# Sioux nickname could be dropped in 3 years unless tribes OK



## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

http://www.startribune.com/503/story/1510113.html

*Sioux nickname could be dropped in 3 years unless tribes OK it *
Associated Press 
Last update: October 26, 2007 - 11:56 AM

GRAND FORKS, N.D. - The state Board of Higher Education settled a lawsuit with the NCAA over the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux nickname, giving the school three years to get tribal approval to keep it.

The board voted unanimously Friday to approve the settlement after a closed-door briefing from Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem. If the school does not get approval from the Spirit Lake Sioux and Standing Rock Sioux tribes by Nov. 30, 2010, it will have to change to a new name and logo.

"The settlement confirms that the Sioux people and no one else should decide whether and how their name should be used,'' Bernard Franklin, an NCAA senior vice president, said in a statement.

The NCAA in 2005 banned the use of the nickname in postseason play, labeling it hostile and abusive. UND sued to challenge the ban last year and got a temporary order allowing the use of the nickname and logo while the case moved through court.

Eighteen schools originally were on a 2005 list of NCAA offenders using offensive American Indian nicknames and logos. A number of schools made changes while some won appeals with support from area tribes.

"I think it's important to remember that without this lawsuit, we would have been immediately subjected to the NCAA restrictions,'' Stenehjem said. "We had no options but to proceed to court.''

North Dakota tribal officials have said the three-year period allowed in the settlement puts undue pressure on them. Standing Rock Chairman Ron His Horse is Thunder and Devils Lake Sioux Chairwoman Myra Pearson could not immediately be reached Friday for comment.

"We are not going to be fighting this in 10 years, in 20 years, in 30 years,'' Stenehjem said. "This is an issue that needs to be resolved, needs to be concluded.''

If approval of the nickname is withdrawn later from either tribe, the waiver also will be withdrawn, the agreement states.

The North Dakota lawsuit cost an estimated $2 million in legal fees and services. Stenehjem said it was paid with private donations.

If the nickname is changed, UND would have to remove most of its Indian imagery on its Grand Forks campus. It could keep historical items and items embedded in the architecture, under the agreement.

Officials have estimated UND's Ralph Engelstad Arena has at least 3,000 Fighting Sioux logos, including a 10-foot sketch of an Indian head embedded in the granite floor.

The settlement includes a statement by the NCAA calling UND is a "national leader in offering educational programs to Native Americans.''

Board of Higher Education President John Q. Paulsen said he was pleased by the recognition.

"The University of North Dakota deserves to have its honor restored in terms of its long-standing commitment to programs for Native American students,'' Paulsen said.

_____________________-

Not sure what happened to this article, as I posted it up here on this forum yesterday. I guess the PC cops deleted it. :roll: And if the PC cops delete this topic again, you at least owe me an expalination why you are deleting it as it violates no NODak rules.

I am sure this turn of events in the article is not setting well with many ND residents and alumni of the school. I have friend of mine that is alumni of the school and he is really ticked off about this.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Dakota and Lakota tribal leaders spurned a settlement announced Friday that would allow the University of North Dakota time to seek approval to keep using the controversial "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo.

"I think they're going to try to buy use of the name," said Jesse Taken Alive, a Standing Rock tribal council member. "They've already tried to do that here at Standing Rock."

Terms of a settlement reached Friday between the university and the NCAA require UND to begin to abandon the controversial nickname and logo in three years - unless it gets the approval of two specific tribes, the Standing Rock Sioux and Spirit Lake Dakota.

Some members of Standing Rock and other Sioux tribes complained that UND's offers of new scholarship programs for American Indian students constituted an effort to win support of usage of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo, an allegation university officials denied.

The Spirit Lake tribal council passed a resolution in 2000 that offers conditional support for the nickname, but Myra Pearson, chairwoman of the Spirit Lake tribe, was quoted in August saying she does not read the resolution as supporting the nickname.

The Standing Rock Sioux passed a resolution opposing "Fighting Sioux" in 2001, and many of its leaders continue to be outspoken critics.

