# Health Care??



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

What are peoples thoughts about all the tweaks they are doing to the health care law now?
- Pushing back deadlines
- pushing back employer rules
- pushing back or lowering fines
- etc??

My biggest question with doing all of this is how will the bill fund itself? Because that was the whole push for this was that the bill will fund itself and we don't have to worry about tax money going into it.

Also is this all just a ploy by the white house to help out the Dem's for the up coming elections? Or is it trying to save face for many of the flaws of this bill that are coming to light?

Thoughts on this.....from both sides please.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

How can something survive if the people that are suppose to pay for it, aren't buying it? Kids being able to stay on till they are 26 and once your 26, you cannot afford it until say age 30 or more.

How can someone change a law to fit their personal needs?

How can you force someone to buy something?

This is all a push to help the Dems save face.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> How can something survive if the people that are suppose to pay for it, aren't buying it? Kids being able to stay on till they are 26 and once your 26, you cannot afford it until say age 30 or more.


I think that these numbers coming out with people not enrolling in these age groups is why they are making lots of the "changes". They are seeing the writing on the wall.

I also think they are hearing from more of the middle class businesses (100 or less employees) on what they will be doing to employee's benefits and hours that is scaring them.

I mean they toted this bill that it won't hurt anyone. You can keep your insurance.... you can keep your doctors.....it won't effect your situation if you like your situation....etc. All of this is showing that none of this is really true. then one of your major backers for the bill (Mayo Clinic) is totally revamping their benefits and what not. Now that is scary isn't it.

I mean just wait until all of these concessions they are making now and changes of dead lines actually come into effect (2016??) But by then you can't over turn the bill because they will use or say....it will hurt too many and we have to keep it afloat. This was one thing i was afraid of.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think liberals still see the plan as a health care utopia. They also know it will cripple American businesses and lead to further government dependence. However, those are also their goals. It's been years since they have been able to be truthful with the voters as to their real intent for this nation. Fundamentally changing the nation was a slip of the tongue for Obama.

I think all the changes Obama is making are not only unconstitutional they are simply for the next election. Obama don't give a rats behind how much his plan hurts anyone, he just doesn't want them to know it's going to hurt them until after the election.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The thing that gets me is they wanted to get away from things being "too big to fail" type issues. yet this bill sets up a possible situation for just that!

Like i stated....if enrollment doesn't get to what they need to keep costs down. The government will be asked to step in and fund the program. Because they can't go back on their word. Also in the history of our nation not many laws or bills have ever been over turned. Only one comes to mind.... prohibition! (I am sure there are others but that is the only one I can think of.)

Now the government is making concessions for this law and extending timelines and what not. So again it is showing signs of implosion but they are delaying it. Yet the writing is on the wall. Banking/housing Crisis. People knew that home prices could not keep going up at the rate they were going and something had to give yet they did nothing! They actually made it easier to get money and homes. BOOOMMMMM!!!! Look what happened.

With this law they are seeing that people are not flocking to enroll. They can't even tell if many of the people enrolled are the previous uninsured or if it is people just shopping around? Which they wanted it both ways...but now they don't know which is which. They are also extending penalties and what not which was supposed to help fund the bill and also get people to sign up. So why sign up if I don't have to for another year?? They also keep lowering the "goals" for this bill. I think they wanted about 10 million to be signed up by march was the original forecast before the website fiasco....but now they want 7 million?

Like i said it is showing negatives. It is going to be scary if the ship doesn't right itself.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't think the ship (Obama care) can right itself. If we don't throw it overboard it's going to sink the nation.

The problem is the average American is naïve. It's been a long time, but I remember college and every liberal hating the military and police. The liberals called the veterans "baby killers" and the called he police "pigs". The American people don't feel that way and respect both. So today the liberals pretend to respect the military and the naïve believe them. The next worst thing than liberals are guys like John McCain and the sell out republicans in Washington that think they have to be liberal light to win office. Fools.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman.... the "Ship" i was referring too is our nation and economy. Don't believe what they are telling you on how we are in full recovery mode and everything is hunky doory. We are still walking a thin line. Contrary to the numbers people are not getting hired...Unemployment is still high (the figure is not considering people who quit looking for jobs)... consumer spending is not rising the only reason why the last quarter numbers are so good is HOLIDAY SEASONS!!!...job creation and growth isn't happening it is going the other way in most cases with cutting of hours and more layoffs....then we raised out debts ceiling AGAIN!!!! How will that help lower the 17 trillion.....yes trillion debt we have????

