# Breeding Grounds



## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

What's the conditions like up there fellas? Anyone been hearing how the snow came off up there? They will be on there nests before long.


----------



## WhiteRockDecoys (Dec 29, 2009)

The weather has been good. It was 70 deg in Churchill today, mid 60's the rest of the week. They should be sitting right now, but the weather after they hatch matters more than right now. The adults can make it through just about any weather but a cold snap after the hatch can put a good dent in the juvies.


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

If thats the case lets pray for record cold after the hatch! I still don't get why we don't just go up there and start nest stomping. Politically incorrect sure, but much more effective at reducing numbers than us hunters have been.


----------



## drakespanker12 (Aug 28, 2006)

Better bring that one up to the usfws then we can just get rid of waterfowlering all together. They can manage all species like that. :withstupid:


----------



## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

Mike Kortum said:


> If thats the case lets pray for record cold after the hatch! I still don't get why we don't just go up there and start nest stomping. Politically incorrect sure, but much more effective at reducing numbers than us hunters have been.


Sorry to offend you Mr. Kortum but I'm in this snowgoose thing to have a blast and have good times with my family and friends. I hope the spring season never ends so we have a hunting opurtunity always in the spring. Can you imagine how much longer these white birds have been around before any of us and they always find a way. Every one is always worried about them eating themselves out of house and home..... I don't see it happening. So hunt on! If you want to egg stomp, start a new forum because none of us on here want to hear it. We would rather try to kill them ourselves. :thumb:


----------



## PJ (Oct 1, 2002)

Mike Kortum said:


> If thats the case lets pray for record cold after the hatch! I still don't get why we don't just go up there and start nest stomping. Politically incorrect sure, but much more effective at reducing numbers than us hunters have been.


Hippie.


----------



## Geez n Quackers (Oct 24, 2007)

Mike Kortum said:


> If thats the case lets pray for record cold after the hatch! I still don't get why we don't just go up there and start nest stomping. Politically incorrect sure, but much more effective at reducing numbers than us hunters have been.


Why don't you head on up there and do just that. Sort of an advance scouting mission. Then tell us all where the best places are to stay, eat, and how best to get there. And the cost for it all.


----------



## WhiteRockDecoys (Dec 29, 2009)

Mike Kortum said:


> If thats the case lets pray for record cold after the hatch! I still don't get why we don't just go up there and start nest stomping. Politically incorrect sure, but much more effective at reducing numbers than us hunters have been.


Stomping or anything that would not effect other species would be impossible. The colonies are so spread out, unknown or unable to get to. Its not like you can drive out and start destroying nest...this is helicopter territory. You have to take a plane to get into most of these areas as the roads connecting ended 1000's of miles south. The Helo's only can cary so many people and can only travel so far before they need fuel, even with a $1,000,000 budget they would only get into a few colonies and likely only effect a small %. The money, time, equipment and people don't exist.

Could they spray chemical weapons...sure but it would damage more than snows.


----------



## Snowline (Apr 6, 2012)

Mike Kortum said:


> If thats the case lets pray for record cold after the hatch! I still don't get why we don't just go up there and start nest stomping. Politically incorrect sure, but much more effective at reducing numbers than us hunters have been.


Who in the heck wants to see the CO come to an end. My decoy spread is only a third the size I want it to be. My wife is sick of seeing me watch Snow goose videos on Youtube. I'm working all the OT I can to get all my bills paid off so it will free up more money so I can feed this new addiction. Yeah go ahead and pray for cold temps. I'll pray God Himself pours corn out of the heavens just to feeds those juvies so they'll all be fattened up so they'll make a bigger thud as they hit the grown in my spread.


----------



## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

Snowline said:


> Mike Kortum said:
> 
> 
> > If thats the case lets pray for record cold after the hatch! I still don't get why we don't just go up there and start nest stomping. Politically incorrect sure, but much more effective at reducing numbers than us hunters have been.
> ...


