# Wasted game



## Burly1

After having followed these forums for a while I've decided to jump in and stir the pot a little. I read an article in the Bismarck Tribune recently about a couple of enterprising guys from Dickinson who started cleaning birds for pheasant hunters ( mostly NR). They decided to do this after having found large numbers of whole birds in dumpsters around local motels. Their business seems to be taking off quite well.
If these guys have been finding birds in dumpsters in Dickinson, how many birds are being wasted elsewhere in the state? Now blaming only out of state hunters for this kind of thing may be a stretch, but it would seem that the people without the facilities to take care of their game would have to be mostly those who are only visiting. I cannot, or will not exclude residents from the wasting issue, because unfortunately, game pigs can be anywhere. I don't think, however that the resident game pigs are going to throw their birds into the dumpster behind the Comfort Inn. Now, if a group of NR hunters comes to western ND for seven days, and the limit is three a day, the posession limit is twelve, how many of these guys are going to stop hunting after four days? This is assuming that these folks limit each day. With dogs and the decidedly high numbers of birds in the southwest this is very likely. I can not prove my theory, but taking into account as many of the facts as possible and considering the numbers of NR hunters, overshooting simply has to be occurring on a regular basis, IMHO. Perhaps the issues of wasting game, and overshooting are not that closely related, but I believe they are.
If the state would issue a five day license along with twelve non-reuseable pheasant tags, how much heartburn would this cause for our NR guests? Along with this I would think that the NR's should be able to purchase multiple license's, as long as they never posessed more than the legal limit of birds. This would require that they either return home after five days, or ship their birds home or elsewhere by licensed carrier, UPS or whatever, before purchasing another license. In any case, with this scenario, each and every bird harvested by a NR hunter would have to be accounted for, hopefully eliminating waste.
Please comment. I am sure that with the number of young, intelligent minds using this forum, we can come up with some very good ideas and comments without getting into excessive NR bashing.
Swing hard,
Burl


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## Bobm

The obvious loophole is that anyone who is a big enough jerk to throw a pheasant away in a dumpster is not going to tag the birds in the first place until they are in the last four days of their hunt. Why wouldn't they just clean them and give them to the local farmers, thats what I've done and most people like pheasants expecially cleaned. If thats really happening the Game and Fish should stake out a couple dumpsters and fine the hell out of them and take away their license permanently. Those people are killers not hunters anyway.


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## deacon

Why just a NR issue? Maybe it was residents, there are not plenty of rich resident slobs too?

Someone should be using TIP or RAP!


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## muzzy

It is more than likely nonresidents as possession limit for upland birds does not apply to a person's home. You can put a 1000 pheasants in your freezer, the possession limit only applies to the trip. Since NR's don't typically go home while hunting, they use the dumpster method to stay within possession limit. Most residents don't hunt for more than 4 days in a row without going home, so going over their possession limit while on a trip is not usually an issue. If you hunt 4 days, take your 12 birds, go home, you can go out for another 4 days.


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## DJRooster

Is this fact? A thousand roosters in your freezer at home? Anyone?


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## Dan Bueide

yes - "freezer limit" (actually no limit) applies to non-migratory animals.


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## Bobm

Dan, If its legal for residents to have what you call a"freezer limit" maybe the possession limit for Nrs should be raised tomatch the daily limit for the numbers of days a license is issued. It does seem strange to me that the possesion limit does not include the birds you possess in you freezer though. I always thought that the only way to change your possession number was to eat em.


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## Maverick

If we raise the NR possession limit, we will only be finding more in a dumpster. Cananda is having the same problem but with a higher number count. They are findung birds up to 500 just dumped some where and they think its' mostly from ROAG Outfitters. They will go out with clients (under the table) and when they come back with a couple hundred birds, they dig a hole and burry them or they make it to the ditch some where. Now most of this is snow geese that it's happeneing to but same thing in my eyes! Don't raise the limit! Raise the penalty for breaking the law!!!

Mav....


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## Dan Bueide

Bob, with the substantial hunter number increases we've experienced in the last several years, maybe we should lower the number of hunting days to match the possession limit :wink:


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## Ref

Maybe Burly was not intentionally trying to bash NR hunters, but after mentioning one time that it could have been resident hunters, he continued to mention NR's six more times. And most of the posts that followed also only mentioned NR hunters. Do you think that the resident hunters that come from the eastern part of the state to hunt in the western part of the state drive home every night or do they stay in motels too? In theory, other than their mailing address, there is no difference between the NR hunters and the resident hunters that travel to hunt in different areas of the state. We all stay at motels, eat in restaurants and buy gas.

Burly's intent was to bring the idea of wasted game to this thread. And he is correct about it being WRONG no matter who is doing it.


