# Careers



## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

I am finishing up my first 2 years at college and need to transfer to a 4 year school next fall. I am having some real problems trying to decide where to transfer and what I want to major in. I already went through this whole problem my senior year in high school. I didn't know what I wanted to major in or where I wanted to go to school. I was accepted at the U of M Twin Cities in the College of Natural Resources. I didn't know if that is what I wanted to major in, so I went to a Community College instead. I heard jobs are hard to come by and pay is low, so it kind of turned me away from this area.

I've had two more years to try to figure this stuff out- and still haven't. I was leaning towards a construction management degree. My Dad owns a construction company and I thought I may like doing what he does. He keeps telling me not to do it. He says it is stressful, I will work long hours, and starting pay will be horrible. If anybody works in this field, please post up or send a PM and share any info with me that you think may be helpful.

My Dad keeps talking about me being a Civil Engineer, because this incorporates construction management skills with other skills as well. He says work days are usually 8 hours, great benefits- especially with state/county employment, and he thinks this would suit me well. The problem is I hate math. It doesn't come easy to me and I don't like it. I know a great deal of Calculus needs to be taken to earn a degree in Civil Engineering. My Dad says you really don't use it that much at the job though. I disagree. Why would you need all that math if your not going to use it? If any body could answer any of these questions or offer any info about this occupation, please post here or send me a PM or email.

I have also been thinking about possibly a general business degree. Then I would have a wide range of areas that I could work in. The only thing is, I don't know if I could sit at a desk all day inside. I get antsy enough at school during a 2 hour class. If anybody could offer any info about this or a related degree, please post up or send a PM or email.

All this has got me thinking that maybe I don't belong at a college. In my 2 years at a community college, I have a 3.30 GPA and have not had much trouble at all, except in Calculus. But if I don't know what I want to go for, should I be going to school? This got me thinking about other occupations like electricians, plumbers, land surveyors(which require some school), and stuff like that. If anybody could give me some information on these occupations, that would be great.

I little background of myself- I am addicted to waterfowling like most people on this site and love to hunt many other things including turkey, deer, dove, and pheasants. I also love to fish, both during hard water months and open water. I would like a job that would maximize the amount of time I could do these things, and also live in an area where hunting and fishing is good. Driving around scouting out areas is just as fun to me as actually hunting. I used to live in the country until thousands of houses were built in our area. I would like to be able to live out in the country somewhere after I graduate and get a job, like far Western MN, Northern MN, or even North Dakota.

I know you guys can't decide my future and my career for me, I am just looking for some direction and information to help me decide what I would like to do. I would like to hear about everybodys career. If you would like to share something with me about a different career than what I listed, please feel free to do so. I know some people will look at this and think I am a complete idiot and that is fine. I am just in some desperate need of help and I thought the people on this site would be a good resource.

Thanks for anything you can share. I will be spending the rest of the day researching colleges and careers, and filling out applications to colleges.


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## Squeeker (Apr 1, 2004)

Not sure about Civil Engineering degree programs down in the States, but up here in Canada I am pretty sure that civil engineering programs drop Calculus after the second year. That is the big difference (aside from the actual difference in disciplines) between the 3 big engineering programs (electrical, mechanical, civil)...Mechanical and Electrical go all 4 years with Calculus, whereas Civil will drop it after the second year.

Take this with a grain of salt though, as my source on this is a Mechanical engineer and there is apparently a rivalry between the 3 majors. At least worth checking into though.

Don't think it matters what program you do take (when it comes to a degree program), you will rarely use all of the knowledge gained anyways. They teach theories that sometimes just aren't relevant to life in any way shape or form. Just consider it as a stepping stone to getting your first decent paying job and then go from there.


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## birddog131 (Oct 28, 2004)

Wow: good post and it appears you have done a lot of thinking: I guess I am curious as to the construction company your father owns: If he owns the company chances are he does well: I would recommend following in his footsteps: Engenering you can't go wrong: As for colleges, I'll give a plug for ol' Bemidji State University: Awesome hunting and fishing opportunities: Only 4 hours from the cities, 1-1/2 from L.O.W. right in the heart of fishing country: The school is on the lake, so you can ice fish between classes, tons of state land to hunt grouse, deer, bear:
ooops, I forgot you are looking at going to school! Seems I spent more time in the outdoors than I did in class!


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Looks like you have got a lot to consider, I remember those days well. I started at NDSU in pharmacy, but after I realized I hate hospitals and couldn't pronounce half of the classes...I thought I'd better look elsewhere (funny though...I married a pharmacist).

