# 270- kids gun?????



## Waterspaniel (Oct 10, 2005)

I won a gun that I have no use for and I plan to trade it for a gun that my kid will be able to use one day, since I am pretty well stocked in my arsenal. I cant afford the shotgun I would like for him, so I am looking at Savage rifles thatare in my price range. My first deer gun was a 243 pump, and I still have it. I know this opens a can of worms but I believe the 243 is a tad light on deer. No matter how good you are, sooner or later you will have a "marginal hit" that the larger calibers can do serious making up for. I dont want to start a 243 debate here. I have probably shot about 100 deer, including several with the 243. The 243 has produced some good results and resulted in some wounded deer that would have died with my 308 or 7 Mag. So lets not make this a 243 supporter round table. Besides - that will be the boys yote gun anyway.

The question I have - does the 270 have too much recoil for the average 12 year old kid. He is a few years away, but I have no reason to believe that he is going to be any bigger than average. I dont see a lot of attractive options between the 243 and the 270. There are a few in there but they dont have great ballistics, or are a bit tough to find ammo on?

I guess I have the 243 to start with and he could graduate to the 270 as he gets bigger and more confident in his abilities. I have an extra 7mm Mag for him as well, but thats a big jump. The 270 would probably serve him well for many years to come, from deer to antelope to just about anything.

I am a bit of a speed freak. My cabinet has a 204, a 243, a 7mm mag, and a 7 mm short mag. The 270 would be a nice addition to the family. The thing that impresed me was the ballistic co-efficient of the the 270!

Anyone one out there have sons aor daughters using this caliber?


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## WOLFGANG (Feb 19, 2006)

From what I understand the 270 and 308 are pretty similiar in recoil.If you are somewhat worried start your kid out with the light recoil cartridge by remington or federal and work him up from there.


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## wirehairman (Oct 31, 2005)

The 7 mm-0.08 is a great caliber for deer/antelope and has very little recoil. My wife has been shooting one since she was 12, and it's performance has really impressed me. The ammo is a bit spendy unless you reload, which we do.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I have a question....does he shoot a shot gun.....20 or 12? Because if you kid can handle a 20 or 12 ga recoil.....the 270 won't be a problem.

That is just my .02


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Waterspaniel said:


> The question I have - does the 270 have too much recoil for the average 12 year old kid. He is a few years away, but I have no reason to believe that he is going to be any bigger than average. I dont see a lot of attractive options between the 243 and the 270. There are a few in there but they dont have great ballistics, or are a bit tough to find ammo on?


Answer: Yes for a 12 year old starting out rifle hunting this is too much. If he is not a very big kid and isn't _extremely_ comfortable shooting rifles, you'll have problems with him handling the recoil comfortably.



Waterspaniel said:


> I guess I have the 243 to start with and he could graduate to the 270 as he gets bigger and more confident in his abilities. I have an extra 7mm Mag for him as well, but thats a big jump. The 270 would probably serve him well for many years to come, from deer to antelope to just about anything.


That is the much wiser choice if you are set on getting a .270. Have him start with the .243 and graduate to the .270 when he turns 17. I know you didn't want the .243 debate, but tell me this. If he shoots the .270 too soon, and can't handle the recoil, he'll likely start flinching from the gun. This will lead to a wounded deer you'll need to find/chase for miles. How is shooting the .270 an advantage to him with increased knock down power vs. making a well placed shot with a .243 and possibly having a chance of the deer walking over the hill and dying. The bullet impact (knockdown) gains aren't that much compared to the huge gain in bullet placement(accuracy).

If you are insistent about moving to a slightly larger gun, I'd recommend getting a Remington .260 or 25/06. They are the perfect caliber blend of slightly more power without recoil gains.

The .270 is the beginning of the range of too much recoil for someone that young. The confidence he'll gain shooting a smaller caliber will reap huge rewards in accuracy down the road.....

Good Luck!

Ryan

.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Chuck Smith said:


> I have a question....does he shoot a shot gun.....20 or 12? Because if you kid can handle a 20 or 12 ga recoil.....the 270 won't be a problem.


This is not a good comparison to use at all! A 12 ga recoil is less than a .270. Unless you are shooting mag 3 1/2" loads that is...

Plus, a shotgun doesn't require precise accuracy. You can be "off" with your aim on a shotgun and still bring down a bird. A rifle requires looking through a scope, judging distance, speed of movement etc... and then squeezing the trigger the precise moment of placement.

You can shoot a 12 ga as a youth and potentially have some success even with recoil. That is not the same with a rifle. If you start someone with a bad habit... that is hard to break.


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## Waterspaniel (Oct 10, 2005)

I would agree that the non-flinching well placed 243 round is better than an elephant gun in the guts. I also remeber when I was 12..... A doe would send me through the roof with excitement, anything with antlers was a whole 'nuther story. I think most 12-? year olds are gonna make some questionable shots out of inexperience and excitement, so it is 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other.

