# UGUIDE Pheasant Hunts - Outfitter Charged



## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

South Dakota based Outfitter- U Guide- charged in ND for Guiding without
License. Good job again NDGF. 
DK


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Drakekiller said:


> South Dakota based Outfitter- U Guide- charged in ND for Guiding without
> License. Good job again NDGF.
> DK


 :beer: I'll second that!!!


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

The videos on their web site were just unreal. It showed them or their clients running down the gravel road shooting sharptails. No kidding these jokers were actually shooting from the road. In the background you can see the golf course at Gackle. Glad their gone.


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## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

Is there a link to an article anywhere??


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Old Hunter said:


> The videos on their web site were just unreal. It showed them or their clients running down the gravel road shooting sharptails. No kidding these jokers were actually shooting from the road. In the background you can see the golf course at Gackle. Glad their gone.


Oldhunter, what video are you refering to? The Gackle Website was shutdown in Jan. Do you have a link?


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

You should be interested to know that I have been charged with acting and advertising as a Outfitter and Guide and have plea bargained to a lesser charge of 1 count of acting as a guide and outfitter. All told with fines and attorney's fees it will cost me $3000. The Waterfowl operation took in a total of 6 paying hunters, 2 of which were undercover ND Game and Fish Detectives. I suspect that there may even be some Game and Fish detectives posting on this site and in this thread so I guess the same warning should go out to everyone else that hunts and fishes in ND.

Prior to my knowledge of these charges I determined to close the waterfowl website and also close the gackle camp because of two reasons: 1. Duck season is too short to make it and 2. The landowner of the Gackle Camp did not meet minimum UGUIDE standards.

The ND game & Fish detectives state that both I and the landowner were in violation but to this date he has yet to be contacted or charged with anything.

Based on conversations with the detectives on my case I have also come to find out that the regs posted on the Game and Fish website are not fully "complete" meaning it is not full disclosure.

The part of the reg that is not posted on the ND Game & Fish website is excludes this text "The term (Outfitter/Guide) does not include a person holding title or an equitable interest in business operations if the purpose of the business operation is to provide food or lodging to the general public, chamber of commerce activities, travel agencies, or others that offer free information to attract outdoor and recreational use of their communities.

You have to ask yourself: Is what UGUIDE does more like what a travel agent does or more like what a guide or outfitter does?

In the end I ended up pleading guilty to lesser charges only because I could not afford to defend my self to the full extent on a not guilt plea. That is unfortunate.

UGUIDE evolved from the model farm that I created on my 700 acres in SD. Before I owned it there was minimal pheasant and deer hunting let along habitat or wildflie populations. Thanks to out-of-state hunters that were willing to pay me I could AFFORD to create nearly 300 acres of nesting, wintering and brood rearing habitat that would not have existed before or itn would have all become crop ground and not too productive for wildlife. This is essentially what I do with all landowners at UGUIDE pheasant camps. They can afford to create above average habitat from hunters dollars whereas with today's grain prices they would turn most to the plow as you will soon see with CRP and other cropable acres in your state. Many of your states farmers are lobbying hard to pull they contracted CRP acres out so they can crop them and reap the benefit.

I have talked with ND Game & Fish, Dept of Tourism, Landowners, Secretary of State, and Department of Commerce. It would seem to me that all are very much in favor or my Travel Agency service sending hunters to the State of North Dakota, except Game and Fish and North Dakota Residents that do not own land.

The questions you have to ask yourself are: Is what happened to UGUIDE fair and just? Is this what makes our country great? Is this the freedom our boys are fighting for in Iraq? Is all fee-hunting really the antichrist of the sport? Is there anything good associated with fee hunting? What are ALL the economic factors driving access to private land issues and what can we do about them?

I may or may not participate in this forum going forward as I specialize sending hunters and sportsmen to quality destinations and if this site and its members do not support that then I will spend my valuable time elsewhere.

Regards,

Chris

UGUIDE


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Chris, First off this site is not friendly to outfitters, they will show you no mercy here. Your problem is you did not check into the laws of this state before coming here. Unlike SD you have to go through a lot of hoops to be an outfitter. On your website you advertise for guided hunts, and you are still advertising for hunts in ND. Are your guides licensed in ND? Do you and them have CPR and first aid training. Do you have the required amount of insurance? All this has to be done in ND

http://www.uguidesdpheasants.com/pheasa ... -rates.cfm


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Chris

I am glad you got busted if all you did prior to starting up you operation in ND was to read the NDGF website you must not be much of a business person, as most would thoroughly check regulations and maybe even call the NDGF to ask a few questions. The NDGF officers will answer any question you may have, any time you call. All of the qualifications for guiding and outfitting are posted on the NDGF website, it should have given you a clue if you had one.

There are several of us on this site that worked with ND guides and outfitters to craft the laws that are in place for guiding and outfitting in our State. While they may not be perfect they were effective.

I am on record in many places on this site stating that I believe that ND NEEDS guides and outfitters but only in limited Numbers. Bottom line is that if you cannot find any wildlife to hunt in ND on your own you are not looking very hard. If you want someone to primp and pamper you so you don't get your hands dirty then you should hire a guide/outfitter.

If you want to run a travel agency run one if you want to be a guide in ND get your $hit together learn the rules and follow the rules.

Please quit throwing your patriotic Bull$hit at this issue. Our guys are and always have been fighting and dying for us so we can remain free and safe. Using any reference to our guys fighting so that guides and outfitters can sell their services is a slap in the face to my family members who have been at war to preserve our freedom and safety.

Is fee hunting the anitchrist? Yes, The wildlife of ND is owned by the people of ND. Name another business where you can sell something that belongs to someone else. Oh wait it is access fees I forgot. Personally I could care less if you continue to be associated with this site but that is just my opinion.

Regards

Bob


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

g/o said:


> Chris, First off this site is not friendly to outfitters, they will show you no mercy here. Your problem is you did not check into the laws of this state before coming here. Unlike SD you have to go through a lot of hoops to be an outfitter. On your website you advertise for guided hunts, and you are still advertising for hunts in ND. Are your guides licensed in ND? Do you and them have CPR and first aid training. Do you have the required amount of insurance? All this has to be done in ND
> 
> http://www.uguidesdpheasants.com/pheasa ... -rates.cfm


G/O, why would I need any of this stuff? Also I did check into laws before doing anything in ND. Where are you getting your info from?

