# War on cops



## Plainsman

Even though this could become political I decided to leave the political aspects out so that I could make everyone aware of it. It is sure to become political and I will move it then. I want to start it in open form so those who even shirk their responsibility to vote will see it.

Headlines on Drudge today:



> DE BLAMEIO: For Mayor, Attack Comes Amid Tension Over Police...





> NYPD members SHUN...





> Sharpton scrambles...





> Killer's INSTAGRAM threat: 'I'm putting wings on pigs today'...





> 'They take 1 of ours, let's take 2 of theirs'...





> People Take To TWITTER To Celebrate...





> Connection To Baltimore Gang 'Black Guerilla Family?'





> NYC TORN APART...





> PROTEST FLASHBACK: 'WHAT DO WE WANT? DEAD COPS!'





> GUNMAN EXECUTES 2 NYPD COPS AS 'REVENGE'


This is just the tip of the iceberg, and it's going to get worse. It's obvious now, but we have been going that direction for a long time. There are those who will do anything to get the money you have earned, and there are those who will do anything to earn a buck. Both extremes are getting out of hand.


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## north1

You know, I am really getting sick and tired of this I consider myself a very tolerant and fair person regardless of race, religion, political affiliation, you name it. Now this incident is being blamed on guns. So, if a police officer kills someone in the line of duty, it is racism. If a police officer or officers' are killed in the line of duty, it is guns. Never discussion of the root causes for either incident. No one saying they have to look in the mirror and realize changes have to be made on all sides. This always the victim mentality is just serving to turn away those of us who take responsibility for our actions and own up to simple facts in our own lives and culture. I really do not see it ever changing as long as the always victim mentality is pervasive, and the political objective of give me this for free continues. Dependence on government or state is not a necessary evil, it is simply evil. Our fore fathers realized this, but sadly we have undermined a lot of what they created. Slippery slope I would say, and picking up speed.


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## alleyyooper

Ambushed my ====== == I spent time in Viet Nam and know what a real ambush is. This was plain and simple inattentive cops allowing some one to walk up to the car and shooting them.
I know where I stand.
I agree with the comment of those people trying to get every buck you earn. Was a news show about home less people in my state. Told th3e wife is crazy some make so much money in one year they could not spend it all in a life time yet they try to get more and more. Then there are those who don't have two pennies to rub together and never will have.

 Al


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## Plainsman

> Ambushed my ====== == I spent time in Viet Nam and know what a real ambush is. This was plain and simple inattentive cops allowing some one to walk up to the car and shooting them.


Ambush is sort of how I bow hunted for years. Hide along the trail and wait for them to come past. Maybe the cop shooting was more like spot and stalk. Different terminology I guess, but it doesn't change reality.



> I agree with the comment of those people trying to get every buck you earn. Was a news show about home less people in my state.


I have always found the homeless problem confusing. I have been in many of the large cities, including Washington D. C. and observed the homeless. I don't think there is a single answer as to why we have homeless. Some have had some bad breaks, but often it's drugs, and some are to lazy to work. For many it's a way of life they have chosen. In Washington many people were giving money to vets. Then at the Memorial Wall it hit me. Viet Nam was over in the early 1970's, and many of the guys with signs that said homeless Viet Nam Vet were only 20 years old, and this was in 1995. 
One fellow in Washington was on 60 minutes years ago. Yup, he is homeless in Washington, but in 1990 he had a half million dollar home in Florida where he wintered like a king. The year he was on 60 minutes he begged $270K. His fame was a beggar making over a quarter of a million a year.



> Told th3e wife is crazy some make so much money in one year they could not spend it all in a life time yet they try to get more and more.


Actually isn't that good? You don't get a job from a man that's broke. How many jobs do people have because of Bill Gates?



> Then there are those who don't have two pennies to rub together and never will have.


I understand. As a child my mother could pinch pennies until Abe had tears in his eyes. Still, I didn't hold any animosity against the rich. Not even the bank that held the papers on our farm and all of our cattle. We had a great crop of flax one year and had never heard of flax blight. It wiped us out. However, bad luck was not the fault of the bank. Farming was different then, you could actually fail.

As far as rich/poor/homeless/welfare etc I always ask myself this question: "who is the more greedy, the person who wants to keep the money he earns, or the one who wants to take the money he doesn't earn"?
Killing police isn't rich or poor, it isn't minority or majority, it isn't political, it's simply criminal.


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## huntin1

alleyyooper said:


> Ambushed my ====== == I spent time in Viet Nam and know what a real ambush is. This was plain and simple inattentive cops allowing some one to walk up to the car and shooting them.
> I know where I stand.
> I agree with the comment of those people trying to get every buck you earn. Was a news show about home less people in my state. Told th3e wife is crazy some make so much money in one year they could not spend it all in a life time yet they try to get more and more. Then there are those who don't have two pennies to rub together and never will have.
> 
> Al


Well the jungles of Viet Nam and the military are not the same as police officers on the city streets. Different ROE's, different threats.

Since I wasn't there I won't be so bold as to say it was purely inattentiveness on the part of the officers. But, they were working a special task force in a high crime area, situational awareness is everything. As to the media calling it an ambush, I've never known the media to use the correct terminology in any given situation. This was more of a straight out execution than an ambush.


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## huntin1

> Yes bad people are out there but seems more and more of the bad people are Cops.The outcry is to get the "Cop Killer" but seems when cops kill nothing is done.


Care to offer any evidence? Other than opinion, I mean.


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## huntin1

DuckDawg said:


> huntin1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes bad people are out there but seems more and more of the bad people are Cops.The outcry is to get the "Cop Killer" but seems when cops kill nothing is done.
> 
> 
> 
> Care to offer any evidence? Other than opinion, I mean.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apparently you do not read the news! or are you suggesting that Americans are just plain evil? The idea to "protect and serve" has long since vanished with today's cop. Some good cops out there....but the bad ones are not weeded out as they should be. READ and don't keep you head in the sand.
Click to expand...

As I suspected, you have no evidence to back up what you are saying. What do you do for a living? You know for a fact that bad cops do not get weeded out as you put it, or that the basic premise of protect and serve no longer exists for the police officer today? How long have you worked in, or studied law enforcement?

My head is far from being in the sand and I read the news, just not the hate filled propaganda that you apparently get your information from.