Pearson couldn't be reached for comment Friday. However, Ron His Horse is Thunder, chairman of the Standing Rock tribe, said he and Pearson were shown the proposed agreement, and both expressed their disapproval.

"Her reaction was along the same lines as mine," he told the Grand Forks Herald. "It's trying to buy Indians by treating them nicely and giving them alcohol at hockey games that she objected to."

Michael Selvage, chairman of the Sisseton-Wahpeton Dakota tribe, which has its headquarters in Agency Village, S.D., but has tribal lands in North Dakota, said his tribe should not have been excluded in the settlement.

The tribe - which is on record opposing use of Dakota names for sports teams or mascots - is recognized as an official North Dakota tribe by the state of North Dakota, he said.

"I am opposed to using Dakota nicknames and logos and images," Selvage said. "It's not right, and a lot of it becomes denigrated."

David Gipp, president of United Tribes Technical College in Bismarck and a Standing Rock member, said resolutions opposing the nickname by many tribes "cannot be swept aside.

"Allowing a three-year period to influence the tribes leaves the door open for UND and its agents to continue their meddling in the social and political affairs of tribal nations, causing untold damage in the lives of good people and families who only wish to have their ways and heritage respected," Gipp said.

Many American Indian leaders said the university can't control unofficial uses of the nickname and logo, which fans of opposing teams repeatedly have caricatured in humiliating racial stereotypes.

Intense rivalries can bring out bigoted slogans and images that hurt American Indian people, said Joe Brings Plenty Sr., chairman of the Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe in South Dakota.

"What I see that ultimately comes out of it is that ugliness and racism," he said. "It means categorizing, stereotyping, racism against my people, my children. No people in the world should have to live with that stress, with that fear."

UND and its backers should accept that the Lakota Sioux tribes never will grant approval of the "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo, Brings Plenty said.

"They can dangle all the scholarships they want," he said. "It's not going to affect us. Our people have never been known to lay down. They've always fought."


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Looks like no Sioux tribe will go for it.And they are right......start looking for a new name and quit wasteing money on the old one.


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## Springerguy (Sep 10, 2003)

I'm a UND alumni and still a big fan of Sioux hockey. And it looks like my daughter will be heading to UND next fall. I was opposed to changing the name but if the tribes don't want the logo/name then the heck with it. Take down every logo and reference to fighting sioux and replace it with the Rough Riders. Not sure if you could make a logo out of a cavalry trooper charging with guidon in hand but it would be cool and honor Teddy and the men of the Rough Riders.

Of course, I'll need to repaint my son's room since he has a wall sized mural of the fighting sioux logo.

I'm sure any reference to the cav would offend someone. So, maybe we should stick with the agribusiness in the community. The Rugged Russett Potatoes or maybe the Sugar Beets. The mascot could be a life sized version of Mr. Potatoe Head.

Please....let's not go back to the Flickertails - I have way too much fun referring to all of those Gopher fans at work as rodent lovers.

Any other good names?


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## bandman (Feb 13, 2006)

Solution-"Fightin' Cowboys". The brokeback jokes might get to be a little much though. :lol:


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## gyjoe (Oct 28, 2006)

I say change the name to "Fighting Sue" and make the necessary modification to the logo.


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## NDJ (Jun 11, 2002)

drop the name...& drop the handouts paid to allow them to use name...


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

How about name them after the man that brought equality to all... Abraham Lincoln some how...

Better yet the Fightin Suzys... :lol:


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## cabella (Aug 18, 2007)

I come from a long line of college hockey players and one of my uncle's played hockey for UND in the late 70's. He is dead set on the name and the logo remaining the same. I do disagree. I feel that if something is offending someone else, then change. I am a mix breed of German, French and Irish. (I just call myself Minnesotan.) I dont think that I have any Native American in my family tree, however, what does it matter. I feel that the Fighting Sioux nickname and logo is wrong. Im personally not offended by it but I can completly understand why someone may feel it is. For those people I feel that UND should just change the name and logo. Why is it that UND is fighting so hard for something that is offencive to someone. The name and the logo are hurting to some, that should be enough to not fight it and just change it.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

cabella,

I agree. Why keep a mascot that a vocal few find offensive. In the same breath, why keep the excellent native american studies programs that UND has had in place for years.

