# Can you recommend a revolver?



## Grokking

I have started doing some prospecting and it is working out. I am in bear territory and since I stay put for days I have set up a ring of fishing line that had hundreds of small bells on it to surround me. This alerts me to any larger animals approaching. It has been recommended that I have bear bangers and pepper spray handy. A few days ago I was busy doing what I do and I heard the bells jingling, it was a fairly large black bear. I reached for the bear bangers and shot several off.... Know one told me that they could act like a duck call and attract the bear even closer, perhaps the bear hadn't read that this was suppose to frighten him off. Have you ever seen how attracted deer and cattle are to salt blocks? Well the bear spray had about the same effect on the bear. I swear it looked like he thought I had just smeared myself with A-1 steak sauce. He kept coming. The old fellow who has been showing me the rope pulled out an air horn that makes a 150 decibel blast. The bear turned and ran. it was so loud that my ears are still ringing and it actually hurt. He told me that he bought it years ago and they have been banned. So I think I would like to have a revolver with me for the next encounter I have, just in case. However I know nothing about revolvers, like what caliber would you use to stop a bear, and what about single or double action. I also sometimes enter into grizzly territory as well mountain lions have been seen in the area.So can anyone make a recommendation.


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## Hardsell

I really like Smith & Wesson's Model 629 with the 5" inch barrel in .44. It has great balance, not overly large, and is extremely reliable. It also shoots a large, readily available caliber bullet that can be in a variety of loads.


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## NDTerminator

Probably get more responses in the Handgun Forum...

If it's gotta be a handgun then I second a 629, for an all around bellygun I like their 4" Mountain Gun the best (my old eyes don't see iron sights very well anymore, so I traded my Mt Gun for a 6" old style 629 and put on a scope).

I for one don't trust my life to a bellygun, though. When I"m poking around in the bush I carry either a shotbarrelled Remington 870 with buck or my Guide Gun in 45-70...


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## Bobm

ALberta? I thought handguns were not legal in Canada


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## Grokking

Other than law enforcement and armored car drivers there are only two exceptions to carrying a hand gun, prospectors and trappers. The hand gun has to be in the open, not concealed, and it took almost a year to get my permit.


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## Bore.224

Get 2 gun's the forementioned 629 S&W and a good quick handling 12ga shotgun and stoke it with 00 or 000 buckshot. Give yourself a year or two to become proficiant with the hand gun.

Also look into the Ruger Superblackhawk its a single action but one heck of a gun.


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## Plainsman

I second the 4 inch Smith and Wesson 629. Load it with some maxed out hard cast. They are available without loading yourself. Darn, can't remember the name of the place right now. Anyway, you can get 300 gr cast with flat points and they will penetrate deep into tissue which is what you need for bears. If they hit bone, no big deal they will turn it into shrapnel (the bone that is). 
I find that I often leave my longer barrel behind, but the 4 inch is always with me. Better to have a 4 inch in your hand than the longer barrel back in camp. 
I would rather have a 12 gauge with slugs, but you more than likely will not have it at hand when you need it. Put the handgun in it's holster and don't even go to the bathroom without it. Live with it like it was part of you and it will be there if you ever need it.


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## NDTerminator

Gotta add that Ruger is now making the Redhawk in 44 Mag or 45LC with a 4" barrel and Hogue grips. Kind of their answer to the S&W Mountain Gun.

I think a 4" Redhawk with Hogue grips is about as close to a perfect field bellygun as a guy could want, especially in 45LC. In the Redhawk the 45LC can be loaded to it's full potential, which eclipses the 44 Mag by quite a margin.

I"m so intrigued that I asked the local dealer to get one in 44 Mag for me to look over. Sight unseen, I'm about 80% certain that I'll buy it. The only reason I'll go with the 44 over the 45 is that I'm set up to load it and have a lot of 44 bullets on hand.

Much as I love the graceful lines & smooth action of the S&W 629, I would be the first to state the Redhawk is far stronger & a much simpler design. That means much less chance Mr. Murphy shows up to roil the waters about the time you need your bellygun to work in a big way!...


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## beaverskins

id recomend a smith and wesson 460 xvr, you can shoot 45 colt out of it for practice and when it comes down to carrying into bear country load it with 454 casull or 460 and stop any bear in its tracks...... with the 8 and 3/8" barrel with muzzel break it shouldnt be to punishing,......ive shot one with the 10 and 1/2" barrel and it was decent enough to shoot one handed if ya practiced haha :sniper:


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## buckseye

I really like my Ruger Blackhawk 45 Long Colt, very accurate at 75 yds. it's made me look good a few times... :lol:


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## north14

Buckseye, you should have had that with you when that moose nearly ran over your azz on that trail!!!! : :beer:


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## buckseye

It would have been moose steaks for everyone!!! Probably legal to kill a moose that is charging you too... so you know.... :beer:


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## broncobilly

My boondocks gun is Glock 20 10mm. I know it's not a wheel gun but it carries 16 rounds of .41 mag-like ammo. Couldn't be happier with it.


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## buckseye

I swear to God North when you stepped on that downed tree and the bushes about a foot in front of my face shook and the moose charged between us my eyes popped out so far it caused magnified vision. I **** you not it looked like it was about 3 feet away and coming fast... I dove for a badger digging but my head didn't even fit so I had to hide behind a tree that was only about 2 damn inches around it looked like.. probably because at that time my eyes were popped out so far they looked around the tree without me even moving. When I made eye contact with the charging moose literally my eyes touched its eyes they were popped so far out of my skull. It was awesome North!!! Thanks for the super human speed and agility I didn't know I had too!! Lets do it again!! :beer:


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## NDTerminator

The 460-500 are impressive rounds to be sure but have a couple drawbacks. First the X Frame Smiths are so huge & bulky that you might as well carry a carbine or short barrelled shotgun. Second, both those rounds kick so bad as to be extremely difficult to master and nearly impossible to deploy effectively rapid fire, as in needing multiple accurate rounds on target when a bear is trying to eat you. With handguns, there's definitely a point of diminishing returns...

If I want more thump than a bellygun, I go with my stainless 45-70 Guide Gun & heavy 350 grain handloads. Weighs only a shade more than a 8-3/8" X Frame, more accurate, faster to deploy,and more powerful...


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## driggy

I like my colt Anaconda. It is the most accurate 44 I've shot. I have tried both the Smith and Rugers, but there is just something about the Colt. Another thought is the Ruger 44 Carbine. Same size as a 10/22 but shoots 44 ammo. The MArlins are popular in AK. I had a 500 Smith. Too much shock between the wrist and elbow for me. Very accurae though.


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## beaverskins

the 500 and 460 are big guns and some what bulky and they have some draw backs to them as mentioned prior, but then again were not talking conceled carry here.

now ive never shot a 500, but i have shot the 460 and i can tell you from experiance that with the performance center model 10.5" barrel i could shoot it one handed , not very accuratly cause of the weight, but it could be done better with practice. the sholder holster was very comfortable to carry it in when walking while out hunting. not to mention it was very accurate and powerfull, it shot right through a 8x8 inch wood fence post that we had target on.

i cant imagin that the 8 and 3/8" barrel with conmpensator is to much more punishing than the 10.5" version and the 8 and 3/8'' version might not be to bad on a hip holster........ now this is just my opinion on the subject and i believe that a 44 mag is a fine grizzly gun as well(i wouldnt recomend anything under a 44 for that matter), but if it were me i would be packing a 460 xvr. :beer:


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## dakotashooter2

> My boondocks gun is Glock 20 10mm. I know it's not a wheel gun but it carries 16 rounds of .41 mag-like ammo


While in most cased this would be a very servicable gun, if the occasion arose that a bear had you on your back and your only option was to press the gun into the beast and fire, it is said the slide on a semi auto could easily be pushed out of battery causing a failure to fire. One of the reasons that revovers are generally recomended. The mountain gun is a good option. The DA will also allow one handed fire without having to cock the hammer, if the need arises.


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## mike landrich

If its purely for self defense, I don't think you can do better than a Super Redhawk Alaskan in 480 Ruger. A 400 Gr bullet will do more damage at close range than a 240 gr in 44 Mag or a 300 Gr in 454 Casull. A big hard cast bullet with a big meplat will do wonders in that round. Think of it as the 475 Linebaugh Short.


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## Bore.224

dakotashooter2 said:


> My boondocks gun is Glock 20 10mm. I know it's not a wheel gun but it carries 16 rounds of .41 mag-like ammo
> 
> 
> 
> While in most cased this would be a very servicable gun, if the occasion arose that a bear had you on your back and your only option was to press the gun into the beast and fire, it is said the slide on a semi auto could easily be pushed out of battery causing a failure to fire. One of the reasons that revovers are generally recomended. The mountain gun is a good option. The DA will also allow one handed fire without having to cock the hammer, if the need arises.
Click to expand...

