# Pheasant Hunters Increase



## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

from the Fargo Forum: North Dakota's number of visiting pheasant hunters set a record last year, rising almost 10 percent, while the number of out-of-state duck hunters declined, the state Game and Fish Department said.

The agency keeps track of the number of pheasant licenses sold, and surveys small game hunters. Newly released data on Wednesday said 25,072 out-of-state sportsmen hunted pheasants in North Dakota during 2003, compared to 22,840 the previous year.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Apparently they liked or were not detered by the new upland regulations and season structure. Lays bare the arguement of Hospitality about the reason for decreaseing hunter numbers in SW ND. Not that it will make any difference next session.


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Hunters bring in alot of money, SD just released their numbers last weekend, hunters brought in an estimated 94 million dollars to the state the majority of it from non-residents.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

We love coming to hunt in ND :beer: but the first week stuff :roll: I won't bother :lol: . Dick, I believe the numbers of hunters are also influenced by the drought in Kansas and Nebraska which has decimated the pheasant hunting in those areas. The hunters naturally go where the game is. And then again the fact that not many come for more than one week anyway so what effect does the 10 day license have, not much. My point is I think weather is the biggest factor, just like it would be if you had a severe winter then the hunters would shift elsewhere.


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

And to think of all the complaining last season. New regs this, increased fees that, apparently a lot of people dealt with it. The mott/regent/hettinger area is really going to be hurting this year!!! I'm sure they'll find something to whine about.

Provide free land access and you'll have a never ending supply of hunters.


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

james s melson said:


> Hunters bring in alot of money, SD just released their numbers last weekend, hunters brought in an estimated 94 million dollars to the state the majority of it from non-residents.


A MAJORITY?????? Yeah, sure. Not buying into that.

So I guess residents reload their own shells, make their own clothes, and refine their own gas. SD only allows 4000 waterfowlers, so NR pheasant hunters provided more than $47 million dollars. NOPE. How can you even throw that out there. Unless every dollar spent has a zip code on it, your assumptions are wrong.


----------



## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Dick,

Did you get those PDFs with the ND numbers from '01-02? You should have Chris post them on the site here so people can see where the *majority *of hunting dollars in ND come from.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Not true Bob...I believe over 50% of the non-res. come from Minn.They would come many more days than 10...since that is only 2 weekends.

So the 10 day license had a very big effect on hunting pressure.

But your'e right about the weather...I would say we lost most of our pheasant population up here in the northern part of the state this past winter...I haven't seen any since Feb.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Ken you know how I feel about weekend NRs but everybody thinks its because I don't live next door. I personally know several bunches of guys that used to go to Kansas and are now going to ND. Too easy to find out what going on in each state bird population. Sorry to here about the pheasants in your area ( I'd keep spreading that message if I was you :lol: ). Do you really think someone traveling over to ND to hunt is worried about $50.00 maybe a few but not many if they were how come the hunter numbers Dick quoted went up?


----------



## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Haven't seen the article yet, but the record needs to be clear on one point.

There was an approximate 4K decrease in NR *waterfowl licenses sold *'02-'03, but most likely the same or a slight increase in number of *NR waterfowlers*. The '03 legislative license structure change made it such that NR uplanders no longer buy the waterfowl upgrade "just in case". "Upgrade" went from $10 to ~ $85. Even Randy Frost felt we only had about 25,500 actual waterfowlers among the 30,000 waterfowl licenses sold in '02. '03 NR waterfowl licenses sold were ~ 26,200.

In '03, then, we had same or very similar numbers of NR waterfowlers compared to '02, with much poorer water conditions. This correlates directly to even greater '03 waterfowl pressure/competition and pre-mature out-migration. October weather exacerbated this problem, but high hunter numbers with greatly decreased habitat played a the major role - ask the SD hunters where the ducks were shortly after the ND general opener.

