# Boat Parade



## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Friday, on my way to Drayton from Fargo on I29, I saw a super mud motor rig (from MN of course) heading north that looked capable of destroying every roost marsh in the state. I also saw a more moderate mud slinging rig (again from MN) heading south. SD, brace yourself for an onslaught of ducks from ND. How has the boat traffic on I94 been?


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

We here in SD sure do like the annual calendar push of birds. :beer:


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

First cold front is heading through SK this week, too.

Should be a good weekend coming up!


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

jhegg said:


> Friday, on my way to Drayton from Fargo on I29, I saw a super mud motor rig (from MN of course) heading north that looked capable of destroying every roost marsh in the state. I also saw a more moderate mud slinging rig (again from MN) heading south. SD, brace yourself for an onslaught of ducks from ND. How has the boat traffic on I94 been?


Pretty sure I know the rig you were talking about and for the record they did very well, and plan on coming back in a few weeks :beer:


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Are all areas in North Dakota that are under water open to public? In sd I heard whoever owns the dirt under the water has control over trespassing above it (not the air)...

I can't imagine how 1000 mud boats with 4 hunters in each could ruin all the roosting areas in north Dakota but whatever... Sounds like to get to great hunting -apparently that is the best way.

Or is this how to get more ducks to make it to Arkansas? Get the North Dakota to ban out of staters so there are more ducks for the southern boys...

If you live in the flyway- you are going to get a lot of out of state plates... South Dakota did limited access licenses- but North Dakota has over the counter licenses correct? Petition to change it-but don't be butt-hurt when all the local business owners go against you! Because these terrible heathen Out-of-stater spends a LOT more money than you do at motels, bars, restaurants, exc than the locals do.

Another post where the phrase Private Property would cure this issue... But whatever!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

walleyecandy said:


> Are all areas in North Dakota that are under water open to public? In sd I heard whoever owns the dirt under the water has control over trespassing above it (not the air)...
> I can't remember how it's worded. Something to do with high water of meandered lakes. If you have a lakes that join over miles and with numerous landowners then it is open to public if I remember right.
> 
> I can't imagine how 1000 mud boats with 4 hunters in each could ruin all the roosting areas in north Dakota but whatever... Sounds like to get to great hunting -apparently that is the best way.
> ...


I wish non residents the best. I hope when they come they are successful and have a wonderful time. That said I do dislike residence who crap on fellow residence.

A final thought: over the year who do you think spends more money on motels, bars, and restuarants? I know my kids spend a mint running their kids around the state for hockey and other sports. One son and his wife have jobs that demand their time and are so busy they eat out more often than cooking at home. Oh, and when they find time they hunt. So I guess that makes them nasty resident hunters.

I guess that wasn't my final though. Those that dump on residence are usually making money of non residence. I think the cure for that is for us residence to treat the non residence so well that they don't need a guide. Perhaps next time you see some non residence take them under your wing and offer advise. Only when hunters stick together will the vultures look for a new roost.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I can't speak for the owners of the local businesses in your area but I'd think it would be a fair assumption that the local hotel, motel, bar, gas station, restaurants, repair shops, sporting goods store, exc- they not only need the money from the out of state hunters or tourists...they probably cater to them. It might not be all the money they make, but in the end; I would bet that the out of state money pays most, if not all, their overhead expenses for the year. And if they lost that money, they would be hurting. ...

I don't believe minnesota sees a tenth the ducks North/South Dakota does- in fact I am more than optimistic that it's closer to- for every duck in Minnesota, there are 500 that land in South Dakota. 
It has had to be at least 20 odd years ago that a true tornado of mallards were here. That year for 2 weeks -we had to have had the majority of the mallards that flew through-black clouds of them on a clear day were 10 miles long flying from two separate roosts.

Never since then... Went to the Webster area 10 odd years ago and saw where the flyway really was. Lots of divers too. We have more wood ducks but that's it.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I forgot the analogy of where I spend my money. ..
Both my semi and trailer came from South Dakota. ...along with my rebuild kit for the motor. 
My last pickup came from south Dakota (Ft Pierre to be specific). 
My ammo for duck hunting comes from Cabelas usually by the case Fasteel (it was cheaper)
The equivalent if not the majority of the road use tax I paid last year went to South Dakota. Along with a lot of fuel-usually from south Dakota. ..
I do buy a lot of amazon, ebay, gunbroker,exc equipment or ammo but- saying I buy locally isn't accurate at all. I'm not alone either.

If you see a good deal on the pickup you want....and it's in Minnesota, are you going to buy the same thing locally if the other pickup is $2500 cheaper in Minnesota? The car dealer wants your money, they are as loyal to you as they are to regular out of staters. Would you buy new locally if you could drive an hour or 3 to get it $7500 cheaper? I know I wouldn't! 
Good used neighbor's equipment is a different story-but that isn't what I'm comparing. ..


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Walleye and other out of staters (BTW... I'm an out of stater).... Most businesses in a small town make their living off of the locals. Even hotels, dinners, bars, etc. The locals are the ones who are eating breakfast 100 days a year in there...not 10 days. They are the ones who are their for every Friday night fish fry or Saturday prime rib special.... not just 4 days a year by a NR.... etc. The Residents are the ones who has family that comes into town for holidays and use hotels, motels, etc.

So to say NR make or break these business is wrong.

Now for the Residents of these small towns..... The NR's who come in do help these businesses as well. They help make of up for slower times of the year. They help the people who own the business go from making $20,000 a year to $30,000 a year (just an example don't know the real numbers). The NR influx of money helps pay for upgrades in the establishments, also to help keep other costs low, etc. I mean if the months worth of NR money pays for the whole heating bill in the winter. That is a huge help for any business.

Now lets look at license sales. NR license fees are about $100.... All that money goes into the G&F funding.... that goes to a lot of the new projects you see at boat ramps, fish cleaning stations, banding studies, habitat (PLOTS) (State Lands), etc.

Just an example.... One NR license for Waterfowl is $100 + $20 for general habitat = $120. A Resident is $10 for small game + $20 for the habitat = $30. So it takes 4 residents to equal revenue going into Game and Fish budget as 1 NR.

Now again I am not complaining about pricing or anything like that. I am not complaining about length of licenses, restrictions, etc.

I am just showing you that NR money is playing a big role for Game and Fish projects and funding. So a lot of the stocking, boat landings getting built, fish cleaning stations, habitat, banding studies, etc that all get paid for by the Game and Fish.... a good portion is coming from NR license sales. Good, bad, or indifferent. That is what is happening.