On the other hand, I am sick and tired of hearing how the poor native american tribes are being taken advantage of by the nasty white men. Lets take all the casino's and the crime and suffering they generate and stuff them up the native americans' ***. Then we will hear some real whining.

Jim


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I can clearly understand how the Sioux tribes feel.It isn't how they are treated by UND Jhegg.But when they see how the UND name is made fun of by opposing schools.....that would burn my @ss also.Like yelling Sioux Sucs.You wouldn't find those things offensive if you were them?I bet you would.

My Minnesota HS was called the Chiefs.They changed their name.Some alumni were upset.They got over it.So will UND alumni.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

I personally would like to see the Sioux name stay alive. For all you that are saying that it should be changed because it is hostile and abusive towards the tribe are the same people that saying this country is filled with too many PC people and too much PC bulls#$-isnt that being hipocritical??. Never once has it been UNDs' perogotive to disrespect the tribe-always honoring them.

IMO, 
This is how America will eventually fall, too many people making a big scene on issues that dont mean any good to our society-Let me ask you this-Will the Sioux tribe be any better off once or if the nickname is changed?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

The tribes aren't saying that UND is being disrespectfull.....from the article....

"Many American Indian leaders said the university can't control unofficial uses of the nickname and logo, which fans of opposing teams repeatedly have caricatured in humiliating racial stereotypes."

This is what it is about.Not if UND treats the name with respect or honor....how can anyone control what other people say or do about the nickname at an athletic contest?They have a right to complain.We have all heard Sioux Suc and a whole lot worse at UND away games being televised.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Ken, are they saying the hockey team "sucks" or the Native American Tribe


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

The UND atletic teams as quoted by Bison fans and especially Gopher Hockey fans.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

So because at an athletic event, the opposing team says that they (UND) sucks even tho they are losing 10-0, they have to change their name?!?! BS


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Ken,
By the same logic, I suppose I should have been offended when Randy Moss "pretended" to moon the packer fans. Since I am of Norwegian heritage, should I be offended by the Vikings? This pc bull**** has gone too far. Give it a rest!
Jim


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## NDnowGA (Jul 5, 2007)

I'm a UND alum. They need to Pay the tribe off like Florida did, give them a percentage of sales on items with the logo on them.

If they don't take the deal, drop the programs that hold out slots for native americans in the law school, med school, etc. My understanding is that it is only a few people making noise.

Also, cut off the fed money going to them. If you have time on your hands, google the fed budget and look at how much money goes to them every year. It is alot.


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## lundq (Feb 21, 2005)

In 1930, the tribal elders gave UND the green light to use the Sioux name, even made the college president an honorary chief (99% sure on that one). These were men that probably lived through some pretty terrible times for the Sioux nation (late 1800's). I'm guessing that they were 70+ years old. Wouldn't they have know that the word Sioux was a degrading term? For a bunch of people who tout their respect for the their ancestors, they don't seem to care that the elders already made this decision once. I do feel it is an honor to the Sioux of long ago. Not the bunch we're dealing with now.

That said, I think the name will end up changing. Maybe it will be time to part ways with the name and the many programs this school has made available to Native Americans. We won't be reminded of the Sioux that's a part of North Dakota's history when we attend UND sporting events. The Sioux that gallantly fought for their land and way of life will be in a history book only. Kind of sad.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I think all the Scandenavians in the area should go and protest at ths St. Thomas and St. Johns games. Johnnies and Tommies have been said to suck at times too!!!


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## cabella (Aug 18, 2007)

The only fault that I feel UND has in this situation is that they are fighting to keep the name. IMO UND has the right to fight for the name, however, who owns the name? It's pretty obvious who owns the name. Some Native Americans are offended by the nickname and logo, and it is within their rights to ask for UND to stop using it. Now, I feel that UND should give up. It's not offensive to me, but it is obviously offensive to someone (someone being a large percentige of a tribal community), so why not change?


