# Corn parade



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I drove through Oaks yesterday and could not believe the number of semi tractor trailer rigs. All with farm X or Y on the door. Corn on many was visible over the sides when there was no tarp. 
I bring this up because of the North Dakota Farm Bureau wanting some of the money for licenses from the Game and Fish because they believe hunters are destroying "their" township roads.
Now, I am happy for those farmers I observed yesterday. Even the ones who were evidently over weight limits on roads. I hope they appreciated that their price is up because of huge support prices for ethanol. I hope they don't belong to NDFB.

I have been thinking about this NDFB thing over the past week. I am disappointed with my friends at Farmers Union because they always vote ultra liberal. Like John Kerry for president. His wife's family didn't make millions paying farmers premium prices for their products. They made their millions paying as little as possible, and making sure they didn't have to pay premium prices.

Now NDFB wants to do away with regulations on agriculture. Do they want to do away with support prices also? My point to these questions is if they want our money why should there not be strings attached? If they want to sever all ties so be it. However, since drainage does so much in flood damage I would suggest they keep the water on their land or pay by the acre foot to cover downstream damage repair.

Then there are the pesticides. If they want to spray let them also pay damages on over spray. Also, lift the ban on imports of milk from Minnesota, grain, beef, etc from other places. After all shouldn't the consumer have a say in what he eats?

So here is where I find myself. If I pay a dollar more at the grocery store the farmer only gets a couple of pennies. If I pay a dollar in price support I don't suppose he gets a full dollar after it's run through the bureaucracy. Maybe he gets $0.75, but that's much better than he gets through the grocery store.

I have an extreme dislike for liberalism and consider myself very conservative, but I don't worship at the foot of business. After giving it much thought I guess I am more in line with the Farmers Union than the NDFB. I am because I think their policies would help the family farm survive longer than the NDFB. I will need to look into Farmers Union policies more closely. If NDFB is going to be so radical perhaps we hunters need to lend more support to other agriculture organizations. Also, lets not be afraid to openly oppose NDFB.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

So much for the "gracious out" :roll: . You really just can;t help yourself from slamming agriculture .

plainsman quote "Here we are on page 13 and we do not agree. Is there anyone that thinks we will all of a sudden agree on page 32? I think this post is a gracious out for everyone. I think anyone who continues past this is insane. So if your a nut job that just has to have your way have at it. Next " end quote 
Plainsman 
Supporting Member


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

This is a new thread gst.

Plainsman stated:


> I am happy for those farmers


gst stated:


> You really just can;t help yourself from slamming agriculture


I think the problem is between your ears gst. I noticed in the past you give references as proof of your point of view. I have news for you. References from articles that are not peer reviewed are not proof your simply posting another man's "opinion" as if it was proof.

Your angry that I don't like NDFB. They are an organization, who say they represent farmers. Knocking them is not the same as knocking a farmer. Your just not intelligent enough to understand that. You can convince fools gst, but if a man thinks for himself they will see through your wall of bull droppings. You want it both ways. You want no regulations, but I'll bet you still want to be face down in the government trough.

The whole point of my post is damage to township roads, who is doing it, and who doesn't have enough decency not to try rob the State Game and Fish. I look at NDFB and see no integrity. They can stick to their demands, and we can use it as a club, to expose their greed, and keep beating them over the head with it. It's something that is disgusting to the average citizen and I am going to keep bringing it up. Your simply crying gst because I will not voluntarily open all of my pockets to you. Go rob some other organization.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plainsman wrote,



> I have been thinking about this NDFB thing over the past week. I am disappointed with my friends at Farmers Union because they always vote ultra liberal. Like John Kerry for president. His wife's family didn't make millions paying farmers premium prices for their products. They made their millions paying as little as possible, and making sure they didn't have to pay premium prices.


John Kerrys wife is Terasa Heinz of the kechup company fame. They have a foundation or 501(c)3 where profits are pigeon holed so they do not have to pay taxes to the IRS. Terasa funneled two million from the foundation to the National Wildlife Federation. In return, as a big thank you, the NWF started a group called Sportsmen for John Kerry. However, John kind of botched things when he walked into a hardware store in Ohio dressed up like Elmer Fudd and said, "can I gits me a huntin' license here."

Plainsman, In some countries it requires 50% of the population to put up or gather food. In this country only 2% of the population is engaged? It free's up a lot of other people to pursue other endeavors. Bashing farmers should not be one of them.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Bashing farmers should not be one of them


I know you guys understand English, so I know you understand I wasn't bashing farmers. You follow Saul Alinski's strategy outlined in "Rules for Radicals". The idea is you make such offensive statements that they must be addressed. Go back and read


> I am happy for those farmers


. If you see that as bashing I'm going to think you never gradiated tird grade.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> This is a new thread gst.


 :roll:  riiiigggghhhhtttttt.



Plainsman said:


> Now NDFB wants to do away with regulations on agriculture.


This simply is not true. This measure will not "do away with regulations on agriculture". When you make this claim plainsman you are lying.



