# 2 Winona High students put free speech to the test



## jamartinmg2 (Oct 7, 2004)

What do you guys think of this.....? I can tell you what I would do if I was this girls parents. Does freedom of speech trump common decency in this case?

2 Winona High students put free speech to the test 
James Walsh, Star Tribune 
April 21, 2005 
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Two Winona High School students have found themselves in hot water with school officials.

Why? Because after Carrie Rethlefsen attended a performance of the play "The Vagina Monologues" last month, she and Emily Nixon wore buttons to school that read: "I [heart] My Vagina."

School leaders said that the pin is inappropriate and that the discomfort it causes trumps the girls' right to free speech. The girls disagree. And despite repeated threats of suspension and expulsion, Rethlefsen has continued to wear her button.

The girls have won support from other students and community members.

More than 100 students have ordered T-shirts bearing "I [heart] My Vagina" for girls and "I Support Your Vagina" for boys.

"We can't really find out what is inappropriate about it," Rethlefsen, 18, said of the button she wears to raise awareness about women's issues. "I don't think banning things like that is appropriate."

Carrie RethlefsenRenee JonesStar TribuneTheir case could become another test of whether high school students have the right to express their views in school. Charles Samuelson, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota, has offered to help the girls.

"It's political speech," he said.

Samuelson acknowledged that school officials can limit speech considered detrimental or dangerous. But he said this case is similar to Tinker v. Des Moines, a 1969 U.S. Supreme Court ruling in a case where students were forbidden to wear black armbands to protest the Vietnam War. The court ruled that First Amendment rights are available to teachers and students and that administrators' fear about how others might react is not enough to squelch those rights.

"Free speech is a messy thing," Samuelson said. "People need to understand that opinions that they are not comfortable with, or even opinions they disagree with, need to be allowed."

Good students

To say the girls have never been in trouble at school before is an understatement. They are top students. Rethlefsen was in Minneapolis on Tuesday, presenting her science project on organic farming at General Mills. She has been invited to a prestigious international science and engineering fair for the fourth year in a row.

Nixon, 17, joked that when she was called into the assistant principal's office about the button issue, he told her: "I don't think we've ever met."

But they're in trouble now. And it could get worse.

Rethlefsen said school officials first told her the button was inappropriate in mid-March when a school secretary spotted it. That started a string of visits -- and debates -- with teachers, counselors, an assistant principal and the principal. A teacher barred Rethlefsen from her classroom as long as she wore her button.

"The principal said that by wearing the pin, I was giving people wrong ideas," Rethlefsen said. "That I was giving an open invitation [to guys]."

The girls said they tried to explain that the buttons are meant to spark discussion about violence against women, about women's rights. But Principal Nancy Wondrasch said others find the buttons offensive.

"We support free speech," she said. "But when it does infringe on other people's rights and our school policies, then we need to take a look at that."

Wondrasch said she thought they had worked out a compromise with the girls, allowing them to set up a table in the school to discuss women's issues. But Rethlefsen said school officials are insisting that they review and approve any information the girls want to present.

So they're turning to the T-shirts, paid for with money collected from friends and supporters. "And we're going to wear them sometime next week," Rethlefsen said.

Nixon said more than 100 students are expected to wear the shirts. She added that officials have threatened real consequences if that happens.

"They told us that if a single person showed up wearing them, we're going to get expelled," she said. "People are going to wear them anyway."

Wondrasch wouldn't comment on what sort of discipline the students might face. But the prospect of expulsion worries Rethlefsen's mother, Ann.

"She's a very independent young lady," Ann Rethlefsen said, adding that she understands the school's point. "We just want to make sure she graduates."

Her daughter has gained "a lot of support around town," she said. She's even received encouraging e-mails from noted feminist author Susan Faludi.

Nixon is nervous about what could happen next. But the girls say they are taking a stand.

"We're not trying to offend anyone," Nixon said. "But I want people to think for themselves and come up with their own conclusions."


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

I wonder what would have happened if it were in Ultraconservative ND?
I could care less if kids want to wear some pins or t-shirts that are offensive or not. If you think this is offensive what these kids are doing you had better talk to someone who works with youth or your own teenage kids for that matter  I thinks its more of a problem that todays teenagers think that oral sex isn't even sex! And some people are upset over some buttons? Keep ignoring the problem it will go away just like my cancer, wake up people raise your kids don't let others.

TC


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

This is crazy, they are in school. You are supposed to be getting an education in school not out saving the world with some stupid pin that is a distraction to all the students trying to get an education. Who is filling these kids up with all this "A greater cause BS". Why not wait till she is out of school and trying to get a job, will she wear that pin to her interview "I Dont Think So"!


