# Initial impressions, first shoot with my Savage 12FLV .308



## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Here is my first run with my new Savage 12FLV .308.

[siteimg]602[/siteimg]

Went out shooting yesterday. It was good, sorta. I don't ever seem to get out shooting enough, so when I go, I bring EVERYTHING!

Anyhow, I bedded the scope base and set up the scope on Friday. I think I got it pretty close. Being a retired carpenter, I have plenty of levels, clamps, etc, to make the job easy.

Being that this was the first time out, I went cheap with the ammo for the .308, Indian made military ball ammo. Maybe I shouldn't have??

I cleaned the barrel per Plainsman's specs with JB prior to shooting. I then cleaned it with some solvent and a jag followed by clean patches for each shot for the first 6 or so, then again after the next 3, 6 and 10, or something close to that.

All shooting was done at roughly 50 yards, (paced it off).

Initial impressions:

Accu-trigger ROCKS!

Shooting prone is hard and very uncomfortable, not used to it at all. Maybe a little fat?? Switched to a bench/table after a few rounds.

Scope's optics are sweet, eye relief is really picky (don't know if this is good or bad, rifles are new to me).

I need a cheek pad for stock. It was hard to find a consistent place for my face. Face too high, thank goodness I stuck with the 0 MOA base! Don't know if scope is mounted right for me yet?

Shooting from a bench has way more felt recoil than shooting freehand.

Military ball ammo SUCKS! The Savage was all over the place. I mean like 4-6" groups! At first I thought I had no talent, but then I shot a 15 round group out of a Winchester 9422 lever action with an old Bushnell 4x that was only 1.5"(see photo). Not that I was trying super-hard, but I at least knew it was partially the ammo, not all me. I knew not to expect much from that ammo, but, given the range of 50 yards, I found it quite horrible.
[siteimg]600[/siteimg]
*50 yards w/ .22*

Anyhow, I ran 60 rounds through the Savage. The last 10 were 2 5-shot groups(see photo). I shot them in about 1-1.5 minutes with about 2 minutes between groupings. The first was my best of the day at 2.125" the second was pretty typical at 4". For the sake of my barrel, am I shooting too quickly? Is the second grouping a result of a hot barrel? How hot is too hot? How often between shots?

[siteimg]599[/siteimg]
*50 yards w .308*

So that is where I sit right now. I want to work up some ammo for it soon.

I have many questions about reloading for it and I am going to post them up on the forum for sharing.

Is the brass from the ball ammo worth keeping?

Robert


----------



## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Robert,

PM sent.

huntin1


----------



## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

You would not need a cheek piece, if you had mounted your scope close to your barrel. Your rings are too high.

The accuracy sucks... at 50 yards, it should be one hole. I think your scope is not mounted correctly.


----------



## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Sasha and Abby said:


> You would not need a cheek piece, if you had mounted your scope close to your barrel. Your rings are too high.
> 
> The accuracy sucks... at 50 yards, it should be one hole. I think your scope is not mounted correctly.


You are right about the scope being high. However, the Farrell base came highly recommended as did the Burris Signature Zee rings, which do not come lower than medium hieght. So, for the set-up I wanted, the scope height was pretty much predetermined.

Huntin1 brought up a good point in a PM about the flimsy stock. It does appear to be contacting the barrel. I think I am going to attack it with a dremel.

I am definitely new to rifle shooting, so I am sure that my shooting technique needs some help. Will know more after next weekend.

RC


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

Before you go attacking anything with a dremel...

Loose the bipod and shoot from a sandbag or a pack. The pod alone will give you the groups your seeing.

Indian ammo may be to suspect as well. you would be better off to pull the bullets and burn the powder, sell the brass as scrap. This is the junk of all junk on the surplus market. There is a reason it sells for $.89 for 1000.

