# .25-06 vs. .30-06 vs. .308 vs. .270



## biggamehunter69

*Which Would you have*​
.25-064321.72%.30-065829.29%.3084120.71%.2705628.28%


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## biggamehunter69

what are the main diffences between these calibers? Which one is more accurate? Which has better ballistics? Which one is flatter shooting at long ranges? Which one would you recomend and prefer?


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## Remington 7400

The .25-06 is better ballistics wise, it is faster flatter and alot of shooters feel that it is more accurate. However, it is the weakest knock down power wise of the 4.

The .270 is your next best ballistic round. It is both flatter and faster than the .30-06 but generally fires lighter bullets and therefore offers less knockdown power.

Many people will tell you that the .308 and .30-06 are identical. They are not exactly, the .308 is a lighter kicking short action round, it offers trajectory and ballistics VERY similar but not identical to a .30-06.

The .30-06 is the most versital round of the 4 you mentioned, you can get loads ranging from a 110 grain varmint load to a 220 grain solid capiable of taking buffalo. Horse power wise, it has the most knockdown and ballistics wise most factory loads will push a 150 grain bullet(the most common load) somewhere around 2850 FPS depending on the bullet type and manufacture. Trajectory wise it is no slouch either, a shooter that takes the time to learn his rifle/scope/load combination should have little problem connecting on deer sized targets at 400+ yards.

I can't really tell you which cartridge is best for you. It all depends on your terrian, the game you will be taking and your personal preference.

For example, if you are interensted in glassing and stalking pronghorn either the .270 or .25-06 in a quality bolt gun, would be good choices, where as if you are mainly interensted in deep woods hunting or deer drives the .308 or .30-06 in a fast handeling pump, semi-auto or carbine length bolt gun would be your best bet.

However, if I could only have 1 gun it would without a doubt be a Bolt action .30-06 with this rifle I could hunt everything from coyotes all the way to grizzly bear simply by changing loads.


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## People

Remington 7400 stated that very well. Although I have to say each one of them can shoot very well. We all have that that gun that shot great no matter what you put in it, then we have that that gun that would not hold a 6inch group no matter what you did. With that said the 308 probably has the most accuracy potential.

Chuck Norris kills 14 white people at the end of every week just to prove he isn't racist.


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## Invector

I find it hard to compair a .25-06 to the others. The other loads can be found in the same grain bullets. The .25-06 is found in smaller ones. Look on Winchesters site and you will see that the .25-06 for the most part is a faster gun but does have the energy that the bigger grns have. To understand what I mean a bit better try copairing the .25-06 to somthing like a .243 and compair the rest to the mighty .300 or the .338.


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## bwnelson

The relative merits of various cartridges have been debated since man began to stuff brass with powder and stick a hunk of lead on it. Over far too many hours of thinking bout the topic I buy into a few prime nuggets ...

1. The best cartridge is the chambering of your favorite rifle. For all intents and purposes there is incredible overlap in the uses for most all modern centerfire cartridges. If there is a rifle that feels right to you (for whatever reason) the best cartridge is the one that will make it go bang.

2. Modern premium bullets (particularly the TSX) have radically narrowed the performance gap between cartridges. A strong argument can be made that a 25-06 with a 100 TSX will give similar terminal performance to a 180 gr cup and core factory 30-06 load. OK trolls ... back under the bridge ... I'm not sayin ... I'm just sayin ... That I would not feel uneasy packing a TSX stoked 25-06 vs most any cervid in North America.

3. That being said, if a person doesn't handload, the 25-06 is the worst choice of the 4 polled due to fewer options with factory ammo.

Putting money where my mouth is? Well, should I ever get drawn for a moose tag here in MN, I'll likely be packing my Shillelagh, mannlicher stocked FN 7x57, with 140 gr TSX and peeking out a 1.5-6x42 SII. Have access to a couple Whelans and other bigger things, but carrying the coolest gun that will do the job means something to me.

Just so as not to hijack the thread ... a 25-06 is more than adequate for most anything roaming the great plains these days ... particularly if you handload and is the only one of the mentioned cartirdges in my safe (currently harboring M700 MTN .280, M70 FWT 6.5x55, said Shillelah, and the .25-06 comes out of a Browning 78 High Wall through 26 inches of octagonal death). But no flies on any of these cases for general purposes.

How's that for not much of an answer?


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## Scooter

I have to agree with bwnelson. With the new line of premium bullets avialable the once solid lines between calibers has been blured. I personaly am using a .338 RUM right now and I am loving it I load anything from 210gr TSX's to 250gr Hornady Interlocks with great sucsess. To choose one of those that are listed I would go for the 30-06 in my mind it offers the most vercitility. You can load 110gr slugs for varmints on up to a 200gr TSX that would put a whole lot of hurting on anything you whacked with it!


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## Hawkseye

All four cartridges have their pros and cons...but if you are just trying to hit a far off target on a 25-30mph cross-windy day, my bet is with the 25-06 or 270 at 3200 fps. I had a heavy barreled 25-06, and my buddy had a well tuned 30-06. We were shooting at a standard Outer's Target at 500 yards (lasered) on a very windy day with the wind blowing at 90 degrees across our trajectory path. The 30-06 had a hard time staying on the 4'x4' board. My 25-06 put one in the half inch red dot center, and then I changed my windage slightly, and the other two were 2.5" to the left about 3/4" apart, so the entire group was under 3" in spite of the heavy crosswind.

I took a nice mule deer that weighted around 350 at 307 yards with the 25-06. With the right bullets, it is adequate for anything in the lower 48, and I have read an article about a guy who used one to cleanly take a large grizzly in Alaska.

On the other hand, and because of the heavier bullets, I would rather have the 30-06 on an elk or griz hunt...

It all depends on what you are trying to do with them, but just so you know, I have both :wink:


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## Scooter

Hawkeye,

Not to berate your story or the 25-06 but it sounds more like you just flat out shot your buddy that was useing the 30-06. Bigger heavier bullets tend to be less sensitive to wind than lighter smaller bullets ever if they are shot at a higher velocity. Also the design of the bullet and the B.C. will determine the bullet's ability to travel through a wind and impact a target accuratly down range. The most important thing in any shooting situation is the ability of the shooter. But a 3" group at 500 yards with no wind let alone a heavy cross wind is real good. I have seen worse groups than that at 100 yards with no wind at the range before! I do agree very strongly on the 30-06 for elk and grizzly to me it would be the better choice.


