# AP Presidents approval poll



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

New lows for GWB....37% approval rating.

Considering 30% of that is his far right conservative base.....hardly anyone else things he is doing a good Job.that includes most of the 44% who consider themselves moderates and are the swing voters in any election.

These numbers are right out of this morning's paper.

But what else can we expect after a couple years of war,botching the Katrina rescue effort,having people in his administration under investagation and being indicted.And now screwing up a supreme court nomination that forced him to withdraw her name because people in his own party demanded her out.

Democrats don't even have to say anything.....GWB is doing it all by himself.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Pick the one you want to get the results you want... http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm Runs from 35% to 45%.

Even CNN has him at 45%, certainly not a right wing paper. Guess it depends on what paper you read in the morning and where you wish to stand.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

There is a backfire that has been building for the Democrats, the party is internally imploding, it's just not reported that highly, simply a matter of time. Be back Sunday.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Just for kicks and giggles, I'd really like to hear how GW screwed up the Katrina rescue.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Actually I'd be interested to hear how any of that was "Botched Up."

But then KenW does have a propensity for posting what he wants to say without regard to any basis in fact.

I wonder if KenW has any idea what Abraham Lincoln's popularity was about the time he was assinated ... and also if KenW realizes that good old Abe Lincoln kept America together without regard to his Un-Popularity at the time.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Wait until they figure out that GWB won't be running for reelection. That ought to confuse the hell out of them. :lol:


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Gohon ...

I liked what Rush said to President Bush in an interview before GWB's re-election ...

Rush says, "If you win, are you going to TRICK THEM AGAIN ... are you going to say what you intend to do ... then actually do it?"

GWB seemed to get a chuckle out of that.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

DecoyDummy said:


> I wonder if KenW has any idea what Abraham Lincoln's popularity was about the time he was assinated ... and also if KenW realizes that good old Abe Lincoln kept America together without regard to his Un-Popularity at the time.


I didn't think this thread was about Abe Lincoln? He isn't the President anymore.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Robert A. Langager ... my intention was ...

Just a comparison or reference to the fact that "popularity" doesn't, in the end, tell the full story regarding the beneficial nature of what is happening in the country...

Hopefully, some comparisons of that sort are OK ...

I certainy had the impression the thread was about "Presidential Popularity and the notion that the country was going to Hell in a Hand Basket."

or something of the sort


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

DecoyDummy..... :rollin: :rollin:

Of course you 2 are on the ultra far,far right.....What else can one expect. :eyeroll:


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Gohon Wrote:

Pick the one you want to get the results you want...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also understand some of these polls were were compiled with ... well, lets just say ... something of an unfavorable crowd considering there are now more Republicans than Democrates and also far more folks describe themselves as conservative as opposed to liberal ...


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Heres a question...

How are these polls conducted to ensure that the working class is included? I mean, the only people who can take these calls are the ones either home all day, or the ones that dont mind listening to a crap phone call after a hard day at work.

I think that part in and of itself would skew the results a little.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Decoydummy....how do you know Abe Lincoln wasn't a liberal?

The Republican Party moving severely to the right started with Barry Goldwater in the 60's.Not necessarily in the 1860's.

We have had some very progressive Republican presidents,including ..

Abe Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Thats two questions I've posed that are being ignored. Still trying to find the right fabricated data?


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

KEN W

What does anything you said in you last post have to do with the discussion in this thread ...???

I'd love to see you come up with any cohesive discussion about anything you bring up ... you say things that seems to have little to no basis in fact, then when asked about it, you pretend no one said anything to you or you say something having nothing to do with the discussion ...

Folks ... Am I the only one noticing this phenomenon??


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

DecoyDummy said:


> Actually I'd be interested to hear how any of that was "Botched Up."
> 
> But then KenW does have a propensity for posting what he wants to say without regard to any basis in fact.
> 
> I wonder if KenW has any idea what Abraham Lincoln's popularity was about the time he was assinated ... and also if KenW realizes that good old Abe Lincoln kept America together without regard to his Un-Popularity at the time.


Evidently you can't remember what YOU posted.....look at the above quote by YOU....I didn't bring up ABE LINCOLN....YOU did.I'm just responding to what YOU posted.

