# 17 HMR



## 1 shot (Oct 24, 2007)

*What should happen with 17 HMR threads on the coyote forum?*​
Yes, it is a significant coyote killer keep in coyote forum1021.28%No, common sense prevails move it to the rifle forum2451.06%1 shot needs a drink and fallguy is gonna delete this.1327.66%


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## 1 shot (Oct 24, 2007)

Who's tired of it. Let the members decide. :beer:


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## lotero (Dec 12, 2007)

it is NOT a significant coyote killer, even if it will kill one. the threads are getting out of control, but can be looked at as educational if anything. no vote


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I guess I'm kinda tired of em, so I just don't read them. They always go the same way anyways. If someone wants to entertain the idea and discuss it then so be it. We don't have to click on every thread there is if we don't want to.

no vote for me either


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

I hate the 17hmr thread. It's a bunch of middle schoolers saying it's big enough and a bunch of coyote callers saying it's not a good choice. It's a viciouse cycle and it's perpetual. I never post on there cause I want that thread to stay as far to the bottom of the post order as posible.


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## Wyomingpredator (Oct 16, 2007)

To me shooting coyotes with the 17 HMR is like elk hunting with a 22-250, of course it can be done but it shouldn't be done. espicailly with ethics in mind


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

I think it should stay. Not because I believe the hummer is a good choice for coyote hunting, but everyday, more and more people google "coyotes and 17HMR" and end up here. THere are good posts, and there are mundane posts.

What I am waiting for is one of two things:
1) Somebody to come on here and admit that yes, they have shot at and wounded quite a few coyotes and thus, the hummer is NOT what you should shoot at coyotes with. OR...
2) Somebody to come on here and post evidence that YES, they have killed quite a number of coyotes with it and give advice on how they did it.

So far, the vast majority of the posts, both pro and con, have been theoretical and based simply on ballistic tables. I for one have never had the chance to shoot at a coyote-sized animal with the hummer. I HAVE, however, shot and KILLED racoons, skunks, prairie dogs, and crows with it. That being said, it doesn't mean "diddly-squat" about what it can or can't do on a 'yote.

A friend killed two boxer-sized dogs with his. Both bang-flops. No, boxers do not have the same will to survive, but he is the only one that has ANY sort of tangible evidence what that little pill can do.

THis long winded post is to justify my "yes" vote above.


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## 1 shot (Oct 24, 2007)

I have a scenario for you yes people.
The NDCC is going on right now $150 entry fee plus gas, possible hotel rooms, vacation maybe. That adds up to a lot of money to be in a coyote calling contest. 
If you say the 17 hmr is a significant coyote killer your telling me that you would not hesitate to pick up a 17 hmr instead of a 17 rem 204, 223, 22-250, or 243 to hunt this tournament or any other. How many of you HMR lovers are willing to do that.


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

Nice point, 1 shot. But still, there are a lot of guys, myself included, that keep a hummer in the truck, and would not hesitate one second, to put crosshairs on fur. Now, if after maiming a few with it, I might change my tune and join in with the "never" crowd. But that is my problem; I've never got the chance to try to take one since I got my 17.


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

Who voted for the third? Good reasons on no vote, i seen this and I thou goodness gracious do they ever stop? Thus my reason for third.


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## jason_n (Dec 30, 2006)

at least someone brought up a 204 without a bunch of people ripping on it. But still the bozo's who wander round bragging about killing moose and woolly mammoths with a 17hmr gets old on posts or in general conversation. how many 17hmr rounds does your purse hold? It is a sweet little gun and has its place but comon what happens if the yote hangs up at 150 yards? but then again the guys that hunt with them probably never have a coyote hang up on them either


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## 1 shot (Oct 24, 2007)

hagfan,
Another scenerio
The problem is a newbie comes in says hey I'm a duck hunter I want to start coyote hunting I dont own any rifles. I have been reading about this 17 hmr. Can I use that to kill coyotes? 
Jonnhy#5 from Nodak says yes you can kill coyotes with it. True statement but misleading. 
What he doesn't tell him is he himself would not rely on it for an all purpose coyote gun. But now Duckhunter buys a 17hmr thinking he's got himself coyote gun. But obviously is new to the rifle thing. He probably doesn't understand the trejectory of the rifle and ft pounds of energy at greater yards. And probably not a marksman. And remember he's a new caller also and he gets coyotes in but they are hanging up at 150, 200 yards he keeps missing and keeps getting discouraged. Finally somebody tells him hey you need a differnet gun. But ducky cant buy a new gun because he spent all of his money on that 17. 
Maybe not the best scenerio but I hope you see my point.


