# My pup-to snip or not to snip



## The Dak (Nov 23, 2003)

I am a very avid waterfowl hunter, but first time dog owner. I have a 5 month old registered black lab male and am on the verge of getting him snipped. I was going to get it done to reduce leg lifting and aggression, but he's actually not too aggressive towards people or other dogs. He has really good hunting instincts and seems to be fairly trainable (even for a first timer like me). I have no intention of breeding him, but would consider it once he's several years old.

I have heard that getting him snipped could turn him into a wuss, get his butt kicked by other dogs, and potentially lead to weight problems, but this is all from people whom have never neutered their dogs.

Does anybody have experience with dogs that have been snipped and some that haven't. If so, what's your impression?

Please post asap...his appt is Monday!

Thanks


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## usmarine0352 (Nov 26, 2005)

I would get him Neutered.

We have had 3 labs. And we neutered 2 of them. Never had a problem.

If you do NOT plan on breeding him.....then without a doubt, get him neutered.

:sniper:


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## luveyes (Jan 22, 2005)

I have had a couple male labs that have been neutered. One had a horible weight problem the other didnt. One was a wuss, the other not. Seems to be a luck of the draw type deal. At 5 mo it may be a little early to know exactly how aggressive a male will be given certain circumstances. I would do it again even given the weight problems, lack of temperment, and laziness of our 1 male. Sorry not much help.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

The Dak I have my males snipped. One problem that you eliminate is fights with other males while hunting. It has no effect on hunting drive. I guess their can be a weight problem . The only time my dogs have experienced it is when they were nuetered when they were older. I did it on an older dog to eliminate bladder infections. My dogs have as much drive as I can handle. Hydro is correct in saying leave the breeding to the pros.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Get him neutered but wait until hes two,the testosterone produced will enhance his muscular development.

The main reason to get him snipped is to minimize risk of testicular and prostate cancer. It will have no affect on his weight thats controlled by how much you feed him and exercise him, just like us.

Some males will fight some won't and that also just their personality, I've had acouple male labs that would of fought a bengal tiger over a piece of purina dog chow.

Most labs don't fight much unless they are provoked


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## The Dak (Nov 23, 2003)

Thanks guys, keep em coming.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Snip! I could tell you stories about labs in love that are only funny if you're not the owner. Had my GWP done at 7 months.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

I think earlier is better before they learn those behaviors that are associated with having knackers ( fightin', wandering, etc.)


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Bobm said:


> Get him neutered but wait until hes two,the testosterone produced will enhance his muscular development.


Sound advice.


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## Scott Schuchard (Nov 23, 2002)

Snip him but like bob said wait a bit so he builds mass. but deff. snip him


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

I'm at that point where I also have to make a decision. My golden retriever is now 8 months old. He just finished 6 weeks at hunting school. The professional dog trainer advised me not to have him neutered. He is always fenced in and what golden retriever ever fights?

I met another golden retriever owner at the kennels last Saturday. He asked, "What do want? A gelding or a stallion? Hmmm.

I guess for now I will not neuter. My old golden, Kirby, was neutered.


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

Git R Done

Snip, I have had my dogs done between 7-10 months.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> "What do you want? A gelding or a stallion?


Anybody who's been around a stud horse can answer that one. Nasty animals, bite, fight, kick, and generally raise hell. And wasn't Seabiscuit a gelding? Leave the puppy makers for the porfessional breeders. If you don't snip that boy's concentration is split between hunting and breeding. Period. Now which is the stronger instinct, hunting or the urge to merge? There are enouh problems in training without asking for more.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

> Anybody who's been around a stud horse can answer that one. Nasty animals, bite, fight, kick, and generally raise hell. And wasn't Seabiscuit a gelding? Leave the puppy makers for the porfessional breeders. If you don't snip that boy's concentration is split between hunting and breeding. Period. Now which is the stronger instinct, hunting or the urge to merge? There are enouh problems in training without asking for more.


Very well stated Dick! My boy got snipped at 6 months and he's just fine...fit and loves to hunt!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Look at the musculature of a stallion, compare it with a gelding.

This question depends on what you want out of the animal.

That same hormone testosterone that makes them act up sometimes also directly contributes to their muscular development.

By two years of age they are pretty well developed physically and the neuter will have the same calming affect at two that it will at 7 months or year.

Like everything in life there are pros and cons....

I like well developed stronger dogs.

I've had some golden retrievers in for training in years past that were fighters by the way, and darn good at it.
All retriever breeds have some tough cookies in them.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Not trying to beat this to death or start a fight, but I wonder about some of the characteristics that we think are desireable in a hunting dog. A well conditioned, well fed dog will last longer than any hunter while in the field. Snipped or not. He doesn't need a head like a channel cat to hunt well. A big coyote weighs 40 lbs. He'll out run, out fight, out hunt any dog half again his size. Just 40 lbs. Always had male dogs and never neutered them until Sam. Now I wonder what was I thinking? Getting off topic a bit, but why breed these dogs so big? To retrieve a 3lb bird? :roll:

Comparing neutering in horses: The old timer farmers here never put a stud in harness, they plowed the state with geldings and mares. Think about the effort of the horses breaking sod with a walking plow. Day after day for years. Those old guys were experts and they went with geldings to do the work.


