# 22 K -Hornet



## Tyrant

Who's spent some trigger time on this bad boy ??

I'm shooting lil gun behind 35 gr. a-max and just ordered some ( 40 boxes of 100 ) 33Gr speer hollow points.

They were on sale for 6.99 box.

Diggen for some info, Thanks in advance.

Norm


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## Tyrant

If anybody has had a Vanilla 22 Hornet that wouldn't shoot here is why.

The cartridge that was developed in 1930 used a rim to headspace the cartridge in the chamber.

The invention of the K-Hornet ( reaming the chamber out ) To create a fire formed case that headspaces off of the shoulder of the case thus providing superior alignment with the barrel and very accurate headspacing.

I have heard much but still have to to wait on the gun plumber to punch my Ruger 77/22 out. He is also cutting a 11 DEG crown with 60 DEG recess to the rifling. A Precision Shooting Magazine thing.

The word on the street is 3450 FPS with 13 GR of Lil Gun behind a 35 GR A-Max. I have 400 of the little buggers all molyied up waiting R&D. as well as two pounds of Lil Gun.

Was hoping to run into someone on this sight with some experiance on this cool little round.

The .17 HMR is a 2550 FPS LASER. With a 35 GR A-max doing 3450 this thing should cause trouble to 300 YDS. ( wind dependant )

Wish I knew about this chambering 10 years ago.

Norm


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## cwoparson

Head space is not the problem with the Ruger 77/22, at least not directly. It's the sloppy two piece bolt Ruger insists on using. The pin holding the two halves together is to small and the gap between the two halves is to large. Consequently you never get the same cartridge to bore line up twice in a row which means accuracy goes out the window. A lot has been written about possible fixes that sometimes work. Best is to send the action off and have the bolt sleeved and a tighter fitting pin installed and the barrel set back. http://www.ct-precision.com/ Or you could try a home made job such as this; http://www.centerfirecentral.com/ruger22h.html My solution after two years of frustration was to sell mine and buy a Browning. Problem solved.

My most accurate load is 12.2 grains H-110 behind a 35 grain V-Max for 3000 fps. Lil'Gun works okay but doesn't seem to work as well in the Hornet as well as a straight wall case such as the .357 magnum where it really shines. I have loaded 45 grain Sierra SP with 13 grains of Lil'Gun @ 2800 FPS with so so results but nothing spectacular. One to one and a quarter at 100 yards. Be aware with a B.C. of only .109 the 35 grain V-Max runs out of steam pretty fast. Sighted in at 150 yards it is down to 22 magnum power levels at 200 yards with a 5 inch drop.


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## Tyrant

This data was aquired from JBM calculations.

Calculated Table 22 K-Hornet 35 A-max @ 3450 FPS
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 3483.9 3.120 943.1 0.000 0.0 ***
50 0.1 0.2 0.0 0.0 3003.1 2.690 700.8 0.046 0.0 0.0
100 0.7 0.7 0.0 0.0 2571.2 2.303 513.7 0.100 0.0 0.0
150 -0.0 -0.0 0.0 0.0 2178.2 1.951 368.7 0.164 0.0 0.0
200 -2.6 -1.2 0.0 0.0 1821.8 1.632 257.9 0.239 0.0 0.0
250 -7.8 -3.0 0.0 0.0 1509.0 1.352 176.9 0.330 0.0 0.0
300 -16.8 -5.4 0.0 0.0 1255.0 1.124 122.4 0.439 0.0 0.0
350 -31.5 -8.6 0.0 0.0 1079.8 0.967 90.6 0.568 0.0 0.0
400 -53.5 -12.8 0.0 0.0 972.9 0.871 73.5 0.715 0.0 0.0
450 -84.7 -18.0 0.0 0.0 897.8 0.804 62.6 0.876 0.0 0.0
500 -126.7 -24.2 0.0 0.0 837.4 0.750 54.5 1.049 0.0 0.0
18 Apr 2008 19:41:03, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/

Energy 
@ 200 yards 22-WMR 91.7
@ 200 yards 22 K-Hornet 257.9 FT/LB

Drop
22 WMR @ 200 24.1
22 K Hornet @ 200 2.6

I'm not shure where you get your numbers Mr. Parson It seems to me to be apples and oranges. Other than the size of the tube.