If you're not going to follow in your dad's footsteps, and you're not exactly 100% sure what you want to do...you should look into a degree that'll keep your options open. That's where something like a business degree fits. I personally went the route of Management Informational Systems, as you learn a lot on the computer side and the business side. Very versatile, and there's no doubt a degree in technology will help you in the future. I was in your shoes in college, I had no idea what I wanted to do. But your career will find you if you don't find it first, life is funny that way.

I personally liked NDSU and would recommend it. Heck, I've hunted NDSU land for honkers over 30 days during my college career...my kind of college.  I'm also a bit biased as I'm a ND nut and will never leave. Why the heck would someone with the passion in the outdoors want to live anywhere else? :beer:

My 2 cents. Feel free to drop me a pm if anything I posted interests you.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Make sure that you get a degree or job in something that will allow you to afford what you want to do. There will be a time period where you will not have a tone of time off because you will not start out as an owner (unless you take over dads gig). Put your time in and enjoy what you do and work hard early to get ahead.

A wise man once told me if you enjoy your job you will never work a day in your life!!!!!


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## wheatleyNEB (Feb 25, 2004)

You have to like doing what ever you want to go to school for. I got the Electronics Engineering degree because I like to play around and build little circuits. All I have to say is that make sure that you have an intrest in the degree you will be getting.


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

Think of yourself as a free agent... You get to decide what you want to do and what kind of brand/image you want to create for yourself through work, relationships, and even where you end up living.

The other important thing to consider is the job going to offer value?

I know a lot of people who don't let their work define them, they define their work and are passionate about it too.

I would also look at the jobs and see what kind of opportunites are the greatest. But mostly you want to do something you love to do. Why shouldn't you?

I went into Early Childhood Education because there was a huge need for males and was very successful at it too. I branched out and started consulting and expanding my degree. But the funny part about it, I am not in the education field anymore. I am working at a place where there is a great amount of value. It's what I love to do, so it's kind of like a vocation/vacation.

It's good to see your thinking about your future and looking for guidance. Hope this forum will help you out.

Scott


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks for the replys so far. About my Dad's construction company- He does own it by himself. He doesn't like his job, which is why he tells me to major in something different than construction management. He finds it really stressful and doesn't like working with the customers(at least ones that are difficult, don't pay, and think they know more than him). He is very successful however, even though he doesn't like it. I don't believe he wants me to follow in his footsteps. He said if I seriously want to become a construction manager, he wouldn't allow me to earn a degree in it. He said this would be my last year in college, and I could go to work with him. He says he could teach me way more about construction management in a few months than any school could ever teach me, and I think he is probably right. I don't know what to do. I searched the web for the last 3 hours for career related information and colleges. I got some applications printed out and I have to go fill them out now.

Keep the replys coming- It helps some.


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## Shu (Oct 21, 2003)

I know some cops and firemen that have great schedules for the outdoors. Especially firemen. A friend's dad hunts almost every day of duck season. They sometimes work 24 hour shifts which can lead to a lot of time off. They can also work other people's shifts and have them work during the time they want off. Great benefits plus opportunity for a nice hunting/fishing schedule.
But, like others have said, if you don't like your job it isn't worth doing it just for the schedule in my opinion.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

If you are interested in how things work, take things apart, fix stuff, work on your car, and derive pleasure from those activities; then become an engineer.

I was in your shoes too. I was approaching 30, never finished college, and figured I had better figure out what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I had worked in restaurants, factories, construction, you name it.

Now I am an environmental engineering student. That means I will someday be able to design stream and wetland restortation projects. It really focuses on water and what water does. I got into it because water=ducks, and I love ducks.

I really enjoy some of it and really hate some of it too. The math isn't too bad. Although any really hard math will be done by a computer of calculator in your career, you still need the theory behind it or you will never know what to plug into the calculator to begin with. I am in my 3rd and last semester of calculus now, only to look forward to statistics and differential equations. DOH!

Anyhow, the math isn't so bad for me because as I progress in to more advanced physics, chemistry, etc, I see how and why it is used. When I see how it all ties together, that's when if becomes really fascinating.

Maybe I am just a geek. But I find physics and engineering courses quite captivating. I think it is almost an advantage being older because I have the world experience, and now can see how the science applies to it.

Most importantly, DO WHAT YOU LOVE! If you love the outdoors, then maybe the College of Natural Resouces is for you. Sure, the pay isn't great. But there are a lot of highly paid people that are miserable, and a lot of not-so-highly-paid people that do what they love and are very content.

Robert


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## get the net (Oct 28, 2004)

Choosing a career is tough. I believe current statistics say that most people change jobs a minimum of 5-7 times in their lifetime now. Compared to 1-3 times in the past.

A degree which allows you to diversify if needed would be ideal. Many people are working sucessfully in fields outside their degree, or have gone back for further education once they find their chosen field.

