# Support our troops?



## Militant_Tiger

*How much do you support our troops?*​
100%420.00%24/7/365 Hooah!630.00%I completely support our troops.210.00%I actually partake in an activity which physically aids the troops.630.00%I do not support our troops.210.00%


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## Militant_Tiger

Do you support our troops?


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## racer66

Participated in Operation A/C.


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## Bobm

*Heres an article about how this country supports its troops *:eyeroll: 
Second Lt. Ilario Pantano was making a six-figure income as an energy trader with Goldman Sachs in New York when the World Trade Center was attacked. Pantano had friends who worked in the twin towers and friends among the firefighters who perished trying to save them.

This Marine veteran, who had already served his country in the first Gulf War, set aside his career (which also included work in film and television), kissed his wife and two children goodbye, and headed to Quantico, Va., for officer training school.

A Marine Corps colleague asked, "How many guys do you know (who) would drop 100 grand a year to go sleep in fighting holes in the nasty mud and dust for -- what -- 25 grand a year?"

There are a few -- and the rest of us owe them more than we can possibly express -- which is why it is shocking to learn that Pantano may now be facing murder charges.

In April 2004, American and Iraqi troops were under constant terrorist attack in the Sunni Triangle. Hundreds were being killed and wounded. Weapons of choice for the insurgents included roadside bombs, booby-trapped vehicles and animals, combatants disguised as women and suicide attackers feigning surrender before blowing themselves up.

The Washington Times reports that on April 15, 2004, "commanders dispatched Lt. Pantano's men to a house believed to hold insurgents and weapons. The Marines found bomb-making equipment and were removing it when two Iraqis tried to speed away in a sport utility vehicle, according to Lt. Pantano's account. The Marines stopped the SUV by shooting out the tires, apprehended the two (Iraqis) and placed them in flexible handcuffs. After setting up a security perimeter, Lt. Pantano took off the cuffs and had the two search the vehicle as he supervised." (Presumably so that any booby traps would not kill U.S. Marines.)

After a few minutes, the two suspected insurgents stopped searching and began to move quickly toward Lt. Pantano. Pantano's lawyer explained that "they started talking in Arabic and turned toward him as if they were going to rush him." Pantano shouted at them in Arabic to stop. They did not. He shot and killed both of them. :beer: He then placed a sign on the SUV repeating the slogan of Marine Gen. James N. Mattis, "No better friend; No worse Enemy."

Investigation later revealed that the vehicle held no explosives or weapons. By this time, Pantano had participated in the battle of Fallujah. A superior officer evaluated him as an "accomplished infantry leader. His actions during the fighting in Fallujah and Al Zaidon highlighted a solid understanding of tactics and an ability to anticipate the enemy. Leads from the front always and balances his aggressive style with true concern for the welfare of his Marines. Exceptional communication skills for a 2nd Lt. Organized, aggressive, focused and driven. Ready for increased responsibility. Retain, promote, and assign to challenging assignments."

Except that he now waits in Camp Lejeune, N.C., while the Marine Corps considers whether to indict him for murder in the case of those Iraqi SUV drivers -- charges that could carry a sentence of death. He has also been advised that he may face charges of "desecration" for placing the sign on the SUV. A Marine Corps spokesman estimated that a decision on whether Pantano faces a general court martial will be forthcoming in late March or early April. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Obviously, the United States cannot turn a blind eye to war crimes. If a soldier lines up civilians in front of a pit, My Lai style, and massacres them, he would richly deserve (and every self-respecting American would demand) a court martial. But good Lord, by what possible standard can this be called murder?  

Pantano was in the middle of a war zone, not a vacation in the Riviera. He had been dodging ambushes and booby traps for weeks. He'd seen his comrades killed and maimed. Perhaps he acted too hastily in shooting those Iraqis. But a murder charge? Has the Marine Corps gone P.C.?

Pantano's parents have created a Web site for those who would like to help their son and others like him. "DefendtheDefenders.org stands behind the man who puts his life on the line again and again, who makes life or death decisions in the blazing heat, exhaustion, fear and confusion of war while conducting combat operations ... (and later) becomes the subject ... of formal charges."


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## huntin1

100%, 24/7/365. both moral and financial support.

Want to make a difference:

http://americansnipers.org/

http://www.troopsupportusa.com/

this one has a whole bunch of links, storys, and letters from the guys over there,

http://www.defendamerica.mil/support_troops.html

Don't just say you support them, Do It!!!

:beer: :beer:

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

> Don't just say you support them, Do It!!!


Precisely why I posted this thread. Around here more than half the cars have a little magnetic ribbon saying something like "Support our troops" when in reality very few of them do anything to actually help them out.


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## Plainsman

So, MT what are you doing? Please don't consider posting this real help, that is symbolism over substance. Just like the support our troops ribbons. Simply feel good liberal doesn't cut it.


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## Militant_Tiger

Plainsman said:


> So, MT what are you doing? Please don't consider posting this real help, that is symbolism over substance. Just like the support our troops ribbons. Simply feel good liberal doesn't cut it.


Who said that this was meant to help anything? I'm just trying to expose these false patriots. Way to draw from that article you just read though.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> Who said that this was meant to help anything? I'm just trying to expose these false patriots. Way to draw from that article you just read though.


you so full of "it" your eyes are brown.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

pointer99 said:


> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Who said that this was meant to help anything? I'm just trying to expose these false patriots. Way to draw from that article you just read though.
> 
> 
> 
> you so full of "it" your eyes are brown.
> 
> pointer
Click to expand...

More talking points. Care to explain yourself instead of just spitting out something that sounds good?


