# Photo's they don't want you to see



## huntin1

Here's a couple of photo's the main stream media won't print.



















huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

The one I really don't want to see is the 7000 (this number was taken at the 1000 mark of US soldiers killed in Iraq, it will be significantly higher now but I refuse to make a figure up) soldiers who have been severely injured (such that it required being shipped back to the states) or who have had a limb blown off. I wonder just how much candy they gave that kid to hold said sign?


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## Plainsman

Hunt1 you should have titled that post "The Pictures MT doesn't want people to see"


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## racer66

:lol: :beer:


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## farmerj

Militant_Tiger said:


> The one I really don't want to see is the 7000 (this number was taken at the 1000 mark of US soldiers killed in Iraq, it will be significantly higher now but I refuse to make a figure up) soldiers who have been severely injured (such that it required being shipped back to the states) or who have had a limb blown off. I wonder just how much candy they gave that kid to hold said sign?


Your welcome......
From all the veterans who have protected your 1st Amendment rights of Freedom of Speech.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Militant_Tiger said:


> The one I really don't want to see is the 7000 (this number was taken at the 1000 mark of US soldiers killed in Iraq, it will be significantly higher now but I refuse to make a figure up) soldiers who have been severely injured (such that it required being shipped back to the states) or who have had a limb blown off. I wonder just how much candy they gave that kid to hold said sign?


 :eyeroll:


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## the_rookie

Farmer by any chance r u a Vietnam vet? in other forum thingies here i here to talking bout shooting a M2 50 cal were u by any chance a sniper cause in nam i know that they used the m2 50 cal as a sniper rifle effective ranges on people at 3000 yards


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## farmerj

the_rookie said:


> Farmer by any chance r u a Vietnam vet? in other forum thingies here i here to talking bout shooting a M2 50 cal were u by any chance a sniper cause in nam i know that they used the m2 50 cal as a sniper rifle effective ranges on people at 3000 yards


I have 15 years with the MN National Guard. I spent 7 monthes on Border Security with the US Customs and spent 11 month active last year with 7 of those in Kosovo.

On the vehicles I had though, the M113A2, my primary weapon system was a M2 HB machine gun, the .50 cal machine gun the military has.

For fun during the year I practice for service rifle competition and hope to shoot that as well as x-course, long distance and high power this year in MN and North Dakota. These ranges start at 200 yds standing and go out to 300 sitting, and 600 yds prone. the X-course and long distance take you all the way to 1000 yds.

The rifles I use for that are a service grade CMP M1 garand and a Polytech M14.

Check out www.ndssa.org sometime.

I was still in diapers during Vietnam And just starting kindergarten when it ended.


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## the_rookie

good to see you in the military farmer you should be very proud of what u r doing...because of you this country is safer in many ways it appears... you should have no shame if you have ever fired that weapon at someone because u r doing it because you r defending ur country


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## farmerj

Thanks,
But the real support needs to go to the ones that are in Iraq and Afghanistan now. I have friends in both places and the familys could really use support.

Support comes in many ways. Being there with a rototiller, blowing their snow, cutting the grass, taking the kids to give the spouse a time away from the kids. The little things that we take for granted.

If you know anyone else in the guard, make an offer sometime. It will be greatly appreciated. I know my wife appreciated the help while I was gone. Nothing makes our time away from home that much easier than to know that the familiy is looked after back home.

http://www.operationwedocare.org/ is one of those groups that help send care packages to the troops and will help the families.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> I wonder just how much candy they gave that kid to hold said sign?


about the same amount they give you to make stupid statements on this board.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

pointer99 said:


> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder just how much candy they gave that kid to hold said sign?
> 
> 
> 
> about the same amount they give you to make stupid statements on this board.
> 
> pointer
Click to expand...

Stupid comments? Do you really think two pictures represent the beliefs of the majority of Iraqis? Take a gander at the polls, where the opinion of the Iraqi people might actually be shown.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> Stupid comments? Do you really think two pictures represent the beliefs of the majority of Iraqis? Take a gander at the polls, where the opinion of the Iraqi people might actually be shown.


post a link to these polls please.

thanks,

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

I'm not going to do the research for you, but I know that they are out there. I have heard the information before but can't remember the source.


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## huntin1

Militant_Tiger said:


> Stupid comments? Do you really think two pictures represent the beliefs of the majority of Iraqis? Take a gander at the polls, where the opinion of the Iraqi people might actually be shown.


M_T, here's a few more, and there are many more out there, do your own research.

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessay ... 504a1.html

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessay ... 004b1.html

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessay ... 604a1.html

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessay ... 405a1.html

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessay ... 005a1.html

http://www.defendamerica.mil/photoessay ... 204a1.html

M_T you must be right, sure looks like every Iraqi hates our guts.

