# Archelogy proves bible acccurate



## zogman

Since we have not a religion thread. I choose to put this here.

Oh and Mr. MT please read thoughly before shooting from the hip. This is a little long. I hope it doesn't wear you out.

Archeology proves bible history accurate
Geplaatst op 17.11.2005 om 08:08:00

Is the Bible religious myth or accurate history? Some highly educated people say the Bible's history cannot be trusted. What do you think? Here is an important article to help you clarify your thoughts.

The Bible is the only ancient, well-organized and authentic framework in which to fit all the facts of history. The Bible does not record all history. In fact, there are huge gaps in the history contained in the Bible. Yet, without the Bible and what it reveals from prehistory, ancient history and prophecy-which is history written in advance-you cannot truly understand any history. No worldly source can help us as the Bible does!

But what do modern men say about the Bible? Most agree it is a book for the religious, but think its history cannot be trusted.

For centuries, until the so-called Age of Enlightenment-also known as the Age of Reason-the Western world accepted without question the historical accuracy of the account of the Garden of Eden, the Flood, the Tower of Babel, the history of the patriarchs and the Exodus from Egypt. However, in the 17th and 18th centuries, European intellectuals began to claim that only through human reason could true knowledge be obtained. Rather than the Bible, scientific reasoning became the source of authority-the ultimate judge of all truth. The Bible came under direct attack.

Then in the 19th and early 20th centuries, the theory of evolution-the fable of a creation without a Creator-and higher Bible criticism spawned by anti-Semite German rationalists, came on the scene and succeeded in completely removing God and the Bible from the picture. German Bible critics argued that the Bible was unhistorical and had no reliable basis in fact. They stated that the Bible was merely Jewish fable and folklore fabricated in the 5th and 6th centuries b.c.-in other words, that most of the Old Testament books were not contemporary records, but rather had been written centuries after the events took place. Many scholars came to deny the existence of Adam and Eve, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Moses, David and Solomon.

So today, most theologians and ministers look askance at the Bible and its history. The real tragedy is that these men refuse to study into and teach the vital lessons taught by these histories.

Foolish Scoffers
The great men of the Bible prophesied accurately that highly educated men and women who scoff at God and His revealed Word would dominate our world. Although men have sneered at God in every generation beginning with Adam, ours was to be the worst. The Apostle Paul wrote, "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools &#8230;. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Romans 1:21-22, 28). Although Paul is speaking specifically about the earliest men, we have not changed for the better; we have grown worse.

Since the 17th and 18th centuries, men have produced an amazing fund of knowledge in the industrial and scientific areas. Yet pursuing knowledge about God has been left out. Our generation knows less about God and what God is doing than any prior generation. Modern leaders in education, science and industry have created a science-centric world. They have pushed religion into the outer fringes of our civilization. Ours is not a religious age-though some may think it to be so. Paul saw into our day and said that end-time religion has "a form of godliness," but that men deny its power (2 Timothy 3:5). Most of the world's educated believe that mankind has outgrown the need for God. God has been made to seem powerless. This fact should alarm us. It is time we turn back to the all-powerful God.

Many believe that science will save us from our problems. Why can't we recognize that science is about to destroy us? Soon the need for God will come crashing back upon us. Then all men will have to admit that only God can save us.

The Apostle Peter wrote, "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts &#8230;. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished" (2 Peter 3:3, 5-6). Peter states clearly that one of the hallmarks of our day is a willing ignorance of God. The truth is, men could know much more about God but choose not to. What does this mean? Peter warns that willing ignorance of God, along with a great expansion in all other fields of knowledge, is the cause of the soon-coming, final global disaster (verse 7). Mankind, assuming self-rule without God, will bring itself to the brink of annihilation. Thankfully, God promises to intervene and stop our self-destruction.

Here are some perfect examples of what Paul and Peter are talking about. Bertrand Russell, the late British philosopher and avowed agnostic, wrote this in his History of Western Philosophy: "The early history of the Israelites cannot be confirmed from any source outside of the Old Testament, and it is impossible to know at what point it ceases to be purely legendary." Mr. Russell dismisses the Bible as unreliable legend in just a few sentences. Even though first printed in 1945, his book is still widely read by university students and is considered one of the best books of its kind. Young, bright minds have been and still are being prejudiced against the Bible, the foundation of true knowledge. Historian R.G. Collingwood, in his book The Idea of History (printed posthumously in 1946), tagged the Bible as "theocratic history and myth."

Most scholars lower the Bible to the level of Homer-mythology in poetic form. Unfortunately, many Bible scholars, ministers and theologians agree. Yet, there are mountains of evidence to prove otherwise.

The Bible is a book of accurate history. Contrary to what Mr. Russell had to say, there is evidence outside the Bible that proves the reality of its history. However, we hear very little about this evidence.

New Science: Archaeology
Most scholars have been ignoring pertinent facts. The willing (and sometimes willful) ignoring of the truth has been happening for decades. Even while Russell and Collingwood were writing their books, other scholars were unearthing spectacular discoveries that cast a bright light on the truth of the biblical record. Even prior to the mid-20th century, the new science of archaeology-the digging-up and study of the remains of man's bygone years-caused an earthquake within the anti-God scholarship of the critics. The facts are amazing.

As a science, archaeology has expanded to include the study of all cultures. However, at its earliest stage of development, the infant science was concerned most with ancient civilizations. For centuries, robbers, religious pilgrims, even Napoleon had unearthed and carried away multiple thousands of ancient artifacts from sites throughout the Near East and Egypt. It was during Napoleon's military expedition in Egypt in 1799 that the vitally important Rosetta stone was dug up.

Yet, it was not until the end of the 19th century that a systematic study and evaluation of the Near East began. This geographic region is known as the Fertile Crescent. Egyptologist James Henry Breasted first used the term "Fertile Crescent" to describe the lush, well-watered, crescent-shaped geographic region starting at the Persian Gulf moving up the Tigris-Euphrates valley, then westward over Syria and southward along the Mediterranean Sea through Palestine. The productive Nile valley is often included within the boundaries of the crescent. It is in this geographic region that the lands and peoples of the Old Testament history are located. For nearly two centuries, the Fertile Crescent has been the focus of intense archaeological scrutiny. Even Herbert W. Armstrong supported critically important digs in Jerusalem by sending Ambassador College students there as workers.

There should be strong public interest in the archaeological findings of this region. Although at one time archaeological findings did spark sharp interest by both secular and religious scholars, much is now forgotten or goes unnoticed.

Archaeology has confirmed without question the historical accuracy of the Bible.

Gainsaying Not Stopped
The scholars' main attack on Bible history in the early 20th century was that no secular records existed to provide evidence of the Flood, the Exodus, or the lives of David and Solomon. Many claimed that Moses could never have written the first five books of the Bible, since writing had not been invented at that time. But when the curious, energetic men and women dug up the past, these commonly held ideas were proved to be without foundation.

Modern archaeology has challenged the world of education to admit that the Bible is factual. Solid, documented evidence outside the Bible record confirms events and persons that were at one time considered to be suspect or plain false.

Still, some people work tirelessly to discredit the Bible as a God-inspired record of critically important history. Some have stubbornly overlooked overwhelming evidence. Others have purposely misinterpreted the facts to hold on to pet theories. Are we surprised? Not really. Why?

