# Election fraud



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Looks like a Canadian company was involved with the fraud in our election. Example: In a strongly republican county of Michigan the vote come in two to one for Biden. An inspection revealed that a Canadian company that produced the computer program for the vote had made a mistake. Mistake my ***. It turns out the real vote was two to one for Trump, and the same program was used in much of the country. 
In Nevada the law requires that a person be a resident for 30 days prior to the election. Currently it appears that many of the votes were by non residents. 
Chuck has posted many other examples of fraud. If they catch these people it should be life in prison for endangering our country. This is nothing less than treason.

Edit: Most votes on election day were for Trump. In Arizona machines started counting votes as "over votes" and eliminated them. They were never looked at by a vote observer.

Attorney Sidney Powell found a sack of 450,000 votes all for Biden. Not one Trump vote. If you believe this is legitimate I have swamp land for sale.

This was not simply democrats taking advantage of mail in votes. This isn't a right wing conspiracy theory. This was a real conspiracy. The conspiracy isn't only to make Biden president it's to turn America socialist perhaps full fledged communist.

Currently on TV 47 counties in Michigan used the software that was rigged for Biden. It was also rigged to dishonestly take the senate.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> 450,000 Votes With Single Entry?
> 
> 450,000 votes with ALL for Biden/Harris and no other entries made.
> ZERO ballots marked with Trump/Pence with no other entries made.
> ...


This is an attack coming from a foreign entity. Make them suffer. We need a new election.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/202 ... cerns.html

This article states that an Oregon Eleciton director was fired for just pointing out that the system they use has security risks. WHY WOULD SOMEONE GET FIRED FOR THIS...

Again this isn't about Dem's vs Republicans.... this is about the integrity of our election process.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is a Whistle Blowers complaint from Michigan....

Again not saying that these were not absentee ballots or the possibility of them... but just seems fishy when not a single vote was for another person.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

There are allegations of ballot harvesting at Nursing homes in PA....

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... -residents

Again not saying it happened... but there are allegations that need to be looked into. Funny how they have strict rules on who and how you can visit yet this could possibly happen???? oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The only reason why I am showing this is that there is fraud out there. Along with looking at the "Mail in ballot" thread. It shows fraud is out there with our election process.

Again do I think that there is enough to over turn Biden vs Trump.... no. But this should show you that we as a society need to look at things and make adjustments so this doesn't happen again and again.

We need to watch Big Tech and make sure they allow everyone to have a voice... if not they need to be classified as a different entity and taxed, litigated as such, etc. They don't get the protections they have now.

We need to make sure people don't "ballot harvest".

We need to make sure people don't surpress voters with intimidation

we need to make sure everyone has access to watching polls and ballots counted

etc.

The one thing that I read and will be very interesting in PA. Is that the State Supreme court ruled and said "ballots can be counted after a certain date".... COURTS DONT MAKE OR CHANGE LAWS.... they inturpert them. State Legislature makes or changes laws. in PA they didn't do that. So honestly this could get interesting.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

This has turned into a real **** show... I've about had it too...


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

I propose a televised duel....back to back, take ten paces, turn and fire...Vegas can work the odds...half the money to charity... 

With luck when the smoke clears you have a tie...and two less politicians.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://twitter.com/SteveGuest/status/1 ... 9136125956

Here is something in NV....



> I propose a televised duel....back to back, take ten paces, turn and fire...Vegas can work the odds...half the money to charity...
> 
> With luck when the smoke clears you have a tie...and two less politicians.


This is very accurate.... :beer: :thumb:

Hope i don't have black suburbans at my door tonight... lol


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

In 2016 Hillary with the Russians messed with out election. This year Canada through Dominion is messing with our election. Their program has more than one problem and every time a problem comes to light it has been against president Trump. Statistically its very improbable that this is an accident. It dropped Trump votes, and it switched Trump votes to Biden. Something like 2.5 million votes.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

So what's the scoop here. Some say the voting machines werre made in China and blame them, but others say the program Dominion is the real problem and comes from Canada.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Also like i stated in this thread....

Legislature is the one who makes laws....

So just now a judge in PA stated that the Sec. of State lacked the authority to say that ballots that were not positively ID'ed couldn't extend that date and those ballots need to be not counted. So what this means is that the mail in vote needed to be positively ID'ed that it was the person who cast it....ie: show ID some how. What the Sec. of State did was extend that time line by 3 extra days. The judge ruled against that "extention".

Again dont know if this will change the out come or not. But it shows you how the "goal posts" were moved during this election. Was it all in an effort to only help Biden... I dont know and couldn't answer that. But again this is why Trump is battling all of this in court.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pennsy ... d-deadline


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> So what's the scoop here. Some say the voting machines werre made in China and blame them, but others say the program Dominion is the real problem and comes from Canada.


It's already been fully debunked and it is sourced to a rumor off of 8chan.

It was a glitch that was corrected, but the glitch was caused by human error on a failed update, not the software as claimed. It was corrected almost immediately.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

I would suggest going out and reading the released transcripts from the court cases so far. The lawyers for Trump/RNC won't even use the term fraud and the numbers they are actually protesting as minuscule compared to the margins between Trump and Biden in the states. When flat out asked by the judge they admitted they have no evidence of fraud.

In PA they were contesting ballots and the judge asked the lawyers flat out if there was any fraud or undue influence on electors in any of the contested ballots and the lawyer said No.

USPS worker recanted story and affidavit claiming that Project Veritas's O'Keefe wrote it and coerced him into signing it. This was the claim that they were backdating ballots.

Trump lawyer had to admit there was in fact both republican and democrat observers in the ballot counting room where they suggested publicly there were none, they were allowed to stand a little closer as a side victory.

Michigan lawsuit got tossed by the judge as "inadmissible hearsay within hearsay" when appealed the next court labeled the entire suit as "defective".

Nevada lawsuit on automated signature detection was fully tossed.

Georgia lawsuit over a supposed 54 ballots which were claimed to have shown up late. Suit was rejected when it was proven the ballots showed up on time and there was no evidence to the contrary.

Arizona blotched ballot case didn't even make it to court before it was dropped by the complainants.

What they are saying publicly is a made up bunch of crap, they are not arguing these supposed claims in a court of law. Why wouldn't they argue it in a court of law if there was any shred of evidence supporting their wild claims. There is two reasons why lawyers will not, first they have no evidence whatsoever and 2nd they can get disbarred if they lie in court.

Trump is drawing this thing out as long as possible for one reason and one reason only, MONEY. He is asking for donations but reading the fine print most of the small donations are actually going to retire his campaign debt, not any legal defense fund.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Well now I know your wrong sothdakota. The video I watched they pushed outbobservers and put cardboard in the windows. People have given sworn affidavits. The officials also said there was a glich in the dominion program and 47 counties neededvrecounting. One county that has always beenheavy republican went 2 to 1vfor Biden. They descovered the program reversed the vote. There were democrats and republicans present and the democrats not wanting blame were giving the exllanation.
Have you read Chucks post explaining tovfriends who didnt get their vote counted at all. This has not been debunked. Perhaps Biden will be president, but he is not president elect as the media keeps saying. Until the delegates vote and he is officially confirmed he is not president elect.

Also the secretary of state in Pennsylvania over stepped her suthority and the court agreed with Trump. Those who had no identification will have their voted thrown out. Also those that came in late will be thrown out.

Also the Texas examiner is now at this minute on tv confirming what you say was debunked, and telling why Texas would not use Dominion. Its also false that they were not connected to the internet. Dominion failed their tests in 2017 but say its been corrected.

Its fraud when dead people vote. Its fraud when women find someone voted as them usingvtheir maiden name.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> Well now I know your wrong sothdakota. The video I watched they pushed outbobservers and put cardboard in the windows. People have given sworn affidavits. The officials also said there was a glich in the dominion program and 47 counties neededvrecounting. One county that has always beenheavy republican went 2 to 1vfor Biden. They descovered the program reversed the vote. There were democrats and republicans present and the democrats not wanting blame were giving the exllanation.
> Have you read Chucks post explaining tovfriends who didnt get their vote counted at all. This has not been debunked. Perhaps Biden will be president, but he is not president elect as the media keeps saying. Until the delegates vote and he is officially confirmed he is not president elect.
> 
> Also the secretary of state in Pennsylvania and the court agreed with Trump. Those who had no identification will have their voted thrown out. Also those that came in late will be thrown out.
> ...


Two cases have been brought claiming observers weren't allowed in or were removed. The Nevada case has been dismissed and the PA case the trump lawyers admitted under questioning from the judge that there were in fact observers present at all time. Windows were covered due to threats being made on ballot counting personnel.

The "Dominion" software issue was reportedly in Antrim Co Michigan (also used in Georgia in some counties). The Michigan Sec of State clarified and said that the tabulation error was not a software error, but user human error and that the error was found almost immediately and the proper tabulated results were always reflected in the software. It was just reported wrong.

I have not seen Chucks post, I will check it out.

The court did agree with Trump in PA, not the secretary of State whom had given additional time to cure ballots by incorrectly interpreting a statute. Those ballots had been segregated and were not included in any talley so they are a moot point as well.

Texas did not use dominion as it did not meet their requirements whereas in other states it does, be it security or some other issue it did not meet Tx requirements. Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Indiana, Michigan and North Carolina still have jurisdictions using Windows 7 which has reached it service life end and does not get patched updates to protect it. Which one is better or has more issues/security problems I have no idea. But to argue it now with no proof of actual issues is a moot point. Personally I don't understand how it's allowed to be so haphazard state to state, but it is. Any arguments now will not change anything in this election, but should be had to clean up the system for the future.

I agree it is absolutely fraud when dead people vote or false ID is utilized to steal someones vote. When they are found they are actually prosecuted. Numerous, and I mean over 15 different studies conducted from 2000 to 2016 have all linked the amount of actual voter fraud to somewhere between 0.0025% and 0.0003%, which is statistically nothing. Most studies say the instances of claimed fraud, with no actual proof, are the only reason it's a topic.

There is a ton of completely false stuff being spewed and a lot of it is originating or being regurgitated from our president. There are a ton of bad actors out there taking 5 seconds of video, claiming one thing is happening, cropping out the entire view or just flat out falsely representing it. Statistically speaking the election is all but over and just awaiting certification, which will happen.

