# and here comes the warm weather



## Sd snow goose killer (Jan 20, 2007)

how long do you think they will hit the basins in nebraska


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## jim6897 (Aug 27, 2003)

I think we are 10 days away from good numbers. They are pumping several of the marshes right now so there should be water to help hold them in the basins a little longer.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Jim, what do you mean they are pumping some of the marshes right now? Just curious


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## jkern (Aug 10, 2005)

USSapper said:


> Jim, what do you mean they are pumping some of the marshes right now? Just curious


Pumping water to bring the water levels up and help thaw them out so the birds dont concentrate on the only open water around...bringing up the risk of a bad cholera outbreak.


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## northerngoosehunter (Mar 22, 2006)

I dont believe they do any "pumping of the water" in SD or ND. Thats intresting.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Wow, guys i cant say i have ever heard of this!! Where do they pump the water from?


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## Goose Guy350 (Nov 29, 2004)

probably aquafiers


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## jkern (Aug 10, 2005)

The ground. :lol:


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## jim6897 (Aug 27, 2003)

I was referring to the rainwater basins in Nebraska. There is a fund if you would like to donate to it to insure good migration water habitat so they reach the breeding grounds healthy. www.rwbpump.org. When water is scarce cholera can be a big problem. The goal of pumping is to spread the birds out and reduce the stress of too many birds on too little water. The amount of water pumped is about the yearly use for a 1/2 section of irrigated corn.


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

isnt the point of the conservation season to reduce the health of migrating birds by putting more pressure, and obviously killing a few, so they have less successful breeding seasons?? this would defeat the purpose for snow geese, i can see how it would benefit other waterfowl, but why try to help a species maintain a healthy migration but overall want less birds???


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## jim6897 (Aug 27, 2003)

The only problem with that theory is that 70% of the midcontinent waterfowl population migrates through the basins. If you want to see specks and pintails head to the basins in the spring. Last I heard they are not overpopulated.


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

so basically they do it for other species, snows just get the benefits also.


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## jkern (Aug 10, 2005)

Triple B said:


> so basically they do it for other species, snows just get the benefits also.


Yes

That is also why the Feds close off public marshes in the basins and only allow 4 day a week hunting. They also focus most of thier spring pumping efforts on the areas they close.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Trip, if they would let the birds congregate like this it wouldnt only have a negative effect on snows, it would cause other species to get diseases spread by the infected snows. Even though this conservation season is to try and get the pop to a stable level, they want to do it humanely(as possible) You get my point?


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

I understand the biology about this guys,thanks for your input. what i didn't understand is if they were doing it specifically for the snows or not, maybe an epidemic in the snow population is what that species needs, its really only a matter of time before a devastation occurs, with the breeding grounds already in rough shape, they are a ticking time bomb.


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## fungalsnowgoose (Sep 11, 2004)

The reason you don't really see the pumping in South and North dakota is two fold .

First is after the birds concentrate in the basin they start fanning out in thier migration lessening the total waterfowl population in an area at any given time reducing the risk of avian cholera.

Second there is a lot more water available throughout the Dakotas which also distributes the population further reducing the risks of an outbreak


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

I wouldnt say the pop needs an epidemic outbreak-this just wouldnt be healthy for waterfowl as a whole.


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## goosegrinder (Mar 4, 2005)

Epidemic in snow population=no more spring season. ARE YOU CRAZY?? :lol: :lol:

Alex


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

goosegrinder said:


> Epidemic in snow population=no more spring season. ARE YOU CRAZY?? :lol: :lol:
> 
> Alex


Crazy? yes, smart? no, I would be devastated if there wasn't a spring season, but given the circumstances we have now, the likelyhood of something like that happening is real win regards to snow geese. just thinkin ahead a little, yeah i know i'm way outside the box.


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## goosegrinder (Mar 4, 2005)

Triple B,
:lol: :lol: . For me,I'd rather have the spring season than the fall. These white birds just mess with a guy's mind. dd: :idiot: 8)

Alex


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## Ty (Mar 11, 2004)

You guys who really dont know what the basins are down here in Nebraska need to look into it. Its an awesome sight. We get some of the highest concentrations of snows in the midwest down there. Basically all waterfowl funnels thru there.


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## fungalsnowgoose (Sep 11, 2004)

I agree it's a sight that every waterfowl hunter in the world needs to see at least once in there life.

The problem with an outbreak of avian cholera is that it could decimate much more fragile waterfowl populations instead of just snow geese Pintials for instance.


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## nebgoosehunter (Aug 18, 2005)

I agree. Get in a basin and you got pintails, and basically any kind of duck for that matter, and specks flying within yards. Of course that happens when its outta season. :lol:


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

> Basically all waterfowl funnels thru there.


