# Twins Off-Season



## KEN W

Hope the Twins do a lot better than the past few years.No free agent signings have been successful the past 3-4 years.

The past year was phenominal considering all the misses in personnel.

They would have made the playoffs with Santana.Should have kept him and let him go free agent after this season.2 number 1 picks for losing him would have been as good or better than what they got from the Mets.

The trade with Tampa Bay was also a mistake.....they basically traded Garza and Bartlet for Young and Harris.Bartlett is better than Harris and I would rather have Garza than Young.

Now they have 2 less quality pitchers and to many outfielders.

Lamb,Everett,Hernandez,and Monroe were all busts even though 
Hernandez allowed Liriano to get well before being cut.

They need to dump Young and also get a shortstop and third baseman.They keep talking about the future......their best players are ready now not 3-4 years from now.


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## Shu

Ken, what about moving Cuddy to 3rd and have Young, Gomez, and Spahn in the outfield. Pretty tought to move his arm to 3rd base but it might work out.

I agree we need an everyday shortstop. Punto is a good utility guy but not an everyday shortstop.


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## Norm70

i don't understand what you have against delmon? Hes 22 hit just about .300, has one of he best arms in the MLB, hes fast, yes he didn't hit for alot of power, but neither did anyone else. His RBI totals were also ok

If we talk about clutch hitting then i think you need to talk about getting rid of mauer and moreneau also. Which would never happen.

Garza was a prick and i don't think anyone can argue how well the starting staff pitched this year. Bartlett was terrible defensively and was IMO a big liabilty at the plate. Punto is amazing defensively and hit as good or better than 2006, all be it with many less times at bat. I know gomez didn't hit .300 but who would you rather have in the 9 hole bartlett or gomez? You could say bartlett would hit 2 but i think gomez may find himself their next yr and punto back to 9.

I dunno i think cuddyer days might be numbered. Hes had plenty of years to develop and had one above average year. I think him or kubel may not be with the team next year. Or as always they could move him back to 3rd. I wouldn't mind seeing that, but Boucher i think more than proved he belongs at the major league level.

Harris's average was not great, not many RBI's or HRs but the guy could play all over and was a very very clutch player.

Should be interesting to see who they subtract more than who they sign.


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## fishhook

what about trading cuddy. i know he has i high salary, but he seems injury prone to me and we need some right handed pop. I'm not sure he's that guy. I heard pat burrell was probably going to be made available after the playoffs this year...that's intriguing to me.

Young is still a youngster and he's what we have to show for garza so i'm not willing to give up on him yet. He'll be ok. He's only 26 (i think) years old.

We need some bullpen help. Our bullpen other than nathan is just a mess.

Going to be an interesting offseason for the twins. A couple impact players and they could be a contender again next year.

but, sadly we all know they'll go pick up everyone's washed up castaways hoping to get that one last year out of them.


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## KEN W

Young is a liability as an outfielder.Slow feet and no range.With 5 outfielders he looks like the one to go in a trade to me.

Garza has straightened himself out down in Tampa and to me is clearly better than what we recieved.Especially if you keep Bartlett also.

I would like to see them go after Mariners third baseman Adrian Beltre again.The Mariners wanted of of those 5 starting pitchers.Might be able to trade less now that the season is over.Third base solved

Also they should go after free agent White Sox shortstop Orlando Cabrera.Shortstop solved.


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## Chuck Smith

I can't believe people are bashing Young. Yep he did not have the power numbers.....but his average was .290's, 69 RBI's he also had 570+ Ab's which shows he is durable for the whole season. Yes his RBi's are down but look who he was hitting behind Mornoue. Justin eats up alot of RBI"S.

Plus he is not very old so you can't give up on him.

Now people are mentioning Garaz and how he had a great year... He was 11-9 in 30 starts. That is about on par with all of the twins starters. So he would have been the same as Perkins, Blackburn, Slowey, Baker. He was a cancer in the Twins dugout. But he has cleaned up his act. But did that come after he got traded. Did the trade make him change his tune.

I don't like to say this but I agree that Cuddy's days are numbered unless he does not mind taking a back seat to Span. They said that they have tried him at third again but he is not comfortable and does not like it. So his options are very limited.


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## bowhunter04

Garza wasn't going to straighten himself out as a Twin. He didn't want to listen to the Twins pitching coaches. He needed a change of pace and the Twins recognized that. They traded him for one of the top prospects in baseball in Young. I don't think he will be as bad as some people think. He's only 22 years old. He's got a lot of time to blossom into a power hitter. The Twins can't give up on him yet.

Right now I think Cuddyer should be the odd man out in the twins outfield. Historically, with the exception of his one great year, he's pretty similar to Young except he's 6 years older. He has similar power numbers with a worse batting average. He is stronger defensively than Young. But with Span and Gomez in the outfield with him, he doesn't have to cover as much ground.


