# Dogs not liking each other question.



## dwshunt (Apr 26, 2003)

Ok, so I have a BLF who normally is very nice. She is 5, but some dogs she wants to fight for no reason that I can tell unless they flip her off in dog looks! One second they are sniffing noses and the next she is at em.

I had a Chessy before her and he was also nice, but some dogs he just didn't like for no reason. We were at Game Fair in MN and just walking along and by alot of other dogs, then a BLM walks by and he trys to get him. There was no growling from the other dog, so I was suprised.

Thanks


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Middle aged females are hard to handle no matter what the species.


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## raamw (Jan 2, 2006)

What you are experiencing is two dogs who are challenging each other in the dominant staircase, if these are strange dogs best bet is to keep them away from other dogs since you know what your going to get and it is difficult to stop, still do not tolerate this since someone is going to get hurt and it may be you not to mention some expensive vet or doctor bills
If it is two dogs in the same house, again do not put up with this and go after the instigator yelling NO grabbing by the scuff of the neck and forcing the dog to ground in a submissive posture until you see a submissive reponse otherwise the dog may come up after to you
keep this up on whoever starts the growling or posturing first

I once asked handlers of police dogs how they deal with this since they are all type A dogs with dominant personalities, what they do if it can't be resolved is put high quality muzzles on them and let them have at each other until one submisses, the muzzle prevents any serious injuries


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## dwshunt (Apr 26, 2003)

Thanks for the response.


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## marapets (May 14, 2006)

my dogs hate each other


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## CDK (Aug 1, 2005)

Keep a wiffle ball bat handy and try to set her up a few times and at the first sign of aggression teach her that fighting is unacceptable. For some reason wiffle bats scare the hell out of a dog and you should'nt be able to hurt her.


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## houndsman (Jan 30, 2006)

Dog behavior is sure fascinating! I have had this problem before... I would encourage you not to respond to aggression with aggression though - and I'll tell you why.

Dogs do establish a pecking-order with each other - but I believe this pecking order is restricted to their 'pack' - (i.e. between you and the dog, and the dog has a pecking order with your other dog(s)) When a dog meets a 'new' dog and becomes aggressive, I've believe it is more a result of 'fear' (of not knowing the intent of the other dog, etc) than it is an exercise in dominance (because the strange dog isn't in fact a part of your dogs 'pack', where his pecking order must be preserved). Now, if your dog is responding to the strange dog out of fear and you reward his behavior by making him even 'more' afraid, he's going to respond even more strongly with the only mechanism he/she has - aggression - which is what the dog uses to protect itself. And if the last time a dog met a 'new' dog he got his/her butt kicked, I can guarantee you that you are training that dog to come out even stronger and more aggresively the next time.

Alternative: Teach the dog that other dogs elicit 'good' behavior from you. Stuff a bunch of hot-dogs in your pocket the next time you go in public. Every time your dog notices another dog, praise him and give him a little piece of that ground-up-entrails you have in your pocket and speak to him reassuringly. Before you know it, your dog will look away from strange dogs, and immediately 'focus' on the reward you are about to give him - and it doesn't have to be hot-dogs every time, just pet him/her up real good as soon as they see another dog and ask for it.

Just my thoughts - good luck, and good hunting.


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## raamw (Jan 2, 2006)

It took me a while to find it but I did make your own opinion on its merits

http://leerburg.com/dominac2.htm


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## CDK (Aug 1, 2005)

First you have to figure out if your dog is fighting out of fear or dominance, the little treat thing might work with a dog thats fighting out of fear but if you have two dominate dogs there not going to give a hill of beans about some little peices of hot dog. I've had a couple of very dominate dogs that started this problem at about 2 or 3 years of age and quickly solved it with the wiffle bat and after that if they even looked at another dog wrong all I had to do was hiss a no at them and they knew better. This is'nt just my therory either I got it from a nationally respected retriever trainer. Dogs should be taught that fighting is unacceptable just like jumping barking digging ext. The longer you let a dog start fights the harder it will be to break them of it, just like anything.


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## houndsman (Jan 30, 2006)

I understand your position, but I respectfully disagree with the advice the dog trainger gave you. It would be difficult to always be around to hiss at the dog or whack 'em with a plastic bat just to 'remind' them that I don't allow fighting when he/she encounters a new dog. I would agree that the dog will listen after being hit with the bat (simply out of fear), but I don't believe that it will address the 'source' of the dogs anxiety. I just prefer to turn off the stimulus, so the problem doesn't appear when I'm not there. 
There are certainly other issues at play here that are hard to determine. For instance, I think a dog that is on a lead is more likely to exhibit this behavior than when running 'loose', simply because the ability of the dog to flee if the 'new' dog is aggressive has been removed, and the dog knows that you are holding on to the lead....that creates anxiety for the dog, and can trigger the 'aggressive' response, because the dog doesn't know how to deal with the anxiety of the uncertain dog. That's why I suggested getting the dog to focus on the positive response from his owner, as he stated this happens when he is out in public with the dog on lead.
I had a male plott for many years that could be called 'dominant' to someone that didn't know the dog. I knew that he was simply very nervous around strange/new dogs. I run hounds, and don't have anybody nearby that runs hounds, so my dogs aren't exposed to a lot of 'new' dogs - just a problem that I have resigned myself to deal with. Anyhow, I could run this dog with strange dogs at night-hunts, but I absolutely HAD to load him into the dog box last, and not place my hand on his rear-end as he entered the box. He needed to have the option to enter the box s-l-o-w-l-y, and know that he could retreat out the door if the other dog in there was aggressive. If I loaded him first, as surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, he would tear the du-ball-hell out any strange dog that was loaded into the box after him. He couldn't retreat, he felt cornered, and he didn't know what the intentions of that other dog were, so proceeded to get in the first 'licks' every time.
The link that roamw provided above is nothing short of fascinating. I've read much of it (just because I couldn't quit reading - that guy has some great insight). Thanks for posting it.
An important thing to note is that the bat tactic did in fact work for you. I'm certainly not trying to start an argument with you, I'm just sharing my thoughts, as I enjoy learning and exploring different ideas on dog behavior and training. We all develop different training methods and tactics, that's part of what makes it so enjoyable.

