# Nikon vs. Leupold



## not2muchxperience

Which one's better? For a coyote trip this winter with .270s (I'm aware that it's a little bit more firepower than necessary) I'd like to get a buckmaster with high magnification and a mil-dot reticle but my uncle says we all need to get Leupold IVs. I don't have much money but his (my uncle's) repeated claim is "your father has more money than God", this is not so. Can someone give me a run down on which scope is a better choice in my position?


----------



## Horsager

Were I in your position I'd get a VX-II with the LRD reticle, probably 3-9x40.

You're going to get all sorts of answers and everyone's favorite will be what they have on their own rifles. Take the info you like, head to a store and start looking through scopes to determine your own favorite.


----------



## ej4prmc

BURRIS Fullfield 3X9 :sniper:


----------



## Remington 7400

Both Leupold and Nikon make very good optics. Leupold VX-II and Nikon Buckmasters are fine lower-mid priced scopes. Both will get the job done 99% of the time, if you have the money and feel the need the Nikon Monarch and higher grade Leupolds are very nice, but not necessary for coyote hunting.

If you are looking to keep the cost down a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42 with B-Plex can be had for somewhere around $300.00 or less if you shop around. That's a pretty nice scope for the money.

Personally I seldom find the need for more magnification than 9X, and honestly believe that you could take a fixed power 6x40 and hunt anywhere in the world with the exception of dangerous game without problem.


----------



## bandman

tough choice. My bro shoots the Nikon Monarch (3.5X10X50) and uncle shoots Leupold Vari-X IV for deer hunting. I prefer the leupold a bit more based on clarity and will be the next scope I buy.
Either one of the two brands would be an excellent choice guaranteed; especially as far as coyote hunting goes IMO!!


----------



## beartooth

If you want quality, reliablity, and preformance for the money spent and this is after 30 years of buying and owning different scopes from 75.00 to 1000.00 you sould go with Leupold VXII if money is tight or VXIII if you can afford it. :sniper:


----------



## HATCHETMAN

Notomuch....I would really give BURRIS scopes some serious consideration. As far as I'm concerned they're every bit as bright as Nikon optics, and very similar priced as well, usually MUCH cheaper than Leupold. I have sent scopes back to Burris and Leupold for work, and both had the same turnaround times, and quality customer service. I've owned Leupold Vari-X 2's and 3's and I still think the Burris scopes are much brighter, especially at low light, when it's pretty important. I would suggest you Look at all 3 brands in person magnification for magnification and be the judge for yourself. The scope isn't something you should skimp on for that important shot. Good Luck!! Let us know what you go with.

HM


----------



## iwantabuggy

I just got the Buckmaster in a 6-18x40SF. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I am confident I am going to like it. I got the BDC reticle. There are four main reasons I picked it over some others I was considering.

1. The side focus/parallax. SF beats AO any day. I have one of each.
2. 1/8 MOA adjustments.
3. Much better price than the supposedly better Leop.
4. Still has the lifetime warranty. (Good as Leop, IMO).

Good luck with your decision. If you chose the BM I don't believe you will regret it.


----------



## Jiffy

not2muchxperience said:


> I'd like to get a buckmaster with high magnification and a mil-dot reticle but my uncle says we all need to get Leupold IVs.


Do you know how to use a mil-dot reticle?


----------



## not2muchxperience

The way I've heard it you go to the range and set it for, say 200 yards, and then you can shoot it and remember that at 300 you'll be shooting one and a half notches down and for 100 half a notch up. I'm aware that it varies per gun/caliber, these are just examples.


----------



## Jiffy

aaaahhhhh, yeah..........right...........

Probably should just stick with a luepy and a B&C reticle. :beer:


----------



## 280IM

Jiffy said:


> aaaahhhhh, yeah..........right...........
> 
> Probably should just stick with a luepy and a B&C reticle. :beer:


Why shouldn't he get one the man's seems to be intelligent enough to use it.


