# american muslims gaining a foothold in politics



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200603 ... inpolitics

check this out

American Muslims are hard to count. Many immigrants have Muslim names, but African-American Muslims often don't. For example, one of the highest-ranking Muslim officials in the country is North Carolina state senator Larry Shaw.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

Disconcerting, to say the least. Burl


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## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

Oh great thats all we need.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Just another way that we are slowly subtley being invaded... This really scares the living S#$T out of me... They will change our country's values by using the very principles we hold dear and that they could never possibly have in the Middle East.

I think the last statement of the article says it all



> Waheed says he is a Democrat, but "on certain issues, I have been in bed with the Republicans." Collecting signatures for the May 9 town council election outside a supermarket, he talks to voters about education, business development, preserving green space. In his baseball cap, holding his clipboard, he could be any candidate anywhere.
> 
> "I am running because I am very conscious of the issues of the town," he explains. "I am not running because I want to represent Muslims."


Shouldn't he be trying to represent AMERICANS? I've never heard a candidate come out and say "I want to only represent Christians" :eyeroll:

Our country is going to hell in a hand basket.....


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> I am *not *running because I want to represent Muslims


You know I'm certain people like you 100 years ago had the same complaints about the new Irish immigrants too. Those who don't learn history...


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> > I am *not *running because I want to represent Muslims
> 
> 
> You know I'm certain people like you 100 years ago had the same complaints about the new Irish immigrants too. Those who don't learn history...


Yes MT I clearly saw that when I posted. My point ( I guess I was vague ...my bad) is that I'm concerned that Muslims can't seperate their political values from their religous ones. People like him are a danger because even though they espouse a certain perception of who they would like to portray themselves, they in fact have deep seated relgous beliefs that preclude them from acting towards the benefit of the average American. They vote based on their relgous beliefs which represent a fringe attitude that isn't part of mainstream America. However they manage to get elected because they have grassroots support from their church.

This is a very scary concept that may be impossible to control... and the very liberal values that YOU and I hold dear will be oppressed by these types. I'd think you would support limiting their involvement in American Politics?

Ryan

.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> You know I'm certain people like you 100 years ago had the same complaints about the new Irish immigrants too.


I don't remember Irish immigrants blowing up Americans in the name of religion.

"Don't let a few million bad apples spoil the bunch." Colin Quinn


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Im just glad they brought Corned Beef, good whisky, and Guiness!

Oh, and Flogging Molly


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> People like him are a danger because even though they espouse a certain perception of who they would like to portray themselves, they in fact have deep seated relgous beliefs that preclude them from acting towards the benefit of the average American.


How in God's name do you know the beliefs of any given Muslim? What a bigoted statement, that you can generalize all Muslims, especially American Muslims and state that they are incapable of doing good because they are too religious.



> I'd think you would support limiting their involvement in American Politics?


I generally like the idea of freedom of religion and being equal under the law.



> I don't remember Irish immigrants blowing up Americans in the name of religion.


Ever heard of the IRA? They have been duking it out with the British using terrorist techniques since the early 20th century.


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## T3|-| F7U&gt;&lt; C4P4C41 (Mar 22, 2006)

"I'm concerned that Muslims can't seperate their political values from their religous ones."

Humm...

"They vote based on their relgous beliefs which represent a fringe attitude that isn't part of mainstream America. "

WOW! Holy crap, I didn't know mainstream Americans don't vote according to their religious beliefs! But then again, when topics like 
*abortion* come up, it really makes me wonder...

"they in fact have deep seated relgous beliefs that preclude them from acting towards the benefit of the average American. "

So this statement... is true? How so? Can you please elaborate???


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> I don't remember Irish immigrants blowing up Americans in the name of religion.
> 
> Ever heard of the IRA? They have been duking it out with the British using terrorist techniques since the early 20th century.


Don't they collect taxes?? Really.... read what was written before you post such nonsense. I said AMERICANS!!! Did they come over here and blow up AMERICANS a hundred years ago?


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> Don't they collect taxes?? Really.... read what was written before you post such nonsense. I said AMERICANS!!! Did they come over here and blow up AMERICANS a hundred years ago?


