# ...On Possession



## born to hunt (Mar 13, 2002)

Hi all-

I had an interesting conversation with the Dept of game and Fish yesterday on possession of ducks and geese. I just returned from a week in central ND and we had a great time with some success, and ran into full possession after three days of hunting. The enforcement officer told me I can legally ship my possession limit to my home in MN, then continue to harvest birds over the course of my trip, provided I did not exceed my daily limit or possession limit in the field. I found this interesting, as I thought my home freezer (though it it out of state) can be counted toward my possession. I then asked If I could do this twice, if we were lucky enough to get 4 days worth of ducks, she said yes.

Now, I have a wife and 6 kids at home and we clearly use the birds responsibly. But does that mean, if i hunted ND for three weeks, I could have 72 ducks at home in my freezer, legally? Sorry if this has been covered before, but I'd like someone to confirm or refute what I just learned.

thanks

bob


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## wingaddict (Sep 16, 2009)

Cant hunt for three weeks as a NR in ND. :wink: From what I've been told by FEDERAL wardens is that the birds in your freezer count towards your possession limit. However its rarely enforced.


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## born to hunt (Mar 13, 2002)

I think I can hunt for 4....2 weeks for pheasants and two for waterfowl. If I had enough money, vacation time and time granted from my bride.. I see your point though.

Technically, can one gift a possession to the wife and kids or no?


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## H2OfowlND (Feb 10, 2003)

Waterfowl are a Federal issue, and they follow you wherever you go. You need to talk to a warden and not someone in the office at the G&F. Or talk to the USF&W service and have them explain it to you. 
This is why ND needs a tag system to keep guys honest.

H2OfowlND


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

born to hunt said:


> I think I can hunt for 4....2 weeks for pheasants and two for waterfowl. If I had enough money, vacation time and time granted from my bride.. I see your point though.
> 
> Technically, can one gift a possession to the wife and kids or no?


You can hunt the entire pheasant seaon.Just buy another license every 2 weeks.Waterfowl.....only 2 weeks.


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## sdmallardmasher (Sep 15, 2008)

You can legally gift a possession limit of birds to every member of your family as long as they are a permanent resident of the house.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

> "Possession Limit for Waterfowl and Migratory Game Birds" means the maximum number of migratory game birds of a single species or a combination of species permitted to be possessed by any one person when lawfully taken in the United States in any one specified geographic area (typically a state, Indian reservation or a hunting unit or zone within a state) for which a possession limit is prescribed.





> Game may be gifted to another, however, nothing allows a person to exceed a daily limit. Any gifted game to be transported must be tagged with the above information and display sex and species identification as required. Termination of possession can only be accomplished by: (1) Gifting of legally harvested game, (2) by consuming the game.
> 
> No one may possess, store, transport or ship at any one time more than a possession limit of migratory game birds. No person shall ship migratory game birds unless the package is marked on the outside with: (1) the name and address of the person sending the birds, (2) the name and address of the person to whom the birds are being sent, and (3) the number of each species contained in the package. No person shall put or leave any game birds at any place unless the birds are tagged by the hunter with the following information: the hunter's signature and address, date taken, number and species of such birds, and small game or waterfowl license number. The above tag is required if the birds have been left by the hunter for cleaning, storage (including temporary storage), shipment or taxidermy services. No person shall transport migratory game birds belonging to another person unless such birds are tagged as required. Passengers in a vehicle that is transporting their birds are not required to tag their birds.


Both quotes are from the waterfowl proclamation. The first one is from the "definitions" portion and to me seems to be confusing and possibly contradictory to the second. Note the termination of possession clause. It WOULD seem that gifting birds to your spouse, children or parents would allow you to continue to ship multiple possession limits.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

To me, this is why there are so many upset residents in this state. People are looking at ways to absolutley shoot the most birds possible!! SHoot the **** out of the birds and kill, kill, kill. Instead of trying to skirt the laws or stay on the edge of being legal, why not just enjoy the season and enjoy the hunt instead of feeling like you have to gouge the **** out of a resource. I just don't get it!!!??? :eyeroll: 
Tags would be awesome, wish we used them for pheasants and ducks!!!!!!


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## born to hunt (Mar 13, 2002)

Dj-

Perfect opportunity to jump on a NR versus work toward clarification of a legitimate question. I never exceeded a daily or possession limit. The rules are unclear.

The fact that two different departments say two different things was the concern. Put the res/nonres issue where it belongs...where the sun don't shine. uke:

I would like to be able to hunt agian with my 8 y.o. son...I just want to see if I can do that legally. :beer:

thanks

bob


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

This isn't an NR thing, as there obviously are residents who would abuse the resources if given the opportunity.

I do find it amusing, however, that topics like this come up so frequently. People always are wondering how they can shoot more birds than their possession.

Can I process the birds during the hunt and still kill more birds?

What if I ship them to a friend out of state?

What if I gift them to the farmer, who then holds them, and then I get them at a later date?

I know! I'll bury them in a box in a field like a Time Capsule and come back once I've eaten the birds in my possession!

