# French Protests (Riots)...again



## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

In just another reason why Unions and the French suck....

French Unions Stage New Labor Law Protest Marred by Violence 
March 28 (Bloomberg) -- French students and labor unionists marched through Paris today, leading a fourth nationwide day of protests against a new youth labor law. Police fired tear-gas as violence broke out when some protesters refused to disperse.

Police, who deployed 4,000 officers in the capital, coordinated with union security stewards to stop the march degenerating as one did on March 23 when youths torched cars, damaged a shop and attacked marchers.

As marchers arrived today at Place de la Republique, the end of the protest route, police fired tear-gas and charged as they were bombarded with bottles and other missiles. Stewards urged protesters who hadn't yet entered the square to go home.

Protests against the new labor law, which makes it easier to fire young people, have brought together unions, students and the opposition Socialist Party, who want it scrapped. Known by its French acronym CPE, the contract drove hundreds of thousands to the streets in the last two weeks, forcing Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin to offer some concessions on March 25.

The issue threatens to split the ruling Union for a Popular Movement, or UMP, party, whose president and most likely presidential candidate, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, has distanced himself from de Villepin. Sarkozy yesterday called for a suspension of the CPE to allow consultations.

``We have to find a way which is not a retreat and at the same time allows the unions to come back to the negotiating table,'' Eric Woerth, a Sarkozy adviser, said after UMP lawmakers saw de Villepin today. France elects a successor to President Jacques Chirac in 13 months' time.

Sarkozy Program

In the northern town of Douai yesterday, Sarkozy presented a simplification of labor laws as part of his 2007 election platform.

``France is not condemned to sitting back and watching the world change around it while its economy degenerates and its social model malfunctions,'' Sarkozy said.

In parliament today, de Villepin said he's ready for discussions on reducing youth unemployment. He repeated earlier offers to trim the CPE's two-year probation period and oblige employers to explain layoffs within that time.

Segolene Royal, tipped as a likely Socialist Party candidate for 2007, told reporters that Chirac should intervene and ask the government to start talks ``by recognizing a mistake and a bad reform and withdrawing the law.''

Students held their first national protest on Feb. 7, followed by a second demonstration on March 7 and a third on March 18.

Provincial Turnout

Today's demonstrations gathered about 878,000 people in provincial cities outside Paris, LCI television cited police as saying.

Today's protest could gather a total of 3 million across the country, Bernard Thibault, secretary general of Confederation Generale du Travail, or CGT, France's second largest union, said on LCI.

Five labor unions, including the CGT and the biggest, the Confederation Francaise Democratique du Travail, declined an invitation from de Villepin to talks on the conflict tomorrow, union officials said.

``De Villepin's letter invites us to discuss adjusting the CPE and that's not acceptable,'' said Anne Delbande, 27, secretary general of the UNEF students' union. ``He must withdraw the text and then we'll talk.''

Strikes

The protest was backed by numerous strikes, though transport stoppages had only a limited impact. At 8:30 a.m., 70 percent of Paris subway trains and buses were running normally as were three-quarters of regional express, or RER, trains on the east- west A line and half on the north-south B line, the city transport authority said.

Civil servants, including teachers, hospital staff and employees at utilities such as Gaz de France SA and Electricite de France SA, staged walkouts. National newspapers weren't published because of strikes at printing presses.

Gas production was cut by 4 percent and more cuts will follow, said Marie-Claire Cailletaud, CGT spokeswoman for mines and energy workers. She said employees are also protesting the proposed GDF merger with Suez SA.

One third of flights, both domestic and international, were canceled, the French civil aviation authority said. One of two runways was closed by a firefighters' strike at Paris's Orly airport, and an air traffic controllers' stoppage is delaying planes at Charles de Gaulle airport.

The protests have closed 56 of France's 84 universities, UNEF students' union said.

Violence

On March 23, smoke wafted around the Eiffel Tower after rioters near Invalides, the gold-domed monument that houses Napoleon's tomb, attacked protesters and burned cars. Police questioned 227 people, 80 of whom were detained.

``Police are filtering everyone coming in from the suburbs, they're searching bags for anything that could be used as a weapon,'' Joaquin Masenet, secretary general of the UNSA police union said. ``Officers are in every train station to check who is coming into Paris.''

The current protests follow three weeks of clashes in the underprivileged suburbs of French cities, afflicted by high unemployment and other social ills, last November.

The CPE is the most contentious issue faced by de Villepin, 52, in his 10 months as prime minister. De Villepin says the new law makes France's labor market more flexible and is needed to counter unemployment of 9.6 percent nationwide and 22.2 percent for the young. Students say it reduces job security.