There are a lot of things that absolutely need clearing up and have needed it for a long time, but politicians will forget very shortly and it will be left to be debated after the next election as well.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Why are the democrats fighting a recount? Shouldnt every American want the truth? I have only heard liberal sources say this is all debunked. Time hopfully will tell.

I was watching AOC tonight. She said they need the senate so they dont need to negotiate. That explains the need for the electiral college perfectly. To prevent the majority from subjecting the minority to tyranny.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I hear Trudeau said if Trump doesnt leave office he will send in the military to remove him. I think Trudeau and his big mouth should meet Seal Team Six. Seriously if he actually thought that way he should be eliminated now.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

HA HA HA :rollin: Plainsman you are hilarious.

Actually when Trump refuses to leave the White House it will be your military who will be forced to remove him.

Still you are funny. I feel sad though to see that you have fallen for all of these crazy conspiracy theories. Thought you had more on the ball. You know those scammers that phone old people and fish for information or try to scam their credit cards? You know the ones. You see them on the news after the same scammer has called them and scammed them again until they have their entire life savings. They better not get your number apparently.

You have been scammed several times recently from Canadian voting machines (turned out to be human error by the operators) to now this. But listen. If your military refuses to remove him I guess we can come down and do it for you if you want. When you finally come to your senses I mean. :beer: And the pandemic is over :bop: and the border is open oke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The future will tell us who is scammed. Justike the dozens of bombshell "we got him now" stories durring the fake impeachment. 
You are right though Trudeau probably didnt say that. Its just what I exlected from the fool so I jumped to conclussions just like you guys. I promise I will not do it 20 or 30 times though. Further Trudeau is your problem not mine. His little costume visiting, was it India, made me see him as a shallow and foolish man.


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## BugGoSplat (Oct 5, 2020)

Yeah...I don't forsee any of these lawsuits Trump's bringing up actually going through. There's not going to be a "new election". Don't get me wrong, I don't like Biden. However, the more Trump fights like this, the less and less I like him. Learn to lose gracefully. Recoup and then come back in 4 years if Biden completely screws up--which is definitely possible.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

BugGoSplat said:


> Yeah...I don't forsee any of these lawsuits Trump's bringing up actually going through. There's not going to be a "new election". Don't get me wrong, I don't like Biden. However, the more Trump fights like this, the less and less I like him. Learn to lose gracefully. Recoup and then come back in 4 years if Biden completely screws up--which is definitely possible.


We should be getting some information today. His attorneys say they have a lot of evidence, but have not elaborated.

I like Trump fighting back. It's the swamp establishment against the masses. I think Trump did win this election, but fraud run rampant through many means. The republicans are swamp creatures because they have not been doing the job they should. Judicial Watch is coming across evidence that the republicans should have found. The republicans should also have fought harder to stop mail in voting. Anyone with any honesty at all knows this was a set up for fraud. If they catch those responsible they need to make an example of them. Life in prison isn't enough. They have committed treason so punish them for that crime. Public execution of a couple will shut that crap down.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I am embarrassed when I get something wrong. Have you ever noticed a liberal can be wrong more than a dozen times and next time they still have that I'm superior and never wrong attitude? I don't understand that. Can anyone explain it? Is it a lack of shame? Is it arrogance? Is it simply Trump Derangement Syndrome? I notice if a conservative is wrong once they crow about it for months. If they are wrong they forget it in nanoseconds. I may have been wrong and don't know yet about a statement supposedly made by Trudeau and a day later I'm still embarrassed. Oh well now were about 30 to 1 "with half my brain tied behind my back" in Rushes voice :rollin: . oke:


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

Albert Einstein and Winston Churchill both said we learn from our mistakes. If that is true then most liberals never learn anything. If I'm wrong about something I'm never embarrassed but simply consider myself better informed. I will correct my mistake, admit my mistake, and apologize if necessary and move on as a better informed person. Anyone that thanks they never make a mistake is, well wrong and mistaken.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

> Learn to lose gracefully. Recoup and then come back in 4 years if Biden completely screws up--which is definitely possible.


No one likes to lose. Easy to say lose gracefully in golf, checkers, or chess but this is about the future of our country and our constitution which Biden could and most likely will damage to the point, that it will take a generation of new leadership to put straight again. Trump isn't fighting just for himself but for all of us. Yeah, President Trump has a often obnoxious mouth at times but his ideas for the better of this country far out weighs those faults. Folks rooting for Biden better get ready for $5 a gallon gas and a large increase in their taxes. Tax the rich my butt, all the rich will do is raise the price on everything to cover their loss so who do you think really pays for that tax hike.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Here is what I could find on current status of court cases:

4 cases in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania that were brought by voters were dropped today. They sought to keep the states from certifying the election but were dropped when no "expert" evidence of voter fraud was submitted. The lawfirm backed out when fraud claims couldn't be substantiated.

9 cases were dropped or denied last Friday in Arizona, Nevada and Georgia.

6 more cases were denied in Pennsylvania last Friday that sought to rule out 9000 absentee ballots.

The last remaining big case in Pennsylvania is still pending, but it has been curtailed back somewhat, originally trying to stop the state from certifying the election but now is concentrating on "curing" process for absentee/mail in ballots varying county to county. Legal experts do not expect it to gain traction.

Most of the high profile law firms have pulled out, mostly due to the president involving Rudy from what I have read.

At this point I wouldn't expect anything monumental or any significant changes in vote totals from what I have read.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I was listening to Newsmax tonigjt and a firm representing GM was called and told if they continue to represent Trump they woukd loose x, y, and z. So the left doesnt like bullies, but they are one.
I have heard some things have been dismissed, but exlect larger cases to bevresvealed this week. I think Trump is fighting so hard because I sincerely believe he won and not thousands but millions of votes were switched. Time I hope will tell the Truth, but a massive corrupt machine is against him.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Here is a question to help the mentally challenged think. Why of all these hundreds of "voting mishaps" are they all in favor of Biden?????? One would think they were purposeful. Nooooo that couldnt be. I think our liberal friends and relatives are in a state of Trump Derangement Syndrome induced state of denial. There is no way in the world they are so stupid they think there was no fraud. No way.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

I think the question is are there really all these one way mishaps. The only one I have heard of that is/was one way was the tallying issue in Michigan, which was promptly corrected. All the other issues they are pursuing or have pursued have been to reject specific lots or groups of ballots, not that it was one way or the other. There is no current lawsuit on the dominion software that I can find, yet trump and his team keep talking about it and having proof it happened. If they had a shred of proof it would already be in court.

The trump team is putting a lot of stuff out there that isn't holding up in court so far, but they continue to push that rhetoric which is misleading at best if they know that yet still continue to state it.

I just want to see the counts done fairly and legally, according to the state rules, not someone else rules because it favors one or the other. So far, most if not all of the claims have proven to be baseless and have been dropped or thrown out of court, most by republican appointed judges.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

And, being serious here, Trump is pretty well known to state whatever suits him regardless of the truthfulness in what he is stating, not that most of the media is any better, but we should expect more from both sides.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> I just want to see the counts done fairly and legally, according to the state rules, not someone else rules because it favors one or the other. So far, most if not all of the claims have proven to be baseless and have been dropped or thrown out of court, most by republican appointed judges.


This is my exact thoughts as well. I just want to make sure the integrity of our elections are held to the highest of standards. I don't want it to be "legal" for a State AG to make changes to laws as they see fit. I don't want State Govenors to do the same... etc. If they go thru the proper channels and things get changed... great. I dont want to see "emergency" powers to be used and abused for political purposes.... etc.

Here is the sad part about all of this and it honestly started under OBAMA... What we will see happen under Biden Administration is Executive orders that will over rule or over ride the Executive orders that Trump did. We will see presidents keep trying to "skirt" congress to push agendas. Obama did it. Trump did it... and now Biden will do it. It is the way our political system has turned into with CONGRESS not wanting to work with the President. Yes I am blaming all of them... not one party or the other. :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I think the question is are there really all these one way mishaps.


 Many people have give sworn affidavits 
which hold the penalty of perjury if they lie.



> The only one I have heard of that is/was one way was the tallying issue in Michigan, which was promptly corrected.


 Well currently the only one sticking in my head is the 2600 votes they found in a box in Georgia that they forgot to count. Forgot the content, but something like 80% Trump. Not all Trump.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Well currently the only one sticking in my head is the 2600 votes they found in a box in Georgia that they forgot to count. Forgot the content, but something like 80% Trump. Not all Trump.


So this just shows you that the fact that "all biden" votes that were "found" shows the fact of 100% votes for one canidate is ALMOST statistically impossible. Out of 2600 not all of them favor Trump.... how can 25000 or more all favor just one canidate.

Again I am not saying it is totally impossible but this is what the issue is.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy ... a-glitches


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't know where it stands in the courts, but there is still the 220,000 switched votes innnnnn where was it? Anyway that has the impact of 440,000.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

The main problem for all of us is that we won't know until after the fact if there is any validity to many of the claims.

I still go back to what the trump campaign is saying in public vs what they are actually filing lawsuits over are vastly different. Which leads me to believe most of the wild claims are pretty much bogus because if there were a shred of truth to them there would be a lawsuit based on them, which there is not.

There have also been multiple affidavits that have been recanted by the signing party and others that basically claim nothing or what might have appeared. Basically in non-legal speak they can't actually say they actually witnessed anything. Just that they might have saw something but can't be sure.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Lindsey Graham, tsk, tsk, tsk...

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/americ...uggested-he-throw-out-legal-ballots-1.5191958


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> > I think the question is are there really all these one way mishaps.
> 
> 
> Many people have give sworn affidavits
> ...


800 net gain for trump on that one.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> I still go back to what the trump campaign is saying in public vs what they are actually filing lawsuits over are vastly different. Which leads me to believe most of the wild claims are pretty much bogus because if there were a shred of truth to them there would be a lawsuit based on them, which there is not.
> 
> There have also been multiple affidavits that have been recanted by the signing party and others that basically claim nothing or what might have appeared. Basically in non-legal speak they can't actually say they actually witnessed anything. Just that they might have saw something but can't be sure.