Sorry, you'll have to go to each link to view, I didn't feel like uploading them to my host site.

:sniper:

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

> M_T you must be right, sure looks like every Iraqi hates our guts.


Right you are, only the vast majority. You know if that wasn't a .mil site I could take it a little more seriously. Asking the military how the civilians like us is like asking farmers if we should produce ethenol. Do you really think they would show pictures of people with signs saying get out? That does nothing to support their cause.


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## Plainsman

I have talked with more than two dozen soldiers who have returned from Iraq. Every one of them tells of the good things they did for the people of Iraq, and how people stop them on the street and thank them. We don't see that in the media. These soldiers were common people like you and I. There were body repairmen, carpenters, computer programmers, people without a cause other than helping people and defending America. I think the media must have a cause, because they don't show us those things. Why?


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## Militant_Tiger

Plainsman said:


> I have talked with more than two dozen soldiers who have returned from Iraq. Every one of them tells of the good things they did for the people of Iraq, and how people stop them on the street and thank them. We don't see that in the media. These soldiers were common people like you and I. There were body repairmen, carpenters, computer programmers, people without a cause other than helping people and defending America. I think the media must have a cause, because they don't show us those things. Why?


You still think that a few people represent the majority. That is probably the root of many problems in our society as well. It is good that those people who you talked to were in hospitable enviornments. If however you would like to see the opinion of the majority of Iraqis look up the polls.


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## njsimonson

You guys ever heard of photoshop!?! 










With the internet, believe NOTHING you see and 1/18th of what you read. As my old roommate used to say...oh, good point, and you back it up so well with all the authenticity that is the internet. 

And by the way, I know my photoshopping sucks.


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## Militant_Tiger

Hilarious. Reminds me of the picture of a kid in Iraq several years ago holding a cardboard box that people replaced the writing on.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> I'm not going to do the research for you, but I know that they are out there. I have heard the information before but can't remember the source.


translation into american.......you can't do it. hehehe.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

> translation into american.......you can't do it. hehehe.


It's fine, I wouldn't spend my time looking for something to prove myself wrong either.


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## Plainsman

I don't think you understand MT the ball is in your park. You may not know, but when you publish something the author is expected to provide the reference. It is much easier for one person (author) to give a reference than a thousand readers each spend an afternoon looking for references. It would be sort of like turning on CBS, they give you a statement, then say find out if it is true for yourself. Also, it is possible that pointer would be wasting his time trying to prove a negative for you.


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## Militant_Tiger

Fine I found some myself, unfortunately not the more recent ones. They still hold the same message. If someone does find the newer one don't be shy about posting it.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ ... CFB0F9.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq ... over_x.htm
http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cf ... 20Reported (Not sure about the veracity of this source)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223494/
http://www.detnews.com/2004/nation/0404 ... 137477.htm
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1112615.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0114-28.htm


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## Plainsman

I question the veracity of our American news sources, and you want me to believe Aljazeera? That's ludicrous. They love to show beheadings, and anything anti American that they can. I guess most news sources are operating that way so Aljazeera isn't that different from, from, from, --- Dan Rather.

My real question is why is the news so different from what we hear when talking with people who have been there?


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## Militant_Tiger

Perhaps because those who have been there have "money" riding on whether it was just for us to be there in the first place. This is a lot like your example of it being ridiculous to ask a corn farmer whether we should use ethenol as an alternative fuel. As for Al-Jazeera, I thought that I would give some sources from those who live there as well. Take that one with a grain of salt as you please, you have many others to dispute the veracity of.


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## Plainsman

I already did that. I even questioned the veracity of American networks, Dan Rather in particular.

I don't think students, carpenters, and common people here in North Dakota have money riding on the Iraq war. Statements like that is what makes us refer to you spewing crap. We don't say that as simple ridicule. Take it as constructive criticism. I say this because 99 percent of people would think that you eluding to soldiers having money riding on the Iraq war is very radical. It casts innocent people in a bad light. You could just as well call our soldiers murderers for money, out nation corrupt, and the good people of North Dakota the same. Poor MT, you should actually think about what you way.


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## Militant_Tiger

> I don't think students, carpenters, and common people here in North Dakota have money riding on the Iraq war. Statements like that is what makes us refer to you spewing crap. We don't say that as simple ridicule. Take it as constructive criticism. I say this because 99 percent of people would think that you eluding to soldiers having money riding on the Iraq war is very radical. It casts innocent people in a bad light. You could just as well call our soldiers murderers for money, out nation corrupt, and the good people of North Dakota the same. Poor MT, you should actually think about what you way.


