# Pistols and Mountain Lions



## siouxhockey (Oct 23, 2007)

Does anyone carry a pistol while bow hunting? The amount of time I bowhunt out west has increased greatly this last year and will go up considerably this upcoming season. The areas I'm most familiar with are in McKenzie County and I believe most of the cats shot in zone 1 were taken in McKenzie County.

I plan to carry a pistol with next season and was just wondering what you guys carry? Also, where do you keep it? I'd like to keep it front and center just in case I only have one arm to grab it with. Thanks for any and all input.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I carry my glock 40 with a tac light. The reason I carry this gun is because I am very familiar with it, it has decent knock down, and I could take the bugger apart with one arm and no eyes! :lol:

Honestly, the reason I carry mine is because I have seen cats out west, and I have had one track me! It walked over my tracks in the mud less then 15 min after I walked down the trail!

As for a holster, I carry it in a tac holster on my right leg, as it doesn't interfear with a pack or drawing a bow.

IMO screaming and yelling is going to do more then the gun, however if I get the chance I am going to be blazing at one!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

I gots five arrows in my quiver says I dont need no pistol.

Lol, bunch of bowhunters running around scared of their own shadow. Do any of you sprint back to the truck from your stand when it gets dark? Or are you already in the cab as the sun sets? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Im honestly more afraid of getting shot in the dark by some scared bowhunter with his hand cannon than I am of any putty tat.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Boone... I think I have told you the stories.... You know why I really carry mine!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

hunt4P&Y said:


> Boone... I think I have told you the stories.... You know why I really carry mine!


Ya, but for that.......uhhhh "cat"......you should just get some damn claymores.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

barebackjack said:


> hunt4P&Y said:
> 
> 
> > Boone... I think I have told you the stories.... You know why I really carry mine!
> ...


Yeah no SH t


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## siouxhockey (Oct 23, 2007)

Apparently you've got bigger stones than me. The 170 pound male shot southeast of Watford City last year is reason enough for me to start carrying one.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

I think alot of the fear is really irrational. I mean there's just been sooooo many cat attacks on humans here. Cats here have a healthy fear of humans, as it should be. Now California, where they don't get shot at, its a different story. Heck, they have coyotes carrying away small pets in broad daylight. Whats that tell you?

Personally I hope to hell I come across a kitty with my bow. Now THAT would be a rush, not to mention a trophy.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

siouxhockey said:


> Apparently you've got bigger stones than me. The 170 pound male shot southeast of Watford City last year is reason enough for me to start carrying one.


No he is around 170 LBs, but walks on two legs and thinks he own's the country!


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## siouxhockey (Oct 23, 2007)

I guess my approach is just different than yours. I look at it and say why take a chance? I'll gladly strap an extra five pounds to my waist in case something were to ever happen. I'm not saying that me bowhunting the badlands means I'll have mountain lions stalking me at all times but like I said: Why take the chance? If it came down to a fight between myself and a big old cat at sunset, I wouldn't put money on me. I'd give it to the wild animal that drags down animals by the throat so it can eat them.

I hope I see a cat while I'm out there, and hopefully it's about thirty yards away looking the other direction; I'd gladly slay one with my bow. I don't think I'm fast enough to nock a second arrow if the first one doesn't find its mark, but I am fast enough to pull a pistol out and let some lead fly before it got to me. You may consider that fear irrational but I'd rather be safe than sorry in this situation.

Now back to the topic: Glock 40 holstered on the right leg. Anyone else?


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

This will be my first year bow hunting. I haven't decided between my .357 and my 1911, but I'll probably have one or the other when I go out west. I've also got a KelTec PF9... there's almost no point in _not_ carrying something that small.

The plus side to the revolver is that, in my case, it's got a longer sight axis, but the thing that applies to every revolver is that if there were a cat (or rapist, for the ladies) on top of you, it will still go "bang" with it pressed right up against the target.

I'm pretty realistic about my chances of being attacked by a cat, and I know that I've always got my knife and sticks with razor blades on the ends (I think I borrowed that from somebody on here, but I can't remember who). However, I'd rather not have my official backup plan be for it to get within arm's reach, and I'll never notice the extra couple of pounds. It's no real inconvenience, and it'll make me feel better.