_*We did not have any or any significant decrease in NR waterfowlers in '03.*_


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincitie ... 371133.htm

from Sunday Apr. 04


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

South Dakota's economy also benefited from the increased pheasant activity. Leif estimated pheasant hunters spent about $91 million during the 2003 season, compared with roughly $78 million during the previous season. (this is straight from the link you provided)

Where is the Majority???????


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

85,400 is the majority of 164,00


----------



## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Because nonresidents were the majority of the hunters does not necessarily bring you to the conclusion that they spent more money.

Non-residents were 52% of the hunters.

No where in the article does it say nonresidents spent more than residents.


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Especially when residents hunt all year long.


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Wow, residents can hunt pheasants all year long in ND? Residents in ND probably hunt as much as ones in any other state, weekends and a few days here and there, the hardcore hunters may take off more time. I'm sure most resident hunters do the "homer" quick and easy hunts around where they live just like anyone else, cheap, sleep at home, eat at home, drive a short distance to get in more short hunts. NR's on the other hand have to do much more driving, spend to eat, sleep, gas and other small expenses that occur on the road, it's unlikely that residents spend more money during the season than the comparable NR.


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

james s melson said:


> I'm sure most resident hunters do the "homer" quick and easy hunts around where they live just like anyone else, cheap, sleep at home, eat at home, drive a short distance to get in more short hunts. NR's on the other hand have to do much more driving, spend to eat, sleep, gas and other small expenses that occur on the road, it's unlikely that residents spend more money during the season than the comparable NR.


Here ya go assuming things again. ND hunters will go where the game is. If that means getting a hotel room, eating at a cafe, buying more gas, so be it. Not sure where all the delusions of granduer are coming from??

And if ya do all that driving and spend all that money, maybe you need to find a different hobby.


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

The delusions, my friend, come from a small group of ND's that think they are putting tons of money back, they are putting some back but not at the rate out of staters do. Why would you drive across the state when you could hunt next to home even if it wasn't as productive. I don't spend money unnecessarily, seems as if you like to.


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

My family hails from Watford City, I'll drive clear across the state just to hunt. Yep, thats right, 400 miles. In fact, I've hunted this whole state from the NE, NW, SE, and the SW. Every part has its strengths and weaknesses.

Why would you hunt in an area that isn't productive. If that was the case, why don't *you *hunt close to home??????????????? Hmmmmmmmm... Practice what ya preach!


----------



## goosehtr4life (Dec 16, 2002)

James, a little geography lesson...Fargo is where a majority of residents live in the state of N.D....where I hunt it is a 225 mile trip that I usually travel 4-8 times a year...depending on weather ect... I buy shells, gas, food, beer, from the town I stay in...why because I put my money where my mouth is and support small towns...I challenge everyone including yourself to do the same..


----------



## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

James where are you from?? I'm guessing not from a state as sprarsly populated as ours. Most of us grew up in small towns (ND was and still is a agriculture dominated economy)...still have family in them. AND SUPRISE...we still go back to them now and then even if it's not hunting season. It may be hard for you to understand, but we do spend most of our money in ND. It's a pretty irrational thing for you to say a Non-res spends more $$ in ND than a resident does...come on. Even if i'm not hunting I still have needs, i don't walk to work, or eat of my lawn....You really need to wake up.

I thought this was suppose to be about SD pheasant hunting. I can't even fathom how many birds they must see down there to kill that many...WOW!!!


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Brad Anderson said:


> james s melson said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure most resident hunters do the "homer" quick and easy hunts around where they live just like anyone else, cheap, sleep at home, eat at home, drive a short distance to get in more short hunts. NR's on the other hand have to do much more driving, spend to eat, sleep, gas and other small expenses that occur on the road, it's unlikely that residents spend more money during the season than the comparable NR.
> ...


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

The point is... during the SEASON, I'm not talking about everyday life. You ND's should try going out of state once to see how much things really cost, it would change your tune in one trip.

