# Looking for AR-15 to deal with coyote and mt lions/cougars



## peefyloo

I'm looking for an AR-15 type rifle. I live on 450+ acres and have a big coyote and big cat problem.

I'm going to need an AR-15 type rifle that can shoot up to 600-800 yards. Just the basic rifle, I can get a scope later. But it needs to have a stainless steel barrel because of the snow here. I don't want any rust. Also... I want something that isn't "too" expensive.

Let me know


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## Horsager

I'd look at something larger than a 223. DPMS makes a 260Rem, 308, and 300Rem Short Action Ultra Mag (SAUM). They're going to run you $1,300ish to start and go up from there.


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## peefyloo

I've heard some not so great things about DPMS in the past. Did they clean up their act?

Also, what options should i look for?


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## Jaybic

I have a DPMS .223 and its been a stellar performer always. Always feeds and will shoot 5 under a dime quite regularly if I do my part(not regularly). I guess I have never heard anything bad about them. If its good enough for Jerry Miculek(sp?) then its good enough for me I figure.

Jaybic


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## szm69

DPMS and Olympic Arms are the best!


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## coyote_buster

I would get a .270. You could get a TC encore and have .270 and .223 but I would want a faster second shot if I was in lion territory. OOPS I for got I am. There was one spotted 2 miles from me with three kittens.


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## Horsager

I've got a 16" bull .223 (Sweet 16 on their website) with a JP adjustable trigger (trigger came installed and tuned right from DPMS) that shot Ultramax 55gn soft-points into just over 1/2" for the 1st group that rifle had ever shot. Less than 15 rounds down the tube for this:










I also have an 18" 308 bull (LR 308B), again with the JP trigger from the factory. This group is with handloads, but, it'll shoot Federal Gold Medal Match ammo nearly as well.










Both rifles have been basically flawless. I've had a couple of jams with the 223, but they were due to the brass catcher I was using, without that it's worked flawlessly even in sub-zero temps. The 308 also had a few hiccups, but it was due to improperly sized brass. I though I could get away with standard 308 dies (the 223 doesn't require small-base dies), but the 308 must have a fairly tight chamber because I had a few jams and had a few cases fail to extract after being fired. A small base re-sizing die has cured this problem and the rifle functions flawlessly now.

I putchased the 223 in Jan and the 308 in Mar. Both rifles have +- 500 rounds down the tube. The 223 has become very easy to clean and I'm over 200 rounds since the last cleaning and accuracy is still excellent, 1/2" or better with my reloads. The 308 has also gotten much easier to clean, it cleans up about as easily as the 223 and goes 80-100 rounds between cleanings now before accuracy begins to wane. I have no complaints thus far, both rifles have been basically flawless save for a little "operator error". I'd have no reservations about buying another DPMS.


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## SDHandgunner

600-800 yards is a LONG POKE regardles of caliber.

I just recently purhased a DPMS Panther Bull 20 Fluted in .223 Remington. Mine has the Factory Standard Trigger in it, but the guy I purchased it from (Dedicated Technology in Bemidji Minnesota) polished the engagement surfaces prior to me picking it up. The pull is super smooth, but a little longer pull than I like. It is also a little heavier than I am used to, but you can't tell it from the way this rifle shoots. So far I have been working with 40, 50 & 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips and 55gr. Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tails. For some reason it doesn't like the 50's and they have produced the largest groups fired to date (1 1/4" for 5 shots at 100 yards from the bench). The other bullet weights are all printing 1" or less 5 shot 100 yard groups from the bench with the 55's getting really close to the 1/2" mark.










For the ranges you are talking about I think I'd call Mike at Dedicated Technology. Mike has put together and sold several of the Olympic Arms K8 MAGNUMS chambered for either the .223 WSSM, .243 WSSM or .25 WSSM Cartridges. The K8 MAGNUM is basically a Flat Top Upper with a Stainless-Steel Bull Barrel, Free Float Tube with a standard AR-15 Lower Receiver. If memory serves me correctly these WSSM Calibers can be had with 20 - 24" Barrels.

There are some other options available in the form of the 6.5mm Grendel from Alexander Arms, the 6mm AR (which is the 6mm Grendel necked down to 6mm. Both of these are basically modified 6mm PPC Brass with the shoulder moved forward somewhat. Both of these cartridges are being used in 600 yard target competition. Then again Model 1 Sales shows a 24" Flat Top Bull Barrel chambered in 6mm PPC. Yet another option would be the 6mm WOA from White Oak Armament. This is the new 6.8mm Remington SPC necked down to 6mm.