AS far as finding that job that allows you to continue all your hunting, fishing, just like now while you are a student, GOOD LUCK!!!! and when you do let me know, that's what I want to do to.

Oh yeah, remember when you buy that first house, get married, have those kids that tends to throw you a curve ball for spare time to. Enjoy your freedom now, in a few short years you will join the rest of us, 50 plus hours a week, making a mortgage payment, paying insurance, truck payments, boat payment, sound great?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I was in your shoes once myself and did the general business thing and got into sales. Sales and medicine are two of the highest paying vocations and outside sales can give you wide variety of daily situations and for me at least its less boring and very little real supervision which can translate into a lot of free time for hunting if you get good at it and perform the rest of the year.
That said if I was starting over right now I would go into medicine with something that would focus on elderly patients there is going to be a big bulge in that demographic for the next 35-40 years, which would cover most of your working life. And its a clean white collar type job that has predictable hours and good income potential. It also is needed in areas of the country that will not support many types of sales.
Thats what I'm urging my kids to get into anyway.

I'm like your dad tired of what I'm doing and wishing I was doing something else but stuck there because of the income and responsibilites I have. 
Whatever you do try to find something you really think you will like because as mentioned above when you have kids and all the responsibilities of a family you lose some flexibility to try new things. If you postpone haveing a family though, you can try a few different things and see what you think of the job. A very good way to figure this out is if you have an interest in say, physical therapy, is to look for someone in that field and volunteer to work for them even if its part time just working in their office doing paperwork or what ever will give you a lot better feel for it than anything academia can offer. Then go to the right place in academia to get the training.
Remember you are young and can change your mind without any real problems so don't worry about it try a few things, follow your heart though because its not fun not to like what you do for a living and many people don't. Medicine has lots of different angles, you don't have to be a doctor.


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## Brett B (Feb 13, 2005)

I am an avid outdoorsman and love to get out whenever i can. I thought about being a CO one time, but decided if i wanted to hunt and fish that this was not the way to go. I finally decided to major in Park and Recreation Management with an emphasis in Natural Resources. There are a lot of options out there with this degree and i am doing my internship at Grand Teton National Park right now being a Naturalist. I absolutely love it and want to do it for a career. Sure the pay isn't great, but going to work and teaching kids about the outdoors, taking people on hikes, taking people to watch sage grouse strut...to me that's not work....that's having fun. The jobs seem to be a little on the low side, but as i found keep looking and you'll find. A lot of it might start out seasonal, but everyone has to start somewhere. I don't know if this sounds interesting to you at all, but if it does i would definitely take a serious look into it. You get to work for the state or federal govt. which allows great benefits. At first you may not get off Sat. and Sun., but that allows you to get out hunting and fishing when everyone else is at work....i like that idea! If your passionate for the outdoors and like helping people and teaching them, i would give this a look. I've been in your shoes and was a el ed major for two years before i switched over. I'm glad i did. Good luck to you man and i hope you find something you really enjoy. Oh yeah, i went to the University of Nebraska-Kearney...pretty good little school. Good luck to you!


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## ej4prmc (Dec 3, 2004)

Land Surveyor! You get to be outdoors most days :beer: We need poeple in this field.


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## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

Maple Lake....you mentioned Electrician in your original post. Sounds to me like that would be something good for you to get into. With your dad having a construction business, they always need licensed electricians to wire up the new houses. Electricians make decent money and with construction being somewhat seasonal, you can have a lot of time off during the fall. I used to hunt with a guy that was an electrcian and worked a bunch of hours during the summer time and made more money that most people during that time of the year only, and he was able to be off from october through about january every year so he could hunt all the time.


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## bubolc (Aug 11, 2003)

Maple Lake, PM'd you.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

ej4prmc said:


> Land Surveyor! You get to be outdoors most days :beer: We need poeple in this field.


I really enjoy surveying. I am NOT a PLS but have to do a lot of surveying for the stream research that we do here at NC State. I was somewhat thrown into the mix and do not have any formal training or classroom instruction yet, but will soon.

The highlight of last summer's research was when I forgot that someone had set the Topcon GTS-300 behind my truck and, well.....................they are really tough, but cannot hold up to being run over. 

It was repairable though. Thank goodness I work for a university.

Robert


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

I just finished graduate school and recieved my MBA in Finance last year from the U of M. My advice would be to specialize in a field that has good growth potential and demand. What Bob M said about the Medical Communitty id right, there is going to be allot of demand stemming from this population growth, which means that as they age and the number of retirees grows, so will other indirect jobs. I would honestly look at some labor projections to see where there is going ot be some projected growth and look at those careers first. There is no rule saying that you ahve to take one of them, but as mentioned earlier it will give you an idea of a job that you could contact a professional in to get a better idea of how it may fit for you as a career.

