# Results of the Tax Cuts



## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

Here's an interesting link. However you feel about how much taxes the rich pay, it's still a fact that the administration kept saying that this would not be the outcome.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5689001/


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I don't remember Bush saying that , he said the rich will get more of a break because they are paying far more of the taxes which the story admits.


> The tax cuts this year will boost the income of millionaires by 10.1 percent, while middle-income families see a boost of 2.3 percent, the Democrats said.


Tax cuts don't boost peoples income, *they allow people to keep more of the money they earned*



> Besides, Holt said, looking narrowly at the distribution of tax cuts ignores the broader benefits -- such as investment, consumer spending, and job creation -- that flow from leaving more money in people's hands and which are spread far more evenly through the economy.


The economy HAS BEEN RECOVERING and the tax cuts helped that occur.



> > But Republicans predicted that Kerry will make the report a major political event, and Furman said the results will be too stark to *spin.[/*quote]
> 
> 
> "Spin" is a word that insinuates an intentional misrepresentation of the facts. And is exactly what Kerry will do with this report.
> ...


That is probably correct because the middle income people have more money in total to contribute because of the sheer numbers of them compared to the rich. I saw a mathmatical analisis of the total monies needed to run the government and it said *If you took all the money from the rich it would only run the government for a month or two *( I admit I'm doing that from memory) the point being the rest of us should be contributing we get the lions share of the benfits from the govenment.

I could continue to pick this apart but whats the use :eyeroll: 
This report is just a continuation of the class warfare the Democrat politicians have to promote to divide ignorant people that don't understand the facts. Its a shame everyone does not read all they can on these issues, so they will probably get away with it, to all our detriment both Republican and Democrat. We need honest tax reform, the *way taxes are levied* should not be used for social reform it allows politicians to buy votes. Tax dollars fairly collected without regard to income could be used for socially responsible activities and if we all are contributing our actual "fair share" then we will all be watch dogs to make sure its not wasted. Fairtax.org


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

We've had a flurry of news coverage and political activity this past week on the Fair Tax plan. In response to a question at a town hall meeting, President Bush said that the idea of a national retail sales tax is worth some attention. John Kerry jumped right in with the absurd statement that "Families already squeezed by rising health care costs, gas costs and college costs would have to carry a whole new tax burden."

Now ... those of you who are familiar with the plan for a national retail sales tax know that Kerry's statement is an absolute lie. *Families caught in a financial squeeze would actually end up with more money in their pockets under the Fair Tax plan then they have under our current tax system.*

So ... the question is this. Is Kerry simply uninformed about the details of the Fair Tax, or does he know the truth and decided that this would be a good time to demagogue the Fair Tax in order to play the class warfare game. *I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he does not know what the plan says, most of our Congressional members don't.* We all ought to demand that our reps on both sides of the aisle read it and study it until they do know what it actually does.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Do you know why I dislike Bush's tax cuts? Because I am a student, I go to an advanced school that relys on taxpayer funds to stay open, so did my best friend. This year his school was shut down due to a lack of funds. That was his ticket into college, his parents aren't willing to help him out and he now has nothing to show from his high school years. I suppose if you are not in school currently it can be quite hard to see the effects, but I can assure you these cuts are not helping out my generation at all. If we want a better America in the future we need a better educated population today, and tax cuts aren't the way to get there.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

MT the cold hard fact is that the taxpayers aren't responsible for his college education, he and his parents are, if they are too worthless to help him (provided they are in a position to) then its his and his alone. If you ask your government to take money (at the point of a gun which is the reality of our tax system) from some other taxpayer for your friends education thats money they don't have for their own kids.
If this kid is college material then he can and should find a way with school loans, working part time and scholarships of various types. I joined the army during the Vietnam war ( tells you how stupid I was when I was a kid) so I could qualify for the GI bill so I could go to college. While I was in college I worked second shift in a furniture factory. My dad was a mechanic with 6 other kids after me and when I graduated high school I got a handshake and the recommendation to find a job or join the army and do it quickly. Anyone that wants to go to college in this country can, nothing worth having comes easy. Tell your friend to toughen up, life is a constant struggle and the sooner he and you accept that the better off you will be, its a tough thing to realize but its part of growing up, a big part. By the way, this country spends more money per student than most industrialized countries but our students continue to fall behind other countries scholastically so money is not the problem.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

You bet, I barrowed for my college from the State Bank of North Dakota, and they spread my payments out over ten years. My middle son joined the army and spent a year in Korea. I think it was camp Kacey about six miles from North Korea. Both my other boys worked their way through college. My youngest still in college puts in about 32 hours a week while he attends school.


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## pointer99 (Jan 16, 2004)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Do you know why I dislike Bush's tax cuts? Because I am a student, I go to an advanced school that relys on taxpayer funds to stay open, so did my best friend. This year his school was shut down due to a lack of funds.


