# Handguns-n-Coyotes



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Morning all. I am new here, and as such should offer a little about myself. I am 51 years young, and have been hunting ever since I was old enough. About 10 years ago I discovered the joys (and heartaches) of calling Coyotes, and have been addicted to the sport ever since.

Back in about 1982 I sold off every rifle I owned and started hunting exclusively with Handguns. For the most part I have used T/C Contenders, Remington XP-100's, and Savage Strikers chambered for Rifle Type Cartridges. Naturally when I got the Coyote Calling bug these Handguns carried over into that as well.

So far I have used the .223 Remington, 6mm T/CU and .243 Winchester in Handguns for taking Coyotes. My favorite handgun-n-cartridge for this task is a Super 14 T/C Contender Handgun chambered for either the .223 Remington or 6mm T/CU Cartridges. The Scopes I use on these Handguns are the excellent 3x12x Burris LER Handgun Scopes and most of the shooting is done off of crossed shooting sticks.










Are there any other Handgun Hunters here, and what is your preference?

SD Handgunner


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I also love to hunt with handguns. My favorite is a TC with a SSK 250 Savage barrel with the Tasco custom shop 2-8 power scope. It is a true 1/2 inch gun combo if I can hold it that well. A great knock-about gun is my TC 10 inch in 7-TCU. My TC with SSK 45-70 barrel takes care of any and all of the big stuff which to date has been mostly gophers and deer, but someday I hape to change that. Farming seems to take up a lot of good hunting time. Where in SD do you call home? I have some land near Aberdeen and Redfield so I am in that area from time to time. Great bird hunting if I had the time, and some very good deer hunting there if again I had the time to go. What all do you shoot as far as the handguns go?


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

I am up in the extreme northeastern corner of South Dakota (t miles from the ND Border and 8 miles from the Mn Border) in the little town of Rosholt.

Currently I am just starting to rebuild my Contender Battery after having sold off everything last winter when I was on medical leave from work.

In the past I have used the following:

.22 LR Match Grade Super 14 Contender
.22 LR (Savage Strikers)
.223 Remington (both 10" & Super 14 Contenders & Remington XP-100's)
6mm-223 (2 different Bullberry Custom Contender Barrels & a Custom Remington XP-100)
6mm T/CU (V.V.C.G. Custom Contender Barrel and am waiting on an On Target Technology Custom Contender Barrel in this chambering)
.243 Winchester (Savage Striker)
.250 Savage (SSK Custom Contender)
7mm T/CU (10" Contender)
7-30 Waters (10" Contender)
7mm I.H.M.S.A. (Custom Remington XP-100)
.30-30 Winchester (Super 14 Contender)
.30-30 Ackley Improved (Super 14 Contender rechambered by SSK)
.44 Magnum (10" Contender)

So far I have picked up a SS Contender Frame and a SS Super 14 Match Grade .22 LR Barrel and a 3x12x32mm Burris LER Fine Plex - Pa Handgun Scope with Target Turrets. In addition I have a On Target Technologies SS Cutsom 6mm T/CU Contender Barrel on order (which I have a 3x12x32mm Burris LER Plex - PA Handgun Scope sitting her ready to be mounted as soon as the barrel arrives).

I am also working on a trade for another SS Contender Frame and a SS Super 14 .223 Remington Barrel as we speak. As for the future, I am planning on ordering another Custom SS Contender Barrel from On Target Technologies as soon as I get the 6mm squared away. I am thinking this next one will either be another .30-30 Ackley Improved.

I have worked with a couple Encores, working up loads for friends and accuracy testing them, but have never owned one. I may also have to remedy this someday, or maybe have another go at another Savage Striker.

SD Handgunner


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

Do you hve any good reloading data for the 250 savage? So far my best load is 36.0gr of BL-C(2) and the nosler BT 85gr. No bullets heaver than 90gr will shoot well in my gun. The 75gr barns x will shoot very well as will as thier 85gr bullet, but now both of these have been axed.


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

I basically used 3 loads in the .250 Savage SSK Contender.

#1 - Remington 100gr. PSP Factory Loads (averaged 1" for 5 shots at 100 yards from the bench).

#2 - 100gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip loaded with H-322 (I'd have to look up the charge weight) (This was a combination the late Bob Milek told me to try in a phone conversation and it turned out to be super with 5 shot groups at 100 yards off the bench averaging slighly over 1/2")

#3 - 75gr. Hornady Hollow Points loaded with W-748 (I loaded these loads for a last minute Prairie Dog Trip, and boy did they shoot. Velocity averaged 2950 FPS, but 5 shot groups at 100 yards from the bench average slightly under 1/2". I loaded W-748 as that is what I had on hand and was loading for my .223 Contender at the time.)