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## talkdirty2em

I agree with Norm70 I like Young, Harris, Punto and for the most part the whole team the whole problom with the twins is they make good players and build a good team then get rid of them. I hated to see Guzmon, Jones, Bartlett, Koskie, Rivas, Mankeiwicz, Santana, Hunter and I can go on and on I think they have got rid of alot of good players in the past. Look were ex twins have gone 2 alot of high market clubs comin as a fan for a long *** time it makes me mad and happy at the same time I just wish Carl Pohlad wasnt such a tight ***. as far as it goes for the pitchin staff in my opinion Bonzer sucked this year Reyes didnt have a bad year but not impressed with him. Baker, Nathan,Blackburn, Slowey, Perkins and the rest of the crew are doin there job. Not the biggest fan of Kubel either and he is slower than molases in the winter time hes clutch at times but his d really sucks. I think the young guns might prove them selfs more next year. Would sure like to know what was up Mauer and Mourneus *** in the final game of the season obviously not a 08 World Series Ring. THERES ALWAYS NEXT YEAR... :beer:


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## water_swater

Ok, that last post rocked me. You metioned good players and "Guzman, Mientkiewicz, Bartlett, Koskie, Rivas, and Jones" in the same sentence with Torii Hunter and Johan Santana. Those guys are all trash and did next to nothing for the teams they play on now. Guzman had one good year this year. Bartlett - .286 1 Hr 36 RBI 46 R solid defender, Rivas hit .218 in 206 ab's for pittsburg, Guzman hit .316 9 HR 55 RBI 77 R, Hit .277 in 285 ab's, Jacque Jones made it two weeks into the season, Carlos Silva got rocked all year.

Harris hit .265 with 57 runs and 49 RBI, more run production than Bartlett.

Torii Hunter hit .278 with 78 RBI 85 Runs, Gomez hit .258 with 58 RBI and 79 runs. Less offense but more range, really similar numbers if your not looking at HR's and Gomez is young.

Delmon Young hit .290 (better than Torii), had 69 RBI and 80 runs. When Torii was in his first full season without injury he hit .261 his lifetime average is .272 but he has more pop than Delmon at this stage.


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## talkdirty2em

Nah Nah Nah......Nah Nah Nah now on SportsCenter we have waterswater with Chris Berman :roll: Nice stats there Madden! 8) Guzman had speed was a good d player and in my opinion had a good attitude about the game when with minnesota. Jones well the only thing I can think of is he was alot faster in the outfield than jason Kuebuls fat *** when he played outfeild before delmon and his sling shot arm came into the picture. Bartlett Had great speed and was good with buntin the ball and he did a nice job fillin in as a lead off possition when castilla left at the end of the year in 07. I thought Koskie was an animal and made some nice plays at 3rd base like punto does now. In my opinion they had great chemistry together as a team and won american league central titles consecutively not tryin to get technical or anything Didnt say **** about silva either he sucks a big one


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## fylling35

Once again...we need a RH guy with some pop...not 12-17 pop...but 22-27 POP. The easiest place to find one is from the 3b spot...another team need.

There is no way that the twins will be getting rid of Young. Very recently he was one of the top hitting and POWER hitting prospects...give the guy a contract for 6-8 years...he will produce. Did you guys see some of the balls he hit out...the homers he hit were GONE!!

Kubel is the same way...was one of the top hitting prospects in the game not to long ago...he has even said that he finally started trusting that knee again this year. He should get at least one more year to prove what he has.

As far as Cuddy...if he goes (which I wouldn't cry over)...we need a guaranteed RH stick...one with proven power...or teams will be calling up lefties just to face us.

Harris was a small disappointment but when he is on he his on, just a little to off this year.

Punto is a utility player not a starter.

I also like the idea of having Gomez as a 4th OF or letting him focus more on hitting in the minors...just think what a terror he would be with a 280 average even. Glad he moved down the order. But then again, if you would have given me Gomez's numbers last spring (.258, 7hr, 59RBI, 79 RUNS, 33 SB) I would have taken that from him in a heartbeat. Its just hard to watch him swing and miss. He also hit 24 doubles...which doesn't blow me out of the water but its good enough for a guy batting in the 8 or 9 hole.

Hope they make a move worth reading about this year!


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## water_swater

So let me get this strait you think we should have Bartlett, and Guzman up the middle, Koskie at 3rd base, and Jones in right. You probably want Mientkiewicz at 1st two, maybe Jason Tyner in left. I wont argue with Torii, I didnt think he was worth what the Angels paid him, but he was a class act, and played his a$$ off every day. Losing Santana is tough but nobody inlcuding the Twins thought they would be in the hunt and basically choke their way out of the playoffs. There were making moves for 2010, if you think about everyone on the field should be in their best years, if the pitching improves like it should the Twins will be legit if they stay injury free and add one bat. The twins have one problem no pop from the outfield. The only legitimate RBI guy right now is Morneau. Mauer is a two hitter, if Delmon develops the way he's projected, the twins could have a scary offense if any hitting prospect develops.


