# Is this Obama care or what?????



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Anyone else notice it's taking forever to get things done for medical conditions? I went to my heart doctor last winter. It took two months to see him. He said I need a sleep test. That took six weeks. That was done in August and I will not get to see the sleep doctor until December 28. It will be nearly a year from start to maybe finish. You would think they would be a little faster when a guy stops breathing 35 times during six hours and wakes up 16 times an hour.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Bruce, aren't you an old fart on Medicare like me? LOL. Your wait seems way too long. Are you getting the referrals to physicians at home in J or being referred out? Doubt it has anything to do with Obamacare itself. 
Everywhere with more boomers being added and more demands to "fix it" from people for things that in the past we just lived with (and yes, a lot of us are spoiled and over serviced, too!) there is a drastic increasing demand for a somewhat limited service, the country being somewhat short of physicians and services. IMO there's not so much a shortage of services but a maldistribution of services, especially to cold rural areas like ND. Yet costs keep going up and up with no end in sight.
Costs?? We spend many times more per capita for medical services and a far greater percent of our GNP than any other civilized countries who have arguably as good or better medical services than here. I have no answers for this, but it has nothing to do with the way we pay for those services. That is, the services cost the same amount no matter how the politicians try to shift the manner of paying for it all each side trying to blame the other sides so called solutions. Zero point in trying to point fingers at politicians without looking at our costs compared to the rest of the world. But I doubt it'll ever change in your or my lifetimes. They all argue about how to pay for stuff without ever examining WHY stuff costs so much. In USA, that attitude will NEVER change, IMHO! 
Sure glad I'm out of the medical rat race. :-?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HH...

Spot on 100%.

Like an article I posted yesterday
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/persona ... id=DELLDHP

Also I am amazed it was written for VOX... which is typically very slanted to the left. But a great article about prices and what not.

I also think plainsman was pointing out the fact that one thing the ACA said wait times would go down. This is way back when it was debated.. .if I remember correctly. Which again the bill did nothing to really help with that process. It was just politicians talking out their back side.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I agree. Had a kidney stone first of September. Was told to go home and see if it will pass and in the meantime they scheduled lithotripsy appointment. Didn't pass. A month later I had lithotipsy done and now have to wait another month till I have followup to see how well it worked. Having kidney stone pain while trying to harvest for a month just about killed me. I have come to the realization politicians only have the one side;-)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't have the answer, but if sleep apnea is as serious as they tell me I thought they would be faster. Oh well I guess I'll just contemplate the senior coffee in front of me at McDonald's on expressway.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I don't know much about sleep apnea, but I have heard colleagues say it is probably the most averblown diagnosis looking for patients. I'm showing my age here, but when I was in med school and post grad specialization training sleep apnea didn't exist ( with the exception of the rare in those days Pickwickian syndrome) but now it seems rare to find someone who doesn't have a CPAP machine. Is this a disease that has always been with us and previously under diagnosed or is it a newly developed disease because of our increasing inactivity and overweight, far too much caffeine, etc? I don't know, its way out of my field, but it is an interesting medical discussion in doctors lounges, etc. I do know that some companies and sleep centers are reputed to be making millions from this "disease."
Deaths from this? Again, out of my field, but IMHO (not a specialist by any means) it seems to way overblown, etc.
We have coffee shops on every street corner nowadays, and in every service station the coolers are full of highly caffeinated beverages, and obesity is increasing like crazy and we are all becoming more inactive, and even computer screens and ztV's are being looked at as interfering neurologically in many ways and possibly or some say probably sleep patters. As far as dying from sleep apnea, I hear it can happen, but it must be unusual. Though way out of my field, i must admit Ive never seen a case, but it sure might happen. I just don't know.

North 1. - I don't know much about stones, but recently had a close huntin buddy with one. He had to wait in pain for several days before after an ER admission or two they took it out, though they wanted to give it a week to pass on its own. I don't know what the consensus of urological opinion is, how long to wait, etc. Though it would depend on size, where it is, pain, etc. They are definitely miserable painful dang things though.

Any politician that says that their medical scheme will lower premiums is full of fecal material. First Obama, now Trump! Ain't gonna happen, probably never. IMHO


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HH...

