# WW2 Article on Hypocrisy-Interesting



## BillThomas

MYTH 1. THE GERMAN NATION IS AN AGGRESSIVE NATION

The facts prove otherwise. A Study of War by Prof. Quincy Wright, shows that in the period from 1480 to 1940 there were 278 wars involving European countries whose percentage participation was as follows:

ENGLAND28% 
FRANCE26% 
SPAIN23% 
RUSSIA22% 
AUSTRIA19% 
TURKEY15% 
POLAND11% 
SWEDEN9% 
ITALY9% 
NETHERLANDS8% 
*GERMANY (INCLUDING PRUSSIA)8% *
DENMARK7%

Likewise, Pitirim Sorokin, Vol.111, Part.11, Social and Cultural Dynamics, shows that from the 12th Century to 1925 the percentage of years in which leading European powers have been at war is as follows. (p.352).



> COUNTRY PERCENTAGE OF YEARS AT WAR
> 
> SPAIN67%
> POLAND58%
> ENGLAND56%
> FRANCE50%
> RUSSIA46%
> HOLLAND44%
> ITALY36%
> GERMANY28%
> 
> Sorokin concludes therefore, "that Germany has had the smallest and Spain the largest percent of years at war." Of leading modern European states, England, France and Russia show clearly twice the aggressive tendencies of Germany.


James Baker III, Secretary of State under Reagan and Bush I said in the German magazine Der Spiegel 2/92:

'WE PAINTED HITLER AS A MONSTER, A DEVIL AND THAT IS WHY WE COULD NOT MOVE AWAY FROM THAT PORTRAYAL AFTER THE WAR. 
WE HAD MOBILISED THE MASSES AGAINST THE DEVIL INCARNATE AND SO WE WERE FORCED TO CONTINUE IN THIS SATANTIC SCENARIO AFTER THE WAR. 
WE COULD NOT POSSIBLY HAVE EXPLAINED TO OUR PEOPLE THAT THE WAR HAD ACTUALLY BEEN ONLY A PREVENTATIVE ECONOMIC MEASURE!' 
(That is why the best of Europe had to die.)

The twisting of the truth is not very Christian, don't you think? 
Its dream of world conquest foiled&#8230; 
I would have thought that this old canard would have died a peaceful death, but no, you must bring it back. 
All historians of the period know that it was just propaganda. How can a nation of 80 million go on the rampage to conquer the world? There is of course one which did just that: Great Britain, but which you seem to consider justified in doing so.

Have you asked the relatives of the 5 million Irish Starved to death, or the 30 odd million Indians who died in the same way, or the Boers in South Africa in the worlds first Concentration Camps, invented BY the British.. 
The British Empire was created not to bring light to the world but because Britain ran out of silver.

At the same time the yeomen were being thrown out of their farms to make room for extensive sheep farming by the so-called gentry. 
Parliament passed a law stating that anybody loitering should be hanged, but there wree so many of these unfortunates that it was found more expedient to press gang them onto ships and send them to other parts of the world to steal, rape and murder.

At that time, as now, the trade ran from the East to the West and the silver the other way round, therefore Britain having no silver mines and having plundered the Spaniards, now decided that it would be nice to go and steal the silver from the treasury of Bengal. 
So they sent Clive and his fleet and found mountains of silver. Britain was back in business for a while. 
And of course, sinc ethe King was God's representative on earth, all the mayhem was done in the name of God, which of course for the victims must have been a boon. (Brooke Adams, The laws of civilisation and decay)

During my stay in England in the 60's, our history teacher stated that Germany started two wars. I raised my hand and said that during the same period, England was involved in 28 wars. 
The teacher replied that those were COLONIAL wars. so I asked him if the life of an Englishman was more important than the life of a Chinese in God's eyes. He could not answer that one, but he did not like me so much afterwards. For this is the crux of the matter.

Who gave Britain the right to trample on the people of the world? Who gave the Zionist Anglo American Empire the right to murder the people of Iraq or Afghanistan? 
Who gave a bunch of Turko Mongol Khazars from the North of the Caucasus, converted to Judaism in the 9th Century AD, the right to steal the land of the Palestinians. Did God do that? For you to reply.

WWII began in 1939 when Adolf Hitler openly broke agreements with neighboring countries&#8230; WRONG. 
WWII started in 1933, 58 days after Hitler was democratically elected to power. All main newspapers in the world had for headlines: JUDEA DECLARES WAR ON GERMANY.

That declaration in fact meant that every Jew within the ambit of the Reich became an enemy alien and at the time enemy aliens were consigned to concentration camps. 
Ask the Japanese, Italian, Germans and others in the US of A. In germany, the Jewish Agencies were active till 1941 and were organising the emigration of Jews toward Palestine, the US (see US immigration statistics) and other countries.

Germany did not break agreements with its neighbouring nation as you imply. 
It was negotiating with POLAND for a one mile wide rail and road lik to its province of East Prussia. 
The deal was almost done when Britain and reluctantly France under US pressure (Rooseveldt needed a war afte rthe Great Depression).

That guarantee was supposed to secure ALL the Polish borders against ALL aggression, but in fact it was aimed at Germany only. When the Soviets invaded from the east, the guarantee had long been forgotten. 
With the support of the Western countries, POLAND BROKE ALL NEGOTIATIONS WITH GERMANY, MOBILISED ITS ARMY AND MARCHED TOWARD THE BORDER.

A general mobilisation was deemed at the time as a declaration of war. The Poles were so sure of their victory, that they had commissioned a huge painting of the Polish president marching through the streets of Berlin.
It was found half finished when the Germans took over the presidential palace. At the same time, Polish communist irregulars were busy mass murdering the German population of the Corridor forcing Hitler to intervene to save his brethren. 
The rest is history.

FRANCE AND BRITAIN DECLARED WAR ON GERMANY (not the other way around). Germany did not attack them till a year later when it had exhausted all possibilities of peace.

Then its better led forces smashed the French armies. 
The British contingent ran for the Channel where HITLER WHO STILL THOUGHT THAT PEACE WAS POSSIBLE, LET THEM ESCAPE AS A GESTURE OF GOODWILL. 
Contrary to what you have been told, Germany did not start the blitz on England.

ENGLISH BOMBERS HAD BEEN BOMBING GERMAN TOWNS WITHOUT REGARD FOR THE CIVILIAN POPULATION FOR OVER THREE MONTHS BEFORE HITLER RETALIATED.

Millions of Jews, Czechs and Poles were deported to work as slave laborers in German factories etc. There was no need for slave labour in slave factories as thousands upon thousands of Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, French, Dutch, Belgians etc. worked WILLINGLY for the war effort.

They had the same pay and labour conditions as the German workers. 
A Dutch friend of mine who worked in one at the time even told me that the Jews working there were receiving Kosher food which included more proteins such as beans.

He also asked to have the same food and got it. The only sign of discrimination was that the Jews were eating with wooden spoons and non-Jews with metal spoons. 
He has never been able to find the reason. 
As to the concentration camps, which were in fact vast industrial estates, there have been so many lies, that it has become a religion where myths must be believed under threat of the Holy Inquisition. 
In many countries of Europe, you are jailed just for querying aspects of the official truth. BUT IF THE TRUTH MUST BE PROTECTED BY JAIL SENTENCES, IT CANNOT BE THE TRUTH.

The German war machine of WWII stands unequalled in modern Western civilisation for its efficiency (correct), destructiveness (wrong) and brutality (wrong). You must have seen too many Hollywood films and Action Heroes comic books. The German army was efficient, there is no doubt, but it was a disciplined army.

Rape was punished by firing squad for example, unlike the US and Russian armies where it was a national sport. After the landing in Normandy, US commanders were complaining that the French were sullen and did not want to be liberated, at least not the US way with waves of ******* raping the French women.

In four years of occupation of France there were less rapes by German soldiers than in ONE WEEK of Western Allied occupation of Germany. Paris, Rome, Brussels and all other Western towns were left untouched by the German army, while the British and US Air force razed French and German towns and the women and children sheltering them. 
Germany was razed against all the tenets of the Geneva Convention regarding the treatment of civilians in war time. You can talk of brutality and destructiveness&#8230;!

