# City dwellers need a dose of 'wildlife protection' medicine



## SiouxperDave25 (Oct 6, 2002)

:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandfork ... 398440.htm

MAILBAG: City dwellers need a dose of 'wildlife protection' medicine

STARKWEATHER, N.D. - "Congress passed a new law requiring that everyone in New York and California allow at least 10 mice and 20 cockroaches to live in their homes ... I am just kidding. Congress didn't really do that - but wouldn't it be fun, just for once, to let them know what it feels like to have other people dictate how to live?"

That's a quote from the South Dakota secretary of agriculture, Larry Gabriel. It prefaces this letter on property rights, production agriculture and quality of life in rural North Dakota.

This spring, North Dakota media alerted the public to a predator trapping program in Nelson, Towner, and Benson counties for the purpose of boosting waterfowl nesting success. The program has 10 sites of 23,000 acres each in North Dakota. It's being run by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Delta Waterfowl and the Max McGraw Wildlife Foundation of Dundee, Ill.

Since 1992, northeastern North Dakota has been in a wet cycle. That, in and of itself, would have boosted nesting success. Why do we need still more programs to boost waterfowl production? I would encourage the media to talk to the many farmers, including myself, who have experienced duck and goose depredation of our crops. Then, follow up with the groups working to boost nesting success and ask them how they plan to compensate the farmers affected.

I also would encourage landowners not to sign these trapping contracts.

Our quality of life depends on a balance of nature and profitable agriculture. Yes, hunting adds to our economy, but the employees, inputs and families that agriculture supports should take precedence over a waterfowl hunting sector that boosts the local economy for only a few weeks out of the year.

Deer collisions and deer depredation of our tree plantings, which also are caused in part by predator trapping, does not increase the quality of life for rural North Dakotans.

Rural residents know what happens when wildlife populations increase. I wonder what would happen if every homeowner in Grand Forks, Fargo, Minot and Bismarck were required to allow ducks and deer to reside in their yards. After all, these extra wildlife need homes.

Jim Berg


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## snowflake (Apr 2, 2004)

HEE-HEE-HEE-HEE-HEE-HEE-HEE ,kinda points the didgit at alot of folks on this forum doesn't it :-?  :eyeroll:    :thumb: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

It points to you Snowflake and all the others that believe they should prevent people from hunting the animals causing the depredation. If every field and slough in Ramsey county wasn't posted there would be alot less animals up there. I deer hunt around Starkweather and there is very little private land available much of it has outfitters names on the posters. Just another example of how you are hurting rural area's. Think about it Snowflake.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

I personally love the fact that there are organizations trapping predators so that ducks and geese have a higher success rate in their nesting.
Sure, more ducks and geese mean more depredation, but that gives you as a hunter anoither opportunity to form hunter-landowner relations, go outot the prairie RIGHT NOW now and offer to shoot birds off winrows and I gaurentee that you will gain access toi many acres of land.n Then both the landowners and the hunters are happy.

OH YEAH, I almost forgot, that would require you slbck's to actually get off your sofas and bar stools and do something outside of the hunting season to EARN access. Sorry, my mistake.

cootkiller


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Oh really we dont do ****? Who was combining ALL weekend. I was!


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

cootkiller said:


> OH YEAH, I almost forgot, that would require you slbck's to actually get off your sofas and bar stools and do something outside of the hunting season to EARN access. Sorry, my mistake.


Many do that Coot, they just may not knock on your door.


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## SiouxperDave25 (Oct 6, 2002)

I think most reasonable farmers realize that depridation is just a part of farming. Does anyone have any stats on how much damage ducks/geese cause? I can't believe it's a huge amount.


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

Coot....eat my shorts. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

super d....I have seen the damage a decent resident flock of canada's can make and it is quite significant. Ducks however i believe is minimal. And snow's are here at times when crops are not planted yet or have already been harvested.

So all in all I do believe it is minimal. Maybe if the early honker season was moved to august 15 it could be reduced even more.


