# Lowering Legal Limit on Hens



## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Besides mallards, there really aren't any restrictions on hens. On all other species you can shoot a full limit of hens. What would you think about a combined hen limit? Say with a six duck limit you could only have two combined hens. I could see a problem with some species (gadwalls, teal) but I think you could work it out. What do you guys think?


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## bear05 (Nov 4, 2004)

I think that is one of the best ideas that i have heard on here. Good call Jones.

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GIT ER' DUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN


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## mallardhunter (May 15, 2004)

I would have to agree, they sould do that for wood ducks and other ducks.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

First, are duck populations being depleted to the point that it is necessary and second if they are being depleted is the reason they are decreasing because there are not enough hens or are there other reasons that need more attention such as habitat? What is the biology behind your proposal and what kind of statistical documentation do you have to back up your logic? Setting limits is a complex business. One comment I would like to make is that very few hunters can ID different species of ducks and to have to ID hens/drakes for other than mallards and a few other species is asking more than most hunters can handle especially one half hour before sunrise. Just my opinion!


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## purepower (Sep 11, 2004)

that would be great, but in my opinion i still say all legal hen limits should be 0, except for mallards leave them at 1 because even if ur not trying you always get that ocasional one that falls  ...


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Good idea Matt, like you say though some birds will be a real treat to pick out. Add a lot of divers to the list of hard I.D's. If the fine went to PLOTS or another productive cause It wouldn't be so bad but I know I'll be paying. :roll:


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

In the 2004 waterfowl regulations put out by the Nebraska fish and game said that the Central Flyway is proposing a "Hunters Choice Bag Limit for 2005". The whole concept of this system would be to use an aggregate bag limit category of multiple duck species, with two or more categories of ducks based on population status. The proposed concept has three key elements. 1) an aggregate category. 2) inclusion of the hen mallard in the aggregate, and 3) the total duck bag limit would be the same as the drake mallard limit.
The aggregate category means that only one of the species listed in the aggregate group could be taken in the daily bag limit. For example, if pintails, canvasbacks, and the hen mallards are listed in the aggregate group, a hunter shooting a pintail then could not shoot a canvasback or hen mallard the rest of the day. Thus harvast of all species in this aggregate group would be reduced.
I also think legal shooting time sould be pushed back to sun up, not 30 minutes before. This extra light would help hunters tell what sex of duck they are about to shoot.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

I can see where something like this might be difficult to implement but I don't think it'd be that hard for guys to do this. You'd still be allowed a couple "mistake" hens in low shooting light and after that you have to be careful pulling the trigger. If they can do it on mallards I don't see why they can't place restrictions on hens of other species.


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## purepower (Sep 11, 2004)

:withstupid:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Keep the regulations as they are..............that way none of you waterfowlers will get discouraged and start taking my upland bird hunting spots!!!

OK, seriously, it does sound like a good idea to me, but I would like to know the biological ramifications. You never know, it could be a bad thing if there were too many hens!?!?!??!


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> I also think legal shooting time sould be pushed back to sun up, not 30 minutes before. This extra light would help hunters tell what sex of duck they are about to shoot.


Jeez cripes storm, we only get the half hour before just to hopefully get a crack or two the way it is. Hell if this happens I know I'll be in the swamp with conibears and long springs running a trap line. I hope this is only a Nodak proposal. :lol:


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## BIG BEN (Jan 4, 2004)

Purepower- you couldn't just set a zero hen limit on everything exept mallards. Accidently shooting hens happens with every species.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Personally I think they should lower the limit of hen pheasants? :withstupid:

It all about IDENTIFICATION!
I can't believe how many people cannot identify birds, but still have the nerve to open fire!
Learn wing patterns and colors
Learn the color of feet, learn what bills look like.
It's really not that hard, unless it's early season, even then there are ways to tell!


