# Short or long?



## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

I was looking at a rifle today and came apon this thought, does a person go short or long barrel? I was looking at .243's and they were really short...same with a few other smaller cal guns I picked up. They did not feel good on the arm like the 2 guns I have already being longer barrels. One being a 45" over all (24" barrel) and the other being around 42" over all (22" for the barrel).

Also when shot, how does the gun react...ie jump or streight back? (looking for a gun with as little jump in it as possible.)


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

What will the rifle be used for? I just got a Kimber Montana W/22" pipe, it has quite a bit more snap than I expected, but it's very light as well. A standard remington 700 will have a 22" bbl, as will an A-Bolt, Ruger 77, and a Tikka. Remington model 7's will have an 18.5" (blued) or 20" (stainless), and many of the compact/youth/ultralight models will have shorter 20" barrels. I'm guessing buy your comment of looking for as little jump as possible you're going to have a kid shooting it. I think a Remington 700 ADL youth is a good choice in that situation. It's a bit heavier than a model 7, but that weight soaks up recoil too.

:strapped:


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

Some things to think about with reguards to barrle length. Slower bullet speed, gun will likely have a more between your hands ballance point unlike the slightly muzzel heavy of longer barreled guns, more noise, the shorter barrel will likely be quicker to point and shoot because the package will be lighter in weight. I personnaly think a short barrel gun should be shooting something of large size like 358, 444, 45-70, 356, something like this. To me a short barreled 243 is makeing a marginal gun even more disadvantaged. Just my way of thinking. The larger bore guns don't seem to be much velosity loss or real louder, 243,7-08, 308 ect seem to be louder and lose speed badly.


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

This gun will be used for close range deer and some target shooting. The reason I asked again is the fact the guns I looked at were all small and did not feel like a gun at all but more like and felt like a .22. We had a .222 at one time and that thing was a POS for shooting...the barrel would jump up when fired insted of back like other guns we have or shot. This jump, even though not much push form the cal, was undesireable for us to keep. I am now looking at a smaller cal again and want to stay away form the jumping part.

I also had a shor barrel .308 at one time. I did like the gun due to the light weight and the butt section fit nicely, we sold it due to a jamming issue. Now I have a light weight Tikka and love the thing, but even then the .243's we were looking at were shorter. :-?


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

The September issue of Shooting Times has a article on this very issue concerning short tube rifles. The article covers the Ruger model 77 Mark II Frontier and Compact rifles with a 16.5 inch barrel. Pretty much dispels a lot of misconceptions about short barrel rifles, especially ballistics and accuracy.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Hey Invector,

I would echo Whelen's advice and chose a bigger bullet for close range hunting, but anything will kill a deer so let's not argue about how dead is dead. If you can do it with an arrow, an appropriate bullet isn't a big mystery. Actually a combination close range deer gun and target rifle is a rather odd animal, but stuff like that keeps it interesting.

I love short barrels, but never felt the need to be shorter than 22" except on my xp-100/contender barrels. Using a slightly faster powder will usually make up for some velocity lost in barrel lenght, but generally speaking they will still be slower.

I LOVE the .243. Have several, but sure would suggest a .25 for deer hunting. I like the .243 for REALLY FAR coyotes best, but just my opinion. Lots of guys have killed elk with a .243 so it will kill deer. But in my personal experience a .25 kills much better than .014" of bullet dia. would indicate.

But to your original question? Don't have to listen to us. You can go to Dan Lilja's website. He has VERY detailed info on why and how a shorter barrel has greater accuracy potential over a longer barrel. He gets very in-depth, like how much barrel dia. to add per inch of added length to keep stiffness comparable, etc., but in reality probably doesn't mean squat in the type of rifle and conditions you'll be dealing with, but it should answer your question.

Why don't you like the rifle to jump? I prefer that over punching my shoulder (except when I don't get to see the prairie dog POP!) I think you'll find anything useful at longer ranges will jump up from the bench, unless you want to mess with some type of compensator or break, but YUCK! to that as far as I'm concerned. Maybe some of the experts here will discuss drop at heel facts and how it relates to muzzle rise, but if you're talking factory rifles, which I believe you are, it's pretty much a moot point as they're all pretty similar.

Too much of my opinion in one place so I'm outa here, but don't forget to let me know your recoil formula.


