# MOA



## autockr01 (Jul 14, 2005)

I'm new to the rifle shooting scene and I'm just curious: Do most rifles perform at or under 1 MOA. So let me get this straight, a 1 MOA rifle is capable of shooting a grouping within an inch at 100 yards? Im thinking about getting a Savage 111FCXP3 in the 30-06. Would this rifle be within 1 MOA? Let me know if I'm not making sense or anything. Thanks!!


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

I believe that most modern production rifles are capable of very close to, if not, one MOA. There are however, many variables to consider. Ammunition, I think, would be the first. A carefully tailored handload will very often enhance a rifles accuracy to a great extent. Having said that, modern factory ammunition has become so good, that it is often difficult to reach an equal level of accuracy and consistency even with the best handloads. All rifles do not shoot well with all loads, so it is often necessary to try quite a few, before finding the best one for you. Next, consider the type, quality, and mounting of the scope you have chosen. Again, most are good, but many are better. I have found that with optics, you very often get what you pay for. Enough on that. Consider also, that your ability as a shooter will have a great deal to do with your rifle's accuracy potential. I have known some fine game shots who just could not shoot well from a bench. Nor did most of them care to. A simple sight-in suffices for these types, yet when presented with a shot, the game is all but in the freezer. The above are just a very few thoughts on things that may affect the accuracy of any given rifle. There are a great many more factors to consider, and so much has been written on the subject, by so many authors whose pool of knowledge will put my simple thoughts to shame. I'll just stop here and encourage you to read essays on the subject by authors such as Boddington, Carmichael, VanZwoll and Tubb. Rifle shooting is like a great many things in life. It can be as simple, or as fancy as you like, or your budget will allow. To answer your questions more directly; Yes, one MOA would indicate a rifles ability to group it's shots within one inch at one hundred yards. Savage has a reputation for putting out very accurate firearms at a reasonable price. Yes, I would think that the 111FXP3 in '06 would be capable of shooting one MOA or better with the right load. Forgive my ramble, but rifle accuracy intrigues me and accurate rifles really get my interest. Always consider safety first, when shooting and enjoy your new rifle. Burl


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## autockr01 (Jul 14, 2005)

Thanks, Burly, for the very thorough reply. I really respect those who know their stuff well enough to give such helpful and understandable info. Getting off topic, what are some good brands/types of scopes? And what are the applications for a mil-dot scope? Should I get one? Do I need one? Thanks!


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

As Burl said there are many factors that affect accuracy. I recently sold a Winchester 300WM that I could could shoot consistent 3/4" groups at 100 yards with, using my reloads. The guy that bought it can't do better than 1 1/2", but then he is inexperienced and uses the cheapest ammo he can find. The Savage you mentioned should be capable of MOA. My new 10FP 308 shot just under an inch from the factory with Black Hills ammo. I added a better stock and bedded it and it will now shoot 1/2 MOA sometimes better.

As to a scope, spend as much as you can afford to spend, don't go cheap. Mildots can be used for quick hold over points if you practice doing it alot . And they can be used to determine range if you have the time to learn how. For most people Mildots are useless, but they look cool. 8) Seriously, the scope you get will depend on the type of shooting you are going to do. For most people a variable works best, 3X or 4x on the low end and 10X to 16X for the high, try to keep the objective at 40mm to 42mm, the two that I like the best are either Leupold or Sightron.

http://www.leupold.com/products/scopes.asp

http://www.sightron.com/index.php?actio ... 1044399020

I use scopes from both companies and they have never failed me.

Good shooting!

huntin1


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## autockr01 (Jul 14, 2005)

Thanks, Huntin! I think I'm going to do some shopping for a scope tomorrow. I looked at the Leupold site you linked for me, and I really like the look and quality of their scopes. I'm going to do a little more looking around, but I'll probably go with Leupold. Thanks again!


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

Most factory rifles will shoot 1-1 1/2" groups with factory ammo. With that in mind...