I advertise for guide service for those that would like to add it. We don't offer any for ND just SD. Why would I need to be certified in CPR if I never leave my home office in the Twin Cities MN?

I just put hunters on landowners doorsteps and they are resposible for them. They take in 100% of funds and they pay me from that , why would I need liability insurance?


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

North Dakota Century Code

Our laws by the way

http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t201c01.pdf

17. "Guide" means an individual who is employed by or contracts with a licensed outfitter to help the outfitter furnish personal services for the conduct of outdoor recreational activities directly related to the conduct of activities for which the employing outfitter is licensed.

30. "Outfitter" means a person that holds the person's business operation out to the public for hire or consideration; provides facilities or services for consideration; maintains, leases, or otherwise provides compensation for the use of land and which receives compensation from a third party for use of that land; or otherwise uses equipment or accommodations for consideration for the conduct of outdoor recreational activities, including hunting animals or birds and fishing on lakes, reservoirs, rivers, and streams. An outfitter may act as a guide. The term does not include a person holding title or an equitable interest in business operations if the
purpose of the business operation is to provide food or lodging to the general public, chamber of commerce activities, travel agencies, or others that offer free information to attract outdoor and recreational use of their communities.

http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t201c03.pdf

The rest of the Laws governing guides and outfitter can be found at the link above.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Bob,

I think someone hacked your links. Mine came up:

12.1-29-05. Definitions. In this chapter:

1. A "house of prostitution" is any place where prostitution is regularly carried on by a person under the control, management, or supervision of another.

2. An "inmate" is a prostitute who acts as such in or through the agency of a house of prostitution.

3. A "prostitute" is a person who engages in sexual activity for hire.

4. A "prostitution business" is any business which derives funds from prostitution regularly carried on by a person under the control, management, or supervision of another.

5. "Sexual activity" means sexual act or sexual contact as those terms are defined in section 12.1-20-02.

Strange.

M.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

Let me see if I have this straight. This guy is offering to put clients in tough with land owners that will allow the hunter to hunt their property for a fee. He is also offering to put the hunter in touch with land owners that will allow the hunter to hunt for a fee and the land owner themselves will show the hunter the best spots. In addition if requested he will put the hunter in touch with a licensed guide in the state. He gets paid a reference fee not by the hunter but by the land owner or guide. He does no guiding or even steps foot in the state. Isn't this what his business is? Does this mean if I tell Joe Blow to go see farmer Smith for some hunting and farmer smith sends me 20 bucks I have to have a certified licensed guide in North Dakota?


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Ask a lawyer :rollin:


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Bob Kellam said:


> Chris
> 
> I am glad you got busted if all you did prior to starting up you operation in ND was to read the NDGF website you must not be much of a business person, as most would thoroughly check regulations and maybe even call the NDGF to ask a few questions. The NDGF officers will answer any question you may have, any time you call. All of the qualifications for guiding and outfitting are posted on the NDGF website, it should have given you a clue if you had one.
> 
> Bob


Bob, for the record I did call Bruce Burkett directly early in 2007 on this matter. I did this mostly on behalf of the landowners to insure that they were in compliance.

UGUIDE is unique and I have a unique agreement with landowners. But it seems that interested parties are not concerned with the details and specifics, just with their agendas.

You can be sure that this is all about freedoms and persecutions. This isn't really about upholding the law but using the law to accomplish a wide variety of agendas. I thought the whole premise from the Directors message is about QUALITY

"Director's Message
Webster's dictionary defines "Sportsman/woman" as one who engages in sports, especially hunting and fishing; a person, who is fair, generous, and a good looser and a graceful winner. I think we all know what it means to be a good sport. To do what is right; to act in the best interest of the resource by being fair and responsible.

The mission of the North Dakota Game and Fish Department is "...to protect, conserve and enhance fish and wildlife populations and their habitats for sustained public consumptive and non-consumptive use." In that regard, when dealing with the topic of commercialization of these resources for personal monetary gain, ethical and moral considerations must be the foundation of the Department's approach to their regulation.

For Guides and Outfitters, the North Dakota Legislature has set the process for regulating this area of commercialization. You as a guide or outfitter have an important public responsibility to carry-out. You have the opportunity to shape and form a visitor's outdoor experience in our State. In essence, you are an ambassador for the State. His or her impression of US will be based on that experience. These experiences must be learning experiences too. Whether it's explaining the relationships of certain habitats and specific wildlife species or the beauty of a sunrise or sunset, guiding is more than "getting a limit."

The Legislature charges you with many responsibilities. If you are going to guide or outfit in this State, you will be accepting those responsibilities. It's our duty to hold you to them. This North Dakota Guide and Outfitters Handbook and Test Guide is designed to make you successful. You must know your tasks and take them seriously. Our staff stands ready to assist you in navigating the new standards for your industry. Make your efforts a success by giving your clients a rewarding and ethical outdoor experience.

Dean Hildebrand"

Or what about the Mission Statement of the Secretary of States Office.

Welcome to the web site for the North Dakota Secretary of State
In keeping with the goals of the Secretary of State's office, this web site is designed to provide visitors with easy access to useful, comprehensive, and meaningful information.

"Mission Statement
This office will:

_*Serve the people of the State of North Dakota and its guests; *_Execute with integrity the duties required by the North Dakota Constitution and the North Dakota Century Code. 
Collect and preserve the records of the State as defined by the law; 
Act as an ambassador for the State of North Dakota, its people, and its way of life. 
This mission will be dispatched effectively, efficiently, expeditiously, courteously, and with financial responsibility."

