# The greatest shotgun ever



## Robert A. Langager

I just want to start things off by saying that the greatest shotgun EVER is the Remington 870 Wingmaster. Any comments?


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## Eric Hustad

I have actually really come to love my benelli nova. You can pull it apart and clean it two minutes. Has been reliable and I loving going back to a pump


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## KEN W

I agree with both of you.I owned an 870 for 25 years and then decided to get an auto in my old age.So I now have a Benelli.


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## Eric Hustad

i think your right Ken. I have never heard anything bad about either gun. I did have a browning BPS and I liked the feel, but it was too heavy and you didn't dare pull it apart in the field because a dozen pieces would fall out.


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## Austin Bachmeier

:grin:
Your gonna have to guess my opinion on this one.


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## Eric Hustad

Let me guess.....Mossberg???


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## nodakoutdoors.com

I can't get enough of my Daisy air BB gun. I spent hours patterning it, went out to the field and was dropping em at 50 yards with the patternmaster choke.

Ammo is cheap too. :grin:


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## Robert A. Langager

Distant runners up would have to be as follows:

Winchester Model 12
Browning A-5
Ithaca Model 37
Remington 1100
and.......
Daisy Red Ryder, I hear they pattern very consitently.


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## Doug Panchot

You guys forgot to mention Browning Gold Hunter!! Heck it has taken 2 years for the 12 to function to perfection, and only 1 for the 10. Doug


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## GooseBuster3

You guys probaly wont agree with me but I have had the worst luck with Nova sorry to say. I have had so many probalems with it. and I dont know why. From choke tubes to expanding in my barrel so I cant get them out to the firing pin not working. I have cleaned it after ever hunt, and takin really good care of it. But I think it is time for a new gun. I did shoot a tegauge for one waterfowl season and loved it! But i went outn and bought the nova so i could be more versitile, but I am goin to switch bach to the SP-10 or Browing Bps pump,


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## hunt4life

I hunted with a Remington 870 Wingmaster for 15 years without a jam or any other problem. I then won a Browning BPS at a banquet and have been using it for about 12 years. I liked the 870 better and plan to go back. I just thought I should give the BPS a fair chance.

I was wondering about the Nova, but from the sound ot it, I think I'll stick with the 870. It was perfection in the goose blind.


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## ASTRO

I like my 11-87. I had a sporting clays tourney last weekend with highs around 10 and it never gave me a problem.

ASTRO


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## Robert A. Langager

My gun of choice now is an 11-87 too. I have never had a problem with it in ten years until last fall when we had 1000 of snow geese with 15 yards and it wouldn't cyle a new shell. Man, that was so lame!


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## Matt Jones

For reliability the 870 is hard to beat. A lot of guys might give a nod to the model-12 and that's a tough, both are great guns. Perhaps we'll have to let time tell, the mod 12 is still as much sought after today as when it came. I guess the same could be said for the 870 as well...

Best auto of all time is the A-5, hands down. I'm looking to buy an SBE so I'll have to wait to tell. You look at the browning and it was a flawless performer for a hundred years. Once the benelli does that I'll tip my hat, but for now A-5 is still number one.

Doug, I have one of the BGH 3.5's when they were still in the testing period for them and they are junk. They might be good guns nowadays but they were junk when they first came out.


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## Doug Panchot

Matt, I have the 3" model the second year they came out. It worked flawless this last fall. I have heard that the older model 3 1/2" had some major problems. The BGH 10 had one flaw and it was the incompentent owner. I didn't take the rings out and clean the carbon from behind them, so the gun wouldn't cycle. I got that one figured out and haven't had a problem with it since.

Robert, what did you turn too when the old 11-87 failed you? Say it, yes a BGH! Just kidding, every gun has those days. Did you ever figure out what happened with that? Doug


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## Robert A. Langager

Yes, I admit that I had to fall back on that BGH thing. It did feel nice but I didn't like the shell feeder. It would cut into your thumb when you loaded the magazine with that nice sharp "v" shaped cut-out. I don't know what happened to the 11-87 that day. It has worked fine ever since. Just cursed I guess. That's the closest I had ever been to that many birds in my life, until the next morning, when we scored 16 birds on 4 shells (somebody's Nova jammed....again) I know that a 2 sided shotgun case in my future so I can fly with my Wingmaster too and keep those icky Browing germs off of my hands. However, I do own a very nice Belgian made stainless High-Power 9mm. I like that particular Browning quite well, but my shotguns will always be Remingtons, because they are cool and have more knockdown than Hustad's Daisy Red Ryder, which, I hear, patterns quite well.


