# $4.00/gallon in two years,yikes!



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

OPEC's acting secretary general was quoted yesterday as saying that crude oil could hit $80 a barrel within two years. Gasoline prices in the past few days have shot up 30 cents a gallon, to around $2.09 in the Midwest for the cheap stuff. Oil is at $53 a barrel right now....imagine what a gallon of gasoline will cost when it hits $80. It's still not the most expensive it has ever been, but it could be cheaper.

Yet there is a solution to this. It's called producing our own oil, and not relying on OPEC for so much of it. It's time to send the oil rigs north, to start drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR,) where, by some estimates, there are between 6 and 16 billion barrels of oil. The area where the drilling would occur is but 8% of the entire refuge. The other 92% wouldn't be touched. Time to start drilling for oil.

Next, it's time to start building refineries. Lots of 'em. Big, huge, smelly gasoline refineries, where enough capacity exists to offset the summer driving season squeeze. That will also bring prices down. And last but not least, it's time for the EPA and all 50 states to settle on a single gasoline blend to be used year round...to stop the nonsensical practice of requiring oil companies to make 50 different blends of gasoline.

Of course, it's unlikely any of this will happen. Perhaps when gas hits $3 or $4 a gallon, people will start to think about it. Just maybe.

I wish the people of this country would push for hydrogen powered vehicles, I watched a special on PBS about it the other day and it sure seemed like an attractive alternative but I didn't see the whole thing. *Does anybody on here know if theres a downside to hydrogen as a fuel?* We have to get off our dependence on oil for a lot of reasons this is what NASA should be working on in my opinion. If your planning on purchasing a gas guzzling 4x4 or suv you might want to wait a while they will be real cheap if gas goes to $4.00/gal.


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

Good morning everyone,

I agree with you. Bear in mind that Europe is already paying an avg.
of 1.93 euro for a liter of fuel (which is basically a quart), so go figure.

I read somewhere, just can't find it now, another thing to bear in mind
that the biggest producer of oil and where we get a huge amount from
is Venezuela (south America).

I agree, open up AK and find new fuels.

There is plenty of oil to go around, what it all boils down to is greed.
We as a whole will still accept it and go on paying.

:-?


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

I think your latter suggestion of finding alternate fuel sources is a much better idea than raping an area that was supposed to be preserved.

Solar, Hydrogen, and electric vehicles are all within our grasp, the technology is there, we just need to focus on promoting this over gasoline powered vehicles.


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

Just read in the latest Newsweek that the technology is here to get 300 miles per gallon of gas. Mixed with alcohol, hydrogen, etc, that is possible. Not 300 miles per gallon of fuel, but gallon of gasoline. But, a lot of people have vested interests in not seeing this happen. Right, Mr. Bush?


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

I have found an alternitive to heating my house, three bedroom two bath and so for it cost me about $110.00 to heat this year.I have been heating with shelled corn all year ..I saved a pile of money this year.Very low maintenance, fill it every day and walk away from it. It runs on its own with out having to babysit it like a wood burner.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Curty I saw those and wondered what they were like. I bet thats a great solution in ND with all the corn, how much corn does it use per day? What does corn cost a bushel and is it dirty?

The bad news is the leader of Venuzuela hates the US and in cahoots with Castro so don't think of them as any kind of relief.

Nick, I don't think we would have to rape the area ,the technology is there to do it cleanly, but I would rather see NASA working on this problem than going to Mars and I would only support drillling in those areas if it was done for a limited amount of time while simultaneously having Bush direct Nasa to develop solar and Hydrogen.

Does anyone know if there is a downside to hydrogen, th show I watched was about greenland and they plan to be total Hydrogen soon seemed like a great alternative but I've been too busy this week to research it.


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## BobHAJ (Sep 12, 2004)

Here is Germany I pay the equivalent of $5.54/gal. I have a VW Passat and if I ran my tank completely empty and filled it with 18 gallons it would cost me $99.72. 
BobHAJ


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

The government has stated that when they see the public back into economy cars and the gas guzzler suv off the road they will become concerned. I remember the gas lines in the 70's, what a joke on us, it was only a market scheme. I worked in the oilfield at that time and place I know we plugged more producers than we developed. They gave us free gas back then not to tell the public about the scam.

