# 6.5mm Super LR



## xdeano

I've been looking around on another site and found this little Wildcat. I thought it was a pretty nice case design. I've known about the 6mm Super LR for a couple of years now, but the 6.5mm Super LR is just another option for those who like the 6.5's.

It looks to be a very efficient case. Take a look, pretty decent. It might have a step up on the 260 Rem.

http://www.6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php

xdeano


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## southdakbearfan

Seems really close to a 6.5 creedmoor. But then again, it's always nice to have something a little different.


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## Plainsman

It looks like a 260 AI. If you can use 243 brass or 260 brass I would guess a guy with a ton of 308 brass would be happy also. I think the case capacity is the same as a 260 AI. The only confusing thing is the long neck. I don't remember my 243's having a neck that long, but maybe. I suppose when they create that new shoulder angle they get a longer neck.


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## xdeano

Yep, when the brass is resized, the shoulder is bumped down allowing flow of material into the neck. The only thing that the AI doesn't have is that long neck. The longer neck will also throw the flame further into the barrel instead of flaming the throat. If you haven't felt a barrel that utilzes that long neck it is unreal. When you touch the barrel of a standard round, it'll be hot right at the throat and cooler towards the muzzle. But on a long neck, the heat makes it's way to about center of the barrel. Allowing for longer barrel life.

I've got a coworker that made a round with an extremely long neck in 6.5, calls it a 256 Knewt. He's got well over 3000 rounds down the barrel with no loss in accuracy and he's pushing the 139's with some velocity.

I like this round just because it's efficient, and I have a pile of brass that can be made into it. I've been planning on swapping out my 308 barrel for some time, I had been leaning towards the 260, but this might just sway me.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

I think if Cooper had offered it I would have chosen it over the 6.5 X 284. I talked with an acquaintance of mine, and he did make me feel some better about my choice. He says he has a couple thousand rounds through his 264 Win Mag and it is still very accurate. He had the Savage F class in 6.5 X 284, but sold it because he said it would not do anything his 264 Win Mag will do.

My hope is that when these bench guys talk about loss of accuracy at 800 rounds they are talking about groups opening up from .12 to .18 OK, I can dream can't I? :rollin:


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## xdeano

it has a lot to do with how you treat your barrel. If you're shooting Fclass matches every weekend, at 25 round on target from each distance without cleaning and under time restrictions, you're going to heat that barrel up and that's what will cause barrel wear the most. If you're out on a prairie poodle town, hammering away for 8 hrs straight, same thing. I think the way you shoot, you won't have any problems keeping a barrel for a couple grand. Especially if you're not burning a truck load of powder trying to achieve velocities that are nothing but light speed. I know guys that set back the barrel every 6 months because they are shooting to much, and will still get 1600+ rounds through a barrel.

But I definitely think this might be the way to go on the next barrel.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

I bought the single shot Phoenix just so I wouldn't burn rounds to fast. I will certainly shoot some prairie dogs, but I'll have two 223's, two 22-250, and a 308 up on bipods too. When the shooting is good I still never fire more than a couple of rounds, then let it cool or switch to another rifle. The only time I violate that don't shoot to many to fast is when I get behind the scope on that AR15. If I burn that up there are a couple of short 6.5 that will operate on that platform.  Hmmm maybe I better start crankin then through that one.


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## xdeano

Yeah, i believe that this round is developed for the AR platform also. I'm sure it would do well, feeding shouldn't be much of an issue, i wouldn't think anyhow. Either that or the creedmore, but finding brass for that is horrendous.

You should have bought a 260rem oke:

deano


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## Savage260

Deano, how does it compare to the 6.5L, you seemed pretty high on that cartridge last time we talked about it.


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## xdeano

yep, it's basically a 6.5x47Lapua only longer. From what I've gathered they just keep going with the chamber reamer to the spec of the 6.5SLR, using the 6.5x47L reamer. It's the same chamber dimensions, diameter speaking. I'm sure you'll still have to buy the chamber reamer specifically for the 6.5SLR instead of using the Lapua.

I'll do some digging around and give you a better answer. I don't know as much as i'd like to on this round, but i do think it's a good design.

xdeano


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## xdeano

I take it back, after doing some metric conversions, the specs at the shoulder is 0.4545" on the SLR and 0.4563" on the Lapua. And the neck length on the SLR is just a hair longer than the Lapua. .3325" SLR and .29921" Lapua.



















xdeano


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## Plainsman

Come on now xdeano cut that out. I'm wanting to think I just purchased the best thing since sliced bread and you have to go show me those specs. Oh, that's nasty.


