# Your thoughts on President Obama?



## V formation

If you think Obama has done a pisstol poor job of running the country, you will enjoy this article. He lays things ON the line and says it how it is in America today!

http://voices.yahoo.com/on-campaign-tra ... html?cat=9


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## specialpatrolgroup

Lesson # 1:

* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
* Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000

Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:

* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts: $385

Got It ?????

OK now
Lesson # 2:

Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:
Let's say, You come home from work and find there has been a sewer
backup in
your neighborhood....and your home has sewage all the way up to your
ceilings.
What do you think you should do ....... Raise the ceilings, or pump out
the
crap? Your choice is coming Nov. 2012


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## Dick Monson

A good place for political posts is in the political form. Probably why it is named the Political Form.


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## shaug

Specialpatrolgroup wrote,



> Lesson # 1:
> 
> * U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
> * Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
> * New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
> * National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
> * Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000
> 
> Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:
> 
> * Annual family income: $21,700
> * Money the family spent: $38,200
> * New debt on the credit card: $16,500
> * Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
> * Total budget cuts: $385
> 
> Got It ?????
> 
> OK now
> Lesson # 2:
> 
> Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:
> Let's say, You come home from work and find there has been a sewer
> backup in
> your neighborhood....and your home has sewage all the way up to your
> ceilings.
> What do you think you should do ....... Raise the ceilings, or pump out
> the
> crap? Your choice is coming Nov. 2012


You get two thumbs up. Very good post. :beer: :thumb: :thumb:

Dick Monson wrote,



> A good place for political posts is in the political form. Probably why it is named the Political Form.


Dick, no one reads the political forum. The views are low.


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## zzyzx

I will vote for Barack Obama before Mitt Romney. Any idiot who believes American Indians are really Hebrew descendants, the he will one day be God, with hundreds of 'wives' producing babies to populate the Worlds he will create is not someone who should ever be in public office.

Yep Romney - whose slogan "Believe in America" should reflect his personal reality " I Believe in America - I bank offshore".


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## duckp

Oh yeh,go with the messiah.Or,maybe think a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Z6QOscKvUjU?ve ... detailpage


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## Capt Rick Hiott

,,,,,,"I will vote for Barack Obama before Mitt Romney."

You need to be commetted to the nut house,,,along with the rest of'em...............


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## spentwings

zzyzx said:


> I will vote for Barack Obama before Mitt Romney. his


 :rollin:

I will vote for an idiot before Barack Obama.
That's why I voted for McCain.
Even back then,,,I knew Barack was slimier than your average slime ball.


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## ShineRunner

It is kinda like another post I made. I would vote for our local dog catcher before voting for the one that is in office. Romney wasn't my man in the fight for the nomination but I will vote for him to do all I can to get rid of what is in the WH now. Like I said our dog catcher would make a much better president than obamie.


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## BillThomas

Vote for another Repubicrud Rino, so America can go back to sleep while the nation gets looted yet again.


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## Plainsman

> BillThomas"]Vote for another Repubicrud Rino, so America can go back to sleep while the nation gets looted yet again.


So what is the alternative? Should we vote for someone who hasn't got a chance. Should we split the conservative vote so Obama gets in again? So what's the solution?
I think your graph is propaganda. Do you remember Obama going to Bush and asking him to sign the first bail out so he would have the money readily available for "shovel ready jobs" when he took office. I think the mistake Bush made was signing it to "help" Obama. Now Obama counts that as Bush spending. He is sort of right, but Obama and the democrats are the ones who believe in Keynesian economics.


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## Chuck Smith

That graph could be correct.

But lets look at this deeper.... Who was running congress in bush's second term when the spending spiked? Democrats! Who introduced spending legislation during those last years or who was bush trying to appease or work with....Democrats! Also this graph doesn't tell the whole truth....How much of the spending in Bush's presidency was or is because of legislation that was passed by Clinton? Just like if Obama does not get re-elected.....how much of the health care bill spending will be on the next presidents term.... I can answer that....ALL OF IT. Why do you think Obama pushed out those time frames for the health care bill.....so it doesn't look like he did all the spending. Pass it forward as they say.

Now I am not saying Bush was a great/good president. But he had some good legislation that he introduced that got shot down by the Democrats. He produced some good farm bills that got shot down or reworked because of the Democrats. His hands were tied. I believe that Congress wanted him to fail on a grand scale so they could have the democratic canidate be a shoe in for the presidency.....which is what happened.


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## Plainsman

Your right Chuck the graph is correct, but misleading. The vast majority of that spending as you have already shown was passed by congress. I think if Obama had not asked Bush to sign that first democrat passed stimulus package (because he needed the minute he took office for his shovel ready jobs) Bush would have vetoed it. Maybe not, he didn't veto enough. That was his biggest mistake, going along with what congress sent him. He was strong in foreign relations, but a pushover for congress. He needed more guts behind his principles.


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## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> BillThomas"]Vote for another Repubicrud Rino, so America can go back to sleep while the nation gets looted yet again.
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the alternative? Should we vote for someone who hasn't got a chance. Should we split the conservative vote so Obama gets in again? So what's the solution?.
Click to expand...

Vote Independendt, Support Constitution loving politicians like Ron Paul.
Better yet, start Grassroots movements, run city counicl, school boards and take back this country one district at a time.
Supporting Corporate sponsored seel out politicians does not help us.
The lesser of 2 evils is still evil.



> I think your graph is propaganda.


What you think and what is factual are 2 different things. 
I cant help you.











> Do you remember Obama going to Bush and asking him to sign the first bail out so he would have the money readily available for "shovel ready jobs" when he took office.


 Bush didnt Veto One spending Bill, EVER.
He was a disaster in every way. And Bush suported the Bailouts of his own accord. And it was Treasonous.



> I think the mistake Bush made was signing it to "help" Obama. Now Obama counts that as Bush spending. He is sort of right, but Obama and the democrats are the ones who believe in Keynesian economics.


Help? 
They are one in the same.
America is a 1 party system, I cant stress this enough. 2 cheeks of the same backside.


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## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> That graph could be correct.
> 
> But lets look at this deeper.... Who was running congress in bush's second term when the spending spiked? Democrats! Who introduced spending legislation during those last years or who was bush trying to appease or work with....Democrats!
> Now I am not saying Bush was a great/good president. But he had some good legislation that he introduced that got shot down by the Democrats. He produced some good farm bills that got shot down or reworked because of the Democrats. His hands were tied. I believe that Congress wanted him to fail on a grand scale so they could have the democratic canidate be a shoe in for the presidency.....which is what happened.


Incorrect. 
Democrats Spent no differently than Republicruds. 
Generally, Dems Tax and Spend. 
Republicruds Borrow and spend, financing money from the Fed Reserve, (At Interest). 
In the end, its the same.

The Chart doesnt Lie. Broken down annually.









Bush was a Disaster.
Got us into the worst and longest blunders in military history, next to England trying to conquer Afganistan for 80 years and then finanlly pulling out. 
We will never recover from this, we are broke, we are hated, and its all financed, and the chickens will come home to roost.

And Obama is equally as bad as the (Pro Illegal Immigration) Presidente Boosh.


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## Plainsman

> and the chickens will come home to roost.


 :rollin: Now where have I heard that before? :rollin:



> Vote Independendt, Support Constitution loving politicians like Ron Paul.
> Better yet, start Grassroots movements, run city counicl, school boards and take back this country one district at a time.
> Supporting Corporate sponsored seel out politicians does not help us.


Can you implement all this before November? If not then who should we vote for while your working on it? Can it be accomplished for 2016? Can we survive until 2016? I think your having a pie in the sky dream, but give it a shot. If you have enough people thinking like you and you can put up a good candidate I'm all with you. Ron Paul would be another disaster.


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## Chuck Smith

You are right this chart doesn't lie....but it also doesn't tell the whole truth. Like I mentioned how much of this spending under bush was all written into law by Clinton??? Just like in 2014 who ever the president is and the spending that will happen because of the health care bill. On a graph who will it show that did the spending.....the president in office in 2014 not the president that pushed for the bill or the congress that passed it. You get my point!!!

Then again....who was in control of the congress who passed bills that even if the president would veto they would ram in through with a 2/3 vote by both the house and senate......which would have happened.



> In the United States, Congress can override a presidential veto by two-thirds majority votes in both the House of Representatives and the Senate, thus enacting the bill into law despite the president's veto. However, a veto may not be overridden if it is a pocket veto, a veto in which the president simply ignores a bill between congressional sessions. The veto override is part of the checks and balances built into the United States constitution, whereby various branches of the U.S. government can limit each others' power.


I take it Mr. Thomas that you are one of those people who Blame Bush for all of this. I have one question for you. The housing crisis is one of the main things that crippled our economy. Who was the president that made it easy to get mortgages? Who was the president that pushed for loosening the restrictions on lending practices? Who was the president that had the dream that every US citizen should own a home? I will give you a couple hints....it wasn't President Bush.....and he likes to play the a brass instrument....he had a nickname of slick willy.



> In 1999, Fannie Mae came under pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans to low and moderate income borrowers by increasing the ratios of their loan portfolios in distressed inner city areas designated in the CRA of 1977.[18] Additionally, institutions in the primary mortgage market pressed Fannie Mae to ease credit requirements on the mortgages it was willing to purchase, enabling them to make loans to subprime borrowers at interest rates higher than conventional loans.[18]


Now here is what people are not realizing what the housing crisis did:
1. The obvious of people spending more than they could afford and losing homes.

2. Many people went into the Real Estate Job force leaving behind other jobs that are now outsourced to other countries. Mortgage lenders, Real Estate Agents, Appraisers, Financial Advisers, Contractors, Developers, Relocation Companies, Loan Processors, Home Inspectors, etc.
- Now these people are out of work sucking off the goverment teat and their old jobs are no longer in the USA.

3. Banks made bad loans and asked for bail outs....again sucking off the goverment teat

4. The US borrowing $$$ from other countries for the bail outs? (who voted for them and who pushed for the bail outs??)

5. The more funding that was needed for FHA, Freddie, Fanny, VA loans that were backed by the goverment.

So to get back to my point is that much of Bush's spending (along with Obama's) can be traced back to some of the laws that were put in place by President Clinton. Then we got Idiots in Congress that would rather raise the debt ceiling than cut spending.

Now I agree with you that we should go back on the gold standard totally. I am also not saying the republican's are the best for this nation. We as a nation need a good checks and balance of Many parties. We need to keep everyone in line. What needs to happen is that elected officials can't be just blindly voting on party lines. I understand if a particular party got you into office so if you lean/vote slightly in that direction it is understandable. But yet they have to realize that 50% of the country does not see it that way (in a 2 party system). They need to do what is right for the country as a whole not just for the people who voted them in.


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## Plainsman

Lets not forget all those liberal congressmen who pushed so everyone could own a house. I think the guy at the head of that line was the guy who didn't know his boyfriend was running a male prostitute ring out of his basement.


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## huntin1

Yeah, the line at the bottom of your graph gives us some indication of it's "factualness". FactCheck.org aint got the best reputation for presenting "factual" information, especially where Obama and the Democraps are concerned.

The sky is falling, blame Bush, blame Bush. What a tired old line. He may have not been our best President, but he was leaps and bounds above what is in the White House right now.

huntin1


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## ShineRunner

Exactly!!!



Plainsman said:


> He may have not been our best President, but he was leaps and bounds above what is in the White House right now.


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> Yeah, the line at the bottom of your graph gives us some indication of it's "factualness". FactCheck.org aint got the best reputation for presenting "factual" information, especially where Obama and the Democraps are concerned.
> 
> The sky is falling, blame Bush, blame Bush. What a tired old line. He may have not been our best President, but he was leaps and bounds above what is in the White House right now.
> 
> huntin1


Bush Lied us into 2 Disasterous Wars and Needless Occupations, Costing Trillions -Unfunded-, and brought on the Economic/ Housing criss and First Bailouts..

We will never rebound from his treachery and incompetence.


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> Yeah, the line at the bottom of your graph gives us some indication of it's "factualness". FactCheck.org aint got the best reputation for presenting "factual" information, especially where Obama and the Democraps are concerned.
> 
> The sky is falling, blame Bush, blame Bush. What a tired old line. He may have not been our best President, but he was leaps and bounds above what is in the White House right now.
> 
> huntin1


Dept of the Treaury Chart for you then....Ask and you shall receive.


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## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> You are right this chart doesn't lie....but it also doesn't tell the whole truth. Like I mentioned how much of this spending under bush was all written into law by Clinton??? Just like in 2014 who ever the president is and the spending that will happen because of the health care bill. On a graph who will it show that did the spending.....the president in office in 2014 not the president that pushed for the bill or the congress that passed it. You get my point!!!
> 
> Then again....who was in control of the congress who passed bills that even if the president would veto they would ram in through with a 2/3 vote by both the house and senate......which would have happened. ..


Republicruds / Ala Neo CON Bush controlled House and Senate for 4 years, and Lied us into 2 Disasterous wars, and started the Housing Crisis.



