# Poached trophy deer stands as reminder to hunters



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdo ... 00387.html

Poached trophy deer stands as reminder to hunters
Star Tribune

February 20, 2008

A Minnesota deer hunter paid the price for poaching -- $1,500 in fines and restitution and five days in jail -- after he shot an eight-point buck in a state park, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources said.

That trophy-size deer taken in 2006 is now on display at Mille Lacs Kathio State Park, where the deer was taken.










Along with the fines and jail time, Joshua R. Lincoln, 20, of Hillman, also had his big-game hunting privileges suspended for three years, the DNR said.

According to the DNR, Lincoln was caught after conservation officer Paul Kuske received a call saying Lincoln had a poached deer in the back of his pickup. Kruse found an untagged buck and the head of a tagged buck in the truck bed.

A part of the restitution went to mount the deer. "It was a beautiful buck that likely spent its days in the state park," Kuske said. "It only seems appropriate that it be mounted and shared with those who visit Kathio."


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

Why do those CO's look so proud?

Might as well put me in jail for 3 years if I can't hunt that sucks. Bet he won't do anything like that again. :lol:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

They look proud because someone is getting a nice mount.


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

The Park is getting the mount if you had read the entire article.

It is high time we start to educate the Judges and DA prosecutors for they are the ones responsible for the lenient countenancing. If we do not educate them all in our communities across MN, then the same minimal sentencing will continue to be handed out.

He should have gotten at least 5 years loss of ALL hunting and fishing privileges and a $5,000 fines, 90 days jail with 80 days stayed as long as no further violations for next 10 years, and 200 hours of service work to his community, like upgrading a trial at the Park, cleaning up garbage from litterbugs, etc..


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

h2ofwlr said:


> The Park is getting the mount if you had read the entire stroy.
> 
> It is high time we start to educate the Judges and DA prosecutors for they are the ones responsible for the lenient countenancing. If we do not educate them all in our communities across MN, then the same minimal sentencing will continue to be handed out.
> 
> He should have gotten at least 5 years loss of ALL hunting and fishing privileges and a $5,000 fines, 90 days jail with 80 days stayed as long as no further violations for next 10 years, and 200 hours of service work to his community, like upgrading a trial at the Park, cleaning up garbage from litterbugs, etc..


As usual h2 knows everything and how everything in the world should be. I'm surprised your not the President yet cause as we all know everything would be much better with your unlimited wisdom. Those damn judges and prosecutors just aren't as educated as you are.


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

No, they are not for the most part. Look at the politicians. 2/3 are LAWYERS. Most are self serving idiots looking for personal power and not at all concerned about the common man. Tanata, you must be studying to be a lawyer, eh? :lol: 
Otherwise why would my comments about us sportsmen talking with judges and DAs even bother you? Remember MOST are not hunters, so they are indeed uneducated when it comes to wildlife issues. So us sportsmen can help educate them. Have lunch with them and explain the problems with lieneint sentences.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Would they ever start a limited hunt on State Parks? There are so many deer in the state park where I live and so many of them get hit my cars. I know one of my friends talked to one of the CO's that works there and he wants a hunting season to kinds thin thigns out.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

Cause they still have education in that field. Putting someone in jail for 3 months for shooting a deer period is stupid. Let alone 5k in fines and 200 hours of comminuty service. That is basically a year of his life gone. (community service instead of pay, 5k fines, 3 months jail) He's 20 and shot a deer, yes illegal and stupid, but he got what he deserved and is more than enough to deter him from doing it again.


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## mrmcgee (Jan 21, 2008)

Just a thought!

He is a poacher, which means he hunts illegally! Taking away his legal hunting rights is nothing to him. That's like busting someone for driving with a suspended license and suspending it for another year. He hunts illegally so what does he care about his legal rights? Take away his hunting rights, fishing rights, and his right to own firearms for LIFE. We need to send a clearer message that poaching will NOT be tollerated. If the punishment is too much to risk then SOME poachers will stop.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

mrmcgee said:


> Just a thought!
> 
> He is a poacher, which means he hunts illegally! Taking away his legal hunting rights is nothing to him. That's like busting someone for driving with a suspended license and suspending it for another year. He hunts illegally so what does he care about his legal rights? Take away his hunting rights, fishing rights, and his right to own firearms for LIFE. We need to send a clearer message that poaching will NOT be tollerated. If the punishment is too much to risk then SOME poachers will stop.


mcgee,

You just said that taking away his legal hunting rights means nothing to him. So what good will taking them away for life do? It will just mean nothing to him for a longer period of time. What needs to be done to poachers is this:

*Seize things from them. Vehicles used to poach, guns used to poach, snowmobiles, 4 wheelers, anything they have in possession while caught. This could include freezers used to store poached meat and antlers, butchering tools, etc. Give them the headache of going around and replacing all of their possessions. *


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## mrmcgee (Jan 21, 2008)

I agree fallguy.