I'm leaning toward the .357 on my right hip... it can't hurt.


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## siouxhockey (Oct 23, 2007)

By .357 are you referring to a .357 Mag or Sig? You reference a revolver so I'm assuming Mag. As of right now I'll be carrying a Glock 32 in .357 Sig unless I decide to carry something tiny like a Ruger LCP.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I've bowhunted out in the Badlands since the early 80's and have never seen a lion or even a track. So being I see no real need to add the weight of a bellygun to my load. Also to me, carrying a handgun while bowhunting out in the Badlands somehow taints the experience. Add the issue of the impossible to control scent of steel, gun cleaning solvent, oil, and powder residue...

Believe me, I've carried a bellygun professionally for 30 years and hitting a target, let alone something as mobile as cougar, under duress is darn tough even if a guy is trained...

I'm with BBJ on this one. if I can see the critter and figure I need to discourage it, I can hit it with my recurve a darn sight faster than I can set down or god forbid, drop my bow, draw my 629, take a solid two hand hold, and fire.

If you don't see the cat & it decides to eat you, I don't think the bellygun will help much...

If you figure you have to carry a bellygun for your peace of mind, as far as I'm concerned protection from four footed critters starts at the 41 Magnum and goes up from there. I prefer a 4 or 6 inch DA 44 magnum such as the S&W 629 or Ruger Redhawk, carried crossdraw in a Bianchi Model 111 Cyclone holster. Second choice would be a standard Ruger Blackhawk either 4-5/8" or 5.5", same calibers in the same rig...

Unless it's all you own and you maintain it meticulously, leave the autos at home. Mr. Murphy purely loves complicated weapons when the chips are down in the field...


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

siouxhockey said:


> By .357 are you referring to a .357 Mag or Sig? You reference a revolver so I'm assuming Mag. As of right now I'll be carrying a Glock 32 in .357 Sig unless I decide to carry something tiny like a Ruger LCP.


Yeah, I meant mag. If you were thinking about buying a smaller pistol for convenience (I'm under the impression you don't already have the LCP), I'd probably get the biggest snubbie revolver you felt like carrying. Even if you wanted to keep it really small, these aren't bears we're talking about here. I can't imagine .38 not doing the job (plus, you've also got a knife, and sticks with razor blades). I'm not much one for new calibers, but that SP101 in .327 Federal Magnum looks pretty cool.

As a corollary to what NDT said about the Blackhawk: I think a single-action would be a PITA, unless it's one where the cylinder swings out like a double-action, or the whole thing breaks open like an old Schofield. SA's aren't my bag, but I believe both are pretty rare. Somebody correct me, if I'm wrong. (Actually, now that I'm thinking about it... I kind of dig the idea of a repro Schofield)

Since the whole cylinder counts as the chamber, in ND, you have to unload the whole thing each time you get in and out of the truck. It's not a huge deal if you're going to sit in a ground blind all day, but if you're driving from hill to hill, climbing to the top and glassing, you'll be in and out of the truck quite a few times.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

NDTerminator said:


> I've bowhunted out in the Badlands since the early 80's and have never seen a lion or even a track. So being I see no real need to add the weight of a bellygun to my load. Also to me, carrying a handgun while bowhunting out in the Badlands somehow taints the experience.
> 
> Believe me, I've carried a bellygun professionally for 30 years and hitting a target, let alone something as mobile as cougar, under duress is darn tough even if a guy is trained...
> 
> ...


**Note, I tote the 44 when further out west in bear country.... And yes we have had to use them in the past.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Omegax, what the Blackhawk brings to the table is KISS simple design and rock solid reliability. That far outweighs any PITA factor in regard to loading & unloading.

If this really is an issue, I would suggest anyone who figures they need ND cat protection of the bellygun sort simply go get a CC permit so as to eliminate the need to load & unload in the truck. It's not like it's remotely difficult to get one...

BTW, before carrying a handgun while bowhunting in the field, try this. When you are off for a couple days, strap one on in the morning when you get up and carry it around the home while working or doing whenever for a couple days. No fair taking it off when it begins to bug you, gets in the way, or when you hit the can, as you are simulating defensive carry and you won't have it when you "need" it.