Like Chris said there are allot of oportunities in the business world, but there is also allot of competition in the business world. If you were going to go the business route I would definately start interning this coming summer, internships in college start your "true" understanding of how the business world works and the responsibilities and relationships that are the working pieces of the puzzle. There is also the most imprtant factor...networking. An internship can offer you an advantage over nearly any candidate coming straight out of college without any internship experience... functional professional refernces, job competencies, EXPERIENCE ... there are very many more.

I know this got a little lengthy, but my point is that no matter what field you choose to pursue gaining some type of working knowledge of the profession and the relationships and responsibilities will better prepare you to succeed and live the life you would like.

Myself, right now I work 60 hours a week for a start-up that is growing very fast now, but I know that this fall I will get the much needed vacation I deserve because I worked my tail off. There is definately a balance between work and play, but also remember that if you work harder than anyone alse your first 5 years out of college you will be in a pretty good position to pick your path and have more control over your schedule.

Just my :2cents:


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## strand (Sep 29, 2004)

I am in a fisheries and wildlife program right now along with a criminal justice major at UND and I have to say that I am satisfied so far. The coursework isn't that tough and most of the professors are good instructors and easy to talk to. I work for the government in the summers as a Biological Tech and Ranger so I get some awesome hands on experience as well as being outdoors for 8 or more hours a day.

I originally was steering for an engineering degree as I like to work with my hands and have good technical abilities, but wildlife and the outdoors is my real passion. I would rather have a fun and interesting job that pays fairly well over a stressful high paying one. If you are solely interested in the pay Natural Resources probably isn't where you want to go as it may take 10 or more years before you are making good money.

If you are uncertain about what you want in school, dual majors are a good choice, it might tack another year on to your schedule but it isn't a real big deal beings you've been there for four or more getting a degree anyhow. I wouldn't mind being a CO, police officer, etc. and the criminal justice field is very interesting to me.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.


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## mallardwacker (Dec 6, 2004)

This is just my 2 cents, but you should decide how much you want to be behind a computer. I was a Land surveyor for 8 years in South Dakota for a couple different engineering firms. I enjoyed it until it got cold and the days of digging up section corners in the middle of winter got old. Thats when I wished I was an engineer sitting in a warm office all winter staying warm. I got bored doing the same thing over and over again, the challenge wasnt there so now I moved to Minnesota and currently drive from Hutchinson to Alberville every day. I run the GPS department and do estimating and 3D modeling and in the summer I can survey if I want. Construction can be stressful but fun. Your father is right if you want to do construction management learn from him, dont waste your time going to school any more. If there is one thing I learned over the years its you cant argue with experience and if you not happy with your chosen career, change it. Life is to short to not be happy... If you have any questions you can pm if you like.

Good Luck


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

ej4prmc said:


> Land Surveyor! You get to be outdoors most days :beer: We need people in this field.


*ej4prmc*,

I hear you! You wouldn't happen to be going to Wahpeton for the advanced GPS training tomorrow through Thursday would you? If you are look me up.

*mallardwacker*,

Been there but I can't say I wanted to be an engineer. Too cookie cutter with manuals to tell you whats needed. Land Surveying gets you outdoors and allows a little more free thought.

*Robert A. Langager*,

Been there, done that. 

*maple lake duck slayer*,

I would recommend you not pursue a Construction Management degree. Go with a Civil Engineering degree instead. The math is not that bad. I have a few friends with Construction Management degrees and they have found they wished the had done the Civil degree instead. You can still do Construction Management (Construction Engineer) but also it's the better road to obtain a PE no matter what state you live.

:beer:


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## SmellCat (Jul 28, 2004)

I looked into the wildlife management and fisheries route and I can tell you that there are no full time jobs for someone fresh out of school.

That's why I'm in land surveying school now. I love hunting, fishing, and just being outdoors and I can tell you that this is the field for me. Depending on where you want to live and work the amount of schooling required varies state by state. I'd be happy to fill you in on state by state requirements if you're interested.

I also looked into Construction Mgmt and seriously considered it. I will have to agree that your dad can teach you more than any foreign college professor ever will.

Good luck and pm me if you have any questions.


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

Duck Slayer,

I am a civil engineer. It wasn't my first choice for a career, but it is what I decided to pursue in the end.

Maybe I can answer a couple questions here:



> My Dad keeps talking about me being a Civil Engineer, because this incorporates construction management skills with other skills as well. He says work days are usually 8 hours, great benefits- especially with state/county employment, and he thinks this would suit me well.


