# Pointing Labs



## lynxx69 (Mar 21, 2004)

I am wondering if there are still a bunch of people out there that think pointing labs are a joke? I understand that the AKC and CKC (more organizations for the matter) dont recognize pointing labs as a different breed than a normal lab. This is because they are the same as eachother, some just have a Natural instinct to point as others dont. Anyways I have watched now for years people talk about how pointing labs are a joke (Less and Less as the years go on) and I am going to be the first one to disagree. A good breeder can produce some high drive staunch pointers. I have owned 2 now and I got the first one on accident when I was 14. I had no idea what a pointing lab was at 14 years old but the first pheasant she pointed made me extremly happy. She is 11 now and actually still hunts, I dont know the numbers but she has pointed well over 1000 birds in her career, I would say thats a true pointer.

I also have a 3 yr old Yellow Pointing Lab who has an extremly nice Point! These dogs are incredible to hunt behind and so universal when it comes to hunting in General.

Post up some pics if you have some of your labs pointing! I am putting a video of the father of the new pup I am getting and a pic of my dog pointing.

A closeup of Tanner Pointing









This is actually a double point with both my dogs!









Brittney on point (Not so stylish in her old age)









Results!









Baker video on several points(Video of Sire for my next pup)


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Nice dog well trained steady to flush and shot and I enjoyed watching the video.

That said when you have a dog whose range is only 20 yards or less whats the point of having it point?

I dont have a thing against it, just dont see the advantage either.

Dont take this as a criticism if you are happy with the dog thats all that counts.

Got a nice string of roosters hanging on the fence :beer:


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## 94NDTA (May 28, 2005)

Bobm said:


> Nice dog well trained steady to flush and shot and I enjoyed watching the video.
> 
> That said when you have a dog whose range is only 20 yards or less whats the point of having it point?
> 
> ...


Why wouldn't you want a dog go on point within 20 yards? Would you prefer your dog range out past the range of your gun to find a bird, or kick a bird up 50 yards out? Most of the places we hunt have been worked, or are near places the get worked. which means the birds do not always sit tight. I enjoyed the video too.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

My pointers cover a swath about 300 yards to the front and maybe out that distance to each side, and because they cover so much ground they find far more birds than a dog that stays within 20 yards ever will.

This isn't a criticism just a fact because of the large amount of ground they cover.

I dont have any problem whatsoever with pointing labs FWIW.

My pointers do sometimes have a bird flush before I get to them but its very rare.

Theres nothing wrong with a close working pheasant dog but if the dogs range is 20 yards and you can read the dog like any lab owner can, the bird will be flushed within gun range.

The whole "point" of having a dog point is so the dog can cover more ground to find game and then you will have time to close the gap and flush it yourself.


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## 94NDTA (May 28, 2005)

Bobm said:


> My pointers cover a swath about 300 yards to the front and maybe out that distance to each side, and because they cover so much ground they find far more birds than a dog that stays within 20 yards ever will.
> 
> This isn't a criticism just a fact because of the large amount of ground they cover.
> 
> ...


Thats so odd, we trained all of our setters to stay within 50 yards for the exact reason I posted earlier. We only hunt public land, and never are the first people on that land. All the birds we see are very spooky, and never had luck with them ranging out so far.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I only hunt public land also in ND and Kansas.

I usaully go late season in Kansas when the birds are educated but the crowds are gone and still do well, normally hunt ND early season before it gets too darn cold for my old southern bones. :beer:

Everyone is comfortable with a different range.

I would be very surprised to find many setter owners limiting their dogs to 50 yards though. But depending on what your hunting and where it may well be the most practical for your area.


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## verg (Aug 21, 2006)

Bobm said:


> My pointers cover a swath about 300 yards to the front and maybe out that distance to each side, and because they cover so much ground they find far more birds than a dog that stays within 20 yards ever will.
> 
> Not sure I agree with this above statement. I'm not sure you can say your dogs find more birds...you probably just have to walk less. You may be able to cover one small area in one swath where as guys with closer working dogs may have to go up and down and zig and zag. All in all, the same amount of cover will be covered and birds found. Don't ya think?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

verg said:


> Bobm said:
> 
> 
> > My pointers cover a swath about 300 yards to the front and maybe out that distance to each side, and because they cover so much ground they find far more birds than a dog that stays within 20 yards ever will.
> ...


Not in the same time period, the dogs cover unproductive stuff way faster than this old fat guy can walk..... or even a young fit guy can, not that it matters especially phez hunting like you guys probably do mostly.

Get out in the bigger wide open areas of the west with lots of super hilly terrain and then it will be a big factor.

Keep in mind I dont have any problem whatsoever with close working dogs. And I love labs of any flavor they are great dogs.