So like I said in the beginning..... Residents are more important to the local economy than any NR.

Also NR's.... don't go visiting places thinking your money is what is keeping doors open and towns alive. It isn't. Go to these places and just enjoy being on vacation and away from work. Enjoy being outdoors, be respectful of everyone, hunting isn't about kill, kill, kill. It is about just being out there and doing. Also Check the attitudes at the border and enjoy yourself and the time away from your daily grind. :bop:


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## 9manfan (Oct 22, 2008)

walleyecandy said:


> It has had to be at least 20 odd years ago that a true tornado of mallards were here. That year for 2 weeks -we had to have had the majority of the mallards that flew through-black clouds of them on a clear day were 10 miles long flying from two separate roosts.


I remember that time, everywhere you looked there were flocks of ducks working fields, I remember it being about a weeks time and this all happened after numerous days of strong NW winds......


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

9manfan, wasn't that amazing to see 100s of thousands of ducks pour out of the roosts?!! Those ducks looked like locusts coming in for miles. Myself and 3 buddies thought we were the only ones hunting the fields- never heard another shot.

I disagree with the assumption that anyone eats 100 meals a year outside of their house- and last year I drove 85,000 miles in a truck. I maybe -MAYBE ate 100 meals away from my place.

The locals do not support the majority of hotel/motels, no way-no how. Maybe 50% total gross revenue MAYBE comes from local residents support the local café or small diners-but 75% of the business revenue in larger chain restaurants is coming from passers-by... That's what they are designed to do.

Take the Webster SD area- locals are not supporting the hunting/fishing/recreational areas there. Or at least not to the extent that the NR are.

The reason we aren't agreeing is because we aren't comparing apples to apples- you are looking at some town of 500 people off the beaten path, I'm pointing to main intersection, high traffic areas where the main money passes through. Expendable money on vacations gets spent. The locals aren't savings money to go stay in a motel 10 miles away, eating at local restaurants, and buying souvenirs- they are going somewhere else (like minnesota) doing that... That's why minnesota thrives on tourism! Those minnesota resorts and hotel/motels are in trouble when tourists quit coming....

In the age of the Internet -we can type in exactly what we are looking for and drive to it. Buy it. And drive home. Farmers shop around -I know it because I have delivered minnesota equipment to North and South Dakota. ...if the farmer's local dealer for tractors or vehicles can't compete- they aren't going to be open long.

Nonresidents spend a lot of money- if you deny that, you are wearing blinders. Period. Those local businesses NEED the tourists/vacationers/hunter & fisherman money to survive.

How big would Cabelas (or BassPro) be if only locals shopped there? Locals spend some money there-no doubt. But, definitely not most.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

My 'analogy' goes right out the window when a town grows over 10,000 people -THEN the locals spend as much as the non-residents.

Aberdeen, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Twin Cities. ..for example. ..


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I grew up in a town of 350 people. The non resident hunters contributed very little in that town.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Google :
South Dakota nonresident hunting revenue

Look up sd gfp revenue per county...totals will be on the bottom. ...then try to tell me residents contributed just as much money....

I would link it but nodak and droid technology don't play well.

After looking that up-figure how much in taxes $150 million dollars generates....telling me that NR hunters don't contribute anything -bull!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I didn't say they didn't contribute. They have less than one percent impact in my home town. As I grew up they had zero impact. They have some now. A classmate of mine owned the grocery store. He had been a good friend in school. Every time I bought groceries he botched about resident hunters buying at home instead of from him. Guess what I don't stop there any more. One has to know when to keep their mouth shut.


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

walleyecandy said:


> Take the Webster SD area- locals are not supporting the hunting/fishing/recreational areas there. Or at least not to the extent that the NR are.
> 
> Nonresidents spend a lot of money- if you deny that, you are wearing blinders. Period. Those local businesses NEED the tourists/vacationers/hunter & fisherman money to survive.


If you set your business plan up to "need" non resident money, you are destined to fail in SD.

I used to drive through webster 2-4 times per week, and even during the peak of ice fishing season or peak of duck season, there is 5 SD plates to every 1 non resident plate at the gas stations, cafes, bars, bait shops, etc. There are just as many SD guys if not more at those hotels during hunting and fishing seasons. Not to mention all of the residents making day trips.
Look at the economic information for Day County SD, hunting and fishing dollars are minuscule when it comes to economic impact vs Ag dollars. These small towns won't live an die by non resident spending, they will live and die with the price of corn.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Walleye.....

Now you are telling me that the local guys don't eat out 100 times a year....I am talking breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Yes people do eat out about that many times a year. If you have ever worked in food services you will notice this. You have your families, groups, etc. That meet every sunday for breakfast or every weds for lunch, etc. You can set your watch by the time they will roll in. And if they don't come in at those times you are calling their homes to see if they are ok. Then you also have those same people hitting up a fish fry, steak fry, certain lunch specials, breakfast, etc. You would be surprised at this... I know I was when I was a server.

Walleye you are also forgetting that many people come back to their small towns in the fall to hunt and fish. What I mean is that you will see people from Fargo, Bismark, etc come to the small town in ND to hunt and fish for a week or two. They go hunt with friends and family. Yet they stay in hotels.

Again I am a NR and I am not saying NR money doesn't help. But to say NR keeps towns alive or business's afloat. You are 100% wrong. It is the people everyday who go into a place to eat, buy gas, buy groceries, who bring family and friends into town and they stay at hotels, etc.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

I've hunted in central North Dakota for ducks and deer since 2002. I've been a full-time ND resident since 2006.

This town is what I would consider a small/medium town. Since we've been going there, I've seen the gas stations drop to two, the cafes drop from 3 to 1, and yet the little hotel there is booked a YEAR in advance during the hunting season.

We visited the cafe for breakfast two years ago, as is our custom, and talked to the wait staff asking why nobody can seem to keep an eatery open in the town with all the hunters that come through.

"Well they never eat here," the gal said. "They must bring groceries from home or something."

Of all the orange-clad folks that were there, all but us were locals. THEY are the ones keeping small-town ND alive. Not some holier-than-though NRs that come once a year and spend little to nothing unless they forgot to mark it off their grocery lis and have to make a last-minute run.

So while NRs do make a financial impact to the state, they're doing it through license fees. I know my buddies from the cities who come up twice a fall rarely make it to the local watering hole unless they're desperate to get out of their shack for a night. All beer, booze and food is purchased at home and trucked up with everything else.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm not implying being 'holier-than-tho' at all.

