# LONG DRIVE FOR PHEASANT/DUCK



## scottintn

I've been following this website and have done tons of surfing and it looks like two southern grouse and duck hunters are headed to Emmons county for a first time pheasant hunt during the second week. Duck too.

Will most all hotels be booked up or do you guys think we can be pretty flexible/mobile in our scouting and hunting area once we are there. I feel like I better go ahead and make reservations just to be on the safe side. Any opinions. Anybody got a bunk house they want to rent for a week?

I haven't seen any regulations requiring the use of steel shot for pheasants on plots land. I'm assuming that I can use lead....Obviously steel for ducks no matter what.


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## Dick Monson

You are coming at peak season and most rooms are booked years in advance. Call now.


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## KEN W

Steel is not manditory on PLOTS land...but it is on Federal WPA's....and there are lots of them in that area.


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## buckseye

why is someone from a neighboring state so concerned with renting a house out in ND???? :spam:


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## GooseBuster3

Oh Model70 is like a caveman he only knows the words rent, house, week. And for numbers he knows the number $3000.


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## buckseye

:toofunny: uke:


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## Matt Jones

Model70 is just some booking agent leeching off the site. I'm sure those "friends" in his photo album paid him thousands of dollars to go on those hunts and line them up with a guide. I guess some people use the word "friends" very loosely. uke:


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## GooseBuster3

I think if you are from Minn and talk to somebody from out of state for acouple seconds they think they have made a good connection/friend. :lol:


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## g/o

12


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## 870 XPRS

:toofunny: toolshed :toofunny:


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## 870 XPRS

nah, i just found it humerous from a different thread


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## Bobm

Dick gave you the correct answer get your room now. I will make another suggestion try to key on either upland or duck only on your first hunt. Learn the area and then you will be able to do both next time..maybe. I wouldn't spend the money on the second license if its only a one week hunt it will take you that long to get the feel for things. Get a hotel room in a small town use the plots for a basis of your hunt and don't hire a guide you won't need one. People in ND are real friendly you will enjoy the trip. Bring a wide range of clothes temps can vary quite a bit, and bring chapstick and sunglasses the wind is something else. If your pheasant hunting for a week I hope you have several dogs if not maybe you should consider duck hunting half of each day. Two dogs will wear out in two days, three tops if you're pheasant hunting all day. Good luck.


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## scottintn

Thanks Bob. I didn't realize I would stir up such a contraversy on lodging. Your advise will be taken. We've spent alot of planning trying to figure where to go and when. We're at the point now that we just trust what we've picked and go with it.

I've found that most folks around the country are pretty friendly. It's nice to know people still let others hunt on their land just from being polite enough to ask. Most of the south is not that way anymore. I think it is due to the deer and turkey population explosion over the last 20 years. A few people abuse the land that they get to hunt and owners know that they can lease it. Leasers most always take care of the property...better than the owners many times. I don't blame them. I purchase a lease every year and am happy to do so.


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## SCpheasanthntr

Most days you should have your pheasants by 12:00. After that ride around and look for ducks and pheasants. When you find the ducks, hunt them in the morning and hunt pheasants in the afternoon. Ya'll are going to have a blast.


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## buckseye

scottintn wrote



> I purchase a lease every year and am happy to do so.


please don't lease any land in ND...... :sniper:


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## Bobm

I live in Georgia and I'm painfully aware of what you guys leasing land has done to hunting, if thats your bag stay out of ND, its the one area of the country your leasers haven't ruined.....yet! I'll quit hunting before I'll ever lease land or pay a guide.. this attitude has cost me a few hunting buddies, but I feel good about my position, hunting going down the tubes won't be on my conscience.....Your leasing land has contributed to the situation in the south and before you tell me "everybody does it " save your breath, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem....or too young to recognize the problem.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

model70 has been removed by his request.

scottintn, I'm sorry your question got blown out of proportion. I hope you get your question answered. If not, drop me a line and I'll help.


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## buckseye

gosh Chris you are going to help a uke: land leaser????? I hope you don't help him get any leases!!! Be careful, I've seen this before many times, next year when you go out to your favorite place the landowner will say sorry guys it's been leased by somebody from TN.


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## Bobm

Scottintn. Pm me or ask on this forum and I'll help you as well. I should'nt of jumped on you about the leasing issue its just a sore spot for a lot of people on this site and I guess I didn't have enough coffee this morning, please accept my apology. I can answer a lot of the questions you will need to know as a Non- Resident. Including any questions you may have on pheasant hunting tips and tactics if you haven't done much of it before. 
Thanks. What kind of and how many dogs do you plan to take with you, how long are you going to stay?


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## buckseye

I had my coffee decaf....it's probaly only a sore spot to us that have been burned before by innocent land leases.....it's a step in the wrong direction 8)


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## scottintn

No problem....I sure know what topic not to bring up while we're up there.

We'll likely only have one dog...A young Golden Retriever. He will be learning pheasants as well. We are planning on hunting Monday through Friday. I'm almost scared to ask....I haven't seen anything on Sunday hunting. Is it OK on private/Plots.


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## KEN W

Yes,it is legal to hunt here on Sundays.

Just be aware of the fact that non-res. cannot hunt state land,including PLOTS from Oct.9th through the 16th.This is the first week of pheasant season.


