# Help, please... someone!



## vbeamerv

Hello... I just aquired a 12 ga Marlin Slugmaster Model 512... It's a 12 gauge gun, with a rifle stock, and a clip/magazine.. bolt action rifled barrel... I was wondering... Would it be a sufficient gun to humanely kill a deer, and if so.. What else would it take humanely at less than 100 yrds..? thank you
Matt..
Ps.. Im wondering if it would be good for under 100 yards on stuff mainly like Deer, and Wild Hogs ( boar )... and out of curiousity if it would take elk at less than 100 yrds


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## OneShotOneKill

*Rifled bored shotguns are not shotguns, they are rifles!* A rifled bore 12 gauge has the ability to accurately shoot very tight groups out to 150 yards plus. They are capable of humanly taking any North American animal to include the largest bears so yes Elk are well within reach. I suggest you try various manufactures of sabot slug loads to see what your slug gun likes. You may even try the solid lead slugs just to see if they are good enough out of your gun, but I am sure your gun will be most accurate with the sabot style slugs.

*Shotgun: A smoothbore gun that fires shot over short ranges. *

*Rifles: A firearm with a rifled bore, designed to be fired from the shoulder.*

Have fun,
OneShotOneKill


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## Ryan_Todd

i shoot my deer every year with a smooth bore shotgun with riffled slugs and do just fine. they don't have the greatest distance but they do pack a punch.


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## sdeprie

vb, a 12 ga is a 12 ga. However, manuy states only allow shotgun hunting (which includes rifled shotgun barrels) for deer and other game and it has not been a handicap, except that the ranges do not match high velocity rifles. I have heard of a dear being hit in the chest with a 20 ga foster slug and having it bounce off. However, the sabot slugs do indeed retain velocity and energy and accuracy much better and can stretch your range out to maybe 200 yds. Check the ballistics charts to be sure. Other game that may be taken with your gun and sabot slugs would include black bear, boar, elk and moose within closer range limitations. You have a good deer gun. Enjoy.


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## agrotom

I have a 512 and the first thing I did was put on a scope. This gun will, with the right slug, shoot very well out to 150 - 200 yards!! :sniper: Its a great slug gun with lots of power to kill anything in North America. I use it for Black Bear and Whitetail Deer. It wont let you down, but find the right slug that gives you the kind of performance you want. I like the Breneke type slugs, but the new ones look very good.

Tom


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## OneShotOneKill

12 gauge shotguns are *NOT *all alike; many have different chamber lengths 2 3/4", 3" or 3 1/2". Plus barrel lengths, ported or not ported barrels and chokes. Anyway some states only allow shotguns for big game hunting, but the fact is rifled bore slug guns by definition as explained earlier are rifles! You are certainly legal using these rifled slug guns for hunting where shotguns are only allowed. You will need to try what best shoots out of your gun, don't rely on ballistic charts. Buy different loads and try them all at many ranges. Stick to the sabots type slugs for higher velocity/energy and accuracy. An accurate rifled slug gun with a sabot slug can ethically and humanly harvest any North American big game animal out to 200 yards.

Slugs bouncing off deer just don't happen; try it with your 20 gauge, *HA HA HA!* By the way 20 gauge shotguns are *also NOT *all alike; many have different chamber lengths 2 3/4" or 3". Plus barrel lengths, ported or not ported barrels and chokes.

Have fun and good luck shooting.


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## MossyMO

Ya, and some are wood, and some are synthetic stocks................Geez !!!


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## sdeprie

OSOK, when you don't know what you're talking about, you REALLY don't know. My brother-in-law told me about it. 125 yds walked off, 20 Ga Foster slug, smoothbore, I don't know if it was 2 3/4 or 3". It knocked the deer down, but the deer got back up and ran off. He found the slug somewhat flattened, but no blood or hair on the slug or anywhere around. It probably had a broken rib or 2. He now always uses a 12 ga. In the future, please remember, don't go away mad..... If 12 ga are not all alike, then can you buy a 12 ga shell and put it in any 12 ga gun, as long as the chamber fits?

VB, don't worry about the rest of this. It is more than adequate and is often used as backup for some potentially dangerous game.


