# For Ducks? 1500+ FPS or 1400



## TBLACKDUALTEMP (Oct 1, 2002)

What do you guys prefer the 1550 FPS or the Slower shots.
Longer Shot String with the 1400? I know it depends on gun/choke but what more often than not brings them down?


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## sleeri (Oct 9, 2006)

I prefer more shot(oz.), so I end up with the slower shell. I've always heard / read that more shot is ussually "better." Sorry, no facts to back up my claim. I'm going to try a 3inch - 1 3/8 oz shell this year, which is about 1250 FPS. Probably too slow, but we'll see.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

I'll take speed over pellet count. I could be very happy with a 1oz (or even lighter) 2 /34" 12ga load for ducks.


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## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

I personally prefer the heavier loads for geese. It seems like I have less criples and deeper penetration when using 1 1/4 oz shot compared to 1 1/8 oz shot. I know Horsager knows what he is talking about when it comes to anything related to shooting though. He is probably right on the money.


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

Speed kills especially when it comes to steel shot. We use 1550's for most of our duck hunting but could get along with a little slower when hunting in flooded timber (close shots). Get a good fit with your gun, pattern your gun and use the proper pellet size for the job. With the correct pattern you will get plenty of pellets on target. We use BB for Canadians and #3's for duck. Again what ever size of pellet you use make sure to check the pattern. :beer:


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## Calef (Jun 29, 2006)

Horsager said:


> I'll take speed over pellet count. I could be very happy with a 1oz (or even lighter) 2 /34" 12ga load for ducks.


Amen Bro,

All I shoot is 2 3/4 in. 1 1/16 oz Experts @ 1550, 3's for ducks and BB's for honks.

Barnie


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

I'de agree with shine. With steel, speed kills.


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## scottjes000 (Jan 26, 2007)

I like the 1.25 ounce shot I think the speed does penetrate them better but they pattern very badly in my gun. so I eather hit them with a few shots or else about 20. the 1400fps 1.25 have worked great for me most of the time my shot stops on the other side of there body


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## Dave Owens (Nov 11, 2002)

Don't try this at home but in the waiting room of your local hospital.

Put several pencils in your hand. Next at a nice easy pace jam then into your forehead. Hurts right, might even have left a mark.

Now put one pencil in your hand and violently ram it into your forehead. After medical treatment you will realize it was speed, not numbers that caused the bleeding.


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## bandman (Feb 13, 2006)

:idea: I'm going to get right on that. :lol:


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## Milla Tha Killa (Dec 11, 2006)

i just did it  , LOL i wish Kent made a shell that shot 1700fps


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## scottjes000 (Jan 26, 2007)

pretty funny but fewer bbs through a bird will often mean looser patterns which will then mean its only effective at a shorter range


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

scottjes000 said:


> pretty funny but fewer bbs through a bird will often mean looser patterns which will then mean its only effective at a shorter range


Beings I have a firm grasp of leading a moving target and also believe it's possible to place your shot with a shotgun, I'll take my chances with less shot, more speed, and less recoil, every time. I might have patterned my shotgun somewhere in the mix too.


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

I Think Speed kills!!

I picked ups ome 3.5" 2s 1-3/8 and 1550 IMO BEST OF BOTH WORLDS

I have seen some 1625fps out there but I havn't shot them yet.


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## Milla Tha Killa (Dec 11, 2006)

i use a extanded full choke on my Supernova and i can put alot of 1625fps kents on traget. ive killed a couple ducks at 82 yards. which i will never shoot again. to long of a walk.LOL


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## justund223 (Aug 28, 2006)

Milla Tha Killa said:


> ive killed a couple ducks at 82 yards. which i will never shoot again. to long of a walk.LOL


did you use a range finder to get the distance :roll:


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## cmhlop72 (Feb 24, 2007)

they might have gone down at 82 yards, but i doubt you KILLED one at 82 yards.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Why not a happy medium? Federal bluebox Mag 1 1/4 oz at 1450 fps


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

_*Anything works pretty dang good if they're in range. I think a light shot payload like 1-1/8 or so patterns better and more of the shot arrives on target at the same time than with heavier loads. I do like the 1- 1/4 ounce stuff though and had some good luck with 1-3/8 earlier this year. So it all works. Just depends on what you have confidence in I guess. 
I been shooting pheasants with 1-1/4 oz. of steel #4 through a back bored gun and it really peels them :lol: 
Good hunting,
Dan*_


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## usmarine0352 (Nov 26, 2005)

Lead, baby. Lead. Nothing hits hard. LOL.