Basically just like ND then? 8)


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## jim6897 (Aug 27, 2003)

The basins area in Nebraska is only about 80 miles wide and creates a migration funnel. From here the birds start to disperse east and west. Obviously ND is a big migration area but it is not nearly as concentrated as the basins are in the spring.


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

jim6897 said:


> The basins area in Nebraska is only about 80 miles wide and creates a migration funnel. From here the birds start to disperse east and west. Obviously ND is a big migration area but it is not nearly as concentrated as the basins are in the spring.


I'm not too sure about that, southern ND is a great funneling area, maybe a span of 100 or so miles, anybody been to tewaukon on a good day? two years ago I witnessed 1.5 million snows( according to the USFWS estimate) sitting on that refuge, now if thats not a concentration I'm not sure what is.


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## orrghead16 (Dec 29, 2005)

The basins have had peaks of up to 6 million snows (USFWS estimate) and 10-12 million total birds at one given time. I actually just read a study about it. I could whip out the ref. if you guys would like to see it.

You guys are off on the thought that an avian epizootic is a


> real win regards to snow geese


. The whole purpose of the spring season was to kill a controlled number of snow geese so that they don't have a population crash. A population crash would not be good for snows or any geese. Huge loss of genetic diversity, could wipe out isolated colonies of snows, etc. Point of the spring season is a controlled reduction, not a massive kill off.

Good Hunting,
PATRICK OLSON


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

orrghead16 said:


> The basins have had peaks of up to 6 million snows (USFWS estimate)


Thats a pretty tough one considering the midcontinental population of snows is only estimated around 3-3.5 million


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

> You guys are off on the thought that an avian epizootic is a


Whos way off, everyone except trip agreed with that earlier but trip is on board now


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## fungalsnowgoose (Sep 11, 2004)

USFW counts are thought to be way off because they are done in the winter when they are scattered all over heck. Some biologists estimates have the population as high as 11 million while it's probably not that high 5 or 6 million is quite possible look at the counts in the basin, Squaw creek, and South Dakota during the first week of march or so and see what they add up to to you.

Trust me the basins are way different than North Dakota the way they funnel in and out again works in sort of an hour glass shape and by the time they hit NoDak they are way fanned out compared to there. It really is something to see. I've hunted from Saskatchewan to kansas and have never seen birds in one spot like that before.


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## orrghead16 (Dec 29, 2005)

USS- I was wrong in assuming that "you guys" were way off... Just wanted to point that out that it was not the point that the USFWS wanted a massive snow goose kill. Instead the USFWS wants management. You & others were spot on, I just failed to see that & thought it was logical to illustrate a specific counterpoint to some things that had been said. Now, just a few were "way off." Again, that is my error.

Trip- I take that as you would like to see the ref. Here are a few references to cite above estimates:

Gersib, R. A., Dinan, K. F., Kauffeld, J. D., Onnen, M. D. Gabig, P. J., Cornely, J. E., Jasmer, G. E., Hyland, J. M., & Strom, K. J. (1992) Rainwater Basin Joint Venture Implementation Plan. Lincoln: Nebraska Game and Parks Commission ---quotes info specifically, cites multiple studies for population growth and increasing frequency of snows in RWB---

LaGrange, T. (1997). Guide to nebraska's wetlands and their conservation needs. Lincoln, NE : Nebraska Game and Parks Commission,. --since updated, again cites same pop. estimates.--

Gersib, R. A., Elder, B., Dinan, K. F., & Hupf, T. K. (1989). Waterfowl values by wetland type within rainwater basin wetlands : With special emphasis on activity time budget and census data. Lincoln : Nebraska Game and Parks Commission : U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service,. --CITES DATA FROM 1989; PEAK @ over .5 MILLION SNOWS-- ref. to population estimates have since increased over last 17 years as cited.

Steiert, J. (1995). Playas : Jewels of the plains. Lubbock, Tex., USA : Texas Tech University Press,. ---readily available in library or even online. Cites multiple studies of various population estimates of waterfowl in RWBs---

Poor, J. P. (1997). The value of additional central flyway wetlands in nebraska's rainwater basin : Three essays . Journal of Agricultural and Resource Economics 24: 253-265 ---Thesis @ UNL, probably not readily available unless you have an "in". Nonetheless, shows population estimates in RWB in the spring 4 million, slightly less than above, but still valid---

Look up the ref. & get back to me. I am sure there are many more, that is just going off the top of my ref.ed papers. Look up studies by Gersib et al. and you will find ample info about the RWB. Done a lot of research and know quite abit about the facts. Where is your data/ref. that Nodak holds more concentrated populations of waterfowl than the RWBs? I would also like to see ref. to the 3.5 million snow pop. estimate. IMO, estimates are a pile until reasonably backed up by studies, etc.

Thanks for the back up fungal & others.