WOW! I have a glock 20 as well and so far love it, I will not say it is a better choice for defence against a bear but having 15 rounds of 200grn bullets going 1200fps feels pretty good.


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## Plainsman

I think when someone is talking self defense for bears we better not bs the guy. The big frames and large barrels are hunting weapons, not self defense. Also if the guy reloads some have offered good advise, but if he doesn't that put some calibers into the less than desirable pile. I have a Smith 8 3/8 inch barrel and like someone said why use that for self defense when it's only slightly less weight than a good shotgun or lever action. 
The large frame revolvers are great hunting weapons, but a poor choice for self defense. Even in relatively open country out in the mountains I would more often leave my 8 3/8 inch behind. For that reason I purchased the 4 inch.
Your chances of getting a large X frame smith on target in heavy woods fast enough is very poor. Your chances of hitting on the first shot with any isn't real good. Chances of a fast follow up with the 500 or 460 are very poor. 
Short barrel 500's like the Alaskan are going to loose so much energy in that length the only reason a bear will not eat you is because he will be deaf and not hear you running through the woods after the first shot. It will be hard for him to see you also since it will take a couple of minutes for his eye balls to return to round after the concussion.

I have shot most of the handguns everyone is talking about. So has huntin1 and NDTerminator. Four good caliber choices are 44 mag, 45 colt if you reload, 454 Casual and 480 Ruger. I would prefer double action in a Smith or a Ruger. I doubt the semi auto are legal in Canada, and if you think Murphy can screw with a revolver you should see him with a semi auto.

You can buy 45 long colt from some semi custom manufactures that is really good. For simple, strong, and reliable, you could't beat a Ruger Vaquero in 45 long colt. No adjustable sights to mess up is it's outstanding quality and your not going to start shooting at a bear at 100 yards anyway. It's a single action, but if you want simple and reliable it will never let you down. Load it with a 300 gr hard cast flat nose and it will leave big, deep, leaky holes in whatever you drop the hammer on. Same goes for the 44, 480, and 454.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Bore.224 said:


> dakotashooter2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My boondocks gun is Glock 20 10mm. I know it's not a wheel gun but it carries 16 rounds of .41 mag-like ammo
> 
> 
> 
> While in most cased this would be a very servicable gun, if the occasion arose that a bear had you on your back and your only option was to press the gun into the beast and fire, it is said the slide on a semi auto could easily be pushed out of battery causing a failure to fire. One of the reasons that revovers are generally recomended. The mountain gun is a good option. The DA will also allow one handed fire without having to cock the hammer, if the need arises.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW! I have a glock 20 as well and so far love it, I will not say it is a better choice for defence against a bear but having 15 rounds of 200grn bullets going 1200fps feels pretty good.
Click to expand...

I have been reading many articles on this exact topic. I was thinking the same... getting a semi with many rounds..... well after reading these articles everyone of them said the same thing.... If you get more then two rounds off you are the man! You have a really fast trigger finger. By the time you realize you are lunch you don't have much time to pull that trigger. You better have something that is going to do damage, and you better be pumping that round in somewhere that counts bacause adrenaline does wonders. That bear can kill you when it is dead. Yes you read that right.... you may have killed that bear... aka heart not beating but it can keep attacking.

Moral of the story the biggest most efficient gun you can handle is what you need. The alaskan's are a good choice. They are unbeatable as far as toughness, however heavy. This is where I am running into troubles as I will be lugging it around with packs, bow, so on. Well you are more stationary for say so the weight isn't going to be AS huge of a deal. IMO I would have a alaskan on my belt, and a large bore lever action rifle close. That way you can start doing alittle damage from a ways away!

Just my .02!


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## API

I have a Glock model 22 in .40 s/w that can put 10 fairly decent holes in something pretty quickly. And as long as you're thinking to assure protection, be sure to fill the clip (or wheel) with some good quality hollow points.


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## Plainsman

> That way you can start doing alittle damage from a ways away!


If you do don't tell anyone, because anything out of close pistol range will not be considered self defense.



> be sure to fill the clip (or wheel) with some good quality hollow points.


Don't take my word for it read up. I worked with a fellow who had a bear come into their cabin. Six rounds of 44 hollowpoint and he still had them treed in the rafters. Two rounds of hard cast lead penetrated to the engine room and took him down. No hollowpoints in bear country unless you want it for bears under 300 pounds. Great for mountain lion. I read this for years and still didn't believe it. After shooting deer with my 44 with hollowpoints and cast lead I now believe the bear stories.

(Nope I don't know where those six rounds went. They could have all been into the behind, I don't know).

Since the guy asking advise could be laying his life on the line we need to think real hard if were going to give advise.

I think ABBK carries an Alaskan up in Alaska. I don't remember the caliber he carries. You might want to search for that.

Edit: Hey, I found it: http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... 92&start=0

He is shooting a 50 Cal and says its great. I take back knocking the 50 cal this guy has the experience with it. I still do knock the long barrels. We have a depty that goes to Texas and shoots hogs with his in the winter. It's a long barrel and he llikes it, but says it takes a rest to shoot decent.


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## API

Plainsman said:


> ...After shooting deer with my 44 with hollowpoints and cast lead I now believe the bear stories.


Does that mean that the do-gooders (who must be on the bear's side) have not yet caused lead to be banned in your neck of the woods.


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## Plainsman

API said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...After shooting deer with my 44 with hollowpoints and cast lead I now believe the bear stories.
> 
> 
> 
> Does that mean that the do-gooders (who must be on the bear's side) have not yet caused lead to be banned in your neck of the woods.
Click to expand...

Oh my gosh. Have those pantie waists in California stopped you from using lead? Heck I make my own. I have Saeco, RCBS, Lyman, and Lee moulds. I only cast for my large calibers. I think I have 600 lbs of lead on hand. Half of it pure lead for my muzzleloaders. Plain old wheel weight can be pushed to about 1800 fps. I add tin, but mostly to get a real nice sharp edge to the cast bullet. The old Lyman #2 alloy is 90% lead, 5% antimony, and 5% tin. The darn tin drives the price up to double. I have backed off to 2 1/2 % and don't see much difference. With the lower tin content I can cast 100 bullets for my 45/70 for about $5. I shoot those bullets at 2100 fps. 
Since using lead for my last five deer I don't think jacketed will get shot often if at all anymore in some of my rifles and handguns.


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## API

Plainsman said:


> API said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Oh my gosh. Have those pantie waists in California stopped you from using lead?
> 
> 
> 
> Whether we like it or not, it's true. In the area designated as "Condor Range" (about 1/3 of the state), no lead in possession while hunting since 2008. The real question is how long before they try to extend this to cover the entire state.
> 
> From page 3 of the 2009-2010 CA Mammal Hunting Regulations BOOKLET http://www.dfg.ca.gov/regulations/:
> 
> 
> 
> Effective July 1, 2008, it is illegal to use or possess lead projectiles (bullets) while hunting big game and non game species in the range of the endangered California condor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Plainsman

What do they think a Condor is going to swallow a wounded deer whole and ingest lead?  I think some endangered species are simply used as hammers to piece by piece tear away at hunting traditions. So what about muzzleloaders do you guys have to shoot X bullets in sabots or do they exempt old type firearms?

OOPs, sorry, I'm sort of hijacking this thread. PM me API and lets get back to the handgun recommendation on this thread.

My apologies Grokking.


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## pfast

For what its worth Taraus makes a titanium .44mag that is very light and easy to handle. But you wont get much practice with it though after dumping one cylinder your hand will hurt. It's like a bomb going off in your hand but it is light for taking with you.


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## mike landrich

Grokking
Did you get a handgun yet? If so, what did you get?


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## HARRY2

If i had to mix it with bears i would have to go with a Smith 500 magnum.


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## mike landrich

HARRY2 said:


> If i had to mix it with bears i would have to go with a Smith 500 magnum.


Bigger is better and the 500 S&W is king. But it does have drawbacks, including its biggest drawback, the ported barrel. While its better to be deaf than dead, I'd avoid the porting that usually accompanies the 500 S&W.


