# MN fishing legislation



## dleier (Aug 28, 2002)

Senator retaliates over hunt, fish limits

The Associated Press - 02/15/2004
ST. PAUL

A Minnesota senator is retaliating against states and provinces that restrict hunting and fishing opportunities for visiting Minnesotans.

Sen. Pat Pariseau, R-Farmington, has introduced a bill prohibiting nonresident anglers from fishing the first 14 days of Minnesota's season if their state or province excludes nonresidents from parts of fishing and small-game hunting seasons.

Pariseau said the bill was specifically aimed at North Dakota, which recently passed a law prohibiting nonresident waterfowl hunters from hunting the first week of its season. Also, nonresidents can't hunt the first week of North Dakota's small-game season on state-owned lands.

The restrictions, along with increases in North Dakota's nonresident hunting fees, have prompted cries of discrimination from Minnesota hunters. An average of 30,000 nonresidents, half from Minnesota, hunt ducks and geese in North Dakota.

"I've heard from a lot of people who are upset," said Pariseau, whose husband and children hunt waterfowl in North Dakota.

North Dakotans say the restrictions are needed to stem the tide of nonresident bird hunters.

Minnesota annually sells about 27,000 nonresident fishing licenses to North Dakota anglers. South Dakota also has a three-day residents-only pheasant hunt, so the proposal would affect the 8,000 South Dakotans who fish in Minnesota.

Minnesota sells about 300,000 nonresident fishing licenses out of about 1.6 million total.

But Pariseau's bill also promises to upset Minnesota resorters who rely on out-of-state fishing revenue.

Gary Moeller, co-owner of Ballard's Resort near Baudette, said he has five large groups from Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois and North Dakota booked into camp during the first two weeks of walleye season.

"The first two weeks of our season this year, I would say at least 90 percent of our occupancy is all nonresident," Moeller said.

North Dakota residents who own cabins in Minnesota also would feel the impact. Todd Benson of Grand Forks, whose family owns a cabin on Twin Lakes near Mahnomen, said he fishes in Minnesota almost every weekend during the summer but only twice a season in North Dakota.

"It's just another example of pulling the states farther apart and putting fences around each state," Benson said.

Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty and North Dakota Gov. John Hoeven have discussed the matter. And Minnesota Department of Natural Resources officials have met with their North Dakota counterparts.

DNR officials prefer to negotiate a settlement quietly, but Pariseau said she wants to give the issue a higher profile.

"I think by putting this bill on the table, it will get the ball rolling to change things," said Pariseau, who has requested a Senate committee hearing on her proposal.

Pariseau's bill isn't the only piece of Minnesota legislation aimed at nonresident outdoors people. Another bill would charge a nonresident archery deer hunter the same price paid by Minnesota archery hunters in that state or province. Another bill restricts nonresident trappers to take game only on land they own in Minnesota.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Yeah - Our current administrations (Govenor & Director of G&F) will probably buckle under & have complete Reciprocity :******: Wouldn't that be what so many want :roll: ........... :******:

I'd move in a Heart beat


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

You're right Fetch....might as well move to Minn. then.No benefits to living here for me.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Let Minnesota do what they think they have to do just so they don't tell us what we are suppose to do! Hunting and fishing are two seperate issues.


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## Blake Hermel (Sep 10, 2002)

Thats FINE with me. I would rather fish Devils Lake anyways :lol:


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Well put blake.


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

I read that in the Star Tribune my folks brought back from the cities this weekend.

Talk about petty retaliation. Ms. Pariseau is opening an in-state can of worms that ND has had to deal with since the last legislative session. Guides/Resort Owners vs. Resident Fishermen. I don't envy MN in this situation.

As for me, I'm glad I have the opportunities to fish for some great species in ND all around my hometown!


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## Bubba (Aug 23, 2003)

I think it's a good thing that she opens that can of worms. I've read here that no one fishes in Mn anyway. Cabin owners from ND would rather fish their own lakes. First 14 days wouldn't make a difference, (though the resort mentioned it is filled by 90% NR) Not trying to start a fight BUT! You all howl about the G/O's driving up land prices and limiting opportunity. Now, anyone that lives in N. Minnesota knows that the wealthy NR's that buy cabins, etc (yep, a ton from N.D.) and are able AND willing to pay ridiculous prices, are driving the prices up for the residents making them untouchable by the common man. Seems like the same cause and effect in different recreations. The only problem I see is, IT'S PROBABLY TOO LATE TO CHANGE ANYTHING FOR THE BETTER. But, we should get our do-do together and protect ourselves AND our neighbors from the real money threats to our land and access. Anyone do a search lately and see what land prices and hunting opportunities are in Marshall County Iowa since the kid down there shot a possible world record buck? Oh yea, check and see where the people are from that are buying it all up also. I don't think we really need to worry about each other as much as we'd like to think.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

The difference here being that MN proposal was brought about by a state politician and ND original caps proposal was brought about by that crazy group called BIOLOGISTS!! That is the difference. ND was trying to do things because the resource cannot handle the pressure. If MN thought the resource cannot handle the pressure, then by all means, restrict those that need to be restricted. I personally love to fish MN just because it is closer for me. I would applaud your state if it was doing any restrictions based on biology. It, however, is being petty and trying to restrict people out of spite!! :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Guys MN will do what they will do. When we try and justify the proper appoach we took it just adds to the fire. The real issues are what still needs doing and how it will be approached this coming fall and next winter in Bismarck.

I have had many emails from different peopel I have corropsonded with from MN and IA WI and even SD that see our approach as the right approach. I have had fewer that oppose the changes, but most are looking out for themselves not the future.

Let it drop and worry about the things we can affect instead of those we cannot.


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## 870 XPRS (Mar 12, 2003)

Ron Gilmore said:


> Let it drop and worry about the things we can affect instead of those we cannot.


The best thing i've read all day Ron.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

I have stated before where I stand on this issue.
Minnesota can have their 3 lakes and 9,997 sloughs with the slot limits and jet skis buzzing every five seconds. It is what is known as the Minnesota walley chop Jet ski wake that is.
I would take our 130,000 acre "ditch"(as some soties call it) up here in Ramsey county any day.
Pike, walleyes, perch, and white bass, what more could a fisherman ask for.

