# Need a new scope......



## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Hey guys, i need some recommendations.......

.......right now i have a .243 weatherby with a scope that is really only good for 100 yards. I'm looking for a scope that will work up to 1,000 yards................i know this is total overkill for this type of rifle, but i want to be able to use the scope if i get a new, more powerful rifle.

Any suggestions.......?


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

Look at a Burris with the Ballistic Plex, this scope will easily take you out to 600 yards, after zeroing at 100 yards. in my opinion a 1000 yard scope on ANY rifle is overkill. Unless you are a professional sniper, you really have no business shooting at a living breathing animal at ranges past 600 yards, and personally I think that that is pushing it. We owe it to the animal to make a clean and quick kill.

If you don't mind me asking, what kind of scope do you have on the rifle now?


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

The 1,000 yard capability would be for target shooting .

Sorry, i have no clue as to what it is......all i know is that the rifle came with it.............and the rifle isn't accessible right now.


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I think when you are talking about true 1,000yd shooting you are talking about tapered scope bases, or at the very least shimmed. The 1,000yd shooting is kind of a all or nothing type of target shooting. The shimmed or angled bases will make it not possible for any real meaningfun "normal" range shooting. like form 0-350-400yds. Most scopes do not have the range of movement to do both. Most higher end scopes in the 6-24 power range will take care of most of your long range shooting. In high temps, more than 12to 14X will not be useable do to the heat waves. Hope this helps you some.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

You will want a scope with target turrets and good glass, and with the max power of at least 14X, 24X would be better. Do not buy a cheap scope, it will not do the job for you and you will not be happy.

Look at offerings from Nikon, Sightron, Leupold and Burris too I guess. Burris has a good scope, I just have had crappy customer service from them so it's hard for me to recommend them. :evil:

huntin1


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

How much are you willing to spend?? You get what you pay for....especially with optics: http://www.nightforceoptics.com/?catid=1&viewitem=134

If your talking 1000+ I am assuming you are serious.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.opticsplanet.com/catalog/pen ... opes.shtml

I got the pentax lightseeker 6X to 24X and love it.
The place I bought it told me it was made by Burris, and pentax put their name on it. So far I've only shot it out to 600 yards with a 300 SARUM, with 17 out of 20 head shots at 600 yards aint bad. Good luck with whatever you choose.

PS I perfer the MIL DOT.


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

huntin1 said:


> You will want a scope with target turrets and good glass, and with the max power of at least 14X, 24X would be better. Do not buy a cheap scope, it will not do the job for you and you will not be happy.


Sorry, i'm a complete noob when it comes to scopes.........target turrets? Good glass? How do i know if i'm getting a good glass? MIL dot?

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions, i'll check them out 

Oh, and my buget would be $800 tops.


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## pennsyltucky (Oct 30, 2005)

www.longrangehunting.com


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Target turrets look like this:










As you can see they are taller than normal, what you can't see is that they are indexed so that you can dial in the amount of holdover you need at any given range.

Here are scopes in the range you listed, they all have 30mm main tubes so keep that in mind when ordering rings. Just click on the name.

Leupold

Burris

Sightron

Stick with the major brands in the price range you mentioned and you will get good glass, you can go cheaper, but I recommend spending as much as you can afford on a scope, you will not regret it. If you decide that you don't want to spend the $800 let me know, I'll give you recommendations for whatever price range you can afford.

Of course, any recommendations I make are strictly my opinion.  

huntin1


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Whelen35 has it right. Concentrate on a quality scope for your 243 at the moment and worry about a scope for that 1,000 yard rifle if and when you get it. Other wise it is kind of like putting duel 800 cfm carbs on a inline six so that when you get that 427 Hemi at a later date you can switch them over. Just doesn't work like that.


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

OK, i suspected that might be the case, but i was hoping it wasn't .

So when i get this scope, will it be specifically for my .243? Like will the dots in the MIL dot type scope be placed according to the bullet drop of my type of rifle?


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## 94silverado (Oct 16, 2005)

Gohon, There's nothing wrong with running duel 800 CFM's on a inline six lol I can't talk i have so many hi per. parts in my garage for that dream car of mine some day.

As for the scope i would agree with the above get a good scope for the .243 that way when you get that new rifle you can still use this one for hunting because it will still have that scope on it. But thats only my opinion.