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## Hawkseye

Scooter...

It is a common error of thought that bigger heavier and slower bullets "buck" the wind better. That is simply not true...Time of flight is everything, and it takes into account sectional density, ballistic co-efficient, and initial velocity. The amount of time that a bullet is subjected to the wind drift is directly proportional to the amount of drift. A 3200 fps 25-06 bullet will shoot the pants off a 2800fps .30-06 bullet in the wind 7 days a week. Any other conclusion is purely erroneous. The .30 caliber bullet's difference in ballistic co-efficient simply does not make up for the difference in initial and retained velocity at 500, 600, 700, 800 yards. Somewhere out there it would catch up...the algorhythm becomes complex, but at 1000 yards, the 25-06 100 grain bullet is still clocking 1144 fps, and the 30-06 165 SPBT is clocking 1178 fps, so it takes 1000 yards for the 30-06 to even catch up with the 25-06 in velocity, but because the 25-06 covered the first 700 yards significantly faster than the 30-06, it will still arrive at the 1000 yard mark faster. Somewhere after 1000 yards, the 30-06 will indeed catch up with the lighter 25-06 bullet, but my tables will not go that far, and at that distance and beyond, your argument becomes valid from the standpoint that the 30-06 arrived to the target in less time, and hence, drifted less. It is more physics than opinion.


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## Scooter

Hawkseye,

Let me say that your are mostly right. But I was basing my statemant from data that I obtained from a Weatherby vanguard 30-06 that I used to own. I had achieved 3000fps from a 165gr bullets using 57grs of H4350. Now with that data we are closer to equal at 500yards with a mere .8" difference in wind deflection with a 10mph wind according to my Barnes manual. With a favor of 300 to 400 ftlbs of energy at that distance. So at 500 yards I still think that you out shot your friend and the results had more to do with skill and less to do with caliber selection. Also I don't believe that 3000fps from a 165gr bullet fired from a 30-06 is all that common given factory rifles and factory ammo but my rifle did it with safe handloads.


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## Hawkseye

Scooter said:


> Hawkseye,
> 
> Let me say that your are mostly right. But I was basing my statemant from data that I obtained from a Weatherby vanguard 30-06 that I used to own. I had achieved 3000fps from a 165gr bullets using 57grs of H4350.


Heh heh..you didn't mention that you were achieving near .300 Winchester Magnum velocities. What is interesting is that I use the exact same load in my Ruger 77, but I chrono only 2700 fps, so I guess that we are both right within the limited parameters of two rifles.

Having said all that, it certainly is not common for a 30-06 to achieve 3000 fps with a 165 grain bullet, and it is certainly out of SAAMI specs, but no doubt, safe in that Weatherby action, so I would stick to the 25-06 as the best bet on a windy day for the layman, or non-reloader to get to a target at any reasonable hunting range in the shortest time.

But, like I said, I have both, and a Win 300 Mag too, and a .270 would sure round out my collection...heck, they are all excellent :beer:


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## Scooter

Hawkseye,

I looked up my old data and found I was little mistaken my actual speed was 2956fps with that load. Still that velocity is not what you find in a manual but what can I say that rifle was a fluke and I kick myself for selling it. That load is in SAMMI specs though it just depends on which manual you look in I guess. But as you said they all fun to shoot. I luvin the hell out of .338 RUM right now it's another over achiever(3000fps witha 250gr Hornady)and can't wait for my .264WM to be finished!


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## dennis_d

can i vote for the 7 mag? :sniper:


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## Invector

All are good guns. The thing that seperates them is the size of round they were made to shoot. You realy cannot compair a 165g form a .308 to a 117g form a .25-06. I was just out shooting and the wind affected the .25-06 that I was shooting and not the .308. This case size and speed made getting though the wind easier. The .308 probalby has the down fall when it comes to flat shooting, but a .30-06 is right there with it. I just seen a guy shoot a rock at 600 yards with little effort with a .308 and had a bit of trouble adjusting to the wind with his 22-250 he also had. All guns shoot very well. When you look at it what are you shooting at and how much recoil do you want makes the differance. your not going to go out and shoot elk with a 25-06, but there are people that say a .308 is better for elk then say a 270 or a 30-06. The fact you can get ammo for all of them for elk but the 25-06 means how much more impact the 3 bigger guns have. Things like round type factory or self loading slug type will all make a big differance when shooting. I just learned that myself. For example I just got a new 25-06 to go along with my .300. I just put a new scope on the .300 and had far less trouble shooting the .300 to get it sighted where I wanted it then I had with the 25-06. It took a while to get the smaller gun sited. Wind is a major factor in the troubles we had. I like the .300 for the impact and long range I has. I dont like the recoil it puts out. I like the 25-06 for its light weight easy to handle and it has good speed and impact pluse if I want to use it for varmints I can, but I feel that its better used at the closer ranges for deer and same myself and shoot they bigger gun at long ranges. Out of the guns you listed I would say all have about the with the 25-06 being the smallest in speed and impact and just a bit lower balistics with the ability to get about a .4 co. the .270 is prabably the flattest shooting out of them all. The 30-06 has the most impact and the .308 is the self loaders dream.


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## sdeprie

I have read this thread with a lot of interest. I voted for the 30-06 as I truly believe that it is the most versatile caliber available. There are more powerful 30's, faster this or that, etc, but I think the 30-06 has the best balance overall. I read the note regarding "Bucking wind" with velocity as related to less time in the wind. I submit that most serious benchrest shooters have gone from 22 cal to 6mm for the ability to buck wind with a heavier bullet. I have studied the ballistic charts and found a number of interesting facts. A 100 gr bullet out of a 25-06 does not go twice as fast as a 200 gr bullet from a 30-06. A 100 gr .257 bullet sheds velocity much faster than a 200 gr .308 bullet. The end trajectory is not nearly what I thought it should be for the "speedy" 25-06, and not nearly as much better than the 30-06. There are many mysteries about ballistics, and I sure as h---eck don't understand them all. The 25-06 shoots faster than the 30-06 with comparable bullets, but it won't ever provide as much energy with the same comparable bullets. Which is more accurate? That is probably more a function of rifle, shooter, quality of loads than inherent accuracy. If we are at a point that we are looking for inherent accuracy potential, we're not talking about hunting rifles anymore. At that point we're talking about benchrest rifles. We're talking about weighing each bullet and sorting them, weighing each case and sorting them, weighing every powder charge to the 10th of a grain, etc. If that's what we mean, the 308 has it. All four are inherently accurate enough, and more, for hunting purposes.


