# Could this be happening?



## nitwit (Dec 18, 2004)

Hi all,
I live in eastern North Dakota and have been calling coyotes for about 10 years. For the first several years I would have a coyote or fox come to my calling about once in every 5 or 6 stands - it was great fun. Also for the first several years I would see no sign of other hunters. In the last few years my calling success has dropped off drastically. I still don't see any signs of hunters (tracks on my way to or from stands) but I have noticed that a lot of the field approaches have vehicle tracks in them but no one has gotten out of the vehicles. I'm wondering if people are parking in the approaches, sticking the e-caller out the window and hoping to call one in. If that is happening, I can see where it could be affecting my success. Has anyone see or heard of this happening? 
I certainly don't think that there are any fewer coyotes around.
Thanks,
Nitwit


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

nitwit, lots of things can be happening. I had areas that would produce more coyotes then you would want to kill, all the sudden nothing? Mange and parvo can do a job on a coyote population as can the ADC. Over hunting is probably the biggest problem nowadays, everybody wants to be a predator hunter. In some places there are more coyote hunters then coyotes. Your best bet is to find new areas, maybe go back to your normal places next year and check them out. Good luck


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## cya_coyote (Aug 31, 2005)

nitwit... do you think the calling all coyotes tapes and movies would be such a success if there were not 20 times the guys out there right now? here in kansas i used to know of 3 or 4 guys in the county that hunted coyotes. last year there were farmers around that i have hunted on for YEARS that would not let me hunt because of all the yeahoos that have ruined things wanting to coyote hunt. heard about one guy who got permission to coyote hunt, then proceeded to take his atv through the UNHARVESTED soybean field. needless to say, that farmer will not be giving hunting permission for a while, if ever.

yeah, there are a lot more guys out doing this. and some of them are not caring if they mess it up for the rest of us. last year i ran into 30-40 guys that were calling yotes. usually i might run into 2-3 and know them personally from the fur harvester assoc. we have a lot more company out there now days, and some of them we really don't need.

cya

:sniper:


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Sounds like you have a population problem- coyotes can be called succesfully even in the most overhunted areas, but coyotes cannot be called in where they aren't.

I see a lot of guys talking about hunting pressure these days and everyone seems to think coyote hunting is booming so big it will affect their honey holes. As a general rule I disagree, most coyote hunters never see another caller in the field- some areas in the west are different... but for the most part the overcalling misconception is just an excuse for poor success. I hunt 300 days a year and have yet to meet another coyote hunter in the field. Remember, my "area" is not one county... it's over 55% of our state.

Also, the hunting movies, magazines and websites are often successful because people are NOT out there---- they're on the couch talking and reading about the sport. Predator hunting is full of armchair experts that spend less than 2 days afield each year- don't let that fool you. The internet puts a very interesting twists on predator hunting and until you've hunted with 100-200 of them it's hard to gauge just who is behind the keyboard.


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## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

Jrbhunter said:


> ... but for the most part the overcalling misconception is just an excuse for poor success. .


Sorry Jrbhunter, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this one.All it takes is for a yote to be called in twice to be educated to the call.Maybe in Indiana there arn't to many coyote callers,but here in North Dakota they are like fleas.50% of the times I went out last year I seen other callers,sometimes 3 or 4 different people.I also hunt over 50% of the state,mainly the southwestern and central part of the state.

My reply to the original post would be the good old days of getting a few yotes every time out are over(in North Dakota anyways).There are just that many people out there calling and good luck finding a place that hasn't been called yet.It doesn't help that they are calling year round either.For the people that actually care for the fur ,case em,flesh em ,and stretch em,like any real hunter would do,it sucks for them becuase by the time the fur is prime the yotes are way to educated.Plus by shooting them in the summer when they are raising their pups and someone shoots the folks-you just killed 7 pups back in the den,(seven less pelts for this fall)

Jrbhunter,if you don't think coyotes can get educated,you havn't been calling long enough.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

It has nothing to do with years in the field, although I have my share, but rather research of the animals themselves. Some of the best coyote hunters in the country will tell you a coyote is not capable of being educated. He can develope a conditioned response... but education- no. The day a coyote can rationalize what a call/gun/bullet is we are all in severe trouble as they will certainly crash the Stockmarket shortly afterwards!