J/K. Some people actually still use it apparently, you see them getting caught by the DNR EVERY year.

All I think is, what where they thinking?

:beer:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Most shooters have never seen a shot string or understand how it functions. Tom Knapp has done a number of shows designed to educate proper lead so that the bird passes through the bulk of the pellets in a shot string!

So for some people who do not lead properly a shorter shot string from higher speed loads tend to give them the impression that speed kills. When if fact the speed is making up for the shooters inablity to judge lead properly.

Two things jump out with speed vs payload, to me from patterning shells. I have found that speed increases over 1450 fps in most chokes do not perform well on the pattern board. This can be fixed with aftermarket chokes to some degree using commercial loads.

Heavier payloads ranging in fps from 1300 to 1450 tend to pattern better out of factory chokes and even aftermarket chokes. Energy difference is minimal as far as being lethal and once pellets get beyond 35 yards the higher speed loads tend to drop off faster actually loosing effectiveness in both energy for penetration as well as density of patterns.

I like to shoot Fiocchi shells and the stated speed in# 2 steel 3" 1 1/8 oz loads is 1475, for 2 34" loads of 1 1/8 oz it is 1325! Out of the same gun and choke a 8% increase in pellets in a a 30 in circle at 35 yards is seen with the slower load! At 45yds it rises to 12% on average with enough energy to effectively kill ducks!

Now I may have a longer shot string with the slower loads, but it gives me more pellets in the air in a grouping that will kill ducks. In comparison of other brands of equal payload and even greater speed like 1550 fps, the slower load once again has more pellets evenly distributed across a 30" circle at both ranges.


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## usmarine0352 (Nov 26, 2005)

Ron Gilmore said:


> Most shooters have never seen a shot string or understand how it functions. Tom Knapp has done a number of shows designed to educate proper lead so that the bird passes through the bulk of the pellets in a shot string!
> 
> So for some people who do not lead properly a shorter shot string from higher speed loads tend to give them the impression that speed kills. When if fact the speed is making up for the shooters inablity to judge lead properly.
> 
> ...


Very good explanation.


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

Below is from a well known reloading supplier site. I reload and pattern my loads. I don't like to change velocity because it does seem to change lead. 99% of our duck shooting is over decoys usually within 35 yrds. Steel seems to loose to much energy beyond that range without having the retained energy needed from speed.

Relativity:

Steel ¾ = 110; Lead = 81 
Steel 7/8 = 129; Lead = 95 
Steel 1 oz. = 147; Lead = 109 
Steel 1-1/8 = 166; Lead = 123 
Steel 1-1/4 = 184; Lead = 136 
Steel 1-3/8 = 203; Lead = 150 
Steel 1-1/2 = 221; Lead = 164

So there you go. Fire the steel pellet with additional velocity and pellet parity will take care of itself. Certainly the number of pellets in your load are more than enough.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

Shinerunner, what size pellet does your example explain? BB's, 2's, ??

That said, I see that 1oz of steel has nearly an identicle number of pellets as 1 1/4 oz of lead. 1 1/4oz of lead is the amount of shot that Federal used in their old "Duck and Pheasant" ammo, based on that I'd think 1oz of steel at a higher velocity would be nearly perfect for ducks, at least it'll have enough pellets.


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

I use # 2 or 3 for duck/pheasant and BB for Canadians at 1550 fps. :beer:


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

I just found a website that give the difference with pic's that will answer everyones questions (maybe).

http://shotshell.drundel.com/steel.htm

If you are on target with the correct shot size with a reasonable speed at the distance shot you should in theory kill your target. I probably pass up a lot of shots that others might try because of distance. I had rather not shoot than cripple. When the first steel loads came out I was hunting in Western Tenn. and saw a lot of birds get hit, shudder and then fall 1/2 mile or more away in the swamp. Needless to say I was not impressed with steel at that point. As technology improved the steel loads, I started getting over my first impressions. Using a to tight of choke with steel is a no-no. To the beginner that has not studied the difference in lead and steel this is a mistake a lot make.