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## dsm16428

I've shot the shorter bbl rugers, smiths and taurus's stoked with Garrett 310 gr. Hammerhead hard casts in .44 mag. loaded at aprox 1000 fps in a 4" bbl (watch the over all length in older smiths though as they are noted for having somewhat shorter cylinders than say a ruger or a taurus). I consider mine to be both accurate...and reliable. Yeah it barks but believe me when I tell you its bite is worse than its bark when you need it to put the smack down on a bigger-than-you furry woodland creature that means to eat ya!! Doesn't smith also make a scandium frame "mountain" (at about 26 ounces)? Also buffalo bore makes some baaaad-azzed pistol (and riffle rounds)! My .45 LC loves the 325 gr. lbt-lfn loads at around 1325 fps (a little less with a 4" bbl) but at danger-close whose splittin hairs right? My .444 marlin lever eats up the 270 gr. and 335 gr. flat nose buffalo bore too!! At between about 2000 and 2250fps. it aint messin around either. If it came down to absolute reliability though...and for you I think it should, you might want to look into a 4" bbl revolver in AT LEAST .44 caliber for your belt, and the good old 870 with ghost ring sights close-at-hand stoked with heavy slugs and no smaller than 00 buck...maybe even in tungsten-iron for that extra little bit of penetration. be carefull and hope ya strike it rich!!


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## budman461

grokking,

factoring ease of carry, ammunition availablity, simplicity, ruggedness, ease of carry and...yes, cost, you might opt for a stainless, 4 5/8" barreled ruger bisley single-action model.

blackhawks are incredibly rugged and will handle ammunition up to the heavily loaded 300-325 gr buffalo bore +P stuff.

budman


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## Stone Fence

I have shot a 629 and hated it. It was just painful. DH has a Dan Wesson .44 with a nice wood grip that shoots much nicer than the S&W. Perhaps a .357? .38 special is cheaper for practice. I am not up on what ballistics are necessary for bears.

Those other S&W cannons (500 and 480) have got to be pretty pricey and the ammo is too.


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## mike landrich

Stone Fence said:


> I have shot a 629 and hated it. It was just painful. DH has a Dan Wesson .44 with a nice wood grip that shoots much nicer than the S&W. Perhaps a .357? .38 special is cheaper for practice. I am not up on what ballistics are necessary for bears.
> 
> Those other S&W cannons (500 and 480) have got to be pretty pricey and the ammo is too.


357 is WAY underpowered (small bore + small meplat= dead trapper). The bigger the bore and the bigger meplat of a hard-cast bullet= dead bear. The cost of ammo should not be a factor for a defensive handgun for bear. How can you put a price on something that you may get 1 or 2 shots from when a 1000 lb Grizzly is charging?


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## engberg27

I just happened to pick up a colt anaconda this year with a 2x4x power on it . Ibought cause its a colt and they only made them for eight years and its a colt did i mention. I took it deer hunting this year pulled up on a runing doe it was hard to shoot with the scope on i took the scope of and that gun is beautiful perfectly balanced it shoots like a dream for a big bore if you have the money to spend (1100) for one of these i would recommend a anaconda or a python i had a super blackhawk and it kicked like a mule the colt is the way to go for me o yeah by the way its a .44 mag


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## specialpatrolgroup

If you are new to revolvers, and looking for a self defense gun, please note the differnce bettween single and double action, single action guyn you need to cock the hammer back before firing each time, double actions you can just pull the trigger, even if the gun is not cocked, however the trigger pull willbe much heavier. I spend quite a bit of time aroudn black bears, baiting them, making and mowing trails, and carry a Tarus .44 mag, double action, I like the idea that cocking the hammer is one less thing I have to concern myself with if I am in a hury to throw some lead.


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## Chevyman

NDTerminator said:


> Gotta add that Ruger is now making the Redhawk in 44 Mag or 45LC with a 4" barrel and Hogue grips. Kind of their answer to the S&W Mountain Gun.
> 
> I think a 4" Redhawk with Hogue grips is about as close to a perfect field bellygun as a guy could want, especially in 45LC. In the Redhawk the 45LC can be loaded to it's full potential, which eclipses the 44 Mag by quite a margin.
> 
> I"m so intrigued that I asked the local dealer to get one in 44 Mag for me to look over. Sight unseen, I'm about 80% certain that I'll buy it. The only reason I'll go with the 44 over the 45 is that I'm set up to load it and have a lot of 44 bullets on hand.
> 
> Much as I love the graceful lines & smooth action of the S&W 629, I would be the first to state the Redhawk is far stronger & a much simpler design. That means much less chance Mr. Murphy shows up to roil the waters about the time you need your bellygun to work in a big way!...


This is absolutley incorrect. The Redhawk is not 45LC. You have to get the Super Redhawk in 454 Casull caliber in order to fire the 45 LC. You can get the Super Redhawk in 44 mag but you can't fire the 45LC in it. Trust me i just purchased one last week. The 454 Casull is much more powerfull but the only reason you would fire a 45LC in it is if you are afraid of the 454 or you wanted cheaper ammo as the 454 costs more. However i will agree with you that when you consider cost versus quality Ruger is the best deal in handguns and i would challenge anyone to find a better built or shooting gun. I absolutley am in love with mine and trust me when i say if a large bear confronts you, one pull of the trigger with this thing and the confrontation is over. A shotgun unless you have a 12ga with a Sabot tipped slug in it all you are going to do is piss him off. I would advise anyone for the large game or bears, put the shotgun down and get a real gun. RUGER


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## Chevyman

mike landrich said:


> Stone Fence said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have shot a 629 and hated it. It was just painful. DH has a Dan Wesson .44 with a nice wood grip that shoots much nicer than the S&W. Perhaps a .357? .38 special is cheaper for practice. I am not up on what ballistics are necessary for bears.
> 
> Those other S&W cannons (500 and 480) have got to be pretty pricey and the ammo is too.
> 
> 
> 
> 357 is WAY underpowered (small bore + small meplat= dead trapper). The bigger the bore and the bigger meplat of a hard-cast bullet= dead bear. The cost of ammo should not be a factor for a defensive handgun for bear. How can you put a price on something that you may get 1 or 2 shots from when a 1000 lb Grizzly is charging?
Click to expand...

I will agree with you that the 357 is not adequate at all for anything hunting and certinly not for large game wildlife protection. However you were mistaken about the S&W 500 or 480. Smith doesn't make the 480 Ruger does and it is not as powerfull as the Ruger 454 Casull. The Smiths are the 500 and the 460 XVR. A 357 would make a grizzly laugh at you before he ripped you apart. A 454 Casull will drop him straight to the ground, confrontation over. As for Dan Wesson i wouldn't own one. Ever try getting parts for them, Dan Wesson was going out of buisness a while ago so i wouldn't put any faith in them at all. You can't be worried about the kick on a large calibur hunting/ protection gun, you have to know up front they are all going to kick the you no what out of you. As far as the ballistics go consider this. A 44 mag has a little over 800 lbs psi knockdown energy at the muzzle, a ruger 454 Casull has over 1100 psi at 100 yards. Which one would you rather have when a 1000 lb grizzly is charging you.


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## Chevyman

Plainsman said:


> That way you can start doing alittle damage from a ways away!
> 
> 
> 
> If you do don't tell anyone, because anything out of close pistol range will not be considered self defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> be sure to fill the clip (or wheel) with some good quality hollow points.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't take my word for it read up. I worked with a fellow who had a bear come into their cabin. Six rounds of 44 hollowpoint and he still had them treed in the rafters. Two rounds of hard cast lead penetrated to the engine room and took him down. No hollowpoints in bear country unless you want it for bears under 300 pounds. Great for mountain lion. I read this for years and still didn't believe it. After shooting deer with my 44 with hollowpoints and cast lead I now believe the bear stories.
> 
> (Nope I don't know where those six rounds went. They could have all been into the behind, I don't know).
> 
> Since the guy asking advise could be laying his life on the line we need to think real hard if were going to give advise.
> 
> I think ABBK carries an Alaskan up in Alaska. I don't remember the caliber he carries. You might want to search for that.
> 
> Edit: Hey, I found it: viewtopic.php?t=21192&start=0
> 
> He is shooting a 50 Cal and says its great. I take back knocking the 50 cal this guy has the experience with it. I still do knock the long barrels. We have a depty that goes to Texas and shoots hogs with his in the winter. It's a long barrel and he llikes it, but says it takes a rest to shoot decent.
Click to expand...

