# Who are the anti gun?



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Remember one of our liberal friends on here was upset because I always paint liberals as gun grabers? I know some are not, but the majority are. 
Do any of you get Guns & Ammo? So from the pro gun magazines who do you think they support? Then ask yourself why you would see an ad like this one on page 99 of the September issue.



> Some "Change" we can do without
> 
> Barack Obama Has Supported:
> 
> ...


So what do the liberals here think about an ad in a pro-gun magazine like that. Facts are facts, and that is Obama's record.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

Shooting Times is running the same full page add.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ooooo, wheres R y a n?


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Ryan is :koolaid: :stirpot:

Can we get an Emotion showing the head in the sand :lol:


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

come on ryan, where's your stuff, son? ........(followed by a deafening silence)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Actually it's BigDaddy that thinks I am not painting a true picture of liberals.


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Plainsman,

Can you post up the bills where Obama has voted on these bans? I guess I am not aware of any federal bills such as these?

I'm not saying he hasn't or that he is not anti gun, I am just curious to see what these bills were and how others voted on them.

Thanks.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

HUNTNFISHND said:


> Plainsman,
> 
> Can you post up the bills where Obama has voted on these bans? I guess I am not aware of any federal bills such as these?
> 
> ...


I wouldn't have the least idea how to find them. Is the Senate voting record on line? Does anyone know? Were all his votes where he supported these things in the Senate, or were some at the state level?


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

Barack Obama's Gun-Related Votes The U.S. Senate Debated: Obama
Voted: 
Supporting concealed carry for citizens10 Anti-gun 
Banning many common semi-automatic firearms11 Anti-gun 
Disallowing self-defense in towns where guns are banned12 Anti-gun 
Imposing one handgun a month restrictions13 Anti-gun 
Requiring lock up your safety trigger locks14 Anti-gun 
Protecting gun dealers from frivolous lawsuits15 Anti-gun 
Outlawing gun confiscations during a national emergency16 Pro-gun 
Squelching the free speech rights of gun owners17 Anti-gun 
Restricting the interstate sales of firearms18 Anti-gun 
Repealing the gun ban in Washington, DC19 Anti-gun

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1Associated Press, "Research finds Cheney, Obama distant cousins," October 17, 2007.

2Ibid.

3O.Kay Henderson, "Three leading Democrats talk about gun control," Radio Iowa News, April 22, 2007.

4James Oliphant and Michael J. Higgins, "Court to hear gun case," Chicago Tribune, November 20, 2007.

5Illinois State Senate, vote on SB 2165 (41-16), May 25, 2004.

6Obama says, "National legislation will prevent other states' flawed concealed-weapons laws from threatening the safety of Illinois residents." David Mendell, "Democratic hopefuls vary a bit on death penalty," Chicago Tribune, February 20, 2004.

7See the Gun Owners of America fact sheet at http://www.gunowners.org/fs0404.htm.

8John Chase, "Keyes, Obama are far apart on guns; Views on assault weapons at odds," Chicago Tribune, September 15, 2004.

9Senators Chuck Schumer and John Kerry had both cosponsored S. 1431 in 2003, a bill that would have banned any semi-auto shotgun that also contained a pistol grip, which the bill defined as "a grip, a thumbhole stock, or any other characteristic that can function as a grip." According to that definition, just about any semi-automatic shotgun would be banned.

10See supra note 6.

11About the so-called "assault weapons" ban, Obama says, "I believe we need to renew -- not roll back -- this common sense gun law." See supra note 8.

12See supra note 5.

13As a state senator, "Obama regularly supported gun-control measures, including a ban on semiautomatic 'assault weapons' and a limit on handgun purchases to one a month." "Obama Record May be Gold Mine for Critics," Associated Press, January 17, 2007.

14On July 28, 2005, Senator Obama voted for a provision requiring gun dealers to include the sale of a lock-up-your-safety device with every handgun sold. The amendment, offered by Sen. Herb Kohl (D-WI), passed by a vote of 70-30. The provision amended the gun makers' protection act (S. 397).