I don't know why some of us even worry about this crap. I have never left God's country (ND) for hunting or fishing for one reason, it doesn't get better anywhere else, for me anyway.
Let the nieghbors to the East whine and moan, they are just ticked because they had the best of both worlds and now that we as ND residents are reserving that for ourselves they are bitter. 
Whoop tee doooooo!

cootkiller

P.S.
Isn't Minnesota the state that elected Jesse Ventura governor. Not quite known for their rationale thinking.
Isn't that also the place that the Hershel Walker trade took place, uff da.
Though named after a ND City, wasn't the movie 'Fargo' actually about Minnesota--OUCH!

Only Kidding boys, gotta have some fun sometimes right.


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Smallmouth and Largemouth, but other than that, not much else.

Summed up nicely.


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

djleye,
so the laws prohibiting nonresidents from hunting state land for the first week of the season, and prohibiting them from hunting for the first week of the season were proposed by biologists in order to protect the resource? how about splitting the regular small game license from the waterfowl license? you can actually say that with a straight face? 
you say that you wouldnt want to fish MN anyway with all the slot sizes rules etc., why do you think we have those rules (which apply to residents as well) but to protect the resource from overharvest. furthermore, what are you all whining about if MN fishing is so terrible anyway? i mean we only have 3 lakes and 9997 sloughs, so why not fish all the water ND has to offer. you know devils lake, sakakawea, and umm...oh wait thats right, thats all!! 
if 30,000 nonresident hunters is destroying your chance for hunting oppurtunities, imagine what 300,000 nonresidents are doing to MN oppurtunities to fish. so i applaud your desire to stay home, now if only you can convince the other 26,999 of your fellow north dakotans to do the same, we'll all be happy!!
and, if "your" resource is so valuable, why is it that at the peak there were only a little over 30,000 nonresidents coming to hunt, but "our" worthless resource draws 10 times that many? 
i think you all are just a little upset your actions may finally bite you in the butt!!! so as MN hunters have been told to do for some time now, QUIT YOUR WHINING!!!!!!


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

No whining here. I will stick with fishing our non-existant lakes and Sak and DL once in awhile.

The only time I will venture to the "Wrong Side of the Red" will be for Cat's Incredible but since that is the Red, is it still considered fishing MN?

BTW, there are more people that fish than hunt in the US. Maybe that has something to do with the numbers? :roll:


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## holmsvc (Nov 26, 2003)

First off I think that mn has great fishing. Raising license cost to $50 is ok. But not letting us fish for the first two weeks is a bunch of crap. There a lot of people from north dakota that own cabins in mn that pay alot of money in taxes to mn. *This site is also called nodak outdoors not mn outdoors, so I don't feel to bad about complaining about non residents.*


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

callmecrazy(the name seems to fit perfectly)
That is EXACTLY what I said I do. I don't fish MN, I don't need nor want to.
I don't hunt in Minnesota either, there is nothing to hunt compared to what ND has to offer.

One of the reasons for this limitation on NR's is I think that some of the people here are tired of being the playground for wealthy people from other states, i.e. Minnesota. (Not necessarily my opinion but what I see and hear)

Now that there is something being done by some residents, you that were using this playground are mad. 
But why did you need to come to our playground and play with our ball, because you broke all the toys on your own playground first.

Here's to North Dakotans that are fighting to keep our playground at least partly to ourselves. Maybe once in while we will ask a few friends to come and play, but not so much as to ruin the resource.
I still think that there is room for the guide and outfitters services in ND and I think that at the current numbers without anymore increases both sides can be happy.
What is wrong with if it ain't broke right now, don't fix it.
Maybe I am wrong and maybe I am right, only time will tell, so I wait and see what wisdom I did have.

cootkiller
P.S.
hey callmecrazy,
Are the same people that count your 300,000 nonresident fisherman the same ones that count the attendance at Viking, Twins, Wild, Timberwolves, and NDSU Bison games. IF so then I think it is safe to say that that number is way, way, way over the actual number.

skol Vikings skol.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

White bass and perch are rough fish


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

> White bass and perch are rough fish


Pet them from head to tail and they will not chafe your sensitive skin :lol:


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

one other thing, if the true motives for the restrictions on nonresidents are as all of you have stated, to protect the resource, then why the $50 fee for nonresident snow goose licenses, when there is no extra cost for a resident? isnt the purpose of the spring hunt to reduce the destruction these birds are causing? if you really wanted to benefit the resource, you'd be welcoming every hunter you could get to help with the problem!! but hey, at least you dont count it towards the 14 days right?


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Stevepike - I just about sneezed coke on my keyboard from your "rough fish" comment - I am still laughing my butt off!


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

one other point i'd like to make. how did the law prohibiting spearing by nonresidents from states that dont allow nonresidents to spear, protect your resource? and how can you tell me it wasnt aimed directly at MN?seems to me ND has already been guilty of the exact thing MN is being accused of now. i geuss its another way to show MN is only following the ND example.
and where is the biological data tha was used to make these decisons? why is it never used in any of your statements. all i here about are guides, outfitters, escalting price of land, outsiders tying up land etc etc etc. here absolutely nothing about the biological facts, because there are none to support these restrictions.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Thank God! Finally some real whining by an ND over the MN proposal. Up to this point I've heard a lot of folks complaining and relishing over the ND whining, but I hadn't seen much, if any, actual whining. With holmsvc's post, now all you guys hoping and looking for a pound of flesh finally have a live one.

Up to now, the ND comments have largely fallen into two camps: 1. "So what, I don't fish MN"; and 2. "I fish MN and if that's what you guys think is best, go for it, but.......". And the "but" is it would be really nice if your legislators would focus on improving matters at home for all MN sportspersons rather than levering for opportunities elsewhere for the traveling MN sportspersons. Is that whining?

