# To late to put on an ecollar



## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

I have a lab about 1 1/2 yrs old. At times he is very skiddish about his hunting ability, meaning i don't know how he would act with forced obedience. He is a great hunter when left to do his own thing, but i have trouble contolling his range and retrieve. I have spent alot of time training him, but he has some behaviors i don't think i can correct w/o forcing him. I have tried using a check cord, but then he won't hunt. Do you think it would be ok to try out an ecollar or is this going to turn him off altogether in the field?


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

It's still a pup, just keep it simple and don't judge or compare your dog to other peoples dogs.


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## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

Ya that is where i am on the fence. I know he is young, but i don't want him to have these problems 5 yrs down the road.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I know what you are saying but a dog doesn't really mature until they are 5 or so. Take your time, work with it every day of the year and you will see results as your dog figures out how to hunt with a human partner.

The easiest dog I ever had the pleasure of working with was 1/4 wolf, she had the strongest pack hunting instinct I have ever seen in a dog. She would always flush the birds at me instead of away, she new the gun was her best friend at 1 year old. She was really good at shelter belts as she would work the opposite side and just a little ahead so the birds would always flush out my side, then she would come over and make blind retrieves every time all by the time she was one year old. Some body noticed my great hunting partner and stole her out of the dog fence.


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

A dog can become a competent hunter long before their 5th birthday and still hunt with style and enthusiasm.

I would recommend careful use of a collar. They are especially useful for range issues with an upland flusher.

Best recommendation is to take lessons from a local pro trainer in your area on how to use the collar.

Second best is to order "Smartwork" from www.rushcreekpress.com 
or the Total Collar Conditioning video from Mike Lardy's website www.totalretriever.com

The smartwork is more comprehensive and will go into force fetch and handling as well as the collar while the video is soley devoted to collar conditioning.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I agree they can do many things before they are 5 and most do, but that doesn't change the fact they are not fully mature until around 5.

Every dog is different just like people are, some babies walk at 9 months some walk at 18 months but for Gods sake don't shock or shake your babies for being different than some.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Go one more season before you make the decision.

Then get a second opinion form and experienced trainer about whatever you think his issues are.

Be consistant and patient, and he will probably be fine most dogs mature around 3 and have a big change in personality


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I disagree Bob, in nature it takes most of 5 years for mammals to mature mentally and physically. Sure they can act very obedient but obedience is much different than smarts. I suppose it depends on your personal definition of mature. 

Just for an example....Is a three year old deer mature or is a five year old deer mature?  Is the leader of a wolf pack a seasoned veteran or a pup?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

From a training point of view they are mentally mature at three, atleast thats where I see them begin to act like they have a brain. :lol:

I expect a three year old dog to behave itself most of the time anything younger and I consider it puppy silliness and overlook most of it.

But I have no argument with what you said. I think your correct the matureing process is complete by 5. Its also when they seem to peak physically.

The age any other animal matures is irrevelant though, they are all different.

I suppose there are some dogs that mature earlier than others just like people.

I wonder if female dogs mature earlier than males, like female humans.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

IMO they do mature earlier Bob and you know what they are called for the rest of their lives, some even live up to it. :lol:

You might be surprised how little the differences are in the four legged mammal world, excluding the pachyderm. :lol:


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Long ago I was told that if a guy can't train a gundog without an ecollar, he can't train one with it. The ecollar is a good tool, but it won't do you any good if the dog doesn't have rock solid OB and the level of training to understand how to turn off training pressure.

We just addressed a question similar to this on another post, but here goes again. My first question is, are you following a training program, and if so, which one? If not, forget the ecollar, get a program, and start from scratch. Don't skip steps, don't be in a hurry, and don't start the next task until your dog has the last down pat.

By doing this, you will not only prepare your pup for collar conditioning, you will also almost certainly smooth out the unspecified problems you mentioned.

It all comes back to rock solid formal OB. Without it, you won't get anywhere. When I run into a training problem, I go back and revisit the closest corresponding OB.

Also, you might want to consult a pro trainer. I recommend Mark Jansma who runs **** River Kennels in Sac City, IA. www.coonriverkennels.com He's a great guy and will be more than happy to answer your questions...

BTW, I recommend Evan Graham's Smartwork For Retrievers augmented by John & Amy Dahl's 10 Minute Retriever for your program...


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## Britman (Dec 18, 2002)

Terminator hit it on the head, you can't train a dog with the e-collar you can only re-enforce what they already know.


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Yip, Terminator - all you do is give great advise.

P.S. - I have watched Mark Jansma's dogs run at a few hunt tests. He is defenitely a great source of information.

Also agree about the "Smart Works" program by Evan Graham.

P.S. Evan Graham will be in Fargo, ND this summer for a 2 day, hands on, dog training seminar. see the following link for more details:

www.ndrc.org/otherevents.htm


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Thanks Hydro. I learned under Mark's wing, and we've hunted together a number of times. We've become close friends and I've picked his brain so badly over the last several years, I doubt he can do double digit math!!!!

I've never hunted with Evan, but he has been right there with an answer any time I had a question.

A gundog trainer/student could do a lot worse than having been mentored by these guys...

I'm hoping to attend Evan's seminar, but as that is the Devils Run weekend I may be out of luck...


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