I agree with this 100% and it does all come down to what you can PROVE. But look at Russia... oh wait they didn't prove nothing but had lots of lip jacking..... how about Ukraine... oh wait again same thing. (yes this is a jab and people on the left... oke: )

But yes it comes to what can be proven vs what people say. Just like you mentioned in the last sentence above.... it is people are "hearing" things... but never witnessed anything. Just like a boss can say... go do this... but if the people dont actually do it (that can be proven)... did it happen. It has to be proven that it did happen. That is the issues... and how large of a scale was it done on. Did 100 ballots or did 1 million ballots. Lots of WHAT IF's need to be proven. But what is scary is that the Media used to run wild with the "what ifs"... but now they are silent. :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Chuck do you watch Newsmax? They are saying the Dominion software was field tested in Venezuala. They also say our CIA has the program. Attorney Sidney Powel is said to have an impecable reputation and she says Trump won in a landslide and recieved over 80 million votes. The reason some precincts were shut down was because the algorythems in the Dominion program were not set to overcome such a large vote for Trump. Thats why one precinct run Biden votes over and over through a machine. More and more fraud is coming to light.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

The whole dominion software thing doesn't hold much water. OANN started the entire thing based off of data from Edison Research. There is only one problem with that, Edison Research didn't publish any report stating such and their CEO said they have no data that would suggest it. So it's a rumor started by a fringe news network, with no backing or data, that the president clamped onto.

I really fear history is not going to smile kindly on the republican party, which I am a member of, for running with these wild, unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

Maybe I am wrong, but every single case they are bringing is failing and no evidence is being presented in these cases whatsoever.

If you have such information, you don't tease it, you don't hold it, you file a case and present it to the court.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> HUGE victory for Pres Trump in the Pennsylvania Court! Thanks to your support, illegal ballots will NOT be counted! 1000% IMPACT LIVE! Act: bit.ly/35DE4Uo


 Text this evening.



> If you have such information, you don't tease it, you don't hold it, you file a case and present it to the court.


 There is a diffrrence in withholding and getting your ducks in a row. Rushing this isnt in Americas best interest.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ok Im not going to step in it this time. So far I cant find evidence to tip this either way. Im going to tell you guys and you can search also.

I am told a Senator Gomer, Texas I believe, was on OAN and said our military has seized computers in Frankfurt, Germany with our election results giving Trump 410 electoral votes.

I am very suspiciouse of this. I think the left creates some of these stories for the purpose of makeing the right look gullible. I do believe Trump won, but they have him winning California. If they had him with 310 electoral votes it would be more believable. I see its on twitter. They have been censoring us, why did they not censor this?

Possible, but plausible????? So many liars. Some prople are very confident Trump will prevail. I believe he won, but wish I was as confident. The left isnt stupid, but they are power crazy and viciouse. Some of those people who have signed affidavits better have body guards or they could get Hillaried.

Edit: There is a video of that senator saying that on my wifes phone. It was a video posted from a tv with the OAN channel on. Still could be fake. I downladed the OAN app and have not found anything.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> > HUGE victory for Pres Trump in the Pennsylvania Court! Thanks to your support, illegal ballots will NOT be counted! 1000% IMPACT LIVE! Act: bit.ly/35DE4Uo
> 
> 
> Text this evening.
> ...


The link in your text goes to the trump donation website for his legal fund and most likely refers to the case that was ruled upon regarding curing of ballots beyond the 3 day window, which none of those ballots were counted or included in any vote tally.

All of Trumps federal cases have now been ruled against or dropped. I think one case PA is one of the last cases left of significant numbers of ballots, which Rudy is arguing, the Judge cancelled Wednesday's hearing and gave them 3 days to send in evidence which is typically a sign that the judge has heard enough BS and he is ready to get to the produce your evidence or get out stage. Trumps lawyers asked to drop all cases in Michigan and Wisconsin and then left Trump. He is pretty much down to Rudy and a talk show host/lawyer who last week claimed that Trumps legal cases have zero chance of gaining any ground.

Both the US Army and CISA have verified that the claim on seizing servers in Germany is false and that they have not seized any servers anywhere. Scytl actually doesn't have any servers in Germany (they are in spain) and any US election related servers were actually hosted in Florida by a US company. The software involved doesn't actually tally the votes, it is just used by some jurisdictions to report the tally.

Again, fringe rumors started on social media with no actual factual data and crazy politicians along with fringe "news" organizations running with them are at best very poor, at worst dangerous for politicians to be repeating.

Here is the most up to date status of court cases I could find. Most have been denied/ruled against/dropped. The one remaining PA case is looking like the Judge will toss it. The remaining cases affect so few ballots they will most likely be dropped as well. As I said before, what Trump and his representatives are saying in public isn't anywhere near what they are arguing in court and about 3/4 of what they are claiming isn't even being argued or presented in court.

https://www.ft.com/content/20b114b5-541 ... 18a2527931


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The link in your text goes to the trump donation website


 Good grief it came to my phone, I posted it, I know what it is.

I think your link is highly bias. I prefer to wait and see. I hope they go about this slow and meticulous.

As for fringe news a person has to comb through it snd use judgement. The mainstream media has a worse record than the fringe groups. Seriously, we only need remember the impeachment debacle. Russia Russia, and then the Ukrain. Intelligent people lacking discernment suckered for the mainstream.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman....

I do watch some OANN on youtube. Liz Wheeler was very good on that with her "things the media left out" spot. Which was 100% accurate and how the media would omit things to twist "news".

But much of their stuff is far right leaning.... and sometimes they will omit some stuff as well. oke:

But it is a good starting point to get info/ideas and then do your own digging up to see if true or not. Honestly Steven Crowder is more accurate IMHO.

But like SDbearsfan keeps saying is that one by one the court cases are getting dismissed or tossed out. Today some Republicans in MI "certified" the results even though there is proven voter fraud in the state. But again.... is it 100 ballots or 1 million ballots. That is what everyone is looking at.

Which this just proves to you that the next presidential election they better figure something out.... even 100 votes is wrong and means our system needs to be looked at big time.... especially when they will want to do another "mail in" type vote. I hope they push a bill to not allow this or to make it more restrictive or have it better than "blindly" mailing out ballots. :bop:


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> > The link in your text goes to the trump donation website
> 
> 
> Good grief it came to my phone, I posted it, I know what it is.
> ...


Agreed there.

So much fake crap in all directions it makes it difficult to actually be informed properly on anything. Who would have thought in the Information Age where everything is at our fingertips that one would have to do 10 times the research to try to gleen if something is true or a farce. It's crazy town.

I don't think there is going to be slow and meticulous when it comes to filing any claims as deadlines are looming to certify vote counts. That's what makes me believe that if there is any evidence of massive fraud at all, the cases would be filed and they simply aren't or have been tossed due to no evidence. The PA suit still outstanding is the one I am watching as if that goes down it's pretty much all over IMO. 
I did check the link against others and it was spot on with the status of the lawsuits and has the links to any with judgements/opinions from the judges involved. I have no idea if financial times is one way or the other but the article was pretty much just a report on the happenings in the courtroom.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I have no idea if financial times is one way or the other but the article was pretty much just a report on the happenings in the courtroom.


 I have no idea about financial times either. I get suspicious since the democrats complain about Wall Street, but then Wall Street gives much more money to democrats than republicans. Things look one way on the surface, then reality is different. It makes a person suspicious of everything. Suspicion and reports stating opposite things make me question both. Actually I question some of the things I have posted. When I can't find anymore information I often post it knowing there are people with opposite views who will look hard to prove me wrong.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I hope everyone is watching the press conference with Trumps attorneys. Dominion and Smartmatic are very involved and have illegitametly elected people around the world. Trump will be our president. Trump actually won in a landslide. Millions of votes were changed.
Employees of Dominion and Smartmatic are coming forward. Can you believe our votes are counted in Spain by a company close to Chavez in the past and Mudero now.

The news network will only report Julianne was sweating. As important as this is most networks will not cover it. This is another form of censorship.

Edit: Some places had up to 350% overvote. In other words an area with a population of registered voters of 100,000 votes had 350 000 votes. Dominion and Smartmatic have been selling elections around the world.

We have been lied to. The lawyers for Trump have had no cases dismissed. There have been cases dismissed, but not those of Trumps team. They only have only three cases. The media is asking why some lawyers have dropped out. They dropped out because of death threats and threats to murder their children.

Further people who were Chavez people. some Chinese, Dominion, Smartmatic, George Soros, ANTIF, Black Lives Matter, and others are all linked. Our republic has been attacked.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

I will believe it when they actually produce a shred of evidence in court on it.

So far it's hearsay, conjecture and speculation. If it happened get it out there because you are claiming what for all intent and purpose would be the largest and probably most complex fraud committed in history that would involve both republican and democrat run states and politicians. Even some of his own appointed people would be involved.

What I would tell Rudy, Don and the gang is you better start moving and producing real evidence, or risk looking like the biggest bunch of wannabe liars and cheats ever.

Whomever is lying in this instance should be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives as they are either committing fraud/treason or have, depending on which side is and isn't.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I am playing it like I always do..... WAIT AND SEE approach.

Let the evidence play out (if there is any). But I am like SDBEARFAN... .it needs to happen soon because this is HUGE if it is all true. If it is true... many should be in federal prision on treason charges.... this is Dem's and Republicans or anyone involved. If another country is involved... FUNDING CUT.... TRADE DEALS TERMINATED or RENEGOTIATED... etc. It needs to be fire and brimstone coming down on people to show never do it again. That is if it is true. :thumb:


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Here is what I can find on the status of all legal cases per state:

*Arizona*

AZ republican party sued to block the certification of the vote - Denied
RNC sued to block the certification of Maricopa County due to rejected ballots - Dismissed after lawyers admitted the amount of contested ballots was tiny compared to the margin in the election.

*Georgia*

Lin Wood Jr. sued over the handling of absentee ballots - Judge appointed by Trump denied the suit.

*Michigan*

Trump campaign sued alleging they were not allowed to watch/observe ballot counting - under questioning had to admit they actually were (lawyers won't commit fraud in court)

Trump campaign dropped it case seeking to block certification of the election (this is the weird one where it wasn't certified, then it was, then after certifying it they wanted to unsign it).

*Nevada*

Trump campaign seeks to nullify the entire vote in the state, which has already been tried in different cases in the state and others, almost immediately being rejected. Nothing ruled on yet here though.

