# Holding a Point



## Dusty05 (Aug 21, 2005)

Sorry if this has has come up recently, but I am trying to get my dog to hold a point. She is a 7 month old Brittany, and she will point when I put a wing on a pole w/ some fishing line. She will hold the point at first, but with alittle movement, she goes after it like there's no tommorrow. Any advice?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

yes, shes way to old for the wing on a string, so stop doing that.

Get her on wild adult birds that she can't catch if possible. I don't know what state you live in so it may not be. She has to learn that if she chases the bird it will get away. If you can get her on wild birds she will probably steady up on her own which is easiest on you and her.

I'm not real big on check cording them to a stop let their instinctive point develop if you can. You shouldn't have to teach pointers to point its something they do naturally, shes young and it could easily take another 7 months fro her to get steady.

The game with the string is developing the flush so don't do it any more,ok.
good luck, brits are real nice dogs

if their aren't any wild birds where you are post up and I can give the next best suggestion


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## tallgrasser (Nov 18, 2005)

I agree bobm, she's much too young to worry about it. and I agree also with the stopping the wing "play time". All that's going to do is teach her to sight point. You want your dog to point with her nose (On scent). get her on wild birds, she'll figure it out.


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## wirehairman (Oct 31, 2005)

As usual, Bobm hit the nail on the head. Stop using the wing on a string and try to get her on wild birds. The pointing instinct should develop naturally, and then you can "polish" her after it does (i.e. stop any creeping, teach steady to flush, and other niceties).


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## thunderhead (Dec 22, 2005)

Ideally you would want to run her on wild birds, and let the birds teach her that she cannot get too close and cannot catch them. If that is not an option, you could invest in some bird launches. I would not use the manual, but instead use one that launches by remote, as that will give you more control over the flush. When using the launchers you still would want to use a good flying bird. As soon as the pup hits the scent cone of the bird, launch the bird. When the pup is starting to point, launch the bird the instant that the pup starts to move. This will teach the pup that her movement will cause the bird to fly away. I would not say anything to her while pup is on point, as that will only break her concentration on the bird. When pup will let you walk in and flush the bird, you could shoot those for her, provided that she is properly exposed to gun fire by that time.


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## David M (Jan 21, 2006)

I don't think anyone should use the wing on a string. It's a fun game for people watching and say oh look at that pup point! But you are not doing your dog or yourself any good. A true point is done with the nose, not the eyes. You can't teach a dog to point, it is a natural ability that they either have or don't. The best thing to do is expose your dog as much as possible to wild birds. Only shoot a bird if you are certain that the dog pointed it. 7 months is young, the dog probably needs more experience before you can judge how well it will point in the years to come.

I have a 3 year old Wirehaired Pointing Griffon and it took her some time before I was confident in her ability. She was born in July and her first hunting season at just over a year old took alot of patience on my part. There were several pheasants and about a dozen ruffed grouse that I never even raised my gun for because she didn't point them although they were close birds with good shot opportunities. I gave her tons of exposure to wild birds around home, but in SE MN there are few roosters and a lot of hens. At two years old I took her on a 3 day North Dakota pheasant hunt and each day she improved tremendously with all the birds we were able to find. Now she is a great dog and I have learned to "always trust your dog", she can smell the birds after all, I sure can't!

Enjoy your pup and best of luck to you!


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## David M (Jan 21, 2006)

I forgot to add this tip that an experienced trainer told me, and I think it helped my dog.

Teach your dog to whoa at home and in your yard. You know how dogs are always excited to go through doors first? They are excited about birds too. Make your dog whoa before it is allowed to go through any door, then have the people go through and make the dog wait to be last through the door. This should help if you have a dog that points until you get near the bird and then the dog suddenly thinks it wants to flush the bird when you're close. Besides helping with pointing, your friends will be impressed by how polite your dog is.

I also have my dog whoa before I let her out of her crate.

DO NOT GIVE THE WHOA command to your dog when it is in the presence of birds! If you do it will not teach the dog to point, rather it will simply teach the dog to stop when it smells a bird.


