# Hen Limit for 2008?



## Oregon Duck (Jan 16, 2008)

Sorry if this has already been discussed, but I am new to this board. I have hunted in ND for about 30 years, and have bunch of good friends there, and want to keep coming back! We had a heck of a time with the one hen limit this year, and wonder, is there any movement to change it to 2 for 2008? It's really hard early season to tell the difference, especially field hunting when the birds work best at first and last light. What are everyone's thoughts on this? I sent a mesage to F&G re my thinking, and how hard it makes the mallard hunting.
Look forward to October 2008! Again, I apologize if this has been discussed, and I do think we should pass on hens whenever we are able to tell.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

ND along with other states in the Central Flyway are currently involved with a Fed bag limit study. I do believe it is at minimum a 3 years study. The study is being conducted to see if this helps in reducing pressure on pintails and cans as other ducks in a liberal package season.

Our trade off for this is no shortened season on Cans and Pins as has been the case in years prior. No more end of Oct closing on these two species.

From my understanding the intent is to continue with the HC program depending upon the Fed season and limits.


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## Oregon Duck (Jan 16, 2008)

THANKS, RON. I HAD BEEN TOLD IT WAS A ONE YEAR VOLUNTARY REG. I DON'T KNOW WHAT EVERYONE THINKS, BUT IT'S SURE A LOT HARDER FOR A NODAK HUNTER IN EARLY FALL THAN A FELLOW DOWN FLYWAY LATER SEASON. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTION IS, BUT IT CAN BE FRUSTRATING WHEN THE DUCKS STOP DECOYING BOUT THE SAME TIME YOU CAN CLEARLY I'D THEM. BUT, IF IT HELPS THE NUMBERS, SO BE IT. THANKS AGAIN.


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## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

I know that we have had days where you just can't cut into a flock of mallards, sometimes you may only get one easily identifiable drake in a flock of 10, so you spend a lot of time looking and not much shooting. In the long run though I think the benefits outweigh the costs. I would give up plenty of early season limits just for one nice late November Pintail and that is not possible with the old rules. Personally I like the rules.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

We've had 200 birds come at us and we opened up and only dropped one each because we couldn't pick out drakes easy enough. Sucks but I think it will have a good impact on the population to have some more Suzy's around.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Out here where I hunt, thats all we see are hens, very few drakes. It really sucks.


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## northerngoosehunter (Mar 22, 2006)

The one hen a day limit has made the Hen mallard the easiest bird in the flyway to decoy. Seems as if every hunt we had Hens hanging out in the decoys whether it was water or field. They do make for a nice decoy and are better callers than any of us, but I always wonderd do they qualify as an illegal "live decoy".


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## headshot (Oct 26, 2006)

> but I always wonderd do they qualify as an illegal "live decoy".


Just don't tie it on. :beer:


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## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

I just tie a five foot string on them to make my spinner decoy.


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## crewhunting (Mar 29, 2007)

yea i dont like this rule i am a guide and try sitting ina feild out there in no dake and watching all those birds over herd and to pick the birds out for the client its way hard if it was to you would have some lee way i alwayhs tell them to shoot at the drakes but its always the hens that fall some people say they can id birds but they cant soo it makes it hard. I am not asking it to be like canada shot whatever fly it would be nice haveing an eight mallard limmit and no restrictions.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

crewhunting said:


> yea i dont like this rule i am a guide and try sitting ina feild out there in no dake and watching all those birds over herd and to pick the birds out for the client its way hard if it was to you would have some lee way i alwayhs tell them to shoot at the drakes but its always the hens that fall some people say they can id birds but they cant soo it makes it hard. I am not asking it to be like canada shot whatever fly it would be nice haveing an eight mallard limmit and no restrictions.


You will not get any sympathy from me! Might be worth the extra few minutes to educate your clients, or find out if they can ID birds, instead of assuming they can. If I can do it with youth, surely a experienced guide can do this with an adult!!


