# Plainsman 6.5-284



## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Have not heard how that worked for you this year on deer. Trying to decide on another cal and just to many to narrow from thinking something in the 6.5- 7mm flavor. Kind of like the old 30 cal but want to try some thing a little slicker


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Just built a 7STW and got a 6mm06 barrel too. Should be fun to play with those! Any thing in 7mm will treat you right!


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

nothing wrong with just a straight up 260 . The 7mm bullet selection is hard to beat BC wise though.

xdeano


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Kurt, my Swarovski rangefinder let me down in dim light and I didn't get the long shot I wanted. I think 618 yards was my long shot with the 6.5 X 284. I shot one doe bedded at 455, and I was a little skittish about wind and overcompensated. Instead of heart and lungs I blew the throat out of the doe at 618. The one bedded got up and took one step before going down. The one that was hit in the throat bled out in 30 yards.

The 140 gr Berger VLD performed well at the ranges I shot deer at. The 210 gr Berger VLD at 2975 fps out of my 300 Win Mag went through a coyote stem to stern at 1122 yards. Dropped one deer. The fourth I took with a 60 gr softpoint out of a 16 inch DPMS AR15 with Halo sight.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Nice work. Farthest was right at 500 yds no wind the old .308 with the 168 amax performed dropped the doe right where she stood. More exciting was my 6 year watching in the spotting scope would have thought we just shot the new world record he was so excited. Still have 4 more tags i can fill 1 doe west and my 2 does and 1 anywhitetail east so alot of hunting left here.

Savage i was looking hard at that 7stw i think i am leaning the 7 something route just got to make the decision and convince the wife i need another gun.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

At the sport show in Bismarck a couple of years ago I was talking with those guys who have the long range shooting show on TV. Sorry, can't remember the name just now. Anyway, the rifle they had for sale at the show and what they shoot is the 7STW. They also had boxes of Berger VLD (marked up substantially) and I think they were 180 gr. They said their target velocity was 3000 fps. 
I was looking in my reloading manual and it looks like the Remington 7 Ultra mag has about the same velocities. Myself I think I would prefer the Remington since it has no belted case and headspaces of the shoulder.

I have a 28 inch (will come 29) Bartlein barrel coming for my 300 Win Mag. It will be in the Sendero contour with 5R rifling. My old 300 shoots so good yet I thought about buying another action before the barrel gets here. If you could pick up a cheap used Remington 700 you could make yourself one of the 7mm as cheap as a factory rifle and much better. For mine I purchased a custom reamer from Pacific Tool and Die. It is match chamber made for the 210 Berger VLD .004 off the lands.

http://www.bartleinbarrels.com/index.htm


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> just got to make the decision and convince the wife i need another gun.


When you're done with that call the Capitol. They got a few budget issues they need help ironing out, and if you've accomplished the former, the latter should be a piece of cake !


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Ya world peace seems like a simple fix compared to working this deal


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## rasmusse (Oct 24, 2006)

You may also want to take a look at the .280 Remington (7mm '06). It will do most everything the 7mm Mag does but with less blast and recoil. My son is a pro elk hunting guide and he had a client take a nice bull with a .280 at 420 yards (lasered), so there is plenty of power in that cartridge.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

If I neck size between FL sizing the 7STW will headspace on the shoulder after the first firing won't it? Until I have to FL size again when chambering gets a little tight?


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

That is my understanding on belts. The first time it indexes off of belt than after that the shoulder is what is used. I could be completely in the dark just jumping into the belted rounds


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm not sure, but If you neck size I would think it headspaces of the shoulder and belt. I think that because if it headspaces off the belt and you fire the round then the belt and shoulder should both have the proper headspace for your chamber. If you full length size I think the shoulder is set back and it headspaces off the belt.

In mi reloading manual the Remington 7mm Ultramag is near the 7STW. Even though I like my 300 Win mag most people find it easier to reload for a round that headspaces off the shoulder. There are supposed to be advantages to headspace off the shoulder, but darn if I can remember what it is right now. Looking at availability I think I would go for the Ultramag.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Guys, simply put, disregard the belt. A once-fired case is almost a cast of your chamber. Use it to set up your die properly and don't even let the fact there's a belt on the case enter into your mind. Kurt and Plainsman are both at least partially right, but I'm pretty sure the shoulder of the case will move considerably more than the belt, so as stated, forget about the belt. This discussion is exactly why I've never understood the hatred so many seemed to have for the "belted" magnums. The only belted cases I load for are .257 and 300 Wby, 7mm Rem and .338 Win, but I believe my experience should carry over to the others, and I treat them absolutely no different than every other hunting cartridge I load for.

