# rifle help



## berniemac2006 (Aug 15, 2005)

Hey guys! new to the site. I was wondering if you could give me some advice for a good rifle to use mainly for deer hunting(for now). Iam leaning toward a 7mm mag. was wondering if any knew much about the WSM variety of mags. also rifle brand/model? I'm looking to spend in the area of $600 or less for rifle and scope. Around home I normally shoot a 12 gauge with 3 inch slugs so I'm not very concerned about recoil.

Thanks in advance for help


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Well, if ALL your going to use this rifle for is to hunt deer (White tail i assume?) then a 7mm Mag is probably a bit more than is needed. What else might you use it for? I know alot of people use them for deer, but as far as meet goes, they tend to be a little rough.

If your hunting terrain is close quarters enough to use shotgtun slugs, then a 7mm magnum is way over the top. A .243 or 25-06 would do just fine. the .308 would also be a good choice.

These more traditional rounds will be easyer to find, cheaper, and will kill it just as dead, just as easy.

As for the gun, try the Rmington 700, or the Ruger M77. Either of these with one of the better Bushnell scopes should be right around your price range.


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## berniemac2006 (Aug 15, 2005)

I normally hunt in NW Illinois, but I will be using the rifle down in MO. so shots out to 400+ yds are possible. I am kind of looking for this to be my all-around larger game rifle. I would love to maybe do some elk hunting in the future, but for now it will just be used on whitetail


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Go with one of the WSM's noobody around here seems to know much about them but I bet they are good.


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## apeterson (Aug 3, 2005)

If you are using it for Elk then a 7mm or 7mm mag are both nice... Like posted before they are a little much for deer but I know people who use both. I hunt in MN and I use a 270 Win... Been a great gun, killed lots of deer. I dad uses a 30-06 which is a little bigger and a great all around gun for everything... may not be too good for 400 yrd however, I would have to look at the balistics. I know if I was buying an all around gun I may go with a 30-06, just me however


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

i was just about to sugest the 30-06 as well. Why buy an Elk Gun just to use it mainly on deer? The 30-06 will take anything On this continent and still have enough punch at longer ranges.

This being Said, i LOVE the WSMs. Ballisticaly i think the 7mm WSM is the Cats Wiskers. With a Moderate load it would be just like the Antiquated 280 British. If you can foot hte Ammo bill on a 7mm WSM then go for it.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

If it were me, and looking to buy a Rifle for LONG RANGE DEER, with the possibility of using the same Rifle for ELK some day, the choice would be fairly easy. It would either be a 7mm WSM or a .300 WSM. The WSM Cartridges come really close to equaling the 7mm Remington Magnum and the .300 Winchester Magnum (remember I said close to equaling), but with less recoil. In addition if you are ever going to get into Handload / Reloading the WSM series of Cartridges do not have the troublesome BELT typical on most Magnums.

Personally I have been working with a buddies Browning A Bolt (Blued - Synthetic) Rifle chambered for the .300 WSM Cartridge. While this cartridge recoils more than a typical .30-06, it produces lnoticablly less recoil than a .300 Winchester Magnum. In addition just this past Saturday we were doing some accuracy testing, and chronographing with this .300 WSM. To my surprise the Winchester Supreme Ammo loaded with the 150gr. Ballistic SilverTip actually chronographed EXACTLY what the Winchester web site publishes for a Muzzle Velocity.

This 150gr. Ballistic SilverTip, with a Ballistic Coefficient of .418 at a muzzle velocity of 3300 FPS (12 feet from the muzzle in 70 degree temperatures) should be able to take any Whitetail as far as you would ever want to shoot one, and I am talking 1/4 mile + provided the shooter is up to the task. What I am referring to is the BALLIISTICS of the Cartridge / Load are capable of the task at hand.

I have not shot a 7mm WSM so I can not speak for that cartridge, but in the Browning Blued - SYntheitc A Bolt the Recoil of the .300 WSM while substantial was in no way severe. According to my figures a 7mm WSM should produce a little less recoil than the .300 WSM.

It is always a tough decision in buying a new Rifle, and in particular in a new Cartridge. Enjoy the decision making process, and more to the point, enjoy your new Rifle & Cartridge.

Larry


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Also look into the 325 WSM, looks good.


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## Lil Sand Bay (Feb 2, 2005)

Don't settle on a caliber based on a maybe 400 yd shot. I've been shooting for fifty years and can't remember ever having to take a 400 yd shot. To even give it a try at that range with confidence means a lot of practice from the bench. You'll feel a 7mm Mag. from the bench if it's you first centerfire, you'll probably develop a nice flinch for your effort. 
A .270, 30-06 or .308 are all perfectly capable for anything you'll ever do, and I've used all on elk to great satisifaction. You really don't need a Bean Field gun.
For deer at 400 yds I use something entirely different.... it's called binoculars.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Go with the WSM over the standard cartridge. Ballistics are better and the rounds are becoming easier to find year after year. The .300WSM was the first to come out a couple years back and you can find them everywhere now. The newer one's aren't as commonplace yet but they will be.