This includes landowners and non landowners alike.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

cwoparson said:


> Let me see if I have this straight. This guy is offering to put clients in tough with land owners that will allow the hunter to hunt their property for a fee. He is also offering to put the hunter in touch with land owners that will allow the hunter to hunt for a fee and the land owner themselves will show the hunter the best spots. In addition if requested he will put the hunter in touch with a licensed guide in the state. He gets paid a reference fee not by the hunter but by the land owner or guide. He does no guiding or even steps foot in the state. Isn't this what his business is? Does this mean if I tell Joe Blow to go see farmer Smith for some hunting and farmer smith sends me 20 bucks I have to have a certified licensed guide in North Dakota?


cwoparson, that is exactly what I do (I don't even contract the guiding, the landowner would have to do that and he would have to insure that the guide was licensed). Is that any different than what a travel agent does with hotel room that they don't own, lease or rent? that is what I am charged with and had to plead guilty to.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

cwoparson
To anwser your question *Yes *it does if that $20.00 is a fee you have negotiated for the referal.*NO!* If that $20.00 is a gratuity then you do not!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

It sounds to me Chris, like you are just looking for a way around the law?

Are you angry that your legal interpretation of the technicalities and fine print wasn't to your liking?

What's your ultimate beef with NDGF?

Ryan


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

One other comment on this, UGuide, you are either a man of no principal if you felt you where not doing anything illegal, then you should have fought the charges.

Way back over 25 years ago I was faced with a choice of fighting a bogus charge or pleading to a lesser charge. I chose to fight, the cost of fighting and having a clear record was very expensive. I could have paid a fine for the lesser charge that would have amounted to 30 times less than I spent on legal fees!

You may not like the law, but it is the law. So instead of trying to appear the victim, move on and accept the fact you violated ND Law and where caught and plead guilty to it. All the BS and snow job you are attempting does not change it.

You have plead guilty to the charge. Nobody forced you to do that, it was a choice just as it was a choice to try and skirt the laws of ND. You will most likely say it was the least expensive and other such BS, but your business as you have represented it is in direct violation of the law of this state!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Chris, I went back and read your website does it state SD hunts only? I didn't find that anywhere. Where do I get my information, it's obvious you didn't check or you would be in trouble. Chris it costs me $1000.00 a year for insurance $250 for an outfitters license, plus my lodging facilities are inspected and I pay sales tax on the lodging amount. Did You? You are not the first one to get busted and you will not be the last. People like you give us licensed outfitters a bad name. Look at the comments here, I agree some are way out in left field. Fact of the matter is you broke the law.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

Wow, with all due respect I think that stinks. I can understand it if someone from out of state or in state for that matter actually guides or works on a guiding operation. Sounds like some of the state laws I've seen to set up speed traps but in this case a technicality trap. But it is your state and your law. Just seems over the line to me.

GO, the way I read it he was offering a referral service to people like yourself. To me it didn't seem like he was trying to come into your state and run competition against you but guide customers in your direction. guess I just see it kind of differently or I'm missing something. Probable the latter.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

MRN, NDSU must be proud to have you as an instructor :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

R y a n said:


> It sounds to me Chris, like you are just looking for a way around the law?
> 
> Are you angry that your legal interpretation of the technicalities and fine print wasn't to your liking?
> 
> ...


Ryan, in order to become an outfitter you have to guide for 2 years. In order to guide I would have to live in ND. If I specialize in self-guided hunts and live in MN it would seem obvious that I don't need to be licensed but the landowner that hires me to book hunts for them is the one that needs to be licensed. Annual license fees are $2000/year which is not doable based on commission split I have with the resident landowners. Based on the outcome of my case the only way I can send hunters to the sate of ND is as a travel agent. If I am a travel agent does that preclude me from need to be licensed as a outfitter/guide? If it does not then all my business will be directed to SD.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Ron Gilmore said:


> One other comment on this, UGuide, you are either a man of no principal if you felt you where not doing anything illegal, then you should have fought the charges.
> 
> Way back over 25 years ago I was faced with a choice of fighting a bogus charge or pleading to a lesser charge. I chose to fight, the cost of fighting and having a clear record was very expensive. I could have paid a fine for the lesser charge that would have amounted to 30 times less than I spent on legal fees!
> 
> ...


Ron, the answer is very simple. I will not go into debt to fight your fight. This is not my fight. It is the North Dakotans State and the North Dakotans fight. I wanted to fight to clear my name but my attorney advised me accordingly. So Ron, get the truth get the facts and fight for what is right. A year ago I thought North Dakota was a really cool state with a sportsman culture but I am having second thoughts and that ain't no BS.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

g/o said:


> Chris, I went back and read your website does it state SD hunts only? I didn't find that anywhere. Where do I get my information, it's obvious you didn't check or you would be in trouble. Chris it costs me $1000.00 a year for insurance $250 for an outfitters license, plus my lodging facilities are inspected and I pay sales tax on the lodging amount. Did You? You are not the first one to get busted and you will not be the last. People like you give us licensed outfitters a bad name. Look at the comments here, I agree some are way out in left field. Fact of the matter is you broke the law.


g/o, I can list a guide service for ND or SD. If the hunter wants a guide in ND the landowner has to provide for that. I book self-guided hunts. if the landowner wnats to offer guiding service they can do that.

I own the Pheasant Camp Lodge in SD, I pay $1000/year in liability insurance, I pay $8000 in property taxes, I pay $1700 in state sales tax. My lodge is licensed with the Dept of Health.

All the landowners I book for pay these things. What is your point.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Fact. In 2007 UGUIDE was responsible for generating $30,000 in non-resident hunting license fees for South Dakota Game, Fish and Parks. In 2008, UGUIDE will generate $0 in non-resident hunting license fees for North Dakota Game and Fish.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

> In 2008, UGUIDE will generate $0 in non-resident hunting license fees for North Dakota Game and Fish.


Mission accomplished. The sooner these fly-by-night operations go away the better we residents will sleep.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

> A year ago I thought North Dakota was a really cool state with a sportsman culture but I am having second thoughts and that ain't no BS.


ND is a really cool state with a sportsmans culture. With or without you.