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## BIG BEN (Jan 4, 2004)

:withstupid: I can identify every bird i see, what i mean is on windy days hunting for divers, you will lead the lead drake four feet and kill the end bird, this just isn't me, almost every hunter who's shot at divers has expierenced this. ( at least the ones i've talked too ). I wasn't reffering to singles and doubles, i'm talking about flocks. Alot of people flock shoot which can only lead to killing more hens. I should've made it more clear what i was talking about. Sorry :lol:


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

BB, I wasn't trying to chasitze you or anyone with my comment! I hunt with alot of people from this website and they are all veterans when it comes to hunting. I find it ironic when I here them say I can't tell what I am shooting at!


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Storm, isn't that essentially the same system SD had some years back - where you got 100 points per day and different stuff had different points? I believe one hen mallard was worth 100. Better not shoot her when you're sitting at 95. Maybe practical for the southern states or late in the year here - almost impossible here based upon our recent start dates
and really tough on the kids. Maybe during restricted seasons where the starting date is 2-3 weeks later. Bet there'd be a lot of wanton waste.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Have been reading a lot on this issue and have a call into Mr. Johnson with the G&F. We would be exempt from any changes in bag limits for the next few years under this proposal, which means that even if a restrictive limit was deemed the choice we would still get our 5 duck limit.

When this was brought up at the G&F meetings last spring it sounded good as it would eliminate the need to end Pins and Cans early. However I think it gets a little complicated if they also include Scaup into the mixture.

Need to do a little more research on this. Hope to have something from the G&F soon to post up!


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

If you don't want to shoot hens then don't shoot them but I think the research will show that shooting hens is only a small part of the overall equation. Some people seem to want to regulate anything and everything. Nothing the matter with self regulation if you think we need more regulation but sorry I don't see the logic in this one. I think what we have is working very well and the rest I will leave to the experts. Show me the science behind your proposal and I may feel different!


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I understand your logic DJRooster with the whole scientific argument. However as a comparison a large percentage of the hen pheasants aren't going to make it through the winter, but our bag limits don't allow us to shoot hen pheasants. The reason, no matter how good or bad your habitat conditions are dead hens don't lay eggs.

I know alot of guys who would be much more careful if they knew they could only shoot 1 hen. You know you have to be really careful but you can still make one mistake.

I have shot hens but I try my best at all times to not shoot any. People have to get it into their heads that because you can shoot doesn't mean you should.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Pheasant hunting and duck hunting is a poor analogy because we are only talking about one species and when so when a pheasant gets up it is either yes or no. If you are deer hunting it is either buck or doe, one species around here. Very simple and allthough mistakes can be made it is easy for the beginner or the vet. Duck hens with multiple species certainly can work but for the average hunter or beginner it will be complicate the issue considerably and I don't think that it will accomplish what you desire. Look at mallard populations. Most people try not to shoot hens but it does not have a major impact on the populations if a few "suzy's" get shot. Habitat is the whole key to the equation. It does no good to have too many hens if the habitat is not there to sustain the population. I will not shoot a hen mallard except by accident and quite frankly I don't shoot any other duck species. They can regulate it if they want but I don't see the reasoning behind it. I understand your logic but do not agree with it. Sure enjoy the discussion. Oh, by the way, I have taken Ornithology classes and my bird ID is better than average. Went on a field trip to Sand Lake one spring and saw a flock of 250,000 snow geese in one flock. The only reason we knew it was 250,000 geese is that we were with the Refuge manager and that is what he said there were so "we believe." What a great natural phenom! You talk about birds blackening out the sky! That is about as close as you could come. A front was coming in so it would take about a half hour for them all too settle and then as the wind shifted the whole flock would simultaneously lift and then repeat the procedure again. The noise was astonishing! We watched for about 3 to 4 hours as this was repeated throughout the afternoon. It is something I will never forget. Nature at her best. A few years ago Teawauken(sp) had 750,000 but I did not get over to see it. Thanks again.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Maverick said:


> BB, I wasn't trying to chasitze you or anyone with my comment! I hunt with alot of people from this website and they are all veterans when it comes to hunting. I find it ironic when I here them say I can't tell what I am shooting at!


