# Stud Dog



## buckyboy (Dec 29, 2008)

My dog has very good petigree. more than half of his family are FC of INT FC. Infact his sister is a FC. and i was wondering how much i could make by studing him out.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Just because he has a pedigree doesn't mean, much you need to train him, if all he'll do is run deer he should not be bred.

Have you had this dog since he was a pup or was he given to you?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

buckyboy said:


> My dog has very good petigree. more than half of his family are FC of INT FC. Infact his sister is a FC. and i was wondering how much i could make by studing him out.


Dogs are judged on their own merits first. What are his credentials?

Unless he himself possesses several different titles, his value as a stud dog is limited or non existant IMO.

Unless you have well known(established) breeders contacting you for his services, chances are his genetics aren't as valuable as you believe them to be. There are many great stud dogs available to pass along the very best genetic traits. Breeding dogs nowadays simply to create (another) litter for the world is not wise. It simply has the effect of watering down the overall genetics of the breed.

Simply because other dogs in his litter, or his parents possessed a couple of titles, isn't sufficient justification for anyone simply to stud their dog out for a couple bucks.

IMO, a litter should come from a pair of dogs that both hold titles, and have titles that go back at least 3 generations on each side. With that as an initial criteria, I would then look at the conformation of the dog with the assistance of someone from a reputable kennel, to determine if the dog possesses desirable size, drive, intellect and hunting intangibles that make him/her a strong candidate to pass on genes.

Based on the criteria above, I'm not inclined to believe he should be bred out.

My .02

Ryan


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## Guest (Jan 3, 2009)

Very good stud dogs with titles, health clearances, and great pedigree's only bring $300-$800 per breeding. Only the really popular studs pay their way. MH studs may only get a breeding or 2 a year. So without titles and health cleances including OFA on Hips, CERF for Eyes, and genetic tests for EIC and CNM I wouldn't expect you to make much if anything.


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## Doogie (Feb 23, 2007)

do you have a stud, that comes from world champions or has "must have blood" if not your looking at $200 or pick of the litter at best. Its all about what you have and if someone else wants it and how much they are willing to pay for it. If your studing him out just for the money, your in the breeding game for the wrong reason.

litters should come from PROVEN dogs, titles or papers dont, retrive, hunt, tree, point,etc game, PROVEN dogs do. Some regisrtys even reuire the dogs proven in real world situations before thier papers are even registered

that being said many in the coonhound world linebreed a bloodline for years, only making outcrosses when needed, I personaly seen a dog bought for thousands, just because she had a paticular bloodline that the guy was looking for, no titles, just the blood the guy was looking for to keep his linebreeding tight.

So unless you have a stud out of a paticular bloodline or out of the "must have" bloodline your SOL on getting rich by studing your dog out.


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## buckyboy (Dec 29, 2008)

i'm not trying to get rich over studing him out. i enjoy hunting with him and thats why i got him. i just want to make a couple $$ on the side, and i figured a good pedigree would help that cause.


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## Guest (Jan 5, 2009)

Join the rest of us including the guys who spend $$ to make the stud worth more!


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

My two cents worth.... If your dog is well bred, has his hip and eye clearances, etc. and you feel that he would be a credit to the breed (he has a sound temperament, is intelligent and trained easily, has good conformation, posses strong hunting and retrieving instincts, etc.) then I see no reason why you shouldn't put him up for stud. You could start by placing an ad in your local newspaper to see if there is any interest.

As far as titles go, they are just one aspect to take a look at. I can name you countless dogs that were field champions that came from non-titled parents (Springers and Chessies......I breed both). Off the top of my head 4 time NFC Saightons Scuc, 2 time NFC Wind Riding Streak, and NFC Denalisunflos Ring (these are all Springers) all came out of non-titled parents. The other thing with titles is that you don't know whether the title was a result of a dog that was extremely easy to train, had tons of natural ability, etc. or if it took a professional trainer months and months of beating his head against a wall to get the dog a title...

Field trials, hunt tests, etc. are not hunting..... Yes, they give us some indication of a dogs ability, but there is no test or trial that really duplicates hunting.

Also, by only breeding dogs with titles we are slowly but surely narrowing the gene pool down. I personally believe there are countless dogs out there.......just wonderful hunting dogs and family companions that could be contributing to the gene pool of whatever breed they might be, but are not bred because people are hung up on titles...

If you decide to put your dog up at stud, just be ready to give people a chance to see the dog perform in the field. Nope, you won't get rich.....might not make a cent but then again you might make enough to pay for a few bags of dog food. :beer:


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2009)

Breeding Springs/Chessies is not the same as labs. There are a million lab owners that think they have the next greatest stud dog. Same goes for most breeds differance is the Labrador breed has a heck of a lot more dogs to pick from. Try selling a litter from a unproven and or untitled stud a let me know how that goes.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

labguy23 said:


> Breeding Springs/Chessies is not the same as labs. There are a million lab owners that think they have the next greatest stud dog. Same goes for most breeds differance is the Labrador breed has a heck of a lot more dogs to pick from. Try selling a litter from a unproven and or untitled stud a let me know how that goes.


Good point. I can't remember the last time I looked in the newspaper and didn't see a litter of Labs for sale. In the springtime it's not unusual for there to be 5 or 6 litters for sale at the same time. With Labs being the most popular dog in the U.S. right now, it's also almost impossible to look at the "Free" ads in the paper without seeing several labs people are trying to find homes for. Labs are a great breed, but when any breed becomes overly popular the breed suffers because of it........everybody and their brother wants to get on the bandwagon and try to make a few bucks.....


