# The migration is on



## Dances-with-Labs

You know your in the migration when the tornadoes start and the green heads are gettin fat and full feathered. This was a great hunt because we picked up some nice canvas backs in the mix too.


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## prairie hunter

There must be 100K mallards on one SE ND SPOT we drove by on our way home. One field held 30K or more - it was steady black clouds water - mile out - corn field. Look like blackbirds until you got close enough to realized it was ducks.

Posted tighter than a ....

Saw one group hunting with about half dozen spinners ... this was a 11AM. Surprised they were not done - then again they were a few hundred yards outside the main flyway.


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## blhunter3

Local ducks get fat and full plumage too. oke:


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## Sasha and Abby

I missed it by a few days... damn... just damn.


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## ValleyHunter

Dances-with-Labs said:


> You know your in the migration when the tornadoes start and the green heads are gettin fat and full feathered. This was a great hunt because we picked up some nice canvas backs in the mix too.


just because ducks are getting fat and full plumed doesnt mean migration. Tornadoes of ducks, doesnt mean migration. Canvasbacks are also around very early in the season. but good try!


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## Feathers

ValleyHunter said:


> just because ducks are getting fat and full plumed doesnt mean migration. Tornadoes of ducks, doesnt mean migration. Canvasbacks are also around very early in the season. but good try!


DB!

The migration is definitely on. Try to resist letting out the troll in you.

Thanks for the report DWL. Looks like a great shoot!


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## 9manfan

^
^
^
X2 , these are migratory birds were hunting here, they're migrating all the time...................nice pic by the way.........


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## Gooseshredder21

blhunter3 said:



> Local ducks get fat and full plumage too. oke:


I can't find a topic where you haven't replied in rude manner. Stop being such a doosh. :bop: 
Locals do not fatten up the same time birds that came from way up north do. Obviously never seen softball heads late season.


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## blhunter3

Please explain why they do not fatten up the same?


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## drakespanker12

only thing you missed sash was the herd of NR's, MN's deer opener will kill alot of pressure, plenty of time yet to get up here!!


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## ValleyHunter

Feathers said:


> ValleyHunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> just because ducks are getting fat and full plumed doesnt mean migration. Tornadoes of ducks, doesnt mean migration. Canvasbacks are also around very early in the season. but good try!
> 
> 
> 
> DB!
> 
> The migration is definitely on. Try to resist letting out the troll in you.
> 
> Thanks for the report DWL. Looks like a great shoot!
Click to expand...

I never said it wasn't on. Im just saying it doesnt mean that its always the case.


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## BB

> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Local ducks get fat and full plumage too. oke:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't find a topic where you haven't replied in rude manner. Stop being such a doosh.
Click to expand...

Nevermind him, he thinks he is the authority on North Dakota waterfowl hunting and farming.
He always talks like he is a big farmer and about how expensive farming is but he probably doesn't have $20 in the game. 
I bet he drives out an hr from fargo and hunts/scouts the same areas and then complains about all the pressure when he can probably see 94 from most of the places he hunts. He takes out his frustration online against non-residents which tells me he doesn't kill much. 
Brad Paisley wrote a song about him, something about being "so much cooler online"


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## feather_duster

BB said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Local ducks get fat and full plumage too. oke:
> 
> 
> 
> I can't find a topic where you haven't replied in rude manner. Stop being such a doosh.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nevermind him, he thinks he is the authority on North Dakota waterfowl hunting and farming.
> He always talks like he is a big farmer and about how expensive farming is but he probably doesn't have $20 in the game.
> I bet he drives out an hr from fargo and hunts/scouts the same areas and then complains about all the pressure when he can probably see 94 from most of the places he hunts. He takes out his frustration online against non-residents which tells me he doesn't kill much.
> Brad Paisley wrote a song about him, something about being "so much cooler online"
Click to expand...

This sounds about right.... :thumb:


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## Uncle Fuzzy

Sorry guys, it's over already. We were in the middle of it from the 28th to the 31st. Couldn't find a duck in the county by Friday the 2nd.


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## teamflightstoppersND

Uncle Fuzzy said:


> Sorry guys, it's over already. We were in the middle of it from the 28th to the 31st. Couldn't find a duck in the county by Friday the 2nd.


I think there are more birds still in canada. The next push is coming soon.


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## Maverick

blhunter3 said:


> Local ducks get fat and full plumage too. oke:


your an idiot!!! oke:


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## NC Ducker

Uncle Fuzzy said:


> Sorry guys, it's over already. We were in the middle of it from the 28th to the 31st. Couldn't find a duck in the county by Friday the 2nd.


Not hardly. I know guys murdering them in Canada.


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## spankylabs

Bunch of new birds on sodak border this morning. Wish I could of stayed the rest of the week.


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## Chuck Smith

Wait you mean all the birds in ND didn't get pushed out because of NR's.... oke:

People of ND should see at least another 2 weeks of good hunting with new birds pushing in from Canada daily. It is all dependent on the weather of course. But a buddy of mine drove to MN from Montana and said ND was full of snows and ducks. So go get them boys.


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## Maverick

Chuck Smith said:


> Wait you mean all the birds in ND didn't get pushed out because of NR's.... oke:
> 
> People of ND should see at least another 2 weeks of good hunting with new birds pushing in from Canada daily. It is all dependent on the weather of course. But a buddy of mine drove to MN from Montana and said ND was full of snows and ducks. So go get them boys.


In my area, local birds did get pushed out after the first weekend of NR hunting. Local bird numbers were down...duckfest numbers prove so ,as it was the lowest harvest ever recorded. With the new birds arriving and new NR hunters entering (4 new rigs last weekend with four guys in them) and cold temps......they won't be here long! Did your buddy say if they were staying and feeding or just flying over....wait....how would he know, he was just driving by? oke: oke:


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## BB

Your town has a duckfest and duck hunters showed up....deal with it.


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## Maverick

BB said:


> Your town has a duckfest and duck hunters showed up....deal with it.


....an educated reply.... :withstupid:


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## Daniels

I would like to say I ran into 2 sets of NR hunters in NE SD yesterday. Tried to talk to a MN hunter hunting a field I have permission this weekend on(he blew past me and didn't even wave) and talked to a couple guys from Michigan. They were very respectfull and shot their 10 greenheads too in a field that I have hunted. I talked to them for at least 10 minutes after they picked up. I can see the ND residents problems with MN hunters, not too friendly to the East of us. BTW no birds in NE Sodak, everyone stay home...


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## 9manfan

Daniels said:


> I would like to say I ran into 2 sets of NR hunters in NE SD yesterday. Tried to talk to a MN hunter hunting a field I have permission this weekend on(he blew past me and didn't even wave) I can see the ND residents problems with MN hunters, not too friendly to the East of us.


And you base your asumptions on all Mn hunters because one truck from Mn didn't stop to talk to you or even wave...... :eyeroll: ......


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## Daniels

9manfan said:


> Daniels said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to say I ran into 2 sets of NR hunters in NE SD yesterday. Tried to talk to a MN hunter hunting a field I have permission this weekend on(he blew past me and didn't even wave) I can see the ND residents problems with MN hunters, not too friendly to the East of us.
> 
> 
> 
> And you base your asumptions on this because one truck from Mn didn't stop to talk to you or even wave...... :eyeroll: ......
Click to expand...

That is all I have to go off of at this point. He was pulling out of a drive as i was pulling up to it. Not like he was going 60 dow nthe highway, lol. Guess people in SD are different than other states in that we wave to others when we drive by and stop and talk to a person that flags us down. I am sure there are good MN hunters out there, my only experience is as stated above.


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## 9manfan

Daniels said:


> 9manfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniels said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would like to say I ran into 2 sets of NR hunters in NE SD yesterday. Tried to talk to a MN hunter hunting a field I have permission this weekend on(he blew past me and didn't even wave) I can see the ND residents problems with MN hunters, not too friendly to the East of us.
> 
> 
> 
> And you base your asumptions on this because one truck from Mn didn't stop to talk to you or even wave...... :eyeroll: ......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is all I have to go off of at this point. He was pulling out of a drive as i was pulling up to it. Not like he was going 60 dow nthe highway, lol. Guess people in SD are different than other states in that we wave to others when we drive by and stop and talk to a person that flags us down. I am sure there are good MN hunters out there, my only experience is as stated above.
Click to expand...

I hope you don't judge every book by it's cover, once you get into the book you might find out it's better then you thought....