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## Bobm

Scot there is no way one dog can hunt pheasants 5 days straight all day, If you have any friends with dogs I suggest you ask if you can take at least one more dog with you (two more would be better) and start working with it now so it will be obedient by the season. Plan on working each dog about 2 hours a day and give him water and a small amount of food immendiately after the two hour stretch. This will help them recover. Before you go Train your dog and your friends to hup (Sit on command), pheasants run like hell and if you can't stop the dog to allow yourself to get close you will have problems getting shots. A young dog will be crazy with bird scent and run away from you after the birds, flushing them out of range. This is big country so I would try to hunt the smaller cover areas so you will have better dog control. One thing in your favor is the birds are less lkely to run as much the first week or two of the season. Try to look areas over and approach them to push the birds toward a dirt road or some other type of open cover that the birds will stop at, be alert for the flush at the end of each field and work the field slowly until you get about 50 yards from the end then hustle to the end and stand expecting a flush there many birds will sit and try to wait you out. If you can't get more than 1 dog you should probably go back to your original plan and go duck hunting with pheasant hunting as a secondary issue for a couple hours each dat at most, that way the dog can rest while duck hunting. I wouldn't even consider making the trip for pheasants with less than three dogs myself. Its a long way to go to have a two day hunt and I'm speaking from experience. Two dogs will last three days( barely) of all day pheasant hunting. Unless you and your partner can shoot real well and limit out in a couple hours each day which is real possible once you learn the ropes. Which still means duck hunting the afternoons, Just don't ask these guys about duck hunting water....... :lol:. The preferred method is to scout in the afternoons for ducks feeding in fields from what I gather (I don't hunt ducks) but there is unlimited experience to draw on if you ask the right questions. With your young dog I suggest you watch corn fields at dusk looking for pheasants flying out to roost ( they roost in low cover grass), mark where the bird land and be there at first light the next day to get your young dog into the birds, and the birds tend to hold on the roost the first week or so so you will be able to do a little better.


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## Dick Monson

Bob wrote:


> I wouldn't even consider making the trip for pheasants with less than *three* dogs myself.


Bob, you have to talk to my wife, please!!!!! I now realize I have dog defecit syndrome. Listless, bloated, sleepless.......


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## Bobm

Scottintn, Dick can hunt for an hour every afternoon all season and lives with the pheasants all year, He knows their address and probably has most of them named :lol:! You on the other hand will want to hunt hard every minute you can so bring more dogs or plan on duck hunting. Both you and the dogs will be worn out when you leave. They don't even have to be hunting dogs any mutt will hunt pheasants, they just have to obey and have some prey instinct, and most dogs do. 
Dick, you really should have at least two dogs what happens if your dog pulls up lame opening day? The best defense is a strong offense I give my wife the above line and the line that many men are chasing women and she should be happy I'm just chasing bird dogs :lol: :lol: . She doesn't think thats as funny as I do, but I've decided I've quit drinking, riding motorcycles, go to work everyday and give her all my money to spend as she sees fit, am good to her and the kids so if I want to have a couple extra dogs she will just have to put up with it. I'm worth it


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## scottintn

Bobm, Some good advise. We'll hunt hard without a doubt. The dog thing is something we we will have to try to work out. We've possibly got a third person to go which would give us a second dog. I gave away my English Setter last year because I just didn't hunt her enough to keep her. By the time deer season is over, I finish out duck season, and then have a little over 5 weeks left to concentrate on grouse. It just didn't happen. A couple of kids added to the pot in the last four years put the icing on the cake.

Bottom line...We're going, we'll hunt, we'll probably manage to bag some birds, and as usual, we'll surely have a good time.

What's the chances of getting up other types of game birds while out and about? I know there are a variety of birds in ND but I don't read many comments on hunting partridge, etc.


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## SCpheasanthntr

Most of the partridge and and sharptail I've seen have been out west. We don't even shoot at them when we have a chance because all it does is spook the roosters. There meat is very red and doesn't taste too sporty either. If you're dog is young it should be o.k. all week. We usually take two dogs and hunt them 10 days straight, but we'll try to duck hunt every couple of days to give them a rest. Hunting sunflower fields really does a number on the dogs feet. We are going to bring 3 dogs this time...one is a veteran and two are basically puppies so it's going to be very interesting. There is a very nice place to stay in Ashley that you might want to try...I can't remember what the name of it is but maybe someone around here knows what I'm talking about.


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## Bobm

You will see lots of sharptails and probably some Huns. I shoot them they are good eating you just have to know how to cook them just like venison it can be good or very bad depending on preparation. As for it spooking the roosters opening week it won't make any difference. After the pheasant realize they are being hunted they will be spookier but there are a lot young birds of the year around in the early season. I've trained labs and shorthairs for 35 years and have been making these hunts all my life and I'm telling you that no dog can hunt all day for 5 days, unless you walk the dog on heel and try to walk up the roosters yourself. Two days will wear him out, the third day the dog will be shot, bring at least one other dog and rotate them every day or plan on hunting ducks every other day so you can rest your dog. And if your dog gets hurt you won't be 2 days from home with no dog. I run six shorthairs and they are sore and tired after a week of hunting and I rotate them. Your dog will be sore from weed abrasion bring hydrocortisone cream and apply it every night it will help a little. Out west is nothing like grouse in Tn. Your will be hunting heavy cover weeds and cattails which are hard for the dog to penetrate wearing out him physically and cattails will cut him up. Bring a good first aid kit for your dog including a forceps for pulling quills if you run into a porkie. When you get to wherever you hunt talk to the local vet locate his office and get a phone number where you can reach him after hours. Pheasant hunting without a dog is a total waste of time even if you manage to flush and hit one you won't find it without the dog. If your dog's in good shape you can be a complete dunce about pheasants and still get them, without a dog you can be the best hunter in the world and not do well. By the way with three guys we usaully limit out in four days with pheasants and shartails and we have never used a guide or paid to hunt so you will be fine if you get prepared. Get in shape and get your dogs in shape. A typical day of pheasant hunting means 12 miles or more of walking and your dog if is doing his job will be covering three times that many miles. If you have any sharptails flush wild run up to the spot there are usaully stragglers.