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## xdeano

:rollin: and did I mention that it has less barrel wear.... oke: It will have less recoil than the 6.5x284 also, less powder=more efficiently. Start mixing the dough, because there is new bread coming out. You could always get a new barrel and cut it.  That's only about 500 bucks.

The 6.5x284 is a good proven round, ask any of the match guys and they'll say it too. I know a guy how consistently kills a lot of coyotes and deer at extended ranges, similar to what you shoot. I'll work on picking up a blank this summer to get it shipped off to Nathan, to cut. We'll see, the baby may be a trump card, money wise.

later,
Deano


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## KurtR

Thanks for clouding my head agin. Thought i had my mind made up about what cal of rifle i wanted to have built but you just threw a big wrench in that.


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## Savage260

You poor guys! A $400 prefit Savage barrel and you would be punching little tiny holes with a new 6.5SLR. Should I get one in a brux or rock creek? Ha ha!


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## xdeano

this round is NOT compatible with Savage Arms. oke:

xdeano


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## barebackjack

I dont know.

.260 Rem
6.5x47 L
6.5 CM
6.5 SLR

All still seem like kind of a "horse apeice".

I himmed and hawed for almost a year between the .260, the lapua, and the creedmore. All got subtle advantages/disadvantages over the others, all seem ballistically, to pretty much do the same damn thing......shoot circles around a .308!


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## xdeano

Yeah the 260, creedmore and 47L are all about a horse a piece. but this one might have a slight advantage, it is comparable to a 6.5-284 in terms of velocity but uses less powder to do it. It Is comparable to a 260AI, with better barrel life than either the 6.5-284 or the 260AI, It is comparable to the 264 winmag, only better barrel life and less powder doing it. It all comes down to how much powder you're going to flame that throat with and how far up the throat/barrel you can push that flame. The further up the less erosion on that throat giving you better life. But in the grand idea of it, it's basically the 6.5x47L with better case capacity.

It definitely has an edge over all of the other comparable cartridges in my book.

xdeano


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## Savage260

Wow, sounds like a match made in heaven. The benefits of a Savage action over others, Rem for example, combined with the benefits of this round will make one heck of a rifle.


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## Plainsman

> It is comparable to the 264 winmag, only better barrel life and less powder doing it.


What????? I can easily get 3000 fps with a 140 gr out of my 6.5 X 284, and my neighbor pushes his 264 Win Mag to 3140 fps. With Lapua brass I back off to 2960 fps. The brass shows some ejector marks about one out of four shots. The Winchester brass doesn't show any markings until past 3000 fps. I have had it as high as 3088, but it was showing some pressure signs.

2900 fps was my goal, but I will not turn down the extra few feet.  The longer neck sounds good though.

Say xdeano, do you remember telling me when I burn my barrel out I could get a faster twist and shoot some heavy bullets. What bullets were you talking about?


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## xdeano

by comparible, i'm saying it's like comparing a 308 with a 30-06, it's only a hundred or so fps. It's not like the 6.5x47L where it is noticably slower. I know the 264 winmag can push bullets with some velocity behind them 3100fps, but you're using 60g of powder for the most part. That's a lot of burn for a 6.5mm tube. they say that the water capacity of the SLR is 55.5gr. vs the 48gr in the 47L. So you can take a bit off the top, 20 to 30% or so to get you in the right powder capacity depending on powder used. I'm taking this right off their site, posted at the beginning of the post. Velocity is all relative if you don't have accuracy.

So, 38-45g of powder in the SLR, that's just a guess. Which is about right from loading 243 and 308. That's a bit less than 60g, so there's your barrel wear right there.

I'm not sure which bullet that I was talking about, maybe it was the JLK, I don't remember if the bullet was any heavier, I'd always suggest a 1-8" twist in the 6.5.
http://www.swampworks.com/jlk/
JLK 140g VLD with a BC .630.

Deano


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## rd51

Deano,

Please explain how a long neck throws the flame further into the barrel and doesn't flame the throat. The heat should be most intense closest to the source. I've had two competent gunsmiths and a number shooters read this and we are all puzzled as to how the flame can some how get to the middle of the barrel and avoid the throat.

Ron


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## Plainsman

rd51, I have been thinking a lot about that also. I thought perhaps it's like the old muzzle-loading shotguns. People would either jug choke if they could afford it, or buy a longer barrel to improve pattern. I wonder if the idea is a long throat keeps the flame in a more tight pattern like shot out of a long barrel shotgun. There is only one problem. We have an obstruction (bullet) in the bore. With the bullet blocking the escaping gasses I would think as you do that the longer duration of fire at the back of the bore would cause higher temperatures. 
I know different powders will cause more or less wear of a chamber throat because of where their peak pressures occur. All else being equal that is. The literature I can find on R17 tells me I can increase barrel life of my 6.5 X 284 using it in place of 4350 or 4831 which are the old standby powders for that cartridge.
Something else I have wondered about on throat wear is trim length. Often it's recommended to trim .010 under maximum case length. I wonder if that simply leaves more steel exposed for erosion? Maybe I am just nit picking.