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## clampdaddy

Hello folks, I am just learning to use this electronic contraption and stumbled upon your discusion. This is one of the biggest debates around the camp fire in our deer camp, and although I realy do love both my prized pre-64 m.70 and my sporterized 03-A1 30-06s I always seem to grab my 25-06 when it's time to go hunting.
I do realize that the 30-06 is definitley a very versitile cartridge, and for the one gun hunter it's hard to beat ,but who wants to be a one gun hunter ? The 25-06 is by far a better round for varmints and predators and I believe it,s just as good for deer. I would definitley give the 30-06 the go-ahead when bear and elk are on the menu, but I think if had the oprtunity to hunt these animals I would still look deeper into the gun safe and find something with a little more thump.....like my 45-110 Sharpes.
By the way, Does anybody have a good recipe for a 110 gr. tsx in 270wsm?


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## MossyMO

I have a 2 - .223's, a .243, 2 - .270's. a 30.06, 3 - 7.62X39's and a 7.62 X 54, but quite honestly I think the 25.06 is the master of all !!! I want one.


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## clampdaddy

Get one and you wont be sorry! I use 58 grains of H-4350 behind a 75gr. V-MAX and it is pretty darn amazing. Even though it starts out slower than some of the large cased .22s and .24s the extra twenty grains of weight seem to help it get across wide open spaces a bit faster, and whatever little critter gets in its way is in for a really bad day.
As for bigger game I am sold on the 117gr. SST's. My baby likes 49gr. of IMR-4350 and it seems to be a really great load, plenty of power for even large deer and very easy on the shoulder.


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## xHogHunter

What this all about? You have the 30-06 and three of it's children. Before the flak starts the .308 was Eisenhower's BS brainchild to get the M14 (nothing but a Garand with a clip) to shoot full auto, Ha Ha Ha and is nothing more than a 30-06 short and it performs that way. Yes, yes I'm a 30-06 man and proud of it. Narrow of mind and wide of body.


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## OneShotOneKill

* Any cartridge based on the 30-06 Springfield is never a wrong choice.

30-06 Springfield parent of:
6mm-06
25-06 Remington
270 Winchester
280 Remington
338-06 A-Square
35 Whelen
& 308Winchester parent of:
243 Winchester
260 Remington
7mm-08 Remington
358 Winchester
& so many wildcat configuration too many to list. 

Given a choice I choose the 30-06 Springfield, because it beats the smaller calibers easily and nips at the heals of the old belted magnums. 

Take care,
OneShotOneKill*


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## mgnordstrom

This will be my first year dear hunting, and have read all of these replies. With all the physics aside, I am still debating between the 30-06 and the 270.
As of right now white tails are the only species on the menu, but I would like to be prepared for a possible big game hunt. any response would be helpful.
gn


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## mikemcc

mgnordstrom said:


> This will be my first year dear hunting, and have read all of these replies. With all the physics aside, I am still debating between the 30-06 and the 270.
> As of right now white tails are the only species on the menu, but I would like to be prepared for a possible big game hunt. any response would be helpful.
> gn


You'll get a range of opinions about this, mgnordstrom, but one thing everyone will agree with is that whichever gun you choose you need to be able to consistently put the bullet in the right spot. If you can do that, either the .270 or the .30-06 will be fine for deer. If you are thinking of some elk or moose hunting in the future, I would go with the .30-06 or you might split the difference and get a .270 WSM. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt elk or moose with my .270 WSM; the only thing is that the bullets are a bit more expensive than either a straight .270 or a .30-06 and you can't find them at all unless you go to a really big sporting goods store. But if you can afford an elk or moose hunt, you can afford a crate of the .270 WSMs so you wouldn't have to worry about that too much.

For me, a .270 is great for deer and then down to coyote and varmints. A .270 WSM or a .30-06 is great for deer and then up to elk or moose. But that's just me and my personal preference -- you'll probably get responses that say a .270 is fine for elk and moose and I can't say that I disagree with that -- it's just not my preference.


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## OkieYodler

No matter what you guys say I think we can all agree that the .30-06 Springfield is the most proven and versatile caliber ever. A .270 is very comparable to it though. The .308 is probably one to two clicks down from the .30-06. But, the .25-06(my dream caliber) is known to be basically a little magnum gun on its own. It basically comes down to what is your favorite color?


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## DrHenley

I've shot deer with all four cartridges. They are all fine deer cartridges at reasonable ranges. The 270 will probably have the edge at extreme range (>500 yards)

The success ratio may be a bit surprising. I suspect it has as much to do with the bullet used as with the cartridge. Here is how they rank in rate of my success on whitetail deer and the bullets I used:

#1 - 25-06 120 grain Sierra HPBT GameKing at 3100 FPS. This particular load is the proverbial "Hammer of Thor" on deer out to 300 yards. They drop dead in their tracks. Period. No exceptions.

#2 - 30-06 165 grain Sierra HPBT GameKing at 2850 fps. I've had dozens of one shot kills at ranges from 60 yards to 400 yards. It doesn't always put them down in their tracks, but they don't go far. I've had one clean miss (shooter's fault) and one lost deer in 25 years of using this load.

#3 - 270 150 grain Ballistic Tip at 2950 fps. Looks really good on paper, but I was not thrilled with the performance on big bucks. The bullet has a tendency to either zip through soft tissue, or blow up when it hits rib. Either way, it doesn't leave much of a blood trail. The biggest buck I ever shot was with a 270, a solid double lung shot, and I lost the blood trail in a swamp over a quarter mile from where it was shot.
I went back the next day and searched half the day to no avail.

