# Sand Lake



## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

Any predictions on what Sand Lakes duck count is going to be in the next two weeks?? I am gonna say six figures by mid october, if not the end of this week.


----------



## mallardhunter (May 15, 2004)

In a couple of weeks it better start getting cold pretty fast for that to happen.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

End of the week. :roll:


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> In a couple of weeks it better start getting cold pretty fast for that to happen.


It ain't the cold pushing them down there!!! :eyeroll:


----------



## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

What DJ is trying to say is that it is those dirty rotten scoundrels, the out of staters (and their disgusting ND guides) that are pushing them down there!
Here we go again! 
First two weekends out in the field around here, and I've only seen one party of two hunters but all kinds of birds. Maybe those DRS's are pushing them west instead of south! Thank you, out of staters and Fargoans! Keep em coming......


----------



## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Nope, don't believe it.... Blame game! With all the water around they ain't all going to South Dakota. Sorry but you will never convince me but I will never convince some of the NR bashers either. I think it's the Fargo hunters. With 100,000 people they are the reason. If we put restrictions, caps and zones on them we would all have more places to hunt. Of course I'm just kidding. Birds are to be hunted unless you are a bird watcher and lets face we all certainly qualify as that unless you are a blood thirsty killer hunter. Enjoy the resource! The best hunting is yet to come!


----------



## Flick (Aug 21, 2002)

Zach you just have no remorse for the NR's its hilarious


----------



## ADN (Sep 27, 2005)

Migratory Waterfowl are not a state resource. They are managed under the North American Waterfowl Management Plan. Guidelines for states are set forth by the USFWS. To say this state owns these birds and that state owns those birds is ludicrous.

Residents and Non-residents alike need to realize that they are ALL OF OURS and that we all need to work together for the good of the wildlife, each other, and for the good of our pass time.

Residents are just as prone to roost-jumping, shooting before hours, poaching, and trespassing as the hated non residents. Stop the whole us and them bit. It's ridiculous. That has been going on on this forum for so long. It's old.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

It is A problem! Don't like it, don't read it. :-?


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

You bet they are owned by all. But, when they are in the particular states boundries they will be managed as that state sees fit. We just haven't figured out how to properly manage them .......Yet!! South Dakota, on the other hand, has!! That is why they see such a huge jump in Waterfowl Numbers after our NR opener. They seek out areas of less pressure. No one is saying that all the ducks in the state are gone, but look at the numbers, they don't lie. With the beautiful(horribly warm) temps we are having and a large outmigration of birds, you tell me what is causing it.

And, who is trying to work for the good of the wildlife here?? We are trying to ease the constant pressure that is put on the birds.


----------



## ADN (Sep 27, 2005)

Quote from Chris Hustad - Gackle Duckfest :

"I got the call Thursday night from a friend who lives in Gackle who needed another teammate as one guy dropped out. I rolled into town and you could tell the waterfowlers have taken over this weekend, everyone was in camo. "

First of all, Chris, sorry for using you in this but it is a large portion of the argument.

Where do you break it down then? State boundaries? What if people in Lakota are tired of all the "city folk" from Fargo or Bismark coming and pushing all their birds around? Can counties develop waterfowl regulations? No. But why not, you aren't county residents. County money pays for county roads that people who don't contribute to county economics use to hunt those birds. Where the heck does it stop?

I've had to deal with the pressure that the Greenskins Classic brings opening weekend. Is that fair to the other hunters who are regulars there? Is it right that these landowners and members of the community have to put up with the added pressure of people from Fargo showing up and shooting everything?

The Resident/Non-resident issue stems not from an actual concern over the well being of the birds. If this was so, then we would hear things like, "we need to collectively decrease hunting pressure." Rather, it stems from greed, that is why we hear things like, "we need to decrease non-resident numbers/hunting pressure."

This "don't let others in, it's all ours" attitude has started to alienate some landowners. To them, Fargo is as non-resident as Fergus Falls. Beyond that, it creates riffs in the waterfowling fraternity that undermine the cooperative spirit that has fueled efforts such as Delta, DU, CRP, etc. Breaking down waterfowl management and hunting opportunities to such a ridiculous element as residency is foolish.


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

ADN, where are you from?? Just wondering where your perspective is coming from. Does your state have good waterfowling or are you one of the ones that has to come here because your state has done nothing to preserve its waterfowling and duck populations??
"We need to collectively reduce pressure on the resource", there , I said it. Actually that is what our game and fish dept. said but it was set aside by our esteemed Gov. Yes, HPC was originally the plan of the game and fish dept. I am sorry but I trust them more than you, unless of course you have a masters in wildlife biology.