"you say something having nothing to do with the discussion."Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. :eyeroll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

KEN W said:


> But what else can we expect after a couple years of war,botching the Katrina rescue effort,having people in his administration under investagation and being indicted.And now screwing up a supreme court nomination that forced him to withdraw her name because people in his own party demanded her out.
> 
> Democrats don't even have to say anything.....GWB is doing it all by himself.


There is nothing in this statement that is not true.

So far the only thing we have gained from Iraq is over 2000 dead soldiers and more hatred of the US.

GWB was ultra slow in responding to the Katrina effort....in fact he stayed on vacation while hoodlums actually shot at rescue helicopters and poor people in the Superdome languished....I can still remember a frustrated mother saying....someone from the Fed. or State Gov. better get their *ss down here right now.Of course the Fed gov. was not completely at fault....but GWB appointed the inept FEMA director,and he is supposed to be in charge.

And HIS people are involved in the scandals like the CIA-Libby indictment.

His party had the commercials on the past year....UP OR DOWN VOTE...yet his far right base torpedoed Ruth Meirs,not the Democrats.Guess it's only UP OR DOWN when it suits you....talk about hypoctitical.....better not hear anymore of that.

The American people are holding GWB responsible as they should.Just like any other past president who may have gotten to much or to little credit......thus the low opinion polls.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Do you suppose GW is concerned about the oil company profits? Or is this just "supply and demand?" Quite frankly I'm ready for the next president whoever that may be! Eight years of GW is enough. Thank heaven for term limits! Never have I seen a president who is so out of tou ch with middle and low income America.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Gun Owner said:


> Just for kicks and giggles, I'd really like to hear how GW screwed up the Katrina rescue.





KenW said:


> GWB was ultra slow in responding to the Katrina effort....in fact he stayed on vacation while poor people in the Superdome languised....I can still remember a frustrated mother saying....someone from the Fed. or State Gov. better get their *ss down here right now.Of course the Fed gov. was nor completely at fault....but GWB appointed the inept FEMA director,and he is supposed to be in charge.


Updated: 1:44 p.m. ET Sept. 13, 2005

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and that the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks.

"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government," Bush said at joint White House news conference with the president of Iraq.

"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169227,00.html


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

You know it is kind of sad. a couple of weeks ago we had a major forest fire on our hands in the western US. The US Forest Service (Federal) mobilized a command/firefighter center within 24 hours. In less than 24 hours this temporary facility was feeding 7,000 firefighters 3 square meals a day plus snacks and beverages.

Homeland security missed the boat, FEMA missed the boat. I wouldn't blame Bush on everything, but somewhere someone messed up.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

live2hunt said:


> Homeland security missed the boat, FEMA missed the boat. I wouldn't blame Bush on everything, but somewhere someone messed up.


I hear you there. There is plenty-o-blame to go around. I just don't think that Bush is the "Teflon Don" so to speak.

RC


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Of course the only major thing here is the war in Iraq.It is starting to look like Vietnam.What people can't stand is this never-ending story of soldiers being killed every day with no end in sight.If this thing drags on through next year's elections with no forseeable end....I wouldn't want to be a Republican running for re-election.Republicans will be distancing themselves from Bush and Democrats will be hammering them non-stop.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

KEN: You and I have agreed on a great many things, but unfortunately I believe the Republicans will probably own the office another 4 years when GB is gone. The Democrats are just so disorganized politically. They all seem to be scattered on their issues and I couldn't imagine an election of Hillary Clinton (which I would never vote for either).

The R have found a niche in turning whatever they don't believe in to be of "liberal" thought. Gays and Lesbians are now liberal, PETA is a bunch of liberals, if you dont' agree with the war you are liberal, and the list goes on and on. Then add on top of that the Churches telling you how to vote.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

live2hunt....I agree.The only hope the Democrats have is in gaining enough seats in congress to offset the Rep. president,whomever that is.I guess as a moderate I can only hope Senator McCain is the next President.Unfortunately we might get someone even further to the right than GWB.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

DecoyDummy said:

"you say things that seems to have little to no basis in fact, then when asked about it, you pretend no one said anything to you or you say something having nothing to do with the discussion ...