I just was surprised how VERY close that dog was working, close working to my frame of reference would be within maybe a 100 yards. If the dog is within 20 yards all the time what difference does it make if it points or flushes? Again I am not criticizing the dog it exhibited a good deal of training and looked like a very nice dog.

Some of my dogs will easily stretch out way way out there if they dont find birds close, that took some getting use to when I got into trial lines EPs especially.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

> I am wondering if there are still a bunch of people out there that think pointing labs are a joke?


I don't think there a joke but I do think it is doing an injustice to the breed. Labradoors are breed for there marking ability and retrieving game and second there a flusher, never a pointer if you want a pointer buy a pointer. All breeds will point, if someone (and I hope thwey don't) gets a wild hair up there arse we will have pointing goldens and chessies if were not careful. To each there own but I have worked 3 APLA events and i have yet to see a test at the master level that I would consider a true test for the breed at that level, for the marks and the blinds. almost ALL emphisis is put on the upland (pointing) part, and very little put on marking. Pretty sad, breeding for the "POINT" is just as bad as breeding for "COLOR"....


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

My wirehair will also hunts big (100 yards+) depending on how hot the scent is and how heavy the cover is. If we get into an area where she isn't getting birdy her range just keeps getting bigger and bigger. If she gets birdy she really shortens her range up. I would like to take credit for this but it is mostly instinct. When she does hunt big and goes on point she very rarely busts the bird even late in the year when the birds are spooky. I think she only busted 2 or 3 birds last year out of 300+ birds thats not to bad. I was told by a top notch field trail dog handler that a pointing dog should be able to hold a bird at point for a minimum of 5 minutes with no maximum.

I also had a pointing lab that was a great pointing dog. His max range was around 50 yards but usually around 25 yards. I think the major reason for the differnce in range is the speed of the dogs. Lab as a general rule aren't that fast. My wirehair covers more and has greater range just from pure speed alone.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

lynxx, you have nice pictures of your dog pointing. It's hard to set aside the gun for the camera when the dog is on point. By far and away most of others dogs I see out pheasant hunting are labs. Labs handle cattails so well and cattails and pheasants go together like peanut butter and jelly. 25 yds is a long ways to see a dog in cattails so I don't see long range as an issue.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

Dick Monson said:


> lynxx, you have nice pictures of your dog pointing. It's hard to set aside the gun for the camera when the dog is on point. By far and away most of others dogs I see out pheasant hunting are labs. Labs handle cattails so well and cattails and pheasants go together like peanut butter and jelly. 25 yds is a long ways to see a dog in cattails so I don't see long range as an issue.


Dick if I lived in your neck of the woods and didn't enjoy the retriever games Id'e have one of them shaggy bearded true pointing dogs like you do. (SOME DAY)


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

I don't know if I phrased it well and am sure no expert. But I always thought a pointing lab would excell on pheasants in cattails. For a couple reasons. They have the muscle to punch through the cover there and it can be a real tough effort. My GWPs do ok, but my labs did as well or better. Labs are good at marking birds down. Any dog can mark one fall in cattails but I have seen labs mark down multiples when there were a bunch of guns going off. It is uncanny how they do it. If you are tracking a bird on the ground labs are top notch. If you are big on getting a bird delivered back to you, it's going to be a lab. Or one of the other retreivers. And I know other breeds will retreive but the standard is set by retreivers.

One thing about a lab is that they are pretty much ready out of the box. A little obediance training and you are good to go. A GWP isn't quite that way. Some assembly is required. 

The reason I switched from a lab to a GWP was the point. Because when you get old you can't keep up to a flusher. You could hup the lab but then you are making noise, which is verboten, and doesn't stop the bird from running away in the cattails. So I wanted a dog to pin the bird until I could get there. When I switched breeds pointing labs were kind of new yet. The most popular breeders had really big dogs. Not what I wanted in the house on the couch.

But now days there are more breeders to pick a pointing lab from and I think that they would be a great choice for hunting pheasants in cattails. There is no hunt I enjoy more than following a dog on a deer trail in the cattails with a little fresh snow on the ice.
My old labs are gone now, R.I.P. and I sure miss those black devils.


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## lynxx69 (Mar 21, 2004)

Dick Monson said:


> The reason I switched from a lab to a GWP was the point. Because when you get old you can't keep up to a flusher.


This is why a Pointing lab is a great fit! I love the versatility of this dog, to each their own, I'm convinced I have the right dog that fits my hunting style. I have owned a German Wirehair also and loved the dog, but yes very soft in the field especialy in colder temps and sometimes has an attitude towards other dogs. But man can they cover alot of ground fast :beer:


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## gonedoggin (Mar 20, 2008)

The best comment I've heard about pointing labs is that "they're the spork of gundogs." :wink:


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## kwas (Feb 20, 2007)

Browndog most of your top breeders are loosing nothing on retriever games that breed for pointing instinct. Most are aka and ukc title in retriever games


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