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

Sure, I am on board with that. But NOBODY that i have read has pointed to hard cold facts!! I may have missed it, but i have not read one single post from anyone who says " I have shot at X number of coyotes with my hummer, and all but 2 ran away." No, all i read about are the guys who "know" that the 17 is too little, but have never tried it. The only ones who post after having shot at a coyote with a hummer are the ones who claim bang-flops, or short runs. Liars? Maybe. I am just waiting for real world experience, not good guesses. You see my point?


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## ilike2shoot (Jan 10, 2008)

1. I have a 17HMR Savage with Heavy barrel and love to shoot and do some light hunting with it.
2. I know I _*COULD*_ kill a coyote (or even a deer if I had to) with it.
3. I have no intention of proving it to anyone as I feel it is just not the right tool for the job.
4. I wonder how many (new, uneducated, whatever you wanna call them) people read about .17 cal rifles and varmint hunting (on Varmint Al's site for example), and think its the same thing?


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Much as I love the 17HMR and am fully confident I can kill yotes with it within it's range restrictions, it's not by any stretch a "coyote round" any more than the 22LR.

Frankly, I think the 17 and 20 caliber centerfires are not good all around coyote rounds. Before anyone flames me, I own a 204 Ruger and love it, it's just not the first rifle in the safe I reach for when It's coyote time.
I personally think they are best used and almost unbeatable as a calling round but not the best choice for an all around coyote rifle.

To my mind, all around coyote rounds with more than adequate killing power & range begin with the 223 type stuff and go up from there. I love the 243 for yotes and there have been times I would have preferred my 270!

My point is that there are lots of calibers that will work for coyotes within their capabilities and the 17HMR is one of them. I can't see censoring threads about them simply because you don't like it for the job.

Post your opinion about the Hummer by all means, but flush the threads? My vote is no...


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## lotero (Dec 12, 2007)

all good posts, does anyone else think its ironic that this is turning into another 17HMR thread :lol: . anyway i have been on a stand with my partner carrying his 17HMR and me with my 30-06. i brought in a small dog and let him take the first shot, he hit it but all it did was make the dog run, we ended up being able to chase him down because he was wounded and i finished him off with a running shot with my -06. we both agreed that gun is excellent for crows and prarie dogs, but it wont be coming on another coyote hunting trip.. keep in mind this was a small dog, it is one of the ones in my avatar picture, just a pup that was shot at about 50 yards with an HMR... NOT EFFECTIVE.


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## YoteSlapper (Mar 12, 2007)

I did not vote, but have a few comments...

Seems to me the guys that want this issue to go away are some of the first to respond to the threads that show up about it. Ignore it and it might go away. Or better yet, just pass over those threads. No one is forcing you to read them. If your chiming in on the 17HMR threads to try to educate a new hunter, just let them learn on their own. Watching yotes run away will make a much bigger impression on them than you ever will. That is, unless you have some undeniable facts to back up your claims. And if you do I would like to hear them. So how many yotes have you shot with the 17HMR and watched run away??? Let's hear it, go ahead and fess up if you got the facts. Was it 10 out of 10 that ran away? 5 out of 15? If there was that many, what took you so long to learn? If it was 1 that ran away, sounds like the 17HMR is eather working great or you have little experience with it. Either way, facts settle quite a few debates.

For the guys that believe it is enough gun and intend on using it, show us some evidence that it works. Dead coyote pictures and details would be a good start. Again, facts settle debates.