I'll assume that your IRA/IRS mixup was a joke. If not, I am in awe.

Britain is very similar to America in many respects. After all, America was formed by British citizens, on the basis of British law. It seems like a rather pertainent example to me.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

Yes, this is something to observe and keep an eye on. Those mentioned in the article are far less of a threat than a great many of those who were born here and embrace the Nation of Islam. I fear the NI much more than those immigrants who have made a new, succesful life within our society. Observe, yes. Report suspicious dealings. It is your duty as a citizen. But to stop them from participating in the political arena, excepting those offices open only to native born Americans, flies in the face of the precepts upon which this country was founded. The families of All Americans were immigrants, with varying religious beliefs at one time. Those who would not work toward a unified government were weeded out, and wars were fought to solidify our democracy. I don't have the perfect solution, but to condemn a person because of their religion, taking no other behavior into account, is ignorance in the extreme. Burl


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Thank you Burl. I've been trying to come up with a way to put my thoughts out, and you pretty well covered it.

To summarize my view, I dont like it, but we cant just put a stop to it without killing what America is.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> Britain is very similar to America in many respects. After all, America was formed by British citizens, on the basis of British law.


You really have a way of deflecting don't you. The issue was muslims coming over here and changing the political landscape based on their religious views. Ryan stated they should be representing Americans not a religious faction to which you said he would be compaining about Irish immigrants coming to America 100 years ago. Not true. The Irish were coming here looking for a better life not trying to change the way we live or kill us if we were not Irish Catholics. 3000 people killed on American soil can attest to the fact that muslims invaded our country and killed because we don't live like they do.

And yes, I know what the IRA is. It's so you can retire early.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> Ryan stated they should be representing Americans not a religious faction to which you said he would be compaining about Irish immigrants coming to America 100 years ago. Not true. The Irish were coming here looking for a better life not trying to change the way we live or kill us if we were not Irish Catholics


The Muslims are coming here to look for a better life too. The quote from the article was specifically that the bloke did NOT want to serve to represent his religion, but simply because he had interest in the issues. I pointed this out.



> 3000 people killed on American soil can attest to the fact that muslims invaded our country and killed because we don't live like they do.


So you are willing to generalize and blame an entire people for the actions of a few?



> And yes, I know what the IRA is. It's so you can retire early.


I was referencing the Irish Republican Army...


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> And yes, I know what the IRA is. It's so you can retire early.
> 
> I am so sorry for you. I really, really am.


This ends todays class of SARCASAM 101. Don't take yourself so seriously. You're not going to change anyting typing away on a message board.



> The Muslims are coming here to look for a better life too. The quote from the article was specifically that the bloke did NOT want to serve to represent his religion, but simply because he had interest in the issues. I pointed this out.


The point I was trying to convey was that your example of the Irish coming here was not relevant. They came here and assimilated to the American way of life and NEVER, EVER killed AMERICANS based on religious views. Muslims have.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> And yes, I know what the IRA is. It's so you can retire early.
> 
> I was referencing the Irish Republican Army...


Why the edit MT?


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> The point I was trying to convey was that your example of the Irish coming here was not relevant. They came here and assimilated to the American way of life and NEVER, EVER killed AMERICANS based on religious views. Muslims have.


Everyone assimilates eventually, and everyone is goaded for not assimilating rapidly enough.

The Irish have killed many British due to their religious and political beliefs. I used this as a metaphor for America and it's relations with Muslims.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

MT, do you know why the IRA has attacked the Brits? The IRA thinks England was invading and they wanted Norther Ireland back. How, in any form, is this comparable to what is going on in America?


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

gun owner wrote



> Im just glad they brought Corned Beef, good whisky, and Guiness!
> 
> Oh, and Flogging Molly


Corned beef, whisky and Guiness, 100% agree, but Flogging Molly ????? :rollin:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

The issue is religious as much as it is political. I assure you of that, I have friends in Belfast. Some of them, mostly Christians, have turned to terrorist tactics to achieve an end. Yet, I doubt one would generalize their people and state that all Irish are terrorists.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

That is not the point. If Saudi Arabia was located where Canada is and the US had split British Columbia off you may have a point. We are talking about countries seperated by oceans. The IRA has a legitimate gripe, those who seek to change America by killing Americans do not. Your Irish=muslim compairison holds no water.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Ireland and England are separated by water, I suppose it is technically ocean too...