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## rd51

I'm just curious to hear an explanation on the long neck. I'm not here to rag on somebody; I just don't understand the logic. Like you say Plainsman; there is an obstruction with the bullet and that would build up the gases. I would guess with a long neck, you would have more bullet in the neck and would create more resistance. I don't know, just looking for logic, whatever that maybe.

Plainsman how do like those Bonanza bench rest dies? I was at the Grand Forks gun show on Saturday and found a good deal on some Redding dies. I couldn't tell them from new and they were $20.


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## xdeano

That's a damn good question man. But I'll try to explain it the best way I can. I don't have any rounds that have an unusually long neck but i've shot a few and you can you can definitely tell where the heat is at just by touching the barrel at different parts of the tube.

So, I'll give you a disclaimer, because as far as I know there is no real "hard science" to the whole throat erosion stuff. But here goes. Everyone has or has seen a spray bottle that has the twist tip, one that starts out at off, then if you unscrew it a bit, it becomes a pretty narrowed down stream, then you unscrew it a bit more and it becomes a fine mist. I know that doesn't make sense but if you push that powder down a confined column tube, it has less time to sit at the throat and melt. Now you take the mist version or (short neck), it basically comes out at less of a column and more of a random volly of heat. It's a wider V so the powder bounces around.

Another way to look at it would be like a shotgun tube using different chokes.

And another way to look at it would be the fact that unburnt powder act like a sand blaster. Say if you have the sandblaster set at 50 psi, if you put it on the wide stream and stick it in a tube, it'll blast the very first part of the tube but will slow down by the time it gets halfway down the tube, and does less erosion. Now you take the fine nozzle on and blast the same tube at 50psi, it will basically miss the first part of the pipe and won't have as much velocity as it gets further out causing less erosion because it's only going say 35psi.

I hope that makes any more sense to everyone else than in my twisted mind. I appologise in advanced for my random explination. I'll have to go back up and read it, maybe it'll make more sense.

xdeano


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## xdeano

Sorry, another side note, throat erosion has other causes that i'm aware off besides the length of the neck of the brass. Pressure, bearing surface, twist rate, bullet weight, amount of powder... Now you can ask more questions...  
I agree though that was a good question.
xdeano


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## Plainsman

> Plainsman how do like those Bonanza bench rest dies? I was at the Grand Forks gun show on Saturday and found a good deal on some Redding dies. I couldn't tell them from new and they were $20.


They are very good. I had .004 bullet run out with my other dies, and .002 bullet run out with these dies, so I have cut that in half.



> JLK 140g VLD with a BC .630.


I will have to admit I am getting behind on these bullet makers. I am shooting the Berger VLD with a ballistic coefficient of .612 and they group really good. Ballistic coefficient of .630 wow. It may make me wish I had not spent a couple of hundred bucks on Bergers.  I have a one in nine twist and the box on Berger VLD says eight inch or less twist. However, I am getting groups under .2 inch all the time so maybe I should just be satisfied ----- naw that's no fun.


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## barebackjack

Plainsman said:


> Plainsman how do like those Bonanza bench rest dies? I was at the Grand Forks gun show on Saturday and found a good deal on some Redding dies. I couldn't tell them from new and they were $20.
> 
> 
> 
> They are very good. I had .004 bullet run out with my other dies, and .002 bullet run out with these dies, so I have cut that in half.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JLK 140g VLD with a BC .630.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will have to admit I am getting behind on these bullet makers. I am shooting the Berger VLD with a ballistic coefficient of .612 and they group really good. Ballistic coefficient of .630 wow. It may make me wish I had not spent a couple of hundred bucks on Bergers.  I have a one in nine twist and the box on Berger VLD says eight inch or less twist. However, I am getting groups under .2 inch all the time so maybe I should just be satisfied ----- naw that's no fun.
Click to expand...

Ive got a 1:9 in my .260 too but have been shying away from anything over 130 (trying the 123 scenars). Id love to try the 140 JLKs but I dont know that id be able to push 140s fast enough in that slow twist to stabilize well.

How fast are you pushing those bergers?


