# Cattails, Blackbirds and Pheasants:



## Crazy Horse RVN (Aug 31, 2006)

*What's your opinion on this? How do you think this will this affect the Pheasant population in ND?*

Federal wildlife officials plan to kill blackbirds' cattail habitat for sunflower farmers

By JAMES MacPHERSON
Associated Press Writer
BISMARCK, N.D. (AP) - Federal wildlife officials will target entire parcels of cattail-choked wetlands in North Dakota this year to kill the preferred habitat of sunflower-scarfing blackbirds.
Some 60,000 acres of cattail marshes in North Dakota have been destroyed since 1991 to try to keep blackbirds at bay, said Phil Mastrangelo, state director for the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Wildlife Services agency.
Last year in North Dakota, about 4,500 acres of wetlands in 16 counties were treated, Mastrangelo said. This year there will be enough money to treat about 8,000 acres, he said.
A herbicide is applied from a helicopter, at a cost to the government of about $23 an acre, Mastrangelo said. The program targets only cattails on private land and is free to sunflower farmers. Last year, 43 of them got treatment.
In past years, about 70 percent of a cattail marsh was treated with a herbicide, but blackbirds were still able to nest, loaf and roost in the remaining fuzzy-topped weeds with reedlike leaves. "That 30 percent still gave some heartburn from the blackbirds," Mastrangelo said.
The USDA estimates blackbirds eat more than $10 million worth of sunflowers each year in North Dakota, which accounts for about half of the nation's sunflower production.
"Just getting rid of cattails is a real good tool to use," said Mike Clemens, a sunflower farmer from Wimbledon, in eastern North Dakota. "If you can get rid of them within two miles of a field, blackbirds will go somewhere else to find something else to chew on."
Clemens, who has used the program for two years, said eradicating all the cattails in an area is important. "If you leave 10 percent of cattails, it's still just enough to attract birds who will still want to hang around," he said.
Some 70 million blackbirds come through the Northern Plains each year, including about 6 million that stop in North Dakota, biologists say. Each blackbird can eat about an ounce of sunflower seeds daily.
Larry Kleingartner, executive director of the Bismarck-based National Sunflower Association, said cattail eradication has been effective in controlling blackbirds. He said the loss of habitat makes the blackbirds more vulnerable to predators during nesting.
Cattails cover some 600,000 acres of wetlands in North Dakota. Mastrangelo said wetlands treated with the herbicide are typically free of cattails for about five years.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

it's a no brainer.........CRP AND cattails both being destroyed? 
who the hell is looking out for wildlife out here?? :eyeroll:

this will be the last straw for waterfowl and the pheasant population, let alone blackbirds. this is so sad........great plan by the sunflower growers asssociation. should help the pot growers association too.

hell let's just destroy everything that isn't planted so we can have more crop production, yeah that's it, let's kill and cut down all the trees while we are at it...... :eyeroll: 
good luck boys......


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## siouxhockey (Oct 23, 2007)

Talk about unbelievable. If I were to count the number of roosters I've kicked up out of cattails I'd be counting until the 2008 opener. I'm not an ecology expert but I don't see how that wouldn't hurt the pheasant population. I wonder if there is a petition or a group that is getting hunter's voices heard?


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## Crazy Horse RVN (Aug 31, 2006)

Upon thinking about this destruction of Cattails one has to wonder about the effect it will have on various waterfowl. Not only ducks but Greebs, aquatic creatures and many other types of small birds that frequent cattail habitat.

I'll bet not a blade of cattail would be destroyed if an Osprey were to frequent one of those Cattail sloughs.


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

Greed and ignorance. Makes me frickin sick. uke: :******: uke:


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## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

What's silly is it doesn't work. By the government's own admission, the birds just move to another area, and eat another crop. So while destroying habitat may protect a crop within two miles, it just shifts the imapact elsewhere. Ah well.....there are even dumber things yet to be done.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Ignorance in motion - The US Government. :eyeroll: :roll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

This kind of thing will definetly hurt upland game and deer.But it will actually benefit waterfowl....since it doesn't say the areas will be drained.

Huge expanses of cattails do not benefit waterfowl.....in fact waterfowl need open areas.If the water still remains in that low spot there will more more ducks not less.Refuges actually burn and mow down large expanses of cattails every year to open up areas for waterfowl.

Not good for animals that need that winter cover.....but waterfowl benefits from killing cattails.