Why did Germany descend into tyranny? IT DID NOT. 
The people democratically elected the National Socialist Party to power. In three years, the unemployment rate passed from 50% to 0%. 
Its workers had the best protective laws in Europe at the time, they were the first to enjoy paid holidays, canteens in factories, health check-ups, cruises for deserving workers. Those laws are still in existence in Holland, so they must have been good. 
After the chaos of the Weimar Republic which your Mr Barzini seems to have loved so much, it was a breath of fresh air for the German people. THEY WERE FREE FROM THE SHACKLES OF VERSAILLES AND THEY HAD RECOVERED THEIR DIGNITY.

This did not please the International bankers who pushed for boycott of German goods as Hitler refused to borrow money from them. His motto was that a sovereign state should not borrow from a bank.

It can create its own money, interest free, in sufficient quantity to finance the needs of the nation. As the Western nations tried to destroy the National Socialist revolution through boycott, Germany went on to barter trade and gave a better deal to the nations of the Third World than the greedy US, Brits and French.

Germany grabbed the entire South American market, which did not please the greedy nations. 
As Churchill said, THE UNFORGIVABLE CRIME OF GERMANY BEFORE THE SECOND WORLD WAR WAS ITS ATTEMPT TO TAKE ITS TRADE STRENGTH OUT OF THE WORLD FINANCE SYSTEM AND TO BUILD ITS SYSTEM OF GOODS FOR GOODS TRADE IN WHICH CASE WORLD FINANCE WOULD NO LONGER RECEIVE ANY PROFIT. (MEMOIRS)

Lewis Wyndham stated it in a different way&#8230; 
WHAT HERR HITLER IS REQUIRED TO DO IS TO MERGE GERMANY INTO THE LEAGUE OF MONOPOLIST STATES. THE PEACE-LOVING NATIONS ARE MORE HEAVILY ARMED THAN YOU ARE, HERR HITLER, AND HAVE UNLIMITED RESOURCES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, AND THEY WILL UNQUESTIONABLY MAKE WAR ON YOU IF YOU DO NOT SUBMIT TO THEIR WILL AND IF YOU PERSIST IN GOING ON WITH THIS SOVEREIGN STATE STUFF. 
Source: "County your dead: they are alive" p. 318.

In 1938, Churchill sent an open letter to Adolf Hitler: 
"If England should ever suffer a national misfortune like that of Germany's of 1918, I will pray to God to send us a man of your power of will and spirit." 
The self same Churchill, seeing the rise of the Soviet Union, made this strange admission 1945: WE SLAUGHTERED THE WRONG PIG. 
By that time it was too late.

To find Germany leading the effort to unite Europe today is not surprising as the idea has been part of German cultural heritage for more than a thousand years&#8230;. Is that a crime? Germany is the centre of Europe and it is therefore in its interest that peace prevails on the continent. England on the contrary has always been the troublemaker on the continent&#8230;

Churchill in his memoirs states: ENGLAND WILL NOT TOLERATE A RISING POWER IN THE MIDDLE OF EUROPE. Any idea who was responsible for the conflict?

Why did so many Germans accept the "master race" concept and the destructive policies of Hitler's Third Reich? Very strange statement indeed. There is only one people on this Earth who thinks it is the master race. Just read the Old Testament and you will have an idea. 
The same people calls the rest of us *****, meaning human cattle which can be slaughtered, raped, robbed, fleeced by the Chosen of the Lord as their rightful booty. These are the real UBERMENSCH.

In fact the Germans have been the most pacifist of the lot. They did not create an empire outside their territories, except for a few pieces of Africa they inherited from the scramble. 
As to humility, compassion and charity, I am sure you find that in the British and the Americans. Ask the victims of the empire! They will tell you. In fact Christianity should be thankful to the Germans for, when corruption threatened to overcome the Church and destroy it, it was first Alaric the Goth who saved the faith when he invaded corrupt Rome and later Martin Luther and its Reformation.

Prussia was recognized as the most thoroughly militarized power in Europe and one of the most self sufficient and prosperous. Nothing wrong with that. Militarization brings discipline and discipline brings prosperity. One could say the same of China today, while the US is floundering in a sea of iniquity. Nothing can be built without discipline. 
That is the reason for the success of the German nation.

As to blood and iron, I cannot quite understand your argument. How do you think the British Empire was built? 
What do you think George Bush is doing in Iraq? 
Why has the US over 700 bases all over the world? That is really the pot calling the kettle black.

Germans are good at everything they do, be it in peace or in war. 
In fact Germany is the only country in Europe which lost territories over the centuries. Wherever there have been German settlers, those countries prospered. 
In fact the largest population group in the US is that of German Americans. Those were the builders of America. The present Zionist rulers of America, on the other hand, will drag it to the ground.

-C.M. MATHEY

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GERMANY DID NOT WANT WAR

"I believe now that Hitler and the German people did not want war. 
But we declared war on Germany, intent on destroying it, in accordance with our principle of balance of power, and we were encouraged by the 'Americans' around Roosevelt. We ignored Hitler's pleadings not to enter into war. Now we are forced to realize that Hitler was right." - Attorney General, Sir. Hartley Shawcross, March,16th, 1984

"The last thing Hitler wanted was to produce another great war." - Sir. Basil Liddell Hart

"I see no reason why this war must go on. I am grieved to think of the sacrifices which it will claim. I would like to avert them." - Adolf Hitler, July, 1940.

Winston Churchill agrees: "We entered the war of our own free will, without ourselves being directly assaulted." - Guild Hall Speech, July 1943.


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## Plainsman

So are you saying we were the bad guys and Hitler was the hero?


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## Chuck Smith

I don't get the post??

So the invasion of Poland or even Prauge (Czech Republic disappeared) had nothing to do with it? The injustices that happened to many of the citizens of Germany had nothing to do with it? The mobilization of the German army and air force had nothing to do with it? The fact that Germany lost occupied land because of WWI and that did not sit well with German's still living in that land and with many of the German people? The fact that Italy was invading land and Italy was an Allie to Germany? Japan invading China? The breaking of the Treaty of Versallies (Germany rebuilding its army)?? I could go on and on listing things that started the war.

There are always 2 sides to a war....both sides will point fingers as to who started, who wanted to start it, or why it was started. Then you will have professors ( uke: ) who will write a paper and give OPINION based loosely on pieced together facts because they know they will get $$$ from somewhere.

So this one paper or this one article you found means all the other history books, papers, OPINIONS, teachings, etc are wrong about how WWII started?? If so that must mean everything written about how GWB is an idiot for going into Iraq and Afgan so far is wrong and he was a genius. :beer: :wink:


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## Plainsman

Chuck I suppose the American Nazi party puts out propaganda. I once worked with an old German fellow who thought Hitler was a hero and didn't do anything he was accused of.


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## Chuck Smith

Plainsman..... to many Hitler was a hero. He got Germany out of a depression. He unified a nation. He got economic growth and made Germany a world player in industry and economics. His Politics or what he did for the country was great. It is what his personal agenda and philosophy's is what made him evil or considered evil.

edit: It is like with Jerry Sandusky. He founded many good foundations, donated lots of money and time for kids. Yet what he did to a handful of kids (that we know of or who came forward) he needs to burn in hell for eternity.


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## People

at least not the US way with waves of ******* raping the French women.

"The *****. Americas dancinest rape folk." Lois Griffin "Family Guy"


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## duckp

Ahhh,I see,the 6 million Jews thing never happened;Mein Kampf was a kiddie book about Alice in Vunderland;and Poland/Czech/Austria/Sudentanland/Belgium/France/Russia and the rest of Europe invaded Germany.
Right.
Bill Thomas is a garbage man I guess.


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## Gooseguy10

What BT wants the reader to take away from his post is....that we shouldn't have such a negative view of Germany due to the fact that (according to his facts/stats) other nations have been much more aggressive throughout world history.

Taking his previous posting history, what the reader should take away from his post is that he is trying to convince the reader that Hitler/Germany's destruction of European Jews was justifiable and not as bad as compared to other nations throughout history. In short, Nazi's/Hitler = misunderstood and Jews = bad.

It is hard to believe that these type of people are still around but to each their own....I guess.

Also, instead of comparing number of wars, it would be interesting to see a list of number of deaths (military/civilian) caused by those wars. Germany would spike to the top by a long shot!!! But bend the stats however you want.

And no, I don't buy your stats regarding the 300 million North American Native American dead.