> I take it Mr. Thomas that you are one of those people who Blame Bush for all of this. I have one question for you. The housing crisis is one of the main things that crippled our economy. Who was the president that made it easy to get mortgages? Who was the president that pushed for loosening the restrictions on lending practices? Who was the president that had the dream that every US citizen should own a home? I will give you a couple hints....it wasn't President Bush.....and he likes to play the a brass instrument....he had a nickname of slick willy..


Bush was a nightmare. RINOs are Nightmares. But Dems are No better. 
And I voted Ron Paul. Now that thats out of the way. Let me say that to your point Rel Clinton.
Not lending TO Minorites was made illegal on his watch for good reason. 
Lending standards didnt change, just WHERE the loans were made-Ghettos to Working black folks with Jobs, Credit, Down payment and fully underwritten via CONV and FHA Regs. You argument is Silly. Those loans Performed, repayment was excellent. Subprime didnt originate under Clinto, But Bush! They were Liars Loans. And Fraudulent, and it was all well known. But they too were only 15% of the mortgage market, Its the Economy that destroyed the Housing Market.



> In 1999, Fannie Mae came under pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans to low and moderate income borrowers by increasing the ratios of their loan portfolios in distressed inner city areas designated in the CRA of 1977.[18] Additionally, institutions in the primary mortgage market pressed Fannie Mae to ease credit requirements on the mortgages it was willing to purchase, enabling them to make loans to subprime borrowers at interest rates higher than conventional loans.[18].


Clinton/Carter made it Illegal to NOT Loan TO Blacks in Ghetto areas. They did not allow banks to Commit Fraud and loosen underwriting regs. 
Loans made TO minorities had Excellent Repayent histories as most requred Down Payments and Jobs to loan on.



> Now here is what people are not realizing what the housing crisis did:
> 1. The obvious of people spending more than they could afford and losing homes..





> 2. Many people went into the Real Estate Job force leaving behind other jobs that are now outsourced to other countries. Mortgage lenders, Real Estate Agents, Appraisers, Financial Advisers, Contractors, Developers, Relocation Companies, Loan Processors, Home Inspectors, etc.
> - Now these people are out of work sucking off the goverment teat and their old jobs are no longer in the USA.


Service sector jobs didnt grow that much in the 2000 decade. 
And the mortgage business has never been better, rates are record lows, but the economic numbers dont reflect that, Youre confused. 
Paper is not wealth..PRODUCTION and Manufacturing IS. And those jobs LEFT..Forever. For slave labor and tax purposes due TO the FED Reserve/IRS.

3. Banks made bad loans and asked for bail outs....again sucking off the goverment teat[/quote] Just doing what they do best, stealing our money. And destroying our future.

4. The US borrowing $$$ from other countries for the bail outs? (who voted for them and who pushed for the bail outs??) [/quote]

5. The more funding that was needed for FHA, Freddie, Fanny, VA loans that were backed by the goverment.

So to get back to my point is that much of Bush's spending (along with Obama's) can be traced back to some of the laws that were put in place by President Clinton. Then we got Idiots in Congress that would rather raise the debt ceiling than cut spending.[/quote]



> Now I agree with you that we should go back on the gold standard totally. I am also not saying the republican's are the best for this nation. We as a nation need a good checks and balance of Many parties. We need to keep everyone in line. What needs to happen is that elected officials can't be just blindly voting on party lines. I understand if a particular party got you into office so if you lean/vote slightly in that direction it is understandable. But yet they have to realize that 50% of the country does not see it that way (in a 2 party system). They need to do what is right for the country as a whole not just for the people who voted them in.


Agreed.


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## huntin1

BillThomas said:


> Republicruds / Ala Neo CON Bush controlled House and Senate for 4 years, and Lied us into 2 Disasterous wars, and started the Housing Crisis.


Well, when you are wrong, you are really wrong.



> These are the leading culprits who actually caused the subprime
> mortgage collapse which then caused the current worldwide deep recession
> 1. Jimmy Carter pushed for and signed into law the
> Community Reinvestment Act which forced banks to
> lower their standards so that previously unqualified
> people could get a mortgage.
> 2. Bill Clinton then doubled-down on the Community Reinvestment
> Act and greatly lowered mortgage standards to
> allow a lot more unqualified borrowers to get loans.
> 3. Bill Clinton's Attorney General, Janet Reno, then intimidated
> banks with threats of legal action if they
> did not give loans to unqualified borrowers who
> would not have the income to pay the loans back.
> 4. A member of the Clinton administration, Franklin Raines
> was then put in charge of Fannie Mae by Bill Clinton. Fannie
> Mae bought up a majority of the bad loans made by
> banks to unqualified borrowers. Raines then falsified Fannie
> Mae financial reports so he could collect bonuses
> which totaled over $90 million for 5 years.
> 5. Senator Chris Dodd, head of the Senatorial Financial
> Committee, suppressed efforts by President
> George W. Bush and congressional Republicans to
> rein in the corruption at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> He got a very favorable loan by a bank associated
> with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He got large political
> campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and
> Freddie Mac.
> 6. Barney Frank, head of the House of Representatives
> Banking Committee, also suppressed efforts by President
> George W. Bush and Congressional Republicans to
> investigate corruption at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> 7. Barack Obama, while he was an attorney, filed lawsuits
> against banks on behalf of ACORN in order to
> force banks to give loans to people who could not afford
> to pay them back. Obama, while he was a U.S.
> Senator, also suppressed efforts by President George
> W. Bush and Republican Congressmen to investigate
> and rein in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.


From here: http://cesidio.com/Timeline-of-the-Housing-Crisis.php

That's ok though. Blame Bush, the rest of the socialists do too.

huntin1


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## Plainsman

> Bush Lied us into 2 Disasterous Wars and Needless Occupations, Costing Trillions -Unfunded-, and brought on the Economic/ Housing criss and First Bailouts..


Bill, congress seen the same evidence as Bush. They also voted to go into Iraq. If it was a blunder or not only history will tell us. Meanwhile most of us understand that democrats and republicans, and lets not forget foreign intelligence all led us into the war in Iraq.

Then they all voted to fund the war.

The housing crisis started when liberals said we must offer loans that lets every American own a home. Oh, by the way, great info there huntin1. I like you remember the whole timeline, and the ever increasing stupidity. I mostly remember Barney and friends.

Where is Sarah Palin when we need her?


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## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> Bush Lied us into 2 Disasterous Wars and Needless Occupations, Costing Trillions -Unfunded-, and brought on the Economic/ Housing criss and First Bailouts..
> 
> 
> 
> Bill, congress seen the same evidence as Bush. They also voted to go into Iraq.
Click to expand...

The evidence was Fabricated. We KNOW this now.

*"No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th,"
-George Bush 9-18-2003

'Iraq did not have the weapons our intelligence believed were there.' 
-Bush 10/7/2004

'The CIA gave us bad intelligence.' 
~George W. Bush, July 11, 2003

"We got it wrong. We have seen nothing to suggest that he had actual stockpiles." 
- Powell, Oct. 1, 2004

'For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. 
-Neo Con Paul Wolfowitz Vanity Fair interview May 28, 2003

"We were all unhappy that the intelligence was not as good as we had thought that it was. But the essential judgment was absolutely right. Saddam Hussein was a threat." 
- Rice, Oct. 3, 2004.

'We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more. 
-Colin Powell Remarks to UN Security Council February 5, 2003

'Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. 
-George Bush Address to the Nation March 17, 2003

'I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction. 
-Defense Policy Board member and Neo Con Kenneth Adelman 
Washington Post, p. A27 March 23, 2003

'We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat. 
-Donald Rumsfeld 
ABC Interview March 30, 2003

"I don't think we'll discover anything, myself. I think what will happen is we'll discover people who will tell us where to go find it. It is not like a treasure hunt where you just runaround looking everywhere hoping you find something. I just don't think that's going to happen. The inspectors didn't find anything, and I doubt that we will. What we will do is find the people who will tell us." 
~Donald Rumsfeld, April 17, 2003 *

5 Years and Counting: 10 Unpleasant Truths 
3/19/2008, Stephen Walt
1 Iraq may be the greatest blunder in U.S. foreign policy 
2 A smarter occupation would not have produced better results 
3 The war has done enormous damage to US interests in the Middle East 
4 The war has been a major setback against anti-US terrorism 
5 The "surge" has Failed as a strategy 
6 There is No prospect for a meaningful victory 
7 The war has done more damage to the armed forces than we know

Pentagon Inst calls Iraq war 'a Major Debacle' with Outcome 'In Doubt'
J. Landay & J. Walcott, McClatchy News
4/17/2008
WA-The war in Iraq has become "a major debacle" & the outcome "is In Doubt" despite improvements in security from the buildup in U.S. forces, a highly critical study published by the Pentagon's Premier Military educational institute
"Measured in blood & treasure, the war in Iraq has achieved the status of a Major war & a Major debacle," says the report's opening line



> If it was a blunder or not only history will tell us. Meanwhile most of us understand that democrats and republicans, and lets not forget foreign intelligence all led us into the war in Iraq.


1 million dead, 5 million refugees, 4 million Orphans, Cost of trillions, loss of standing everywhere in the world. By every measure, its a Failure.
In Afganistan, we control Less groud Now than we did in 2003. By anyones account, it is a Dismal failure in every regard.
No nation has ever conqueered Afganistan, and we refuse to learn from history.



> Then they all voted to fund the war.


We are enforcing UN resolutions, the basis for which are proven Lies.
No WMDs..



> The housing crisis started when liberals said we must offer loans that lets every American own a home. Oh, by the way, great info there huntin1. I like you remember the whole timeline, and the ever increasing stupidity. I mostly remember Barney and friends.


 Wrong again.
Loans could not be denied based on color under Clinton and Carter, and such loans performed. They didnt default. 
Thats a huckuva lot different than the Subprime Liar Loans that Bush, Greenspan, Wall Street promoted.



> Where is Sarah Palin when we need her?


Palin is simply Another idiot politician that supported the Bailouts. 
Ron Paul or Bust.


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> BillThomas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Republicruds / Ala Neo CON Bush controlled House and Senate for 4 years, and Lied us into 2 Disasterous wars, and started the Housing Crisis.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, when you are wrong, you are really wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the leading culprits who actually caused the subprime
> mortgage collapse which then caused the current worldwide deep recession
> 1. Jimmy Carter pushed for and signed into law the
> Community Reinvestment Act which forced banks to
> lower their standards so that previously unqualified
> people could get a mortgage.
> 2. Bill Clinton then doubled-down on the Community Reinvestment
> Act and greatly lowered mortgage standards to
> allow a lot more unqualified borrowers to get loans.
> 3. Bill Clinton's Attorney General, Janet Reno, then intimidated
> banks with threats of legal action if they
> did not give loans to unqualified borrowers who
> would not have the income to pay the loans back.
> 4. A member of the Clinton administration, Franklin Raines
> was then put in charge of Fannie Mae by Bill Clinton. Fannie
> Mae bought up a majority of the bad loans made by
> banks to unqualified borrowers. Raines then falsified Fannie
> Mae financial reports so he could collect bonuses
> which totaled over $90 million for 5 years.
> 5. Senator Chris Dodd, head of the Senatorial Financial
> Committee, suppressed efforts by President
> George W. Bush and congressional Republicans to
> rein in the corruption at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> He got a very favorable loan by a bank associated
> with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. He got large political
> campaign contributions from Fannie Mae and
> Freddie Mac.
> 6. Barney Frank, head of the House of Representatives
> Banking Committee, also suppressed efforts by President
> George W. Bush and Congressional Republicans to
> investigate corruption at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> 7. Barack Obama, while he was an attorney, filed lawsuits
> against banks on behalf of ACORN in order to
> force banks to give loans to people who could not afford
> to pay them back. Obama, while he was a U.S.
> Senator, also suppressed efforts by President George
> W. Bush and Republican Congressmen to investigate
> and rein in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From here: http://cesidio.com/Timeline-of-the-Housing-Crisis.php
> That's ok though. Blame Bush, the rest of the socialists do too.
> huntin1
Click to expand...

Bush himself was a Socialist. 
What else do you call Trillion + Bailouts for Banks?

Not Lending to a person based on His Skin Color, Race and Locale, IS discrimination.
The lending policices enacted by these administrations had NOTHING to do with the Housing Crisis!
Ive been in Lending for 25 years and can tell you first hand, Carter /Clinton et al had NOTHING to do with the Housing Crisis.
We had NO Crisis, No Defaults or underwater mortgage in these admins, and No Foreclosure crisis...

Bush promoted the Founder of the Subprime Mortgage, Roland Arnall, TO Ambassador of the Netherlands. 
He was never indicted, nor was any Bankster for this theft under Bushs watch. 
The economy fell apart under Boosh, due to The Disasterous Wars we got into, the policies of the FED which Bush promoted via Greenspan and Co, and the loss of manufacturing jobs under Pro Illegal Presidente Boosh as well.

Ive never seen so many partisan Boosh Cheerleaders in one place in my life than this forum.
Bush should be wearing an Orange Jumpsuit.


----------



## huntin1

OK then, whatever you say.










huntin1


----------



## BillThomas

Duplicate post


----------



## BillThomas

BillThomas said:


> huntin1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK then, whatever you say.
> huntin1
Click to expand...