I went to college without any government help. Worked my butt off. i'm not too sympathetic to your plight here. it's not the responsibility of the taxpayers to fund your education.

[/quote]That was his ticket into college, his parents aren't willing to help him out and he now has nothing to show from his high school years.[/quote]

there are other schools. tell him to get a job and save his money or get a student loan.

>>>>>>>
I suppose if you are not in school currently it can be quite hard to see the effects, but I can assure you these cuts are not helping out my generation at all. If we want a better America in the future we need a better educated population today, and tax cuts aren't the way to get there.
<<<<<<<<<<

i can't wait for you to get out of school and get a job. we don't want to hear no *****in and monin out of you when you see that you work until about may to pay your taxes.

it will be likehello, welcome to the real world.

pointer[/quote]


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"I went to college without any government help. Worked my butt off. i'm not too sympathetic to your plight here. it's not the responsibility of the taxpayers to fund your education. "

I'm sorry but I'm not going to respond to you if you didn't even read what wrote, its a buddy of mine.


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

MT what is an ADVANCED SCHOOL? Is it a private prep school. Is it a Vo Tech? I never heard that terminology before. And why is it necessary to attend one of these schools to go to college? I went to college and went to a regular old high school.


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## pointer99 (Jan 16, 2004)

Militant_Tiger said:


> "I went to college without any government help. Worked my butt off. i'm not too sympathetic to your plight here. it's not the responsibility of the taxpayers to fund your education. "
> 
> I'm sorry but I'm not going to respond to you if you didn't even read what wrote, its a buddy of mine.


you said o you know why I dislike Bush's tax cuts? Because I am a student, I go to an advanced school that relys on taxpayer funds to stay open, so did my best friend. This year his school was shut down due to a lack of funds.

Notice you said:"i am a student and i go to an advanced school.

you said: I'm sorry but I'm not going to respond to you if you didn't even read what wrote, its a buddy of mine.[/quote]

Okie dokie then.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

It's a math science and technology school that gets you bonus points when applying for college. Its basically advanced classes in physics, trigonometry, and such.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Anyone that can master those subjects should and can go to college, the saying "where there is a will theres a way" applies here. Try hard it will be worth it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT

With that kind of smarts you should make a good income when you get our of college. It's too bad that much of your income will be taken away at the ballot box by the lazy who want something for nothing, and think you should give it to them. After all if you make a good income it will be your fault because they are failures right? Let's see, get four years of college free, spend the rest of your life paying tens of thousands in taxes so others go to school free. Well, I guess it's not free, you will be paying for it, and paying for it, and paying for it. Then when you die maybe they can tax your children's inheritance and you can pay from the grave.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

''God hath not promised 
''Skies always blue .... 
''God hath not promised 
''Sun without rain, 
''Joy without sorrow, 
''Peace without pain.''


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## pointer99 (Jan 16, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> MT
> 
> With that kind of smarts you should make a good income when you get our of college. It's too bad that much of your income will be taken away at the ballot box by the lazy who want something for nothing, and think you should give it to them. After all if you make a good income it will be your fault because they are failures right? Let's see, get four years of college free, spend the rest of your life paying tens of thousands in taxes so others go to school free. Well, I guess it's not free, you will be paying for it, and paying for it, and paying for it. Then when you die maybe they can tax your children's inheritance and you can pay from the grave.


good post

pointer


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

Okay Mt you need to clarify somethings here. You go to an advanced school that will help you get into college but you worked your butt off in college?

It is a fact that anyone can go to college these days even the guy that had the 1.1 GPA in High School can get in to state schools. But maybe your above the state schools. Maybe it's Ivy league or bust. Whatever, The facts are if you want to go to college you will and that is because of the 1% of taxpayers out there paying 30% of all the taxes. These advanced schools sound like Prep schools to me. And they don't come cheap. So drop out of the Advanced school and save the tuition there so you can go to a junior college for two years then a state school for two years. Or keep whining that you are owed this from us either way you will go to college. What you do there is up to you.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Well my local newspaper shows that there has been a decrease in manufacturing jobs in the past two months, their solution? Better education system.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Tiger the solution to your job situation is education try to determine what this country is going to need for the next twenty years and get into it. Medicine is a good one the countries population is growing older. If the government doesn't socialize it and the trail lawyers stay out of it you can make a lot of money.
Engineering is good, probably anything in IT . The bottom line is get the training you need to do some job that every Tom, Dick and Harry can't do and then you will make a good living. ( And you will become a conservative :wink: ) Good luck. 
Just do it and quit worring about it, things work out if you work at them, its not going to be dropped in your lap you have to make it happen.
If you don't have a clue what you want to do just take a general business major until you do. Its applicable to almost any job.