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## TK33

You can't get rid of Cuddyer in right, he has a game changing arm. ESPN, Fox, etc have all addressed the strength and accuracy in the game, and Cuddy is tops. You can't underestimate how that changes the decisions that 3rd base coaches make when sending the runner home or to third from first. Delmon is slow at 22, what is he going to be at 30? Punto saves runs, Need to trade or acquire a power dog righty at the plate. Morneau is the best all around hitter in the game and needs protection. Trade whoever, but to lose cuddyer would be a shame.


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## smalls

TK33 said:


> You can't get rid of Cuddyer in right, he has a game changing arm. ESPN, Fox, etc have all addressed the strength and accuracy in the game, and Cuddy is tops. You can't underestimate how that changes the decisions that 3rd base coaches make when sending the runner home or to third from first.


And you can't underestimate how many balls Span go to that Cuddy couldn't have dreamt of catching. Span's legs saves more runs than Cuddy's arm. If everyone's healthy come April 1, I'd like to see Delmon in right, Gomez in center with Dspan covering left.

Now I am not advocating dumping Cuddy, but it seems as though you're coveting his 2006 season a little too much. Aside from that campaign he's been fairly light hitting, impatient and injury prone...not exactly the triple crown of tools. Right now I think he's our 4th outfielder and DH against southpaws.

I'd love a righthanded power hitting third baseman as much as the next guy, but there's not alot available that fits that mold. IMO, this team would be better off signing a quality reliever (or two) and a good starting pitcher (of which there is a glut of in this FA class).


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## TK33

You talk about legs in right but not in left?

I want spann in left, then Gomez can play a more straight up center to help cuddy in right. With our light offense, we need to save bases, I agree that spann would get to more balls than cuddy but the number of bases saved by cuddy's arm impacts the game more.

I agree with you on 3rd base, we need to make that position what it was when we had gaetti.


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## smalls

Our "light" offense scored something like the 4th most runs in the entire majors last year...not too shabby.

As far as Delmon v. Cuddy in right, it's a toss up. Neither's defense garners a supreme amount of praise. Delmon takes routes that look like something out of the Sunday "Family Circus" cartoon and the very term "Cuddy's speed" is an oxymoron. Neither one of them holds a candle defensively to Span or Gogo even with their rocket powered arms.

Since Neshek is now going to have TJ surgery and will miss the entire '09 season, our need for a power rightie out of the bullpen just became more pressing. We'll be forced to make a decision on guys like Perkins, Bonser, Humber and Mulvey between this year and next. It's time to shift some of these guys around to get "something" for them and prevent them from becoming the next JD Durbin.


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## TK33

Joe Crede, 1yr deal.

I don't know that this will help that much, I don't see him being any better than Buscher.


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## KEN W

TK33 said:


> Joe Crede, 1yr deal.
> 
> I don't know that this will help that much, I don't see him being any better than Buscher.


A 2008 All-star not better than Buscher?

Crede is a gold glover and can hit 20 more homeruns than Buscher or Harris.


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## jgat

I was pumped about Crede. I have been hoping the Twins would pony up for him for the last 2 months. If he stays healthy he will drastically improve our infield and provide some MUCH needed power in the middle of the lineup.


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## Chuck Smith

Crede is a great sign....

A right handed power hitter that can hit anywhere in the line up 3-6. Put him behind Mornoe or ahead of him. With a healthy cuddy and kubel in the mix.

I would love to see mauer move to a #2 hitter. His power numbers are lacking. he does everything else great. Think of it you could have a .300 hitter at #2 when one of the speed demons gets on (gomes, casilla, span) and then do hit and runs with mauer. Then have crede, mornoe, cuddy, kubel, and young following suit.

You could have that right, left, right, left thing all the coaches love to eat up bull pen's in the later innings.

I am pumped up. Now just what will be done in the outfield?


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## Norm70

Chuck Smith said:


> Crede is a great sign....
> 
> A right handed power hitter that can hit anywhere in the line up 3-6. Put him behind *Mornoe* or ahead of him. With a healthy cuddy and kubel in the mix.
> 
> I would love to see mauer move to a #2 hitter. His power numbers are lacking. he does everything else great. Think of it you could have a .300 hitter at #2 when one of the speed demons gets on (gomes, casilla, span) and then do hit and runs with mauer. Then have crede, *mornoe*, cuddy, kubel, and young following suit.
> 
> You could have that right, left, right, left thing all the coaches love to eat up bull pen's in the later innings.
> 
> I am pumped up. Now just what will be done in the outfield?


careful chuck...i almost thought you meant monroe....(shuttering) uke:


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## Chuck Smith

Yeah.....spelling is not one of my strong suits.


