# Poacher Gets off way to easy



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Schlieve won't face board discipline
By Janell Cole, The Forum
Published Friday, December 09, 2005
BISMARCK - A former Wahpeton High School principal won't be disciplined by a state board for his hunting law conviction, members decided Thursday.

The Educational Standards and Practices Board's administrative subcommittee voted unanimously to dismiss an inquiry into whether Hy Schlieve should face professional sanctions.

Schlieve resigned his job two weeks ago, several days after he was given a deferred sentence, probation, loss of hunting privileges and $600 in fines and restitution. He pleaded guilty to unlawfully taking or possessing a deer, a Class A misdemeanor, in October under a plea agreement with Barnes County prosecutors.

Subcommittee member Pam Cronin of Larimore made the motion to dismiss, saying that while unlawful taking or possession of big game is a role model issue, it doesn't have a direct bearing on education.

Schlieve attended the meeting in the Capitol, but did not speak. He left after the vote and declined comment.

A Nov. 18 letter Schlieve wrote to the board explains his actions on Nov. 11, 2004, the day he violated state hunting laws in Barnes County.

"I cannot put into words how sorry I am for the entire situation," he wrote.

He said he went group hunting that day with others, one of whom shot and wounded a deer. Schlieve said he offered to track down the deer and put it out of its misery. After doing that, he dragged it to the road and loaded it into a pickup. The hunter who wounded the deer was not around and was not there to tag his deer when Schlieve took it to his brother-in-law's farm.

Group hunting is not legal in North Dakota.

"We dressed out the deer and left it hanging for the guy to tag," Schlieve wrote. But then a sheriff's deputy arrived to investigate a tip about deer poaching before the hunter returned to tag his deer, Schlieve said.

Game wardens said they found 30 untagged deer in a farm shop of Jeremy Hansen's near Valley City. Hansen, who is Schlieve's brother-in-law, and his father-in-law Darrell Hansen, were among the nine hunters eventually charged.

"This situation has come at a tremendous cost to me-personally, socially, physically, psychologically, financially and professionally," Schlieve wrote to the state board. "I believe I have suffered more and paid an extremely high penalty already as a result."



> while unlawful taking or possession of big game is a role model issue, it doesn't have a direct bearing on education.


That is one of the most ignorant statements I have read in quite some time!! :eyeroll:

I still think he got off to easy.

Bob


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman......You are pretty level headed but.... I guess if anyone is caught breaking a wildlife law....they should not be able to work anymore???

Doctors,lawyers,plumbers,electricians,barbers,nurses,or anyone who has to have a license to do their job should not be able to work at their job just for shooting 1 to many deer????

Or is it just because he is in education?

I'm not defending what he did.....but no way should he not be allowed to do his job unless his job involved wildlife.


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## chuck stemig (Jul 23, 2005)

He sure made some bad choices and keeps some questionable company, even if it is in-laws.

Wildlife law violations seem to be not as serious as other criminal activity in some circles.

Perhaps he should use his experience to educate others by way of public speaking on the issues of poaching and over-harvesting.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Ken

It wasn't Plainsman that posted this it was me. Who the heck is saying he shouldn't be able to do his job? All I am saying is he committed a wildlife violation in ND and current penalties are a joke.



> just for shooting 1 to many deer????


Isn't shooting 1 to many still against the law?

As far as the board goes it is their choice to do whatever they feel is proper. No way do I have to agree with their stance.

I know you are a Teacher and this is not a post against the teaching profession. It is a post about a guy that has a role in molding our youth into responsible adults. IMO this is not the right example to give them. I do not feel the Board with a do nothing approch is doing the right thing either. At minimum IMO there should be a letter of reprimand in his file.

Bob


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

We are all role models. The guy lost his job and his reputation over his lack of judgement. You are who your friends are and his friends? Well... This guy has payed his penalty and then some. We all live in a glass house. If you think you should lose your job if you commited the same violation I would like to hear you say it on this forum. Bob, why should they not put a letter of reprimand in your file if you commited the same violation? This is America! If you want to raise the penalty do you want the legislation to include which professions should or should not retain their place of employment?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Sorry Plainsman.....