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## Plainsman

> And no, I don't buy your stats regarding the 300 million North American Native American dead


Did he say 300 million or 30 million? Either way:

Good catch Gooseguy I missed that. I remember a class in population dynamics. Remember how many blacks some claim were thrown overboard when the slave ships crossed the Atlantic from Africal to America? First off a slave was money so they sure as heck wouldn't throw gold overboard. Second there are as many people alive on earth today (well this was a 1970 class) as have ever lived on earth. At the time the slave trade occured the entire population of the African continent was not as many people as some claim were thrown overboard.

What I am getting at is the Native Americans alive today and all that have ever existed would not equal 30 million. So much for those statistics.


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## Gooseguy10

Good catch re. 30 million vs. 300 million. To be honest, I didn't read his entire post due to the length, totally biased content and intent.


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## huntin1

I'm really rather speechless, I knew that this level of ignorance concerning WW2 still existed, but did not think that anyone with half a brain believed it. I guess I was wrong.

huntin1


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## wurgs

Bill,
I have nothing against the country of Germany but that POS Hilter and his 3rd Reich can rot in hell.

Tell the relatives of the 6-7 million jews that got slaughtered what a nice guy Hilter was.


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## Gun Owner

http://video.adultswim.com/family-guy/c ... oland.html


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## People

You have to love those beer halls.

Every Communist must grasp the truth: Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun. Hitler was an amateur in the ways of killing people when you look at the grand scheme of things. Stalin had killed what something like 30+ million. Then Mao killed something like 50 to 75 million. I was not able to find stats on how many died from starvation or if those were put into the total figure.

The quickest way to a man's heart is with Chuck Norris' fist.


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## BillThomas

duckp said:


> Ahhh,I see,the 6 million Jews thing never happened;Mein Kampf was a kiddie book about Alice in Vunderland;and Poland/Czech/Austria/Sudentanland/Belgium/France/Russia and the rest of Europe invaded Germany.
> Right.
> Bill Thomas is a garbage man I guess.


The USA put Japanese and Italians IN Concentration Camps Here IN America.
They were declared Enemy Combatants. So too were Jews in Germany. 
*Front page News Headline London Times Express in 1933*









Sort of a thread hijack, but Do you wish to debate the supposed 6 million dead too? 
What of the 60 Million who died IN WW2, fighting over a border skirmish-Danzig?
(Or the 66 million Christians killed by them in USSR from 1917-1949....No mention from you of that Genocide though, right?

Does anyone Really think that 6 million people died in this 2 car, Garage Size, vented Room by use of Bug & Lice insecticide spray (Zyklon B) In 18 months?










Simple Math refutes it.

It takes 3 hours to Process & Cremate a body, using todays modern forced gas Crematorium.
Thats 8 bodies per day. (Not counting maintenance, cleaning, repairs etc.) 
8 bodies per day = 240 bodies per month = 3000 bodies per year.
With 15 Crematorium, as alleged by 'eyewitnesses,' thats 45,000-70,000 bodies.

The red Cross (ICRC) who made 80,000+ visits to Germanys camps with fulls access rights(None to USSR, as they werent allowed any visits, noted that only 271,000 died in all of the Camps, due to Typhus and Poor conditions from Allied Bombings of the Rail lines ie insufficient resources.
I will later uploand this document for review.


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## BillThomas

Here we see the Auschwitz memorial, 
Its interesting that that 2.5 Million were lowered & revised, yet the total number dead, was not changed.
Where did 2.5 Less Million people go?

Pre 1990









TO 









Notice there were even Brothels for the prisoners IN Auschwitz, as incentives (Reuters News Sevice article). 
Not to mention Soccer, theatre, Library, Swim Pool, Symphony, Synagogue, Birth records, marriage records et al
Auschwitz Swim Pool for camp inmates









*Auschwitz Camp Brothel-Reuters *


> By Alexandra Hudson, Reuters News
> 
> KAMPEN, Netherlands, July 11 (Reuters) -For decades no one wanted to remember the concentration camp "special blocks" where the Nazis forced female inmates to entertain their male peers.
> 
> Nazi commander Heinrich Himmler had ordered the creation of camp brothels in 1941. His logic was chilling -- male prisoners would work harder if offered the incentive of sex, and if only a few had this privilege it would crush solidarity.
> 
> As the horrors of Hitler's death camps emerged, the brothels swiftly became taboo. The mainly German women who had staffed them were too scarred by the experience to speak of it, whereas the male inmates who used them remained silent in shame.
> Now an exhibition in Ravensbrueck women's concentration camp north of Berlin aims to shed light on the brothels and expose the Nazis' sinister attempt to manipulate prisoners' sexuality.
> 
> One man who tried to break this enduring silence is former Buchenwald prisoner Albert van Dijk, a Dutchman from the town of Kampen, close to the German border.
> "Often I raised the subject of the 'special block' at meetings of former inmates of Buchenwald, but nobody ever wanted to discuss it or they said I was mistaken," said Van Dijk.
> 
> The 83-year-old still vividly recalls how at the age of 18, among the despair and degradation of the camp, he fell for a blonde prostitute called Frieda and lost his virginity to her in the "special block".
> Although prostitution was officially forbidden by the Nazis, the elite SS guards had set up a network of brothels catering to German soldiers, forced labourers and prisoners, which they intended in part to stamp out homosexuality.
> 
> From 1942 onwards, 200-300 gentile prisoners from the camp were forced to work in 10 camp brothels across Germany, Austria and Poland. Almost all had been imprisoned as "anti-social".
> At first some women volunteered for service as prostitutes, falsely informed they would be released after 6 months. Later they were forcibly recruited during roll call or even from the camp sick bay.
> 
> Although the women got slightly better rations and could wear civilian clothes, the work reduced most to physical wrecks. Many caught sexually transmitted diseases, were subject to medical experiments or were forced to have abortions.
> Each woman used a small room where male prisoners, after a brief examination, were allowed 15 minutes. Guards looked through peep holes to check sex only took place lying down, as stated in the rules.
> 
> After a full day of work in the camp, women spent two hours each night entertaining male prisoners, who paid two Reichsmark. Those who came to them held the most privileged positions among the hierarchy of prisoners, and had the best rations. The vast majority of the male prisoners were much too weak for sex.


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## Plainsman

> The USA put Japanese and Italians IN Concentration Camps Here IN America.
> They were declared Enemy Combatants. So too were Jews in Germany.


No one is saying it was right to put Japanese and Italians in camps. So that doesn't justify your friend Hitler.

Also, no one is saying all those Jewish people died in that little room in your photo. The killing was much more wide spread than that. Further, the millions dying at the hands of communists doesn't take away anything from the criminal acts of Hitler. If communists countries are rich and short of food they will quickly kill the weak to make more for themselves. If your in a poor communist country they will take what you have so you starve faster and they don't have to waste a bullet on you. Kind people in those governments that Obama admires.

So were we wrong to come to the aid of those oppressed by Hitler, or should we just have sat on our hands as Ron Paul suggests. Once those countries were defeated do you think Hitler would have stopped. I think it was better to fight him on the battlefields of Europe than the battlefields of North Dakota. Look at the aggressors throughout history and you will find hiding under your bed doesn't work.



> Notice there were even Brothels for the prisoners IN Auschwitz


 Did you even read what you posted? So you think this was a benefit to the Jewish people?



> -For decades no one wanted to remember the concentration camp "special blocks" where the Nazis forced female inmates to entertain their male peers.


So you think this is sex BT? I call it rape. So do you still think it's cool?


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## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> What I am getting at is the Native Americans alive today and all that have ever existed would not equal 30 million. So much for those statistics.


It was about 20-30 million Indians that were systematically wiped out, using mostly biological warfare on them ie Smallpox Blankets. (Texas Population is 25 million, Florida is 18 mil) so this is quite logical & correct.

This practice of germ warfare, was of course invented by a Zionist aka Jacob Amhearst, and defended by Protestants and others that took part in it.
We wont even discuss the treaties we made them sign & agree to, that they couldnt read.

Amhearst even had a College named after him.. Strange..?


