# What was I doing wrong?



## Codeman (Mar 9, 2010)

Ok, so I went hunting last weekend. I had some decent luck, and there were tons of birds, it is just they would make one look, and fly by our decoys and then land just out of range.

I know that there are a lot of variables to consider, but here is my situation.
Both days our blinds were well concealed. I walked into our decoys and could not find them. Both days we dug them down about half way, and then stubbled them. I even mudded them the day before to help a little since it was a plowed stubble field.

The first day we set up on top of a hill and had our decoys kind of around us in a U shape. We were at the bottom of the u and had them so that the open part would allow for the geese to land into the wind in the U shape. I tried to break up the pattern of decoys by placing them in a kinda irregular U shape since geese don't land in a perfect U shape. I put them in groups of 4-5 and kinda made them a U shape from there. I used this technique both days.

The decoys that I was using were UV painted shells. I had 3 dozen of them. I had two sillosock canada flyers. I used them only first day to see if they were scarring the birds. It didn't matter.

There were two of us hunting.

I had about two feet between each blind, and then put decoys around us and made the U shape from us out.
I did not keep all feeders by us, I kinda mixed in the heads all over.

It was my first time reallly hunting canadas just for them, normally a duck hunter. I have called for a couple of years and am by no means a pro. But I tried not calling and they landed farther away, so I assumed that had nothing to do with it.

I mean do I need to invest in some full bodies? OR no? I don't really want to spend the money if my current spread can get the job done.

What are some tips you guys have?
I wish I would have taken pics of our setups, but I didn't think. I am going to buy a flag this week. See if that helps later on.

Well, I kind of rambled on, but to summarize basically.
1. I thought we had good concealment.
2. The birds were in the area and we did lots of scouting and they liked those two fields.
3. Both days we had a couple hundred come by our decoys some come close enough to shoot, others just flared off and landed a little ways out.
4. Do I need full bodies? or can I get by with shells?
5. Was I set up incorrectly for my spread?

Thanks.


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## templey_41 (Jul 19, 2008)

Don't set up on top of a hill. Set up on the down slope. How far apart where your shells? I like to make sure there is atleast two big steps inbetween my decoys. Gives them more room to land. The latest DU magazine that came out explains this well. Good luck.


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## Codeman (Mar 9, 2010)

My shells were about 2 feet maybe apart. I basically went about arms length.

I will try spreading them out more.
I was trying to spread them out well, I did and made the U a lot wider but then after I did that we didn't see no more geese so I never got a chance to see how they reacted.


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## templey_41 (Jul 19, 2008)

2 feet is way too close. It just looks like big turds in a field if they are too close. Try spreading them out let me know how it works as well as not setting up directly on top of the hill.


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## Codeman (Mar 9, 2010)

Ok, I will try spreading them out a lot more.

I noticed that they do in a lot of videos have them spread out quite a bit.

Also where should I place my blind? And should I keep with the U shape?


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## greenwinger_13 (Oct 6, 2005)

my 2 cents, full bodies are good. I can call pretty decent and know when to what, sometimes that doesnt matter either.. Concelment very important.. If your in a field they are coming to day after day and all of the sudden theres two irregular lumps.. thats fishy.. like a cd once summarized, if you come home and your furniture it moved all around, youll notice... Other factors, shiny decoys, wind, shiny blinds, not on exact x, etc... Always important to make sure you put the majority of your decoys facing/looking into the wind, just like youll notice when u see them sitting in a field your scouting... When I scout a field I make sure to see how they are sitting... groups, together, what n how? Im by no means a pro and even today had a few think something bad and land just a little ways a way... I try to get them outta there asap bcuz if others see them, and potentially fishy you, there going over there too.. IMO full bodies are key, realism, concelement... they get shot at way too often by way too many different kinds of hunters when they are just trying to eat some breakfast so its easy to get shy.. Like i said no pro, but take the details u feel help or make sense! Good hunting!