It took 6 shots because of the inadequate weapon. Using a 44 on a bear is like going Great White shark fishing with 6 lb test line, what do you expect :lol: . I would suggest for bear, put down the 44, obviously by your story it will only piss the bear off unless you have one of these special loads that most of us don't have and you need to be carefull of anyway. As far as ballistics goes consider this. A 44 mag has a little over 800 lbs psi knockdown force at the muzzle. A Ruger 454 Casull has over 1100 psi at 100 yards. I ask you, which one would you rather have when a 1000 pound grizzly is charging you and who is worried about the kick. You have to know up front that the large caliber handguns are going to kick th crap out of you but is one going to be more worried about the kick or getting his head ripped off because he just used a pea shooter to defend himself from a bear attack :eyeroll: . I used the Ruger 454 casull for reference because i just recently purchased a Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull and trust me i won't need 6. If i am confronted by a bear of any kind, one pull of the trigger on that cannon and the confrontation is over and i still have 5 left in case papa bear and the others decide they want a try. Believe me even if you miss,, with a Ruger 454 Casull, a S&W 500 or a S&W 460 XVR as soon as the thing goes off the wildlife in front of you will instantly realize they have made a grave error in judgement and will probably take a different route and if they don't then you have the proper thing in your hand to drop him without having to reload because you brought a pea shooter to a gun fight.


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## swampthing

Given the fact that this guy claims to know nothing about revolvers, i think he would find even a 44 mag a hand full and it would take alot of time and practice with it to be deadly enough to put a charging bear's lights out.....Since he has the bells/early warning system...I would say go with a marlin 450,444, 45-70, or a good pump shotgun & slugs


----------



## Savage260

> I used the Ruger 454 casull for reference because i just recently purchased a Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull and trust me i won't need 6. If i am confronted by a bear of any kind, one pull of the trigger on that cannon and the confrontation is over and i still have 5 left in case papa bear and the others decide they want a try. Believe me even if you miss,, with a Ruger 454 Casull, a S&W 500 or a S&W 460 XVR as soon as the thing goes off the wildlife in front of you will instantly realize they have made a grave error in judgement and will probably take a different route and if they don't then you have the proper thing in your hand to drop him without having to reload because you brought a pea shooter to a gun fight.


Ok, Fred, any time you want to come home from the Land of Make Believe just jump back on the trolly!!!


----------



## Chevyman

Savage260 said:


> I used the Ruger 454 casull for reference because i just recently purchased a Ruger Super Redhawk 454 Casull and trust me i won't need 6. If i am confronted by a bear of any kind, one pull of the trigger on that cannon and the confrontation is over and i still have 5 left in case papa bear and the others decide they want a try. Believe me even if you miss,, with a Ruger 454 Casull, a S&W 500 or a S&W 460 XVR as soon as the thing goes off the wildlife in front of you will instantly realize they have made a grave error in judgement and will probably take a different route and if they don't then you have the proper thing in your hand to drop him without having to reload because you brought a pea shooter to a gun fight.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, Fred, any time you want to come home from the Land of Make Believe just jump back on the trolly!!!
Click to expand...

Refer to this article and then tell me i am in a make believe world, or better yet try telling the man in this article that it is make believe. I was simply making the point that a 44 was not a bear gun but the 454 Casull was. Thats not that difficult to understand now is it. REALLY. Refer to the below article. I rest my case. :sniper:

http://www.adn.com/2009/08/13/897940/tw ... er-to.html


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## Savage260

REALLY???

"Total luck shot," he said.

Your case just got blown wide open!!!

I wasn't talking about your choice of weapons as much as the bravado. I should have shortened the quote a bit.

Chasing off a bear that isn't overly aggressive with a loud noise is one thing, chasing off a charging, PO'ed bear with that same loud noise is going to be quite another.

"...trust me i won't need 6. If i am confronted by a bear of any kind, one pull of the trigger on that cannon and the confrontation is over and i still have 5 left in case papa bear and the others decide they want a try."

This is presuming you are not so frozen by fear that you can even draw your pistol, or that you will have time to draw your pistol at all. If you can function when the pucker factor gets really tight your ability to actually hit any thing is greatly diminished, so you better touch off all 6 and any more you might be carrying. In fact hitting it would be......a total luck shot!!

"Believe me even if you miss,,..."

Well, if you can get me some evidence that you have experience with a bear attack and your .454 then I might just believe you!


----------



## Chevyman

Savage260 said:


> REALLY???
> 
> "Total luck shot," he said.
> 
> Your case just got blown wide open!!!
> 
> I wasn't talking about your choice of weapons as much as the bravado. I should have shortened the quote a bit.
> 
> Chasing off a bear that isn't overly aggressive with a loud noise is one thing, chasing off a charging, PO'ed bear with that same loud noise is going to be quite another.
> 
> "...trust me i won't need 6. If i am confronted by a bear of any kind, one pull of the trigger on that cannon and the confrontation is over and i still have 5 left in case papa bear and the others decide they want a try."
> 
> This is presuming you are not so frozen by fear that you can even draw your pistol, or that you will have time to draw your pistol at all. If you can function when the pucker factor gets really tight your ability to actually hit any thing is greatly diminished, so you better touch off all 6 and any more you might be carrying. In fact hitting it would be......a total luck shot!!
> 
> "Believe me even if you miss,,..."
> 
> Well, if you can get me some evidence that you have experience with a bear attack and your .454 then I might just believe you!


Man come on, the point wasn't that the man was an expert shot, obviuosly he wasn't. The point is that the paticular weapon we are talking about is sufficent to do the job relatively quick, which it is. And the mere fact that this man was able to be completely suprised and was able to get his gun out, fire, and do the job when the bear was in full rush from 20 yards says that it can be done. Whether me or you could do it doesn't matter, the pont is is that it is possible. Maybe YOU would be to terrified, that depends on the individual. I would like to think my specialized military training wouldn't allow that but you really don't know until confronted with it now do you. Look dude, nature isn't stupid, they know what we are and they know what guns are, Unless they are drivin by hunger or little ones are around most of nature would retreat if you fired a freakin 22 for cryin out loud, but im guessing you already know all of this you are just the type of person that likes to argue and misses the point totaly.


----------



## Savage260

I know that we have no clue how we will react when it hits the fan because of my LE training. I also know that an animal doesn't know a rifle from a folding chair due to my education.

I must have missed your point because after reading about how you were going to shoot all the bears attacking you, the point got buried in the BS.

The .454,460,and 500S&W are all fine choices, but you have shown nothing to back up your claim that the .44 can't do the job. I believe that was supposed to be your point.

I am going to have to guess that a .44 mag with the proper bullet would have done the job quite nicely given that same "total luck shot".

Who said any thing about any one being an expert shot??

Let me guess you are either a Marine Sniper, an Army Ranger, or a Navy Seal, right???? Seems all you young guys with some thing to prove are one of these three! One day when you get a little older you will realize how your "I still have 5 left to take on papa bear and every one else" bravado sounds to the rest of us.

Stay safe and don't let any bears get you!


----------



## mike landrich

Chevyman said:


> mike landrich said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stone Fence said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have shot a 629 and hated it. It was just painful. DH has a Dan Wesson .44 with a nice wood grip that shoots much nicer than the S&W. Perhaps a .357? .38 special is cheaper for practice. I am not up on what ballistics are necessary for bears.
> 
> Those other S&W cannons (500 and 480) have got to be pretty pricey and the ammo is too.
> 
> 
> 
> 357 is WAY underpowered (small bore + small meplat= dead trapper). The bigger the bore and the bigger meplat of a hard-cast bullet= dead bear. The cost of ammo should not be a factor for a defensive handgun for bear. How can you put a price on something that you may get 1 or 2 shots from when a 1000 lb Grizzly is charging?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I will agree with you that the 357 is not adequate at all for anything hunting and certinly not for large game wildlife protection. However you were mistaken about the S&W 500 or 480. Smith doesn't make the 480 Ruger does and it is not as powerfull as the Ruger 454 Casull. The Smiths are the 500 and the 460 XVR. A 357 would make a grizzly laugh at you before he ripped you apart. A 454 Casull will drop him straight to the ground, confrontation over. As for Dan Wesson i wouldn't own one. Ever try getting parts for them, Dan Wesson was going out of buisness a while ago so i wouldn't put any faith in them at all. You can't be worried about the kick on a large calibur hunting/ protection gun, you have to know up front they are all going to kick the you no what out of you. As far as the ballistics go consider this. A 44 mag has a little over 800 lbs psi knockdown energy at the muzzle, a ruger 454 Casull has over 1100 psi at 100 yards. Which one would you rather have when a 1000 lb grizzly is charging you.
Click to expand...

I was not wrong about anything. It was the person to whom I was replying that mentioned the 480 as a S&W product. But I will say you may be missing something very important, if you think the 454 Casull to be be superior to the 480 Ruger. That is penetration and bore. The Ruger shoots heavier hard-cast bullets, with a bigger bore and bigger meplat. The Casull is a noticeably smaller bore, so you get less tissue damage. The lighter,faster bullet does not penetrate as well either. So the 454 is faster and flatter shooting, which don't mean much at close range, but it doesn't penetrate as deeply or do as much damage, which means everything. There is more to a defensive gun than simple comparison of muzzle energy.