----------



## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

ADN,

Maybe you haven't been keeping up with the posts on these issues. Do you really realize where the "increased hunting pressure" is coming from? Do you think it is from the decreasing number of resident waterfowl hunters? Give me a break! In the last 15 years, the non-resident percentage of ND waterfowl hunters has increased from about 5% to almost 50%. During this same time, the number of resident waterfowl hunters has actually decreased. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.


----------



## ADN (Sep 27, 2005)

Well, in the past I was a resident of North Dakota. Now, I have moved elsewhere. I won't say where I do most of my hunting, just that we have plenty of geese. My success so far this year is on the same level if not better than what I experienced while in North Dakota.

I'm not coming to North Dakota this year. Maybe not next year. The time it would take to drive to North Dakota can be used to scout fields and yield as good of results.

I understand where you are coming from. My hunting area has intense pressure. More than seen in North Dakota yet I have killed more geese this year than ever. Hard work and knowing landowners. And good fortune.

North Dakota is a great place to hunt and is also vital to waterfowl. That should be protected. I am not arguing about what things are done for duck management, I am arguing who bears the burden of it. It should be everyone. If there is a quota on the numbers of hunters or the days hunted, it should be the burden of everyone. We all need to work together to manage the resource. If you hunted the either of the last two weekends then you have contributed to the intense pressure on the birds just as much as any other individual person.


----------



## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

State manage hunting seasons... doesn't matter if it is migratory or not. If we are gonna manage the resource we need to manage the problem. I know it is hard for you to swallow, but we never had issues on a statewide level when there were 40,000 Residents and 15,000 Nonresidents. If you want to protest, protest by taking your money elsewhere.


----------



## SHOOTINGGREENHEADS (Sep 16, 2003)

ADN said:


> The Resident/Non-resident issue stems not from an actual concern over the well being of the birds. If this was so, then we would hear things like, "we need to collectively decrease hunting pressure." Rather, it stems from greed, that is why we hear things like, "we need to decrease non-resident numbers/hunting pressure."
> 
> This "don't let others in, it's all ours" attitude has started to alienate some landowners. To them, Fargo is as non-resident as Fergus Falls. Beyond that, it creates riffs in the waterfowling fraternity that undermine the cooperative spirit that has fueled efforts such as Delta, DU, CRP, etc. Breaking down waterfowl management and hunting opportunities to such a ridiculous element as residency is foolish.


Could not have stated it better................ :beer:


----------



## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Easy boys....let's slow it down.....look a the heading of this topic....let's not get another post locked because the perpetual mudslinging of the R and NR issue.

If you want to do that take it to the hot topics section.....even then I am willing to bet it will get locked after a few piles of mud get heeved.

Let's argue about this when there are not birds in the air, this time of year comes only once throughout the whole year and there are allot more interesting things to talk about as sportsman than the NR vs R issue.

Right?


----------



## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Coming from your side of the fence SGH, I would suppose you couldn't state it any better.

ADN, thanx for toning it down a bit. Most res. who post here would give up their left teste to manage the resource correctly. If Delta Waterfowl offered stock options, we would have a ton of capital laying there!! 8)

Decoyers original post states that there is a major influx of ducks in SoDak directly after NR opener, no one hunting in ND benefits from that. The quality of hunting goes from great to chit in 7 to 10 days from the non-stop pressure these birds are recieving.

With SD doling out 5000 or less lic., who will have the quality hunting by Oct.10??

777!!!  
 
Where did you say you were from ADN?


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I love it, guys from out of state telling us that there are hunters that hate in state guys. :eyeroll: When will this mythical landowner speak up. I am quite sure that there are a select few landowners that don't like Fargo guys and there are a few that don't like Minot guys and a few that don't like.....well, you get my point. Where is this groudswell of hating the "big City" guys ( I always laugh when Fargo, Bismarck, Minot, and Grand Forks are called big city, only in ND ) ? Where does it come from?? Who is telling you this??


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

ADN said:


> Quote from Chris Hustad - Gackle Duckfest :
> 
> "I got the call Thursday night from a friend who lives in Gackle who needed another teammate as one guy dropped out. I rolled into town and you could tell the waterfowlers have taken over this weekend, everyone was in camo. "
> 
> ...