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## Maverick

I personallly have trouble thinking it's Res. ( I'm not saying it wasn't) when we have issues where Game and Fish is pending a court case of NR hunters who had 300 birds in their camp site. A lot of the hunter's I hunt with actually do go home and process everything right away. It makes it easier to do it right away than a day later. Also there are alot of Res. hunter's who have second houses out there. Base Camp. Which constitutes home for them, where they can freeze things, and transport them later. Benefits of living in the state!!!!
Really tough when CO officier think it's guided hunts ( which usually constitutes NR hunters, I'm not putting the blame on them, it's the outfitter at fault)

Mav....


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## muzzy

Just a clarification Mav, your hunting camp doesn't count as your residence, and your possession limit applies there. If you store up X number of birds there if you transport more than your possession limit to your house later, you will be over possession limit.


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## Maverick

It does however when you work out of your house and reside there more than half the year, when it's in your own state. It's your second house! Now in my instance my father works out there and my mother works in Fargo.

I'm not saying all my freezers are full but You can consider a second home residency depending on certain situations.
My point was that there are RES. hunters that have second homes in the areas they hunt, so they don't have to travel back to there first home to do everything.
Mav....


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## muzzy

That's fine, but you still can't transport more than 12 pheasants between your two residences, or possession limit will apply.


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## Maverick

I was never saying anything about transporting more than your possession limit. That's what the freezers are for! Save some for the winter time! When you can't hunt them! I never said anything about transporting more than your limit!
That's just common sense!

Mav....


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## muzzy

"Also there are alot of Res. hunter's who have second houses out there. Base Camp. Which constitutes home for them, where they can freeze things, and transport them later. "

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood what you meant, which is definately different from what you said according to the quote pasted above.


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## Maverick

Where in that statement do I say you can transport more than your possession limit? Cause I don't see it? I said transport them later. Not transport more than you possession limit later?

Mav....


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## muzzy

Just forget it. If you never had planned on having more than 12, or transporting them, how is it relevant that you have more than one place. I never said you were going to do anything. It just sounded like you were stating that you could accumulate birds at your camp or other house and then transport them later. That was evidently not what you meant, I misunderstood you, and if nothing else, was trying to make sure that no one else was misinformed. I think you could see how I misunderstood you, because if you were only going to keep and not transport more than 12 between one house and another it is no different than transporting 12 between your motel room and your house. When I go pheasant hunting and stay at a motel, I clean my birds (with foot still attached) and freeze them in the freezer that most motels have for their hunting guests which is really the same situation. If this is what you meant in the first place, it wasn't even relevant, the whole argument of possession really comes into play when you are talking about transporting. If you are not going to transport them, it was just restating the fact that you can have as many as you want in your house. If you are going to transport them, then the possession limit applies. That is when you potentially could be stopped and have your game checked. The chances of any one ever looking in your freezer is nill unless you get caught doing something else. I agree, if you are just going to keep them in your freezer and consume them at house 2, then your possession limit doesn't apply, it mostly means your limit until its final destination.


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## muzzy

Mav, through all of my above ramblings, what I was just trying to clarify the fact that if you are claiming two residency's and piling up birds in those places that your possession limit is still going to apply once you transport them between places. If you are never going to move them, then it doesn't matter. It was just confusing when you stated that you can clean them and transport them (over possession) later. Never once in my initial statement did I say you were doing this, just was stating the fact that it is not supposed to be done.

Also, if you plan on processing it at hunting camp or your other house and decide to transport it later, you need to keep some sort of ID on it.

After all of this dialogue back and forth, there really are probably very few people who have two houses that are livable year around. I just didn't want people who have a seasonal cabin/house to pile up birds during hunting season and then when they shut down the heat/electricity think they can transport them home and get in trouble. I was not pointing any fingers, just making sure that no one got the wrong idea. If my information is not wanted, just let me know. There are other ways of finding things out.


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## Bobm

Dan I took the 5 day option so the current possession limit is only one day off. Mav, you keep throwing around numbers like 100's of birds you night be able to do that duck hunting but it would sure be one hell of pheasant hunter I say if anyone can get 100 pheasants in one day he should get to keep them and I want his autograph. All kidding aside though I think the pheasant possession limit could match the 5 day license option that non- residents have without any real negative effect. Probably the type of person that would have such total direguard for the life he has taken is not going to be deterred by anything, as I said earlier they are killers not sportsman. Hell, I look for the cripples that get away for days afterward it bothers me so much.


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## muzzy

Bob, it really wouldn't be hard for someone to accumulate a large number of birds if they lived out in pheasant country and had the opportunity to go out after work and on weekends. If I lived in pheasant country, I would be out probably every day. When pheasant numbers are up as they have been the last few years, it would be pretty odd for someone in good pheasant country who is willing to get out and walk not to harvest birds.

