# Fargo Mayer Denny Walaker and guns........again.



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Todays Forum.



> NRA targets Walaker's gun position
> A National Rifle Association-prompted campaign to convince Fargo Mayor Dennis Walaker to leave the group Mayors Against Illegal Guns has resulted in about 30 e-mails and letters to his office. And no responses from him.
> 
> By: John Lamb, INFORUM
> ...


I think its sad he doesn't respond. I also think, if he is in fact a gun owner, he must not be to bright. Throwing in with an anti-gun lot that obviously is after far more than just "fully automatic" weapons.

:eyeroll:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Walaker is hedging his votes. He knows he has high popularity and I'm thinking he feels that most people in Fargo view the NRA as a radical group and that he will be fine.

This whole thing is disapointing. It is sad that he only received 30 emails about this, and it is very sad that Walaker is using his position as our mayor on a group that is led by rabid anti-gunner Michael Bloomberg. Bloomberg has few if any values in common with about 90% of people in Fargo. Walaker seems to have forgotten that he is supposed to represent Fargo as well as lead Fargo.[/i]


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

MAIG is run and primarily funded by michael bloomberg. Here are some of remarkably dirty doings as one of the nation's most prominent anti-gunners.

http://www.ohioccw.org/files/BATFE_Letter.pdf

http://www.saf.org/viewpr-new.asp?id=241


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ill also add, I was neither threatening, nor "venting" in my email to him. I merely asked what his official stance on firearms was.

Apparently he's "above" answering a constituents legitimate question.

Methinks he's a bit on the arrogant side.


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## bjertness07 (Jan 4, 2005)

I can't believe you guys. He's a mayor, right? He's not a puppet on a string that must abort his personal values just to cater to 30 emails from his constituents. Read into the article. Did Walaker say he was against firearms? No. Does Walaker respect and partake in hunting? Yes. Is he a fellow gun owner? Yes. Is his main objection against illegal, fully automatic firearms? Yes. Get ahold of yourselves and quit attacking him for having beliefs and sticking to them. I'm actually very happy to hear that he's like this, instead of a twofaced politician that will turn over his beliefs just to keep votes. As much as you may worry, I highly doubt that Walaker will do away with firearms in Fargo nor will he have any say (if he left the group) to legalize automatic firearms. As for not answering your letters, emails, and phone calls...he is a busy man. A figure head and leader in the community. He also must know which arguments are menial with no promising future. If you were actually able to speak with him, do you really think you'll sway his opinion or just become more frustrated because he's firm in his beliefs?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

bjertness07 said:


> I can't believe you guys. He's a mayor, right? He's not a puppet on a string that must abort his personal values just to cater to 30 emails from his constituents. Read into the article. Did Walaker say he was against firearms? No. Does Walaker respect and partake in hunting? Yes. Is he a fellow gun owner? Yes. Is his main objection against illegal, fully automatic firearms? Yes.


No, hes not a puppet. But I expect an elected official to at least address a constituent when they have questions. Which is what my email was.

Apparently he feels he's above that. Like so many elected officials these days.

And being a "hunter", and "gun owner", hes been dupped big time into belonging to, and obviously supporting a group that's after far more than illegal guns. Its kind of like a hunter joining PETA because their against animal cruelty, even though anyone with a half a brain knows PETA is against far more than that.

Get a clue buddy.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

bjertness07 said:


> I can't believe you guys. He's a mayor, right? He's not a puppet on a string that must abort his personal values just to cater to 30 emails from his constituents. Read into the article. Did Walaker say he was against firearms? No. Does Walaker respect and partake in hunting? Yes. Is he a fellow gun owner? Yes. Is his main objection against illegal, fully automatic firearms? Yes. Get ahold of yourselves and quit attacking him for having beliefs and sticking to them. I'm actually very happy to hear that he's like this, instead of a twofaced politician that will turn over his beliefs just to keep votes. As much as you may worry, I highly doubt that Walaker will do away with firearms in Fargo nor will he have any say (if he left the group) to legalize automatic firearms. As for not answering your letters, emails, and phone calls...he is a busy man. A figure head and leader in the community. He also must know which arguments are menial with no promising future. If you were actually able to speak with him, do you really think you'll sway his opinion or just become more frustrated because he's firm in his beliefs?


Get a hold of ourselves? Maybe you should get a hold of your keyboard and do a little research on MAIG, MAIG members, and Bloomberg's track record on guns before you go firing off some advice. Most people don't want full autos out there but that is not all this group stands for. Do you want NYC, Chicago, and California gun laws here in ND? Keep in mind that Bloomberg is one of the nation's wealthiest people, in other words another elitist trying to control guns. Bloomberg, much like his cohort Rosie O'Donnel relies on armed body guards for protection. If we don't need guns why does he?

I don't think Walaker is going to do anything with Fargo's gun laws. He can't, it is in the ND Century Code. I didn't send him a threatening email, in fact the article answered most of my questions. He is no doubt a busy man but a simple form letter response would have been more than enough. I am irritated that Walaker joined a group led by Bloomberg, a group that has recently lost significant numbers, and is going against what a majority of the people of fargo are in favor of. Once again this group is after more than illegal guns. It is simply another anti-gun group that is after all guns and more interested in restricting everyone than dealing with the problems themselves, the criminals.

Once again gun owners are sitting on their hands.


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## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

Mayors against ILLEGAL GUNS--he is a good man-nuff said


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

fesnthunner said:


> Mayors against ILLEGAL GUNS--he is a good man-nuff said


Some people are just dense I guess.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> Methinks he's a bit on the arrogant side.


Don't get arrogance and confidence mixed up. He is not an arrogant guy!
Methinks he is going to run for a different political office in the future! Maybe Gov. *IF* Hoeven choses to run for a senate seat?


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## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

Not even funny. No personal attacks. Read the TOS if there are any questions.

MSG Rude


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Maverick said:


> > Methinks he's a bit on the arrogant side.
> 
> 
> Don't get arrogance and confidence mixed up. He is not an arrogant guy!
> Methinks he is going to run for a different political office in the future! Maybe Gov. *IF* Hoeven choses to run for a senate seat?


Did you see him at all on TV during the flood coverage? Sure came off arrogant as hell to me.

Not saying he doesn't do a good job, just comes off as very arrogant.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Not saying he doesn't do a good job, just comes off as very arrogant.


I thought the same thing back in 1997 when they had the flood, and before he was mayor. From Jamestown here, and by watching the news, it was evident people liked the job he was doing. At the same time if you had a pump on the Red River that sucked as much as his personality did you could have run the Gulf of Mexico through it in two days.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

So you guys know what it takes to get a city ready for a flood never seen before? Again...don't mix confidence with arrogance. If GF would have listened to him and his warings in 97 he may have saved that city as well.... :lol:

Don't hate a guy till to have met him. I had dinner with the guy back in 97 at a house that was saved off of Elm street(my aunt/uncles house). I didn't see a bit arrogance!


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## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

Mayor Walaker in my opinion is a very confident man and shows confidence in his ability to lead the city of Fargo through a flood fight. He has gained much recognition from all over the country for his leadership through this last flood. When dealing with opinions from federal agencies you have to show an enormous amount of confidence, and that may have been percieved as arrogance by some and maybe he is a bit arrogant. But there are a lot of you that come off as more arrogant than Walaker when you post things on this site. Mayor Walaker has done more for his community that he serves than many of you ever will come close to doing for yours. Arrogance of one is usually percieved from a jealous few.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

As you may have noticed I acknowledged his abilities. He is still arrogant. If not he would respond to at least one of his critics in the area of gun control. Mayor Bloomberg uses the term "illegal" to push all out gun control. It's a shame having anyone from North Dakota associated with Bloomberg in this manner.



> I had dinner with the guy back in 97 at a house that was saved off of Elm street(my aunt/uncles house). I didn't see a bit arrogance!


I wouldn't expect you would. If he was in that setting he would be foolish to show any arrogance. It was a nice gesture of him. Still it has no bearing on his stand on guns. It also has no bearing on his personality over all. Heck I was at the Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in D. C. at the same time as Bush sr. It doesn't make me qualified to speak of his personality. In those settings most people act well behaved.

