# Hens



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I went goose hunting on Sunday and right away the ducks were flying in and I counted about 20 ducks and at least 15 of them were hens. Is that normal? And last Saturday the same thing happend when i was hunt water in the afternoon. the only ducks I saw were hens.


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

Its not uncommon.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

Very normal for me and Bill the Chessy :lol: 
Good luck,
Dan


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

I would say an entire group of hens is very rare this time of the year.

Typically the later in the year, the more drakes you will see, as many times the hens will migrate out earlier.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Would I be wrong to shoot a hen then? That was the first time we have seen mallards hunting this year. Early season we got into a ton of woodies and a few teal.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

If you want to shot a hen then do it. But read the regulations.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

Why would you be wrong to shoot a hen? 
Good gunning,
Dan


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

the limit in MN is one hen. I just thought tht we are not suppose to shoot hens, because they re the ones that lay the eggs.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

dfisher said:


> Why would you be wrong to shoot a hen?
> Good gunning,
> Dan


Dead hens don't lay eggs.


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## CuttinDaisies (Nov 15, 2007)

You can't stock pile birds. We're shooting the surplus population that would die from other causes anyways. If you want to shoot a hen, do it, it will not have any negative affect.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

djleye said:


> dfisher said:
> 
> 
> > Why would you be wrong to shoot a hen?
> ...


I know, but I've ate a lot of hen mallards in my life and there is still a lot of them around. Hence, the all hen flock :lol: 
Good luck
Dan


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Die from what other causes? Surplus ducks? If there is a surplus lets up the bag limit and extend the ND season!

I am with dijleye. I just feel when you kill a hen your actually killing numerous ducks.

But that is just my preference and my opinion. If your legal to shoot one and you feel like doing it then have at it.


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## hoosier dhr (Jul 24, 2003)

I try not to shoot hens but cant say ive never done it.

Are u sure they werent gadwals???


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

hoosier dhr said:


> Are u sure they werent gadwals???


 :lol: oke:


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

I don't have a problem with shooting hens. I don't "target" hens by any means but if I shoot one I don't get in a tizzy about it. If the USFW didn't want us to shoot hens they wouldn't allow one in the bag limit.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

Shoot for the green but if you get a brown one, don't sweat it. You haven't ruined the world as we know it. Just don't shoot another one. 
Good luck,
Dan


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## hoosier dhr (Jul 24, 2003)

here in IN u can shoot 4 mallards *2 *of which can be hens
Here is my limit yesterday.


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

nice limit.
Dan :beer:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

no they werent gadwals


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## CuttinDaisies (Nov 15, 2007)

Leo Porcello said:


> Die from what other causes? Surplus ducks? If there is a surplus lets up the bag limit and extend the ND season!
> 
> I am with dijleye. I just feel when you kill a hen your actually killing numerous ducks.
> 
> But that is just my preference and my opinion. If your legal to shoot one and you feel like doing it then have at it.


Sorry, don't have an hour or two to type up a quick research paper for ya. But its all about statisitcs and how waterfowl populations work naturally. 
For example, if there are 100 total ducks in the population, 20 will die throughout the year, if hunters kill 18, 2 will die of other causes. If hunters kill 2, 18 will die of other causes. Or if hunters kill 20, 0 will die of other causes... theoretically. 
There's more science to setting bag limits and restrictions than pond counts and spring breeding surveys.

I don't think anyone targets hens specifically, but in the end if a hen is killed, there is no long term affect.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

thanks, i just thought that poeple would look down on shooting hens. I went hunting a guy a once and get got mad when i shot a hen woodie once. I know that shooting hens is an opionion, but i juts wanted to here what more people thought about it. I dont target them.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

CuttinDaisies said:


> For example, if there are 100 total ducks in the population, 20 will die throughout the year, if hunters kill 18, 2 will die of other causes. If hunters kill 2, 18 will die of other causes. Or if hunters kill 20, 0 will die of other causes... theoretically.


So theoroetically if hunters kill 20 another 20 could die of other causes? Not trying to be a jerk. Just trying to figure the therories out.

I am not sure if anyone targets hens on purpose. I do know that a bunch go by the "if it flies it dies" theory and I guess if those guys have more hens come in then drakes in time it will have an effect and then you add all the other factors of preditors, habitat, weather,...I would guess the more hens out there the better.

