# Attn .223



## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

went to scheels today to purchase some winchester .223 shells and the guy incharge of the ammo section told me that .223 shells are going to be hard to come by! Apparently there is a shortage in Iraq and sporting good stores are having a hard time ordering any. Just a heads up to all you that shoot .223 shells! I checked 4 different stores tonight and they all said the same thing. I even had a buddy check in St. Cloud and they were all out of winchesters and had very few left of any brand.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

Do not believe every thing you hear from Scheels. Most manufactures only make one or a few batches of a certain type per year. Most manufactures only make one type once per year as it takes a while to set everything up to make those casings. Loaded ammo of certain types are harder to come by as it is hard to say what will be the flavor of the month.

It is a good idea to have plenty of ammo on hand as what good is your several hundred dollar club with out ammo.

The sad fact is all ammo prices have gone up to a point where the happy times are long gone. Heck only a year ago 223 could be had for about 16 cents per shot. Heck now wolf 7.62X39 is almost that much. Darn Venezuela for re-equipping.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

For 223 think Ultramax or Black Hills. They do runs on a much more consistant basis.


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

that scheels guy is a moron. i quite assure you that the army isnt hording civy ammo. the military uses federal lake city ammo almost exclusively. and they only use fmj ammo exept for a few ocassions, so what good would a few hundred thousand rounds of 55gr vmax's do em.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

There is a fixed amount of 223 brass produced and a fixed amount of production capacity. With rifle ammo the component bullets are rarely the culprit for short supply (with the exceptoin of some premium bullets), it's generally a run of brass that's short. The poster above who stated that ammo is created in runs, and only a couple times each year is correct. It's entirely possible that retail stores can't order any Federal (American Eagle) UMC, or Winchester bulk 223's as they may not have been run in a while. In times of need all of these manufacturers can, have, and do run ammo for the military as well. Or they'll run components under a military contract and change their headstamp, the military contract likely pays better than producing the bulk ammo we buy in the store. There are times when powder gets to be in short supply as well. 748 and or blc(2) in particular as they can be loaded into 223's and 308's.

Ultramax and Black Hills ammo is made from empty military casings. Occasionally you find Federal, Winchester, and Remington brass mixed in, and it's been happening more lately. I know that when I ran a Scheels ammo shop that there were times I couldn't get a particular run of something even from ultramax ordering directly. Same for Federal and Winchester. There's lots of .224cal manufacturing capacity being eaten up making FMJ's as well, possibly creating shortages of our favorite game/varmint bullets as well.



> that scheels guy is a moron. i quite assure you that the army isnt hording civy ammo. the military uses federal lake city ammo almost exclusively. and they only use fmj ammo exept for a few ocassions, so what good would a few hundred thousand rounds of 55gr vmax's do em.


You can say anyting you want, but unless you're actually working in a gun/ammo shop doing the ordreing, or have done it in the recent past you really have no idea.

There is no giant warehouse somewhere loaded with all the things everyone wants, just waiting for retailers to order it. Items on backorder, or stated to be unavailable very likely are. Salespeople get nothing out of telling you somthing is unavailable when that's not the case, especially those who work on commission. We in ND, SD, MN are quite spoiled when it comes to availability of sporting goods. The retailers as a whole do such a good job of having almost everything we need almost all the time that we get very dissappointed when they don't have what we want when we want it.


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

Levi and i can only believe what they tell us. You can rip on scheels all you want but they didn't come across the money to build the world largest sporting goods store in fargo by lying to there customers. The three sporting goods stores that i stopped at in st. cloud were gander mountain, sportsmans warehouse, and Scheels. They all gave me the same reason. So when i have three hunting department all telling me that same thing its not hard to believe them. When the military needs ammo there is nothing anybody can do. They need the casings and not the bullets. So when your favorite Manufactuer and load are a big source for the military they are going to put there bullets in the .223 casing that are being produced. They can only tell you what they are told.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

This may be true and then it may not. But with some of the BS I have heard from people working at Scheels I don't believe a thing they say. There is a new guy at the Bismarck store that actually knows something about guns and reloading. The rest of them haven't a clue. Of course one told me I couldn't reload 22 Hornet because it was a rim fire. Another told XDEANO that VihtaVuori powder was terrible and that's why they don't carry it and the list goes on. It's always best to do your own research.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

For the last year and a half I can not find Wolf 7.62X39 in 154 grain soft points. I do have some brass but have not reloaded for this caliber; yet. If any one ever notices any at a store, please give me a heads up. Thanks !!!