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

There was a thread a while back asking why some litters pull so much more money than others. I think this is one of the greatest reasons. While there are many litters of labs avalible at any time. There are a group of people nation wide still trying to keep the proven bloodlines of certain greats going and not just breeding to any female or male for that matter that has the correct health, looks and temperment. These litters are sold for a higher price to keep the more interested parties involved and a select group owning them. Most of the people, that I know anyway that sell litters for $1000 or more are not doing it counting the dollars as they sell the pups, but are very selective and making sure they go to a home that will help enhance the breed.

Just my $.02


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Fosse said:


> There was a thread a while back asking why some litters pull so much more money than others. I think this is one of the greatest reasons. While there are many litters of labs avalible at any time. There are a group of people nation wide still trying to keep the proven bloodlines of certain greats going and not just breeding to any female or male for that matter that has the correct health, looks and temperment. These litters are sold for a higher price to keep the more interested parties involved and a select group owning them. Most of the people, that I know anyway that sell litters for $1000 or more are not doing it counting the dollars as they sell the pups, but are very selective and making sure they go to a home that will help enhance the breed.
> 
> Just my $.02


Great post Fosse, and I wholeheartedly agree. There are simply too many folks breeding labs and watering down the overall genetics.

When we purchased our pups the females sold out before the breeding in a waiting line @ $1200-$1500 a pup. The father of the pups is Mallard found on the site below. As an example of a type of reputable breeder and what they do compared to puppy mills, backyard breeders and folks "trying to make a couple $$'s to pay for dog food" can be found by parsing their website:

http://www.tdkpointinglabs.com/

Take a look at that page. Go look at the criteria they use to select a stud dog. They don't allow their stud dogs to get bred to just any female.

Anyone who has raised a litter of pups will tell you that if you are doing everything correctly with all the shots, vet checks, feeding, etc.. that you will simply not make enough money to make it worth your while trying to recoup costs associated with owning a dog. You breed dogs in order to promote and enhance desirable traits specific to a specific breed or to a specific dog within that breed in particular. You don't breed just to add more dogs of a certain species to the world.

Puppy mills and others that don't do those things are cutting those corners to maintain a higher profit margin at the expense of the overall health of the pup.

Do you want a pup from someone who cares about dogs that little?

The world has enough dogs of all breeds. I personally wish that you had to apply for a dog breeding license from the State Animal Board if a person wants to sell dogs. That license would be needed for every new breeding anyone does. This would make it more of a process that a reputable kennel would do, and discourage fly by night mom and pop backyard breedings.

Unless you are willing to sell pups for > $500, or buy a pup for more than $500, you aren't purchasing anything special given the number of dogs available nowadays. The average hunter would be just as justified to going to a shelter and picking up a very loving neutered lab that would make a fine average hunting dog. (Note that I fully realize that $500 is just some random $$ amount, but it goes to the point that those who are willing to pay to get good bloodlines are looking to pay more for bloodlines. Those thinking that >$750 is too much aren't as keen on perfection, and instead just want a good family dog or average huntin buddy, whereby an average shelter lab will work out just fine and cost 1/5 as much.)

My .04


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## buckyboy (Dec 29, 2008)

that is great advice and thank you. but i have a beagle and are interseted in beagles, not labs, os spaniels or other dogs. thanx again and great advice.


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## buckyboy (Dec 29, 2008)

i paid $200 for my beagle. that is the going rate around here. for a companion beagle is around $100, for a pure bread. As far as a traking dog or a trailing dog i don't know what you mean but i can probaly tell you if you tell me what they mean.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Good discussion...

The fact of the matter is that demand drove price as supply expanded of Labs... because now they are the most popular dog in the US.

Quality will demand a premium as long as those traits are demand driven by the market. But everyone needs to be perfectly honest, demand over recent years has been driven by a very popular book and now movie for yellow labs (Marley and Me). We have all seen it happen with the cocker, the dalmation... and now the it is happening to the lab.

My personal philosophy for breeding my animals is not for profit... I sell my dogs to a select number of family and friends so that I can provide what I see as "improved" versions of the labs that I first bought almost 20 years ago to people that are dear to me and most likely could not afford to buy a comparable dog from someone else. But this is not a selfless act as I am also attempting to improve my line enough that 30 years from now when my ability and health begin to inhibit me from getting the best out of myself and my dogs that I will have the bidability and instinct of my animals to a point that I can enjoy a lifes work. But that is far off and quite lofty... but even if I fall a little short to me it is worth pursueing.

I don't want to sound idealistic (too late) but breeding dogs is quite a resonsibility if you think about what it means to the breed overall. But today there is a place for breeders simply trying to meet the demand of the lay person looking for the next Marley... but a serious question is what happens when demand dries up for another Marley... and people continue to breed to that standard.

This will be interesting to see...


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## DakotaRidge (Nov 25, 2008)

Ryan, do you really believe that a Senior Hunter bred to a Junior Hunter is worth $1200-$1500???? You can buy a Field Champion bred to a Field Champion for that price or less.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

DakotaRidge said:


> Ryan, do you really believe that a Senior Hunter bred to a Junior Hunter is worth $1200-$1500???? You can buy a Field Champion bred to a Field Champion for that price or less.


No I do not believe that.

The above website was representative of a good kennel and how they treat stud dogs.

*edit I see what you are referring to. The pups I was referring to (my pup's littermates) were not from that location. They were out of Mallard though... and he is the current reigning 1.5 X Pointing Lab champ, and is considered one of the top echelon studs for pointing labs at present.


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