# Downer Habitat



## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

I covered 260 miles today on a pheasant scouting trip.

Most of the PLOTS.










A favorite CRP field. Note the degree of slope.










The smoke line like Califorina smog.










Cattails going up. Too many to post them all.










And if baling it, burning it, and digging it isn't enough. Throw in drain tile too.


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## gonehunting (May 14, 2005)

Don't forget the bulldozers taking down the trees rows, backhoes burying the rock piles, and the plows in the native prairie that was never considered good farmland because all the rocks. I come from a strong farm background but at times I feel things are going way too far.


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## NaturalcamoFacepaint (Aug 29, 2012)

They just came up with a plan for crp and water conservation here in MN what made them realize they needed to do something was that no one was purchasing licences .
The pictures are a pretty good statement you made hope that you dont turn into a MN. Good luck this year.

Sven 6513802058


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Dick, two nice native prairie pastures near my house went under the plow some time while we were in California the past two weeks. We have a burning ban, but the smoke was so thick around the Jamestown reservoir that it bothered my eyes and throat today. At one time I counted 14 fires today.

My wife and I went for an early drive Saturday morning. I seen five pheasants, but with no dog I couldn't get them out of the weed patches I run them into. I was actually out just before sunrise in the hopes of finding a couple of skunks or a coyote to do a little bullet testing on. I totally forgot I had a shotgun in the tool box until pheasant number three. It didn't do me any good anyway. This polyneuropathy screws up my balance so bad I couldn't sneak up on and flush a deaf pheasant.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

Hey Dick,

You must have been down in my neck of the prairie because that is what I have been seeing for the past two years with this year being the worst. I have not yet seen a single piece of PLOTS land that wasn't mowed or tilled this year.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I have been a member of this site since 2005 and I have been saying it all these years. ND NEEDS TO SAVE HABITAT!!!.... Otherwis it will be gone....This is all happening now because the price of crops......it could be because of the stupid ethanol stuff, drought in other area's of the country, etc. I also made comments on the drain tile and to take lessons from your neighboring state to the east..... that is why ducks and pheasants are not to the populations they once were in MN...HABITAT LOSS. We don't have the habitat because it was destroyed. That is why when I see all the R vs NR BS that flys around on this site and one blaming the other for birds and bird numbers isn't the case....it is what is showing in these pictures...HABITAT LOSS.

ND is a breeding ground for all ducks and geese in the USA....when you see sloughs, grass, etc come out of production you will see the population of ducks and geese drop. Then you will see more competition for the available lands be it competition between R hunters and R hunters or Nr Hunters vs R hunters.....etc. Habitat is where it is at. The only people who can change or request change in a state in regaurds to how the land is being used or saved is R's. So talk with your legislative people....ask them how to save the grass lands and sloughs for everyone. Do they tax the oil $$.... Do you raise prices on hunting licenses or R or NR or both? Do you tax service industries (hotel tax)? Do you tax everyone in the state (land owners)? To you make a sales tax adjustment of 3/8 of 1%... (like they did in MN) on everyone who spends $$$ in the state? Need to think of ways to help pay for programs, purchasing lands, compensating landowners to leave the land alone, etc. Something needs to be done or all you will be doing is complaining from the sidelines.

Everyone from ND go talk with your elected officials......everyone not from ND go talk to your legislative officals and get programs in your home states!! Everyone contact their elected officals in washington to make this a federal issue....in your home state and others (FARM BILL)..... Because once it is gone.....it is gone.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Over 600,000 acres of CRP expired this fall in ND most did not qualify to go back in. So farmers (how dare them) are going to farm this land again. Yes we are burning it off haying it and plowing it up, thats life get use to it. CRP doesn't keep up with rental rates so why would one enroll land in CRP? Dick if you are so concerened why don't you put your farm in CRP?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Chuck, agreed. Your state saw the need and passed a outdoor measure for funding. We saw the need here and flubbed our chance at that. I hope we get a second chance for an outdoor measure and this time people step up to get the work done right.



> g/o: CRP doesn't keep up with rental rates so why would one enroll land in CRP? Dick if you are so concerened why don't you put your farm in CRP?


On some soil types CRP rates do indeed compare to current cash rent. I don't know any farmer that would rent saline ground for $70 PA, but USDA will in Barnes County for CRP. So I did. Have a nice day g/o. :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Over 600,000 acres of CRP expired this fall in ND most did not qualify to go back in. So farmers (how dare them) are going to farm this land again. Yes we are burning it off haying it and plowing it up, thats life get use to it. CRP doesn't keep up with rental rates so why would one enroll land in CRP?