Conservative watchdog group is seeking to stop certification of the election - not ruled on.

*Pennsylvania *

The Rudy case - seeks to stop the state from certifying the election based on issues with absentee ballots which are basically technicalities. Things like not having a return address on the envelope, no secrecy envelope, etc. This has went all the way to the supreme court in the past and has been rejected. Judge canceled hearings today and set a schedule for next week for filings. This is the one I am really watching to see if they actually produce any evidence of mass voter fraud as I think they will drop the initial reason for the case and modify it, if they have evidence.

*Wisconsin*

Trump campaign filed for a recount and is paying 3 million for it.

So what I can find there are 3 active cases and a recount currently. All other cases I could find were rejected immediately due to lack of evidence.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

They dropped a case in Michigan because the state complied. When news people brought up cases they have lost Rudy called the lady a liar because it was not their case. They expect to loose in the lower courts in democrat run crap holes, and govto the US Supreme court. Thats my take away from todays press conference.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> They dropped a case in Michigan because the state complied. When news people brought up cases they have lost Rudy called the lady a liar because it was not their case. They expect to loose in the lower courts in democrat run crap holes, and govto the US Supreme court. Thats my take away from todays press conference.


That was my take too, but the weird part was the whole un-certified, certified thing on the 2nd Michigan case.

As far as getting to the supreme court, history has shown that the supreme court probably won't touch it unless there is some significant evidence. The evidence will have to come out in the lower court for it to even get considered. Most likely they will decline to even see it unless it does.

Even in Bush v Gore the supreme court stopped the recount and said it's over, in an election that was decided by 527 votes, if my memory serves me correctly.

Trump is really skating on thin ice if they don't produce evidence soon. Failure to produce such evidence looks more and more like he is the one trying to pull off the fraud job and invalidate a legal election, disenfranchising potentially millions of voters. It's probably the one instance I could see both sides of congress getting involved with a 25th amendment action.

The damage to either political party is going to have severe ramifications for years to come depending on how this all plays out.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I am afraid both sides have lost their integrity. Now if we could get a humble Trump. Although Im not sure about his bragging. If you ever listen to Rush talking to guys like Hannity he comes off very humble, but on his show he says things like outthinking liberals with half my brain tied behind my back. He makes conservatives giggle and ticks off liberals. We all dislike braggers so much we may have jumped to an eroneouse conclussion. In todays political climate your forced to brag some.

I think many people really like Trump as a person with any faults he may have.

Trump is right when be says the democrats want to keep the minorities down. Democrats throw the race card at everything, but they had their best time with Trump in office. That makes one see him as careing for people.

If you were absolutely certain you had won and were cheated what would you do? If you thought Biden would be getting spoon fed in a nursing home and Harris would destroy the America our ansestors died for what would you do? We have become such candy ***** in the last 20 years that we dont tolerate a fighter. Its little wonder modern men wear skirts and need six different bathrooms. Im 72 years old, the testosterone is gone, half my stregth is gone, and Ill still kick the crap out of the little ANTIFA snots.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Slowly, slowly, slowly you are starting to get it. The one mistake that I think you are still making is regarding Trump's character. I think he has proven himself to be a very shallow, ignorant and almost evil person. He only cares about one thing. Not a shining example of who the USA and a once-powerful democracy could be.

Plainsman, all us old guys can still kick some butt when we have to! Have you ever seen a Antifa snot? In North Dakota I mean?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> That was my take too, but the weird part was the whole un-certified, certified thing on the 2nd Michigan case.


The reason for this was THREATS against the people who certified it and threats against their family. They were DOXXED on social media by many. Had threats against them and what not. BTW.... Twitter did nothing about the DOXXING of these people yet they took down the Hunter Biden story because..... IT HAD PERSONAL INFO.... yeah... tell me Big Tech isn't an issue about censorship... uke: :eyeroll:

But that is why they didn't certify... then certified... and now want it undone. It is like giving a confession under duress.... which is illegal. So it will be interesting how that turns out. If they can produce actual threats....ie: phone recordings, letters, emails, etc. The court should uncertify it.


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## BugGoSplat (Oct 5, 2020)

Canuck said:


> Slowly, slowly, slowly you are starting to get it. The one mistake that I think you are still making is regarding Trump's character. I think he has proven himself to be a very shallow, ignorant and almost evil person. He only cares about one thing. Not a shining example of who the USA and a once-powerful democracy could be.
> 
> Plainsman, all us old guys can still kick some butt when we have to! Have you ever seen a Antifa snot? In North Dakota I mean?


This is super true. I'm no bleeding heart liberal, but I don't think the Republican party stands for any of the righteous morals we once had. In fact, I'd venture to say that the Republican party is no longer that. And if it's evolved into something else--which is it very clearly has--I don't want to be a part of it. Before, we held our ground and fought back against things like adultery, taking advantage of the poor, exploiting the Bible for political gain, and so many other things that make us good human beings.

And I hear a bunch of folks saying...Well, that's just Trump. He just does those things, but the problem is he and his goons are hijacking and sullying the party's good name. If they'd call it something else and allowed the true Republican party through, I'd be quite alright with that. Instead, he attempting to disrupt the entire fabric on which our country is built. One that I personally went to war for. And for that I take offense.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> he attempting to disrupt the entire fabric on which our country is built. One that I personally went to war for. And for that I take offense.


 It's strange how people see things differently. I see Trump trying to preserve the America we know, while the democrats and republicans are pushing it further towards a European type socialism. Well, the republicans are pushing towards a European type socialism, but the liberals are pushing towards more of a Cuban type government.

I can't remember the rock singer who had a band back in the 1970's, but he was famous and when asked about one of his guitar players who was a jerk he said I would rather have a total *** who can play guitar than a really nice guy that can't play. I look at a president that way. I don't know Trumps true character, none of us really do, but he sure had success at implementing things I agree with.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Here is my prediction as to how this will all play out, just based on what I see, for what it's worth:

Nothing will come of the court cases as I don't believe there is any actual evidence of mass fraud. Absolutely nothing or almost nothing has been produced in any of the court cases and most you can view all the filings online. This is why trump is meeting with the Michigan legislators, because when his cases get booted trump will cry foul and be trying to get the legislators of states to change electors for the electoral college. I can already hear the we didn't have time to put anything together, but then why are they stating they have all this evidence. They know the timelines here and the only reason to not bring such evidence immediately to court is that it either does not exist or that it is fabricated.

Too many election watchers, DOJ lawyers, trump appointed people (who are now fired), republican and democrat Secretaries of State in contested locations are all coming back with the same message, there is no mass fraud, no meaningful number of ballots to contest and that the election wasn't rigged in any way shape or form.

What I believe we are watching is a sitting president trying to actually subvert democracy and the vote, which I don't find too surprising given what trump said before the election occurred.

I may be wrong, I have been before, but I just don't see it.

On a side note, as a life long republican/conservative, I am appalled by all of this.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I see Dominion was to talk with the Michigan legislature, but they backed out and lawyered up. Also the Toronto office is empty and no one knows where they went.


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## Resky (Aug 13, 2012)

> Nothing will come of the court cases as I don't believe there is any actual evidence of mass fraud. Absolutely nothing or almost nothing has been produced in any of the court cases and most you can view all the filings online. This is why trump is meeting with the Michigan legislators, because when his cases get booted trump will cry foul and be trying to get the legislators of states to change electors for the electoral college. I can already hear the we didn't have time to put anything together, but then why are they stating they have all this evidence. They know the timelines here and the only reason to not bring such evidence immediately to court is that it either does not exist or that it is fabricated.


Problem with all of this is everything we're hearing is just hearsay and conjecture. These are hearings before a judge, not a trial where the public is allowed inside the courtroom. The fact is we don't know what the real facts are until there is a ruling or a trial.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> I see Dominion was to talk with the Michigan legislature, but they backed out and lawyered up. Also the Toronto office is empty and no one knows where they went.


Of course they did, they are being named in a lawsuit.

As far as the offices, the only reference I could find to this is a YouTube video. Doesn't make it true or not true, but very very questionable.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Here is where I have a problem: Why woukd attorneys with stellsr reputations stain their reputation with false statements about evidence when in such a short time the whole world will know?


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Well. The judge threw the Rudy suit out stating they had submitted the case without an actual shred of evidence. At least from what I read.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> So it's a rumor started by a fringe news network, with no backing or data, that the president clamped onto.


 If you think OAN is a fringe network your not close to being conservative. People are sick of backstabbing and the latest backstabber is FOX. Fox has lost 41% of its viewers. People are going to Newmax and OAN.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

I watch news to get news, not a slanted view of the news and not a view of the news to fit my own agenda or view.

Mostly I stick to the local news as I can't stand cnn, msnbc or fox as they are either slanted or just opinion shows.

I tried watching oan and newsmax, but sorry I have little faith in news networks quoting YouTube conspiracies and completely slanting one way. I also have no need for opinions, just need facts.

I gleen what I can and if it really matters to me then I research it. Ap news wire has been the most accurate and unbiased news source consistently that I have found, rarely running anything not properly sourced and just putting it out there without a slant.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I also have no need for opinions, just need facts.


Thats good, I really respect Chucks wait and see thoughts. Thats why I am willing to let Trump have at least as long as Al Gore had to challenge the Florida vote count. Liberals were extremely patient then, but rushed now.

I agree with you not trusting any news outlets, but I dont think the Ap is any better than CNN. I guess I try to wstch them all, but after years find there are none that can be trusted. Many are like FOX, they start out good, but then someone with money and an agenda buys them and exerts his bias. I will hope as I wait.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

AP is consistently ranked the highest in reliability (truth) an for being unbiased.

None of the major 3 rank in the top 10 (cnn, msnbc or fox)

Oan and newsmax rank with the likes of breitbart, drudge, daily cos, and other very slanted, supposed news outlets. Actually ranking below the national enquirer.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Who ranks them? I guess Im a bit sceptical about all the mainstream and most of the other.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I read this morning that a Michigan Elector voter will possibly go against the state and vote differently.

I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THIS....

1. If they don't think the election was "valid" they need to wait for all the court cases until they vote and then rule with what the court says.....ie: Trump won or Biden won. THAT IS THEIR JOB.