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## Austin Bachmeier

Chris, what kinda pattern density you gettin' with that thing in the 30" circle at 40? :wink:


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## bioman

The Remington 870 pump is an awesome gun, and absolute indelible part of waterfowl hunting. Every youngster should have the opportunity to learn from one, but, my Remington 11-87 is the most forgiving gun I have ever shot. I have never had a jam and there is nothing like squeezing three fast ones :grin:.


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## hunt4life

I was wondering if anbody out there shoots a double barrel? I know they are used more for skeet and upland hunting, but I've always used the 870 or BPS on waterfowl.

I've got someone wanting to sell me Browning Citori.


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## redlabel

I like doubles and have shot nothing else for about 25 years, ever since I found out I was left eye dominant even though I am strictly right handed in everything else.

My first was a Ruger Red Label in 20 gauge for pheasant hunting when living in Dickinson. Then to a Ruger 12 when I moved back to waterfowl country in 1987. I have a Citori that shoots up to 3 1/2 but went back to the Ruger because I shoot it so well and I realized that you don't need more than 3"

With most of our hunting I can only think of a few times I thought I needed a third shot so I am perfectly content to shoot doubles. In fact last year I scored a triple on giant honkers with my double. I let the first one land, got two coming in and was able to reload in time to get the first one as he was flying away. It was the perfect situation that comes along once in a while, but it sure was fun.

The doubles don't jam, are easy to check if loaded, and you have the choice of two chokes. Some will disagree of course, but it's the gun for me.


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## Fetch

I'm a loyal 870 person - Have shot a Mossberg 835 when 3 1/2 in 1st came out - I had to try em - A little floppy but never failed (my son still has it) Mossberg still has the best looking camo (that shadowgrass looks better than all the others) ???

But even my 1st & only BB gun was a daisy pump - So I'd pump a spaghetti auto (single shot) if I had one 

I also like short barrels


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## hunt4life

Thanks Redlabel,

I agree with you. I have shot a lot of geese over the years and I haven't had too many good third shots. I have taken quite a few, but they weren't the best shots to take.

The triple is a special thing. I guess you just have to be quick on the reload if you're going to get it with a double.


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## redlabel

The triple was memorable, but it had more to do with circumstances than anything else.

The geese came in perfectly and would have all landed in the decoys if I had stayed down. The first two were like stationary targets hanging in the air, and the third had landed in front of me and decided to fly past me rather than away from me. I have a pop-up blind so opening it was just a matter of stepping on the foot bar and I stood up to reload after shooting the first two. It will be always be great after hunt talk and will hlep make up for all the days of little or no shooting.

I do believe though, that shooting a double has made me really concentrate on the first shot, knowing there is only one more.

I remember a few years ago having two roosters flush and snap shooting the first, missing, and then dropping the second. When I swung back on the first he was flying away in a straight line shoulder height and I was dead on him and when I squeezed the trigger there were no more shots. 
No one could have missed that shot and I had to just watch him fly away.

But then, thats why we call it hunting isn't it.


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## hunt4life

You said it!

My father had me start hunting with a single shot, to help make the point of 'making the first shot count,' as well as safety. I still believe the first shot is the important one. Heck, if I get three birds each time I have to quit hunting sooner!

The triples that I've had on upland birds and waterfowl were usually because of circumstances as well. In most cases there was a delay between birds which would have allowed me to reload, if I was quick about it.

I had a triple last spring on geese that I snuck up on that I probably wouldn't have had with a double barrel. I got up pretty close to them in a field and something got them to fly over me very low. I took three shots and got three geese. It is a great thing.

I like the feel of the over/under though, and I think I need to have it.


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## headhunter

I'd have to agree pretty much with Matt. Auto 5 hands down.....but the 
1100 Remington /1187 are close behind as of the last 20 years or so.. and of course the 870 and model 12 are neck and neck . I have one of each of these guns right now except I traded my 1100. I STILL take the 870 if I want to do some serious hunting. Headhunter :beer:


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## Gooser1

I gotta say that the Nova is the way to go. Its an all around awsome gun. Its a goose killer and it can be cleaned in a matter of seconds.