I said take away the hunting, fishing, and right to own firearms for life. I think you have to "take away" their hunting rights just for show. You couldn't punish them for poaching and still let them hunt.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

You guys need to relax abit and think about it. He's a 20 year old kid that made a dumb move. But know what, it's not the end of the world. It's 1 deer out of millions. That's why they don't hand down harsh penalties like that. Yes it's illegal and takes away from someone that could have shot it legally, but it's 1 deer! Take away his rights for life, give me a break. Speeding is more dangerous to society and what do we do, give them a fine. Not take away their license and vehicle forever cause some kid could have walked across the road when they were doing 35 in a 25 and not been able to stop.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

> You guys need to relax abit and think about it. He's a 20 year old kid that made a dumb move


It may very well have been just a dumb move, however, ignorance is not a justifiable defense in any court in the country.

There are many 20 year olds out there that are hunting legally. age and stupidity should not be considered as a factor.

I agree with those that feel we need stiffer fines and penalties. You need to ask yourself did he do this because he was stupid or because he thought he could get away with it, He is the only one that can answer that question, however, either case is unacceptable and he got off with a light sentence IMO.

Bob


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## Turner (Oct 7, 2005)

If you want to throw age out there as a defense, remember, we put 18 year olds on the battle field because we think they are old enough to make life and death decisions in the blink of an eye. So at age 20 this young man definitely knew right from wrong, poor defense. Like Bob said did he do this as a dumb move or did he think he could get a way with it? Here is my take on it, he shot a nice 8 point buck, and he knew what he was doing the entire time, hunting for the rack. If he was only hunting to "put food on the table" a nice big doe would have filled the need. Individuals that get caught poaching big game usually know they are poaching. 
We have laws in place to punish the crime, we just have to get someone to start enforcing these laws. I am with Fall guy on this one, start taking away equipment and vehicles used in the crimes and sell the items off to help pay for the increased Game and Fish officers every one says we need and don't have the funding to put them on.


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

Some being 20 it is excusable and being 30 it is not? :eyeroll:

My Dad sat me down at age 16. he, said forget the 18 and concesquences. If you do something stupid, they will try you as an adult. So don't do nothing stupid as you are an adult now, so best remember that.

Tanata, you sure do not want to know my views on people that are robbers or do things to hurt people. As a clue... :sniper:


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

h2ofwlr said:


> Tanata, you sure do not want to know my views on people that are robbers or do things to hurt people. As a clue... :sniper:


LOL that is my security at my home. Come into my house uninvited and it will be the last house you ever enter. :sniper:


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

Well since age doesn't matter I guess....... think back to the dumb moves you guys did in college. Was it stupid, ya you probably would never do half that stuff again, but your over 18 why did you do it? How many people did absolutely ridiculous stuff when they were young, dumb, drunk, etc. and think back and go wow that was dumb. I guarantee you goes can look back and think man that was crazy what was I doing when you were past the age of 18.

Wasn't saying it was an excuse, just look at it from a different point. Some young kid made a stupid mistake and I think that penalty is more then enough to deter him from ever doing anything like that again.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Pointing out someone else's bad behavior to cover bad behavior, preteen mentality.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

4CurlRedleg said:


> Pointing out someone else's bad behavior to cover bad behavior, preteen mentality.


OK. Sounds good. There is no way to get a point across to any of you. All you saying 20 means nothing and I make a point that you guys know is true and then it goes to this. I could sit on here for 24 hours a day and run circles too but Im not going to waste my time.


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## glaciallakeslds (Nov 2, 2005)

I too am with fallguy on this. Take away a vehicle, guns, etc. the guys already has a taste of hunting illegally, taking his priviledge to have a license isn't going to stop from a repeat.

Tanata,

If this guy was 50 and did the same thing would you still feel the same way? I mean then he's not "young and dumb" and should know better. Do you think we should take it easy on him? I doubt it. I think what most of the guys on here are trying to say is that the penalty is too light in general. It doesn't matter how old you are, the penatly, and even the thought of being penalized, needs to deter people from poaching! And you're comment about one deer out of millions is ridiculous. If everyone thought that way we'd all go out and shoot one more deer. Then where would we be? Get your head out of your A$$!

On another note, have any of you guys seen the "Wall of Shame" put on by TIP in Minnesota? I was at a sportsman's show in St. Cloud last weekend and they have this huge display of mounted bucks and some other trophy animals that were taken illegally and recovered. They have stories about each one tellign about how the CO's made the arrests and stuff. Its really neat, but also make a guy want to puke. Some real beauties on display, it really is a shame, but I think its an effective way to get people to realize whats happening and help out!