In addition to the cartridges mentioned DPMS also offers Rifles in .204 Ruger as well as .243 Winchester.

Actually there are a lot of options out there.

Larry


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## Horsager

Larry, V-max's will fix your 50gn woes. I can't explain it but the bastids seem nearly magic. I'm right at a dozen 223's tested and they all will shoot them 3/4" or better. AR's, bolt guns, doesn't seem to matter. Sako, Tikka, Remington, Winchester, Interarms mini Mark X, Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500, Kimber, DPMS and Bushmaster, off the top of my head. 26gn of H335 in LC/WCC cases with WSR primers, bullets seated to just fit an AR magazine.


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## Plainsman

SDHandgunner I'm happy you like that rifle. I just ordered the same one yesterday with the JP trigger. They say three month wait, and an extra month for flutted barrel. The one I picked up balanced nice so I went without the flutes and ordered the JP trigger and tactical grip.

Do you need a riser mount with the flattop. The fellow at Scheels said I did, but it looks like I could get buy with high rings. If I do need one I think I will order the tri-mount. What have you fellows had to purchase to mount scopes?


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## peefyloo

I've been reading about the 6.5 grendel. Whats everyones views on it compared to the .243?


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## Horsager

Plainsman, get a riser. I like a low mounted scope too, but with no drop in the stock at all, even high rings are too low for me. The ones that aren't are awful looking. Super high millets (junk!) will get you nearly there but you'll still have to mash your cheek pretty hard and those "feet" the angle-locks have are too fragile to get as tight as I like. The super high Warne rings are also useable but damned ugly. A riser and Leupold PRW's are the way to go. Even on my 308 with the built in 1" riser High PRW's aren't enough so I went to a riser on it as well.

Both AR's are much more comfortable to shoot with risers.


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## szm69

I also have a AR built by Mike Milli in Bemidji. It is chambered in .25 WSSM and is awesome!!! I tshoots so good, and it wasn't much more than buying a "off the shelf" AR.

I also agree that 600-800 yards is a long shot no matter what caliber you are shooting, but if you have the skills to do it (I don't) and a big enough scope, Mike should be able to build you a accurate enough rifle to do it.

PS. I only bought leopold high scope rings for my flattop, I didn't use a riser, it fits me, but it is personal preference.


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## peefyloo

Well I hope the Corps taught me well :sniper:


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## Jiffy

Yuck!! I don't like risers....

If I end up not putting an ACOG on mine I am going to go with these rings.

http://www.badgerordnance.com/productgroup.php?id=rings

The ultra high AR rings. They are 1.400" and are the exact same height as standard irons. And they look kool too! 8)

Welcome to the "darkside" Plainsman. It's about freaking time! :wink:


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## SDHandgunner

I have never tried any 50gr. Hornady V-Max that I can remember in any Rifle. I did use some Hornayd V-Max Bullets in a .243 a few years ago and I was not super happy the results I was able to get to them.

I think for now I am going to stick with the 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips loaded with H-4895. I have tested this load in 3 or 4 AR's now and it shot really good in all of them.

Plainsman, yes I am really liking this AR. I fought this Black Rifle Disease for a long time and finally caved in and bought one. Actually so far I think it is some of the best money I have ever spent. I am the worlds worst Off Hand Rifle Shot, but the design of this AR and the way it handles I have actually made some decent off hand shots with it over the past couple weeks.

Mike at Dedicated Technology is a very knowledgable guy when it comes to AR's. Mike has been building custom AR's for almost 15 years now and seems to know what it takes to make these guns shoot well.

Larry

Larry


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## Longrifle2506

Check out Rock River Arms. Their price range is close to that of DPMS, and they have a contract to supply rifles to the DEA. If the Feds are using them, they have to be good.

Rock River is good for the Money. HOWEVER, A GENUINE COLT IS THE ABSOLUTE BEST. ALL OTHER RIFLES ARE SIMPLY CLONES. THE ONLY ORIGINAL IS A COLT AR-15. BUSHMASTER AND ROCK RIVER PRETTY GOOD, AND WILSON COMBAT MAKES SOME SWEET AR-15s.


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## Jaybic

As far as the best ARs go, its probably a Les Baer AR. I have never shot one but I have read many reviews and hes got his ARs outshooting most bolt guns. They are real spendy but I have seen one group that has 50+shots under a dime or something crazy like that. It had a 8x32 leupold on it so the shooter should have been able to quarter the bullet holes but still, thats REALLY accurate!

