# Guides/Outfitters- who are they?



## biggamehunter06 (Sep 13, 2006)

Let me start by saying that I KNOW I will never change anyones opinoin on this page but it really is upsetting to see the animosity towards guides and outfitters....please just give me one minute to vent and I will stay off your board and site 
I work full time NIGHT shift year round, hubby works days full time (with the handicap- 8 years) for approx 23 years so our kids didn't have to go to a babysitter...I love to hunt...I love to see kids hunting...I will talk your ear off about my hunting trips - bear, elk, deer, birds, you name it...I took our 18yr old son for his graduation on a guided Elk hunt in Mont (left dad at home) haha...I worked many extra hours at the hospital to pay for a mom and son trip of a lifetime. I am on our rural volunteer ambulance service. Our oldest son jumped into a freezing slough last year during late hunting season to pull out an 80 yr old couple who had fallen asleep at the wheel.and went into the water...he never thought of himself...When my pager went off..he said lets go...no one else attempted to jump in the water. The water was so cold that by the time he carried out the elderly man he almost went under himself. ...oh did I forget to tell you that he is a guide..sounds like a guy that's a real jerk? ..His best friend/bestman at his wedding spent a year in Iraq...very dangerous area...so that we could have our freedoms..he is also a guide...quess that makes him a jerk..by now I am sure you have figured out where I am going...our hunters buy their food, groceries, gas and supplies in our town and neighboring towns..Every house has lists of community activities for the hunters to go to and a list of business to spend their money at...Most every kid knows that I am a big pushover for every community and school funding event in the country and they show up all the time and I love to give...just ended up buying 20 pizza's yesterday...I could go on and on but I am sure you don't really want to hear it..but before you bash guides and outfitters... remember they may be a really nice family who loves to hunt, follows the rules, gives BACK to their community and we just may be one of the persons who is pulling your family out of an accident or giving his life in Iraq for this country. Thank you for letting me vent and I know that there have been a lot of bad things that many hunters have done..not just outfitters and guides..I hate all cheaters when it comes to hunting no matter who they are. It is really hard for me to read this website knowing how most of you feel and then knowing how passionate we are about our family, friends, community and hunting...thank you


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

No one does all good deeds, or all bad deeds. No matter what one does or how he serves others they still don't have the right to sell wildlife. I commend your son and his friend for the service they have done for us all. I served as a scout master for many many years and was a counselor for 19 different merit badges for 12 years. I don't have the right to charge someone for a single pheasant. Things are not as simple as they look on the surface. 
I have no problem with the services guides provide. I have no problem with the board and room outfitters provide. I do have a problem with them attempting to hog the public resource.

Timothy McVey served this nation in the military = good, bombed a federal building = bad.
Don't get me wrong I am not comparing anyone your talking about to McVey I'm just trying to get the point across that one thing sometimes has nothing to do with the other.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Thanks for the perspective. Just curious why did you post this on the duck hunting forum?

I am sure you are a very caring person. the things you listed that you do for your community are no doubt appreciated by the community, just like every other city, town, village where people want to be active, involved and care about their community.

You said


> "it really is upsetting to see the animosity towards guides and outfitters...."


 Just so you know you may be taking some of this a little more seriously than it is intended to be.

Outfitter on this site usually get called out on the carpet when they deserve it, and sometimes when they do not. At times the banter back and forth is because we (posters and outfitters) know each other pretty well and just happen to be pretty good friends, you know like the friend you can say anything to and still remain friends??

I know and respect the opinions of some of the major outfitters in ND. That being said we do not agree on very many things and agree to disagree. In the past there has been hope of cooperation in designing a workable relationship only to be thwarted at the last minute by changed minds on the O/G side of the hall, why? Quite simply because they did and do not have to. They have the political muscle, contacts and funds to win against, more often than not, a bunch of freelance hunters that are at best loosely knit trying to preserve a little piece of the pie for their future.

Animosity breeds animosity, there has been a very tenuous relationship developing in a power struggle between freelance hunters and O/G's since the regulations for guides and outfitters became law. That power struggle still exists today because some members of the O/G industry in ND have taken a stance that they will do whatever it takes to expand the industry in ND without regard toward anyone, i.e. freelance hunters or others that can not afford to pay someone to help them hunt. So what choice do we have except to do a little pushing back. Political will vs. political will.

