# Trapper at heart, but I don't know squat!!!



## Bug Guy

Ok, I have been reading topics on this forum that go all the way back to 2006 on all topics to get an idea about trapping. However, the last time I trapped I was 9 years old and used "death clutches" for pocket gophers. I got .50 cents a pair for front feet. WOW, what a trip down memory lane today has been. Anyway, I live in east central ND (or will when I get out of the Navy in a few months) and have 200 acres of CRP and pasture land that has a skunk, ****, and coyote problem, with some misc. others thrown in for good measure. I also have a house on 7 acres next to a river which will just add to the fun. Again, I have no experience with trapping above ground or in water, but can buy the traps and read directions. If I can catch anything I would also like to try my hand at fur handling. That should be interesting......, but first things first. I have read most of the post based on beginning trappers and am looking for opinions on the most appropriate startup kit for my situation. What kind of trap and how many. What type of set-ups to start with? Example: I need 5 leg hold traps (name and type) and start with pocket sets. or something like that. I am also interested in snaring as I don't think I am quite ready for coyote leg hold sets yet. I really like the bucket set with a 220 conibear in it placed in a tree for ***** as I would like to avoid unfortunate encounters with family pets. I fully intend and expect to make disastrous mistakes and screw up anything and everything possible, but you have to start somewhere. I have used rifles to thin the numbers of these critters, but kind of felt bad that I wasn't using the animal to the fullest extent possible. I'm not looking to make money, just more peace of mind when I take these critters out. The bottom line is that I want to protect my fawn and pheasant populations by implementing a predator control program, while using as much of the animals as possible in the process. Sorry for the long post, but I thought a bit of history, a description of my playground, and my intent would help shape some of the responses. I truely appreciate any information you veterans can provide. Thanks.


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## Dick Monson

I have two books left you are welcome to have. One is Larry's Snaring Experiances by Larry Fred Wittman and the other is Long Liner Coyote Trapping by Garold Weiland. Got some other gear too. The only problem I can see is that for fur to be worth anything it has to be taken in the fall-early winter when it is prime. The population of animals your are targeting for control will repopulate the area by spring when the fur is worth nothing. Water living critters like beaver and muskrats are still prime into spring. But give it a go, trapping is a learning experiance. Drop me a pm if you want the books.


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## coyote_buster

is this crp ground public or private, becuase i think that thick pheasant grass would be great for snaring, just cut two notches in the top of a five gallon bucket for the connibear to set it and put the bait in the back, drill a hole int he side to wire the connibear to the bucket so it stays there, if you want it dog-proof just wire the bucket to a tree or screw it there, and bend the trigger wires into a v shape or slide them part ways to one side so they brush on it instead of walking right into it, ive noticed that made a difference, also put them in trails in a constricted spot and i like to put a stick underneath it to hold it a few inches off the ground and maybe lay one across the top so they dont try to jump over


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## Bug Guy

Greetings Dick, I thank you for the offer of the reading material and sent you a pm. I posted a longer reply to you, but it hasn't shown up yet. If it didn't get sent right I will post it again.

coyote_buster, the land is private and the grass hip high in about half the area and chest high in the other. Lots of pheasants before last winter and now I'm down about 50%. Deer were down about 30%, mostly the lack of fawns. I am going to try the bucket sets first as they seem to be the most dog proof going to try some live traps for stinkers as they seem to be as plentiful as the pheasants and not too bright. I have lots of coyotes all the time so they will be my main winter target with the snares. They seem to be easier to master than the foot hold sets, but what do I know. (see title of the thread) There are several trails where the main tracks are deer and dog in about equal number. Not a good situation. So far the guy I have hunting the place has taken 14 coyotes this year and all he does is drive by with his truck and take (rifle) them in the surrounding fields, no calling. That is way to many. Thanks for the tip on the set-ups. My strategy is to use the bucket set for *****, live traps for skunks (until I can get better with other methods), and snares for the dogs. Water sets will be aimed mostly at rats to start with as they are more available and if I make a skinning mistake I will have more chances to correct it. I plan on taking before and after photos of my sets and then torturing everyone on the site for advice if they don't work and to brag if they do. I've really liked the photos so far on this site. It keeps my energy level up.