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## OneShotOneKill

*sdeprie*,

*125 yards with a 20 gauge smooth bore shotgun using slugs for deer, equals one unethical hunter if he tries to harvest that animal! It's sad to hear he still attempts to hunt, also equally sad you support such conduct in an adult! I guess we all now know what kind of person you really are! Please for all our safety you and your brother in-law just stay home and eat beef!*


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## GooseBuster3

OSOK, you are somthing else :eyeroll:


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## OneShotOneKill

Yes I am thank you GooseBuster3. Have a great day!


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## MossyMO

Does anyone know what Cliff Clavens user ID on this website is?


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## OneShotOneKill

*yes its sdeprie!*


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## sdeprie

OSOK, Don't go away mad.............


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## OneShotOneKill

Read and heed:
http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/members/phpBB/terms.html

Have a great day,
OneShotOneKill


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## Shu

OSOK the comedian - you are unbelievable
uke:


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## OneShotOneKill

vbeamerv,

Are you thinking about putting a scope on it? Have you tried any loads yet?


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## snoopy

After all the BS going back and forth lets get back to the question.

I have killed many deer with bow, rifle, and shotgun. Within 100 to 125 yards a 12 gauge slug is as deadly as anything I've ever seen. Practice alot so that you know your accuracy at each incriment of 25 yards and you will have no problem. They aren't hard to track after you hit one with a 12g slug!


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## Ryan_Todd

my buddy shot a 14 pointer last year with a 20 guage from 180 yards and it dropped stone cold in its tracks. you should do fine with a 12 guage.


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## OneShotOneKill

*Ryan_Todd*

Cool, did the 20 gauge slug gun have a rifled bore? I have shot much big game with slug guns from 20, 16, & 12 gauges and never lost an animal. Slugs have devastating effect.


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## Ryan_Todd

no he was using an old mossberg 20 ga with a bird barrel. he missed on the first shot. so on the second shot he aimed a little higher and hit it right behind the ear. its a nice looking deer.


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## mr.trooper

Um, just my :2cents: , but when i was about 9 years old, i had a friend who hunted deer(white tail) eveory season, and never failed to get one. sometimes does, sometimes bucks. the thing is, he used a .410 rifled slug to get them. he got a 6 pointer this way. He never lost a deer, because he hunted within the limitations of his gun...

you see, i KNOW for a fact that you can drop a buck with a 2 1/2" .410 slug, and some of you guys are trying to say that a .20 ga slug will bounce right off of a deer. The thing is, i KNOW your not speaking the truth, and i dont take kindly to that. Your entitled to your opinion, but you shouldnt present it as fact. if you get close enough, and aim well, then you should be able to take one.

if a 9 year old boy can get close enough to a deer to drop it with a .410, then you older, more experienced hunters should be able to get one with a premium .20 ga slug. Plainsmen ( not shure who it was, but i think it was him...) claimed to take a deer with a .22 hornet by way of a head-shot, and people believed him. a .410 slug has more power than that, and a .20 ga is WAY stronger than that. yet somehow you think its imposible or inhumaine. :roll: I dont like applying the term "humaine" to animals, as they are not human, but are indeed animals. just dont let them suffer. if you hit them with a bad shot, then your responsible for making shure that animal DOES die in as quick a fashion as posible. Its not "unethical" to track down a wounded deer. its unethical to LEAVE a wounded deer.

anyway, back to the topic. People were taking deer with a blunderbuss back in the 1600's. Tell me again why you cant take one with a modern 20 ga. slug?


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## sdeprie

Just to let you know, the whole story about a 20 ga bouncing off, I wasn't there. My brother-in-law told the story, and I am inclined to believe him over some of the writers I have encountered on this thread. Many things could have happened. It might have gotten wet, been a puff load (they DO sometimes happen, even in factory loads), the slug shape may have lost velocity extra fast, or whatever. The whole point is that you should always hunt within the limits of your gun and still not take excessive chances. The accuracy was there, but the energy and penetration wasn't. It happens. But if someone questions my integrity, it will irritate me a lot. I make mistakes, but I don't lie.

Regarding the 410 slug, I also believe it is far more capable than some people give it credit for being. However, every state that I am familiar with does not allow the 410 for hunting deer, making the 20 ga the smallest shotgun size allowed. If it works for you, great. I have heard of some who swear by it for hunting coyotes.

Back to the initial topic. Yes, a 12 ga slugmaster is more than suitable for deer and even larger sized game.


