# 220 swift??



## foster_65 (Sep 20, 2007)

hey guys, looking to pick up a good varmint/prairie dog gun. i already have a 22-250 with a skinny barrel but want something different and was thinking of the good old swift. what do you guys think about it or what things good/bad do you know about the caliber


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

not 2 much differnt than the 250.burns more powder for a modest speed gain.if your looking for something diff. how bout a .22 hornet??? piles of fun to shoot :beer:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

.204 Ruger is one sweet shooting round. Give that a shot.


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

foster_65 said:


> hey guys, looking to pick up a good varmint/prairie dog gun. i already have a 22-250 with a skinny barrel but want something different and was thinking of the good old swift. what do you guys think about it or what things good/bad do you know about the caliber


IMHO, there is not much difference between the 22-250 and the 220 Swift. Especially if you reload. I have my 22-250 spitting out 50 gr V-Max(moly) at 3915fps. According to Hodgdon.com you are going to get somewhere in the mid to high 3900's with a 50gr bullet from a Swift. I'm pretty much there, so I don't see a need to put in more powder to do the same thing. All you'll get is faster throat errosion.

If you really want something different, you could consider a 243 and try using those 55gr Nosler Ballistic tips in it. You should be able to pump those up in excess of 4000fps. WOW! I want to try that myself.

The 204, as previously suggested could be a lot of fun, but somehow the hype on the 204 hasn't impressed me.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Not sure if you can call it "hype". I think the .204 has been every thing they thought it would be. Mine seems to be fast, flat, and accurate. Just like they say it is.


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## kirsch (Jul 6, 2009)

You mention varmints and prairie dogs. As everyone else has said you already have a great gun in the 22-250 and the .220 swift is almost identical. I would go down to one of 3 calibers. The .17 HMR, .17 Fireball or .17 Rem. I shoot a .17 Rem almost exclusively as my round. It is more than enough gun to down a coyote to 300 yards, but it also has little kick and does a number on anything smaller. If you are looking for mainly prairie dogs then a .17 HMR would work but is too small for consistent coyote hunting. .17 Fireball is Ok for all of it but is just a bit slower than a .17 Rem but seems to be getting popular. The .204 is fine but the .17 will drop a coyote just as dead and has less kick so to me it doesn't add anything. Just my .02 after 25 years of coyote hunting.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

kirsch, not to knock you in any way, but you notice recoil on a .204? I guess I have never noticed. My .204 is a 26" heavy barrel with a lam stock, so it does weigh quite a bit so that may be why.

I have never shot a .17 other than the HMR, but I am very interested in the .17 fireball. What do you shoot?


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

No to steal your thunder Kirsch. The 17cals are still a bit small for serious coyote work. They have velocity that's for sure, but it had better be dead calm out, because those little 20g-37g bullets get pushed around pretty well. I'm definitely not trying to say they won't kill a coyote, because you can kill a coyote with a pellet gun of you're close enough. And heaven forbid there be a blade of grass that you have to shoot through, that little bullet frags on contact. They're a great caliber for fox, i'll tell you that much. It would be a great round on Prairie poodles, but then again so would a 204.

Having said that I'd pick up a fireball/mach IV for shooting varmints smaller than a coyote. It would be great to see impacts.

One draw back is the throat erosion on the 17Rem and 17FB. They don't last long, there is a lot of powder behind that little bullet that has to travel all the way down the barrel to find an exit. 
Another draw back would be that you'll have to buy all new cleaning supplies because a 22cal rod will not fit down a 17cal bore. 

Positives would be very little or no recoil and great on fur.

If it were me and i'd just be shooting prairie poodles then it would be either the 204,223,22-250. but beings that you already have the 22-250 I'd go with the 204, but I wouldn't push this caliber to much either, they are marginal on coyotes as well. For prairie poodles it's a blast, it'll open them up like a pop can, and you'll see every bit of it.

xdeano


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## kirsch (Jul 6, 2009)

xdeano was nice not to slam me too hard but I have a 22-250 and a .17 Rem and both have harvested hundreds of coyotes each, and I hunt in ND where it is windy almost every day and my .17 Rem is still the first gun I grab when I go for coyotes. It will kill coyotes consistently to 300 yards. The stigma of the .17 centerfires blowing around in the wind is highly exaggerated. Will they drift more, yes they will, but a 22-250 will drift more than a 257 and a 30-06. Just throwing out my experience. For those that don't want to shoot the .17's totally understand. What I will say is if you shoot anything under 22-250, do not use ballistic tip ammo on coyotes. You will wish you weren't shooting small calibers. Use a match HP type bullet and you will be happy.