There are several members of the O/G industry in ND that thought they were Teflon coated. Laws were broken, ignored, skirted and laughed at. The NDGF and Feds finally got their men and they were slapped on the wrist and allowed to continue in business only to go out and do it again. The laws in place have some loopholes. These infractions were made public and when they were they were beat up pretty hard on this site and many others, deservedly so. Unfortunately many on this site do not know any outfitter or guides personally and because of that all O/G's were and are judged by the actions of the outlaws. vigilante justice, Internet talk form style!

Hot button issues like access and outfitters operating outside of the law to name a few, will continue to be discussed often with great animosity toward the O/G industry in ND and for that matter nation wide. Often it is based on ethics handed down from previous generations that were ingrained into the young minds at the time and have grown stronger with time.

I hope you stick around, many outfitters check into this site quite often, most do not want to get into a heated debate and just read the opinions. It does nothing to help anyone to get to know them a little better, or maybe it is the fact that they just want to check the temperature of the opposition and don't want to begin any dialog. Me, well I talk to much and will visit with most anyone that wishes to have a discussion on these issues. I am an opinionated old reprobate and get my blood pressure up way to often but it is not out of hate, it is because I see something I love slipping away a little bit at a time, often without notice by many and I feel I have to say something before it is gone. I am a freelance hunter, and I am just as proud of things I have done as you are of yours.

Regards

Bob


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> ....please just give me one minute to vent and I will stay off your board and site


Stick around, You might also find we aren't such bad guys and gals!!!


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

> our hunters buy their food, groceries, gas and supplies in our town and neighboring towns..


We do these things too. I am trying to book my late season pheasant hunts right now and I go to the small towns to stay and I show up with empty coolers. I buy my gatorade, bottles of water, candy bars, and lunch sandwiches where I hunt at. Many of us do and many of us would like to do more of that.

Example: There are 10,000 acres of good open hunting land around Pembina and let's just say 150 of us make 2-10 trips each fall to hunt that land. We stay in the hotels/bed and breakfast/ or rent homes. We buy our gas and groceries there and everything else we need. Let's say we have been doing this for 20 years now. Then all of a sudden a G/O decides to lease the land and tie it up not allowing anyone in there unless they have some money in their pocket and they are willing to write a check to get on that very same land.

Who wins then? Those 150 small town supporters that had been coming there for 20 years or more are now forced out. Who would you rather have in those small towns us or them? Remember that "us" could include both residents and non-residents.

Some of those 150 could be volunteer fireman or EMT people in their local small town. They could be service men and women who just returned from Iraq looking for a place to get away. He/She could be that pastor just down the road who makes more than 10 trips over there.

Stay on the site, I think you will find we aren't really that ugly.


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## N2Duks (Aug 27, 2006)

The problems with guides in my book is that they are setting the precedent to pay to hunt land that anyone else if simply asking could be allowed to hunt. What ever happened to showing up the earliest to ensure you got the spot. A guide could do that if they wanted. The main question is when and where is it going to end? All the time guides and outfitters are leasing land, not so wealthy hunters are left out in the cold with less and less places to go, that otherwise they could have had access! I show up in a small town in mid eastern ND every year with nothing but my gun and clothes. I too stay at a local hotel, eat every meal in that town or pay for lunch meat, and buy everything I need while I'm there. If I continue to go up there and the land available to the freelance hunter continues to dwindle away, that small town will lose my dollar and my hunting partners, along with many others. So unless the guides and outfitters are willing to pay all the small communities in the Dakotas for the discrepancy of lost revenue, can't you see where this is going to end? It's going to end with a lot of upset hunters, and even more smaller communities that struggle even more!


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## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

BGH06, Thanks for stopping in. You say your son and his buddy are guides. Tell them not to worry about whats said here they are doing a noble profession. Being that they are guides they must work for an evil outfitter such as myself. We (outfitters) are the ones who hold those vast land leases so they say here. This lady's son only works for an a$$hole such as myself. They take guys hunting and they get paid for it, big deal. How many on this site have guys in local communities go scout and find birds for you?????? I have for a number of people on this site, only difference I didn't get paid for it.