That was one of the problems with the point system I thought? That you could go over the hundred points. So if you were sitting at 95 it'd be legal to shoot a mallard hen and go over. Which caused a lot of people to shoot first and then pick off the pile, so to speak.

I saw this on an old video where a Grits Grisham does just that. Obviously I wasn't around for the 'point days' so you Old Timers will have to inform me.


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## Anas Strepera (Nov 10, 2004)

I'd like to see the limits lowered on some species. They lowered scaup to a 3 bird limit to protect them but all 3 can be hens. To me this doesn't make any sense. Why not have it at 1, giving you one mistake. I agree that things can tricky at times and like others have said flock shooting happens. I ran into two hunters with their 6 bird limit on bills and 5 were hens. Give me a break! There's no way you had 5 accident hens. :roll:

Wood ducks they should lower it to 1 hen. There's no reason you need to shoot 2 and wood ducks get their plumage very early so that's no an excuse. MN tries to protect their home grown ducks and a lot of those ducks are wood ducks so I can't understand why they don't lower the limit on hens. It'll just mean more hens in trees and nesting boxes every year producing more ducks. :run:


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I find it hard to believe that you can tell the difference between a hen gadwall and a drake gadwall most of the time. :huh:


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## Anas Strepera (Nov 10, 2004)

Matt Jones said:


> I could see a problem with some species (gadwalls, teal) but I think you could work it out. What do you guys think?


I think he was implying there was some species that it would not work for, gadwalls being on of them.

Early on it's very tough since they look identical but once they get the drakes get their plumage I can tell. :run:


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I wasn't replying to Matt with that comment. But thanks, Anas.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Matt, I don't remember the SD details and never hunted under it, but it would be more logical if 100 was a max, not a point that could be crossed, but only once. Otherwise, you could end the day with the same bag content and be legal in one case and not in the other: 25 + 25 + 25 + 100 = legal vs. 100 + 25 + 25 + 25 = illegal. No need for logic to rule the day, though, so maybe it was that way, and I suppose if it was, it would have still caused a hunter to be careful until the end of the day and penalized him/her at any point along the way for a goof - i.e. pack 'er up. If it was as you say, I'll bet a pretty large percentage of hen mallards bagged were "parked" for later retrieval as aopposed to being the show stoppers as intended.


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## BIG BEN (Jan 4, 2004)

Mallard populations are up in evry state exept two. Minnesota and a southern state i will get back with the other as i find it.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

djleye said:


> I find it hard to believe that you can tell the difference between a hen gadwall and a drake gadwall most of the time. :huh:


I know that it is hard for me to differentiate on these as well. That is why I stick to pheasants!


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## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

Matt,

I think your heart is in the right place, but there are two words that just keep popping up in my head that prevent me from totally jumping on board with you, and that's wanton waste. I feel it is already a big enough problem, and with the lack of enforcement capabilities in ND, you and I both know what many folks would do.

Then again, I guess it would serve a dual purpose of forcing people to educate themselves a little more, and they could still shoot at first light if they wanted to, give them maybe two hens total. I am a strong supporter of lowering the limits overall, 3-4 mallards and 4-5 ducks should be enough if you ask me, especially with the number of geese in the state. If I go out and shoot 3 honks and 3 greenheads in a morning, that's good enough for me to go home, and I suspect you agree.


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## ARMallardSlayer (Jan 8, 2005)

Won't ever happen..........but you can enforce this rules upon yourself and your hunting buddies....every little bit will help in the long run.