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## Chuck Smith

> In my area, local birds did get pushed out after the first weekend of NR hunting. Local bird numbers were down...duckfest numbers prove so ,as it was the lowest harvest ever recorded. With the new birds arriving and new NR hunters entering (4 new rigs last weekend with four guys in them) and cold temps......they won't be here long! Did your buddy say if they were staying and feeding or just flying over....wait....how would he know, he was just driving by? oke: oke


You are correct he was just driving. But he saw them on the ground and water too. So I assume they were feeding, resting, or even roosting.

Also my contacts in other parts of the state have been talking about seeing birds everywhere. Plus I was out there before halloween....did very well and just talked to my contacts and they say it is even better than when I was there. So yep Migration is on!!! But again it will be NR pushing birds out of the state....not weather oke:



> I can see the ND residents problems with MN hunters, not too friendly to the East of us.


Funny I had the same thing going on when I would wave to ND residents when I was out there hunting...about 30% would wave back.... So I assume all ND residents are unfriendly.... uke: Don't judge people if they wave or don't on friendliness. They could have been thinking about something else, not paying attention, in a hurry to go somewhere, etc.


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## Daniels

Chuck Smith said:


> In my area, local birds did get pushed out after the first weekend of NR hunting. Local bird numbers were down...duckfest numbers prove so ,as it was the lowest harvest ever recorded. With the new birds arriving and new NR hunters entering (4 new rigs last weekend with four guys in them) and cold temps......they won't be here long! Did your buddy say if they were staying and feeding or just flying over....wait....how would he know, he was just driving by? oke: oke
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct he was just driving. But he saw them on the ground and water too. So I assume they were feeding, resting, or even roosting.
> 
> Also my contacts in other parts of the state have been talking about seeing birds everywhere. Plus I was out there before halloween....did very well and just talked to my contacts and they say it is even better than when I was there. So yep Migration is on!!! But again it will be NR pushing birds out of the state....not weather oke:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see the ND residents problems with MN hunters, not too friendly to the East of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny I had the same thing going on when I would wave to ND residents when I was out there hunting...about 30% would wave back.... So I assume all ND residents are unfriendly.... uke: Don't judge people if they wave or don't on friendliness. They could have been thinking about something else, not paying attention, in a hurry to go somewhere, etc.
Click to expand...

Funny thing, I am in SD not ND. Reading is hard boys, I know.


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## Chuck Smith

I know you are in SD.....but you need to understand I was comparing like you did with people......ie someone didn't wave at me so they must be jerks.... sounds stupid doesn't it. :bop:


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## 9manfan

Daniels said:


> I can see the ND residents problems with MN hunters, not too friendly to the East of us.
> 
> 
> 
> Funny thing, I am in SD not ND. Reading is hard boys, I know.
Click to expand...

No, I read where you were in SD, it's just your assumption that ND hunters dont like Mn hunters, did you do a survey on this or judge it by one truck..... oke: .....


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## Daniels

It is soooo hard to get you guys fired up, lol. Too easy haha


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## 9manfan

Daniels said:


> It is soooo hard to get you guys fired up, lol. Too easy haha


Not excited at all, we just like to pick on people from Iowa......


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## Chuck Smith

> It is soooo hard to get you guys fired up, lol. Too easy haha


No not fired up at all. But if you come online to "just fire people up" that is some one bored and needs better things to do. IMHO that is what is wrong with society today. But again that is just my opinion....and what do they say about opinions....they are just like a$$holes....everyone has one.

Back on topic.... the migration is on and go get them!! :sniper: :sniper:


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## Maverick

Chuck Smith said:


> In my area, local birds did get pushed out after the first weekend of NR hunting. Local bird numbers were down...duckfest numbers prove so ,as it was the lowest harvest ever recorded. With the new birds arriving and new NR hunters entering (4 new rigs last weekend with four guys in them) and cold temps......they won't be here long! Did your buddy say if they were staying and feeding or just flying over....wait....how would he know, he was just driving by? oke: oke
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct he was just driving. But he saw them on the ground and water too. So I assume they were feeding, resting, or even roosting.
> 
> Also my contacts in other parts of the state have been talking about seeing birds everywhere. Plus I was out there before halloween....did very well and just talked to my contacts and they say it is even better than when I was there. So yep Migration is on!!! But again it will be NR pushing birds out of the state....not weather oke:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see the ND residents problems with MN hunters, not too friendly to the East of us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Funny I had the same thing going on when I would wave to ND residents when I was out there hunting...about 30% would wave back.... So I assume all ND residents are unfriendly.... uke: Don't judge people if they wave or don't on friendliness. They could have been thinking about something else, not paying attention, in a hurry to go somewhere, etc.
Click to expand...

Your assumptions are just that....truth is they are leaving just as fast as they are getting here (maybe not in your spot...but in mine they are)! That's coming from someone out in the field and not driving by or talking to contacts. I have personally seen more movement south than birds staying. With the snow storm coming this week through the weekend and temps lowering with the addition of more hunters...guess what's going to happen? BIRD MOVEMENT. Deer opener this weekend which will mean less access due to land owner wanting the deer to stay on their land means less opportunity (it happens every year)....so your right when you assume things! Added NR pressure will help move birds south in SD oke: oke: ! With more NR understanding that there are more Res. deer hunting than bird hunting this weekend...do you supose that they are starting to change dates?
So where are your contacts located? I would be willing to assume that I can just drive up and shoot birds....its just that easy right? That's what your saying isn't it?

I have one more question for you....In an average year of you hunitng your home base area....how many NR do you see?
I can honestly say that this year has been the worst EVER in hunting opportunity/quality for my area in 30+ years hunting.....I have had MANY locals say the same thing!!! So I would be more than willing to come to your area and shoot some birds! Where again did you say that was at?


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## Daniels

9manfan said:


> Daniels said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is soooo hard to get you guys fired up, lol. Too easy haha
> 
> 
> 
> Not excited at all, we just like to pick on people from Iowa......
Click to expand...

Good Form 9man, good form. as stated before get after em boys, they are here. I didn't write my first post to fire people up but it happened to happen anyway, happens alot on here. Just explaining my experience.


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## 9manfan

Daniels said:


> 9manfan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniels said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is soooo hard to get you guys fired up, lol. Too easy haha
> 
> 
> 
> Not excited at all, we just like to pick on people from Iowa......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Good Form 9man, good form. as stated before get after em boys, they are here. I didn't write my first post to fire people up but it happened to happen anyway, happens alot on here. Just explaining my experience.
Click to expand...

Good hunting to ya Daniels the rest of the season ,I'll be out friday thru sunday, we've even had a good influx of new birds in our area..... :beer: .....


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## Chuck Smith

> I have one more question for you....In an average year of you hunitng your home base area....how many NR do you see?
> I can honestly say that this year has been the worst EVER in hunting opportunity/quality for my area in 30+ years hunting.....I have had MANY locals say the same thing!!! So I would be more than willing to come to your area and shoot some birds! Where again did you say that was at?


I see lots of out of state hunters... I live by the Mississippi river and I see people from WI all the time. Also i hunt around Rochester MN....Come late season goose hunting and want to talk about a [email protected] show with all the trailers trying to get onto land. So yeah come on down and hunt. I welcome you and don't blame pressure on why birds move. I know it is weather and the internal clock that is in their little heads that make them want to move.

The area with my contacts is a little south of you. Won't be doing any internet scouting for you since that is a no-no. But yes it was pretty easy to get onto land. Some not posted and if it was posted just knocked on doors. Not a big deal. My contacts have been hammering birds since august early goose. So if you think pressure is an issue or the reason for birds moving think about that....Residents hammering birds since August. They also have hunted water....OH NO...Roost busing!!! So if you want to talk about pressure and think pressure is an issue.... how about that! Again if you want to can on this subject of pressure don't you think early goose season for 1 month doesn't pressure ducks??? I was out there this year and landed over 500 birds a couple of times during the early goose. Guess what those ducks got educated to a decoy spread! But again many R hunters don't think that is pressure....only pressure put on birds is by NR hunters....not R hunters....not seeing decoy spreads since August or being hunted by anyone even resident hunters puts pressure...etc.

Then I will talk about how farming has gotten more advance and less waste grain in the field for food. Do you think that will make birds move out of areas as well???

All the Hatred toward NR or blaming them for bird movement is not 100% the cause....ie weather, constant pressure since august, less food available, internal clocks to head south, etc. Many factors that are not just NR hunters.



> _[b]With the snow storm coming this week through the weekend and temps lowering[/b] _with the addition of more hunters...guess what's going to happen? BIRD MOVEMENT.