Man and you say I interpret things poorly... Money was in quotations because it was a metaphor. I did not actually mean that there was a corruption in the system (at least not here) else money would have been out of quotations. What I meant was that they had a strong enough belief in the first place to go fight (which also likely means that they cannot be talked out of their views) and fought and possibly lost friends in Iraq. To say that it was all for naught would seem like a great injustice if one had lost a friend over there, which is exactly what the polls say. Because of their base belief that took them there, and the losses that they may have encountered, they would likely say that our occupation was just whether it was or was not.


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## Plainsman

We interpret that way because you make those type of statements. You have many times explained your metaphors. Anyone with any sense would have given up on metaphors that are misinterpreted that often. I'm not sure why you use them so often , perhaps to leave yourself an out. I can't remember all the times you have said it was just a metaphor. You had the audacity to explain a metaphor to me, remember? Learn to say what you mean or expect more misinterpretation. We look at what you say, what you have said in the past, and what we perceive you to believe. You have many times said we are only there for the oil. That is saying that our president, our military, our nation are all corrupt. It fit your MO. I don't see you as left or right, I see you simply as radical.

I'm not angry at you MT, I'm embarassed for you.


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## farmerj

Militant_Tiger said:


> I don't think students, carpenters, and common people here in North Dakota have money riding on the Iraq war. Statements like that is what makes us refer to you spewing crap. We don't say that as simple ridicule. Take it as constructive criticism. I say this because 99 percent of people would think that you eluding to soldiers having money riding on the Iraq war is very radical. It casts innocent people in a bad light. You could just as well call our soldiers murderers for money, out nation corrupt, and the good people of North Dakota the same. Poor MT, you should actually think about what you way.
> 
> 
> 
> Man and you say I interpret things poorly... Money was in quotations because it was a metaphor. I did not actually mean that there was a corruption in the system (at least not here) else money would have been out of quotations. What I meant was that they had a strong enough belief in the first place to go fight (which also likely means that they cannot be talked out of their views) and fought and possibly lost friends in Iraq. To say that it was all for naught would seem like a great injustice if one had lost a friend over there, which is exactly what the polls say. Because of their base belief that took them there, and the losses that they may have encountered, they would likely say that our occupation was just whether it was or was not.
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about?


> What I meant was that they had a strong enough belief in the first place to go fight (which also likely means that they cannot be talked out of their views)


You are an insult to everyone of the soldiers that are over there right now. How would you feel if you had to wonder if national police would come storming your door tonight? or your wife would be raped tomorrow because you are a different ethnic background? Your kids aren't allowed to go to school because you are Lutheran instead of catholic.

As I said ealier....

Your Welcome, 
From the men and women who, in the past and in the future, continue to secure your freedom of speech.

Your current spouting has you so blind to the sacrifice these people so unselfishly make for all of us.

It might do you some good to just spend a day doing volunteer work at a soup kitchen or even spend a day at a nursing home sometime.

Doing this, you will still not even come close to the sacrifice one private makes in his career for the American people.


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## Militant_Tiger

> We interpret that way because you make those type of statements. You have many times explained your metaphors. Anyone with any sense would have given up on metaphors that are misinterpreted that often. I'm not sure why you use them so often , perhaps to leave yourself an out. I can't remember all the times you have said it was just a metaphor. You had the audacity to explain a metaphor to me, remember? Learn to say what you mean or expect more misinterpretation. We look at what you say, what you have said in the past, and what we perceive you to believe. You have many times said we are only there for the oil. That is saying that our president, our military, our nation are all corrupt. It fit your MO. I don't see you as left or right, I see you simply as radical.


If you take a word in quotations as literal it is you who should be back in english class.



> You are an insult to everyone of the soldiers that are over there right now. How would you feel if you had to wonder if national police would come storming your door tonight? or your wife would be raped tomorrow because you are a different ethnic background? Your kids aren't allowed to go to school because you are Lutheran instead of catholic.


Welcome to the rest of the non-free world. Odd that we chose Iraq as our first country for reform, though.



> Your Welcome,
> From the men and women who, in the past and in the future, continue to secure your freedom of speech.


Fighting does not protect my freedom of speech. Fighting someone who threatens it does. To those I say thank you, and I believe in what you fought/are fighting for. To those who have fought in conflicts such as Iraqi Freedom, I say thank you for serving your country as well, I just simply don't agree with the basis of said conflict.



> Your current spouting has you so blind to the sacrifice these people so unselfishly make for all of us.


I really can't stand your mentality. We fought, so obviously it was necissary/reasonable right? With your logic if we invaded France tomorrow it would be a great sacrafice for our freedoms.


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## farmerj

Militant_Tiger said:


> I really can't stand your mentality. We fought, so obviously it was necissary/reasonable right? With your logic if we invaded France tomorrow it would be a great sacrafice for our freedoms.