But I will eat my hat if in Webster SD at that baitshop by the only stop light in town -which is the hub of fishing/hunting in the area...if you sat in the parking lot all day; you would see way more out-of-stater's money being spent than locals.

Guides are also making nearly all their money from Out-of-staters.

No doubt that locals contribute money to the local businesses. ...but, without the profit from tourism, hunting, and fishing revenue -you would see a lot of businesses shutting down. If you have $100k in expenses a year and the locals spend $99k there and NRs spend $45k there.... What happens when the NRs quit spending?

The NRs spend approximately 4x as much to hunt/fish out of state. Who benefits most from that $? The locals... If you want to assume that your $ is supporting everything their-you are dreaming big dreams!

Why would you guess the duck hunters aren't at the café at sunup? Because they are doing what they came to do at dawn- hunting. They probably do eat a lot of store bought sandwiches -but I have been to the Dakotas hunting and we spend $100s at the bar or wherever we eat, we tip well, and we never start problems! Except once when I had to pay to fix a sign we 'accidentally' broke during what we thought was a photo opportunity -the owner laughed so...no harm done.

And how did this turn into a farmer/corn revenue conversation? In all the time I've wasted on this site- never once have I heard anyone imply that farmers help... Never... Ok, how much of the farmer's local tax dollars are going to improving landings, stocking fish, development of habit, and/or paying the dnr's salary- compared to hunting license revenue? I'm asking -I don't know the Dakota's percentage.

Now, since I'm 'dead wrong' about who pays what in percentages toward which fund- shows me anything that proves I'm wrong. Show me any study that shows numbers that say NR's licencing dollars aren't improving the local's opportunities. Or that it would 'save' locals money if there were no out-of-staters coming in...

Where did the $ come from that funded researcher's salaries to do studies? Some people on this forum were directly paid with out-of-state money- if you deny it, then explain which essential jobs would have been cut if the budget came up short? Came up short because there was zero out-of-state money to fund it...


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

If 16 people in the café spend $10 each and 4 nonresidents walk in and spend $10 each-gross revenue just went up roughly 25%...tips probably doubled.... Where is the argument coming from?....

You do realize that even at 1% more in revenue statewide -of $2 million dollars. ...that's a lot of jobs! Now, figure 10%....


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

walleyecandy said:


> If 16 people in the café spend $10 each and 4 nonresidents walk in and spend $10 each-gross revenue just went up roughly 25%...tips probably doubled.... Where is the argument coming from?....
> 
> You do realize that even at 1% more in revenue statewide -of $2 million dollars. ...that's a lot of jobs! Now, figure 10%....


Well good on you for dropping so much coin. I have a feeling you're in the minority.

For every one group of NRs that come in and empty their wallets, there are 9 other groups that stay in their hotel room and only eat/drink whatever they brought with.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Ok, where did that figure come from? Because I would assume then that for every 4 NRs that went to the local café and spent some money- 20 residents went home and ate dinner bought from a big name store...

I'm not picking a fight- or not trying to. .. I just don't see how it isn't obvious that in the last 10 years- that NRs didn't contribute an amazing amount of $ to the state/local economy.

But maybe I am wrong! Maybe the amount of nonresidents/out-of-staters is so low that it doesn't affect anything in the Dakotas. ...but, then who are all these 'roost busting road hunters'? They must be residents then... Then the residents are the ones who aren't contributing enough- I would assume that according to what I read, there would be no argument for banning NRs from buying licenses and quadrupling the current resident license fees....right?


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I do have a small issue with the theory of people who are supposedly eating 100 meals a year locally. ... Let's assume 2000 people live within 10 miles of 3 cafés. ...25% of them eat a $10 meal 100 times a year... I don't doubt that the equal percentile of nonresidents are 'loose' with that much money but....

500x $10=$5000 per day for 100 of 365 days... Any argument about $500,000? Divided by 3 cafés? $166,000+ per cafe per year average just from locals? Where is this area and when do you want me to build?

A waitress that was at minimum 'decent' at her job could expect to make $24k a year in tips alone...

Are my figures wrong-they could be. The IRS confirmed that I am terrible at math last year so....


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

One last comment -I apparently waited long enough to get loaded today finally. ...

I don't 'empty' my wallet at restaurants. ...A $25 steak, $15 drinks, and a $10 tip is not going to 'empty' my wallet. I have enough money to encourage good service and good food. My gun cost me 20x that...my 'practice' box of ammo cost near that meal's price-I'm getting old, hard to figure lead distance and speed some days...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Walleye....

It sounds like you are a businessman... but are you forgetting about other tangibles while doing business at a food service.... Your $10 meal might only equal out in $1 profit for the owner. Once you take out costs/expenses... food, water, heat, electric, gas, wages, rent/mortgages, cooling systems, system break downs, cleaning costs, taxes, etc. So your example of $166,000 per each café.... You have to pay servers, cooks, heat, gas, electric, water, supplies, etc. Don't forget licenses and the good old bank that needs its money as well. So that $166,000 a year probably only equals about $30K into the owners pocket. So then Like I said.... the extra income that comes into from the NR hunter/fishing community will help out to make them go from earning $30K to $40K.

Now with the argument about Revenue coming into by license sales and what not. YES... that money is making things better for the Residents. Like I mentioned in one of my posts. That argument like I showed it takes 4 residents buying a license to equal 1 NR purchasing the same license. So that extra revenue goes into the G & F funding. Now what they use that funding is many fold.... Wages, Boat Ramps, Fish Cleaning Stations, habitat, buying of lands, Parks, camp areas, etc. So NR license sales are a big part of the budget. That money goes towards things R use year round or more than any NR will ever use.

But when NR's come on to sites like this and start to say... WITH OUT MY MONEY THE TOWNS WILL DIE... are 100% incorrect. I am a NR and I cringe every time I hear someone say that. I get ******. Because it isn't the truth and makes NR look like idiots. It also ****** off people when they hear those comments in the taverns and restaurants. It is the "I'm better than you" attitude.

Also what Duckslayer said.... about how many bring in their own food and what not. I have witnessed it all the time when I travel and with the people I go on trips with. They bring everything under the sun with them. Then when I show up with not much they ask "what are you going to eat"..... I tell them the town has a grocery store and cafe'. I will be just fine. Again that isn't saying my money is "saving the town".... because it isn't. I am just a small business owner my self and I was brought up to spend money where you are staying goes along way to show appreciation. Plus I don't like to pack a bunch of crap to haul it 500 miles... then also haul it back when I don't use it.....LOL


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Walleye...