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## kirsch (Jul 6, 2009)

FYI, I ran a typical 22-250 load and a .17 Rem load through a ballistics calculator with a 15 mph straight crosswind. At 100 yards .19 inches difference, 1 inch difference at 200 yards, 300 yards 2.5 inches. This is comparing it to the 22-250 which along with the 220 swift are about as fas in the .22 caliber range as you want to get. Again, a straight 15 mph sustained crosswind isn't exactly an easy test as how often are you directly shooting into a total crosswind. Change the wind deflection by about half to a quartering wind at about 300 yards, it is an inch. I will stop here.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Kirsch,

Nice rebuttal. I quick did a load comparison also and you're numbers are right on the money give or take a few tenths.

The other thing that I look at is the amount of energy that is transferred/retained at a give distance.

So given that velocity is basically a horse a piece, where the larger bullets will shine in a given instance is their potential to transfer a larger portion of energy creating a larger wound cavity, more blood loss, and fewer run offs, but you'll give up fur quality with that as well.

17Rem. 100yds 657ft/lbs, 200yds 473ft/lbs, 300yds 334ft/lbs
22-250 100yds 1240ft/lbs, 200yds 942.4ft/lbs, 300yds 707.0ft/lbs

I'm not saying that the 17 is bad, it just has it's place. If you're shooting coyote with one, you'd better know what your doing. If you're shooting woodchucks or prairie dogs with one, oh the fun. If I were looking at it I'd seriously be looking at barrel life, that's the fine line for me. I want something that's going to give me the best bang for the buck. don't even rebuttal about some 22LR joke because i'm already thinking it. 

Nice discussion Kirsch.

Foster-65 to be honest with you the swift has a relatively short barrel life and it won't give you much more that what you already have in the 22-250. If anything go with another 22-250, that way you won't have to have buy other ammo, pick one up in a heavy fluted barrel and go to town on those prairie dogs. Then use the light one for calling coyotes if you so choose. You can't go wrong.

Deano


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## kirsch (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah, the tables will vary slightly depending on type of bullet and speed. I used two bergers for my comparison with the .17 Rem at 4000 and the 22-250 at 3700 for both loads for the best comparison.

I had a guy at a gun shop tell me one time, "dead is dead." Personally, if I didn't reload, I wouldn't consider using a .204 or any .17 caliber for coyotes as there isn't a good supply of non-ballistic tip ammunition on the market. I call the 25 caliber .17 rem load a magic bullet because coyotes just fall asleep in the field as it goes in, doesn't come out and the coyotes go straight down. Vitually no spinners and just instant death. Don't get me wrong, I still shoot my 22-250 a lot too. The small calibers aren't for everyone. For the average varmint hunter, I would choose a bigger caliber like the 22-250 but since he already had the 250. I liked the discussion as well. Xdeano, PM me with an email address, and I will send you a short video clip of what a .17 does to a coyote at 250 yards. It is a funny video.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

very nice :beer:

xdeano


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

xdeano said:


> Kirsch,
> 
> Nice rebuttal. I quick did a load comparison also and you're numbers are right on the money give or take a few tenths.


Not to slame you guys, but the drift at 300 yards could still amount to a miss on a smaller cal where the 22-250 would still hit. At closer ranges WD is a moot point anyway. Where it really counts is on the longer shots and the extra WD on the 17's is significant IMHO.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

right wind will affect you at long range. I'll give you that but we were comparing 300yds and closer.

If how ever you're looking at shooting a prairie dog at 300, with the WD of a 17 you'll just have to correct more. So what you're already correcting for a 22-250 anyhow. You're going to miss with both if you don't know your windage anyhow. If you're shooting prairie dogs, it doesn't matter because heck if you miss, line out the next one and try it again. Coyotes on the other hand if you shoot a broad side coyote with a 250 and wind drifts you may hit the guts and you'll be doing a lot of looking, but If you shoot a 17 you may hit the hip and you may look just as long. It's a horse a piece guys.