I would like to know where the engineers work that he is referring to. I have never had a job where I worked a straight 40. I have worked for a DOT and 3 consultants ranging in size from a national 500+ person company to my current company with 10 people. Maybe some city or county engineers get these hours, but very few. Also, as a young engineer, you will be expected to do field work monitoring construction. You will work the same hours as the contractor and I know of no contractor that works a straight 40 week (at least not at this latitude where the construction season is 9 months long).



> he problem is I hate math. It doesn't come easy to me and I don't like it. I know a great deal of Calculus needs to be taken to earn a degree in Civil Engineering. My Dad says you really don't use it that much at the job though. I disagree. Why would you need all that math if your not going to use it?


You will be required to take calculus courses... the amount varies from school to school. This is so you will understand the "theory" behind the formulas and calculations (how the formulas were derived) you will be doing as an engineer. In my experience, you only use it for course work or if you go into research. 95% of the calculations I do are figuring out volumes, areas, quantities, etc. If you can do geometry and some algebra, you will do fine. A statistics course helps sometimes, too. With today's computer programs, you wouldn't even have to do some of the math...they will figure it out for you. You still need an understanding of how the computer program gets its results.



> Been there but I can't say I wanted to be an engineer. Too cookie cutter with manuals to tell you whats needed.


Not so, unless your talking structures. I guess road constructoin, also. Every construction project has a set of standards that have to be met to ensure the project meets acceptable criteria. Most of my work pertains to site design, earthwork, or environmental disciplines. I hardly ever use any manuals. Use a few formulas to prove what I designed meets the requirements, but the majority of work is figuring out how to blend different ideas into one design that will work.

That being said, I do like my job. I am in a position and company now where my work week can be very flexible.

I sent you a PM also. Our office is not far from Maple Lake. Maybe you would like to come to our office sometime and take a look at what we do.


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## mallardwacker (Dec 6, 2004)

I must say I agree with what everyone has to say. Yes surveyors get to work outside and have more freedom then engineers. On the down side, they dont get paid as well either. That is what I cant understand. We surveyors have just as much responsibility and as engineers. I cant count how many times I have been on the job site and had to redo grades for a road or change a pipe grade because the plan werent right. Also every time I write a number on a piece of wood, it better be right because if that contractor has to move that dirt a second time his is going to be ****** and your firm is going to pay. Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against engineers, I have been in this business along time and there is still a grudge between the 2 professions. My college instructor stated it best, Surveyors and engineers are like oil and water. We just dont get along. I think its a respect thing, personally.
One thing engineers forget is that a project STARTS with a survey and ENS with a survey.

Ok, I said my piece. Let the hammering begin. :beer:


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## Castmaster (Dec 9, 2004)

duckslayer,

I went the community college and state university routes to earn my Civil Engineering degree back in 1997. I have been registered as a professional engineer in ND for 2 years now. I've worked for large companies, gov't, private, etc. Currently work for gov't and do some moonlighting with my own business on the side. Strict adherance to ethics is important in the engineering field.

A few points you make in your post:

You hate math. Engineering requires strong math skills, no matter if you're a civil/mechanical/electrical/etc. engineer. While you don't use all the math skills in a full-time engineering job, the education and knowledge of how/where/when to apply the skills are important. My studies required 2 semesters of calculus and one semester of differential equations. They're weed-out classes. If you can't handle them, you probably can't handle engineering, although most math problems in engineering are not as complex as calculus problems. The calculations and skills Tumblebuck performs in the land development area are much less intensive that in the structural engineering field. If you hate math, most likely choosing the surveying field is not your choice of fields either. Are you a designer/creative type or are you a follower of others ideas?

You hate sitting inside. Most jobs will require inside work, not just engineering, so get used to it! I hate sitting inside too (especially on the nice days when I could be fishing), but I get out of the office enough to perform site investigations, construction inspection, client meetings, etc. Get used to it, your body will thank you for sitting inside when you're 50 years old, rather than working some construction job in the middle of winter. Are you an introvert (reserved) or an extrovert (free-speaking) type of person?

Pay, free-time, etc. While engineers make a good living, there are numerous other fields where the pay is better. The medical field pays well and is usually shift work (more hours/day=more days off), the energy field pays excellent, gov't pays well with good benefits, sales jobs, etc. As for free-time to enjoy the outdoors, chose the industry that best matches your interests. Tumblebuck stated in his post that he's rarely heard of an engineer working a 40-hour week. Most engineers working for gov't for example, work 40 hour weeks, especially if they're on the design side of the work. If engineers are on the consulting/construction side, they will be working longer hours. I'm on the design side so it's 40 hours/week with a couple hours extra as needed, and plenty of vacation time to hunt and fish.

