# Foiles indicted on 23 federal charges



## zettler

WASHINGTON -A federal grand jury in Springfield, Ill., returned a 23-count felony indictment today charging Jeffrey B. Foiles with conspiracy, wildlife trafficking, and making false writings in connection with the illegal sale of guided waterfowl hunts, the Department of Justice announced today. The indictment charges Foiles, 53, of Pleasant Hill, Ill., with conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act and the federal false writings statute, 12 substantive violations of the Lacey Act, and ten counts of making false writings in a matter within the jurisdiction of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.


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## blhunter3

Wow.


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## Kelly Hannan

holy sh**


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## bowhunter09

Its about time too!


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## Ron Gilmore

bowhunter09 said:


> Its about time too!


Yup!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## KurtR

Has been pullin stuff for awhile and not getting caught what it is the back ground story on this? If this is true hope he enjoys running a camera and just calling.


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## GSPMIKE

Pice of his calls just moved....

You think up or down?

Never know these days


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## duckjunky

From what read in an article that was posted on the fuge one of his camera guys was pretty disgusted with the over bagging on a goose hunt that he turned the camera off and Foiles ordered him to turn it back on. I think his call prices will go down.


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## southdakbearfan

I think this has been in the works for a long time, just a slow court system. I know I read about this several years ago, between overbagging, crossing state lines, floating a 4th in a benelli on video, etc. If I remember correctly the stink of it at the time was besides some pretty minor stuff, he was always getting those that worked for him/with him to either do this stuff or take the fall, but that is all heresay too.

The guys over on the avery board defended him pretty ferociously when this first came up back then.


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## Recurvenator

Those guys on the gayvery board are just a bunch of wannabes.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Here's the whole indictment (25 pages of it, but all info on charges are noted):

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/Indictment.pdf


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## duckp

If true,hopefully he serves time and never hunts again.
Fascinating reading.Appears he had enuf Benelli's for a small war.They are seeking forfeiture on about 15.


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## NDMALLARD

All of it is bad, but shooting banded geese with a BB gun in Colorado after luring them near you with bread?!?!? Just to collect their bands and collars...Come on that is just crazy! What a greedy loser. If this is true, he should never hunt again.


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## teamflightstoppersND

Karma??????


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## southdakbearfan

Wow, after reading the charges, this was in the works for quite some time.

Karma is a *****, if true, I hope he rots and looses it all.


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## Hunter_58346

Maybe this is why his new call is called "Strait Meat Violator"


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## 6162rk

how many of the others fall in this category? i think most all of them.


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## CoyoteBlitz

this is some what off subject but related lol. does anyone here watch Wild Justice?


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## greatwhitehunter3

CoyoteBlitz said:


> this is some what off subject but related lol. does anyone here watch Wild Justice?


Yes, I love that show!


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## Duckslayer100

What a complete scumbag. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't read it myself:



> 24. In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES and T.M., B.R., and J.M. drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars where at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands or neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter.


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## dakotashooter2

That is one of the inherent problems with such businesses. once a standard is set it is very difficult to maintain it without breaking the rules. We all know hunting is hit and miss. To be as consistent as some of these guys are goes beyond being good.


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## rooster700

Going to a park and luring leg and neck banded geese with bread and then shooting them with a pellet gun so he can collect the bands for his lanyard! What the he-- is the matter with this guy? He belongs in jail! I hope he loses everything he has. What an idiot! :sniper:


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## MOB

rooster700 said:


> Going to a park and luring leg and neck banded geese with bread and then shooting them with a pellet gun so he can collect the bands for his lanyard! What the he-- is the matter with this guy? He belongs in jail! I hope he loses everything he has. What an idiot! :sniper:


What a POS!


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## deacon

If true Foiles if is a 
*LOSER* :******: :******: :******:


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## kingcanada

Another member here told me this was coming, last year. Considering how he shafted Tim Grounds, I am not surprised in the least. I won't share what Tim told me, but Jeff did him wrong.


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## H20-FowlHunter

So here is my question. Why/How the hell does someone get indited on 23 Federal charges that are mainly based on migratory waterfowl hunting and i still see this POS on facebook traveling around and still shooting birds? In my opinion when this r-tard was handed the inditement papers he should have had his hunting liscense over then and there.


