# Thoughts on all of the Trump stuff....



## Chuck Smith

Just curious on peoples thoughts about everything that has happened this past week.

1. Manfort 8 out of 18 charges?
2. Cohen plea deal?

1. This one will be interesting. So far all he has been found guilt of is Tax fraud, bank frauds/lying (with one not disclosing a foreign account). So no collusion or anything linked back to Trump. As of yet.

2. Again... all bank or tax frauds. So far.... the one interesting one is campaign issue with the money paid to Stormy. This one needs to play out to see anything.

So far the Mueller investigation isn't turning up collusion but more tax cheats than anything. Which is good. It is also showing how Trump wanted to drain the swamp but surrounded himself with lagoon creatures...  

But again we need to see how all this plays out. I am going to attack the media, because the same day all of this came out they are screaming IMPEACH, SMOKING GUN, TRUMP IS DONE, ETC. Yet so far showing Cohen doesn't know of any collusion (so far to our knowledge). It is more in-line with the Stormy issue. Which could have broke campaign finance laws. Just depends where the money came from. Which again we need to wait and see.

So my take on all of this new stuff coming to light is this:

1. Trump didn't drain the swamp... Mueller is with his findings.
2. Mueller isn't finding any collusion anywhere just tax cheats!
3. SO FAR... Nothing has shown Trump did any collusion or anything illegal... but again wait and see (campaign finance).
4. The media is blowing it all out of proportion until midterms to help swing an election. But this is nothing new.

Other thoughts or insights???


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## 6162rk

RE-ELECTED DONALD TRUMP

That's my thought


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## southdakbearfan

I think they probably have him and the only way he will avoid wearing stripes is if Pence pardons him.

The hush payments were to aid the campaign by keeping info from coming out, therefore fall into illegal campaign contributions because of their amount and that is was not disclosed. This also puts it into the obstruction of justice field as they tried to cover the payments up. Cohen claims to have proof it was under order from Trump that it was done so it's on him if that proves to be true. Obstruction of justice is exactly what Clinton was brought up on, for screwing the intern then lieing and covering up evidence. Nixon was impeached for the exact same thing, as they destroyed the evidence of the Watergate break in. If it proves to be true along with any hint of improper contacts/collusion he is seriously screwed.

Omarosa seems to have a never ending supply of videotapes of all this and I wouldn't doubt if Cohen didn't have them too.

I think it's the tip of the iceberg and if there wasn't a heck of a lot more Mueller wouldn't be allowing this to come out. I also think it's strategy to get Trump to incriminate himself even further as he can't seem to help himself or stay off twitter.

Trump has always been a slimball, cheating contractors, cheating on wives, screwing over business partners, it isn't like he changed his stripes.

As a life long republican I am ashamed of my party for nominating such an idiot during such a winnable election with other more acceptable candidates that could have beaten Hillary as well (I think Hillary was the easiest Dem to beat since the Reagan elections and if they ran Kasich or someone else it would have been a landslide). Regardless if he has had some good ideas, which he most definitely has, he is a temper tantrum waiting to happen at any moment and fully unsuited to be in the position he is in. The party sold itself to the devil to win.

He won't fire Sessions because of the outcry from the public and congress.

He won't pardon Manafort or Cohen because then they loose the pleading the 5th privilege so then they run the risk of potentially lieing under oath and getting caught at that or spilling the beans. This is the tell tale sign, if Trump pardons them then maybe it is all nothing. If he doesn't then I think it's a pretty easy conclusion that he can't risk it. Cohen has already flipped, one guy flipping to get out of some of his sentence is more easily passed off as BS than if two or more do it.

Cohen seems to be out to fry his former boss because his boss hosed him and left him to the wolves.

The national enquirer dude just got immunity to give up the stories that Trump paid hush money on.

We will see how long Manafort sits in prison before he is willing to flip as well.

It's all speculation, but that's my thoughts.


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## KEN W

All of the above. Now add on Pecker from Nat'l Enquirer who has immunity,must have evidence on his buddy Trump. Pecker has known Trump since the 80's. H must have a lot to say and feels he could be prosecuted to ask for immunity.

We will see a lot more from Mueller. I believe he is just getting started. The Whitehouse isn't a swamp anymore, it's turning into a lagoon and the crap is starting to overflow the banks. Trumps big mouth will sink him.

Will he fire Sessions for doing his job? Probably not until after the elections in Nov.


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## Plainsman

> Will he fire Sessions for doing his job? Probably not until after the elections in Nov.


 Whhhhhhaat? Sessions recused himself and is not involved.



> The hush payments were to aid the campaign by keeping info from coming out, therefore fall into illegal campaign contributions because of their amount and that is was not disclosed.


 You need to read the campaign laws as written. Remember this was politicians writing these laws. The law states that if you have a valid reason, any reason, other than directly related to the campaign then a payment is legal. All Trump has to say is that he paid these women not to embarrass his family. Done deal.



> Omarosa seems to have a never ending supply of videotapes of all this and I wouldn't doubt if Cohen didn't have them too.


 Omarosa keeps talking, but we have seen nothing yet. Well, we have seen a lot of contradictions. She wants to sell her book and that's the bottom line.



> Obstruction of justice is exactly what Clinton was brought up on, for screwing the intern then lieing and covering up evidence.


 I believe Clinton was in trouble for lying under oath, not obstruction of justice.



> Nixon was impeached for the exact same thing, as they destroyed the evidence of the Watergate break in.


 Nixon never was impeached.



> Trump has always been a slimball, cheating contractors, cheating on wives, screwing over business partners, it isn't like he changed his stripes.


 I'm afraid they are all like that.



> if they ran Kasich


 Then we would have a socialist president that calls himself a conservative republican. Have you ever seen such a backstabber as Kasich in your lifetime. I have not.

The media spews garbage and the lemmings repeat, repeat, repeat. They get all excited about we have him now. Meanwhile Trump simply continues to make amazing progress. You never hear the media give him credit. Who would have thought any president could drag America out of the economic basement Obama put us in, especially so quickly. Name a president who has ever in our history followed through with so many campaign promises. Any reservation I may have or have had are far outweighed by this presidents accomplishments. Because of him this nation may survive a while longer before being destroyed by the current two party (perverts and money worshipers) system.


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## huntin1

> The media spews garbage and the lemmings repeat, repeat, repeat. They get all excited about we have him now. Meanwhile Trump simply continues to make amazing progress. You never hear the media give him credit. Who would have thought any president could drag America out of the economic basement Obama put us in, especially so quickly. Name a president who has ever in our history followed through with so many campaign promises. Any reservation I may have or have had are far outweighed by this presidents accomplishments. Because of him this nation may survive a while longer before being destroyed by the current two party (perverts and money worshipers) system.


This^^^

In 2016 I wasn't sure about Trump, but saw him as a better alternative to Hillary. Since then he has done a lot of good for this country and yet liberals and the media refuse to talk about any of his accomplishments, or if they say anything it is to claim that they aren't Trumps accomplishments, they are happening because of Obama's policies. Trump may not be the greatest President, but he is leagues ahead of Obama and anything else the Democrats have to offer.


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## KEN W

Trump has been saying it was a mistake to hire Sessions for his Attorney General. He has been blasting him for not doing his job. Yesterday Sessions said he will do his job and not only do what the president wants. It has been ALL over the news as to whether he will fire him. Good for Sessions. Can't believe he put up for the crap from Trump.

Why did Tricky Dick resign? So he wouldn't be impeached. By the time he resigned his own party was turning against him.


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## Chuck Smith

The payments to the women is like what plainsman stated..... if it was a "personal dontation" from Trump himself to not embarrass his family and what not it is ok. But again there needs to be a paper trail. Which as of now we are not sure of.

I would be more interested if things from his past will come out. IE: tax stuff. which it seems all of these guys are getting hit with. then lying about it... ie: foreign accounts and what not. So that is something I think is the angle by Mueller and Cohen. But only time will tell. The two news paper guys are just getting immunity and turning over the stories. Which again there is nothing illegal about buying stories from people and then never using them. Happens all the time.

One thing that hasn't been talked about the "conspiracy memo".... how the people Trump kept on to kind of "appease" the Dems so it wasn't a total purge of Obama staff. Seems to be under cutting him. Leaking stories and causing mis-information and what not. This might be a huge "nothing" burger but also could lead to something. Who knows.

Anyways this past week has been interesting what has happened. People up in arms (as they should be if everything plays out that Trump is guilty) but we have seen this before and then it is nothing. Like I mentioned all we have concrete so far is tax frauds and bank frauds. Cohen's campaign finance one is the kicker to see what that entails.

Also is the Trump Organization going to be hit with stuff. I am not sure but does the President have anything to do with it other than his name now?? Or is it run by his kids and what not? I am not sure and that might be something we will see in the future.

Anyways.... I am not going to project anything yet. I am not like the media... I am a wait and see type thing. Let all the cards be played before deciding a winner/loser. Because one way or another someone will be TRUMPED.... yes a play on words... could be the president or could be everyone else involved.


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## southdakbearfan

Very interesting all around to see how it all plays out.

Now the trump org cfo has been granted immunity.

Sure looks like rats deserting a sinking ship to me.


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## KEN W

The BIG question will be "does the impeachment clause cover criminal activity while getting to be president along with while he is president."


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## Plainsman

I have a question for you Trump haters. Are you ok with breaking the law? You do know that a special council has to have a named suspected crime right? You do know the dossier was fake right? You do know that the fake dossier was paid for by the Clinton camp right? That makes this whole investigation against the law, but don't let those little things bother. We all know Hillary committed crimes. Why are they not being investigated? If sessions was doing his job Hillary would already be standing before a judge for her sentence.


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## Chuck Smith

Again.... is Trump apart of the Org... or is it just his name?

Like "The Clinton Foundation"...

Like plainsman stated.... many crimes by the Clinton foundation yet no charges for Bill or Hillary. Is this the same thing???

Only time will tell.

Again.... I don't see anything yet against President Trump. It has been Tax Fraud cases against two people so far. No Collusion!!!

So is the Trump Org having tax fraud issues or something??? Time will tell.

It will be interesting how this all plays out. Again is it a Nothing Burger.... or is it something of substance... We will find out because there has been many... "SMOKING GUNS"... yet nothing linking Trump to collusion. Just he had Swamp Creatures hired instead of draining the swamp! Time will tell.


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## Plainsman

I just can't believe after suckering so many times with the "we got him now" routine that people are going to do it again.


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## KEN W

If Clinton broke the law.....go after her. Do you really think that a justice department run by a Republican administration has not looked at going after Clinton if there was something there? But prosecutors start at the bottom and work their way up. This is exactly what they are doing. They can do the same with Clinton.

But they are headed to the top.....Trump. Just because they aren't going after Clinton now, so they shouldn't go after Trump? I think not. Right now Trump and his family run business are the biggest fish in the sea and if he broke the law he should be treated no different than you or me if we broke the law. Or Clinton for that matter. Lock her up if she is guilty......Same goes for the Trumps.


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## Plainsman

> if he broke the law he should be treated no different than you or me if we broke the law. Or Clinton for that matter. Lock her up if she is guilty......Same goes for the Trumps.


Agreed. I don't think they go after Hillary because she is part of the swamp. We know she broke the law. She violated national law when she had a server in her basement. Cut and dried, yet no one is going after her. I think if they really dig they would find the Clintons killed people. They are after Trump for two reasons. One he is not part of the swamp, and two Hillary was supposed to be president and they have no respect for elections. Most are a bunch of wannabe dictators.


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## southdakbearfan

If they broke the law, they all should go to jail. Because one might have gotten off doesn't mean they should let another or the next. I think that is the major issue with all of our federal gov't. They have all gotten rich being paid off, votes bought, special favors to donors, all of them. And should probably all be in jail.

As far as the dossier, it actually was started by republicans, the washington free beacon, as research against trump prior to him becoming the candidate. Democrats picked it up when they stopped funding it, when Trump became the nominee.

As far as the truthfulness of it, I don't think it's been proven either way on all of it, but I am pretty sure all the intelligence community, congress and the majority of the country believe Russians were trying to meddle in the election, which has been proven and is what the special prosecutor was assigned to. Where that leads him, so be it. If you collude with a foreign entity illegally you should be tried for treason, regardless what party you belong to.

Plainsman, I have to ask, what if they come out with solid proof that there was collusion by the trump campaign with the russian government? Would you accept it and his either impeachment or resignation from office?

Why not let the truth come out?


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## Plainsman

If Trump committed a crime throw him in jail. However collusion would be dirty politics, but not a crime.

The dossier has been proven false. A British retired spy (Steel) is wrote it for the company hired by the DNC. Fussion GPS something or other. Complete fabrication. The FBI knew it was false when they used it for a warrant to bug Trumps campaign. One of the liars that used the false dossier would become acting director if Sessions resigns. He still heads the investigation. Why did he not recuse himself? Crooked that's why.


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## southdakbearfan

I love it when they say collusion isn't a crime, don't fall for it.

Collusion isn't "a" crime, it's many lumped into one slang term.

The core federal conspiracy statute, 18 U.S.C. § 371, would be triggered here if there were any agreement by Trump or those around him with Russian agents to do something that the law forbids.

It is illegal to receive stolen property, i.e. emails, papers, etc all fall under this. Even if the Russians got them via a leak, it's still stolen property. That's the law for all people, not just candidates.

It is also a crime for an elected official or candidate to receive or solicit anything of value from a foreign entity, i.e. information on another candidate.

It is also a crime to offer quid pro quo, if they did, with a foreign entity to say offer a better political position or relaxed sanctions.

And then there is the crimes and potential crimes of those around him, if it's proven to be true. Lying to congress, covering up information, etc. Some have already plead guilty about the covering up information by lying during testimony.

Like I said, it's all yet to be proven, but it sure seems like a lot of his "excellent people" are deserting the sinking ship.


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## huntin1

Why is it no one talked impeachment when this happened?



> BARACK OBAMA'S presidential campaign has been fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission for violating federal disclosure laws, Politico reports.
> 
> An FEC audit of Obama for America's 2008 records found the committee failed to disclose millions of dollars in contributions and dragged its feet in refunding millions more in excess contributions.


From here: https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/20 ... -donations


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## north1

If mueller and his goons spent as much time on anyone who has posted on this thread as they have spent on ONE SIDE of a political campaign, my guess is they would have several guilty pleas. When you have carte blanche to go anywhere, do anything, take anything with unlimited power and no accountability God help anyone they shine their light upon.


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## Plainsman

> Collusion isn't "a" crime, it's many lumped into one slang term.


 I beg to differ. Collusion is specific. We can't simply throw out pet definitions at it.

What was it when Obama was caught on a hot mic telling the Russians he could be more flexible after he was elected again? What was it when he gave millions of our tax dollars to Netanyahu's opponent in the Israeli election?



> 18 U.S.C. § 371


 If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof

Collusion:


> secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.


I doubt it happened, but would it be illegal to find the truth? For example if they found Hillary run the illegal server in her basement with no security for the purpose of passing American intelligence to our enemies for a pay off to the Clinton foundation?



> It is also a crime for an elected official or candidate to receive or solicit anything of value from a foreign entity, i.e. information on another candidate.


 Now your making things up. It's illegal for an elected official to solicit things of value, for example for the Clinton Foundation, but information isn't illegal.



> It is also a crime to offer quid pro quo, if they did, with a foreign entity to say offer a better political position or relaxed sanctions.


 Again, like Obama was offering Russia when he didn't know the mic was hot?



> Lying to congress


 Trump has not testified before congress.



> Like I said, it's all yet to be proven, but it sure seems like a lot of his "excellent people" are deserting the sinking ship.


 You have your clichés mixed up. What was it again that deserts sinking ships??????? Oh ya, rats.

Everyone is aware that the FBI and the investigators from the Mueller investigation have all said there was no collusion --- right? Your all aware of that right? That's all over with. Now they are illegally going beyond the authority that was given them. Special investigations are limited to look for a specific crime. Why has no one stopped them from stepping beyond the authority of a special investigation. Because the head of the justice department recused himself leaving the head crook the next in line to run any investigation. The very guy behind the fake dossier, who went to a judge knowing his information was a lie and presented it to that judge, for the purpose of spying on the Trump campaign.