Talk to someone who worked for the man. You can judge a man much better by how he treats those below him than how he treats those above him.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

here you slumdogs go...

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=158594200006

*my name is Latika*


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> He is still arrogant


Please meet the guy before choose to label him instead of basing your opinion off of the news!

Do I support his decision in supporting this organization...No

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=Dick+ ... 4313261..1

Right back at ya Dosch.... :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

You can't get anymore foolish that trust government with your rights. Here is a pic from South Africa. I got it in an email today. They talked about all the illegal firearms. They talked about AK47's. All I see are sporting rifles. Sorry, I can't copy the pic. It's full of bolt actin rifles and double shotguns. Not a single AK47 to be seen.

Here is the link: http://www.saps.gov.za/docs_publs/publi ... 6/pg33.pdf



> On Saturday, 3 June,
> the SAPS in the
> Western Cape
> destroyed 6 443
> ...


This was the email from my friend.



> Here's an example of firearms destruction in South Africa today. Please note the absence of ANY* kind of assault weapons as all that's there apparentely are sporting rifles and shotguns with a few obsolete Enfields thrown in. Couldn't happen here? I'll bet that's the same way the mainstream population in South Africa felt 20 years ago. This is where we will end of with any exhibition of complacency on our part:
> * The article claims they were AK47s but I don't see any and it's clear the bulk of items destroyed are sporting weapons.
> Jim


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Wait I thought we were talking about The United States of America. Not South Africa...... Glad you friend is looking out for the S. Africans....Africaans is kind of hard to understand. Even for the locals.....



> It should be noted that although South Africa has the second highest violent crime rate in the World (revised to no. 1 position by nationmaster.com crime stats Sept 2007) - 98% of gun crime is performed with illegal (unlicensed) weapons, according to the SAPS.


from.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... uth_Africa


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Funny. We are talking about America. Did you notice the transition where the fellow asks if we think it can't happen here? You have to read the whole thing. It is simply another nation disarming it's citizens like England, Australia, etc. It's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

When the chips are down which side of the fence will the Fargo mayor be on?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Just for the record.......I think he did do an outstanding job this spring during the flood. The man does know what it takes to run a city, and run a city under the most drastic of conditions. I even opened my email to him referencing MAIG with this. I simply asked him what his official stance on guns was. I don't know the man personally, I only saw him several times during the flood with the National Guard at a distance. Yet, he felt he was "above" answering me. I had to find out his stance in the paper. I didn't threaten, I didn't put him on the defensive, yet I got no reply. What I did gather, through my own assumptions, of which were backed up by that article in the Forum, was that Denny may be a big arrogant to where he feels he doesn't need to answer a constituents legitimate questions.

None of that changes the fact that he's oriented himself with an OBVIOUSLY radical anti-gun group.

Google MAIG. The crap that pops up should scare the crap out of any gun owner!

Who isn't against illegal guns? I know I am. The fact is, this group is after far more than illegal guns, plain and simple.

Mayors Against Illegal Guns.........thats like saying PETA isn't such a bad group. I mean hey, their name is People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Im for the ethical treatment of animals, maybe I should join?

Like I said before, some of you need to get a clue. Pull your head out of the orifice it may be in, and open your eyes.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I have only talked to Walaker a few times, briefly both times. He didn't seem arrogant. He has good reason to question the Weather Service and the corps, their track record with the Red River is not exactly a shining one. Keep in mind that a lot of his work for the community was his job, it is not like he is the Mother Theresa of the city of Fargo.

However, this isn't about flooding it is about guns. Just because he is a popular politician and has done a great job during floods (he has had a lot of help, Mark Bittner is one who doesn't get enough credit) and other issues doesn't mean he is above answering to his constituents. Babe Ruth was a great hitter but he struck out every once in a while too. We have not done a good enough job watching this issue, as Plainsman said.



> Arrogance of one is usually percieved from a jealous few


I am not sure how you confuse jealousy and arrogance with surprise and anger. I should add that I voted for Walaker too.

I posted a link to Bloomberg's illegal activities, interesting that it is OK to break gun laws to make more gun laws. Here are more of the groups leaders.

Thomas Menino, Boston mayor- pushing to sue gun manufacturers.
Sheila Dixon, Baltimore mayor- indicted for perjury and theft.
Eddie Perez, Hartford mayor- indicted for taking a bribe and falsifying evidence.
Larry Langford, Birmingham mayor- failure to report earnings to the SEC
and the list goes on and on.

Now tell me again why we should trust these brilliant politicians with anything, let alone our gun rights. Tell me again that it won't happen here? Cass Sunstein is a friend to gun owners and hunters, right? uke:

MAIG is losing members, here is a letter from one recent dropout, read this and tell me that Walaker should be in this group:
http://www.predatorxtreme.com/ArticleCo ... px?id=1853
here is another one:
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/6869


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ohhh come on TK, they don't want OUR guns. Just the illegal ones.:wink:

:eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

barebackjack said:


> Ohhh come on TK, they don't want OUR guns. Just the illegal ones.:wink:
> 
> :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


It must be a coincidence that it is always the elitists who want to take the guns. Banning guns may not happen, the elitists probably don't want that. They just want to make guns, hunting, and sport shooting so expensive that only they can afford it. But that too has never happened before :evil:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> It must be a coincidence that it is always the elitists who want to take the guns.


They also think the average American is to stupid to take care of themselves and the government run by them should do it. They will tell you they are intellectuals to begin with and expect you to buckle at the knees and kiss their boots.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> Did you notice the transition where the fellow asks if we think it can't happen here? You have to read the whole thing.


I did indeed see the part where you compare the United States of America to a 3rd world country (and the others) that have the highest violent crime rate in the world. Very bad comparison if you ask me! Just so you know I did read the whole thing. What I didn't see was anything to worry me as all these thing are happening in other countries than here. If it was happening in Arizona or New York then it would be reason to worry.
I can see you didn't get my joke about Africaans though. If you new any of the locals you would understand what I am trying to say.

Again I do not support this group but for someone who hasn't personally met him to openly call him arrogant is arrogance in it's own!

Again I do not support his decision but I do think it is driven for another reason than he just wants to ban guns. Considering he owns guns, and has been out in the field before! Might actually be a good thing if you think about it. Giving his view from a state that actually incorporates guns and hunting into it's life style. But he just COULDN'T be doing it for THAT REASON could he....Nope not in your guys eyes....HE WANTS OUR GUNS!

Meet the guy first then your opinion will mean something to me!

:eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I can see you didn't get my joke about Africaans though.


I guess your still going to have to point it out to me. Since I see jokes as something of humor and didn't see humor I don't get the joke.



> If you new any of the locals you would understand what I am trying to say.


If I knew any of which locals, Fargo, or Africa? 



> Meet the guy first then your opinion will mean something to me!


That's awfully short sighted. Often if you read one author you get to know them. Sometimes if the author wrote of philosophical things you get to know them faster. One can form opinions of people who lived and died long before we were on this earth. With today's communications we need not realy on only a man's words, but the nuances of his body language accompany it on television. The mayor may not know us, but we do truly know much about him.



> Might actually be a good thing if you think about it.


I have thought about it. I have thought about it over the past year, and often within that year. How much have you educated yourself on MAIG? You and they mayor may think there is a good reason for him to belong to this organization, but doing something stupid for a good reasons still makes it stupid. It's like the old cliche "the path to hell is paved with good intentions".


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

I stayed out of this, mainly because I realize to most people who will vote for Denny it is a non issue. However, that aside, it is a legitimate question of which he needs to address or he can expect a crap storm to continue around it. Mazihari is not someone who will let this go. He will continue to ride the mayor until it becomes more than it is.

The mayor can easily end this by properly addressing the issues surrounding the organization. With Mark being on the Hietkamp show today as an attempt by Joel to jab at the Forum, and the Forum running its editorial, it is now a main stream subject.

