usually just go to plan B or punt, seems that is just the way things are in the world of hunting


Lets not change the subject. You are the one crying here and I am giving you facts. Take them as you want but I think you fall into this catergory


> The REAL question is will you as a NR believe the words of a small town local? Some how IMO you won't. That's where the problem is. We have people who live hundreds of miles away and they know it all!!!





> So what has changed?


 I all ready know the answer to that question...You don't that's the point. You figure it out and tell me. If you say "Nothing has changed" You know your wrong!!!


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## PSDC

There is one thing that has been bothering me for years.

Chuck, it is spelled field not "feild".

Sorry.


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## Chuck Smith

PSDC.....I know I always screw that you up. The written word or English was never a strong subject in school for me.


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## bandman

jd mn/nd said:


> Bandman I would say to you that with the pics you post of you and your equipment shown in the photos your not just hunting weekends either, no one dumps $15,000 into equipment like that to just shoot a few weekends in the month of October, no how naive do you think we are? I am not telling you how to govern anything what I have been asking for that not ONE single person has brought out yet, is statistical black and white proof of the supposed pressure all of you are whining about. As for my residing part it will be soon enough I too own property there as many of you know and I do pay my taxes as well as the rest of you do, I also work in an industry that affords me to able to make sure that I am selling things that keep jobs in ND, and I do as often as I can. As for your comment about being able to understand it yes it is difficult for me to wrap my mind around what all are saying as the black and whites don't backup the whining!!! Also what is your big secret fork in the road you are threating us with, what is it that is such a big secret?


1)oh if you only knew. A few weekends in October??? :withstupid: sorry but i waterfowl hunt every weekend from the 1st weekend in "Sept" till deer hunting starts & subsides"in late Nov" then i'm back at it in the late season till almost the "New Year!" I just wanted to clear that up. (not to mention ALL the weekdays i take off during those "4 months"!)
2)until you reside, save your thoughts (they'll have more meaning)
3)whining, i'm not even getting into that because thats your guys' only comeback! go back and read the facts and if you still don't get it or see where were coming from, i give up on you and your intellect.
4)fork in the road (there will be a change for the better in the future to protect those that live here "residents") when it will be, i don't know but it can't come soon enough! it's not whining, its just something that needs to be done for this state and your absolutely blind if you don't see that!

i just hope someday you can see these things through the eyes of the beholder.


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## Springerguy

Yessir, us NR just don't know diddly if we're not there. I didn't realize the state had changed that much.....I was only a resident for 30+ years. I bet some of the Whiners on this site aren't even 30 yrs old.

Maybe growing up in ND and having family gives me a leg up and it isn't the MN plates, but friends of mine here in MN are astounded at how easy it is to get access from the farmers in SE ND. Most of them are duck hunters and I don't doubt it for a minute. I don't hunt around DL or in the central part of the state but I would agree with g/o that you'd be hard pressed to find waterfowl hunters from early November to closing. I hunted snows/ducks last year during the opener of deer hunting and there was not ONE hunter that I ran into hunting waterfowl.........not ONE. So, when I run the BS flag up the pole it's based on personal experience. When I was back there over the week following pheasant opener I didn't have problems getting permission to hunt land that some of the farmers hunt themselves - they felt bad we couldn't hunt the PLOTS. Of course, being sincere in my appreciation for the access was probably a plus. Some of you guys need to travel a bit and I think you'd find the farming community in ND is decent at allowing folks to hunt. This constant attempt by the city boys at creating laws to limit access on their land isn't going to gain you access.....as seems to be proven by the ever increasing No Hunting signs.


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## bandman

jd nd/mn or whatever your name is: 
i read your post again to see you tried implying i hunt a lot during the week like you guys. sorry but the waterfowl pop. gets a break from me Monday-Thursday for the most part! not being a guide, having a full-time job and not being a millionaire is why that is. i would simply go broke if i hunted more than i did. (and the fact that there wouldn't be anyone to hunt with during the week b/c of the same reasons.) so do i pressure birds during the week? my answer for you is, NO! now pretty much every single weekend of the season is a different story and thats b/c thats what i can do and that's why i would never think of leaving this state!
hope that's clear.


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## Leo Porcello

It is funny because I have lived here now for almost 3 years and I don't feel I have a right to comment on a lot of this stuff because I know I am probably just a temp res even though I do hold res status yet just about every NR thinks they run this state and they think they should have a say how it runs. I am still confused by this.


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## KEN W

Springerguy.....who's whinning.Just giving an opinion.I also said there was no one hunting during deer season.It seems like when a non-res doesn't like what we say even though it is the truth,we are whinning.I think you should look a little closer to home.

