# Another nail in the American coffin



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Not being pro defense is one thing, but he is now coming across as pro weaken the United States. We better keep up with the world if we want to be safe.

For the full story: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090625/pl_ ... _defense_1



> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives was poised to approve on Thursday a $550.4 billion defense authorization bill for fiscal 2010 that has drawn a veto threat from President Barack Obama because it contains money for fighter jets he does not want.
> 
> The bill also authorizes $130 billion to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in the fiscal year that begins October 1.
> 
> The White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) said it supported the overall bill but the president's senior advisers would recommend a veto unless some provisions were dropped.


----------



## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

He talks tough but how can you back it up. That's like sending Dirty Harry out there with an empty holster. Does he think anyone believes the :bs: he spews :******: What an idiot.


----------



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

For crying out loud! An F-15 has NEVER been lost in combat. Not by us, or the Israelis. They're still pretty formidable. The fighter program he's against is the F-22. Even Gates (a Bush appointee, mind you) agrees. The problem is that the F-35 is only a few years away. We can make due with the F-15 in the interim. Even if we wind up in a significant contest over air-superiority by the time the F-35 is ready, there's nobody who's going to build anything better than the F-15 in that span.

It's more like not letting Dirty Harry upgrade from his .44 to a .454 Casull, while his .500 S&W is on backorder.

When looking for things to leverage against Obama, this is a pretty big stretch.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> there's nobody who's going to build anything better than the F-15 in that span.


Is that classified, or can you share you international intelligence with us?  That's my attempt at humorous sarcasm, not mean sarcasm. It was to funny to me not to say, but I knew how it might come across so I thought I better explain myself.

On a more serious note:
Your right Omegax it's not a big deal. I called it another nail in the coffin because it's like cigarettes. One will not kill you, but one an hour for years may. The thing is this is just another act in a string of acts that points towards his anti military attitude, and his attitude towards how America fits into the world. One could possibly be a coincidence, but a dozen builds a pattern.


----------



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Fair enough... Death by a thousand cuts...

You guys don't like Obama. That's cool. I've got things I'm concerned about myself, but my biggest thing is that the sky isn't _always_ falling. I see this as a pretty responsible move, actually.

We haven't had a significant challenge to our air superiority since, what, Vietnam? Maybe somebody is working on something really advanced, you're right. I can't be sure, but what are the odds that we get into that sort of war with one of the couple of countries who are even capable of challenging the F-15 AND they're about to roll out a new fighter, by the time the F-35 is ready? Keep in mind that we do have a couple of squadrons of F-22s that were already paid for. I'd say we're good.

Even if we fight Iran, their best fighters are the handful of F-14s we sold the Shah. Even 30 years later, the F-14 isn't something to be trifled with, but they've been cannibalizing them for parts since we cut them off. They didn't have many of them in the first place.

Sorry if I'm rambling... I've been a bit of a "plane geek" since I was a kid.


----------



## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

My spin only........
Keep the airplane industry working or we will be bailing them and related business out just like the auto industry.


----------



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

That's not far-fetched at all! We've done it with Boeing a time or two. We do it because we like being able to make our own warplanes.

Personally, I don't think that we make enough of our own stuff, period. In WWII, GM and Ford were cranking out guns (I LOVE my Inland M-1 Carbine!), tanks, jeeps, planes, deuce-and-a-halfs, you name it. I don't like the idea of losing more manufacturing.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I get your point Omegax. It's just that life has taught me to be careful. Not paranoid, but careful.



> I can't be sure, but what are the odds that we get into that sort of war with one of the couple of countries who are even capable of challenging the F-15 AND they're about to roll out a new fighter, by the time the F-35 is ready?


What are the odds? I don't know, but I don't gamble. I'm the sort of guy that takes five rifles on a deer hunt because four might break. Hmmmm you know five could break.  Got to get another rifle.


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Plainsman said:


> I get your point Omegax. It's just that life has taught me to be careful. Not paranoid, but careful.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


J/K You must do alot of bad things to people to have to worry about all that bad stuff happening to you. You know good begets good. :lol:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> You know good begets good.


That was true years ago when the majority of people were good. Today it's more like "no good dead goes unpunished".


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Plainsman said:


> > You know good begets good.
> 
> 
> That was true years ago when the majority of people were good. Today it's more like "no good dead goes unpunished".