First off, I didn't hold the Greenskins this year and second, the Duck Fest is in Gackle...hundreds of miles away.

I'm not going to get into the debate as to who the landowners hate more because quite frankly, I'm not one so I can't speak for them.

I'm so tired of the lame R/NR debate, it doesn't accomplish anything but put me in a bad mood since I have to read and lock all the crap.

This thread is about Sand Lake and it's numbers. Whatever anyone thinks is the reason for it's numbers, it will increase rapidly and that'll be a fact.


----------



## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

:wink:


----------



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Hmmmmmm Decoyer starts a post about the boat parade and then aobut sand lake filling up due to NRs and he is a mod for this site (at least his user name is highlighted when he is logged on like other mods). I would think the mods would do their best not to start posts that are going to put you in bad moods. (obvious post that will result in a Res/NR debate)

BTW since I am always so misunderstood let me say that I agree with Decoyer's point of view.

I think there should be a CAP and I think more bodies of water should be put off limits. Had a slough with an easy 15,000 ducks on it get jumped first thing on Sat morning. :eyeroll: As 4curl always says your welcome SD. More has to be done to keep the birds here longer. Nothing good comes out of a group of guys jumping and shooting flocks that big.


----------



## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

There is no way to remedy the problem of pressure unless you regulate the amount of hunters. That is not going to happen any time soon in ND. Nature based tourism is fully integrated into the North Dakota economic landscape and its not going away any time soon.

My real concern is not pressure anymore as I have simply stopped hunting waterfowl the first two weeks of the NR season and I know several guys who have as well.

You cannot legislate discipline in hunters. Ask any die hard goose hunter why he doesn't shoot the roost in the area he hunts. I'm sure he will tell you its because the short term gain, having a great hunt, is not worth the long term prospect of having many hunts.

If you look at it from a traveling sportsmans perspective you will only arrive at one conclusion. The traveling sportsman doesn't worry about the long term. He has a week (in most cases) to get in as much hunting as he can. So what does he do, he hunts the area that will give him the maximum return givin his time frame. What does that usually equate to??.....hunting the water where the most amount of birds are. He doesn't know how to hunt fields, he doesn't have the equipment. So he brings his boat.

I'm not picking on the traveling sportsman I'm just examining the issue from their mindset.

For all of you Resident hunters. 
There is no sense worrying about pressure or getting upset with a person because they are out blasting the water. They don't care about you, they don't even know that they should care. Accept that fact and your frustration level will go way down. At least it did for me.


----------



## ADN (Sep 27, 2005)

PorkChop said:


> I think there should be a CAP and I think more bodies of water should be put off limits. Had a slough with an easy 15,000 ducks on it get jumped first thing on Sat morning. :eyeroll: As 4curl always says your welcome SD. More has to be done to keep the birds here longer. Nothing good comes out of a group of guys jumping and shooting flocks that big.


PorkChop - I hunted opening weekend last year in North Dakota - that is RESIDENT OPENER - and a slough about a mile away with several hundred geese and even more ducks was jumped right at dawn.

djleye - When we were scouting for resident opener last year in North Dakota a landowner specifically said that residents, guys from Fargo and Bismark, (those are the towns he stated) don't need their special season and that there are plenty of birds for everyone. The special season he was referring to is the one week that residents can hunt without non-residents. If you really want to know who he is I can give you his address and telephone number. I never said every landowner doesn't like residents.

I guess we will probably never agree on the allocation of the opportunity to hunt birds. Who get's what, when, where and how? Not that either of us is less concerned about preserving waterfowl hunting long into the future, we just have different viewpoints. It is apparantly an issue that will continue on indefinitely and was not resolved with the MN vs. ND court ruling.

If is really that bad then close all state lands to non-residents. Close PLOTS lands and any other land that recieves state funding to non-residents for the entire season. That's fine, THOSE are state resources. Waterfowl are not.


----------



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

ADN said:


> PorkChop - I hunted opening weekend last year in North Dakota - that is RESIDENT OPENER - and a slough about a mile away with several hundred geese and even more ducks was jumped right at dawn.
> 
> .


ADN,

I know the water jumpers are both Res/NR. After rereading my post above I see it looks like I am pointing it all at NRs. I did a post last year about how my openning day ducks were jumped and shot 15 mins before legal shooting. I did the RAP. The guys denied it but got busted with too many hens. Anyway like I said above more areas of water should be put off limits (maybe more waterfowl rest areas???) and I still support a CAP (which would probably affect me in the future when Uncle Sam tells me its time to go).