Thats the best you have to further your point? I defended mine and I destroyed yours with facts.

Im sorry, I cant engage in a battle of wits with one who is unarmed.


----------



## huntin1

Ooohhhh, so witty.


----------



## Plainsman

> Not Lending to a person based on His Skin Color, Race and Locale, IS discrimination.


If the person doesn't have a job or any means of support it isn't racist. Oh, that's right under the liberal administrations it was still racist. If you had a pulse you could get a loan. Liberal administrations threatened banks if they didn't give loans. Old Janet Reno was chomping at the bit to tear bankers to shreds.



> The lending policices enacted by these administrations had NOTHING to do with the Housing Crisis!


Now your denying reality.



> We had NO Crisis, No Defaults or underwater mortgage in these admins, and No Foreclosure crisis...


It takes some time for large disasters to come to fruition. Like the foolish spending we have seen for 50 years. Or maybe you have not been around that long. How old were you when Jimmy Carter was president. I can tell you some history is not worth the paper it is written on.



> The evidence was Fabricated. We KNOW this now.


No, only bush hateing radicals think they know. Show me the evidence.

How many people must a weapon kill before it's considered a WMD? As far as I can remember we considered poison gas a WMD, and it doesn't just refer to nuclear weapons. Remember the 50,000 Kurds that Hussein gassed? I think part of the intelligence goof up should be laid to rest at the foot of Hussein. I remember one interview with Hussein. I thought he was trying to hint he had or was close to having WMD. At the time I thought he was bluffing. Rather than scarring us away it became the justification for the war. From my perspective that war was a mistake by all parties. That would include us, Great Britain, Germany, France, even Russian intelligence, and Hussein himself. All playing games that backfired. When I say us I mean the president, the congress, military intelligence, the whole ball of wax. Liberals led to some of our poor intelligence. Ever since we found how much money went to Noriega and what a jerk he was the liberals said we can't deal with people like that. That was just like a stick in the eye of our intelligence. If you want to know what the bad guys are doing sometimes you have to associate with bad people.


----------



## huntin1

oops, dang smartphone.


----------



## huntin1

BillThomas said:


> Thats the best you have to further your point? I defended mine and I destroyed yours with facts.
> 
> Im sorry, I cant engage in a battle of wits with one who is unarmed.


Facts? A graph or two that shows the increase in gov spending? We all are aware of that. The rest of your posts are rabid Bush hating rants unsupported with fact.

I've been down this road before, not going there again. Internet arguments are an exercise in futility and prove nothing. Especially when one bases their "facts" on propaganda.

Have a nice day.

Huntin1


----------



## Plainsman

huntin1 remember last election a guy posted all kinds of Palin bashing information. He held us to a high standard, but all of the information he was presenting came from a gay Alaskan blogger who hated Palin and it turned out none of it was true?

Bill, it appears your more of the middle of the road guy and not far left since you support Ron Paul. I like the way Ron Paul follows the constitution, and he had some great ideas about economics, but his foreign policy is about 200 years outdated. Today with the technological advances in transportation our enemies are just hours away and they will not let us simply ignore them. They will keep killing us like they did in New York until we give them the attention the deserve.

It's evident that most of your drive is towards hating Bush. I suppose it's a shock to you, but he isn't guilty of 1/4 of your accusations. Your following right along with those radicals that think our own government blew up the world trade center.


----------



## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> Not Lending to a person based on His Skin Color, Race and Locale, IS discrimination.
> If the person doesn't have a job or any means of support it isn't racist. Oh, that's right under the liberal administrations it was still racist. If you had a pulse you could get a loan. Liberal administrations threatened banks if they didn't give loans. Old Janet Reno was chomping at the bit to tear bankers to shreds.!


These Loans werent made to minorities who werent working. 
They were working, they required a doownpayment, ie tradional loans in non traditional areas, like Ghettos, inner cities is where were loans were made. You need a serious fact check.



> The lending policices enacted by these administrations had NOTHING to do with the Housing Crisis!
> Now your denying reality.


 Loans to Minorities did Not Default and cause a Crisis. They performed very well.



> No, only bush hateing radicals think they know. Show me the evidence.


Bush is hated worldwide, not just by Libertarian Constitutionalists like me. Next youll tell us the Patriot Act was a good bill, Illegal Immigration was Good and Bushs bialouts were good too. The man belongs in an Orange jumpsuit.
Evidence?

*'Iraq did not have the weapons our intelligence believed were there.' 
-Bush 10/7/2004 *

*'The CIA gave us bad intelligence.' 
~George W. Bush, July 11, 2003 *

"No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th,"
-George Bush 9-18-2003

"We got it wrong. We have seen nothing to suggest that he had actual stockpiles." 
- Powell, Oct. 1, 2004

'For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on. 
-Neo Con Paul Wolfowitz Vanity Fair interview May 28, 2003



> It takes some time for large disasters to come to fruition. Like the foolish spending we have seen for 50 years. Or maybe you have not been around that long. How old were you when Jimmy Carter was president. I can tell you some history is not worth the paper it is written on.


Carter inherited inflation from Fed Chariman Milton Freedman who took America OFF the Gold Standard (Fiat worthless debt notes), and the US meddling in the Yom Kippur War. 
Israel was losing, Oil was $3 a barrel. Almost Overnight, as a result of US interventionism, OPEC raised oil to punish us, and it went to $33, just a result of our intervention to Israel. 
We use 20 million barrels a day in this country. Do the math= Massive inflation. Trillions in subsidy to protect dear old Israel..
Carter is a fall guy for failed foreign policy.



> How many people must a weapon kill before it's considered a WMD? As far as I can remember we considered poison gas a WMD, and it doesn't just refer to nuclear weapons. Remember the 50,000 Kurds that Hussein gassed? I think part of the intelligence goof up should be laid to rest at the foot of Hussein. I remember one interview with Hussein. I thought he was trying to hint he had or was close to having WMD. At the time I thought he was bluffing. Rather than scarring us away it became the justification for the war. From my perspective that war was a mistake by all parties. That would include us, Great Britain, Germany, France, even Russian intelligence, and Hussein himself. All playing games that backfired. When I say us I mean the president, the congress, military intelligence, the whole ball of wax. Liberals led to some of our poor intelligence. Ever since we found how much money went to Noriega and what a jerk he was the liberals said we can't deal with people like that. That was just like a stick in the eye of our intelligence. If you want to know what the bad guys are doing sometimes you have to associate with bad people.


USA and Rumsfeld SOLD Saddam his gas. Photos of them shaking hands are all over the net.
Saddam hanged for killing 151 Shiits. Not 50,000 Kurds.
The same Kirds the USA told to revolt, Did, and we left them stranded. There never were any WNDs, we KNOW this now, its record FROM THE White House spokesmen.


----------



## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> BillThomas said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thats the best you have to further your point? I defended mine and I destroyed yours with facts.
> 
> Im sorry, I cant engage in a battle of wits with one who is unarmed.
> 
> 
> 
> Facts? A graph or two that shows the increase in gov spending? We all are aware of that. The rest of your posts are rabid Bush hating rants unsupported with fact.
> 
> I've been down this road before, not going there again. Internet arguments are an exercise in futility and prove nothing. Especially when one bases their "facts" on propaganda.
> 
> Have a nice day.
> 
> Huntin1
Click to expand...

Multiple Charts from the US Dept of the Treasury do not lie.
They are what they are.

Bush spent worse than a drunken sailor, not vetoing a single spending bill in office.
He Lied us Into 2 wars, Promoted Illegal Immigration, and presided over the largest economic and housing crisis in history.
Not to mention him signing the Patriot Act, which is treasonous.
And he still has his cheerleaders...pathetic.


----------



## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> huntin1 remember last election a guy posted all kinds of Palin bashing information. He held us to a high standard, but all of the information he was presenting came from a gay Alaskan blogger who hated Palin and it turned out none of it was true? .


Palin is another Bailout supporting politician. To be blunt, she is a moron.



> Bill, it appears your more of the middle of the road guy and not far left since you support Ron Paul. I like the way Ron Paul follows the constitution, and he had some great ideas about economics, but his foreign policy is about 200 years outdated.


The very foreign policy you claim is outdated, is exactly the one used by Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Argentina, Brazil, Ireland, Spain, Italy et al. Combined, they have a larger GDP than America.
Its Interesting how they have so few if any 'attacks'
We neednt operate 700 military bases in 140 countries and ally with Israel, who is hated in the world, and for good reason, and have a rogue CIA creating havoc in nations where we desire a puppet.



> Today with the technological advances in transportation our enemies are just hours away and they will not let us simply ignore them. They will keep killing us like they did in New York until we give them the attention the deserve.


 We wouldnt have any enemies if we didnt meddle in other nations affairs.
We have toppled more democracies than we've created, We've assassinated many democratic leaders, or backed groups that have.
Blowback is a real B*tch..meaning what coomes around, goes around. We were the light to the world a long time ago, when we had a humble foreign policy. Now we police the world and create havoc and their are costs and consequences for these actions. 
And I support a new investigation regarding 911.



> It's evident that most of your drive is towards hating Bush. I suppose it's a shock to you, but he isn't guilty of 1/4 of your accusations. Your following right along with those radicals that think our own government blew up the world trade center.


Bush is guilty of More than I acccuse him of, but Im keeping it simple, for the simpletons.

Research the USS Liberty and get back to me.
False flag attacks have been used by governments for centuries.


----------



## Plainsman

> Bush spent worse than a drunken sailor, not vetoing a single spending bill in office


He sure didn't veto enough. I don't know why he didn't fight the democrat congress more. I think he foolishly thought he was reaching across the isle. You can not reach across the Isle as McCain claims. Reach across the isle and a liberal will shake your hand with his right and stab you in the back with his left.



> These Loans werent made to minorities who werent working.


No they were made to anyone with a pulse. Freeloaders took out loans which they never planned on repaying. My last house loan I could have had three times what I wanted, and more than I could afford. Was the bank baiting me? I don't know, but I'm still responsible. Anyone with a brain should know they can't make $1000 payments when they only make $999 a month.



> USA and Rumsfeld SOLD Saddam his gas.


I think you have bought into the lets all be paranoid program. I'm not going to wear the tinfoil hat required. However, if it's true that still means Saddam had WMD which gas is classified as.



> Carter inherited inflation


lol, your going to make excuses for Carter. A true libertarian dislikes Carter as much as we who are conservatives. please notice I refer to myself as a conservative, and would never consider myself republican anymore. I am in agreement with you that both parties have lost their minds. I would include Ron Paul in the lost mind group also.



> The very foreign policy you claim is outdated, is exactly the one used by Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Argentina, Brazil, Ireland, Spain, Italy et al. Combined, they have a larger GDP than America.


So they have a large GDP. What's the significance of that as related to national security? You know why those countries don't have to spend so much? Because we spend to much. I agree we should back off, but it isn't time to hunker down and ignore. The thing I like about backing off is those countries you just mentioned will have to start spending some of their money instead of ours for national security. The first move is cut all support to the United Nations.

I don't have the time to address all of your misunderstanding. I need time to play with a grandson right now. I'll just end with this: you say some things I agree with, but hate bush and Israel like a far left liberal. I think there is more to you than we see on the surface.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Bill....
You are not getting it. You blame bush and the spending.... How many of these bills were passed by Clinton and presidents before them. Many bills get pushed forward onto the next president. So the spending is already in the budget before they are president......again the health care bill is going to be on who ever is in office in 2014 budget. Unless the supreme court rules differently. As you look at one of your charts.....every year spending is higher and higher and higher. It never goes down. Because of too many bills and too many people getting hand outs.

Also with the housing crisis.... You are not putting up all the facts again. The "sub prime" lending or "predator lending" was targeted at low to middle income people. So it was targeted at the minorities and less informed. This was all because of the Clinton administration push for housing in america.

People with a part time job and on welfare were getting loans......All you had to do is prove income. Yes some people on welfare got loans.....again the predator lending. Programs were made for housing assistance.

Here is an example. When I graduated college in 2000. I was looking to buy a home, truck, etc. I just started my career (owning my own insurance agency and real estate brokerage). I did not have a dime to my name. I paid for my college with out loans and worked my butt off. So I had zero assests. I went to go buy a truck. My credit score was 698. They told me I would need a co-signer on the loan at the dealer ship. I told them I can get a loan to purchase a house but I have to have a co-signer for a truck! So I called my banker right on the spot and got a loan through my bank. So i was upset and wanted to prove a point so I called many of the Mortgage Lenders that would stop in my office....ie countrywide associates. I called one up and asked what I could get qualified for.......I got qualified for $300,000. Again out of college with out any debt but no assests....$300,000 i got qualified for. Why do you think I got qualified for that much....lending rules got loosened up. Again WHO LOOSENED THEM UP! CLINTON. Great now I am sounding like BT and blaming clinton for everything that is wrong in the world like he does with bush. :rollin:

You also state that interest rates are at an all time low.... Only reason is because the goverment wants people to borrow money. To be honest to get the nation back on tract they need to raise the interest rates. This will hopefully boost investor confidence and in turn help rebuild our economy. Interest rates need to climb.....now they don't need to go back to 18-20-30% like in the late 70's and early 80's. But they need to be around that 7-10% area. That is still not a bad loan at all.