SDhandgunner, I am with Horsager on the 50gr Vmax thing. I also heard God shoots Vmax bullets thru his AR. Seriously tho, They are for sure worth trying and cheaper than Noslers too. H335 and Varget both shoot very well in my DPMS although I shoot a 40gr Vmax with 26.6gr of h335 most of the time. Just my 2 pennies. :beer:

Jaybic


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## People

600 is getting to be a long poke for the 223. You can shoot 77gr SMK and get darn good accuracy. Most AR's are good. The barrel is the main thing that will ensure you will get good groups.

Do not get in to that ABC junk. Some will tell you this company is the best some will say company b is better but any of the major company's make good rifles.

600-800 yards is a LONG POKE regardless of caliber.

You just need a bigger caliber. Let me rephrase that you need a caliber set up for long range not just mid to beginning of long range.


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## wmmichael20

lions seem like a big animal to piss off and I would think I might want more than a 223 to deal with its bad attitude did you ever consider the 6.8ppc it works on the standard ar.15 lower and has quite a bit more punch and the 110 grain 270 caliber bullet should pack the punch your looking for and most of the ar manufacturers are producing one and factory ammo shouldent be to bad remington makes some and I know hornady and federal do also and with that being said you could always purchase the 223 topend and 450 bushmaster topend and have three rifles to cover all your hunting needs with only one bottom end just my thaughts .....I was contomplating the same thing myself


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## varmit b gone

I don't know about where you are, but in Wyo., the minimum caliber you can use is a 243. Personally, for what you are talking about doing, I would go with something similiar to 270, or bigger. If you are not going to keep fur from the coyotes, go with a really big caliber, like a .300 Win Mag or something. Right now we have ours dead nuts at 800. That's all we have it for, really, is to reach out there and touch something if we really need to.
:sniper: oke:


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## striped1

couple of things:

Badger rings are the best. Also try Larue Tactical for one piece base / rings for ar flattops.

.223 will hit at that range if you and yor equipment are very good, but the ballistics aren't going to be enough for proper bullet expansion.


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## Bgunit68

Gander Mountain has a big sale on .223 this week.
http://gandermountain.shoplocal.com/gan ... ID=2413694

Page 16 on the one good until June 1 (left)


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## kpj17hmr

i would go with a dpms in 338 fedrel grate round i love mine but you will need a scope to hit anything at 6-8 hundred yards fer sher


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## wmmichael20

I just got back from the gun show in kentuckey this morning and remington had a ar style rifle they are calling the r25 on display it is coming in 243 7mm-08 and 308 they aught to do the trick


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## jason_n

send the cougars my way, redheads are a big plus!!!! :lol:


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## SoDakShooter

striped1 said:


> couple of things:
> 
> Badger rings are the best. Also try Larue Tactical for one piece base / rings for ar flattops.
> 
> .223 will hit at that range if you and yor equipment are very good, but the ballistics aren't going to be enough for proper bullet expansion.


+1 on Larue I have one on my AR. The quick detach scope is very repeatable. I wouldnt take it off once I get it dialed in for 300+ yards but anything under that I am confident it will be within .25 MOA. I cant tell a difference at 100 yards. 600-800 yards is a long shot with a 223. I'd look into a 308, 22-250, 300 win mag etc.


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## varmit b gone

SoDakShooter said:


> striped1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> couple of things:
> 
> Badger rings are the best. Also try Larue Tactical for one piece base / rings for ar flattops.
> 
> .223 will hit at that range if you and yor equipment are very good, but the ballistics aren't going to be enough for proper bullet expansion.
> 
> 
> 
> 600-800 yards is a long shot with a 223. I'd look into a 308, 22-250, 300 win mag etc.
Click to expand...

I think a 22-250 is gonna be a little small also.


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## maxpress

i have a dpms sweet 16 and its great for 300yrds. its not a 450yd rifle though. i say that because of the caliber not the gun. 325ftlbs of energy isnt enough at 400 yards. 1/2 inch plywood just gets scuffed. better to go with a 270 or .308 or 30-06 in a remington pump or autoloader for fast doubles beyond 400. of course the 6.5 grendal is good if you still want an ar


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## dog gone

I live in Wyoming were we often take the shots you are talking about at coyotes useing anything from the 223, 204, 22-250,220 swift. For mountain lions we dont shoot them till you can see the whites of there eyes. If I was to shoot a mountain lion at 600-800 yards it would be with the 6.5 284.


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## willjk

You have gotta go big. 223 will get out their but ballisticaly it won't have what your looking for. DPMS is your best bet for multi caliber ar's. Something in 25 or larger calibers :jammin:


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