----------



## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

I really get a kick out of this endless argument. Things go around in circles and they never stop. I love it when the guys on this site preach how communities should be promoting with free access etc. Then in the next breath say we need to have a cap and only let so many non residents in. Seems self defeating to me. Is there a problem in some areas yes, but why not have more rest areas and half day hunting if needed? Will Sand Lake fill up by this week end I doubt it. There is some nasty weather coming and that will push more of the pansy local ducks south than the nr hunters will.


----------



## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

> I really get a kick out of this endless argument


No kidding its happens EVERY time a new person signs onto the site. uke:


----------



## jb (Feb 8, 2005)

In the place I hunt in Canada all the locals make sure you know not to shoot the roost not that it takes a brain surgeon to figure that out but at least they make it clear so that everyone can enjoy the birds not just you. Im sure you guys get some real dumb NRs same as Canada but maybe you could get in with some of the local hunting shops and get them to tell people not to do that crap. I know you are still going to have the guy who hunts one time a year and who could care less about everyone else but maybe it could cut down on some of it from the guys that never crossed their mind or dont understand the work ethics


----------



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Same old story throughout this post. I think the key to any type of change, whether large or small, is to educate those who don't understand roost hunting. I know you aren't going to get through to everyone, but this site educated me and many others on that hunting philosophy. Take the time to invite a NR into your field spread and let him know why he shouldn't hunt the roost. Show him how it is done and he just may pass it along. I have family and friends coming from WI later this month. First thing I said was to leave the boat at home and went on to explain why.

I propose all that b!tch about this pool some money together and pay for education advertisement in various outdoor media, including out-of-state periodicals like MN and WI Outdoor News. Also, pay for some billboard space westbound along Hwy 2 and I-94. They could read like this:

Attention Duck Hunters: 
Leave your boats at home
Don't shoot the roost!

Obviously, the billboard idea is a stretch, but I think you get my point. Remember, you won't reach all of them, but for everyone you do it will be well worth it!


----------



## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

Im just saying the facts porkchop, nothing more, nothing less. Was there a HUGE line of boats rolling through Fargo on thursday and friday? HELL YES! Will sand lake get a lot of birds due to the pressure? YOU BET! If you have found the great mythical spot with no pressure, more power to you. I haven't been so lucky. I am sick and tired of always having to plan my hunts around where there won't be pressure. Do you have any idea how many areas over the last 4 years that I have up and left due to WAY too much pressure. Residents shouldn't have to take a back seat.


----------



## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Same old argument..I'm sick of it too, although I suspect that the question of "how do we decrease pressure on waterfowl" really translates to "how the heck to we get rid of these rotten non resident hunter competition?" As someone pointed out, if we were really concerned about pressure, then petition G&F to have half day hunts, more closed rest areas, etc. I've been out 4 of the first 9 days of the season and only on ONE occasion have I seen any hunters, a party of two from Wisc. Doubt I've heard a dozen shots other than my own and yes, I had my hearing aids in! Overhunted?? Maybe some areas but I suspect it's the falling serotonin levels in the ducks brains that are driving them to Sand Lake as much, if not more, than hunter pressure. In any case, there are still tons of underhunted ducks out there and still will be till freezup.


----------



## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Huntnfishnhabitathugger,

Since you obviously don't have any hunting pressure in your area, why don't you just post up the location of where you hunt so some of us less fortunate (and especially those non-residents who don't have time to scout) can enjoy the same great hunting you enjoy. Thank you in advance!

Jim


----------



## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Sure Jim. I can't give you GPS coordinates, although I could have if I would have known a few days ago. Ha! Anyway, take a line from Sterling through Tappen to Medina on I - 94 (start around Steele) and head anywhere north on I-94. The Robinson to Wing area all the way north to highway 200. The area north of McCluskey - Mercer - Turtle Lake and north is full of potholes. Be warned, take a good spare tire cause you won't see another hunter to get help from! Pretty good hunting south of Steele to the Napoleon - Hazelton area. Lots of pheasants down there, too, but more posted land for pheasants but almost none posted for waterfowl. My own personal favorites are the Wing - Tuttle -Robinson area and north of Mercer. Used to hunt Pettibone-Woodworth areas and never saw many hunters, but I saw someone complaining on a website about this area, although it sure was underhunted just a few years ago. I'd stay away from Lake Audubon as you will find a lot of hunters and posted land in this area, although there are some landowners that will rent you great underground goosepits really cheaply! $20 per day per hunter, but when you see the pits you realize they are a real bargain! Also a lot of hunters later on in the season in the Washburn area when the geese congregate there. 
These are just general areas. A bit of scouting will put you on all kinds of birds with little or no competition. In fact you may find yourself wishing that there was MORE competition to keep the birds moving a bit more. 
Good luck - If you need more info e-mail me anytime. 
PS Bring lots of shells!