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## Plainsman

Bill the atrocities of old do not justify being a pansy today in the face of real threat. There were atrocities from both sides of the conflict between European and American natives. I guess that's true in most wars. However, it's disappointing that liberals only see our own atrocities. I am not trying to justify our atrocities or the atrocities of others, but I do point out that the atrocities of the past will happen again if we try play pacifist. The only difference is they will happen to us with no resistance. A dog who exposes his throat to show respect to the dominant or alpha position is normally not harmed. Unfortunately man isn't yet that civilized. Show your throat to Hitler, Ahmadinejad, etc and they would cut it without blinking an eye.

There are many who like to call Islam a peaceful religion. There are two types that do that. Those who are true pacifists and don't understand the world, and radical Muslims who are telling us to be calm and let the poison work. It's working well in Belgium, France, England, and has a good start here.

Edit: Bill the North American continent has never seen 30 million native Americans within the time frame you speak of. Not even close. Not 50%, not 25% and 10% would be questionable. That means ever alive not killed. Look into population dynamics and hunter gatherer cultures. Like Africa this continent would not support populations even close with those cultures. Someone has talked you into believing the impossible. Of course you can find racists who will dispute this for political gain.


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## Chuck Smith

So Bill.... What about the mass graves? Starvation? Not all people went into the gas chambers and were cremated. Read more history books.

Now lets talk your hatred for Bush and the Iraq war some of the reasons for going was the brutality that the Husseins were doing to the people....genocide, torture, rape, etc..



> (Or the 66 million Christians killed by them in USSR from 1917-1949....No mention from you of that Genocide though, right?


So what about the genocide and the atrosities that happened to the people. Since the olympics just got over with...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

His Wiki Page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uday_Hussein

More
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uday_Hussein

Sorry to hijack the thread. But


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## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> There are many who like to call Islam a peaceful religion. There are two types that do that. Those who are true pacifists and don't understand the world, and radical Muslims who are telling us to be calm and let the poison work. It's working well in Belgium, France, England, and has a good start here..


Radical Islam is not creating military bases around the globe, fighting BS Wars, inciting Civil wars as we are in Syria, Libya, Eghypt et al or overthrowing democracies across the Globe as the USA is.












> Edit: Bill the North American continent has never seen 30 million native Americans within the time frame you speak of. Not even close. Not 50%, not 25% and 10% would be questionable. That means ever alive not killed. Look into population dynamics and hunter gatherer cultures. Like Africa this continent would not support populations even close with those cultures. Someone has talked you into believing the impossible. Of course you can find racists who will dispute this for political gain.


Youre talking the population of people in an area the size of Florida or Texas.
Factor this over many decades/century as a Policy OF the USA, across most of the USA, and Yes, it is plausible, realistic and logical, and YES, it did happen-the Genocide of the US Indian.
What we did to the Indians was disgusting by anyones measure.


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## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> So Bill.... What about the mass graves? Starvation?
> Not all people went into the gas chambers and were cremated. Read more history books. ?


So Where are the 'Mass graves' 
Each body leaves 6 pounds of bone & ash. 
6 million and we would have football fields of fragments of bone. Where are they? They dont exist....
and YES, the so called preferred method of killing was supposedly the gas chambers.



> Now lets talk your hatred for Bush and the Iraq war some of the reasons for going was the brutality that the Husseins were doing to the people....genocide, torture, rape, etc..


Saddam hanged for killing 151 Shiites. Thats it. ..
And the USA told those very shiites to rebel, they did and we left them to BE Killed.
So now, we have 4 million Orhphans, 5 million refugees, and $1 trillion spent in a needless occupation, unless you factor oil being shipped to Haifa Israel as important. 
Saddam was a well liked US Puppet until he decided to demand EUROs rather than US Fiat notes for his Oil.












> So what about the genocide and the atrosities that happened to the people. Since the olympics just got over with...


Iraq was the Gem of the Middle East, free college & health care for all, 1st World roads and infrastructures.
Now its a hell hole, courtesy of the USA. Blood washes very slowly.

All worse when you factor in the Lies, we are not at war, we are enforcing UN Resolutions, both are proven lies..
NO WMDs, NO 911 ties.


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## People

BillThomas said:


> Radical Islam is not creating military bases around the globe, fighting BS Wars, inciting Civil wars as we are in Syria, Libya, Eghypt et al or overthrowing democracies across the Globe as the USA is.


Radical Islam is not building bases everywhere. Who needs a base to store some explosives so you can blow some stuff apart?

There are US troops (Marines) anywhere we have a US embassy. They are called Marine Security Guard's.


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## huntin1

BillThomas said:


> Saddam hanged for killing 151 Shiites. Thats it. ..





> Tom Grey answers David Crow's request the empirical basis for his statement on the number of dead under Saddam Hussein. "See http://www.gbn.org/ArticleDisplayServle ... 0&msp=1242 Here is an excerpt:":Along with other human rights organizations, *The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq.* Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power"


Bold added by me.

Here: http://wais.stanford.edu/Iraq/iraq_deat ... 42503.html

Now Hitler.



BillThomas said:


> Sort of a thread hijack, but Do you wish to debate the supposed 6 million dead too?





> The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστος holókaustos: hólos, "whole" and kaustós, "burnt"),[2] also known as the Shoah (Hebrew: השואה, HaShoah, "catastrophe"; Yiddish: חורבן, Churben or Hurban,[3] from the Hebrew for "destruction"), was the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, a programme of systematic state-sponsored murder by Nazi Germany, led by Adolf Hitler, throughout Nazi-occupied territory.[4] Of the nine million Jews who had resided in Europe before the Holocaust, approximately two-thirds perished.[5] In particular, over one million Jewish children were killed in the Holocaust, as were approximately two million Jewish women and three million Jewish men.[6][7]
> 
> Some scholars maintain that the definition of the Holocaust should also include the Nazis' genocide of millions of people in other groups, including Romani, communists, Soviet prisoners of war, Polish and Soviet civilians, homosexuals, people with disabilities, Jehovah's Witnesses and other political and religious opponents, which occurred regardless of whether they were of German or non-German ethnic origin.[8] This was the most common definition from the end of WWII to the 1960s.[8] Using this definition, the total number of Holocaust victims is between 11 million and 17 million people.[9]


Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust

And Auschwitz was but one, there was Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Treblinka, Majdanek, Bełżec, Sobibór, and Chełmno along with the employment of other camps across Europe, including Dachau, Sachsenhausen, Mauthausen and Bergen-Belsen.

Bill, do you really believe the BS that you post? Are you really that ignorant of history, or are you just gullible, that ready to believe anything that agrees with your twisted view of reality? Pretty sad.

huntin1


----------



## Gooseguy10

BT. Regarding the numbers not adding up for 6 million dead during the Holocaust......you are correct....the holocaust number is actually closer to 7 million if you include all the other "non-desirables" such as homosexuals, intellectuals, political enemies, mentally handicapped etc. with the 6 million Jews.

1. There were literally dozens upon dozens of concentration camps....with Auschwitz being the biggest. Many of those camps had multiple gas chambers/ovens etc.

2. The death totals from the Holocaust were not just from the gas chambers. They include mass shootings, starvation, science experimentation and "liquidation" of ghettos.

3. The remains ashes were used as fertilizer in farm fields.

4. You can deny the holocaust all you want based on your flawed logic and monkey math but answer this, where did 2/3 of European Jews go between 1935 and 1945?

You compare the holocaust to Japanese/Italian internment.....where did the US use systematic mass genocide (ie gas chambers, systematic killing)? Compare the numbers involved with holocaust (millions......dead and survivors).....millions, compared to 100,000 Japanese interned. Both dark chapters of human history but not even close to the same comparison. But keep grasping.

You cite Stalin as another example of a mass murderer in history? What is your point? Do you think anyone who studies history, gives him a free pass? What does it tell you that you have to justify hitler's deeds by comparing him to the worlds biggest mass murderers?


