# Pass Shooting



## theqmaster (Apr 14, 2011)

Hi,

I am fairly new to the hunting the Canadas and I don't have access to land to use decoys so when the season comes I have to do a lot of pass shooting but tough luck. I used 3" BB steel shot. I lead like 2 goose length in front of the beak. They usually flying 55+ yards out and they fly fast.

Any comments would be very welcome.

Thanks,
Q


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## CrazyWalsh81 (Nov 30, 2011)

First off quit pass shooting at 55yds...next find a group that you can hunt with and invest into a graound blind. Or go hunt public land and hide well, you can have closer shots even without decoys just by calling or invest into a half dozen decoys. Lots of time from now till next year to do some odd jobs for extra money.


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## teamflightstoppersND (Feb 20, 2009)

theqmaster said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am fairly new to the hunting the Canadas and I don't have access to land to use decoys so when the season comes I have to do a lot of pass shooting but tough luck. I used 3" BB steel shot. I lead like 2 goose length in front of the beak. They usually flying 55+ yards out and they fly fast.
> 
> ...


Nothing wrong with pass shooting. Anyone with a shotgun can do it and you dont have to set up decoys!! I pass shoot a few times a year when there is a bunch of low flying birds or when the birds are feeding on posted land. My grandpa is in his 70's and he pass shoots almost everyday he hunts waterfowl. So much for having a trailer of decoys.....


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Try more lead...................... If I am missing birds that is the first thing I try. Their size makes them look like they are moving slower than they are. Also consider trajectory when shooting that far out. Pattern your loads to see how far they are dropping that far out. If your bead is level with their head you are probably shooting not only behind them but below them. It is a rare occurance to shoot in front of birds and is usually obvious by the birds reaction.

There is nothing wrong with pass shooting. Some days it can be more productive than decoying.


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## beaniej266 (Feb 1, 2011)

Buy a 10 gauge!


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

55 yards you might need to extend your lead even further. I don't mind a good pass shoot now and then, don't let the decoy dicks get you down there's nothing wrong with it, but make sure of your distance and do your best to take ethical shots.


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## JethroBodine (Jan 5, 2013)

HOOK!

LINE!

SINKER!!

:rollin:


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## jpallen14 (Nov 28, 2005)

Come to Pierre, SD. I'm pretty sure this is where pass shooting originated.


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## ATA BOY (Feb 14, 2007)

the professor said:


> 55 yards you might need to extend your lead even further. I don't mind a good pass shoot now and then, don't let the decoy dicks get you down there's nothing wrong with it, but make sure of your distance and do your best to take ethical shots.


This is the best post on here in a long time. I just had my 72 year old dad out to Pierre the last 2 days and he PASS shot his birds both days. His words were anyone can shoot them in the decoys if you have the right field. And by the way he shot many ducks out of a layout blind this year, but loves pass shooting those honkers. That is the way we started hunting Pierre in the late 70's when most of these kids with the big trailers and all the stickers were still just a thought. Don't get me wrong all the public land is nice, but now to be a good hunter you have to be the lucky guy with the right chip at the registration trailer.


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

Indeed,good thread...I too love pass shooting,over time you learn to read the birds and distance and speed,with or against the wind,over time I also learned how to use the ammo that can reach out and stone those longer shots whether its honkers,snows or mallards,"Hevi Shot" was the answer for me.


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## JethroBodine (Jan 5, 2013)

snow said:


> Indeed,good thread...I too love pass shooting,over time you learn to read the birds and distance and speed,with or against the wind,over time I also learned how to use the ammo that can reach out and stone those longer shots whether its honkers,snows or mallards,"Hevi Shot" was the answer for me.


Looks like EM has got you hook line and sinker with their over priced product. oke: Don't feel bad the object in life is to part fools of their money. :lol:


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

Don't knock it unless you've tried it,hands down as good or better than lead ever was...Expensive? yes,do your job on the sending end and you shoot less and put more birds on the ground.