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## Plainsman

I have groups under .3 at 3050 fps, but the ejector is imprinting in the case head. I can get 3000 fps with no pressure signs in the Winchester brass (I think it's harder) and groups under .2 inches. I can get 2960 fps out of the Lapua brass with no pressure signs. Those group around .12 to .18 inches for three shot groups, and stay under .2 for five shot groups. That is using R17. I can only get to 2830 fps with other powders.
Oh, my accuracy is .008 off the lands. Further and my groups open up, and closer gives me pressure.


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## barebackjack

Hmmm. I may have to go ahead and give the 140s a whirl with some R17. Lots of guys that were using R15 are switching to the 17, must be a good reason.

2850 is really pushing it with 140s in the .260 with H4350. And I dont think that will cut it with a slow twist.


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## rd51

Deano,

I understand your theories on spray bottles, air nozzles and shotgun choke tubes, but they're all free air theories with no restrictions. It would be the same if you cut off the rifle barrel before the rifling and watch the fire fly. No more questions


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## xdeano

like i'd said, I don't have hard science to prove it, but I also don't have hard evidence to prove other wise. It's just common sense. But, if you'd like to prove me wrong, go for it. I'm open to suggestions. I'll ask a coworker who has made his own round and get back to you.

here is his 6.5 wildcat made from a 300wsm case.









and his 7mm wildcat made from a 338Lapua brass.









I'll get you a sufficient answer from a person that knows a bit more about the mechanics of a case than I do. I'll call tomorrow.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

xdeano, do you know if anyone has ever put temperature sensors on a straight barrel (no taper) and checked that theory out? It is very interesting and worth pursuing if it's right. It sure has my attention anyway. Like that 6.5 on the 300 WSM case. That's what I was waiting for and gave up on Winchester. The 270 and 7mm are close. I thought sure they would come with a 6.5, but no they had to start with the Super Short Mags next.


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## rd51

I talked with a ballistician at Sierra this morning about the long vs short neck theory. He said with the long neck, the heat stays in the cartridge a little longer than the short neck cartridge, so there's less heat in the throat, but it's still in the throat and doesn't some how avoid the throat. He said there are so many variables and the difference is so minute, that a person wouldn't notice any difference. He said regardless of neck length the heat transfer still has to start as it's leaving the cartridge and lessen as it travels the length of the barrel.


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## alleyyooper

I've been eyeing the 264RLB. 
Just have to save enough money to buy a used Encore then a barrel from SSK industrys. It is based on the 6.8SPC. The encore and barrel seems to be the cheapest way for me to go at this stage. Depending on the frame cost I think I can get away with about $800.00. Was going to do it with a Remington 700 action but i can't afford the full treatment that way as I have not been able to find one that chambers the 6.8 SPC.

You can order any kind of 264 RLB die you want from Hornady - they will supply any combination of Full Length Sizing Die, Full Length Bushing Die, Neck Size Bushing Die, Body Die, or Seating Die.

With 6.8 SPC brass you have the option of using either large or small rifle primers. SSA makes cases for both, Hornady cases take small rifle primers, Remington cases take large rifle primers. All except SSA Large Primer cases are available from Midway and are in stock.

 Al


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## xdeano

I talked with the guy who made those wildcats earlier in the thread today, and he said that he had an accuracy node at 3100fps but he was able to push the 140 vld's well past 3200fps but he said that groups opened up to 1". With his accuracy node he had several .1" groups. He said that he just rebarreled, he said that he did so after 3500 rounds because his groups were right at .5" at 100yds. He's a very picky guy, he use to shoot a lot of benchrest.

He said that the reason why he went with a 30 degree shoulder was because most efficient funnels were between 28 and 30 degrees, allowing for excellent flow. I asked him why he chose to do such a long neck, what he told me was exactly what I'd mentioned in my earlier post. He did say that having less throat errosion has to do with both the long neck and shoulder angle. He also said that it creates a plug or powder column that is much more uniform. So it's going to burn the powder more uniformly also.

I don't remember saying that it doesn't touch the throat, it just touches it with a straight flow versus scattered flow of burned and unburned powder. It all comes back to uniform powder flow. So my demo is basically spot on.

xdeano


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## xdeano

Al, that 6.8 looks like a fun prospect also.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

> it just touches it with a straight flow versus scattered flow of burned and unburned powder. It all comes back to uniform powder flow


I have to think about that. I just can't wrap my mind around it making a difference when there is an obstruction in the way. To me it would be like laying a slug on top of an ounce of eight shot and expecting to experience a full choke pattern.


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## xdeano

I don't know if i'd go that far. If the powder spent more time in the case burning then funneling out in a more uniform column (straighter) you'll end up with more burned powder and less unburned powder, unlike a typical case would still have your burned powder but with more unburned powder bouncing off the 90" shoulder that is the throat/land junction. That is where the erosion is.