Plainsman said:


> Then there are the pesticides. If they want to spray let them also pay damages on over spray.


There are and will continue to be regulations covering pesticides that hold mis application accountable and liable. So when you insinuate this measure will end this plainsman you are lying.



Plainsman said:


> It's something that is disgusting to the average citizen and I am going to keep bringing it up


And when you do so in a manner that includes lying about agriculture I will continue to point out your lies.

Hey aren't you suppose to be "ignoring" me???? :wink: :roll:


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> I think the problem is between your ears gst. I noticed in the past you give references as proof of your point of view. I have news for you. References from articles that are not peer reviewed are not proof your simply posting another man's "opinion" as if it was proof.


Good to see you following your "nonpersonal" pledge you made, but then again as you stated, this IS a new thread so perhaps iot doesn;t apply here! 

As to providing links, are you suggesting a US govt link that clearly spells out that spending in tax dollars for agriculture is far below being second only to defense as YOU claimed it was is not factual proof that shows this particular claim you made regarding agriculture was a lie is not proof? :wink:


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

I tell you what plainsman, dislike NDFB all you wish, point out the policies you disagree with to whomever you wish, simply stop short of lying and making false claims you can not factually prove or substantiate and you can do whatever you wish without my having to involve myself ith this site any more.

I'm sure there are a few others on here besides myself that wish you woud simply stop making these claims you can not substantiate regarding agriculture so that would happen!!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> This simply is not true. This measure will not "do away with regulations on agriculture". When you make this claim plainsman you are lying.


That has to be about the tenth time you have called me a liar. First off I was not talking about any measure. I was talking about the things on their homepage that Swift posted. They don't want regulations.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Who pays? we all do. Even though I may live in the city only 25% or less of my state taxes go to that city. In ND the rest goes to the school district, park district and county of which some is trickled down to the townships. Now my share might not be much but it is still there. I don't care if the farmer owns land on both sides of it or not, In ND like it or not they ARE public roads. My driving on a township road in my passenger type vehicle 3 times a year isn't doing any more damage that the farm trucks and tractors that weigh at least 3 times as much using it 9 months of the year. Maybe we should do the complaining. 35 years ago township roads were in much better shape that they are now. They were generally maintained and mowed several times a year. You never saw a "minimim maintenance road" sign because most were drivable with a car. Not the case now If they were maintained they might not be so easy to tear up.

Now I do my best not to drive on wet sloppy roads and when I have to I try to do so in a manner to minimize damage so do a lot of other hunters. FWIW we don't like getting stuck on those roads. I can also say from experience that drunkend farm kids/hired help do as much to tear up these roads as hunters do. I've been on both ends of that issue.

My grandfather and uncles were farmers. When roads got tore up they fixed them rather than *****ing about it. No matter who tore them up. When my grandfather could no longer drive I was his driver. We probably should have stayed off many roads but he was the farmer and he wanted to use them even if it meant tearing them up, so we did.

I can ***** too. I'm tired of dodging mud clumps and beets on the hwy so farmers cover your trucks before you leave the field and scrape the mud off your trucks and tractors..


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> I drove through Oaks yesterday and could not believe the number of semi tractor trailer rigs. All with farm X or Y on the door. Corn on many was visible over the sides when there was no tarp.
> I bring this up because of the North Dakota Farm Bureau wanting some of the money for licenses from the Game and Fish because they believe hunters are destroying "their" township roads.
> Now, I am happy for those farmers I observed yesterday. Even the ones who were evidently over weight limits on roads. I hope they appreciated that their price is up because of huge support prices for ethanol. I hope they don't belong to NDFB.
> 
> ...


You're not a moderator Plains but rather a provocateur! :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm simply trying to alert people to the theft that could happen at Game and Fish. The provocation is NDFB's homepage. The subject is direved from that, and a post in another thread. It was important enough to bring it up in a separate discussion.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> I bring this up because of the North Dakota Farm Bureau wanting some of the money for licenses from the Game and Fish because they believe hunters are destroying "their" township roads.
> .


I have not paid attention to all the back and forth recently, nor do I really care. But if the above is true, the NDFB can go fly a F'in kite. Where did you read this Plainsman? Anybody who thinks they should get money from the god damn G&F for road repairs are on crack. I don't need to know another thing about them, I'm more than enough disgusted with them.

It's a damn road, are they not made for driving on?!?!?!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Swift found it on their homepage and posted the information and site address on the thread about the NDFB initiative.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Swift found it on their homepage and posted the information and site address on the thread about the NDFB initiative.


What page??? 

Would like to see what some of the others had to say regarding that.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Just because the piles in the semi trailers are high doesn't mean they are over loaded. I'm hauling to the elevator in town and roughly 80% of everyone hauling is within 500 pounds of 80,000 pounds.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> > This simply is not true. This measure will not "do away with regulations on agriculture". When you make this claim plainsman you are lying.
> 
> 
> That has to be about the tenth time you have called me a liar. First off I was not talking about any measure. I was talking about the things on their homepage that Swift posted. They don't want regulations.


plainsman, show me the NDFB resolution that says specifically this org. does not want ANY regulations on agriculture. What you do not seem able to comprehend, is these regulatiuons you beleive are necessary for you "city folk" also help to "protect" us rural folk as well. If you can not do that to claim they wish to end all regulations on agriculture as you did is a lie.



