# are zebra mussels in state waters?



## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

Zebra mussels are they really THAT bad? seems that some of the great lakes fishing got better? what gives???


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## Ejoe (Oct 23, 2005)

Giving up on attacking bowfishing moocarp, and now trying to work your carp is good agenda this way?
This guy dont care one bit about zebra mussles, he is wasting your time, as he will use whatever you say about zebra mussles to defend carp. He is posting this nationally, like his anti bowfishing nonsense.....
http://www.chicagolandfishing.com/forum ... 174#200174

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=19338

Just hate to see anyone waste their time thinking he is really interested in zebra mussles.


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## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

Ed I am interested in zebra Mussels in fact I use a zebra mussel oil extract in my best carp bait--the reason?-- ANYWHERE you find common carp AND zebra Mussels---- Carp eat them 1st!!!

ED are you from Illinois? below is a study from your state...may be in waters where zebra Mussels and carp both reside it might suggest that less carp = more mussels??? interesting eh??? 8)

sgnis.org/publicat/papers/tucker3.pdf

Predation on zebra mussels (Dreissena polymorpha)
by common carp (Cyprinus carpio)
John K. Tucker, Frederick A. Cronin, Dirk W. Soergel
Long Term Resources Monitoring Program Pool 26
Illinois Natural History Survey
4134 Alby Street
Alton, Illinois 62002 USA
and
Charles H. Theiling
Ecological Specialists, Inc.
114 Algana Ct.
St. Peters, Missouri 63376, USA
ABSTRACT
We examined the gut contents of 31 common carp (Cyprinus
carpio) collected at Mississippi River Mile 217 in August 1995
for evidence of predation on zebra mussels (Dreissena
polymorpha). We found between 1 and 407 zebra mussel
beaks in 83.9% of the fish we examined. For all fish examined,
common carp contained 118.2 beaks per fish or about 59 zebra
mussels per fish. The survey did not indicate that larger fish
consumed more zebra mussels than smaller fish. Estimated
valve length for zebra mussels consumed ranged from 1.48 to
42.52 mm with a mean 11.79 mm (SE = 0.10 mm). We found
that larger fish tended to prey on larger zebra mussels than did
smaller fish. The general size range of zebra mussels
consumed by common carp overlapped the upper portion of the
size range of young-of-the-year zebra mussels living at the site
and the lower portion of the size range of older zebra mussels
living at the site. 
INTRODUCTION
The zebra mussel (Dreissena polymorpha) is a recent invader of the
Great Lakes and Mississippi River. These mussels attach to available hard
substrates using byssal threads (Eckroat et al. 1993). They filter large
quantities of water for the food and compete with other molluscs for space
and food. Zebra mussels can form dense aggregations on unionid mussels.

Page 2
These aggregations have led to decreased unionid density (Gillis and Mackie
1994, Nalepa 1994) or even to complete extirpation of unionid faunas
(Schloesser and Nalepa 1994). Zebra mussels may also have adverse
effects on other molluscs (Tucker 1994a) and other invertebrates (Tucker
and Camerer 1994, but see Stewart and Haynes 1994).
Despite their adverse effects on other molluscs, zebra mussels have
become an abundant potential food for several species of diving ducks in
Lake Erie (Hamilton et al. 1994) just as they are in Europe (Sta_czykowska
1977, Sta_czykowska et al. 1990). Smaller zebra mussels (shell length d8
mm) are also preyed upon by crayfish in the laboratory and possibly in
nature (Love and Savino 1993, MacIsaac 1994, Martin and Corkum 1994). A
number of fish species are known to feed on zebra mussels in Europe
including the bream, Abramis brama (Budzy_ska et al. 1956), the common
carp, Cyprinus carpio (Ivlev 1961, Stein et al. 1975), the pumpkinseed,
Lepomus gibbosus (Spataru 1967), the European roach, Rutilus rutilus
(Budzy_ska et al. 1956, Prejs 1973, Olszewski 1978, Prejs et al. 1990), and
the eel, Anguilla anguilla (De Nie 1982). Several North American fishes are
known or thought to be capable of preying on zebra mussels (French 1993). 
However, only one North American fish, the freshwater drum (Aplodinotus
grunniens), has been shown to be a significant predator on zebra mussels in
nature (French and Bur 1993).
Although common carp are known to prey on zebra mussels when other
preferred prey are unavailable (e.g., Stein et al. 1975), there is little
published information regarding routine consumption of zebra mussels by
carp in the United States. Thus, the purpose of this survey was to document
utilization of zebra mussels by the common carp.


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## Ejoe (Oct 23, 2005)

Oh Moocarp.....you forgot the last paragraph where they say that the carp eating zebra mussles has no effect on their numbers, and how the common carp destroys the waters.....post the whole story Moo, not just parts that support your pro carp BS........
http://sgnis.org/publicat/papers/tucker3.pdf

Read the whole story....more carp dont = less mussels.....they =more destroyed habitat!


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## fishless (Aug 2, 2005)

I dont mean to but in on youre guys argument here but Im thinkin any invasive species introduced to a body of water is not good. Im no biologist but I think carp are also an invasive species correct me if Im wrong but carp also wreck alot of good fisheries.


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## Ejoe (Oct 23, 2005)

Yep....and the summary of the paper mocarp pasted from, [the part he didnt include] say as much., Actually, says how the carp alter the waters, and do very little to stem the zebra mussle tide. And an increase in carp would be the worst case scenario.