> 30. "Outfitter" means *a person **that holds the person's business operation out to the public for hire or consideration*; provides facilities or services for consideration; maintains, leases, or otherwise provides compensation for the use of land and which *receives compensation from a third party *for use of that land; or otherwise uses equipment or accommodations for consideration for the conduct of outdoor recreational activities, including hunting animals or birds and fishing on lakes, reservoirs, rivers, and streams. An outfitter may act as a guide. The term does not include a person holding title or an equitable interest in business operations if the
> purpose of the business operation is to provide food or lodging to the general public, chamber of commerce activities, travel agencies, or others that offer *free *information to attract outdoor and recreational use of their communities.


The above quote says it all, if you advertise your operation as providing goods or services for a *FEE* you are considered an outfitter by definition of ND law.

You got clipped simply because "ignorance of the law" is not a defense in any court. No surprise that the case was plea bargained down. Pretty much the norm in ND.



> In 2008, UGUIDE will generate $0 in non-resident hunting license fees for North Dakota Game and Fish.


Thanks for the portion of the $3000.00 contribution the state of ND will receive. It will make up for some of your NR License fees. It could have been avoided quite easily, instead of trying to find a way around the laws.


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

UGUIDE = Pimp
Hunters = Johns
G/O's = Prostitutes

:lol:


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Based on the outcome of my case the only way I can send hunters to the sate of ND is as a travel agent. If I am a travel agent does that preclude me from need to be licensed as a outfitter/guide? If it does not then all my business will be directed to SD.


That is correct Chris, the problem you had is you are setting the price not the farmer. Take a look at the way Cabela's does things, the outfitter set his price not Cabela's. This is where you violated the law, and made you the outfitter. Now as far as you paying taxes at your place fine, but did the rest of the guys you sent them to. In SD if you generated $30k in license fees like you say, that would be 300 licenses. So if all your places had 300 total hunters and they paid an average of $500.00, thats $150,000.00 I bet SD would like to know if they got the sales tax paid on this. Just for your information SD is looking very hard at ND outfitter laws and are considering going to the same type of a law. Good luck


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

g/o said:


> MRN, NDSU must be proud to have you as an instructor


Great - another WHACKO cyber-stalker nutjob getting off because he figures that he knows who and I and what my profession is (even thought its all over this website)

Ryan/Chris - Can we get cyber-stalker nut jobs like this removed from the site - they start with whatever the hell this is, then they start threatening folks, and their kids... what a nut job.

M.


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Check out Pheasant Country web sight-open forum. For more on this subject. Most do not think I should have brought this subject up.
DK


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Just wondering? Isn't Uguide the same as the guiding service offered by Gander Mountain?

As to UGuide.....They state they are a "commercialy funded habitat organization that builds and sustains pheasant habitat in the Dakotas by channeling hunters proceeds directly to the local ranchers and farmers that are actively farming for pheasants" Give me a break!!!!!

So...when the farmers take all the CRP out and crop farm, I would assume that UGUIDE would be out of business because now those farmers won't be "actively farming for pheasants" any longer.

A "commercialy funded HABITAT ORGANIZATION"? Geeze maybe DU and Delta should get into the guiding business!

I'm calling the Game and Fish department right now to see why UGUIDE is still listing ND as a destination....and why they show that most of the hunts on the ND property are currently booked with deposit money already accepted.

If you want to guide in ND FOLLOW the rules....there are many outfitter running a good business in the state and provide a needed service. ND doesn't need UGUIDE or anyone like them to come in and disregard the rules or as I see it just interpret them to their liking.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

UGUIDE said:


> Ron Gilmore said:
> 
> 
> > One other comment on this, UGuide, you are either a man of no principal if you felt you where not doing anything illegal, then you should have fought the charges.
> ...


So did mine, but I had the backbone,and principal to not take the easy way out as it seems you did, and then whine about it!!!!!!!!!
Just move on! you broke the law, you got caught, you plead guilty end of story! Don't like the law, move here and vote for people to change it.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> UGUIDE = Pimp
> Hunters = Johns
> G/O's = Prostitutes :lol:


Prime example why discussions go south on this forum. Stupid is as stupid does.

Seems to me some of you have you hackles up and won't or don't want to listen. I kind of suspect the former. I don't think the guy is crying but just trying to explain how he unintentionally broke the law and feels he maybe should have been cut some slack for what he did not know. Yes ignorance of the law is no excuse by the book but it does happen. Maybe he should have done a better job of checking into ND state laws but we all make mistakes. I once got a ticket in a state for making a right turn on a red light. Most states it is legal to do that but no this state. I paid the ticket. Thought it was unfair and certainly not intentional but that didn't make me a scum bag law violator of that states laws.

Comments like the above quote serves no purpose except to make people question the type of people that live in ND. I sure hope that is not representative of most sportsmen in your state and I suspect it is not.

Just my opinion.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Field Hunter said:


> So...when the farmers take all the CRP out and crop farm, I would assume that UGUIDE would be out of business because now those farmers won't be "actively farming for pheasants" any longer.
> 
> I'm calling the Game and Fish department right now to see why UGUIDE is still listing ND as a destination....and why they show that most of the hunts on the ND property are currently booked with deposit money already accepted.


Field Hunter, I see your good at "jumping to conclusions" like a lot of other people on this forum vs. first getting the facts.

The fact is that all the ND spots show as reserved because I put them hold hold and am not taking any bookings for them due to my case.

Secondly, my agreement with landowners states that either of us can terminate the agreement at any time. If landowners do not wish to farm for pheasants any longer and put CRP to the plow then I will have no choice but to terminate my agreement with them becuase I will not send hunters to destinations that are not farming for pheasants. I have already terminated one camps agreement in SD because they did not meet my minimum standards. I also terminated my agreement with the owner of the Gackle camp and shutdown the waterfowl website because it did not meet my minimum standards, it was not because of the ND charges.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

cwo, 


> Comments like the above quote serves no purpose except to make people question the type of people that live in ND. I sure hope that is not representative of most sportsmen in your state and I suspect it is not. Just my opinion.


I couldn't agree with you these are some real juvenile comments coming from from adults. Same as this posted by MRN



> PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject:
> Bob,
> 
> I think someone hacked your links. Mine came up:
> ...