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## Dick Monson

Huns are an occasional bird, most folks don't hunt them on purpose but consider them a bonus. And the numbers are showing up this year. Maybe sharptails aren't the best eating but they a class act always. I look forward to that season the most possibly because it is the first. You can work grass pasture, alfalfa fields, stubble, for grouse where it is easy walking, not like the old rooster hangouts. The air is crisp and the leaves just starting to turn red in grouse season. Can hardly wait.

Scott it can be hot weather here sometimes so plan on it for your pup. Last year a lot of dogs went down on the opener. Buy a .50 cal ammo can for your first aid kit and fill'er up with goodies. The stuff Bob mentioned, strechy tape, peroxide, q-tips, dog booties, tefla pads-big and little, veternary iodine (the strong stuff that makes you howl like a wounded wolf), gentamicin, pepto and a large syringe to give it with, Visine, and veternary otic solution (Gentocin) and a tube of otic salve for your pocket. Thermometer. Bob mentioned a forceps which is good. I carry a hemostat clipped right to my vest or coat. Cattail spikes can and do go right up dogs nose or eye socket and it isn't pretty. 
Don't hunt with Bob. *12*miles!!!! OK, only hunt with Bob 1/12 of a day. Just kidding Bob.


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## Bobm

Dick, we nrs gotta hunt all day :lol: so if you figure 5-6 hours at 2 plus MPH it works out. And it wears me out but I just can't stop, what an addiction, I ought to have my head examined :lol: . Sometimes my hunting buddies peter out so I leave them in my van and hunt anyway, they always threaten to leave me out there but it hasn't happened..... yet. 
I wish I lived up there it sure would be a lot easier.


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## SCpheasanthntr

It's tuff finding places to hunt out west so we usually scout after we get our limit. Chasing those sharptail takes up lots of time, time that we could be using to find places to hunt the next day. I'd rather stay east and shoot ducks instead of sharptail anyways, but that's me. We havn't had any problems with dogs tiring out either...two years ago my 10 year old chocolate lab(at the time) with bad hips(she's on cosequin) hunted the first 4 days straight and so did her 4 year old puppy as well as my buddies Brittany Spaniel. We hunt them all at the same time. We were out west also and it was tuff hunting, so I don't think a young dog will have a problem making it the 5 days. They get worn out but they love to hunt and being a little tired isn't going to stop them from chasing roosters. Maybe we are just lucky. Scott, you'll figure it out...like I said before, stay in the SE part of the state and hit cattails in the middle of the grain fields and the wind breaks(tree lines) and you'll do fine. If you have some good goose decoys use them in the fields for the ducks...for some reason they come to the geese before the ducks. Good luck and like I said you'll probably have the most fun you've ever had.


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## Southwest Fisher

How the dog does may depend on what you put her through. Some of our best birds come out of the CRP that's armpit high, and that can wear a good dog out in no time. Of course it doesn't take too long to limit out in that either! The best idea is a little of both.


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## Bobm

Scottintn, When I say out West I mean states west of the Mississippi not the western part of ND. I hunt the south east part of the state which up until lately didn't have as many pheasants or hunters. As for the dog issue note that my neighbor in SC says you can get by with one but he brings 2 or three... :lol: draw you own conclusions. I wouldn't want to drive that far and have dog pull up lame ect which can happen to even a young dog. Blah Blah Blah.....you've got enough opinions to last you a couple seasons
Good luck


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## SCpheasanthntr

Bob, I am a firm believer in having as many dogs as possible, but I don't think someone should not make the trip because they only have one dog. I'm not trying to argue with you...just trying to give a little encouragement.


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## H2OfowlND

TN...

I hunted for many years with just ONE GSP all day on pheasants. What you need to do is get your dog in tip top shape NOW! We would run her every night in july and august just to get her ready for the fall. I see too many hunters not get their dogs in shape let alone themselves. Last year in SD on their opener over 100 dogs died because of the heat and also being out of shape. Don't push the dog, let the dog tell you when its time to rest, and carry lots of water in the field. Also, get the dog to a slough when the opportunity comes about. Hunt the morning when its cool and rest during the middle of the day, then continue with an evening hunt when the temps back off again. If you want upland, worry about pheasants, chasing sharpies can and will wear you and the dog out fast. Also, if you are going to be here mid-oct, most sharpies are very wise then and will flush at about 100yds and farther out. Consider sharpies a bonus bird along with the Huns. Also, some of the best learning you can do is just sit at a safe distance and just see how others work fields. Just don't sit there for too long, guys get real nervous with others watching. Just quickly observe and move on. 
Any other questions feel free to ask or just PM me.

H2OfowlND


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## SCpheasanthntr

Very good advise...like he said, bring lots of water. The humidity is so low out there I guess it dries them out very quickly. They will drink and drink and drink some more.


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## scottintn

More excellent advise. We're used to having creeks everywhere we hunt in the mountains. Carrying water would have never crossed my mind. Dog care is obviously much more of an issue than I would have expected. We would have definitely came unprepared 'dog wise' without the advise I've been getting from you and others.


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## H2OfowlND

TN...

A good way to carry water into the field is a water bottle like you see bikers carry, and no not Harley bikers. :wink: Just slip one or two into your game vest and off you go. One thing we used to do also for our dog since she worked so hard was to give her treats. Her favorite was a Honey sandwich. Also, with large chested dogs another worry I've seen happen is flipping the stomach. Feed them early in the morning when you are getting ready, but not a full serving though. It would be like you trying to run around the block after Thanksgiving dinner. Give them small amounts in the day to keep them up, and make sure you rest them. Some of my best memories as a kid growing up were finding a tree on a section line and taking a nap with the dog. One other thing, talk to your vet and ask them what kind of pain medicine is best for dogs. We would give our GSP a slice of cheese and a couple asprin at night for her stiffness. When she heard that bottle shake the next night she would come running like a lil kid at Christmas!! If you treat your dog more like a best friend, they will do it right back!!
If you have any more questions, don't be affraid to ask them.