Bottom line is the US citizens just don't act like there is a problem with 2 dollar gas!!!


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

buckseye said:


> Bottom line is the US citizens just don't act like there is a problem with 2 dollar gas!!!


It has snubbed our travel to next to nothing. Any "vacations this summer just got planned to offer more vacation and less travel, we are even going so far as to figure out how to rv or tent it for deer season in ND to cut down the driving.

I really wouldn't have a big probem paying the money for fuel, but when I know the car companies are padding the mileage on their vehicles, Do a google on corporate average fuel economy (CAFE for short), but when the constantly report record profits and keep taking more.....

The gas guzzler is gone, welcome econobox.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I'm disabled and live on a budget, it has been a catastrophe for me!!! I hope the Natives get their way and the taxes are taken off gas on the Reservation, it will be well worth driving 40 miles to save that much money. 8)

I have a friend who tried to import a mazda from england it gets 70 miles/gallon of diesel fuel. This was not allowed by our government. To me that puts just as much blame on our government as the oil tycoons for the hardships this causes for many citizens.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Best thing about $4.00 gas will be that we will start using alternative energy sources and gas won't be $4.00 per gallon. SUV's are not exactly helping the situations but lets face it we are Americans and that is the American way along with 3 TV's, 2 other vehicles, a camper, a boat and the list goes on and on. You name it we will probably buy more than one. It is all part of the equation. The problem now is that 1 billion Chinese are starting to try to live like Americans! Talk about competition for non-renewable energy sources like oil, gas and coal!! Talk about global warming from burning those fossil fuels. The equation keeps getting more and more involved.


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Bobm...I have never been able to turn it on high cause it will cook us out of our house.I use about 3/4 of a bushel a day (1.5), 5 gallon pails a day depending on the heat setting. I bought mine at $1.80 a bushel.Actually it is very clean..I would compare it to fuel oil or better.Everyday I remove a clinker about four inches long, two inches wide and about two inches thick, thats 24 hours worth of burning.


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## ej4prmc (Dec 3, 2004)

Thanks Pres. BUSH. :-?

By the way, the reason gas is so expensive in Europe is all taxes!


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

curty,

Do you have a link or info on this stove?

I would be interested in something like that, would work good for heating a shop too.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Curty is there any odor like a woodstove?


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Try www.magnumfireplace.com

For a dealer in Minot www.stcroixmotor.com

TC


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Has anyone taken the time to question why its so damned expensive?


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## IAHunter (Sep 1, 2003)

America pays a "premium" on oil, usually around 10%. Other countries pay slightly less than our importers do. We also a have a refinery shortage. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the US in over 15 years because of green groups and the "not-in-my-backyard" people. Oil companies have been increasing capacities by increasing utlilization rates at the old refineries.

I personally believe that we leave all new oil fields alone in the US and start researching new alternatives. If you are the first out with a product you are the one who makes the most off it. The oil fields around the world will slowly go dry, and who will still have oil. Yes it's greedy, but screw it!!!

And say what you want about capitalism, it does produce innovation. Take a look at the X Prize last year and the first private vehicle into space. If memory serves me correctly, they are looking at expanding that to include the first 4 passenger vehicle to cross the US with all four passengers while averaging 150 mpg's.

IaHunter


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> We also a have a refinery shortage. There hasn't been a new refinery built in the US in over 15 years because of green groups and the "not-in-my-backyard" people. Oil companies have been increasing capacities by increasing utlilization rates at the old refineries.


Is that so? I heard that the refineries were only at 87% capacity this past week. As to those damned hippies, do you really want one in your neighborhood?



> I personally believe that we leave all new oil fields alone in the US and start researching new alternatives. If you are the first out with a product you are the one who makes the most off it. The oil fields around the world will slowly go dry, and who will still have oil. Yes it's greedy, but screw it!!!


Or we could just start buying it from canada and the nordic countries for a small premium. I would personally be willing to pay an extra quarter on the gallon at the pump to get us out of the mid east entirely.