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## Plainsman

> I won't even go onto NY were how many cops watch another cop choke a kid to death for cigarettes. A frickin pack of untaxed cigarettes you kill a kid by choking him to death while 8 other cops watch. WTF?
> DuckDawg


Your not making an honest debate DuckDawg. You know very well the man who died was not a kid. The guy had been arrested for this before, and if he had not resisted arrest he would be breathing today. The tactic you displayed is the same thing the media did with Trayvon Martin. They showed pictures of him at ten, eleven, and twelve years old. They also liked to call Michael Brown the gentle giant. Only the police released the video of his strong arm robbery.

DuckDawg how much do you know about organized crime? I don't know much either, but I do know one of their favorite targets is whole semi truckloads of cigarettes. You would think they would go after banks and armored cars, but no they also take what can be easily sold. Booze and cigarettes are targets. Did you know that Eric Gardner was linked to organized crime?

I am always amazed that armchair coroners are better than the professionals. I guess it's like armchair biologists knowing better than the professionals they hire. In the case of Gardner the medical examiner testified that Gardner was not choked. That's the problem with the untrained eye as a witness. When your 160 pounds and your going to take someone down that is 300 pounds and handcuff them how do you do it? Law enforcement people practice techniques on each other, the same technique they used on Gardner. Unless you interlock your arms and put pressure on the frontal area of the throat your not going to choke anyone. Medical examiners spot strangulations instantly. A real choke hold will cause much of that same telltale damage.

When we watch cop shows they always show the internal affairs people as the bad guys. I would have no problem working that job at all. I don't like criminals especially those that wear badges. Fortunately those are few and far between. Not as widespread as you make it appear DuckDawg. For some reason it appears personal for you, or we would not see the exaggeration. These guys just like our soldiers in the middle east risk much each day in our larger cities. You could get by for a while without them here in North Dakota, but once the news was out the big city boys would be here for the easy pickings. I hope you give these things some serious thought before you carelessly disrespect those willing to step in harms way for you.

I am not making excuses for the bad cops that I agree are out there, I'm just sticking up for the innocent ones your carelessly casting in bad light. I never went to the military because I was in college and kept my grades up. When the draft was reintroduced my number was so high I was never called. I think everyone should serve their country in some way during their lifetime. I guess every career that produces income and subsequently taxes paid to this nation serves our country, but it wasn't enough for me so I have worked as a reserve deputy since April 7, 1987 to serve my local community. I feel it a privilege to do so, and am grateful for the support and kindness our citizens show me.

Duckdawg if you have a bone to pick with how law enforcement does things, don't complain about the cop who is doing it, go to the politician who dictates how the police will do things. It's sort of like our Game and Fish getting blamed for bad wildlife management when the armchair biologists in the legislature call the shots to often. Hire experts, then let them do their job.


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## huntin1

DuckDawg said:


> At least 93 Milwaukee police officers - ranking from street cop to captain - have been disciplined for violating the laws and ordinances they were sworn to uphold, a Journal Sentinel investigation found.
> 
> Their offenses range from sexual assault and domestic violence to drunken driving and shoplifting, according to internal affairs records. All still work for the Police Department, where they have the authority to make arrests, testify in court and patrol neighborhoods.
> 
> Officers who run afoul of the law often aren't fired or prosecuted, the newspaper found. Consider:
> 
> At least six officers disciplined by the department for illegal behavior suffered no legal consequences whatsoever. One was Reginald Hampton, accused of sexually assaulting two women he met on duty. Another was Mark Kapusta, suspended after a woman said he pointed a gun at her head during a drunken road-rage incident. Neither officer was charged or ticketed.


First, let's look at numbers, there are over 900,000 sworn law enforcement officers in the U.S. If 1% of those officers are bad, that makes 9000 bad cops. I think that we can agree that every profession will have its bad apples. How many exist in the health care profession?

And believe it or not, I agree with you on how cops who break laws should be treated. They are criminals, plain and simple. But, because there are a few cops out there who are bad, they are all bad? There are health care providers out there who cheat, lie, and take advantage of the sick every day. Does that mean that all health care providers do the same?

Yeah, I'm a cop, have been for 34 years. I also hold advanced degrees in criminology and I'm betting that I'm more knowledgeable about the issues facing law enforcement today than you are, or the reporter who wrote the article you cited, 4 years ago.


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## dakotashooter2

Duckdawg...You are also forgetting the accessory to many of those officers that are bad..............The big city unions....... The unions have a "chokehold" on many of our large cities where you see the largest numbers of bad cops, often making it difficult if not impossible to get rid of bad ones. In some cities politics can be a big factor in their behavior. The turnover rate for police officers is quite high in many larger cities. Keep in mind that for every "easy" arrest they make they probably have 10 that resist to some extent. It's amazing that most officers have the self control they do. I think a lot of people hate of cops is partially their own fault. Many people have an unpleasant experience with a cop that is probably having a bad day and every cop they deal with after that has to suffer that persons distrust of cops. Still another problem if the failure of people to take responsibility for anything anymore.These people are just POed because they got caught and the police, good ,bad or otherwise will always be the subject of their anger because they need to blame someone other than themselves. The fact is cops don't have enough time in the day to go after everyone so when someone is targeted, like for a traffic ticket, it's gonna seem unfair when 100 other people are doing the same thing. You just gotta hope that their day comes too, and a lot of times it does.


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## Habitat Hugger

Sounds like Duckdawg got a ticket or something happened to him he didn't like. Sure, like in any profession, there is the occasional bad guy, but the vast majority are honest hardworking people out there doing an impossible job under impossible situations. 
Yes, we need Police Unions ( all Unions) to toss out the bad guys, and not circle the wagons, but we citizens should be steing up to,thelate and supporting the 98.4% who are the good guys.
In ND I have personally known many police officers and can't think of a single goon, though in other's opinions I'm sure there are some! At least in Bis, their selection procedures are are pretty darned good. Like any selection procedure for any profession, not perfect, but we are all human. 
Though I'venever directly needed a police officer in an emergency, I sure appreciate what they do and the obstacles they face every day. Sure glad they are there! Not perfect, but really Duck Dawg, they are not SS, KGB or whatever........