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## north1

All spot on plainsman. Something else to consider. Who in their right mind would call out the justice department on it when EVERYONE has skeleton(s) in their closet? When ANYONE who would be under intense scrutiny for 2+ years would not have something to be concerned about. When your own personal lawyer has their office raided and over 4 million documents confiscated. Those documents exhibiting attorney client privilege. I would honestly be just as concerned if this were being perpetuated upon a democratic president. We have not only been stripped of states rights by an over reaching government, but are losing the justice arm of the government to overreach, unaccountability and political bias. When that happens what does a private citizen have left? The government no longer serves them, they serve the government.


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## Plainsman

Your right north1. When the raid on Cohens office first happened even the liberal democrat attorney's expressed concern. Now they are silent. Like you said democrat or republican we should all be concerned. If this continues we are a republic in name only. We worry about the future of America, but it looks like it's already lost. Now it's just the pervert party against the money worshiping party and no one thinks about the country anymore. Right now the pervert party would sacrifice all this country stands for and for what? Simply to get even for taking the presidency from Hillary?

Does it bother liberals if the Chinese Communist Party funds think tanks in DC?

https://freebeacon.com/national-securit ... ink-tanks/

Liberals would it bother you if your school dropped the pledge of allegiance to our flag and had students take an recite an oath to "global society". It's happened in Georgia and this is the destruction created by liberal thought.

http://eagnews.org/parents-fight-back-a ... l-society/


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## KEN W

As far as losing the Justice arm of the government to political bias......That's what Trump wants to have happen and Sessions isn't allowing any part of that.Good for him. But I'm afraid he won't last much longer. With Trumps buddies turning on him he is going to fire him and put in some yahoo who will bow down and then fire Mueller.. :eyeroll:


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## north1

Already happened. Evidenced by Peter Strzok and Lisa Page to name a few. Amazes me that people adhere to their political party line so taughtly. Trump for all his faults, and yes there are many is basically an island. Surrounded by progressives that hate him, republicans that either hate him, are quietly undermining him or waiting in the wings for a flame out and a few in government that support him. Surprising he is still drawing a breath really. Perhaps if the powers that be fail to oust him politically they may resort to more lethal measures.


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## Plainsman

> As far as losing the Justice arm of the government to political bias......That's what Trump wants to have happen and Sessions isn't allowing any part of that.Good for him.


 Nonsense. When Sessions recused himself he allowed it to be political. He allowed one of the people that should be prosecuted to head the investigation. Purposely undermining the man who appointed him.

Headlines on Drudge this morning:



> MSNBC DOMINATES WHITE HOUSE HELL WEEK...





> CNN Anchor Busted for Two Fake 'Scoops' in Week...





> ESPN Dumps Anti-Trump Anchor...


MSNBC headline with pic of Rachael Maddow. I scratch my head when thinking anyone is far enough left to listen to Rachael Madwoman. Then I scratch my head even more when I hear people say they listen to all news sources except FAUX. They say they listen to all news sources, then in the same breath admit they do not. Insanity I guess. Rabid liberals always spell FOX wrong. Is everything in their lives fasaud?

Think tank. Sounds liberal doesn't it? As if they are really capable  .


> Communist Party funding DC think tanks...


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## Plainsman

https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Law ... 184027.php

Trump haters it's falling apart again. They keep getting their hopes up only to have everything fall apart. Time after time, and still they believe every anti Trump story the sick media spouts. After three times everyone caught on to the little boy who cried wolf. What's this now, about number 100? Everyone in that childhood tale must have been a lot smarter than today's average liberal, and many of our pseudo conservatives. Like our recently departed John McCain.


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## north1

Speakers he requested at his funeral are Barack Obama, Joe Biden and George Bush. It of course is his prerogative but speaks volumes.


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## Plainsman

The media are singing praises for McCain. My condolences to those who loved him, but death doesn't change reality. The liberals will say don't speak ill of the dead, but if we do not speak the next generation will make the same mistakes. I will teach my grandchildren who McCain really was. Every time I think of the man this image comes to mind.


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## KEN W

I understand how you don't care for Maddow. I feel exactly the same about that far, far right Shawn Hannity. I wouldn't tune into him if he was the only program on TV. He is so far right that he has to drive around the block because he can't make a left turn. I don't watch Maddow either. They are both on the far ends of the political teeter totter. Same with Limbaugh.

As for McCain......I differ with you. I liked him as a reasonable middle of the road guy and not a vomit spewing ultra right skin head conservative. oke:


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## dakotashooter2

My question is...... What are the Dems hiding that they continually blowing a smoke screen by putting Trump in the headlines. There is something major they don't want the press or public to get wind of.


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## Plainsman

Ken, you have to listen a little to the crazies to get those few points that most of the media skips over.

Dakota I think it's Hillary and her illegal money from forien powers. If they catch Hillary many of them are next. Biden's son has gone with him to China when Biden was vice pres. His son has made millions, and landed a one billion job with China. They don't mine previous medals in DC, they don't make anything, they don't grow anything, yet the very rich live there. Hmmmmmm strange is it not?


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## Chuck Smith

What I find is the huge issue and it goes for everyone no matter what political spectrum you are on. If you get your news from the main stream political media... ie: Fox, CNN, MSNBC, etc. These are all fronts for smoke screens.

I cant remember what it was but the other day CNN came out with a "breaking story" and then the next day it was proven to be false!! I mean the very next day. Yet you never see CNN apologize or say they were wrong. Now this is an example of CNN. But Fox has done the exact same thing.

I think the "war" should be on holding media accountable for things. This in my mind is a slippery slope but there needs to be something. Because I could be a "source" for a break news story and have absolutely no evidence to back it up. But if anyone wanted to push a narrative they could run with it.

This all goes back to making "good" TV. Back when CNN and MSNBC pushed the narrative of "blame Bush".... then went on to "golden boy" "never talk against or your racist" with Obama. So now it is "Trump is Evil". I honestly think Trump could cure cancer and give the medicine free of charge to all hospitals and he will still be evil.

I will get off my soap box. But this is what is scary.


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## Chuck Smith

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

example on how the media is looking for anything to attack or belittle Trump.

This article states that lowering the flag for a congressman/woman after passing is half staff for the day they passed away and the following day. Then it can be raised back up. Which has happened. That is the US flag code. Yet they are up going to blow this out of water because of the riff between Mc Cain and Trump. I bet that at the press briefing there will be 10 questions all about this raising of the flag. Same question asked by different reporters. uke:

See what I mean how it is "popular" to belittle the president. Like it was with GWB. Sad the double standards.... because anything with Obama you were either called a racist or bigot. This is what is sad!


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## KEN W

I didn't say I didn't watch Fox news to get the other side. I just don't watch Hannity. Plainsman, I would guess you don't watch Maddow. Why not? Same reason I don't watch Hannity. I used to like watching "The No Spin Zone." I didn't always agree with O'Reilly. But at least he was listenable.

I have always gone by one of O'Reilly's quotes from one of his books.......

"Conservative on some things...Liberal on others.....and sane on most things."


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## Plainsman

Your right Chuck and what upsets me even more is we have American stupid enough to buy into things so outlandish a third grader should know better. Like the dossier. The judge who signed for the wire tap is an idiot.


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## KEN W

Next up......Junior gets indicted for lying to the FBI. Trump Tower meeting with Russians was about adoption. uke:

November elections will be super important.If Republicans remain in control of the house......Trump will fire Sessions, Rosenstein, and Mueller.

Republicans study coming hell if Dems gain control of the House.....

Trump tax returns.....Trump family business......Trump and Russia.....Stormy Daniels......Fireing Comey.....White house personal emails......Cabinet travel......Travel ban.....Kushner ethics .....Seperation of families......Election security.......Revoking security clearances......Mnuchin dealings......Comey firing.......Transgender military ban.....sounds like the swamp um lagoon.

Republicans are telling their base that this is what will happen.....effectively ending the Trump presidency.


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## Plainsman

When people leave the gov they should all have their security removed. Comey should have been fired sooner, along with the two crooks involved with the fake dossier. They should face some kind of charges for that. Many of the things you mentioned Ken are why people voted forTrump.

Did you hear about his new trade deal with Mexico? What do you think of the economy?


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## KEN W

Economy is fine. Already was the end of Obama. We will wait and see about Mexico.Details are not out yet. You are correct about Comey. But I would guess for the wrong reason.....Announcing the stuff about Clinton 10 days before election day swung it for Trump.


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## Plainsman

It's amazing that people can see things differently. People were not counted by the Obama team as unemployed if they were not actively seeking employment. The real unemployment rate was over 17% and the economy was in the dumpster. Company after company was leaving the United States and we had record debt.

Comey was trying to help Hillary. One only need look at the emails in the FBI about how much they hated Trump and they would stop him. Struck (however you spell his name) was dumb enough to leave a record of that in his emails to his girl friend and she hated Trump even more. Hillary violated the law and they let her off. Struck even changed the wording in Comeys speech. He called her felony extremely careless.

I do at times watch Maddow. There is something humorous about watching a liberal spout insanity. I know it makes many people angry, but I think it's good that normal people can look at her and understand how nuts the left is. I know some liberals believe the things she says, but I firmly believe she drives people to the right. Those with actually think and watch her the revolt must drive them in the opposite direction. When she really gets wound up I have to laugh out loud. I'm sure she creates more conservative converts than Hannity. I don't like republicans, but the left forces me to vote for them.


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## KEN W

I can't watch Maddow more than a few minutes. Her dialog in the beginning just makes me turn the channel. Can't watch Hannity any longer than that either.Laura Ingram is almost as bad. MSNBC is almost as bad as Fox news. Mostly I watch CNN. Not quite As one sided as the other two.

Comey saying he would again start the investigation a week before the election more than anything cost Clinton the presidency.


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## Plainsman

> Mostly I watch CNN. Not quite As one sided as the other two.


 They have been proven liars many times. Lanny Davis is now admitting that he didn't tell the truth when he said that Trump knew about a meeting with the Russians. That was a big story just a couple of days ago and now it's fallen through like all the other untrue stories. It's been settled there was no collusion. So what's going on then. Children angry because they lost the election. Now they say they will annual the election. There is no constitutional authority to do that. Crazy stores all over and they know they are not true, but not enough Americans pay enough attention to know they are not true. They don't care if they win with lies. No integrity now days in our politicians, or out media.

CNN is absolutely the biggest liars out there. You can do no worse Ken. Try something else. Anything else.


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## Plainsman

Lanny has been trying to come up with explanations other than he outright lied. It's not going to well because no one believes him. Nearly everyone has published or spoken up to correct the story. CNN says they are sticking with the story. CNN is why Trump talks about fake news. I have lost track of all the fake news that comes from CNN.


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## KEN W

Word out now is that Trump tried to buy decades of dirt from the National Enquirer. Useing Cohen to buy them. With the Enquirer getting immunity, how much will come out?


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## Plainsman

> Word out now is that Trump tried to buy decades of dirt from the National Enquirer.


 Smart move, maybe the FBI should have checked with the National Enquirer. I wonder what they need immunity for? They better buy bullet proof vests if they are going to talk about Hillary. :rollin: Hillary reminds me of that little old lady on Justified that wanted everyone to have a taste of her apple pie moonshine.



> PALIN EXCLUDED FROM MCCAIN FUNERAL...


 This was a headline on Drudge today. What a little man to still hold a grudge against Palin because conservatives like her more than him. That's shouldn't have been a surprise to him we like any conservative more than a closet democrat like him. He didn't reach across the isle he belonged across the isle.

Speaking of aholes:


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken,

doesn't surprise me at all that the Enquirer had "dirt" on Trump for decades. He was in the spot light for decades!

Again to do the whole "kill a story" isn't new by any means for any news paper. Many stories are bought everyday. Some reach the press some don't. Some don't reach the press for years and years! Did the Enquirer want immunity because it might have "blackmailed" Trump in the past... who knows. But again this is nothing if you ask me.

To me all that matters is did he break laws! I don't care about gossip. His extra marital affairs don't matter to me. Do I think they are wrong... YES! But I figured he had them when that whole story came out. It wouldn't have changed my vote one bit. Now if things come out that he broke laws..... then deal with it like the courts have. If it is Campaign Finance Laws.... well deal with it like they did Obama... FINES! If it was something worse... tax fraud, etc.... jail time. Because unlike some people (many on the liberal side of things)&#8230; I believe if laws are broken you need to be punished. Hence ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.... etc.

The story needs to be out on the now China and Hilary emails.... how come this isn't getting the coverage like the Flag at half mast for McCain has gotten?? This could be something really serious. But yet only blurbs about it.

Time will only tell on all of this.


----------



## Plainsman

> doesn't surprise me at all that the Enquirer had "dirt" on Trump for decades. He was in the spot light for decades!


 After all the Russian bs I thought Ken was saying he tried buying dirt on Hillary. Either way if information was there how many of us would not do the same?


----------



## KEN W

Trump aides telling the truth.....

John Kelly......"an idiot unhinged"......."Pointless to try to convince him of anything. He's gone off the rails.We're in Crazy Town. I don't even know why any of us are here. This is the worst job I've ever had."

James Mattis......"a fifth or sixth grader"

Rex Tillerson......."a fu--ing moron

Gary Cohn......"a professional liar"

John Dowd......"a fu--ing liar"

Crazy town inside the White House. Aides are so concerned they take papers off his desk before he can read them.Calls Sessions mentally retarded and a dumb southerner.

Reince Preebus......."When you put a snake, a rat, a falcon, a rabbit, a shark and a seal in a zoo w/o walls, things start getting nasty and bloody."

This is the worst president this country has ever had. His own people don't like the guy. They are spending most of the day trying to protect the country from him.


----------



## southdakbearfan

Well, I don't know what it all means, but I fully trust Woodward as a journalist and author. He is old school, has everything recorded and/or transcribed.

What it means for trump, well, I will reserve until the book is out. The few clips from it paint a lot of disorganization, distrust and discontent.


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## Plainsman

We will see, we will see.

When Obama nominated a person for the supreme court the republicans mostly voted for them. They certainly didn't turn it into a circus like the democrats did today. The problem is they don't want a judge that interprets the constitution, they want a liberal puppet. They said "one more question" and we turn it back to the committee chairman. Then another Democrat said they had one more question. Soon it was a dozen question and more. Simply trying to be obstructionist, but I don't think they can stop him. Mostly it was democrats wanting some time on tv so they could use it for campaign advertisements. The quiet democrats were the ones running for reelection in Trump supporting states.


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## north1

Woodward book-I still favor using toilet paper in the commode. Respect some of his Nixon work but plenty of info out there about misrepresentation and outright lies in his reporting. Tried finding out scoop on it and first page of info was all CNN and New York Times. Yeah. Not impressed. Swamp news.


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## KEN W

I guess I don't think asking to be given time to go over 42,000 pages is being obstructionist. Why did Republicans release these THE NIGHT BEFORE hearings start. Trump nominated him months ago.This is asking to much? :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## KEN W

This is ....."a man hopelessly out of his depth in the job, but entirely incapable of understanding how desperately out of depth he actually is. A man motivated almost entirely by personal grievance. A man willing to humiliate people who work for him, to play staffers against one another, to scapegoat underlings to keep blame off of himself. Someone who has so much self-belief that he rarely adequately prepares for situations involving international diplomacy and national security. Top aides who view that their jobs are primarily keeping Trump from causing serious harm, and grousing every step of the way about the man."

No political experience is showing it's ugly head. This isn't a swamp, it's a lagoon.This is a man we want to lead our country? :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken and SD Bear....

Here is an article coming out today saying what Woodward quoted was pure lies from the people who he "quoted"...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP



> Mattis said Tuesday he "never uttered" the words attributed to him in Woodward's book, and said he viewed the book as a word of "fiction."
> 
> Kelly echoed the same type of sentiment Tuesday, saying the idea that he has ever or would ever called the president an idiot is untrue.


So again we will see about this "book".

Now onto the nomination...