If I still had this barrel and were to do it all over again, I'd load the 100gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips with H-4895, and instead of the 75gr. Hornady Hollow Points, I would try the 75gr. Hornady V-MAX. In fact I have a bunch of test loads loaded with 100gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips with H-4895 for my old barrel that a buddy now owns, we just have not shot them YET. Now he went and bought a .284 Winchester HS Precision Pro 2000 Handgun, and seems to have lost interest in the .250 Savage.

I may have to try to buy it back from him some day when I get rich.

SD Handgunner


----------



## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

SD,

I have some cousins originally from Rosholt...the Pohls. Know em? I'm originally from the north side of the border. We used to go to Rosholt and Claire city to drink when the drinking age was 18.


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Yep I do. In fact I graduated from High School with Karen Pohl, but that was almost a life time ago.

SD Handgunner


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I will hae to give the H-322 and the 100gr BT a try.


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I will hae to give the H-322 and the 100gr BT a try.


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Here us some data I copied out of an article on the .250 Savage by the late Bob Milek.

.250 Savage, 14 1/2" Custom Remington XP-100 
Chamber & Throat Cut to Standard S.A.A.M.I. Specs. 
(Loads Loaded & Tested by Bob Milek)

75gr. Hornady Hollow Point = H-4895 = 36.0grs. = 3110 FPS
75gr. Hornady Hollow Point = H-322 = 35.5grs. = 3118 FPS
75gr. Acme Custom Hollow Point = H-322 = 34.5grs. = 3025 FPS
75gr. Sierra Hollow Point = H-4895 = 36.0grs. = 3047 FPS
75gr. Sierra Hollow Point = H-335 = 36.0grs. = 3113 FPS
87gr. Hornady Spire Point = A.A. 2520 = 35.5grs. = 2788 FPS
87gr. Sierra Spitzer = A.A. 2230 = 33.5grs. = 2793 FPS
87gr. Sierra Spitzer = H-322 = 33.0grs. = 2841 FPS
87gr. Sierra Spitzer = H-4895 = 35.0grs. = 2934 FPS
87gr. Sierra Spitzer = H-335 = 34.0grs. = 2897 FPS
87gr. Sierra Spitzer = W-748 = 35.0grs. = 2714 FPS
87gr. Speer Spitzer = H-322 = 33.0grs. = 2797 FPS
90gr. Sierra B.T.H.P. = H-335 = 34.0grs. = 2847 FPS
100gr. Hornady Spire Point = A.A. 2520 = 34.0grs. = 2643 FPS
100gr. Hornady Spire Point = H-335 = 33.0grs. = 2667 FPS
100gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip = H-335 = 33.0grs. = 2705 FPS
100gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip = H-4895 = 33.5grs. = 2768 FPS
100gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip = H-322 = 31.5grs. = 2645 FPS
100gr. Speer Spitzer = H-322 = 32.0grs. = 2722 FPS
100gr. Speer Hollow Point = H-335 = 33.0grs. = 2729 FPS
100gr. Remington Pointed Soft Point-Core-Lokt = Factory Load = 2573 FPS

I am not sure which magazine this article was in (I'd have to look again), but I do have the article saved. In the SSK 14" Contender Barrel I had I never was able to achieve the velocity Milek did in his Custom XP-100. However Bob Milek did tell me that if the .250 Savage is loaded to SAAMI pressures limits set forth for the .250 Savage and not exceeded this cartridge is perfectly safe in the Contender. The problem is that the cartridge is capable of pressures higher than the Contender is designed for


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

This is from an old guns and ammo from about 1987 or so if I remember right. It seems that when I push the 87gr bullets much over 2650fps I will get pressure signs with most any powder that I have tried. This is ok I guess, the accuracy is there at this speed, and deer and such seem to stpo just fine. I will have to do some more work with the heavyer bullets. This type of time is hard to find lately, as I have 18 month old twins, as well as my 9 year old son with a brocken leg as well as farming so perhaps it will be this winter that I will get time to do so. Thanks for the information.


----------



## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

whelen35, My kids are grown and I now have 3 grandchildren, and I'm stillllllllll looking for the time to do all the shooting I want to do. Good luck.
 Any thoughts about either the 17 HMR or 17 HM2 in a handgun?


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I have not shot the 17's yet. From what I have read, the 17hr2 the 22rl necked down would be interesting to me. The 17hmr would be great, but if you reload, why not get a 22 hornet and load 40gr bullets faster than the 22mag and get better performance. I see the 17 hr2 as a gopher gun that will not be as prone to have your bullet bouncing arround. 17gr bullets will likely not move much once it hits anything. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

whelen35, valid points. I don't know why I don't care for the hornet. I really don't know why. But if I was going the reloading route (which I do reload, a lot) I would probably go straight to the 223 and load down or maybe the 17 Rem. Of course, handgunning is an iffy proposition for me until I get eye surgery and I can see better. (It would help if I would wear my glasses, but you know.....) Handgun hunting is an area I want to enter, but think the time is either not yet, or too late. We'll see.