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## pennsyltucky (Oct 30, 2005)

muzzleflash said:


> will the dots in the MIL dot type scope be placed according to the bullet drop of my type of rifle?


no, milradian is for ranging, not for ballistics. u have to know how ur gun shoots at distance, then using the mil dots, u figure out how far a known sized target is, then adjust the windage and elevation acordingly, usually with the turrets on top and side.
click the link.

http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/ ... e=0#114150

.


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Cool, thanks........

.......i'm still slightly confused; is there anything big stopping me from putting this scope on a rifle other than my .243? Like are the turrets made for the .243 bullet drop?

Also, when i look at something like 8-32 x 40 mm, is the 8-32 the power of the scope?


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Down and dirty and in a nutshell: Bullet drop and deflection is measured in MOA (Minute of Angle). MOA will vary by distance but not by caliber. One MOA is one MOA is one MOA....roughly 1" @ 100yrds, 2" @ 200yards, ect. The number or MOA needed to compensate for bullet drop and windage WILL however vary by caliber and even vary in bullet type of the SAME caliber. In direct proportion to range. Are you with me???

Having stated that I will also tell you this. There are 3.6 MOA (roughly) between MILS on the Mil-dot reticle. Thus the 1st dot is at 3.6, the 2nd dot is at 7.2, the 3rd dot is at 10.8....ect. Which just happens to coincide with the 300, 400, 500,...ect drop of a 168 gr. .308 BTHP bullet moving at aprox. 2600 fps at the muzzle. With a 200 yrd zero of course. Coincidence? Nope. Do an internet search on what bullet and who the mil-dot reticle was designed for. Here in you will find your answer. I hope I have helped and not hindered.

To answer your question: No, there are no "special" turrets made for a .243. Its all about MOA and knowing your round. "Target turrets" are just elevated turrets with marked MOA increments. Whether they are 1/2, 1/4, or 1/8 they are just simply eaiser to use and keep track of the dope on your weapon.

As far as range estimation with a mil-dot reticle......I'm with huntin1.....I just bought one because they look cool.... :wink: Opps I mean kool :lol:

Seriously, thats a whole different topic!!! :beer: Its really not that complicated once you get into it.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

GGEESSSHHH!!! I need to proof read before I hit submit. Please excuse the grammar/spelling.. :-?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Can't add much to what Jiffy and others have said. Except to further confuse the situation. There are some scopes out there with bullet drop compensating turrets, they are specific to caliber and bullet type. I would recommend staying away from them and going with the normal target turrets. That way they can be used with any bullet, any caliber as long as you know the drop at any given distance. This can be calculated with a ballistics program to get you close and then range time will get you right on.

If you get one of the scopes I mentioned (there are others as well) you can remove the scope from your 243 when you upgrade to a different caliber and use the scope on that rifle. And trust me, once you start with this infernal long range stuff, you will be hooked for life and likely spend truck loads of money on your new "habit".

:beer:

huntin1


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

I'll be damned!!! I just did a search on bullet drop compensating turrets and you are right. I did not realize they custom made them. I thought they just "genericly" made "magnum" and "standard" compensating reticles. Not actual turrets. Interesting...thats why I love reading this site. How long have they been making them.....please dont say quite a while.  How accurate are they?? I would imagine they would be quite accurate. Why wouldnt they???


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Aahhh sorry man, yep they been making them for quite awhile. Not to worry, one time I made a mistake too. At least I think I did.   8) 8)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

edited to add, oops sorry, yes they are accurate as long as you have the right turret for the right bullet. I have an old Bushnell that came with either 4 or 6 different turrets, kinda hard to keep track of. IMO it is much easier to know what the come-ups are for each bullet or caliber and then dial it in instead of switching out the turret if you change bullets.

:beer:

huntin1


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

:lol: Hey, if you cant admit your wrong or you didnt know something it does no good to pretend you did. :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'll have to respectfully disagree with some of you guys. I would get the scope I want now, or you will cry when you have to pay a second time to upgrade.
Most scopes will have a minimum of 40 inches of elevation travel. My 308 takes 37.5 inches to make 1000 yards. You can do close range, and long range with most of them. A better scope will give you 60 ionches some 80, and really good 30mm tubes will give you over 100 inches.
You say you already have a scope, good. Now take it to the range and when your sighted in at 100 yards see how many clicks it takes you to go all the way down. Unless you have taken you rifle to a gunsmith and had the action and barrel faced it will not be equal up and down adjustments. Then check to see how much up adjustment you have. With a 243 you will need less than my 308, but you will still need at least 32 inches. If you don't shim the scope, bet Burris Signature rings as hunt1 suggested, or get a 20 degree angle base. If you had more than 20 inches of down adjustment you will still be able to zero at 100 yards with a 20 degree angle base. For example if you had 26 inches of down adjustment on a cheap 40 minute of angle adjustment scope you would now have six inches of down, and 34 inches of up adjustment. 
If I am walking and hunting I simply turn my 308 up two inches. I am then on for about 220 yards, and only drop about eight inches at 300. This way your within point blank specs for deer within about 275 yards.