It's still true and worthy in my Christian world! Don't be such a snag and man up to what you believe no matter what the rest of the world is doing. :beer:

Plainsman the overwhelming majority of folks are still good, one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole barrel if you remove the bad apple.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> It's still true and worthy in my Christian world! Don't be such a snag and man up to what you believe no matter what the rest of the world is doing.


You have a point, but some days it ticks you off. Example: if you didn't help with sandbagging during the flood no one said much. If you did help someone would complain because you didn't help them. I was up to my axles in mud with my personal pickup hauling pallets of sandbags, and still people who did nothing but wait for someone to come and help them complained because you didn't help them. Sorry, I'm complaining, but I help the old and the helpless first. 

I default to your opinion doing good is still worthy.


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Plainsman said:


> > It's still true and worthy in my Christian world! Don't be such a snag and man up to what you believe no matter what the rest of the world is doing.
> 
> 
> You have a point, but some days it ticks you off. Example: if you didn't help with sandbagging during the flood no one said much. If you did help someone would complain because you didn't help them. I was up to my axles in mud with my personal pickup hauling pallets of sandbags, and still people who did nothing but wait for someone to come and help them complained because you didn't help them. Sorry, I'm complaining, but I help the old and the helpless first.
> ...


Are you in love with yourself or what... :lol: some of us have been helping our neighbors all of our lives. :beer:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Are you in love with yourself or what


Nope, I'm often ticked with myself. 



> some of us have been helping our neighbors all of our lives


So do I. Did I say something that made you think otherwise? I don't think I can follow your logic. We sure are not on the same wave length here. I agree with you about 95% on this, but I'm not going to give you the other 5%.

The real subject is do we need to fund these aircraft or not, and is Obama poor on defense?


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> So do I. Did I say something that made you think otherwise?


Kinda sounds like you are bragging and hurt because nobody hugged you for all your hard work. Many cops and soldiers have given their lives to help people they don't even know. How about lets just all be thankful if we have something extra in our lives we can share. :beer:

And the airplane thingy.. we have so damn many airplanes in moth balls we could fight them with.. we even have unmanned aircraft these days that can drop bombs as well as any human but without any remorse. 

Actually we should take a lesson from 9-11, lets just go hijack the enemy's airplanes then rig up remote control and send them back with bombs and such. :beer:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Kinda sounds like you are bragging and hurt because nobody hugged you


Actually I was kind of linking it to a prevalent attitude today, and that is entitlements. Today many think they are entitled to so much. If you look at the government programs they call many entitlements. The fact is no one is entitled to something they don't earn. Politicians use the term for their smoke and mirrors. When people think they are entitled they fail to be appreciative. 
I don't need a hug, but I don't need a load of crap either from those who watch others work. It's not about me, it's about people have forgotten to be appreciative of their neighbors. Your way off base buckeye and I can't figure out why you went off subject to go there. If your going to complain about people who are mostly in agreement with you go take a nap and try the day out again. 

Maybe rather than make a comparison of hunting to try be humorous I should have just kept it simple and said be prepared. My intent was to sort of make fun of myself, but I guess that backfired. I guess when I was in Boy Scouts I took the motto be prepared serious. It's stuck with me for a long time. It's a rough world and I don't see this as a good time to make cuts in the military.


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Your way off base buckeye and I can't figure out why you went off subject to go there. If your going to complain about people who are mostly in agreement with you go take a nap and try the day out again.


I followed what you were writing is how I got off subject... as a matter of fact I had no input until you went off topic. Twisted little minds in twisted little circles... you are just so negative all the time. Hey that's your choice and is no hair off my *** so keep on keepin on. Now what will you twist this into? I suppose you will think I don't like you... well who cares if I do or don't like you? I expect something juvenile anyway.... :lol:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Well, what can I say. I'm going camping you have a good week-end also buckeye.

Oh, and I still give you credit one should try to do what's right, and help people. I don't know where I went wrong getting the point across that I agree with you, but I will acknowledge I failed. So lets leave it at my failure.


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Thanks Plainsman you have a good weekend also. I have a family party to go to (someone very special turning two), a nephew is the drummer in Gypsyfoot and are playing in Minot this weekend and its Wilow City Western Weekend too so it's going to be a great one!! Don't fall off your horse Plainsman and hold your head high.. your a good egg man! :beer:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Willow City?? I drove through there often when I went to college in Bottineau. One of the guys in school with me, his parents owned the bar there. Hope you and your special two year old both have a great week-end.