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## Vinroy

Ok guys ill start by saying im not a fan of jeff foiles, although i do own a number of his calls ( simply because there a very well made call that sounds great and is easy to blow) but do any of you who are bad mouthing jeff foiles have any personal experience with him or know him personally to the point where it gives you a right to be so strongly against the guy? I dont know the guy im gunna go out on a limb and say most likely none of you guys talking so bad bout him do eather, im just sayin why are you so strongly against or so strongly dislike somebody you have A- Never met B- Never talked to, and C- other than maybe the things you hear on forums which im sure is bout 90% BS and just random internet gossip, you know nothing about him or his personality, so im not condoning anything that he may have done but i personally have no clue about what he is like as a person so i am most definitly not going to go around talkin about him like he is such a worthless PoS since i have never met him never talked to him and really in all reality know nothing about his personal life...... now if he did do these things it is without a doubt wrong and stupid on top of it all but..... unless you have personally seen him do it why stand so strongly against the guy?


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## beard

Vinroy said:


> Ok guys ill start by saying im not a fan of jeff foiles, although i do own a number of his calls ( simply because there a very well made call that sounds great and is easy to blow) but do any of you who are bad mouthing jeff foiles have any personal experience with him or know him personally to the point where it gives you a right to be so strongly against the guy? I dont know the guy im gunna go out on a limb and say most likely none of you guys talking so bad bout him do eather, im just sayin why are you so strongly against or so strongly dislike somebody you have A- Never met B- Never talked to, and C- other than maybe the things you hear on forums which im sure is bout 90% BS and just random internet gossip, you know nothing about him or his personality, so im not condoning anything that he may have done but i personally have no clue about what he is like as a person so i am most definitly not going to go around talkin about him like he is such a worthless PoS since i have never met him never talked to him and really in all reality know nothing about his personal life...... now if he did do these things it is without a doubt wrong and stupid on top of it all but..... unless you have personally seen him do it why stand so strongly against the guy?


Thanks for clarifying that you do not know the guy. A and B would are the same thing BTW :bop: and we are talking about his commercial life..


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## H20-FowlHunter

Vinroy said:


> Ok guys ill start by saying im not a fan of jeff foiles, although i do own a number of his calls ( simply because there a very well made call that sounds great and is easy to blow) but do any of you who are bad mouthing jeff foiles have any personal experience with him or know him personally to the point where it gives you a right to be so strongly against the guy? I dont know the guy im gunna go out on a limb and say most likely none of you guys talking so bad bout him do eather, im just sayin why are you so strongly against or so strongly dislike somebody you have A- Never met B- Never talked to, and C- other than maybe the things you hear on forums which im sure is bout 90% BS and just random internet gossip, you know nothing about him or his personality, so im not condoning anything that he may have done but i personally have no clue about what he is like as a person so i am most definitly not going to go around talkin about him like he is such a worthless PoS since i have never met him never talked to him and really in all reality know nothing about his personal life...... now if he did do these things it is without a doubt wrong and stupid on top of it all but..... unless you have personally seen him do it why stand so strongly against the guy?


Well first we may all not know him personally but unlike most other acusations on this forum where the facts come from hearsay and are mostly BS the facts against Foiles were sold in all of his hunting videos. I recall in one of his latest videos where he hunted the river and said "going to be a quick hunt for our 14 birds" then goes on to show him shooting 23+ birds on camera then later at the end of the hunt it pans to a picture of EIGHT ****ing birds and he says on camera that is all they got for the day!!! If someone like Foiles wants to prop himself on a pedistal above everyone else in the waterfowl hunting community then he should also be able to take the criticism when it comes. And since he wanted to showcase his hunting styles on camera to the whole world, which some people (say maybe PETA or all those animal loving freaks) may see, people could get the wrong idea about hunters and our ethics. I think every hunter has a right to be ****** as hell at this selfish bastard for what he has done to the hunting community!!!


