# Scope or Rifle?



## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

Hi,
I own a Win. Model 88, in .308. I've been doing a little shooting with it lately and notice that it don't shoot as good as I think it should. Tends to throw bullets around the target a lot.

My question is, do you think that this may be a scope issue? It's an old, old, old, Weaver scope and it's not as clear as it once was. Can this attribute to the flyers?

The reason I ask, is that I know this gun, despite being old, hasn't had that many rounds run through it. My dad bought it years ago and asided from a few deer hunts and the rounds that I've shot through it, it hasn't had that many bullets run through it.

Opinions or insight please.
Thanks,
Dan


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

is there dirt or rust in the barrel, maybe try a different brand or load of shells. I had on old weaver that the cross hairs broke loose in, and it sent bullets everywhere, was very easy to tell this on a bore sighter, I just tapped the side of the scope and I could see the crosshairs move


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

ITs very possible that you have a minor nick or two in the crown of the barrel. ASide from a wobbly scope mount, or a worn out rifle, this is the number one cause of poor accuracy in my opinion.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

Hi, 
Thanks for the reply.

My pop always said that it shot 180 grain bullets the best. I have been shooting 150's through it while trying to sight it in.

Wondering if taking the scope off and shooting it with open sights at say 50 yards would tell me anything more conclusive?

Opinions?
Dan


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## DuaneinND (Jan 22, 2005)

When was the last time the barrel was totaly cleaned? I am talking copper remover etc. I would try a different scope, open sights will only tell how good you are with open sights nothing more or less.


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

Do you have another scope to put on this rifle? Or does a friend have one you could borrow? That would be the fastest and cheapest way to figure out why you have fliers.

My money is on the crown, though. Do the white-out trick and see what that tells you.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm not sure what is wrong with your rifle. If I was closer I'd borrow you a scope off of one of my rifles and go shooting with you. If you can get ahold of another scope, it would be the first thing that I would try.

The thing i want to know is what is the white out trick?


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

The white-out trick is to paint the crown of your barrel, then fire a round. A uniform, undamaged crown will have even, uniform burning all around the circumference of the crown. A crown with damage will have unevenness. Crown repair is a relatively easy thing to do, something that if you choose to take it to a 'smith, shouldn't be very expensive at all.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

It would seem to me that your comment that the scope is "not as clear as it once was" answers your problem. As suggested I'd first try another scope before looking elsewhere.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

The thing I think would answer some question as to whether it is the gun or the scope, is that once I had a TC Carbine in .17 Remington. That was a great little gun, but when I put a scope on it, it wouldn't shoot good at all. It was a TC scope and I think I tried another scope as well.
When I took the scope off, with open sites, I could shoot a reasonable group...for open sites, at 40 or 50 yeards. Closer and it shot nearly hole for hole. Put the scope back on and we were back to flyers again. I don't know what the deal was there, with that gun, but I ended up using open sites on it all the time.

I will try that white out trick. I know this gun hasn't been shot a lot. I don't see what could have happened to the crown to cause this. But I'll give it a try.

As for a through cleaning, including copper remover, not for awhile.
I'll try that too.

Thanks for the help.
Dan


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

I vote for checking the scope first. If it is like my Dad's guns. There are hardly ever shot, but get moved and hauled around quite a bit. It's real easy to damage a scope when transporting a rifle. It's even easier for the mounts to vibrate loose or to loosen up over time. If the scope isn't as clear as it once was, that's a dead give away that you should start there. It's also one of the easier things to check.


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## northerndave (Dec 6, 2004)

Dan, I have the same rifle also in .308.

what kind of group are you getting at 100 yds? does it group at all?

You mentioned "fliers" does this mean you can almost put a group together but one gets loose on you?

The 88 is famous for it's super lousy trigger (I can say that because I have an 88 & I love it anyways)

seriously though, super crappy trigger.

I scoped mine up last year with a leupold fixed 4 power scope, looks nice on there & works well for the conditions & ranges I carry that gun for.

I have some real cheap fmj's in around a 150 grain at home that I bought just to see how it shot when i first got the rifle. still have half a box at home because the rifle doesn't seem to like them.

I found that I can get a 1" group at 100 yds with federal fusion 165 grains in mine.

haven't tried anything else as that was good enough for me & they don't cost a whole lot.

clean that barrel real good, at the very least you should run solvent & brush liberally followed by patches to wipe out what ever crap you may loosten between brushings.

If you really want to get it good then get some copper fouling remover, but you'll want a nylon brush for that, and an aluminum or compisite rod

what kind of a weaver?

old K4 or somethin?

marked elpaso ? steel tube?

those are tough old scopes & in MHO they look very cool on the old 88's era correct & such.

maybe don't give up on the scope quite yet, clean the barrel good, buy some decent ammo like at least some white box winchester, or some remington corelokt, some federal standard or fusion.... I'd say try the 150 to 165 range for bullet weight, take your time, good solid confident rest, get steady with the cross hairs & begin that mile long trigger pull!!

If you have no interest in the weaver and if it is an old steel tube elpaso unit, drop me a PM, I might want to buy it. You can send them down to TX to get them rebuilt you know.

As for crown, I respect that opinion but good lord you should see the beat up crown on my old 88 that shoots 1" groups.


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