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## pointer99

you exposing false patroits would be like benidict arnold carrying the flag in the fourth of july parade........most of those boys fighting over ther believe in what they are doing and are damn gung ho about it. however i'm sure there are a few john kerrys who just are collecting a paycheck.

hell nobody wants to see an american soldier in harms way you nitwit. if you think *****ing and bemoanin u.s. policy is helping the troops then you are full of ****. it goes to morale. same thing happened in nam and yes: john kerry is lower than whale **** for coming back over here protesting meeting with the communist while his comrades were dieing on the battlefield cause he got a damn splinter in his finger. whale **** lies on the bottom of the ocean so it's pretty damn low.

the democraps in congress were real vocal in their opposition to the war before the election but after the got their ***** kicked.......been kinda quiet don't you think?

yup......i support the troops.....do it through our church , but i am gonna look into some of huntin1 links and see if there is anything else i can do.

the only thing you have exposed is yourself as an idiot. but hell.... most of us knew that anyway. i say to you mt if you were a soldier returning fron iraq and view some of the post that you have put on this board how would you feel.......nevermind.... don't answer that cause there is only so much of a liberal dose of bull**** that i can take in one day.

a man who posts a bullshick poll like you did and then say you are exposing false patroits after all of the anti war sentiment you have posted here doesn't have a pecker.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

> you exposing false patroits would be like benidict arnold carrying the flag in the fourth of july parade........most of those boys fighting over ther believe in what they are doing and are damn gung ho about it. however i'm sure there are a few john kerrys who just are collecting a paycheck.


I see why you are mad, you think that I am claiming to be the turbo patriot and pointing out that our soldiers are only in it for the cash. You are way off base on this. I do not think myself a turbo patriot in any way shape or form and I readily admit that I do not do anything to physically support our troops. I am simply pointing out that the lions share of people with the support our troops ribbons do nothing to actually support our troops.



> the democraps in congress were real vocal in their opposition to the war before the election but after the got their a$$es kicked.......been kinda quiet don't you think?


It isint too easy to speak when anything no matter how radical will be passed without chance as long as it is conservative.



> i say to you mt if you were a soldier returning fron iraq and view some of the post that you have put on this board how would you feel.......nevermind.... don't answer that cause there is only so much of a liberal dose of b#llsh*t that i can take in one day.


I like how you completely misinterpret my statements, and then ride me for it. I now understand why you rely on those talking points so heavily.


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## Gohon

Militant_Tiger said:


> I am simply pointing out that the lions share of people with the support our troops ribbons do nothing to actually support our troops.
> 
> 
> 
> Horse crap ................ Just seeing those ribbons on vehicles is a moral booster for the troops. That's far better than being spat on when returning from Nam as so many were. When I see those ribbons at least I know the occupant of the vehicle is more than likely keeping abreast of the events of what is going on and not swallowing the garbage they were once spoon fed by the big three networks. These young people fighting today know about those ribbons as well as the receptions given for returning troops and that's all they ask for. Am I qualified to say this, you damn rights ........ 26 year USN retired Warrant Officer, two tours Nam, 16 campaign ribbons and if you don't know what a campaign ribbon is, try that search engine you tell everyone to use. You're not pointing out anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## huntin1

Gohon, k: :jammin: :biggrin:

And a very big *THANK YOU!!!* for your service sir!

:beer: :beer: :beer:

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

> Horse crap ................ Just seeing those ribbons on vehicles is a moral booster for the troops. That's far better than being spat on when returning from Nam as so many were.


So its OK to advertise that you support the troops without actually doing anything? Does this mean that I can put an "I support the NRA" sticker on my car and not actually give them a dime? Thanks to these people "Support our troops" is just a catch phrase which lacks meaning now.


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## huntin1

Militant_Tiger said:


> Thanks to these people "Support our troops" is just a catch phrase which lacks meaning now.
> 
> I readily admit that I do not do anything to physically support our troops. I am simply pointing out that the lions share of people with the support our troops ribbons do nothing to actually support our troops.


And thanks to you too, M_T, for nothing.

I don't know how things are in your area, but where I am from the ribbons are sold by groups like the Red Cross, who, in case you ain't aware, provide direct support to the troops in theater, as well as the families here at home. And if you don't think that helping out the families is in turn helping out the troops, you are more ignorant than I originally believed you to be.

M_T, why don't you do something positive for a change? Go to one of the sites I posted and send them some money. It don't have to be much, every dollar helps.

I happen to prefer the americansniper site just because there have been military snipers at some of the courses I have attended and several of them are over there now. And, I happen to know the guy who started it, an LE sniper out of TX.

But any of them will do.

That's a challenge M_T, get off yer butt, stop spewing crap for awhile and do something for those guys. If nothing else, it will make you *feel* better.

huntin1


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## pointer99

that's right mt......

don't have to be much. remember the story of the widow in the bible who put the two coins in the collection?

besides, it'll give you something to do........you got too much time on your hands. after that you could go down to the end of the street and argue with a stop sign. i have some other ideas if you need em. hehehe.

btw did you take my advice over on the rabbit huntin board........i don't think it will hurt much......at least not when the swellin goes down.

pointer


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## pointer99

huntin1 said:


> Gohon, k: :jammin: :biggrin:
> 
> And a very big *THANK YOU!!!* for your service sir!
> 
> :beer: :beer: :beer:
> 
> huntin1


ditto :beer: :wink:

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

huntin1 said:


> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks to these people "Support our troops" is just a catch phrase which lacks meaning now.
> 
> I readily admit that I do not do anything to physically support our troops. I am simply pointing out that the lions share of people with the support our troops ribbons do nothing to actually support our troops.
> 
> 
> 
> And thanks to you too, M_T, for nothing.
> 
> I don't know how things are in your area, but where I am from the ribbons are sold by groups like the Red Cross, who, in case you ain't aware, provide direct support to the troops in theater, as well as the families here at home. And if you don't think that helping out the families is in turn helping out the troops, you are more ignorant than I originally believed you to be.
> 
> M_T, why don't you do something positive for a change? Go to one of the sites I posted and send them some money. It don't have to be much, every dollar helps.
> 
> I happen to prefer the americansniper site just because there have been military snipers at some of the courses I have attended and several of them are over there now. And, I happen to know the guy who started it, an LE sniper out of TX.
> 
> But any of them will do.
> 
> That's a challenge M_T, get off yer butt, stop spewing crap for awhile and do something for those guys. If nothing else, it will make you *feel* better.
> 
> huntin1
Click to expand...