Good Hunting to you.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Houndsman interesting post


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## CDK (Aug 1, 2005)

No hard feelings houndsman, just a difference in opionion, I guess my dogs don't get introduced to a new dog unless I am watching over them. In fact my dogs almost never leave my sight unless they are in there kennel, unlike hounds which are almost never insight. I am sure your method works equally well.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

I am having a similar problem with my female lab. She is a gentle dog, hard charger when working and in the past has gotten along great with ohter dogs. But we just moved from our farm in North Dakota to Scottsdale, AZ. I take her for a run every morning now on the path and streets by our house. She is very aggressive to other dogs now.

It started about two weeks ago when a little hairy mop came rushing out at her and caught her by suprise... I am not saying it started there but this is the first time that she had displayed the agression.

we lived 20 miles out of town in ND and she had little to no contact with other dogs other than when we visited my parents house and their 11 year old mutt which she got along great with except for one ocassion about a month or so ago. You see that old mutt dominated her and would give her the the ocassional snap of which my dog would take and not confront. Well like metioned, there was an ocassion a little while back where she had finally grown up enough (now 2 years old) and turned the tables.

I do not want to have to force her to live with this aggression so I am asking you guys for some help. There is(don't laugh this is true) a service at the local PetSmart called Doggie Daycare where people drop off their pets for jsut that, a daycare while they are at work. They are allowed to be together according to size to frolic and such with observation. They have a screening before hand to judge the temperment of the dog. 
I think that at some point this would be a great place for her to exercise her trust and improve her socialization skills.

I truely think that her anxiety is from not knowing how to respond to a new dog and especially now in a new place. I also when seeing another dog coming have had her sit and stay. This has worked for me alone but did not work well when my wife was with us. But the aggression is still there, especially as I restrain her.

Would a control group like the PetSmart idea work? I am open to some suggestions.


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## ryanps18 (Jun 23, 2006)

I think that if your dog knows his place in the pack and you the pack leader there should not be any agression problems. As the pack leader you give the dog the securtiy that nothing is going to harm him so there should no anxiety towards other dogs ( assuming that the dog has been properly socialized). The dog knows that it is not his place to proctect turf or other members of the pack it is the pack leaders job. And if the dog knows his place he will not cross the pack leader. Read a book on wolves it is quite interesting.

Just my thoughts!!![/quote]


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

I am going ot ahve to say that I control my dog well, she is obiedence trained without a shock collar. She listens very well and seldom needs a stern correction, but when she does I give it to her. That is really what mystifies me with her because of ehr gentle nature with people. She is great with my nephew and niece that are 3-5 years old. I really think that socialization is the best thing for her. 
I understand that the New Dog is the stressor for her so I am jsut worried that I will be instigating her or not dealing with this problem properly.


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## ryanps18 (Jun 23, 2006)

sometimes the most obiediant dog gets its buttons pushed when ther is an unstable dog around. I have a nighbor that has one of those wothless dogs, well the dog is probably fine but the neighboor is the worthless one, anway one day the dog came over and started a fight with my two dogs I grabed him and held the dog down by its neck let my dogs snif hima little and have not had a problem since with the dog. The dog owner a different story....


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## ryanps18 (Jun 23, 2006)

By the way I think that pet smart thing is a great idea, if your dog can handel those dogs she will be able to handel anything. You can not replicate that kind of Chaos... Good luck!!


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

thanks for the pointers... there is a wealth of info out there on pack and aggressive mentaility. It is just a matter of sifting through the symptoms to get to the problem.

Thanks again.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Dogs in a neighbor hood have a pecking order and all dogs are very territorial. And the rest of the neighborhood dogs will never recognize you as the leader of their pack
( unless you jog in full leathers with a harley doo rag on :lol: :lol

just kidding....

So forget the wolf pack analogies they only apply to your own dogs.

Jogging thru a neighborhood full of strange dogs ( if the neighborhood dogs are loose) is putting your dog in a position of constantly being challenged when you jog by with her.

Find another route to jog or leave her at home, your dog is not the problem,the situation you are putting her in is impossible for her.

How many fights would you get in if every block someone came to the curb and acted like they were going to kick your *** as you jogged by??

Thats the position you've put your dog in.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Bob... you always have a way of putting things into a realistic perspective. Sometimes it is hard to describe the picture when you are stuck inside the frame, ans again that is the case here.

I thank you for you insight.


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