Back to your original post topic, I have hunted SD several times over the years, it is fantastic. I don't really hunt pheasants as much as I used to because of the loss of my dog but it seems as if ND can rival it in some parts of the state.


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey sorry James and Brad I was screwing around learning to do quotes for the heck of it and accidently posted that quote. It means nothing. I can't delete it or I would, again sorry it means nothing


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Buckseye you ever feel like a monkey playing a piano with these Damn Computers, I sure do. :lol:


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Bob.. :huh: :toofunny:


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Brad, I wish I could be impressed by 400mi. it's not very much, about 25% of ONE trip to ND last year. Thanks for the geography lesson.


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

You keep complaining about how far you drive. Does driving a long distance entitle you to anything?? Anything at all, NO. Like I said before, if it is too far for you to drive, hunt in your OWN state or find a new hobby.

Why would I go hunt in another state when I live in ND?? Why?? Like I stated on the other thread today, I only have hunted outside ND once. It was in MT hunting elk. The license cost $476. We hunted in SW part of the state. I never once complained about regs, distance, cost of a license, etc etc. I was just glad to have the opportunity. Apparently that isn't good enough for SOME people. YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YA WANT!


----------



## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

james,



> You ND's should try going out of state once to see how much things really cost, it would change your tune in one trip.


If it is that much of a burden on you why don't you stay home? Could it be that you have money to burn? Unfortunately most of us ND's do not!


----------



## jacks (Dec 2, 2003)

"Could it be that you have money to burn? Unfortunately most of us ND's do not!" Not a real bright or true statement. Are you speaking for everyone or yourself?


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

I know, "lets have a spelling contest!"


----------



## Rangers (Dec 13, 2003)

If you go back to the threads from Scheels, I think that shows what their reported income is from NR hunters at all their locations. I do know that a ton of money gets spent by NR's in SD all across the pheasant range. Corporate jets flying groups in from all over US, going to Cabela's dropping huge bucks to outfit everyone. Renting vehicles, hotels, food, etc.. With the pheasants reported to be as wide spread as they were this year in ND, I doubt very many 400 mile trips were made this year, unless you had money to burn.


----------



## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Rangers, no money to burn, for sure, but friends to see and landowner contacts to maintain. Hunted pheasants 11 days, 3 SE and 8 way SW. Lots of miles and lots of hotel, food, gas, snacks, (maybe a cold one or two), etc... Stay in hotels for waterfowl and grouse many nights too.

I hunt over twice as many days in ND as a R than I did as an NR living in the Twin Towns. That means more than twice as many of the hospitality expenditures too.

If total hunters remain the same or even increase, but because the exclusivity game forces R's out or causes them to quit, overall hunting expenditures take a huge hit. All the studies show that NR's have a slightly higher per day spend rate, but because of proximity to the hunting and the greater number of days R's hunt, annual R hunting related expenditures are significantly higher.


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Brad, I could have guessed that you have only hunted outside of ND only once or not at all. You are the one who bragged about the 400mi. distances you travel, which is nothing in comparison. What it does prove is that the people who do travel those miles are truely dedicated to the sport and are willing to put up with it. One of these days you will get away from home and find that ND doesn't have all there is to offer, there are many things to do across the midwest, you just have to get past the "ND or nothing mentality". I am not willing to stay home and hunt when I have the freedom to go wherever I like in this country, and I do. It is a good bet that if things keep going the direction they seem to be going I will be hunting long after you have given up.


----------



## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

jms,

here you go with that "hay seed" theme again. Living in ND isn't a death sentence for many of us. Lot's of trade offs, for sure, but not many are here because we have to be as you seem to suggest. Some of left, had a great gig somewhere else, and shucked it all for qualty of life issues more important to us.

Different strokes, but I'm here 'cause ND offers the kind of hunting I like to do about 95% of the time. Until recently, it was unbelievable in consistant quality too. Why would I travel to hunt when the kind of hunting I enjoy the most is right here.

