# is catfishing by bow possable here in NoDak?



## MoCarp

Texas Tried and changed their mind why?

Ray Sasser 
TP&W bowfishing proposal seems off-target

06:57 PM CST on Saturday, February 18, 2006

Since the early 1980s, Texas Parks and Wildlife has taken a series of restrictive measures to help protect game fish from a growing population of anglers. In April, the state agency is poised to take a giant step backward.

A proposal from Texas Parks and Wildlife commissioner Phillip Montgomery of Dallas would make it legal to shoot catfish with a bow and arrow. Bowfishing, essentially bowhunting for fish, is restricted to nongame fish species - so-called rough fish species such as gar, carp and buffalo.

Most bowfishing is done at night from boats with powerful lights that penetrate beneath the surface of a lake or river. Bowfishers shoot specially barbed fishing arrows connected via a line to some form of reel usually attached to the bow.

The impaled fish is landed by reeling it in. Rough fish have marginal food value and are often discarded. TP&W has received complaints about hundreds of pounds of rough fish being left in dumpsters after bowfishing tournament weigh-ins.

On one hand, bowfishers are among the rough fish's few predators. On the other hand, state law makes it illegal to waste a wildlife resource, including a gar or other rough fish. Wardens plan to begin enforcing that law. They may begin slowly, first issuing warning citations.

Montgomery said bowfishermen for several years have been asking that catfish be added to the list of fish species they may shoot. "I believe it's our job as commissioners to expand public outdoors opportunities whenever we can do so without a threat to the resource," Montgomery said.

Catfish are the most popular food fish in Texas. How many restaurants don't offer catfish on the menu? Most catfish sold at a restaurant or in a fish market are farm-raised, but there are still 30 or so counties in the state where licensed commercial fishermen can catch and sell wild catfish. Catfish are second only to largemouth bass as the most popular game fish in Texas.

Montgomery's proposal is troublesome for several reasons. Three species of catfish are common to most Texas lakes and rivers. The minimum length limit on channel and blue catfish is 12 inches. The minimum length limit on flathead catfish is 18 inches. Flatheads mature slower and reproduce less effectively. They receive more protection from anglers.

Montgomery said he hasn't been bowfishing since he was a kid. Most people have never been bowfishing. Even with the brightest of lights, you're shooting at target fish that suddenly appear in the murk. You should be able to tell a catfish from a bass or a carp, but it's not so easy to tell a 16-inch illegal flathead from a 16-inch legal channel cat.

Once you've shot a fiberglass arrow through any fish, there is no catch-and-release. An arrowed fish is dead whether you release it or not.

While bowfishers report not seeing many catfish in the shallow waters they stalk, catfish are susceptible to baiting. Pour soured maize or chicken blood in the water and catfish will home in on the scent. They possess olfactory senses that rival sharks.

Furthermore, catfish are not equally distributed across Texas, and a big, murky lake such as Richland Chambers or Cedar Creek bears little resemblance to a clear-water stream such as the Frio or Guadalupe River.

You'll never wipe out the catfish on a big lake, but the fish are vulnerable to bowfishing on clear streams, where catfish numbers are relatively small anyway.

Finally, Texas has spent nearly 30 years tightening laws to produce a quality of fishing for all game fish. It's a track record that's envied by anglers in other states. If we change the catfishing laws at all, we should make the harvest more restrictive.

There's no biological information, Montgomery said, that indicates his proposal would hurt the resource. There's also no information that says it won't hurt the resource. If the commission wants to allow bowfishing for catfish, it should at least be with a restrictive limit of two or three fish per outing.

Montgomery said he doesn't know how many active bowfishers are out there. "I've asked for that information, but nobody seems to have it," he said. "I've spoken with one bowfishing association that has 150 members.

"The commission will not make a final decision without reviewing public comments. Then we'll do what we think is right."

E-mail [email protected]

[/url]http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/columnists/rsasser/stories/021906dnsposasser.2409360.html


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## MoCarp

Bow Fishing Alive And Well In Texas
I can still hear my college roommate, David Bratton, chiding me, "Don't believe none of what you read and only half of what you hear."

Of course he had flip-flopped the old bromide just to make light of my journalism major. However, since he had access to the closest dove field and was a former offensive lineman, I learned to live with the insinuation.

Had he been making those comments today, Bratton might have looked like a genius.

For example, in March the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department commissioners voted to halt bowfishing for catfish and catfish only. Within days there were news reports claiming and Web pages clamoring that the commissioners had voted to ban all bowfishing in the state.

Tyler-based game warden Chris Green heard from the panicked local bowfishing community and helped quell its fears.

"There were several phone calls made. (The information) filtered down and it created some chaos with those who bowfish," Green said.

Green said he has seen steady growth in bowfishing locally, especially among younger people.

"In this area it is popular. It is something that surprises me. They had a couple of bow-fishing tournaments on Lake Palestine and they had boats and produced several hundred pounds of rough fish," Green said.

Until last September and beginning again this September, rough fish such as carp and gar have been the only target available to bowfishermen. Since September bowfishermen have also been able to take catfish, however, the commissioners repealed that regulation effective Sept. 1.

Phil Durocher, TPWD's Inland Fisheries director, said the problem was that bowfishing for catfish didn't fit the department's traditional management plan for game fish.

"It is a form of recreation that doesn't fit with our management plan of catch and release or selective harvest," Durocher explained.

