# Candidates and guns



## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

With the upcoming, here's a link that should spur some debate. Do most gun-rights people and/or sportsmen in ND agree or disagree with the statements herein? Just wondering.

http://www.alternet.org/election04/19223/


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

There all the same...a bunch of self centered high and mighty bullsh*tters, we would be better off if they were all auctioneers. 8)


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

He needs a better coach. His posture is a little weak :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I could hardly stand to read it. I guess it was the way they started out. The media almost wet their pants because Kerry blew two pheasants out of the air. Hitler could perhaps shoot too, but we know by his quotes that he was very pro gun control. After all if Jews were allowed to have guns some nice Gestapo officer could get injured torturing and killing them. People who hate SUV's are capable of driving them, people who hate power plants still use electricity. It means nothing. We know where Kerry stands on the second amendment, with Hilary, Kennedy, Charles Schummer, Barbara Boxer etc. etc. This doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the truth. If anyone thinks Kerry will not attack gun ownership they are in a state of denial. People may say they believe it, but I don't believe that. I know there are sub intelligent people in the world, but no one is dumb enough to think Kerry is as good for gun owners as Bush. They may say so, but they do so simply to sway other voters because they want Kerry for other reasons. No one, absolutely no one can believe Kerry is pro gun ownership.


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## wingbuster (Apr 22, 2004)

Don't misunderstand me when I say, guns are not just our tools as sportsman but they play a strong roll in politics. As urban communities expand, less and less poeple can realy see a need for guns. I grew up with the understanding they feed our family and protect us from thugs and yes even our own government. Most dont give much thought to the real importance of owning a gun as I do. I consider it my duty to teach my children ( all seven ) to use them, and introduce others to the sport of hunting. More and more, our generations are trying to protect their hunting spots and guides leasing more land than they need, driving the cost of hunting up every day. We are loosing future voters every day because of our want to keep it to ourselves, I am guilty of doing the same thing. I did not realize till recently that without strengthening our numbers we will eventuly become the minority and be defeated at the polls, just like Great Britan and Austrailia. Politicians could not win against us if the majority of the people understood or had the want and need to own a firearm. Look at Iraqi, if they didnot have weapons could they be causing the trouble they are causing to us today ? NO NO NO... As to Kerry with his choice for vice president and his past or lacking of , I dont think he has what it takes to be a president, I hope I am not the only one. My real concern will be 2008. Hillaray will be our main concern, she is already being bread for the first women president.. Introduce someone to the sport, lets build our way of life into the hearts of others.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"I dont think he has what it takes to be a president"

really, because I dont think we could do much worse than we already have.


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## 870 XPRS (Mar 12, 2003)

Militant_Tiger said:


> I dont think we could do much worse than we already have.


I know MT, maybe we should let terrorism run this country.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

heck I thought we already did, I mean we rely on terrorist's oil so much we may as well just let them regulate everything


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## 870 XPRS (Mar 12, 2003)

Kerry seems like a mama's boy to me, one threat or tough situation and he'd be in the corner crying. I agree in the fact that I don't think he has what it takes to be president.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

Kerry's the mama's boy? Oh yeah, he's the one that actually WENT to Vietnam. Sure, Bush is real tough. And I'm sure he got that way by never having to work a day in his life. Me, I needed to survive, so I kinda had to, makes it hard for me to respect the "tough guys" that didn't. Maybe I'd be a bit more patriotic if I'd won the conceivement lottery and been born into money.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hell he's worse than a mamma's boy he's a high priced gigilo not much different than a prostitute. You got the money he's got the time!!! 8)


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

Another great comment, Buckseye, almost as eloquent as your great insight to the Jewish race from another topic. Considering that little racist diatribe I could really give a rat's a** about any of your opinions, I don't deal w/ bigotry. But I got a feeling that it won't bother you too much, I'm probably "evil" like the Jews, huh? Boy, I've got a Jewish friend from basic that would love to meet you in a dark alley. But that stuff never accomplishes anything, I'm gonna quit wasting my breath.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

You should look that passage up I wrote from the Bible.....you would see it says "Beware the Jew, all are not Jews, some are the devil" it doesn't say all Jews are evil....heck I never had such a thought, why do you? Why do you take what we say so personal???