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## pointer99 (Jan 16, 2004)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Well my local newspaper shows that there has been a decrease in manufacturing jobs in the past two months, their solution? Better education system.


your local newspaper should have sited that stupid trade policy{NAFTA} is one of the causes in loss of manufacturing jobs. a better education system might provide training but if the jobs aren't there then what does it help?

since we are on the topic of tax cuts..... aren't tax cuts supposed to spur the economy and create new jobs?

pointer


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Yes and they have. The reality is that the new jobs are not in manufacturing those jobs are gradually dissapearing due to computerization and outsourceing. PBS had an interesting topic about this last night. The jist of which is that the new jobs will be jobs that computers cannot accomplish, they say jobs that connot be described by rules and yes/ no criteria are not about to be replaced by computers. The two examples they gave were sales and auto mechanics. The claim was that even the indians that are currently getting the benefit of our outsourcing will lose their jobs to computers as software gets better. You should train in a job that is considered face to face where only a human can do it because rules cannot be written to describe it. A dentist or doctor is another example. Machinist type jobs are gone from this country, because a computer can and will eventually do all these type jobs. This trend has really hurt the pump business because we depend on industry as our customer base.


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## pointer99 (Jan 16, 2004)

Bobm said:


> Yes and they have. The reality is that the new jobs are not in manufacturing those jobs are gradually dissapearing due to computerization and outsourceing.


_thought so but just wanted to be sure. when i am unsure of something i reference the bible and the constitution and now bobm. thanks bob._

pointer[/b]


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I don't think I'm in the same class as your other two references, but thanks for the compliment


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I found this little discussion very interesting.....The Congressional Budget Office has produced a new set of statistics showing who pays what taxes in America. The lyin' left has seized on these statistics to say that the CBO figures show that the George Bush tax cuts shifted a good bit of the tax burden from the rich to the middle class.

Not so fast. Just in case you run across some of these news stories, and in case you actually believe that the federal income tax burden has been shifted from the rich to the middle class, there's something you need to know.

*The media wanted to take these CBO numbers and report them in a way that would make the Bush tax cuts look bad.* :eyeroll: It's all part of the template. If you can spin a story so that it looks favorable to Kerry, and bad for Bush ... do it. *How do you monkey with the CBO figures to accomplish this? Simple ... you include Social Security and Medicare taxes in your equation. The Bush tax cuts cut income tax rates, not Social Security or Medicare rates.* The only fair way to report on how these tax cuts affected the various income levels would be to cite income tax rates only. *Guess what? If you only include numbers from who is paying what federal income taxes you will find that the rich are paying a higher percentage of income taxes collected by the federal government now than they were before the tax cuts!!! *Now those of you educated in government schools may think that it's impossible to cut tax rates on the rich and then have them pay an even higher percentage of the taxes. Try to think outside the government school box. It has been proven time and time again that when you lower tax rates on the rich ... when you allow the rich to keep a higher percentage of the money that they work for and earn ... they will work even harder to earn even more! As they work harder they end up paying more income taxes than before, even though their actual tax rate is lower.

It's simple. Reward the rich ( or anyone for that matter) for their efforts, and they'll work even harder. The harder they work, the more taxes they pay. Now, after the tax cuts, they're shouldering an even higher percentage of the burden then before. *This is a message the media doesn't want to convey, because it's a message that supports Bush's tax cuts. That's why they're playing with the numbers.*


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## pointer99 (Jan 16, 2004)

Bobm said:


> I found this little discussion very interesting.....The Congressional Budget Office has produced a new set of statistics showing who pays what taxes in America. The lyin' left has seized on these statistics to say that the CBO figures show that the George Bush tax cuts shifted a good bit of the tax burden from the rich.
> 
> >>>>>yep and they make these arguments all of the time without merit. it looks like the american people would wise up.<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> It's simple. Reward the rich ( or anyone for that matter) for their efforts, and they'll work even harder. The harder they work, the more taxes they pay. Now, after the tax cuts, they're shouldering an even higher percentage of the burden then before.


i've seen this first hand. had a friend that busted his azz and made about a half a mil one year under clinton. after he had paid in what he thought should have covered his tax bill at the end of the year he still owed about 60 thousand. he now tkaes it easy and makes about 50 thousand a year and has vowed he will never work like that again and carry that kind of tax burden. that post is classic bobby. keep em comin.

pointer


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

If you want to reward someone for hard effort, fine. But I'm not down with rewarding people for winning the genetic lottery and being born into a life were you never have to work and can just get by on the interest of your inherited fortune. To the Hiltons and the Waltons of the world, I say tax the **** out of them, especially the Waltons, because the way things are going someday we will live in the United States of Wal-Mart, open 24 hours (but not til noon on Sunday). Are any other middle class people worried about the plight of the overtaxed heir or heiress? Because I'll give you great odds that they're not too worried about our tax burden!


