# Our wonderful liberal public schools



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Isn't the liberal idea of social promotions, to keep the childrens from having "self esteem" problems working well. I wonder how "esteem" is going to allow them to earn a living uke: 
First and foremost they should be required to learn fluent english before any advancement in school without that skill they have a huge obstacle to success in the US. We speak and do commerce in English how obvious is that. I bet most of the failing kids know all the words to plenty of rap songs, though pointing that out is not PC is it :eyeroll: 
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... k=morenews

20% of Seniors Flunk High School Graduation Exam
Nearly 100,000 statewide are in jeopardy of not earning diplomas, a report says. They have until June to pass the two-part, two-day test.
By Duke Helfand
LA Times Staff Writer

October 1, 2005

Nearly 100,000 California 12th graders - or about 20% of this year's senior class - have failed the state's graduation exam, potentially jeopardizing their chances of earning diplomas, according to the most definitive report on the mandatory test, released Friday.

Students in the class of 2006, the first group to face the graduation requirement, must pass both the English and math sections of the test by June.

*The exit exam *- which has come under criticism by some educators, legislators and civil rights advocates - *is geared to an eighth-grade level in math and to ninth- and 10th-grade levels in English.* :eyeroll:

But the report by the Virginia-based Human Resources Research Organization showed that tens of thousands of students, particularly those in special education and others who speak English as a second language, may fail the test by the end of their senior year despite remedial classes, after-school tutoring and other academic help.

Teachers, according to the report, said that many students arrive unprepared and unmotivated for their high school courses and that their grades often reflect poor attendance and low parental involvement.
The group reviewed the test results as part of a report ordered by the Legislature when it instituted the exit exam several years ago.

Among its findings: 63% of African Americans and 68% of Latinos in the class of 2006 have passed both parts of the exam.

By comparison, 89% of Asians and 90% of whites have passed. The report recommended that the state keep the exam but consider several alternatives for students who can't pass.

"Clearly, we need to have some options for these students," said Lauress L. Wise, the firm's president, in a telephone interview with reporters.

The state, for example, could allow seniors to submit portfolios of work that demonstrate mastery of English and math, the report's authors suggested.

The report also proposed that schools allow students to spend an extra year in high school or earn diplomas by completing special summer school programs in lieu of the exam.

Additionally, the state could establish alternate diplomas or graduation certificates for students who pass part of the exit exam, the group said.

But California's superintendent of public instruction, Jack O'Connell, said he opposes any change that would diminish the worth of a high school diploma. :beer:

"It's important to keep one core principle front and center: awarding a student a diploma without the skills and knowledge to back it up does the student a disservice," :beer: :beer: said O'Connell, who added that his staff would study the options outlined in the report.

The exit exam was originally slated for students in the class of 2004. But disappointing passing rates prompted state education officials to push the requirement back two years. The state also shortened the test from three days to two.

Students get several opportunities to pass the exam in high school, and they have to correctly answer only a little more than half of the questions to succeed. :eyeroll:

Even so, the exam has come under legal attack by disability rights advocates who fear the effect on special education students; just 35% of such students have passed both parts of the exam so far.

A bill recently approved by the Legislature, which sought to settle a special education lawsuit, would delay the requirement for another two years for many students with disabilities. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has not indicated his position on the measure.

Special education advocates and others who oppose the mandatory graduation requirement called Friday's report a sobering wake-up call.

Opponents of the exam said that it penalizes minority students and those in low-income communities whose overcrowded schools often lack experienced teachers and other necessary resources.

"It's unfair to give this test because of the unequal school system we have," said Edgar Sanchez, who teaches U.S. history at Washington Preparatory High School in South Los Angeles. "Every day I see students go through conditions of overcrowding. Sometimes students don't have a desk to sit at."