If you work where I think you do... yes I do believe you are evil and hate to see people worship anything but your boss. And I personaly don't think you are doing him any great favors with your way of thinking and the actions you take. There is life after politics 8)


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

The old testament also offers insight such as how one should smite their neighbor if he onsists on working during the sabbath, so you'll forgive me I take it with a grain of salt, since I don't see too many Christians protesting in front of 7-11s on Sundays. Leviticus also offers wondrous insight on the different ways to sacrifice bulls according to the level of sin committed. The true message of the Bible is compassion and respect for one's fellow man, and that's all that should matter, not specific parts written at certain times which help fuel peoples' hypocrisy or predujice. I no more worship my boss than you worship any politician, but I do like to stand up for him when I think he's right and admit when I think he's wrong, but that's a little harder in a public forum. There is life after politics, but calling someone a gigilo because you don't care for their views, party, or both? The same can so easily be said about the current president, if you're gonna attack Kerry I'm the one guy that will defend until I'm hoarse you're right to do it, so make my lost breath worth it and USE SOME LOGIC, PLEASE!! Try something substantial for the love of God, and please, although I may have started it in this post, lets keep ethnic groups out of this, there is enough of that in some other topic which has a whole lot more logic behind it than some obscure quote. Now, you called Kerry a gigilo, yet Bush had Enron and other top-notch, high-intergrity corporations help to write his energy policy! The same ones that made all the profit off of it! Who's for sale? Try again.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Bush is also a gigilo..so is your boss...so are you...so what!!! One of the bad things about you politicians is you retreat and retract to much. Take a stand and ride it out sometime.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

How about I ride out my request that you bring something substantial to the table, other than your remark about people that buy Harley's as status symbols - I've taken a stand against that for years. Not every politician is all bad, or this country would be in a lot worse shape. We still have the freedom to air our thoughts and feelings out on this forum, so that's one good sign.


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## 870 XPRS (Mar 12, 2003)

uh oh, somebody got underneath somebody elses skin.  :-?


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I don't think it is politicians who fight in our wars, they may cause them but other than making agreements they do not win wars, soldiers do. I figured human nature was a little to deep of a subject for you. Hey there's still hope for you tho!! 8)


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

lol 870...I'm just takin my turn at him...lol


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## wingbuster (Apr 22, 2004)

Southwest Fisher said:


> Kerry's the mama's boy? Oh yeah, he's the one that actually WENT to Vietnam.


 Sure, Bush is real tough. Yes Kerry went to Vietnam, so did my dad, and all four of my uncles. Hell most all of my family served durring war, BUT NOT ONE OF THEM CAME HOME AND TALKED DOWN ABOUT THE MEN THEY SERVED WITH.... Kerry came home saw that most were against the war and called the men he served with WAR CRIMINALS. He is real good at talking about others, but changes his tune like the texas panhandle weather when confronted. Bush will at least follow thru, He said after 9-11 he would hunt down terrorist no matter where they are. He has and still is. I do not agree with every thing he does, but he is still our president. I thank our fore fathers who died to make that possible. The terrorist are no longer contained to their own countries, they came to ours and (killed) and want to continue if we do not draw the line, drop the politics and stop it, we will get hit again. At least most sportsman in this country respect their pray and have values, these holy terrorist don't even respect their lives or the religon they serve. So should we get Kerry in there to fix our government? Maybe he will talk them out of killing Americans, hire some singers and celeberties to talk nice about them. That should solve it , you think.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

Again, I don't know of anybody that I've considered "tough" whose never had to work a day in his life - ever! And considering that we took our sweet time getting into Afghanistan, and attacked a nothing nation who had a long-standing rivalry w/ al-Qaeda, color me unimpressed with Bush's work against terror. But I guess we'll all find out come November.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

SWF,

I could post the differences that get emailed around a lot but I am sure that you have seen them already. What really piss's people off like yourself, Moore, Clinton (Both of them), Gore, Any Kennedy, and I believe your affiliate, is that instead of just talking and threatening like the last President did for 8 years, Bush walked in and smacked the crap out of people and countries that needed it! Do you not remember all the US lives lost BEFORE 9-11 the slick Willie threatened to smack down? Never once did he do anything in retaliation of the US lives lost. Have you forgotten the bombed ships, embassies, and barracks?

People always want actions but when someone finally does it they use it against him!

Bull-pucky!

