# State Trappers and Airplane Coyote hunts?



## yotecall'r (Jul 29, 2008)

I was just wondering where our state trappers draw the line as far as killing coyotes from the plane?

From a pretty credible.... well more than a pretty credible source, a state trapper in our area has shot close to 160 coyotes over the last two weekends from the plane. I can understand killing a few in problem areas, but I find it hard to believe killing 160 in one area is neccessary. Couldn't they wait till later in the spring and let some trappers/callers take care of some of the problem if there is one?

Also, is there any way to find out which areas they've flown in?

Someone please enlighten me. I don't want to get all bent out of shape about it till I get some kind of education on the subject matter. Thanks!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Well having had a sister who had problems a number of years back I can say for certainty that they would not be taking out coyotes from the air unless there was issues of livestock damage. They took out over twenty in two days with sleds and airplanes and within a week they had coyotes in the barn yard area and needed them to come out again.


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

Knowing both sides of the deal helps. Our family operates a cattle ranch and I also hunt yotes. I think it is totally nessacary for them to fly. I hate to say it but weekend hunters and trappers just can't do it all. Coyotes can be a huge problem, so flying is one way to get alot of yotes. When they can get 160 in 2 weekends, there is definataley a prob with coyotes. The avarage they get here is about 8 a day.


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## yotecall'r (Jul 29, 2008)

How many is a realistic number in a square mile do you think? on average that is?

I guess I'm a little uneducated on how many coyotes are actually out there.

Also, where you ranch do you have a lot of problems with coyotes year round or just during calving season?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Just what kind of "area" are we talking here? 160 coyotes in two weekends im betting came from a LARGE area. Most likely a good handful (or more) of counties. Probably from several (or maybe a dozen) different complaints.

I doubt highly that many that fast came from a localized area.


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## yotecall'r (Jul 29, 2008)

Sorry, I guess i should have explained "area".

To my knowledge the area they flew in actually covered portions of two bordering counties.....but not two entire counties. I'm sure there were several complaints. I would actually be suprised if there weren't any complaints at all because that area is known to have several coyotes. But 160 coyotes? Is that even possible in two counties in two weekends?


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## Wrestler720 (Dec 21, 2007)

anything is possible with semi-automatic weapons


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

A coyote hunter of considerable experience back home has called out as many as twenty in 4 sets. One setup got 7 to come out of a grass slough area close to a area where deer had yarded up!

A good friend that runs cattle south west of Jamestown had 14 in his barn yard one morning a couple years ago. Fed Trapper took out 13 around his farm in two days with an airplane.

Along the James River in the mid 90's I know they had a huge problem and I do not remember how many they took after a heavy snow. I know it was well over 50 from Highway 46 to Highway 13 and it barely dented the predidation complaints and issues.

I have absolutely no issues with them going into an area and taking them out. Conditions for use of an airplane is very good right now. It is a lot harder when there is little or no snow cover.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Im still willing to bet they came from a much larger area than you think they did.

You know how this "I know a guy that knows a guy" stuff goes.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Ok, well here comes some insight. I know a guy who knows a guy. 

Federal Trappers only cover about 3% of North Dakota. That doesn't seem like much, but that's a lot of land. 
Total area on ND is 70,704 square miles, including lakes etc. 
Total Land area is 68,994 square miles.

So 3% of 70,704 = 2,121.12 square miles.

Fed T. only respond to coyote activities if they are predating livestock. Each livestock incident requires several miles around the depredation site to pick up the right/guilty party.

This year in particular with all the snow, Federal Trappers would be limited to what they can use on the ground, ie. calling shooting, snaring, other. So using the airplane to lessen the load in the spring is what they are trying to do. There isn't very many of them so it would be a lot of area to cover.

I also would have a hard time believing they work many weekends unless they are having some real problems. I've also never heard of them using sleds to run coyotes, they have to follow the rules too.

There has been several studies on the effects that aerial hunting has on coyotes, it basically doesn't do anything to the population in that area. It will drop the numbers for a short time, then the surrounding coyotes will move in to fill the void. It's called Source to Sink.

I've hunted some land down by Mandan that the land owner had said that the airplane had been in there, but I managed to pick something up every time I went there.

I hope that clears things up a bit.

xdeano


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

yotecall'r said:


> How many is a realistic number in a square mile do you think? on average that is?
> 
> I guess I'm a little uneducated on how many coyotes are actually out there.
> 
> Also, where you ranch do you have a lot of problems with coyotes year round or just during calving season?


