# Wis Hmong Hunter Murdered



## Leo Porcello

Sheriff says Hmong hunter was murdered 
POSTED: 7:08 p.m. EST, January 8, 2007 
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MARINETTE, Wisconsin (AP) -- In a case that could further expose racial tensions between white residents and Asian immigrants here, a local sheriff said a Hmong man found dead in the woods Saturday was murdered.

An "accidental meeting" between Cha Vang, 30, and another hunter, James Nichols, 28, led to Vang's death, Marinette County Sheriff Jim Kanikula said Monday.

Kanikula would not specify the cause of death.

"While there is much I would like to tell you, there is much I cannot tell you," Kanikula said. Criminal charges will be filed this week, and Nichols is the suspect, he added.

The death comes little more than a year after Hmong immigrant Chai Soua Vang, 38, was sentenced to life in prison for killing six and injuring two white hunters in 2004. He claimed one of them fired a shot in his direction after they shouted racial epithets and cursed at him.

Chai Soua Vang is serving multiple life terms. He is not related to Cha Vang.

Kanikula said he did not know if the shooting was accidental or if it was a hate crime.

Vang's body was found partially concealed in a wildlife area. His wife has said he spoke little English and was unlikely to have started an argument or provoked an attack.

Deputies arrested Nichols after he showed up at a medical center with a single, non-life threatening gunshot wound. Kanikula said Nichols was being held for a probation violation as a felon in possession of a firearm.


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## gonehuntin'

Sounds like payback. Ain't much of a loss.


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## Leo Porcello

Ya tell his wife and 5 kids that. :eyeroll: I guess now when another Hmong shoots some white hunter we can just chalk it up to payback. :roll:


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## Leo Porcello

more info:

Hunter's death a homicide, unknown if hate crime

By E.A. Torriero
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 8, 2007, 8:05 PM CST

Wisconsin authorities Monday ruled the death of a Hmong hunter a homicide but said they did not know if it was a hate crime.

Cha Vang, 30, a Green Bay man and father of five, was found dead Saturday morning in a water fowl area in northeastern Wisconsin known as prime hunting grounds for small prey. His body was covered with leaves and some timber. He was shot, family friends said.

Marinette County Sheriff James Kanikula said at an afternoon press conference that the murder weapon was recovered and a suspect - James Nichols, 28, of Peshtigo, Wis. - was being held on a parole violation. Charges could be filed this week, the sheriff said. Saying investigators had built "a compelling case," Kanikula said the homicide came after "an accidental meeting" between the two men. Investigators would not say what may have happened to trigger a shooting.

"The person in custody we believe is the responsible person to be talking to at this time in Vang's death," the sheriff said of Nichols, a convicted burglar. Asked if Nichols confessed, Kanikula said he "has been cooperative up to this point."

"We are in possession of the weapon or weapons involved," Kanikula said.

He declined to provide details, saying that state Atty. Gen. J.B. Van Hollen had advised him not to say how Vang died until criminal charges are filed. Kanikula referred questions to the attorney general's office in Madison, which declined to comment.

The murder is eerily reminiscent of a deadly shooting in 2004 in northwestern Wisconsin when a Hmong hunter killed six white hunters in a racially charged incident. Chai Soua Vang, 38, - no relation to Cha Vang - is serving multiple life sentences for the killings.

The fallout from last weekend's shooting was felt across the Midwest, home to the largest number of Hmong refugees outside of California.

Since the 2004 murders, tensions have run high among Hmong and hunters in Wisconsin of non-Hmong descent. State wildlife officials said Hmong men, who have a long hunting tradition, have been fearful of going alone into the woods. The Hmong are an ethnic group with roots in Southeast Asia, notably Laos and Thailand.

The latest incident only heightens tensions, say Wisconsin Hmong leaders.

"This is only going to make it harder for the Hmong people to get out and do what they love and have done in their culture for centuries," said Bill Campbell, a retiree in Sturgeon Bay who has volunteered for years with Hmong resettlement projects.

Campbell, who spent much of Sunday with the Vang family, said relatives are devastated. The Vangs arrived some 2 ? years ago from a refugee camp in Southeast Asia where they lived for most of their lives. Vang spoke little English and was attending classes to pursue a vocation, Campbell said.

"He and his wife were just starting to feel like they had made it in America and now he's gone," Campbell said in a telephone interview.

Yia Thao, president of the United Hmong Community Center in Green Bay, said it is important for the community to find out if the motivation behind the murder was hate.

"They need answers," he said.

According to Thao and sheriff's reports, Vang and three hunters of Hmong descent set out to hunt Friday afternoon in a well-known refuge about an hour's drive from Green Bay. Armed with .22-caliber rifles and wearing camouflage, they separated into pairs to better track squirrels and raccoons as prey.

Because he knew the hunting grounds well, Vang split from his partner and promised to rejoin him later at the end of a dirt road. His three friends recall hearing shots ring out - from a shotgun not a rifle, they said. They later heard a rifle shot.

After sunset, the three hunters returned to their cars hoping to find Vang. When he didn't show up, they called 911.

"He is familiar with this place," hunter Pao Moua told a sheriff's dispatcher.

Shortly before 8 p.m., rescuers began an intensive search of the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife Area where Vang was last seen.

Meanwhile, authorities received a telephone call from the Bay Area Medical Center where a man, later identified as Nichols, arrived with a suspected *self-inflicted *gunshot wound in his hand. He was detained after receiving treatment and a sheriff's deputy arrived.

The search ended at 1:30 a.m. Saturday and resumed at 7:45 a.m. Vang's body was found a half-hour later.

At the King of Clubs Grill in Peshtigo, beneath an apartment that Nichols occupied for the last six months, owner Tammy VanAcker said she couldn't believe that hate may have provoked Nichols.

"He doesn't have a mean bone in his body," she said in a telephone interview. "He's been in here with people of color and I never saw him talk like that."

Friends of Vang doubt that he could have caused a confrontation.

"He couldn't have expressed himself that well in English," Campbell said.

[email protected]


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## jgat

Wow, how horrible. That story leaves me with a sick feeling in my stomach. I feel so bad for the kids!


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## MSG Rude

gonehuntin' said:


> Sounds like payback. Ain't much of a loss.


ALL human life is a loss when taken like this. This isn't the old West partner. IF he was shot in retaliation because of the other event then that is a hate crime and needs to be treated as such.

Lets see what the rest of the story is when it comes out before we judge.

:eyeroll:


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## Habitat Hugger

Gonehuntin I can't believe you would even think that, much less post it! You ruined my day! I thought my fellow hunters were a better class of people than that!

The only think I hate is hatred!


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## djleye

Sad statement on the type of person you are GH!!!!!!!!! :eyeroll:


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## swift

A statement like gonehuntin's should be turned over to the authorities for an investigation into possible hate crimes.

You know a white male named James Duncan killed a family, kidnapped two little kids repeatedly raping them while the other watched then killed the little boy. That doesn't make all White males killers. What individuals do is not reflective on a race.

Gonehuntin you should see somebody for all that hate you have bottled up inside you before you commit the next tragedy.


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## h2ofwlr

Oh my, what a bunch of Politically Correct people we have here. :roll: GH spoke his opinion, he is entitled to it, just like you are entitled to yours. You may not agree with his. Just like he may not agree with yours. But we all are entitled to voice our opinion without being personally bashed.

_
Vang spoke little English _

So why on earth does a person that does not speak any english, which means he very likely does not read english either, is doing with a valid hunting lic? Think about it, how come he (or anyone), that not being able the understand the hunting laws, have a hunting license? Or for that matter, the civil laws, like speed limit signs? IMO until one can understand the regulations, they should not have a drivers or hunting or fishing lic. Our own kids born here have to take hunter safety classes. And many states if born after a certain date, you as a 1st time hunter must pass the hunter safety course. Why does this not also apply to immigrants? How could he pass the course if he did not understand English? Think about it.