Another thing you can do, and I do with a 223, is wrap white tape around your target turret. Go to the range and sight in for 100 yards. Mark that 0, then turn your turret until you strike your target at 200 yards and mark that 2. Do this all the way to 500 yards then put hash marks for 25, 50, and 75 between each 100 yard marking. This way if you know the range simply dial it. I wouldn't even shoot a prairie dog beyond 500 yards with a 223, because it lacks the energy. Your 243 should reach 600 yards this way.


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## 94silverado (Oct 16, 2005)

muzzleflash said:


> Also, when i look at something like 8-32 x 40 mm, is the 8-32 the power of the scope?


8-32x that is the power that means you can go from 8 times the zoom to 32 times. The 40mm Stands fo the size of the lens.


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Plainsman said:


> I'll have to respectfully disagree with some of you guys. I would get the scope I want now, or you will cry when you have to pay a second time to upgrade.
> Most scopes will have a minimum of 40 inches of elevation travel. My 308 takes 37.5 inches to make 1000 yards. You can do close range, and long range with most of them. A better scope will give you 60 ionches some 80, and really good 30mm tubes will give you over 100 inches.
> You say you already have a scope, good. Now take it to the range and when your sighted in at 100 yards see how many clicks it takes you to go all the way down. Unless you have taken you rifle to a gunsmith and had the action and barrel faced it will not be equal up and down adjustments. Then check to see how much up adjustment you have. With a 243 you will need less than my 308, but you will still need at least 32 inches. If you don't shim the scope, bet Burris Signature rings as hunt1 suggested, or get a 20 degree angle base. If you had more than 20 inches of down adjustment you will still be able to zero at 100 yards with a 20 degree angle base. For example if you had 26 inches of down adjustment on a cheap 40 minute of angle adjustment scope you would now have six inches of down, and 34 inches of up adjustment.
> If I am walking and hunting I simply turn my 308 up two inches. I am then on for about 220 yards, and only drop about eight inches at 300. This way your within point blank specs for deer within about 275 yards.
> ...


.........

I'm confused............again...........

Shim = ?

20 degree angle base = ?

I think i get your basic concept, but what are you suggesting i do once i get my scope?

If you think i should get the scope i want now, which one would you suggest?

Thanks for bearing with me guys, i guess i'm more than a noob than i though  :wink:


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I say get the scope now as the cost of the gun and scope can be a tad much. So getting it now will help the cost of the gun scope combo later. Granted you will need to buy a scope for your 243 later but that can be put off as you will have a new gun to play with. The mark 4, night force and many other companies make great scopes. What I suggest you do is do a search on long range shooting, sniping, F-class, 1,000 yd bench rest, and silhouette shooting.

The 20 degree angle base

What that does is angles the eye peice of the scope up so the front of the scope points more toward the muzzle of the gun. What this dose is allows you to sight in your gun for a much greater distance with the scope adjustments being centered in the scope.

With out that type of base getting your gun sighted in at 600 yds can be done but your scope may not have enough adjustment left to get your to 700yds. With the angled type of base you could sight your gun in at 600 and have enough adjustment left to get you to 1000 yds.

150,000 Americans die from Chuck Norris related accidents every year.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Let's see...... it is suggested he buy a scope now that will be much more powerful than what he needs for the .243. A scope that will most likely make the .243 less fun to shoot, especially at short ranges. Then when he gets the new rifle he can move that scope to the new rifle but........ he now has to buy a scope for the .243, that gun that wasn't much fun because he didn't get the proper scope for it in the first place. What am I missing here?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Gohon,

I'm sorry, but what am I missing? How does a quality piece of optical equipment make any rifle less fun to shoot? I would agree that a piece of junk simmons or trashco would make it less fun to shoot. But quality glass?

