# Dorgan feeling the heat of RE-Election not being a slam dunk



## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Dorgan is seeking to paint himself as being fiscally responsible even when his voting record indicates otherwise for the majority of his votes. While he can claim he did not vote for spending bills under Bush, he cannot run away from the fact that he voted in favor of more expansive spending than what was passed. So with the fact that he is not polling in the 60% range because of HC,Debt,defiects,taxes,etc... he has now decided to pretend to be fiscally responsible!!!!!

Under fire, Napolitano halts projects for review

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Sep 16, 6:13 PM (ET)

By EILEEN SULLIVAN

WASHINGTON (AP) - Facing criticism for her handling of federal stimulus money, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said Wednesday that she would not start any new border construction projects while the department reviewed how projects were selected.

Napolitano has faced questions since The Associated Press reported last month that Homeland Security officials did not follow their internal priority lists when choosing which border checkpoints would get money for renovations. Under a process that is secretive and susceptible to political influence, officials planned to spend millions at tiny checkpoints, passing over busier, higher-priority projects.

The criticism peaked Wednesday when a senior Senate Democrat, Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, said that, despite Napolitano's assurances, he felt Homeland Security was treating the economic stimulus plan like a "bottomless pit" of taxpayer money. It was unusually pointed criticism from a member of the president's own party about how the administration is handling economic recovery spending.

"There's no common sense at all to a requirement that says you've got to put up a $15 million facility for a small port of entry that's host to about five vehicles an hour," Dorgan, whose state stood to receive $128 million for checkpoint improvements, said in a telephone interview.

Within hours, Napolitano promised not to begin any new border construction projects and set up a 30-day review of how the projects were selected.

"At the end of that review, I will make all information, not involving national security concerns, public," Napolitano wrote in a letter to Dorgan.

So far, Homeland Security has refused to release its internal priority list or its justifications for deviating from it. Instead, officials say the final project list is all they need to make public.

While Napolitano's review may disclose information about the selection process, it appears unlikely to change much. That's because Homeland Security has already signed many construction contracts, including low-priority projects such as the $15 million renovation for the sleepy border checkpoint at Whitetail, Mont.

Congress required the department to create a priority list in 2003 but the Obama administration added its own subjective decision-making to the process, making it vulnerable to the political influence that Obama pledged to keep out of the stimulus.

Two Montana Democratic senators, for instance, said they personally appealed to Napolitano to get money for lower-priority border projects. That includes the $15 million plan for Whitetail, which will build a checkpoint the size and cost of a Hollywood mansion at a crossing that serves three travelers a day.

Napolitano defended those decisions in her letter, saying northern border stations could be repaired for a fraction of the cost of busier checkpoints. But she said the department would review those decisions.

"Americans should have confidence in the objectivity and openness with which Recovery funds are spent and the Department of Homeland Security is committed to upholding this responsibility," Napolitano wrote.

Dorgan sits on the powerful Appropriations Committee, which helps control the purse strings for the federal government.

"We're deep in debt, we really do need to be smart about how we spend money," Dorgan said. "In my judgment, this is not a smart investment."

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Associated Press writer Matt Apuzzo contributed to this report


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

No country has ever spent themselves into prosperity!


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## tsj (Jul 22, 2006)

i agree with you bucksye :beer:


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Ron Gilmore said:


> Dorgan is seeking to paint himself as being fiscally responsible even when his voting record indicates otherwise for the majority of his votes. While he can claim he did not vote for spending bills under Bush, he cannot run away from the fact that he voted in favor of more expansive spending than what was passed. So with the fact that he is not polling in the 60% range because of HC,Debt,defiects,taxes,etc... he has now decided to pretend to be fiscally responsible!!!!!


Have you ever watched any of the appropriations committee on C-SPAN? Dorgan has always been the guy asking the hard-nosed questions.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

buckseye said:


> No country has ever spent themselves into prosperity!


What about Reagan and supply-side economics? Many give him credit for getting the country out of the recession in the early 1980's by doing exactly that.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I am interested to see who will run against Dorgan. Hoeven? ND republicans have not exactly challenged the incumbents lately.