I have seen inperson way too many flagrant violations by Hmong in Mn for 30 years now. And been told by others of seeing the same thing when they are outdoors too. For example; Walleye and Bass being kept before the season opened, informing them that it is not legal to keep them, and getting "me no understand english" shpeel. Interesting when you dump the bucket of illegal fish back into the lake they started talking English!  They also undstood enough English to know what INS meant when I said I am calling the INS as they will ship them all back for breaking the law---you should have seen them scramble and head out in their cars. :rollin: And many other law abiding hunters and fishermen have seen the same type of flagrant violations of the law by immigrants not understanding the law, or understanding and hiding behind the 'me speak no English' BS. So the point is, they should not be able to get a lic until they prove they understand the laws. What is is good enough for us citizens born here, should be good enough for immigrants regardless of race or nationallity.

Who knows, maybe if this guy had spoke and understood some English, he'd be alive today. But regardless of the circumstances, one certainly has to feel for his family, as 5 kids lost their father.


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## upland420

h2ofwlr said:


> Oh my, what a bunch of Politically Correct people we have here. :roll: GH spoke his opinion, he is entitled to it, just like you are entitled to yours. You may not agree with his. Just like he may not agree with yours. But we all are entitled to voice our opinion without being personally bashed.
> 
> Who knows, maybe if this guy had spoke and understood some English, he'd be alive today.


The "opinion" in question is VILE and HATE FILLED. Thankfully, others have felt the need to say so. When you post such nauseating garbage you need to be taken to task for it. Your need to defend his HATE FILLED nonsense and chide others for pointing it out says plenty about you. In fact your entire post isnt too far removed from his.

That last comment by you removes all doubt of how ignorant you really are. Just how would speaking English have kept this PUNK (convicted FELON) from shooting him? Perhaps you mean he could have pleaded for his life and articulately convey that he had 5 kids at home?

Unless you are NATIVE AMERICAN chances are your grand father or great grandfather came over here as a NON English speaking immigrant. Take a while and think about THAT.


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## Maverick

> So why on earth does a person that does not speak any english, which means he very likely does not read english either, is doing with a valid hunting lic? Think about it, how come he (or anyone), that not being able the understand the hunting laws, have a hunting license? Or for that matter, the civil laws, like speed limit signs? IMO until one can understand the regulations, they should not have a drivers or hunting or fishing lic. Our own kids born here have to take hunter safety classes. And many states if born after a certain date, you as a 1st time hunter must pass the hunter safety course. Why does this not also apply to immigrants? How could he pass the course if he did not understand English? Think about it.


A lot of truth their!!!!!To each their own...... :eyeroll: 
With the recent events that have happened in WI I think it is time something changes, otherwise the past will become the future, which it is already showing!


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## Lil Sand Bay

h2ofwlr:

Let me see if I've got this right....
You're saying that it may have been the murder victims fault based on your personal observations of wildlife violations, over thirty years, by other individuals who share the same race.

Yeh, I know what that kind of thinking that's called!


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## gonehuntin'

Wish the fish bit as readily as you guys do


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## MossyMO

It is called racial or nationality profiling, everyone of every nationality subconsciously does it.

I have a feeling this is going to get worse in Wisconsin.


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## Maverick

I believe you all have him wrong! He is saying that if he cannot read the PROCLAMATION should he have a liscense. I think NO!!! Not the Hmongs fault but the fault of society for allowing him to hunt when he doesn't know the rules!


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## Lil Sand Bay

For many years the MDNR, h2ofwlr's home state, and more recently because of last years tragedy, the WDNR have done extensive outreach with their Hmong communities, to address just these concerns, since the hmong do not historically have a writen language.

h20'er has no idea what the victim understood, or didn't, but shared with us anyway; which is exactly my point.


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## PSDC

This is a growing problem for states like Minnesota and Wisconsin
with one of the largest Hmong population in the United States.
Should the states be catering to the Hmong population by printing
Hmong proclamations? Should the individual be responsible to 
read and comprehend the english language if residing in the 
United States?


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## Maverick

> h20'er has no idea what the victim understood, or didn't, but shared with us anyway; which is exactly my point.


 Nor do you, so it could be a valid point!! The english language could have been his saving grace. You don't know, and I don't know, but I do know that it would have helped the situation. Not hurt it!



> For many years the MDNR, h2ofwlr's home state, and more recently because of last years tragedy, the WDNR have done extensive outreach with their Hmong communities, to address just these concerns, since the hmong do not historically have a writen language.


Well it seems that they need to do something differently, because things are getting worse!


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## Eric Hustad

Not much of a loss huh? Tell that to the kids that now grow up with no father, and what did they do to deserve that? Stupid comment....


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Watch the personal attacks gang....I know it's controversial, but remember to attack the opinion and not the man.

Thanks.


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## h2ofwlr

Lil Sand Bay said:


> h20'er has no idea what the victim understood, or didn't, but shared with us anyway; which is exactly my point.


And you do? :roll: Based upon the articles, he did not speak English. So is it possible the lack of communication added to the event of his killing? Maybe, maybe not. More will be revealed as the investigation unfolds. But likely the whole truth will never be known as to what exactly happened. I sincerely doubt he deserved to die. Unless Vang took a shot at the other guy. Then it is justifiable homicide. But that is unlikely, as the body was hidden.

As for communication. Look at how many have gotten their undies in a bundle and we all speak and write english. :-?

Maybe the timing of bringing up communications with immigrants is poor timing. But many, many outdoorsmen have seen immigrants breaking the laws and as pointed out stepped up education has helped. The point is more needs to be done.

The murder is really a seperate issue. And I do not condone murder, never have.

Crucify me all you want for mixing the 2 issues, but I'll take a non PC stand on some common sense needs to be applied on all immigrants for hunting, fishing and civil licenses. They should have the same laws applied to them as us citizens, simple as that. And that is MO.


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## swift

How can you racially motivated hate mongers try to put a spin on this to make it the victims fault. Not one place was it reported Mr Vang was doing anything illegal. In fact the press release says he hunted this place often and was familiar with it. Another thing in the press release said the alledged shooter was illegal in his activity by possessing a firearm being a convicted felon. It scares the crap out of me to know that you guys have guns in your hands with so much hate bottled up inside of you. And another thing is Mr Vang was from GREEN BAY about as far east of Minneapolis you can get in Wisconsin. Calling it pay back for an incident that happened 200+ away shows your idiocy.


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## DJRooster

I am against breaking game laws. However, I don't see where this guy broke any game laws nor do I see any reason why he should be shot because he doesn't speak English. Can you believe some are insinuating that he got what he deserved? I wish they were talking about the white guy getting what he deserved! This is bad stuff and some people are even defending the racist remarcks!!  :eyeroll: uke: Geez, if there ever was a thread that should be locked, Chris??????


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## MSG Rude

What people are not keeping in mind is the facts....THERE ARE NONE RIGHT NOW...except that there is a SUSPECT in custody and a MAN IS DEAD. Those are the facts.

The other garbage posted here about personal beliefs and opinions is just that, garbage.

Wait for the facts to come out folks before you cast the first stone.


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## Maverick

> How can you racially motivated hate mongers try to put a spin on this to make it the victims fault


I hope you are not talking about me here. I am going off of *facts* in the article....uhhhuumm...


> "He couldn't have expressed himself that well in English," Campbell said.


Here is an ethical question. Do we allow people who cannot read our own proclamation to hunt (doesn't matter if they are Hmong/Somalian/Hispanic), and error on the side of ignorance? Cause that's what I am talking about. No racism...just facts!!!

Just to let you all know if you read racism in my post, you are interpreting it that way, as I am not writing it that way. Just valid questions.


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## swift

Maverick I do read racism into your posts. You have made a judgement based on a persons race. If he was a white male would you assume he must have been illiterate and couldn't read the proclamation? All you have to do is spend a short time on this website to see many, many intelligent and literate people ask questions about something covered in the proclamation. Because they don't know the rules is it okay to murder them?