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Plainsman I'm not writing this to debate or discuss anything really but instead just to try to help you. It seems to me that for you everything and everyone is either right or wrong, you go so far as deciphering a percentage of right or wrong. Well the whole idea is not about right or wrong but is about sharing thoughts and opinions. When I read some of your stuff it's like you are 95% sure your opinion is your opinion. So the point is try to stop looking at peoples opinions as right or wrong, when you tell people they have wrong opinions they probably refrain from even sharing their opinion and that truly is our loss. :beer:


----------



## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

My 2 cents.

Opposing opinions are what keeps a debate going, if anyone has an opposing opinion from me I'd like to hear it, along with the reasoning. That is how we are given a chance to move more moderate or more left or right.

Take Ryan for example, if he didn't post on here it could turn out to be very boring on this thread.

:beer:


----------



## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Classic Buckseye!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Please share more of how we should act and react....... :homer:



buckseye said:


> It's still true and worthy in my Christian world! Don't be such a snag and man up to what you believe no matter what the rest of the world is doing. :beer:





buckseye said:


> I thought this was a pretty decent spread!!


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Good afternoon buckseye, I had errands to do after getting back from camping and just seen your post.


> So the point is try to stop looking at peoples opinions as right or wrong, when you tell people they have wrong opinions they probably refrain from even sharing their opinion and that truly is our loss.


Things I am unsure of I do more listening than typing. As for the cap and trade the house just passed --- you bet I have an opinion and if someone things it's good I am going to tell them they are wrong. The whole thing to me is to talk about what our politicians are doing and if it is right or wrong. Mess with our second amendment and I will try to convince any fence rider that it's wrong. 
Opposing opinions are welcome. Sometimes things get hot. Some people can state an opposing opinion and people will calmly debate them. Others state an opinion with a little sarcasm thrown in and get chewed on hard. Some people have the knack, some don't. 
People can use this form different ways. Some can use it to reconfirm their own opinions, some can bring good news, some bring bad news, some oppose conservative views, some oppose liberal views. It's all up to the individual who posts.
Although you do have a very good point about good news. If you have any please post.  
I have to laugh when people say we need to give Obama a chance. I had to listen to Bush lied people died for about six years. Now less than half a year into Obama people think conservatives complain to much. If we didn't oppose neither would our representatives and Obama would get everything. Gun bans, cap and trade, socialized medicine, more illegal aliens, and a socialist America. 
Buckeye I seen your post in the shortage of blood thread. You said "let the gang bangers die". I thought :beer: this guy is harder nosed than I am.


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Holy smokes are you out there!!!! What the heck does all that have to do with not telling people their opinions are wrong?? :beer:

And be careful your horse don't fart... could cost you big!!! :beer:

Possibly several million Obama dollars... :lol:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think I need a scratching my head icon. :huh:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

OK, I am old and slow, but I eventually catch on. Sometimes I take things to serious. Like buckseye.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

omegax said:


> For crying out loud! An F-15 has NEVER been lost in combat. Not by us, or the Israelis. They're still pretty formidable. The fighter program he's against is the F-22. Even Gates (a Bush appointee, mind you) agrees. The problem is that the F-35 is only a few years away. We can make due with the F-15 in the interim. Even if we wind up in a significant contest over air-superiority by the time the F-35 is ready, there's nobody who's going to build anything better than the F-15 in that span.
> 
> It's more like not letting Dirty Harry upgrade from his .44 to a .454 Casull, while his .500 S&W is on backorder.
> 
> When looking for things to leverage against Obama, this is a pretty big stretch.


My inlaws are big plane people, I know about as much as that short dude from fantasy island. 8)

I swear I heard on fox that another reason not to go the F35 was to prevent tipping our hand on it, or keeping under lock and key until someone comes up with something close to what we already have?


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I know about as much as that short dude from fantasy island.


I'm with you on knowing about planes. Probably the only reason I know anything is I like to fly the radio control. I'm getting to old and slow though and my last one ate asphalt in front of my house. 

I hope you guys are right about where we are in our defense system. I just like to be armed to the teeth. It's like carrying a gun in law enforcement. If police don't have it they will perhaps need it, but because police carry and the dirt balls see it it's unlikely that they will need it. I think those British cops would last about ten minutes in a rough neighborhood in the United States.


----------