What part of what I've said isn't true?????


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## djleye

> Some of you guys need to travel a bit and I think you'd find the farming community in ND is decent at allowing folks to hunt. This constant attempt by the city boys at creating laws to limit access on their land isn't going to gain you access.....as seems to be proven by the ever increasing No Hunting signs.


What makes you think people don't get out and do that?? Also, what makes you think that the posters are going up because of residents. Next you will tell me that is what the farmers tell you. Well, guess what, I could show you a posted sign that is intended for non residents for everyone you say is for residents from big bad Fargo!!

There are also a lot of guys that don't hunt on deer opener or anytime during deer season because there are a lot of people walking around with high powered rifles. Kind of scary to be out without orange at that time of year!!


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## KEN W

You know.....I love this big bad city arguement......But how many of the Minn NR come from the 7 county Minneapolis/St. Paul area?Or don't they get as much of a say in what goes on in Minnesota as out state people do???

It doesn't matter where someone comes from in ND does it?They are residents of ND and have 1 vote.And just as much of a say in what goes on in our state as I do living in small town Bottineau.They also provide a lot of services I can't get here.

So please stop with the big city crap. :eyeroll:


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## always_outdoors

> I was only a resident for 30+ years. I bet some of the Whiners on this site aren't even 30 yrs old.


The TRUTH comes out!!! Way to turn your back to the state of ND. What lake do you live on Springer? :eyeroll:

This is nothing more than "I want my cake and eat it too" mentality.

First he throws out the "I protected you as a serviceman so you could post on this site" card and now the "I was a resident for 30 yrs plus" card.

While I commend you and respect that you gave yrs to this great country as a soldier, I do not respect the fact that you chose to leave this state and now want all of its privileges.

It is like you think we owe it to you mentality.

BTW: I am over 30.


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## djleye

> I was only a resident for 30+ years. I bet some of the Whiners on this site aren't even 30 yrs old.


Some of us barely remeber 30!!!


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## KEN W

I'm over 30 also....a long ways over 30.

Come on back to ND.We would welcome an increase in ND population.


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## jd mn/nd

First off I would like to clarify one thing, no where in any post that has been made by me on this thread did I tell anyone or any state how to be run. I have on the other hand said that if ND requires certain things from me in order for me to hunt there that I would comply, and that if I or others did not like it we could find another state or country to go hunting in.

I do not live in the Minneapolis St.Paul metro area nor do I ever wish to. I live in the country on MY 32 acres that I manage for wildlife with food plots, habitat, both for nesting as well as for protection from predators. I live 20 miles from my work and commute everyday M-F. In the end I will reside in ND, I am not sure that even if I was a resident of ND that I would see things the way that some of think I would. You see I have a lot of relatives in ND, and many friends as well, one or two from this site even, not once have I ever heard any of this type of conversation from any of them, which would lead a person to believe that if I only hear it on this site and no where else even when I drive through ND with MN plates on my truck. My relatives all tell me that there does not seem to be an issue from their standpoint, and they all live in ND, some in small towns some in the bigger towns, none of them in the border towns.

Mav you did give me your opinion on a few different things but no where in your post did show me a statistical fact. I am glad that your folks are rural people and that they have the time to enjoy their area that they live in, however as I asked before if he has time to drive around why not just take that time to hunt? As for one other remark you made to me, YES I do take the word of a small town resident, as they seem to be some of the more honest people that I have met. The irony here is that my house in ND is in a VERY small town less than 200 population, I talk to all of the locals when I am in town and not one them has ever said to me the things you all try to shove down my throat or try to make me believe, as a matter of fact they usually come over to the house in the evenings and visit with us or have drinks or coffee or they sometimes bring over sweet treats, they are some of the most AWESOME people in the world!!!

Ok bandman, if you hunt every weekend by your own confession from Sept 1st to the end of Nov, that calculates out to roughly 36 days of hunting not including any time off that you make take from your job to do more hunting, also admitted by you in an earlier post. So let's review one more time here you hunted around 40 days and I hunted 5 days this past season, tell me who put more pressure on the resource during the hunting season?

I would also like to ask all of you to show me where I was whining in one post? I did and will continue to ask for some black and white facts on pressure to the resource, by NR's, but to date I have not seen one single statiscal fact showing me what I have been asking for, what I have gotten from all of you is a whole bunch of personal opinions, but no facts. All I have to do is go the photo album and look to see who has pics with 10-60 ducks and geese in the photos and see where they live and most of the real large harvest photos are from ND residents not NR's.