If I remember right, you are a pointer guy. If you invested in a couple of springers you would have very few days with out a limit :lol: Just a joke between dog men.

I don't think Mav was talking about a day, we were discussing more along the lines of a season.

BobM, just for info, even residents have to follow possession limits for waterfowl, even at our residence we can only have 12 ducks at a time. I either eat mine as fast as I can or process them into jerky for this reason. Some guys make sausage or pepper sticks.


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## Ron Gilmore

I see the cleaning service doing little to stop this wanton waste. If cleaning the birds are the reason for tossing them then maybe, but the crux is that many come to an area and have great hunting then are maxed out on bird numbers and do not want to stop shooting. I hunted with some guys from out of state this fall. While they tried to get limits of birds each day they where just happy to be hunting and took what the weather allowed us,even though they never got over the limits of possesion we had birds for breakfast wrapped in bacon and took them along for snacks. I doubt any of these guys would have tossed a bird just to keep hunting.

With the broad language one can gift birds and eat them or prosses them by cooking to reduce possesion. I see the type of shooter that dumps birds as the reason we see so much exploitation of hunting today. The problem comes when you pay a fee to hunt or access land and feel you have payed for the right to shoot a limit or more every day regardless of laws. It boils down to simple ethics.

Someone mention tags for NR. I saw many hunters at the hotels and houses using grills eating the birds they shot. One group said they would be leaving ND with only 3 ducks each after 5 days of hunting. They ate what they shot. Should they not be allowed to do so? I know that I eat birds when I can and not because of possesion limits, but becasue I like them fresh instead of frozen.

One needs to focus on the root of this not if it is Res or NR that are doing the dumping. Lack of ethics and respect for the game along with outright greed and the justification of gettin ther money's worth. Not all that go afield eat what they shoot, some even dislike chinese chickens or grouse as table fare. Should they not be allowed to hunt? IMHO only if they are not giving the game to those that want it.


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## Burly1

Certainly, there are those who eat their game at the camp, motel or wherever it may be. Doing a portion of my own bird hunting in Hettinger Co. and seeing and visiting with many NR hunters, I do believe those who utilize their birds as camp food are a small minority. Granted, tagging birds for the NR hunters wouldn't be a cure all. But I really believe that with the low numbers of game wardens in our state, something more could be done to address the problem and tagging may be part of an eventual solution. As for those that wouldn't tag birds regardless of the law, well, that's part of the equation too. The old adage "locks are only to keep honest people honest" would certainly apply. Good posts all. Good thoughts.
Swing hard, Burl


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## Bobm

Muzzy those springers make cute pets for little girls don't they. Hey I'm just kidding so save your digital ink. I have a boykin spaniel I'm training right now ( maybe hes training me). We got our limit every day and could of shot many times the limit if we wanted to. My shorthairs did have trouble finding cripples opening day though, sure could of used one of your springers that day! They did fine the rest of the hunt though. Why would anyone throw out a pheasant I think they are the best eating bird there is.


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## muzzy

I agree with you Bob, pheasant is pretty good, but it is hard to beat a hun or a ruffie either.

We had some trouble with the weather also, and lost two runners that the dogs couldn't pick up the scent again on. But we broke even as they found two birds that someone else had crippled, so I feel the slate was wiped clean.

How do your shorthairs work in the cattails?


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## Bobm

Heres another one of my dumb questions what does IMHO stand for in North Dakotan??


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## KEN W

I don't think tagging will solve the problem.

What tagging will do is shorten the trips of many non-res. hunters.Most come for a week and either eat or give away birds to keep hunting.Depending on how many tags they get.

When I started hunting in ND as a non-res. 40 years ago,we were required to tag our birds.I think we had something like 3 days limit of tags.So we could eat or give away 1 limit.The only problem would be how does the GNF get the tags to them if all licenses are bought over the internet or phone.


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## muzzy

I believe it stands for "in my humble opinion".


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## muzzy

There definately is logistics problems with tags.


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## Dan Bueide

I too hunted ND as a nonresident some years ago when tags were required. Never thought it was that big of a deal.

Logistics on tags are easy. Many order the licenses in time to send the tags through the mail. License vendors have been sqwaking about loosing ancillary sales opportunities because of the trends to on-line or telephone licensing. Why not allow them to serve as the ditributors of tags for those who don't order their licenses in time to get tags through the mail?

Tags are not the panecia for anything; they're just another tool like other features.

Okay you "eater" theorists. I'm on a seven day trip and get lucky enough to do well every day. I'm able to give away and/or eat (actually fully consume - not "prepare") 30 ducks in that time? Not buying it.


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## KEN W

I never thought tagging was a big deal either.It was just the way things were done.We just had to be carefull to have some tags left for our second weekend.
A tagging system would definetly lower the pressure on the birds.


