# .223 55gr FMJ ? Help quick going out tommorow



## John M (Oct 24, 2005)

Im going out coyote hunting tommorow and wondered if I have to go to the store tommorow and buy a certain type of bullet for the .223 or will the 55 grain full metal jacket be ok?

Thanks 
~John M


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## pennsyltucky (Oct 30, 2005)

the fmj isnt legal in PA for hunting, but u might be able to use it. i wouldnt. not very humane. unless u have a frontal shot, and it smashes the breastplate and goes thru, it probably wont kill it within a reasonable walk.

swing by the walmart and pick up some soft points or somethin.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

John
A full metal jacket will not give you a clean kill as will just about any other style; soft-point, hollow-point, ballistic tip, etc. You may find yourself with added hours of tracking and a coyote with more suffering than would be needed with a full metal jacket. Save yourself and the coyote, I would pick something else up. I believe in ND fmj's are illegal, not sure where you are from? Oh, and good luck tomorrow....... :beer:


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## John M (Oct 24, 2005)

Would they sell a hollow point at my local walmart or gun shop?


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Try give them a call before making the trip there. 
I should have added, the hollow point will do the opposite of a full metal jacket. The exit hole will be quite large. If you discard the hide it may not matter to you, but if you want to keep it or sell it I would suggest a soft-point until you have had the opportunity to test other loads on something not as valuable, say a rabbit. Then you can test what works best for you.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Might I suggest 40 gr VMax. It has been my experience that they are explosive, but lack the mass to exit. This leaves you with a hole in and no hole at all going out.
Full metal are legal in North Dakota. I shot one coyote with a 243 90 gr full metal. He was only 30 yards and I could clearly see the puff of hair where the bullet impacted on the chest area. He ran a half mile, swam the Sheyenne River, and bedded in a brush pile a quarter mile south of the river. I drove around eight miles to find a bridge walked to the brush pile and jumped him. He took off like he was not injured, but I dropped him with a single shot from the same rifle with an 87 gr Hornady hollow point.
I have used full metal successfully on fox, but not coyote.


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## John M (Oct 24, 2005)

Whoa glad im not using the FMJ then, I didnt realize the lack of power they had.


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## dannylilly (Dec 26, 2005)

walmart should carry the 55grain soft point express rifle is what you want. it comes in 20 round box for about 13 dollares.good luck


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## kenny b (Jan 26, 2006)

I shot a coyote the day before yesterday with my .223 at 14 steps with winchester HP and no exit hole, the coyote dropped like a rock.


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

John,

I agree with Plainsman, 40, 50 or 55 gr v-max are great choices. I shoot 40 grainers and have had great luck with them.

Good luck!

jaybic


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

John M said:


> Whoa glad im not using the FMJ then, I didnt realize the lack of power they had.


Its not power. a FMJ has all the power of other cartridges but the bullet is less destructive. You will find FMJ penetrates allot more without expanding, if you were to pop a cottintail or squirrel with your .223 FMJ would be a good choice so you dont blow the animal up.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

The 55gr FMJ will totally come apart at close range. If you are shooting a gun with a standard twist like 1:10 or1:14 the bullet will tumble. I have shot plenty of yotes with a 55gr FMJ and hardly any of them ran more than 10 to 20 yds. Granted the other bullets are much better the FMJ bullet is really not as bad as every one makes them out to be.


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## Cleankill47 (Jan 19, 2006)

For .223, if you have your rifle 'set' for 55-grain loads, go with a soft point or a hollow-point with the same weight. It shouldn't need a whole lot of adjustment. However, the damage will be greater with the heavier load being a hollow-point, so you can downsize to, say, 40 grains, and it may not exit the other side, (Or so I hear), but you will most likely have to adjust your sights.

As for the FMJ, they are good for practice and personnel, but unless you'll be shooting coyotes through a wall, I'd go ahead and buy some of the soft points or hollow points.

