# New Choke



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I am thinking about getting a new choke for me shotgun. I have a Browning BPS 12 gauge. Anyone have any suggestions? I was thinking about an undertaker but i havent heard much about it.


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## smokeumm (Feb 14, 2005)

If you don't like chasing wounded birds the Patternmaster choke is the way to go. Takes a few shoots to get use to it, but you'll love it.


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

Pattern Master or Wad Wizard will be a great way to go. Both are used in my group. The thing with the PM is that the porting causes them to be pretty loud inside a duck boat, while the Wad Wizard isn't as loud. 
I prefer the Wad Wizard SWAT 12, because I like to keep my shots within 45 yards max. 
My brother shoots the PM Long Range. It's great for killing birds, but if the birds are really close and you're not on them, you'll miss. It holds a very tight pattern. I think they make a PM Over Decoys choke and new chokes without porting now. That might be something to look into.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I was just looking at getting a new choke for shooting of decoys. I'm shooting a full chokle right now and I didnt have that many kill shots. Though it maybe to do my shooting, but considering that I shot more birds in my group I dont think that its the boggest problem. Most of the shots are from 25-50 yrds. Though once in awhile some birds sneeks in behind and those are point blank. I will look into the pattern master.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I would also look into the Drakekiller. It is a great choke tube.

This is our group....there was 5 of us (I took the pic).


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

where can i find these chokes at. What stores


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## Komrowski (Apr 20, 2007)

The High flyer from KICKS chokes is great, it works. I got the extra full for steel (dont let the name fool you its not the same as extra full for lead) and it gives great patterns, and it shortens the shot string real nice as the dead birds tell us. We are always shooting at 40 yards and its deadly at that distance. You can get them factory direct, and there customer service is about perfect. I got the wrong one, and the took it back for the right size choke.


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## Pato (Oct 7, 2003)

I shoot a Browning Gold Fusion and have used a Cabelas extended choke tube in full / HeviShot and had trouble with close in shots. I got a Cabelas improved modified, and am back at it again. The full did real well on the out there birds though. They interchange quickly due to the knurled outside. No more wrench to try keeping track of.


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

> I'm shooting a full chokle right now and I didnt have that many kill shots.





> Most of the shots are from 25-50 yrds.


Theres your problem; too tight of a choke at too close of a range, not getting enough spread. Let the birds come into that exact range next time, but use a modified, or even improved cylander. Try that before dropping $100 on a choke. :thumb:


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

blhunter3 said:


> where can i find these chokes at. What stores


Call Kevin, he'll take care of you.

http://www.drakekiller.com/

All of my guns are fitted with the Drakekillers


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I did play around with my choke's this year. None of them really worked all to well. I was just wondering if a new choke would make a difference.


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

blhunter3: What chokes did you experiment with?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Check the site chris has posted.....drakekiller.com.

And Kevin is very knowledgeable and will help you out.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

full, modified, improved cylinder. Went I shoot clays I didnt have a hard time hitting the birds, it was killing them. I used bb and bbb for geese and 4 and 2 for duck. I just figured that I would try a extra full choke to see if that would kill them better. It sucks chasing down geese when they are running.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

get the drakekiller and you won't be sorry.


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## Original Goosebuster (Jan 12, 2006)

I have never tried aftermarket chokes before and have always stuck with factory invector-plus cokes in my browning gold and have never had any problems with cripples or the "doughnut pattern". I dont think that birds at 10 to 20 yards it makes as big of a difference as using an aftermarket choke at 40. Feel free to correct me if im wrong.


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

I would probably agree that at 10 yards the choke won't matter. The thing is, how often are you going to get that scenario? We usually shoot our birds within 35 yards, but consistently at 10 yards probably isn't realistic. If one was hunting private property and not public maybe. It's hard to get those kind of passes when sky busters will shoot the birds that work your spread.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

My Drakekiller will never leave my gun!!!


