# A little rant



## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

I apologize in advance for this rant, but it's been bugging since I observed a lot of it while I was hunting this spring. Hopefully it's not aimed at anyone from this site. You'll know if it is or isn't.

I was reading the "Wanton Waste" thread and it made me realize that I really don't like what I see in a lot of these "hunters" when it comes to spring snow gooseing. People seem to lose respect for the game just because it's a conservation season. It's like all of a sudden the good ethics of the fall are gone, and some guys expect this big bloody massacre on every hunt. The sad part is that they will go through any means necessary to achieve what ever number it is that they are after.

I don't understand the road side sky busting, and the sneak slaughters. I know people aren't really that hungry. The price of going hunting far exceeds the price of buying the equivalent amount of food at the grocery store. Is it just a biggest wiener contest that I'm (thankfully) failing to see?

Let's say that Joe Who-ever and his buddy snuck up on a roost and shot 40 birds, even though only about 10 of them were actually dead upon impact of the first shot. Most of the others had to be ground pounded again, a few got away, whatever, they'll be slowly dying for the next three days on some pond, but at least they won't be killing the tundra anymore right?.

What about when Joe found another big roost that had birds just pouring into it. He was going to jump it but when he drove by they all got up and started to leave. Sure enough they flew over Joe's truck. He stands on the brakes and jumps out. Pumps 5 rounds into the sky and keeps driving because he only winged two of them, they fluttered down into a pond over the hill, not worth going to chase.

Meanwhile, I only killed 5 birds over my spread, a spread made of decoys that I painted, and an e-caller that I put together. My birds were dead when they hit the ground, or were dead no more than 30 seconds after. Is Joe a better hunter than I because he ended the day with 8 time more birds than me?

I feel that's what some guys think. Big #'s = Big tough man. That's how you get people that will waste a pile of good birds in the ditch. Some of these "hunters" need to set their egos aside and stop day dreaming about last Foiles movie they watched for a minute so they can actually think about what they are doing before they start melting their damn gun barrels.

Joe's tactics could easily be repeated during the fall duck/goose season. But if anyone saw a group of guys hunting Canada's this way they would be appalled. Moral of the story: Snow geese are animals too. Just like the deer you hunt, just like the pheasants you hunt, and just like the other ducks and geese you hunt. Snow goose populations are out of control, but that gives no one the right to forget about their ethics and shoot boxes and boxes of shells like complete idiots. It gives all hunters a black eye. Show some integrity and some respect for the birds that we are supposed to enjoy so much. And we wonder why the PETA freaks won't give up.

I'll get down now.
:soapbox:


----------



## outside (Feb 12, 2007)

...everything else in the world. Some people get it. Some people don't and no matter what you say you'll never change the minds of those that don't.


----------



## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Have to agree with you completely....I've personally tried some sneaks and road hunting and it's not much fun.....decoying is the way to go.

I know this is a conservation season...or at least it used to be...but how many snow geese does any one guy need to shoot in the Spring?....Do you need 50, 100, or 500? The hunt is what's important...or so I thought. I can't remember all the times that I've heard that, "we didn't have a very good hunt...only shot 25 birds today". Come - on.

IMO, the competition for the areas around certain towns, the lack of any TRUE birds numbers in reports and shooting and shooting because you can and the shear lack of ethics in the Spring is kind of appauling.

I think there can be a conservation season but limit the take to the Fall limits per day....20 geese per guy per day with no possession limit might be better than shooting for the shear sake of seeing how many you can pile up in one day. And...make jumping ponds illegal....I wonder how many snows are wounded and die the next day not to mention how many specks, honkers and ducks are killed along with the snows. Is it really that fun to sneak up on 1000 snows and shoot to see how many you can kill in 5 shots.....must be...but I don't get it.

Shoot your 20 geese and then buy some clay pigeons.


----------



## hntnmn23 (Feb 26, 2007)

well said!!!! Its a disgrace to hunters those "Joe's" who do those things. Some of us work hard to get the opportunity to go hunting and yet a few people ruin it for everyone. They take advantage of the privileges that we have been given. Its no wonder why hunters have negative images to some of the general public. When the many good hunters do good things it doesnt usually make the news, but one bad case makes headlines. In order to conserve what we do have, those "Joe's" need to realize the effects their actions have on everyone.


----------



## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

Diver, what you said makes sense to me also. you still see some of this "garbage in the fall, but too a much lesser extent. I was amazed by how many ditch whores i saw a couple weekends ago. most of these guys didn't have a snowball chance in hell at sneaking on some of the flocks i saw, but they sure did want to get them moving. I think they have the mindset that beacuse the CO was designed to reduce the # of birds and that the regulations are already loosened, that whats the big deal if they throw more of the hunting ethic out the window. to me its hunting just like any other season, only more work. alot of these slobs are the lazy fat bastards who wouldn't even think about packing 700 dekes out in 6" of mud by foot. it really made me sick to watch some of these guys chasing birds out of the area, and not even having a shot at them. i really wanted to say something to them, but given that it is legal had to bite my tongue. just my .02

on a side note, of the ditch whores i did see, only one vehicle had ND plates. not trying to start a war here, but i think many of you will see where I am going.