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## duketter (Nov 24, 2004)

Parents need to step in and halt it right there. Why the H*ll would you need to wear a tshirt saying that to school? In reality, what does it accomplish?

That is exactly what is wrong these days....Parents need to get MORE INVOLVED with their kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Imagine the boys that are wearing these shirts they made....I am pretty sure they just wear them cause they feel it is pretty funny and it says vagina.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

If some of the boys in the class were quick thinking they would make up Pins or T-shirts that said "I [heart] Her Vagina Also" . Bet that would bring it to a screeching halt. College maybe but High School ............ I don't think this belongs there.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

TC, come on man, you can't honestly tell me you wouldn't care if your students were wearing these pins. The pins that these kids are wearing walk hand in hand with the present idea that oral sex isn't really sex. I agree with you 100%, the parents need to be more involved with whats going on in school, and after school. I have one in the 3rd and one in the 5th grade and some of things I hear about are absolutely unbelievable. It is unfortunate that I have to sit down and explain some of these things to my kids at this age.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

This is a great example why so many parents are home schooling, or putting their children in Private Schools. I substitute teach in public schools all winter long and see many students who wear offensive clothing, or should I say "lack" of clothing, and nothing is ever done. Students, parents, and lawyers now run public schools. I feel sorry for public school adminstrators and teachers...their hands are tied.


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## ej4prmc (Dec 3, 2004)

Parents need to learn to be PARENT'S! This is not free speech, this is "lets see who we can shock" I say they love their vagina so much make them attend school naked for a week!


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Good one ej.  :lol:


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Racer, I think you missed my point, I don't care about the symptom I care about the problem.

TC


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

The fact that students wear offensive clothing or the lack of clothing isn't the fault of the school. :******: Yes they need to clamp down on and not allow it but you still see the same thing in the mall away from school. The Problem is parents are chicken Sh#%, and don't hold kids accountable to anything, the schools hands are tied. Its not the fault of the school.

I wonder how these parents would feel if the male teachers had shirts that said "I love my ...."

TC


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

I find it interesting reading the viewpoints on the original post. I did not see anything in particular in the article that said the girl's parents were not involved in their daughters lives. I agree that high school students should be able to "take a stand" or voice their opinion. There is no minimum age to rationally think. I did not see anything that said the girls used one of the infamous 7 dirty words (George Carlin). If the girls wore the buttons to raise awareness, they were wildly successful beyond their wildest dreams. After all, look at the amount of attention they got from every side including this discussion. 
However, the buttons have served their purpose and it is time for the school, parents and the girls to move on and use the response generate the real discussion of womens issues. Too many times, issue awareness is raised through one form of protest with a failure to move beyond the original protest. Secondly, I agree with many who find much behavior in many schools to be uncivil and discourteous and fault parents, in part, for this problem. I also agree that the ability of teachers and school administrators to maintain order and discipline to be minimal these days. But again, students are trying to either stand out from or fit it in with their peers. How many of this post wore long hair in the 60's or 70's for similiar reasons?

As an analogy, what would the responders to the post think if their child wore a T Shirt saying I (heart) my deer hunting with a picture of their first buck gutted out? I suspect there would be more than one parent or other student at some chool who would be offended by the picture. Would the posters use similiar arguments to say it was free speech?


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> If the girls wore the buttons to raise awareness,
> However, the buttons have served their purpose


Maybe I'm missing something but for what possible awareness could the girls have wanted to convey and for what purpose did it serve? I think the one person that said it was simply done for shock was more accurate.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

All schools should have strict uniform dress codes to eliminate unneccessary distractions from studies. It would also save the parents a lot of money if they didn't have to deal with kids wanting the latest fashion.
As for protesting, do it on your own time don't make the teachers jobs any harder than they already are. Her parents are wimpy jackasses as so many are today. 
Thats why I drove an old truck all through my kids schooling so I could afford send them to private school and it really was the best thing I ever did.


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## duketter (Nov 24, 2004)

That is what I am wondering. What point do you get across by wearing a button that says: I love my vagina? ESPECIALLY, wearing it in high school. All they did was get laughs and attention. What could it have proved wearing the buttons?

Also, what parent(s) would let their kids wear that button as a teenager to high school? Is there anyone here that would let them?


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

I agree 100% TC.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

quote from the article in the original post

"The girls said they tried to explain that the buttons are meant to spark discussion about violence against women, about women's rights"

Learn to read, it is fundamental


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Sounds like a BS excuse to me for a prank they thought was cute.

Learn to think for yourself, it's fundamental


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

indsport, yes you would see how free thinking they are if you mention guns or hunting, But no wearing a shirt with a gutted out deer is a stupid distraction just the same. [/quote]


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