Concidering that outside of the middle east that they are the largest islamic militant state...

yes it would be.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1204/f ... r_friendly

http://www.dhimmi.com/
http://www.dhimmi.com/TakingCover.htm


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## farmerj

Another source

http://www.puk.org/web/htm/news/nws/news030813.html
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/001191.html


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## farmerj

and even more....

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002549.html
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/002026.html

Maybe the house of Saud should come next....
Or Syria maybe.


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## farmerj

You do not seem to come to realize, like much of the US and world, but...

The attack on America on 9/11 is much the same as the assassination of Arch-Duke Ferdinad was to WW I and the Invasion of Poland was to WW II.

It will be the Christian/Western world against Muslim radicals; OBL, Sadam, Iran, Syria, Palistinians.

These people do not care about your rights, *they simple want you dead*.

What part of that do you NOT understand.

http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html


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## farmerj

I will say it again


farmerj said:


> As I said ealier....
> 
> Your Welcome,
> From the men and women who, in the past and in the future, continue to secure your freedom of speech.
> 
> Your current spouting has you so blind to the sacrifice these people so unselfishly make for all of us.
> 
> It might do you some good to just spend a day doing volunteer work at a soup kitchen or even spend a day at a nursing home sometime.
> 
> Doing this, you will still not even come close to the sacrifice one private makes in his career for the American people.


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## Militant_Tiger

farmerj said:


> You do not seem to come to realize, like much of the US and world, but...
> 
> The attack on America on 9/11 is much the same as the assassination of Arch-Duke Ferdinad was to WW I and the Invasion of Poland was to WW II.
> 
> It will be the Christian/Western world against Muslim radicals; OBL, Sadam, Iran, Syria, Palistinians.
> 
> These people do not care about your rights, *they simple want you dead*.
> 
> What part of that do you NOT understand.
> 
> http://www.masada2000.org/islam.html


So in your above links you have proven that the Jews and Kurds do not like the French, bravo.

How exactly does 9/11 relate to the murder of Franz Ferdinand or the invasion of Poland other than the fact that they were all inciting incidents?



> It will be the Christian/Western world against Muslim radicals; OBL, Sadam, Iran, Syria, Palistinians.


As evident by Saddam's attempted ... or his much feared ... Saddam had no grand scheme to get the Americans, Iran sure does and the Saudis (strangely missing from said list) do as well. Why not them?

You see the part that I don't understand is how muslim = terrorist and fighting = protection of freedoms. Can you explain those to me?


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## farmerj

Who is the "House of Saud"? The Royal Family of Saudia Arabia [/*]
1 comes before 2, which come before? Can we say WW III? I knew you could. What do you need to have this WW III? An "inciting incident". What is 9/11 then? An inciting event.[/*]
What party was the Ruling party in Iraq? Baath, a radical minority islamic group. They ruled with an iron fist and fear. Had no fear of using WMD and slaughtered whole regions and communities.[/*]

If after having read half of the links I provided, and you still need to understand "how muslim = terrorist and fighting = protection of freedoms."

I am on the firm believe that you wish to do nothing more than argue. You are the "devil's advocate" wishing to stir discord.

No matter the facts, you and your kind will never be happy, until the rights you so vehemently cry for, are stripped from you blindly.


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## farmerj

Hey, I'll give it the ole college try to "eplain it one more time" though...

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/miller.htm


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## Militant_Tiger

Code:


I am on the firm believe that you wish to do nothing more than argue. You are the "devil's advocate" wishing to stir discord.

Not at all, I just think that your beliefs upon how these matters should be solved are absurd.



> Who is the "House of Saud"? The Royal Family of Saudia Arabia
> 1 comes before 2, which come before? Can we say WW III? I knew you could. What do you need to have this WW III? An "inciting incident". What is 9/11 then? An inciting event.


Sorry but I didnt pick up what you were trying to lay down there, can you explain it again?



> What party was the Ruling party in Iraq? Baath, a radical minority islamic group. They ruled with an iron fist and fear. Had no fear of using WMD and slaughtered whole regions and communities.


Saddam was a despot, what the hell are you talking about? How can you say that "they" (who is they again) had no fear of using a WMD when they never did, nor was there proof that Saddam even posessed them? As for the slaghture of regions and communities, that was the Kurds. The Kurds joined forces with Iran in the Iraqi-Iranian war. This thus caused them to become the enemy and they were thus killed. Saying that it was a slaughter would be like saying that Bush slaughtered a community if he killed radicals trying to overthrow our government.



> No matter the facts, you and your kind will never be happy, until the rights you so vehemently cry for, are stripped from you blindly.


You mean the rights that you remove from me in the name of fighting terror? As Ben Franklin once said "He who is willing to sacrifice a little freedom for a little security deserves neither". Get with the program.