#4 - 308 165 grain SST at 2600 fps. This load was a major disappointment. It zipped right through a doe at 100 yards, and the blood trail petered out in a dense briar patch. I was used to using 165 grain bullets in my 30-06, but I guess they were a little too heavy and the SSTs did not expand sufficiently at 308 velocities. I sold the gun - If I get another 308, I will use 150 grain bullets.


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## waverider

hello to all, first timer, just browsing , interesting topics.

I personally prefer .308 used it in the military and as a hunting calibre although here in Australia we have a wide variety of game it does differ from that in America.I have shot vertually everthing available except crocs [prohibited] all with my .308 Sako with Swarovski 6-24x50AO.From foxes to water buffalo horses donkeys camels feral goat and pigs.randes out to 800 metres Sorry ABOUT THE METRICS  
the calibres that i have used range from .17 to .460 weatherby magnum
I was taught at a very young age never to be under gunned although it never really sunk in. Always experementing.with reloads and bullet weights and it all boils down to what game you are hunting, in my opinion if you feel that YOU and your rifle are up to the task AND YOU ARE CONFIDANT in your rig than thats what counts,everybody has there little baby, but one thing is for sure in my mind i would rather shoot a bear with a .460 weatherby magnum than with a 25-06 [personal prefrence]and last but not least where did DrHenley get his ballistic information from.
:sniper: GOOD HUNTING


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## DrHenley

waverider said:


> and last but not least where did DrHenley get his ballistic information from.


My Chronograph.

BTW I would not shoot a bear or an elk with a 25-06, just critters up to and including big whitetail deer.


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## jeuck87

i havnt messed with that many of those calibers but i own a remington model 788 308 and its one of the best guns i own. although i dont shoot more than 200 yrds it doesnt ardly drop at all and i used it for every kind of hunting i have done from groundhogs to whitetails it hasnt let me down yet.


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## sdeprie

I'm not sure I would choose the 25-05 for game larger than deer, say elk. But if that was what I had, with the right loads, it should be enough.


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## Habitat Hugger

With regard to the original 4 cartridges mentioned - anybody have a 4 sided coin??


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## deadkenny

The 06 'family' are all pretty similar, with the .25-06 skewed towards the 'varmint' end of the scale and the .30-06 skewed towards the somewhat larger game - the .270 being 'just right' :wink: in the middle. The .308 is somewhat, but not a lot, different from the .30-06. It can be fired from a 'short' action, with a bit less recoil and a bit lower velocity than the .30-06. So it comes down to 'fine tuning' your choice depending on the prevalence of different types of shooting: target vs. longer range vs. shorter range vs. larger game vs. smaller game. You won't be too far 'wrong' regardless of which one you choose. As someone said, shooting an Elk I'd feel a little 'undergunned' with the .25, but it's still viable given the right bullet selection. Similarly, I'd feel a little 'overgunned' shooting varmint at long range with a .30-06. How you feel about recoil factors into it as well.


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## iwantabuggy

Can you change the poll at the beginning of this post to all selection of all calibers?  The question is which would you have. Since I already have a:

22-250
260
270
7x57
300wm

The only one in the list I would want is the 270. The only one I would probably never use is the 30-06. I personally would like to round out my centerfire rifles by adding a 243, 25-06 and a (something in 338cal).

Can I vote for them all? If I had no rifle at all and I could only have one, knowing what I know now, I'd choose something in a 30 cal. I am not fond of the 30-06, but of the four, I guess it is what I'd choose.


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## People

Habitat Hugger said
"With regard to the original 4 cartridges mentioned - anybody have a 4 sided coin??"

I do not but one of my friends has a 36 side die and I guess we can devide by 9 then oh screw it get one of each after you get the one you want more first. :lol:


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## TRAPPERSC

I'm lucky enough to own .25-06, .308 Winchester and .30-06. All three are excellent calibers.

It reall depends on what your hunting.

The .25-06 shoots like a laser beam with 90 and 100 grain bullets out to about 340 yards. I nearly missed a deer at 330 yards this season because I aimed high (old .30 caliber drop compensator) at the top of the deers backbone. I hit the top of the deers backbone (No drop). The .25-06 in my opinion is an awsome open country deer caliber.

Either of the two .30 caliber cartridges will easily harvest any animal in North America. The .308 has a shorter bolt throw and for that reason alone is my preferance over the .30-06. I will nor plan to get rid of my .30-06 anytime soon.

Never been a fan of the .270 but it is a preformer. Remington has developed the 6.8MM for the military. It is a .223 necked up to 6.8 mm which equates to .270 roughly. I have read where some folks call it the perfect deer round LOL.

We all have favorites.

Buy you a nice rifle. Place a really nice scope on it with GOOD RINGS/BASES then find amo that shoots best and stick with it.


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## Bore.224

Fun stuff! But remember its the Indian and not the Arrow that matters! :beer:


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## weasle414

People said:


> Habitat Hugger said
> "With regard to the original 4 cartridges mentioned - anybody have a 4 sided coin??"
> 
> I do not but one of my friends has a 36 side die and I guess we can devide by 9 then oh screw it get one of each after you get the one you want more first. :lol:


I've got a couple of friends who play Dungeons & Dragons (shut up, it's nerdy but kind of fun) and they have four sided dies for it. We could borrow one of those.


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## 223 widow maker

Go with the 25. it is way more versitle than the 30-06. if you reload your own ammo you can go down to 75.gr bullets for varmits and up th 120 for medium to large size game. i have a remingtom 700 bdl in the 25. and have the max load for 75 gr. vmax and they go 3700 fps out the barrel and only have 25 in. of drop at 500 yds. for deer load the 120 sp. to roughly upper 2000 to lower 3000 in velocity. 25-06 for sure. if dont like that go with the 270. better for elk but not for yotes :sniper: :sniper: :koolaid:


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## d_handley00

i have all four. these are apples and oranges. all are great deer cartridges
and all are time tested and proven. the 270 and 25 06 are children to the springfield and the 308 i kinda like a cousin. the only one i could live without is the 270, it just kinda doesnt do anything for me. in 308 snf 30-06 it is so much easier to laod because most of the time i can use the same bullet and the 25-06 is like a 22-250 on steriods. i like its fast flat ballistics. so my vote is 25-06, 308, 30-06, then 270