ALL politicians and those with them really make me sick 98% of the time. The other 2% I am fishing and nothing gets to me when I am fishing!


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Screw it. I'am done with this post.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

I don't understand why you get so ****** that I see Bush's actions differently from you. Maybe I would see it differently if he had personally gone in to smack the crap out of people when he had the chance, rather than send in others to do it now and not even honor one of them by going to a soldier's funeral. Not one. The fact that many retired generals, diplomats, and foreign relations specialists were against this war also says something to me. Go****it it's not un-patriotic to disagree, it's not "helping the terrorists," it's wanting the best for your country, and the best for your fellow soldiers, and if we tend to see it differently fine, but I don't tell you that you're wrong, please extend the same courtesy to me!


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## catman (Dec 19, 2002)

Ya Kerry served, alot of us did, and alot of us did not come home alive! But the majority of us did not come home and hook up withm hanoi jane and start calling us baby killers,and war criminals. When I came home one of my worst experince was flying home and being told not to wear my uniform becuase people would spit on me! Ya Kerry served but he had no right to bash those that served! :******:

As far as my Harley goes. I own one becuase they are a american owened company built by americans!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Catman :beer: Kerry is phony . Did you know he served in Vietnam? I heard that somewhere......Fonda was probably water sking behind his boat. Isn't it funny how little Kerry has to talk about, serving in Vietnam is his only claim ( and his own men say hes not fit for office and sued him to get him to quit using a picture of them in his campaign). His purple hearts were phony scratches so he could get back stateside and claim that all the rest of us were war criminals.
What a ********. 
The Democrats are scraping the bottom of the barrel, Hilary has bigger balls than Kerry and his ambulance chaser VP.
And the dunces that think harleys are a status symbol have never had the thrill of twisting the throttle on one. I love all motorcyles but my Harley has always been my favorite.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

wow bob you mean he only went to nam and got a little scracth? well thats better than bush WHO DIDNT SERVE AT ALL! pull your head out of your hiney bob and smell the roses, you cant ignore the facts forever!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Sw Fisher said


> it's not "helping the terrorists," it's wanting the best for your country, and the best for your fellow soldiers


Yes it is helping the terrorists and its not whats best for the country or the soldiers. The terrorists are taking comfort in the dissenting debate just like the North Vietnamese did. Thanks to the likes of Kerry and Jane Fonda
SWFisher I know you don't want to hurt soldiers but your position on the war does. It should be debated after we've won, and we will and are winning.
MT everyone the joins the military (which Bush did) has served and once your in, you go where they tell you, and do what they tell you to do, ask Fisher or Rude the military isn't anything like your life to this point you should try it, it will help you understand the world and make you into a better person . Bush got in the guard (I think to avoid Vietnam) but he never said anything to harm the soldiers or undermine their efforts Kerry did. And its Kerrys actions after he got back that angers most of the vets of my generation because we lived it and realize what Fonda and Kerry did killed a lot of our brothers. I doubt your history books in your highschool ever told you the truth about it which explains the sheer ignorance of your statements. If you understood the politics of this country during the Vietnam war you would understand why his father got him in the guard, his father probably recognized that our politicians were more concerned with their politcal future than winning and why give up your son to something like that. I was too dumb to realize it and joined the army thinking I would make a difference. The war in Irac is different primarily because the leadership in Washington has the stones to carry it out and let the miltiary make the decisions the need to make to win :sniper: without all the political baggage. Which gets back to my original point about how dissent at this point will create political baggage and is wrong! We are there to win and its very important to the future of the US that we do win for a lot of reasons other than the Iraqis' welfare. One more thing is "hiney" a new word you learned I've seen it in a lot of your posts lately....impressive :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The original post was candidates and guns. I think liberals would like to change the subject because they can not defend their position with sportsmen. Someone on a post somewhere said the democrats don't want our guns it is people like Rush trying to scare us. Well I have listened to Rush, and I have never heard him talk about guns. It is one subject he never brings up. They don't mean anything to him I guess. Evidently the statement was false.

Who always brings up gun control democrats or republicans? Doesn't take much to come up with the correct answer here does it. Does the statement below remind you of any political rhetoric that gets bounced around? It isn't the republicans that convince me to be frightened of the democrat stand on gun control it is the democrats. I think this is a point that no one who listens to any news on any station can refute.

