# Winchester Xpert opinion???



## XFactor

I have shot xperts alot over the years and also have shot other types of shells as well for snow geese. Does anyone notice that xperts arent as lethal as some other shells like Hevi metal or Hypersonic Remington shells. I have used both the Hevi metal which I love and Hypersonic Remington which I also am a fan of. The xpert in 3.5 inch shell is complete junk for sure, the casing collapses right at the brass alot when cycling through the gun.

I am interested in hearing some opinions as I am wondering if its worth spending 80-100 more a case for more killing power.

Whats everyone else using?


----------



## DUCKWHISPERER

I couldn't agree more with you...Junk.3 different Benelli's had problems with these exact shells. Thought it was the couple cases we bought, but also heard it from a few outfitters when were in Sodak a couple of weeks ago-They too were having the same problem with them folding up on them. The range/impact factor was also a problem...even when using Remington Sportsman we had better knock down power(3.5" Deuces). I won't shootem/buyem unless thats all that is availeable!


----------



## J.D.

Xperts are all I shoot. I am shooting 3" though. Do a little research, a 3 1/2 shell out of any 12 gauge is not going to pattern well. Ive seen every brand of shell fold up with the bigger extensions guys are now using, it is just too much pressure on the plastic.


----------



## jcnelsn1

I used to shoot 3 inch Federal blue boxes almost exclusively, but my last few cases this spring have been Winchester Expert 3 inch BBs. I have been very impressed and will be sticking with them. Killing birds very well out of a factory mod in my SBEII. I think the extra speed is worth the reduced payload compared to the Federals.


----------



## IowaBlood

I use Xpert BB for my goose Loads but nothing else, and now that I think about it, i did have some problems with them this season, I just thought the action wasnt slamming them into the chamber far enought though


----------



## Buck25

I shoot them and dont have problems with them. They are a little dirtier then most but thats really all i have to say bad about them. For 95 bucks a case you cant be expecting them to be the best shell out there.


----------



## Decoyin Drake

Xperts.... You get what you pay for. Cut one apart and look at what your buying. They look like floor sweepings and the powder is filthy


----------



## XFactor

Thats what I was thinking, I shoot easily 1000 rounds in the spring and I have much cleaner kills and longer range with other brands. They definetly are a dirtier shell but people still kill birds with them, the question is are they killing as many do to pattern and killing power, I think not just through my own experience. Its nice to get buy cheap but I think your definetly getting what you pay for.


----------



## J.D.

This is really simple to figure out.......pattern your gun.

I patterned 4 different 3" shotgun shells (Kent, Federal, Winchester Supremes and Xperts) out of a SBEII with a factory modified choke at 3 different distances (25, 40, 55 yds). Xpert #2's had the best results up to 55 yards with Kent #1's a close second. Not saying they are the best shell, but out of my gun and chosen choke they had the most pellets in a 3 ft. circle.

Every brand of gun and choke produces different results. The best thing to do is experiment with patterning and then once you choose a load that has the best results, do not switch. I shoot 3" #2's for everything but teal season.


----------



## PJ

I shoot Xpert 3 inch 2s for snows. No problems, no complaints. Federal powder is WAY dirtier than Winchester IMO.


----------



## Buck25

PJ said:


> I shoot Xpert 3 inch 2s for snows. No problems, no complaints. Federal powder is WAY dirtier than Winchester IMO.


i'l have to disagree with you there. I shot around a case of federals late last fall(with no oil in my gun) and the action was amazingly clean...the half a case of experts this spring again with no oil made the gun pretty filthy. Not a huge deal to me though.


----------



## korsgaden

what do people think about snow goose blackclouds also federal coming out with #1 in the blue box 3 inch load


----------



## kill em

I shoot the Black Cloud Snow Goose loads in BB and love them. I can reach farther than any of my friends and I have way less cripples. (That could also be my superior shooting skills compared to my friends   ) But I switched to them this year during dark goose season and will not go back to another shell.


----------



## Buck25

i am a poor college student but the way i see it, it just doesn't make sense to buy a 3 in shell that cost more then a 3.5. I can get 3 inchers for 100 bucks a case and kill birds just fine with the experts and federals i really haven't had a problem with either. I do like to have a 3.5 loads on hand(usually experts) for those days when the birds are getting the best of me and i gotta take longer shots. I would be impressed to see 3 inch black clouds out shoot an expert 3.5 and the blackclouds 3's seem to run atleast 5 bucks more then the experts. just my opinion


----------



## lesserhunter

3.5in of blackcloud 2 shot out of the blackcloud patternmaster is the way to roll. shot up a bunch of random federals and estates this weekend at snows and they definetly dont shoot the same. expensive shells DO kill better from what i have seen


----------



## headshot

It all comes down to what works in your gun. I have a shotgun that just loves the xperts in 3.5, deuces or 3 inch BB. Coupled with the patternmaster extended range I can easily kill birds when they are otherwise out of range.


