# Muzzleloader - Who?



## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

How many of you guys use a muzzleloader?

I would be interested in some of your tips for shooting, bags, bullets, etc... Any tip always makes things interesting. :wink:


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

Nobody? :-?


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## magnum3.5 (Sep 19, 2003)

Deltaboy, smokepole shooting is one of my new found past times. I have a cva staghorn. Nothing fancy I shoot 3 50 grain triple 7 pellets with a 295 grain powerbelt bullet. It shoots well. I can get 5 shots in 4 inches which is good enough for me. I sighted it in at 100 and is good to about 130 to 140. I have not shot it at 200 to see what the drop is but I am not interested in shooting at a deer further than 100 anyway. Far as a bag I just use a bull bag filled with field peas. I am kinda of new to the sport myself but, I have taken 2 deer with the smokepole. It's a hoot when you shoot and have to wait for the smoke to clear to see if you actually hit the deer. Magnum3.5


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## Cambo (Oct 2, 2005)

DeltaBoy said:


> Nobody? :-?


Wait... Wait... I just found your post.

I can tell you some stuff, I've been at it for about 30 years, If I can't answer your questions it's probably because I forgot the answers, any way I'm not the kind that makes things up. I have made about a dozen black powders, all flinters circa in the 1750's range. What do you want to know?? If you want my advice as to shooting bags and such, my answers will be strictly 1700's, nothing modern. I know one thing, the 1700's hunter carried alot less junk than the modern black powder dude does. I stay away from modern (want to be) black powders like the plague. I won't even touch an inline due to the fact that I might catch something. I would rather shoot at them. The sad truth however is that hunting these days are pretty much run by big business for the almighty dollar, and most traditionalist are dirt poor, or working at it.

There, If this doesn't start something I don't know what will!! :wink:


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## Danimal (Sep 9, 2005)

I just found your post too,....

I've been shooting smokepoles for about 10 years now starting w/ a flinter, then caplock and now an in-line and still own all three, just don't tell my wife....

Everyone has been fun to shoot/hunt with for different reasons. The flinter is a Lyman Great Plains .54 cal with open sights. With a 32 inch barrel it's a beautiful rifle, and after tweaking the touch hole, very reliable. At about 9-10 pounds, recoil is mild (with 100 gr of FFg and a 425 gr. Great Plains bullet.

The caplock is a .54 cal CVA Bobcat, at under 6 pounds it is great to carry around the mountains. At under 6 pounds the recoil with 80 grains of FFg and the same 425 grain bullet is,....not as mild.

The In-line is a Winchester Apex .50 cal. Shooting 130 grains of Triple 7 and a 200 grain T/C shockwave, sighted in to shoot 2.75-3 inches high at 100 yards, it is dead on at 200 yards. Recoil is much more than the flinter. By far the easiest to clean with a removable breech plug.

So after shooting real BP and 777, here is what I've learned.

1. BP burns a lot slower so recoil is more of a shove instead of a fast 
kick. The opposite is true of 777.
2. The fouling from BP is from breach to muzzle, whereas shooting 
the 777 pellets, there is a lot less fouling. BUT 95% of the fouling
is about 2 inches above the breech in a ring.
3. Both BP and 777 is easy to clean, but the 777 is much easier.
4. Every gun will shoot differently with each bullet/powder combo, so
you have to spend some range time....oh darn a reason to go
shooting....
5. Save money and do not buy precut shooting(lubed) patches, but
buy a 1/2 yard of pillow ticking at walmart and cut I cut my own.
Melt some NL Borebutter in the microwave and dip the patches to
lube them, place them in a sandwich bag for later use.

With all of that said, I have a bunch of accesories for MLing. I think I have 4 ball starters, one t/c T handled one that I use as a mallet to drive out the wedge pins. The powerbelt starter that is great with the poly-tipped bullets. My favorite is one that I made on a lathe, the round handle is locust and the two shafts are oak, stained and then waxed.

I currently use a Remingting possibles bag (walmart from about 10 years ago), but may make my own one day. The ball starter pouch may or may not hold the starter, depending on which one I use.