Let me put it bluntly: if you really have to look for "technicalities" to shoot more birds, you're being selfish. People always are looking for the gray area. Shoot two daily limits and call it quits. Or eat ducks until you're $hittin' feathers and keep hunting. I mean, honestly, gifting to your immediate family?! Legal or not, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

"Officer, what do you mean I'm over my limit of ducks? Oh those you're talking about? Well they're not mine, I gifted them to my dog, Ralph, but he's not allowed to eat waterfowl, so he said I could eat them for him. What a good boy!"

born to hunt, I'm not trying to put you down or anything so I hope you take what I wrote with a grain of salt. But would you HONESTLY feel right about shipping birds home, gifting them to your wife and kids, and then proceeding to shoot more birds? Even if it were "technically" legal, would you feel RIGHT doing it? I don't know about you, but personally that just wouldn't sit well with me...


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## wingaddict (Sep 16, 2009)

djleye, made a pretty valid point. Seems that all these "can I have? or how do I?" questions come from NRs looking for ways to stay under the limits. aka be able to shoot more birds.

Seems to me like he made a valid point.


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## born to hunt (Mar 13, 2002)

I hear what you are saying...thanks for saying it kindly. I feel you are making some poor assumptions. I don't waste birds. I don't want to break the law. My work situation allows me to hunt one week out of the fall. I'd like to get as many ducks as I can, legally. What you are suggesting, though, is selfish also...Say you have the luxury of hunting every weekend...you can shoot 100+ ducks in a year if you have the proclivity to do so. How does that make me selfish if I enjoy eating ducks that are legally harvested, I just get mine within a different time period, legally?

So what we should do is just shoot twelve ducks (one possession) and hang up the shotgun for the year, right? Tags, then are the perfect solution. One gets to shoot 12 ducks a year and you are done, wanting to get anymore is hoggish and selfish. Using your reasoning, suggesting otherwise is disingenuous.

I don't feel bad about it because I know I will be less hard on the resource than those who hunt every weekend and shoot more. Besides, I'm not very good at it anyway, in fact I may never get another one again based on my skill level...But I sure like eating them.

My original question has not really been addressed, in that the law seems to say two different things at once. I would be interested to gauge the support level of all on this forum to be issued 12 duck tags a year and have to quit. Based on HIP data, many would not seem to support it. Food for thought.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm not assuming anything, and if you think I'm being disingenuous, I apologize.

Just because I have the ability to hunt every weekend of the fall season, doesn't mean I'm held to different standards than a non resident. I still have to eat the ducks in my possession before I can kill more ducks, and at the rate we eat ducks, you have nothing to worry about...I'm not going to kill all the ducks before you get another crack at them. Besides, I've yet to get a possession this season, so you've already done a better job in the week you were out than in the times I've been out.

I don't think there's a need for tagging waterfowl, but I would like there to be clear-cut clarification on regulations so we quit getting questions like this. Not that I'm annoyed by the question, mind you, but that there should be no doubt as to what the rules are. The simple fact that this type of topic is brought up so frequently proves the laws are not very concise.

If it were up to me, the possession would be twice the daily limit and we could leave it at that. No gifting (especially to immediate relatives), no processing of meat, nothing. Shoot your possession and eat some or quit hunting. That would keep things simple and we could quit discussing it.

Of course, there would always be slobs who'd find every possible way to shoot more birds, but without the gray area, we could cut down on confusion.

born to hunt, I'm glad you enjoy eating waterfowl so much. I do too, but I also LOVE ruffed grouse. I hunt Minnesota about once a year for those delicacies, and seldom do I get my possession limit (dang bent barrel!). But if by some grace of God I were suddenly bequeathed with a deadeye aim and hit every grouse I shot at, would you be OK with me shipping off my possession limit back home to my wife so I could continue hunting and shoot another limit? Granted, we're talking about small game, so the legalities are different, but still the question remains: Does that scenario sit well with you?


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## born to hunt (Mar 13, 2002)

Clearly agreed! We need clarification on the rules.

My reply may surprise you...If you were to hunt grouse in MN and eat your 5 everyday (provided you were fortunate enough to get them) versus sending them home and eating them at another time, that would be fine with me. Either way would. The resource is depleted numerically the same. There are more resident hunters that are harder on the birds over time, generally speaking. If the resource gets depleted, decrease the total limit by issuing tags. I'll leave that up to the experts who establish the rules.

I am happy either way, by the way. I always adopt the conservative version of the law. However, the person at game and fish surprised me when she stated that possession does not count in your freezer. That just seemed strange. Hence, the need for absolute clarity, lest someone jump through a loophole. If i can legally do that, I'd like to be able to try.

I do have say that ruffed grouse are the best table fare. I was surprised to find out that huns are a close second though.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

Interesting...I guess you do make a point. I probably could eat five grouse a day...though I'd likely need some antacids and a bottle of Pepto close at hand :wink:

I have no qualms if someone eats a limit of ducks every day while they're up here. That takes much more gastronomical fortitude than I possess, so more power to them. Where I see the line crossed is the whole "gifting" part. Of course, there are a myriad of scenarios (i.e. give a couple to a farmer to thank him for allowing you on his land) but it all comes down to intent. You say you like to eat the birds, so you probably don't fit into this. I guess if you're sending them home to eat them, that's a bit of a lesser sting (though the whole gifting to an immediate family members just is not right in my mind...I can't wrap my head around that no matter how it's spun).