I also believe consistency builds safety, confidence, and accuracy. Jumping fro one action to another can only mess up the skills we try to instill and drill into a young shooter. -Just might have to buy a 243 Savage bolt as well! Then he could graduate from 204, to 243, 270 to 7 mm mag!

I just wasnt very familiar with the 270 and its whump. I shot a 243 as a kid, and everyone told me to get a 270. They said it was flat and knocked em down better. Well fast forward to college, I hit a massive buck with my 243 and lost him, almost no blood, drove me insane!!!!!!!! That was the third deer I had lost with the 243 since I was 12, the previous two were due to nerves, inexperience, and lack of patience in shot placement. Well I went overboard and got the mag. everyone I know shoots mags, 30-06, or 308. well my nutty brother in law shoots a 45-70, thats another story all together. Well i havent lost a deer since, but I bow hunt now and place my shots better, and get closer. As I study the ballistics, the 270 looks good on paper, just not sure about its kid friendliness.

Thanks for the current and future input. The only thing funner than buying guns for yourself, getting em for your KIDS!


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## 94silverado (Oct 16, 2005)

All I have to say is placement of the rifle and shotgun stock in the shoulder area is critical. I first shot a 12 gauge at a Hunter Safety class outing and I didn't place it right and that is some pain I won't forget. Then my dad and grandpa made me show them how I placed the gun when I shot, they showed me how to place it right and took me out again wow it was much better. So in short your son should be fine if you take the time to make sure he mounts the rifle right and use some managed recoil from Remington while practicing. I'm not saying this is the problem but it solved it for me. Good luck :sniper:


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## honkbuster3 (Jan 11, 2006)

I got my first .270 at the age of 11 and it never kicked me at all. But I did shoot a TON of 12 gauge duck loads. But loved that rifle. My grandpa started out on a .270 and he never had any problem with it. He bought it when he was 14 and died at 86 and he had that winchester for his entire life and loved it. In the end it depends on the kid though. GOOD LUCK :beer:


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## pennsyltucky (Oct 30, 2005)

Waterspaniel said:


> I hit a massive buck with my 243 and lost him, almost no blood, drove me insane!!!!!!!! That was the third deer I had lost with the 243 since I was 12, the previous two were due to nerves, inexperience, and lack of patience in shot placement.


that has nothing to do with caliber. that is a problem of poor bullet selection, poor shot placement, and probably not enuf practice with ur gun. shoot em with a 50bmg in the leg and u wont kill em any better than the same shot with the 243. but ive personally watched a deer drop in its tracks at 215yrds with one shot in the heart/lungs with a 50g soft point bullet out of a .222rem. the 243 is more than adequate. period

he asked about the 270. and stated he didnt want to start a 243 discussion.(even tho he then followed up with a jab at the 243's effectivness) lets not go over the 243 subject anymore.


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

I'm with honkbuster3. It really depends on the kid is question. If they have shot before and can handle the muzzle blast the recoil isn't that bad. Nut the muzzle blast of a .270 is enough to make an inexperienced shooter develope a flinch.

If he shoots a .12 or .20 gauge shotgun I would say he can handle it.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Yeah but you will not notice a flinch when you use a shotgun , you will with a rifle. Apples and oranges here!!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I totally agree with every one on the flinching and other things mentioned. I also totally agree that you can have sucess with a 12 and be off, then you shoot your rifle and be feet off with no success....

But what I meant by the 12 ga. or 20 ga. is does the child shoot. If they can shoot a 12 or 20 all day at ducks, geese, or shooting trap etc (many rounds shot off). They should be able to handle the recoil of a .270. Because you shoot more with the shotgun on these activities than you would a .270.

Also like someone mentioned before....stock to shoulder placement is key in handling recoil.

But IMO if you child shoots 12 or 20 the recoil of a .270 should be no problem. (we don't need to get into an arguement on if this is true....I am just stating MY opinion.)


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

When I started deer hunting at 14 I used a 270 and am still using it 16 years later. I don't remember the recoil being a problem and that my shotgun acutually kicked more than the rifle.


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## Turner (Oct 7, 2005)

If Eric can handle it, any one can. :lol:


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## TN.Frank (Nov 12, 2005)

IIRC a standard 2 3/4" 12ga load had a recoil of around 25 ft/lbs and the 270 with a 130gr bullet is in the neighborhood of 17 ft/lbs so if he can handle a 12ga the 270 will be a breeze.


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## tryin4yotes (Feb 16, 2006)

I started with a 270 as my first deer rifle. It can be a little harsh to start with. It had ahard plastic butt plate (mine is a rem 700bdl) and I did develope a flinch, then my dad and I put a good recoil pad on it and the flinch was gone. Go for the 270 make sure it fits him well and has a good recoil pad on it, also you might want to try the managed recoil amo to start him out then work into the full power stuff.
Btw I still have that gun, 16years of use shoots .4" groups with factory or hand loads.


