# Long Range Hunting



## Plainsman

How many of you have noticed that over the last ten years manufacturers have begin producing hunting caliber rifles with heavy target barrels. We also see more laser range finders in use in the field. More bipods being carried on rifles by varmint and deer hunters. In years past people frowned on shooting deer at 500 yards, but as of late an entire segment of our hunting brothers have taken on the sport of long range hunting. Many are shooting huge custom rifles (with huge price tags) and taking deer beyond 1000 yards. A group in Pennsylvania has a one mile club. No it has nothing to do with airplanes or friendly ladies.

How many of you are confident that you could shoot a deer at 500 yards if you knew the range. I am willing to bet many more of you can do it than think. Excuse me if I am telling you something you already know, but for those who do not here goes. If you own a 3X9 variable scope with a duplex crosshair you already have a serviceable range finder that will work like stadia line range finders. These range finders work acceptably well out to 500 yards. Deer as they grow older and larger put on more length, width, weight, but do not change as much in their measurement from brisket to back. In an adult male whitetail this distance is about 18 inches. Wrap your power adjustment right with a piece of white tape. Next take an 18 inch piece of white material (tag board etc.) and place on a tall stake. Stake it in the ground and measure back about 200 yards. Now, using the vertical points on you duplex crosshair put the upper point on the top of the tag board piece. Then, adjust the power ring until the lower duplex comes into contact with the lower edge of the tag board. As you adjust your power up there will be less space between the vertical duplex points. So, now mark with a felt tip pen a 2 (for 200 yards) on the tape of your power ring. Now, move back to 300 yards and repeat the process. Repeat the process to 500 yards and when in the field you should be able to accurately judge a deer's distance by placing the top duplex on his back and adjusting your power ring until the lower duplex touches his brisket area. Now simply read the range on your power ring.

You can also use your lower duplex as an aim point to 500 yards without any worry about what your holdover is.


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## Sasha and Abby

Sorry to disagree... it is a bit more complex than figuring out the range of the deer. You then must factor in the bullet's trajectory and drift (with respect to wind).

To ethically be able to HUMANELY kill a deer out to 500 yards takes a lot of practice. I shoot hi power at least once a week, and I will not shoot over 400 yards unless EVERYTHING is just right. This means the right gun, rest, no wind, known range and complete knowledge of the ballistics of what I am shooting.

It shows a complete lack of respect for the game, to take a shot where you do not know exactly where the bullet is going to hit. There is a huge difference in shooting at a target at 500 yards, and shooting a living animal at the same distance. You owe your quarry more respect.

Most people can hit an 18" target at 500 yards. But can they tell you exactly where they will hit it...??? 
:sniper:

BTW... That is the best way to use your scope as a rangefinder. :wink: 
If you would like to try, make sure you practice - a lot. :sniper:


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## Bobm

Plainsman you just can't win with this crowd. Hey Trixie and bubba or whatever, I hit a flying goose at about 250 yards with a 70 Lb compound bow, poor bugger was about 20 geese behind the one I was aiming at  , the golden BB theory never fails.
Ok boys pile on I love the attention :lol:


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## huntin1

Sasha and Abby said:


> Most people can hit an 18" target at 500 yards. But can they tell you exactly where they will hit it...???
> :sniper:


Yes, within an inch or two, and so should you IF you shoot as much as you say you do. Unless of course you do all of your shooting at 100 yards and nothing farther.  :sniper:

:beer:

huntin1


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## Plainsman

Sasha and Abby

Isn't stating that you should know where you are going to hit the obvious. Otherwise what is the point in shooting. I doubt if there is a hunter out there that enjoys seeing an animal suffer. It's horrible if there is. My best friend that I hunt with is a swat sniper. We have a farmer that raises pumpkins for farmers market. Many of them get a little beat up and he gives us many, sometimes near a hundred at a time. They make great target practice, and we practice often to 1000 yards. We seldom practice under 600 yards because a 10 inch pumpkin at five hundred yards isn't much of a challenge. I don't keep track of how many shells I shoot in each rifle like some people do, but one year I purchased 5000 primers in September or October (I don't remember) and ran out in early May I believe. I have a retractable ballistic chart attached to my scope just in front of the target turret, and a level attached to the scope just behind the turret. I also use an electronic anemometer for windage adjustments. Wind drift is also on my retractable ballistic chart for 100 to 1200 yards for 10 mph wind at 90 angle. Calculating other speeds and angle is a very simple task. There is a published wind chart using natural vegetation and such that can also be used to get a practical wind speed. You need to be able to use this technique because wind speed out to a 100 yards can be much different at several points as compared to where you take the shot from.