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## huntin1

DuckDawg said:


> HH disagree. Look the Fish and Game people I have been checked by ALL nice guys, no complaints here in ND.
> 
> You are missing the point. SS and KGB have some very similar traits to today's cop. 1. They all said they are doing their jobs. 2. Total dis-reguard for life other than their own. 3. Today's cop does not take an oath to follow the prosecutors orders or their boss's order...they in fact take an own oath to the Constitution of the United States of America, the very reason I served my country. Yet today's cop if he has even ever read it, does not follow it. Yes some "out spoken" Sheriffs in this country will defend the constitution but few if any cops will...they "go with the flow" be this bad or good, then just state I was doing my job.
> 
> The HUGE issue is the bad ones are not weeded out and punished as they should be and this is why I made my post. This is why I believe in the US you are seeing to "backlash" against cops. The big difference with a bad cop vs bad other profession.....no other profession carries a gun, clubs, tasers, handcuffs and can take your life, liberty, and freedom whenever they feel the like it".
> 
> I am a family man, church going Christian watching our country becoming a POLICE STATE and this concerns me. I love this country and this is sad.


You are wrong to the point of being ridiculous, but nothing I say will convince you of that. You are so convinced that all cops are bad that reason can't break through. Who's head is in the sand?

Adios, have a nice life.


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## Plainsman

DuckDawg the backlash against the cops comes from less and less respect for others and people thinking they are so important that the law means nothing to them. The backlash comes from a criminal attitude. It comes from people looking for a reason to riot. Maybe they will have riots every year a week or two before Christmas. Then they can use a brick instead of a credit card to loot Christmas presents for themselves.

You said you work in the medical field. I think it was about a year ago I read something about a gay guy arrested for having oral sex with patients in the post op recovery room. One guy woke up to soon and reported him. Does that make you bad? I think it simply makes that one person bad. You need to prescribe something to yourself that will bring reality back into focus.

Edit: DuckDawg you have the same access to news that we do. Why did you present these perpetrators as young adolescents when we know they were adults? Why did you portray them as victims when we all know they were not?


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## Chuck Smith

> The HUGE issue is the bad ones are not weeded out and punished as they should be and this is why I made my post.


Like mentioned earlier in bigger cities the reason why this isn't happening is UNIONS. Now I am not going into bashing Unions. But sometimes they make it almost impossible to get rid of bad apple in any occupation. bad contractors still get work because they are apart of a Union... Bad plumbers still get work because of the union. These people do crappy work but yet still get work. Now I know you will go into they are doing illegal stuff. But the Unions will represent them and help plead down things or even back them to get them off of stuff. Sad thing is this is our system of Justice not just with cops.

Also Plainsman hit the nail on the head...

The resent backlash has nothing to do with dirty cops. It has everything to do with people breaking the law and resisting arrest. I will just go through a couple of the situations that are bringing this to a head
1. Guy in NYC... watch that video. The man was a giant compaired to the cops. He was resisting and would not put his hands behind his back or in a defensless position...ie hands up or ontop of head. So what do the cops to...Bring him down. It is very sad he lost his life but he was resisting arrest.

2. Fergeson - Brown... It was shown that Mr. Brown was the one in the video and matched the description of a theft. It was proven via: forensics by both parties (each one had them do analysis) that he did grab the gun from the officer and they struggled in the squad car. The conclusions showed he never had his hands up when he was shot. evidence showed he did strike the officer. etc. So again... a person resisting arrest!!

3. AZ... A guy pointed a gun at a police officer while doing a drug deal then ran from the scene of the crime. So the officer didn't know if the gun was still present and what not. Also again... Resisting arrest.

There are a couple more examples but I can't think of them and don't want to look them up... I know I am lazy. But you see what is wrong in all the stories. Isn't the police is the people resisting arrest! Like plainsman stated people are not taking responsibility or want to push blame onto authority instead of owning up to ones actions. Now not to go all political but look at how people look at the government to take care of them!!


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## Plainsman

Duckdawg no one is debating the reality that there are some bad cops. We just don't agree with the extent of corruption you imply.


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## Chuck Smith

duck Dawg...

I agree that in this story they didn't need to shoot a 95 year old man with bean bags.

But... He was combative with hospital staff and they felt the need to call the police. So there is more to this story that what you submitted. Was he making threats to the staff, other patients, police?? Was he saying he was going to do harm to himself or others??? We don't know. All it said was he refused to do a urine test. They don't call police in for that!

But what was the underlying story.... The guy resisted police and was combative. He brandished a cane at the officers. Isn't that again.... Resisting a police officer!!!

All of these stories are the same.... People resisting arrest or police officers commands.

Edit:
Also look at the site he mentioned..... filmingcops.com. Do you think that the information they present will be slanted???


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## huntin1

Hey Duckdawg, here's a thought for you.

Since you are sure that all cops are bad, how about you apply, pin on a badge and make a difference. Do something besides lip service and spouting irrational rhetoric. Then come back in a year or two and let us know how you feel.

Yeah, that's a personal challenge from me to you, what do you say?


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## Chuck Smith

> Give me a frickin break....a 95 year old guy WTF I say. And your challenge my friend has been done for my entire career. I have worked as an ER nurse for my whole career. I know how to handle a 95 year old who threatens me. I DON"T KILL HIM. I have been threatened, assaulted, spit at, hit, and countless other nasty crap in my career. Never not once, have I had to kill anyone.


Agree with you 100%. But why then were the cops called in this case? Why didn't the hospital take care of it? I also agree that they didn't need to bean bag this guy. They could have stopped him or controlled him in a better way.

But what you are not seeing is that all the cases are people resisting arrest. Why aren't these people listening to police? Why do people think they don't need to listen to police or people in authority? That is the root of the issue IMHO.


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## Chuck Smith

> The break down of society has happened here.


 :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: That is a huge issue and problem. 100% agree with you.

It isn't that people don't respect just cops. It is teachers, doctors, adults, etc. They don't respect each other. The golden rule is lost in many people children and adults alike. It is always.... What is best for me! That another topic in itself.


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## huntin1

You are wrong on so many levels duckdawg. I know there are bad cops out there. Whether you choose to believe it or not they do get weeded out. The story you offered up as evidence of a bad cop proves that, he was charged with a felony and is in court right now. Explain to me how he was protected and covered up.

