# The wrong call ?



## ryan1719 (May 5, 2009)

Wondering if anyone here hunts coyotes in the NE part of the state and what you use to call them in. My hunting partner and I are true beginners to this sport and believe we've done our best to prepare (full camo, scent remover, covering scents, knowledge of wind direction, shade/backdrop, reading predator magazines, watching dvd's, etc.). We carry electronic and mouth calls using a rabbit distress sound. However, this past weekend in your fine state, it dawned on us (too late perhaps) we were not seeing any rabbits in the area. Is it possible (or just obvious) that these coyotes have no idea what they are hearing and therefore will not respond ??? Any thoughts ? Different distress cry? We'd come up from the Twin Cities to my family homestead near Adams ... 2 days, 12 stands, 0 coyotes. Many hours of road hunting ... 1 coyote. We understand (and have been told) they're there - definately there.
Is it possible we're using the wrong call ? 
Appreciate any assistance,
Thank you,
The Beginners


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## Sask hunter (Sep 11, 2008)

I have called coyotes in in SK with a woodpecker distress in the winter and there is no woodpeckers even close. So with that said i think coyotes hear something dying and come in because there hungry i don't think it matters if it is a cottontail or a fawn etc. Also if you want you could use fawn in distrees if you feel you must change.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

gauarenteed they know the sound of a rabbit. keep trying,one day your time will come and it will be awesome.lots of variables. they have most likely been called to all winter and may be call shy. wait till fall when the young of the year are hunting on there own and then go :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

thier curiosity will bring them to it. I have made some god awful noises and had them come on a run. Didn't sound like any dying animalTry different weather, time of day. different wind direction. Main thing just keep trying. I would think the females should be nursing pups, and need to eat


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

well I know that there has been a lot of hunters running in the Adam's area. Several from Wisconsin, and MN using large groups of people and doing pushes and also a group using grey hounds. Which way from Adam's, I may have another explanation.

They know what a rabbit sounds like, trust me. 
xdeano


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

You are hunting a tough time of year. Coyotes are denned up having their pups and not roaming as much. In my opinion your best bet will be coyote vocalizations to try and get a territorial response, that's just my opinion of what to try. And if it makes you feel any better, I have been calling and shooting coyotes for almost 18 years and kill a couple hundred every year and the hardest one to get is the first one! After that the rest are easy, ha ha.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

xdeano said:


> Several from Wisconsin, and MN using large groups of people and doing pushes
> xdeano


'
I HATE this! :******:

Getting to be all to common, morons from Indiana and Iowa doing that stuff down here. Nine guys in 5 pickups all armed with AR's driving through sections chasing everything out of cover, coyotes, deer, pheasants, etc etc etc. Our wildlife doesn't need that added stress in winter months.

Id like to catch em, strip em naked and chase them around a wintery section for a few hours.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I feel the same way barebackjack!



> I have been calling and shooting coyotes for almost 18 years and kill a couple hundred every year


I'm going to have to call BS on this one. I don't know many people that can go out and call in a couple hundred in a years time. The only way to take a couple hundred in a season is to call, snare and trap all together and even then some years it's hard.

xdeano


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

I agree with you both and I am from MN and I deal with it every year, all year long.

I have walked out of stands only to look around and find the section I am in "surrounded". Not to mention unsafe. There was a group of guys(retired Mayo clinic doctors...should know better)and they were pushing a strip of woods maybe 150yards wide by 1/2 mile long and one radios the other and "says just rip one down in there and see if we can get one going" so the guy does. Nothing comes out so the same guy says "hammer down in there again" so the other does at whch time the first guys comes on and says "You just shot me you SOB!" True story! I know the guy who got shot personally and went to HS with his kid.

.243 round passed all the way thru the woods and clipped him on the left shin and tore thru his right calf muscle. Dumba$$ asked for it!!!

I hope for god sake that when I come up to ND with 1 other guy and one truck and make 50-75 stands, that I dont get lumped in with that crowd.

Between locals running round shooting them off sleds and NRs from different states with 5 trucks and ARs, they all deserve to lose their privileges. Not trying to stir the pot with the R-vs-NR thing. Just experienced both and both are wrong, I dont care what color your license plate is. :******:

Jaybic

Jaybic


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

Xdeano;

If you could hunt Sask the you would see the amount of dogs here. Do a little research before you shoot your mouth off, and make yourself sound... well you get the idea.


