# The Best Shotgun



## bloodnguts

I'm 35 years old, and have only one shotgun (Remington 11-87 12 gauge) that I bought brand new when I was 17 years old. I'm finally thinking I want a new gun so I decided to come to the experts to help me decide. I've found a crack in one of the piston rings on my 11-87, and after 18 years of shooting, the action isn't slamming shut as sharply, and every once in a while, things kind of jam up, so it probably needs an overhaul. I can still use it, but I'm getting the new gun itch. My hunting season involves an annual one week duck hunt in North Dakota, which will this year become a combination trip of ducks, pheasants and sharptails. I live on the Lake Michigan coast of Wisconsin, and am a new member of a 600 acre game preserve for pheasant hunting, where I am allowed unlimited hunting for surviving birds. This place is only twenty minutes from my house, so I will probably hunt this place quite regularly. I will also chase ruffed grouse through the northwoods a half dozen weekends out of the season. Occasionally, I might try to secure a quick, decoyless hunt in a hot goose field, and an occasional float trip on a small local river to jump woodducks. So I'm looking for a versatile gun, but one that has class, and will stand the test of time, as I plan on making a lot of memories with it. I will spend some money, since I have rarely bought a new gun, but I want to be reasonable, because my family and I are living on a modest, public servant salary. That means I don't need upland bird scenes engraved on it, because it's not going on top of my fire place. A field gun is what I'm looking for. Since I have the heavy automatic, around 8 pounds or so, I'd like to go lighter, since most of my hunting will involve a lot of walking. The barrel length should be 26 inches or less, since I'll spend some time in the grouse covers, and want to be able to snap shoot through thick brush. I'm intrigued by the side by sides and over/unders, but I'm not sure how to handle the sighting plane of the side by side. When I've shouldered them, it always seems I'm looking way over the top of the barrel, which to me seems like it would equate to shooting well below the bird. Maybe you guys could weigh in on that. The over/unders have class, but I'm not sure I'm ready to part with that third shot. Maybe another opinion you can share about that. I really don't want to go to a pump, because unlike lifelong pump shooters, I cannot work one as fast as a repeater, and I want quickness in the grouse covers. I could be lured into the 20 guage crowd, but would probably feel most comfortable in my shooting abilities (mediocre) using a 12 guage. A 3 1/2 inch chamber is not necessary, because for the little goose hunting I do, a 3 inch BB load will suffice. So that's kind of the criteria and I'm interested in hearing a few opinions. I would love to have the money to purchase a nice matching set of 12 and 20 guage over/unders, a classic side by side for the thick grouse covers, a reliable pump for the nastiest marsh, and an expensive automatic for anything and everything, but I can't seem to win the lottery. I guess you've got to play it to win it. Thanks for your input.


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## Gohon

This probable won't answer your question but most of the time when a question like this is asked, the answer you get from someone is the gun they personally own whether they have a broad experience with different guns or not. Personally if it were me I would just buy another 11-87. Something along the lines of the 11-87 upland special. 23 inch barrel with a weight of just over 7 pounds. You already have experience and most importantly familiarity with the 11-87 and they are dependable guns as you know. If it were a side by side or over and under my choice would be the Ruger Red Label. However if weight is a problem the over and under will hit the 8 pound weight range. The side by sides are lighter by over a pound but as you mentioned they are not user friendly as to sighting plane. Not to mention the Red label will cost twice as much as a 11-87. Well there you are....... that's what I would do.


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## Bob Aronsohn

If you are looking for a very reliable semi auto I would look at the Benelli Montefeltro's. They are recoil operated not gas operated, but require far less maintenance than a gas gun. They are light and easy to carry for upland game. You can bang any ammo through em without a hitch!

The Beretta model 391 is the best gas operated shotgun on the market today. If I were to choose (this is just my opinion) I would go with the Beretta as number one, Benelli as number two and the Browning Gold as a very distant third. The Beretta's weigh more than the Benelli's because they are gas operated. You can bang any ammo through the Beretta's as well!

Bob A.


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## driggy

My vote would be for one of the Benelli's ( M1, M2, Montefeltro).I used to live in SD and had/have a M1 and the weight was real nice factor. If your budget allows for it a Citori is a good quality O/U for around $1500. I'd have the Ruger Red Label as my $1000 O/U, but it would not see much use as a clays gun though.


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## R y a n

I'd have to agree with Bob...



> If you are looking for a very reliable semi auto I would look at the Benelli Montefeltro's. They are recoil operated not gas operated, but require far less maintenance than a gas gun. They are light and easy to carry for upland game. You can bang any ammo through em without a hitch!


I've shot many different models throughout my life, I currently own a Rem 870, a Benelli Super Black Eagle (hence the Nodak name "Ben Elli"), and have owned a Rem 11-87, Browning Citori, and Win BPS in the past.

Go with the Montefeltro. You won't be disappointed given your criteria...

Ryan


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## bloodnguts

You guys got me to check out that Montefeltro on Benelli's website, and that does look like it would be right up my alley. Even more interesting, was the Benellie Ultralight, a 12 gauge automatic chambered to shoot all 2 3/4 and 3 inch loads, with a 24 inch barrel, and weighing ONLY 6 pounds. It looks like it might cost a couple hundred more bucks, but I wonder if there are any reviews on this gun.


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## Bob Aronsohn

Hello Bloodnguts,

Here is a review for you, there are only two makes of shotguns that you see all the time on South American dove and waterfowl hunts and they are the Benelli's and Beretta's. The reason is because they are built to take a beating. They have a very good reputation for reliability, especially with forign ammo! You put more ammo through them in one day hunting doves (in South America) than you do in the states in several seasons! It's not uncommon to shoot 1,000 rounds a day or more (one man) on a South American dove shoot. On ducks they limit you now to six boxes (150 rounds) per duck hunt. These are stiffer loads than the dove loads. So, on the average 5 day hunt you can very easily go through 5,500 rounds between ducks and doves. How's that for a review?