How many people die while under the care of a Doctor or Nurse who made a mistake, gave the wrong drug, the wrong dose, or for whatever reason caused their patient to die, and then covered it up. If you don't believe that this happens then your head is in the sand concerning your chosen profession.

Here, I Google it for you, http://www.google.com/search?q=Medical+ ... rt=10&sa=N

Does this mean I'm going to consider all medical professionals as criminals who cover up and protect their colleagues? After all, evidence suggests that that is what happens in a large number of cases. No, because I also see evidence that medical professionals are brought to task concerning the harm they do. Something that you refuse to recognize and acknowledge concerning law enforcement.

Bad cops exist, that's a fact. In any demographic group, especially one as large a American Law enforcement, there are going to be bad apples. And there are going to be coverups. But the vast majority of cops are not involved. The vast majority are committed to serving the communities they work for. Just like the vast majority of health care professionals are committed to caring for their patients.

And the bad ones do get weeded out regardless of the anti cop rhetoric that you and other conspiracy theorists propagate.

And I would bet that I am as familiar, maybe more familiar with the Constitution as you. I did after all take an oath to protect it, and I work within it's boundaries and constraints daily.


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## Plainsman

> How many people die while under the care of a Doctor or Nurse who made a mistake, gave the wrong drug, the wrong dose, or for whatever reason caused their patient to die, and then covered it up. If you don't believe that this happens then your head is in the sand concerning your chosen profession.


The medical profession kills more people than all handguns in the Unites States, but I'm still glad they are there because I can think beyond the obvious.


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## Chuck Smith

I want to post this before duckdawg....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/video- ... id=DELLDHP

It shows a guy getting shot. Well if you watch the video you will again what happened is the person didn't listen to instructions from the cop. Cop repeatedly says don't move, don't move, don't get out of car, don't move..... the guy tries to get out of the car and pushes the door open when the cop is trying to keep it closed. BANG!

The cops found a gun in the car already, guy was a repeat offender, served jail time, was picked up previous, cops knew who he was and stuff he was into, etc. So he was a known threat.

Now the argument could be had if a tazer or something else could have been used. Maybe, maybe not.

BUT......... another person dies because they are not listening to what the cops tells them to do. Now people are protesting... his hands were up. Yet he still wasn't listening to commands!

This one will be interesting how it plays out and what else was in the car and what not. None of that has yet to be announced or in the media.


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## Plainsman

Even racist Holder found the cop in Ferguson was justified in shooting. If the cop past that test there can be no more question. By the way has anyone else heard that George Soros was funding and paying people for the Ferguson protests?


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## Plainsman

> ....where the hell did shoot first and try to talk later come from?


From a gun coming to bare on your location. From a knife wielding assailant that gets within 7 yards where statistics say you can't stop them from killing you. From a person who gets to close and will not show their hands. Police give instructions, but some have evil intentions and others are so arrogant they think they can disobey and they pay the price. A policeman should not have to risk his life because an arrogant person thinks his touchy feely self importance is worth more than a policeman's life. I would say that more than 95% of those shootings were justified. Most of those police don't want to hurt anyone. They join a police department because they want to help those who are being victimized.

Look at New York now. Police are afraid to shoot so crime is rising. It's the public through their representatives that should set the criteria for a shoot no shoot situation. Then the police who can live with it continue as police or find a different job. As these criteria become more restrictive the more reasonable who have families at home to care for will quit. What you will get are police with less respect. We get what we create. The more we complain the more good cops quit. The more dangerous it gets the more likely a policeman is going to shoot. Like everyone else when the chips are down they think it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. It's so easy to criticize from the safety of ones couch.


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## huntin1

> Try to remember you are suppose to PROTECT and serve, not shoot, harvest, and tag.


And just what do you think we are doing when we confront and have to shoot a gang banger, armed robber, murderer or rapist? I would call it protecting and serving those who don't wish to be victimized by these criminals. And you seem to forget that these people you are so upset about ARE criminals who don't care about societal norms or the pain they cause innocent people. I haven't forgotten that fact, nor will I allow it to happen if it can be prevented.



> The public is NOT your enemy. People make mistakes, people do dumb crap, but before you are judge, jury, AND executioner please think what else could be done.


You're right, the public is not my enemy, but all of those criminals who would victimize innocent people are. People like Michael Brown, et. al. do not make mistakes, they make bad decisions, bad decisions are costly, some more so than others.



> Killing another human being is serious &$#*.


Thank you Capt. Obvious, I would have never guessed.



> The gun and club is not always how it has to been done, "please" does work, not always I get that. Although, I have seen it work many times in my profession with very nasty people, it's called give respect to earn respect.


You're right, please works occasionally, but, what about those times when it doesn't? I tell my guys to be nice, until it's time to not be nice any more, then do what has to be done. Sorry if you don't like that, but I happen to live in the real world where bad people do bad things no matter how nice you are to them. And respect? You'll have my respect when you comply with my direction. Don't comply, and we're back to that pesky "bad decisions" thing again.


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## Plainsman

I comes down to this: Until DuckDawg puts on a badge and puts his behind on the line he has no way of knowing what it's like. The ideas he posts on here show he also has no way to imagine it.

DuckDawg you have said you respect police, but there are bad ones. We all agree, but I have a hard time believing you actually think that way because you follow up with more police bashing. Your beyond dislike and into the realm of hate. One could actually imagine your posting from prison.


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## Plainsman

DuckDawg I think your just looking for conflict. When you tell me it's evident from my posts that I dislike nonresidents I can tell your not comprehending at all. As a matter of fact I have often defended nonresidents. I have pointed out that sometimes they have created problems, but defend them as individuals. Maybe your should read: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=148353

Now in your PM's it sounds like you think most cops are on power trips. One minute you say most cops are good, but we should admit there are some bad ones. We all admit there are some bad ones. Still your on your bias rant. Don't tell me what a swell guy you are then tell me how terrible cops are. People who dislike cops as much as you I suspect.


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## shaug

DuckDawg wrote,



> Seems anyone who has a different opinion then you doesn't deserve to be alive, be it NR or resident, you just seem to like the fight. Must be a cop yourself based on your "attitude" toward others. Most cops just can't play in the sandbox together with anyone.


Warm, you are getting warmer.


