# Where are all the dogs?



## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

I must say that I am rather dumbfounded by how few dogs are being trained by hunters. Maybe the hunters are training their dogs in their back yards. But, I sure don't see any dogs out working on drills in the local marshes and high grassy fields.

I live in the Twin Cities suburbs. I have been working my young dog in a dozen different spots over the last two summers and there has only been two times when anyone has even stopped to just let their dogs run. Nobody is actually training them.

There must be a lot of mediocre dogs out there on opening day.


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## Zekeland (Oct 6, 2005)

I am not from the twin cities area...but, I tend to stick to our training grounds that our local retriever club owns.

Just cause you don't see them....
I'm sure some guys train in places few dog owners know about


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

I'm glad to hear that you are still training...I train daily even though hunting season..(Even thouogh I hunt nearly daily)..


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## mdaniel (May 2, 2007)

I train daily except for Sundays, as that is a Day for Dawgy. 
There are three differant Fields I train, One is a pond, Two is a high grass, and three has high grass with small tree's. This keeps him up on scent, as most all this is piles and blind retrieves. I guess it worked well because two live retrieves where in high grass, under brush.


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

Perry Thorvig said:


> Nobody is actually training them.
> 
> There must be a lot of mediocre dogs out there on opening day.


I would have to dissagree. There are many clubs in the twin cities area that have many people training. I belong to three clubs and see people every day(as I train every day). Stillwater, Princeton and St. Cloud just to name a few spots. You can find people on these grounds all the time. You have look in the right spots before you make those kind of statments :lol:


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

Perry Thorvig said:


> I must say that I am rather dumbfounded by how few dogs are being trained by hunters. *Maybe the hunters are training their dogs in their back yards. *
> 
> There must be a lot of mediocre dogs out there on opening day.


You hit it right there.

They are "training".

Five throws of the bumper, 30 yards nor more, no less on a manicured lawn in the fenced backyard.

If "Hairball" brings back four of the five....that's a good day of "training".
:lost:


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

tumblebuck said:


> Perry Thorvig said:
> 
> 
> > I must say that I am rather dumbfounded by how few dogs are being trained by hunters. *Maybe the hunters are training their dogs in their back yards. *
> ...


There is more to training than that???  
Someone told me wrong... :x

I count 3 out of 5 as success... :beer:


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## jwdinius1 (Dec 14, 2006)

i also take my lab out to local crp fields and marshes, i havent seen anyone else either, ive gotten some weird stares though when i am walking a crp field and they cant see my dog!!!


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

Check your local reg before you go out and train on public hunting grounds. I think you have to have a permit to train on most spots in MN.


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

No offense, JW, but what exactly are you "training" your dog to do? What's the purpose for walking a CRP field?

Is this a young dog you're teaching to quarter or whoa? Is the dog on a check cord teaching it to hunt within range? Are you carrying a gun and firing a popper when a bird flushes....teaching steady to shot?

It sounds to me more like a walk with the opportunity for dog to find a bird. I do those too, but there is a difference between "training" and getting some exercise.


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

tumblebuck said:


> No offense, JW, but what exactly are you "training" your dog to do? What's the purpose for walking a CRP field?
> 
> Is this a young dog you're teaching to quarter or whoa? Is the dog on a check cord teaching it to hunt within range? Are you carrying a gun and firing a popper when a bird flushes....teaching steady to shot?
> 
> It sounds to me more like a walk with the opportunity for dog to find a bird. I do those too, but there is a difference between "training" and getting some exercise.


Iwould not bag on him too much...We don't know what he is doing. There could be many things he could be setting up. He only says he is walking with his dog in the CRP. He may be setting up a school blind. He may be working on OB through the larger cover. He could have placed bumpers in the brush and working on a type of quartering. There are many possibilities for a method for his madness. If it works for him and you do not have to share a field with him, why care enough to post this question to him. For me this does not work. I train my labs for AKC HT placement(along with hunting) and train 6 days a week on club training grounds and other spots like these. I don't see a reason to train in CRP either, yet I am not going to fault the guy for it and call him out on a forum. The point is he is trying to do something with his dog. That is better than a few that I know that spent 2 weeks a year(the two prior to a season) training. :roll:


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

:roll:

Read the post again. I asked what he was trying to accomplish.