Bob this is what you said.....

"Quote: 
while unlawful taking or possession of big game is a role model issue, it doesn't have a direct bearing on education.

That is one of the most ignorant statements I have read in quite some time!!

I still think he got off to easy."

What part of that staement is ignorant????Breaking a wildlife law doesn't have a direct bearing on education even though yes we are supposed to be role models.

The entire article is basically that the State Dept of Ed should not take away his ability to work at the job he is trained to do and should not recieve sanctions from them.And I agree with what they are saying.Being a teacher myself has nothing to do with it.But I know it would be tough to come to school with that hanging over my head.

He probably should have recieved tougher fines etc....but why should he be sanctions from the Dept. Of Ed.?

And I'm talking about any profession,not just education.Shooting to many deer has nothing to do with your job.Loose your hunting priveleges and pay a fine yes.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I agree that he should not be sanctioned by the board of Ed. He should get stiffer fines etc. But he should not lose his job because of this violation. Because if you say he should lose his job over the hunting violation....how about if he got a speeding ticket. He is breaking the law....he is a role model that broke a law, he is not setting a good example to children. It would be insane to fire him or have a board penalize him anymore. It has nothing to do with education.....unless he taught firearms safety, hunting ethics etc. He did get off light on the fine and charges...but that is a game and fish problem. The should raise fines and judgements.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

DJ wrote


> Bob, why should they not put a letter of reprimand in your file


Because I am not a Licensed Professional that is interacting with our youth as a profession.

Ken wrote



> What part of that staement is ignorant????Breaking a wildlife law doesn't have a direct bearing on education even though yes we are supposed to be role models.





> while unlawful taking or possession of big game is a role model issue, it doesn't have a direct bearing on education.


Are they saying that a role model doesn't have a direct bearing or breaking game law doesn't have a direct bearing.? The statement contradicts itself IF you are supposed to conduct yourselves as role models which you have already stated that you are.

You have your view I have mine. I feel our laws for wildlife violations are way to light. Many other states publish your name on their websites if you are convicted of a crime involving wildlife. I have never stated that he should lose his job. He realized it was going to be a serious issue involving his job and resigned on his own.

Bob


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

I do not see the correlation between the professional practices board and a hunting violation and obviously the board did not either. I would not be surprised if there is some plea bargaining going on and he is willing to cooperate with the investigation into the other offenders. This may be why his penalty is on the "light" side. Believe me, even though there is no letter in his file, his file is marked for the rest of his professional career. North Dakota is a small state and there are few secrets. Sounds like the charge is more of a party hunting charge and of course party hunting is a very rare event when it comes to North Dakota deer hunting. Now I would be willing to bet that the others will not just be charged with party hunting.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

OK Bob....I guess we will have to disagree.As DJ says....there is NO correlation between a wildlife offense and your job unless it is wildlife related.

If someone from the GNF did this.....yes he needs to be fired or at least reprimaded....but not someone from outside that profession.


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## frosty (Dec 6, 2002)

"it doesn't have a direct bearing on education. "

I beg to differ.

Bob, I totally agree with you. While somewhat unfair, teachers are held to a higher standard than a bartender, salesman, insurance agent, etc. You can't be a good educator and a good criminal. It's either one or the other.

The part that really steams me however is Mr. Schieleve's unwillingness to truly admit he did something wrong. And I find it very hard to believe that his only fault was shooting the deer "to put it out of it's misery" and then not having a tag on it while the sheriff is finding 30 other untagged deer. Lame. The man was part of one of the biggest poaching rings in ND and his best excuse is that?

I think he was balls deep in this massive poaching case and he got very lucky to get off as easy as he did.