Dorgan isn't in favor of cap and trade, mexican trucking, outsourcing of jobs, and wasteful spending. Some of the main issues repubs will try to burn him on. I don't know if he is untouchable but he has got to be as close as it gets.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

TK33 sorry we have talked about this before, and like it or not, Dorgan is a pork barrel politician and proud of it. His opposition to wasteful spending is spending not in ND. A prime example was the research grant funding that both Conrad and Pooperboy have crowed about concerning capturing of CO2.

The sad part about the grant was that it duplicated the work UND and the oil and coal companies have already done. It will not produce anything new. Just pork to UND!

Our country is no longer able to afford this and I think the good people of ND are realizing this. They still want to protect their Ag subsidy, and we as a nation will not be able to do so the way things are headed.

Now Dorgan and Conrad and Pooperboy have all made pledges to not support a public option. Yet the committee that Conrad sat on the so called Gang of Six trotted out a PO program disguised in its title only as a CO-OP. They will twist and turn and try and gloss over this in so many ways to vote for it, when it is a direct conflict of what they have stated they would do in the Town Hall meetings.

Then let's look hard and I mean hard at Dorgan's so called disdain for wasteful spending! I want you to think about the bridge over the Red River on Main! The bridge was funded, wide enough for all of the stuff the Veterans groups had planned, but was not grand enough for Dorgan and Peterson. So they ear marked money for beautification of the bridge to enhance colors etc.. to the tune of $2.5 million additional dollars. Same for the Fed Court House and the list goes on and on!!!!!!!

Then there is the run away Fed Crop program which during a year of highest farm profits tripled in cost to the tax payers because of waste which is a result of provisions Dorgan pushed for. These provisions now make almost every single acre eligible for some sort of loss. Now tell me TK when a farmer pulls 80+ bu wheat off of a piece of ground we the tax payers should be paying him for some wind loss.

Dorgan, and Pooper boy need to go! The stimulus that Dorgan is now complaining about was clearly not something ND wanted, he heard it at the town meeting in WF and others across the state. No bank bail out and no big bloated stimulus. How did he vote?

So Dorgan is playing the two step hoping people like you do not see it. His words and actions are similar to Harry Reid of NV. Who sent out a statement praising Baccus and the crew for producing a good HC bill then tells the people of NV it is not good enough for them.

Dorgan in Jan of this year was untouchable, to much money, and things where going along OK. But the HC, Tax and Cap, the blow up with the stimulus, Cash for Clunkers, and others have peoples attention. You can tell that Joel and Mike are trying very hard to get off of the Washington subjects because of the melt down.

I lost all trust for him when he voted for the AWB, when he said he would not. I lost trust for him when he backed Dashles claim that the new farm program would eliminate the need for disaster programs and less than two months later they where begging for disaster relief.

I lost respect for him when he and Conrad,Dashle,Harkin,the Sen from MN that died pushed through regulations on the rail industry that allowed for unfair pricing of rail cars and supplying of rail cars for ND grain elevators, then tried to blame Bush for it because he signed it.

Sorry TK, my age and memory of all these things cannot understand how anyone who is willing to dig a bit on the subject of waste can ever say Dorgan is against it. During the years when the House was controlled by the Rep and Dem's the Sen under Clinton, every single bill passed out of the Senate had a higher price tag than that of the House. Dorgan never once on a spending bill voted against them. Same during the Bush years, if you look, Dorgan supported higher spending bills almost every time. Both he and Conrad both claimed not enough money was being spent, or they had their pork projects they wanted funded.

I will be the first to admit that many people have benefited from the pork spending. But with a Trillion Dollar Defect, that he helped create, I can say it is time to take the check book away from him and Pooperboy.

By the way TK these are just the things I know off the top of my head. If I start digging I can find a whole lot more. If ND has any dignity it will vote out the spenders and give others a chance to right the ship!!!!!!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

The question still is who is going to replace them? Are they going to try Sand again? I can't remember that guy from Fargo that threw his name in the ring.

Dorgan is not spotless, no poltician is. I have never seen any politician that voted the right way every time. The rail industry is a very weird one to say the least. Opinions are both ways on the whole railroad thing. I think he is riding out the healthcare deal until he finds one that has popular support. That might take a while.