G/O: I agree with you 100%. Not only think about cash rent. Think about as a land owner it is even profitable to, what I am calling it "share" work/crop. What that means is you pay for all the seed, fertilizer, etc. but pay someone to put it in and take it off. Then you sell it. The person who is actually working the land is getting a decent wage and the person who is selling the crop is making good profit now with the prices... $6 corn and $15 beans.

That is why I was talking about the goverment needs to step in and do something or it will be gone. And the only way goverment will step in is if people complain and want something done. Then taxes will raise or something.

But I am not blaming a land owner that is not getting good payments for CRP that equals or is close to what they can make in rent. Or how can a farmer leave acres in place for $100 an acre lets say when putting in a crop they can make much much more. You can't blame them one bit.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

g/o. I have argued unsuccessfully for years to have CRP rates reflect commodity prices so the difference between land rental rates for commodity production and CRP is minimized but with no luck (going back 3 farm bills ago). I have also argued in favor of a federal/state/private/sportsmen partnership that would achieve the same result, but no luck. In both the past and current unpassed farm bill, I have advocated for more weight for qualifying CRP be given to wildlife and hunting, but again no luck. If you asked on this forum whether hunters would be willing to pay more, I suspect well over 90% would be in favor and most of us are willing to put our money where our mouth is. I strongly supported the failed conservation initiative because it may have been a source of funds to close the difference between CRP and commodity rental rates.

I have never blamed any farmer for taking their land out of CRP to plant commodities that make more money. Granted, my efforts to get something good for both sportsmen and farmers have been in vain, but I am not going to stop trying. I just wish I had more than the farmers in just my local area who have joined with me to achieve the same thing by contacting their elected representatives. They, too, would consider CRP if the rental rates were closer to commodity rental rates. They, too, would consider a package deal of CRP, PLOTS, WRP and private money (e.g. DU or PF) that came close to what they can rent their land for corn or soybeans. They are NOT interested in becoming a fee hunting operation or pay to access or locking up their land so others cannot enjoy it. (And two of my neighbors did turn down a guide service that wanted to lease their land). 
C'est la vie. Tomorrow looks good for fishing so fishing it is. The CRP and pheasants and deer are going, going, gone.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Another problem with CRP you are locked into a price for 10 to 15 years depending on contract. I got caught in this once but will never do it again, if they would adjust it every 5 years more people would look at it.



> On some soil types CRP rates do indeed compare to current cash rent. I don't know any farmer that would rent saline ground for $70 PA, but USDA will in Barnes County for CRP. So I did. Have a nice day g/o.


How many acres did you put in Dick ? Did you put it all in PLOTS also? You should. $70 an acre is not very much I turned down $105.00 plus they offered me another 20k to reseed it and they would pay all the seed and chemical. :beer:


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## Springerguy (Sep 10, 2003)

I'm no expert to the farming industry but it would seem to me that if the government would quit subsidizing crop insurance and legislating ethanol production you might not see so much of the CRP getting plowed under. I'm all for wildlife habitat but you can't just keep ratcheting up the price of CRP, at some point it needs to stop and let the chips fall where they may. I can't imagine how anyone would enter the farm business in the current environment without inheritance, the price of land is out of reach for anyone that would want to get into the business.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

g/o said:


> Another problem with CRP you are locked into a price for 10 to 15 years depending on contract. I got caught in this once but will never do it again, if they would adjust it every 5 years more people would look at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There is alot they should change to make it more appealing.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

On of the problems is the farm lobby is much stronger than the sportsmans or conservation lobby in ND. It seems like most farmers think with their wallets and don't consider the long term effects of what they are doing to their land. I truely believe that at some point much of ND land is going to suffer from "chemical burn" and production on those lands will tank.

The other think that probably needs some change is the state water commission. Dispite all the flooding that has occured in the last 10-15 years ditching and tiling in ND is unprecidented the last couple years. I have to wonder if our water boards are even looking at the permit applications. If farmers had to jump through the hoops that the cities and counties had to do for water related projects much of this would probably be stopped.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> On of the problems is the farm lobby is much stronger than the sportsmans or conservation lobby in ND. It seems like most farmers think with their wallets and don't consider the long term effects of what they are doing to their land.


Exactly. And most ag groups are funded by a check-off on grain or beef that gives them huge sums to lobby politicans.