Go crazy and pick up a 408 cheytac and shoot them at what ever distance you want and worry less about wind. Just so long as you do the critter that you're shooting at a favor and end his life quick and painless. If you get that done, than you're golden.

xdeano


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

xdeano said:


> right wind will affect you at long range. I'll give you that but we were comparing 300yds and closer.
> 
> If how ever you're looking at shooting a prairie dog at 300, with the WD of a 17 you'll just have to correct more. So what you're already correcting for a 22-250 anyhow. You're going to miss with both if you don't know your windage anyhow. If you're shooting prairie dogs, it doesn't matter because heck if you miss, line out the next one and try it again. Coyotes on the other hand if you shoot a broad side coyote with a 250 and wind drifts you may hit the guts and you'll be doing a lot of looking, but If you shoot a 17 you may hit the hip and you may look just as long. It's a horse a piece guys.
> 
> ...


I don't know what bullet you are shooting in a 250, but the 50gr Vmax in mine kills a gut shot yote at just under 300 (284 to be exact) likety-split (massive hemoraging). Dead, done....... Perhaps the 17 would do the same.

I am not knocking the 17's. I think it is a great idea and I do find appeal in the 17's (just not the 204, and I can't explain why). All I am saying is that I differ in your opinion that 2-3 inches of difference in WD is not signficant. I think it is. IMHO.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

a gut shot coyote will run a long ways before it bleeds out. I know first hand. When I was younger one of my first coyotes was a gut shot and I jogged after it for a long dang ways before I could take another shot to kill it. Hence the reason I don't shoot the 250 anymore either. I went to a larger caliber, with better bc bullets that can rip through wind a lot better and travel a great bit further.

I was shooting a 50g Nosler Ballistic Tip, that was right when they first came out the ballistic tip.

xdeano


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## kirsch (Jul 6, 2009)

Bottom line is, get the coyote into a range that you know you can effectively kill a coyote, make a clean shot, and usually the coyote falls over. The original post was about the person has a 22-250 and was looking at getting something smaller. The 22-250 is one of the best coyote guns ever made (in my opinion) and I own one and shoot it a lot. There are many reasons the .17 Rem and many other .17 centerfires are not as popular. Wind is definitely one of them or at least the perception of wind. Personally, my opinion is many .17's and .204s have gone back to the store for lack of enough off-the-shelf ammunition options.

The ironic thing is I have never heard the arguement the .223 drifts too much although it does almost the same as a .17 Rem due to the decrease in speed in comparison to the 22-250. Not trying to get into another good debate just stating an interesting thought. Can 1 or 2 inches mean a miss, yes! Can a 22-250 shooting a 50 grain Vmax hit a coyote perfectly broadside and still have it run 200+ yards before collapsing in a heap. Yes, because I can probably count more than 50 times I have had this happen. Since I switched to Berger HP's I can't think of one. Speed, pentration (don't get nasty thoughts), shock, placement, all play a role on how quickly a coyote or any other animal dies.

We could debate .17 vs 22-250, Berger vs Vmax all day. Bottom line is get what you like or use what you have. To me shooting a .17 which causes virtually no external damage and tons of internal damage, kicks so little I can see the entire site picture the hole time is a good thing. My 22-250 kills lots of coyotes too. My .17 isn't going to kill a coyote at 600 yards so I don't take that shot. I don't shoot a .17HMR but if I did, I wouldn't be shooting coyotes nearly as far as my .17Rem or 22-250. Know your gun and it's positives and limitations. If the perfect gun existed from killing Big Game to prairie dogs, there would only be one caliber and we would all own it, but it isn't reality. To each his own.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I guess the thing to do is just get one of each!!!!


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

kirsch said:


> The original post was about the person has a 22-250 and was looking at getting something smaller.


Actually, the orignal poster has a 22-250 looking to get something different, not necessarily smaller. He has a 22-250 and is considering a 220 swift. All of the options mentioned so far, 204, 17's, and 243 are all different. The main point to make at this time may be that the 220 swift isn't really much different, so why change when there is very little to gain. If you want something different, then get something that is truely different. In the end it doesn't really matter, as long as you scratch that new gun itch. :beer: I like laite319's idea.