You seem to assume that all, or most or a significant portion of the Muslims in America, or even those in the Middle East seek to change our ways by killing us. What gives you this idea?


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> The issue is religious as much as it is political. I assure you of that, I have friends in Belfast. Some of them, mostly Christians, have turned to terrorist tactics to achieve an end. Yet, I doubt one would generalize their people and state that all Irish are terrorists.


Does anyone else read into this that MT befriends terrorists? Its kinda vague...

MT could you clear this up for me? Id not want to misjudge you on this.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

You are really reaching gun owner. A very sad attempt to discredit me.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> You seem to assume that all, or most or a significant portion of the Muslims in America, or even those in the Middle East seek to change our ways by killing us. What gives you this idea?


[siteimg]3922[/siteimg]

If you can show me the Irish equvalent IN AMERICA, I will go away never to be heard from again.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT you have friends in every corner of the planet don't you? Then your Christian, but defend the Muslims and bad mouth Christians. You don't want us in Iraq, but you think we perhaps should have invaded Saudi Arabia. You have stated that you don't care that our soldiers get shot at. And, it would appear to me that you don't deflect as a debate tactic, but rather to keep us from talking about violent Muslims. Your a confusing fellow. 
A few of you fellows don't mind that a Muslim country may execute a Christian. How would you feel about a Christian country executing a Muslim. Don't make a goof of yourself trying to insinuate that I want to execute a Muslim either. That's not the point. The point is to get you to look from a different perspective.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

goldhunter470 said:


> Corned beef, whisky and Guiness, 100% agree, but Flogging Molly ????? :rollin:


I've got a taste for Irish folk music. We've got a local band called Darby O'Gill, and they've opened my eyes. You should really hear Johnny Cash, Bob Dylan and Hank Williams sang in a traditional Irish flavor...

In fact, at risk of derailing this post, go to Mperia.com and search Darby. The Gates of Hell, and The Boys From County Hell are 2 of my favorites....


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Again, why are you willing to blame an entire people, more than 1 billion strong for the actions of a very few?

As to the Irish/British metaphor, let's try it this way and see if you understand

Irish terrorists are to England as Muslim terrorists are to America.

Plainsman the things you listed are not mutually exclusive.



> How would you feel about a Christian country executing a Muslim.


No better than I feel about Afghanistan trying to execute a Christian man.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

Gun owner, I appologize. How can anyone not like a band with a song called "I got so drunk (I crapped myself)" LMAO!!!!!

You did leave out Killians Irish Red though. I prefer the taste to Guiness. :beer:


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> You are really reaching gun owner. A very sad attempt to discredit me.


I wasnt reaching, its there in plain English. "I have friends in Belfast. Some of them have resorted to terrorist tactics."

I thought I'd ask for clarification, because if I came to this conclusion, and I actually like you, imagine how quickly those of this board that dont like you would reach it as well.

If I wanted to discredit you like this, I'd use your age, lack of experience, and a lot of your attitude do it for me. I dont, I simply argue point of fact with you, which again, I enjoy greatly.

I mean it when I say I like you. You remind me very much of myself when I was 16-18 yrs old in high school. I truly cant wait to see where you are in 5 yrs.

Dont think Im out to get you for being you. I'll point you out when your wrong, and I'll even admit to allowing things to become heated, but in the end I like to think I control myself quite well when it comes to throwing rocks in glass houses.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

goldhunter470 said:


> Gun owner, I appologize. How can anyone not like a band with a song called "I got so drunk (I crapped myself)" LMAO!!!!!
> 
> You did leave out Killians Irish Red though. I prefer the taste to Guiness. :beer:


Thats my buddy Rick's favorite tune. Its quite good. I too enjoy a Killians, its my beer of choice when I eat at Olive Garden. But when I see Guiness on tap signs, well I gotta have a tall, pitch black pint with a good head.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I can see where you are coming from when you pull it out of context. In the future, if attempting to get clarification on something it may be best to reserve calling someone a friend of terrorists.

