# surplus



## Colonel Sanders (Sep 24, 2005)

I was wondering are military surplus firearms a good deal? Has anybody ever bought surplus firearms? Any info would be great thanks for the help, Nick.


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## clampdaddy (Aug 9, 2006)

I like pretty much all of the old military bolt actions exept the mosin nagant. Military mausers, springfields, krags, and enfields make good shooters and hunting arms (the springfield being my favorite). The japanese arisaka has a reputation for being a strong action but the ammo is hard to find and I've never had the pleasure of shooting one so I can't give an knowledgeable opinion about them. The swiss schmidt & rubin is a really neat rifle and also very accurate but ammo is also a little hard to find. Hornady is makeing some of the hard to find military ammo. If you are looking to get a military rifle so you can restock and rebarrel it to make a proper hunting rifle, I'd go with a 98 mauser. If you want something cheap thats easy to find ammo for, I'd go with an enfield in 303 british or one thats already been converted to 308. If you want to spend some money and have a good shooter with really easy to find ammo, get a springfield. Mine's a tack driver and they shoot good 'ol find it anywhere 30-06. If you get a springfield make sure you ask for a "high number" gun. The early ones had a problem with the heat treatment of the reciever and are best left as wall hangers.


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## Colonel Sanders (Sep 24, 2005)

thanks for the information does anyody know of a website that sells surplus firearms


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

www.aimsurplus.com
www.jgsales.com
www.southernohiogun.com
www.samcoglobal.com

to name few to start.

You can also check out www.cruffler.com


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## irish (Jan 18, 2004)

If your looking for surplus you need to go to the CMP web site 
you can get what ever in us you need many choices there.

Irish

:sniper:


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## Colonel Sanders (Sep 24, 2005)

thanks for all the help guys


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## Colonel Sanders (Sep 24, 2005)

Which rifle would you guys pick for targets and maybe coyote hunting?


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## clampdaddy (Aug 9, 2006)

Depends on how much you want to spend and whether or not you are going to put a scope on it. I think the springfields and enfields have the best sights if you plan on shooting iron sights. The mausers sights are kind of hard to do presision shooting with.


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## Colonel Sanders (Sep 24, 2005)

I would put a scope on it and would like to keep the cost down.


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## clampdaddy (Aug 9, 2006)

I think a british enfield would be your best bet. Especiallyif you can get one in 7.62 X 51mm Nato (also known as 308 winchester). Theres a company that sells some sweet enfields that have been cleaned up, rechambered, nickle plated, and pretty much whatever you could want. If I remember correctly they are called Gibbs Arms (or something like that). And thier rifles are still very affordable. I'm not sure what state your in but here in Cali. the local Big 5 sportinggoods store alwys has a couple enfields on the shelf. They are usually 303s but once in a while a 308 shows up. Get yourself a Shotgun News the next time you're at wal mart, there's a ton of surplus rifles in there. Once you find what you want, take the papper to a gun shop and have them order it for you.


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## clampdaddy (Aug 9, 2006)

I just did a google search and the name of the company is the Gibbs Rifle Company


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Colonel Sanders said:


> I was wondering are military surplus firearms a good deal? Has anybody ever bought surplus firearms? Any info would be great thanks for the help, Nick.


You kiddin'?! I collect the darn things... My wife thinks I have an SKS breeding ranch!

There are some GREAT deals in surplus rifles. Surps always have a little work to do (cleanup etc.). Frequently they come out of the box looking like they were used to stir a vat of cosmoline (a THICK waxy grease used as a preservative). However, if you're not averse to a little work (the amount varies by type), they can be a great value.

Which one you're really looking for depends on what you want to do with it. I have a few Russian Mosin-Nagant rifles that I practiced with all summer to make me a much better shooter. If you buy cheap surplus ammo, it's a real rifle caliber at like 8 cents/round (however almost all surplus ammo is corrosive, so rinse the barrel out with hot water and clean as normal right away when you get done shooting).

Mosins can be a lot of fun. The 7.62x54r cartridge packs a lot of wallop, and you can get M44 Carbines for like $70 (in catalogs or something like $100 at Fleet Farm when they go on sale). However, for hunting their safety is a bugger to work, and HEAVY triggers make them a little tough to lay down pinpoint groups with!

I absolutely LOVE my Garand... I can break clays at 100 yards with open sights, but it would be heavy for hunting... and I don't think I'd do it because it's too much of a collectors' piece.

Mausers! Turk Mausers are like $59 in the Southern Ohio Guns catalog, but they are LONG. Now, a guy can get Yugoslavian Mausers for $100 that would be decent hunting rifles. Practice all you want with still-plentiful surplus ammo! The only problem is that, come hunting time, American commercial ammo is loaded pretty light. Older rifles chambered in 8mm Mauser were designed for black powder and can't take decent loads... so, worrying about the liability, they load for the lowest common denominator. Now, if you reload, or buy European made commercial ammo it's in the same power neighborhood with .30-06. However, American commercial is still tolerable for most people.

The K31 Swiss: Probably my favorite rifle of all I have! These things can SHOOT! At the range everybody stops and stares when I pull my bold straight back (kinda fun to draw the attention actually). However, ammo isn't as easy to find, and unless you reload, decent hunting ammo is EXPENSIVE. AIM has them for $150. They're usually in really nice shape.