Now on to your "road hunting/roost busting".... I agree with you on that. I see more of that stuff happening with locals or ND plates. But I am not saying NR don't do that stuff as well. Also some of the NR stuff people are seeing is college kids doing it. But remember they are considered R by license law. Many of them are hunting with R kids as well. Again I am not point the finger. But don't assume all people are the same because of color of license plate and what not.

Here is a lil story I got...

I was fishing in ND and was at the cleaning station and a R came up and chewed my ***.... Cussing at me, yelling at me that I am taking all of the walleyes out of the lake. It is all NR fault for poor fishing or smaller fish. He was lucky I am a calm guy or it would have been ugly how bad he was going off. But I calmly stated to him.... I keep 15 walleyes during my 4 day stay ( I have two meals of 2-3 fish per meal and take home my limit of 10). Then I asked him how many walleyes does he keep per month. He grumbled some more swear words and tore out of the cleaning station. Again I am not saying anything bad of that the guy is a poacher because in ND there is no "freezer" limit on fish once they are at your home. But a R cant catch more than 5 walleyes per day but could have 1000 in their freezer. Now that is just an example. But again don't blame NR for everything.

Just like with ducks and geese.... Residents started to hunt them sept 24th. So it is coming up on a month worth of hunting.... and now a cold front moves in. So you will start to see less birds until the next migration comes in. Don't blame it on the MEA weekend coming up for MN/WI and all the NR's. Look at all the facts.... Hunting pressure for over a month (plus early goose season is helping to education and puts pressure on ducks), weather changes, etc. I am not saying that the MEA and more hunters coming over helps.... but it also isn't the cause for all the birds leaving.

And not to completely hi jack the thread.....

The "boat parade" is always a way for people to take a jab at NR and also to start the who NR vs R war on this site. Jhegg did exactly what he wanted to with this thread.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I didn't intend to make it sound like without MY money, the town would die... One drop in the tidal wave of tourism money wouldn't be noticed. But there is a tidal wave of out of state money coming in for duck hunting in the Dakotas.

Not a penny will come from me this year-I'm committed to Lake of the Woods for 2 if not 3 weeks before ice out. Maybe one long weekend to Webster with the snowmobile and portable. Guessing the license, local bar/cafe, gas station, and hotel will get at least $500 out of me before I get home...which is fine. Unless I get the attitude the local a$$ gave you at the cleaning shack! I live in Minnesota -we have walleye that ate catchable. We do not have 2 pound perch hardly anywhere though...

There are always going to be locals who claim that This Land Is My Land... We have that in Minnesota too- the morons that will do anything to screw with your hunt from across the fence. But there is a hunter harassment law that the local warden WILL nail them with.

I doubt that this 'argument' will happen in 20 years...the hunting will be more and more of a guided spectator sport very soon. I'm old enough to not hunt duck hardly at all-pheasants rarely-and 3 days of the 10 day deer season. ...I don't see the passion for hunting in the next generation's eyes.

Just my opinion!

But-if you guarantee me the $166k income in the 10 mile radius of the little town...I'd be on that like a fat kid on a cupcake!


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

walleyecandy said:


> I didn't intend to make it sound like without MY money, the town would die... One drop in the tidal wave of tourism money wouldn't be noticed. But there is a tidal wave of out of state money coming in for duck hunting in the Dakotas.


Feel free to limit non resident waterfowl spending to ND in terms of this conversation; SD limits non residents to around 4,500 so siginificantly less money is spent overall vs. ND non residents.

And to your mention of what I assume is Sportsman's Cove in Webster, I fished within 45 miles of webster 20-25 days last winter, stopping to buy bait 3/4 of those days. I could rattle off 35 residents I know that fished as much or more than I did/do in day/marshall county. Look at license sales as of october 3. 62,000 annual resident fishing licenses vs. 27,000 non resident annual licenses. 45,000 one day and 3 day non resident licenses. So twice as many non residents are only fishing 1-3 days vs making multiple trips. No where did I say non residents don't spend money in Webster, but when you look at their overall tourism economic statistics for Day county vs. Ag, Manufacturing, etc, tourism is 5% of total sales in Day county. This includes lodging, accounting for nearly half of the spending. How much of that lodging is booked by resident sportsmen? Resident contractors and workers booking rooms for business? Once you start looking at actual numbers, it becomes easy to see that the "non residents save these towns" arguement is flawed. Sure hunting and fishing has created a full time tourism industry for towns like webster, and it's definitely a non resident destination. but in SD, If a town like webster, known throughout the upper mid west and maybe nation wide for it's fishing, is only seeing 5% total sales attributed to tourism, how much percentage do you think a town like gackle or Kulm or Garden City, or Salem, or any other small town with 2 motels and a bar that really only act as staging areas waterfowl and upland hunters is actually receiving in tourism spending?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I do have a small issue with the theory of people who are supposedly eating 100 meals a year locally. .


Me too. My wife and I go out every Sunday with friends after church. We both eat out for our Tuesday noon Bible study. About 20 of us men meet at a local restaurant at 6:30am every Thursday for men's Bible study. Beyond that my wife and I go out once or twice a week. A very conservative estimate would be both of us four times a week for all 52 weeks. That's about 400 x 2 for 800 meals. If a non resident comes for 1p days and eats all three meals at a restaurant that's 3p meals. No comparison. When I travel to hunt I buy everything before I leave. 
If you throw lead or arrows your a brother, but the on resident importance to the economy doesn't come close to your thoughts walleye

As for other hunting g expenses:
Half the miles on a diesel pickup purchased in Jamestown.
Three fourths of the miles on a Toyota FJ Cruiser purchased in Jamestown.
All the hours on my Lund with 130 Honda purchased in Jamestown.
Half the hours camping in a 37 ft 5th wheel purchased in Jamestown.
The $6K for .you Koi last year all went for reloading components.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

How is agricultural revenue comparable to tourism?

That's like saying my semi truck/trailer delivering 45 tons of Argus Leaders is comparable to aunt betty's prius delivering xmas cards to the post office.

20 locals fishing 'full time' in Webster compared to 100 NRs is also not comparable. The guy who has a house he lives in on the lake doesn't spend as much as the tourists renting the resort cabin on the lake. 100 people who rent a cabin spend a pile of money.

Ag revenue has as close to nothing to do with duck hunting as photography has to do with daylight savings time.

I keep reading this repeating post of-residents pay just as much as NRs do...no, they don't. Look at revenue total and base them against activities specific to why they are there. The residents are using a lot of resources that NRs are contributing to but not utilizing.