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## greenwinger_13 (Oct 6, 2005)

one last thing, I set up the decoys in groups, usually a u type design, generally close together or exactly how they were sitting.. Setting up like a chess board would look fishy to me if im used to seeing families sitting, eating, and socializing no more than a few feet from each other..


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## usaf11 (Nov 23, 2009)

a tip that i learned in the early season and my first season was to set the decoys in a J. i was told that but a old timer that hunts all the time. also make sure that you have them set to where the geese will land in the j against the wind. the geese ive seen wont land with the wind which makes sense. Also make sure where you place the decoys the geese can see them if they hear calling and dont see anything they will keep moving. Plus i second what the other guys have said.


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

Here is my opinion.
The top of the hill was strike 1, decoys too close together strike 2. 
Try to find a low spot in the field. The u shape would be ok, but don't be affraid to change. Watch what the birds were doing the day before and repeat it. Shells will do a fine job, maybe add a few motion stakes. A flag is good when used correctly. I usually put 3-4 steps between decoys, motion behind the blinds. Family pods have been working good for me, keep the pods about 10-15 yards apart. Maybe next time set up off to the side of your spread. Always keep the sun to your back, and the wind if possible. If not quarter the wind.


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## greenwinger_13 (Oct 6, 2005)

Kelly Hannan said:


> Here is my opinion.
> The top of the hill was strike 1, decoys too close together strike 2.
> Try to find a low spot in the field. The u shape would be ok, but don't be affraid to change. Watch what the birds were doing the day before and repeat it. Shells will do a fine job, maybe add a few motion stakes. A flag is good when used correctly. I usually put 3-4 steps between decoys, motion behind the blinds. Family pods have been working good for me, keep the pods about 10-15 yards apart. Maybe next time set up off to the side of your spread. Always keep the sun to your back, and the wind if possible. If not quarter the wind.


Sun in eyes, cant see imperfections, wind, needed to land... very important and well said info.. and unless you can kill your limit or whatever your looking for out of one flock, finding a field with many groups of families can also be important.. very good info to use


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## Omann_12 (Aug 17, 2010)

Just my two cents pertaining to your situation. 1.) First and foremost being on that X in the field is HUGE. 2.) Sometimes when I have used the "U" formation I have accidentally put the tips of the "U" to close together and not have enough room in the kill hole and they shorted me. I opened it up a little and they decoyed much better. Move your decoys around and play with that and try to be exact on where you see the birds when scouting. Good luck and share once you have solved your problem.


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## Codeman (Mar 9, 2010)

Ok, thanks guys.

I noticed that the second day they came in closer when I was not on the hill.
So I will not set my blinds on the hill anymore.

I am also going to stick with the family pods, since it seems that is how they sit when I look at them. I am going to try to spread the pods out more. I am also going to try buying some motion stakes. I think that I am also going to try setting up my blinds on the sides. Or learn to adjust, because no sense setting up where I want the birds to fly if they are not. I can move the blinds so I can get shots.

I liked all of the info guys. It is helpfull, and next time I will bring some paper so I can kinda draw out how they are sitting in the field to give me an idea.

I think with more practice I will have more success. This was my first real time hunting canadians. But it was fun none the less. I at least had a group of two basically land in my decoys the first day.

So I got a little confused on the wind part. Ok I face most of the decoys into the wind, I know that. And Canada geese land flying into the wind like ducks right? THat is how I tried to set up my spread.


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## sd5.0. (Mar 13, 2008)

Sell the S.S. flappers and get more decoys. Shells are fine. In my experience the more decoys you have usually the geese will not pick out imperfections in your spread as easily i.e. number of blinds, blinds not stubbled to perfection, heads looking around, hickup's in calling etc.

I was in the same situation you were 2 years ago. Last year I bought full bodies and so did some of the guys that i hunt with so we aquired about 5 dozen. I hunted a few times with some guys that really knew what they were doing and were good callers and that helped a ton.

I also think that calling plays a huge part. Get a cd or something and have confidence. This can mean the difference between birds short stopping of your spread and being in the kill hole. Also check out youtube.com and do a search on hyper cluck and growl. Ive used it this season a couple times when birds try to short stop you and it really works.

