# Could Have I Shot??



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Last year went on a hunt. We were on Plots. Rooster goes up on the PLOTS, right next to a fence that seperated the PLOTS from some posted Property. Rooster flies over the posted land and I did not shoot (I was on the PLOTS). I still get crap about not shooting it but I felt that it was for one illegal and two that it just did not feel right since the bird was now over the posted field. So could have I shot the bird?

Even if it is legal I would not do it but I am curious.


----------



## Chris Schulz (Sep 7, 2004)

If it was on plots land i wouldve shot it, only if I could have made the kill and dropped the bird before it flew over the fence line. I guess its easy for me to say that now but my natural instinct out in the feild would've told me to shoot it anyways. It must have been hard to restrain yourself.Good ethics is the way to be. :beer:


----------



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Pork chop

No you can not shoot a bird after it flies into posted property, if you shot it on PLOTS land and it ended up on posted land you may enter the posted property without your gun and legally pick up your harvested bird.

Bob


----------



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Thanks guys. Like I said I still get crap about not shooting it but I was not sure if it was legal and it did not feel right. When in doubt don't pull the trigger!

I bet he was banded and would have won the long tail contest! :lol:


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Porkchop... up north here where the pheasants don't do very good alot of us don't shoot them at all to try to give them a chance to multiply. But there are people who don't care if we have pheasants up here so they hammer every one they see. All the ones who shoot them say well they are going to die in the cold winter anyway, but definitely not all will die from natural causes. It's usually the younger guys who can't resist around here. It's your choice and you could have shot at the bird.


----------



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Buckseye

You are wrong sir. Unless the bird was shot on the PLOTS land it would be illegal to shoot it on posted land without permission.

20.1-01-17. Posting of lands by owner or tenant to prohibit hunting - How posted - Signs defaced. Only the owner or tenant of any land may post it by placing signs alongside the public highway or the land giving notice that no hunting is permitted on the land. The name of the person posting the land must appear on each sign in legible characters. The signs must be readable from the outside of the land and must be placed conspicuously not more than eight hundred eighty yards [804.68 meters] apart. As to land entirely enclosed by a fence or other enclosure, posting of signs at or on all gates through the fence or enclosure constitutes a posting of all the enclosed land. No person may in any manner deface, take down, or destroy posting signs.

*20.1-01-18. Hunting on posted land and trapping on private land without
permission unlawful - Penalty. No person may hunt or pursue game, or enter for those purposes, upon legally posted land belonging to another without first obtaining the permission of the person legally entitled to grant the same. No person may enter upon privately owned land for
the purpose of trapping protected fur-bearing animals without first gaining the written permission of the owner or operator of that land. A person who violates this section is guilty of a class B misdemeanor for the first offense and a class A misdemeanor for a subsequent offense within a two-year period.*
*20.1-01-19. When posted land may be entered. Any person may enter upon legally posted land to recover game shot or killed on land where the person had a lawful right to hunt.*

20.1-01-20. Entering posted land with gun or firearm prima facie evidence of intent to hunt game. Proof that a person having a firearm, or other weapon declared legal by governor's proclamation, in the person's possession entered upon the legally posted premises of another without permission of the owner or tenant is prima facie evidence the person entered to hunt or pursue game.

Bob


----------



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

I was down south and saw many a bird.

I was on the PLOTS. The bird took off from the PLOTS but by time I got the gun up he was over the private land. I would have been shooting over the fence and if I would have hit it it would have landed on the private land.

I don't regret one bit not shooting. Just wondering if the crap I am getting is justified.


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> We were on Plots.


Bob he wrote he was on plots when he flushed the bird. Don't jump the gun on me you old coot.... :lol:

PC... the reason I wrote that is it's a rarity to see pheasant around here and they are pretty to see once in a while. I have friends who have raised and released 1000's of pheasant up here and they just don't do well.


----------



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Not jumpin the gun just trying to clarify the answer!!

Peace!! :wink:

Bob


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

What are you writing about Bob??? Now I an confused.... so do you have it figured out now???

It's no biggy Bob but when someone tells me I am wrong in a public forum and I am not wrong I kinda expect an apology in the same public forum. 8)


----------



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Buckseye Do you think it is legal to shoot a bird a bird that flushed from PLOTS land onto private posted land without permission?