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## MOB

Duckslayer100 said:


> What a complete scumbag. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't read it myself:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24. In or about the Fall of 2005, FOILES and T.M., B.R., and J.M. drove to a city park in Loveland, Colorado, after learning that numerous Canada geese with leg bands and neck collars where at the park. FOILES used bread to entice banded geese near his vehicle, shot the geese with a pellet gun, retrieved the geese, and removed their leg bands or neck collars. FOILES called this method of collecting goose bands "parking," and subsequently used the collected leg bands to decorate his duck and goose call lanyard, which he wore prominently on his commercial hunting videos to advertise his skill and experience as a migratory waterfowl hunter.
Click to expand...




Vinroy said:


> Ok guys ill start by saying im not a fan of jeff foiles, although i do own a number of his calls ( simply because there a very well made call that sounds great and is easy to blow) but do any of you who are bad mouthing jeff foiles have any personal experience with him or know him personally to the point where it gives you a right to be so strongly against the guy? I dont know the guy im gunna go out on a limb and say most likely none of you guys talking so bad bout him do eather, im just sayin why are you so strongly against or so strongly dislike somebody you have A- Never met B- Never talked to, and C- other than maybe the things you hear on forums which im sure is bout 90% BS and just random internet gossip, you know nothing about him or his personality, so im not condoning anything that he may have done but i personally have no clue about what he is like as a person so i am most definitly not going to go around talkin about him like he is such a worthless PoS since i have never met him never talked to him and really in all reality know nothing about his personal life...... now if he did do these things it is without a doubt wrong and stupid on top of it all but..... unless you have personally seen him do it why stand so strongly against the guy?


Vinroy, Anybody who would shoot geese in a park with a pellet gun for their leg bands is a POS, whether I know them or not!


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## Csquared

Does anyone know how many fed convictions it takes to get time? Wondering if "straight meat" may take on a totally new meaning to Mr. Foiles?


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## Snowgooser

A lawyer client of mine from Nebraska and I were discussing this whole thing and the conversation turned to jail time. In his opinion it could go either way. He feels that Foiles will get off with a monster fine. He also said Foiles will likely lose hunting privileges for 10 years as well as owning a gun and everything involved with hunting. This is just his opinion. Of course we would like to see him in the can for a considerable amount of time. Again this is just opinion and speculation.


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## blhunter3

Csquared said:


> Wondering if "straight meat" may take on a totally new meaning to Mr. Foiles?


 :withstupid:


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## teamflightstoppersND

Foiles is the man! Just watched Falling Skies 5 and now he may be a little weird but entertaining as hell!


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## if it flies it dies1

HE BLOWS STRAIGHT MEAT LOL LOL LOL


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## webbedfoot67

he shot geese from a park lured them close and then shot the ones with bands how could he do that the guy is a joke and yeah guy who said he just watched strait meat 5 you must be alittle touched like you said he is,i own my own guide service and a new line of calls my company is small and only wish it could be what he had yes i said what he had but i would never do what he has done to waterfowl hunting.and i here he stoled his own equipment at game fair in mn. what a guy!i know alot of people who burned thier calls and people from game fair are glad to see him go. can you believe he told his clients to keep shooting even after they had thier limits just to get footage and then be dumb enuogh to use it thats mr. fioles and then while being filmed actually shoot 4 shots and have the balls to say he had another schell in his hand. mr. fioles you are a discrase to waterfowl hunting and hope you get what you deserve.


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## teamflightstoppersND

is shooting 4 shells a crime? you can reload a shell after you shoot one. Watch his hands and you can see how its done. just because he shoots 4 shots doesnt mean he did it illegally.


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## templey_41

webbedfoot67 said:


> i here he stoled his own equipment at game fair in mn. .


where did you HEAR this? This is news to me.


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## the professor

webbedfoot67 said:


> he shot geese from a park lured them close and then shot the ones with bands how could he do that the guy is a joke and yeah guy who said he just watched strait meat 5 you must be alittle touched like you said he is,i own my own guide service and a new line of calls my company is small and only wish it could be what he had yes i said what he had but i would never do what he has done to waterfowl hunting.and i here he stoled his own equipment at game fair in mn. what a guy!i know alot of people who burned thier calls and people from game fair are glad to see him go. can you believe he told his clients to keep shooting even after they had thier limits just to get footage and then be dumb enuogh to use it thats mr. fioles and then while being filmed actually shoot 4 shots and have the balls to say he had another schell in his hand. mr. fioles you are a discrase to waterfowl hunting and hope you get what you deserve.


