# Bush is not always viewed as his detractors think.



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I see this morning at 7:00 am Time magazine named President Bush as person of the year. As often as his detractors call him ineffectual this move by Time magazine should dispel that myth. It will be interesting to read the text they provide within their publication. In the past they have named people I didn't agree with, but they name these people because they are influencing our society. It isn't a popularity contest. If that influence is beneficial or not is the stuff of debate. The truth remains however that Bush is not the mental midget that the liberal elitist always try portray conservatives as. So let the "my truth your truth" psycho babble begin.

"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"I see this morning at 7:00 am Time magazine named President Bush as person of the year. "

This is a testament to how few significant people we have had this year.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

I would have to say to Bush deserves the title. He received the most votes of any U.S. president ever during this past election. He had to over come a very Liberal biased media who was trying harder than anything to get John Kerry elected. Like Bush or not, but he is a man that does what he says he is going to do. This quality is hard to find in most people, but especially in politicians. If Iraq becomes a lasting democracy, Bush will be hailed as one of the greatest presidents ever. Something has to change in the middle east, countries can't continue to hate each other and kill innocent women and children. President Bush has taken a stand and is really trying to help the mid-east process.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Storm said:


> I would have to say to Bush deserves the title. He received the most votes of any U.S. president ever during this past election. He had to over come a very Liberal biased media who was trying harder than anything to get John Kerry elected. Like Bush or not, but he is a man that does what he says he is going to do. This quality is hard to find in most people, but especially in politicians. If Iraq becomes a lasting democracy, Bush will be hailed as one of the greatest presidents ever. Something has to change in the middle east, countries can't continue to hate each other and kill innocent women and children. President Bush has taken a stand and is really trying to help the mid-east process.


Him recieving the most votes ever is a demonstration of a growing population. He also won by one of the smallest margins. The next presidential election will have the winner recieving more votes as well.

"He had to over come a very Liberal biased media who was trying harder than anything to get John Kerry elected. "

What a joke most of the media is owned by very staunch republicans and it is shown in their reporting. It doesn't matter how many times or how fast you can say liberal media, it doesn't make it true.

"Like Bush or not, but he is a man that does what he says he is going to do."

He does what he says he will do, but it is a day late and a dollar short.

"If Iraq becomes a lasting democracy, Bush will be hailed as one of the greatest presidents ever. "

Which would be a sad reminder of how quickly people forget our other presidents, and how few people study history.

"Something has to change in the middle east, countries can't continue to hate each other and kill innocent women and children. "

You mean like we are doing in iraq? We sure do hate them and the innocent body count is running about 15,000 now.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I agree storm, it's hard for some people to realize because they have not observed presidents and foreign affairs for 30 to 40 years. One must rely on many years of experience and good judgment to know how much Bush has really accomplished.

I think that his biggest achievement was simply getting elected. The falsified National Guard documents are only one example of the liberal media bias. They were relentless in their attack on Bush. I think a few years ago when asked to rate themselves as liberal or conservative 98% of the media considered themselves liberal.

I think people voted for Bush because they trust a man that does what he says. He has followed through in Iraq, and I am confident that no matter how much the media cries, and how much Europe and the UN whine the elections will be on time. They don't want elections yet, because they want Bush to fail. Lucky for us the liberals keep underestimating him. They also don't understand that his values are the same as the majority of Americans.

As tough as it looks in Iraq if anybody can get it done Bush will. Even while the chicken little crowd cries the sky is falling. I'm sure when the elections do occur successfully they will be disappointed. They must then look for a new club to swing at Bush.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

"You mean like we are doing in iraq? We sure do hate them and the innocent body count is running about 15,000 now."

--Thats realy interesting...considering that if Osama Bin Laden himself claiemd to be inocent of all blood the other muslims would believe him.

I find that number a little hard to believe. a few acccidental deaths perhaps. Such is the Nature of war. But for our soldiers to gun down 15,000 inocent women and children, i think not.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

mr.trooper said:


> "You mean like we are doing in iraq? We sure do hate them and the innocent body count is running about 15,000 now."
> 
> --Thats realy interesting...considering that if Osama Bin Laden himself claiemd to be inocent of all blood the other muslims would believe him.
> 
> I find that number a little hard to believe. a few acccidental deaths perhaps. Such is the Nature of war. But for our soldiers to gun down 15,000 inocent women and children, i think not.


http://www.iraqbodycount.net/

I took the middle of the road figure.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

The reason I did not vote for Bush was because I truly believed he would carry out what he said and I did not agree with the direction he stated he intended to take the country. Do I trust him to carry out his campaign promises? Absolutely. Do I trust him to stay the course in Iraq? Absolutely. Do I agree he is moving the wrong direction? Absolutely. Do I disagree with many of his policies? Absolutely.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Militant_Tiger said:


> kill innocent women and children. "
> 
> You mean like we are doing in iraq? We sure do hate them and the innocent body count is running about 15,000 now.


MT I get the feeling here that you are saying we have killed those innocent Iraq people. I went to the site you list in a later post. They also list who, and how these innocent people died. They list iraq police killed. We don't shoot Iraq police, the terrorists (oh, excuse me, insurgents) do. They list many of the causes, mostly car bombs, and suicide bombers. That is not out method of operation either.