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## krl (Nov 2, 2005)

I am sure he had nothing to do with the other 30 deer! He probably didn't know about them. Yeah right.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Are mandatory stiffer consequenses needed? This from one of the Iowa Nodakers:

Partial Bill History 
This bill has been introduced down here in Iowa to help curb the poaching of trophy whitetails. This should get anyone's attention who is considering such a heinous act. The only thing that I would like clarified is antlers found on previously killed bucks (roadkills, etc). ND should adapt this and have the proceeds go to PLOTS ￼

Bill Introduced: H.J. 86.2 
Complete Bill History 
Bill Text 
PAG LIN 
1 1 Section 1. Section 481A.130, subsection 1, paragraph g, 
1 2 Code Supplement 2003, is amended by striking the paragraph and 
1 3 inserting in lieu thereof the following: 
1 4 NEW PARAGRAPH. g. For each antlered deer, reimbursement 
1 5 shall be based on the point score of the antlered deer as 
1 6 measured by the Boone and Crockett club's scoring system for 
1 7 whitetail deer as follows: 
1 8 (1) Less than 100 points: Two thousand dollars and eighty 
1 9 hours of community service or, in lieu of the community 
1 10 service, a total of four thousand dollars. 
1 11 (2) 100-125 points: Four thousand dollars and eighty 
1 12 hours of community service or, in lieu of the community 
1 13 service, a total of eight thousand dollars. 
1 14 (3) 126-150 points: Six thousand dollars and eighty hours 
1 15 of community service or, in lieu of the community service, a 
1 16 total of twelve thousand dollars. 
1 17 (4) 151-170 points: Eight thousand dollars and eighty 
1 18 hours of community service or, in lieu of the community 
1 19 service, a total of sixteen thousand dollars. 
1 20 (5) More than 170 points: A minimum of ten thousand 
1 21 dollars or such additional amount as is deemed reasonable in 
1 22 the discretion of the court and eighty hours of community 
1 23 service or, in lieu of the community service, a minimum of 
1 24 twenty thousand dollars or such additional amount as is deemed 
1 25 reasonable in the discretion of the court. 
1 26 EXPLANATION 
1 27 This bill increases the damages payable to the state by a 
1 28 person convicted of unlawfully selling, taking, catching, 
1 29 killing, injuring, destroying, or possessing any antlered deer 
1 30 at any time. The bill provides that for any antlered deer, 
1 31 reimbursement shall be based on the point score of the 
1 32 enduring trophy characteristics of the deer (such as antlers 
1 33 and skulls) as measured by the Boone and Crockett club's 
1 34 scoring system for measuring native North American big game, 
1 35 as it pertains to whitetail deer. 
2 1 The Boone and Crockett club's point score and the 
2 2 corresponding damages payable are as follows: 
2 3 1. Less than 100 points: $2,000 and 80 hours of community 
2 4 service or, in lieu of the community service, a total of 
2 5 $4,000. 
2 6 2. 100-125 points: $4,000 and 80 hours of community 
2 7 service or, in lieu of the community service, a total of 
2 8 $8,000. 
2 9 3. 126-150 points: $6,000 and 80 hours of community 
2 10 service or, in lieu of the community service, a total of 
2 11 $12,000. 
2 12 4. 151-170 points: $8,000 and 80 hours of community 
2 13 service or, in lieu of the community service, a total of 
2 14 $16,000. 
2 15 5. More than 170 points: A minimum of $10,000 or such 
2 16 additional amount as is deemed reasonable in the discretion of 
2 17 the court and 80 hours of community service or, in lieu of the 
2 18 community service, a minimum of $20,000 or such additional 
2 19 amount as is deemed reasonable in the discretion of the court.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Hey Ken you're spending too much time argueing with Plainsman :lol: 

I agree with Ken though, there is no way someone's career should be taken away from them for a game violation thats punishing his family taking away his ability to a make a living. Dicks post makes the best sense :beer: fine the devil out of them. Big fines have the biggest effect on preventing poaching, when I was a kid in Wi killing a deer at night was about $150 fine and you could hear the guns a night often, when they raised the fines to a couple thou and confiscation of your truck and gun ect. the poaching dropped way off and the legal kill went up a suprising amount.....


