# Do we need a new tax category?



## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

Should this really be valued and taxed at the same rate as farmland?

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/album_page.php?pic_id=1100

I think land purchased for this type of thing should have its very own category and taxed accordingly.


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## Draker16 (Nov 23, 2004)

is that a big slough or crp?


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

It is mainly CRP. There is a large slough on the south side of that quarter though. I cant remember the exact numbers but it seems to me that when it was farmed in the 70s and early 80s there was something like 125 or 130 acres till on that quarter


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

jdpete,

I agree with you that it should be classified as recreational land or something and taxed a bit more. Locals can't compete with some of these people anymore.

Someone from a big city or out of state can buy up a bunch of farmland thats in crp or enroll it in crp, collect money from the government for it, and that money will never be spent in the small towns where the land is located. Where as if a local landowner has crp, most of the money that he is collecting is spent in the local towns and businesses. This is what is really destroying our small towns.

Just my :2cents: !!


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

But there's nothing illegal about it. For instance there is a chunk of trees (and old yard) that I'm thinking about making an offer on to buy just to use for hunting....there's no farmland mabeye some hay ground on it.....20 acres tops. So Whether I rent it to hunt or buy it ,,its about the same as the pic jdpete sent in......so is it ok if I do it being a resident or am I an *** for doing it.....seriously .....does anyone have a problem with me buying 20 acres of trees to hunt birds and deer out of? And yes of course it will be posted. I will let my friends hunt etc but it will certainly not be open to the public. It allready is and its not that good of spot cause it gets hammered hard every year. It has potential, so I'm going to plant food plots on it and it will become a good spot ....but not till I get out the checkbook.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Far as I'm concerned there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you are proposing, Headhunter! Even though some will say you are "selfish" but by doing your own thing, putting in habitat, foodplots, etc. you are making the world a bit better place than most other hunters do. Sure you will post it, but there is always a tremendous spill over of wildlife on to neighboring countryside. I'm sure someone will call you a "selfish rich instater" for doing it, but this type of opportunity is available to pretty well anyone who wants to make the sacrifices and willing to work for it. Lots of envy and "sour grapes" out there! Good luck with it!


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## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

The state is loosing out big time!Tax the recreational land much more,and give the procedes to the counties and townships for road maintanence etc.


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## IAHunter (Sep 1, 2003)

go for it, headhunter. I own 60 acres of former pasture land here in Iowa that I'm doing the same with. Until I get the CRP and WHIP plans fully going the only people allowed to pheasant hunt are my brother and myself. After about 5 years I will allow others on, but only what I believe is viable to what pheasant, deer (about 15 acres wooded, a 1 acre pond and 1/2 mile of river frontage), turkey, and small game populations. What does everyone else say? No idea, nobody has ever said one thing to me about it.

IaHunter


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## ej4prmc (Dec 3, 2004)

YES WE NEED A NEW TAX CATEGORY Tax MARIJUANA! Someday this country will learn that the war on drugs is rapeing our pocket books.


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

Couple of points, I view 1 acre the the same as 1000 acres, insomuch that once it is taken out of production by an individual or entity that doesnt make 51 percent of income from agricultural related activities, it is no longer agricultural land, period. If someone comes out and buys a 5 acre place to build a house that land should now be taxed at a residential rate according to the respective school district. In this instance 3 quarters or roughly 470 acres were bought by an OOS corporation (gallazin family *LLC*). This land is now inaccessible to the residents of the state of North Dakota, and is no longer producing money within the state, thus it has devalued the state. The land is no longer benefitting the state or its residents. The CRP checks are now being mailed somewhere else, and the lions share of that money is being spent somewhere else. Now bring in a new tax bracket that taxes at the industrial rate of fargo and that land once again has value to the State.

