# Trump wins



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Well it will be interesting to see if he follows through on all the things he said he would do. This will be a huge change in our country if he does.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I hope he does what he says. I hope he doesn't compromise to far. This morning I feel like we just stepped back from the brink of certain destruction.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

Jobs to be had.
Building a wall in Texas.
On a boat stopping all imports from china until they pay a huge import tax.
Rounding up all Illegal's
Jobs such as doctors for VA hospitals and clinics, the forgotten will not be forgotten
Jobs to figure what country's will get aid from Americans now. 
Jobs building roads and bridges
Jobs teaching at affordable colleges and unv's. 
Jobs revaluating your student loan debt.
Jobs rebuilding American factory's for the jobs coming back to America 
Jobs closing abortion clinics too.

Ya Life is good now and getting better for 4 more years. Then we will get a totally new crop of same O same politions.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I forgot to list the job of clean out all the warehouses where all the rim fire ammo has been stocked, along with all the missing gun powder and primers.
Prices should go down when that stuff gluts the market.

 Al


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I want to be the first to admit I was wrong. NEVER thought he could do it. NEVER thought he would be allowed to do it. I will admit; however, I sat in the booth after voting on everything else for 10 minutes. In the end I did what I said I wouldn't do. I colored in the box by his name. I thought about the Supreme Court and all the government overreach and bit my lip, held my nose and did it. I hope he proves me wrong again and turns this country around. I wonder how many people, like me made their decision while actually voting, making liars of themselves.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Imagine how big his victory might have been without the attempted "fix"............... :rollin: :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is the sad part....

Look at the riots/protests in CA after they announced his victory. That is what is how some of the voting Dems will keep acting.

Also I was watching MSNBC late last night. They had a panel on after Hilary gave up. One guy on there kept saying.... "the racist white male vote is what got trump elected" OMG.... if this is how people in the media will portrait what the voting demographic that got him elected.... our world is in trouble. those people need to be off camera ASAP.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Ammo should gomdown, gun prices as well. Firearm Mfg stocks will not be the hot buy.

The win by Trump is a huge cultural shift in some areas and a continuation in others.I also voted Trump but really not about him, more against her and everything Obama.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Yup.. The media is portraying every male that voted against Hillary as racist and misogynist. They cant seem to accept that conservatives have a brain and voted against her because she is a corrupt liar NOT because she is a woman.

FWIW it isn't the conservative women that are on Jerry Springer with 4 kids from 3 baby daddys.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes, I voted more against Hillary than for Trump. That said I am very encouraged with his attitude after winning. It appears the man is capable of being gracious. His agenda for his first hundred days is wonderful. I am guardadly optimistic.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is my thing....

The way it sounds he is going to get people in his cabinet that are CEO's and not career politicians. Which could be a good thing to help the economy and promote jobs. It could also help (or hurt) tax codes. What I mean by hurt.... good old boy system for the 1% gets even more benefits.

But we do all have to remember no matter what he "wants" to do most of it will have to pass thru congress. I think Pence will play a big role. More so than any other VP we have had in many years.

Plainsman is correct.... he is being very gracious in his victory. More so than I am sure anyone would have thought.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

dakotashooter2 said:


> Yup.. The media is portraying every male that voted against Hillary as racist and misogynist. They cant seem to accept that conservatives have a brain and voted against her because she is a corrupt liar NOT because she is a woman.
> 
> FWIW it isn't the conservative women that are on Jerry Springer with 4 kids from 3 baby daddys.


I watched CNN last night. They had by far the best coverage. Unlike all the others they did not have a panel. They broke down each state by counties and how the vote was going in each county. Including % that was counted and left in each county. Also how each county compared to the 2008 and 2012 elections and who won them as compared to who was winning them last night.. Where Trump and Clinton were the weakest and strongest.

