# Kids shotgun



## mnswd

I am starting to look for a shotgun for my girls (11 & 13). Any suggestions?


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## buckseye

http://nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=24257


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## mnswd

I failed to mention - one is a lefty


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## Ranger_Compact

Winchester 1300 Ranger Compact. I have the 12 gauge, stupid move on my behalf buying the 12 gauge to show up the boys, but I do just fine with it. I would suggest buying the 20 gauge model, that one is about two inches shorter in the barrell and also weighs less. I tried out just shouldering the Remington Express, but the guy working at Scheel's said that even though it is lighter, it may not be best because it could have more of a kick.










Here is a previous reply of mine:



Ranger_Compact said:


> At Scheel's, I had trouble deciding between the Winch 1300 12 or 20 gauges, I just didn't know. The 12 ga was about two and a half inches longer in the barrel, and weighed more too. With the 20 ga, I could hold all of the weight of the gun with my back hand on the gun; with the 12 ga, I had my back hand supporting weight _and_ my front hand supporting weight on the pump. If I were to be shooting at clay pigeons all day, yes, I would have chosen the 20 ga, but I'm not, so I got the 12 ga. Yeah, it's heavier, but I get more lead out with that. Scheel's actually has a thing where you can try out a gun for 30 days, if you don't like it, you can exchange it for another gun. I ended up like mine enough to keep it.


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## driggy

BPS youth model. Bottom eject, good for both left/right shooters. you should be able to find used for $200-$300. What I started my daughter with.


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## 1shotWonder

driggy is right, only way to go for pump especialy if one is a lefty.
Ranger-They stoped making that gun. there are still some out there but wont be anymore coming.


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## Bob Aronsohn

MS,
Which ever make and model you choose I would buy a 20 gauge. I would also only buy "light loads" for the two girls to shoot; such as skeet loads because they only have 7/8th's of an ounce of shot and don't kick the hell out of you.

Next, don't have them shoot at a stationary target as they will feel the recoil in doing so. Have them shoot at moving targets only! Put in either a skeet choke or improved cylender and they will have more immediate success and that is what it takes to hold there interest, plus make it more fun for them.

Bob A.


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## Burly1

I believe that almost any child can be started with a 12 gauge as long as the loads are appropriate. Both Winchester and Remington make low recoil/low noise loads for just this purpose. The recoil effect of these loads is less than many 2 3/4 20 gauge target loads. Fit is all important as well. I started mine with an H&R single tube gun with a youth stock and a quality recoil pad. Someone else mentioned that shooting at only moving targets is a good idea. Start with clays thrown like a frisbee, straight away from the shooter, have them cover the target with the end of the barrel and watch them turn to smoke. Thanks for starting your kids into a responsible lifetime sport. Burl


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## honkbuster3

I would go with the A 391 Beretta youth 20 gauge model. they are great fitting guns for kids plus you don't have to be like a wall behind the gun to make them cycle. IT IS A BAD IDEA TO START A KID ON A 12 GAUGE> I started on one and I shot it as my first gun........KICKED THE CRAP OUT OF ME!! I quit shooting from the time I was 10 to the time I was 11 because of that recoil. No matter the load if you start with a lot of kick and don't know how to hold it , it will hurt


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## Ranger_Compact

I started with an H&R Topper Model 16 gauge when I was ten years old. I love that gun because it's so short and light, doesn't have a pump though-which is why I bought the Winch 1300 RC 12 gauge this year. It's not that hard to get your hands on an H&R if you are interested in a single shot. Just depends on what you are looking for. Good Luck!


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## Springer

Franchi makes a really nice youth model also that is a semi-auto.
Scheel's in Fgo has a couple of the win. 1300.
These are nice because the forarm is back further than the others.
You could go with the rem 1100 in a youth 20. These have a synthetic stock and are light also would have less recoil being a semi-auto.

You can get 2 1/2" 12ga. shells at cabela's for shooting clay.
These have virtually no kick.


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## Bob Aronsohn

I like a 20 gauge for a young kid because the recoil is less. There was a gentleman on another post that thought a 12 gauge was fine with the low recoil loads, I don't think the recoil would be bad either under those conditions. However the added weight and overall size (frame wise) is just to unwieldy for kids that are 10 and 11 years old. This is just my opinion.