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## mr.trooper

Thanks sdeprie. Not trying to question your integrity, i was actualy aiming that comment at OSOK, since he doesnt believe that a .20 ga slug is capable of ethicaly harvesting a deer :roll:

.410 slugs not legal to be used on deer? thats wierd. in Indana .410s are considered under the law to be high-powered rifles when using slugs, and as thus are legal to use durring rifle season.


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## sdeprie

Mr Trooper, we're cool. Some points: that it is critical to check what is and is not legal where you are. I don't question a 410's ability, just it's legality. I think a 410 is far more adequate than a 25-20, or even a 30 carbine. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. :lol:

As far as frothing, don't waste your time. Frothing is all it will leave you as you certainly have nothing to gain as far as I can see. If there is anyone you are frothing at, I believe most readers have that person's number.


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## OneShotOneKill

*Ryan_Todd*,

Oh he was trying to see if he could hit the deer! Well all I can say is I am glad to hear he connected with the deer's head instead of wounding him!

*mr.trooper,*

That's the whole thing about slug guns you must stay within the limitations of the gun and shooters ability then anyone can harvest big game animals with slugs of any gauge.

Have fun,
OneShotOneKill


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## OneShotOneKill

*mr.trooper*,

Indiana doesn't consider 410 bore shotguns to be high-powered rifles when using slugs, but it's true they are legal for use during Indiana deer season. *The fact is center fire rifles are illegal for deer hunting in Indiana!*

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/huntguide1/hunting1.htm

*Indiana Legal Firearms for deer hunting!*
Shotguns, handguns, muzzleloading long guns and muzzleloading
handguns are legal during the firearms season.
Only muzzleloading firearms are legal during the muzzleloader
season.
Hunters may carry more than one type of firearm in the
field at a time when hunting during the firearms season only
(as long as all firearms are legal for hunting deer). *Shotguns
must be 10-, 12-, 16- or 20-gauge or .410 bore loaded with
slugs or saboted bullets. Rifled slug barrels are permitted.*
*Combination rifle-shotguns are not allowed.*
Muzzleloading firearms must be .44 caliber or larger
loaded with a single bullet of at least .357 caliber. Saboted
bullets are allowed, provided the bullet is .357 caliber or
larger. A muzzleloading firearm must be loaded from the
muzzle. Multiple-barrel muzzleloading long guns are allowed.

*You are correct 410 bore shotguns are not legal for hunting big game in North Dakota!*

http://www.state.nd.us/gnf/licenses/deerguide.html

Deer Gun Season - Centerfire rifles of .22 to .49 caliber and muzzleloading rifles of .45 caliber or larger are legal for deer. Centerfire rifles of .50 caliber or larger using smokeless powder are prohibited. Rifles must have a minimum barrel length of 16 inches. Rifled slugs of 20 gauge or larger are legal for shotguns. Minimum barrel length of shotguns is 18 inches. Handgun (pistol or revolver or single shot) cartridge cases under .40 caliber must be at least 1.285 inches in length and bullets must be at least .257 inches in diameter. Handgun cartridge cases of .40 caliber or larger must be at least .992 inches in length. Muzzleloading handguns must be .50 caliber or larger. In addition, any centerfire handgun designed to fire a legal rifle cartridge shall be legal, except .38 S&W Special and 9mm Luger. All legal bow equipment as listed earlier in the deer bow season section shall be legal during the deer gun season. Fully automatic weapons, full metal jacketed bullets, or altered projectiles are prohibited.

http://www.state.nd.us/gnf/licenses/pronghorn.html

Gun Season - Centerfire rifles of .22 to .49 caliber and muzzleloading rifles of .45 caliber or larger are legal for pronghorn. Centerfire rifles of .50 caliber or larger using smokeless powder are prohibited. Rifles must have a minimum barrel length of 16 inches. Rifled slugs of 20 gauge or larger are legal for shotguns. Minimum barrel length of shotguns is 18 inches. Handgun (pistol, revolver or single shot) cartridge cases under .40 caliber must be at least 1.285 inches in length and bullets must be at least .257 inches in diameter. Handgun cartridge cases of .40 caliber or larger must be at least .992 inches in length. Muzzleloading handguns must be .50 caliber or larger. In addition, any centerfire handgun designed to fire a legal rifle cartridge shall be legal, except .38 Smith and Wesson Special and 9mm Luger. All legal bow equipment as listed above in the bow season section shall be legal during the pronghorn gun season. Fully automatic weapons, full metal jacketed bullets, or altered projectiles are prohibited.