Then again you talk about how the US had jobs get outsourced because of tax laws and want not. Who implemented many of these tax laws?? Look that stuff up.

Also with the loss of manufacturing jobs..... Many of the manufacturing jobs lost were once making siding, nails, shingles, lumber, and other building materials. Hmmmm.......Did the housing crisis have something to do with that? Also people left the factories for other jobs or became self employed.....they went to work as realtors, appraisers, mortgage brokers, mortgage processors, contractors, plumbers, siders, roofers, pouring cement, builders, developers, surveyors, etc. Then you take into account that the kids or up coming work force shifted towards these jobs as well.....now many of them are out of work. All because of the housing crisis. I stated many many many posts and years ago that the housing crisis was going to have a bigger affect on the nation than people would realize.


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## Plainsman

Bill you will be surprised who you run into on this form.



> I cant engage in a battle of wits with one who is unarmed.


You just aimed that at a fellow who went back to college and did his masters. I don't put people into categories by education or vocation, but in this instance I just thought it best you have some information about the people you think are stupid.


----------



## Gunny

Bill T Said
_'Bush is hated worldwide, not just by *Libertarian Constitutionalists like me*.'_

Sure sound like a Lib to me. After reading your posts, you have some good points however if you look into what you are saying a little deeper there is a trend that leans left.

Your use of certain phrases for one party vs. the other party speaks volumes. How many times are the words Repubicrud, Rino, and Neo Cons used by you. Yet 0 derogitory coments on the Democrat front other than "their bad too".

Bush wasn't that great, however the fact you have defended the Democrat line shows your true blue colors.
- _Those loans Performed, repayment was excellent. Subprime didnt originate under Clinto, But Bush! They were Liars Loans. And Fraudulent, and it was all well known. But they too were only 15% of the mortgage market, Its the Economy that destroyed the Housing Market._
- _Clinton/Carter made it Illegal to NOT Loan TO Blacks in Ghetto areas. They did not allow banks to Commit Fraud and loosen underwriting regs. 
Loans made TO minorities had Excellent Repayent histories as most requred Down Payments and Jobs to loan on._
- _Loans could not be denied based on color under Clinton and Carter, and such loans performed. They didnt default. 
Thats a huckuva lot different than the Subprime Liar Loans that Bush, Greenspan, Wall Street promoted._
- _The evidence was Fabricated. We KNOW this now._
- _Ive never seen so many partisan Boosh Cheerleaders in one place in my life than this forum.
Bush should be wearing an Orange Jumpsuit._
- _Ive been in Lending for 25 years and can tell you first hand, Carter /Clinton et al had NOTHING to do with the Housing Crisis.
We had NO Crisis, No Defaults or underwater mortgage in these admins, and No Foreclosure crisis..._
- _USA and Rumsfeld SOLD Saddam his gas. Photos of them shaking hands are all over the net._
- _Carter inherited inflation from Fed Chariman Milton Freedman who took America OFF the Gold Standard (Fiat worthless debt notes), and the US meddling in the Yom Kippur War. _
- _Bush is guilty of More than I acccuse him of, but Im keeping it simple, for the simpletons._

You seem to have MUCH more hatred for the right *** opposed to the left. That is an odd place to be for a Ron Paul Libertarian.

I also noticed a couple of those spending charts you posted abruptly end during the transition from Bush to Obama. What would those charts look like if they were up to date?

My point is that although Bush was not known for his lack of spending, you seem to think that everything up to this point was caused by 1 entity. Bush. Yet not one stern word about the congress that voted us into war (right or wrong) or the last 4 years other than the Democrats (respectful at least) are just as bad...

I believe Cyndi Lauper said it best..."I see your ture colors (blue) shining through"

Carry on,

Gunny


----------



## BillThomas

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, USA is a 1 party system.
Both parties and all politicians sort of Ron Paul, are Pro Federal Reserve (Ponzi Scheme) and Pro Israel. Thats all that matters. 
Everything else is theatrics. 











Gunny said:


> Bill T Said
> _'Bush is hated worldwide, not just by *Libertarian Constitutionalists like me*.'_
> Sure sound like a Lib to me. After reading your posts, you have some good points however if you look into what you are saying a little deeper there is a trend that leans left.


If by 'Lib' you mean Constitutionalist Libertarian, than youre correct.
We would not have Obama if Bush was a real and Not fake RINO conservative, nor would Ron Paul be running for office if we had real Republicans, we dont., That party has sold out just like the DEMs, only more slick in fashion.
Americas image was forever altered by Bush and the Neo CONS, that led and lied us into war. 
We went from the most loved and admired nations to one of the most hated, And theres alot of competition for that title (Gallup Poll). And its not with company I wish to keep.



> Your use of certain phrases for one party vs. the other party speaks volumes. How many times are the words Repubicrud, Rino, and Neo Cons used by you. Yet 0 derogitory coments on the Democrat front other than "their bad too".


They sure arent sonservatives, so they are the most fitting names. 
JFK, arguably our best President ever (Assassinated by the CIA and Israeli Mossad for introducing Interest free currency and opposing Nukes for Israel), and a DEM, makes these fools that wear an 'R' look like liberals.



> Bush wasn't that great, however the fact you have defended the Democrat line shows your true blue colors.





> You seem to have MUCH more hatred for the right a$$ opposed to the left. That is an odd place to be for a Ron Paul Libertarian.


 Not great? Im an equal opportunity hater.
That said: Bush is a war criminal, a Murderer, a Liar, Deceiever, and Neo CON that destroyed the Republican party.
I can discuss Obama later, but not if you believe Bush was a good President, If you do, you are part of the problem.



> I also noticed a couple of those spending charts you posted abruptly end during the transition from Bush to Obama. What would those charts look like if they were up to date?


 They can easily be updated, spending hasnt increased drastically from the last 3 years of Obama. Its still way to high however.



> My point is that although Bush was not known for his lack of spending, you seem to think that everything up to this point was caused by 1 entity. Bush. Yet not one stern word about the congress that voted us into war (right or wrong) or the last 4 years other than the Democrats (respectful at least) are just as bad...


 Not known for his lack of spending???! 
That was all Bush DID! 
Congress was a Repub House and Senate that voted us to enforce UN Resolutions, we are NOT at war, technically. We are enforcing UN Resolutions. 
Both are proven lies. NO 911 ties, NO WMDs.



> I believe Cyndi Lauper said it best..."I see your ture colors (blue) shining through"


And your Color of Pink, for Bush is shining through as well.


----------



## Gunny

Bil T said _"If by 'Lib' you mean Constitutionalist Libertarian, than youre correct"._

No... I'm pretty sure I got it right the 1st time...
Again with the infantile name calling

(_Assassinated by the CIA and Israeli Mossad for introducing Interest free currency and opposing Nukes for Israel)_

I don't work here, but I think the foil hats are in isle 3

Not great? Im an equal opportunity hater.
That said: Bush is a war criminal, a Murderer, a Liar, Deceiever, and Neo CON that destroyed the Republican party.
*I can discuss Obama later*, but not if you believe Bush was a good President, If you do, you are part of the problem.

Again more name calling in true Liberal fashion
Also you may want to read the title of this thred... It is actually about the Obama presidency...it might help you to understand why you have been outed as the true leftist you are Comrade.

spending hasnt increased drastically from the last 3 years of Obama

Obamas health care plan hasn't been enacted yet either...

Not known for his lack of spending???! 
That was all Bush DID!

Re-read that again a little slower... I'll wait

Got it?

And lastly

"And your Color of Pink, for Bush is shining through as well".

Good one... You got me.

Dosvedanya Comrade... :beer:


----------



## Plainsman

I hate it when I post something and it goes blank. It's like having to backtrack ten miles.

Anyway:


> JFK, arguably our best President ever (Assassinated by the CIA and Israeli Mossad for introducing Interest free currency and opposing Nukes for Israel),


Oh oh, my black helicopter warning system just pegged out.

Do you remember JFK? I do. I thought he was a liberal through and through. Not by today's standards, but in his time he was very liberal. Today he would perhaps run as a republican. I would guess though that as time went by he would have become more liberal just like Teddy. The media and democrats simply hold JFK up as the next thing to an American king and to many people have bought into it. Why is it a total jerk gets killed and all of a sudden he's a hero. Dead or alive he was less than valuable to this nation. What you hear about JFK is about 95% liberal propagated myth.

Gunny, I'm with you. Words mean things, and the words BT uses sound very liberal. Sounds to me like a hybrid of our old friends Mlitant Tiger, and Ryan, crossed with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad . Hmmm I had no idea, I have never met a libertarian that dislike Bush much if at all. Did I spell that right or is it liberalterian? :wink:


----------



## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> I hate it when I post something and it goes blank. It's like having to backtrack ten miles.


I agree.



> Oh oh, my black helicopter warning system just pegged out.


We were once told that smoking was good for us, and that the Mafia didnt exist either...thought to be conspiracies



> Do you remember JFK? I do. I thought he was a liberal through and through. Not by today's standards, but in his time he was very liberal. Today he would perhaps run as a republican. I would guess though that as time went by he would have become more liberal just like Teddy. The media and democrats simply hold JFK up as the next thing to an American king and to many people have bought into it. Why is it a total jerk gets killed and all of a sudden he's a hero. Dead or alive he was less than valuable to this nation. What you hear about JFK is about 95% liberal propagated myth.


JFK Wanted to deescalate Vietnam, JFK Opposed Nukes for Israel, and introduced Interest free currency.
Havent been many books banned in America, but 1 written by my friend Michael Collins Piper FINAL JUDGEMENT, details the Isreali Mossad and CIA behind the murder, (Bestseller overseas) and is officially Banned in America.
They did it.

They also did the USS LIBERTY, Lavon Affair and King David Hotel Bombing. These are documented false flag events where Israelis were caught.
With JFK gone, we went from 16,000 advisors to 380,000 troops in 1 year under Johnson, and the False flag lie aka Gulf Of Tonkin, now a Proven Lie, due to the FOIA act. 
It Never Happened and 58,000 US soldiers died, 2 million Vietnamese died to Bolshvize Vietnam and overthrow their Democracy (Diem) and install a Puppet given us gas/oil rights offshore, and make it friendly for trade. Not to mention the Heroin running (CIA) in the triangle.



> Gunny, I'm with you. Words mean things, and the words BT uses sound very liberal. Sounds to me like a hybrid of our old friends Mlitant Tiger, and Ryan, crossed with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad . Hmmm I had no idea, I have never met a libertarian that dislike Bush much if at all. Did I spell that right or is it liberalterian? :wink:


*"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It's just a g*ddamned piece﻿ of paper!"
- George W. Bush*

Bush words speak for itself...defend tham if you wish to.


----------



## BillThomas

Gunny said:


> Bil T said _"If by 'Lib' you mean Constitutionalist Libertarian, than youre correct"._
> 
> No... I'm pretty sure I got it right the 1st time...
> Again with the infantile name calling
> 
> (_Assassinated by the CIA and Israeli Mossad for introducing Interest free currency and opposing Nukes for Israel)_
> 
> I don't work here, but I think the foil hats are in isle 3
> 
> Not great? Im an equal opportunity hater.
> That said: Bush is a war criminal, a Murderer, a Liar, Deceiever, and Neo CON that destroyed the Republican party.
> *I can discuss Obama later*, but not if you believe Bush was a good President, If you do, you are part of the problem.
> 
> Again more name calling in true Liberal fashion
> Also you may want to read the title of this thred... It is actually about the Obama presidency...it might help you to understand why you have been outed as the true leftist you are Comrade.
> Good one... You got me.
> Dosvedanya Comrade... :beer:


*"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It's just a g*ddamned piece﻿ of paper!"
- G.W. Bush*

Defend away.

Israel killed 34 US Sailors and wounded 170, including a friend of mine in a deliberate attack of the USS Liberty in 1967.
It was covered up, No investigation has ever been done. 
They attacked the LIBERTY (To be blamed on Egypt) for 2 hours as long as Pearl Harbor. 
And yet, weve never heard of it.
Thats the power of the Israel Lobby. John McCains Father-Admiral, led the cover up.

This is the USS Liberty below.
Is this conspiracy tin foil too? Are the lives of US Servicement a joke to you? 
5 torpedoes, 5000- 50 caliber rounds, Napalm to burn our boys alive (War Crime) and helicopters with Israeli soldiers to 'Finish off' our men, before Russia chased them away.


----------



## Plainsman

> "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It's just a g*ddamned piece﻿ of paper!"
> - G.W. Bush


Sorry for being lazy and not looking myself. If you could provide a link it would be a great help. One of the things about Obama that ticks me of is he once said the constitution was a hindrance. I think if we stray from it we will pass into history like all nations do.

Some of your statements sound real wacked out, but if you can show me some proof I'm willing to listen.