----------



## Savage260

Mike, don't try to explain any thing to this fellow, he knows it all, plus he has "specialized military training" and "specific military training". Not quite sure what that means, but after reading a few of his posts, he and his trusty .454 Casull are the be all end all in shooting bear, and intruders. :eyeroll:


----------



## mike landrich

Savage260 said:


> Mike, don't try to explain any thing to this fellow, he knows it all,


I got that impression, but haven't been on here much recently, so I didn't know ho he is. What I like best is his guns measure power in psi, not ft lbs. Maybe they are CO2 powered air guns, not revolvers. :rollin:


----------



## mike landrich

Hey Chevyman
I forget the magazine or author, but I remember reading a story about a hunter in Alaska who was hunting Grizzly with a 375 jdj and a Freedom Arms 454. The bear took an aimed shot from the Contender and then a whole cylinder from the revolver and still ran into thick brush before expiring. Either way, I bet he knew how to shoot and the bear still took a bunch of lead. I'm going to capitalize the next 2 sentences so you get the point of how important it is..........NO HANDGUN HAS THE POWER TO DROP A BEAR WITH 1 SHOT EVERY TIME. REPEAT NO HANDGUN, NOT 500 OR 460 S&W, NOT 500 OR 475 LINEBAUGH, NOT 500 WYOMING, NOT 480 RUGER, NOT EVEN 454 CASULL (the least effective of the big bores).

Do some research before spouting uninformed misinformation.

I checked with a buddy of mine who really was a Recon Marine sniper. His specialized training did not include bear defense. Besides, it wouldn't be the same with an M9. So what exactly did you do in the military? Just to be fair, vagueness will be interpreted as BS.


----------



## Stinky Findings

My 2 cents Pard
If the weather is always wet (rain snow) i' d go stainless. For cal and ammo I'd go with 44 mag or better what you want is to open up a big wound channel . also keep in mind that the longer the barrel the less energy transfer you will lose. I'd get some good hollow points and if you reload use copper jacketed hollow points and load them hot hopefully you'll only need one (if you need 2 feed him an arm and give him a few more lol)


----------



## mike landrich

Stinky Findings said:


> My 2 cents Pard
> If the weather is always wet (rain snow) i' d go stainless. For cal and ammo I'd go with 44 mag or better what you want is to open up a big wound channel . also keep in mind that the longer the barrel the less energy transfer you will lose. I'd get some good hollow points and if you reload use copper jacketed hollow points and load them hot hopefully you'll only need one (if you need 2 feed him an arm and give him a few more lol)


Hollow points have no business in bear country. A hollow point expands and loses bullet weight as it breaks up, which is why you always see the words "weight retention" on ads for hollow or soft points. It also loses penetration, which is critical when you hit a heavy boned critter like a Grizzly. A big meplat (flat nose on a bullet) with a well designed cutting ring (Keith style bullets) on a hard cast bullet will do a much more effective job than hollow point.


----------



## Chevyman

mike landrich said:


> Hey Chevyman
> I forget the magazine or author, but I remember reading a story about a hunter in Alaska who was hunting Grizzly with a 375 jdj and a Freedom Arms 454. The bear took an aimed shot from the Contender and then a whole cylinder from the revolver and still ran into thick brush before expiring. Either way, I bet he knew how to shoot and the bear still took a bunch of lead. I'm going to capitalize the next 2 sentences so you get the point of how important it is..........NO HANDGUN HAS THE POWER TO DROP A BEAR WITH 1 SHOT EVERY TIME. REPEAT NO HANDGUN, NOT 500 OR 460 S&W, NOT 500 OR 475 LINEBAUGH, NOT 500 WYOMING, NOT 480 RUGER, NOT EVEN 454 CASULL (the least effective of the big bores).
> 
> Do some research before spouting uninformed misinformation.
> 
> I checked with a buddy of mine who really was a Recon Marine sniper. His specialized training did not include bear defense. Besides, it wouldn't be the same with an M9. So what exactly did you do in the military? Just to be fair, vagueness will be interpreted as BS.


I need to learn research. You don't know the meaning. Let me give you some ballistics info from Hornady. You can argue with them. I believe they know a little bit about what they are talking about. Here is the chart below for you moron. You will see that the 454 Casull has more knockdown energy at 100 yards than the 480 does at muzzle. You are probably one of those people that believes the larger the number and if it is slightly larger in diameter then it has to be more powerful. What a shallow mind. Ballistics don't lie. CorBon offers a 360 grain penetrator that out performs a 400 grain 480 and its not close. Those numbers aren't even on this chart. You also made the comment that all you have to do is look at the size differense of the bulllet. I believe your comment was "noticable". Well your right except its not the 480 thats larger, its the 454. Since your stupid here is a picture reference for you as well. That way you can argue with your own eyes.This will be the attatchment. As far as the comment about military training, all i meant by that was depending on what you do the military you learn how to maintain your mental faculties in extreme situations and not lose your cool so that you can still be effective. Of course the military doesn't train their soldiers in bear defense. Duh Huh. By you even inquiring about it shows what you mental capability really is. We already know you can't read or see so this info probably won't do you any good either but at least you can't say you don't have it. Now that you have the info this no longer makes you ignorant, now your just plain stupid and you know what Ron White says, "you just can't fix stupid". The picture of the bullet comparison is in the attatchment. The Hornady chart is below.

CARTRIDGE BULLET ITEM # BARREL
LENGTH MUZZLE 50 yds 100 yds MUZZLE 50 yds 100 yds
44-40 Cowboy 205 gr. Cowboy 9075 7½" 725 689 655 239 216 195
44 Special 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9070 7½" 1000 935 882 400 349 311
44 Rem Mag 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9081 7½" 1550 1340 1173 960 717 550
44 Rem Mag 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9080 7½" 1500 1333 1196 999 789 635
44 Rem Mag 240 gr. JHP/XTP 9085 7½" 1350 1231 1134 971 807 685
44 Rem Mag 300 gr. JHP/XTP 9088 5" 1150 1084 1031 881 782 708
45 Auto 185 gr. JHP/XTP 9090 5" 970 910 860 386 340 304
45 Auto 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9112 5" 900 856 817 360 325 296
45 Auto+P 200 gr. TAP-FPD 91128 5" 1055 982 926 494 428 380
45 Auto+P 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9113 5" 1055 982 926 494 428 380
45 Auto+P 230 gr. JHP/XTP 9096 5" 950 908 872 461 421 385
45 Auto 230 gr. FMJ RN ENC 9097 5" 850 818 788 369 342 317
45 Auto+P 230 gr. TAP-FPD 90958 5" 950 908 872 461 421 388
45 Colt 255 gr. Cowboy 9115 4¾" 725 687 651 298 267 240
454 Casull 240 gr. XTP MAG 9148 7½" 1900 1678 1478 1923 1500 1163
454 Casull 300 gr. XTP MAG 9150 7½" 1650 1490 1348 1813 1480 1210
460 S&W 200 gr. SST 9152 83⁄
⁄8" 2200 1948 1715 2149 1685 1305
475 Linebaugh 400 gr. XTP MAG 9140 7½" 1300 1177 1084 1501 1231 1043
480 Ruger 325 gr. XTP MAG 9138 7½" 1350 1193 1078 1315 1026 839
480 Ruger 400 gr. XTP MAG 9144 7½" 1100 1027 971 1075 937 838
500 S&W 300 gr. EVOLUTION 9249 10" 2075 1885 1706 2868 2366 1939
500 S&W 350 gr. XTP MAG 9250 10" 1900 1656 1439 2805 2131 1610
500 S&W 500 gr. FP-XTP 9252 10" 1425 1281 1164 2254 1823 1505
HORNADY, Accurate. Deadly. Dependable.


----------



## Savage260

chevy, do us all a favor and run a practical test with your vaunted hand cannon. Go into big bear country with your one round(since you claim that is all it will take for bear or intruders) and wait until you come face to face with a big nasty bruin. If you come back from the encounter(due to your "specific" and "specalized" military training) you can tell us "I told you so", if not.... well, you are 6'5" and 245lbs, you can just kick the bears a$$, so we won't have to worry about you, right??? Don't worry, you will be just fine with your one round and super cannon muzzle blast! To use your favorite phrase......"Trust Me."

You never did tell us what branch of the service you are in, and what your "special" training is.