Bob A.


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## pennsyltucky

as long as its not one of those little youth model NEF's!!! a good friend has one in 20ga. it kicks harder than my 10. im not joking. he shot it at clay pidgeons once last summer....... black and blue after a box of shells. thats just rem promo cheapo loads.

maybe look into a sxs 20 or 12?????? they are wonderful guns and the kid wll never grow out of it. also because a break action gun is hard to bust. and because its easier to start with double triggers and go to a single barrel, than the other way around....... and they can be pretty cheap....


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## Original Goosebuster

I'd go witha youth BPS. THey only come in 20 GA's now but the plus is that since they have bottom ejection, they work great for Lefties. I am a lefty and i have a BPS 12 and love it.


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## Ranger_Compact

Springer said:


> Scheel's in Fgo has a couple of the win. 1300.
> These are nice because the forarm is back further than the others.


That is very true, I forgot about that. It's really nice though. That is one of the reasons I liked the Winchester 1300 Ranger Compact better than the Remington Express.


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## fishunt

410 ga wont hurt and would be good for young kid to start then get bigger gun later that is my suggest


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## bratlabs

I bought my oldest a Mossberg 500 youth 20 ga. when he graduated Hunters Safety and that thing kicks pretty good, it doesnt weigh anything. He didnt like it so he tried a friends Nova and loved it. Now both my boys have Novas, 1 with the mercury recoil reducer and 1 without. The recoil reducer helps more then I thought it would. The oldest(14) can handle the 3" slug recoil with the reducer when we sight in for deer hunting. The recoil doesnt bother my youngest(12), he shot 3 1/2s for geese all last fall. Hes also a lefty and it hasnt bothered him yet shooting a right handed pump.


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## Danro

The best gun is definitly the H+R single shot 20 gauge. Thats what my dad started me out on and he said I couldn't use a pump or a semi until I could learn to hit my target in 1 shot every time. This might not be the best gun if your hunting something like ducks that you might have multiple targets, but its the principal of the thing that really counts. Safe, ethical, hunting.


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## duckslayer

Or just buy an Remmington 870 youth 20 gauge, and only allow one shell until they are comfortable with that, then 2 shells, etc. Saves you from having to buy another gun once your single shot training is accomplished, and also the kids will not have to get used to a new gun.


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## Gohon

I noticed you said shotgun and not shotgun's so I assume your looking for one gun for both girls. Since one is left handed and one is right handed I see only two real choices. Either a NEF single shot or the Browning BPS. If price is a consideration the NEF is the logical choice. I've noticed most youngsters the age of your daughters tend to remove the gun from their shoulder to operate the pump anyway so the single shot might be the best choice. Either way I would install something like a Simms recoil pad on which ever one you got. I have several guns with the Simms and I highly recommend them. Personally I would go with the 20 ga. but the 12 ga would work fine if as mentioned light loads were used and though the 12 would be a little heavier it would help on in the recoil department.


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## magnum3.5

I started my daughter on a youth Benelli Nova. If I was to do it again I would have bought a Benelli M2 20 ga and put a youth stock on it. She shoots the nova fair but it kicks a little harder. I personally would stay away from the browning they are alittle to heavy for some kids. They cant control them like they need to. I would also try the 11-87 20 ga. buy an adult and put a youth stock on it. Kids dont have as much fun when they are getting beat up. Myself and 4 other fellas coach the 4-H shotgun program the majority of the guns these kids shoot the 870 youth express. You can see it at the end of the night they flinching and lifting there head off the stock and the reason is recoil. They are getting beat up. Myself I would spend the money on a auto. You will not find one in a 20ga. lefty though.


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## always_outdoors

> NEF single shot or the Browning BPS


Two of the worst guns you can put on youth. You are correct in these would accompany a left handed shooter, but as far as recoil, I have experienced nothing good from seeing young boys or girls try and shoot these two guns.

According to National 4-H Certified Instructors, the two best guns are the 20 gauge Remmington 11-87 or the 20 gauge Browning Gold. And as Magnum said, switch out the youth stock and forearms.

