# Looking for assistance



## Stilllearning... (Oct 15, 2011)

Hello,

I am new to the board and a first time poster. While I am over 40 and have tinkered with waterfowl hunting for a number of years, I consider myself an amateur, especially relative to the folks who post here. I have learned A LOT just reading through the various threads. I reside in Western Wisconsin and have made an annual trip to the Devils Lake/Rugby area for 3 years (hunting with my cousin, his father and my dad). We hunt for the camaraderie and the love of the outdoors as much as anything. However, last year we FINALLY had a little success goose hunting and now we want more!

We are now field hunting after purchasing layout blinds last fall (we hunted primarily water our first two trips with very little luck...including poor marksmanship!). Last year we scouted better than ever and hunted primarily bean fields. That said, we had a heck of a time getting them to come in, with many often flaring. We had our most success on a very foggy morning, telling us that we were being seen despite absolutely loading up local vegetation in an attempt to conceal ourselves). So any help with a few questions would be greatly appreciated!

*Suggestions for hiding in low-cut fields?
*How important is calling? We have flags and calls, but are not confident enough in our calling to use them in a real life situation...just don't know how to "teach ourselves" how to call, so we've taken the conservative approach of letting the decoys do the work.
*We use a combination of field decoys/flags, totaling about 30-40 in number. Do folks believe "the more the better" or can we be successful with this number? Depend on conditions? Thoughts?
*Any tips on hunter etiquette that you might offer? I read the thread about disrupting roosting ponds in the morning and honestly hadn't given much consideration to the notion that other hunters could be waiting for them to leave (making me feel pretty selfish!). Other do's and don'ts would be welcome as we do attempt to be "good guests" whether hunting in ND or WI.

We have our annual trip coming up in a few weeks and look forward to enjoying our best year yet! Thanks for any time or expertise you are willing to share.

Mike


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

I'll start with a few questions that may help answer yours as to why They're flaring. First off are they truely flaring? A bird that flares has committed to the spread and at the last minute felt something wasn't right and flared off. If they're doing that and your not calling lets assume that they're seeing something. You've stubbled your blinds real well and still the same result. Is someone wearing glasses in the group and peaking out to watch the birds? One flash off a lens and they're gone. This can also happen if a person's face is exposed. I've had a lot of new guys flare birds by trying to watch them. Keep every one down and under the flaps of their blinds except one spotter who is also the shot caller. This guy can also tell the caller what's going on, or the flagger when to drop it and get ready. He's the only one moving around and he should have a face mask on. Are your blinds in or too close to the landing zone? Geese look real hard at where their feet are going to touch down, they circle to find that spot and hone in on what's there. Make sure it's not you! I set off to the side and upwind of the landing zone and I prefer the birds entering left to right, therfore the wind is coming from my right side. I won't get into the style of decoys or condition as I'll assume they're new and clean, hopefully you've mudded your blinds and no one has blew a party horn as the birds where landing. There's really not much more that can flare a bird. Unless, they're not flaring! Now geese may see your spread fly in to take a look and because it's not really where they want to be and you've not sweetened the pot by talking to them with your flag and calls, they simply fly off. If this is what's happening you've got to find the "X" By this it's where the geese want to be, If you see them feeding one morning in a certain field set up there the next, but find either tracks in the mud or goose **** on the ground. A couple hundred yards one way or the other can make a big differance. As far as the number of decoys, it's early season and there's alot of smaller family focks buzzing around if thats the case where you hunt, go with maybe three groups of 5-7 decoys. As the air gets colder and migratory birds move in increase the numbers. You also asked about hunter etiquette, I'm glad your concerned. Just remember wherever you hunt there may be guys who have hunted that particular field for years, don't move in and set up on top of them or get to the spot 2am. simply to beat the regulars out. Find a spot to yourself and the others will respect that. Now if it's an hour before shooting time, you go by and no-ones there, hunt it, I'd say they're not showing. Now I'm not saying we own "THE" spot it's open to everyone, but it's how I operate and work with others groups in my area. I don't step on their toes, they don't step on mine. Last tip on hunter etiquette, don't drive in a farmers field!!!!! I can't say it enough, piss off a farmer and it will can cause everyone to loose their rights to hunt an area. Oh, and never decide to dig a pit blind on someone else's property, that too is a big no-no.
Sorry for the book and good luck in your new found sport,
Cut'em