BINGO on the bird movement with the first 1/2 of the statement. Pressure to a certain extent. They will just move to a field with low pressure or find a lake or body of water that has none. This is what the animals do.

Another thing about pressure if you think it is such a big deal...... When I was out there I hunted a field for three days and did very well. I told my contacts about it. They have been hunting it ever since and still been doing good. So how does the pressure concept fit in to your argument? That field have been hunted for 2+ weeks and still producing. Also to throw another wrinkle in to the mix.... People hunted the water that was roosting the birds right next to the field when i was there 2 days, and people were hunting two more fields that were picked next to this body of water. Again loads of pressure but still producing.

Also if you want to say this area doesn't get many hunters....WRONG. Like I stated one body of water had 3 groups hunting around it two times I was hunting. So yeah some "pressure" was in the area.

Now I don't want to get into a pi$$ing match on the internet. But every situation is different. Pressure is a very small part on why birds move. They may be tougher to hunt and decoy....but that is a different subject. Because animals get educated and smart. Also this thread is about migration. It is on...period. Birds are moving. :bop:


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## Maverick

Chuck Smith said:


> I have one more question for you....In an average year of you hunitng your home base area....how many NR do you see?
> I can honestly say that this year has been the worst EVER in hunting opportunity/quality for my area in 30+ years hunting.....I have had MANY locals say the same thing!!! So I would be more than willing to come to your area and shoot some birds! Where again did you say that was at?
> 
> 
> 
> I see lots of out of state hunters... I live by the Mississippi river and I see people from WI all the time. Also i hunt around Rochester MN....Come late season goose hunting and want to talk about a [email protected] show with all the trailers trying to get onto land. So yeah come on down and hunt. I welcome you and don't blame pressure on why birds move. I know it is weather and the internal clock that is in their little heads that make them want to move.
> 
> The area with my contacts is a little south of you. Won't be doing any internet scouting for you since that is a no-no. But yes it was pretty easy to get onto land. Some not posted and if it was posted just knocked on doors. Not a big deal. My contacts have been hammering birds since august early goose. So if you think pressure is an issue or the reason for birds moving think about that....Residents hammering birds since August. They also have hunted water....OH NO...Roost busing!!! So if you want to talk about pressure and think pressure is an issue.... how about that! Again if you want to can on this subject of pressure don't you think early goose season for 1 month doesn't pressure ducks??? I was out there this year and landed over 500 birds a couple of times during the early goose. Guess what those ducks got educated to a decoy spread! But again many R hunters don't think that is pressure....only pressure put on birds is by NR hunters....not R hunters....not seeing decoy spreads since August or being hunted by anyone even resident hunters puts pressure...etc.
> 
> Then I will talk about how farming has gotten more advance and less waste grain in the field for food. Do you think that will make birds move out of areas as well???
> 
> All the Hatred toward NR or blaming them for bird movement is not 100% the cause....ie weather, constant pressure since august, less food available, internal clocks to head south, etc. Many factors that are not just NR hunters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _[b]With the snow storm coming this week through the weekend and temps lowering[/b] _with the addition of more hunters...guess what's going to happen? BIRD MOVEMENT.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BINGO on the bird movement with the first 1/2 of the statement. Pressure to a certain extent. They will just move to a field with low pressure or find a lake or body of water that has none. This is what the animals do.
> 
> Another thing about pressure if you think it is such a big deal...... When I was out there I hunted a field for three days and did very well. I told my contacts about it. They have been hunting it ever since and still been doing good. So how does the pressure concept fit in to your argument? That field have been hunted for 2+ weeks and still producing. Also to throw another wrinkle in to the mix.... People hunted the water that was roosting the birds right next to the field when i was there 2 days, and people were hunting two more fields that were picked next to this body of water. Again loads of pressure but still producing.
> 
> Also if you want to say this area doesn't get many hunters....WRONG. Like I stated one body of water had 3 groups hunting around it two times I was hunting. So yeah some "pressure" was in the area.
> 
> Now I don't want to get into a pi$$ing match on the internet. But every situation is different. Pressure is a very small part on why birds move. They may be tougher to hunt and decoy....but that is a different subject. Because animals get educated and smart. Also this thread is about migration. It is on...period. Birds are moving. :bop:
Click to expand...

So you do see a fraction of NR hunters in MN compared to what I see in ND&#8230;fact&#8230;.. (Not many from ND though..I would assume). Your late season hunts are a bit confusing as my contacts in that area say otherwise. They are calling me (continuously from Nov to Dec) with ample fields to hunt, with literally no pressure! No posting or other hunters around. This not the area I was asking to hunt&#8230;keep that in mind&#8230;&#8230;
The funny thing is that in all your writings you say your contact&#8230;but won't say where. We have had this discussion a couple times in the past and you are yet to tell me where. Can you see why its hard for me to believe you? Why are you worried about internet scouting if YOUR AREA, which is south of mine(which is hard for me to believe), see's no pressure? With your own reasoning there should be ample amount of hunting for us all? You can PM me if you want, as to where it is&#8230;..otherwise I am going to throw the BS flag (this is the area I was asking to hunt)! Pretty easy to say something with no proof behind it! Your contacts, if actually hunting, are hunting as much as you say they are hunting, they know that letting them land does not push them out of the area, just to another field! Are they educated when the season oopens&#8230;yes&#8230;..but they are still in the same spots as there are when early season canada closes. Will you find these birds in the same spots once the season opens&#8230;.Yes but not the third weekend as they will be pushed south into SD (I have seen this happen multiple years in a row)So why won't you let us know where all this good hunting is? Are you trying to keep it for yourself? Or just making up stories to help your point of view? Which is what I am starting to assume!
Here is where you are making your own assumptions&#8230;&#8230; Where did I say that pressure only comes from NR?.....go ahead and take a second to read my posts over again&#8230;I will wait!.....done..ok. Nowhere did I say its all NR&#8230;I said "add NR pressure" which means I am taking into the fact that there are a lot of R hunters in my area aswell&#8230;.which is a fact!

Your little rant about farmers and advanced ways of harvesting are really moot considering most of small farmers in my area are still combining with the same equipment they bought in the 90's!
Where does the hatred come from? Are you assuming that all R hate NR or just basingit off a few views on here! I think you are assuming that I am saying that bird movment is based off of NR...not true! Weather is #1 factor undoubtedly so. But when you add more pressure to an area that sees more pressure than YOUR AREA...guess what...birds are not going to stay around! They head down to SD to a state that CAPS their waterfowl hunters!
I really don't believe you when you say you hunted a field 3days and then your contacts have been hunting it ever since! I have hunted long enough to know that after a second day fields are burnt and the feed continue in another field! Your pressure concept is really out of wack! 2 plus weeks of good hunting...god your stories just keep getting better and better!!! But yet you still won't say where! Hmmm are we on a wild goose chase now!

Maybe yours and my definition of quality is different. Shooting 2 teal and 2 smilers with a couple of coots to boot isn't a QUALITY hunt in my opinion! Pressure is a huge part of bird movement...along with hunter movement as well.....why else is there no internet scouting on this website, and why else are hunters coming from other states to hunt here!


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## Maverick

Second of all can you see how it ercks me when my quality of hunting is being over run by people from other states...not just MN now. Unlike your area where you see WI people I am seeing them from SD,IA,AL,MI,NM,AK,AR,CA,GA,ID,ILMN,CO,KS,MD,MS,NE,NJ...duck clubs (from other states) buying houses and sending their members here to hunt for a nominal fee....and then you come along and say....NO PRESSURE ANYWHERE...NO HUNTERS ANYWHERE...WHICH IS NOT TRUE....meanwhile you live a few hundred miles away and spend a few days here..and have a buddy drive through and have contacts ..but yet you think you know whats really going on in MY STATE?


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## blhunter3

I agree with Maverick on this one. Where I typically hunt was over run with NR's. My family members and friends too said on a average year they maybe have 3 to 4 people ask to hunt, this year was 3 to 4 a week. And guess what there was a HUGE lack of birds. Maybe it was due to water, or maybe just the pressure. Birds figure out where its safe pretty fast.


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## Snowgooseman__SD

I cant stand trying to talk to Minnesotans. They have no respect for OUR land. Yes the people ive let hunt before ruined it for all minnesotans because they tear through fields, dont pick up there shells and even had one guy dump out his blind in my field, i had a group that dug a hole and barried ducks in my field. not acceptable and this year i have had 4 minnesota license plates pull up and had to tell them no.


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## templey_41

Oh no not you again Snowdeuche man.SD. How many times are you going to tell these MN people no?