This information of a coyote's ignorance comes from research by the finest hunters, trappers and government biologists in the country- not speculation on a website. It's not uncommon to see people online or even in magazines discussing the "Education" of coyotes. This is simply not true, they are not primates that devise tools to open up a coconut- they are K-9's that adapt to situations bestowed upon them.

Understanding and knowing the animals you hunt, their weaknesses and their strengths is a major part of being succesful in harvesting them consistantly. The assumption that a coyote is capable of rational thought and short term education (As opposed to conditioning and responsive manipulation) shows that you have a loose grasp of their capabilities. There is a reason some callers are still succesful in the areas you are singing the blues about.

Take a fawn decoy and place it on a 5' pole in a field full of 6" grass. Call a coyote in and watch him work that fawn just like it's the real thing.... everything in his life experiences tells him a fawn cannot hover over the earth like that yet he will lunge and leap at the elusive floating decoy.

Use a recording of 5 week coyote pups in the middle of December, watch the coyotes respond with aggression toward the invisible newborns. Through their entire lives they've seen pups born in the spring, never during winter, but they will pounce on the opportunity to kill those frosty pups quickly!

A coyote cannot structure logic, even with things he has seen 100 times. His world is very simple, involving things that "Belong" and "Don't belong". A recording of NSYNCH does not belong... but a distressed beaver in the middle of the Arizona Desert seems just fine! Coyotes understand that humans (Defined by them as a scent or unexplained movement) can pose a danger to them but beyond that their grasp of us hunting them is verrrrry vague.

The difference in a coyote that has been called a dozen times and a coyote that has never heard a call is ONLY how he responds. Both will respond- one with less precaution than the other.

Again, if a good hunter is having trouble killing coyotes in an area he did before it means he is low on coyotes... do some scouting and see if the numbers appear to have dropped. Consistantly succesful callers and trappers spend a lot of time in the field during the offseason keeping tabs on these types of things, when a population boom or busts occurs (Due to transience or disease) a hunter should UNDERSTAND and ADJUST quickly to remain succesful. Fortunately I've witnessed several population booms this year so far, and no busts, but when I find a place low on coyote I will quickly strike it from the list!


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Did somebody say armchair predator callers? I use to hunt almost every weekend in either Arizona, California, Nevada or Mexico, use to average 25,000 miles a year chasing coyotes. I've been calling since 64 and been competing in contest hunts since 75. You guys make me uke: lol.

Tell me, who's going to win the Super Bowl? Don't take nothing personal guys, I'm just having fun joking around.  
jrbhunter, you been hanging out at PredatorMasters to long lol :wink:


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## cya_coyote (Aug 31, 2005)

hey guys.. getting too seroius here...

i am not suer if there is a difference between 'educated' and 'conditioned'. either way it means they start to think somethings up when the call starts. call it what you want, it means more difficulty getting the job done. so either word works for me...

yeah, i have read the 'experts' opinions also. and conditioned is learned... used to call that education, right? or are children conditioned in school?

back to the subject... enough callers are in the fields that the yotes are learning to avoid certain situations. it makes the hunting tough, and yes, i agree that some of those videos are being watched by guys who are not hunting... then again, some of us are watching them while cooking, cleaning rifles, reloading.... you get the picture. i am not worried about the 2 day hunters, they will teach a few dogs... i am worried about the other 30-40 callers that i run into during a hunt. the guys who are out every other weekend at least. they are taking the easy to get yotes, and all the extra scent, noise... yes, i think the yotes are learning from all of us. unless you get lucky enough to shoot EVERY ONE that responds to your calls, which i don't think any of us are doing that good. yeah, we get the ones we see, but how many are spooky and stay in the weeds, draws, woods... etc.