But like I stated above that is just my simple uneducated opinion. And if it is legal and it is what you want to do then shoot those hens. I just choose to pass and I won't deny that I have taken down a hen or two in my life. Colorblindness makes it tough at times and yes the occasional mistake hen happens.

The main thing is have a great time out there. I don't think anyone will knock you for that!


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## CuttinDaisies (Nov 15, 2007)

Leo Porcello said:


> So theoroetically if hunters kill 20 another 20 could die of other causes? Not trying to be a jerk. Just trying to figure the therories out.


yeah, maybe do to some catastrophic event, but in an average year (if there is such a thing), probably not. The example I used was to explain the idea behind a surplus population.

But no matter how much I say shooting hens doesn't matter, I do try and practice "voluntary restraint" as much as possible. Just adds a little bit more to the hunt for me.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

I kill one hen a week.

They band them too.


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## CuttinDaisies (Nov 15, 2007)

who cares about bands? I still haven't had a well cooked band, they all taste like aluminum to me.


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## malspeck (Nov 21, 2005)

dfisher said:


> Shoot for the green but if you get a brown one, don't sweat it. You haven't ruined the world as we know it. Just don't shoot another one.
> Good luck,
> Dan


I agree dfisher! When I take my sons hunting I tell them to the shoot drake of any species but you shoot a hen then oh well I'm not going to ruin his day by lecturing or my day worrying if I shoot a hen. He asked me a question the other day which I don't know and it was why are hunters so hard up about female ducks when you can't tell a female goose from a male goose. I told him I haven't the slighest clue!


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## fylling35 (Jun 15, 2007)

> He asked me a question the other day which I don't know and it was why are hunters so hard up about female ducks when you can't tell a female goose from a male goose. I told him I haven't the slighest clue!


I never thought of it that way! I love the way kids think!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I have a question for those out there......does a Drake just pair up with one hen or do they mate with many?

Because I have heard from biologist that one rooster can breed 10 hens. So is it the same with ducks?


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## sameyer (Aug 22, 2007)

I was thinking about this and it occurred to me that we cannot distinguish between male/female in many of the bird species we hunt and yet those birds such as geese, grouse, doves.......all seem to flourish. Mallards, at least as near as I can tell, nest in breeding pairs and so that would seem to dictate there should be a drake for every hen. Am I missing something here?

At the same time, I was socialized to hunting in the old school way where you avoided taking females of most any type of game when you could tell the difference. Of course modern deer managment has shown that we were not exactly doing the deer a favor by shooting only bucks.

Here in Alaska duck season opens September 1 and it is extremely difficult to determine sex in mallards unless they are in your lap. There is no restriction here for hens but I believe most of the hunters here prefer to shoot drakes but don't consider it a cardinal sin when you shoot a hen.

My question is why are mallards the only duck (at least that I am aware of) that is restricted by sex? I know the obvious, to promote a healthier mallard population, but why just mallards? Is is because they are more identifiable by sex than most. Seems like if the salvation of hens was truly a population managment issue then any species that is restricted would also be restricted by sex. Obviously in the case of say pheasants, were a rooster will have numeous hens then the more hens you have to a point, the better. But with ducks that doesn't seem to be the case.

At any rate, not advocating targeting hen mallards, (who wouldn't rather have a brace of gorgeous drakes for the hunting picture) but certainly don't feel bad if you happen to shoot one. Would really appreciate anyone who has some hard evidence one way or another on the subject.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

CuttinDaisies said:


> who cares about bands? I still haven't had a well cooked band, they all taste like aluminum to me.


Band envy.


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## Bucky Goldstein (Jun 23, 2007)

CuttinDaisies said:


> Leo Porcello said:
> 
> 
> > Die from what other causes? Surplus ducks? If there is a surplus lets up the bag limit and extend the ND season!
> ...


Porkchop, I would not question this. It sounds like well researched data to me. He's probably one of them bird scientists!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

My thought on this and I want to know if it is true or not....

In the spring you don't see a drake with a bunch of hens. You see ducks paired up. So with that being said a drake only breeds one hen.

Now if this is correct then there must be a bunch of hens going unbreed each and every spring. So why not shoot hens.