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

The balistics this, the balistics that.....in my humble opinion the feel of the gun is the most important part.

If you want a good gun try out a Tika t3 lite. I bot mine last year and love it. I purchased a .270. That was the first rifle i purchased in 16 years. My remington will still be used occasionally, but i do love the tika, that's for sure.


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## berniemac2006 (Aug 15, 2005)

thanks for all the help guys. I have looked around and decided fairly firmly on a remington model 700 sps in stainless. as for caliber...i am thining of going with the .300 win mag because...I'm not sure why just liked it. as for scope...? a little input here would be greatly appreciated as well. I want a silver finish scope, more than 3-9x. I sort of like the simmons AETEC 2.8-10x anyone know anything about this or suggest another?


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

Leupold 4.5-14 with the B&C reticle sounds like it would do nicely. If you are going to spend the money on such a nice rifle, top it with the best. Just my humble opinion, but I think a 20x scope would be a waste on a big game rig. Good shooting, Burl


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

I'd second what burly said for scopes. The only gun I would put a Simmons scope of any kind on would be a .22.


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## jeep_guy_4x4 (Apr 11, 2005)

www.swfa.com

Burris scopes....have a special right now....$200 bucks buys a real nice scope...

I would say its damn near as good as my leopold vx-iii...probably comparable to a vx-ii


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## berniemac2006 (Aug 15, 2005)

thanks for all the help. I went with a ruger M77 mark II in the weather warrior style. synthetic stock, stainless steel barrel, caliber: .300 win. mag. Still lookin around for a scope, like the nikon buckmaster 4.5-14x40AO but Cabela's is out of them and i have a $150 gift card i would like to use. Also like the Leupold VXII 4-12X40AO, but this is around $150 more than the Nikon, don't know if it is worth that much more. also looking at the bushnell elite 3200 4-12X40AO. Anyone's thoughts? thanks guys


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Optics make a rifle! Low light conditions are where they separate! I have a VXIII and a lower quality scope on my wifes rifle! Side by side at dusk or dawn it is amazing the difference! We watched a decent buck last fall almost come withing shooting range. It was overcast and 10 min before sunset. My wife could not pick up the deer standing in the grass, yet he stood out just like it was midday with the VXIII!

If you can afford to buy nothing of less quality than a VXIII, when comparing and shopping use that as your base line! Since I have not been in the scope market in a while that is the best advice I can share!

I know the next scope I buy I will be going to the store around dusk, I will get them to take the scopes I am interested in outside and look through them. Then do the same during bright light conditions, and make my choice after that!


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## berniemac2006 (Aug 15, 2005)

391 views and only 16 replies, and i think 3 or 4 are from me. thanks for all the help you guys already gave, but no one has anything else suggest for me?


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Ron Gilmore said it all with regard to scopes, nothing more to add.......


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## fmsniper (Sep 21, 2005)

zogman said:


> Ron Gilmore said it all with regard to scopes, nothing more to add.......


yep get the Luppy


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## Danimal (Sep 9, 2005)

I have to agree w/ Ron and Burl.

I have a VXIII on my Wby Mk5 and LOVE it... It wasn't cheap but is blows away my other scopes. I also have a B&L Elite 3000 (4x12??)x40 and according to many of the gun rags, it has excellent optics and is supposed to be better than the Luppy. I prefer the Luppy because the eye relief if more forgiving. On the B&L, I have to be in the exact spot or I get the "dreaded black ring".

As for other brands that I have experience with....
I put the Nikon Prostaff on my shotgun (then moved it to my Apex). For most of my hunting it will be fine (under 150 yards). Good value scope (and Eric, my hunting partner (former-SEAL) put it on his Omega and likes it as well. (I trust his experience with optics.... :sniper: )

I also have a Nikon Monarch 2X and it is very nice also.

Just my 2 cents.....


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

The nicon is a lot of scope for the cash, also the leopold xv-1 and vx-2 are great buys for the money. For the record, I would have liked to mention the 270. Shoots very flat, low recoil, and with todays very good bullets like failsafes and barns X very capablel of large game all without lots of kick.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

zogman said:


> Ron Gilmore said it all with regard to scopes, nothing more to add.......


Ditto...


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## Farmhand (Oct 5, 2005)

I hate to add confusion to your question, but here goes. I am fifth generation on a 12,000 acre ranch in CA where 400 Yard shots are fairly common and I have been around something over 1,000 deer kills. The rifles we use are varied; and include two 308s (w/ 150 grain hornady light magnum ammunition), two 270s, three 3006s, and two 7 Rem Mags. All with good glass on them. We use this rule of thumb - 2,900 +/- FPS or better with a minimum of at least 130 grains of good quality bullet.

The rifle you are looking at (7 Rem Mag) is probably the top performer on paper, so long as you shoot it well. Sighted in 4" high at 100 yard, assuming 3,250 FPS, you are 6" high at 200 yard and 7" low at 400 yards. In short, hold low on the deer at close range and high on the deer at long range.


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