Now imagine adding another 4 or 5 days of climbing & fiddling around out in the Breaks with bow & a pack. This will give some idea of the PITA factor involved of carrying a bellygun all the time...


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

I have a Utah permit. I was under the impression that when you're out hunting, even permit holders have to unload it in the truck. Am I wrong? That would be great!

I certainly didn't mean to contradict you that the Redhawk is a good choice. I was just throwing out something else to think about.

It's a great idea to give it a test run, even if you're dead-set on carrying a pistol. You might find out that that the shoulder rig you were planning to use gets in the way of your pack too badly, etc. I carried my revolver last year when I went out with my buddy on his elk hunt. What I found out was that my hip holster gets a little warm on my leg, but, over all, it wasn't too bad, as long as I was wearing a good belt. I was carrying a big pack, but I'll probably test it out again with a bow in my hands. We'll see what I figure out.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

NDTerminator said:


> BTW, before carrying a handgun while bowhunting in the field, try this. When you are off for a couple days, strap one on in the morning when you get up and carry it around the home while working or doing whenever for a couple days. No fair taking it off when it begins to bug you, gets in the way, or when you hit the can, as you are simulating defensive carry and you won't have it when you "need" it.
> 
> Now imagine adding another 4 or 5 days of climbing & fiddling around out in the Breaks with bow & a pack. This will give some idea of the PITA factor involved of carrying a bellygun all the time...


 :beer: :thumb:

Someone above made the comment "whats an extra couple pounds".......

The answer.......quite a bit out there.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Even better is a wilson combat on my ankle every day.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Absolutely no offense taken Omega, just clarifying what I meant...

I'm telling you guys, I carry a Glock 23 in CQC Serpa crossdraw for anywhere from 8-10 hours a day at least 5 days a week. It's about as light a working gun as I've ever carried, the Serpa is a superbly comfortable holster, and by the end of the day I can't wait to take the damn thing off.

The PITA factor is such that I removed the arms from my office chair just so I can work at my desk comfortably while carrying.

My 6" 629 probably weighs twice as much, is far more bulky, and I wouldn't trust my safety in regard to stuff like cats or bears to anything lesser. It's livable by itself in the field but the only way I'd carry it bowhunting is if I had a very real & demonstratable risk like going into known big bear country or an area with a history of cat incidents.

Understand I'm not dead set against bellyguns. I own several and enjoy shooting & hunting with them. I carry either the above mentioned issue Glock or a full sized Kimber 45 Auto every working day and quite often when off duty, and have done so for decades. They have their place, I just share Matthew Quigley's view of them.

In my experience the risk of cat attack is so remote out in the Badlands that it just isn't worth the effort...


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## stolenbase (Aug 23, 2003)

Personally, I feel carrying a handgun while bowhunting takes the bowhunting out of bowhunting. Hypathetically speaking...if something WERE to ever happen to me when I was bowhunting and I could not handle it with my bow I probably should not have been hunting with one in the first place. Plus, where is the adrenaline rush if you know you've always got a "backup plan" if you need it.


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## duckslyr (Nov 27, 2008)

I bowhunted in Idaho for 4 years and never carried a sidearm. i am pretty sure you dont have anything to worry about around here. in idaho we had black bears, brown bears, big ole kitty cats, wolves and wolverines. the mountain lions around ND are so few and far between i wouldnt carry the extra weight.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The chances of ever needing it are slim, but they sell car insurance, health insurance, nursing home insurance, for a reason. If you study evolution and understand how it works you will understand that the gene pool is missing the kind that think "what's the chances, and why do I need to bother". The chances may be 1/10,000, but you will have to decide.

I carry three different handguns depending on how far I will walk that day. One never knows how far you will walk when you leave in the morning, but it works out in most cases.

No matter which handgun I carry my first round is always birdshot. I have more problems with rattlesnakes than anything else. My nephew has been hit twice in the past two years. He has been wearing snake proof boots. The last snake must have been slightly uphill because he came within 1/2 inch of the top of his boot. He must have more snakes in the area he hunts than I do. I did have to shoot one once when crossing a fence. I didn't see him in the grass and he was between my feet with one foot on each side of the fence when he rattled.