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Bobm...No odor at all in the house, it is draft induced ...It takes air from outside for combustion and blows it through the fire and out the vent. A little smell like corn burning outside but not much. Little or no smoke also


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## redfishman (Apr 3, 2004)

Working as an outside rep in the petro chemical corridor along the Mississippi river of South Louisiana I'm inside at least 11-refineries on a regular basis. Granted ,new refineries have not been built in our area in decades. But because of federal guidelines on use of NEW aquired properties the constraints against them are not economically to begin a new capital project. So ,using existing property on the plant they have all expanded and expanded again using state- of- the- art technologies while cleaning up the older producing units and moderizing.
We have countless capped wells in South Louisiana and the surrounding marshes and off shore regions. They are capped and not producing because they contain high levels of sulphur which is very expensive to process at the refining level..Current EPA regulations would not allow more emissions of SO3. I can say that it was nice in one refinery early this am to be on site and look 200yds away on fenced refinery property to see cattle grazing
and on the other , to see cultivated sugar cane thriving with a 220acre fishable lake with bass and sac-a-lait. The only point I'm trying to make is industry and a needed one, is balancing everything the best it can and I feel that were of mistakes in the past largely "for not having been down that road " before. 
Not speaking for any group of people but the firecely independent people of South La. tends to be ,go ahead and suck the entire middle east dry open up limited Artic drilling and develop alternate fuels sources while we have or own capped wells and strategic underground saltdomes brimming full. By the way there is still a 2-3 day wait for the supertankers
to unload off our coasts at the LOOPS. Shortage --no----
Meanwhile we still have the best fishing areas in America!!!


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Global Warming.......pfft. What a joke. A little scare tactic probably started by the EPA or some other "doom/gloom" group. Hell they even have "The Weather Channel" yacking and sobbing about Global Warming. I think its a load of sh!t. .......but hey, thats just my humble opinion.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Curty what brand is your stove, does the corn feed automatically with some kind of auger. I'm going to buikd a new house this year and I think this sounds like somehting I would like to incorporate into the design I like the radiant heat of wood stoves but hate the smell and smoke associated with them. You mention you have to keep yours turned down, if you had it to do over whould you buy a smaller one. how many square foot area is it rated for and are their ratings accurate in your opinion. How long does it heat on a fill up?
Thanks


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## IAHunter (Sep 1, 2003)

M_T

Did just a short search and found the numbers.

"Refineries now operate at 96 % of capacity, whereas the average US manufacturing plant operates at 76.7 % of capacity. Since 1981, when refineries operated at 69 % of their capacity, the number of refineries in the US has dropped from 324 to 153."

It was also stated in the article that a new refinery would cost in the range of $1 billion and take 10 years to build from inception to completion. And I never used the words "damn hippies" you once again are putting words into some one else's mouth. Green groups is a politacally correct term and the NIMB group is a generally accepted term to people fighting anything from Wal Mart to oil refineries to new prisons. I didn't bash them, just pointed out reasons. If you want to argue all the time, go out and talk to a tree because I, once again, am done with you.

IaHunter


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Bobm..Mine is a St.Croix (Auburn model). go to
www.eventempinc.com 
I have done months of research on these before I bought one. From what I have found this is the brand you will want for a couple of very important maintenance reasons.Yes it used a computer controlled auger to feed corn at the right rate.First the free standing types are all about 40,000 btu but I would not go smaller because this was a mild winter.Colder winters will need it to be turned up some. I have to run my furnace (fan only) just to circulate air around the house but its a lot cheaper than running my electric heat banks. Completely empty a 90 pound hopper is about 3 five gallon pails and on low it will run about two days.It sure beats cutting wood :lol: I have saved so much electricity that Otter tail power company has been here more than once trying to find out whats wrong with my meter.


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## Stizostedion vitreum (Feb 2, 2005)

The more oil we earthlings burn/use, the less there is. The world's fuel tank is not infinite. It has a level that never gets added to. It just decreases in volume. The whole thing is run by supply and demand. The oil companies can charge whatever they darn well please. They are not going to sell their product cheap unless it is not in high demand. Electricity is going to be the fuel of the future I am afraid. The days of high powered diesel engines is going to be a thing of the past. When? Don't know, but if the prices skyrocket like that, it might be sooner than later. I can't afford to pay $4 a gallon for fuel. Lots of indusrties will be affected. The fishing industry will hit a brick wall if that comes to pass. People will have to really want to spend that kind of money on a fishing trip, and those people are the few. It will cost me about $60 in fuel just to get my boat to and from the lake, not counting boat fuel. I would seriously consider living near the lake at that point. If the fuel prices go out of control like that, it might be wise to purchase some land or a home in places like Garrison, Riverdale or Coleharbor if you are a person who would rather die than not fish like me. Stizo : )


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Curty these doggone website will never tell you a price or maybe I can't find it. Approximately how much does the Auburn cost? And where is the hooper they talk about is it concealed in the unit, and you say computer controlled where is the computer?


