# 6mm-223 (6mmX45)



## airforcehobit

I just picked a barrel(20inch 1/8) and a set of dies. I have yet to work up anything. i know its dangerous to say but have at it. I wanna hear your best and worst along with some loads and experences. I plan to make this my 300 and less coyote gun possibly a bit on the muzzle heavy side :wink: . I have a 22 inch r-15 that will be the donor and from what i read the increased bore dia. lets me throw 55-65 grain loads as fast as my 22 inch ar but with less barrel and I feel that the 6mm bullet is far better for coyotes (fur freindly) but only when kept at tame speeds. kinda like 7mm mag vs 300 mag. 7mm has the reputaion of lasering through without expanding when compared to the 300 with like rounds and FPS.

I am just learning so don't tear me up too bad.


----------



## specialpatrolgroup

Whats the twist rate?


----------



## airforcehobit

1/8 stainless bull


----------



## xdeano

well you'll be able to spin up to about a 108g bullet. Some 1-8 have been know to spin a 115g 6mm bullet. But that has a lot to do with velocity also. Course the higher the weight grain bullet the slower the velocity.

xdeano


----------



## airforcehobit

I thought about going heavy and subsonic with a 105 or 115


----------



## xdeano

I'd give some of the 85-90g bullets a look also.
xdeano


----------



## Savage260

> kinda like 7mm mag vs 300 mag. 7mm has the reputaion of lasering through without expanding when compared to the 300 with like rounds and FPS.


Really? I have never heard that.


----------



## airforcehobit

really 260? I mean its always been cooler talk i have Zero evendence to back it up. The way i look at it is if you open your hand in the chuck norris kung fu chop postion and jab it finger first into a bucket of water you are gonna get a splash but if you make a fist and do the same thing you will get a bigger splash. I am not knocking the 7mm guns they are great guns but over penetration/expanstion is my enemy cause i don't wanna sew them up. My first rifle was a 243 and i think that might be why i love it cause i have carried the hell out of it.

anyone else heard this rumor about the 7mm lasers (rum,mag,win mag,wthrby mag, ect.)


----------



## KurtR

nope never heard that. The .284 is smallaer than the .308 wont the bigger dia. bullet leave a bigger whole as they are both going to zip through a coyote at a way long ways. i supose maybe sectional density might make the .284 a little more apt to lazering through but only if bone is hit. I know my old slow .308 with the 168 amax will blow the hell out them alot more than any of the 7mm varietys if have shot with the 162 amax. i am not looking to save fur though just bring some death to yotes. Saw 6 this morning out looking while looking does over for some more meat. Now there is only 5.


----------



## airforcehobit

Before we go to far bullet design and placement trump caliber most of the time. But I am hoping that a longer front section/caliber will dump its energy inside.


----------



## KurtR

My remm 6mm never stayed in a yote with the 95grn sst blew the hell out of them. that was at about 3000 fps if i rember right. Cant help with the terminal ballistics of getting bullets to dump them all the energy as i just wanted them dead fur was not a concern. Maybe a vmax wont exit but i think if you hit a shoulder you might need alot of thread. Maybe some thing berger offers in the 6mm variety might help. What will that run for vellocitys?


----------



## airforcehobit

3000 give or take but 60 gr. Or less on the bullet I hear good things about 60 gr seirra hp I'd that does not work I wil go to a bonded or partition bullet


----------



## KurtR

I would be interested to see what the 68grn bergers would do out of that. Dont know what sierra smk's come in 6mm that would be another one that would intrest me in this application.


----------



## xdeano

I to agree with you Kurt, the 68 berger would be a nice little pill.

I did a little looking around for the last 5 min on 6mmbr.com and there are a lot of guys using h335 and having really good luck with those little buggers. Sounds like a neat little AR round. They make dies for them so it's just a FL resize and go. Looks fun. Keep us posted on the progress. I know you'll be to busy the next couple of weeks but after that let us know.

xdeano


----------



## airforcehobit

You don't think at Berger will tear them up. Granted it will be tame will bet just under 3000


----------



## xdeano

I was testing out a buddies 22-243 that was cooking an 80g Berger at ~3525fps and it didn't rip them up to much. I came out with a quarter size hole on one and about a fifty cent hole in the other. Both were shot at 150 to 175yds. It did a pretty decent job, but that was only two cases, it would definitely need more to do a complete judgement on them. But you never know tell you try.

Here are a few pics and a little background.

http://www.coyotehunter.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2111&start=60

xdeano


----------



## Savage260

Nope, never heard any thing about the 7 performing worse than the .30 cal with the same bullets at any velocity. Any thing from the 7 RUM, 7STW, 7WSM, 7 RM, ect. Pretty sure with the exact same bullet they will be hard to tell apart when you get down to terminal ballistics. Not trying to hijack though, so I will end here.