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## sdsufowler (Mar 22, 2007)

Keeping the Hen limit at one is a great opportunity for hunters to help ID birds on the fly. I am no expert at identifying ducks on the fly, but since the regs came into effect I think before I pull the trigger. I have become a much better hunter because of it taking drakes only. Meanwhile, for those mornings when the mallards are working the deeks at the crack of dawn I doesnt matter to me if I shoot the birds. It is just breathtaking to see how spectacular the sight is off all those birds working. Even if they are just hens. You dont have to shoot your limit to appreciate waterfowl. It all about getting outdoors and having wildlife around for the future.


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## crewhunting (Mar 29, 2007)

Yea i love watching bird early but when a person i payi0ng five hundrend dollars a day they want to shoot thing and my self i can tell everyone how to id a drake but when they are paying that kind of money they want to shoot and ask questions later i reccomend them shooting drakes but like i said if i had some le way on a two bird limit it would make things alot easier.


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

What a ridiculous argument...we pay a lot of money so we should be able to just shoot without having to ID first...wow!

I can see the argument that the whole flyway should be doing it (I don't think they are anyway), not just ND because yes our birds are pretty brown early in the year. That being said, what is wrong with having to spend a little more time in the blind because you have to pick your shots carefully or having to go home a couple birds short of a limit because you couldn't just blast away?

I personally think the season has been opening too early lately (like the 23rd or 24th of Sept) - the birds are too brown. Move it back a week and still have the res. only week. If people are concerned that all the teal will be gone with a later opener, have a teal season in mid-september.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

crewhunting said:


> yea i dont like this rule i am a guide and try sitting ina feild out there in no dake and watching all those birds over herd and to pick the birds out for the client its way hard if it was to you would have some lee way i alwayhs tell them to shoot at the drakes but its always the hens that fall some people say they can id birds but they cant soo it makes it hard. I am not asking it to be like canada shot whatever fly it would be nice haveing an eight mallard limmit and no restrictions.











If you want to promote shooting at targets you cant identify that's your issue. Maybe we should not worry about buck or doe tags for deer either. It's just too hard to notice antlers sometimes when the lighting isn't right.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I think what crewshooter maybe be saying is that some poeple have a hard time picking out a drake when they are coming in so fast, laying down in a blind. I am not giving a reason to shoot all of the hens, but I think that is what he is saying. I personally think that the hen limit should be 2, because 80% of the ducks I saw this year where hens, its hard to convince somebody to help but out 6 dozen deke and only be able to take home one duck. You maybe be thinking that I cannot identify the ducks, but that was the problem that everybody had hunting where I was. Also when taking a kid out hunting for the first time and expect him to only shoot the drakes, when they still look like hens. It just doesnt work.


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## crewhunting (Mar 29, 2007)

Did i say shoot before id no i said that it would make my job easier all of my clients come in and say that can shoot and pick out drake and well the ones that say they cant you have to hold them back and not let them shoot and well when there is flock of one hundred two hundred you know how bird are crossing all over the place you tell them to shoot one drake and the other birds pass amd its a hen I need that lee way so i can stay leagel i was just saying it would make my job easier. i can id bird but one example i was guiding these guys from south and they claimed they could pick out drake t=because they shoot 1500 ducks a year and what are the first two ducks they shoot hens. I am jsut saying it would really help us out i am not promoting shooting hens and i can id birds i am just saying it would help.. Yes i am saying shoot everything that move is that what i said not!!!!!!!!!! i dont have the mado if it flies it dies or if its brown its down many people do but i dont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

Just curious, if you are guiding and one of your 'clients' shoots too many hens, does the guide get in trouble too or just the shooter?

What is easiest is not always best. If you are so worried about it you should probably make sure your clients know the rules before they book and maybe you should explain to them that they are going to have to show some restraint just so they know when they get to your camp that they aren't just going to be able to go out and blast everything.


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## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

blhunter3 said:


> Also when taking a kid out hunting for the first time and expect him to only shoot the drakes, when they still look like hens. It just doesnt work.