*This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!" 
-Adolf Hitler, 1935*

I'm sure Hitler would have called himself a progressive.


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## wingbuster (Apr 22, 2004)

Very Very good point, Great Britain learned Hitler was ready to launch a full scale attack against them across the english channel. But Great Britain had already taken away non military weapons and the military was not in the position to stop Hitler. Guess what , they advertised in the UNINTED STATES ; Help a Brit save his homeland send guns and ammo and binoculars. WE DID and a lot of civilians here in the US sent guns to help knowing they may never get them back! And they did not, With our guns the civilian population cut off Hitlers paratroopers from the rest of their forces and he had to retreat. Shortly after Great Britain saw fit to confiscate those weapons and melted them down to help keep violence down. HA HA HA what man has learned from history is that MAN DOES NOT LEARN FROM HISTORY. And still to this day they suffer from it, Home invasion is the most popular crime in their country today. I read an artical on " Guns in Great Britian" they still have their shotguns but it is ileagal to use a firearm against a human. One farmer after multiple break- ins to his home while they were home decided enough was enough and shot two of three criminals with his shotgun. He killed one and wounded the second, the courts gave him life in prision. The criminals involved had already among the three had over 130 convictions of home invations combined. The wounded criminal got $3000.00 dollars in government money to sue the farmer due to the loss of his leg, he was no longer able to continue working and won. After a lot of press on the case, the farmers sentence was reduced to 10 years. What a deal ! Guns do not kill people-people kill people, And most do not look back at history when then same country we helped after they tried to take ours in 1775 when British parlement ordered the govenor of Massachusetts to seize the colonist' weapons and again our guns made history. Farmers , hunters , and colonist stopped a superior force from controling our new country. People have been dieing in wars and battles since the begeinig of time and for a purpose, WHAT THEY BELIVE IN. When this country was founded it was founded WE THE PEOPLE ONE NATION UNDER GOD. We the people is now seperated from government, and most dont speak of god for fear someone will take it wrong. And guns kill children. ALL politicians are to blame and also the people, The majority of the people do not get involved asking what difference can I make. WE DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE BUT WE MUST STAND TOGETHER , Most want a good life for our familys, and some common ground. YOU can tell when a politician is lieing - his lips are moving. Whatch their actions and never trust their words.[/quote]


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

There's a lot of macho, tough guy talk here making light of Kerry's military record. He got three Purple Hearts. Do you make fun of other soldiers because of the way they got their Purple Hearts?? No, just this one who happens to be running for President.

How many of you have Purple Hearts???

He shot a VC in order to protect his own men. Doesn't sound like a wimp to me.

How many of you guys have shot and killed a man with a gun??

Kerry has walked the walk. Let's not forget that.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Kerry got an "A" rating from Handgun Control, PETA and the Humane Society, I know who NOT to vote for!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I quote shotgun news, volume 58, issue 20, 2004, page 30

"Militias armed by ... Sudan's Arab rulers ... in the capital, Khartoum, have battled the rebels and pillaged civilians of the Zaghawa, Fur and Massalit tribes. The civil war has forced more than 1 million from their homes. ... The European Union said it was 'essential that the Sudanese government fulfill its commitment to control the irregular armed forces,' "
the Times continued. "These well-meaning demands have proved pathetically ineffective in stopping Sudan's government-backed ethnic cleansing."
"In response, President Bush last month said Sudan 'must immediately stop local militias from commiting atrocities against the local population.' "
Notice anything strange, there? Civilians of the Zaghawa, Fur and Massalit tribes are being killed by men who are "armed and backed" by the government in Khartoum. Those aren't civilian "militias." They're the "armed bodies of men" put in the field by the government, against which the founders warned us any free people would always need a proper militia - every member of the populace to come running with his military weapon - to defend them. "

So that's bush's policy overseas, I wonder how long it will take to make it here. Hopefully not two terms. But we must remember that this was said by the media, which as Bob has shown us is in the liberal's pockets, and shotgun news is one of the worst offenders.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT

I guess I have stayed up to late for an old goat like me. I couldn't understand much in that last post. I guess that shotgun news author needs a better editor. "demands have provoked pathetically ineffective"????? maybe they intended to say proved pathetically ineffective. I'll read it again in the morning.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

No most likely a typo by me, I had to copy it by hand, its quite hard to keep your eyes on two things at once. I'll edit it.


