# Closing a hunting season



## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

At what point should a hunting season be closed? There are very few sharptails left in south central North Dakota. The hatch was down 50% this year and there were very few birds to start with. The last couple of years I have been watching some guys with trailers of upland dogs hunt the remaining covies until they wipe them out. The huns are almost gone also. Do we let the season continue until all are gone?


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

GREAT point... little cover left and so few birds... I would be in favor of shutting it down, but then the money would dry up and all the counties would *****. If you owned 100k acres, and your sharpie population took a hit like that, i bet you would shut it down until it improved.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I really don't think that out of state hunters bring in as much money to the state as they think they do. I'm sure some business would take a small hit, but it you are already operating on slim margins you need to reevaluate your business plan.

I agree with hunters wiping out entire populations of huns. We had a covey of over 20 for two years on some farm land we rent and we never posted it so people can have some places to hunt and I meet some guys after there hunt while I was going to put fertilizer down in that field and it was their fourth day there and they ended up with 18 birds. I haven't seen a bird there all year now. :eyeroll:


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Well - it could be. Take my group... we have about 7 guys that come and go over a two week period in a town with a population of 1400 people. We each probably put $1200 average in the local economy with me and another two guys that stay two weeks putting a good bit more in. This is just ONE tiny group in a very small town. So yes, I do believe that our money makes a huge difference in the local economy.

There is no other LOGICAL explanation of why the Game and Fish would NOT close the season or restrict the bag limits. Follow the MONEY...


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

But what you spend is pennies on the dollar to what residents do.

Anyways, nothing will happen until something even more drastic happens, just like the deer population. :eyeroll:


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## ChukarBob (Sep 4, 2006)

In-state hunters vs. out-of-state hunters???!!! Really? That's the answer - ban out-of-state hunters?? Maybe we should break up the United States of America and create 50 new, little nations, with borders impervious to the cross-border movement of hunters. Wow!

We've all seen the statistics and economic data regarding hunting and its impact on both local and the national economy. Ask any state fish and game department if they're ready to give up the revenue from the sale of out-of-state licenses and fees. Ask that Hettinger motel or diner if they would like the out-of-state hunters to stay away.

My 2-week North Dakota pheasant hunt, which I treasure among all my life experiences, will see me spend approximately the following in ND:
> $170 for licenses (state and tribal)
> $700 in lodging
> $400 for meals and groceries
> $300 for in-state transportation (gas)
> $150 in misc. expenses
Plus I will spend $700, dribbled across Washington, Idaho, and Montana, making the trip to / from ND. All this to shoot a very small number of birds.

Maybe we should just accept that, assuming our game and fish departments know how to manage resources, the major cause for species' declines is related to habitat or weather / climatic conditions and end the silly out-of-state hunter blame-game.


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

The fact of the matter is agriculture is what's sustaining rural ND.... not 3-4 weeks of out of state hunters.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I dislike getting in on this type of discussion.....but.....

Yes the local people are the ones who make towns or businesses die or flourish. The AG industry is a huge part of that. It always has been and always will be.

But how would anyone like their yearly income drop by $2,000 to $10,000 + a year??? I know I wouldn't want that. So hunters coming to towns help. Then let alone the money sent into the Game and Fish for NR hunting licenses. (please someone don't point to SD and say look they limit NR WATERFOWL licenses......they also sell over 100,000 NR pheasant licenses to make up the huge difference between waterfowl and pheasant total license income for the state.)

But now lets get back to the subject....... I for one believe that the Game and Fish will monitor the sharpie populations and will close it or restrict the bag limit if they feel that the population is down. Like others have stated it is more about loss of habitat than anything.

EDIT: There was 95,000 NR small game license (pheasant licenses) sales in SD the fall of 2012. So my figure of 100,000 was off a little.


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## ChukarBob (Sep 4, 2006)

OK, one final post on this subject and then I'll let it go. I would like to see documentation on the contributions to the ND economy by non-resident hunters vs. resident hunters. On a per day in the field basis, I suspect that non-residents make a comparable or greater contribution.

And, when you look at the larger economic picture, ND ranks 7th nationally in agricultural, conservation, and disaster relief subsidies. We've all got skin in that game. Finally, ND ranks 44th per capita in terms of Federal revenue paid in vs. Federal revenue received, netting out at about ($4856), that's minus $4856.

We're all hunters and we ought to maintain our solidarity around promoting this wonderful tradition for all who follow it. And, we're the "United States of America", not the Republic of North Dakota or Washington, and we should encourage the sharing of the great natural resources with which we are blessed.

Like you, I want what's best for upland birds and waterfowl. We lost our "right" to hunt Sharptails in Washington State when we developed eastern Washington for agriculture and destroyed much of the habitat in which this species had thrived.

Thanks for listening. And thanks for sharing ND's glorious bird hunting opportunities with me.