Headhunter I see your point but I also believe that your family makes most if not all thier money in ag related activities, do you not. So it wouldnt affect your taxes at all.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

jdpete is correct that the Conservation and USDA Program payments, plus the rental paymnet plus any future appreciation are now banked out- of-state. Kind of shoots the "new money" theory right in the a$$. And while there should be a recreational tax, that alone will not slow the sellout.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

So what are you guys going to tax? All property taken"out of production???' What is production?? Who's definition? How about the guy who buys 40 acres of pasturland for his weekend ridden horses? Or any amount of land over a 50 X 100 foot lot in a town? How about a guy who buys 120 acres of highly erodable land, (it is already eroding and a big mess and shouldn't have been broke and farmed in the first place) that was used and abused, now full of weeds and rocks and trash, and is worthless as agricultural land. The guy then spends a lot of money and time and "sweat equity" and puts it back in trees, grass, a few food plots, etc. It's now full of songbirds, deer, upland birds, ducks on the pond he built in the eroded gully after he got the erosion under control, the noxious weeds cleaned up, junk picked up, bluebird nests and wood duck boxes full of birds, etc. Better tax the crap out of him too, for being so greedy he posts it, partly for him and his friends, although more importantly to keep littering whining resident slob hunters out! This gets a bit like the NIMBY (not in my back yard) theme, only its the "hehasiteventhoughheworkedhardandpaidforitandillneverhaveitsoletstaxhimanddoeverythingtodiscouragehimandbemiserabletohimifwecan!" syndrome!


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Can't speak for anyone else here but this is the situation I think needs to be corrected:
______________________________________________________________
Jan-2003

Subject: SB 2382, and other troubles, (2382 would have allowed "transfer" of gratis tags). I received this letter just before the '03 session.