Folks ... Am I the only one noticing this phenomenon??"

No, you're not the only one. And if you notice they use the same material over and over and over and over. But that's okay ......... as long as they continue to live in their own self imposed fog bank, that's where they will stay every four years.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Ken,
I have been watching this thread for a while and I (extremely conservative) haven't approved of GW for some time. I approve less of some of his cronnies ie Cheney,Rove,Rumsfeilt, and the list goes on and on.........
I think they are a very arragont bunch of elietists...... However that being said I would still vote for them over anything the National Demoractic Party has to offer. Sorry just me.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> > Decoydummy....how do you know Abe Lincoln wasn't a liberal?
> >
> > The Republican Party moving severely to the right started with Barry Goldwater in the 60's.Not necessarily in the 1860's.
> >
> > ...


This post was so wrong I had to respond. The republican party did not move far right, both parties have moved left since the beginning of each party. Our nation has become more liberal since it's birth.

Lets look back 100 years. What were the alcohol laws in 1905. What kind of attire did you see women wearing in public, and at the beach? How did America feel about gays? Most people didn't know they existed. They also could not comprehend abortion. Do you see where this is going? The republicans like the liberals have become more liberal every year. What do you think our founding fathers would think of gun control? Neither party would have considered it in 1905.



> I guess as a moderate


Ken I have news for you. You are not moderate. You think the republicans have moved far right because of your perspective from the left. Moderate left I will admit, but not overall moderate.

Those who play the constant blame game with Bush are digging the democrats political grave. Of course he is not perfect. He could start improving by shutting down the Mexican/American border (not legal ports of entry). However, the constant Bush lied, and soldiers are dieing every day mantra will only hurt liberals. But don't let me discourage you, please, keep it up.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Maybe it is just me and I've probable said this before but in my view the Republican party of today is almost a mirror image of the Democrat party during JFK's time. The Democrats have moved so far left they are now a Socialist party and the Republican party as I said are the old Democrats. Strange how Kennedy during his short period in office was doing everything then that the Republicans are do today and he was loved for it. If JFK were alive today he would be run out of the country if he tried to get on the Democrat ticket.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Gohon, your absolutely right. If Kennedy did not go through the democratic metamorphosis and was thrust into the year 2005 he would think himself a republican. There is not much further left the democratic leadership can go short of calling for a revolution to install communism.

Even though communism has failed miserably the far left thinks it is only because the right people have not tried it. Many of the radical are sure it would work here in America. Notice I said radical which does not include anyone on here. Well, I guess as Bobm pointed out one fellow on here did advocated it, but perhaps didn't realize it himself.


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## sevendogs (Sep 19, 2003)

Yeah. This feels good. I am glad to read posts by progressively thinking North Dakotans. Today is election day here, in Virginia. Yesterday Bush himself sent me his canned voice begging to vote for a Republican candidate for Virginia Governor Kilgore. A day before Rudy Juliany did the same. We are in a 'no-call' list, but they still did it. No matter what, but we will vote wholesale Democratic. We are independent, but Republicans became so disgusting lately.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Only one thing to say about Pres. Kennedy....that is your opinion.I don't agree.

I look back at the election when Conservative Rep. vice-pres candidate Dan Quayle was running asgainst Dem. Lloyd Bensten and during their debate Quayle brought up things about Kennedy.Bensten said...."I knew President Kenedy....and let me tell you,you are no Jack Kennedy."

So even though I respect you guys and you are entitled to your opinions....I was 16 when Kennedy was killed and was very familiar with what he did.....President Kennedy would never be a member of the far right Republican Party....then or now.

And as far as GWB goes.....I expect some of you guys to defend him....after all he is your guy.But the majority of Americans say he is taking the country in the wrong direction.

Plainsman.....you are wrong about me being any kind of liberal.I really think I am a moderate.There are Republicans I have and will vote for....I think Hoeven is doing a good job except for his policies on the hunting issues.And I would vote for McCain over almost any Democrat that is to far left.

Good discussion...


