# Two States Make Strides to Ease Hunting Age Restrictions



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Pretty cool ideas coming from other states.

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Two States Make Strides to Ease Hunting Age Restrictions

(Columbus) - Two bills that will make it easier for youngsters to become
involved in hunting advanced today in state legislatures. The bills are
part of the Families Afield campaign, established by a partnership of
sportsmen's organizations to aid in the recruitment of new hunters.

Ohio HB 296, a bill that creates an apprentice hunting license, was today
approved 89 to 3 by the House of Representatives. The bill's sponsor,
Rep. Stephen Buehrer, R-Delta, introduced the legislation to allow
licensed, mentor hunters to take apprentice hunters into the field prior
to the completion of hunter education certification.

"The progress of this bill is important for all hunters," said Tony
Celebrezze, director of state services for the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance
(USSA). "The more hunters in the field, young or old, the better the
future for hunting and conservation in Ohio."

Families Afield legislation also advanced in Wisconsin today. Rep. Scott
Gunderson, R-Waterford, the chairman of the Assembly Natural Resources
Committee, amended AB 586 to create an apprentice hunter program for those
8 years of age and older. In the original bill, the apprentice program
was only available to those 10 years of age or older. The committee
approved the bill, 12 to 2. A floor vote is expected as early as
Thursday.

Both bills are part of the Families Afield program. The USSA, along with
the National Wild Turkey Federation and the National Shooting Sports
Foundation introduced Families Afield in an effort to stem the tide of
hunters lost to other interests and increase hunter recruitment throughout
the country.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm not sure I follow what these programs are about, especially the one in Ohio. I fully understand, sort of, the need today to create a cut off age for a youth to hunt with a firearm unaccompanied by an adult. But it appears on the surface that Ohio doesn't permit a child to accompany their parent into the field to hunt until a certain age. Is that the case? If it is, then Ohio is the one that is putting up road blocks that curtail future hunters that they now say they want to change. 
Why should the state determine that a father can't take his 7 year old son into a duck blind with him or allow him to tag along on a quail or dove shoot. What am I not understanding? Dropping the age for a hunter safety program such as Wisconsin is doing is fine but this use of the term apprentice hunter sounds more like a method to increase revenue than anything else.
Maybe it is just my age showing but my teacher was my father, not the state.


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## fishless (Aug 2, 2005)

I think anything we can do to allow are kids to hunt earlier is good


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

I agree with Fishless

My Grandson is 5 and we have had him out with us (unarmed) many times this season. He loves to blow the calls and laughs when they make a squawk. He has been a real trooper on some upland hunts this fall also.

IMO you need to get them started in the outdoors before they get into video games and cheese pops.

Kudos go to these programs, they are doing something instead of nothing.

Bob


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> My Grandson is 5 and we have had him out with us (unarmed) many times this season. He loves to blow the calls and laughs when they make a squawk. He has been a real trooper on some upland hunts this fall also.
> 
> IMO you need to get them started in the outdoors before they get into video games and cheese pops.
> 
> Kudos go to these programs, they are doing something instead of nothing.


I agree Bob............. any program like you said is good for our youth when it comes to outdoor sports. But that is not my point. My point is a state like Ohio will not allow your grandson to sit in a deer blind with you and harvest a deer at age 12. He has to be 13 years old. A state like Michigan he has to be 14 years old. Don't you think you would know better than the state at what age you grandson is capable of being in the blind shooting with you? Like I said on the surface these programs look good but to me the states created the problem to start with. What are they going to tell you next, what caliber the boy may shoot????

Here is another quote from the same article (I think) that Chris posted.

"It was obvious that by making the opportunity to hunt so difficult, we're preventing potential hunters from trying the sport," said Bud Pidgeon, USSA president. "There are so many activities available to our youth today, by the time they can legally hunt, they're interested in other things and we've lost them."