----------



## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

I guess I would have to agree.I have been along on some big hunts and to be honest, I cant remember any of the birds I pulled the trigger on.What I mainly remember is the way light geese fly.The flipping and baroll rolling while dumping air is quite a show.
It also really bugs me how these beutifull, inteligent birds are refered to as sky carp, or tundra maggots.This probably has to do with attitude "kill em all, save the tundra"that is now prevalent.
Twenty geese a day is more than enough, and may curb wanton waste.


----------



## Mallard Island (Mar 5, 2006)

AS LONG AS- HOW YOU HUNT IS LEGAL,AND WHAT YOU HUNT IS LEGAL , WHY MUST SOME DECOY HUNTERS BLAST,BLAME,BELITTLE,CUSS AT AND HATE ANYONE WHO DOES NOT HUNT THE WAY THEY DO? EVERYONE WHO HUNTS HAS WOUNDED,CRIPPLED AND LOST GAME. WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. I HAVE YET TO SEE A THREAD ON HOW BAD THE DECOY HUNTERS ARE AND THE NOT SO ETHICAL THINGS SOME OF THEM DO OR ANY SPECIAL LITTLE NAMES FOR THEM. WHY IS THAT ? WHY IS IT ALWAYS THE DITCH WHORES THAT SCREW THINGS UP FOR THE DECOY HUNTERS ? THE DO A GOOD ENOUGH JOB THEMSELVES .


----------



## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

decoy hunters can only screw up thier own hunts. ditch whores can clear out an area and make birds uneasy for everyone. its like taking a dump in a public restroom, chances are you're never gonna **** there again so why not **** on the seat? now everyone else has to put up with your crap(literally).


----------



## bandman (Feb 13, 2006)

Haha, that is a good but disturbing analogy! (I guess that's why I stay away from public toilet seats unless absolutely necessary!!) 
uke:


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I am with you also, I however do see there side in some cases. Some people can't afford a $10,000 trailer a $50,000 truck and thousand's of dollars of deeks that many people think you need to hunt. They have there trusty pump shot gun and there car. So I see both sides. Maybe next time we see something like this talk to them and Invite them to sit in your deeks for the day and get them hooked. Once they do it once they won't go back to sky blasting. My .02


----------



## bandman (Feb 13, 2006)

If you're passionate enough about something, you'll change your ways to get it. If you're smart enough with your money I don't see why you can't afford to finance a trailer and buy some decoys over a given period of time. Some people are just more willing to go the extra mile even if they can't necessarily afford it. They just make it work and deal with it.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of inviting people into your riches but maybe a lot of the times someone is pulling their weight a little more to take advantage at the greatest level. I know there is a lot of people that make life look so easy, but at the same time it's too easy to visually assume that they're so well off! I just don't like when people forget that a lot of the guys do work their butt's off for their toys and that shouldn't be taken away from them.


----------



## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

Mallard Island said:


> AS LONG AS- HOW YOU HUNT IS LEGAL


Is shooting from the road legal? I don't think it is, I'm honestly not sure, I've never checked because doing it has never crossed my mind.

And I'm not attacking the technique, I'm just saying that there are a lot of terrible shots taken. The shots while jumping out of trucks are usually WAY too long. And the shots on a jump are more often than not just random flock shooting. Even if you do aim at one bird, there are so many in front of and behind it that you can't help but wound 2 birds for every 1 that you aim at.



hunt4P&Y said:


> Some people can't afford a $10,000 trailer a $50,000 truck and thousand's of dollars of deeks that many people think you need to hunt.


My group consisted of 5 broke college students whom had no snow goose gear a month before season. We put together 200 decoys and a good e-caller by spending $100 each. Well, it was $200 for me because I made the e-caller. But really, all we used was what we could spare out of our tax returns. It all got jammed as tight as we could get it into one pick up box and topper. It can be done.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Im in the same boat, however I got a trailer that Is my lawncare trailer. I go to NDSU along with you.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Everyone has to start somewhere. I guarantee you finding a snow goose hunter who has never jumped snow geese will be one tough project. When I was 12 I would crawl a mile just to get into a firing line... 8) I was lucky though that I was raised in a decoying family, but I know many who didn't.

To each their own. At some point jumpers will give decoying a try. Call it an evolution of sorts. Do the cause a favor and ask a group of sneakers for a morning in the decoys and maybe they'll see your side.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Chris,

Very good. When I hunt with my group we have 12 blinds and a 20ft. enclosed, and we have let others join us. It is kind of like introducing a kid to hunting. After the first birds come in and they shoot premature, they get the point and wait for them to almost land.

I think it is a great thing to do.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

About 5 years ago we had a great duck roost that was a WPA and were dumping into a neighboring cornfield we were hunting. We saw the guys drive by with their boat (we were already setup in the field) and were proceeding to launch. I ran to my truck and drove over and invited them in. They accepted and we had mallards raining on us all afternoon. I still get emails from those guys telling me about their field hunting experiences since.