The Bible has the answer. No man of himself can accept or submit to the authoritative Word of God. Paul wrote: "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be" (Romans 8:7). Men have been successful in getting rid of God and His great authority (though in reality, God is very much present). They don't want Him back! To admit that the Bible is accurate historically would mean accepting that God does exist-and that His Word holds authority over the lives of all men. The brightest minds know that if the Bible is exact in its history, then its commands are in full force. You cannot separate Bible history from Bible law! The entire Bible is true, or it is false. It cannot be both.

Let's be plain: You can rely on the historical accuracy of the Bible.

Behistun Rock Deciphered
Let's look at several of the more important archaeological finds that confirm Bible history. Not all of these artifacts have been as publicized as some of the more spectacular ones like the Rosetta stone or the tomb of King Tut of ancient Egypt, yet they are momentous in regards to the evaluation of the Bible chronicle.

The deciphering of the Behistun inscription in the 19th century was one of the most remarkable archaeological advancements and the most vital to understanding ancient writings uncovered in the Fertile Crescent. The discovery opened the door for archeology to further confirm the Bible's historical accuracy.

The inscription, like a billboard about the size of half a football field, is situated on a cliff about 300 feet above the base of a mountain in the Zagros Mountains of western Iran. The site lies along the road that connected the ancient capitals of kingdoms of Babylonia and Media: Babylon and Ecbatana. The inscription dates back to 516 b.c. and is an account of Darius i's assumption of the Persian throne (521-486 b.c.). This account was written in cuneiform in three languages (Babylonian, Elamite and Old Persian). In 1835, Sir Henry C. Rawlinson copied and began to decipher the text, finishing the Persian translation in 1846. He and other scholars were soon able to translate the Babylonian and Elamite portions.

Many ancient cultures in the Middle East used cuneiform, but these works were a mystery until the trilingual Behistun inscription was deciphered-the discovery made possible the translation of other cuneiform writings.

The Behistun breakthrough led to others, including the translation of 22,000 tablets at the ruins of Nineveh, Shalmaneser's Black Obelisk, Shennacherib's Prism, and the epic poems of Gilgamesh and Enuma Elish. (These poems contain accounts of the Flood, creation and the tower of Babel that closely parallel the Bible.)

The Fabled Hittites
Bible critics had long sneered at references in the Bible to a people called the Hittites (Genesis 15:20; Exodus 3:8, 17; Numbers 13:29; Joshua 1:4; Judges 1:26 and elsewhere). Their opinion was that the Hittites were simply one of the many mythical peoples made up by Bible writers. Some critics said they may have been a small and unimportant tribe. But the critics were off the beam!

Toward the end of the 19th century, Hittite monuments were uncovered at Carchemish on the Euphrates River in Syria, proving the Bible right. Later, in 1906, excavations at Boghazkoy (ancient Hattusas, capital of the Hittite Empire) in Turkey uncovered thousands of Hittite documents, revealing a wealth of information about Hittite history and culture. The centuries-old Hittite rubbish showed they were a real and formidable power. They were once one of the dominant peoples of Asia Minor and the Near East. They exercised considerable control south into Syria and Palestine.

The Bible was right all along! Today, no one questions the existence of the Hittites. Volumes of books exist on the history, art, culture and society of the Hittites. Yet an anti-Bible prejudice still exists. Scholarly people usually believe that if it's in the Bible, it's wrong. But the Bible is right and has always been right.

In 1974, Italian archaeologists found approximately 17,000 cuneiform tablets and fragments at the site of ancient Ebla in northern Syria. The inscriptions on these artifacts date them prior to the 24th century b.c. Noachian Flood. Similar finds were uncovered in Egypt and Mesopotamia. The tablets show that writing was common centuries before Moses. The critics can no longer claim that Moses and his contemporaries were illiterate or that the Pentateuch was written by Ezra in the 5th century b.c.

No Jewish Captivity?
One of the most ridiculous claims of the critics has been that the Babylonian captivity did not take place. This is on a par with those who believe the Holocaust of World War ii did not happen. The Bible gives specific details about the captivity of Judah by the armies of Babylon early in the 6th century b.c. (ii Kings 24-25). Scholars have said it's all just another Jewish myth. However, between 1935 and 1938, important discoveries were made 30 miles southwest of Jerusalem at a site thought to be ancient Lachish. Lachish was one of the cities recorded in the Bible as being besieged by the king of Babylon at the same time as the siege of Jerusalem (Jeremiah 34:7).

Twenty-one pottery fragments inscribed in the ancient Hebrew script were unearthed in the latest pre-exilic levels of the site. Called the Lachish Ostraca, they were written during the very time of the Babylonian siege. Some of them are exchanges between the city's military commander and an outlying observation post, vividly picturing the final days of Judah's desperate struggle against Babylon! Since the 1930s, there has been more unearthing of Babylonian historical texts describing the conquest of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar. The historical fact of the Babylonian captivity is firmly established.

We could discuss literally hundreds of archaeological finds that corroborate Bible history. Noah's Flood, the Exodus, David, Solomon and the kings of Israel and Jerusalem as described in the Bible are proven to be historical by non-biblical sources. If you desire to know more, go to your local library and do some self-study. You may be surprised to find how much information is actually available to you. Unfortunately, you will not find this information on your nightly news. Two books we can recommend are The Bible as History by Werner Keller and On the Reliability of the Old Testament by K.A. Kitchen.

There are numerous biblically related artifacts in the British Museum located in London. They are breathtaking to see. Even though you may never be able to go to London, it is possible to log on to the museum website (www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk) and see pictures of the artifacts. Here is a short list of some of the more important treasures of antiquity:

- The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser III (858-824 B.C.) shows Jehu, king of Israel, bowing before the Assyrian king. This is the only known picture of an Israelite king.

- Tablets from the time of Tiglath-Pileser (744-727 B.C.) state that he received tribute from Jehoahaz of Judah. This is the full name of Ahaz (2 Kings 16:7).

- A wonderfully detailed limestone relief from Sennacherib's palace at Nineveh shows the siege of Lachish.

- One of the most important is the cylinder of Nabonidus (555-539 B.C.). He was the last ruler of the Neo-Babylonian Empire. This stele proves that his son Belshazzar was co-regent with him (Daniel 5; 7:1; 8:1). Scholars previously scoffed at Belshazzar's existence.

In his book A Survey of Old Testament Introduction, Gleason Archer Jr. quotes author John Elder as saying, "It is not too much to say that it was the rise of the science of archaeology that broke the deadlock between the historians and the &#8230; Christian. Little by little, one city after another, one civilization after another, one culture after another whose memories were enshrined only in the Bible, were restored to their proper places in ancient history by the studies of archaeologists &#8230;. Contemporary records of biblical events have been unearthed and the uniqueness of the biblical revelation has been emphasized by contrast and comparison to newly discovered religions of ancient peoples. Nowhere has archaeological discovery refuted the Bible as history" (emphasis mine). That last statement is the most important. Archaeology has proven that the Bible is accurate history!

A Recent Find
The contribution of archaeology to the Bible record is far from over. In August this year, an incredible find was unearthed in the Old City of Jerusalem. The event did not make national news. It should have!