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Dan, 
I agree - come on over and have a McKewans Scotch Ale with me 8)


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Cabella, if you look at the big picture, you will see this everywhere-If you want to start picking things apart and find out who feels certain things are "disrespectful", your going to run into a long list of things-This is just one group taking advantage of their past and trying to make people feel sorry for them. "Man is created equal"-just cause your a different race or ethnic group, dont try and make others think that they owe you something because of your peoples past.

Like I said earlier, team nicknames should be at the bottom of the priority list. There are more important tasks at hand


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Easy to see no one here belongs to the Sioux tribes isn't it?

They have the final say.......In the court settlement..... UND,the ND Attorney General and the Board of Higher Ed has agreed that the tribes will have the final say......so no one else really counts do they?Including all of us here and our opinions.

"If the school does not get approval from the Spirit Lake Sioux and Standing Rock Sioux tribes by Nov. 30, 2010, it will have to change to a new name and logo."

Even if they agree today,does UND really want to live with the following agreement......" If approval of the nickname is withdrawn later from either tribe, the waiver also will be withdrawn, the agreement states."

Anyone want to bet UND will have a new nickname in 3 years?


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## cabella (Aug 18, 2007)

I agree USSapper with its pretty pathetic when it comes to the priority list, however I just feel that if someone is offended for the right reasons then they should drop it. I know there are more facts that I dont know about and maybe I am completly wrong, my wife makes sure that I am almost always wrong. So , I feel it should be UND changing the name if the Native americans want that for the RIGHT reasons....


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Cabella...Are you calling me your wife? I guess you could say that times are a changin,.......... and I dont like it :wink: -I just hear all you guys talking about this world of PC bullcrap we live in and here is a prime example of it, this one just hits a little closer to home


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

Time to move forward, suggestions for new name.

"Laughing Clowns" :beer:


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

I like "The Minnesotan Weasles" for the gophs


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

USSapper said:


> I like "The Minnesotan Weasles" for the gophs


Gophers are not offended by the use of their names, so no reason to change the name. But if were called the "Dirt Eating Gophers" then there might be a protest.....


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

jhegg said:


> Dan,
> I agree - come on over and have a McKewans Scotch Ale with me 8)


 uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

djleye said:


> I think all the Scandenavians in the area should go and protest at ths St. Thomas and St. Johns games. Johnnies and Tommies have been said to suck at times too!!!


Whew!!! Glad they are not playing the Danny's


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## Tracker21 (Jul 9, 2007)

So what happens to the Ralph if they change the name then? Thought I heard something about it being written in the contract he made with the school that if they ever changed their name they had to lock the doors to it.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

> "I think they're going to try to buy use of the name," said Jesse Taken Alive, a Standing Rock tribal council member. "They've already tried to do that here at Standing Rock."


Actually I believe one of the tribal leaders indicated that they would support the name if UND gave MORE recognition and support to the tribe. So who is buying who?

While tribal "leaders" indicate it is offensive you could probably grab the average members off the street and they wouldn't give a "rats" one way or the other.

Funny how the Sioux tribes seem to be prowd of their "fighitng" ability till someone else trys to use it.

People are going to use derogitory terms no matter what the name is. Anyone with common sense knows that and does not take it personally. And i'm not sure I have ever even seen a NA at a game so who is there to be offended.

When the name is lost so will, I fear, a lot of recognition of the tribes. It seem to be one of the positive things that helps keep the image of the tribal historyalive to the general public.

"When" they do have to change the name I kind of like what they have been using as a logo for the last few years "FORCE of the north.


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## Turner (Oct 7, 2005)

When the name changes what will there be in the area to bring attention to the Native Americans that they can show pride in? The casino's, the run down reservations you drive through in ND, or the drunks sitting out front of the Native American Outreach house in downtown Fargo, that is what comes to mind for me.

As far as nick names. 
UND was known once as the Flickertails. That would be funny, the Flickertails vs the Gophers

Or how about calling them the Sueing Fighters?

Once UND coughs up some more hand outs to the Sioux Tribes it will no longer be offensive to them, any one want to bet on that?