We're all in it together.


----------



## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

Chris Hustad said:


> When I was 12 I would crawl a mile just to get into a firing line... 8)


I don't think I could ever condemn a kid for trying to get some birds. Give him guidance till his ears bled, but not get seriously mad at him.

I'm just saying that I feel it's unethical to flock shoot, and it's unethical to jump out of your car to blast at snow geese that are 70 yards over top of you. And illegal, because that's using a motorized vehicle to aid in pursuit. No different than chasing down a coyote or a deer down with a snowmobile.

I wish they would send a few more game wardens out during the spring to be perfectly honest.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

diver_sniper said:


> I'm just saying that I feel it's unethical to flock shoot, and it's unethical to jump out of your car to blast at snow geese that are 70 yards over top of you.


It may have something to do with the Stages of a Hunter too, you're just past Phase 1 and many guys out in the spring are not.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/hunter-stages.php


----------



## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

Hmmm... Good call. I guess I'd put myself somewhere in the method stage with a few elements of the sportsman stage. I hadn't seen that article until now.


----------



## Mallard Island (Mar 5, 2006)

OH BY THE WAY I HAVE A TRAILER LOAD OF DECOYS, USED THEM TWICE LAST YEAR AND PASS SHOT WATERFOWL THE REST OF THE TIME . I GET MORE SATISFACTION MAKING AN EIGHTY YARD SHOT THAN GROUND POUNDING OR SHOOTING THEM IN THE FACE AT 20 YARDS. SEEMS THIS SPORT (SHOTGUNNING) STARTED AS PASSSHOOTING, BEFORE WE WERE ALL BORN, AND, EVOLVED INTO THE PERFECT DECOY HUNTERS/ THE PURISTS OF THIS SPORT!! I HAVE HUNTED SPOTS 11 DAYS IN A ROW AND HAVE NOT RUN THE BIRDS OUT OF AN AREA NO DECOY HUNTER CAN SAY THEY HAVE HUNTED A FEILD MORE THAN 3 DAYS IN A ROW WITHOUT RUNNING THE BIRDS OUT. EVEN THEN 3 DAYS IN ONE FIELD EVERYTHING HAS TO GO PERFECTLY TO GET IN AND OUT BEFORE ALL THE BIRDS GET TO THE FIELD YOU ARE IN. I HAVE GOTTEN TO THE POINT IN LIFE WERE I DONT HAVE TO KILL A LIMIT OF BIRDS TO PROVE TO MYSELF AND FRIENDS I AM A GREAT HUNTER, IF I KILL A GOOSE IT WAS A GOOD DAY IF I KILL 2 IT WAS A REALLY GOOD DAY AND IF I GET 3 WELL IT DOESNT GET ANY BETTER, AND THEN THERE IS THE DOG WORK, THEY ENJOY PASS SHOOTING MORE THAN HUNTING OVER DECOYS ALSO. THEIR WORK IS MORE ENJOYABLE ALSO THEY ACTUALLY ARE ABLE TO HUNT FOR BIRDS DOWNED RATHER THAN GO PICK UP BIRDS 20 YRDS OUT. I SUPPOSE WHEN MY HEALTH GOES AND I AM NOT ABLE TO WALK I WILL DECOY AGAIN,BUT TILL THEN I WILL REMAIN BI.
WHERE DOES IT SAY WE HAVE TO HUNT A CERTAIN WAY, DRIVE A CERTAIN TRUCK, OWN A CERTAIN DOG,USE ONLY THIS SHOTGUN, YAH THATS RIGHT, NO WHERE....


----------



## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Chris Hustad said:


> .
> To each their own. At some point jumpers will give decoying a try. Call it an evolution of sorts. .


Exactly, not going to lie, that was me two years ago.


----------



## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

Mallard... What's it going to take to get you to fix that damn caps lock key of yours?

If you want to shoot birds at 80 yards, have at it I guess. I don't remember ever saying that everyone has to use decoys. And I never said that you can't pass shoot. I was talking about: 1. People that kill more birds than they can handle. And 2. People that willingly take poor shots in whatever situation. Poor shots can be taken over decoys, and I would throw up a flag if I saw that too.

I remember bringing this story more than a few times on this site. When I sat through gun saftey training in 6th grade, one of the main ideas they spent time drilling into our heads was, "Do not shoot unless you know you can kill what you are shooting at." There is obviously room for human error in this, but what they meant was; have the proper firearm for the situation, and make sure the target is in range. This part of hunting shouldn't be a stage thing. It should be one of the bottom bricks of the house.

Go into the coyote forum and see what those guys talk about. There are guys in there that know they themselves, and their gun can make a deadly shot at 300 yards. And there are guys that understand that even though their gun can do it, they are not confident in their own ability at that distance, so they pass. I guess all the words I have said in this thread can be summed up in this one statement. Shoot to kill, and only when your birds are in range, no matter what tactic you use.


----------