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## Plainsman

> I myself think everyone has the right to freedom and to do as they please as long as they do not hurt others. A very Libertarian way of thinking, pretty much as God created us.


I would agree with that too. 


> WTF and no Plainsman she did not have a knife in her hand, nor a gun pointed at the cop. The cop was a prick with a attitude.


I have met those type too. Fortunately they are few and far between. I hope your mother didn't greet him with the language you use.

The odd thing is DuckDawg when you mention bad cops everyone agrees that there are a few and none of us like them. However, you keep pounding this drum anyway. So do you think most of them are bad people? I seriously think you have had a problem with the law and not the police.



> Seems anyone who has a different opinion then you doesn't deserve to be alive,


and Shaug said:


> Warm, you are getting warmer


Geeesh drama queens.

Oh and don't pay much attention to Shaug. He just as a bur under his saddle because I don't kiss up to him or always agree with him. Were both conservative, but he will call me liberal because I only agree with him 95% of the time. Me, I draw the line at bowing and praying each morning in the direction of the closest U S Mint.


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## Chuck Smith

Duck Dawg.... No I don't think cops are gods. But if you give respect to a cop they will typically give it back.



> The cop was a prick with a attitude


I have ran into many of them who have this complex. I will tell you a story about one time I was pulled over.

I was leaving a town festival and it was around 1 am. So you know the cops are looking to get DUI's. I had two beers the entire night. One at about 6 pm after a softball game and another at the dance. Then I was done because I was driving people around. So I get pulled over and the State Trooper comes up to my window asks me the typical question (trying to incriminate yourself).... "Do you know why I pulled you over?". I said, "I am sure it was for speeding because I was going 60 in a 55". He replied, "No you were going way faster than that." I say, "No honestly officer I had my cruise set at 60 (which I did). Could you please tell me how fast I was going so I can make the adjustment and get my vehicle looked at." He replied, "no tell me how fast you were going because it was way faster than 60." I repeat what I just told him about cruise set at 60. He then tells me with a big attitude, "well 60 is still speeding". I replied, "you are correct." But right there I know he didn't radar me and just pulled me over at random. Then he asks me if I had anything to drink... I say, "I had two beers all night". His comment, "I have arrested many people who told me they just had two beers.". So he leaves and goes to run my license and what not. He comes back to me and says... "Since you told me you had two beers I need to give you some sobriety test.". I get out of the truck. I tell him to just give me the eye test or breathe test so I can get on my way. He asks, "how do you know about these tests." I tell him I have friends and family that are police. Anyways he gives me the eye test. He was going further than the angle needed. I start to turn my head as I follow a little. He screams at me and says... Stop turning your head. I was just barely moving it. He move the light further again. I don't move my head this time. I make the comment, "this reminds me of when I am hunting and I hear some noise behind me and I can't turn my head around." He gives a little chuckle and says I am free to go. I then knowing he was full of BS and a little put off by his attitude during the whole procedure. So I asked him if he could show me the radar so I know how fast I was going to get my trucked fixed because he told me I was going faster than 60. He said with a cocky smile, "have a good night." Well that is when I went off on him. I said you are being a prick and cocky and let about 20 drunks drive right by us. How I was nothing but polite with him and co-operated. I went off saying I know u didn't even radar me and just pulled me over at random. I told him I hope that nobody dies because of the time wasted with me. He wasn't too happy but knew I was 100% correct in everything I said and what I assumed. This shows you there are bad apples out there.

But your over all assumption that most cops are pricks. Not the case at all. It is quit opposite. Most are very nice and are there to protect and serve.


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## huntin1

> The American public as a whole have become tired of the power trips many cops are on. And....it is no longer JUST thugs who suspect and fear cops. Good God fearing people such as my 84 year old mother who was pulled over one time in her life at 75 and told that she could be hand cuffed and "halled in" by a Michigan State Police for doing 32 in a 25 zone due to being a non-resident. WTF and no Plainsman she did not have a knife in her hand, nor a gun pointed at the cop. The cop was a prick with a attitude.


Was he a prick with an attitude, or is that the opinion of you and your mother. Not saying he wasn't, just that in all likelihood there is more to this story. And from what you have written, she wasn't cuffed and hauled in, just told that it could happen. Guess what, lots of jurisdictions had that policy years ago, some still do. Any non-resident was required to pay their fine right away. Some required their officers to "haul" them in to the station to pay that fine. Most courts have ruled that this can no longer be done. And some, like my department have a policy which states that anyone transported in a patrol vehicle will be handcuffed. And guess what again, if I have to transport you for any reason you are going to be cuffed. I don't much care that it bruises your ego, I'm not going to take disciplinary action just to make you feel better.

Yes some cops are on power trips, but in my considerable experience dealing with people, it is more a matter of a large number of people being spoiled drama queens who refuse to recognize any authority, have to have everything their own way and will accept no responsibility for anything they do. Not everyone is this way, mind you. There are also a large number of people out there who respect authority, make mistakes and apologize for those mistakes and are respected because of it.



> I myself think everyone has the right to freedom and to do as they please as long as they do not hurt others. A very Libertarian way of thinking, pretty much as God created us.


To some extent I agree, however, if I'm cruising the interstate highway at 100 mph I'm not hurting anyone, at least not until I have an accident. Some of the laws we have on the books are there because history has shown us that these behaviors have an extremely high likelihood of causing harm. So would it make you feel better if we didn't stop speeders until they injured or killed someone?

And since you decided to bring God into this discussion, I'll leave this here:



> Romans 13:1-14 ESV
> 
> Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...


Now, before you go off about rulers who were evil, yeah they exist, just like bad cops exist. Don't just look at the face value of the message here, look deeper.


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## Habitat Hugger

Of course there are bad cops, Duckdawg, nobody is saying there are not, but you can't tar Em with same brush! Like bad lawyers, doctors, mechanics, teachers and every occupation, each occupation is doing their best to weed out the bad ones. Perfact? Of course not.


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## Plainsman

DuckDawg it sounds like we are pretty much in agreement again. I hope we don't go back to: "Seems anyone who has a different opinion then you doesn't deserve to be alive,".



> Heck might even buy a ticket to the Policemen's Ball!


  Nope, not falling for that old joke.

Officer if I buy four tickets to the Patrolman's ball will you forget the speeding ticker? Lady Highway Patrolmen don't have balls. 