Los Angeles High School senior D'Janay O'Neal had another complaint. She said she freezes up on the math portion of the test because "math has never been my strong suit." :eyeroll:

D'Janay, 17, said she passed the English section on the first try but has failed the math part three times. She is taking an extra remedial math class this semester to help her pass the test, in addition to her Algebra II class and two Advanced Placement courses. She said she has a 2.0 grade point average.

"I am totally freaking out that I may not graduate," said D'Janay, who attended a rally against the exit exam this week in a park next to her high school.

"No matter what happens, I'm going to college because I need college to further my education," she said. 

The high school protesters - carrying banners that read "Educate Don't Terminate" and "Don't Judge Students By One Test" - denounced the exam as discriminatory.

They called for Schwarzenegger to sign another bill that would allow schools districts the freedom to evaluate students through alternative assessments such as portfolios of work. The Legislature recently approved the bill, which is sitting on the governor's desk. Schwarzenegger has not taken a position on the bill, a spokeswoman said.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

"I cant tell ya what Mean, Median, or Mode is, But I needs college sos I can advance myself...." said Johnny Schleprod, a potential highschool dropout.

Yes that was a bit of humor on my part, but hey, its also the truth. Todays public schools focus on two things.

The first is that college is essential to a good paying job and a successful career. Never mind the fact that a degree in sociology didnt do squat for your plumber, and your electrician probably never dissected more than your average high school toad. We as a country are facing a shortage of skilled labor. My family owns a plumbing company, and its getting harder and harder to find anyone under 40 with the brains to solve any kind of problem that also doesnt mind going home stinking to high heaven occasionally. It has been especially hard to find an educated individual to run my pumper trucks.

Secondly, and now more so than ever, high schools across the country are teaching everything but the basic Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic. Not to long ago I was reading an article regarding the low math scores of a particular school. The problem? The Math teachers # 1 teaching priority had nothing to do with numbers. It was _racial sensitivity_. It doesnt matter if you go to school and learn anything, so long as you come out of it loving yourself and others as much as Rosie O'donnel loves frosting right outta the tub.

Were in for a wild ride folks, and unfortunately, its going to be my generation in the next 15 to 20 years trying to run a buisness with no qualified employees to be had.


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

Knowledge starts early, real early! It doesn't happen during your high school education, if anything it builds on what you already have learned as a young child - think about it...

I can't stress this enough - Birth to age 8 are the most important years of a child's life! The first three years of a child's life he/she will have billions of brain cells and will slowly lose them over time.

Think of it this way... Use it or lose it! How many times do you need to dial a phone number and if you do it a lot you remember the number. If you don't dial the number you lose it! Children are wired to learn right away and it doesn't start after the poop, etc. People/teachers need to create an env. that helps children learn no matter what age a child is...

www.zerotothree.org - check out the topics for info if you have a young child...


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

Bobm said:


> Los Angeles High School senior D'Janay O'Neal had another complaint. She said she freezes up on the math portion of the test because "math has never been my strong suit." :eyeroll:


I had to admin a test "assessment" with 3-5 year olds... I watched children excel and most of them started to cry throughout the process. Then try to explain to a parent the results... Oh, your child didn't complete much of the test because they started to cry or just didn't know what to do.

I like some things about No Child Left Behind... But screwing with children's minds at such a young age and then continue this BS till they graduate high school... :-?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Well I can only speak to my own experience but I've only seen one person cry from the stress of a test and it was a college age girl, she was more interested in her appearance than studying. Social promotion robs a child of opportunity to succeed. I run a fairly good size company and I can't count the number of supposed high school graduates that come to us without basic writing and spelling skills. I don't hire them and always wonder and worry what will happen to the throughout their life :eyeroll:

Their are no social promotions in adult business life unfortunately many of these kids are already in situations that make it doubly tough for the to learn what they should of in grammar school.