As for taking rough fish with a bow, however, Durocher said that has never been a positive or negative issue.

"They don't take enough to matter," he explained.

Green said there are lakes in his region where bowfishing is popular. The list is topped by Palestine, but also includes Lake O'the Pines, Lake Fork and Lake Tyler.

Because of the nature of the sport there have been some conflicts on Lake Tyler between bowfishermen and property owners. Most bowfishing occurs late at night from boats rigged with a generator to operate lights. If the generators aren't loud enough, some of the fishermen fish out of airboats that can be deafening when under way. However, while the city of Tyler has banned hunting on the lake, bowfishing is a form of fishing and requires a fishing license.

Green said with the exception of a few social issues, he has had few problems with bowfishermen.

"Sometimes they take a bad rap from someone dumping fish and the noise," Green said. "But bowfishermen are good. They always have the proper license and safety equipment. We hardly ever issue a citation to them, either a hard citation or a warning."

Bowfishing is to fishing about what snow boarding is to skiing or what mountain biking is to bicycle riding. It is more of an extreme sport.

It requires a lot less equipment than bass fishing, but specialized equipment all the same. Most beginners start with whatever kind of compound bow they can get their hands on. They then have to purchase a reel that attaches to the bow, fiberglass arrows and special points. Not counting the bow, three arrows and a reel is going to cost a minimum of $70.

It is the boat that can be costly, but nowhere near the cost of a bass boat. Because they fish in shallow water on lakes or on rivers, bowfishermen fish from flat-bottom boats. They are rigged with bright lights for night fishing when the fish are in the shallows.

Bowfishermen are after both numbers and size. Some of the current state records include 65 pounds for a bigmouth buffalo, 46 1/2 pounds for a common carp and 290 pounds for an alligator gar taken from the Trinity River in 2001.

Other species sought by bowfishermen include bowfin, grass carp, spotted gar and talapia.













































http://www.tylerpaper.com/article/20080508/SPORTS0202/805080313/0/RSS01


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## e.joe

Hey Moocarp......whats with you carp anglers continually trying to attack and ban another group of outdoorsmens activities? You kind of ignored the posts in the carp section so Ill re-post them here. For the life of me, I still cant understand why a group of so called outdoorsmen side up with p e t a to try and ban another guys 100% legal outdoor sport. Seems you and your groups are really helping the anti`s out. Here, whats with this recent article and these older anti acts by your group??

ps.....looks like your still getting banned from forums for stirring the pot!!
http://www.nefga.org/forum/nebraska-fis ... ocarp.html

http://www.courierpress.com/ne.....shing-ban/

Carp group wrong on bow-fishing ban

By Phil Potter (Contact) 
Sunday, April 6, 2008

When floodwaters start to drop, bow fishermen will have a field day as carp and other rough fish species make a mad dash back to the safety of area streams.

The removal of alien species makes life easier for game fish who are pressured by the undesirable species now clogging most Tri-State rivers, creeks and sloughs.

But CAG (Carp Anglers Group of America) maintains that bow fishing unduly impacts their sport of catch and release carp angling. CAGOA stages carp fishing derbies and tournaments and believes carp need protection to the point they're lobbying state fish and game agencies to ban the sport of bow fishing.

They've convinced Texas to establish some public lakes for the protection of carp. The ironic part is that by asking states to nix bow fishing they've allied themselves with groups such as PETA and the U.S. Humane Society.

Sport anglers as well as bow fishermen should counter CAGOA by inundating state fish and game agencies with letters and petitions demanding no protection for any carp species. Petitions should also request that along with bow fishing and gigging, additional control methods such as purse seine netting and other control methods be used to stem the invasive species.

What could be done with millions of pounds of carp? Probably converting them into fertilizer. Most carp 15 inches and bigger contain undue amounts of noxious chemicals, rendering them unfit for human or pet food. The fact that big-head, silver and black carp spawn up to three times a year means they can improve gardens for many years to come.

The Pilgrims learned the power of planted fish when the Penobscot Indians taught them to fertilize crops with candlefish, shad and lobsters and all three species are still abundant.

Flooding means legions of carp are in a neighborhood near you. If you want to learn more, contact Jason Greer, co-chairman of Down River Bow Fishing Association, at (812) and get started thinning the ranks of scaly aliens.

AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF

Thursday, June 24, 2004

Catch-and-release carp anglers believe Town Lake bow fishermen are killing the 
largest and best of their beloved fish, and they are hoping the Austin City 
Council will ban archers from the lake.

Claiming Town Lake is one of the premier carp fishing destinations in the 
country, the Carp Anglers Group will take its argument to the Land and 
Facilities Committee of the Austin Parks Board on July 20. The committee could 
help begin a process that might lead to an ordinance prohibiting bow fishing on 
Town Lake.

However, carp in Texas are considered nuisance fish with no protection of any 
kind, and even supporters of the bow fishing ban admit that any carp protection 
regulations are a long shot.

Bow fishermen, meanwhile, argue that carp are destructive to game fish and lake 
habitats, and believe they are doing a service by removing them from any lake. 
And Texas Parks and Wildlife fisheries officials say they don't plan to do 
anything to protect carp in Texas waters.

"That's almost universal," says Frank Walters, president of the Carp Anglers 
Group that is based in Lake Meade, Nev. "Carp fishing is non-mainstream and there's a prejudice against carp. I don't know that we've come across a state that's different."