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

g/o said:


> Chris, I went back and read your website does it state SD hunts only? I didn't find that anywhere. Where do I get my information, it's obvious you didn't check or you would be in trouble. Chris it costs me $1000.00 a year for insurance $250 for an outfitters license, plus my lodging facilities are inspected and I pay sales tax on the lodging amount. Did You? You are not the first one to get busted and you will not be the last. People like you give us licensed outfitters a bad name. Look at the comments here, I agree some are way out in left field. Fact of the matter is you broke the law.


G/O, I assume you run a fee hunting operation in ND? Correct? Aren't you the least bit concerned that if you called me up and asked me to send more hunters your way that were looking for exactly what you had and you wnated to hire my booking services that my response would have to be "I'm sorry but this works very well in SD but in ND if I was to do that for you I would be in violation of the law"? Every other ND landowner I have talked to about this situation is appalled by the infirngement of their freedoms to do and hire whatever they please in regards to the hunting rights on their property.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Ron Gilmore said:


> UGUIDE said:
> 
> 
> > Ron Gilmore said:
> ...


Ron, the Logan County States attorney said there was nothing preventing me from operating as a Travel Agent in North Dakota. So pleading guilty is not "end of story". I believe opportunity is found in the seeds of adversity.

This is all quite simple you see. If ND Game & Fish does not want me to refer hunters to the state of ND then I won't. It is that simple. They knew who I was but I never even got a call or email giving me a warning about my setup or even any questions for that matter. I guess if there really is this"Good Ole Boy" network out there then I won't feel too bad about pleading guilty to get out from underneath Boss Hog and Hazard Coutny Justice.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> appalled by the infirngement of their freedoms to do and hire whatever they please in regards to the hunting rights on their property.


So, as you see it, any landowner should be able to let someone shoot a bald eagle on their property??? They can do what they want with the hunting rights on their property as long as it is in the confines of the law!!! Pretty simple concept if you ask me!!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Chris, yes I run a fee hunting operation and I am licensed,insured, bonded and 90% of the land we operate is in my farming operation. Again Chris "if" I were to have contacted you for hunters I would have known you were operating illegally. It wouldn't help you out of your situation what so ever. You are establishing the price of the hunts not me, let say I wanted $700.00 for what you charge $500 for. If you were a travel agent that is not a problem, but you became an outfitter when you set the price.

I'm sure this works very well in SD and could work just as well in ND. Problem is you need to be licensed to do it, I could do it because I am a licensed outfitter, you are not. If you want to start a travel agency fine, then the farmer sets the price not you. I hope this shed some light on this for you.


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## Shu (Oct 21, 2003)

UGUIDE said:


> They knew who I was but I never even got a call or email giving me a warning about my setup or even any questions for that matter.


That's not the way it works. They make the rules, you follow the rules. If you have a question, you call them.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

MRN said:


> g/o said:
> 
> 
> > MRN, NDSU must be proud to have you as an instructor
> ...


*If there is ANY illegal activity, threats, PMs, phone calls, etc Chris, myself and the rest of the moderators want to know immediately.*

There is *ZERO tolerance *here for that kind of behaviour.

Anyone encountering this type of behavior please get in contact immediately with one of us.

I can be reached within 5 minutes via PM during most business hours.

If we find that the accusations are founded, not only will their membership here be terminated, but we will contact the proper legal authorities for further action as deemed necessary.

Ryan


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

> Ron, the Logan County States attorney said there was nothing preventing me from operating as a Travel Agent in North Dakota. So pleading guilty is not "end of story". I believe opportunity is found in the seeds of adversity.


This is all quite simple you see. If ND Game & Fish does not want me to refer hunters to the state of ND then I won't. It is that simple. They knew who I was but I never even got a call or email giving me a warning about my setup or even any questions for that matter. I guess if there really is this"Good Ole Boy" network out there then I won't feel too bad about pleading guilty to get out from underneath Boss Hog and Hazard Coutny Justice.

Then run a travel agency, last time I used one was booking a trip for the wife and kids. The travel agency came back with the PRICES from the airlines, and hotels! Unlike you who set the prices for the service!!!!!!!

I just love this claiming a poor me and pretending to be a victim and that the Boss Hogg of Logan Country and G&F where out to get you!!!!!

In the words of Red Forman from the 70's show!" You are a -- oh never mind you will not understand it anyway!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Every other ND landowner I have talked to about this situation is appalled by the infirngement of their freedoms to do and hire whatever they please in regards to the hunting rights on their property.


You see, that's the attitude that gets peoples hackles up. Wildlife is the property of the people, not the individual landowner. Hunting rights is controlled by the state. In many debates on here landowners will claim they are not selling wildlife they are selling access to their property. They are not sovereign entities within themselves, they like all the rest of the non landowners are individual members of this nation. Owning land does not give you special freedoms beyond everyone else. They do control access, but not hunting rights. The right to hunt belongs to us all, while the right to reduce an animal to individual ownership is granted through the state by license.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

g/o said:


> Chris, yes I run a fee hunting operation and I am licensed,insured, bonded and 90% of the land we operate is in my farming operation. Again Chris "if" I were to have contacted you for hunters I would have known you were operating illegally. It wouldn't help you out of your situation what so ever. You are establishing the price of the hunts not me, let say I wanted $700.00 for what you charge $500 for. If you were a travel agent that is not a problem, but you became an outfitter when you set the price.
> 
> I'm sure this works very well in SD and could work just as well in ND. Problem is you need to be licensed to do it, I could do it because I am a licensed outfitter, you are not. If you want to start a travel agency fine, then the farmer sets the price not you. I hope this shed some light on this for you.


G/O, I guess I never really looked at it that way and from what I have understood from the Regs it doesn't specifically state it that way but I could see where you are coming from. From my website how can you determine that I set the price or the landowner sets the price??


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Ron Gilmore said:


> Then run a travel agency, last time I used one was booking a trip for the wife and kids. The travel agency came back with the PRICES from the airlines, and hotels! Unlike you who set the prices for the service!!!!!!!


Ron, I have to thank you and G/O because this "who sets prices" issue sheds new light on what the issue was in the first place.

