# .223 vs .22-250



## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

I am looking at getting a new barrel for my Encore and wondering which way to go, I will use it for just average shooting, possibly prairie dogs or coyotes, no deer. Also is a heavy or fluted barrel worth it?


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

for an average "truck gun" i would stick with a lighter gun. especially for calling coyotes. But if you were going to go out and shoot prairie poodles every weekend in large volume, I'd say go with a heavy fluted barrel. The thinner barrel you'll see some barrel warping when it heats up on a pd town, just give it a bit more time to cool down.

The round is kind of up to you, they're pretty similar, do you handload? This would be the biggest thing. If you do handload either one would work, the 250 will have a bit more punch, but you can also pull some of the potential out of the 223 also. If you don't handload i'd start looking at how much ammo cost. The 223 will be easier to find bulk ammo and cheaper in the long run. It depends on what you're doing with it the most. If it's pd go cheap with a heavy barrel, if it's coyotes go with light and a 22-250. If it's a mix of both flip a coin and go with a light gun.

xdeano


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

I do hand load, so I will probably opt for the .22-250, Will a heavy barrel gun be any more accurate then a regulare barrel? Or is all you gain is it can handle more shots?


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Hick, all of my Encore barrels are the heavys, most 26" and a few "customs" are a little less. Weight is not an issue with these barrels, so get what you like. I like the stainless fluted, but they are a little more spendy. IMO the .223 is not worth the amount of money saved in ammo cost, get the 250!!!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Hick-From-Hell said:


> Will a heavy barrel gun be any more accurate then a regulare barrel?


Probably not enough to overshadow the "human error" aspect of shooting.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Ballistically, the 250 can do anything the 223 can, and then some. Practically, there's not much difference.

I don't own an Encore as I don't see the need for them, so I can't comment on their barrels. I generally shy away from HBs in walk around varminters, though. Given the small case capacity, you'll get all the performance you can squeeze out of either caliber in a 24" barrel, and won't give all that much up (less with the 223) if you choose a 22"...


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

I have read alot about the .22-250 and they say that they shoot so hot that they will destroy the barrels, Is that true?


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

It all has to do with case capacity and bullet diameter. If you were to compare the 223 and 22-250 then sure the 250 will burn the barrel faster, but it's all relative. Now compare the 22-250 to a 220 swift, the swift will burn more powder through a smaller hole, causing barrel erosion. You can put a lot of rounds down a 22-250 before you burn it out. it's a great round for prairie dogs and it'll anchor a coyote pretty hard too.

xdeano


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

How many shots do you think it would take to burn up the barrel? This is not a problem with a .223?


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Yeah every round is going to have a life expectancy.

The barrel life on a 22-250, my guess would be around the 4000 -5000 round mark. Just a guess, but there are many variable. How much you shoot your rifle in strings, (proper cooling), rifling twist rate, velocity. So if you're pushing a 40g bullet at 4000fps with a 1-9 twist with very little cool down you're going to shorten life. same thing going the other way, if you're shooting a 50g bullet at 3600fps with a 1-12 twist, at coyotes, once a stand for 8 stands in a day, your barrel life will be pretty decent. Most guys will never burn out a barrel in their life time, unless they have a pd town in their back yard.

I'd say pick up a 22-250 with a 1-12" twist, a good multi use bullet for this is a 50g nosler bt, it'll kill pd's to coyotes very well, loaded behind 34.0g Varget, you'll be pushing them in the 3600fps range. And get out and get some.

xdeano


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

FYI......

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=77895


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

Have owned and used both cartridges, and prefer the 223 for various reasons, the most important being noise. I shoot a lot
around livestock, and the 22-250 will spook them pretty badly. Effective range is slightly less with the 223, but accuracy is generally better, and barrel life can be MUCH better, depending on load used in the 250. Cost is a factor to me, and the availability of mil brass, the lower cost of commercial brass, and the reduction of powder used are benefits of the 223, IMHO. With a 40 Vmax and Varget I get 3700\sec and 1/2" 5 shot groups, not all that much less than the 250 with a 50 grainer. Trajectory is very close between the two. The yotes and whistle pigs never know the difference.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

AdamFisk said:


> FYI......
> 
> viewtopic.php?f=58&t=77895


Thanks for the heads up but right now TC has a 50$ rebate on all new barrels, I can get a heavy/fluted barrel Stainless for 260$. tough to pass up.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

So 4K-5K for a .22-250, how many for a .223?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Your gonna have to do an AWEFUL lot of shooting to burn out the barrel on a 250. A LOT!