You lost me after the first 89 word sentence.


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## webbedfoot67

im not saying its illegal im saying after he gets caught shooting the fourth shot he says i had another schell in my hand. after all he has been charged with i have a hard time believing he had the schell in his hand.as an outfitter cant even fathem the dumb moves he makes with a great buisiness he had why would you take risks like that just doesnt make sense to me!maybe its just me. sorry to all you die hard fioles guys but after he screwed tim grounds who taught me all i know in goose hunting and would give you the shirt from his back,and gave 2 calls to our junior calling contest no questions asked i didnt even have to ask him.jeff fioles is and will never be recognized as a waterfowl expert in my book!


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## liljoe

webbedfoot67 said:


> .jeff fioles is and will never be recognized as a waterfowl expert in my book!


Disagree with expert - it fits him perfectly. "Ex" is a thing of the past and "pert" is a drip under pressure.


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## shooteminthelips

Guys has established him self with one of the more successful call lines in the world. Also has done well in contests and hammers the birds. Now I am not really a Jeff Foiles supporter, however I think that he would be considered a expert. Insert poaching joke here where you need too. The guy can call birds and probably has killed more birds then anyone on this board by far. So as far as him being a expert waterfowler, I think he has earned atleast being considered a expert in the waterfowl hunting industry.


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## 2boysnbusy

I really hope all of his corporate sponsors look back at how they trumped this dirtbag up. Haven''t seen any statements condemning him?

I hope every kid that ever got his autograph, or looked up to him has a real dose of reality.

The Fed's need to make him go away for a long, long time. Hope he is never able to hunt again and loses everything to the USFWS and a big auction.

The industry "pro-types", prosftaffers and sponsors should lay down by their dishes and lick their wounds.

Foiles and ted Nugent are of the same cloth. Both are violators whose ego's will prove to be their downfall.

I'm sickened by outdoor TV and the commercialization of hunting.


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## Csquared

OUCH! You badmouthed Ferocious Theodocious! DANG! What did he do...forget to sign his tag, and had a deer with a food attractant in it that not even a risen Johnny Cochran could prove the deer got from Nugent?

Hardly the same thing as shooting banded geese in the park :wink:


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## 2boysnbusy

Well, Terrible Ted shot a black bear in the U.P that was a guy's pet. Ted paid him big bucks, but the guy spilled the beans.

In another matter, Check out "Spirit of the WIld" last season where Ted goes bear hunting in Ontario. He starts by saying how crazy it is that you can't carry a gun as a backup while bear hunting. He makes some typical Tedism analogy.

Well, cut to the kill when Winne the Pooh comes in to the honey pot and Ted let's the arrow fly. There's an unmistakable gunshot and you see dirt fly in the background. I had this episode on the DVR and watched time and time again...Kind of like Kevin Costner in JFK with the Sepruder film. Boys, somebody in Uncle Ted's camp fired a shot from the Grassy knoll. Check it out for yourselves.

Baiting in CA, not signing his tag, and allegedly using a gun in a Canada bear hunt....Ted and all the outdoor hosts need to be above reproach.


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## Csquared

> Ted and all the outdoor hosts need to be above reproach.


I don't know about the rest, but I certainly agree with your last statement. But love him or hate him, he's still one of the best of the high visibility spokespersons for our sport and the 2nd amendment, which is why I agree with your statement above. But the story went away very fast...which by itself should illustrate how minor his blunders have been. :wink:


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## farmerj

so this guy gets drug through the mud.

Yet sports figures (football, basketball, baseball) still get glorified.

Only in America.


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## Csquared

> Yet sports figures (football, basketball, baseball) still get glorified.
> 
> Only in America.


Only in America...AND the rest of the world if you add soccer to your list 

Actually, the irony is the thing here that most separates America from the rest of the world is the fact a middle class guy can make a living hunting in front of a camera. :wink:


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## farmerj

I don't think "middle class" would really have such a property as this....

http://www.agrirecland.com/2010/07/foil ... inois.html


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## Csquared

How much of it is his? I believe there is (or was) big St. Louis money in it, and he has at least one money partner currently. I would imagine 18 calling titles would get you some chances to suround yourself with wealthy people :wink:

I was under the impression, maybe wrongly, that he is a self-made man and wasn't born with a silver spoon hunting on his family's estate, but maybe you're right.