I think one of the biggest disconnects between R and NR is the degree of importance each group places upon being close to very high quality hunting. For a lot of us, it's worth just that much more than the things you find most important. I think that's why many of you have such a hard time understanding why so many R hunters are so ticked (and afraid) and are fighting like hell, which you often confuse for greed.


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

JMS, are you for real or what??


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

JMS, To add to Dans post. There is a picture in the photos page, I believe it is Gandergrinders or GB3's photo (sorry if I am wrong). It has a quote at the bottom that says something to the effect of, "I can't get enough of this state". That goes for a lot of us. We are in heaven on earth. Why would we need to leave for hunting experiences when we are talking about world class hunting and world class beaty in our home state!!! I myself have only hunted one other area besides ND, haven't found another reason to yet!!


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

It never occured to me to use the term "hay seeds"


----------



## Guest (Apr 9, 2004)

I've hunted SoDak, MN, and WI,never NoDak, or will I until I'm a resident, just so I don't piss off you guys. Oops, three nights I stayed in NoDak, but hunted in SODak. Anyways, I thnk it is truely heaven on earth out there. No other state compares to the northern most midwest. It's a waterfowling mecca. I go there jsut to be a part of it all, plus you get to see a high number of birds, something MN or WI could never compare to! 8)


----------



## Mr. B (Mar 16, 2004)

I fully respect everyone's right to stay and hunt and fish in their own state. Since most of us are not made of money it makes sense to live where we can enjoy our freetime to the fullest. But taking that trip to another part of the country (or world) to experience other adventures should be a highlight for everyone. (just my opinion)

I have been fishing across the country, when my wife and I travel we try to include a day or two of fishing. (most of our trips revolve around the outdoors) Right now my favorite trip is two weeks in Alaska. For all of you how love the outdoors a trip to Alaska is a must. It will change how you view the outdoors. Another of my goals is to catch a Tarpon in Florida. (Sorry for going off on a tangent)

There was a post asking why would one want to go someplace else when you have everything in ND? The Midwest does not have everything it does have great natural resources but not everything. There are things that can only be experienced by traveling.

98% of my hunting and fishing is done at home in the area that I grew up in, but that 2% that I spend traveling makes memories that last a lifetime. Just my opinion I am not trying to ruffle any feathers.


----------



## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Mr. B, agreed. But I think it boils down to degrees and priorites for a lot of us. I've hunted and/or fished in about 8 states/provinces. I'd rather live some place where financially it makes it harder to do the 2% (or at least as often) and have a closer connection to a very high quality of the 98%.

In addition to $, there's only so much time. It would be an absolute hoot to hook a tarpon, and if it were an "and" instead of an "or", I'd do that and a lot of outdoor adventures that would be a lot of fun but not as much fun as those I enjoy the most. I wouldn't trade 2 great days of cupped-wing mallards for 7 days of outstanding tarpon fishing, regardless of the cost factor. Only so much time, and I like to spend most of it on the things I really, really like to do.

Different strokes..........but, I think that's where a lot of us are coming from.


----------



## Mr. B (Mar 16, 2004)

Dan I do agree with you I just wanted to make a point that there are things outside of the Midwest that are worth doing. I only get to go on those 2% trips about every third year.

If someone's favorite thing is to duck hunt or pheasant hunt then living in North Dakota is a great place to live. Since my two favorites are walleye fishing and deer hunting I think I live in a great place for those two, Minnesota.

I just think that traveling to experience other things is good. It opens eyes and minds to what is out there. I also think that it helps keep conversations like this one civil, because those that have traveled can see the value of resources out side of their state. (not sure if I said the properly)

And who knows poeple might even develop new favorite things to do.


----------



## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

My wife is forever encouraging me to broaden my horizons, and largely in order to apease her, I do.