Plainsman said:


> Now NDFB wants to do away with regulations on agriculture


While your at it plainsman perhaps you could also address this lie you made referencing me as well.



Plainsman said:


> *You want no regulations*, but I'll bet you still want to be face down in the government trough


If you go back to a previous thread, (you know that one that ended with a "gracious out" ) :roll: you will see when bioman asked about this very claim I provided previous statements I made that referenced this very claim.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

biomans question regarding my position on regulations on agriculture.

Re: Farm Bureau Constitutional Amendment
by bioman » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:52 pm

So longshot, lets get rid of the Govt involvement in agriculture thru the farm program and along with it all the regulations tied to it such as Sod and Swampbuster AND conservation programs. You see any more the two can not be separated as these conservation orgs have embedded themselves squarely in the Farm Bill program and govts involvement in agriculture. Go to DU's or PF's website they have a specific farm bill link that talks about this. See what THEIR policy is in regards to govt "support" thru the CRP program.

Gabe, please elaborate on the highlighted quote. Are you inferring that ag producers should be 'free and clear' of federal regulations


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

My reply:

Edit postReport this postReply with quoteRe: Farm Bureau Constitutional Amendment
by gst » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:12 pm

Bioman, please show where I have EVER suggested agriculture should be "free and clear of Federal regulation" . Despite what b#llsh*t/lies plainsman claims, here in this very thread in the last couple of pages I have asked the question "does this mean agriculture should get a pass"? and have answered it with "of course not". In other threads I have suggested that EVERY industry/profession ect... INCLUDING ag needs REASONABLE regulations.

From a few posts back in this very thread.

gst wrote:
Those actively involved in agriculture realize just how fast technologies and advancements in agriculture are happening. As with ANY industry, care must be taken to ensure these advancements are actually positive for the long term along with the policies being put in place governing and regulating as well. Stop and consider for a moment the consequences of some of what were once well intended regulations.

AS I have said before, does this mean agriculture gets a pass? And as was answered before, of course not

Hopefully that clears that up directly despite plainsman's opinion/claims/whatever.

As to the Swampbuster and Sodbuster regulations, they are tied DIRECTLY to voluntary participation in the farm program. So as asked if the farm program subsidy payments to offset the cost of these restrictions that are placed on ag producers are taken, why should these regulations controling what is done on private lands remain? If you do not agree with this ideology, consider what our Constitution says about "takings".


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Adam, here is from on of Swifts posts. I am searching his posts, because it's easier than finding things on the NDFB page. However, I'll find it on there or one of swifts posts where they want money from Game and Fish licenses to pay for township roads.
If you think this is crazy check out some of these other posts where some thing the Wildlife Federation, and Ducks Unlimited are a problem. If memory serves me one guy things they are government front organizations for radicals.



> Air Quality 132
> We object to the Environment Protection Agency's (EPA) proposing lowering of the current eight-hour ozone standard, which will put McKenzie County and potentially North Dakota into non-attainment. --ID#: 1197/11 Clean Air 502
> 
> We oppose any EPA regulations regarding dust control. --ID#: 1445/11
> ...


Oh, Adam, here is a good place to start looking into NDFB.
http://www.ndfb.org/image/cache/Final_book_11_web.pdf

I don't think everything is crazy in there. As a matter of fact I perhaps agree with more than I disagree with. It's the greedy things that bother me most. As in getting any funding from the North Dakota Game and Fish. I live in the country. I pay more taxes on my house than my farm neighbor pays on a section of land. That doesn't make it "my road". I notice his big trucks on the road. When he gets to the elevator I hope he gets a good price. He drives on that road ten times as much as I do, and with vehicles that weigh ten times as much. I don't begrudge him that and wish him the best. However, I don't want any of my deer license going to pay for the road in front of my house.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> This is a new thread gst.


Indeed it appears to be a "new thread" :roll:


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

plainsman as was stated several times before, all that is being asked of you is to stop telling whoppers regarding agriculture.

Disagree with policy all you wish. Bash ag orgs and their producer members all you wish, but please stop telling lies you can not substantiate regarding agriculture and agriculture producers.

One would think that not too much to ask of a moderator on this site.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

blhunter3 said:


> Just because the piles in the semi trailers are high doesn't mean they are over loaded. I'm hauling to the elevator in town and roughly 80% of everyone hauling is within 500 pounds of 80,000 pounds.


Well, you would know more about that than I do. I do know they weigh more than my pickup.  I hope you understand that when I said I was happy for those farmers I was happy. I'm just ticked at the organizations that want Game and Fish money for township roads. I'm pointing out that my pickup on those roads is not what wears them out. Besides, I pay township taxes. I'm hope your one of the reasonable farmers that understand my gripe. I'll buy you coffee one of these mornings if you will educate and bring me up to date on some things.