Dear Sirs
At the rate that this area in sw ND "pheasant country" is being leased and also bought up we need all the help from folks like you that we can get! It's hunters these outfitters bring in that are the very ones buying up any of the good land that comes up for sale. Heck some isn't even for sale, they just drive up into the yard shoot the land owner a price that dang near knocks his socks off. And just like that the sons and or daughters or in-laws or even neighbors that were thinking of buying and farming and ranching on the place when the folks retired, well their left high and dry. Some buy it before they even leave to go back to their out of state homes. I know a guide that had some guys out and when they came to this nice looking posted property on the river one of them said "why don't we hunt here look at all those birds!" my friend explained to him that it was posted and they didn't have permission to hunt it, but that it was for sale. Guess what, the guy gets on the cell phone calls the realty folks in Dickinson, calls his wife in California and explains to her that there's this little town called Dickinson nearby and yes they even have a Wal Mart. Calls the Realty company back and bought the 2,200 acres, ranch and all right over the phone! Gets off and says, let's go hunting on my place! Very true story!
There is property being bought up at an unbelievable rate around here. Just down the road I believe they call themselves "Hunting Land Investors" just bought up a big chunk of prime deer and bird hunting land along the river. A piece of land that I used to put up a stand on every year and bow hunt. Well now that they have it neither I nor anyone else will be able to hunt it again. As a matter of fact they have turned it into a damn fortress, with chains on all the gates. Laminated no hunting or trespassing signs explaining in detail how they will prosecute you to the full extent of the law on every other post. And they fenced off the old established trail that led to some nice state ground with tree rows. And to top it all off they've installed these solar powered satellite dishes out in the CRP fields that send live images from remote cameras that are placed around the perimeter of their fortress. These cameras also monitor the road and section lines. And if they see anything suspicious from their offices "who knows where" they call our local law enforcement/game warden to go and check it out. It's crazy!
Guess were this group of "hunting land investors was that 2nd morning of deer season "they got there Fri. night...Yep hunting the state land next to their fortress, I was watching them with my spotter. As they were looking at my son and I thru their rifle scopes "I hate that!" as they laid on the ridges overlooking the river, as the sun rose that morning. They were waiting for all the 30 or so hunters that were hunting this small piece of state land to kick the deer into their place, and shoot them as they ran into the fortress.
A friend of mine here in town was thinking of leasing his uncle's small farm, maybe 1,000 acres but an unbelievable piece of bird and deer hunting ground. He was thinking of guiding bird hunters Fri.-sun for a little extra income "I don't blame him". Some how the word got out and this group from the east coast gives him a call and this is what they offered him. They want to book four hunters per day Fri.-sun for every single weekend this upcoming season! And they said they would pay him $22,000, and here's the catch they wanted him to sign an agreement with them so they could be locked into it for 5 yrs and they wanted to pay him up front! He said they told him they weren't always going to be there and that they would rebook hunts, "at a profit to them". My friend had a problem with this whole thing and hasn't done it yet. But if he doesn't do something soon a doctor from out of state is going to lease it out from under him, and is offering his uncle a tremendous amount more than he can. This was after the doctors please failed to convince his uncle to just sell the farm to him "for his hunting lodge". My friend the guide says that he gets calls every week from out-of-stators that he took hunting; they want to know if any land has come up for sale! He's supposed to keep an ear and eye open to spot things like that before they go public I guess!
The group from out east must have gotten wind of this from our new neighbors from across the road, yep a group from Conn. that I think spend the entire bird season here in ND. I saw them driving their big dually truck with the dog kennels in the back up and down the roads every day. Evidently they couldn't buy a large enough piece of land and now have to revert to road hunting.
We have "NEW" neighbors on three sides of our place here in sw ND from Conn., CO, and Minn. These properties have all been purchased for hunting only and are posted and chained up tight, no one resident or nonresident can hunt on them. There will no longer be money spent in town for the spring seeding or the fall harvests of these properties either. It's a terrible thing. 
Two of my friends are both young farmers/ranchers and there is no way they can compete in this land market in these parts and the property taxes are going to really start getting tuff on them in the future. These are young guys in their late 20's, they are about the only guys their age that stayed here and never moved away. They are trying their damndest to make a living in these dry tough times, and as you all know "I hope" it isn't easy right now.They even had to go as far as to buy land 120 miles away down in nw SD, this was the only property they could afford to buy and run cattle on! I guess because it isn't good bird country! Right now they drive down there every day to check on their herd with their car! And with this drought it isn't very good cattle country down there either, it looks like the moon I tell them! And by the looks of it they will never be able to expand their operation here in our area, I guess it was a curse to be born in a scenic game rich valley here in sw ND what a shame.
Like I've said before, only let these nonresidents hunt for 5 days or so the entire year. I think this would slow the onslaught of these wealthy land mongers, in this great North Dakota land grab. If they like it here so much they should move here and really contribute to our small towns with their economic stimulus! And this deal with SB 2230, this is a very bad one, just look at what has happened in KS just recently since they went to this type of system. My brother and I were able to see this first hand just 3-4 years ago.
We drew the first ever-nonresident rifle tags for this unit in southern KS, and we spoke to a land owner that my brother knew down there before we even applied, and were granted permission to hunt his property. So that if we were fortunate enough to draw these coveted tags we would have a place to hunt. Well we drew the tags and headed down there that fall with very high hopes, when we met up with the land owner the day before season he had forgotten all about us and had sold his own" gratis" tags to two bankers from Denver. They had given his whole family plane and rodeo tickets to the national finals rodeo in Las Vegas, he couldn't let us hunt. What a heart breaker, there wasn't much we could do. And our attempts to get permission from other folks along that river valley were fruitless because most had sold their tags to a very large outfitting operation and leased their property to them. Go look on ebay in the fall and look at all of the KS deer tags that are on there up for auction, some go for over $1,000 a piece. Nice program! I could go on and on, thank goodness we live near states to the west that do have alot of public land and good management policies. At least my children will have SOME place to hunt when they grow up! If you think that the local small town economy is bad now just wait till the resident hunters quit coming to these parts because there is no place to hunt. Then they'll really see who was their bread and butter, and it isn't the outfitters believe me!