This pole like many poles drive me nuts. It's a, he said she said yes it will no it won't arguement. So and so said it so it must be true and I am going to repeat it, bla, bla, bla. I have seen very little evidence from either side of this issue that supports their comments... If you can't tell, I got little time for poles and debates like this... But if you want me too, I could think of a bunch of poles for those that really like them. In fact I will throw one at you that may be a good comparison and might just help clear this issue up... Is a bow and arrow enough for deer? There you go, if you're into poles, have at it boys. I am sure many of our readers are archery deer hunters and I am not meaning to offend anyone. I am hoping that this question might reduce some of the debate on the 17HMR/yote subject. I do not hunt deer but if I did that is likely how I would hunt them. Many of the things the good archery hunters do is what I do to hunt preditors. The good archery hunters have the skills to harvest their target with the tool they choose to use. The bad archery hunters injure deer and never retrieve them. Does that mean archery is a poor choice for deer? I don't think so. I do think it is a bad choice for some people, they simply do not have the skills or do not understand their target or their weapon very well. The difference between the archery/deer and 17HMR/yote comparison is that it is much easier to show archery is not enough for deer. Just ask any meat locker that processes a lot of deer each season and see if they have ever found arrow heads in the dear shot by rifles. If they haven't, they don't process many deer IMO. Now show me a yote that was injured by a 17HMR. In fact I will give you to the end of 2008 to show it to me. All I am looking for is facts to back up your claims.

Here is my final comment on 17HMR for yotes. 
I do not own one and have no need for one at this time. I have shot it several times and have a fair understanding of it's capabilities. I have seen many coyotes I could have taken and many I could not have taken with this gun. The challange is knowing the difference.

Just like archery for deer, not everyone is cut out for 17HMR for yotes.

Sorry this got long, but now I got to run. Yotes are callin...

YoteSlapper


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## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

1 shot said:


> hagfan,
> Another scenerio
> The problem is a newbie comes in says hey I'm a duck hunter I want to start coyote hunting I dont own any rifles. I have been reading about this 17 hmr. Can I use that to kill coyotes?
> Jonnhy#5 from Nodak says yes you can kill coyotes with it. True statement but misleading.
> ...


This is an excellent point and the reason talk forums can be extremely misleading. You have people giving advice on yote hunting that have been calling for a year and called two in and suddenly they are experts on the net giving faulty advice as fact.


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

When I have more time for this hobby, whoops, i meant addiction. I think I will use a 17 hmr for a season and write a book about every stand I make and the ballistics and accuracy versus the 204, 223, 22-250, and 243. then we will have all the facts, not just the biased side of things, but first, i need to get expirience so maybe after 5 years I will do this.


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## FullClip (Jan 22, 2007)

Im going with thumbs down to .17 hmr uke:


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

I was without internet last night when this thread popped up. I like choice number 3 (deleting it)...LOL. Right now I have to go play with my kids but then later maybe I will read some replies.

Don't get into a pissing match here and stay civilized boys. But my opinion is if you are going to shoot some serious coyotes you better use a centerfire. I shoot a 243 and a 223 and I have seen some tough coyotes do some crazy things after shots. If you live in an area that only allows rimfire I can see your concern. Of course if your going to limit your shots to 50 yards you always have the smoothbore option too.

To quickly answer the tournament question:

If you are spending money to be in a tournament (gas, hotel, food, entry fee) you want to make as many stands as you can. One thing that will limit your stands is tracking a coyote that was not hit properly. Why would anyone even consider a rimfire over a centerfire in a tournament? In a tournament your goal is to shoot as many coyotes in a time period as you can. As long as the tournament organizer doesn't have a caliber limit (the Classic does this year...I think 243 is the biggest allowed), then fur friendliness is not really a concern, as the predators are kept to fund the tournament. If you have ever hunted a few tournaments you understand my logic here. My 2 cents...take it or leave it.