On a better note, if you can't get to the store to get any more ammo, the FMJ will work fine, _if_ you have _exact_ shot placement, and/or if you try for all frontal shots. (Through the chest)

Let me know if you need something cleared up. Good luck, and may the dogs come running. :sniper:


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## kenny b (Jan 26, 2006)

Opp's I made a mistake the other day when I said I was using 55 grain HP Winchesters. They are 45 grain CXP1 made by Winchester. I got another coyote here this morning. I was able to watch this one come in from about 250 yrs. He worked his way down the edge of a hay field, He hung up a little but I gave him a real light squeel on the Tweety call and he trotted right up to about 80 yards and turned almost broadside and I dropped him there, and again no exit hole.
Now I have to go back to work when the weather is finally getting good for hunting........geez!
Good luck everyone
Kenny


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## John M (Oct 24, 2005)

Yeah my dad went into the local gun shop today and told them he had to buy a different type of .223 bullets instead of FMJs cause it wont work on coyotes, and they laughed at him, they said that when the bullet enters any kind of animal it tumbles and it wasnt worth it to pay 20 bucks on another kind of bullet. Yeah I got to thinking to, why would the military use FMJs if an animal can run 2 miles with it through there heart.

:eyeroll:


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## nutt (Jan 17, 2006)

not to stire up an argument but anything in the heart will kill anything (a person, yote, or elephant)...from an arrow, to a fmj...the problem with fmj's are they are smaller than jhp or soft points at impact because they dont expand..therefore making the chances of hitting vitals less likely. You might get lucky every now and then...but sooner or later you bound to put one through a yote without hitting vitals giving that poor yote some undeserved healing time.

and the military uses fully automatic weapons therefore making the chances of getting shot mutiple times alot more likely than only getting shot once...police officers dont use fmj!

:beer:


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

The reason the military uses fmj is to minimize tissue damage to human casualties. The bullet is designed to pass thru a person and cause minimum damage and a smaller wound channel and allow the combatant a chance to survive the wound as per the Geneva Convention and Law of Land Warfare( I was in the Marines and that is why I know this. I am not making this up).

The idea is if you wound a guy it takes two more guys to drag him off the battlefield and give him first and and that means less guys shooting back at you or at least thats the theory and it makes sense. FMJs are also ideal for shooting thru the tree/car/ballistic vest he is hiding behind and still disable him.

Contrary to earlier statements they will not come apart because they are designed to stay in one piece. If you want advice from experts call the Sierra Bullets tech line. I think the number is 800-223-8799 and they do bullets for a living 5 days a week. I have shot .223 fmjs through a telephone pole! They will also more often that not leave a small hole going in and a not much bigger one coming out which is what they are supposed to do. I will bet other folks on this site would say same.

Not dying of a gun shot wound is great for humans but when trying to kill a coyote FMJs are a near sure ticket to misery and prolonged agony before certain death unless its a head shot or in the chest and out the a$$.

As far as the guys at your local gun store, laughing at customers is poor business and they are wrong. Anybody working in a gunshop should know what a proper varmint bullet is or should not be working there. Dont get me wrong. FMJs will kill coyotes but (anyone feel free to chime in) you will wound and lose more coyotes with the same hit than if you shot a good ballistic tip, hollowpoint or softpoint.

Its just what my experience is but other may think different. Hope this parts a few clould for ya and good luck man.

Jaybic


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## TheDogSlayer (Feb 2, 2006)

John M,

Let me try explaining it this way: FMJ bullets are design to penetrate deep with little expansion. Fox and yotes are relatively thin, so the FMJ bullets can go completely through them with very little expansion, thus leaving a small exit hole and putting a minimal hurt on the animal.

A bullet has a certain amount of energy in it when it comes out of a gun. As the bullet slow downs due to resistance of air, it start to lose energy, but still has a certain amount of energy left in it when it impacts the animal. If the bullet passes all the way through the animal and exits, the exiting bullet still has some energy left in it. This means the animal did not have to absorb all the energy in that bullet. A bullet design to expand rapidly may have the same amount of energy in it before it hits the animal, but because it expands rapidly, it does not exit the animal. If it doesn't exit the animal, it doesn't have any energy left in it, therefore, the animal absorbed all of the bullets remaining energy. When muscle tissue absorbs that much energy that quick, it bruises and hemorages, causing instant shock.