What concept is he training? or just going for a walk?


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

tumblebuck said:


> No offense, JW, but what exactly are you "training" your dog to do? What's the purpose for walking a CRP field?
> 
> but there is a difference between "training" and getting some exercise.


These words make it sound like you are insinuating that he does not know what he is doing. I am not going to get in a pissing match if you think he is doing wrong or right with his dog. We all know that there are many ways to train many different dogs. He gives us very little info about his place in training. Kind of hard to ask motives without a few more key bits of info.

Unless you know the guy and just wanted to give a little crap, that I can condone... :beer:


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

tumblebuck said:


> No offense, JW, but what exactly are you "training" your dog to do? What's the purpose for walking a CRP field?
> _
> *Is this a young dog you're teaching to quarter or whoa? Is the dog on a check cord teaching it to hunt within range? Are you carrying a gun and firing a popper when a bird flushes....teaching steady to shot?*_
> 
> It sounds to me more like a walk with the opportunity for dog to find a bird. I do those too, but there is a difference between "training" and getting some exercise.


And what part of the second paragraph (that you conveniently left out) - -and the first paragraph for that matter - don't you understand?

Seems I'm asking for some more information.

Unless question marks after sentences don't mean what I was taught they mean.[/i]


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

*NODAK OUTDOORS* We Know Drama!


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

tumblebuck said:


> tumblebuck said:
> 
> 
> > No offense, JW, but what exactly are you "training" your dog to do? What's the purpose for walking a CRP field?
> ...


Again, I don't want to get in a pissing match about your post. IMO all of your posts on this thread make it sound like you hold the standard of training for this gentalmen. I just think it is good that he is working his dog. Too many times I hunt with people that have out of control dogs. He may be one a step above the rest. I will take my own advise and stay out of this, due to I will not be in a field with you,regards


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

Fosse,

I'm not setting standards for anybody. Just want to know what is trying to be accomplished.

You see the posts on here all the time: Hairball is gunshy! Hairball won't retrieve! Hairball drops the chicken! Hairball won't heel!....and ad infinitum.

With a little education and understanding of basic training concepts these posts wouldn't happen. But people think they know better or plain just don't know.

You and I agree on this: Training is not throwing the dummy in the backyard a couple nights a week where Hairball is allowed to run uncontrolled. Training is not unstructured walks in the park where Hairball gets to chase the ducks or squirrels.

I allow my dogs to do those things, too...but I know (and they know) we aren't training and are out just for fun.


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## dwshunt (Apr 26, 2003)

I usually get the mallard muncher out every day on the Mississippi River just north of here. The other water or slews have too much green stuff in them and I'm paranoid about that.

She is 6.5 years old and does well for me. She did refuse to get a duck she didn't see fall last year and I've been working on that all summer. No refusals at all, so I hope she doesn't try that again. I did force break her myself a couple years ago with good results for an amatuer. I find I need to do refresher force break training every year and so far she doesn't drop birds.

Good Hunting.


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

tumblebuck said:


> Fosse,
> 
> I'm not setting standards for anybody. Just want to know what is trying to be accomplished.
> 
> ...


All training must be structured in a way that the trainer has a goal in mind of what is needed to be accomplished. From the day that formal training begins to the day that you retire the pup you must hold a standard that is never broken. If you are not consistant with what is expected of the dog you will open a bag of worms that will be hard to close. My advise to anyone whom does not have a training program that they follow is to get one and stick to it. Lardy, Farmer, Stawski and Graham to name a small few. I choose Stawski's methods for my pups training. There is not an excuse any more for any dog to not be trained. There is enough media out there to provide every rookie with the tools to have a dog that looks like it has been with a pro for years. Take advantage of the day and age that we are in. My grandfather would be shocked with all the info we have avalible to use today to play our game of dog training

(getting off soap box now) :lol:


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

Fosse said:


> tumblebuck said:
> 
> 
> > tumblebuck said:
> ...


any time spent with your dog outside is good time. You know its not about how good your dog is but how much you enjoy each other. I will match my pointing lab against most dogs with her being only 15 months old but thats not what its about. Its about watching your dog hit a scent trail and lock up on point. its about the look in a labs eyes when they are bringing back a bird. its about watching your dog work the wind and just plain working. My dog will never do squat in a trial and i could care less she is a great bird dog and thats all that matters. yes you must be consistant and have rules enforced but you cant forget to have some fun! Not every trip has to be a training session with clear goals and objectives. a day in the field is my goal and to work together and have some fun!!