This was a youth hunt with a first time duck hunter. He didn't shoot a single hen mallard. 3 drakes, a pinny, and a gadwall. It wasn't that hard to tell him which one was a drake.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Did you read you whole post? I stated that about 80% of the ducks we saw where hens. I'm not saying that its hard to identify ducks but for some people, they get cuaght up in the moment and shot at the closest birds. I know that I have done it. Has anyone ever got buck fever? That is what it is like for a first time hunter when he sees the duck coming in he isnt worried about what sex ithe duck is, he/she is thinking about which one is the easiest shot. There for a 2 hen limit would be nice for them. Also there are so many people that only shoot drakes and won't ever think about taking a hen, so why not give those people who go out just a few times and only get a chance at shooting hens, to be able to shoot 2 instead of just one. I had a thread about is it ok to shoot hens. Well it is ok and I had some people knock me for it, but those are the only ducks that we had come within shooting range. And once you shoot your one hen a day limit basicly our hunt for ducks was over. 2 hen limit would be so nice. :2cents:


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

blhunter3 said:


> Did you read you whole post? I stated that about 80% of the ducks we saw where hens. I'm not saying that its hard to identify ducks but for some people, they get cuaght up in the moment and shot at the closest birds.


First of all if you saw a decent amount of birds I am highly doubtfull that 80% were hens. Trying to justify more liberal laws, especially in hunting, because people "get caught up in the moment," is flat out stupid. Deer hunters "get caught up in the moment," and shoot horses or other hunters, I suppose they are justified in their actions.

I'm pretty sure the kid in goosebusters pic was hunting the ND youth hunt, and from what i remember of the story he wasn't very experienced. If you found tougher to ID birds from 2 weeks later and on in the MN season then I am very suprised about that. Sometimes light conditions make it tough. I cant count the # of flocks that were on the deck at less then 10 yards that we didn't shoot into early in the season because of ID uncertainty. That's hunting.


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## cgreeny (Apr 21, 2004)

It was a little easier on a guy when he was allowed the 2 hens and a pintail, but with these new rules it will keep more hens on the nests this spring, if these guys are having so much trouble killing to many hens, have them hunt in canada where they could shoot 8 hens if they wanted to. No restrictions up there on mallards


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## Horker23 (Mar 2, 2006)

I think crewhunter should read or run his replys through spell check before he posts. Its Called Grammer Guide :roll:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I was talking about getting nervous, before the shot, not shooting horses, cow,etc. I waws talking about getting so excited and nervous and forgetting to sex the duck thats coming in. I remember the first duck that I shot, and thats what happend to me and talking to the kids that I have taken out they say the same thing. I personally dont have a problem picking out hens/drakes, I think that I would having a two hen limit would benefit the younger kids or the people who get out like once or twice a year and they dont see that many ducks and if they shoot their one hen they are have to be really careful about the next shots.


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## crewhunting (Mar 29, 2007)

blhunter3 said:


> I was talking about getting nervous, before the shot, not shooting horses, cow,etc. I waws talking about getting so excited and nervous and forgetting to sex the duck thats coming in. I remember the first duck that I shot, and thats what happend to me and talking to the kids that I have taken out they say the same thing. I personally dont have a problem picking out hens/drakes, I think that I would having a two hen limit would benefit the younger kids or the people who get out like once or twice a year and they dont see that many ducks and if they shoot their one hen they are have to be really careful about the next shots.


Finnally someone that agrees soo are you all going to bash him now for having the same ideas as me. About the question i get a ticket as well as the client. Unless the guide calls them in. i havent had to call anyone in yet. some of you guy dont read the hole post and well before basing some open your eyes and read.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I remeber about 5 hunts when this topic comes up.

USA and I were out on opening weekend we had hundreds of ducks on us all night. LET THEM LAND. If they are sitting 5 yards away you will be able to pick out the drakes. SOme of the drakes were walking around 10 feet away, and it was still hard to tell the difference. Had to look at beaks.

Heck if you go out and have hundreds of birds on you all night who cares if you pull the trigger? I think the only person in our spread that night that was having a problem with it was the dog. He had birds walking around 10 feet from him! He was going nuts.

$500 a day? Do you think one of the reasons they are so concerned with killing is because they only hunt a couple times a year?