Here you go Adam. Longshot found this information.


> We believe a fee should be added to hunting licenses for township road maintenance. --ID#: 1419/10


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

> We are opposed to any policies in the Forest Service
> Management Plan and/or its administrative rule for
> National Grasslands/Forest Service lands located within
> North Dakota that alters the multiple-use of such lands,
> ...


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

We are opposed to any policies in the Forest Service 
Management Plan and/or its administrative rule for 
National Grasslands/Forest Service lands located within 
North Dakota that alters the multiple-use of such lands, 
and that would adversely impact North Dakota residents. 
In addition, North Dakota Farm Bureau is opposed to any 
policy in the management plan for said lands that

2. Reduces the ability to fully develop all energy 
resources on such land, including, but not limited to, oil, 
wind, coal or gas resources;

In simple words Lets rape the public land till it is dust uke:


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

zogman said:


> > In simple words Lets rape the public land till it is dust uke:


It's too late. We are very close to that point already, and oil activity is only going to increase. I'm far from a hippie tree hugger, but at some point this crap has gotta stop, or at least slow down. There will be nothing left of the Grasslands. Goat season is closed, mule deer numbers are down (not from cats by the way  ), she's in tough shape. But hey, nothing a couple hundred more wells can't cure, right?



> North Dakota grasslands oil and gas projects expedited
> Story
> Discussion
> Associated Press | Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 10:13 am | (6) Comments
> ...


I'm sorry, but I'm sick of the oil BS in ND.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

What bothers me is that the radical views of the NDFB will damage farmers I care about. It's like the unions. I would bet the things the unions support are not supported by all of their members. I suppose that's true of any organization, but if people start to think that all farmers think like the NDFB that would be wrong. There in lies the danger for good farmers who respect the land, their neighbors, and appreciate what they have.

As far as the grasslands I remember the power grab the North Dakota Grazing Association made a few years ago. I remember ranchers moving cattle in the fall and riding into our camp. They shoved a petition in our face and were not polite at all. They said if we didn't sign either way we would never hunt there again. You can about guess what I told them. I didn't much care if he was packing a Ruger Super Blackhawk and I had a bow. He can kiss my little white behind. Fools like that only create enemies for the other reasonable ranchers. What an idiot.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> As far as the grasslands I remember the power grab the *North Dakota Grazing Association* made a few years ago.


One time I was out fencing across a crick bottom and a Federal "trained research biologist" came and told me I could not pound posts in the crick bottom because I might kill a salamander that had gone into hibernation without knowing it. I thought I glimpsed the butt of a Ruger Black Hawk sticking out of his belt, but I told him he could "kiss my little white behind" anyway even though all I had was a post ponder!! Fools like that only create enemies for the other reasonable "trained research biologists" practicing "sound science". 

As you see, any one can tell a "story". :wink: I do EMPHASIZE the "story" part of what has been written! :roll:

Plainsman EXACTLY which "North Dakota Grazing Association" was this??? As you have capitalized the words in the name, was it thee "North Dakota Grazing Association"???

Please substantiate.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plainsman wrote,



> As far as the grasslands I remember the power grab the North Dakota Grazing Association made a few years ago. I remember ranchers moving cattle in the fall and riding into our camp. They shoved a petition in our face and were not polite at all. They said if we didn't sign either way we would never hunt there again. You can about guess what I told them. I didn't much care if he was packing a Ruger Super Blackhawk and I had a bow. He can kiss my little white behind. Fools like that only create enemies for the other reasonable ranchers. What an idiot.


This whole story is a fabrication. About elevan years ago there was a push by the fed/gov to limit the rights of the people living in the grasslands. The ranchers organized and I recall they spent some time in Fargo and other places trying to educate the public about the issue. I don't believe they had a petition but instead they were asking people to sign a letter of support.

Plainsman, If it was a petition, what was the name of it? You will need to name it to back up your claim. Clue, it was approxiamately in the year of 2000.

In the end, the grazing associations got Senators Dorgan and Conrad involved and the feds backed off.

Got anymore stories???????????????? Next


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plainsman said at the very beginnig of this thread,



> I have an extreme dislike for liberalism and consider myself very conservative, but I don't worship at the foot of business. After giving it much thought I guess I am more in line with the Farmers Union than the NDFB. I am because I think their policies would help the family farm survive longer than the NDFB. I will need to look into Farmers Union policies more closely. If NDFB is going to be so radical perhaps we hunters need to lend more support to other agriculture organizations. Also, lets not be afraid to openly oppose NDFB.


Plainsman, When you say "WE HUNTERS" who are you referring to?

The United Sportsmen Of ND? No you do not speak for them.

Or maybe Fair Chase Committee types partnered with the Humane Society of the United States?

Plainsman, When you say "WE HUNTERS" need to lend more support to other agriculture organizations, what makes you think they would want your support?