So, HECK! If he's rich too, all the more reason to crucify him...right?


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## farmerj

kind of my point.

Why crucify this guy with all the crap that the pro-ball players pull. Drugs, gambling, violence etc....


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## zettler

Foiles pleads not guilty today and......as he left the courtroom, he was served with a summons to appear in court in Edmonton, Alberta, on April 5, the same day his trial is scheduled to start in Springfield. Details of the summons were not immediately available.

http://www.sj-r.com/breaking/x11456...ter-pleads-not-guilty-to-waterfowl-violations


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## 2boysnbusy

Why crucify him when pro-athletes get off with so much? Because nobody is trying to shut down football are they? We have a real public image problem with hunting, and it's under attack. WIldlife belong to US, not Foiles and not the king. We have rules. If we don't sanction ourselves and excuse this type of behavior because "pro athletes do worse" - we're a prety sorry lot.

Michael Irvin puts coke up his nose or Jerry Rice get's caught with a hooker - OK....That's big brother saying what's good or not good to protect us. They broke a law designed to protect people from themselves. Bag limits, seasons, etc...? That's what's needed to protect and manage the resource. Those are the rules and they apply to everyone.

Hunting isn't a game and I resent that it's made into a business.Foiles is a greedy profiteer who exploited the resource, showed no respect for it all the time claiming to be the Big Kahuna. Statements like "When you're in Canada you have to watch the possession limit - so you have to find a place to get rid of your birds". should be a flag to all of us. Wanton waste.

Industry types feel that slasher guitar music, skull cap wearing angry facepainted dickheads who portray the need to "Defend this house" and "Get you some" represent hunters? Look at all of the outdoor ads from bows to Black Cloud. Dig up a field and stream from 20 years ago and look at ad content. You'll see a different theme.

I think he should be fined the max for every bird they can show "Over the Limit". He should be made to eat a duck a day for the rest of his life. He should lose all of his gear and his ability to purchase hunting and fishing licenses in every state.


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## farmerj

And I am saying they both deserve to live off Bread and water for the next 20 years in prison staring at grey blank walls trying to figure out how to make amends to society.


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## southdakbearfan

farmerj said:


> kind of my point.
> 
> Why crucify this guy with all the crap that the pro-ball players pull. Drugs, gambling, violence etc....


Just an observation, but that really doesn't sound like you were saying foiles should be in prison, it sounds like you think he should get off like the pro ball players.

Do the crime, do the time, period.


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## farmerj

you are reading it backwards then.

This guy is getting drugg through the mud because of what he did.... And rightly so.

Yet society will turn a blind eye to a pro-ball player.

Classy.

ETA

If you are a celebrity, elected official or "sports star".

Any crime you commit automatically results in a doubling of the sentence, no questions or appeals about it.

People see you as a hero, mentor or as an example and feel that they should have the same privileges. Set a bad example for society, you are really making a significant impact.


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## waterfowl wingnut

farmerj said:


> Do the crime, do the time, period.


Agreed 100%. Should pay max punitive damages so a good example is set. How many fathers are saying to their kids right now "Here is what happens if you don't hunt ethically and respect the resource..."


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## farmerj

that was sodakbear that made that comment, not mine.


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## southdakbearfan

farmerj said:


> you are reading it backwards then.
> 
> This guy is getting drugg through the mud because of what he did.... And rightly so.
> 
> Yet society will turn a blind eye to a pro-ball player.
> 
> Classy.
> 
> ETA
> 
> If you are a celebrity, elected official or "sports star".
> 
> Any crime you commit automatically results in a doubling of the sentence, no questions or appeals about it.
> 
> People see you as a hero, mentor or as an example and feel that they should have the same privileges. Set a bad example for society, you are really making a significant impact.


I was just stating the way it read to me. I agree with what you are saying here.


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## Savage260

"If you are a celebrity, elected official or "sports star".
Any crime you commit automatically results in a doubling of the sentence, no questions or appeals about it."

