# Over-stressing the birds



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

I was just talking to a guy who said he isn't planning on going out this weekend because it's going to be cold and with the snow we just got he's worried about over-stressing the birds. I'm wondering if this is a legitimate concern, or whether he's being overly cautious (considering that we're running out of time).

What do you guys think?


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

I've heard that argument...But, considering the average life expectancy of a pheasant is 11 months, I think it's our civic duty to thin them out while we can. :lol: You can't BANK pheasants for next year. In a perfect world we need the majority of hens to make it over the winter, but many don't...And we only need a few roosters. One cock will service up to 18 hens in the springtime...(much like one of my hunting partners :lol: ) A farmer friend from Regent told me in the winter when the birds come into the farm yards at night to feed, if you have too many roosters...the roosters will literaly kill the hens when they try to eat.

This has been a very crazy season with the corn just coming off a couple a weeks ago and lot's of snow out west for a good part of the season. I know we have many roosters that we need to thin out for the good of the population.

Just got back from the SW and you would not believe the Roosters...Fields of hundreds...with very little cover and with a more typical North Dakota winter shaping up...I say get before they die anyway.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Rick I fully agree with harvesting as many roosters as we can to a point! When temps are like they are now especially with the wind, these birds pushed out of cover are very susceptible to hypothermia. Having lived on a farm and found dead birds with full crop after extreme cold I will not push birds out of protection in sub zero temps.

Now that is not saying season should be closed, but a bit of common sense is needed by us in pursuing birds. Granted we can only shoot roosters, but how many hens will die pushed away from that cattail slough in -40 wind chill. They are not a native bird like sharp tails.


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## Coach529 (Dec 22, 2004)

I do not worry to much about stressing them, but Ron brings up a couple good points. To protect the hens I do not hunt in the late afternoon/ late evening to avoid pushing them from a nice warm roost out into the cold.


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

I like comments from everyone on this subject. A little common sense goes a long way. Rick is right that its tough to hunt too many roosters in an area, but when its bitter cold, the pheasants (both roosters and hens) need a little reprive.

I like the idea of not hunting the afternoon/evening. This allows the birds a good feed and good roost.

I don't think feed will be an issue after this last storm (blowing snow with clear fields), and I would have no problem hunting this coming weekend. The birds have had plenty of time to get some feed. If you are out this weekend, try not to push the same birds around all day if its cold out. This doesn't allow a good feed, which is essential for survival.


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## Bigdog (Aug 13, 2003)

I have not held off hunting in the cold very much but I have avoided times when it was freezing/near freezing rain or heavy snow storms. Maybe not a legitimate concern but I feel bad kicking hens out of cover in bad weather. Getting soft in middle age.


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## Bagman (Oct 17, 2002)

muskat said:


> This doesn't allow a good feed, which is essential for survival.


Also "essential for survival" is NOT BEING SHOT. There is talk of another possible storm front in the next few days...and we are only in MID Dec! This looks to be shaping up as the worst winter since 1997...certainly the worst start (to winter) since then. If you value seeing birds next year and beyond, it may be a good idea to let them battle mother nature the rest of the way...and not your shotguns and dogs. With the loss of much valuable nesting cover (CRP) they already have a strike against them for next spring and beyond. After the ferocity of that storm, I cant justify chasing these critters around during the final days of the season.


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

I really doubt that chasing them out of cover for the short time that you are in there is going to cause any abnormal amount of mortality due to the weather. If they're gonna die due to the weather, they're gonna die due to the weather no matter if you chased them or not IMO.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Ron,

My thoughts pretty much follow what you expressed. Coach, good idea about easing off afternoon hunting.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

slough said:


> I really doubt that chasing them out of cover for the short time that you are in there is going to cause any abnormal amount of mortality due to the weather. If they're gonna die due to the weather, they're gonna die due to the weather no matter if you chased them or not IMO.


Sorry to say this, but you have a very short sighted view of the complex nature of survival of these birds. Food is critical but heat loss is the real key to them being able to weather the weather. They are no different than us in battling wind chill. For example Monday after the storm I spent a good portion of the day outside blowing snow. To do this I put on layers of clothes with wind block outer shell to reduce the affects the wind and cold had on my body. Since pheasants are not a native bird they do not have the down under layer that grouse do or other cold climate birds. They depend upon shelter to restrict the loss of heat. Heavy cattails, and shelter belts with undergrowth are where they go. You will not find them in the middle of a harvested corn field roosting and when they feed they seek areas with reduced wind activity as well.

So flushing that group of birds out of the cattails during sub zero times is adding a level of stress that may be the tipping point!