Federal is making some very light loads specifically designed for youth shooting programs. My understanding is they only come in 12 gauge format, but we did get to test these loads back in May and you couldn't feel a thing. Some of the smaller shooters won't have a problem shooting a 12 gauge load like that, but will have problems holding a 12 gauge up.

I personally would look at the 20 gauge 11-87. For the price and recoil, it is probably the best. It also seems to have a better reliability than the golds do (that is what gun smith's are telling me).

We currently have an 11 year old boy, left handed, shooting the 11-87. He tried a youth BPS and it killed his shoulder. He doesn't have problems shooting the right handed model.


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## Gohon

> Two of the worst guns you can put on youth


I'm sure the one daughter is really going to enjoy having shells fly across in front of her face because someone didn't have the sense to put a good recoil pad on the NEF or BPS. The statement above makes no sense at all especially if using the light loads you just talked about. Equip these two guns with the right stock and a quality recoil pad and neither one will have a problem, especially with the BPS. At least both girls would be accommodated instead of just one with the other having to struggle with something that isn't made to work for her. The fathers dilemma isn't about recoil which is easy to take care of, nor is it about a selection between a singe shot, auto, or pump action but two different girls with different physical characteristics that he needs to address. I'd be interested though just what your personal experience with the NEF or the BPS is that results in your conclusion that these two guns are the worst possible choice. I assume you must have owned both in the past to reach that. I know I have.........


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## mnswd

Found an old Montgomery Wards single shot hammerless 20ga. It the right size and the right price ($70). We start gun safety tonight. If it takes it takes - if not I only have $70 into this adventure.


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## always_outdoors

Ah, my good friend Gohon. Actually I do own both guns. I am a Browning man, so I actually have quite a few in the safe. Shoot my citori for upland, A-500 for fun, and have two different kinds of BPS's, one for turkeys (24" NWTF mossy oak) and one for geese (28" shadowgrass model). I am also LEFT HANDED. Are you?

Give me some background on your youth shotgun instruction Gohon.

Here is mine.
1. National certification in the Hunting Discipline and Shooting Coordinator (4-H Youth Shooting Program)
2. NRA certification 
3. Leader certified in shotgun, archery, muzzleloader, and rifle. I have been a lead shotgun instructor for almost 8 years now.
4. Worked in hunter education out of the Bismarck Office.
5. Was asked to submit application to serve as a National 4-H Shooting Sport Coordinator Instructor.

I also coordinated one of ND's largest 4-H shooting sports programs. Over 300 kids through our youth shooting program in one year alone. I also coordinated both beginner and advanced shooting summer camps.

With the 11-87 or Gold many of the kids don't see the shell flying past their face. I don't when I shoot my A-500. We want the best suited guns on our kids until they are older. A single shot or BPS is what we have experience high recoil (there are others out there too besides these two). The NEF is way too light and the recoil sends most kids home or crying and we dont' see them again. In fact, if a kids shows up with one, we ask them to put it away and use a gun provided by the club. The BPS not only has a stronger recoil than a semi-auto, but it is also heavy. For a kid just learning proper positioning of the gun along with stance, they can't hold the gun up for long periods of time.

You can pick this apart all you want or you can try and spin like you do down in the politics sections all the time, but the reality is, the *National 4-H Shooting Sports Association* and its Nationally trained instructors (by the way use NRA curriculum) recommend the two following guns for kids....Remmington 11-87 or the Browning Gold 20 gauge.

Sometimes recoil pads can help, but most if not all of our kids don't need one because we have put the proper gun in their hands. We have also noticed that recoil pads extend the stock and for some it is too much of a stretch even with small of a pad.

If you have research to prove otherwise, please let me know my good friend Gohon.


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## Jiffy

Heh Heh!!!


