# for my friend, Bob...



## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Last night I watched a great special on PBS. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were being interviewed by a bunch of college kids. Each student would ask a question and then they would both answer the same question. They were great questions and their insight and outlook on things were really interesting. But anyway here is one for Bob. The question was, "What do you think about a flat tax?" Both responded quickly and without hesitation that they were adamantly apposed to a flat tax. They said the the current tax rates were already too flat. They both said that the rich have gotten a tremendous amount of tax breaks in the last few years and they are not paying their fair share of the tax burden on this country. Instead of going to a flat tax which would only make our tax struture even more unfair for moderate and low income people they would strongly favor a more progressive tax system where those that can afford to pay accept there fair share of the burden. This was a surprising answer from two of the richest and smartest people in the world. It was a great interview and they had a tremendous amount of wisdom to share with those students and the viewing audience. Some of you who think that a flat tax is such a fair tax vs progressive taxes must know more than Warren Buffet and Bill Gates because I sure thought what they said made sense.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

You are hopeless, I am and always have been against a flat tax.

Our current system started out as a flat tax, for what its worth.
Thats didn't work out too well did it??

If just once you would bother to read and actaully research and understand a topic it would be real nice.

It's no secret that I would like to hear something about tax reform. The current tax code in this country is killing us. No, those words aren't too strong. Our American economy is slowly collapsing under the burden of an onerous tax system that punishes the very activities our economy needs. In just the past few weeks we've heard several warnings and items of bad news.

DJ your buddy :wink: , Warren Buffet, a man who some would say knows a thing or two about finance and our economy, is warning that the biggest danger facing our financial well-being isn't the huge federal deficit or the price of oil. The biggest danger is our trade deficit. Recently the news arrived that our savings rate is at its lowest point since the great depression.

You want a reason? As for the trade deficit, blame our tax code. The simple and brutal fact of the matter is that there is no major economic power in the world that places the tax burden on its business and industry that the United States does. You do realize, don't you, that these corporate taxes are a simple fraud.  They're all a device to convince the American people that our wonderful elected officials have chosen to relieve us of a portion of our personal tax burden by transferring that burden to evil and greedy corporations.

Dj corporations have never ever paid one dime of taxes, not one dime.

Our pathetic inept system of government non-education sets up Americans to believe such nonsense. As for personal savings, the tax code punishes us there also. You have to pay taxes on all the money you save, and then you have to pay taxes on all the interest you earn! Wow! What an incentive! Besides, why save anyway? Could it be that Americans are saving less and less because they are embracing the idea that when politicians are so eager to provide with our every want and need in exchange for our votes, why save? Every year we see more and more ideas floated for government-paid this, that and the other thing .... what's the point?

Look at the list of issues. 
Trade deficit. Disappearing manufacturing jobs. Low savings rate. Tax reform is the answer to all of these problems.

Sure, I favor the FairTax( ITS NOT AFLAT TAX).

It is the only tax reform proposal I've seen that addresses so many of the issues we are dealing with. Our current tax code is one that was designed by and for the benefit of politicians and lobbyists. It punishes achievement and rewards laziness. *It punishes the voting blocks unimportant to politicians, and rewards voting blocks who keep them in office.*

Above all, the tax codes gives thousands of high-income Beltway lobbyists their fertile territory for exchanging campaign donations for changes in the tax code to benefit their clients.

So DJ if rich coniving Washington lobbyists are someone you identify with, someone you favor, then continue to support the current system, thats who benefits from your beloved PROGRESSIVE tax system.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Dj

google

K street lobbyists and tax reform.

read what they are all about.

then give it some thought.

Goodnight :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Instead of going to a flat tax which would only make our tax struture even more unfair for moderate and low income people they would strongly favor a more progressive tax system where those that can afford to pay accept there fair share of the burden.


Redistribution of wealth under these ideals is socialism. I don't know about any of you, but I wouldn't sleep that good at night if I figured out a way to use the government to rob my working neighbor and give it to me if I am to lazy to work for myself. That is all a progressive tax is. It means if my neighbor makes 250 thousand and I make 25 thousand he pays not only an equal percentage, but a higher percentage. If he pays 40 percent he pays 100 thousand. At 25 thousand if I paid any tax at all it would perhaps be ten percent or 25 hundred dollars. So he pays 100 thousand wile I pay 25 hundred. Some consider that fair, and how can it be. Our children would go to the same school, we would drive on the same roads, we would have all the same services from the local, state, and federal government. Oh, that's not right I would have more services. Can anyone keep a straight face and tell me this is fair. Let me assure you I am not one of these rich people, I am just an honest person that will not steal from others.

