# Moving to Minnesota



## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

I'm looking for some advice. I found a pretty good job in Minnesota. I currently live in SE ND. I am seriously considering leaving what has been my home town for 32 years and moving to MN to take this job. It will be a similar job to what i have now with better hours and hopefully better pay. My wife is currently looking as well.

What i am wondering is what are the good/bad things about MN that would prevent someone or encourage someone to move there. The area is within about an hour of Fargo.

obvious positives are the 10k lakes right? I have fished MN the last few years along with ND and its not too bad. It's no Devils Lake, but it works for me.

what are some of the negatives? State income taxes from what i hear are much higher. i tried searching to see what ND is VS MN but got very mixed answers from different websites. From what i have seen in doing some home searches is that the housing market is much better. i can get into a nice home with acre(s) of land for under 200k which is pretty much unheard of in SE ND unless it's a dump. not to mention the property taxes on the homes i have found are much lower as well.

what are some other negatives? this is a big step in life for me. i have been at my current job for over 11 years. Starting over seems scary but this looks to be a very good opportunity for me and a chance to move up in the world. With it being a big step and a big decision for myself, my wife, and my 1 year old son I want to make sure i do the right thing.

So tell me folks, what would keep you from moving to MN?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

I'm looking forward to the replies you get myself. Might want to ask a tax firm to get the hard data on taxes. For a small fee it would be money well spent. A friend from Fargo about your age made the move with his family to Bemidji and wished he'd gone sooner.


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

Yeah I'm waiting for some serious bashing. I used to complain about the blue platers but after having a camper in the DL area for the last 2 summers I know how much I like the state. All government aside the state itself is pretty nice


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## 1lessdog (Feb 4, 2004)

I moved out of N.D. about 5yrs ago. Having spent over 45 yrs in N.D. I don't mind it here, the fishing is good. But if you don't know somebody the hunting is not very good. All the public land I have found is swamped by other hunters. And havnt found anyone that wants to share there private land.

Good luck in your new journey.


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

That is to be expected with the hunting land. maybe that's why so many "blue platers" come to ND to hunt. 
i would like to find some fields or ponds to get some ducks/geese out of close to home over there, but i have full intentions on paying the 100 bucks to come back to ND and hunt my hometown fields.


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## jtillman (Oct 31, 2005)

Spent the first 25 yrs of my life in ND, the last 11+ in MN....about 45 miles out of Fargo.

From a fishing/hunting/outdoors perspective: Fishing I think is a wash....but you need to _*change *_your expectations. Comparing DL to the typical smaller MN lake isn't going to do anything for you. However, with the crap-loads of smaller lakes, you can fish every day in every wind condition and still catch fish. May not always be able to target walleye....but you'll always have options. I have found a new fond joy of fishing for pannies & bass than I ever thought I would.

Hunting...again, you need to change your expectations. Private land access is tough for decent land. With the exception of bow hunting, I have primarily given up on hunting in MN. Some of that is because of good land access, most of it is because most of my hunting 'family' still hunts mostly in ND, and that's where I choose to spend my time & money at.

Outdoors in general, I think MN has way more to offer than ND. Hiking/biking/ATV trails, different types of nature and environments ...you have way more options in MN. And if you are looking about an hour from Fargo, and your username is any indication of your job, I have an idea of where and what you're looking at (Z in FF?) If so, message me.

Taxes--I really don't take the time to compare as it often just ****** a person off. When I first moved to MN, taxes overall where a wash for me. Yes, my income taxes are higher, but property taxes are lower (what I personally experienced). I haven't compared for quite a number of years now, but I know the town I live in now is pretty high in property taxes, but still quite a bit less than a comparative home in the Fargo area.

Good luck on your decision.


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## Sam I am (Jan 16, 2011)

Here's my opinion...I grew up in lake country in MN, left for WI to attend college, joined the Navy left for 10 years came back to Fargo in 08.

State Income taxes are about 6% more in MN. But my property taxes in Fargo are [email protected]$king ridiculous. I've lived in CA, VA, FL and TX and I've NEVER seen property taxes like Fargo. It's shameful. So, disregard the taxes unless you're going to be making more than $150,000. Seriously, it won't make a material difference unless you're a big earner. Your decrease in property taxe will offset the increased income tax.