BGH06, To understand the mindset on many on this site . I was once told by one that it doesn't matter how many good things you do, it all gets washed away because you are an outfitter. Oh well, nice guys finish last,and no good deed goes unpunished. I could go on and on but I will not. I usually like to show the other side of things here give people a choice. I've accused of bantering  whatever that is


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Always the victim g/o? Nice twist on the post. :eyeroll:


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## biggamehunter06 (Sep 13, 2006)

Thank you to everyone that posted and sent PM asking me to stick around. I appreciate it. Good luck to everyone that is going out hunting this weekend....I thought I had found a huge field of geese (quite a ways off the highway..so went home to get the binocs and it was green tumbleweeds...thats why I stick to big game..ha ha...easier to see..I should probably move to the big game forum as you all will roll your eyes at this...I have never shot a duck or a goose in my life and almost all of our business is duck and goose..I tried once..our oldest took me out..there is no way I could repeatedly go out and lay on my back in a blind that reminds me of a coffin, on the cold ground..after that 1st time, I was so sore, my son told me mom just sit up quick and shoot when the birds come in...I needed at least 10min to get myself up...I would rather sit in a open tree stand and see everything around me..I do love to crane hunt though..don't ever try to grab one by the neck..I tried..Thank you Chris for the positive...you are always welcome to come and hunt with us...see you all around..have a great bear story to tell later..


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## Azman (Mar 1, 2005)

Live to hunt - Don't you think it's about time to 'put a sock' in the Pembina thing?


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## Tator (Dec 10, 2005)

biggamehunter, never post anything again. Your post was stupidly rediculous, people venting about g/o don't vent about their personality, they vent about what the believe in and what they think is right. You could be the greatest giver in the world, and donate all your $$$$ to catch a dream (ya, that would be the day) that still doesn't take away the facts of what you do, and believe in. This has nothing to do with family, or if your a great person, nothing at all, my god, get a clue, maybe if you'd visit the site a little more you'd realize that people don't think they g/o are all bad people, it's how they believe in their profession is what the real topic is about.

please let someone a little more educated type for your company next time


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## Tupe (Aug 19, 2005)

Tator,

Leave off on this person. Who the heck are you to judge them? I happen to know them and I will tel you without a doubt that she and her whole family are some of the finest people on this planet. And yes, how they live their lives does make a differance, to me as a friend and client of their and to our world as hunters and sportsman.

There is no crime, no eveil and no harm in beng a good guide and outfitter. It is a part of the world of hunting and has been for a long time. All G/o's are not cut from the same cloth, but I have never met one who I hold in as high regard as the person you just took a poke at. She and everyone of her family and employees are good folk who work hard and enjoy sharing the wonders of the outdoors with others. I, and anyone who has ever had the chance to get to know them, would be honored to call them my freinds, but the feel even more like family.

Biggame- Don't let the turkeys get you down, if you know what I mean. This is one southern boy who has seen the cut of your cloth and counts it among the finest known. Keep running your place the way you always have and know that you are giving back ten fold to the world.

See you in the fall,

Tupe (Your long haired, wordy, southern, friend, the dark haired one, not ole curly.)


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Welcome.

All of the accomplishments and good things you mentioned were not done in the capacity of a g/o role so they do nothing to justify the profession.

Just my opinion...

Something tells me this will be moved to "hot topics." :lol:


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## Tupe (Aug 19, 2005)

There is no need to "justify" the profession. No more than there is a need for a banker, baker or indian chief to do so. It is a job, and a service that is available in our world, and one that can be done well and with respect and honor, just as it can be done poorly. I doubt anyof us would want everyone on here to hold our jobs up to the kind of review folks pound guides and outfitters with.

I have run into far more "freelance" or average joe hunters with poor ethics than guides who fell below the mark. But I do not consider all public hunters evil. You can not condem an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.

Tupe


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## Tator (Dec 10, 2005)

I've never said that the people who do this are bad people INDIVIDUALLY!!!!!! so stop bringing all that up man. I'm sure they are nice people, that's NOT what this is about. It's the PROFESSION, NOT the PEOPLE!!! get it through the thick part of your skull

Tator


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Tator, your right of course. If your single and some good looking woman comes up and gives you a big hug, but slips a knife between your ribs at the same time is she good or bad? The blade is half way in now, are we going to hang around for a little more squeezing?