Most guys wont shoot it enough to burn it out in 20+ years, in which case its pretty much a moot point. If you put 500 rounds a year through it (which is A BUNCH of shooting) youll have at least ten years of life with it most likely.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

I understand what you are saying but the fact that I can "shoot out" a .22-250 just kind of bothers me, I probably never would shoot it out but the fact that you can just seems bad to me. Could be a stupid question but can you "shoot out" a .223?


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

"HICK" You can burn out any barrel eventually , water running over a rock will eat it away eventually. Don't sweat it get the 22-250.

The best argument for the .223 has not been announced. That is they make rifles with faster twist rates! The fastest twist I have seen on a 250 is 1 in 12.

But for coyote and pdogs the 250 is king


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

I believe you will be happier with the 22-250. If I had to choose one the 22-250 would be it. The best thing to not do is shoot is until the point that the barrel get too hot. If you can't tough it you have already done damage. That is why I usually bring 3-4 rifles with on a PD shoot. That goes for all calibers, just that some like the 22-250 heat up faster due to high velocity.


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

I have shot out both a 22-250 and a 6mm Rem. Both were mid-70's rifles made by Remington. Never did they get too hot to touch.
Max loads of slow burning powder shot through small bores will, in time, erode the throat. Seating out the bullets further as accuracy decreases will extend the useful life, up to a point. Once that point is reached the barrel is pretty much junk.

They were both shot in rapid fire succession at times, however. It did indeed take in the time frame range of 20 years. The 6mm I had rebarreled, The 250 I did not.

Chances of shooting out a 223 are pretty close to zero. The powder capacity is just too small.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Hick, don't count on the $50 rebate. I purchased 2 new barrels, sent in all the required info and have never seen a dime. I even contacted T/C CS via email and have received no message back.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Woodser said:


> I have shot out both a 22-250 and a 6mm Rem. Both were mid-70's rifles made by Remington. Never did they get too hot to touch.
> Max loads of slow burning powder shot through small bores will, in time, erode the throat. Seating out the bullets further as accuracy decreases will extend the useful life, up to a point. Once that point is reached the barrel is pretty much junk.
> 
> They were both shot in rapid fire succession at times, however. It did indeed take in the time frame range of 20 years. The 6mm I had rebarreled, The 250 I did not.
> ...


Woodser, you may not believe overheating your barrel causes damage, but it does. I have seen it before. It is not the only reason, but one that can be avoided. As you said "Max loads of slow burning powder shot through small bores will, in time, erode the throat". Overheating your barrel compounds that erosion.

I have an older Ruger M77 in 22-250. A Ruger old enough to have the old adjustable fatory trigger. I bought it from my dad with many rounds through it. I have now put my share of rounds through it also over the last 10+ years. It still shoots one of the tightest groups of all my rifles at 100 yards.


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

Never said I didn't believe it, longshot. If you read the post again, I said neither had ever been too hot to touch. I also noted that both had been rapid fired on occasion (3-4 shots at max), which lends credence to the overheating causing the bore damage idea. They got hot, but in both cases they were not too hot to touch. I was commenting on an above post that stated that getting a barrel too hot to touch will burn out the barrel. My point being that a barrel does not need to get that hot to ruin it, and that damage is much more likely to occur in overbore cartridges with full loads of slow powders, hot or not. Perhaps I did not state it clearly.

I always allow cooling time between every two shots these days (even with smaller cartridges like the 223), since I blame the hot barrels, in part, for the damage. That can be a long time on a hot day when in the sun shooting an overbore cartridge. If I do not have a second rifle with me at the time, I pass on shots that present themselves when the barrel is warm. It takes discipline to do so, but I value my barrels more than another dead whistle pig. This is one reason I value the little Hornet so much: it takes a whole box of shots to get that barrel hot. ;-)


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Thanks Woodser, I was a bit confused I guess. I am a fan of the Hornet myself. Many times we will start with that on PD's as they don't seem to go down the hole so fast. Yes it does take discipline with a hot barrel, that's why I rarely only have one with at a time.