Bolt issues are a myth in the Ruger 77/22 in K-Hornet. It' all about chamber and controlling headspace.

Calculated Table 22WMR 40gr @ 1400 fps
Range Drop Drop Windage Windage Velocity Mach Energy Time Lead Lead
(yds) (in) (moa) (in) (moa) (ft/s) (none) (ft•lbs) (s) (in) (moa)
0 -1.5 *** 0.0 *** 1409.6 1.263 176.4 0.000 0.0 ***
50 1.9 3.7 0.0 0.0 1275.8 1.143 144.6 0.112 0.0 0.0
100 -0.0 -0.0 0.0 0.0 1165.4 1.044 120.6 0.235 0.0 0.0
150 -8.3 -5.3 0.0 0.0 1080.4 0.968 103.7 0.369 0.0 0.0
200 -24.1 -11.5 0.0 0.0 1016.2 0.910 91.7 0.512 0.0 0.0
250 -48.2 -18.4 0.0 0.0 965.6 0.865 82.8 0.664 0.0 0.0
300 -81.7 -26.0 0.0 0.0 923.3 0.827 75.7 0.823 0.0 0.0
350 -125.4 -34.2 0.0 0.0 886.5 0.794 69.8 0.989 0.0 0.0
400 -180.1 -43.0 0.0 0.0 853.4 0.764 64.7 1.161 0.0 0.0
450 -246.8 -52.4 0.0 0.0 823.2 0.737 60.2 1.340 0.0 0.0
500 -326.3 -62.3 0.0 0.0 795.2 0.712 56.2 1.526 0.0 0.0
18 Apr 2008 19:49:21, JBM [http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm]

Mr Parson, the Bolt problems you speak of. Are they in the K Hornet or Hornet ?

Thanks for looking,
Norm


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## cwoparson

I was speaking of the 22 Hornet, not the K-Hornet. Ruger as you know doesn't produce a K-Hornet so what your talking about is a after market conversion. As to the 22 magnum comment I meant that to be at 200 yards the 35 grain V-Max is down to the level of the muzzle velocity of the 22 magnum. My bad wording. Nevertheless the small stubby 35 grain V-Max will not carry it's energy like the longer 40 grain boat tail and up V-max's will. When it drops to that lower velocity and energy at 200 yards you lose the expansion and explosion you expect to see. It's just a fact of life.

Hornady lists a maximum load for the K-Hornet of 13.5 grains of Lil'Gun for the 35 grain V-Max for a muzzle velocity of 3122 fps. At the same time Hornady lists for the straight Hornet a load of 12.7 grains of H-110 behind the 35 grain V-Max for 3200 fps. The word on the street of 3450 fps is someone's pipe dream. When loading the 35 grain V-Max and following Hornady's loading instruction there is no advantage with the K-Hornet, in truth just the opposite. 
http://www.flintwood.co.uk/reloading/22khornet.htm Not Hornady's site but it verifies the max load in the K-Hornet.

If you feel the bolt problem with the Ruger is a myth then by all means continue. It's a Ruger problem whether it is a straight Hornet or a re-chambered K-Hornet. Head spacing off the rim or shoulder makes no difference. I to refused to accept the inevitable and spent valuable time and money trying to get my Ruger shoot the way I wanted to. I was simply giving you my personal experience as well as many others that have run into that problem. Do a search in some shooting forums and you will discover the same conclusion by many other experienced shooters. You may get lucky and have a rare exception, I've know a few that have. The guy at CT-Precision makes pretty good money correcting Rugers two piece bolt design.


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## Tyrant

Hello again Mr. Parson,

Once again English is giving you a problem, read the thread title. I am fully aware of the reamer and headspace gauge required to modify the chamber of a 22 hornet as NOBODY sells a K- hornet.

If you take Molybdenum Disulfide into consideration in the FPS it will net a couple hundred extra FPS. I assure you I have a trustworthy source with the speed info and when I get my rifle back from the gunplumber I will post results.