H2OfowlND


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## Bobm

SC phesant hunter, I was just kidding around too, nothing meant to demean your opinion, mines just a little different. I know he could go with one dog and probably will if he can't round up another one. I bring extra shotguns also so thats just me I guess.
My dogs are in peak shape year round I take them on a two mile walk everymorning and every afternoon, I go the 2 miles they probably run 10 or more each time. They will still get tired and raw if hunted all day for two consecutive days. My dogs are out of 4x NTFC Rawhides Clown and they are very high energy big rangeing dogs. If you're hunting a dog that stays within 50 yards you might get away with some more hunting time with one dog. Theres time I wish I had binoculars to keep mine in sight :lol: 
I love hunting Sharptails and don't have much problem getting them to hold for points until later in the season. I come back with a possesion limit everytime I go and if you knew what a bad shot I am you would also know that means I get a lot of chances :lol: 
I don't recommend feeding the dog in the morning especially a big dog like a golden or lab, there was just a study put out in the Purina Pro Club magazine recommending not to do it. They said feed them the night before and then right after (within 30 minutes) you quit huntng them its important that you feed them relatively quickly after your run them, because of the biological mechanism to restore their energy( glycogen I think) reserves in their muscles is more efficient right after they stop exercising.


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## Bagman

Bah~! All this talk of NEEDING a dog or MULTIPLE dogs is a JOKE! Ive been hunting this state all my life and never owned or used a hunting dog. Would I love one or two...of course. Is one ESSENTIAL to successful pheasant hunting...ABSOLUTELY NOT. Some of us just own a gun and go out and get after it. No dog limits you to smaller patches of cover but theyre fairly plentiful anyhow. Are dogs helpful...do they make your hunt easier...more enjoyable...yes...but to tell someone they NEED multiple dogs to hunt pheasants is a flat out LIE. Bob makes it sound like if you dont own a kennel full of dogs youre some deluded fool who will go home empty handed. If youre walking 12 miles a day to shoot 3 roosters(in ND) youre wasting TONS of time,shoe leather and shells or youre just out to get ALOT of exercise. 12 miles a day?? With SIX DOGS?? If I had six dogs Id like to think Id be done by 9am. Enjoy your hunt and your time in ND.


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## Bobm

I don't want to be done by 9am, a dog is the best conservation tool there is, and I like hunting all day watching the dogs point birds. Scott take his advice and leave your dog at home let us know how it turns out..... :eyeroll:


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## SCpheasanthntr

Bagman must be an Indian or have some sort of sixth sense or something :bowdown: .


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## Bobm

Or a real good nose so he can hunt down cripples :lol:


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## 1littlefeather

You can hunt with one dog if has been conditioned properly. I have hunted one dog four years in Kansas and two years in NorthDakota. We have hunted up to two weeks, taking a days rest in the middle. We have found that the dogs hold up well for one week though. I hunt a English setter and the other person that I hunt with uses a Lewellin Setter and German Shorthair. The only thing that we have found is that the dogs' paws can get torn up pretty bad, use dog boots if you are able. We could stop hunting 1 hour after we start but we choose to only shoot birds that the dogs are pointing not the wild flushes, we also shoot with a camera.

- One thing that really helps is running the dogs in fields every other day for two to three hours, too hot in GA for more during the summer. By the time we leave for the 36 hour drive the dogs have been conditioned for the hunt. :sniper:


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## Bagman

Why would I expect ANYTHING BUT narrow minded,black and white,bigoted concepts of ANYTHING from the likes of YOU Bob?? What a sad way to live. By your moronic standard the THOUSANDS of us bird hunters who dont own bird dogs should NEVER hunt. By the way GENIUS...if you hunt SMLLER PATCHES OF COVER(as I stated) the 'cripples' dont really have much of an area to hide in now do they?? If you werent so busy trying to be a smart a$$ and bothered to COMPREHEND what I said it may have made a bit more sense.

Im not sure that "must be an Indian" comment was really necessary or respectful. You clearly have LITTLE knowledge of the state which this board represents or its citizens....THOUSANDS of whom ARE NATIVE AMERICAN.


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## Brad Anderson

SO yeah, you don't need a dog to hunt pheasants.


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## Bobm

First Bagman my friend, I never said anything you accused me of, I never said you can't hunt without a dog, I never said anything about an indian. Why do you feel the need to attack me like this over an opinion?
I have seen pheasants disappear in small patches where they wouldn't be found without a dog. So has anybody thats ever hunted pheasants, much.
I did say a dog is a good thing to keep from wasting game that will be lost without it. I did make a joke about you having a good nose, thats all I did. And I will say there aren't thousands of bird hunters that hunt pheasants without a dog. I have been hunting pheasants for 36 years and I doubt in all those years I've seen 5 groups hunting pheasants without dogs probably not that many.
I will also say that you cannot show any post I've ever made indicating I'm a bigot. 
Once again Bagman is an example of someone that can't dispute the facts so he calls names and tries to impune someone. :eyeroll: Facts really bother you don't they Bagman. And all this animosity didn't come from that comment about your nose, did it now.... :lol:

What do you do when you hit a bird and it flies a couple hundred yards and then drops in a big field, I'll tell you what you do you lose that bird and leave a cripple and everyone here reading this that hunts pheasants regularly knows I'm right and you are recommending a game wasting technique of pheasant hunting. Thoughout the season my dogs find birds guys like you unintentionally leave in the field to die a lingering death. 
If you want to hunt pheasants without a dog or can't have a dog thats fine with me. I don't think you should recommend it to some young guy thats never hunted pheasants, he will lose cripples and most pheasants hit the ground with enough gas left to hide even if they die in 10 feet, after they duck under some weeds they blend in remarkably well and can be extremely hard to find.
A dog ,any kind of dog, it doesn't have to be a purebred hunting breed, can and will find most of the birds you kill.