I have a 4x16 on my 22LR, which is much more powerful than needed, it doesn't make that less fun to shoot.

huntin1


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I notice some misconceptions on here. Like someone said sight your rifle in at 600 yards. No one does that. Maybe they do with a 50 cal, but I have no experience with that. I doubt it. A dedicated long range rifle doesn't mean the rifle isn't very capable at 50 yards. No one buys a rifle for 1000 yards that they can't also use at 50, or 100 yards.
I have to go along with hunt1 on this idea about the 243 would be less fun to shoot. The better and clearer the scope the more fun any rifle is to shoot in my opinion. 
Also, someone stated that he would have to buy a new scope for his 243. What happened to the scope that is on it now? Buy the good scope, save the old one, and when you get the new rifle swap the scope out and put the old one back on the 243. 
I have a 300 Win mag set up for 1200 yards, and I can dial it out to 1400 yards if I want. I have a 300 Short Mag set up for 800 yards, but I can get 1200 yards out of the scope. I have a 270 Winchester set up for 800 yards, and I can get 1200 yards out of the scope. I have a 308 set up for 1000 yards, and with the 30 mm tube I can get 1400 yards out of the scope. They are all capable of less than ½ inch at 100 yards, and no less fun to shoot. 
I have the same 4X16 set up on my 10/22 as hunt1 does. I'll take it over any 3X9 for squirrel at 75 yards. It has a heavy carbon competition barrel and will do under ½ inch at 50 yards. I like 16 power on this rifle because I shoot little things with it. On squirrel if I can't see their whiskers they are to far. 
Don't get me wrong, I like low power also. I have a great field of view on my muzzle loader. Yes, scopes are legal in North Dakota, but they have to be one power. No magnification is allowed. The only thing I don't like is I would swear things look smaller through it. Open both eyes and they still look smaller through the one power Thompson Center scope.


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Gohon said:


> What am I missing here?


It seem quite a lot 

Sorry, i'm still kinda unclear as to what you suggested to dial the scope in.....

.......are you saying buy the 20 degree angle bases, then use them to sight my scope in at 100 yards, then use the turrets for ajustments on bullet drop?


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

muzzleflash, dont take this the wrong way but, dont even worry about a scope worthy of 1000 yards. I dont think your ready yet. Buy a good mid range scope (3x9 Nikon Monarch with a DUPLEX RETICLE for example) and dont worry about shooting past 300 to 350. It REALLY doesnt sound like your ready....IMO Its ok to try and gain knowledge on here but you have alot to learn before you even attempt such shots....even on paper. Learn the basics first. :beer:


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

But when i am ready, i will have to spend a bunch more money to get a new scope........to me, it makes much more sense to get the good scope now, and work my way up..........that's what i was planning on doing anyway.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm not talking about scope quality. It goes without saying that the better the quality the more fun it is. I'm talking about the suggestions he over power a .243 just so he can use it (scope) on equipment (rifle) designed and set up for long range shooting that he doesn't even have yet and maybe never. Why would you want a scope on a rifle that is generally used out to 300-400 yards max for hunting and plinking and often shorter distances just for the sake of maybe it can be used in the future on a rifle that will get to 1000 yards. If all he is ever going to do is punch paper with the .243 then okay a 6-24 would be okay for now but if he intends to hunt with it at all, then I don't think so. Even Jiffy should be able to understand that, then again probable not. He has already said the present scope is only good out to 100 yards so that sounds like a pretty crappy scope which I wouldn't consider putting back on the .243 at a later time. Just saying to me it makes more sense to get a quality scope that is better suited for the .243 now and worry about another scope if and when a different rifle is bought.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Easy you old squidly......  :wink:


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Gohon said:


> I'm not talking about scope quality. It goes without saying that the better the quality the more fun it is. I'm talking about the suggestions he over power a .243 just so he can use it (scope) on equipment (rifle) designed and set up for long range shooting that he doesn't even have yet and maybe never. Why would you want a scope on a rifle that is generally used out to 300-400 yards max for hunting and plinking and often shorter distances just for the sake of maybe it can be used in the future on a rifle that will get to 1000 yards. If all he is ever going to do is punch paper with the .243 then okay a 6-24 would be okay for now but if he intends to hunt with it at all, then I don't think so. Even Jiffy should be able to understand that, then again probable not. He has already said the present scope is only good out to 100 yards so that sounds like a pretty crappy scope which I wouldn't consider putting back on the .243 at a later time. Just saying to me it makes more sense to get a quality scope that is better suited for the .243 now and worry about another scope if and when a different rifle is bought.


