# Mosin M44



## blackace

I saw this rifle on sale for $100 at the local sporting goods store. Ive never herd of this rifle and was wary because It was only $100. Ive herd russian rifles are known for reliableable. Has any one used/shot this rifle or know what kind of accuracy you could get out of it?


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## sdeprie

Never had one myself, but have heard some of the same. They would appear to be very awkward and not very strong, but this apparently is not the case. They are in general very smooth and more than strong enough for the 7.62x54 in which they are chambered, which is very similar to the 308 Win. It shoots the same bullet so reloading is not a great challenge. The ammunition is relatively available. They can be very accurate, depending on the particular rifle. They are so cheap because there is suc a glut on the market after the Soviet Union shut down and Russia released them for sale to bolster their economy. They have a split receiver so it is difficult to mount regular scope mounts, but there are quality side mounts available. It was the same rifle used by Russian snipers during WWII (see the movie "The Enemy Within"). I have wanted to get one just for my collection, but have had higher priorities so far. But then, I'm crazy, so don't mind me. Are they worth it to use for deer hunting? Probably. Will they take deer, elk, etc? Definitely.


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## Bobm

> 7.62x54 in


Hate to have to carry a box of those


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## sdeprie

In which, not inches. :-? 7.62x54mm (Thanks for keeping me honest.) I did have a couple of 5"54's at one time, but my wife made me get rid of them. She got tired of moving them around. Other than that, did I screw up anywhere else?


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## MossyMO

Last Winter I purchased my 2 sons and myself each a Yugoslavian SKS 7.62X39 and we love them, inexpensive to purchase and shoot. Then I learned of the M44 7.62X54 and added it to my wish list. Freind of mine has the Polish version M43 and 3 weeks ago another freind of mine got himself a M44. Well my birthday was yesterday and my wife gave me a M44 !!! This caliber is very similar to the .308, except in the cost of the gun and like the SKS, ammunition is quite inexpensive. Check out the link to the a website that guide's you through sporting out a M44. I plan on doing this to mine for the '05 deer season. http://www.surplusrifle.com/carbinenaga ... /index.asp


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## Militant_Tiger

The ruskys weren't exactly known for their quality of products during the wwII era, so I wouldn't expect it to be a tack driver, but it will almost surely be reliable, and is rather cheap. If you want a dedicated deer rifle that you will be confident with out past 100 yards, I suggest something else.


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## blackace

Im not looking to hunt deer with it. I just saw it and it was cheap. Im just was thinking that it would be fun to shoot!!! Besides its a kind of a classic (I like classic cars, guns, lighters, rock ect.) Eariler I posted about wolf ammo. I did some research and found russian ammo works best in russian guns!!! Im still thinking about it!


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## blackace

By the way I open for suggistions on a good gun to buy thats fun to shoot and fairly accurate. I pretty open on calibers as long as there easy to find and not too expensive. The price and "novilty" of owing this gun is what got my attention. Thanx


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## Militant_Tiger

if you just want a fun and historical gun get a m1 carbine. The 7.62 will have your shoulder sore after about a box, the m1 you can shoot all day.


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## blackace

How much does a M-1 run for? Are the 30 caliber rounds easy to find? Im not much of a hunter myself, I know you hunt deer and such with 7.62, what are .30 caliber bullets good for?


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## james s melson

Stick with the M-44 lots of gun for $100, it wont kill you at the range, tons of history, cheap to shoot. The M-1 .30 carbine is a low power obsolete caliber. At least you could hunt with the M-44 if you wanted to.


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## sdeprie

What MT wrote is right, the Russkies weren't known in some ways for quality as we know it, but they also used those same guns in the shooting competitions, at olympics, etc, and if not winners, were competitors. You may get lucky and get one of the tack drivers, or one of the boat anchors. But they will be safe to shoot. As far as recoil, you can shoot the 30 carbine all day in comfort, but you can shoot the SKS round 7.62x39 (mm) almost as long and it can be used for hunting bigger game than I would with the 30 carbine. I think ammo and guns are also cheaper than the 30 carbine, although not as cheap as the Mosin.