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## Dano2

I've shot alot of ducks in my younger days with my grandpas old
Remington 20 gauge.
sold that to my bro
and bought my grandpas old remington model 11, 12 gauge
from my other brother.
still kicks em out as fast as you can pull the trigger.
just keep it clean, thats all :sniper:


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## DAKOTAKID

Im thinking of buying an over and under shotgun 12 guage with removable chokes. but I dont want to spend more than 600 dollars I found one called FAUSTI and another called EEA both look like really nice guns. Can anybody give me some feed back on these guns or should i keep looking around?


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## Dog Tired

Years ago SKB reverse engineered the Rem 870 and did a wonderful job. It had a light alloy reciever with enough depth that a shell accidently released from the magazine wouldn't jam between the bolt and shell carrier. You could depress the release and cycle the action to clear it and not have to use a knife blade to return the now ruined shell to the magazine. The bolt release also had a face to press on with your finger, it wasn't just a flat serated blade. It also had a coil spring activated spent shell ejector instead of Remingtons flat spring, no doubt there were other niceties that escaped my eye. All in all a beautifly machined gun which operated flawlessly, but didn't sell because it was Japanese, wish I'd kept mine.

Also because of old hand injuries I can't shoot 3" shells in an 870/12, the heavier recoil causes the thick taper in the rear portion of the trigger guard to give me a very painful impact bone bruise on the back of my right hand middle finger. Something the reduced recoil of my current 1187 prevents. Do I remember pictures of guys, in goose blinds, with a piece of foam tied to the back of the 870's trigger guard?


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## MRN

DK
Really, don't waste your $$$ on a Fausti or EAA O/U.
My first suggestion is to keep your eyes open for a used Beretta or Citori. Look for dinged wood, but a perfect bore, clean trigger, and solid barrel action mating. If you want something new, look into Lanber - been getting good press since they first came out several years ago. You can go somewhere like http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ to see what prices they are asking for the various models (dowload the catalog). Not much more $$ than an EAA (have them too I believe)

As for preferences, I still like the Beretta and Benelli autos. The 303/39# are great for taming recoil, but the SBE allows a long magazine tube extention for spring snow geese. 3rd shot ineffective? Not if you have 4 more follow up shots..... Gotta do your best to save an eco-system.

M.


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## Ron Gilmore

Just a thought on best gun is like saying ford are better than dodge or chevy better than ford etc...
I have and use a 11-87 Rem, Berreta 390st, 5-Mod 12's and 870 Rem, I have found that all performed well and have there place but I would pick my Berreta if I could only have one. This gun fits me the best so I shot it better.When finding a gun for my daughter we chose a Mossberg because it fit her the best. Most guns today are built to last and funtion without problems if cared for. So shot what you like and shot if often.


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## Dino

Hardwaterman, I am with you. I have shot an 870, 1187, Franchi, and finally a Beretta 390. My Beretta 390 is the best by far. 870s jam, 1187s jam, I couldnt hit with a Franchi and it jammed occasionally. My 390, to the best of my estimation, is approaching 8000 rounds and has yet to jam. I clean it, but not as often as I should, mebbe 2 times per hunting season. Usually it is pretty bad when I break it down and pull it all apart. I use it for trap, upland, waterfowl and deer. For deer I put a Hastings slug barrel on it. I am a firm believer in gun fit and confidence. It really doesnt matter which flavor it is, if it fits you and you have confidence while shooting it, that is the gun for you. My cousin Shane is a perfect example. He is always switching guns and it shows. I cant tell you how many times while out with him hunting roos, I hear [email protected]#$%! I chuckle every time. Then he switches guns for some reason and the same thing happens. The other thing I believe in is joining a trap league. It took me from being a barely average shooter to a good shooter (although I still miss my share), and gave me a ton of confidence. Sorry, off topic a little.

Something I have often thought about, many police officers and sheriff deputies carry pumps in their cars. If your life was on the line, what gun would you want in your hands? I would undoubtedly want my Beretta 390. My 870 would jam about 1 in 10 times, not good odds with my life on the line.