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Heres the bad part....$2000.00


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

I don't know why everyone is so wrapped up on oil from the middle east.
We get very small percentage of oil from them, a drop in the bucket.

Venezuela (south America) is where we get the highest percentage of oil.

Other than the war on terrorism, the other theory why we are over there
is to protect/control the oil from China. China is growing fast and energy
is what they need to power this growth.

Redfishman, is this not correct about Venezuela.

Thanks.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

The leader of Venezuela hate the US and is threatening us at the moment. I don't think we need to do anything but get off foriegn energy supply dependence.

Curty 2000 doesn't sound too bad I added a couple of questions to the post could you reread it and answer those also

Thanks I appreciate your time on this


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## IAHunter (Sep 1, 2003)

Hugo Chavez wants to sell Venezuela's oil to only state ran oil companies (China). One problem, Venezuela's oil is a low quality crude oil and China's refineries are not capable of doing a good job refining it. It would take 15 to 20 years for China to have the capabilities to do proper refining. But China has a long term plan, unlike the US that looks at tomorrow as somewhere waaaaaaaaaaaay down the road. We need to start looking at 10-, 15-, 25-year plans in order to stay commericially competive against China, the European Union, and South America.

IaHunter


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## ej4prmc (Dec 3, 2004)

I just heard on Fox News that oil could reach 100 a barrel in 5 years and 80 in the next two years.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> Did just a short search and found the numbers.
> 
> "Refineries now operate at 96 % of capacity, whereas the average US manufacturing plant operates at 76.7 % of capacity. Since 1981, when refineries operated at 69 % of their capacity, the number of refineries in the US has dropped from 324 to 153."


Where did those numbers come from? It really has little meaning if it came from talon news.


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## mallardhunter (May 15, 2004)

:eyeroll:


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

High price of gas? One suggestion - Buy less of it! Part of the problem is the American's love affair with big gas guzzling vehicles! How many people commute to work all alone in full sized trucks, SUV's? If everyone went for vehicles that would get even a few mpg more than the ones they currently drive, used public transportation whenever possible, car pooled more, actually walked (gasp) for even short distances where they usually drive, rode bikes whenever practical, we wouldn't have such a gas crisis not counting being much healthier to boot! Then, raise gas taxes (gasp) to pay for alternate fuels research. Corn, hydrogen, other renewable resources.
The actual price of gas is a complex problem though, and there are lots of great points raised in everyones previous posts.
Having visited Europe, it is impressive that bigger vehicles are really unusual. After walking (everybody walks in Europe!) around in Paris for a few days, we finally came across what looked like a "big" or "typical" American SUV. We all commented on it, but when we got close, what looked like a bigger vehicle over there was, in fact, a Honda CR-V! Considered to be little over here. Most of the European vehicles were even smaller than a CRV! Europeans and the rest of the world seem to get around just fine with smaller vehicles. Does everyone here really need at least one, or two gas guzzling blemoths??? I'm no "hippie" either!
As someone pointed out, what is going to happen when even some of the rest of the world, like China and other developing countries, want to start to live more like Americans and claim their "share" of the world's resources? What are the current numbers?? USA has around 10% or so of the worlds population but consume at least for the moment 70% of the world's resources?? Don't hold me to those exact numbers but they are pretty close. Point made anyhow!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Forgot to mention - drilling the arctic and some of the other suggestions, in my opinion, are only a temporary fix. At best, a band-aid short term treatment for a serious disease that's not going to go away!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Maybe if we led the way in development of Hydrogen powered vehicles we could have big safe vehicles. If just once Congress would work for us instead of themselves.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Bobm said:


> Maybe if we led the way in development of Hydrogen powered vehicles we could have big safe vehicles. If just once Congress would work for us instead of themselves.