2. This goes against what the electoral college is about. Those people vote how the state goes...ie: WHOM EVER WINS THE POPULAR VOTE IN THAT STATE. That is why it was set up and how it was set up.

This all goes towards the integrity of our elections. If we start to have these "electors" go off what they feel instead of what the state does (IF THE VOTE WAS HONEST IN THE STATE).... that kills our whole system. Then peoples votes actually don't count. :bop:


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Chuck Smith said:


> I read this morning that a Michigan Elector voter will possibly go against the state and vote differently.
> 
> I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THIS....
> 
> ...


Doubtful, when you vote you are voting for a slate of electors not president, their are different electors for each candidate. Those electors are party loyalists their are chosen by their respective party which is why the faithless elector is rarely ever an issue.

Some states have laws specifically against this, I would suspect more will enact them.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> Who ranks them? I guess Im a bit sceptical about all the mainstream and most of the other.


There are a lot of academic type studies out there that get pretty in depth. I found this one the most interesting as it went through almost all sides on reliability, truth, what direction organizations lean, etc. it doesn't have some of the smaller news outfits on it yet. https://towardsdatascience.com/how-stat ... 8f0fab3cb3

https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings This one has a graphic showing which way news sites lean which corresponds fairly well with the first study.

Almost all the data I looked at had the AP at or near the top.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

SD...

The electoral college and the "electors" vote the way the state votes. Like you mentioned most have laws stating this.

That is the issue... .if they dont have to abide by those rules or laws... then why even have votes? It is those people deciding if they go against the electoral. THAT IS THE ISSUE.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> There are a lot of academic type studies out there


 God help us. Liars confirming the lies of other liars. Academics??? Ok at the exoense of repeating myself the tenth time. Liberals hated the little periodical called Readers Digest. At the fall of the Soviet Union they oublished some KGB files. They said they would defeat America through media, churches, and a ademia (public education). The worst native subversives in America are the college professors (academia).

As to the fraud: if true its more important than both the political parties. Finding it shoukd continue for extended time, and even beyond Biden or Trump taking office. Its the cornerstone of this republjc and if not protected we are already a crap hole country. Its so important that we shoukd set aside Trump vs Biden and all say investigate the possibility of fraud.

Off subject I just heard that anti Trump failing news outlets have been propped up with Chinese money. Those that formed this nation would hang such activity considering it traitorist. Only the dullest wit will not understand this is undermining America. The Chinese know it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> There are a lot of academic type studies out there


 God help us. Liars confirming the lies of other liars. Academics??? Ok at the exoense of repeating myself the tenth time. Liberals hated the little periodical called Readers Digest. At the fall of the Soviet Union they oublished some KGB files. They said they would defeat America through media, churches, and a ademia (public education). The worst native subversives in America are the college professors (academia). Some of those they said lean left would make Marx look centric.

As to the fraud: if true its more important than both the political parties. Finding it shoukd continue for extended time, and even beyond Biden or Trump taking office. Its the cornerstone of this republjc and if not protected we are already a crap hole country. Its so important that we shoukd set aside Trump vs Biden and all say investigate the possibility of fraud.

Off subject I just heard that anti Trump failing news outlets have been propped up with Chinese money. Those that formed this nation would hang such activity considering it traitorist. Only the dullest wit will not understand this is undermining America. The Chinese know it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

https://gnews.org/577635/


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman, in many ways and views we are the same. We are both conservative and believe in the constitution as written, at least from what I can glean from your posts. Our seemingly only difference in politics would be on president trump himself.

The link you have also posted "news" that George soros had been detained by federal authorities on election interference in Philadelphia. Which is 100% false. It's ok to distrust mainstream news, god knows I do and research it. But these fringe upstart one sided networks and supposed news organizations aren't news networks, they are eco chambers and conspiracy theory multipliers. They serve to undermine the democracy we all love and live in. All while claiming the opposite. They are the exact outfits the kgb was talking about. Now don't get me wrong as the mainstream news has done itself in over time with its crap as well, but the others are a flat out joke when you research them and their stories.

I view everything as a skeptic up front until I view the data behind it. Academics is much like government work and the private sector, of which I have been involved in all three. 99.5% of all people in all 3 just do their jobs. They have no interest in skewing things one way or the other they just do what they do and produce data. Yes there are organizations and others that do, but to paint everything with a broad brush isn't even close to being correct.

The biggest cluster**** I have witnessed in my career is politicians and term limits. You just get a bunch of stupid, one issue, legislators that have no clue how government actually works, no actual interest in it and what the actual laws are that have to be abided by for protections creating a complete mess. They come in railing on one issue in the states and have no idea or interest in the intrinsic issues and requirements in government as a whole. It makes zero sense to preclude a politician from running for a position just based on the number of terms he has served. If he breaks the law or doesn't do the will of his constituency then he gets removed or voted out, simple as that.

On the opposite side I don't think politicians should be able to get rich on just being a politician, but you can thank republican leadership for the citizens United decision making exactly that possible giving massive corporations the same rights as individual persons opening the torrential amount of massive donations from corporations that have polluted our politics. It made campaign finance reform a complete farce.

Sound bites and clips are skewed by the media and sycophants of politicians to serve their own will, conspiracy theories with zero evidence continue to be propagated and only serve to destabilize the entire system.

Trump lost this election and by all evidence he lost it fair and square. There is no evidence of fraud, there is no evidence of software manipulation, there just simply has been zero evidence of any of the wild claims being made by his subordinates. That in itself should be illegal but it isn't as it undermines the democracy we all stand for, fight for and die for. These sycophants and fringe so called news networks run with these wild claims for click bait and views.

Trump is a person that has never seen an issue he couldn't litigate through to get a beneficial result for himself regardless of how many people it screwed over, until he lost a us election and found out that just having money and lawyers don't change elections. Elections aren't bankruptcy's and construction contracts. Judges still serve to uphold the law and constitution for the vast majority. Only a fringe few courts are out there in left field and they are moderated out by the appeals process and Supreme Court.

That was a ramble, but I just get wound up when I see supposed news outfits claiming blatantly false crap.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The link you have also posted "news" that George soros had been detained by federal authorities on election interference in Philadelphia. Which is 100% false


 I would like to see that happen, but dont believe it has. Im not sure which link that was, but evidently the information about Soros came after something I did give some credit to but didnt read past what interested me. That was careless of me. I hope it wasnt Newsmax because I hope someone replaces what we lost - FOX. 


> The biggest cluster**** I have witnessed in my career is politicians and term limits


 Absolutely. both parties are makeing careers out of what was intendd to a service to the nation. They get rich selling their souls to lobbyists.


> Sound bites and clips are skewed by the media and sycophants of politicians to serve their own will, conspiracy theories with zero evidence continue to be propagated and only serve to destabilize the entire system.


 I get a little gunshy here. Liberals often lack a defence of their actions. or outright need to conceal unpopular actions and one of their methods is an accusation of conspiracy theory. That often kills further discussion. For me conspiracy theory is like any other theory in that it may or may not be true and only time and evidence will reveal the truth.


> Trump lost this election and by all evidence he lost it fair and square.


 I was reading on another site this morning, and heard on FOX last night that 70% of reoublicans and 40% of the general public think this election was stolen. I hear sbout evidence, and I believe there was corruption but as of yet I have seen no evidence. My belief comes from thinking it not possible for people to vote for more taxes, for crapping on the second amendment, for packing the Supreme Court, for a man clearly corrupt. and for a genersl degredation of the morality of this nation.
Does anyone think Biden will out perform Trump? We have the best economy, a vaccine nearly ready, constitutional judges on the supreme court. and the majority of Americans want to piss that away? I dont believe it.

Oh, and for the record sdbearfan I admire your not jumping to conclusions. The evidence that drives me is remembering all the dead people that voted for JFK in Chicago. The democrats always are shady passing bills so they can see whats in them etc. I believe the evidence is there, but can we find it, and can we prove it? Right now a democrat on FOX says silicone valley could change 15 million votes and we would never know it. Google did effect our election. It scewed searches to help liberals, and it censored conservatives. Facebook and twitter did the same. This man on right now does not support Trump. but he does admit silicone valley did everything they could to destroy Trump. He is speaking up because he says who will they support tomorrow. For example they help the Chinese communist serveil its citizens. I think they are doing that here also.
I think Trump won, but Im getting ready for a Biden administration. I think you will have to call in just like a dealer when you sell a firearm. I really dont needva semiauto or magazines with over ten rounds. I think I can get them sold before Biden takes office. Preferably cash to someone I dont know. Two rifles and a 1911 shouldnt take that long to sell. If things dont look up by January 1 they are history.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Thank god for deer and goose hunting to save my sanity. Maybe someday someone smarter than us can fix all this.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

southdakbearfan said:


> Thank god for deer and goose hunting to save my sanity. Maybe someday someone smarter than us can fix all this.


No kidding. :thumb: I didnt have a gun license this year, but one grandson did so my long time (40 years) hunting buddy, my youngest son, and two grandsons camped out and had a great time.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Plainsman you are exactly on target

Anyone that believes this election isn't being stolen has no idea what the real facts are

Maybe they will come out, I hope so.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The problem is that some people are pushing this as a TRUMP vs Dem's issue.

IT ISN'T..... I look at this as keeping the integrity of out elections. Keeping confidence in the people and our voting system. If they do the investigations and find nothing... great!!! If they do the investigations and find even a little fraud... it needs to be dealt with ASAP and remedied. If they do the investigations and find MASS FRAUD.... well... heads should roll and fix everything. EVEN IF THEY FIND REPUBLICANS DOING FRAUD.... :bop:

But the hatred towards Trump is on full display. Look at some of the stuff coming out...

1. A few years ago many Dem's talked about the software used in counting ballots saying "it was easy to hack and we have concerns"... when it was "russia". Now all silent. All it would take is those same people to come out and say... they fixed the problem we addressed a few years ago... but they haven't... they are just silent or screaming... NO FRAUD... what has changed???

2. RUSSIA hacked social media and social media turned/affected the election in 2016.... now nothing on social media silencing some voices... interesting... what has changed... NOTHING... Social media silenced and affected the election... only thing changed is by WHOM did it.... people who worked for Twitter and Facebook... instead of RUSSIA. oke:

3. This isn't about the election but shows you the depths people dont want to give Trump a victory.... THE VACCINE... a couple things... It is coming to light that it was actually politically motivated on the "announcement" of the vaccine. They waited until after the election to not try and give Trump good news to campaign on. Also many Dem's are not giving Trump any credit for operation warp speed and also come out and say... I WONT TAKE A VACCINE... when they were preaching before.... we need a vaccine.