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## moneyshot27

with those trails you mentioned with an equal number of deer and canine tracks, those would be the first places i set snares or traps. i know you don't want to accidently catch deer so i think i can offer a solution.

use a 'jump stick' over these trails. lean a small log over these trails with enough room underneath for a coyote to easily walk under. when deer see these, they'll jump over, thus missing your trap or snare. you can cover the trail by placing one end of the log/stick on the ground and then propping the other end up or tying it to a tree, fence post, etc. if there is nothing around to prop on, you can take two sticks and tie them in an X pattern with the top smaller than the bottom. the top V is where you prop your log.

don't let coyote footholds scare you. you won't figure out how to use them until you set them. and you can't catch fur with traps in your shed. the biggest piece of advice i can give with footholds is to make sure you bed your traps solid. it really does make a world of difference. with hard ground dig your trap bed about 2 inches deeper than you were planning and then back fill it with the loose dirt. you can push your trap in solidly, kind of twisting it as you push it in. then fill dirt around the jaws. just fill all around, don't pack yet. after you have all your dirt around the jaws, start to pack. hold the trap stable with one hand and stuff dirt underneath the jaws and ears with the other. do that to one half of the trap and then switch so your packing hand becomes your stablilizing hand. test your trap by pushing on the ears and soft jaw (jaw that isn't held by the dog). if the trap shifts at all then you need to pack it more.

one thing that helps is to rest your soft jaw on your stake. i like to set my traps with my dog at 6 o'clock to my dirthole/lure. pan covers are also a must. i use coffee filters, their cheap and biodegradible. as far as trap size, i'd recomend #3 coilspring for coyote, #1.75 for anything smaller. make sure to keep your trap lower than the surrounding area. after you have your trap placed and bedded you can use your dirt sifter to see if it's at a good elevation. if the trap snaps, it's too high.

place your trap on the down-wind side of your bait or lure. predators approach from the downwind side at approximately 45 degree angle. i think you're fairly well aware that there are many things you will figure out on your own but i hope this gives you a base guide.


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## Bug Guy

moneyshot, the jump stick is a great idea. Most of the heavy trails go under 3 or 4 strand barbed wire fences so making the deer jump is mandatory for me. I don't want the small ones (deer) going under the fences for obvious reasons. I'm not afraid of the foot hold sets, but I think I will educate fewer coyotes with snares to begin with, but as I said before I plan on screwing everything up when I start out so it may not matter much. Thanks a bunch for the ideas. The more I know, the deeper in trouble the predators get.


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## moneyshot27

shoot, if you've got trails going UNDER the fences, set snares there. those are perfect pinch points for coyotes fox and ****. at fences i like to set my snares about 2 inches off the ground and use grass, sage, or tumbleweeds as blocking on either side of the trail. here in wyoming snares can't be anchored to a wire of a fence so check your local laws. in the beginning of january i caught 3 fox and a **** at fence undercrossings with snares in a week and i only had 5 snares out. i understand you're thinking behind not wanting to educate coyotes with sloppy foothold sets and that's good. but you know, you've got to start somewhere. animals are bound to be educated when you're starting out and what's more, you'll be educated as well.


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## moneyshot27

and by the way, good for you serving the country. a close buddy of mine got out of the navy about 2 years ago serving his deployments primarily in the persian gulf i believe. i can't remember the name of the ship or what type it was, but i know he spent a while chasing the pirates over there only to be called off a few days before a different ship intercepted them. my hat's off to you for doing this country a great service. :beer:


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## coyote_buster

If your going to use box traps.
1. Cover the bottom with dirt, ***** never seem to like stepping on bare wire for me.
2. Set them somewhere so you can make a visible approach to a skunk.
3. Talk calm and walk slowly when approaching the skunk.
4. Watch for stomping feet or turning around for sign they are about to spray.
5. Use two sticks to latch the door shut to let them out of the trap.
6. Shoot them away from the trap so they don't stink it up and it makes shooting them easier.
7. Shoot them once in the back and immediatly in the head. if you hit the spine they don't spray.
I used these methods and i cuaght four in a week and didn't get sprayed by a single one, 2 sprayed and it was away from me and the trap.


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## Bug Guy

I have read about the different methods to prevent skunks from spraying and they all seem to be about 50% effective. If a skunk sprays a trap will it still work for other skunks or do you need a fresh trap. I have read that a fresh set uses a fresh trap, but if it takes a week or so to get a trap scent free, that makes for lots of traps just hanging around de-stinkifying. I would rather have them set out. Like moneyshot said, "you can't catch fur with traps in your shed".