Believe it or not, i came here to get a recomendation on a high powered scope, not a opinion on if i should get a high powered scope.

BTW, what is the problem with hunting with a high-powered scope?


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Gohon, my spotter takes 5 readings at 12, 10, 11, 13, and 9 at 1 min. intervals for 5 min. These are wind age readings from left to right. Full grade. My "target" is at 800 yards. My round will drift 6.7 inches per 1 mph full grade wind. How many MOA will I have to put on my weapon and in what direction?? Just an easy question. :wink:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

I guess this would "hold more merit" if it was in "real time"........ :roll:

sorry about that guys....I should of known!!!


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

He he he... I wish I would have checked back sooner.

ah hell. I'd average it out at 11 mph which would put you roughly 68" right so put on 8.5 MOA of left windage or 34 clicks (with a 1/4" 100 yard scope)

If you have the time have the spotter watch the wind meter and give you a "send it" when it reads 11mph You may be off a bit depending on terrain, but you didn't give enough info to compensate for that. 

huntin1


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

I would go 9...that is just me. Damn you, Gohon was suppose to answer. :beer: Now you have wrecked it for all of us!! 8)


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

*huntin1 wrote:*


> ah hell. I'd average it out at 11 mph which would put you roughly 68" right so put on 8.5 MOA of left windage or 34 clicks (with a 1/4" 100 yard scope)
> 
> If you have the time have the spotter watch the wind meter and give you a "send it" when it reads 11mph You may be off a bit depending on terrain, but you didn't give enough info to compensate for that.


I wouldn't compensate any. I'd put my gillie suit on, and put the old "belly crawl"stalk on them. Any sniper worth his salt should be able to get within 100 yards of his target without detection.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Yeah I didn't think till after I clicked submit. Sorry man, but he had almost an hour before I even saw the post. :roll:

I'll buy you a beer to make up for it.

(I'd probably go 9 too depending on the situation and what the target is)

:beer:

huntin1


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Wow...... for a guy that says "* i'm a complete noob when it comes to scopes.........target turrets? Good glass? How do i know if i'm getting a good glass? MIL dot?*" your getting a little huffy aren't you. The opinions being offered were not whether you should get a high powered scope or not but just how high a power of a scope. You ask a question on a board like this you should expect many different opinions. If you can't accept that then you are in the wrong place.

Jiffy I'm not sure what point you were trying to make as I don't see the connection to the discussion. Everyone has a different opinion. I gave mine, you gave yours. Oh, since you told him "dont even worry about a scope worthy of 1000 yards. I don't think your ready yet. Buy a good mid range scope (3x9 Nikon Monarch with a DUPLEX RETICLE for example) and dont worry about shooting past 300 to 350" I doubt if he wants to hear from either of us. :beer:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

give me a break............


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Remington 7400 said:


> I wouldn't compensate any. I'd put my gillie suit on, and put the old "belly crawl"stalk on them. Any sniper worth his salt should be able to get within 100 yards of his target without detection.


Ever done a 700 yard belly crawl, in full ghillie, dragging a 14 pound rifle?

Any sniper worth his salt can stalk to within 100 yards, but can also make an 800 yard shot.

Besides it more fun whacking them targets at long range.  :sniper:

:beer:

huntin1


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

for goodness sake huntin1 can't I mess with you a little?
 
I'm no professional sniper so I probably can't consistantly :sniper: targets at 800 yards.

I did once put a 600 yard belly crawl on a monster non-typical 13 point buck. Closed the distance, and still ended up shoting a 320 yard shot(he decided to move while I was crawling), .300 Weatherby mag delivered from a Ruger Number 1, prone off 9 inch bipods if you are wondering. He went straight down!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If I remember he was talking about targets. Heck, I get I can sneak within five yards of a bullseye, and it want even know I am there.

muzzleflash, I think like you. Why buy a scope now, and then a better one later, when a good one will do just fine now, and fit the bill perfectly later.

Want to save some money? Hunt1 and I have been shooting the 4.5 X14 mil dot, size parallax focus, Nikon Buckmaster. The crosshairs are a little heavy for anything smaller than 1/2 inch at 100 yards, but it fits the bill perfectly for us. It has target turrets, but they are low letting your rifle slip into a rigid scabard if you want to do that. I like mine so well I just purchased a second, and got my sights on a third.