These deaths are not on our heads. I suppose by some convoluted logic some liberal could say "oh, but if we were not there they wouldn't be fighting and killing each other". These people have been fighting and killing each other for more than a thousand years. So soon we forget the slaughtered by the hand of Sadam.

The site you listed is all to common. America is the vilan and all other nations simply react to our world conquest. It's not that many years ago these people would be looking at charges of treason.


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## pointer99 (Jan 16, 2004)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Storm said:
> 
> 
> > What a joke most of the media is owned by very staunch republicans and it is shown in their reporting. It doesn't matter how many times or how fast you can say liberal media, it doesn't make it true.


one again you are confused........i do not know how the ownership of the big three stacks up but rather, jennings and brokejaw were all liberals and it shows in there reporting. rather could not contain his seething contempt for bush. backfired on his liberal azz too. hehehe.

soooooooooo weedhopper once again your closed midness has blinded you to the facts.

remember weedhopper in your quest for enlightenment............until you can walk on sand without leaving a track you are not ready to leave.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

" comprehensive public database of media-reported civilian deaths in Iraq resulting directly from military action by the USA and its allies."

As to the car bombs, I have sent an inquiry to the founders of the site. Even if these did not count, all of the others add up. The deaths of iraqi police can probably be attributed to accidental shootings, thinking that they were the enemy.

"These people have been fighting and killing each other for more than a thousand years. So soon we forget the slaughtered by the hand of Sadam. "

And you think that because the great eagle swept the evil out of Iraq (like so many nations before) that the people will stop waring and become productive and upstanding citizens? Man thats a little far fetched.

"It's not that many years ago these people would be looking at charges of treason"

It wasn't too many years ago that people were held at trial and were accused of being communists, thank God that times have changed.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT

Nice try MT, but I don't think anyone misunderstands that bad. You talked about the 15,000 dead, and I said I think they were killed mostly by their own people. To back that up I mentioned that they have been killing each other for thousands of years. Once Moslem group against another. I mentioned Sadam because he is the most recent, and it doesn't take much memory to get back to that.

No, I don't think they will stop warring, not with each other anyway. After we are finished I think like Libya more nations will think twice before they screw with us again. My attitude is if they want to leave us alone I wish them all the best. Whatever they do that does not harm us or threaten the peace of the region is their own business. Start acting up where they pose a threat to us or our allies and I would make an example of them.

It might be popular among radical liberals to think Europe is wonderful and the United States is a big bad bully, but thank god the mainstream moderates do not think that way. I would guess that the people that believe we have killed 15,000 innocent women and children would be the far left 10% or less.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"Nice try MT, but I don't think anyone misunderstands that bad. "

I tend to think they do. The statement says deaths directly related to the states, this doesn't mean its a game of telephone where they were shot by an insurgent because we were there.

"After we are finished I think like Libya more nations will think twice before they screw with us again."

So what you are saying is that instead of going after the people responsible for 9/11, we attacked a nation close to it to make an example?

"Whatever they do that does not harm us or threaten the peace of the region is their own business. Start acting up where they pose a threat to us or our allies and I would make an example of them. "

Doesn't that go directly against your reasoning as to why we attacked Iraq? Their oppression in no way affected us nor our allies.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Well that got way off subject again. I will make a finale comment about Iraq, then I am done with changing the subject to continue the argument. I'm not interested in bickering.

I think the Mid East is a powder keg. They were no menace when they threw stones and clubbed each other, but in the nuclear age every civilized nation on earth is endangered. The only thing that will contain this problem is a strong military presence. Any military presence, so it might as well be us. I think we are more objective than any other nation on earth. I will put my trust in the good old USA to do the right thing by everyone involved.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I got this in response from Iraqi Body Count

"We count all deaths from war/occupation related violence. When you attack
someplace, some people there will resist your attack. Both their and your
violence will produce "collateral damage". "Fault" may lie with many
parties in any given case, but all such cases are collectively the fault of
those who chose to break the peace and start an attack, as they made the
choice to sacrifice, for the supposed greater good of whatever objectives
they thought would be achieved, any persons that would be killed both in
their own direct violence, and the counter-violence that their own would
naturally produce. This doesn't erase whatever fault a car bomber may have
in a given incident, but likewise the fault of a car bomber does not erase
the fault of those who chose to start violence and let the "collateral
damage" be damned. Also, in the case of occupation, the occupying force has
an obligation to protect civilians from violence, that of others as well as
their own. All such cases are also clearly cases where the occupying force
has not lived up to these obligations, and which is of course also "fault".

As for the persons you're speaking to, perhaps you should ask them how many
deaths were caused by car bombs in Iraq in 2002. The difference between
that number and the number occurring in 2004 is "our" fault.

Josh D.
IBC"


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## the_rookie (Nov 22, 2004)

the media is very liberal because its in there best intrest... since most of the media is liberal all conservitist media is a minority and since most of the people watch liberal news its what THEY want u to see like when a bunch of peopel dye in iraq because of bombers people say its bushs fault but when bill clinton has an affair they thing mostly nothing of it its bullsh-t


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