Where I get peeved is at the people who want nothing to do but shoot more, and more, and more birds. It's greed, plain and simple. They'll gift a limit every day just so they can get out and kill more ducks. That sickens me, and is a complete disrespect and abuse of the resources.

As I think about it, the scenario of sending birds home as "gifts" to the wife and kids, whether your intent is good or not, still seems unfair. Let's face it: a person who does this can have more than their possession limit of birds. What about the single guy who is by himself? He's still held to a two-daily possession limit, but because you have a wife and kids, you can shoot more birds. Is that fair?


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## born to hunt (Mar 13, 2002)

Exactly. I have 5 kids and another due in two weeks  so technically i could gift the entire central flyway to my family...which is stupid. That's why someone who does not have the same moral compass as I do could really do some damage. We need more clarity.

For the people who just like to shoot stuff to kill it, give them a box of trap loads and park them over a sunflower field and shoot blackbirds....I have no time for wanton waste of game birds.

As for the single guy...marriage is a blast fi you keep it holy, and kids are more of an adventure.... he can gift his birds to my kids, cuz Lord know's how I'm gonna feed them all :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Bad humor...


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Keepin mind that when those with the power calculate and set limits they are pretty liberal. They can be because time has proven that most hunters will not fill their limit on a daily basis. Looking at the harvest stats bears this out. Often the actual harvest is far below what limits are set at. I can recall seeing where the average harvest (in ND) of a bird like ruffed grouse was between 1and 3 birds per year. That is far below the posession limit of 12.

The solution might be to reduce the daily limit but increase the posession limit. With ducks you could cut the daily limit to 5 and increase the possession limit to 15 (3 days worth). Taking 1 off the daily limit is not a significant impact to the hunter and adding 3 to the possession limit should not have a significant impact on overal populations. The fact is on a week long hunt the vast majority of hunters are rarely going to limit every day. The extra 3 on the posession limit is often going to mean and extra 1-2 days afield.

With me and I'm sure many others it is not about the limits it is about the opportunities and time afield. If I go on a week long (7 day) hunt I want to be able to hunt the whole week. If I fill out in 2 days I miss out on 5 days of recreational time. One could place limits on themself but the way things are you would have to limit yourself to about 2 ducks a day. How many guys here would even go out if they knew they were limited to that.


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## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

Whether it was mailed home or dropped off directly, I am sure no hunters on this site (resident or non resident) has over their possession limit in their freezer. :eyeroll:


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

Gooseguy10 said:


> Whether it was mailed home or dropped off directly, I am sure no hunters on this site (resident or non resident) has over their possession limit in their freezer. :eyeroll:


So what are you trying to say? Because someone might not follow the rules of possession, the law doesn't matter?

Dakotashooter2's post somewhat eludes to a "moral compass," in that, if one wants to enjoy resources for an extended amount of time, they should implement their own personal limitations. This goes hand-in-hand with following the letter of the law, regardless if the hunter next door is or is not.

In that case, whether any "hunter on this site...has over their possession limit in their freezer," shouldn't amount to a hill of beans. Forget about them and worry about yourself.


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## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

I really don't care what other people do......I am a big believer in the idea of worry about yourself. I am also a believer in the idea of not letting your rights trump your responsibility as a citizen (hunter).

However, as some have pointed out that they are sick of NR coming to the Dakotas and shooting everything and trying to find ways to shoot more. In this case mailing it home. How is this different than a local person shooting a limit (or catching a limit in MN) and filling the freezer past possession limits? And (note the sarcasm here), I am sure everyone on this site eats everything they shoot before heading back to the field/waterways. Regardless of where you live that is a violation of law and/or ethics but yet the mailing issue is just another example of a NR game hog. That was my point.

Again, to each their own


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## born to hunt (Mar 13, 2002)

I like the idea of mailing if you are travelling across 16 states, and you can afford it, and you are legal. The law is just too unclear at this point on possession.

Bureaucrats making laws they neither follow nor comprehend.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

born to hunt said:


> Bureaucrats making laws they neither follow nor comprehend.


I concur :wink:


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## proagr465 (Nov 18, 2006)

The law is simple in, IMO, the only way to get birds out of your possession (legally) is to give them away or eat them. Now the person that you are giving birds to does not have to have a hunting license but still has to abide by possession law as well. With that said, sometimes trying to give a duck or goose (even cleaned and processed) to someone is like trying to give away a glass of saltwater.


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## PHIGS (Sep 16, 2010)

once you reach your possession limit, just toss whatever is over, into the ditch. Coyotes gotta eat too... :thumb:


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## kill4funnotfood (Nov 20, 2010)

PHIGS said:


> once you reach your possession limit, just toss whatever is over, into the ditch. Coyotes gotta eat too... :thumb:


X2shoot and release


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