In my mind, an equally logical re-retaliatory response for ND would be to prohibit the residents of any state who prohibit a ND resident from fishing part of a season open to its residents from fueling their vehicles in ND from 4:00 pm -10:00 am on a weekend day from September to January. What? Exactly. The NR contribution to the "problem" of ND sportspersons having to wait at gas pumps is comparable to the contribution ND and SD fishermen present to the overall MN fishing "problem". Boy, such a fueling ban would be a great "gotcha" and may put some serious hurt and leverage on some of those who supported the MN fishing proposal, but wouldn't amount to a gnat's *** in terms of making anything of substance better in ND.

If you want to stay apples/apples with the ND hunting restrictions and actually better things in MN, give residents a preference in the lottery for or a preferred time of the bear hunt. Or, if the stats show that certain res's are having to wait an intolerable number of years for turkey licenses in certain zones for certain periods, make them res only. Or the Rainey thing - never been, but if it's an absolute zoo, beyond what most folks think is reasonable pressure for a fishing situation, and there's a high concentration of nonres using it, cut down the nonres participation through days, number of licenses, etc. These would create new and better the quality of existing opportunities for potentially all MN sportspersons - at home. And good for MN on the prairie chicken thing. This is a limited resource and I'm glad MN sportspersons get an exclusive crack - seems reasonable under the circumstances. Not sure about the spear-fishing thing, but there's probably a similar rationale there.

The current MN fishing proposal is "feel good, but do nothing productive." Not whining, just arguing with the logic, or lack thereof.


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

cootkiller,
on what facts do you base the assumption that all nonresidentsa are wealthy people? why not keep your laws to target guides and outfitters to those people, not nonresidents in general.
and i think it would be safe to say the MNDNR uses the same methods of keeping track of license sales as ND g&f does. comments like that only show your closed minded ignorance!
Dan,
you are right, this may be apples and oranges, but what makes minnesotas oranges less valuable than ND's apples?


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

cmc, a ticket to a queens game may be more "valuable" than a ticket to a Bison game. An MBA from the Carslon School of Business may be more "valuable" than one from UND. MN's social benefits may be more "valuable" to its less fortunate than offered in ND. All apples/oranges to ND hunting.

If MN wished to "respond" to the ill effects of ND's efforts to improve hunting for ND residents in ND, I would have expected MN to do the same - not get off task and attempt to retaliate for the benefit of a relatively small percentage of MN sportspersons, somewhere else no less.


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## H2OfowlND (Feb 10, 2003)

ND is targeting G/O....but who are their main customers?? NR's...reduce the NR customers and also in turn reduce the guides. ND is a special place in the hunting world, we want to keep it special. Not everyone can enjoy it at the same time. We don't want to be like everyone else, we want to stand out and let everyone see how we manage and help save our special resources. We are an example to other states on how it should be done,how to protect something that is being lost all too fast. If you love to hunt here, stand with us to save it so you can keep coming back, because once its lost, it will never come back.

H2OfowlND


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

djleye: the original HPC and/or HPC 2 may have been based on biologists models but any legislation passed in the '03 ND legislative session was based purely on politics and maybe some political compromise.

The new zones protects the Bismark bureaucrats backyard?

The one week closure of plots may spread out hunting pressure but has no positive biological impact on the resource.

H20fowlND: I agree, but look at NR deer licenses and you will see that the guides will get their cut first. The big ones are here to stay unless mother nature can change their resources. Based on this years snow fall, looks like 2004 fall will be a banner year for G/Os in ND.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

H2O
If your target is the GOs, the way you are going about reducing NRs will not reduce the GOs.
Those who can afford GOs will not flinch at higher license fees.
Those who use GOs probably only do so once or twice a year so limiting time wont bother them either.
I dont know if there is an answer to how to go about ridding yourselves of GOs but Im pretty sure that essentially keeping more of the NR, average Joe freelancers out wont do it. In fact, it may end up meaning more business for the GOs.
If it really isnt GOs you are after and simply anybody without a Nodak license plate, then what you are doing is perfect. Worked on me.


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

i agree this does absolutley nothing to deter guides and outfitters. in fact the proposal i heard to hold a lottery for licenses and zones is going to hurt no one but the little guy. guides will just make sure they have land leased or bought in all 3 zones. and unless you are allowed to apply as a group, it will hurt the average joe. i hunt with my father, my uncle, and my cousin. what happens when only a couple of us "win" a license, then end up with different zones? we can hunt alone? how stupid!! i feel 100% the g/o bit is just an attempt at "political correctness" so ND can pretend to not be 100% against NR's.
does anyone have the total # of licensed resident waterfowlers in ND?


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

I guess I can't really understand why you quit hunting ND Bert. You have only been allowed 14 days to hunt waterfowl since 1975. Nothing really changed except the addition of 2 small zones, that by the way were drastically drying up last year. The average NR upland hunter hunts 4.7 days in ND. That's about 2 weekends. You can still hunt every weekend of the season....it'll just cost the price of a new license every two weeks. 
I know this hurts the MN guy a little that lives on or close to the border but then I can't spearfish in MN which has the resources just 40 miles away, I can't hunt ducks on youth day with my sons as it's only for resident youth (straight from DNR) I have licenses for both of my portable fish houses at $33.00 each every year, which I don't have to do in ND. I'm not complaining. It's just the way it is. But I have a hard time justifying what you are saying when there are restrictions on NR's in MN as well. Like you mentioned in a earlier post, you may have to buy your own land to have a nice place to hunt, fish, etc. ND has such a place. You may have to pay a little more to enjoy the hunting but haven't you done just that by purchasing your own land in MN?


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

field hunter,
i'm glad you brought up spearing. the spearing laws in MN were designed to protect against overharvest. why was ND's spearing law enacted? TO RETALIATE AGAINST MN. a person from WI can spear in ND, but i cant because i'm from MN? how is that not exactly the same thing everyones whining about MN doing?
as for fish house licenses, i have to buy one too and i live in MN, you just pay a little more for yours. as for the rule prohibiting NR's from leaving houses overnight, it was because of people that abbandon their shacks at the end of the year. i have no problem with the cost of a license in ND. i have a problem with being shut out of public land my license dollars helped pay for. i have a problem with having my opener later than a residents. i have a problem with the zones only applying to NR's. i ahve a problem with the new upland season.
in MN if you get a license, you are allowed to hunt the same seasons as a resident. the onl difference between resident and non in MN is cost of license.
and as for the youth hunt in MN, why would you want to bring your son here anyway? i mean from listening to all the talk about MN outdoor opurtunities, dont you know this is a barren god forsaken place? there are no birds, deer, fish, furbearers, of any kind. thats why everyone goes to ND :roll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Our Biologists at our GNF came up with a plan that based the number of hunters on the resources available.I will listen to them EVERY time over a non-res. complaining they don't get the same benefits as a resident.