Workers repairing a sewage-pipe break uncovered the Pool of Siloam in Old Jerusalem. This pool was a major gathering site for the Jews. The Pool of Siloam is central to the account of the miracle of Christ healing a man blind from birth (John 9:1-7). Christ put clay on the man's eyes and then told him to wash at the Pool of Siloam. Obeying Christ by washing in the pool completed the miracle (verse 11). This created an incredible stir among the Jewish elite of Christ's day (verses 14-41). Why? Jesus Christ had made the clay with His own spit on the Sabbath day. The Jews considered this act a breaking of the Sabbath command. Jealous and insecure, the Pharisees declared that Christ was not of God for healing the blind man on the Sabbath (verse 16). A study of the whole chapter makes plain that the entire incident was used by God to show the Pharisees how blind they were to God and what God was doing on this Earth. Of course, they failed to learn that lesson.

Why is all this important today? Here is what the Los Angeles Times reported about this incredible archaeological find: "'Scholars have said that there wasn't a Pool of Siloam and that John was using a religious conceit' to illustrate a point, said New Testament scholar James H. Charlesworth of the Princeton Theological Seminary. 'Now, we have found the Pool of Siloam &#8230; exactly where John said it was.' A Gospel that was thought to be 'pure theology is now shown to be grounded in history,' he said" (August 9). Do we get it? The scholars are wrong-again. The Bible is accurate-always!

Unfortunately, this archaeological event received very little attention. What if it had? Think about what this find tells us. It not only establishes the historical accuracy of John's Gospel, it reinforces the historicity of Jesus Christ. The find also establishes that it is God's desire to heal mankind of seemingly impossible health crises. God is very real and very powerful. Our modern scholars have their part in making many men, women and children as spiritually blind as the Pharisees of Christ's day.

It's time for all people to seriously question Bible critics. It is time for all Bible critics to stop pointing their finger at God-to quit casting doubt on the Bible record and start learning the true knowledge that will solve all humanity's problems.

And double AMEN here.


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## Militant_Tiger

I'm really not convinced. They stated that there are some artifacts which may relate to what was written in the Bible, but that doesn't mean that the stories are true or accurate. Certainly the pyramids exist, but if I wrote a book about how God put them there, that doesn't make it so simply because there is physical evidence that was written about.


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## zogman

MT,

Here you go again.........Look at the time of my post and the time of your responce. You couldn't have time to read my post let alone digest it. It's plain you just spew :bs: without ever reading anything that any one else posts uke: Caught again little buddy. Your credibility just keeps going lower and lower and lower :toofunny: :fiddle:

Your the best joke ever on this site. :bop: :splat: :lame: :stirpot: oke: Your very :welcome:


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## fishless

I read it just fine Zogman, thanks for posting.


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## Militant_Tiger

Had you taken the time to look at my post, you would have realized that the original post was to tell you that you link was broken, specifically I said "Your link is broken, comrad." Once you posted the article in full, I read it, and edited the previous post in order to avoid double posting, as the link was no longer an issue.

So uh... nice smilies.


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## zogman

SPIN......SPIN.......SPIN.......SPIN......SPIN.......


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## Militant_Tiger

Ahahaa now you assemble your own truth? Beautiful. I'll remember to take a screenshot in the future to ensure that everyone can see just how many facts you fabricate.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

MT, here's some helpful advise again:



> You admit you're wrong, and thats commendable. But unless you are willing to let go of your preconcieved notions of why things are the way they are, you wont learn anything.


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## Militant_Tiger

How exactly does that apply here?


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

That's the POINT you NEVER apply it!


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## buckseye

zogman thanks for the great reading material. I love God.


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## Militant_Tiger

Alaskan Brown Bear Killer said:


> That's the POINT you NEVER apply it!


But it has no relevence here.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

zogman, great post!


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## sevendogs

Nothing and nobody can save us from our problems and the ultimate problem yet to come. It will come as a result of overpopulation and overpollution. People can coptrol everything except their own population growth. All politicians compete trying to asure further economic growth...
Nobody cares about sustainability. What goes up will come down.


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## zogman

MT said


> Posted: 19 Mar 2006 12:47 Post subject:
> I'm really not convinced. They stated that there are some artifacts which may relate to what was written in the Bible, but that doesn't mean that the stories are true or accurate. Certainly the pyramids exist, but if I wrote a book about how God put them there, that doesn't make it so simply because there is physical evidence that was written about.


Note the time 12:47 No mention of my original post not working.......

Zogman found the original link didn't work and copied and pasted at......

12:52 MT all you saw was the title and you jumped in with both feet to try, very feeblie I must add, and respond to my post. Let me repeat for you to see and maybe understand.

" Once you posted the article in full, I read it, and edited the previous post "

There does not show that this was an edited post. :toofunny:

Your busted again. If I may add for the eleven hundredth time. :lol:

Your so easy............. :bop:[/quote]


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## Militant_Tiger

Again, you are free to create your own facts, but that doesn't make them true.


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## zogman

MT said


> everyone can see just how many facts you fabricate.


Fact are just that. FACTS. You cannot fabricate facts. You my little friend can and do fabricate many things. But no one buys it here.......


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## Militant_Tiger

You cannot fabricate facts? Well after this little performance I wouldn't put it past you.


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## Gohon

> There does not show that this was an edited post


Also since when does a edited post change the original post date and time. I thought they remained the same...........


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## Militant_Tiger

> Also since when does a edited post change the original post date and time. I thought they remained the same...........


The original time is posted at the top, the edited time is posted at the bottom.


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## zogman

Gohon,



> Also since when does a edited post change the original post date and time. I thought they remained the same...........


Correct and it generally gives a new date with the date and time it was edited.


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## Longshot

Nice try MT.

You edited at - Last edited by Militant_Tiger on Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

That's one time at 5:47 pm and Zogman called you at it at - Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:19 pm.

Trying to cover your tracks over four hours after Zogmans 2nd post pointing out your troll work.

:gag: :withstupid:

1st edit

2nd edit

3rd edit

4th edit


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## Militant_Tiger

I was checking if it would show the "edited on..." message if I edited it a second time. It did.

I am amazed by what lengths you boys will go to try to make me look bad.

I have edited this message twice, once to add "try" in between the two "to"s, and once to add this. Don't ask me why it doesn't register. It doesn't.


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## Longshot

> 1st edit
> 
> 2nd edit
> 
> 3rd edit
> 
> 4th edit
> 
> Last edited by Longshot on Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:30 pm; edited 4 times in total


Your full of it again MT. Look at my post before this one. I'd say an outright lie.


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## Militant_Tiger

I see you aren't very prudent about throwing around allegations. My last post was edited twice, it shows no edited mark. Evidently that makes me a liar.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

Like you said MT:


> Because if you wish to prove the existence of something, the burden rests on you, not the person who does not believe in its existance. That is like if you told me that pink flying elephants exist simply because I have no evidence to the contrary


You have several double standards!


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## Ranger_Compact

Confused...so it's a history book...that goes on the non-fiction shelf...by the atlas and the dictionary. But with how decorated and far-fetched the author made that "history book" you call the bible...I would think it belonged in the fiction section...hummm...this sound like a job for Colbert!

Stephen has a bookshelf with a "fiction" and "non-fiction" section. Watership Down and the Bible are in the "non-fiction" section, while The Origin of Species and Sexual Behavior in the Human Female are in the "fiction" section. A copy of Elie Wiesel's Night is duct-taped between the fiction and non-fiction sections.