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## Plainsman

MT

First off MT let me say I think you're an intelligent person. I took over 40 hours of psychology in college and your "money" metaphor was so poor that I am led to believe that it was purposely poor. I think you play juvenile games like this so that you can garner sympathy as poor misunderstood MT. I also think you antagonize people in an attempt to get them to call you names. You feel that you have won if they do. You even attempted to hijack a discussion in the rifle form. As of late we have had some civilized discussion, and I am not willing to throw that away by letting you be disruptive.

By the way I have no idea what the meaning of your PM was. I understood the *bite me *part, but nothing else. I'll give you a metaphor, "your walking on thin ice".


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## Militant_Tiger

> I think you play juvenile games like this so that you can garner sympathy as poor misunderstood MT. I also think you antagonize people in an attempt to get them to call you names. You feel that you have won if they do. You even attempted to hijack a discussion in the rifle form.


Sympathy? What would make you think that I would like your sympathy? Do you really think I would even argue if I wanted sympathy? I do not antagonize people to force them to call me names, it just ends up that way. You see our beliefs are white and black, high and low, left and right, complete opposites upon nearly every issue. I think it is because of how stubborn I am that names begin flying, but I take pride in the fact that I am not the first to sling them. I would feel that I have won if every turbo patriot on these boards agreed with my side, and I feel that I have had no great victory. As to the rifle forum, I have admitted my mistake. An inciting political statement was made, and I retorted. I should have posted another topic to house it, but I did not.

As to the private message, it was in reference to the post where you called me a plant by a liberal organization and a fraud because I used the unusual word "shootist" to discribe the sports I pursue. You basically stated that no real shooter worth a cup of warm spit would never call themselves such a preposterous thing. That link (which I doubt you checked) shows that there is an group who go by the "shootists". The bite me part was put in jest, and I thought about omiting it, but I decided that there had to be some part of you which could understand a joke. I was wrong.


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## Plainsman

I'll chalk it up to very poor judgment. When friends say something like bite me it is in jest. You need to think about who you are saying what to. I don't find your bite me funny at all. You know the old country song that says "I may have been born in the dark, but it wasn't last night"? What I am saying MT is don't try to snow me with you psycho babble. Just so you don't make the same mistake again let me tell you I don't find much of what you say funny. That should help both of us make no further mistakes.

I did look at the site you listed. The shootist comment was so long ago the site made no sense. If you remember that long, plan that much, you should be able to construct better metaphors. I'm not arguing with you anymore MT, drop it.


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## huntin1

I really don't think he can drop anything until everyone agree's that he is right and we are all wrong. :eyeroll:

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

Plainsman said:


> I'll chalk it up to very poor judgment. When friends say something like bite me it is in jest. You need to think about who you are saying what to. I don't find your bite me funny at all. You know the old country song that says "I may have been born in the dark, but it wasn't last night"? What I am saying MT is don't try to snow me with you psycho babble. Just so you don't make the same mistake again let me tell you I don't find much of what you say funny. That should help both of us make no further mistakes.
> 
> I did look at the site you listed. The shootist comment was so long ago the site made no sense. If you remember that long, plan that much, you should be able to construct better metaphors. I'm not arguing with you anymore MT, drop it.


Terribly sorry that you were hurt by such a blunt phrase. I should remember that you were are from a day when people found the word fool offensive. I do like the strategy of talking to me in a fatherly tone, original to say the least. I am also surprised that you would be so offended after tearing into me for my word choice. I suppose I don't get the same rights, being the minority.

The thread about the word in question was 19 days ago. Hardly a vast period of time for someone with as much worldly experience as yourself. I suppose I could have refered you to the site www.shootists.com but I figured that you could pick up on the subtle hints given by the title, the gun with shootist imprinted on the barrel, the five times it is mentioned in the text and caption, or the link at the bottom.


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## Plainsman

Militant_Tigerphrase. I should remember that you were are from a day when people found the word fool offensive. [/quote said:


> Not intending this to be a smart remark at all MT. You need to get off that computer and socialize with real people. I don't know anyone today that wouldn't be deeply offended if you called then a fool. That is one bad thing about all the new technology. People have lost social skills, and manners or mutual respect I guess many have never heard of.


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## mr.trooper

Tigre, take a breath and think about this...

"I suppose I don't get the same rights, being the minority."

-- You see, the problem is, that we OLDE timers believe that when you start trouble, and become a rabble-rouser, you loose the right to be taken seriously. Especialy when you repeat the offence.

its QUITE like the boy who cried wolf, except in this case its the boy who cried "my rights are opressed!". You know the story. You keept raising a rucuss and we all investigated your claims, and you social views. however, after many times of considering you claims, and finding that they dont hold water, we have all started to ignore your social plights.

Time to buy a new record. Your old one is broken. What you need to do is find topic in wich you can express views that you havnt shared before, and do so in a repectible way. This will help to re-build your credibility, and maybee garner enough respect for us to listen to you once again.