Maybe a better idea is that everyone throw away those robo ducks and hunt smarter.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

I shoot what comes into my spread whether its a hen or a drake. If you asked me what I would rather take, I would say the drake. If its a lone hen, I'm takin her down. If there is a drake in the bunch, I'll take the drake. We have limits on hens for a reason, and that limit is two in my state for mallards, and I don't go over my limit. I don't see anything wrong in it as long as I don't go over my limit. If you want to start blaming the decrease in population on shooting hens, fine, thats your opinion, but if you ask me, we should ban spinning wing decoys before we should stop shooting hens, I forget where I read it, heck, it may have been on this site, but the wing flashes attract juvenile mallards and we are killing too many and that is why they are banning them in arkansas. I'm sure there was more to the story, but that is all I remember. Ban the robos, not the hens! :beer:


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

dlip said:


> We have limits on hens for a reason, and that limit is two in my state for mallards, and I don't go over my limit.


With the exception of mallards, we don't have limits on hens. No one is saying to make it illegal to shoot hens. I just think it would make sense to have a combined hen limit, or at the very least restrictions on hens of species that are in trouble.


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## the_duckinator (Jan 9, 2005)

The biggest problem that results in decreased duck counts is lack of habitat. Every year more and more duck nesting sites are drained and paved over. If our president would work harder on conservation instead of paving and drilling everything for oil we would have better duck counts. No matter how many hens there are, if you don't have enough habitat the duck counts will be down. More habitat=more ducks. We need to push the president to help the environment instead of destroying it.
Also, no matter how good you are at IDing ducks, when a dozen small, dark, fast flying ducks buzz your spread at first light, you're bound to confuse a hen with a drake at least once. Early season is the same, they all look alike until they are in your hand, when you can look at the wings or subtle telltale signs on the bird. If you think that no one should shoot hens, don't shoot hens, just because the government doesn't make you only shoot drakes doesn't mean you have to shoot hens.


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## Chris Schulz (Sep 7, 2004)

well i guess i dont really now that stats on Drakes versus hens but shouldnt it be just like deer hunting and keep both male and female ducks in check? i would like to know some statistics on this issue.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Comparing ducks to deer is comparing apples to oranges. We don't want to keep duck populations in check, we're trying to increase them not lower them. Lots of species are already at historic lows. Duck populations as a whole are somewhat down. Deer are abundant and at historic highs; we want to see a lower population on them.


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## grnhd (Jun 21, 2003)

I think what Matt is suggesting is something like this...
6 gadwall- 2 hens
6 ringnecks-3 hens
6 shoveler-3 hens
3 bluebill-1 hen
Or something to that affect.I'm all for it.It would still allow for mistake ducks,but not let people kill 6 hens of any species.
As a interesting side note...I remember when they first cut the limit on 'bills down to 3 that I read in a DU mag that the feds KNEW that cutting the limit would have no effect on the population.It seems that they were right as the population has still decreased since cutting the limit on them.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Carefull... A "limit" is only a small part of an overall management plan because most people on most days they are in the field do not get a "limit." So in reality, limits come in to play in only a small percentage of the times that people actually go out hunting or fishing. Once a person reaches the possesion limit again limits should not come into play. There are so many other factors that help to establish populations and many times cutting the limit is not necessarily going to have the affect that some people desire. As long as populations are healthy and the habitat is there it is probably not necessary. Let people enjoy the resource and the great outdoors.


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## Quackkills9 (Oct 25, 2004)

not to start a arguement here: I dont have a problem with shooting hens or drakes, I'm always happy to get a Drake but even happy to bag a bird. What about Geese, I cant tell which ones are females/males, so maybe i have bagged more females than males? maybe 75% of the 28 geese i shot last fall were females? so what is the difference by shooting more female geese and not shooting Hen ducks? Lowering the Hen limit might help but I dont see a problem with todays limits. I cant really tell which ones are drakes until they have some color on them. but the problem is that i cant identify which ones are hens or drakes 1/2 hour before sunrise and no im not gonna let them fly by because the hunting is not good after sun up (for me, but for some of you, the hunting might be good until 10 am or so), so i am going to take my chances to bag them then do some grouse hunting after duck huntin'.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

So how many hen mallards do you shoot before sun-up? Just wondering.