That squared off bump (on a newly reamed barrel) causes an obstruction, like a curb on a street, if you get that powder burned and pointed in a uniformed column it's going to have less of an effect on that curb. More unburned powder and the shorter the neck, the more of a spray effect you're going to get with more of the kernels of unburned powder starting to burn as they leave the case and hit the throat/land junction and continue down the barrel. Sand blasting the curb.

Another reason for having a long neck would be to push the bullet out further, getting it into a more optimum location than a conventional round. If you take a look at the pictures supplied, the bullet looks like it is extending out long, which it is, but if you can envision where the base of the bullet is, it's perfect, less of a restriction. The base of the bullet will sit right at the shoulder/neck junction, vs sticking way down in the case, which as we all know takes up precious powder room. 

For example, here is a 308 that i load for. just notice how far into the powder that the bullet is sitting. if i didn't have that sitting on top of the powder, i'd be able to get a bit more in there. that still doesn't say that it'll shoot worth a crap, if i didn't have a power node at my high end. which I know i do, because I have pushed it. I was having some adverse affects, so i backed it down. 








here is the other one again.









xdeano
xdeano


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## Plainsman

> Another reason for having a long neck would be to push the bullet out further, getting it into a more optimum location


I sure agree with that. Right now I am experimenting with the 185 VLD in my 300 Win Mag again. I am having the opposite problem you explain though. As you know the old 300 Mag has a short neck. Combine that with a long throat and I am just getting enough bullet in the neck to hold it. I wish they made a 200 grain. My bearing surface is only into the neck enough to hold it, and not very firmly. I'm afraid I could press it back and fourth with my fingers and pull it. If I am going to get within .008 inch of the lands I will have to get a heavier bullet. No way will I be able to use the magazine.



> More unburned powder and the shorter the neck, the more of a spray effect you're going to get with more of the kernels of unburned powder starting to burn as they leave the case and hit the throat/land junction and continue down the barrel.


See that's the part I don't get. With a bullet preceeding that blast, and holding it back there is going to be no uniform gas ejectin from that neck. I think there is nothing but a fireball behind that bullet no matter the neck. I understand the short fat case giving uniform ignition, and if there is any less temperature involved it's because a uniforn ignition and a slow burning powder extend the burn time. I don't know if that would reduce throat erosion either because it sounds like half a dozen of one and six of the other. I mean: high temperature short duration, lower temperture longer duration. It's like holding a blowtorch turned on high for 30 seconds, or turning it down slightly and holding it for 31 seconds. 

I don't know it just appears to defy physics. Like I said place something on top of your pellets in a 12 guage shell, then shoot it out of a full choke and see if you still get a tight pattern. That guy may have been a bench rest shooter, but I think he is shoveling bull dung. No offense to you xdeano, you know I highly respect you. :wink:


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## Plainsman

barebackjack said:


> Hmmm. I may have to go ahead and give the 140s a whirl with some R17. Lots of guys that were using R15 are switching to the 17, must be a good reason.
> 
> 2850 is really pushing it with 140s in the .260 with H4350. And I don't think that will cut it with a slow twist.


You know bbj I don't think there is a big difference between the 260 and the 6.5 X 284. I have more case capacity, but when both are loaded to the same chamber pressure there isn't that great a velocity difference. I guess that's where the efficiency xdeano likes comes into play. 
I see this year Cooper come out with ten magnums including the 264. I was feeling sort of sorry I didn't wait, but I notice I'm not that far behind that round either. I am going to try some R17 with some 120 Ballistic tips I have. I think I can get 3200 fps. As soon as I use them up I think I will stick strictly to the 140 gr. Oh, I may have to buy one box of 95 V-Max just to see how they perform on prairie dogs.  
I think your doing very good if your getting 2850 fps with the 260. That's why I say the difference isn't that great. Heck I had pressure at 2830 fps I think (darn memory). That was with R22 though and powders are different. A friend was loading the 6.5 X 284 at 2950 fps with 4350, but he had a Savage F class with a 30 inch barrel. 
Anyway, I would try R17 if I was you. I am betting you will get at least another 100 fps.


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## xdeano

I don't know how much BS he's sitting in, but I do trust him, he works for the outfit and he's just as young as you are. He's been tinkering with different wildcats for the last 30-40 years. I also trust that he's getting 3500 rounds down the tube without setting it back. I also trust the physics behind it because I've felt the barrels after 5 rounds in my 308 vs his wildcats. There is a noticeable temperature contrast between the two barrels. In his the temperature is half way up the barrel and in mine it's right at the throat/land junction area. Even if i can't prove it, i've seen it. Maybe it's just magic. Hell if i know. But no one can prove otherwise so i think it's just a wash and people can believe what they want to. But i know if i can get 3500+ rounds at 3100fps, i'll be laughing. So this kind of authenticates the guys estimate of barrel life in the 6.5 Super LR, because the SLR is a tad slower, and has less powder capacity.