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## JethroBodine (Jan 5, 2013)

I have never tried it you are correct. I know BS when i see it. I have however hunted with people who were shooting it and guess what. Shooting doesn't come down to who has the better load it comes down to who can shoot better. I was knocking birds stone dead with 3' steel at 20-45 yards and yet the other 2 guys who were shooting hevi steel couldn't hit a beach ball rolling on the ground.

By the way nothing will be better than lead, sorry. If i really felt the need to gain that extra 10-15 yards where steel falls flat on its face. I would just load my own 3 inch lead loads and take the 100 dollar fine if i was ever caught. It would only take me 4 boxes of EM to start reaping the benefits.

Which if we want to debate about something constructive why don't we debate the issue concerning why lead shot should be legal when hunting* fields* for waterfowl. I think that this law needs to be changed. Is anyone with me??? :beer: Lots of pheasant hunting locations i hunt are next to sloughs anyways so what is the difference? Why is it legal to use lead when i am hunting pheasants in the same places i could hunt ducks?


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

JethroBodine said:


> I have never tried it you are correct. I know BS when i see it.


Your entire response is BS unless you've patterned it, and used it in the field then. Take the time to learn how to use the loads effectively, and they have their place. I shoot maybe 100 rounds of tungsten per season, but I would shoot a lot more if I could afford it. Pattern density is better, energy retention is better, and the loads respond to chokes great. Now the guy that just buys a box off the shelf and expects to see instant results and starts hacking at 80 yard snows or honkers probably isn't going to do any better than if he was shooting steel, but when used correctly they flat knock birds on their ***** at longer ranges than steel if the shooter does their part.


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## JethroBodine (Jan 5, 2013)

the professor said:


> JethroBodine said:
> 
> 
> > I have never tried it you are correct. I know BS when i see it.
> ...


Why would anyone take 80 yard shots, please tell me??? Where is the sport in that? You cant even identify what kind of duck you are shooting. :-?

I know we all hunt differently. Personally i have stuck my money into buying a nice decoy spread, trailer and blinds. Because of that i shoot birds at 20 yards all season long and so I can use cheap steal loads. I refuse to piss my money away down the barrel of my shotgun shooting at birds 80 yards away. I know this thread (which was a troll thread to start off with) was intended for pass shooting so what i am saying does not apply. I am just curious as to when water fowling became a sport of, How far away can i kill a bird? I always thought through calling and realistic decoy spreads and concealment the whole point of the sport was to see how close you can get the birds in and then making a nice 20-40 yard kill shot? No? When did this change?

This is just me, but i feel that i earned the bird when i trick the bird into believing that what i created on the ground with my decoys and calling is in fact a real life group of birds in a field feeding. I would get no sense of accomplishment if i sat in the weeds with no decoys making 80 yard pass shots at unsuspecting birds. That is just my opinion if that is what floats your boat then by all means.

AND! from what i have read about HM is it is not intended to extend range, From what i have read the whole point of HM loads is to increase pattern density and provide better shot strings. So yes if the product does what they claim it should result in less cripples. The load is still only rated out to 40 yards. So as far as what snow says about these products extending range is a fallacy. The only loads i have read about that is supposed to extend range is tungsten loads as the professor stated.

EM products are great! If you don't hunt with them you will not kill a single bird! There i said it now were on the same page snow. :thumb:


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## theqmaster (Apr 14, 2011)

Thanks a lot you guys for support (with one exception, the guy that sent me fishing  ).

Look, some are more fortunate to use decoys and kill 100 birds a season. How is that right, how is that considered a sport. *That *is BS, yes it might be legal but as long as they pluck them and use the meat right then that's fine but most likely that is not the case, they take just the breasts and toss the rest - we have to have a good dose of respect for the game we hunt.

I only got 2 this season and I am fine with that, I call them in if they are far earlier into the season they respond late they are smart and don't. I didn't wounded any so I am sure I shoot behind and like *dakotashooter2 *said most likely below. I am seeing a gun fitter tomorrow to see what he says.

I should visit Pierre, SD but it's a long drive in the winter (from E Minnesota) and I hear that sometimes they block the road if the weather is bad.