----------



## BillThomas

Gooseguy10 said:


> BT. Regarding the numbers not adding up for 6 million dead during the Holocaust......you are correct....the holocaust number is actually closer to 7 million if you include all the other "non-desirables" such as homosexuals, intellectuals, political enemies, mentally handicapped etc. with the 6 million Jews.
> 
> 1. There were literally dozens upon dozens of concentration camps....with Auschwitz being the biggest. Many of those camps had multiple gas chambers/ovens etc.
> 
> 2. The death totals from the Holocaust were not just from the gas chambers. They include mass shootings, starvation, science experimentation and "liquidation" of ghettos.'
> 
> 3. The remains ashes were used as fertilizer in farm fields.
> 
> 4. You can deny the holocaust all you want based on your flawed logic and monkey math but answer this, where did 2/3 of European Jews go between 1935 and 1945?
> You compare the holocaust to Japanese/Italian internment.....where did the US use systematic mass genocide (ie gas chambers, systematic killing)? Compare the numbers involved with holocaust (millions......dead and survivors).....millions, compared to 100,000 Japanese interned. Both dark chapters of human history but not even close to the same comparison. But keep grasping.
> You cite Stalin as another example of a mass murderer in history? What is your point? Do you think anyone who studies history, gives him a free pass? What does it tell you that you have to justify hitler's deeds by comparing him to the worlds biggest mass murderers?


Old Almanacs Never Lie, Just the historians, as history is written by the victors.

World Jewish Population:

National Council of Churches 1930 - 15,600 ,000

American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 - 15,600,000

World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population- 15,319,359

World Almanac USA 1946 - 15,690,000

World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population- 15,713,638

Statistical Handbook of Council of Churches USA 1951 - 15,300,000

World Almanac, 1996, pg. 646: World Jewish Population- 14,117,000

No Jews were killed en masse, by shootings, gas chambers or other.
It is the greatest lie in the history of the world.
The Almanac figures dont lie. Truth doesnt fear scrutiny and questioning, Lies do.


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> Tom Grey answers David Crow's request the empirical basis for his statement on the number of dead under Saddam Hussein. "See http://www.gbn.org/ArticleDisplayServle ... 0&msp=1242 Here is an excerpt:":Along with other human rights organizations, *The Documental Centre for Human Rights in Iraq has compiled documentation on over 600,000 civilian executions in Iraq.* Human Rights Watch reports that in one operation alone, the Anfal, Saddam killed 100,000 Kurdish Iraqis. Another 500,000 are estimated to have died in Saddam's needless war with Iran. Coldly taken as a daily average for the 24 years of Saddam's reign, these numbers give us a horrifying picture of between 70 and 125 civilian deaths per day for every one of Saddam's 8,000-odd days in power"


The USA had a Civil war as well. 
Kurds were backed BY the CIA, and encouraged/armed to Revolt. Their revolt was put down.
But More have died in Iraq under US Occupation than Saddam in 25 years.
An oversight on your part, Im sure.



> Now Hitler.
> And Auschwitz was but one, there was Auschwitz, Buchenwald, Treblinka, Majdanek, Bełżec, Sobibór, and Chełmno along with the employment of other camps across Europe, including Dachau, Sachsenhausen, Mauthausen and Bergen-Belsen.


Auschwitz was the largest of all camps by far, and the Memorial itself was changed (Less 2.5 Million people) yet the totals were never revised. 
The Red Cross has only 271,000 dead, that includes elderly and natural causes.



> Bill, do you really believe the BS that you post? Are you really that ignorant of history, or are you just gullible, that ready to believe anything that agrees with your twisted view of reality? Pretty sad.
> huntin1


Spielberg and Hollywood would never lie. Nor our history books.

Interesting that in Memoirs from Roosevelt, DeGaulle, Churchill there isnt one word of Gas Chambers, Holocaust or 6 million in over 10,000 pages of writings..


----------



## BillThomas

Lets revisit this one more time.









And its interesting that in 1919, the same 6 Million headline was used, And also again in 1931.
Was this Story released 20 years too early? Oops.

*11/12/19 News Story of 6 million Plight 
NY Times*









*Again in 1931*


----------



## BillThomas

This is the official report from the ICRC (Red Cross) who visited and investigated ALL German Camps in Poland and Germany

Youll see that they have only 271,000 dead in all of the camps and each are accounted for.


----------



## BillThomas

WW2 accomplished 3 things.
1. It Spread Communism TO 11 nations in Europe and throughout the world.
2. It gave us World Govt. via the UN
3. Israel.
And 60 million Christians were killed over a border skirmish.

"Germany is the enemy of Judaism and must be pursued with deadly hatred. The goal of Judaism of today is: the complete destruction of the nation. We demand a complete blockade of trade, the importation of raw materials stopped, and retaliation towards every German, woman and child."
- (Jewish professor A. Kulischer, Oct, 1937)

Hitler never wanted war with Britain or France.

He did want a war with Poland as a result of terror attacks on German 'Poles' and the Polish government's refusal to accept his proposal for a Danzig Korridor, as well as the incorporation of Danzig into the Reich (see a partially accurate account here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Corridor#Nazi_Era and here http://www.teachersparadise.com/ency..._corridor.html ).

Quote: 
"The Free City of Danzig had an ethnic German majority of over 90% and a Polish minority of about 4 to 8%. It had its own currency, flag, anthem, ..."

http://david.national-anthems.net/dnz.htm
"The Free City had a population of 357,000 (1919), most of whom (about 90%) were German-speakers,..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Ci...zig#Population 
Reports of increased hostilities breaking out between ethnic Poles and Germans in late August 1939 was the reason for a full-out German invasion (Sept 1st).

William Joyce, became a German citizen and took up the German cause. He described the conditions of the Germans who were living in Poland as:

Quote:

"German men and women were hunted like wild beasts through the streets of Bromberg. When they were caught, they were mutilated and torn to pieces by the Polish mob. . . . Every day the butchery increased. . . . [T]housands of Germans fled from their homes in Poland with nothing more than the clothes that they wore..

On the nights of August 25 to August 31 inclusive, there occurred, besides innumerable attacks on civilians of German blood, 44 perfectly authenticated acts of armed violence against German official persons and property." 
Reference: Twilight Over England.

In a January 1, 1944, letter to Stalin, Churchill said: 
Quote:

"We never thought of peace, not even in that year when we were completely isolated and could have made peace without serious detriment to the British Empire, and extensively at your cost. Why should we think of it now, when victory approaches for the three of us?" 
Reference: Walendy, Udo, The Methods of Reeducation, 3.

There are some more interesting points made about WWII in this article

Was WWII Worth It?
For Stalin, yes
by Patrick J. Buchanan

http://www.antiwar.com/pat/?articleid=5899

Quote:

When one considers the losses suffered by Britain and France - hundreds of thousands dead, destitution, bankruptcy, the end of the empires - was World War II worth it, considering that Poland and all the other nations east of the Elbe were lost anyway?

If the objective of the West was the destruction of Nazi Germany, it was a "smashing" success. But why destroy Hitler? If to liberate Germans, it was not worth it. After all, the Germans voted Hitler in. If it was to keep Hitler out of Western Europe, why declare war on him and draw him into Western Europe? If it was to keep Hitler out of Central and Eastern Europe, then, inevitably, Stalin would inherit Central and Eastern Europe. Was that worth fighting a world war - with 50 million dead? The war Britain and France declared to defend Polish freedom ended up making Poland and all of Eastern and Central Europe safe for Stalinism.
--Patrick J Buchanan


----------



## BillThomas

In light of the discussions of mass murderers, I thought some of these Israeli Headline stories are worthwhile..

*We mustn't forget that some of Greatest Murderers of modern times were Jews*
Stalin's Jews, YNET News Israel-Sever Plocker

Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, was GPU's deputy commander and founder of the NKVD. Yagoda is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. 
His Jewish deputies established the Gulag system. 
Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity."

"The Communist Movement and ideology played an important part In Jewish life, particularly in the 1920s, 1930s and during and after World War II. 
Jews became the leading element in the legal and illegal Communist Parties..
Jews were instructed to change their names so as "not confirm right-wing propaganda that presented Communism as an alien, Jewish conspiracy."
-Front cover Volume 5, 1971 Encyclopedia Judaica, published Jerusalem, Israel
Under the entry for "Communism":Vol. 5, page 792

"Jewish communists participated efficiently and diligently" in collectivization. It was a war against the Russian people - a war that was carried out with "a certain enthusiasm among Jews." 
-Nobel and Pulitzer Prize winner, Gulag victim-Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

'Jewish Marxists are Continuing the best traditions of Jewry."
- LENIN, Dec 1913, pg 10


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## huntin1

BillThomas said:


> The USA had a Civil war as well.
> Kurds were backed BY the CIA, and encouraged/armed to Revolt. Their revolt was put down.
> But More have died in Iraq under US Occupation than Saddam in 25 years.
> An oversight on your part, Im sure.