Say we vote in a fresh repub, say Hoeven. Hoeven could not even handle wsi without letting it spiral out of control and become an embarassment to the state, can he be trusted in DC?

Dorgan is a pork guy at times. The bridge was a pretty big one, but I don't think all of his earmarks are bad. What about the ones that bring in jobs? Dorgan brings in pork and his repub counterparts put up the tax breaks, what is the difference?

Dorgan and many other dems who were nearly untouchable a few short months ago might be in a lot of trouble soon. If they lose they will know who to thank.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Tk we always here what about the Jobs, well what about them? Are they sustained, or short lived? Does everyone benefit or simply the dirt contractors?

Here is something to think about. Gov comes in creates a job by building an office for research. The intent of the building is to attract commerce, but it is long term. ND is fairly seasonal on construction work, so we need another project for the next year and Gov pork is used. This goes on and on and people assume they are creating jobs, but in reality they are not.

Yes there are projects that where sound and practical that others would call pork in ND. But if the spending and debt are of a concern to you,or anyone then all pork including your own state needs to be looked at.

Hey they painted murals in my home town with some grant money from the Gov under Bush. They are nice, it employed a couple people for a short while but the murals are fading and the Gov program that created them is still costing us money on the borrowed dollars and interest!!!!!!!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Matt Jones said:


> buckseye said:
> 
> 
> > No country has ever spent themselves into prosperity!
> ...


He just turned up the inflation machine. The USA has been going down since the Kennedy's took us off the gold standard. :sniper:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

> Yes there are projects that where sound and practical that others would call pork in ND. But if the spending and debt are of a concern to you,or anyone then all pork including your own state needs to be looked at.


If the projects, like the Research Corridor have sustained jobs and taxes then they are not pork. That would be wise spending. Yes all the dirt contractors seem to love our delegation  If the corps could actually come up with a plan to protect us instead of just bandaids here and bandaids there that would benefit all of us, not just the dirtworkers. As far as some of the other projects we see that are short lived and special interest driven, they need to go.

The part of Dorgan's plans that make sense are curbing outsourcing, and giving tax breaks to those who outsource, consumer advocacy, healthcare for all children, and cutting down on some waste. Another one of my favorite criticisms of Dorgan is that he doesn't support offshore drilling. I hope he doesn't, his job is to represent ND, therefore him and the other two should be fighting to drill here in ND.

As I said he is not perfect, and has flip flopped on guns but all and all imo he is still good. Definetely the best of the three. :beer:


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Ron Gilmore said:


> But with a Trillion Dollar Defect, that he helped create, I can say it is time to take the check book away from him and Pooperboy.


They all helped create it. Democrat and Republican alike.

To be honest, I've been suprised by how little the Republicans have resisted the spending. Take the $787 billion stimulus for instance.

The Republicans had absolutely zero problems spending it. Their issue with it had nothing to do with the dollar amount, it had to do with how it was spent. They wanted more of it spent on tax breaks and the Dems wanted more in job creation.

Let's be honest, if McCain had won and the Republicans had done better overall and retained more seats in congress...the deficit would be the same. The banks and auto industry still would have been bailed out. Maybe the stipulations would have differed but the price tag would have remained the same.

All this tea party stuff and complaining over deficits is simply partisan politics. There were record deficits for the majority of the Bush years, where were all these people who are protesting against spending then? It isn't like this is some 'new' problem that just crept up on us. It's been going on for 30 years.

For the record, the spending is by far and away my biggest concern with our country at this point. I was very concerned about it during the Bush years and I'm even more concerned about it now.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

> He just turned up the inflation machine. The USA has been going down since the Kennedy's took us off the gold standard


David

FDR took the us off of the Gold Standard for a short period. It was the Nixon Administration who took the U.S. off permanently in the early 70's


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Now Dorgan is attempting to hedge his words at the Town Hall meetings!

You remember at Colfax and Casselton he stated to the mike and recorded and broadcast by the news outlets that he would not support a Public Option!

Now his HC e-mails say he will not support a Gov take over of HC!!!!

So TK is is word worth listening to? There is a huge difference between the spoken statement and his printed statement!!!!