Lifestyle. You like to hunt/fish and be outdoors. Do you "need" the latest marine electronics, archery equipment, rifles, trucks, boats to satisfy your hobby love? If so, chose a field that pays for them. Although you may like to hunt or fish, a wildlife/fisheries degree salary might not allow you the luxury to purchase the latest toys as say an engineer's salary might.

A business career may be the option for you. That way the education and work experience could help you start your own business someday, and if that day comes, you're the boss who can decide when and how often you want to chase geese or walleyes.

You've already invested 2 years of your time towards an education. Don't stop now, you're so close to getting that piece of paper. That piece of paper opens up so many opportunities in life. It could mean the difference between a good paying job with flexible schedule or a back-breaking job with no benefits or free-time.

Any other questions about engineering, drop me a line. Good luck with you career choice.


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## BRYAN_REMER (Sep 24, 2003)

I am surprised at how many civil engineers are on this website. As a civil engineer as well, I would have to say I love my job as well. I have the warm cushy office job in the winter and for now the nice summer site observation responsibility too. This was the best route for me, I was a going to school for Mechanical Engr. but then decided that wasn't for me which was the best decision I have made. I had better put in a plug for UND too, go SIOUX.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Get the 4 year Land Surveying degree from St. Cloud State. A Minnesota LS makes more than most civil engineers. About 2/3 of the MNLS are over 50 so the opportunities will get better. Good luck.


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## Castmaster (Dec 9, 2004)

Bryan,

As a Bison grad, the saying Sioux suck come to mind! Both good schools, the one to the south a little better!!

Zog,

So if the guy dislikes math and it doesn't come easy to him, the surveying route is the way to go? And Land Surveyor's, not Engineers, are making the bucks in MN? Where do you get this information from? I doubt that is true.

Duckslayer, after thinking about this, either go for construction management or business and marketing. Both will help you out as you will most likely graduate, work for your old man to learn the construction trade, and take over his business.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

The land surveyors math is mostly trig and geometry. Not too bad. As far as demand check it out. Good MNLS with management skills are getting more than PE's in MN unless you are an owner. You don't have to take my word for it check it out for yourself. Sorry PE's don't mean to hurt your eggo.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Ah what the heck go for the PE. Just found the ******* PE Exam :lol:

1. Calculate the smallest limb diameter on a persimmon tree that will support a 10 pound possum.
2. Which of the following cars will rust out the quickest when placed on blocks in your front yard? a) '66 Ford Fairlane b) '69 Chevrolet Chevelle c) '64 Pontiac GTO
3. If your uncle builds a still that operates at a capacity of 20 gallons of shine per hour, how many car radiators are necessary to condense the product?
4. A pulpwood cutter has chain saw that operates at 2700 rpm. The density of the pine trees in a plot to be harvested is 470 per acre. The lot is 2.3 acres in size. The average tree diameter is 14 inches. How many Budweiser Tall-Boys will it take to cut the trees?
5. If every old refrigerator in the state vented a charge of R-12 simultaneously, what would be the decrease in the ozone layer?
6. A front porch is constructed of 2x8 pine on 24-inch centers with a field rock foundation. The span is 8 feet and the porch length is 16 feet. The porch floor is 1 inch rough sawn pine. When the porch collapses, how many hound dogs will be killed?
7. A man owns a house and 3.7 acres of land in a hollow with an average slope of 15%. The man has 5 children. Can each of the children place a mobile home on the man's land?
8. A 2-ton pulpwood truck is overloaded and proceeding down a steep grade on a secondary road at 45 mph. The brakes fail. Given the average traffic loading of secondary roads, how many people will swerve to avoid the truck before it crashes at the bottom of the mountain? For extra credit, how many of the vehicles that swerved will have mufflers and uncracked windshields?
9. A Coal Mine operates a NFPA Class 1, Division 2 Hazardous Area. The mine employs 120 miners per shift. A gas warning is issued at the beginning of 3rd shift. How many cartons of unfiltered Camels will be smoked during the shift?
10. How many generations will it take before cattle develop two legs shorter than the others because of grazing along a mountainside?
_

This is humor. Love you guys :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

zogman,

Nice test. Surveyor=Glorified Engineer, beings we have to fix everything throughout the process.  That is a joke for those who are humor challenged. (engineers)

Castmaster,

Zogman isn't trying to hurt your feelings, but an RLS is in much more demand than a PE right now. This is mostly true in MN with the 4 year college requirement for your RLS. Hopfully St. Cloud will fill in the gap. In ND it's turning that direction also. Supply and demand! And yes I have also done design and the vast majority of it is dependent on manuals. There rarely seems a time where a survey works like a textbook.