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ken, Please explain to me what Hoevens Policy on hunting is. I hear all the time that you don't like this guy or that guy because of their hunting policy. Are you against Hoeven because of the number of acres he put into PLOTS or are you still mad about Pheasantgate which was good for ND. Or maybe its because he insists on waterfowl zones? Please enlighten me.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Number 1....from what I understand,he put a muzzle on the GNF during the last session.

He could put another cap on non-res like he did before but refused because of pressure from the G/O Assoc.He could come out in favor of the plan....HPC brought together by our own GNF.

But that's not what this thread is about,so I won't go any furhter.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

sevendogs said:


> We are in a 'no-call' list, but they still did it.


(Minor thread hi-jack, but its in the sake of point - counter point.)

That dont mean much.... During the last major election, I got 15 calls a day from various Democrats urging me to vote their way. Apparently the telephone # I had just recieved from the phone company for my new house had once belonged to a registered Democrat. The automated calls lacked the MANDATED "opt out" option, that by pressing a certain # on my keypad, would lock my number out of the system. The calls manned by a live operator informed me that they didnt control the dialing program, and that the election was "just a few more months away" and that it would all be over after that anyways.....

I decided after weeks of listening to the crap, to try and get ahold of the Nevada Democratic Party directly, and have the problem rectified. After 3 days of various attempts to get through to a live person I succeeded. I informed them that I had just gotten my phone # a few weeks prior, that I was a registered Republican, and that I needed my phone # takin out of the dialing computers. I was told that wasnt possible, because at the time, everyone was too busy campaigning to take the time to straighten out the mess. I told the lady that was fine, and that they wouldnt be hearing from me again, as my Lawyer was going to take over from this point. With Caller ID and an answering machine, I was going to have a clear cut case of harrasment, and I was going to seek damages.

The calls dwindled to a stop in about 24 hours.

Both sides are guilty of this annoying campaign process. Now you know how to get em to stop. I dont care how you vote, but if you hate this crap as much as I do, speak up. Only by demonstrating a serious dislike of the matter, and the threat of legal action, can we get this process to stop.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ken, As I thought all rumors and nothing to back them up. The buisness people and residents of the small communities are the ones that don't want the caps. Blame it on the g/o's because that sounds better and easier to spread hate that way. HPC got its fair shake and has been defeated twice now, but you guys will never give up on this one. I will let you know I am no fan of Hoeven. But to put blame on him for his hunting policy which he has done more good for you I'll never understand. Bring it to another forumn if you wish Ken but you did attack him here and I only asked you a question. Of course as always you had nothing to back yourself up with.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

G/O....talk all you want about HPC......but EVERY G/O in this state practices HPC.Do you let unlimited numbers of hunters on your land?I would bet you don't and neither does any other G/O.They couldn't or else the game would be depleted and no one would hunt there....doesn't that sound exactly like public hunting land????It's OK to talk about HPC as long as it doesn't affect you.

Why can't we practice the same policy on the rest of the state that you practice ????

Because you want to do it on your land but heaven forbid if we try to practice the same thing statewide. :eyeroll:

And as far as the small towns go....once the entire state is commercialized like everywhere else....they will realize they bought a wolf in sheep's clothing.But by then it will be to late as the small towns in the SW are just now learning.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Thanks Ken now I understand Hoevens policy according to you. Let see the legislature failed to pass HPC. And because small towns want hunters in its also Hoevens fault. I believe I questioned you on Hoevens policy which you disagree. I'm disappointed Ken I thought you could do better


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I am also disappointed in the fact that you have no reply to the fact that HPC is practiced by every G/O.It's OK for you guys to do it but not OK for the state to do the same thing,especially when our own GNF comes up with the plan.

But then again g/o,motel owners,cafe owners,tourism,and politicians seem to know better about how to manage our resources.

So I guess we will both be disappointed on some things.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ken, I don't practice HPC on my land,and I don't place a restriction on how many can hunt the youth area. Sorry Ken


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> There is nothing in this statement that is not true.


thats your opinion



> So far the only thing we have gained from Iraq is over 2000 dead soldiers and more hatred of the US.