Why would I fund a conflict that I don't believe in the justification of? How about you go help fund a pro-abortion group? Not willing? Me either.

http://www.pointshop.com/Mall/Catalog/P ... 05458.html

http://www.united-states-flag.com/sourtrcarma.html

I suppose that pointshop.com and united-states-flag.com gives their proceeds to the military as well? As well, I couldn't find anything relating to these little magnets anywhere on www.redcross.org. Man I swear you guys could talk yourselves into believing anything.


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## zogman

I gave up MT for Lent. Don't read a word anymore. Let alone respond.


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## pointer99

zogman said:


> I gave up MT for Lent. Don't read a word anymore. Let alone respond.


welll good for you....... it proves you are a heck of a lot smarter than the rest of us.

i only wish he could get a girlfriend to take up some of his time.

pointer


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> Why would I fund a conflict that I don't believe in the justification of? How about you go help fund a pro-abortion group? Not willing? Me either.
> 
> .


nobody said fund a conflict.......you said we were false patroits if we didn't support the troops.....so by your own definition if you don't support then you are a false patroit.

equating that to supporting abortion is lame mt . that reach could span the grand canyon.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

> nobody said fund a conflict.......you said we were false patroits if we didn't support the troops.....so by your own definition if you don't support then you are a false patroit.
> 
> equating that to supporting abortion is lame mt . that reach could span the grand canyon.


And you are still twisting what I said. I didn't say that they had to support the troops to be patriotic, or even that they had to be patriotic, just that those who falsely advertise that they support the troops when they in fact do not are false patriots.


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## pointer99

nobody is twisting what you say......and by God you ain't the standard bearer on what the support is. support could be shaking a soldiers hand who is about to depart or thanking one who has returned home.

no one has died and left you in charge......THANK GOD!!!!! just once why don't you thank someone like gohon for his miltary service? some type of support or any type would be nice.

noooooooooooooooo instead you decide to post up your anti war diatribe.
that equals no support mt. with all the bullshick you have posted it is quite hypocritical of you to question anyones patroitism.

you should really consider other hobbies or get a girlfriend. and oh if you do .......be sure and tell her (floyd) we all said hello.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

pointer99 said:


> nobody is twisting what you say......and by God you ain't the standard bearer on what the support is. support could be shaking a soldiers hand who is about to depart or thanking one who has returned home.
> 
> no one has died and left you in charge......THANK GOD!!!!! just once why don't you thank someone like gohon for his miltary service? some type of support or any type would be nice.
> 
> noooooooooooooooo instead you decide to post up your anti war diatribe.
> that equals no support mt. with all the bullshick you have posted it is quite hypocritical of you to question anyones patroitism.
> 
> you should really consider other hobbies or get a girlfriend. and oh if you do .......be sure and tell her (floyd) we all said hello.
> 
> pointer


So shaking someones hand is support? You are saying that moral support is good enough? Can I put a magnet on my car saying "I support my church" because I shook my preists hand? Really you are grasping for straws. Even if this was good enough to be support, I know that all those people don't go out and shake soldiers hands, not only because there are very few in uniform in this area, but also because there is no surge of people at the airports as they would have you think from the superbowl commericals.



> noooooooooooooooo instead you decide to post up your anti war diatribe. that equals no support mt. with all the bullshick you have posted it is quite hypocritical of you to question anyones patroitism.


Bull**** to you and your party sure, realize that all of what you and yours post is bull**** to me and mine. I never stated that I think I am a big patriot, only that people shouldn't be able to lie that they are.


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## huntin1

> I couldn't find anything relating to these little magnets anywhere on www.redcross.org. Man I swear you guys could talk yourselves into believing anything.


Well M_T, just because you can't find it on the internet doesn't mean that it does not exist. The proceeds for those ribbons go to many orgs. The ones that I referred to were in a local grocery store, the sign under them said "proceeds go to the American Red Cross", I know the local director, send me your address and I'll have her contact you, another store's sign said. "proceeds go to the 141st support group". (The 141 is a local Nat. Guard unit that just returned after beig there for a year.) If I have time I'll take a picture for you. Then again, you would just acuse me of altering the pic.

I gotta try to do what Zogman's doing. :roll:

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

huntin1 said:


> I couldn't find anything relating to these little magnets anywhere on www.redcross.org. Man I swear you guys could talk yourselves into believing anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Well M_T, just because you can't find it on the internet doesn't mean that it does not exist. The proceeds for those ribbons go to many orgs. The ones that I referred to were in a local grocery store, the sign under them said "proceeds go to the American Red Cross", I know the local director, send me your address and I'll have her contact you, another store's sign said. "proceeds go to the 141st support group". (The 141 is a local Nat. Guard unit that just returned after beig there for a year.) If I have time I'll take a picture for you. Then again, you would just acuse me of altering the pic.
> 
> I gotta try to do what Zogman's doing. :roll:
> 
> huntin1
Click to expand...

I'm not posting to argue, just to get my point across. Whether you guys read my posts or not doesn't matter to me, I was never trying to change your minds. The lurkers and those who post every once in a while are the ones that I want to read, and they will continue to. You are just making my life that much easier.


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## The Norseman

I know I promised I would never write here again but,
Militant_Tiger, you really ****** me off this time.