Beside that what does hunting for small game on a public hunting area and getting murdered have to do with not being able to read the hunting regulations? Just by going down that road shows a racial component.


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## swift

To your ethical question Maverick. If you were unable to read due to illiteracy or dislexia or non english speaking and you applied for a drivers license an agent must read the test to you in a manner that you can understand the questions. That is the law under the ADA. Why would that be any different for hunting regulations?

So it IS ethical for nonenglish speaking people to partake in the same activities that english speaking people are entitled too.

BUT

Not speaking english is not a defense to not following the rules set forth by the governmental agencies.


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## Maverick

Now swift you are interpreting it that way! I am not being as you said " a hate monger" which is a personal attack at me then. If you read it that way it is your own fault, not mine, just let it be told the way you are saying it is not what I am being, I am not being a racist just a *realist*. Racism would be me calling them all worthless and good for nothing. I am saying that if you can't read a proclamation, maybe you shouldn't be hunting!!!!! Doesn't matter if your white/black/purple. You are actually being racist by insnuating that I am!!!



> Because they don't know the rules is it okay to murder them?


 What I am reading is that since they don't know our language or rules (because they can't read them) it is ok for them to hunt. Which is ignorance!!

How is that being a racist? :eyeroll:


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## Jungda99

I wish we could enfore that they must read English to get a license but that would mean that English would have to be the USAs offical language. The USA doen'st have an official language so we don't have a leg to stand on to get that law passed. Oh how I wish we could, I work with non-english speaking people everyday and would give anything to understand what they are saying.


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## gonehuntin'

Well, I resent being called a hate monger. I would make the same statement about a gang member or a drug dealer getting killed. I don't think any of you North Dakotan's have any idea of what a Hmong is or the problems the states they live in face. Like these: They are brought here, can't read or write english and are put on welfare until they can. They are issued drivers licenses without being able to read the english language. They are issued hunting and fishing licenses without any testing or without being able to understand english. Our gang crime has risen something like 800% since they brought them here. "They" being a church. They don't know what fish and game limits are and what they can hunt and fish for. When checked by wardens in the field, their bags contain robbins, sparrow, squirrel, chipmunk; anything that crawls, walks, or flies. They have no hunting or fishing ethics. We see them with stringers of smallmouth bass in the spring they take from the beds. Any size fish is kept. One murdered six deer hunters on their land here a couple years ago. Another this fall pointed his riffle at a landowner and tried to drive the landowner off HIS land. Now this. You wonder why we dislike Hmongs? If you like them so much we'll give you the whole batch free. They should do well in North Dakota. You guys should know what you're speaking of before you "hate mongers" discharge your load on other people. Please, invite the whole community out to live with you. We in Wi. would be very pleased by your generous act.


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## swift

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAVERICK SAID...
I believe you all have him wrong! He is saying that if he cannot read the PROCLAMATION should he have a liscense. I think NO!!! Not the Hmongs fault but the fault of society for allowing him to hunt when he doesn't know the rules!

Not the Hmongs fault but society???? It is the fault of the person that killed him? This whole topic is about a man that was shot and killed. Not one place did you call this victim a man or a person. All of your descriptions of him are "the Hmong"

Or are you saying he wouldn't have gotten shot if he wasn't allowed to go hunting? I still don't know what one has to do with the other.


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## djleye

GH, You think ND doesn't have immigrants??? 
Because you don't like them, they should be killed??? That is what Hitler thought about a race/religion of people as well. :eyeroll:


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## MossyMO

Immigrants to America generally tend to live by the laws and culture of their home country. It is the Americans fault for giving them citizenship to the United States before we have properly educated them on the laws of our country. 
For them to understand our laws fully, should we be required to teach them to speak, read and write in the English language before we give them citizenship? For immigrants to fully understand our laws they should know how to communicate with others citizens to understand the laws in the United States.
If we are required to this, are we now discriminating against race?
Educating immigrants would be for their own safety and for the safety of current United States citizens.


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## PSDC

MossyMo,

Well put, the United States Government feels we owe the Hmong
refugees citizenship due to all the atrocities that happened 
during and after the Vietnam conflict. Hum.....do I forsee
this same conversation occurring in 10 to 20 years with the 
Iraqi refugees??? Wait and see!


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## Eric Hustad

For God's sake how many clowns make news for game violations each year and these guy's are white and literate I assume. If it is small game lets say and you are after squirrels how hard is it to tell someone where you can shoot and how many. He had been out before and there hadn't been a problem reported.

I too have heard about Hmong cleaning out lakes by taking too many fish etc. Well after living here my whole life I have seen a lot worse from whites either from here or visiting. We have our share who go over limits, think that they can still live like settlers 150 years ago and live off game etc. Now since there are still facts to be determined but just because the guy was Hmong did he deserve to die? He can't be worse than some of the sh*t you run into hunting here that are white. :eyeroll:


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## gonehuntin'

djleye said:


> GH, You think ND doesn't have immigrants???
> Because you don't like them, they should be killed??? That is what Hitler thought about a race/religion of people as well. :eyeroll:


I absolutely do not think that. I simply am not sympathetic to them in the least. If we're looking at whose at fault, beside the guy that pulled the trigger, I would place it on the church for bringing them here and our government for accepting them without requireing them to be fluent in our language and customs. They are causing tremendous problems here. Is everyone so sure the Hmong, whose name was also Vang, same as the guy that shot the six deer hunters on their own land, did not threaten the white man? No one knows yet.


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## bigbull

What a black eye to the hunting community. Is this how hunters should behave? I am a gun safty instructor and in my last class I had 2 hmomg young ladies out of 25. The only students who thanked the instructors at the end of the classes were those 2 ladies. They gave 5 instructors a thank you gift. No gift or thank yous from the others. Work to educate the new immigrants. I believe most of our families immigrated to this great country, most had to learn a new language.

Find a way to keep hunting fun, free from bs like this. There is a lot of people out there who would like to take hunting away from us.


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## BROWNDOG

I'm not a racist in the least and no one deserves to die for not knowing the language, and most likely only one person knows what really happened.

But I do feel that if you are going to buy a hunting and fishing lisc. you need to be able to read the regs, how in the world are they supposed to abide by them if they can't read them. If they could read or understand our language they probably wouldn't be shooting blue jays or robbins, a few years back in St. Cloud MN two swans were killed and taken from a park, later to be found cleaned and soaking in a Hmongs bathtub, maybe they thought it was ok. I don't think most of these people brake the law on purpose they just don't understand.

My feelings are if you can't read page one of the regs, come back when you can.


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## Maverick

> Or are you saying he wouldn't have gotten shot if he wasn't allowed to go hunting? I still don't know what one has to do with the other.


That is exactly my point! Take him out of the element( for him it was hunting)(when he really shouldn't be hunting if he doesn't know the laws)and he would still be alive. Let him back in to the element when he ready to do so on his own.



> It is the fault of the person that killed him?


That I will agree with..... 
But I am looking at it from a PREVENTION point of view....How can we stop things like this from happening again!



> Not one place did you call this victim a man or a person. All of your descriptions of him are "the Hmong


 Your racism not mine...I am actually talking broader than just Vang but that is the way you are interpreting it! I never once described him as "The Hmong". So again, your racism not mine!
Hell the article even calls him a HMONG....Well that's it the article is racist as well.


> In a case that could further expose racial tensions between white residents and Asian immigrants here, a local sheriff said a Hmong man found dead in the woods Saturday was murdered.


EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION.....with out it we are LOST.....

IMO: If you live in America you should be able to speak english. I know for a *fact* that when my greatgrandfather was on the boat to come over here he was reading english literature the whole way here.


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## Goldy's Pal

Pretty hard for the game wardens to communicate with someone from wherever they come from if they don't understand english too. Heck you never know what someone is getting from what you're saying if they don't speak that language. Maybe you asked for some form of I.D but that person just thinks you asked for them to drop their pants for all you know. A change in license requirements is necessary in my opinion and the Vang tragedy from 2004 has probably fueled some fires that just won't go out especially in that area. I totally agree, education is huge at this point.