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## blackace

Militant_Tiger said eariler that after a box of ammo your sholder would be gone after a box. Most of my experaince is with shotguns. Im a big skeet shooter that decided to try rifles and liked them too. How does the 7.62mm felt recoil compair to a 12 gauge! I can shoot skeet all day (and have been known to!)


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## Militant_Tiger

oh its a 7.62 x 39? oops. bad reading on my part. i thought we were talking 7.62 x 54r, that would beat you to death. carbines dont come cheap at all, so this might be a good starter gun for you.


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## MossyMO

The M44's recoil is not that bad. There is considerable kick, but nothing that will leave stiff and sore. My youngest son and I have fired 15 rounds through ours, he shot approximentlly have of the shots, he is 14 and weighs 125 lbs., he likes the gun and wants to get one for himself.

blackace, if you are from my area, your more than welcome to take a couple test fires with mine. :sniper:


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## blackace

I dont think I will have a problem. I am 185 pounds and am used to the recoil of a shotgun! Thanks guys!


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## dlip

You, militant tiger or whoever said somethin about the m1 carbine, I've never known too much about them except what I've heard from my grandparents who served (thay say its p.o.s.) BUT it killed a bunch of men in ww2, so it cant be to bad of a rifle when it comes to reliability and power.I've also heard that they go pretty hard on the pocket, I hear they are pretty expensive(ammo and gun), soo, how much does a box of cheap 30 carbine ammo cost, because I'm gettin the itch.


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## Militant_Tiger

why not just check winchesters site?


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## Azian

My father bought a pair of M44's while I was in basic training. His goal was to have something to do when I returned home. They were brand new (still covered in cozmolene) and he only paid 50 bcuks for each. These rifles are pretty interesting. They include the long folding bayonet and a cleaning rod with the rifle. You can buy rounds real chep through just about any magazine and they really don't have much recoil. I have shot hundreds of rounds through mine and I would consider it one of the most accurate rifles I have shot with Iron sights. I love it and plan to use it for one of my doe tags here in montana this year. The open sights adds another challenge for one of my many hunts I am blessed to go on this year. I wouldn't listen to anyone talk bad about this rifle, especially if they haven't owned one. I have also owned a .30 cal. M-1 when I was younger. Very compact and lightweight. Lots of fun to shoot and I have never had any reliability problems with it. A great pieve of history if you don't mind spending over $400 and up for one. Bullets are fairly expensive as well.


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## mr.trooper

Um, MT: "If you want a dedicated deer rifle that you will be confident with out past 100 yards, I suggest something else."

The Russian Snipers used mosins. if you want accurac, get the ones with the full length barrel. its accurate enough t shoot past 100 yards.


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## MossyMO

There is nothing wrong with using a M-44 for deer hunting. The people saying you shouldn't do not know what they are talking about.

FYI - The Mosins used by Russian snipers were the model 91/30. 300 to 500 yard accurate shots are not uncommon for these rifles.


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## OneShotOneKill

*7.62x54R RUSSIAN*
Bore dimensions vary in these rifles from .308" up to .311".
If your barrel is smaller than .310, .308 diameter bullets are probably a better choice, but you must check your bore! This is a relatively low pressure cartridge, not nearly are high as the 308 Winchester.


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## bluewolf

*hello, new to site. while searching for topics on my m44 ran across this site and topic. after reading all that was said about the russian m44 i have decided to post my own comments. i have the shorter version of the m44, not the sniper model. i myself have shot several boxes of both hunting loads and FMJ's. this gun is very reliable, cheap and cheap to shoot. my shoulder had no problem with recoil, ears will ring after a few rounds though. several of us around here have these guns, 3 cases worth at $80 a piece. i use the open sights, havent and wont add scope. i have used this gun the last 4 years for deer hunting, 1 shot and deer travel about 10 to 15 feet before death. the gun is very accurate. as far as distance shooting, well it will. i have taken it to shooting range and can hit target at over 100 yards. but cant hit it dead on as the front sight at this point is much larger than target itself. let alone trying to see it. i'm sure with an after market scope mount which you can get from S&K hitting target dead on at 100 yards would be any problem. i guess i cant say enough about this rifle, its a real good gun. i also have the sks 7.62x39 rifle as well. its a great gun and many i have talked to who served in veitnam would throw there M16 down and take an sks if found because it was reliable, same with ak-47. it will also take a deer down but most time you'll have to track it for awhile. the m44 on the other hand will knock them down quickly. keep up the discussion, imformation can only help us more*


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## farmerj

Couple of issues here....