The SKS: FUN FUN FUN. I did hunt with my Yugo SKS once, but you'd better be able to hit with it, because at best it's about like a .30-30. However, at "brush-gun" ranges you should be fine. You can find hunting ammo. However, when you get one, expect to spend half a day getting the cosmoline out of the nooks and crannies!.

Enfields: I have 2 #4s in .303 Brit., and an Indian 2A1 in 7.62 Nato. All very accurate! Technically 7.62x51 is NOT .308 Win. The .308 generates higher pressures, and using it regularly in an Enfield isn't a great idea from what I hear. However, there are plenty of guys who just do it and get away just fine. You can get ahold of .303 ammo, but it's like $18/box... that's why I don't shoot mine very often unless I order some European made stuff. You can't get decent surplus .303... now 7.62 NATO is a different ballgame. AIM has the 2A1 in 7.62 right now for $170, but the Indians put a crappy black enamel paint all over them, and it's a pain to remove... do what you like, but I removed mine because it chips off anyhow. Enfields are a practical hunting rifle, and scope mounts are available. A lot of people are alarmed by how easy the bolt comes back, but as long as the handle doesn't jump when fired they're fine. They're cock-on-close, so if the rifle is cocked when you lift the handle the spring will pop the bolt back for you. If you buy one, make sure to look down the barrels and make sure the riflings are decent (goes for any "Surp")... I had to hand pick quite a few when I bought mine at Fleet Farm.

Those cover most of the readily-available families of surplus rifles at this point...

Don't judge a book by it's cover. Even the ugly ones can shoot really well if they have a decent barrel. Even some that have "sewer-pipe" barrels have been known to shoot really well! They're always really reliable, but expect to have to adjust the sights some (my Mausers shoot like 8" high at 100 yards... I've been to lazy to adjust).

Make sure you shop around a little... prices can vary WILDLY for the same thing. Condition makes a big difference in price, but if it has a decent barrel it could always be re-finished.

I case you didn't figure it out , I like this topic a lot :wink:. Watch out... they're addictive.


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## Chestnut (Aug 9, 2006)

Erm, sidenote on the 8mm...

It's not that they were loaded with blackpowder originally, the reason they download it is there are four different 8mm cartriges. Two with rims and two without, one of each in .318 and .323 diameters. They are otherwise identical, and if you shoot a .323 bullet down a .318 barrel (which would be on an old military gun) it would exceed SAMMI pressure and maybe blow up the gun. But the .318, not surprisingly, does not shoot well in a .323 barrel- so they load a .323 bullet at pressures light enough that they PROBABLY won't blow up an old gun with a .318 barrel. But measure your barrel and don't shoot .323 in .318. It's just not a good idea.

They break down like this:
8x57J is .318 no rim
8x57JR is .318 rimmed
8x57JS is .323 no rim
8x57JRS is .323 rimmed

In Europe (I've heard) they are treated as four different calibers, but in America we've been calling them all 8mm Mauser. Almost all the guns you find are 8x57JS (.323 no rim), but the others are out there.

Got all this from G&A and Shooting Times articles.


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## rasmusse (Oct 24, 2006)

I have a lot of the military surplus rifles. Some would make very good hunting rifles. The Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 Swede and the Swiss K-31 in 7.5x55 Swiss are probably the most accurate. 6.5x55 ammo is not that uncommon, they sell it at Fleet. 7.5x55 Swiss military match ammo can be ordered from MidwayUSA for about $24 per 60 rounds. You can easily reload Swiss ammo since the bullets are standard .308 in size and you can reform cases from .284 Winchester brass.

The cheapest surplus rifles are the Mosin-Nagant variants 91/30, model 1938 and model 1944. The model 1938 is a very handy and light rifle that is my "truck gun". The 7.62x54 Russian ammo is plentiful and cheap if you buy it by the case lot. It is corrosive but just clean the barrel with hot soap and water or an amonia/water mix right after shooting and before normal cleaning and you will not have a corrosion problem.

There are also some very nice surplus rifles from Yugoslavia, the model 24/47 and the model 1948. There is a lot of cheap surplus 8mm Mauser ammo available in case lots and it is also commonly seen on the shelves of larger sporting goods stores.

Finally, you still see the British Enfields in either .303 British or the Ishapore models made in India in 7.62 NATO.

All of the above rifles can be had for under $200 with the exception of the Swedes (they used to go for $85 a rifle 10 years ago.)

If you are really interested you should consider applying for a Curio & Relic Federal Firearms License. The cost is $30 for 3 years and only a couple pages of paperwork. With a Curio & Relic FFL in had you can buy C&R firearms directly from the importer or wholesaler and have them delivered to your door via UPS. There are some recordkeeping requirements of course but these are not burdensome. Give it a try.


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## rasmusse (Oct 24, 2006)

If you are looking for an accurate surplus rifle that can easily be outfitted with a scope get a Swiss K-31 and a St. Marie scoupe mount. Brownell's and Graf & Sons carry the St. Marie mount. Aim Surplus and others have the K-31's for sale. The mount does not require drilling or other gunsmithing and will not harm the rifle. It can be removed and reinstalled without changing zero. The Swiss military surplus 7.5x55 Swiss ammo is all match grade noncorossive ammo with boat tail spitzer bullets. If you buy it in case lots it is economical.


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## caribukiller (Oct 30, 2006)

lee-enfield 303 a hunting gun and ammo is cheap (well it is for me my dad used to jet 250rds a year) and there great hunting guns. if you get surp ammo try to get canadian bullets because the brass is better that the british brass


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