# Kingdon of Heaven, "Don't waste your Time Seeing it&quo



## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Since we have been on the topics of Movies (Jane Fonda) I thought I would add my two cents about the film Kingdom of Heaven. I saw it last week and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. I didn't think Hollywood could pull off a movie about the Crusades, and be accurate and fair. They portray the muslim leader Saladin in some ways is accurate but not completely. Ridley Scott who produce the film was obviously trying not to stir up anti-Muslim feelings in the west. By contrast Scott's portray of the Templers (a Catholic Military order) was that they are all blood thirsty Christians. The people depicted the worst are the Catholic Clergy. And for all of you who saw the movie the ending wasn't even accurate. The only people who were allowed to leave the city were those that could pay. The rest were reduced to slaves and the women were used as concubines. The source for my information is from Father Leo Lefabure, who is a theology professor at Fordham University.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Storm I seen it also. It was entertaining, but don't think for a minute it is a documentary. Hollywood would like you to think that the whole world would be at peace if it wasn't for Christians. They think the first amendment to the constitution is for Muslims, Hindu, Buddhist, everything, but Christian.

This has been going on for some time, but has become much more prolific in the past 20 years. Look at the Passion for example, everyone thought that it would cause anti Semitism. This may upset some, but I truly believe that some hoped it would so it would give Christians another black eye.

Also, nearly everyone things the entire fault for the crusades falls on the Christians. I don't remember the year, 1385 I think, the Muslims burned the Church of the Holy Sepalcure, and killed every Christian they could find. I don't remember how everything occurred in chronological order, but if your interested google it.


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

The Muslims started their holy war to spread the religion, "Convert or die."

Thank God for the Spanish who defeated the Muslim Advance into the west.

The Crusades were definitely an ugly time (from my knowledge of them), but were hardly the entire fault of the Christians.

Jeff


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

GHM,
I am not an expert on the Crusades, but have started doing some research. From what I have learned the Crusades were a response to the Muslims moving out of places such as present day Turkey and North Africa in conquest of new territory and new converts. You are right by saying convert or die. The Church (which would be Catholic, since this was before the Reformation), had to act. The Pope called Catholics to Crusade against the Muslims. Thus was the begining of the Crusades. Now I'm not going to say that the Christians were completely innocent. Both sides did some very bad things and innocent lives were taken on both sides. The problem is that in most history books you are going to read will state that the Christians were out to kill every non Christian in site. This simply isn't true. The Crusades are credited with stopping the Muslim advance into Europe and perserving Christianity.


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

Storm said:


> GHM,
> I am not an expert on the Crusades, but have started doing some research. From what I have learned the Crusades were a response to the Muslims moving out of places such as present day Turkey and North Africa in conquest of new territory and new converts. You are right by saying convert or die. The Church (which would be Catholic, since this was before the Reformation), had to act. The Pope called Catholics to Crusade against the Muslims. Thus was the begining of the Crusades. Now I'm not going to say that the Christians were completely innocent. Both sides did some very bad things and innocent lives were taken on both sides. The problem is that in most history books you are going to read will state that the Christians were out to kill every non Christian in site. This simply isn't true. The Crusades are credited with stopping the Muslim advance into Europe and perserving Christianity.


Not to really disagree with you so much....but...from what I have read, and been taught, the Crusades were to combat the muslim advancement. That was the 1st crusade from what I remember. The first crusade captured Jerusalem I think...and after it fell the Saladin the second crusade was underway. The third crusade was an absolute mess by Pope Urban II...and resulted in the Magna Carta being signed...or atleast that is how I think I remember it working 

Also...it was the Spanish that stopped the spread of Islam into Europe, not a crusade. I will bet just about anything on that.

Jeff


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Guys,

What do you think we are doing right now over in the middle east???? Is it not a crusade against terrorism???? We use the word "terrorism" to justify our actions.......ok, ok....I know what you are going to say but I will put it plain and simple......Muslims and Christians will never be at peace....Never, Never, Never.....it is like oil and water....Rep. and Dem......Gohon and MT......lol....that was just a little comic relief there.... :wink:

None the less, we(Christians)...in general will be fighting with Muslims until the "2nd coming of our Lord".......its sad but I am afraid thats just the way it has always been and thats the way it will always be.

I personally can not justify any war that is started in the name of God...its a little contradictory if you think about it...

Hey, dont get me wrong....if "they" bring it to our soil....we need to "take it to their soil".....I am all for snuffing a few ********....ok....that was not needed....but these are my true feelings......


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

But....

How many millions of Muslims are at peace with Christians? I am not saying you are wrong by anymeans.

As the saying goes: 
"Not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are muslims."

Jeff


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

GHM,

You are wrong....when I joined the Marines I took an oath to "defend all enemies foreign and domestic"....if I remember correctly Tim McVay was a domestic terrorist....not???......Hell he was a member of the Army...at one time anyway....

Lets not "put it all on Muslims".......even though I agree they are the "main stay" of terrorism.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

GHM,
I have just begun studying about the crusades and honestly I know very little. I will have to look up what you wrote about Pope Urban II and Magna Carta.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Try this. It is sort of easy reading. It is one man's opinion.

www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/118/52.0.html


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

First, if I chewed tobacco, I would have spit in Jane Fonda's face. However, sorry in advance, I liked the movie. After all, it was entertainment and not a movie by Oliver Stoned! uke:


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