But, seems I keep going back to steak, beer, button-down collars, local vacations, NPR, CNN, action and mystery flicks........and hunting things with feathers, especially those that are better enjoyed over a lab.

ND was (maybe SD is) the place for my most-favorite outdoor activities. Closed-minded, or just really knowing what floats your boat?


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Do what you enjoy, otherwise find something else! Simple as that.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

NPR and CNN your wifes right you need to broaden your horizons :lol:


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Bob,  I was wondering how that Toyota is running but couldn't find you!!!

:beer:


----------



## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Whoa! Bueide is a NPR listener! Excellent! Now that is a broad horizon. But, I guess we could all switch to Limbaugh and Fox News, eh Bobm? uke:

RC


----------



## rifleman (Jan 22, 2004)

You know, when I read all these posts on residents, NRs, money spent by whom and where I can't help but see images of my grandsons. And the reason is this. I didn't have the quality hunting my Dad did and the reason was loss of wildlife habitat. My kids did not have the quality hunting I had and the reasons were loss of habitat and loss of access to hunting land. And their kids, my grandkids, will not have the quality hunting their parents had and it will be because of access. If we don't resolve these issues right, remembering the wildlife resource comes first, and preserve *quality, not quantity *hunting, then only a select few *shooters* will remain. And then who will care?


----------



## duane (Mar 29, 2004)

Just an opinion...not looking for an argument, but I have never thought that because I live/reside/pay taxes in my state that I was any more "entitled" to any of my states resources than a person (NR)willing to drive here and pay the higher cost of a hunting or fishing license??

From the previous post, the cost of a hunting license rarely if ever goes down...usually goes up. Will it get to the point that it will alienate those that are on a limited income, especially the father wanting to take his 14 year old son on a quality ND Pheasant hunt...but suddenly cannot afford it? I hasten to think of the future of hunting when less and less kids are introduced to the sport...all because it montarily just got out of hand?

ND is a great state with great opportunites. It did not just happen...it has always been this way. Duane


----------



## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Sad indeed. I got the same problem in MT. Can't afford the license. One day I will though. It will be a great day when it comes.

Hunting is becoming a rich mans sport. Sad but true. Look at the cost of ammo. It wasn't too long ago a box of shells was going for under $5.


----------



## duane (Mar 29, 2004)

Brad, I have hunted Montana also and have paid the high prices..Need to think twice now before I commit for next trip. Love to Bowhunt Elk there!

Hope things do not get to the point of greed before seed. (seed=youth)


----------



## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

Rifleman,
How old are you? I am curious because of the "loss of habitat" comment and how the quality of hunting is declining for all the generations of your family. I hunt alot with my dad, (who has been hunting for well over 50 years) and there is more game now and habitat for that game than a long time. It may all not be available to hunt (to much is leased up, posted and you either do not ask or get permission, etc) but I don't think there has been a huge habitat loss recently, at least not yet.
The quality of life is what keeps most of us here, it sure isn't the numerous high paying jobs. Life is what you make it and I prefer to have a life here than live somewhere else.
OK, you can cut me off after one more.  :beer:


----------



## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

Steve, you are right, these are the good old days when it comes to game populations. But many of those are a confluence of a series of events not nescesarily to continue. The unprecedented water conditions of the 90's provided a fluch of phenominal breeding habitat that will wither most likely into the near future. Habitat degradation has continued, but was offset to a certain extent by weather conditions and CRP.

NEVER, EVER forget that CRP is habitat that is being artificially created to offset what was removed as ag developed. If CRP was cancelled tommorow, our pheasant numbers would go pppfffftttt right into the blue yonder.

Just because things are good right now does not mean that things a good right now. Darkest before the dawn thing and all.....


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Robert, it shouldn't surprise you that I listen to NPR I like to hear both perspectives. I like FOX and Rush as well. You really need to expand your horizons 8) CNN and NPR would be like just listening to Fox and Rush , kind of repetitive don't you think? I think your hats to tight :lol:


----------