----------



## the professor

lesserhunter said:


> 3.5in of blackcloud 2 shot out of the blackcloud patternmaster is the way to roll. shot up a bunch of random federals and estates this weekend at snows and they definetly dont shoot the same. expensive shells DO kill better from what i have seen


How do they kill *better*? If I can buy federal speed shoks 3" 2's for $9 a box, and get a 80% pattern density at 40 yards vs buying black cloud 3" 2's at $19 a box and get a 60% pattern density, why would I want to shoot the expensive stuff? Both have more than sufficient energy at 40 yards to cleanly kill birds. Getting that better pattern density more than makes up for the difference in retained energy per pellet in each load.


----------



## lesserhunter

from what i have seen the expensive shells have FAR less cripples than the cheaper ones when shooting at the same birds. my gun also patterns much better with black cloud or hevimetal than any other load i have ever tryed.


----------



## buck&amp;duck

had the same problem shooting 3.5 kents out of a sbeII bending right at the brass cup


----------



## shooteminthelips

www.drakekiller.com read this it will make sense. Federal Blue Box all the way. It isn't about how fast a pellet is traveling, it is about pattern density. More pellets on birds equal more dead birds plain and simple. Speed doesn't equal more dead birds at longer ranges. A pellet leaving the barrel at 1600 ft will be the same speed as a pellet leaving the barell at 1400 ft at 50 yards. The only true way to know is to pattern your gun with diffrent loads and chokes. I pattern mine at 50 yards at 6ft piece of paper and then use a clear 30 inch circle to draw around the biggest portion of the pattern. Then count the pellets and you will know for sure!


----------



## Buck25

shooteminthelips said:


> http://www.drakekiller.com read this it will make sense. Federal Blue Box all the way. It isn't about how fast a pellet is traveling, it is about pattern density. More pellets on birds equal more dead birds plain and simple. Speed doesn't equal more dead birds at longer ranges. A pellet leaving the barrel at 1600 ft will be the same speed as a pellet leaving the barell at 1400 ft at 50 yards. The only true way to know is to pattern your gun with diffrent loads and chokes. I pattern mine at 50 yards at 6ft piece of paper and then use a clear 30 inch circle to draw around the biggest portion of the pattern. Then count the pellets and you will know for sure!


shootem- we have been down this road before...The air drag on a pellet is a function of the cube of velocity. A pellet traveling twice as fast will have 8 times the drag. so you are kind of right that the faster pellet does slow down quicker but its not going to be the same exact speed at 50 yards. The faster pellet will still be going faster.

If i had to choose between a 1600 fps and 1400 fps i would definitely choose the 1600 if they patterned the same. I agree with others who have explained that pattern down range is more important then anything else for the most part. I've just heard this down range they are going the same speed thing before and it bothers me so i did some research. found this chart http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/do ... istics.pdf


----------



## shooteminthelips

Point being you will never get a faster pellets to pattern as well as a a much slower load. Think of it like a smooth bore muzzle loader, the more powder that you put behind round ball and a smooth bore with no rifling the more the ball will knuckle. This is why when our accentors fought against England in the war we had the advantage with being able to kill at longer ranges. Our rifles were rifled, which got to bullet to rotate consistently with more powder behind it. Think about it, a shotgun is basically a big smooth bore muzzle loader with a lot of round balls or pellets. The more powder and energy you put behind the pellets the more they space and the more your pattern blows apart. I have test patterned many diffrent brands of BB's with diffrent pay loads and diffrent speeds. Everytime you get a bigger pay load with less speed the pattern density on paper is always way better. And not just a little bit up to 30% better.


----------



## possumfoot

Buck25 said:


> PJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I shoot Xpert 3 inch 2s for snows. No problems, no complaints. Federal powder is WAY dirtier than Winchester IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> i'l have to disagree with you there. I shot around a case of federals late last fall(with no oil in my gun) and the action was amazingly clean...the half a case of experts this spring again with no oil made the gun pretty filthy. Not a huge deal to me though.
Click to expand...

 :rollin: :rollin:

nosh!t..

oil is what causes te=he powder to stick in the gun..

i get more blow back from feds than x-perts..

