# Savage 112 6.5X284 norma. Need advice



## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

I came across a coulple of NIB 12 BVSS chambered in 6.5-284 listed at $599.99. Ive been stuck on getting a 6.5mm for awhile now and have been leaning towards the 260rem until thisrifle showed up. Basically I'm looking for the pro's and cons of both calibers. I understand I can always switch the barrel out into another caliber if I wanted. I guess what I'm looking for is someone to justify a reason to make the purchase.

Knutson


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

6.5X284 is a very good performer, the BVSS is very nice looking and feels good at the shoulder, you can switch barrels, what more do you need????


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

About the only thing I am apprehensive about is the cost of ammo/ reloading supplies compared to the 260. Your right it is a very good looking rifle the store acutually had two of them the other one was chambed in 25-06 and $100 more for some reason.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

If cost will bother you, don't get it. Not worth thinking about every time you go to shoot, or purchase supplies. Just pick up a new Savage in .260. But, then you might be paying a few hundred more for the new rifle, and a few hundred can buy a lot of reloading supplies!

Bullets are the same, primers are the same, powder is the same(just use a little more in the 6.5X284), dies are basically the same,(and only one time purchase) so that leaves brass. If you buy high quality brass you are looking at basically the same prices too. Norma .260 is more expensive than 6.5X284 on Midway. So really, you have nothing to worry about.


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

ya I suppose your right I think I was just trying to convince myself even though I pretty much already had my mind made. Now I just need to convince my other half.

Savage what kind of turn around did you have wet you sent your bolt out to SSS? I don't remember from your post but did you have your reciever timed and trued also?


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I don't remember how long it took for the bolt, sorry. SSS is hit and miss for getting things done quickly. After reading a bit on the T&T it seems most say it isn't needed because of the floating bolt head. So no, I didn't have it done.


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

Well I went ahead and made the purchase still need to order some brass and what not to get some loads made up. Does anyone know if the 6.5x284 was a standard chambering in the 112? Everything I have found so far doesn't list it as one. The box the rifle came in calls it a 112 and serial #'s on the rifle but the barrel is stamped model 12. Just kind of curious.

Knutson


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

Ok. I think I got it figured out. I did a little searching on the savageshooters page and came up with this explanation.

It is indeed a long action. Savage never made a 6.5-284 on a long action in a large production run, only short actions. That is the reason the barrel is roll stamped "Model 12 cal. 6.5-284 Norma". It is because that is the only roll stamp they have that is the correct caliber.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Lots o good info on that site!


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

Well started the work up on some load for my rifle then everything came to a screeching halt. I was finding the C.O.A.L and came up with 3.150" with the bullet just touching the lands. This seemed a bit long to me being my reloading manual has the C.O.A.L listed at 2.800" or 2.85" don't remember for sure and I don't have my manual handy as im currently at work. Does this number seem a bit long to anyone else that reloads for the 6.5X284?

Any help is appreciated.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

My best accuracy load(so far) is at 2.983 COAL and 3.478 ogive on my Hornady bullet comp and caliper. I am not sure how far off the lands I am, but It is probably about 3.000 at the lands. Just a guess, I will have to check my notes.


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

Now I'm really confused. I just used my hornady comp and caliper that I picked up today and I get an OAL of the ogive of 2.556". How come my OAL off my ogive is lower than my COAL and yours is the opposite? Are you able to zero your caliper completely out or is the thickness of the hornady comp included in your OAL off the ogive?


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Mine includes the length of the comp body. I am using a dial caliper. I am using Lapua brass trimmed to suggested length, and 140gr SMKs. If you are using different bullets your COAL might be some what longer, or shorter.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

No your numbers don't appear long. I was thinking the same thing when I started reloading for my Cooper a month ago. The 140 gr Berger VLD look real long. 
Check this site: http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html The loads from this site will give you 100 to 200 fps over other powders, and group under .2 inches. The article was spot on. My bolt was slightly sticky with 51 gr. At 50.6 I could still identify a mark left from the ejector. At 50.4 I had no pressure sign and 3005 fps out of my 26 inch barrel ( I may have to reduce that load when temperatures go up next summer). The range they gave was 48 to 51 grains. 
Oh, I should mention you will have to load lower with Lapua brass. I can only get 2925 with Lapua brass. Evidently it is softer, or annealed more overall and pressure signs show up early. Everywhere on the internet people say buy Lapua brass. A hundred cases cost me $119 at Midway, but I see they are on sale now for $107. I bought some Winchester 284 at Scheels for $31.99 for fifty cases, sized and turned them to .014 neck thickness and annealed. Both the Lapua and the Winchester group right around .14 to .18 inches. Off the bipod at 16X I can't shoot any better than that. Maybe it shows up in 1000 yard matches or something I don't know. 
I called Cooper and that nice tight group they send with every rifle is shot with R22. It was accurate, but 2825 was maxed out velocity for me. In my search for powder I did find that Accurate Arms Magpro and Ramshot Magnum are the same powders. They didn't give me as much velocity, and they were the only powders I tried that didn't give me good accuracy.