I'm done.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

lots of stinky grouse in the north central part of sd


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

In the OP, Old Hunter wasn't saying that it should just be closed for non-residents...he just made the observation of guys coming in and pounding sharptails for a week or two, that it's a contributor. Obviously the main contributor is habitat loss and weather. Wildlife should not be managed based on how much money is made off of them.

It is kind of startling to see population reports in ND...deer way down, pheasants going down, sharptails down, huns way down, antelope season closed, sage grouse closed, about the only population doing well right now is waterfowl and that is poised to collapse too whenever some drier weather returns. Yet there are some who argue that we shouldn't do more in line with conservation...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> It is kind of startling to see population reports in ND...deer way down, pheasants going down, sharptails down, huns way down, antelope season closed, sage grouse closed, about the only population doing well right now is waterfowl and that is poised to collapse too whenever some drier weather returns. Yet there are some who argue that we shouldn't do more in line with conservation...


I totally agree with this statement. But what needs to be conserved is Habitat. In the past 5 years what has been the biggest decline/change in ND landscape.... CRP coming out and crops getting put in. So what is getting lost??? HABITAT!!! What thrives in CRP?? Everything you listed above (deer, upland game, waterfowl breeding, etc) Now I am not blaming farmers one bit because it is their livelihood and if CRP payments don't equal what you can make by putting in a crop. I would be putting in a crop myself as well. But people would rather blame or point the finger elsewhere to why hunting is in decline or the perceived quality of "hunting" has declined. Instead of looking in the mirror or looking across the street.

I have seen it in my home state. In my area about 20 years ago was some of the best pheasant hunting around. You could go out and two guys would get a limit almost every time out without hammering couple spots of CRP fields. There was multiple places to hunt that didn't get pounded by every hunter in a 4 county radius. You had many spots to choose from. But the contracts came up and the government couldn't match the price of what someone could get on rent or income made from farming that piece of land. Then came in the drain tile and plows. Pheasant populations declined and so did local waterfowl population. It was all because of Habitat loss.

Instead of pushing to lower NR hunter numbers people should be pushing for some of the money generated by license sales and oil revenue to go towards habitat. That habitat could be to help the PLOTS program and CRP seeding on private lands, making more public land purchases which hold habitat (CRP, wild/native grasslands), state refuges, etc. NR hunters can't do a thing about that it takes residents to push for these things to happen because they have a vote and a voice to be heard. Finally MN did it with the sales tax.....now the idiots in the state government want to use it for dog parks and things like that.... :shake: uke: But much of it has gone to improve boat landings, public access, habitat and land purchases. So it is starting to turn around and needs some tweeking and time to really start to see the benefits.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Bingo. http://cleanwaterwildlifeparks.org/ They are looking for petiton circulators right now. :beer:


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## specialpatrolgroup (Jan 16, 2009)

I grew up in MN, and own hunting land in MN and have to pay non resident fee's not to mention I am not eligible for certain seasons. There are probably a lot of people like me who grew up in ND and moved out of state for work but still go back home to hunt which is why I don't mind non resident permits.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I agree that habitat is the issue but note that it is the loss of winter habitat that is probably the biggest impact. That is where CRP had it's greatest effect. Before CRP game had shelter belts and tree claims to winter in. But now even those are disappearing. Game can certainly survive in the agricultural fields from April through October with little trouble.

I think that limiting harvest can have just as much effect as closing the season. You still offer the oportunity to hunt, but by reducing the bag limit you protect the population in two ways. Obviously you reduce the individual hunters harvest but you will also reduce hunter numbers, particularly for those who are more interested in filling thier vest than just being afield.

I won't begrudge anyone taking a full limit now and then but true sportsmen with a good feel for their hunting area know how far they can push it. Sadly the hunters that whipe out a covey will be the one screaming the loudest when they can't find any birds the next year.

There are an awfull lot of fair weather hunters out there that when the going gets tough...............They just go home and complain...........


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## ChukarBob (Sep 4, 2006)

Good points! I will gladly limit my harvest to help a game species and am fortunate that I don't know any "freezer hunters". Given the reduced number of Sharptails and Huns this season, for me it's a season to let these birds go to breed for a better future. Sure, hunting is a factor of secondary importance in the rise and fall of a game species, but by limiting our take we can play a role in promoting a recovery, even if it's just a small role.


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## 9manfan (Oct 22, 2008)

I personally don't put much hype into a few hunters over harvesting a few birds as the reason for the decline in numbers, here is SW MN., not that long ago we had alot of CRP land, we had some mild winters and good spring nesting conditions, that translated into some of the best pheasent hunting I have ever seen around here, and it lasted quite a few years.
Now fast forward a few years, alot of CRP is gone, we had a couple bad winters, acouple horrible wet springs and our pheasent numbers are what they used to be, not very good, I believe it all comes down habitat and weather, some things just cyle every few years also.


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