You are saying the election was not racist. It was exactly that. It was also big cities vs rural. Clinton carried almost all the inner big cities to varying degrees and Trump carried the country side. Big cities = minorities....not white. The outstate = mainly white voters. Working class whites voted overwhelming for Trump. To me this sure looked like a racist election. Not saying this was bad.....it was also outsiders vs the establishment.

I am looking forward to him doing the things he said he would do. Changes need to be made. I heard an interesting comment made that this was a revolution without guns.

Also interesting is that the DOW is up over 200 points right now. Also as has happened before.....as of 92 % of the vote in...Clinton looks like she will win the popular total vote. But that doesn't mean a thing except in state and local elections.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Ken I agree race played a role, however that role was established over 60 years of Dem pandering and promises of handouts. Thus inner cities have become predominately black or minorities. Couple that with self segregation on choosing to live with people of like race and ethnic backgrounds. Thus you have Latino, Asian communities that are self segregating and these tend to be in the urban areas.

Not many came here and picked up farming or moved to small communities that had limited job opportunities and services. LLS isn't settling refugees in Gackle ND, they are in Fargo or other larger communities. So while it may appear racism is the driver it is much more about the settling in areas of greater opportunity and self segregation in choosing where they live in urban areaa.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Ron....you are right. We can see that here in Fargo vs the countryside. We can also see that here when the districts that are majority native American voted for Clinton. Like I said above.....this was a racist election. The big question for the future is that minorities are growing and Caucasian numbers are shrinking.

This was an election for change. It seems a lot of people voted for him even though they really don't like him or the things he has done.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Oh I am not saying that when you break down "race" that certain vote more one direction than the other.

What I was getting at is that they called "the white racist males"..... so they are saying white males are racist!!!

Yet when the past two elections you could say the black race voted for Obama.... yet you didn't see anyone report "the black racist males". You see how they are dividing the country!!!

that was my point.

they could have just said.... white male votes.... etc. didn't have to use the word "racist".

Plus breaking down votes like that and putting them out there.... is that helping unite or divide out country??


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I guess that was the point I was trying to make. Because Trump is seen as racist and we endorsed him they have declared that we are also all racist.

I'm actually seeing posts on the social media that some liberals are literally afraid for their lives and are seeking out counseling. Talk about absurd. Its a good thing they legalized pot for medicinal use in my state because these people are gonna need it for their post election PTS. Is this is our future? A nation of weak crybabies that have to have their hands held at every adversity?


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

dakotashooter2 said:


> I guess that was the point I was trying to make. Because Trump is seen as racist and we endorsed him they have declared that we are also all racist.
> 
> I'm actually seeing posts on the social media that some liberals are literally afraid for their lives and are seeking out counseling. Talk about absurd. Its a good thing they legalized pot for medicinal use in my state because these people are gonna need it for their post election PTS. Is this is our future? A nation of weak crybabies that have to have their hands held at every adversity?


Yup!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I for one, didn't vote FOR Trump, but AGAINST Hillary! I had a tough time trying to figure out 2which candidate I hated more, and which cNDIDte might do the least Hearn to the country.
At any rate, the people have voted. Might makes right, despite the Electoral College. Thinking about it, this is the second time in recent times that a R President got in yet lost the popular vote. 
One thing for sure3. With R's having clear control of the House and Senate and Presidency, they have zero e3xcuse for not "making the country great" ad nausdeum. As long as Trump doesnt take the bit in his teeth and do something stupid! At least he cant say the Senate and House are obstructionists. No exc uses, Donald!!


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## 9manfan (Oct 22, 2008)

I voted Trump because Hildabeast is a crook, and the biggest victory in this election will be the new CONSERVATIVE Supreme Court nominee.......if she would of got in and added another liberal to the Supreme Court we would of been screwed for many years......


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HH...

You are 100% correct. Lets hope that they (elected officials) now can get something done. But I hate that people think they have to vote on party lines.

