# a farmer's opinion



## ndfarmer08 (Jan 10, 2009)

Hey guys,
first post on this board, in regard to section lines in the western part of the state, ND, I think just use common sense. I cannot think of a field on our farm where we farm across a section line, other than one line that we seed, to keep the kochia controlled. we ourselves then drive the section line all summer to check the crops. I also spray that section line to keep the weeds down. I would actually prefer to have a maintained trail there, but the county and townships don't want to spend the money to maintain all section lines.

we as landowners do pay taxes to the center of the road. i feel that we have the right to farm the land if the governing boards fail to maintain that section line. I do not encroach a road if the ditch is maintained by the governing boards.

I also do not have a problem with anyone traveling a section line if they would have a legitimate reason, while crops are growing there, ie: to round up cattle that are out, to gain access to their property, etc.

there usually are not hunting seasons open during our growing season, so i wouldn't consider that a legitimate reason. usually varmints such as gophers and coyotes are not hunted in a barley field or wheat field.

courtesy will gain you access to more hunting ground than wrecking someones crops ever will. also remember: IT IS THOSE GROWING CROPS THAT FEED THE GAME YOU ARE COMING OUT TO HUNT.

I will say after this hunting season, I am definitely going to post more land than i ever have. the hunters that are coming out west are not pleasing most of us landowners. gutpiles in approaches, garbage thrown out the windows, shooting posted signs, ignoring distances from occupied dwellings, etc. it only takes a few bad ones to ruin it for everybody.

One thing you non-farmers need to realize is that we farmers are the people that feed the game that you come here to shoot. I believe that in itself is worth some respect. I don't come to your yard in town and leave garbage in it, spin cookies on your lawn, or leave gutpiles or carcasses in front of the gate in your fence. If you are so concerned about access to hunting, why aren't you out feeding the starving pheasants right now? you have access to all these section lines, why don't you have wildlife feeders on them?

I also am finding more and more dead hawks and owls than ever before, which i suspect are mostly from the local pheasants forever chapter members.

just my thoughts, fire away..........


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Welcome to the website.

I do agree with you that more and more people are disrespecting fields, posted signs, and the gravel and dirt roads. I don't ever see that changing any time soon, but hopefully it will slow down.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Great post ndfarmer08. Thanks for taking the time to put that to words, now we just have to hope your words don't run into closed minds.

I'm like you I want to pass on all the same rights and freedoms we enjoyed to the next generations to enjoy equally.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Glad you are here. First off it is your right to post your land and you gave reasons why. I am not and will not defend that kind of behavior. However flip things around a bit from the ethical hunters point of view. He has done nothing to encroach or offend any landowner. He is one of those that pick up others garbage be it from an unethical hunter or some farm kid who does not want to take his beer bottles home.

You have public hunting land that is accessible via a couple miles of section line. The ethical hunter along with others like him now come fall and find corn planted on the section line or beans. What should they do? They can drive it legally, but my bet is that the person planting the crop will bad mouth hunters for doing so and never mention that they plowed and planted the section line which is public access.

We own land, I grew up on a farm, hunt deer in the unit I grew up in. There are a number of section lines plowed and planted that never get driven, nor will they. They lead no where or dead end into deep creeks. But more and more we are seeing section lines getting plowed up that should not be and when they get driven on they are bad mouthing hunters.

Respect is a two way street. Most land owners and hunters have that. I see frustration increasing though because of actions on both sides by a few. So maybe those shot up signs while not acceptable are a result of actions of a landowner who disrespects the rights of hunters and some hot head took out his frustration wrongly on the sign!

All I would like is for you to stop and think about things and while you do feed the wild life, myself and other tax payers are also footing the bill for the farm programs that have helped many remain on the farm and will in the future when prices bottom out !


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> However flip things around a bit from the ethical hunters point of view. He has done nothing to encroach or offend any landowner. He is one of those that pick up others garbage be it from an unethical hunter or some farm kid who does not want to take his beer bottles home.


They should make personal contact with the landowner anyway. That always settles things right from the beginning.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Now if everyone could consider ndfarmer08 and Ron's words without being offended things could be much better.

It takes one bad hunter to tick off ten farmers, and one bad farmer to tick off ten hunters. The fact is we rely on each other. The working stiff in town busts his chops and his taxes and often his vote goes to help landowners. When we go to the field it's most often private land we hunt. It's best we don't whiz in each other's Wheaties.


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

That's why every spring I spend a couple weekends picking up everyone elses garbage out of the fields I hunt. I've got a 4 wheel drive and a trailer but still carry my 12 dozen dekes in and out of the field. All the while stepping over ruts made by the guys who don't give a $hit. We're the guys that are serious enough about hunting and unfortuntaly pay the price for those of us who aren't.


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

the old arguement of we pay taxes to the center line is old news. the bottom line is the tax structure needs x amount of money. it doesn't matter where you measure too. the system needs the money and they are going to get it wether they charge you the tax on 1 acre or 160 acres. no one ever talks about the laws that apply to people that live in town. like we don't own to the center of the road, but we can get sued for someone getting hurt on the government owned sidewalk in front of our homes and businesses. yes in some states this is the case. yes it does happen. you are still welcome to use them though. like was stated earlier we all need to get along and try to correct the poor actions of others. thanks for your input and welcome.