*Militant_Tiger, you need to just shut up and escort yourself off this site forever.*By the way I do ignore all your posts and for quite some time.

I am one of those soldiers that you are talking about. I was in Bosnia and Kosovo, I will tell you all this, the American supporter's on this site, even the smallest thing was appreciated, and just knowing you were there for me, even if you disagree on the war on terrorism

To everyone else on this Site, I appreciate everything and you all have very big hearts (very emotional right now with tears in my eyes).

Also Hunting1, I apologize for what I said earlier in that other post.


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## The Norseman

and ticked is what I did not use


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## The Norseman

Thanks for the auto edit


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## Plainsman

The Norseman

I apologized for chewing you our earlier too. It is painfully obvious that I didn't understand what you were saying. With your last post I think I know you a little better. I can find no words to express how appreciative I am of soldiers like yourself and all you have done for us. God Bless.


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## Militant_Tiger

> I am one of those soldiers that you are talking about. I was in Bosnia and Kosovo, I will tell you all this, the American supporter's on this site, even the smallest thing was appreciated, and just knowing you were there for me, even if you disagree on the war on terrorism


Man you guys just refuse to get this don't you? It's a slap in the face to have someone tell you that they support the troops when they in fact do not. If a magnet that lies about a persons activities makes you feel better, so be it.


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## huntin1

The Norseman said:


> Also Hunting1, I apologize for what I said earlier in that other post.


No problem, I also apologize, I've read some of your posts since then and I think that if we were to meet in person we would be buying aech other a beer. Just a little misunderstanding, very easy to do on the net.

And *Thank You* for sacrificing part of your life in the service of this great country.

:beer:

huntin1


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## pointer99

The Norseman said:


> To everyone else on this Site, I appreciate everything and you all have very big hearts (very emotional right now with tears in my eyes).


no norseman........

we appreciate guys like you. too many people take too much for granted in this country and i too would be guilty as charged.

i hope you will accept my heart felt appreciation for your service.

thanks and God bless :beer:

pointer


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## Gohon

The Norseman said:


> even the smallest thing was appreciated, and just knowing you were there for me,


That's the part that people like MT don't or refuse to understand. A soldier already knows why he/she is there and what they have to do. They really ask for nothing else except as you said "just knowing you were there". When a person in uniform sees one of those stickers on a vehicle they know someone at least thought about them and that is form of support. Personally I think MT's thinking everyone with those magnetic stickers are liars is a reflection of himself. I suppose when I run up the flag on the 4th of July I'm just fooling myself that I support this country ...........What a sad world this little guy has build around himself. Glad I don't live there.


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## indsport

I read the usual drivel posted by both sides on this topic and everyone on this site missed MT's point and MT missed the point of all the other posts. First, there are quite a few places in the US where putting a magnetic ribbon on your vehicle is merely symbolism, does not reflect actual support for the troops, and is sold commercially rather than by the red cross (not true in North Dakota that I am aware of). Second, the vast majority of both conservatives and liberals support our troops, but whether you support the current Iraq war is another question entirely with the polls saying it is about a 50:50 split in the country. They are two different questions. 
As to me, I was in the service before, during and after Nixon resigned. I always support our troops since, like my days in the military, you do what you are ordered to do and do not have a choice in the matter but I have always have opposed the iraq war since the beginning. I also oppose the current effort to spread "democracy". Our country should instead be spreading the message and providing help towards self determination. There is a no more likely way to generate hatred and distaste of the US across the world than by forcing our belief system, our political system or any other system, no matter how noble, on a population who may not want it.


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## Plainsman

I certainly don't want to provide help for self determination, because many of them are determined to exterminate us. I have another suggestion. If they don't like us pull all foreign aid. The more we give the more they hate us.

By the way, have you noticed how much more Bush asked for the tsunami victims. The Red Cross said they couldn't handle any more donations right now. MT said Bush was an evil tight wad. Now I think we are getting carried away in a rush to prove who is the kindest. It looks like overkill to me now.

Please excuse the misspelling and typos, I just got out of the dental chair. Sitting at home with ice on my face.


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## Gohon

indsport said:


> I also oppose the current effort to spread "democracy". Our country should instead be spreading the message and providing help towards self determination. There is a no more likely way to generate hatred and distaste of the US across the world than by forcing our belief system, our political system or any other system, no matter how noble, on a population who may not want it.


A lot of people are of this mind set in that they believe we are forcing our beliefs on Iraq. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Democracy simply means the people have the ability to decide for themselves and not one person as a dictator. In the end the government that comes out of Iraq will be very foreign to our own style of government. But the people of Iraq will decide this and that is Democracy. Turkey is a good example as they are nothing like our government but certainly a Democracy. The hatred you are seeing towards the USA is from those that don't want Democracy but instead a suppressed form of government that they can control. The more democracy spreads around the world the better the world becomes.


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## indsport

To respond to "The hatred you are seeing towards the USA is from those that don't want Democracy but instead a suppressed form of government that they can control.";

In my travels overseas since the Iraq invasion, a majority of the people I have met in the streets who are opposed or even more strongly "hate" the United States are members of countries with popularly elected officials and proudly support their current form of government and are not opposed to democracy. It is not just the minority population. The same majority view the current United States foreign policy as a demand for US style democracy/republic to be the only way. I am not saying that this is what is true about current US policy and how the administration thinks they are presenting it, and foreign perception may be in error, but that is how it is being perceived in the rest of the world. It is not what you or I think, but how we are viewed in the rest of the world with regard to Bush's call to spread democracy and liberty.