I have said it over and over. Not matter what political party you are affiliated with you have only about 40% of the nation with the same ideals..... you still have to govern for the better of the other 60%!! So don't just vote on party lines. Vote on what is good for a nation. It isn't an US vs THEM thing..... it is make good for our nation as a whole.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Chuck, I wonder what Trump will replace Obamacare with? Ive never seen any details. As you know, Ive long been critical of Obamacare simply making everyone gert insurance. Does nothing to control COSTS! I wonder if Trump has a better idea for replacement, or will he just leave those millions of people out there currently covered via Obamacare high and dry?!? It'll be interesting.........
And nothing said about Cuba. Scuba diving Cuba has long been on my bucket list! LOL. Wonder if Trump will try to push back the clock to 1963? 
And Trump worries me a bit, being so anti science on a lot of stuff, where IMHO he should at least trey to be objective and operen minded. 
I won't worry about it....Im going Bambi's grandpa hunting.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

It's too bad they don't have a voting option which says "neither candidate is acceptable" that deducts a vote from both candidates. I think a lot of what Trump said was "trash talk" intended to illicit a response. I doubt we will literally build a wall but I think we may finally see increased enforcement. If we can deploy our national guard overseas why cant we deploy them to our southern border a couple times a year to defend it. I'm not too worried about Trump starting a war. I think he is smarter than that but I think it was a response to let us know that he will not let this country get pushed around. Women are up in arms about what he has said about women but again I think that was a lot of locker room talk which generally doesn't have a whole lot of substance.

Honestly the only place racism seems to be predominant is in the big cities. Outside of those hotspots blacks and whites seem to get along pretty well and are very tolerant of each other. Maybe it isn't racism at all but just to many people packed into too small an area. The way some liberals are talking you would swear that Trump is going to pass a law to make rape legal and revoke the 19th amendment. And they say gun owners are paranoid !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe the Dems have learned their lesson and next time around will pick a better candidate.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Habitat Hugger said:


> Chuck, I wonder what Trump will replace Obamacare with? Ive never seen any details. As you know, Ive long been critical of Obamacare simply making everyone gert insurance. Does nothing to control COSTS! I wonder if Trump has a better idea for replacement, or will he just leave those millions of people out there currently covered via Obamacare high and dry?!? It'll be interesting.........


The problem with Obamacare is that it fails to cover what people need most ....basic care. High premiums and deductibles mean that many users get no benefit from it until their problems are in an advanced stage, that probably could have been resolved with basic care.. After paying premiums many people cant afford to pay the deductible to get those services so they don't. In pre-Obama health care many people I've talked to had deductible was set up on a 20/80 schedule so their insurance deductible only required partial payment from the first use to the last. Now many have to meet their full deductible before insurance will pay a dime. If their average, annual medical cost for basic care is $2000 a year, their Insurance now covers none of that. So not only has their premium increased but they pay more out of pocket initially. Pre -Obamacare my ex was responsible for about $2500 in premiums but recouped all but about $500 of that in services. Now she pays $2500 in premiums and has to pay about $2500 in deductible before insurance pays anything. Basically $4500 out of pocket for $2000 worth of services. Obamacare is basically set up as catastrophic loss insurance.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

With the affordable health care system gone, I worry about my brothers health and fincally future. He is a diabetic to start with with out the AHCS he has a preigesting condition and could not get affordable health insurance. Had cancer of the throat no insurance so owes, hospitals and doctors several thousands. AHCS came along and he could get insurance and good thing. Cancer of the liver last spring, health insurance covered that one but the first he will die and still be paying for.

*For the people by the people *has failed 5 time total really.

 Al


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Deleted by zogman.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Wow zogman. You encapsulated my feelings on this matter very succinctly. What a matter of fact post!!! Kudos.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes, good post Zogman.

Not wanting Mexicans and people from South America coming across illegally has nothing to do with race. I wouldn't want them if they were lily white, blond haired, blue eyed Norwegians. I don't even think about race.