I use #5 nichel plated lead in my 20 ga., improved modified choke, for pheasant because of the _ballistics_ and they can be shot at a faster speed without deforming causing flyers that tend to bust up the pattern. 1o/z near 1400fps with a 65% pattern at 35 yards. :beer:


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

ShineRunner said:


> Relativity:
> 
> Steel ¾ = 110; Lead = 81
> Steel 7/8 = 129; Lead = 95
> ...


What shot size do these numbers correspond to?


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

Sorry I should have posted the whole article.

(We know both lead and steel pellets will vary slightly from batch to batch in size and weight. For purposes of continuing discussion, minor differences are swept aside here. Taking the modest #3 steel (iron) pellet and matching it against the lead pellet the reloader will find the following.

The reloader in interested in pellet count. What confuses more than a few reloaders is relativity of pellet weight vs. pellet count. We know lead loads from the past, a 1-1/4 duck load carries 136 #3 pellets. A smoky load! But did you know the steel pellet load of 1-ounce carries 147 #3 pellets? So we have - relativity - right there!

So there you go. Fire the steel pellet with additional velocity and pellet parity will take care of itself. Certainly the number of pellets in your load are more than enough.)
:beer:


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## Bruce (Dec 12, 2003)

The most important thing is range. If your shooting over 35 yards your chances of hitting a bird consistencely drops dramatically. Try shooting a crossing target that far at the range. You will be surprised how many you miss. So more shot in the cup is a major factor. At least keep your shells a constance speed to learn to shoot it. Speed is all hype to market more expensive shells. You don't need to shoot far.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

I thought it was accepted that high velocity has a negative effect on patterns :huh: They slow down faster downrange so once the pellets are downrange the difference is even less.

Say what you want but I like it when I know that I can consistently whack birds at 40-50 yards if I do my part. I'll take more pellets at that range and a longer shot string to help me out. 1400 fps is more then fast enough. So to answer your question I use 3" 1.25 once shells.

That pencil comparison is funny. So now we're trying to get less pellets on the bird to be more lethal? :lol:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

The debate over speed vs payload is as old as shot shells. Back when I was first shooting a shotgun all most of us kids only had 2 3/4" shotguns of 20-16-12 ga. These where mainly our fathers or grandfathers guns. Some wanted shotguns of there own and stepped up to 3" chambered guns. Most of us believed that a 12 would shoot farther than a 20 and if you had one a 10 gauge would kill birds in another county!

None of us understood the ballistics involved nor that many Magnum loads actually where putting pellets out down range shorter than it's little brothers.

Much the same has happened in the world of steel shot. Most people have no clue on the energy needed for proper penetration of the size shot they are shooting nor how far it will effectively penetrate a bird. As USA points out the principals of gravity and friction rule and cannot be changed. So as I said, speed makes up in closer shots for improper lead for many shooters. Thus more pellets on target with enough energy to penetrate will result in more clean kills. That is why speed works well for some and heavier payloads work better for others.

While patterning does not show shot string, it does show hits and allows the shooter to see if there are any holes in ones patterns. Choke,choice of shot,shot cup, pay load are all factors in the performance of a load. Kent's for example do not pattern as well or perform in the field for me as well as some other brands.

Field results are my true yard stick, with a good number of years under my belt of shooting steel loads I have arrived at favorite load choices and choke combinations. They work and I will stay with them for that reason!


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

Here is another web site with good information about this subject.

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.steelvslead.html



> Thus more pellets on target with enough energy to penetrate will result in more clean kills.


Ron, this is what I was trying to say but not as eloquently as you did. I think you are exactly right about the shotshell loads that anyone has used with success is best. That is the reason I try to make up for my inadeqaucies in shooting by getting the proper fit, proper shotsize for the game and pattern my gun.

Great thread 
:beer:


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

USA,

I might add that goose you dropped at like 50 yards would have never died if it wasn't for the shear number of pellets that thing looked like a cheese grinder.