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## eman_777 (Jan 13, 2008)

The scenario below that 1 shot wrote, matches me exactly. I didn't know anything about coyote hunting, and asked on a differant website and local people in gunshops about the .17 HMR and coyotes.... needless to say, I bought one and took it out yesterday and had my first shot at a coyote. I hit him in the front quarter at about 100 yds, and thought for sure he would go down, as he was spinning around like I saw on the DVD's I bought, and then he took off sprinting away. I tracked for about 2 miles with a good blood trail and had to turn back because it was getting dark and I wasn't about to get caught out there with a wounded animal after sundown. So I cant give a response as of yet, but wanted to share my "real life proof"......or lack there of. Oh and like 1 shot said, I cant afford another gun. Maybe I will have to use my -06. Thanks guys for the comments, and any additional info would always be appreciated

1 shot wrote: 
hagfan, 
Another scenerio 
The problem is a newbie comes in says hey I'm a duck hunter I want to start coyote hunting I dont own any rifles. I have been reading about this 17 hmr. Can I use that to kill coyotes? 
Jonnhy#5 from Nodak says yes you can kill coyotes with it. True statement but misleading. 
What he doesn't tell him is he himself would not rely on it for an all purpose coyote gun. But now Duckhunter buys a 17hmr thinking he's got himself coyote gun. But obviously is new to the rifle thing. He probably doesn't understand the trejectory of the rifle and ft pounds of energy at greater yards. And probably not a marksman. And remember he's a new caller also and he gets coyotes in but they are hanging up at 150, 200 yards he keeps missing and keeps getting discouraged. Finally somebody tells him hey you need a differnet gun. But ducky cant buy a new gun because he spent all of his money on that 17. 
Maybe not the best scenerio but I hope you see my point.


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## huntnfish08 (Nov 10, 2007)

I voted to keep them.

Reason: I am new to predator hunting as of this season. The only rifle I own that I felt to be adequate for taking a coyote was my 17HMR. My next step up is a 270. Not very fur friendly. I don't consider my 22lr's a step up. Poor quality bullets/limited energy.

I researched the subject on other forums and found this forum posted in a link. So far I've found this site and it's members to be the most informative without a lot of the BS threads on the other sites. I believe its due to the large quantity of experienced hunters sharing their information on these threads and "scaring" out the "wannabe's". So this is the Forum I go to for good information and better hunting stories!

I would consider myself an excellent shot.(I'm an Army Veteran at age 23. Expert marksmanship scores. 13 years hunting experience, both gun and Archery.) I choose Archery whitetail as my favorite style of hunting. I enjoy the hunt, close quarters, and difficulty of drawing on a deer. Using a 17HMR on coyotes gives me the same satisfaction of knowing that I have to know my prey well enough to get him into close quarters in order to get a chance at a shot. I don't mind passing if no shot presents itself or if the range is to far. Its the same way with a bow. Some say a shotgun would just as good or better. Maybe, it's just not my preference.

So I hunt coyotes with my 17HMR. I would recommend it to all who know how to set limitations. Somewhere out there somebuddy probably enjoys theirs as much as I enjoy mine. Why take away a thread from the people that will enjoy reading about the subject of 17HMR. Especially when it is a thread that will educate someone on the subject. I, nor you, can keep a person from making a bad decision due to ignorance.

*We can help someone to make a decision based on facts and experiences that we share on these threads.*


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If 17HMR threads trip your trigger have at them. If they don't they don't have to read them. I guess it's better to have a thread that informs people than to have them learn the hard way. They get a little old for me also, but I don't care. I only look at them to make sure people involved in the whiz contests stay in line. If I get a direct question I answer them. After all these years I still subscribe to the idea that there are no dumb questions, only dumb answers.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

When all is said and done, it is up to the *reader* to separate the wheat from the chaff...


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

A comment on the "new guy who goes and buys a gun then realizes it isn't the best gun".

Where was his research? I don't know about most of you, but I can't afford to lose hundreds of dollars on a gun purchase that went bad. I bought two rifles this past year, and I made darn sure that I did my research prior to buying. I shopped around, talked to people who knew their stuff, read as many articles as I could on the type of guns I was looking at, talked to the employees at about 5 gun shops, etc. If a person goes out and buys lets say a 17 HMR because ONE person told them to, then they realize they should have gone with something else, then I don't feel for them at all. A gun isn't an impulse purchase item like a pen or a pack of gum. Plan and be patient!