so call it educated, conditioned, schooling, or religion for that matter... they do have brains, and when they don't respond it don't matter what you call it.

cya

:sniper:


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## skinner (Jul 25, 2006)

I think that we all sometimes will us the word educated I Know that I have and I will again it is a word that I use to discribe how the coyote is acting If it is being overly carefull on it aproach i will say that it has been educated does it mean it has been called before maybe not maybe it was it just my way of explaining the behavior. others may do the same thing.
Now in my area the hunting of predators as gone skyhigh their are more people out in the field trying to call them in. I have run in to many of them in the field and I can say that they just like us at first were not the best, they don't practise noise control they will make mistakes, which inter makes it a little more of a challenge to call in those coyotes that got away.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Cya, if you've read many studies on coyotes and coyote behavior they haven't soaked in yet. The difference in education and conditioning makes all the difference in succesful coyote hunting amongst calling pressure- so long as this is fuzzy your potential is limited. If you whip your son five days in a row for saying a potty word he will probably begin flinching when he says a potty word and sees you raise your hand. The concept of long division and calculating triginometry is not conditioned into his brain... it is taught using memory, logic and rationality.... something a coyote lacks. Don't raise your hand- use a swift kick in the tooshy to punish that child and he'll never see it coming. Get my drift?

Sure it seems like we're splitting hairs here, but once one understands the difference and has a good handle on the capabilities of a coyote he can consistantly manipulate their simple minds. People sometimes have "Great Expectations" of coyotes and they allow their own misunderstandings to limit success. I often put myself and my pardners in situations where we can be seen and smelled by incoming coyotes... we kill coyotes this way not because their sences were inferior- rather they chose to ignore them.

For every strength a coyote carries he has an equal weakness... just like the hunter calling him. A closed mind is the greatest weakness a caller can have!

DannyB- I haven't been to that site in years, seems it's crumbling down around them these days. Every serious caller I know has been banned or resigned from that place, guess there is no room for experience in their marketing stratagy. Enough of your old sob story- you're hunting those dumb Southwestern coyotes anyways!  Also- I put 5,100 miles on last month... at 14mpg.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

PS- I would like to add that I've heard calling in Nevada is a mess because of all the arial gunning, government trappers and snipers that patrol those coyotes regularly. They are again conditioned- not educated- but the all out assault on that population has made it difficult for some of the most dedicated callers to convince a coyote to come out. They probably focus more on plant matter, roadkills and garbage cans rather than actually hunting small game- a change like that will definately make it tough on hunters!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> hey guys.. getting too seroius here...


I agree with you on that.

I think way to much is made on the vocabulary here. Of course coyotes are not educated in the intellectual sense, but they are not vegetables either. 
When I started calling in the late 1950's there were no coyotes around here. The fox population was good though, and many times three and four would come in, and they would come to spitting distance. Here in North Dakota I didn't see many other callers until fox hit $70 somewhere around the late 1970'. Perhaps wrong on that date, but somewhere around there.
After a few years of poor setups, poor calling, and bad shooting the fox didn't respond as well anymore. No, the mange was not here yet, not even close. Trap success remained as it always had, but call success went down. You always have to stay one jump ahead of the other hunters and so something they don't. 
Still, after all these years I screw up. What makes me angry is I sometimes pick less than perfect stands, and I know it. You can't cut corners.
Coyotes may not rationalize, but pinch their toes, and they learn to avoid that type of trap set up. Call them with a rabbit in distress and miss them and chances are they will be very cautious with the next rabbit in distress call. It doesn't matter if it was an education or a learned response like Pavlov's dog it happens. 
Of course you can still do ok where other hunters are at, but you need to do something different. 
Your right this is more serious than necessary, after all it's not life or death, and certainly doesn't require being offensive. I have called for 45 years, yet I can learn something from a fellow who has only called for five. That is the beauty of this site. At the same time I don't expect someone who has called for a year to know everything, but it doesn't offend me when they don't. Lighten up a little, life is short.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Plainsman, I don't see anyone being overly serious here much less offensive. I personally take every online conversation with a grain of salt, perhaps you read too much into what someone writes? You're somehow hung up on the vocabulary term- which means you aren't reading entire post.