Yes...we SOMETIMES get to hunt sooner than you do.Yes...we can hunt state lands for the first week.Yes...our license is lower than yours...Yes....you have to put up with zones.....There has to be some benefits for being a resident...you can solve all those problems by moving here.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

cmc, 'bout 35k resident waterfowlers the last few years.

cmc and bert, the biggest problem for all non-fee bird hunters is the o/g. The biggest problems for all ND res non-fee bird hunters is o/g and just plain too many hunter-days, the latter even more so the case as the former increases and habitat decreases. No o/g, we still can't have 75,000 duck chasers without chasing them out of the state. Some o/g (or god forbid more o/g), and we can accomodate less non-fee hunters as more bodies are competing for a lesser amount of productive ground, again made worse as we trend drier.

Not easy problems, no easy solutions. With o/g's likely here to stay, HPC is still the closest thing to the perfect model for setting reasonable NR waterfowl caps in that many of the factors are adjusted for automatically in varrying conditions.

cmc, didn't realize the ND spearing law read that way, but your right, that must be direct retaliation to MN. ND said we no speary there, you no speary here - apples/apples. Current ND law says a youth from a state that provides small game licenses to a ND youth at resident price may purchase a ND small game license at a resident price. Bill last session would have eliminated the reciprocity, and it failed since it wouldn't encourage other states to give preferred small game opportunities to ND youth - apples/apples. The difference between that and MN's current fishing proposal is the apples/oranges thing again. MN says, we (about 25% of total bird hunters) no hunty there some of the time, you (2.46% of all fishermen) no fishy here some of the time - apples/oranges.

Again, why not the bears or turkeys or the Rainy where it would actually make a difference at home rather than lever for opportunities elsewhere?


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Field Hunter,
You said you cant understand why I quit.
Here is my reasoning and part of it is practical/financial and part of it is out of principle.
I hunt (hunted) ducks and upland birds in Nodak. 
The 14 days for waterfowl you speak of never used to be an issue as that is about all the time I could afford out there given the hunting I do in Minnesota. 
Still have 14 days but...
No youth day (not an issue for me but for some)
Cannot hunt the first weekend.
Cannot hunt the same zone the whole time.

As far as the upland goes:
That used to be a full season which meant that I could hunt ducks and pheasants when it was convienient at the same time or take a late trip out for pheasants. 
Now I have to either do them at the same time or pick one or the other.
Anyway you cut it, my NR license package to hunt upland and waterfowl has basically doubled in a matter of one year.
With Minnesota not being as terrible a state for hunting as some would make out, I just couldnt justify it anymore.
As to why I bought land and regarding the money spent on it:
It is the difference between paying rent on an apartment for 20 years or making the same sized house payments for the same time. It is called equity and security and independence.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

cmc and ph-Read my original post again. It says that our ORIGINAL concept was thought of by biologists. HPC. And cmc, where did I say that I don't want to fish MN. I said I love to fish MN. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: I take my kids there all the time to fish. I know I could catch bigger fish on a longer trip in ND but that isn't always conducive to having an 8 and 3 year old enjoy the trip.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

djleye,

So would you be for the state of Mn only allowing a 14 day non-
resident fishing license. How about increasing the non-resident
bow hunting fees to match the state of ND non-resident fees.


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

Why does everything have to be the same?

Do you support the gay marriages in SF too?


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## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

Can we stop using numbers and stats please? You can make statistics do lots of things if you want them to. This is a horrible topic which will likely contribute to the downfall of what we all love, yet all I see is people pissing and moaning. North Dakotans get over yourselves. As a resident I am embarrassed by all the childish "Fine, I like North Dakota better anyway." If you didn't care, you wouldn't be writing. This is a stupid proposal by this lady, but we look stupid when people are throwing that crap out there.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Because of season length differences, the difference in the amount of pressure/competition most sportspersons would view as reasonable under a hunting vs. fishing scenario and the effects of that pressure/competition, and about a bazillion other differences, it's really pointless to try and equate general MN fishing to general ND hunting, UNLESS your point is leverage for MN sportspersons elsewhere instead of bettering conditions at home. MN, like ND, has some unique, highly desired hunting and fishing opportunities that NR's may actually impact to a material degree(never researched, but it wouldn't be hard). Would be nice, for the benefit of all MN sportspersons, if the focus was in that direction, rather than mixing concepts to justify and lever for opportunities elsewhere.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Stevepike, you are not even worth responding to. I am asking
Djleye a serious question. I know Djleye both deer hunts and
fish in MN, I would like his input on my question. Like it or not
changes WILL occur in MN and yes many are due to changes 
that took place in ND. Its called the human factor! The two
I mention to Djleye is the next round of bills being introduced
into the Mn senate.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