It's a feeding frenzy and the wealthy hogs are at the trough! 
Good Luck and give 'em hell in Bismarck!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Ha! Thought I would stir the fire with my post! I sure can understand what you are saying and where you are coming from, Dick, and I really do appreciate the good you do with legislation, etc. I'm on your side, but I just wanted to point out that some of the posters on this website should look at the whole picture and the individual situations before passing judgement and coming out with the typical knee jerk negative reaction. I, and a good number of people like me, am tired of being "tarred by the same brush" when it comes to land acquired for habitat building, hunting or camping. Some people may have a summer cabin by some lake - others might decide to put some of their "discretionary income" into some land for hunting, camping, birding, just being able to wander around outdoors on their own land and be away from the city rat race. Come hunting season, though, there are ALWAYS a LOT of jealous people accusing people or groups of people that do this type of thing, of being rich spoilers that cut them out of their "heritage" and their "hunting rights" and garbage like that! That's why every time I hear words like that my blood pressure goes up and I see red and cringe!
Dick, you sound exactly like I did about 25 years ago, (more than a bit bitter) when with very limited time off work and little time to hunt, my kids and I would cruise the roads looking for a place to stop and ask to hunt, sometimes successful, sometimes not. I remember the turning point weekend well! My son, about age 10 and I stopped to make our bladders gladder, and out of nowhere came a farmer's pickup, screamed to a stop, and reamed us out for stopping to "hunt!" After yelling and swearing and threatening to call the game warden, (bear in mind our guns were still cased in the back of the Suburban and our flies were probably still open!) we left and went home, the day ruined. As I had a rare weekend off, the very next day we were travelling down a road in a different area again looking for a place to stop and ask, and a pickup with a guy, his wife and a kid came up and flagged us down. I laughed and said to my son, "hope he isn't going to ask us directions, cause we are sort of lost ourselves!" This was Sunday and it looked like they were going to church, all dressed up, and the guy started yelling and screaming that there was no @#^%$#* hunting around here and go home, back to the city, etc. although he didn't use exactly that language. Weekend ruined! The very next day, I was talking to several friends also with limited hunting time, and we decided to adapt to the changes or quit hunting! If there had been outfitters with land acess back then we probably would have gone that route - no Plots back theneither! So we all banded together, bought up some terribly overgrazed, full of spurge land, the farmed stuff all eroded and absolutely full of rocks and weeds. Worth almost nothing back then as it had been so abused - disgraceful, really! Stuff that NEVER should have been broke in the first place! We've been making payments and spending a lot of time and effort improving it since. Gradually acquiring additional bits of "useless" land since. The place is a model wildlife area, now. And sure its posted!! And we are not all RICH GUYS from town, either! Only one of us has a boat (6 years old) only one has a pickup 2 years old or newer, only one guy has a tent camper, most of us drive 4 - 5 year old cars, etc. Nobody lives in a "big" house - well maybe one guy has a house a bit above average but not much. All except me (I'm retired!) work their butt off with their jobs, pay their federal and state and local taxes with minimal whimpering, look after their own retirement and health care, educate their kids, are active in community service, busy raising their kids properly, about half are still paying off their college loans, all their wives are working, etc. Well, you get the picture!
But, you wouldn't believe the flack we get from our fellow hunters! Whine,, whine, whine! If we had some cheese out there we could have a constant whine and cheese party - 365 days most years, 366 on Leap Years!! Funny, I didn't notice anyone out there year after year helping us build habitat (my name!) moving flea beetles, helping out neighboring ranchers like we do, picking up the loads of trash, (lots of Keystone beer cans continually being dumped in the river for some reason - hope whoever is doing it dies soon from cirrhosis!) planting food plots, putting up Wood duck, bluegird and goose nests, bat houses, and on and on. I suppose they were all busy catching walleyes during the summer while we were out working. More importantly, didn't notice anyone with their check book out to help us with the payments! There is no shortage of "helpers" on the public land bordering our place on two sides come deer opener, though. There's a member of the "red army" every hundred yards along the periphery blasting every little mediocre buck we don't shoot (trying to let them grow up) and whining about "those rich guys with their posted private property!" Lots of em there come pheasant opener too! Guess the walleyes and salmon (and all the other fishing none of get much time to do) must stop biting then! Fish must be able to read the G&F proclamations and stop biting on every opener! 
So Dick, there are always two sides to every coin. When a guy like Headhunter talks about doing his thing, or the guy from ??Iowa?? I think, I sure encourage them to do so. Makes the world a better place. If he wants to spend money and work his butt off to improve the country then for it. Then some WANNABE LANDOWNER with lots of excuses why he couldn't do it, (with his $25,000 boat, $40,000 pickup and/or $20,000 camper - well maybe not, but I'm sure you get the idea!) screams "Tax those rich guys who are destroying out "hunting heritage, right to hunt, hunting traditions," ad nauseum! Now I'm going on this subject I'll have to see my Doc and get a shot of some anti nausea drug! To each his own. 
I personally know of quite a few other groups of honest hard working taxpaying guys from Bismarck and Fargo, probably a lot of other places too, who have banded together their cash and bought land out west and improved it and are continually improving it for pheasant hunting particularly, not even counting the other habitat benefits. The ones I am aware of are all conservation minded hard working people (that's why they have the cash to do it - they work damn hard - and few are doctors and lawyers, either - most of the D & L's in my experience may have the cash but not the time so they tend to use outfitters) You have probably met a lot of them at Pheasants Forever, Delta Waterfowl, DU, RMEF, Mule Deer foundation, Birding Clubs, NDWF meetings!
So while I'm firmly in your corner and have nothing but respect for you and your work Dick, I would urge some other people to think objectivelyand non judgementally about different situations and think past the usual knee jerk reactions to this type of land ownership. At least hear "the rest of the story" before passing judgement. Compromise and understanding are needed on both sides. I have been impressed that this web site tends to bring out the whiners more than Brand X website - that's not all bad, either, as it gives reasonable cross section of people's thinking out there. 
Out of state people buying up land only to show up a few days in the season is sure a problem that needs addressing but I'd like to hear some more constructive criticism and progressive ideas from more people. I don't have any magic bright ideas, either. Might be an idea for a topic, as long as it were made clear that we only want to hear constructive ideas, not a lot of whining, that never has nor never will solve anything. 
And remember Dick, I agree to nicely disagree with anyone as do you. Keep up the good work, Dick! Now, if we could only take some blood from you, clone you, and spread you and your energy around the country we'd get something positive done...........