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## pheasantslayer

I can see an agreement with both sides on this issue. I will agree with Bob on this one and say that hunting behind a dog and watching him work is an awesome experience. Watching him lock up on a bird and retrieving it when its down is something that makes training him worth it. However, you DO NOT need a dog to go pheasant hunting. All that you need to do is make sure that you limit your shots to ones that you know you can make and be sure to mark your bird when its down. If you get a close shot and mark your bird you will find it. I have hunted many days without a dog before and as you may not kick that many up you will still get your shooting in. All that it takes is patience on your part even if it means backing off on a double or triple in order to retrieve your one bird that you have marked. One of my rules is that if you get into a flock of a hundred or so birds that all get up at the same time, shoot one down, mark it, go step on his tailfeather and then you can shoot another one. Once again thats just my two cents.


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## Brad Anderson

Not trying to start a fight bob, but you must not get out pheasant hunting much. I see lotsa people hunting without a dog every year. Most of which are road hunters, but you still see people in the field without dogs.


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## Bobm

Well once again I never said you can't pheasant hunt without a dog. I said you will lose cripples. Brad I guess the more I think about it you must be right, there must be a lot of dogless pheasant hunters, that would certainly explain all the unretrieved cripples my dogs find in the course of the season. I always pull the tailfeathers on cripples so I can take a look at them when I'm cleaning them. IF pheasant slayer has never hit a bird that isn't dead when it hits the ground he is an exceptional shot much better than I, I've killed a lot of pheasants that were dead when they hit the ground but I've also knocked down plenty of them that would of been real challenging to "Step on their tail feathers", and because I hunt over well trained pointers most of the time my shots are close shots that I thought were a sure thing until I got over there and the bird was hiding somewhere else where only a dog could ever find him. Pheasant Slayer should consider trying out for the Olympic Team someone that never misses, never catches a bird with the edge of the pattern, would find Olympic competition pretty easy :lol: 
Road hunters aren't hunters they are killers.....Road hunting is only ethical for crippled or elderly people that would be happy to be out walking if they could, for anyone else it is unsportsmanlike opportunism, its illegal in many states.
Brad maybe its the areas I hunt far away from the crowds ( I've never pheasant hunted west of the river) and the fact that I usaully often hunt later in the season when access is easier to get that I don't see anyone without dogs, may well be the dogless hunters have given up by then, I suppose. I have hunted ND for about 15 years usaully two weeks a year except for a couple years after you had the big snow in the late 90s, I also hunt for two weeks most years in Kansas as well so I average about 20 days a year hunting pheasants from dawn to dusk and I have yet to see anyone hunting pheasants without a dog in ND or KS, late season hunters are probably much more serious about the sport and any serious pheasant hunter has a dog. But you live there and I'm sure you see alot of things that I never will. Brad you a blessed to live in such a beautiful place.
Brad have you ever shot a pheasant and it not be dead when it hit the ground? Maybe you can outrun a rooster an see through the weeds, I can't, I limp and have lost my X-ray glasses :lol: .


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## 1littlefeather

All I can say is that if you don't have a dog you're missing one awesome experience. I could not imagine not hunting with a dog. I have a friend in ND that hunts without, usually after the snow has fell and has good success, the main reason to get out and hunt is for the experience not the meat. He has also hunted behind our dog and thoroughly enjoyed the dog work.
If you're just going out to BAGM then there is no reason to hunt, try the grocery store. If you don't have a dog you can still enjoy one of the most awesome gifts of God, the outdoors. If you're hunting just for the meat then as I said go to the grocery store and buy chicken.

For those who haven't hunted with dogs you are missing out, there's nothing like watching 1 dog go on point and the other 5 dogs honor the point.

Also, regardless of how many CAPS you put in A MESSAGE, a dog will make the retrieval of game much easier. I have seen dogs find birds that folded dead that I could not see and I was standing within 3 foot of the bird. I guess if your nose is good it is good.


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## Field Hunter

I'd let 1littlefeather train my dog anytime....here's an idea...you train him, drop him off on your way through ND and I'll ship him to you for the off-season. Sounds better the more I think of it. My wife just might let me have another one with that set-up. Kidding aside, He and his partner have some of the nicest well behaved dogs I had the pleasure to hunt behind.


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## pheasantslayer

You gave a good reply back to me Bob, but just let me say a few words though. First of all, I do a lot of pheasant hunting and yes, I do hunt behind a dog. As stated before when you hunt behind a dog it will save you birds and it will help you kick a few more up. I will also say that I feel more comfortable taking longer range shots of around 40 or so yards because if I do cripple a bird, I am confident my dog will be able to find em. I will also say that I am no Olympic shooter and yes I have crippled birds before. Anyone who says that they haven't are telling you a lie. The point that I was trying to make is not everyone in this world owns a premium quality dog like yourself. :-? 
You should consider yourself blessed to own one. So should this stop people from hunting. Absolutely not. If you didn't have a dog would it stop you from pheasant hunting. I would hope not because it is some of the greatest hunting in the world. You don't need a dog to be successful. Later on in the season when there is 6 inches of snow on the ground and you knock down a cripple will it run, chances are most of the time it won't and if it does it won't be going as fast as they are capable of making a run down or a follow up shot more feasable. I will say that dogs work the best in the beginning of the season when roosters aren't as spooked, but what about in the later season. The most effective tactic you can use is to put blockers on the end and push the birds to them. Do you need a dog for this. It helps but you don't need one. I have shot more pheasants blocking than I have when working with a dog. However the main point that I am trying to make is if someone wants to hunt, they are hunting because they want to be out there and enjoy themselves. Some people don't have room for a dog or just can't plain afford one. Should this stop them from hunting, I would hope not. You have to make do with what you have and if this means just going out and having fun with what you have, you are out there to enjoy the great outdoors.