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## Militant_Tiger

> -- You see, the problem is, that we OLDE timers believe that when you start trouble, and become a rabble-rouser, you loose the right to be taken seriously. Especialy when you repeat the offence.


However on a liberal board what I say would be the norm, and any of you would be the trouble makers. So you are saying that having a different opinion is making trouble? This would be quite a cruddy country without trouble makers then.



> its QUITE like the boy who cried wolf, except in this case its the boy who cried "my rights are opressed!". You know the story. You keept raising a rucuss and we all investigated your claims, and you social views. however, after many times of considering you claims, and finding that they dont hold water, we have all started to ignore your social plights.


Investigate? I think investigation requires a look at both sides of an issue. I can count more times that Plainsman has said something liberal than anything I have brought up has been investigated. You have a problem with the fact that I say when people's rights are being oppressed (when they are, I wouldn't argue a point if I thought in the end I had a losing claim) even though it does not affect me? Little advancement would be made for rights if everyone argued for themselves.



> Time to buy a new record. Your old one is broken. What you need to do is find topic in wich you can express views that you havnt shared before, and do so in a repectible way. This will help to re-build your credibility, and maybee garner enough respect for us to listen to you once again.


I thought one of the qualities you admired was perseverence and sticking to your beliefs, after all that is one of the things that you all liked so much about Bush and hated about Kerry, right? I don't believe that you have changed your opinions on any topic during the time that you have been on these boards. Does this too mean that you are a broken record?



> Not intending this to be a smart remark at all MT. You need to get off that computer and socialize with real people.


The irony of this kills me. I read this post with my friend Tim, we both cracked up.


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## Plainsman

Militant wrote:



> So you are saying that having a different opinion is making trouble?


No not at all. What we don't like is your abrasive attitude. We also spoke of manners. Do you really think you can convince any of us that you don't purposely insight people. Look all the way back to your first posts. You have argued about rifles, politics, and other subjects. The funny thing is you got on and said you had just purchased a Ruger 10/22 and asked questions about ammo. Two days later you were arguing because you thought you were the expert. This attitude my children grew out of at six years old.



> I can count more times that Plainsman has said something liberal than anything I have brought up has been investigated.


Please clarify, I don't understand what you are saying.

MT, I see your purpose on the political form not to debate or discuss, but simply to disrupt so that none of the rest of us can discuss our concerns. Every post turns into a bickering match, and it gets that way because of you. I don't think you want serious debate, because you don't want others to hear what conservatives have to say.

For an example of a thoughtful liberal look at Bigdaddy's post. We may not see things the same, but it is a pleasure talking with someone who is politite and by his language speaks from the heart. He is liberal, but I admire him.


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## mr.trooper

Militant_Tiger said:


> I thought one of the qualities you admired was perseverence and sticking to your beliefs, after all that is one of the things that you all liked so much about Bush and hated about Kerry, right? I don't believe that you have changed your opinions on any topic during the time that you have been on these boards. Does this too mean that you are a broken record?


I grow quite Taxed of speaking to someone who is unable to comprehend simple analogies. I never told you to abandon your beliefs. i told you to share your views in a respectible way so that people might actualy listen to you. your responce? Another Abrasive quip to with you obviously gave no thought. Thats what has to change Tigre. The reason people on the board treat you like they do isnt because your Liberal. far from it. Big Daddy is a perfect example of a REASONABLE liberal. Its your ATITUDE that make eveoyone blow you off.

Id sugest clearing up this problem soon. Youl find that it wont fly verry far when your out in the "Real world". If you Boss tells youto do something a different way, and that your wrong, i should hope you dont give him the sassy back-talk that you spout on this forums, or youl be out on your butt with no Job.

now i realize you WOLDNT do that to your boss...but id suspect it would only be out of fear for the consiquesnces. if there were none, id suspect that youd mouth off to eveoryone you meet.

AM I WRONG??? PROVE ME WRONG by acting like a respectible person!


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## huntin1

Militant_Tiger said:


> I thought one of the qualities you admired was perseverence and sticking to your beliefs, after all that is one of the things that you all liked so much about Bush and hated about Kerry, right? I don't believe that you have changed your opinions on any topic during the time that you have been on these boards. Does this too mean that you are a broken record?


The problem with this statement is that you seem to be saying here that Kerry stuck to his beliefs, when in fact he flip-flopped on every issue. It's very well documented in articles and in the way that he voted on important issues. I'm still not sure what Kerry's true beliefs are, or what he stands for, other than he's a liberal democrat, and an extremely wealthy one at that.

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

> No not at all. What we don't like is your abrasive attitude. We also spoke of manners. Do you really think you can convince any of us that you don't purposely insight people. Look all the way back to your first posts. You have argued about rifles, politics, and other subjects. The funny thing is you got on and said you had just purchased a Ruger 10/22 and asked questions about ammo. Two days later you were arguing because you thought you were the expert. This attitude my children grew out of at six years old.