----------



## Jiffy

Sure thing buckwheat..... :lol:

He can buy whatever the hell he wants. Although, a leupy with a B&C reticle may be best. :beer:


----------



## Horsager

Jiffy said:


> not2muchxperience said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to get a buckmaster with high magnification and a mil-dot reticle but my uncle says we all need to get Leupold IVs.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you know how to use a mil-dot reticle?
Click to expand...

Jiffy, are you saying that figuring Mils is some sort of voo-doo witch magic? Do you think a chronograph and a ballistics program might help the interrested parties? If I ever go Mil-Dot I'll be ordering the cheat sheet from Midway.


----------



## Jiffy

Its super secret voodo witch magic..... :wink:

ballistics program? mil-dot master? chronograph? ppppffrfffffttttt! cheaters! :lol:


----------



## huntin1

Jiffy said:


> ballistics program? mil-dot master? chronograph? ppppffrfffffttttt! cheaters! :lol:


Hey, I resemble that remark!  

I recommend Nikon. Wouldn't own another leupold, not that their quality is bad, I just take issue with what the new management did to Premier Reticle.

huntin1


----------



## Jiffy

huntin1 said:


> Hey, I resemble that remark!
> 
> huntin1


AAAHHHH hell!! You and I both know any shooter worth their salt uses all the tools at their disposal. :wink: 8)

Just having some fun.  :lol:


----------



## Gohon

This is not a slam Jiffy so don't take it that way. The problem is a new shooter won't know it is just fun if that is what it was. We all should be careful with someone just getting into shooting and hunting as they tend to take all comments serious because the don't know better. Apparently I wasn't the only one that didn't see the obvious poke at the young mans serious question as just having fun. Just my opinion..........


----------



## Jiffy

What? Gohon, you wouldn't slam me if you were given the chance would you? :wink: :lol:

Bottom line: If you or anybody for that matter goes out and buys a scope with a mil-dot reticle, for Gods sake learn how to use it properly. Its not hard at all and with a little instruction and practice it is quite easy to become proficient with.

Too many times have I gone out to the range or talked to people that have them and they have no idea to a very vague idea as to what they are actually used for. Don't just buy them because they look "kool." This just happens to be a pet peeve of mine.

I'm still sticking to the leupy and their B&C reticle for you. I think you would be more happy with it. :beer:


----------



## 280IM

Another good thread highjacked,the authors intelligence questioned,all kinds of funnys completely off the subject. Some people just can't keep from insulting others no matter what the subject. You know the kind the little boy in the class room aways making noise,wanting everyone's attention, insulting everyone's intelligence, the auther was asking about scopes, not what your pet peeve is. We all know you are much better,much smarter,much funnier,than everone else. you have told us many times.


----------



## Jiffy

Your incepted comments and boring drivel appears to be a rather meager attempt at getting under my skin. You're going to have to do better than that. If you feel the need to make further attempts please feel free to PM me. Thanks. :beer:

Again, luepys B&C reticle will probably make you quite happy. I'd get it in 2.5-8x36mm VX-III. Good luck in your choice. Remember no matter what scope you end up with, practice is what makes you proficient. :beer: :beer:


----------



## Horsager

280IM, I must say that I agree with Jiffy. Too many folks buying shtuff they don't know how to use. If you're going to have a subtension reticle of any kind (B&C, Ballistic plex, mil-dot, etc) you also NEED a chronograph (or you have to shoot a ton-load of ammo), lastly you need a ballistics program and need to know how to use it.

The results received by not knowing your subtension/LR/Mil-Dot reticle are these:

1. Missed and educated coyotes, fox, bobcats, Prairie Dogs, etc
2. Wounded big game
3. Missed backstops that send bullets whizzing off into never-neverland

For the original poster, the B&C reticles work great I use them on a couple of rifles. The B&C only comes on the VX-III scopes, if you're looking for something less expensive then Leupold makes their LR reticle in the VX-II scopes that is very similar to the B&C only without the windage.


----------



## Gohon

You and I taking a poke at each other is apples to oranges. We're not new to the sport and just learning.