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## jd mn/nd (Apr 8, 2004)

Four falls ago we could not hunt the first day we got there, after settling in to the house and get our gear ready for the next day. We went out scouting too see were the geese were feeding at we came across a barley feild that because of some late season rain had made it difficult for the farmer to harvest on time. Feild was not very large only 80 acres, in about 2 hours this flock of geese had wiped out about half of the feild. It was absolutly amazing to watch them!! The were like a kindergarten room full of kids in a candy store. We located the farmer who owned the field he said if we were not out there the next morning he would tell everyone in town NOT to let us hunt anyone elses land. Let me tell you we shot our limit of geese that morning, yes we used lots of shells as many of us did not seem to be having a great shot to kill ratio but it sure was fun. He let us hunt there the next 2 days before he finally got what was left of his barley out of the field. The farmer told us if we had not hunted in that field for those three days he would not have had any reason to even attempt to harvest the field and he did not have any crop insurance either. He welcomed us to hunt on his place any time we wanted. Yes those Sky Carp as the famer affectionatly refered to the geese as can and will wipe out a standing crop in no time flat. I personally have seen it happen.


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

You better watch yourself jd as that can be considered baiting.

Someone else may need to set us all straight on this, but if i remember right some non-residents bought some land in the area i am from for this purpose and got into trouble with the game and fish. They hired a farmer to plant barley and swath it, but didn't want it combined. The result....thousands of ducks and a good fine. I saw the field, but the fine is just what i heard second-hand. But they haven't done it since, so i think its true.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

I realize that many do Chris, and my hat goes off to those that do. Helping farmers combine and work the land is a great example of what I have always talked about and I applaud those of you that do do these types of things. That would remove a city dweller from the slbck category. However, there are many on here that still fit into that category as is evident by the reaction to what I said. Sometimes it is oh so hard for us to look into the mirror and much easier to point our fingers somewhere else.

cootkiller


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

Coot....That might work in a perfect world, but in reality many people work one or two jobs to get by. In a perfect world more than 2 kids in the rural community i grew in would have been able stay on the farm. In a perfect world many wouldn't be spending enough on day care to drive a mercede's around town. In a perfect world many parents wouldn't both have to work just to get by. In a perfect world many would be able to spend more time than just a few weeknights a week with their children. In a perfect world small grain prices would be higher. In a perfect world i would be able to scout without seeing 2-3 other vehicles watching the same flock i am. In a perfect world farmers and town citizens would get along better. In the old days farmers would smile and wave and not feel slighted like they do now if a guy is taking one of his rare days off to do a little hunting.

Sure some farmers, not all, would like to make relationships with people coming out to hunt. For most however, this is very difficult due to time constraints, farming knowledge, etc. When did hunting change from 1)a second source of food to 2) an enjoyable sport to do by yourself or family and freinds to 3)the i'll scratch your back if you scratch mine attitude.

For those of you who can get out and help farmers, great. I'm sure you'll have some great areas to hunt this fall. For the others, just make due with the time you have.

Farmers, if I am hunting on your field this fall please do not feel slighted. I know you expect more from residents hunters, but please be assured, most are as busy as you are. It's a shame society has turned so fast paced, but it is what it is, and if you don't keep up you will be left behind.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Fishhook,

Have to disagree with you. If you don't have the time in your
"perfect world", than how do you have the time to hunt?


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

If i do have time to go out to a farm to help I will be at my in-laws.

I'm not trying to stir the pot, just trying to let you see through the average hunters eyes. I get out to hunt in the fall maybe once a week. I'm not near the hunter some of you guys are on this board that is for sure. I'm not gonna claim to be either. It's priority and mine lies with my family. If i didn't spend time with my kids nor try to provide them a good childhood I probably would have money and time to do more hunting. But it's all good, I wouldn't have it any other way.

I just don't feel it's ok for some to look down on me because i'm not out there helping them with farm work or whatever. I enjoy hunting for what it is.....spending time in the outdoors and when possible (normally i hunt alone which as i get older is starting to suck) have some laughs with family and friends.

I'm sure many will think i'm a lazy couch potatoe, but that's fine with me. You don't know me. Just don't judge anyone, i don't care who it is, until you know his or her story.

I have learned a lot about hunting on this board. And some of the topics are very interesting, but the most disturbing thing i have learned is the gap between farmers and non-farmers. It is not what i remember when i was living rural.......to me it is sad :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Fishhook,

How many hunters, both resident and NRs will ride the fence
on your last two threads. Just curious, if it is all talk on the
website or some people are going the exta mile for farmers/
landowners.

What do others believe. My personal feeling is very few
actual even ask for permission.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I think your dead wrong PSDC. At least amongst myself and the group I hunt with. We always ask permission to hunt. Takes care of lots of problems before they start. I always try to give something to the farmer or help them in some way. Good relations always go a long way.


