# Diesel Trucks?



## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Alright, so I have driven a diesel truck my whole life, and just bought a new one. It's a 2003 Cummins. I put about 100 miles on it and it gelled up. I thought it was odd since it was like 0 degrees. I have never had a truck gel up. So I changed the filter and put 911 in there. It sits in a heated shop, so on. About every other day I drive it I get about 10 miles down the road and it gels up. :******: I am running Arctic Diesel, good to -40 and an additive that adds another 6 points of lubricity= about another 30 degrees below. SO it SHOULD be good to -70 degrees.

After my 5th filter and about 9837 swear words I brought it back to the dealership. I told them the story and they go what color were the filters as I take them out. I thought about it and told them well the first one was black. They look at each other and go well you have Algae growing in your tank. I have never heard of this, I guess it is from the Bio Diesel. Well they then put an additive in to kill the algae, and they said after that tank it will be fine. I went through that tank and it did it again. They had admitted to me that it was from the previous owner, because it takes a while to grow, yada yada.

What would you guys do? I think it has gotten through the filter and to my injectors. Would you make them take it back?

Anyone have experience with something like this?

Thanks guys. Sorry for the rant I am a little ****** after the 8th filter on the side of the road, and a 20 mile tow.


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## bjertness07 (Jan 4, 2005)

I guess it's hard to say, and depending on the dealership, I'd take it back and have them fix it. I've heard rumors of that happening, but never actually thought that algae could live in diesel. If all else fails, scrap it and buy a Powerstroke!


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

bjertness07 said:


> Powerstroke!


 :-?

Been there, got 8 MPG! 

Yeah, I thought the same thing. I talked to my cousin who works for Wallworks and he said they get semi's in all the time that it happens to. I guess truckers boycott getting fuel in Minn. because of the Bio. It is crap on the motor. It still has dealership plates on it, and I know the owner, so I think they will work something out. I want to keep the truck, but if it only gets ten miles down the road before needing a new filter it is going to have to go.


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## laxratnd (Jan 23, 2008)

Well depending on how much algae is in your tank it will take a few cycles of deisel to empty it out. Algae in the fuel i have seen many times. I work for a boat yard and we see a lot of tanks with algae. We use star tron. It works very well. The thing is that you will have to replace your filters a few times because of the way it works. It will help though. You just have to give it some time.

http://www.startron.com/

Give it some time. I am guessing that truck sat around for a little bit and was not used much before you got it.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

BTW, its a dodge so my best guess is that you will have to pay a fine for the dump to take it


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Thanks, I will have them order some!! I just got off the phone with them, and they are going to do everything. I am getting sick of dealing with it, and don't even feel safe taking it out of town.

Does that stuff just kill it, and then run it through the filter? It there any way to pull the tank off and clean it? I am trying to get them to do that, because this driving it then changing the filter is getting old.

Thanks alot!


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

USSapper said:


> BTW, its a dodge so my best guess is that you will have to pay a fine for the dump to take it


It looked really good when I pulled it to the dealership with Betsy, AKA 1994 Chevy with a 6.5 in it! haha I left it right out front so they had to work on it there this morning to get it going. Looks good for them with the dealer plates on it! 8)


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## laxratnd (Jan 23, 2008)

That stuff does a few things. It will kill any algae in it and you filter will suck it up. It will also disolve any sludge in the tank and let the filters take all the particles out. Depending how bad your tank is i would say you would have to change it one or two more times. the Star tron say your filters will get filled pretty quick and you will have to change them but once its clean you will not have to worry.

To take the tank out and clean it would not be to easy. There is no big opening in the tank so i doubt that would be very easy to do. but i could be wrong. Alot of tanks that tend to sit for a long period of time will get sludge and algae in them. you could have the algae problem and also the sludge. But the star tron should take care of it. Your going to have to replace some filters but in the long run your better. off.

Heres an idea also. You might want to through a secondary filter on there. Have your primary take out all the heavy stuff and then have your secondary take the fine stuff out. Or set it up where you have dual filter but can switch one over to the other if your out on the road and need to switch it if your really that worried.