Now thats what I'm talkin' about :bop: :bop:


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

You guys are messed up. The point of the CO was to hopefully reduce numbers. Not to have a permanent spring season. We have failed at reducing numbers through hunting. People say they don't see them ruining their breeding grounds, whats your take on why Salicornia, a traditionally rare (and of zero nutritional value) tundra plant is now flourishing on top of abandoned breeding sites?


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

drakespanker12 said:


> Better bring that one up to the usfws then we can just get rid of waterfowlering all together. They can manage all species like that. :withstupid:


The reaso for fall waterfowling is not to control populations. But I'm sure you already knew that.


----------



## SOTA'N'KOTA (Sep 9, 2004)

The goal of the CO is to someday not need to have a CO.

I got my fingers crossed for blizzards across the tundra right after the main hatch.

The hey day for snow geese was back when the limit was five. The bird was valued and respected. Now it's valued no greater than a carp with many hunters tossing what they kill in the ditch.

It seems like a lot of hunters want good hatches so they can have more targets at the end of their gun barrel...targets that are much less intelligent than an adult.

A lot of you don't want hunt, you just want to shoot and kill a lot.

I'd love to see a limit of five. No hunter needs to kill more than five geese a day. I hope someday we get back there but sadly it'll probably never happen.


----------



## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

SOTA'N'KOTA said:


> The goal of the CO is to someday not need to have a CO.
> 
> I got my fingers crossed for blizzards across the tundra right after the main hatch.
> 
> ...


----------



## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

fieldgeneral- dont get so excited you sound like me.


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

fieldgeneral said:


> Putting a lot of words in people's mouths..... Didn't you say "no hunter needs to kill more than five geese a day" Your a guide from Rochester, so that means you sit in a pit on the refuge line on the weekends with Premier Flight while Dean filters hunters in and out of the hot field for the day and kill 100 Honkers in a day but you see no problem with that? Mid December, snows on the ground and the geese just won't quit coming in, you boys in the pit just ain't stopping so don't preach about 5 geese a day are good enough, you've been in your share of Hero pics with rows of dead geese in front of you &$#* grin in' from ear to ear :thumb:


You agreed with some guy on this thread who wishes there was corn dumped in the breeding grounds so juvies will be fatter for no reason other than making a bigger thud when they hit the ground. You can not preach ethics to anyone.

And not to defend a guide... but the goose limit is 2 in MN, so according to your numbers 50 hunters got to go home with a goose for christmas and one for a nice sunday dinner. Thats a lot different than one group killing 100 in a day and throwing them in the ditch wouldn't you say?


----------



## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

Mike Kortum said:


> fieldgeneral said:
> 
> 
> > Putting a lot of words in people's mouths..... Didn't you say "no hunter needs to kill more than five geese a day" Your a guide from Rochester, so that means you sit in a pit on the refuge line on the weekends with Premier Flight while Dean filters hunters in and out of the hot field for the day and kill 100 Honkers in a day but you see no problem with that? Mid December, snows on the ground and the geese just won't quit coming in, you boys in the pit just ain't stopping so don't preach about 5 geese a day are good enough, you've been in your share of Hero pics with rows of dead geese in front of you &$#* grin in' from ear to ear :thumb:
> ...


Guides have multiple fields going around Rochester MN,so when one field is good they shuffle all their hunters through that one field you would be surprised to know how many birds get killed on one hunt in a day.


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

fieldgeneral said:


> Mike Kortum said:
> 
> 
> > fieldgeneral said:
> ...


That isn't breaking news. Everyone knows that. And every guide service in the nation does that type of stuff.

So let me get this straight... you are talking down to sota and kota because he has been a part of a group that kills, according to you, 100 geese in a day. So you see killing that many birds in one hunt as a bad thing correct?


----------



## snogeezmen (May 28, 2012)

SOTA'N'KOTA said:


> The goal of the CO is to someday not need to have a CO.
> 
> I got my fingers crossed for blizzards across the tundra right after the main hatch.
> 
> ...