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## swany25 (Sep 3, 2005)

Why would the tribes be offended? The UND FIGHTING SIOUX are one of the nation's top hockey teams, they should be proud the school would wan't to use their name. A native american designed the logo for the school.

In my opinion the tribes are looking for some profits.

You cant please everyone and I bet there are a lot more people for the name than against it.

Some people should stop crying and shut the front door!


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## Alamosa (Mar 25, 2005)

When I go to a reservation I see them all wearing sports logos from the Braves, Indians, and Redskins. It makes me think that that the native Americans aren't really the ones objecting, or only a vocal minority are.

U of Southern Colorado was forced by political correctness to change from the 'Indians' to the 'Thunderwolves'. They should change again.

How about 'Fighting Irish'?


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## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

Isnt that how it goes the squeaky wheel get the grease?... I graduated Central in 92 and we were the first and only class to not graduate with a mascot... and I agree about the vocal minority... isnt that what history has taught everyone... if you dont speak up... your gonna have to live with it... and the whole "just cuz it offends someone" speach is bs too... thats why your kids cant play dodgeball in school anymore.... someones feelings are hurt... welcome to life


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## Johnny Tsunami (Nov 10, 2007)

I am gonna give you my recommendation for a new nickname that is truly befitting the modern day University of North Dakota --

UND Capons!!

Imagine the logo, rooster with its nuggets clipped, head hanging down in shame and embarrassment.


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## Johnny Tsunami (Nov 10, 2007)

Let's look at the some stats for both groups...

UND Fighting SIOUX -

The College of Business and Public Administration has been reaccredited by the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business, the premier accrediting agency for business colleges worldwide. Less than 10 percent of the world's business schools have earned accreditation from AACSB International.

The School of Medicine and Health Sciences has been named a Center of Excellence

2007 Hobey Baker Memorial Award winner

How about the Standing Rock SIOUX Tribe 

Unemployment percentage rate: 79%

In the area of economic development the Standing Rock SIOUX Tribe currently operates the Prairie Knights Casino and Lodge and Grand River Casino

The women of Standing Rock are the poorest group in the entire country

Academic standing was rated in the bottom 5% in language arts, math and science. The drop-out rate is far above the national average, while the graduation rate is well below the national average.

My question is which group brings more PRIDE to the SIOUX name?

My next question is what can be done to help the Standing Rock Sioux tribe to live up to the high standards that UND has set for the Sioux name?


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## dogdexter1 (Sep 6, 2007)

The minority will always rule!

They should take a state wide vote whether or not to keep the name. 500,000 people would agree to keep the name and 1,200 would want to get rid of it.

The Fighting Souix name and logo are in no way offensive, racist or demeaning.

I cannot beleive how racist the Native Americans are being in this situation. To deny a race of people somthing is racism. How can they call us racists without looking in the mirror.

We use the name Fighting Souix to honor a culture and a group of people, their vitality and will to win on the battle feild. How is that in any way shape of form racism. i dont think "because we said so" is a good enough answer.

They are compairing the souix name and logo to the black mans use of the N word. Strictly for themselves. Which is racism.

The name is not French Souix or weak Souix or defeated Souix its fighting Souix.

If this fight does go south i beleive the Native Americans should be held responsible for all costs incrued for removing the logo, they should also be held responsible for all the costs to outfit the campus with the new logo.


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## SiouxperDave25 (Oct 6, 2002)

http://bismarcktribune.com/articles/200 ... 143288.txt



> University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux - that's a nice sounding name. The Standing Rock Warriors, also a nice sounding name,and the Solen Sioux and the Eagle Butte Bravesand so forth. Like all race issues, this one is centered on a unstable platform. There are those who disagree with the name, and on the other side, those who do not, and somewhere in between, those who could not care less. We use ourselves as a mascot when we see fit but disagree when others do the same, the first contradiction.
> 
> Being a member of the Great Sioux Nation is no different to me than being a citizen of the United States. Those who would call me a sell-out or by any other derogatory name, I call lost - lost, in the sense that although their opinion is their own, it contradicts their everyday lifestyles. Unless they're still living in a tipi and hunting and gathering their food year around, then their opinion means as much to me as the UND Fighting Sioux name does.
> 
> ...