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Mt,
You may be smarter than average, possiblly brilant but its your smart alec way of talking that will hold you back when you grow up. You must be a very bitter unhappy young man. :2cents: Sorry every post of yours comes off that way to me.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

SWF you have succumbed to the politicians successfully tricking you into class warfare. Don;t worry about how much money others have worry about your own education and job skills and you will be happier. The lawful pursuit of wealth is the American dream and the basis of capitalism the most succesful form of goverment the world has known. Someone else paying high taxes will not help you one bit.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

:beer: U.S. Economy Creates 144,000 New Jobs 
Friday, September 03, 2004

WASHINGTON - U.S. employers added 144,000 workers to their payrolls in August and hiring totals for the two prior months were revised up as the job market brightened, the Labor Department (search) reported on Friday.

The unemployment rate (search) dipped to 5.4 percent last month from 5.5 percent in July. But the drop in the jobless rate in August came as people left the work force for any number of reasons, the Labor Department said. Economists were predicting the jobless rate to hold steady in August.

The gain in payrolls was short of the 150,000 net jobs that economists were calling for. However, it represented the biggest jobs gain since May and marked the 12th month in a row that payrolls grew.

Job gains for July were revised up to 73,000, still a lackluster number but an improvement from the 32,000 advance first estimated. Payrolls for June also were revised up to show a larger gain than first reported.

The latest snapshot of the jobs climate comes just two months before the presidential election. President Bush, who hurried back to the campaign trail after accepting the Republican party's nomination for a second term Thursday, and his Democratic rival, John Kerry, joust frequently over the health of the economy and the availability of jobs.

The report created a slightly more favorable picture for summer job growth, but is likely to leave unresolved for now whether the economy was successfully shaking off a June soft patch as Federal Reserve (search) policymakers expect it to do.

In August retail and automobile sales came in sluggish, consumer confidence dropped and manufacturing activity grew at a slower pace.

The Fed, in a bid to keep inflation from becoming a problem, boosted short-term interest rates twice this year. That has left a key rate controlled by the Fed at 1.50 percent, still low by historical standards. The Fed's next meeting is Sept. 21. Some economists believe the Fed will push rates by another one-quarter percentage point at that time.

Economists want to see at least 200,000 net jobs added a month on a consistent basis before declaring the labor market fully healed.

The payrolls figure and the unemployment rate can sometimes go in different directions because they are derived from two separate statistical surveys.

The unemployment rate is calculated from a survey of around 60,000 households in which people are asked to state whether they have jobs or are looking for work. The unemployment rate in August fell as the labor force shrank by 152,000 from the previous month.

The survey used to calculate the payroll figure -- seen as a better barometer of the labor market's health by many economist -- is based on information from about 160,000 businesses and government agencies, covering roughly 400,000 individual work sites.

Reuters and the Associated Press contributed to this report

Oh know, now what are you libs going to do.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Those damn tax cuts, now look what there doing, creating jobs, dang it anyhow!!!!!! :beer: :sniper:


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

How about this:



> *Census: More Americans living in poverty
> Number of uninsured also rises*
> Tuesday, August 31, 2004 Posted: 2:54 PM EDT (1854 GMT)
> 
> ...


Yep, that economy is looking better all the time.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

If rolling back tax cuts for the richest 2% can help fund our severely depleted education resources, then yes, Bob, it can help me - it can help us all when we fix our nations schools. Lawful pursuit of wealth may be one thing, but cooked books, offshore havens and tax-free inheritances of more than seven figures make me pretty ****** off. Like I said, not too many rich people seem worried about the plight of the overtaxed middle-class American, but why are so many in the middle scared to death that some billionaire may have to pay a bit more in taxes? I think he or she will manage to pull through.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Those tax cuts are so bad that minority home ownership is up 29%. Dang it anyhow.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

Wow, way to insert a random fact to try and brighten up an otherwise dreary economic report by the OMB, a division of the White House. Sounds like somebody went to the Karl Rove Community College of Argumentation. Nice work.
Minorities may be buying more homes, I just hope they actually get to vote in FL this time around.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Oh come now SWF you really have not bought into that get to vote in Florida have you? Isn't that liberal rhetoric a dead horse? If you would like to talk about Florida do you remember the democrats trying to throw out the absentee military votes? Did you notice who the felons in prison voted for? Those two things to me show the character of the democratic party. . It is an indication that they don't like the military, and they know the military doesn't like them. The felon vote indicated that criminals know the democrats will go easier on them than republicans. After all if they shoot someone it is the gun's fault right?


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Nice one plains.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Great post to read Plainsman!


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