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

I agree that guiding is a noble profession and like all other professions there is PROFESSIONALISM. Guiding/Outfitting is like all other professions in that its member's have different levels of professionalism.

This is an outdoors website and outfitters/guides are truly the professionals that represent the commercialized portion of this sport and free-lance hunters represent the recreational aspect of this sport.

Now if you were to look at it, don't you think that professionals who act very unprofessional and disregard the ethical and moral principles that their fellow Guides/Outfitters (PROFESSIONALS) uphold should not be scrutinized for it? Sure, there are generalizations that are made about Guides/Outfitters... but aren't there similar generalizations made about lawyers and accountants? Especially the professionals within these professions that choose to disregard the morals and ethics that their fellow professionals uphold are they not thumbed at in public for their deeds? (ENRON...ROBERT SHAPIRO(OJ's Lawyer)).

So you see, because of the actions a few unprofessional Guides/Outfitters an entire profession can be snubbed... this is why strict, well enforced codes of ethics within professions are so important. These must be upheld and those that violate them must be punished or the whole profession suffers.

I hope that this helps explain the reason that so many people on this site have a tainted trust of the Guiding and Outfitting Profession in North Dakota. We know that it is an isolated few that have caused so much unethical and immoral actions, but once trust is taken away... it is very hard to regain.

In this case, we are all very passionate about our outdoor resources and our sport. We love the heritage, we love the traditions and we love the land. To have some of the few that have a profession that derives from the use of this resource and abuse it, even though they are the few among their peers, it drives a stake right through our hearts as sportsman and that fragile trust is gone.

Now a great topic of discussion would be how this profession upholds its by-laws or professional code of ethics and how it enforces it. I would be interested in trying to understand how it works, maybe there is something that we can better understand as people outsid ethe this profession that would shed a better light of understanding on this profession.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Tupe said:



> There is no need to "justify" the profession. No more than there is a need for a banker, baker or indian chief to do so. It is a job, and a service that is available in our world, and one that can be done well and with respect and honor, just as it can be done poorly. I doubt anyof us would want everyone on here to hold our jobs up to the kind of review folks pound guides and outfitters with.


I used the term justify because that is how it came across in the initial post. I agree there is no need to justify any profession. You missed my point that all the good things she listed had nothing to do with being a g/o...simple as that.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Tupe... I disagree. Every profession is held to morals and standards as a professional.

Would we dare say the same thing about a Lawyer? An accountant? A banker?

You are missing the boat on this one.

There is no defense needed for the profession at all, but unethical pratices in any profession are not to be tolerated. The people within the profession should also be the first to police and enforce these ethics... that is what a professional license is all about or a membership within an organization.

A good question would be do other guides/outfitters within other states, regions etc have a higher standard and enforce that standard than those in ND?


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

G/O

How do the guides/outfitters in North Dakota enforce their by-laws, code of conduct?

I would be very interested in learning more about this process and I think that it could help change the preceptions of many people on this site.

It seems that in all the conversations that we have had that there was more defense than there was an exchange of information.


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## biggamehunter06 (Sep 13, 2006)

Just a little reply...I do believe that my (and my family's)personal integrity and beliefs and "good deeds" does plays 100% role in our business as g/o...In my life, I try to live every aspect with the standards that my grandmother instilled in me...I treat my patients at work, my co-workers, my family, friends and strangers all the same..We have an open door policy in our family..and that even includes our area gamewarden, who knows he is welcome at our house anytime he wants...As I said before to some of those that PM to me...We live on the farmstead that my grandfather homesteaded on my mom's side and our oldest son and wife life on the farmstead that his greatgrandfather homesteaded. Besides being in Bismarck for a few years, I have lived on this farm all my life...We OWN a large amount of land besides hunt on my dads land and many other relatives ..and we bought our land as an investment way before we even planned on doing this business..if you go to my family reunion, a church function or a basketball game, you will see almost the same people...please take note that I am not an outsider to this area, my family ties have been here for many years and how we run our lives and our business does matter...it matters to me and my family (esp if they want to continue eating my cooking and have me wash their clothes haha)...Some of the most critical people are your relatives and this area is full of ours and as I said before, I plan on living my life as best I can and to the standards that my grandmother taught me...and just for your info...I will stop at a stop sign in the middle of nowhere even when I am alone just because it's the law...(and I do get teased a lot about it)... I at least am trying...and for those that know me (and my family) thank you for the nice things and the yearly carmel rolls (1st batch for this hunting season) go in the oven in the morning..thanks


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

biggamehunter06,

I do not know you, but I wish I did. You remind me of the family I have known in the Dawson area for many years. They welcome me with open arms whenever I come out. They are welcome in my home whenever they come to Fargo.