Plainsman you are discussing the remedy (Techniques), I was merely outlining the symptoms. There are ways around the conditioning of our quary but if the original poster has killed that many coyotes... for as long as he said... he surely knows the ropes of adapting with K-9's. I continue to believe he is suffering from a population glitch. Undoubtably other hunters have had some impact- they always do- but I believe it's a reach to say every coyote out there is now so smart he can't kill them.

Sometimes hunters complicate simple matters, sometimes they simplify complicated matters. The abilities of a coyotes gray matter are often tossed one way or another in that debate... but those with a good grasp on what he CAN do and CAN'T do remain consistant.

The trouble is, "Coyote Education" is a common excuse for those who see thier numbers dropping and therefor my stance of documented knowledge is unpopular. No matter how valid their excuse may be... they sometimes close their minds and start a war chant against anyone who claims to remain succesful. I'm not trying to be a villan here but I refuse to throw my hands up with the masses and say we've uncovered another batch of honor roll predators- I have more faith in the abilities of our man than that. He can overcome a little calling pressure... but is he up against Parvo/Mange/Heartworm?


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## skinner (Jul 25, 2006)

Well their is some kind of truth to the fact that their are GT working the state but they are only out hot and heavy when someone complains about lossing their kitty or puppy. as for the snipers I guess you could call me one of those I work for several ranchers on a regular bases taking care of pesty coyotes. between the GT and us snipers their are a heck of a lot more coyotes to go around  but don't let that out because more people will start hunting them :-? 
heck the state of Nev is not a bad place to hunt coyotes it a losely place to play the slot machines they will take your money and not even give you a good bye kiss after words


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Plainsman, I'm only joking with people just having fun I'm not serious at all, I even stated that on my post. 
The big problem with the internet is you're talking to a screen, it don't have a face so you can't see a persons reaction. 
I've been coming to these predator hunting forums since they were first on the internet. I've learned to try and help the new guys and just have fun. 
I thought the puke emoticon was funny and was trying to make people laugh, I guess you didn't think it was funny, sorry.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Maybe I took you guys a little to serious. I thought you were putting the new guy down. We don't want to chase people off. With the anti's on our rear we need every hunter we can get on our side.
Your more than likely right about the population being the problem. However, the caution derived from experience is part of the equation also. I remember the few I missed right around our house and soil bank (much like CRP today). They would come in again if you were hidden very good and willing to wait longer. They would come in much faster if you used a different call. One interesting thing is they would come in with little caution if you could also fool the Magpies. Of course you had to be buried in tumbleweeds or something so the Magpies didn't see you. Now I often play a Magpie tape while I use my mouth call. 
Good to hear you guys were just having fun. Sorry to misunderstand you. I'm happy you posted an explanation so the new fellow understands too.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I don't think anyone is talking about honor roll predators or at least none that I've seen. In my opinion when someone says that a animal cannot be education they have simply conditioned themselves to not accept the thought that a animal can be educated. :wink: When I see a female predator out with her young and the young are hanging in the background watching while mama is hunting, I suspect mama is educating those young, not conditioning them. I have see coyotes that will hang up well out of range when a certain call is used. For example a dying cottontail sound. But that same dog will come barreling in at a hard run when a real rabbit gives off that same cry. Is that conditioning or has the coyote been educated to be able to tell the difference. But as someone already said, educating or conditioning, it doesn't really matter as the end result is the same isn't it. I guess the bottom line is that for someone to say to the OP, that for the most part the overcalling misconception is just an excuse for poor success, when the OP was only describing conditions he has personally observed, is a tad unfair, especially since he is give first hand knowledge and the rebuttal is.... well.... armchair counseling.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Glad we got that straightened out Plainsman. You're really starting to chisel at the ways around finicky coyotes- birds and ambient noise are a big help!