http://www.state.nd.us/gnf/licenses/bighorn.html

Legal Firearms - Center-fire rifles of .25 caliber or larger are legal for elk and moose while .243/6 mm caliber is the minimum allowed for bighorn sheep. Centerfire rifles of .50 caliber or larger using smokeless powder are prohibited. Muzzleloading rifles or single shot muzzleloading pistols of .50 caliber or larger are legal for all three species. Rifles must have a minimum barrel length of 16 inches. Rifled slugs of 20 gauge or larger are legal for shotguns. Minimum barrel length of shotguns is 18 inches. Handgun (pistol, revolver or single shot) cartridge cases under .40 caliber must be at least 1.285 inches in length and bullets must be at least .257 inches in diameter. Handgun cartridge cases of .40 caliber or larger must be at least .992 inches in length. In addition, any handgun designed to fire a legal rifle cartridge is legal. Fully automatic weapons and full metal jacketed bullets or altered projectiles are prohibited.


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## mr.trooper

Um.......sorry to get off topic again but....

"The fact is rifles and slug guns using rifled barrels are illegal for deer hunting in Indiana...

Shotguns 
must be 10-, 12-, 16- or 20-gauge or .410 bore loaded with 
slugs or saboted bullets. Rifled slug barrels are permitted"

so let me get this strait, Slug guns are illegal, but shotguns with rifled barrels, and using slugs are legal. :-? Who told you this OSOK? it realy doesnt make any sence. Am i the only one that thinks these tw lines contredicted each other? AND WHERE IN TARNATION DID YOU GET THAT RIFLES ARE ILLEGAL TO HUNT DEER WITH? thats just plain stupid. sorry, but it is. Our DNR guys said it was fine to hunt with a slug gun, and i know for a fact that almost 90% of Indiana hunters use rifles for deer....And my dad was a registered gun dealer for years, so he knows about these kinds of regulations. he told me that .410 was considered a rifle if useing slugs, and my friends whom used them told me that same thing...


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## mr.trooper

Also:

"No license is required to possess a RIFLE, shotgun or muzzle-loading firearm (including muzzleloading handguns). You must have a permit to carry and/or hunt with a handgun. Landowners may hunt on their own property without a handgun permit. It is illegal to carry a concealed handgun while hunting. It is illegal to carry a handgun while hunting turkey or while hunting deer outside of the season in which handguns are legal equipment for deer hunting."( taken of of the IN.gov DNR sight you convieniently linked to...)

So you dont need a permit to hunt with a rifle...wouldnt this imply that rifles are legal to use for hunting? im just asking. its not like im trying to prove you wrong or anything. im just asking. The chunk of text you mentioned does not specificaly mention rifles, but nowhere does it say that rifles are illegal for deer. like i said, eveoryone i Indiana uses rifles for deer, including the DNR guys. Im sorry OSOK, but your not guna be able to Pretend your way trough this one. I KNOW MORE ABOUT THE HUNTING REGULATIONS IN MY STATE THAN YOU DO. sorry, thats just the wa the cookie crumbles.


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## sdeprie

Mr Trooper, you should know by now that there are a limited of readers/writers who know more about ANY subject than you, including the hunting laws in your own state. Please, don't feed the troll.


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## mr.trooper

Your right i gota stop getti'n so steamed up over OSOKS garbage. thats exactly what he wants me to do. Thanks for puting things in perspective.


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## Ryan_Todd

OSOK wouldn't take a longer shot than you would like to a trophy deer. and he wasn't trying to see if he could hit it. he was trying to kill it to put it on the wall. hiting in the head was just dumb luck.


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## Plainsman

Mr trooper

Take it as a badge of honor. If you know what you are talking about you most assuredly will be attacked by authority wana be types. Legends in their own mind.


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## DeltaBoy

Like many of you, I grew up slug hunting. Now I get to try rifle hunting. I am finding that it's a whole new ball game. What I enjoyed most about hunting with slugs all my kill shots were very close. I found it similar to bow hunting.

Or it's kind of like throwing shot put... :lol:


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## Gary

I have monitored this site for some time but never registered till now. When I was young we lived NW of VC a ways. Come Oct. 6 I will have been a Conservation Officer in Indiana for 30 years. It is legal to use slug guns with rifled barrels in Indiana and illegal to use rifles.