But this bill is making for another bail out situation and all they are doing is prolonging it.

I agree this bill needs to be drug out to sea tie a two ton weight to its ankles and tossed overboard.

Edit:

I just read an article where they were bragging about the 3.3 million people signed up. But in the same article they are saying that not enough young adults are signing up to help keep costs down and to prevent from cost increases!! Then they also said that they don't know if the enrollee's are people who never had insurance or where people who got cancelled because their plan that they had didn't meet the new requirements brought on by this law. These were near the end of the article where most people never get too by most studies....sneaky liberal media. LOL

But lets dissect what I just added....

You know they are toting that they need the 18-35 demographic to keep costs down. What happens when that age group keeps getting older?? You will keep needed more enrollees in that demographic correct?? But wasn't this bill also supposed to make Private Insurance companies stop spending and "freeze" their increases and lower what they charge? So how will you compete with private companies when you are making them stream line their operations and cut premiums. Does that make your product look better or worse?? Again a situation where they will need to be bailed out!!

Then the second part.... So out of the 3.3 million enrollees how many of those were the millions who got cancelled by their insurance company they liked?? So is your number accurate or not? I am betting that 1/2 or better were people who got cancellation letters. So are you helping to insure the uninsured?? they don't know that stat or they don't want to tell that stat. I am betting that the same people who were uninsured where in the bracket of the people not paying in any income tax!!!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I will be one to just pay the fine, until I start a full time job. Just like everyone other government agency, making money isn't an option, operating the in red I standard.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

BL.... you are in that age group where you can be under your parents? Correct??

But you are a prime example of what I have been encountering when I talk with people. As some know I am an Insurance Agent. I am not actively selling Health Insurance but I do have my license to sell it. I talk with my other clients and they ask me about Health insurance and what they are running into. Many said they got cancellation letters. Some said they will just pay the fine. many are up in the air on what is going on with work place benefits and the direction that their employer is going to take. I mean it is scary on what will happen. Also many of these people thought that this law wouldn't effect them when we discussed it years earlier. Also a disclaimer is i am in business so I don't interject my political beliefs into these discussions because you can't if you want to be good. You have to sit on the fence and work both sides because you don't want to lose a sale because of politics.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Chuck Smith said:


> BL.... you are in that age group where you can be under your parents? Correct??
> 
> But you are a prime example of what I have been encountering when I talk with people. As some know I am an Insurance Agent. I am not actively selling Health Insurance but I do have my license to sell it. I talk with my other clients and they ask me about Health insurance and what they are running into. Many said they got cancellation letters. Some said they will just pay the fine. many are up in the air on what is going on with work place benefits and the direction that their employer is going to take. I mean it is scary on what will happen. Also many of these people thought that this law wouldn't effect them when we discussed it years earlier. Also a disclaimer is i am in business so I don't interject my political beliefs into these discussions because you can't if you want to be good. You have to sit on the fence and work both sides because you don't want to lose a sale because of politics.


No I am not, I am over the age limit. My employer and I have talked about it when I go full time what we will do, which is probably both pay for a private insurance, which we have already selected. If I were to pay my half for insurance right now, I would no money for rent, food, gas, or living. Thank you Obama care.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

BL... My mistake... I thought you were around 24.

Anyways that is one thing that is a problem. There are people work two part-time jobs to make ends meet. So they don't fit into employer based plans. So they have to get their own. Then they don't qualify for subsides because they are in that "void" where they make too much money as an individual. Yet it still isn't enough to pay for rent/mortgage, car payments, food, utilities, child expenses, insurances (auto and home), everyday living expenses, etc. Many of these people are single parents. So they just figure they will pay the penalty.

I hope some people will read this thread and just think a little. Put your political stances on the side and look at how will this bill survive??


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Its alright, I'm old and in college.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

This is from a paper in my area. How many other State Exchanges are in the same boat??



> MNsure site improving,
> but budget remains shaky
> Minnesota lawmakers warned leaders of the state's health
> exchange Wednesday that they need to figure out how to
> ...


this comes from the Rochester MN post bulletin.
http://www.postbulletin.com/eedition/pa ... ml#page_a6


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Either they had unrealistic expectations, or they people doing the number crunching were way off


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