NRs aren't farming, they aren't using boat accesses 50 days a year, exc exc exc...The locals are using the restaurant, the roads, the accesses, exc. The residents SHOULD be contributing more to local economy! The reason resident taxes are so low and licenses are cheap is because of NRs contributing millions of dollars into the economy to VISIT and leave.

The local businesses can survive just as easily without tourism as the locals can survive without Nonresidents. It can be done- but the Locals are going to pay more for a lot less! Why not enjoy the benefits you get from NRs revenue instead of trying to make it sound like you get nothing in return? The NRs aren't going to chase away all the migrating duck-they aren't staying anyways! It is seasonal- so are the NRs....


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

It really comes down to, if residents of the state think non residents aren't contributing enough -then shut the borders down to the nonresidents. South Dakota sort of did that for duck hunting already (sort of)... 5000 is not a huge number but-the majority aren't camping. Or eating cold meat sandwiches -some are I'm sure.

I'm going to assume that the local hotels that see more than half of those 5000 paying for a warm room and a shower are appreciative of the $50-150 a night rent... Those 5000 matter. Pretty safe bet that their money is warmly received.

I'm not accusing yet but... It's becoming more and more suspicious that maybe certain locals are the 'more holy than tho'... They aren't the authority figures, elected officials, or those getting called when/if complaints are made. I'm politely going to ask: Do the locals complaining or being defensive on here even own ground? Because you don't own public property or walk-in areas...someone from Florida has just as much right to occupy public property (gun or no gun). And locals definitely don't have more rights to privately owned farm ground-if the farmer says stay off, he doesn't care about where you live..

Which to me is funny because, in the Webster area- our out of state plates are more welcome than in state plates... I was told directly by multiple farmers that they don't want idiots from Watertown or Brookings around. ... Anyone see the connection there?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Which to me is funny because, in the Webster area- our out of state plates are more welcome than in state plates... I was told directly by multiple farmers that they don't want idiots from Watertown or Brookings around. ... Anyone see the connection there?


You see the same thing at Devils Lake. They were fighting to get non residents into the early goose season, because they said the geese were causing so much damage. Yet they posted and refused to let residents hunt if they didn't pay. The money is the answer. If your wallet is fat they like you, but it has to be an observable direct benefit. The farmer that charges you $100 a day per gun don't care about the motel, the pickup dealer, or the bar. He only cares that he sees cash in his hand. North Dakota has comparatively low pay jobs. It's why our youth leave this state. Until the oil boom anyway. So farmer Joe will dump on his neighbor in favor of the guy he doesn't know because the guy he doesn't know has green in his hand.

All that said I don't begrudge non residents. Like I said I like to give them information so they don't need an outfitter. Some of the only people trying to tell us how good the non residents are receive some direct benefit. That's why farmers and outfitters are so hot on non residents. Non residents by in large are nice people. Most that I have talked to I like. Not the ones who posted a friends land and tried to kick him and I both off. We left. Then we called the game warden. I don't hold that against other people from Minnesota simply because they were from Minnesota. One has to look at the individual not where his license plates originate.

Non residence have zero impact in my small home town. They hunt around the area and you see a few in the grocery store which went toes up. You see them stop at the gas station. However the percent of their economic impact is less than 1%. Still that one guide and half dozen farmers will try tell you how wonderful it is. One neighbor to my relatives tells me how much more polite they are. I guess hunters know how to kiss up. However, they were not there when his cows got out and we helped chase them in for three hours. They were not there when he was stuck in snow and we dug him out because he has a bad heart. They didn't visit him in the nursing home. They were not there mourning at his funeral. Poor old fool.

Edit: The local outfitter who is not licensed and tells people he only hunts on his own farm told the old guy they would pay him $100 per deer that they shot on his land. Actually they are related. I and a friend watched them take deer off that guys land, but they told him they didn't get any. This isn't the fault of the guys from Pennsylvania that were hunting there. This is the dishonesty of the outfitter. Don't tell me to report it, I did. Didn't hear anything.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

It's hard for me to believe a lot of what I read in these forums. ..seems political really. All I know is that the majority of buddies who fish or hunt here around me in Southern Minnesota go to either the Webster SD area or to Devils Lake area. I'm literally talking at minimum 90% have gone or minimum 50% go every year at least twice. To me, it's hard to believe that the locals are paying guides and renting rooms....I just don't think that is believable.

Even if it is 1%-which again, I believe that number in off season times, but in popular areas like Devils Lake or Webster...I'd bet during winter or from pheasant opener till freeze up; those hotels are clearing most of their profits. Without that time of year -I bet those same places would be hard pressed to survive.

Just my opinion-but, still!

Oh, I grew up in a state where you can't own water-you pay to participate. When I go to Lake of the Woods, I'm not any further up in the pecking order of importance than some hippie from California is. (I will however, outfish him)... The local guides up there charge PLENTY to show you spots to fish-and they make a lot of money doing it. Then the resorts take their share. And you have to eat something so.... When I drop $1000 in 5 nights/4 days, it's hard for me to swallow that that the resort who has 40 people doing the exact same thing at the same time -with them reserving the same trip next year before they leave -hard for me to swallow that the locals support that economy! Baudette for example estimated they were losing $100k per day because the lake wasn't safe to travel on in December...

I don't believe that locals can/should complain about a farmer charging people to hunt... Again, we fall into the old argument of this forum....you pay the state to hunt, why not the private land owner? You paid for all the equipment, licenses, and took vacation time-why not give the private land owner something? 
The reason people won't is the same reason I think it is ridiculous not to... Too cheap, chip on tho shoulder, entitled, two-faced, pick your favorite phrase. ... oke:

Either way, again -I don't care what you do locally, but keep in mind -I will offer the land owner something. Even free help. Something! And I will be the one hunting there. Because I went out of my way to offer- instead of just using. ..


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> And I will be the one hunting there


You're the reason North Dakota hunters hate non resident. Like I said North Dakota is one of the lowest states for wages. Not one in ten can afford to drop $1000 like you do for a week of fishing. You evidently have a higher wage than most North Dakota s allowing you to not only get on land, but keep a neighbor off. 
Devils Lake, and Mott are perhaps the only two towns that non residents make a large impact. Still the residents make a larger impact. I grew up eight miles from the lake. Now I live 100 miles from the lake and people who go fishing in summer half will be in a motel or campground, even myself. In winter nearly all of them will stay the night. 
I think your way of life in southern Minnesota is different than North Dakota. We still have farmers that let us hunt because they are neighborly. We help them often throughout the year because we genuinely like them, not to get something. Whatever the disease is in southern Minnesota and Texas, I hope it isn't contagious.