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

Ron, you know what your talking about, but...Let's face it...where we hunt in the S.E. every oz. of cover is cattails in corn or beans. Food and cover wherever they go. I realize some fields are better than others and depth of snow and other factors come into play, but me pushing birds from one slough in a cornfield to another slough in a cornfield is not going to cause the end of these birds as we know it. 
Bagmans statement...On the loss of CRP is going to be critical for the pheasant population in future years...That is a fact, but as stated before. YOU CAN'T BANK pheasants. Only so many are going to survive each winter and hunting has very little to do with it. Period. Be smart and enjoy it now, because there are lean years to come, unless CRP comes around.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Interesting topic. Ron makes a good argument.


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## stevebakken (Dec 9, 2008)

Are you insane!?! If I were a pheasant, I'd be over-stressed about lack of cover, too much snow, bitterly cold temps, lack of food or over population of roosters to hens(optimun is 1 rooster to 10-12 hens) rather than Elmer Fudd taking a 60yd shot in late December, bundled up with a 30 mph wind in their face. To paraphrase one of my favorite wildlife biologists..."kill more of them, they're just going to die!" If we don't harvest them then they'll wind up frozen in a field, slough bottom, roadside, farm yard, etc... What everyone seems to forget, especially in the SW, is that you CAN"T BANKS BIRDS! The land will only hold so many and the birds will adapt to the conditions of their environment by mortality rates through the winter and spring hatchings. Basically, the more cover and food equals more birds. The less cover and food equal fewer birds...it's pretty simple math. As for the rest of this season, bundle up and I'll see you in the field Elmer.


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## roostman (Jan 20, 2006)

I have to agree with what Stevebakken and Rick is saying, the life of most pheasants is a year at most, with less cover every year it only make since to take as many roosters out as you can before winter really hits hard and the season is over. The roosters will fight the hens for food and cover, shoot them while you can because next year there may not be many around. If hens dies because we push them out of cover now they will never make it through the winter later, they will be coyote lunch or end up dying in a blizzard, the strong will survive and the weak die, thats just the way it is, that is the life cycle of any animal. So I say if you can handle the cold and the snow get your butts outside and shoot some Roosters.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Guys you all are missing the point, I agree with Rick and others that you cannot bank birds. In fact the more roosters harvested the better the survival of the hens in an area. But you cannot take away the fact that pushing the birds into harsh conditions with severe wind chill is stressing them more in an already stressed time.

My point and comments are to be wise in hunting them. Personally I will not on those wind chill advisory days. Not because it is to cold for me but for the stated reasons.

That is all. You cannot bank them but causing the early demise of hens that would not perish otherwise is reducing population potential for next season!


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## roostman (Jan 20, 2006)

I can see your point Ron but with hunting season only lasting until the first weekend in January I would still hunt them hard until the end of the season. I wrote earlier that the roosters will fight the hens for food and cover, the more roosters left the harder it is on the hens. If the weak hens die over being over stressed so be it, it will be more food and cover later for the stronger ones to survive with not haven to fight off so many roosters. I still say huntem hard until the end of the season, get the dogs out and enjoy, this may be the last great pheasant season we have in a while.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Roostman I guess my view was formed from my years on the farm watching wildlife struggle with weather as well as predators. Back in the 80's I was coyote hunting south west of New Salem on a ranch. While conditions where not harsh in regards to snow and food was plentiful we found countless dead frozen hens and roosters as well that stayed in marginal cover because of a pair of Golden eagles. Even though the area they where in provided good overhead cover it did not provide good protection from the wind and as temps dropped the birds died. We thawed a few out and found them fat, crops full but dead anyway.

So yes we should get out and hunt them but having a bit of sense of the vulnerability that these birds face in sub zero temps with strong winds should also play a part.

Funny thing is that even in 97 that rancher friend had a lot of pheasants that survived around his property even during the ice storms come spring. His farm site has an average wind breaks. Yes some birds died but he stopped allowing hunting in mid Dec that year and others in his area did not. They lost the majority of their birds and some of of those places had superior wind breaks and habitat for wintering birds. But they died before season closed because they where pushed using up energy needed for staying warm and or getting pushed into areas that had less wind protection and they did not recover.

We can attempt to justify it by saying we are helping by reducing roosters, but my gut and observations tell me we are not being good stewards pursuing them under those harsh conditions!


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Man, I'm glad I started this thread! There's a lot of interesting opinions here.

Ron, are you pretty much declaring this season over (for yourself anyhow), or is there a temperature above which you'd consider going out yet this year?


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

No the season is not over for me, I am not concerned about snow depth and food at this point. Today temps are rising and wind is down and we have sunshine. Even though the sun is at its lowest power point of the year it still provides a warming effect for the birds.

I would hunt today and any other day similar to this. I am not a shirt sleeve only hunter by any means!

Each person has to make the call as to what they want to do. All I wanted to do is get people thinking about things. I am not comfortable hunting birds in sub zero conditions with -50 wind chill levels. Others may and that is their choice. I would not stop and chastise someone I encountered out hunting roosters on a day like that either.