I have no idea how many there are per square mile, and they are a problem mainly during calving season, but when there have been coyotes that come up to the porch and eat out of the dogs food bowl, then they're a problem. A couple weeks ago we saw to coyotes in two days in the same spot in two different cases, both ungodly close to the house. You have to go after them year round to make a difference. Just my 0.02


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

xdeano

Thanks for the clarification. As was said, it is almost impossible to eradicate a predator from an area. If an area holds predators, due to cover or food, they will continue to attract predators to that area. You will not eliminate them!


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## yotecall'r (Jul 29, 2008)

My "know a guy who knows a guy" is the pilot of the state trappers plane just to clarify. :wink:

Also, Deano....great post. That gives me a little better understanding of the overall picture. I heard 160 coyotes and try to think if I've even called in that many in my lifetime and i dont think i have.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Sleds use to be used to move the coyotes out into the open not chase them once they are up. I do not know if that practice is still used but it was in the past.
In regards to laws being followed, stop and think for a moment about ND law. Use of airplane for hunting is prohibited and if you are in the air, you have a time frame of which you cannot hunt. How then can a trapper use an airplane as a shooting platform?

Just food for thought!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ron Gilmore said:


> Sleds use to be used to move the coyotes out into the open not chase them once they are up. I do not know if that practice is still used but it was in the past.
> In regards to laws being followed, stop and think for a moment about ND law. Use of airplane for hunting is prohibited and if you are in the air, you have a time frame of which you cannot hunt. How then can a trapper use an airplane as a shooting platform?
> 
> Just food for thought!


Well for starters the state/federal guy isnt hunting, hes eradicating. Big difference. An exterminator doesnt give cockroaches a sporting chance, and neither do these guys.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

bareback you got the point!!!!!!!!!!!! :beer:


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Ron I don't know if I understand your question? To make it clear to others reading this...yes, the government can fly and gun problem predators.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Wrestler720 said:


> anything is possible with semi-automatic weapons


 :lol: :lol:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Fallguy my comment was in response to xdeano saying they still need to follow the law. I was simply pointing out that when it comes to eradication I do not know of any Fed laws that would prohibit the use of sleds and that state law prohibits hunting from an airplane as well as using sleds to pursue game. Since what they are doing is shooting predator animals in a problem area the use of sleds as location tools is not out of the realm. Like I said before not sure if the practice is still done, but it was in the past.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I know the fed trappers are "above" the law in a way... but what if someone doesn't want them shooting dogs off of there land? That would still be them shooting off of private property, and so on correct? So do they have to haver permission before they fly over? Or do they just do whatever they want?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

They have to have permission or "landowner cooperation" just like the rest of us.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

bareback I am not sure, but I do not think they need permission to fly and shoot when predidation issues are at hand. I do not remember all of what was involved with my sisters situation that time. I do know they did secure permission to use the sleds in crossing property but I do not think they had to for the shooter in the plane!

Might be worth a call to find out, but I do not know of to many landowners who would object to coyote elimination.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Im pretty sure they need cooperation from landowners. I could be wrong, but I have a buddy that in this line of work.

I KNOW they need it for ground access.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

No argument there! Like I said I know that they had to get permission for the sleds.


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

Ron Gilmore said:


> bareback I am not sure, but I do not think they need permission to fly and shoot when predidation issues are at hand. I do not remember all of what was involved with my sisters situation that time. I do know they did secure permission to use the sleds in crossing property but I do not think they had to for the shooter in the plane!
> 
> Might be worth a call to find out, but I do not know of to many landowners who would object to coyote elimination.


They have to have permission to fly and ground acces


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Yes, there is permission to fly on/over, shoot on, set traps on, snare on, or set foot on. They follow the rules, or they'd have so many lawsuits that they couldn't keep their doors open.

They can and do use a sled or atv's to *flush* coyotes, and to retrieve animals for testing. But they don't actually use sleds or ATV's to hunt coyotes.

There is a little clause that states that people can use aerial hunting in ND, but you have to jump through so much red tape it is unbelievable. There are a few people still doing it in ND, in the SW corner of the state I believe there was a couple, but they can only hunt their own land, if i remember right.

Ron, 
It isn't exactly eradication. Why, because you aren't going to kill every coyote in a 4 x 4 square section of land. Especially if it has any type of cover, trees, tall grass, rock out crops, or if a coyote were to cross the boundary of the people that permission has not been attained, they won't just keep running to the next county, they'll be back. There are so many people hunting coyotes with sleds, that even when they hear something with a motor they run for cover. Suppression would be a better term than eradication.

So yeah they still need to follow the laws.

xdeano


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Thanks guys I would not have argued either way and like I said it was a number of years ago that I had contact in regards to coyotes. Yeah and the term eradication is not apt.


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