----------



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Decoyer,

Like I said above I agree with your points and arguments. And no I don't have that secret place with no pressure. I just feel its a dead point to keep bringing it up here because it just goes back and forth, insults fly and the thread gets locked. Then the season passes, people forget, then it happens again. Same old cycle. I know the original point was part humor (out of frustration) but you know as well as I do that some people don't have a clue and don't see that humor or frustration, then the bashing begins and then Chris gets bummed. Hell this is my second fall and I am frustrated with a bunch of the crap that goes down in this state. NR/RES a like rape the resource here. Its time for us to do something. We may have our own little clicks but we need to put our eyes on the prize my brothaaaa, find a solution and get it done together. I probably only have 2 more years in this state. I could just do my time and leave. But I know better, I see what is happening. It has to be fixed. We owe it to the birds, we owe it to the state, and we owe it to the next generation. Lets break the cycle!


----------



## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Huntnfishnhabitathugger,

Sorry, but I can't agree with you on that one. Aside from DL, that area probably has one of the highest concentrations of nr waterfowl hunters in the state. I used to hunt in the Steele, Dawson, Robinson, Pettibone, Woodworth area. If you think that area doesn't have any hunting pressure, then you must be used to hunting in downtown Chicago. Take a drive around Horsehead Lake sometime. The number of nr vehicles is amazing. So is the amount of posted land. Last time I tried pass shooting there, I had to quit because the volume of traffic flared all the birds. I have some friends with access to land that I still hunt with out there, but other than that - I look elsewhere for waterfowl.


----------



## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Well, my dogs are going nuts cause I haven't been out for a few days. Tell you what. I'll do a road trip up around that specific area today if I can get out and report back. It's possible that area could be busy around the opener, when everyone wants to get out although I've not even seen it then, but by the middle or third week of Oct. it always has been pretty dead. My mutts will love a scouting trip. I'll report back later.


----------



## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

The moral of the story is Decoyer is a big city guy who hates non-resident hunters.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Huntnfishnhabitathugger said:


> I'll do a road trip up around that specific area today if I can get out and report back.


Save your gas, it was done yesterday. Butt-loads of hunters and the birds are scattered. Lots of birds on posted land ie. resource prostitutes land. Same scenario, different season.

This thread has run it's course, residents with blinders on it is time to wake up. :lame:


----------



## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Nope, I'm open minded on this, unlike so many on this website. Why does no one whine on Fishin Buddy or not many. anyway.?? If I'm wrong, I'll sure admit it. I'll start down at Long Lake (there's supposed to be Whooping Cranes there, now) then head north east from there and impartially see how many places I can find that could be hunted, talk to a few farmers and hunters and count the out of state and ND licences. I'll give you a number - not "butt loads" and "birds are scattered" They always are scattered when I hunt out there! Scattered in the spring, too, and the summer, etc. 
Heck 4 Curl, you have some very good posts, but doesn't sound to me like you are very objective, and aren't much interested in finding a solution to the problem, other than banning NR hunters from the state! Subjective biased opinions on hunter numbers, birs, etc. does nothing but stir up resentments. Banning NR's ain't going to happen, so we all should get together and work to find solutions. As my little signature says "if you aren't part of the solution (and the solution won't include banning non residents) you are part of the problem!" 
Well I'm off with my dogs and trusty old 101 just in case! Later


----------



## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

1. The mallard numbers just aren't what they have been in the area you described. Poop ducks, maybe so,I don't hunt them so I don't scout them.
Are there mallards in that area, yes but scattered and sparse.
2. 10 different vehicles with all sorts of plates (some res. also) in a 2 mile square is an azzload of hunters IMO, there is the pressure I speak of.
3.I never tauted a ban on NRs, a fair control on #s yes but never a ban. I believed in the G&F hunter pressure concept and still do. Pressure is the single largest factor of birds leaving an area period. I watched literally thousands of Mallards all winter in the same 2 fields no matter what the weather was doing. These ducks have adapted to pressure, they stay where it is safe or go where it is safe.
4. It is all about quality hunting. Everyone has there own measurement, but to alot of us it is solitude and peace of mind. Having to sleep in the field, or constantly looking over your shoulder wondering if that car is turning in the field your set up in is not the peace I seek.
I don't mind competition, it's the confrontations that are really getting old and likewise on the verge of dangerous.