Denny is not arrogant, but is impatient, one only has to sit in on a city council meeting to understand that! I think that at times gets misconstrued!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Denny is not arrogant, but is impatient, one only has to sit in on a city council meeting to understand that! I think that at times gets misconstrued!


Now that I can buy, but having a meal with the guy was a bit of a stretch. I once had a nice hour long visit with former governor Shaiffer in the airport in Minneapolis. I don't think I know Shaiffer. Much different venues. Casual conversation doesn't reveal much.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> I guess your still going to have to point it out to me. Since I see jokes as something of humor and didn't see humor I don't get the joke.


You are probably one that would mix up their accent with Kiwi or a Brit as well..... :lol: 
You must not have fully read the article I posted. In there especially at the end "Negative Impact" part. Go back and read it and tell me what REALLY didn't make sense! Something that wouldn't happen in United States of America. Then maybe you will see the (some what) humor of all of it!



> If I knew any of which locals, Fargo, or Africa?


 I think you knew what I was getting at, but just in case you don't I was talking about the S. Afrcans. I have many freinds (even an x-girlfriend) from S. Africa (espcially Capetown). Hell I met 2 young guys this summer that are here to work on a local honey farm. Great guys and HARD workers! No Einstreins though!****enter more humor****



> Often if you read one author you get to know them.


Wow...I guess if you believe everything you read you will know them? 
I just don't live like that. Face vaulue means more to me than what I get off of the media or reading a book...


> and by watching the news


 and I sure as hell don't base all of my opinion off of what the media portrays people to be in time of crisis!



> Now that I can buy, but having a meal with the guy was a bit of a stretch.


 A stretch for you maybe but not me! So my testimony means nothing but others that have had casual conversation does? Hmmm.... :roll:



> I once had a nice hour long visit with former governor *Schafer* in the airport in Minneapolis


 Hardly the camparison. That was only one of a few meeting with him. Working at a Arch firm in Fargo we deal with the city quit a bit! Just chose not to talk about buisness, just personal experiences! Atleast spell his name right if you are going to use him as an example!



> How much have you educated yourself on MAIG?


 Enough to know that I may want Denny in that group! If he joined it for solid reasons instead of jumping blindly! I can see how it might be a good thing! You just see how it is a bad thing and can't get past it!

My inital point is if you haven't met him don't label him. Otherwise you are basing all you opinion off of what you see on TV, and that's what you are doing!

The real question is...Do you think Denny wants your guns?

Now we are back on topic.... :lol:


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

I don't know the mayor, but do know about MAIG. He may be a great guy and was duped into joining the MAIG group. He should realize this was a mistake and cut his membership and admit his mistake. What if it was discovered he was a KKK member, and people who knew him said that he wasn't a racist and that maybe it's good thing and that he was trying to change the organzation? 
What would you think of that? You would have about the same chance of changing the grand wizard of the KKK's ideas as you would changing Bloombergs ideas. So what exactly is good about Denny being a member of this group?

Guilt by association, Denny may not want our guns, but he is a supporting member of a group that does and will break laws to get them.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Atleast spell his name right if you are going to use him as an example!


Oh brother. :eyeroll:

You mean like:


> If you new any of the locals you would understand what I am trying to say.


 

Complaints about spelling and such is simply quibbling, but if your going to bring it up at least know (no?) what your talking about. 

People at a setting like a meal are always amiable. Not so in meetings etc. I found Ron's example addressed the question better that's all.

I will go back and read the link you posted. I must admit I didn't do that.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

OK, I read it, but I guess I am slow today. I noticed that now you have to license a muzzle loader in South Africa.



> 98% of gun crime is performed with illegal (unlicensed) weapons


None in the photo are what we would consider illegal weapons. There were no AK47 as the news reported. I would guess if MAIG has their way many of our guns will be illegal also.

In the past a few (very few) on here have said that we don't have to worry because we have the second amendment. Keep in mind that last time we won in the Supreme Court by one vote. Obama has only to appoint one conservative with one liberal judge and the vote is reversed. Also, look at the czars he is appointing. Radicals to the point of believing your dog should be able to sue you. In dangerous times like this any governor in North Dakota should not be lending support to organizations like MAIG.

If the guy is a personal friend that's ok, but I doubt you would be as forgiving with someone you didn't know.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> OK, I read it, but I guess I am slow today. I noticed that now you have to license a muzzle loader in South Africa


It's ok that you missed the biggest part! Here I will show you...


> The South African Ministry of Safety and Security as well as the SA police service (CFR spokesperson, S/Sup't Andrew lesch) publicly admitted in a SASA (SA Security Association) breakfast seminar in 2003 that neither departments had performed any research whatsoever regarding the negative socio-economic implications of the Act.


Sorry but that just wouldn't happen here!

Ok...go back read my post about Africaan see if you find the humor. Sorry I had to point it out, but they are not the brightest of people!

So you comparing the United States of America to S. Africa was a bad comparison! IMHO!!! That's it really!



> Complaints about spelling and such is simply quibbling, but if your going to bring it up at least know (no?) what your talking about.


If your gonna use someone as an example atleast be respectful enough to spell our ex-Gov. name right. Using a different word that mean the same is a honest mistake.

The guy is no personal friend! I am just trying to tell you he is not arrogant like you think he is (from what you have seen on TV)! That's where all this started! Then you referenced S. Africa which I thought was a BAD comparison.



> If the guy is a personal friend that's ok, but I doubt you would be as forgiving with someone you didn't know.


 If that what you *THINK *! I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions! Even if they are wrong!

Now to bring it back on topic again...Do you think Denny wants your guns?


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> So what exactly is good about Denny being a member of this group?


Easy question. When it comes down the time to put a list togethor of all guns deemed illegal (which could happen), wouldn't it be nice to have a familiar face overseeing the list. Do you think Denny would accept hunting guns that could be on the list, or do you think he will turn his back at the people of Fargo?! We need people like him to get involved with these organization. People who are pro-gun. Instead of all of them being Natzi's, then we have a voice

Naaaa....that just doesn't make sense. :roll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Sorry but that just wouldn't happen here!


The anti gun crowd loves people who think like that.



> Naaaa....that just doesn't make sense.


Now your talking.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> > Sorry but that just wouldn't happen here!
> 
> 
> The anti gun crowd loves people who think like that.


You have no faith in the people of the United States of America...

Your right the sky is falling...... :eyeroll:



> Quote:
> Naaaa....that just doesn't make sense.
> 
> Now your talking.


Some how I KNEW you wouldn't understand! :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> You have no faith in the people of the United States of America...


Sure, I have faith that they will not take it serious until it's to late. What do you think will happen when Obama appoints another liberal judge to the Supreme Court and another anti gun organization challenges the second amendment?


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> > You have no faith in the people of the United States of America...
> 
> 
> Sure, I have faith that they will not take it serious until it's to late. What do you think will happen when Obama appoints another liberal judge to the Supreme Court and another anti gun organization challenges the second amendment?


Do you think people will fight for their guns? Will you? I will...

Where's the faith I still don't see it!


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Would you like this group to be conformed of all anti's who are Nazi's or would you like to have a few pro's to sit in to make it more fair and balanced?!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Do you think people will fight for their guns? Will you? I will...


It sure doesn't appear you will fight for your guns. Easy to say. Right now we have a mayor in North Dakota that belongs the MAIG and you let it ride. Not only do you excuse him, you make excuses for him.

By the time the average gun owner knows what is going on fighting will be to late. Your proving that with statements that it can't happen here. Answer the question about another lib appointed to the supreme court. Do you belong to the NRA. Do you belong to Gun Owners of America. Give me something to go on to show me you will put up some resistance.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> It sure doesn't appear you will fight for your guns. Easy to say


....and easy to be wrong. In which you are! You know what really easy to say, that statement is laughable! :lol: :lol: Because you are dead WRONG! Please don't speak "AS IF" you know me! It's insulting IMHO! I am one guy you can't read about and say you know me!



> Right now we have a mayor in North Dakota that belongs the MAIG and you let it ride. Not only do you excuse him, you make excuses for him.