To say "learn how to use it properly" or "Its not hard at all and with a little instruction and practice" is completely contrary to what you first told the guy. You don't learn to drive without getting into the car first. You don't learn to use a mil-dot scope without mounting one on your rifle. As pointed out by others and now you, there is nothing magic about using a mil-dot.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the B&C reticles or the Burris BallisticPlex (my choice), Nikon BDC or other such scopes. They all work just fine and in the same manner, and for the majority of hunters that are shooting a maximum of 300-400 yards they are IMO a better choice. All I'm saying is have the courtesy to give the guy a explanation of the why of your recommendation instead of a sarcastic poke in the eye as if he is to ignorant to ever learn. Just seems to be common courtesy to me.


----------



## Jiffy

Gohon,

If you want tact go talk to plainsman. 

Feel like talking about it more PM me. No need to clutter up this guys thread.


----------



## Plainsman

Well, anyone who signs on as not2muchxperience I would guess is open to suggestion. If you look back a couple of years you will see that I am not happy at all with Nikon. I had a 6.5X20 Monarch that I didn't like. To long to explain here again. 
Currently I have a half dozen Leupolds and four Nikons. One day while bored and walking around Sportsman's Warehouse I picked up a Buckmaster. It was clear, side parallax adjustment, mil-dot, and looked like a very nice scope. The salesman just couldn't convince me so we actually called Nikon. They said they guaranteed ¼ inch clicks which I far prefer over 1/8 inch. Next they let me set the scope in sandbags and use one of their laser rangefinders. On a board up front at 50 yards I made a five inch adjustment on the target turret. I then told the salesman if that board is 2.5 inches I will buy this scope. It was, and I now have four of those buck masters.
If I was willing to spend $1000 on a scope, it would be a Leupold MarkIV, but if I wanted a good scope under $500 it would be a Nikon Buckmaster. The side parallax is nice for an old guy like me in the prone position. The cross hairs look real heavy, but they subtend less than ¼ inch at 100 yards.
On the recommendations you have been given so far I will add this. If you are a person who just wants to go out and shoot without the hassle of really getting into ballistics get a bullet drop compensator reticule, but if like many of us on here you want to get into and understand the use of a mil-dot, then by all means get one. I wouldn't be without one. 
Many of us on this site wouldn't be here if we were not very interested in new ideas from each other. If you have any questions not2muchxperience many would be happy to answer any questions you might have, just PM us. Good luck, and good shooting.


----------



## Gohon

> If you want tact go talk to plainsman.


No one would argue with that.........


----------



## Jiffy

Just for further referrence here are the Leupies ballistic aiming systems:

http://www.leupold.com/products/Info_Ballistic_Aiming_System.htm

Just to be fair, Nikon also makes one:

http://www.nikonusa.com/fileuploads/pdfs/BDC_manual.pdf

I guess I am in the camp that believes that if money is a factor Nikons are a viable option. I have both a Monarch and a Buckmaster and neither have ever let me down. The Buckmaster is on a 300 win. mag and the Monarch is on a 22-250.

I know this was not asked but I'm going to offer it as food for thought. If you want to go 1st class check these out:

http://usoptics.com/

More specifically:

http://usoptics.com/index.php?page=military

Again, these are not for the beginner. Just a little "added" information. :beer:


----------



## 280IM

not2muchxperience said:


> Which one's better? For a coyote trip this winter with .270s (I'm aware that it's a little bit more firepower than necessary) I'd like to get a buckmaster with high magnification and a mil-dot reticle but my uncle says we all need to get Leupold IVs. I don't have much money but his (my uncle's) repeated claim is "your father has more money than God", this is not so. Can someone give me a run down on which scope is a better choice in my position?


If you what the Buckmaster get it and learn,you will need a chronograph.
Don't lisen to that Vodoo BS it is not that hard to learn,just liscene to who use the Buckmasters I know you are that smart!!