Go for it, and you will learn by doing. Count on putting a lot of lead down range. Get yourself a swinging target and start hammering them at different ranges. Forget the paper for long range practice, if you hit a six inch swinging target at 600 yards just make it swing for a while.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Remington 7400 said:



> for goodness sake huntin1 can't I mess with you a little?


Of course you can. Probably shoulda put a few smilies in there. Didn't take it seriously. 

My skin ain't that thin. :lol: :lol:

:beer: :beer:

huntin1


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Gohon said:


> Wow...... for a guy that says "* i'm a complete noob when it comes to scopes.........target turrets? Good glass? How do i know if i'm getting a good glass? MIL dot?*" your getting a little huffy aren't you. The opinions being offered were not whether you should get a high powered scope or not but just how high a power of a scope. You ask a question on a board like this you should expect many different opinions. If you can't accept that then you are in the wrong place.


Sorry dude, was in a pissy mood and i didn't read your post correctly ...........

Ok............another question(s); for the _New Burris 6-24x50 Xtreme Tactical XTR 30mm Rifle Scope_ (god that is a long name), any suggested mountings? Also, do i need to worry about those 20 degree angle bases (or whatever they were) for shooting at 600 yards?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

muzzleflash,

You should not need the 20MOA base out to 600 yards, standard base will do fine. As for mounts, I like tactical mounts but most people think they are overkill. In a tactical mount, I'd go with a Ken Farrell base and Tactical Precision Systems TSR-W rings. With that scope you will likely need high rings. If you don't care about the tactical rings I'd go with the same Ken Farrell base and Burris Signature Zee rings.

Ken Farrell

TSR-W Rings

Burris Signature Rings

huntin1


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

What are the pros and cons of going with tactical rings? Also, if i do get them, will i want to get low, medium, or high..........or is that just personal preference?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Tactical rings are tougher, they will take more abuse. But they also cost more. I believe that the Burris scope you are looking at has a 50mm objective and you will need high rings so that the front of the scope does not touch the barrel.

huntin1


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Ok, kewl.

Thanks for all you guys' help!!


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Ok, the Burris and Sightron scopes huntin1 suggested seem to be out most everywhere, or will take a month to ship...........any other scopes (mil-dot, up to 24X) you guys recommend? Also, do you have any more sites that are good for buying scopes?


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Try these guys: http://riflescopes.com/

They usually have a pretty good supply. I'm telling ya, if you can at all somewhat afford one go with a Night Force. I kind of "went out on a limb" when I bought mine but I have never been more happy with any other scope. They are awesome!!!


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Hah, no, don't want to spend that much............i was thinking in the $800.00 range...........


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Midway can get this one, special order-30 days

Sightron S3

Same scope-in stock

Lock Stock & Barrel

Here's a Burris Tactical, looks like they are in stock. Have to contact them.

The OpticZone-Burris

huntin1


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

Check this website.

http://www.natchezss.com


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Are Sightron scopes as good as Burris scopes?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Yes they are as good. And IMO Sightron has better customer service and a better warranty. But Burris does make a good product and in most cases you won't need to return it for service anyway.

huntin1


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## REMY (Jun 20, 2006)

I just picked up a Kahles multi zero 4-12x56 and locked it on my new 300 win mag. So far so good. It has 5 settings that are used. So far 200,400,500,600 and hopefully will stretch 700. I havnt had a chance to shoot 700 yet. I also love my burris 4-16x42 mildot on my 25-06 rem sendero. Once I got it figured out and made my little chart it has killed quite a few yotes out to 700. My kahles though as far as what I have shot is super clear, good eye relief and is easy to set up. Here is the link if you are interested.
http://www.kahlesoptik.com/products/CL_multizero.html


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

> Sightron has better customer service and a better warranty


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Remington 7400,

You doubt me?

I've never had a problem with a Sightron scope, but I have talked to a few who have. Scope was replaced, no questions. Yes, I said replaced, not repaired. I did call Sightron and asked if painting their scope camo would void the warranty, they said no, only if I painted it bright pink, and then laughed and said, "our scopes are warrantied, period, paint it whatever you like."

