# Ending the Ross Goose Restriction in Canada's Spring Hunt...



## Squeeker (Apr 1, 2004)

Any Canadian lawyers on this site? Any lawyers, period?

Looking for a little information on what could be used/not used as an argument to end the crappy restrictions for Canadians (people, not honkers here) when Spring hunting.

Whenever I have seen a judges' comments regarding cases they rule on, I always here of this thing called "acting in good/bad faith". They seem to use this phrase a lot when making a ruling.

What if someone was to shoot the rare Blue phased Ross goose and turn themselves in? A hunter could easily argue that beak identification is too difficult for the average person, the size of the bird can vary, so really the only way a hunter can shoot is by the phase of the bird.

A hunter would be acting in complete "good faith" by shooting a bird such as this, so I wonder if a judge would throw out the violation.

I wonder if it could go the other way by completely then eliminating the spring hunt all together.


----------



## brobones (Mar 10, 2004)

The best way to do this is to write or call the Canadian Wildlife sevices and see if changes can be made:
http://www.cws-scf.ec.gc.ca/publication ... ask&lang=e

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/info/flyway/canada.htm

the instructions at the top of the page for emailing any of the people on this listing.


----------



## Snowhunter07 (Feb 21, 2006)

Why the heck would it be illegal to shoot ross geese in Canada in the first place? :-?. Say a flock of a thousand come into your dekes, its not like your gonna specifically look for a ross goose.


----------



## Squeeker (Apr 1, 2004)

Explanation is here:

Dleva posted this in another thread:



> I think when they set up the spring season only snows/blues were included when they wrote up the regs. Ross geese weren't mentioned. Somewhere I read they tried to add ross geese to the spring season, but a judge wouldn't allow it because they weren't mentioned in the original framework of the season.


Brobones followed with this:



> That pretty much sums it up. When the Canadian Wildlife services made their application to the court to allow snow goose hunting in the spring, they never included Ross geese. The application was challenged by a anti hunting group and they said there should be no hunting for snows or ross geese in the spring. Since the application brought forward to the courts orginally did not have ross geese in it the judge ruled in favor of a spring season for snow geese only and not for ross geese. I think he must of thought there was a big difference in the species. Or his arrogence simply shows.
> dumb I know but we have to play by these rules


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Shoot one by mistake and get arrested.

We run into that situation here with the deer regulations.Antlered tags say....visible antler.Sometimes shooting at a spike on the run at 200 yds thinking it is a doe,it is impossible to see it is a buck until you walk up to it.

So what does the term visible mean.

Same with Ross geese.Can't tell until they are in your hand unless they are all Ross in a flock.....then you can easily tell by the sound they make.


----------



## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

REMEMBER WHEN ROSS' GEESE WERE NOT VERY PLENTIFUL. AT ONE TIME WASN'T THE LIMIT VERY RESTRICTED?? THE NICE THING ABOUT THE RESTRICTION IS THAT IT KEEPS THE TRESPASSERS, JUMPERS & SNEAKS OUT.


----------



## R&amp;B OUTFITTERS (Feb 25, 2004)

I make a complaint every year to the outfitters association to try to get this changed and they bring it up to who ever but i donot no where it goes from there. I will continue to bring it up until it is reviewed. It is a law
that is working against what we are trying to do in the spring hunt, On an
average day we probably lose 6-8 birds because we are not sure about the species and donot shoot. And it is not fair to my clients who are paying to shoot snow geese.


----------



## Shu (Oct 21, 2003)

If there are enough Ross to shoot, fine, but saying that hunters should be allowed to shoot them because they paid money is not a reason to shoot them.


----------



## SlipperySam (Jan 17, 2006)

Two comments for R&B- First, I'm glad you have the sense to hold off shooting if you aren't sure of your target. Too many hunters have the I'll shoot it and then find out approach. Second, as a person who goes on guided hunts twice a year you plan on not being able to shoot everything. That's why they call it hunting.


----------



## brobones (Mar 10, 2004)

One thing that is being over looked here is that the ross goose if far game in the United States and when they hit the border (usa and canada) there not in the spring. The question is there enough ross geese to be taken in Sask well the ross geese that pass through Sask are the same ross goose that is getting shot in ND, Sd ect. In fact in over all harvest of spring snows Sask would be in last place I am sure compared to any of the State totals.

If there is trouble with the population of ross geese then why is it allowed in the United States?? The only reason it is that way is because of the wording of the application to the courts.


----------



## bird crumpler (Mar 28, 2006)

That is a bad law I wouldnt be able to call what to shoot or not 
we shot a lot of ross's this spring so ya


----------



## cranebuster (Nov 2, 2004)

I think they should put a limit on them in the U.S. say 5 or 10. They're not in nearly as much trouble as the snows, but they just get slaughtered in the spring. I personally try my darndest not to shoot them. A limit would allow leeway for ditch whores and collateral kills, and if you started getting into them say with five guys, you could kill 50 before you'd have to really watch out. I feel sorry for the little fellas when they come ripping down out of a tornado and give themselves up. I think the only reason they allow U.S. hunters to shoot them is they know most guys cant pick them out, but if you allowed a limit it would be similar to hen mallards, if you can't pick them out you only shoot two ducks then quit. They don't allow us to shoot specks just because they look like juvy blues and they don't allow you to shoot a bunch of cans just because they look like redheads. Anyhow I think canada has a good thing going up there, whether or not it was a clerical mistake.