Agree with you 100%.... there are many things now getting "treated" that were never around before. Like you said was it under diagnosed or is it just a "money maker". I mean is "snoring" that big of a problem??? I don't know. But look at ADHD, ADD, etc.... those were always just pushed off as "the kid is hyper" or "he cant concentrate". Look at "eczema".... wasn't that just a rash? Again these are way above my pay grade and are issues. But look at all the specialty equipment, pills, etc that many illnesses have out there. Then again.... look at what/who pays for these treatments.... INSURANCE.... so again to look why premiums keep going up. Look what each policy HAS to provide coverage for. Again.... nothing has been done to actually lower insurance premiums.... that is what the issue is. The cost to "cure" or what ever keeps going up and up. Premiums just reflect costs.... if costs go down... premiums go down.

But you brought up a great point and needs to be discussed when talking about Health Care, Health Insurance, etc.

I mean are these companies making mountains out of mole hills because they can make money? Just like many elected officials I think like to draw out stuff so they have to "have special sessions" to get paid over time. That the "special" sessions make them look like they are actually working when IMHO most of them are not. :bop: AGAIN ALL POLITICAL OFFICIALS.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Took me 2 months to get knee replacement surgery.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Oh yeah. Forgot to mention. My lithotripsy procedure cost was $13,000. Yeah. Was put out but no invasive surgery, just shock waves. Wish I would have asked what it would cost if I paid in cash. This crap is getting insane and completely out of hand. Bet I could have got it done in Mexico for under $1,000.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Chuck, that's an interesting discussion on MRI costs, though that is pediatric and requires a general anesthetic and all that.
STILL, my last MRI on my upper back cost a grand total of just under $7.000! And I don't recall if that covered the Radiologist reading it or not!
For years I never had any interest in what medical things cost. Why? Because I had insurance with no co pays or anything like that. And as I,m now covered by Medicare, I wouldn't have had any idea of the cost were it not for Internet talk forums and hearing people complain about costs. I can honestly say that if I had no insurance I'd have called around and checked prices from the 4 or 5 MRI units here in Bis, just like I'd price shop for anything else!
Calling around about an MRI for a hypothetical back problem in a hypothetical patient without insurance and comparing price quotes would make a great investigatory story for an aspiring journalist! I'm tempted to do it myself. 
I wonder if there are any other guys out there who have had MRIs for back problems and what it cost them or their insurance company?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I can't remember if it's Medicaid or who pays for expenses for someone donating an organ. My wife gave a kidney 17 years ago to our son who died in March. At the time my son lived in Phoenix (at the time) and his doctor was one of the leading transplant doctors in the United States. We were still working and living in North Dakota so the doctor sent specific directions on how he wanted the MRI done so he knew where everything was positioned before the surgery. We went to Bismarck and they had a fit because we were not doing the surgery here. They said they don't do MRI's the way this doctor wanted and it was wrong. I told them just follow the directions. When we got to Phoenix for the transplant two weeks later they had done it the way they wanted which was wrong for this doctor and my wife had to have another MRI. This was 17 years ago and Bismarck tried to charge me $6000 for their arrogance. I told them to take a hike and then I called Medicaid and told them they purposely disregarded the directions and no one should pay them. I have no idea what happened, but I never heard from them again.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Bruce, it sure sounds like somebody's "head should roll" for that! I always wonder who sets the prices for various exams and procedures. There always seems a really wide variation to them. But, like I said, most of us with insurance have no idea what things cost. Me included, though I'm taking an interest in costs and necessities nowadays. 
The way things are set up, there is absolutely no incentive to keep costs down for our insurance companies, not that they would,thank us even if we all did. We are all pretty spoiled with the abundance (arguably overabundance in some things) of both necessary and unnecessary medical services. Heck, even stuff that has been proven to probably not work is still widely done, and the insurance companies just continue to pay! And pay, and pay and pay. But we subscribers (bill players) are the ones who pay, and pay and pay.....
We need more objective research about what works or,what is effective, and what doesn't, and have teeth behind stopping payment for unecessary stuff bing done, unnecessary meds being prescribed and pushed by pharma, etc. But like I said, not in my lifetime.....at least not in USA!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I agree with everything you have said HH. One thing you said hit my twisted funny bone.


> We are all pretty spoiled with the abundance (arguably overabundance in some things) of both necessary and unnecessary medical services.


 I was thinking ya you can probably get a sex change faster than a bypass. :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HH....