I asked my question at rimfirecentral, and got all the answers I needed. The people on this board however spoke out of complete ignorance, and still to this day cannot figure out why it is OK to use a stinger in a sporter chamber.



> MT, I see your purpose on the political form not to debate or discuss, but simply to disrupt so that none of the rest of us can discuss our concerns. Every post turns into a bickering match, and it gets that way because of you. I don't think you want serious debate, because you don't want others to hear what conservatives have to say.


If by discuss your concerns you mean pat each other on the butt about how great the current administration is, yes I am here to disrupt. I have a differing opinion, that is why things get out of hand. I guess you can't seem to figure out that if you have a room full of like minded people everyone will agree, and otherwise there will be some ruffled feathers. I seriously debate each topic I post in. I use logic and fact to fight for my side, and it seems that it is not taken to heart often. I don't want to hear what conservatives have to say? Do you want to hear what liberals have to say? Any of you?



> For an example of a thoughtful liberal look at Bigdaddy's post. We may not see things the same, but it is a pleasure talking with someone who is politite and by his language speaks from the heart. He is liberal, but I admire him.


If by thoughtful liberal you mean moderate, I am no such thing, nor will I ever be. I agree with but one of the conservative issues, gun control. For everything else I am full liberal. I have realized that no one here wants to hear a point that goes directly against what they believe, which is often what I say.



> Time to buy a new record. Your old one is broken. What you need to do is find topic in wich you can express views that you havnt shared before





> I never told you to abandon your beliefs.


Flip flop anyone?



> Big Daddy is a perfect example of a REASONABLE liberal.


Again, a moderate liberal. That is not what I am, do not expect me to be.



> The problem with this statement is that you seem to be saying here that Kerry stuck to his beliefs, when in fact he flip-flopped on every issue. It's very well documented in articles and in the way that he voted on important issues. I'm still not sure what Kerry's true beliefs are, or what he stands for, other than he's a liberal democrat, and an extremely wealthy one at that.


You missed what I was getting at, if the way I wrote it was misleading I apologize. I was not pointing out that Kerry did or did not do anything. I was rather saying that Trooper admires someone who sticks to their guns, and yet told me that my ideas are a broken record, which need to be changed.

I suppose I am a bit abrasive, and I will try to work on it. It is rather hard to do however when it seems that if you are not rude and rough with the way you put things, they are shot down as a "classic liberal mentality". I will attempt to give more respect, and listen to all of your ideas, however in return I expect the same. Moreso that my ideas will be listened to, and given some thought as opposed to being tossed out.


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## Plainsman

Glad to hear it MT. As for a need to be rude and rough, that doesn't work well when talking to adults. I think you will find people are willing to give you more respect when you give it to them. I have little doubt people will give you more respect if you show some.

Read some on behavioral science. I would recommend body language. You will find that even a third grade dropout will pick up on condescension through your words and expression. They don't need to be an english major or a professional in communications to pick up on your feelings towards them. Once know it all attitude shows, you have shut of their receptiveness.

As for people listening to you, that depends on what you have to say. I for one will listen, and at times may be impressed. I am not so sure I will be influenced, because I think you are the left fringe that Bigdaddy defined and most agreed with. The only time you will have influence is on a very far left liberal site. You have come to a sportsman form and expected the same reception. You shouldn't be surprised that people disagree with you. I would guess I would be treated very rudely on a liberal site. If I wanted their respect I certainly wouldn't call them an idiot and say bite me.

The Ruger 10/22 was simply an example. If I remember right I told you that if you are going to shoot Stingers in it them you better get a Brownell's catalogue and order a recoil buffer. If you shoot much you will eventually crack you frame. You are still wrong about the Stinger. You just don't have enough experience to know it yet. After you wreck your rifle you will understand.


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## Militant_Tiger

> The Ruger 10/22 was simply an example. If I remember right I told you that if you are going to shoot Stingers in it them you better get a Brownell's catalogue and order a recoil buffer. If you shoot much you will eventually crack you frame. You are still wrong about the Stinger. You just don't have enough experience to know it yet. After you wreck your rifle you will understand.


To my knowledge no one has suffered a cracked 10/22 reciever from stingers. I have heard of a few cases with the similar but higher powered "Super Maximums" by aguila though.



> If I wanted their respect I certainly wouldn't call them an idiot and say bite me.


Oh please I had a smiley face after it. If you take everything for face value you will live quite a sad life.



> The only time you will have influence is on a very far left liberal site.


Not at all, I would have no influence on a liberal site, I would only talk to those who already agreed with me. I have more influence on this site than on any other.



> You have come to a sportsman form and expected the same reception


.