The 7.62X54R is similar in ballistics to the .303 Brit, .308, and .30-06 and 8mm. Of them all, the .308 and the .30-06 are the most accurate.

The M91-30 is the full length rifle. The M38 is the carbine version and the M44 is the carbine version with a folding bayonet.

The 91-30 is very accurate. Tends to like the 175-210 gr bullets better than the carbines. The M38 tends to be a little more accurate than the M44. The M44 tends to be more accurate with the bayonet extended.

The 7.62X54R uses a .311 diameter bullet. The .308 and .30-0 use a .308 diameter bullet.

Of the rifles I own, the M44, M38, 91-30, M14, M1, Rem 788 in both .308 and .243,, they are ALL very capable deer and elk capable rifles. The .243 is a possible, but unlikely elk gun. I am a little more leary of the Mosins in the field for hunting, not because the gun is Russian, Which the quality of workmanship is excellent on all of them, but because of the design of the safety. Is a pull type button on the end of the bolt, which is difficult to work. If it is difficult to work, it is not likely to be used. And that is just plain dangerous.

Anyone that says just because it is s communist block weapon, it isn't accurate, needs to go take a closer look at their history and manufacturing facts on these weapons. It is a interesting story to research. I got interested in them as Curio's and Relic's. And they are quickly turn into much more than just a gun.


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## chiefsix

Mosin's are 7.62X54. I have owned the shorter carbine version, and it was inaccurate and had extractor problems. Ammo is cheap, but check the barrel of any military surplus gun you purchase. many of the mosins are practically smooth bore muskets....The full length mosins are naturally more accurate than the carbines. And although the Russians did use them in WW2 for sniping, you should be sure that you are getting a RUSSIAN mosin and not a Chinese or other copy, which are numerous and of lesser quality. It is a hard hitting cartridge, but mine really didnt recoil all that bad, but it was stout. The metal butt plate probably doesnt help matters. The bottom line is if you get a GOOD QUALITY RUSSIAN MADE mosin they are fun and reliable...but there are many mosin copies out there that are wore out junk that will shoot for another hundred rounds or so but are in poor condition and innaccurate due to shot out rifling and muzzle nicks which are common in surplus guns. Bottom line is: Just be picky about what you buy.

As far as the M1, they are a bit pricier and are in no way hunting weapons. I have spoke to many veterans who say the weapon is notoriously under-powered. They have told me that they could shake the bullets out of a cardboard target at 100 yds.The ballistics on the cartridge lead me to beleive this is probably the case. I own one and have had extratcor problems with it as well. I know it wouldnt penetrate 1" plywood at 150 yds with surplus ammo, other brands may perform better. The ammo is not cheap and I wouldnt reccommend the gun for plinking for cost and maintance issues. A good sks is a better option for a good , cheap, fun day of reliable shooting.


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## farmerj

chiefsix said:


> Mosin's are 7.62X54. I have owned the shorter carbine version, and it was inaccurate and had extractor problems. Ammo is cheap, but check the barrel of any military surplus gun you purchase. many of the mosins are practically smooth bore muskets....The full length mosins are naturally more accurate than the carbines. And although the Russians did use them in WW2 for sniping, you should be sure that you are getting a RUSSIAN mosin and not a Chinese or other copy, which are numerous and of lesser quality. It is a hard hitting cartridge, but mine really didnt recoil all that bad, but it was stout. The metal butt plate probably doesnt help matters. The bottom line is if you get a GOOD QUALITY RUSSIAN MADE mosin they are fun and reliable...but there are many mosin copies out there that are wore out junk that will shoot for another hundred rounds or so but are in poor condition and innaccurate due to shot out rifling and muzzle nicks which are common in surplus guns. Bottom line is: Just be picky about what you buy.
> 
> As far as the M1, they are a bit pricier and are in no way hunting weapons. I have spoke to many veterans who say the weapon is notoriously under-powered. They have told me that they could shake the bullets out of a cardboard target at 100 yds.The ballistics on the cartridge lead me to beleive this is probably the case. I own one and have had extratcor problems with it as well. I know it wouldnt penetrate 1" plywood at 150 yds with surplus ammo, other brands may perform better. The ammo is not cheap and I wouldnt reccommend the gun for plinking for cost and maintance issues. A good sks is a better option for a good , cheap, fun day of reliable shooting.


Not sure where yuo have been buying your "junk" but I have to disagree with EVERYTHING you have said.

The milsurps are just like any weapon you buy, you need to be picky about it all, not just milsurps. These weapons are/were known to be used with corrosive ammunition. So yes, the barrels will look darker, have some pitting and POSSIBLY been worn. But they are far from junk.

I have an arsenal refinished Mosin 1944 which has been counterbored on the muzzle and will shoot under 3" at 100yds all day for me. "Geez, thats bad groups." Not really, when you concider for military purposes, they were only required to meet a 4" group requirment.

As to the M1, Care to come shoot mine? At 100 yds I will penetrate 1"steel plate with surplus ammo. Enough so, the range has asked me NOT to shoot at the reactive plate targets with it and surplus ammunition. Even with commercial amunition, I don't care to shoot it. It will still penetrate almost 3/8".

If this "weapon" is "underpowered" I would suggest you look at what you are calling underpowered. It is the venerable .30-06. Nothing else.

As to accuracy, mine is a stock M1 Garand that came from the CMP. It will keep it on the paper at 1000 yds on an NRA target. Granted the target is 6'X6'. But just the fact the lowest point value is 7 is significant of something.

As to your extractor problems, I am not sure what to say. There are a coouble of problems that would lead to it and if fixed correctly will lead to a fully functioning and reliable weapon.

You are the first person I have heard say the M1 is anything BUT "the greatest military weapon ever built" (Patton)


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## chiefsix

FIRST,

QUOTE:
"......You are the first person I have heard say the M1 is anything BUT "the greatest military weapon ever built" (Patton)...."

Fact: Patton was refering to the 3006' M1 garand, not the M1 carbine.

QUOTE:
2.".....If this "weapon" is "underpowered" I would suggest you look at what you are calling underpowered. It is the venerable .30-06. Nothing else..."

I just know you arent saying that a M1 garand/3006 is less powerfull than a 3006'. If you are, we may as well end this disscussion now. The 3006 is far from venerable, as it is still one of the most common hunting calibers in use. If anything is venerable its the .30 carbine cartridge.

3. I never said I bought the junk that was out there, only that alot of milsurp mosin copies are junk. The weapon I own is of reasonable condition and I'm refering to rifling wear not a dirty bore. My mosin will not in any way shoot 3" groups at 100 yds. 6" maybe on a good day. I fancy myself a decent marksman who learned to shoot in the Marine Corps.

4. I said, and agreed, that numerous veterans told me that the .30 cal M1 CARBINE was underpowered for its purpose. Although it had range on the .45 colt, dont pretend to tell me it was as good a man-stopper. That is exactly why the .45 was developed, poor performance by the .38 cal revolvers in third world conflicts. There are 2 ways to look at fire power.. yes, you had range and mag capacity if you subscribe to the spray and pray philosophy. But many GI's prefered the reliable power of the .45. Admittedly, the M1 carbine did have the advantage of mag capcity and full auto on the M2's and M3 carbines. But it needed it. The gun was preferable to many officers and secondline troops..to a stanard side arm or the heavy garand.(as well as some front line ones Id guess) due to it's light weight. IT WAS NOT A "BAD" WEAPON, only lacking in firepower in many veteran's opinions who used them.