`Discriminatory'

``The CPE puts the young in a discriminatory position in regards to the rest of the workforce,'' said Lorette Dubois, 17, a student at the Lycee Condorcet high school, near Paris's Gare Saint Lazare station. ``You can't get a house, start a family, buy a car. You could be fired at any moment. It's humiliating.''

With the CPE, the unions have an issue that has broad opposition. Sixty-three percent of the French disapprove of de Villepin's decision to maintain the CPE, while 34 percent back the prime minister, according to an Ipsos SA poll for Le Monde and France2 television.

Four percent of those polled on March 25 want the CPE to be kept unchanged; 50 percent want it maintained with some adjustments, and 44 percent want it revoked, the poll of 959 people aged 18 or more showed.

To contact the reporter on this story:
Gabriele Parussini in Paris at [email protected].
Last Updated: March 28, 2006 10:57 EST

Can you believe the way these people think? I remember hearing about all of this in my European Politics class during my undergrad and questioned it then. Now we are seeing the country "reap what they sew."

*``The CPE puts the young in a discriminatory position in regards to the rest of the workforce,'' said Lorette Dubois, 17, a student at the Lycee Condorcet high school, near Paris's Gare Saint Lazare station. ``You can't get a house, start a family, buy a car. You could be fired at any moment. It's humiliating.'' *

Amazing, Communism has proven to fail and now Socialism is failing right behind it. MT, your thoughts on the issue?

Jeff Given


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

If the French do one thing well, it is riot.


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> If the French do one thing well, it is riot.


LoL....


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Well, that and surrender


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Oh you can't blame them for surrendering so much. With such poor leadership and such an unfortunate spot between England and Germany they are certain to get flattened from time to time. It is their ability to toss a flaming chair into the streets and form a new government in Paris or flip cars and leave work over the smallest of things that impresses me.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

We're stuck between Canada and Mexico! Things can always be worse


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Oh you can't blame them for surrendering so much. With such poor leadership and such an unfortunate spot between England and Germany they are certain to get flattened from time to time. It is their ability to toss a flaming chair into the streets and form a new government in Paris or flip cars and leave work over the smallest of things that impresses me.


You're joking, right? I hope I could not read into the sarcasm over this fabulous piece of technology. The French are notorious for governments collapsing. I believe this current government is not even their longest lasting government, since the 1800's Out of all developed countries I venture to guess the French government is the least stable in the big scheme of things.

I mean sure, they can come up with new governments when their current government collapses, but is that really a good thing.

Jeff Given

EDIT: Had to change my time line.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Generally one government has to collapse for another to take it's place.


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Generally one government has to collapse for another to take it's place.


MT...how many times does this have to happen in order for it to be deemed "unstable?"

Also, what are your views on unions? Not pickin' on you, trying to feel you out.

Jeff Given


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

*1789:* 
French Revolution. Madam Guillotine as you may recall. "Streets had running rivers of blood."
*1799:*
Order established by Napolean as self proclaimed, "First leader of a dictatoral Consulate."
*1802:*
Napolean proclaims himself as President. Known as the first Republic. 
*1804:*
Napolean declares himself emperor.
*1814:*
First Republic falls. 
*1815:*
Bourbon Monarchy was restored.
*1830:*
Bourbon dynasty replaced by Louis Philippe of the House of Orleans.
*1848:*
French rebelled and formed the Second Republic. Napoleon's nephew, Louis Napoleon as president. Was president for 10 years before he proclaimed himself emperor.
*1870:*
France's military defeat by the Prussians bring down the Second Republic.
*1871:*
Third Republic established with blood-shed of thousands under the Paris Commune of 1871.
*1877:*
Parliament rebelled and forced the current President to resign. Prime Minister position created.
*1940:*
Third Republic ended with German invasion. The Southern part of the Country was loosely governed by the "French State" under Marshal Philippe Petain.
*1947:*
The Fourth Republic was instituted in January '47. Under the Fourth Republic there were 20 Governments and 17 Prime Ministers in a 12 year period.
*1958:*
Fifth Republic Established under De Gaulle.

During this time there were also numerous Military Coups not written in my notes and I do not want to type anymore...But if this is not "unstable" I do not know what is.

Jeff Given


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Oh you can't blame them for surrendering so much. With such poor leadership and such an unfortunate spot between England and Germany they are certain to get flattened from time to time. It is their ability to toss a flaming chair into the streets and form a new government in Paris or flip cars and leave work over the smallest of things that impresses me.