To use your variable scope for shooting long range works well with one exception, you must lower your power for the longer distances. Years ago I sighted in my 300 Winchester mag 3inches high at 100 yards. This put it on at 300 yards. When I used my lower duplex as a sight point on 9 power my bullet struck dead on at 400 yards. When I lowered my power to 6 and used the duplex I hit dead on at 500 yards. Four power gave me 600 yards. I use a black felt tip to mark my scope power adjustment ring for yardage estimations, and a red felt tip to mark the scope for aiming to 600 yards. No need to know drop, only windage, and personally I would not shoot if wind exceeded 10 mph or was gusty. This type of hunting isn't for everyone, but if you are a very methodical person, like challenging yourself it's fun. I use my scope to judge distance on an 18 inch target, not to estimate where I am going to hit. If you are going to shoot to 500 yards you should be able to put your shot into a six inch circle. The rifle could be off by three four inches, and if you are off the same that could be six to eight inches. I don't want to hit a deer in the periphery I want to shoot him through both shoulders and the lungs. I know I waste some meat, but I want them down right now. Good shooting.

Also, go to longrangehunter.com and check it out. There is a large number of people on the site, and many shoot deer to 1500 yards. They started the site because so few people understand the capabilities of their equipment but they certainly have opinions. They were tired of dealing with the ignorant and decided they needed a site of their own. I think one of the guys, I don't remember his handle or caliber that he used, but he set a new record at something between 1500 and 2000 yards. These guys aren't armatures.


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## Brad Anderson

PLainsman, I respect your obvious knowledge of the topic. But the deer hunting I normally do, involves deer which are running. It is a rare day I actually shoot at one standing still.

If there was an occasion where I had a chance at one standing still, all of your tricks would certainly come in handy.

Keep posting your tricks and ideas, most of us are all ears.


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## huntin1

Brad,

Careful, some people think shooting at running deer is unethical too and should never be done. (not me) 
When you get into long range hunting you will find that the shots you take are on stationary deer. At 500 yards and above deer often don't know you are there, if they do know you are there they just watch you and wonder what you are doing. At least until you reach out and say hello. :sniper:

Hey Plainsman, I think this fall I should bring that 6" metal swinger along, we can set that up across the river at about 1000 and see who can whack it the most.

huntin1


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## Brad Anderson

HUntin 1, I know that SOME people won't shoot at a running deer, but that is the way I've grown up hunting them.

I feel more confident with a "close" (200 yards or less) running shot, than a long range stationary shot. That is just me though.

I would sure like to become proficient at long shots. The problem is that I rarely draw a buck tag. So I practice with my rifle very rarely.

I need a good coach also.


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## bchunter

I have to agree with plainsman shooting 500yds isn't very hard on calm days.I have a 4.5-14 on my 338 zero'd at 300yds and I use the hole duplex above where I want to hit at five hundred and I shoot a 4in group all you need to do is practice I found soft ball size oranges on dusty bank's worked good to start


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## Bobm

Tisk Tisk, all this unethical long range fruit and vegetable shooting. Do you cruel bastards realize you could be off a little and make a crippling stem shot. I want you to just imagine how you would feel if you had your stems shot off, ouch!!! :lol: I have found mine to be very handy over the years, although not as useful as it was in my younger days :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I sure would miss it still.


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## Plainsman

Bobm

Ya, a head shot sure would be more humane.