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

Gandergrinder....Where do you get your land-atlas to find these people? I am guessing that is how you find the landowners. Most often finding the landowner can be a tedious task and the atlas's i have seen are very pricey.

I still do think a simple thank you and a handshake should go a long ways. I help out with special olympics and various things at my church, etc. Never once have i expected a penny. Totally different subject, but it just shows how times have changed.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

GG,

As I stated, in general, how many hunters even ask for
permission?


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

How do you answer that, when one farmer will tell you everyone has always asked for permission, and his neighbor will tell you just the opposite.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

> As I stated, in general, how many hunters even ask for
> permission


PSDC, I think a lot more than you might believe. Given the current amount of posted land, if you do any amount of hunting throughout the season and aren't a perpetual tresspasser or hunt exclusively public ground (most aren't and don't), you ask, early and often.

Asking doesn't bother me and I enjoy it, other than during harvest when I know I'm much more likely to be an understandable bother. The absolute worst thing that can happen is to hear "no." Not so bad - didn't loose my birthday, my dog or my truck, just "no." More often than not, it's "yes."

Probably the scarriest thing about the whole deal is figuring out whether the farm dogs are going to lick you or take a chunk out of your hinder. :wink:


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> Probably the scarriest thing about the whole deal is figuring out whether the farm dogs are going to lick you or take a chunk out of your hinder.


Oh I hear ya there!!! :lol: My dad last year pulled an old sneaky on my buddy and me and pretended his shoes were untied whenever he didn't want to get out. We let him have it after we figured out his little scheme.  Some of those farm houses too.  Talk about spooky. :roll:


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

PSDC
Weather I hunt solo or with my buddies we have agreed many years ago to a simple philosophy

1. Always ask for permission
2. if it is not posted find out who owns it and still ask for permission
3. if it is not posted and you can not find who the owner is we do not hunt it.
4. always share your your game, this requires a stop back when you are done hunting. (never hand the landowner a bird that has not been cleaned)
5. always send a thank you card. I usually slip a gift certificate of some kind in with it.

It has worked well for me for as long as I have been hunting 40+ years.

There is no trick to asking for permission, be polite, be honest, and always offer a hand shake weather the answer is yes or no. Those that are apprehensive about asking for permission need to get over the fear of the word NO, and a big box of dog biscuits or pigs ears go a long way with the farm yard dogs!

Have a good one!


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Goodmorning Bob:

I hunt exclusively with family and friends on their land.
In the last 5 years we have seen an influx of both resident
and NR hunters.

The interesting thing about the influx were we hunt, very,
very few ask for permission. The hunters we have bumped
into were both resident, locals and NRs. Most are ethical
when they see another group in the same field and leave.

Actually, the only problem we have encounter is with some
of the locals that feel that it is their God given right to be
in that field, on that particular day.

It is almost comical when they attempt to kick out the group,
than the owner walks over and ask either join us, or please
leave my land.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Always make an attempt to ask. That being said, it is sometimes impossible. I have not hunted land without permission for many years even though we could have. On the dog subject, we stopped at a farmstead across the road from the last field we hunted in Saskatchewan last year and afriend of mine and I got out with a few LARGE dogs around. They were actually very friendly and one in particular was a great looking dog. We asked to hunt and they weren't the land owners but they pointed us in that direction. As we were leaving we asked what kind of dog the big one was and it was 2/3 wolf!!   Might not have been so quick to get out of the truck had I known that sooner!!


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

How do I find landowners? I start asking the people who live in the nearest farm house. I've had more people get out the phone book and find the number of the landowner for me than you can imagine. Alot of times it takes two or three places before I figure out who owns the land and sometimes it takes untill that night to track them down.

Alot of times we have waited in the farm yard for the farmer to return because the wife has stated that she thinks its ok but wants us to speak to her husband.

I like it most of the time when I find a posted field. Then it is much easier to track the farmer down and you don't have to worry about someone else trying to set up next to you in the morning.

We have purchased some plat books but I have a few friends who are agronomists and I work on land value research everyday so I talk to tax directors and can usually get the year old copies from them.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

PDCS,
Rememeber, according to the law in ND hunters DON"T have to ask permission if its not posted. I think more and more hunters are asking for permission these days but some don't. It sounds like your relatives just want to know who is hunting the land and that they will grant permission...good....maybe just a posting sign or two at the gates might be appropriate instead of the trouble in the morning...which from personal experience is never fun.