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## Gohon

And you're still dancing outside the parameters of the OP's problem. Twice you used the term "most kids don't". Well some do so why on earth would anyone with a function brain stem want subject a kid to something that may handicap them when there are alternatives. Why not stay inside the question the OP has instead of giving him advice he didn't seek. I'll assume the OP is already aware of recoil and will address that area when he makes his selection. As for a recoil pad extending the stock....... gee golly, have you ever heard of shortening the stock. Yes the NEF is light and does or can produce more felt recoil than most guns but even the cheap slip on pads will tame them. Felt is the operative word here and you need to understand that first and it appears with your other post about shotgun gun recoil you don't. If kids went home crying it is because some yoyo instructor didn't use common sense and most likely doesn't know what they are doing, though I do understand when you are dealing with a large number of kids then guns are going to be limited. But that is not the case here is it....... we're talking about two young girls that will be using the guns extensively. Use some common sense. Spin.......... I don't need to spin with you Live2hunt because I know from past experience what you will do. Besides it would be a uneven contest and I won't take advantage of you. If you really knew what you were talking about and you were so concerned about recoil then you would know the model 1100 is a softer shooting shotgun than the 11-87. I made a recommendation to the OP's question, you didn't but instead went off on something he apparently already knew about and wasn't concerned with at the present time. You were very helpful............. I have no intention of listening to another one of your crying rants such as you have done in other threads so if you have something else to say then get it out of your system and lets get this back on track to the Op's real problem, which he may no longer have as he has now bought a gun for the girls.

mnswd, one thing about your purchase.......... it doesn't have to be a thing of beauty and for the price you paid you can afford to saw part of the stock off as need, if needed and just install a cheap WalMart slip on pad. Try it yourself before and after and I think you will see a noticeable difference. If it works, you like it and want to keep the gun then square the butt and install a quality recoil pad and you're all set.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post correction made by OP


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## Jiffy

Invector????? :huh:


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## always_outdoors

Who the heck is Invector? I have never posted about recoil, caliber, trajectory?

Who are you talking to Gohon?

This is not my humble opinion. The information I posted came from the National 4-H Shooting Sports Association. If these two girls wanted to shoot and came to any one of the 50 states whether through an NRA youth program or through the 4-H shooting sports program and their father asked the question he asked above. The response from everyone will be.

"The best gun to put youth on is the Remmington 11-87 or the Browning Gold 20 gauge".

That is the facts. It isn't my humble opinion. Since I dont' have the girls right here in Devils Lake to help them out, my best information is to look at these two guns. And as you can see, the 11-87 was recommended by Magnum 3.5 as well. Oh and he happens to be a 4-H youth shotgun instructor. hmmm

The one thing you are missing is youth development and promoting youth into the outdoors. If it isn't fun, they won't do it. If you want to put a young girl on a single shot shotgun with a cut stock and recoil pad, go ahead, as a lead instructor there is no way I would do that. NO WAY.

That is the way my father started me out. I fought through the pain because I had a drive to hunt. When my younger brother came to the age to use the gun, he dropped it, cried and has never since held a shotgun. We are now 32 and 29 and he still doesn't shoot a shotgun. I have seen it happen and I have witnessed it. There are too many horor stories out there with or without recoil pads.

The orignial poster of this post asked for suggestions. You gave yours and I gave mine. I can safely say that almost every youth shotgun instructor will pick the 11-87 or the gold over your two. Every time even with your cut stocks and recoil pads. The fact is, they are better for youth who do extensive amounts of shooting. Whether left handed or not.

When our kids get older, we look to other guns that will better suit them. The young lefty we have the in program will most likely move from the 11-87 to a left handed Benelli or an over-under as his father sees fit, but right now that is the best gun for him.

You are out of your league on this one. I am still waiting for your credentials on all the youth shotgun instruction background you have.

mnswd: I am not sure where you are located, but if the gun you purchased doesn't fit the girls, please let me know and I will try and hook up with you or have colleauges of mine (other youth instructors) that may be in your area help you out so you can get the right gun for your girls.

live2hunt.....not to be confused with Invector


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## Gohon

I don't know why but I had Invector on my mind concerning another question and somehow let the two run together. My mistake.