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## yukonmedic

I just want to say, reading this form has made my day, it has been along time before I have sat down at the old reloading bench, when I was young my father would be reloading while all I got to do was mold bullets, I must of molded a ton of 38's. My father was old school, I had to learn to mold before I could touch my first case, and then the day came very I got to pull up on that handle of his old lyman press. I started out on a 30-06 springfield, we also shot a lot of revolvers on the range in the backyard. But old faithful was the 30-06 springfield, I remember the letters stamped on the side "US" it was custom, barrell and all, but main body was from an old 03 army rifle. He always told me that all bolt action rifles started from this old springfield, not forsure that is true, but I knew what he meant. Now I still shoot it, but my dream like some of you is to own a 25-06. I want to buy a 25-06, and was getting the most info on them before I go out and drop the big bucks. So I came across this form, and boy did I get more info in 5 mins than I ever thought I would get. Thinks for all the input. I shoot several types of weapons, all old school, I'm in the Army and just got back from afghanistan, so my JOB has me shooting assault weapons, and they do sever there purpose, but nothing in my hands feel better than a good all american bolt action, other than my 25-20 winchester 1893 model lever action, but I load it lightly to keep it around another 100 years. I have read all of your input, and it takes about wind and speed, and everything else under the sun, including which got there faster the chicken or the egg, but being a little wet behind the ears unlike some of you, I do know this, just like my wife as she is getting older, gravity does take over....and talking with snipers over the years, the army makes a lot of heavy boy sniper rifles due to the nature, but the heaver the weight the more the earth will pull it the the ground, so what we do is adjust for this, I got to shoot a friends rifle 25-06 "vanguard" and he brought it to my house because we had a range, I set him up on the bench, and he brought it out. I swear the first time I saw it, it glowed. He had some nice optics on it, and went to firing it, I set him up for 100, 200, and 300 meters. He shot pretty good, but then complained, he told me that Weatherby said you can cover a 3 shot group at 300 yds with a quarter, he did not achieve this, so I asked to shoot it, I'm a southpaw, so his optics where a little off to me, and guys you know what I mean, I grew up always holding a stock that had a right handed chin pad built in, but that doesn't make a difference, either you can shoot or you can't, I fired 3 shots (nice sand bags) and they hit a little high and to the right I think, but the best part was you could cover them with a dime, that is when I fell in love. Now with that being said, and sorry if I jump way off to left field, no matter what cailper you shoot, it is bullet placement. I love both the 30-06 and the 25-06, but to tell you the truth I could drop white tail all day long with my old 22 rem. target master with a 26 inch barrell, and have. Not anymore, but when I was young, I would squirrel hunt and deer hunt together. And I grew up in brush country, were a 30-30 is gold. So I never been big bear hunting, but I've seen first hand in west Texas what a 25-06 does to a mule deer, so please someone tell me if you shot a big bear in the eyes with a 25-06 it would laugh at you? Look at the deep sea fisherman, they don't use 1200 pound test to catch a 1200 pound fish, so to many people trophy hunters are to scared to make a head shot, I was raised to make head shots, including squirrels. I ve seen a lot of neck shots with a 25-06 and believe me in might go in with a little hole, but it comes out the size of a paper plate. Who said you got to shot a animal in the chest, go far that head shot, and you also will do a lot less tracking.


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## texcl

.25-06 has killed plent of elk and bear even before the premium bullets came out. Now with all the premium bullets around there is no reason not to use calibers like the .25-06 on elk. Bullet weight is only one factor sectional density and bullet construction is a bigger factor. That's why they have been using the 6.5x55 round in europe for years to kill moose it has so much sectional density it will fully penetrate a moose. If I were only going to kill elk and deer I'd get a 30-06 if I wanted to shoot coyotes, deer and maybe an elk someday I'd get the .25-06.


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## KRAKMT

Don't drive yourself crazy trying to pick the "best". We have too many options to decide from and then sit around second guessing the decisions we make. It is more important to pick a rifle that fits you and that your comfortable with, then shoot it- a lot. 
Any of those calibers will perform up to what you're capable of. The bigger limitation than the caliber or rifle is the shooter.
I will say that a lot of hunters in Montana shoot elk with a 25-06, I shot my elk this year with a 7mm-08 and head shot a buffalo. I would also use it for bear(black bear). If you really want to get into the ballistic gak between all the calibers compare some ballistics- 
http://www.biggameinfo.com/index.aspx?p ... lcalc.ascx
Take a nosler ballistic tip http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=7mm&s=262
and look at the drops for each caliber. I think you will be surprised at how close the drop is to each other.


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## lreed0740

id rank them as following

270
30-06
308
25.06

the 270 to me is that flattest shooting overall with good knockdown power
30-06 is by far the most versatile in grain loads with still good knock down power and shoots decently flat
308 is a heavy bullet with good knock down power but i have owned 2 of them and they never have grouped right for me and varied in shots at distnace with different loads.
25-06 is a good light weight gun but with much less knock down power, i have lost 2 deer due to its inability to make long distance shots with power (200+yds)

*** a 300 WSM isnt a bad choice either, versitile and not bad with knock down power

It all depends on the hunter and whats being hunted. You could just get all four and go from there though haha.


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## KurtR

If you dont hit the deer in the *** with the 25-06 it does the job much farther than 200+


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## Csquared

Much, MUCH farther than 200 yards


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## Swifty56

Having been a fan of the 25.06 for the last 25 years, I may seem a bit prejudiced, but since the 270, shooting a 140 gr at 3000 to 3100 fps, has only 25 ft lbs more energy. and drops only 1/10th inch less @ 200 yrds than a 25.06 shooting a 117 gr at the same velocitys, the flatter shooting aspect doesnt really apply.

Also if 2 deer have been lost using this caliber at 200 yrds +, then it was either poor shot placement, or the use of the wrong type of bullet. I have shot at least 30 deer over the years at ranges of 175 to 250, and have never fired twice except 2 times.

1 at 180 yrds using a hornady 120 gr HPBT, the bullet blew up on impact without ever entering the chest cavity, just stopped right inside the shoulder, still have that bullet with the hair and hide imbedded in the jacket base.