Not an oversight at all. Not the point, but nice try.

You said: 


BillThomas said:


> Saddam hanged for killing 151 Shiites. Thats it. ..


I offered evidence that your statement was wrong. Saddam killed quite a few more than 151 Shiites, but you knew that. Didn't you?

You think you're right, I don't. You continue to offer "facts" that support your twisted view of world history. Your photo that you insist is proof is taken from deesillustrations.com, you do know that they are known for their satirical protrayal of world events. Here's another one of their pics,










Bill, you are so full of BS I can smell you from here.

huntin1


----------



## Plainsman

> What we did to the Indians was disgusting by anyones measure.


Show me where anyone said it was ok. Even if one man is treated badly it's wrong. My only point is whoever your believing has no idea what populations of native Americans were when we arrived up to this point. All of those Indians would not add up to 30 million. It's impossible for a country this size with a hunter gatherer culture (95% of them) to build up populations like that. Not to mention that they were killing each other as often as possible thousands of years before we got here. People who spew these kinds of numbers exaggerate for affect. When people who understand population dynamics and affect of a hunter gatherer culture they know it's pure bull droppings. There is a like claim that even more African slaves were thrown overboard on their way to America. The entire continent of Africa would not support a total population as high during the entire time of the slave trade. Your talking 30 million killed, and not that many have ever lived much less were exterminated. Where ever you got this information has no idea what they are talking about.

Do you understand what a hunter gatherer culture requires in land mass to sustain a population of even ten thousand?

So lets just for the fun of it get into some pretend. Say there was only 1.5 million Jews killed. So now it's not so bad? It takes Hitler off the hook? Is that your insinuation. It sure looks like it from my understanding of the English language. The only person I see on here trying to justify atrocities is you. This is like two murderers up for trial and the first one tells the judge I only killed ten people and John Doe killed 100 so I'm a good guy really.


----------



## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> I offered evidence that your statement was wrong. Saddam killed quite a few more than 151 Shiites, but you knew that. Didn't you?


Again, Saddam HANGED for killing 148 Shiites.
NOT for putting down a Kurdish Rebellion led by the CIA, any Sane leader would do the same.

*Associated Press 
11/5/2006 
'BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's High Tribunal on Sunday found Saddam Hussein guilty of crimes against humanity and sentenced him to hang for the 1982 killing of 148 Shiites in the city of Dujail.'*

Full MS NBC News Story
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15567363/ns ... h-hanging/



> You think you're right, I don't. You continue to offer "facts" that support your twisted view of world history. Your photo that you insist is proof is taken from deesillustrations.com, you do know that they are known for their satirical protrayal of world events. huntin1


I dont think Im right, I have facts that PROVE Im right.
Theres something twisted about the truth, and you obviously are allergic to it.


----------



## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> Show me where anyone said it was ok. Even if one man is treated badly it's wrong. My only point is whoever your believing has no idea what populations of native Americans were when we arrived up to this point. All of those Indians would not add up to 30 million.


Yes, in fact, the do. 20 million is a conservative number of those wiped out by early Americans, msotly Protestants and Jews.



> It's impossible for a country this size with a hunter gatherer culture (95% of them) to build up populations like that.


 See above.



> Not to mention that they were killing each other as often as possible thousands of years before we got here.


Tribal conflict over land and territory disputes, is much different than Institutional Genocide.
They werent killing each other en masse, they had occasional issues, same as Europeans, that were sometimes settled violently. 
Yours is a pathetic strawman to dismiss Genocide.



> People who spew these kinds of numbers exaggerate for affect. When people who understand population dynamics and affect of a hunter gatherer culture they know it's pure bull droppings.


Facts are not exaggerations.



> There is a like claim that even more African slaves were thrown overboard on their way to America. The entire continent of Africa would not support a total population as high during the entire time of the slave trade.


We are simply talking a population the size of Texas, spread out across the entre USA, and we factor that in over a century as official policy, and 20 million dead is conservative.



> Your talking 30 million killed, and not that many have ever lived much less were exterminated. Where ever you got this information has no idea what they are talking about.


Wikipedia and many esteemded historical scholars also agree with me.

"From the 1490s when Christopher Columbus set foot on the Americas to the 1890 massacre of Sioux at Wounded Knee by the United States military, the indigenous population of the Western Hemisphere may have declined, the direct cause mostly from disease, to 1.8 from as many as 100 million.
In Brazil alone the indigenous population has declined from a pre-Columbian high of an estimated 3 million to some 300,000 (1997)

Epidemic disease was the overwhelming direct cause of the population decline of the American natives.
After first contacts with Europeans and Africans, some believe that the death of 90 to 95% of the native population of the New World was caused by Old World diseases such as smallpox and measles. Some estimates indicate case fatality rates of 80-90% in Native American populations during smallpox epidemics.

One of the most important yet highly disputed pieces of information regarding the intentional ethnocide of indigenous populations in the Americas was possible intentional use of disease as a biological weapon, which was first posited by British forces under the command of Jeffery Amherst.
There is, however, only one documented case of germ warfare, involving British commander Jeffrey Jacob Amherst.[32] It is uncertain whether this documented British attempt successfully infected the Indians."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history



> So lets just for the fun of it get into some pretend. Say there was only 1.5 million Jews killed. So now it's not so bad? It takes Hitler off the hook? Is that your insinuation. It sure looks like it from my understanding of the English language. The only person I see on here trying to justify atrocities is you. This is like two murderers up for trial and the first one tells the judge I only killed ten people and John Doe killed 100 so I'm a good guy really.


Not even close to 1.5 Million Jews were killed.
The Red Cross ICRC has 271,000 dead, including elderly and natural causes, most dying from Typhus. 
Yes, it takes Hitler off the hook.
Jewry and Judea declared war ON Germany, not the other way around.
Even General Patton wanted to ReArm Germany.


----------



## BillThomas

Bushenwald concentration camp, day of Allies liberation. They look pretty well fed?









Dachau concentration camp, day of Liberation









Jewish Mothers with babies May 1945, Dachau









Birth record-Auschwitz 1944









Bobby Fisher, World Chess Champion, said Hitler had a wicked sense of humour, and the reason he is so hated is this sign outside of Auschwitz. It translates into WORK MAKES YOU FREE.


----------



## huntin1

Bill, you keep throwing around these supposed factual figures and say that they come from the Red Cross. Doing a search and I find the same figures, but they are all on conspiracy theorist sites.

Here is what I have been able to find on the International Red Cross website:



> The extermination camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau remains a powerful symbol of the most heinous crime committed in the history of humankind. The attempt by the Hitler regime to systematically annihilate the Jewish people and other groups such as the Roma through genocide stands without parallel. *For over one and a half million people - 90 per cent of them Jews - Auschwitz marked the last stage of an unspeakable ordeal. Only 7,500 of them survived the camp. *
> 
> What happened at Auschwitz must never be forgotten. This week's commemoration allows us to pay tribute to all the victims of the Holocaust and to express admiration and solidarity with those who survived its horrors. But keeping alive the memory of the Holocaust must also help to stiffe n the resolve of humankind to act before it is too late when faced with future threats of genocide. It forces us to ask ourselves whether humankind is really doing all it can to prevent such heinous crimes.
> 
> *Auschwitz also represents the greatest failure in the history of the ICRC, aggravated by its lack of decisiveness in taking steps to aid the victims of Nazi persecution. This failure will remain part of the ICRC's memory, as will the courageous acts of individual ICRC delegates at the time. *
> 
> For the ICRC the most appropriate way to honour the victims and survivors of the Holocaust is to fight for a world in which the human dignity of every man, woman and child is respected without any reservations. It may never be possible to fully achieve this aim but the memory of Auschwitz obliges us to do everything in our power to work towards it.


Bold added by me.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/docum ... 68zeb2.htm

So it would seem that even the International Red Cross says that almost 1.5 million people died, 90 percent Jews, at the "extermination camp" of Auschwitz-Birkenau. And that is only Auschwitz, they do not list figures for the others.

Your figure of 271,000 is just as ridiculous as the 6 million figure that was refuted years ago. Of course, you won't believe it because it does not meet your twisted view of history.