Maybe i'll find some old SD license plates and ask for permission and then light every one of your fields on fire and take your sister out back and give her the old slap and tickle and then not even call her back. and then I'll tell you your dog is ugly...to YOUR FACE!

I'm with Chuck on this one. Mostly because I have to stick up for my fellow MN resident.

Come to Rochester I dare you. You will be scratching your head every single day you are here. When the geese fly over your decoy spread they actually yell out what kind of decoys you have. Bigfoots over there! Them there Phil are dakota's. Try hunting the x. the only time it works in Rochester is in the snow. Sure there are some days ie a migration day or fog that birds are easier to decoy.

You think you have it sooooo bad with how much "movement" of birds you get. Last time I checked that was a good thing. Stale birds suck donkey d!ck. Keep em moving just like deer hunting. IMHO.

Oh Chuck hunts SOUTH of you. So if you were say here ----> . <------ ( you are the dot, and on your computer screen if you hit enter a few times,

CHuck would be some where around here ---------------------> O <----- (he is the circle) this is south.

So lets get on some common ground unlike our political parties. Hunting pressure is increasing in ND.(Fact or fiction) or maybe its that so much land is being posted that you see more people scrambling to find unposted ground. (Fact or fiction) When the numbers come out on the number of NR hunters this year that bought a license in ND I bet we will see that it's probably about right inline with the averages from the past 10 years.

What can be done about it? Read my thread "Something has to change" in the open forum. for further discussion.

Now back to the migration. SHould be peak here in SE MN in the next week. This is the typical calendar birds that will be showing up the 3rd week of Nov. Good luck to all.


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## Snowgooseman__SD

^^ hahahahahahahhahaha thanks for the good laugh!! Didnt read all of it but after the 4th or so sentence just kinda skimmed over it. No need for me to ever come to minnesota?? i have ducks geese deer and Plenty of phesants here!! :beer: Just another reason we should keep minnesotans out of south dakota  :rollin:


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## templey_41

Snowgooseman__SD said:


> ^^ hahahahahahahhahaha thanks for the good laugh!! Didnt read all of it but after the 4th or so sentence just kinda skimmed over it. No need for me to ever come to minnesota?? i have ducks geese deer and Plenty of phesants here!! :beer: Just another reason we should keep minnesotans out of south dakota  :rollin:


Didnt read the rest or couldnt read it? Its okay u look for the shape of mn on the license plates when we come a rollin into your driveway.

Just another reason? What was the first one? And another?


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## blhunter3

We don't live here because the winters are pretty or the summers are cool. Maybe we live here because of the hunting or fishing.


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## Snowgooseman__SD

I live here because the dakotas are possibly the best states out there, neighbors help neighbors. the scenery. little farm towns that help one another. kinda like when the missouri river/red river flooded hundreds of thousands of homes did you see the many uniforms out there? or did you see us asking for help from the gov't/??? no becasue we had neighbors people who cared for one another people who respected other people. Thats hard to find and i can see how sparse it is when our neighbors aka minnesota comes over and disrespects a guys land that my dad and me work so hard for just because that land is what we make a living off of. You can say what you like not sure what i did to ever pi#@ you off besides complained because i had some guys ruin it for others to hunt my land.


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## ValleyHunter

Snowgooseman__SD said:


> I cant stand trying to talk to Minnesotans. They have no respect for OUR land. Yes the people ive let hunt before ruined it for all minnesotans because they tear through fields, dont pick up there shells and even had one guy dump out his blind in my field, i had a group that dug a hole and barried ducks in my field. not acceptable and this year i have had 4 minnesota license plates pull up and had to tell them no.


If i ever hunted your field, id prolly do the same thing. :beer:


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## Excel4234

It makes me laugh that you guys in ND actually think there is "pressure". I want to know how you can honestly think that. Over three-qaurters of the birds that first migrate to ND have not seen a decoy that year yet, it's one of the if not the first state where alot of those birds comming down from Canada experience hunters for the first time, why do you think so many NR go up there to hunt? It's because it's the next closest thing to Canada and it allows U.S. residents to have hunting experience similar to that of Canada, without having to deal with all the other bs that is involved when crossing the border. The NR hunters have absolutley no impact on "pressuring birds" or pushing them before most of the residents can get to hunt them, that's the biggest bunch of crap I have ever heard. You don't even have a clue what pressure is and hunting pressured birds. You want to see pressure and what hunting pressured birds is like, go down to Arkansas and hunt a timber hole in late december, that's pressure. Those birds have been called at, shot at, decoyed, and what ever else the past four months by hunters during their migration down the flyway, compared to ND where maybe 5% of all the birds that migrate to ND from Canada may have experienced a hunter of have been shot at before they get to you guys. ND is the most well-known state for waterfowl and waterfowl habitat in the prarie pothole region for a reason. Yeah a portion that is because great conservation groups like DU and delta WF, but another big contributor that makes ND's state ran conservation programs so good is because of the large number of NR's that come to ND and pay good money for NR hunting license to hunt for 3-5 days up there. ND depends on that more than anything else as source of funding for it's state ran programs. So trying to blame your lack of success on the growing number NR hunters is a cheap excuse that holds no weight. The amount of prime waterfowl habitat and hunting ground availabe to hunters, and the percentage of that ground that actually gets hunted from both ND R's and NR's combined is minimal compared to the other states in the midwest and PPR. ND is not the only state that has noticed a decrease in hunter success compared to 10 years ago, it's every state has felt that. The biggest contributor for this is simple, its called evolution. With rapid increases in technology of guns, camo, decoys, equipment, etc. the birds are constantly evolving to these changes in order to survive. Prime example of this is when people first started using rotators and spinning wing decoys and how deadly effective they where the first couple of years. The spinning wing decoy literally changed the sport of waterfowl hunting, it allowed people who knew next to nothing about waterfowl hunting to out and kill birds just like anyone else, all they had to do is put a spinning wing out with a doz. decoys and wait, and your were pretty much gaurenteed 9 times out of 10 you were going to shoot birds. You didn't have to know about calling or how to call, anything about decoys and decoy placement, and all the other small things because the first couple of years it was that effective. Today that is a totally different story, I think they are still pretty effective on young birds, and singles and doubles, and in my opinion is maybe a little more than 50% effective for everything. The reason for this: evolution. It didn't happen over night, it happened over a longer period of time, more and more each year. The birds had to evolve to this change in order to survive, if they didn't over period of time their would be a noticeable impact in duck population because the rapid decrease in survivial rates. Nature has works in its own mysterious and crazy ways to keep everything in checks and balances, if you really think about it, it's pretty amazing. But I'll get off my high horse and wrap this up. My point being yes in certain areas and situations hunters and hunting pressure does have an impact on birds and success, I won't argue that, but the biggest reasons for waterfowl hunting seemingly it is becoming more difficult, is because it is, but its due to alot of things that us as hunters very little to no control over, like evolution, industrialization/urban growth, and destruction of natural habitat, and just the overall available land to hunt in some areas. I have nothing bad to say about ND or the people ND, I have been hunting up there many times and have always been treated with respect and manner from every R hunter I have met, and do nothing short of the same in return. ND residents are fortunate to live in the best state in the country for waterfowl hunting and have the number of resources they have compared to a majority of the other states. So don't take that for granted, yeah I can see how it gets annoying with more and more people coming up there to hunt compared to 20 years ago, and sometimes they do screw you over on spots, you got to remind yourself were you live, basically the poor mans Canada trip location. So try your best to put up with some of the NR spanks and take things with a grain of salt. Sorry about the novel, it ended up much longer than attented, just trying to get people to look at things in a different perspective. FYI: If you can get out today and the next two days, do it, the hunting should be excellent and the freeze line in canada with this front is coming down rapidly, wouldn't be suprised if the next two days sum up the season for most of northern ND, and probably will be the last two days of some open water on the potholes for the year, and with total snow fall amounts forcasted in most areas of well over a foot it wont matter if their is open water, with that amount of snow the birds lose all their food sources and will migrate south until they find available ones. Good luck the next couple days and through the weekend, if your able to make it to your spots and find open water you guys should hammer them. get it why it's good there is going to be a pretty small window. Thanks


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## blhunter3

We don't want to turn into those other states is the problem you NR's are not comprehending.


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## nryan

Another one of these? Come on Excel? Seriously?

Why is it always and I am right you are wrong argument? Both sides are right and both are wrong on certain aspects.

I appreciated the attempt at trying to get people to see things in a different light, I feel it is important to try to break from the normal finger pointing, but I feel your attempts at this are flawed given your position.