Edit: Right now Cramer has a bill up to turn over public land along the Missouri River. The landowners around Bismarck like the idea. Cruz had introduced a bill and it's now on the republican platform to turn over all federal public land to the states. That means they will also turn over the bill to manage it then brag about the money they saved the taxpayer. Different taxes, but we would still pay for it if the states kept it. They will not keep it. They are selling of state land by the millions of acres right now in Nevada, Utah, and especially New Mexico. The very greedy are pushing for it. Two reasons: one they want the land, and two, they don't want anyone else to have it. Good bye hunting public land, which means good bye hunting forever if your wallet isn't thick. Time to call Cramer today.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

So, it's a jealousy thing now that I found a job which keeps me away from home-or I get to work 18 hour days and sleep at home, shower, and go back to work? Just to have expendable money? Sounds like it time to cut back on your 100 meals a year away from home...

Sounds like we should refer to you as Cousin Eddy (national lampoons)....

That's the stupidest thing I've ever read- sounds a lot like welfare rats who sit at home on their lazy ***** complaining about how they don't want to work... Go get a cdl. Or go work on the oil fields. .. I'm taking zero excuses about not having enough money to hunt-you have 1000s of acres to hunt for free and you complain about some dirt you haven't ever hunted.

You are forgetting something very important about the local farmers -I'm not paying him! I'm offering help instead of just using them and pretending to care... The locals don't show any interest in anything that happens around there until hunting season is on or coming up -hunt what's left of the public land, along with the rest of the public who doesn't get it either.

The 'disease' in your area is obviously being lazy and entitled -that's exactly the reason that you aren't getting permission and sit on the sidelines whining. Apparently it's not at all different in North Dakota than it is here in Minnesota -the land owners are sick of the lazy locals.

Strange combination of lazy/jealous. .. It's not your ground. State ground isn't even your ground exclusively. ... But you think it is!

As for liking the landowners -you don't know who calls me, or who I call and talk to... You don't know anything except how to bore people off this forum. You wonder why people have better things to do.

It's pheasant opener and I'm wasting my time on Jaded Outdoors.... Over 70 hours working this week and I'm the lazy NR that is the problem! Haha riiiight!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> You don't know anything except how to bore people off this forum. You wonder why people have better things to do.


Like you I am not looking for a fight, just stating facts. North Dakota people are not lazy. Teachers salary in North Dakota is about half of Minnesota. As a matter of fact only Mississippi pays less. With an attitude like that walleyecandy the average North Dakota hunter will not be very welcoming. The next guy I run into from Minnesota I will still treat very well.

It's not jealousy walleye, and lets take my son for example. He has been fighting for his life for a year and a half. Spent six months in the hospital with a machine breathing for him for 66 days. Still in a wheel chair and on oxygen. He gets up at 4:00am for dialysis until 9:30, then he goes to work. Lucky he has an office job. He brings a portable oxygen machine with him so everything works out, but it's very tiring.

I don't think it's so much paying people to hunt that bothers non residents, but many pay to keep residents off. It has degraded hunting in North Dakota for the resident. We are here for 12 months of the year, yet some think North Dakota is their playground and they are entitled. I think many residents will be insulted by your post.

Simply because I will not agree with you and tell you what residents think is no reason to get personal walleye.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

And how exactly is it my fault that people choose a career that they can't make ends meet on that salary? Those are NOT the cards you are dealt...Those jobs are choices -and that's a fact.

If 'most' residents are disgusted by NRs...then go buy land (with the bank) and don't let NRs hunt. Otherwise, you can't make the decision for the landowners. And-by buying the license from the state, you pay to play on public property. .. I've never leased ground in the Dakotas -never will either. Because I don't need to -I have non exclusive permission for 1000s of acres of great ground.

Anyone that reads this and thinks you aren't jaded or trying to pick a fight- hasn't read many posts... There are way worse ones on here, but they have nothing better to do than complain.

I'm formally offering an open invitation to all NRs of minnesota to come hunt and fish- minnesota is a great state and we WANT you here. The parks are cheap to stay at-and everyone is friendly! The pheasant hunting needs some improvements but if you aren't specific on fish species -you will always catch enough to eat. We have deer, moose, bear, and lots of small game to hunt -and you are welcome here anytime! If you need advice, just ask. Occasionally a resident will get defensive but stay persistent- we are accommodating.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Free advice to NR of minnesota -the indians on the reservations are really entitled and can be really hard to get along with. But the fishing is worth the hassle- just don't camp there.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> If 'most' residents are disgusted by NRs...


I don't think most residents are disgusted by NRs. I think they are disgusted with those that think it's their right to change our way of life. As if they are more entitled than a resident.



> Anyone that reads this and thinks you aren't jaded or trying to pick a fight- hasn't read many posts... There are way worse ones on here, but they have nothing better to do than complain.


If they are residents they are entitled to complain about the seasons and numbers of non residents. It's our state. However, I think most residents treat non residents very well. I have had some stop in. I will give advise, but often send them away with a sack of apples or something too. I have really enjoyed the visits.

It would appear you have a bur under your saddle the past couple of days walleye.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Not at all, just not going to sit here getting nowhere AND have someone say I'm the reason the locals hate nonresidents. ...

Which is not even remotely true, except maybe for- the motel that takes my money under protest, the house keeping cleaners there that are probably insulted by the tip I leave in the room too, the farmers who call my number randomly even after hunting season which are probably just doing it because they are overly nice, the waitress at the café probably just throws away my tip, and nobody probably notices that the public parking lot is cleaner after I left than when I got there....deplorable I know!

I said specific instructions on how to look up actual SD DNR non residents revenue generated from hunting compared to residents. ..that was obviously part of the Clinton scandal and pure lies! Approximately 4x what residents contributed-to the tune of $100 million...but that isn't comparable to north dakota. Fine.

After a while, I assume you get sick of listening to facts and fall back on your original tunnel vision philosophical vision of North Dakota being self sufficient for hunting/fishing, not needing or wanting nonresidents... Seems strange to me that ND residents leave the state to hunt/fish expecting to use the other states system-but if an out of 'your' state's resident vocalized the same sentiment as is heard here, directed towards you in their state... Doubt that would make you feel welcome.

For anyone looking to make more money -get a commercial drivers license. You can drive all week listening to music and talking on the phone...then have time off to hunt/fish. And, you can afford to pay what may seem like a lot of money to enjoy your time off -but be prepared for ridicule, because even though you worked 30 hours of overtime the previous week...you can't spend that money on what you enjoy! Supposedly anyway. ...


