# New Coyote Slayer



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Well OK so it is not new, but it is mine again.

Last winter I sold one of my most prized handguns, and yesterday had the good fortune to be able to buy it back. We generally don't get to rectify our mistakes like this, so I am feeling quite fortunate today.

The Handgun in question is a SS T/C Contender Frame with Pachmayr Grip & Forend. The barrel started life as a T/C Super 14 .30 Herrett (with the old style 6 land & groove rifling with a 1 in 14" twist). I had sent it to SSK Industries to have it rechambered to the .30-30 Ackley Improved Cartridge. In addition I modified a Weaver Scope base so it attached to the barrel with 6 screws (in stead of the original 4), and installed 3 Rings to hold the 2x7x32mm Burris LER Handgun Scope. Also included in the package I sold were Butler Creek Flip Open Scope Lense Covers, Redding Reloading Dies, some Brass and Loaded Ammo.

Well yesterday I bought it all back. To make it better the guy I sold it to had sent the barrel to Metaloy Industries and had Metaloy put a Satin Finish Hard Chrome finish on the barrel, and it matches the Stainless-Steel T/C Frame quite well. So in a sence it is better than when I sold it.

Now I can see if I can smack a Coyote with the 125gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips that are leaving the muzzle at 2683 FPS. Yea I know this may be a little overkill, but this rig will have to make due until my new On Target Technologies 14" Stainless-Steel 6mm T/CU Contender Barrel gets here for my other SS T/C Contender Frame.

Like I said at the onset of this it is not often we get to rectify mistakes we make, and in being able to do so I was so happy I just had to tell someone.

SD Handgunner

PS this rig has also proven itself to be quite effective on the Northeastern South Dakota Whitetails.


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

This sounds like quite the deer slayer. Great speeds for this chambering, I assume that this is due in part to the 6-grove barrel. It looks like you would have a great fox/yote gun also. Hey, do you have any load data for the 309 JDJ? I just picked up one the other day, and have not got it in my hand as of yet, but I am attempting to gather load information before it comes. I have a new nicon 2-8 scope to put on it, it has the T'SOb base and rings, and is a rechamber by ssk on a old 30 herrit 6-grove barrel. I am thinking deer are in for it now. This will fill the gap that I have had between the power of the 250 savage and 7-tcu and the 45-70. Range for larger deer out to the 250 yd range or so, and another varmit longe ranger. Hope you have a great hunting season, talk to you later.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Probably the best place to get data is from SSK Industries. Just tell them you bought the barrel used and what it is. They are normally very helpful.

There is also some data listed at http://benchrest.com/sst/jdj.html. I think the Accurate Arms web site also has data for the .309 JDJ. Other that this I'll see what I can find.

If you barrel is an older 6 land and groove 1 in 14" twist barrel you should expect some great performance out of that barrel. The older 6 land & groove T/C barrels do not seem to build pressure as rapidly as the newer 8 land & goove equal barrels. In addition the slower twist should also build pressures slower. All of this should add up to some great performance from that great cartridge.

I'd be interested in your results once you get your loads all worked up.

SD Handgunner


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

SDH, congratulations on your good luck. 

I went out last weekend to look for something for a varmint handgun. Just missed out on a Rem xp100 in 221 for $200. The barrel was apparently rough, but sounded worth rebarreling to me. Doesn't matter, missed it. Went to 2 big shops, nothing in varmint handguns, but one place had a couple of nice rifles, one was a Dakota in 223. Too pretty for me. I'm too clumsy and would be afraid to take it out of the gun cabinet. I can't afford $1100 to just sit in the cabinet. Had a nice Rem 700 in 22-250 with synthetic stock and fluted barrel with a reputation for putting 5 shots covered by a dime at 200 yds.... Well, I've BEEN to Missouri, that's close enough, show me, but still a little steep. May just have to use my 243 until something else pops up. I may try the target 223 for my H&R. Still having trouble downloading into my MP3 and getting it too play. Man, am I stupid with this computer, or what.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Man Steve, a XP-100 Action should be worth at least $200.00. That would have been a heck of a buy. You could have picked up a 700 ADL Take Off Barrel off of the net, had a gunsmith fit it to the XP Action, Cut it to length and you'd of had a heck of a Varmint Handgun. Well if I ever found a XP CHEAP that is what I would do anyway.

For now I am going to stick with my Contenders. Talked to Mike at On Target Technologies on Monday and I should be able to expect my 14" SS 6mm T/CU Contender Barrel in less than a month. I can hardly wait.

I have been working on getting the newly aquired .30-30 AI out to shoot, but had to pick up a New Scope Mount first. I didn't like the Blued Mount of the Silver Barrel, so I am having a Silver Weaver Base modified to my specs and two extra holes added in the base so I can use 6 screws to attach it to the barrel for a more secure mounting. Hopefully next week I can get out to get it sighted in again.