----------



## mike landrich

Chevyman said:


> [
> 
> I need to learn research. You don't know the meaning. Let me give you some ballistics info from Hornady. You can argue with them. I believe they know a little bit about what they are talking about. Here is the chart below for you moron. You will see that the 454 Casull has more knockdown energy at 100 yards than the 480 does at muzzle. You are probably one of those people that believes the larger the number and if it is slightly larger in diameter then it has to be more powerful. What a shallow mind. Ballistics don't lie. CorBon offers a 360 grain penetrator that out performs a 400 grain 480 and its not close. Those numbers aren't even on this chart. *You also made the comment that all you have to do is look at the size differense of the bulllet. I believe your comment was "noticable". Well your right except its not the 480 thats larger, its the 454.* Since your stupid here is a picture reference for you as well. That way you can argue with your own eyes.This will be the attatchment. As far as the comment about military training, all i meant by that was depending on what you do the military you learn how to maintain your mental faculties in extreme situations and not lose your cool so that you can still be effective. Of course the military doesn't train their soldiers in bear defense. Duh Huh. By you even inquiring about it shows what you mental capability really is. We already know you can't read or see so this info probably won't do you any good either but at least you can't say you don't have it. Now that you have the info this no longer makes you ignorant, now your just plain stupid and you know what Ron White says, "you just can't fix stupid". The picture of the bullet comparison is in the attatchment. The Hornady chart is below.
> 
> CARTRIDGE BULLET ITEM # BARREL
> LENGTH MUZZLE 50 yds 100 yds MUZZLE 50 yds 100 yds
> 44-40 Cowboy 205 gr. Cowboy 9075 7½" 725 689 655 239 216 195
> 44 Special 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9070 7½" 1000 935 882 400 349 311
> 44 Rem Mag 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9081 7½" 1550 1340 1173 960 717 550
> 44 Rem Mag 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9080 7½" 1500 1333 1196 999 789 635
> 44 Rem Mag 240 gr. JHP/XTP 9085 7½" 1350 1231 1134 971 807 685
> 44 Rem Mag 300 gr. JHP/XTP 9088 5" 1150 1084 1031 881 782 708
> 45 Auto 185 gr. JHP/XTP 9090 5" 970 910 860 386 340 304
> 45 Auto 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9112 5" 900 856 817 360 325 296
> 45 Auto+P 200 gr. TAP-FPD 91128 5" 1055 982 926 494 428 380
> 45 Auto+P 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9113 5" 1055 982 926 494 428 380
> 45 Auto+P 230 gr. JHP/XTP 9096 5" 950 908 872 461 421 385
> 45 Auto 230 gr. FMJ RN ENC 9097 5" 850 818 788 369 342 317
> 45 Auto+P 230 gr. TAP-FPD 90958 5" 950 908 872 461 421 388
> 45 Colt 255 gr. Cowboy 9115 4¾" 725 687 651 298 267 240
> 454 Casull 240 gr. XTP MAG 9148 7½" 1900 1678 1478 1923 1500 1163
> 454 Casull 300 gr. XTP MAG 9150 7½" 1650 1490 1348 1813 1480 1210
> 460 S&W 200 gr. SST 9152 83⁄
> ⁄8" 2200 1948 1715 2149 1685 1305
> 475 Linebaugh 400 gr. XTP MAG 9140 7½" 1300 1177 1084 1501 1231 1043
> 480 Ruger 325 gr. XTP MAG 9138 7½" 1350 1193 1078 1315 1026 839
> 480 Ruger 400 gr. XTP MAG 9144 7½" 1100 1027 971 1075 937 838
> 500 S&W 300 gr. EVOLUTION 9249 10" 2075 1885 1706 2868 2366 1939
> 500 S&W 350 gr. XTP MAG 9250 10" 1900 1656 1439 2805 2131 1610
> 500 S&W 500 gr. FP-XTP 9252 10" 1425 1281 1164 2254 1823 1505
> HORNADY, Accurate. Deadly. Dependable.


All those words and yet you couldn't stay on topic. I said the 480 has a much larger bore. Bore is not bullet length, so your pic means crap. Read the words used and respond to them. If we were using the terms "cartridge length" or "OAL" you would be on subject. We weren't; therefore, you weren't. A "bore" is a measurement taken of a bullet (to make you understand I define bullet as "thingy that comes out of the barrel"). Your picture shows cartridges, of which the bullet is only one component. Who's stupid now? BTW I didn't correct your spelling, but I think you meant "you're stupid". And as for the "bear defense" question, no doubt the military doesn't train for it. Its sarcasm and was lost on the weak-minded. I bet Savage 260 got it, and yet you didn't.

As for the ballistics chart, all those bullets are jacketed and most are hollow points. Not effective grizzly bear medicine. Get similar info for hard cast bullets and see which performs better. To really make it interesting, get a chart showing muzzle energy of the heavier bullets, not muzzle velocity. Which bullet is a bigger bore and therefore inflicts more damage, since they do not mushroom? Hint, its not the 454?

As for your specialized military training, you now admit to "As far as the comment about military training, all i meant by that was depending on what you do the military you learn how to maintain your mental faculties in extreme situations and not lose your cool so that you can still be effective." Every job teaches that. I bet most loggers in British Columbia have more specialized training and experience than you will ever have. So your specialization was what again?

Maybe, you need to compensate and think you have the "biggest gun". So, just to make peace, I'll say it "Wow, its huge". Did I sound like your girl? I bet I did.


----------



## Savage260

I bet Savage 260 got it, and yet you didn't.

Yea, and I am DUMB....oh, wait...I mean...NO...umm....... :rollin: :rollin:


----------



## Chevyman

mike landrich said:


> Chevyman said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> I need to learn research. You don't know the meaning. Let me give you some ballistics info from Hornady. You can argue with them. I believe they know a little bit about what they are talking about. Here is the chart below for you moron. You will see that the 454 Casull has more knockdown energy at 100 yards than the 480 does at muzzle. You are probably one of those people that believes the larger the number and if it is slightly larger in diameter then it has to be more powerful. What a shallow mind. Ballistics don't lie. CorBon offers a 360 grain penetrator that out performs a 400 grain 480 and its not close. Those numbers aren't even on this chart. *You also made the comment that all you have to do is look at the size differense of the bulllet. I believe your comment was "noticable". Well your right except its not the 480 thats larger, its the 454.* Since your stupid here is a picture reference for you as well. That way you can argue with your own eyes.This will be the attatchment. As far as the comment about military training, all i meant by that was depending on what you do the military you learn how to maintain your mental faculties in extreme situations and not lose your cool so that you can still be effective. Of course the military doesn't train their soldiers in bear defense. Duh Huh. By you even inquiring about it shows what you mental capability really is. We already know you can't read or see so this info probably won't do you any good either but at least you can't say you don't have it. Now that you have the info this no longer makes you ignorant, now your just plain stupid and you know what Ron White says, "you just can't fix stupid". The picture of the bullet comparison is in the attatchment. The Hornady chart is below.
> 
> CARTRIDGE BULLET ITEM # BARREL
> LENGTH MUZZLE 50 yds 100 yds MUZZLE 50 yds 100 yds
> 44-40 Cowboy 205 gr. Cowboy 9075 7½" 725 689 655 239 216 195
> 44 Special 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9070 7½" 1000 935 882 400 349 311
> 44 Rem Mag 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9081 7½" 1550 1340 1173 960 717 550
> 44 Rem Mag 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9080 7½" 1500 1333 1196 999 789 635
> 44 Rem Mag 240 gr. JHP/XTP 9085 7½" 1350 1231 1134 971 807 685
> 44 Rem Mag 300 gr. JHP/XTP 9088 5" 1150 1084 1031 881 782 708
> 45 Auto 185 gr. JHP/XTP 9090 5" 970 910 860 386 340 304
> 45 Auto 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9112 5" 900 856 817 360 325 296
> 45 Auto+P 200 gr. TAP-FPD 91128 5" 1055 982 926 494 428 380
> 45 Auto+P 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9113 5" 1055 982 926 494 428 380
> 45 Auto+P 230 gr. JHP/XTP 9096 5" 950 908 872 461 421 385
> 45 Auto 230 gr. FMJ RN ENC 9097 5" 850 818 788 369 342 317
> 45 Auto+P 230 gr. TAP-FPD 90958 5" 950 908 872 461 421 388
> 45 Colt 255 gr. Cowboy 9115 4¾" 725 687 651 298 267 240
> 454 Casull 240 gr. XTP MAG 9148 7½" 1900 1678 1478 1923 1500 1163
> 454 Casull 300 gr. XTP MAG 9150 7½" 1650 1490 1348 1813 1480 1210
> 460 S&W 200 gr. SST 9152 83⁄
> ⁄8" 2200 1948 1715 2149 1685 1305
> 475 Linebaugh 400 gr. XTP MAG 9140 7½" 1300 1177 1084 1501 1231 1043
> 480 Ruger 325 gr. XTP MAG 9138 7½" 1350 1193 1078 1315 1026 839
> 480 Ruger 400 gr. XTP MAG 9144 7½" 1100 1027 971 1075 937 838
> 500 S&W 300 gr. EVOLUTION 9249 10" 2075 1885 1706 2868 2366 1939
> 500 S&W 350 gr. XTP MAG 9250 10" 1900 1656 1439 2805 2131 1610
> 500 S&W 500 gr. FP-XTP 9252 10" 1425 1281 1164 2254 1823 1505
> HORNADY, Accurate. Deadly. Dependable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All those words and yet you couldn't stay on topic. I said the 480 has a much larger bore. Bore is not bullet length, so your pic means crap. Read the words used and respond to them. If we were using the terms "cartridge length" or "OAL" you would be on subject. We weren't; therefore, you weren't. A "bore" is a measurement taken of a bullet (to make you understand I define bullet as "thingy that comes out of the barrel"). Your picture shows cartridges, of which the bullet is only one component. Who's stupid now? BTW I didn't correct your spelling, but I think you meant "you're stupid". And as for the "bear defense" question, no doubt the military doesn't train for it. Its sarcasm and was lost on the weak-minded. I bet Savage 260 got it, and yet you didn't.
> 
> As for the ballistics chart, all those bullets are jacketed and most are hollow points. Not effective grizzly bear medicine. Get similar info for hard cast bullets and see which performs better. To really make it interesting, get a chart showing muzzle energy of the heavier bullets, not muzzle velocity. Which bullet is a bigger bore and therefore inflicts more damage, since they do not mushroom? Hint, its not the 454?
> 
> As for your specialized military training, you now admit to "As far as the comment about military training, all i meant by that was depending on what you do the military you learn how to maintain your mental faculties in extreme situations and not lose your cool so that you can still be effective." Every job teaches that. I bet most loggers in British Columbia have more specialized training and experience than you will ever have. So your specialization was what again?
> 
> Maybe, you need to compensate and think you have the "biggest gun". So, just to make peace, I'll say it "Wow, its huge". Did I sound like your girl? I bet I did.
Click to expand...