2nd was using a nosler 115 gr BT @ 220 +, the first shot punched a real nice 25 caliber hole through both shoulder blades, never expanded. needless to say I no longer use those bullets. Never had that problem with Sierra 117 gr Gameking FBSP.

All in all with the proper bullet the 25.06 is just as good of a deer and antelope round as any of the others mentioned, in fact I traded my 30.06 for a 25.06, and wouldnt trade my 25 for any of the others unles I was going to hunt Elk or larger.

Swifty


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## Longshot

The 260 is still my favorite with a bit better BC's.


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## xdeano

I'll agree the 260 has much better bullet selections. but the one thing it lacks in decent brass. You could always take 308 brass and neck it down though. 

xdeano


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## OKIE2

OkieYodler said:


> No matter what you guys say I think we can all agree that the .30-06 Springfield is the most proven and versatile caliber ever. A .270 is very comparable to it though. The .308 is probably one to two clicks down from the .30-06. But, the .25-06(my dream caliber) is known to be basically a little magnum gun on its own. It basically comes down to what is your favorite color?


I'll take the 25-06AI any day of the week with the 87 grain at 3920 FPS. NOW thats flat compared to any of them.


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## twever

I do not want to cause a big fight I would just like to ask a couple of questions here. If the 25-06, 30-06, and .270 are such great calibers, why do almost all law enforcement and army snipers use a .308? Why are almost all national and international long range matches won with a .308? Why does the .308 owe it's very being to the fact that the army needed something to replace the 30-06?
Everyone seems to overlook the.308 but the numbers do not lie. In test after test conducted by military and law enforcement agencies around the world the.308 won hands down. But in all the forums people just love the .270 and 30-06 the .25-06 is not even in the same class as the .30 calibers so it should not be included in this discussion. Just my take here guys.


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## 308

i like the 30/06 because i can load it with a 100gr. bullet up to a 220gr. bullet. i load mine with 125gr. nosler ballistic tips in front of 56.2 gr. of varget and get around 3300 fps. IMO it is the most versatile cartridge there is. :beer:


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## Piebald

If someone handed me either one of these four I wouldn't have a complaint. All are legends in my opinion. The .30-06 may be the most versatile but all are great rounds.


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## OKIE2

You sure hit that nail on the head
they are all very good


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## swampthing

All good deer rounds. I have actually witnessed the "thors hammer affect" that the .25-06 has on deer. I have also had big boars act like the were not even hit by the same round. I may have a little bit different take on caliber choice. The deer in GA, especially south GA tend to be on the small side, so any of the rounds would do fine. I may in the same day, be deep in the swamp where close up shots and fast handling are the norm. Hence the short action. I may also end up during the same day hunting the edge of a huge field were long shots can and do happen. I have the drop all the way out to 500 yrds written on my sling and use a range finder. The .308 has never let me down. 150s have proven to be equally effective on both deer and big hogs. I have owned many guns and do alot of trading/swapping out guns. I do not miss the .270 I had a bit.....One of the sweetest guns I ever owned and miss dearly was a Ruger #1 in 7X57......It would not shoot 1" groups, but in the woods it was one of the handiest guns I have ever toted and that round drops stuff beyond what it's balistics would have one believe.


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## One Shot Everytime

Just want to make a correction to oneshotonekills reference that the 7mm-08 was originated from the 30-06, IT DID NOT! The 7mm-08 Remington is a rifle cartridge that is almost a direct copy of a wildcat cartridge developed around 1958 known as the 7mm/308. As these names would suggest, it is the .308 Winchester case necked down to accept 7 mm (.284) bullets with a small increase in case length. Of cartridges based upon the .308, it is the third most popular, behind only the .308 itself and the .243 Winchester.[1] In 1980, the Remington Arms company popularized the cartridge by applying its own name and offering it as a chambering for their model 788 and model 700 rifles.

:thumb:


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## farmerj

the one you feel comfortable with and go out and practice with.

never fired a .25-06 or .270, no clue what recoil is like.

Between the .308 and the .30-06, I like the .308. I can get both to do what I want with the bullets I need, I can just do it with less felt recoil in the .308, so it's more enjoyable for me to shoot.


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## Fullboar

Longshot said:


> The 260 is still my favorite with a bit better BC's.


quote="xdeano"]I'll agree the 260 has much better bullet selections. but the one thing it lacks in decent brass. You could always take 308 brass and neck it down though.  xdeano[/quote]

I have used and owned all of them at one time or another and still use the .308 but if you want a gun for long range work the .260rem gets my vote. The .260 has better long range performance (trajectory) then a .300wm and more knock down power (penatration and KE) then the .308 at 300yds, it also has the same recoil as the 25-06. The .260rem is a .308 case necked down to 6.5mm (6.5mm08) and it doesn't cost a fortune to run or burn barrels like some hotter rounds as well as most magnums. The 6.5mm is just a sweet spot as far as BC is concerned that is why is starting to get a cult following in long range shooting (F class) and it has plenty of power to take everything up to the size of Elk from long range.
If you want quality brass for the .260 rem Lapua now make it
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/201 ... dge-brass/
The .260rem brass made by Nolser isn't bad either


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## rugerm77mkII

I personally have never shot a .270 much, and have never shot a .308 at all.... But something to keep in mind that the 30-06 and the .308 were used in the military as sniper rounds so a bit of food for thought.

Me personally i have a .25-06 and a 30-06. I like the 25-06 better because where I live, its deer, coyotes, antelope, fox, and prairie dogs. I shot 75 or 70 grain hornady's out for almost all of them.... alot of people don't like shooting the lighter calibers for deer and animals of that nature but it dropped my last 3 deer within 10 yards. I have also made shots upwards up to 400 yards without a huge over hold.

One last thing about the 25-06 is that you can load them for elk also. The .270 also. But as previously stated the modern calibers and everything whatever is in your favorite gun is what you should shoot. If you know the weapon and know how to use it ethically no reason not to use it.