Hope this helps.

Good Hunting!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

People, I was supprised you have had a full metal come apart. In some Instances I have seen a lot of damage. I think this damage occurs when a bone is hit, and the bullet tumbles, and also turns bone into secondary projectiles. I have never been able to evaluate the bullet because they have all passed through and I recovered none.

As I mentioned the coyote I shot was only 30 yards, and it spit through like a needle. It should have killed him, but as the lungs slope down from the top to the rear I can only assume my shot although in the chest was just over the lungs. I would expect a heart shot to put them down right there even with a full metal jacket, and within 200 yards through the lungs. 
I have blown many fox up with full metals. Their skin is just to thin, and when you hit any bone at all say good by to some hide. This even happens to me with a full metal in a 22 Hornet. I get better results with small fragile bullets.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

The thing about FMJ bullets they do come apart. If you are using Mill grade ones. The M855 ammo the Armed forces shoots now adays will totally come apart if fired into tisue at any thing less than about 95 yds. This is also concidering a 1:7 twist. I shoot a 1:8 in most of my guns. I have also used a 1:9 for the 55gr slugs. I also shoot my rds pretty stiff.

here is a good site to look at. http://www.ammo-oracle.com/body.htm


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

People
I went to that site and found this:



> Q. What is FMJ? JSP? JHP? FMJBT?
> FMJ is "Full Metal Jacket" and is used to describe rounds that are entirely encased (except for the bullet base, typically) in a metal jacket, usually copper alloy called gilding metal. FMJ rounds are also sometimes referred to as "ball" (meaning "standard") ammunition by the military. Generally these rounds are designed with little to no expansion in mind. They are comparatively inexpensive to produce, feed well, give good penetration in most materials. The jacketed nose prevents bullet expansion and typically leaves the bullet intact after striking flesh (the 5.56 round is a notable exception).


That would go along with my experience. Because the Geneva convention calls for full metal, do you suppose the military full metal are more fragile to enhance lethality? I know my full metals in the 243 and 30-06 hardly deform shot through wood. Also, my old Spear full metal 224 caliber didn't deform much either.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

The Swiss make there ammo for their own use with a thicker wall on the bullet. This is to decrease the likelihood of the bullet causing undue trauma to the person shot. The US and NATO have not adopted this new type of bullet. The ss109 bullet loaded to M855 specs for the US Armed Forces do come apart when fired at close ranges. The same thing happens with M193 ammo. The 193 was designed to fire out of a 1:14 twist. The US quickly moved to a 1:12. This round would be easily upset and would tumble at longer ranges but at closer ranges the round will come apart.

For both types of ammo the ability to come apart varies from lot to lot. At longer ranges the SS109 does ice pick when hitting a target. As I under stand it this was part of FN's plan to give performance similar to the M80 ammo out to 800m. This was to increase sales of Minimi (US M249 SAW). The US did field the new ammo and redesigned the M16 to the A2 specification with the 1:7 twist.

The 30cal(M2) or 7.62(M80) really do not come apart they usually pass threw a target. Depending on now how they hit the bullet can tumble. The M80 is more prone to tumbling than the M2. The Canular is the weak spot on the bullet and the bullet can come apart creating two different wound channels.

The Soviets use 5N7 ammo and the western SS109 do the same things. They are designed to increase wounding of targets. The 5N7 does this far better than the SS109 bullet. They are also designed to shoot relatively flat for several hundred Meters.

Many times when you buy a FMJ it is not built to US specks. I usually only buy pulled bullets.


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Don't shoot them if you want to find your coyotes period!


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## bukn77 (Feb 18, 2006)

I shoot ballistic tips at the yotes, foxes, and cats. I'm shooting them out of an AR and they drop them like a rock. I used to shoot the v-max but my buddy started hand loading these for me and they work awesome! Definitely dont shoot the fmjs. It will be a frustrating hunt. :sniper:


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