PSDC- I don't bow hunt anymore and haven't for a while. I don't even know what the fee is for nr in ND. I know it is upwards of 150 for me to bow hunt MN if I start again. It is also upwards of $150 for me to slug hunt two days in MN. I never said I was for a 14 day license for fishing MN. I said if it is the best thing for the resource then I am all for it. If the decision is based in biology, then I am all for it. I wouldn't like it but I am not a resident so there is not a lot I can do about it. Just like I don't like the opener being later this year than last. The point being I shouldn't whine unless I pay taxes in MN and live there. Good luck getting a 14 day restriction passed, the resort industry will never let that one pass.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Can't people understand we are aren't comparing the same things with hunting vs. fishing?? What is the solution, no limit of people so the quality of hunting is ruined?? I think the spearing law here stinks along with some other things, but you have to be realistic when looking at hunting. Last fall wasn't that great for waterfowl guys. Things are drying up in a lot of areas and there are more people competing for less land. Action is better than no action. As far as how ND spends the license fee money what business is it of yours?? I sure don't know what happens to my fishing license money in MN. One last thing on fishing quality in MN: how about cutting the limits on the fish. Why do people need six walleyes a day?? How about looking at your own backyard before telling neighbors how to run theirs.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Eric,
I disagree that Nodak hunting and Mn fishing arent comparable when it comes to NR pressure.
Both could easily be compared to snowmobiling in Montana or gold panning in California.
You are talking about a resource that a state has which others want to enjoy.
By the bye...Minnesota has dropped limits on many fish spiecies over the last few years and walleyes are on the list. Its the odd lake over here that doesnt have a slot limit now too. Why? Pressure.
Duck and goose populations will fluctuate according to ma nature. The Federal Govt. has a big say in what happens with limits and seasons accordingly.
Other than winterkill (which isnt that common on northern lakes) that isnt the case with fish.
You say that having too many people around hurts the quality of your hunting experience but Minnesota is just supposed to welcome one and all to fish here and control the mess by dropping the limits? Come on!
Tell ya what, if that is how the "biology" of it works then why dont you guys push for lower bird limits out there? For EVERYBODY!
If Minnesota dropped fish limits for NRs only, you would hear the screaming in Hawaii.
Ill bet you dollars to donuts that I have to deal with more NRs fishing here than you do hunters there. If crowding equals lower quality, you better believe fishing and hunting are comparable.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Eric,

I don't recall making any comments about what ND does with their
hunting fees? I think it's everyones business what a state uses the
fees collected either for fishing or hunting. Don't you agree. Once
again I asked the question to Djleye because one bill is already
brewing about non-resident bow hunting fees matching the fees
for that states non-residents fees. The second has been brought
up by several senators. I do agree with the limits, I am a true
believer of CPR for every lake. Look at the limits of perch in ND,
who in their right or left mind need that many perch?


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

PSDC the license reply wasn't referring to anything you said. Bert there are 10,000 freaking lakes in Minnesota and your going to tell how crowded it is. The lake we have a lake home on can be busy on opener but there is a whole lake and other spots. As far as limits I would love to see Minnesota go catch and release. I believe it has changed the quality of fishing in Canada. I still say you can't compare hunting and fishing(unless Minnesota starts leasing lakes) and this wasn't this brought up by a Congresswoman who's husband is bitter because he likes to hunt in ND???


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Why should it matter what the NDGF does with license fees??

The NDGF is a SELF SUPPORTING ENTITY. They do not receive funding from the state. I myself could really care less what they do with the money. In fact, raise the salary of all game wardens in ND. They do an excellent job.

Yeah, I once wondered myself why ND has such liberal limits on perch and crappies. So I asked a game warden. His reply was that most lakes in ND are subject to winter kill. So in essence, they would rather have us eat all the fish. Not sure I buy into this theory, but fish frys are always a good time.


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## Powder (Sep 9, 2003)

Eric, Do you hunt pheasants by Upham? You don't? Why not? If you know where to go there are birds there and if you put your time in you'll eventually get some. Nearly all of ND has some pheasants.

Same thing holds true with many MN lakes. Not all lakes are created equal.

Mott=Mille Lacs Lake

Upham=Juggler Lake

How many people are pheasant hunting in December out by Mott? Some, but not many. After opening weekend (just like fishing in MN) the majority of people do not come back. If it's okay to spread out pressure from opening weekend for hunting, why not fishing?


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Mott, the land of fee hunting. Most people don't go to mott cause they refuse to pay for birds. If you have ever been there before, ya know what I'm talking bout.

I can tell ya this, there are plenty of people who hunt pheasants in December. I am one of them. But like I said, I will never pay to pheasant hunt. So then my only option is to go somewhere else!

The beauty of ND is that each area of the state is good for some kind of hunting. Upham isn't renoun as ND best upland game spot, that is for sure. But waterfowl is a different story. Just like mott isn't the place to hunt ducks.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Eric,
Yes there are 10,000 "freaking lakes" in Minnesota. A thousand of them in the county I live in. Of that thousand that qualify as lakes, about half of them are fishable. Of those, some are better than others. Of those that are better, there are certain spots that are good fishing, some that are iffy and much of the lake not worth trying.
My favorite spot is the size of a living room and is no secret. With GPSs and depth finders, there are no "secret spots"any more. Now, toss in some jet skis and pontooners and what you have is a crowd. I live on a lake here in OT County so dont tell me that what I see out my back door is a mirage. 
For me, I catch and release about 50% of the time anyway and never keep more than I want to eat regardless of the limit. 
You say "who needs to keep 6 walleyes in Minnesota"? I say "nobody does". I also say "who needs to keep 6 ducks in North Dakota?"
I think the 14 days of duck hunting in North Dakota is fine but 14 days of fishing in Minnesota should be fine too. 
If all I have to do to get resident hunting rights in NoDak is to buy a cabin, Im looking for a realator out there tomorrow.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Seriously, nearly all of ND has pheasants??? We hunted for 14 years up by Upham and I don't remember ever shooting a pheasant, do you Chris??
How about after a tough winter?? Mott=Mille Lacs???? How much does Mille Lacs charge to fish the lake and how much area can you fish for that???? This whole bill is a slap in the face of resort owners in the state and doesn't do much except make me question the leadership in MN. The state has budget shortfalls so lets limit people that can participate in the biggest event the state has. On top of this ND people can just take the boat and go to a different lake for a couple of weekends, Devils lake, Waubay, Sac. Where are people going to go to hunt??? Now we limit fishing in ND for those two weeks also and then who wins. If Min. wants to raise fees fine, cut limits great, change some hunting regs. fine, but the fishing ban is pretty weak idea. Just my opinion now back to work.....


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

We end up keeping the six ducks because they are so damn hard to release. You have only one spot on the lake that can catch fish??? How many jet skis are out on the first couple of weekends??? Now jet skis and pontoons can't be out on the lake??? You also release fish half the time??? So how much do you fish if a lot then how can you justify keeping that many fish, what if everyone did???