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## Bobm

Tags would just be a pain in the--- and I know you would get anymore compliance. Its like the drug war, no-matter what the dunces that are going to do drugs will find a way. You just can't ledgislate morality,decency or common sense, like gun laws only the law abiding follow them and they aren't part of the problem but they have the inconvience. I have enough trouble just keeping up with my dog whistles and glasses I don't want anything else to deal with. I'm tired of being saddled with feelgood accomplish nothing ledgislation bs because of a few bad actors. Someone said earlier that game wardens had more to do than stake out dumpsters I say make the fines stiff enough that its worth their while and add permanent loss of hunting priviledges. Just for once I would like to see the ***---s that actually do something wrong be the ones to suffer the consquences of their actions. Sorry I'm on such a rant but I'm sick to death of my activites being screwed up because of the actions of bad people that our politically correct, pussified society doesn't have the balls to punish harshly. If I were dictator they would think twice about throwing pheasants it the damn dumpster! Cut their goddam trigger fingers off if they are convicted but leave me alone.


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## Bobm

my first line is supposed to say *would not get anymore compliance*, I think I've had to much coffee this morning I'm starting to sound like I'm related to CK


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## DJRooster

Still have a conflict with the possession limit being as many as you want as long as it is your residence. Another angle, a friend of mine talked to a warden and supposedly was told in the case of pheasants, 3/day for as long as the season is open. Any comments?


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## Dan Bueide

Bob, heck if legislating or regulating morality is a complete waste of time, we could just as well do away with about 80% of our wardens. Cut them back to about 6 statewide, just enough to answer necessary calls/complaints rather than take any actual "enforcement" efforts. Think of all the public land we could acquire in lieu of salaries/benefits. :wink:

Any of these deals needs to be looked at from a cost/benefit approach. Personally, I think the "costs" (including minor inconveniences) associated with the tags is outweighed by the benefits of better protecting against the dumping of birds. With the huge disparity currently in waterfowl between the number of days that can be hunted versus the possession limit, we have an environment that strongly encourages this action.


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## KEN W

I don't think dumping would be affected.

All week pressure is what would change.No more hunting all week and giving a bunch away to stay under the limit.You use up you tags,you go home.

Also it would greatly affect non-res. that come twice.Lots less pressure.

I'm not saying this is good or bad...BUT it is one way to lower the constant pressure we are now seeing.And maybe allow more non-res. to come if a cap is on the horizon.


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## Bobm

Dan please don't put words in my mouth ( or post) I didn't say that and you know it. I said punish the people that are doing the wrong thing, harshly. In our society we always seem willing to inconvience the law abiding instead of punishing the hell out of the bad guys and I'm tired of it ( which I guess you can tell).
Harsh punishment works I'll give you an example when I lived in wisconsin in the late 60s the fine for killing deer with a spotlight at night was about $150.00. Everynight I walk my dog before I got to bed and it was common to here rifle shots in the area. The state finally got tough about it and raised the fine to $1,800.00 ( these figures might not be accurate to the penny but they are close) and forfeiture of your truck, gun and anything else they caught you with at the time. The wildlife dept got to auction off the stuff so they profited from and had an incentive to enforce the law. After the fine and enforcement tales became well known lo and behold I didn't hear anymore shots in the dark because it simply wasn't worth the risk. And you always bring it back to your favorite prey waterfowl we are talking about my favorite bird the pheasant not ducks if you want to tag ducks go right ahead because it won't affect me and it won't affect this issue. The jerks that are throwing birds away should be punished and if the punishment was harsh enough once the word got around it would stop a lot of it, but not all. Unfortunately some of the jerks that do stuff like this would probably just throw them away in the field and the tags would still be in their pockets at the end of the day while I and the other the honest among us would be busily tagging our pheasants. WHich is why tags are pointless and unenforceable. Ken W. is absolutley correct it wouldn't stop the bad guys. We as a country need to get the collective gonads to punish "evil doers" whereever they are instead of passing another regulation that will be ignored by them. I'm tired of suffering any inconvience no matter how small unless I see the bad guys get screwed first. Tell you what I'll compromise with you I'll tag the damn pheasants when you pass a law that mandatorily fines someone $5000.00 per bird thrown away and permanent revocation of license would have to be included, and its enforced. When I was a kid my friends and I used to bring our shotguns to school and store them in our lockers so we could make it to the marsh and duck hunt before it got dark, now you can't bring a fingernail clipper because of this regulate the law abiding mentality. The good people of this country are slowly but surely losing their freedoms incrementally because of this type of thinking ( its always only a small inconvience at a time). We as sportsman are also to blame because anyone one with a ounce of decency wouldn't put up with their friends doing something like throwing out birds. If one of my friends said they were going to do that I would let them know in no uncertain terms that they would be walking home from ND after I reported them the the G&F. And its a long walk from ND to my house. And I mean it! I also carry a camera and have used it to record violators in GA and turned them in for shooting a turkey illegally.