Does it say somewhere in the Regs anything about who sets prices determines guide or outfitter? Is this your opinion or what are you basing your response on?


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> You see, that's the attitude that gets peoples hackles up. Wildlife is the property of the people, not the individual landowner. Hunting rights is controlled by the state. In many debates on here landowners will claim they are not selling wildlife they are selling access to their property. They are not sovereign entities within themselves, they like all the rest of the non landowners are individual members of this nation. Owning land does not give you special freedoms beyond everyone else. They do control access, but not hunting rights. The right to hunt belongs to us all, while the right to reduce an animal to individual ownership is granted through the state by license.


Whoa, talk about a statement riddled with contradictions. Might want to try and reword that if any kind of point is meant to come out of it.

Just for starters the land owner does in deed have a special freedom. That would be to control who is on his land. He can even tell you while on his land you cannot hunt. Or he may tell you while on his land you may hunt if you wish. He may even tell you while on his land you must pay him a fee whether you hunt or not. Yep, I would say that land owner certainly does have a freedom you as a non owner does not have. He has the freedom to control access to his land whether there is public claimed wildlife on it or not.

He even has the freedom and right to tell everyone they may not hunt any of that public owned resource called wildlife while it is on his property. Your right to hunt just hit a impassable road block at the fence line. Sure sounds like a good reason to keep from pissing off the land owner to me.

This is not the first time I've seen a link tried to be made between selling access to private property and selling public owned wildlife and it doesn't wash. Now if that land owner was charging someone something like per bird shot then I would agree with you and that would be wrong and I would think illegal. But if it is a flat base trespass fee to come on his land whether you hunt or not, bag any game or not then that is his right. At least that is how I see it and I think the law supports that. Am I wrong?


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

From the century code:



> Outfitter" means a person that holds the person's business operation out to the public for hire or consideration; provides facilities or services for consideration; maintains, leases, or otherwise provides compensation for the use of land and which receives compensation from a third party for use of that land; or otherwise uses equipment or accommodations for consideration for the conduct of outdoor recreational activities, including hunting animals or birds and fishing on lakes, reservoirs, rivers, and streams. An outfitter may act as a guide. The term does not include a person holding title or an equitable interest in business operations if the
> purpose of the business operation is to provide food or lodging to the general public, chamber of commerce activities, travel agencies, or others that offer free information to attract outdoor and recreational use of their communities.


Chris I went to your website and I'm sorry for you but under ND you are classified as an outfitter. For one thing if I wanted to pay for a hunt I could do it online through pay pal. No matter how I look at it everything is about U-Guide. We have some tough laws here basically I would not need a license because I operate on the land I own or operate for agriculture. This is how tough ND is and why I have the license. Last spring a group of guys from this site came and rented my lodge for spring goose hunting. I would have needed nothing at that point. I found some geese feeding on one of the neighbors fields and secured permission for them. Bingo not my land and being these guys were paying me I now need to be an outfitter. You don't agree with it your not the first one!!!!!! but its the law. Cheer up it's not the end of the world. Things are tough up here!!!!!!!!!!!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

g/o said:


> From the century code:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


G/O this is a great point. Thanks for posting it.

Like he said Chris, this is the law. It's up to you to follow it.

I think everyone's had their say on this issue. UGUIDE you've now been spreading your thoughts on it across several forums over the last few days.

Do you think you've now made your point?

Is there anything else that needs to be said on the topic?


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

yeah, i have something. i live in nebraska. this is one of the most conservative, closed minded states there are, but north dakotans boggle my mind. is it like north korea up there, where nobody can leave, and the only media you have access to is propaganda? you know, i can understand [email protected] trying to pull something like this, but for the majority of citizens to defend theyre actions really shows class. and you betcha, im proud to be the dirtiest 2 dollar hooker you ever met if thats what it means to be a guide.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

neb_bo said:


> im proud to be the dirtiest 2 dollar hooker you ever met if thats what it means to be a guide.


Wear it like a badge of honor, you earned it. Any dingleberry can take a lazy-*** out to kill for money. The resource prostitutes have lost all sight of what hunting is really supposed to be.

If you have to pay for killin', what else are paying for personal gratification.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

neb_bo

Chill man. Outfitters in this state got a bad rap because of some really bad outfitters in our state that thought money in their pockets was more important than following the rules. The outfitters association did nothing about it at the time to my knowledge, and the media reports of multiple violation continued to pile up.

There are several guide/outfitters that I call friends in ND, there are others that I agree to disagree with and we still talk about most any issue that comes up. All have never had any kind of run-in with the LEO's

This is not about legal guiding and outfitting IMO, it is about an outfitter that got pinched because he was in violation of ND law.

I don't know you other than from some of your posts on this site.

Ya we have tough laws for guiding and outfitting and as I said in a previous post it was done with the help of some of the outfitters in the state that are affected by these laws IMO because they were getting sick and tired of getting a black eye because of some in their ranks that made the choice to do as they pleased and not follow the law or they tried to exploit a "loop-hole" in the law. We closed a few of those "loop-holes" and in the process Chris (uguide) seems to be taking exception to his fate on several websites around the area.

Bottom line is that Chris (uguide) could be doing business in ND had he just followed the rules. Instead he has run home to momma where he knows he has allies to boost his deflated ego, and has chosen a smear campaign against ND's laws and hunters.

Fact; ND has no limits on the number of outfitters that can take the test and work in ND whether they are resident or non residents.

Pretty simple to see what is going on. Instead of accepting responsibility for his actions Chris (uguide) has chosen to blame everyone else but himself for his problems. I am surprised to see you jump on that bandwagon.

Regards

Bob


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

i understand that he broke the law, and thats the bottom line. it just seems like a pretty bogus law. and i can understand that ndr's have a bad taste in theyre mouths from a few bad outfitters, but i cant even mention that im a guide in another state, for a law abiding outfitter on this forum without someone calling me a prostitute. i dont post on the hot topics forum very often, but i do read it. the reason i dont post is because i loose my head after i read one of the multiple threads bashing all outfitters after one gets charged.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Neb-bo, the reason many don't like outfitters is not because they provide a service to the people that use them, but because there are so many that try take it away from others. They lease up far more land than they can ever use, in an attempt to force people to use them. They try force people to use them to get to a resource that belongs to us all. I can not think of a word low enough to describe that. It's sort of like the old westerns where the guy in black says "give me the deed to ranch or I'll tie you to the railroad track".