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Realistically, if you don't live in a certain state, your opinion shouldn't and usually doesn't count. I say let MN do whatever they want. If they want to ban all NR fisherpeople, fine. But in exchange don't get mad when ND does the same.

In hindsight, ND's new laws are only following SD's example. Look at the 2 states once, a very strong correlation.

MN resort owners will NEVER let these bills pass. But like I said, you wouldn't hear me ***** if they DID pass.


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## smalls (Sep 9, 2003)

First, I don't understand why minnesota doesn't raise their fishing license fee. I jsut bought a SoDak fishing license and it was $61!!! I about pooped myself. 
I echo many of the things others have said. Minnesota should protect its resource, its economy and its residents. I know it isn't easy, but that's what DNR and government officials are paid to do, make tough decisions.

Second, all fall I read Minnesotan's complain that they can't find anywhere to duck or goose hunt without having someone set up w/in 150 yards of them. Many factors led to this situation (habitat destruction, large population, etc.) that are out of any of our singular hands. This is the reason we are acting in the way and at the time we are. We have already started slipping down the same slope and we don't want to end up in the same mud hole.

It has been said before and it will be said again. Hunting AND fishing are limited resources which need to be managed to prevent their destruction. Management is synonomous with sacrifice and we will sacrifice others' "rights" before we destroy our own.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Eric,
First of all, I could catch fish in a bathtub.
During the times of the year that it pays to get after em, I fish every night.
I can catch a boat load almost any night in June. I keep fish about 50% of the time during the month of June. During that time I only keep the fish that I want to eat. Translates to about 20 walleyes a summer. How many ducks did you kill last year?
My point is that I do catch and release. 
From what I have seen and my resort owner friends tell me, NRs catch and keep more than that a week and kill every damn one.
I challenge you to spend a week with me and see if Im not correct in my statements.
Jet skis? The vast majority are ridden by NRs and on the lake where I live they are from Fargo. Toons? Same thing.
You make it sound like since they arent fishing, they arent a pain in the ***.
Tell ya what, Ill send a couple hundred motocross racers over to Nodak during duck season and see if you dont *****.


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

Bert,

How is restricting NR fishing licenses going to eliminate jet skis and pontoons? I've never fished from a jet ski


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

You do not have to shoot 6 ducks do you? Some of us of have "caught and released" hundreds if not thousands of mallards in a single morning working the barley stubble. Having mallards landing with in arms distance of you is about as close to catch and release as you can get.

On a side note:

A limit of 4 ducks would ease pressure on the resource.

While many biologists agree that the duck limit does not greatly impact next spring's numbers, it does effect the amount of hunting pressure on the resource.

With a 4 duck limit:

Less waterfowl hunters would travel to hunt (or at least travel as often). Total number of waterfowl hunters in ND would decrease. Would the lower possession limit lower total days spent hunting? Not sure.

Less daily pressure on waterfowl, especially jump shooting. More people would reach limits quicker and spend time around the motel/camp rather than chasing entire flocks for the last bird.

Preceived quality of the hunt would improve for those that measure success their by limits. Limits quicker and likely easier to obtain.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

I guess if you guys dont read all the posts, I cant expect you to understand what Im talking about. 
The suggestion was made that Minnesota reduce limits on fish as a fix for pressure.
My suggestion was that if reducing limits were a fix for pressure then NorthDakotans should push for lower bird limits.

As far as the jerk skis go...
No you dont fish from them. Several years ago when they were less abundant, a few more fishing boats werent as big a deal as they are now... get it?

Last post on this topic because many of you either cannot, or dont want to understand.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

You are from MN and that is all some on this site see when you post, I found this out and learned my lesson Bert. They fired the first shot last season and aren't going to fix it and are willing to let it stew till '05, save your breath, you are making too much sense.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

I don't care if a person is from MN and I certainly don't look for someone to pick on because of where they are from. Every now and then someone starts spouting comments that I feel aren't justified so I will argue back. Take Bert for instance, this how many ducks did you shoot last fall is so stupid because I can't catch and release ducks. I certainly don't drive all over the state scouting, hotels, food, decoys etc to just sit and throw rocks at ducks. When they come in the decoys I shoot sometimes. Cut the limit on ducks sure I have no problem with that. The second comment about NRs keeping all the fish well here is another ignorant statement. I didn't keep one fish last summer, not one. Now there is a group of guys we call the Detroit lakes mafia. This are guys who have $1000.00 boats, and go to a lake they hear is producing fish and then keep everything that comes over the side. In some cases they go off the lake and clean the fish and come back. Also these lakes aren't yours so people can do whatever they to as far as jet skis etc. 
Prarie Hunter I think you are to something with the lower limits....


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

No....he's not making sense. If Bert does most of his fishing at night like he said, jet skis (and fishing boats for that matter) shouldn't even be a problem. Don't know how they figure into the logic. He probably has the whole lake to himself.

By the way....I am a MINNESOTA resident. I understand fully what is being discussed on this forum. I just don't piss and moan about it like every other NR I know. Deal with it.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

some fish at night because of the low traffic, looking at the big picture may help you DEAL with it.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Eric,

Nice comment "these lakes aren't yours....". Kind of a hypocritical
statement considering some of the previous posts you have
made, along with your fellow residents. I love how you residents
talk out of every orifice on your human body. Take a gander
at the thread "North Dakota Residents". I question your ethics,
is it greed or heritage?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

James...we have a cost effective legis. they only meet every other year...next in 2005.So how do you propose we do something to change things???????

I find the statement about non-res. keeping all their fish when they are in Minn interesting.I would bet most of the non-res. that hunt here for a week shoot the limit every day also.And to quote you Bert..."they kill every damn one of them!!!!"