15On July 29, 2005, Senator Obama voted against S. 397, a bill that was designed to put an end to the frivolous lawsuits that were threatening to put many gun dealers out of business. While an argument could be made that a pro-gun Senator might vote against this bill because it contained a lock-up-your-safety provision (see supra note 14), the fact that Obama voted in favor of that trigger lock amendment (but against the overall bill) indicates his real animus against helping gun dealers protect themselves from the anti-gun lawsuits that were aimed at driving them into bankruptcy.

16On July 13, 2006, Sen. Obama voted for Emergency Powers language that saw only 16 of the most ardent anti-gun senators vote against it. The amendment provides that no money can be used by federal agents to confiscate firearms during a declared state of emergency. The amendment was added to the Department of Homeland Security appropriations bill (HR 5441).

17On January 18, 2007, Senator Obama voted against a pro-gun amendment to strike language in S. 1 that would infringe upon the free speech rights of groups like Gun Owners of America. The amendment, which passed, struck requirements that would have required GOA to monitor and report on its communications with its members, and could easily have led to government demands for GOA's membership list (a.k.a. registration).

18Obama has frequently made statements which indicate that he would restrict the interstate sale of firearms. For example, he told the NAACP that, "We've got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren't loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they're not made in our communities. There aren't any gun manufacturers here, right here in the middle of Detroit." Senator Barack Obama, at the NAACP Presidential Primary Forum, July 12, 2007.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)




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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

Here is a quick run down of Obama's gun votes:

1. Voted AGAINST a law in IL that would protect home owners who use firearms to stop a home invasion!!!! Obama wants law abiding people in prison, to protect crack heads that break into people's homes!!!

2. Obama opposes Concealed Carry permits NATIONWIDE, even though only select applicants with training and extensive background checks can get licenses. Apparently, Obama is once again putting the rights of criminals, gang members, and drug dealers ahead of the safety of private, law abiding citizens!

3. Obama states that "34 school-age kids were shot with handguns in ****cago". What Obama FAILS to say is that ****cago BANNED ALL HANDGUNS years ago!!! So in Obama's mind, ALL GUNS EVERYWHERE MUST BE BANNED, since a single city ban has only made the shootings a daily occurrence!

Here is his idiotic speech on the matter: YouTube - Obama And The Second Amendment

4. Gun Law News reported that Senator Barack Obama served on the board of directors for the anti-gun "Joyce Foundation". Obama's ties to one of the deep pockets that fund anti-gun groups across this country, he lies repeatedly about this!! He denies being anti-gun "just because he sat on a board of a group". Yeah right!

5. During his days as a state legislator in Illinois, Obama was a HUGE fan of gun bans and regulation on law abiding citizens ONLY (criminals are fully armed, with lawyers ready to sue people who defend their families and property against criminals).

Obama supported a ban on all semi-automatic firearms, and wanted to increase the already-draconian laws regarding firearms purchases in Illinois.

6. Obama was also in favor of renewing the Clinton gun ban back in 2004!!

7. Obama opposed the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. This law was designed to stop trial lawyer junk lawsuits against gun companies. Think about this: Obama wants trial lawyers to ban guns by bankrupting all gun manufacturers. This would be the ultimate gun ban, no doubt about it!!

If you think about this, should we sue knife manufacturers if a kid stabs himself with a knife? Can we sue pen and pencil manufacturers if a kid pokes its eye out with a pen or pencil? Can we sue gas companies for making the fuel that powered a car that ran someone over? Can we sue car companies for making cars that cause accidents and kill people? Can we sue workout dumbbell companies because someone dropped a dumbbell on someone's foot??

Obama seems to think so!!

8. Barack Obama supports handgun registration!

This was widely used by the Nazis as a way to be able to fully confiscate every law abiding citizen's weapons! By registering guns, the government can waltz in and take every weapon from law abiding citizens in a heartbeat! This made it possible for Hitler to install a totalitarian regime in Germany and massacre Jews without resistance.

We saw it during Katrina, how the Fascist Democrats (Ray "Dumbass" Nagin) sent out the Gestappo and it's corrupt police force to forcibly disarm law abiding citizens, while criminals terrorized the streets and killed disarmed people!!