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

I asked my brother, who guides with one of the number one hunting clubs in Texas what he thought about Drake Killer.. He said, "Who??" He shoots Pattern Master.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Well its really hard to have a constitant shooting distance because, sometimes we have geese that are coming in all directions and its up close and personal. And other times we are shooting them far out there. I was just thinking about getting a new choke after a few hunts when the geese wouldnt commit and we had to shoot them far out.


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

It's definitely hard trying to determine which choke you're going to use at which time, since the situation can change so much. My brother keeps his chokes close, so he can switch them out. I just keep my Wad Wizard in. It's really preference. Some guys change shells out.


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## wyogoose (Feb 11, 2006)

Does anyone have an opinion on the comp-n-chokes? I have been looking at them and Kicks for my new gun. Please let me know your experiences with them. Thanks


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## SDwaterfowler (Mar 2, 2006)

I use WadWizards Swat and Supreme tubes. The Swat is in my gun about 80% of the time. But I always have the supreme handy. It gets put in when the birds are not finishing properly or when we are hunting snows. I think having the option of a couple different tubes for different situations is important.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> number one hunting clubs in Texas


That's your problem right there! The DK is made right here in good old ND. It's made for YOUR gun. Not like the rest of them were it's made for every gun. He builds it for your barrel.


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## goosehunter20 (Oct 19, 2006)

I have the same gun and I have the Cabelas choke tubes for heavy shot and I shot my limit of geese with it both days last weekend


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

Maverick,
There are 4 Benelli SBEIIs, black with 26" barrels in my family, do you think that there is going to be that much difference in the barrels..?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Hardsell....

I thought the same thing. Then I talked with a gunsmith. Every gun is different. You could buy 4 exact same guns from the same store at the same time and they could all have different barrel dimensions.

One way to check is just take all 4 of the SBE's your family has to a gunsmith.

This is what Kevin told me. every barrel is different. Even the slightest difference will change the effectiviness of the choke. If the barrel is too tight for choke diameter that will effect the shot. It it is too loose and does not constrict the choke enough it will effect the shot.

Let's put it this way. I bought the drakekiller and another buddy has the PM. We both patterned them together. His pattern was to the left. Mine was centered on the paper. I even shot his gun. It was either the choke or the gun.

Also with the drakekiller, Kevin will tell you what loads work best and which ones don't.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Hardsell said:


> Maverick,
> There are 4 Benelli SBEIIs, black with 26" barrels in my family, do you think that there is going to be that much difference in the barrels..?


Bore diameters on same make/model shotguns have been proven to vary up to .015" and more. A modified choke is a .018 constriction IIRC. Which obviously makes some factory chokes way off in their designations. I believe benellis are typically more consistent in their bores then some other makes though.

Both my 12s have drakekillers in them as well. Its one purchase I put off a while on the first gun. When I picked up the SX3 this year I stopped by Kevins shop on the way home to get another. I'm very happy with the product and its nice to know the money is going to a guy like Kevin.


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

I would expect more consistency out of Benelli shotguns. They're using the Crio barrels in their SBEIIs. 
Sounds good though, I'm glad you're happy with your purchases.


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## 1 shot (Oct 24, 2007)

It sounds like you cant go wrong with any of the chokes mentioned. My self, I am getting the Patternmaster. I want 1 choke for everything. From game load to buck shot (coyotes). Last time i checked the drake killer couldn't be used for larger shot sizes.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

pattern master it is then


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Hardsell its unfortunate that the guys in Texas are not on the cutting edge.I have owned and shot a wad wizard for a number of years. Its a good choke but usually wont pattern as well as a Drakekiller. The lugs in a wizard are a gimmick. The supreme is long and heavy. It actually changed the balance of my gun. If anyone has a ported gun in my spread they will be placed somwhere that they wont be ringing anyones ears. Lugs and ports are old school.


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## MWC (Oct 1, 2004)

USAlx50 said:


> Hardsell said:
> 
> 
> > Maverick,
> ...