We have lost the culture of the past because of tolerance. Tolerance has erased the peer pressure we once knew. However, Zogman is right about the left being the most intolerant. Our peer pressure we once knew has been destroyed by tolerance, but it has been replaced by an intolerant peer pressure from the left. We were dumb enough to let it happen. At last in Trump we have someone to push back. It's time to speak up when these intolerants attack with their name calling.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Zogman.......You think I fit that description?????

You don't know me.

You can't read.

I am a moderate Democrat who as I have said many times this fall agrees with a lot of what Trump wants to do. I however did not think he was the guy to do them. I didn't like Hillary either so I left the ballot for president empty. At least I tolerate views from both sides. Not like guys like you who always want it their way or no way.So go ahead crybaby :crybaby: :crybaby: and take your ball and go home. I guess I should know there will always be intolerable guys like you around.

Don't bother answering. You have made your viewpoints clear. This site seems to be nothing but a stage for the Tea Party far right . Plus it is basically dead since Chris has left. Not worth staying here. I was the first person to register here. At one time this site was number 2 in the country in waterfowl hunting sites behind the Refuge Forums.Now it's pretty much dead.

Like almost everyone who used to be here has already done, I'm leaving. With attitudes like this there is nothing other than the sports forum here to keep my interest. I have removed Nodak from my bookmarks. You guys can all enjoy your one sidedness with no other point of view. Talk about intolerant. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Sorry Ken, a couple of your sentences must have pushed my button. I do apologize and am deleting that post.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I guess I missed the part where Ken was bad mouthed. I guess I liked the rest of the post so much that I was distracted.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Newly discovered disorder,

Trump Acceptance Resistance Disorder (T.A.R.D.)  :laugh:


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Yeah, I must of missed that also. What I liked about post had nothing to do with any dis of ken w.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Does the Patriot Guard need more work? Maybe they could oversee protests for the police.................


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I didn't see Zogmans post. I was out in the outdoors hunting, like more people should do rather than regurgitate the same old, same old political stuff. 
Like it or not, Trump is in for the next 4 years, and has control of everything, house senate, supreme court, etc. The good news with this is that if he cant follow through on some of his promises, he'll have no excuses. And I w2ont have any excuses to buy more guns! LOL
We are all Americans, and though half the population disagrees. With Trump, thats what makes us a democratic republic. So no point insulting each other, or losing friends or calling names. It'll be an interesting next four years to say the least.
My biggest hang up with a Trump Supreme court is that he could make it too conservative, in a religious manner. We dont need a Christian Sharia any more thsn a muslim or Hindu Version of the same. 
Otherwise he deserves a chance to run with the bit in his teeth. I wish him good luck, though my personal Jury Pool is still out! 
I still w2ish both parties could have run a candidates with more decency, less crookedness,etc. Both are definitely the most unchristian people I could think of...


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

My biggest hang up on illegal border jumping is that we have two signs on our southern border. 1) KEEP OUT. 2)Cmon over and we'll give you low paying jobs though better than you can find in your own country!

Until we remove one of these signs, the Jobs Available one, all the expensive stupidity that politicians keep insulting us with (SECURE THE BORDER NONSENSE) is an absolute waste off time and money. The illegals are crossing the border like baited deer, yet we complain when they stay and are untaxe3d and consume out own resources, like the same baited deer eating our flower beds, making us complain! Cant have it both ways! 
And yes, politicians like Trump is one of the huge group of baiters, everyone's lining their own pockets with cheap labor (no paperwork, work men's comp, FICA, etc to contend with). Yet yelling about the border jumping.
I spend every winter in Arizona, and the joke down there is that the existing border wall/fence was built by American Companies using ILLEGAL MEXICAN WORKERS. And now well get more of the same! It ****** me off to see my tax money wasted like that! And Im not afraid to show MY tax returns! Im honest and pay my taxes! 
Stop the deer baiting, AKA ILLEGAL HIRING, and they wont be there!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken,

Hate to see you go. I know our views are not eye to eye but it is good debate. Plus debate always opens up peoples eyes on situations. I mean I can learn from debate and make more informed decisions.