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## jdpete75

*I read the usual drivel posted by both sides *

OMG aint that the truth

I say you are false patriots if you:

1: Have never been, yet you still make up plethora of excuses one after another) trying to justify this fight.

or

2: You are under 32, talking smack on this board, and havent seen a recruiter yet.

if you fit in one of those 2 categories you are a poser and a chickenhawk[/b]


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## Plainsman

> I read the usual drivel posted by both sides on this topic and everyone on this site missed MT's point


Oh, we got it all right. We just think it isn't a point. That doesn't mean we didn't get it.



> First, there are quite a few places in the US where putting a magnetic ribbon on your vehicle is merely symbolism, does not reflect actual support for the troops, and is sold commercially rather than by the red cross (not true in North Dakota that I am aware of).


Yes, yes, we do get it indsport. Your beating MT's dead horse.


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## Militant_Tiger

Plainsman said:


> I read the usual drivel posted by both sides on this topic and everyone on this site missed MT's point
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, we got it all right. We just think it isn't a point. That doesn't mean we didn't get it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, there are quite a few places in the US where putting a magnetic ribbon on your vehicle is merely symbolism, does not reflect actual support for the troops, and is sold commercially rather than by the red cross (not true in North Dakota that I am aware of).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, yes, we do get it indsport. Your beating MT's dead horse.
Click to expand...

No plainsman, you don't "get it". If you "got it" you would recognize that support is not thinking about someone, or clapping at someone. No one would appreciate you putting a bumper sticker on your saying you support the NRA because you clapped at a member, nor would they if you had an "I support my church" bumper sticker because you thought about church. You may realize what I'm trying to say, but you most certainly don't understand it.


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## farmerj

Having been on the bus bringing troops home, it is an incredible feeling to see the crowds welcoming and cheering as we come home.

To see the "magnets" that was on everyones vehicles was incredible.

They HAVE done something. They took the time to pay $2-5 for a magnet. Took the 10 seconds to walk to their car and put that sticker on there car. Is it commercialism? some of it is. Does it matter? Not to me. Does it show support. In ever sense of the word, yes.

Tell me they didn't have the forethought to do this. It is a conscious effort on that persons part. It isn't much, but it is something.

Now to see this thread is a smack in the face as much as someone spitting on us as we come home.

If you can't see that, then you need to sign the line and serve your country. I don't care if it in is the military, the peace corp or some other form of volunteer service.

Serving in the military or any other means isn't saying that you support the current political controllers, be it Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon or Truman. It means you support the country, the consitution and the decisions that are made on its behalf. You would be willing to lay down your life to ensure that you family, friends and future generations have the means and freedom to enjoy those freedoms you GIVE UP to ensure they can express theirs.


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## indsport

Yes, I did serve my country in the military. but to point out two examples of why putting a vellow magnetic ribbon on a vehicle:
When back in new york area for the holidays, I saw a vehicle with 6 magnetic yellow ribbons. I asked if they supported the troops and they said they put them on their vehicle for a fashion statement. From a Quaker I know from California, he had a yellow ribbon, a love it or leave it bumper sticker and asked him why they were on his vehicle. he said he used it for camoflage when he went to a red state. So I agree, just this once, with MT. There are more than one vehicle with a yellow support our troops ribbon out there who do not support the troops.


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## farmerj

indsport,
Thanks for your service.

But the point really is mute.

It isn't *WHY* they have it on their vehicle. Just the fact *THEY ARE THERE*.

To the troops coming home, they do not turn it into a political discussion of whether or not the person is truely a supporter or not. Just seeing it is a heart-warming feeling that says someone had the forethought to put it there and is saying thanks for your service.

I couldn't care less that a quacker used it for camoflauge. It its own way they are feeling small enough that they have to display it for some reason.

As to a fashion statement...Pretty poweful statement that you have to "show support" to be "in-fashion."


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## Militant_Tiger

> Now to see this thread is a smack in the face as much as someone spitting on us as we come home.


So even though most of them don't really give a damn about you and your safety, its still better than nothing? If I was in your place I would consider that an insult.



> It isn't WHY they have it on their vehicle. Just the fact THEY ARE THERE.


You must be kidding. So you are basically saying that it would be OK for me to stick a "I support the NRA" sticker on my car even though I don't give them a dime? Where is the logic in that?



> To the troops coming home, they do not turn it into a political discussion of whether or not the person is truely a supporter or not. Just seeing it is a heart-warming feeling that says someone had the forethought to put it there and is saying thanks for your service.


So you would rather be falsley lulled into thinking that there is support than seeing fewer stickers of people who actually do something to support the troops?


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## Plainsman

There are always going to be a hypocrite or two, but the vast majority of people put these stickers on because they truly support the troops. To insinuate otherwise is just silly. Isn't it a jump without evidence to state that even though half the people in your area have yellow ribbons that most are doing nothing. How do you know they are doing nothing. If I don't put a ribbon on my vehicle does that mean I am doing something or doing nothing. Anyway it's sure lucky we have geniuses on here to tell those poor dumb vets how to feel.

We get it we just don't except the level of hypocrisy some want to believe. Are some of you not sure that you simply want to think there is more anti war sentiment than there really is? What is the problem is there to much good news to keep some happy? Good news like more countries in the mid east want to vote now that they see the freedom Iraq has.


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## mr.trooper

Im reluctant to post ANYTHING in the politics forum these days, but i have to say this.

i support our troops 101% no matter how un popular the war is, or whether or not i even agree witht he war. they deserve our respect no mater what.


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## Militant_Tiger

> There are always going to be a hypocrite or two, but the vast majority of people put these stickers on because they truly support the troops. To insinuate otherwise is just silly. Isn't it a jump without evidence to state that even though half the people in your area have yellow ribbons that most are doing nothing. How do you know they are doing nothing. If I don't put a ribbon on my vehicle does that mean I am doing something or doing nothing. Anyway it's sure lucky we have geniuses on here to tell those poor dumb vets how to feel.


You seem to be quite interested in this Plainsman, why don't you check up on just how many people contributed money to the military in Michigan? Please, prove me wrong.