5. My extractor problems on the M1 Carbine were due to a bad extractor spring retaining pin that was wore out as it was a milsurp weapon. Other than that, my M1 performed "ok" at close range on soft targets. You have an exceptional M1 CARBINE that will penetrate 1" steel plate at anything over 50 yards. Im not saying yours won't, only that mine won't, and I've never seen one that would. But then again I've never seen a honest politician either, but doesnt mean they arent out there.

6. By my definition, any rifle with a worn and pitted barrell that shoots poor groups is junk.-Not withstanding its historical value. Refinished and quality Mosins are not what Im talking about..as I said. I said ,check what you buy as many are junk-(by my definition, which may be different than yours). If you are into collecting and refinishing mosins, im sure no mosin is junk to you, and I respect that opinion. Some mosins will shoot well and accurately I have no doubt, but clearly I was not refering to those. My bottom line, as I recall, was to be carefull not to buy junk, as it is very easy to do due to the numerous mosins on the milsurp market that are junk. like numerous other milsurp rifles that are regardless of type,. In the context of new production and war time service, the mosins were reasonably reliable, effective weapons. But I'm talking about 60 years and 5,000 rds later.

7. I'd have to disagree with you that your chances of getting a " junk" new manufacture rifle are the same as buying 60 year old used milsurp..

And thats the beauty of America isnt it? we can agree to disagree. :wink:

[/quote]


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## farmerj

Seems there is the confusion...

I do not own a M1 CARBINE...but the M1 GARAND.

The M1 Carbine IS a short range weapon that would be a conversation peice as far as I am concerned. It is also illegal to hunt with this weapon.

The M1 GARAND...now we have a weapon....


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## chiefsix

I was hoping confusion was the case farmerj, because you seem far to knowledgeable about firearms to have made that comparison. :lol: You are right, the garand in my experince with them, are fine weapons, almost flawless, except for the smashed thumbs you get while loading... :- Otherwise I love mine. and ur right, as far as deer, Id even rather have a 223 anyday if given the choice between it and a 30carbine. If youll notice, shooting 00buck is like shooting a load of 30 carbine bullets all at once ,same size- compareable velocity- now imagine shooting one 00buck pellet at a time at a deer...  Id rather throw rocks.My 30 carbine wont break 1" plywood at 150 yds.....Im hoping its just the loads... :roll:

By the way, did the Finns make a version of the Mosin, and what is it's quality like compared to the others?


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## farmerj

The Finns version would be the M39.

It is generally concidered the holy grail of the Mosins just behind the M41B sniper version. Of the ones I have seen, fit and finish are incredible.

Someday.... :thumb:


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## chiefsix

Farmerj,

I saw a guy at the range shooting what was obviously a Mosin, but it look like the finnish was alot better than mine. This guy was hitting half gallon milk jugs with open sites at around 100 yards with this rifle. whenI looked at it he said it was a Finnish Mosin-nagant. I can see how it could be given Finlands history and border with Russia, but given the superior craftsman ship to my Mosin, I thought maybe it was just a Russian gun and the guy was mistaken, The finish was markedly better and the action was almost as good as that on my model 70.-- Just wondering where I may find one :-? But from what your saying Im assuming it isnt likely, if they are rare. He said he paid 250.00 for his. Watching it shoot, id say it was a bargain.

Chiefsix


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## farmerj

Samco has the Swedish M41B. About $1200.

Comparisons of different Mosins.

More Info on the Finish Rifles.

Gunbroker has 2-3 listed for about $350

Florida Gun Works has them for $169. Never dealt with them so I don't know how they are to work with.


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## STEVE ERWIN

i have an M44 carbine that i have shot feral pigs and goats with out to 100 yards, with no complaints. I would have to say however, it is the loudest gun i have ever fired, and is actually hurts my ears, does not just make them ring. I was down at the range last week, and a guy couldnt work out why his 308win's bolt was jamming after ever shot. It turned out he was firing 7.62x54 rounds through it...........hehe. The range officer was not happy. I think he may have been confused because 7.62x54 are also called 308russian. As for the M44'S, great guns as far as ww2 military rilfles go, and FMJ ammo is still cheap here in Australia.