Now for Obamacare.....

I have said it over and over.... it did nothing to lower the costs of doing Healthcare. that is why premiums skyrocket. Now some of the good things is making sure people can get coverage for pre-existing conditions. This is a good thing. Then the government should offer that market or those people some subsidies to help pay for that premium. I would be all for that.... but don't give it to them for FREE.... because those are the people who are working and trying to thrive....not feed off the system.

What needs to be done is get rid of the mandate, get rid of the exchanges, etc. They can go back to the old way with some little modifications..... ie: keep the checks and balances....(80% of all premiums collected needs to pay for actual healthcare...not bonuses). That was a great stipulation. I also like that kids can stay on policies until 26 (or what ever). then they need to go after TORT REFORM and Regulations or "de-regulation" of Pharma.

Tort reform: What I mean is need to stop ambulance chasers going after Doctors and hospitals like they do. But again about 80% of legislators are lawyers and many made their mark doing this. So they will protect their own.

"de-regulation": It takes something like a billion dollars to bring a drug to market. With RD, USDA, etc. regulations it takes a lot of money for a drug to become available. So that is why the inflated prices and why a company can have a strangle hold on the market for years until the patent is up. So they can charge accordingly. Need to pave the way for generics and stuff. I am all for free enterprise and also the safety of the product...but something has to give.

That is what is killing insurance premiums. I have family members who are diabetic and other illnesses.... They have pills that cost them $300 a month.... that is $10 a pill... So that one pill they take is costing $3600 a year to an insurance company.... that is one pill out of 5 they take daily!!! My family member figured it out... just in pills he pays over $10,000 a year. Now throw in check ups, blood work that is needed, etc. He is costing over $15,000 a year.... and they are an average run of the mill diabetic.

Pharma is killing premiums.

Also people have to look at hospitals.... They keep getting bigger and bigger. they have more infra structure and more people on the pay roll.... so where do hospitals get their money.... by doing procedures.... who do they get paid by 90% of the time.... Insurance Companies. So our government needs to look at Hospital policies and procedures. I mean why cant lets say Hospital A take hospital B's test results and cure patient C in hospital A. Now they run the tests that hospital B just did....why... make MONEY!!!! and TORT REFORM!!!! They don't want to get sued. Also file sharing between hospitals..... even the same ones....ie: Mayo Clinic in Rochester had a hard time sending files to Mayo Clinic Florida.... so mayo clinic Florida would re-order tests....the same ones!!! Why again.... $$$$$ and TORT REFORM... fear of getting sued.

Anyways I just hit on a couple things that are wrong with the system.... but a lot is wrong with the system.

But lets just see what Trump can do..... you never know. The sky isn't falling like people think. Also if many want to flee this country..... GO and don't let the door hit you *** on the way out. Then when they want to come back or become a citizen of USA in 4 years.... make it so hard that they wish they never left. :bop:


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

My goodness Ken, dont go! I only hope we can get some more outdoor oriented topics on this side, with less political banter now that the election is over.
Chuck, you raise up some good points, but insurance premiums woukd be going up no matter if Obamacare was here or not, They were rising an average of 20% per year in the years BEFORE Obamacare was implemented! Its interesting. I have a lot of friends in my age group covered by Medicare. Most yelled and demanded Obamacare being scrapped, but every single one said over and over "No damned politician better not try to touch my medicare!! Keep government out of it! 
Medicare isnt perfect, but medicare is pretty well universally loved. Sure there are exceptions. But by and large works pretty well. Could be much better and cheaper if people woukd look after their own health better, but that's another topic. 
When you add up the millions covered with medicare, plus all the various military and government insurance plans, plus medicaid, you've got the lions share of people covered already. Before anyone calls me Liberal, Id like to predict that all these plans eventually be rolled together and ----OMIGOD---- a National Heralth Plan, like 99% of other 1st world countries. Not perfect, but then what is. Anything would improve on the disorganized totally uncontrolled hodgepodge we have now. Maybe or maybe not in my lifetime. But thats my prediction......
Call me a dratted Liberal, think about health care in other c ountries and do the unbiased research. And before we collectively pat ourselves on the back, compare our numbers with other countries. Perinatal mortality and morbidity, life expectancy, pretty every index of public health and longevity, etc. Sorry but we lag behind most other counties.....Never mind that we spend 10 times as much as the next civilized country for less than equivalent care. We do lead there!
And why is The Donald scratching his head right now trying to figure out how to cut off 20 million people currently covered by Obamacare? Leave em high and dry? Let em die3 or cover them with medicaid or me3dicare - same difference3 - it. Ones out of our hard earned tax money! real headache he for him and everyone in the know.
Oh well, why should I care - Ive got my Medicare - and dont let any politician try to change it to some government plain!!! LOL.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

HH I have heard that some countries don't consider a birth live until they are 72 hours old. America calls it a live birth if the child takes a breath. Since the first 72 hours are critical it makes it appear as if the United States has higher infant mortality.

I am jealous your getting so much hunting in, but your not up on the news. Trump says there will be no gap between repeal and implementation of a new plan. That's not hard to do. Simply don't repeal the one until the new one is passed and functional.

I'll have to admit people we know in Norway like their health care, but then they tell us what they think about what is happening over here and they must listen to some bad news outlets because they don't have a clue about the realiry.


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

All pales in comparison to his Supreme Court nominations.If he does it 'right' there,the country wins.Also can't wait for his first week to see what 'executive' orders he rolls back.Search the list of 'possibles' and U may be astounded.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

With all due respect, you are wrong again, Bruce. One small example - why do Canadians live a hair better than 4 years longer than us Americans? Yes, there are other reasons than health care being arguably better (accidents, auto, guns, etc.) but next Breitbard or some lookalike will say that Canadians wait for 4 years before they fail out a death certificate! LOL. Rationalize all you want, but it doesn't change the facts. We have good heralth care here, but it could be made much better. We could catch up to most other 1st world countries, and some third world countries too. Obamacare didn't work very well, but we could learn from many other countries ehat works and what doesnt work. 
The best place in the world to have a baby when I retired 13 years ago was the Province of Quebec. Interestingly Cuba wasn't far behind, but ahead of us. And both these countries are pulling away from us, as is most of Europe. Our high standard health care contains a lot of gee whiz space age stuff that helps only a small percentage of ill people. Basic prevention is sadly lacking, and now the anti science of the Republicans will probably make things worse. That worries me!
As I am typing this I am sitting visiting in a hospital. We spend billions on carpeted floors, nice pictures on the wall, steak dinners for anyone who has a baby, live in for relatives , massive3 duplication of expensive services, billions prolonging death not life, and on and on. Its sure not all bad, but your 72 hour quote has been shown as nonsense. But if its on the internet it must be correct! LOL. Or on Rush Limbaugh. Hah!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Hey, Im watching the 52 inch patient's room TV screen (important to make him/her get better quicker - Hah) and I see there's lousy weather coming by this weekend. Snow for a change. Hooray!
I hate to admit it but I completely missed two standing broadside bucks this last weekend, each one under 100 yards. My Bad....Maybe redeem myself this week.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Snow for a change. Hooray!


 I am hoping the pipeline protesters get about two feet along with a 60mph wind.



> With all due respect, you are wrong again, Bruce.


 I should have phrased that different because it was more of a question. I keep hearing these things your talking about, then know Canadians who come down here for health care. In Mayo they fly in from around the world for health care. I can't make the two stories compatible. What's with that?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HH...

A couple things that wont make universal care work in the USA....