> We get it we just don't except the level of hypocrisy some want to believe. Are some of you not sure that you simply want to think there is more anti war sentiment than there really is? What is the problem is there to much good news to keep some happy? Good news like more countries in the mid east want to vote now that they see the freedom Iraq has.


Yes Plainsman, I am just so pleased when I hear of another explosion somewhere in the mid east. Anything to foil these darned conservatives, even though their office is already secured. I will be quite surprised however when Iran decides that democracy is great and greats us as ambassadors of good will and throw down their weapons in lieu of flowers. Wasn't that supposed to happen in Iraq too?


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## Gohon

indsport said:


> To respond to "The hatred you are seeing towards the USA is from those that don't want Democracy but instead a suppressed form of government that they can control.";
> 
> In my travels overseas since the Iraq invasion, a majority of the people I have met in the streets who are opposed or even more strongly "hate" the United States are members of countries with popularly elected officials and proudly support their current form of government and are not opposed to democracy.


Why beat around the bush ....... saying the word France or Germany won't hurt you. That is a couple of the countries you are talking about aren't you. You really sure they aren't opposed to Democracy in the middle east or is it democracy in the middle east causes a loss of influence in the middle east and around the world and the US is seen as the cause of that.

Isn't it odd that the middle east countries that are spilling their blood at this moment for their fight for freedom don't share the views of these so called friends of ours. Just today the people of Lebanon forced out the puppet government installed by Syria and are now demanding a new government and for Syria to get out. For the first time in decades there is a chance for a Palestinian solution.

It is amazing to me the people that are completely blind to the historical events that are taking place right before their very eyes. Personally I'm thrilled to have lived to see this. Can you name anything in the last 200 years that had the potential to change the course of the world more than what is going on right now?


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## indsport

last post on the subject: I am pleased to see the American public's response to our troops as opposed to what I saw and experienced during Vietnam. However, to answer a comment, the people that I talked to overseas recently included Brits, Germans, French, Danish, Netherlands, Sweden, Spain, Turkey and Norway. Not one of them said they disliked americans in general and many of them had relatives here in the states, but were opposed to the war and the Bush administration. The other thing that surprised me was not that the opposition existed, but that it came from multiple countries, not just Germany and France.

nuf said.


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## pointer99

indsport said:


> nuf said.


well not quite......

we percieved sadam as threat because of the wmds......HE HAD EM AND WE KNOW HE DID SO MUCH LIKE HIS AIR FORCE IN THE FIRST GULF WAR I THINK IRAN AND SYRIA PICKED UP SOME FREE MILITARY HARDWARE.

we defended germany from communist take over for 50 years and boot the germans outa france during two world wars. yet they will not lift a finger to help the u.s. we didn't need em anyway.......just shows that the nato alliance ain't much unless a country in europe is gettin invaded.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

pointer99 said:


> indsport said:
> 
> 
> 
> nuf said.
> 
> 
> 
> well not quite......
> 
> we percieved sadam as threat because of the wmds......HE HAD EM AND WE KNOW HE DID SO MUCH LIKE HIS AIR FORCE IN THE FIRST GULF WAR I THINK IRAN AND SYRIA PICKED UP SOME FREE MILITARY HARDWARE.
> 
> we defended germany from communist take over for 50 years and boot the germans outa france during two world wars. yet they will not lift a finger to help the u.s. we didn't need em anyway.......just shows that the nato alliance ain't much unless a country in europe is gettin invaded.
> 
> pointer
Click to expand...

Pointer how is it that you refuse get this. Simply because two incidents are somewhat similar (in that they are war) does not mean that they have the same justification, and it does not mean that both should be delt with in the same fashion. World War Two was a war against a known and absolutely dangerous foe, who had every intention of destroying America and her allies. The war on Iraq was a war based on shakey evidence of weapons which never existed, and a leader with no intent of conquering America and the Allies. If you think that these incidents are the same, I am mind boggled.



> It is amazing to me the people that are completely blind to the historical events that are taking place right before their very eyes. Personally I'm thrilled to have lived to see this. Can you name anything in the last 200 years that had the potential to change the course of the world more than what is going on right now?


I find it quite amazing too, because I wonder how the history channel will be covering it in 20 years, I doubt it will be looked upon favorably by anyone.



> The other thing that surprised me was not that the opposition existed, but that it came from multiple countries, not just Germany and France.


I can too vouch for this, I have family in Europe and the sentiment over there is one against Bush. I assure you that nearly all of said continent does not hate this administration because they do too many good things.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> Pointer how is it that you refuse get this. Simply because two incidents are somewhat similar (in that they are war) does not mean that they have the same justification, and it does not mean that both should be delt with in the same fashion. World War Two was a war against a known and absolutely dangerous foe, who had every intention of destroying America and her allies. The war on Iraq was a war based on shakey evidence of weapons which never existed, and a leader with no intent of conquering America and the Allies. If you think that these incidents are the same, I am mind boggled.


hhehehehehehehehehehehe......mt once again your mind is boggled.....so what's new. you're just ****** off cause the bush doctrine is working. demoracy seems to want to be spreading in the region.

yup, world war two was against a dangerous foe.......but while your mind was boggled you seem to forget sadam was dangerous too...... he tried to build a nuclear weapon to use against israel. then he invaded iran. later he invaded kuwait and then he gassed his own countrymen.

if someone had stepped up to the plate in 39 and threw that paper hangin sob outta poland there might not have been world war 2. ahhhhhhhhhh history will repeat itself if left unchecked.

i guess we will see if history looks favorable on the u.s. in twenty years during this time period. if it does......if it does i'll check back in on this board and say " ha!! mt told ya so". i know you'll still be here. hehe.

pointer


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> I can too vouch for this, I have family in Europe and the sentiment over there is one against Bush. I assure you that nearly all of said continent does not hate this administration because they do too many good things.


who cares.

pointer


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## tail chaser

MT,

As much as I enjoy (don't agree) your debate you were wrong in your original post with this topic. Keep in mind I have been considered a lefty wacko lib by some on this site! If someone puts a magnet on his or her car that says "support our troops", it can mean many things. Its ironic most of the people on this site are considered supporting members are you? Remember support can come in many ways and I'm sure you have supported many causes without money our your time, think before you post and your message will be a little more clear.