Did you hear about the Patrolman that stopped a guy doing 110mph and the Patrolman said "I was supposed to be off two hours ago. I have heard every excuse in the book, but if you can give me one I have never heard I'll let you go". The guy said " my wife run away with a Highway Patrolman two weeks ago. I was only doing 50mph, but I seen your light and thought you were trying to bring her back".


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## huntin1

So does THIS,

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/good-cops/


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## Plainsman

DuckDawg everyone has agreed there are some bad cops, but you don't give up. What's the deal? Are you on a crusade to create disrespect for all cops?


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## dakotashooter2

Chuck Smith said:


> Duck Dawg.... No I don't think cops are gods. But if you give respect to a cop they will typically give it back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The cop was a prick with a attitude
> 
> 
> 
> I have ran into many of them who have this complex. I will tell you a story about one time I was pulled over.
> 
> I was leaving a town festival and it was around 1 am. So you know the cops are looking to get DUI's. I had two beers the entire night. One at about 6 pm after a softball game and another at the dance. Then I was done because I was driving people around. So I get pulled over and the State Trooper comes up to my window asks me the typical question (trying to incriminate yourself).... "Do you know why I pulled you over?". I said, "I am sure it was for speeding because I was going 60 in a 55". He replied, "No you were going way faster than that." I say, "No honestly officer I had my cruise set at 60 (which I did). Could you please tell me how fast I was going so I can make the adjustment and get my vehicle looked at." He replied, "no tell me how fast you were going because it was way faster than 60." I repeat what I just told him about cruise set at 60. He then tells me with a big attitude, "well 60 is still speeding". I replied, "you are correct." But right there I know he didn't radar me and just pulled me over at random. Then he asks me if I had anything to drink... I say, "I had two beers all night". His comment, "I have arrested many people who told me they just had two beers.". So he leaves and goes to run my license and what not. He comes back to me and says... "Since you told me you had two beers I need to give you some sobriety test.". I get out of the truck. I tell him to just give me the eye test or breathe test so I can get on my way. He asks, "how do you know about these tests." I tell him I have friends and family that are police. Anyways he gives me the eye test. He was going further than the angle needed. I start to turn my head as I follow a little. He screams at me and says... Stop turning your head. I was just barely moving it. He move the light further again. I don't move my head this time. I make the comment, "this reminds me of when I am hunting and I hear some noise behind me and I can't turn my head around." He gives a little chuckle and says I am free to go. I then knowing he was full of BS and a little put off by his attitude during the whole procedure. So I asked him if he could show me the radar so I know how fast I was going to get my trucked fixed because he told me I was going faster than 60. He said with a cocky smile, "have a good night." Well that is when I went off on him. I said you are being a prick and cocky and let about 20 drunks drive right by us. How I was nothing but polite with him and co-operated. I went off saying I know u didn't even radar me and just pulled me over at random. I told him I hope that nobody dies because of the time wasted with me. He wasn't too happy but knew I was 100% correct in everything I said and what I assumed. This shows you there are bad apples out there.
> 
> But your over all assumption that most cops are pricks. Not the case at all. It is quit opposite. Most are very nice and are there to protect and serve.
Click to expand...

Sounds like your behavior at the end probably reinforced his behavior. I feel sorry for the person he stopped after you because they probably got the retaliation for what you said. You probably didn't think about that. It's possible you may have even gotten the wrath of the officer resulting some a$$ he dealt with before you.

I like to give them the benefit of the doubt that they probably have more bad days than good and if they are acting badly it's probably one of those bad days.


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## Plainsman

> Plainsman and you take issue with me for bringing light to this atrocity?


Not at all DuckDawg why do you dishonestly try to get others to make that false assumption? I readily admit there are some bad cops. Everyone on the discussion admits there are some bad cops. It's radical to think most are bad.

Cops don't put people in jail. Judges, prosecuting attorney's have an influence, but mostly it's twelve of your fellow citizens that put you in jail. People who are found innocent later are the victims of the system not an individual cop. I still stand by the idea that it's better to let nine criminals escape than punish one individual innocent person. Our system isn't perfect, but it's the best in the world. It's tough to say your sorry after you have stoned a woman to death.

I first read your posts thinking you simply had misconceptions, but it appears your on a mission because you hate cops. The premises you try build are beyond what most rational people will believe.

Through life in every profession I have always believed there are three types of people. As a biologist I seen those looking for the truth, those with an idea but change their mind when they find the truth, those willing to do anything to prove they were right to begin with. You can apply that to farmers, teachers, and yes police. There are those as you say on a power trip, some stupid, but many there for the right reasons willing to risk everything for the safety of others. One must judge people by their profession the same as you judge those of a different skin color, and that is individually by their character. Watch the threads on any online site with debate and you will see those who try to add, those who argue to argue, and those who hate and try get in little digs when ever they can, but add nothing to the intellectual sum of the thread.


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## Plainsman

DuckDawg said:


> Plainsman I simply believe the problem of "Bad" cops is FAR greater then you think. We will agree to disagree on this one.
> 
> You also must remember I am talking about most things of everyday life with average people. By this I mean cop interaction over a parking, speeding, traffic or other minor infractions. We will a all agree the punk drug dealing with the career criminal needs and I endorse harsh treatment.
> 
> What I am talking about is exactly what I posted. Mentally challenged people beaten and imprisoned falsely WTF? How could any person sleep knowing this goes on? Plainsman if you brother was in prison over a cop's unlawful actions I think you would view this much differently. Corruption hates light, as the good book states. Light exposes darkness. I believe in the public knowing what goes on not secrecy.
> 
> And just recently I beat a bad cop in Jamestown court. Seems when I worked in Jamestown I got out of work at the "magic" hour midnight. I had to drive through 1st street to get home. I am a nurse in my scubs coming home......yet pulled over 6 times over a 6 month period for BS. Never a ticket "just checking" &$#*. Good, glad to hear it. I think once in a while they think they are going to get a drunk driver and they worry about their excuse for probable cause after they stop them. They deserve to get their behind handed to them in court.
> 
> The last time they pulled me over I had an attitude with the cop, yes. I firmly asked him what probable cause he had to pull me over. Well within my constitutional right? would you not agreed with this? He writes me a ticket for following too close another vehicle. He thought he had a drunk driver I guess. Long story short took a $20 ticket yes, 20 buck to jury trial and BEAT that losy cop. The cop was a bafoon, couldn't keep his story straight once and his very own video hung his case to dry. I will add that I think they should automatically loose their case when they move someone out of the video. For example at 3:00 in the morning they tell a judge they moved the guy out of the video because of traffic. There is no traffic in Jamestown at 3:00am. It's evident they are skirting the law and the law is what they have sworn to uphold. I know of this happening and even though it wasn't me it still ticks me off.  This is the crap I am talking about. I wasn't speeding, I was weaving, I wasn't doing as the say "nuttin wong" harassment by a cop.
> 
> Lack of respect for the law, lack of respect for the public, and this mentality that it is a war between the public and law enforcement is why this thread started. I live and work where law enforcement is generally still the "good ole" system of respect. This is not the case in most of America and if you could venture out of your bubble and see America as a whole you would agree with my point.
> 
> Hence this is why I live where I do, I depend upon my neighbor and God. I have no issues with any law enforcement because I personally have no need for them. My Bible pretty much gives me enough direction to live life with my family in peace.