Ken, 
You state that reviewing another 42,000 pages is needed. Almost every Democrat in the house and senate has publicly stated they will not vote for this nomination or vote NO. Why do they need to review more pages if their mind is made up??? Most of them said they would block it before the first 500,000 pages were reviewed. So is this obstruction to delay until midterms? Is this governing when you come out before any evidence or research is done and say that you as an elected official will "BLOCK" this nomination. Is that doing your due diligence for the country? This is the crap that angers me on both sides.

I talked with some of my friends who are very liberal. They were embarrassed by what happened yesterday at the hearing. They admitted that it is all a joke what the democrats are doing. I could see that they had a hard time admitting that but they did. These people really dislike Trump mostly for his social or lack of social skills. They admit that some of the stuff he has done is good so far for the country.... but totally disagree with him on other aspects. So to say they are moving towards the Trump side is not going to happen. But they said it was a disgrace watching the hearing for the Democratic party.


----------



## Chuck Smith

On the hearing for the new justice...

This was one of the best moments. Now only if he follows thru or opens the eyes of many.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJK2Jve ... e=youtu.be


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## KEN W

Chuck and Plainsman .Republicans mostly voting for Obama's nominees??????....you seem to forget Obama nominating someone to the supremes and the REPUBLICAN Senate blocked hearings until after the 2016 election. Using your words......They would vote NO no matter what.. They had their minds made up way before the election. And they had months to have hearings and vote him on. Is this doing your diligence for the country or just being a Republican political hack? To me that was a disgrace for the Republican party. Is this governing when you come out and say you will BLOCK this nomination no matter what?

AND now we are in the same situation only reversed.....Why aren't we waiting for the next election just like the Republicans did in 2016. All I heard was....."let the people decide." Guess the people aren't good enough to decide this time. Not only that but reducing the 60 vote majority for passing to 50 Trumps nuclear option...... just so they could get their guy Korsich onto the court. It would be good for them if the Dems did the same thing next year if they win control.

Remember, the Republican Party coined the phrase...." The Party of NO." for 8 years during the Obama presidency. Isn't it fair for Democrats to do the same?


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## Chuck Smith

I never stated they voted from Obama's nominees. They did vote in two justices.... Sotomayer and Kagan. The Dems had 55 seats in the senate and the votes were 68-31 and 63-37.

Also in 2016 it was a presidential election year. Not a midterm. Huge difference.

Here is my question to you is why didn't Obame do a recess appointment or nomination? He could have in 2016?? Was it because the Democratic party thought it would win the election and not have to worry about it???

Also I will ask you the same question I ask my liberal friends...

1. What is wrong with this nominee?? Why are people totally against him? Why is the democratic party against him???

Is it because he is conservative or is it because he was nominated by Trump???

I will tell you the answers I hear..... (crickets)

He has come out and said in the immigrant teen abortion issue..... or the Abortion issue...."Had she been an adult, she would have had a right to an abortion immediately," Kavanaugh said. So he isn't against totally abortion. He is pro - 2nd add also said stated that his view is on the constitutional laws and the precident set with many court cases before hand... (a DC case I cant remember the name) and he will uphold the constitution. He backs brown vs the board of education as one of the greatest achievements by the court. He stated nobody is above the law.

So lets summarize... 1. He is not against womens rights. 2. He is for the right to bare arms. 3. He is not "racist" like some are claiming.

So why the grandstanding????

Now back in 2016 the Republicans stated they used the "Biden Rule" which when Biden was a Senator stated not to have hearings for a Justice until a new president was elected. Even though Biden had to "clarify" his remarks he meant for it as a way for congress to work together instead of not having a hearing. Which again is up to each person thinking is did he back track since the shoe was on the other foot and wanted Obama's pick to have a hearing... who knows.

Anyways.... what I see at the hearing in what I have watched is embarrassing by many of the Democratic Senators. I feel they are grandstanding to make a point infront of an audience. They are trying to "drive" the midterm elections with bad press about the president. Yet this shouldn't be about the President is should be about hiring/nominating someone who is qualified for the job.

REMEMBER JUDGES DONT MAKE THE LAW.... THEY INTERPURT THE LAWS AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE FOLLOWED. :bop:


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## KEN W

An election is an election. Even every 2 years because the House members are up every 2 years so it doesn't matter if the president is elected. Plus 1/3 of the Senate. Same as a presidential election.Which can change the makeup, of both and the all important speakers and committee chairman. No difference. We wil l see.....absentee balloting begins in a month.

I am not totally against Kavinaugh. Don't know enough about him. Also It will be interesting to see what the 4-5 Dem. Senators from the red states do. They will be better off if the Republicans can confirm him with all Republican votes. Then they don't have to make the hard decision. They can vote for him and say.....".See, I voted for him." If one of their votes is needed because some Republicans vote no.....a nightmare for those red state Dems. That includes Heitkamp.

He wouldn't answer......"can the president pardon himself?" "Can a sitting president be required to answer a subpena." Those are questions by the Dems I would like to have answered.

As for abortion.....of course she could have one immediately. Every conservative would have to say that. It's the current law.It doesn't mean he is for or opposed. MY guess, he is opposed and his vote could overturn the law and then he would say...." nope she can't have one. It's against the law." As far as making the law. Come on......they make the law either for or against.How many votes are 9-0. Personal opinion always matters. Even in our courts.No 2 or 3 or 4 judges always vote the same as their coleagues.

One thing I don't like about him is his stance that a president can't be indicted. What a buch of hooey. He is an American citizen. Just like you and me. If he is in a court, the VP can take over.

Look at the Federal appeals courts.....Number 9 around San Francisco is almost always liberal. Conservatives basically don't have a chance.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken,

I don't know the exact law or rule that is out there but it is on the books that a SITTING president cant be indicted unless it is a serious crime... ie; Murder or treason defined by the constitution. Even then there needs to be so much compelling evidence that a toddler could see he is guilty for it to happen. The reason is because the president has too many responsibilities to be put through all of this while in office. Now if the president gets impeached then they can get indicted. The things that have come up so far by Mueller and his team seems to be dealing with "Taxes" and if it is campaign finance laws... well the bar has been set when Obama was found guilty of the breaking campaign finance laws and was fined. But we still have yet to see anything against President Trump. So for the question asked of Kavinaugh about can the president be indicted.... that is a very open ended question with out knowing what the crime is. So is very hard to answer it. Same goes for the pardon question.... depends on evidence and what not.

Now onto the abortion.... you said he had to say that because that is the law. Well isn't that what judges are supposed to do? Judges don't make laws... Congress makes laws!! Just like the video I posted about the congressman from Nebraska stating that Congress has been failing the US Citizens for years. they pushing off everything onto the Judges because they don't want to hurt re-election. Anyways that is another discussion on why term limits should be in place&#8230; IMHO. Also term limits could curb some of the "lobbying" so big companies and lobbyists could keep an elected official in there back pocket for years.... at least they would have to restart every so often... IMHO. Anyways... another topic.

So with the every 2 years election.... So no justice could be appointed every 2 years?? There are elections every year. Someone dies, someone quits, someone retires, someone gets arrested, etc. So then there wouldn't be any appointments?


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## Plainsman

> An election is an election


 Very wrong. Obama was a lame duck. Most presidents as lame ducks are blocked do the new president can set his agenda. They all do that. Trump is not in that position. He is now in the position where republicans were very cooperative with Obama.
There are many other things I would like to comment on, but it will have to wait until I have a computer. As an example falling for another story after being wrong so many times. Oh and the comment about out of his league or something like that. Name another president who has accomplished so much while under so much pressure. Name any president in history who has kept so many promises. That's integrity.


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## Chuck Smith

Since we are on the hearing....

What are peoples thoughts about Booker releasing "confidential" material or "committee classified" material. Now again it could have been declassified but as of now it is considered "confidential or committee classified". So Booker is breaking rules.

Also from what I have heard about those emails released is Booker trying to race bait the nominee. The emails were right after 9/11 and they were talking about racial profiling. After 9/11 and still to this day.... muslims was at the core of it. So is this "grand standing" on his part???

Trying to get a delay? Because if he gets throw off the committee or gets expelled from the Senate will that delay this whole process????


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## Plainsman

The left has lost their mind. They have become the party of hate. Even local friends have Trump logic disorder. I forget what the common disorder is now being called, but it appears to destroy all logic.

Many of these democrats simply want camera time for adds, if they come from a socialist state. Let them make fools of themselves. Some liberals I know may be turning.


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## KEN W

Plainsman......you have described the right from the left point of view. :bop:

Kavenaugh hearing ending. Heitkamp and Manchun have said they see nothing in the hearings that would disqualify him.

If so you guys can rest easy.


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## Plainsman

I was never worried. Kavanaugh is headed to the supreme court and there is nothing the democrats can do to stop him. Their only hope was make it a big smoke and mirrors for the campaign and hope they win some seats. They are cutting their own throat and to dumb to know it.

What is with the left, and when did they become anti American? They support Kapernick and anyone else who will not stand for the anthem. Now Hollywood made a movie about landing on the moon and left out planting the American flag. Some say it's offensive. They offend me. Most appear to love Muslims while disliking Christians more each day. They kill the young, bad mouth America, praise socialist and communist, praise black criminals over police, would imprison American soldiers while letting terrorists free, and prefer democrat voting illegal aliens over fellow Americans. I can't believe this is happening in my lifetime.


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## Plainsman

News tonight: a grand jury is being impannelled to look at FBI corruption starting with McCabe. Others to follow, and I think they will be indicted. Then we will find the lies used to try frame Trump.


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## zogman

*Everyone needs to watch the opening remarks by Senator Sasse from Nebraska. *


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## huntin1

A few thoughts on the Kavanaugh hearings. According to what I'm hearing on the news there have been 212 arrests during the hearings. Stotomayor had 4 arrests at her hearings and I can find no record of arrests at the Kagan hearings.

Liberals see themselves as the most tolerant people in America, yet there have been 208 more of them arrested that there were arrests of conservatives during the hearings of the 2 Supreme Court Justices that were picked by Obama.

So, are they really protesting Kavanaugh, or are they protesting him out of frustration simply because he was nominated by Trump?


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## north1

More proof that liberalism/progressivism is a mental disorder. They shouldn't necessarily be arrested but committed


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## Chuck Smith

It is also coming out about Booker....

The "emails" he released were already deemed acceptable to show the public before he released them. Now one can argue that they released them because of him or that they were in the process of releasing them is up to debate. But him acting like some revolutionary or hero is kind of FAKE.

But I have heard him say he released stuff that isn't acceptable for the public. Which I hope is true and they fine, expulse, etc him. It needs to show "LEAKS" of any kind are not tolerated at any level.

But anyway it shows how this guy is only worried about running for president.


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## Plainsman

If he thought they should not be released, but he did it anyway, it just proves he cares more about his political power than this nation. Another liberal low life.

I had to laugh at the ridiculousness of Obamas speech today. He thinks he should have credit for the economy when he is the one who drove it into the ditch. Then he says Trump is dividing the nation. Race relations were better before Obama took office and he divided the nation. I think his fundamentally changing the nation was more like destroying the America we know. Now we see many liberals crying out for socialism. In reality we are very socialist already. Further that direction is communism.


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## KEN W

Better than being Nazi's on the other end. Obama gave a true and necessary speech. Trump is the one destroying this country. Just depends on which side you are on. Ultra conservative to the right is making a mess. Country needs to move back towards the center. Hopefully coming elections will do that and balance out the far right. Country needs checks and balances. Not an extreme situation like it is now.

The chaos at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. is a prime example.


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## north1

The ultra conservative far right is in control? Prove it. Trump is no ultra far right conservative by any stretch. Neither are those close to him. For Gods sake man, you mean to say Obama didn't creat division? The division there is now is just the left not having ultimate control with a capitulating White House. The balance of power has just shifted for a bit. Obama had it in his first term and lost it. Thems the breaks. But no. Now that the rudder is being steered by someone else let's lose our collective minds and go off the rails. Suck it up Nancy and let it play out. I did it for 4 years. Yes I did vote for Obama the first time round. Hoping he would effect his hope and change mantra from his 2008 run. Finally put to rest this 200 year old slavery crap and prove that any man or woman of any race can make it if you put forth the effort. But no. He played the race card at every opportunity and divided the country. AGAIN. To the point the left had blacks leaning toward desegregation in many instances. He failed. Period. Don't worry. The pendulum will swing and you will have your cake and eat it too in the future. What comes round goes round.


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## KEN W

Diversity......everyone has their own opinion.Mine is different than yours.


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## Plainsman

Diversity derived from division. A country made up of many different nationalitie/races is fine, but it should come naturally not be a goal. Also we should celebrate being American not French, Japanese, English, African, Swedish, or Naive American. Multiple people types is fine, but not multiple cultures. The left are such hypocrites you could describe a culture and they would know exactly which group you were talking about, but they would call you a racist. If describing them is racist so is knowing who was described.

No one has divided the races in this country as much as Obama. He started his anti white and police with his stupidly famous beer summit, talked about if he had a son he would be like Trayvon Martin, and ended with sending in the feds to Furgeson, Missouri to stir up blacks to hate and burn. Look at his pal mayor in Chicago with the highest murder rate in the nation. The problem with liberals is they think they are winners when they are destroying everything they touch.


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## north1

I believe that it is not the color of your skin but the content of your heart and mind that makes a person valuable to themselves, family, friends, society and as a citizen of their country. What do you believe?


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## Plainsman

north1 to me the greatest liberal atrocity is their constant efforts to destroy the credibility of the Bible which is God's word. In some cases they have twisted it beyond recognition. I am not on facebook, but my wife is and I see some of my old classmates and what they say makes me scratch my head. All I can think of is the passage that says "in later days they shall gather to themselves teachers who preach what their itching ears long to hear". Not God's word, but conformed to their perversions.


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## north1

I can imagine if I injected God into a conversation with liberal friends I would get the eye roll. So I usually abstain, which is wrong. Hard to have separation of church and state when the state was created using Christian principles but to each their own. You are correct. It's ALL there in the Bible. Everything a person needs to survive and stay sane. To prove you have been created for a purpose, are loved beyond your comprehension and that the best is yet to come.


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## huntin1

As long as we are talking the Bible, I ran across a verse that made me smile and in some cases is the absolute truth.



> Ecclesiastes 10:2-3 New International Version (NIV)
> 
> 2. The heart of the wise inclines to the right,
> but the heart of the fool to the left.
> 
> 3. Even as fools walk along the road,
> they lack sense
> and show everyone how stupid they are.


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## Plainsman

This may interest you north1. I was ELCA for 38 years. Each year they became more liberal. I left eight years ago. https://www.exposingtheelca.com


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## KEN W

White House equals shrinking circle of trust.......crazy town......zoo w/o walls......Chaos drowning out Economic news.

Trump can't trust anyone outside his family. He made his bed......now he can sleep in it. oke: oke:


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## north1

I hear you Plainsman. I am at a crossroads. It's a pickle. A conundrum. Was baptized a Methodist. That church closed when I was in grade school. Parents transferred to ELCA church and I was cinfirmed there in the early 1980's. My wife was Missouri Synod so we were married there in 1990. The pastor told me right to my face on three different occasions I was going to hell and my wife was safe as long as she stayed a member. If I changed membership, went through classes then I would be able to receive communion and be saved. My wife was so fired up she said she would never become a Missouri Synod member as long as she lived. Personally I would have done it if it was what she wanted.

So we switched to a Lutheran church my grandmother went to so we could pick her up and that way she could get to church. Well that one merged with my previous ELCA church and here we sit. We absolutely LOVE all the people who we worship with. They too are up in arms with the ELCA. Church could not support itself not being combined. So basically close church or ?. Nearest acceptable alternative is 65 mile road trip away. It's a pickle for sure.


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## Plainsman

north1 that is a pickle. The pastor in our old church now prays for the endangered species and global warming. I suppose they are not all that nuts. If you can find any church that believes the Bible is inerrant and infallible your doing good. We have a number to choose from in Jamestown. Those that think there are contradictions in the Bible simply don't know it well enough. Some think they are theologians they are so familiar, but they are not. I got ticked, put my name and phone number in the news paper and started a new church. A Free Lutheran here in Jamestown called New Hope.