Sportsmen on the other hand will vote red or blue, but they do not vote blaze orange.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

Going back to the original pictures Dick posted. When I sent them to my nephew, he said the rising columns of smoke reminded him of the fires in Kuwait when he was over there. While driving back from a fishing trip today, I saw no less than 14 sloughs being burned.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

What is particularly sad about the burnoff of sloughs is that they would have provided prime winter cover for our reduced deer population, in leu of the CRP that is now gone. Many of those sloughs being burned because they are still too wet to be cut.

Maybe the gratis license system should be changed so that in order to be eligible at least an acre or two of non tillable/ habitat has to be present on the property.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

I am a volunteer fireman and have recently responded to 2 wildland fires that have gotten out of control. One fire jumped the road and started a huge adjacent cattail slough burning and the other started burning into an old farmstead. These fires are getting rather expensive for me as I am a selfemployed contractor. When my pager goes off you can bet I lose a days work.After the fire is out you go back to the station clean equiptment, fill trucks with water, and file reports.
In Sept I responded to a combine fire on a farm where the owner does not even let the locals hunt , he says its too much bother. I supose I could say that about the volunteer firefighting.
Life is a 2 way street.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Old Hunter said:


> I am a volunteer fireman and have recently responded to 2 wildland fires that have gotten out of control. One fire jumped the road and started a huge adjacent cattail slough burning and the other started burning into an old farmstead. These fires are getting rather expensive for me as I am a selfemployed contractor. When my pager goes off you can bet I lose a days work.After the fire is out you go back to the station clean equiptment, fill trucks with water, and file reports.
> In Sept I responded to a combine fire on a farm where the owner does not even let the locals hunt , he says its too much bother. I supose I could say that about the volunteer firefighting.
> Life is a 2 way street.[/quote]
> 
> :beer: Well said.


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## Iowa 69 (Mar 12, 2012)

hi, iam a farmer in southern iowa.we are seein the same thing.high commodity prices,sky rocketing land prices, cash rent wars.bulldozers,backhoes,tilein machines.things goin crazy.alot of none farm investers.most of these folks are runnin blind.they forget the lessons that that their fore fathers knew.markets crash,drought,floods,government policies change.if you rape and use up what you have,,,,,,you leave nothing.iowa 69


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have often talked about some poor ag practices only to be met by "ag basher". I guess that is their only defense. I support agriculture, but not likeing some practices like drainage isn't ag bashing, it's only complaining about a single practice.

I think indsports nephew must have passed by my house the same day I counted fires. From my front deck I counted 14 fires one morning, and by noon the smoke in my yard was to thick to see any fires. Only one day that week could I work outdoors in my yard because of so much smoke.

I also argued the points dakotashooter made about drain and tile. I worked for 35 years in wetland ecology, but a guy who could google argued he knew better. I swear the dumber they are the smarter they think they are. Ignorance is bliss.

I don't think rental prices will go down until the farmers stop paying them. It is not the fault of the hunter who drives in the yard, it's the fault of the neighbor who outbids you. It's farmers themselves who drive the price of land purchase and land rental. Those who pay to much will go bankrupt. That's what happens in any business.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Well it is certain farmers that keep raising the rent price. They hit 240 on the moniter on corn for a round or 60 for beans for a round and they then claim that was their farm average. Then your landowner hears that and ask you want you averaged, and you say X. Then they decide if you made X you can afford higher rent.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

It will be interesting to see what effect tiling has in the next 10-15 years. I'm betting those same fields will have irrigation settups after that period of time. I look at the investments farmers are making in their land, belt removal, tiling, drainage, irrigation and wonder how they can get a return back. Especially if they are also paying on the land. I really question if most will even see a return in thier lifetime.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

They will see a return if the prices hold. If they drop alot of people will be in the hurt bag. But that is a long way off. The shelter belts need to come out anyways. They don't do anything productive anymore with the minimum till/ no till/ strip till. Tiling that return takes a few years to get your return. Ditching, after your inital investment of the ditcher and the guidance system you can see instant return. Irrigation will take awhile to make it pay, unless its on sandy soil, they you will see return very fast. You have to spend money to make money.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

One thing many people need to realize with the whole land rent wars. Farmers are spreading out that investment per acre basis. IE: they pay $200 on 100 acres, $50 on 200 acres and then $60 on 200 acres. So for that 500 acres they are average is $84 per acre...so paying the $200 for some ground isnt bad if you average it out and that land could be closer to the home farm, better yields, etc.

Here is a story in my area. A piece of land rental bid when up on a silent bid auction. It brought in $550 per acre. This piece was 135 acres. The person who was the winning bidder home farm is about 1 mile from this place. It also has higher yields. But this farmer is also averaging about $150 per acre in land rental. (Average in my ares is hovering around $300) But the funny thing is after they got the bid and it spread on what they are paying. Their phone rang off the hook with people wondering if they would want to rent from them....LOL. So sometimes when you hear how high land rent prices are there is many things that come into play. Just like when land sells. But the sad thing is that everyone will think they can get these prices once one person does.