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## grandpa

If the advice of a retiring gunsmith is any good---I have close to 20,000 rounds through a 7 year old SBE with only one little break down. Most of those rounds were at trap--skeet--sporting clays. In my years of working on guns-- I have found it the most easy to cean and work on.

If you are still set on an o/u after all the replies--I would say weatherby( made by SKB) or an SKB. I spent a year as Weatherby's Shotgunsmith 10 years ago--and realy like the gun. Find a good used on to stay in your price range.

Still say a grand for a SBE is the best BANG for the $$.


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## grandpa

M & SBE shooters

Did you guys know the sbe holds 4 shells without extension ?


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## Dino

grandpa, 
I am just curious as to your thoughts on a 390? I have purely anecdotal evidence of SBEs, but I have seen a few with problems. Not probably enough of a sampling to be scientifically accurate however.


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## MRN

grandpa,

Are you talking about removing the plug or the wierd carrier trick?
Several years ago I saw a dude somehow manage to get the 4th shell in an SBE to sit upon the carrier. I though this had been "fixed" as I can't seem to do it with my SBE. Please share if you know how.

M.


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## grandpa

Dino

I have shot thousands of rounds wirh friends that were shooting 390's for trap skeet and sporting clays---that had no real problems ( I did their cleaning)---the gas system does get dirty!!
I have never been hunting around one though.

M

Yes-- it's the lifter or carrier trick. Have been useing it for years and have only a couple of jams from doing it. Sometimes I carry my gun on my shoulder ( trigger up ) and swing it to shoot to quick that the shell on the lifter doesn't have time to fall back in place. Just to fast in my old age.
It would be hard to explain in a post---SBE user's send me a PM (not use to doing this yet) so we can talk over the phone with the gun and some dummey's (shells) in your hand.

Besides!!!!! Don't know this might sit with some members!!


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## Austin Bachmeier

Folks, its easy, but you must have a gun stamped Heckler and Koch. All you need to do is load the mag, slowly pull the bolt back to where there is enough room to slide a shell onto the carrier, slide one into the chamber, and shut the bolt. Take the gun and slowly pull the bolt back a few times just to learn how far it will go before the carrier engages. BenelliUSA switched this as soon as they began selling them. By the way I am in no way responsible for you getting your *** in trouble if you do this while out hunting. It is a very good feature for Snow's, and all other game not requiring a plug. Do it out hunting, and a game warden will hear 4 shots, you'll be SOL. You have been warned! :sniper:


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## Qwack

I used an 870 for years and it was good to me. Then I switched to an 11-87 and it was also good to me but jammed once in a while. Picked up a BGH 10 gauge. I like the gun but I too get my thumb caught under the shell lifter once in a while. Also, it turns into a single shot if it is below zero. And, it starts to rust when the weatherman forecasts rain.

What it all comes down to for me:

Benelli SBE--performance worth the price.


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## gandergrinder

Qwack,
When they sell you a Benelli do they implant a chip in your brain that controls your thoughts. You have been brainwashed my friend.

GG


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## GooseBuster3

I will never purchase a Benilli ever again!! piece of **** if you ask me.


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## Qwack

MUST KILL HINDERGRINDER. MUST KILL HINDERGRINDER. MUST KILL HINDERGRINDER. MUST KILL HINDERGRINDER. MUST KILL HINDERGRINDER. MUST KILL HINDERGRINDER. . . . .


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## Dan Bueide

Haven't shot the Nova enough to form an opinion, but for semi's, anything other than big ben is just a wannabe (right drakekiller?). Have the old, low post SBE, which never ceases to amaze me when I clean it - how can an auto still fire when there's a full one acre of schmeg inside during wet, below freezing conditions? Don't like the low post, but works fine for waterfowling. The Super 90 is the finest upland gun I've shot, but sure wish they'd do the 20 in a wood stock. Took me a while to get used to the low post, but now shoot the monte 20 for upland, and it's a dream. Never again carry a 12 for upland - don't need it and I'm getting way too old and fat to carry the extra gun and shell weight. I've owned a bunch of autos, and you can scream at me 'till you're blue in the face, but it's only Benelli's for me.