But if people do not make him honor his words and give him a pass because of the Pork, then do not complain about the state the country is in, or any taxes that are raised, or gun control votes he makes etc......

To long because of the Pork people have looked the other way and given him a pass!!!!!!!!!!!!

He might be the better of the Three Stooges, but that does not mean he is not a liar, or back peddler!!!!!


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Ron, where were you, and all the other tea partiers, the past 5 years of record deficits?

You were in support of the $Trillion that was dumped into Iraq all through deficit spending, under the notion that it was something that had to be done for the sake of the country.

So you aren't against deficit spending or pork. You're against deficit spending when it's done by the party that you don't support.

This newfound outrage from conservatives that was completely absent during the Bush years over Washington not being able to balance a budget is partisan politics at it's finest.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Matt you are so far off base it is funny! Look back at my posts, I railed then against pork spending regardless of party. I supported the war, but not the way it was run. I also stated that give away programs full of pork where bad then, I did not support them taking the war costs off budget, and the list goes on and on.

I supported the tax breaks because it did exactly what it was suppose to, increase revenue to the Gov as more wealth was created. But spending then and now way above sustainable levels are dooming our chances of a quick recovery and dampening the long term recovery as well.

The most recent round of spending has in the world markets tipped the balance away from US currency Matt as being what is used as a standard of exchange. If the US dollar is replaced by the Euro for example it will become similar to China and Russia in trade value. Something it seems you do not want to grasp or you would not have made the uniformed post you did.


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

Is this thread about Dorgan or Bush? :huh:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Ron I honestly can't keep track of all of the healthcare non-sense out there now. I know that I heard Dorgan say that he would vote against any bill that is a waste of money and would sacrifice quality. I know that Dorgan is also in favor of lifting the ban on out of country pharmacuticals.

Until there is a bill that they are voting on I am not even going to try to keep up. I tried earlier but it just got ridiculous. I missed all the town hall meetings, one of them was at my friend's farm. Had to work late.

I know that Dorgan was one of 8 senators who voted against the deregulation of the financial industry. About a year ago one of the tv shows had him on and played his speech on the senate floor and it was like he had a glass ball. He predicted almost every one of the messes that we are trying to fix now.

He has definetely flip flopped, find me a politician that doesn't. He has also voted against his own party and his party's president, pretty safe to say he would vote against Obama, that is a good thing considering the filibuster rules.

Until ND repubs can find someone better this a moot point.

I would also like to point out that anytime one of the big three brings home a pork project Governor Pretty Boy is right there smiling along side of them, usually with a shovel in hand 8)


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Tk that is why I am not in favor of Hoven running against Dorgan. We need someone who is fiscally responsible in that seat and is not a party lap dog. By that I mean a hawk who is going to bring to the front the pork, waste and hidden crap in these bills.

But back to Dorgan, you should read his book, then after that, I doubt very much if you will vote for him again. He has a protectionist attitude that should scare everyone who is working in an industry that exports goods or services. His tariff ideas would dry up farm and manufacturing exports like Bobcat as a prime example. Most major builders of machinery already have plants in the US. On other goods where the costs of start up are over the top, sales would never reach levels of profitability because prices would be so high that people will not buy them.

It is over a year before the next election but the economy, cap and trade, health care will determine a lot on how strong a candidate needs to run against Dorgan. His votes and his speeches will either sink him or he will win in a run away.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I have read take this job and ship it. I have not yet read his new book.

Given our trade deficit I think anyone who exports goods or services is already scared. Maybe not the executive types but their employees. I think that you are referring to Dorgan's ideas might make other nations impose tariffs on US goods, or that gov't could force corps to move these jobs back here at a loss. We are the largest consumer in the world, why not try to keep some or our money here. Some of his ideas are pie in the sky, those jobs are gone but if tax breaks and incentives went to the right place some jobs could possibly be brought back. That was covered in his chapter on Walmart, a subject that a conservative econ teacher I had talked about too. They were surprisingly close in their views. :-?

I have never been a fan of deregulation because this little thing called ethics has gone by the wayside. Commidities, Fannie, Freddie, healthcare, and on and on. Government should set and enforce the rules and get out of the way. Much like a good boxing referee, only no standing 8's. Let them fall.

