# poor little .410 bore...



## mr.trooper

I got bored tonight and did some figuring. People say that the .357 magnum is FAR better to hunt deer with than a .410 bore. If you look at the facts, it would appear at least to my feeble mind that such is not the case. Let me elaborate...

With a .357 magnum, even with the heaviest 200 grain bullets loaded to 1270'ish FPS (MAXIMUM loads) your going to be generating around 725 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. Now, I've got several boxes of Remington 3" .410 shells that are advertised at 1300 feet per second with an 11/16oz payload. NOW, if you take 11/16 ounces, and convert it to grains, it comes in at a little over 300. Scale it down, say its 300 even. now, that bullet is within (under, actually) tolerances for the load that is being pushed 1300 FPS...IN OTHER WORDS, a 3" .410 bore is capable of pushing a 300 grain slug at 1300 FPS in factory loads. Now, when one does the unit conversions, you find that a 300 grain projectile moving at 1300 feet per second generates 1125 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle; comfortably above the 1,000 foot-pound THEORETICAL minimum for the clean taking of deer sized game.

Thus, I contend, that 3" .410 bore slugs are actually MORE powerful than a .357 maximum load. By 400 foot pounds of energy no less.

Now, lets get into the fray on the effect on game...what is more effective on game: a smaller bullet generating LESS energy, or a larger diameter bullet generating MORE energy? YOU DECIDE. I for one, think this CLEARLY proves that the .410 bore, with proper ammunition in more than capable of cleanly taking deer sized game.

Now all this being said, the 410 is not my first choice for deer. I'll go for my 12 gauge thank you. BUT I do have many friends who would like to hunt, and DONT own there own shotgun. So, in the event they decide to come with me, ill hand them the 12 gauge and reach for the .410 bore.

What is the lesson here?

#1) DONT underestimate ANY cartridge

#2) SHOT PLACEMENT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN HAVING A MONSTER CALIBER.

Cheers :beer:


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## Militant_Tiger

Is this the second or third time that you have posted a thread just defending the .410 slug? Give up the ghost, you are turning into OSOK.


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## mr.trooper

No, its only the first time.

This was actualy a much delayed responce to a statement in my previous post :lol: I hadnt done the research to respond at that point, and i promptly forgot about it for the durration.

Actualy, the main purpose of this post isnt to toute the .410 (as OSOK toutes the A.I. Cartridges...) it was actualy ment to emphasize that MARKSMANSHIP is more important than what Caliber something is, and the initial post SAYS SO (look under the lessons learned part *hint* *hint*). The .410 was just a convenient example.

The first thread wasnt DFENDING the .410 bore, it was to inform those who had called my friends poachers for using the .410 bore (claiming it was illegal in Indiana...). i promply posted a thread showing the references, and proving that it was indeed legal for deer.

the second thread was asking what 3" slug people thought was the best buy, Full brass silver bear, or another brand (forgot the name).

So actualy, this is only the FIRST post iv made defending the .410 for use on Game.

Sorry to burst your bubble Tiger :beer:


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## Bore.224

Mr Trooper no need to defend yourself you are right and being right is the best defence. To take the story a little further Ill bet a 12GA foster slug at 50 yards or maybe even 100 will do the work of say a 375 H&H mag.


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## Gohon

I wouldn't argue with you that a 410 slug could kill a deer but under what circumstances and how has to enter the picture. Comparing a 410 slug to a 357 magnum is apples to oranges. In the first place you most likely are using data of the slug from a long barrel, probable 22 inches at least, and the 357 magnum from a short barrel, most likely 7-10 inches. Put the 357 in a long barrel and the 357 leaves the 410 in the dust. However staying with your comparison, the 200 grain bullet you use as a special loaded round for the 357 is considered a target match bullet, not a hunting load. Most manufactures I know of limit the 357 to 180 grain bullets for hunting with the exception a few that make 183, 187, and a few 200 grain hard cast gas checked bullets that for the most part are loaded in rifles.

The main weakness in your thinking is the 410 slug will shed half it's energy at 50 yards. That brings it down to 560 fps at this distance where as the 357 magnum, using your figures will drop to about 520-530 FPE. A dead heat at this range. At 100 yards the 410 is down to about 300 or less with the 357 dropping down a hair over 400 FPE if that much. Not to mention the 357 is flatter shooting and will have much better penetration than the soft 410 slug. So unless you intend to stick the barrel in the deer's ear or keep the shots in the 30 yard range it is really no comparison. Remington doesn't list anything for the 410 in slugs on their web site except the 2-1/2 slug at 1/5 of a ounce so I'm not sure where to even find the 11/16 3 inch slugs but I assume they are made.

So I agree with you a 410 slug can take a deer but I disagree with you on how you get there. Having said that here is a intresting article you might want to read. http://www.4-10.freeuk.com/mwslug.html

My lessons learned here?

#1) Don't overestimate any cartridge.

#2) Yes, shot placement is more important than the caliber used.


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