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## Dak

If I remember right this thread was about a Hmong person being shot while hunting. A suspect has been arrested. To paraphrase MSG Rude...we don't know jack. Maybe when more information comes out there can be a reasonable discussion of those facts.


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## gonehuntin'

Tonight on the news they're calling the white guy, Nichols, only "a man of interest". They interviewed wittnesses that saw Nichols at the game area and he didn't have a gun, only a knife. He is underarrest for a probation violation, possission of a gun. His pellet gun? He was shot twice in the hand. Is it just possible that the Hmong threatened him, or so he thought, he tried to disarm him, was shot twice in the hand from gripping the muzzle of the gun, took the gun, and shot the Hmong? Everyone they interviewed about Nichols said he was a great guy, never violent and never caused trouble. It'll be interesting to see just which way this plays out. Will know at the end of this week.


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## zettler

Fiancee Says Hunter Killed Vang In Self-Defense
(AP) WAUSAU, Wis. A man jailed in the death of another squirrel hunter in northern Wisconsin was shot once in each hand before the two wrestled in the woods and he stabbed the victim with a knife he carried to cut the tails off his quarry, the suspect's fiancee told The Associated Press Tuesday.

Dacia James said she was the first person that James Nichols of Peshtigo talked to after the incident that killed Cha Vang, 30, of Green Bay, late Friday afternoon in a public hunting area just south of Peshtigo.

James, 20, said Nichols, 28, indicated to her that he acted in self-defense after being shot in the hands.

"There was a verbal confrontation first," James said in a telephone interview from her home in Marinette. "Jim told me that he had stabbed the guy. That is all I know."

Marinette County Sheriff's Department Jim Kanikula has released few details of the investigation into Vang's death, other than it occurred after an "accidental meeting" between Vang and another hunter. The sheriff did not immediately return a telephone message Tuesday seeking comment on what James said.

Nichols didn't immediately report the incident to police because he panicked and was frightened because he was on probation for burglary, James said. But Nichols, after seeking medical care with James at his side, helped investigators try to locate Vang's body within hours after the incident, James said.

Vang's body was found Saturday partially concealed in the Peshtigo Harbor Wildlife Area. His wife has said he spoke no English and could not have provoked an attack.

Nichols has not been charged in the slaying but was jailed early Saturday on a probation violation as a felon in possession of a firearm related to the punishment for some 1997 convictions for burglary.

Kanikula has said Vang was murdered but has not revealed the cause of the death on the advice of the state attorney general's office, which is involved in the investigation.

The incident involving Vang, who is Hmong, has threatened to re-expose racial tensions in the northwoods.

His death came a little more than two years after Hmong immigrant Chai Soua Vang, 38, of St. Paul, Minn., killed six white hunters and injured two in northwestern Wisconsin. He claimed one of them fired in his direction after they shouted racial epithets. He is serving multiple life terms.

The two men are not related. Vang is a common name among the Hmong, who have immigrated from Southeast Asia to the Midwest in large numbers since the end of the Vietnam War.

Even before the 2004 shootings, Hmong hunters claimed they had been harassed, and whites complained that the Hmong do not get permission to hunt on private property.

Kanikula has said he did not know whether Vang's death was a hate crime.

According to James, Nichols was squirrel hunting about 4:30 p.m. Friday, focusing on what the squirrels were doing when he heard someone come up to him.

"He turns around and tells the guy that he needs to go to a different spot, not necessarily that he needs to leave the area, but that he was molesting his hunt and scaring the squirrels away," the fiancee said. "Jim said the guy started talking in gibberish that he couldn't understand and then fired at him."

James said Nichols, who was hunting with a 12-gauge shotgun, got hit in the right hand.

"He was shocked," James said. "He kind of just stopped and looked at his hand, he said. And he kind of laughed because he couldn't believe it."

Then a second shot hit Nichols' little finger on his left hand, James said.

James said she doesn't know whether Nichols fired his gun at Vang but she was told there was a fight and Vang was stabbed with the knife that Nichols uses to remove the tails from squirrels.

"Jim didn't intend to do this. He wasn't going out hunting for people. He was hunting for squirrels. He was defending himself," she said. "Jim is not racist at all. He has friends from every ethnic background he has ever come in contact with."

No one answered the phone at Vang's home in Green Bay late Tuesday afternoon.

Dick Campbell, a volunteer for the Hmong community in Green Bay who has befriended the Vang family, said he was not surprised by the fiancee's version of what happened. "I have been waiting for somebody to jump up and defend this guy by saying it was self-defense. That is pretty much par for the course."

Yia Thao, president of the United Hmong Community Center in Green Bay, declined comment on the fiancee's version.

Vang and his family are refugees from Thailand who came to the United States two years ago, Thao said.

Nichols' father, Daniel Nichols of rural Florence, said he had been unable to talk to his son since he was jailed. He described his son as a "likable kid" who loved hunting and fishing and worked as a logger and in sawmills for a time.

"They talk about him like he was trash on the news," he said. "Everybody liked him. He would always say `Hi' to you. He always respected his parents and elders."


----------



## Bobm

"came here for a better life" yet couldn't learn english in two years?? Thats a good sign they don't want to assimilate. You cannot be successful here without understanding our language.

GH is right about these people, not politically correct but right.

This is a direct result of the liberal view that one culture is a good as the next, multiculturalism at its worst. They flee their own countries and the culture that exists there yet refuse to embrace our culture and language and we are stupid enough to let them so we ( and they) suffer the consequences.

http://www.startribune.com/462/story/920430.html


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## swift

Gonehuntin please read your post again and see if it doesn't exude hate of a race of people. Your are truely a racist and your words speak for themselves.

This year in ND several people from wisconsin were arrested and convicted for Illegal guiding, hundreds over the limit, trespassing by using your logic all Wisconsins are a detriment to our way of life.


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## Mose

I find it interesting that because he didn't speak english that there is no way he could have provoked any type of confrontation. I am not saying it is his fault, neither am I saying it was Nichols fault. I just find it interesting that although there aren't any REAL facts yet they already have Nichols killing him out of hate.


----------



## DJRooster

Two shots, two hands! Hmmmmm? Then he was able to kill him with a knife? Partially hidden body? It will be interesting.

Then we have Bob saying "You can't learn English in two years?" and then he follows it up with:



> This is a direct result of the liberal view that one culture is a good as the next


Racism is rampant on this thread!!

Oh and he is a heck of a nice guy even though he is on probation for burglary? Any other pages on his rap sheet we should know about this "nice guy?"


----------



## always_outdoors

> "came here for a better life" yet couldn't learn english in two years?? Thats a good sign they don't want to assimilate. You cannot be successful here without understanding our language.


Wow... Ever been down to Hague, ND? How about the cafe on Saturday morning in Gackle or Napoleon? Many there still only speak the old German dialect. In fact, the kids at the school even put on a school concert every year and sing the old songs in German.

Many of which had big families that are still there today successfully farming. Now that isn't the majority down there as their children now run the farms/ranches, but it wasn't all that long ago that English wasn't spoken down in that neck of the woods.

You will find that many don't speak English down and around that area and those people have lived here for years. Some ended up near Anamoose, Drake, Keif, and Butte and they are still there today.

So should those families be ridiculed as well? How many here have families in those areas?

My great grandmother only spoke Russian and German. If I would have told her to "assimilate" and speak English, I would have seen the woodshed and my father's back hand.

I guess we should send them back to Germany since they decided not to assimilate.


----------



## swift

WOW is all I can say. I thought we came a long way from the racial riots of the sixties but from what I'm hearing on this forum we close to another one.

When immigrants legally come to the US there is no rules about language. There is no push to assimilate. There are tough rules regarding visa's and red tape. The immigrants strive to meet the standards set for them and they want to come to the US because in their minds it's the greatest country on earth. When they get here they are treated like second class people by the "Real Americans".