You see, I have been busy educating them about you, yours and the HSUS connection. They know Bruce, they know.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

When I say we hunters I mean each person individually that picks up a gun or bow and goes to the field to hunt. That would include many farmers themselves. NDFB's radical stand doesn't do much for farmer public relations. Trying to rob the Game and Fish just makes them look like a bunch of -----well, thieves.

Also shaug as long as your educating tell them I didn't sponsor the measure this time and HSUS was part of the reason. Of course you constantly forget that because you need to creat a boogeyman that's crazier than hmmmm, not crazier than, but crazy just like HSUS. You wont forget again now will you?


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

shaug said:


> You see, I have been busy educating them about you, yours and the HSUS connection. They know Bruce, they know.


When you say "you, yours and the HSUS connection", does that include people like me who dont very much like the idea of the NDFB collecting money from the NDGF for road repairs, among other things? Just curious, are you warning "them" about me?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Shaug here is something you can tell them I think, and thousands more think. gst talks about feeding the world. Anyone concerned with feeding the world would not turn corn into ethanol. Ethanol is a huge loss for the taxpayer supporting it, and the world people are starving because of it. So what's the real priority here, money in the pocket or food in stomachs? When they want money from the Game and Fish it looks to me like they are always looking for a victim that can put money in their pocket.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

AdamFisk said:


> When you say "you, yours and the HSUS connection", does that include people like me who dont very much like the idea of the NDFB collecting money from the NDGF for road repairs, among other things?


Adam, simply pointing out that the policy of NDFB is that the monies do NOT go to NDFB but rather directly to the townships for road maintainance. Of course the normal wear and tear that occurs thru out the year on these roads by farmers is a part of the road maintainance funding that comes directly out of the farmers pocket who pay county land taxes dollar. What is being advocated for is IF and WHEN and only IF and WHEN there arises situations where by roads are damaged directly as a result of hunting traffic, (rain during the peak times of road use, most often opening weekend of deer season) the TOWNSHIP, (not NDFB) could apply for funding to offset the cost of repairing (most time simply blading). Right or wrong in your eyes, agree or disagree, at least please consider the facts rather than what plainsman comes up with.

Here is a question for you Adam if you would please answer it. Say you live and work whereby you are traveling these township roads daily. Opening weekend of deer season comes and there is 2 inches of rain. Some of these roads are pounded to crap with literally hundreds of vehicles traveling roads not designed for that. Prior to it drying out, the ground freezes so maintainance can not be done. What would be YOUR response honestly to the damage done specifically by those vehicles that were only on that road for hunting purposes?

Contrary to dakota shooters claims, many townships have bladed roads where only prairie trailes existed before on section lines. these are often only dirt based roads with a thin layer of gravel applied. Is most often these roads that are damaged the most during the above scenario. During the year, those farmers with those trucks plainsman likes to suggest are always overloaded stay off them when they are wet simply because they know the affects if they do not. Suddenly along comes opening weekend of deer season and the people traveling and damaging these roads directly have only one concern and it is not traveling these roads for the next 350 some odd days, so honestly if you lived and dealt with this situation, what would your response be.

It is not just the "greedy farmer" , but many county road supervisors that are responsible for using avalible funds (many times in short supply) for road maintainance and building that beleive this policy is possibly not as much "theivery" as some claim.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Adam wrote,



> When you say "you, yours and the HSUS connection", does that include people like me who dont very much like the idea of the NDFB collecting money from the NDGF for road repairs, among other things? Just curious, are you warning "them" about me?


Nope, what I said does not include you. Most members of Farm Bureau, Farmers Union, Stockmens to name a few ag orgs are already hunters. Hunters in general do belong to something but the fair chase committee wasn't one of them. The FCC publically stated they represent tens of thousands of hunters. They do not. Plainsman would like to put as much distance as possible between himself and the FCC.

Hunting is supposed to be a fun outdoor activity. It is a states rights issue unless we unwittingly hand the reins over.
Truth is, Plainsman needs this friction and division.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

gst said:


> AdamFisk said:
> 
> 
> > When you say "you, yours and the HSUS connection", does that include people like me who dont very much like the idea of the NDFB collecting money from the NDGF for road repairs, among other things?
> ...


Gst, however you put it, doesn't change anything for me. Ok, the money is going from the G&F to the Township for road repairs. I still don't agree with that. I don't know about you, but I can think of a lot more important things I'd like the G&F to spend my money on besides road repairs.

As to your question gst, I obviously wouldn't enjoy driving over rutted up roads (who does), but sorry to say, rutted up roads are part of life. It rains and people still need to get around. I understand roads need to get fixed, but not out of the pockets of NDGF. I do believe we all pay taxes yet, don't we?