Walters, who said he has fished for and caught carp in all 50 states, still 
plans to carry through with his request that bow fishing be banned in Austin. Town Lake, he said, is one of the best carp fisheries in the United States.

"It's just an absolute waste of a wonderful resource to put an arrow through a 30- or 40-pound carp," Walters said.

Walters is among a group of approximately 40 catch-and-release anglers who come to Austin each spring to fish for carp from the banks of Town Lake. All of those anglers take great care to release the fish unharmed, he said, so that they can be caught again.

They are, however, considered a nuisance fish, said Phil Durocher, chief of freshwater fisheries for Texas Parks and Wildlife.

"We certainly don't support catch-and-release fishing for carp," Durocher said. "German carp are an introduced species and I don't know anywhere we've got a shortage of them."

Durocher pointed out that any city regulations regarding carp would have to be in the form of a ban on bowfishing.

Size and bag limits are strictly controlled by the state, he said, and there are no plans to change anything specifically for carp.

The final decision on any rules banning bow fishing would have to come from the City Council, said Stuart Strong, the city's Division Manager for Planning,

And from the chicago trib......

Chicago Tribune - Chicago, Ill. 
Author: Paul Pezalla, Vice president, Carp Anglers Group 
Date: Jul 2, 2003 
Start Page: 20 
Section: Commentary 
Text Word Count: 408

Document Text

The story by Lew Freedman on archers killing carp ("It's a delight for 
bowfishermen," Sports, June 22) seems to promote a number of concepts that are foreign to sportsmen and to those concerned about the welfare of our wildlife. Spawning carp are densely congregated in shallow water and pretty much oblivious to everything except spawning. It does not take any skill to approach the 
fish--they are not wary in the least--and it doesn't take any skill to hit them. If these people can kill two, three or even four fish with one shot, skill is clearly not a factor. 
This situation may well be that which defines the phrase "shooting fish in a 
barrel." This cannot be considered "sporting" by any definition of the word. The bow hunters claim it is an effort to eradicate the carp and make the waters better for "more popular game fish." As a means of population control, shooting carp is a joke. They target the large fish (easier to hit) and for every 30-pound fish they kill, six 5- pound fish will be around next year to take its place. Carp eradication programs of this nature have never been effective and, 
in fact, will have an effect opposite of that intended. 
Furthermore, there is no evidence that removing carp will make room for other species. Carp are quite capable of co-existing in harmony with other species, even the invasive species like trout and salmon. Carp are the most popular sport fish in the world and it would make much more economic and ecologic sense to promote catch- and-release-carp angling than bow hunting. Finally, they claim to be raising money for an 
:lol:


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## MoCarp

ed, I am not for banning Bfing...but heres the kicker, eventually everybody has limits, Bfing can in the hands of a skilled poacher harvest enough catfish to be profitable...just like gill nets used to be ok off the beach...or in the rivers...things change...but once you use lethal methods to harvest any fish you can't do it again, in effect its a one and out....you can shoot out a water, at best reduce the amout of the biggest fish 4 sure

did you hear about lake fork in texas? had some guy woopsed a 17 pound bass Bfing? thought it was a carp......need less to say the guy shut up and sulked out of town......


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## e.joe

Ive never heard of a lake being shot out, and actually, every DNR biologist Ive talked with says bowfishing has no effect at all on the species.

Again, Im really troubled by your postings now and in the past. You and your organizations have openly tried to ban bowfishing before, have bad mouthed it, and your posting of dumpster and bucket pics is the EXACT thing Peta does when they circulate pictures and movies designed to gain support for their cause. Just take a look at their site. You are using the exact same tactics peta uses to gain support for your cause. You want bowfishing banned like peta (as has been proven in the past with your actions) you work to change regulations to slow bowfishing with no sceintific support, and you use pictures to try and make people dislike bowfishing (as above) the exact same way peta does.
IMO, you and all the pro-carp/anti bowfishing groups and people are a danger to all outdoorsmen and are helping the anti hunting/fishing movement.

Again, lets compare pics and tactics of both you and peta.....
Here is a pic you posted in your veiled anti bowfishing post, similar ones have also been posted all over the net in the past few years by you and other pro-carp angling/anti bowfishing people........









And here is a pic from petas anti bowfishing portion of their site......









Birds of a feather........looks like it to me!


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## MoCarp

so your are saying it should be legal to BF ALL game fish???

so would you say shooting a 40 inch trout is sporting?
or a 27 inch largemouth bass?

or hunting 5 acres of high fence for that fattie of a elk?

just because some one support limits or lure restrictions does not make carp anglers " cut from the same cloth as peta" as you try so hard to do....there are and will be places folks can "meat fish" and others managed for huge trophy fish of a variety of species be it bass walleye even carp

the gator gar is in big trouble because of being overharvest yet your group is often opposed of tags and limits

coastal redfisherman think arrowing reds is akin to shooting largemouth bass does that make them animal rightists?

we will always have user group issues, but know this... peta hates carp anglers as much as any other angling group


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## MoCarp

this is what I am talking about gamefish being allowed to be shot once these bow groups get started......its not enough to shoot dumpsters full of rough fish, they want to shoot trophy game fish too...look what has happened to gator gar imagine your fav trout river



> Catfish now legal in PA
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> From what I read on the PA Fish Comm. website catfish are legal as of Sept. 6 2008. Thanks to all who called, e-mailed, etc. the commission in support of this. We all made it happen. Thanks again Bill


http://bow.fishingcountry.com/bfcforums/showthread.php?t=9548


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## blhunter3

MoCarp, this is no way bowfishing can fish out a lake, its impossible.