TC


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## Militant_Tiger

pointer99 said:


> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I can too vouch for this, I have family in Europe and the sentiment over there is one against Bush. I assure you that nearly all of said continent does not hate this administration because they do too many good things.
> 
> 
> 
> who cares.
> 
> pointer
Click to expand...

When an entire continent disagrees with your decisions, it would be wise to listen.



> Its ironic most of the people on this site are considered supporting members are you? Remember support can come in many ways and I'm sure you have supported many causes without money our your time, think before you post and your message will be a little more clear.


So I should be considered a supporting member because I come here and enjoy the site? Hell I'll even applaud Chris for his work on here. Does this mean I get to be known a supporting member now? Nope, I won't be. The same holds true for these stickers.


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## mr.trooper

It must be hard getting through life with such a bitter attitude.


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## tail chaser

Thats exactly what I was talking about. Do you MT feel as if you are a supporting member of this site? I don't care if have paid anything or not I want your opinion I already have mine. I want to know if you feel you are a supporting member of this site weather it is financially or just morall support. Do you think your contributing to this site is supprting it? A yes or no is all I am asking for? You might be suprised at waht my opinion really is.

TC


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## Militant_Tiger

tail chaser said:


> Thats exactly what I was talking about. Do you MT feel as if you are a supporting member of this site? I don't care if have paid anything or not I want your opinion I already have mine. I want to know if you feel you are a supporting member of this site weather it is financially or just morall support. Do you think your contributing to this site is supprting it? A yes or no is all I am asking for? You might be suprised at waht my opinion really is.
> 
> TC


Nope, I don't think that I should be considered a supporting member because I don't support the site financially. I add to the site, but I do not support it. Lets hear your shocking opinion.


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## tail chaser

You are considered a guest but I think you do support the site. Conversation requires participation which you do and quite often. Without people who engage in this forum this site would not exist. So you have contributed or do support this format in which we discuss and learn different things, some more than others. Stick around I enjoy your spats now and then and sometimes agree with you, but then again I have agreed with Pointer 99 a time or two! :gag:

TC


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## Plainsman

Tail chaser

To be fair I must give credit as much as I get on some peoples cases. I think I have said or insinuated you're a lefty in the past, but I must complement you on your last posts. Nothing in it for you simply being helpful. You're a good guy.


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## the_duckinator

Support comes in many forms, giving money is only one of them. Just because you don't have a magnet doesn't mean you don't support our troops. I support our troops all the way, but not the reason they're there, or the administration that sent them there.


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## racer66

I have aunts, uncles, cousins in Scotland, Denmark, Norway, Canada, they are all for what we have done, because the majority of them are getting elderly and remember what it was to sacrifice.

I'll agree with TC on this one also, hats off to you. :beer:


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## Militant_Tiger

the_duckinator said:


> Support comes in many forms, giving money is only one of them. Just because you don't have a magnet doesn't mean you don't support our troops. I support our troops all the way, but not the reason they're there, or the administration that sent them there.


How exactly is it that support is something as simple as thinking about someone. You guys really want to go by a double standard here. I am not considered a supporting member of this site just because of my participation. I do not support the NRA because I believe in the cause. Somehow though, it is said that one supports the troops because of things such as that.



> I have aunts, uncles, cousins in Scotland, Denmark, Norway, Canada, they are all for what we have done, because the majority of them are getting elderly and remember what it was to sacrifice.


Yes, sacrafice. So I guess since all wars are the same in your mind, that is they are all justified it was really sacraficial of the Germans to start the second world war. Really, hats off to them. Get your head out of your butt.


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## tail chaser

Plainsman, don't beat yourself up maybe I just fooled you? :lol: I'm just not one to see polotics as black and white. To think ones political ideas should belong on a scale of left or right is about as stupid an idea as there is.

TC


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## Plainsman

TC

Well left and right are a quick way to define the general platform that any given person believes in. Not an exact thing for sure. I think that liberal and conservative works better, but lacks definition also. When it comes to environmental policies I'm what the political spectrum would call left. I'm not sure that is right, but it is generally accepted. There are some things I have little opinion on, some that I feel somewhat opinionated on, and some like the second amendment that I have very strong opinions on.

On a world basis far left is communism and far right is ??? I guess I'm not sure. I think that works well for political parties, but fails for 75% of individuals, because we have beliefs that fit both categories. Anyway, that is the way I look at it. I'm curious, how do does that fit your thinking. I sometimes use the term for lack of a better term.


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## tail chaser

I would agree in some ways. the problem with defining things as lib/cons or left/right is it takes away the need for people to think for themselves they just belong to a difined group based on how they fall because of a few issues. When it comes to taxes I'm in the left catagory, same with social security. Gun ownership and 2nd amendment stuff I'm on the right way right! so far infact it becomes left, how you ask? I think everybody should be required to learn how to use a firearm in school. I know it would cut down on firearms deaths in the US, but forcing people to partake in things could be considered what?

The hunting issues we talk about on this site? I am not on the side of the conservative businessman! He would be the one saying let the open market decide the fate of hunting North Dakota, I don't want that!

I have a very political job and people get so mad with me because I don't respond to them right away because I have to think about things instead of jumping to a conclusion asap.

