# One Bill that hunters need to be aware of that Kerry Co-spon



## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

S . 1431 
ADDITIONAL COSPONSORS -- (Senate - November 21, 2003) 
At the request of Mr. LAUTENBERG, the name of the Senator from Massachusetts (Mr. KERRY) was added as a cosponsor of S . 1431 , a bill to reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes. 
S 1431 IS 
108th CONGRESS 
1st Session 
S. 1431 
To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes. 
IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES 
July 17, 2003 
Mr. LAUTENBERG (for himself and Mr. CORZINE) introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on the Judiciary 
A BILL 
To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes. 
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, 
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE. 
This Act may be cited as the `Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2003'. 
`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a reputable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'

Now this does include the 870, and the Mod 12, Berreta handguns and shotguns and Colt and Ithaca Shotguns both Semi and pump. He also cosponsored a bill that said any gun resembling a military weapon would be banned also. This includes matte black and camo clad guns.

These failed, but keep in mind we have some Judges on the Supreme court that will retire shortly. Kerry and the anti gun lobby would do the end around like Froielch tried with the trespass law. If you cannot legislate it change the law by suing to get what you want.

Our gun rights have never been threaten more than right now. For many that do not believe this. Just the last moth in the Senate alone over 200 amendments where offered up that would have limited our gun ownership. Fortunately none passed but had Kerry and Edwards been voting instead of campaigning this may not have been the case as 10 where only defeated by 1 vote.

Please think hard about this and the ramifications we could have with Judges appointed by Kerry, including Hillary Clinton. Do you really think that the intent of the law will make any diference to her on guns?


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

The first 2/3 of this post are solid hard facts. Ron gives a little opinion towards the end but there is no disputing the information he has given you. Thanks Ron


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Kerry is a snake in the grass waiting to jump up and bite all law abiding firearms owners. (disclaimer: the preceding is an opinion based on fact)


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

james s melson said:


> Kerry is a snake in the grass waiting to jump up and bite all law abiding firearms owners. (disclaimer: the preceding is an opinion based on fact)


oxymoron galore!


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## goosehtr4life (Dec 16, 2002)

Ron, is this not just the extension of a law that is currently in place, but is set to expire in the very near future??? If it is I am for the law that is in place..If this is something different please let me know...I own several guns and have never had a use or needed an assalt weapon..


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

GF4L

These where new provisions to the existing bill that is law. It increased the restriction currently in place. They use the guise of AWB extension to make it sound like it is not new legislation. That is why it is so important to fully understand the history of Kerry on Guns and not buy into the lip service he has been giving in trying to present himself.

He may be a hunter, but he most definitely is anti gun owner. If you think that is not a possibility just look at your statement.

The functioning action between an AR15 and a Rem 1100 are not much different. The appearance of a gun does not make it more or less lethal. Try and move past that mindset and realize that full auto weapons have been controlled through use permits since the 30's.

The AWB was presented to the public as making the nation safer. The results are just the opposite. We do not have a single community or state that has reduced gun violence with more restrictive laws. In fact the opposite is true, with a more armed public gun violence has decreased in communities that have concealed carry etc.

Semi auto weapons have been part of the hunting landscape for generations. A 11-87 in wood or matte black or camo are the same gun. The matte black may appear more threatening but it is still the same gun.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

the only restriction of this type that ever was remotely useful was the restriction on high capacity clips, which might help a little bit if some nut goes on a rampage. We all need to remember that the right to bear arms was put into the constitution so we could fight an oppressive government *it had nothing to do with hunters or their activites*. The left always tries to cast this right as a sportsmans issue. When you think of it in those terms assualt rifles are what our forefathers were giving us the right to own. In those days an assault rifle was a muzzleloader.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

What has more capacity, 1- 30 rnd magazine or 2- 20 rnd magazines? The magazine restrictions are worthless because there are so many out there grandfathered-in that getting 1 or 100 is no issue. Pre-ban hi capacity magazines for pistols are getting harder to find at a reasonable cost but are still readily available. The new C-6 Corvette is coming out soon, it has more than 400 HP, what if some speed demons went out and bought them and drove them into crowds of people. Is it the cars fault? It is if you use the thought mentality of the anti's.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