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## MoCarp

I agree,

but it can fish DOWN a lake,

I have seen it happen, I have seen areas where common carp avg 15-18 pounds and after a bfing tourney the fish avg 7 pounds! if you don't think it can happen to other fish? hammer the LMB or cats and hit every fish you see between 3-pounds and up...those fish might take years to get replaced, fisheries folks once thought you couldn't fish down prolific species like bluegills or crappies even white bass, larger fish are alays less common


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## blhunter3

MoCarp, yes there are bowfisherman who will shoot at anything, but a majority of us identify what we are shooting. There are also fisherman who take fish out of season or the slotlimit. Both parties are wrong and can damage the fish population. Its a two way street. Carp are nothing more the an unwanted fish is most if not all bodies of water and thats why they let people bowfish, to get rid of them.


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## e.joe

Wildlife biologists across the country have repeatedly stated bowfishing has no effect on a waters population......

But just read this guys posts everyone. The carp-finatics are anti hunters/fishermen. Far worse than peta IMO. Hippocrates who have continued to attack an ancient way of collecting game for years now. If anyone else wants some more downloads from the past on these people, just send me a PM, including the treasurer of a large carp angling organization bragging on a carp forum how he was raising carp that he was releasing into public waters that had no carp. Thats right, the most destructive species to ever swim in our waters.

these guys arent right everyone. They are antis and a danger to ALL the outdoor sports. Read their rantings, look at their pictures......again, carp fishermans pic......









And here is a pic from petas anti bowfishing portion of their site......









They use the same tactic over and over that peta uses to try and turn popular opinion against bowfishing. They ARE birds of a feather.


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## MoCarp

nothing wrong with Bfing..you probably use limits to control ANY method of fishing..gill netting, dynamite ETC...the issue between carpers and Bfers is the blatant attacks we get, many many organised "fish-ins" get pounded by some in the bfing clubs......that's just plain unmannerd at best

as more and more people want to common carp fish the demand for BETTER common carp fishing rises...with that limits on how many BIG FISH get taken get put on waters that warrant such regs....the Bfers freaked out...


> how dare they take our "rights"


they follow us around and try to perpetuate old myths about common carp yet the common carp was stocked on purpose over 125 years ago and in some waters where the pred get fished down or are polluted to the point nothing BUT common carp will live they got a rep for the most part undeserved

no one will argue that bfing has the possability to HARVEST fish of any species by the dumpster full..... to ask for LEGAL limits on how many fish get taken of a size is good management, shoot all those 6 pound carp you want, it will make more food for the rarer big fish and help pass on the get big genes so we have more 40 pounders instead of 4 ten pounders....but the isue is when you limit a guy to one biggie a day, they cant have a tourney with a big ten, just a numbers shoot, which for some is as apealling as shooting spike bucks only and passing on that monster..hard to do..but that way in time the big get even bigger...its called SHARING


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## blhunter3

You do realize that Carp are "rough fish". Rough fish are fish that no one wants in the water because they destory desired fish's habitate. Thats why they let us have no limits and let us shoot them with a bow. People want them gone. Including the Game and Fish Departments.

Bottom line the rough fish need to go. Be it from poison, bowfishing, fishing or any other method.


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## MoCarp

that may be the case NOW...but things ARE changing, fisheries folks look a rough fish as "untapped potential" and can spread fishing pressures to other less fished for fish like common carp...there is a reason its the number 1 chased fish in Europe, size...fight....challenge to fool...

carp ARE wanted more and more...many of those same fisheries folks would go all native if they could....no more brown trout, or many other Nodak fish that where not here before settlement...the same could be said of pheasants honeybees and cattle...non natives, but now naturalised just like common carp...not jumping carp, or snake heads or any other "new"escapee fish..commons where stocked on purpose 125 years ago, you think they would have destroyed the watersheads they inhabit...if pressed most biologists will tell you commons have little effect on most waters they are in...and like most fish given the right conditions they can overpopulate


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## blhunter3

Many weed were established on purpose years ago too because someone liked the look of them and guess what, we still have to fight these weeds. And thats what carp are, unwanted by the large majority. Your arguement is weak and has no backing. Sorry.

The only thing carp are good are is fertilizer, bowfishing, and selling to the Asian Market.

I have caught carp before and yes they fight, but it really wasn't anything to special. I would rather catch a fish that I can eat, like walleye or pike.


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## carp_killer

mo carp
first off i want YOU to explain something to me. what is the difference (IF LEGAL to shoot game fish) if i shoot my limit of those fish and utilize them or someone catches them and uses them a limit is a limit regardless of how taken if legal.

do you know anything about the effects of a invasive species (i.e. common carp) on a lake? they eat gamefish eggs, root up the bottom of the lake which causes less water clarity and also ruins spawning habitat for other fish. what about silver carp? are you against the control of those to even though they cause lots of problems in the waterbodies they are in? its the same thing as common carp. the fish are absolutely of no benefit to our water systems.