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

A couple of points to clear up. 
JD Pete - if someone moves out and buys 5 acres for a house it already will be taxed as a residential rate - NOT agricultural! Depending on what he uses it for it could be taxed commercial, too! 
HuntinfishinND - simply buy up land and enrole it into CRP or some other farm program and let the money flow in? If it's that simple, go for it! I assure you it isn't! We looked into it and for a whole big big big bunch of reasons wouldn't do it even if we could have! Don't want to fill up the hard drive on Chris's computer with all the reasons. But if you are smarter than us, go for it! Please let us all in on your secret, though!
Don't knock the LLC - Our group had to do that for "lawyer protection!" If some idiot jumps the fence, or even an invited guest. shoots himself in the foot or breaks his leg in a badger hole then sues us. At the very least it would be a long expensive pain in the butt to fight and win it! And/or carry expensive liability insurance! Oh well, who said hunting was cheap, anyway??? To anyone out there contemplating this type of thing, better look into the nuances of "lawyer protection." Anyone who doesn't is a fool, and remember the old saying - a fool and his money are soon parted!! Remember, if you appear to have a deep pocket someone will want to put his hand in it! Even in ND in January when it's -30 below someone will want to put his hand in YOUR pocket instead of his own! Ha!
And any money from farm payments going elsewhere? Maybe in some cases, but if we got any (and it is a lot tougher than you think and most programs have a lot of strings attatched too!) it would be plowed (pun intended) back into the local community - the fuel sales, seed places, implement dealers, farm supply people in the area love us!! As do the neighbors when we help em round up cattle, work sheep, work calves in the spring when others are walleye fishing and turkey hunting, move flea beetles in the hot summer sun, drive tractors, (all this stuff is fun for us, remember and I'm sure not complaining - we're out there not just to hunt but to relax -you may hurt at the end of a day, but as my grandmother used to say - "it's a good hurt!") stretch fence, and on and on.........Oh, I forgot, "rich city folks" are lousy neighbors!! Everybody knows that!! We'll have to change our ways!
So as I said, don't tar all us "rich city folks" with the same brush! Better to take that brush and stick it somewhere! Or better still, bring it out and help us paint one of our neighbor's houses, like we did last year!! Only we didn't use tar, we used white paint! Nuts, shouldn't have revealed that - someone will surely accuse us of "brown nosing" or "bribing" the rancher for access! you can't win!