Edit: north1 I was baptized Methodist too. Like many others they have gone off the rails.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> White House equals shrinking circle of trust.......crazy town......zoo w/o walls......Chaos drowning out Economic news.
> 
> Trump can't trust anyone outside his family. He made his bed......now he can sleep in it. oke: oke:


Some now are saying the reason the paper will not divulge their source is because there is no source and the whole thing is made up. The liberal wet dream is falling apart again.


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## Chuck Smith

Plainsman.... it will be interesting if anything comes of that NYT piece. Or if the White House will do some digging to find if it was real or not.

I read an article today that stated that Omarosa needs to stop "releasing" tapes because they are not more nothing burgers. Again she is trying to drum up hype for her "book". Just like Woodard.... so maybe Woodard wrote the piece to the NYT???

How come nobody is talking about the Strzok and Page texts? Again waiting for the evidence on it but it sounds like the text messages show some major issues.

I love the CNN headling, "House Republican, without evidence, suggests new texts show misconduct of former FBI officials"..... if there are text messages isn't that evidence???? But again I am going to wait and see what comes up as more evidence. I am not like many who just run with a story. Which has happened lately with media outlets and then find out they are nothing.

But it is one to look at and see. Because it is in line with all of the crap going on... Omarosa, Woodard, NYT, this stuff, etc.


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## Plainsman

> I am not like many who just run with a story.


 I can't believe the friends, relatives, and acquaintances who sucker time after time, after time. I don't get why they don't learn. Are they blinded by hate? Has this nation become so divided that they will hope for the worst?


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## Plainsman

Some left wing congressman was on today saying that money was being diverted from FEMA to Homeland Security. The head of FEMA said it was absolutely false. MSNBC said they are going with the story anyway. So much for journalistic integrity. Are any of you sure you want to go whole hog on the nextnfalse Trump story? I can almost gurantee there will be some reason this hurricane is Trumps fault. Wait for it, wsit for it -------

After all these lies have been debunked I think you liberal guys should abandon the dark side and join us in the light.


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## Chuck Smith

Plainsman..... they are already gearing up to blame the president for something with this hurricane.

They are blaming him and false statements about what happened in PR. I know it doesn't help he is a narcissist and thinks everything he does is pure gold. But what the media is trying to do is show how he didn't do anything to help PR or it was all "very late". Well PR was devastated by a hurricane before, it's infrastructure wasn't there, the citizens didn't have power prior to that store hitting, the government was corrupt, etc. So the media has been rehashing all of that storm detail and now trying to spin it that this storm will be worse for people. It is an absolute JOKE what is being said.

I have watched multiple clips where FEMA workers and the leaders of FEMA keep saying there was nothing Trump could have done better on that disaster and then the interviewer cuts them off. It is like if certain things don't get said to hurt the president the interviewer ends the segment or argues/talks over the person to try and make a point. It is so classless. BTW... this is happening in all of the media. Very rarely you see a debate style interview or a give and take. You are more than likely to see people fly off the handle.

Anyways... like any/all natural disasters nothing can get done quick enough. It always takes time for things to get done, aid to be rendered, supplies to arrive, things to be rebuilt, etc.

Here are a couple of the clips I was talking about....


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## Plainsman

> the government was corrupt,


 Bingo and that crazy lady mayor is much to blame for any lack of service to the citizens. There are still thousands of pallets of water that was not dispersed to the people. What do they expect from FEMA that they bring them the water, screw off the cap, and pour it in their mouth? Liberal areas are helpless and look to gov as a momma to them. Grow up you lazy low lifes. 
Here is an example of lazy. Our church went to New Orleans after the hurricane. They were shingling a man's house. He sat in his lawn chair drinking beer and watching them. They came back and talked about how laid back the man was. He was not laid back he was lazy. His house and he watches other people repair it while he sits on his behind drinking beer. This is a liberal voter every election, but they continue to make things worse for them.


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## Chuck Smith

This just came out about Kavanaugh....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

It is a letter sent to Rep. Feinstein. All it says that something happened or could have happened when Kavanaugh was in High School. Nothing more has been said or evidence brought forward.

Now here are a couple of things or my takes on this....

1. Stalling tactic by the left.
2. Was he a juvenal when this happened? Or what was the incident? Was it something that got reported and swept under the rug or was it something that didn't get reported.... or was it a wrong place at wrong time.... way to many angles to go with out knowing the facts.... BUT WATCH CNN and MNBC run with it!! Wait until the White house briefing!
3. If it was something horrendous how will the Repblicans respond...ie: VOTE NO or Cancel the nomination.

Things will be interesting.... but to be honest.... I see this as a stalling tactic and possibly a fake story. I hope I am wrong because it seems this is a #metoo type thing.... and if found to be nothing it will degrade that whole movement. :bop:


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## KEN W

Plainsman.....the light is awful dim on your side too.So don't lose any sleep or hold your breath waiting for anyone to move over. :laugh: :laugh:


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## Plainsman

Chuck I'll place my bet on it being another fake. There is no hesitation to lie, and no shame when they ate exposed. Depravity.


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## Chuck Smith

Another debunking of FEMA outcry right now....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7ZHvNg ... e=youtu.be

Again I don't think trump should have been tweeting. But this shows how the media is trying to discredit anything and everything.

Here is a great little article about Ginsburg and the crap the Dems are trying to pull. She is even saying it is a circus that is going on with Kavanaugh.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ru ... 2f4733cf91


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## Chuck Smith

> Chuck I'll place my bet on it being another fake. There is no hesitation to lie, and no shame when they ate exposed. Depravity.


I hope this isn't the truth. Because it will be a total disgrace and should piss off many. Because it is trying to use a movement to discredit someone... and if it is a false lie and is "hiding" behind the shield of a victim not wanting to step forward. It is a very sad day for our nation.

I like Kavanaugh.... but I need to see the facts on this issue.


----------



## north1

You won't see the facts on this issue. Talking points may be offered as facts hoping you digest them though.

So how many times have we seen this scenario? Too many to count. An anonymous accusation made by a "victim" to a media outlet which is then given to a democrat congress person to be deceminated to the public at conspicuously just the right moment. Add to that this "incident" supposedly occurred in high school. What did you or me do in high school that was stupid. I consider myself to be a good citizen but did some pretty dumb things in high school. Back to the point. Why do these victims magically appear at opportune moments and then mysteriously disappear shortly after the damage is done. Sorry I'm not that gullible. In my estimation this "incident" is 100% manufactured and probably holds little if any truth. A Democrat ploy through and through.


----------



## Plainsman

Washington is corrupt period. That's why I call them a two party system, perverts and money worshipers. However the democrats lie so much and are for things like abortion and gay marriage there just appears to be a pervasive evil in their party.

There is no shame in the democrat party. Lie and it's acceptable. Cheat and it's acceptable. undermine with false accusations and it's not only acceptable it's encouraged. The biggest lie I have heard in the past week is Obama saying this is his economy. He did his best to destroy the American economy. Even worse I don't think it was by accident. The man isn't stupid, but he is evil. Did he make the Iran deal for America, or did he do it to give Iran money? He bows and apologizes for America to our enemies and even to those who's *** we saved in WWII.

Lets get one thing straight. If we need to apologize to anyone it's those who we have let down while democrats were in power. Like Israel for example. The other fallacy that democrats have is that we owe things to other countries. We don't owe anyone anything. Now we have well meaning fools who want to help South Africa even while they murder white farmers. Soon they will starve because murdering each other is more important to them than farming. Then they will get hungry and tell us we owe them. I would rather arm the farmers with nuclear artillery.


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## Chuck Smith

North....

Oh I agree. But lets delve into this deeper.... Manfort is copping a plea deal. In-which one count is "conspiracy to obstruct justice, is tied to his efforts to guide witness testimony after he was indicted last year."

This all comes from this: "Manafort privately coordinated with an unnamed senior Israeli official to spread this story as part of what he called an effort to have "Obama Jews" pressure the Obama administration to disavow Tymoshenko. Manafort wrote to one associate: "I have someone pushing it on the NY Post. Bada bing bada boom."

At least one outlet - Breitbart News - took Manafort's bait, publishing a story with the headline, "Jewish Leaders Blame Hillary Clinton For 'Legitimizing' Ukraine's Neo-Nazi Party."

"Manafort sought to have the Administration understand that 'the Jewish community will take this out on Obama on election day if he does nothing,'" the charging document said. "

So... where does this land with all the FISA stuff, Strozk, etc.... HMMMMMMM..... will they get obstruction.

Now back to this topic.... if all found out to be false... will some sort of Obstruction be thrown at Feinstein?? Or will Kavanaugh have a civil court case? Because I saw a clip where some lawyers stated that Carter page is in for a payday in civil court. Again I am not saying criminal against Feinstein... but a civil case????


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## north1

Previous toilet flushes show that nothing will happen. Eventually the story "turd" will disappear into the sewer and everyone will merrily go on their way to the next newest shiny turd. Whether it effects the outcome of what they are intending to slow or stop remains to be seen. Would like to preface this by adding this also happens on the rhino side but with much less frequency and intensity.


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## Chuck Smith

> Would like to preface this by adding this also happens on the rhino side but with much less frequency and intensity.


Very true!!! :beer:


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## KEN W

The chief dot connector for Trumps collusion with Russia is now fully cooperating with Mueller. He was at the Trump tower meeting with the Russians. This guy was campaign manager during that time. Have Junior and Kushner been telling the truth? We shall see. :bop: :bop:


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## Plainsman

> Trumps collusion


 The FBI, the Justice Dept, and everyone involved has already said there was no Russian Collusion. Following north1 description that's the old dull turd that's already gone down the sewer.


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## Plainsman

Chuck Smith said:


> Would like to preface this by adding this also happens on the rhino side but with much less frequency and intensity.
> 
> 
> 
> Very true!!! :beer:
Click to expand...

I agree also. That's why I call the democrats the perverts and the republicans the money worshipers.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> Trumps collusion
> 
> 
> 
> The FBI, the Justice Dept, and everyone involved has already said there was no Russian Collusion. Following north1 description that's the old dull turd that's already gone down the sewer.
Click to expand...

I guess we will find out. :bop: :bop:

Time to go hunting. Going to spend all week in Sask hunting geese. Word is the snows are down big time.


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## Plainsman

Good luck Ken. I shot my bow deer last Thursday, but I goofed up. I had a very nice 5X5 that I estimate would have gone at minimum 160 and maybe even 170. At ten minutes after sunset and very cloudy evening in come this 5X5 with his left side to me. He was a buck that had never been on camera (first year I have used one) and looked like the buck I was waiting for. I drilled him through the shoulder and out the other side. He went 44 yards and was down. The right side last point was two inches instead of six inches and I had the wrong buck. Still a good buck, but 20 inches smaller than the big one.

Safe travels Ken.


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## Chuck Smith

Good luck Ken.... go get them.

Plainsman.... it has been too hot for me to climb into my stand this weekend (opening of bow season in MN)&#8230; .but am jealous.

Back to thread...

Now the letter writer has come out and will testify to the committee... Which I think she should. Then we will see what is going to happen.


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## KEN W

Nice buck I'm sure. Fresh venison. I made sausage out of the last 10 lbs of the mulie I shot last year. Good summer sausage.

I will update from the motel during the week. The snows supposedly had a VERY poor hatch this year so hunting could be tough for them. Last year they had one of the best hatches ever. We went twice and really hammered them.


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## Chuck Smith

Back to some Trump news....

NK is moving forward with denuclearization and also looking to make amends with SK....

They both are planning on making a joint application for the 2032 (I think) summer Olympics.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/the-co ... 1537310846

I am not a member of the wall street journal. But the little bit you can read and title says a lot about the corporate tax cuts!

So when some of the Dem's cry that the tax cuts are robbing the country.... think again!!! :bop: :bop: :bop:


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## KEN W

Back from hunting. Not so good this year. Snows had a terrible hatch. No young ones......they didn't decoy worth crap. The honkers did though so we settled for some of them.

This Kavanaugh stuff is getting wild. Will he get confirmed before the election?


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## Plainsman

I think the longer it drags out the worse it is for the democrats. I was listening to a talk show the other day and a lady called in and said because she knew Kavanaugh in the past they wanted dirt. On the other hand if they don't vote before the election people will turn on the republicans. Up until the election democrats will be blamed for the circus.


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## KEN W

One big question......Why is the fake president chicken to show us his tax returns? Is he hiding how much he has hidden so as not to pay legitimate taxes? Are there shady business dealings hidden? Is he still involved in business decisions even though that is against the law? Every other president and candidate in modern times has released there tax return. Why aren't you conservatives demanding he release his returns?

His old man gave him millions in shady ways so he would not have to pay taxes on them. Like going to one of his casinos and buying millions of chips but never cashing them in. uke:

Devalueing business properties and then selling them at a huge profit. As in most political investigations....FOLLOW THE MONEY


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## speckline

Follow the money and it will probably lead you right to the Clinton murder foundation :sniper:


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## KEN W

speckline said:


> Follow the money and it will probably lead you right to the Clinton murder foundation :sniper:


 While that's happening. Trump won't be president any longer....Impeached into oblivion. oke:

Or imprisoned for breaking tax laws along with the rest of his family.


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## KEN W

The Trumps.....a family of criminals. It will all come out.

According to the Times, one of the key findings was a financial disclosure form from President Donald Trump's older sister, Judge Maryanne Trump Barry Senate confirmation proceedings in 1999 to be a federal appellate judge. This financial form was not redacted, and Times reporter Susanne Craig, one of the three reporters who broke the story, noticed an oddity in the filing -- a $1 million contribution from a Trump family-owned company called All County Building Supply & Maintenance.

Craig, along with reporters David Barstow and Russ Buettner, began to investigate the company. People familiar with family patriarch Fred Trump told them that All County was a "middleman entity created by President Trump and his siblings essentially to move cash from Fred Trump's companies to his children," the Times said.

After the company purchased items for Trump buildings such as cleaning supplies, the Times notes that a secretary would bill these "items to Fred Trump's buildings with a 20% to 50% markup," and the siblings would "pocket the difference." The siblings received millions in untaxed gifts from their father, skirting a 55% tax on gifts over a certain value that would have cut the total significantly, the Times reported.

According to Tuesday's report by the Times, the President helped "his parents dodge taxes" in the 1990s, including "instances of outright fraud" that allowed him to amass a fortune from them. The President and his siblings helped his parents build their wealth by hiding millions of dollars in gifts in a "sham corporation," according to the Times.


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## Plainsman

Your a couple days behind and shot down before you started Ken. The IRS signed off an many of the things your talking about. What is this about number 15 fake new we have read on here now? Watch as it evaporates again.


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## KEN W

Doesn't change the fact that the Trumps are tax evaders and basically a criminal organization. Currently......the city of New York is looking at them for tax evasion.


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## Plainsman

Of course they are looking. They are trying to find any way they can to destroy Trump. Your not going to consider him guilty until proven innocent again are you? That's the democrat way, not the American way.


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## KEN W

So using your logic.....You are trying to find any way to destroy the Clintons. They are also guilty until proven innocent......the Republican way.


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## KEN W

Back to my question.....why aren't Republicans pushing to have THEIR president to release his tax returns? Could it be he is hiding something? uke:


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> So using your logic.....You are trying to find any way to destroy the Clintons. They are also guilty until proven innocent......the Republican way.


 Not really it's a preponderance of the evidence. The FBI already told us Hillary run an illegal server in her basement. She admitted it. She also received intelligence reports on that unprotected server. That we know. At the time her position required her to follow laws and to break them was a felony. She broke those laws. We know that. It's not a guess. Oh and there are still 33,000 missing emails. When Trump joked about the Russians find it the liberals went nuts. I think that's the night they came up with the nut job story about collusion.

Bill Clinton it was proven he was having sex in the oval office with an intern. The blue dress was the proof and only then did Billy fess up. The crime was he under oath lied to congress about it. We also know that. The problem is both are guilty of felonies and face no consequences. I guess the democrat way is also ignoring crimes if you like the guilty. You think a republican did it send him to prison. You know a democrat is guilty of crimes you pat them on the back.