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## Stilllearning... (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks Cut'em! I can't thank you enough for sharing that "book" as it helps me tremendously! A few follow-ups in case you read this response or others are willing to help me learn more about this sport:

*We had everyone with a flag and call, so we'll assign roles and keep everyone down. And yes, one of our members likes to wear sunglasses, so they're going to have to suck it up. I now understand the difference between flaring and not being on the "X" and can say I've experienced both. I had now idea they were that picky about the "X". We'd scout a field and then just try to go get in that general vicinity thinking our decs would bring them in.

1st follow-up question: How far away can they see you? 
Here's the issue we had in our first year of layout blind hunting; no one could see behind us and it's hard to follow the horizon when your fully enclosed looking through mesh. So we would want to lean up, and get our head out so we could see. When we spotted a flock, we'd quickly hunker down. Is this practice okay? What's the best way to "spot" out of these?

1B. How important is movement within the blind? I had a duck hunter tell me yesterday that staying still is far more important than being covered appropriately? Perhaps this is a whole other thread, but I have no idea how good their eye site really is.

*We're good with muddy blinds and our set-up (similar to what you describe). We do need to cluster our decs differently, so thank you.

Question #2: When do we stop flagging? How close can they be? We've stopped flagging once we're convinced they see the spread.

*Thanks for the etiquette tips. As a FYI, we do get permission from the farmers land we hunt (even though it's not posted).

Question #3: Does driving on a farmer's fields include use of an ATV? We bring ours to do the grunt work of setting up shop (remember, we used to water hunt, so we'd make many trips with our decs). To the locals, is a ATV and Truck the same?

Again, thank you so much for helping us!

Mike


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## kkelly (Apr 19, 2008)

Hi StilLearning, welcome aboard!

Here are some responses from my point of view.

1) "How far away can they see you?" I would say that they can see you from a couple hundred yards out. *BUT* do they know that it is a person moving around? Probably not. They might see you there and not know what you are, or just see your movement. I have been in situations where I'm picking up the birds we shot from the last group, up to 50 yards away, and there will be a new flock of birds coming in from 6-700 yards out. The only thing you can do is run back and jump into your blind. Even with all of that commotion the birds still came in. However I have also been in situations where we there was one spotter and we were pretty good about keeping low and the birds would see us. I have found that you can get away with peeking your head out a little bit until the birds are around 100 or so yards. Then I go ahead and really crouch into my blind.

1B) I would say that if your moving head around and kicking your blind and making a raucous, your gonna get caught. I try to stay as still as possible and let the birds work. If they fly behind you, try to find them but not at the expense of blowing your cover.

2) As far as flagging goes it all depends on the birds. I've had days where you literally flag until you fire and others where you stop flagging when they are 5-600 yards out. Reading the birds is the key. If they are flying off then try flagging longer, or not flagging at all. Find what works, but don't be afraid to mix it up and see if something else works.

3) As far as driving is concerned, I would always try to drive on a field, but I would ask the farmer first. They generally are ok with you driving on their land IF the circumstances allow you to. Be smart about it, again first ask! But if you don't get a chance to ask look around. Is the field wet, am I going to create ruts? Have they just planted any winter wheat? Just be smart about it.

I would also suggest a few other things to make your outing worth while.
Learn how to call confidently. You don't have to be a pro, but it works to your advantage to be able to at least know how to use the call correctly. Learn how to 'cluck', 'multi-pitch cluck' (to sound like 2 different geese, a high and a low, but they don't have to be fast), and 'growl' (laydown call is really what works for me(growl, growl, cluck. growl, cluck, cluck. growl, growl, growl, cluck, cluck, growl)). If your looking for a cheap/good DVD look for Molt Gear's "Bad Grammar".

Secondly, make sure that if you are using a Mojo, turn it off when the geese are coming in. They generally aren't attracted to Mojo's, but for the most part, ducks get sucked in to them.

Thirdly and probably most importantly-SCOUT!! Put in the miles and hours prior to your hunting and it will be well worth it. I would generally go through a tank of gas to find the best field I could the night before, but come morning, the action was well worth the time!