Again, thanks for feedback, even critical I do appreciate the time you too to reply to my (troll) thread.

I wanted originally to know if shotting 3" in BB would be a good combination. I did some digging and I heard that #1 in 3" should be better, will try it next year.

Minnesota season ended last month, I was surprised to hear that the South Dakota season is still opened.

Happy and Safe Hunting to you all beside the guy that sent me fishing, he can go ahead and fish as much as he wants 

Q


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## JethroBodine (Jan 5, 2013)

theqmaster said:


> Thanks a lot you guys for support (with one exception, the guy that sent me fishing  ).
> 
> Look, some are more fortunate to use decoys and kill 100 birds a season. How is that right, how is that considered a sport. *That *is BS
> 
> Q


Sorry for thinking it was a troll thread. my bad.

yes there is a reason i kill hundreds of birds each season but non the less i eat them and harvest them legally. btw please tell me what else there is to eat on a duck besides the breast i'm dying to know...

Tell you what take the money you would spend on these expensive loads and buy some decoys and then you can experience hundreds of mallards dumping on you. It is an experience that one will never understand until they see it with their own eyes&#8230;.or you can keep trying to find the mystery shell that will allow you to better your chances of a kill pass shooting and maybe next year you will get 3 :thumb:


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## theqmaster (Apr 14, 2011)

lol - you sent me fishing and called it "troll". It's allright, I am not really hold it against you in any shape or form.

I pluck my birds clean, while there isn't much meat on duck legs there are very tasty but there is a lot more on Canadas. Yes is work but feels like wasting my time to go hunting then toss 30% of the meat. I guess for me is a principle.

For now I don't want to buy a 3 1/2, althou frustrating is fun understanding how and why I miss. At least for now I suspect is my gun shotting low hopping for more than 2 Canadas next year.

Some of my friends use 10ga but that shouldn't matter I've seen people being successful using a 410 for pheasants it will serve me good on the long run.

:beer:


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## JethroBodine (Jan 5, 2013)

theqmaster said:


> lol - you sent me fishing and called it "troll". It's allright, I am not really hold it against you in any shape or form.
> 
> I pluck my birds clean, while there isn't much meat on duck legs there are very tasty but there is a lot more on Canadas. Yes is work but feels like wasting my time to go hunting then toss 30% of the meat. I guess for me is a principle.
> 
> ...


Sorry for calling your thread a troll it is just a hot topic around waterfowl when you talk about taking 55 yard shots. Sorry pal. Tell you what your best bet would be. Since it is the off season and you can find some darn good deals on decoys and blinds. As far as your gun goes millions of geese have been shot with a 12 gauge 3" load. Just try out some different shells and pattern them from 20 30 and 40 get to know that 40 yard range real well like burn that range into your mind. IF a bird is farther away you know there is no point in shooting at it. for geese 2 and BB seem to be the common shot. 2 will pattern better in most cases but find out for yourself through testing pattern. as far that the lead goes clay pigeons are your best friend since they fly at about the same speed as a goose. Need anything else hit me up. hapy hunting man and sorry again for the troll post comment.


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## BirdJ (Aug 24, 2011)

jpallen14 said:


> Come to Pierre, SD. I'm pretty sure this is where pass shooting originated.


Stay the hell away!!! We got enough SKY BUSTING, DITCH PIGS, WANT AND WASTE, CRIPPLING your know what's out here as it is!!!!!! Sure as hell don't need any more!!!!! :******: And I was putting it nicely!


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## theqmaster (Apr 14, 2011)

JethroBodine said:


> theqmaster said:
> 
> 
> > lol - you sent me fishing and called it "troll". It's allright, I am not really hold it against you in any shape or form.
> ...


Thanks for the advice. I agree with most you said. I am going to try the #1 shot to get a better pattern. I will report next year how I do! No need to worry, didn't feel insulted.

I do shoot sporting clay, it's fun and I do ok not great but will get there. The gun fitter said I need to change a bit the picture I see so I won't shoot low.

My very best!