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## goose blaster (Jan 24, 2006)

I am a land owner in western ND. I have two section of land with a creek that runs through it enrolled in the PLOTS program. I also have some land closer to town that is posted that I allow hunting on. I have found that most folks who make a big fuss about access to and hunting on section lines, lack the social skills to gain access to private land.


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## ndfarmer08 (Jan 10, 2009)

First- I am of the class of farmers that would like to see all "government farm payments" go by the wayside. Granted, they helped me get started farming, by adding to my income, but realistically it is just another welfare program, and although it helps my bottom line, realistically what it is doing is insuring that our non-farming public has access to cheap food.
if anything, I would like to see an insurance program that actually protected my investment in my growing crops. I raise chickpeas/garbonzo beans on my farm. They were (until passage of the newest farm bill) classified as a vegetable crop. In order for me to grow them legally, I had to withdraw multiple farms from the program. Financially, it made sense to do it.

Second- I am against CRP. I also am against farming land that should not be farmed. who decides whether or not it should be farmed is the problem, we sure don't want the government deciding. if you can see an economic return or not would be up to the landowner/operator. think how much public land our game and fish department could have developed if the money had been given to them to purchase land for public use rather than use it to rent/idle land?!? but then again, its the government competing against private individuals, so that wouldn't work either, but
I'm sure it would be easier to hunt than walking CRP.

Third- I am in favor of the PLOTS program, although I have not signed up any land yet. I do farm some rented land that is enrolled, and have not had any negative experiences with it.

Fourth- I have been reading lately about the liability risks of allowing hunters on my land. There have been lawsuits regarding hunters who have stepped in badger holes, broken legs, etc, suing the landowners. 
I have not read the ND statutes regarding this yet, does anyone have any knowledge they wish to share?

Last, this is getting long, with the snow that we have now, across the whole state, I see grouse, pheasant, and partridge that are struggling to find food. As hunters, who appreciate having game to hunt, we should all be doing our part to insure that these populations stay intact.


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## Aythya (Oct 23, 2004)

And the best way to ensure that these populations stay intact is by providing habitat.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

May I ask why you are against CRP? Just because you think they could spend the states money in a better way?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

NDfarmer08, you sound like my relatives.  That's a good thing. I mostly agree with them too. When I was young we had our farm in the Soil Bank program. 
When I sent to college I worked for the department of entomology and we run around the state helping landowners decide what to do about some problem insects. Many farmers were taking their land out of Soil Bank and putting it directly into wheat. June beetle larvae were eating 300 foot circles in many fields. They ate all the roots off and it was just big circles of dirt and no vegetation. Some quarters were 50 percent gone. 
My youth on the farm, and my work with farmers afterwards kind of made me think that the public paying for conservation programs made a lot more sense for the future of farming than paying support prices for grain. It lowered production resulting in the market raising prices without tax support, and it preserved land for the future. Some of our soil bank was very good land after it was in for a while.
I don't think you are liable for hunters on your land if you don't charge them to hunt. I think if you charge they look at it as a business and make you responsible. If you don't charge I think they passed some specific regulations that protect you.
I have enjoyed your posts and your independent attitude. I hope we can keep this thread going without any offensive comments so we can all get a better idea how each of us think. 
Thanks.


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## ndfarmer08 (Jan 10, 2009)

my opinion?
1. CRP decimated western counties in North Dakota, by taking land out of production, it took opportunities away for a new generation of farmers. that meant there were no young families whose children could attend the schools, no young farmers meant that there weren't enough people to support businesses in the small towns. I am 38, and am one of the youngest farmers I know.

2. CRP provides shelter, and some food for wildlife, but after hunting season- go drive around where you normally hunt. The birds are not in the CRP- they are out of it looking for food. Guess where they are? I have 1-200 pheasants in the yard by the grain bins. I suppose grain bins can be considered habitat, Aythya? Go by any livestock feedlot out here right now- the pheasants are where the haybales are being unrolled for the cattle. Can you post pics on this site?

3. CRP has totally ruined the hay business in the midwest. Every year that there is an opportunity to sell hay, they open CRP- Bang- no demand for hay. This too has been abused- there have been times where ranchers have honestly needed hay, especially in the SW part of the state-due to drought. many people i know have quit raising tame hay on tilled land, and raise other crops on it. know why? because "they'll open CRP, they do it every year."

4. CRP has been mismanaged. IF the goal is to provide wildlife habitat, then there should be food plots. How much bromegrass seed do pheasant actually eat? I don't see them flocking to road ditches for food, do you? they usually run there from the field to hide, not to eat.
Also, there is ALOT of CRP that is totally full of noxious weeds. The FSA and NRCS has failed to enforce control on MANY acres of CRP.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

The CRP is more for shelter then a food for wildlife.