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## Jiffy. (Dec 3, 2009)

My thought on over heating your barrels........they make new ones everyday.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

I pulled the trigger and went with the .223, the burning up of the barrels just bothered me even though it would probably never effect me. Thanks for all the input.


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

A wise choice, IMHO. It will do all that you ask of it. I use the Hornady 40 Vmax, 55 SX (1:12) and the Sierra 60 HP (1:9) in mine, will excellent results.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

So for a 1:12 twist a 55 grain bullet is the way to go?


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

The 12 twist will handle anything from a 35 to a 60. Best accuracy might be anywhere from 40 to 55 grains. My 12 twist shoots the 40 VMax just as well as the 50-55 grainers, but with higher velocity and flatter trajectory. Depends on what you are shooting at. I would not use the 40s on coyotes, although I am sure they would do fine with good bullet placement. Was fortunate in that I found a 40 and a 55 (both Hornady) that shoot to the same POI at 100 yards. They are different at 300, however. I use freezer tape on the stock with 400 yard trajectories in permanent black marker. ;-)


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

I think the 55 will be a good size for most everything I will go after. I think I am going to go with the sweet .223 scope from BSA.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

please god dont wreck a good gun by puting bsa junk on it. save a little money and put some thing that is good on it. leupy,nikon,vortex,burris are all better than the bsa,tasco,swift paper wieghts.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I'll agree. But if you already have a scope and don't have money to buy a better one, then by all means use what you have and start saving your pennies. But if you're starting from scratch, the save up for a decent scope. We all know how it is, it's hard to spend the money on an expensive scope, but once you take the leap, you'll never turn back. Trust me.

My boss came up to my house for a performance appraisal and he wanted to go shoot at my range with his new toy, it had a SWFA Super sniper on top, around $300. He stopped shooting because he couldn't see through his scope, I could see just fine through mine. He didn't believe me, so I let him look at his target with my scope, and he looked back up at me and said he needs a new scope. And this guy is in his 50's, So we all try and squeeze every dime that we have, but squeezing it on a scope is a big mistake.

xdeano


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## Jiffy. (Dec 3, 2009)

You guys know me....I had to bite my tounge. :wink:


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

must have been one of the old ss, i have looked throught the new 3-9x40 and was very very impressed with it.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Jiffy, I can about imagine with you were about to say.

KurtR,
It was an older SS, on his new stick. He's now going to upgrade to an IOR 4.5-14x 50 tactical. It's a good upgrade.

xdeano


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

let us know how the ior is i have heard good and bad but never personally used one my self. in the market and looking at all options.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Well I've talked with 2 dealers now, and I get mixed reviews from both. They are a Major League scope. They offer a lot for the price tag. I've only shot through one and was pretty impressed. I've looked through about a half dozen and they look crystal clear. But to be honest I wouldn't be able to tell between the IOR, Mark4, NF. It isn't until you get to Schmidt and Bender when you see the difference in glass over the NF, and Mark4's, Leica etc. I was told by a dealer that the internal windage and elevation clicks are not on springs but on a rail and are solid, accurate and repeatable. That is one thing that they have above all of the other scope makers. The glass on the IOR is made by the same company that makes the glass for S&B, Shott Glass. So they're pretty good scopes.

If you want contact info of dealers I can give you a couple of names. just pm me.

xdeano


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

What scope would you guys recomend? I want about a 6X18 power and either the turret style adjust or Bullet Drop Reticle. I don't want to spend over around 300$.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

4.5-14 buckmaster with bdc would be more than adaquate. but 300 aint going to get you to much.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Hick...... Look at the Leopuld rifleman scope 4-12x for around $250.00 . I think this is your best bet and just learn the dope on your rifle. Maybe get a rangefinder ? This is what I am going to do for my 22-250.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

The highest zoom scope I have now is a 12 power. Is a 18 power going to make that much difference? Worth the extra $$?


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Hick, I have had a couple less expensive higher power scopes. Barska that went to 24X and a Konus M-30 that goes to 18X (both in the $300 range)and I have found the are just fine at the low and mid range powers, but when cranked all the way up they really lose sharpness in daylight and are almost worthless in low light. I am guessing you will have to spend a little more $$$ if you want an 18X to get quality, or cut it down to 14X. Most of my scopes are 12X or 14X and I think it is plenty for the shooting I do.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

KurtR said:


> 4.5-14 buckmaster with bdc would be more than adaquate. but 300 aint going to get you to much.