James

My son always says that if he misspells a word it's the pencils fault. The crazy thing is these are not assault weapons. They look like assault weapons. Dolly Parton looks like a hooker, but from the interviews I have seen I think she is a nice lady. Symbolism over substance. No that is not a quote from Rush Limbaugh. He says it, but I said it at least ten years before he did. The other problem is now they want to include any firearm with a military history. That includes my 870 pump. Study after study showes this assault weapon ban has done nothing. As a matter of fact cities with less restrictions on firearms have lower crime rates. Oak Grove, Illinois had crime go up after outlawing handguns years ago. Prisoners interviewed in prison were asked why they came to Oak Grove. The standard answer was because it is safer to burglarize a home when you do not have to worry about a homeowner with a handgun. I don't understand sportsmen who support this bill. Time after time they tried to add to this bill. They tried to tie it to the bill on frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, and that is why they had to nix that bill. I have heard from the democratic side that scopes are for snipers only, full metal are cop killers, hollow point are inhumane etc etc. If there was a bill against every firearm, scope, stock etc that they don't like we would have no firearms now. The assault weapon bill already includes any rifle with a thumbhole stock. Now is this logical? How much more dangerous is a rifle because it has a thumbhole in the stock. If people don't see this as the back door to destroy gun ownership they have their head buried in the sand. We need to all to vote our sport this fall.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Plainsman,
God I wish I could keyboard better. You say It so good. Please check your personel e-mail. THANKS


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

James and Plainsman I'm 100% in agreement with both of you, the way guns are defined is meaningless. Its all about the user and how responsible he is. A single shot is all it takes to kill a person and if they take away the guns the killing won't stop. Next it would clubs or some other weapon,sadly people have been killing each other needlessly for long before there were guns


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Bob,
I'm not on the attack against you, I was just saying that I am not willing to give any concession when it comes to firearm restrictions, not until the laws that are on the books are enforced. If the laws that we already have are enforced and there are still problems then it is time to look for a fix. The foolish AWB that is about to expire did nothing to curb crime.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Thanks James, I sometimes feel I'm a lone voice its nice to know that some of you agree with me, once in a while anyway. :lol:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I read something today that made my blood boil. Someone asked if people could have one world war two weapon, what would it be. One of the replys asked "Why would you wanna have a gun?? To shoot people? Guys! Stick that gun up your ***!" Some people's ignorance astounds me. I still feel that there needs to be more restriction of guns, but rather than hunting rifles and shotguns, handguns need to be restriced. Most shootings take place with handguns because they are simply too easy to get. There needs to be more detailed background checks, to begin with. The simple fact of the matter is that very few people hunt with a glock (or any semi automatic pistol) as a 9mm (for instance) does not have the knockdown power to kill most large game reliably, and not many use it as a CCW simply because it isint as reliable as a revolver. Putting hefty restrictions on semi automatic pistols would show a serious drop in shootings.


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## wingbuster (Apr 22, 2004)

Guns are not just for hunting they are also for protection. Call 911 tell them a man just told you he is going to come over and kill you. Fact police are to enforce the law not protect you. They will inform you when he shows up call and they can respond. Will you still be around to file a complaint? There are many laws keeping crimanals from obtaining a gun , but do they work? NO. If you are a criminal you do not obey the law. Fact gun restrictions only effect law abiding citizens, Because they are the only ones obeying the law... GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE...
Compare gun crimes to drunk driving,or drug laws. If they worked no one would be killed by drunk drivers or OD on drugs. Hell lets start banning sports cars and bars. IT is the fool not the tool and restricticting them has not worked for 28 yrs. Getting rid of them totaly backfires, just look at great Britain. Laws only effect law abiding citizens not crimanals and that is fact not speculating ....