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## adokken

I shoot a Mossberg Semi auto for the simple reason I can find the damned safe when I get exited. Had a Beretta but would come crawling out of the goose blind foaming at the mouth to many times because I either put the safe on or couldnt find it, The Mossberg works great for me and the cost didn't create to much of confict with the spouse.


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## NDMALLARD

because I am a lefty, I have owned two BPS' s, They are unreliable due to the fact that the bars that interchange the shells form the magazine to the chamber wear or bend with age. I bought a Benelli SBE three years ago (lefty model) and coundn't be more satisfied. NO MISSFIRES, NO JAMS, COLD WEATHER; NO PROBLEM. They cost too much but so does beer.


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## Ron Gilmore

ADOKKEN

I understand why you reload shooting that Mossberg must miss alot.  Just kidding.  Have you have any problems with powder and dirt building up at the base of the reciever in high humidity conditions. A freind of mine has had this problem early in the fall seasons, and we have cleaned it assembled it dry and still happens. He has had no problems later in the year. Did not matter what brand of shell that was run through.


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## Fattire

The Ithaca model 37 pumps new or old.

Older WM 870
Auto-5
New Beretta Autos


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## james s melson

Last season my family used 4 870's, an SP-10 and a NOVA, at the end of the day they all got the same treatment, look it over clean what needs to be cleaned. The shotgun that had the only problems in the field was the NOVA for some reason. What I like about the 870 is that you can completely field strip in the field if you have to, right down to a hollow reciever if need be. We got into some cattails one time..............


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## TURKEYMON

FOR AN ALL AROUND AND LONG DEPENDABLE GUN, THE REM. 870 IS HARD TO BEAT. BUT FOR TIGHT SHOOTING FOR TURKEY, I USE A MOSSBERG 835. I KNOW A MAN WHO OWNS A LARGE GUN SHOP, AND HAS SHOT AND USED ABOUT EVERY GUN MADE. HE ALSO SAID HE USES A 835 FOR TURKEY. :sniper:


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## Militant_Tiger

zoom zoom


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## GooseBuster3

If you are shooting steel through that you are an IDIOT! That is worth some $$$$. :eyeroll:


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## Goldy's Pal

"Benelli SBE, For the serious waterfowler" :2cents:


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## Militant_Tiger

hehe im glad you said that goosebuster, We have only shot lead out of it (range) since we got it. but it is reported that my grandfather lent it to a friend once, he took a buck with a slug! so we are a little worried the choke is worn. no way to check it though as you cant use the dime trick, its a 16 gauge


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## Guest

Winchester Super X2 with a pattern master choke. Mines been completely frozen in water. Threw it on the dash of the truck, thawed it out, drained the water and went hunting again. I beat the piss out of this gun and it haasn't failed me in 2 years of extreme hunting.


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## jcasteel

I agree the 870 Wingmaster is great gun, but they never have fit my big rear so...my favorite gun is the Mossberg 835. I just bought a new shadow grass and it's really sweet with the new porting. My next is a Sweet sixteen I have had for 40 yearswhen Browning was in St. Louis..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder..
JMC


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## Militant_Tiger

how exactly does a shotgun fit your ***?


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## mallard

The old 870 wingmaster gets my vote.A high scnool buddy has had one for 20+ years that refuses to quit.He has abused the heck out of it and it has never failed.I wish they still made them.The express is somewhat the same design except the parts arnt as beefy as the wingmaster.I now own a beretta 391.Nice gun,but you have to clean it constantly or it will jam.


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## Militant_Tiger

mallard they still do make the wingmaster... :lol:

http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870wnglc.htm

this for example


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## dlip

well, i think several are awesome, id have to say that the belgium browning auto 5/remington model 11 are up at the top, also the remington 11-48, the remington 1100, the remington 870, both express and wingmaster are fine pieces of equipment, i own the express supermagnum, the winchester model 12, 21, 50, and 101, i have a lot, but those are all great guns and you cant argue with that, if i had to pick though, i could only pick 4, the auto 5, the 870, the model 50 winchester, and the model 1100, in my first competition, my 1100 took me a long way, i came in 8th out of 200, and without my 1100, it wouldnt have happened :sniper:


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## drakeslayer

ya i have had two winchesters same models 1300s and they both didnt last too long. they are not fit for duck hunting. i like them for pheasent only. So i would say my favorite gun ever is the benelli nova its the perfect gun.