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

gst said:


> ...those farmers with those trucks plainsman likes to suggest are always overloaded stay off them when they are wet simply because they know the affects if they do not.


gst, you are so full of BS it's almost entertaining. You may want to travel outside your own neighborhood for once. You may find that your claims are far from true in many cases. Why do you think there are load restrictions in the spring? Who are those restrictions for? It sure isn't for passenger vehicles. Yet every spring we see farm equipment (heavy machinery) moving on gravel roads. Gravel roads are not restricted because work needs to get done, but to tell me that a few pickups cause anywhere near as much damage as ag equipment, I know you are either blind or misleading.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plainsman would like to put as much distance as possible between himself and the FCC.


I have as much distance as I need, and that came from gst when he told the whole world what I told him in a PM (Private Message). They didn't ask for my input, and I hate HSUS. I perhaps would not have even got in the debate if some on here had not started shoveling bull droppings.

Plainsman needs this friction and division.

I don't need it, and I don't want it. It is being created by NDFB and guys like gst and shaug. How many people do you think will agree with stealing from the Game and Fish. NDFB can't hide behind the townships, because they are the ones calling for it. I live in the country, pay township taxes, and you have no right to money from my license fees to the Game and Fish. None. NDFB is way out lf line, and they are not making points for farmers. They make you look greedy. Now before gst flips out I didn't call you greedy (of course he will claim that) I said NDFB makes you look greedy.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Adam, 
If you would please let me ask you a couple of questions to get your answer to.

How much of your "taxes" you pay actually get to township road repair?

If you were on a township board and responsible for the maintainance of the township roads, what would you think if roads that had been maintained in good condition all summer went into freeze up all rutted up simply because it rained 2 inches opening weekend of deer season?

There are many township officers that are members of NDFB. Take the time to take off your hunting/sporstmen boots and put yourself in their shoes for one moment.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

shaug said:


> Truth is, Plainsman needs this friction and division





Plainsman said:


> I don't need it, and I don't want it. It is being created by NDFB and guys like gst and shaug


And yet who exactly started this "new" totaly separate unrelated :roll: thread bashing an ag org and it's producer members?



spentwings said:


> You're not a moderator Plains but rather a provocateur!


 :eyeroll:

plainsman still waiting for you to substantiate exactly which grazing association it was in your "story"?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> plainsman still waiting for you to substantiate exactly which grazing association it was in your "story"?


You know. I don't. The same one that had the petitions in Trappers Kettle, in Belfield. They also had hearings in (can't remember the town) for the Sheyenne Grasslands, and a couple out west with one in Watford City. I'm sure you know exactly which grazing association.

The purpose of the thread was to talk about what is damaging roads, and who wants someone else to pay for it. Anything beyond that developed in debate.



> There are many township officers that are members of NDFB. Take the time to take off your hunting/sporstmen boots and put yourself in their shoes for one moment.


No problem. I'm in their shoes. Hmmmm I don't feel like ripping off the Game and Fish. I guess it didn't work.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plainsman said,



> You know. I don't. The same one that had the petitions in Trappers Kettle, in Belfield. They also had hearings in (can't remember the town) for the Sheyenne Grasslands, and a couple out west with one in Watford City. I'm sure you know exactly which grazing association.


Plainsman, if you can name that petition? Hearings?????????? or public forums????? I don't believe there was a petition. More like the ranchers were getting out and asking the public to support them, to support ag, to support ranching.

Several years ago I was visiting with the leader of the McKenzie County Grazing Association about this issue. It was about year 2000. Plainsman, you are the one making claims here. No one else here should now have to do the leg work for you. Name that petition!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'll do this for you. Last time the Forest Service opened up for public input two organizations tried for more control. The Sierra Club and a Grazing organization. I don't remember the name of it, but I know you and gst know. I know others will remember this too. Simply because I don't remember off hand means nothing.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> As far as the grasslands I remember the power grab *the North Dakota Grazing Association* made a few years ago.


plainsman as shaug said, this is YOUR "story" here, don;t drag shaug or I into substantiating it. YOU claimed the "North Dakota Grazing Association" had the petitions and their rancher members were harassing you (ruger black hawk and all) to sign this petition. As far as I know there has never been a "North Dakota Grazing Association" so substantiate your "story" or it will be given the credibility your fellas in Billings and the rancher that flunked out of Bottineau School of Forestry "stories" (as well as your claims there is no such thing as notill corn planting and Federal tax dollars spent on ag subsidies are second only to defense spending) have been given. :wink:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

You know what petition I'm talking about. Hoeven had you guys parading in front of the Forest Service at their meetings with ranchers and the public. Maybe they are not called the North Dakota Grazing Association, but you being in ranching know exactly what I am talking about.

It looks like they are at it again. http://bismarcktribune.com/news/state-a ... 03286.html

However, this doesn't have much to do with theft of Game and Fish funds. Don't you want to talk about that?


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> You know what petition I'm talking about. *Hoeven had you guys parading in front of the Forest Service* at their meetings with ranchers and the public.* Maybe they are not called the North Dakota Grazing Association[/b], but you being in ranching know exactly what I am talking about.*


*

Which "you guys" would that be?? I have never been a member of ANY grazing assoc. nor carried any "petition" nor "paraded" in front of the Forrest Service. Now your claiming Gov. Hoven was in on this "harassment"? Perhaps even orchestrating it? :roll:

plainsman it seems you have a problem getting the "facts" right in your "stories". So now you are backpedaling once again from a claim you made??? Was it or was it not the "North Dakota Grazing Association"???