"shooting out a lake bowfishing" or "ruins the size" has got to be one of the weakest arguments i have ever heard it will NEVER happen think of the amount of eggs a 30lb common carp lays each year and then think of the average amount of carp in the lake add it up its alot of fish a amount so high that bowfisherman will never even be able to put a dent in. as for size that isnt going to be affected very much but i will agree with you there that it could have some effect if the only fish shot were trophys but personally i will shoot any fish i see less then a lb or over 40lbs im gunna fling a arrow at it. i bowfish a lake quite a bit that has a very high number of carp in it and have never shot a fish over 5lbs in the lake and i have shot at least a hundred less then 5lbs. then i shoot lakes that have many big fish and not many small fish and i havent noticed any difference in size over time.

bowfisherman not wanting limits i wouldnt agree with at all i would fully 100% back limits on gar catfish and other NATIVE species but carp and other INVASUVE species should not have a limit on them it would be too good of a thing if bowfishermen could shoot out a lake or even put a good dent in the population but it will never happen since they can reproduce so fast. i actually wish there was a limit on gar in mn and often me and the people i bowfish with and lots of other people i know that bowfish will only shoot maybe 3 a day. with your not being satisfied with killing a dumpster full of fish theory one bowfishermen didnt shoot all those fish i can guarantee it. that pic was most likely taken after weigh in at a tourny.

seems to be the bowfishermen are being the "better" people in this situation not once have i seen a forum of bowfisherman trying to get rod and reel fishing banned. have you seen any of those forums? go on the CAG website and theres more bashing of bowfishermen then there is talk of carpfishing. if someone wants to fish carp or anyfish with a rod and reel thats no problem with me but there isnt a chance in hell that im gunna let a R&R fishermen take away my rights to bowfish like they slowly are trying to do wether you admit it or not. if i want to shoot my fish LEGALLY you let me do that and if you want to R&R fish your fish LEGALLY its no problem with me. but when R&R fishermen try and take away my right to bowfish ya im gunna get worked up about it and any other bowfishermen ive ever met would do the same. theres plenty of fish for everyone. let everybody fish the way they want to and there will be no problems. if the carp anglers were smart about this they would want to work with the bowfishermen against peta and other anti gorups not with the antis to get rid of one sport because peta wants R&R fishing gone as much as they want bowfishing.

IMHO any INVASIVE species should be illegal to release back into the water body that it came from.

if you wish to discuss this further send me a PM because i will not continue in this thread because i can see were its headed.

Jake
Proud bowfishermen and member of the LLBA


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## MoCarp

trapper_2 said:


> mo carp
> what is the difference (IF LEGAL to shoot game fish) if i shoot my limit of those fish and utilize them or someone catches them and uses them a limit is a limit regardless of how taken if legal.


1st let me say that I hunt, and trap (one day I plan on a road trip to trap a marten!) and harvest fish to eat or mount

there is no difference a harvested fish is gone BUT if you fish all day and catch 100 fish you have the option to only harvest say smaller fish instead of a rare trophy.. you may want a glass mount of as an example, and release all the others (some may argue post release mortality) if you shoot 6 fish "a limit" your day is done..... you don't get that 100 fish day unless you poach..and I bet its far easier to get 100 bass a night under the lights Bfing than with a rod and reel...let me ask if you spot light a deer and shoot it...is it as sporting as stalking during the day? using your argument it would be ok "if legal"


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## MoCarp

trapper_2 said:


> do you know anything about the effects of a invasive species (i.e. common carp) on a lake? they eat game fish eggs, root up the bottom of the lake which causes less water clarity and also ruins spawning habitat for other fish. IMHO any INVASIVE species should be illegal to release back into the water body that it came from.


1st common carp are listed as an invasive fish on the ISSG as a top one hundred species with the potential to out compete native fishes as are Large mouth Bass, Brown Trout and a few other notable "good fish"
www.issg.org/booklet.pdf


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## blhunter3

Mo, its just as easy to catch your 100 bass and be illegal too. A trophy fish is all in the eyes of the beholders. Bottom line is that people want carp gone and thats why we can shoot them with a bow. I understand that there are some people who will poach fish reguardless, whether it be with a bow, rod, dynamite or what not.

I agree with trapper in that we should have a limit on native speice's, but as far as carp are concerned, get rid of them all.


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## carp_killer

bowfishing is not just a numbers game as much as you want to think that and fishing shouldnt be either. at the beginning of this year i was thinking all about numbers of fish and it really bothered me not shooting at every legal fish that came in mostly gar. now i am the exact opposite i would rather watch gar then shoot them and then maybe take 1-2 eaters and 1 trophy fish. so to me its just as much fun to see the fish shooting is just a bonus. it wouldnt bother a over amount of people if you could only shoot so many of a NATIVE fish but when people talk about putting limits on INVASIVE species its just down right dumb let alone trying to ban harvesting them all together.

with your deer example in my opinion as long as its legal if thats how the person wants to harvest there deer good for them if its legal i have no problem what so evr with it do i think its as sportning? no. i personally hate hunting deer but hunt them anyway because i like eating them if there was a legal easier way for me to harvest a nice doe every year i would by all means do it.

have you ever tried shooting a fish before? if you have you would know it isnt as easy as it may seem maybe you should try something before you start bashing it. and actually i dont think i have ever seen 100 bass a night bowfishing or during the day so it would be really hard to do.

one more thing. when your going to bash bowfishing why dont you actually come up with your own arguments instead of just copying and pasting someone elses. i feel you are very uneducated on this subject and are just against bowfishing because we kill your precious carp but you yourself dont have any knowledge about bowfishing or what invasive species do to a waterbody. you just enjoy carp fishing and are trying to get bowfishing banned so there will be more carp for you to catch and bigger fish which in reality wont be true because if some fish arnt removed from the body of water there will everntually be to many fish for the resources available and therefore they wont grow as big and could eventually die off.

maybe do a little research on something before you start bashing it.