Verg as for the number of NR's only two years did hit 30,000 or right at it , the rest of the years have been below that number, but the bottom line is that in today's world there is still less hunters in ND than in 1975 when there was 73,000 hunters there, in 2005 there was only 53,000 so when you look at the bottom line that's 20,000 less hunters in the fields and water today than there was 30 years ago. So now we have a higher population of waterfowl, with less hunters. When you really cut away all of the emotions from the argument and look at the black and white figures printed by you own Game and Fish Department, your argument of pressure does not really stand up on it's own.

As for me I will not re-address any more posts on this topic unless someone has other proof of pressure with black and white figures to back up what they are saying, as the rest of it is clearly just a matter of opinion, and emotion.

Later JD

P.S. I too passed up 30 a while back.


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## g/o

> I'm over 30 also....a long ways over 30.


Yes Ken you and I are, but I don't know what that snot nosed kid djleye is talking about. :roll:


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## always_outdoors

> but the bottom line is that in today's world there is still less hunters in ND than in 1975 when there was 73,000 hunters there, in 2005 there was only 53,000 so when you look at the bottom line that's 20,000 less hunters in the fields and water today than there was 30 years ago.


JD: Most of those 73,000 hunters did not hunt the same way as the 53,000 did in 2005. You can't compare the pressure in the same light. How many times do we have to keep saying it.

You are talking about 73,000 that probably averaged no more than a few days in the field. Compared to the day after day pounding the birds see now. Not to mention the difference in decoys, mud motors, ATV's and everything else that gets hunters into areas that probably never saw pressure back in 1975.

You can however compare ND hunting of 1975 to what SD has right now and guess what? the birds are staying in SD because the vast majority of the hunters are resident hunters who do not pound on birds day after day.

We have shown the maps and yet you still don't want to believe it. You said you wanted proof and not opinions, but then you say that you believe what your family is telling you. Are they not sharing opinions as well?

I have tried posting everything I could post as well as many others. Yeah, I have gotten sarcastic as well. I will concede on that point, but I have a hard time believing that even if a biologist from ND GF and another from US FWS did get on here and present information, you wouldn't believe it either and we would all still be arguing with you.


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## KEN W

Off subject.....G/O.....how are the pheasants doing with all this snow?


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## g/o

So far ok but we are getting a bunch of snow, food is going to be tuff for them. If we get some warm temps we will be in good shape.


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## KEN W

Thanks.I would guess some in thin cover aren't going to make it.Supposed to snow for at least 2 days.


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## Maverick

> Mav you did give me your opinion on a few different things but no where in your post did show me a statistical fact.


I gave you word of mouth, from people who live in areas you are not!! Take it how you want!!Like I said before. Why should I when other people on here HAVE shown you facts.



> I am glad that your folks are rural people and that they have the time to enjoy their area that they live in, however as I asked before if he has time to drive around why not just take that time to hunt?


 Again I say that you do not know how to enjoy it ( but then you will say you do :eyeroll: ). If he sees a field does he have to hunt it? Does it sound more fun to spend a morning in the field with your son or friends( who can only make it out on weekends). Or would you be selfish and hunt it yourself, and ruin a possibility of an epic hunt! ( I am not calling you selfish but a selfish act if you choose to hunt every field you have scouted) ( which is what you are implying)



> YES I do take the word of a small town resident, as they seem to be some of the more honest people that I have met.


 I am throwing out the BS card there. I would bet money that if a small town local said he sees more pressure than he used to you would start off on your..." Show me actual physical proof"....well to that I say......come hunt with me some time.....or shut your mouth because I am saying as a son of a small town local. So why don't you believe me!



> The irony here is that my house in ND is in a VERY small town less than 200 population, I talk to all of the locals when I am in town and not one them has ever said to me the things you all try to shove down my throat or try to make me believe, as a matter of fact they usually come over to the house in the evenings and visit with us or have drinks or coffee or they sometimes bring over sweet treats, they are some of the most AWESOME people in the world!!!


The real irony is that you are basing your argument off the same word of mouth that I am.....There rests the irony!!!!!!


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## djleye

> Yes Ken you and I are, but I don't know what that snot nosed kid djleye is talking about.


 :lost: Not many people are as old as you Jim!!!!!! ( no offense Ken!!!  )
Rumor has it there is some dirt around that is younger than you Jim!! SNowing down there yet????