One of my son's has a friend in Montana that had a cougar sneaking on him in his blind. He stood up and waved his arms when it was at 20 yards, and it came for him instead of running. He did kill it with his bow.

Chances are slim, but the guys who laugh at you will perhaps change their mind when the cat takes a second mouthful of their ***.  It should only take away from the archery hunting experience if you misuse your sidearm. Otherwise it's all in your mind. Synthetic boots don't take away from the experience do they, or do you guys wear moccasins?


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

> **Note, I tote the 44 when further out west in bear country.... And yes we have had to use them in the past.


Ya were you at Bear country USA in the black hills?? Oh man that just made my day..


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

GooseBuster3 said:


> > **Note, I tote the 44 when further out west in bear country.... And yes we have had to use them in the past.
> 
> 
> Ya were you at Bear country USA in the black hills?? Oh man that just made my day..


Glad that made your day. oke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm kind of an old geezer and forget things. I was looking at this thread and just remembered those bikers on the Mah de hey trail. I think a guy stopped to help a lady with a flat tire and they had a mountain lion come after both of them. They threw rocks and held their bicycles up in front of themselves as a shield as they retreated something like a mile and a half. I was surprised that a mountain lion would have the guts to follow them that far. As I understand the story he rushed them a number of times, but they pelted him with stones and shoved the bikes in his face.

I think a broadhead would have discouraged him more than a bicycle. 

Edit: I run across this on The Drudge Report minutes ago.

Mother fought off cougar to save toddler from attack

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columb ... -shot.html


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Do I carry one? Yes.

Why? Because I can, it's my choice. Plainsman and I started hunting the badlands in 1980 and although I can say that I have not needed a handgun while hunting out there, I'd rather have it with me and not need it, than need it and not have it.

If you don't want to carry one that's your choice. But all you guys insinuating that a bowhunter is foolish for carrying, are just being, well, foolish.

There is a reason that the Game & Fish changed the regulations to allow carrying a handgun while bowhunting, even they see that there may be a need.

Carry if you want, don't if you don't want. But don't piss on my chioce to carry.

huntin1


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

huntin1 said:


> There is a reason that the Game & Fish changed the regulations to allow carrying a handgun while bowhunting, even they see that there may be a need.


Actually, the legislature changed the regulation, GNF was against the bill to allow handguns while bowhunting.

I guess now that it's changed do whatever you want to. I never saw a need to carry a pistol before and probably still won't, but that's my choice.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I've hunted the badlands since the mid "80's" and have never felt the need to carry a handgun. Considering that the Badlands are filled with rattlesnakes yet in 24 years of hunting I have only encountered 3 live ones, I'm thinking my chances of running into a cat are pretty slim. I'm as confident with bow in hand as a gun and if one gets you from behind chances are the gun isn't gonna do you any good either. I might have to start keeping one eye open during my midday nap though.



> I was under the impression that when you're out hunting, even permit holders have to unload it in the truck


 Once my handgun gets back to the truck it goes under the seat where, once concealed ,it is then classified as my CCW and legal.

Frankly if you can't hit a cat with a six shooter before he gets to you a DA with a swing out cylinder isn't gonna help much.

I think many of the reported "stalkings" are cases of a cat going the same direction or using the same trail as the person, or curiosity on the part of the cat. I'm not saying it doesn't happen just that often it is misinterpreted. I have carried a hangun up and down the buttes out there during the gun season and can tell you I'm not gonna carry one unless I have to.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Concur, DS2. Like you, after better than 20 years I can count the number of live snakes I've encountered on one hand and I've yet had to do anything other than just walk around them. Given the number of snakes compared to the number of cats out there, the chances of running into a cat would be god alone how many times less?...

When I first started hunting the Badlands I was very concerned of snakes. I spent the first couple years clomping around out there in heavy boots & leggings. I spent more time watching the ground for snakes than I did with my eyes up looking for game.

After a couple years without even seeing a live snake, I started wearing light hikers and later even lighter stalking boots, and quit worrying about it...


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