Jake


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## blhunter3

Mo, I won't lie. I would love to see all of the carp gone from some fisheries, because since they snuck in the fishing has been horrible.


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## MoCarp

their is NO study that substantiates common carp feed on eggs 
however bluegills and gizzard shad have

water quality in soft bottom waters can be made more turbid by bottom feeding carp or bullheads and suckers even gizzard shad for that matter, 
usually the water is overpopulated with small fish... a situation no one wants even us carpers...balance needs to be restored

but most times wind and land use are the biggest culprits source point pollution allowing common carp to out compete other fish ...gizzard shad have been documented in a lake in Florida as the turbidity makers causing algae blooms and deaths on gators and turtles documented
http://myfwc.com/gators/research/griffin.htm


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## MoCarp

....many times commons get the blame but look deeper and you get behind the real issues and fix the REAL problems, otherwise the cycle of renovating small lakes continues " great job security for those who spend our tax dollars"



trapper_2 said:


> what about silver carp? are you against the control of those to even though they cause lots of problems in the waterbodies they are in?


"Hypophthalmichthys molitrix" or so called silver "CARP" are not even related to common carp "Cyprinus carpio"

silvers filter feed and are from the south east area of Asia..think of these as vietnamese areas of Asia,

where as commons are from Eurasia like transilvania Carpathian Mountains where they get there name...

silvers are not the scope of what we euro carpers are after....to the extent of what damages they will cause is still unknown...I can tell you this, in waters they are in ....the common carp fishing suffers


----------



## MoCarp

trapper_2 said:


> "shooting out a lake bowfishing" or "ruins the size" has got to be one of the weakest arguments i have ever heard it will NEVER happen


take 2 dumpsters of commons out of a small lake will effect the size dynamics...in fact many clubs brag on how they are helping restore order to a lake, which is it no effect? or are you helping?



trapper_2 said:


> "think of the amount of eggs a 30lb common carp lays each year and then think of the average amount of carp in the lake add it up its alot of fish a amount so high that bow fisherman will never even be able to put a dent in.


 a 30 pound common is a very old fish they do not spawn as efficiently as a younger smaller common, this is well known in the hatchery trades, grandma and grand paw common carp don't poot out the young uns like they used to, in fact some evidence suggests that the reason bigger fish get big is they expend far less energy in the spawn than the fish that don't get as big....example not every sow bass will make 10 pounds no matter how old she gets



trapper_2 said:


> seems to be the bowfishermen are being the "better" people in this situation not once have i seen a forum of bowfisherman trying to get rod and reel fishing banned.


 :roll:



trapper_2 said:


> but there isnt a chance in hell that im gunna let a R&R fishermen take away my rights to bowfish .


euro anglers, red fisherman, cat fisherman and gator gar advocates

would argue you have the PRIVLEDGE to bow fish not a right
I believe as others that some waters warranty LIMITS on how many fish are taken REGUARDLESS of method...

Some would love to go to lake fork and stringer 10 bass over 9 pounds then fillet them out, even today....yet the rules that allow those numbers of monster fish allowed the environment to produce those trophies
the fact that Texas created a trophy common carp lake, the 1st of its kind, has many in the Bfing world up in arms...the fact is you can still shoot all the under 33 inch carp you want..no limit, just the fish over that they want you to limit the harvest to one...even now they work to repeal the rule...in the end its about sharing

Mo


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## blhunter3

Mo, do you realize that most of the people want carp gone, out of their lake. That's why we can shoot them with a bow. They are not a desired fish, so that's why we can shoot as many as we want. What good do carp do in water system? Answer me that. Why are you so against bowfishing? You need to realize we are not in Europe and carp aren't a desired fish, well maybe to a very small minority. People here, want bass and walleye. If you want to protect your beloved carp so much go to Europe. You want change anyone's mind about "letting carp live".

If carp didn't do damage to lake's why has many Game and Wildlife and DNR spent a lot of money to try to get rid of them? They are an aquatic nuisance. Bottom line.

Hmmm common carp are listed.
http://gf.nd.gov/fishing/ans-list.html

Wow again carp are on the list.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/invasives/aq ... index.html

Even in MO common carp are on the list.
http://www.protectyourwaters.net/hitchhikers/index.php

Im sorry but again, your arguement has aboslutely no backing again. If you really want me to I can go through every state in the USA and prove that any carp are unwanted. Therefor, we need no limits and we need to get rid of them anyway possible.


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## carp_killer

MoCarp said:


> their is NO study that substantiates common carp feed on eggs
> however bluegills and gizzard shad have
> 
> water quality in soft bottom waters can be made more turbid by bottom feeding carp or bullheads and suckers even gizzard shad for that matter,
> usually the water is overpopulated with small fish... a situation no one wants even us carpers...balance needs to be restored
> 
> but most times wind and land use are the biggest culprits source point pollution allowing common carp to out compete other fish ...gizzard shad have been documented in a lake in Florida as the turbidity makers causing algae blooms and deaths on gators and turtles documented
> http://myfwc.com/gators/research/griffin.htm


you need a study to show that carp feed on eggs? were do carp feed? where to fish lay eggs? hmmmm seems to me with a little common sense it can be figured out but then again by reading all your other posts you havent yet showed me that you have any of that either.

i have personally watched a lake get dirtier because of carp so dont tell me it doesnt happen. theres a lake near willmar mn that used to be crystal clear 10-12ft visibility now you cant see 2ft barely and the quality went down the same year the carp got in the lake and the walleye fishing started suffering then as well.