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

My point exactly James. Bert and many others have taken to fishing at night to avoid the pressure. They've learned to DEAL with it. That's the great thing about being human....we can reason and adapt to changing situations (I guess having opposable thumbs ranks high also). Dealing with the situation by adapting new tacticts or going to new locations are just part of the game. I liver near (not on) arguably the most heavily used lake in the state (Minnetonka). If I want to fish that lake, I'm there at the crack of dawn and off the water by 9:00 a.m. because of the jet skis and yachts racing around. I've yet to see a jet ski or yacht on that lake licensed in ND. I have seen a few bass boats during tournament time licensed in Texas, Alabama, and Tennessee though.

Hunting and fishing have changed dramatically in the last 10 years. Something we can all agree on. The new ND laws are just one of those changes. I have had to deal with them and so must you. And because of those new laws, I have made contacts with some very gracious ND landowners whom I would never had the priviledge of knowing. These new laws forced me to seek new areas and broke me out of the rut of hunting the same place all the time.

I'm just sick of Minnesota residents (once again....I am a MN resident) saying this is a direct assualt on them and getting their boxers in a bunch about it. The new laws affect ALL non-resident hunters. Yes, I know, most non-resident hunters in ND are from MN. Yes, I know your taxes helped pay for some of the public lands in ND...actually it was probably your grand-parents or great-grand-parents tax money from which these lands were purchased...but I digress. Your tax money and taxes from every non-hunter in the United States (including the anit's).

My tax money helps pay for Federal land in Montana. Every time I apply for an elk license, my chances of drawing are limited by non-resident quotas. Same thing.

I wish MN residents would spend as much time and energy looking for ways to improve this state instead of trying to change something we have no say in. If that means raising fishing license fees or restricting days on the water, fine. I think most of the people on this forum agree. Just quit taking it so damn personal.

I'm all for lowering fish and duck limits...something Bert and I agree on. Those that enjoy these sports will participate regardless of limits. It's all about the experience. I'd like to see a state-wide slot limit and minimum size limit for all specieis of fish. Plus I think reduced limits would weed out the "unsavory" characters that shoot just to kill a limit or fish to brag about the size and numbers they caught.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I still think banning us from the Vikings both live & TV & Radio would be what we deserve


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Just to clarify...
When I say "catching x number of fish a night" I do not mean that I wait until dark to fish. I go out about 3:00 and fish until dark. The lake I fish most is not productive after dark.


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## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

I cant believe that some of our MN neighbors are this upset about what is happening in another state.Have any of you considered geting involved in wetland restorations,wetland improvments etc.?A friend that lives in the Park Rapids area told me that many of Minnesota's larger wetlands are in tough shape because of minnows,carp,etc. How about lobbying your ledgislature to clean up that mess.Is the MN waterfowl hunters association actively involved in any of this?Or are they soley concerned with what happens in ND?This buddy of mine that lives over there also does very well on ducks and geese.Most years he does better than I do.I talked to him the other night and he mentioned that there were plenty of ducks and geese around,you just have to get away from the crowded well known areas and do a little work to find them.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Well said Tumblebuck, a great post!!! Fetch you may be on to something with the Vikings, however the Vikes are a great way to teach our children how to deal with disappoint again and again......  
Good stuff also Mallard....


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

Amen, Mallard!!!

psst....I can get my hands on a couple cases of dynamite. Need a couple accomplices to help go blow-up some drain tile. Anybody with me? :wink:


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Mallard,
In answer to your questions:

Yes many of us have considered getting involved in wetland restorations. I personally signed off on a lifetime easement with the USFWS to restore two wetlands on my property and permanently protect 23 acres which already exist. I put up 19 woodduck boxes and trap preditors. My records showed that last year, my efforts were rewarded with around 40 baby woodducks, 15 bluewinged teal, 8 greenwinged teal, 11 mallards, 8 mergansers and 8 canada geese.
My take off of that property was 8 wooducks, 4 teal and a mallard.

Some of Mn's larger wetlands are in tough shape due to carp. Lake Christina by Dalton/Ashby has had a horrible time with them for example. Problem is that even though they rotenoned them out a few years ago, those things breed like cats and with so many in the state, they can be replanted by birds and even overland flooding. Lobbying the legislature doesnt change that. Christina was coming back nicely after throwing a buttload of money at the problem and now the carp are back. 
Any ideas?

Minnows? Yeah, they are a problem in some bodies of water in that they feed on the same stuff (invertebrates like freshwater shrimp etc) but not only are they also tough to keep out of ponds, fishermen pay $ for them in this state for bait and that business has certian individuals planting the things. Ever bought minnows in Mn? How about Mn minnows in North Dakota? You could be part of the problem.

MWA? As far as I know, they care nothing about ND. and yes, they are involved in all kinds of reclamation and protection.

I also (like your buddy over here) do very well on ducks and geese. That is why it really isnt that big a deal that I dont go west anymore.
Much of that has to do with, like you say, getting away from the crowd. Fortunately for me, that isnt too hard to do. For many in this state, it is because of the population where they live. To them, if they are going to travel this far to hunt ducks, they may as well go 100 more miles and hunt in Dakota.

I went to Dakota not to kill a bunch of ducks. I could have, but never did shoot my limit out there. (I set my own limits which are stricter than the law) I went there to SEE a bunch of ducks and shoot some to eat.
Again, the only thing that bothers me about many of you who want to keep NRs out is that you are the same ones who feel that since you own a cabin over here, you are more or less residents. I hear NoDakers over here all the time referring to them as "our lakes". They dont come over here, hat in hand to fish, they just come. I always asked permission to hunt in North Dakota even though I have known the landowners for 15 years.
Keep your ducks, keep me out, but then volunteer to stay in NoDak to fish. We dont like crowds either.
We are doing what we can to help our waterfowl situation in Minnesota but short of killing off a couple of million people, its going to take a while.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Geez bert did Ernie pizz in your cherrios or what ???

What is it you want ???

write em down & we will all do our best to make ya happy :roll:

So you think were all what ???

Guys like you & the YoYo who wrote the colum in the backlash section of Dakota Country just can't wait to turn ND into a State like the ones you come from :eyeroll: Like that guy said "10 yrs ago I could walk out my door & hunt" -Not anymore !!! well 10 yrs ago I could hunt 90 % of the State not anymore - what will it be like in 10 yrs from now ???