This is false most Iraqis support the war even the liberal ABC grudgingly admits
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/Go ... 40314.html



> GWB was ultra slow in responding to the Katrina effort....in fact he stayed on vacation while hoodlums actually shot at rescue helicopters and poor people in the Superdome languished....I can still remember a frustrated mother saying....someone from the Fed. or State Gov. better get their *ss down here right now.Of course the Fed gov. was not completely at fault....but GWB appointed the inept FEMA director,and he is supposed to be in charge.


I thought the same thing at first, but after looking into the situation it turned out that Bush had the help there ready to go in and that idiot *DEMOCRAT* Gov of La wouldn't sign off on it, POSSE COMITATIS LAW PREVENTS the feds from going in, and the Idiot *Democrat *mayor was the one that didn't follow the evacuation plan that was developed years ago which was to bus out the folks that couldn't drive themselves, his excuse was he didn't know where to send them although simple common sense would be above sea level.

ANd Ken watch the racist comments on this board, we don't allow terms like "FRUSTRATED MOTHER" when you are refering to a black mayor it has a bad connotation, although they would probably spell it "MUTHER" fortunately your ateacher and can spell :wink:



> And HIS people are involved in the scandals like the CIA-Libby indictment.


ANd they coulnd find evidence to indict him on the actual crime they HOPED existed so they come up with a weak " he might of lied" indictment that will probably fail. What happend to the good old not guilty until proven so principle???



> His party had the commercials on the past year....UP OR DOWN VOTE...yet his far right base torpedoed Ruth Meirs,not the Democrats.Guess it's only UP OR DOWN when it suits you....talk about hypoctitical.....better not hear anymore of that.


Ken even you're not always wrong :lol:



> The American people are holding GWB responsible as they should.Just like any other past president who may have gotten to much or to little credit......thus the low opinion polls.


Polls come and go and they are nonsense because many of these opinions are based on misinformation or lack of real study of the events,WHEN YOU POLE THE IGNORANT YOU GET IGNORANT (AND MEANINGLESS) RESPONCES. ALthough the ignorant do vote so they do have a political component, I guess Bush may not win election next time :lol: 
Given the comments you made here, maybe you should delve into these issues a little deeper before forming a knee jerk opinion. I am always amazed at the inability of liberals to attack Bush on his weaknesses of which he has some glaring ones, so they go after his strengths...history if written honestly will favor Bush for his willingness to fight Islamic Jihadist regimes, and the thing in LA was primarily screwed up by La politicians

Hope you and Dick are slaying the pheasants :beer: I'm on my way to Kansas for their opener this week


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Bob....of course it's my opinion....why would I post someone else's?

I didn't say the Iraqi people hated us....maybe I should have been more clear on that....we are generateing more and more hatred among moslems all over....otherwise why are they coming from everywhere to help the insurgancy?

GWB himself admidted he was wrong as Robert posted above.

Evidently you didn't see the clip showing the black adult female in the squalor of the Superdome tell the Feds and the State to get their *ss down there,the mayor didn't make that quote.

You are not guilt until peoven guilty....and I didn't say he was guilty.just investigated and indicted.We will have to see about that one.

But the overall perception is that GWB is taking us in the wrong direction.

Have a good hunt in Kansas....Haven't been pheasant hunting since opening weekend.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> President Kennedy would never be a member of the far right Republican Party....then or now.


What is it with some people that they insist on twisting everything out of context as if no one can remember what was said in a thread. *No one* claimed that Kennedy would be considered a member of the *FAR* right Republican party. But the Democrat party of 1963 is the same as the Republican party of 2005 and if you don't think so then you don't remember nearly as much about the Kennedy presidency as you think you do. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Gohon, they say old age is when you can remember 20 years ago better than you can remember last week. I remember Kennedy vividly. Can you in your wildest dream imagine a modern day liberal running Russian missiles out of Cuba? They would fall into appeasement mode faster than the French can surrender.