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## Militant_Tiger

Lol, I missed the duct taped _Night_. I'll have to look for that next time.


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## racer66

Blub, blub, blub.


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## buckseye

> Stephen has a bookshelf with a "fiction" and "non-fiction" section. Watership Down and the Bible are in the "non-fiction" section, while The Origin of Species and Sexual Behavior in the Human Female are in the "fiction" section. A copy of Elie Wiesel's Night is duct-taped between the fiction and non-fiction sections


Ranger.... :lol:


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## Plainsman

I enjoyed it also Zogman. Remember the self esteem books that begin in the late 1970's, like looking out for number one? Many people today are so impressed with themselves that they think there can be nothing greater. These people can't believe in god. It also leads to delusions that anything they do is justified in their mind, hence we get children killing each other like in Columbine.


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## Militant_Tiger

I don't think it is so much arrogance as science that is killing religion. People take the stories in the bible as non fiction, and when science shows them that it couldn't be so, they lose the faith. I don't invest all of my faith in either.



> It also leads to delusions that anything they do is justified in their mind, hence we get children killing each other like in Columbine.


Oh, I think there has been as much violence in the name of religion over the years as there has been for secular reasons.


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## Plainsman

You don't really expect serious discussion with me do you MT?????????


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## Militant_Tiger

Plainsman said:


> You don't really expect serious discussion with me do you MT?????????


I expect nothing from you Plainsman. You always deliver.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

God would have to come to him and show a valid ID before he would believe then he would have to take a lie detector test and show at least 3 miracles...........Then maybe that would be proof enough.


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## mr.trooper

Ever heard of Tyr and Sydon? "Experts said THEY were just a myth...untill archeologists discovered them just where the Bible said they were.

Ever hear of the City of Petra? According to the Bible, it was the capitol city of Edom; the nation decended from Esau. The Bible claims that it was located south east of palestine, in Jordan, in a very mountainous region. What set Petra apart form other cities was the fact that it was protected by natural sand-stone formations, essentialy giving it natural walls, and protection from invaders. Guess what? its right where the Bible said it was. I know your going to google it for yourself in a vain effort to poke holes in my argument. Go ahead, I already looked it up, I'm right.

I could go on, but i doubt that any amount of proof will convince you to stop trying to destroy your own faith. :eyeroll:

Look, if a high-school student with something to prove could single handedly relegate Christianity to the relm of myth, and prove evolution correct all in one fell swoop, then we wouldnt still be arguing about this. your not going to prove anything.


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## Militant_Tiger

As I stated previously, the fact that the Bible correctly chronicles the existence and placement of certain objects and cities doesn't make the stories true.


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## mr.trooper

Militant_Tiger said:


> As I stated previously, the fact that the Bible correctly chronicles the existence and placement of certain objects and cities doesn't make the stories true.


what it DOES is establish that the setting and basic history behind the stories IS true. IS there a better way to establish credibility? I dont think so, but you in your infinity wisedom probably have a better method.

I REPEAT myself:


Mr.trooper said:


> look, if a high-school student with something to prove could single handedly relegate Christianity to the relm of myth, and prove evolution correct all in one fell swoop, then we wouldnt still be arguing about this. your not going to prove anything.


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## Militant_Tiger

> what it DOES is establish that the setting and basic history behind the stories IS true. IS there a better way to establish credibility? I dont think so, but you in your infinity wisedom probably have a better method.


It establishes that it was written by people who knew their geography, nothing more.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

MT, I will pray for you.


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## racer66

> It establishes that it was written by people who knew their geography, nothing more.


I think you should have spent a little more time in the CPN forums a few years ago, with other interests rather than banning members.


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## Militant_Tiger

These conspiracy theories are really cute. I can see I'm having an effect on you boys after all, you're getting more liberal by the day.


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## Gohon

No **** Sherlock.......... that's exactually what I said.

However Zogmans post reads, Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:47 am.

Your post reads, Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:47 am.

Like the man said, you didn't have time to read the post let alone digest what you read.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Like the man said, you didn't have time to read the post let alone digest what you read.


I commend you for skipping over most of this thread and creating your own reality.


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## Militant_Tiger

Just to prove you wrong

Detroits current time



and the time during my edit


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## Militant_Tiger

Yet the post time is 12:18. Either I have a time machine or all you boys with your conspiracy theories were wrong.


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## Gohon

Militant_Tiger said:


> Just to prove you wrong
> 
> :lol: Nice try kid............. doesn't prove anything and even if it did mean something your still trying to claim you read the entire post, digested it's content, typed your response and all in the space of *2* minutes. Yep..... you're a real piece of work all right. BTW, you need to work on how to post links. I had to correct them for you to get them to show up.......... :crybaby:


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

MT's quote:


> When there is insufficient evidence to prove your point, you fabricate it.


Looks like MT's mastered that one!


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## Ranger_Compact

On a lighter note...I just went to the movie King Kong last week. Does this mean Kong is real too? Ahh!!! Scary! What else would we have? Unicorns, mermaids, lochness monsters, sirens, E.T., zombies and vampires, pixies and fairies, Cupid, Easter bunny, Santa Clause and the flying reindeer. I guess I just grew out of the bible as normal people (hopefully) grew out of these mythical creatures as little children, and I got a mind of my own. Religion teaches people what to think, not how to think. Atheists are called Freethinkers for a reason, you know!

*"To become an atheist is akin to when a child finally accepts that Santa is just pretend. The child lets go of a cherished belief and replaces it with a greater maturity in facing life as life is. If we failed to discard the Santa fantasy, our mental development would assuredly be impaired and a full and proper understanding of the wonder of the natural Universe and our place in it, lost forever."

Religion is our grown-up Santa. Think about it.

-Atheist Foundation of Austrailia Inc.*


----------



## FlashBoomSplash

I dont knock anyones religion including atheist. But I think the bible gives good guidlines that everyone should follow. Like the ten comandments. So ranger compact if you took anything to atheism with you I hope you took the ten comandments.


----------



## Ranger_Compact

FlashBoomSplash said:


> I dont knock anyones religion including atheist. But I think the bible gives good guidlines that everyone should follow. Like the ten comandments. So ranger compact if you took anything to atheism with you I hope you took the ten comandments.


*Ten Commandments of the Ethical Atheist*

1. Thou SHALT NOT believe all thou art told. 
2. Thou SHALT seek knowledge and truth constantly. 
3. Thou SHALT educate thy fellow man in the Laws of Science. 
4. Thou SHALT NOT forget the atrocities committed in the name of god. 
5. Thou SHALT leave valuable contributions for future generations. 
6. Thou SHALT live in peace with thy fellow man. 
7. Thou SHALT live this one life thou hast to its fullest. 
8. Thou SHALT follow a Personal Code of Ethics. 
9. Thou SHALT maintain a strict separation between Church and State. 
10. Thou SHALT support those who follow these commandments.


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## FlashBoomSplash

> 6. Thou SHALT live in peace with thy fellow man.


I like that one.


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## buckseye

Ranger, I bet when you have a child you will want something greater than man to watch out for it. Are you Baptised? I think you'll grow older and see the need for man to fear something greater than man. I love GOD!
Jesus is my Savior!  pass the tators.. :lol: GOD has a sense of humor I hope


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## Militant_Tiger

I just obviously showed you that I either have a time machine, and I am thus able to produce a time one minute ahead of the actual time, or you were wrong.