I know off topic a little but it is all the reason why we are seeing habitat get destroyed, tilled up, drain tile put in, etc. People want to make more money because they either have too or just want to get it while the getting is good.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Chuck, your last sentence covers it pretty good. 


> People want to make more money because they either have too or just want to get it while the getting is good.


I can understand the CRP being broke out if it isn't marginal ground. But today we were crossing the coteau and saw several native pastures with the rocks popped out and laying on the sod. So you know what the plan is for that. Corn next year. You have to wonder how much is enough?


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Dick Monson said:


> Chuck, your last sentence covers it pretty good.
> 
> 
> > People want to make more money because they either have too or just want to get it while the getting is good.
> ...


Enough will get here when the ethanol plants fail, and the demand for corn will drop, thus dropping beans and wheat.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

With the financial mess this country is in the ethanol plants will fail because it is now necessary to cut the subsidies on a program that is a pipe dream. It should be remembered in history right along with Solyndra. The only difference is it wasted even more money than the Obama pipe dream.


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## teamflightstoppersND (Feb 20, 2009)

After returning to western nodak I have realized the toll the cutting and burning of cattails and CRP has taken on the wildlife. We saw 3 deer over 3 days of pheasant hunting. Many sloughs have been cut and burned leaving even less habitat for pheasants. I normally hunt out east for waterfowl and I did not think much of burning sloughs because I do not hunt deer or pheasants there. Its real sad to see and I hope I will still be able to hunt deer and pheasants in the near future.

I just wish the heritage fund would have got put on the ballot because we need to save this habitat for all wildlife and all kinds of hunters and we are not going to be able to rely on the federal gov.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

And why would a landowner want someone telling them what to do on their land?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Our national symbol looking over his country.










The Conservation Heritage Measure would not have told anyone what they had to do with their land. It would have offered incentives $$ for conservation practices. Strictly voluntary participation.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Looks to me like the ground in the photo has been fall chiseled. Getting things prepped for next year.

Dick Monson said in that measure 5 thread,,



> While I was *chisel plowing* the other day I had the radio on tuned to KFYR (Bismarck), where the announcer was doing a so called "panel discussion" on ND initiated measure 5 (animal cruelty). It was a snow job if I ever heard one. The announcer had only invited the Vote No folks, no one from the Vote Yes was allowed. Strike one.


Hey Dick, did you attend the ND wildlife federations pow wow Nov. 3rd?


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Don't they already have some programs like that? I know there was/is one were you sell your wetlands and they have to remain wetlands forever. You always have to farm around them even when dry. I know this because some of the land we farm there is 3 quarters with them on there.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> I know there was/is one were you sell your wetlands and they have to remain wetlands forever. You always have to farm around them even when dry


Depends, FMHA sold repo land and they required special easements to be placed on and that can't be farmed. Most easements the fish and wildlife has on this land can be farmed and can be burned every 3 years if you ask for a permit it costs 5 bucks. Not a problem getting one.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Be careful what you wish for ...

The price being paid in ND for quality farm land is heading upwards very fast ... if commodity prices fall, some of these farmers will likely loose much if not everything. Remember pre-CRP and all the farm auctions across the corn belt. Well ND is in the corn belt now.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Be careful what you wish for ...
> 
> The price being paid in ND for quality farm land is heading upwards very fast ... if commodity prices fall, some of these farmers will likely loose much if not everything. Remember pre-CRP and all the farm auctions across the corn belt. Well ND is in the corn belt now.


Prairie..... You are correct. But this is in the whole midwest with land prices and rental prices. One thing that hopefully all farmers understand or are thinking about is that the corn belt the past 3 seasons there has been a drought some place. If that didn't happen corn prices would not be hoovering around $8....it would be closer to $4-$5. Which is still great price. But hopefully people don't bank on those prices happening every year. Because all it will take is the whole corn belt to have a good crop and the prices will fall. Then with some of the tax stuff that is coming down the line the first of the year. Farmers will need to hide money or they will be in the % that Obama administration will want to tax the crap out of. $200K single and $250K joint.... If you don't think this is correct.

But again.....people are wanting to capitalize while they can and can't blame them. One thing that is scary is others who are wanting to "jump" into farming because that is where the money is now. They think it is easy or a quick buck. These are the ones to look out for and will be going belly up when the market shifts or if the market shifts.


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