Ken I have also voted for democrats, and would vote for many of them before I would vote for McCain. He has had a childish tantrum ever since he lost the republican primaries. Since that time he has often backstabbed his own party. Not for honorable reasons, simply for revenge. No one can trust him.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I agree........... McCain scares the living hell out of me. I don't trust him for a moment. Actually I don't see any presently talked about contenders from either side that gets me all warm and fuzzy.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> Bob....of course it's my opinion....why would I post someone else's


? 
MY point was you are biased, nothing wrong with that so am I.



> I didn't say the Iraqi people hated us....maybe I should have been more clear on that....we are generateing more and more hatred among moslems all over....*otherwise why are they coming from everywhere to help the insurgancy?*


The Muslims that hate us now hated us before the confict in Iraq, however many Muslims in Iraq and elsewhere are on our side of the issue, when the human spirit gets the opportunity to have freedom it yearns for it. The insurgents are being recruited from theocracies (sp?) that fear what Bush is accomplishing because if we are successful in establishing a free democracy in Iraq they realize they will be next to fall to democracy and therefore lose their power. They are panicked, we just need to keep up the pressure.


> GWB himself admidted he was wrong as Robert posted above.


 He took responsibility ( which was refreshing when you think about it) for the failures of Fema, not for your point about the slowness to respond, that was soley in the hands of the governor of LA and she dropped the ball big time, my company is based in LA and I've discussed this in detail with my coworkers there, she won' be re-elected. The problem is how the media crafts everything he says :eyeroll: against him.



> Evidently you didn't see the clip showing the black adult female in the squalor of the Superdome tell the Feds and the State to get their *ss down there,the mayor didn't make that quote


. 
No I didn't, but I did watch the Mayor make that statement and incidentally I was kidding about the "Muther" comment. The real question is why they didn't get their own ***** out of there, generations of dependence on govt has created a class of people that cannot do for themselves in even the most basic of ways, politicians encourageing dependence to keep themselves necessary, disgusting. Incidentally since all that rif raf has been spread over the rest of the southeast here hasn't been one murder in New Orleans they used to have the worst murder rate in the country.



> You are not guilt until peoven guilty....and I didn't say he was guilty.just investigated and *indicted.*We will have to see about that one.


Look at the indictment, what a political bad joke its stupid at best and has nothing to do with the actual crime they thought he did, pure political fluff. The happy side effect may be that these idiots in our govt may think twice before they talk to any media I would love to see it backfire in the medias' face


> But the overall perception is that GWB is taking us in the wrong direction


. 
Cultivated and distorted by the mainstream leftist media that hates him and distorts the situation in Iraq! When is the last time you saw ABC/CBS/NBC report on the good stuff thats happening over there? schools, families not fearing Saddams police will come into there house and kill or rape them, voting rights, ect. I can't really remember even once. The coverage is always slanted to make the effort look like its accomplishing nothing all based on their hatred of Bush and desire to make him look bad, they would actually prefer we lose this war than see Bush succeed. If our media was like this in WW 2 we would of lost :eyeroll:



> Have a good hunt in Kansas....Haven't been pheasant hunting since opening weekend


Thanks, and why not??? Dick needs someone to keep the cattail fuzz out of his eyes. :lol:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

To busy right now deer hunting.Hope to get into some more pheasants after deer closes.That's when the real pheasant hunting starts.

Gohon....here is a quote from Plainsman I was responding to....."Gohon, your absolutely right. If Kennedy did not go through the democratic metamorphosis and was thrust into the year 2005 he would think himself a republican. 

That sure says Kennedy would probably be a member of the 
Republican Party today.

"But the Democrat party of 1963 is the same as the Republican party of 2005....(that's your opinion and I don't agree.) and if you don't think so then you don't remember nearly as much about the Kennedy presidency as you think you do."

My memory is just fine,mabe your memory is the one that is distorted. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Lets all think for a moment about one of Kennedy's famous quotes. Remember the "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country"? To me that is contrary to current liberal values. They want more and more programs that make people dependent on government. I still laugh at an old Mallard Phillmore cartoon that said "give a man a fish and you will feed him for a day, make the rest of the tribe give him fish and he will vote for you forever". This to me reflects the current liberal philosophy.