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## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

xdeano said:


> I feel the same way barebackjack!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree with ya xdeano, I know some adc trappers that don't even put those kind of numbers up, and they hunt year around and do denning work.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Lots of good comments on here and I agree with most of them: the crap of the people pushing in large groups with vehicles, the guy deserving getting shot in the leg, and even the BS on the large numbers killed each year.

Anyway, if you shoot that many a year you are bound to take a photo of it. If you can prove us wrong we will eat the crow! :beer:


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

I agree.

A couple hundred a year (called) is flat out AMAZING!

Heck, a couple hundred trapped, snared AND shot is amazing!

Heck, 50 a year called and shot is DAMN GOOD!

I dont care how many dogs are in the area, we have plenty here too. You must not have any coyote hunters in the whole province to make that even feasible.


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

It actually worked out quite good with the guy getting shot BTW. His wife locked up all his guns and his buddy that shot him wont even pick up a gun now so they kinda quit hunting and they were some of the ring-leaders of that group. It is some of the same land the I compete to hunt so in their absence, better calling chances for me and they hunted 5-7 days a week from Dec to late Feb.

It was all spot and stalk, or spot and surround or pushing. They didnt call.

Sorry about the tangent this thread took BTW.

Jaybic


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

Have never heard of anyone hunting calling around here. And I hunt solid for about 90 days, excluding high wind days. I pulled up my book and two of us killed 204 coyotes, called in 316. I know one guy who consistently calls and kills 300+ every year. I have seen him shoot and that is the reason. In our area you very seldom call a single, mostly doubles with triples being very common. We called 3 5's last year. Surprisingly you we didn't call in one quad last year. You actually need to see the amount of coyotes to really fathom what I am telling you. I moved from Manitoba to Saskatchewan for the geese and the coyotes. Still don't believe, call Saskatchewan Environment. There are 75 coyote "managers" in the province hired under a private agency and that doesn't include the provincially employed trappers and hunters. If you google Outlook, Saskatchewan you should be able to find an article about the coyote populations that was in The Star Phoenix. We have virtually no mange and no rabies here with hundred upon hundreds of deer, and not very many people. Prime conditions for a predator. And I have been doing this awhile. The first 5 years was frustrating as hell. I don't think I killed 50 coyotes those first 5 or so years. Learn your area. You don't put up big numbers by being a weekend warrior. This stuff takes practice. You can but all the guns, calls and camo, but you need to out there learning from your mistakes. I am not going to sit here and argue my numbers, I know how many I call in. You asked a question and no one else gave you an answer.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

bet this kid will never ask advice again. :roll:


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

I've never hunted in the Lucky Lake area per se but I've hunted mule deer about an hour or so southwest of there, south of Beechy, for several years.

Boys, there are a lot of yotes around there so if Snowgooser says he hunts 90 days a year and kills 200 a year with a partner, I think it's quite possible. Like he says, there's lots of ranch land and cattle, few people and much wildlife -- the perfect combination for coyotes.

BTW Snowgooser, was the guy you know who got 300 named Ian by chance? I attended a predator seminar he conducted for the Saskatchewan Wildlife Federation a couple years ago. Bumped into him year before last near Lake Dief. south of Beechy. He was doing some beaver control for the rancher on whose land we hunt. Next afternoon, he toured me around so we looked for an elk herd.

As for those who don't believe Snowgooser, he does live at LUCKY Lake, after all. :lol:


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## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

I don't want to call anyone out, maybe it is possible, its just something I would have to see to believe. :beer:


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Fallguy said:


> Anyway, if you shoot that many a year you are bound to take a photo of it. If you can prove us wrong we will eat the crow! :beer:


Crow makes some tasty vittles if prepared right. Ive had it on numerous occasions. :beer:


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks Saskcoyotes. The guy I know is Scott. He is out of Riverhurst and hunts from there to Chaplin. One of my guides works for the government catching deer down from Sask landing to Beechy, and he tells me there so many coyotes in the Matador that the mule deer fawn death rate was pushing 90% on the fawns they tagged. Its on my list of places to get to, but I never seem to venture that far south.


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

Hopefully that shows up. That was New Years Eve. Out and made two sets and called in 5. One lived to tell the tale. I have at least one picture of some pelts on my other computer and when I get to it I will upload. I think the topic of this forum was calling coyotes this time of year. I a sure Ryan would appreciate some input.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

wow you guys must have a lot of time on your hands, I typed that post before work and I just got home to see if there was a reply from Snowgooser, and there were tons of posts.