----------



## huntin1

BillThomas said:


> *"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It's just a g*ddamned piece﻿ of paper!"
> - G.W. Bush*
> 
> Defend away.
> 
> Israel killed 34 US Sailors and wounded 170, including a friend of mine in a deliberate attack of the USS Liberty in 1967.
> It was covered up, No investigation has ever been done.
> They attacked the LIBERTY (To be blamed on Egypt) for 2 hours as long as Pearl Harbor.
> And yet, weve never heard of it.
> Thats the power of the Israel Lobby. John McCains Father-Admiral, led the cover up.
> 
> This is the USS Liberty below.
> Is this conspiracy tin foil too? Are the lives of US Servicement a joke to you?
> 5 torpedoes, 5000- 50 caliber rounds, Napalm to burn our boys alive (War Crime) and helicopters with Israeli soldiers to 'Finish off' our men, before Russia chased them away.


First the GWB quote, the site you like to rely on says it's false, never happened.

http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/bush-t ... -of-paper/



> FULL QUESTION
> 
> Is it true that President Bush called the Constitution a "goddamned piece of paper?" He has never denied it, and it appears that there were several witnesses.
> 
> FULL ANSWER
> 
> The report that Bush "screamed" those words at Republican congressional leaders in November 2005 is unsubstantiated, to put it charitably.
> 
> We judge that the odds that the report is accurate hover near zero. It comes from Capitol Hill Blue, a Web site that has a history of relying on phony sources, retracting stories and apologizing to its readers.
> 
> Update, Feb. 21, 2011: The author of the Capitol Hill Blue story has now withdrawn it.


As to the USS Liberty, I believe your information is accurate. It is unclear why they attacked it, but they did in fact do it.

huntin1


----------



## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, It's just a g*ddamned piece﻿ of paper!"
> - G.W. Bush
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for being lazy and not looking myself. If you could provide a link it would be a great help. One of the things about Obama that ticks me of is he once said the constitution was a hindrance. I think if we stray from it we will pass into history like all nations do.
> 
> Some of your statements sound real wacked out, but if you can show me some proof I'm willing to listen.
Click to expand...

Bush Laughs about NO WMDS-Mocking Our Dead..5-6 minutes





Bush giving the finger to the world





Bush calling the Elite Billionaires 'His Base'





*Bush - Constitution 'Just A G*ddamned Piece Of Paper'* By Doug Thompson
Capitol Hill Blue
12-9-5

Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act. 
Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way." 
"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution." 
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

I've talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper." 
And, to the Bush Administration, the Constitution of the United States is little more than toilet paper stained from all the **** that this group of power-mad despots have dumped on the freedoms that "goddamned piece of paper" used to guarantee.

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, while still White House counsel, wrote that the "Constitution is an outdated document." 
Put aside, for a moment, political affiliation or personal beliefs. It doesn't matter if you are a Democrat, Republican or Independent. It doesn't matter if you support the invasion or Iraq or not. Despite our differences, the Constitution has stood for two centuries as the defining document of our government, the final source to determine ­ in the end ­ if something is legal or right.

Every federal official ­ including the President ­ who takes an oath of office swears to "uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States." 
Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia says he cringes when someone calls the Constitution a "living document." 
""Oh, how I hate the phrase we have-a 'living document,'" Scalia says. "We now have a Constitution that means whatever we want it to mean. The Constitution is not a living organism, for Pete's sake."

As a judge, Scalia says, "I don't have to prove that the Constitution is perfect; I just have to prove that it's better than anything else."

President Bush has proposed seven amendments to the Constitution over the last five years, including a controversial amendment to define marriage as a "union between a man and woman." Members of Congress have proposed some 11,000 amendments over the last decade, ranging from repeal of the right to bear arms to a Constitutional ban on abortion.

Scalia says the danger of tinkering with the Constitution comes from a loss of rights. 
"We can take away rights just as we can grant new ones," Scalia warns. "Don't think that it's a one-way street."

And don't buy the White House hype that the USA Patriot Act is a necessary tool to fight terrorism. It is a dangerous law that infringes on the rights of every American citizen and, as one brave aide told President Bush, something that undermines the Constitution of the United States.

But why should Bush care? After all, the Constitution is just "a goddamned piece of paper." 
© Copyright 2005 by Capitol Hill Blue

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/p ... 7779.shtml


----------



## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> BillThomas said:
> 
> 
> 
> First the GWB quote, the site you like to rely on says it's false, never happened.
> 
> http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/bush-t ... -of-paper/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FULL QUESTION
> 
> Is it true that President Bush called the Constitution a "goddamned piece of paper?" He has never denied it, and it appears that there were several witnesses.
> 
> The report that Bush "screamed" those words at Republican congressional leaders in November 2005 is unsubstantiated, to put it charitably.
> 
> We judge that the odds that the report is accurate hover near zero. It comes from Capitol Hill Blue, a Web site that has a history of relying on phony sources, retracting stories and apologizing to its readers.
> 
> Update, Feb. 21, 2011: The author of the Capitol Hill Blue story has now withdrawn it.
> huntin1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Bush caught Lying multiple times..right here on Video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sulDYYA ... re=related

And Mr Sigarms......'Unsubstantiated' does not mean it is false as you state, wrongly.
3 eyewitnesses and an independent News Agency in DC reported it. I believe it to be true. 
Bush helped TO destroy Our Constitution with His Patriot Act. I judge him by His ACTIONS as well as his words.

Catch the video of Bush mocking our dead soldiers, above. 
I take it, you believe video is accurate enough? Keep defending if you wish. Ive got alot more.


----------



## huntin1

Please reread my post above and concentrate on the last line of the quote from factcheck. I know that it is not in keeping with your hate Bush mantra, but the story hs been retracted. That normally means that it is false. At least it does in my world.

I'm sure you have lots of anti Bush propaganda, conspiracy theorists usually do.

Huntin1


----------



## Plainsman

BT it appears you are driven by hate for Bush and Jewish people. One can always find bs on the internet to make you think your right.

Here is a thought that has been running through my head. After the first Gulf War we encouraged Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam. Then we left them hanging. Just like we did the Kurds. Like you I think that is a complete lack of integrity. I think that is why there is so little trust in the United States and people dislike us. If you remember it was the liberals that put the pressure on Bush not to go any further into Iraq. He folded, as did Colin Powell who really was liberal himself.

So who should we abandon next, Britain, France, Germany, all the NATO allies? You do understand that we are sworn allies of Israel right? Yet you want to abandon them just like we did the Kurds. How does that make you any better? I say we stick with our friends, but I think countries like the NATO nations need to carry their own cost of defense. If we are stationed there then they should pay for it.

BT no one has respected our troops more than Bush has. If you notice it's the liberals who disrespect not only our troops but law enforcement. I have an acquaintance who has a friend who spent a year on presidential detail with the secret service. He had some interesting things to say about president families. To make it short both Bushes respected them. The Clintons had no respect for them. Only lately have the liberals started to pretend they respect the military men and women.


----------



## ShineRunner




----------



## Gunny

Comrade Bill said: "Defend away."

Hard to defend against your looney thought process. No matter what is "proven" by anyone, you and your ilk will not budge from your leftist conspiracy theories.

_"Israel killed 34 US Sailors and wounded 170, including a friend of mine in a deliberate attack of the USS Liberty in 1967"._

Agreed. Congrats on bringing something of fact to this "Obama Presidency" thred. Albeit Still not on topic as per your love for your Supreme Leader Obama.

But then there is this: _"It was covered up, No investigation has ever been done". _

However if it were covered up, and no investigation has ever been done, then why did Isreal take the blame and then pay us millions in restitution. (Not that it even begins to help the greaving families and friends.) 
_In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to the Liberty itself plus 13 years' interest._

_"Are the lives of US Servicement a joke to you"? _
No. I cherish the lives of each and every one of the fine men and women that knowingly go to battle to defend me and the American way way of life. Do I want them back on our soil? You bet your foil hat I do. But as of now our President (you know the one that you still haven't discussed in this thred about the current President of the USA...Mr. Libertarian) has continued the idea that this is our duty to help those in need. (personally I would LOVE to see our troops return to help OUR citizens rebuild.) Yet you still have not givin us your thoughts on him and his extreamly NON-Libertarian stance. Just more hatred for Bush (Liberal viewpoint) and those rotten Jews (Anti-Semitic viewpoint). At this point the only "Joke" as I see it is your rhetoric claiming you are anything but leftist.


----------



## Gunny

Pretty sure I know who you were voting for...


----------



## spentwings

Yeah,,, there's the Liberty Incident,,,Gulf of Tonkin Incident,,,Pueblo Incident,,,and the list is ad infinitum. BTL,,,BillThomas,,,you're just another Obama pubic louse. uke:

I can sum up Barrack An Bill's love for a America with the book _Custer Died for Your Sins: An Indian Manifesto _


----------



## Plainsman

My thought today is that we are in real trouble. After yesterdays SCOTUS decision Obama attacked Arizona again. Recently he has begin to take the role of dictator through executive order. Just a few months to go, if we can make it.


----------



## spentwings

Plainsman said:


> My thought today is that we are in real trouble. After yesterdays SCOTUS decision Obama attacked Arizona again. Recently he has begin to take the role of dictator through executive order. Just a few months to go, if we can make it.


Calm yourself Plains. :beer: 
Obama will go down as the worst President in American history.
In fact,,,3 bars below Jimmy.
Michelle is a July 5 day old deer kill,,,Barrack is her smell.


----------



## Gunny




----------



## BillThomas

Gunny said:


> However if it were covered up, and no investigation has ever been done, then why did Isreal take the blame and then pay us millions in restitution. (Not that it even begins to help the greaving families and friends.)
> _In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to the Liberty itself plus 13 years' interest._.


*There has NEVER been a congressional investigation on Israels Attack of the USS LIBERTY.

There has NEVER been a single Liberty sailor questioned by congress or anybody else in a formal investigation.
*Even in this, evidence was changed, and officers and crew who knew the answers were not asked the right questions and were told to shut up when they offered information.
Israel takes $30 Million per day as Welfare from the USA, $3 million to the USA and US Sailors it paid out ( OUR Money) was a joke and insult.
Isreal shouldve been wirped off the map that day, it committed an act of war and war crimes by attacking US Sailors and strifing their rafts.



> i]"Are the lives of US Servicement a joke to you"? [/i]
> No. I cherish the lives of each and every one of the fine men and women that knowingly go to battle to defend me and the American way way of life. Do I want them back on our soil? You bet your foil hat I do. But as of now our President (you know the one that you still haven't discussed in this thred about the current President of the USA...Mr. Libertarian) has continued the idea that this is our duty to help those in need. (personally I would LOVE to see our troops return to help OUR citizens rebuild.) Yet you still have not givin us your thoughts on him and his extreamly NON-Libertarian stance.


Obama is a disaster, But not much worse than Bush. His views on Illegals, Israel, War, Spending are quite the same.



> Just more hatred for Bush (Liberal viewpoint) and those rotten Jews (Anti-Semitic viewpoint)
> . At this point the only "Joke" as I see it is your rhetoric claiming you are anything but leftist.


Bush was arguably one of the Worst Presidents America ever had.
He didnt Veto 1 Spendig Bill, Favored Illegal Immigration and Lied us into 2 wars.
In addiion he presided over the worst attack on American Soil. Or some say, was behind it.
And youre clearly Anti Gentile. I dont give a Damn about Israel. 
There is Only Room for ONE Loyalty in this country, Not two.
Im an American. Not Israeli.

Nice try, Gunny. Carry On.


----------



## huntin1

Bush is far from the worst President we've had. I used to think that distinction went to Carter, but then along comes Obama. Of course, neither JFK or Clinton were stellar examples either.

You have the hate thing real bad for GWB there BT. I'm betting that you keep a towel next to your computer when you visit sites like this. You know, to wipe the spittle from your screen so you can see to post.

huntin1


----------



## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> Bush is far from the worst President we've had. I used to think that distinction went to Carter, but then along comes Obama. Of course, neither JFK or Clinton were stellar examples either.
> 
> You have the hate thing real bad for GWB there BT. I'm betting that you keep a towel next to your computer when you visit sites like this. You know, to wipe the spittle from your screen so you can see to post.
> huntin1


Bush is Top 3 Worst Presidents America has had.

Bushs treasonous Patriot Act, His Refusal to Veto 1 Spending Bill, Lying us into War(s), His support of Bankster Bailouts and his presiding over the Housing and economic crash, all evidence this fact. 
Same goes with his support of Greenspan and Bernanke.

Carter inherited Inflation due to Fed Chairman Milton Freedman taking us off of the Gold Standard, and OPECs embargo due to our meddling in Israels 1973 Yom Kippur war, resulting in Oil going from $3 to $30 a barrel x 20 million barrels per day = $20+ Trillion per year 'subsidy' to play bully/ worlds policeman in the Middle East.

Carter is a nuclear physicist and a brilliant man, but had a stacked deck upon entering office.
His efforts at peace have been noteable and are noteworthy.

The towel I keep by the screen is to use after reading posts such as yours, that hardly resemble a coherant thought.