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## Bobm

Why does everybody keep saying I said you can't hunt pheasants without a dog?? I never said that. I said you will lose cripples, Bagman just got angry all out of proportion and jumped all over me so I kidded him about it. Its my twisted sense of humor I guess....I would not hunt pheasants without a dog because I know I would lose a lot of birds and that bothers me. I don't like to kill things for no reason, no sportsman does. But I fully understand that some people can't own a dog for any number of reasons and so they have to manage the best they can. As for late season my dogs pin birds very well in late season and you're right my dogs are real good dogs its my hobby and my passion, but I have hunted with some plain old yard dogs that were excellent at finding cripples. They might not look the part but any mutt will hunt if given a chance. The absolute best pheasant dog I've ever owned was half lab and german shepard, he would hunt circles around my high dollar Shorthairs. In his fourteen years of hunting he never lost a cripple, never once, and that included a lot of ducks as well. So it doesn't take a lot of money or investment to have a pheasant dog. That pet mutt sleeping on your couch will surprise you if given a chance. And I was just kidding you about the shooting, but no doubt you shoot better than I :lol: Have fun and don't you dare miss one this year killer :wink:


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## Bagman

Yes BOB...youre a real "kidder". Youre about as jovial in your posts as a rabid skunk. Once again BOB...2 words come to mind...READING COMPREHENSION!! I did NOT call you a BIGOT! I said you were BIGOTED in your VIEWS/CONCEPTS. Get a DICTIONARY and look the word up Bob. The very fact that you assume the word BIGOTED means you are a RACIST simply PROVES my point about you. You have your narrow,black and white view of what that word means and by God...THATS IT. Truth of the matter is Bob...after reading MANY of your posts on this board over the last year or so the word never fit anyones VIEWS better than it fits YOURS!

Facts dont bother me BOB...its DELUDED,MISPLACED, KNOW IT ALL SNOBBERY from the likes of YOU that bothers me. Youre so humble.


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## SCpheasanthntr

Bagman, you need to chill out...go drink a six pack or something. Why be :******: when you can be :beer: ?


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## drjongy

I couldn't imagine upland hunting without my dog. I could get my birds either way no problem, but most of the fun for me is actually watching the dog work. Their noses are unbelievable!!!


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## Bobm

SC hunter, Bagman is one of these logic challenged individuals that can't make a logical argument so he goes off on these tirades and calls names. He is obviously enraged by my political positions on various issues but doesn't have the smarts to debate those issues so he lurks around transfering his rage to this thread and having a little tizzy about something as ridiculous as whether of not you will lose cripples if you hunt pheasants without a dog( everybody knowledgeable on the topic agrees you will). He probably feels guilty about all the cripples he leaves and just wants to take it out on me with his ranting. Now in his irrational ranting he claims I am assuming something else I never did


> The very fact that you assume the word BIGOTED means you are a RACIST simply PROVES my point about you


Racist????where did that come from you are really out there man :lol: You can't have a logical conversation with irrational people....but there rantings are funny to read :lol: Hey bagman do you always have these imaginary conversations with yourself, ......too funny :lol: :lol:


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## scottintn

Man...You guys really need bird season to open. You obviously have too much time on your hands until it's hunting time. Try taking up fishing or something during the off season.

You guys might even like each other if you met on a hunt.


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## Bobm

Hey Scott you started all this asking for opinions on this earth shattering issue :lol: :lol: :lol:. Heaven forgive me I had one...  
So now that you see what lurks up there you still going :lol: ?
Beware the dogless hunter, lots of pent up frustration, I guess :beer:


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## scottintn

I thought you guys had forgot about me. I didn's want you to think that I wasn't listening.

Buy the way, I've got my reservations. Like you guys said, there weren't many rooms left anywhere. We actually ended up with a house. That'll be nice for cleaning birds/cooking them and give us more room for keeping the dog up. I'm real anxious. I can't go to Wal-mart without picking up another box of shells.


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## Bobm

You will have the time of your life and contrary to what it might look like watching us on this site the North Dakotans are the nicest most decent people in the whole country. If the whole country was like them we would all be alot better off. Buy lots of shells and clay pigeons it will help. Did I tell you to make sure and get some Chapstick, the wind up there can have your lips so sore you can't eat in no time....


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## Brad Anderson

BOB, I have wounded quite a few in my day. I too own a dog, but have hunted without one many times. I think everybody can agree, dogs are fun to hunt with. Makes everything a whole lot easier.

I think I spent 70 days in the field last year. No job, no school equals a lot of hunting. Can't think of anything better than pheasant hunting.

Contrary to your belief, there are a lot of dogless hunters.


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## Bobm

Brad, everybody that hunts pheasants wounds them they are tough birds, that is precisely why a guy should use a dog to hunt em. I told you before I decided you're correct that there must be a lot of dogless hunters, thats the logical explanation why my dogs find cripples all the time. How do you manage no job and no school, you have a oil well? :lol:


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## Brad Anderson

Even when you wound one, persistnece pays off. I make sure to have only one cripple on the ground at one time. 2 or 3 cripples running around at once turns into quite a dilemma.

I used to shoot the mid grade shells, not anymore. You know the 3 1/4 dram, 1 1/4 ounce shot. They just didn't seem to move fast enough, not enough killing power.