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## ILcoyote_amateur (Dec 26, 2007)

I don't claim to be any expert here, but I've seen coyotes shot with a lot of different rifles and they are pretty tough at times. I won't BS, but I'll tell what really happened with each caliber I've seen.

.204, my gun shot a yote at 200 yards behind the rib cage. Got knocked down, ran about 20 yards and died.

.22-250 Buddy's gun, seen bang-flops with good hits to the chest cavity, seen runoffs with marginal hits.

.243 Dad's gun, same as 22-250, bang flop with good hit, walk offs with bad hits.

.270 WSM My gun, hit the dog a little low, blew near side leg off, broke far leg. Dog still managed to push itself 15 yards before dying.

30-06 Dad's, 3 dogs bang flop hit in chest, stomack, head.

300 rem-mag Buddy's, 2 dogs bang flop shot from front to back.

This is all first hand experience, my only comment is that small caliber rifles will leave you with wounded dogs if you do not hit the sweet spot. IMHO, coyotes are tough and if you can only buy one gun to kill them, step up to something like a .243. If you plan to keep fur, then get a good .204, .223, 22-250 cal and learn to shoot it well. :sniper: But if you're intent is just to make sure the dog is dead don't mess with the little stuff.

I personally use my .204 for calling because shots are usually 200 yds or less and its a tack driver. But for nusaince dogs on the farm the .270 or 06 comes out every time. Even a coyote deserves a quick death.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

ILcoyote_amateur said:


> Even a coyote deserves a quick death.


Amen! As sportsmen you need to have respect for the wildlife you hunt.


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

Fallguy said:


> ...Where was his research?...talked to the employees at about 5 gun shops, etc...


I totally agree with everything you said. unfortunately, or maybe fortunately for sites like this, these days more than half the "info" you get at the gun stores is utter and complete CRAP! There is more useful and helpful and TRUTHFUL info on one thread here than with an entire staff at most of the big box stores. You would not believe some of the stuff I have heard come from behind the counter at some of these places. No, because of this, the 17hmr threads need to stay. Most bozos at the stores couldn't differentiate between a 17hmr and a hole in the ground (which some might argue is where the hummer goes.) I think we could help more people with mundane and repetative threads than we could leaving them out in the cold.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

hagfan72

I hear where you're coming from. Notice I mentioned more than JUST talking to gun store people, I crossed referenced. That is important if you want to get accurate reports on products. My choice of a Weatherby Vanguard bolt action was right on the money. Did every source I look at recommend it as it's first choice? NO. But the important things I wanted were reflected, and the cross referencing helped me make that decisioin.

I know that in my town when I go to the sporting goods stores there are certain people that I am going to talk to about firearms. They have proven themselves and people recommend them to you because they know their stuff.


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

Fallguy, I did notice that you crossreferenced and I agree that that is an important step in buying a new gun. And, I also agreed that talking to people in the "know" is another important step. That is why I said that the thread needs to stay, because sites like this are what a lot of newbies look at.

You and I are lucky that we can separate the knowledgeable from the moronic when we are at a gun counter. A lot of guys can't do that. That is where we can help.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

hagfan

I am starting to see these 17 HMR threads in a different light now. Thank you.


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## Mocsy (Jan 11, 2008)

i just have to add my 2 cents.

i had a hunting buddy last year that bought a 17 it was going to be his unstopable coyote gun. went out one night **** hunting with the hounds and had a pack run the dogs off tree. so we packed up the dogs up and started to spot light a bit. he had his 17 i was driving. we spoted a lone yote about a 100 yards out and i stopped so he could shoot. i held the light on it and he had a perfect broadside shot. as u can imagine he wounded it. we picked up the blood trail and followed it about 200 yards in to a corn field and lost it. 
the next week he decided that the 17 wasnt the perfect coyote gun and bought a 243. we got it sighted in and were driving home and a fox crossed the road in from of us. i stopped again and whistled and the fox also stopped 25 yards ahead of us on the side of the road. he shot and wounded it too we trailed it 100 yards into the corn and lost the blood trail.

i think it is 90 percent shooter and 10 percent gun. the shooter has to know his gun and how to shoot it b4 anything can be successfully killed


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

mocsy

Did your friend have a 17 HMR or was it a 17 centerfire?