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

H, I don't have a problem with residents buying property. The income is likely banked or invested here. I do have a problem with the commercial crowd demanding unlimited licenses and encouraging that land purchase for outside ownership when it is detrimental to the states economy. Like the duck club that bought land, built a lodge and sells the service to clients and no inputs are purchased locally. It is a business and should be taxed. Soft outfitting. There is a tremendous amount of money flowing under the table tax free from aspects of commercial hunting and the rest of the residents pay for it in higher taxes. Subsidises it. What a deal.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I agree, Dick! Commercial is commercial and should be taxed accordingly. Like I said, we need to spread your "voice of reason" around with positive suggestions like this, in contrast to the kneejerk negative reactions to anything but "traditional free ride hunting", that like it or not and I don't like it either, is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. If we can't change our attitudes and adapt to changing conditions, then ------ look at the dinosoars.


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

> Don't knock the LLC - Our group had to do that for "lawyer protection!" If some idiot jumps the fence, or even an invited guest. shoots himself in the foot or breaks his leg in a badger hole then sues us. At the very least it would be a long expensive pain in the butt to fight and win it! And/or carry expensive liability insurance!


Well that is not true. ND law protects us from that, unless of course, you are charging for access. Plus your corporation can still be sued at the value of the land and revenue generated on it, if infact you are charging. You just supposedly cant be sued against any non-corporate assets ie. house,car,stocks,bonds,cash on hand,first born son etc etc. Just letting you know, if you dont believe me just call a lawyer specializing in corporate law. He/She should be able to give you some general answers regarding your liability.

In 1980s I can only think of one area where you actually got yelled at for stopping, and that was in mule deer country. FYI that still happens today and is worse now that everybody thinks they own the grasslands or buy the land adjacent thinking to restrict access in certain areas. As a matter of fact I have a hard time remembering anyplace around the farm that actually had posted signs before deer season in the 80s. That is not the case anymore.