Plus all this program does is move the blackbirds somewhere else as
oldfireguy says.Farmers planting sunflowers close to expanses of cattails are basically asking for problems.Refuge personnel hear this complaint every year.Some farmers are just slow learners I guess or are just stubborn with the attitude that I can do whatever I want and if it doesn't work.....the gov't should pay for it.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

I've killed a lot of ducks of cattail sloughs in bad weather. it is another refuge for them open water cannot provide. also helps absorb fertilizer runoff from fields, which we will soon see a lot more of in our ground water and wells with the proliferation of grain planting to produce ethanol based fuels.

ah, more pollution and poisoning of wildlife and ourselves. :eyeroll:


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

Dont be so quick to pass judgement on the farmers!! you would do the same thing!! If you would not then put your money where your mouth is. Pay a farmer not to do it out of your pocket. Its easy to blame some one else when its not your money!


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

when there are no birds, no trees and no wildlife, will it be enough?

no, we will need to poison the rest of the earth to rid the insects from decimating our crops next.

only when there is nothing left, will there be enough. think about it.... :roll:


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080304/sc ... 2RtRGs0NUE


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

I find it sad to hear from a wintering habitat point of view, but understand the reason behind it from a farming standpoint.

One has to remember that sunflower production has been reduced being replaced by crops like corn and soybeans. So predidation of the remaining fields has increased. Unless you have seen the damage one cannot phantom what a flock of black birds can do.

I spent a good deal of time hazing black birds on our farm as did my folks. They would burn every wetland area they could that contained cattails and would cut them as well in the winter if possible so they would drown when spring water rises occurred.

When we stopped clearing and burning cattails deer and pheasants returned but the folks stopped when they stopped raising sunflowers.

Once again it is hard to be mad at the farmer, but I do not like the idea we as tax payers are paying the bill!


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## Bagman (Oct 17, 2002)

Eradicating the cats is stupid enough uke: by itself...but dumping POISON (herbicide) on the land is doubly stupid. :eyeroll: The farmers cant cut and or burn them on their own? All this for a few more bushels of grain and a few more bucks in someones pocket. Pathetic.

Where the he!! is NDGF on this matter? I would like a comment from their perspective...at the very least.


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## ChukarBob (Sep 4, 2006)

As a few of you have noted, it is a complicated situation. And there's more than enough blame to go around, so we shouldn't rush to judgment. You can't blame farmers for wanting to maximize the return on their croplands. We all do that in our economic spheres. And, you can't blame "GOVERNMENT", for government is simply responding to a need from an important constituency. This is one of those situations of conflicting interests and we typically should look to our state legislatures and/or the U.S. Congress for a solution. It's our elected officials who are "hired" to make tough choices around conflicting interests and scarce resources. Write and call your elected officials and let them know what you want!


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## Crazy Horse RVN (Aug 31, 2006)

It's also a duty of your respective Game and wildlife agencies to oversee these matters that impact various species.

Someone previously posed the question of what your wildlife agency is doing about it. That's who should be addressing this matter and we folks should be addressing them with our concerns.

I wonder if the ND agency monitors this site?


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

good comment. was there an environmental study regarding affects on the wetlands using herbicides (most are not to be used in aquatic situations) on this issue? was there a required hearing?

did anyone notify the general public of this decision?

was protocol followed or was there any protocol regarding this decision required?

is there any required notification to the general public regarding application dates and associated warnings?

sounds like lots of unanswered questions here folks...


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

Bagman said:


> Eradicating the cats is stupid enough uke: by itself...but dumping POISON (herbicide) on the land is doubly stupid. :eyeroll: The farmers cant cut and or burn them on their own? All this for a few more bushels of grain and a few more bucks in someones pocket. Pathetic.
> 
> Where the he!! is NDGF on this matter? I would like a comment from their perspective...at the very least.


Bagman
i know a farmer that has a problem with black birds and his sunflowers. How much are YOU willing to pay to preserve them. How many of YOUR dollars are you willing to pay to preserve them? You talk poorly of them but you wont sack up your money so you are being a hypocryte! we piss about the farmers cutting CRP land but we are unwilling to pay them for it. Its really easy to blow crap on them but why dont some of you pony up a few thousand a year or go and buy a place and turn it over to wildlife. Not a measly duck stamp or hunting lic. money but say 10k?? Quit blaming the farmers as you would do the SAME thing. If you dont think y ou would i know a farmer who will let his cats stand for 15k. PAY up or SHUT UP!


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## FlashBoomSplash (Aug 26, 2005)

kgpcr

Good Idea I will be sure to write a letter to the government stating I dont want any of my tax dollars going towards farm subsidies unless the farmer is wildlife friendly and leaves his cattails alone. And I dont want my dollars going towards any farmer that brakes up HEL land. And I dont want my dollars going towards any farmer that brakes up native prairie. And I dont want my dollars going towards land that has been PP for more than 3 years in a row. And I dont want my dollars going towards any farmer farming soils under 50% productivity rating. How about that. Farmers have nothing to complain about but people who care about the environment have a lot to complain about. Especially because its our money out of our pockets paying for this Crap.