What did you think of Ford tossing her "best friend" under the buss when asked about her. She said she had health problems and she hoped she would get the help she needed. This was the friend she said was with her at the party where Kavanaugh molested her. Her friend said she was never at any such party where Kavanaugh was present. With all the problems with her testimony you can only believe her if you want to believe her. An open mind can not believe her.

Have you seen today's headlines? The FBI met with the DNC before the created they fake dossier that let them spy on a United States citizen for political purposes. Nice bunch of people those democrats. Reminds me more of China and Russia. Where is that judge that signed off on the FBI wire tapping the Trump organization?


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## speckline

KEN W said:


> Back to my question.....why aren't Republicans pushing to have THEIR president to release his tax returns? Could it be he is hiding something? uke:


No, not at all. We just don't care. If there was an issue, then a certain Federal Agency would audit and if they found anything against the law, then they would file charges and levy fines.
You may have heard of them, they are called the IRS. If you remember correctly, they are the same federal agency that was attacking conservatives under the Obongo administration! :sniper:


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## KEN W

If everything is so hunky dory and he has nothing to hide,why doesn't he release them? :eyeroll:

"we don't care?????" you don't care about possible criminal activity???? :******:


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## Plainsman

I thought he did release his taxes as far back as people had asked for. I think now they are going back to his father. Also, is their a requirement to release their taxes or is this just another liberal hope for smear ammo?


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## huntin1

KEN W said:


> If everything is so hunky dory and he has nothing to hide,why doesn't he release them? :eyeroll:
> 
> "we don't care?????" you don't care about possible criminal activity???? :ticked:


So you don't believe that the IRS is capable of finding evidence of criminal wrongdoing in the Income Tax forms of President Trump that they are already in possession of?

With the number of liberals that are present in all levels and all departments within the Federal system I'm quite confident that someone in the IRS has already reviewed these documents and cannot find any criminal wrongdoing. Until something happens to the contrary I'm really not concerned about them.


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## Plainsman

> With the number of liberals that are present in all levels and all departments within the Federal system I'm quite confident that someone in the IRS has already reviewed these documents and cannot find any criminal wrongdoing. Until something happens to the contrary I'm really not concerned about them.


 :thumb: No kidding. What pile of steaming bs. The IRS was targeting conservatives during the Obama administration. Like the media and perhaps the FBI now the IRS is sort of another arm of the DNC. You can bet your life that they went over Trumps tax returns with a fine tooth comb. I don't put it past them to try manufacture something. Much like Ford's letter.


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## KEN W

He has NOT released his tax returns.....he has been using the excuse of being audited since the primaries.....over 2 years to complete an audit. The IRS must have the slowest agents in government. The steaming pile of bull sh*t is in the White House.


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## Chuck S

everyone... I am back! Had to use a different name and new account. Still haven't heard back from anyone on my password issue on old account (chuck Smith)&#8230; anyways...

A couple things...

Nobody mentioned about how the new trade deal with Canada and mexico is a win for the USA. Sorry Cunuck&#8230; but I know dairy farmers in my area are very happy!!

Now onto the tax returns.....

Ken do you think Mueller hasn't looked at them or been looking at them?? Almost every person he has pressed charges against has been about taxes.

Now lets again recap what Trump has done for the country (not his personal BS on twitter)
- Lowered Taxes for all
- Corp. Lower taxes (which by a WSJ piece said it has almost already paid for itself)
- US out of paris accord and hopefully will level the playing field and not be once sided with the USA on climate change.
- Restructured NAFTA to be more USA friendly
- Has NK talking to the US about denecularization.
- got soilder remains back from NK
- Cutting aid to Palestinians (IRAN deal from years ago)
- Economy (stock market up) (GDP up close to 4%) (unemployment lowest in years)...remember Obama said get used to 1% GDP
- Cutting government waste (some fed employees might not be happy)
- Trade deal with Europe (Italy says they will buy more beans)
- Tariffs (you see how china is starting to back down.... will they cave??? remember Tradue said they wouldn't give)
- making it so federal employee's can have a choice if they want to join the union or not.

Lots of good. Just his "social" manners are not even on the board. We all can agree on that. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

Just read last night about how Trump wants to life the "ban" on E15 fuel so it can be used year round. I don't know what to think about this.

The ethanol craze is what got the farm market out of whack with the inflated prices of corn then that led to inflated prices in land, in puts, machinery, etc. So I don't know how to take this....

What are some farmers take? I know he is trying to do it to help with the price of corn. But will this "inflate" everything again? Or will it only be a slight increase in the price of corn? Thoughts???


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## KEN W

He needs to remove corn ethanol subsidies. Let the market decide the price of corn. Isn't that supposed to be the republican way....No gov. interference? Guess not. We are the worlds largest oil producer. Just passed Russia. We don't need ethanol. Put the money into conservation practices for farmers.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> He needs to remove corn ethanol subsidies. Let the market decide the price of corn. Isn't that supposed to be the republican way....No gov. interference? Guess not. We are the worlds largest oil producer. Just passed Russia. We don't need ethanol. Put the money into conservation practices for farmers.


 :beer: I have been saying that since I was a kid on the farm. At that time we had a program called soil bank. My perspective is these programs provide an income while providing habitat and recreation while reducing surplus and in turn bringing up commodity prices.


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## KEN W

Yes.....I hunted pheasants in both SD and ND during the soil bank years. :bartime:


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## huntin1

KEN W said:


> He has NOT released his tax returns.....he has been using the excuse of being audited since the primaries.....over 2 years to complete an audit. The IRS must have the slowest agents in government. The steaming pile of bull sh*t is in the White House.


He doesn't have to release them, the IRS already has them. They can review them at will. I'm betting that someone there has already done so and failed to find anything.


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## KEN W

That's what he has been saying for 2 years.....why doesn't he release them to us just like EVERY past president has?

What is he afraid of? :huh:


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## Plainsman

Like every other president??? Obama wouldn't even let us see his birth certificate. No one has seen his college records. He was going to habe the most transparent admin ever. Right? He had the most secretive ever, and now those same democrats that defended Obama's secrets want something that is at the presidents digression. If this goes as normal Trump will let them go nuts and while they do he will complete a few more accomplishments. Then he will let the democrats see his tax returns that will give them nothing. After that someone in the administration will leak more to fire up the democrats, but it will all be bait. They will never catch on. Not this term, or president Trumps next term.


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## KEN W

You and I just will not agree on a lot of things. I don't see any of those things happening. Here is how I see the future .....I see the Dems taking over the House. Maybe even the Senate. Muellers investigation will gut the Trump family. His kids will be in court for tax evasion and lieing to the FBI.With the house in Dem hands, Trump will get nothing passed. Republicans will be crying in their beers because of the lame duck in the Whitehouse. If the Dems can get the Senate, Trump will be isolated on an island.Trump will be a one term loser. For the first time in 2020 a woman will be the next president.


----------



## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> You and I just will not agree on a lot of things. I don't see any of those things happening. Here is how I see the future .....I see the Dems taking over the House. Maybe even the Senate. Muellers investigation will gut the Trump family. His kids will be in court for tax evasion and lieing to the FBI.With the house in Dem hands, Trump will get nothing passed. Republicans will be crying in their beers because of the lame duck in the Whitehouse. If the Dems can get the Senate, Trump will be isolated on an island.Trump will be a one term loser. For the first time in 2020 a woman will be the next president.


Put that in a movie and it will make Rosemary's Baby look like a children's bedtime tale. . Yikes I hope I can sleep tonight.


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## Chuck Smith

> You and I just will not agree on a lot of things. I don't see any of those things happening. Here is how I see the future .....I see the Dems taking over the House. Maybe even the Senate. Muellers investigation will gut the Trump family. His kids will be in court for tax evasion and lieing to the FBI.With the house in Dem hands, Trump will get nothing passed. Republicans will be crying in their beers because of the lame duck in the Whitehouse. If the Dems can get the Senate, Trump will be isolated on an island.Trump will be a one term loser. For the first time in 2020 a woman will be the next president.


AND IS THIS HOW YOU RUN A COUNTRY???? uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:

Like I have said before.... it is horrible our politics has come to this childish stuff. If the above happens our nation is doomed!!! Because it will be "what comes around goes around" mentality. Which is why Trump got voted in.

Ken...

Also from the list of accomplishments..... which ones do you think are crappy for the country???? (other people please add to the list if I missed some!)

Now lets again recap what Trump has done for the country (not his personal BS on twitter)
- Lowered Taxes for all
- Corp. Lower taxes (which by a WSJ piece said it has almost already paid for itself)
- US out of paris accord and hopefully will level the playing field and not be once sided with the USA on climate change.
- Restructured NAFTA to be more USA friendly
- Has NK talking to the US about denecularization.
- got soilder remains back from NK
- Cutting aid to Palestinians (IRAN deal from years ago)
- Economy (stock market up) (GDP up close to 4%) (unemployment lowest in years)...remember Obama said get used to 1% GDP
- Cutting government waste (some fed employees might not be happy)
- Trade deal with Europe (Italy says they will buy more beans)
- Tariffs (you see how china is starting to back down.... will they cave??? remember Tradue said they wouldn't give)
- making it so federal employee's can have a choice if they want to join the union or not.

Just saying..... if he is doing such a bad job.... what is it? Again nothing with his "twitter" blow hard talking BS.... his actual accomplishments??? We all know he is an ego maniac. He could break wind and it is the best, greatest, most amazing....and it would be tweeted. But his actual accomplishments he has done for this country? Which ones from above are bad????


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## Chuck Smith

I wish they would bring back soil bank or CRP programs like they were in the 80's and 90's. In MN I could go out any day of the week and get my 2 roosters and not hit the same land once that week. The state land was full of CRP and birds. Now we are lucky to even hear some crowing.

But yes the ethanol issue is one I am torn on. Because farmers need the possible increase in corn prices.... ie: keep them around $4.50 to $5.50 everyone is making money then. We don't need to see corn over $6! that is when things get crazy and stupid like it did a few years ago.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> 
> You and I just will not agree on a lot of things. I don't see any of those things happening. Here is how I see the future .....I see the Dems taking over the House. Maybe even the Senate. Muellers investigation will gut the Trump family. His kids will be in court for tax evasion and lieing to the FBI.With the house in Dem hands, Trump will get nothing passed. Republicans will be crying in their beers because of the lame duck in the Whitehouse. If the Dems can get the Senate, Trump will be isolated on an island.Trump will be a one term loser. For the first time in 2020 a woman will be the next president.
> 
> 
> 
> Put that in a movie and it will make Rosemary's Baby look like a children's bedtime tale. . Yikes I hope I can sleep tonight.
Click to expand...

Heck.....I have been able to sleep the last 2 year with The Walking Dead in the White house. :laugh:


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## KEN W

Chuck.....
Lowered taxes for the rich. Very little for the lower classes. But then what can you expect when the president is a multi billionaire businessman out to protect his own.
From what I have heard and read.....very little of the business tax cuts are going to employees.
NK has more nucs now than it did 2 years ago. 
Shouldn't we be treating Palestinians the same as Israeles. Maybe then they wouldn't be calling us "The Great Satan."
There is no trade deal with Europe. Just tariffs on our goods.
China isn't backing down, they have increased tariffs
Soybean farmers will be in a bigtime hurt with our China policies.
Our immigration policies are a mess

Trump will have almost a completely different cabinet next year. Almost everyone has been replaced. I'm guessing more to come. Sessions, Rosenstein, and Haley are going to go at the beginning of next year. Who's next? They are leaving because they don't agree with Trumps policies.


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## Chuck Smith

tax cuts for employeers are creating jobs and grown. Like I said before a WSJ article stated that the corporate taxes have almost paid for themselves already!

So if a person makes 10,000, 100,000 or 1,000,000 and if each gets a 1% cut..... of course the "rich" person gets more money back it is basic math. Everyone got a tax cut. The top 1% got deductions taken away. Why is NY so up in arms about the property tax deduction can only be that amount, charitable donations capped, etc. Again I can go back to our tax cut thread and bring up the numbers!!! Please don't sound like Pelosi and say crumbs. A tax cut is a tax cut. Heck I only am saving $200 a year.... it is still a savings.

NK is talking with the USA.... they didn't before.

China.... when I posted that before I read an article where they cut back some of it's tariffs, they decreased the amount, still tariffs but lower amount. Are they wavering?? Today the talk is about natural gas.... China gets most of it from the USA and with the tariffs we have in place if they go to another market they will pay more. Only thing they don't know is if they have a reserve so it wont matter for this winter.... so who knows. (Remember Tradue said he was done with USA...and came back to the table)

EU Trade deal.... buying more beans and N. Gas.... 
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... e-deal-eu/

On the Palestinians.... much of that money was going towards terror. But after what happened today... we need to see what is the ramification.

So again..... not all DOOM AND GLOOM that many people are saying. You are falling for all the talking heads out there.... especially the taxes.

The ones I am watching is the Palestinian state and also China.... it isn't over yet. But watching what happened with NAFTA.... we will have to see.


----------



## KEN W

Stock market drops over 800 points. Third largest drop in history. And it's down another 100 right now.Maybe all this spouting off about how good the economy is will come to an end. Since Trump took credit for all the stock market rising in the past 2 years, will he now take credit for it falling? We shall see I guess.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Lots of people are saying the falling is happening because of interest rate hikes.... I remember last week that Trump came out and said that a hike was "premature" and "not needed".....

But again what has been the average for the past 2 years?

I am not saying look out or the sky is falling at all right now or that everything is perfectly fine. But awhile ago the market dropped something like 500 pts.... it rebounded like crazy. A one day drop or a two day drop isn't anything to worry about..... worry when it becomes a trend or drops by 5000pts. :beer:

edit....
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ ... id=DELLDHP



> President Donald Trump criticized the Fed's strategy on more than one occasion on Wednesday, saying that the central bank was "making a mistake" by raising rates. In a telephone interview with Fox News later that day, he said he wasn't happy with the Fed, and that it was "going loco" and there was no reason for them to continue to raise rates at the pace they were doing.





> *Worries over fast-rising interest rates *and a steep tech rout sent U.S. equities tumbling on Wednesday. International markets also fell on Thursday. Asia-Pacific stocks saw sharp declines by the region's market close, while European shares tumbled.


So Ken.... are you one of the people who will blame the president for the hurricanes like others tried? oke:

***Edit again***
I personally think interest rates do need to go up to help stabilize everything. Growth is great but housing is starting to get out of hand again..... another bubble in the future???


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## KEN W

Market drops another 500 points.

No Chuck.....but if Trump takes ALL the credit (as he does for everything good) for the rise, Then he sure as all should take credit for the fall.1300 points in 2 days..... Shouldn't he?? As I said.....we will see.

Here is a prediction I saw..........

"Stocks could fall 40% to 50% to reach fair value, with recession in first half of 2019: Morgan Street Capital."

Do you suppose Trump will be a man and stand up and take the blame? NOT....He will be his normal self and blame someone else. About time this guy sheds his teflon skin that he has with all far right.

If this continues......Kavanaugh will be totally forgotten by election day.


----------



## Plainsman

Ken the Fed raised interest rates. Trump says raising it to slow things down a little is a good idea, but he thinks they raised it to much. I think the raise would be ok if not for all the chicken little that start crying the sky is falling. The Fed got a little carried away.

The good economy is due to the elimination of job killing, profit killing regulations imposed on our socialist business hating president. Obama would chop the head off the goose that lays golden eggs. His view was everyone would love us if we were an equal third world crap hole.


----------



## KEN W

Yup.....that's Trump's excuse. Not his fault. The teflon man lives on. So if guessers are correct and we enter a recession next year......what will his excuse be then? After all nothing is his fault. Same old, same old. It's always Obama's fault.Even though Republicans have controlled all branches of government for almost 2 years. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## Plainsman

I have not heard him blame anyone. Why should he, it's never been this good. Another conservative on the supreme court next year and maybe we can even recover from being the godless nation democrats created. It was clear Obama and Holder were at war with Christianity.