I use the following scopes I have Schmidt & Benders on my hunting rifles
I have 3 Uhertls on my target rifles which are a Model 52 rim fire,a 30X338 on a per 64, and a 219 Wasp on a Winchester High Wall Falling Block

On one of my Varmint Rifles a pre 64 220 Swift I have S&B Precision Hunter with a Mil-Dot reticle. I am 59 and had no problem learning how to use it. I have shot off the bench compition and have a lot of trophys on the wall with out any super vodoo BS.

You have to walk before you can run but if you can think and read you will have no problem with a Mil-Dot reticle. We have been chronographing loads for years, we have been figuring bullet drop for years nothing new just done differently..

BTW I didn't start out with good German glass I started with Weaver and as I could afford it worked my way up.


----------



## not2muchxperience

Thanks everybody for the help, and Plainsman is right, I really don't mind suggestions and it's ok to treat me like a kid because most everybody here is a lot older than me anyway. Maybe if this site's still standing in 10 or 20 years I'll change my screename then :wink:


----------



## not2muchxperience

I read Nikon's paper's on the BDC reticle but I'm still wondering, can the owner adjust the reticle's drop compensation or does that have to be done in the factory? I saw this line "This simple, effective reticle design can be custom tailored for the trajectory of your ammunition." But by tailored I wasn't sure if they meant by the owner or manufacturer. Thanks everybody.


----------



## Horsager

Based on just what you wrote there are two possibilites.

1. Once you decide on a load you send in the scope with the load information and they calibrate where the extra dots need to be for landmark yardages (100-200-300-400, etc). I know Leupold's custom shop does this, I've got a scope from them and it works great.

2. You can vary what ammo you use and how you sight it in to make the extra dots (subtensions) work. This method would require a ton of shooting to master, but more shooting is good.

If you go with route #1 you are stuck to one load, but it's a very accurate way to go. If route #2 is your choice it'll be as accurate as you practice.


----------



## iwantabuggy

I believe on the Nikon, it is the 2nd method. Decide on a load, then learn your bullet drop in relationship to the reticle marks and memorize them. It shouldn't be too hard. As an example, hold center for out to 250 yards, then hold on the 2nd dot for say 325 yds, then move to the 3rd for out to 400, etc. You learn your trajectory in relationship with the marks in the reticle. Once you have it, it is just a matter of remembering it. I have drawn a copy of the BDC reticle using paint (computer program), and I'll fill in the distances once I have my trajectory figured out. I'd be happy to send you a copy of it once I'm done with it so you can see what I have done. I hope to have it all done in the next few weeks.


----------



## Horsager

If Nikon has the subtension values listed on their website (like Leupold does) then it's just a matter of chronographing your rifle, running a ballistics program and jotting down the answers. Then of course you need some practical testing of the theoretics.


----------



## iwantabuggy

Subtentions are in the catalog. I didn't see them in the owners manual.


----------



## iwantabuggy

All right! I got the 22-250 chrono'd on the 50 gr v-max moly being pushed by 38.0 gr of Varget at 3915 fps, calculated the trajectory, and worked up a cheat sheet for the BDC reticle on my Buckmaster. Here are the aim points.










Now all I have to do is figure out how to shrink it down and attach it to the gun so that I can still read it. With the marks as shown I should never be off by more than 2-3 inches (or so) at the ranges listed, probably less as I have it calculated (if I do my part).

When a gun doesn't shoot well, more often than not it is the NUT behind the BOLT. Ha, Ha.


----------



## iwantabuggy

Used my Nikon Buckmaster 6-18x40SF wBDC on my 22-250 to shoot a yote yesterday. I missed him at 406 yards (ranged him first with my ELITE 1500 range finder, but forgot to compensate for the extreme down hill). I shot just over him. He ran uphill until he was about even or just a little lower than me when he stopped again. I estimated the new aimpoint and using the center of the 2nd circle to aim, I shot again. I drilled him.  Hit him with the rangefinder again, and it said 466 yards.   The cheatsheet works! That was my first field test where I needed it. All of my previous field shots were less than 300 yards.