With the BDC does anybody find it hard to use since it has to be zoomed in all the way the have the same reference point?


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

the glass in the nikon buckmaster will blow away leupy rifleman and you can get one for 279-299 depending on reticle. look into the new nikon coyote special would be one to look at. dont know the exact price on that.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

I was looking at the coyote special but just want to hear from someone that has used the BDC retical first. It seems like a good idea but could be tricky to use.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

i like mil-dots my self, but it is a simple system and have shot nikon bdc scopes and it worked great. i like they have bigger circles in that one which would make running shots even easier. with some practice you could really get proficient with that reticle.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

With the BDC reticle you have to have it at the same zoom everytime to have the same reference, With the Mil-dot reticle does the same rule apply?


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

yes and no? with the bdc you have to have it on the power that it says that the reticle is calibrated to because it is a second focal plane scope(sfp). with the mil-dots and the sfp scope it is the same thing only calibrated for one power. the only way to have the bdc or mil dots good at any range is a first focal plane scope (ffp). price range it would be tough to find a good ffp scope talking 599 cheapest one that is quality and after that 1500 or more. i would not worry about it i set my power on 12 and never change it because that is where i can mil at. i have shot coyotes from 15 to 400 yds with no problems.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

Kurt do you find what ever you are going to shoot with the power onthe scope turned down then zoom all the way in or just always leave it on max? I am leaning toward the mil-dot reticle right now.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

i just leave it on 12 vary rarely does it come off of that unless i am trying to see bullets holes in the target. if you are going to get mil-dots look into getting a mil-dot master it will really help you get the use out of it. i think you are over thinking this what ever you get will work with practice. do you just want to use hold overs or do you want to dial the scope? if hold overs i would use the bdc unless you do get the mil dot master. the other problem is that the reticle does not match the knobe ie moa/mil. which does not get the full advantages of a mil/mil scope. as for easiest to use that bdc is a good system once you go out and shoot it to varify it is accurate.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

I would prefer to dial the scope compared to hold overs. I am looking at the Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14X40 right now. Not sure on the reticle choice. I will be shooting a .223 with 55 grain bullets.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

when it comes to shooting coyotes i like not having to dial the scope and if that is what you are wanting to do save some money and look at the new vortex that have just came out. i have the buckmaster 4.5-14x40 and love the scope but not the most internal adjustments and i think would take to much time to range dial and shoot yotes. that is where the bdc comes in range and shoot and when you get good you will be able to look through the scope and know the range just by using the circles. less time just point and shoot. but if dialing is what you want i would save some more money and look at a scope like the new vortex or swfa 3-9x40 ss. here are the new vortex they are more money but more than worth it.

First Focal Plane Models

Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP Riflescope with EBR-1 MRAD Reticle $899.95
Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP Riflescope with EBR-1 MOA Reticle $899.95 
Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP Riflescope with EBR-1 MRAD Reticle $849.95
Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP Riflescope with EBR-1 MOA Reticle $849.95

Second Focal Plane Models

Viper PST 6-24x50 Riflescope with EBR-1 MRAD Reticle $749.95 
Viper PST 6-24x50 Riflescope with EBR-1 MOA Reticle $749.95

Viper PST 4-16x50 Riflescope with EBR-1 MRAD Reticle $699.95
Viper PST 4-16x50 Riflescope with EBR-1 MOA Reticle $699.95

Viper PST 2.5-10x44 Riflescope with EBR-1 MRAD Reticle $599.95
Viper PST 2.5-10x44 Riflescope with EBR-1 MOA Reticle $599.95

Viper PST 1-4x24 Riflescope with TMCQ MRAD Reticle $499.95
Viper PST 1-4x24 Riflescope with TMCQ MOA Reticle $499.95


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Maybe on a prarie dog shoot the extra magnification would help? I find for hunting I always use low power settings but then again I may hunt different terrain from you? Like I say 12x is a high as I go and I jut use that power for target shooting! Also I like low scope mounts and the 50x drum may not allow that?


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

get the 2.5-10X44 put on low mounts and roll with that. i am putting a 20moa base under the new viper any way so the mounts wont be to high then i will make it to 1000 with that set up.


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