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

Savage260 said:


> Mine includes the length of the comp body. I am using a dial caliper. I am using Lapua brass trimmed to suggested length, and 140gr SMKs. If you are using different bullets your COAL might be some what longer, or shorter.


 Oh ok that makes sense then. my OAL off the ogive doesn't include the length of the comp body. I guess with or with out that included in the measurement shouldn't make a difference as long as you consistely measure of the ogive.

Plainsman thank you for the link on the R17 article. I had been to that website a few times reading the 6.5x284 info page but never stumbled across that article.

On a different note the test rifle used in my hornady loading manual owas only a 24" barrel and according to the literature had a very short throat. I imagine this would explain the differance in the COAL between mine and the manuals atleast to some extent.

I'm not new to reloading I use to just reload to save money on hunting bullets, but now that I have the 6.5 I really want to try and squeeze every bit of accuracy out of it that I can.Thanks for the help on everything. I'm sure I'll probably have more questions as time goes by.

v/r

Knutson


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plainsman thank you for the link on the R17 article. I had been to that website a few times reading the 6.5x284 info page but never stumbled across that article.


It was the best I could find after weeks of searching.

It was tough shooting today. When I laid down with the short bipod the 100 yard target disappear in the blowing snow. I still had some slight pressure with one round loaded with 50.4 gr. Maybe I will have to back off to 50.2 gr. I think that would be around 2950 fps. I'll chronograph it tomorrow. My target was 2900 fps so anything over that is gravy to me.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

knutson24, well one thing I have found is you can move the SGK, and SMK back and fourth from the lands and still have good accuracy. The Berger VLD are more picky. Yesterday I shot 50.2 gr of R17. My velocity was 2970. I loaded three .002 from the lands, three .004 from the lands, three .008 from the lands and three .012 from the lands. The group .002 from the lands I didn't even shoot. I started furthest from the lands in the event pressure built as I approached the lands. The .004 grouped approximately 1.50 inches, and the .012 grouped .75 inches. The .008 grouped .23 inch. Velocity was about the same on all of them.

I expected less pressure with the bullet further from the lands, and more pressure closer to the lands. There was no perceptible pressure difference in .008 and .012, but at .004 pressure did start to rise, and noticeably. In the Cooper I notice any pressure at all very quick. The ejector has a very weak spring. I guess that's so your brass falls in a nice little pile right next to the action. Anyway, what I see as a first sign of pressure is not a shiny spot from the ejector, but an impression from the bolt ejector hole. I have not loaded hot enough to see any primer cratering, but at the top end I did see the base of the brass show some shine, and sticky extraction.

I think I have settled on that load of 50.2 gr of R17, and .008 back from the lands. I worried about the 50.4 being a little hot when shot in 90 degree weather.


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

Plainsman, you sir are a braver soul than I. Its way to cold to be laying out in the snow and shoot groups. However I did use the time I've spent in the house to load up some rounds. I ordered some Nosler brass from midway and was really impressed with the nosler brass. It came chamfered with primer holes drilled not punched and all peices where within + or - .5gns of the thier average weight. I loaded up 5rds each using R17 starting at 48gn and working my way up to 51gn in 1gn increments for a total of 20rds with the 142 SMK's seated .002 into the lands. Also did 15rd of 140gn SST's at 47gn seated .010 out of the lands to use to get on paper being I just got the scope remounted on a 20moa single piece base. I read an article sometime back can't rember the site at this time, bu tit recommended loading into the lands to find your max/accurate load and then adjust your seating depth to improve the accuracy. I guess by doing it this way since your already .002 into the lands as you work your way out and away from the lands you know you won't experience any pressure signs. Sounds logical to me hope it works.

On side note the SST's look really weird with thier cannelure sticking about a 1/4" out of the case.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I read in an article somewhere recently about that guy loading into the lands. I would think that would create an awful lot of pressure. As I mentioned I am .008 from the lands with no pressure, but when I approach to .004 the pressure is noticeable. I didn't even dare shoot the .002 from the lands. The bench rest guys who shoot in the lands must have some very slow loads they are using. Wear shooting glasses and a face mask both when you touch those off. Better yet try the old muzzle loader trick. Strap your rifle to a spare tire, tie a string to the trigger, and trip it from 100 yards.