Brad Anderson

I think running deer shots are how all of us grew up hunting in North Dakota. That is how hunt1 and I hunted for many years. Only in the past ten have we gone to long range hunting. Part of it was necessity, my knees are bad, and I just can't get out and walk like I did when I would jump and shoot bucks. The other reasons for our change was that we just wanted to do something different. I shoot deer five to forty yards with a bow, 20 to 100 with a 44 mag, and likewise with a muzzleloader. For many years I never used the same caliber or bullet type. Not because I didn't like my 30-06, or 270, or 243, or 45-70 etc etc I just liked trying something different. Now hunt1, longshot, and I sit on a hill with three rifles each on bipods, hot coffee, a big sack of cookies, and watch deer and hunters. It's enjoyable watching through the binocs as everyone walks past a smart old buck that we have watched bed down. We have watched fawns swim the river to avoid hunters, and coyotes chase fox. When I was young I didn't have the patience to sit, but I have found that it is entertaining to watch what happens when people and animals are oblivious to your presence. Try it for one season, I think it will change the way you hunt. Not that it will make you sit next year, but it may change how you approach a valley, or clump of trees. Over the years I have learned as much watching people do things wrong as I have watching them do things right and sitting watching other hunters is enlightening.

For those of you interested in reloading, wildcat cartridges and such check out:
http://scripts.xtremeaccuracy.com/


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## sdeprie

Plainsman, just color me green. As I'm sure you've read of my experiences, mostly I hunt in flooded river bottoms. Not a lot of sight seeing there, unless you're interested in watching crayfish, water snakes and spiders. An occassional beaver, etc. I try to get up high with a tree stand (now I'll probably be unethical for using that), but 60 yards is about all I can see. But, you'll still see me out there again next fall, bugs and all. Have to wear barn boots to keep my feet half-way dry, and sometimes that isn't enough. Can't handle hip waders for 2 miles through bogs. But I'll be there anyway.
:beer:


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## bchunter

now now bobm the fruit and vegies i'm shootin have already been picked and there stems torn off i'm just putin them out of there missery.poor little stemless things gota feel sory for them.Now if they were still atached to the plant that would be just MEAN and very unethical


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## Brad Anderson

Plainsman, you hit er' right on the head. Us young ND boys aren't the most patient.

I love to walk. Wether it is for pheasants, deer, coyotes etc etc. I have NEVER used a tree stand, but see how they would be nice in certain situations.

Plus, where I deer hunt, spot and stalk seems to get the job done.


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## Plainsman

Kind of busy tonight, but here are some of my favorite sites to have some fun with. The neconos has a great simulator for practicing with a mil dot scope. Enjoy.

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/ballistics/calculations.html
http://scripts.xtremeaccuracy.com/
http://www.longrangehunting.com/
http://www.benchrest.com/sst/taylor.html
http://www.accuratereloading.com/
http://www.predatormastersforums.com/
http://www.snipercountry.com/
http://www.neconos.com/
http://www.snipershide.com/
http://www.coyotegods.com/


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## Brad Anderson

sweeetness


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## huntin1

Here's a couple more:

http://www.nennstiel-ruprecht.de/bullfly/

http://www.wildcatshooting.com/forum/

http://artactical.com/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s= ... =945601916

http://www.long-range.com/forums/index.php?

http://www.tnugent.com/index.shtml

I know the Nuge site ain't about long range stuff but I couldn't resist.  

:beer:

huntin1


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## Plainsman

Since I mentioned retractable ballistics charts, and scope levels to Sasha and Abby I thought maybe people would like to see them. The retractable ballistic chart is made by Leupold, and you will have to drop about $40 for one. There is more room than you need for ballistic and wind drift data beyond 1000 yards. The level is more important than you think. A five degree cant will put you off approximately 4 feet at 1000 yards. They also will run you about $40, but are easily made at home, and much cheaper. Start at Wall * Mart and buy Simmons medium rings ( Weaver style)(about $6) then go to hardware and by a small torpedo level (about $3) which will have two small levels and one large one within it's frame. Take these home, cut the foot off and using a rat tale file cut a round trench crosswise through the ring base. Next use a side cutter to cut apart the plastic torpedo level and retrieve to three small spirit levels. I used JB Weld epoxy to glue a small spirit level into the ring foot. For nine dollars you have two perfectly good scope levels. My directions perhaps leave something to be desired so here is a picture of the setup.


