# The shifting migration



## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

Guys, I have a problem that has been weighing pretty heavily on my heart the past few years. The area where I used to hunt snows (and still have a place to stay with friends) has slowly lost it's migration over the years. The snow goose migration has been moving "forever west" for decades. I know that the oil boom has really made it tough, if not impossible to find a place to stay on the western side of the state. I would like some input on what others have experienced the past two years in terms of whether the birds are staging well or just blowing through. Any info regarding SPECIFIC locations and times should be sent via PM rather than posted in this thread out of respect to other hunters. General info like " we had a really good time" or "couldn't find a place to camp" should be fine, I just don't want to start a big internet scouting ordeal here. I dearly miss my snow goose hunting and didn't even bother to go to my old stomping grounds last year. The two previous years I did go and it just hurt too much to stare out at 20 miles of empty fields when I can still see all those birds and recall dozens of hunts vividly in my mind. I am also wondering where this migration shift will ever end. It would be real nice to know it's cause since it has been occurring since the early 70's (maybe longer). It seems that we may be hunting snows in central Montana some day if this continues.


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## schmill (Jan 31, 2011)

Well not sure where your hunting but i will say that the Eastren part of the State has been and still is holding good #'s but its all timing and weather my friend cant find big#'s on the computer. not trying to be a dick. DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE then DRIVE some more!!!! That's just part of the game.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

The migration pattern is in constant flux. I live in the NE part of the state 10 miles from the MN/ND border. 30 years ago snows and blues wer pretty common on the few local lakes/refuges. Now one might see a small flock of 100 or so birds use the areas for a few days before moving on. From what I can tell the migration pattern moved at least 50 miles west in that time and took on a somewhat angular path across ND. I suspect farming practices and water availability in both Canada and the US have at least something to do with it. I know the shift in my area started in the 70s-80s during some dry years and just hasn't worked it's way back. I would point out that often the fringe areas that are the edge of the migration can be the easiest to hunt because the pressure tends to be low. And as mentioned timing is the big issue. The big push is usually about a 3 day affair. I'f your not in place or wait for reports when it happens your gonna miss it. Sometimes I think ND is just too close to Canada. When the big blow drives them out we get the same weather so the birds end up in SD or NE.


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

I don't think the migration pattern has shifted too much farther west than where it was in the mid '70s. There are very few birds at Kenmare (where they used to have a big Goosefest) when I go through there in late October. There is a limit on how much farther west the migration can go. The birds are not going to be in eastern Montana. There is not that much water or cropland. It's mostly grazing country. However, there is no question that the migration timing has changed. Thirty five years ago, there were plenty of birds in the Devils Lake area by Columbus day. There were even a fair number of birds by the opener. There were three to four weeks of pretty good hunting in that area. Not any more. (If there are early season birds, they are run ragged by swarms of hunters hoping to make a score.) The birds come later and stay for a shorter period because the weather can get pretty hostile during the first week in November.

I don't know exactly why the timing has changed. It could be any number of reasons: their point of origin in Canada (overgrazed habitat), pressure that drives them back across the border when they reach North Dakota, more water in Canada to hold the birds, different crops planted in Canada that really hold the birds until they are driven out by really bad weather, different fall plowing practices.

The migration is always mysterious to me. I have seen birds leave their roost in southern SK on a clear late October day and ride a strong NW wind into North Dakota. I have also seen them, in the same week in a different year, hang around in SK through a terrific blizzard and come looking for food in the same field in which they were feeding before the blizzard hit. 
Four to six inches of snow had no effect on moving those birds. They turned the white field black in three hours.

I have seen the birds frozen out of the Devils Lake area on the 25th of October and jump south of I-94 into green fields near Kulm and Ellendale that weren't hit by the snow and cold. It was a bonanza.

So, in conclusion, I would look north or south for birds, not farther west.


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## wtrfowl14 (Dec 21, 2007)

And with hardly any crops on the western end this year, who knows what is going to happen. There is a huge area that doesnt have very much seeded this year so it might seem like different migration but in al it is just lack of food. Food is going to determine their migration this year and maybe for a few future years if they like the change and adapt to different locations.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

I understand about the big push and timing. Since I am out of work for 6 weeks that time of year, I can usually show up whenever the birds arrive, although the 2 week license can be a gamble. I once had the big push hit the day after my license expired! It was not that bad though, since there had been decent numbers of staging birds before it. The tremendous pea, lentil, and bean crops that Canada puts up these days may well be delaying the southerly migration too. Especially since the birds are showing up in weaker condition from the tundra. They need more feeding time before they are strong enough to head further south. I have seen them skip ND altogether when late snow storms hit. Early Nov. is the best bet these days, has been for awhile now. With late timing like that, snow storms are a strong possibility.
Drive, drive, drive? I do. Last time I was fortunate to go for a spring hunt (2002), I drove through 3 state before finally settling in on the concentration. My friend I stay with in north central ND spends 3 months at his "hunting camp" ( he is actually from Fargo) living in the little community there. If the geese were showing up, I would know about it. The area used to be pretty reliable as long as you were flexible with your hunt dates, but there is a reason that the outfitters have all but dried up and the snow goose shoot out that used to be famous has been dead and gone for years. A young man I know from where I live in Wyoming went to college in ND and made the move permanent. Until recently (transferred to a town further south in ND) he was a policemen in one of the small towns further west and reported seeing the "fields of white" every year north of his home. Without a place to stay and his house already crowded, I never gave it a whack. 100+ miles to drive each way meant a 2:00 am wake up call. Maybe this year I will put up with the 2 o'clock alarm. Sure isn't anywhere to stay further west. I still miss the way it was. Who knows, maybe the migration patterns will shift back.