_Between_ England and Germany? MT go look at a map...

:eyeroll:


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## deathwind (Apr 17, 2005)

I wouldn't be to quick to be down on the french boys they did help you once.As far as stuck between Canada and Mexico just what does that mean ???


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

deathwind said:


> I wouldn't be to quick to be down on the french boys they did help you once.As far as stuck between Canada and Mexico just what does that mean ???


The French have helped us? Did they knock someone out of the Olympic hockey playoffs? Or are you referring to the Louisiana Purchase?

:huh:


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

deathwind said:


> I wouldn't be to quick to be down on the french boys they did help you once.As far as stuck between Canada and Mexico just what does that mean ???


Nothin much really, just a joke, dont read to much into it.

FWIW, Half my family is Canadian. Mostly farmers in and around Edmonton.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Ben Elli said:


> deathwind said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't be to quick to be down on the french boys they did help you once.As far as stuck between Canada and Mexico just what does that mean ???
> ...


He's refering to the French assistance during our revolutionary war with England.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Well, lets get started then.

No one ever said that the French governments are stable, but they make up for that in quantity. Their ability to protest at the drop of a hat is impressive to me.

I think unions are great. They help to maintain a balance between excessive worker demands and opressive buisness owners.



> Between England and Germany? MT go look at a map...


England is west, Germany is east. Germany has gone through France to get to England in the First and Second World Wars.



> The French have helped us? Did they knock someone out of the Olympic hockey playoffs? Or are you referring to the Louisiana Purchase?


How quickly you forget about the Revolutionary war.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

I dunno , You all would forget all that French bashing if you saw this girl I met a few months ago from France! OH MY GOD!!!! 

That and I do LOVE FRENCH FRIES.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> No one ever said that the French governments are stable, but they make up for that in quantity. Their ability to protest at the drop of a hat is impressive to me.


I dont see how this is impressive. Seems to me if the people could select a system that worked _cough_capitalist republic_cough_ They wouldnt need to protest at the drop of a hat.

I certainly dont think its a good thing that the French so quickly and easily give up on their governments and go straight to violent protests. I mean c'mon.... The US govt does things to piss off people all the time. We're smart enough to work for change within our government.

I dont think its impressive, I think its sad. The French people are so used to failing at creating a successful government that they actually believe mass Riots, looting, and burning their neighbors cars is a rational way to handle the government being stupid.

"Hey Jacques?"

"Yes, Claude?"

"Did you hear we arent allowed to wear pants on thursday anymore?"

"Yes I did"

"Im going to burn your car"

"Its ok, I burned yours this morning"

"Good. See you for coffee and croisants in the morning?"

"Oui"


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> > Well, lets get started then.
> ...


Very true. In fact it can be argued they indebted themselves so far that it was the cause of the French Revolution. However, let's not forget the French HATED the English and if they had any chance to kick them while they were down they would take it.

Jeff Given


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I didn't say changing governments frequently was good, I said it was impressive. I think Hitler was rather impressive as well, though I despise the man.



> At one time they were necessary. Today they hurt business. Hell, look at GM for that matter.


GM is failing because foreign competition has a lot of advantages, like national health care. If you remove the unions you will go back to 12 hour work shifts and working 6 days a week. Just because you don't agree with them now doesn't make them unnecessary.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> GM is failing because foreign competition has a lot of advantages, like national health care. If you remove the unions you will go back to 12 hour work shifts and working 6 days a week. Just because you don't agree with them now doesn't make them unnecessary.


And paying the guy that sweeps the floor, or the guy that sits in the car as it goes through a wash $30 an hour ......

The unions have made sure that no matter how easy your job is, so long as you work union you will earn 3 times more than the average non-union job.

I agree unions have their place, but making sure the guy emptying trash cans makes 50-60k a year is an abuse of their power.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Would you want to empty trash cans for a living? Me either, thats why they get paid a good amount of money.

As to guys working at a car wash making 30 dollars an hour, where do you live? It certainly isn't my way in that area.