I remember hunting my father-in-laws land for pheasants on a MN deer huntng opener. The adjacent landowners sons, and there are about 10 of them, (good german catholic family) have always had exclusive permission to hunt my in-laws 5000 acres of land for deer season. (My father-in-law and his sons never hunted the deer, ducks and pheasants - just not an activity that makes any money) Anyway to make a long story short, upon exiting a nice marshy section, one of them tears into me along with others, actually telling me it's there land I'm hunting with about every swear word I've ever heard and some I've never heard before. About a couple of minutes into this the local brother who has met me before drives up, jumps out of the car and quiets the situation down.....these other guys had shotguns in their hands and I was getting a little nervous. The local bro has a little talk and apologizes for about 10 minutes...I could have gotten the whole lot of them banned from ever hunting the land again but settled for free drinks the next two night at the local VFW on their suggestion, not mine. The point being that most situations can be handled with a little explaination and or a posting sign.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Good Morning back at ya!

I do know what you mean about the "god given right to hunt" guys that you mentioned. they simply don't understand how much they hurt freelance hunters with their attitude. Maybe if the people are locals you could put their names on the no huntings signs

NO HUNTING WITHOUT PERMISSION AND THAT INCLUDES YOU FRED!

  
Sorry if anyone out there has the first name Fred.

Have a good one!


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Hey, I have a great uncle named Fred and a good friend named Fred!

LOL, anyway do you know what you call a guy in a lake with no arms and no legs.......


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

No what?


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

No what?


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

BOB. :lol:


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Field Hunter,

Most of the private land we hunted in the past has NEVER been
posted. Well guess what, that unfortunately is going to change
this coming season.

I have the honor next week to help post approximately
10,000 acres. This is mainly due to the pheasant boom.

The bad thing, many of the land owners we hunt with, decide
no one will hunt their land, unless they are with us or the
owner themselves.

This relationship all started when the largest landowner's
son got his first goose hunting with us.


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## jd mn/nd (Apr 8, 2004)

Fishhook 
It is not considered baiting unless you have backed up the gravity box and dumped it on the ground!! The ND law reads you MUST seek the landowners permission to hunt in or on a standing crop. What we did at the time benefited both the farmer and us everyone was happy!! We simply protected thousands of dollars of crop that the farmer would have been out, it would have been a 100% loss and no way to recoupe any of his losses. We did read the laws about baiting and it did not state that a standing crop was considered baiting, because then when you are deer hunting, sitting on a hay field waiting to shoot your deer would also be considered baiting and every deer hunter at one time or another has sat on a hay field!!


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## nilsmaster (Sep 26, 2003)

Been a bad habit of just entering land not posted. Today, I try to ask no matter what. This year, everything will be asked in advance. A New Year's reslolution and by gosh I'm going to make one of them resolutions finally come true.

When asking permission just be yourself. If you are a prick and try to hide it with a cute smile you will be seen a mile away. Even if you are a prick the landowner will probably let you hunt just because you are being honest. If you are a nice person with some brains upstairs you will probably get on. Lastly, if you pull up in the owners yard with an extended cab pickup with a piss on ford sticker, metallica blasting, and racking off your stupid pipes chances are you should maybe just keep driving. Anyways, humor and seriousness both just be yourself.

It's like an interview. The person across from you is not an idiot.


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## Ryan_Todd (Apr 11, 2004)

good post nils.


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## jd mn/nd (Apr 8, 2004)

Hey fishhook read #19 titled federal regulation in the rules it clearly states that a hunter may hunt over a standing crop that has been flooded however you are not allowed to scatter the grain for the purposes of baiting. It is spelled out very clearly about what is allowed and what is not. The next time you tell someone that they have a committed an illegal act you better be sure of the exact law and how it reads. Funny how a NR new the law for ND better than a resident.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Ok, heres my two cents...or more.

I think one of the most important parts that is missing in this discussion is geographical location. Coot has one area, Nils is in another, and GG is all over the place. I am a relatively new comer to ND, by way of several different states and countries, and in the seven years I have been here I spent the first two in Fargo, then two in Dickinson, and the rest here back in Fargo.

Region means a lot when asking permission, I know this for a fact!