Anyone against testing and holding these kids back until they truly understand the material is dooming them to a life of ignorance. They are also forcing dependence on the ones that have applied themselves(taxpayers), thats not compassion its dispicable. 
I am beginning to wonder if its not intentional, most of our bloated federal govt depends on this dependency for its existance. The same govt has dumbed down the standards in the government schools. These dumbed down residents become the basis for the support of these rotten politicians.


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## sevendogs (Sep 19, 2003)

Is it a result of "no chiled left behind policy"? This tells us that public schools are underfunded and poorly managed. Hopefully it will change, when Bush and a bunch of Repoublicans would be kicked out of the office.
Now, after so many eye opening events, only darkest forces of our country still support current administration.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Bobm, there is really no need to wonder if it is intentional or not. The below information was made public four years ago.

"NEA To Support Non-Testing Measures, gay education, partnership with AFT

LOS ANGELES (AP) - In a boost to families opposed to standardized testing, National Education Association convention delegates voted to support laws enabling parents to let their children opt out of the exams.

The measure represents the teachers union's strongest stance yet against standardized testing, a cornerstone of President Bush education plan and a central element of many school districts' programs".

If that wasn't enough.................

" In other action, the union approved forming a partnership with the American Federation of Teachers, once a rival union. AFT members will vote on the partnership July 11.

The NEA has about 2.6 million members. AFT has more than 1 million members, most working in urban school districts.
Teachers' union sets gay issues task force--[Excerpt]--LOS ANGELES - The nation's largest teachers' union dropped consideration yesterday of a resolution that would have encouraged schools to develop materials supporting the struggles of gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender students and staff.

Officials of the National Education Association said they would instead form a task force to explore the issue ''in a holistic, reasoned way'' before taking any further action.

''This is an emotional topic for everyone and we believe a task force is the best way to first hear everyone's voice and then develop actions that will create safer schools for children and staff,'' said Cathy Figel, who cochairs the union's Gay and Lesbian Caucus".

This all took place back in 2001 so as you see it has been going on for some time now.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Interesting article,
I agree with you about the leadership of the NEA but I also know enough teachers to know that many in the rank and file are not supportive of any of the non sense like that they just belong for other benefits.

Its like the Democrat party there are many good conservatives that are democrats, unfortunately the lunatic left is currently in control of the party.


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

> Its like the Democrat party there are many good conservatives that are democrats, unfortunately the lunatic left is currently in control of the party.


I think the same can be said about the Republican party.

TC


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

It's perspective. Perhaps from your position you see Bush as far right, but I see him as left of center within the republican party. Think about it for a while. There are people far right of the republican party itself as there are people left of the democratic party. Ol seven dogs said why not socialism not that long ago. I would consider him ----- well, I'll bet old Hillary if she told the truth would be left of the democratic party.


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

Bobm said:


> I also know enough teachers to know that many in the rank and file are not supportive of any of the non sense like that they just belong for other benefits.


I was a member of NEA for the benefits... When I first started teaching I felt pressured by fellow teachers to join.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't agree with the NEA on some things either.Like their support of gun control.But I had no choice if I wanted to belong to the state and local associations.

I want input on local things like negotiations.I also get liability insurance from belonging and representation in legal matters.So you take the bad with the good.

My job and well being is more important than things like gun control,so I just have to put up with the liberal slant of the NEA>


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Ken W I understand your point, that your job and well being is more important than gun control. However dont forget the day may come when you can not own a gun, goverment will rule all with their guns and they may be telling you or your children to sew stars on their sleave!!! I think this happend once?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Bore....what you are saying is probably true....but I can't afford to not belong.No different than being in the minority in any group.You belong and try to change it.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Ken W Good luck! Thats all you can do, I am not judging you.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

the leaf doesn't fall far from the tree... Show me a good student and I will show you a good parent. Show me a bad school and I will show you a lot of bad parents. And then there are a very few that can rise above their destiny.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Oh, oh...I am only speaking for North Dakpta schools. Someone explain to me how the federal government knows how to run public schools? Which parts of the federal government run good solid programs? And now they are going to take over public school education? I fear for public school education. As schools have lost more and more authority to control what happens in their buildings they have in my opinion began a downward spiral. In the good old days of one room school houses the parents took ownership and the schools had control over what went on in their buidings. Now the Federal government is taking control of ownership? Whoa! I fear the fiuture.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Someone explain to me how the federal government knows how to run public schools?