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## coyote_buster

oh you can still use em that doesnt matter i just dont like to take em home end of season or move em when they stink like hell, if you do it like i told you even if they spray you probably wont get directly sprayed, and i like to use sardines in oil as bait, you can get them in some bargain stores for about 65 cents here per tray, they work nice becuase you get to the set pull the lid off and your set, very handy no mess bait


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## Bug Guy

Good to hear coyote_buster. I'll probably get nailed by the stinkers anyway and have to sleep in the shop (LOL), but that will be interesting as well. Seems everyone has their favorite bait too. I have made quite a list of baits just from this forum. Some guys seem to be willing to go to fisticuffs over the best bait for coyote, ****, or whatever. It will be fun trying some of these out in my neck of the woods. I just hope I don't step on another trappers toes when I start. I have no idea if anyone is trapping around me. I guess I will find out soon enough. Is there an unwritten code or something out there for this type of thing or just good ole fashioned common courtesy?


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## coyote_buster

the unwritten code would be to lie when they ask if your gettin anything


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## coyote_buster

you dont want them to know its a good area


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## coyote_buster

actually just tell them you keep catching po'd skunks, that will keep others away


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## coyote_buster

actually, if you run into someone first check and try to get an idea on how experienced they are, if they are pretty decent see if they would help show you a thing or two with footholds, dont take them to the place you want to trap just see if they will make a dummy set in the ditch or something just so you can see the proper way to bed the trap, thats something that i dont think can be effectively done with words or video, and a skunk makes for some great coyote bait, lay it out somewhere where the coyotes are fairly close and try and put it somewhere that travel to it is restricted and just set a couple traps around it, coyotes LOVE skunk


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## barebackjack

And if you use step sticks over your snares, make sure to use something substantial enough to make the deer step or jump over (I go for at least 2-3 fingers in diameter). If its to skinny, they may just try to push through it, thus wrecking the set.

Whatever you use, traps or snares, scent control scent control scent control SCENT CONTROL!


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## Bug Guy

I have been trying to put together my list of stuff I will need and full arm rubber gloves, hip boots, and a shower curtain for a drop cloth are my plans for scent control. I hope that will be good enough to start with. The rest of my experience with scent control I learned from bow hunting.

Coyote_buster, HAHA, I gotcha, if in doubt......stretch the truth. :rollin: With the number of coyotes around my place I doubt there are any other trappers. In fact, I spoke with my aunt who went out to take the dogs for a walk and she came back after about 200 yards as there were so many coyotes howling around her and then she saw 3 of them paralleling her and the dogs as they were walking in the moonlight. Scared her a little as the dogs aren't large breeds. I can't wait to get home and "GET TO WORK" thinning them out. Thanks.


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## ND trapper

moneyshot27 said:


> use a 'jump stick' over these trails. lean a small log over these trails...


I agree. I don't use jump sticks much but when I do I try to use the largest log possible and with in reason. Small branches are horrible jump sticks. Deer are use to pushing through small branches all the time but a larger log or branch will make them go around your set.


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## Bug Guy

The trail I would need to have the jump stick on has no cover anywhere around it, but hip high grass. Won't the dog know something is different and go around if suddenly there is two big sticks in the road? Probably a dumb question, but deer snort at ground blinds for awhile after they are built. Thanks.


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## moneyshot27

they might be suspicious of the set up for a while. patience would be key then. or it might go the other way and work as a visual attractor. it's hard to say. you could even get creative with it and add some suspended bait to the jump stick, high enough off the ground so that the coyote can't reach without some effort. the best thing you can do is start out basic, and if that doesn't work, experiment. oh, and make sure you have good J-hooks on your swivels or some shock springs. coyotes can fight hard enough to pull most stock hooks open. i lost a mink, 110 coni, and a brand new trap and coyote yesterday due to a weak J-hook. the coyote ate the mink and hid my coni before getting pinched 20 yards away in my coyote set and then taking that trap too.


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## Bug Guy

Thanks for more insights moneyshot27. It's great to have a veteran explain things a bit. If I ask to many questions, I won't be upset if you finally say "just get out there and get dirty". I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate you taking your time to help a newbie. I just ordered Sullivans books and videos. I think I got them all. LOL. Anyway, I thought this would be a better start before I start buying traps. I looked at several trapping supply stores and was trying to find out the difference between a Duke, Bridger, and some other trap brands besides price. The Dukes seem to be cheaper everywhere I looked, but I don't necessarily want cheap. I want quality stuff that will last. I also am trying to buy American, but most traps were made overseas. Any thoughts you would be willing to share?