I use 1 1/4 blue box 4 shot for ducks, cheap, and does the job, geese 3 inch BB Black cloud. yeah at costs $17 a box, but it patterns awsome through my gun, and when you pull the trigger stuff dies. I hate it when you see feathers fly and the bird keeps on going.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

This may help in understanding some issues surrounding non-toxic shot.

Making Sense of Nontoxic Shot
Lead will always be the standard when it comes to shot options, but today we can't always use lead. Read what our expert has to say about the newest shot materials.

by Layne Simpson

I can easily recall a time when nothing but lead shot was loaded in shotshells. Back then, the only decision hunters had to make before heading to the swamps and marshes was which pellet size to choose for the bird they were after. But as time passed, it was eventually decided for us that shot made of a less toxic material would be used for waterfowl hunting. From that point on, the picking and choosing became a bit more complex.

Lead is still the most popular of all the materials that hunters propel from the muzzles of their shotguns, and all things considered it is still the best material to use when making shot. Among other positive things, it is relatively inexpensive, it is readily available, and it is easily formed into round pellets on a mass-production basis. In addition to being quite dense, lead is relatively soft. This softness allows lead to travel through the barrel of a shotgun at great speed without damaging the gun's bore. Where it is still acceptable for use in hunting, clay target shooting and other activities, lead shot remains the best choice simply because it outperforms steel shot by leaps and bounds and it is far less expensive than shot made of other nontoxic materials. Lead shot can also be used in older guns that were not built to handle steel.

The downside to lead and the reason it was banned from waterfowl hunting is its toxicity upon entering the digestive system of a game bird. Most of the time, nontoxic shot is associated with the hunting of ducks and geese, but there are also places in the United States where it is required when hunting upland game as well. Rather than attempting to list those areas, I suggest that you contact your local wildlife agency.

Whenever a demand is created in the hunting and shooting industry, various companies are always eager to meet it head on, and this is exactly what has happened with shot during the past few years. First came ammunition loaded with shot made of iron (or steel, as it is commonly called) but other nontoxics eventually joined the battle as well. They include Tungsten-Iron from Federal, Tungsten-Matrix from Kent Cartridge of America, bismuth from Bismuth Cartridge, and, the latest in a growing lineup of exotics, Hevi-Shot as loaded by Remington. Federal once offered shotshells loaded with Tungsten-Polymer shot. This shot was basically the same as Kent's Tungsten-Matrix, but it no longer is available. With a gravimetric density of 7.86 grams per cubic centimeter (gms/cc), steel is the lightest of the bunch, followed by bismuth, at 9.60 gms/cc; Tungsten-Iron, at 10.30; Tungsten Matrix, at 10.60; lead, at 11.10; and, the real heavyweight in the ring, Hevi-Shot, at 12 gms/cc. Let's now take a closer look at each.

STEEL
Anytime you drag up a chair and prepare to discuss shot, it is important to remember that the higher the density of the material it is made of, the more slowly it sheds velocity and energy during flight. Steel is only about 70 percent as dense as lead, so pellets of the same size made of those two materials differ considerably in the amount of energy they deliver downrange. For example, if No. 4 pellets made of both materials exit the muzzle of a shotgun at 1,350 feet per second (fps), they start their journey with the same amount of energy, but the lead pellet will strike a 40-yard target with 4.4 foot-pounds (ft-lbs) while the steel pellet will deliver only 2.4 ft-lbs. In order for us to deliver the same amount of energy per pellet with steel as with lead, we must increase its diameter by two sizes. In this case we would choose No. 2 steel, which delivers 4.4 ft-lbs at 40 yards, the same as for No. 4 lead. But we are not finished with this particular lesson yet.

Even when larger pellets are used, ammo loaded with steel shot does not equal the performance of lead shot loads at all ranges, simply because a shotshell of a given length is incapable of holding as many of the larger steel pellets. Staying with those same two shot sizes in our comparison, Winchester offers 2 1/4 ounces of No. 4 lead shot in its 12-gauge 3 1/2-inch turkey load, for a total count of 303 pellets. That same company's 3 1/2-inch waterfowl load is capable of holding only 1 9/16 ounces of No. 2 steel, for a total of 195 pellets. Even though the steel shot load delivers the same amount of energy per pellet, its effective range is considerably less simply because a pattern fired with it contains only 65 percent as many pellets.