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

The reason that wolf is in shorter supply is the great country of Venezuela is re-equipping with Russian guns. We are still getting some ammo from Russia but almost all of it is ammo that did not quite make the grade for Government contracts. One other reason we are getting less 7.62X39 is price. Granted we will always buy the stuff until it is cheaper to road your own or buy US ammo.
The Gov has bought foreign ammo to meet the needs of the Armed forces. In Recruit training I used TZZ (IMI) ammo. The rest of the time I was in it was TZZ or LC ammo. Now we use a lot of foreign ammo to cut down on shipping costs. Many countries are making M855 spec ammo for our troops. I am sure many companies are making brass for gov contracts. I have never had any problems buying 223 casings here recently.

As far as Scheels goes there are some good workers and some that are not worth a Bic pen. I was once told that 30rd mags were illegal. This was during the time you could not make any new ones but what was out there was still legal to have.

Roomers are every where it is truly amazing how one will start and it will never go away.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

People said:


> Roomers are every where it is truly amazing how one will start and it will never go away.


Isn't that the truth! Someone hears something and repeats it like a parrot without looking into it and it just won't die. lol


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Yep, VihtaVuori powder is crap alright. dumba$$. The other reason was because of insurance, it was to explosive. dahh stupid it's powder, it's going to be explosive. No difference between that and the other 100 cans you have in the back. It mistifies me as to how stupid they must be to think that we believe that. I'd look in to this before believing the BS. 
xdeano


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## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

Longshot-

I was just trying to give a heads up to people who shoot .223 shells. I was told by some that actually deals with the ordering of ammuniton! I didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch! If you you know so much why don't you work at scheels and show them how its done!


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I'll speak for a few people. simply put, why get payed 75% less money to work with monkeys. Longshot is a very knowlegable and credable source.

Thank you for the heads up by the way. 
xdeano


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I'll speak for a few people. simply put, why get payed 75% less money to work with monkeys. Longshot is a very knowlegable and credable source.

Thank you for the heads up by the way. 
xdeano


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

neb_bo said:


> that scheels guy is a moron. i quite assure you that the army isnt hording civy ammo. the military uses federal lake city ammo almost exclusively. and they only use fmj ammo exept for a few ocassions, so what good would a few hundred thousand rounds of 55gr vmax's do em.


I would agree that the Scheels guy was likely a moron. One day I was in there and overheard a guy in the ammo dept. telling a customer that he should not use hollow point rifle bullets because the hollow point deflected air and caused them to be inaccurate. Apparently he had never heard of Sierra MATCHkings and similar match bullets, all hollow points.

I would not believe anything an employee of Scheels told me.

As far as the military using Lake City ammo exclusively, ain't true. Many times I have ordered .223 ammo for the PD from Black hills and have been told that it would be backordered because they were filling a mil order. There are a number of ammo manufacturers around the country that have mil contracts.

9 times out of 10 the guy behind the counter is regurgitating crap someone else told him, or is just plain guessing, without bothering to check facts in either case.

LeviM

Longshot could show them at Scheels how it should be done, but they are too arrogant to take any advice from mere sportsmen.

huntin1


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

LeviM

I couldn't handle the pay cut. Besides that, I am a sick individual that can't walk into a sporting goods store without buying multiple items. My wife claims it's a sickness I prefer to call it a trait deeply rooted in my DNA. :lol:


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

horsager-you seem to know more than me on the subject, so maybe i just made an *** of myself, however when i was in the military i shot thousands of rounds of 556 from dozens of lots, and didnt see anythyng but lc headstamps. i could believe the manufacturers changing headstamps, but why would that be of importance to the military is beyond me. i also understand that the armys long range marksmanship program does contract black hills for there match ammo.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Just remember guys that just because you run into a couple idiots at a certain store doesn't mean ALL the people working at those stores are idiots. I ran into and met A LOT on knowledgeable people that work at Scheels. I have a friend that use to work there that is probably one of the most knowledgeable people I know when it comes to firearms and ammo. :wink: I also know a guy here in Fargo that use to be in STA and on MSG duty in the Corps. His first name is Scott and he knows his "bleep". I'd put his last name but I'm not so sure he wants me to. You can't miss him, tall bald guy about mid 30's. :beer:


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## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

Thats the guy I talk too Jiffy!!


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

I'm sure there has to be a good reason then. I'm not sure how all the buying and selling of ammo goes. All I know is that he is always pretty good about information. Maybe I'll have to ask him. Or better yet, have him come on here and explain. I'm thinking he probably knows more than we do.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Just thought i'd add this:
STA "Surveillance and Target Acquisition"
MSG "Marine Corp. Security Guard"

Scott is a pretty nice guy.

xdeano


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

OK, so maybe I should have said that I wouldn't believe what "most" employee's of Scheels tell me.

As already stated, there are good and bad anywhere you go.

Perhaps a better statement still would be, don't rely 100% on what someone else tells you, do your own research.

And Scheels did give me a hell of a deal on that new spotter I bought in Dec.  8)

huntin1


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