What I learned about cleaning (the .54 cal's with BP)
1. Save money and do not but pre-cut cleaning patches. Again, go 
to walmart and buy a yard of white 10 oz. duck cloth. This is 
thicker than the precut patches.
2. I use a .50 cal jag and the thicker patches to clean the .54 cal 
rifles. DO NOT EVER TRY (again) to use a .54 cal jag with the 
thicker patches.

What I learned about the in-line and 777...
1. Even though it is much cleaner than BP, run one damp and one
dry patch between shots. This helped the loading and accuracy.
2. EVEN THOUGH THE 777 burns cleaner,....pull the breech plug
every 8 shots or so and clean. (I learned the hard way by
waiting until after 15 shot and had trouble getting it out)

I could go on, but my boss just walked by.... If you have any questions, shoot them over!! Hope this helps.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

I've been muzzleloading since 1980. I currently have 2, a Thompson Center Hawken caplock that I built from a kit back in the early 80's and a Thompson Center inline Thunderhawk.

First the Hawken. This rifle has a custom barrel that has a 1 in 66" twist and is suited to using round balls. I make my own, 50 cal, diameter .495, I use a .010 thickness pillowticking patch lubed with Thompson Center Natural Lube Bore Butter. My deer load is 90 grains of 'P' Pyrodex, then a wad of wasp nest and then the patched roundball, the wasp nest keeps the lube from contaminating the powder. Allthough I have a leather possibles bag as well as a leather ball bag, I don't use either of them while hunting with this rifle. I have a 1/2 dozen Butler Creek speed loaders that I preload and carry in my pocket along with an inline capper and a short starter.

The Thunderhawk. Though this is a modern in-line I love it. I use 240 grain Hornady XTP bullet/sabot combo with a charge of 110 grains of Pyrodex Select. This is loaded into a Thomson Center 4-in1 speed loader, I carry 6 in my pocket. This speed loader has a built in short starter.

I use #11 percussion caps on both rifles. I clean both with hot water and dish soap. Both are lubed with the T/C Bore Butter. Remember to run a couple of dry patches and fire off a few caps before you load for hunting.

Now to Cambo's post.



> I know one thing, the 1700's hunter carried alot less junk than the modern black powder dude does.


This is largly because the 1700's hunter had a lot less "junk" available to him. If one of those guys would see the improvements in equipment today he would be like a kid in a candy store. And this would include snapping up one of the modern in-lines and tossing his old beat up flinter in the trash can. Those guys were innovators and knew good equipment when they saw it. They were concerned with function and reliability, not romantically playing Daniel Boone in the woods.



> I stay away from modern (want to be) black powders like the plague.


Good for you, that leaves more Pyrodex for me. 



> I won't even touch an inline due to the fact that I might catch something. I would rather shoot at them.


After shooting a flinter, I have the same feelings for them. :evil:



> The sad truth however is that hunting these days are pretty much run by big business for the almighty dollar,


Perhaps true, but I for one see it from a different perspective. The modern equipment makes it easier to get into the sport of muzzleloading. Over the years I have watched a few people get started on a cheap in-line, graduate to a side lock percussion, then either a flint or a cutom made percussion replica. Most of these will admidt that they probably would not be involved in the sport had it not been easy to get started in the first place.



> most traditionalist are dirt poor


This is just plain BS, a traditional muzzleloader, or a custom made replica will cost several times as much as a well made modern in-line. Throw in all the traditional clothing and other stuff and the "average" traditionalist spends way more on their equipment than I have spent on all of mine for both rifles. 
And as evidenced by your post , Cambo, you are upholding the traditionalist, elitist attitude. I recall the the first year I competed with the muzzleloader. A friend and I had just completed our Hawkens in time to attend 2, a Levi Garrett invitational, and a State muzzleloader shoot. We took first and second in both. The next year we were not allowed to compete unless we did so in "traditional" clothing. I still think they were just upset that the 2 greenhorns beat their pants off.  

huntin1


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## Cambo (Oct 2, 2005)