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## jgat

Norm70 said:


> careful chuck...i almost thought you meant monroe....(shuttering) uke:


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## TK33

KEN W said:


> TK33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Crede, 1yr deal.
> 
> I don't know that this will help that much, I don't see him being any better than Buscher.
> 
> 
> 
> A 2008 All-star not better than Buscher?
> 
> Crede is a gold glover and can hit 20 more homeruns than Buscher or Harris.
Click to expand...

If he stays healthy. He's a career .257 hitter.

My only problems with him is his health and knack for the backward K. When healthy he reminds me of Lenny Dykstra.


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## Ron Gilmore

fylling35 said:


> Once again...we need a RH guy with some pop...not 12-17 pop...but 22-27 POP. The easiest place to find one is from the 3b spot...another team need.
> 
> There is no way that the twins will be getting rid of Young. Very recently he was one of the top hitting and POWER hitting prospects...give the guy a contract for 6-8 years...he will produce. Did you guys see some of the balls he hit out...the homers he hit were GONE!!
> 
> Kubel is the same way...was one of the top hitting prospects in the game not to long ago...he has even said that he finally started trusting that knee again this year. He should get at least one more year to prove what he has.
> 
> As far as Cuddy...if he goes (which I wouldn't cry over)...we need a guaranteed RH stick...one with proven power...or teams will be calling up lefties just to face us.
> 
> Harris was a small disappointment but when he is on he his on, just a little to off this year.
> 
> Punto is a utility player not a starter.
> 
> I also like the idea of having Gomez as a 4th OF or letting him focus more on hitting in the minors...just think what a terror he would be with a 280 average even. Glad he moved down the order. But then again, if you would have given me Gomez's numbers last spring (.258, 7hr, 59RBI, 79 RUNS, 33 SB) I would have taken that from him in a heartbeat. Its just hard to watch him swing and miss. He also hit 24 doubles...which doesn't blow me out of the water but its good enough for a guy batting in the 8 or 9 hole.
> 
> Hope they make a move worth reading about this year!


I saw this thread being brought back and I remembered this post!!!!!!!! Good call!!!!!!!!

My buddy Rick and I have been talking about 3rd for the last two seasons hoping they would find a fix with power. Both of us like Buscher but he is not of the same caliber as Crede.

You can expect him to hit 20-30 HR and drive in 100 runs! I think the issues with his back are a concern, but if they prove not to be an issue it is a great find!

This is the first signing in the off season that has me excited!


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## KEN W

TK33 said:



> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TK33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Crede, 1yr deal.
> 
> I don't know that this will help that much, I don't see him being any better than Buscher.
> 
> 
> 
> A 2008 All-star not better than Buscher?
> 
> Crede is a gold glover and can hit 20 more homeruns than Buscher or Harris.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If he stays healthy. He's a career .257 hitter.
> 
> My only problems with him is his health and knack for the backward K. When healthy he reminds me of Lenny Dykstra.
Click to expand...

His health has nothing to do with if he is better than Buscher.The Twins made a good move to sign him for 2.5 mil with incentives......not a lot of risk there.


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## TK33

KEN W said:


> TK33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TK33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joe Crede, 1yr deal.
> 
> I don't know that this will help that much, I don't see him being any better than Buscher.
> 
> 
> 
> A 2008 All-star not better than Buscher?
> 
> Crede is a gold glover and can hit 20 more homeruns than Buscher or Harris.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If he stays healthy. He's a career .257 hitter.
> 
> My only problems with him is his health and knack for the backward K. When healthy he reminds me of Lenny Dykstra.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> His health has nothing to do with if he is better than Buscher.The Twins made a good move to sign him for 2.5 mil with incentives......not a lot of risk there.
Click to expand...

It does if he gets hurt :lol: Buscher day is coming I guess.
the twins front office did a great job with this deal. I hope crede does well but he has only 125 career hr's, 17 last year. I am not getting excited yet.


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## djleye

On a side not I did run into smalls this am looking for a Kubel jersey in Scheels........good to see you, even if you don't know baseball talent!!! :wink:


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## smalls

djleye said:


> On a side not I did run into smalls this am looking for a Kubel jersey in Scheels........godd to see you, even if you don't know baseball talent!!! :wink:


Feliz Navidad dj! Indeed good to see you as well. By the way, what kind of product was that you were using in your hair....looking good! :lol:


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## djleye

I think it is called "barely there"!!!!

You guys that need hair to look good!!!! :eyeroll: 
Guy like me and Mav, we pull it off without any!!!!!


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