 Wrong again....I am giving hima chance to tell us all why he did join the group. Which I am sure will happen after the interview Joel Heitkamp had with Mark Mizzrahi (who I have hunted with)! Sorry but I amnot going to hang someone until they get to tell his side of it as well. Right now you only see what the media is giving us!



> By the time the average gun owner knows what is going on fighting will be to late.


 Again no faith in the American people! Don't tell me you have any faith at all because all you are saying is that the average person is an idiot or slow! Still no faith!!!



> Your proving that with statements that it can't happen here.


 Umm no I am not! Are you reading my posts. I am telling why it won't happen here. Do you really think the people of Untied States of America would make a bill where the negative outcome makes thing worse! Please....Please don't insult the people of USA, because that all you are doing!

Answer the question...Do you think Denny wants your guns? Do you want an elitists group to be full of all Anti's? Do you think he is an Anti?
Do you belong to NRA? Do you belong to Gun Owners of America?

To answer your question...Yes I am member of the NRA and so is my GF! Sad that I have to prove I am NRA memeber on a hunting fishing website! :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Sad that I have to prove I am NRA memeber on a hunting fishing website!


Yes it is. I guess maybe it's because you say things the anti gun people like. For example: it can't happen here. One more supreme court judge. A bill that helps stop "illegal guns" in Mexico, but hurts us too. Currently the Obama administration is using back door strategies like this. It could also be because you are sticking your neck out for a MAIG member.

You know what Maverick? I hope your right.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

I have been reading this thread for a while now. What I have seen and read thru the media I will have to agree with you plainsmen.
And Mav you can't have been serious when you said Denny could of saved GF in 97. The 54 foot flood would of been a 57 foot flood if it could of been contained. As I understand Denny's first choice to protect FM is a deversion around Moorehead. If that is true he is not only arrogant but an idiot. That option will never fly from a practical and a political standpoint.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> Yes it is.


No, the sad part is your lack of confidence in the American People! This isue has been coming around for years! Do you still have your guns? You better go look into your gun case (assuming you have one). Yep still there!



> I guess maybe it's because you say things the anti gun people like. For example: it can't happen here.


Do you think I am anti guns? Sorry if you are reading my words wrong! 
What is wrong with having a PRO in this organization?
Do you want this organization to be nothing but Anti's so they can push thier aganda around?



> And Mav you can't have been serious when you said Denny could of saved GF in 97. The 54 foot flood would of been a 57 foot flood if it could of been contained.


 There was a bit of humor in it! He did warn the Mayor at the time to prepare for something unseen before. I believe his words were softly listened to! No I don't personally think he could have saved the city.



> If that is true he is not only arrogant but an idiot. That option will never fly from a practical and a political standpoint.


Just cause the guy is coming up with options he is an arrogant idiot? Hmmm..... :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Do you think I am anti guns? Sorry if you are reading my words wrong!


Not at all. I think that because you don't take it serious you are an enabler. Not just you, but anyone who doesn't take it serious. Some are so partisan they will not admit they take it serious. Some try to talk others into not taking it serious. That's where you fit.



> Do you want this organization to be nothing but Anti's so they can push thier aganda around?


Do you think Walaker can change their agenda? Do you think we should all run out and join PETA. Maybe if 1000 of us hunters joined we could change them right? Even if Walaker had the best of intentions one man against all the others can do little. I admire your loyalty to someone you evidently have personal connections to.



> And Mav you can't have been serious when you said Denny could of saved GF in 97. The 54 foot flood would of been a 57 foot flood if it could of been contained.





> There was a bit of humor in it!


Maverick it's perhaps not good for you and I to debate because I clearly do not understand you. I did not pick up on any humor when you mentioned Denny saving Grand Forks. :huh:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

> No, the sad part is your lack of confidence in the American People! This isue has been coming around for years! Do you still have your guns? You better go look into your gun case (assuming you have one). Yep still there!


I hope you are attempting humor again. With all the anti-gun people in power now, the anti-gun media, and now our mayor do you actually feel that nothing will change? When I look in my gun case I see a semi-automatic. If almost any member of MAIG or the Obama Administration had their way I would not have that semi-auto next year.



> What is wrong with having a PRO in this organization?


What is wrong is this organization. If anything a popular mayor from a very progun state and area gives this organization more credibility. THE LAST THING IT NEEDS.

If you think the nra and the media does not accurately portray this story look up the members and their stances. It is not a pretty picture.[/quote]


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

With no answering of legimate questions I am done.



> I *think* that because you don't take it serious you are an enabler.


 Sorry Bud, no enabler here! Call it what you want but it still not the TRUTH! Maybe it's your philosophical reasoning but still not the TRUTH! Who is not taking things serious! I am waiting to hear what the man has to say about the ordeal! Instead of haning him and labeling him an anti with out hearing his reasoning! You are choosing to hang him without hearing his reasoning!

I am done with this one until you show me you have faith in the American People as I can see you have lumped me with


> average gun owner


! You have no faith and called the average gun owner Idiots! Your one track mind is what scares me. If we have someone on our side why wouldn't you want him in there? You inability to see this is what scares me? It is more of an extremest mantality than anyting!



> Do you think Walaker can change their agenda?


 Maybe...maybe not but we will never know if he is not in this organization will we! He could be just what the group needs! Ever thought of that?

Have a good night fellas....I am out till morning!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I am done with this one until you show me you have faith in the American People


I lost a lot of faith in the American people when they voted Obama into office. I have faith, but not blind faith. Do something not real smart, and I don't have faith that next time the same person will do something brilliant. It's not pessimism it's realism.



> Sorry Bud, no enabler here!


When you say it can't happen here you do enable the anti gun. Since you don't believe it can happen it then follows that you will deny it as it happens. That is enabling.



> I am done with this one until you show me you have faith in the American People


As I said I don't have blind faith. The American people are going to have to show me they are a lot sharper than they were in November. They don't see the socialist take over of the auto industry and health care as a danger. Many don't believe they can take our guns, but look at the czars who wield some impressive power. One more Supreme Court judge Maverick, one more Supreme Court judge. What do you think can happen then?



> You have no faith and called the average gun owner Idiots!


I wouldn't call anyone on Nodakoutdoors and idiot. I may call some of our politicians idiots. Actually I don't think many are idiots, I think they hate America as it is now.

Speaking about Walaker:


> He could be just what the group needs! Ever thought of that?


OK, now I picked up on the humor.  Actually I did think about it, but quickly dismissed it as a pipe dream.

I picked up on the lunch you had was at your aunt and uncles house. Evidently you wanted us to know that connection, but because of that connection you will not find yourself in agreement with many gun owners. As I mentioned I admire your sense of loyalty, but I look at it different. I am loyal to the constitution long before a distant acquaintance.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Mav, you are as blind as a bat!

The folks in England had faith, and said "it will never happen here", I know, I have spoken with some of them!! YOU ARE allowing the same thing to take place here with your position on things.

Blind(read stupid) faith leads us down a bad road. Our country has been on a down turn for a long time, and we won't see much change in the near future either.

You say have faith in the american people? You have got to be kidding!!! The "average" american is getting fatter, more lazy, and has less common sense by the generation. It is views like yours that make me lose faith in the american people. It seems these days the average american isn't very trust worthy, and those who are trust worthy are in short supply.

So keep your head in the sand and your eyes shut tightly.......BUT KEEP THE FAITH!!!! :eyeroll:


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> > You have no faith in the people of the United States of America...
> 
> 
> Sure, I have faith that they will not take it serious until it's to late. What do you think will happen when Obama appoints another liberal judge to the Supreme Court and another anti gun organization challenges the second amendment?


 Come on now,a few months ago you said we would not have ammo for deer season. Obama will not even come close to gun control, he cant even get healthcare. if he starts talking gun control there will be blood. Just think about how ****** off the American is these days.