The main teacher of the American Economy is Israeli dual citizen Alan Greenspan who promoted free market and reagan enomics policies , his new idea was that debt is a good thing he encouraged home owners to borrow on they homes, he said every home owner was like a banker, they could borrow using their homes as collatrual, introduced low interest rates at 1-5 % to use as a bait to entrap people into a circle of debt and misery,he said banking regulations should be relaxed for banks this enabled banks to commit fruad and gamble with depositers money - ponzi schems. 
These people are responsible for the upcoming depression around the world.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> Lying us into War(s)


I am sure when the two planes crashed on US soil had nothing to do with that....or the people wanting swift action also had nothing to do with that as well.



> His support of Bankster Bailouts and his presiding over the Housing and economic crash,


I know i am talking to a cement wall because you are not listening one bit to the facts...yes facts on this. But the housing crash was set in motion years before bush took office. With the clinton administration and the congress at that time loosening the loan standards and practices. They wanted everyone to own a home. So banks, goverment programs, goverment lending institutions, etc. All went full steam ahead and made it that anyone could get a loan. The FHA loosened its principles on what homes it would accept. Along with what it took to get a loan. Then Wall Street took advantage and packaged paper like you have stated. Because why wouldn't they. Home rose in value at 50% a year in some area's. You know why.....because anyone could get a loan. People with 500 credit scores got loans......they got them thru goverment backed loans. People got grants thru goverment programs. They got 0% down loans....they got 103% financed loans.....they got home equity loans after owning the home less than a year!

Then the bank bail outs..... Who was bush listening too.... Congress. Who was in control of Congress????

But again... I know this won't sink in one bit.


----------



## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> I am sure when the two planes crashed on US soil had nothing to do with that....or the people wanting swift action also had nothing to do with that as well.


 Newsflash. 
Iraq had NOTHING to do with 911, contrary to Bush/Neo CONs early jump to conclusions.

*"No, we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with September the 11th,"
-George Bush 9-18-2003

'Iraq did not have the weapons our intelligence believed were there.' 
-Bush 10/7/2004 *



> I know i am talking to a cement wall because you are not listening one bit to the facts...yes facts on this. But the housing crash was set in motion years before bush took office.


The Housing Crash happened under Bush & Greenspan Not Clinton, Credit was loosened to allow it to happen, Banks made trillions, and not 1 Banker has gone to jail.



> With the clinton administration and the congress at that time loosening the loan standards and practices. They wanted everyone to own a home.


 No Subprime Loans existed during Clintons tenure. NONE!
Credit was tough to obtain. Repeal of Glass Steagall later allowed it, with a little 'help' from the Fed Reserve and Wall Street.



> So banks, goverment programs, goverment lending institutions, etc. All went full steam ahead and made it that anyone could get a loan. The FHA loosened its principles on what homes it would accept. Along with what it took to get a loan. Then Wall Street took advantage and packaged paper like you have stated. Because why wouldn't they. Home rose in value at 50% a year in some area's. You know why.....because anyone could get a loan.


 They created a Bubble, they burst the bubble.
FHA loosened nothing, they actually made it more difficult to obtain a loan...Automated underwriting in addition to a manual underwriter, and they also imposed credit scoring where they never had any, in its history. You really dont klnow what youre talking about and it shows.



> People with 500 credit scores got loans......they got them thru goverment backed loans. People got grants thru goverment programs. They got 0% down loans....they got 103% financed loans.....they got home equity loans after owning the home less than a year


 No they didnt.
The minimum score I saw was 580, then 560 for a short time, and the credit was reviewed, some times folks with decent credit had bad scores due to outstanding amount of credit, too many recent pulls etc special consideration was given , but the score itself wasnt a guarantee of approval.
No Govt backed loan got approved through VA, FDA or FHA. Underwriting for these loans remained, and remians strict. Always has.

Down Payment wasnt the issue either...the ECONOMY is! 
People cant make payments if their job is moved overseas.
1 in 3 Jobs left (Offshored) under Bush.



> Then the bank bail outs..... Who was bush listening too.... Congress. Who was in control of Congress????


Every Republican with the exception of Ron Paul voted FOR the Bailouts, as did your 'Republican' President..


----------



## Chuck Smith

YOU ARE STILL NOT GETTING IT.....Laws were passed during the Clinton Tenure that did not take until bush was in office. So yes under bush's tenure these things happened. But it was legislation purposed, written, accepted, signed, etc by CLINTON and his administration.

Just like the Health Care bill that just got up held. The debt it will impose on our nation in 2014. Who will be credited for that? Can you answer me that?


----------



## Gunny

Comrade Bill said: _"And youre clearly Anti Gentile"._

Again you got me. I do hate myself, my family, and most of my friends and fellow countrymen. How did you guess... :eyeroll:

I can only assume you were picked on by a few Orthodox Jews in your "prime". Sorry to here that... Must have been rough. You say there was no investigation. Why would there be a need if Isreal took blame? To prove them right? Interesting point of view. Wouldn't that be similar to you wanting me to investigate weather or not you crapped your pants after you already admitted you crapped your pants? Seems a little redundant don't you think?

_"Isreal shouldve been wirped off the map that day"_

It must be hot in your Iranian bungalow for you to get this worked up. Now you call for mass genocide? I know of a few people that have had those "feelings".

-Robert Mugabe (Zimbabwe, 1982-87, Ndebele minority) slaughtered 20,000
-Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89) slaughtered 20,000
-Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000) slaughtered 25,000
-Vladimir Ilich Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) slaughtered 30,000 
-Slobodan Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-99) slaughtered 100,000 
-Ho Chi Min (Vietnam, 1953-56) Slaughtered 200,000
-Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Libya, 1934-45; Yugoslavia, WWII) slaughtered 300,000 
-Mullah Omar - Taliban (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) slaughtered 400,000
-Saddam Hussein (Iran 1980-1990 and Kurdistan 1987-88) slaughtered 600,000 
-Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) slaughtered 1.6 million
-Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) slaughtered 1,700,000 
-Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) slaughtered 5,000,000
-Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1932-39) slaughtered 6,000,000
-Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) slaughtered 12,000,000
-Mao Ze-Dong (China, 1958-61 and 1966-69, Tibet 1949-50) slaughtered 49-78,000,000

-And now you advocate the slaughter (in your own words: _"Isreal shouldve been wirped off the map that day"_)

of an estimated 2,745,000 (Isreals population in 1967) mostly Jews ( FYI,... Not everybody that lives in Isreal is Jewish...) of which a majority were civilians and had no knowledge of said attacks? Congrats! That puts you just ahead of Pol Pot. 
That said, you have a ways to go to get to your guy Comrade Stalin.

Wouldn't your Mommy be proud...

I would tell you to carry on, however your seething hatred of all things not in your "wheel house" has me worried you may want to eat the face off of a homless Jew.

Gunny


----------



## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> YOU ARE STILL NOT GETTING IT.....Laws were passed during the Clinton Tenure that did not take until bush was in office. So yes under bush's tenure these things happened. But it was legislation purposed, written, accepted, signed, etc by CLINTON and his administration.
> 
> Just like the Health Care bill that just got up held. The debt it will impose on our nation in 2014. Who will be credited for that? Can you answer me that?


I have insisted that America has a 1 Party system, just two wings of the same party...

Legislation itself didnt cause the housing crisis. Lack of oversight, Loose Credit created BY the ederal Reserve as well as an outlet for these illegal securities and derivatives made it happen.

Bush promoted the Founder of the Subprime Mortgage, Billionaire Roland Arnall, to Ambassador to the Netherlands.
He was a Holocaust survivor so he probably deserved it though.

Our Health Care System is awful...thats all I can comment on.
1 in 3 bankruptcies is caused by medical reasons, that a travesty. 
Thank Lawyers, Drug Lobbyists, Big Pharma, Big Medicine, Insurance companies and the puppets that control these strings.


----------



## BillThomas

Gunny said:


> You say there was no investigation. Why would there be a need if Isreal took blame? To prove them right? Interesting point of view. Wouldn't that be similar to you wanting me to investigate weather or not you crapped your pants after you already admitted you crapped your pants? Seems a little redundant don't you think?


Israel called it an 'Accident' They took blame for an accident.
It wasnt an accident though.
They attacked the USS LIBERTY in unmarked Planes (War crime) Stars of David removed.
They also shot the life rafts of the US Sailors(War Crime) so there would be no witesses.



> It must be hot in your Iranian bungalow for you to get this worked up. Now you call for mass genocide? I know of a few people that have had those "feelings".


 From an Israeli News paper.. Ironic no?

*We mustn't forget that some of Greatest Murderers of modern times were Jews*
Stalin's Jews, YNET News Israel-Sever Plocker 
Genrikh Yagoda," the greatest Jewish murderer of the 20th Century, was GPU's deputy commander and founder of the NKVD. Yagoda is responsible for the deaths of at least 10 million people. His Jewish deputies established the Gulag system. 
Many Jews sold their soul to the devil of the Communist revolution and have blood on their hands for eternity."



> I would tell you to carry on, however your seething hatred of all things not in your "wheel house" has me worried you may want to eat the face off of a homless Jew.


I just hate injustice, and never had a taste for flesh.

Carry On, Gunny


----------



## Chuck Smith

BT... you are blaming bush....

What do you think about Obama raising the debt ceiling? Lets hear your thoughts.....or is it Israels and bush's fault on this one too.

How about the health care bill that has no real way to pay for itself? Israels, greenspan, bush's fault too?

Yes the CBO has come out and said it can't full pay for itself like it was boasted by those who pushed it through.


----------



## Gunny

And before I forget. If you advocate the distruction of Isreal due to...

and I quote _"it committed an act of war and war crimes by attacking US Sailors and strifing their rafts"._

Then you must be fine with the war in Afghanistan. As it was an act of war that killed nearly 3,000 US civies, admittedly commited by a terrorist group having set up shop in that country.

It must be loud in your head with the internal struggle of claiming to represent Ron Paul, but then condoning war overseas.

Am I close Mr. Libertarian?


----------



## Chuck Smith

> Newsflash.
> Iraq had NOTHING to do with 911, contrary to Bush/Neo CONs early jump to conclusions.


YOu mentioned wars.....so the war in Afaghanistan is obviously one you were pointing at. T


----------



## BillThomas

Gunny said:


> And before I forget. If you advocate the distruction of Isreal due to...
> 
> and I quote _"it committed an act of war and war crimes by attacking US Sailors and strifing their rafts"._
> 
> Then you must be fine with the war in Afghanistan. As it was an act of war that killed nearly 3,000 US civies, admittedly commited by a terrorist group having set up shop in that country.
> 
> It must be loud in your head with the internal struggle of claiming to represent Ron Paul, but then condoning war overseas.
> 
> Am I close Mr. Libertarian?


Not 1 Afgani was involved in 911. Bin Laden was Saudi. 
Interesting that we never invaded Saudi. A US/Israeli Puppet.

Afganistan is a disaster, we control less ground now than in 2003.
We are there simply trying to secure a pipeline through the Caucus mountains and theres lots of opium for drug companies.










War is about Money, always has been,. always will be


----------



## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> Newsflash.
> Iraq had NOTHING to do with 911, contrary to Bush/Neo CONs early jump to conclusions.
> 
> 
> 
> YOu mentioned wars.....so the war in Afaghanistan is obviously one you were pointing at. T
Click to expand...

See Map I posted on Afganistan.
Also a recent News Headline. Maye you missed it?

*Kirkuk To Haifa Pipeline: Reason for the War? *
April 20, 2003, The Observer, Steven Scheer

LONDON (Reuters)-Benjamin Netanyahu said he expected an Oil Pipeline from Iraq To Israel to be Reopened in the near future after being closed when Israel became a state in 1948.
"It won't be﻿ long when you will see Iraqi oil flowing to Haifa, Netanyahu told a group of British investors, declining to give a﻿ timetable. It is just a matter of time until Iraqi oil will flow."


----------



## Gunny

From an Israeli News paper.. Ironic no?

What is from an Israeli news paper? You seem to be confused. I quoted no newspappers.

Remind me where he was hideing out? Remind me where his terrorist group organized and trained? Remind me weather or not the Afghans allowed us to enter their country to take them out.

Keep reading your Communist Manifesto Comrade.

It is quite entertaning.

Carry on,

Gunny


----------



## Chuck Smith

> Legislation itself didnt cause the housing crisis. Lack of oversight, Loose Credit created BY the Federal Reserve as well as an outlet for these illegal securities and derivatives made it happen.


So legislation was apart of it? Who passed that legislation that started it all??? Not bush.

Lack of oversight? Who controls or regulates commerce???? Goverment.....who was in control of the house and senate? Not Bush

Again I have never said bush was a great president at all. But to blame him for everything is wrong as well. I have said it over and over......the house and senate is where the real battle and change needs to happen. The corruption and problem is there. The president is just a puppet of Congress.


----------



## BillThomas

Gunny said:


> From an Israeli News paper.. Ironic no?
> 
> What is from an Israeli news paper? You seem to be confused. I quoted no newspappers.
> 
> Remind me where he was hideing out? Remind me where his terrorist group organized and trained? Remind me weather or not the Afghans allowed us to enter their country to take them out.
> 
> Keep reading your Communist Manifesto Comrade.
> 
> It is quite entertaning.
> 
> Carry on,
> 
> Gunny


You ask What? 
The article I posted of the worlds greatest Killer...a Russian Communist with a background very non gentile.
Kharzai is a Puppet, no ruler allows any nation to enter their country and Occupy it. 
Many have tried with Afganistan...England for 80+ years and we all know how well that ended .