Oh, by the way Snowgooser, I don't run my mouth, I call it as I see it. If you're calling and putting that much fur on the ground, there's two ways I see it, either you're blowing smoke or you have coyotes stacked on top of each other. I'd definitely have to see it to believe it.

It would be some kind of amazing to have that many stupid coyotes in any area.

xdeano


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## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

xdeano said:


> It would be some kind of amazing to have that many stupid coyotes in any area.
> 
> xdeano


 :beer:


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yo, xdeano: Some time back, I discounted the claim about shooting coyotes from long distances -- 600 yards, 800 yards and beyond. While I agreed it could be done, I maintained it couldn't be done consistently.

Both you and Plainsman provided evidence it could be done consistently -- although not by a large number of people -- if one had the right equipment under the right conditions. I believe both you and Plainsman can consistently do it and you presented a convincing case such that I changed my opinion.

The same goes for Snowgooser. He does live in a part of Saskatchewan (near the South Saskatchewan River/Lake Diefenbaker) which has the right conditions. I've called and shot coyotes there while mule deer hunting and would love to get back there on a 'coyotes only' hunt.

In Snowgooser's area, there are lots of coyotes and few hunters. As for the 200 coyotes in 90 days, the numbers are quite believable. That works out to about 2.22 coyotes per day of hunting. This past year, I had a tough year and got only 1.75 coyotes per day of hunting. The few years before that I average 2.0 coyotes for each day so getting 2.22 per day in a 'Coyote Heaven' like the area Snowgooser hunts shouldn't be impossible, especially when shooting with a partner.

So, while it may seem difficult for you to believe about 200 coyotes -- just as I found it difficult to believe in the consistency of 800 yard shots -- it certainly could be done in special circumstances -- not by many people but it can be done nevertheless.

Snowgooser, I'm hoping to get back to Beechy for another hunt this fall and I hope to help thin out some of those coyotes, especially in the areas where they seem to be stacked on top each other.

:beer: Saskcoyote


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Well even if we convinced you that long range coyotes are possible, they definitely are not the every day norm. That just gives you a baseline of what kind of coyotes we have around here, if we have to reach out that far for a coyote, it means that there is extreme pressure. I personally haven't taken anything much past the 700 yard range.

I'm not doubting that anyone can put down dogs, ok i am a little bit, but to have that many days that are nice enough to call in or to have that target rich of an environment is insane. The reason I say this is if you had that many predators in an area, there would no longer be any prey species to sustain the predator population, leaving mother nature to take over. I don't know what the happy medium is but dang. I guess i'm skeptical because ever where I've ever hunted coyotes in the USA have been spooky, except the SW they are a bit less skittish and come in well.

I'd love to come up there and call, but as far as I know US citizens can't hunt furbears in Canada, or maybe that was just Saskatchewan, I looked into coming up there a few years ago to call in red fox when there was a huge boom of them up there. I talked with the government up there and they said no. It may have changed from that time, that was in about 2002 or so.

I guess I'd hate to be a cattle producer in that area, you'd get your A## handed to you. They wouldn't have a chance.

Good discussion guys, even tough we were a bit off topic.  Ryan, right now isn't the greatest time to be calling coyotes unless you're doing control work, pelts are awful and the females are with pups most of the day in the hole, so you'll just be dealing with males or babysitters in an area. Like I said earlier that area got hit pretty hard during the winter. I believe there might have been some ADC work being performed up there also. Good luck. They will move back in from other areas again, but it'll take a month or so.

xdeano


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

bbj: If you have some crow recipes, send me a few. I've eaten plenty of them birds over the years and they still don't taste worth a hoot.

xdeano: You're right, Saskatchewan doesn't allow non-resident coyote hunters here. We had a discussion on this forum a few months back about this. Apparently, the reason was that non-resident hunters (Americans and out-of-province Canadians) who were restricted to certain areas for deer hunting would go into 'off-limit' areas and use coyote permits when they were actually hunting deer. So the province decided to shut down the practise. I guess it's good for guys like Snowgooser and I but it's really too bad our province couldn't come up with a law that would allow Americans in to hunt after the deer season was closed.

Snowgooser, I live about 20 minutes from the Qu'Appelle Valley and I'm familiar with the south side of Lake D between Chaplin and Riverhurst. I lived in Speedy Creek for a couple years. The south side is bad-*** rough country. The north side where we hunt -- east of Sask Landing and east of the Matador -- is less rugged.

I hunt an area in the Qu'Appelle on a rancher's land. He let me on the first time I asked because he lost 17 calves to coyotes the spring before so when you talk about the Matador depredation I can see the problem coyotes would cause.