To be certain that no one is able to misconstrue my words, I have friends in Belfast. They have told me of how powerful religious differences are in that area. My friend Johnny has told me stories of how if one calls a Protestant cab service in a Catholic area, they will send over a car full of guys with bats to beat you down.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> As to the Irish/British metaphor, let's try it this way and see if you understand
> 
> Irish terrorists are to England as Muslim terrorists are to America.


Don't patronize me. Please expain to me, oh Great One, how they are equal.

P.S. I have tried to have a civilized conversation with you but I can see why ABBK and hillbilly attack you on a regular basis.



> Ireland and England are separated by water, I suppose it is technically ocean too...


Technically it's called the Irish Sea, not an ocean.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> I assure you of that, I have friends in Belfast. *Some of them, mostly Christians, have turned to terrorist tactics to achieve an end.*





> I can see where you are coming from *when you pull it out of context. *In the future, if attempting to get clarification on something it may be best to reserve calling someone a friend of terrorists.


How in the hell can this statement be taken out of context?? Talk about reaching!!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"Some of them" was in reference to the Irish people as a whole, hence why I referenced them in my next sentence. The mention of my friends was simply to give some credence to my argument, as I have heard the stories of what goes on in one of the hotbeds for the IRA.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> "Some of them" was in reference to the Irish people as a whole, hence why I referenced them in my next sentence.





> Again, why are you willing to blame an entire people, more than 1 billion strong for the actions of a very few?





> Some of them, mostly Christians, have turned to terrorist tactics to achieve an end. Yet, I doubt one would generalize their people and state that all Irish are terrorists.


So what is it MT? In the first quote you say it was a reference to "Irish people as a whole". In the next two quotes you say generalizations are wrong. Quote one and three completely contradict one another. So what is it, are your friends terrorist, were you just trying to be dramatic to emphasise your view or are you just bad at conveying a message?

Maybe I can put it in a way you will understand by using your words and comparisons:

"The Irish people as a whole, mostly Christians, have turned to terroist tactics to achieve an end."

This quote was using your words, not mine.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Are you really having difficulty figuring this one our or are you just trying to nitpick each word?

Let me say it one last time in a way which you cannot misconstrue. I was not referencing my friends by "some of them", I was referencing the segment of the whole Irish population which has turned to violent methods to achieve a goal.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> "The Irish people as a whole, mostly Christians, have turned to terroist tactics to achieve an end."


This is what one can conclude from your posts. Yet at the same time you smash someone who generalizes. MT, you are just wrong in the comparison. You have stated in other posts that you can admit when you are wrong. Can you do it here? Looks like after all the spin you caught your tail but the room is a blur.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> I was not referencing my friends by "some of them", I was referencing the segment of the whole Irish population


You were not referencing "*the segment* of the whole Irish population".



> "Some of them" was in reference to the Irish people as a whole


Oh, I think you caught it again!!!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

That is a beautiful misquote. Not only did I never use those words, you have completely changed the meaning of the sentence. You are welcome to spin my words in any way you wish.

If you refuse to debate the issues at hand, namely the effect of increased numbers of Muslim voters and politicans, and instead turn to ridiculous nitpicking of word choice and misquoting, I refuse to debate.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

What "misquote" are you refering to?



> Some of them, mostly Christians, have turned to terrorist tactics to achieve an end.





> "Some of them" was in reference to the Irish people as a whole, hence why I referenced them in my next sentence.


All I did was insert "Irish people as a whole" instead of "Some of them", as you stated you meant, and I came up with:



> "The Irish people as a whole, mostly Christians, have turned to terroist tactics to achieve an end."


Do you have a bucket next to you? When I get dizzy from spinning I get sick.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> If you refuse to debate the issues at hand, namely the effect of increased numbers of Muslim voters and politicans, and instead turn to ridiculous nitpicking of word choice and misquoting, I refuse to debate.


You were the one derailed the thread, not me. You really are wrong, just admit it.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> turn to ridiculous nitpicking of word choice and misquoting, I refuse to debate.


My father once told me "Sweat the details and the big stuff takes care of itself". Maybe you should be more concerned with the "nitpicking" and your arguments would be more viable. :beer:


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