There will be more opportunity for your kids in scholastic activities (i.e. sports) in small town MN. Sports in Fargo? Specialize early. Kinda sucks, but that's life. The schools in Fargo and West Fargo are really crowded...North Fargo...kind full, but not like South or West Fargo.

Fishing: if you live in Fargo, you're still at least an hour from anywhere you might want to fish. Same for hunting. You have to get at least an hour west from Fargo to find land you can hunt. MN is only about a half an hour...it's there, just look harder.

Hunting: Waterfowl is much better in ND. Can't dispute it, but MN has gotten better. If you fish though, forget about ducks...after the Labor Day weekend, all the Fargo lake rats vacate the water and fisherman own it. The fishing just gets better and better... throw in the occasional trip to Devils Lake and you're going to be up to eyeballs in Walleye.

Bow Hunting: You won't find a piece to hunt in ND within 50 miles of the Red River in ND. In MN, there is a lot more terrain conducive to hunting...keep asking, someone will let you on. But quite honestly, spend the money and go to Iowa every four years...you'll no longer give a rip about killing deer anywhere else, MN or ND.

Like I said, I live in Fargo, but am trying to get my wife to move to Detroit Lakes. I'd gladly drive the hour to get to work each day...and some days I'm going the other way due to meetings. So, it wouldn't be all the time. Don't overlook some of the small towns in the area or rural living in all points between. Just make sure you get out off the prairie and into the MN hills and lakes.

Winter: if you like to snowmobile or ice fish... MN. Period. The end. If you live in Fargo, you're driving to do any of those things. If you're driving to Devils Lake, leave a little earlier.

Lastly, if you live in Fargo, you're automatically an ******* to everyone who isn't from Fargo. Fact. I live in Fargo. Western ND hates Eastern ND, but everyone hates Fargo...even if you're from Eastern ND. Why? Obviously everyone in Fargo is a fat-cat sodbuster who pays someone to plant corn or sugar beets and then cashes checks for a living...all of us. Even those of us who couldn't tell a sugar beet from a potato. And even if you're not that guy and you tell people you're not that guy, it won't matter, because in their mind, even if you're not that guy, you're undoubtedly related to someone who fits that description.

All that probably wasn't very helpful, but all I can say is don't be like me. An outdoorsman stuck in the frickin' burbs of Fargo wishing like hell his wife would get with the program and move to MN. <sigh>


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

i appreciate the responses guys. you have both kind of solidified my way of thinking about this. 
I think i am making the right decision. hopefully i find out on friday whether this adventure will begin or not.

if there is anyone else out there that has input about this feel free to jump in at any time. i know we haven't covered everything, but what has been covered is much appreciated.

cheers :beer:

FYI, Catmechanic stands for Arctic Cat, not Caterpillar...


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Dick Monson said:


> I'm looking forward to the replies you get myself.


Ditto.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

I was born and raised in southern MN, New Prague to be exact and left there in '88 when I joined the Army. For the next 20+ years I traveled all over this globe and enjoyed every place I went. Fishing in Colorado 8 mile reservoir for trout to fishing the Panama Canal areas for peacock bass. Crab fishing off the coast in Washington state to lobster catching by Bob Dillon's boat at Ft. Sherman. Growing up in MN, crappie, blue gill, bullhead and snot-rockets were my favorite. I did some bird hunting along the railroad tracks that ran past the folk's home when I was younger too.

Here in ND, I have enjoyed the bird hunting out in Dickinson and jumbo perch in DL. Nothing like fishing bass in Dead Colt creek down there in your neck of the woods and also some bird hunting too. As mentioned earlier, snowmobiling between the two states is night and day. Trails, woods, excursions abound in MN. ND, if the snow stays in one place long enough, there are some beautiful trail rides also...sometimes. I owned sleds for many years and enjoyed it when I could here, but MN as it hands down for trails and free riding. Go ahead and add 4 wheelers to that too, and cross country skiing, snow shoeing, trapping, ice fishing and summer fishing.