Next time you go to a Lutefisk feed or have lefse with christmas dinner ask yourself why you haven't assimilated to the American way yet.

Bobm you normally are the voice of reason and have thoughtful insight into the conversations so the drival you posted really took me back.

Maybe I feel so passionately about this because growing up as an army brat I lived in 14 different states and Europe and have seen many different people from the hippies of the Pacific Northwest to the Belles of the deep south of Georgia and Alabama. I have learned something from each place I lived but the one thing that was constant was the disdain for the local minority.

In Tacoma when I lived there the Asians were the targets in the south the Blacks, in the east coast anyone not from that neighborhood. And on the prarie the Native Americans. And now I see in Northern Wisconsin its anyone that is not white. You guys all need some cultural diversity and tolerence training.


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## PSDC

Live2hunt,

Those areas of Nd, that still speak German or Russian, also understand,
speak and comprehend English. BobM is correct, if you have lived in
this country and have no ambition in learning the English language,
you are going to have many problems with functioning in today's
society.


----------



## 870 XPRS

DJRooster said:


> Oh and he is a heck of a nice guy even though he is on probation for burglary? Any other pages on his rap sheet we should know about this "nice guy?"


By no means am I defending this individual, because he did what he did. However, it happend in 1997 and he's 28 now. Think young and dumb had anything to do with it. A lot can change in a peson in 10 years, and there is just a little bit of difference between burglary and murder.


----------



## HUNTNFISHND

swift wrote:


> When immigrants legally come to the US there is no rules about language. There is no push to assimilate.


Your right, maybe there should be. I think it is time for the English language to become law. If you want to speak your native language in the privacy of your own home that's fine, but while in public English should be the only language allowed.

As far as this case goes, I agree that we do not know all of the facts. I find the self defense claim a bit tough to believe. The guy must not have been a very good shot to hit him in the hands both times. And why would the guy not use his shotgun to defend himself, but rather a knife?


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## tsodak

Apparently minor problems like getting killed.

Down with the Hutterites!!! Down with the Amish!!! Assimilate or suffer the consequences!!!!


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## Gohon

Where did any of the articles say he could not read anything? Where did they say the man could not speak any English? Only thing I saw was that he spoke *very little* English. Seems some are getting way ahead of know facts without knowing anything just yet.


----------



## Maverick

Right out of the article......


> His wife has said he spoke no English and could not have provoked an attack.


Seems we are not?


----------



## Gohon

Maverick said:


> Right out of the article......
> 
> 
> 
> His wife has said he spoke no English and could not have provoked an attack.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems we are not?
Click to expand...




> His wife has said he spoke little English


From the first article in this thread.



> Vang spoke little English and was attending classes to pursue a vocation, Campbell said.


From the second article in this thread.

Sorry........... but yes you are. You know no more than I do about the case, which is nothing.


----------



## always_outdoors

PSCD: Actually you are incorrect. Not everyone...I have visited these farms and had to have son/daughter interpret for me when I was out. As I also stated in my post, my great grandmother who lived in Anamoose spoke little English. She understood very little (hello, good-bye, luv yous, thank you, etc..)


----------



## Maverick

Well I do know he does speak little to no english :eyeroll:

I do believe his wife....

Sorry but No I am not!!!


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## PSDC

live2hunt,

What ever, since I have family and friends in that area, you
must be correct!!!!!!


----------



## Maverick

Since my family lives there I am going to have to agree with PSDC.


----------



## FallsGuy16

I hear a lot about assimilate......What does this ACTUALLY mean?? Assimilate to our culture and way of living?? What is OUR way of living? Everyone in this country except for Native Americans are a result of immigrants. Last I checked we forced the English language and western style of living to this country. Otherwise if we had assimilated to the culture of the people that were here before, we'd all be living like the Native Americans still. The United States is a melting pot, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses......" Doesn't sound like "Give me your english only speaking, educated, christian people." So why do some people hold immigrants now to a different set of standards than our own ancestors???


----------



## always_outdoors

I lived and worked in Napoleon. My great, great Grandmother is buried in the Hague Cemetery.

One side of my family homesteaded near Hague. The other between Butte and Drake.

I was just down in Napoleon last week for two days. Family reunions in Strasburg and Anamoose.

But I am sure that doesn't qualify me for anything now does it?


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## Bobm

Unlike lilywhite North Dakota I live in one of the most racially diverse areas of the country and have many close black and several hispanic ( mexican) friends that I asociate with regularly so don't give me your ridiculous racist BS it doesn't apply.

It would be bigotry not racism.

I love it when people use terms they don't understand :wink: 
DJ is the champ at this but hes just a springer spaniel so I guess we should be impressed, he would be a stupid human but he is pretty smart for a dog, heck, my dogs can't even type :beer: .

Gohon, if his wife says he couldn't speak english I feel that more accurate than any other source, she would know better than any reporter writing a article although I agree every article in the media is suspect.

MY comment was directed at the larger problem of multiculturalism and the importance to the furture of this country of insisting that immigrants assimilate instead of enabling them with foriegn languages on road sign, govt forms ect.

Until they assimilate and adopt the language of the land they cannot be successful or self suficent in our society its hurt us and hurts them more.

Unfortunately the conversation cannot be had with some on here, political correctness has blinded many in our society and the responses to this thread by some are proof.


----------



## PSDC

live2hunt,

I will agree with you part way, due to I buy chickens from the
Hutterites in northern SD and many don't speak a lick of english.
But, we were able to understand each other. In other words,
he was able to comprehend my english and I was able to 
comprehend his german. If you ever get the chance to buy 
chickens from the Hutterites, go for it, last time I paid $4.75
for each whole chicken!

FallsGuy16,

I personal don't believe we can compare the United States of
today vs. when most of our ancestors had the big boat ride
over 100 years ago. The United States has evolved and so
has immigration into this wonderful country.


----------



## bratlabs

DJRooster said:


> Oh and he is a heck of a nice guy even though he is on probation for burglary? Any other pages on his rap sheet we should know about this "nice guy?"


http://wcca.wicourts.gov/index.xsl
You can look both men up. I used the 06-09-1977 birth date for Vang, and 05-27-1978 for Nichols. I dont know if these are the exact birth dates, they are the ones that go with the ages of the two on the court site.


----------



## always_outdoors

> And it wouldn't be racism anyway it would be bigotry you morons.


I think your words down in the politics forum was....._it is obvious that when you can't win an arguement, you revert to name calling._

:eyeroll:

I wasn't calling you racist or anything like that, but IMHO the previous post by you was out of line.


----------



## Norm70

All i can say is wow. :eyeroll:

A man was killed by a guy with a knife. Does it really matter what ethnicity either guy is? I thought all of this stuff got settled around 1968, but i guess not.

If it was found to be self defense, then it is obvious Mr. Vang was looking for a fight. If it was murder than Mr. Nichols is a cold blooded killer who should rot in hell. Good thing that the courts are blind when it comes to race(I am sure there will be an arguement out of this).

There is no official language in the US. UNofficially yes it is english. Whether Vang was shooting or Nichols was knifing i think the universal saying is oh sh*&. One or the other was out for blood. Let's let the courts decide.

Anyway i do like this quote by the GF of the accused


> Jim didn't intend to do this. He wasn't going out hunting for people. He was hunting for squirrels.


----------



## Bobm

the racism was implied in several posts and the comment was aimed at those that implied it only.

I am not by any stretch of the imagination a racist and bristle at the implication.

AS for this getting settled in 1968 they were on our side then...there is nothing to settle.

Again my point was that multiculturalism has led to islands of other cultures existing within ours with no attemp at "melting" in to this great nation and thats the underlying cause for the whole situation.

Forget I even tried, so mired in political correctness are we that nothing no matter how obvious can be admitted to and openly discussed if its not PC.

No one wins as long as this trend continues, problems cannot even be realistically defined. I have no hope it will change, this country is on unending downhill slide and it will continue.


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## Bobm

I want to apologize to anyone I offended with the morons comment, I get too fired up sometimes.