Keep after it and success will follow!!!!!


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## Codeman (Mar 9, 2010)

Ok, well thanks on the input, and I have been on youtube trying to help my calling out. I think that my setup is fine for me right now until I start to get imperfections worked out. I am going to stick with it for the rest of the year and see if experience helps me some.

But my next investment is some full bodies.


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

Get "Bad Grammer" to help your calling, well worth $20.


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## verg (Aug 21, 2006)

I like to put two dekes in the open part of the U just to say, "Here is a good open spot." Seems to work. I also think flagging may be better than calling IF you know how to do it right. And someone else said face dekes in the same direction into the wind. With no disrespect, I disagree with that. Seems like the only time you see geese all facing the same direction is when they are on alert and ready to take flight. Most geese I see loafing are sitting in all directions. Just some Ideas we use and have luck with.
good luck


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## madule (Apr 23, 2008)

First question what did you do with the dirt you dug out? Im guessing put it somewhere close to the blinds maybe spread it out a bit. you may have fallen to the black hole effect if that is the case. fresh dirt is darker then dirt that is untouched for awhile, birds are wise to this and will flare when they see it.

Also I have been advocating to get away from the normal "U" and "V" shape decoy layouts. changes it up small groups this time of year no particular pattern. my hunting buddies and I have been using the Triangle of death as we call, as of that late and seems to work well. three small groups that create a triangle.

Shells work just fine in the early season.

taker easy, and if she easy taker twice


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## Codeman (Mar 9, 2010)

I did just pile the dirt around my blind.

And also I think I will just try different setups besides just using a U shape. And I think that facing them every which way makes sense. Because when you see geese relaxed they are all over, just eating.

Thanks for all of the help.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

X2 on the blacker dirt. It will bullseye you everytime. When I do dig, I put the dirt in the pick up or trailer. Then it's not there and I can refill the hole I am responsible for digging when I leave. Farmers really don't like (or need) to find holes with the equipment.
Second, there is too much talk about "U", "J", and the like. Real birds don't intentionally set that way and geese begin to recognize "standard issue" pretty quick. Setting out a "stop arm" of deeks is fine, but remember to keep it natural. I like to set a group of actives (4-6 usually) down wind (not far, 5-10 yards is enough) in a line and aim them right at a pair of tall head "lookers". Real birds do that as they land and waddle in to join the others. Often the incoming geese will get to that line and swing in. Or just land behind them.
Third, geese always sit in family groups. It can be very tough to spot this from the ground, but from the air it is plain as day. Set your decoys in groups of 3-12 or so. It sure does make a difference. 
Check out some of Fred Zink's videos and look closely at how he sets up. He gives tips on a lot of it, keen observation will clue you in on to even more.
Also, pay particular attention to how the birds are feeding. In cut corn the is often a knock down row that holds the bulk of the corn. The birds will feed in a big line then, set your deeks accordingly. Other grain fields often have spots that are more feed rich than others, pay close attention to the birds and they may show you what shape your spread needs. Good luck and post up some pics when you dust 'em!


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## Ibuylow99 (Aug 27, 2010)

Not being there makes it tough to know what you are doing wrong. However I will you give me two cents. I have hunted black geese as a guide, a club manager and now just a member, but by know means do I know all the answers yet that what keeps me coming back. With that said:

You don't need to invest in fullbody's. Obviously they are nice, however, we shoot canada's all year in Maryland with Silohoutes and shells. If they get into standing corn we will use all fullbody's because it easier to see. based on your statments, multiple comments by observers have good points but if I was hunting with you and the same thing happened, I would have moved my blinds to the one leg of the U that the birds were flaring from, closing the shooting gap where they wanted to land, second I would have been flagging expecially since you situated your decoys so close together. Your comments reflected the birds were landing in the field which meant you were in the location they wanted however most likely they didn't see movement and the decoy spread from the air made them wary...the flag would have given you movement which holds their attention most of the time closing to the kill range before flaring. one point, don't use mojo's if you are goose hunting. Our experience is they flare geese.