Pipe Dream, only one I have is trying to carry out a meaningful conversation with you. Or possibly get you to understand the written word.

You think there is no advantage to K- hornet. That is fine there are allot of people who are very comfortable not realising techknowlogy is advancing daily.

How many modern cartridges use just the RIM to headspace off of ?
Maybe the rigby family or some other nitro mag Africa cigars. But no cartride that is trying to be accurate has no shoulder.......

I wish I could have bought the defective ruger you couldn't get to shoot I would have put research and common sence into it and you know what I bet it would have been a shooter. I have friends that can think of about 30 people that went the K direction with the 77/22. That is the information I came up with when I searched other forums on this topic it is definatly NOT a rare exception to get a Ruger 77/22 in K configeration to shoot bugholes.

The recipe to do it right = K-chamber, 20" barrel, Target Crown. Mine will be done in three weeks.

I'm happy to see the Guy at CT is making money, I enjoy seeing people do well. I'm pretty shure he won't see any money from me.

Trying to explain this to you is becoming boring, like sticking a square peg in a round hole.

I tell you what, give me this. Time to put my junk rifle together and load some crap rounds with crappy bullets and all I ask of you is to have some type of media player loaded in your PC as I will post video.

I know you will go to great lengths to disagree with that but what can I do.

To anybody that made it through this action packed debockle. Please contribute any of you own experiances or results from this cool little cartridge.
Thanks in advance,
Norm


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## cwoparson

Alright Norm, I attempted to engage you in a civil conversation on a subject you posted with the thought in mind of a second chance after your first few posts got off on a bad start. That was a mistake on my part and I won't repeat that mistake. Your asinine come back with comments of packed debacle (corrected spelling), boring, and square peg in a round hole only solidifies a first impression by myself and others. Your first post said you were digging for info but apparently it was more of a argument and childish insult thread you were looking for. You've proven, at least to me what you are really all about.

I in no way was running down the K-Hornet or the Ruger. It's a fine round almost 70 years old, certainly not new technology but it does give a little improvement over the regular Hornet. The Ruger 77/22 Hornet is a fine rifle with one serious design flaw. I also never said a good shooting K-Hornet was a rare exception. I was addressing the 77/22 Hornet without a bolt problem. A problem with the English language is not mine.

Trying to make the Hornet perform beyond it's design and shoot like a .223 has been tried by others with the same results of a dead end street. What you got from me was personal experience and observation of others with the same problem with the 77/22 Hornet. Reaming the Ruger out to a K-Hornet will not correct the bolt flaw. With that I bid you a good day and hope you enjoy yourself.


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## Plainsman

CW your right about the Ruger. I gave my son my fathers old Winchester model 43 that shot very good. Of course in that old model you had to use a .223 diameter bullet and not the .224 diameter. I blew a couple cases in half when I was a kid loading with the old Lee handloader. The old $4.50 handloader.

Tyrant there is no need for confrontation in every thread you enter. I PMed you about these things. You would do well to listen to cwparson, he is a firearms knowledgeable man.


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## Tyrant

Anybody who reads this should get a kick out of that last post. I believe I have angered someone who knows so much he cannot consider himself ever being incorrect.

I want only to learn, If I see or hear a conflicting bit of information I seek to find the actual result. By consulting more experianced partys.

I'm going to proove to this board YOU ARE WRONG Mr Parson.
By doing the following.

1. I have been just notified of a friends video shooting clay pidgons @ 400 YDS going 100% hits. Everybody will get to see that.

2. You can get 3450 out of a K- hornet with 33 GR HP's Will get pictures from the display of My PACT XP

3. I will post pictures of actual targets with grids.

QUOTE from Plainsman

Tyrant there is no need for confrontation in every thread you enter. I PMed you about these things. You would do well to listen to cwparson, he is a firearms knowledgeable man.

All I ask is to read the above thread and decide who you think is being confontational.

I'm playing nice
Norm


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## Savage260

> Once again English is giving you a problem


Hummm.........techknowlogy? common sence?? definatly??? shure???? debockle????? experiances??????