Tax wise is off the charts. One would think with the billions and billions stuffing the preverbal coffers out west that ND could forgo property taxes like other states did years ago with 1/10th the state GNP than ND. I have lived in West Fargo and Fargo for over 10 years now and the taxes are ridiculous. 'Specials'? Really? Come on and the schools going up and the 'need' for more mills, taxes, etc is just plain dumb economics. Granted, there are some of these issues in MN too, but more so here. Like it has been mentioned a few times, property taxes here, income taxes there. SSDD.

I myself am looking at retirement (full or semi) in a few years and long for a place on a lake with trees and land. Not much of that happening around here. Crime is on the rise, serious crime and property crime, statistically stated in the resent few months. Influx of people and housing. Look at all the multi-dwelling places going up along 94 and in West Fargo. It is absolutely off the hook, and there is no slowing down. We are sitting at 108,000 in Fargo, 34,000 in MHD and about that in West Fargo with WF going faster than anywhere around here. Getting kind of crowded to my liking.

These are just my opinion or the most part, but I can't wait to get some breathing room, here the breeze in the tree's and go have my morning coffee looking over the lake...frozen or not.

My .02


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## Bustem36 (Feb 5, 2008)

Born and raised in Minnesota just north of the twin cities. Went to college in Crookston. Spent months at a time in Montana and spent as much time as I can in ND hunting or just hanging out at our hunting place out there in the summer. I can not stand MN. There are small spots of public that may be decent but the majority is overrun with people. I've had decent luck getting permission on private be it hunting or trapping but I find it far easier in ND. Western/NW MN is tolerable but right now if I could find a decent job in ND (not in the oil fields) I would move there in a heartbeat, or MT.

Bowhunting, at least where our place is in ND, is 10Xs better than MN. Waterfowl in MN is a joke, there is some decent upland hunting in a few places but expect racing people to spots.

As far as general activities if you like groomed or paved paths and paying park fees to see trees, Minnesota is where its at. Personally when I want to just get away paved or groomed paths are not the place. If the weather is decent in MN most those places are packed. But, if you like hanging out on the lakes and enjoying watersports I guess its not a bad place. You can hope lake to lake fishing and hit a few in a weekend if wanted and hit some of the chain lakes if boating.

If your staying to the west in MN It probably wont be much of a change, but the rest of MN at least to me in a waste. ND has definitely changed in the last few years but in Minnesota it seems like you can never get away from people it gets sickening.


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

thanks for the latest replies guys. it seems like across the board most have close to the same feelings about the situation.
like i said, waterfowl and probably upland hunting will be done back in ND. i don't even think i will apply for a deer tag in ND this year. been turned down the last 2 years and haven't had a buck tag since 08. i should apply though so i don't give up the preference points. Deer hunting has gotten harder and harder in SE ND. land is getting locked up and the herd numbers are way down. thought about just going for deer/elk in MT and being done with it.


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## 1lessdog (Feb 4, 2004)

When I moved to Mn. I moved the middle of Oct and was told I had to turn my tag in. The state of N.D.says if you move out of the state the day before season starts you have to turn in your tag. I talk to Bruce Burkett and that what he told me. I told him I wasn't a resident of Mn for 3 month. He didnt care. So if you apply and get a lic watch out.


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## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

Interesting topic.

I don't know that I have a lot to add that hasn't already been said, but as someone who grew up in far western MN about 100 miles south of Fargo, over time I have come to have a great appreciation for the overall "experience" of fishing the Ottertail/DL area lakes. Growing up all we fished were shallow-type prairie lakes. You fished the shorelines with spinners or trolled the shore or basin with cranks. Clarity was probably 2' or less usually. Probably some dead trees along the shore, etc, you get the picture......almost exactly like what you find on most eastern ND waters.

My family has had a lake home in the OT area for about 12 yrs now, and like I said, I have developed an appreciation for everything that the area lakes can offer in the summer. While the lakes have a lot of homes along them, they are generally nicely kept up with healthy trees and riprap, and most of the fishing is not on shoreline structure anyway. There could be hundreds of homes on a lake, and if you wake up at daybreak and head out, there will likely only be a few boats on the lake. There are countless spots to fish on most of these lakes. Humps, inside turns, saddles, etc, and they are scattered all over the lake. There will likely be an eagle or two hanging around. There will likely be a loon or two that come over for a look at some point.