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## jdpete75

swift said:


> by using your logic all Wisconsins are a detriment to our way of life.


I agree entirely, regarding wisconsonites anyway


----------



## gonehuntin'

Bobm said:


> I want to apologize to anyone I offended with the morons comment, I get too fired up sometimes.


Especially the morons!!!!!!!!!!! :evil:


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## gonehuntin'

And do your Germans, Hutterites, etc. form gangs, murder people, violate the game and fish laws, kill innocent hunters, and live on welfare, because they can't speak english? Do they flock to the casinos with their welfare money to lose it gambling and then try to pahnandle outside the doors? Problem is, you guys that don't live among the Hmongs really have no idea what you're talking about. When we point out problems, we're racists. But you're not. Interesting. The way you're treating opinions against the Hmong, me thinks if you had blacks, mexicans and Humongs in North Dakota, you'd be some of the worst racists around.


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## Gohon

> Gohon, if his wife says he couldn't speak english I feel that more accurate than any other source,


Bob, one article quotes the wife as saying he spoke no English while another article quotes her as saying he spoke very little English. Which one do you choose to believe? The point was and still is nobody here really knows anything yet and won't for some time. Everything so far is just hearsay and no facts except one.............a man was murdered.


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## swift

Bobm I'm originally from the Wyoming Valley area of Northeastern Pennsylvania. It is a melting pot from the beginning of the country. Each town has a feel of a different nationality. There is little Italy, Little Poland, Germantown and so forth. This is the way it was in the 1600's and still now.

You said Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:10 pm Post subject:

Again my point was that multiculturalism has led to islands of other cultures existing within ours with no attemp at "melting" in to this great nation and thats the underlying cause for the whole situation.

That is not a new concept. The fact is each nationality that came to the US set up their islands of cultures and over time (200 years) assimilation has occurred. Asking for a group to learn the language and disregard everything they learned because they came to OUR country is a bit much.

I am the first to stand up against Political correctness. But their is a difference in being PC and being a Bigot or a racist.

Also you have showed your are very intelligent over the years of posting on here so I may be wrong but I learned a Bigot dislikes a person that is different and a racist dislikes a person based on their race. So the postings by GH attack the Hmong race therefore they are racial slurs. Correct me if I'm wrong I love to learn new things everyday.


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## Maverick

Swift



> So the postings by GH and Mav attack the Hmong race therefore they are racial slurs


Where did I once attack them? Reread all my posts. Not once do I attack them. You attacked me by calling me a "Hate monger".



> Correct me if I'm wrong I love to learn new things everyday.


You are wrong because I have never once attacked them! I am still not! I have talked about how to prevent things like this from happening.

DROP the race card!!!!It's getting old!!!

You interpretation of what I am saying is DEAD WRONG!!!!

My whole argument has been about a lauguage barrier that should be broken before we allow people to hunt! How the hell is that attcking them you monger!
Here I will say it again my arguement is about a language barrier that should be broken befoer we allow people to hunt!

Is it clear for you now SWIFT
Damn man if you cannot figure that out by now!!!!Your the biggot and idiot!!!!


----------



## swift

gonehuntin wasn't one of the best known Wisconsinites Jeffery Dahmer? Was he white? Did he murder? Did he do dispicable things to other humans? My point is gangs are multinational, criminals are multinational and your useless ranting about a race of people is borderline criminal.

I guarentee their are more murders committed by whites than Hmongs but you have preconceived notions about the people from indonesia.

We have a bad Meth problem in ND. It is being manufactured in old farmsteads and other places AND it is 90% of the time white middle class people doing it. You wont go on a website bashing the white race for all being meth dealers, cocaine abusers, white collar criminals bilking people out of millions but you will say that a murder of another person that looks different is "NO GREAT LOSS".


----------



## Eric Hustad

Gonehunting that makes no sense. No we don't have a lot of minorities here, but we are surrounded by whites who break laws, rape children(trial going on in Moorhead right now), kill people, are in gangs, are lazy, are drunks, add no real value to society etc. My point is every group has its shares of pukes whites included. Come here for deer opener and you will see a cast of people who you wonder what hole they crawled of. I swear some depend on the meat to live rather than actually work etc and will do anything to kill. Sure makes me proud to know they are German/Norwiegen Americans like me.


----------



## Maverick

Swift 
Please show me one sentence where I make a racial remark!! PLease show me as I like to learn something new as well!!!

uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:


----------



## swift

Maverick I have reread your posts and will concede to you. I read them and took them in the context of the thread title. "Hmong hunter murdered"
I felt that your were justifying his murder because he was hunting and you felt he shouldn't have been even though he had every right to hunt.

I took your statements about him not being allowed to hunt because of his lack of english as bigotry. The article clearly stated he hunted that area before and was comfortable with the woods.

You said that he should not be allowed to hunt until he can understand english. You also said that if he was not allowed to hunt he would still be alive. I took that as insensitive and racially motivated. It sounds as though you are justifying his murder because he cannot speak english. 
Again I most likely read more into it than I should have. This thread is very polarized and therefore it seemed as though you were arguening on the side of GN and PSDC and their comments were read into yours.

I do apologize if I have offended you but try to understand where I was coming from.


----------



## DJRooster

Dammit, Bob! Just because my springers are smarter than me you did not have to tell the world! That hurts more than anything you have ever said about me even if it is the truth! Ouch!!


----------



## MRN

Stop being so hard on Mav,

He was the only one I knew at my naturalization ceremony. He did a great job welcoming all us foreigners (and telling us to learn the @#$%^ language...) Everyone loved the joke he told about the mexican and the cue ball.... 

M.


----------



## Maverick

I was merly arguing on the side of prevention. By looking at the similarites in both incidents. 
In 2 years we have 2 murder incidents in WI. Fact....
In the 2 incidents both have had whites and Hmongs involved. Fact...
In both incidents ( AS REPORTED SO FAR) the language barrier has been apart of the problem. Fact....

Now for the prevention part. Maybe we have them sit down with hunter safety instructors and read the proclamation to them, or even have a translatter there to do so to ensure they know the laws. But I truely believe that if someone cannot comprehend the proc. that they shouldn't beable to hunt. Even if your a ******* from the South with the vocabulary of a 2 year old(not trying to name call just make a point). 
That was my point!

Nowhere did I say anything about justifying his death!

I do see you side and no offense taken.
Playing football for NDSU would have been even harder if I was a racist ( let alone 3 a days practices)! But I am not!!!! I can assure you that!!!
:beer:


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## irish

The two things that are geting lost here is that one hunter killed another !And you are makeing a miss statement ,there are no facts in a news article.What is reported in the news has nothing to do with facts and everything to do with what they want to write .When i was a LEO i watched the press make up things all the time . So when you read something or see it on TV veiw it wisely (sp) dont take it as the truth the press has no reson to make sure they tell the truth .Unless you you your self know the people dont belive what is reported about them .The more they can blow up the facts the more people will watch or by papers .The sad thing is that when you hunt you should feel safer than that in the woods .

Irish


----------



## gonehuntin'

Swift, I don't agree with you at all. For one, I've ranted and raved about no one. Now, it those people running those meth labs were killed in an explosion, would it be a loss? Not to me. You still have apparently not comprehended just what a problem these people are here. We have little problem with the Mexicans here. We have little problem with the blacks here. We can communicate with them and they work hard to make a better life for themselves. My PROBLEM comes from a race of people living on welfare and ignoring all of our game and fish laws. I'm sick of it and sick of them and their asian gang violence. If you don't agree, that's fine, that's why we have forum's like this and that's why I love living in this country. A racist? Absolutely not, that's an absurd and inflamatory statement; I abhore anyone that is a true racist. A person that is tired of a bunch of people that cause endless problems for the number there are is certainly not a racist.


----------



## Bobm

Dj don't feel bad they are smarter that half the population of this country, maybe more than half :beer:


----------



## swift

GH you say you are not a racist and in the same post you say you have a PROBLEM with a race of people.