Now instead of killing cattails how about we kill some black birds. I would buy a $5 dollar permit to shoot black birds. That would work out great for everyone. The way it is right now we are paying to lose wildlife habitat and destroy air and water quality. There needs to be a balance it cant all go to the farmer.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

No matter how many of them blackbirds you kill, there will be more the next day. I don't agree with killing the cattailss, but how many farmers live and die on sunflowers in ND? I have seen first hand how much damage they. If they are doing that much damage grow another crop. Canola? Peas? Rye? I would bet that most farmers that grow sunflowers, just grow them in small amount for a rotation. If you are having so many problems with them DON'T grow them.


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## Bagman (Oct 17, 2002)

kgpcr said:


> Bagman
> i know a farmer that has a problem with black birds and his sunflowers. How much are YOU willing to pay to preserve them. How many of YOUR dollars are you willing to pay to preserve them? You talk poorly of them but you wont sack up your money so you are being a hypocryte! we piss about the farmers cutting CRP land but we are unwilling to pay them for it. Its really easy to blow crap on them but why dont some of you pony up a few thousand a year or go and buy a place and turn it over to wildlife. Not a measly duck stamp or hunting lic. money but say 10k?? Quit blaming the farmers as you would do the SAME thing. If you dont think y ou would i know a farmer who will let his cats stand for 15k. PAY up or SHUT UP!


First, I dont believe I 'talked poorly of them'...second, thanks for reinforcing my point that its all about a few bucks. As someone else pointed out...if flowers arent a feasably financial crop...GROW SOMETHING ELSE!! Dumping POISON on the land and destroying VITAL HABITAT to provide a few more bucks to farmers is SICKENINGLY FLAWED/NARROW MINDED thinking. Again...why cant they simply BURN the cats if they really MUST eradicate them!?! I know thats not a PERMANENT solution but it beats POISON. Lets make the land (and possibly the water table) more TOXIC so farmer x can improve his yield on flowers. Please.


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

Bagman
Again i make the offer. lets use your money to leave the cattails alone. Put up or shut up! Its easy to say when its not your money


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

i think you are completely missing his point.......the posioning of the environment is a concern for us all, wildlife and people can suffer extreme consequences from applications of herbicide, even those living down stream or down watershed.

all the things/changes happening in ND will soon devestate the landscape and eradicate what wildlife tries to survive. good luck guys. :eyeroll:


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

They use Roundup on Cattails. alot more enviro friendly than Atrazine that is used on corn. Guys i cant stand seeing it happen either but i dont blame them, same goes for CRP. 53.00 and acre for crp or 10 times that in corn. HMMMM what would you do? again if you would leave it prove it! put your money on the line. I just hate seeing farmers take the rap for making a buck!


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## Crazy Horse RVN (Aug 31, 2006)

The farmer is not to blame and neither is the hunter. The responsibility for the result of such a practice as eradicating cattails lies upon the shoulders of the wildlife agency. It's their obligation to see that the enviornment is not poisoned and also to insure that wildlife is not threatened.

That my friends is a very tall order. I don't know what the answer is but one thing for sure the agencies involved need to look further into the matter. The methods they prescribe are what many consider unacceptable.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

So what do these guys think? That getting rid of the cattails is going to get rid of the blackbirds?

This don't make any since at all to me. Blackbirds can't just fly to town and roost for the night and then fly out to feed like ducks, geese, mourning doves...the list goes on.

I guess the question is do we want to pay for the labor intensive burning of the cattails or do we want to subsidize farmers for the loss of seeds. Maybe we could plant buffer sunflowers for the birds to feed on. The upland birds could feed on them too. A win win for all involved, including hunters.
My opinion.
Dan


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## 2Socks (Apr 18, 2006)

Can't use Roundup on cattails it is Rodeo.


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## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

There was a program that paid the farmers to leave some sunflowers unharvested and the birds were not to be bothered on these plots.The idea was to keep the birds near sloughs and off other snunflowers. I don't know if the program is still in effect or if it worked.


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

Guys i dont like it any better than you do! I just cant blame a farmer for plowing his CRP when he will make a ton more money. You cant blame them after all the years of making little money to want to make a dollar or two. Its easy to blame them when you are not the one passing up the money. This ethanol thing is way out of hand and wont get any better any time soon! its hard to tell a guy who owns the land he cant farm it! Its HIS land! as long as he is not going to leave it a toxic waste dump its his to farm as he sees fit!