Bob A.


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## claybuster

I have a gunsafe full of pumps, autos, SxS and O/Us. They each have their own purpose (well mainly, I just wanted that particular gun at the time.. The 11-87 is a good gun as is the 391 and the Montefeltro (gee why do you think the big gunmakers spend so much on R&D and advertising?? To make a dog and not get sales? As for the comment about the Red Label not seeing much use as a clays gun...well I have and older Red Label w the english field stock and 26 inch tubes and I have powdered numerous clays with it. Remember, " It aint the arrow..."


driggy said:


> My vote would be for one of the Benelli's ( M1, M2, Montefeltro).I used to live in SD and had/have a M1 and the weight was real nice factor. If your budget allows for it a Citori is a good quality O/U for around $1500. I'd have the Ruger Red Label as my $1000 O/U, but it would not see much use as a clays gun though.


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## TexIndian

I started with a Remington 11-48, then on to a Browning A-5 and a really old Remington 11-A (a clone of the A-5). All are recoil operated. No real complaints on any of these. They all shot well if I kept them clean.

Then I moved to Browning O/U guns. IMO, these are the best shotguns money can buy. You can spend more (LOTS more) on everything from a Beretta to one of those Italian guns, but you are just buying a name and some looks. I posted a picture of mine on clu_82's thread about the best O/U. As you can see there, I couldn't justify paying for any of those engraved scenes either.

My trap gun has fired more than 300,000 rounds and hasn't needed a dime in repairs. I'd like to see any pump or semi-auto do that. I don't have a figure for the others but they've all seen hard use for decades except the wife's 20 ga. I did have to pay $15 once for a new ejector rod on one of the guns. The steel didn't break, a weld did. That trap gun has been lugged all over the country, banged up and abused by the airlines and by me, completely drenched in more driving rains than I can remember, and generally given the toughest stress testing I could dish out.

Some of those Benellis cost more than a Browning O/U. I have nothing at all against Benellis, but that's kind of like paying Cadillac prices for a used Kia IMO. I have no doubt these are good quality guns, but let's see what one looks like 300,000 rounds from now. And let's see the list of repairs and plain old worn out parts. That BT-99 is ready for another 300,000 rounds.

The semi-autos and pumps are stamped out, O/Us are machined from a solid billet. S-A guns are pieced together on an assembly line, O/Us are hand-fitted. The steel is stronger and thicker, the finish and detail is better, and I don't think there's any reasonable comparison in life expectancy. The O/U guns have relieved forcing cones and back-bored barrels (Brownings anyway). You can't do that with a stamped out gun because it wouldn't fit that one size of parts they make every gun fit into. The lock time is faster, cycling time between shots is exactly zero...... As Larry the Cable Guy says, I could keep this up all day. 

The S-A guns do have some advantages. You can swap out barrel lengths or configurations without sending the gun into the factory - a result of their one-size-fits-all philosophy. You do get the 3rd shot and there's no escaping that. An O/U makes you be a tad more judicious in your shot selection, but aren't those 3rd shots usually desperation shots at a target you've already missed twice?

I know I'm terribly prejudiced in favor of the Brownings. But that prejudice is the result of 40 years of heavy bird hunting and serious competition. I've shot them all, even those outrageously expensive foreign guns, and I think you know which one I'd pick. Take care of that Citori and keep it lubed properly, because your great-grandchildren will be shooting it some day.

I should add that I have nothing against some of the other O/U guns like the Red Label, the Winchester 101's, etc. Many of my friends shoot them and they love them. The Italian Perazzis (at anywhere from $4000 to $40,000) are the most repair-hungry guns I've ever seen bar none, so not all O/U guns will be as dependable as I've seen in my experience.


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## Bob Aronsohn

Hello Texindian,

A lot depends on what you are going to be using the firearm for in regard to the type of shooting. For example, the Browning o/u is just fine for shooting clay birds or waterfoul and upland birds here in the states. The reason the Beretta's are used on the high volume shoots outside the USA is because they are tough and can take a beating. If you are shooting doves in Argentina or pigeons in Paraguay you want something soft shooting with some firepower. You would wear yourself out shooting an over & under or side by side in regard to the amount of times you would have to keep opening and closing those model types of shotguns.

You mentioned 300,000 rounds through your BT 99, this is over how many years? This amounts to only 7,500 rounds per year over the past 40 years. You can shoot that amount if you really want to hit it and your pockets are deep enough on one shooting trip alone in Argentina.

I've shot trap with the BT 99 and they are a hell of a trap gun, no question about that. For trap you can't beat them but I sure wouldn't want to use one for any kind of high volume bird shooting. So..... like I mentioned earlier it depends greatly on what you intend to use the firearm for before you plunk your money down.

Best regards,

Bob Aronsohn


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## darkgael

Bloodn: You have a romantic streak - "a classic side by side for the thick grouse covers". Yeah. There's a spot where you won't miss that third shot since you don't have time to take it (maybe not the second either).
I love doubles, especially SXSs. Don't be turned away by the sighting plane thing. If you are hunting the woodland drummer, you're shooting instinctively, ala Churchill, and not even seeing the barrels. Clay pigeons - a different game, I believe.
I cannot presume to give you advice about which to buy though. All of my SXSs are older guns that I bought used - Lefever, Parker, Ithaca. None of them is less than 7lbs. But...they all come to my shoulder like they were made for me. 
That being said, I've looked at the two Benellis that have been mentioned and will look again. The idea of carrying a gun at 6lbs. is very attractive.
Pete


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