I'm not saying you operate this way neb-bo, but up here many do. In the past ten years they have become a scourge to North Dakota, not the economic benefit the claim to be.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

R y a n said:


> g/o said:
> 
> 
> > From the century code:
> ...


Ryan & G/O, if you read the text carefully you will see that I am not getting my specific answers to my questions. What I see happening here is this: Someone posts a fragment of the law and makes a statement about me and/or my website and says "see, your guilty". That makes the individual judge and jury. I'm not looking for a jury I am looking for fact based perceptions, insight and opinions. Now back to my questions:

1. The statement was made that who sets price determines outfitter or not. Where in the ND Outiftter/Guide/Bussiness regs does it show this?

2. You've looked at my website and claimed I am outfitter but the law declares that travel agents are not included in the definition. There are no regulations for travel agents or license requirements in the dakotas or MN for travel agents. From my website it is not deteminable what I provide vs. what the landowners provides or what our contractual ageement is. I send hunters to their destination and that is it. This is by far closer to what a travel agent does that what a guide or outfitter does. By law, aren't I exlcuded from the definition of the term "Outfitter"?


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Bob Kellam said:


> neb_bo
> 
> Bottom line is that Chris (uguide) could be doing business in ND had he just followed the rules. Instead he has run home to momma where he knows he has allies to boost his deflated ego, and has chosen a smear campaign against ND's laws and hunters.
> 
> Bob


Bob, specific question: How could I be doing business today if I had done things differently? I do not live in your state nor have I even hunted of fished there before 2007. I cannot be a guide and therefore cannot get licensed as either guide or outfitter. You have to guide for 2 years before earning eligibility for outfitter.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> Neb-bo, the reason many don't like outfitters is not because they provide a service to the people that use them, but because there are so many that try take it away from others. They lease up far more land than they can ever use, in an attempt to force people to use them. They try force people to use them to get to a resource that belongs to us all. I can not think of a word low enough to describe that. It's sort of like the old westerns where the guy in black says "give me the deed to ranch or I'll tie you to the railroad track".
> 
> I'm not saying you operate this way neb-bo, but up here many do. In the past ten years they have become a scourge to North Dakota, not the economic benefit the claim to be.


Ryan, Ne-bo and Plainsman bring up another good issue that needs to be addressed (and this was a stick in my craw last night before they posted. The issue is this: Many posts have strongly stated this message "You came, you broke the law, and for that you're a scummy little outfitter screwing it up for all of us just like ALL THOSE SCUMMY LITTLE OUTFITTERS THAT CAME BEFORE YOU".

I'm sorry but I don't liked but lumped in with others based on broad far reaching generalizations. I understand the quality issue around Outfitters and Guiding and believe me I have enough people coming to me in South Dakota from South Dakota Outfitters that have quality issues with their operation. I'd like to hear an intelligent response about SPECIFIC expereinces with poor quality Outfitters and guides and then you can tie me in with the hoodlums based on your knowledge of my and my behavior. I will confess this: Based on the Gackle experience I will no longer contract with Non-resident or absentee landwoners no landowners that actively farm and own/lease that ground themselves.

I find it iteresting that so many have made mention of having gone to my site and then stated I was guilty and that puts me in the "Bad outfitter class" but have failed to mention that UGUIDE is the only hunting organization that lets 2 youth hunt and stay completely FREE with each group. That is plainly stated on my rates pages among other discounts for Seniors, Military and Handicapped. 
http://www.uguidesdpheasants.com/pheasa ... -rates.cfm

I also have a references page that very accurately depicts what a UGUIDE experience is like. The majority ofthese were unsolicited.
http://www.uguidesdpheasants.com/pheasa ... rences.cfm


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

U-Guide,

Grow up and take your lumps and go home. I actually felt a little bit sorry for you, but not after these last comments. How damn dumb are you to think you can go to another state and set up a business without getting approval and or licenses etc. You keep saying I checked first but if you did you would not be in the trouble you are in. Look at your website for gods sake where does the money go. If I were to pay with pay pal would the money go to xyz outfitters hell no it goes in your account. You are not a travel agent, thats right lets see your a


> "commercially funded habitat organization that builds and sustains pheasant habitat in the Dakotas by channeling hunters proceeds directly to the local ranchers and farmers that are actively farming for pheasants" Give me a break!!!!!


 The only habitat you fund is your own pocket book.

Now you want to play a Larry Craig after you are caught and make up an excuse you were a travel agent. Chris we as legal outfitters in this state have a hard time make ourselves look good when illegal ones like you keep violating the law. Your guilty and you admitted it when you accepted the plea bargain.

Now you come on here and blow all this smoke about how you are such a great guy and a innovator.


> but have failed to mention that UGUIDE is the only hunting organization that lets 2 youth hunt and stay completely FREE with each group.


You know Chris this is the biggest bunch a crap you said so far. I am an outfitter and have been in this business way longer than you. I HAVE NEVER CHARGED ANY ONE UNDER 18 YEARS OF AGE..........................
I have 160 acres of CRP set aside for YOUTH HUNTING ONLY anyone can hunt there anytime its open to the public. HOW MANY ACRES DO YOU DO?????????????????????????????? I donate several youth hunts at my place every year, HOW MANY DO YOU DONATE???????????????

Go back to your website and cry to your followers you don't deserve a second chance in ND with an attitude like yours.



> There are no regulations for travel agents or license requirements in the dakotas or MN for travel agents


What business does your tax permit say you are in?????????????????????

In fact I think it's time to call my friends in SD and make sure all your people are paying there fair share


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

G/O, thanks for the rant but I see you have no answers for me. Only threats & insults.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Chris, No threats only promises :lol:

So how many acres do you set aside for public hunting?