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## kirsch (Jul 6, 2009)

I wantabuggy, you are correct. I went back as this thread spun in a different direction so needed to read the original question again. I took it to the smaller calibers of the discussion.

I also agree you can't have too many guns.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> I like laite319's idea.


Hey, thanks!! I have a sneaky suspicion that I am not the first person to thing that!!

I am going to try some thing completely off the wall for me. I am picking up a Marlin 336 XLR in .444 Marlin this weekend. It will be my first lever gun. I can't wait. I am not sure how well it will work on yotes or PDs though :sniper:


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I own a 220 swift and am a big fan of them. But I would not trade one for a 22 250 nor a 22-250 for a Swift.

The 22-250 is probably the better choice since they are so popular shells can be found nearly every where for them.

If I wanted a different rifle for youtes I would get a 243, 244, 6mm, 250 3000, Remington 260, 257 Roberts a 6.5 swed or a 25-06. all the above can be used for deer and heavier bullets than a 22 cal.


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I personally would go up in size. The 22-250 is great, but if you need longer range, or more oomph, my first pick would be a 257 Robberts, simply because I personally love this chambering, next up would be a 25-06. versital as a varmit round, and great for smaller to mid-sized large game. My next choice would be a heavy barreled 308. Lots of great long range information and products geared to the 308. I have a winchester mod 70 varmiter considered a semi-heavy barreled gun 24 inches long and will shoot into sub 1/2" all day long. a 85gr nosler BT out of a 25-06 will stop a yote quite well, and I would think a 120gr Barns X would work on most Elk. Any larger, and it is hard to find a factory heavy tube. I have owned a few 243's, but for some unknown reason I have neaver gotten orerly attached to one. It shoots well enough, but for some reason it is just not my go to chambering. The Robberts is just cool!!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

If you want better long range performance, why not go with the .308? Tried and true.

I'm sorry, but .17s and .204s aren't serious coyote guns. The little 30 odd grain bullets that they perform best with on those fancy ballistic charts just don't have the terminal ballistics to anchor coyote sized animals quickly (and yes, Ive seen it first hand). And when you move up to the larger pills now offered, the well praised "paper performance" starts to slide.

Its like using a .223 for deer. Will it kill a deer? Of course. Is it the best tool for the job? Nope.

In a perfect world, every shot would be at 50 yards and right in the boiler room, in which case a .22 LR would work just fine. But the world is far from perfect. When uncle Murphy rears his ugly head, and I get a poorly hit dog, I want a little extra oomph to my bullet.


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

There are reasons the 22-250 became America's premier varmit cartridge, while the 220 Swift languished on the sidelines after the initial burst of success. I agree with other posters in that if you want something different, go with the 6mm-25 caliber group. The 6mm or 243 loaded with 60-70 grain bullets is a great coyote cartridge. Of course, I do not know if anyone is still chambering the 6mm Rem anymore. A shame, it is one of my favorites. I have an old 788 Rem with a 20" custom heavy barrel in 6mm and a 1-10 twist that is one of the best shooting rifles I have ever owned.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

You could go lots of ways. Like everyone said, not much difference between the swift and the 22-250 to have both.

So, what are you looking for, longer range than the 22-250? If so, you are pretty much going to have to step up to the 6mm class or larger.

Or, something that heats up a little slower but can still zap prarie dogs with east out to 200 yrds or more, then you could go .17, .204, 22 hornet, 222rem, 223, etc.

The .17's are fun, and doping the wind dog shooting is half the fun. Same could be said for the 204 with more range. 22 hornet will limit your range a bit, but definately a fun little gun. 222 and 223 are both very accurate, 223 brass is higher now, but still is around and the 222 can be formed easily out of the 223.

I shoot a .17hmr and .17 mach 2, same gun, two barrels. 222 rem - 3 of them, 22-250 Ackley, and 257 Ackley once in a while for PD's.

Most fun of those I would consider the 222's. I load 40gr nosler BT's which come out about 3500. Excellent PD medicine to 300 yds, cheap to reload, slow to heat up, especially in heavy barrels, and they vaporize those close dogs too, all with a lot less muzzle blast than the 22-250.


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