You mentioned hunting pressured geese in Rochester? from what I have been told and correct me if I am wrong but geese stay there ALL YEAR. Geese do not live on ND potholes year round, so if birds get pressured they move on, its a fact. The problem lies in trying to quantify what pressure is. Since it is an unmeasurable arbitrary term, no one can me certain to what the right amount of "pressure" will move birds out. Nor can we claim that every instance of birds moving out of an area is due to pressure, all we can be sure of is that it does exist. I can say this from observing 15 or so years of bird migrations in a single area. Birds used to hold on small potholes for several weeks, now its one week. With more food and more water birds moving to other areas seems counter intuitive to natural survival if there was not a additional factor or two involved.

Your argument about "Evolution" is directly tied to PRESSURE, and EXPOSURE. The more and more decoys spreads birds see, the more and more they will learn, when we remove the birds that like to commit hard the first time, we are removing the less wary birds naturally. So to say its harder because of evolution of hunting is in fact stating that we as hunters have made it harder on ourselves by pressuring these birds.

Another thing that is overlooked a lot is the length of season in ND as compared to other states. In the northern states unless you hunt along a river or reservoir which is few and far between in ND, yours season pretty much last 5-7 weeks. (Im not including early goose). Now in other states like you are saying ie where they have pressured birds, guys are hunting an entire season, which is like 75 days or something by law if im not mistaken. That would we nearly 11 weeks. So in "pressure" states you get an extra 4-6 weeks to shoot waterfowl. So people that do not have that option are rightfully upset that their opportunities are being limited. Why does no one seem to understand this? I have talked to many a guys that come up and hunt for two weeks and then go home just to START their season.

The biggest thing I think is, residents get upset at the decrease in their hunt quality, they understand that it is still better than almost anywhere in the country, but should that make it ok for the quality to go down????? For anyone hunts these so called way more pressured birds, do you wish there where more guys hunting them or less?????? Then shots are thrown at NR's being the problem or this and that being the problem.

Then the fun starts when a non-residents comes and tells residents to stop complaining because they have it way better than them! BLah Blah Blah. Ludicrous. External people should never be telling internal people on how to conduct there business, you want a say move to were you want a say. But at the same time, residents hunters need to realize that for the survival of the sport the way it has been, the need for freelance hunters is great!! If they are limited in coming to ND the non pay to play hunt voice will be diminished and guides will begin to take more and more land.

This is getting real old all the finger pointing. I feel the real downfall of waterfowl hunting has been the loss of the casual hunter. Used to know 20 or 30 different people that you would see out every so often now they dont hunt at all giving the increasingly limited access to land and competitive nature of the sport.

http://www.legis.nd.gov/fiscal/biennium ... xecsum.pdf Oh AND ps. North Dakota Fiscal Budget Revenues estimated over $3 billion for next biennium, so to say that the what $3 or so million that ND gets from NR licenses is the single most important money is pretty funny


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## Zekeland

> 5% of all the birds that migrate to ND from Canada may have experienced a hunter of have been shot at before they get to you guys


Are you for real??

Do you know how many NR's hunt SK? How about MB? Do you know how long the NR's stay up here and pound away for??

You need to give your head a shake :bop:


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## Excel4234

Congrats I'll throw you a bone on your rebuttle Mr.Dakota I'll take your word for it and your little hypothesis about the season being shorter for nothern states makes no sense at all and I don't see what you are trying to get across and man I didn't realize how tough you guys have it up there, god only knows how people can even kill anything below SD border..., you just keep whinnin about NR's going up their and hunting in your state, god only knows a ****** humpin a doorknob can shoot birds in the Dakota's.I never mentioned anything about Rochester or geese, and yes I do know, I do also know that the number birds taken by hunters at least in your providence which I have hunted near the city of Brandon amounts to about a grain of salt compared 2 whats up their, throw me some numbers on the amount of birds summer up their and nest up there and compare it to the amount that is estimated to be harvested by both canadians and NR's get some numbers involved, i through 5 percent out their, I don't know exact numbers like that off the of my head, it would be nice tho.


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## Rick Acker

Back to reports. Lot's of snows & blues around North East...Some migrating. Lot's of blacks. Most of the bluebills have left the main lakes. Few other divers left. Fair amount of field feeding Mallards with some migrating out! This is going to be a big weekend...If we can make it out with the pending storm.


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## Chuck Smith

nryan:

Some facts on Rochester geese.



> Three Categories of Geese in Rochester
> 
> Based on information that we obtained from the DNR, there are three different categories of geese in Rochester.
> 
> Migratory Geese
> The migratory geese are in Rochester in the September through February time frame. Migratory geese in Rochester number between 20,000 to 35,000 at their peak in November of each year. That range has remained fairly constant since 1970, but was considerably lower prior to 1970. The highest peak was 40,000 in November of 2005, but the peak numbers for 2000 through 2004 were considerably lower. Migratory geese are federally protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. None of the steps either agreed to be undertaken or discussed by the City Council will have any direct impact on the migratory goose flock.
> 
> Molt Migrants
> According to the DNR there are approximately 3000 young adult "molt migrants" in Rochester during the summer
> 
> Resident Geese
> According to the DNR, there are between 1,000 to 2,000 resident geese that reside in Rochester on a year round basis. This number has been increasing between 10% to 20% per year, despite recent changes in hunting regulations to permit an earlier hunting season in SE Minnesota. At the current rate of annual growth, the resident goose flock may double every 6 to 7 years if steps are not taken. Not that long ago, the number of resident geese in Rochester was in the 200 to 300 range.


http://www.rochestermn.gov/departments/ ... gement.asp

So Rochester MN Hunters hunt the migration and have to fight tooth and nail. Plus you have to realize and most hunters know this is that geese will eat shoots or grasses. So try finding a field to hunt when the geese can land on any golf course, soccer field, baseball field, football field, new developement in Rochester. So the geese don't leave city limits. So again....pressure or the concept of pressure is well known my people in this area.


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## nryan

Oh I was not trying to say that you don't see the pressure. I have heard many of the frustrating stories of seeing thousands of geese but not getting any to decoy. I was just using it as an example as to some of the differences in pressure in different parts of the country.

I guess my point there was that pressure affects birds differently in different parts of the world. From my observations in ND, birds will leave an area completely, from what I have been told by others is that others parts of the country birds will just find different fields or feeds that are safe, not an entirely new area. And yes I understand that this is not the case with every flock and every bird. But it just shows that no matter where you are, ND, MN, AR ,Canada, pressure has an adverse affect on hunting waterfowl. And to say that one area has more than others, is a totally bias statement and has nothing but arbitrary opinions to support it.

Now if we could just figure out how to quantify pressure so we stay below that threshold that makes geese wary.........


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## Chuck Smith

nryan,

I agree pressure is different in all area's....but....

Some from MN understand pressure but they are like me and don't see how pressure affect birds or makes them leave an area. Like I have stated in my area in MN the birds see constant pressure....Rochester and Mississippi river. But they don't boogey out of the state unless weather moves them. Not hunting pressure. Plus what people I know in ND and SD tell me when hunting pressure is high the birds don't boogey out of state. So I am not calling anyone liars by any means. I am just don't believe that "pressure" is the main cause. Like I have stated before.... weather, lack of food or water, eating out a field of grain, not much waste grain in fields anymore, pressure or seeing decoy spreads for a long time, etc all play factors in bird movement. Not just "pressure" like many want to point the finger too.

Now two ND residents on this thread mentioned how after the 1st week or so the hunting got really tough.....how was the water levels in the area? Did the birds move to bigger body's of water? Also was the harvest ahead of schedule in these areas?? If so would that not concentrate large numbers of birds because they can find cut fields. So birds are not getting in big concentrations until they are getting ready to head south.....ie weather. So finding the "big feeds" could be difficult to find. See I just bought up things that didn't have to deal with pressure at all and would effect birds.

Then like someone else mentioned about posted land or lack of unposted land. Posted land or lack of easy access (not knocking on doors and just hunting unposted land)....that makes more people fighting for these spots and will seem like the area is getting run over by hunters. But yet could the birds just have moved to a hidden pot hole on posted land....WHo knows?? Also please don't start to blame NR for land being posted because it is slob hunters all types is one reason why land is getting posted.

Plus Duck hunting is popular again. The reason why is because it is easy and user friendly. What I mean by that is you can get a group of friends all set up decoys and scout. Then you can all sit out in the spread and BS, fool around, etc. Then when the birds come get quiet and call. Unlike deer hunting, turkey hunting, etc. You have to be silent in stands, can't screw around and give each other a hard time, etc as easily. Alot more kids or young adults are hunting ducks and geese. I don't know any data but just this is what I am seeing.

