# Libby



## 280IM (Mar 28, 2005)

GWB took away the jail time for Libby but left the conviction. Do you think this is right?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

No I don't agree, he should have a complete pardon. He didn't spill the beans, he just couldn't remember all events. I sure would hate to be prosecuted for something I couldn't remember. I would be in prison for life. It was just a political witch hunt anyway. The prosecutor had the answers before he asked them, so he was just playing games. He should be disbarred, because he is no different than the guy in the Lacrosse case. Or whatever game they were playing.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

:beer:

The fact is that Libby was prosecuted following an investigation of an action that did not constitute a crime under our laws. The special prosecutor pretended to be looking for the person who had "leaked" Valerie Plame's name to the media ... I say he "pretended" because he knew the identity of that person from the beginning of his investigation. Patrick Fitzgerald packed the Beltway jury with people not exactly in love with George Bush, and then set Libby up as the symbol of the Bush Administration.

Bush has righted a wrong. What's more, he has figuratively flipped off his leftist critics. Gotta love it.

One of the few things Bush has done half correct lately.

I hope he has the guts to give him a full pardon at the end of his term.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

I think a Full Pardon will be in his future.

Per my previous thread regarding this issue ...

"What was that about Martha Stewart" ...

You all know what I think of this Debacle of the Legal System. :eyeroll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Sorry guys but your reasonong is shakey.From everything I've ever read.....the first rule for an attorney in court is "don't ask a question you don't know the answer to."

And what attorney doesn't try to pack a jury with people he thinks will give him the verdict.Wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't.

It is a shame that a president can overrule the court system like that.Why bother having trials.Don't get me wrong.....every president issues pardons the last day in office.I guess if I were ever arrested.....I better hope I know the president or am rich like Paris Hilton.At least the judge could overrule that one.

He was found guilty and should be in jail.This was purely political.Even conserative talking heads think it was.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

KEN W

This sort of thing does nothing to help the country.

How much testimony will any court be able to get from folks if the person on the witness stand must FIRST fear the court itself.

Any case situated around things Political will be viewed by witnesses as a potential land mine zone where they themselves migh be seen as the easiest target when nothing else about the primary focus of the case can be found.

And *especially* in a case like this one where it was never a case of looking to find a leak ... since everyone knew who the leak was before Libby even took the stand.

Much easier to simply claim "The Fifth" as opposed to putting yourself in the land mine zone.

Then I suppose you could wind up like Susan McDougal and jailed anyway ... but her failure to tesify was at least a clear and unfettered obstruction of the case in question.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ken, the conservative talking heads that I listened to all agree it was purely political and should never have happened. Clinton lied to a grand jury and wasn't even slapped on the wrist. This sure is a double standard the liberals are handing us.



> From everything I've ever read.....the first rule for an attorney in court is "don't ask a question you don't know the answer to."


Then they are not looking for the truth, but simply witch hunting. That is a really bad attitude. I can see where they would use it to trip up a murderer or something, but this attorney had all the answers he needed, he was just a jerk looking to make a name for himself and create political damage. Justice was the furthest thing from this political hatchet man's mind.



> It is a shame that a president can overrule the court system like that.


It's his constitutional right. Clinton did it as much or more than any other president, I didn't hear any liberal complaints then. Come on guys lets judge these people by what they do, not simply complain if they are on one side of the political isle or the other. It's just so obvious when you want your cake and you want to eat it too.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman and Decoy.....I agree in that it shouldn't matter if you are liberal or conservative.Clinton surely did it also.....doesn't make it right.He was found guilty by 12 picked jururs.....should be in jail.

I love the attitude.....if the other side does it.....we should do it also.

To me it is disgraceful to commute a sentence whether political or because you are a rich brat and sit in jail crying for your mommy.Favoritism shouldn't be allowed in the decision of whether you go to jail or not.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I love the attitude.....if the other side does it.....we should do it also.


Oh, that's not my attitude. I was looking at it this way. The liberals defended Clinton, but now they whine about Libby who's transgressions don't come close to Clintons in seriousness. Clinton perjured himself to hide his behavior. Therein lies the hypocrisy. They either both go to jail, or neither should. Do you think after these two we can start a new slate. I doubt it. 
Libby couldn't remember and admitted it. The prosecutor in this case simply kept asking and asking questions until Libby got one wrong. This could happen to you or I. I don't know about you, but my memory is far from perfect.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Clinton issued 140 pardons on his last day including one for Marc Rich who was a fugitive in hiding.The practice should be outlawed.

At least Libby paid his fine yesterday out of his own pocket.That's something anyway.But him as well as the rest of them should be in jail.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't know how I feel about pardons. Governors can do it also. Clinton nearly outright sold some of his pardons. His brother was paid for securing a pardon, and one lady gave a million dollars to the Clinton library and message parlor. The miraculously her husband was pardoned. 
Hillary was cornered about this the day before yesterday. It was a replay of "I don't recall".
I wish there were some standards to make sentences more uniform. Clinton got by easy and Libby got pounded. Something in between I think would have been correct. I also wish I knew if Libby actually lied or could not remember. Something perhaps only he knows.


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