So please someone tell me this is incorrect. Otherwise who cares if someone shoots a hen.

I always say stay with in the regulations and have a great time. So if a guy allowed to shoot two hens then who cares.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Chuck,

Judgeing by some of your pictures your not a young kid and you have pretty good experiance and probably a lot of field time. Are you honestly saying you have never witnessed the spring gang bangs of 5 or 6 drakes doing their best to get it on with one hen? I am not taking a dig at you but I see it all the time. I think drakes hit every hen they can and after a certain amount they get a curl. That is why some have more curls than others.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Leo....

I am trying to find out. I have witnessed a lot of things. I have witnessed only pairs in the spring. I have witnessed what you are talking about. But what you are talking about....is that just young drakes trying to get paired up.

I would like to get some biological facts. Because I have heard that geese pair up. But do all waterfowl? I just don't know.

Because like others have stated......in the past deer seasons people thought the same.....dead does drop fawn big bucks. But yet now research has shown that killing does helps the health of the herd.

What I am getting at is people blast others for shooting hens. If you have read some of my other posts about horn size and what not you can tell I am a guy that won't blast anyone if they are following with in the rules and are having a great time.

I myself try to only shoot drakes. In fact on my annual trip to Canada we make the guy who shoots the first hen in the day buy the first two rounds of drinks that night or breakfast. Now that is good natured fun. But if you read some of these posts people just go off and think that they are perfect.

This is what is wrong with the sport of hunting. People are focusing on Bands, how many birds they kill, gross scores on deer, etc. I would rather people talk about....it was a great hunt with my kids, dad, brother, friends. It was a great morning, I had tons of ducks drop in and I never fired a shot, etc.

And Leo I commend you and have much respect with the photos you have posted with you and your daughters. :beer: We need more people like you.

Happy hunting and be safe. Happy thanksgiving to all.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Chuck,

Thanks for the clarification and thank you for teaching me something new as I did not realize those were young drakes trying to pair up. I always just assumed they were horny guys trying to release a load or two on the first availiable hen.

I agree with going out and haveing a GREAT time and if it legal go for it. I as well try to only shoot drakes. But as sameyer posted in AK in the early part of the season you really don't know what your shooting sex wise unless it is a single and it quacks or does the drake zerrrtttttt zerrrtttt. And really how can we as waterfowlers come down on the guy that may only get out one or two times a season and has one duck come in and its a hen. Can we honestly expect him/her not to shoot? That one hen may be a story and a half for the guy and may give him/her a year worth of smiles. That is what waterfowling is about.

And yes I know I am guilty of being pro drake and yes I let the world know about it and yes I know I can be very aggressive about it (at least I can admit it) but really who am I to judge and to dictate if it isn't illegal? Especially in blhunter3's case. First mallards he sees of the season and some and maybe his only chance at one. Have at it and kill you a mallard! Its easy for some of us to take shooting a mallard for granted. It would be the same for me if a King Eider flew through my decoys!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

thanks guys for all the information. I know how it is to take a certain duck for granted. I shoot beatiful woodies all the time and this year I took out my bosses father and it was the first time in his life that he has shot a woodie. I dont target female ducks at all, but it was fun to see some mallards. we have them were I hunt but I can never get them in. Hopefully during thanksgiving break I can get some drakes in. we just got jsut a little bit of snow and the geese are packing the feilds and some of the mallards are with them. Its going to be fun making memories with family, like you guys are talking about. And I can testify to going out and only getting that one duck, but all that waiting makes that one duck worth while and the storys behind that one are usually pretty funny. Happy Thanksgiving, and be safe and good luck hunting.


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## fungalsnowgoose (Sep 11, 2004)

Your goose thing is right to a point especially in Snow geese. Snow geese mate for life but they are far from manogamous. According to the biologist I talked to there is a huge snow goose orgy that goes on every spring on the breeding grounds. I imagine ducks are probably the same way, although I could be wrong.


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## mallardrocker (Nov 29, 2006)

I love that goose statment, shows u ppl who complain abou thens WHATS UP! BOO YAH :beer:

Thought about it my self,

Kill one, the others gonna over populate, make sense????????????????