Feel free to ask more questions!
Have fun out there!

Kkelly


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## The Shovla (Aug 23, 2009)

I agree with everything stated above 100%. The bad grammer dvd/cd is fabulous. Best on the market for teaching a short reed. Also, as above, just ask the farmer about driving in. Some care, many don't if it's not wet. But if birds are going there, the walk is well worth it! Just a couple other ettiquet things we do: pick up all shells/wrappers ect (i'm sure you do already), and we always bring out extra cheese, cheese curds,sausage, WI brewed beer ect....to make a gift basket of sorts for farmers that let us hunt for the majority of the week. We've done this a few times, just to show our gratitude, and split 6 ways, it's a cheap thank you, and they'll remember it's from Wisconsin guys :rollin: Have a great trip. I am leaving WI for ND myself on Friday. Can't wait :beer:


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## nemitz (Oct 18, 2005)

Good on you guys who responded. This was so informative, positive and correct that i cut and pasted the post to a word document for my hunting partners to read. ( my hunting partners are two fifteen year olds and a thirteen year old ). Thats what this site should be like all the time. Ethics and Skills.


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## The Shovla (Aug 23, 2009)

it's amazing the things you can learn and teach on this site when guys don't immediately jump down a guys throat for internet scouting or being a stupid non-res hunter  I think the poster presented a good 1st post with questions, and as stated above, guys saw this and put really good ideas down to help him out. I'd love to see much more of this on the site :beer:


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## greatwhitehunter3 (Sep 15, 2006)

Everything that has been said so far has been very good information to go by!

Everything that I have learned about calling has come from "Bad Grammar". Definitely a must for a beginner if you ask me. Once you learn the basics (honks, clucks, moans) you are good to go. I hunt with a couple people that are amazing callers but often, it can be too much. The more time you spend in the field the more you'll recognize how much and when to call.

Decoys: As long as you are where the birds want to be, the X, you won't need a ton of decoys. It's one of those things that I like to add a dozen here and there, until you are satisfied (which for most waterfowlers, will never happen!) The key to decoys is trying to set them up like you saw the geese. A lot of waterfowl hunting starts with the scouting.

Flagging: I start flagging as soon as I see geese in the distance whether they are headed to me or not. I will continue flagging until they are about 100 yards out. From that point, I let the birds dictate how much more I flag. If they're coming in, stop flagging. If they start to skirt off to one side or the other, give them a little bit of flagging and try to center them. I like to have the guys closest to the middle flag from 100 yards on for this purpose. If you're going to get the geese to commit, might as well have them centered up so everyone has a chance to shoot.

I find movement in the blind is just as important as movement that is visible outside the blind. Everyone gets excited when they have a flock of honkers beginning to commit but try to contain yourself and try not to move. It's not normal for geese to see a two foot area (your feet) rolling up and down like waves. Try not to move! Like someone has stated, try to designate someone to watch the birds instead of everyone trying.

To me, one of the biggest things is the relationship you can have with the farmers you get permission from or the fellow hunters you meet. Be respectful and leave the field as you found it. Coming from a farming family, you don't want to mess up the fields just to shoot a bird. If they say no, thank them for your time and move on. No need in throwing a fit because of it!

Spend lots of time on scouting and have a great trip!


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## Stilllearning... (Oct 15, 2011)

Wow, you guys have really been great, so thanks again. I wish I could buy you a cold, Wisconsin-brewed beverage!

I haven't learned everything yet and the more responses I read, the more questions I have, so I am going to keep asking in hopes that folks will weigh in. When the music quits, I'll stop dancing! So again, thanks for your time!

*I hate it when my cousin is right! He's been telling me for two years that we need to scout more. I viewed it as a waste of an evening and a lot of miles/gas. I have got the message loud and clear!

Question 1: Does anyone have a map they would recommend? We have a ND Gazetter (love it) and some detailed internet maps. Nothing that tells whom might own the property, if it's posted, etc. If this is simply about doing the grunt work, so be it. Just thought I would ask if anyone has a favorite.

*Calling. Thanks for the heads-up on Bad Grammar. I ordered it online tonight!

Question #2: Does anyone have a suggested (short reed, right?) call for a beginner? Are some easier to use than others?