Don't shoot more than 5 its that easy if you feel it's wrong don't do it. I don't keep walleyes over 22" ... It's my choice others do keep big fish I don't belittle them because of it it's a choice I make. Again if you feel that strong about it stop at 5 plain and simple.


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> And not to defend a guide... but the goose limit is 2 in MN, so according to your numbers 50 hunters got to go home with a goose for christmas and one for a nice sunday dinner. Thats a lot different than one group killing 100 in a day and throwing them in the ditch wouldn't you say?


The limit is more than 2 around Rochester. Last year the limit was 3 a day. Also I asked sota what guide service he worked for and he won't reply....even in a pm. There are more guides that just Premier :beer: .

Also some people want a good hatch for fall hunting up in Canada and through out the flyway. It is not just for the conservation order.

Another thing you are really forgetting about when talking about stomping breeding grounds.... IS THEY ARE NOT IN THE USA. So for the US fish and Wildlife has to talk with Canada before they are allowed to do a damn thing.....even banding and studies!

Another thing with the CO Season is now it is such big money. It is hard to turn that down for the flyway.

Finally if people think the CO has not worked one bit....they are mistaken. With the CO season and more liberal bag limits in the fall. The snow goose population has not been growing in the matter it was. It was going at such a high rate that is why they asked for the order. Now it has been stable. So the season worked and done about 75% of what they wanted. The other 25% is to lower the population. Which could start to happen. They need to do a study on how old some birds are. We know snow geese can live a long time. But with the CO season killing more birds (adults and juvies)....what is the average age of the snow goose population??? That might be a question never answered or I don't know how about getting it.


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

Chuck Smith said:


> > And not to defend a guide... but the goose limit is 2 in MN, so according to your numbers 50 hunters got to go home with a goose for christmas and one for a nice sunday dinner. Thats a lot different than one group killing 100 in a day and throwing them in the ditch wouldn't you say?
> 
> 
> The limit is more than 2 around Rochester. Last year the limit was 3 a day. Also I asked sota what guide service he worked for and he won't reply....even in a pm. There are more guides that just Premier :beer: .
> ...


Ok. So 33 guys got to take home a christmas goose, one for thanksgiving, and another for an ice fishing trip. My point is still valid.

And slowing the rate of population increase was not the goal of the CO, so it has done maybe 20% but closer to 0% of what it was intended for. So it has in fact been a failure thus far. Maybe there will be a huge crash in popularion due to old age in the nexr couple years but i doubt it. I see the crash coming from more catastrophic means.

As for this being "big money", what does that mean? Are we now choosing guide services over conservation? North Dakotans really have changed.


----------



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

A few years ago the late season was 5 birds a day in MN......


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

blhunter3 said:


> A few years ago the late season was 5 birds a day in MN......


Clearly i haven't hunted in MN for a long time. So what, now it just means 20 guys went home with 2 christmas geese, a thanksgiving bird, one for ice fishing, and another for a random winter sunday dinner. Its still each hunter walking away with 5 geese. I don't get where you guys are trying to go with all this?


----------



## Branf6don (Jun 18, 2013)

Anyone been hearing how the


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

big money...... Not guide services.

Hotels, gas stations, restaurnts, bars, grocery stores, etc. I am not saying that hunters make or break these things. But some owners are making more money than when they did prior to the spring season. How would you like your yearly income for the past 10 years or so be cut by $5000 + a year.

Then lets add in the money going to game and fish for every $40 license (depending on the state). so if 1000 out of state people come to hunt your state that is about $40,000 to the game and fish.

Now with what you are talking about the season is a bust or isn't doing what it was meant to do. You are off. The season was put into place so that the geese get pressured and don't get "fat". Because the biologists believe that the more healthy (Fat) the female geese are the more goslings they would produce. So that was the intention. I say it has worked because the population has not kept "exploding". So they were trying to stop the explosion and the exponential devestation of the tundra. It has slowed down big time because of the order. Put it this way the population of snow geese is about the same as it was when they started the Spring season. Before it was growing by something like 10% a year. I would say that is a victory.