> Outfitter" means a person that holds the person's business operation out to the public for hire or consideration; provides facilities or services for consideration; maintains, leases, or otherwise provides compensation for the use of land and which receives compensation from a third party for use of that land; or otherwise uses equipment or accommodations for consideration for the conduct of outdoor recreational activities, including hunting animals or birds and fishing on lakes, reservoirs, rivers, and streams.


Chris when the game and fish officers paid for the hunt with you who did they pay?

If I use a credit card to pay for my hunt online who's account does it go in?

Who books the hunts?

On another forum you tell of how you told the farmer he had to plant food plots. If you are a travel agent why are you telling him to plant food plots?


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> I actually felt a little bit sorry for you, but not after these last comments.


So did I but I'm not so sure now. I still think the law is a little screwy and maybe one sided to protect special interest but now that you have been advised of what you should have and what you still need to do, why don't you just comply instead of complaining?


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

> Bob, specific question: How could I be doing business today if I had done things differently? I do not live in your state nor have I even hunted of fished there before 2007. I cannot be a guide and therefore cannot get licensed as either guide or outfitter. You have to guide for 2 years before earning eligibility for outfitter.


Like I stated before if you would have checked the regulations prior to running your scam and put in the time and effort required you could be outfitting hunters in ND. Now that you have this incident on your record you may lose some of your hunting outfitting privileges in some other states as well through the Interstate Wildlife Violators Compact.

_*"Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact", an agreement whereby participating states share information about fish and game violators and honor each other's decision to deny licenses and permits.*_

The member states are; 
*Michigan, Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, New York, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and Wyoming.*

Bob


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

cwoparson said:


> > I actually felt a little bit sorry for you, but not after these last comments.
> 
> 
> So did I but I'm not so sure now. I still think the law is a little screwy and maybe one sided to protect special interest but now that you have been advised of what you should have and what you still need to do, why don't you just comply instead of complaining?


cwoparson, I am not looking for sympathy and I fully intend to comply 100% if at all possible or cease and desist if not. Please don't mistake complaining for attempting to defend my reputation. I have just as much a right to do that as others have right to attempt to smear me. Some forums have broader leinency on both of these than others.

I followed the advise of my attorney based on his interpretation of the law and I have to agree with him. The first sentence of the definition of Outfitter states this "An "Outfitter" means a person that holds the person's business operation out to the public for hire or consideration;".

Ladies and Gentleman, I am here to tell you that any person in ND that runs any type of business MEETS the definition of an Outfitter by ND Game & Fishes definition.

Now if that makes you think "that just simply can't be right?" well join the club but it does.

Here's a dictionary definition of "Outfitter"

2. outfitter - a shop that provides equipment for some specific purpose; "an outfitter provided everything needed for the safari"
shop, store - a mercantile establishment for the retail sale of goods or services; "he bought it at a shop on Cape Cod"

I think most that has been worth saying has been said on the subject unless anyone else has anything to add. I'm ready to move on except for 1 addtional post to respond to here.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Bob Kellam said:


> > Bob, specific question: How could I be doing business today if I had done things differently? I do not live in your state nor have I even hunted of fished there before 2007. I cannot be a guide and therefore cannot get licensed as either guide or outfitter. You have to guide for 2 years before earning eligibility for outfitter.
> 
> 
> Like I stated before if you would have checked the regulations prior to running your scam and put in the time and effort required you could be outfitting hunters in ND. Now that you have this incident on your record you may lose some of your hunting outfitting privileges in some other states as well through the Interstate Wildlife Violators Compact.
> ...


Bob, again, you did not answer my question and you just restated what you already stated before. If you have an answer to how what is possible now would have been possible then I am all ears.

As far as your other response it is a free country but you signature quote sums it up pretty well.

"_________________
In the end, our society will be defined not only by what we create, but by what we refuse to destroy. " And one could add "what we determine to invest the energy to destroy."


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

U- guide to answer the question you had for Bob, stating you didn't operate in ND so how could you get a license.

From the ND game and fish website


> Hunting Outfitter Eligibility Requirements:
> 
> 1. Must have held a hunting Guide license for 2 years OR operated as an exempt hunting outfitter for two year;


You SD experience would have qualified you without any problem what so ever. I know many out of state people who received licenses with less experience than yours. Bruce Burkett is very easy to work with.


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

g/o said:


> U- guide to answer the question you had for Bob, stating you didn't operate in ND so how could you get a license.
> 
> From the ND game and fish website
> 
> ...


OK, I appreciate that G/O and let's say I could be eligible for Outfitter I would have to book a ton of hunts and have multiple landowners camps to justify the $2000 annual Outiftter license. I like to keep costs down as much as possible and it would be very hard to make a go of it with that overhead every year. I don't think i could make it work but maybe, I don't know. I do plan to contact Bruce and ask some questions I probably should have asked a year ago but maybe didn't know to ask them. I hope to bring closure to this one way or another this week. All the insight has been helpful. I'm looking for insight rather than sympathy so thank you.

I have the ability to do anything ND Game & Fish wants technologically and even create a whole separate website just for ND. But I am not sure that that solves anything??


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## UGUIDE (Jan 12, 2007)

Gentleman, I appreciated the spirited conversation and insight of this and other threads.

My father has suffered a stoke and heart attack recently and is in the hospital and this topic is occupying more of my mental thoughts than I care for right now. I think the horse is dead anyway.

For now I concede guilty and ignorance in North Dakota. For that I had agreed to paid my dues. Going forward I pledge no ignorance and no less than 100% compliance to state and local laws.

I can safely say that I am in compliance with Departments of health, revenue, and Game & Fish in South Dakota but I cannot say the same for ND but will work to that end.

Regards,


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

U Got caught, but were warned (& on this site no less) 



> UGUIDE I see you are expanding your guide / outfitter company from SD into North Dakota.
> 
> Are you following the full laws and regulations for outfitters operating in North Dakota? Tests completed, outfitter license....
> 
> ...


http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... 99&start=0


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Drakekiller you started a thread in Pheasant Country on March 11 or 12th.

UGUIDE or his buddies had it removed. :******:

He could not confess on a site designed to sell his hunts. 

FM had a post too and I am sure the poster had his rights stripped away for witch hunting ...


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