Also ordered a bunch of bullets this morning, so when they arrive I can start loading to get ready for fall. Ordered some 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips for hte 6mm T/CU (I have some on hand, but not enough), and some 125gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips for the .30-30 AI.

By the time the fall weather gets here I should be ready for some Coyote action.

SD Handgunner

PS I think the winter project will be getting a 14" .223 Contender Barrel, and maybe another frame if I can swing it.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Man, I thought I was going out on a limb getting a 223 barrel for my H&R handi-rifle. They only have about 4 styles to choose from, from the superlight 20" to the ultra, bull barrel in 24 or 26". I thought I would cheap out a little with the regular bull barrel 22" at about $93, plus $15 for fitting. The ultra was only about $10 more, but I just didn't think I needed that much barrel on a 223. Now, for the 25-06, that might be something special. I was tempted by the superlight, makes the gun 5 1/2 lb before adding a scope, bipod, etc. I'm a big guy and can use the exercise.  Still wish I knew what I was doing wrong with the MP3. I can get sounds downloaded to the MP3 and play them back through the computer, but when I open it up by itself, it says "No Files". I've got someone up here who's trying to figure it out. I'll get back to you.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

I am not a wiz when it comes to the electronic stuff, my buddy did all of the sound editing and such for us. Not sure what to tell you on the MP3, but I'm betting it is something simple, usually is something simple that I over look when doing stuff like this.

Good luck with the caller.

SD Handgunner


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Well I finally got the .30-30 AI Contender all together and ready to shoot.

Last week while in Fargo I picked up a Silver Weaver #92AS Scope Base and finally got it modified. I had to drill two extra holes in the scope base to match up to the 6 holes drilled and tapped in the barrel. I also cut off the little extension that hangs out over the barrel, but does not contact the barrel.

This is what the finished product looks like.










The frame is stainless-Steel, and the barrel is Metaloy Hard Chrome Plated with their satin finish. Metaloy tells me the plating is .0002" thick, has a Rockwell hardness of 72 - 75, and has the lubricity qualities of teflon. I also asked Metaloy how to care for this barrel's finish and was told to treat it like a Blued Gun.

While the finishes do not match perfectly, I do think they look quite good together. What are your thoughts?

Our weather finally cooled off, and hopefully I can get some time to get out this weekend and get this rig sighted in. Next week will be busy so I know I will not have time then. My oldest daughter has surgery in Fargo next Thursday, so I will more than likely be in Fargo a couple days next week again, so won't be doing any shooting or hunting then.

SD Handgunner


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

woah I didnt even know they made 30-30 ackley improved, thats quite cool


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Actually .30-30 AI has been available through Fox Ridge Outfitters (which is T/C's Custom Shop) for a few years now. In addition T/C has also made a couple production of regular Factory Contender Barrels in this chambering as well. I believe that one of these special production runs has been recently made for Midway USA as they are again listing Barrels as being available in this caliber.

The .30-30 Ackley Improved is really a quite unique cartridge. Due to the cartridge case design (minimum body taper and the sharp 40 degree shoulder) the case grips the chamber walls so tightly during the firing there is all but ZERO back thrust exerted against the Contender Frame. In addition the .30-30 AI bennifets the most from being IMPROVED, and the case capacity difference between the .30-30 Winchester and the .30-30 Ackley Improved is roughly 33% (increase for the AI version).

In reality it is a very under-rated cartridge for these Handguns IMHO. Cases are super easy to fireform. Either shoot Factory .30-30 Winchester Ammo or the equivalent handload and upon firing the cartridge viola you have a formed .30-30 AI Cartridge Case. For the record I loaded 125gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips with Accurate Arms 2230 Powder in .30-30 Winchester Brass for my fireform load. This load produced 3/4" to 1" 5 shot groups at 100 yards from the bench and the average velocity was 2450 FPS. As such it has been my experience that the fireform loads are accurate enough for hunting with, and provided enough performance to be usefull for summer time varminting (which is what I used most of my Fireform Loads for).

Oops, looks like I've been rambling, OK I'll shut up now.

SD Handgunner

PS there is an article about the .30-30 AI at http://www.handgunhunt.com/tech/t28/index.html


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I wonder if there would be a problem and if it would be worth it to have my 30-30 bolt action rifle rechambered in 30-30AI. It sounds like the performance increase is significant. MAYBE I wouldn't be underpowered for deer with it.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

In my experience, depending on the individual barrel you should gain from 250 - 300 FPS. In the case of my Super 14 .30-30 AI, my fireform loads (max load for a .30-30 Winchester) produced 2400 FPS. When loaded in the Formed .30-30 AI Brass I added 4 grains of powder which yielded me 283 FPS increase.