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

IF they are going to change Fighting Souix, then they need to change the Redskins. I personaly dont think that they should change it because I dont see how it is offensive in anyway. I wont care if there would be a team called the raging ******** or the wild whites.remember that the minoritys rule this country becasue now days we cannot offend anybody, even if its less then one percent of teh population.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I agree about the Redskins.....but they don't belong to the NCAA.

You opinion or mine don't count.....only members of the Sioux tribe get to decide.We can try if influence them,but in the end.....they decide.

My guess is in agreement with the Fargo Forum editorial yesterday.....do it and get it over with because it will surely have to be changed.


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## Daren99 (Jul 6, 2006)

I would think the name brings more pride to the Sioux tribes then shame. The "Fighting Sioux" to me should bring a feeling of pride to the tribes in a time when there isn't much to be proud of anymore. To me the name emits pride. If it was the fighting slot machines then they would have something to [email protected] about. :lol:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Another question about changing the name. Did the Souix Nation have a problem with the name before the NCAA got involved?


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## cabella (Aug 18, 2007)

What about the name "The Fighting Irish"? Is that hurting anyone? I'm Irish...


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Yes, Im Irish an thats hurts me very deeply :eyeroll: 
No, in all seroiusness, it doesnt not affend me at all. So not trying to be mean or racist, IMO the Fighting Sioux needs to stay because it doesnt hurt anybody, this all started when people started sueing other people or dumb stuff.


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## lundq (Feb 21, 2005)

The NCAA never said the name was offensive. They said it was "hostile and abusive". I don't think anyone (against or for the name) can argue that the name was used at the school in a hostile or abusive manner. Now the question is if it's offensive or not. Nice how the NCAA walks away from this whole deal and hands it off to the Sioux to handle. If the name gets changed, the NCAA will say: "see, we told you" and if it doesn't they can say: "well, it's ok with the tribe so we don't care". IMHO, I think UND should have told the NCAA to go pound sand instead of making a deal but that's just me. 

Archie Fool Bear wrote something like the article SiouxperDave posted, back in 2006 and it ran in then Minneapolis Star Tribune. Funny, I don't think it ever ran up here. I'm glad to see the other side (within the Sioux Tribe) finally stand up and are heard.


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## Tracker21 (Jul 9, 2007)

Could they say anthing about if UND kept the symbol and changed the name?


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## lundq (Feb 21, 2005)

Don't quote me but I thought the people against the nickname had a problem with the "name and logo".


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

Daren99 said:


> I would think the name brings more pride to the Sioux tribes then shame. The "Fighting Sioux" to me should bring a feeling of pride to the tribes in a time when there isn't much to be proud of anymore. To me the name emits pride. *If it was the fighting slot machines *then they would have something to [email protected] about. :lol:


Pride must be oozing off of the reservations with stereotypes such as this or the "drunken indian" gerneralzations that have been voiced here. Seems having the name "Fighting Sioux" hasn't done anything to change the image of these once proud people in some peoples mind.


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## Turner (Oct 7, 2005)

Sitting Bull, Lakota Medicine Man and Chief was considered the last Sioux to surrender to the U.S. Government.
In the early 1850s, the Lakota (Sioux) had begun to feel the pressure of the white expansion into the Western United States.

I got a feeling some tribal elder wants to be known as the Sioux who didn't surrender.

From what I have read, it seems that the name change isn't the voice of the Sioux Tribe, it's just a select few.


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## range 2 (Feb 10, 2005)

We do we have to listen to the tribes aren't they a sovereign nation?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

range 2 said:


> We do we have to listen to the tribes aren't they a sovereign nation?


No you don't,......you can keep the name and not participate in any playoffs in any sports 3 years from now.


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## hammerhead (Dec 22, 2004)

I'm not really 100% sure but i believe you can participate in playoff games, you just can't host any playoff games.