Again I am not saying anything is concrete yet about fraud or anything. But just showing hypocrisy and how nothing has changed since one side was screaming... FRAUD and now the other side is and they are silent.

If you want to point at Republicans back in 2016 and they stated no RUSSIA... but they did say look at big tech and the influence.... they looked into back in 2016. I am not sure what they said about the vote counting software... but again... SHAME ON THEM if they didn't want to look into it.

Again this isn't a Republican vs Democrat things... this isn't TRUMP vs BIDEN thing... this is they need to investigate to make sure our election is fair and just. Hold our voting to the highest levels in the world. Otherwise we are nothing better than third world where the people dont have a say in its goverment. :bop:


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

I hope the People (not to optimistic, there are a lot of Dumb People out there)
understand that Mr. Biden is a Career Politian. He will say one thing and do
something else. He will be Riding the Coat Tails of what President Trump
has accomplished.

Mr. Biden will gnaw away at our Constitutional Rights. You can see it happening
already. Look at his choosing of his Cabinet. All is going back to a Status Quo,
and He will soon be giving in to the Third World Countries.

He will increase Taxes, he has to, to raise revenue to deliver those Pallets of
Billions of dollars from our C130 Transport Planes tailgates, to pay those
Countries that Hacked into the Voting to change the out come. Remember, his Son
got money for something from the Russians? Mr. Biden just hasn't been caught yet.

Thanks whoever voted Biden!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://rumble.com/vbkkjp-shock-video-f ... p&mc=56yab

So here is something coming to light from GA....

Again we dont know if these ballots were "all for biden" or what. But again.... where did they come from? Why were they counted when others were not present? Why was the room cleared out and only these people left around? etc.

Just more questions that need to be answered. COULD BE HUGE... or a nothing burger. But to say things were not done "secret" or "not" on the up and up... is coming to light... more and more and more. WHY????


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

If you guys are really questioning and thinking that there is substantial fraud I really do suggest you go read the actual court transcripts or watch the "eyewitness" testimony that is available. From the actual court proceedings and not the private Giuliani kangaroo court "hearings" that have no legal bearing or requirements at all or standing. They can say whatever they want in them without repercussions.

Not something from social media, YouTube, fox, msnbc or anything like that, the actual court proceedings, transcripts, affidavits, etc. most federal and state courts are having it available within 24 hours and some have the video.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

Why does the liberal argument regarding voter fraud ALWAYS include the catchall terms of "widespread" or "substantial" fraud. ANY fraud needs to be fully investigated and people arrested for their actions and given SEVERE penalties for their actions!!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

From what I hear some think they are not giving the lower courts all the evidence because they dont trust them and want to get t the Suoreme Court as quickly as possible.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

speckline said:


> Why does the liberal argument regarding voter fraud ALWAYS include the catchall terms of "widespread" or "substantial" fraud. ANY fraud needs to be fully investigated and people arrested for their actions and given SEVERE penalties for their actions!!!


Because when you have 150+ million people voting there are always going to be bad actors trying to do something.

The system is set up to minimize such actions with checks and balances. Statistically speaking there have been numerous studies done on this in the 2000's alone and election/voter fraud runs about 0.003% which not substantial nor widespread.

States looked at it, DOJ looked at it, the courts have looked at it and nobody can find anything even in the 100's of votes in a particular area let alone anything approaching the margins in the election.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> From what I hear some think they are not giving the lower courts all the evidence because they dont trust them and want to get t the Suoreme Court as quickly as possible.


The problem with this is to get to the supreme court, it most likely needs to go through both lower and appeals court first, although it could be directly appealed to them to take it up (which it has). Most appeals courts will not allow new evidence/witnesses submitted so when a case is appealed that lacks in evidence, they don't even hear/consider it let alone rule on it or let it have it's day in court. The supreme court has no such restraints and does allow new evidence/witnesses but it also looks at everything evidentiary/legally in the lower court cases in making it's decisions whether to hear a case or not.

From what I have read and can find, the trump campaign has requested the supreme court take up this matter (over the past several weeks) but it hasn't even made their weekly discussion docket, which it has to make that docket before it even is considered as a case to be taken up by the supreme court. All signs point to the court won't consider taking up this request. Basically, this is due to a complete lack in evidence, which is why in a situation with a timeline you put everything out there that you have, immediately in a case such as this.

The Trump campaign/RNC & allies have lost or withdrawn 34 of 35 cases in the 6 swing states to date.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I worry about the Supreme Court. Roberts is a turncoat swamp creature that will try keep Trump out of the court.

John Radcliff reports that already house snd senate members are reporting threats from China. Also they have targeted members of congress with six times the feauency of Russia and 12 times the frequency of Iran. I think its because they think they have their bought and paid for man in the Whitehouse come January. Biden, Harris, Schummer, Pelosi. AOC, Ilhan etc are proof you dont need to fly a plane into a building to destroy a nation. A democrat vote is a vote against God and America. Many of those votes were knowingly, others were born of ignorance.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Why does the liberal argument regarding voter fraud ALWAYS include the catchall terms of "widespread" or "substantial" fraud. ANY fraud needs to be fully investigated and people arrested for their actions and given SEVERE penalties for their actions!!!


You are correct there is small stats showing that "fraud" happens. BUT YET IT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH.

Like I keep saying.... even minimal fraud needs to be taken care of and stopped. I dont know if there is enough votes to change anything. But in some states or counties we are only talking 10K votes. Which by what you typed...at .003% is about 5000 votes. So you see the "fraud" along with errors in counting or double counts could get up to 10K votes.

So they all need to be looked into. Yet alone the state run races. :bop:

But again... the liberals or liberal media will say... oh .003% isn't a big deal... but when you are talking COVID.... where it is 99.8% chance of survival rates.... THIS IS SO DANGEROUS.... HYPOCRICY ALL OVER AGAIN. You cant say one Percentage doesn't matter in one subject but yet kick and scream about a percentage of the same amount in another.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

From another site: 


> BREAKING: Lin Wood says new information points to Communist China secretly acquiring Dominion in October 2020 for $400 MILLION. Staple Street Capital, owned by Carlyle Group & the owner of Dominion, filed a Sec Form D indicating a new equity position being taken by UBS SECURITIES LLC, 75% of which is owned by the Communist Chinese Government, holy **** this is the holy grail no wonder the democrats have been silent about the election. You democrats fxxxxx with the wrong president


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## Machiavelli (Sep 12, 2012)

I have to say, there is a part of me that is a bit amused by Trump and the Republicans screaming election fraud. It was the democrats, who for the last 4 years, have tried to pass measures to fund the security of our elections. And the Republicans refused to give money to experts to audit, improve, and help to ensure the security of our election systems.

I hope that following this election Democrats are just as motivated to pass legislation to help secure our election systems, and I hope Republicans, being that they are crying about election fraud, will get behind those measures as well. But my intuition says they will not, as it seems obvious that all of their crying now is not for the good of the people, it's them playing polarizing political games that they think they are going to benefit from.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

References please because recently its been the republicans that didnt want mail in because its so susceptible to fraud, and the democrats wanted it. I will partially agree with you because a few years ago many democrats were warning about the suseptability of mail in to fraud. That makes it even more suspiciouse now. I do hope both sides will secure our election. Im pleased you support that also. Lets call our representatives in DC. Lets tell them to start with voter picture id. They either support picture id or they support the fraud.
Personally I think they are all a bunch of swsmp creatures. The division is one side supports business and no matter what type of business if it makes a dollar they worship it. The other side more often perverts the truth and they have the support of the LBGXYZ crowd. They have also suckered the minorities because I believe they actually dispise them. That side will soon support pedophilia since so many are, and since they support abortion its only a matter of time until they support euthanizing the senior citizens. Ill let you guess which side is which. If you can guess then I was accurate in my assessment.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Down here the crooks are getting exposed and the tide is changing in Trumps favor our election down here was beyond crooked

I suspect Trump will be president again, and our governor and Secretary of State will be gone soon, everybody in Georgia is furious about what the dems tried to pull

And our republican governor is a RINO disgrace we will boot him out of office soon


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Bob the democrat party has become the socialist party and the republicans now fill the niche the democrats were in. Currently democrats are far far left, republicans are moderate left, and if we want to be moderate we will need a new party. When the democrats start their name calling and call someone radical right thats someone who was dead center only 10 years ago.

Modern republicans want Trump to give up. :******:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> . I will partially agree with you because a few years ago many democrats were warning about the suseptability of mail in to fraud. That makes it even more suspiciouse now.


Mach... is right on this. Dem's did bring it up about 4 years ago. BUT NOW THEY ARE SILENT..... WHY?

Remember Russia, Russia, Russia..... and how they used SOCIAL MEDIA to sway an election. Hmmmm.... look how they are now defending social media saying they didn't suppress conservatives. When it is proven they did. They are silent now that it shows "CHINA" possibly doing things that they accused RUSSIA of doing. BTW.... when the probe into RUSSIA was finished it did show that they interferred with the election back in 2016 but did it for BOTH PARTIES. But what could make any country just want to "switch" to another one. But again... this isn't what they are talking about now. They are talking about voter intimidations, watchers being locked out of polls, people bringing in other ballots, people voting twice, dead people voting, machine errors, etc.

But things did happen and we just need to wait and see if it is a grand scale or not. :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> But things did happen and we just need to wait and see if it is a grand scale or not.


 I think it was on a huge scale. The reason I believe that is because six states shut down all at once. These were the six swing states and it's still being contested. Because they all shut down at once it shows some coordination. Also this is the time that people were kicked out and could not watch the count. It was when boxes and bags of ballots came out from under tables and back rooms. It was when hmmm I think it was 280,000 ballots in a mail truck going from New York to Pennsylvania disappeared. Why do ballots go from one state to another. I have read that's a crime during and election. This stinks on a grand scale, but the media is still suppressing the story. Older relatives on the farm that don't have the computer skills or the TV services that we do have not heard any of this. They never heard anything about the Ukraine. All this suppression is part of an election fraud.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman...