Well.... at least they realize they screwed up. Why don't they just remove the age restriction and go with a simple hunter safety education course and require the youth be with a adult up to a certain age.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

G

I fully agree with you on knowing when the time and age are appropriate to harvest the wildlife BUT, (you had to know a but was coming ) Sportsmen are not all clones that look at the portrait and see the same thing. My thoughts are that kids today grow up at a rate that is un parrelled in history. If we can take a youngster out and teach, teach and teach some more the result is going to be a safer and more rewarding experience overall. And the child will still be able to remain a child. One 7 year old may be mature enough to accept the vast responsibility that will be required of him/her while another is not. setting a minimum age IMO is not a negative. Many of the kids I have hunted with enjoy shooting pop cans with a bb gun almost as much as being in the field and being treated like one of the big guys.

I understand what you are saying, I can also see the need for a minimum age.

Take Care

Bob


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

I think having age limits are extemely important. Bob is correct. As a shooting instructor we have seen many times where one 10 year old is more mature than even a 13 year old in terms of being safe and ready for hunting opportunities in the field. Especially when we are talking about high powered rifles.

I know every Dad wants to see his children succeed in the field, but sometimes they aren't good in determining whether they are mature enough (whether 10 or 16) to handle the situation.

I am not sure where, but didn't we just have a post on here about a MN man who was shot by his 13 year old son because his son thought he was an approaching bear???

Maturity is the issue when it comes to putting youth in the field.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> I think having age limits are extemely important


Important for what? For when a youth can go into the field by themselves with a firearm? No argument here.......... I'm all for that. Important as to when the child can sit inches from me in a blind and shoot a deer? Absolutely not. That should be the parents decision and not the state. You might as well just sign the kid over to the state at birth if you want them to raise them. It doesn't take a village to raise a child, it takes a parent. My daughters were both 11 when they took their first deer, with me, in the same blind. I didn't need the state to make that decision for me. People that want to sit back and allow the state to control their lives are going to wake up someday and find out the state controls their lives and then it will be to late. Legal age to buy a firearm, legal age to purchase a license, legal age to hunt unsupervised, safety requirements of hunting and license............... all these are just fine but when they put laws on the books that say you can not make the decision as a parent, as to when they can pull the trigger on large game while under the supervision of yourself or a adult......... and and you willingly accept that, then you are setting yourself up for future disaster. I can't make it any more clear than that.....I'm for age restriction in certain area's but not for the state to tell me when my child or grandchild is allowed to accompany me into the field. I suspect a lot of people on this board are unknowingly breaking their state laws when they take their kids hunting with them. Think about it.

Don't remember a 13 year old shooting his father..... do remember a father shooting his son while swinging on birds and another father that shot his 14 year old with a muzzle loader.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Gohon: this is not a state controlling you issue. this is about safety. Yeah, you might sit inches away from your kid, but will the next father? I don't want to have to worry about that and many others don't either.

My son could drive a car at age 12 and could probably drink alcohol too, but you don't see me wanting to lower the age limit do you? No, because of safety and concerns.

Yep, we had two terrible tragedies that happened this fall, so why lower the age limit and increase the percentage of accidents that MAY happen. It is no different than some states allowing 16 to drive and some 18. I bet the percentage of 16 years old having accidents are higher than 18. It is maturity issue.

High powered rifles are a different animal. Structured shooting classes with high powered rifles, I would encourage 10 and 11 year olds to participate, but not in the field.

As a shooting instructor and someone who has worked in the youth development field for over 7 years, you won't change my mind.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

"as a 13-year-old boy appears to be responsible for the hunting-related death of his dad. 36-year-old John Edward Nelson is the third hunting-related death in Minnesota this season. The Sheriff has determined that the death is an accident, caused when Nelson's son mistook him for an approaching bear. Nelson had, for whatever reason, let his son go hunting at 6am, telling him he'd be around at noon. Instead, Nelson approached the stand at 6am; the boy startled awake, got scared by the shine in his father's eye, and opened fire."