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

I'm not much of a snow hunter nor an old timer but plenty of birds still come through the DL region, which I guess I wouldn't call too far west. My grandfather used to spend a week near Westhope every year for 20-30 years starting in the 1970's hunting snows and they would usually go over MEA weekend (~20th of Oct.) and have thousands around. Just seems like the majority of them stay in Canada as long as they possibly can now.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

All good reasons for the change. Another may be that ND once had a systm of state refuges seperate from USFW refuges. The birds had a staircase of safety from hunting pressure all down the ND flyway. That is long gone.


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## headshot (Oct 26, 2006)

Here's a thought....Maybe the nesting ground are moving due to habitat destruction, thus shifting the migration.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

I am going to be 50 years old, when I first started hunting almost 40 years ago most of the time in SE nd we had snow geese show up about opener the first week of Oct and build through out the fall until freeze up. As we progressed through the dry periods of the late 70's and 80's almost every roosting spot disappeared. They followed the river and about that time a couple of reservoirs where built and filled in Canada as well to the west. Farming practices changed as well more crop land less pasture.

What I believe has kept the migration to the west is simply the fact that so many snow geese are living a long time. With birds harvested with bands over 20+ years old. It stands to reason that these birds are following the path back and forth they first flew from the breeding grounds. Just as they did for years and years piling into the DL region and areas south and east.

Drought, wet cycles etc.. do affect this, but the constant water supply for the last 20 years is been just that constant. No changes in that path of great significance. This lack of change has not created a need for new migration paths to move back east. I do not see it moving back east in the numbers we use to have any time soon if ever.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I just want to clarify that I don't think the whole migration route has shifted just the borders. Particularly the eastern border. Probably 20 miles E of Devils lake seems to be the edge where number really break off. I know many MN guys complain that they don't see very many S & Bs any more and I suspect the shift hit them too. I'm not sure if the loss of state refuges has had that much impact or not. 30-40 years ago maybe 10% of the land was posted. Essentially everyone could hunt anywhere and the refuges were the only safety for the birds. I'm guessing thats closer to 80% now and kind of takes the jumpshooters out of the picture and functions as refuge areas.


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## J.D. (Oct 14, 2002)

I dont know about the migration through North Dakota, but the snow goose migration through Nebraska and Kansas has defiantly shifted to the west. In my opinion, the shift west through these states is due to significantly less hunting pressure the farther west you go.


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## goosegrinder (Mar 4, 2005)

> I dont know about the migration through North Dakota, but the snow goose migration through Nebraska and Kansas has defiantly shifted to the west. In my opinion, the shift west through these states is due to significantly less hunting pressure the farther west you go.


Very true. I believe even a bigger reason is how the land is farmed. When I hunted the Tekamah(Missouri River) area for years, the farmers went from leaving stubble to discing up the ground as soonas it was harvested;leaving very little for birds to eat. Add in the lack of water for a few years and the migration along the Missouri here went downhill steadily over the last few seasons I hunted it.

Alex


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

All interesting points. One of you mentioned my favorite location. In between flights and scouting runs, I used to run the refuge fence and pick up empty 3 1/2" 12ga. and 10 ga. hulls for my reloading by looking for "shooter nests" along the ditches. I haven't even seen mashed down grass where hunters would lay and wait to pass shoot for some time. Anyone got a bunch of 10 ga. hulls? Please!
Ron makes a very compelling point. Drought years did dry up the refuge pretty bad and we thought that once the water returned, so would the birds. I should have thought about imprinting. If the goslings mature and then return to the exact location where they hatched to breed and nest, they very well may lock in on their original migration route. Even as learned behavior, it would become very strong after a few years. Sort of like walleyes returning to specific spawning grounds after their first spawn or two. 
One of my friends here hammered the snows in Canada last year for a few weeks. One member of his crew had already been there for 3 weeks. When the birds moved south, they followed. The biggest swarms passed over the border about where I suspected they would. 100 miles or so to the west of where I have the best access and a "home away from home" with friends. I am not sure what I will do this year. My one friend is getting up there in years and Parkinson's does affect him. I may go, just to be there. I can always shoot some sharptails in the afternoons. Maybe the drilling activity will push the geese back toward the east and the new juvies will imprint on the new (old?) route. Not likely, those birds will eat around anything, but it never hurts to wish for the best!


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