----------



## beartooth

Just got another buckmaster 6-18x40mm SF BDC and it is awesome. Have a 4.5-14x40mm buckmaster SF BDC on my Kimber the two 6-18's or on a Ruger tagret gray 22-250 and I just put the other on my 300WBY mag. Will show the end of this week the results at the range. :sniper:


----------



## woodguru

Remington 7400 said:


> Both Leupold and Nikon make very good optics. Leupold VX-II and Nikon Buckmasters are fine lower-mid priced scopes. Both will get the job done 99% of the time, if you have the money and feel the need the Nikon Monarch and higher grade Leupolds are very nice, but not necessary for coyote hunting.
> 
> If you are looking to keep the cost down a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42 with B-Plex can be had for somewhere around $300.00 or less if you shop around. That's a pretty nice scope for the money.
> 
> Personally I seldom find the need for more magnification than 9X, and honestly believe that you could take a fixed power 6x40 and hunt anywhere in the world with the exception of dangerous game without problem.


Hey. if you like the Burris scopes you should check these out.

The Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x is made by Pentax, Pentax sells it under the model name Pioneer 4.5-14x for a list of $428, it can be had for $229 at Fox Optics and it is a heck of a scope for the money. It also has a very cool range finding reticle.

I've bought about 12 or 14 scopes in the last few weeks, here's a list just so you can get an idea of my preferences
3 Nikon Buckmasters 6-18x SF
3 Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x SF
4 Pentax Pioneer 4.5-14x
2 Pentax 4-12x Gameseeker
1 Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x (traded back for a Pentax Pioneer)
1 Elite 4200 6-24x
1 Elite 4200 8-32x

By the way, I am in deep doggy doo doo and may have a few rifles to sell to help the situation, I had to say I just wanted to try some things out and then narrow it down to a couple of .22's, a couple HMR's, and the HM2. I got a 504 .22, 504-T .22, 504-T HMR, 504 HM2, 3 597 HB .22's, 3 Volquartsen customs, 2 custom Ruger 77/17's, 597 HB HMR, anchutz 1517 MPR, and a Savage 93 HB w/thumbhole stock, maybe some others I can't think of. All nice stuff, can't keep them all.


----------



## iwantabuggy

woodguru said:


> Remington 7400 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Both Leupold and Nikon make very good optics. Leupold VX-II and Nikon Buckmasters are fine lower-mid priced scopes. Both will get the job done 99% of the time, if you have the money and feel the need the Nikon Monarch and higher grade Leupolds are very nice, but not necessary for coyote hunting.
> 
> If you are looking to keep the cost down a Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x42 with B-Plex can be had for somewhere around $300.00 or less if you shop around. That's a pretty nice scope for the money.
> 
> Personally I seldom find the need for more magnification than 9X, and honestly believe that you could take a fixed power 6x40 and hunt anywhere in the world with the exception of dangerous game without problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey. if you like the Burris scopes you should check these out.
> 
> The Burris Fullfield II 4.5-14x is made by Pentax, Pentax sells it under the model name Pioneer 4.5-14x for a list of $428, it can be had for $229 at Fox Optics and it is a heck of a scope for the money. It also has a very cool range finding reticle.
> 
> I've bought about 12 or 14 scopes in the last few weeks, here's a list just so you can get an idea of my preferences
> 3 Nikon Buckmasters 6-18x SF
> 3 Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x SF
> 4 Pentax Pioneer 4.5-14x
> 2 Pentax 4-12x Gameseeker
> 1 Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x (traded back for a Pentax Pioneer)
> 1 Elite 4200 6-24x
> 1 Elite 4200 8-32x
> 
> By the way, I am in deep doggy doo doo and may have a few rifles to sell to help the situation, I had to say I just wanted to try some things out and then narrow it down to a couple of .22's, a couple HMR's, and the HM2. I got a 504 .22, 504-T .22, 504-T HMR, 504 HM2, 3 597 HB .22's, 3 Volquartsen customs, 2 custom Ruger 77/17's, 597 HB HMR, anchutz 1517 MPR, and a Savage 93 HB w/thumbhole stock, maybe some others I can't think of. All nice stuff, can't keep them all.
Click to expand...