*Mojo's and ducks. We have used a mallard mojo in the water.

Question #3: Assuming we purchase a goose mojo, would you use a mallard as well/same time? Do folks mix duck and goose decoys in the filed? If so, do you keep them separated in small groups (5-7) or mix them in with the geese?

*Flagging. I've got a MUCH better idea now. Thanks for keying me in on truly watching the behavior of the birds..makes a lot of sense.

Question #4: This may sound really stupid, but I'm already "out there" in terms of exposing my own lack of knowledge! My flag has an all-black side and a goose-colored side. Should I always use the goose-colored side? I am pretty sure some flags are black only.?.

*Set-up. So I am trying to picture my crew-of-four set-up using Cut'ems advice of appointing responsibilities. I like GWH3's idea of the flag guy being in the middle.

Question #5: So where do I put the spotter/talker, furthest away from the spread or on the inside?

*Decoys. Okay, this will be embarrassing as well! Last year we purchased 12 of something that I do not know the name of! They fold up flat (REALLY easy to transport/store and light) and when you stick them in the ground, the wind "puffs" them out, providing a bobbing-affect/movement. The goose head is down as if it's feeding. We muddied these up a bit to take off the glare last year. They look great to me, but I'm not a goose.

Question #6: Are these any good or should we just stick to adding to our hard-cased collection?

Blinds. So my cousin has been talking about trying to bury our blinds a foot or two to cut down on the profile. I have been extremely concerned about this because I don't even know how we would ask the farmer who's allowing us to hunt if we could dig four, 32 square foot, 2 foot-deep holes in his field!!! We would obviously fill them up and rake them over, but is he going to be so pi$$ed at us for asking that he tells us to leave or is this something that is common-place in ND?

Question #7: We won't be doing it without permission, but do people ever ask farmers permission for this (and is it even a good idea/worth the effort)?

*Etiquette. Thanks for the advice on this. We definitely try to leave it like it was and we do try to "take care" of the farmer via sausage/cheese curds and a case. If I remember correctly, our farmer likes Blatz, which coming from Wisconsin almost sounded disappointing! I think I'll take Shovla's recommendation and bring them some Rush River from River Falls. If they don't care for it, we'll go back to Blatz!

I hope I am not sounding too "pesky" as a new member to your board. But I have to tell you, you guys have already made my trip in a couple of weeks MUCH, MUCH better.

Thanks,
Mike


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## pdk9 (Jul 27, 2010)

This thread is great! I live in New Hampshire but go to North Dakota each year for waterfowl and pheasant. I am learning more from this thread than any other I have seen. Thanks to those that are giving the information.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

One last tip... being the old guy in the crew you call the shots.........Make sure you have your doors open before you make the call or the kids will be all done shooting before you even get your gun mounted.......... :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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## The Shovla (Aug 23, 2009)

a couple answers for you....or maybe opinions really :

*for a short reed, you can't go wrong with a Buck Gardner Honker Hammer....Super easy. $50 for acrylic or $20 for a poly. and yes, some are much harder than others. IF you have time, go to cabelas...there is one on your way from WI on the far side of the Twin Cities, and blow a few to see what you like...otherwise, so you can practice before the trip, buy one at a local Gander Mt. I know they have the Honker Hammer for sure.
*I wouldn't dig your blinds in. Even asking may turn a farmer off to letting you hunt, and really, it's not needed. Take the extra time to really add more stubble to the blind and tweek decoys.
*I wouldn't worry about a goose mojo. I've never even heard of guys using them. They hate mojo ducks, so why would they like the goose version? A mojo duck w/ remote is a must. saves batteries and easy to turn off from inside the blind when geese are coming. it will suck ducks in-between goose action.
*experiment with ducks and geese in the field. I usually keep a small duck group off to the side if goose hunting, or vice versa if duck hunting
*Scout scout scout...drive drive drive...I know it sucks driving out from WI and then driving more to find birds, but it is totally nessessary to find birds. Expect to put on a few hundred extra miles in the week just scouting.
*and most important....get that farmer off of the Blatz Beer kick....YUCK!!!! how about some New Glarus, Point, or Leinies instead!

good luck :beer: I myself leave Friday and can't wait!!

Justin
Janesville, WI


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