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

kgpcr said:


> Guys i dont like it any better than you do! I just cant blame a farmer for plowing his CRP when he will make a ton more money. You cant blame them after all the years of making little money to want to make a dollar or two. Its easy to blame them when you are not the one passing up the money. This ethanol thing is way out of hand and wont get any better any time soon! its hard to tell a guy who owns the land he cant farm it! Its HIS land! as long as he is not going to leave it a toxic waste dump its his to farm as he sees fit!


Yeah...I can blame them. 
Looks to me like most of the farmers around my area, the ones who are on top of it, are doing pretty well for themselves. 
All current grain prices will do is cause trouble down the road for the farming community. Higher fuel, higher seed, higher land to rent or buy, higher equipment cost. 
It's an ebb and flow thing. Prices go up and so do costs. Prices go down and cost adjust accordingly. 
As far as it being his land, that may well be, but the banks control the money and much of what farmers do as far as planting and crop plans.

My 2 cents worth,
Dan


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

Dan i grew up on a farm and you could not be more wrong. Yes fuel is up but it is for everyone. Seed and the rest goes up as it has for the last 100 yrs. I will say this. Farmers are finaly making a good living. One hail storm and its game over for the year. Whats wrong with a farmer making a dollar. I dont blame them. Would YOU turn down a raise?? Who here would. Like the saying goes make hay when the sun shines! There is NO doubt this ethanol thing has every thing out of wack big time. as long as oil is 100+ a barrel it will not get any better any time soon! YOU would not turn down a raise so how can you blame the farmer?? I think this whole thing sucks but its not the farmers doing. Oil at 100+ a barrel is going to screw up alot of things BIT TIME!!


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## Crazy Horse RVN (Aug 31, 2006)

It's not the farmer's fault! *Yo*, a farmer has 1 maybe 2 good years then the weather kicks him in the butt and he's about ready to sell the spread just to survive. To my mind it takes one hell of a man to dig in the dirt to make a living, and any profit he garners was hard labored for. Nobody gives a farmer anything except for problems.

This ethanol fad will eventually pass and things will return to some form of what we will refer to as NORMAL. If you or I have a beef with the eradication of Cattails and the possibility of it's negative effect upon Pheasants and other varied wildlife we should take it up with the Fish & Game Dept. You might even want to lick a stamp and send a letter to your legislator. 
The greatest problem we hunters, trappers and fishermen have is our *APATHY!* We all figure someone else will solve our problems. Someone else will write that letter. Someone else will make a formal complaint. 
Well, they won't. *It's up to YOU!*


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I grew up on a farm and I will farm when I get out of college. The day of the small time farmer is over. Getting rid of the cattails when not help the blackbird problem at all. They will find other places to hang out, instead of a cattails. NO farmer in ND makes a complete living off sunflowers. Like I said earlier, sunflowers are just a crop to throw in the rotation to mix things up. If other states like Kansas and Nebraska are not killing their cattails to kill the black birds, and they have way more sunflowers in one year then ND does in 5. Yes, SOME farmers need a break somewhere, but raising sunflowers to just claim crop damage is just as bad as killing the cattails. If farmers are complain about the birds, simply grow another crop. Sunflowers are hardly worth raising anyways, we kept our flowers for 4 years before there was a decent price. There is no money in sunflowers, unless you haul to Fargo are farther south.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

sounds to me like $24 bushel wheat would be a good alternative.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

The question is, how much more money are they really making? I know tthat grain is up, but I know also that a lot of guys have it contracted for a set price...far below the what the markets are now. You're right about inflation of everything, but with the exploded grain prices, you'll see or already have seen super high fertilizer and seed and other essentials to farming.

You're right about things getting screwed up. Farmers not only the ethenol issue but also the lack of surplus grain on the market that has lead to these inflated grain prices. Question is, is the prices going to come back down for petroleum based farming products and fuels when the grain surplus is back in balance and prices come down? Or will they stay bloated?

I think it's a checks and balances thing. My friend Rodney puts around $300,000 a year in the ground. Others undoubtedly dwarf this figure in terms of acerage planted. I think that if you are in debt to the bank for that kind of money you're going to be right on top of things in all aspects of your life. If you're not, you're not gettng the loan for expenses. I may be wrong about this, but with that sort of investment, I don't think a few acres of cattails are going to make a big difference. Besides, if that hail storm comes through and wipes you out and your insurance is only picking up a percentage of the loss, blackbirds are the least of your worries.

Just my thoughs.
Sincerely,
Dan


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