I will agree that it has been mismanaged at times, but with what doesn't get abused?

I don't agree that CRP took "new farmers" out of the business. I think that cash rent and the raising grain prices and people becoming greedy, pushed more people out of farming then anything. Two of my friends who aren't much older the I am (20) are trying to get into the farming game in central ND right now and all of their 800 they rent was in CRP. There was a lot of land around them when they started but with they cannot compete with the other big farmers. Because the big farmers think they have the money to push up rent prices.

People will always misuse farm programs. If a person drives enough and knows what to look for its easy to see what and how people screw the programs. For instance, I grew up in Wimbledon, ND. Home of the infamous Dwayne Huber. He was an insurance sales man telling farmers how to screw the insurance agency. Though he got caught and went to jail for it. But you can still driving around there and still see people doing what he did.

There is a that farmers around Jamestown who pushes up the rent prices so high so that only he can pay for the rent. There are more people out there that do that too, but I cannot think of there names.

So I believe there are more reasons why new farmers cannot get into the game right away.


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## ndfarmer08 (Jan 10, 2009)

I also am probably a farmer that you would view as someone who drives cash rent up. I can, because I am an aggressive farmer, who makes money raising the crops I raise. I can afford to pay what I pay, while making a profit. I also farm a fairly large acreage, so paying more for one parcel doesn't raise my whole farm cash rent average much at all. that being said, I didn't bid on 800 acres this past week, so that a younger farmer I am mentoring could increase his farm acreage.

I started with nothing, it can be done. It is not a way of life anymore. It is a business, and needs to be treated as such. It is all about how much risk you can handle. I don't feel sorry for someone who says they can't afford the cash rent, cash rent is one of the smaller expenses of farming nowadays, you probably couldn't afford adequate fertilizer or chemicals either. You cannot fault a large successful farmer for being successful. We also are employing people who are providing for their families.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I will only edit one person's name.

I think that finding land is the biggest thing when it comes to trying out farming. I understand that farming is a risky business as I plan to farm too when I get out of college. I also agree that farmers compete against each other. But when people start driving up the rent to push other farmers out of the way, thats why more and more farmers are quit. They cannot compete.

I know that starting from nothing can be done. But its getting harder and harder now days.

I will have to double check to make sure how much some of the day is being rented for before the ethonal hype and afterwards. But the land simply isn't worth what it is beign rented as.


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## ndfarmer08 (Jan 10, 2009)

I'm glad to hear you are pursuing a future in farming. It is a very rewarding life. I wish I weren't at the computer so much, like i said before, its a business. I was in your exact shoes in 1993. Land is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Actually the hunters have driven up the price of agricultural land quite a bit out west, anything that looks pretty and has wild game is worth much more than you can earn on it farming.

Land will come around, don't be discouraged yet. I never thought I'd get started. I started out teaching, got the opportunity to move home to teach, and was able to rent land a short time later. started by myself, a few years later dad and I joined up, now he's phasing out. I have one full-time employee, and a couple seasonal. supporting 3 families off the farm now, as the manager I have a lot of responsiblity, If I don't succeed there are a lot of people that will suffer, not just my family.

Don't criticize a BTO (big time operator) until you have walked in his shoes, most large farmers have a lot of people to support, employees, etc. In many cases, people come to us and ask us to farm their land. If you do a good job, the land comes to you. I need to farm a lot of land just to pay my hired man's salary, much less mine.

Once you get to the point where I am, you need more land to spread your costs. Machinery needs to cover a lot of acres to pay for itself, you need to use the machines to their max to justify owning them.

I wish you success in school, and in farming. study hard, take business classes, especially marketing, and budgeting. Don't expect anyone to give you anything, if someone can help, they will. Let older farming neighbors know that you want to farm after college, make it a point to go help them if you see they could use it. stop in for coffee and to visit. 
It will become what you make it.

What is cash rent in the jamestown area?


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I will have to make sure I get the right numbers for the cash rent. The I don't have a anything against big farmers, except the select few who screw the government programs out of money, small farmers do that to and I hate that too.

I will have a couple years before I will actually "start farming" but I still have to decide if thats what I really want.

As farm as hunters disrespecting landowners, it happens everywhere. I wish we could thin the herd of those bad hunters.


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## Aythya (Oct 23, 2004)

> I suppose grain bins can be considered habitat, Aythya?


Of course grain bins aren't habitat. And animals will always seek out the easiest food source, whether it is grain near a bin, seeds where bales are, etc. And I probably won't debate too much that many CRP fields could use some rejuvenation and probably don't provide totally adequate food sources for all life cycle stages.

But, CRP does provide incredibly important benefits for wildlife and in the case of birds it is nesting cover and food. The explosion of pheasants and waterfowl, and to a great degree deer in this state is because CRP provides a portion of habitat that was missing - grass cover.

I also don't agree that CRP has decimated western counties in North Dakota. That is much too simplistic when the problem(s) for agriculture was/is much more complicated. With prices of grain in the tank, it provided income that probably helped keep many people on the farm.


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