But i recommend just doing the star tron and that should fix your problem.

oh and those cummins are great work horses.


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## laxratnd (Jan 23, 2008)

I forgot to add that some tanks have expection holes in them that you might be able to get a vaccum in there to clean it out. If done that on a few boats.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

That sucks dude... Get that ish fixed and we'll LET you tow the trailer down to Neb, so we can see how that cummins does on fuel :wink:


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Plot thickens. I got them to admit that when it came in there was some fuel leaking out by the heads. AKA the injectors. But they obviously cleaned it up for selling purposes.

SO the guy working on it right now says that the injectors are leaking, and I might need new injectors. What a bunch of crap! Looks like I will be bringing her back, unless they get this all fixed.


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

If you can GET OUT NOW! You'll kick yourself for years every time something goes wrong. It's a sign. I bought a brand new 02 F250 diesel that gave me problems from day one I documented everything and after twenty three trips to the shop in 12,000 miles Ford bought it back. Per my request, no lawyer, they gave me full purchase price plus tax. The only catch, I had to buy another ford. That one was great an 04 diesel. I've since traded it in on an 07 diesel crew and can't be happier. Glad I'm still not driving the lemon.


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## laxratnd (Jan 23, 2008)

Well if there saying your injectors are leaking you might have a bigger problem at hand. If you can have them buy it back and go buy a the new chevy diesel. Thats a sweet truck. lol. Good luck with it. Oh and if you want a good oil use Amsoil. Only stuff i use in all my engines.


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## ay tee (Jun 11, 2007)

bjertness07 said:


> I guess it's hard to say, and depending on the dealership, I'd take it back and have them fix it. I've heard rumors of that happening, but never actually thought that algae could live in diesel. If all else fails, scrap it and buy a Powerstroke!


dont get me wrong.. ford makes good vehicles, thats what i drive.. but the powerstroke... well that is a thing of the past... powerstroke's should be way better then they really are.. and for this reason, ford is dropping them and contracting through another company... i am not sure when they are supposed to drop them on the production line but i have been hearing a lot about it...


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Yeah, I am going to get the previous owners name off the title and give him a call tomorrow. Try and get some info from him. He has nothing to loose so hopefully he will tell me all about it.

I like the new chevy's but they are having some serious issues with them right now in cold weather. My buddy works at this dealership, and they are getting like 50% of them back for leaks, and plugging up right now. I guess there filters are way tighter then anyone elses but the fuel they are putting out right now plugs it up.

I like the milage of the Cummins also. I think I am going to fight to have them buy it back. Ohh did I mention the second day I had it someone pulled out infront of me and I totaled there car. I haven't ever been in an accident up to that point. I call it the truck from he ll. So hopefully if I give them the insurance check, have them pay me for the Astro, and brake controller they will call it even. We will see tomorrow I guess.


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

Keep us posted I curious what the dealer does.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

What you have is not Algae but is often mistakenly called that. Algae requires sunlight to grow and of course there is no sunlight getting to your fuel tank. What you have is microbes that can survive in the tank and feed on the diesel. They come from water contaminated fuel and form a colony between the fuel and water surface. Using a biocide to kill them will work but it does not desolve or remove them. As they die they sink to the bottom of the tank where they form a sludge that will continue to clog your fuel filter. Your going to go through a lot of filter if the contamination was extensive. I've dwelt with this problem before with marine engines and the only sure and expedient method is to remove and clean the fuel tank.

What I would really be concerned about is the strain that is being put on the lift pump which is a weak point on the Cummins anyway. If that lift pump fails it could cause damage to the injector pump and that is a very expensive proposition. The lift pump requires lubrication from the diesel and it is not getting that from the sludge or water contamination. Anything that starves that lift pump is bad news.

Personally if it were me, and I could prove the tank was contaminated when bought, I would demand the tank, including the filter sending unit inside the tank, be replaced and all fuel lines from the filter back blown out. Otherwise your fastest and cheapest solution is to drop the tank and clean it out.