Which is it? I don't think you want to think of yourself that way but your words tell the truth.

If meth makers blow themselves up it's no loss to you. I spend everyday trying to keep people alive and each life lost is a loss to someone. Try telling the 10 year old kid that his dad deserved to die because of his race. I bet you cant do it face to face.


----------



## Leo Porcello

Sitting here in WI and like this thread the news on the TV is hard to keep up with. Got the below from another site. For what it is worth:



> From 1960-1975, the Hmong were strong fighters for the United States against the Communists. For 15 years, life for the Hmong was not the same. Families lost members, wives lived without husbands, and children had no uncles or aunts. An estimated 25-30,000 Hmong died during the war as a result of supporting the United States.
> 
> When the United States pulled their troops from Southeast Asia in 1975, Laos fell to the Communists. The Hmong became a favorite target for North Vietnam and the Pathet Lao. The fields and houses of any pro-American Hmong villages were burned, the animals slaughtered, and the people chased down and killed.
> 
> Many Hmong fled through the jungles of Laos and crossed the Mekong River to Thailand. They waited in refugee camps to be placed in countries that would agree to take them in. The United States, Canada, and France were among the first choices for the Hmong. The largest Hmong populations in the United States are concentrated in California, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.
> 
> Today, the Hmong no longer speak the same dialect, wear the same clothes or share the same way of life. They have adapted to different living environments and engage in different types of farming. They live in remote areas away from civilization in order to preserve their peace and freedom, but very often, their lives are disturbed by wars, which have forced them to take sides to defend their homes and families.


----------



## Gohon

PorkChop, thanks for posting that. I thought about it but all to often I've been accused of living in the past when mentioning that dirty little war. I'm sure eventually all these people will adapt and move into society as everyone wishes. But considering it took well over 30 years to get the last group of Hmongs into this country and this guy was a member of that last group two years ago, I can understand they may be slow to adapt. We promised them protection if they helped and fought beside us, they did, many paid with their lives for it. A lot of servicemen came home because of them. We do owe them for that service.


----------



## Eric Hustad

Good post PC as I was not aware about what they did during the war as it was before my time.


----------



## Centerfire

That war ended 32 years ago - do we owe them forever (most of the current generation coming over here and cashing in on the supposed debt we owe them - were not even old enough to be fighting with us over there Besides were they not fighting for their own ideals in their own country - how is it we owe them?). But hey this is the USA - let everyone in and we will all pay for for it with our tax money.


----------



## Gohon

> That war ended 32 years ago - do we owe them forever (most of the current generation coming over here and cashing in on the supposed debt we owe them - were not even old enough to be fighting with us over there Besides were they not fighting for their own ideals in their own country - how is it we owe them?). But hey this is the USA - let everyone in and we will all pay for for it with our tax money.


Yes and it took this long to keep that promise. This guy didn't fight there but it is safe to bet his father did and most likely buried there as a result. Other wise he would not have qualified to be in the last group which by the way have been living in refugee camps since the end of that war. We made a promise to the Hmongs if they guided us through the jungles, fought with us and shielded our airmen when shot down we would insure their safety. This is starting to get off topic but you really should do a search on these people before being so quick to condemn them. In case you hadn't noticed we are not fighting in our own country right now either but I'll bet you will be quick to point out the Iraqi's own us.


----------



## irish

But you have to admit that the war in Iraqu and Vet Nam are totaly differnt . In nam they just wanted us out of there country , The war now they will chase us here to kill us realy not the same ?

Jmo Irish


----------



## MossyMO

Here is an email I received and I thought it pertained to this subject. It is said this was written in to the editor of The Orange County Register, but was never put in to print in their newspaper.



> Dear Editor:
> So many letter writers have based their arguments on how this land is made up of immigrants. Ernie Lujan for one, suggests we should tear down the Statue of Liberty because the people now in question aren't being treated the same as those who passed through Ellis Island and other ports of entry.
> 
> Maybe we should turn to our history books and point out to people like Mr. Lujan why today's American is not willing to accept this new kind of immigrant any longer. Back in 1900 when there was a rush from all areas of Europe to come to the United States, people had to get off a ship and stand in a long line in New York and be documented. Some would even get down on their hands and knees and kiss the ground. They made a pledge to uphold the laws and support their new country in good and bad times. They made learning English a primary rule in their new American households and some even changed their names to blend in with their new home.
> 
> They had waved good bye to their birth place to give their children a new life and did everything in their power to help their children assimilate into one culture.
> 
> Nothing was handed to them. No free lunches, no welfare, no labor laws to protect them. All they had were the skills and craftsmanship they had brought with them to trade for a future of prosperity. Most of their children came of age when World War II broke out. My father fought along side men whose parents had come straight over from Germany, Italy, France and Japan. None of these 1st generation Americans ever gave any thought about what country their parents had come from. They were Americans fighting Hitler, Mussolini and the Emperor of Japan. They were defending the United States of America as one people. When we liberated France, no one in those villages were looking for the French-American or the German American or the Irish American. The people of France saw only Americans. And we carried one flag that represented one country. Not one of those immigrant sons would have thought about picking up another country's flag and waving it to represent who they were. It would have been a disgrace to their parents who had sacrificed so much to be here. These immigrants truly knew what it meant to be an American. They stirred the melting pot into one red, white and blue bowl.
> 
> And here we are in 2006 with a new kind of immigrant who wants the same rights and privileges. Only they want to achieve it by playing with a different set of rules, one that includes the entitlement card and a guarantee of being faithful to their mother country. I'm sorry, that's not what being an American is all about. I believe that the immigrants who landed on Ellis Island in the early 1900's deserve better than that for all the toil, hard work and sacrifice in raising future generations to create a land that has become a beacon for those legally searching for a better life. I think they would be appalled that they are being used as an example by those waving foreign country flags.
> 
> And for that suggestion about taking down the Statue of Liberty, it happens to mean a lot to the citizens who are voting on the immigration bill. I wouldn't start talking about dismantling the United States just yet.


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## Centerfire

I tell you what - Then I want a long over do check from all the european countries for my father, uncles, and great uncles who fought for their countries in WWI and WWII and PS maybe a summer home from Saudies and Kwait for my son fighting in Iraq right now.

So look at this scenario - If I were to fight a for the United States in the United States and say Great Britain helps us out but we lose - Great Britain now owes me and my decendents a home for the next 30 years - Get real I don't think so.


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## Maverick

> Seems some are getting way ahead of know facts without knowing anything just yet.


Then by your standards you are right in the thick of it!


> but it is safe to bet his father did and most likely buried there as a result.


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## upland420

irish said:


> The two things that are geting lost here is that one hunter killed another !And you are makeing a miss statement ,there are no facts in a news article.What is reported in the news has nothing to do with facts and everything to do with what they want to write .When i was a LEO i watched the press make up things all the time . So when you read something or see it on TV veiw it wisely (sp) dont take it as the truth the press has no reson to make sure they tell the truth .Unless you you your self know the people dont belive what is reported about them .The more they can blow up the facts the more people will watch or by papers .The sad thing is that when you hunt you should feel safer than that in the woods .
> 
> Irish


Not only is your post bordering on being ILLITERATE... its stunningly IGNORANT. It frightens me that someone who can hardly form a cogent sentence was 'a LEO' (I can only assume this stands for Law Enforcement Officer as opposed to someone born in August). I have worked in the media since 1987 and your comments are so far from the truth its simply laughable. Facts are CHECKED and RECHECKED before being broadcast or printed. If they arent, and you put out something that hurts someones life in a serious way by SLANDERING them you can be SUED and will surely lose your job as a result. CREDIBILITY is everything to a reporter or writer...without it they are DONE. Ask Dan Rather.


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## upland420

Bobm said:


> This is a direct result of the liberal view that one culture is a good as the next, multiculturalism at its worst. They flee their own countries and the culture that exists there yet refuse to embrace our culture and language and we are stupid enough to let them so we ( and they) suffer the consequences.