Some who have read previous articles I have written on the subject seem convinced that I am against the use of steel shot on waterfowl, but this is not true. The primary reason steel shot will always have its place in the waterfowl hunting scheme of things is its low cost compared to that of shot made of other nontoxic materials. Until someone comes up with a nontoxic shot that greatly outperforms steel but costs no more, steel will remain the most popular shot among waterfowlers. When I am hunting with a modern shotgun capable of handling steel and distances from me to the ducks and geese I hope to bring to bag don't greatly exceed 30 yards, I'd just as soon have steel as anything else. Out to that distance steel performs well enough so long as the correct pellet size is used. The performance advantage realized by the use of shot made of higher density materials really does not become apparent until ranges begin to exceed 30 yards or so. As favorite steel shot sizes go, I prefer No. 2 for ducks and BBB for Canada geese, although I have taken a few honkers with BBs as well.

BISMUTH
Another shortcoming of steel shot is the fact that it can damage the barrels of shotguns built prior to its widespread acceptance. This holds especially true for old doubles with extremely thin barrel walls. The introduction of bismuth shot solved that problem, and, even though early production runs had a few teething problems, shot now being made of that material delivers excellent downrange performance. During the past few years I have sent several pounds of bismuth flying through the air at waterfowl, mainly because I enjoy hunting with vintage guns. While bismuth's density is greater than that of steel, the density of bismuth is a bit lower than the density of lead, so I usually choose No. 5 shot when hunting ducks with my old Fox Sterlingworth. The situation may eventually change, but as I write this, bismuth and steel are the only nontoxics available to handloaders. I have shot quite a few ducks over decoys with 3/4 ounce of bismuth handloaded for a 28-gauge Winchester Model 12 and find it to be about as effective as the 2 3/4-inch 12 gauge loaded with steel shot, with much less recoil. As factory ammo goes, bismuth is available in 12, 16, 20 and 28 gauges and in .410 bore.

TUNGSTEN-MATRIX
Tungsten-Matrix shot as loaded by Kent is slightly heavier than bismuth and close to the same density as lead. Almost as soft as lead, it too can be used in vintage guns. Pure tungsten has a gravimetric density of 16 gms/cc, so it is considerably heavier than lead, but that material alone is far too expensive to use in making shot. Tungsten starts out extremely hard, but when it is blended with just the right amount of plastic (or polymer, as it is commonly called), it becomes about as soft as lead and its density is lowered to close to that of lead. This also reduces its cost considerably. I have hunted a lot with Tungsten-Matrix in 12-, 16- and 20-gauge guns. I prefer No. 3 shot for ducks and wild-flushing pheasants, No. 6 for smaller game birds such as quail and Hungarian partridge, and No. 1 for geese. This marvelous shot is available from Kent in 2 3/4-inch, 3-inch and 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge loadings, as well as 2 3/4-inch and 3-inch loadings of the 20 gauge.

Kent recently introduced a low-recoil 20-gauge load with an ounce of No. 6 at 1,240 fps. Since it is loaded to an extremely mild chamber pressure of just over 8,000 pounds per square inch, I am looking forward to using it when shooting ducks over decoys with my 1940s vintage Westley Richards double. My first experience with Tungsten-Matrix took place several years ago on a duck hunt in Uruguay, and I have been sold on it ever since. On that same trip, I also shot perdiz over pointing dogs and found the Tungsten-Matrix shot to be the equal of lead in the uplands. When given a choice, I hunt ducks and geese a great deal with a 1924-vintage Fox Sterlingworth, and it shoots beautiful patterns with Tungsten-Matrix shot. But then, so do most of the guns I have tried it in.