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## natemil373 (Dec 3, 2005)

Look; In this day and age workers have the right to choose whether or not they want to work 12 hour shifts. If you don't, you quit. When Unions were created, there wasn't always that choice. They are out dated and seriously hinder business. I owned a chain of Supermarkets that I founded ten years ago. I was very successful with them, and actually just sold them to a large national chain about 2 years ago. When I owned them, all stores were profitable. Some were more so than others, but they all contributed to the bottom line. The national chain that I sold them to was a union labor company. Despite raising sales in most of the stores, they ended up closing several of them due to the fact that they were losing money in them. This is representative of paying union wages, I have that information directly from a representative of this company whom I know. I paid fair wages that rewarded those who produced, and I never lost one single employee who complained of bad working conditions. I will never support a system that supports the lazy. I have heard stories of not being able to fire someone due to unions when this person hasn't produced in years. In this day and age, the person who chooses to take the trash out as his job has every right to choose to do something else. If he wants to better himself and his family by stepping up to the plate and improving his professional position, he has ecvery opportunity. I would never pay someone $60,000 a year to take out the trash, but I would pay the guy who used to take out the trash and has advanced himself to a position of greater responsibilty.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> Look; In this day and age workers have the right to choose whether or not they want to work 12 hour shifts. If you don't, you quit. When Unions were created, there wasn't always that choice. They are out dated and seriously hinder business.


People used the same argument when unions were formed. It wasn't true then and it isn't true now.

Unions are not all good, but they are still as necessary today as they were in the time of Carnegie Steel.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Would you want to empty trash cans for a living? Me either, thats why they get paid a good amount of money.
> 
> As to guys working at a car wash making 30 dollars an hour, where do you live? It certainly isn't my way in that area.


Emptying trash cans is a no brainer, like flipping burgers, or selling popcorn. Its an unskilled, low labor job. As such, he shouldnt earn as much as the guy with a trade school under his belt that actuall has to use his brain to complete a job. ITs a minimum wage job, and I for one dont think its fair that GM, Ford, or anyone else is forced to pay those incredible pay rates for a job any idiot with at least 6 fngers and a thumb can do. Its pure socialst thinking to believe that everyone should make excellent money just because they work a 40 hour shift. Where I come from you earn what you are worth to the company, no more no less.

As for the car wash, I was refering to the guys at the Automobile plants. I had a buddy that was a non union engineer for GM almost lose his job because he took an astro van through a car wash himself to check for leaks instead of standing around for an hour waiting for the car wash monkey to do it. He was saving GM money, but because it cut out some union bum he was almost fired.

That my friend is why Unions are bad.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> Its pure socialst thinking to believe that everyone should make excellent money just because they work a 40 hour shift. Where I come from you earn what you are worth to the company, no more no less.


Was it not for unions you would make a cup of warm spit and be lucky to feed your family. You may call it socialism, but the unions must stand to protect workers from big buisness.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

DAMN those French officials for trying to get unemployment under 12%! DAMN THEM!

Isn't it helarious! Over here in American, We whine and cry if unemployment is over 4%...but in Europe, the contries everyone tells us we should emulate, unemployment levels of 10%-12% are NORMAL. Iv alwase found that kind of funy considering that these nations are more socialistic, and promis everybody jobs. :lol: Yup, I think we should re-model our government on that of France! :roll:


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Was it not for unions you would make a cup of warm spit and be lucky to feed your family. You may call it socialism, but the unions must stand to protect workers from big buisness.


Wrong. Im a buisness owner, in a field with no unionization at all. I make a good living, I set my days off, and no one calls me and tells me I have to strike because the greedy corporations showed a profit and didnt pass it on to Johnny the floorsweeper to make sure he can make the payment on his lexus.

Unions did a lot of good, but you know as well as I do that the janitor shouldn't make as much as the skilled labor. If the janitor wants to earn more, he has to apply himself. NOT cry to the union boss.\

Another good example of union abuse is the guy at the local garbage dump that takes your yellow piece of paper that says you passed through the front gate and puts it on a table under a rock. He then points and says "park there," where ever there is an empty slot. He makes 18.00 an hour to start this job!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Your area of expertise hasn't needed the help of unions. That is good, but many do.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Unions would be ok if all they did was protect people from greedy corporations, but they have to much power, and to much political clout. We have all seen where they abuse this power, and like gun owner says, pay people way beyond what they are worth. It ticks me off when these unions take your money, then donate it to a politician you can't stand. Any union that does that should be disbanded.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

It is all a balancing act. In many areas, unions are a bit too strong, it will even out. You can't just throw out the unions because you don't like them at the current time, they are a necessary part of a happy, functioning economy.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

So long as there is only 1 union, there is no balance.

I wonder if splitting each 1 right down the middle and making them compete with eachother a lil bit might help. You know, a little capitalized union?

Wont happen of course, but its nice to dream.

One thing to keep in mind MT is that unions are greedy and overly strong, and its going to get worse, not better. As it sits right now they are bleeding companies dry through their payroll departments and dont stop to think that if the company goes bankrupt that their members will be SOL with no job.