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## Dan Bueide

Bob, as Ken I have mentioned, we were both very familiar with North Dakota nonresident bird tags when previously used. Trust me, not that big a deal, unless you wish to take a bunch of birds in excess of your possession limit.

I disagree the tags would have no effect on dumping. With the significant disparity between huntable days and possession limit, I think dumping is more prevalent on a smaller scale than recognized. Only the big incidents draw attention. Under our current system, you can cheat at the thirty second period of your choosing each day. With tags, you must be willing to cheat for much longer periods, and the risk of being caught at any point in the process is substantially greater. In many other instances, safeguards like this are referred to as "deterrence", not some feel good, unnecessary regulation.

Two other things. I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, I was just giving you a little crap. Also, my "favorite" bird is the one with feathers. I'm an equal opportunity feather chaser. Because of relative season lengths, I actually hunt upland, mostly pheasants, more days than waterfowl. Under the current licensing/possession limit parameters, the tags are probably more applicable to waterfowl, so that was my example.


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## Bobm

Fair enough sometimes I need a little crap. And on this issue you have plenty to spare. As far as getting caught I have hunted ND for years and have yet to see a warden so I don't think thats much of a deterrent. Tell me what makes you think someone that will kill a beautiful animal and then toss it in a dumpster would'nt just throw them away right after they shot them. I still think the premis that laying addition regulation on good people will make bad people that have already demonstrated that they have no reguard for the law behave is ridiculous. Like I said if it was the law I'd do it but they wouldn't so what would it help. If I believed it would work I'd be all for it. So your a pheasant hunter also? What kind of dog do you have, if I get up there again this year and I'm by myself I'd like to meet and hunt ( pheasants) with you. Give you a chance to see all NR'S don't have fangs! I don't hunt all that far from where you live


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## Bobm

One more thing it occurs to me that it really doesn't make much sense to have a possession limit that doesn't match the license period, which would probably reduce some of this. Again I'm talking pheasants.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Slobs are slobs. When they start making more examples of this poor behavior it will start to stick. In the meantime there's just too many violations. It's a big state and too hard to cover. There should be stiffer penalties and more wardens to enforce it in my opinion.


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## gaddyshooter

I'll have to agree with Bob on this one. I don't think that having a certain number of tags would deter people from shooting over the possession limit it they are inclined to do so anyway. They would just dump birds earlier in their trip so they could keep the tags in their pocket and keep hunting. The way it is now, they get the possession limit in the freezer and then go out hunting and dump the rest of the birds so they dont get caught with too many birds. Despicable either way it is done, but it will just reverse the order it is done. 
Also just wanted to say it again, as I did on the duck hunting discussion on this. People that think that out of staters are driving all that way and spending all that money on lodging,gas, etc, are going to keep only 12 ducks, or 12 pheasants are kidding themselves. Now before everyone jumps all over me, I am not saying everyone is doing it, but I bet there are a lot of other people that have one cooler packed full of the birds that they want the game warded to see, and another cooler that is hidden somewhere with the rest of the birds hidden in it. I would rather take that chance of getting caught than to dump birds in a dumpster.


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## djleye

Ah Gaddy.....Maybe you should just obey the law in the first place instead of choosing how you prefer to break that law!!????
:eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## KEN W

You have a 10 day license so you should be able to take 30 birds home??????

That will never happen.....You want that you should probably go to a shooting preserve.


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## Bobm

Ken can you point to a post that says that??? No because no one said that and once again you're exaggerating the point I was trying to make. I'll try plain english again. I suggested adding one days limit to match a 5 day liscense thats 15 birds ( 3birds x5days ) which is the same as Kansas and not unreasonable. OK Geez. I also plainly stated that the current possession limit is fine with me. If your going to comment on something be accurate don't speculate about what people mean. IF I say something thats exactly what I mean nothing more or less.
Thanks


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## Bobm

And Chris is right and that is what I stated about this issue in the first place in the other thread punish the hell out of the violators. Slobs are Slobs


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## redlabel

It' hard to understand why ND would issue a 5 day license and have a 4 day possession limit.

I used to go to South Dakota with my Father-in-law when he was still living and the license had two 5 day periods with a 15 bird possession limit. I see by their G&F website that the license is still that way.

We usually went for 5 days right after Thanksgiving and hunted a friends farm west of Mitchell. We didn't have any problem bringing home our 15 birds each year without visiting any preserves.


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## KEN W

I guess I answered this on another thread.disregard the above post by me.

I don't see anything wrong with a 15 bird limit.In fact if tags were required maybe even 20,so people that live close enough can come more that once.


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## Bobm

Well I guess we beat this one to death lets talk about something else! Is there any pheasants left or did you guys get them all already?


