# British Labs - Which Breeder?



## Aythya

I am planning to purchase a new yellow lab puppy as soon as I can find a British lab from a reputable kennel. I am considering the following kennels and wonder if anyone has experience with any of these breeders.

Duck Hill Kennels - Robert Milner

Wildrose Kennels - Mike Stewart

BritishLabradors.com - Dennis Anderson

Or if you have purchased a British lab from another good kennel I would be interested in hearing about your experience.

Thanks.


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## Chaws

Why is it that you're set on a British bread lab? Where are you located? Is shipping a pup something you're willing to pay for?

When shopping around for breeders, make sure the parents have all of their health certs. Eyes, hips, elbows, CNM, and a new test that's out there now and only takes about 21 days to get results, EIC.


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## USAlx50

Ive been around a handful of the ones from dennis andersons place. They have all been nice looking dogs with nice temperaments but I wasnt overly impressed by any of them once the birds start hitting the ground.


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## Aythya

My previous dog was a British lab and I like them because they are bred to have different traits, e.g. smaller size, calmer. I have owned enough dogs in my life to understand there are no guarantees on a dog but I have also had enough "hot" dogs.

The lab I had before the British lab came from a reputable breeder, good references, checked all the certifications, etc. I had numerous conversations with the breeder about what I hunt, how I hunt, what I was looking for in a dog, etc. He was a good dog but probably should have been trained by a pro. That is, a dog with traits that are probably great for field trials but don't work for someone like me who is a real amateur trainer.

I would rather not have to ship a puppy for a couple reasons, including costs. I have lived in Bismarck for over 20 years and I am still surprised at how few kennels there are that have labs. Not sure why but we can't even get a retriever club going here. There have been a few attempts but they have withered after a short time.

Chaws - what is EIC?

USAlx50 - what do you mean when you say "I wasn't overly impressed by any of them once the birds start hitting the ground."


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## taddy1340

I spent some good time with Tom Hamilton of Bracken Fen Gundogs (Biloxi, MS). Here's his site: http://www.brackenfen.com/

Kim from KT British Labs in SW Minnesota is a great guy with good dogs too. http://www.ktbritishlabs.com/ (His dogs compete in Hunt Tests and have good upland experience as well)

Mike


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## Aythya

Thanks Mike!


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## BROWNDOG

> What is EIC??


There is a thread in the forums on this with some links posted. Very interesting and something to research anbd consider befor buying a lab puppy..


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## bigboy56073

Definaly make sure the breeder gets the EIC test done on the dogs he breeds. I, unfortunatly, bought a dog a year ago that tested "affected" with the EIC gene recently. I don't want anybody to have to see a dog that they put in countless hours training turn out to be just a pet. The test gets sent in to the UofM and 21 days later you know the results. My test costs about $100 by the time I was done paying the vet fees and shipping.


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## Aythya

For those who don't know what EIC is, and I did not until I researched it, the acronym stands for Exercise Induced Collapse.

A blood sample is analyzed for a specific gene marker that indicates presence of the gene for this condition. Cost at the U of MN for the test is $65.00. I would assume that any vet can collect the blood sample and send it to the U of MN for the test.

Never heard of this condition before but also don't want a dog that has this gene. Any breeder I check out will be asked about this trait.


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## USAlx50

Aythya said:


> USAlx50 - what do you mean when you say "I wasn't overly impressed by any of them once the birds start hitting the ground."


They retrieve but many didn't leave the line with much enthusiasm or mark very well. I suppose that might be nice for a minimum maintenence hunting retriever to take that trade off for a "calm" dog. I would just like to know that my dog will do whatever neccesary to get that bird instead of run out there, look around a little and come back to the handler empty handed.

Then again, my dog is not exactly a fire breather and the one time he broke today he continued to run through 100% continuous pressure on the ecollar all the way to the goose :-? There's always tradeoffs.


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## daveb

Aythya,

I would be happy to show you my dog out of Anderson's kennel. I live in Mpls, if we live near each other. Keep in mind that when you send him on a mark he generally lopes off the line and then lays down and takes a quick nap. None of that really matters since he can't mark anything, anyway...I guess :lol:


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## USAlx50

Dave, I honestly didn't know your dog was out of andersons kennel! :lol: Remmi's (the white one) got a little zip to him. And he minds you pretty damn well for never having the collar on him.


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## daveb

No problem at all, Brody. I was hoping you would get a laugh out of that one.


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## Aythya

daveb,

I am in Bismarck, ND. Bring your dog over this fall. As every bird I shoot at drops in one shot and is stone, cold dead before it hits the ground, your napping dog will work just fine.