I will add more later. After all, if I were to write about every time Obama has banned guns and then tried to LIE to gun owners about it (like he did during the Idaho primary), I'd be up here alllllll night long!

SO NOW IT'S YOUR TURN:

WILL OBAMA'S SOLIDLY ANTI-GUN RECORD CHANGE YOUR VOTE ON HIM??


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have heard many people say that a taxpayer voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders. I might also add that a gun owner voting for Obama is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Yeah, it does not look good for gun owners over the next 4 years. Especially when you look at McCains record too!

http://www.gunowners.org/mccaintb.htm

:eyeroll:

Are we ever going to get a true conservative candidate again?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Still no R y a n? 

Well i guess those facts are pretty hard to defend.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

true, he is conspicuously absent when there is NO-defense for NO-bama.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

still waiting........no reply from ryan.. :lol:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

barebackjack said:


> Still no R y a n?
> 
> Well i guess those facts are pretty hard to defend.


Just saw this post.

It's hard to keep track with h94 spamming the politics forum with lots of threads that noone replies to...

I've stated much of my thoughts before about voting for any particular candidate. I've stated that I vote on more issues than just guns. There is no doubt that McCain is the better candidate when it comes to the gun issue(s). I've have never stated otherwise.

That doesn't make him the best candidate however overall. I think any objective person can see that.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

*yes, by all means, let's get behind a candidate that will supress our constitutional rights that so many have died for....the only marching 
NO-bama has ever done is to the beat of Marxism!

NO-defense for No-bama here.....just more change.*

*and for ryan, if he has no defense, it's just spam! brilliant!!*


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

R y a n said:


> That doesn't make him the best candidate however overall. I think any objective person can see that.


And I would think an "objective" person would be able to see through Obamas wishy washy, "say what they want to hear" politics.

Not to say McCain isnt wishy washy, hes flip flopped his fair share too, but come on, Obama has reversed several of his original MAJOR political stances in the last month!

Why is it that democrats always seem to be 100% "whole-heartedly" and "blindly" behind "their" candidate? RARELY do I hear a democrat admit to the downfalls of "their" candidate. In their eyes, "their" candidate can do no harm. Is it ignorance? Brainwashed? What?
I have several other democrat friends, they are EXACTLY the same way. And always the FIRST to jump down the throat of someone that doesnt agree.
Seriously, their like mindless sheep. Follow the leader right off the cliff. :eyeroll:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

barebackjack said:


> R y a n said:
> 
> 
> > That doesn't make him the best candidate however overall. I think any objective person can see that.
> ...


I'm close to calling Odrama a wishy washy flip flopper too... except that I like his flipped position on oil, and I hope to see him keep that position. At least we'll have cheaper energy long term.

The D's don't blindly follow any candidate. That is why they booted Hillary. Now that you guys have Obama to pick apart, you've entirely forgotten about her.

I've never stated Odrama can do no harm. Noone is perfect. However Odrama has many many things McCan't doesn't. His brighter, better educated, is sharp on his feet, well spoken, takes advice from counsel and isn't a total Maverick. That isn't drinking any kind of Kool Aid. It is things that he is simply better at then McCan't.

I've yet to hear anyone argue those points otherwise.

Please tell me:

1. Is McCain more intelligent than Obama? Straight across the board? NO political agenda skewing your opinion? Truthfully?
2. Is McCain better educated? Was the education he earned merit based or handed to him because of familial power? How about Obama? 
3. Who handles non scripted questions better? Who handles the pressure about being asked tough questions? Who stutters, stumbles, forgets?
4. Who is articulate, forms his thoughts coherently, and presents an argument in an understandable manner?
5. Who runs a better more respected campaign? Who has a better group of advisors? Who seems to be speaking about his platform vs who seems to be attacking the other?

After carefully considering those questions, you can fully appreciate my points.

Ryan


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I'm close to calling Odrama a wishy washy flip flopper too... except that I like his flipped position on oil, and I hope to see him keep that position.


