# A thought for the cut and run crowd



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

No fingers pointing here. You will have to decide for yourself where you fit. I thought this was just a good reminder that freedom isn't free. It also addresses some thoughts about what we stand for.












> I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA , AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL!
> 
> It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore I have a very hard time understanding why there is such a problem in having 'In God! We Trust' on our money and having 'God' in the Pledge of Allegiance.
> I believe it's time we stand up for what we believe!


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Thanks, Plainsman I being forced :lol: into the wilderness for about 7 days. I encourage all to truly think about the freedoms we enjoy in this great county of ours. Why we have them and how we got them. It wasn't by being weak, meek or sticking our head in the sand.
MAY GOD CONTINUE TO BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
And all here have a safe 4th of July.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I'm guessing that is a Viet Nam Vet there.... what do we all think about how they have been treated since the end of that war. It's a shame what has been done or rather not done until recent years.

The watery eyed vets deny being offended but carry many memories that cause tears. I think this country is so used to people asking for handouts they expect these proud warriors to beg for help with health issues stemming from that War.

You will not see a begger in that crowd, maybe alot of drinkers and drug users to cope with the pains and memories of friends lost in battle but not any beggers.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> what do we all think about how they have been treated since the end of that war.


I think they have been treated shamefully, just like they were during the war. I don't think those disrespectful to the soldier type people have gone away, they just grew smart enough to hide their bias.

I received the above in an email, and I thought it was appropriate for July 4. After all the birth of this nation was made possible by the type of people that were in VietNam, and the type of people that are in Iraq today.


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Shouldn't the Iraqi people be fighting for their own freedom just as our fore fathers did in this country?

I'm all for going after Osama in Afganistan or wherever the he!! he is, but this operation Iraqi freedom is a catastrophy IMHO. You can not try to free people who do not want to be free! At some point they need to stand up for themselves!

:2cents:


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

HUNTNFISHND I think the Iraqi people are fighting for their own freedom. But just like we probable would not have won our freedom without the help of the French, I suspect the Iraqi's can't win theirs without our help. I'd bet money that a lot of people at Valley Forge were complaining to George Washington that this campaign is a catastrophe. The French had a alternative motive for helping us and we have a alternative motive for helping Iraq. But in the end if freedom wins does it really matter?


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Here's the difference. AMERICANS initiated the American Revolution and took on most of the load of fighting the British. AFTER the war was commenced, the French offered their financial and miliary assistance, most notably their naval forces to keep the British navy at bay.

In contrast, the Iraqi people did not initiate any revolution. We did. We invaded their country and we kicked the regime out of power. The Iraqi people joined in to help after the war had started.

This begs the question: Whose revolution is it, ours or the Iraqi citizens'?


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

No, here is the difference. At the time of our revolution we had guns and the freedom to move about and organize without being murdered in the middle of the night. Pretty hard to organize a revolution when all you have are rocks to fend off gunships and tanks equipped with chemical weapons.

People in that country attempted to start a revolution once after we promised support which we failed to deliver. As a result their women and children were gassed by the regime we promised to help them overthrow. Who could blame them for a wait and see on the second attempt.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Pretty hard to organize a revolution when all you have are rocks to fend off gunships and tanks equipped with chemical weapons


.

Last I heard there was at least one AK for every person in Iraq, and enough land mines and rockets to fight a war. Not buttin in I hope :lol:


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

"One of the Taliban spokesmen said they have thousands of men who look forward to death like Americans look forward to living, which is great because we can arrange that. We'll set them up with death, we'll continue living."-Jay Leno


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> Last I heard there was at least one AK for every person in Iraq, and enough land mines and rockets to fight a war


And they got those the day American troops hit the ground a running when Saddam opened all the armories and prisons because he knew his butt was in a sling and looking for a hole to hide in. Missed hearing that part?


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

HUNTNFISHND said:


> Shouldn't the Iraqi people be fighting for their own freedom just as our fore fathers did in this country?
> 
> I'm all for going after Osama in Afganistan or wherever the he!! he is, but this operation Iraqi freedom is a catastrophy IMHO. You can not try to free people who do not want to be free! At some point they need to stand up for themselves!
> 
> :2cents:


*
If a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody there to hear it does it still make a noise? *

With the non-existent coverage from the media how do we know they aren't?

Most of the media won't even get there sorry a's outside the green zone!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> And they got those the day American troops hit the ground a running when Saddam opened all the armories and prisons because he knew his butt was in a sling and looking for a hole to hide in. Missed hearing that part?


Probably not.

...but supposedly they had been involved in faction wars before we got there, one side backed by USA the other backed by Russia. Remember when Iran and Iraq were having a tiff, maybe you weren't born yet.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

Hate to burst your bubble again or pull your head out of the sand into reality but it was on every front page of every newspaper about Saddam opening the prisons and giving out weapons to the public before he took flight. Not to mention all the left wing papers condemning the US army for not protecting the armories after they were broken into and weapons stolen by the public. The Iraqi public had no weapons prior to the war and last I checked it was the Iraqi army that fought Iran, not the public. You need a better news source.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> left wing papers condemning the US army for not protecting the armories


That tripped the trigger of my memory. I do remember that very thing your speaking of. The libs really layed it on that the military was to stupid to protect the armories. I will agree it certainly was a blunder. They sort of pulled a Jimmy Carter too when they sent captured prisoners "home".


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> The Iraqi public had no weapons prior to the war and last I checked it was the Iraqi army that fought Iran, not the public. You need a better news source


Have you ever heard of shiites and sunnis. The land mines and mortars were buried in the sand way before we went there.

Yeah you're right on news sources, I use the USA ones and they said every house had at least on AK and this was before George SR went there in 90-91, Desert Storm.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

buckseye said:


> Yeah you're right on news sources, I use the USA ones and they said every house had at least on AK and this was before George SR went there in 90-91, Desert Storm.


Do you believe everything you read?

Im guessing the colonials probably would have been a little afraid to revolt against the british if they had no guns and were getting doused with mustard gas and sarin all the time. They just needed a little push. And who can blame em for being a little gun shy after our cut and run the last time around.

Just goes to show, an unarmed populace are lambs to the slaughter.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Do you believe everything you read?


Heck no we were comparing our interpretations of what we heard/read, I find it amusing how we all hear the same lies and can find opposite polarities within it.

Then there is the rumor those people have been fighting each other for hundreds of years... to funny. Many people on here say that and don't think we will ever get them to stop.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> I use the USA ones and they said every house had at least on AK and this was before George SR went there in 90-91, Desert Storm.


Then it should be no problem for you to post that source for all to read right? You might find something to the effect that when the we invaded the second time and the Iraqi army cut and run and the armories were raided that weapons were hidden and buried but prior to Desert Storm, I don't think so. As a matter of fact I don't think you read that at all.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

You are somewhat correct, although I did read the notes and letters home from my friends and relatives who served over there. Which of course I still have a nephew over there and a 3rd tour door gunner by choice fighting with anybody who will fight back.

Actually I seldom watch TV and almost never read trash the media moguls profit from. I just know what the people who have been there tell me. For some reason some find it more exciting to hear half truths and out right lies.


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