Nobody is talking about two Dem house members bringing lawsuits up the same as Trump about election "fraud" or "irregularities"...

They are in the states of Iowa and New york. But these are the same Reps who pushed for MAIL IN VOTING.

Again I am not saying FRAUD in those states but how come we dont hear about this. Also this goes to show you the impact of just 10K votes.... more on the smaller level than PRESIDENT... it is for House/Senate members and think about state run elections.... where 2000 votes could be HUGE.

So any/all fraud needs to be looked at and SQUASHED!!!


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Chuck Smith said:


> > Why does the liberal argument regarding voter fraud ALWAYS include the catchall terms of "widespread" or "substantial" fraud. ANY fraud needs to be fully investigated and people arrested for their actions and given SEVERE penalties for their actions!!!
> 
> 
> You are correct there is small stats showing that "fraud" happens. BUT YET IT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH.
> ...


It is dealt with. https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud Map of states takes you to all of the recent voter fraud cases in that particular state. 1296 verified cases with actual. Evidence of voter fraud with 1120 convictions since 1992. Statistically speaking, voter fraud doesn't move the needle a hundredth of a percent in a national election.

This thing is over. Case after case continues to be thrown out of court. Conspiracy theories continue to be disproven like the dominion voter machines as the hand count matched the machine count. The 2 minute video of the Georgia ballot counting was edited out of hours and the judge looked at all of it and said it wasn't. No dominion servers were ever seized in an imagined raid that never happened, no dominion machine was actually found and in possession of the trump team, no algorithm was found that changed a count, out of state trucks were actually rented by the districts to deliver ballots from the precincts as the districts don't keep trucks or own them. The common theme of all of these is the only place they ever existed was on social media.

The other common theme in all of these things is when they actually get into court they are arguing there "could" have been this or that, without any evidence of any of it actually happening. "Eyewitness" affidavits fall apart under testimony as complete hearsay or conjecture under questioning. While it is great to know to prepare for future elections any potential weakness of a system you can't disregard an election result because someone dreamed up something that could happen if 15,000 different things happened at once simultaneously.

The election was 100% fair by all evidence presented and this effort is just a way for trump to continue to line his own pockets. That in itself should be illegal and prosecuted along with the incessant bringing of these frivolous lawsuits that flat out have zero actual evidence.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

1 for 48 in lawsuits brought since the election with the lone victory being they allowed ballot observers to move from 10 feet to 6 feet.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Agreed that there might not be enough to turn anything over for presidental election....

But the smaller elections for House or Senate.... maybe... or even with in the states run elections.

That is where these "fraud" things need to be squashed.

But no comment on how the media and liberals scream that .03% isn't a big deal when dealing with FRAUD... .but with the same percentage with COVID... it is HUGE ISSUE.


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## Machiavelli (Sep 12, 2012)

Fun fact : remember that Trump alleged massive voter fraud in 2016 to explain his popular vote loss, he then formed a "voter integrity" commission to investigate,

.... And then quietly disbanded the commission when it found no such fraud. This is not a new playbook.

:rollin:


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Chuck Smith said:


> Agreed that there might not be enough to turn anything over for presidental election....
> 
> But the smaller elections for House or Senate.... maybe... or even with in the states run elections.
> 
> ...


.003% and .2% are vastly different. .003% is the quote you are referencing above from fraud studies, which was a range from .003 to .00025%. .2% is the quoted fatality rate from COVID.

300+ million people in the USA. .2% fatal = 600,000 fatalities. 
150+ million votes .003% = 4,500 votes.

See the difference?


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## Machiavelli (Sep 12, 2012)

And let's not forget ( or help those here with increasing memory loss) Dump claimed fraud in the 2016 primary after Iowa too.

"Based on the fraud committed by Senator Ted Cruz during the Iowa Caucus, either a new election should take place or Cruz results nullified."

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/tru...tions-rigged-doesnt-results/story?id=74126926

:lol:


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## Machiavelli (Sep 12, 2012)

Same playbook pretty much throughout his adult life: if it's not beneficial to him, it's "rigged" against him.

He's raking in the $$$ by propagating this current scam, so he'll definitely drag it out for as long as he can.


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## Machiavelli (Sep 12, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Same playbook pretty much throughout his adult life: if it's not beneficial to him, it's "rigged" against him.
> 
> He's raking in the $$$ by propagating this current scam, so he'll definitely drag it out for as long as he can.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

FEC filings, current as of today. Trump campaign has spent $8 million and change on election fraud cases while raising over $200 million.

Somewhere between 60-75% can go directly in trumps pocket, where do you guys think it's going to go?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

southdakbearfan said:


> FEC filings, current as of today. Trump campaign has spent $8 million and change on election fraud cases while raising over $200 million.
> 
> Somewhere between 60-75% can go directly in trumps pocket, where do you guys think it's going to go?


 I actually don't know, but I'm hesitant to believe you know. If it's to challenge an election isn't it subject to election rules, which means he can not keep it for himself. That's more Hillary MO type.


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## Machiavelli (Sep 12, 2012)

Plainsman said:


> References please because recently its been the republicans that didnt want mail in because its so susceptible to fraud, and the democrats wanted it.


https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4825 ... rity-bills



> Democrats tried to get consent to pass two bills that require campaigns to alert the FBI and Federal Election Commission (FEC) about foreign offers of assistance, as well as legislation to provide more election funding and ban voting machines from being connected to the internet.
> 
> But Sen. Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.) opposed each of the requests. Under the Senate's rules, any one senator can ask for unanimous consent to pass a bill, but any one senator can object and block their requests.
> 
> Blackburn accused Democrats of trying to move the bills knowing that GOP lawmakers would block them and giving them fodder for fundraising efforts.





> Election security has become a point of contention during the Trump era. House Democrats have passed several election-related bills, including a sweeping ethics and election reform measure, but they've hit a wall in the GOP-controlled Senate.
> 
> A release from Democrats this week that blasted Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) for a "legislative graveyard" included a list of 10 election security-related bills that have stalled in the upper chamber.
> 
> ...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is something to just think about....

HARRIS STILL HASN'T RESIGNED HER SENATE SEAT?

I dont know what the protocol is for this at all. But the election was over a month ago. People on here and others are all saying it is over for Trump and what not. If there is "no doubt" ... how come she hasn't resigned from her seat or put in the paper work to do so?

Again I dont know what the protocol is for this and she could be doing the natural time table. But again... what is the protocol?

Just something to think about if she is "holding on" for some reason? Or is it normal not to put in the paper work until later.

Edit... Just looked up Biden did it in Jan. of 2009... so right before being sworn in. I just put up a nothing burger... :laugh:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Edit... Just looked up Biden did it in Jan. of 2009... so right before election. I just put up a nothing burger... :laugh:


 Have you ever noticed Chuck that it's only conservatives that admit they made a mistake? :rollin: I'm betting you also meant inauguration and not election. 

Harris may not be holding on to her senate seat because she thinks Trump will prove election fraud, but even though I hope Trump pulls it off I am getting prepared for the two communists to be inaugurated. I dumped my AR15 after I run and add on this site. A fellow showed up with cash with his covid mask on. After my comment on this site last week I was contacted and two days later sold that Springfield XDM competition to a guy with cash and a covid mask. I like to sell to younger people who can keep them for another 60 years. Speaking of comments does anyone want to buy a half dozen 30 round mags for an AR15. I no longer have any use for them. How about $10 each. Most people are charging more and gouging people, but I'll let these go for about half what you pay anywhere else.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Have you ever noticed Chuck that it's only conservatives that admit they made a mistake? :rollin: I'm betting you also meant inauguration and not election.


yep... just made that change... LOL


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## Machiavelli (Sep 12, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Same playbook pretty much throughout his adult life: if it's not beneficial to him, it's "rigged" against him.
> 
> He's raking in the $$$ by propagating this current scam, so he'll definitely drag it out for as long as he can.


Same playbook

https://twitter.com/yeswecan4us/status/ ... 41443?s=21

Anyone remember this?


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Here's the deal guys. Trump is no conservative in any way shape or form and barely a republican. He switched to the party 12 years ago, just like he said many years before that in an interview that he would switch to run for president. He was a democrat most of his life. He sure hasn't proven to be a fiscal conservative at all, spending money like water. He's gotten in a trade war that has actually cost more in farm bail outs than the big bank bail out of 2008. His one redeeming feature for me in all of his 4 years is who he put on the supreme court.

I been and voted for republicans all my voting years. Most of the time I could just as well vote a straight R ticket except for a few spots here and there where I had some major issues with a candidate. I couldn't bring myself to vote for him last time and didn't this time as I just think he is completely unpresidential and basically hot garbage as a human being. Do I think mainstream media has given him a fair shake, absolutely not, but he also speaks like an imbecile and incessantly tweets like a teenage girl on a mood swing (both unpresidential qualities for sure).

He's a con man, he's been a con man his entire life it's just that he was born into money and was still bailed out a couple times by his dad and he is perpetrating his biggest con running out the door with his continual spewing of election fraud, when there basically isn't any. He is begging republican governors to go against the vote illegally to stay in power. He is trying to get his conspirators, like jim jordan (who is another puke ethically), to try to pull something in the legislature. It all borders on treason to me and if the republican party continues to support this without even going and asking what do you actually have for evidence, then they may loose me and many more die hards I know for a long time. Him and his family are so corrupt that they have been barred from operating or being involved with any nonprofit charity, and fined, because they stole from it.

This whole effort has proven to be a complete farce. I was willing to give it some time but you don't loose that many court cases and get that many court cases thrown out by accident and you sure don't when you have "Mountains" of evidence. He keeps perpetuating social media conspiracy theories that are both damaging to the democracy and also dangerous as there are way to many idiots out there just waiting to do something stupid.

Drain the swamp, lol. We only thought politics were corrupt until we put a corrupt businessman in charge. I can't wait for all to get revealed when he is out of office by the rats deserting the sinking ship. The bright spot is when he pardons everyone their NDA's and 5th amendment protections go out the window too.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> I couldn't bring myself to vote for him last time and didn't this time as I just think he is completely unpresidential and basically hot garbage as a human being. Do I think mainstream media has given him a fair shake, absolutely not, but he also speaks like an imbecile and incessantly tweets like a teenage girl on a mood swing (both unpresidential qualities for sure).