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

MT every state that alows concealed cary has a big drop in crime, predators look for the weak target. The is a city in Georgia , Kennesaw that passed a law about 15 years ago that everyone in the city limits had to own a gun, after that law passed crime dropped by 90% overnight. It still has the lowest crime rate in the state by far.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"MT every state that alows concealed cary has a big drop in crime, predators look for the weak target"

Bob, I am not downplaying CCW. I too think it helps to eliminate crime but not many semi automatic pistols are used for it. The reasoning is because if one round misfires with a semi auto, you're dead, if there is a misfire with a revolver you just click over to the next chamber. Hence I said that heavier restrictions on semi automatic pistols would show a drop in gun crime.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Well I worked in a gunshop for years and if our sales were any indication the ratio of autos to wheel guns is 5 to 1 or more. And predators will use wheel guns if thats all they can get. All gun laws are ridiculous because its the user not the gun that matters. 
I personally carry a S&W model 60, because I agree with your analysis of how they function but my friends laugh at me and say I'm old fashioned. All I have to say is I've only used it once in the last 23 years and it functioned perfectly.


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

MT,

How many law enforcement officers carry wheelguns as their main sidearm? I suppose if their Glocks weren't that reliable then wouldn't they all go to six-shooters?


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

point taken but the sheer firepower of a semi automatic pistol is one of the biggest selling points and thats what they rely on during shootouts. not to mention most of the time the gun is never even fired, only used as a scare tactic.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Most concealed carry weapons are semi auto. They are flat and conceal much better than a wheel gun. I carry a model 1911 45 colt in a Wilson Combat inside the pants holster. You would never know it is there. The only way I can carry my 2.5 inch S&W model 66 is in a shoulder or ankle holster, and ankle holsters are nearly worthless. If I want to really hide things I go to a 380 Sigma in a covert body holster. I would say in North Dakota 90 percent of concealed carry is a semi-auto. I shoot a Kimber, and they are not all they are cracked up to be. My 4 inch S&W model 629 (44mag) will do about one inch at 25 yards of sandbags. My Kimber will do about 3 inches of sandbags at 25 yards. Shooting at 100 yards with the 45 is a joke. The little 380 has a fixed barrel and outshoots the 45 at 25 yards. The semi-autos just have to much slop. The lockup mechanism requires that some play must be built into the system, and a couple thousandths of an inch movement of the muzzle is a couple inches off at 50 yards. Change that to a fixed barrel 22 semi-auto and then you are talking about a tack driver. If you want supper accuracy from a 45 expect to pay somewhere around $1800.
Most concealed carry weapons are semi auto. They are flat and conceal much better than a wheel gun. I carry a model 1911 45 colt in a Wilson Combat inside the pants holster. You would never know it is there. The only way I can carry my 2.5 inch S&W model 66 is in a shoulder or ankle holster, and ankle holsters are nearly worthless. If I want to really hide things I go to a 380 Sigma in a covert body holster. I would say in North Dakota 90 percent of concealed carry is a semi-auto. I shoot a Kimber, and they are not all they are cracked up to be. My 4 inch S&W model 629 (44mag) will do about one inch at 25 yards of sandbags. My Kimber will do about 3 inches of sandbags at 25 yards. Shooting at 100 yards with the 45 is a joke. The little 380 has a fixed barrel and outshoots the 45 at 25 yards. The semi-autos just have to much slop. The lockup mechanism requires that some play must be built into the system, and a couple thousandths of an inch movement of the muzzle is a couple inches off at 50 yards. Change that to a fixed barrel 22 semi-auto and then you are talking about a tack driver. If you want supper accuracy from a 45 expect to pay somewhere around $1800.

Keep in mind that you don't need super accuracy in a concealed carry weapon. The average police shoot out is seven yards, and I would expect it would be the same for a Concealed carry person.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Has anyone ever taken a survey as to the percent of wheel guns to semi autos for CCW?


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

In the conceal carry course I took there were 22 people in class all had auto's except one.


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