I don't agree with this, people are people no matter what they do for a living. I would opt for the same penalty no matter who you are. This dirtball foiles should get nailed with every thing possible, and so should any other no name dirtball that does the same. No extra penalty for "famous" but no "break" for them either!!!

As for the post by vinroy, the facts speak for themselves. While he isn't a dirtball like a rapist/murderer/child molester/ect, he is a dirtball none the less. Any one who can get rich off the resource like that, then completely take a leak all over it and the rules that govern it is a dirtball! Doesn't matter how much of a "nice guy" he is.


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## Csquared

Good post, Savage, and I agree with you. If ONLY it would work that way! :wink:

Here's what I think we'll be shown once again with this thing. That being law enforcement LOVES money! That works in favor of the rich when their attys can make it complicated enough that the state might spend more than it would get back in fines, but works against them in cases like this. If I did the same thing the state would be forced to look at jail time as my punishment because I don't have any wealth to take large fines from...and jail time COSTS money. But Foiles has property, and I assume equity and cash, so I suspect the feds mouths are watering at the thought of how much they can squeeze out of him. I know a guy who had a brush with the feds, and one of the first things they did was research his net worth and verify his portion of all jointly owned property...moot info if we were all to be treated the same :wink:

Look at drunk driving...something I'm sure you have WAY TOO MUCH experience with (but not as the driver  ). In my state, at least, it seems the state loses interest when the perp runs out of money. They could virtually STOP drunk driving with jail time, but like I said, that costs money, so they instead use the law to generate revenue, and the ones with money continue to be punished at a different rate than the ones who don't even buy auto insurance.

Sounds a bit like the current political climate, huh? :beer:


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## diver_sniper

farmerj said:


> Yet society will turn a blind eye to a pro-ball player.


I don't think Foiles poaching and Mike Vick helping with dog fights are quite the same thing. Foiles violation was directly linked to the sport that we know him for. He slapped us and our sport directly in the face with his poaching. Mike Vick's dog fighting stuff had nothing to do with football, so people forget about it. If Mike Vick had been caught intentionally throwing a game or something like that, I doubt any team would want him even if the NFL did allow him to play.

Now imagine that instead of poaching Foiles had gotten a hand full of DUIs and a domestic abuse charge or something like that. Those things are probably worse than poaching ducks, but because they aren't linked to something that we care about, we wouldn't be that mad about it and his place in the waterfowling world probably wouldn't change a bit.

I'm not saying that either guy is more or less guilty, and I agree, if you commit a crime you should pay the consequences. Our society is far too quick to forgive higher ranking people. Just another part of sociology that doesn't work the way that it should because people are dumb.


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## Savage260

> Good post, Savage, and I agree with you. If ONLY it would work that way!
> 
> Here's what I think we'll be shown once again with this thing. That being law enforcement LOVES money! That works in favor of the rich when their attys can make it complicated enough that the state might spend more than it would get back in fines, but works against them in cases like this. If I did the same thing the state would be forced to look at jail time as my punishment because I don't have any wealth to take large fines from...and jail time COSTS money. But Foiles has property, and I assume equity and cash, so I suspect the feds mouths are watering at the thought of how much they can squeeze out of him. I know a guy who had a brush with the feds, and one of the first things they did was research his net worth and verify his portion of all jointly owned property...moot info if we were all to be treated the same
> 
> Look at drunk driving...something I'm sure you have WAY TOO MUCH experience with (but not as the driver ). In my state, at least, it seems the state loses interest when the perp runs out of money. They could virtually STOP drunk driving with jail time, but like I said, that costs money, so they instead use the law to generate revenue, and the ones with money continue to be punished at a different rate than the ones who don't even buy auto insurance.


Please don't spread rumors!!! GOVERNMENTS AND COURTS set fines, bonds and fees, NOT LE. In many cases LE doesn't see much if ANY of the money collected!

Of course the COURTS(not LE) will go after assets if possible. Try colleting a $35000(or $1000 for that matter) fine from a guy who barely makes minimum wage(if he works at all, that is) and can't afford basic necessities and what not. It can't happen. If you have the assets they will take them, if not, jail time is about the only thing to do as a punishment. We as citizens have to pay tax dollars to keep an inmate in jail, so you have to chose what you want to do with your money! Do you want to pay to keep some one in jail, or would you rather see that money go to a new school or some thing like that? It isn't an ideal situation, but it is what we have available to us at the current time.