 :thumb:

I agree. I still think 75% of the cops are good guys. I also will say that 25% bad cops is to many. So run for office and do something about it. Call your rep and complain. I just don't agree with making it look like so many are bad. Part of the problem is the liberals have made things so hard on cops the good ones are leaving. They want the bad people arrested, then make so many laws that it's nearly impossible to do. Evidently even with a bad cop the system worked for you.


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## huntin1

I really wasn't going to argue with you any more, but some of the things you post are such blatant misconceptions.



Duckdawg said:


> And just recently I beat a bad cop in Jamestown court. Seems when I worked in Jamestown I got out of work at the "magic" hour midnight. I had to drive through 1st street to get home. I am a nurse in my scubs coming home......yet pulled over 6 times over a 6 month period for BS. Never a ticket "just checking" &$#*. The last time they pulled me over I had an attitude with the cop, yes. I firmly asked him what probable cause he had to pull me over. Well within my constitutional right? would you not agreed with this?


First, there is no probable cause requirement for conducting a traffic stop. The phrase you are looking for is reasonable suspicion. Probable cause is a completely different standard. Second, Not sure of what "magic" hour you speak, but higher courts have upheld the notion that it is prudent to believe that the closer it gets to the time when bars close a higher number of intoxicated drivers are behind the wheel. Generally, between midnight and 3:00 am.



> Examples of Reasonable Suspicion for a DUI Stop Reasonable suspicion that a motorist is impaired may by established by any of the following observations:
> 
> Straddling the center line Illegal turn Drifting from one lane to another Nearly hitting other cars or objects on the roadside Extremely slow or erratic driving Frequent braking Stopping in the middle of the road for no apparent reason
> 
> This is by no means a complete list, as anything an officer believes is a sign of impaired driving might possibly be considered reasonable suspicion. Likewise, an officer may investigate further if he has a reasonable suspicion that the driver is impaired after making a stop for something entirely unrelated (a burned-out brake light, for example). In some cases, reasonable suspicion for a DUI stop may be established even if the officer did not witness any actual driving. For example, an officer may conduct a field sobriety test after an automobile accident or if a motorist is found unconscious behind the wheel of a parked car. - See more at: http://dui.findlaw.com/dui-arrests/what ... iAjE4.dpuf
> 
> Reasonable Suspicion vs. Probable Cause
> 
> While reasonable suspicion allows an officer to temporarily stop and detain a motorist in order to investigate further if the officer thinks the motorist may have committed a crime, an officer must meet the higher standard of probable cause before making an arrest. Probable cause simply means that an officer has enough evidence to believe a motorist has probably committed a crime, thus justifying his or her arrest. In the context of a DUI stop, an officer could have probable cause for an arrest after administering a field sobriety test and/or a breath test if the results point to probable intoxication.
> 
> Probable cause differs from reasonable suspicion in that, in order to meet the probable cause standard, an officer must have enough evidence to suggest that the motorist has most likely committed a crime. Reasonable suspicion, on the other hand, only necessitates that the officer have some indication that the motorist might have committed a crime. It is a fine distinction, but an important one.
> - See more at: http://dui.findlaw.com/dui-arrests/what ... iAjE4.dpuf


http://dui.findlaw.com/dui-arrests/what ... stop-.html



Duckdawg said:


> He writes me a ticket for following too close another vehicle. He thought he had a drunk driver I guess. Long story short took a $20 ticket yes, 20 buck to jury trial and BEAT that losy cop. The cop was a bafoon, couldn't keep his story straight once and his very own video hung his case to dry. This is the crap I am talking about. I wasn't speeding, I was weaving, I wasn't doing as the say "nuttin wong" harassment by a cop.


We have a mechanism in place to handle these issues and it is not on a public forum. If you really feel that strongly about this contact the Chief of Police.

And I'm not really tracking what you say here, you start out by saying you got a ticket for following too close, you finish with "I wasn't speeding, I was weaving"

Either way reasonable suspicion exists to stop, issue a citation, and/or check to see if you are impaired and release you with no citation. Why this officer chose to do what he did is unknown to me. I was not there and I know nothing of the circumstances surrounding this stop. But again, there is a disciplinary mechanism in place to handle these types of issues, a complaint needs to be made to the Chief of Police. In my opinion mouthing off on a public forum without giving the department an opportunity to rectify the situation, is bad form.


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## Plainsman

> The phrase you are looking for is reasonable suspicion. Probable cause is a completely different standard.


Thanks a little review never hurts. :thumb:

With the unreasonable arguments and the painting of most cops bad DuckDawg has some much larger issues.


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## Plainsman

I should have broken down my percentages to 75% good cops, 20% ok, and 5% bad. My over estimate of bad included those who are just hohum. My bad.


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## Plainsman

> It just breaks my heart each time I read stories as the ones I posted were abusers with a badge go unchecked.


Same here, and I'll bet it bothers most of the police even more. After all it makes their job harder, and causes the public to have distrust. If these things are truly happening then run your own camera, take them to court, and take their job.



> Yet some here say "I" have a larger issue, WTF I say?