I do not know anything about the "association" or "petition" in your "story". There are a number of different grazing associations here in ND. So perhaps as it is YOUR "story" YOU should be the one substantiating it.

Perhaps that fella that you claimed knows all about me you met out in Billings in another of your "stories" can help you out in substantiating another of your "claims" ! :wink:

Perhaps if you would simply quit making claims you can not substantiate regarding agriculture, the threads could stay "on topic".*


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think I may have to have a poll and see who supports taking Game and Fish money for township roads. A couple of our township officers live right across the road from me. I need to ask them what funds and tax money is used for township roads.

As far as substantiating things you don't. Much of what you think is proof is simply opinions of others. If they are not peer reviewed and based on data they are not proof. Most often both you and I have opinions, nothing more, nothing less.

Your right there are many grazing associations. It appears that those in North Dakota want to violate the freedom of information act.



> Ranchers want grazing permit information kept confidential
> 
> From the Fall 2000 issue of The News Media & The Law, page 29.
> 
> ...


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman, so can we then assume you are not going to "substantiate" YOUR "story" about the fella from the ND Grazing Association and his harrasing you to sign a petition with his Ruger Blackhawk as a part of Gov Hovens master plan???  :roll:


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

gst, do you still support the theft of G&F money to support township roads? Can we assume you will not substantiate your stories of hunters destroying these roads? Can you show me the proof that passenger vehicles cause as much or more damage than heavy machinery?


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

longshot, please show where I have ever claimed hunters vehicles have "destroyed" roads. If you can not it seems as if you are following the path of another moderator of this site making claims against someone you can not substantiate. :wink:

If you wish to beleive that some township roads are not "damaged" over opening weekend of deer season if there were 2 inches of rain by passenger vehicles, please feel free to beleive whatever you would like, including plainsmans "stories". :wink:


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Gst, you can keep asking the questions and hypothetical scenarios, but my answer won't change. I will never agree with taking money from the NDGF and giving it to townships for road damages. In my eyes (no matter who's hypothetical shoes I'm in), their time and money is much better spent on other things, and road construction doesn't fall under their responsibilities.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> harrasing you to sign a petition with his Ruger Blackhawk as a part of Gov Hovens master plan?


gst, stick with the truth please. Your deceiving people. I never said he harassed with his Blackhawk. I said I didn't care if he was wearing one I told him what I thought anyway. Your not that stupid gst, so it's becoming clear to everyone you don't stick with truth.

Now gst do you support taking Game and Fish money for township roads?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

gst said:


> How much of your "taxes" you pay actually get to township road repair?


You keep asking this question, I don't know the answer. Do you? How much of your taxes goes to pay the maintenance on county and township roads. How much of your taxes goes to maintenance on city streets in this state. More on this later.



gst said:


> Here is a question for you Adam if you would please answer it. Say you live and work whereby you are traveling these township roads daily. Opening weekend of deer season comes and there is 2 inches of rain. Some of these roads are pounded to crap with literally hundreds of vehicles traveling roads not designed for that. Prior to it drying out, the ground freezes so maintainance can not be done. What would be YOUR response honestly to the damage done specifically by those vehicles that were only on that road for hunting purposes?


Every year, spring planting season comes as well as fall harvest. Every year during these times the residential street in front of my house has tractors, farm trucks, pickups pulling anhydrous tanks, semi-trucks hauling grain and even a combine or two. They use my street as a short-cut instead of using the required truck route. Residential streets are not made to handle traffic of this sort and anhydrous tanks should never be pulled through a residential area.

How much damage is being done to my street by these large overweight vehicles, a street that was not designed for this type of vehicle? How much are these farmers contributing to the maintenance of my street that their vehicles are pounding the crap out of? This I do know, exactly zero.

The repairs on my street are paid for by special assessment taxes. These special taxes are assessed to the property owners who live adjacent to the streets being repaired.

Perhaps instead of robbing the game and fish funds the state should just institute a special assessment tax for township and county roads. Any time a road needs repair the property owners who live adjacent to that road are assessed a special tax to pay for the repairs. You know, just like what happens to those living in cities when their streets need repair.

Yeah, I know, most farmers know better than to drive their overweight vehicles on residential streets and would never consider pulling a anhydrous tank through a residential area. It's just a few guys who don't care about the damage that they may cause.

Kind of like the hunters, most of us avoid those roads that are soft and get torn up when it is wet. It's just a few guys that don't care about the damage that they may cause.