1. We as a society are impatient.... Our culture/society wants things down now. In many of those countries you mentioned people have to wait for services or travel a long distance to get them. Like I have mentioned before: I know of people in Canada who had to wait 14 months to get prostrate cancer surgery. I know guys in the USA that got it done in less than 3 months. None of them had an aggressive cancer and were monitored through out their wait times. The guy in Canada had to travel from Saskatoon to Prince George for his treatment. How do you think people in the USA feel about this?? Some find it too difficult to travel 20 miles for a product and have to sit in line for 5 mins to check out before they blow their top.

2. TAXES....TAXES....TAXES...: What I mean is if we move to a "single payor" system or a government run system.... who will pay for all the wages of people in hospitals??? We will.... and what will that do to your taxes??? So peoples take home wages will go down. Taxes of all sorts will go up. Or how else will it get paid for????

I truly feel that all the democrats voted for Obamacare for two reasons.... 1. If it worked they would be touted as "hero's".... 2. If it didn't work it opens the door for universal care or a single payor system. Because like you just said.... what will trump do to the 20 million on Obamacare???? Again I will still say how bad was the United States People lied too.... remember 50 million, 40 million, 30 million.... all these numbers the democrats stated would be saved by the ACA... yet we are only at roughly 20 million.... So we were lied too about numbers. Plus of those 20 million how many had to go their because of getting cut from previous plans??? So we are looking at roughly 10-15 million or less that the ACA saved...... uke: But I wont keep beating a dead horse.

I think revamping of sort or taking the good things in the ACA... yes there are good things in that bill.... then add in
- tort reform 
- more checks and balances with hospitals
- help with either costs or cut down on big Pharma having a strangle hold for so long. 
- Open the door for genartics or let companies piggy back off other companies R & D testing to help move forward with new and cheaper drugs and devices.
- Make a universal Infra structure file share system that all hospitals have to use. So data sharing is made easy and cost effective
- get rid of the mandate
- bigger tax credits for people who pay for their own health insurance and/or have HSA's

Also HH makes great points and also adds into the costs of our health care..... the 52 in TV's in the rooms.... the birthing suites people request or think they need...the fancy art on the walls... the new carpet....the décor, the meals, etc.

Here is one for you. Lots of hospitals were built and have asbestos in them. So hospitals have to contract out work for either removal of the asbestos or contract people to contain it. Here is an example of how all this works and how big of a waste of money. A hospital needs to have a light fixture changed out so they hire an electrician (union)... they also have to hire these special asbestos containment crew. So a crew is called to "tape off the area where the electrician is working with poly and what not... that is 1 man. electrician comes in and does his work. Now to remove the poly (by some states laws) needs to be another guy to come and do it. So that guy takes down the poly.... then another guy has to take it to the garbage and a special garbage removal which costs about double. So in this one light fixture change the hospital is getting charged for the electrician, and 3 guys for the asbestos removal and the higher cost of the trash. When it could have been done by two guys total.

You see the problem and why health care costs are crazy!! it is crap like this we are all paying for in insurance premiums, taxes, and what not.

Like I have mentioned everyone wants to point at insurance premium and insurance companies are the devil.... but look at the system that is in place. Insurance isn't just paying for the actual medical procedure.... they are paying for all the infra structure in each hospital. When a janitor gets a raise.... premiums go up.... when the price of a meal goes up.... premium goes up.... when that light fixture in my example was replaced....premiums go up....I could go on and on.

I know I talk a lot about the ACA or Obamacare.... but this is truly one piece of legislation that will cripple our nation. But if revamped could be one to help our nation move forward too. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is example of how much drugs are costing the all of us....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ ... d=1PRCMSRT


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I'm really curious when they throw out the numbers for the ACA if they are stating the numbers that are enrolled or the numbers that have insurance they can afford. Under the ACA some people who could afford it now cant. I suspect many of the "new" users are actually people that had insurance prior to the ACA But lost it due to the changes and then had to reapply for coverage.


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