This is the type of relationship that the freelance hunter develops. This type of relationship is in danger of extinction from the actions of some outfitters. Sheldon Schlect was/is very active in this area. His activities have left a sour taste in the mouth of many hunters and landowners.

I do not doubt your sincerity or integrity, but the actions of some of your fellow outfitters have seriously tarnished your profession. If you operate solely on your own land and do not lease up prime hunting land so others can not enjoy it, you will have no problems with the majority of hunters on this website.

Our beef, if you will pardon the pun, is with outfitters who exclude the majority of hunters from prime hunting lands through leasing arrangements designed for their exclusive profit. These arrangements not only exclude the freelance hunter from pursuing his/her passion, they also hurt the local community by eliminating the motel, gas and food purchases of the freelance hunter.

Thank you for posting up your opinions.

Jim Heggeness


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

So you guys have no problem with the "Mom and Pop" GOs that have been there since Jesus was a kid but those who are just starting out are evil? I dont get it.

I mean, I can totally understand why you feel some angst over the loss of your happy hunting grounds, but if it is gonna happen on land that you aren't willing to pay for (and believe me... a lease or a CFD or a mortgage is more painful than a case of shells, a 4WD, a hundred bigfoots and a 700 dollar lab) but are more than willing to hunt at someone elses expense, you are bent out of shape.

I honestly dont get it. I really dont. Not being a smarta$$, I just dont get it.

I am as pi$$ed about what Sheldon has gotten away with as you are and I dont even hunt there anymore. Haven't for a number of years. But to 
lump all of them into his cesspool is unfair.

I dont like any criminal. If you ever see an episode of COPS you will notice that plenty of "Perps" are people of color or are white trailer dwellers with mullets and AC/DC t-shirts. Is every "white trash Mullieteer or Blackman" a 40 drinkin, wife beaten idiot? Heck no!

I am not pro GO. I am not pro-lakeshore developer.

I think that both of them need to operate within the same parameters that everybody else has to. No more and no less. Near as I can tell, you have just as much opportunity to buy or lease land out there as a GO or an NR and if you arent willing to do either, then you are gonna get what is handed to you.

Simple as that.

From what I can see here, the only lines that GOs (the good and legal ones) cross here is that they tie up land that you guys want access to but arent willing to pay for and...they are.

They dont need any special variances from the county to get around the policies set by the county or state to do their damage with the payoff being higher revenues. They are profiting from owning or leasing land but are selling that privalage to those who, in turn are willing to pay for it. (welcome to America) Of course that excludes those who just expect that privailage because they may have lived in Fargo or GF for 6 months and are a resident but hey, I live in Mn and a Vikings ticket costs me the same as it costs you.

Tell me that I am no different than you because I live on a Mn lake and have my undies in a bundle about how a developer manipulated a bunch of 70 year old county politicians with the lure of increased tax revenue and I will tell you that I LIVE here...on the lake. I dont LIVE in Mpls and vacation here.
If you can equate that, then my hat is off to you but otherwise...

How many of you here got "runn offt" your land because of GOs? How many of you had to quit farming because of GOs or NRs? You guys talk like they are stealing it. I dont get your logic. Feel your pain, just dont get your logic.

I liken it to those who barely squeaked through HS...got at job at the plant for $7.50 an hour...after 20 years of working there, they make $12.50 an hour and pee and moan because some "college boy" is 25 years old making 6 digits and hires and fires them.

I can tell you where the college admin. offices are and how to apply and what it is gonna cost.

I can also tell you were the real estate agents can be contacted and where to get a loan and what it's gonna cost.

I feel for you guys. I really do. I grew up in Minnesota Nirvanna and watched it all suck into a black hole of fencerow to fencrow and hog confinements with dick I could do about it.

I could have been Don Quixote and tilted at windmills as you guys are doing but I bought land in the last vestages. I do with it what I feel will make a difference it costs me more than gas and decoys and guns and a dog to enjoy the game.