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## carp_killer

MoCarp said:


> ....many times commons get the blame but look deeper and you get behind the real issues and fix the REAL problems, otherwise the cycle of renovating small lakes continues " great job security for those who spend our tax dollars"
> 
> 
> 
> trapper_2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> what about silver carp? are you against the control of those to even though they cause lots of problems in the waterbodies they are in?
> 
> 
> 
> "Hypophthalmichthys molitrix" or so called silver "CARP" are not even related to common carp "Cyprinus carpio"
> 
> silvers filter feed and are from the south east area of Asia..think of these as vietnamese areas of Asia,
> 
> where as commons are from Eurasia like transilvania Carpathian Mountains where they get there name...
> 
> silvers are not the scope of what we euro carpers are after....to the extent of what damages they will cause is still unknown...I can tell you this, in waters they are in ....the common carp fishing suffers
Click to expand...

i really could care less if there related or not that is not the point of this the point is they are an INVASIVE species just like common carp.

dont know what kind of damage there going to do. are you that ignorant that you dont even realize the damage they already do? fish jumping in the air and into the boat and hitting people isnt a problem its already been proved they are destroying the ecosystem in the waters there in


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## blhunter3

Here is a better one for MO, the state, not the person.

http://www.nwf.org/wildlife/pdfs/MissouriInvasives.pdf


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## blhunter3

MO, face it your so called facts have been proven false. Carp do ruin lakes by stirring up the bottom, they feed on fish eggs, and they are not wanted. Bottom line, we need to get rid of them all together by any means necessary.


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## carp_killer

MoCarp said:


> trapper_2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "shooting out a lake bowfishing" or "ruins the size" has got to be one of the weakest arguments i have ever heard it will NEVER happen
> 
> 
> 
> take 2 dumpsters of commons out of a small lake will effect the size dynamics...in fact many clubs brag on how they are helping restore order to a lake, which is it no effect? or are you helping?
> 
> 
> 
> trapper_2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> "think of the amount of eggs a 30lb common carp lays each year and then think of the average amount of carp in the lake add it up its alot of fish a amount so high that bow fisherman will never even be able to put a dent in.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> a 30 pound common is a very old fish they do not spawn as efficiently as a younger smaller common, this is well known in the hatchery trades, grandma and grand paw common carp don't poot out the young uns like they used to, in fact some evidence suggests that the reason bigger fish get big is they expend far less energy in the spawn than the fish that don't get as big....example not every sow bass will make 10 pounds no matter how old she gets
> 
> 
> 
> trapper_2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> seems to be the bowfishermen are being the "better" people in this situation not once have i seen a forum of bowfisherman trying to get rod and reel fishing banned.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> :roll:
> 
> 
> 
> trapper_2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> but there isnt a chance in hell that im gunna let a R&R fishermen take away my rights to bowfish .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> euro anglers, red fisherman, cat fisherman and gator gar advocates
> 
> would argue you have the PRIVLEDGE to bow fish not a right
> I believe as others that some waters warranty LIMITS on how many fish are taken REGUARDLESS of method...
> 
> Some would love to go to lake fork and stringer 10 bass over 9 pounds then fillet them out, even today....yet the rules that allow those numbers of monster fish allowed the environment to produce those trophies
> the fact that Texas created a trophy common carp lake, the 1st of its kind, has many in the Bfing world up in arms...the fact is you can still shoot all the under 33 inch carp you want..no limit, just the fish over that they want you to limit the harvest to one...even now they work to repeal the rule...in the end its about sharing
> 
> Mo
Click to expand...

2 full dumpsters taken out of one lake. you know how often that happens? not very often unfortunetly.

30lb carp dont lay as many eggs. o gog thats the most hilarious thing ive read all day a bigger carp lays alot more eggs then a small one think about it a little bit dont just type random **** trying to defend your statements that mean nothing. go out during spawn pull the boat up in the weeds there rolling in (and i bet the water is dirtyer in this spot then anywere else in the lake) and look at the size of the fish lots of big fish is what your going to see which are the females and then you will see 2-3 small carp (males) chasing each of the big fish. a 30lb carp is not that old of fish actually.then shoot a 30-40lb carp prespawn or catch one in your case and look at all the eggs in. now you want to tell me they dont spawn as much.

go on the CAG or other carp fishing sights you dont see bowfisherman bashing on there. go to bowfish country or mudshark and theres just as many of you people *****ing as there is bowfishermen trying to have conversations and get some info.

if its a privledge for me to bowfish then its a privledge for you to fish with rod and reel. seems to me the indians who would have done the first fishing here in america used spears and bows to fish not rods and reels. it is my right to bowfish and i plan on continuing to do so. if you want to rod and reel fish thats your choice and i have no problem with it just quit making an *** of yourself trying to stop bowfishing.

how many times do i have to say it before you can understand. IM IN FAVOR OF LIMITS FOR N-A-T-I-V-E FISH.(GAR CATS REDS ETC) but carp are INVASIVE so we should not have a limit on them we should get rid of them by any legal means. i dont give a %^$# what the euro anglers think this aint europe is it? if im in europe different story this is america people dont fish for carp like they do in europe figure it out.

a carp is invasive so protecting them or putting limits on them is just flat out dumb so i can see why they want it repealed. i dont think your in a very good place to be telling us that its all about sharing we should be telling you that your the one bashing our sport trying to get it banned. seems to me that would give more opportunutys for you guys to get fish but i dont want to point out the obvious too much for you to understand.