To me, I enjoy hooking up with a fish and watching it fight while its still 6, 8, maybe 10 feet down. The fish are incredibly clean and firm due to the clear, cold water. I grew up eating walleyes from shallow farm lakes and never knew any different until I started eating fish from clean water.

I think there is more angler skill to fishing MN lakes. Often in ND you drop your spinner or crank back and just drive. In MN quality electronics are almost a must due to the often irregular structure, and the fact that you are not fishing the shoreline. Anyway, that's enough of my novel, but I think if you account for the total experience of a fishing outing, that is where MN shines.

If I was going to give one tip for open water fishing it would be to fish the mornings. I have always thought the morning bite lasted much longer and there is no traffic.

Good luck!


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

:thumb: Couldn't agree more Floyd.
Come early May through late October, there's no place I'd rather be than Ottertail lake country.


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

So I had an interview yesterday. All went well. Haven't discussed pay yet but I did get to see the benefit package. Health insurance was a big letdown. 300 more per month for family coverage. That's 2.5 times what I pay now. And there is no copay. You pay out of pocket for the first 6k then insurance kicks in at an 80/20 rate. So basically I would be paying 6k per year for coverage and another 6k before I see any help on a bill? Seems a bit absurd to me. Unless you have some major medical bills or are on a lot of prescriptions it doesn't benefit me much at all. And it's BCBS of ND which is what I have right now.

Is it like that all over? Granted I work for a large company and we have always had it good when it came to insurance.


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

Bummer!
That's lousy insurance and I fear if Obama gets his way it'll will be the new norm,,,
no matter what insurance you have now.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

cat.... not to get political.... That is what big company's will be doing since you now have the "government" option. Because big companies won't get subsidized like an individual (If you fit the category). So now most plans will change to high deductibles, lower copays, more out of pocket expenses for the individual. Yep why do you think the Unions wanted to be exempt from this law....because it took out the power of negotiations for Health benefits. yet the majority of unions wanted their members to vote for the party who pushed this bill. Again I didn't mean to get political. also am not trying to bash unions...it is just what I have seen happen in my neck of the woods.

Anyway.... Back on topic... People are telling you it is hard to get onto land for hunting.... yes and no. MN has some of the most State and Federal land open to hunters. Yes there is competition but if you look hard, do research and lots of leg work... it 2-3 years... you will find that little honey hole and have it mostly to yourself. Just need to work for it. And yes the further that land is away from the Metro area the better it is.

On getting onto private land. Not sure if it is still the same... But if a land owner got a "land owners" deer or turkey tag. They had to be on a list that they would open their land to hunters. So I would call the DNR and see if they have that info for you. I mean they used to publish a booklet with all the contact info of the land owners. This is a great way to get onto private lands. especially if you don't hunt the "gun" deer seasons....ie bow or muzzleloader. Also it could open up the door to get onto land for ducks, geese, turkey, etc. I know it opened the door to some of the land I hunt now.

Waterfowl hunting can be very good again if you work for it. I have buddy's that hunt the Mississippi and do very well on ducks. Geese you can do very well on as well. Just need to do some leg work to find those farmers who let you hunt. But it can be done.

fishing and water recreation.... Can't beat it. Look how many have stated how they like it and they are from ND.

I hope things work out for you and hope you can enjoy what MN has to offer.


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

well i was made an offer and accepted it yesterday.
looks like i will become a blue plater after all.

i plan on doing a lot of driving around in the evenings looking for places that a guy could possibly hunt waterfowl on and just start knocking on some doors. you never know who might just let you in.

its going to be rough for a while. my wife has been unable to nail down a job so far in her field. we are going to be roughly 100 miles apart which isn't bad at all, but i will only be seeing her and my son on the weekends which is a bummer to me.

i guess there is skype and stuff like that where we can interact together, but its just not the same.

hoping to find a job for her very soon and then start a serious search for a home.