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## rustygunner (Nov 28, 2004)

I have been a firefighter/paramedic for the last five years now..i work around 110 days a year, 56 hour work week, 24 on/24off/24on/24off/24on...96 off(hours) i am able to trade days with other guys..who like to have the summer off..i wait until fall and take 2 months off to chase geese.

Im not going to be rich by anymeans, i have a great pension, get to retire at 52 years old..maybe sooner i hope at 50!

And i have the oppurtunity to work my days off with a good second income to use for my hobbies (goose hunting)


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## Niles Short (Mar 18, 2004)

myself, when I finish school, I plan on teaching, hunting and fishing in Alaska (not necessarily in that order) lots a jobs in that field with reasonable starting pay and 4 months off. Do a general search under "teaching in alaska" you will find a site called ATP Alaska Teaching Placement, something like that. Anyway it will give you an general idea of opportunities. I know I will just have a hell of a good time up there


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks for all the replies guys. I still don't know what I want to major in, but you guys are definately making some good points and are getting me thinking about this some more. I am sending out 5 college applications tomorrow- I'm trying to keep my options open until I decide what exactly I want to major in. I am starting to focus more on a business degree, civil engineering degree, or a land surveying/mapping science degree. Again, thanks for all the replies.


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## aupeters (Jun 29, 2004)

You should just join the military. You can use your college credits to recieve advanced rank, so your sittin at about an E-3 with starting pay at about $1400 a month, plus housing allowances, free health plans, and 30 days paid vacation each year. There are many career fields in the military that focus on engineering. I;m not in the military but I plan on joining after I graduate High School here in the next month. 
:sniper:


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## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

Maple,

I will give you my two cents, take it for whatever you want. I went through the Land Surveying program at St. Cloud, and one problem you will have is that you will need a 2 year Civil Engineering degree to be admitted to the Surveying major. However, I, like you came from a junior college with a general AA degree, and it took me 3.5 years to do both the 2 year engineering degree and the SCSU program, while being an athlete, so it certainly can be done. St. Cloud tech has an excellent 2yr program. You can take tech classes from 8-3 every day, and 2 or 3 night classes at SCSU.

Also, I have one tip for you regarding calculus. Take them at your Junior college if you can, they will accept them at SCSU, and the classes are much easier (more one on one with instructors and you can understand them.) You should verify that SCSU still accepts the credits beforehand though, my brother did it and they took them.

As far as surveying as a career, I can only speak for my situation. I passed my LSIT exam, moved to Fargo and worked on a survey crew for 6 months, ran a survey crew for 6 months, came in the office and helped out with job prep and legal issues for 6 months, and then was promoted to oversee the survey crews. Other than being a little hectic sometimes coordinating people, jobs, etc, I think I have a very nice job. I am in the office, can basically get out late afternoon if I need to, and my company is very good as far as time off, etc. I will take the LS exam this fall.

I would consider my situation to be a fortunate and fast progression after speaking with friends from college and where they are in their surveying firms. If you want some pay info, you can PM me. The area you live in pays quite a bit more than up here. Maybe a good thing would be to get a job with an engineering firm for the summer on a survey crew, and find out firsthand what you think of it.

Sorry this got so long.


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## Castmaster (Dec 9, 2004)

Floyd, you made some nice points, especially the one about working as a helper on a survey crew during the summer. Duckslayer will find out if he likes the long hours and if it's something that would interest him for a 30-year career. I worked on a survey crew for a couple summers and it was great fun but not something I wanted to do long-term---it cut in to my fishing time too much! For each his own. Floyd also made a good point about taking the calculus and differential equations classes at the junior college--much easier. Get as many of the generals out of the way at the JC as possible. Floyd, it definitely sounds like you have progressed nicely in your career. Congratulations and good luck with the LS exam this fall.

It appears the group of Land Surveyors on this board outnumber the engineers! The LS group is a vocal one too! I can take the heat and I'm not afraid to dish it out either!! From my experience, Land Surveyors typically have very high egos, only contained by an engineer. Some LS's I've worked with are very sharp, others I think to myself.. :withstupid: Nice try on the ******* PE exam (humorous), but you would have to dumb-it-down considerably to make the ******* LS exam. Hmm..where should I start (little humor for you LS's, right back at ya boys/zog!):

1. Paint and label the stationing of the possum in the tree.
2. Label the stationing of the blocks under each of the rusty car tires with an orange painted lath. Note: Use paint wisely as excessive use will affect your answer to #5.
3. Convert 20 gallons to acre-feet.
4. How many Budweiser tall-boys will be consumed when a surveyor locates 1081 trees on 2.3 acres? For extra credit, estimate the survey time and calculate the amount of tall-boys consumed per hour.
5. Create a map and label the ozone layer.
6. Define the location of the hound dogs under the porch. For extra credit, true or false, will the hound dogs bite if approached by an intruding surveyor?
7. Can a surveyor possibly walk up a 15% slope? If no, define method of transportation.
8. Define the bottom of a mountain? For extra credit, label it on a drawing.
9. Of the 120 miners who smoke unfiltered camels, how many are surveyors? 
10. Measure the cattle's two short legs with a Gunter's chain.