It just appears that even when people agree you carry it to a further stage. You also claim to be Christian, but I don't see anyone else on the site using your language. What we do, what we say, and how we say it is a reflection on us. For example if you watch closely you will notice at least one lurker who waits to spew his pettiness, but it exposes his character.


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## huntin1

> huntin1 a public forum is exactly what we need.


Agreed. But, after you have taken it to the head of the department and failed to get a resolution.

Any other way weakens your argument and makes you appear to be a petty whiner with an agenda.


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## Chuck Smith

> Sounds like your behavior at the end probably reinforced his behavior. I feel sorry for the person he stopped after you because they probably got the retaliation for what you said. You probably didn't think about that. It's possible you may have even gotten the wrath of the officer resulting some a$$ he dealt with before you.


Dakota.... The issue was he pulled me over for no reason! He didn't clock me for speeding. It was a random pull over. He just picked out a car and pulled it over. That is the issue I had and why I said and did what I did. Which in fact is illegal behavior on the officer. If I would have been an impaired driver. I would have gotten off with a good lawyer. Because he didn't have a reason to pull me over. He just did it at random. Which in turn makes cops get a bad rap.

This is one of the cases like Duck Dawg is saying... a guy on a power trip. Someone looking and wanting to write a ticket. This isn't "Policing" a population. It is hunting, looking for a fight. Not observing and reacting. Now if he would have said, "yep you were going 61 in a 55. Or I clocked you at 60 mph and that is why I pulled you over". I would have had no issue with the stop. Or with him being gruff with me.

I hope you see the difference or what I am getting at.


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## Chuck Smith

Duck.....



> And just recently I beat a bad cop in Jamestown court. Seems when I worked in Jamestown I got out of work at the "magic" hour midnight. I had to drive through 1st street to get home. I am a nurse in my scubs coming home......yet pulled over 6 times over a 6 month period for BS. Never a ticket "just checking" &$#*.


I agree with you 100% on this one. If you did nothing wrong... ie: go over a center line, fog line, heavy weaving, speeding, rolling a stop sign, etc. A police officer should not pull you over. Because there is no cause.

Like your story... mine was the same. It was a cop looking to write a ticket. Not observing and then reacting. Which is what "Policing" is. Observe and protect. I agree that some cops get off on power trips. But this is few and far between.

I know there are a couple in my home town right now that way. (Before anyone goes off on me.) I did bring it to the attention of the chief of police about some of the behavior I witnessed. Not sure if anything has been done but I did bring it to the top. Watched a police officer run a red light, saw a police officer set up on private property "hiding" to catch speeders, saw another police officer set up on the side of a road over a little hill in a "no parking" area looking to catch people. (hard to explain this one but he was in the east bound side of the road and behind him is a little knob. If someone came up over the hill they could have rear ended him because of the narrow street. Hence no parking on that side of the road. On the other side of the road if he was facing west more room.) There is also some other things I witnessed about this same officer personal behavior which a small town cop shouldn't have. But again different story.

So there are bad apples out there or guys on power trips. But those are few and far between IMHO. I don't paint all of them with a broad brush. They have hard jobs to do.


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## Plainsman

Chuck your a reasonable guy. :thumb:


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## Plainsman

DuckDawg if you think those kind of cops tick you off think how much they tick of the good cops who have to work with them, and cause them to be judged just as you were when you were pulled over without reason.


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## huntin1

I'm narrow minded because I suggest that you report a "bad" cop to his boss? Really?

Duckdawg, you are part of the reason there are still "bad" cops out there. There is no way to discipline, or get rid of these guys unless YOU Complain about them. And not on a hunting website, to their bosses.

Continue your petty unreasonable whining. I'm done.


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## Longshot

I'm guessing he isn't going to complain because there is more to the story.


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## huntin1

There usually is.


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## duckp

Maybe what this forum needs is a good cop.Or maybe everyone's opinion isn't allowed.IMO the demise of this forum is in no small part due to 'moderators' pushing their agendas which grows very old.


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## Habitat Hugger

Duck dawg, you were pulled over 6 times in six months? Yes, that seems a bit much, especially if it were only one particular officer. However, if it were a variety of officers I'd seriously examine your own driving skills and habits! All my life I've been driving ( fast but carefully ) to and from work and I doubt I''ve been stopped more than maybe a couple of times. 
Also, on a website like this we only have your version of what happened, not the officer involved. I wonder how many times police officers have heard the " couple of beers" or " two beers" thing when they smell your breath, then get a blood alcohol of .15 or so! This is often the norm in Emergency Departments. A contributing factor in why I quit the ER and went into another field. Tired of the drunks protesting their innocence and yelling about their " rights" while injuring themselves and others, sometimes killing others and being vomited on every shift! Sometimes dodging fists and calling security.
Maybe I'm too Conservative but I love it when I drive through a DUI checks top and always think them from getting the drunken potential fool killers off the road! Sure glad my friend Rick Beckers bill was defeated! 
For the life of me I can't understand why a police officer would choose a life dealing with checking total strangers all alone in the middle of the night, most of them hostile, lots of them drunk, often armed.....having to work all hours, weekend, holidays, ....the burnout rate must be high.
Yep, there are some bad ones, but most are anything but, IMHO! Give Em a break, Duck Dawg! Mistakes? Guess you are not human and have NEVER made a wrong judgement or error!?! Six times pulled over in Six months to little old and stupid me is a red flag! Something smells like a week old dead carp!


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## upland420

> Duck dawg, you were pulled over 6 times in six months? Yes, that seems a bit much, especially if it were only one particular officer. However, if it were a variety of officers I'd seriously examine your own driving skills and habits! All my life I've been driving ( fast but carefully ) to and from work and I doubt I''ve been stopped more than maybe a couple of times.


Oh come on now. He's told everyone (about a dozen times, in this thread alone) what a 'good Christian' he is. As if *self professed* 'good Christians' have never been caught doing anything heinous....in the last 5 minutes. A red flag should fire off whenever someone can't stop crowing about what a 'good Christian' they are. RIP, humility. uke:


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## Plainsman

> A red flag should fire off whenever someone can't stop crowing about what a 'good Christian' they are. RIP, humility.


That depends a lot on theology. Since Luther the offshoots have always "sought teachers with words their itching ears long to hear".  Those that like themselves a lot are modern day Pharisees.


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