Ps. I know you can shoot and easily kill an elk within decent range. My neighbor actually killed his 5x6 bull with a 6mm. (His 300 mag malfunctioned)

Happy hunting


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## Leonten

I do own all 4 of these. The 25/06 is a Remington 700 BDL with a 24" Barrel. Factory ammo with a 120 gr. bullet is only 2,727 fps (109 shots tested). The 30/06 is a Remington 700 ADL, 22" Barrel. This is my most accurate rifle, I worked up a maximum load with IMR 4064 & Hornady 150 gr. Spire point, many 5 shot groups have been 1 ragged hole at 100 yards. My 270 is also a Remington 700 ADL with 22" Barrel. I'm getting close to 3,000 fps with a 130 gr. bullet, but not quite up to 3,000 with my reloads. Factory ammo only got a tiny bit over 2,900 fps with a 130 gr. bullet. The 30/06 gets a tiny bit over 2,800 fps with a 150 gr. bullet. The 308 is a Winchester Model 88 Lever action with a 22" barrel. I get about 100 fps less than the 30/06 with 150 gr. bullet. Due to the rifling not stabilizing the 120 bullet (to my accuracy standards) in the 25/06 I load it with 100 grain bullets. This is the flattest shooting gun at 3,183 fps. I've taken several deer with my other 25's and the 100 gr. bullet, none went more than a few yards, at 300 fps less velocity. The 270 is also a fantastic gun on deer and I've used it on some pigs with great success too. However, if I had to choose only one of these it would be the 30/06. For wide open spaces & long shots (deer antelope) I'd take the 25/06. But I also hunt in thick cover (California pacific coast Blacktails) and I usually take my 257 Roberts (Ackley) improved. It's an ultra light and a pleasure to carry in the hills & thick stuff. But shots can be cross canyon types of shots so I like the extra velocity of the '06 over the 308 with the tiny bit better trajectory. (I know its minimal but it is there.) What moves the 30/06 to the top of the stack (in my book) is the ability to shoot the 180 gr. bullet at Elk. The bigger animals need a heavier bullet for maximum penetration. Although some my say the 270 will do for Elk, the 30/06 can be used on the big bears. In 1993 the Boone & Crockett club published a list of the top calibers used for all of the game it had records for & the 30/06 was high up there on the list on all the bears (#1 for Black Bear). Anyway, that's my two cents.


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## KurtR

20 years ago those speeds are good, now not so much. leaving alot on the table


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## Csquared

Was thinking the same thing, Kurt. If he likes a .30/06 with 150's at 2800 just imagine how it'd be with 165's 200 fps faster :wink:

Still LOVE quarter inch bullets though


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## Leonten

These are actual chronographed loads. When I first started reloading, the gunsmith told me the reloading manuals gave "optimistic" numbers. Just go back and read what I said about the 25/06 factory 120 gr. bullet. Everyone quotes figures that are way higher than actual figures. For the 120 gr. 25/06, Remington quotes between 3,080 and 3,100 fps, but in actuality I'm only getting 2,727 fps from the Remington load. That's 300 fps slower than they claim. If you haven't chronographed your guns, you'll be in for a surprise if you ever do. I've watched a lot of mouths drop when they saw the actual velocity from their guns. The 30/06 165 grain wouldn't be 200 fps faster, that's impossible. As I said, These are actual chronographed loads. Just where are you getting your numbers from? A reloading manual? From the factory? Both sources are giving "optimistic" numbers. My chronograph proves it every time.


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## Csquared

Dude, you might wanna do a little reading before you come on here and tell people the things we say are impossible. I never do load work without a chronograph, and my 165gr .30/06 load is with H-4350 and depending on ambient temperature is always one side or the other of 3000 fps.........in a 22" barrel. Sd's are usually single digits or low teens and 5 shot groups are one side or the other of 3/4" @100, and cases last at least through 10 loads. My .25/06 loads are also much faster than yours. I get well over 3200fps (one powder exceeds 3300) with 100 gr Ballistic tips and just over 3000fps with 120 gr Partitions......both also in a 22" barrel.



> Just where are you getting your numbers from?


From my Oehler chronograph



> My chronograph proves it every time.


What your chronograph tells me is that if it's speed your looking for you either need to add powder or pick a slower burn rate :wink:

Is there anything else I know that you'd like to say is impossible?


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## KurtR

Hell i have the 168 amax right at 2725 out of the .308 the last time i checked. All loads are checked with the chrony, ballistic chart made , then drop checked in field conditions. From what i have been told all loading manuals are very conservative. I love when some one says some thing is imposiblle and blown completely out of the water


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## huntin1

I'm pushing 175 Berger VLD's at an average of 2735 in my 308. Checked on an actual chronograph.

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express once too. 

Huntin1


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## T-Roy58

Now i use the 25-06 browning A-bolt with 120 gr bullets, the 25-06 is by far my favorite rifle, but I also love the 30-06 for more knockdown power, however if your are able to place the bullet right with the 25-06 on any animal you will be able to take it down I have killed elk, deer, black bears and coyotes with my 25-06. Really the gun you choose is all in what you grow up with


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## KurtR

pretty much all suck now that i am on the 6.5 hiway


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## Savage260

Kurt, I don't know what kool-aid you are drinking, but you sure aren't eating pudding! :wink: You probably don't even have any pudding! :lol: Every one knows the 7mm08 is the best EVER!!!

Seriously though, the 6.5s are cute and trendy, but they will never beat the manly 7s, aka 7RM, 7STW, 7RUM ect. :rock:


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## KurtR

manly my wife shoots a 7 rem in a sako finbear witch is a sweet rifle but sitting down an pumping 60 out of it aint the funnest. 7mm-08 was on my short list with the 162 amax but just wanted some thing different. seems the 6 and 6.5s are kind of the flavor right now http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... 732&page=1


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## Plainsman

MMMmmmmmm pudding. Coffee just isn't enough for breakfast. :wink: I don't have a 7mm and all of a sudden I'm feeling underpriveledged.  I have a 270 which is getting close, but can't compare to the 7-08. 

Kurt that was an interesting table you provided. It's crazy that my $285 barrel is shooting as well as my 6.5X284 Cooper all the way out to 1000 yards. Next summer I will have to find where the 6.5X284 pulls ahead in range. I think the farthest I have shot targets with it was 1350 yards. For long range accuracy the 6.5 are walking all over my 308 which is also very accurate. Now that I have four accurate rifles I'm going to dump the 308 for a lighter walking rifle.