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Live2hunt, if the father is not going to supervise and control his child at 12 years old then what makes you think he will do a better job at 13 years old just because the state now says it is okay. That same father and child will still be in the field when the state sanctions it and you are in just as much danger then as the year before. The government cannot magically come up with a number that turns every kid into a responsible young adult. Yes it is all about control. The state created the problem about fewer youths in the field, now they want to throw out a bone and you will accept it and say thank you. I'm not trying to change your mind or anyone else's. Thank God I live in a state that allows me to decide when to take my Granddaughter hunting with me. The state still controls the age she can hunt unaccompanied and that is fine. The state still controls the age she needs a hunting licenses and that is fine. The state still controls the age she needs hunter safety courses and that is fine. But at least the state allows me to take her into the field hunting and to take game if she is surprised by me or a adult and that is my point. Ohio does not......... does your state?

As to the story of the boy who shot his father.......... that has nothing to do with my opinion or the point I was making. They boy was out hunting by himself without adult supervision which I said I am for. His father was not supervising him. Apples to oranges........... Not only that but not a year goes by that there isn't a couple stories of adults shooting adults with the excuse they thought they were deer, rabbit, field mouse or something else.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here is something to chew on. The same group (USSA) that praised the Ohio and Wisconsin bill were also part of the below excerpt from a recent survey. Pretty much follows along with my opinion. You can read the full article here......

http://www.outdoors.net/site/features/f ... earchTerm+

"A new report on youth hunting criticizes minimum hunting age limits and "rigid hunter education requirements" in several states as being chief deterrents to recruitment of new hunters.

Funded by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) and compiled by the US Sportsmen's Alliance (USSA) with the help of Silvertip Productions, the Youth Hunting Report notes that there is a downside to hunting regulations in states that restrict youth participation. There are 20 states that restrict youth participation by such means as setting a minimum age limit that typically affects youths under age 13. USSA also noted that "rigid hunter education requirements" also play a part.

USSA's Rob Sexton told Gun Week that the "real crux" of the report "has to do with just barriers to youth hunting." He said the biggest of those barriers is the minimum age restriction.

Sexton did not mince words about what was discovered in the course of researching this report. He said much of what is in the report will "throw cold water on people we (the hunting community) claim we need to recruit so badly." He was referring to youngsters who are not becoming hunters because of the barriers.

"By making the opportunity to hunt so difficult, we're taking potential hunters out of the game and by the time they can legally hunt, they're interested in other activities," lamented NSSF President Doug Painter in a prepared statement.

According to USSA, the research data "also shows that youngsters are less likely to take up hunting in states that have the most restrictive requirements for youth participation. However, states that removed barriers to youth hunting have a much higher youth recruitment rate."


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Gohon: I completely agree. getting youth interested in the outdoors and shooting at an earlier age is the "hook" that will keep them involved.

In ND youth can be out shooting all the upland and waterfowl they want, plus shoot a deer with a bow at ages 10,11, 12 and up. But you have to be 14 years of age to shoot a deer with a rifle. This is in MHO a correct age for youth with high powered rifles. As I stated above, rifles are just a different animal and maturity is an issue when it comes down to it.

Now if you could guarantee that every Dad was going to sit next to kid for the rifle season, then I am all for lowering the age on deer hunting in ND with a rifle. As far as I am concerned, the state is doing the right thing by keeping the deer rifle age at 14.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Gohon, does it say anywhere in the article or the bill that children younger than 8 cannot absolutely in no way shape or form be out with their father or gaurdian during hunting season, whether it's in the field, truck, blind, etc? Unless I missed something, I don't think it does. And, if it does imply/state that, will it then be illegal? It appears to me that this new legislation is not making it illegal to do what others like Bob or you are doing, by taking younger kids with (unarmed).

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, and if I am, someone please correct me.

Now, is this new wave of legislation suggesting that these kids age 8 and up will be allowed to carry a gun and hunt?


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Also, here's the article that was mentioned earlier about the 13 year old boy who shot his father.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18890&highlight=posted


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Lvn2Hnt: thanks for finding the article. I couldn't locate it.

