# Force Fetching



## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

A question....

I am now training my second lab. My first lab I trained is obedient and what I would consider an average hunter. My new pup is by far a better natural retreiver and has much better initial natural instincts.

That being said, I ahve heard several opinions on force fetching on this forum.

Some say that it is a must... your comments on this please.

Some say it shoudlmbe done very young because it prevents several problems that can occur in developement.

I would enjoy a civilized debate about this topic as I really would like to understand it better.


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## THE Snowman (Mar 5, 2003)

Kid -

I would be an advocate of force training any dog. However, I have seen many trainers who use far more force than is necessary. I have always owned shorthairs and I actually have a new pup coming on Saturday. The dog I currently have is about a year and a half old and really displayed a lot of "natural" ability in retrieving on both land and water. As a matter of fact, prior to force breaking her I never had a problem with her failing to retrieve anything on command. I force broke her anyway, and for the first time I used the e-collar rather than the ear pinch. It went very quickly and smoothly and I never had to go above the lowest level of stimulation.

This fall I hunted with a friend of mine who owns a Small Munsterlander. This dog has never been force broken (or maybe I should say truly force broken) and has always been good in the field. In November we had a situation where we were in a small slough bottom that was filled with birds. The SM retrieved a rooster that was winged and was on the way back with it when other birds were flushing like crazy. When the dog was about 10 feet from my buddy she dropped the bird she had and went after another and the one she had in her mouth hit the ground running and we never found it. A force broken dog would never have dropped that bird until given the command to do so. Any dog with any retrieving ability can get the easy birds, but a force broken dog can be depended on to focus on making the retrieve regardless of any and all outside distractions. That is why I believe in force braking. I hope this helps.

I would also say that I would wait to force break until a dog is at least nine months old and take it slow. For me it was about a 2 month process from start to finish, and my current dog seems to be pretty tough and probably could stand a lot more pressure than I care to apply. Whenever we ran into a tough spot, I backed up a step to something she was doing well and ended the session on a positive note. Others may have different opinions, and if they get the results they want that is fine. I have seen some dogs ruined in this process and I have seen some that come out like robots that will retrieve but show no natural passion to do so. You know your dog best, so do whatever you think is best for both of you to get the results you want.


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## irish (Jan 18, 2004)

The above post is a great one right to the point and the way i would have said it . The story told is why you need to force fetch . I have two Chesapeake Bay Retriever`s both were force broke and when i hunt with other dogs that were not it sure shows . Just my two cents .

Irish :lol:


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

> I force broke her anyway, and for the first time I used the e-collar rather than the ear pinch. It went very quickly and smoothly and I never had to go above the lowest level of stimulation


We always force break and then collar condition, so this would not work with the program that I follow, I will go back to force fetch with the collar after CC is done but use the trusty ear pinch. I like to FF after they have all there adult teeth around 7 monthes, some will say let them hunt a season but I would rather break a young dog, mostly because, the older they get the stronger they get.

I will never have a dog that has not been force broke, you can tell the one that haven't been. THey drop birds, throw birds and you and at times flip you off by refusing the task.


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## cedarsedge (Sep 21, 2006)

Don't forget force breaking is the foundation for blind work also.

Dan


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

It depends on what you want out of the dog and the natural ability of the dog.

I will FF every dog I own from now on. But, I hunt with guys that have never and will never. Their dogs do a decent job for them and they are happy with it.

What will you want this pup to do when it is mature?


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

The other thing about FF is that it is pretty much an all or nothing deal. By that I mean if you decide to FF your dog, you will need to complete the entire program. If a dog displays good retrieving instincts and you start the FF program and half way through you decide to quit and go with what the dog does naturally and try to develop that, you may end up with a dog that will not retrieve at all. So, it's very important to think it through very carefully before deciding on which route you are going to go. Note that I said the dog "May not retrieve at all" if you quit the FF program. There are no absolutes when it comes to training.

One of the best programs for FF a dog that I've seen was a series of articles that James Spencer had in Gundog Magazine a few years back. I'm guessing the same information is in the books he has written. His program takes a very humane approach to FF......it's pretty much the opposite of hardcore, brutal methods that some trainers have used that gave FF a bad name. FF is not brutal when done properly.


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2007)

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... ight=fetch


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## gundogguru (Oct 7, 2003)

I have put 3 Master Hunter titles on my Wirehairs and have never FF any of them. Just never needed to.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

FF is a very involved process and every dog should be force broken. When you FF a dog it benefits more than the retrieving portion of his training. It creates a "handler awareness" and will benefit your entire training program that you put the dog through. This is a very involved program and I most strongly suggest you get Jim Dobbs training tapes. You don't need a field trial dog (I don't think), just a darn good hunting dog. Figure out a training system before you start, don't deviate from it, and follow it through to the end.


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