You should do a call around for your back MRI. I have told stories before about MRI's on knees and what not. But the difference could be from a few hundred dollars to $10,000. Like I mentioned call and ask what it would cost for an MRI. I would beat you a steak dinner first thing they ask is "what insurance company are you with"! Because MRI's can be done at a chiropractor for less than at a hospital. I mean all it is really is a picture.... now someone reading and understanding that picture is a totally different thing.

Like I have said for a long time. If people want health insurance to decrease or stabilize. We need to wrap in the costs of the procedures, medicine, therapy, etc. Those are the costs that keep skyrocketing.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Think about this. The larger hospitals are probably doing at least 1 MRI per hour. If a basic MRI cost 5 k that's $40k a day, $200k a week, $800 k a month. I cant imagine an MRI machine costing a million dollar but if it does even deducting technician and doctor salaries it seems that MRI would easily be paid off in 2, 3 months max. Now I wont begrudge hospitals a REASONABLE profit but....................................


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Yep, I should do that! Could be enlightening, with prices all over the board, I doubt equipment differences vary so widely. However, sometimes a new piece of equipment does a better job, costs more, so prices can justifiably be higher than the guys across the street.

Nope Bruce, a sex change takes years to complete, assuming you qualify! I assure you that you probably don't,LOL unless you are holding back something from us all, maybe in like Shakespeare's Macbeth. " he doth protest too much!" Kiddin you Plainsman!
A bypass by and large is pretty quick, especially if you present in the ER with chest pair, ekg and enzyme changes, then it's off for Cardiac angiogram, stents or bypass, etc. 
Emergencies get treated pretty efficiently, (except for the boondoggle waits in most ER's) and doesn't matter much if you have insurance or what insurance company. An entire army of billing "specialists"will figure out your bill later, and then the hassles begin! It's the elective stuff you wait for. And a lot of elective stuff, including most of the drugs you see advertised, are of questionable value, but things and thinking changes with new knowledge and experiences. You can test new surgeries and new drugs on every animal on earth, but you still don't know what the long term good and /or bad events on HUMNS might be till the housands have been exposed to it. Might help a bunch of people but kill a few other specific types of people. Not perfect. You won't know this till you try it on a LOT of humans. What is standard of cae today may be passé and ancient tomorrow. But then that new standard of care may be junked next year and the old way of doing returns, Ive se n this many times over the years.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Well, Dakota shooter, some of,those newer MRI machines can easily cost into the MILLIONS of dollars. And PET scanners, multimillion starting price. 
If you can do as many as you calculate, fine. But what makes the whole hing inefficient is,that nowadays there seems to be an MRI on every block! If they sit idle, the are not generating any returns. So what happens ? .....no comment. 
Progress? Yes and no . When CT,s came out, I remember ONE being available in a,University center serving a huge area and it ran almost continuously, now there are maybe 8-10 at least in every city Bis or Fargo size. MRI,s the same. When they put the first one in. Bismarck, they said the operating costs, maintenance would be over a million a year. Has that come down, gone up - I dunno.
And when PET scanners came out they were so prohibitably expensive there was only 3 or,4in the entire country, places like Mayo Clinic, one or,two back,east and one or,two on the west coast, etc. That stuff costs a lot of money, but shouldn't relative mass production bring down costs? Or do,we really need that many? Now there seems to be PET scanners everywhere, and Several patients I know well have had several, one had many following her tumors over the years. 
Lots of questions, few answers from me. Sure glad I'm out of it! (Though Bruce has been saying that about me for years! LOL)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Though Bruce has been saying that about me for years! LOL)


 If I was it would only be so I could meet you for coffee when I'm in Bismarck. We spent most of last week there taking care of the grandkids while their mom was on a business trip. There was a fellow in Scheels buying a new bow release that looked a lot like the guy in your skydiving pic. I almost asked him his name, but thought he may think me a nut job.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Dear Paul Ryan and Republicans, I didn't realize that Medicare and Social Security were not entitlements.I accidently paid into them every paycheck for decades.

Please mail me a refund check before you even think about cutting my benefits.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Dear Paul Ryan and Republicans, I didn't realize that Medicare and Social Security were not entitlements.I accidently paid into them every paycheck for decades.
> 
> Please mail me a refund check before you even think about cutting my bevedits.


Now that is an entitlement. I don't think people who swim the Rio Grand are entitled though. If the republicans screw with what a person paid into they should be whipped.


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