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

kgpcr
any time spent with your dog outside is good time. You know its not about how good your dog is but how much you enjoy each other. I will match my pointing lab against most dogs with her being only 15 months old but thats not what its about. Its about watching your dog hit a scent trail and lock up on point. its about the look in a labs eyes when they are bringing back a bird. its about watching your dog work the wind and just plain working. My dog will never do squat in a trial and i could care less she is a great bird dog and thats all that matters. yes you must be consistant and have rules enforced but you cant forget to have some fun! Not every trip has to be a training session with clear goals and objectives. a day in the field is my goal and to work together and have some fun!![/quote said:


> I completly agaree. You must let dogs be dogs. You train...train...train...train and don't let the dogs have a release from the pressure you end up with a machine. I personally like that my dog has lots of personality and likes to get loves once in a while. To many people that I train with have dogs that could care less if you pet them all they want is that bird. My field training session is not much more than 15-30 min depending on how many people I am training with that day, sometime it is less. You can not loose site of the fact that they are dogs that need positive attention as much as the goal driven training. Like I said before, there are many ways to train dogs. What works for me, more than likely does not work for you. We all have a common goal in mind, and that is what is best for our dogs...


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

> All training must be structured in a way that the trainer has a goal in mind of what is needed to be accomplished.


Exactly! :thumb:

So often people think they are "training" when they have no clear goal or concept of what they are doing. These sessions usually end up just creating bad habits or problems that can or cannot be fixed.



> any time spent with your dog outside is good time. You know its not about how good your dog is but how much you enjoy each other.





> Not every trip has to be a training session with clear goals and objectives. a day in the field is my goal and to work together and have some fun!!


Agreed. Let dogs be dogs. But know the difference between when you are trying to accomplish something (training) and when it is just for fun.


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Fosse said:


> Perry Thorvig said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody is actually training them.
> ...


I don't agree that there are "many clubs in the Twin Cities area." There are a few. I attended a few training sessions at Northern Flight near Hugo this summer. So, I know what is going on. I know that I can't make a 50 mile round trip after work every day to train my dog. I have to find places close to home.

The number of people who train at the clubs is a drop in the bucket compared to all the hunters that buy licenses in the fall, in my opinion. It just doesn't appear to me that there is much "real training" going on.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Perry Thorvig said:


> I must say that I am rather dumbfounded by how few dogs are being trained by hunters. Maybe the hunters are training their dogs in their back yards. But, I sure don't see any dogs out working on drills in the local marshes and high grassy fields.
> 
> I live in the Twin Cities suburbs. I have been working my young dog in a dozen different spots over the last two summers and there has only been two times when anyone has even stopped to just let their dogs run. Nobody is actually training them.
> 
> There must be a lot of mediocre dogs out there on opening day.


Many hunters may be in a situation like I am. My Springer is 7 and the Setter is 4 and they've been trained. They exercise in our 3 acre yard and we continue working on basic obedience, but they know how to hunt. I think a good dog from good breeding doesn't need to be trained all the time to be a good to excellent hunting dog.

I think there must be a lot of mediocre bred dogs that people try toturn into hunting dogs. That's why we always buy from a reputable breeder of hunting dogs, rather than two buddies that put two dogs together of the same breed.


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## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

Its a good thing your not going to get in a pissing match :roll:


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

[quote="Perry Thorvig
I don't agree that there are "many clubs in the Twin Cities area." There are a few. I attended a few training sessions at Northern Flight near Hugo this summer. So, I know what is going on. I know that I can't make a 50 mile round trip after work every day to train my dog. I have to find places close to home.

The number of people who train at the clubs is a drop in the bucket compared to all the hunters that buy licenses in the fall, in my opinion. It just doesn't appear to me that there is much "real training" going on.[/quote]

What city are you from?


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