Now what we are saying about the number of geese killed in MN.... Just saying your facts are off. BL it was never 5 geese during the late season down in the "Rochester" or SEMN Zone. But the rest of the state....yes it was 5 during the season. People had to fight tooth and nail to get it up to the limit of 3. The main people fighting against this was the guides. For the reason that was mentioned. You can cycle people in and out of a "hot field". Also less work because if you have one group for that day and you hammer your 30 geese in 30 mins. You are done for the day. At $175 a client (10) that is a nice pay day for working about 1 hour. That depends if they left the decoys out or not. Could they worked a few more hours. But still nice pay day.


----------



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I thought it was 5 through out the state in the late season, but then again I only hunted a small portion of the state when I was there.


----------



## Brotsky (Mar 4, 2009)

So we know people think guides around Rochester are hypocrites, we know someone thinks Kortum is a hippy, and we still don't know chit about the actual topic of this thread. Typical snow goose thread, you gotta love it.... :beer:


----------



## SOTA'N'KOTA (Sep 9, 2004)

blhunter3 said:


> A few years ago the late season was 5 birds a day in MN......


Never in Rochester, read your regs. The limit was 2 and jumped to 3 a few years back.

Can someone explain to me again how a late season Canada goose season in a small portion of SE MN is relevant to the topic of the CO?


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

Brotsky said:


> So we know people think guides around Rochester are hypocrites, we know someone thinks Kortum is a hippy, and we still don't know chit about the actual topic of this thread. Typical snow goose thread, you gotta love it.... :beer:


Just like i told fieldgeneral in my response to his PM to me where he was complaining about people "hijacking threads"... this is a discussion forum, discussion change and evolve as they progress. The starting subject of this thread can be answered in one google search, its not like we are going to get a first hand account from a biologist on the tundra, its going to be people regurgitating what they read in their google search.... which makes for VERY boring discussion.
.


----------



## Geez n Quackers (Oct 24, 2007)

Brotsky said:


> So we know people think guides around Rochester are hypocrites, we know someone thinks Kortum is a hippy, and we still don't know chit about the actual topic of this thread. Typical snow goose thread, you gotta love it.... :beer:


That's funny because it is so true!

Based on following the snow melt and temperatures closely over the past several weeks, it is my personal guess that the hatch on Baffin Island, South Hampton, and possibly Queen Maude will be very poor. The hatch along the coast of Hudson Bay, north of Churchill and south to James Bay may be fine.

The weather after the start of nesting may be very important and it has been looking good, but, they won't initiate nesting on top of the snow pack or in areas flooded out by late snow melt.


----------



## Geez n Quackers (Oct 24, 2007)

I apologize if anyone is upset that I hijacked the hijack to discuss the original topic. I have nothing against Minnesota guides or hippies.


----------



## tilley (Jul 28, 2011)

Mike and Kota n Sota you guys are absolutely correct in all respects. The CO is a joke and 99% of these posters are all about killing and nothing else. It is all political and has zero to do with the resource. Some of us saw this coming years ago. These same guys will scream bloody murder if the CO is ever considered to be over regardless of snow goose population. It is about me and my wishes and my guide business and my trailer and my my my. Sad situation we are in today with alot of things.


----------



## Mike Kortum (Aug 26, 2011)

tilley said:


> Mike and Kota n Sota you guys are absolutely correct in all respects. The CO is a joke and 99% of these posters are all about killing and nothing else. It is all political and has zero to do with the resource. Some of us saw this coming years ago. These same guys will scream bloody murder if the CO is ever considered to be over regardless of snow goose population. It is about me and my wishes and my guide business and my trailer and my my my. Sad situation we are in today with alot of things.


Yep. Post-market hunting days and pre-internet, one of the most universal themes in waterfowling was conservation and with that came a geniune concern for all waterfowl species. Now the concern centers around large piles of dead stuff. Its conversations like this and knowing there are "hunters" out there with the views expressed in this thread that make me hesitatant to call myself a waterfowler to people i don't know well because i do not want to be lumped into the same category as these guys.


----------



## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

exactly


----------