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Whether or not he should loose his job depends on how serious a "Class-A Midemeaner" is. What are some examples of other types of crime that fall under "Class A Misdemeaner"?


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I may be mistaken, but if I remember correctly, Schlieve and his crew had *30 *untagged deer hanging when they were checked!

Much as I would like to agree with Bob on this, I can't see connecting his teaching license to a G&F violation.

I think it's a moot point, as I suspect this violation and his resignation because of it will follow him whenever the guy tries to get another teaching job in the future...


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I just have a little food for thought. What if this guy got a DUI, what if he was caught breaking some other laws.........Then should he lose his job as an educator?? If so, then who decides what laws are ok to break as an educator?? Just some thoughts. I don't know what the right answer is but I do know that there are some laws I would be very upset if my childs teacher broke them.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

djleye, and which laws would your employer be upset if you broke them?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

You are not supposed to break any laws! :eyeroll: But I still don't think that you should lose your job for being found guilty of a g&f violation unless you are in that profession, teach hunter safety/ethics, etc. If he is apart of a poaching ring, it will come out. I think he resigned because he knows what is going to be found out during the trial. He will have a permenant mark for his life on this. NOw if the board did not want to renew his contract or something because of a violation that is fine....but he should be fired.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Well, I employ myself so I have a real ******* for a boss. :wink: 
I would have a big problem in my profession if I broke certain laws, trust me. My entire job, however, does not revolve around children!!


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Don't quite understand how this got to the point of getting fired over a Wildlife violation. I never said a thing about it!

Ken Wrote



> Plainsman......You are pretty level headed but.... I guess if anyone is caught breaking a wildlife law....they should not be able to work anymore???
> 
> Doctors,lawyers,plumbers,electricians,barbers,nurses,or anyone who has to have a license to do their job should not be able to work at their job just for shooting 1 to many deer????





> He probably should have recieved tougher fines etc....but why should he be sanctions from the Dept. Of Ed.?


He got Plainsman confused with Me.

I said a letter should go in his file and that I thought he got off to easy. DO NOT put words in my mouth.

Bob


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

The point being he should be allowed "due process" and he was and the practices board also gave him due process and they found him not to be in violation of their guidelines so he has got what he deserved and not a lynching. I am eagerly waiting for the results of the rest of this case. Yes, Bob I agree you did not call for his job but were disappointed that the practices board did not put a letter in his file. I am sure this is all documented by the Wahpeton school board if someone calls to find out background information should Schlieve apply for another job in education.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I took the thread the wrong way.....I thought you wanted his job. I agree with a letter or some mark in his file. But again if he would apply for a new job this all would come to the surface. Sorry for the mis understanding.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I think its Plainsmans fault :lol:


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

My apologies, Bob...


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

No need for anyone to apologize, Sorry if I came off as harsh. I just didn't want the thread to continue with people thinking I wanted his job to be taken away.

I have posted many times on this site that I feel Wildlife Violations and the penalties that accompany them seem to be little more than a token punishment. I have always been consistant in my view of this and my feeling is and always will be that punishment for a crime should be punishment enough to be a future deterrent.

Peace!

Bob


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## ammoman (Dec 19, 2005)

if it were up to me 
id ban him for 1 year
give him a big fat fine like $5000.00
and put him in jail for 1year
convincate his firearms and all his hunting possions
that shoud teach him 
pouch and pay the price
after all that if he is not stupid i dont think wed ever have a nother problem with him a gain
I just hope not
if he dosent a gain the punshiment will be more suverour


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

A proper punishment would be one year of online
tutoring to Alias from this site that possess poor/ or 
lack of grammer and spelling skills.


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## ammoman (Dec 19, 2005)

school principals are to set exzamples for the students
their not to teachthe students to break the law


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## b_grover (Jun 2, 2006)

Bob,

I'm a grad of the lowly LHS(99) I had much better faith in the admin. Of course I was said and gone. Stilll a rather interesting article for the rest of us. I had great admin and even greater teachers and mentors.

Thanks for your posts.

If you can't figure out the BGrove part well, you missed........


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