*



No person may hunt or pursue game, or enter for those purposes, upon legally posted land belonging to another without first obtaining the permission of the person legally entitled to grant the same.

Click to expand...

*It is against the law as I read it to shoot over posted land without permission. How do you read that?

Bob


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I read the bird flushed on plots and it is legal to shoot on plots, that is very simple. Why dig a hole and fill it with worms???

If you are standing on plots and shoot towards (not the barrel hanging over the fence either) private land that is 1000% legal and ethical. 8)

An after thought... maybe you ground ball birds, I shoot'em in the air. It would be illegal to ground ball a bird on the posted land without permission.


----------



## johnsona (Dec 4, 2003)

buckseye,

Sure PC could have shot if he had got the gun up quick enough, but by the time he did the bird was flying over posted land he didn't have permission to hunt. In a deal like this, the bird is not a PLOTS bird flying over private land, but becomes a bird from that private land the instant he crosses the fence, even if he's in the air. The way I'm reading what Bob wrote, if you don't have permission to hunt the side of the fence the bird will drop on, you don't have permission to shoot that bird. So good job PC! :thumb:


----------



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Just checked with NDGF it is against the law to shoot over private posted land without permission. Shoot it on PLOTS great shoot it on plots and it falls on private posted land go get it! Shoot it on Private land with permission great, without permission=against the law.

Bob


----------



## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

123


----------



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

I guess I do not understand your question, from the laws posted above there is no distinction between criminal trespass and trespass.



> 20.1-01-19. When posted land may be entered.
> Any person may enter upon legally posted land to recover game shot or killed on land where the person had a lawful right to hunt.


 ?????

Bob


----------



## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Right on thanks Bob... thought it was a subject worthy of more discussion. I knew it was a gray area discussion, definitely if the bird is on the other side of the fence you can't shoot. That was not stated, that's why I wrote the baloney about ground balling on the other guys property to bring that out. Good job your right but I'm am NOT wrong. 8)


----------



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

No problem Buck!!

Have a good one! Do you have your snow plow waxed and ready to go? 

Bob


----------



## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

I am not an attorney but Logic tells me criminal trespass is trespass where a crime is or has taken place, in that event you have already broken the law while trespassing or by trespassing and I would think if confronted you would not have any right to the harvested game.

Just speculation though.

Bob


----------



## Drixmein (Jan 25, 2003)

I guess I would argue in favor of Buckseye on this one. I am a law student, done a little research on trespass. Many courts in the US have found that the airspace above property, namely land, is not in fact 'owned' outright by the owner. I guess this is a very debateable subject, and though I regret to inform you all, a claim brought by ANY landowner for something like this would, in my opinion, would never prevail. Whether it is ethical or not might be another story...but for legality, I highly doubt you could be found guilty of trespass under those circumstances.

Also; If you really want to find out, research some ND case law, if there is any on this subject.


----------



## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

There are two types of trespass on the books, one G&F and the other civil.

Under ND law land unposted can be lawfully enter to hunt upland or big game. That does not mean that if the landowner tells you to leave the property you do not have to. At that point if you continue to hunt the landowner can have you charged for trespass but it would not fall under the G&F law. The same law applies to people operating snowmobiles or ATV etc. Plus he can under the civil trespass seek monetary repayment for damage to the property from the party if any occurred. Maybe not the best example, but trying to clarify some things.

When Froliech filed his lawsuit, and Ed Schultz had him on the radio, he gave an example of a landowner not having any ability to stop snowmobiles who would ride on his land. When I got to talk to him on the radio, I pointed out the current laws we have, and that his statement was false as I listed above.

The law is very clear, any property owner at any time can ask a person to leave that property, if they fail to do so they can be charged for civil criminal trespass.

It is not complicated nor confusing if one justs takes the time to find out what the laws are. So many people hear opinions etc, and assume things. These assumptions lead to conflicts many times. Bob posted the portions of one of the statues. These are on line. So check it out and make yourself aware of our laws. It will help reduce run in's. It is our responsibility to know the laws, and how they apply not the farmer or landowner. Just use good common sense and it go's a long way.


----------



## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

zzzzzzzzz


----------