I am absolutely stunned by your insolence. Gohon your self imposed ignorance stuns me.


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## hill billy

Atheism, modern day cult. Hope you can bring an air conditioner with you when you die. Its gonna be hot. It is better to live as if there is is a God and die to find out there isnt, than to live as if ther isnt a God and die to find out there is.


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## Gohon

MT you didn't prove anything except that you once again didn't tell the truth, and just simply through out bs spin like you always do in a vain attempt to cover another lie. And your stupidity doesn't stun me at all. Actually I think everyone is use to it by now............ Now run along like a little trooper and go play in your sand box and stop bothering the grown ups. All you are doing now is trying in your little moronic manner to pull the thread off topic.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> Atheism, modern day cult. Hope you can bring an air conditioner with you when you die. Its gonna be hot. It is better to live as if there is is a God and die to find out there isnt, than to live as if ther isnt a God and die to find out there is.


Is not modern religion just as much of a cult? Would a just and loving God not forgive the very beings that he created for believing in another diety?


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## hill billy

If you dont believe in God he will not believe in you. So if you turn your back on God he will turn his back on you.


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> If you dont believe in God he will not believe in you. So if you turn your back on God he will turn his back on you.


He created me, how could a loving God deny the existence of his creation? Are you speaking of God or Victor Frankenstein?


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## always_outdoors

RC: You need to edit out lochness. She really does live in the lake. 
You can't put her in with unicorns.

That is like saying bigfoot doesn't exist.


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## hill billy

He will deny you because you deny him. Kinda like biting the hand that feeds you. He created you but you dont believe in him.


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> He will deny you because you deny him. Kinda like biting the hand that feeds you. He created you but you dont believe in him.


But how can a just and loving God forsake what he has made?


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## hill billy

So what you are saying somebody that kills people and rapes people is going to heaven even if they dont repent. Even if they dont ask for forgivness you think God will forgive them and let them into heaven. Come on now, you argue just to argue. This country was built upon Christianity, the money you spend says in God we trust. If you dont believe then leave.


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> So what you are saying somebody that kills people and rapes people is going to heaven even if they dont repent. Even if they dont ask for forgivness you think God will forgive them and let them into heaven. Come on now, you argue just to argue. This country was built upon Christianity, the money you spend says in God we trust. If you dont believe then leave.


If God created that person, certainly he could have changed their impulses and their fate. He chose not to, and yet he created them all the same. God loves all his children.

This country was built on the principles of the republic and freedom of religion, not Christianity.


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## hill billy

What about the pledge, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, and our currency has in God we trust. Again, you are an idiot, nobody likes you, get a job loser.


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> What about the pledge, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, and our currency has in God we trust. Again, you are an idiot, nobody likes you, get a job loser.


Which God?


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## hill billy

The only God,


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> The only God,


Which God is that? How do you know what God they were referencing? You know deism was popular during this time.


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## hill billy

Which God do you believe they are referring to? You said you are a Christian, if so how come all this BS. You arent a very good Christian if all you do is sit around and debate if God exist or not. To me you sound like all you have to do right now to entertain yourself is to come on Nodak Outdoors and disagree with everything everybody has to say. You my friend are trapped inside a small world of your own. Once you get out into the rreal world and stop depending on mommy and daddy you will see the big picture.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Which God do you believe they are referring to? You said you are a Christian, if so how come all this BS. You arent a very good Christian if all you do is sit around and debate if God exist or not.


I simple don't follow blindly. It is a belief, none of us know if our religion is the correct one, or if there is a correct religion. As such, I will not invest all of my faith in one area without questioning my own beliefs.


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## hill billy

Then why call yourself a Christian. To me you are confused. I know my religion is the correct one because I have faith in God and the Bible. How can you be christian but then say you dont invest all of your faith in one direction? Sounds like you are confused. If you want to argue make sure you know a little about what you are arguing about. From the looks of it you spend most of your time on Nodak Outdoors when apparently you should spend a little time in the church, then maybe you wouldnt be so confused. Never know you might even make Mommy and Daddy proud.


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## Gun Owner

hill billy said:


> From the looks of it you spend most of your time on Nodak Outdoors when apparently you should spend a little time in the church,


Or School.... Isnt today a school day?


----------



## hill billy

He probably skipped school so he could play with himself while debating on Nodak Outdoors.


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## Militant_Tiger

It was a half day and I had access to computers for all three hours.

You see hillbilly, what you have is faith. That doesn't mean your religion is the correct one, simply that you believe in it.


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## hill billy

Christianity is the right one. That is why I believe in it.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> Christianity is the right one. That is why I believe in it.


But you have no proof beyond your faith that it is the correct religion, hence why I will not follow it without questioning my belief in it.


----------



## hill billy

Faith is enough, maybe if you had faith you would know what I am talking about. You are clueless and make up excuses for not knowing anything about religion. You dont even know what you believe because you are to hard headed to believe that there is a God. You say you are just open minded, but I think you dont know what to believe. If your parents cared enough about you then they would have made sure you had a religious upbringing. Course if you did go to church you would probably just sit there and finger paint with all the other kids while the big people are worshipping.


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## Militant_Tiger

> You dont even know what you believe because you are to hard headed to believe that there is a God.


On the contrary, you are too hard headed to believe that there is not a God, or that it is not the God you know from the Bible.


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## hill billy

That is because there is only one God and it is the God from the Bible. You having an open mind may be your downfall.


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## Gun Owner

Militant_Tiger said:


> On the contrary, you are too hard headed to believe that there is not a God, or that it is not the God you know from the Bible.


I dont see how you can call yourself a christian and make that argument. You may have christian values, and you may one day end up a christian, but untill you can let go of those kinds of thoughts, you cannot call yourself a christian.


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## hill billy

Agreed


----------



## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> That is because there is only one God and it is the God from the Bible. You having an open mind may be your downfall.


So says you, there is no proof of this. I will not limit myself to one belief and close my mind to all others; what you say is the beginning of fanaticism.


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## hill billy

So what religion are you? Surely you have found one that best fits your desire to be such an idiot.


----------



## MSG Rude

Mt,

The fact that you love to debate is evident. You would say the sky is green just to stir someone's pot.

When are the rest of you going to learn that about him? He loves to debate. I beleive that at school he has run off his local group of folks and that is why he starts crap here. Anyone get one of his stupid little PM's trying to start some crap? I stopped playing with him on them and he stopped sending them. Like a child trying to start a fight. People, over look him posts and take the power away from him. Can't you see he is controlling you? He knows that there is reciprication and he can controll you by posting something stupid to spark you up.

Ignore him and it will finally go away......again.....like the brief reprisal we had from him for a while. Stop replying to his rantings, stop replying to his posts, stop replying to him period and he will go away....again.


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## hill billy

Yeah you are right, he isnt worth anybodies time.


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## njsimonson

I thought MT was a girl?


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## hill billy

MT is so open minded about everything, he/she dont even know.


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## Militant_Tiger

I debate positions because those are the beliefs that I hold.

I didn't leave for lack of attention, I assure you of that.

How can you claim that I am here to stir the pot when people like flash bang start topics specifically to argue with liberals, and people like hillbilly and gohon use incendiary speech at all times? I suppose you ignore their actions because you agree with their beliefs. You see, you don't have a problem with the way I present my argument, you dislike the fact that I have a differing opinion and I voice it.