But again sorry for hi-jacking this thread. The migration is on....get them before this storm or winter closes most of the state down.


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## BlakeHelmick

Whoever says pressure doesn't affect the way birds migrate, is wrong. The things these birds see day in and day out cause them to leave by the thousands! Most people dont realize that when these birds leave, there are thousands also coming in. I have decided you can no longer use the average same old spread. 1 or 2 mojos don't work anymore in my area of ND. I either use zero, or ten+. You also have to remember that even though we get a lot of idiots that come In from other states, we have a lot of idiots within the state. Some of my neighbors are the perfect example as the two or three times they go out they either sit in a ditch, or try to jump. You guys must remember that we are all in this together. Making new friends and having a blast. We shoot a ton of birds every year, but it's not always the number of birds that equals the success in the field. We can b1tch and moan all day about pressure, but there are enough birds for everyone and if you work hard enough for them you will be rewarded.


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## Excel4234

I said that the amount of hunting pressure from a growing number of non-residents hunting in ND can't be one of the main reasons why residents are shooting or seeing less birds. But no definitley pressure makes an impact on all living things. look at the differences their is in the amount of birds you see and hear of getting shot on a public hunting ground that does not allow hunters to hunt past 1pm from any state marked spots or ground, compared to the amount of birds people report seeing and hear of getting shot on public waterfowl hunting ground that allows people to hunt all day. The public ground that doesn't allow afternoon hunting will consistently hold twice as many birds, and shoot a significant higher amount of birds than that reported or observed from the ground that allows people to hunt all day. This is because the birds on the time regulated public ground still have a sense of security and a place to roost because that presense of pressure is gone by 1pm, so the ducks returning or the new ones arriving in the afternoon don't get bumped right back off the area water they were shot off or were that pressure was present a few hours earlier. In my opinion I wish all state regulated land for waterfowl hunting had this rule of no hunting after 1pm, it would make the overall hunting much much better as whole, there would be a more consistent steady migration, and it helps prevent the birds from getting so educated. unfortunatley 3/4 of duck hunters don't understand this or realize this and would never be in support of this idea because. It's a shame because the positive effects would be noticed in a fairly short period of time.


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## nryan

Ok, so sounds like we all agree on the pressure thing just want to say it in our own way.

Now on to the NR's causing the more pressure or not, it is an impossible thing to prove, One cannot prove that they cause nor can your prove Excel that it is not the main cause of people not seeing or getting as many birds. Who and what causes the birds to leave is mostly opinion based. What I and others had observed over the years was less and less local people hunting and more and more people from other states came into north dakota. So wether warranted or not, NR's automatically become the first target if things are different. Now in order to continue keeping places like the dakotas and canada great waterfowl places, we as hunters need to be working together to keep land accessibility open. Take all this negative vibes and turn them into creative ways to keep lots of private land open to hunters.

Stop arguing over who is right and who has the right to hunt which land and this and that cuz quite frankly unless you own land, then you have no right to hunt anywhere, it is a privilege that should not be taken for granted.

On a lighter note, totally wish I could go hunting this week, sounds like birds will be hitting the fields hard in prep for the big push out this weekend.


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## Maverick

> Some from MN understand pressure but they are like me and don't see how pressure affect birds or makes them leave an area. Like I have stated in my area in MN the birds see constant pressure....Rochester and Mississippi river. But they don't boogey out of the state unless weather moves them. Not hunting pressure. Plus what people I know in ND and SD tell me when hunting pressure is high the birds don't boogey out of state


Again..you are comparing MN hunting to ND....apples to oranges...Read Excels reasoning why you don't see your MN birds leave. Then take a minute and put it into perspective! What your friends are telling you is WRONG! Depending on where they are in the state they may not move out of state but they do move to a different area! In my point...I am relatively close to the border...hence me saying they move out of state! THIS IS WHAT I SEE HERE IN ND, NOT MN, OR HEARSAY!



> Now two ND residents on this thread mentioned how after the 1st week or so the hunting got really tough.....how was the water levels in the area? Did the birds move to bigger body's of water? Also was the harvest ahead of schedule in these areas?? If so would that not concentrate large numbers of birds because they can find cut fields. So birds are not getting in big concentrations until they are getting ready to head south.....ie weather. So finding the "big feeds" could be difficult to find. See I just bought up things that didn't have to deal with pressure at all and would effect birds.


The water levels were the same as they were on the opening weekend! No they didn't move to bigger water (I know how and where to scout the area I have hunted for 30 years)...they moved south...HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS! THIS IS WHAT I AM PHYSICALLY SEEING! I am not making up scenarios to help prove my point like you are! Oh my god...harvest schedules...now your just pulling for a life line here....does it matter how much gas was in the tanks of the farmers who were harvesting the fields? WOW...what's next? Fields were harvested as they crops came down on schedule..STATE WIDE! OR were they different in YOUR AREA? Here is another question for you? WHY DO DUCKS FLY WHEN YOU DRIVE BY THEM IN SLOUGHS NEXT TO THE ROAD? Is it weather....nope...hunting pressure! People driving by and blazing at them. Otherwise they would stay and water all day lonog. The birds that fly as you come over a hill have been presssure to the point they don't want to be shot at again. How long do you think the birds will stay on the road slough until they move out? Will they just stay and take the constant harrassment or will they leave! I think you know the answer to the question....atleast I hope you do...



> Then like someone else mentioned about posted land or lack of unposted land. Posted land or lack of easy access (not knocking on doors and just hunting unposted land)....that makes more people fighting for these spots and will seem like the area is getting run over by hunters. But yet could the birds just have moved to a hidden pot hole on posted land....WHo knows?? Also please don't start to blame NR for land being posted because it is slob hunters all types is one reason why land is getting posted.


 This is a "What If" statement and holds no goround in my book as....wait for it....THE BIRDS MOVED SOUTH! My contacts south of the south dakota border has (for the last 10 years) called us when they see the movement comes in (usually the 3rd weekend of waterfowl hunting....ITS A PATTERN THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING HERE FOR YESARS! You just don't want to accept it as so!....and really after hunting my area for 30+ years don't you think I would know where most pot holes are! I mean this isn't like I come to this spot for a couple weeks a year (like you do). I am here year round. I know what, where, and how many is always out there! Living here has me at this advantage. Hidden pot hole...please...don't insult my intelligance!



> Plus Duck hunting is popular again.


More than you know...and see!!!


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## Chuck Smith

> The water levels were the same as they were on the opening weekend! No they didn't move to bigger water (I know how and where to scout the area I have hunted for 30 years)...they moved south...HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY THIS! THIS IS WHAT I AM PHYSICALLY SEEING! I am not making up scenarios to help prove my point like you are! Oh my god...harvest schedules...now your just pulling for a life line here....does it matter how much gas was in the tanks of the farmers who were harvesting the fields? WOW...what's next? Fields were harvested as they crops came down on schedule..STATE WIDE! OR were they different in YOUR AREA? Here is another question for you? WHY DO DUCKS FLY WHEN YOU DRIVE BY THEM IN SLOUGHS NEXT TO THE ROAD? Is it weather....nope...hunting pressure! People driving by and blazing at them. Otherwise they would stay and water all day lonog. The birds that fly as you come over a hill have been presssure to the point they don't want to be shot at again. How long do you think the birds will stay on the road slough until they move out? Will they just stay and take the constant harrassment or will they leave! I think you know the answer to the question....atleast I hope you do...


This whole paragraph shows how you are looking at this with blinders.... How are the water levels this year compared to last year....5 years ago...10 years ago....20 years ago...etc. How have farming practices changed in those same time frames.(BTW no til practices... :thumb: trying to talk farmers in my area to look at this more closely).... But look in the fields you hunt...is there more or less waste grain?...i hope you know the answers to these or at least I hope you do.

Then with the crops coming out early...HMMM....Again looking at this with blinders. When you have been hunting for 30 years you should have some idea about this...when crops are coming out....early in the season....do many birds all go towards that nice first cut of grain... YEP. So now with more fields opened up earlier than normal does that mean all these birds have to fly to that cut field? No they have many choices to choose from. When I was out hunting about 3 weeks ago. There was more crop out than I have ever seen at that time of year. Locals said the same thing. Then talking to local hunters they all said they have not seen that big feed of ducks in one field. But many smaller feeds. But yet seeing many many birds typical of that time of year on the water, big water, etc. They say at this time of year they typically see big feeds but are only seeing smaller feeds.... Hmmmmm.....so but two and two together means it could be seeing smaller feeds because more fields are open for them to feed on and they are not competing or going to one field like other years. The birds are not grouping up.

