# Grouping with my new Savage 25-06



## walexa07 (Dec 7, 2006)

The savage 112 VLP I got last week in 25-06 is not grouping as well as I thought it should.

I outfitted it with a leupold VX-L 3.5x10x56. Best 3-shot group so far is 1MOA at 100 yards. I bought 5 different boxes of ammo, 117 to 120 gr, and have shot some rounds out of each box except one of them. The rounds are listed as follows:

Remington PSP core lokt 120 gr
Federal premium vital shok SPBT 117 gr
Federal Fusion 120 gr
Winchester positive expanding point 120 gr
Hornady SPBT 120 gr

The one I haven't shot any of is the Federal Fusion. Of the other 4, the Hornady is performing the best. About every 10 rounds I pull a bore snake through 3 times. How many shots at a time before barrel heat becomes a problem? Should I be using copper solvent to clean the barrel pretty often?

Any and all suggestions to decrease group size is greatly appreciated.

Waylan


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

The speed with which you shoot your groups is directly related to the ambient temp. The hotter the day, the slower you should shoot. If it gets 80ish or above I like no faster than 1 shot per minute for load testing.

Have you adjusted the accu-trigger (I'm assuming you have that option)?

What are you using for a rest?

As far as cleaning goes, my favorite cleaner goes, I've really become a fas of Bore Tech Eliminator. It gets out copper, lead, and powder fouling quickly, but without the harsh solvents that can ruin a stock finish, and no need for bronze brushes, you use nylon with this product. I follow the directions on the bottle exactly with one exception, I will make 3x-4x more passes through the barrel with the nylon brush than they've called for. 30-50 passes during a cleaning session seems about right, rather than the 10-15 they call for.

With a new barrel it's hard to say how often it should be cleaned, they're all different. I'd probably clean it somewhere near 20rounds or so and see how it fouls. If you're not getting much, double your round count before you clean again.

For what it's worth. My 223's go 200+ rounds between cleanings. My 22-250 will go 50-60 and groups begin to open a bit. My 243 will go 60-80 and begins to open. 270 and 300Win both get 40-50 shots between cleanings, they might be able to go longer but this seems to work out well.


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## walexa07 (Dec 7, 2006)

For a rest, I'm using a shooters ridge deluxe rifle rest from cabelas. It works ok, but I have ordered a caldwell rock with the correct front and rear bags to try and improve. The problem with the shooters ridge rest is that it is short........and this gun is long.........and the shooters ridge rest is not super stable.

A friend of mine recommended a 3-shot group w/o waiting between shots and then wait 5-10 minutes before another group, and that's what I've been doing.

It does have the accutrigger and it came set on the lightest setting, which I prefer. I have not checked the trigger weight, but the literature claims down to 1.5 pounds.

From the cleaning requirements for your guns I will probably wait until I get 50 shots through it before cleaning it the first time.

One thing that I found VERY interesting is the home-made silencer we built this last weekend. Two 55 gallons steel drums, welded end to end, with an 8" support cage running through the center.......support cage wrapped in carpet and fiberglass insulation between the carpet and drum wall. The outer ends of the welded drums had a 6" hole cut in the center, with split rubber hose lining the hole to protect the gun barrel. This setup was basically a real big muffler. It reduced the report of a 300 mag to a LR22. I am planning to make one for my use at my home as well.

Waylan

Waylan


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

walexa07 said:


> One thing that I found VERY interesting is the home-made silencer we built this last weekend. Two 55 gallons steel drums, welded end to end, with an 8" support cage running through the center.......support cage wrapped in carpet and fiberglass insulation between the carpet and drum wall. The outer ends of the welded drums had a 6" hole cut in the center, with split rubber hose lining the hole to protect the gun barrel. This setup was basically a real big muffler. It reduced the report of a 300 mag to a LR22. I am planning to make one for my use at my home as well.
> 
> Waylan
> 
> Waylan


BOY!! That has to be pretty heavy having that on the tip of your barrel!! You must have extra, extra, extra, extra, extra, extra, extra high rings on your rifle.


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## walexa07 (Dec 7, 2006)

I know you are joking, but to clear it up to anyone else, the large silencer was stationary, supported by 4 posts with wire hanging between them so height adjustment would be easy. Our gun rest was on one end and we were aiming through the barrels at our target.

Waylan


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Ooooooooooohhhh, I undersplain now! 

I've actually seen those before. I have never shot through one but I have heard they work really well. :beer:


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## 25-06rem. (Jul 6, 2007)

walexa07 said:


> The savage 112 VLP I got last week in 25-06 is not grouping as well as I thought it should.
> 
> a friend of mine bought that same rifle, and he could not get it to group
> until he had about 100 rounds thru it. Then it started to group alote better. take your time on your 3 shot groups. I own 2 25-06s and the best
> ...


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## walexa07 (Dec 7, 2006)

I've got a box of the Hornady 117 btsp, but I don't see on their website where they make a 115 for the 25-06. My best group was with these hornadys. My second best is with the Federal Premium 117 btsp.

What kind of group is your friend shooting now?

Waylan


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

My Rem. 700 Mtn. Rifle in 25-06 shoots 1 MOA or a little greater on the average with Win. 120 gr. Power Points. It shoots about the same with Rem. 120 Core-Lokt PSP. For me this is good enough for this rifle. Not to say yours might not shoot better but in general I would look at reloading if you want better accuracy.