As I understand it, union greed is a large part of why you wont find any new lever action Winchesters for sale for the first time in well over 100 years.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Winchester removed those guns because they don't sell very well. Unions are a bit too strong in some areas, but I would rather see that than companies like WalMart who treat their employees poorly because they lack a union.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Militant_Tiger said:


> It is all a balancing act. In many areas, unions are a bit too strong, it will even out. You can't just throw out the unions because you don't like them at the current time, they are a necessary part of a happy, functioning economy.


I didn't advocate getting rid of all of them, just the ones that like to play in politics. Not everyone in the union wants the same president, or senator.

They may protect a few individuals, but I don't think they do anything for the economy. Pay high wages for poor work, and the price of poor products goes up. Who is happy besides the lazy worker, not the customer purchasing the product. It's like a puppy chasing it's tail, raise wages and the price of products go up. The price of products go up, and you need higher wages to maintain the same quality of life. The only beneficiary is the worker that is below average.


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## Goose Huntin' Machine (May 8, 2005)

Toyota is now building cars in America....they are not putting up with the same Union Non-Sense as GM, Ford, Chrysler.

I would agree and say that Unions were, at one time, useful and necessary. But now, the Government has laws creating a minimum wage, over time over 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week. To say we still need unions today like we did in the 1800's is a bit naive.

Jeff Given


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Goose Huntin' Machine said:


> Toyota is now building cars in America....they are not putting up with the same Union Non-Sense as GM, Ford, Chrysler.
> 
> I would agree and say that Unions were, at one time, useful and necessary. But now, the Government has laws creating a minimum wage, over time over 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week. To say we still need unions today like we did in the 1800's is a bit naive.
> 
> Jeff Given


 :beer: Great post Jeff


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## wolfeyes (Nov 2, 2005)

mr.trooper said:


> DAMN those French officials for trying to get unemployment under 12%! DAMN THEM!
> 
> Isn't it helarious! Over here in American, We whine and cry if unemployment is over 4%...but in Europe, the contries everyone tells us we should emulate, unemployment levels of 10%-12% are NORMAL. Iv alwase found that kind of funy considering that these nations are more socialistic, and promis everybody jobs. :lol: Yup, I think we should re-model our government on that of France! :roll:


 Are you a product of the Indiana school system?lol.......jh


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

I think you mean J/k, not "jh" :roll:

What school system are you a product of? Is it California?

BTW, the "Whine and cry" line was a pun relating to France. Apparently it went over your head. Yes Im a poor typist and i dont use spell check. I would explain the concept of musscle memory to you but I doubt it would make any difference.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

On my command: Ready&#8230;."Threat, come to the hunt and fire." "Press check, decock and holster.

On my command: Ready&#8230;."Threat, come to the hunt and fire." "Press check, decock and holster

On my command: Ready&#8230;."Threat, come to the hunt and fire." "Press check, decock and holster

On my command: Ready&#8230;."Threat, come to the hunt and fire." "Press check, decock and holster

Nope&#8230;.never heard of "muscle memory". LOL!! BTW&#8230;it may take more than 1000 reps. to get it right. More like 10,000. But who's counting. :wink: :wink:

As far as the Frenchies go&#8230;.they can "bleep my bleep"&#8230;&#8230;.I know, I know&#8230;..its just the way I think!!! :beer:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

In the past several weeks, young people in France have been protesting a new law. This law would make it legal for employers in France to fire people under 26 in their first few years of employment. Isn't it saying something about a country when you have to pass a law to actually be able to fire somebody? Well anyway, this didn't go over too well in the socialist welfare utopia that is France.

So what do people do when they disagree with a particular proposal? They start rioting and go on strike. They burn and destroy. They attack police officers. And, of course, that's exactly what the French tadpoles did. Well, today we find out it worked. The head French weasel, President Jacques Chirac has caved in.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi ... refer=home

It was announced today that the law will be "replaced," whatever that means. uke:

So now unemployment will continue to run rampant in France among youth. Why? Because nobody can ever be fired -- not unless you want to jump through hoop after hoop, including providing about three years of severance pay.  If you had a business, would you hire some unproven young worker with no work experience if you couldn't fire him? So this is what things are like in France...*and make no mistake, the labor unions in the United States would love to make things here the same way*.

The message is clear from the French leadership: riot and get your way.

Why anybody cares about what the substandard civilzation of the french thinks I'll never know. And then the Muslims are still overunning them so mabe they french won't be french much longer, their society will die due to its inability to deal strongly with opposition, they always surrender uke:


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