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## Daren99 (Jul 6, 2006)

Goldhunter,

IMO the "Fighting Sioux" image is the only positive image I see for the ND Native American community these days and thats not even coming from them. Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about native americans except from media reports, and very little if any of that is positive. So you would think they would embrace it.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

From what I saw in the paper today......the Higher Ed Board will meet in the next couple weeks to make the decision.....they can order UND to make the changes.If that happens there will be a change very quickly not 3 years form now.

Sounds like there is no way the Standing Rock tribe will give it's OK.Spirit Lake tribe hasn't made a decision.....if that's so......so long "Fighting Sioux"

Better start thinking about a replacement name.


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## Neanderthal (Oct 30, 2007)

I think we should consider what we DID to the Native American population in the first place! IMO, and I'm German-Bohemian, the Native population has the right to screw with us any way they possibly can for slaughtering their women and children and decimating their culture only a little over a hundred years ago. Not to mention the way we went about it. More of the people that don't already know about it need to learn the history of the "Battle of Whitestone Hill", for example. Research this. We killed nearly all the men, women and children, that were preparing buffalo meat for survival through the winter. Somewhere near 100,000 pounds! Let's just destroy their food source and some of their women. That should de-moralize them to the point where we can safely steal all of their land.That is just one example of how our government slaughtered the Native Americans and their main food source, the buffalo, so we could lay claim to everything in sight. I think the Native Americans have earned the right to have their name-names used or not used any darn way they see fit! We destroyed their society, after all, that functioned much better than ours ever will. I know none of you want to hear this, but the truth is usually the most unpopular, no matter what the situation, now days.


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## Tracker21 (Jul 9, 2007)

Did any one else catch the new when they were showing the meeting with the standing rock tribe? The one guy was going on about how african americans aren't called the N-word anymore and all this but he said it like 5 times and that was just in a short clip. To me thats disrespectfull too.


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## Daren99 (Jul 6, 2006)

It would be nice if the people of ND would show their support of UND and not patronize the casinos on the reservations, maybe they would understand the importance of this issue to the state.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Sorry......but I really don't think most people except UND alumni think this is important.No one will care 5 years after the change.Just like most people don't care that Dickinson State changed their name from Savages to Blue Hawks.

And as for their cassinos.....if you don't like them.....don't go.I don't gamble.So I could care less if they are there.


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## Springerguy (Sep 10, 2003)

Ken,

I have to disagree with you on one point. I am a UND alumni and I could care less about the Sioux logo. At one point, it was an issue for me but now that the NCAA is apply the same rules regarding use of the logo I'm fine if it's retired. If the tribes, or their leaders, don't want the logo than get rid of it along with any and all reference to "Sioux". Mark my word........five years from now when it's the UND Rough Riders or just "UND" most of the same crowd that started this issue will be pi**ing and moaning that noone but the reservation schools are using the nicknames of warrior, sioux, etc. If this was all about abuse and misuse of the logo/nickname they wouldn't have such name associated with many of the native american schools...at least one would think. For the most part, it seems the same crowd that likes to stir up controversy - once this issue is over you'll see the same talking heads going on about some other perceived crisis.


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## Daren99 (Jul 6, 2006)

Honestly, as far as I'm concernerd I could care less if they changed the name. I'm just sick and tired of all the politically correct BS we have to deal with anymore. If you're a minority you have more rights than than the majority, seems to me this country was set up on a majority rule system. You can't have prayer in schools for fear of offending an aethiest, you have to have signs, labels and other things in at least two different languages so as not to offend illegal aliens, affirmative action and so on and so forth. I don't understand what happened to "majority rules"


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Your are very correct about the miniority having all the power. I personally think that they should have a voice but they shouldnt rule us. I dont see why its only the NCAA trying to change the names? They are other more important things that the NCAA should be worrying about. I think that the name should stay but it wont affect me if it does. I think that once that name changes, there will be more and more things that the minorites are wanting to change.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Springerguy.....good point.Opponents can still make fun of the HS nicknames and caricatures that the tribes have I guess.

Not to sure they will go with Roughriders.....GF Red River is already the Roughriders.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

I support the name as is but if they do change it, I hope theyll go with Force of the North or Fighting force- I can guarantee to you all that even if the name does change, the sioux jersey will be worn by hundreds to games in the future


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