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## coyote_buster

I dont do very much with foot traps, but i do belive bridger and victor are good traps, duke is you get what you pay for, look into the longspring vs. coil spring, one is probably better suited for you than the other, and look into things you can do to make the traps better, extra swivels springs bigger j hooks, quad spring traps, there is alot of things you can do to a trap to make it work better or quiker


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## Bug Guy

Hey coyote_buster, thanks for jumping in. It really helps when trying to make decisions to hear it from someone who's been around. I didn't realize how ignorant I really am about trapping. There is much more detail and complexity than I first anticipated, which is good. I guess I will have a more solid base when the books and DVD's get here. After that I may be able to formulate more coherent and intelligent questions. Thanks again.

Moneyshot, sorry to hear about the busted up set. How often does that kind of thing happen? Losing traps can get a bit costly.


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## ND trapper

I know they are not made in the USA but for the money, Bridgers are hard to beat. For **** in the water I go with the Duke 1.5. Why the Duke 1.5? They are cheaper so I can buy more of them which means I can run more sets and a **** in the water does not beat a trap like a coyote on land does. On land the Dukes can get bent out of shape fairly fast depending on the animal. However, I have had good success on coyotes with the modified Duke 1.75. Regardless of what trap brand you use, I recommend using extra swivels and a shock spring. 4 coiled traps are not needed in my opinion unless you are trapping in freezing temperatures but that is only my opinion. I know a few good trappers that swear by them. I think you are headed in the right direction. Excited to learn and not afraid to ask questions. You also appear to be very respectful and thank those that give advice. You don't see that a whole lot anymore. If you have a question please don't hesitate to ask. As you already know, there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum and they enjoy helping a guy out.


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## Bug Guy

NDtrapper, Thanks for the response. I have been doing some more internet info digging and it seems that bridgers are a bit more respected than dukes as far as land sets go. However, just as you said, Dukes are predominantly water sets for most of the guys that posted their experiences. I guess my initial plans are to get the parts and get a few snares made for dogs, get a dozen or so 220 coni's in bucket sets for *****, some lil griz traps (just because I want to see a **** in one), and a dozen or so 1.5 dukes for rats. I saw a video on how to make weasel traps and I might give that a try too. I will also get a half dozen bridgers for land sets and see how that goes.

I was going over fur handling equipment too. It is a good thing I have a 30 X 60 heated/AC and insulated shop to keep all the traps, chains, parts, knives, boards, pins, dyes, waxes, buckets, and misc. equipment and supplies in. Not that I know how to use any of this stuff yet. Hopefully it will have a pelt or two as well. 

Yea, I pretty excited to get going. I have been talking about learning how to trap for too long now and being grateful to people for helping out when they don't have to is how I was raised. My kids will be the same way. I'm waiting until the books and videos arrive before I bother anyone with questions whose answers are probably found in those materials. This trapping stuff is great! I can't wait to get out in the dirt and start making mistakes :rollin:

I hope you season is going well. Catch a bunch.


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## moneyshot27

i lose a couple traps here and there, and they have all been due to theft except for this last one. just teaches me to make my sets farther away from the road. after i lost this last trap i built some shock springs and put them on all my traps. i remade the set that i lost my trap at today, so hopefully i can get the culprit (though highly unlikely).

i use bridgers and dukes. as a rule of thumb, most traps you get are going to need at least a little bit of modification. i like using my bridgers for land. i also use duke 1.75's on land but only for fox and ****. if there's a chance a coyote will come along i won't use duke. my biggest complaint with the dukes is that the pan sits way too high and there's alot of creep. this is where the modification comes in. the only modification i do to my bridgers (most of the time) is i file the dogs a little shorter and replace the swivels. i've found that the dogs on bridgers tend to be a little bit long and sometimes won't release the trap when the pan's all the way down.

if you are planning on trapping 'rats, i'd pick up some 110 coni's. 'rats are way easy and pretty fun. plus, if you're lucky you'll snag a mink. good luck!


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## Bug Guy

Darn it, I forgot about those. Thanks moneyshot for the "I shoulda had a V8" moment. I'm adding them to the order list right now.

Modifying a trap when I don't really know how to use them out of the box. This should be good. Snapped fingers and blood blisters here I come  . I better tell the wife to stock up on band aids LOL! With the 110's and 1.5's I was thinking of combining duck hunting with trapping. Duck hunt, then set traps for rats and such, then come back the next day to duck hunt then check and reset traps. Repeat. I don't know if it is a good idea, but it sure will be a good time finding out. Thanks again.