Rooster, a progressive tax is not fair it is robbery by government rather than gun point. It is highly pushed by loosers, so they can get their hands on money they didn't earn.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Redistribution of wealth


Now there is a term we need to get away from. Wealth is earned, not gotten by distribution so it cannot be redistributed. It is the devious ideas of socialism but I think larceny is a more appropriate word to what liberals and socialist want to do with income derived from hard work of others. :wink:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Sorry, guys but I will go with Buffet and Gates over Gohon, Plainsman and Bob!


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

K Street sounds like the snake in the garden of eden, I can give you power if you will eat of my fruit!


> But with vast power came, inevitably, arrogance and insularity. By the 1920s, Republican rule had degenerated into corruption and open larceny--and a government that, in the face of rapidly growing inequality and fantastic concentration of wealth and opportunity among the fortunate few.


Jeez, sounds just like Bush and his cronies.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

So satisfy my curiosity would you Rooster? With liberals in office how would that benefit you?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

> They both said that the rich have gotten a tremendous amount of tax breaks in the last few years and they are not paying their fair share of the tax burden on this country.


So did they give any indication that they themselves have refused to take the tax breaks that the Government allows? I mean, hey, the breaks are voluntary, they do not have to take them. If they think that the breaks are unfair they should refuse to take them, thus paying more tax.

huntin1


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

The Clinton's want everyone else to pay taxes but them! :******: 
Here's a good read:



> Sunday, Nov. 13, 2005 7:23 p.m. EST
> Peter Schweizer: Clintons Underpaid Taxes
> 
> Just last week, Bill Clinton decried the Bush tax cuts as "unethical" and "immoral," because they allowed wealthy folks like himself to avoid "paying their fair share."
> ...


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

DJ your take on K street is right on congradulations, keep reading as much as you can about them with two things in mind.

1) they support, have designed, and will fight to the death to protect the current tax system, which you think you support ( i don't think you would if you understood it)

2) they hate the "Fair Tax" becuase it severly limits their crooked desires to manipulate the tax code for their fat cat employers.

NOTE: the 'fair tax" is progressive and removes all tax responsibility from the truly poor. I am actaully surprised you wouldn't support that.

I believe your rejection is based more on my support of it than the actaul plan.

The "fair Tax" is a non partisan attempt to get taxation out of the hands of the crooks that curentl control it. It may surprise you that it may actaully have a better chance to get passed by the Democrats, and if it does that will be a huge tactical advantage for the Dems and probably give them another 40 years in power.

So my friend try to read up on the topic as a liberal if your a true liberal and not a partisan you will be surprised at what it actaully says.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Seems like the more I read about the "Fair Tax" the more I think it has merit. Thanks, Bob!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Thanks,
I appreciate you giving it some thought, its not republican and neither am I.
I wish everyone would read about it and consider it.

None of them are perfect buts its the best idea I've studied about taxes.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Another thing you must understand with Buffet and Gates is that they have a negative sloping utility function when it comes to money. Each additional dollar of earnings gives them less and less enjoyment. Anything they wish to have can be theirs.

The logical conclusion of all of this is that at some point they thought to themselves, "I don't care that much about this money. I should give it to those who need it more than I do." They tend to feel that everyone else who has as much money as they do should feel the same way. But the caveat to all of this is that we all have different utility functions. Take two individuals for example. They both make the same amount of money. One gives their money to a charity and one saves it and tries to make more.

Those two (Buffet and Gates) would probably be happy to give their money to the government if they thought it would be used to do the greatest good. However we all know how the government uses its money.

Bobm is correct in stating that our biggest threat to prosperity is not our tax system it is the willful handing over assets to other countries.

The middle class is its own worst enemy and has caused its own problems by living beyond their means. Most people my age (I'm 26) think that having an expensive car means you have started building "assets".

I've found most often that the people who act like they have lots of money usually don't.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Again my friend Gandergrinder you are wise beyond your years :beer:

If Ken W gets to be president I think you could be the next Alan Greenspan, possibly even better. :beer:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

The choice between Ken W and George W is a no brainer!! The choice between Alan Greenspan and Gandergrinder well....that is going to take a little more thought!


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Go with Greenspan. I would like to have a tenth of his knowledge.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Humility is one of your virtues!


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