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## markurxn (Aug 26, 2006)

I would definately snip him. It can help with all kinds of behaviorable problems and extend the life of your dog. Forget about breeding him. Leave that headache for the breeders.


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## mburgess (Aug 11, 2003)

I have a 30 pound 4 year old brit that I have not neutered. He has become a little territorial especially with other male dogs. After killing 5-6 shrubs in my yard he has been trained not to lift the leg on my shrubbery but it was a difficult task and continues to periodically challenge my alpha dominance. One of the reasons I didn't snip him was I have read some articles stating it caused brits coats to get shaggy, and I didn't want him to get fat. I don't completely buy into the idea that an overweight dog is purely from what you feed your dog and how much exercise it gets but it plays a major factor. Hormones also play a major role in weight gain. All I knew is I wanted an athlete for a hunting partner, and you don't see very many geldings win the Kentucky derby and there is a reason why. I can't say that my dog was difficult to train with his rocks intact, but I expect him to continue his entire life to periodically chanllenge my dominance and will have to live with it. If you want an elite, athletic dog you won't get what you could have snipping him, but you will have to put up with some little things that can get old after awhile. I'd think about it for awhile. I may stir some peoples feathers but I feel obedience in a duck blind is much more important than a bird dog that was meant to gobble up a lot of ground. So if waterfowl is your huckleberry snipping him might be the way to go. Personally, I wouldn't snip him if he was a bigger running pointing breed, but that is just me. After training one dog and helping with a couple others I'm a glutton for punishment and I've become a little more apt for the harder headed the better, but I'm probably the minority on this board. Bobm has given you some interesting advice though.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Its not a fight, its an interesting topic at least to me. :beer:

size is genetics,nothing you can do will change it.

musculature is testosterone.

While you are correct about any dog outperfoming a fat old hunter like me :wink: there is another consideration

Dogs like humans begin to lose a small percentage of muscle each year as they age. When your male dog is young it won't matter one bit but..

IF you want a dog to be its best as far into old age as possible then the little bit of additional muscle gain is worth it at least to me.

They used geldings because they are easier to handle, not because they were stronger.

Dick,

Boy are you ever correct about size of hunting dogs they are way too big in my opinion. I just took in a DK german shorhair ( a german shorthair from germany) and he is the size of a small pony. DK's are bred as multipurpose birds, fur and varmint eradication. So they are bred to be tough and strong, I have mixed emotions about the dog. On the one hand hes a close hunting obedient dog but on the other hes cat sharp as hell so I'l really have to be careful with him around farm cat. Around our bull dog also, those two are going to clash and I'm a little worried about that.

I think I prefer littler sissy type dogs, this guy can drag me done the road and I'm no little person.

The other interesting thing about him is how fast he is he was playing with my english pointers and I thought they were fast he can run them down at will.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Good topic and good points from everybody. Bob, I sent you an email on a different subject, --- need advice.


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## Britman (Dec 18, 2002)

mburgess said:


> continues to periodically challenge my alpha dominance. but I expect him to continue his entire life to periodically chanllenge my dominance and will have to live with it.


Mike - this has nothing to do with your dog keeping his rocks, it is because he is a Brit, they're known for this behavior :lol:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Seems to me that the females of all species are good hunters even though they are a little low on testosterone. My dog was snipped at a young age and turned out to be a pretty darn good family pet and hunter. He never backed down from a good rumble when he was in his prime but now is the nicest dog on the Culligan man's route! Mr. Mellow, but in the field he was pretty dam good! If your dog is snipped and isn't a great hunter I doubt very much it was the snipping but this is only one man's opinion. So much more goes into having a great dog than a little testosterone.


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## Mark Hays (Feb 8, 2006)

I have lived with Labs since I was able to walk and run Labs competitively now. If a male is not exceptional he should be neutered, same with female. I would not neuter a male before he reached one year old.

Good to see all the excellent advice. :beer:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

My new pup Jay just went to the vet to get snipped this morning. We told him he was going to "camp" but he will soon find out not all "camps" are the same!


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## aztec (Oct 27, 2005)

It all depends on what you want out of your dog and how you will be handling and training him. If the dog is going to be kenneled and let in the house only when supervised and trained under controlled circumstances - in other words- if you are going to keep control of him - then there is not a lot of reason to snip. If however, you plan to let the dog have the run of the yard/farm/house, whatever, at will and to do as he pleases including finding romance - then snip.

In my mind there is no doubt that it is better for the dog physically to not be snipped. Not every dog will become overweight and lazy but clearly some do so why tkae the chance if it is not necessary.

You may not think that you want to breed him but if this dog turns out to be a great one you might want to breed to the right female and keep a pup.

Ultimately, it becomes an individual decision based on the circumstances under which the dog will handled. so take an honest look at what your plans are for him and decide for yourself what is best.

On the size issue - the only thing that really counts is the size of his heart. There is alot of macho baloney out there about 100 lb labs - most of whom I have seen are at least 20 pounds overweight which will hurt a dog's performance more than anything. Keep in mind that the breed standard for males is 65 to 80 lbs and 55 to 70 for females. For my money, in the blind or boat give me a 70 lb lab with the heart of a lion when the birds fall over a 100 lb pony masquerading as a labrador. retriever.


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