If you want to improve your shooting, dry fire, dry fire and dry fire some more.

When I plan on doing any hunting or competition, it is 10 dry fires to one practice round and 10 5 practice round to the real thing, either hunting or competition. For competition, it is either 80 or 100 rounds a day. So you can see a lot of dry firing goes on.

For the rifle, spend the money on getting the receiver and recoil lug bedded. My old Rem 788 .243 would shot 1-1/4" groups ALL day long no matter what I shot. I went and bedded the receiver and floated the barrel, it will shoot clover leafs now of about .3-.4" now. Not bad for a $150 rifle.

There are optics that are good, and there are optics you want to avoid. I personally don't care for Leupold. You pay more for the name than anything. Not that they are a bad scope, they are very good, but there is other stuff out there for a better value.

Burris has some good stuff and I put the Fullfield II on the wifes rifle. She loves it and it performs well for her. Myself I am in the process of saving for a Supersniper 10X42 for my M14. For $400 I don't think you could go wrong with that scope.

Any rifle you get, plan on shoot a bunch of different ammo. Whatever you get, will want a certain recipe. It might love a Remington cheap ammo, but absolutely hate a Federal premium ammo. Shooting each one will be the only way to figure it out. Don't stick with one weight bullet either.

Practice range estimation. It will play a bigger part in shooting than you think. Remember, telephone polls are about 100 yards apart. There are other things also to use for range E.

Don't just settle for a MOA given by a manufacturer. Look at what the build of the rifle is also. Pay attention to how the trigger feels. Try an $100 NEF compared to a Ruger No. 1 and you can see what I mean. What about action smoothness? Which one just seems to float when you work the action?

If you are new to rifle shooting, try to find something with a light recoil. The .30-06, while good, has a decent buck to it. I know my .308 and 7.62X54R have both given me a flinch I now have to work to get rid of. Look into a .223 or a .243 to work into it. Report will be a new experience as well. These guns have got a muzzle blast that will get your attention if you have never been around them much. Those with experience don't think much of it, but for a new shooter, it is there and something to get used to.

a milt-dot scope is quite a device to master. I won't even get into it here as it is a topic of its own. Here is a link though that will help you out with it though. 
http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/R ... ilDots.asp

It is a bit off fom your question of MOA, but it is all fators that will affect your results and drive for a small group and to get it under that 1 MOA group.

As a new shooter, even with a decent rig, I would be surprised if you shoot less than 1 1/2 inch and actually expect more like a 2-3" group even shooting from the bench.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Well, these guys pretty much summed it up. Not much for me to add........other than that I definatly agree with "snapping in". One thing to remember while doing it. Make sure you concentrate on each shot while you are snapping in. Pretend like each shot is an actual shot. Visualize it, even go so far as to plot your shot afterwards. It just gets you into the habit of "seeing" your shot. Of course you will never know the outcome of your shot but, none the less, you are cognitive of the fact. The task will get quite mundane, however, this "exercise" is extremely useful. Dont get bored with it....practice it!!!! The rifle will always, for the most part, be better and more consistant than the shooter. No matter what rifle/round you shoot. Unless your Plainsman!!!!!......take it easy man!!!! I'm just giving you a hard time.... :lol: .......take care.... :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Jiffy

Hey, I understand humor. However, let me tell you about a humbling experience that lends itself to trigger control. 
I was shooting ok, but when you don't get to do it for about two months you find that you have slipped. Why are bad habits so easy to learn, and good ones so hard to retain. I took a young (in this old guys eyes) fellow out from Devils Lake the other evening. I noticed he was taking five times as long as I to get a shot off. I don't often run into very good shooters, but this fellow was one of them. This fellow had never shot very long range, and he was trying my rifle and loads. We were not shooting on paper, but I think he was getting a better group than I. Reality smacked me pretty hard. So it's off to the range to get that trigger control again. Move that trigger slow, like you have a reptilian nervous system.

Jiffy :beer:


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