This is what I hear alot about Trump and why people dont like him. Which I agree to much of it by a certain extent. he isn't "presidental" or "political" in anyway shape or from. He throws out much of the norms and is brash.

But here is my question.... What are his policies you don't like? What don't you like that he as done for the country?

Healthcare:
you dont like how he is working to lower the cost of perscription drugs?
you dont like he signed an EO that made hospitals to post what things cost so people can shop around? (ACA didn't do this)
you dont like it that he did an EO allowing VA people to go to other hospitals and those hospitals accepting those prices?
you dont like how he signed an EO that allows small businesses to "group" together to get a group rate for insurance? (aca didn't do that)
you dont like that he reformed Medicare so people dont get over charged on drugs?
you dont like his "right to try" legisation that allows people to TRY experimental things when all hope is lost. When before they couldn't.
you dont like the VA Choice and Accountability act which opened up lots more services for vets?
you dont like that he pushed the FDA to approve more "generic" drugs to help lower the costs of drugs?

Taxes:
You dont like that he lowered taxes? (dont pull the he did it for the "rich" everyones taxes decreased!)
you dont like that he DOUBLED the child tax credit?

Education:
you dont like how he increased funding to "black" colleges by 14%?
you dont like how Trump changed the 529 College rule to also work towards elementry and highschool...ie: save to send kids to private schools?
you dont like how he pushed "school choice" initiatives?
you dont like Perkins CTE, this give more funding to push for vocational education... it hasn't seen money since 2006.

Poverty/Low Income issues:
you dont like Trumps "Oppurtunity Zones" which was in his tax bill, that gives money to promote low income areas?
you dont like his Oppurtunity Zones designated over 8500 communities that will get money and spur developement?
you dont like the Child Care act that funds child care for low income families?

Economy:
YOu dont like he brought jobs back to the USA via trade deals?
you dont like the stock market up and jobs up?

Criminal Justice reform:
you dont like his criminal justice reform.... first step act?
you dont like that he promoted Second Chance hiring for released inmates?
you dont like his "ready to work" initiative which is hiring released inmates?
you dont like how he got more "conservative" judges back on the federal benches?

Trade:
you dont like he made the USA less energy dependent?
you dont like the fact he is making Europe Countries pay more into NATO, less dependent on the USA for funding?
you dont like how he made or got the USA better Trade deals or deals that are more favorable than before for the USA?
you dont like the 250 billion trade deals with China, 12 billion with Vietnam, Deal with Europe to buy more USA energy?

Conservation:
you dont like that he protected 360,000 acres of land and also signed a bill that would spend $10M to clean up the oceans?

Humanitarian:
you dont like the peace deals he is working in the middle east?
you dont like the work he as done to fight Human trafficking? (FOSTA, ACTeam, National hotline, other funding)
you dont like his EO that didn't allow the goverment to discriminate Christains and to punish ANY expressions of FAith?

Then some stuff I dont think is "Great" but are accomplishments:
border wall, space force, defeated ISIS (can be debated because Obama did some good things there too), Had hostages Freed that it seemed Obama couldn't get done, ended COMMON CORE education, 9/11 victims compensation fund, secured $6 billion to fight opiod addiciton,... plus many other things.

Also people will argue "climate" change issues.... well this is debatable because since Trump has been in office emmissions had decreased in the USA. Is it his doing... dont know... will they keep decreasing... dont know. But he did leave the Paris Accord and is trying to make other countries more responsible. What people dont know is that the USA gets hammered with regulations and other industrial countries DONT. This means... USA does strict laws.... China, India, etc dont. So people think... .USA will even out the infractions by others.... IT DOESNT. Everyone needs to be on an even playing field. That is why he pulled the USA from the Paris Accord. BTW... the laws are still intact in the USA. SO it isn't like he wants the USA to become China, India, etc in regaurds to polution and what not.

Now I will also say this....

He increased the debt and hasn't "controlled" spending at all, He needs to work on immigration streamlining (but is getting fought tooth and nail on this one), needs to cut more "fat" from the goverment and spending, people can argue how he handled COVID... but again States Rights play into it, look how his Doctors and Advisors change on subjects, etc. But again... you can argue that point.

Sorry I got off subject. But that is one thing that gets me about this... people dont look at the accomplishments. They just look at him "personally". It is like when Obama went on the slogan of "change"... I would ask people... well what is his policy... NOBODY COULD TELL ME... they just said... we need Change.

Now back to FRAUD:

I will keep saying... the court cases keep getting throw out. But many are not the direct one by Trump. Some are... some are not. But agree that I think this all wont amount to a hill of beans. But if it shows weak spots in our election process that need to be tightened up or if it shows spots where FRAUD could happen, etc. Then we as a country need to address those spots. Because out election integrity is what separates us from many countries and is why our country is great and people want to live here or become citizens. They feel they have a say and that our system is "corrupt".

SD... I know I messed up on my math. But one thing is known is that "mail" in votes have the biggest chance to be fraudulent. It is proven. This year around 65 million people voted by mail... other years absentee ballots only were in the 30 millions. That is something to look at. Also it goes along with what Trump is fighting..... VERIFICATION... many of the mail in votes dont get signature verifications. He wants them to be verified before "calling" states. Why wont they do this???

Again... not claiming fraud at all. But why not make sure the votes were cast by who they say casted them. Seem legit to ask for this...doesn't it?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I couldn't bring myself to vote for him last time and didn't this time as I just think he is completely unpresidential and basically hot garbage as a human being. Do I think mainstream media has given him a fair shake, absolutely not, but he also speaks like an imbecile and incessantly tweets like a teenage girl on a mood swing (both unpresidential qualities for sure).


 I perhaps have posted this multiple times so sorry. A popular band who I cant off hand remember the name as I sit here in an old barn waiting for deer to walk past said back inbthe 1970s when people complained about his guitar player being an a-hole. He said "if you have a band with a guitar player do you want a great guitar player thats an a-hole or a nice guy who is a poor guitar player, and which do you want to listen to?

Arguing about Trumps personality means you have nothing else. I am 72 years old and Trump has out performed every presidentvin my lifetime. Regardless of his personality Ill take him over anyone democrat or republican that run in 2016 and 2020. Put on your big boy pants and vote for America, and that sure dont mean China Joe and the ho.

I see Joe said if he and Harris disagree on anything he is going to develop a disease and resign. Paving the way already to what I said when Joe won the nomination. He dont want Nancy coming after him with the 25th amendment.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Biden won't be president for more than 6 months, 8 if he's real lucky. If he doesn't willingly resign Pelosi will use the 25th to ost him. Then we get president Harris and vp Pelosi, I hope there's a USA left in 2024.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

huntin1 said:


> Biden won't be president for more than 6 months, 8 if he's real lucky. If he doesn't willingly resign Pelosi will use the 25th to ost him. Then we get president Harris and vp Pelosi, I hope there's a USA left in 2024.


Sad, but to many are willing to give up America because they dont like Trumps Tweets or he doesnt speak as well as Obama reads a teleprompter.


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## Machiavelli (Sep 12, 2012)

The Supreme Court, with three justices appointed by Trump, thought so little of his allies' bid to overturn the election results in Pennsylvania that it dismissed the case with just one sentence and no noted dissents.



> (ORDER LIST: 592 U.S.)
> TUESDAY, DECEMBER 8, 2020
> ORDER IN PENDING CASE 20A98 KELLY, MIKE, ET AL. V. PENNSYLVANIA, ET AL.
> The application for injunctive relief presented to Justice Alito and by him referred to the Court is denied.


 :beer: :beer: :beer: oke: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Bottom line.

No corruption. No voting fraud. 1 out of almost 50 filings succeeded. 49 times Trump was laughed out of court.

You've all been lied to. Over and over and over. So much winning.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/us/s ... -vote.html



> WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court on Tuesday refused a long-shot request from Pennsylvania Republicans to overturn Joseph R. Biden Jr.'s victory in the state, delivering an unmistakable rebuke to President Trump in the forum on which he had pinned his hopes.
> 
> The Supreme Court's order was all of one sentence, and there were no noted dissents. But it was nonetheless a major setback for Mr. Trump and his allies, who have compiled an essentially unbroken losing streak in courts around the nation. They failed to attract even a whisper of dissent in the court's first ruling on a challenge to the outcome of the election.
> 
> The court now has three justices appointed by Mr. Trump, including Justice Amy Coney Barrett, whose rushed confirmation in October was in large part propelled by the hope that she would vote with the president in election disputes. But there was no indication that she or the other Trump appointees were inclined to embrace last-minute arguments based on legal theories that election law scholars said ranged from the merely frivolous to the truly outlandish.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Chuck Smith said:


> > I couldn't bring myself to vote for him last time and didn't this time as I just think he is completely unpresidential and basically hot garbage as a human being. Do I think mainstream media has given him a fair shake, absolutely not, but he also speaks like an imbecile and incessantly tweets like a teenage girl on a mood swing (both unpresidential qualities for sure).
> 
> 
> This is what I hear alot about Trump and why people dont like him. Which I agree to much of it by a certain extent. he isn't "presidental" or "political" in anyway shape or from. He throws out much of the norms and is brash.
> ...


I don't hate everything he has done, not by a long shot. He did more and the middle east than anyone expected for one and as stated I like his supreme court picks among other things.

Regardless of that, my personal belief is he is wholly unsuited for the office, I had hopes the magnitude of the office itself would force a little change in him, but it only magnified his shortcomings.

What presidents say and do matter, not just their policies. I believe he has proven to be a danger to the country as a whole and has inspired whack jobs to act out on both sides, worsened violence when he should have been trying to do the opposite and is a shady mofo that utilized the office to enrich himself.

My main concern with him when he was elected was his ethics, and nothing he did made me feel any different and in most cases it made me feel worse.

As far as fraud and verification. In almost all instances of the recounts and specifically georgia, they did verify signatures in between the two recounts, yet he still runs around claiming the opposite. In the other states verification is done almost immediately, which is part of why the counts take so long.

The numbers of mail in votes were wholly expected, given the pandemic, and the state legislatures set it up to vote that way this year because of the pandemic. The time to fight that fight was when the rules were passed by the state legislatures and in some cases that fight was had and those trying to limit it lost in court.


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