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

Put a limb saver recoil pad on his rifle and that will take care of any potentional recoil problems. They come as a sleve or mounted one (screwed on). A buddy of mine went to one after his shoulder was destroyed in an accident. I have shot his .338 ultra mag with this on and can't believe how little the felt recoil is. I woiuld say with this pad on his gun kicks like a 25-06. I think that it is supposed to cut down on recoil by 75%. Not sure if that is an accurate number but it does help alot.


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## bgoldhunter (Apr 13, 2005)

Depends on the kid, for sure, and what they are used to. I was shooting a 30-06 at that age, and had no problems. Others may not like even a .243...

BTW a 12 ga has way more recoil than a 270. Check out:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

vs

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_recoil_table.htm

Only the 1oz 2 3/4 loads are comparable to a 270, and that is with 150's. Most guys shooting a 270 are going to go with 130's.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

> shoot em with a 50bmg in the leg and u wont kill em any better than the same shot with the 243.


For the sake of keeping on topic, I'm not going to argue that. I started out using a .270 when I was 9. I wasn't a very big kid. But it was a heavy gun, and we weren't shooting terribly hot loads. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it because it was so heavy off hand, so it wouldn't have mattered if I saw a deer or not, I would have missed. But, the recoil didn't bother me a whole lot. I loved to shoot the gun. But, every once in a while, I'd place the stock into my shoulder wrong, and boy I knew when I screwed up. OUCH! That was with a metal buttplate. I think if I could handle it at that age, that your boy could.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Check out the 260 Rem. Ya I know I keep saying this but I love the light recoil of the 260 and great ballistics. There is nothing wrong with the 270.


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## bighands (Dec 12, 2005)

My 12 year old son has been shooting my lightweight 30-06 and he did ok with the wood stock without a recoil pad, But when I bought a Synthetic stock for it with a good recoil pad he really started to like it and he shoots groups around 1" at 100yds. So I know he can do just fine with it. I made sure the scope was moved forward as far as possible so he wouldn't get scope cut (that will sure make them gun shy!) I think a 270 would be great. you can load it down a little to start with if you want. and let him practice a lot. A 270 was my first rifle and I think that would be a very good choice.


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## pennsyltucky (Oct 30, 2005)

i just noticed that it was waterspaniel that started this thread, then it was his second post that drew me off topic..........

i really think u should take him to the range and have him shoot it. see what he thinks. dont let him shoot very much. and see if he winces at the trigger pull. if a kid doesnt like it he'll probably let u know.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I've never thought the recoil between a shotgun and a rifle was a very good comparison. Seems to me the throwing of a shotgun to the shoulder and slapping the trigger in a swing through just didn't have the felt recoil I felt with a slow deliberate squeeze of a rifle trigger. Mind over matter maybe......... I would think the best option as already suggested is buy him the gun you want him to grow into, and start out with reduced loads and work up from there as time and growth goes on.


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## Eagle Eye (Mar 1, 2006)

My son was 8 years old when he passed the hunters safety course in New Mexico and I wanted to buy him a rifle that he could use the rest of his life, so I bought him a 30-06. My son is now 18 and used that 30-06 for 10 years with no problem. I was 13 when I got my first 30-06 and still use it from time to time. It really does depend on the kid, if the kid is a weakling go liter.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Gohon said:


> I've never thought the recoil between a shotgun and a rifle was a very good comparison. Seems to me the throwing of a shotgun to the shoulder and slapping the trigger in a swing through just didn't have the felt recoil I felt with a slow deliberate squeeze of a rifle trigger. Mind over matter maybe......... I would think the best option as already suggested is buy him the gun you want him to grow into, and start out with reduced loads and work up from there as time and growth goes on.


I fully agree Gohon. This is precisely the problem with people here using straight numbers to make an apples (shotgun) to oranges (rifle) comparison in how much they "kick". It simply isn't the same.

Considering we are talking a 12 year old, why are we insisting he start so big? For those of you who are saying you've either experienced a .270 at that age or have a child who has... and gone on to say it was "all fine"... What is your definition of "all fine"? I've seen too many kids try and handle too big a rifle, wound a deer and then have the entire party spend part of the day recovering it. Sure in the end years later, our memories fade a little, all we seem to remember is that they end up getting a deer every year, and the kid doesn't get a black eye while learning the weapon. Is that your measure of success? In reality, you have deer that get wounded and run off never to be recovered. The child is sporadically accurate at best and wildly inconsistent at worst. He develops a flinch, but you really don't notice, as you are trying to hunt too. For the majority of the deer hunting public, you only handle your rifle each deer season for a few weeks. It's likely that he's only fired a couple boxes of shells through the gun. In his entire life(since he's 12) he's maybe shot 100 times with that big a gun. Do we really want children to have to worry about the kicking of the gun with everything else that is going on around them?