I read the Communist Manifest to understand my enemy..I also recommend Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitzyn.


----------



## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> Legislation itself didnt cause the housing crisis. Lack of oversight, Loose Credit created BY the Federal Reserve as well as an outlet for these illegal securities and derivatives made it happen.
> 
> 
> 
> So legislation was apart of it? Who passed that legislation that started it all??? Not bush.
> 
> Lack of oversight? Who controls or regulates commerce???? Goverment.....who was in control of the house and senate? Not Bush
> 
> Again I have never said bush was a great president at all. But to blame him for everything is wrong as well. I have said it over and over......the house and senate is where the real battle and change needs to happen. The corruption and problem is there. The president is just a puppet of Congress.
Click to expand...

"Allow me to control a Nations currency, and I care Not who makes its laws."
-Rothschild

As far as the Israeli issue....
Considering we are broke at home, maybe its time to revist this issue of welfare for a nation running a budget surplus, the size of NJ, with a few million people that is hated the world over for its occupations, land thefts and trechery (Like US Spying), not to mention maintaining an entire Naval Fleet (Billions) in the Med to protect dear, old Israel..

*The Cost Of "Occupied" Israel To The American People *
By Richard Curtiss

By now many Americans are aware that Israel, with a population of only 5.8 million people, is the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid, and that Israel's aid plus U.S. aid to Egypt's 65 million people for keeping the peace with Israel has, for many years, consumed more than half of the U.S. bi-lateral foreign aid budget world-wide.

What few Americans understand however, is the steep price they pay in many other fields for the U.S.-Israeli relationship, which in turn is a product of the influence of Israel's powerful U.S. lobby on American domestic politics and has nothing to do with U.S. strategic interests, U.S. national interests, or even with traditional American support for self-determination, human rights, and fair play overseas.

Besides its financial cost, unwavering U.S. support for Israel, whether it's right or wrong, exacts a huge price in American prestige and credibility overseas. Further, Israel's powerful U.S. lobby has been a major factor in delaying campaign finance reform, and also in the removal from American political life of some of our most distinguished public servants, members of Congress and even presidents.

Finally, the Israel-U.S. relationship has cost a significant number of American lives. The incidents in which hundreds of U.S. service personnel, diplomats, and civilians have been killed in the Middle East have been reported in the media. But the media seldom revisits these events, and scrupulously avoids analyzing why they occurred or compiling the cumulative toll of American deaths resulting from our Israel-centered Middle East policies.

Each of these four categories of the costs of Israel to the American people merits a talk of its own. What follows,therefore, is just an overview of such losses.

First is the financial cost of Israel to U.S. taxpayers. Between 1949 and 1998, the U.S. gave to Israel, with a self-declared population of 5.8 million people, more foreign aid than it gave to all of the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, all of the countries of Latin America, and all of the countries of the Caribbean combined - with a total population of 1,054,000,000 people.

In the 1997 fiscal year, for example, Israel received $3 billion from the foreign aid budget, at least $525 million from other U.S. budgets, and $2 billion in federal loan guarantees. So the 1997 total of U.S. grants and loan guarantees to Israel was $5.5 billion. That's $15,068,493 per day, 365 days a year. [See: The Finest Senate Money Can Buy ]

If you add its foreign aid grants and loans, plus the approximate totals of grants to Israel from other parts of the U.S. federal budget, Israel has received since 1949 a grand total of $84.8 billion, excluding the $10 billion in U.S. government loan guarantees it has drawn to date.

And if you calculate what the U.S. has had to pay in interest to borrow this money to give to Israel, the cost of Israel to U.S. taxpayers rises to $134.8 billion, not adjusted for inflation.

Put another way, the nearly $14,630 every one of 5.8 million Israelis had received from the U.S. government by October 31, 1997, cost American taxpayers $23,241 per Israeli. That's $116,205 for every Israeli family of five.

None of these figures include the private donations by Americans to Israeli charities, which initially constituted about one quarter of Israel's budget, and today approach $1 billion annually. In addition to the negative effect of these donations on the U.S. balance of payments, the donors also deduct them from their U.S. income taxes, creating another large drain on the U.S. treasury.

Nor do the figures above include any of the indirect financial costs of Israel to the United States, which cannot be tallied. One example is the cost to U.S. manufacturers of the Arab boycott, surely in the billions of dollars by now. Another example is the cost to U.S. consumers of the price of petroleum, which surged to such heights that it set off a world-wide recession during the Arab oil boycott imposed in reaction to U.S. support of Israel in the 1973 war.

Other examples are a portion of the costs of maintaining large U.S. Sixth Fleet naval forces in the Mediterranean, primarily to protect Israel, and military air units at the Aviano base in Italy, not to mention the staggering costs of frequent deployments to the Arabian Peninsula and Gulf area of land and air forces from the United States and naval units from the Seventh Fleet, which normally operates in the Pacific Ocean.

Many years ago the late Undersecretary of State George Ball estimated the true financial cost of Israel to the United States at $11 billion a year. Since then direct U.S. foreign aid to Israel has nearly doubled, and simply adjusting that original figure into 1998 dollars would send it considerably higher today.

Next comes the cost of Israel to the international prestige and credibility of the United States. Americans seem constantly astounded at our foreign policy failures in the Middle East. This stems from a profound ignorance of the background of the Israeli-Palestinian dispute, which in turn results from a reluctance by the mainstream U.S. media to present these facts objectively.


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## Chuck Smith

Why not hate China? The hold lots of the Loans our goverment keeps making.


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## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> Why not hate China? The hold lots of the Loans our goverment keeps making.


Wrong, Chuck.

China holds many of our T REASURY BILLs auctioned off as debt, or did, (we now have monetized the debt, buyng our own money, causing inflation.)

Most loans are sold to Pension funds, investment firms and groups etc.

The occasional sovereign nation doesnt invest in them, but buys T Bills, and now GOLD, as we cant print any more of it.


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## huntin1

*I* don't have a coherent thought? Jeez, go back and read most of your posts objectively. Full of incoherent and bizarre BS. Do a bit of real research, away from the conspiracy theorist sites and without your blinders.

You are so full of hate for Bush that you cannot even accept that he may not have been as bad as you seem to think. I am not saying that he was a great President, but he was way better than what we have now. And I can't believe I see Carter and brilliant in the same sentence. That alone is so out of touch with reality that it makes me think you need medication.

Huntin1


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## Chuck Smith

The US goverment owes China $$$.....isn't that the same as a loan? A t-bill is a type of loan.....ie: you give me X amount of money and I will pay it back with some interest.

But I guess your hate for Israel and Bush put the blinders on you.


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## BillThomas

Chuck Smith said:


> The US goverment owes China $$$.....isn't that the same as a loan? A t-bill is a type of loan.....ie: you give me X amount of money and I will pay it back with some interest.
> 
> But I guess your hate for Israel and Bush put the blinders on you.


You reference a mortgage loan when its not.
It is a BOND, debt money that China holds. Quite different from a mortgage. 
At least with a mortgage there is collateral pledged.
With Loan debt, there is not. Surely you know this Chuck, or am I dealing with a 2digit IQ holder?

Oil was $3 a barrel in 1973, before we decided to 'intervene' in Middle East affair (Yom Kippur War) and save Israel from defeat, rather than Darwinism playing its course.
Overnight, Oil went to $33, costing us $600 Billion per year in this subsidy to our little buddy aka Israel.
Id rather Oil be $3 a barrel and Israel be wiped off the map than $80-100 a barrel everytime Israel threatens a neighbor.
It is a pariah.


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> *I* don't have a coherent thought? Jeez, go back and read most of your posts objectively. Full of incoherent and bizarre BS. Do a bit of real research, away from the conspiracy theorist sites and without your blinders.
> 
> You are so full of hate for Bush that you cannot even accept that he may not have been as bad as you seem to think. I am not saying that he was a great President, but he was way better than what we have now. And I can't believe I see Carter and brilliant in the same sentence. That alone is so out of touch with reality that it makes me think you need medication.
> 
> Huntin1


Carter was/is a Nuclear Physicist.

Bush was a Cheerleader (Some say bisexual), ran multiple failed businesses, never served opted for Air Guard during war time, and was C student even with daddys (head of the Satanic CIA) help.

Bush was probably worse than I imagine. I put him at 2nd worst behind Lincoln.


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## huntin1

> Jimmy Carter (James Earl Carter Jr.), 39th president of the United States, was born Oct. 1, 1924, in the small farming town of Plains, Ga., and grew up in the nearby community of Archery. His father, James Earl Carter Sr., was a farmer and businessman and his mother, Lillian Gordy Carter, a registered nurse.
> 
> He was educated in the public school of Plains, attended Georgia Southwestern College and the Georgia Institute of Technology, and received a Bachelor of Science degree from the United States Naval Academy in 1946. In the Navy, he became a submariner, serving in both the Atlantic and Pacific fleets and rising to the rank of lieutenant. Chosen by Admiral Hyman Rickover for the nuclear submarine program, he was assigned to Schenectady, N.Y., where he took graduate work at Union College in reactor technology and nuclear physics, and served as senior officer of the pre-commissioning crew of the Seawolf, the second nuclear submarine.


From here: http://www.cartercenter.org/news/expert ... arter.html

No mention of a degree, just that he did course work while in the Navy. I can find no mention anywhere that he has received a degree in, and is entitled to, the title of nuclear pyhsicist. My BA degree is in Criminology and Business, but hey, I also did course work in psychology. Do I get to call myself a pyschologist? Come to think of it, I also did course work in Sociology, Biology Literature.................getting the idea yet?



> Initially, W's prospects of living up to his illustrious pedigree were dim. Possibly hobbled by dyslexia (a condition little understood and seldom treated during his childhood), Bush proved an uninspired student in high school. He did maintain a gentlemanly "C+" average at Yale and acquired a Masters of Business Administration degree from Harvard Business School, but until he turned 40, he seemed to be floundering. He admittedly had a drinking problem in his youth, but a late marriage to Laura Welch helped stabilize him. His rebirth as a believing Christian (he is a Methodist whereas his parents were Episcopalian) in 1986 helped put him on the straight and narrow path that led him to the Presidency.
> 
> Bush has been discounted many times in his life and career for being wooden and unintelligent due to his fractured speaking style, but in fact, his academic performance was on par if not slightly better than that of his better-spoken, fellow Yalie John Kerry. As Bush's test scores and subsequent achievements suggest an above average intelligence, it is appropriate to believe that he likely has benefited from other's underestimation of his gifts. This was apparent in the first televised debate with Al Gore in 2000, when Bush held his own against the condescending vice president, and in doing so, triumphed in the eyes of the political handicappers............
> 
> Using his father's Saudi connections, Bush Jr. became a millionaire twice over through Middle Eastern oil projects. His most notable achievement in private life was in becoming president and chief operating partner of the Texas Rangers professional baseball team, which was financially invigorated by the building of a new stadium with taxpayers' funds. For a man whose greatest ambition was not the presidency but to be baseball commissioner, the "job" of Rangers owner suited him just fine, and his stint as the amiable owner of the team helped generate good publicity that wiped out his past image as a playboy. When he cashed out his ownership stake, Bush had a $14 million profit. More importantly, ownership of the Rangers positioned him financially and in the public eye for a successful run for the governorship of Texas, which proved to be his springboard to the presidency.


From here: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0124133/bio

So GWB *earned* his MBA and you call him a cheerleader? 
Not quite sure how earning "millions" of dollars equates to "failed business attempts" perhaps you and I have a different view of what successful is.

You, my friend are seriously delusional. I'd suggest help, but I'm sure that you are just going to continue with the hate Bush mantra.

huntin1


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## Plainsman

Bill this is 2012 and Bush isn't president. What do you think about Obama? Not every thread is about Bush or Israel.

Out of curiosity and if you don't mind, did you vote for Obama last election?


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> No mention of a degree, just that he did course work while in the Navy. I can find no mention anywhere that he has received a degree in, and is entitled to, the title of nuclear pyhsicist. My BA degree is in Criminology and Business, but hey, I also did course work in psychology. Do I get to call myself a pyschologist? Come to think of it, I also did course work in Sociology, Biology Literature.................getting the idea yet?


He was a nuclear engineer 1 year at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta then he went on to military. 
He served 7 years in the Navy.
Chosen by Admiral Hyman Rickover for the nuclear submarine program, he was assigned to Schenectady, N.Y., where he took graduate work at Union College in reactor technology and nuclear physics, and served as senior officer of the pre-commissioning crew of the Seawolf.

GIT (Ga. Inst. Of Technoloy, followed by a career as a Naval Officer on a nuclear Submarine where Jimmy Carter put his skills to use, entrusted By the US Navy with a very expensive ship.
That is his background, he IS a nuclear physicist.