Anyone want to go to Sand Lake Refuge and climb the towers this weekend, we can do our own count.


----------



## NRroostshooter (Oct 4, 2005)

jhegg said:


> ADN,
> 
> Maybe you haven't been keeping up with the posts on these issues. Do you really realize where the "increased hunting pressure" is coming from? Do you think it is from the decreasing number of resident waterfowl hunters? Give me a break! In the last 15 years, the non-resident percentage of ND waterfowl hunters has increased from about 5% to almost 50%. During this same time, the number of resident waterfowl hunters has actually decreased. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.


you think a duck knows the difference? shouldn't the total numbers of hunters be the only issue here? please help explain this one to me...and remember, I am from the South, so type slowly.

and then this quote: "I'm not picking on the traveling sportsman I'm just examining the issue from their mindset." you can't do that. you can't "think" for the NR hunter. can you explain to me why a black female thinks? i doubt it...


----------



## lasalle (Jan 15, 2003)

This topic has been "Hot" for many years since the late 90's. Coincidently I've been going to North Dakota since the late 90's and the pressure has increased some over the past years. Personally, I would like them to institute a cap around 18,000-20,000 nonresidents, not sure that will ever occur because of the tourist element.

The one thing that I'm always confused by is this topic of access to land by residents. My group almost never hunts public land. We have gotten to know a farmer who owns several sections of land, some posted some not. We general hunt the posted land so there are no "0-dark 30" surprises. I just talked with him last night and he said we could have at his land exclusively the whole time we are there. No money is passed or leases signed, only friendship, a Christmas card of my family and a holiday gift of Cabelas meat sampler: bacon, ham and sausage. All of this has been accomplished and I live 280 miles away. . . .a small amount of initial leg work.

I guess my point is things have changed a bit now you have to knock on a few doors and put on a few miles to get some great hunting. Certainly not a great deal of effort for tons of worry free hunting.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

lasalle said:


> This topic has been "Hot" for many years since the late 90's. Coincidently I've been going to North Dakota since the late 90's and the pressure has increased some over the past years. Personally, I would like them to institute a cap around 18,000-20,000 nonresidents, not sure that will ever occur because of the tourist element.
> 
> The one thing that I'm always confused by is this topic of access to land by residents. My group almost never hunts public land. We have gotten to know a farmer who owns several sections of land, some posted some not. We general hunt the posted land so there are no "0-dark 30" surprises. I just talked with him last night and he said we could have at his land exclusively the whole time we are there. No money is passed or leases signed, only friendship, a Christmas card of my family and a holiday gift of Cabelas meat sampler: bacon, ham and sausage. All of this has been accomplished and I live 280 miles away. . . .a small amount of initial leg work.
> 
> I guess my point is things have changed a bit now you have to knock on a few doors and put on a few miles to get some great hunting. Certainly not a great deal of effort for tons of worry free hunting.


I guess this is the one word residents would object to.No one else can hunt that land for a week while you are here.which makes it no different than leasing.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

NRroostshooter said:


> jhegg said:
> 
> 
> > ADN,
> ...


It's not just that the number of non-res has increased.You are right....the total number has basically remained the same.....BUT....those 50% non-res. are now taking over 70% of the ducks according to our GNF.....And the total harvest has increased as the number of non-res. has increased.So,more pressure on the ducks pushed them out faster.

Plus,yes the ducks do know the difference,because, the non-res. pressure is ALL week.We residents hunt weekends and go back to work on Mondays.Which means in the past ducks have had a rest during the week.Now they get pressured every day.So yes there is a difference between pressure now as opposed to 5-10-15 years ago.

Not saying this is bad....just different....shouldn't this constant pressure be looked at to try and keep ducks here longer....maybe close waterfowl hunting at 12:00 every weekday and all day for everyone on weekends.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I'm moving this to the hot topics.

If you want to go in circles, do it there.

This is not what the site is about.