Sounds like SPAM to me. Next you are going to tell everyone you have to unload the stuff and you'll try to sell it here. I am normally very welcoming to new comers, but this smells bad to me.

Woody. If you are legit, you'll need to prove it to me. Just in case you are, welcome to the forum.

Anyone else read that between the lines?


----------



## woodguru

There's no between the lines here, I did nothing but name the place I've been getting great prices on scopes, I certainly don't get anything from a recommendation like that and this was focused to one person who indicated he likes Burris.

If you like Burris Fullfields and agree that it's a great deal to get a scope that costs about $500 for $229 you are on your own as to finding where to get one. Mine are all on rifles I got over the last three or four weeks. I have 10 rifles and a pistol going through the 10 day waiting period that I can pick up the 16th from my dealer.

I'm not trying to sell a thing, just pointing out the deals I've found, you
have to admit there aren't that many guys who can make recommendations on products based on the numbers of things I personally have. I also have a lot of the things guys specifically ask about.
You will notice I have nothing to say about the rifles like CZ and Marlin that I've never had, if I haven't had the item in question I don't have anything to say about it and certainly nothing negative.

I bought 15 different HMR bullet types so I could try them all in my rifles, and 35 different .22 types. This costs money and takes time to try things as thoroughly as I do, I enjoy sharing what I find such as the .22 shells that shoot well in everything. I now have 7 or 8 high quality .22's and there are a few cartridges that universally shoot well in everything. I spent about $400 buying an array of them to figure this out.

Part of this is inspired by the plethora of guys that don't know Dick who claim to be his best friend. Questions or statements to the effect that "all HMR bullets are the same because they are made by the same manufacturer" need some clarity. Each manufacturer who contracts with CCI to make their cartridges go through a developement stage with the manufacturer, they use different specs on minute things that can be changed. I'll address this in another thread, "Who really knows Dick", I don't mean to tie this guy's up.

Anyway, your suggestion that I'm trying to sell something is ludicrous as I'm just trying to respond to inquiries that I have reason to know due to firsthand experience. I know that's hard to imagine, but try :lol: :beer:

I buy and sell things on ebay, primarily watches, guns are my hobby.


----------



## woodguru

iwantabuggy said:


> Used my Nikon Buckmaster 6-18x40SF wBDC on my 22-250 to shoot a yote yesterday. I missed him at 406 yards (ranged him first with my ELITE 1500 range finder, but forgot to compensate for the extreme down hill). I shot just over him. He ran uphill until he was about even or just a little lower than me when he stopped again. I estimated the new aimpoint and using the center of the 2nd circle to aim, I shot again. I drilled him.  Hit him with the rangefinder again, and it said 466 yards.   The cheatsheet works! That was my first field test where I needed it. All of my previous field shots were less than 300 yards.


Leupold has a rangefinder out that supposedly compensates for angles with a built in inclinometer that calculates for the appropriate uphill/downhill trajectory. I did a little bit of inquiring into how it works but couldn't find much out, so what the heck, I was in the market for a rangefinder so I ordered one. It's the RX-II. I was wondering how it calculates for different bullets and couldn't find anything out first but I guess I'll see when I get it.

No this is not spamming, I'm not trying to sell you anything :lol:

Catching your post and the incline problem caught my attention as pertains to how useful the compensation feature could be. It gives a readout of how many inches to hold under or over. :beer:


----------



## Jiffy

http://www.ustacticalsupply.com/index.a ... ProdID=216

If you have the time........


----------



## iwantabuggy

My RF has an inclinometer built into it.... Only to use it the way it is set up requires me to change my entire shooting style. So.....I've come up with a way to use it and not change my style. On the shot where I missed, I just didn't check it b/c I thought the angle would be small enough that the change in bullet drop would be insignificant. I was wrong.....

It wasn't the first time I was wrong, and I am sure it won't be the last. In my defense, though. That was my first time out in the field with this RF.

I am going to start a new thread on shooting at extreme incline/decline.