'Significant foreign policy accomplishments of his administration included the Panama Canal treaties, the Camp David Accords, the treaty of peace between Egypt and Israel, the SALT II treaty with the Soviet Union, and the establishment of U.S. diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China.'

Walter Cronkite has said that of all the presidents he has known, Jimmy Carter was the smartest man to sit in the Oval Office.



> Initially, W's prospects of living up to his illustrious pedigree were dim. Possibly hobbled by dyslexia (a condition little understood and seldom treated during his childhood), Bush proved an uninspired student in high school. He did maintain a gentlemanly "C+" average at Yale and acquired a Masters of Business Administration degree from Harvard Business School, but until he turned 40, he seemed to be floundering.
> He admittedly had a drinking problem in his youth, but a late marriage to Laura Welch helped stabilize him.


Laura Bush Killed a boy while DUI as a teenager, it was a buried story, she got NO time, Ran through a stop sign.



> So GWB *earned* his MBA and you call him a cheerleader?


Bush bought his Masters, he didnt earn it. C Student his entire life. 
Most Male Cheerleaders I knew were Gay or bisexual. Here is your boy.









Bush supposed love interest, Male Escort Jeff Gannon, also a reporter that slept over at the White House 39 Times.











> Not quite sure how earning "millions" of dollars equates to "failed business attempts" perhaps you and I have a different view of what successful is.


He couldnt do anything right until daddy stepped in and had his Saudi buddies bail him out.


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## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> Bill this is 2012 and Bush isn't president. What do you think about Obama? Not every thread is about Bush or Israel.
> 
> Out of curiosity and if you don't mind, did you vote for Obama last election?


For the 2nd time, I voted For Dr. Ron Paul.


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## huntin1

Yeah, I shoulda known better. How about this, you're right.

There, you won your internet arguement, feel better now? :roll:

huntin1


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> Yeah, I shoulda known better. How about this, you're right.
> 
> There, you won your internet arguement, feel better now? :roll:
> 
> huntin1


I cant believe that you didnt know Bush was a Cheerleader.....its only the truth. Fox News must not have reported it.


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## huntin1

Yes, I know he was a cheerleader, in high school and college both. So what? He was also the president of the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity and a member of the Skull and Bones society and he played rugby, football and baseball.

It doesn't matter who you are, you don't buy an MBA from Harvard. In fact, you don't buy a Masters degree from any accredited university.

I am done with this.


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## BillThomas

huntin1 said:


> Yes, I know he was a cheerleader, in high school and college both. So what? He was also the president of the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity and a member of the Skull and Bones society and he played rugby, football and baseball.
> 
> It doesn't matter who you are, you don't buy an MBA from Harvard. In fact, you don't buy a Masters degree from any accredited university.
> 
> I am done with this.


Skull N Bones is a Satanic Ritual Club, I wont discuss what goes on there.
He was best known for his C average, partying, and being a Cheerleader.



> George never made honor roll even one term, unlike 110 boys in his class.
> His College Board scores (leaked by some current Yale students and reprinted in The New Yorker) were 566 for the verbal part and 640 for math.
> Those were far below the median scores for students admitted to his class, as published in his Yale class's 25th reunion book: 668 verbal and 718 math.
> So if his father and grandfather had not been stars at Yale, and his grandfather had not been a Yale trustee, George almost certainly would have ended up at the University of Texas.


A Priviledged spoiled kid, he avoided war and became a Chickenhawk, jut like 7 time Vietnam Deferrment chicken Dick Cheney.
Doesnt hurt that your dad was Head of the Unconstitutional CIA either..


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## spentwings

Yeah the cowards!
So share your military record with us BT!!! :beer:


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## ShineRunner

Subject: Your thoughts on president obama?

Seems like this thread has been completely highjacked :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :******: :shake:


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## Plainsman

ShineRunner said:


> Subject: Your thoughts on president obama?
> 
> Seems like this thread has been completely highjacked :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :ticked: :shake:


Hmmm do you suppose that was the purpose? Hate Bush sure sounds liberal to me. :wink:


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## BillThomas

spentwings said:


> Yeah the cowards!
> So share your military record with us BT!!! :beer:


I have no interest serving with Homosexuals, Gang Bangers and Green card fighting illegals serving a globalist NWO agenda.

I side with the Founding Fathers and support my local militia.

What were your thoughts of the Military disarming law abiding residents of New Orleans, during Katrina?


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## Plainsman

> What were your thoughts of the Military disarming law abiding residents of New Orleans, during Katrina?


Treason, tyranny, against the constitution.

You are certainly mislabelling our military men and women. You have the freedom to say what you wish because of them. Many died for your freedom. They paid the price for you.


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## Gunny

How 'bout the fact that Obama is spending your money on unnecessary government programs?

Huh Mr. *LIB*ertarian?

How 'bout the fact that Obama is continually breaking your "*LIB*ertarian" door down with new unnecessary government programs?

Huh Mr. *LIB*ertarian?

I give you credit that your "fishing" expo has gotten you to 3 pages. Just keeping enough slack in the line with statements like:
_" I side with the Founding Fathers and support my local militia"._

I don't buy the refuse you are spewing. Hijacking this thred like the Left Wing Political Terrorist you are.

And to think...

I sleep under the same Flag as you... :eyeroll:


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## BillThomas

Plainsman said:


> What were your thoughts of the Military disarming law abiding residents of New Orleans, during Katrina?
> 
> 
> 
> Treason, tyranny, against the constitution.
> You are certainly mislabelling our military men and women..
Click to expand...

How am I mislabeling them? Some took part in Disarming our fellow citizens and law abiding residents of New Orleans.
Now they take part in enforcing UN resolutions overseas, basis for which are proven lies...ie NWO Occupiers.



> You have the freedom to say what you wish because of them. Many died for your freedom. They paid the price for you.


 The war for our Freedoms was fought in 1776 by Militia men.
Not by those fighting and killing in Vietnam, Korea, Phillipinbes, Iraq, Afganistan, Germany, Italy or any of the other follies we've taken part in.
Those were Bankster Wars.

I would refer you to Congressional Medal Of Honor Winner and Marine General Smedley Butlers WAR IS A RACKET.
Our Founding Fathers were very Clear on their Contempt for a 'Standing Army'
They were militia men, not Globalist mercenaries.


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## BillThomas

Gunny said:


> How 'bout the fact that Obama is spending your money on unnecessary government programs?
> Huh Mr. *LIB*ertarian?:


His budget is very similar to Bush. And I hated Bush, so I lathe Obama that much more..
He is just another NWO puppet working for Globalist Marxists. His Mother WAS Marxist and Jewess, his father a Kenyan Muslim.
By blood Obama is a Jew, as their bloodline is Maternal. The Chicago Tribune calls Obama Americas First jewish President.












> How 'bout the fact that Obama is continually breaking your "*LIB*ertarian" door down with new unnecessary government programs?
> Huh Mr. *LIB*ertarian?


 I dont believe in Federal Govt or a Private Central Bank (Fed Reserve), thats why we had a Civil War, for the FED to USURP states Rights.
It was unjust and unethical and immoral.



> I don't buy the refuse you are spewing. Hijacking this thred like the Left Wing Political Terrorist you are.
> And to think...
> I sleep under the same Flag as you... :eyeroll:


 Yore a typical Neo CON hypocrite.
Long as the fellow stealing your rights (Patriot Act & Bailouts) has a "R" in front of his name, youre mute.
Let a Black Jew with a Muslim Father introduce similar budget as his predecessor, spending money we dont have and usurping rights, and youre suddenly up in arms. 
Typical.


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## BillThomas

US Troops guarding Opium Poppies for cultivation and working with local farmers to protect them. All the Opium/Morphime, Heroin almost makes the deaths worth it, doesnt it? Not to mention the Unocal Pipeline from the Caucus.










Such good little order takers and Globalists, arent they?













































In 2010, Russia accused United States of supporting the opium production in Afghanistan. Presently with resurgence of high output production of opium and heroin in post-Taliban Afghanistan, there is an ongoing heroin addiction epidemic in Russia which is claiming 30,000 lives each year, mostly among young people. There were two and half million heroin addicts in Russia by 2009.

July 2000, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar, collaborating with the United Nations to eradicate heroin production in Afghanistan, declared that growing poppies was un-Islamic, resulting in one of the world's most successful anti-drug campaigns. As a result of this ban, opium poppy cultivation was reduced by 91% from the previous year's estimate of 82,172 hectares. The ban was so effective that Helmand Province, which had accounted for more than half of this area, recorded no poppy cultivation during the 2001 season.

Enter America after 911 and opium production is back in full swing complete with American troops guarding the fields.

Guess who was(he's dead now he got shot in his home) also a major player in the Opium trade and on the C.I.A payroll? The Afghan president's brother Ahmed Wali Karzai.

Quote:
KABUL, Afghanistan - Ahmed Wali Karzai, the brother of the Afghan president and a suspected player in the country's booming illegal opium trade, gets regular payments from the Central Intelligence Agency, and has for much of the past eight years, according to current and former American officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/wo...hmedwalikarzai

Quote:
But after 9/11, the US military-industrial complex quickly invaded Afghanistan and began facilitating the reinstatement of the country's poppy industry. According to the United Nations Drug Control Program (UNDCP), opium cultivation increased by 657 percent in 2002 after the US military invaded the country under the direction of then-President George W. Bush

Source:

Centre for Research on Globalisation (CRG)

http://www.undcp.org/pakistan/report_2001-10-16_1.pdf

http://www.undcp.org/pakistan/report_2002-02-28_1.pdf

http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/W...010_lo-res.pdf


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## ShineRunner

I took this test and passed&#8230;
Do you like him any better white










No? Me neither.

See, you are NOT a racist !!


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## Plainsman

> His Mother WAS Marxist and Jewess, his father a Kenyan Muslim.
> By blood Obama is a Jew, as their bloodline is Maternal. The Chicago Tribune calls Obama Americas First jewish President


Not Jewish, but Arab. If memory serves me right Obama is as much or more Arab than black. Also, the democrats in Chicago wanted the Jewish vote so blame them for calling Obama the first Jewish president. All political maneuvering.

You really have a bad case of hate for our soldiers don't you. I was never in the military, but when I was in college back in the hippie era I was not one of them calling them baby killers. I have always supported the military. I don't think they were involved with confiscating weapons in New Orleans. Perhaps some of the state National Guard helped the police I don't remember. I would guess most didn't like it but followed orders blindly.


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## Gunny

Bill T said: "Yore a typical Neo CON hypocrite".

Ummm... Nice try.

Please look back in this longwinded thread and point out where I have defended anything Bush did. I did not think Bush was a good representation of me and my political beliefs.

You never asked what my affiliation was (not that it matters). You just spewed your typical bigoted response and took it for granted that I was a Rep. 
(FYI, I consider myself a patriotic christian.)
I like Ron Paul mostley. But I'm not the one bashing Bush and Jews and ignoring the thread topic. And come to think of it, I haven't heard Ron Paul say such nasty things about them either. Probably because he is focused on real issues with over-spending and trying to get government out of our lives. You know... some Libertarian thinking. He definatly isn't screaming Liberal talking points.

_"and youre suddenly up in arms". _

Ohhh Kaaaay. :thumb: That was sudden. I don't know how you were able to put words so suddenly in my mouth. Please let me know, thru your vast "expertise" what we (Me and you) are talking about. I thought it was about your constant whining about Jews.

So short sided and blinded by your hatred for everything Jewish and Bush-ish.

My argument has been about your non-christain stance on a race/ethnicity. You can pick and choose any bible reference you want to let you sleep at night, but the reality is that christianity is NOT what you portray it to be.

Even when we speak of "*your* enemies" the New Testament says in Matthew 5:44- "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you"
Or Luke 6:35- "But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil".

Instead you choose to talk [email protected]!t... 
Psalm 34:12-16 "What man is there who desires life and loves many days, that he may see good? Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from speaking deceit. Turn away from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it. The eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous and his ears toward their cry. The face of the Lord is against those who do evil, to cut off the memory of them from the earth".

...and in turn think you are of the righteous.
Romans 10:1-21 "Brothers, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them". ...

Try using less inflamitory, bigoted balderdash. It will make you look like less of an a-hole.

And with that...

Good luck with that chip...

I'm out...

Gunny


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## hak_65

huntin1 said:


> Bush is far from the worst President we've had. I used to think that distinction went to Carter, but then along comes Obama. Of course, neither JFK or Clinton were stellar examples either.
> 
> You have the hate thing real bad for GWB there BT. I'm betting that you keep a towel next to your computer when you visit sites like this. You know, to wipe the spittle from your screen so you can see to post.
> 
> huntin1


He has a hatred of GWB but fails to acknowledged that Clinton is the root of almost all of his arguments. Love Israel hate Israel either way I don't care, basically NATO put them there and they are our's to deal with.

Personally, we should look at how the Israelis do things and learn.


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## ShineRunner

Just saw on the news that health insurance for some college students has gone up from the 700.00 to 1400.00 range in the last 2 to 3 years. The college is going to wait and see if it is going to go up more or what is going to happen. But don't anyone worry they will get around to reading the health bill soon :eyeroll:


----------