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## KEN W

JD....are those neighbors waterfowl hunters?If not they have no concept of hunting pressure.I also live in a small,but not as small a town as you stay.I have neighbors who I also think of as really nice people.But they don't have a clue as to waterfowl hunting.And the one living next door to me is a farmer in the area you hunt.To him water and ducks are a nuisance.Shoot them all would be his idea.

Almost all ND people are nice people.But so are most who live in Minnesota.All my realatives live there......Some have no idea about the real concept about any kind of hunting.....they wouldn't see a problem if there were 50 groups of hunters all sitting on one pothole.

So what does this have to do with hunting pressure?


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## g/o

> SNowing down there yet????


Oh ya, and the duckies will be able to fall in love again this spring. Ponds will have water in them, and Gandergrinder better find his best rubber booties for the spring hunt it will be muddy.


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## djleye

This last week or so just turned spring hunting into a young mans game again!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## bandman

well it was fun but his guy is done due to IQ level dropping rapidly. :homer: 
maybe some things aren't meant to be totally resolved. for the sake of going in a circle, i'll just call it good.


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## Springerguy

live2hunt,

Normally, when one serves in the military they do leave the state of ND. If serving in the military is turning my back on ND then so be it - but don't expect an apology from me. The Army was good enough to pay for my college and gave me a 20 yr. adventure as well - not always fun adventure but it wasn't dull for a minute. BTW, I did maintain my residency in ND while serving on active duty. And the only reason I played the military card is that you went on some rant about having priviledge since you pay taxes in ND, serve as EMT, etc. There are others that also serve the community just not in ND. Not sure where the "want my cake and eat in to" came from - I checked my responses on this thread and don't think I've stated that I should be treated like a resident. I think my point has been consistent - show some studies to support the need for limiting the number of NR's. And yes, I really did research using google before responding. I don't live on a lake but live next to a couple of lakes here in Wright county - yes, within the seven county metro area. - I don't think my residing here in MN is any secret based on my responses - although I will probably retire to ND at some point, too far down the road to comprehend.

It's obvious that we could debate this subject and, in the end, just agree to disagree. I'll move on since I really don't want to spend my time on this site ticking folks off. Good hunting.


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## mallard

djleye said:


> This last week or so just turned spring hunting into a young mans game again!!!!!!!!!!!!


Speak for yourself Dan.And here I thought you were in good physical condition.


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## djleye

I am, I just don't want to have to drag Aaron and Monte around when they collapse!!!!!

What was it Lars and Monte were going to put on their t-shirts......"I beat anorexia, One buffet at a time"!!!!!


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## Field Hunter

Pretty sure I can outlast the eye doctor......I can't wait for all that mud in the Spring.


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## g/o

> I just don't want to have to drag Aaron and Monte around when they collapse!!!!!


No one is that stong to drag either one of them out!! You would have to call for a helicopter, best bet would leave them, the yotes will clean em up!!! :roll:


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## Field Hunter

What are you implying?


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## g/o

Field Hunter said:


> What are you implying?


That you are in about the same physical condition I'm in.


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## djleye

> Pretty sure I can outlast the eye doctor......I can't wait for all that mud in the Spring.


I'll take that bet!!!! :lol:

Aren't you the same guy that always wanted to drive the vehicle during deer hunting while we walked "another slough bottom"!!!!


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## Ihuntnfish

If I collapse close to water you could float me out!!!!!!


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## djleye

We'll just have to make damn sure we have the Otter sled with on these trips!!!! :lol:


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## Leo Porcello

You guys find the birds and I will be your mule!


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## djleye

That is mallards job!!!!!!! No where to be seen during Delta meetings but when it's hunting season, he sure can find birds. (just kidding Dean)

I think he smells 'em!!!


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## mallard

I would'nt mind hunting with chopper,as long as he does'nt do his Delta dance :rollin: .G/O,Do you have a tractor with front end assist? Of course you would not want to tear up your fields dragging Monte, and Aaron out.
Last spring Monte was commenting on the tough field conditions while Chris drove his truck into the field (jk).
By the way Lars may have me beat on the "smelling the birds".At least with pheasants.


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## Leo Porcello

mallard said:


> I would'nt mind hunting with chopper,as long as he does'nt do his Delta dance :rollin: .


 :lol: Dress me in white, I will do the dance and the snows will drop in like never seen before! 8)


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## jumper

I have juist read many of the articles by res and nr. I am not from nd but for any nr to believe they have some right to hunt in another state, come on its time to wake up. If you locals want to limit nr do it. Its your state. Maybe you should just out law guides these are mostly used by nr anyway and they are the ones that ty up the land. Hunting with a guide is not hunting anyway and is not a positive for the sport.


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