Gohon, go back and read the thread in it's entirety and see if you feel like your last post has any pertinance in this discussion. We've gone over the difference beyond vocabulary terms. I explained very well why people use calling pressure as an excuse and stated that the poster in this thread is obviously succesful enough to press on- I never ridiculed him or anyone else in this thread, just calling out a truth about many predator hunters in the US. A mother hunting with her pups results in impressionism (See imprinting)- again if you can't grasp the difference in terminology I apologize.

Gohon you must be proud of witnessing an animal ignore a call then chase down and kill the real thing... right before your very eyes. That is documentary type stuff- things the FWS and USDA have been trying to capture for years to document in their studies. I love watchin guys argue with facts documented by teams of scientists over the course of 10 years in 20 states with hundreds of radio collared animals, cameras on denning sights, genetic and forensic studies of selected specimens. And to think a phone call to Oklahoma would've turned all their findings upside down! LOL


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Jrbhunter, I don't know why you want to argue with every person that has posted a comment in this thread. I was simply stating my opinion the same as you, and like you said you take opinions on forums with a grain of salt.......... that includes yours now doesn't it. Just like your 5,100 miles last month comment which meant you drove an average of 170 miles every day provide you were out in the field all 30 days. Didn't leave much time for setting up and shooting did it. Especially since you spent several days last month on this forum. Yeah, sometimes several grains of salt is a good idea Actually you need to go back and read a little. I never said I saw a coyote ignore a call then turn around and chase down the real thing at one sitting. But I did see the same animal hang up during a call and a few weeks later witnessed that same animal make a kill on it's own of the same animal being imitated. For you to imply that didn't happen just shows your conditioned mind.

I saw in another thread where you made this comment.... "*I have a dozen hunting buddies that have used the other units for years... I call more dogs on their properties in two days with the WT than they have all season with the other unit. Consistantly*". That subject was about different brands of E-callers but I wonder if when you buddies commented that nothing was coming in to their calls if you told them they had a population problem. Different thread, different subject but same situation as the OP in this thread but funny how it wasn't a population problem for your buddies but instead your superior calling skills with your superior e-caller.

I now realize just where you are actually coming from as you have bought into these teams of so called scientist that you so highly praise. I can only suspect these are the same one's that on a routine basis screw up more than they help. These are the one's that like yourself refuse to listen to hunters in the field that have first hand experience on the subject. These are the so called experts that have brain washed people like yourself into thinking you are far above anyone else on the subject. I think people like Randy Anderson, Gearld Stewart, Al Morris and many others that have more experience than you will ever attain would be laughing their *** off if they read your posts. Yeah I know&#8230;.. they sell videos so they can't be trusted right. Yes, whether you meant to or not you did cut the OP down as you implied that he didn't know what he was doing and he was making a excuse to cover being a poor hunter.

I was not and am not going to argue with such a great person of predator hunting as yourself in this thread, as you have shown that you consider yourself the only person knowledgeable on the subject or allowed to have a opinion. I certainly have never claimed to be a expert nor would I ever but I do know what I have witnessed and experienced as does the other people in this thread. Your attempt to cut down or punch holes in every single post by every person in this thread shows me just who is the armchair expert.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Well gezzz Gohon, I know Gearld Stewart personally, one heck of a great guy. I think Gearld is in his early 50s now and he probably started predator calling with his dad in the early 60s. 
Gearld probably forgot more then most people know about predator hunting. The other two you named I would not put in the same class as Gearld.

As far as Randy Anderson goes, nobody ever heard of him untill maybe 10 years ago or so, I think he can thank Primos for his fame.

Al Morris won the World Calling Championship once I believe, other then that nobody ever heard of him either untill just a few years ago.

I'm sure Randy Anderson and Al Morris are great guys and I have nothing against either, but to put them in the same class as people like Gearld Stewart or say Murray Burnham, Gerry Blair and others, I think not.