(quote)<This is largly because the 1700's hunter had a lot less "junk" available to him. If one of those guys would see the improvements in equipment today he would be like a kid in a candy store and this would include snapping up one of the modern in-lines and tossing his old beat up flinter in the trash can. Those guys were innovators and knew good equipment when they saw it. They were concerned with function and reliability, not romantically playing Daniel Boone in the woods.>

*In reality, the hunters of the 1700's didn't carry junk, they threw it in that trash can. Remember their vehicles were either a horse, canoe or their two feet. 
They were dealing with the 1700's not in "if's". That old beat up Flinter you refer to was the hi-tech of the day. Infact there isn't an over-the-counter flintlock made today that is the quality of what was concidered a quality gun made in the mid 1700's. What they carried was the best that was avalable, the best they could afford or the best they could make. I make custom Rifles & trade guns, I also make some of my own locks. If I buy a quality lock such as L&R or Egg etc. I will still need to put in about 2 days of tuning and resoleing if necessary. No piece of equipment then or now was or is perfect, but the gunsmith of the 1700's needed to make the very best or he would be getting into a differant line of work. Yes, they were very concerned with function and reliability. *

(quote)<Good for you, that leaves more Pyrodex for me.>

*Pyrodex doesn't work well in a flinter so I would suppose it would have ended up in that same trash can. *

The sad truth however is that hunting these days are pretty much run by big business for the almighty dollar,

(quote)Perhaps true, but I for one see it from a different perspective. The modern equipment makes it easier to get into the sport of muzzleloading. Over the years I have watched a few people get started on a cheap in-line, graduate to a side lock percussion, then either a flint or a cutom made percussion replica. Most of these will admidt that they probably would not be involved in the sport had it not been easy to get started in the first place.

*I for one have a hard time seeing an in-line as a muzzleloader at all. ya, I know it's loaded from the muzzle,,,, after that it all goes south. the big companies want them all to look like model 70's. Taking this into account, why don't in-liners just hunt the reg. rifle season!! Oh, I know, so the inliner's can pay for an extra season. My opinion is that the true treditional hunters should be able to hunt the same time as the bow hunters, in proper athentic gear. This won't happen now that the inliners are mixed up in this mess, maybe this is for the best, put I doult it.*

Most traditionalist are dirt poor

Quote<This is just plain BS, a traditional muzzleloader, or a custom made replica will cost several times as much as a well made modern in-line. Throw in all the traditional clothing and other stuff and the "average" traditionalist spends way more on their equipment than I have spent on all of mine for both rifles.>

*Yaaaa, That is why they are dirt poor!! Everyone in our group has to have a 1700 skill so we deal mostly in barter or making our own. *

Quote<As evidenced by your post , Cambo, you are upholding the traditionalist, elitist attitude. I recall the the first year I competed with the muzzleloader. A friend and I had just completed our Hawkens in time to attend 2, a Levi Garrett invitational, and a State muzzleloader shoot. We took first and second in both. The next year we were not allowed to compete unless we did so in "traditional" clothing. I still think they were just upset that the 2 greenhorns beat their pants off.

*Most shoots are rated Primitive, semi or open. Either you were truly dressed wrong or they were truly jerks. In the shoots that I have organized, the type of shoot was stated on the flyer just so some people won't show up in T-shirts and sandles and be turned down like you were.*

*I guess where we are now is that we are both right, accordingly to were we are in the sport. I respect your outlook, I hope you respect mine.
FYI I have been in this hobbie/life style for about 35 years and I kind of like runninig around in the woods like Daniel Boone.  :beer:*


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Cambo,

I do indeed respect where you are in the sport. What I was trying to get across is that not everyone has the desire to go whole hog into the traditionalist thing, some guys like shooting their inlines, I do, I also get a kick out of running around the woods with my Hawken, possibles bag and Green River knife, but I realize that it's not for everyone. I just don't like to discourage people from getting started in this sport because they want to shoot an inline, as I stated before, more often than not they will "graduate" to a more traditional muzzleloader once they are bitten by the bug. 

:beer:

huntin1


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