Boy you guys must have been abused when little or something, your full of anger and all you want to do is batter someone for stating a simple opinion. Talk about compensating for something. At least i am trying to present some info as backup, you guys have presented SQUAT. And no you don't want to go into the hard cast ballistics because those numbers are even farther apart but im guessing you want me to go and find that to because you obviously can't. All your worried about is correcting spelling because you have nothing else. If you could you would have so ill do that, insted of me doing all the work, prove me wrong and show me the ballistics with hard cast between the 2 with a reputable source such as Hornady, CorBon etc, not your own crap. Or you could google African hunting with the 454 and find where the Cape Buffalo was taken with one shot at 110 yards. Yeah your right, probably wouldn't work on a bear half that size. What was i thinking. Besides someone has already done a field test so to speak to see if the 454 was adaquate for bear, you look that up to, anyway, the guy went on a hunting trip for Brownies. The finally got the chance and the man fired one shot broadside at the shoulder of a 8.5' brownie. The bear tuned toward them to charge but after 2 seconds fell to the ground. After 15 to 20 mins waiting they approached the bear and it was dead as a dornail and it was stated that the exit on the opposite side was about the size of a coffee can. Was there a 458 magnum rifle on it the whole time, YES, but the point was made, it is ABSOLUTLEY possible. There were no hard feelings ever intended here so ill be eagerly awaiting that info.


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## Chevyman

Savage260 said:


> chevy, do us all a favor and run a practical test with your vaunted hand cannon. Go into big bear country with your one round(since you claim that is all it will take for bear or intruders) and wait until you come face to face with a big nasty bruin. If you come back from the encounter(due to your "specific" and "specalized" military training) you can tell us "I told you so", if not.... well, you are 6'5" and 245lbs, you can just kick the bears a$$, so we won't have to worry about you, right??? Don't worry, you will be just fine with your one round and super cannon muzzle blast! To use your favorite phrase......"Trust Me."
> 
> You never did tell us what branch of the service you are in, and what your "special" training is.


I just opened a new topic and would like the input if you can do it without so much sarchasim and battery. Im almost afraid to even ask but you never know. The whole purpose of the discussion was is the 454 affective not nessesarily kill with one shot although i believe it has been shown possible to do so. The practical test has already been done by the way but ill let you look that up, you aren't going to take anything i say as usefull anyway. I believe eyewitness hunter accounts to be credible enough for the purposses of this forum. Lets leave it at this, ill give you the 454 Casull obviously is not the most powerfull handgun but we probably would agree it is better than having a 22 on your side, fair enough ? :beer:


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## Chevyman

mike landrich said:


> Chevyman said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> 
> I need to learn research. You don't know the meaning. Let me give you some ballistics info from Hornady. You can argue with them. I believe they know a little bit about what they are talking about. Here is the chart below for you moron. You will see that the 454 Casull has more knockdown energy at 100 yards than the 480 does at muzzle. You are probably one of those people that believes the larger the number and if it is slightly larger in diameter then it has to be more powerful. What a shallow mind. Ballistics don't lie. CorBon offers a 360 grain penetrator that out performs a 400 grain 480 and its not close. Those numbers aren't even on this chart. *You also made the comment that all you have to do is look at the size differense of the bulllet. I believe your comment was "noticable". Well your right except its not the 480 thats larger, its the 454.* Since your stupid here is a picture reference for you as well. That way you can argue with your own eyes.This will be the attatchment. As far as the comment about military training, all i meant by that was depending on what you do the military you learn how to maintain your mental faculties in extreme situations and not lose your cool so that you can still be effective. Of course the military doesn't train their soldiers in bear defense. Duh Huh. By you even inquiring about it shows what you mental capability really is. We already know you can't read or see so this info probably won't do you any good either but at least you can't say you don't have it. Now that you have the info this no longer makes you ignorant, now your just plain stupid and you know what Ron White says, "you just can't fix stupid". The picture of the bullet comparison is in the attatchment. The Hornady chart is below.
> 
> CARTRIDGE BULLET ITEM # BARREL
> LENGTH MUZZLE 50 yds 100 yds MUZZLE 50 yds 100 yds
> 44-40 Cowboy 205 gr. Cowboy 9075 7½" 725 689 655 239 216 195
> 44 Special 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9070 7½" 1000 935 882 400 349 311
> 44 Rem Mag 180 gr. JHP/XTP 9081 7½" 1550 1340 1173 960 717 550
> 44 Rem Mag 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9080 7½" 1500 1333 1196 999 789 635
> 44 Rem Mag 240 gr. JHP/XTP 9085 7½" 1350 1231 1134 971 807 685
> 44 Rem Mag 300 gr. JHP/XTP 9088 5" 1150 1084 1031 881 782 708
> 45 Auto 185 gr. JHP/XTP 9090 5" 970 910 860 386 340 304
> 45 Auto 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9112 5" 900 856 817 360 325 296
> 45 Auto+P 200 gr. TAP-FPD 91128 5" 1055 982 926 494 428 380
> 45 Auto+P 200 gr. JHP/XTP 9113 5" 1055 982 926 494 428 380
> 45 Auto+P 230 gr. JHP/XTP 9096 5" 950 908 872 461 421 385
> 45 Auto 230 gr. FMJ RN ENC 9097 5" 850 818 788 369 342 317
> 45 Auto+P 230 gr. TAP-FPD 90958 5" 950 908 872 461 421 388
> 45 Colt 255 gr. Cowboy 9115 4¾" 725 687 651 298 267 240
> 454 Casull 240 gr. XTP MAG 9148 7½" 1900 1678 1478 1923 1500 1163
> 454 Casull 300 gr. XTP MAG 9150 7½" 1650 1490 1348 1813 1480 1210
> 460 S&W 200 gr. SST 9152 83⁄
> ⁄8" 2200 1948 1715 2149 1685 1305
> 475 Linebaugh 400 gr. XTP MAG 9140 7½" 1300 1177 1084 1501 1231 1043
> 480 Ruger 325 gr. XTP MAG 9138 7½" 1350 1193 1078 1315 1026 839
> 480 Ruger 400 gr. XTP MAG 9144 7½" 1100 1027 971 1075 937 838
> 500 S&W 300 gr. EVOLUTION 9249 10" 2075 1885 1706 2868 2366 1939
> 500 S&W 350 gr. XTP MAG 9250 10" 1900 1656 1439 2805 2131 1610
> 500 S&W 500 gr. FP-XTP 9252 10" 1425 1281 1164 2254 1823 1505
> HORNADY, Accurate. Deadly. Dependable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All those words and yet you couldn't stay on topic. I said the 480 has a much larger bore. Bore is not bullet length, so your pic means crap. Read the words used and respond to them. If we were using the terms "cartridge length" or "OAL" you would be on subject. We weren't; therefore, you weren't. A "bore" is a measurement taken of a bullet (to make you understand I define bullet as "thingy that comes out of the barrel"). Your picture shows cartridges, of which the bullet is only one component. Who's stupid now? BTW I didn't correct your spelling, but I think you meant "you're stupid". And as for the "bear defense" question, no doubt the military doesn't train for it. Its sarcasm and was lost on the weak-minded. I bet Savage 260 got it, and yet you didn't.
> 
> As for the ballistics chart, all those bullets are jacketed and most are hollow points. Not effective grizzly bear medicine. Get similar info for hard cast bullets and see which performs better. To really make it interesting, get a chart showing muzzle energy of the heavier bullets, not muzzle velocity. Which bullet is a bigger bore and therefore inflicts more damage, since they do not mushroom? Hint, its not the 454?
> 
> As for your specialized military training, you now admit to "As far as the comment about military training, all i meant by that was depending on what you do the military you learn how to maintain your mental faculties in extreme situations and not lose your cool so that you can still be effective." Every job teaches that. I bet most loggers in British Columbia have more specialized training and experience than you will ever have. So your specialization was what again?
> 
> Maybe, you need to compensate and think you have the "biggest gun". So, just to make peace, I'll say it "Wow, its huge". Did I sound like your girl? I bet I did.
Click to expand...