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

I did some searching and found these paragraphs on one of the forms at snipershide. Pretty sure this is what I had read awhile back.

"Lastly- one final note and word of caution. Now that we know at what measurement OFF THE OGIVE our bullet -touches- the riflings, we will start our load development .010" jammed into the riflings. That is .010" LONGER than the dimension we figured up through this described process. That number was just touching the riflings. Most rifles like to be about .010" in ("Jammed") This is the OAL we will start our powder make & charge test's with. (Next chapter.)

However it is IMPERATIVE you understand the following. On occasion the rifle will prefer a different bullet/rifling relation. Perhaps it be .015" jammed, or .030" out of the rifling totally or .030" "jump." But START ALL LOAD WORK JAMMED! This is because in the next chapter we are going to learn what actual MAX load for this rifle is with a given powder and this bullet. Being jammed into the riflings increases pressure! So as long as we learn our max powder charge while jammed, we are okay. HOWEVER, if we were to (think we) learn(ed) what max charge was without our bullet jammed and then jam it into the riflings, coupled with a max powder charge in search of a most accurate bullet setting we could blow up our rifle, loose both our eyes, our hearing a good portion of our face and destroy the rifle- that is if we come out of it alive. That all sounds scary, which is a good thing."

Maybe I should load up a few more rounds starting at 46gn and work my way up in .5gn increments?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think that is the same one I read. I don't know it violates everything I have ever heard about reloading. I would think a bullet jammed into the rifling with a normal load of powder would react about the same as a barrel obstruction. Hmmm, I don't know, but be very careful.
I also read one from a bench rest shooter talking about the same thing, but his loads were loaded way way down, and required different powders. If memory serves me that was in a 6mmBR.

Maybe someone on here has had some experience with bullets loaded into the rifling. Anyone????


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

I think he says to work in .5 increments and start low as you will find your max pressure load with it in the lands. By doing it this way the thinking is you wont find max pressure then adjust your load longer and get a surprise. i read that on to it is in the reloading section could print all them out and make a good presicion reloading book


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## knutson24 (Feb 16, 2009)

Ok I decided to error on the side of caution. I pulled all the bullets on the ammo I loaded previously just to be on the safe side. I now will be doing a ladder test starting at 46.5gn and working my way up to 51.0 gns in 0.5 gn increments with the bullets seated 0.010 into the lands. I will then shoot all bullets at 200yds with same point of aim starting with the lowest charge and work my way up. At the first signs of any pressure I will then stop make note of which charge it was and select that as my max charge. I will also note any accuracy nodes during the ladder test and then begin further testing with bullet seating depth working my way out until the bullet is being jumped in to the lands.

I reread the entire series of forums and I believe I where I went wrong. First I was not starting with a low enough charge and second I was not working in small enough increments.

The only question I have now is does everyone think 46.5gn is low enough to be a starting point in this test?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Kurt, what do you think about the guys comments about "jammed into the lands"? The furthest forward I have ever read before is "just touching the lands".


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

i guess i really dont know as the chamber on my rem is 2.952 way to long to get close to the lands. If it was me i dont think i would want much more than just touching but i have alot to learn about reloading. Usally some one with alot more knowledge than me will call some one out on the hide if the put some thing wrong. i can see his theory behind finding the max load with it jammmed as you move back presure will decrease. After reading the how ladder test works i used that method and like how that worked out found and high medium and low acuracy node. went with the middle one just to get more out of my brass and did not see to much advantage to running right at the max and its nice not having to worry about the hot summer heat. i might have missed it but how close are you running the bergers i tried the 155 in my 308 and could not get them to shoot worth a darn unless i made it a single shot which is not what i really wanted


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have my 140 Bergers set at .008 from the lands. I am running close to max and I can notice the pressure go up when I set them at .004.

I have 150 VLD in my 270 also. I have not measured where they are set. I loaded the first bunch and pushed it to 3000+ and they grouped .5 inch. I just left everything the way it was because I was satisfied.

I loaded some 185 VLD in my 300 Win Mag, and didn't get good accuracy until I reduced the load to 3100 fps. I didn't see pressure until I was over 3200 fps. Now that I have a bullet comparator and better dies I am going to try get accuracy at 3200 fps again.

Everything I read on the internet says Bergers want to be close to the lands.


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