As soon as my gunsmith gets his tax return I'm looking forward to selling him my Mark IV so I can put a Vortex on my 6.5 Creedmoor. My right eye keeps changing focus and I need to get a scope with the fast focus eye piece. I'm afraid I may have to learn to shoot left handed one of these days. I can do it with my bow, so how hard would it be with a rifle?


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## AdamFisk

Plainsman said:


> My right eye keeps changing focus and I need to get a scope with the fast focus eye piece. I'm afraid I may have to learn to shoot left handed one of these days. I can do it with my bow, so how hard would it be with a rifle?


My brother is left handed but right eye dominant. He struggled with it for years, and finally made the switch to shoot right handed rifles, bows and shotguns. It wasn't that difficult for him, actually. I couldn't imagine doing it, but it must not be as hard as a guy thinks. The rifle was the easiest and quickest for him to get comfortable with, bow second, and shotgun was the hardest I believe. If you can shoot bow left handed, I'd say rifle should be a breeze.

In your case though, it would suck going from right handed rifle to left handed. There are far less options if you're shopping left handed rifles, or left handed anything. Which is another reason why he made the change.


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## duckp

Plainsman,
I've done it,not that hard.Did it due to a retina detachment.Then the other eye 'detached'.  
No sweat,surgury has both back pretty well and now I use right or left depending on the situation.In a tree,layout blind,prone on a hillside,use the hand/eye needed.I look at it as most others being the handicapped ones.  
Good hunting!


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## alleyyooper

If I could only have one rifle/caliber it would be my 300 whinny mag. Load it down for white tails, up for grizzles. But I can have more so there is room for 243, 7MM08, 308, several 30-30's and a old 32 Special.

 Al


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## People

What is a "300 whinny mag"?

Chuck Norris' house has no doors, only walls that he walks through.


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## Savage260

I and most other normal people would assume the "300 whinny mag" to be a 300 Winchester Magnum. I am sure you understood it too, so you are just being an......


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## People

Many do not know what it means as there is no company called whinny. Why would a person put 300 whinny mag when it is easier to put 300 win mag, 300WM or just put the full name of 300 Winchester magnum? Seriously is it to be cute, is it a respect thing, lack thereof, or something else?

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could Chuck Norris? ...All of it.


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## KurtR

its like naming your car or rifle a thing people do. you know like old one eye it is shorter to type c0ck but it sounds cooler the other way.


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## Savage260

Kurt, why would you call my Uncle Ralph a cock? We always call him old one eye......after his little fishing rod mishap! :lol:


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## huntin1

I don't know why guys still argue about this. Everybody knows the 223 is far superior to anything else. For long range, zombies, or whatever, the 223 is the way to go. 8)

huntin1


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## jacksonhole

It would be nice to see some questions (and answers!) that were written in English that included proper spelling and punctuation. Some of the questions and answers make me wonder if the writers ever attended school. If it makes me think that one can only wonder what it makes the anti-hunting crowd think of us.


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## KurtR

jacksonhole said:


> It would be nice to see some questions (and answers!) that were written in English that included proper spelling and punctuation. Some of the questions and answers make me wonder if the writers ever attended school. If it makes me think that one can only wonder what it makes the anti-hunting crowd think of us.


So you offer nothing of substance and come and cry about how people type........how is this for a sentence? Go pi$$ up a rope.


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## GoodOl'FaceShooter

I would rank them as the following:

25-06 (personally I think speed kills)
30-06 (most versatile)
.308 (never shot before but heard good things)
.270 (I just wasn't happy with the results)

:sniper:


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## KurtR

about that time of year to start hearing about the amazing fast flat guns that kill deer at 500 plus just holding on their back. One thing about the quarter bores they don't have any decent boolits to take advantage of the speed


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## alignman

I must concur with Dr. Henley. 25-06 120gr Sierra game king 1grain less than max (57) if old memory serves correct, IMR 4350 hand loads and not crimping the neck will lay 3 quick rounds in a dime (1 cold bore, 1 warm bore touching first, 1hot bore almost touching first 2) from floated model 70 Win from rest with negligible windage using first gen Springfield Armory Govt. Model 4x14x56 optic is a smoke pole. Deer drop up to 300 easy, pigs lose their lid if you head shoot the eyes at 150-200, and the ballistics compensation of said scope (.30 cal military grade) work well with that load. This year I used white tail thug 120gr box ammo and got the same results on deer at 148yds and a pig at 158yds. 18 years and never tracked anything. If it's big, head shoot it if you know MOA correction. Good caliber with homework/talent.


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## KurtR

alignman said:


> I must concur with Dr. Henley. 25-06 120gr Sierra game king 1grain less than max (57) if old memory serves correct, IMR 4350 hand loads and not crimping the neck will lay 3 quick rounds in a dime (1 cold bore, 1 warm bore touching first, 1hot bore almost touching first 2) from floated model 70 Win from rest with negligible windage using first gen Springfield Armory Govt. Model 4x14x56 optic is a smoke pole. Deer drop up to 300 easy, pigs lose their lid if you head shoot the eyes at 150-200, and the ballistics compensation of said scope (.30 cal military grade) work well with that load. This year I used white tail thug 120gr box ammo and got the same results on deer at 148yds and a pig at 158yds. 18 years and never tracked anything. If it's big, head shoot it if you know MOA correction. Good caliber with homework/talent.


What does that even mean? It might have been military grade 50 years ago but surely has fallen way way behind the times. 300yds I don't know of any center fire rifle .223 and up that wont kill when shot I placed correctly. I will stick with my fast 6.5's as nothing in these four will touch it at distance


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## Canadian Buckeye

Hi all,

So I have a 25.06 and my wife is shooting a .270. Our Whitetail Deer hunting is all pretty much close range. Less than 50 yards. 
I am seeing good penetration with the 25.06 and factory ammo (Remington express Core-Lokt 100 gr). Quick drop with a heart/lung shot. Very little secondary damage. She is using Winchester Power Max 130 gr. But getting a lot of internal shock even with a well placed shot. Usually the diaphragm bursts and there is some downstream damage to the gut bag which makes cleaning a mess. Should she downsize the load?


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## Blu Corsair

30-06


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