I'll give you the answer to that Ryan. After 60 years on this earth I can tell you that what you do is look back a year and see what politicians supported. As soon as they are elected that's what they will normally support. Especially if that's what their party supports. Recently McCain switched his stand on drilling. The vast majority of conservative people want drilling, the republican politicians in Washington want drilling, and you can bet if elected McCain will not dare back out of his new stand on drilling. Obama on the other hand belongs to a party that is currently trying to block a vote on drilling. You can bet the day he is elected he will back out of his new found fondness for drilling. If you think otherwise you need to be more realistic.



> 1. Is McCain more intelligent than Obama? Straight across the board? NO political agenda skewing your opinion? Truthfully?


Obama speaks well, but I have seen no evidence of outstanding intellect. Truthfully if he doesn't have a prepared speech he doesn't do well. Also, not respecting the constitution, thinking he can tax us to prosperity all lend themselves to a person that is perhaps less intelligent. Yes, I think Obama is stupid.



> 2. Is McCain better educated? Was the education he earned merit based or handed to him because of familial power? How about Obama?


I think Obama just has a law degree not a doctorate. Besides education is not a measure of intelligence, it's simply a matter of training. Also, education is only good for the field your educated in. A nuclear scientist knows no more about botany than a highs school graduate. As far as I know there are no classes offered in President 101.



> 3. Who handles non scripted questions better? Who handles the pressure about being asked tough questions? Who stutters, stumbles, forgets?


I would have to say McCain does better sometimes and Obama does better sometimes. I watched Obama when asked a question out of script he would have made Bush look eloquent.



> 4. Who is articulate, forms his thoughts coherently, and presents an argument in an understandable manner?


If they are off the cuff and unprepared for I would say McCain, but then he has been speaking in the senate for far more years. I am afraid that Obama has good writers and practices a lot. Why else would there be such a disparity between his prepared speeches and responses to unexpected questions?



> 5. Who runs a better more respected campaign? Who has a better group of advisors? Who seems to be speaking about his platform vs who seems to be attacking the other?


McCain hands down. Obama played the race card like a little kid cheating at checkers. Facts by either candidate are not attacks. Calling them attacks means there is no good response so he cries fowl.



> After carefully considering those questions, you can fully appreciate my points.


In all honesty, I would say you need to do a lot more thinking. Most of your points indicate to me they were made emotionally for a particular candidate you like. All of us look at all the things a candidate stands for. Simply because we mention guns don't mean we are single issue voters. It simply means that we put our second amendment rights high as one of our many priorities. I think Obama is wrong on guns, I think he is wrong on taxes, I think he is wrong on immigration, I think he is wrong on defense, I think he is wrong on Iraq, I think he is wrong on choosing who to associate with, I think he is wrong on many things. It takes super poor judgment to be wrong on so many things. That or you have to be so far left you are beyond socialism. I think America would suffer greatly with this person.

I think liberals are panicking. Many went to the caucuses to vote for our republican candidate. Many republicans did the same thing to democrats. We realize what happened to us, but the liberals even though they started the game haven't got a clew that it happened to them also. They think the entire nation is in love with their candidate. Only when his poll numbers started to decline did they become concerned. Now many of the more true thinking and less emotional liberals are beginning to think. Obama is to far left for many of the Reagan democrats. Today I would have to say he is going to loose.

Why is it that liberals think they are such intellectuals? Hillary was the worlds smartest woman, Kerry's wife was an absolute genius, now we hear how super intelligent Obama's wife is. Well neither Kerry's wife nor Obama's are smart enough to know when to keep their mouth shut, and we all now know Hillary isn't the worlds smartest woman. Not only that, they always condemn the conservatives as stupid. Some can't spell potato and others stumble on their words.

I could go on, but then this is about guns and Obama. I offer my answers respectfully, truthfully, and not simply to argue. If this isn't what I thought I would be for Obama. As you know I don't much like McCain. I thought his childish actions when he didn't get the nomination ahead of Bush were disgraceful.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

R y a n said:


> I'm close to calling Odrama a wishy washy flip flopper too... except that I like his flipped position on oil, and I hope to see him keep that position. At least we'll have cheaper energy long term.
> 
> The D's don't blindly follow any candidate. That is why they booted Hillary. Now that you guys have Obama to pick apart, you've entirely forgotten about her.
> 
> ...


Plainsman is dead on. Look at what Obama stood for before this whole homecoming queen race started. That will very likely be what he reverts back to.

