# Can 'o worms...crossbreeding?



## 94NDTA (May 28, 2005)

What is everyones opinion on cross breeding? Not for financial gains, but to be more suited for what you do.

I have had a lot of people argue that the dogs we have to today have been breed to perfection and cannot be bettered.

For example, I would like a larger pointing breed. Something that has the size of a retreiver, but the ability to point as well as a pointer/setter. Something that would work well in cat tails and have the ability to point very well. Something suited for ND.

Just a though, what are your thoughts on the subject?

FYI, I am not a breeder, and do not plan on mixing breeds. Just want your opinions on it.


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## fishless (Aug 2, 2005)

Sounds like you need a gsp!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

a DD or a wirehair would fit your demand,

no dog performs in the uplands like a pointer or a setter....... but the DD/wires are pretty much a perfect fit for ND terrain and very good dogs


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

GWPs are very versatile too.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Fishless,

That is a great picture. I love to hunt pheasants, but there is just something about the sharpies. Maybe it is because they are a native bird. Love the close pic with the open prairie and the sky in the backround!!!! I would blow that up and put it on the wall if I was you!!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

To hunt with a dog is indescribable for me. To work as a team each knowing full well what is expected of each other, always engaged in some form of communication. We recognize their signals and the more they know we are paying attention to their communications the more they will communicate with us.

My dog would point while in the back of the pikup going down the road, he smelled birds and I was smart enough to let him lead me to them. It's just unbelievable. I have had it real good guys.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

94NDTA said:


> What is everyones opinion on cross breeding? Not for financial gains, but to be more suited for what you do.
> 
> I have had a lot of people argue that the dogs we have to today have been breed to perfection and cannot be bettered.
> 
> ...


I"ll throw in my two cents worth here..... First of all, the title of your thread suggests crossbreeding, but in your text you said you do not plan on mixing breeds.......that's what crossbreeding is....it's breeding two dogs of different breeds. An outcross is breeding two dogs of the same breed that are not closely related.

You state that you would like a larger dog that points like a setter or pointer and one that can work the cattails, and one suited for ND. That's a fairly large bill to fill!! So, what you are looking for is a big dog that points and I'm assuming can withstand the harsh conditions (cold, snow, etc.). Cattails are a very tough challenge for a pointing dog. I'm sure there are pointing dogs that are effective in cattails, but I would think a flushing breed would be better suited for that type of cover.

The problem with crossbreeding, if that's what you are thinking about, is that you don't know what you might get from the offspring. As an example, you could cross a Chessie with a Pointer to hopefully get a bigger dog that points and has the coat to withstand ND hunting conditions, but the pups may end up with short hair, no pointing instinct, but great retrievers (basically a short haired flushing dog), or you could end up with exactly what you are looking for.....a big dog with the Chessie coat, the retrieving instincts of a Chessie and the pointing instincts of a Pointer.. Crossbreeding is a crapshoot (and can be an expensive one). You would need to keep all of the pups in the litter to see how they develop and then what do you do with the pups that don't have what you are looking for?

I've often thought about crossing a Chessie with a Springer in hopes that I'd get a dog bigger than a Springer but smaller than a Chessie with the Chessie coat and retrieve with the Springer drive and quartering instincts but I'm not prepared to deal with the outcome if I didn't get what I was looking for........

I don't know as today's breeds have been bred to perfection........ Each breed has it's faults. If they were bred to perfection we would not have genetic problems (hips, eyes, etc.) to deal with. I doubt if any breed will ever be bred to perfection.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

P.S. Of course most all of our current gundog breeds were developed as a result of cross breeding at one time or another. The current "Red Setter" is the result of Irish Setters being crossed with English Setters. The Llewellin Setter was developed by crossing English Setters with Gordon Setters. Gordon Setters are said to have been crossed with a Collie. Who knows what went on "out behind the barn" as far as cross breeding goes. I've heard it said that today's Field-bred English Springer was the result of "Out behind the barn" breeding with some border collies (to improve the trainability and intelligence). Are all of these stories true? I have no idea, but they are certainly possible.

From what I read the old time breeders were ruthless in their culling of pups that did not match what they were looking for. Purcell Llewellin kept only 5 pups from each litter. At birth pups were separated by color and sex and all but 5 were done away with. I personally could not do that, but it was commonplace years ago.

Cross breeding is openly going on today with many breeds.... Just look in the newspaper and you'll see "cockapoos", "labradoodles", etc. advertised for sale. Many of your little lapdogs are crossbred.....I see "Puggles" advertised (beagles crossed with pugs) quite often.. Then there a "Schnoodles" (Schnauzer/poodle cross), "Peek a Poo" .....the list goes on and on. And these "mutts" sell for a pretty good price! I'm waiting for someone to cross a bulldog with a shih tzu. :wink:

I see nothing wrong with cross breeding as long as the pups end up in good homes.


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## MN goose killa (Sep 19, 2008)

fishless said:


> Sounds like you need a gsp!


no matter how off topic this is that is a sick picture and nice dog.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Wirehair or Draathar or how about.... a Pointing Lab.


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