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## wingbuster (Apr 22, 2004)

AS to Perrys comment , I do not have a purple heart nor have I had military service. But as a presidential runner you are a servent of the public and as such ALL your actions and opinions should be considered. and he supposibly recived three, and only serverd 5 months. You are talking about a person who will repersent the people of this country. He has been reluctant to release his records, his taxes by the way, his wifes deceased husband left her hundreds of millons. And she doesnt want the public to know where it goes. I wonder why, It seems you must force kerry to give you answers. If he becomes president you wont have that ability. And as to killing another human with a gun, hell we have hundreds of fools doing that on a daily basis here at home and more in other countrys. I have shot a man, and that moment in time visits me every day and to be proud of it will never be apart of my life... I Do not think of the harvest of wildlife as killing or the protection of my family as killing. You could not imagine taking any life without reason and even then you still must justify that action to yourself every day. And to this day I have found no peace in that action. My deepest hearts prayers go out to our military that must engage in their actions. Justified or not you still must live with reality of your actions. I thank god every day for his forgiveness in our actions, otherwise I would have been lost for many years. I have a family now and must think of their future not my past. 
And as for kerry his immediate commander characterized him as self absorbant, devious and needing constant supervision. On the day he resceived his 3rd heart , his commander reported he showed him a small scratch on his arm. His crew reported they had no contact all day and kerry fired a m-79 into the shore. His commander told him to get back to his duties and within days he was state side. I wont dispute the facts both bush and kerry both have unanswered past , but kerry wants to hide his . WHY ? Bush flew jets, not the safest job. I wish we had more choices, but we must elect one or the other. Kerry wanted to base his campain on his military record, but would not produce his certifcates why ? Politicians all are in office to help themselfs or their family, not the public. But get involved and voice your opinion, YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERANCE- VOTE. Lets find common ground and make a difference.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

My brother mini-brute had schrapnel 3 different times over an 18 month tour...he got fixed up and went back out and did his job as an Airborne Assassin all 3 times, he did not ask for early outs or medals he was just doing what he said he would...after all they do all take an oath.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

The Green Beret whose life Kerry saved after he was wounded will be walking him to the podium next Thursday night. Why don't we all ask this gentleman, this Special Forces soldier, if he thinks Kerry earned it.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

First let's get back on the topic. Kerry has demonstrated his wiliness to embrace the removal of gun owner rights most of the time he has had a chance to vote. His first vote of the year was in favor of the Fienstien Adm that would have allowed the US AG to determine what guns to ban and to outlaw any guns ever used by a military. For you Bennili's,Berreta,Remington,Winchester's, Ithaca, Colt and Browning owners that includes many of our daily use shotguns. Be it pump or semi auto. Then the pistol grip style of our shotguns also would have been illegal.

Kerry has not put forth a single program I can support. He has talked about many issues and has been on different sides of many of them. So he tells you what he thinks the current crowd wants to hear just like in WI and MN over the 4th. Then goes to the NAACP convention and tells them something different.

Think long and hard over the choice of Pres. be honest with your self and say am I really voting for a better choice or just a different choice. If it is different only then vote your guns and taxes. If it is better then list those programs for the rest of us to see along with the price tags that go with them.

One needs to look hard at our current elected officals in Washington and see how they are voting for our gun rights. I am not impressed, but listening to there spin you would think they are out to protect our rights while voting otherwise.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Hear are a few of the many votes against gun owners he has supported. I especially like the Lautenberg Bill this also came to me in an e-mail and I did verify the votes!

* Lock up your safety. On February 26 of this year, Sen. Kerry voted for an amendment that would require all handgun purchasers to pay an implicit "gun tax" by requiring them to buy a trigger lock when they purchase their handgun, irrespective of need. In addition, the amendment would create a broad and implicit cause of action against gun owners who fail to actually use the storage device to lock up their firearms. Of course, a locked gun then becomes unavailable for self-defense.

* Feinstein semi-auto ban. On March 2, Kerry voted for a Dianne Feinstein amendment that would extend the ban that was signed into law by President Clinton in 1994 -- a ban which outlaws certain magazines and more than 180 types of semi-automatic firearms.