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## gaddyshooter

Sorry Bob, I have to beat the dead horse one more time. Yes I do feel that 30 ducks is a reasonable number to be able to take home. As I said above, I EAT THE DUCKS THAT I SHOOT. I would never think of dumping ducks or any other game for that matter into a dumpster to keep shooting. If I get caught with more than the possession limit, I will pay the fines. Again I restate, I don't believe that I am in the minority here. Think about how many non residents drive to ND every year to hunt. I don't think that people will drive that far and only bring 12 ducks home. I am sorry if that makes me a "game hog" in some peoples eyes. I take vacation to come to ND to hunt in OCT, and we hunt for five days. Daily limit is 6 which doesn't mean I get 6 every day, but if I did I would take 30 ducks home with me. After that one week hunting trip, I return to my normal life in Illinois. With my work schedule, last year I only got to go duck hunting at home for TWO DAYS for the entire season, and got maybe 2-3 ducks, so I am far from a game hog.


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## Brad Anderson

Yeah, got 3 in the first walk this evening. It's nice when you have a go to field that always has birds in it. It also helps when you have exclusive hunting rights to it. Passed up a couple of really young roosters. Hope they put on feathers really quick, cause it is getting pretty cold out there. Anyhow, in regards to Game Wardens, if you haven't ever seen one while hunting, you just don't hunt enough. I've seen more GWs in the last 3 years than in my whole life. If you think they aren't out there you are kidding yourself. On resident duck opener, we saw 5 GWs in one spot. Anybody who is ignorant enough to break the law, will eventually pay for their behavior. In the end, is it really worth it?? Go to the store and buy chickens, it is cheaper than going to jail and paying a fine!! Waterfowl, hmmmmmmmm... can you say riding a strong north wind, yeah


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## Burly1

Bob, When I mentioned 12 tags and a five day license I was thinking that adding a day would be a good thing in case the hunter wasn't able to limit every day. Our hunting is good most years but not always a slam dunk. Truth be told, we are having the best pheasant year ever, from what I can see ( SO central and SW). But we all have to remember that all it will take is one good (bad) storm and we are back to the rebuilding stage. Speaking purely for myself, my experiences with out of state hunters have been nearly all positive. The exceptions are to be expected. I have had more hassle with other resident hunters. Again, something we all need to remember is that there is good and bad in every group. Please, come back to ND Bob. Our small towns welcome your contributions to the economy, in whatever manner they may come. Although the original post may have seemed a tirade against the NR's, it was intended to provoke thoughts about how to deal with the dumping problem, not how to saddle our NR guests with additional regulations which would make their visit uncomfortable. If there would be a reasonable way to assure that residents would never dump game, I'd be all for it.
Swing hard, Burl


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## Bobm

I don't think adding one days possession limit would affect pheasant populations and I still don't think tags will help either but I'll go along with the law whatever it is. Brads right though I don't hunt enough. I have never seen a warden in ND.


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## Brad Anderson

Gaddyshooter,

Not trying to start a fight but poaching isn't a good idea in ND. If you love your gun as much as I do, you would never even consider poaching. 2 birds over your limit results in automatic confiscation of your firearm. Not to mention each bird costs you $100, in excess of your daily limit. IF you get real unlucky they can ever take your truck. Survey says: poaching a BAD IDEA. I have been through game checkpoints in ND twice, where they pulled everybody over on the highway. It is similar to a sobriety checkpoint. If you remotely look like you're hunting, they have the right to search your vehicle. They will hassel you for stuff like improper identification on your birds. Just think of what they would do to you if you were poaching, not a good thought. Last and not least, the ND Game and Fish sets bird limits at levels they deem proper and sustainable. They have a lot more knowledge and insight on the matter than you or me. If everybody decided that poaching was O.K., yeah it wouldn't take long for bird populations to plunge. Trying to justify POACHING is impossible, regardless of how many miles you drive or days you work. As I already stated,"BEWARE THE WRATH OF SCOTTY!!"


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## KEN W

gaddyshooter said:


> Daily limit is 6 which doesn't mean I get 6 every day, but if I did I would take 30 ducks home with me. hog.


Sure hope 1 of our Game Wardens catches you! :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## gaddyshooter

Ok, now I have people wishing me to get arrested. Not my intention on here at all. Please educate me. I am a relatively inexperienced hunter, and mayby I just don't know any better. I am not saying that I did come there and take 30 ducks home with me, I just thought that was a reasonable number. If there are any other NR hunters on here, let me know if I am wrong, do you drive to ND and only take 12 ducks home?
Also resident hunters up there, how many ducks for an entire season do you usually shoot? From looking at all the pictures on the site, with pick up truck loads of geese/ducks it is just amazing to me. You never see anyone get that kind of numbers around where I live. So seriously, tell me what kind of number people usually shoot for a season. 
Also thanks for the info on the fines for being over the limit. Now thatI know, doesn't really seem worth It. Automatic forfuture of your gun for two birds over. Wow.