----------



## apeterson (Aug 3, 2005)

Can't believe I waste my time reading this...... next week it will be the same just a different topic... Guess if we all move to ND then everyone will get along because then we will all be Res.... what woud be next..... Like I posted before if more people would spend more time educating people (especially new people to the sport or hunting in ND) then I think problems would be less.... If all you want to do is complain about the problem, Then I think you are part of it....

We should be asking everyone "how can we educate these people that are hunting that are not on this site and dont know......" I only say this because I have learned so much from this site and people here but everyone does not have that oportunity.

there are always going to be those who dont follow the rules no matter what... I don't believe they are the majority, maybe I am blind. I dont think we should make all rules based on a hand full of people who will do what they want no matter what.

Sorry if that seems stupid but it is how I feel!


----------



## sunfish (Oct 4, 2005)

Getting back to the orginal question, I grew up near sand lake. It is 22,000 acreas of duck hapitat. There is not one place on that refuge that you can shoot a duck by hunting on the water. The birds are totally unmolsted in that refuge ( it is a good place for a duck to hang out). So the ducks get hunted in southern ND on the sloughs and they fly down to Sand Lake where they are totally unmolested. If I were a duck thats were I would go to. There use to be alot more ducks around sand lake in the late 1990's than there is now. The bottom line is there is less ducks than there were in the late 1990's and more people hunting them. Also alot of times ND use to freeze up by the last week of October. Now with the mild winters the season has been longer and the Pheasant Hunting in ND has never been better (In modern times). I was duck hunting in ND last week end and the hunting was great. Could have used more hunters to move the ducks around in the area I was at. I think Everyone should think abought how good the bird hunting is right now with all the CRP and mild winters and take advanage of it instead of complaining. The two biggest issues facing sportsman today is continued funding for CRP (more than 70% is due to come out in 2007-2009). Also getting youth involved in the sport, we just dont have the young hunters that we need for the future of the hunting tradition.

My 2 cents.


----------



## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Sunfish, sounds like you do know the area well and if the weather is right there will be hundreds of thousand's of geese and ducks in the area providing opportunities for hunters in North and South Dakota but only if it freezes up north without freezing in the south. The last few years the birds have stuck around until Dec. but who knows what cards will be dealt this year. We have had some truly great shooting in the corn fields with roboducks during deer season. That's one of our problems down here in the south that being our best waterfowl hunting is also during our deer season so there are choices to be made! And of course this is also pheasant season so what is a guy to do??? Man oh man, life is just not fair!! I'm really lucky though because my wife says, "I don't care what you hunt but take the dog and get out there and get some meat on the table." So I try to oblige.