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Not at all, just not going to sit here getting nowhere AND have someone say I'm the reason the locals hate nonresidents. ...


Not you specifically, but the guys that do what you say you do. If a fellow come in and pays a farmer X amount of dollars he isn't going to let the neighbor kid hunt. I look at hunting as an American tradition, not an exclusive club only for the rich.



> Approximately 4x what residents contributed-to the tune of $100 million...


 I think South Dakota brings in a lot of money with their pheasant populations. We bring in a good share with out duck populations. Here are some questions I have. What was the amount of dollars brought in by resident hunters? Did they only compare the hunting season? Did they include hunting vehicles, hunting cloths, hunting weapons? I would bet a dime to a dollar they did not. How did they know a person from Rapid City in Watertown was a tourist or a hunter? Who did the study that said the nonresident paid 4X as much as residents?



> I didn't intend to make it sound like without MY money, the town would die...


 But that's what you keep doing.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

The DNR of Sd posted that revenue statement by county...I didn't do the survey-I do not work for the DNR. I honestly don't care who did the survey...

If we are making bets-I will give you the dime to the dollar odds that the average nonresident spends more money than you personally do in ND on average to hunt/fish. And THAT is what we are discussing -nobody cares what anyone else spends on bird food or lottery tickets. ..

And I have a problem with that bet- you bet a dime against my dollar? What kind of confidence is that? You bet $10 and I have to play with $100....

The next time you call me a liar on what I spend for money where...my filter is going to get removed-fair warning. How much is the standard going rate for a vacation? Or do you 'save' money by buying a $20,000 camper... Per night-Lake of the Woods? Food? Eat once, twice,three times a day? Bait? Gas up, back, and on the water? Fish house rent for 4 nights/3 days of fishing $625, meals during that time 8x $20=$160, fuel split 2or3 ways 60 gallons at $2.22 average, some random snacks/groceries/pop/maybe booze.... $1000 goes poof! It's the cost to play the game... I know a guy who lives in South Africa that went along to Lake of the Woods ice fishing -he was treated just like everyone else. Nobody cares who is a resident or nonresident! That is how it SHOULD be.

Duck hunting is ridiculously expensive if you need a gun, decoys, shells, dog ,boat...

And how exactly do you expect anyone to believe you spend so much money on hunting weapons, clothes, and vehicles JUST for ND hunting? Do you leave everything at home and buy new when you cross the state line? Are you spending all this money to purchase all your equipment locally? I bet not. But hey, maybe you do- I DON'T! If you give your money to Walmart or Cabela's or any other big store-your tax money stays local and that's it. Don't kid yourself thinking they are donating their profits back to the local economy without it being a PURE write off-at least I know when I tip the staff, I know that they get it.

If I have a burr up my ARs...it's because: your opinion is status quo! Which is wrong because you aren't living in the present, much less the real world in my humble opinion. Hunting/fishing is a public right- public property is open to the public if the participant pays for the opportunity (license). Private property is up to the discretion of the owner of said private property to do with as he/she wishes...if that is leasing, then that is their right as landowners. Period. No argument! If the local kid can't find a place to go-that is the parent's fault. Peddle down to the lake-I did when I was 10!

This whole idea of nonresidents not contributing their fair share for the amount of time they are there is ridiculous -would anyone prefer the license cost was reversed? They pay to play in the public hunting areas-or if they choose to pay a lease...well guess what, you aren't competing with them on public property. .. What exactly is the problem?


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

And who's money would I be spending when I'm out of state? I'm not spending your money-or the neighbor's.

As part of the other nonresidents -we are contributing greatly to the state (not YOUR state-THE STATE).


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The next time you call me a liar on what I spend for money where...


 No one has called you any such thing. I think our problem is you don't understand what I say.



> And I have a problem with that bet- you bet a dime against my dollar? What kind of confidence is that? You bet $10 and I have to play with $100....


 I meant just the opposite of the way you took this.



> Duck hunting is ridiculously expensive if you need a gun, decoys, shells, dog ,boat...


 Do you support your local business and buy that at home? I do.



> If we are making bets-I will give you the dime to the dollar odds that the average nonresident spends more money than you personally do in ND


 Really??? My pickup gets half of it's miles hunting. It's new. It's diesel and was bought locally for $56K. I recently bought a used Toyota FJ Cruiser and about 80 % of it's miles are hunting. That was bought locally and run $30K. My boat I did buy ten years ago. I am old enough I will never need another boat. The point your making is non residents spend more money. Not a chance in the world when they are only here for a week, maybe two weeks. We are here all year and buy all of our hunting equipment here. A local gunsmith built my custom 300 Win Mag. I have three campers and use two for hunting. All bought in North Dakota. A 37 ft 5th wheel in Jamestown, a 21 ft travel trailer bought in Fargo, and my 17 ft enclosed trailer is carpeted with furnace, sink, and cabinets for camping was bought locally. I could go on, but don't tell me a non resident spends more money.



> Nobody cares who is a resident or nonresident! That is how it SHOULD be.


 I don't care, but it would appear you sure do. I have said over and over for years on these forms that you judge people individually.



> And how exactly do you expect anyone to believe you spend so much money on hunting weapons, clothes, and vehicles JUST for ND hunting? Do you leave everything at home and buy new when you cross the state line? Are you spending all this money to purchase all your equipment locally? I bet not.


 That has been my point all along.



> This whole idea of nonresidents not contributing their fair share for the amount of time they are there is ridiculous -


 Fair share? Now you sound like Bernie Sanders. There is no fair share. Non residents can spend what they want. If that's $1000 or $1 I don't care. If they stop at my house like I said I will give them recommendations, a bag of apples and I don't expect a penny. All I expect is a smile and a handshake from a fellow hunter.



> What exactly is the problem?


 I have no idea.



> And who's money would I be spending when I'm out of state? I'm not spending your money-or the neighbor's.


I have no idea what your talking about.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

This is a ridiculous argument. I'm sick of it.

Myself and 1000s, if not 100s of thousands, of nonresidents are dumping a lot of money into your economy. Period.

What I do on vacation is my prerogative as a tax paying grown adult.

I really don't care what anyone else pays for what they have -besides the fact that new vehicle's depreciation is identical to the payments. I personally buy vehicles that make me money-hopefully!

I'm out-done. Wash my hands of this. No more PMs, say what you want on here... Don't pm me.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> 100s of thousands


I think at it's peak 34,000 non residents hunted waterfowl in North Dakota.