You will note in the summery below that the Federal Government is not running anything. As a matter of fact it is plain that the State is in control. I can only assume and I may very well be wrong but your comment was directed towards the NCLB program. I might ask just which parts of the NCLB is it you object to if any? As a side note I can show you a lot of good schools that also have many bad parents. Parents certainly must take a share of the blame in our education problems but it is unfair to lay it all on them or even the most blame. In my opinion, a school is going to be only as good as the officials that run them.

*No Child Left Behind What It Means for Parents*

Many parents have probably heard of the No Child Left Behind Act. This law grabbed headlines when Congress passed it in 2002 because it requires major changes in public education. Yet despite all this publicity, parents may still have questions. What exactly does the law do? How will it affect my child and my child's school? How will I notice the changes?

Basically, the law sets new standards for students, teachers, and schools and boosts funding to help meet the new requirements. The most obvious change for parents is that your child will now be given standardized tests nearly every year. The previous law required far less frequent testing. The law also gives parents more information and, in some cases, more choice about which school your child attends. Here's a summary of what to expect.

*New Standards For Students*

Beginning in 2005, students in grades three through eight must be tested every year in math and English to ensure they're meeting state standards. Students in grades ten through twelve will be tested at least once. By 2007, states will begin testing students in science as well.

*For Teachers*

By the end of the 2005-2006 school year, your child's teachers must be "highly qualified" in the subjects they teach. States will determine what skills teachers must have to be considered "highly qualified," but the requirements could include a degree in the subject they teach or extra training.
For Schools

Each year, schools must increase the number of students who achieve state standards. At the end of 12 years, all students should be able to pass the tests. Schools that fail to achieve this progress will be targeted for improvements that could include increased funding or staff and curriculum changes.

*More Information for Parents About Students*

Yearly tests will let parents know on a more frequent basis whether your child is meeting state standards. The new law also requires school districts to provide parents with an annual "report card" that shows how well students in each school performed. The information is broken out by race, ethnicity, gender, disability status, and other categories so you can tell how well each school is doing in educating minority students or those with disabilities.

*About Teachers*

States must provide annual report cards about teacher qualifications, including the percentage of classrooms in the state not taught by highly qualified teachers. Principals must also maintain information about whether or not a school's teachers meet the requirements. Parents can request this information from the school or the district office. Parents at schools that receive poverty funding may request specific information about the credentials of their child's classroom teachers.
About Schools

The law requires school districts to notify parents if your child's school has been identified as needing improvement because it failed to increase the number of students meeting state standards.
More Choice for Low-Income Parents

About half of all public schools receive poverty funding to help students from low-income families. If such a school is targeted for improvement and fails after two years, parents can choose to transfer their child to another school or enroll in free tutoring. Parents have this choice for as long as the school fails to adequately perform.

Low-income parents may also transfer their child if their school has been identified as "persistently dangerous." Schools may be considered dangerous if programs have failed to prevent violence or the illegal use of drugs or alcohol. Parents also are eligible for a transfer if their child has been a victim of a violent crime at school.

*Requirements for Parent Involvement*

The new education law requires schools to create opportunities for parents to get involved. Low-income schools must have written policies on how they will involve parents, and they must seek input from you on how to improve poor-performing schools.

The law also gives school officials flexibility. This means you can work with school boards, principals, and others to help design the best education program for your child.