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## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

IF Ed had read ALL the paper he would have realized that very little work has been done on this subject---yet---the subject was brought to light that common carp prey on zebra mussels--in my research I have found several on going studys that are looking at common carps inpact on zebra mussels--once they are complete they will be available to the general public--it seems in some waters carp ARE a limiting factor on zebra mussels and it seems by early data that in waters with very low numbers of common carp allow zebras to colonise far quicker --it takes years to get all the data--just some researchers looked ito why zebras are not a problem in their native waters---most which have more preds on mussels than we in the us have--also work is being done on drum and carp to see just how good they can be at limiting zebras--drum feed on them some but will still prey on fishes--where as carp will feed on zebras to exclustion of any other major food if zebras are available --at least thats what early data is leaning toward


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## Ejoe (Oct 23, 2005)

Read the whole paper chubby......including the last paragraph you never post.....
http://sgnis.org/publicat/papers/tucker3.pdf

From the last paragraph; "Any increase in the common carp would be an unwelcomed turn of events for fishery managers. Common carp prey on the eggs of preferred fish, and alter habitats......
"A worst case scenario of increasing common carp but little change in zebra mussle density is possible due to the zebra mussels tremendous fecundancy"
Bet that means they reproduce much faster than can be eaten.....and carp dont effect them much at all.....fighting fire with gasoline.......
Try again Moocarp! 
Now why wouldnt he include that paragraph????  
Prey on fish eggs.....something you say never happens huh Harry........

PLUS!! Read the paper, it says native freshwater Drum eat the mussels....so, thats the answer. Kill off more of the destructive invasive carp, making more room for Drum, then increase the drum population to eat more zebras!! :beer: Kill 2 invasives with one stone! :beer:


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## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

the last part is called the "opinion" and is open for interpretation also if you read the paper you would see it calls for more studies

I think I saw a couple of studies that suggested where drum will eat the zebra mussels carp actually prefer them and will feed on them exclusivley

would be interesting to see if a carp/zebra niche develops much like large mouth bass / shad

where they do not effect other fish out side of that niche--that would be interesting :wink:


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## Ande8183 (Sep 18, 2005)

Mocarp, It doesnt matter if a niche developes between the because they are both exotic species that are not native to these parts of the world. Even if there is a niche between zebra mussels and carp, they will both effect the ecosystem and indirectly affect all fish.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

MoCarp said: "I think I saw a couple of studies that suggested where drum will eat the zebra mussels carp actually prefer them and will feed on them exclusivley ".

If that is true then how do you explain this in your very first post?

"Several North American fishes are known or thought to be capable of preying on zebra mussels (French 1993).
However, only one North American fish, the freshwater drum (Aplodinotus grunniens), has been shown to be a significant predator on zebra mussels in nature (French and Bur 1993)".

Then the reference goes on to say.........

"Although common carp are known to prey on zebra mussels when other preferred prey are unavailable".

Now there is a alarm bell if I ever saw one.....What has to be depleted before the carp switches to zebra mussels...... maybe fish eggs......


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## Ejoe (Oct 23, 2005)

See Moocarp....everyone is on to your twisting things so they fit your agenda better. Maybe for the sake of carp angling....you should burn your PC before you do more harm??
And you are wrong.....there is nothing in the last paragraph that says this is an opinion. On the contrary, there is more proof for these statements than any. YOU call it opinion because you dont like what it says! :lol: :lol: 
Here are a couple more sceintific "opinions"
http://www.mcgrawwildlife.org/main.taf?p=4,5,2 
http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/s ... arpio.html

Try again Moo.....maybe you can find a link between carp and curing the bird flu.........


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## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

below is from the same study--and there are several studys ongoing that MAY evidence to be that carp over 15 pounds prefer zebras--and that in some waters they me the only means of control

"Clearly, common carp (Cyprinus carpio) are able predators on the zebramussel. Considering that common carp are numerous in the Illinois andMississippi River (Sparks and Starrett 1975), they may have, and mayalready have had, an effect on zebra mussel demographics. For instance,high common carp density in Swan Lake (Maher 1994) may in part accountfor the absence of zebra mussels from this contiguous backwater lake of the lower Illinois River (Tucker and Atwood 1995, Tucker et al. 1996)"


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## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

Gohon said:


> MoCarp said: "I think I saw a couple of studies that suggested where drum will eat the zebra mussels carp actually prefer them and will feed on them exclusivley ".
> 
> If that is true then how do you explain this in your very first post?
> 
> ...


they also say that more studies need to be done--that the intent of the study was to document they (carp)did indeed feed on zebras the rest of the study--"the non math part" is called the opinon and is subject to debate and is ment to encourage ether supporting or desenting studies


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## Ejoe (Oct 23, 2005)

Where is this opinion coming from?? The paper summerizes that common carp would do nothing to lower the numbers of zebra mussels, it say the drum is a better predator of them, and it says carp are destructive to game fish eggs, vegatation, and the habitat. Its not opinion....its the summary, its fact once again stated that carp are destructive invasive fish.
Read your own paper in whole ya goof!! :roll: :roll: 
http://sgnis.org/publicat/papers/tucker3.pdf
LAST PARAGRAPH!!


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## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

Ed in the same study it sites a IL backwater with very few zebra mussels attributed to the predation by common carp

the question would be then if you reduced the numbers of big carp would the numbers of zebra mussels explode?

kinda like the whole great lakes alwives/salmon relationship

or bass/shad

or walleye/ yellow perch


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## Ejoe (Oct 23, 2005)

READ THE PAPER!!!!
It plainly says the carp would do nothing to reduce zebra mussels because they breed too fast!!! All it would do is increase destructive, invasive common carp!! READ IT....LAST PARAGRAPH....THE ONE YOU IGNORE!!!!!!!!


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