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## Sam I am (Jan 16, 2011)

Congrats on the new job. I hear you about expensive insurance...my family coverage had two options: low or high deductible...which was $3000 or $6000. The high deductible was a lot lower monthly payment, but really wasn't health insurance. It was more like catastrophe insurance. The lower deductible wasn't any better and cost a lot more per month than the high deductible. I feel your pain.

Anyway, any thoughts on where you're aiming to land?


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## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

Congratulations on the new job. I'd start by getting maps of the Chippewa and Superior National Forests. I'd also ask the DNR for the map of their public wildlife management areas and state forests. MN also has huge amounts of country lands.
I would definitely get MNTRAX for my GPS.

Join a DU committee and you'll be in touch with a group of hunters. 
Good luck. Keep us updated on how it goes.:


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

UPDATE:

things are going good. still trying to nail down a job for my wife, but otherwise things are good. I am enjoying my new position which is a lot less stressful so far. I have only gotten out fishing a handful of times with mediocre results on walleyes. Bass, perch and northern pike have been in abundance though.

i might try to get in on a trap league and im looking for an archery range to go shoot my bow. I plan on taking advantage of the area i am in and all that it has to offer.

thanks for all of the kind words. About the only downfall i have found so far is the state income taxes.


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## 9manfan (Oct 22, 2008)

what part of state you move to ???


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I live in Michigan, have all my life as my daughter had. When she graduated from MTU she got a job with 3M as did her new hubby. Their job was north of the cities I think Washington county.
As a visitor there I found I liked the place for fishing. The family plan license for non resident was less money than for just my self here in Michigan. I enjoyed fishing the many lakes near the Kids home. Winter Snowmobiling there I found was also much nicer there than here in Michigan where you have to travel many hours from home to find a trail and find a place to stay for a weekend.
In Michigan at that time the trail permit was 25.00 in Minnesota it was 16.00 for a non resident and the trail was just across the road from the Kids home and we could have rode groomed trails almost to the capital steps, Their county alone listed 5000 miles of groomed trails. The daughter and son in law bought a nice farm not a big one but one with a 20 acre wood lot and 60 acres of farm land they leased for farming. Son in law had hunting for whitetails and a lot of small game in his own back yard. I live in what was the pheasant capital of Michigan at one time. I saw more pheasants at the Kids farm than I have in all of Michigan in many a year.

I liked the place but the deer hunting has kept me in Michigan. Two Buck tags a year and very long seasons to find that just right buck.
Son in law and daughter were transferred to Wisconsin. They kept the farm for about a year and decided it was a bit much to go there to take care of things so sold it.

 Al


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I live in Michigan, have all my life as my daughter had. When she graduated from MTU she got a job with 3M as did her new hubby. Their job was north of the cities I think Washington county.
As a visitor there I found I liked the place for fishing. The family plan license for non resident was less money than for just my self here in Michigan. I enjoyed fishing the many lakes near the Kids home. Winter Snowmobiling there I found was also much nicer there than here in Michigan where you have to travel many hours from home to find a trail and find a place to stay for a weekend.
In Michigan at that time the trail permit was 25.00 in Minnesota it was 16.00 for a non resident and the trail was just across the road from the Kids home and we could have rode groomed trails almost to the capital steps, Their county alone listed 5000 miles of groomed trails. The daughter and son in law bought a nice farm not a big one but one with a 20 acre wood lot and 60 acres of farm land they leased for farming. Son in law had hunting for whitetails and a lot of small game in his own back yard. I live in what was the pheasant capital of Michigan at one time. I saw more pheasants at the Kids farm than I have in all of Michigan in many a year.

I liked the place but the deer hunting has kept me in Michigan. Two Buck tags a year and very long seasons to find that just right buck.
Son in law and daughter were transferred to Wisconsin. They kept the farm for about a year and decided it was a bit much to go there to take care of things so sold it.

 Al


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

Detroit Lakes


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## 9manfan (Oct 22, 2008)

catmechanic said:


> Detroit Lakes


Long ways from our trap club here in SW Mn., always looking for shooters down here......


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## catmechanic (May 14, 2009)

That's a bit far for me to drive.
i do plan on trying to find a place to shoot my bow and shoot trap locally though.


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