Another coworker of mine is shooting the 6.5x284 at 3025fps with 140 VLD's and he just pulled his barrel off at 1000 rounds to have it set back. He ended up taking a look at the bore with his scope and decided he'd only get another 4-500 rounds after setting back, so he decided to just rebarrel. Now i'll tell you that these guys are not going crazy on rapid fire, they shoot only a round or two at a time, then move on. So there is not heat residue for the next firing. So that comes back to the 3500 rounds compared to 1000-1500 rounds before a rebarrel job. I know i'm not made of money, but i'd sure like to find that money tree, i'd dig it up and put it in my back yard.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

There is something I am curious about: Why would the faster 264 Win Mag have longer barrel life than the 6.5 X 284? I have heard people complain that the 264 Win Mag is only good for 2000 rounds.



> I also trust the physics behind it because I've felt the barrels after 5 rounds in my 308 vs his wildcats. There is a noticeable temperature contrast between the two barrels.


I notice one thing that adds a lot of heat to the barrel and that is bearing surface. That could be to friction in the barrel, or the dwell time in the barrel. Also, heavier lands create more heat, some powders create more heat, slim barrels heat faster, which leads me to the idea of temperature sensors on a barrel with the same diameter from throat to crown. One of the reasons I would like to do that is because my 300 WSM is hotter in mid barrel than back by the breach. I think that's simply because the barrel on that rifle is so much thinner midway than back by the chamber.

If you get a chance ask that guy some of these questions. I would like a cartridge like that if I could get a gunsmith to install it and have the accuracy I do now. After this barrel burns out. Like you I don't have that money tree.


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## xdeano

I haven't the slightest idea why the 264 winmag would have a slightly better barrel life than the 6.5-284. They burn roughly the same amount of powder. It could be case taper, shoulder angle, etc.

You're right about bearing surface creating heat. Longer bearing surface more surface friction.

I'd like to do a temp test, it would be kind of neat to determine just where the heat is at in the same barrels using the same barrels and same bullets, same velocity just to see what the difference would be in neck length.

The next time i talk to him, i'll ask him some of the questions.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

> I'd like to do a temp test, it would be kind of neat to determine just where the heat is at in the same barrels using the same barrels and same bullets, same velocity just to see what the difference would be in neck length.


Ya, were perhaps only two of a few who care about that stuff, but my curiosity just gets me when I don't know something. I sure would like to see the results of something like that.

http://www.6mmbr.com/reloder17.html

This guy thinks he is going to have extended barrel life simply by switching from 4350 to R17. I hope he is right, because it kicks out the 140 VLD about 125 fps faster with less pressure in my rifle.


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## xdeano

The science background kind of pulls a person towards wanting the answers to thing that they don't know. Expecially things with experiments involved.  and things that go boom!

You may get a little bit less temperature sensitive with the 4350. That buddy that has the 6.5x284 is shooting VV560, if i remember right.

xdeano


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## barebackjack

Plainsman said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm. I may have to go ahead and give the 140s a whirl with some R17. Lots of guys that were using R15 are switching to the 17, must be a good reason.
> 
> 2850 is really pushing it with 140s in the .260 with H4350. And I don't think that will cut it with a slow twist.
> 
> 
> 
> You know bbj I don't think there is a big difference between the 260 and the 6.5 X 284. I have more case capacity, but when both are loaded to the same chamber pressure there isn't that great a velocity difference. I guess that's where the efficiency xdeano likes comes into play.
> I see this year Cooper come out with ten magnums including the 264. I was feeling sort of sorry I didn't wait, but I notice I'm not that far behind that round either. I am going to try some R17 with some 120 Ballistic tips I have. I think I can get 3200 fps. As soon as I use them up I think I will stick strictly to the 140 gr. Oh, I may have to buy one box of 95 V-Max just to see how they perform on prairie dogs.
> I think your doing very good if your getting 2850 fps with the 260. That's why I say the difference isn't that great. Heck I had pressure at 2830 fps I think (darn memory). That was with R22 though and powders are different. A friend was loading the 6.5 X 284 at 2950 fps with 4350, but he had a Savage F class with a 30 inch barrel.
> Anyway, I would try R17 if I was you. I am betting you will get at least another 100 fps.
Click to expand...

RL17 is on the list of "stuff" to try. I gotta stop researching stuff or ill shoot my throat out just trying different load combos!