Anything more will reslult in bloodshed, we are hanging by a thread right now. The blacks will soon begin to riot, trust me.When they do the brown stuff will hit the fan and who knows what will happen after that. Go buy that ammo that you said would not be on the shelf right now. I dont mean to say you were wrong,just a few months early. The days when you cant buy ammo is coming and soon i believe.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Anything more will reslult in bloodshed, we are hanging by a thread right now.


I doubt that. I think the American people have become to fat and lazy and have no guts for fighting.

I do think your right about it taking more time for Obama to push gun control. We may be saved for some time by the fight he is having over health care. That affects more people than our second amendment rights. Our rights could disappear without a whimper.

Remember that treaty he wanted with Mexico which would have included shutting down guns shows because they claimed so many illegal guns in Mexico were coming from the United States? That's the backdoor thing we have to watch for. He will try make it look reasonable to guys who think it's reasonable to belong to MAIG.

Did you see this quote:


> Mayors against ILLEGAL GUNS--he is a good man-nuff said


?
When NBC, CBS, ABC, etc start calling a Remington 1100 illegal these guys will think it's ok to outlaw them. MAIG will only cause more problems in the future. They think cities should be able to sue gun manufacturers. They seen what happened with the tobacco companies and they drool over free money by suing someone. Firearms manufacturers are at the top of their list. When their citizens begin to revolt over their tax dollars being squandered they look to sue someone for money. Where did all the tobacco money go? It was for health care right?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

MAIG is no friend of the gun owner, illegal or legal. 'nuff said.

The mayor of a ND town belonging to such group is no different in my mind that a ND mayor belonging to PETA.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> When NBC, CBS, ABC, etc start calling a Remington 1100 illegal these guys will think it's ok to outlaw them.


Don't you think people like Denny would voice up and say....wait a minute that's a gun I have in my gun cabinet! 
We NEED gun toting Mayors in this group to make it FAIR AND BALANCED! So agenda's don't get past without legimate oversight! Or as what happened in S. Africa where they did no research and blindly passed a law that had research proving a negative outcome!
If we don't have PRO's In these organizations IT WILL be onesided and progress on the Anti's part will be faster and swifter. Put some people in there for some resistents (common sense) and we have a voice. Chose to do nothing and we lose! They will not take our guns! They will


> They just want to make guns, hunting, and sport shooting so expensive that only they can afford it.


 which is a different subject than what we are talking about now!


> Mav, you are as blind as a bat!


Sorry but you are the one with the cob webs in your eyes! Your caveman way of thinking is what is going to get all our guns locked up?

Why is it so hard for you people to realize we need gun totting Mayors in this group? So when it comes time to make a list of illegeal guns they don't go the way of S. Africa! I bet they didn't have ANY pro guns support in the organizations that put the list of what they considered Illegal guns togethor!



> What is wrong is this organization.


 I agree 100% but the fact is that this organization is not just going to go away! So what else is a better option. Putting PRO's in the organization is great way to fight their progess! I can't believe you guys can't grasp this concept! That's what scares me the most! If we don't have PRO's in this org. we have no chance and no voice!
Your caveman thinking is what is hurting us! The PRO are the guys that can tell the difference between an hunting gun and fully automatic! To anti's all guns are bad! It just scares me that you guys can't see this!



> I think the American people have become to fat and lazy and have no guts for fighting.


Is that faith in the American People again? oh wait...blind faith...:eyeroll:

I am sorry you feel that way but I just don't view the USA as negatively as you!

We need to learn from their mistakes! Not repeat what they did!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Don't you think people like Denny would voice up and say....wait a minute that's a gun I have in my gun cabinet!


He may say wait a minute that's a gun I have in my cabinet, but I doubt he will do anything. I think Denny has his eye on bigger things and wants to fit in. He will give up his gun first.



> Your caveman thinking is what is hurting us!


 I am sorry you think that way. I would also guess you see yourself as the reasonable intellectual. The stand your taking can also be seen as naive. If there was even 30 percent of the mayors in that group who were more conservative, understood and respected the constitution, had half an idea what hunting does to control populations and contribute to the economy then I would say it's worth belonging to. However, I don't think ten percent would fill those requirements. I don't think Walaker would. Oh, and they would have to understand that every American out here on the prairie or in the ghetto has a right to own a firearm for self protection.



> We need to learn from their mistakes! Not repeat what they did!


History says we keep repeating mistakes. If we learned from them Obama would never have been elected. As far as Walaker if I want someone to run a flood disaster fight he would be above average. If I want someone to protect my second amendment I would not want him. Since he decided it was ok to join MAIG I would not want him for anything. There are other qualified people who can do as good or better job and not back stab gun owners. There are many people out there with a lot more abilities than we give credit for. We don't need to jeopardize our constitutional rights to find qualified individuals.

If Walaker wants to help he doesn't have to join MAIG, he can join the NRA now and speak out. He can call our congressmen and give a pro firearms opinion. The path he chose is the wrong one no matter what excuse he gives in the future.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> He will give up his gun first.


I love the fact that you have never met the guy but you can answer for him! Your statement has no meaning behind it! It is nothing more than speculative thinking! uke:



> I would also guess you see yourself as the reasonable intellectual.


 Go look in the mirror and say that same sentence! I love your philosophical BS! Personal attacks are not allowed on this website! I thought you would have known that by now!



> The stand your taking can also be seen as naive.


and your stance is the poster board for the word naive!



> If there was even 30 percent of the mayors in that group who were more conservative, understood and respected the constitution, had half an idea what hunting does to control populations and contribute to the economy then I would say it's worth belonging to.


Interject more gun totting mayors and we are solving your problem! The group would be more FAIR and BALANCED! I am stumped why you can't undertand common sense! MUst be your version of reasonable intellect? :eyeroll: 


> History says we keep repeating mistakes.


And I believe the def. of insanity is to do the same thing but expect a different out come!

It is just your own insanity to think that traveling down the same road with will produce different out comes!

We are just going to agree to disagree on this one! :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> And I believe the def. of insanity is to do the same thing but expect a different out come!
> 
> It is just your own insanity to think that traveling down the same road with will produce different out comes!


I have noticed over the past 50 years that any time we give an inch to the liberals they take much more. Negotiations for as long as I can remember have resulted in an erosion of our rights and our freedom. The only time success has been realized is when we engage them head on. 
The same can be said for negotiations with other nations. We negotiated our way into nearly every war we have been in. Watch the future as Iran dumps in Obama's face and he keeps grinning. 
I base my view on losses and gains I have watched since 1960, not some pie in the sky wishful thinking.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> I base my view on losses and gains I have watched since 1960, not some pie in the sky wishful thinking.


Trust me....I can tell your views are based off the 1960's! Again...your own insanity!

Sorry I am postive thinker, and I do feel for you! I can tell you are scared of the average american. With your view of them as


> I think the American people have become to fat and lazy and have no guts for fighting.


I would be scared too! I just don't see us as that!
Like I said before we are just going to agree to disagree!!! :lol:


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

Maverick, You keep saying Denny will clear the air when he makes a statement. The problem is he refuses to do so. Even with the urging of his constituents. He has had ample opportunity to do so but has chosen not to. This screams either arrogance or what he really feels could hurt his poltical future. Otherwise why not just have a new conference or a news release stating his relationship with MAIG? If he feels that MAIG fits into his life so be it stand up and let people know. If he is there to keep MAIG on the straight and narrow then say so. It is another example of an elected official refusing to listen to their constituents and thinking they know whats better for them... you know like a parent to children.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> You keep saying Denny will clear the air when he makes a statement


That's exactly what will happen won't it! We will know his true intent instead of spreading speculative thinking!

I am just not guy who hangs first then asks questions. I ask questions then hang! Just the way our legal system works!



> or what he really feels could hurt his poltical future.


Which is what I am expecting!

But for some to think that interjecting PRO's into this organization will only hurt us as a whole needs to get their head out of their ***** or stay in the 60's! We need Pro's in this group otherwise they will do as they please!

nufffsaid......