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I vote for $1000 per point fine or maybe $50 per B&C points. That way a poacher will know ahead of time what his fine will be if busted.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

I think TANTA is more about putting a 20 year old in jail ( who poached a deer) with people who are drug dealers, thieves or worse? ( atleast that's what I am reading). Do we really need to be filling our jails with people who poached a deer? Think about it!! Our jails are already full the way it is. I do agree with Fallguy on seizure of things. Once you lose something ex. gun,truck, 4 wheelers will make more of an impact than a fine and loss of liscense. Now don't get me wrong. Jail time for repeat offeneders I have no problem with.



> Tanata,
> 
> If this guy was 50 and did the same thing would you still feel the same way? I mean then he's not "young and dumb" and should know better. Do you think we should take it easy on him? I doubt it. I think what most of the guys on here are trying to say is that the penalty is too light in general. It doesn't matter how old you are, the penatly, and even the thought of being penalized, needs to deter people from poaching! And you're comment about one deer out of millions is ridiculous. If everyone thought that way we'd all go out and shoot one more deer. Then where would we be? Get your head out of your A$$


That's a what if question when we are trying to talk about a specific incident. I do see what you are saying but the fact of this matter is that he is 20 not 50! There is A LOT of difference in knowledge between a 20 year old and a 50 year old.

Just because this young man shot 1 deer illegally doesn't mean he will be this way forever. Only time will tell........
I believe some on this website gave an Guide a second chance once he pipped up on this website about what happened at their duck camp! He was around the same age!

I guess what I am saying is, don't hang the kid tell you know all the story! 
I believe the saying is...Young,Dumb and full of......you know the rest

I know I was when I was that age.......


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## glaciallakeslds (Nov 2, 2005)

I understand what you're sayin about specific incidents and I too agree that Jail time might not be the best. What I was getting at about the 20 y/o vs a 50 y/o is that the law has to be the same for all. Now, if it goes to court and jury and all that, fine take the kids age into consideration, but we can't have laws saying if you're 20 yrs old you get 3 years and if you're 50 you get 12 years. You know? I think in general the laws need to be stiffer for all, to deter everyone from poaching, etc. Just one guys opinion here.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

The US Criminal System is about rehabilition, not locking people away and making an example of them.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

It looks like Tanata just beat me to the punch. I was just going to post that the American Criminal Justice System is all about Rehab. It has been proven that if they send him away, or take his stuff, that he will recommit. However if they work with him, give him community service, have him work with these Co's and help out with stuff yada yada, he will less likely recommit the crime.

Do I agree with this 100% no. Is poaching right? No Would I rather see this kid get off with a lighter sentence then a kid selling drugs? Yes.

Hate to say it but those DA's and prosecutors have bigger fish to fry. You have no idea how many people get off light. I know the Fargo officer that had a gun put in his face. I was supposed to be with him at the time. I was late and showed up a half an hour after I was suppose to otherwise I would have been standing next to him. The LAWYER that did this got 7 months in jail. WTF? Shouldn't this have been life? He shoved a loaded and COCKED 6 shooter in a cops face. He got it wrestled out of his hands but man talks about scary.

Guys I think we need to move on. Yes he made a mistake, but losing his privileges for life isn't the answer. BTW when was the last time you guys have heard of someone loosing there truck? Doesn't really happen.

:2cents:


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

I think next time someone shoots a rabbit or squirrel without their small game we should take their house and wife!!!!


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

Are you guys aware of Iowa's penalties for poaching? I'd have to look it up, but I know it is based on the B & C points the buck scores. A trophy buck may cost you $10,000, if my memory is correct.


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## headshot (Oct 26, 2006)

> Are you guys aware of Iowa's penalties for poaching? I'd have to look it up, but I know it is based on the B & C points the buck scores. A trophy buck may cost you $10,000, if my memory is correct


Sounds like it could get expensive. I don't aggree with that idea because a doe or fawn is just as important as a big buck. I think the penalties for poaching should be extreme. Not jail, community service or probation. Seriously retarded fines and property seizures in lieu of cash. All these BS approaches to criminal rehab are a waste of money. Just prosecuting poachers costs more then the penalties. When people refuse to follow rules anyways there is only one place to hurt them....In their wallet. :beer:

Tanata I aggree somewhat that we all have made stupid decisions that may or may not have landed us in trouble. But this guy was in a state park with one TAGGED deer head and another UNTAGGED deer that was alledgedly shot in the park. If he had a deer tag for the first deer then is it ok to assume that he knew the state regulations for deer hunting? I bet he knew exactly what he was doing and the only thing he regrets is getting caught.


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## WI_Trapper (Jan 20, 2006)

I am with you Headshot ................... He knew exactly what he was doing.
It takes a real hunter to shoot a deer in a State Park. If you think he will change, Sent him an email with a map as to where you hunt and let us know how that turns out in a couple of years. Thats my

:2cents:

Here is the Wall of Shame in Wisconsin as of Nov 2005

http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement/november2005.htm


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

:bowdown:


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## schultz345 (Jan 8, 2007)

You guys have way too much time on your hands, this topic has been beaten to death.


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