Typical right wing babble. So predictable...so intolerant. Everything is black and white...if youre not EXACTLY like them...you are BAD. Anything or anyone DIFFERENT is a THREAT. One only needs to read the first sentence to get it. Somehow in Bobs dimly lit eyes "one culture" is clearly NOT as "GOOD as the next". Translation...Bob and his right wing pals are BETTER. Hey Bob...wasnt this guy HUNTING ...LEGALLY? Dont YOU do that? Sounds to me like thats one part of our "culture" that this fella embraced.


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## Leo Porcello

Centerfire your missing the point. It is not being said that we owe them something because we went over there and fought. It is being said we owe them because we promised to take care of them if they fought along side of us and help us out. They could have sat in their huts and watched more of our service members die. But no they stuck their necks out and got their heads chopped off for helping us out while we were there and long after we pulled out. We made the promise. You help us and we will take care of you whatever the outcome. Its taking some time but the promise is being kept.

Now I will take a chance by sticking my head out to be cut off. I would venture to say if we did not make that deal, half of the Hmongs if not more would not be here. We, the US brought them here. They are were not a bunch of Cubans or Hatians on a truck made into a boat floating into Miami or Mexicans running over the border. They are legititmaley (sp) here. They are not here illegally.

But the whole point should be another hunter killed another hunter, a life was taken. A felon had a gun and he should not have. From what I am seeing on the news the process is broken. WI has no system to check if your a felon when buying a hunting license but if you have not paid child support the system will say something and you get denied when trying to buy that license.??????????????????? If that is not broke I don't know what is.


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## Leo Porcello

Also I find it pretty sickening that some are trying to justify this death because the guy could not speak English or that he was a Hmong. I feel when you come here like my grandparents did you learn the language right away. But do I think everyone that does not know the language should be penned up and shot?? Hell no. Lets find out why this guy is now dead and why his wife and kids can't hug and kiss him anymore. Once the problem is identified lets find a solution and fix it. And if you don't have a solution then keep it shut because your not helping the problem if there is a problem.


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## Gohon

Maverick said:


> Seems some are getting way ahead of know facts without knowing anything just yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Then by your standards you are right in the thick of it!
> 
> 
> 
> but it is safe to bet his father did and most likely buried there as a result.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Maverick why do you do things like this? You take one line from a comment about a murder in one post, then take one line about a immigrants right to be here from another post, marry that together with a moronic comment and think you just said something profound. Trying to start another one of your little pissing contests again are you..........Unbelievable .........:eyeroll:


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## Gohon

upland420, you aren't seriously expecting the readers here to swallow the line that everything written in a newspaper is absolute fact are you? And someone claiming they must assume what LEO means says a lot also. Even a ten year old knows what LEO stands for. I would have to say irish is way off the mark but pleaseeeee...........Your blanket defense that everything printed is absolute fact is hogwash and you know it


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## Centerfire

I agree this topic has wound around and gone a long way off course from where it started and yes my previous comment does not pertain to the original topic.

Until all the facts come out and the authorities get to the truth we are all guessing. My comments were in regard to the side topic aqnd not intended to make judgement on the original topic one way or the other


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## MossyMO

I will gaurantee all of you who have read this topic one thing. If ever there was a jury chosen for this case, not one of us is suited to be on it.


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## Leo Porcello

haha I am definitely for innocent until proven guilty but your probably right!! :beer:


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## gonehuntin'

PorkChop said:


> Centerfire your missing the point. It is not being said that we owe them something because we went over there and fought. It is being said we owe them because we promised to take care of them if they fought along side of us and help us out. They could have sat in their huts and watched more of our service members die. But no they stuck their necks out and got their heads chopped off for helping us out while we were there and long after we pulled out. .


They helped us? Whose country was it we were fighting in?


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## Leo Porcello

Take the time and read the above and you will find out.


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## Habitat Hugger

Blows me away when I read some of these posts filled, IMHO, with racial bigotry.
Interesting that some of the flag waving chest beating people defending the "war on terror" and Iraq on this and other outdoor websites seem to be some of the same people with the anti Hmong and 'it's OK to kill 'em cause they deserve it for not speaking English and being white' attitudes.
Think you have it bad with the Hmong, now? Fast forward about 10 - 20 years when you have hundreds of thousands of Arabic people out there, putting tremendous drain on the welfare systems, brought in to the country as refugees because of our meddling in the rest of the world's business. Time we stayed home and kept our noses clean. 
Wait till the whole story of this murder plays out. Hunting small game on public land, having slant eyes and yellowish skin, and not speaking much English is hardly a reason for a death sentence.


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## Maverick

> Maverick why do you do things like this


Hmm lets see here if a paper reports that Mr. Vang could speek little to no english and you think I was "Jumping the gun" but it ok for you to post off of assumption! Hmmm....

Where in the article does it say anything about his father or his life experiences?


> but it is safe to bet his father did and most likely buried there as a result.


 Where do you think you get the right to spill assumption and then feel just because you sadi it that it makes it true? Just cause you say so! I think NOT! You are posting something that no one really knows. ASSUMPTION.....
Mine was facts that were reported.



> marry that together with a moronic comment and think you just said something profound. Trying to start another one of your little pissing contests again are you..........Unbelievable .........


Same old Gohon...You gotta go back to name calling. Pitiful....Purley pitiful
Grow up...If you cannot post in the same threads as me and not direct them twords me then how about you stop the pissing ( with what little streeam you still have left)match by not posting twords me. I see through your suttel hints in your posts.
Sorry to everyone else..........
Who started it Gohon!!! Look in the mirror Sally!!!!


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## Maverick

GOHON

If you want to keep your childish antics up please do so by PM. This is really getting old!

Again I opologise to everyone else who has to put up with this! :eyeroll:


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## irish

Let me say that yes i might fail english class but then agin i dont make my living in the print media . Oh yes LEO has noting to do with when i was born. And yes mabey seeing what the media has done in the past will make them change in the future . But a personal attack on me just makes me think that what i said hit close to home .But after were this has all gone it is very sad to see that the point of someone died or was killed has been lost lets all step back and think ! What if this had happend to one of your loved ones what this will do and has done to that families lives and hunting heritage .

Irish


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## Gohon

Mavrick I said "it was safe to bet" and I was giving a point of view why at his age he was here. Talk about people that can't understand English. You pull this crap in every thread. Nothing to say on the discussion, just jumping in trying to start trouble. Do you have a clue at all how transparent your actions are to everyone? No I won't take anything to pm.......... you could have done the same but you would rather as always, openly start a pissing contest in every thread. If you think your apology to everyone will have them thinking you are taking the high road without seeing through your little grade school tactics, better think again. Do you have any input on the discussion? I didn't think so........ but maybe this thread can now continue without your childish interruptions.


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## Maverick

> it was safe to bet"


 Yes and that is ASSUMPTION, actually more assumption than my quote about his ability to speek the english language.



> You pull this crap in every thread.


Oh give me break Gohon. You are so full of BS..It's only when you dumb asss comes marching in like your the voice of reason!!! Every thread...Ahhah hahh hah hhahhah ha> MORON.



> Do you have any input on the discussion


Sorry you couldn't read it through your bigotry filled eyes.


> you could have done the same but you would rather as always, openly start a pissing contest in every thread


 You really need a reality check stupid. Your the one who started the name calling. Napoleonitis must be fun ehhh small man.

Let it be know YOU STARTED THIS little guy!!!!! You want to keep going well then fine. But if the thread locks it on your hands now because I tried to take it elsewhere, and keep this thread on topic.


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## Dak

This thread went off topic about the second post.


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## djleye

This is better than Rosie and The Donald!!!!!!  :lol: :lol:


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## dosch

Go for the hair first. Unless of course someone doesn't have any :wink:


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Too many example to post up, some PM's sent.

NO PERSONAL ATTACKS PERIOD!

Some people are on their last warnings.

Read this please:

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/terms.html

LOCKED


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