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## Sasha and Abby

That retractable chart is pretty cool... :beer:


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## Bobm

Plainsman your making me nervous. I getting interested in this nonsense and it looks expensive. :lol: I think I would like to duplicate the whole thing on a smaller scale so I could shoot 22 lr at say up to 500 yards just for the fun of it.


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## Plainsman

Thanks Sasha and Abby. I should also mention that you should put your gun in a vice and level it. Then attach the scope and level it before and after tightening. To assure the bore and scope are aligned perfectly take it to the range and hang a plumb line in front of your target. The target should be at least three feet high. Put a dot at the bottom of the paper under the plumb line and one 36 inches up. From 100 yards shoot at the lower dot with your scope set for 100 yards, next adjust your scope up 36 inches and shoot at the lower dot again from 100 yards. The second shot may vary ¼ or so vertically but do not accept horizontal shift. This will assure two things. That your scope elevation is adjusting correctly, and that the bore and scope are in the same vertical plane.


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## Plainsman

Bob

Not 500, but you would be surprised to see what a good 22 will do at 300. Also, it isn't that expensive. Well, not when I do most of my own gunsmithing anyway. The rifle is a standard Remington Sendero, 300 Winchester Mag. The scope, a Sightron 4X16 tactical with mil dot this month is $339 at midwayusa.com. The bipod is $100 (Swivel model so easily levels on side hills ). The retractable ballistic chart is $40 and like I mentioned in the other post the home made level will run you under $5. I shoot Richardson's grounds squirrels at 100 yards with ease, with my custom Ruger 10/22 with mostly Volquartzen parts. It shoots under ½ inch at 50 yards.


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## Plainsman

Oh, Bob, the scope I have on my 22 is a $80 BSA 4X16 mil dot lit reticle.


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## huntin1

If any of you are interested in the level Plainsman is talking about here's a better pic, sorry plainsman yours is just a wee bit fuzzy.  










huntin1


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## Plainsman

sdeprie

Well for an old prairie boy your hunting sounds kind of exotic. The explorer in all of us makes us want to hunt different animals, and different habitats. I like the mountains, the desserts, and the way you describe North Carolina sounds like a lot of fun to me. The way you describe conditions on the way to your deer stand I could only make it if I could turn back the clock ten years. I have heard many good things about the Winchester 348 like you shoot. Someday I will have to drop the hammer on one of those. Later.


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## Plainsman

Hunt1

Ya, I know. I was trying to show the ballistic chart also, and I was to lazy to take another picture.


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## Bobm

I have a ruger 10/22 I purchased in about 1967 it has a full length Mannlicher stock I've killed a lot of rabbits at 100 yards and a lot more at about 30-40 but I haven't shot it for a long long time my kids have a couple of time. I just clean once or twice a year and put it back in the gun safe, Maybe I'll get it out and play with it when I get done remodeling my house. I bought a Contender pistol in 30-30win and thats been what I've been carrying deer hunting the last few years haven't shot a deer with it yet, could of, just didn't see a big enough buck, although I almost shot one last season then decided to pass. Its really pretty accurate at 100 yards off sand bags its under 1 1/2 inches with factory ammo and I think it could do better with someone else shooting it. I plan to get a 22 barrel for it this year and practice with it and hopefully get the trigger pull down a little better. It has a 2-7 scope on it. Its handy in a tree stand. I'm planning to sell a couple guns and get a digital body for my cannon camera I see alot of stuff deer coyotes ect. that I don't want to shoot but would love to photograph which is why I bought the contender in the first place. The camera and a rifle were a bit much in a little chain on tree stand.


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## huntin1

Plainsman said:


> Hunt1
> 
> Ya, I know. I was trying to show the ballistic chart also, and I was to lazy to take another picture.


Age will do that to ya. :rollin:

Did you get those pic's I sent you at work?

huntin1


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## Plainsman

Hunt1

Yes, I did. Nice fawn pics. I'll send you a picture later of the twins I took last week. I noticed another problem with my picture of the level. I reduced my file size to 17.5 kb I thought it would come up faster, but didn't realize I had degraded it so much. You must have sent those fawn pictures full file size, they really looked nice.


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