Isin't that your boys in congress? Even such switching to hydrogen isint terribly necissary, all we have to do is spend a few more dollars a barrel to get it from the secure nordic countries.


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## lake 17 (Sep 25, 2004)

Seems to me congress is working for their friends: the big oil friends


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

Huntnfishnhabitathugger said:


> Forgot to mention - drilling the arctic and some of the other suggestions, in my opinion, are only a temporary fix. At best, a band-aid short term treatment for a serious disease that's not going to go away!


YOur right, it is only a band-aid. But we need to do something to buy us some time, while we work on alternative fuels. I used to be against ANWR drilling but now I see the need to do it. Of course strict guidelines would need to be met, but we have come a long way since the 70s in regards to drilling and refining practices.


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

headhunter said:


> Global Warming.......pfft. What a joke. A little scare tactic probably started by the EPA or some other "doom/gloom" group. Hell they even have "The Weather Channel" yacking and sobbing about Global Warming. I think its a load of sh!t. .......but hey, thats just my humble opinion.


Another post from headhunter that is nothing short of brilliant :roll:


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

Where will the oil from ANWR Go? What percent of the Alaska oil from Valdez come to our shores. From what my contacts in Alaska tell me most of it goes to Japan and Asia. While we are at it why don't we deveope the oil shale in Colorado, Canada is exporting oil to us from the tar sands in Alberta and I understand that they have the cost down so its cheaper then some of our imports from else where.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I've been reading about the hydrogen thing and apparently the mazda rotary engine is a prime candidate for it they have already developed a hydrogen version of the that engine. Thats an engine design that could easily power the big safe SUV's we Americans like.

no emissions, renewable all you really need is water and electricity to make it I wonder what we are waiting for we all need to start emailing our congressmen and asking them that question.

http://www.monito.com/wankel/hydrogen.html


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

JDpete.......Shut up. How old are you? 19? Bet I'm close.


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

Good Morning everyone,

I think there are several reasons why Hydrogen power has not taken off.

1. It is new technology, of course.

2. This type of power will take education. This is not just your average
gas run engine. Can you imagine Paris Hilton using a Hydrogen car.

3. We are not willing yet to accept other means of power. Like Europe 
the bicycle and walking will become popular.

4. We are not willing to give up our gas guzzling vehicles.

5. It is not all doom and gloom, we will over come and be on top again.
There are new power technologies just around the corner coming our way.

8)


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

Interesting discussion; points to ponder: Gas at $2 per gallon is still cheaper than it was in the 1970's. 
BP, Chevron, Shell have all announced that they are not interested in drilling in ANWR in the last two weeks (not economically feasible).

Hydrogen is a great idea, but has three major problems to overcome (very explosive, hard to store, how will distribution system work).

I agree, as I have posted before, that the Big 3 US automakers, are not interested in fuel efficient technology or vehicles. Just look at Europe (population 430 million) and who sells the most cars there with their gas prices. Cars sold by the Big 3 in Europe get much better gas mileage than the same cars they sell to Americans at almost the same price and most of the cars are from Japanese/German makers who already make high efficiency vehicles. I get about 50mpg from my VW Jetta bought in this country, and its safety rating is better than any similiar vehicle made by the Big 3.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Sounds interesting Bobm. Just to play the devils advocate here, though. Water we have, but it takes electricity to get the hydrogen out of it. Where do we get the electricity? No more rivers to dam. Coal or Nuclear? Too many NIBY (not in my back yard!) types. Solar? Wind? Lots of wind farms going up here in windy North Dakota. We need lots of research and development on all this new stuff, but who is going to pay for it? Unless some company already has deep pockets to fund it and stands to make a buck or three on it, it won't happen. I'm old enough to remember at least two major fuel crises, lines at the pumps and all that, and each time everyone pledges to do R & D and fix it so it will never happen again. Then a new source of oil is found or the world settles down, and it NEVER happens!! A few years after all these crises, we end up MORE dependent on foreign oil, driving bigger and more vehicles, building bigger houses to heat and cool, using less public transportation, burning more oil to produce more electricity lots of which we waste, and on and on. People forget really fast! We never learn a lesson and focus on short term band aid solutions. We really are an energy wasteful society, and I'm as guilty as the next guy.
Even though I'm really pro private enterprise, I'm starting to think that the only entity that will actually do the needed R & D is the government. They could get the money by taxing gas, (politically unpopular so probably wouldn't happen) or taxing something (politicians are good at thinking of something to tax!), and might be capable of doing something like that, if they got the politics out of it! LOL Anyway, unless we fix the problem all the other solutions such as drilling the NWR, tar sands, more well drilling and uncapping marginal ones, etc. are all short term,temporary and stopgap at best, and if history repeats itself, will only delay tackling the real problem. Again, my opinion only.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Just read today's paper and see that the Teddy Rooseveldt Group of the Sierra Club is doing a screening of the film "Oil on Ice" at the ND Heritage Center at 7 pm next Sunday. Doors open at 6:30 pm with a preview (whatever that is) of a gas-electric hybrid Toyota Prius. A discussion of renewable sources of energy will follow.
I'm not a member of the Sierra club although I seem to be a member of just about every other outdoor or wildlife club!) Will this film be biased and opinionated? Of course, but I'm open minded and curious, and plan to be there. Should be interesting and timely to this topic.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> We really are an energy wasteful society, and I'm as guilty as the next guy