----------



## brobones (Mar 10, 2004)

There some big differences in identifying geese and ducks as you suggested compared to distinguishing between a snow and a ross goose. A limit of a few would be nice incase you have made poor judgment. I think most people can tell the difference between a can and redhead, and also between a juvie blue and a young spec. Orange feet, sound different but the ross and snows are not that different as the other two examples you have suggested. I do like the idea of a limit of 5 or something like that, to give a hunter a bit of a buffer hell even 2 ross in your bag limit.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

That's not true,the Ross goose population has grown the same as the snows....and they use the same nesting area.If the Dept. of Interior had any misgivings about shooting them in the spring.....we wouldn't have a spring season.

It is the same as the Giant Canadas and the the smaller Lessers.Our early fall Canada season is 1 week shorter now because we were getting into the smaller Lessers the third week of Sept.The Dept. of Interior said we were shooting too many of the smaller geese with a 5 day limit.....so they made ND close the season when the Lessers started showing up.

If Ross geese were at a dangerously low population,you can bet we would not be able to shoot them in the spring.

Besides the majority of Ross geese do not migrate down the Central Flyway.Most leave western Sask. and Alberta and go to California.The Central Flyway population of Ross are here because of expansion of their population,into traditional Snow goose nesting areas,which continues to grow regardless of a spring season.

As stated early in this thread....Canada doesn't allow it because they made the mistake of not including them,not because their population is in trouble.


----------



## Squeeker (Apr 1, 2004)

I had a chance to speak last weekend to someone who has very high credentials in this field. I spoke with him about a variety of subjects, one of which was the spring goose hunt here in Canada.

Contrary to what people think on the subject, he said that it was not a clerical mistake on behalf of CWS.

The Spring Snow goose hunt here in Canada actually itself, violated the Migratory Game Birds Act. With this said, they had to make a very strong case that the spring hunt was not only desirable, it was mandatory to control the over-population of birds. However, they simply could not make the argument that Ross Geese themselves and alone were destroying the Arctic tundra. The numbers have always been stronger with the Snow geese, so that was the final compromise.


----------



## Mr. Lee (Oct 12, 2002)

The is clearly not needed. Ross geese are doing well and shooting a few more in Canada will only help the tundra situation.

But.....has anyone been ticketed for shooting Ross geese up there in the spring. You know that guys are shooting them all the time. What do the wardens say?


----------



## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

As far as I have researched, ross geese are not as bad as lesser when it comes to grazing, grubbing, overturning soil in search of roots, and pulling and breaking off shoots of grass. The lessers constitute a majority of the birds that are causing the degradation in the arctic.


----------



## brobones (Mar 10, 2004)

They will charge you, I have talked to a offical at the CWS. This is what I have been told by a warden. If you have 10 snows and blues and one or two Ross they might over look the two ross that were taken.

Well who the hell wants to risk not hunting for a year for shooting a bird out of season, not me. They need to change the law to make it not a grey area. The person that I talked with from the CWS told me it was a oversight on there part when they were drawing up the application to the court, leaving the ross goose off of the application. That is news to me Squeeker. 
This person is also a well known in their organization and has a major influence and input in regards to bag limits, and restrictions with the CWS.


----------



## Mr. Lee (Oct 12, 2002)

It would make complete sense that they would say that they will charge you. To say that they are not going to enforce it would probably get them fired.

So.......To anyones knowledge......Has any one single person been ticketed for this?


----------



## Catch22 (Apr 12, 2006)

Mr Lee brings up a valid point, Has anyone been tagged for shooting a Ross goose??


----------



## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

cranebuster- just like Ken W said- ross geese are in just as much trouble as the snowgoose-they feed in the same areas, even with each other, and the numbers have skyrocketed. Hopefully this law can get changed so u guys up in canuck counrty can kill some more of those birds

Ryan


----------



## cranebuster (Nov 2, 2004)

I have done quite a bit of research on the topic, and as stated before they aren't booming nearly like the snows. To say that killing them would still help save the tundra because they share it is like saying we should kill lesser canadas and specks too. Ross geese have separate nesting colonies than snows. It is very likely that they are legal in the states only because it would be an enforcement nightmare like they must have up north. I have heard what squeeker said about the canadian law and was a little skeptical when I heard that it was a clerical error. Any how, I like ripping into an attack squad of rossies as much as the next guy I just feel kinda bad for the little buggers.


----------



## Scaredy-snow (Apr 13, 2006)

I love the little buggers too. I asked a CO about blue phased ross'. He said they're leagal because they have a type of grinn patch. He went on to say that if the bird has any type of grinn patch it is leagal. He also offerd that if someone were to make a "mistake or two" on rossies it would most likely be overlooked. Again, who's going to take that chance?
Since I've spoken with this CO, I've examined every ross' goose that comes down and yes, there is an arguement for the "Snoss goose" much like the saugeye. For sure one can't see this unless the bird is dead in your hand.

So does this mean that the ross' geese are collaborating with the lessor snows to destoy the tundra? Or are they just trying to soften the blow?


----------