----------



## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Well, did my road trip yesterday then couldn't find the thread till this am. Set my odometer to zero when I reached Long Lake and put on a total of 327.8 miles all on back roads. Took note of it when I got back to the highway, so the 327 is all back roads. Here goes!
Saw 2 ND hunters in a pickup at Long Lake and a car of birders looking for whoopers. Left yesterday with the NW wind. Talked with the refuge personel who said there were very few hunters around. Not many birds on Long Lake and "there wouldn't be till the water north of I-94 freezes unless there is a LOT of hunting pressure up there. Then drove NE cross country checking out the country SE and SW of Steele. Didn't see a single hunter. Found out I forgot my shells when I saw numerous ponds full of ducks and 3 groups of sharptails on unposted land (I'm an idiot!) and tried to buy some in Steele and Robinson - none available. Saw 3 groups of out of staters in Steele, then travelled NE crisscrossing the country through Cherry Lake area (there was several campers at Cherry Lake, all ND plates) crisscrossing the country west of Horsehead and didn't see a SINGLE hunter. On my clip board I had started making down the amount of posted and unposted land and finally quit when it was pretty consistent 70% unposted. Surprisingly saw quite a few green Walk in Hunting signs, and quite a lot of good PLOTS land. Lots of ducks, not so many cranes or geese, surprisingly a lot of egrets. Saw one group from Minn. in Robinson and one group in Hurdsfield and what looked to be a couple of new hunting cabins NW of Robinson and a group from Illinois in an old farmstead. I was surprised at the numbers of potholes in that hilly country north of Robinson, most unposted and all full of pretty tame looking ducks, at least to me with no shells! Got lost on a bunch of dead end roads up there. Stopped and asked three farmers if they allow hunting. All said go ahead except for deer and one said "leave them there pheasants alone but shoot chickens and ducks all you want." Found shells in Robinson and talked to the owner of the store who said there were not many hunters around. Worried if the store will keep going. Nice little store up there - I was impressed and surprised! Depend on locals and the boost from fall hunters. So, bottom line, not many hunters, virtually no NDakotans around in these areas a few out of staters and ducks everywhere. Yes they are "scattered" all right. Like 23 in one pothole 47 in another, 15 in another, 143 in another, etc. All species noted except not many divers yet. Rafts of coots for you coot shooters! Ha! I'm still not sure what "scattered" means????
South of McClusky things changed, though! Everything posted up. Saw some kind of Lodge there which might be responsible. Had to get 20 miles away before the No Hunting signs stopped! This is the only area I would advise avoiding, although I easily got permission from the one farmer I talked to. Now that I had shells I stopped in a WPA and got a double on Gaddy's and asked a farmer for permission who said "I don't know why I post it cause I let everyone in anyway. Have at it!" I got a double on mallard drakes there and another gaddy. Missed some huns on the way back to the truck there, and picked up a grouse and missed another one on unposted land on the way home. 2 steel and IC choke isn't meant for upland birds - that's my excuse, anyway! 
From Hurdsfield on I never saw another hunter, although I'm sure there must have been some in that Lodge place I saw.
So according to my clip board, in 327 miles through prime duck country covering hundreds of square miles and a ???thousand potholes ???I saw 2 ND hunters (1 group) and 6 parties of out of staters. Was not turned down a single time for access. Pothole after pothole absolutely full of ducks of all species. The two hunting parties I talked to were having good luck and had almost no competition! Just talked to a friend who scouted the area north of Turtle Lake yesterday and he found basically the same thing I did - lots of unposted potholes and few hunters. Probably hit that tomorrow. 
The real problem with access is trying to find out who owns it. If there is a farmsted you can ask and find out, if a phone number is on the posting sign you could cell phone it, if no name or phone number it is next to impossible to find the owner. In my opinion this will be the biggest single problem to all hunters in the future if the Supreme Court overturns the hunting access laws.
But I think 4 Curl and other might be partially right. I think a lot of NR's plan to come to ND and hit 2 weekends and head home Sun night. ND hunters are out there primarily on weekends. Working, kids in school, etc. So on weekends you have "double non residents", plus a lot of locals, and access and pressure sure could get tighter. But during the week it is dead out there. So how to cut down weekend hunters? I have an idea. (A dangerous situation!)
For resident hunters, let them hunt wherever and whenever like always...
For non residents divide the state into more zones like the hunter pressure concept. Then, like the Colorado elk season, divide the first 4 weeks of the waterfowl season into four seperate hunts of 7 days each, either Sat to Sat or Sunday to Sunday. So a non resident would draw a zone and a week's time to hunt it. Could be on a first come first serve basis or a draw.. That would spread out non residents in both locality and time and halve the number of non residents on the weekends when the locals perceive them as threatening. That way you wouldn't need any caps, the G&F would get their needed revenue, and the small towns would get their badly needed business. Non residents might be mad that they would be restricted to only 7 consecutive days of hunting, but how many limits or hunting days do you need, anyway? 
Micromanaging duck hunters might look daunting on the surface but would be really simple when you look at it closely. Is ND overhunted - I don't think so, especially after cruising around yesterday and in my past experience, mainly hunting during the week. The main problem as I see it is everybody (Res and NR's)heading out to the same places at the same time with the rest of the time, during the week, being pretty dead.
As far as ducks "scattered" or "leaving for SD" in my opinion this is nonsense parroted from one disgruntled hunter to another. If ducks were leaving and if the Horsehead/Robinson areas were really overhunted, why is Lond Lake not filled up? Ducks leave when their brain stem chemicals tell them to leave as long as there is food and water available. I think hunting has little effect when there are thousands of little unhunted potholes.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but what I read on the website and what I rememberd of those areas were totally different so had to go out and have an objective first hand look for myself. OK. I'll shut up now, have a good season everybody. Looks like good year out there.


----------



## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

My bad, please ignore.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't know about the rest of the ND waterfowl hunters,but I was at work yesterday.Might it be that we are working during the week?

I would expect to see only non-res. during the week.


----------



## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

That's EXACTLY what I said, Ken! So why don't we all work together to try limit the number of non residents out there on weekends to minimmize friction with the residents?? Micromanaging NR duck hunters in ND could be exactly like micromanaging elk hunting in Colorado and fairly easy to do! That would spread out hunters and limit them geographically and timewise and halve the NR numbers on the weekends!


----------