Part of the reason people hand load is to tailor an ammo for that specific rifle. Just because the indian junk isn't grouping, desn't necassarily mean something is wrong with the rifle. try a couple of differnet ammo types to see if something does better. if you start seing a pattern between brands and weights, then start to look at the rifle.

on the Farrell base, did you get the 20 MOA or the 0 base? You may be stuck with the medium bases if you get a 20 MOA base. MidwayUSA does have some Burris low rings, but not in the Signature series. This isn't all that bad. There are kits on the market that will provide risers for the stock that you could use as well. If need be you could get one and try it.

If the stock is a big concern, consider replacing it with a better stock. Bell & Carlson is one brand and HS precision is another choice. Money no object, concider a McMillan. How well is the pillars on this stock? Is there any movement?

There are two trains of thinking on stock fitment. Full floating and pressure. In a full floated stock, you should be able to slide a piece of paper between the stock and barrel. In a pressure setup, you should actually have about 2-3 pounds of pressure between the barrel and stock at the muzzle end of the stock. Both work, personaly though I like the full floated better. Metal contracts and expands at a different rate and amount than wood or plastic. This can change your point of impact conciderably.


----------



## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

Robert,
In my opinion, there is just no way you are going to be able to evaluate the potential of a new gun without quality ammo. Savage has a well deserved reputation for outstanding accuracy right out of the box. This level of performance has been enhanced by the addition of the accu-trigger. If you will now completely clean your barrel and test again with a few boxes of quality factory ammo, I think you will see a world of difference. The old phrase "garbage in, garbage out" comes to mind. Best of luck, Burl


----------



## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Checkedy-check that ammo man.

BTW: civilian/hunting arms can rarely stomach millitary surpluss ammo. It just doesnt work well in them. i think thats a major part of your problem. The ammo your shooting is intended for something like a CETME or a G3. guns like that are made to stomach poorer quality ammo, and arnt all that accurate to begin with, so it makes little difference.

For Hunting arms, Seller & Bellot is the minimum. Anything cheaper than that will probably get you junk results in a Civilian Arm.

Again, unless your sooting somehting like an SKS or a CETME, stay away from the Economy ammo (Mill surpluss, Commi block ammo, or 3rd world ammo). And even then, only for plinking or similar uses. STuff like Wolf, Silver bear, and russian surpluss is marginal at best, even in guns made to tollerate such ammo.


----------



## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Robert,

There is nothing wrong with the way your scope is mounted and shooting from the bipod is not necessarily the culprit either. I never shoot from the bench and I always use a bipod. Here are a couple of examples of my groups, these are not the best but it's all I can access here at work right now.

100 yards:









200 yards:









I suspect the ammo and the fact that the forearm is touching the barrel are what is causing the problem. Get some of the material out of the forearm the way I told you in the PM and think about bedding the recoil lug as well, and get some good ammo. Certainly try it from sandbags too cause the Savage tupperware stocks are notorious for flexing.

huntin1


----------



## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

I appreciate all of the help. I think I am going to start on the stock. As much as I would like to get an aftermarket stock, I would rather spend the funds on reloading stuff for it first. Plus there was a slightly huge cost overrun on the rifle, scope, etc. If the wife only knew the magnitude.................

Anyhow, I plan to stiffen the stock by adding some steel. There are very detailed instructions on the web on how to improve the Savage "tupperware" stock. The barrel is supposed to be free floated, but with the bipod, the stock does contact the barrel ever so slightly, hence the dremel.
*
Note the uneven gap between barrel and stock on left vs. right side:*
[siteimg]604[/siteimg]

I knew that the surplus ammo would be bad, just not THAT bad. My reasoning for it was twofold. First, I needed to break-in the barrel, and secondly, all of my other choices were like $17.50 a box. So given $4.20 per 20 vs. $17.50 per 20...............I had to go with what was available.

I am going to be picking some brains soon for .308 pet loads. I haven't reloaded in about 10 years so there is going to be a learning curve.

Robert


----------



## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Also don't do groups from a bipod. Use sand bags :sniper:


----------