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## Ryan_Todd

i really enjoy my super x2 and my wingmaster. the best shotgun of all time would have to be the remington 870. they have really stood the test of time.


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## 870 XPRS

Ryan_Todd said:


> The best shotgun of all time would have to be the remington 870. they have really stood the test of time.


 :thumb: tried and true


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## tang

For me it has to be the Browning A-5 Shotgun. I had one in the early 1970's and hunted extensively with this gun. It didn't look very pretty after all that hunting but it never failed to function. I made a really stupid move and sold the shotgun. I think I have now grown wiser, I found an unused A-5 12 ga. on Gunsamerica in July and was able to make a deal, this time I know better. John Browning what a great gun designer, his name and designs, long may they live.

Tang  
  [/b]


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## pointer99

remington 1187 and 1100 are both good guns. the only secret to keep them from jaming is keep em clean.

pointer


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## Bobm

I have an Ithica 37 12 ga. that I have never had any problems with in the 38 years I've been shooting it. Its real light and nice to carry for a pump. My current favorite is my Spanish 12 ga double s xs made by Ugartecha, its been my first choice for the last 10 years. I also have a 12 ga Ithica model 100 s x s that I've had since the 60's thats a real nice gun I used to shoot a lot of Ruffed Grouse with it although its a single selective trigger gun so don't use it out in the prairies of your homeland. The selective part is to cumbersome to change instantly, I think.

S X S's are real easy to use on flushing birds like pheasant and grouse but I still do better on pass shooting with the old Ithica pump.


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## Desertrat

I always have a problem with the "absolute adjectives"......like GREATEST.....of ANYTHING!!!! That covers a lot of situations and a lot of opinions.....and everyone has their personal favorites. Like...I can tell you that my Ithaca M37 that is over 30 years old is "the greatest" cuz It has always functioned, never mis-fired, never jammed. BUT....I also have a lot more expensive, better looking.....better fitting etc.etc....guns that I also think are great weapons....yeah....I have a Perazzi too.....but it is almost too nice to bring out to the uplands. So remember one man's meat is another man's poison. Enjoy!!!!


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## 870

1. Bo Whoop
2. 870 Wingmaster
3. SBE

Beauty, Form, Function.


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## mr.trooper

Robert A. Langager said:


> Distant runners up would have to be as follows:
> 
> Winchester Model 12
> Browning A-5
> Ithaca Model 37
> Remington 1100
> and.......
> Daisy Red Ryder, I hear they pattern very consitently.


BWAHAR? HUM, HRR, HUMPH!!!

i certainly hope that lst isnt in any sort of order! A Belgian made A-5 is the best shotgun ever! much better than a Mossberg or any such thing! why im inslted that you would insult such a fine fire am as the A-5!!!

:beer:


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## Robert A. Langager

Wow, that post is like 3 years old.


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## mr.trooper

so....Im a little slow??

Come on robert. its not like there was anything else going on in this forum :roll:


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## Robert A. Langager

I just think its funny that I am being heckled for a post form 3 years ago. Relax. :roll: :beer:


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## StillKillsTheOldWay

I will make the assertion that as far as reliabilty I would pit the 870 against anything. Very few parts, so if anything ever did go wrong with it (Which in 7 years it has not) I can break it down in the field without much hassle. I just like the pump. I have an Remington SP-10 which I love, but I still love to use my pump especially when "Fit hits the Shan". I don't know if it feels better because it was my first gun and only gun for 4 years, but man I just click with that gun.


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## Duxbac

In 1970 when I was 13 years old my next door neighbour gave me a Remington 870 Wingmaster he had purchased second hand in the US in 1958. When he gave it to me he just blown about 5" off its 30" vent rib barrel it hadn't been cleaned since the day he bought it and the action had that much external rust you couldn't read the stampings on it. I hacked the damaged end of the barrel back to next rib post, (24.5" I think) stripped and cleaned the gun polished the action externally with steal wool and oil until it came up a nice deep rust brown color refinished the stock and put on a rubber pad. It was the handiest quail gun you could ever want, two years later a handyman with a lathe told me he could fit a screw on choke that he had, off an old Breda automatic. I soon acquire a full set of chocks for it and it performed well on all game. I used it for a few years, then I started to earn money and bought a new Browning A5 then a B25 UO but the Wingmaster was always locked in a case in the trunk of my car so it got used the most. Around 1990 the thread on the chokes got damaged or just wore out so I cut another ½ inch off the barrel and had a Briley internal choke fitted, and continued to use it until 1996 when the Australian government confiscated and destroyed all pumps and auto's. The Wingmaster was by that time at least 40 years old, I had used it for 26 of those years it still functioned flawlessly it had never had any part replaced in the action. It had devoured many thousand of rounds of both factory shell and reloads, the only time it failed was because of my crook reloads. If any body was to ask me "if I could have any gun in the world, what would I choose?" I'd say I'll have my Wingmaster back.