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## DuckBuster

Gaddyshooter- 
I've been hunting ND for 7 years now and I have NEVER brought back more than a two day possesion limit. My friends and I plan 2 four day trips, knowing full well that we can only bring back 12 ducks apiece. We hunt the first day (usually shooting limits everyday we hunt) When we get back to the hotel we clean birds and eat 1/2 of them that night. The second half we marinate and grill out in the feild the next day. Day 2 and 3 we leave in coolers (unproccessed) until we get home. The fourth day we wind down relax a little before the long drive home. The thought has not even crossed our minds to break the law.


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## gaddyshooter

Ok, duckbuster, thankyou for the response. I guess my thinking is just flawed, mainly I guess because I have never been taught the other way. Education and ideas are a part of this web sight and I enjoy coming on here and reading the hunting storys. 
One thing I still don't get though is I have read on here from other people saying that when they get to their possession limit, they have to eat some of the ducks/pheasants then they can go hunting again. Other people on here have said that they give some of their birds away to farmers/friends/ect, then they can go hunting again. So my question is, 5 days hunting time 6 a day limit equalls 30 total. If a guy limits out every day, (which I normally do not) he kills 30 ducks total. What difference does it make if the guy gives away or eats 18 ducks and takes 12 home with him, the total killed is still 30.
PS: I understand that fact that it is against the law, but I am talking morally why is it that different.


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## DuckBuster

I agree with you that the totals are the same... I'm not a big believer in gifting birds away, unless a landowner has specifically asked for some birds. Don't get me wrong, I would have an absolute blast going out and hunting every day and stockpiling ducks and geese in my freezer (January through September is a long time to go without duck or goose meat). But the law says you can only posses 12 ducks at a time. My guess (it's only a guess) is that this number was used to prevent every guy from going out and shooting 5 days in a row worth of ducks before anything needs to be consumed. If it was decided that possesion limits can be raised and the populatons of ducks, geese and pheasants wouldn't be destroyed, I'm all for it. But wheather the possesion limits are changed or not there will still be some wanton waste of birds (probably not much less than goes on now).


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## KEN W

ND has always had a possession limit of twice the daily limit on ducks.The Feds. decide what the daily limit is.

Gaddy...the way your post reads is that if you shot 30 you would take home 30,even if the limit is 12.I don't see the GNF changing that.


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## muzzy

The feds also decide what the possession limit will be. Not the states choice.


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## deacon

Anyone who needs more than 12 ducks to take home is hunting for the wrong reasons!


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## djleye

Well said Deacon!!!!


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## gaddyshooter

Ok, Deacon, DJL, You guys kill 12 or less ducks for an entire season?


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## djleye

No I never said that. I would however continue to hunt even if I could only shoot 6 for the season. I am in this for the participation, not the max game totals. I merely agreed that if you are in it for limits only you are in it for the wrong reason. I went on the funnest hunting trip I have ever been on this year up to Saskatchewan and we were far from our limits on each day. I did however meet some new great guys that I have since been out on another short morning hunt with very few birds bagged and I would rate the quality of these hunts as high as any I have ever been on. I learned a lot from these guys and just absolutly enjoyed every minute of the trips. I hope to share a field with these guys again soon. It was the experience that was quality, not the amount of game killed!! Actually I don't know if I killed 12 ducks this season.....I spent a week of October in Saskatchewan where there literally were no ducks. we had a high count on Opener but Ducks have been scarce since then, so I probably haven't shot 12 this year. Still have enjoyed it, except that it was over too fast!! :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Brad Anderson

This year was the worst for waterfowl I can remember. Like you stated, after the opener I really didn't see much for waterfowl. I guess I really wasn't lookin either, but in past years you didn't need to look. Ducks and Geese were a commodity, plentiful and easy to find. Some traditional areas for waterfowl were empty this year, due to low water levels. I think I only shot 12 ducks all year and maybe 4 canadas. One more year of little rain and waterfowl will be scarce in lotsa areas.


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## brketo

If you dont think residents violate the game laws check this site out aand read each regional wardens weekly report; This goes on all year long. Just because there is a line on a map or a river game violater is the same both sides

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/enforcement/ ... index.html

copy and paste above address


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## deacon

Matter of fact, YES! Actually only shot 9 in ND, but that is not the point, I go hunting to see the beauties of nature and be with my family and friends.

Shot 6 opening day for NR

Went fishing and golfing on Sunday

3 on the Monday following opening day

Never made second trip planned for this weekend as ND is froze over.

Did shoot 2 in MN. Yeah a total of 11.