Anyway, I'm out of here -- supper bell just got rung. Good hunting.

:beer: Saskcoyote

hunt deer under the guise of use coyote tags


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## Sask hunter (Sep 11, 2008)

Snowgooser said:


> Xdeano;
> 
> If you could hunt Sask the you would see the amount of dogs here. Do a little research before you shoot your mouth off, and make yourself sound... well you get the idea.


I went out deer hunting miday oct. last yr to do some jumping and ended up seeing 13 coyotes


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

To the original post...Don't worry about there being any rabbits around. Coyotes that I have known will come to any distress sound. There are no baby porcupines or moose calves around Rochester, MN, but a few coyotes have given up their pelts trying to find them there 8) Most callers wrap it up by March for various reasons, you might want to as well. It seems the most fun doing the calling when the pelts are prime, and when there are more coyotes out there to call to. The coyote numbers are at their lowest this time of the year, and the ones still wearing a pelt share a higher composite GPA. You will score next season. Use your time now to scout out calling areas, and get permission. Like Snowgooser said, the first one is the hard one.....

Speaking of Snowgooser, this caller will not be calling BS. I have had the pleasure of hunting Sask (the last year it was open), and there are many coyotes to be called. Besides, (and at the risk of sounding arrogant) my partner and I have called in and shot 24 in a week during a US hunt. Yes, we saw others that we missed as well, or never got shots at, and the number should have been higher. Now if we can do that in one week, a guy or two who do this all the time (and are bound to get quite good at it), surely can do what Snowgooser has stated. :beer:


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Testosterone and moly cause problems.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

?? :roll:

Please don't eat lead paint.

xdeano


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

xdeano said:


> ?? :roll:
> 
> Please don't eat lead paint.
> 
> xdeano


Some of us teethed on lead paint.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

yeah i'm sure I chewed on my fare share too. 
xdeano


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Ok well I've been doing some thinking about this post since it was first posted about the 200 coyotes in 90 Days by Snowgooser. I just can get over it. I took a look at the Lucky Lake area on Google Earth, it looks decent around the lake as far as terrain, in fact it looks very similar to the western part of ND with the badlands breaks area.

So I decided to give a few people a call. I figured that I know a few ADC guys out in Montana that call and shoot a fair amount of coyotes in a season. I picked Montana because it was directly below the area that the 200 number came from.

The two guys over there said "no way". 
Now these are guys that do this for a living, they have been doing this for many years and know exactly where the animals are. The one guy said he comes close to that in a YEARS time and the other said that he is right in that 200 to 225 in a YEARS time. That is a lot of coyotes. But they cover a lot of area, and only work ground that has coyote numbers.

And we all now that you guys have some of the nastiest weather up there, as far as cold, snow and wind wind wind, and during a 90 day stretch I have a pretty fair guess that it isn't to much off what we have here in ND, I know there are several days that you can't get out. So even given that you can't get out every day say 5 days a week on a good week. I still have a hard time with this.

The coyotes up there are no different than they are around here, same behaviors. The only explanation that I have is you must be killing a lot of pups early on in the year while they're still dumb as a rock.

But If you're consistently killing 200 in 90 day, all I can say is nice job. 

xdeano


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

Actually we kill more adults early, and then get into the pups after deer season is over. Luck Lake is ok to call on but the wind sucks. One of my best spots in a sheep farm directly on the north side of the lake, its barely even fair! I have two spots on the lake that I call, but that is only in good conditions. what you can't see on google earth is the elevations north of the lake. The Coteau hills as they are called. Its rough country that is mostly cattle pasture. It kind of resembles the South Dakota badlands. You get down in those coulees and the wind becomes less of a factor. And if you don't call like a mad man you can make a short move to your next spot. I can usually make 8 stands in a 4 hour stretch. I am not getting into this again, but you asked guys who have never been anywhere near Saskatchewan hunting or trapping coyotes. My old fur buyer in Manitoba averaged 300-400 in snares over a winter. I heard a rumor and its only a rumor I heard that there are two guys down in the gopher country of Saskatchewan that call and trap over 500 a winter. I thought that was crazy until I came out here and saw for myself. 
I wish I could remember the town I got fuel at in North Dakota last winter. The gas station guy told me they were crawling with coyotes and that 4 local guys had killed 54 on a long weekend. He showed me a picture with the two half tons loaded with coyotes. I was either between South Dakota and Fargo or Fargo and Grand Forks. I am in county that you can go for miles and miles and not even hit a road. The only coyotes that get killed are on the road or by deer hunters shooting one from the road. There is so much food, and coyotes are the top predator. As I stated in a previous post one of my very good friends and hunting partners was one of 6 people collaring mule deer fawns for a mortality rate study and out of 110 collared 12 survived the first month. And before you come back saying that there aren't that many mule deer, there is. We had two years of unlimited mule deer tags to try and cull the herds, which didn't accomplish much. 
It makes no real difference to me if you believe me or not. I know how many we killed, the game wardens where I pay my royalties, and so does NAFA.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Snowgooser said:


> I wish I could remember the town I got fuel at in North Dakota last winter. The gas station guy told me they were crawling with coyotes and that 4 local guys had killed 54 on a long weekend. He showed me a picture with the two half tons loaded with coyotes. I was either between South Dakota and Fargo or Fargo and Grand Forks.


If they were claiming they were called im throwing the BS flag big time. Heck, even if they were sledded that is ALOT for a "long weekend".

Or, those half tons were loaded with coyotes were the result of a entire winters worth of shooting.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I'll second that barebackjack.

I've hunted that entire area between the SD line to the Canadian line, there is better calling to the west for sure.

I'd have to say that the only way to get those kinds of numbers is do what they use to do back in the day, aerial hunting.

I'm going to fold on this pissing match! I'm tired of it.

xdeano


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

WOW did this thread get off track. i won't come out and say snowgooser is b-sing. it sounds very imprpobable but it is possible.. i shot just shy of 200 red fox in about 92. most were shot stalking,some from the road and a few calling. few people believe me either.last july 1st. the wife and i cought 12 walleyes over 27 inches. in 1 day,. than on the 4th my brother and step father caught 14 over 27.this is on a central mn lake. hard to believe but most were 28-29 inches,and yes my tape measure was fine. sounds like he's got a real honey hole and i hope he has continued sucsess. i've had ALOT of sucsesfull fox hunters throw the bull-s##t flag at me over the #of fox i've shot when they hunt the same area as i.i've had LOTS of 6-8 day fox. good luck snowgooser-shoot em up!!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Fox arent the same beast as coyotes. Plain and simple. Like comparing snow geese and canadas.

Fox are much more "forgiving" than coyotes.


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks Bearhunter. I would like to get into the foxes like that. They are few and far between around here. If you call they haul the other direction. Guess they learned what happens when they come to a free meal in coyote country.


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Snowgooser,

It is unfortunate that you need to defend yourself. I have no problem with those numbers. I think we tend to forget that there are a heck of alot of great callers out there that pile up alot of fur, and we never hear about it because they are'nt on the forums. You are in a great area (Sask), and more power to you. Have a great season!


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks Kdog.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Snowgooser, I've hunted in 14E since 2002 and have seen the number of deer there, at least around the Matador, and north along the lake south of Beechy.

In 2002, I shot the biggest mule deer buck in Saskatchewan that year during muzzle loader season while 14E was still draw (I don't think any of our skeptical friends will call BS on this one. But then again, maybe they will because they didn't actually see the buck and they appear to have difficulty believing something they don't actually see). A year or so later, the department opened up unlimited tags to cull the mule deer herd.

As you know, to get those tags, a hunter had to fill two antlerless tags, and turn in the two heads to pick up an either-sex tag along with two more antlerless tags. When those were filled, the hunter turned in the tags and the cycle continued. We shot a lot of mulies those years and could have shot even more but a guy can only take so much of skinning and gutting.

The mule deer numbers in 14E (Lucky Lake and Beechy are in this zone) have been reduced through this CWD program but there are still lots of animals.

I know a little bit about this country and that's why your claims didn't surprise me. There are lots of coyotes and 90 days of hunting could put up big numbers there, especially so once you had experience and hooked up with a knowledgeable partner.

If you say you did it, that's good enough for me. :beer: Saskcoyote


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

Saskcoyote;

My buddy that was and still is doing the trapping was telling me that the numbers were not as reduced as people think. Granted a ton of deer were shot in accessible areas, but where you can't drive he said there is more deer than before. Up here in 24 where I live finding does was a pain in the butt during muzzle loader season. But once the snow hit and covered up the prairie grass in the pastures, they were everywhere in the fields. A herd of about 50 wintered in the quarter section across my driveway. And I have little doubt about your buck. In 2003 I saw one about a mile from the house that would have easily grossed over 210 typical, and of course no tag that year. Take care.


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