# Liberalism failing in California



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

These fools have been increasing spending even when in the red. They just don't get it. They pay out $5 billion a year for illegal aliens. Let Mexifornia fail. In that capacity they can serve as an example of what liberalism gets you.

For the full story: 
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 1008.story



> Reporting from Sacramento -- With lawmakers still unable to deliver a budget after three days of intense negotiations, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger prepared to lay off 10,000 government workers and his administration said it would halt the last 275 state-funded public works projects still in operation.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> They pay out $5 billion a year for illegal aliens.


Not by choice. Most of the money is lost in the schools, medical treatment, and social programs. Besides sales tax, they aren't paying taxes. BTW, the last I heard it was $14 billion for the last fiscal year, not five.

Illegal immigration is a problem that has been ignored by Republicans and Democrats alike at the federal level. And why do you think that is?

So is this a case of 'liberalism' failing in CA, or a case of a bigger catastrophe caused by inaction at the federal level? Not to mention, the depression has hit them pretty hard (just like everywhere else). As the economy continues to tank, states are going to continue to fall into the red. It's not just CA that's in a world of hurt.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

but California is simply the worst case, of everything that is wrong with illegal immigration, liberalism and greening at the cost of everyday citizens, American citizens. i know a lot of folks who are just getting the hell out, no matter the cost, the future of being a resident of that state is headed for hell, higher taxes and more crime....no thanks.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Illegal immigration is a problem that has been ignored by Republicans and Democrats alike at the federal level. And why do you think that is?


I think it's because they are both competing for their votes. Even if they are illegal, many also vote illegally. Especially with the help of ACORN. Also, many of the democrats and republicans like the cheap labor. We need term limits bad.



> So is this a case of 'liberalism' failing in CA, or a case of a bigger catastrophe caused by inaction at the federal level?


The feds certainly are partially to blame, but liberalism in California is what makes the difference between places like California and North Dakota. Some of the things you mentioned like health care and schools may not be something California can control, but California goes beyond what the federal government requires of them. They have a number of cities that proclaim themselves refuge. No, liberalism is making California fail. At least fail in a more rapid fashion.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> I think it's because they are both competing for their votes. Even if they are illegal, many also vote illegally. Especially with the help of ACORN. Also, many of the democrats and republicans like the cheap labor. We need term limits bad.


That is certainly part of it. The bigger picture is this; mexicans represent a cheap, exploitable labor pool. They wouldn't be in our country if American business owners weren't profiting off them and hiring them. The people employing them have money, and pull. If we want to stop illegal immigration we need to go after the source...the businesses who employ them.



> So is this a case of 'liberalism' failing in CA, or a case of a bigger catastrophe caused by inaction at the federal level?





Plainsman said:


> The feds certainly are partially to blame, but liberalism in California is what makes the difference between places like California and North Dakota. Some of the things you mentioned like health care and schools may not be something California can control, but California goes beyond what the federal government requires of them. They have a number of cities that proclaim themselves refuge. No, liberalism is making California fail. At least fail in a more rapid fashion.


We've discussed this before. I don't think ND is really doing that great, at least in regards to how it's being run by our politicians. This state relies heavily on federal subsidies for one and it'd be bankrupt without them. The real reason why ND is currently in the black right now is solely due to geography. ND is blessed in that it has oil underneath it. Saying ND is doing well fiscally because how it is run is like saying Saudi Arabia is doing well fiscally because how it's run. It's easy to balance a budget when you have a ton of oil tax revenue. You take away the oil money and federal subsidies and the rosy economic forecast the state is looking at would be a Massive deficit. Not as big as California's...but then again, the state has a much smaller economy. But per capita it might be worse.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plainsman wrote:
> I think it's because they are both competing for their votes. Even if they are illegal, many also vote illegally. Especially with the help of ACORN. Also, many of the *democrats and republicans like the cheap labor*. We need term limits bad.


Matt wrote:


> The bigger picture is this; mexicans represent a cheap, exploitable labor pool.





> We've discussed this before. I don't think ND is really doing that great, at least in regards to how it's being run by our politicians.


OK, lets get into specifics. California does more for illegal aliens than the feds require. Most conservative states do not. California will not allow refineries. Most conservative states would. California has stricter regulations on gasoline blends, most other states do not. California simply has more regulations than most states. Regulations that make simple things more expensive. Regulations that strangle business, drive other businesses out of state, reducing their revenue. They simply shoot themselves in the economic head. They are spending more every day while they are taking in less every day, and they are to dumb to stop before it's to late.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Sorry Plainsman, I don't know how I missed that you had already pointed out the cheap labor point.

All I'm trying to get at, is that it is pretty easy to point at CA and blame their current state on liberalism. But they've always been liberal. When they had a big surplus in the late 90's was it also due to liberalism?

There's what, 6 states with their proposed budgets in the black? The bigger the economy, the bigger the deficit right now. CA would be the world's eigth largest economy if it was a country. So it makes sense that they're also going to be facing the biggest budget crisis.

The country...make that the world is in a depression. The only states that are operating in a surplus are like ND; small in population, high in subsidies, with valuable natural resources. The reason why they're doing better than the rest of the country has very little to do with how they've been run.

With that being said, I'm not heralding CA as some great state without problems. I'm sure there's a good chunk of that deficit that can be attributed to stupidity at the state level. But I think it's innaccurate to point at them and say, "Look! This is where 'liberalism' gets you!" Because it's not that black and white.


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