You won't find alot of Italian guns with 0.015" bore variances. They would not make it thru the proof house. They do however have a 0.003 +/- tolerance each way from there stamped bore diameter (ie-18.6mm) Not saying it can't happen, anything is possible. I've owned over 10 Beretta O/U and Autos, and have never had the bore measure any more than .002" off of what the stamp stated.

Back to topic, having a matched choke to your bore is as good as it can get. I have heard of and watched some amazing shots with the Drakekiller tubes. I however am trying the Terror Tubes this upcoming season to see if they are all they are craked up to be. Bore to choke skirt on my standard .675 Terror measured between 0.001"/0.002" in an ExtremaII. Patterns will soon tell what this combo will do.


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

I guess the one thing that throws off the performance and the matched choke would be the shells you are using. If anyone can tell me what the tolerances on shotshell ammunition is that would be appreciated. I would assume that one wouldn't get the same tolerances with shotshells as you would with centerfire ammunition. I think the consistent performance of the shells would have a more drastic impact than the choke or the barrel, since they won't change. Yet every shotshell might be different.


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

There isn't any choke that will make you shoot better. Put in your improved cyl and pratice. Save the money on the choke tube and shoot 50 rounds of trap/skeet instead during the off season. That will make you harvest more birds. When I was a young pup I would shoot at least 3-4 rounds a trap per week. Practice is what it takes to harvest more birds effectivly. If you can't put the center of your pattern on the bird you will have a tough time killing birds. Keep shooting trap until you average 20+ out of 25. On the score card a little chip off of the clay counts but don't count those in your head. Only count the ones you shatter/dust. When you can consistently shatter/dust 20+ out of 25 any choke tube will work if the birds are in range.

I have never hunted with anyone that had an aftermarket choke tube in there gun. We rarely have problems with cripples, and harvest plenty of birds.

I think it is more important to shoot the same shell all year long than buying a fancy choke. If you switch brands/velocity every weekend you will have a tough time consistently killing birds.

This is just my $.02


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

Jungda99:
I don't think anyone is going to disagree with practicing more often. The more practice, the better. On the other hand, my brother shoots about 3 different chokes out of his shotgun and his ammunition ranges from Kent Fast Steel to Dead Coyote. From what I've seen he's hit pretty much everything he's aimed odd. I've also seen him have success on long shots that I wouldn't consider taking. Using custom chokes and high quality shells helps make certain aspects of shooting more achievable. I also think that natural skill comes into play and compliments practice.

Still looking for an answer on the tolerances of shot shell ammunition.


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

Lots of interest in this thread,some of it good info.

To the guy with the "drake killer" that shoots to the left,"it could be that the choke is cross threaded,so try the choke and pattern again.If it still shoots left,the barrel is bent and believe it or not this happens to new guns right outof the box.

My PO is,gun manufacture'ers focus on building guns and up until a few years ago they've found that there is a need for better patterning shotguns and to compete they had better take a close look at what they can do to make better patterns,from backboring to cone lengthening and bore diameter and now chokes.

Aftermarket companies are doing well,very well perfecting chokes for all shooting applications,starting with the target shooters.

They specialize just in building chokes and putting more shot in the kill zone and eliminating "flyers" outside the pattern which means more birds in the bag.

Carlson,comp'n choke and especailly Briley builds some of the best chokes for all types of shooting,both steel and lead loads.For best selection check out there website,you won't find near the selection at a retail outlet.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Snow the drakekiller did not shoot to the left......it was my friend with the patternmaster.

The drakekiller shot fine.

Agreed with practice. But I do shot trap and I do score in the 20's every round. But what I noticed with the custom choke is that the geese dropped stone dead! I mean not even a twitch after they hit the ground. Other years they would hit and still be alive. I am not talking about winging a bird and it sails but head up on the ground and you have to ring its neck. With the custom choke.....dead!


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

Count~

To get a good idea what the pattern looks like in flight,check out "bloodyblinddoors" thread here under "I won't lie another gun"

He has some great pics and the last picture show's the shot string/pattern to the right of the bird,not the best pattern,looks to be blow'in or just large shot size.Anyway you get the idea.