The only thing that concerns me with the RL17 is temperature sensitivity. I have no experience with Alliant powders but have been reading it doesnt have near the stability the Hodgdon "H" series powders have. Also heard the coating on RL17 is different than on the RL15.

Whats the barrel life of the 6.5x284 at 3000+ fps???


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## xdeano

i'd say around 1500-1800 rounds for good accuracy, after that it'll start to fall off.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

R17 doesn't have the traditional coating that other powders have. It has the burn control chemical mixed all through the powder grain. 
I notice that from -10 degrees to +35 degrees I have a ( to late to go look and I don't know if I can remember) I think it jumped from 2965 to 3000 fps. I do know that I was loaded with 50.2 grains and dropped to 50 grains and on the warm day I got 2965 fps. So with .2 grains less I got the same velocity.

I get those changes with Varget also, so I don't know if that extreme powder sales pitch is as good as they say. All I know is I'm not shooting 50.2 grains this summer when then temp hits 90.  My face isn't that great, but it's all I have.


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## xdeano

well I started looking into reamers, PRG has them in stock. pretty nice to know. Only $147.00.

xdeano


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## AdamFisk

Question of the day...

With the chamber reamer that has been posted in this thread, Whitley has an OAL of 2.838" for the 140 Bergers as hitting the lands. With AI mags a guy can run a max 2.885 and still be able to feed. Looking at some dummy rounds for both 140 hybrids and 130 hunting VLDs, it looks like approx 2.875 would be an ideal length to be as far as case capacity/seating depth goes. The problem is, with the reamer as is, with the 140s, you'd be jamming them .037" if seated to an OAL of 2.875. That obviously won't fly. If the throat was extended out to allow that extra .037 case capacity, would a guy gain much in performance with that extra room? Is there any way to figure out how much more powder a guy could dump in there??


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## xdeano

just cut per reamer and load as whitley has listed and give it a try first before spending the extra money on a throat reamer. Sure it'll give you a bit extra lenth and free up a little room in the case to put powder. But whos going to say that your rifle will like the longer cut.

Do me a favor and get your caliper out and roll out .037". Then put that into perspective of how much extra powder that you'll be able to put into that case. It isn't going to be much. .037" is about the width of a letter in this sentence. It's not much. Now if you're running an .010" off the lands then i'll be just a hair less room. But even still it's not going to be enought to worry about that reamer and time. That's just me. I can live with a little less case cap. Try it first, if it doesn't work, get it cut deaper.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

Well after reading about 15 articles in gun magazines I had to have another 6.5. So I called Jim at Northland and ordered a match 6.5 Creedmore. I have the 6.5X284 for performance now I want a light rifle with a moderate velocity. I am going to put the barrel on my Savage model 16 which is 22-250 right now. Since I get much higher energy with a 75 gr bullet in my AR than a factory 22-250 at 600 yards I really don't need the light barrel 22-250. I'll burn up my thousands of rounds of 22-250 in the Remington XR100 Rangemaster. 
Now for dies, brass, and a new stock.


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## xdeano

the 6.5 creedmoor is a proven performer. If I were to do a 6.5 variant, i'd go with it and not have a problem at all. It's a solid case design. It is just a hair shorter then the 6.5slr though, so a little less case capacity but not enough to worry about.

Sounds like there will be a 6.5SLR reamer in the same town as you though.  Just food for thought. Reamer rent probably would be cheap.

xdeano


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## AdamFisk

xdeano said:


> Sounds like there will be a 6.5SLR reamer in the same town as you though.  Just food for thought. Reamer rent probably would be cheap.
> 
> xdeano


Yah, if I ever get the damn thing... :-?

PTG's customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I was warned by two different people going into it and should have went with JGS I think. I just hope that the reamer is similar to the specs on Whitley's site. A guy I've been talking to said his was not. Trying to get reamer specs or a solid ETA on this thing proves impossible.

I do hope I like this round. I'm geared up to have two rifles chambered into it, a heavier rig and a lighter sporter rig. If everything pans out it would be nice to be able to shoot the same load and pretty close to the same ballistics in two rifles.


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## xdeano

Patients is a virtue. :eyeroll:

The PTG reamers and the JGS reamers are identical. Remember they are being cut using the same prints. They are within spec i can assure you. If they weren't there would be a lot of people complaining.