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## glaciallakeslds (Nov 2, 2005)

mike,

this whole deal pretty much sucks. brody told me you were havin problems with it, and now i got the whole scoop on it. wow. i'd take that thing back and get out if you can. there's plenty of similar trucks on the market now that will more than likely give you a hell of a lot less trouble!

were are going to have a pretty good lookin spread come first week in march, im workin on makin about 300-400 silhouettes. im pumped!

good luck with the truck


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Well my head keeps shaking at GATEWAY... I have yet to receive my plates, and my temp tag expires at the end of the week. :******:

The last time it geld up I brought it there and left it in front of there service door. They never called to ask what to do or anything, I just left the keys, with my business card attached. I went in there later on in the day. They hand me a bill of $189.48 I ask what this is for. They say well, we charged the battery cleaned out the filter area, and put a new filter in. Ohh and we put in 5 gallons of gas. "Did you know you were low on gas" I WAS :******: . I told them the reason it was low on gas was because I burned it down so they didn't have as much fuel to drain out when they drop my tank. They go well there is no need for that. There was just water in your filter. "DID you know that the fuel in the filter area was completely frozen. I go no it wasn't I changed that filter right before I brought it here and it is new. The guy didn't know what to say.

Needless to say I made it all the way to the top manager. He ripped up the bill. for the $15 filter and ten minutes of work. AKA $189.48. He told me they aren't going to stand behind it, yada yada. Over 100,000 miles. I then in the middle of the showroom asked them why they sold me a truck with fuel leaking. He goes how do we know that was the case. I told him because YOUR mechanic told me it was. He had just told me that it is something that has been this way for a while by the looks of it. They go well we would never do that. WELL YOU DID. They aren't going to do anything about it. I am going to go get a DOT check done on it. I have to anyways for my company.

I asked them what it would cost to replace the lines that are leaking and check the injectors. They told me ahh about $400- $700. I called Midland Diesel in Fargo they told me about $100-$200 and they will check the WHOLE fuel system.

So this whole time there was no "algae" or anything growing in my tank, no fuel gelling yada yada. More then likely it is just a fuel line to the injector and a simple o ring. But I guess we will see when I get a call from the guy working on it.

My favorite line I gave the salesman was "Well how will you feel when I rent that billboard out front and put this on it" He goes how will you do that " well I know the owner of that sign company I do all of his work, and he owes me money" That's when he started
wheeling and dealing. It isn't over yet that sign may still get rented!!


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

> My favorite line I gave the salesman was "Well how will you feel when I rent that billboard out front and put this on it" He goes how will you do that " well I know the owner of that sign company I do all of his work, and he owes me money" That's when he started
> wheeling and dealing. It isn't over yet that sign may still get rented!!


That would be priceless. Keep us posted...


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Thats what I thought. Sad part is when I was looking at it everyone told me not to buy there, I didn't listen and look how far that got me.....


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

What year is this truck and how many miles were on it when you bought it??

I'm assuming you bought a used truck right..??


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

2003 Cummins with 118,000 I know how buying a truck with over 100,000 is a risk, but them flat out hiding a problem is rather retarded. Talked to DOT today they said I can't even licence it in business name till it is fixed.


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## bjertness07 (Jan 4, 2005)

That's pathetic...I'd be ticked to say the least. How long after you owned it did this begin? I know there's a lemon law in ND, but also know it's hardly any time between the purchase date until the date you have to have it back to them. Anyhow, I haven't heard too much bad about Gateway. I know a guy that worked there in recon and his dad had all great things to say about it.

And in response to ay tee's comment on Powerstrokes, I know they aren't always the greatest engine. However, the farmer I used to work for and another guy I know have owned them, and they've had great luck with them. Just as with any other engine...some may have problems. And I believe Ford's new diesel is present in the 08 models...possibly troubles with those too though from what I hear. Kinda impressive though...twin turboes and a starting time of 3 seconds up to -30.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

It was less then a week from when I bought it till I started to have problems with it. I know about the lemon law, but I am not sure about on a used truck.