I personally don't have a problem with the limit. It puts an extra challenge on hunting. Otherwise we would have people just pulling the trigger when ducks come in, then trying to figure out what they killed. Thats what goose hunting is for! :lol:

I think all in all it is a great thing. Does the one hen limit worry me? At times yes. When you have Giant flocks on you and you are trying to call one drake shots it is hard. There was times where 3 ducks would fall from a shot. ONce you drop a hen you have to wait for a drake to get alone.

Don't get me wrong I have shot hens, but I try my darndest not to!


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

blhunter3 said:


> I think that I would having a two hen limit would benefit the younger kids or the people who get out like once or twice a year and they dont see that many ducks and if they shoot their one hen *they are have to be really careful about the next shots*.


You say the bolded as if its a big problem. So yeah, they got "nervous" and made a mistake and pulled the trigger on something they didn't ID. They get that one oops legally. Why is it a problem to make them ID the rest of the birds they shoot at afterwards?

I'm not saying I dont occasionally hit suzies on accident... it happens, just not twice in a day. During tough light conditions in early season when everything looks like a hen its tough to not pick out a little trait in one and make a mistake. It also happens sometimes when a big flock is on top of you and there are multiple birds lined up in your firing line or width of your pattern. Doesn't mean you cant hold off the trigger until you find a drake with a clear shot by itself.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I see your point in identifying the birds completly, but for some reason where I was hunting, we saw basicly all hens. It was really weird. it would have been nice to be able to be able to shoot two hens. Even is the spring and summer when I was working in the feilds I hardly ever saw a drake. hopefully it will be different next year. We both have different opinions and the DNR will figure out what is right.


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## crewhunting (Mar 29, 2007)

quote
($500 a day? Do you think one of the reasons they are so concerned with killing is because they only hunt a couple times a year? )

YEs five hundred a day. THats what we charge. ANd well just like you say a couple times a year they hunt. That is why they cant id a bird. And that is why a two hen limit would be nice. Like i said i can id a bird and all of my hunting partners can. And i hunt jsut like you guys do shoot the drakes, but when it come to people not being out all the time it just makes my job harder than it already is. Haveing them rookie hunters out there id a bird isnt the only thing you always have to worry, gun saftey is huge. my buddy got shot at once some of these people claim they can hunt. BUt my 13 year old cousin have but gun knowledge them some one my clients.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Heck I think it makes your job easier. Once they shoot there hen, take thre gun! Or let them shoot two hens, then call the warden.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

hunt4P&Y said:


> Heck I think it makes your job easier. Once they shoot there hen, take thre gun! Or let them shoot two hens, then call the warden.


That'll be another $500 not to call the warden. :lol:


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## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

For 500 bucks they could just watch the first 3000 ducks work the decoys and get used to identifying waterfowl, then when the sun is up a little more they could start shooting when the next 7000 ducks hit the dekes!!

The kid that I brought out had never shot a duck in his life and he had no problems with identification. You just have to let him know which birds are drakes and he was able to start doing it on his own after the first couple flocks.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

I understand now... These people are "special" and have special needs. Hell, they have to be to pay you $500 dollars for a days hunting.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Some of us do not have the luxury of having that many ducks in one place. We are luck to get a shot a three flock, mainly those flocks range from 3-10 birds.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

But if you pay $500 thats the case!


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Well fargo is LOADED with ducks so I guess i'm a lucky guy... :lol:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

If I had the oppertunity to get where the ducks are I would but working on a dairy farm really limits what I can do.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Yeah, its a little harder to get out as much when you're in the real world. That is why I plan to stay in college as long as possible :beer:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

That is one idea, or you could be a hunting guide?


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Nahh he woulden't make it! 8)


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Says the guy with my dog in the avatar and my dekes in the sig... Makes me proud.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

:lol:


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

USAlx50 said:


> Says the guy with my dog in the avatar and my dekes in the sig... Makes me proud.


You can clearly see about 3 bigfoots.....


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Gotta make bigfoot feel good once in awhile 8)


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

blhunter3 said:


> Gotta make bigfoot feel good once in awhile 8)


OUCH!

I like my big foots throw them in the trailer and don't worry about it! Although I now have about 5 times as many Avery's then foots. :x

I guess I will have to wait for someone to sell some foots!