OK i decided to do the hmework for you anyway and if you want to argue with these guys go for it, they are the experts not me. 
Reference this web page, and by the way this is the hard cast and hunting round caomparison you so wanted to know, and oh by the way there are 2 pages so be sure to read both especially the second page because this is where youwill find the 480 in last place with 17" of penetration in the test. The 454 Casull had 45" of penetration. Awhhhhh, so sorry for you. But i tried to tell you. Im guessing you won't believe the experts either but im pretty sure that Mr. Linebaugh is considered an expert. Boy would i like to see you argue with him. Heres your site. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _86704793/ :thumb:


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## mike landrich

Chevyman said:


> mike landrich said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chevyman said:
> 
> 
> 
> [
> OK i decided to do the hmework for you anyway and if you want to argue with these guys go for it, they are the experts not me.
> Reference this web page, and by the way this is the hard cast and hunting round caomparison you so wanted to know, and oh by the way there are 2 pages so be sure to read both especially the second page because this is where youwill find the 480 in last place with 17" of penetration in the test. The 454 Casull had 45" of penetration. Awhhhhh, so sorry for you. But i tried to tell you. Im guessing you won't believe the experts either but im pretty sure that Mr. Linebaugh is considered an expert. Boy would i like to see you argue with him. Heres your site. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _86704793/ :thumb:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Yep, you did good, almost. The 17" of penetration you mentioned was for a Hornady XTP bullet, a hollowpoint. The 454 was tested with a hard-cast. To make it fair, you'd need to test heaviest for caliber bullets from the same manufacturer with maximum loads.


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## Savage260

> I wasn't talking about your choice of weapons as much as the bravado.





> The .454,460,and 500S&W are all fine choices, but you have shown nothing to back up your claim that the .44 can't do the job. I believe that was supposed to be your point.


Again, I have no problem with the .454 as stated above. It is more powerful than the .44 Mag. You were popping off that the .44 Mag wasn't effective against bear, but it has been shown that it is. You were also popping off about how you can kill a bear,(or an intruder) with one shot, or scare it with your super duper hand cannon muzzle blast. I don't care for this kind of deep BS post, especially since you have nothing to back that claim up. It is possible for many cartridges to be "one shot killers" but most times only when luck plays a huge part. It isn't a "one shot each time every time killer" like you are suggesting.

I also don't like people bragging about having special skills and training when they really don't. You don't need to be superman to impress any one on here, in fact, most people(even if they won't say it) get pretty fed up with that kind of BS!

One big pet peeve of mine is people calling other people "stupid" and "moron" and crap like that when they can't spell words correctly or use proper punctuation and grammar. It isn't an attempt to win an arguement, it is just pointing out the fact that you are calling out a person's mental capability when you are sorely lacking in some areas yourself. IRONIC isn't it??? I know I shouldn't do it, but I grew up in a family of teachers and was corrected all the time. It is just some of my "specialized" training. :wink: I, by no means, am perfect when it comes to spelling and what not, but I don't try to tell some one else how stupid they are either.


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## mike landrich

Savage260 said:


> I wasn't talking about your choice of weapons as much as the bravado.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The .454,460,and 500S&W are all fine choices, but you have shown nothing to back up your claim that the .44 can't do the job. I believe that was supposed to be your point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I have no problem with the .454 as stated above. It is more powerful than the .44 Mag. You were popping off that the .44 Mag wasn't effective against bear, but it has been shown that it is. You were also popping off about how you can kill a bear,(or an intruder) with one shot, or scare it with your super duper hand cannon muzzle blast. I don't care for this kind of deep BS post, especially since you have nothing to back that claim up. It is possible for many cartridges to be "one shot killers" but most times only when luck plays a huge part. It isn't a "one shot each time every time killer" like you are suggesting.
> 
> I also don't like people bragging about having special skills and training when they really don't. You don't need to be superman to impress any one on here, in fact, most people(even if they won't say it) get pretty fed up with that kind of BS!
> 
> One big pet peeve of mine is people calling other people "stupid" and "moron" and crap like that when they can't spell words correctly or use proper punctuation and grammar. It isn't an attempt to win an arguement, it is just pointing out the fact that you are calling out a person's mental capability when you are sorely lacking in some areas yourself. IRONIC isn't it??? I know I shouldn't do it, but I grew up in a family of teachers and was corrected all the time. It is just some of my "specialized" training. :wink: I, by no means, am perfect when it comes to spelling and what not, but I don't try to tell some one else how stupid they are either.
Click to expand...

Well said. But there is no debating guys like that. He is the guy we all know and avoid.


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## huntin1

> It is more powerful than the .44 Mag.


Oh, come on, everybody knows the 44 mag is the most powerful handgun in the world and will blow your head clean off.

Here's the proof: (at about 2:00)






Other than injecting above humor, I'm staying out of this pie fight. I still have the opinion that a handgun,any handgun is only good for one thing, fighting your way to a rifle.

:beer:

huntin1


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## mike landrich

huntin1 said:


> Other than injecting above humor, I'm staying out of this pie fight. I still have the opinion that a handgun,any handgun is only good for one thing, fighting your way to a rifle.


Reminds me of one time I was hunting elk in Wyoming and had 2 encounters with Grizzlys in 12 hours. Nothing dramatic, but I had bears on the brain as I was half awake at 1 am. The wind blew the tent flap a little and just then the father-in-law cuts loose with the type of snore only an old guy can pull off. In my dream world I thought a bear was in the tent. As I fully came to, I had the 338 win mag in hand and was starting to work the bolt. I felt much better with that than I would have with any handgun.

For those who have not seen a Griz in the wild, here's a piece of information you won't believe until it happens to you. Bars at the zoo make bears look MUCH smaller. When you see one in the wild, it will appear much larger and nastier than any you have ever seen in captivity.


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## Lakota

Many of the Alaska Brown Bear-Grizzly Guides have given up on revolvers, ie .454 Casuall and now carry high capacity, stainless, pump 12 guage shotguns with slugs. Much easier to deal with in c lose quarters & crossing borders. Multiple 500 grain slugs anyone?


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## mike landrich

Lakota said:


> Many of the Alaska Brown Bear-Grizzly Guides have given up on revolvers, ie .454 Casuall and now carry high capacity, stainless, pump 12 guage shotguns with slugs. Much easier to deal with in c lose quarters & crossing borders. Multiple 500 grain slugs anyone?


Yep, as was said by someone smarter than me "Use the handgun to fight your way to a rifle", but there are times a handgun is all that is practical to carry. If you are fly fishing, a revolver in a chest holster is better than a long gun slung on your back. A Marlin 1895 Guide Gun in 444, 45-70 or 450 marlin would be potent medicine if you have a free hand to keep the gun readily available.


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