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## xtrmwtrfwlr14 (Sep 27, 2010)

Well as most people have summed ecerything up already i just want to add me and ny buddies last year used to be new to the sport and we ran a U formation alot abd worked early on but later and kater as the year goes on the birds become more educated so coming into this season we fixed alot and we now spread decoys out more and hide our blinds more we also got away from the usaul U formation and we now run more of a line with a slight J at the end of it and put our blinds closer to the hook we also put the feeders in the J and walkers at the other end like there comin in to feed and the birds have seemed to work into the J perfectlyA another thing we do during early season is just setup a bunch of family groups with seperate pockets for them to land and that also works out great but realky alk u can do is learn from it and keep moving forward on how u do things and if the first flock doesnt come in right dont be afraid to move some decoys around and see wat happens but hang in there and goodluck to youw


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## Codeman (Mar 9, 2010)

Ok, well another unsuccesful hunt 

This time I tried some of your guys tips. It just seemed like the location was off a little.

I do however have a couple questions.

1. Does calling affect the way they come in a lot? I am by no means a pro caller, not even close, I can call I would say decent. I just try keeping it simple to not do anything that will scare them, is this any problem?

2. What are some tips for hiding blinds? I brought a rake this time and used it to get beans and stubble for my blind. I stubbled them really well. I will try posting a pic of my blind here in a bit.

3. I spread the decoys out, and flagged, and had a group come close, but they would not finish. What are some tips on getting them to finish?

Ok well I appreciate all the help. It is so disheartineng but still addicting cuz it is a personal vengence now :sniper:


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## RBATA93 (Oct 7, 2010)

i see your blinds are concealed whats look like pretty well. that is 99% of the time your number 1 factor. other than that i wuld say if you have dew with unflocked heads your decoys r going 2 shine so bad geese won't even think of landing there. this can be a huge problem. other than that being on x marks the spot. n sometimes it just doesn't work out perfect. it's hunting.


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## xtrmwtrfwlr14 (Sep 27, 2010)

Stick with it but as a buddy said it,


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## xtrmwtrfwlr14 (Sep 27, 2010)

Thats why its called hunting, not killing


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

How well is your face hidden? If you are clean shaven and the sun hits your face as you peek out of the top of the blind it is a magnet for all those beady little goose eyes. It is often what flares the birds. A good layer of facial stubble or a head net, in combination with a cap our visor to add a little shade over your eyes goes a long way to stopping this. 
As far as "formations" go, we had an amazing hunt friday and with the exception of the four "lookers", our decoys were all in one big row. Reason? All of the birds were feeding in the first row of corn that was knocked down by the farm equipment: most of the feed was there. The lookers represented birds that had just landed. The geese landed right next to them-at 10 yards! The 20 ga. was plenty of gun. The point is, set the deeks in the same manner that the birds were feeding in the field when you last saw them.
Keep at it, you will succeed. My first year of goose hunting I had nobody to teach me and I was 17. It took me three months to kill one! Now I do it all the time after 21 years of learning. You are already off to a better start than I was with my cardboard cut outs! :thumb:


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## Codeman (Mar 9, 2010)

I have already learned so much from this forum guys I appreciate it. I am getting my spread more refined, getting better at scouting, and better at calling and hopefully setting up to get geese in.

And for my face, I lay with my face under the mesh stuff. I rub on camo facepaint I have and wear a camo hat.

I think a lot of it had to be with the hill the first time, next week I jsut didn't have the area, this up coming weekend, I think I found the x and am hopefully going to get some shooting.


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## mjschuette (Feb 24, 2005)

get out of beans, the geese will only land in them if there is nothing else in the area to eat. get in corn or wheat. beans expand in the crop and gut of as goose. I've shot them in beans, but its tougher. as for calling, talk back, listen to them and repeat it back. it works great if your like me and not a master caller.


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