All polotics are local

TC


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## Militant_Tiger

> On a world basis far left is communism and far right is ??? I guess I'm not sure.


You know exactly what it is, fascism.


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## Plainsman

Not really, and I was to lazy to play on the internet. I was counting on someone telling me, but I would like an unbiased opinion. I certainly can't rely on your opinion, but I am open to anyone else. Your far to bitter and twist things.


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## farmerj

I really don't know why I am doing this....

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/muss ... scism.html

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~wldciv/world_c ... /marx.html

So you are saying that 2 political systems that failed in less than 100 years are better than a political system that has been in existence for 225+years.

And what does this have to do with a group of individuals that are so shallow that they have to hide their feelings behind a magnetic sticker showing support for soldiers either as "camoflauge" or "to make a fashion statement?"

It has taken the thread off track.
MT, you have answered your own question when you started this "poll".

I see you as being so shallow to show support for a person who is willing to give up their freedoms and personal views to do what is asked of them regardless of the conseqences.

It isn't about whether or not they support the democratic party or the republican party. They support America and are willing to lay their life on the line for her.

So what is wrong with a magnetic sticker on it to show support for that soldier.

The president will change in 4 years. and again 4 years latter and again 4 years latter.....

Your Military will be their to protect your rights from "threats, foreign or domestic" through it all.

At all times, under the control of the Civilian federal government.

I couldn't give a rat's potooty about if you think we should be in Iraq or not....

I do care if you support our troops for what they are.....
America's finest and bravest willing to give their life for their fellow Americans...

So YOU don't have to.


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## Longshot

MT,

Please put a NRA bumper sticker on your vehicle. I would love to see all vehicles have them. It keeps it in plain view as a reminder to all. It's too bad you can't understand other's viewpoints especially when it comes from those who have felt the support. :eyeroll: With that attitude logic will always escape you. :huh:


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## pointer99

tail chaser said:


> but then again I have agreed with Pointer 99 a time or two! :gag:
> 
> TC


yeah but it was a long time ago and i'm sure we have both forgotten about it  :lol: :lol: :lol:

turkey season starts here in about thirty days so come on down......try to make it by april first for our annual burn a liberal at the stake extravaganza. :wink:

pointer


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## racer66

I think MT just can't believe that someone would actually support the military because he himself, being a pimple faced 16 year old, can't imagine the thought of actually having to lay his life on the line. Oh the world has got an education awaiting you MT, and it will pull your head out of your butt. It has been amazing to watch what a child has done to this forum.


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## tail chaser

I'm not saying I agree with MT , but what has he done to the forum as you claim?

TC


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## pointer99

farmerj said:


> I do care if you support our troops for what they are.....
> America's finest and bravest willing to give their life for their fellow Americans...
> 
> So YOU don't have to.


i heard that


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## tail chaser

Turkey Hunting sounds fun but we have them also to bad tags are a lottery. Two blocks from my house Game and Fish came in and trapped 75 or so. Thats a long way to go to hunt something I can shoot in my backyard and as for the "Annual burn a liberal at the stake extravaganza" Heck thats every day up here!!! :lol:

TC


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## Militant_Tiger

> I think MT just can't believe that someone would actually support the military because he himself, being a pimple faced 16 year old, can't imagine the thought of actually having to lay his life on the line. Oh the world has got an education awaiting you MT, and it will pull your head out of your butt. It has been amazing to watch what a child has done to this forum.


Man you are ignorant. I can't believe that you are so blind that you are willing to support ANY conflict regardless of the reasons that it was started. I don't believe that I can ever get thru to you on this, but I hope that someone will understand with me that not all conflicts are equal. I don't believe that this war was worth losing even one American life.


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## racer66

MT, I see you made it home for milk and cookie break.


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## jdpete75

racer66 said:


> MT, I see you made it home for milk and cookie break.


Do YOU need the number to your local recruiter so you can get off yours? Time to stop being puzzies boys and girls, If you feel so strongly about this fight its time to put your life where your mouth is.


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## Militant_Tiger

jdpete75 said:


> racer66 said:
> 
> 
> 
> MT, I see you made it home for milk and cookie break.
> 
> 
> 
> Do YOU need the number to your local recruiter so you can get off yours? Time to stop being puzzies boys and girls, If you feel so strongly about this fight its time to put your life where your mouth is.
Click to expand...

I could barely understand that, and the parts that I could made no sense considering my position. If you are going to insult me at least make sense.

Edit:


> MT, I see you made it home for milk and cookie break.


Ah Yes! This must be proof that I am at least 30 right! Yes, either that or a snow day, whichever one seems more plausible to you.


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## Plainsman

jdpete75

There are people on this form that have already risked their life for our freedom. As to your intentions on your last post, keep in mind that some people are hard to help. Reminds me of an old cliché: no good deed goes unpunished. Hehe.


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## farmerj

jdpete75 said:


> racer66 said:
> 
> 
> 
> MT, I see you made it home for milk and cookie break.
> 
> 
> 
> Do YOU need the number to your local recruiter so you can get off yours? Time to stop being puzzies boys and girls, If you feel so strongly about this fight its time to put your life where your mouth is.
Click to expand...

You lost my point as well....

I couldn't care less if that individual, MT or anyone else for that matter cares one bit for the fight they are in over there.

What matters is that you care that everyone of them is there in your stead.

They are the US Military, controlled by a Civilian entity doing exactly what they are told to do, without question, without regret....

Because they care about this country.

The least we could do is show our support, no matter how slight or little. A magnetic sticker works for me. Even if they do it as a "camoflauge" or a fashion statement.

Personally, When I heard the excuse as a "Fashion Statement" I thought "Wow, now that really is a show of support"

Move over Joe "Boxer". Here comes that yellow ribbon.


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## jdpete75

Plainsman said:


> no good deed goes unpunished. .


Hey that my motto


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