Now I strickly shoot the 3 3/4 dram, 1 1/4 ounce shot (4's that is). Even during opener, I will elect to let the birds get far enough away that I don't blow them up. 20 yards is about my best range. Modified choke with a 26" barrel is deadly at that range.

As most people know, the birds add additional plummage during winter. Then the fact they are a lot spookier and your shots tend to be a lot farther. So some times I upgrade to 3" shells, only if absolutely necessary though.

This may seem a little strange, but sometimes I will shoot the same bird twice. Once to knock him down, then once on the way down to make sure he is dead. I only do this when the first shot was not a mortal one. You what I'm talking bout, when ya just kinda wing em and you know he is going to hit the ground running.

It basically boils down to knowing your limits. Don't take bad shots.


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## 1littlefeather

Remember using a dog will get you a closer shot. If you head shoot the bird you don't have use such large shells. Try using 20 gauge with 3" #7's. It's a lot lighter and knocks 'em down just as good. If you shoot for the body then I guess the larger shell/gauge is okay. In Georgia we hunt what's called a quail :lol: , much smaller bird :wink: , you head shoot them or ruin a lot of meat. We will make the call of whether it's a bob or hen as soon as we shoot it, means you pick a spot  to shoot not an area.


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## scottintn

1littlefeather...Hopefully your just jerking our chain to get a rise out of someone. Well, if your not, you've drug me into one of these arguments.

In Tennessee, we call guys like you full of it. If you head shoot quail, you are shooting them on the ground. If you are identifying many (ie.....a bob or a hen) on the rise, your shooting pen raised birds that weren't in a flight pen, or again, shooting them on the ground.

Head shooting quail....gimme a break. I've never heard such crap.


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## Bobm

> Head shooting quail....gimme a break. I've never heard such crap.


 Geez Scot it didn't take you long to get in the swing of things did it. :lol: 
He means that he shoots at the head by leading the bird with that intent, same with pheasants, not that he only hits the head. If you aim for the body you will frequently shoot them in the *** and with pheasants that means a cripple for sure with quail or woodcock its can mean a blown up bird.


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## Bobm

Brad you didn't answer my question about the oil well??


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## tumblebuck

I'm with Scott on this one...

I hunted in Nebraska last year....My first experience with quail. The first covey that flushed, I thought they were some type of sparrow!!


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## Bobm

Quail huntings a blast, wild quail that is,. The nice thing about them is they hold for a pointer instead of running like those sneaky roosters :lol:. I have the same problem with sharptails I always think they are hen pheasants until I get my eye back for em. I've let lots of them fly away because of that, its good for laugh though.


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## 1littlefeather

One day you'll see the light. You can not shoot into a covey of quail and hit one. If you don't have dogs that hold point you'll nevewrr be close enough to see the head to even try and hit the head, oh yeah most of you guys don't have dogs. The first time I went to Kansas they couldn't believe that we coiuld call hen or bob after we shoot, I guess that's why some of you guys shoot so many hens, your eyes just aren't quick enough. :sniper: Head shooting is like bow hunting you learn to pick a spot not an area. If you have ever bow hunted you pick a spot or even a hair to shoot at and you stop concentrating on the whole animal. Remember to only shoot the pheasant with the ring around its neck. Hey Bob I believe the reason for the cripples isn't the dog, but some of the guys look for the tail feathers and that's what they shoot at, whatever you concentrate :roll: on is usually where you will hit.


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## Bobm

I agree and know exactly what your talking about. I hunt with a long bow and I hit the spot I'm looking at. I hit a wide racked twelve pointer quartering away at about 12 yards right in the horns a few years ago, guess where I was looking :lol: :lol: DOG GONE IT!


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## Brad Anderson

No oil well here. Played the market in the mid to late 90's. Needless to say, it hasn't been that good as of late.

Head shots are what we call good shots in ND. When the beak looks like it got smashed with a hammer, ya know he died in mid flight. But when he flies straight away from you, a head shot isn't going to happen. That is why I shoot heavy shells. It helps me sleep at night. Don't really have to worry about blowing them up if you let them get far enough away.


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## Bagman

"I will also say that you cannot show any post I've ever made indicating I'm a bigot. "

OK Bob...does this help:
Main Entry: big·ot noun
Etymology: Middle French, hypocrite, bigot
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices 
- big·ot·ed adjective

Exactly WHAT were you eluding to when you felt I was calling you a BIGOT if not a RACIAL connotation?? Was there some definition in your LOGIC FILLED WORLD that we are all missing? Surely anyone who frequents this board KNOWS full well that you fit the above definition to a "T". Youre about as INTOLERANT of differing opinions as anyone Ive EVER encountered. Exactly who is a "logic challenged individual" here??

BTW Bob...Im a SUPPORTING MEMBER of this site...I frequent this topic area and I dont appreciate your comment about me "lurking around". Your jabs at me are completely BASELESS and essentially show us what YOURE all about.


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## drjongy

Why don't you kids go play somewhere else and let the adults talk hunting....


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## Bobm

Drjongy Bagman keeps lurking :lol: around here maybe you can convince him to go get some counseling. He hears things and says things that didn't happen, poor little lurker is going mad.


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## ShineRunner

Went to Kansas for the first time on a ticket from a good friend that couldn't go in the mid 80's. I had a Choc Lab and he was able to retrieve all downed birds that didn't fall very close to the hunter. We brought back 67 birds, the most the group had ever shot and recovered.

I have been back almost every year since and I tell the boy's that the only reason that they keep calling me to go is because of my dogs. I have went through two Choclate Labs and now have a Boykin Spaniel.

Personally, I would not be in the hunting fields without my dog but I know it is hard for a lot of people to have a dog. The ND native that I hunt with has a Choc Lab, Brit mix and has not trained his dog but the dog has a lot of heart and does a good job hunting and finding downed birds.