But seriously, do you have a dog from Andeson's kennel? A friend here has a little female from Anderson's kennel and it seems to be a good dog. I don't think he uses his dog much on ducks as he is mainly a pheasant nut.


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## daveb

Yep, I have a dog from them. Just pm'd you with some stuff.


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## USAlx50

Aythya said:


> daveb,
> 
> I am in Bismarck, ND. Bring your dog over this fall. As every bird I shoot at drops in one shot and is stone, cold dead before it hits the ground, your napping dog will work just fine.
> 
> But seriously, do you have a dog from Andeson's kennel? A friend here has a little female from Anderson's kennel and it seems to be a good dog. I don't think he uses his dog much on ducks as he is mainly a pheasant nut.


Dave has a nice dog, didn't know where he was from.


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## Chaws

KT British labs from Elbow Lake, MN has some nice dogs. I've seen a few first hand and they've got a nice breeding program that doesn't breed for the show ring, they're pure meat dogs of which some have some nice AKC and HRC titles.


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## Aythya

I called KT kennels and had a nice conversation with Kim Olson about his dogs. He is one of the kennels I am researching in my search for a new lab.


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## Cooper4406

Definitly look into Wildrose Kennels. I have a yellow from them and will be getting another this December. My yellow is almost a year old now and I had him go thru the 8 month program there. He did great when we took him out this season! Give Mike or Cathy (his wife) a call. They will answer all your questions. They really know a lot about their labs. Wildrose is worth looking into.


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## Chaws

If you buy a Wildrose pup, you're buying a name. Definitely not worth the mark up.


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## DuckBuster

I've been hunting over Wildrose dogs for years, and our group hasn't had a bad dog yet. In fact, I like the 3 we're hunting over so much , I just went and bought one myself.

Chaws- Did you get burned by a Wildrose dog or something? You seem a little hostile towards them. When I researched dogs in the Midwest area, most were in the same price range as Wildrose. Some a little more, and some a little less. The only thing I didn't like about Wildrose, was that it was 15 hours away from me...


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## daveb

It almost sounds like somebody's a little down on Wildrose :lol:

I don't know anything about this Stewart guy or his operation. I do know that he has some of the finest working retriever stock in the UK in some of those bloodlines, as many kennels do. A buddy of mine tried to sway me into getting a dog out of the same British kennel he went thru, of which is mentioned in this thread, in order to save $500 or $600. That's about $40 to $50 annually over the lifetime of the dog. I say go with whatever outfit you're most comfortable with after doing your homework...then cross your fingers cuz there's no guarantees.


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## DuckBuster

Perfectly said, Dave.


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## Cooper4406

> Chaws- Did you get burned by a Wildrose dog or something?


Im thinking yes!


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## TPL

Here's some more info on EIC. For a dog to develop and suffer from EIC it must have both genes of a specific pair mutated. If it just has one mutated gene of the two it will most likely be unaffected. In fact, it would be a very rare case where one mutated gene would cause EIC symptoms. Of course, one gene is donated by the ***** and one is donated by the stud. Point being, if you don't plan on breeding a dog, it shouldn't be a problem if that dog carries one affected gene. Also, if find a stud that you absolutely love and it is a carrier of the mutated EIC gene, if it's bred to a clear ***** you shouldn't have a problem and in fact you may have a pup that is clear. It is very important to know the status of parents of a pup you might be interested in but being a carrier of one EIC mutated gene is not a death sentence for that breeding or line. With careful consideration and testing, it's possible to bred the mutation totally out of a line.


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## TPL

Check out Double T out of Sylvia Kansas. I have a dog out of there. Haynes has several styles of labs. Fast, hard chargers, to mellow, methodical workers. I actually have a small, super charged male that is very, very calm in non hunting situations. britlabs.com


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## TPL

Just a quick note on Wildrose. Several years ago, I had a deposit on a pup down there. Several of the litters I deposited on didn't have enough pups to get to my ordered pick. After about three of those situations, I picked two more litters to deposit on. I got a call sometime later and was informed my pup was ready, the problem was that they changed the stud from their original breeding list without informing me and I declined the pup. Long story short, I subsequently asked for my deposit back and was refused. I don't know who was legally right or wrong, that's just my experience.


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## USAlx50

Quite the puppy mill they have going down there.


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## Chaws

I've seen a couple wildrose dogs in person and yes, they're nice looking dogs, a bit on the slow side for my tastes and a couple could mark a big white balloon. But beyond that, the price they pay for pumping out as many dogs in a single year.... seriously, ask some of the best producing breeders of performance labs in the United States and they will say that they're running a breeding program with a name attached, not a prove to me the dog is worth its price and then we'll breed it.