----------



## barebackjack

I think you went the wrong way. Should have gone .22-6mm. :wink:


----------



## airforcehobit

U might be right I hear they are nasty. The big reason I went tothis wildcat was because it fit the ar with no mods and it seems to be reloaded friendly and cheap


----------



## airforcehobit

Got my parts in today. pics and range report to come. I have some 55gr noslers to start with but i would like to push it up a bit. I wanna stay above 3000 and keep it fur friendly. I think that it will have an edge on the 243 inside of 300 because of the tame speeds. Might have to sneak a couple summer dogs just to see how it does. anyone have a favorite 6mm pelt round?


----------



## xdeano

I've shot a few with the 85's. They do a nice job.

I've shot a few with the 55g noslers at 4100fps out of a 243 and they do some nasty damage.

Match ammo does a decent job. I'd try some of the flat base Bergers, they might fit the bill pretty well.

The coyotes are still out there, you didn't kill them all yet. I heard them by my place.  oke:

xdeano


----------



## airforcehobit

i posted the pics and range repot in the rifle forum if any of you are intrested.


----------



## airforcehobit

Got some number fresh from the chrono.

55gr nosler Varmageden with 29 gr of H335/BR-4 came in under an inch at 100 and hummed along at 3465 FPS
60gr Seirra Hp with the same mix crossed at 3450 and just under one inch

( 2inch high at 100 will get around 5-6 inch low at 300) should have a point blank range around 300 yds

before this rifle was a 22 inch 223 and it never put up numbers like that with 60 gr rounds

Some old timers recommended the 60gr pill to me a long time ago (good on pelts and good energy transfer) so i figured i would run them looking good to me


----------



## airforcehobit

http://buckammo.com/Images/6x45_loaddata_5_1.pdf


----------



## xdeano

A lot of good info there for someone that eyeing up this cartridge. I think it will be a winner come fur season.
xdeano


----------



## Plainsman

I think Thompson Center had that round years ago in their contender.

I keep hearing about fast rounds lasering through. I also have never experienced that. I have been looking for "fur friendly" ammo/cartridges for years. There are two schools of thought. Fragile rounds that don't exit, and tough rounds like full metal that don't expand. All I know is the full metals touch a bone and the bone fragments are not "fur friendly". Then there are few rounds that don't exit. I even blew the heck our of fox with the little 22 Hornet.

Right now I am shooting 75 gr in my AR. I was loosing coyotes with good hits at 100 yards with 50 gr V-Max out of my 16 inch barrel. The velocity was 2950 to 3000. Now I am at 2826 fps average, but much higher energy at longer ranges. I have a barrel for a milder 6.5 (6.5 Creedmore) coming. I think the heavy tough bullets will be ok for coyote. All I have learned is this. If you want to kill the animal you have to do damage. Try to get away from some fur damage and your going to loose some coyotes. It's kind of like photography where you can have depth of field or fast shutter speed, but you can't have both at the same time.


----------



## airforcehobit

i totally agree Plainsman a trade is always in order I have had very good luck with my 243 in fact its my go to rig. but the trade is that for its monster speed it trades less then perfect hits for tons of time sewing. I am trading speed for pelt damage but i am gaining semi-auto fire powder in a package that does not weight to much. it is superior to the 223 (by a slim margin). the inherent accuracy of 6x45 was my hook. I had a R-15 VTR (22 inch) that shoot bad to say the lest I had to buy a barrel and did not want a total over haul so i went 6mm. I have a couple pet loads that are looking good and speed to boot. Guess i am just in love with my pet(we all been their). It feel too viable to be wrong i guess. I guess i think the ONLY down side to the 243 is that at those speeds 55s, 58s and 60s have the ability to unglue some fur. i could load down but thats no fun   

Thanks for your input really i do its a crazy big pile of round to choose from once you load your own


----------



## Plainsman

If I remember the Thompson Center round a few guys were taking deer with it. If I had one it would be tough for me to decide between light fast bullets and slow high ballistic coefficient. 
I see what your saying about firepower. I was loosing coyotes with the 223 and V-Max. Some drop like a rock and others run off. I have not shot a coyote with the 75 gr yet, but when I looked at the ballistic coefficient and run the ballistics it had near double the energy of a factory 22-250 at 600 yards. I don't plan on using the 223 that far on anything but targets, but it should be good at 300 yards. The Sierra Match wasn't opening for me, but on jack rabbits the 75 gr Hornady does appear to be opening. 
I have some steel targets I welded up myself. There is a big difference when I hit that target with the 55 gr softpoint, 50 gr V-Max, or 75 gr Hornady. So here's hoping it will do the job. good luck with yours. Don't forget some pics when you smack that first coyote with it, and don't forget to post them up for us. :thumb:


----------