Some one definately has trouble with English, but I can't be sure.



> Diggen for some info, Thanks in advance.


Wow, asking nicely for info, then ripping on the people who give you exactly what you ask for. Doesn't sound like "playing nice" to me.

If you know so much about this Norm, why did you ask the question in the first place? If you don't like an answer don't ask the question.


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## Tyrant

laite319 said:


> Once again English is giving you a problem
> 
> 
> 
> Hummm.........techknowlogy? common sence?? definatly??? shure???? debockle????? experiances??????
> 
> Some one definately has trouble with English, but I can't be sure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Diggen for some info, Thanks in advance.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Wow, asking nicely for info, then ripping on the people who give you exactly what you ask for. Doesn't sound like "playing nice" to me.
> 
> If you know so much about this Norm, why did you ask the question in the first place? If you don't like an answer don't ask the question.
Click to expand...

C'mon Man,

You hit the ring with both gloves on swingin !!!

I was not ripping info that was exactly what I asked for. I want to hear real world experiance about a Wildcat chambering called K- hornet as the thread title reads. The opinion I recieved was far from what I was Diggen for....

The issue with the bolt is something I have no experiance with. I have posted this same thread on other forums. The people with experiance on the matter were asked about Ruger bolt problems. I cannot dig up any info on bolt problems with a K- hornet. That would lead me to believe the square case sides and shoulder eliminate the alignment issue.

You have seen the reaction to posting those results here.

I have no solid results to share, yet but I will share the results good or bad when I have them..

Laite319, 
It was a pleasure to make you acquaintance.

Norm


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## varmit b gone

Ok Tyrant, I've kept my mouth shut long enough. You seem to start some sort of a disruption with every post you enter. Mr. Parson, as you call him, was being civil and helpful. You seem to want to raise hell in every post. You just don't want anybody to have anymore expirience than you. I personally have learned alot on this site and these are knowledgable people. You don't have to agree with what everyone says, but it may be right. Don't raise hell over it either, just take it with a grain of salt and read whatever anyone else have to say, but they may agree with cwoparson, and I guess they'll all be wrong.


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## Tyrant

Varmit B Gone,

Good to meet you, I will follow your advise.

Have you had much experiance with the Ruger 77/22 in K hornet ?

Norm


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## varmit b gone

No, I don't. I was just reading this to see if I could pick up any info. All I know is that Rugers are pretty good guns, basically all I shoot. Don't have any expirience with the 77/22 though.


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## Kelly Hannan

I had a Ruger 22 Hornet, glass bedded it with floated barrel, worked the trigger, 2 different scopes and hundreds of rounds thru it. Couldn't hit the barn if I was standing in it. Didn't keep it very long.
I also have no experience with a K-hornet, Sorry. But I do know I won't own another Ruger 22 Hornet. Don't know why it wouldn't shoot and don't care if it was a bolt issue, or a headspace issue, just know I won't make the same mistake again.


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## Tyrant

Thanks Kelly,

Only thing I know for shure is that some people had 77/22's that shot crappy and there are some that love- em.

Wouldn't that be cool if you could fix your hornet " 77/22 " with a trip to the Gun plumber for a new K-chamber !

Allot of the guys that love- em, drive K- hornets

Maybe that is a clue to the mystery, I'm not shure.

Norm


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## Plainsman

Tyrant, I have been thinking about the K Hornet solving the problem. It might help some, but if you neck size only, and headspace of the shoulder the case should then take care of much of the alignment problems.

It's amazing that the old model 43 Winchester I had shot as good as it did. It had a lockup system that only locked up the rear of the bolt. Of course I neck sized only, and that vastly improved the accuracy of that rifle. In other rifles I have seen little difference in neck sizing other than life of the case.


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## Tyrant

Roger that Plainsman,

I also like to neck size only but I was harshly critiszed over same statement on another forum.

I have never checked run out on sized cases to verify neck perfection.

I'm now in the experiment stage with both neck and full lenght dies. In 22-250 AI to attempt to find the K.I.S.S. soulution to my horrible inacurate neck sizing dies.

Norm


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