There are many National Field Champ dogs in the US that have littermates that couldn't cut it in the big dog games. Just because the heritage shows titles and such, you could get stuck with a bad dog. Being dealt the cards like that sucks but it happens. That's why I highly recommend a quality breeder that has titles on their breeding dogs and aren't bred every time the ***** comes into season. It's not health for the dogs, they're just being used as a brood *****.

Just taking a look at their site, yes, they have some nice titled stud dogs and a couple titled females, however no where on there do I see any hip or eye certifications. Also from my knowledge, Wildrose doesn't test for genetic issues in the labs such as CNM and now available EIC.


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## Chaws

HOLY shat! 33 litters planned from now until the next year!!!! I'm curious with that many puppies around, is there ever any chance of the switcharoo from the litters? One escapes and gets in with another crew of pups and vice versa? Where's the socialization when there are that many puppies around? Obviously it's not all at one time, however there is a period on their planned breeding where as many as 4 litters are due around the same time! Just figure even 8 pups per litter, 32 puppies all the same age that all need to be socialized and kept separate from each other.

Even at $2000 for a pup most people will never see the parents work, that's not much money left over for staffing that kind of ciaos!


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## keithf

I went to their website before see the last post about Wildrose with the number of litters. I had seen their site before and remember the amount of litters the have planned.

http://www.uklabs.com/mating_calendar.pdf

Just seeing this calendar really does shows you that it is MONEY! If anyone else had the connections and a SH level dog and got the PR. Which I would take, but I still could not for any amount of money produce that many pups Their are many more well accomplished trainers and breeders than WILDROSE. I personally am not a PRO trainer but Collar conditioning and basic OB with Force Fetch produces a gentlmens gun dog not a kennel name and cash. IF your looking for a smaller dog look at the breedings. My BLF is out some top FC's etc.... and her normal weight is 60lbs and looks like a lab not a dwarfed lab. Anyone that has been around alot and I mean alot of labs can see the difference in them. We have a guy in our training group that has a Brit out of Double T and the first time I saw his dog I asked him and I was right on a hunch.

Good luck its your money.


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## daveb

keithf said:


> Anyone that has been around alot and I mean alot of labs can see the difference in them. We have a guy in our training group that has a Brit out of Double T and the first time I saw his dog I asked him and I was right on a hunch.
> quote]
> 
> Wow, you knew that British Field Trial Labs are generally smaller than the American bred ones? Impressive. :lol:


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## keithf

:roll: he wanted a smaller dog! You don't have to go to a brit for a smaller sized lab. Just to clear it up a bit more; Just by looking some of they do have a different appearance, not just their size.

Pick away some more............


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## USAlx50

From what ive seen there isn't much of a size difference between brits and US stock. Its more in the build then overall size.


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## Chaws

It's pretty common these days with the field trial breeding lines to have males and females be in the 50-65/70lbs range. I have a female that is in the Riptide Star/Barracuda Blue lines that is about 55lbs summer running weight and I've been putting some weight on her to handle the colder temps of hunting this fall and she's probably around 60lbs now.


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## daveb

keithf said:


> :roll: he wanted a smaller dog! You don't have to go to a brit for a smaller sized lab. Just to clear it up a bit more; Just by looking some of they do have a different appearance, not just their size.
> 
> Pick away some more............


I was just joking...that's why I put that little smiley faced thing in there. I know a guy that has a female out of a MN British kennel and she's tiny. 45 lbs I bet. Looks kinda weird when you're used to seeing larger ones. I've seen others that are more like we're used to, sizewise. And you guys are right that they have a different appearance.

Brody, have you guys shot every goose in ND yet or did you leave some for us?


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## daveb

keithf said:


> :roll: he wanted a smaller dog! You don't have to go to a brit for a smaller sized lab. Just to clear it up a bit more; Just by looking some of they do have a different appearance, not just their size.
> 
> Pick away some more............


I was just joking...that's why I put that little smiley faced thing in there. I know a guy that has a female out of a MN British kennel and she's tiny. 45 lbs I bet. Looks kinda weird when you're used to seeing larger ones. I've seen others that are more like we're used to, sizewise. And you guys are right that they have a different appearance.

Brody, have you guys shot every goose in ND yet or did you leave some for us?


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## USAlx50

Dave- Haven't been at em in ND for about a week and a half  School load ended up being worse then I have had in the fall.

Leave tomorrow for 9 days in Sask


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## daveb

That wouldn't suck. Have fun.


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