----------



## Plainsman

This morning an economist was explaining the Fed. During the Obama administration they kept the interest low to try stimulate the economy. That was good for some people, but it really hurt the retired who live off their savings interest. When the economy is going like a rocket the Fed raises interests to slow it down. As they explained no president wants the Fed to raise interest rates because it makes them look bad. It's a necessary thing to slow growth and prevent a crash later. This is something we all should have expected, and we should also not be surprised by the dip in the market. I am surprised that some hate Trump so much they want the country to fail. Liberals are happy about the dip. I don't feel either way it's just economic reality.


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## KEN W

Where did you see that liberals are happy with the drop in the market. I as well as you probably lost money yesterday when the market dropped. Why in the world would anybody be happy about that if they have savings in the market.

I am and have been a Democrat for over 40 years. We did not create a godless nation. :******:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken....

I find it very funny how you said "blame Obama"..... what went on for 8 years... "Blame Bush".... :eyeroll: No president takes blame for anything.

But like I mentioned.... it is good to raise rates because it will stabilize things.

It will also raise "rate of return" if you are not fully vested in the stock market. Typically when stocks go down... bonds and treasury bills go up (the past two days they didn't)&#8230; but typically they do. Then things such as annuities will also climb. Remember the saying do keep all your eggs in one basket. :beer:


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## KEN W

Chuck......I think you mean do not keep all your eggs in one basket. We don't.

Tell me something that Bush did that was good for us? Basically nothing. But then he did almost nothing that was bad either except for one huge thing......Taking out Saddam was a HUGE mistake.

No weapons of mass destruction found. Saddam was a criminal. But then so are a lot of dictators. BUT he was a Huge buffer against Iran. Sunni vs Shiites. After we left, Shiites took over the government and would not allow any of Saddam's Sunni army to exist. They lost pensions and could not get jobs again. His officers then decided to form their own country in northern Iraq and weakened Syria.

They became ISIS. Almost all the leaders of ISIS are former Republican Guard officers. If Saddam was still there, there would be no ISIS. And Saddam would be blocking Iranian expansion. One of the worst decisions ever made by a president. Of course Bush took the advise of the intelligence services. So not totally his fault. But it was still his decision.It was bad advice and we are paying for that decision today.


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## Plainsman

Intelligence in the US, France, England etc all goofed on Iraq. Bush and Congress both goofed when it comes to Iraq.



> I am and have been a Democrat for over 40 years. We did not create a godless nation. :ticked:


 Sure they did. Liberal organizations like the ACLU and Democrat politicians outlawed school prayer. They booted God from the schools, from the court houses, from the city streets and public lands where they have torn down crossed and statues. They say we offend people. Even liberal churches like the ELCA twist the Bible to fit their perversions of truth. They are not Christian in the true sense of the word. Christian believe the Bible.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

There was some great farm bills that the Dem's didn't want to pass.... because they didn't want to compromise. Remember they held the majority for a few years. It would have increased CRP and other programs.

Medicare part D.... was on his watch.

Perscription benefits in medicare

HSA's - Health Savings Accounts (which are a good thing... especially if interest on them can get to 5%!)

Reduced Nukes with Russia

YOu as a teacher should know these two... and some people think good and many think bad....but...

-No child left behind

-Teacher Protection Act

Iraq... yes agreed everyone dropped the ball on that one.

But look what happened.... 9/11. Any president would have reacted the same way. Remember the last time an "invasion" happened on American soil..... we went into WWII. So he had to do a war on terror.... which meant go after what we did. Granted now look at what happened in the aftermath.... yep wrong decision. But it was what was needed at the time.

Lots of his other stuff was trying to bring back the economy against the housing bust, dot com bust, etc.


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## KEN W

Ok Chuck.....some good things with Bush.

9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. That was Afghanistan. I don't remember Saddam exporting terrorism. Bush sent the military into Iraq because of WMD. He took out the 1 deterrence there was against Iran. They are the ones exporting terrorism. Saddam should have been left alone.Now we have ISIS who would not be in existence if Saddam was still there. His Republican Guard would still be in Iraq and not in ISIS. Like I said.....One of the worst decisions any president has ever made. But I do recognize that our intelligence services gave him bad intel.

You are correct with No Child Left Behind. That was fine for normal kids. Made the schools get their rears in gear. ND and Minn didn't have the problems that was made to correct. Good schools here. HOWEVER....as a Special Ed teacher. It was a nightmare. Handicapped kids had to meet the same standards. That was ridiculous. Not possible. They already had Individual Education Programs required for every kid. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith

> You are correct with No Child Left Behind. That was fine for normal kids. Made the schools get their rears in gear. ND and Minn didn't have the problems that was made to correct. Good schools here. HOWEVER....as a Special Ed teacher. It was a nightmare. Handicapped kids had to meet the same standards. That was ridiculous. Not possible. They already had Individual Education Programs required for every kid. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


Agree with you 100% on so many levels with this... It also made "gifted" or "smart kids"... actually didn't get the push they needed or the instruction from teachers. Because the teachers were stuck trying to get "every" kid to pass the tests. Also with the Special ed.... If you didn't know I have a twin brother who has cerebral palsy. So I know what you are talking about with that.

I have 3 teachers in my family and when the no child left be hind got enacted. They all said it is good in theory.... but wanted to see how it would be implemented. Implementation was horrible. All of my family taught upper/advanced math. So they were not as handcuffed as others.


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## Plainsman

Wow a lot of teachers around. My mother was a teacher, my mother in law, my brother, his wife, and although we never taught my wife and I both had teaching degrees. My degree was plan C. My brother taught something called Title one or two or something like that. He put in 41 years, and his wife 39. They really disliked the very liberal brain washing at the N D Teachers Association. Often material to pick up for free was anti hunting, and firearms control. At least there was a lot of that the year I attended. My brother was always irritated that they pushed a liberal agenda. Some fellow teachers didn't agree, but that was because they were so far left it looked moderate to them.

Ken, I was ELCA for 39 years. I was vice president of the church council and attended synod assemblies. So I use them as an example of a church gone off the rails.
https://www.exposingtheelca.com


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## KEN W

Yes.....teachers taught the test. Because failure was not an option. Either you made the grade or the state would come in and take over. The biggest problems with that were the schools on the reservations. I taught in Dunseith for 6 years and we were 96% Native. They were good kids, but learning was tough.All those kids wanted to do was play basketball.

Plainsman.....I understand about the NDEA. It was the NEA that was so liberal. Not the NDEA and teachers who lived out here. I wanted input into school matters especially contract negotiations. So I had to join the local. It was mandatory to join the State and National. The state also provided liability insurance and representation in non-renewal matters. I wanted those so I put up with having to join the NEA. It was worth it for me. 1 bad thing against 3 things I felt I needed or wanted.

I negotiated with the board quite a few times.I also especially wanted the liability insurance and representation in a non renewal.


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## Plainsman

Trump negotiated the release of the pastor in prison in Turkey. About time.


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## Plainsman

If I remember correctly Obama didn't even ask for his release. But then he didn't have national prayer day at the Whitehouse either. Hmmmm I think he had it one year and invited Muslims. Hmmm wonder why he left that pastor to rot in Turkey?

Couple of Obama quotes: "I will stand with the Muslims"

"The most beautiful sound in the world is the Muslim call to prayer"

I probably didn't get that right word for word, but the first quote is from his book and the second from his mouth.


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## north1

Obama during the 2008 presidential campaign at a fundraiser held in Philadelphia stated about republicans "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun." Must be his Chicago roots talking. LOL. But seriously, how can anyone fault Trump for his statements when the left has some doozies of their own? And what about the gun control mantra he espoused and espouses?


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## Plainsman

Watch the demonstrations and they will tell you who is violent. ANTIFA is crazy. Hillary says we will not have civility again until the democrats are back in power. Was that a threat? The only reason we would have civility then is because conservatives don't go nuts like liberals and start violence.


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## KEN W

Sorry guys NOT .....but the FAR right Tea Party brought AR 15's to Demo back in the 90's. Sure sound violent to me. Didn't see any of those women at the Capital carrying guns last week.

How about this by the Walking Dead President

" If we had not mocked Ford.....We would not have won."

"Doesn't matter. We won."

This jerk does not belong at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. How insensitive can you get? As long as He gets his way. He doesn't care about anyone, just himself. It's always.....me, me, me. Just like a little brat. The end always justify's the means with this guy. :down: :down:

Too bad conservatives could not find another candidate that could do the things you claim he has done without all the baggage. :eyeroll:


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## north1

To be brutally honest. If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone mock Ford(the accuser woman) in the last month I would, well, have a stack of money. Not even close to as much as her $800,000+ go fund me account, but enough to buy a few steak dinners. Most everyone I know, in fact everyone I have heard comment on it that I know have all said stated she is a political hustler or worse. I will just leave it at that. But to each there own.


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## Plainsman

> Sorry guys NOT .....but the FAR right Tea Party brought AR 15's to Demo back in the 90's. Sure sound violent to me. Didn't see any of those women at the Capital carrying guns last week.


Ken if a guy that is 300 lb 6 ft 6 inches and all muscle is he violent. Are all women a prostitute simply because they have a vagina? The Tea Party carried unloaded firearms and there was zero violence.



> How about this by the Walking Dead President
> 
> " If we had not mocked Ford.....We would not have won."
> 
> "Doesn't matter. We won."


 I don't know perhaps he woke up conservatives that were to dense to see she was a puppet being used and tossed aside by the democrats. Shameful. The democrats treated Kavanaugh and Ford shamefully.



> This jerk does not belong at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.


 Most people with more money to spend would disagree with you. The prisoners from North Korea and Turkey would not agree with you. The people who look at the current state of our economy would not agree with you. Obama drove this nation so far in the hole I didn't think we would ever recover. I'm not sure we will, but now there is some hope.


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## KEN W

Sorry.....the only shameful things were how the GOP Senators and the Walking Dead President treated her. :eyeroll


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## north1

One of us is waaaayyyy off base. Maybe it's me. I saw the GOP senators treat her with kid gloves and with nothing but respect. For someone to have zero proof about a very serious allegation they were far too "nice". They even had a women prosecutor ask her questions so as not to cause undo stress. The prosecutor handled her questions in about as benign a way as I have ever witnessed a lawyer do. They should have grilled her HARD. I mean dissected her story into a million pieces and reconstructed it to show what a complete farse it was. Though shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor!!!


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Sorry.....the only shameful things were how the GOP Senators and the Walking Dead President treated her. :eyeroll


You mean prior when they offered to meet her in California because she said she was afraid to fly? Which was a lie. Do you mean because they got a woman to ask her questions so she wouldn't be stressed by a man asking her questions? Do you mean when they told her to let them know any time she wanted a break. Do you mean when they agreed to let it go an extra couple weeks because she needed time? Oooor do you mean because they didn't kiss up to her after it was obvious she was a liar or a psycho. I think she was willing to destroy someone she didn't even know because he is moderate, believes in interpreting the constitution without bias rather than legislate radical left agendas from the bench.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken,

In the aftermath..... I can see your point. But again... we haven't seen what they saw from the FBI investigation. Maybe the "witnesses" that were brought up told more than we know. Like was she more of a "loose" cannon than pictured? Then the whole witness tampering.... we have no clue what was found out about that. Was her ex boyfriend interviewed and told how she knew how to beat a polygraph test and what not? What about the second door thing? Was it BS or was it truthful?..... again we don't know anything in that report. Which could be the reason the GOP and the President are making the comments they are now. The Dem's and the media didn't hold back before the hearing and investigation.

But like plainsman stated.... before the whole fiasco of the hearing.... the GOP did treat her with kid gloves. They offered lots of stuff that either her lawyers didn't reply to her about or someone else. In her testimony she even said it would have been nice for them and she would have hosted them to come to her. Which if you want to look back Grassley publicly in an interview with the media did offered to come to CA! Before the Senator's hired the female questioner.... the media, the left, etc all came out and said they don't want a bunch of "angry white men" to interview her. They didn't want another "anita hill" fiasco of white men grilling with questions. So when they hire a female to do it the media, the left brands them "cowards". uke:

So again.... what was in that report? We don't know. But from the outside looking in from the preliminary it looks like the GOP did a lot to try and make her more comfortable and try not to make it the circus that it was. :bop:

Ken,

I agree with you 100% about the AR's. They were not needed. It was an "intimidation" thing. Just like when the Black Panthers stood outside of voting booths or any other group. It is all trying to "intimidate" people. Which is wrong on so many levels. It is the same thing now we are seeing with ANTIFA. Which is all BS.


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## KEN W

Judge threw out Stormy Daniel's lawsuit versus Trump.

Then came a Twitter war of words. The best line????

Stormy Daniels.....May I present your president. In addition to his Shortcomings :laugh: Game on TINY :laugh:

Guess what she means by that? She would know. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## speckline

As many times as Stormy has been ridden, you'd have to slap a board on your arse to keep from falling in!! :rollin:


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## KEN W

yup......you are correct.Do suppose Trump had a board on his?...still funny calling Trump "Tiny." Especially after all the name calling he did to his opponents in the campaign and since being sworn in to his adversaries. Have to call him "Tiny Trump" now. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


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## Plainsman

I can see the humor. I also see humor in the judge ordering her to pay Trumps legal fees.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken,

The funny thing that got me. Is that it was a suit about defamation.... and then trump turns around and calls her names. :eyeroll:

But the twitter war is kind of funny IMHO. Both of them taking verbal jabs. The best thing for Trump to do is just sit silent and collect his check from her to pay his legal fees.


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## north1

That won't happen. Like my son says "Trump has no filter."


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## Chuck Smith

https://freebeacon.com/politics/two-gop ... minnesota/

Two republican candidates attacked!

So this isn't "mob" behavior????


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## Plainsman

> The Minnesota Democratic Party has suspended a spokesman for calling for violence against Republicans even as two GOP candidates have been assaulted in suspected politically motivated attacks.


When Hillary said there will be no civility until democrats take back government the only conclusion was she was threatening. The conservatives have a few far right, but still it's the moderate left that is violent. I guess uncivilized parasites don't have a conscience. For the record I'm not just calling names. Socialism and communism are parasitic. It's the lazy or inept preying on the productive.


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## KEN W

Trumps lawyer Giuliani the clown.(only difference is he doesn't have face paint on) said Trump can change his stories because..... He's "Not under oath."

"it's not a crime if Trump continues to lie to the American People." He basically says...."Yes, the President isn't telling the truth....So What?"

What Bullsh*t.......I can't believe Republicans can go along with this. That's his own lawyer making those statements. uke: uke:

I am actually starting to hope Tiny doesn't get impeached. Democrats can beat him in 2020 easier that say Vice president Pence if he is the incumbent.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken....

So we need to hold all politicians to what they say on the campaign trail??? Or we charge them with a crime?

Again I don't like that he lies, exaggerates, etc. But again... it is a politician... it isn't under oath so it can't be "criminal". Do I like it no. But is it a crime... NO. Just like do you like the guy who always tells "fish stories"... NOPE.

edit:

You keep eluding the fact that there was a Non-Disclosure agreement. This is huge in defense for trump. even thought it has proven "invalid" by Avanetti. But if Trump thought it was valid. He was abiding by it. hence... deny, deny, deny. Because if he came out before avanetti disproved the validity of it. Stormy would have been ready for a huge pay day. Same thing with McDougal.

So yeah... the lying is horrible and wrong. But isn't a crime.


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## KEN W

Threat of Gov't shutdown if Trump doesn't get his wall.....Trump said nonstop that Mexico would pay for it. We are still waiting for this promise. Where's the money President Trump???? Taxpayers will pay for it as usual. Another lie to get elected.


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## Chuck Smith

We could go all day about presidential lies on the campaign trail, pushing legislation, etc.

How many times have we heard "no new taxes".... yet new taxes come out. How many times have we heard we are going to cut spending.... yet spending keeps increasing. How many times have we heard.... I will get the US workers more jobs.... yet not many have full filled those promises.

Like I said we can write 100 Pages of lies presidents or congressmen and congresswoman have said on the campaign trail.

Yet that isn't a crime!!! It goes towards them on the next election cycle :beer: . But it isn't a crime!!! the only time lying is a crime is under oath. Which happens when interviewed by FBI, DOJ, in a Court setting, etc. That is when lying is a CRIME. But otherwise it isn't.