As to Burris, I used to have a Burris Signature 3x9, it deleloped a problem with holding zero. Sent it back to Burris, they repaired it, it took just a bit over six weeks. When I got it back the elevation turret was loose, called Burris, they asked what I did to make it come loose. I explained that they had just repaired it, I had not even mounted it back on the rifle when I found that the turret was loose. They finally told me to send it back to them after arguing with me for a half hour. Another six weeks went by and I got it back. Checked it out, mounted it on a rifle and check to make sure the zero problem had been fixed and then sold it and bought a Sightron. I will never have another Burris scope. Since then I have talked to a number of people who have had similar problems with Burris' customer service, or should I say lack thereof.

I will say that those that own Burris scopes, and have not had any problems with the scope requiring warranty service are happy with their scopes, I was too, until I had to send it back to them.

huntin1


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

Really!? Burris fixed my scope no questions asked. The one I had problems with was a 2x Posi-Lock pistol scope. It wouldn't hold zero on a S&W 629 .44 mag, I called Burris, and told them the problem. The told me that the scope in question was designed to take recoil from .500 S&W, .45/70 contenders and the like. Told me to send it to them, I mailed it to them via Priority Mail and in 10 days they had a new one sitting on my door step. No questions asked.

Over the years I have sent scopes back to every major manufacture including, Burris, Simmons, Bushnell, BSA, Tasco, Nikon, and Leupold.

I explained the Burris above, Simmons wanted 40 dollars to rebuild a 4x32 .22mag scope, I told them to shove it and promptly sold everything I had with the Simmons name on it. Bushnell rebuilt a 3200 series that was fogging up, but I never trusted that scope again after that, and ended up letting my cousin have it for $50.00. BSA were real @$$holes, especially considering the optic in question was a $30.00 dollar reddot from a Marlin Model 60. It had faulty wiring, every third shot the reddot would go out, called BSA, they told me the scope was not rated for recoil. :-? . Tasco, has REPLACED everything I ever sent back to them, even though I no longer own any Tascos I was always impressed with the Customer Service. Especially since one of the scopes replaced was a 3-9x40 World Class that had been atop a .45/70 Guide Gun, crosshairs were knocked completely out of it, NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Granted I only returned a scope to Nikon to have the parallex adjusted, I must say they were very professional about the whole process, and had my scope back to me in less than a week. Leupold treated me much like the way you describe Burris. Simply put, I don't own any Leupolds execept for a rangefinder, and if I could have bought a Nikon, Burris, or even the Leica with the True Ballistic Range capability, I would have.

The scopes I own today are all either Burris or Nikon. I do still have a 4200 series Bushnell on a Ruger .243, very effective walking coyote gun, I'm tempted to leave it, and probably will since it is zeroed in. But, if something ever goes wrong with it, she will be replaced with a Burris.

:sniper:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Well, I'm glad you have had good luck with Burris. my experience was not the same and I know quite a few others who's experience with Burris customer service was the same as mine.

You can have Burris, I'll stick with Sightron and Nikon.

:sniper:

:beer:

huntin1


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Has anyone sent a Night Force scope back???? :wink: :wink: :lol: :beer:

I was just wondering.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Us commoners can't afford Nightforce. :-?

:sniper:

:beer:

huntin1


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

> Us commoners can't afford Nightforce.


 :withstupid:

You can say that again! :lol: Anybody seen what a new NightForce is going for these days! Much to high for this poor country boy!

Al least we can agree about Nikon!

:beer:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Hey, I am more common than you think. :lol: :beer:

What do you want??? A scope or a car??? :wink:

Dont get me wrong. I had to SAVE for a very long time to get what I have right now. I dont have alot of money!!!!


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Yeah Jiffy, I know. A few years ago I was saving in hopes of getting a Nightforce or something similar. Two trips to Mayo Clinic took care of that, still ain't recovered completely.

Remington 7400,

Yeah, we agree on the Nikons, will have to agree to disagree on the Burris. 

:beer:

huntin1


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hey Remington 7400, maybe you might consider having someone else buy your scopes for you. You seem to have an awful lot of bad luck with the ones you've bought.....


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

No I've just owned alot. 

Started out uneducated and saw absolutely no reason to give a few hundred for a scope when I could get a 30 dollar scope and spend the rest on another gun. That is where I come into most of the Tasco, I used to be the guy that put the 3-9x40 Silver Antler on the Remington 700 in .7mm Rem Mag! And even though I did send alot back, they always fixed them, so why did I care?