Okay lets look at the facts. The OP didn't ask about recoil. The OP didn't ask what was the best type of gun. He didn't ask what gauge it should be. He ask what he could use that would accommodate two girls, one being left handed and one being right handed. You answered everything except what he was asking about. Reminds me of the guy that will say something like I just bought a 38 special and was wondering what loads he should use for self defense. People like yourself will jump in and tell them they should go get a 45 ACP, 40 S&W, or 357 magnum. Never mind he didn't ask that question. That's what you did. I could go through a long winded story about what, when, and where I have worked with youths and shotguns but it would not be relevant to the question now would it. And I certainly don't need to qualify myself to you. I never said the two guns I suggested were the best out there but they were the most logical choice for the OP's situation. You seem to be so concerned about recoil when you know felt recoil is subjective and each and every shooter will perceive it differently. What hurt you and your brother may have seemed tame to others. Sorry to hear you suffered so much because of lack of knowledge on how to reduce felt recoil. I also started with a single shot 12 gauge but didn't suffer any. The gun was fitted and set up for me to shoot. My granddaughter who is 14 is shooting that gun these days. As I said it is a moot point now as the OP has made his purchase. I guess you could now tell the OP he will regret not taking your advice but instead took the recommendation of several people in this thread on the single shot but then that would me moot also........ In the end the bottom line is the only thing you could come up with was the NEF has to much felt recoil and with that you have decided the NEF or Browning BPS is, in your words the worst possible choices. BTW, are you aware the NRA has teamed up with Beretta corp to use the NRA logo on youth shotguns........... wonder why they didn't choose Remington?


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## always_outdoors

gohon: why do you keep trying to spin it?

Here is what the original poster presented in his question



> I am starting to look for a shotgun for my girls (11 & 13). Any suggestions?





> I failed to mention - one is a lefty


Any suggestions?? did you read that? ANY SUGGESTIONS

You presented two guns. Of which I completely disagree with. And disagree based on facts and experience.

I also included this line.



> According to National 4-H Certified Instructors, the two best guns are the 20 gauge Remmington 11-87 or the 20 gauge Browning Gold. And as Magnum said, switch out the youth stock and forearms.


As an experienced instructor, these ARE the best guns.

My father did what he thought was best back then. He also has seen me work with youth and often wonders what would have happened with my brother had he shot a correct gun. Sorry, but back then we didn't have the 4-H shooting sports program or other youth type shooting programs to lean on.

IMHO buying a gun for a youth is probably one of the most serious things one can do. Knowing what are the best guns for youth in terms of shooting for hunting or for competition is the utmost importance. I work with these kids day in and day out.

I have asked and you can't provide it. Please provide me research that states that a single shot or a BPS is better for youth than the two I have presented.

Quit spinning and show the research. NRA instructors and curriculum along with the National 4-H Shooting Sports Association says these are the two BEST guns.

I did notice you mentioned the 1100 up above. I contacted a colleague of mine over lunch. He is at Clemson. He serves on the board for National 4-H Shooting Sport Association. He did say that in many circumstances, the 1100 is a good gun to start youth on. He says more and more instructors push the Gold and 11-87, but they are using more 1100's than they did last year.

He said they have asked all 4-H clubs with NEF guns to remove them and turn them into the state office. His understanding was that Texas asked their program instructors to do the same thing a couple of years ago. Texas by the way has over 1 million youth involved in their shooting programs. North Dakota removed their single shot NEF's from their program as well. I believe they went to 870 youth models. Missouri Coordinator hasn't contacted me yet.

Go back to the politics forum gohon.


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## always_outdoors

> BTW, are you aware the NRA has teamed up with Beretta corp to use the NRA logo on youth shotguns........... wonder why they didn't choose Remington?


Not sure. Could be political. Maybe Beretta gave some big money to them? Maybe they were the cheapest bid?

Why did ND choose to use Chevy Malibu's for their state vehicles? Why did Pheasants Forever team up with Browning? Why did NWTF put their logo on Browning?

Berreta's shoot nice. Good guns. I shot a 391 and enjoyed it, but I love my Brownings. I love shooting my BPS, but I wouldn't put my kid on it. There are too many better guns out there for kids starting out.


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## Gohon

> I have asked and you can't provide it. Please provide me research that states that a single shot or a BPS is better for youth than the two I have presented


.