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## Mocsy (Jan 11, 2008)

it was the hmr


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## fasenbuster (Jan 12, 2008)

Mocsy,
You can shoot from a vehicle and with a spot light in SD ?
You've got it made. If that were the case here in Il. I would have allot more kills under my belt.


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## majo22 (Jan 27, 2008)

personally dont think the hmr would do it i used to have one. How about the .17 remington centerfire recently inherited one a sako with 4-16x42 scope is it enough gun to do the job? any experince with on?


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## mrmcgee (Jan 21, 2008)

Henry rifles had a 17 HMR rifle that they advertise as a varmint rifle. They also list a few of what they consider varmint for their rifle. The largest varmint that they list is a fox. I have only seen one fox in the woods around here and a fox is quite a bit smaller then the coyotes. IF a 17 HMR was big enough for coyotes I would think that they would list them so they could sell more rifles and make more money. Marketing a product to the proper client is how ANY company makes money and has happy customers. SO I think if people just read some adds for the products they are buying they would see that even manufacterers of 17 HMR don't list coyotes as good targets for their rifles.


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

hagfan72 said:


> Nice point, 1 shot. But still, there are a lot of guys, myself included, that keep a hummer in the truck, and would not hesitate one second, to put crosshairs on fur. Now, if after maiming a few with it, I might change my tune and join in with the "never" crowd. But that is my problem; I've never got the chance to try to take one since I got my 17.


 I'm like him, I keep a 17hmr in the truck "just in case" I actually think its a decent yote gun at close range. All in all I would'nt be afraid to take a shot out to 250, but no more :sniper:


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## Cathunter (Jan 26, 2008)

Im not saying the .17hmr is a great coyote round or anything but i know it will get the job done with good shot placement. Its all i hunt with due to the fact its all i have until i get some more money saved up. I have personally seen 4 coyotes and 2 cats killed with it. Two of the coyotes were killed by me as well as one of the cats. The cat at 50 yards and one coyote at 295 yds and the other at 180. Also my dad killed one of the other coyotes at almost 180 and my cousin killed the other cat at about 45 yards with all but the one my dad shot being bang flops due to the fact that it was pretty windy that day and didnt connect where he wanted to. It ran about 45 yards and layed down long enough for dad to go find it and put another round in the boiler room.


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

'm going to have to call a BS on that, the 17 has about 72lbs. of energy at 150 yards. A 20 grain bullet loses half of its energy at 100 yards, it isn't going to have very much at all at 180 and 295.


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## Cathunter (Jan 26, 2008)

I cant believe nobody else in here has killed one that far away with a .17 hmr. My cousin didnt believe it could be done either but after being there with me on both occasions he now knows. I guess people just dont understand the fact that it dont take much to kill a coyote when you hit it in the ear which is a direct path to the brain.  The gun i was using would be the Marlin 917V with a free floating bull barrel shooting Winchesters 17 grain V-Max bullets topped with a Simmons Pro Hunter 3-9-40. You want to call bs thats your opinion but i think judging a kill by the pounds of energy is bs. Sure it does effect what gets done in the end but more so does good shot placement.


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## johngfoster (Oct 21, 2007)

Please, can we just let this die? A BB can kill a coyote if you shoot it in the right place. You wouldn't hunt coyotes with a BB gun though. Just let it go.


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## Cathunter (Jan 26, 2008)

Actually if you look in a Predator Extreme magazine sometime they always have articles about hunting coyote with air rifles with great success. And here in Missouri they just changed the rule for this years deer season and made it legal to hunt deer with .40 cal air rifles. Yes its alot bigger than a .17 but still an air rifle. Just thought id let you know.


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