3.5s will crimp up whem you stack em in an extention.. 3in will not..
i like rem sportsman better, but the experts are cheaper..

ofcourse hevi metal and hypersonics will kill better..
thats like me saying hevi-goose killes better than the hypersonics.. 
though i still say the hevi-steel was the best shell i have ever shot (price vs power).

i shoot 3in fiochii T's and BBB's at snows.. i tend to find em on sale so they are cheap and a bird under 40 it does not matter what your shooting.. plus if they are stacked up over you the bigger pellets can knock out a few more.. i perfer to take on longer shoots with 3.5 bbs..


----------



## 6162rk

winchester is what america shoots. shoot in the head instead of the body. no problem.


----------



## shooteminthelips

6162rk your an *** shooter from way back. No one has pounded them in the *** more then you in your many years of snow goose shooting. But then again it is much expected when your shooting them from a ditch all the time! oke: :beer: :rollin:


----------



## Original Goosebuster

shooteminthelips said:


> 6162rk your an a$$ shooter from way back. No one has pounded them in the a$$ more then you in your many years of snow goose shooting. But then again it is much expected when your shooting them from a ditch all the time! oke: :beer: :rollin:


you should spend less time poking peole and more time on a treadmill! oke:


----------



## shooteminthelips

Yeah well my fat *** can still beat you out of a blind and drop 2 before you get off a shot. Want try it sometime?


----------



## Original Goosebuster

i would but that would involve being in the same field or remotely close to you.
:rollin: It would be a close battle but i do know one thing; I could beat you in a spelling bee!


----------



## goosehunternd

Shoot 'em. Sitting up, taking two shots and then yelling take 'em dosent count.

I've shot Xpert's for 8 years religiously and I know I've killed a couple. Either way there better than estates. I've gutted more than 1 bird at 50 with 3 1/2 BB's. I definitely don't hate em.


----------



## Buck25

possumfoot said:


> Buck25 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I shoot Xpert 3 inch 2s for snows. No problems, no complaints. Federal powder is WAY dirtier than Winchester IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> i'l have to disagree with you there. I shot around a case of federals late last fall(with no oil in my gun) and the action was amazingly clean...the half a case of experts this spring again with no oil made the gun pretty filthy. Not a huge deal to me though.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :rollin: :rollin:
> 
> nosh!t..
> 
> oil is what causes te=he powder to stick in the gun..
> 
> i get more blow back from feds than x-perts..
> 
> 3.5s will crimp up whem you stack em in an extention.. 3in will not..
> i like rem sportsman better, but the experts are cheaper..
> 
> ofcourse hevi metal and hypersonics will kill better..
> thats like me saying hevi-goose killes better than the hypersonics..
> though i still say the hevi-steel was the best shell i have ever shot (price vs power).
> 
> i shoot 3in fiochii T's and BBB's at snows.. i tend to find em on sale so they are cheap and a bird under 40 it does not matter what your shooting.. plus if they are stacked up over you the bigger pellets can knock out a few more.. i perfer to take on longer shoots with 3.5 bbs..
Click to expand...

what is funny about this?


----------



## the professor

The ammo companies are lucky that guys who pattern their guns and learn ballistics are the minority. They bank on the fact that there will always be those guys that drink the coolaid and abhorrently believe that expensive shells automatically kill more birds.

This is the software I use to see a typical baseline performance for any given shotgun load.
http://shotgunballistics.blogspot.com/

The simple fact is that most hunters cannot capitalize on the small gains that they would actually get with some of the premium steel loads. Sure hypersonics, etc. will retain great energy at distance, but with that comes increased recoil, and the possibility that the shooter flinches or jerks the gun in anticipation of the shot, stops his lead, and then pulls *** feathers on the bird anyways. I see a lot of guys out there that cannot shoot soundly with 3.5" loads. Give em 2 3/4" federal classic BB, and they will stack birds like cordwood though.

Technology is no substitute for learning good fundamentals and learning how shotgun pellets do what they do. Sure you might get lucky and that $25 box of over hyped over marketed re-invent the wheel steel will work wonders immediately out of your gun, but 9/10 times its the archer not the arrow.

Sometimes I wonder when somebody says how great an expensive load works, what they are basing that on, and if they are actually just saying they are great to justify to themselves spending the money. I have yet to find an expensive steel shot load that works lights out better than a comparable value load. the only $20 box of steel shot I ever bought more than a few boxes of was federal ultrashok 3.5" 1's. I couldn't find a load of 1's that patterned even close to those. once I start spending upwards of $1 per round on steel, I feel like I might as well buy tungsten on sale for $1.50 a round. Throw tungsten into the mix and then yes...expensive shells do perform better. :thumb:


----------



## lesserhunter

i have patterned my gun with kent, federal blue box, federal red box, hevimetal, black cloud, remington cheapos,estates and experts. the black cloud hands down patterned better out of my gun/choke combination followed closely by hevimetal then estates, then federal blue box, the others didnt pattern good enough that i would ever shoot them at a goose. so in some cases the expensive loads do pattern better which in turn will kill birds better. obviously if cheap shells patterned as well as the cloud out of my gun i would shoot it and pay $12/box instead of $22 but id rather spend the extra money and A-kill birds better with the good pattern and B- shoot a load that i am confident with.