Anywhere around a 50 miles radius of Fargo you are basically screwed when asking unless you are in the local 'click' that only a bloodline can penetrate. CRP/PLOTS are blasted away by a rotating gate that looks more like an amusement ride line letting only so many people at a time in and the rest have to wait their turn.

Around Dickinson for about a 75 miles radius you are booffed too. Come on, pheasant capital of the world. Mott, Hettinger. You either have a bunch of buddies that you all have bought up some land for hunting, contact one of *'those'* types to pay for hunting, or again; get in the blood line. I lucked out and married a great gal who's brother is one of the afore mentioned groups so I've got an 'in' there.

These are the only two areas I know of personally that I can speak about. It depends how much pressure has already been put on local landowners from people asking. Most of us have kids. How do we get when they keep asking for something over and over? Now I have four kids so take that times four. I bet you local landowners get asked 100's of times each year around these areas.

That is why I try to build relationships on this web site. There are people that can relate and understand and sometimes let a fellow hunter in on some locations. Hell, I'd drive 100 miles one way to get in on some of this goose hunting I hear about! Double hell, I'd even buy the drinks of choice for the operation! I've wanted to go goose hunting so badly I've considered doing the 'nasty' to do it!

I've learned to accept the undesirable spots for duck hunting out at Big Bertha by Alice. Me and three or four hundred other folks are getting there at 0330 to set-up in the 'good' spots before the other guys. Just to have someone show up in their monster mudder with two untrained dogs at 0730 and start setting up 50 meters from me while they are exclaiming about all the ducks that are veering off! (Sorry, another story there.)

All I am saying is that location is a very large portion of this equation. And if you want a tag-along and free drinks of choice on your next duck/goose/pheasant/whatever hunt, PM ME PLEASE!


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Hey Rude,

Do I got the place for you. Go to North Central SD. If you
are willing to trade the "nasty" the Hutarites will let you hunt
all their land and fill your trunk full of capons.


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

fishhook said:


> You better watch yourself jd as that can be considered baiting.
> 
> Someone else may need to set us all straight on this, but if i remember right some non-residents bought some land in the area i am from for this purpose and got into trouble with the game and fish. They hired a farmer to plant barley and swath it, but didn't want it combined. The result....thousands of ducks and a good fine. I saw the field, but the fine is just what i heard second-hand. But they haven't done it since, so i think its true.


DOES THAT SOUND LIKE ACCUSING.....jd you need to chill. I didn't know the law....thats why i asked for advice. We are not all legal experts like yourself


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

I've always understood the baiting standard is when something goes beyond "customary farming practices". Pretty broad and gray, and I know people have been nailed for "baiting" when hunting fields of wind-rowed grain, even with the permission of the landowner, and others have claimed that's not baiting. Don't know whether this has been clarified. Any G men out there who can give some insight?


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

Dan that is what i thought too....i just don't know either way.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I was in the USFWS in Bismark doing some work the other day so I picked up a reg and hear is what it reads right from the book.

"If, for whatever reason, an agricultural crop or a portion of an agricultural crop has not been harvested (i.e., equipment failure, weather, insect infestation, disease etc.) and the crop or remaining portion of the crop has been manipulated, then the area is a baited area and cannot be hunted for waterfowl."

"Although you can hunt waterfowl over natural vegetation that has been manipulated, you cannot hunt waterfowl over any manupulations of agricultural crops that occur before harvest and removal of grain."

Interpret as you will.


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## jd mn/nd (Apr 8, 2004)

To whom it may concern: This is verbatum out of the 2003 ND waterfowl regs.item number 19 reads as qouted Restrictions. No one shall take migratory game birds by the aid of baiting, or on or over any baited area, where a person knows or reasonably should know the the area is baited. You may hunt migratory game birds, including waterfowl, on,over, or from standing crops or flooded standing crops; flooded, harvested cropland; lands where grain has been scattered solely as a result of a normal agricultural planting, harvest or post-harvest manipulation; or from a blind or place of concealment camoflaged with vegetation from argricultural crops, provided that use of such vegetation does not expose, deposite or scatter grain or other feed.

according to the postings on discovernd.com the 2004 regs should not read any differently and again this a federal regulation not a state.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

I would read GG's and jd's post to say windrows are off limits. They are neither standing nor harvested, but instead manipulated. The UsFWS offering by GG is more directly on point than the other. Don't you just love this stuff. G men, where are you?