.

so true habitat hugger.... I have been saying this for about ten years now. We will go down in history as the people who used up the nonrenewable resources and will most likely be remembered as the most selfish, destructive people that have ever lived on this planet. 8)

What will the history books say about us???? How do we want to be remembered??? Those are two questions everyone should ask themselves!!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

The show I saw the other night had solar panels for electricity and they were working hard to refine development of them, one guy had developed a panel that while not as efficient in full sunshine as existing panels it was better in dim light so it would function well all day the other thing he did was design a panel that would function well if one of the cells was damaged which is another shortcoming of the current design. The other big sources for electricity was steam turbines using steam from burning garbage and boilers drivein using the various forms of bio-diesel. I like solar and think it should be the main research project of NASA to bring it to practicality. They aren't going to send any astronauts up for the next 10 years or so this would be a more useful project for them. Seems to me if they can figure out how to send a ship to mars they ought to be able to do this they already have the infrastruture and scientists in place to do it.

Greenland or Iceland I forgot which, is blessed with tremendous natural geothermal heat to create steam and drive turbines to generate electricity. I don't know enough about that to comment on if its doable here. 
Indsport has the jetta been a trouble free car otherwise, I've been looking at VWs but they have some pretty bad writeups and quality issues. I like them but have been afraid of the problems claimed on some of the web sites.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Greenland or Iceland I forgot which, is blessed with tramendous natural geothermal heat to create steam and drive turbines to generate electricity


There are alot of geo-thermal wells in CA around El Centro and to the west towards Thermal CA. They have been developing them for over 20 years.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Apparently they have already figured out a way to make hydrogen safe.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002 ... 45317.html

Gas isn't all that safe either in the wrong situation.

IDsport did you see my question about your VW?? I've been wanting to buy one but wondering if they really have a the little problems that are claimed in the reviews. I need a comfortable, safe, fuel efficient car.

Have you had much trouble with your Jetta and do you think a 6'4" tall person would be comfortable in one. I was in a Beetle and it was nice and had a lot of room in it( front seat). I would prefer the Jetta Wagon though just have'nt had a chance to go test drive one yet.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Bobm, a close friend of mine who is 6' 6" tall has a 3 year old Jetta and fits without problems. He says he gets fantastic mileage with it, it's quiet and comfortable, has enough power to pass anything he wants, but says it is quite a maintenance hog with the nearest dealer being almost 200 miles away. Unreliability has been his main pet peeve with it.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

thats the same things I've been reading about VW. I sure wish Toyota and honda would bring their deisels over here. My toyota truck is a trouble free vehicle.
Zero problems over 100,000 miles


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## dakotadux (Nov 9, 2003)

I'm gonna go with a moped...strap my shotgun to the handlebars, drag a bag of dekes behind, and the dog can trot along beside me!
:wink:


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## ej4prmc (Dec 3, 2004)

I hope that dog is a GSP, it should have all piss and vinger out of it by the time you reach the field :beer:


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

bobm, the jetta I have is a diesel wagon 100% made in Germany, rather than the gas version which had injector problems and a host of other problems and is assembled in Mexico. Of the 5 Jetta diesels I know of, none have had any problems. BTW, I am 6-2 and we have driven it on trips of 1000 miles and were comfortable, plus it will hold 2 large labradors in the back. Yes, I do have an SUV for towing the boat and hunting season but put about 4,000 miles per year on it.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

[No message]


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Indsport thanks, Which transmission did you get manual or auto and how many miles have you put on it so far? My friend with the diesle beetle has about 100,000 miles on his with only one little problem so far, he like it also but I want a Jetta wagon for the same reason dogs and junk in the back


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

I see that Shell executives are looking at the oil shale in Colorado again.and think they could produce shale oil at $15.00 to $25,00 a barrel of crude oil.
By some calculations the Piceance Basin alone contains 300 billion barrels of recoverable petroleum. They had one boom that went bust but may be they are serious this time. :beer:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Yeah it looks promising, make you wonder about Shell stock. I guess if they perfect it though that will kill any iniative for alternatives, which has a environmental downside. But I sure would love to be able to ignore the Middle east.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Shhh...Pretty quiet on Pennsylvania Avenue. Someone must be making a lot of money with the price of oil. Life is good for Texas crude.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> Shhh...Pretty quiet on Pennsylvania Avenue. Someone must be making a lot of money with the price of oil. Life is good for Texas crude.


What specifically does this mean???


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Ditto on this one!!! A naive Bob is not the Bob that I know!!


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

He's humpin' Bush for the price of crude and or gas. :eyeroll:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

4CurlRedleg said:


> He's humpin' Bush for the price of crude and or gas. :eyeroll:


Maybe thats because he lets it go on. Gas is a a lot cheaper to produce than we are getting it for right now, the refining companies and shipping companies have free reign to charge whatever they like because the president and his family are in bed with them.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Much of what you wear and use hunting comes from the petrochemical industry. Plastics (calls, decoys, fishing line), fabrics and coatings on fabrics and much of your pick-up truck, synthetic gun stocks, just to name a few.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

As I noted in March posts about fuel efficient vehicles from GM and Ford, an article printed today is proving my point that GM and Ford are so far behind the curve with fuel efficiency and emissions. The article went on to describe how much foreign car makers are gaining market share and how both manufacturers are now expressing surprise that SUV sales are rapidly falling.

"DETROIT, April 22 - Setting aside its home base in the Upper Midwest, Detroit has a blue state problem - and it is about to get worse.

Washington and Oregon plan to become the 9th and 10th states to adopt California's tough car emissions rules, forming an increasingly potent market for more fuel-efficient vehicles on the West Coast and in the Northeast.
The states that already follow California's stringent tailpipe emissions rules also happened to fall in the blue column of the 2004 presidential election: Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont.

The electoral power of those states may fall well short of a majority but their buying power is still formidable, which puts considerable pressure on automakers to develop more fuel-efficient vehicles. Together, the 10 coastal states account for 29 percent of the nation's auto market, according to R. L. Polk, which tracks car registration data.

Further pressure comes from Canada, which recently forced automakers to agree to substantial cuts in emissions of global warming gases; "


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## IAHunter (Sep 1, 2003)

Here is something for all of you to mull over.http://www.discover.com/issues/jul-04/features/anything-into-oil. Here is another article http://www.p2pays.org/ref/32/31035.htm

This technology could be the cats meow for us. All of the waste we produce could start going back into oils. And if anyone is thinking this might be a sham or crackpot idea, there are some big names involved in the capitalization of this with big monies.

I keep saying, all it takes in the US is for some genius to figure out a way to make something work and the knack to make money off it. Capitalism works, government intervention rarely does. These are the guys who will save the US.

"If it grows, tax it. If it keeps growing, regulate it. If it stops growing, subsidize it"--Ronald Reagan describing Washington D.C.'s theory on business


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Amazing article is there any other articles that describe the process that you know of?? I'd like to read them. 
I can't wait to see honda bring over their diesel accord, its claimed to get 75 MPG. Something like this will bring a lot of small diesels into our market. Keep something like that as a daily driver and a big truck for towing the horsetrailer and I'd be covered.


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