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## hill billy

It just appears that you like to argue with everybody.


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## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> It just appears that you like to argue with everybody.


Consider where this board is located and what kind of people it attracts.


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## hill billy

What does that have to do with you arguing woth everything anybody has to say. You are so negative.


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## MSG Rude

Militant_Tiger said:


> I debate positions because those are the beliefs that I hold.
> 
> I didn't leave for lack of attention, I assure you of that.
> 
> How can you claim that I am here to stir the pot when people like flash bang start topics specifically to argue with liberals, and people like hillbilly and gohon use incendiary speech at all times? I suppose you ignore their actions because you agree with their beliefs. You see, you don't have a problem with the way I present my argument, you dislike the fact that I have a differing opinion and I voice it.


GOOD TRY KID, I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT HERE EITHER.

See class, this is the way Mt is. Takes something you say and try's to get you to fight. ignore the child and it will go play some where else.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

SFC Rude,

Right On! Maybe if he wants attention he should get a JOB and impress his parents. :lol:


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## MSG Rude

ABBK,

I have offered him a job :wink: several times but he/she won't take me up on it. it would really give him some 'first-hand' knowledge on what he spouts about he/she won't take it.

love to make it an 11B if I could!


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## SODSUCKER

Good post Zogman!!
You put a lot of work into it. Too bad you and others let MT get to you. He sure took the spotlight off of the truth and focused it onto himself again didn't he.

SODSUCKER


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## NDTracer

MT I just want to verify what I am reading here. You question if there is a god or you question if there is a God or both?

Do you believe Satan, Devil, or what ever name you perfer exists?

I will wait with the rest of my subject till I hear your response.


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## Militant_Tiger

I'm not certain what exists, but as it stands now, I believe in God and I believe Jesus to be the extension of God.


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## NDTracer

OK I was just curious as I am sure you know Satan believes in God as do I.

Now what I forgot to say. Great post except for MT trying to steal the point of it. BYE BYE from ND


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## Ranger_Compact

First, I would like to say that was completely inappropriate for Gun Owner to dictate whether or not Militant_Tiger can call himself a Christian. Now I don't believe in any of that bs you guys refer to as god, but I do know it is wrong to tell someone who they can and cannot be. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard on here, and I've heard some pretty stupid comments. Secondly, Militant_Tiger says he is a Christian who just has an open mind and questions the existence of certain subjects. I think it is morally wrong to cut down your own. You guys say that you are Christian, yet look at the way you are trying to break down your own people! And lastly, maybe if you guys opened your minds, you would realize there are other thoughts out there. You wouldn't just disregard them. Well, obviously you are not disregarding them. I think you believe Militant_Tiger, and just don't want to admit it, and that scares you. If you didn't care what he had to say at all, and thought his questioning was completely stupid, you wouldn't be arguing with him! You would simply shake it off, and move onto the next subjects. But you aren't, since you question it in your own mind, you argue-to find out more about Militant_Tigers thoughs, because you may want to make them your own. Just a thought...


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## hill billy

You refer to God as BS. Thats okay, you will see.


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## Militant_Tiger

They are frightened by someone with beliefs that differ even slightly from theirs, hence their recoiling response.


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## hill billy

Okay RC, I am not bashing you for what you believe. It is your right to believe how you see fit. MT dont know what he/she believes and just wants to stir things up. I guess I have never had the pleasure to speak to an Atheist, so I have a question for you. Again I am not bashing or putting you out I am just curious okay. if you dont want to answer you dont have to. Anyway, If you were going to try to convince me that atheism is the way to go, how would you do that what would you tell me? Also how can you prove there is no God? I know you will say well how can you prove there is a God. Well you give me your best answer and I will give you an answer. Okay...


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> MT dont know what he/she believes and just wants to stir things up.


Have you considered that these might actually be my beliefs, and that we are simply very different people?



> I know you will say well how can you prove there is a God.


How do you respond to it then?


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## hill billy

Quit trying to make everything about you, go away.


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## Militant_Tiger

I am defending myself from attackers who believe that I post here simply to stir trouble, and that I am willing to be the devils advoate on issues to do so. This is simply not true. I didn't make these threads about me, you and your kin did.

Again, care to explain how you are certain that there is a God?


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## hill billy

This had nothing to do with you, I asked RC a question. I dont have time for you MT. Go away. keep reading though cause if RC can show valid proof there is no God then I will show her there is.


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## Ranger_Compact

I'm not going to try to fancy this up and put it in great words. I'm hungry and want to go eat lunch in a minute, so here is a quick response. I don't believe in god at all, because there is no evidence that he exists. Yet there is such a thing as Darwinism and the Theory of Evolution-which is full of hard facts and proof. People are simply responsible for their own actions. Also, think of the song Imagine by John Lennon, it's actually the background song on my xanga- http://www.xanga.com/hootiemutt . That song kind of puts things into perspective. I think it is stupid when people blame god for things, when everything is in their control, or in no one's control at all. Also, if there was a god that was so great, there wouldn't be so much hurt in this world. And no, you don't have to go saying, "without suffering there would be no compassion". I think that is a dumb saying, and there can be suffering to be the opposite of compassion, but the suffering doesn't have to be so bad to envoke compassion in people. To me, the religion as a whole is the worst thing to ever be created. If you are going to worship somebody, it might as well be a living person that you can actually interact with, or somebody you personally knew who has died. I don't see the big deal with an afterlife. Shouldn't you just be happy that you lived the life you did, instead of expecting a reward for being a good boy throughout you life? I say, live life to your fullest and you won't need an afterlife, just live every minute like it's your last. In other words, quit bothering Militant_Tiger. I'm sure there are much better ways to live your life than pick on others. Like I said before, I'm hungry. Toodles~


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## Militant_Tiger

> This had nothing to do with you, I asked RC a question. I dont have time for you MT. Go away. keep reading though cause if RC can show valid proof there is no God then I will show her there is.


This is a forum. In forums, one discusses issues with multiple persons. If you feel the need to talk directly to RC, use private messages, otherwise expect others to jump in.


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## racer66

He is not a christian.


----------



## hill billy

RC you have yet to prove that there isnt a GOD. You talk evolution, so if we came from monkeys how come there are still monkeys. What caused the Big Bang theory? Somebody had to be doing the banging. Do you actually believe that all this world and universe just made itself one day . Even if we did evolve fro monkeys where did the monkeys come from? Night and day, explain all of that. Humans didnt just stand up one day and start walking around. I bet you believe that there was actually a first president named george washington dont you. Even though you cannot see him you believe he existed right.


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## Militant_Tiger

> RC you have yet to prove that there isnt a GOD. You talk evolution, so if we came from monkeys how come there are still monkeys.


The burden of proof is on the person who is attempting to prove said thing's existence.



> He is not a christian


I'm just not your kind of Christian. I have no wish to be your kind of Christian.