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Wasn't baiting a big issue a couple years ago? A lot of ND fields had terrible rust problems, poor weather, so many fields were burned instead of harvested? Grain was spread far and wide. Folks were hunting these, but there was some confusion about whether this was baiting or not.

The US attourney actually put out a press release saying that this was baiting, but that prosecution would not be pursued - or something like that? I remember a judge telling me that this "flexibility" might change because a new guy (non-hunter) was coming in.

This was part of the mid-late season banter on the web - but I couldn't find it in the archives here. Perhaps it was pre-2001?. Surely some of you folks with camo-colored blood remember this far better than I.

****
GG



> I always try to give something to the farmer ...


To help you put a name on it, that something is called respect. That is the commodity in most human exchanges.

M.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Why can't they just say windrows are off limits? Manipulating was called swathing when i was a kid! we went swathing not manipulating 

I am going to call some home tonight and ask if they have manipulated any crops out there yet. I fully expect them to hang up the phone on me 

Seriously though I have always been under the impression that windrows were off limits.

Have a good one!


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## jd mn/nd (Apr 8, 2004)

Just a quick question how long are the wind rows left to dry in the fields? my understanding is usually just a couple of days, right? Also what if the farmer has harvested the grain and left windrows hence no crop would this not be a completed harvest, right? And just to make myself clear on the whole subject I did state earlier that the barley field was standing once the farmer came in we left the field as we did not see a safe way to hunt while he was combineing the field, he was in a hurry to harvest as he felt he his losses were already fairly significant.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

> how long are the wind rows left to dry in the fields? my understanding is usually just a couple of days, right?


As long as it takes to dry the grain to an acceptable level, as long as the farm program/ins. requires it to remain in order to be deemed unharvestable or until it actually becomes unharvestable.



> Also what if the farmer has harvested the grain and left windrows hence no crop would this not be a completed harvest, right?


Once through the combine, don't think anyone refers to them as windrows any longer. If the chaff is not broadcast but instead concentrated, this is so the straw can later be bailed. In any event "agricultural crop has not been harvested" and "manupulations of agricultural crops that occur before harvest and removal of grain" no longer apply. The grain has been harvested and removed at that point.



> And just to make myself clear on the whole subject I did state earlier that the barley field was standing.


Learn/hear of something new every day. Can't say as I've ever seen waterfowl landing/feeding in a standing grain field, with the exception of the flooded areas in really wet Falls. Man, is flooded corn fun to hunt.


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

Just a little story about how complicated this can get.

One of the new features of theWorking Lands Program is that if people are willing to put in food plots we give them bonus points in the evaluation process. In several instances these food plots are best targeted towards waterfowl for many reasons. So how do you handle them???

Wouldn't it be great to swath them and leave those swaths lay?? Let the upland birds get into them through the fall and maybe into the winter??? Or maybe buck them up into piles reminiscent of old time hay stacks?? That would be great!!! Cant you see the roosters diggin down through the crust of snow and into the stacks??? One producer even wanted to go out and just bush hog the whole thing after it was ripe to really draw the geese in.

But what about baiting?

After about 3 hours on the phone with the federal wardens, we learned that there is nothing that can be done to make allowances around crops. Thus our only options for managing waterfowl food plots are to leave them standing and undisturbed. And even this is a little hairy for hunters as you are allowed to hunt in them, but if you do anything to intentionally scatter grain above and beyond normal hunting practices, you will be baiting. So, you can lay in the field, but what if you pull up straw to brush your blind??? What about dogs running around loose??? Shuffling your feet as you walk to pick up a bird?

We are trying it on about 5 areas this year, but the feds are going to be watching them closely as well.

It will be interesting to see what happens.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

You don't have to worry about any of this stuff with upland game do you??


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Nope, just the "unharvested crops" stuff as relates to the trespass law.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Thanks


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

jd mn/nd....the barley field behind my house was swathed on Tuesday....he is combining it right now.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Tom thanks for the info! The Feb baiting laws drive me nuts. You can plant corn or other crops and flood it hunt it and not have a issue, yet try and do something for all wildlife like the G&F is doing and lo and behold they create a sticky issue for the use of the land.

Thanks again for your efforts and others in the Dept. Many time we forget that most of you guys and gals are just like us. We want what is best for the wildlife, but we continue to shoot the messenger instead of the person sending the message!


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