Matter of fact I was at the first Predator Callers Hall Of Fame get together in Silver City NM in 04. 
Only 3 living predator hunters were inducted, Murray, Gearld and Gerry. No mention of Randy or Al.

This is just my opinion, so nobody get upset OK lol.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Well Danny, the only reason I mentioned Stewart and the others is because in his last two Operation Predator videos Stewart mentions educating coyotes by over or bad calling. Now according old Jrb that is hog wash coming from them other predator hunters. My point is I will take Stewarts word anytime over this self imposed expert. I might have got a little long winded in my last post but this guy has implied at the very least that everyone in this thread knows nothing, almost to the point to suggest most are simply liars. I know he said that about me and I take offense to that.


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## cya_coyote (Aug 31, 2005)

well guys... i am going to get out of this post. i evidently know nothing about predator hunting, or my quarry. i have been hunting them for 20+ years, but i guess i know nothing about them.

since jrb is the expert, i will let him talk about all the 'expert' opinions from the biologists, most of which don't know one end of a coyote from the other. the same ones who say there are no cougar in kansas, even when one was shot out here, as well as several hit by vehicles in the last few years.

sorry, but the biologists study animals by the book, but i have not seen coyotes that could read... they don't know what they should be doing.

later

:sniper:


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Ok guys, take it easy. All of us have an opinion, some of us may not like it but we all have a right to voice it. 
Don't worry about an expert being here in this forum, because there simply is no such a thing in predator hunting. 
I don't think jrbhunter is trying to over power anyone with his knowledge, I think he is just voicing his opinion, maybe I'm wrong but I hope not. Anyway, you guys can see how a thred can get out of control. 
See what you started nitwit lol. Now lets all hug and start all over again :beer: :wink:


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Gohon, you really are grasping at straws and obviously still haven't read the entire thread as you harp on things I've clarified previously. Also it is quite obvious you don't know me and my profession very well- I literally had tears in my eyes when I read your last post about milage and stands. It's tempting to compare kills from my last week and your last season... but I digress. No harm done.

There is a big difference in the quality of equipment out there on the market... better equipment plays right into the equation that Plainsman has chiseled away at. Setups, approach, scouting, equipment, sounds and many other things can make this hunter more succesful- I feel he (NITWIT) knows this about calling coyotes or he wouldn't have had the success in the past. That's why I contribute his problems to population.

Randy Anderson is no coyote expert, he comes across as a nice guy that lives in a target rich environment. Randy probably knows more about coyotes than I do and is still nice in person, but behind the scenes he has caused some headaches for a friend of mine named Dan Thompson. Dan is a wealth of knowledge and taught Randy a ton about calling coyotes (much like myself) but he wasn't treated fairly once Randy hit it big (See Primos Fiasco). I love it when people refer to Randy as a coyote expert because it really shows where the predator hunting world is headed... a nice guy that can kill 50 a year takes presidence over the 5,000 a year guy (And yes they exists).

Gerald Stewart is a nice guy as well, he's not the coyote hunter his father was and I don't place him high on the pure "Coyote Knowledge" list either. He is much more "in tune" with predators and hunting than Mike Dillon but he still subscribes to ideology that sells units- not necessarily what kills coyotes.

I consider myself lucky to spend time in the field and in person with some of the most respected callers living today- guys with credibility and experience you cannot grasp. I've filmed hunts, worked on demos and written articles with guys that kill more fur in a year than most do in a lifetime. I don't place myself amongst them- but I kill fur... and I know what credible advice looks like.

If you watch the Mens Channel much you've probably seen my smiling face half a dozen times with monster whitetails... does THAT make me a credibile source? Nawww... just a guy that has a little talent and runs a couple premier guiding services. Don't wrap your credibility up in movie stars, that really is quite laughable considering who you are trying to attack.

I have not attacked anyone- no matter how it is percieved- it was not my intention. The information that I post is partially my opinion... partially documented fact that is accepted and developed by the best coyote men in the business. Refute it if you want, ignore if it you must, I hold no personal connection to it... I wouldn't give advice with anything other than the best of intentions.