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## ND trapper

Bug Guy said:


> Duck hunt, then set traps for rats and such, then come back the next day to duck hunt then check and reset traps.


I tried that. It worked pretty good until the anticipation of checking traps became to much to bare. Before I knew it I was checking traps as soon as I got out there. Trapping is highly addictive...lol


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## Bug Guy

Highly Addictive you say.....OH GREAT!!! I'll just add that to the list. :thumb: With fur prices as they are, it would have to be an addiction. At least I know the duck hunting/trapping thing does work. Thanks ND trapper.


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## moneyshot27

i take some 110's with me when i hunt deer in the fall and like ND Trapper, often the anticipation of checking traps outweighs what you're hunting. as said before, trapping isn't a passion or even an obsession. it's an addiction. if you can control yourself though, it makes sense to take traps when you're hunting something else.


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## Bug Guy

I can see it now...Some numb head will see me in blaze orange, carrying traps, and will say "Goin trappin?"....... NOPE gonna lay these out so I can find my way back to the truck... Here's your sign.


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## Bug Guy

Well I just recieved my books and videos from Sullivan. I watched them all right away. The snaring video raised a question for me. Does a snare damage the pelt any? Body snaring ***** and beaver seemed to me to have that potential as well as that occaisional hip catch on a coyote. Thanks.


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## moneyshot27

the only 'damage' snares will do to pelts is put a line on them if the snare's on too long. you can only see the line on the flesh side and usually they aren't too bad. some hair will pull out around the snare lock but usually nothing noticable.


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## Bug Guy

Thanks Moneyshot, Sorry to pester everyone, but one here's one more. Does this line create a weak spot in the hide that I would need to be careful of when fleshing it? I ask because in the video Hal tore a hole in a pelt fleshing and he said if was a scar. Thanks again.


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## coyote_buster

i had a **** in a snare and had him out of it by 8 in the morning and the buyer noticed it was in a snare without me sayin anything and this was on the fur, he said it brings down the value of the fur so if your doin alot i would just as soon spend the extra time nd use other traps


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## Bug Guy

Bummer Coyote, if the snare does that, what the heck does a conibear do? That puts twice as many marks if you get'em good?


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## moneyshot27

i've never had any problems fleshing around snare lines as far as tearing. i'm not suprised that he put a hole where a scar was, that scar tissue can be pretty hard and any time you hit something hard while fleshing you can put a hole in the hide. that's why it's so important to brush the fur out before you do any fleshing. even dried blood can make a bump on the hair side and cause you to put a hole in the pelt. and speaking of coni's, they do put some marks on the flesh side that show up pretty easy. not so much with 110's, but they're very prominant with 330's and 220's. if it's cold out when you have a catch in a coni on land (which it usually is) don't try to take the critter out of the trap until you can let it thaw. the hair will freeze to the steel. also be careful when picking up dead critters when it's frozen out, i had a fox in a snare on frozen ground and i wasn't paying attention and when i picked him up a patch of hair about the size of my palm came off his flank. that'll teach me!

coyote-buster, that's the damndest thing. your fur buyer must really know his stuff.


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## coyote_buster

yeah i probably should have brushed through them but mine are pretty much all dryland and have never had a problem with mud or burs in them, he told me a coni will leave marks to but he personally doesnt think they are as bad becuase a **** will spend so much time struggling in a snare and in a coni they might kick around for a minute but not so much, he said that since mine was high up on the **** he wasnt to worried about it just warning me, so if you use them, really shoot for a neck catch


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## barebackjack

Much of the snare damage comes from the animal struggling. Using a well thought out snare design (fast cable, and non-relaxing locks equipped with some sort of dispatch spring) GREATLY reduces struggle time, which GREATLY reduces snare damage. That is, if the snare is set properly.

Stay away from washer locks, use a good non-relaxing lock, learn how to properly set the snares for the target species, and youll get VERY quick kills and minimal damage.

I experimented with some different snare designs, and for coyotes, nothing beats a non-relaxing lock and a dispatch spring. Most of my catches showed evidence of little to no struggle. Theres was very little noticeable fur damage, no water heads and swelled up necks (which make skinning a b*tch), and no evidence of cable chewing (which makes me believe they were unconscious VERY fast). The old style washer or penny locks with no kill spring were a different story. Ill never go back to them.


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## coyote_buster

thanks bareback, thats probably my problem becuase they are a washer lock style that i have, if i get more i will try a different lock design but washer was the only thing my local store had, and the minimized struggle time is probably why he didnt mention conibears becuase them are lights out quick


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