I am too a sporstman, and I have expected no reception at all.


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## the_rookie

:eyeroll: :withstupid:


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## mr.trooper

"What you need to do is find topic a in wich you can express your views"

In other words, express your views. i flat out said express your views. HOW IS THAT A FLIP FLOP!?!?

the broken record comment was in reference to your attitude, and your argumentative approach, not your political beliefs. Thats what tis whole thing is about, YOUR ATTITUDE. its nothing to do with your political affilitaion. I know you want to pretend thats why we are down on you, but its quite the contrary.

Alwase trying to play the victim, just knock it off and have a little respect. :roll:


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## Militant_Tiger

> "What you need to do is find topic a in wich you can express your views"
> 
> In other words, express your views. i flat out said express your views. HOW IS THAT A FLIP FLOP!?!?


You just took that out of context. If that was the only point you were trying to make you should have left out the part where you said that my ideas were old and that I needed new ones.



> Alwase trying to play the victim, just knock it off and have a little respect.


I don't play the victim, I just fight for them.


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## mr.trooper

how verry Noble of you...

Now, i dont think it takes the English police to realize that i never said anything about you changing your views, or altering your beliefs. Your entitled to them just like anyone else. As i have stated, the record analogy, along with the others, were dirrected at your poor attitude and presentation, and NOT your political views. (P.S- if you want to get technical, the analogies were seperated by periods, and are thus complete and seperate thoughts, as no following sentences reffered back to them :wink: )

Again, i grow taxed of arguing (thats all you ever actualy do; argue...) with an opponent who is incabable of understanding simple speech paterns.

Good night. Try to get a good nights sleep tonight, and maybee your head will be a littl more clear for tomarows inevitable bought :roll: i know im looking forward to hitting the Hay.

Good night Y'all.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Time to buy a new record. Your old one is broken. What you need to do is find topic in wich you can express views that you havnt shared before





> Now, i dont think it takes the English police to realize that i never said anything about you changing your views, or altering your beliefs. Your entitled to them just like anyone else.


As it was once said, the proof is in the puddin'.



> Again, i grow taxed of arguing (thats all you ever actualy do; argue...) with an opponent who is incabable of understanding simple speech paterns.


Which two things did you compare exactly, that I evidently missed? What else did you mean exactly by "views that you havent shared before"? That is quite a grand statment from you to say that I don't have a grasp upon the english language. If by argue you mean not agree with your points, yes that is all I ever do.


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## mr.trooper

Aparently you dont.

"views you havnt shared before." quite right. views THAT YOU CURRENTLY HOLD that you havnt shared before. you aparently DONT have any grasp of English. i told you to share views you havnt shared yet. i didnt tell you to get new ones. :roll:

i dont remember hearing your views on Social Security. i dont remember hearing your views on whether or not the media should be held accountable for the factuality of their statements, SO ON AND SO FORTH.

Once again, this is a verry simple concept, and im amazed that you cant see this.

Let me re-word this in a way you can comprehend:

LETS FIND NEW SUBJECTS TO TALK ABOUT, as opposed to the same old same old.

Is that a little more clear? Do you understand? or are you still confused?

AND BY ARGUE I MEAN ARGUE! JUST LIKE NOW YOU WANT TO ARGUE OVER WHAT I MEANT BY INVITING DISCUSSION ON SOME NEW SUBJECT MATTER!!!

GRRRR, IM TRYING TO BE CIVIL AND REACH ACROS PARTY LINES ON THIS, AND ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS ARGUE!


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## Militant_Tiger

> i dont remember hearing your views on Social Security. i dont remember hearing your views on whether or not the media should be held accountable for the factuality of their statements, SO ON AND SO FORTH.


I have had my say on every topic that I have some knowledge about. I suppose this was more of a communication error than anything. I know that I have shared all my views, and you asked me to share new ones, so I took it as meaning that you wanted my views to change.



> AND BY ARGUE I MEAN ARGUE! JUST LIKE NOW YOU WANT TO ARGUE OVER WHAT I MEANT BY INVITING DISCUSSION ON SOME NEW SUBJECT MATTER!!!


No, I just wanted to know exactly what you meant. I now know what you were getting at, problem solved. No reason to have a stroke.



> GRRRR, IM TRYING TO BE CIVIL AND REACH ACROS PARTY LINES ON THIS, AND ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS ARGUE!


I liked what Lewis Black said on the Daily show "The conservatives, reaching across the table to punch you in the sack" :lol:


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## mr.trooper

Alright. Id rather not have a hurnia over this. i may be older than you, but im not THAT old!

Reaching across the table to punch you n the sack! thats great! :lol: verry indicative of traditional politics!


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## DJRooster

Strange Dude, he left Pembina when the pheasant hunting went to hell!!!


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