# Field Trial Dog vs. Regular Dog (Brittany)



## shwagy357

I am going to buy a brittany bird dog to hunt grouse. I do not know if I should spend the extra money for a dog with a good field trial pedigree or just get a regular ole dog. What is the difference between a field trial dog and a regular ole hunting dog? Will the field trial dog be easier to train? Could I plan on any return on my investment with field trial dog if I breed it?

Thanks


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## EAM

Ruffed grouse, you mean when you say grouse? I can't speak for the ND situation as far as dog prices but I have owned brits and have hunted regularly with a successful brit field trialer, owner of a National Field Trial Champion, and hunted in ND with his 18 dogs last year and will again this year. I now have a couple cover dog (grouse trial) field trial setters that I hunt and trial. Cover dog field trial setters and pointers have a little more natural talent than brits, for grouse especially, in my opinion, and also apparently for my brit buddy after he's seen a few of them since he's bought a bunch of cover-dog setters in the last few years after 40 or so years with brits. I hunt primarily ruffed grouse and woodcock in the NE - mostly grouse, except when I go to ND or the like. I see quite a few brits and setters in the grouse woods with companions - those are the only two breeds I've ever actually seen in person make an honest-to-goodness point on Northeastern grouse - and all dogs that pointed were field trial dogs. Besides cover dog setters and pointers, I think brits among all other breeds come the closest to having the natural talent needed for grouse, although, unlike the cover dog field trial setters and pointers, they have not had 70 years of intense evaluation and culling based specifically on performance on grouse and this shows up in pointing closer then they should and ground-trailing the bird into the air more, as well as in less range and speed.

Very very good, top-of-the-line, field trial dogs, brits or setters, can be had for $500. I'm talking champion-sired pups out of dams sired by champions. I personally wouldn't call it a field trial dog unless it's close to bred like that. Lot's of what's sold as field trial dogs are not really bred like trial dogs and you'll see a difference in natural instinct level. Field trial lineage somewhere in the past is not a field trial dog, by a long shot. The ability of dogs decreases quickly without sustained good breeding practices.

The expensive dogs tend NOT be be field trial setters or brits. It's hard to find even mutt brittanies or setters for much less than a very good field trial brit or setter. Don't ask me why the very top lines of trial dogs are so cheap compared especially to many AKC dogs bred less for hunting - but that's the way it is and if anybody has convinced you otherwise they are bamboozling you. The low price is probably because true field trialers never breed for the public - they breed for fellow trialers and themselves and sell the excess, and it is a friendly pastime for the sake of good dogs provided to friends who will quicly tell you if the dog is lousy, not a monetary business for the sake of fleecing strangers for fat pocketbooks.

A good trial dog will do an incredible amount by instinctive interactions with wild birds, and you shouldn't want or need to interfere with that too much by "training". Here's what I suggest for a dog of appropriate trial breeding: Take the dog out on wild birds (with gun or not) as much as possible. Keep the dog to the front but don't restrict range or speed - the dog needs to get into cover so you don't have to and to stay far enough away from you so it can point birds before the hunter gets them spooky. After a little while the dog will start pointing enough so you can walk past him to flush - maybe at 9 months or a year and a half, depending on how many birds he sees, but maybe on the first bird. At this point, you can fully break him if you want - you'll be there with bird and dog so it is possible to do the full breaking. The honoring should also come naturally, maybe even faster, if you have a second dog that really points. In other words, train and handle the dog like a field trial dog is customarily trained and handled, on wild birds, not like a hunt test or NAVHDA dog would be trained or handled, as an obedience excercise on poultry.

Here's the point related to your question - with a lesser dog "any old dog" the chance is much less that the dog will have the instinct to handle birds so quickly and without training. You will probably get into a cycle of never handling birds properly or having to train with pen-raised birds that may destroy the ability to handle wild birds. If the dog begins to do anything worthwhile by four years old you will be lucky, where you could have it at 9 months or a year and a half with a well-bred dog that has the instincts to do what you need it to do.

Incidently, I got the first 8 NY grouse I shot at last year because my older dog was pointing so many I was just taking easy shots - I think he handled over 20 grouse in a row last year, starting from the first he saw, handling them without a flaw - fully broke - while hunting and in cover dog trials. He was trained and bred as I described, as every good grouse dog I've ever seen has also been trained and bred. One gets a taste for that kind of performance after seeing it as a fairly routine matter in cover dog field trials, and it's mighty hard to get anything but a cover-dog bred field trial dog and pursue that ideal after you see it happen for the first time, maybe after years of seeing ground-sniffing bootpolishing poultry hounds busting birds and putting them up in trees.

That said - if you want a dog aways close so that every busted bird is in range - don't get a field trial dog. A field trial dog satisfies only people who want and are comfortable with field-trial-like performance and fully understand it, and when it comes right down ot it, that's mighty few people, I've discovered, and almost all of them have participated in field trials at some time and are comfortable with range and speed and have enough experience with dog to think there is nothing too mysterious about a dog having the instinct to do most of the right things on it's own.

Now, as far as recouping money by breeding - nobody who respects trial dogs would ever breed a dog who was not an outstanding trial performer or buy one bred from outstanding trial performers. It's promoting bad or untested dogs, and that's not acceptable when there is so much outstanding, tested breeding stock and well-bred puppies begging for owners that we know about.


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## shwagy357

Do know of any well bred puppies for sale?


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## jmyers

Ditto for everything that EAM posted.

A dog from a reputable breeder is well worth the money! A good breeder is going to select for traits like strong prey drive and trainability. These two things will take you and a dog a long ways.

To find puppies that are available try the NSTRA.org site. There are a number of litters currently available in the classified section. Most of them by established breeders. With that said, I would still spend my time talking to breeders and understanding the types of traits they are breeding for in there programs.

Another place to check is gundogsonline.com. There are a number of Brittany pups available with in a days drive of NoDak.

The nice thing about NSTRA (National Shoot to Retrieve Assoc.) is that their trials simulate how most people tend to hunt (walking behind your dog), so the dogs don't necessarily run as big as some of the lines that are bred for horseback trials.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy your Brittany. Mine is a great hunter, decent NSTRA trial dog, and a super family pet!


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## Dick Monson

EAM, that is one great post. Please run that baby in the dog forum too.


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## Bobm

http://americanbrittanyrescue.org/index ... &sid=4#126

scroll down and look at Emma or dooley ( already trained) I would take a chance on either one.

or Ripley, Murphy, or Cole ( these three will need some more experienced training)

all good prospects in my very experienced and not so humble :wink: opinion

Lots of good dogs end up in rescue because people cannot handle active hunting breeds.

And forget breeding dogs you dont know enough about it or you wouldn't ask the question. There is no money in it at the level you are considering. I know this from past experience, just get a dog to train and enjoy it
good luck


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