As far as the last paragraph, NOT A CHANCE!!! You can make a person sit for a year and fine them $100,000 and people will still try to get away with it. It is always the "other guy" that will get caught.


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## Csquared

Savage, I'm not sure, but I _think_ we agree 

I need to apologize for simplifying with my law enforcement term. I was lumping all involved in one group and I thought "court" would be even more misleading. But NO ONE should blame your level of LE for the mess.

Fines have a purpose, but if you only take them from people who have it, is it a REAL deterrent? Is fining defensive ends $10,000 for helmet-to-helmet hits going to stop it, or do you think suspensions would work better? As to jail costs, it's money well spent if the COURT ( :wink: ) talks out of only one side of it's mouth. Let's continue with DUI as an example. They say the law is there to keep the rest of us safe (not to generate revenue, as I contend), and we don't have to look long to find NUMEROUS examples of repeat offenders. So that tells me fines are not a deterrent, and based on above it seems we're in agreement on that. But what if people actually see people they know GO TO JAIL for a year for their second offense. Not lost driving priviledges, but actual in a cell, lose your job, wonder who your wife is with, can I borrow your soap jail time for one year. I could be wrong, but I think that would make a LOT of people reconsider another drink, or at least call a cab. And that will make us ALL safer......and how do you put a price tag on that?


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## Savage260

Csquared, I am 100% sure we do agree, I just wanted to clarify because there are too many that will see LE and "LOVES MONEY" and believe LE just levies fines for their own use. LE enforces laws, they don't make em! :wink:


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## Csquared

If they gave some of that money to you guys I might change my mind a bit on fines as punishment for crimes that endanger others. Because not only are you underpaid, I would imagine it's worse than a kick in the shins to arrest a dirtbag, only to have the state let him go with a slap. :eyeroll:

Thanks for the chat! :beer:


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## beard

Csquared said:


> If they gave some of that money to you guys I might change my mind a bit on fines as punishment for crimes that endanger others. Because not only are you underpaid, I would imagine it's worse than a kick in the shins to arrest a dirtbag, only to have the state let him go with a slap. :eyeroll:
> 
> Thanks for the chat! :beer:


Since this thread has already been hijacked,

That would only create even more crooked cops. Why would you assume he is underpaid?


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## Savage260

Even more? Are there a lot of crooked cops out there?

I think you are on to some thing beard, we should all(I mean every one) just work for free. That way there would be no greed, and no one would ever be crooked. Lawyer, Dr., Politician, Cop, Teacher, wouldn't matter, we would all be perfect!!! uke:


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## Csquared

I guess I did sort of hijack the thread, but we were done, Beard. Why don't you start another thread and we'll discuss your concerns in detail. But in short, I didn't assume Savage is underpaid...I KNOW he is. I have a general idea of what he's paid, and it would take a heluva lot more for me to deal with maggots all day. And I don't even want to think about dealing with a belligerent perp who would have the audacity to tell me I should be paid less to limit corruption. :wink:


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## zettler

*Foiles faces more charges in Canada*

Canadian authorities have leveled 12 charges against Jeff Foiles, a prominent waterfowl guide, call maker and producer of hunting videos from Pike County.

Foiles, best known for his "Fallin Skies" video series, pleaded not guilty last week to a 23-count indictment in federal court in Springfield.

The charges brought by the Canadian government are in addition to those he faces in the U.S. They involve alleged violations of Canadian h
unting and criminal laws that occurred from 2003 to 2007.

After his court appearance in Springfield on Thursday, Foiles received a summons to appear in Edmonton, Alberta on April 5, the same day his trial is scheduled to start in the United States.

Charges filed by Environment Canada include:

-- Causing unnecessary pain and suffering to a bird

-- Taking over the daily bag limits of geese and ducks

-- Continuing to hunt after reaching the daily bag limit

-- Hunting from a moving boat or boat under power

-- Failing to immediately retrieve a migratory game bird

-- Failing, after retrieving a bird, to immediately kill the bird.


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## duckp

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Ame ... story.html


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## DeltaBoy

A good read...

http://deltawaterfowl.blogspot.com/2011 ... -seat.html


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