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

The reason for looking at a gun that does not jump is due to who will be shooting it. I know if I told you that I know someone who did not like a .222 due to the jumping it did when fired. This jumping bothers him more then the recoil its self. He would be my father and he does not do well with jumping guns due to the jaring of it. He likes my 25-06 but it has far too much recoil for him. So we are looking at a 243 but could only find short guns. Like very short, the only 22" we found was a 243wssm wich he did not like how it or any of the other 243s felt. I asked the question more for a responce if there are any .243's .243wssm that are a bit longer of a gun or are they all going to be short barreled guns. :beer:


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Horsager said:


> I'm guessing buy your comment of looking for as little jump as possible you're going to have a kid shooting it.
> 
> :strapped:


Actually my father will be shooting the gun but he acts like a kid sometimes. He has several bad spots in his upper body and neck that prevent him from doing any amount of shooting without being laid up in bed or the chair with every amount of ice and heat on his back an neck. He has shot my 25-06 and likes it due to the fact it don't jump...but it recoils far too much for him to shoot it more then a few times. I figure a .243 or a .243wssm would be a perfect match (looking more at the 243 then the 243wssm), but only if there is little jump on the recoil. To be more specific the jump bothers the disks in his neck. He has what they think is 3-4 damaged disks. They won't do the surgery yet on him due to several factors but getting to the specialist to get the ball rolling. So they are encouraging him to do what he wants not since when they do the surgery he will be down for a good amount of time. If things go well, we will only miss a bit of hunting and a bit of fishing. So I have been looking the past several months for a gun and cal that he can shoot for deer and that when I get it, I can use it, want it, and will be worth me keeping around. So I figure with the numbers I have seen a 243 or a 243wssm would be the way to go. I have a .300 win mag that I use to carry for deer and every one I have shot with it he just cannot believe how it performs. Well I have turned the 300 into a long range gun and now have a 25-06 for when I'm walking though cover. I feel the 243 is a good gun and has many choices of bullets and ammo for it. Plus that cal has good speed and more then enough energy to kill a deer at 200 yards. Now you know the rest of the story. With deer season coming up I have been doing a lot of looking and talking so you've probably have seen me on here time and time again asking different questions. Well it does not hurt to be informed. Thanks for the info guys, most of it helped.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I don't know if you would consider it a viable option for the deer hunting, but you can get a regular .243 Win with a 24"-26" heavy barrel from most manufacturers. That is the only way I can think of, short of a muzzle break, to reduce the felt recoil. I never thought I would say this, but due to the circumstances you may want to look into the .22's, if legal in your area. Obviously the industry considers that an option now or Nosler wouldn't make 60gr Partitions.

Most important thing is for your dad to get well SOON! I hope there are MANY new rifles in both your futures.


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

You may want to check out a Ruger No. 1 in 243. My brother has one and it is a good shooter with barely noticable recoil. 26" barrel but is shorter than you would think due to the falling block action.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

Invector, is the overall weight of the rifle an issue? Does your dad have the handicapped sticker that allows him to shoot from the vehicle? If so, a heavy barrel may be the way to go as Csquared already mentioned. Another option would be a Ruger 77 in 25-06 with lighter 100gn bullets. I say the Ruger in particular because the 25-06 Ruger comes with a 24" "magnum taper" barrel, which isn't really a true heavy barrel, but it's a bit heavier than the rest of the factory 25-06 offerings, and the lighter 100gn bullets should keep the recoil down.


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## Albertahunter (Oct 25, 2005)

the lighter the rifle, the harder it will kick, but how you fit the gun is more important.


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Horsager said:


> Invector, is the overall weight of the rifle an issue? Does your dad have the handicapped sticker that allows him to shoot from the vehicle? If so, a heavy barrel may be the way to go as Csquared already mentioned. Another option would be a Ruger 77 in 25-06 with lighter 100gn bullets. I say the Ruger in particular because the 25-06 Ruger comes with a 24" "magnum taper" barrel, which isn't really a true heavy barrel, but it's a bit heavier than the rest of the factory 25-06 offerings, and the lighter 100gn bullets should keep the recoil down.


No he is not handicapped. And I dont think after he goes under the knife (if it gets to that) would apply for one. We still go out hunting for ducks and upland birds where he shoots a 1187 Rem with a recoil pad on and he can manage for most of the day. But he right now cannot shoot his 10 gage.

As far as barrel weight and size, it would all be up to him. He just dont want any jump in the recoil. We had a .222 that he carried for a few years now but every shot he had he did alot of flinching if he did shoot. The gun just jumed too much for him. And I know who would say a .222 not having any recoil did jump considreably. This gun though had some weight to it and had a 22" barrel on it. So we are not ruling out getting a short barreled gun just dont want it to jump is all. It was the jumping up that made the gun a POS, hard to get back on an animal if you have to bring the gun back down form it recoiling up.

And like I posted before he shot my 25-06 that I have (Tikka T3 synthetic) but I went with a light weight gun so the recoil is a bit more then a hevier gun, this is true, but the gun still has little recoil to it. He did not like it. His comment was he could shoot it but just a few times before he would be done for the day. So you could say I have my work cut out for me. But form the looks of it the gun might half to be orderd since we can only find small guns that dont fit him.

Albertahunter, you are 100% on how the gun fits is more important. thats the biggest thing we are looking at right now. Hopefully the next few weekends we can find one that fits him. 
:beer:


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

After reading to this post I would recomend the .44 deerfield carbine made by ruger. Its like a 10/22 only chambered in .44 mag and I hear the recoil is nothing to deal with!! No long shots but Ill bet he will like it!!?


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