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## Dusty05 (Aug 21, 2005)

WOW I was way off! Thanks for all the help guys. I live here in the great ND so I will try to get her out. This is definitly a time that I don't mind at all being told that I am wrong. I have never trained a pointer before so my timeline of what she is ready to do is all messed up. I guess I am alittle nervous about letting her run in the open b/c she hasn't done it yet. I am afraid that I will let her go and them find her hours later. I know you guys know what you are doing so I hope you don't mind hearing lots of questions from me! Thanks


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## thunderhead (Dec 22, 2005)

Dusty,

Your pup is at a perfect age to get an education on the wild birds. Exposure to wild birds at a young age is something teaches things that cannot quite be duplicated with pen raised birds. Have fun, and enjoy watching your pup learn.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

And this time of year there are some very wiley birds out there more than happy to a pup a thing or two. Seems they teach mine something new everyday. :wink:


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## birdy (Jan 29, 2006)

You need to whoa train your dog. This allows you to firm up the point and to hold point as long as desired. Then if the dog busts the bird, you can reprimand the dog for breaking the whoa command rather than for busting the bird. ( you don't want to discourage the birdiness) I disagree with a previous post that says never to use whoa command around a bird. I would refer you to a great book and training DVD that you can get cheaply by joining the NAVHDA. Go to their website and I believe for 65 bucks you can join the organization and get both of these items included. Believe me... this is a steal!! I am currently training my fourth hunting dog which is 4.5 months old. I am using the whoa table already and just taking it real slow realizing that this is still a puppy. One of my other dogs I waited until they were over 1 yr. with fantastic results. You will really like the training video...puts it all together for you. PM me if you want any other info.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Dusty, you don't teach a pointer to point its just instinctive.

Mostly you just let them learn in the field. The things you have to do is obedience train the dog so she will come when called, thats number one.

If you have already done that( taught basic obedience) then before you let her out to hunt drill her a few times in the yard on coming when called, whoaing and anything else you have already taught her, even the sit command. The point of this little exercise before running her on birds is to get her in the frame of mind of obeying commands without the added distraction of birds and scent. You shouldn't have to worry about her running off. If she isn't obedience trained go back to that first, at a minimum she should come when called.

However at first she will probably chase birds that flush until she figures out they cannot be caught so be prepared to see her run a long distance after them at first, I have watched mine run out agood 1/2 to 3/4 of a mile when young.Wear white clothes, bring a loud whistle and train away from any busy roads for this reason. She will soon figure out chasing birds isn't profitable and start to return to you sooner. These are just things all pointers learn.

When she chases after flushed birds call her once or twice and if she ignores you and continues to run after the bird just shut up and watch, repeatedly screaming won't help and it actaully will hurt because she wil learn to tune you out.

When she gives up the chase and returns say nothing, don't scold her for not coming she will associate the scolding with returning which is just the opposite of what you want. Just hold her by the collar and pet her for a minute to calm her then give her a tap on the head and release her with "ok" or whatever release command you want to use and start looking for some more birds. It will all come together just be patience she is the equivalent of a 8-9 year old kid so don't worry about screwups. Brits are soft dogs that respond best to encouragement so don't try to push her too hard and don't get physical with her. Brits are smart but need to pick up things at their own pace.

The suggestion to get some good books an videos is a very good one. Just don't make the all too common mistake of expecting too much too soon. Let her be a pup. 
Whoa training is a good idea but I would let her develop a strong love of birds first, a real birdy bold dog is easy to train and bring in some, one thats nervous and uncertain and worried about any commands can become shy or worse bird shy. At her age nothing will teach her more than time spent in the field after wild birds. You are blessed to live in an area that that is possible.

Good luck

One more thing, never ever let her roam or hunt alone. That will encourage self hunting and hardheadedness which is hard to change in a soft dog like a Brit.


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## Dusty05 (Aug 21, 2005)

If I can't get her around alot of live birds, what would be the next best thing. I am new to pheasant hunting so I only know of couple good spots.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I would forget the next best thing and find some more good spots. There are a lot of good places that may be posted that for the asking will probably let you run the dog for training for the next three months or so especially if you tell them your not looking for permission to hunt,
(although I would not specify I didn't want to hunt unless they refuse your request to train) you might luck into some spots you can hunt next fall.

Find enough of them that you don't wear out your welcome. You can only do it for the next couple or three months because the birds will start to nest after that and you should not disturb the birds then.

Look for roosts, low grass areas, next to good cover, watch at dusk and observe where the birds like to light in each field. Run the dog thru them at dawn and she will get multiple bird contacts. Thats what she needs.

The next best thing is using pigeons for training but to be honest its a lot of work keeping pigeons and you don't know enough to bother with it for just one dog, especially your first dog. Its a lot easier to find some more spots to work her and she will learn more on the real thing. You don't have to do it 7 days a week, two or three times a week for an hour or two with some encouragement will be plenty.

Pointers are natural hunters she already wants to hunt its in her blood if you just give her some exposure. Take her for walks in bird country she will figure it out.

If you know anyone with a trained dog you might want to walk them together a few times she will pick it up faster from a broke dog but after she starts hunting pheasants on her own stop using the older dog and let her develop her own instincts so she doesn't get dependent on the older dog.


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## Dusty05 (Aug 21, 2005)

Thanks alot for the advice. I am going to start doing what you suggested.


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