First off, Hillary is not your candidate. She was merely a candidate to be THE candidate. If Hillary was THE candidate, im sure the D's would be blindly following her off the cliff.

Second, how do you know Obama is brighter, quicker on his feet, more well spoken, and takes counsel better? Hes a junior senator. He hasnt had much of any time in any major office (plus the fact hes been campaigning most of his tenure in office) to really show anyone what hes REALLY like. And anyone can be good in front of a crowd with a teleprompter, professionaly pre-written speeches, a couple speech classes and toastmasters. What you see on TV is polished to a high luster, but I assure you, put him in cold, no prep time, no cue cards, off the cuff questions (oh yeah, didnt you know, alot of those questions are cleared ahead of time so a proper eloguent response can be written up) and see what happens. Oh wait, it did, and it was hilarious.

To answer your questions:

1. I really do believe their both intelligent men.
2. Education does not necessarily mean you know anything. It means your good at remembering things and looking things up. I know people with college degrees that are useless. A wonder they graduated, but they did. Experience speaks volumes over education, and McCains got it, in spades.
3. McCain. 
4. Both, but an edge goes to Obama in the usual venues, McCain in off the cuff moments.
5. Neither. Its the presidential race man, theres no room for respect!  Seriously, they both bug me in this department. As far as advisors, I dont know, I can say some of the company Obama keeps is not the greatest.

Since alot of your reasons to love Obama seem to be related to how he apparently "carries" himself, and speaks in public, ill remind you of another world leader who carried himself well, was a great public speaker, and was able to wow the crowds, his name was Adolf Hitler.

Theres more to being president than speeches.


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## Bgunit68 (Dec 26, 2006)

Ryan, I must compliment you. You write very well. You should be a journalist for the New York Times. You can spin just about anything. You could write an article on how Bin Laden is just a misunderstood family man who likes long walks on a beach somewhere. It sounds like you are cheering Obama for his flip flop. Like he is really going to stick to his words. Ok we'll just go by his record. Oh that's right he really has none. If I'm not mistake one of the first elections he won he did so by getting the other candidates disqualified. He has been stead fast about oil. All of a sudden he drops 9 points and is in a dead heat with McCain. Now he is for domestic oil (until he gets elected). He is a wolf in sheep's clothing. He scares me more than any other candidate in the past. I don't often interject. I mostly like just reading these posts. Plainsman, Hunter9494 and CWO all speak my beliefs along with a few others. Granted Hunter is a lot more passionate. But it's not spam. A lot of the posts Hunter puts out don't require a responding. Hey I like to joke and add stupid little harmless comments. But this crap is serious. Obama is a candidate that will lie his way to the Presidency and do things the way he wants to afterward. If he gets in he will be tested. Not by us but by foreign countries to see how weak he is and how much they can get away with. In today's world we need a leader that will defend this country not go and have tea and biscuits with Ahmadinejad.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

You guys may be worrying about the wrong problems with this guy. His wife was never proud of America until she realized she had a legitimate chance to be the first lady. His own words in his own book certainly make him appear to be a racist. He doesn't even try to hide his ambitions to "redistribute wealth" (other than his own). He counters claims of possible ties with radical Muslims by professing to be a devout Christian, but didn't notice the preacher at his church was a racist until after the rest of us realized it...etc., etc.

Nope.....I agree with Ryan.....guns is not the most important issue in this case!!!!!!!!!

uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Actually it's BigDaddy that thinks I am not painting a true picture of liberals.


LOL

:lol:

Thanks for the clarification Plainsman. Most folks here mistakenly think of me as being the most liberal on this forum.

Not. Even. Close.

Geesshhh guys. Pay attention.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Not you Ryan. Yor just here to oke: :stirpot: but that's hard on us ole folks with high blood presurre


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

zogman said:


> Not you Ryan. Yor just here to oke: :stirpot: but that's hard on us ole folks with high blood presurre


 :lol: thanks Zogman!


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

R y a n said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > Actually it's BigDaddy that thinks I am not painting a true picture of liberals.
> ...


ok, maybe not most liberal, just most misguided! :beer:


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