So right now in the Mueller investigation all they have is him lying about the "hush money".... *which both things the hush money and lying are not crimes.* The only "crime" is if the money some how violated campaign finance laws. Which if it came out of Trumps pocket... NO CRIME. If it came from somewhere else... possibly. Then if it is found to be a crime.... it isn't an impeachable offense. It is pay a fine. Just like it has been established by prior elected officials.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

About the government shut down over the "wall". Did you know Shummer, Pelosi, even Obama (when a senator) and other Democrats all voted/wanted a "wall" or "fencing" before Trump took office. So now since it is Trumps wishes they are bucking against it. It just shows you how corrupt/out of whack the whole Political spectrum is right now. And yes you can say the same thing about Republicans. Nobody is safe from what I am seeing. They all are @#$%-ed up.

The sad part is when Bush was president it became a great political move to "blame bush" or "resist bush". then when Obama became president the same thing... blame or block. Now the same thing. It is total BS!


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## Plainsman

The democrats always blame the republicans for a shutdown. I think the reason Trump had cameras at his meeting with Pelosi and Schummer was to get the idea to the people that it can be either sides, or both sides fault for a shutdown. I think that move put the ball in the democrat court. This time even with all the media lies the public that can think even a little bit will not blame the republicans. The only thing that can stop Trump is egotistic butt hurt republicans, like the hero turned backstabber McCain was.


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## Chuck Smith

The one thing I got kind of frustrated with on that whole thing was how Shummer kept looking to the camera. He was trying to play to the media. I will give Pelosi credit... she was kind of more engaging with the president. She was uncomfortable with the cameras around but she seemed that she wanted to discuss. Shummer wanted to grandstand.


----------



## Plainsman

Also both Pelosi and Shummer wanted to continue in private. The only reason for that would be to let the media tell the story rather than let the people see it for themselves. The opposite of transparency. They wanted to hide, then misrepresent what actually may happen.


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## KEN W

Who's going to pay for the wall????? Not Mexico. Any wall if there is one will be paid by us, the US taxpayers. uke: uke:

US courts in New York have shut down the Trump Family Trust. Why.....Prosecutors say it was...... "little more than a checkbook to serve Mr. Trump's business and political interests." She said the president's family and his campaign used the foundation as a personal slush fund. Including $30,000 in charity money for 2 portraits of himself and using money on his own campaign. uke: uke:

Part of the settlement is that TINY has to give away all of it's assets that the DA approves.

And don't bring up the Clinton Foundation. They are not who were being prosecuted in NY.


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## Chuck Smith

So finance laws....which we have known about. Which again isn't an impeachable offense....

WHERE IS THE COLLUSION???

Also don't bring up the letter signed in 2015 to "green light" a Russian real estate project. He was working a real estate deal. He has hotels, casinos, etc around the world.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Who's going to pay for the wall????? Not Mexico. Any wall if there is one will be paid by us, the US taxpayers. uke: uke:
> 
> Ken I think your letting your anger cloud your reason. If we impose higher tariffs or impose other restriction on Mexico, yes the taxpayer pays today, but the recoup that expense. Now they talk of giving Mexico 4.8 billion to take care of the refugees in Mexico. That will cost taxpayers every yearr instead of one year. The sheer stupidity makes a Christian wonder about the blindness of our politicians.
> 
> US courts in New York have shut down the Trump Family Trust. Why.....Prosecutors say it was...... "little more than a checkbook to serve Mr. Trump's business and political interests." She said the president's family and his campaign used the foundation as a personal slush fund. Including $30,000 in charity money for 2 portraits of himself and using money on his own campaign. uke: uke: That depends on what kind of trust it is. I have farm friends that have a trust with their children set up to protect their inheritance. It is like their checkbook until they die. Simply because Trump is rich does that mean he deserves less?
> 
> Part of the settlement is that TINY has to give away all of it's assets that the DA approves. I think this is a personal vendetta fueled by ego and jealousy. Such petty little thugs.
> 
> And don't bring up the Clinton Foundation. They are not who were being prosecuted in NY.


 I'll bring it up not about location, but to draw the difference. Trump earned his money through his business and wise decisions. Hillary earned many of their million by approving the sale of uranium to Americas enemies so they can build more bombs to kill us.


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## Chuck Smith

Plainsman....

Great point about the 10 billion the US is giving to other countries to "stop emigration"..... we are giving it to some politically corrupt countries. Where will that money be spent?? Lets hope infrastructure and things of that to keep people from feeling the need to "FLEE" a country. But we will see. But instead they could have given 5 billion for a "wall". I know the wall doesn't cure or totally curb illegal immigration or fix the problem in these other countries. But I hate to say this.... It isn't our problem in those other countries to fix. We got enough issues in our own to worry about.


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## KEN W

Chuck Smith said:


> So finance laws....which we have known about. Which again isn't an impeachable offense....
> 
> WHERE IS THE COLLUSION???
> 
> Also don't bring up the letter signed in 2015 to "green light" a Russian real estate project. He was working a real estate deal. He has hotels, casinos, etc around the world.


 Chuck......I did not say 1 word about collusion. The court decision did not say anything about collusion. This was not about collusion. As the DA said.....the Trump family used this as a "slush fund." Not everything this guy and his family does illegally is about collusion. So we should ignore all this garbage they do????

Plainsman......Any money in taxes or tariffs goes to the Treasury. Not to pay for a wall. Trump says he wants money in the budget to go directly to building his 15th century Great Wall of China. There are better ways to spend that money.

Example.....Now border agents are able to scan 1 in 5 vehicles coming. They are looking for drugs, illegal immigrants, firearms, would be terrorists, criminals etc. They say with less that 1/2 billion they can scan all of them. They need to hire a lot more agents. Speed up the deportation process, appoint more judges. Yes there are places where some kind of barrier needs to be built. But all of this can cost us taxpayers a whole lot less than the 20 billion Trumps wants.


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## Chuck Smith

> Now border agents are able to scan 1 in 5 vehicles coming. They are looking for drugs, illegal immigrants, firearms, would be terrorists, criminals etc. They say with less that 1/2 billion they can scan all of them. They need to hire a lot more agents. Speed up the deportation process, appoint more judges. Yes there are places where some kind of barrier needs to be built. But all of this can cost us taxpayers a whole lot less than the 20 billion Trumps wants.


This is the stuff is what should be done with the 10 billion we are sending to other countries. This would also help speed up the legal immigration for people.

:beer:


----------



## KEN W

Chuck Smith said:


> Now border agents are able to scan 1 in 5 vehicles coming. They are looking for drugs, illegal immigrants, firearms, would be terrorists, criminals etc. They say with less that 1/2 billion they can scan all of them. They need to hire a lot more agents. Speed up the deportation process, appoint more judges. Yes there are places where some kind of barrier needs to be built. But all of this can cost us taxpayers a whole lot less than the 20 billion Trumps wants.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the stuff is what should be done with the 10 billion we are sending to other countries. This would also help speed up the legal immigration for people.
> 
> :beer:
Click to expand...

Yes.... :thumb: :thumb:


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## Plainsman

Ditto here too :beer: .

Ken I know money from tariffs goes to the treasury. If Congress doesn't give Trump 5 billion but he does something that brings 5 billion to the treasury at Mexico's expense we break even. Perhaps even better than simply even. The only thing that destroys that is fools giving twice what the wall costs to countries that are the problem. History shows us walls work, but fools in Washington deny reality.


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## huntin1

This guy has raised over $4 million in 3 days, https://www.gofundme.com/TheTrumpWall

Hell, I think I'm going to donate.


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## Chuck Smith

^^^^

Huntn1... if that GoFundMe thing is true.... the number of people who dontated should show our elected officials the % of people who are in favor of a wall. Let alone the fact they will "help" fund it. This is real numbers not a "survey" of 1000 people then the data extrapolated to meet a political means (all parties do this which is BS and not a representation of the population). Because lots of those surveys will call either republican or democratic leaning area's to get the outcome they want. Anyways.... the GoFundMe pages show actual data because people pledge that money.


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## huntin1

As far as I know it is legitimate. This is from that page:



> • How do you know this is not a scam? I'm using my real name, my real information, you can contact me and hold me accountable. People who try to scam you will not be upfront with their information, they will hide and not use their name. I have a public figure Facebook page with a blue check mark issued by facebook that verifies my identity. I'm a retired United States Air Force member who was wounded in Iraq, and lost 3 limbs. I have a website BrianKolfage.com where you can verify more about me. I will respond. I've been on Fox News many times, you can see I'm credible and a real person. The Gary Sinise Foundation also built me and my family a home. Do your research before donating, and contact me if you have any questions.
> 
> • How will we get the funds to the right place? We have contacted the Trump Administration to secure a point of contact where all the funds will go upon completion. When we get this information secured we will update. We have many very high level contacts already helping.
> 
> • Republican Representative Steven Palazzo of Mississippi is introducing legislation to direct the Treasury Department to issue government savings bonds which would allow us to fund the wall with this method. This is just one option, there are others on the table being discussed.
> 
> • 100% of your donations will go to the Trump Wall.
> 
> • We are working with a law firm on a legal document that will bind the government to using the funds for the border wall itself, nothing else.
> 
> • We will hold all funds and not release a single penny until we have all legal aspects covered to ensure our money goes only to the wall.
> 
> • If we don't reach our goal or come significantly close we will refund every single penny. We are working on a time frame to achieve.
> 
> LET'S GET THIS WALL BUILT! And make America Safe Again!


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## north1

Thanks for posting that info. I am torn. On one hand I want to donate as much as possible. On the other hand I look at my newly received land taxes which went up significantly due to local school "improvements". Then I had my pretax appointment and saw how much in state and federal taxes I am on the hook for. Then I pick up machinery parts and see the 8 1/2% sales tax. Then I think, what the he!!. This countries primary responsibly is to protect me from enemies/intruders foreign and domestic and I have to dig in my pockets for the umpteenth time to fund it personally? With commodity prices where they are at and the taxes I pay now I'm just coming up with lint in my pockets.


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## KEN W

To many people listening to Limbaugh and Coulter. Including Trump. It's not a good thing that the government shuts down because of Trump's Wall of China. There are better ways to spend OUR tax dollars. Since Mexico isn't paying for a wall. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## huntin1

Actually, building this wall with tax dollars is fiscally sound.



> According to a report published by Forbes, health care for 3.9 million illegal immigrants costs American taxpayers $18.5 billion annually. Of that total, $11.2 billion in federal taxes went to subsidizing care for illegal immigrants in 2016.
> 
> In response to a request from Congress, the Government Accounting Office (GAO) examined the costs of providing benefits and services to illegal immigrants. Its report focused on current estimates of the national net costs of illegal immigrants to all levels of government, the variation in these estimates, and areas where these estimates could be improved.
> 
> The GAO report found that illegal immigrants in the U.S. generate more in costs than revenues to federal, state and local governments combined. It estimated the national net cost of illegal immigrants ranging from $2 billion to $19 billion annually.


https://www.watchdog.org/national/repor ... d3b38.html

Cut off the benefits to those who aren't supposed to get them in the first place and the wall is paid for.

And that go fund me page above, it's up to $14.5 million after 5 days. Over 240 thousand people have donated. The people of this country want that wall and the Dems would be smart not to continue their obstructionist ways.


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## KEN W

I have not seen ANY poll on any media that says the majority of people want the wall.EVERY one is over 50% against the wall. There are better ways to spend MY tax dollars than building a wall. I do agree with eliminating all benefits to illegal immigrants. But Employers need to be fined for hiring illegals. No pay and no benefits would put a stop to this. This wall is a Trump boondoggle.


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## KEN W

1 week from today the Democrats take over the House with a 40 vote majority. Dems have no incentive to give in to Trump's demands.He will have to compromise in order to get anything for his WALL. He will have to agree to call it something else besides a wall in order to get anything. If he doesn't.....Senate Republicans will tell him they will override his veto.It's the only way a budget gets done.


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## Plainsman

Got out of the hospital yesterday. Still on two heavy duty pain killers. As numb as my brain is right now I see 70% of the American people want the wall. Trump has to stick to his guns and if the republicans try to override his veto they will pay a price. The democrats took the majority in the house, but the fastest way to give it back is to fight Trump on the wall. 
The federal employees will be paid. In a few weeks the lost labor which will be paid for will cost as much as Trump is asking for the wall. So why don't the democrats just give hi the $5 billion? Because the wall will work and democrats are childish poor loosers.


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## KEN W

Not sure where you are getting the idea that 70% of Americans favor Trump's wall of China. I googled polls on it and 8 articles came up.....ALL of them say Americans do not approve, Anywhere from 51% to %70 percent oppose it. Even residents of Texas oppose it.

He WILL NOT GET IT. Some in his own party don"t want it. There are a lot better ways to spend that money. Just because he screamed it at every pep rally in 2016 doesn't mean we all want it. Just trying to save face. OH YEAH.....he isn't saying Mexico will pay for it anymore. When will the lemmings figure out this guy is a pathological liar and not run over the cliff with him?


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## Plainsman

Ken you must be looking at polls from liberal think tanks. Most that I have seen are between 55 and 60%. Only seen one hit 70 a while ago.

The democrats throw money around as if it grows on trees, but they fight a comparatively small amount. Why? Multiple reasons I suspect. They think Hispanics will vote for them if the let in other Hispanics. I guess they see Hispanics as prejudiced and not smart enough to understand the illegals will take their jobs. Another reason is they oppose without thinking is a Republican supports it. Last and most important they oppose it because they hate anyone who took the presidency from Hillary. For nearly all politicians it's about power. They are Democrat or Republican before American. They all hate Trump because he is be holding to neither party. It's why the common person likes him.


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## north1

How can ANYONE, in their right mind support letting an illegal alien into our country? That illegal alien then murders a police officer who is a legal immigrant? A citizen with a wife and 5 month old son. A contributing member of society charged to serve and protect. I am not programmed to understand this type of mentality. I never will. This country is upside down. There are a lot of democrat as well as republican politicians that share this blood on their hands. I pray the Lord will have mercy on them. I freely admit I am trying but struggling to do so.


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## Plainsman

Anyone who doesn't support the wall plus other deterrents has this blood on their hands.


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## huntin1

Plainsman said:


> Anyone who doesn't support the wall plus other deterrents has this blood on their hands.


As well as the blood of many others who have been killed at the hands of illegals.

The Democrats are fond of saying things like, "if banning all firearms will save just one life, it is worth it."

Well then, if spending $5 billion on a wall keeps out violent illegal aliens and saves just one life, isn't it worth it?


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## Plainsman

They don't really give a crap about life. They care about power and forcing cake makers to celebrate their sodomy. They are sick. They are not tolerant, they hate. They undermine Christian values while celebrating worldly perversions. They are blood thirsty savages that murder in the womb. They are blind to reallity, and rationalize their own evil, which they can not see. They lack God given discernment.


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## KEN W

The wall will not be built. The money needs to be spent on other things.....more judges,more border patrol. faster deportation. We will NOT spend all the money Trump wants for his stupid campaign promise.

And I have no blood on my hands except for cleaning fish this morning.

I found all the polls on GOOGLE search engine. They All show Americans are OPPOSED to the stupid Wall of China that Trump wants.

Time for Trump to wake up and smell the coffee. Everything changes next week. All the dummy needs to do is not call it a wall. But that would totally go against his....I"m REALLY THE GREATEST PERSONA . I KNOW EVERYTHING.


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## Plainsman

https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/28/politics ... index.html
The fool democrats will spend more on investigations and other foolishness as the wall would cost. I have never seen such childishness.

As I was typing the news on tv reports there are eight illegals wanted for the murder of the policeman in California. That wall would have kept this father, husband, and policeman alive. The two kids who died in ICE custody would be alive too. People are dying while democrats play games, and I doubt they care.


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## huntin1

Oh great, more judges, so we can put the illegal immigrant criminals in our jails. Who pays for that again?

And they will stay there while unscrupulous attorneys milk the system filing appeal after appeal fighting deportation, yeah, we get to pay for the attorneys too, they're called public defenders and are paid for by our tax dollars.