P. S. Woody- hope I didn't offend you. Your posts on the scopes seemed soooooo far out there and with you being new, I just wondered if you weren't going to try to unload some stolen merchandise or something. Apparently not, and you don't seem to be offended either, so WELCOME to the forum.


----------



## woodguru

Thanks, I was just checking into the RXII I ordered and it turns out that it isn't very comprehensive with the trajectory of an HMR, I figured the basic RX1 will do me just fine so I switched. The only drop critical range that dramatically changes is from about 200 to 275 and if I know the range exactly I can dope the drop in my head, same for incline shooting. The effective range is short enough it isn't like needing to know precise distance from 250 to 500 or more. Different terrain makes it hard for most to eyeball distances within an acceptable margin.

Years ago (25) I dropped a buck with a .243 across a canyon I thought looked like a 350 yard shot, I was startled when the shot hit several feet under it but I compensated accordingly and made a good vital area hit. It turns out that it was about a 575 yard shot and I never really shoot anything beyond about 450. I did a lot of ground squirrel shooting with the same Sako Varminter .243 out to about 400 yards so I was very comfortable with it out to there. I've always liked to stick with comfortable ranges that allow drop in their tracks shot placement.

There aren't many people who can gauge distance across the empty space of a canyon, if the animal is bigger than you think you are way off.

Thanks again for the welcome, when I get the time I'll write my recent story about the guy who called me to come shoot some rabid attack ground squirrels. It's the single most funny thing I've encountered in the last ten years. :beer:


----------



## weasle414

Jiffy said:


> Sure thing buckwheat..... :lol:


My dad said that to someone once and he got called a racist...

One more vote for the Nikon, btw.


----------



## Ac_EsS

Well I am with jiffy the Leopold by far the finest scope and easiest to learn how to shoot. put it this way I taught an 18 yr old marine in a couple of hrs in 2 days and he had a pretty good idea how to shoot steel target up too 600 yards. it took me a week of classes and a week of straight shooting at Carlos Hathcock range which is a 1000 yr range and I could hit a precision target at 1000yrds. It's pretty obvious that it's an excellent scope if it does not take that long to learn how to manipulate it and the Marine Corps use it for their DMR. Trust me with some time spent at a range and someone to help teach you. You will be able to plink plenty of targets. this is a a book with a lot of info in it. try looking for a DMR trainign manual online your probally going to have to purchase it


----------



## Jiffy

Ac EsS,

Your BZO is 200 yards. You are shooting M118LR rounds at 2600 fps mv (which I assume is what your DMR is at). The wind is calm. The target is level and at 600 yards. What dope do you put on your rifle?

Humor me here........... 8)


----------



## Jiffy

I'm pretty sure the Corps still uses meters in lue of yards. It really makes me wonder. Attention to detail..........


----------



## Jiffy

Hello!!! McFly!!!!


----------



## iwantabuggy

Jiffy said:


> Hello!!! McFly!!!!


He probably put you on ignore, which is what I am going to do.


----------



## Jiffy

iwantabuggy said:


> Jiffy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello!!! McFly!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> He probably put you on ignore, which is what I am going to do.
Click to expand...

We have now just met Invectors cousin from Idaho...... :lol:


----------



## Ac_EsS

Jiffy,
(All math is being done by the spotter)
Well since you already gave me the distance in yards (not need to do the range estimate formula, the mill hold of the target) I will just convert it into meters
Convert yards to meters
First off 600 yard x .914 to get the meters will equal 548.4 Meters from your target.
no need for the MOA (minute of angle) formula since target is level.
thus the spotter tells me to hold 3 mils center mass. once fired it should put the round in the targets stearnum. 
then you hold for a fallow on shot just incase.


----------



## Jiffy

You're going to be about 1 mil low if you do that. About 18" off the mark. Hold 4 mils or put 14 MOA on your rifle. The later is prefered if you are given the time.

Holding center mass you will hit your target in the nuts or miss with that shot. The miss part is bad but I'm not against shooting badguys in the nuts.


----------