Did shoot a goose yesterday, Nov 5th in MN. It was great a field had about 10,000 canada geese and just got in their flyway to their water hole. Believe this it was the last day west of 94 by Fergus Falls and the Limit is only 1. I don't understand this. Wish it didn't end. :eyeroll:


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## IAHunter

My local chapter of Pheasants Forever just had its annual banquet and we had one of the regional biologist for the state of Iowa present. During the discussion with him about hunting pressure on pheasants and the effects it has on populations he said that all studies show that you can not "wipe out" all roosters within a locale (note: not location). Hunting DOES NOT affect pheasant populations. Weather, habitat, nesting success, and depredation on hens affect pheasant populations. So, if ND were to raise the possession limit for NR to 15 or even 18 to ease the pressure on some to dump birds, it would have only one effect...how hard you have to hunt for the birds. And if you guys are late season pheasant hunters like I am, you already know where to find the birds anyway and the occasional weekend warrior will go home empty handed. Also, like Bobm, carry a camera and/or cellphone with the numbers of local CO's. It is up to us to help those guys out as much as possible.


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## Brad Anderson

Hunting doesn't affect pheasant populations. So why then do we even have a limit on pheasants??


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## IAHunter

As long as you have a viable population it will take only one rooster for 20-30 hens ("viable" being enough hens to raise enough chicks to make up, and hopefully exceed, for the mortality rates from the previous year). Limits, as set, are more from the market hunters time and the attempts to limit them. Kind of hard to make a living selling wild game if you can only get three pheasants a day. I have no idea how population dynamics in relation to grouse, waterfowl, and other birds and hunting goes. This was a Pheasants Forever banquet and I never thought to ask about them.

Another thing I learned from this biologist was that hen pheasants do not raise a second brood. They figure that if you have 100 hens around 50 will lose their nest. These 50 will renest and 25 will lose their nest. And this will continue, so all of the real young birds you see late in the summer are not second broods but third and fourth attempts at nesting. Also, hens will renest if they lose their brood within the first two days after hatching. I thought I would pass that on as an interesting side note.

IaHunter


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## Brad Anderson

I see what your saying, but thank god we have a limit. If there was no limit, people would shoot roosters until they ran out of shells. I've had countless outings where a guy could literally have filled up a pickup box full of roosters. Plus it is nice to see roosters older than one year running around.

I don't believe that there are "market hunters" in ND. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is illegal to sell wild game in ND.


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## KEN W

ND biologists have told me that 1 rooster per 10 hens is sufficient.They also say that you cannot hunt them down to less tha 3 per 10.Also if there is a tough winter,the roosters will keep the hens from the food.SO...you cannot stockpile pheasants.

We do need a limit on them.Otherwise people would never quit.The pressure on available land would be way to much.I know we could get 10 birds apiece the opening weekend...but is that necessary???


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## IAHunter

Shooting ten pheasant in one day isn't necessary. I guess the point I was trying to get at, but didn't mention, is that if ND were to raise the possesion limit, not the daily bag, to say 15 it wouldn't adversely affect the population in the state and allow the NR who buys a 5 day liscense to hunt all 5 days. That is if they chose to transport all the birds and not have a few for supper while there.

And the selling of wild game is illegal in most states. These laws were imposed with the daily limits to allow low populations time to recover and now have become part of our hunting culture. Daily bag limits do have a new use now in correlation with guide services, though. If we were to get rid of them, how many guide services do you think would start advertising the number of birds their clients shoot in one day? I would be willing to bet the vast majority. So daily limits do have a modern "market hunter" use to them, thank God.

IaHunter[/u]


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## Brad Anderson

I misinturpreted your use "market hunter", sorry. I always associated a market hunter with somebody who shoots game and then sells the meat.


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## Dan Bueide

Guys, a factor not yet discussed is "rest". Even pheasants need "rest". It seems like we're fighting this mindset that every unharvested or unmolested critter on any given day is some sort of squandered opportunity.

I'm no biologist, but I'm told it's important for hen winter survival and breeding success that they not be forced to excessively "evade". Often times in the winter, it's tough for a hen to keep her "tank full", and evasion burns a lot of fuel.

I'm sure the difficulty of any particular winter has a big bearing, but I'm told the reason ND's season closes when it does is not to put an end to an acceptable rooster harvest, because if that was the sole concern, we could hunt them much longer into the winter. Instead, lengthening the season would cause hens to evade more, putting a strain on their survival and breeding condition.

Presumably, increasing limits would, on the whole, increase hunter time in the field also causing birds to evade more often and would also strain the hens.


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## IAHunter

Dan

I guess you made me come around... a little. Stess on hens would be a major concern. I guess the question would have to be if allowing a 15 bird possession limit would cause undue stress? A question for the biologist and researchers to answer.

IaHunter


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