Have a great week guys!! :beer:


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Castmaster :toofunny:

I could answer a couple off the top of my head.

#4 1 TB per tree = 3 weeks time. = +/- 9/hr.

#6 No, Engineer - Yes

#7 No, ATV

FLOYD,

Good luck this fall on the LS test.


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

Thanks for all the replys on this. I have been thinking a lot about this. One night last week, while barely being able to sit through Pre Calc because I was leaving for ND the next day, it really hit me that I don't like math. I was looking at just toughing it out and getting a major in Civil Engineering, but honestly, I just don't think I would make it through the math classes. If I wanted to be a Civil Engineer bad enough, I would probably be able to make myself get through it. I just don't see that happening. If I can't make myself get through it, I must not want it that bad. And trust me, I'm not just looking for an easy way out. It is too hard for me to sit down and do the homework so I learn the math. Instead, I have put serious consideration into a business degree. These seem flexible and there are lots of jobs that earn good money, and I have a little background in business. If anybody could offer some insight into the business profession and different degrees, please post up or PM me. I am really leaning this way. Now I just need to decide where to go to school.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Business degrees are good because they are general but they are also bad because they are general. Lots of people get business degrees. If you are going to go the business route make sure you do internships every summer in the field you want to work in. Experience is really really important.

I really love business. If I had to do it all over again I would get an undergrad in Economics and then I would go after an MBA.

I have a degree in Accounting and will have a masters degree in Natural Resource Management with an emphasis in social science (basically economics applied to Natural Resources) in May. If you like business and natural resoures than a degree in Natural Resource Management would be fun for you. But you will have some math, especially if you go to a Masters level.

I worked on all kinds of cool projects (at least to me). I worked with the ND game and fish, USFWS and other govt agencies on the economic value of many different resources. I worked on land value projects for the USFWS so they could use duck stamp dollars more efficiently when they purchased wetland and grassland easements. I worked on a study to assess the economic value of lake Sakakawea and Devils Lake for the ND game and fish too.

I've done alot of work in GIS (Geographic Information Systems) in the last year and a half and if you are interested in working in the conservation field they are always looking for people who know how to use this technology.


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## equinox (Oct 31, 2003)

BRYAN_REMER said:


> I am surprised at how many civil engineers are on this website. As a civil engineer as well, I would have to say I love my job as well. I have the warm cushy office job in the winter and for now the nice summer site observation responsibility too. This was the best route for me, I was a going to school for Mechanical Engr. but then decided that wasn't for me which was the best decision I have made. I had better put in a plug for UND too, go SIOUX.


AHHA HAH AH AHA HA HAHA AHHA !!!!! Now that is some funny Sh_t!! :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

I will be graduating with a degree in Construction Managment here in 3 weeks.

But taking over the family const buiss isnt bad either. :wink:


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

GB3,

You plan on working in the FM area when you are done with school?

Just wondering because I'm in the construction business myself (estimator) for an electrical company and would probably end up working with you someday.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

dosch said:


> GB3,
> 
> You plan on working in the FM area when you are done with school?
> 
> Just wondering because I'm in the construction business myself (estimator) for an electrical company and would probably end up working with you someday.


I'll be working for the family commerical construction company here in Fargo.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

If you like construction, go for it, dont let people try to talk you out of it. Personally, i worked underground construction for 3 straight summers and love it because you pretty much get winters off, works usually 12 hrs a day and the scenerio is different every day-that is what i love the most
good luck in your choice


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## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

I graduated U of M 32 years ago in forestry. One more year of government service will find me near retirement. If you go the natural resources route, get into a "student employment" agreement with a federal agency......gives you a summer job with guaranteed appointment when you graduate. Good life in the outdoors, fair pay and benefits. Get to meet a lot of folks who hunt and fish.
Good luck.


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## Ty (Mar 11, 2004)

Even though your successful doesnt make you happy if you know what I mean.

First thing you want is to be happy. Put that first then think money.

Dont let greed get the best of you.

:beer:


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## equinox (Oct 31, 2003)

GooseBuster3 said:


> dosch said:
> 
> 
> > GB3,
> ...


YEAH! Im sure you are just gonna "Take Over" arent ya!??!
:roll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :roll:


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