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## Quackkills9 (Oct 25, 2004)

Mallards, ah only shot like 5 last fall and only 2 were drakes.. all before sun up. others were teals,gadwalls.. and couple woodies during jump shoot, all drakes for woodies. Not very many mallards where i hunt.


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## PJ (Oct 1, 2002)

schulzy1986 said:


> well i guess i dont really now that stats on Drakes versus hens but shouldnt it be just like deer hunting and keep both male and female ducks in check? i would like to know some statistics on this issue.


Here's a stat for ya, when was the last time a you hit a duck with your truck and totalled it?

Here's another, there is more deer today then when Columbus discovered America and just a fraction of the ducks.


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## PJ (Oct 1, 2002)

I think they should raise the limit on hen snow geese. Or at least show me some stats on it. :roll:


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Mallards 1hen per day 2 in posession Thats about as far as you can go with the hen restrictions. To many hunters dont have the skills to tell the difference. The wardens would have a hayday.


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## Chris Schulz (Sep 7, 2004)

dont we need drakes just like we need hens? Drakes are just as important as hens right but every try's to shoot a limit of greenheads or any other drake duck. whats the ratio of drake to hens on greeheads and other ducks?


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## Shoot2Kill (Sep 1, 2004)

The bottom line is simple, hens lay eggs and drakes don't! NOT shooting hens is like waxing an old car...may not help but it sure as he** ain't gonna hurt. 
We've all shot hens but I try and lay off of 'em. I'll take the drake every time but if its a lone hen....well, it depends on how my day is going.


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## Anas Strepera (Nov 10, 2004)

schulzy1986 said:


> dont we need drakes just like we need hens? Drakes are just as important as hens right but every try's to shoot a limit of greenheads or any other drake duck. whats the ratio of drake to hens on greeheads and other ducks?


You are dead wrong. Here's a lesson for you. One drake will impregnate many hens. A drake mallard would probably hump a basketball if you gave him the chance. So you could theoretically have less drakes than hens in the population and still have all the hens find a mate.

The other thing is this, there are a lot less hens than drakes. This is due to many reasons. For one, hens are a lot more susceptable to predation. Who lays the eggs and sits on a nest for weeks? The hen does and she is at high risk of getting killed while she does it. Meanwhile the drakes take off to molt somewhere and are sitting pretty. The hen does all the work for production, the drakes does nothing after copulation. So which one do you think is more important?

In some species of ducks the drake to hen ratio is as high as 2 to 1. So the answer is simple shculzy, SHOOT DRAKES!

:run:


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## Chris Schulz (Sep 7, 2004)

thanks for answering my question!


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## wtrfwlr (Sep 29, 2004)

Shoot2Kill said:


> The bottom line is simple, hens lay eggs and drakes don't! NOT shooting hens is like waxing an old car...may not help but it sure as he** ain't gonna hurt.
> We've all shot hens but I try and lay off of 'em. I'll take the drake every time but if its a lone hen....well, it depends on how my day is going.


That's kind of hypocritical, when you talk about don't shoot hens, don't shoot hens, but if a single hen flies in the dekes it depends on my day?? Come on guys the mallard is the most abundant species of ducks. Lets worry about the pintail and woodies, etc...


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## goose_slayer (Jan 31, 2004)

Shoot2Kill, think of it this way u say the hens lay the eggs and the drakes dont , but with less drakes , u wont have as many of the drakes to breed all the hens not left to themselves to lay the eggs.


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## Alamosa (Mar 25, 2005)

Not a bad idea.

I believe duck numbers are down because of loss of habitat and that hunting has only a minimal overall effect ...

... but a hen can produce a dozen or so ducks a year, and that's hard to ignore.


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## STINGER (Apr 2, 2005)

I'm not a big fan of imposing further restrictions upon myself ............... my only request is that you eat what you shoot ..............


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