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

So if 15 are hens whats wrong with the 5 drakes? I guess I dont understand the problem, usually its hard enough for me to shoot 2 drakes out of a flock, but 5? wooooo


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## scissorbill (Sep 14, 2003)

Cuttindaisies,
You have not a clue. It has been proven ad naseum that you can in fact stockpile birds. Your theoretical 20 will die is just plain nonsense. We all know that a certain % of the pop. will sucumb to various causes each year but to assume that you are killing the exact birds that would otherwise die is showing complete ignorance and lack of common sense regarding this subject. Hen mallards as well as other ducks can live for 20 years. This rationalization to kill all the ducks you can just really chaps me. I could go on forever about this adaptive harvest crap and how flawed it is but I tend to get mad as I stated before it has been proven and proven that you CAN STOCKPILE BIRDS. One thing is for sure, if you dont shoot that hen it may in fact get eaten by a fox or whatever but then again it may NOT. If you shoot it , it is a guarantee that it will not reproduce. As was stated by porkchop DEADS HENS DO NOT LAY EGGS. tThis is the truth.


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## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

Drakes were the only thing I learned to shoot when I was a wee lad. I never was given a good explanation as to why I should only shoot drakes other than the fact they are prettier and when a flock takes off, looking for drakes will increase your accuracy. Not to mention looking for drakes slows your shooting down and makes for more ethical shooting.

I've heard that birds that look similar between the sexes (geese) are monogomous (sp) with both of the pair stay with the nest to raise young and that when they look different (ducks) they breed with multiple partners and the drakes leave after conception. I don't know for sure.


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## HuntingGeek (Oct 12, 2007)

The reason some species like the Mallard and Pintail are limited to only one hen is that the population of those birds is not doing as well as the other birds but there is enough of the population to allow you to take one "mistake" bird. Let's face it, not everyone can identify birds in flight 100% of the time. If you identify and shoot a hen mallard early in the day and then later identify what you think is a gadwall and find out it is a hen mallard after you pick it up, then you are in trouble.


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## CuttinDaisies (Nov 15, 2007)

scissorbill said:


> Cuttindaisies,
> You have not a clue. It has been proven ad naseum that you can in fact stockpile birds. Your theoretical 20 will die is just plain nonsense. We all know that a certain % of the pop. will sucumb to various causes each year but to assume that you are killing the exact birds that would otherwise die is showing complete ignorance and lack of common sense regarding this subject. Hen mallards as well as other ducks can live for 20 years. This rationalization to kill all the ducks you can just really chaps me. I could go on forever about this adaptive harvest crap and how flawed it is but I tend to get mad as I stated before it has been proven and proven that you CAN STOCKPILE BIRDS. One thing is for sure, if you dont shoot that hen it may in fact get eaten by a fox or whatever but then again it may NOT. If you shoot it , it is a guarantee that it will not reproduce. As was stated by porkchop DEADS HENS DO NOT LAY EGGS. tThis is the truth.


Then why don't we we close the season when bird numbers are low for a couple years... heck lets close it right now for 5 years and have a 1 billion bird flight when we open it back up. That would be awsome. 
And where did I say anything about killing all birds I can? I'm limited to 5 a day, as well as the rest of the state. B/c this is the number that has been deemed safe to harvest in order to sustain current populations, so as to not go over my theoretical 20. But I'd be all for closing the season for a couple years to stockpile a load of birds... you would think they would of thought of that already. Those idiots.


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## sflem849 (Mar 4, 2004)

Chuck Smith said:


> I have a question for those out there......does a Drake just pair up with one hen or do they mate with many?
> 
> Because I have heard from biologist that one rooster can breed 10 hens. So is it the same with ducks?


When I was fishing in the spring on the Wisconsin by Point I saw one hen mallard getting it on with 13 drakes. I am going with no


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

Chuck Smith said:


> I have a question for those out there......does a Drake just pair up with one hen or do they mate with many?
> 
> Because I have heard from biologist that one rooster can breed 10 hens. So is it the same with ducks?


I believe drakes are the ultimate horn dogs. Swinging, swapping mates, sharing their mates, group orgies...they're into it all. I've heard, but never substantiated that they will actually drowned a hen if they get them in the water and take turns.

Trust me, they are after all they can get.

Good hunting,
Dan


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