If you live in a place that you can have a dog, have a few minutes a day to train, get one by all means. Once you enjoy the results of training your own dog you will know what the owners of these wonderful animals are talking about. A person needs to do some homework to decide what type of hunting companion the would meet his needs. One of the easiest to train is the lab. Try to get the dog is from hunting stock and you should be ing business.

I use only one dog and stay about two weeks in ND we vary our hunting to let the dogs rest and last year we took one day out to let the dogs rest while touring the Bobcat plant in Gwinner. Amazing place. :beer:


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## 1littlefeather

As I said before if your looking at the head a head shot is possible. Also, if they looked like sparrows then you either saw field larks or sparrows  , maybe there a little faster than the pheasant and the lack of tail feathers :idiot: . We went out yesterday and got up a covey of quail on point and a pair of quail. There was one hen and one bob together, and one hen and 8 young flyers, not sparrows. You wonder how I know what they were?? :-? Looking at the head is the only way. :wink: If you can identify the quail then you can hit the head. When we were in KS our first time we would call out what we shot and amazed the three guys that took us hunting, they also thought it wasn't possible until they hunted with us GA boys. I guess we talk slower but look and think quicker, maybe its the temperature down here :strapped:

Anyway, good luck shooting sparrows and larks. You can also train a dog to not point sparrows.


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## tumblebuck

sheeesh....lighten up....it was a joke!


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## Dano2

:lol: heh, heh, this has been very entertaining, thankyou.
I did learn a couple new things too though.
thanks


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## Bagman

I cant wait to get my PROCTOLOGY LICENSE and move to Georgia. What a potential GOLD MINE...as they all seem to have thier head(or something) up thier a$$!!!!


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## 1littlefeather

Well once again a brainyack, always thinking the @$$ end is where the head is. Let me guess you lose a lot of birds and can't find them. :******: You probably can't even tell the head from the tail. It'll be alright you come to GA and we'll give you some shooting lessons. Remember the head has a white ring around it and the tail has long feathers.


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## pointer99

Bagman said:


> I cant wait to get my PROCTOLOGY LICENSE and move to Georgia. What a potential GOLD MINE...as they all seem to have thier head(or something) up thier a$$!!!!


just what we need .......... another nawtherner who can't find his own azz without a practicioners licence. 

pointer


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## Brad Anderson

Wow, you guys are regular comedians... :eyeroll:


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## GooseBuster3

Yeah no kiddin :eyeroll:


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## smalls

i'm actually quite amused. :beer:


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## Bobm

I personally love northerners ( I was raised in Wisconsin) and all this BS is over the fact that Bagman jumped all over me because I recommended some kid from TN bring two dogs if he can find them when he goes up pheasant hunting. The reality is bagman doesn't like me (probably about my political stuff ) so hes attacking me on this thread obviously some of you agree with his position and thats fine with me, so lets not take this thread into a north VS south or NR vs R direction if possible. That stuff gets real lame after a while. Hunting season is around the corner and we should find something positive to write about.....


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## curty

Im going to have to agree with Bobm,s earlier post about any old mutt will do. Most all dogs have an instinct to hunt.They may not point or retrieve ect. but if he is trained at all to come or stay near you when called you will be suprized to see what that dog can do.
If nothing else the dog will find the bird and stay by it. So if you dont have a high dollar dog or cant afford one just try old fluffy once you may very well be amazed by his preformence. They can cover ten times the ground we can and with a nose only a dog can appreciate.


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## Bagman

Nope Bob..I never attacked anyone. I merely stated hunting without a dog was feasable and that many of us have done so in ND for years. From there all I heard was smarmy remarks. My initial post was not any sort of attack...simply offered a perspective differing from yours...and you and your pals scoffed at it. You have since labled me a 'lurker'...whatever that is. Here I thought my status was SUPPORTING MEMBER. Enjoy your season.


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## Bobm

Yes you said I told a "flat out lie" when all I did was give my heartfelt opinion, how an opinion about hunting methods could be a lie was hard to understand. That comment started all this, I don't lie. If you had said as you just did in your last post that pheasant hunting without a dog was feasible I would have agreed with you, it is feasible but anyone with any experience hunt pheasants will acknowledge the benefits of using dogs. And if you have dogs and are coming all the way from Tennesee then it makes sense to bring a couple so one can rest because we Nrs tend to hunt dawn to dusk every day we are there, and that is tough on one dog. Reread your post, I never was looking for a debate and was surprised at your "flat out lie" comment, like I said I don't care how anyone hunts I just gave my opinion as to which way works best.


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## KEN W

Hunt with or without a dog...your choice.

Kind of like with or w/o mayo....your choice.


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## Bagman

Bob...YOU need to go back and RE-READ: "If you had said as you just did in your last post that pheasant hunting without a dog was feasible I would have agreed with you, it is feasible but anyone with any experience hunt pheasants will acknowledge the benefits of using dogs"

Thats EXACTLY what I said. I CLEARLY STATED that hunting WITH a dog is a BETTER EXPERIENCE...no doubt about it. I even said Id love to have a hunting dog. I am a dog owner but my dog has dysplasia and cant get into the field. I also stated that a dog ISNT NECESSARY...i.e. it IS feasable to get by without....isnt necessary/is feasable...SAME MEANING!

Now if my use if the words "flat out lie" offended you then Im sorry...but you could have simply SAID that was the case and moved on. 
I would have apologized immediately... but that wasnt/isnt your tact. Either way Bob...have a nice season...maybe we'll see you out there. 
:beer:


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## Bobm

You have a good one too, the whole argument was silly. I shouldn't of let the lie comment get under my skin like I did.

Hey Ken, maybe you missed you calling as a marriage counselor :lol: :lol:


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