I don't get it, but non residents are largely welcome. The money they spend is appreciated. Many of us although we appreciate the people and the money don't think we would dry up and blow away without that money. Happy hunting, resident and non resident. Like I always say if you throw lead or arrows your a brother.


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

walleyecandy said:


> How is agricultural revenue comparable to tourism?
> 
> *Because it shows statistically how small tourism spending including fishing and hunting, for out of town residents and nonresidents actually is in overall county sales.*
> 
> ...


In one of the SD towns I frequent that is now a popular non resident pheasant destination and increasingly popular ice fishing destination, sporting goods items actually cost more now than before they "hit it big" in terms of becoming a hunting destination. Funny enough, a couple former out of staters opened a store/guiding business and were a "big hit" on social media catering mostly to non residents, rubbed some residents the wrong way, saw declining business, and they are now closed. If NR's are spending so much money, why aren't those guys raking it in? The nearby boat ramp has 25-50 non resident rigs parked at it on the weekends...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

SD pheasants hunting vs ND duck hunting are two different animals....

SD sees about 100K NR hunters or sell about that many licenses.... ND is about 25K (like plainsman stated at the peak it was 34K)

Getting on Pheasant hunting land in SD you either need to pay, know someone, have family, or know someone who knows someone who has killed someone....LOL.... In ND you can still knock on doors say hello, bs for a few mins, and go out and hunt.

Totally different animals and cant be compared.

Just like tourist $$$ going into each state from each event..... you are talking about + 75K's more people.

Plainsman,

Hope your son is doing better and hope u have a good hunting season coming up.

Walleye....

People are not saying that the NR dollar isn't appreciated. They are saying don't think that the state would go bankrupt if the NR stopped coming. Also when you talk about guide opperations and what not... that is benefiting one person... not the whole state. That is what Plainsman is talking about. That one guide might now go and lease 1000 acres which used to be open to everyone but now is only open to clients. That is a huge difference. You see it shuts down hunting for everyone except a select few.

Now where your argument is most valid is in license sales. That is the money that goes towards outdoor oppurtunites.... ie: more plots access or higher payments to farmers who are in the plots program, the new boat ramps, the new fish cleaning stations (love the one at devils lake for ice fishing), the purchase of more state lands, the updating of camp grounds, etc. The NR licenses fees help pay for that. Like I mentioned it takes 4 R's license sales to equal 1 NR license sale.

Again I am not complaining about cost of licenses or anything like that. It is just showing that NR license sales help the whole state with many projects along with Game and Fish wages. What I mean is that $2,500,000 (25,000 licenses x $100) helps out with a lot of funding in your state that they don't need to ask the tax payers to pay, increase license fee's for R hunters, etc.

Everyone go out and enjoy the time this fall. The ducks should be coming soon from Canada, the deer will start to rut, and well the pheasants will be a lil more crafty since the dumb ones are already dead because the season has been open about 2 weeks....lol


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

If land taxes paid for by the local agricultural businesses -i.e, farmers- is supporting the local economy. ...then why do people whine and complain about farmers so much? If you had the opportunity to get paid for one person to manage access on property you pay taxes on, and never have to hassle with locals that probably only show up during hunting season. ..it makes sense. Especially if you (as the farmer) don't hunt. 
That doesn't necessarily mean an outfitter- could be a local hunting club. Or Pheasants Forever (minnesota founded).

The amount of money paid for by the local agricultural businesses is not comparable to the money paid towards licensing- the the money paid to hunt/fish is earmarked for hunting/fishing. ... How much of the farmer's money paid for ,after tax deductions, for seed and equipment goes towards cleaning shacks and ramps? How about my Road Use tax and Fuel tax? Virtually NONE is left for the hunting/fishing fund...

But the $2.5 million in the example. ...how much of that goes towards hunting/fishing? A lot. So does the resident's license money- at a discount because they are residents.

It's irrelevant to say that people from all over the state that are locals are supporting the local economy -what's the difference between someone from in-state or out-of-state hunting/fishing? Of course they are supporting the area, but since they are from sioux falls and they fish/hunt in Webster sd or someone from Fargo Nd fishes Devils lake...that makes them 'more important' to the economy because they pay state taxes?!? What about all the taxes I pay with my semi delivering in North Dakota and South Dakota -I guarantee it's more than most Dakota residents pay total. ...so...because I'm not a resident, my opinion is wrong?


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## Easter Bunny (Oct 7, 2016)

A little off topic, but I am coming over from Chicago next week. Is it best to hunt the roost in morning or in the afternoon. Thanks!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Easter Bunny said:


> A little off topic, but I am coming over from Chicago next week. Is it best to hunt the roost in morning or in the afternoon. Thanks!


 :rollin:


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

Easter Bunny said:


> A little off topic, but I am coming over from Chicago next week. Is it best to hunt the roost in morning or in the afternoon. Thanks!


FIRST THING IN THE MORNING. MAYBE A LITTLE EARLIER IF YOU HAVE A GOOD FLASHLIGHT! :rollin:


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## KJH (Aug 23, 2006)

The ND landowner I hunt/stay with busts more roosts than any NR ever could. He absolutely detests the thought of someone telling him not to "bust a roost". He farms over 7,000 acres and doesn't get much time to hunt until harvest is over, but as soon as he does all roosts are his #1 target. He says that until there is a sign that says "roost" and a law prohibiting it, he'll hunt it every time... Why waste time hunting where the ducks aren't, he says.

The other thing is I only bring a boat most years so he can hunt from it. He loves boat hunting... its really not needed there but he gets a kick out of it. As long as he makes sure I have all the land I could ever need to hunt available to me... He can hunt all the roosts he wants and the boat parade will continue for this guy.

The whole roost and R vs. NR is funny to me. I've never met a ND R who has't welcomed me with open arms or cared about a roost. I asked a landowner once about roosts and he didn't even understand the concept. He was a casual duck hunter and simply said "I hunt where the ducks are"...

I get the roost thing and am a little understanding of it. I don't focus on roosts during my 10 days a year there, but if you read this forum you'd think all ND R hate NR and all NR hunt roosts exclusively and trespass at every occasion. All NR ruin everything, at every single opportunity they get. My experience in ND isn't farther from this.

Another thing, NR are not the only reason things are posted. The landowners I know don't care one bit about waterfowl or pheasant hunters. The ONLY reason they started posting anything in the last 3 years is for deer hunting. Call them and they will say go ahead and hunt 98% of the time.

Final thing... The only time I've ever seen anyone chase down feeding geese on a dirt bike was a resident. The rider had an unplugged gun and all.

NR are a easy target for complaints.


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