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## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

Plainsman I typed what you quoted about Mayors against ILLEGAL GUNS to show you what the group lettering stood for., the part about the mayor being a good man has everything to do with what he has done for the city of Fargo. I don,t think that by joining maig makes him a good man. That is a personal decision for him, And I hope if it is not within his beliefs he will opt out. I hope i have clarified that for you now. I personally would not want to join a group like that but it doesnt take away from the hard work he has done. When the small child died in the car accident and walaker stepped forward saying that the city was a part of the cause because of the condition the street was in was impressive. WOW who else would do that, the man is a unique guy, one you won't find in politics in too many places. You might get a lot further than this forum by not attacking someones character and making so many foolish statements about him as a person. I am against ILLEGAL guns, but I hope to have someone with some common sense and someone who believes in our rights making the decision on what should be considered illegal.


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

Wow, I thought I was stubborn! If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, and has a tail like a rat, it's a rat, unless you think positive enough and close your eyes and mind! 
Sioux Falls, SD mayor Dave Munson was a member of MAIG if my memory is correct, but I don't see his name listed there today. He must have decided to come to his senses as I remember him catching some heat over this issue. Is it odd the media didn't report on his withdrawal from this lawless gun control group?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plainsman I typed what you quoted about Mayors against ILLEGAL GUNS to show you what the group lettering stood for., the part about the mayor being a good man has everything to do with what he has done for the city of Fargo. I don,t think that by joining maig makes him a good man.


Thank you for clarifying that. I will not disagree on that position.



> When the small child died in the car accident and walaker stepped forward saying that the city was a part of the cause because of the condition the street was in was impressive.


Yes, I'm very impressed myself.



> I am just not guy who hangs first then asks questions. I ask questions then hang! Just the way our legal system works!


This isn't a legal system operation here, it's public opinion. I don't know Walaker, but his joining the MAIG is not good. I will not risk the second amendment on his word. Since I don't know him his word has little value to me. I automatically will give people the benefit of the doubt, but support of MAIG tips the scale for me. There is no excuse for belonging to this group. If he comes out and states a strategy word for word paralleling your ideas I am sorry, but I will not take his word for it. When it comes to politicians actions always speak louder than words.



> I am against ILLEGAL guns, but I hope to have someone with some common sense and someone who believes in our rights making the decision on what should be considered illegal.


Have you ever talked to anyone who wants expanded gun control and had them say anything other than "it's common sense gun control"? The scary thing is one man's common sense is not another man's commons sense. I don't think Walakers common sense and mine have much chance of agreement. If he wants to impress gun owners stand up and state your principles towards the second amendment. Then lets see some action. Words are not enough.


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

fesnthunner said:


> Plainsman I typed what you quoted about Mayors against ILLEGAL GUNS to show you what the group lettering stood for., the part about the mayor being a good man has everything to do with what he has done for the city of Fargo. I don,t think that by joining maig makes him a good man. That is a personal decision for him, And I hope if it is not within his beliefs he will opt out. I hope i have clarified that for you now. I personally would not want to join a group like that but it doesnt take away from the hard work he has done. When the small child died in the car accident and walaker stepped forward saying that the city was a part of the cause because of the condition the street was in was impressive. WOW who else would do that, the man is a unique guy, one you won't find in politics in too many places. You might get a lot further than this forum by not attacking someones character and making so many foolish statements about him as a person. I am against ILLEGAL guns, but I hope to have someone with some common sense and someone who believes in our rights making the decision on what should be considered illegal.


Taking MAIG's name literally is like taking PETA's name literally, we're all against illegal guns and for the ethical treatment of animals. MAIG is about way more than just illegal guns, they want to eventually make all guns illegal and for sure all semi-automatics. Like most gun control groups, they'll start with the semi autos and progress from there. Take the blinders off and face reality.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> But for some to think that interjecting PRO's into this organization will only hurt us as a whole needs to get their head out of their a$$es or stay in the 60's!


Oh, I forgot to mention Maverick, don't take experience to lightly. History is often not worth the paper it is written on.
If your going to hire someone that can work on their own do you want the kid that shows up with a diploma, or the guy that shows up with a diploma and 20 years experience. That's a no brainer. No experience doesn't mean a person isn't good, and likewise years of experience doesn't mean a man isn't educated. After all, it wasn't an high school kid that taught you what you know was it? Not many 14 year old professors out there.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> > But for some to think that interjecting PRO's into this organization will only hurt us as a whole needs to get their head out of their a$$es or stay in the 60's!
> 
> 
> Oh, I forgot to mention Maverick, don't take experience to lightly. History is often not worth the paper it is written on.
> If your going to hire someone that can work on their own do you want the kid that shows up with a diploma, or the guy that shows up with a diploma and 20 years experience. That's a no brainer. No experience doesn't mean a person isn't good, and likewise years of experience doesn't mean a man isn't educated. After all, it wasn't an high school kid that taught you what you know was it? Not many 14 year old professors out there.


Thanks for your resume! I will keep it on the top of the pile when we start hiring next! :lol:

...and it all really just depends on what job we have an opening for! 20 years experience might be too much experience, and could be out dated? Never know though....everyones different! That's why I judge people off of face value, not media! :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Thanks for your resume! I will keep it on the top of the pile when we start hiring next!


 :rollin: Now that's humor I get. :beer:

I'm not cheap.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

:beer: .......and yes I am a stubborn guy.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Maverick said:


> :beer: .......and yes I am a stubborn guy.


I kind of noticed that. 

Not me though. :rollin:


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## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

Why is it that you allude to PETA (I also dislike that group to the core) only as a group. What about the thousands of groups out there that do what they set out to do, and is stated in their name. SADD, MADD, these groups are against drunk driving, not driving. Against illegal guns, but maybe not guns. True Bloomberg is not a guy I would want to be partnered with, but walaker is making a personal choice and you will have th opportunity to vote against him if that is a significant issue for you. I myself think we should have almost no guntrol, we should do a better job keeping track of criminals and keeping weapons out of their hands, and worry less about what honest, law abiding citizens have for guns. We all disagree at least a little about how to accomplish this. I hope you give decent people an opportunity to voice opinions and realize that in this whole world of people your opinion most likely is not the most correct. And just so you know, if they try and take your arms, I will be fighting by your side.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I hope you give decent people an opportunity to voice opinions


Heck I'm willing to give even indecent people a chance to voide their opinion.



> realize that in this whole world of people your opinion most likely is not the most correct.


  Say it aint so. 



> And just so you know, if they try and take your arms, I will be fighting by your side.


Good man, but lets hope it doesn't come to that. Napolitano (spelling) already tried to make us terrorist. Us meaning patriots, gun owners, and Christians. I think Obama would not think twice about turning the military on us. The only question is would our own men trip the trigger on us?

I guess that's why I don't want people joining bad groups. If your numbers are to small to change them don't join because the public perceived that as support. Many of us here do.


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## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

I've really enjoyed reading this topic, alot of good points on both sides. I have a lot of respect for Walaker that stems mostly from his leading the flood fight, a very calming influence during those trying times. The real problem I have with him joining this group is that he did it representing Fargo as our mayor which is against what most of us stand for. Yes its supposed to be for illegal guns but lets be real, its a start to severly limit ANY gun ownership. If he wants to join a group like that on his own its fine with me, but as my mayor, who is supposed to represent us and our views, its just plain wrong.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

fesnthunner said:


> Why is it that you allude to PETA (I also dislike that group to the core) only as a group. What about the thousands of groups out there that do what they set out to do, and is stated in their name. SADD, MADD, these groups are against drunk driving, not driving. Against illegal guns, but maybe not guns. True Bloomberg is not a guy I would want to be partnered with, but walaker is making a personal choice and you will have th opportunity to vote against him if that is a significant issue for you. I myself think we should have almost no guntrol, we should do a better job keeping track of criminals and keeping weapons out of their hands, and worry less about what honest, law abiding citizens have for guns. We all disagree at least a little about how to accomplish this. I hope you give decent people an opportunity to voice opinions and realize that in this whole world of people your opinion most likely is not the most correct. And just so you know, if they try and take your arms, I will be fighting by your side.


I don't think the issue is Walaker having an opinion. At least its not for me.