Live2hunt are you really that dense? Why should I try to provide information for something I never claimed. I simply told the OP I thought the two guns I suggested were the obvious choice for his situation. You talk about spin.............. You answered the OP's post only after my post and only after the OP had clarified his situation and you didn't simply post your recommendation, no you had to jump in and start out with the comment that the NEF and the BPS were the absolute worse choices. Something you yourself can not back up and never will be able to. I don't give a damn what your 4H club recommends any more than you don't give a damn what the NRA recommends which is probable political anyway according to you......... but certainly not in your case. Boy you talk about someone trying to spin their butt out of a hole. There is no such thing as the absolute worse gun because each case is just a little different and all problems are easy to address. Is that sinking in any at all? I know you're still steaming from the post of yours a few months back where I called you out about some of your double talk and I know you thought you saw a chance to stir the pot and maybe get even. I really don't care....... it's over.......... the OP has made his choice.

If it will make you feel any better I'm sure my granddaughter will be extremely happy to discover that according to you, she is suppose to be crying and running away from the gun that she has been shooting all this time and enjoying. Just drop it..... the OP has bought a gun......the thread is no longer relevant.


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## Jiffy

Classic Gohon....... :eyeroll:


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## Gohon

Christ Jiffy, you're like some old fat *** woman sitting on the couch watching television all day. Haven't you ever had a original thought of your own before, or at least attempted to have a self thought out input to a thread. This in you third 2 or 3 word post with comic pictures in this one. I guess one can only expect riding coattails with two words and a icon is going to always be your input limit.


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## Jiffy

heh heh..... Gohon you amuse me. Enough said before this one gets locked. Chris, I wont add anymore "fuel to the fire".....he is rather entertaining though.


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## Gohon

> I wont add anymore "fuel to the fire"..


Well at least you admit to your single purpose for posting...... Funny how I've see you duck out of a thread with that "I don't want the thread locked" line several times in the past. If you're really that worried there is a easier way to avoid it&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.

One thing is for certain though, this thread did get well off the beaten path and it shouldn't have. I'm through with it.......


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## KILLEDBAMBI

DONT GET ANYTHING BUT A REMINGTON 870.THEY R BY FAR THE BEST.THE YOUTH MODEL WOULD BE PERFECT.IF THERE GUNNA BE TALL WHEN THEY GET OLDER GET THE REGULAR ADULT SIZE.DEFINTELY GO WITH THE 20.THEY WILL KILL ANYTHING.


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## magnum3.5

The browning gold from what I have witnessed is not a reliable shotgun.

Gonan I am having a tough time following what you mean here. I was just trying to offer a prespective from what I see at the range and let me tell you that is my second home. I shoot between 5000 and 6000 rounds a summer and I see alot of shotguns come and go the first ones off the line is the hunter gold and second is the 1100. The 1100 is a pleasure to shoot but it don't hold up. The 11-87 is better and have improved a great amount since they were introduced as they still have there troubles from time to time. The next gun is which I own myself thats the Benelli sbe I have over 30,000 rounds through this gun and is still kicking. (matter of fact I took it to the gunsmith this week for it's tune up and all I need was a recoil spring) The top of the heap for no trouble Hands down the Beretta 390 and the 391 the preform well on the range I have yet to see one down yet on the range I have seen one down on a very cold november morning in the field.

We all have are own ideas lets not bring something like a kids shotgun make a life long fight out of it. Buying guns is supposed to be fun. Fight nice


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## Gohon

magnum3.5, I assume you're referring to my statement that the 1100 was a softer shooter than the 11-87. I wasn't making a recommendation of either gun but since the poster was so wrapped up in recoil I thought I would point that out. Yes the 11-87 is a better advanced design for reliability, has a stronger action and a better gas piston system than the 1100. Why the 1100 shoots softer I don't know unless it is that the 1100 has two bleed off ports to the single port of the 11-87. Then again I may be in left field with that thought. Without question a single shot will project more perceived recoil due to their light weight but these issues can be easily addressed. Ditto for the youth 870 and again I suspect it is a weight issue. As I know you are well aware that all shotguns produce the same amount of recoil as long as all parameters are equal. It is the perceived recoil that matters and two shooters shooting the same gun with the same load will usually perceive that recoil in a different light from each other.

I've never shot a shotgun so much it has worn out on me. Actually I've never had a shotgun break on me, knock on wood. The other guns you mentioned I've never picked up let alone shot. But I have shot a BPS extensively and I don't know where this worst choice is coming from for the BPS. My entire posts were for a person wanting one gun for two girls with one being a lefty and the other being a righty and he needed to accommodate both. Once he was over that hurdle he could then address recoil by changes to the gun and proper load selection. I said I was through with the thread but I thought I should clear up any misunderstanding I may have conveyed to you.