As long as you have your little piece of the pie - all will be OK :******: ---That is not what I call hunting & I will give it up if it comes to having to stay in one little place -- I'll have to finally fall fish & maybe try bow hunting :-?

Even if we have 100 times as much public lands - Who cares if there is no limit to how many can come & pressure the birds & cause everything to be posted :******:


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Fetch,
I didnt understand most of your post but I just did write down what I want. Ill stay in my state and you stay in yours. 
Mn duck hunting isnt all that bad and Nodak fishing isnt all that bad so it should work out just fine.
Heck, Im keeping my end of the bargain. Didnt do NoDak this year and will never do it again.
I have said from the get go that you do what you want and more power to ya, I just have a hard time swallowing your reasoning when I cant swing a cat in the summer and not hit someone from Fargo.
If my owning land is what you mean by my little piece of the pie...
The ducks I raised greatly outnumber the ducks I shot. Furthermore, if I didnt own that land and do what I have done, there would have been no ducks raised there as it would have been a corn field. I did a lot more for other peoples hunting than someone who lives in the city and relies on others to do the work and go through the expense of raising critters.
You can no longer hunt 90% of the state? Boo frickin hoo!
If you cant (or wont) limit yourself to a smaller area, that is your problem. It aint 1950 or even 1970 anymore and there isnt squat you can do about it. 
By the way, I do let people hunt, if I know them enough to believe that they arent slobs. What is wrong with that. When you freelance on private land, somebody owns that too. Just because I dont figure that I owe hunting fun to complete strangers doesnt make me a jerk. Expecting that would.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Here's one ND hasn't heard before, but why not. Some guys in ND have gotten used to a certain expectation. I call it spoiled, but it doesn't matter. (you have possession limits anyway???) Or doesn't that apply to some residents??? If resident hunters drive around scouting as much as they say they do, how can finding birds and land to hunt be so much of a problem?? As a Minn. res. I have found better hunting in your own state than you have??? Hard core whats??? Wow!! I didn't think I had skills. After hearing about the ND pressure on Minn. lakes and how it has affected there fishing, well I guess some ND fishermen that come to Minn. are getting classified as a Non-res. problem just like I am in North Dakota. (A little discrimination??) How's that feelin'?? :wink: The real sticker is that resident hunters have never seen me, and I'll never see a North Dakota fisherman. Hmmmm, I don't want anything.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

One down(bert), 20,000 more to go! Strict limits on nr's and license available by lottery only!  
Come'on goldy, you can do better than that. dd: 
Nothing worse than a wannabe North Dakotan oke:


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

It's not a problem & lets keep it that way

Just like the NRA has to be extreme to find middle ground

I'm somewhat extreme in hopes we come out somewhere in the middle in all this :roll: eace:


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

I beg to differ 4leg; There's guys like yourself who are giving some of the fine people of North Dakota a spoiled reputation. But keep dat fire lit der, NON RES HUNTING ONLY. I think another sign just went up. :thumb:


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## zack (Oct 17, 2003)

Nobody cares what goes on in Mn, but this thread goes on and on and on and...... Everyone can't see this is purely political? Actually, this is what a certain group loves to see, divide and conquer. Sportsmen fighting against each other. Minn does have some wonderful opportunities for hunting and fishing. North Dakota does have some wonderful opportunities for hunting and fishing. Damn, as i see it we're an awful lot alike. This MN bill is purely retaliatory against ND. Don't compare hunting and fishing. This bill has nothing to do with that. Yes I was pizzed when ND changed the upland game license, I hunted with my family about 5-6 weekends each year by Bismarck. We also own part of the family farm. Being part of a family always gets ya in the end. I pay your property taxes and I pay your license fees! Welcome to the club. If you don't like it, I guess everyone knows what they can do. Get over it! I did............
and now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
zack


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

EgZackly!! Nobody cares what Mn is doing. :-?

Why is that only sotans are pissin and moaning? Where are the Sodaks, Montanans, Iowans and cheeseheads? We aren't hearing them  .

Don't crap yourself g-pizz, our voice will be heard and you'll be looking in from the outside. The trouble is we have what you don't, and you have what what we don't want! :box:


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

4CurlRedleg,

You certainly have alot of issues against NRs. What is the deal?
You keep printing "we" in the last posts. Do you speak for all
resident's hunters and landowners. All you are capable of is 
smarta$$ comments. Try printing something intelligent if
possible.


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## zack (Oct 17, 2003)

4curl
I'm afraid you read alot more into it than was there. If NoDak had what I wanted I wouldn't have moved after 22 years. And how can you make a claim we don't have anything you want. If that were the case, all you NoDakers wouldn't be stretchin this thread. Seems to me that you northern boyz can pizz and moan with the best of 'em. I wasn't complaining, I stated a fact and that I got over it. Really, you boyz have got to get over yourselves. 
zack


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Just one issue PSDC, the mass of nr's that come here in Oct. and apply pressure beyond what the resource can handle.

Being close to the industry I hear and see it all,

#1. Why are the pheasants so wild in the third weekend of Oct.
#2. Where are the ducks after the second weekend of the season.
Too much pressure, period.
I have no boner with any one nr, just the mass. Limits by applications=preservation of quality. SoDak figured it out on waterfowl, and so will this state. And I do speak for the folks that give a darn about the heritage, the rest of them are motivated by money and greed, they will never stand for anything but themselves.
:******: 
Where would you stand PS if you made your way here in ND? Would you just stand there and take it? :splat:

People that choose to live here and forgo the haves for the havenots wear balls that clank. The people who bail for the haves are a dime a dozen and in my opinion are not recognized. :roll:


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Golly Gee 4curl, Did someone slap you on the wrist and throw the "Politically Correct Manual" at you??? Thanks for the knowledge that has been spoken. I understand lots more now. Does this mean I can come into your state now, or do I still have to look in from the outside?? :huh:


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

No and don't make me stoop down anymore, PSDC doesn't like it. dd:


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## Dano2 (Oct 8, 2002)

he he, ya, I feel sorry for you ND folks .
You just dont have anything do you, HEH!


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