TUNGSTEN-IRON
As one might expect upon hearing its name, Tungsten-Iron shot loaded by Federal is a mixture of tungsten and iron. With about the same density as Kent's Tungsten-Matrix, it delivers more individual pellet energy than steel when pellets of the same size are compared. Even though Tungsten-Iron shot is harder than steel shot, it can be used in guns designed for use with steel. Federal's use of a plastic shotcup with extremely thick petals protects the shotgun barrel from damage, but the extra thickness takes up a lot of room and this reduces the amount of shot that can be loaded when compared to bismuth, Tungsten-Matrix and Hevi-Shot. The heaviest shot charge available in the 3-inch 12 gauge, for example, is 1 3/8 ounces, which adds up to an average of 192 No. 4 or 129 No. 2 pellets. Despite the lower pellet count, I find Tungsten-Iron to be one of the best choices available for dropping Canada geese at ranges just beyond the reach of steel. I especially like the 10-gauge and 3 1/2-inch 12-gauge loadings with No. 2 shot for geese and No. 4 for ducks. Federal also offers ammo loaded with a mixture of Tungsten-Iron and steel pellets at a lower price.

HEVI-SHOT
Hevi-Shot as now loaded by Remington is the newest player in the nontoxic-shot game. Composed of tungsten, nickel and iron, it is the heaviest of the nontoxics. At a density of 12.0 gms/cc, it is heavier even than lead. Owing to its extreme hardness, Hevi-Shot should be used only in guns designed to handle steel shot. The first time I experienced the fantastic performance of this revolutionary new shot was while hunting ducks. I later used it even more extensively in Remington's new 12-gauge Model 332 over-under, as well as a 20-gauge Model 11-87 while hunting waterfowl, blue rock pigeons and perdiz in Uruguay. Ducks of all sizes solidly hit inside 30 yards exploded like feather pillows in midair, but, more importantly, each and every shooter there made dead-in-the-air kills at ranges for which steel would have consistently crippled at best.

I have used Hevi-Shot a great deal on waterfowl, and while it has proved to be an outstanding performer for that application, I am even more impressed by what it does to a turkey gobbler at ranges I had previously considered foolish to try with a shotgun. All of the gobblers I have taken with it fell victim to Remington's 1 5/8-ounce loading of No. 6. All were one-shot kills and all of the birds were killed stone dead in their tracks.

Since Hevi-Shot is a bit more dense than lead, I have decided that one shot size smaller is not a bad choice, as it increases pattern density considerably. I like No. 6 for turkeys and ducks, No. 4 for small geese and No. 2 for Canadas. Remington is presently loading Hevi-Shot in the 3 1/2-inch 10-gauge and 3-inch 20-gauge, as well as the 2 3/4-, 3- and 3 1/2-inch versions of the 2-gauge shell. For now, you can get any shot sizes you want so long as the shot sizes you want are No. 2, No. 4, No. 6 and No. 7 1/2.


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## HATCHETMAN (Mar 15, 2007)

Fellas....Pellets only work if they are lethal. A pattern full of non-lethal pellets (regardless of payload) is still a non-lethal load (what I call a heads-n-wings load). Speeding steel up, or increasing the pellet size are the only ways to increase lethality with steel.....a well regarded FACT from the folks who run actual ballistic tests on steel pellets, and not field writers. You raise pellet size, you lose pattern density (can be fixed often by aftermarket chokes); you decrease pellet size, you MUST increase speed, or decrease shooting range. It's just that simple. If you want to be the most lethal shooter out there...use the most lethal pellet (something much heavier than steel); this way you get more lethal pellets in your load (decrease shot size and have more lethal energy pellets per ounce). Higher density pellets don't need the speed that steel does because of a wonderful thing called momentum...even though it starts out slower, it retains it's velocity (and subsequent energy) over a longer distance.


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## I_grow_pheasants (Sep 28, 2005)

I have found through my years of hunting that shooting a slower load works a lot better for me. I use #2's or 4's at 1450fps. This is my personal preference, I found shooting faster loads gets me many less kills, don't know if it means I lead the birds too much with a faster load or not, just know that for me slower is a lot better.


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Just out of curiosity, I wanted to pattern my 20ga today. I used a 7/8oz load of #2 shot, traveling at 1500fps, at 30 yards, using a mod choke. The gun is a stoeger uplander with 28in barrels. I only took one shot mind you, but I came up with 31 bb's in a 20in diameter circle. My shot mass was also a bit right, so it was probably more like 35 with the pattern centered. Maybe it's just me, but that seems like a decent pattern that just about any decoying goose would fall to. :wink:


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