Wouldn't it make more sense to keep them out of our country in the first place?

The Democrats in Washington are with you Ken, they don't want this wall either, it damages their future voter base.


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## Plainsman

On the Sunday new now: five years ago the democrats voted to fund 700 miles of wall on the border. Now they don't want to fund 250 miles. Five years ago Obama promised to sign the bill for 700 miles of fence. Further Obama and the democrats promised not another illegal alien until the wall was finished. 
So what's the problem now? It's all partisan. They look at 2020 and don't want Trump to have anymore success. They are putting their party and their power before their country and the security of its citizens which they have all sworn to defend. The most dangerous terrorists to America are the democrats.


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## KEN W

Wow......sounds like the Republican Party during the Obama years.....remember.....the PARTY OF NO

What goes around.....comes around. No wall.

Huntin.....Trump wants $5,000,000,000 for his Great Wall.....

How many more judges can we pay for with $5,000,000,000

How many more jails can we pay for with $5,000,000,000

How many more deportation buses can we pay for with $5,000,000,000

How many more border agents can we pay for with $5,000,000,000

Yup our tax dollars. Am I missing something? Like you said, more tax dollars. Aren't we paying those same tax dollars for Trumps Great Wall of China? Or are those dollars coming from some where else I'm not aware of?

How long will Your precious wall be? Will it cover the entire border????? 1000 to 2000 miles. If not, won't you be asking for another 5 billion and then another 5 billion and then another 5 billion etc.
And that's just for the wall. Doesn't include any other expenses.

The most dangerous Americans to our way of life are Republicans. All they care about is themselves and how much money is in their portfolio. I can see why the Republican Party has become the party of Trump. It's all about me,myself,and I.

It's the French Revolution and Marie Antoinette all over again..... "let em eat cake." Just remember.....she went to the guillotine and lost her head.


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## Plainsman

Ken I think it was 11 billion the democrats voted for seven years ago. The cost we pay for illegals in a single year would cover the five billion.

You think the republicans like money. I agree, but would remind you that a few years ago when they looked at the top ten richest Congress people nine were democrats. They have never done anything for the poor, but use them. However like I said I agree the republicans do like their money, but so do the democrats. You do remember I call our two party system Perverts and Money worshippers. The republicans will approve of nearly any business that makes a buck. The democrats will pervert the constitution, kill the unborn, and lust for the same sex. They are all sick puppies.


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## KEN W

Sorry.....but I am not a sick puppy. We just don't see politics the same way. And you are right to an extent. But I'm saying the Bernie Sanders far left and the Trump far right are the problems. Not all Dems are over there with Sanders, Including me.

I still say all that money(many many billions) can be better spent than on that wall Trump wants. In fact it can cost us taxpayers far less to use it on other things to strengthen our southern border and still have the same effect. I still say we need to keep those people out. Asylum isn't for people that just want a better job. I don't know the right amount.

I think Trump is correct in saying Mexico needs to do a better job. Just letting them come a 1,000 miles and not stopping them is ridiculous.

Now he is threatening to shut the entire border. Wouldn't that affect his business buddies from also getting and sending products across the border? Is that a really good idea?


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## huntin1

Except you don't need the judges, jails, deportation buses and border agents that your $5 billion dollars would buy if that money is spent on building a wall to keep those illegals out. And your plan perpetuates, you will always need more judges, jails, buses and agents, because the illegals keep coming. Build the wall and they can't get through anymore, at least not like they can without the wall.

You have your opinion, but there are a whole lot of people in this country that don't agree with you. Here's but one:



> Democrats: A plague on the nation
> 
> By Patricia McCarthy
> 
> How as Americans do we explain the intransigence of the left when it comes to national security? 'Tis a mystery. These people, these Democrats in Congress, are among the most privileged persons on the planet. They have enjoyed, more than most, the blessings bequeathed by the Founders, the authors of the Constitution. Yet they are determined, like Obama, to transform us into something this nation was never meant to be: a land without borders. While all of them are on record supporting a border wall in the past, now that Donald Trump is president, they all oppose it with every fiber of their being. They know that it will work, and they cannot abide Trump having a win. These people - Schumer, Pelosi, Gutiérrez, etc. - are truly venal. Governor Brown has effectively destroyed California, now benighted by rampant homelessness and the crime that accompanies a population of illiterate, drug-addicted, gang-affiliated, criminally inclined persons adrift on our streets. And now another young officer has been killed by an illegal alien thanks to the left's obsession with protecting the throngs of migrants crossing the border into the U.S.
> 
> It should be obvious to every American by now that our progressive left does not have the best interest of Americans at heart. Quite the opposite. They loathe those of us who put Trump in the White House and are determined to punish us. They intend to raise our taxes to pay for the $100B illegal aliens cost us every year. They need open borders to import future voters; millions of illegals voted in the 2018 election thanks to motor voter bills and states' refusal to require voter ID. The Democrats know they cannot win without cheating. They cheated in 2016 and are still stunned that their carefully calculated strategy did not work - thus, the cover-up, AKA the Mueller investigation, of their many crimes committed over the Obama years, many at the direction of Hillary Clinton with Obama's knowledge and approval. Our once most revered institutions, the DOJ, the FBI, and the CIA, have been thoroughly corrupted. Mueller, a willing participant in that corruption, is up to his eyeballs in the cover-up.
> 
> Will any of these people at the DOJ, the FBI, and the CIA, ever be held accountable? To date, they have not been. The power they have within the Deep State is beyond formidable; it is seemingly absolute.
> 
> It appears that America has become a sort of medieval oligarchy. Trump, as the outsider he is, is a grave threat to all of those who believed they were in control in perpetuity. They are ready and willing to do anything, no matter how illegal or immoral, to depose him, to expel him from office.
> 
> The Democrats in office today, and those about to take the majority in the House, are anti-Americans. Of that you can be sure. They care about keeping our borders open to all comers more than they care about keeping Americans safe. They all supported a border wall when Clinton and Obama were in office. Now they hate the president more than they love the country. Of this there can be no doubt.
> 
> The Democrats hate Trump so much that they want the economy to crash. They are hoping for recession. Is the Fed on board with the left? It seems so since, that institution's raising the interest rate yet again is counterproductive to our thriving economy. It is the Fed that whipsaws Wall Street, is it not?
> 
> It appears that the entirety of the left - the media, the Deep State, Wall Street, and the Democratic Party - is working in concert to bring Trump down, no matter the consequences to the country. Meanwhile, the Republicans in the Congress, most but certainly not all, are as bendy as can be. With notable exceptions - Jim Jordan, Mark Meadows, Tom Cotton, Matt Gaetz, Louie Gohmert - they hate Trump, too. He has ruffled their feathers, their comfortable position as go-alongs-to-get-alongs in D.C. They have no real principles, no gumption, no fuel for a fight. They are cowards all, pajama boys. Paul Ryan is their poster boy.
> 
> The young policeman who died in California Christmas night will and should be a wake-up call for the Democrats. They are 100% responsible for the presence of such criminals, protected by ridiculous sanctuary policies in our cities. The media and the Democrats are in an uproar over the two migrant children who died at the hands of irresponsible parents who used them as a ticket to ride, yet they have nothing to say about the murder of the young policeman in Newman, Calif. He is, to them, a casualty of politics, of their grand design to obliterate conservatives from the public realm forever. They do not care about him, his widow, or his infant son. They were happy to contribute to the odious Christine Blasey Ford's GoFundMe page, but not one of them will contribute to a GoFundMe page for Ronil Singh's family. He is law enforcement, so they feel nothing.
> 
> The Democratic Party of today is an abomination. The assault on our constitutional republic began with Woodrow Wilson, and their long-range plan to overhaul what the Founders built is still operational. The left has nothing but contempt for ordinary Americans, especially those who voted for Trump.
> 
> Leftists are dangerous when challenged, like a pack of jackals dismembering its prey. They need to be defeated, indicted, arrested, tried, convicted, and imprisoned. They are a scourge on the nation as founded. They do not love this country; they seek to destroy all that was and is good within it.
> 
> Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/20 ... z5b5Wh2C44


The republicans may like their money, but they also love this country, can't say the same about MOST democrats, particularly the ones in Washington.


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## KEN W

So, how many people in this country don't agree with you either......millions. And we love this country as much as that yahoo who wrote that. And it is just as easy to say that the scourge on this nation is on the far right. Like the skin heads and Nazis over there. Intolerance is alive and well on the right. uke: uke:


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## Plainsman

Hunt1 I completely agree with that article. Obama said he would fundamentally change America. Only a simpleton would not understand that means he don't like it as is.


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## huntin1

The most intolerant people I have ever met are democrats. The republicans I know will allow you to express your opinion, they may believe it is BS, but they will respect your right to express it. The democrats I've met will shout over the top of you in an attempt to suppress a differing opinion, that and call you names for not agreeing with them.


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## Plainsman

Hunt1 when I watch a news show with two or three of each democrat/republican it's clear who has no manners. Without exception it will be a liberal expressed his views the keeps on talking loudly not allowing the conservative to talk. Here is another way to judge liberal behavior and you have perhaps noticed it. Criminals in prison are vastly liberal. Remember the presidential election between Bush and Gore? Remember the problem in Florida? Remember the liberals asking that the absentee ballots of our servicemen overseas not be counted? I remember and it was because those patriots who protect our freedom are vastly conservative. Felons are not supposed to vote, but if I remember the democrats pushed for and let Florida felons vote. Felons were what 98% liberal? Republicans are not angels, but it wouldn't take much to make me believe that democrats are satanic disciples. Killing the unborn is twisted. There is a good Bible study that should interest everyone. It's called the Truth Project. It is not political.

Edit: I see on the Drudge Report they say they could cut $25 billion from the welfare to illegal aleins. Illegal aleins cost us enough that we can cut $25 billion and some complain about $5 billion to stop the problem.


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## Chuck Smith

I agree with some of what Ken is saying.

We need more "judges" at the border to hear cases of legal immigration or immigration status stuff. We do need more border patrols as well. We need to stream line this process at the ports of entry.

But a wall would help funnel people to those ports of entry. A wall isn't the "end all" of illegal immigration. But it will help and will save lives of many. It will save the lives of people who are trying to cross illegally and dying out in the deserts of dehydration. It will save the lives of border agents getting shot at. It will save the lives of the people in this country who are getting hurt by "fugitives" who come to this country. It will save the lives of the people involved in the issue of "human trafficking" who are brought in illegally. It will hopefully stop the "raping" of the girls who are on these journeys of illegal immigration. It will hopefully save the lives of the people who "pay for coyotes" to get them across and then are either human trafficked, made to work in cartel activities, etc.

So you see the "wall" isn't totally meant to keep people out. It is to push people to come to this country legally. Another thing that is needed is a revamping of our immigration laws and procedures. They need to either streamline it more to make it efficient. :bop:

So to be honest they need about $25 billion spent on this for judges, border patrol, workers, case workers, detention centers (holding while being processed), and the wall. :bop:


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## Plainsman

I agree with your thought Chuck.


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## KEN W

I agree Chuck......but no wall

Hey Trump......where is all that money from Mexico that you continued to spout off about during EVERY campaign stop????

And before I hear all that about getting money in trade......Trump never said that 1 time in 2016. It was MEXICO WILL PAY FOR IT period. He never said 1 word about ME and YOU paying for it.

A new day starts tomorrow.....Democrats take a 40 seat majority in the House. :beer: :beer:


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## huntin1

So what. Do you think any of them deliver on all of their campaign promises. How about Obama.

•Obama broke his promise to allow Americans to keep their plans and lower costs under Obamacare.
•Obama broke his promise not to raise taxes on the middle-class.
•Obama broke his promise to pursue a "tough, smart and principled national security strategy."
•Obama broke his promise to bring both parties together to enact a bipartisan agenda.
•Obama abandoned his commitment to "unprecedented" transparency.
•Obama failed to "nail shut" the revolving door of lobbyists working in his administration.
•Obama failed to make immigration a top priority and pass comprehensive reform in his first year.

I don't recall you bringing any of this up during Obama's 8 years of trying to destroy America. I'll say it again, your hatred of Trump and anything connected to him has clouded your judgment.


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## KEN W

Obama DID NOT SCREAM every time...."WHO'S GOING TO BUILD THE WALL?"......"MEXICO" uke: uke: uke: uke:

This wall is nothing more than a monument to his ego.....Won't be built. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: Only Trump's base wants the wall.....the rest of us,the majority don't want it.

NAFTA has not been approved. There is nothing is the document that says.....This money goes to building a wall.

And the government shutdown is totally on Trump. He was stupid enough to say it again and again on national television.


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## Plainsman

Ken, it's impossible to all be one sides fault. It takes two sides to have a standoff like this. One side can end it as quickly as the other.
://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/opinion/immigration/350217-americans-support-a-border-wall-more-than-the-media-wants-to-believe%3famp

Also if you think your the majority you have believed the media lies. Often they poll up to 75 percent democrats because they want to mislead the public. You need to have a wider field of view, and get more informed. That's what democrats often say to me, even while openly admitting they refuse to watch conservative news sources. I watch some very liberal.


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## speckline

No, he yelled you can keep your doctor and he insisted over and over and over again that EVERY family would save 2500 per year in health care, even though the repubs constantly stated that was not possible! :eyeroll: uke: uke: uke: :eyeroll:

Oboma was a flat out lying piece of shiite that was supported by the biased press and the USA paid for it!

What difference does it make !!




Another lying piece of shiite who spread lies about why bengazi was attacked. :spam:


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## Plainsman

Spec no one divided this nation more than Obama or increased racism more than Obama. I think he would have like to stir the nation to martial law and push hi agenda as a little dictator.

There are different types of democrats today. We have the older democrats who are still voting for a party they remember. A party that has not existed for years. Good people, but they bury their head in the sand and refuse to read or listen to anything that doesn't agree with the old party that only exists in their mind. 
The current party is a conglomeration of the immoral. Like lions that kill cubs from other males to bring the female into heat current male liberals will kill their own young so the female they shack up with will be more fun again. Through what they called womens liberation they have demonized traditional female roles and traditional male roles. Women say they don't want to be sexual objects, yet they dress like hookers and reduce their desirability as a person. I find today's women about as desirable as cancer. 
Other liberals pop out kids like popcorn because the gov pays them and it has become a career for them. The combination of abortion on one hand and welfare kids on the other is downgrading our society fast. 
It's the immorality of liberals that makes the Muslims hate us, then conservatives join the military to protect the liberals that hate them worse than Muslims. It's such an ironic world. 
The Gallop Poll this morning says 89% of republicans approve of Trump and what he is doing. Pelosi is on this morning and her vision is go after Trump. She says constitution is wrong and they can indict a sitting president. Childish/insane.


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## dakotashooter2

I agree Plainsman. The new democrats are not the ones I have known in the past. Democrats from my parents generation and even my own still believe in working for what you have and limited intrusion by the government. Newer generations seem to define freedom as getting something for nothing and not taking personal responsibility for your own actions. My beef isn't as much with democrats as with democratic politicians who keep conning them. Though "fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me." I'm no idiot...Trump is no God...... Nor puritan... You don't get to his financial position by being a nice guy..... But I do think this country needs a good shake up.... someone who right or wrong is not afraid to call a spade a spade and not cower in the corner when someone throws it back at him..... someone to let congress know they are not all powerful. "Let he (in congress) who is without sin cast the first stone". I have no doubt that most of Trumps accusers are just as or more guilty than he is of whaterver they think he has done. And some have been doing it for far longer. The Dems want to see the republican party weakened to ineffectiveness but it's begining to look like the Democratic party may be in more trouble that the Republicans. Division of the party is down the road for them.... its just a matter of time.


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## Plainsman

The democrats, and some backstabbers like Romney, complain about Trumps tweets and language. Odd they don't care as much about Rashida Tlaib
If you didn't hear her comments some of her first words about Trump was we will impeach the m****ther F******we. She said she told her son that. What kind of mother talks to her son that way? What a low life.
www.mediaite.com/online/new-congresswom ... therfcker/
Please liberals don't ever whine to me again about conservatives calling names, because we can't come close to you.


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