You'll get it when it's done that's all there is to it. You need to settle down a little.

xdeano



AdamFisk said:


> xdeano said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like there will be a 6.5SLR reamer in the same town as you though.  Just food for thought. Reamer rent probably would be cheap.
> 
> xdeano
> 
> 
> 
> Yah, if I ever get the damn thing... :-?
> 
> PTG's customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I was warned by two different people going into it and should have went with JGS I think. I just hope that the reamer is similar to the specs on Whitley's site. A guy I've been talking to said his was not. Trying to get reamer specs or a solid ETA on this thing proves impossible.
> 
> I do hope I like this round. I'm geared up to have two rifles chambered into it, a heavier rig and a lighter sporter rig. If everything pans out it would be nice to be able to shoot the same load and pretty close to the same ballistics in two rifles.
Click to expand...


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## Plainsman

When your going custom Adam and order what you want it's going to take time. My barrel took 14 weeks if I remember right. The reamer took six weeks. The throat reamer took another while. In the end it will be worth it. I gave myself more than a year to be prepared for this up coming deer season. 
To cut time on my next one I ordered the barrel pre chambered and threaded for a Savage model 16.


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## xdeano

Adam pulled a couple of my strings and should have his barrel already. It typically takes me a week to get the blank I'm looking for, Bartlein barrels rock, but their hard to get.

Wish I could help on reamers, but they typically take 6-8 weeks to get.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

I was talking with a friend today and realized my barrel took six months to get. Oh well, it's done now and shooting great. Eight to ten weeks will be a breeze to wait for. :wink:

As far as a reamer I sort of stand by the old cliche: "do you want it done fast or do you want it done right?" I may rush my barber, but that grows out. I never rush my gunsmith. I don't rush a cook that may spit in my food either.


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## AdamFisk

Dude, I don't mind waiting. But do appreciate communication. Sorry to say Dean, but I've heard orders can get lost pretty easily around there, and a couple instances where the reamers ordered were different then expected.. All I did was follow up with them after 7 weeks to confirm my order and to seek a little more info. I don't need to settle down as I'm not worked up. :lol: I know they're a busy operation and like you say, I will get it when I get it. I did confirm they had my order anyways.



xdeano said:


> Patients is a virtue. :eyeroll:
> 
> The PTG reamers and the JGS reamers are identical. Remember they are being cut using the same prints. They are within spec i can assure you. If they weren't there would be a lot of people complaining.
> 
> You'll get it when it's done that's all there is to it. You need to settle down a little.
> 
> xdeano
> 
> 
> 
> AdamFisk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xdeano said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like there will be a 6.5SLR reamer in the same town as you though.  Just food for thought. Reamer rent probably would be cheap.
> 
> xdeano
> 
> 
> 
> Yah, if I ever get the damn thing... :-?
> 
> PTG's customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I was warned by two different people going into it and should have went with JGS I think. I just hope that the reamer is similar to the specs on Whitley's site. A guy I've been talking to said his was not. Trying to get reamer specs or a solid ETA on this thing proves impossible.
> 
> I do hope I like this round. I'm geared up to have two rifles chambered into it, a heavier rig and a lighter sporter rig. If everything pans out it would be nice to be able to shoot the same load and pretty close to the same ballistics in two rifles.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## xdeano

Nothing wrong with a double check. Just stating that you need to be.patient. 
Deano


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## AdamFisk

Plainsman said:


> When your going custom Adam and order what you want it's going to take time. My barrel took 14 weeks if I remember right. The reamer took six weeks. The throat reamer took another while. In the end it will be worth it. I gave myself more than a year to be prepared for this up coming deer season.
> To cut time on my next one I ordered the barrel pre chambered and threaded for a Savage model 16.


For my hunting rifle I am looking at a 7 month wait for my barrel, 4 for the stock, still waiting on the trigger, and I think the action took 3 months to get. It don't bother me none. I don't intend to have that rifle this season. Actually, I don't intend to have a ND rifle tag this year, unless I draw a doe. And for that I will use a different rifle anyways.

The hunting rifle was put in motion way before I had intentions of doing a heavier rig. Something unexpected came up and I decided to cut my losses and move on. With Dean's help I have a barrel en route with one phone call. Can't beat that.

It is a good idea to have stuff on order or on hand for a rainy day. A guy certainly won't have any problems selling it if he decided to go a different route. I hunted for a sporter 6.5 Bartlein for awhile before ordering. I was always a hair too late.


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## Plainsman

I ordered a pre chambered set up for my Savage so I didn't have to wait so long this time. I want it shooting before the coyotes are prime. I ordered 200 Hornady brass and dies this afternoon.


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## AdamFisk

Speak of the devil...Thank you xdeano!!


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## barebackjack

We should start a pool on how long till you have your first "issue" with this one. Im guessing it'll be a brass forming "issue" of some sort!


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## xdeano

no problem adam.

BBJ,

I've got dibs on mental. oke:

xdeano


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