Good Hunting,
PATRICK OLSON


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

orrg, never said ND holds more birds, just wanted to point out that southern ND is a major funneling area also, i've got plenty of readingto do thet way it is, but maybe I'll get around to it, i've only read a few published papers on snow geese and I've never found one that has an estimate over 4 million, like i said if i get time i'll check your references out, are these peer reviewed papers?


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## orrghead16 (Dec 29, 2005)

The studies by Gersib et al. are all peer reviewed. I am pretty sure Poor was peer reviewed for publication in 2001 and published. Just had the thesis ref. handy.

Good Hunting,
PATRICK OLSON


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

I commend your "Nodak pride" Trip, and ND is a large funneling area, but you can compare the basins in the spring to Saskatchewan in the fall for snows. That is where they will stage, period. The amount of time there might vary year to year, but there will be birds there. I think we all know how "iffy" our ND migration is. The big push can vary from a few days to two months, we are so weather dependent.


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

decoyer and orrg, points well taken, I've never been to the basins, hell i've barely left ND, so i guess i can't really get a grasp on what it is really like, your point on layover time is taken well into consideration too decoyer, thanks for the insight guys, now if we can find an agreeable population size :lol: , i'll get back to ya orrg, got some reading to do, :beer:


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## kaiserduckhelm (May 26, 2005)

Those guys are full of it. No snow geese go to the basins, and if they do they are 18 year old adults that don't decoy. ND is way better, everyone just go there. :wink:


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

kaiserduckhelm said:


> Those guys are full of it. No snow geese go to the basins, and if they do they are 18 year old adults that don't decoy. ND is way better, everyone just go there. :wink:


no, those guys were right, birds rarely stop in ND, I'd bet the basins is where its at! :lol: :beer:


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## Ty (Mar 11, 2004)

kaiserduckhelm said:


> Those guys are full of it. No snow geese go to the basins, and if they do they are 18 year old adults that don't decoy. ND is way better, everyone just go there. :wink:


Yea no kidding.

Last year we only seen a few small bunches.

No birds here. Stay in Nodak. :wink:

:beer:


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## Ty (Mar 11, 2004)

Oh yea,

Its 39 here today in northeast Nebraska!

Supposed to be "hot" for 9 days straight now. This could get messy faster than everyone thinks. :sniper:


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## jkern (Aug 10, 2005)

NR lisenses cost to much in Nebraska. Go to Sd or Mo, same geese, but cheaper to hunt em. :lol:


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## orrghead16 (Dec 29, 2005)

jkern said:


> NR lisenses cost to much in Nebraska. Go to Sd or Mo, same geese, but cheaper to hunt em. :lol:


I have cites for that too. :wink: :lol:

Good Hunting,
PATRICK OLSON


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## nebgoosehunter (Aug 18, 2005)

This is funny stuff. Almost seemed like a competition before things got cleared up.


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

Ha.... yeah after rereading this thread I think we all need to just get out and light em up. Appearantly I'm not the only one who is getting sick of winter..


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## PJ (Oct 1, 2002)

NE is great for snows. But it is harder to freelance down there than Nodak. Remember, that is why Nodak is the jewel of the waterfowl migration, it has the best access for freelance waterfowlers. Sure there is public stuff in NE but most of the private is locked up.


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## goosegrinder (Mar 4, 2005)

Most of the private is locked up. BWHAHAHAHA Oh Really. Haven't had one farmer turn us down yet for spring snows. However,I like your line of thinking and hopefully alot of others think the same way. :beer:

Alex


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## kaiserduckhelm (May 26, 2005)

The guides have everything leased up in the basins that is worth darn. You can always get permission on a cornfield, no shortage of those around here.


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## northerngoosehunter (Mar 22, 2006)

looks like a big warm up in the 15 day forcast starting at about day 12

check it out at

www.accuweather.com


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## jkern (Aug 10, 2005)

Was working outside on the blinds today in a T shirt. Man that felt good.


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## goosegrinder (Mar 4, 2005)

Josh,
Were you down at the setup or building them to haul down there? If you were down there,see any birds and how's the snowcover?

Alex


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## jkern (Aug 10, 2005)

Built the sections at home.

Was gonna head down in the morning to set them up. Gonna wait until I hear back from Thunder about the field conditions. Might wait til Thursday if the field is too crappy to drive in.


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## kaiserduckhelm (May 26, 2005)

Snow is all but gone around the York area. Very little sheet water, it will be gone when the south winds start blowing. Fields will be sloppy for atleast a few week with the frostseal coming up, glad I didn't take out a second morgage on fullbodies. :lol:


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## PJ (Oct 1, 2002)

goosegrinder said:


> Most of the private is locked up. BWHAHAHAHA Oh Really. Haven't had one farmer turn us down yet for spring snows. However,I like your line of thinking and hopefully alot of others think the same way. :beer:
> 
> Alex


I'm just saying you can't go blast on the first unposted field you see. You have to do your homework before heading out.


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