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## sdeprie

Well, there you go. If he don't know, don't nobody know. 410? I'd like to ask the REAL expert, thanks. And if I wanted to read the site, I'd go there myself, thanks.


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## Gary

A clarification- A .410 is not considered a rifle in Indiana when using slugs for deer hunting. A rifle is illegal to deer hunt with in Indiana.


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## sdeprie

Thanks, my son might need to know this. He lives in Indianapolis. Then again, maybe not, he has never deer hunted. Some squirrel, etc, when he was younger, but he's to sophisticated, now. :x


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## mr.trooper

realy? its illegal to use a rifle to hunt deer? perhaps you could shed some light as to why? Perhaps all the people i know that use rifles go out of state. Why doesnt the website list rifles as being illegal for deer? they list examples of illegal handguns, why not longguns also?

What about other game, like Coyotes Racoons, Fox, Rabit, Squirel ect. do you have to use a shotgun for those also?

whell im not afraid to admit i was wrong so, i was wrong.

*Crosses Reminton 7400 of wish-list and replaces it with Browning 10.ga Stalker.*


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## Gary

I would guess rifles are not allowed because of the close proximity of houses throughout most of the state. On the other hand though you can use a pistol that is .243 or larger and has a case length of 1.16 inches. Does not make sense to me. The only things you cannot use a rifle for are deer, waterfowl, turkeys, and frogs (.22 birdshot is OK.)


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## dlip

you are makin yourself look real silly osok


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## mr.trooper

So, the reason i cant shoot deer with a rifle on a 20,000+ acre public hunting ground is because the houses are to close together.....good thing im planning on moving to Montana....and if they wont let me use a rifle for deer, im guna scream. :eyeroll:

*sigh, at least i can still use the rifles for Yotes, *****, and foxes. (6.5x55 to the head for the Yotes)


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## OneShotOneKill

*mr.trooper,*

You know more about Indiana legal deer hunting firearms, I disagree with you! You really need to stop by your local game & fish and ask lots of deer hunting questions bring a notebook and pen, plus closely study Indiana's website.

*Center fire rifles are illegal for deer hunting in Indiana!*

http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/huntguide1/hunting1.htm

The statement below was taken from Indiana's game & fish website, but please read carefully!

*Indiana Legal Firearms for deer hunting! *
Shotguns, handguns, muzzleloading long guns and muzzleloading 
handguns are legal during the firearms season. 
Only muzzleloading firearms are legal during the muzzleloader 
season. 
Hunters may carry more than one type of firearm in the 
field at a time when hunting during the firearms season only 
(as long as all firearms are legal for hunting deer). Shotguns 
must be 10-, 12-, 16- or 20-gauge or .410 bore loaded with 
slugs or saboted bullets. Rifled slug barrels are permitted. 
Combination rifle-shotguns are not allowed. 
Muzzleloading firearms must be .44 caliber or larger 
loaded with a single bullet of at least .357 caliber. Saboted 
bullets are allowed, provided the bullet is .357 caliber or 
larger. A muzzleloading firearm must be loaded from the 
muzzle. Multiple-barrel muzzleloading long guns are allowed.


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## sdeprie

Gary, most of these guys will be appalled by that restriction. I grew up in Il, and lived for 8 years in Ia, so I'm mostly used to this idea. Now, I'm in NC and really enjoy being able to use a rifle, but could go back to a shotgun in a heartbeat. There are some monster deer in both Il and Ia, and I assume you have some pretty good ones in In as well, and these are taken every year without rifles. There is no doubt it can be done. But, oh, on some of those beanfields, a rifle would sure come in handy, EH? (IF it were legal.)


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## mr.trooper

OSOK, do you read other post before your start spouting off? If you did, you would see that i already addmited that i was wrong. its right out there in the open for eveoryone to see. ( i dont try and cover up my stupidity as you do, and then claim it to be "expert advice")

I guess i just ook it for granted that since virtualy eveory hunter i know uses a rifle for deer, that it was legal. Especiay since those particualar people are verry carefull to follow all other laws.