But this thread was posted to gather input and opinions, I gave mine. People can do with it what they chose.


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## get the net (Oct 28, 2004)

Somebody do the math for me, X = total number of pheasants in ND.
Y = the number of hunters willing to hunt in extreme weather, (minus whatever windchill) and then figure out what the total would be for hens overstressed by being kicked out of a roost between 3:30 and 4:45 pm. I hunted yesterday and by far the most productive times of the day for actually harvesting the roosters was early and late when they were still in the cats. Rest of the day saw a total of hundreds of birds where they were unhuntable, in the middle of plowing, cornstubble etc.. When we did bump birds they flew from one side of the slough to the other, or to another slough a 1/4 mile away. Enough held tight enough to have a sucessful hunt. Bust the Roost, sounds like a duck hunting thread.


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## verg (Aug 21, 2006)

I understand the points of some pressuring in the birds but I guess If I really have to take a side..I'd disagree. My best hunting this year has been on nasty days. If you think about it, some say an average pheasant life is 11 months. So say a rooster is hatched in May-then he may live to April. (on average) So what is the difference if you shoot him in Dec vs living to April? I guess to me not so much. Take the number of hunters actually out hunting in adverse conditions vs the number of birds and I really don't think they are getting pressured too much. Maybe if you took one parcel of land I could see that but all in all I don't believe it. Heck, the sloughs I've been walking the birds kick out and fly right to another one. I really doubt the birds are highly pressured this time of year-again, maybe in a general area but not state wide to where it affects the health of the population.
Just my thinking


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I personally won't go out for a couple days after a storm, depending on the storm. I don't see any wrong with people hunting them in a storm or right after a storm. Its just a personal choice. I would hate if someone would kick me out of a nice warm area when its cold out.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

I plan on shooting a few over the next several days. If I have to stress them a little before I kill them, so be it! :wink: 
Burl


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

Just got back from "over stressin'" the birds in the S.E. :beer: J/K teasin' Ron! I did just get back from God's country and hunted Friday and Saturday in perhaps the worst conditions I've ever hunted. -8 temp, NW winds over 35 and bitterly cold wind chills. We did very well and what a rewarding hunt in those conditions.

Did not observe any dead pheasants from the extreme conditions from the last couple of weeks. Birds seemed fine and very jumpy as expected for this time of year.

I agree with Ron that you could stress the birds if you had weeks upon weeks of nasty conditions, but the other thing to take into consideration...Nobody but a few die hards are hunting right now. Other than a few people we saw at the hotel, nobody was out. If we had the number of hunters out like we do the first couple of weeks of the season, I could see where over-stressing could come into play.

Biologist Doug Leir gave his opinion on this topic over the weekend on the radio in Fargo and he stressed..Get em' while you can and take advantage of it. Having too many roosters into Jan, Feb & March is going to be more devestating than the possibility of pushing hens out of cover and causing some mortality.

Again, everybodys opinion is welcome and I certainly respect yours Ron! Hope you get out a few more times.


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## pheasantslayer (May 13, 2004)

I also just got in from an arctic pheasant hunt as well. Only people that were out today. I also agree that you should hunt with some moderation. I have seen the most problems when hunters push the birds out of the only groves of trees around, then come back every 20 minutes when they fly back in and pound them again throughout the day. From this I have seen a few dead birds. I have to say as well that go out and get them while you can, way too many roosters left in the country and not many hunters out. Good luck to all who go out again and manage to hit one or two of the wily buggers.


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## ChukarBob (Sep 4, 2006)

2 friends and I just decided to cancel our northwest North Dakota hunt between Christmas and New Year's. Factors included the difficult 1250 mile drive from Seattle to our hunting grounds and the difficulty of hunting birds in heavy snow. Although temperatures seem to be moderating, we worried about the stress for the birds in even modestly severe conditions. It wasn't just one factor, but a number of factors, that led to this decision.

So, while I will miss this opportunity for a truly grand pheasant hunt, there's always next year (notwithstanding the loss of the CRP program, etc.). North Dakota pheasant hunting is a wonderful experience, but I don't need it to eat, or even eat well. Even if it's misguided, misinformed, or just wrong-headed, I'm happy to give the birds a break.

This has been an enjoyable forum topic and it is great that everyone can offer an opinion that is respected even if not agreed with.

Having said all of this, my farm manager friend is hammering geese right now in eastern Oregon and duty calls.


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## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

The one in my area are feeding during the warmest part of the day.
IMO, this could be a hard winter, and many will not make it anyway. So shoot as many roosters as you can now. You never know what the storms will be like during the hatch. So many variables will factor in between now and next year, I can't see how thinning a few roosters out of the THOUSANDS that are left will matter.

(date on phots is wrong, they were taken todayP)


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