If we are talking about youth unarmed in the field, then by all means, it should be under the parents discretion. I remember laying under a gunny sack at 5 and 6 years of age while my father shot ducks in a field. I thought it was the greatest thing in the world.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

live2hunt> I had originally posted the article so I had a pretty good idea where it was at :lol:

I agree that the decision of unarmed children out in the field is most definitely a parental decision. If I hadn't been out with my parents at a young age, I don't know if I would have truly valued hunting as much as I do.

Now, giving kids guns at age 8, 9, heck I worry about some 16 year olds....hmmmm That's why I really don't think this proposed legislation is putting guns in the hands of kids. I also don't think that it's saying you can't bring children with unless they're 8.

But, my question then is: If they are making a law that children 8> can be out with a mentor hunter w/o carrying a gun, what is the purpose of the law? Are they trying to make legal what is already legal and being practiced? Or is it illegal in those states for children to even accompany their parents in the field?

I must be missing something or not reading the post right.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

I will admit after reading the article, I was a bit perplexed as well. Armed and un-armed is comparing apples to eggs. If a state is saying I can't take my kid un-armed into the field until a certain age, then I would have BIG problems with that. I think it is important that kids are out as early as possible. I am not saying make a 5 year old sit all day in December for a goose hunt, but having them come in the early duck season when the weather is nice. By all means. That is some great bonding time.

I am now 32 years old and have never missed a pheasant opener with my old man. Not many can lay claim to that. My buddies say that is incredible. We bonded at a young age. Hunting kept me from getting into terrible things. I was too busy hanging out with my best friend, Dad. Early in those years, I got carry a BB gun until I was old enough to carry a shotgun.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Lvn2Hnt, I was not addressing the proposed bills or the article itself but existing laws already on the books in some of these states. The proposed laws, though sounding like good intentions are trying to ease restrictions these very same states have gone overboard on, which in turn is what is causing the problem of lower youth retention in the hunting sports. The link I posted addresses that very problem. My complaint is the laws that restrict a young person form hunting even when accompanied by a supervising adult. Here is a example..........

"COLUMBUS, Ohio - Michigan resident Kevin Butts, an active hunter and conservation-minded sportsmen, travels more than five hours to neighboring Ohio to hunt with his son.

If not for these father/son hunting trips, 9-year-old Kalvin would be unable to hunt until age 14, Michigan's legal age to hunt big game with a firearm. Among other states, Michigan has one of the most stringent youth hunting age requirements and the lowest new hunter recruitment rate in the nation.

"I like sitting in my tree stand and talking with my dad and learning about the woods and hearing different animals," said Kalvin, who has harvested deer and wild turkeys in Ohio. "I like deer hunting the best because we can get more meat out of them."

Now here is a nine year old, apparently under supervision by his father and apparently well taught in safety and firearms but is being told he must wait 5 more years by his home state to hunt next to his Dad. I think it is wrong............. I would have to admit that this boy is not your average 9 year old and there are certainly many 9 year old kids that could not meet his level but is it right to penalize him after his father has taught him well and will be sitting in the tree stand with him.


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## wirehairman (Oct 31, 2005)

In Montana, a kid can hunt at 12 after completing a hunters' safety course. The state also gives them their first sportsman license combo for free (which basically covers everything that walks, crawls, or flies). However, a kid has to be accompanied by an adult gaurdian while hunting until the age of 14.

I don't think these requirements are too stringent, and a kid's 12th birthday is almost a right of passage here. It must not be that bad because I read somewhere the other day that Montana has the highest percentage of hunters per capita in the nation (I'm looking for the link now).


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Here's something new from Wisconsin:

Families Afield Bill Passes Assembly in Wisconsin

(Madison) - Wisconsin residents who wish to take up hunting are one step
closer to an apprentice hunter program that will ease restrictions that
may have otherwise kept them from getting started in the sport.

Yesterday, the Wisconsin Assembly passed AB 586 by a vote of 74-19. The
bill, sponsored by Rep. Scott Gunderson, R-Waterford, originally created
an apprentice hunter program for hunters ages 10 years and older. He
later amended the bill to lower that age to 8 years and older, giving
parents more control over when a young person starts hunting.