The only issue in front of Dorgan that could break him is healthcare. We already know where he stands on cap and trade and the economy. If he is feeling the heat on the spending and listened at all during the town hall meetings he should be fine.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Ron Gilmore said:


> The most recent round of spending has in the world markets tipped the balance away from US currency Matt as being what is used as a standard of exchange. If the US dollar is replaced by the Euro for example it will become similar to China and Russia in trade value. Something it seems you do not want to grasp or you would not have made the uniformed post you did.


Totally agree with you.

I'm not sure where you were able to read into my post and see that I said what you thought I said that I didn't say??? If that makes any sense. :-?

Ron, we have disagreed at times on this forum but I bet if we sat down over a beer we'd agree on a lot more issues than you'd think. It's weird how that works and how conversations play out in this medium. Either way I respect your concern for our country even if I don't always agree.

As for Dorgan, he has done a good job IMO and I think he deserves another term...which he will most likely get. Hoeven isn't right for the job, and the Republicans haven't put up anyone that would be worth taking a gamble on yet. Dorgan has some seniority and is on a lot of committees and he carries a lot of pull in DC. Unless the other guy is a political dynamo I see no reason to take a chance on someone else and lose all that. A freshman senator would be able to do a lot less for the state in comparison to Dorgan IMO.

If you really disapprove of the guy that's one thing. But what has Dorgan done that you don't think another politician would do?

As far as politicians go, he's done a good job representing the people of his state and not his own self-interests IMO.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> A freshman senator would be able to do a lot less for the state in comparison to Dorgan IMO.


They could do a lot less damage too.  

More seriously, have any of you noticed that often when our senators vote against something it easily passes anyway. Then when the chips are down they vote with the party. I would guess that democrat or republican that happens to often. It appears both sides have become more loyal to the party than our country or the people they should represent. I think we really need term limits.

How did Dorgan vote on Sotamayor? He may not have voted for extreme gun bills, but did he vote for a judge that hates guns? I don't expect a frontal attack on the second amendment, but I expect it back door through a liberal judge, or a Mexican or UN treaty etc.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Matt you really should pay attention to my posting from this point forward and also do some reading regarding Dorgan. Your apathy towards his job performance is exactly what I have strived for years to get people to check on.

I have done the looking,listening and direct questioning of Dorgan when given an opportunity. My guess, is Matt you base your opinion around the ads Dorgan runs and the rah rah!!! cheerleaders on the radio that worship Dorgan.

If you do a bit of looking yourself you will answer your own question and believe it. His book is a good start!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Bob Kellam said:


> > He just turned up the inflation machine. The USA has been going down since the Kennedy's took us off the gold standard
> 
> 
> David
> ...


That is true, Thanks Bob. But I think it was set up by the Kennedy's and when the Viet Nam War was going it gave the US gov the balls to take us off again. Inflation is not a good thing for us.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

The Kennedy's were heavily invested in gold, they made their gold worth more dollars even though they were inflated dollars.

The next great leap will be when the world fully recognizes nuclear energy, uranium and plutonium will be the measure of wealth then.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Alright Ron, I'll do some more checking into Dorgan so I can make some comparisons to him and the other guy...

...wait, there isn't another guy. :-?

It's hard to debate the lesser of two evils when there is only one evil.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Matt at this point you are right! The point of the thread was and remains that for the first time, Dorgan is facing a public who are now concerned at a level he has never seen before. It is why he is campaigning already! An incumbent like him normally would sit back divert the money coming in to state elections like they tried the past few years.

All I ask Matt is that you or anyone simply look at Dorgan and his voting record in regards to what he claims.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

You're right Ron, fair enough. I'll definitely do some digging before I cast my vote.

I agree that it's pretty apparent that Dorgan is feeling the heat and scared from the possibility of Hoeven running.


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## API (Jul 14, 2009)

Count your blessings. Your cross to bear ain't so heavy. How would like to have Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein for Senators? :crybaby:


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

or Amy Klobuchar and Al Franken :eyeroll:  :crybaby: uke:


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

> How would like to have Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein for Senators?


In a round about way be do. Dorgan follows(votes) with the pack :******:


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