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## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

Jrbhunter said:


> a nice guy that can kill 50 a year takes presidence over the 5,000 a year guy (And yes they exists).
> .


I wasn't going to chime in anymore,but when I seen this I had to.Am I reading this right-there are guys out there getting 5,000 yotes a year?Give me a break!!


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Hahaha I love it. If it's something you didn't already know, it must be a lie! What a way to live.

DannyB, do you know my famous trapping buddy from Indiana? Speaking of hall of fame... and 5,000 dog years...


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## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

I knew you were full of BS.  I meant that in a friendly way


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Sorry Boondocks- I edited that post real quick on ya! Didn't think anyone had time to see it first! LOL!

I am serious though... there are guys killing thousands of coyotes in a single season. With rifles, traps and all sorts of crazy methods- it's their job. Denning and gunning whipe out massive numbers in a single day but there are trappers out there that really dent the population too. I have friends in the business of anhialating coyotes- I'd say Danny knows one or two of them.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I know some animal damage control guys that kill many in a year. We are talking rifle, trap, poison in some cases, and aerial gunning. These guys hunt coyotes nearly every day. It's their job. If anyone can come close to them they have to be independently wealthy so they don't need to work. However, shooting this many coyotes turns the job into work and no fun. I guess the guy that comes to my mind is Merv Griswold. I like the video he did with E.L.K. called Dogging Coyotes, now that looks like fun. 
I would guess there are some guys out there that shoot 20 to 30 coyotes a year that are very good. It's just that their jobs will not allow them the time to take more. I am a little rusty at it, but after retirement I hope these old legs will carry me a ways from the roads, and I hope old age will make me wise enough to forget about the shortcuts that always goof me up. Isn't 20/20 hindsight irritating?
Nitwit here is something for you to try. Some say that cautious coyotes will not come into the open. That is true close to roads, but if you get away from the roads there is another angle to this. If you wear really good camo and lay in the open you may be surprised. In wide open places it looks like nothing dangerous can hide. You may have a population problem, or you may have wary coyotes. Try something different to see which is the problem. Also, try a confidence decoy. Everyone uses something they think a coyote wants to eat. Remember I said think different. Try a crow, or a horned owl decoy. A decoy of a wary animal will give the coyote confidence. I have been trying to find a crow kite. Good hunting to you.

Oh, nitwit do you carve at all? If you do two or three magpies work very well. PM me if you can make some decoys and I will email you digital magpie calls.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Jrb, can't say I know that guy, maybe I've heard of em? I'm a predator hunter, I'm not a trapper or ADC guy.

I call em in and sometimes kill em, sometimes I let em go. I've killed so many over the last 43 years it don't matter anymore, I have nothing to prove. I just like trying to help others have some of the fun I've had.

I don't do it for the money, I do it for the love of the sport. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with making a few bucks doing what you like to do.

Like I said I have nothing to prove. I could mention some predator hunting stats and things I've done over the years that would make Randy Anderson look like a new guy on the block lol....But why? I don't have to prove nothing.

Us older guys that know what's going on need to help the newer guys and gals, that's what these forums are all about, don't you agree? :beer:


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Yes I certainly agree. I don't know anyone that uses these forums as a one way street... to push their own superiority on anyone else. I personally love these discussions (Even the heated ones) becuase it usually drags one or two guys to the surface that have some different experiences or research than I do. Conflicting results from using a tactic are what make it better in the long run... like calling crosswind/downwind/upwind. One guy has had great luck his way, another wonderful luck his way... a combination of the two may be the ticket if the two are open minded enough to conglomerate.

ADC work and professional hunters/trappers are very interesting to me because of the sheer volume of their experiences. For instance, I used to think I knew how to put down a wounded coyote until I spoke with a guy that knocked over one thousand a year by hand. I quicky absorbed his method and it works well today... but maybe someone out there is killing 5,000 by hand (via traps and denning) and has developed a quicker cleaner way. I'm all ears- that's what makes the internet fun to me.


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