The issue, for me, is having a supposed gun owning mayor belonging to a group that is a flat out anti-gun group.
The other issue, for me again, is having an elected official that seemingly thinks he doesn't need to respond to constituents questions. I was one of the "30 or so emails", my email wasn't threatening, I wasn't venting, I just wanted to know his official stance on guns, he felt he was above answering a simple question. That is the issue I have with him.

That and I just don't think its very bright of a gun owner belonging to that group. Right up there with a beef rancher belonging to PETA.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Those of you who think having a semi-pro gun mayor in a group like MAIG better be ready!! When your head is in the sand your a$$ is in the perfect position to be kicked! Guess what....... you will never see it coming!

I have to laugh at "caveman thinking"!!! Your way is HOPING, no thinking, no reasoning, and after a while......NO GUNS!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

wurgs you said it best, it is wrong because he is acting as the mayor and not as an individual.



> We NEED gun toting Mayors in this group to make it FAIR AND BALANCED!


Novel idea, the problem is anytime someone tries to inject some sanity into one of these insane groups they are pushed to the side. I don't think you could find one time that any moderate has had any success in an insane group. A good example of this is the Bayh group in DC, the super libs shoved them out and now they are left out on their own.



> Your caveman thinking is what is hurting us!


Really, I have been reading up on this group for about a year now and at first they seemed like a good group, until you look into the co-founders and prominent members. Even ABC calls some of the anti-gun. If ABC calls someone anti-gun, they are definetely anti-gun. The only thing hurting "us" is people who blindly support politicians and issues without looking at them for themselves. It has become obvious that you have not.



> Quote:
> They just want to make guns, hunting, and sport shooting so expensive that only they can afford it.
> which is a different subject than what we are talking about now!


Once again you clearly have no idea about this group. Jacking the price of guns and ammo is another backdoor method of gun control being used by the anti's. This is exactly the subject we are talking about. Boston Mayor and MAIG co-founder Thomas Menino has a hankering for suing gun manufacturers, including smith and wesson. He cited defective product and public nuisance for filing the lawsuit. Once again blaming the gun not the criminal. Boston and Menino abandoned the suit. Tell me Maverick what happens when a company incurs higher costs? Do the prices of their products go up or down? 

We already discussed Bloomberg's little run in with the ATF over phony gun transactions, interesting thing about this is after Bloomberg's shady little scheme the State of Virginia passed laws banning Bloomberg's tactics.



> But for some to think that interjecting PRO's into this organization will only hurt us as a whole needs to get their head out of their a$$es or stay in the 60's! We need Pro's in this group otherwise they will do as they please!
> 
> nufffsaid......


It would seem to me that the person with the head up their a$$ would be the person who has no clue what he is talking about. As far as the 60's thinking goes, I think you and I are about the same age. We were burned by Obama when he said he wasn't going to after guns, he didn't, he just appointed a bunch of people to do that for him. MAIG has more powerful members, more media support, and more money than any other anti-gun group the US has ever seen. Take them lightly or give your mayor a free pass on joining them, no matter how good he has been, is the worst thing we can do. I have read sites ranging from the NRA to ABC and there is no doubt that illegal guns are not the only thing on their agenda.



> Sorry I am postive thinker


I hope you are right and the rest of us are all wrong. But the facts and history are going the other direction.

I shot trap the other night with some guys from Denmark. We had a thrower set up in my buddies yard. There was probably about 12 guns and 2,000 rounds on the table. The Danes told us to enjoy what we have and protect it because they would do anything to have it the way we do.


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

> Quote:
> You keep saying Denny will clear the air when he makes a statement
> 
> That's exactly what will happen won't it! We will know his true intent instead of spreading speculative thinking!


When will it exactly happen Mav? He has had plenty of time to address this and has chosen not to. That is my point. He has decided that he doesn't have to answer his critics. In a non-elected job that may be the case but when people elect you to represent them, you are to answer to them. Too many politicians forget who they work for.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Step outside the box TK33....

Don't forget I am on yourside looking for different results that has shown to happen through history. The thing is we are on the same path as all of these countries! Do we need to take another approach? You tell me since you know it all!

Stay the course and we still lose our guns!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Maverick said:


> Step outside the box TK33....
> 
> Don't forget I am on yourside looking for different results that has shown to happen through history. The thing is we are on the same path as all of these countries! Do we need to take another approach? You tell me since you know it all!


I have no way of knowing this Maverick, but something tells me they took the path your advocating. If you read some of the stories these guys say they started to fight back, but were to late. They had tried the reasonable approach, but didn't start the confrontational approach until it was nearly over. This is what some articles written by people from Australia and England say anyway.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Would you agree or disagree that we are on the same path?
Some of my reading have brought me right to where we are right now! With great divide and no balance, with gun owners being the minority!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Maverick said:


> Would you agree or disagree that we are on the same path?
> Some of my reading have brought me right to where we are right now! With great divide and no balance, with gun owners being the minority!


Yes, I do agree we are on the same path. I want to break away from that path where we try to reason with them and fight back. After our guns are gone it's to late. We see that in other countries. Simply because your a reasonable man Maverick you expect others to be reasonable. Call it faith, call it reality, but that's a path that doesn't work with radicals. 
When we begin to fight they always try to sooth the opposition with words like "lets all be reasonable". That line is simply a trap. A trap that calms us while the poison works.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

So you are in agreeance that we need to do thing differently! But alas your thinking is still the same? See what I mean! My reference about "Caveman way of thinking" was not to insult but to show that we are looking at it the way S.Africa, England (hell and country you want to put there) DID! Look where it got them!

The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him a friend!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Maverick said:


> So you are in agreeance that we need to do thing differently! But alas your thinking is still the same? See what I mean! My reference about "Caveman way of thinking" was not to insult but to show that we are looking at it the way S.Africa, England (hell and country you want to put there) DID! Look where it got them!
> 
> The best way to destroy an enemy is to make him a friend!!


Maverick they went about it the way you are promoting. What I want to do is different.



> Yes, I do agree we are on the same path. I want to break away from that path


The path I was speaking of is the path you are on.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Mav,

Read my tag line by Harry Truman

I do NOT have faith that we will change the mind of any anti.

Sorry..................... :sniper:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> I do NOT have faith that we will change the mind of any anti./quote]
> 
> 100% true statement!!! Even a caveman can figure that out!!!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Maverick said:


> Step outside the box TK33....
> 
> Don't forget I am on yourside looking for different results that has shown to happen through history. The thing is we are on the same path as all of these countries! Do we need to take another approach? You tell me since you know it all!
> 
> Stay the course and we still lose our guns!


I don't know it all. I do know some of what has failed in the past here and in other places. I work with a fair amount of people from other countries, especially Europe and Australia. I also have done my homework on MAIG.

I worked with a guy from Australia just a few months ago and he said that people there basically thought the same way that you do. They aren't after our guns, they are after their guns, and basically sat on their hands. Once some laws were passed the anti's picked up some steam it was all over. They claim too say it never would happen. They of course didn't have a constitution to back them up.

As far as the path to take goes I too don't know how to deal or to find common ground with the anti's. The thing you are forgetting is that an anti is always an anti. Today guns, tomorrow fishing, they never end. Someone here brought up the smoking issue, the same thing applies here. It is the epitomy of the give and inch take a mile cliche. First it is the hand guns, then semi-autos, then ammo limits, then who knows. The anti-gun people all have one thing in common, they blame the gun not the criminal. Until they realize that guns themselves don't kill people there will be no middle ground.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

TK33 said:


> Maverick said:
> 
> 
> > Step outside the box TK33....
> ...


It completely transparent you guys have NO IDEA what I am saying to you! I am not saying that we need people in thee groups to support ILLEGAL guns! We NEED people in these groups who have the ability to identify WHAT really IS a ILLEGAL gun! Put gun totting mayor in this group as watch dogs...Instead of being afraid of it (like you all are)!



> The path I was speaking of is the path you are on.


...and I am sorry that I believe (through my readings) the path you are leading us on is the path the other countries took! Great divide, no balance, and gun owners as the minority! Sound familiar!