Yeah I understand about the road hunters....just like if you see a pheasant and just tap on the brakes those suckers are gone. But my question in regaurding water levels this year...is this the only water in the area for these birds or did those bird that are scattering because of the truck driving by not move out of the area did they just move to different water???

Many things play a role in why animals move. You are saying pressure. I am saying about 10 different things.....water levels, water available, food levels, food available, weather, internal clock telling birds to migrate, habitat, pressure to a certain extent (all types of pressure from hunting and non hunting/shooting at them), etc.

YOu can't just point at pressure is the only factor in why birds move.



> What your friends are telling you is WRONG!


How do you know??? Are you hunting where they are....again I can say to you as to what you are saying to me..... YOU DON"T KNOW BECAUSE YOU DON"T LIVE THERE. See that is what you keep saying to everyone who speaks against what you say. I am going on knowledge from these people talking to me...and no this is not just talking with them once a month. But about once a week.



> Depending on where they are in the state they may not move out of state but they do move to a different area!


 So sometimes they move 1 mile to better water/more water....to a feed field or better habitat. Again who knows....move to posted land or not posted land. OR just move. I understand how some people don't want to put on 100 miles from home to go hunt. I get that.



> THE BIRDS MOVED SOUTH! My contacts south of the south dakota border has (for the last 10 years) called us when they see the movement comes in (usually the 3rd weekend of waterfowl hunting....ITS A PATTERN THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING HERE FOR YESARS!


So it has been happening years....like 10, 20, 30, 40? Let me guess the time frame... Mid Oct....oh wait what happens in all of the northern states at this time.... Weather changes from warm to cooler, NW winds pick up, barometric pressures changing, hours of day light gets less and less, internal clocks on birds start to think of warmer weather, birds migrate!!!..... Also Again weather changes!!!

nryan


> Now on to the NR's causing the more pressure or not, it is an impossible thing to prove, One cannot prove that they cause nor can your prove Excel that it is not the main cause of people not seeing or getting as many birds. Who and what causes the birds to leave is mostly opinion based. What I and others had observed over the years was less and less local people hunting and more and more people from other states came into north dakota. So wether warranted or not, NR's automatically become the first target if things are different. Now in order to continue keeping places like the dakotas and canada great waterfowl places, we as hunters need to be working together to keep land accessibility open. Take all this negative vibes and turn them into creative ways to keep lots of private land open to hunters.
> 
> Stop arguing over who is right and who has the right to hunt which land and this and that cuz quite frankly unless you own land, then you have no right to hunt anywhere, it is a privilege that should not be taken for granted.


Good post and a great way to look at it. Here is one thing to also think about....what has been happening the past 5 years or so in ND in regaurds to habitat??? It is getting less and less. Look at sloughs are getting drained, plowed under, etc. Ducks are having less and less habitat. You add that to drought and other aspects birds won't stick around but only a few days before finding green pastures.

Now these next statements are not to be anti-ag in any ways. But BLhunter is very pro farm.....what are many farmers doing....ditching, draining, tiling, plowing, etc. why wouldn't they it is their land and they need to make a living. But what does that do to ducks? Then people state that they don't want what happens in other states to happen in ND....good for you. But do you realize you will have what happens in other state if you don't do something about habitat!!

Edited to ad this link: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=100677

Plus to start to talk about pressure and say that is why other states don't have good hunting....nope. I told you what I see...lots of pressure and birds don't leave the state because of it! The main reason why they leave is lack of food, water freezes, weather pushes them out, it is time for them to head south, 
etc.


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## Chuck Smith

> I said that the amount of hunting pressure from a growing number of non-residents hunting in ND can't be one of the main reasons why residents are shooting or seeing less birds. But no definitley pressure makes an impact on all living things. look at the differences their is in the amount of birds you see and hear of getting shot on a public hunting ground that does not allow hunters to hunt past 1pm from any state marked spots or ground, compared to the amount of birds people report seeing and hear of getting shot on public waterfowl hunting ground that allows people to hunt all day. The public ground that doesn't allow afternoon hunting will consistently hold twice as many birds, and shoot a significant higher amount of birds than that reported or observed from the ground that allows people to hunt all day. This is because the birds on the time regulated public ground still have a sense of security and a place to roost because that presense of pressure is gone by 1pm, so the ducks returning or the new ones arriving in the afternoon don't get bumped right back off the area water they were shot off or were that pressure was present a few hours earlier. In my opinion I wish all state regulated land for waterfowl hunting had this rule of no hunting after 1pm, it would make the overall hunting much much better as whole, there would be a more consistent steady migration, and it helps prevent the birds from getting so educated. unfortunatley 3/4 of duck hunters don't understand this or realize this and would never be in support of this idea because. It's a shame because the positive effects would be noticed in a fairly short period of time.


I wanted this to have its own response. I agree pressure affects animals. They turn nocturnal....only feed once a day....etc. I also agree with you on only hunting public lands until 1 or noon would have a huge positive effect. That would make them better and not get pounded. That is a great idea....also how about more refuges or rest areas? I know people will say no way because then the land around it gets leased....but then the birds will fly further out to feed but yet still come back to roost in that spot. Look at my area in MN....Refuges on the Mississippi river....which gives me my prospective that birds don't leave because of "pressure". Same with Rochester MN....refuge area's. Some things to think about.


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## Lucky Lab

I am amazed that the moderator has not stopped this. For the last 13 years I have traveled to ND meet great people and have also seen a large increase in pressure mainly do to the internet posts. Yes we have to knock on more doors than 13 years ago but whoever said it would be easy. I grew up on the Missouri river in Iowa now the birds migrate much farther west. We all are outdoorsman and should show each other some respect. We honor our time in ND as our groups time together are some of the best times of my life 13 years laying in a blind next to my son thats what it is about


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## Chuck Smith

> We honor our time in ND as our groups time together are some of the best times of my life 13 years laying in a blind next to my son thats what it is about


Llab....that is 100% correct. :thumb: :beer: :bop:


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## pigeon123

This is great. It is their state and land so they can do as they wish I would think. Or is this not how it works anymore. Why would locals want more restrictions to releive pressure when they can just cut out the NR's and restrict them. I would assume their is enough ducks and geese for the R's to enjoy since it is their state????? We should be thankful for them letting us come for this long, but at some point the have to take care of themselves????????????????????? :sniper: 
They are already taking care of us in economic measures and I use us lightly in a sense???????????? What else do we need them to do and still demand more??????????? I personally wan to thank the people of ND and SD for everything and appreciate their efforts...


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## Chuck Smith

> This is great. It is their state and land so they can do as they wish I would think. Or is this not how it works anymore. Why would locals want more restrictions to releive pressure when they can just cut out the NR's and restrict them. I would assume their is enough ducks and geese for the R's to enjoy since it is their state????? We should be thankful for them letting us come for this long, but at some point the have to take care of themselves????????????????????? :sniper:
> They are already taking care of us in economic measures and I use us lightly in a sense???????????? What else do we need them to do and still demand more??????????? I personally wan to thank the people of ND and SD for everything and appreciate their efforts...


Piegon....when ever did i say what to do with the land and they should do things.... never once.

I said it is a great idea on what someone else brought up and on that note also suggested the idea of refuges. Did I say...you need to do so and so....you need to do this.

Not once in this thread did *anyone* bring up anything about restricting....it was talking about pressure is all it did and by who or whom some people think is the cause of the pressure or the reason for the pressure.

But again this thread was originally about *migration* and how it is on.... go get them! Sorry for the hi-jacking.


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## 9manfan

Lucky Lab said:


> I am amazed that the moderator has not stopped this.


It's been a good debate about the hunting up in ND, it hasn't got out of hand, very good points made by both sides ........although it was a migration report...

Thinking this weekend could be very good......


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## Maverick

> This whole paragraph shows how you are looking at this with blinders.... How are the water levels this year compared to last year....5 years ago...10 years ago....20 years ago...etc. How have farming practices changed in those same time frames.(BTW no til practices... trying to talk farmers in my area to look at this more closely).... But look in the fields you hunt...is there more or less waste grain?...i hope you know the answers to these or at least I hope you do.