I almost feel sorry for you.

huntin1


----------



## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> Bill, you keep throwing around these supposed factual figures and say that they come from the Red Cross. Doing a search and I find the same figures, but they are all on conspiracy theorist sites.


You Talmudically call them 'conspiracy theorists' as historians because they dare to question the facts and evidence, and scrutinize the propoganda that is accepted as truth by the Liars.

One can legally deny GOD, Christ, The Virgin Birth and Trinity in Europe, but not that 6 million supposedly died in a 2 car Garage Sized, vented room, by use of Bug spray, in 18 months in Europe. Its a punishable thought crime there.
The official document I uploaded SHOWS exactly 271,000 dead in TOTAL from all camps FROM the ICRC.



> Here is what I have been able to find on the International Red Cross website:


Sadly, they are under international pressure to quote the same lies, and defy the actual records which they maintained..



> So it would seem that even the International Red Cross says that almost 1.5 million people died, 90 percent Jews, at the "extermination camp" of Auschwitz-Birkenau. And that is only Auschwitz, they do not list figures for the others.


It said 'Mainly Jews' not 90%.
This of course was the CHANGED and revised Auschwitz memorial which lowered the count down 2.5 million but Not the total number, go figure..



> Your figure of 271,000 is just as ridiculous as the 6 million figure that was refuted years ago. Of course, you won't believe it because it does not meet your twisted view of history.


Its not 'my figure,' its the International Red Cross Figure (ICRC) and I uploaded it.



> I almost feel sorry for you.
> huntin1


 No need to feel sorry for those that counter Lies and myths. 
Go watch a Spielberg movie, youll feel better. Schindlers List is supposed to be very good.
Personally I liked Misha the Wolf Girl, (she escaped from Auschwitz to live with wolves and travel 1000 miles.) 
Of course, it was later determined to be a Fabricated fictional LIE, but already translated into 20 languages and a film was made about it. Just like the 'soap' and lampshaeds lie.
Oy


----------



## Gooseguy10

BT. If you did some actual research, you would see that the almanac did not revise its Jewish population numbers from 1939-1948, so they simply used the 1939 numbers (15 million and change) for its 1945, 46 and 47 numbers. They denote that in a foot note. But why look at the whole picture when excluding facts works better for your argument?


----------



## BillThomas

Gooseguy10 said:


> BT. If you did some actual research, you would see that the almanac did not revise its Jewish population numbers from 1939-1948, so they simply used the 1939 numbers (15 million and change) for its 1945, 46 and 47 numbers. They denote that in a foot note. But why look at the whole picture when excluding facts works better for your argument?


They didnt revise them because they were caught in a giant LIE and we have 1951 census numbers as well.
But in truth, you post is not correct, there were numbers compiled and there were MORE Jews after WW2 than before!

"According to the census of June 16, 1933, the Jewish population of Germany, including the Saar region (which at that time was still under the administration of the League of Nations), was approximately 505,000 people".

"Fourteen million Jews dispersed throughout the world have banded together as one man to declare war on the German persecutors of their co-religionists. Sectional differences and antagonisms have been submerged in one common aim--to stand by the 600,000 Jews of Germany who are terrorised by Hitlerist anti-semitism, and to compel Fascist Germany to end its campaign of violence and suppression directed against its Jewish Minority", 
-front page, the Jewish "Daily Express", March 24, 1933.

Fourteen MILLION Jews in 1933? That's almost TWO MILLION LESS than all Jew publications reported AFTER World War II.

600 THOUSAND Jews in Germany in 1933? That total figure is less than a TENTH of what the Jews claim Hitler killed.

The following data from the 1929, 1942, 1947, and 1963 editions of The World Almanac and Book of Facts published by the New York World Telegram, on pages 727, 849, 748, and 441, respectively, and from the 1996 edition published by Funk & Wagnalls, pg. 646, proves that six million Jews did not die in Nazi concentration camps.

While it's true that the number of Jews in Europe decreased from 10 to 9.4 million between 1928 and 1941, the entire population of Jews in rest of the world also decreased, and much of that was before they could have been exterminated in camps.

All world almanacs show that during WWII the number of Jews in Europe remained flat, but Britannica Book of the Year reports that the number of Jews in the world increased by 600,000, or 4%.

How could 6 million Jews (40% of all Jews and 64% of those in Europe) have died in the Holocaust if their worldwide population increased by 4%?

*Old Almanacs Never Lie!*

584,549 MORE Jews in 1949 than in 1940

Meyers Handlexicon, Germany 1921 -- 11,600,000

World Almanac, 1925, pg. 752 -- 15,630,000, "In 1925 a census of Palestine gave a total of 115,151 Jews"

World Almanac, 1929, pg. 727 -- 15,630,000

National Council of Churches 1930 -- 15,600 ,000

March 24, 1933, Jewish newspaper Daily Express -- 14,000,000 Jews worldwide

World Almanac, 1933, pg. 419 -- 15,316,359, ["The estimate for Jews in the above table is for 1933, and is by the American Jewish Committee"

World Almanac, 1936, pg. 748 -- world Jewish population = 15,753,633

World Almanac, 1938, pg. 510 -- world Jewish population = 15,748,091, with 240,000 in Germany

American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 -- 15,600,000

World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population -- 15,319,359

World Almanac, 1941, pg. 510: World Jewish Population -- 15,748,091

World Almanac, 1942, pg. 849: World Jewish Population -- 15,192,089 ("Jews include Jews by race not necessarily by religion")

World Almanac USA, 1947, pg. 748: World Jewish Population -- 15,690,000

World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population -- 15,713,638

Statistical Handbook of Council of Churches USA 1951 -- 15,300,000

"I've checked out Churchill's Second World War and the statement is quite correct" not a single mention of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a 'genocide' of the Jews, or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war. This is astonishing. 
How can it be explained? Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; the six volumes of Churchill's Second World War total 4,448 pages; and de Gaulle's three-volume MÃ©moires de guerre is 2,054 pages. 
In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi 'gas chambers,' a 'genocide' of the Jews, or of 'six million' Jewish victims of the war."

-Richard Lynn, Professor Emeritus, 
University of Ulster, December 5, 2005


----------



## huntin1

I think I understand now. Anything that does not agree with how you see things is a lie. Anything that agrees with your twisted view is fact. Go figure.

huntin1


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> I think I understand now. Anything that does not agree with how you see things is a lie. Anything that agrees with your twisted view is fact. Go figure.
> 
> huntin1


Almanacs certainly dont lie.
Figures were given by the Council of Rabbis to the World Census.

If you wish to believe that 4-6 million died in this 2 car garage sizd vented room by use of bug spray in 18 months, who am I to tell you different?









There were no more than 4 million Jews living in Nazi-occupied territory. As the Nazi army advanced, the Jews fled rather than be captured. On June 30, 1965, the West German government announced that 3,375,000 Jewish "holocaust survivors" had applied for reparations. Now, if we subtract 3,375,000 from 4,000,000, that leaves 625,000 unaccounted for. If we take 625,000 and add a zero to the figure, we arrive at the fictitious and truly fantastic six million lie.

During the entire length of the War, the International Red Cross had constant access to the concentration camps. They delivered mail and packages containing food and clothing. The International Red Cross, despite this constant presence, never once filed a complaint or report about "the ovens of Auschwitz" or any other camp. It truly begs credulity to think that not a single Red Cross agent ever became suspicious, unless, of course, there was nothing to be suspicious about.

1.) The Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the war. When asked if they witnessed any alleged "gassings," the response was negative. From Red Cross document #9925, June, 1946, the entry states: "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them." How can you gas six million Jews and nobody notices?

2.) Photos of emaciated bodies, both alive and dead, are not proof of an extermination campaign. The fact is that toward the end of the war, the Allies were bombing railroads and roads to the point of obliteration. This meant that valuable food, medicine, Red Cross packages, and other supplies were no longer reaching the camps. This was the real reason for the malnutrition, not to mention the serious side effects of malnutrition, which would be an increase in all types of disease.

3.) Cremating 6,000,000 bodies in order to dispose of the evidence would have left 15,000 tons of ashes. No such volume of ashes was ever found, and no air reconnaissance ever revealed enormous clouds of smoke, and certainly there was never any such total of bodies found. 
It is only when one considers the enormous lack of evidenceof a holocaust - all the physical matter that would have been left over from such a campaign (six million corpses?!!!!) and the sheer magnitude of such an undertaking - then the hoax becomes obvious. It is only the hoaxers themselves and those who have not really thought about the physical details who believe in this tragic farce.