Sure, nobody can hunt it other than who I let hunt it but that was the case before I bought it. (If you think for one minute that the wood tick that I bought my land from ever let anybody hunt it that he didnt see across the supper table every night, you have another think coming...a wider variety of bloodlines have hunted it in the last ten years than in the last 75).

You guys seem to think that someone else owes you that opportunity. Meanwhile, they are paying for the habitat which raises the birds, feeds the birds and shelters the birds and all you have to provide is license money and proof of residency.

If some dude pays for the right to hunt the birds, or let somebody else pay for the opportunity, where do you get off saying he shouldnt?

Respectfuly...but confused...

Bert


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Bert,
You are definately correct in that you "just don't get it" and you never will. You can not comment on any situation without turning it into a diatribe on your local lake problems. You want to maintain the quality of life on "your" lake, but don't seem to think we should be able to maintain the quality of our hunting. What's the difference - I guess maybe you think you own the lake.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Bert: Just got some great information from your State Demographer down in St. Paul. He says that 30,000 families will migrate into MN over the coming months. He spoke at length about MN's agency support services along with affordable housing, and great jobs that are available in MN right now. "Minnesota just looks great!"

He says people from Hurrican Katrina are re-locating in MN along with people from the East and from the West coasts. That MN right now and for the past couple of years is the "chosen" state to live in for families that have two professional working adults. Not your low income, but your higher income professional working families.

That leads me to believe that this influx of people from the south, east and west is AND has been reaking your havoc on "your" lake in MN all while your blaming the ND residents for you disgust.

I think it is time that you quit blaming us for what you call "your lake problem" over there. I am quite sure the 30,000 families coming in over the next couple of months won't do a thing for your lake home values...but we will all be waiting here for you to tell us how we are your problem over there.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Bert,

Sorry if I am not up to speed.

Do you own lake property or live on a lake?
Just curious.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Bert, as usual, you hit pretty close to the mark, in my opinion anyway!

Biggamehunter06! Don't go away! Everybody here doesn't hate G/O's! I hate crooked dishonest law breaking individuals as much if not more, than anyone here, no matter what their profession! I personally know only a few guides and outfitters, and to a man (or lady as you probably are included) they are as honest and as fine upstanding individuals as you will find! Except for a few glaring examples, I have nothing but respect for G/O's thus far. What they are doing is perfectly legal, and if someone doesn't like it they should go to the legislature and change the law, rather than the continual G/O bashing,with often very rude and objectionable posts, that are ALWAYS on this website! I'm sure the legislature would love to hear some constructive ideas for a change.

Sure, you'll have the odd unethical crook in every profession, guiding included. Unethical behavior in hunting?? Quite a lot of that going around here, but so far I've NEVER seen it in guides or guided hunters! Unfortunately, as much as I hate to say it, it's mainly the locals,but because we live near a populated center both the good hunters (which, like honest and ethical guides, admitedly you tend not to notice) and the slobs are overrepresented! Yet there are a few guides working relatively close to where I live! But you NEVER have trouble with them or their clients! 
But it never ceases to amaze me why guides should break the law and jeapordize what they have worked to build up??? Kind of like killing the goose that laid the golden egg. But then why should a mechanic, a doctor, a policeman, a salesman, a lawyer, or any other profession break the law? Same thing, different goose! Yet they all do it occasionally, and usually end up losing their license for it, too! But you never hear about the honest ones!


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## biggamehunter06 (Sep 13, 2006)