I'm going to try some 100 or 115 gr. TSXs throught it and see how those work. Berger also makes a 115 VLD that looks interesting.

As far as cleaning goes, for me I tend to over clean. Its a hard habit to break but I have come to understand that a little lead in the barrel isn't necessarily a bad thing. I would try not cleaning it as much as you do. You might be surprised! I'd give a barrel at least 200 to 300 rounds before I made any condemnations.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

You might do better, if you find your "magic" factory load, or start reloading. But don't turn up your nose at a 1 moa group! That kind of grouping will give you "minute of deer" accuracy, further out than most people should be shooting. I think you have a good one, and with some break-in, it might be even better. My experience is limited to only two rifles in 25/06, one a Ruger 77, the other a Remington 700. Both tended to copper foul after only a box of ammo, degrading accuracy. The only solution was to clean every fifteen or twenty rounds with copper solvent, or polish the bore with JB compound. Polishing the Ruger helped quite a bit, the Remington not very much. Good shooting, Burl


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## walexa07 (Dec 7, 2006)

Thanks for the responses so far.

I agree that 1MOA is plenty good enough for hunting, but this is a varminter series rifle, heavy barrel, fluted, free floated..........it is made to be more accurate than 1MOA IMHO. I think it will get there as I've only put about 30 rounds through it so far.

Waylan


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## 25-06rem. (Jul 6, 2007)

What kind of group is your friend shooting now?

my friend is get 4 shoot 1moa @ 100, his gun throw his fifth shot off.
:sniper:


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## Sin man (Jul 25, 2006)

i found my savage likes the lighter bullets and if its ur varmint gun thats what youll want to use anyways. try these

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... t=11082005

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... t=11082005


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Don't use that ballistic tip bullet if you're worried about saving fur.


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## walexa07 (Dec 7, 2006)

I made an 80 yard 3-shot group this past weekend with the 120g winchester positive expanding points.......all bullet holes were touching. Looks like it's getting better!

Waylan


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## flashhole (Jul 29, 2007)

When you bought your gun did you clean the barrel before you started shooting it? I mean really scrub it. New barrels have lots of gunk and crud in them from the rifling process. Shooting it will eventually purge it of the factory gunk but I'd still suggest a really good cleaning.


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## flashhole (Jul 29, 2007)

This is my 25-06, a Ruger #1V.










This is typical of the groups I get with my handloads. This was at 150 yards.










Nosler 100 grain Ballistic Tips
60.0 grains Retumbo
CCI 200 primers
Bullet seated about .005" off the lands.

Other bullets that work well for me are the Speer 87 grain TNT and Sierra 117 grain Spire Point Flat Base.


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## browncow (Jan 26, 2008)

hey just to let you know the 25-06 in heavy barrels tend to prefer the 100 grain bullet. you can push it fast and it will group much better than the heavier bullets. The 100 grains work great for hunting and when you hit a deer with them they DROP!!!! They usually dont punch through so all of the energy is left in the deer. The heavier bullets tend to not group as well and they do not, in my opinion cause as much "energy" damage to other organs that are not directly hit. Looks like soup on the inside.

Just my $0.02.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

browncow, my savage 110fp 25-06 really seems to like the Hornady 117SST's. I had 2 boxes of 120 Fusion that didn't shoot worth a darn, basically blew them away to get the brass after the first 10 shots. 115 TSX didn't work at all in them, but now have 100 of the 100gr TSX ready to go. Hopefully you are right about the 100grains.


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## traveler37 (Mar 27, 2008)

Try using Tubb Final Finish Bore Lapping Ammunition if you can find it in your caliber. I found that a proper (and very time consuming) new rifle break in seems to bring out the best in most precision rifles. There are many techniques, but the one that I use is one shot and thorough cleaning. Repeat ten times. Then Two shots, and thorough cleaning. Repeat five times. Then again, one shot and thorough cleaning. Repeat five times. Total twenty rounds. Then I clean every twenty to thirty rounds afterwards. I also try not to let the barrel get hot for first seventy five or hundred rounds. Basically I shoot groups of cold bore shots.

Hope this helps.


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## vtrons (Feb 14, 2008)

traveler37...thats exactly how I break my guns in and it works great.
Shoot...clean...repeat.
The extra time is worth it for a lifetime of tiny groups.


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## Bones (Jan 7, 2006)

Do as the recent posters have suggested. I have just finished two new rifles, and to get the most out of them, I feel you have to properly 'break' the new barrels in. The exception would be custom barrels that should already be lapped, and even then a short break-in is recommended. Go back and clean the barrel using a quality solvent, such as Bore Eliminator, Sweets, Butch's Bore Shine. I would only use a Jag and patch, and do this over several days, since you have been doing a lot of shooting. I would stay away from brushes. Once your barrel is free of all copper, break-in as described in travelers post. I've read very good things about the Tubb's process, but I haven't done that. Also before you start all of this make sure you are cleaning with a good bore guide. Ask most any gunsmith and they'll tell you more barrels are ruined by improper cleaning, especially crown damage. After this is done, you can start shooting your groups. It is a slow process, but it will remove all doubt and excuses, and I bet your groups will tighten up......


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