It is quite certain that the Germans did not have enough fuel to consume anywhere near that amount of bodies. One of the hoaxers, Mr. Henri Michel, editor-in-chief of the Revue d'Histoire De La Seconde Guerre Mondial, exclaimed of Auschwitz: "This camp was the most international and the most western of the death factories, and its soil is enriched with the ashes of 4,000,000 corpses." -- p. 3. 
The dust cloud of crematoria smoke from such a volume of corpses would certainly have prompted some aerial reconnaissance photos, don't you think? Where is the evidence? Why is there not one single photo of the crematoria smokestacks belching out their tons of ashes?


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## huntin1

Most of us have agreed that the 4 to 6 million is an over-estimation. Since you are so fond of photo's:

Here is another photo of Auschwitz gas chamber,









And the cremation ovens next door,









Prisoners at Buchewald and Ebensee, yep they sure look healthy and well fed.


















And if you can stomach it, here is a series of AP photos taken at several of the camps at the end of the war. WARNING. These are graphic so I am only going to post the link.

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011 ... st/100170/

Your idea of what happened is twisted BT, you are ignorant of the events that occurred and worse, refuse to believe the truth because it doesn't match with your view.

With this I am done, you sir are a lost cause.

huntin1


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> Most of us have agreed that the 4 to 6 million is an over-estimation. Since you are so fond of photo's:
> 
> Here is another photo of Auschwitz gas chamber,


Its the size of a 2 car garage.



> And the cremation ovens next door,


15 in total, could process 120 bodies per day max (3 hours to creamate a body in 24/7)
Thats 3000 per month, 36,000 per year.



> Prisoners at Buchewald and Ebensee, yep they sure look healthy and well fed.


If they contracted Typhus, which they did as the photos show, then its hard to be nourished when medical resources are not being supplied due to allied bombing of the rail lines, as the ICRC reported.
This is what Typhus looks like, its due primarily to bad bathroom habits, as General Patton reported.



> And if you can stomach it, here is a series of AP photos taken at several of the camps at the end of the war. WARNING. These are graphic so I am only going to post the link.


Graphic? 
How about the photos of the 2 million German POWs that died in our care? 
Starved and exposed to the elements. Or the 500,000 civilians incinerated at Dresden or Hiroshima that had rec crosses paintedo on their roofs and had no military installations in the entire city but was a home for refugees?



> Your idea of what happened is twisted BT, you are ignorant of the events that occurred and worse, refuse to believe the truth because it doesn't match with your view.
> With this I am done, you sir are a lost cause.


So Jewrys offical Declaration Of War ON Germany in 1933 London Times is twisted?


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## Plainsman

Bill I thought you were just a Jewish hater, but now it appears you hate the nation your living in. Are you a citizen of the United States? Were you born here?
I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just want some background to understand your position.


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## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> Bill I thought you were just a Jewish hater, but now it appears you hate the nation your living in. Are you a citizen of the United States? Were you born here?
> I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just want some background to understand your position.


IM AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY HATER.

I hate the nation we've become, a GODless Nation, that caters to Godless Jews, homosexuals, illegals, blacks, and is run by a bunch of mongol converts aka Khazar Jews ,who have no tie to the Holy Land, but who dictate our foreign policy and own and control the Federal Reserve.

The USA leads the world in nothing today, Except money spent on our military And the incarceration rate. 
Thats it, and those are the facts-literacy, health, longevity, wellness, money spent on education, standard of living, Manufacturing, Debt to income and GDP growth, all belong to other nations.
We were once a great nation, we are no longer a great nation.

We were once a beacon of hope and freedom to the world and we were loved for it, now we are one of the Most Hated Nations in the world behind Israel and North Korea. Theres alot of competition for that title, and that is not exactly good company to keep.
Anyone that is not blind can see it. It saddens me deeply.
We are bankrupt morally, fiscally and politically.

A Citizen born in 1968.


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## BillThomas

'Both my father and mother were survivors of the Warsaw Ghetto and the Nazi concentration camps.
My parents often wondered why I would grow so indignant at the Falsification and exploitation of the Nazi genocide.
The Holocaust has proven to be an indispensable ideological Weapon, and the most successful ethnic group in the US has likewise acquired victim status.
"If everyone who claims to be a survivor actually is one," my mother used to exclaim "who did Hitler kill?
The Holocaust industry has always been bankrupt. What remains is to openly declare it so. The time is long past to put it out of business. The noblest gesture for those who perished is to preserve their memory, learn from their suffering and let them, finally, rest in peace.'
-Professor Norm Finklestein

Ten questions to the Zionists 
by Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl ZT"L
Dean of Nitra Yeshiva and author of min hametzar
(Published by the author in 1948 and reprinted many times)

1. IS IT TRUE that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that:

a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and
b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and
c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.

2. IS IT TRUE that the Zionist leaders in Switzerland and Turkey received this offer with the clear understanding that the exclusion of Palestine as a destination for the deportees was based on an agreement between the Gestapo and the Mufti. 
3. IS IT TRUE that the answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments:
a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees.
b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war.
c) No ransom will be paid

4. IS IT TRUE that this response to the Gestapo's offer was made with the full knowledge that the alternative to this offer was the gas chamber.

5. IS IT TRUE that in 1944, at the time of the Hungarian deportations, a similar offer was made, whereby all Hungarian Jewry could be saved.

6. IS IT TRUE that the same Zionist hierarchy again refused this offer (after the gas chambers had already taken a toll of millions).

7. IS IT TRUE that during the height of the killings in the war, 270 Members of the British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany.

8. IS IT TRUE that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!"

9. IS IT TRUE that the British government granted visas to 300 rabbis and their families to the Colony of Mauritius, with passage for the evacuees through Turkey. The "Jewish Agency" leaders sabotaged this plan with the observation that the plan was disloyal to Palestine, and the 300 rabbis and their families should be gassed.

10. IS IT TRUE that during the course of the negotiations mentioned above, Chaim Weitzman, the first "Jewish statesman" stated: "The most valuable part of the Jewish nation is already in Palestine, and those Jews living outside Palestine are not too important". Weitzman's cohort, Greenbaum, amplified this statement with the observation "One cow in Palestine is worth more than all the Jews in Europe".


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## EnlightenedOne

"One can legally deny GOD, Christ, The Virgin Birth and Trinity in Europe, but not that 6 million supposedly died in a 2 car Garage Sized, vented room, by use of Bug spray, in 18 months in Europe. Its a punishable thought crime there."

Bill please tell me you are nothing more than a troll who gets off on hostile reactions. Because if you're not then I feel very sorry for you and for anyone else who might buy into your BS way of thinking.

No one that I know of has ever said that 6 million people died in a single gas chamber the size of a 2 car garage.

With just a little research you can easily find that there were some 1,100 concentration camps used by the Nazis, many of which were small, but a few of which were quite large. The camp with the largest number of holocaust murders is Auschwitz, which account for approximately 1,100,000 to 1,500,000 deaths.
There were five other locations whose sole purpose was to mass exterminate people, mainly the Jews.

I could cite statistics along with facts and resources, but why waste the time on someone who is obviously so in denial that they refuse any logic.

The Holocaust is a fact. Get it, a FACT. It happened. The exact number of those who died from the various methods used to kill them will never be known. And what does it matter. If 3,000 people died merciless horrible deaths is that not enough? If it was 3,000,000 does that make it any better?

Men and young boys died. Mothers died holding their young children. For God's sake, have some respect.


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## Plainsman

Englightened one I just went back and looked at the very first post just for fun. Below is a statement from BillT. No one had responded at this point, so I guess he was debating an imaginary person. I didn't take a lot of time, but I don't think the below quote is out of context because I don't think there was context only rambling.

To compare the last century to the previous four centuries doesn't make sense either. The world population grew far beyond those early centuries and when populations grow conflict grows. If you don't believe that put four people at a small table or room, then add another 20 and see what happens.

I noticed it was an attempt to blacken the eyes of Christians also.



> Germany did not break agreements with its neighbouring nation as you imply.


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