Thank you to those who asked me to stay around..I have a funny story to share and please don't anyone read more into than it is.. it is hopefully just to give you a smile...this last winter our website was targeted by PETA I was shocked and horrified at the emails..some of the things they were saying were "that all hunters should put their guns in their mouths and blow their brains out...well, you probably guessed what I did and I am sure you will see a pattern here....I emailed everyone of them back and there were a lot of them mostly from the UK...I believe there is a line that you just don't cross...and being a night charge nurse who covers the er, I have seen way to many attempted and successful suicides and I can tell you that there has been NOTHING that has reached down to the core of my soul and left me feeling so empty and devastated...so I did not take well to the that remark about turning a gun on yourself no matter who you are..that's crossing the line....I told them that if they wanted to make a difference in this world being nasty wasn't the way to do it...well, believe it or not..they started sending us letter saying..dear sirs, please don't shoot anymore animals..and so on.I emailed them back and thanked them for the respectable letters...then they started asking how we can shoot cranes when they are on the endangered list...I email back and said how can you be a spokesperson for the animals if you don't even know that what is on the endangered list and what can be legally hunted..I explained the difference...and did go to their websites and did a lot of seaching and reading...some of the videos that they have about treatment towards cows and dogs is terrible...and I told them that I was pretty sure that every hunter I know would agree that those videos were terrible..I spent time asking them questions about their beliefs and practices...well, it only took about a week and they asked me not to email them anymore. I COULDN'T believe it..I was dissed by PETA. I think it was the last question I asked that pushed them over the edge...their website stated that all male dogs were to be neutored ASAP...I asked them why they didn't see that as being cruel...and did the male dogs agree to that...oh, it still is a pretty big joke at our house that I have trouble keeping friends...I never expected that response..so, again just hope you get a chuckle from my little experience with PETA..ha.. I will be gone for a few days..I just can't stand it and have to take a few days off from work and go back to Minn for another chance to fill my bear tag... the guy who we hunt with said the bears are hitting hard now that the cold weather is here..I haven't told the "guy" who is sitting on the couch watching Monday Night Football yet ( sorry I lied..the guy who is SLEEPING on the couch) haha..that I am going back out there AND that I will have to stop at Cabelas and buy some more camo clothing (I'm sure they have some new stuff that I don't have)... oh well after almost 25yrs of marriage what can I say. :wink: ...take care everyone and hunt safely...


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

BGH06, Have a safe and prosperous trip, and don't shoot BooBoo :lol:


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## Tupe (Aug 19, 2005)

Can't wait to hear the story. Have a great trip.


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

BGH, yeah don't shoot BooBoo but Yogi has to go he keeps stealing my pickinic basket! oke:


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Zogman.

I own lake property and live there year round.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Live.

Sure people come to the lakes from all over the world. Just so happens that 99% of them are from NorthDakota where I happen to live. How do I know this? Pretty easy to pick out vehicle plates or boat stickers or jetski stickers.

People are and will be pouring into Minnesota. No doubt about it. 
Wanna guess how many of those displaced Cajuns who love their duck hunting are going to hunt?

That being said, I dont blame "ND" for the lake issues like development.

It comes up and it, to me is so ironic, because many people on this site say things like what you just said, and may spend their summers within a couple miles of me.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

> It comes up and it, to me is so ironic, because many people on this site say things like what you just said, and may spend their summers within a couple miles of me.


I am not one of those people. I occasionally fish but love to jetski and waterski. I do my jetskiing on bigger lakes because I can get away from fisherman and do my waterskiing on a extremely secluded lake so I don't bother fisherman there either.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I pose this question for all who don't like the G/o'ers......

What do you think about the people who make and sell hunting vids, decoys, calls, etc???

Are they not making money off the resource??? Are they not apart of the commercializing of the resource???

I know some of these people are not leasing land and other things.....but they are still making money of the resource. They are (like some calling) "prosituting" the resource for all it is worth. These same people making calls, vids, etc are the commercial end of hunting. They are also commercializing hunting and making money off it.

I know I have opened up a huge can of worms and will get blasted.....BUT COMMERCIALIZATION IS COMMERCIALIZATION down to the smallest form.

So if you are totally against Commercialization of the sport....you must be a purest and make your own decoys and calls. Otherwise you are apart of the commercialization. So put down your "commercialization" flag and say what is truely bothering you......ie access issuues, tie up land, violations, etc.

Sorry I am off my soapbox .:soapbox : 
_____________________________________________________________

So please don't blast G/O er's who are making an honest living, doing everything by the book, not locking down thousands and thousands of acres. They are no different than anyone else who has a job. They just chose a different path than others. But if they are doing illegal things, tying up land...vent about that.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Chuckie,
As a purest should we make our shotguns, ride a mule, put up our own hay with the mule of course? How far should this be carried? Live in a homemade tent 365 days a year. I do buy commercial calls, but I do NOT own hunting vidios or the like. I do NOT watch hunting or fishing shows.
I do have a depth finder and GPS in my boat.

All that being said, defining a "purest" is purely an individual thing. :toofunny:


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