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

TANATA said:


> USAlx50 said:
> 
> 
> > Says the guy with my dog in the avatar and my dekes in the sig... Makes me proud.
> ...


I noticed that as well, seems to me I own more then 3 bigfoots. If I remember correctly that day we didn't bring any of you or Mikes dekes, just Casey's trailer. Not that any of this matters :wink:


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Nahh we put mine in the front. I have pics from that day with my motion foots. When I get out of class I will get them up. Man I should be taking notes right now...


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Hmm. you are correct sir. I dont really care, just givin you $hit.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Just giving ya shat man. I have used bigfoots in the past and have shot geese and ducks over them. I just like the more varity of poses that other brands give ya. Only if those other brands could make their dekes as durable as them bigfoots.


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## CuttinDaisies (Nov 15, 2007)

goosebusters said:


> This was a youth hunt with a first time duck hunter. He didn't shoot a single hen mallard. 3 drakes, a pinny, and a gadwall. It wasn't that hard to tell him which one was a drake.


Good for the kid and all. But I sure hope thats a drake gadwal and a drake pintail. Hens of non-mallard species lay eggs too.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I thought that only hen mallards layed the eggs :wink:


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## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

The pinny was a drake (easily identifiable and a perfect fulfillment of the hunter's choice) and the gadwall was unidentifiable at that point, too young. I was not in the spread when the flock of gadwalls came in and the other adult in the group told him to shoot one. I don't know why when there were thousands of "never seen a decoy" mallards in the area. It did have some rust on the shoulders, but a mature hen would too.  I don't know then.


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## Oregon Duck (Jan 16, 2008)

Maybe when the three years runs out they would consider a 2 hen mallard limit for the first couple weeks of the season, or some sort of trade off like they have now, e.g., no pinnie if you shoot 2 hens. I get worked up at the ''if it's brown'' crowd, and the ''ethic'' should be let em live. All the research shows that hens suffer huge mortality at nesting, brooding, and we all no boy ducks are quite capable of keping a harem. However, you just can't tell some days. I don't care what someone pays, or doesn't pay,but I really think early season it's not doable to I'D drake/hen ducks and still have a decent chance of a legal bag. If it's a big group, you can work the law of averages, but if your alone or just a couple guys, you don't have any margin for error. In fact, at first light or in a snow storm, dark day..., it's hard even later in the year. I hunted a lot this year, and about Dec. 1 I decided ''no more hens''-- when I can tell. I only shot 2-3 more hens of all species out of prolly 50 or more ducks after that date. A guy who shoots a few times a year, then yeah, if he wants to shoot a hen, I don't see a problem. We get 7 ducks in the Pac flway, but to me, 5 drakes is a lot better than 6- 7 W/ hens of whatever species in your bag, just so I can say '' I shot my limit.''


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

Right on brother.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I would love a two hen limit. Just for the fact when I take kids out hunting for either youth opener or just to take them out. I encourage them to id the ducks before hand, but sometimes there it just to much going on and they forget about males and females. I am only 19 but the first duck I ever shot was a hen. I didn't even remember to sex the duck, all I remember was watching that duck come in a a flock or mallards, I watched it and lined up my shot and bang.


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## theodore (Nov 3, 2007)

I know you guys realize predators take way more hens than hunters ever will. I think it is time for everybody to push as much trapping and other predator control as we can. If states and feds put up fencing and trapped inside it would really boost localized production. I dont think hunter take of hens is significant compared to habitat loss and predation. Even if hunters could somehow not take any hens, duck nos. continent wide are falling.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

All the more reason to shoot fewer hens. But I agree there are some other very large issues that must be addressed.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I am doing my best to keep them critters from eating the duck, goose, and pheasant eggs. But you right, we need more trappers.


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## Feather Freeks (Jan 21, 2008)

Leave the Limit of Hens to 1 i'd say. after all, they are the wonderful creatures that give us new, and more ducks to shoot the next year right? and ducks are polygamous, one drake can have his way with like 10 hens if he so chooses, and that leaves possibility to create more drakes!


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