----------



## Ranger_Compact

hill billy said:


> if RC can show valid proof there is no God then I will show her there is


I think that is a very funny thing for you to say. You will only show me proof that there is a god, if I show you there isn't?! Sounds like you were just planning on twisting my words around to suit your needs for an explanation, but you can't do that unless I have perfect proof. What caused the big bang theory? I don't know exactly, but I'm willing to bet it was something scientific. No I don't believe the entire world just made itself in one day, I think it gradually evolved over time. How do you think the world was created? Did god wave his magic wand or sprinkle some fairy dust over the world? I don't think so. Why is Jesus a tall white guy? Shouldn't he be dark-skinned instead of blindingly white like he is always pictured as in paintings and whatnot? And the Virgin Mary? What the hell?! Somebody knocked her up, and it wasn't the Holy Spirit. My guess is it was out of marraige, or she was just plain ashamed of the father. If I got pregnant today, does that mean I could claim it was the Holy Spirit that made my baby?! No, people wouldn't believe me now, so I won't believe her then. And who would pay my child support, all the Christians in the world, since it's their responsibility for bringing the Holy Spirit into the world, aka: making it up!


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## hill billy

This is a forum. In forums, one discusses issues with multiple persons. If you feel the need to talk directly to RC, use private messages, otherwise expect others to jump in.[/quote]

I will talk to others just not you, you are a completely clueless to anything I or anybody else has to say on here.


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## Militant_Tiger

> I will talk to others just not you, you are a completely clueless to anything I or anybody else has to say on here.


You discount my opinion because it disagrees with yours. What a sad state of affairs.


----------



## hill billy

It took God 7 days to make the world he didnt do it with a wand or dust as you say. You dont know exactly what caused the big bang theory, also it is a theory. Just because you have seen pics of what someone though Jesus looks like dont mean anything to me. Why would you think jesus would be dark skinned if you dont believe who cares right? I am not trying to make you believe I was curious as to why you dont believe. I undersstand that without allowing yourself to believe in God you will not be able to see that he exist. go ahead a blame everything on Science, but where do you think that came from.


----------



## Ranger_Compact

Hold up, wait a minute! Militant_Tiger, I just realized why you shouldn't be wasting time arguing with hill billy. Just look at his location! He is from, "Da South". Anyone with that as a location doesn't deserve a point of view, because it's always going to be their own. Also, notice that he realized I was right. That is the reason he responded to you, even though he was talking to me. You can definatly tell what his priorities are!


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> It took God 7 days to make the world he didnt do it with a wand or dust as you say.


He is all powerful, why not instantly?

You are so close minded that you can barely comprehend someone believing in anything but what you do.


----------



## hill billy

You have nothing informative to say regarding the subject for your lack of education in the matter. I had had total respect for you regarding your religion. I never once said you were right, you are completely wrong and you know it, that is the reason you want to switch the subject. I am from the south and proud of it. As far as talking to him and respnding to you I dotn know what you are talking about. I thought you could have a conversation as to why you believe there is no God but you have proved nothing to me. I believe you are and Atheist because it justifies your trashy lifestyle. Must be nice to go through with out any morales. You will see in the end.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> You have nothing informative to say regarding the subject for your lack of education in the matter.


I think you are wrong. Without proof your statement is meaningless.



> you are completely wrong and you know it, that is the reason you want to switch the subject.


How am I trying to change the subject? I am arguing religion. As to how I could be "wrong" on a matter of opinion, I do not know.



> I thought you could have a conversation as to why you believe there is no God but you have proved nothing to me. I believe you are and Atheist because it justifies your trashy lifestyle. Must be nice to go through with out any morales. You will see in the end.


To begin with, because you are trying to prove the existence of God, the burden of proof rests on you. As such, "tell me why there isn't a God" is not a valid argument.

Secondly, I am not an athiest, and if you took the time to read some of the posts instead of latching on to topics where you can Bible thump you might know that.

Third, who are you to judge my lifestyle? You have never met me, you do not know how I treat others, or what I do in my free time beyond frequenty this forum. Your assumptions are ridiculous, offensive and wrong.


----------



## hill billy

Again, I am not talking to you, so stop making it about you. I am talking to RC. Are you that retarded that you cant see that?


----------



## Ranger_Compact

That's the thing, because I have no religion, I have nothing to prove! You didn't prove to me that there is a god, any more than I proved there wasn't. I'm not wrong at all, I just don't believe in any god, except for Davey Havok. There you go, okay?! I believe in God, alright? It's just not yours, and at least he is living! My boyfriend has seen him up close, and I know he is there. What makes you think I have a trashy lifestyle? I'd like you to give me a reason as to why you think I live a trashy lifestyle. Go ahead, I'm waiting. Morals don't necessarily have to be Christian, I can still live by personal morals and most of the civil laws, even though some are bogus.


----------



## R y a n

Militant_Tiger said:


> Third, who are you to judge my lifestyle? You have never met me, you do not know how I treat others, or what I do in my free time beyond frequenty this forum. Your assumptions are ridiculous, offensive and wrong.


MT I think you are so entertaining. I believe everyone here would be willing to throw in $5 just to invite you to the NoDak Outdoors fishing tourney this year...as long as you were willing to sit down and have a debate in person with a couple of us here....

I bet we could raise the $$$ for a plane ticket pretty easily. The entertainment value alone to have you in a room to trade barbs back and forth would be well worth the "price of admission"



Ryan

.


----------



## Ranger_Compact

hill billy, if you re-read your post, you would see that it could have really gone either way to Militant_Tiger or myself. I think you are getting in too deep.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

hill billy said:


> Again, I am not talking to you, so stop making it about you. I am talking to RC. Are you that retarded that you cant see that?


Again this is a forum. Try to keep this public discussion civil.


----------



## NDTracer

RC I hear where your coming from and I truely want to do something for you, your comments are breaking my heart. I understand the situations in your life. If you would like some of your questions answered please PM me and I will give you the name of my pastor who knows alot more of the answers your looking for.

If your not comfortable with that then please let me offer you an open invitation to our church. I will buy you a donut and coffee there to eat/drink while you listen to a sermon.

That goes to anyone else who is reading and looking to know more and wants to try a church in Fargo.


----------



## hill billy

RC I apologize for the remarks I made. I guess I did get in a lil to deep I am sorry that was not the scope of this discussion. I understand you have your own beleifs as to what happened and is going to happen. I guess for you to respect mine I have to repsect yours. I am not apologizing because I think you are right or anything I just shouldnt have taken it this far. MT is a royal pain. I ignore him. I understand this is a public forum and if anybody wants to offer their two cents to anything I have written they may. I just ignore MT and act like he isnt even there. Not because I dismiss his Ideas because I feel they are wrong. I feel he is diagreeing to disagree. He is not trying to have any type of conversation he just wants attention. Anyway, I apologize for taking it so far, believe how you want.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> I feel he is diagreeing to disagree. He is not trying to have any type of conversation he just wants attention.


Your preconceptions are perpetually incorrect.

What makes my beliefs any different from RC's? We both disagree with you, yet you view her beliefs as real while mine are supposedly simply to cause trouble.


----------



## Ranger_Compact

Unless the name of your pastor is Davey Havok, forget about it. I tried church here in Fargo, I hated it, so my parents have quit forcing me to go to church. So now I sleep over at my boyfriend's apartment on Saturday nights, sleep in while some of you guys are at church. Then make breakfast and read the newspaper with him before his Sunday morning meeting at work. And spending that time with him, is more important to me than sitting in a pew, being preached at by some pastor. So have fun with your head buried in that bible/bulliten/song book, while I'm having a nice relaxing morning with my guy.