And to be honest, most of the wet township roads that I see damaged, have been damaged by big, heavily lugged tires, you know, the kind that commonly come on tractors. I'll try and get pictures for you this year.

huntin1


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> > harrasing you to sign a petition with his Ruger Blackhawk as a part of Gov Hovens master plan?
> 
> 
> gst, stick with the truth please. Your deceiving people. I never said he harassed with his Blackhawk. I said I didn't care if he was wearing one I told him what I thought anyway. Your not that stupid gst, so it's becoming clear to everyone you don't stick with truth.
> ...


plainsman, apparently you missed the  :roll: at the end of that statement indicating a bit of sarcasm and well disbelief in your "story".

But I tell you what I will directly answer your question regarding taking G&F monies for road maintainance as soon as you substantiate the claim you made regarding the "North Dakota Grazing Association" and this petition.

Oh hell we all know you will not substantiate this claim/"story" any more than many of the others you make regarding agriculture. So I will just go ahead and answer your question. No I do not support taking G&F monies for road maintainance. I would just as soon the G&F have as little to do, outside of maintaining weed control on their properties, with local governance. I simply can see where the people advocating for this are coming from as I watch firsthand and deal with what the driving factor behind this policy was after any wet opening weekend of deer season, but I do not support it.

There are a number of policies of ag groups I do not necessarily agree with. And having sat on a resolutions committe for a period of time on one ag org. there are other orgs that do not do a very thourough due diligence of covering their resolutions and policies. But simply because I do not agree with 100% of the policies of an org, does not mean I do not support the org. As a member of these grassroots orgs, you can always choose to work to change policy if you wish. There in lies the difference with these orgs as say a DU or NWF where members have very little input into policy developement.

So go ahead and bash my answer to your question as well as ag orgs and their producer members all you wish. Just PLEASE try and refrain from making more claims regarding agriculture you can not substantiate.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Huntin one, I beleive there are laws prohibiting the pulling of anhydrous tanks thru residential areas and I beleive cities have the ability to zone out agricultural traffic to prevent what you are claiming from damaging roads making doing so a violation of city ordinance. Explain how townships can do this regarding those few that damage township roads during a wet hunting season?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> plainsman, apparently you missed the


I didn't miss it, I just worried others may not understand it and actually believe that dumb *** statement, but then that's your MO.



> No I do not support taking G&F monies for road maintainance.


Good, and my idea is to expose them until they drop it. There are two ways to change policy. One from inside the organization and two enough public disagreement to make them understand they are crapping in their own nest.


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## lesser (Nov 13, 2008)

Simple answer then. GST can get rid of it from inside and we can oppose it from the outside. Unless this is another one of the items that GST says he dosn't agree with publically, but just sits on his hands when it comes time to step up to the plate and do whats right like all the other crooks in this country that call themselves leaders. And yes I am assuming you have some connections on the inside of this org. you guys are referring to. If not you can help plainsman and the rest of us from the outside. I am a farmer and I think we (farmers) should get off our high horses and remember more often than not we are asking the tax payers for help and now we get a good stretch and we want to burry them. Just makes sense for us to step up to the plate and help out the ruts we make every year. The hypothetical chance of rain on deer opener is a chance, but it is a fact that it will rain in harvest and planting season at some point. If you think a pickup does remotly the damage of a smi truck you are whacked.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

lesser, God bless you. It's guys like you that we want to help. I consider people with your attitude the salt of the earth. I have friends that farm and think the same as you, but your one of the first to post. I can't begin to tell you how much I appreciate it. I know most would agree with you and I have to keep telling myself they are not like some of the radicals in the NDFB. If I didn't keep reminding myself of that I would get a real bad attitude. Thanks again, and wish you the best.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

I have said in the past, I do not have much involvement in either the NDFB or the NDFU. I probably should be more involved, but have chosen to focas my involvement in livestock based orgs. both state and national as that is what I am most tied to in interest. It does not mean I do not support much of what these other orgs. stand for. Some policies I feel strongly about I do involve myself with but to tell you the truth, this one is not one of them. As one becomes involved in these orgs you understand as I said before, some of these policies/resolutions are kind of like a Christmas wish list. And not really actively pursued. If you do not understand this,please tell me the last time there was legislation introduced to accomplish this goal of taking monies from the G&F for road maintainance. If it is a resolution that is being actively pursued, the org. will advocate for it by getting sponsors in the legislative arena. If they are not doing so, to me it is not a big enough issue to deal with as there are indeed much bigger fish to fry. Some orgs as I said simply do not do IMO a good enough job monitoring and dealing one way or another with resolutions or policy.

So if you guys are opposed to this policy that strongly, by all means do what you feel you must. But PLEASE stop short of making claims you can not substantiate as true or factual regarding agriculture.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> > Just because the piles in the semi trailers are high doesn't mean they are over loaded. I'm hauling to the elevator in town and roughly 80% of everyone hauling is within 500 pounds of 80,000 pounds.
> ...


Sorry for the delay, I have been hauling beans and corn...

Maybe not township roads, but the section line roads that the snow goose hunters seem to think they need to go down a rut the eff out of them and then I have to spend a day to get them in drivable shape.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Too hot ,too cold, too wet, too dry.


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