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## BIG LOST

8) *Going by what people drool over,,collector value,,market value,,refuseal to part with,,,etc. it would have to be the big red W mdl. 12,,world-wide reputation,,A-5 Browning,,others have their places in their class's :beer: *


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## mr.trooper

Duxbac said:


> ...and continued to use it until 1996 when the Australian government confiscated and destroyed all pumps and auto's. The Wingmaster was by that time at least 40 years old...





Duxbac said:


> ...I'd say I'll have my Wingmaster back.


Thank Heavens! Arnt you glad your government is so protective? Why WHO KNOWS what kind of havock, mass Chaos, and utter Destruction you could have wraught with that hideous killing machiene! :eyeroll: A POOR DEFENCELESS DUCK may have gotten caught up in the Carnage! Pump actions are FAR to deadly and evil for a stupid civilian to handle! its a good thing they came and stole your guns; you need to be protected from youself!

Ok. im done ranting. its just that i know alot of people from Australia that have had similar situations to yours. Makes me sick. uke:

That poor olde wingmaster probably could have served faithfully for several more decades...


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## 48guns

Winchester 101....beautiful, rugged, dependable, everlasting.


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## William McCormick

Matt Jones said:


> For reliability the 870 is hard to beat. A lot of guys might give a nod to the model-12 and that's a tough, both are great guns. Perhaps we'll have to let time tell, the mod 12 is still as much sought after today as when it came. I guess the same could be said for the 870 as well...
> 
> Best auto of all time is the A-5, hands down. I'm looking to buy an SBE so I'll have to wait to tell. You look at the browning and it was a flawless performer for a hundred years. Once the benelli does that I'll tip my hat, but for now A-5 is still number one.
> 
> Doug, I have one of the BGH 3.5's when they were still in the testing period for them and they are junk. They might be good guns nowadays but they were junk when they first came out.


Hello, I am Bill McCormick

I agree totally. That the auto fives are top dog.

In the eighties and early nineties I owned a Japanese 3 inch magnum slug Browning. And a three inch magnum Belgium Browning.

It is a very funny story, as to how I got a hold of these guns. I had walked into my local gun store and said I want the best shot guns you have, money is no object.

So the fellow went into the back and got both of the above guns and brought them out. Back then they wanted almost seven hundred for both guns. That seemed like a lot to me. But these were beautiful pieces. They had giant elks or something engraved on them and a gold trigger. He then asked what I was going to do with them. I said I was going to go skeet shooting.

He took them back and said they are not for skeet shooting. But I said I want them. And he said I guess you could take out the choke rings and use them. But it may damage gun. And after about 3000 rounds it did crack the front wooden hand grip.

I had the guns for years and never fired a magnum or slug from them. One day I was in another gun store and the fellow asked me if I had any guns. I told him about the two shotguns. He said "aren't they wild with the magnums". And I said I don't know. So he sold me a box of 2 3/4" and a box of 3" magnums. He said they are both the same round, because they contain the same powder charge. And he was right both rounds fired about the same.

I reinstalled the two brass choke rings and put the new hand grip on, went down to the local pistol range. I figured I would pop some holes in a target and go home. I had worked all day and I was kind of tired. But I wanted to try the slug because the guy said "you won't believe it".

And I almost did not believe it. I fired the Japanese shotgun first. In all my life I was never hit with this much energy from a gun. The gun fired silently. I thought for a second from the energy I received, that the gun had jammed or malfunctioned. I had a thought that maybe my hearing had failed because I did not hear anything. But the next second I started to sort out all the nonsense. My father had told me about the Navy firing silent recoil type guns years ago.