For more information on the No Child Left Behind Act, visit the Department of Education's site, Choices for Parents.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

You probably can find bad parents in good schools but show me a bad student and a majority of the time I will show you a bad student and only in the most isolated case will you find a bad school.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Which part NCLB do I object too? The part the puts more and more government red tape on our school system to meet a standard that our state has always done well at and so we spend a bunch of money time and effort to prove to the bureacracy that we are doing a good job. Bureacracy, bureacracy, bureacracy. Let teachers teach and give the money to the classroom teacher and not use the money to wade through the bureacracy. All the money that they spend is going for administration of the bureacracy and not going to the classroom teacher to directly help students and their learning. We have spent millions if not billions on a bunch of bureacrats telling everyone else they are doing it all wrong and that money has been wasted on administration of the program and not in the classroom where the teachers and students happen to be. Teachers lack supplies for their classrooms, the physical plants are defecient and their salaries are at rock bottom and federal response is to spend a ton of money on the bureacracy of education. Dumb! Dumb! Dumb! NCLB, bureacracy at it's finest!! Geeze, it is a really great program! Thanks for sending me a copy! What part of it don't I like? What part of it don't you like? Let me guess? Your are a bureacrat!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Well Dj we agree on this one, the Republicans were supposedly going to eliminate the Dept of Ed. at the federal level and instead they turned it into a bigger beauracracy. Eliminate The Dept of ED. and return education back to the states where it belongs and where educators can be held accountable by local residents.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

It is both odd and sad that the only thing you cam come back with is to complain it is nothing more than a bureaucracy and still you fail to identify one single thing wrong with the plan. Then if that wasn't enough you make the assumption that I'm some sort of bureaucrat. Sorry sport but I'm just a concerned parent. I think this country has some of the finest teachers in the world but at the same time we have a few schools and teachers that want nothing but to exist and draw their pay and don't have the students welfare in mind. Granted these are probable very few but it only takes a few to screw up the entire system, especially when they get into the upper ranks. What's wrong with demanding the students reach a certain level in certain subjects? What's wrong in demanding the teachers be proficient in the subjects they teach? What is so costly that a school can't do the thing they should have been doing in the first place, that they must demand more funding? What is wrong in wanting your children to be better educated? I don't think anything is wrong with any of those goals and if it unfortunately took a bureaucracy to force some schools to return to the standards we had years ago then I say and again unfortunately, we need more of it. If the local government were doing the job then there would be no need for the federal government to step in. But, that is not happening is it. No, your excuse that it is just another bureaucracy is really no excuse at all.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

As much as I like the idea behind the no child left behind the idea itself presents some dangers. The reality is if we are to maintain excellence in education some children must be left behind. What I mean is this: If we maintain excellence and require high grades not "all children" are capable enough to keep up.

In the past we spent money on the gifted, but today the tables have turned. We are so concerned with those that have a difficult time learning that we have dumbed down America so that even the slowest of them can get passing grades. We can't all be doctors, attorney, or rocket scientists. It is admiral and we should give every child the chance to reach their potential, but we need not do it at the expense of a mediocre education for the gifted.

This attitude itself creates a second rate education system. We see this pitfall in many segments and policies now in practice in our society. This second rate education system along with government regulated hiring practices lead to a second rate work force, and a less competitive nation. We need to take care of everyone, but give the gifted a chance to reach their full potential. Compassion is admirable, but it should be kept in check by reality.

When these children go to work there is no shame in what type of job they have. Every working person should be respected. Perhaps this is one of the attitudes we as a society should project more often and more strongly.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Great post right on the money! :beer:


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

Each child that goes to school in the morning deserves a chance at education. I find that many of the school dist. don't do enough to educate teachers on how to help children and parent(s). Many of the school dist. in ND have a limited budget and simply can't afford every conference, workshop, or new tool that will help educators.

When you think about things in life it really just comes down to this for everything!

You'll Always Remember How Your Treated...

- Work
- Family
- Friends
- School
- Other hunters
- Etc...


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