I'd much rather have a child learn with a gun that he can keep his eye in the scope as it fires with less recoil. This has NOTHING to do with whether the kid is a "weakling" as was stated by another....

Take the earlier suggestion like Gohon said and run with it if you insist on going the .270 route. Start with really light loads and work him into it. Make sure he shoots 5 boxes of shells before opening weekend.

My :2cents:


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## bighands (Dec 12, 2005)

Ben, I agree with you fully, some of what I posted earlier may have been misunderstood, I'm not very good at expressing myself. First of all, I sure wouldn't recomend every 12 year old start off with a 30-06, It is like me shooting a 460 Weatherby in comparison. I have 5 boys and the 12 yr. old is the 4th. the others all started out with the 30-06 also, None of them had a problem with it. Kids can take a pretty good punch and it doesn't phaze them much. Second, After getting scope cut a few times myself, I always mount the scope on a hard kicking rifle far enough forward so when you are looking through it comfortably your head is forward as far as possible without being uncomfortable and that has stopped the problem. That hurts like H#((! Kids can get bitten from the scope even on a .243
I would suggest also, getting the .270 and start off with some lighter loads, like 100gr Speer Spitzers with IMR4895 around 2800-3000 fps. and let him shoot it alot, at the range and hunting varmints or whatever, just get the practice. That load will kill deer as good as a .243 also. I like the .270 idea because it's like driving a hotrod, You can have the power if you need it. Maybe he will hunt Elk, Moose or some other big game with it some day, That .270 can handle about anything in North America. 
That's just my thoughts on this and I'm no expert.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

*Waterspaniel,

I agree with you on not started a 243 Winchester cartridge debate if its adequate for deer sized game or not, but for fun take a look at the link provided below, HA HA HA!

http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html

243 Winchester, 270 Winchester, 7mm Remington magnum & 308 Winchester cartridge youth loads, plus others.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php

I would trade or sell the 243 Winchester pump and purchase a Savage Model 11FXP3 in 243 Winchester then later purchase a similar barrel below to convert to a 308 Winchester for large Elk/Moose game if desired, or purchase the 308 Winchester to begin with and use youth loads. Skies the limit!

Barrels will fit non-magnum caliber Savage model 10, 11, 12, 16, 110, 111, 112, 114, 116 rifles.
Sale price $82.49 - Adams & Bennett Barrel Savage 110 Series 308 Winchester Factory Contour 1 in 10" Twist 24" Chrome Moly Blue
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... mid=414865
Other barrels
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/br ... **11790****


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## MarineCorps (Dec 25, 2005)

get him shooting a 20 ga. alot, then a 12, then if he doesn't mind the recoil buy him that .270


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## savage111fc (Jul 30, 2006)

i started out at 8 years old with a savage 110 30-06. i'm 26 years old now and have a savage 270 and i wish i'd have started on a 270 before the 30-06 because it's a more dependable gun and it's an all around good caliber rifle. as far as the recoil goes, i'm not above average size and wasn't then either, and i still shot my first eight point buck between 200 and 300 yards with a 30-06. in my opinion, he should be fine. just make sure the scope doesn't ring him


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## Lil Sand Bay (Feb 2, 2005)

When my daughter was thirteen I got her a .270, but she had spent a lot of time with a .22. I never made any issue of the recoil, and neither did she from the very first shot. Recoil is more a topic for dicussion then a physical issue.


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## jeep_guy_4x4 (Apr 11, 2005)

Between 8 & 10 years old all of the old farts made such a big deal about recoil I was deathly afraid of shooting any gun...

Soon after that, the more I thought about it the less it scared me... The more they jazzed me about it the more I was determined that I could do it.. So, I asked to shoot my fathers 7mm, but he wouldn't let me... told me I was too young....

So finally, I skipped school, grabbed my fathers 7mm and went hunting rabbits... I was scared to death to pull the trigger, when I did, all I thought about was the ringing in my ears because it was so much louder than a shot gun.... The recoil really didn't bother me because I was so focused on hitting the rabits. Note: this gun didn't have any sights on it, and his scope was in the shop for repair. I shot 5 rabbits, nothin left to most of them. I thought I was going to get my a$$ beat when my father got home.... But I think he was to proud.... Anyhow, I did get an a$$ chewin....

Me & my best friend were determined to be the best at everything... Baseball, football... and hunting... we were very confident at everything we did. We were the best at all sport vrs other kids.. We were both average size...

If you gave me a .223 @ 10 years old and told me I could drop a deer...
you bet your butt I could have done it...

I believe its mind over matter.... confidence...

Note:

Roy Weatherby dropped a cape buffaloe with .257 with one shot....


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