This reply only shows how you are trying to prove appoint by making up your own scenario, without reality of what's actually happening now. Not yesterday! Why would I care what happened 5 years ago...10 years ago 15 years ago...Agriculturally. Why do I care about farming practices when I already told you the farmers are using the same farming equipment they bought in the 90's( I am not talking about the Red River Valley here). No till doesn't happen MUCH in my area as farmers love their field tilled and hate it when people drive over them. In my area it has not changed much at all (again, this is not the RRV we are talking about here)! Regardless of the header a combine has on it....it still leaves crop behind! Hell I have been turned down for some really good hunts because the farmers told me they like having birds eat all the left over in their fields. A header on a combine is an irrelevant and pointless topic! Once birds have feed out a field they have no use for it and go to another field to eat...seeing as they have more option out there!



> Then with the crops coming out early...HMMM....Again looking at this with blinders. When you have been hunting for 30 years you should have some idea about this...when crops are coming out....early in the season....do many birds all go towards that nice first cut of grain... YEP. So now with more fields opened up earlier than normal does that mean all these birds have to fly to that cut field? No they have many choices to choose from. When I was out hunting about 3 weeks ago. There was more crop out than I have ever seen at that time of year. Locals said the same thing. Then talking to local hunters they all said they have not seen that big feed of ducks in one field. But many smaller feeds. But yet seeing many many birds typical of that time of year on the water, big water, etc. They say at this time of year they typically see big feeds but are only seeing smaller feeds.... Hmmmmm.....so but two and two together means it could be seeing smaller feeds because more fields are open for them to feed on and they are not competing or going to one field like other years. The birds are not grouping up.


As soon as you take off your blinds you start to see what I am saying here! Yes...birds always find the first fields....and so do hunters (pressure)! Early spring planting means early harvest...elementary really! So what does this have to do with the third week when the birds are gone from the area...and the only thing that has changed is the amount of hunters. Hunter #'s go up....bird # go down...why is that....weather....enter the phrase "COME ON MAN"
Another question...Why do we have our NR friends come out the NR opener?...Here I will answer it for you...because the birds are here then and gone the next week due to hunters in my area hunting them ALL WEEK and straight through the weekends. You need to realise that the birds in my area are hunted from NR opener striaght through the end of November! If you don't believe me...I have said time and time again that I will take you out and show you what I am talking about! You still haven't taken me up on the invite! So if you want to start seeing what I am seeing...feel free to drop me a line in Oct. and I will show you! 
Birds have always had the option of feeding other fields...in the past 5 years...10 years...15 years...your point is moot again! The difference is with an influx of hunters THEY DON'T GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO START BIG FEEDS ANYMORE (as they are being pushed all over the place by hunters (NOTICE I DIDN"T JUST SAY NR) sorry but it seems I have to point things out to you!). WHY IS IT?....



> Yeah I understand about the road hunters....just like if you see a pheasant and just tap on the brakes those suckers are gone. But my question in regaurding water levels this year...is this the only water in the area for these birds or did those bird that are scattering because of the truck driving by not move out of the area did they just move to different water???


OK...I got to point out your blinders here. If those birds were not shot at would they move or stay in the slough next to the road. I know from experience that those same ducks don't fly, just coming over the hill in July! They swim away from the shore line but see no harm in a passing vehicle! Now come October and anytime a vehicle drives by, they are air born before you get half mile to the slough......make up what ever scenario you want....I AM SEEING THEM LEAVE ! AGAIN......I AM SEEING THEM LEAVE. I do check out the other sloughs around (AGAIN I HAVE HUNTED HERE FOR 30 YEARS SO I KNOW WHERE ALL THE SLOUGHS ARE, YOU KEEP FORGETTING THIS. THEY DON'T JUST GO TO SOME SLOUGH THAT JUST SHOW'D UP 2 WEEKS AGO)



> Many things play a role in why animals move. You are saying pressure. I am saying about 10 different things.....water levels, water available, food levels, food available, weather, internal clock telling birds to migrate, habitat, pressure to a certain extent (all types of pressure from hunting and non hunting/shooting at them), etc.


I agree that many things play a role in bird movement (which is what we are talking about here). You are only assuming that I am blaming it all on NR. In which I have stated that WEATHER is the #1 factor especially when things freeze up! You are getting caught up in my EXPERIENCE of MORE HUNTER=LESS BIRDS....go back and reread my second post after you chime in about NR pushing all the birds out! I SAY...WAIT read it again...."ADDED NR PRESSURE" in which I was meaning ..(Sorry if I have to point this out but you were not picking up on it) 1) resident pressure already exists 2) NR pressure already exist 3) More NR entering my area ADDING MORE PRESSURE TO AN AREA ALREADY HIGH IN PRESSURE!....EQUALLING LESS DUCKS! Pretty simple really!



> YOu can't just point at pressure is the only factor in why birds move.


AGAIN...I am not saying its all NR pressure...your just taking as such! I am saying that ADDED PRESSURE TO ALREADY HIGH PRESSURE MEANS LESS BIRDS....please remove blinders!



> What your friends are telling you is WRONG!
> How do you know??? Are you hunting where they are....again I can say to you as to what you are saying to me..... YOU DON"T KNOW BECAUSE YOU DON"T LIVE THERE. See that is what you keep saying to everyone who speaks against what you say. I am going on knowledge from these people talking to me...and no this is not just talking with them once a month. But about once a week.


From what you expressed to me....its just south of me! So what your hearsay is, and what I am living, are 2 different things! Here is your own hypocrisy....am I saying to you how your hunting is MN? No.... You keep coming up with some kind of an excuse as the why my experience is wrong! Your telling me that what I am SEEING is not real...kind of like Achmadinashad saying the holocaust wasn't real! It's all just made up like pressure on birds! Right...just dosen't happen because you hunt REAL PRESSURED AREA'S! Can you see how you are being a hypocrite in the paragraph. Plus living here DOES HAVE ITS ADVANTAGES over someone who lives in MN acting like he knows it all in my area in ND!



> Depending on where they are in the state they may not move out of state but they do move to a different area!
> So sometimes they move 1 mile to better water/more water....to a feed field or better habitat. Again who knows....move to posted land or not posted land. OR just move. I understand how some people don't want to put on 100 miles from home to go hunt. I get that


How do you know its only a mile....why can't it be 40 miles...see how you are picking scenario's to prove your point! Now as for your silly comment about not wanting to put on 100 miles for scouting...its just that! I would think you would know me better than to think I am internet scouter as I do hold you to that amount of respect! So you can take that comment and do away with it! I know the game...been doing it along time now! That's damn near insulting! uke:

Pressure can be quantitative....example...take away all NR hunters and guess what happens to my hunting! I think you know the asnwer...or atleast you should! :bop:


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## Maverick

Have a good weekend everyone! I am officially going deer hunting...until I fill my tag! :beer:


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## Excel4234

Maverick said:


> Have a good weekend everyone! I am officially going deer hunting...until I fill my tag! :beer:


Heard that, thats what I'm doin the next two days until that front gets some of the birds down here in IL, good talk guys, ill let you know how the weekend goes, goodluck!


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## Feathers

This site should consolidate all of the threads into two topics....roost busting and NR vs Res because every thread gets highjacked into those two topics anyhow. You guys never cease to amaze me. Have fun arguing on the intranets, I'm going hunting. :beer:


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## duckp

Any truth to the rumor the migration is on?


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## blhunter3

Saw birds flying a mile high today at work.


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## prairie hunter

Hell there were lulls in the migration 30 years ago. Areas void of ducks ... drive 20 miles areas full of ducks. People in your field first vs. beating people to your field was common in snow goose country - well on weekends anyways.

20 - 30 years ago there was no August Canada goose season, not even a September season. A few crane hunters and more 
sharptail grouse hunters (most road hunted) than anything. Ducks saw little disturbance until October. I have traveling through ND the past couple Septembers before resident opener I have seen large areas void of ducks that traditionally would be thick with gads, wigeon and pinnies in September.

The mix of residents and nonresidents has changed, but total hunter numbers have not all changed all that much. Number of nonresident waterfowlers in ND have been flat (even shrinking) over the past 10 years or so - but I agree more of those coming here seem to stay longer and hunt harder.

If you look at SD the past couple years ... the hunting has not been hot and heavy right after ND opens their season. Canada is more the place to be ... maybe they head north not south.


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## hwdeuce

figured i would reply to the topic 
i have seen multiple upon multiple flocks of ducks,geese and swans flying high and south all 
day here in central MN im guessing the season is just about over even with 3 weeks to go


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## DUCKWHISPERER

I too have been seeing Swans Migrate...Its on Boys...This is the weather Ive been waiting for! Good Luck to all...


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