----------



## hill billy

Arent you scared to find out you are wrong and you will burn in hell?


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## Ranger_Compact

bushwacker, I mean...hill billy, you say you ignore him-yet you keep telling him you don't care what he has to say. Obviously you do want his reaction, because otherwise, you would be private messaging me. If anyone on here isn't a Christian, it would have to be all of you who don't respect Militant_Tiger. Another thing, forget about the apology. First of all, semi-sincere apologies come in the form of a private message. Also, that's another thing you don't know about me obviously. I don't believe in apologies and sorries. If someone was truly sorry, they wouldn't have done it in the first place. I don't forgive or forget, neither apply to me. I've rarely ever forgiven anyone in my life. Two people to be exact. I don't trust many people, only a certain few. You open yourself too much, and you'll only be struck down. Don't expect an apology from me, I have no respect for you after your pathetic actions.


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## Ranger_Compact

hill billy said:


> Arent you scared to find out you are wrong and you will burn in hell?


Well, I don't believe in hell, so I guess I can't burn in a place that is pretend. Did you spend too much time in the make believe room as a kid? After I die, I plan on nothing. What is wrong with that? Do you remember a time before you were born? I don't. So I won't have anything after I die either, and that doesn't scare me.


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## R y a n

hill billy said:


> RC you have yet to prove that there isnt a GOD. You talk evolution, so if we came from monkeys how come there are still monkeys. What caused the Big Bang theory? Somebody had to be doing the banging. Do you actually believe that all this world and universe just made itself one day . Even if we did evolve fro monkeys where did the monkeys come from? Night and day, explain all of that. Humans didnt just stand up one day and start walking around. I bet you believe that there was actually a first president named george washington dont you. Even though you cannot see him you believe he existed right.


Hill Billy,

I'll step in here and take on your challenge also if you will indulge me. I'm not certain which side of the fence I ultimately sit on this issue. I have feelings both ways, as I'm sure a majority of our readers do.

I have a problem with your methodology by which you are attacking R_C's position.



> RC you have yet to prove that there isnt a GOD.


You have yet to PROVE their IS a god Hill Billy. As MT stated, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it EXISTS. NOT R_C to prove it doesn't. With your approach to debate, one cannot win. From a religious perspective, we have to have FAITH that a higher power HAS to have existed to create man, the world as we know it etc... Asking R_C to prove a God doesn't exist invites alternative suggestions like she proposed including the Big Bang theory and/or evolution. You responded :



> You talk evolution, so if we came from monkeys how come there are still monkeys. What caused the Big Bang theory? Somebody had to be doing the banging. Do you actually believe that all this world and universe just made itself one day . Even if we did evolve fro monkeys where did the monkeys come from?


The big bang theory came from inter spacial chemical/physical reactions involving science.

You then asked:



> Night and day, explain all of that. Humans didnt just stand up one day and start walking around.


Night and day has to do with planetary rotation. Once again, physical science related to planets rotating around a very bright hot star....

Humans evolved along with all other carbon based life forms based on Billions of years of evolution and adaptation to the given environment of the rock they exist on. It could be debated that humans, monkeys, trees, water, everything we currently bear witness to, is the totality of that evolutionary process...



> I bet you believe that there was actually a first president named george washington dont you. Even though you cannot see him you believe he existed right


I believe George Washington existed because there are multiple verifiable references to prove his existence, the things he did are all possible given known scientifically agreed upon concepts. He was human possessing human characteristics. He did nothing that insinuated or supposed extra human powers.

Can you show me how God or Jesus can be related to those criteria?

I like playing the other side of this debate to... this is just one example of how an atheist could refute your logic. Please provide better logic and examples telling me how God absolutely did exist. I want to have a certain understanding of his existence and am seeking the truth.

Regards,

Ryan

.


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## adokken

Why don't you bible thumbers leave the young lady alone, she is not trying to convert you so why do you think it is your duty to convert her to your Beliefs.As far as believing in burning in hell. That place better have a lot of room, that if such a place exists. unless my interpretation of the bible is wrong.


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## buckseye

can billions of people be wrong for thousands of years, I think not. God is Devine but without us, his children, he too has nothing. We are God's Glorious creation and he takes great Joy in our learning to serve him and spread Jesus word's of Forgiveness.


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## Militant_Tiger

> can billions of people be wrong for thousands of years, I think not.


If popularity and longevity are the only defining features of a great idea, I suppose the world is still flat.


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## Ranger_Compact

The word "rumor" was invented for a reason you know, I'd apply it here.


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## buckseye

good point MT. And that fact was proved to be true by human explorers just as the Biblical facts are proved to be true by human archaeologists. Or should we just be selective which scientific profession we believe. The Earth is round and the archaeological findings are real, both great discoveries through time.


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## Ranger_Compact

Whoopty-do! The bible isn't 100% lies, I guess. But I'd say about 95% is.


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## Militant_Tiger

> And that fact was proved to be true by human explorers just as the Biblical facts are proved to be true by human archaeologists.


The idea that the world was flat was proven false by explorers.

As to the Bible, do not take the stories as true simply because it speaks of places and things that exist. Certainly I could write a story about how my house built itself, but the existence of my house makes that story no more true. If you wish to believe in the stories in the Bible, do so, but not for this reason.


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## hill billy

Well the discssion of religion is a never ending battle. Neither side will ever win. You just have to ask yourself, do you think that if it is all made up that it would be spread out all over the world and studied for thousands of years. Wouldnt it be better to believe and find out you were wrong than not to believe and find out you were wrong? I mean if you worship all your life and die and find out there is nothing afterwards what have you lost. But if you dont worship all your life and then die to find out there is something. Some people abuse the word Atheism, simply by using it to justify rebeling from their parents. Some spoilt kid that dont want to go to church says oh I am an athiest. Just think if atheist ran this country it would be okay to kill and rob banks and just do anything you want. I am not going to argue with some trashy chick about religion cause I hope she thinks its funny when I am in the church worshipping cause I am going to laugh my *** of when she burns in hell.


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## Plainsman

I just got home, and have been reading through some of the posts. I am disappointed that it has again returned to name calling. I suppose I will be forced to lock some threads, and that is perhaps the goal of some people.
I can read the frustration in the words many of you have. The saddest part is we have lost the mainstream liberals that we enjoyed talking with. I would guess it is in the fear that when anger is prevalent in posts that they will be attacked for their views. 
Radical liberals and radical conservatives are useful in that they showcase the extreme of each side that we all must be watchful of. It is a detracts greatly from the site, but as long as no one is calling names I can't curtail freedom of speech. 
Perhaps S F Rude has the answer. I like to talk with nearly everyone, but I am afraid there are people who do not want us to find common ground between liberals and conservatives. As sportsmen and women I would have thought us bound together by sincere concern for the second amendment, but evidently that isn't true for everyone. We are united when PETA type people post on here, but in the political arena some are successful in driving a wedge between sportsmen. I miss tailchaser, bigdaddy, and many of the others. When we are honest with one another and find common ground we can call our representatives and say with some pride that on this form we have accomplished agreement. 
I will, I am afraid, be forced to lock some threads. My apologies to those who have kept a cool head, and also to those frustrated. I understand the frustration, but must lock some, and possibly edit or delete, I don't know I have not read through all of them as of yet.


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