* Gun show ban. Kerry also voted on March 2 for language that would outlaw the private sale of firearms at gun shows, unless the buyer agrees to submit to a background registration check. Even worse, the amendment could effectively eliminate gun shows because every member of an organization sponsoring a gun show could be imprisoned if the organization fails to notify each and every "person who attends the special firearms event of the [Brady Law] requirements." Thus, if the person responsible for handing out "Brady pamphlets" took a break to go to the bathroom, everyone responsible for the event could be sent to prison.

* Hunting ammo ban. Senator Kerry's disdain for hunters was seen in March of this year when he voted for a Ted Kennedy amendment that would extend the federal ban on many types of ammunition. In the name of prohibiting so-called "cop-killer bullets," the Kennedy ban would have included superior performance ammunition in popular hunting calibers such as the .30-06.

These are just some of the votes from this year. A trip down "memory lane" for the past ten years reveals more infringements of people's liberties:

* Free speech restrictions. In April 2001, Kerry voted to severely curtail the ability of outside groups such as GOA to communicate the actions of incumbent politicians to members and supporters prior to an election. This Incumbent Protection legislation makes it even harder for Gun Owners to point out the unconstitutional votes that are cast by anti-gun legislators such as Kerry.

* Lautenberg gun ban. One of the most far-reaching gun bans that Kerry voted for was in September 1996 -- the so-called Lautenberg Gun Ban. This ban has disarmed people for life -- for offenses that include pushing, shoving or, in some cases, even yelling at a family member. The language of this lifetime gun ban is so expansive that unsuspecting parents have been disarmed for simply using legitimate corporal punishment.

* Gun Free School Zones Ban. Eighty-five percent of Americans support the right of a school principal or teacher to defend students' lives with a firearm. Despite this overwhelming support for preventing school massacres, Sen. Kerry voted in 1996 to ban firearms within 1,000 feet of a school. This ban has done nothing to keep criminals from carrying guns onto school grounds, and instead, could very well make criminals out of heroes like Assistant Principal Joel Myrick of Mississippi, who used his firearm in 1997 to stop a student-killer.

* Brady gun control. Senator Kerry voted for the original Brady Bill in November 1993. This bill endangered gun buyers' safety -- forcing them to wait five days before being able to purchase a handgun from a gun store -- and endangered their privacy by requiring their names to be sent to the FBI.

* Clinton-Feinstein semi-auto ban. Not surprisingly, Senator Kerry also voted for the ban on certain magazines and on scores of firearms in 1993 and 1994. This was the first time the federal government had outright banned the mere possession of certain types of firearms


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Kerrys a phony and an admitted war criminal (although I really don't believe he did that either I think it just fit his antiwar ajenda at the time to claim he did) He has one greatful guy he saved and he may well have acted honorably on that instance and for that he needed to be commended. But badmouthing the rest of us in the service and claiming the US army is committing war crimes because it fit his ajenda with the likes of Jane Fonda when he got back here after drumming up some pretty weak "paper cut purple hearts" says a lot about his true character. He is a political animal and will say anything to get elected. If he would of shut up about it I wouldn't criticize him but hes full of BS and most of the men who served with him have publicly stated that fact including his commanding officer. Saving the one soldier was great but he erased the honor of that fine act with his other behavior when he got back stateside. I was serving during this period of time and remember well how the left twisted what we were doing. What I never could believe is how the idiots in our country could believe we were killing babies and old women ect. It was just as phony as claiming all soldiers did the recent crap in the Iraq prison. There is a small percentage of bad people in every group you can think of but I know that the people that served with me would no more of done the **** the Kerry claimed than we would of shot ourselves, it was total political bull**** and it shamed him forever in my eyes.


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## nilsmaster (Sep 26, 2003)

I skimmed through the posts and my thought on gun control and canidates is this. Democrats do not want anyone to have any personal accountability because they need to push their program adjendas to keep themselves in office. Whereas, the republicans would rather have a more laxative government and you must fend for yourself a.k.a. personal accountability. In the end it's clear with gun control and the parties that do or don't support it. Democrats tend to say gun control is necessary. Republicans tend to say that people kill, guns don't. Remember, the best law is no law but that'll never be if people don't have some personal accountability and independance.


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## Ryan_Todd (Apr 11, 2004)

great post nils. can't agree with you more


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

and thats a fact..Jack 8)


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