The bill will now go to the Senate for consideration.
"The success of this Families Afield legislation is being made possible by
the dedication of Speaker John Gard, Natural Resources Committee Chairman
Scott Gunderson as well as Representative Scott Suder," said U.S.
Sportsmen's Alliance (USSA) Vice President for Government Affairs Rob Sexton. 
"These legislators understand the importance of hunting in Wisconsin and
are doing their part to safeguard its future."

Families Afield is part of a national effort by the USSA, National
Shooting Sports Foundation and National Wild Turkey Federation to bring
new hunters into the sport. Studies show that youngsters are less likely
to take up hunting in states that have more restrictive requirements for
youth participation. However, states that have removed barriers to youth
hunting have a much higher youth recruitment rate.

In Wisconsin, the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance is working with a coalition of
sportsmen's organizations that includes the state chapter of the National
Wild Turkey Federation, Wisconsin Bear Hunters, Wisconsin Chapters of SCI
and the National Rifle Association.

For further information about the Families Afield program, call Rob Sexton
of the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance at (614) 888-4868, Tammy Sapp of the
National Wild Turkey Federation at (800) THE-NWTF; Steve Wagner of the
National Shooting Sports Foundation at (203) 426-1320.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Looks like ND is looking to lower ages too:

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/13431649.htm


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## ammoman (Dec 19, 2005)

to young is not good even under supervision


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> to young is not good even under supervision


That is true...... but the question is who is best qualified to make that decision?

This got me to thinking and I was wondering if most of you remember at what age you shot your first game with rifle or shotgun. And at what age did you go hunting for the first time with no adult supervision.

Myself, well my Dad started teaching me shooting and just plinking at about 8 years old. Then at 10 Dad bought me a single shot 22lr for Christmas and started taking me into the field where I shot my first rabbit. First time I went hunting without an adult was 12 years old. Three very good friends and myself use to carry or Dads single shot shotguns to school most days and stand them behind the classroom door until school was out and then we would go rabbit or squirrel hunting before going home. Can't do that today but back then no one thought anything about it. Down at McNabbs grocery store (only one in town) we could buy a low brass 12 gauge shell for a nickel. If we picked up enough discarded pop bottle along the highway we could get 4 or 5 shells each for a hunt. Sometimes the good old days really were the good old days.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Dad started me with a BB gun at age 8 and got to shoot a 22 at gophers when we visited my grandparents and Dad needed an excuse to get away from the in-laws for a little while.

shot my first grouse at 10 with a single shot 20ga.

first goose, duck, partridge, and pheasant at age 11.

First deer at 14. I turned 14 just after the deer opener and was jealous as -ell that many of the other classmates got to hunt deer a year before me. Of the 8 classmates that hunted deer before me, none hunted birds and I can think of only 1 that still hunts today and is a female.

Now it isn't a hobby anymore. It is my drug, my obession.

You are right Gohon. Miss the good ole days. I remember butchering 50 or so chickens in the back yard every July when we lived in town. They would arrest me if I did that now.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I to had a bb gun as a kid. Got pretty good at picking off sparrows and those little plastic army men sitting on a sand hill behind the house. Then one day a cat belonging to an old woman who lived next door came strolling by. Walking away with it's tail sticking straight up in the air the cat presented a perfect little round hole just at the base of the tail. It was to much temptation and with steady aim I squeezed off a shot. Bulls eye&#8230;&#8230;.. To this day I swear the scream could be heard 15 miles away and the earth shook. Needless to say Dad set my butt on fire and put the BB gun in the closet for a month. About three months later&#8230;.. there it was again, almost daring me and a couple of my little play mates were with me. None of them believed me when I said it was possible for a cat to jump 20 feet straight up in the air.

My pride was hurt and my honor was at stake. I just couldn't allow them to go away not believing me, so history repeated itself and&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. well, I blamed that one on my little brother but I think the fact he was only 3 years old and didn't have a BB gun was the main reason Dad didn't buy it. Lost the gun for two months that time.


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