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## theqmaster (Apr 14, 2011)

BirdJ said:


> jpallen14 said:
> 
> 
> > Come to Pierre, SD. I'm pretty sure this is where pass shooting originated.
> ...


I never had a cripple. Most people miss when they take on long shots that will result in no cripples, pure misses.

Just take a minute and think how lucky you are that you have land or friends that allow you to set decoy. Now imagine you'd be on the other side...

So, take it easy!


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

BirdJ said:


> jpallen14 said:
> 
> 
> > Come to Pierre, SD. I'm pretty sure this is where pass shooting originated.
> ...


Don't stick your nose to high in the air.. you might drown. Decoy hunters aren't the most honorable around either. Most pass shooters are more than happy with a bird or two, while many guys who decoy whine like a ***** if they don't get a limit. I've also hunted with a few decoyers that wanted nothing to do with the birds one they hit the ground.To me a pass shooter that wounds an occasional bird isn't any worse than they guy that kills his limit then dumps them in the ditch...............

Long shots take skill. Shooters that have the ability to consistently take birds beyond 60 yards are far and few between... A lot of guys claim to be able to do it but even most of them just scratch the occassional bird. Generally it's just another fish story. I cant even count how many times I've seen a guy shoot at a bird 30-40 yards away to have it drop 60 yards out and claim that they made a 60 yard shot. I do remember many occasions when guys 60 or 70 yards to the right or left claimed they hit bids that flew 30 yards over my head. And even a few that ried to claim birds that had passed on the far side of me from them.

I started hunting in the mid 70's. At that time MAYBE one in fify guys hunted over goose decoys. Almost everyone pass or jump shot geese........


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## JethroBodine (Jan 5, 2013)

dakotashooter2 said:


> I started hunting in the mid 70's. At that time MAYBE one in fify guys hunted over goose decoys. Almost everyone pass or jump shot geese........


You forget that back in the 70's lead was the shot that was used, steel was not even given a thought yet. So yes shooting lead made it much easier for pass shooting and jumping birds since 9 times out of 10 the birds are always flushing or flying at that 50-60 yard range and lead loads with good shooting is a high probability kill shot. The main reason everyone hunts over decoys now days is to get those birds in tight because the kill radius of steel is at max 50 yards. That and people who have ever done a decoy hunt and had success with it will tell you that the extra work of putting out decoys and watching birds land on top of you is more fun that actually killing the birds. I have on numerous occasions got our limit and we take lunch and do some more scouting and then we will go back and sit in the blinds with our guns in the truck just watching birds land while practicing our calling and flagging techniques. To say that field hunters are not ethical *to me* is a joke. We put much more time effort and money into the sport than the joe who sits in the cattails. Field hunters work for the birds they harvest and if that isnt the definition of ethical hunting i do not know what is.


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

jethro,

I understand where you are coming from,but we are talking about pass shooting,I also stated the use of "hevi shot' not "hevi metal" or the all new "speed ball" from hevi shot,there is a reason remington and kent both have their own version of better than than steel loads (remington HD,and kent matrix).As far as lead vs hevi shot,I stated as good if not better for a reason,thats my opinion only,however the pellets stats speak for themselves,that would be weight and density,the professor is spot on about these loads.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I didn't mean to imply that all decoy hunter are unethical I was just tring to point out that both sides have their share of unethical hunters. FWIW it only took me about 2 years to figure out that 60 yards and beyond wasn't really even a high percentage shot with lead. That didn't stop other guys though............

It's a bit harsh to label ALL pass shooters as skybusters and ditch pigs...........


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## JethroBodine (Jan 5, 2013)

dakotashooter2 said:


> I didn't mean to imply that all decoy hunter are unethical I was just tring to point out that both sides have their share of unethical hunters. FWIW it only took me about 2 years to figure out that 60 yards and beyond wasn't really even a high percentage shot with lead. That didn't stop other guys though............
> 
> It's a bit harsh to label ALL pass shooters as skybusters and ditch pigs...........