I am sorry but anyone who can't see that interjecting PRO's in this group is a good thing is leading us down the wrong path! We need Watch dogs! Otherwise THEY WILL DO AS THEY PLEASE! 
I am sorry that you guys can't see that EVERY gun totting mayor SHOULD be in this organization! From ND to Texas to Alaska to Maine!
The phrase...Keep your friends close and your enemies closer....is good phrase to live by!

You guys need to change the way you read these articles as well! Instead of comprehending what happened you need to find what was missing! That's when we will follow a different path!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Didn't that fricken idiot take an Oath to uphold the Constitution? I call treason!! :sniper:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Maverick I know what you are saying. It simply doesn't work with anti's. If new laws are put in and crime goes down they will want more laws. If crime crime remains stable or goes up they will want more laws. There are some in these groups that have good intentions but most of them are motivated by greed, fear, or power.

If you start giving in to these groups the question then becomes what else are you going to give up? These people are after more than guns and hunting. Disarming or limiting firearms is the first step.

There are plenty of maig members with this agenda. Also look at safebackyards.com or .org. This is another group that falls into the same category as maig


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> Maverick I know what you are saying. It simply doesn't work with anti's. If new laws are put in and crime goes down they will want more laws. If crime crime remains stable or goes up they will want more laws. There are some in these groups that have good intentions but most of them are motivated by greed, fear, or power.


That is only true IF the group is made up of all anti's!



> If you start giving in to these groups the question then becomes what else are you going to give up?


...and here is where you and I are thinking differently! I am NOT SAYING GIVE UP TO THESE GROUPS!!!! I am saying we need watch dogs so the don't start asking "what's next"



> most of them are motivated by greed


Like you have said their numbers are down so NOW is a good time to interject PRO's! Unless you think they will eventually go away (which we both know isn't going to happen.... well atleast I can see that)! Which I think is your way of thinking!

The fact is with no oversight...Radicals WILL do as they please....period! A prime example is NDSU's new president's house!! No oversight mean NO CONTROL!


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

zogman said:


> Mav,
> 
> Read my tag line by Harry Truman
> 
> ...


You better read and understand your own tag....it's EXACTLY what I am trying to say to you!!!!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Maverick you are talking about changing the philosophy and agenda of the group. Bloomberg and menino aren't going to let that happen. They are anti gunners and fargo's mayor has no business being with them.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

TK33 said:


> Maverick you are talking about changing the philosophy and agenda of the group. Bloomberg and menino aren't going to let that happen. They are anti gunners and fargo's mayor has no business being with them.


In your opinion!!!!! :lol:
Which is fine, but in my opinion we NEED PRO's in these groups...again not for support.....(here I will say it again) not for support but to be a watch dog! I can't believe you can't see that! Step out of the box!

It is your way of thinking that the ANTIS's love! You see Pro's mayor have every right to be in the group! Anti's don't want them in so THEY CAN DO AS THEY PLEASE! Interject some PRO's and we bring the war to the meetings/agenda's and not in our homes! :wink:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Incorrect. What anti's love is when they can fool people. That is why they try to come off as being against illegal or black guns, use the family, and or crime.

Why don't you provide us with some examples where your ideas of interjecting moderates has worked. Chicago, California, and NYC were certainly failures.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> What anti's love is when they can fool people.


.....and that's a blanket statement! Who is the one being fooled! You are doing exactly what they want! They want the Pro's to sit back and watch!


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Here you go TK....

Straight from NY.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/26/us/bi ... -bill.html

When are you going to learn that we are going to have to just agree to disagree! :wink:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

So we should all quit the nra, quit contacting our reps and start supporting anti's in hope that a great infiltration and interjection of moderation and pro gunners will help them see the light?

I ask again where do you get this from? Any proof to substantiate your bizaare theories?

This has been tried before and has failed. Once again


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Once again step out the box! I said nothing about quiting the NRA (that would be just stupid)! That's your own rant and your way of thinking! Nor did I say anything about supporting the agendas set foreward! The fog is getting thicker!

Sure fun to play ball, but you can't play when you are sitting in the stands!



> This has been tried before and has failed.


...and it has worked before as well! Iguess my reference means nothing to you! Ignorance is bliss!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Maverick I couldn't get your link to come up.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/07/22 ... 1043.shtml

Here is another story that validates the side of opposition. I love when the antis cry.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> Maverick I couldn't get your link to come up.


Works everytime for me?

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/26/us/bi ... -bill.html


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> Here is another story that validates the side of opposition. I love when the antis cry.


OMG....You need to re-read that article! There is ALOT you are missing!!!

As far as this thread is going.... I am done....it is very transparent you have no idea what I am saying to you!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

That is a very telling article when you consider the source. Poll numbers, political fear, and the fact that CBS put it out there it is good news. It also shows which tactics are working.

We'll see what Walaker does soon, I hope this issue doesn't die.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Maverick said:


> > Here is another story that validates the side of opposition. I love when the antis cry.
> 
> 
> OMG....You need to re-read that article! There is ALOT you are missing!!!
> ...


I got your link to work now. That is from 2003, and there is not any mention of the Brady Campaign, MAIG, or that moms against guns group. I see your point on it though, but the radical anti's had nothing to do with it. I still fail to see how that ties into MAIG or anything group. I do agree that common sense legislation needs to get done but one cannot support a group because of one issue. If you look at MAIG and others what you are looking to do would require a total facelift of their groups. Their high dollar supporters wouldn't go for that, remember Maverick it always comes back to money.

The link I put up is two months old, and here are the keys:


> Among those who backed the amendment was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, who was joined by Southern and Midwestern Democrats in voting yes. Other Democrats who backed the amendment included Virginia Sens. Jim Webb and Mark Warner, Montana Sens. Jon Tester and Max Baucus and Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh. The New York Times has a full breakdown here.





> An ABC News/Washington Post Poll found that same month that 51 percent of Americans favor tougher gun control laws, down from 61 percent in 2007 and 67 percent in 1999.





> In April, a NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll found that just 53 percent of Americans favored a law to ban the sale of assault weapons and semiautomatic rifles. In 1991, that figure was 75 percent.


All data from 2009, data found from the some organizations that are not exactly pro NRA. I was irritated that the NRA was unable to thwart some candidates in the last election but it is clear that their tactics are winning the struggle. Hopefully we can convince Walaker to get out of MAIG.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Mav, if you think what is in that link is any thing like trying to change the ideals of a group like MAIG you are not nearly as smart as you want us to believe.

You need to step out of your little "I am so much smarter than you" box and see that your theory is horribly flawed. There is no way possible to "inject" a PRO cure into a disease like MAIG and those who run it. Do you really believe they would allow themselves to moved in their stance? They don't want to be pro gun and will not allow it to happen. They would silence the pros one way or another.

I can't believe the rest of us can see that, but some one "out of the box" can't. Maybe you need to just make your box a little bigger so your views are not so narrow!!


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## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

I just want to jump in here and let everyone who is adding input to this thread know that I am glad we are not bashing someone I view as a good man, but we are talking about what is and should be the real issue here. I said earlier that I don't think Walaker is making a good decision by joining this group, I also don't think he or anyone else is gonna change what they are pushing for. We need a group that is as powerful, rich, and outspoken as they are. We do need to take them head on, this is way to important a subject to go and befriend a group like that even if you think they could be swayed a little. Swayed a little wouldn't be enough. Be outspoken, call or write your politicians, if they don't answer, call another one. But most important I think if you are not doing your part to introduce the younger generation to what your beliefs are on hunting and firearms then in time we will lose the numbers battle and may end up down the road we all fear, the kid you take hunting or fishing today may become the person writing/or fighting the legislation tomorrow. Now I am off to bed, gotta wake up early, taking someone elses kid hunting grouse for their first time tomorrow am.


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## drjongy (Oct 13, 2003)

This is just like someone joining the HSUS (Humane Society of the United States) and thinking it's like their local humane society that saves puppies and kitties, when it couldn't be further from the truth.


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