I think you and I may have discussed this at one time or another Savage, but I would also suggest you not get too wrapped up in "neck" size vs FL size. Unless your rifle will shoot groups so small you can't tell if you shot 3 shots at the target or 5...EVERY TIME... I say set up your FL die to barely bump the shoulder and never look back.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Csquared, yup, we did. I was trying to ease the idea into the conversation rather than just say "this is the way it is". I learned about the belt and shoulder after noticing the difference between the headspace on my Encore 7mm barrel and the 7mm barrel I headspaced myself on one of my Savage rifles. I have some pretty high hopes for the 7STW and 180gr VLDs. With the BCs and extra velocity of the STW it really should reach out and touch some things.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Savage, that's why I am now shooting the 210 gr Berger VLD in my 300 Win Mag. The last time I chronographed I was pushing it at 2975 fps. Last winter on cold days I got 2920 fps. Anyway, I have a 28 inch barrel on order and want to break 3000 fps.

Csquare, I agree with you completely. I don't set my dies up any different myself. I simply assume since the belt is there and the chamber fits it that I still headspace there. However, I try to move the shoulder as little as possible because the less you move things the less stretch and the longer life to your brass. If I only move my shoulder a thousandth of an inch I don't know which I am headspacing off or if I headspace off both. I only care that it works, and I get groups of 1/4 inch out of a 300 magnum. That makes me happy as one can get. My only worry is I keep remembering "don't try fix things that are not broke". Replacing my barrel makes me nervous when it's shooting so good, but the reality is there are a lot of rounds down the old girl.

I keep hearing bad things about belts also, but mostly from people pushing the new short magnums. My old belted 300 Win Mag walks all over my new 300 WSM. That may be more of a reflection on the rifles than the chambering, but that's the way it is for what I have.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I do remember hearing an opinion that head spacing off the belt allows for more misalignment of the bullet to the center line of the bore vs head spacing on the shoulder. I would think this would only be a problem with FL sized brass, as once fired NS brass should be an exact fit and be lined up perfectly, am I correct in thinking this? Barring any imperfections in the chamber when it was reamed. I know for my skill level I will never be able to tell if shoulder is better than belt. Maybe that is a good thing???


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I would think this would only be a problem with FL sized brass, as once fired NS brass should be an exact fit and be lined up perfectly, am I correct in thinking this?


If your wrong then I am too.  Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Savage, someone's messin with you who has WAY too much time on their hands! Just remember "headspace" is nothing more than a measurement. A measurement that really means nothing to anyone other than the rifle builder. I rarely use the term. But to the person who told you measuring to the belt somehow makes a chamber inherently less concentric than measuring to the shoulder.....ask him if the straightness of a pencil is affected by how you measure it.

It's simply a distance between two points. Nothing more. Which point SAAMI has decided to use has no affect whatsoever on the chamber itself *OTHER THAN *that distance.

As we've said before, once your rifle is built the actual number no longer matters anyway. Your chamber is what it is, and your die should be adjusted accordingly......whether within SAAMI specs, or not. And if you hold in your hand a once-fired case in near perfect condition, then it can't be off enough to matter anyway...right? :wink:

You're thinkin (worryin) too much!


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Not worrying about it, just fun to discuss stuff like this. I am not a good enough shot to worry about shoulder vs belt. My 7mm RM has been very accurate, and hopefully my 7STW will be just as good, or better. I would never shy away from a belted mag just for that reason.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Agreed! But talk to your source about headspacing from the belt allowing more misalignment with the bore. It sucks digging through piles of 16' material in search of straight boards, and if all it takes is to measure from a different spot on the board it would certainly make life easier for me! :wink:

I sent you a question in a PM....


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

You sent it to me? My inbox shows no new messages??


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I just sent it again, Had to hit "submit" twice for some reason.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Got it, PM returned! I am not sure who the person was that was talking about the belt/shoulder thing. Just some thing I read on one of the forums. That was before I ever started learning about chambers/reaming/headspacing/ect. He/she said that was the reason either the FBI or Secret Service(don't remember for sure) stopped using the 7mmRM. The belt made the cartridge "inherently less accurate" :roll: than other rounds. I wonder if the folks that use the 300 WM for a "work rifle" know that?


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