Ken, I will concur that you are not as liberal as I thought. I was skeptical because everyone sees themselves as moderate. Very few people have a true picture of their own political position because they see it from their perspective. I consider myself not republican, but conservative. A couple years ago I would have said I was republican, but don't feel that way today. In 1979 I was strongly democrat. I have not gone through that much of a political metamorphosis as the parties have. I have remained true to my values, but both parties have changed. Now I share some values of each party, but sometimes vote against democrats that I like and who I share some values with. This perhaps confusing voting habit comes from the fact that I believe the democrats can destroy my freedom faster than the republicans can destroy the environment. I wish one party could get it straight.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Yes.... Plainsman did say "If Kennedy did not go through the democratic metamorphosis and was thrust into the year 2005 he would think himself a republican"

And your are right that does mean as you said "That sure says Kennedy would probably be a member of the Republican Party today".

But....... you also said "President Kennedy would never be a member of the *far* right Republican Party....then or now".

Nobody was speaking of the FAR right and nobody was speaking of the FAR left. So why the need to add something that was never said that distorts the conversation?

Just out of curiosity, what are some of the accomplishments that as a 16 year old you remember Kennedy doing for this country. Breaking a promise and abandoning a CIA funded group of fighters at the Bay of Pigs, and almost becoming the first President to push us into a nuclear war with Russia during the Cuban Missile crises doesn't count on the positive side so what else was there????? I don't need a lesson on the two events I mentioned or what you think they were about....... I was already on a ship headed for Cuba 24 hours after the first missile was photographed. As Elmer Keith use to say, Hell I was there. I'd just like to know what you think Kennedy accomplished. Then when you have thought about that for awhile, put it along side GWB and with a straight face tell me Kennedy was at the top of the list.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ken, Gohon does have a point, and I might also point out we all know Kennedy wouldn't be a part of the far right no more than you or I would be far right or left. Your reading correctly, I don't consider you far left. Far perhaps in the context of far from the far left, as I consider myself far from the far right. I will not label you far left to try sway people because I would jeopardize my credibility. I don't see any radicals on this site.

Gohon I think liberals keep holding up Kennedy because he was the last liberal president with any fragment of integrity. Like you said he got a lot of patriotic Cubans killed at the Bay of Pigs. I would only give him credit for keeping missiles out of Cuba if he actually did, and I do question what was under those tarps that they would not let us inspect. Dummy missiles perhaps, but I will give him credit for the sake of an argument that can never be settled.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

To me Kennedy was kind of our own royalty that we could compare ourselves to the Brits with. Handsome guy with a beautiful wife and family who had a knack of making you feel good as an American. He challenged us to do better and for the most part Americans accepted the challenge and tried to do just that. The guy was genuinely loved by people around the world and he was viewed as someone destined to do good for all. Unfortunately his term was cut short and we will never know if his presidency would have been a success or failure. But in reality, on the political side of the coin he really accomplished nothing that can be measured as a standard and he made a couple serious mistakes. It was a sad day for Americans when he was assassinated but a disastrous day for America when Johnson stepped into his shoes. That's how I see it.........

AS for GWB, provided something disastrous doesn't occur, I think history will treat him much kinder and more truthful than the present does.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman....you and I are probably pretty close on most things.I'm just more left thatn right and you are probably the other way around.

What I remember most about Kennedy is obviously the Cuban missle crises.But right along side that is the Civil Rights movement and Kenedy sending the National Guard to force integration of the schools down south.

"Gohon I think liberals keep holding up Kennedy because he was the last liberal president with any fragment of integrity."

I don't think Kennedy was any better than Clinton when it came to inregrity.He had more adultrous affairs than Clinton probably had.

The last Democrat with integrity was Jimmy Carter,a southern Baptist.To bad he was inept as a president.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The last Democrat with intefrity was Jimmy Carter,a southern Baptist.To bad he was inept as a president.


Good point, I stand corrected. He was a kind person, but unfortunately inept as you said. He learned the hard way that you can not kiss your enemy into submission.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Gohon Wrote:

AS for GWB, provided something disastrous doesn't occur, I think history will treat him much kinder and more truthful than the present does.

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I think you hit the nail squarely on the head there ...

See what folks are saying in forty years ...

hopefully I will be around for the discussion


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