Tim

Hope this helps.


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Hardsell said:


> Jungda99:
> I don't think anyone is going to disagree with practicing more often. The more practice, the better. On the other hand, my brother shoots about 3 different chokes out of his shotgun and his ammunition ranges from Kent Fast Steel to Dead Coyote. From what I've seen he's hit pretty much everything he's aimed odd. I've also seen him have success on long shots that I wouldn't consider taking. Using custom chokes and high quality shells helps make certain aspects of shooting more achievable. I also think that natural skill comes into play and compliments practice.
> 
> Still looking for an answer on the tolerances of shot shell ammunition.


You are exactly correct... The correct shells, Choke, and shooter will absoultley harvest more birds. I just don't want people thinking that "if i buy this choke tube I will kill more birds" that is basically the point I was trying to get across. Like I said i have never shot a custom choke becuase I didn't feel I need to.

The most important thing is being able to put the center of the pattern on the bird.

I have no problem with experienced shooters who are looking for the "stone dead" outcome that "can" be acheived with a custom choke.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Well put. Good shooting is a combo of things and of course there is no substitute for practicing shooting all 3 together.

On a side note, this also reminds me of a hunting show I saw last weekend on VS Network. It was the show, Hunting University. They were promoting heavy shot, and bragging about shooting birds during the show at 70-100 yards (yes, they did give a high 5 over a 100 yard shot). Nothing like promoting skybusting at 100 yards...I don't care what load you shoot. Got me a bit heated to see it...but it reminds me of this topic where a choke alone will make the world of difference. You still need to hit the target.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

My problems was not in hitting the birds, it was killing them. Some friends that I hunt with had patternmasters and their geese dropped dead. I do shot a lot of clays, but its not the same as a flock of geese coming in. Also shooting lead is different then shoot steel and one bb can break the clays where as it takes more bb's to take down a goose.

Who ones maybe its just my shooting.

The only reason I was asking about new chokes, is because I HATE running down, downed geese. If anyone else has done that they know what I'm talking about.

So, are the new chokes worth investing or not?


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## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

In my opinion they are. Everyone in my group uses either PM or WWs. We have a lot of experience between us and we all prefer them.
The only real way to find out is to purchase one yourself and see what you think. That's the only way you're going to be able to answer your question.


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## greenhead61 (Feb 15, 2007)

I shot a browning BPR for years. Then switched to an 870 super mag witha pattern master and love it. That P.M. flat out smokes birds!! I Wont ever use another choke...... :sniper: Reach out and touch'em boys!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

blhunter3

My bet is that you are not centered on target with your shots. What that means is you are most likely missing the bird with majority of pellets in the shot string. You are hitting the birds and causing cripples that need to be dispatched or fly off.

If you do not get the shot in front of the bird and allow the bird to fly through the bulk of the pattern you will have cripples same thing happens if you get to far out in front, but that usually is not the problem. It may not be the choke at all but your lead.
Take a look at the picture ! It shows the shot string to some degree. Hope this helps. I know that my clean kills went way up when I pushed my barrel a bit father past before shooting. On geese over decoys use the four B's method to work on this. BUTT/BODY/ BEAK/ BANG!!!!!!
It is how I told my daughter to shoot her 20ga at geese. She folds them clean with a load of 7/8oz #2 steel out to 30 yards no issues.

http://www.refugeforums.net/refuge/show ... hot+string


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

1 shot said:


> It sounds like you cant go wrong with any of the chokes mentioned. My self, I am getting the Patternmaster. I want 1 choke for everything. From game load to buck shot (coyotes). Last time i checked the drake killer couldn't be used for larger shot sizes.


The DK cant be used for STEEL shot sizes larger then BB (why shoot any steel bigger then BB?). Lead/hevishot is good to go at all sizes. From what I understand the PM was designed for large steel shot loads and doesn't pattern as well with smaller game loads due to the wad differences.


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