Try and follow me here.....i just dont get it....the reason i cant use a rifle on deer s because the houses are to close together, but i can use a rifle to shoot a coyote on the same hunting grounds and it is legal. So aparently the same bullet passing through a smaller, less massive animal is less dangerous to bystndards.....even though its retained more of its sape and is traveling faster...... :roll:


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## OneShotOneKill

*mr.trooper,*

I don't know, but I'd move to a state that allows center fire rifles for big game! I don't read certain posts it depends on whose responses it is, so I automatically skip a lot of them! I stated that center fire rifles are illegal before everyone else, but you didn't read the Indiana game & fish website!


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## mr.trooper

Yea, i read the website, and have read the laws many times. i think that iv just been miss-interpreting them untill now... the thing is, they post examples of illegal andguns, but not illegal longguns. Also, that same webiste states that: "No license is required to possess a RIFLE, shotgun or muzzle-loading firearm (including muzzleloading handguns). You must have a permit to carry and/or hunt with a handgun. Landowners may hunt on their own property without a handgun permit. It is illegal to carry a concealed handgun while hunting. It is illegal to carry a handgun while hunting turkey or while hunting deer outside of the season in which handguns are legal equipment for deer hunting"

Thus, since they Said that "no liscense is required to posses a rifle..." in a paragraph about deer hunting, and never expressly stated that rifles were illegal, i assumed that they were lawfull to use...

I E-mailed the DNR with these exact words:

"Is il legal to hunt deer with a rifle in Indiana?"

and the responce ( cut and pasted from there website...) i got back was:

"Indiana Legal Firearms for deer hunting:

Shotguns, handguns, muzzleloading long guns and muzzleloading 
handguns are legal during the firearms season. 
Only muzzleloading firearms are legal during the muzzleloader 
season. 
Hunters may carry more than one type of firearm in the 
field at a time when hunting during the firearms season only 
(as long as all firearms are legal for hunting deer).

So basiclay, i asked them for clarification on the article, and they just sent the same vuage paragraph back to me.

Admitadly, im not a real big hunter. more like a gun enthuseist that is interested in hunting. Iv hunted squirel and Yotes before, and thats it, and rifles are legal for that.

Also, i think OSOK and I have come to soemthing resembling a peacefull conclusion? thats new. And im sorry to say, that even though i think OSOKs ideas are idiotic and un-realistic, that he is probably still a good guy *CRINGE*


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## Gary

The license to possess is refering to the handgun permit you must have in Indiana to possess a handgun off of your property. It is saying you do not need that permit for a shotgun, rifle, or muzzleloader. I believe Indiana has never allowed rifles to hunt deer since deer hunting was resumed in the 50's. I know they have not allowed rifles for the last 30 years. No one told me the reason behind it. I said I would guess it was because of the close proximity of houses throughout much of Indiana. I have many fond memories of growing up in the wide open spaces of No. Dak. Still have relatives in the Valley City area.


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## OneShotOneKill

*mr.trooper,*

*There isn't anything vague about Indiana's legal hunting firearms for deer hunting! They don't list rifles as legal firearms for deer hunting, which tells you they are illegal! Plus they state that combination rifle-shotguns are not allowed, so they do say rifles are illegal in that statement!*

*Indiana Legal Firearms for deer hunting! *
Shotguns, handguns, muzzleloading long guns and muzzleloading 
handguns are legal during the firearms season. 
Only muzzleloading firearms are legal during the muzzleloader 
season. 
Hunters may carry more than one type of firearm in the 
field at a time when hunting during the firearms season only 
(as long as all firearms are legal for hunting deer). Shotguns 
must be 10-, 12-, 16- or 20-gauge or .410 bore loaded with 
slugs or saboted bullets. Rifled slug barrels are permitted. 
*Combination rifle-shotguns are not allowed. *
Muzzleloading firearms must be .44 caliber or larger 
loaded with a single bullet of at least .357 caliber. Saboted 
bullets are allowed, provided the bullet is .357 caliber or 
larger. A muzzleloading firearm must be loaded from the 
muzzle. Multiple-barrel muzzleloading long guns are allowed.


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## mr.trooper

Again, thank you for spouting off OSOK. That conclusion was arived at quite a while ago. You can drop it now. realy, its ok. your a sore looser, but its becoming quite evident that your an even worse winner. 
:eyeroll:


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## OneShotOneKill

*mr.trooper,*

I am just here to help! I didn't want anyone else from Indiana reading your posts and getting into trouble with the law!

Your welcome,
OneShotOneKill


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