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

I have been using reduced velocity loads (NOTE I stated reduced velocity and not reduced pressure) in my .223's for several years now. The load I setteled on conists of 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips (these have a great Ballistic Coefficient and have proven to be quite accurate and super explosive) loaded with Alliant Blue Dot Powder.

Yes I know Alliant Blue Dot is not normally talked about in loading Rifle Cartridges, but believe me it does work. Extra care must be taken when working with Alliant Blue Dot in the .223 as this powder builds pressures rather rapidly. Start low and work up in 2/10 grain increments. I even know guys that use Small Pistol Primers instead of small rifle primers since the Small Pistol Primers are somewhat softer and show pressure at lower levels.

In the 10" .223 Contenders I have tested my 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip / Alliant Blue Dot Loads in the average velocity has been around 2800 FPS, and accuracy is quite good. In the Super 14 .223 Contenders I have tested my 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip / Alliant Blue Dot Loads in the average velocity has been around 2950 FPS, and again accuracy has been quite good.

Due to the high ballistic coefficient of the 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip these loads shoot amazingly flat for what they are, and are comparable to a 55gr. Remington or Winchester Pointed Soft Point fired at the same velocities. The only thing you give up is ENERGY, Barrel Heat, Muzzle Blast, and using as much powder per cartridge. With the load I am using I get around 500 rounds out of a pound of Alliant Blue Dot with my load using the 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Not counting the cost of the brass, I can load 50 rounds of this load for about the same $$$ as a 50 round box of .17 HMR ammo and get a lot more performance.

SD Handgunner


----------



## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Sounds great, still doesn't address my poor eyesight. I guess I'll have to invest in a Great scope (read expensive), eh?


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Oooooppss, guess my poor old eyes missed that part of it. I am 15 years young, am blind in my left eye (an accident when I was 5 years old), and have had a catarac removed from my right eye and a lense implanted. Given all of that, my vision in my right eye is pretty good so far. My eye glasses mainly make distant objects a little crisper, and the dad blasted Bifocals for reading.

NO not all Handgun Scopes are created equal, especially for longer range shooting. IMHO nothing beats the 3x12x32mm Burris LER Handgun Scopes for Varminting. Even from my crossed shooting sticks I can hold them fairly steady out to a couple hundred yards (provided I get my left elbow on my knee to help steady the hold). I find these scopes are quite user friendly up to about 10x.

For hunting Whitetails I have come to rely on the 2x7x32mm Burris LER Handgun Scope. It has a large field of view (actually the largest of any variable handgun scope available), and these to are quite user friendly. I used a 2x7x32mm Burris LER Handgun Scope this past Deer Season on my Super 14 .30-30 Ackley Improved Contender and it was just great.

Some of the other Handgun Scopes have fields of view that are so small I get the impression I am looking through a tunnel. Even the 3x12x32mm Burris LER Handgun Scope has as much field of view as most other variable handgun scopes and more than some.

Yes I know they are expensive, but then no one ever said Handgun Hunitng would be easy or cheap. IMHO they are worth it. I keep telling myself that I can just have a couple good scopes and move them from barrel to barrel, but find myself wanting a Burris for each and every barrel, even though it hasn't turned out that way yet.

SD Handgunner


----------



## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Man, I got to quit whining. My eyes are just wore out, is all. Reverse your age and you've got me. I used to be able to shoot handguns pretty well, but haven't picked one up till recently when I got a couple for home protection. Shooters, but not great, and certainly nothing to hunt with. But they make lots of big bangs in a hurry in a close space, so they're fine for what I wanted them for. My dream is to get fixed up with a good hunting handgun. Used to like the lone eagle, but getting scarce. Also am interested in the upper receiver for the 1911 in 308. (Can't go with anything normal, can I?) Wisest would be to just get a TC contender or same class, eh? And you're right, it's cheaper in the long run to just pay for a good scope first. SOMEDAY I'm gonna learn that. Don't hold your breath.


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

sdeprie

I learned it the hard way also. I started out with an old 7x Burris and a 4x Redfield many, many years ago. As I obtained more and more hunting handguns I couldn't justify spending the $$$ for what I needed and settled for less, and learned the hard way. Now after all of those bad experiences it is eaiser to justify a good scope.

SD Handgunner


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

On scopes, the best and I mean the best that I have is also one of the cheapest scopes that I have. It is no longer made, but the Tasco custom shop scope 2-8 30mm is the best scope for lower powered pistol round that I have found. Now on the used market they are getting $150-200 for them, but still the best that I have. I also have top end Nicon, burris, leopold, and bushnell. For moderate recoil, the bushnell 2-6 does very well for $150.00, The TC scopes are ok, but lack have too narrow field of view. The weaver 2-8 falls into the same as the TC. For stout as hell high recoil, the leopols 2X is the one to go with.


----------



## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

um, yea............that pistol has a bipod.


----------