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## mr.trooper

"I just know you arent saying that a M1 garand/3006 is less powerfull than a 3006'. If you are, we may as well end this disscussion now. The 3006 is far from venerable, as it is still one of the most common hunting calibers in use. If anything is venerable its the .30 carbine cartridge."

--I think we are confusing "Venerable" with "Vulnerable" again. :lol:

just to set it strait:

"VENERABLE"= proven, reliable, or trusted.

"VULNERABLE"= weak, or unreliable.

Come on! the .30 carbine is great for blastin groundhogs! k:


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## bigalathenstn

i have a mosin nagant 7.62x54R its been in my family for years,always been a reliable good shootin gun and its cheap to shoot too


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## tr0b3

Pardon the latent posting on this topic, but I just wanted to make a comment about the M44. I have owned mine (Russian model) for just over a year and have had only a few problems. First is that it's a little tricky to load ammo into the magazine. I have tried a few different brands of 54R and all gave me the same results. I have heard this is a common issue and can generally be avoided with stripper clips. Another problem, is that the magazine assembly catch on the bottom seems to open up after a shot or two, throwing the remaining rounds to the ground. When the catch is closed it looks pretty sturdy and is even difficult to open with my fingers. I figure it must be due to the violent recoil and of course is, probably, specific to my rifle (this has been fixed by bending the catch a bit). Speaking of which, someone mentioned above that the recoil isn't very difficult to manage... I'm sorry, I disagree. This rifle is a beast to shoot standing. Although, on a bag, pod, rest, etc it's fine. As a matter of fact, I was quite surprised at how much this rifle bucked -- and it did bruise after a few boxes of ammo (Wolf - which I paid about 7 bucks a box). I am also no small fry at 6' 215lbs, btw. As far as the accuracy is concerned it's fine. Of course, it's a carbine, so don't plan on doing very well outside 100yds, although it's not insanely difficult or anything. The rifle can also be scoped without a problem with a Long-Eye-Relief scope mount from S&K which is VERY easy to configure. The Ironsights on the M44 can easily be removed and replaced. Dismantling the rifle is also just as easy. In my opinion this is one of the best rifles for the price. Don't pass it up.


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## Militant_Tiger

I am rather confused by this thread as well. The m44 is a short barreled 7.62x54R. A cartridge nearly the equal of the 30-06 and 8mm mauser. Because of its short barrel however I have read that recoil and muzzleblast are enormous. The reason that I am confused is that someone states that it was in 7.62x39, the AK and SKS caliber, which has very little recoil, but is however not what the m44 was ever chambered in.


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## tr0b3

I also forgot to mention something about the bayonet. It makes the front end of the M44 very heavy and seems to give the rifle a tendancy to shoot to the right a bit (while standing - heh, maybe it's just me). Although, when bayonet extended, the rifle shoots very well. I don't recommend removing the bayonet as it looks pretty ugly afterward -- it's also a piece of history, so... if you can, look for the M38, same rifle but bayonet-less. I also wanted to make a comment about using the rifle for hunting. The 54R is more than capable of taking most large game in North America without a problem and, without the bayonet, is a nice lightweight hunting rifle (ATI monte carlo stock really helps out there too and also reduces the kick quite a bit). Right now I'm gearing mine up for a boar hunt.


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## link-2008

I also have an original Mosin Nagan M44 for a number of years now. I shot it first about 20 years ago while training in the former Soviet Union. A properly maintained weapon and a decent set of optics can improve your shooting significantly. I can shoot 3" groups at 300 yards with my M44. Tear and wear can make loading ammo a bit tricky and the pull-back safety is not easy to handle with gloves. Other than that, it is a good, solid, fairly reliable and very affordable weapon to shoot. With a 7.62x54R you can take down ANY animal at 200 yards or so. You can graduate from that into any other caliber or rifle based on you physical/bio type