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## always_outdoors

Double talk???

This coming from the guy who says he only buys American. Then last week tells everyone his wife drives a Toyota Camry was it? And you shoot the BPS extensively? Made in Japan.

You can tweak and spin all you want.

gohon wrote:



> I guess you could now tell the OP he will regret not taking your advice but instead took the recommendation


To the Moderaters. This was his words. Notice the tactic of trying to make me out to be malicious. I guess maybe he learned that from his friend MT.

Gohon: Do we know need to go through the biological and physical differences between an 11 year old female and a 14 year old female?? Is this sinking in??? YOU don't put an 11 year old on single shot shotgun. Maybe that is why many of the states with more background on youth shooting have pulled them away from the clubs. A 14 year old girl could be 5'10" tall and over 125 lbs. A 14 year old could very easily shoot a single shot if conditioned to it both mentally and physically. So it doesn't surprised me that your 14 year old granddaughter shoots a single shot shotgun. Glad to hear she is shooting.

Now for a clarification. You can use any gun you want to bring youth up shooting. 12 gauge, 20 gauge, 16 gauge, and 28 gauge. Beretta, Browning, etc... BUT and here is the key gohon. Hope you catch it this time.....BUT according to the thousands of instructors out there they will probably SUGGEST (suggest being the key word because that was what the OP wanted) either the 11-87, gold, or if under the South Carolina program the 1100.

You and I have a history of not seeing eye to eye. But the recommendations you gave rank right in there with some of the top guns that you shouldn't put youth on. You can use them, but they aren't recommended by specialists who work with youth shooting programs.

But see you wont' let this end because you have to be right. Problem is you gave poor suggestions. I am glad it was you who posted those suggestions. You made my day and from the PM's I have received...a few others as well.


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## magnum3.5

Gonan The only problem I have with the BPS is that is too heavy and it has alot of recoil plain and simple. You can't take a normal 11 year old kid, give them this weapon and let the try and man handle the thing I am willing to bet the youth model BPS weighs close to a 8lbs. It is alot heavier than the others I mentioned. 
Yes, a good recoil pad goes along way I will agree. I was raised on one of those single bangers and I had a azz flinch, I would rather teach a kid with a auto no questions asked. magnum


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## Gohon

magnum, without question a auto loader by design will produce less felt recoil than a single shot or pump action but they are different parameters involved aren't there.

But, what you are saying makes no sense. Two guns with the same parameters which are, same weight, both same action, and same shot load will produce the exact same mechanical recoil or as properly called free recoil energy . That's simple physics. If the BPS were heavier at 8 pounds than say a 870 youth at 6.5 pounds then the BPS will produce less recoil, not more. To do other wise is to defy physics. BTW, just as information the Browning BPS 20 gauge comes in at 6 lb. 11 oz. The Remington Premier 11-87 20 gauge comes in at 6 lb. and 12 oz. Weight is not a issue with these two guns but action design is. And stock type, stock length, recoil pad design, drop at the heel&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; and most importantly the shooter themselves. There are simply to many variables involved in recoil of any gun to try and pin the cause on one thing when it comes to felt recoil.

You and I have no disagreement on which type of guns produce less felt recoil. The only disagreement I had with anyone was how to work within the criteria set fourth by the OP.


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## Dustymick64

My twin brother and I started out on an H&R or NEF 20ga single shot with a full choke. Around the farm it was a wonderfull firearm. I was amazed at how far away I could peg a crow or other varmit around the place. To this day it rates as my favorite gun. It is a good safe gun to learn on.


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## thehunterfisherman448

im 13 and when my dad first put a gun into my hands it was the rossi 20gauge it didnt kick that bad for me. Then one day i asked to shoot his rem 870 12ga and it kicked harder but not like knocking me dwn or nething. a few months ago i spent my entire piggy bank on a benelli m2 field 12ga and it hardly kicks, even less than the 20 single shot. if i was you i would spend the money and buy a benelli, trust me u wont regret it. Your kid will be extremely happy and it will last him/her a lifetime.


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