----------



## possumfoot

Buck25 said:


> possumfoot said:
> 
> 
> 
> :rollin: :rollin:
> 
> nosh!t..
> 
> oil is what causes te=he powder to stick in the gun..
> 
> i get more blow back from feds than x-perts..
> 
> 3.5s will crimp up whem you stack em in an extention.. 3in will not..
> i like rem sportsman better, but the experts are cheaper..
> 
> ofcourse hevi metal and hypersonics will kill better..
> thats like me saying hevi-goose killes better than the hypersonics..
> though i still say the hevi-steel was the best shell i have ever shot (price vs power).
> 
> i shoot 3in fiochii T's and BBB's at snows.. i tend to find em on sale so they are cheap and a bird under 40 it does not matter what your shooting.. plus if they are stacked up over you the bigger pellets can knock out a few more.. i perfer to take on longer shoots with 3.5 bbs..
> 
> 
> 
> what is funny about this?
Click to expand...

are you telling me you dont know what causes used powder to build up in your gun???

well excess oil is the reason..

i guess there are still alot of people that dont know how to *PROPERLY* oil a gun.


----------



## Drundel

[email protected] said:


> what do people think about snow goose blackclouds also federal coming out with #1 in the blue box 3 inch load


I like the snowgoose BC #2 load and I will be getting a case of blue box #1 for sure. I am really going to be looking for the 3.5 xpert in #2 for the days when the snows really finish. BC #2 are good, but expensive and I couldn't find any Hyper #2 to test out this year. #1 were pretty impressive though.


----------



## Buck25

possomfoot - read what i wrote. Both with the federals and the experts i used no oil. The reason i clarified that my gun was dry both times was to show that it wasn't due to oil that my gun was dirty from the experts. :thumb:


----------



## Hunter_58346

Comparing Xperts to Black Cloud or Hypersonics is like comparing a Chevette to a Caddy. You get what you pay for. A friend we hunt with shoot xperts and we found one of his wads in the decoys during the early season and the wad still had 12 pellets rusted together and still stuck to the bottom of the wad. You shoot a $1500.00 firearm and shoot $9.99 ammo and expect miracles. You get what you pay for.


----------



## possumfoot

Buck25 said:


> possomfoot - read what i wrote. Both with the federals and the experts i used no oil. The reason i clarified that my gun was dry both times was to show that it wasn't due to oil that my gun was dirty from the experts. :thumb:


ok, i got ya..

i can tell ya i can not shoot blue box feds without glasses.. almost never get blow back from the xperts..

on anther note
why shoot expensive stuff at snows when you can look at em cross and knock em down??


----------



## jcnelsn1

I guess I would shoot hevishot if money was no object, but money is a concern so I shoot xperts and federal blue box (both around $10/a box) and they work very well and kill plenty of geese at legitimate (and even illegitmate) ranges. I went through 6 or 7 cases of shells this spring. That cost me $600 to $700. The savings over hevishot, blackcloud, etc. was well worth it.


----------



## Wetland Warriors

I'm in college and as all college kids, my pockets aren't full. Therefore I don't shoot the expensive shells such as hevi shot (which definitely make a difference in knockdown power). I have however found a happy medium. Kent fasteel 1 shot is all I shot last season and had great results. Honkers, snows, or ducks I loved it, and was not once unhappy with it's performance. It shoots clean, cycles great, and patterns great for me out of my beretta 3901 with a modified choke. I'm willing to spend the extra few bucks and take advantage of ammo sales to get Kent Fasteel over cheaper xpert or federal waterfowl loads.


----------



## the professor

Hunter_58346 said:


> Comparing Xperts to Black Cloud or Hypersonics is like comparing a Chevette to a Caddy. You get what you pay for. A friend we hunt with shoot xperts and we found one of his wads in the decoys during the early season and the wad still had 12 pellets rusted together and still stuck to the bottom of the wad. You shoot a $1500.00 firearm and shoot $9.99 ammo and expect miracles. You get what you pay for.


I've picked up black cloud wads when patterning in the winter that had pellets stuck in the bottom of the shot cup...


----------