With the warning from the gun store owner, and my fathers warning, I suspected this was the effect that was to be expected. But I was not sure. I looked up at the target and for the first time in my life I had a perfect bull's-eye. So I know the round cleared the barrel.

Ok now all I have left is the pain in my shoulder. This is very new to me, because I have fired thousands of reloaded and new 12 gauge skeet rounds, and WWII style 30 caliber army surplus. And I never even considered my shoulder. I always maintained a snug fit to my shoulder with the stock. My father had warned me that every now and then there is an effect that had broken peoples necks. While firing slugs with a gun not held tight up against the shoulder.

But back to the rifle range. I opened up my shirt and saw internal hemorrhaging in my shoulder. It was already purple but deep under the skin. But this was incredible, I had to fire a few more rounds.

Originally I was going to just pop them off one two three, and go home. So I had broken the range rules put all the rounds in the gun. Now I wanted to just get them unloaded into the target, try the Belgium and go home. So I fire the second round, confirm there is no sound from the gun, except from the chrome steel bolt coming back. It makes a slight bell like ring.

I look at the target and there is no new hole in the target. Now I am a bit unnerved again. So I put the stop on the feeder tube and eject the next round. I point the gun to a light and see light coming through the barrel. So I again figure I will just keep firing. I fire again reaffirm the silence of the gun. Look up at the target and see no new hole. I have gotten three rounds at close range into an almost perfect hole, but you could see that there was more then one round fired. But this target was perfectly drilled.

At this point I should have checked to see if the round had jammed, but I would not give in to my fears, it fired twice it must have fired again. So I think to myself, just incase my logic is flawed, or I missed the target completely. This time I am going to fire just a quarter inch left and a quarter inch low. I fire and there is a quarter inch crest, just left and low of a perfect bulls-eye. I aim the gun one more time at the bulls-eye, fire the last round,and there is no new hole. I cannot say if it was a quarter left and low, or right on. Ha-ha. But either way the most outrageous gun I ever fired.

If you had known me at the time, I was a trained Hazmat professional in emergency response and I used to roll drums filled with contaminated dirt as quick as you can walk or jog. I was in very good shape. I would volunteer to load the trucks with drums by hand, just to stay in shape. A guy in the yard used to run drums filled with flammable liquid up into the waste truck with a forklift and slide them into me. Just for fun. After I was pinned in, he would jump off the forklift and give me a few shots in the arm. But I never bruised.

Well, anyway I had to just try the Belgium made gun. I fired a round and it made the sound of that little guy on TV that slaps his hand over his mouth and it sounds like a champagne bottle opening. I noted it was not as accurate as the Japanese model. It had a ball sight. I think I fired it one more time. But that sound was just too funny. I could not finish off the ammo, I was really losing it, I could not stop laughing. I just packed up and went home. But I had one internally damaged shoulder.

I am not asking you to believe this, I am just suggesting that you take it into consideration before you fire the two guns I fired, with the magnum loads I used. I have single handed a Mosberg pistol grip with a magnum and it had almost no kick.

Sincerely,

William McCormick


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## Hardsell

Gander,
I have an 870 as my back-up. There are two Benelli SBEI's and four Benelli SBEII's in my family. My SBEI's seen action in MN, SD, CO, and TX and has never had a problem. I bought my SBEI right out of high school and have had it for eight years now. I love my 870, but it isn't as smooth as my SBEI. After eight years, it's paid for itself many times over. My two friends who work at Gander and Sportsman's Warehouse respectively both shoot Benellis. It's just years of use and experience that have determined that it's hard to beat Benelli as an all purpose shotgun. Plus, I'm 5'3, 115lbs and the weight and balance of my shotgun is very important to me. It's also hard for any shotgun to compete against the easy take-down and cleaning ability that the Benellis have.


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## Bob Aronsohn

I'm an old model 12 man, I just love the way they are balanced. But.... you gotta keep em up if you shoot them a lot. The 870 is more trouble free but for the money you are not going to find a more reliable pump gun than the old Remington Wing Master.

Bob A.


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## Bob Aronsohn

There are only four semi auto shotguns that I would consider the most reliable. The Beretta model 390 and 391, the Benelli montefeltro and the Browning A-5.

Bob A.


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## jackal_727

Charles Daly :lol:


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