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## texcl

Mosins are a good sound bolt action rifle I have owned multiple m91's, 91-30's, m38's, m44's, m28's, m28-30's,m39's and 10 or so original PU sniper models. I have had pretty good luck with the m44 while harder to shoot than any of the full length rifles it is capable of taking deer out to 200 yards. I read many of you are having extraction problems and blame it on the rifle, this is most likely not the case. Most surplus 7.62x54r ammo is machine gun ammo which has steel cases and is loaded fairly hot, this combo leads to extraction problems in a bolt gun, espeacially the type with laquered casings. I had 2000 rounds of some CZ ammo that would begin to stick within 5 rounds and I had to carry a wooden mallet to open the bolt, but it was very accurate and otherwise good stuff. the M44 will make a great brush gun and $100 is pretty good as so long as the bore is good check the top of the chamber for the year it was made, if it is a 1946,47,48 or 49 model snap it up those were the best years and were made to a higher standard. If you get extraction problems switch ammo. The rifles are super durable.


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## Ambush Hunter

Allow me to correct some posters here because obviously they are in the dark.

Mosin Nagants were designed in 1891 so any talk about comparison with Garands is a nonsense. Plus one is a bolt, the other one is semi.

MN was not the only one used by the Soviet snipers during WWII. Another very successful rifle was semi-auto SVT (Tokarev)

7.62x54R does not stand for "Russian". It stands for "Rim". Also, it's MORE powerful than .308 and LESS than 30-06.

Soviet weapons of the WWII era were EXTREMELY reliable in ANY weather while German rifles had broken firing pins and frozen-shut bolts due to extreme cold. American weapons did not experience true Russian winters so let's not compare apples to oranges.

MN is the ONLY military bolt action rifle that was produced in INSANE numbers.

Russians DID NOT start selling MN rifles because it needed the economy boost. This is the most ridiculous thought I have ever heard. That's what oil and gas are for. On the top of that, dozen of other countries produced these rifles.

Good luck getting TRUE Russian/Soviet MN. Just like true AK-47 and SVDs, these cost THOUSANDS of dollars and are NOT available in gun stores. What you see and buy are copies and mix and match guns.

MN was one of the most accurate bolt rifles during both World Wars. The longest kill of Vasiliy Zaitzev was just under 800 yards. The Americans didn't even have sniper programs during the war. The demand for good snipers was only realized by the end of the war.

The quality of the Russian guns was outstanding. They did not care how the gun looks like. No one cried because their Tokarev did not look as shiny and cool as 1911. The number ONE priority was RELIABILITY and SIMPLICITY of operation and maintenence.

Right before the WWI, the Russians had a contract with the German Zeiss for equipping MN rifles with German-made mounts and scopes. When the first World War started, the contract was interrupted never to be renewed again. Do the math how accurate those rifles were.

Now, back to the guy at the very top of the thread, these are FUN guns to shoot. All you have to do is to check the bore because some of them are used so extensively the crown does not exist anymore. But if you are serious about MN rifle, get a Finnish copy.

And oh, there is NO such thing as .308 Russian. Also there is NO such thing as a smooth bore Mosin Nagant!!! Please, leave remarks like that for the first grade kids to talk about 

The last thing before I disappear, I don't know who is shooting 3" groups at 100 yards but my MN shoots MOA and no deer will walk away even if it's 600 meters away. Talking about quality and accuracy of the weapon that was designed in the 19th century!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Stinky Findings

Moisens are fun shooters and at 89.00 to 100.00 cheap if you buy on tear it down clean it get all of the bolt esp. firing pin regrease just like newer stuff if you don't you may get hang fires. I would slug the bore to find out what size it is.


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## hogcaller

You left one correction out.....the movie wasn't called "The Enemy Within", it was "Enemy at the Gates". :wink:


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## texcl

Cabelas has a rack of mosin nagant 91/30's for $150 ea. I'd take a 91/30 over a carbine in most circumstances, they are easier to shoot than a carbine and you certainly don't have as much of a recoil/ muzzle blast issue. I've been collecting mosins ever since I got my 03 FFL and it is true that they are generally very good shooters and surplus 7.62x54 is still easy to come by.


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