Hopefully before fall is over I will have the opportunity to experiment with a Fox Ridge Outfitters (T/C's Custom Shop) Contender Carbine Barrel in .30-30 AI. This barrel will be a 23" Bull Barrel, but will have the new style rifling (8 Equal Lands & Grooves with a twist rate of 1 in 10"). However we do still have some of the loads I used for Fireforming, so should be able to tell the percent of increase the .30-30 AI offers.

SD Handgunner


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I have a generic Savage model bolt action rifle in 30-30 and can order a barrel from H&R for my single shot. Lee precision sells dies (including a powder measure, shell holder and loading data) for the 30-30AI for about $24.00 through MidwayUSA. I have 150 gr Nosler partitions loaded to close to 2400 fps now. If I could add about 200 to 250 fps, this would come closer to if not equal a 308. This is getting VERY interesting. Of course, since I just have money to burn, but hey, that's what it's for.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

For the record, when I first worked up loads with this barrel I did work up a load with 150gr. Nosler Ballistic tips. I used IMR-3031 Powder and achieved a velocity of 2437 FPS. In addition I have a bunch of data from another .30-30 AI shooter (who has been shooting a couple different .30-30 AI Contender Handgun Barrels, 1 - 14" and 1 - 15"), and he has done a lot of work with 150gr. Bullets. His velocities are running from 2350 FPS to 2450 FPS with 150gr. Bullets. In addition he has reported that IMR-3031 is the powder of choice with 150gr. Bullets. Another fellow is using Alliant RL-7 with 150gr. Bullets and he is running right around 2375 FPS from his 14" Handgun Barrel.

I would think that with a 22" Barreled Bolt Action Rifle in .30-30 AI you should expect 2600 FPS to 2700 FPS from a 150 with the right load.

It might not get you quite the velocity of a .308 Winchester, but it should be on the heels of a .300 Savage at least. Besides the .30-30 AI is a very neat looking cartridge with the minimum body taper and sharp shoulder.

SD Handgunner


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

Rember, if you are going to re-chamber your bolt action 30-30, you need to have a gunsmith re-cut your chamber. If it is done right, this means cutting a thread or two off the barrel to get a clean improved chamber. If they tell you that it can be done with a simple ream job and no threads need to be cut, they don't know how to do the job properly for you to get the most out of the improved chamber. In a bolt action gun, the 30-30 can be a real improvement over a leveraction. Call sierra's information phone line, and ask if they can send you any information on increased performance loads in the 30-30 boltactin guns. I think they may have some information of this.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Thanks. Of course, you just made it cost more for me :roll: , but since I'm rolling in cash :roll: , it'll be no problem. I probably can't afford to do it once, much less twice, but if you were going to do this, would you opt for the bolt action, or a single shot (H&R) barrel? Also, since we're on the subject of AI's, would the 280 Rem AI be a real improvement, or a waste of time? I also have a 280 Rem H&R barrel coming. I was looking in the MidwayUSA catalog last night and there are also dies for the 280 REM AI for about the same price. I know they are the lowest price dies out there, but have used them for a long time with no complaints and I'm impressed with getting the shell holder and loading data with it for no extra charge. Yes, I have a universal set of shell holders, but it is so handy getting out a set and everything is there. If I can find the space to shoot, I plan on setting the zero on the 280 at about 250 yds. Should be able to hold right on out to 300 yds without any adjustment, holdover, etc. Then have to get in shape to visit my niece. (Mt) I'm 51 now, can't wait much longer.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Actually the .30-30 Ackley Improved cartridge is one of the only Ackley Improved cartridges in which the barrel does not need to be set back in rechambering the parent cartridge to the Ackley Improved cartridge. The reason is simple, the distance between the rim of the cartridge and the shoulder is longer on the .30-30 Ackley Improved than it is on the .30-30 Winchester.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3030winchester.jpg

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd3030ackleyimproved.jpg

On other Ackley Improved Cartridges the barrel does indeed need to be set back to get proper headspace, ie the .280 Remington H&R Barrel can not be rechambered to the .280 Ackley Improved Cartridge since on a barrel of this nature there is no was to set it back like there is on a bolt action.

SD Handgunner


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Isn't the distance from the rim to the shoulder longer on all of the AI's? I thought that was one of the significant changes. I'll take your word for it that I can't have the 280 rechambered in the H&R, but doesn't that mean I COULD (if I could afford it) have it done on the H&R 30-30 barrel?


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Yep you can have a fixed breach barrel in .30-30 Winchester rechambered to .30-30 Ackley Improved. The H&R-NEF Barrel system is similar to the Contender in that the breach of the barrel is fixed and not screwed into a receiver.

If you were to rechamber a .280 Remington H&R-NEF to the .280 Ackley Improved you'd end up with a cartridge that had a longer case body than a standard .280 AI.

SD Handgunner


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Thanks, I wouldn't want that. But the 30-30AI certainly sounds interesting. I'm gonna have to save up my pennies, a lot of pennies.


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