I know that you weren't referring to all decoy hunters unethical. :beer: I was just merely speaking from my experiences. Whatever way a person likes to hunt by all means go for it. I like a good pass shoot every now and then for teals in a small slough. I at least try to do that once a year, makes for fun shooting at those little rockets flying just above the cattails. I also like to do the occasional jump shoot on geese. :thumb: It is nice to change it up every now and then. You're always going to get the sky busters. I have come to the conclusion over the years that many people just plain mis judge distance. I have passed on a lot of birds that i thought were to far out and then when i pace the distance they were only 30 yards out&#8230;it happens. i have also shot at ones that were 60 yards out... took me about 2 years to really get the distances burned into my mind.

In the end nothing gets me more excited than seeing a bird(s) lock up into my spread. For me that is just the best thing on earth. But everyone is not the same. That being said im out guys good luck with your ice fishing season! :beer:


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## theqmaster (Apr 14, 2011)

I think is a good and healthy discussion.

Tend to agree with* dakotashooter2* 100%
- longer shots at fast speed fly take skills, it's tough, there are a lot of variables wind, distance, speed, lead, pattern 
- I can't see why one that shoots geese would trash them after the hunt is over, that's sick. I never seen it happening. There is sporting clay you know and it's fun.

Thanks a lot to all that weighted in, it's very informative to hear your view points.
Q


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## davenport wa. (Feb 11, 2006)

you ask about lead, check the Frank Bellrose report of lead a 15 year study ( said maybe 1-2% ) of all the water fowl in the us could have lead poisioning, Now in wa, state lead has been banned since 1990, a shame, to save the swans , but funny the swans are still dieing of leaD POISING, AFTER 23 YEARS? SOUNDS KINDA FUNNY TO ME, how many times have fields been plowed since 1990? How much muck has settled in lakes since then? If you stand on your favorite lake and shoot at water fowl how far does the average shot go into the lake? And then when that shot does enter the lake how deep is it ? Ive never seen a goose dive 50 feet to the bottom of a lake to get some hard shot that he would spit out any any.How fasr does that shot go accross your favorite stream and go into the field that the farmers plow under? Boys I hear to tell ya weve been taken on a ride, True lead when indegested is no friggen good, but how many of your birds come down wing shot? How many come down stone dead?Thats whay we use dogs to retreve the birds that come down alive. In wa. state we go until jan 28 for water fowl, and ill tell ya late water fowl theat has been pressured is damn had to get over deks, When they been shot at for months the resident birds are one of the hardest critters to get, Yes we use steel because of price, black cloud works good, we dont shoot past 45 yards on pass shooting except straight in, with steel ive taken them at 70 on a straight in shot, not very many times, so why educate them? makes no sense , same way as shooting the roost blows them out of here. Later keep your powere dry. good shooting, bob


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Something not mentioned is how often decoyers become pass shooter when the birds are not decoying well. There are a fair share of guys that start "flingin lead" on days when the birds won't commit. Those 60-70 yard shots they are taking are not on birds coming straight in but birds skirting the decoys. That is no different than pass shooting and just as bad as skybusting.

Pass shooting has a place and if done correctly can be very productive. I know some guys older than me that will watch birds come off a lake for 3-4 days then set up somewhere in their flight path and pass shoot them. These guys are not above taking an occassional 70 yard shot but won't unload their guns at that range. They also know not to pressure the birds every day so they usually don't affect the flight pattern significantly. I remember the shooting lines that used to form at the borders of refuges. They used to turn a lot of guys into skybusters. You could watch the birds come off the lake at probably 40 yards high and start to gain altitude as the neared the shooting line then drop back down once they passed the "shooting line". The smart guys would set up 1/4 to 1/2 mile behind the line and get some shots after the birds had dropped back down.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Pass shooting in the 1960's and early 70's 3'' copper covered lead BB and Federal 4 buck. Remington 1100 guns with 28 or 30'' barrels. Nothing like it.


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## dwshunt (Apr 26, 2003)

The old days and 4 buck. I knew a guy and that's all he used. You would hear a tic if he hit the bird and then it would fall usually a long ways away. He didn't hit very many though!


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