Oh yea, Yes I do think your land should be taxed at diferent rate than mine. OOS interests should be taxed at an even higher rate yet, 11% of assessed total land value plus the mills sounds nice to me. What some dont realize is that when some "city slicker" comes out and starts throwing rediculously high numbers around it artificially inflates the per acre price (Ive heard stories of $1400 an acre near Berlin from a reliable source) of all the land in the area. This makes it unfeasable for a starting farmer to buy land unless he can buy out the father for a reasonable price. Higher land values mean higher taxes, in this instance it almost makes sense to start charging for access to add value to the operation to gain a warchest to supplement an expansion move and relieve tax strains.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Already checked jd., actually several times over the years! You can be sued for anything. You are correct though - you will almost certainly win, but meanwhile you have to go through months, if not years, of paying an attorney $lots$ per hour to argue it in front of the court, which comes out of your own pocket. Sometimes easier and cheaper to be an LLC with minimal assets and say "to hell with it" and walk away from it should that happen. Guess you have never had any experience with the "nuisance lawsuit" where the plaintif hopes for a quick out of court settlement from the innocent defendant who is anxious to just have the problem go away. A "pay me and I'll go away scenario!" Sometimes cheaper and easier just to pay em off and have em go away than to go through years of court and legal expenses, unless you are hard headed like me! I've heard of it, seen it and experienced it first hand -- I rest my case! I also won mine - for $45,000 and 2 years harrassment! Lots of attorneys are my good friends and fishin huntin buddies, but some of the slip-and fall-guys......'nother topic, but I repeat - CYA!
The area was north of Flasher. They suceeded - I haven't been back there since - still think about it whenever I have to drive down that highway south of Mandan 20 miles from the area. Lost a lot of sympathy I had for farmers, until my faith in humanity was restored with the neighbors we now have out at our "place." 
And land is worth exactly what you can get for it, which is what someone is willing to pay for it, including accompanying taxes. If you run across any decent land within 25 miles of Bismarck for under $1500 an acre grab your checkbook quick! It's obviously not worth that for agricultural uses, but do you really think a seller is going to have a fit of patriotism and lower the price to $100 an acre just so someone can farm it? If you believe that, you must believe in the tooth fairy, too! If someone buys it for $1500 an acre, they are taxed,(at least in this township) or should be taxed on its appraised value that they paid for it. (its real complicated - believe me- I tried to figure it out once??) If they are not, then don't complain here- go to your local government and complain and set it right! Or go to the legislature and try to get all land taxed on it's appraised or market value! The local appraiser comes sniffing around here every year and seems to do a reasonable job of making sure that everyone pays their fair share, although granted, they are more interested in buildings and improvements than actual land values itself. Always complaints and grumbling of course, and human nature dictates that we all want the other guy to pay more and me less, but then you can't please everyone. And granted, the system is far from perfect, too. But, as Dick pointed out, COMMERCIAL operations are a horse of a different color and are, or should be at least, taxed at a different rate. I guess if I knew about a large commercial hunting operation in my area not paying their fair share I would ask questions and ask that they be taxed at some commercial rate if they are not. If they can't be, go to the legislature! That's why we have a free country! 
I'm not about to squeal to the IRS about some farmer somewhere taking some money to allow hunting access, but if someone feels strongly enough about it they should do so! The IRS would be glad to look into it! 
Commercialization of wildlife and resources should be stopped or at least severely curtailed! We are all on the same page on that. But the little guy, instate or even out of state for that matter, who buys a chunk of land to do his own thing and improve it, is another story. In my lowly opinion, people lose their credibility when they attack this sort of project. (Go for it HH and others) Sounds like too many selfish motivesto me. Lets all go after commercialization of the outdoors. Together we stand and divided we fall. And we WILL fall, too, if we don't get some good progressive long term solutions for hunting access for everyone, even if it costs us all some money in the end, which it will, like it or not!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Sorry Dick, I just rerread the letter you posted. I had thought you had written it - thus my comment that you sounded a bit bitter. At the time I first read it I wondered about it - it didn't sound like the usual thoughtful constructive criticism guy that I thought I "knew" from the website. Sorry about the "bitter" comment.


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

deleted because huntnwhatever didnt retort back


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

j, did you ever talk to your legislators about this topic? If memory serves the Senator from Mandan tried to get something going on it once.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

jd, if you ever get down to Bismarck I'd love to take you out for lunch (I'm buying) and give you the grand tour. We all have about 25 - 30 grand apiece in it, over a period of 25 years, which is not much when you think of it. Not many people couldn't afford $1000 a year if choices are made. Because its ours, we spend quite a lot of time out there, especially in the summer and do a lot of fun stuff with the neighbors. Come on down, sometime though. You have an open invitiation! It'll give me an excuse to get out of town and tramp the hills with you. Seriously we're proud of what we have accomplished and love to show it off. Enough said on this topic from me, anyway!


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## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

Dammit HH, if your not gonna shoot back I will need to delete that post. Thats 5 minutes that Ill never get back :wink:

Yes I have I talk to 2 of them pretty regularly, not always about this topic, but we have discussed it. The response I got was sortof positive, one of the reasons I get that it doesnt happen now, is they think (probably lip service) that it would get killed by the more urban area legislators since it could end up being a big issue in thier districts.


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