Eventually I acquired a pretty good collection of Golden Antlers and Simmons 8 points, for a long time the best scope I owned was a Tasco World Class, bought used because there was no way I was paying full price for it!

Then I traded for a rifle that had a Simmons .44mag on it, saw a big improvement over the 30 dollar Tasco, bought a few higher dollar Simmons, had problems sold them all! And by all I mean everything in my cabinet, one morning I attacked my entire arsenal with a screw driver and went to the local pawn shop with a good sized box of scopes, I was finally tired of junk scopes.

I discovered a Bushnell Banner while at the pawn shop and traded the entire box (10-15) for 2 Banners.  They seemed to be good so I broke down and went Bushnell. Eventually I saw the need for a higher dollar scope so I went high end Bushnell.

About 10 years ago, I received a Burris 3-9x40 for Christmas(Mom had got Burris and Bushnell mixed up  ), feel in love with it, and started replacing what I had left.

Shortly after that I bought a Nikon and decided they were good too.

Somewhere between the high end Bushnell and the first Burris I traded and got a Leupold on a Winchester M70, it was junk, rifle shot out, scope total garbage. Been around a few other Leupolds since than, never really impressed by any of them.

BSA came onto the scene a few years ago, guess I regressed because I had to have one of those too cheap to be true red dots. I also bought one of their Mil-Dot scopes, Red Dot died every 3 shots, Mil-Dot looked like it had grease on the lenses. Got my senses back real fast!

Now I've got everyhting switched over to either Burris or Nikon, with the exeception of one Bushnell.

:sniper:

Man I'm typing alot tonight!


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

See 7400 if you would have just started out with a Night Force you would be money ahead.......aaaaahhhhh........maybe. :wink:


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

Maybe!
:lol:


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

But what whould it cost to scope all of my rifles with NightForce. Thats my problem, when I find something good, i want to convert everything to it!

:beer:


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Great, thanks for the info, just ordered a Burris...........hopefully it comes soon.

Again, thanks for the help!


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

I just got a scheels hunter myself put it on my .300. It is 6-18X42 and works wonders. I got someone who is into long range and competition shooting to help me understand it. These guys gave you the same advice I got when looking for a long range scope. I would suggest when you get it and take it out shooting to have someone with, it helps to have a second pair of eyes. Also take alot of ammo along, and lastly right down the yards and scope mark that corilats with it. Hope you have as much fun with it as I am and good luck.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

:eyeroll:


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

I have been converting our deer and varmint rifles to Scheels brand scopes (4 so far...), I have one left to replace for sure. Another I have isn't Scheels but the clarity it gives me is acceptable and I do not intend to replace. Dollar for dollar, Scheels sells a fine scope for me. 
Ask Jiffy, I am just a common man purchasing a common scope..... :beer:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

mossymo, I wasnt shaking my head at invectors choice of optics; rather the way he words his posts.

I dont own a Scheels scope. However, I have heard nothing but good things about them. As far as I know they are pretty good.

Just for the record MossyMo is just a common man and a pretty cool guy also. Not unlike myself in many ways. Although I think invector may think differently. About me anyway.....  :lol:

Take it easy invector.....do you have a word processing program?? It may help convey your messages more positively. Everybody makes mistakes in grammer/spelling but when they are really bad it takes away from the message. Just a freindly tip. :beer:


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> . I wouldn't even shoot a prairie dog beyond 500 yards with a 223, because it lacks the energy. Your 243 should reach 600 yards this way.


One of the stipulations for adopting a new cartridge for the military was that it could penatrate throught a helmet and human head at 400 meters. The 5.56mm was the new cartridge very simular to the .223 as I am sure you know! With that being said if you can hit a pdog at 500 yards it will have plenty of energy for a quick kill, heck it would kill you at that range! :2cents:


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## muzzleflash (Jun 26, 2006)

Ok, so i may be getting a Winchester 7mm mag, so that should be a improvement from the .243.

How do you guys suggest i mount the scope? Like should i take it to someone to put it on, or is there a way to do it myself?


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

If you mount it your self just make sure it has enough room form you eye to the scope without losing sight though the scope. If the scope is too far forward you will have a hard time focusing with your eye on the target. If its too far back and you pull the trigger on the 7mm you might hit your self. I have seen some realy bad pics of people who have had scope shinners. I had someone put the scope on for me when I got my .300 and they mounted it so I could still see though it with no probs but did not have the recoil push the scope into my eye.


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