One of my close friends works there and he has been trying to get it all worked out for me but it is more up in the management. I hear stories all the time about troubles there. From poor customer service to high labor prices and the list goes on and on. They are at $85 an hour. Not to many places that high. One story sticks out in my head where I farmer I know went in to buy new truck"S" he was going to get all new trucks and sell the old ones outright. He wanted 4 new Duramax's and a Suburban. He went in wearing his normal clothes, aka dirty button up and jeans. They didn't have the time of day for him. He just left and went to the GMC dealer.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

bjertness07 said:


> Kinda impressive though...twin turboes and a starting time of 3 seconds up to -30.


Erroneous, bi turbos. Small one spools the big one :wink:


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Mike, what kind of "crops" did that guy farm. :lol:


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Have fun working on them. You can hardly get oil in the things. :lol:

There is like 15 radiators on them!! Not a huge fan of the motor. Or the milage! But who am I to complain mine has a leak!


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## bjertness07 (Jan 4, 2005)

Lol sorry, USAlx50. I knew that...just didn't know it mattered when saying they were twin. Anyhow...Hunt4P&Y, I believe labor charges are typically that high, but I may be mistaken. If we don't work on stuff ourselves, we have a great mechanic that does it really reasonably.

I can relate with the whole deal where someone goes into a store and isn't given the time of day. It happened to a buddy and I numerous times just a month ago. He wanted to sell his car and buy a pickup. He had the money...loan already approved...and a nice car to trade. We stopped by a place on Main here in Fargo, I won't name names right now. We checked out a pickup, and he wanted to take a look at it. When we went into the office, the guy barely talked to us and threw us the keys. When we looked at the pickup, we started it up and there was a bad knock in the engine...we shut her down, went back in and told the guy it had a knock in it. His reply "well whatever. see ya guys. good luck actually finding a pickup."


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

He is a beat, corn, and bean farmer up by Mayville.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Well, hopefully I got it figured out. I brought it in and they replaced the lines going to the injectors, and put a new o-ring in there. He ran a test on the injectors and they came back excellent he also ran a test on the lifter pump it also checked out good.

He ran a full code check and there were no codes. He thinks there was air getting into the lines at this spot, thus almost vapor locking it. The cold air might have been freezing the fuel at this spot also. I guess we will see if it is fixed. It can go to 30 below for about 12 hours please so I can test this!! Then go back to the 40's! Hopefully this is it. I don't think I am even going to bother bringing the bill to Gateway it isn't even worth the hassle!

What a relief that the injectors aren't bad!!!


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## Horker23 (Mar 2, 2006)

Hunt4P&Y we had a work truck that was a 04 Cummins a couple of years ago that had the same problems that you are encountering. They told us that it was bad diesel that was causing the problems, come winter time the cummings gelled up and wouldnt run for more than 10 min. had to go after the lemon law to get the money back on it. it had lower miles so it was still covered


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## Daren99 (Jul 6, 2006)

If you can get it try P40 diesel it's a canadian fuel that they refine the wax out of, the wax is what causes it to gel just make sure your fuel filters are clean and your tank is pretty close to empty because it doesn't mix well with regular diesel.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I know it wasn't the fuel. It wasn't really gelling up. That was the thing I found odd when I would change the filter they didn't look gelled up, but I just assumed that was the problem.

Hopefully it is good to go now.

Thanks for all of your help guys!


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

bjertness07 said:


> Lol sorry, USAlx50. I knew that...just didn't know it mattered when saying they were twin. Anyhow...Hunt4P&Y, I believe labor charges are typically that high, but I may be mistaken. If we don't work on stuff ourselves, we have a great mechanic that does it really reasonably.


The new powerstrokes need the cab removed for a lot of the engine work to be done  No matter who your mechanic is, that ish is expensive.

Twin turbos- 2 indentical turbos (twin), one for each bank of cylinders. 
Bi-turbos- different sized turbos running off all the cylinders, little turbo to reduce down low lag and get big turbo spooled.

Sorry, I used to big into the whole drag racing, gearhead thing.. before hunting got me.


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