----------



## MoCarp

blhunter3 said:


> Im sorry but again, your arguement has aboslutely no backing again. If you really want me to I can go through every state in the USA and prove that any carp are unwanted. Therefor, we need no limits and we need to get rid of them anyway possible.


interest euro style angling is growing... the 4900 hits on my euro tutoral on here is evidence as such.....common carp ARE listed as an invasive as are Large mouth bass, and brown trout....many waters through out the USA have fish species that where not there when white europeans settled this country...fisheries biologists would agree after 125 years common carp are naturalized like asian ringneck pheasents are


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## blhunter3

If the common carp are so naturalized why do the biologist want them gone? Because they destroy habitat for other fish and they destroy the water. If you want to fish like they do in Europe go over there and fish. Don't ruin lakes just because a very small percentage of people want to catch them.


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## blhunter3

Quite comparing different speices to carp. Bass and pheasants don't destroy the area they live in.

Also show me where a biologist thinks that carp are a good speices to keep around.


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## carp_killer

whens the last time you heard of the dnr killing out a lake because of too many bass?

bowfishing is a very rapidly growing sport and i think more than carp rod and reel fishing.

like BL said if you want to euro fish for carp go to europe.


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## MoCarp

blhunter3 said:


> Quite comparing different speices to carp. Bass and pheasants don't destroy the area they live in. .


http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/gene ... asive-bass



trapper_2 said:


> whens the last time you heard of the dnr killing out a lake because of too many bass?.


"Are largemouth bass a good fish or a bad fish? Depending on which lake or pond you are visiting this can be a very difficult question. In Nevada, anglers consider largemouth bass to be one of the most desired game fish, but in special ponds like those at the Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge largemouth bass are an unwanted invasive species."

http://www.ndow.org/about/news/pr/06120 ... mouth.shtm



blhunter3 said:


> Also show me where a biologist thinks that carp are a good speices to keep .


"It is unlawful to retain more than one common carp of 33 inches or longer per day." on Lady Bird Lake (formerly Town Lake] Austin ,Texas



blhunter3 said:


> bowfishing is a very rapidly growing sport and i think more than carp rod and reel fishing..


organised carp club membership out numbers BFing club membership 3 to one



blhunter3 said:


> like BL said if you want to euro fish for carp go to europe.


HMMM we learned french kissing from France hmmmm we got spinning reels from France hmmmm our P-51 mustang fighters needed brit motors so we could dominate German plans, lots of good things we have learned from our great great great grand parents over seas

unless you are native American you came from across the pond too!


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## blhunter3

But why do you want to ruin established lake with keeping the carp?

Also MoCaro you better read that article more carefully,

According to a report on exotic fish by the Sport Fishing Institute, carp "were apparently brought to the United States from Europe in 1831 and 1832 by a private citizen." The New York Department of Environmental Conservation reported that carp were first introduced into New York in 1831.

As the Sport Fishing Institute and many others have written, the introduction of the common carp (also on the 100 least-wanted-species list) to North American waters was a monumental mistake.

So, alas, the largemouth is no longer wanted in Japan by those who wish to see the native species of that country prosper, even though there's a sizable interest in fishing for bass among Japanese freshwater anglers.

Your beloved carp, are viewed as unwanted and will remain that way. Almost no on wants them around. The only people that want them around are the fishermen that fish for them and the people that eat them. To me its a selfish move to want to keep a fish that is viewed as undesirable to biologist.

Your article, really damaged you crediblity in my thoughts.

Again you have proved nothing to me except that carp are unwanted and we should have more people trying to exterminate them. I know I will be doing my part in the extermination this spring and summer.


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## MoCarp

common carp here LONG BEFORE the sport of fishing was a sport, they where distributed by the 1st federal fish hatchurys from German stocks in the 1870-60's that is well documented, most impoundments had commons in there streams before they where dammed, by all intents and purposes commons where around during fishing booms as well as busts, the bad rep they acquired was because in the open sewers we call rivers back in the early 1900's they where one of the only fish to survive because they can gulp air from the surface, also excessive harvest of predator fish allowed common carp to get out of control in natural eutrophic waters where high numbers of starving commons would root in mud bottoms and cause turbidity issues, with proper management common carp fishing like I like goes hand in hand with great game fishing, they are not mutually exclusive, most fisheries folks would LIKE to see MORE usage on commons it makes good management sense....as far as BFing...most people will never spend major bucks on exclusive Bfing rigs its far too expensive, euro carping you could have ALL the best equipment available, and have less than 3k in it, you would be hard pressed to get a cheap boat outfitted for that, much less run it...bank angling burns no gas and I am afraid that is the future we will see in this country, with the cost of gas being what it is and will be up there again,,,,when do you thing we will see 70 mph electric bass boats for under 23 k???


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## blhunter3

I don't use a boat for bowfishing and I killed hundreds of carp last summer. All shore fishing. I have seen with my own eyes how carp destroy habitat. I think they are a nuisance and need to be erraticated.

I don't care when or why or how they came into lake and rivers, all i care is how do we get rid of them. I have read on other forums where carp fisherman were bragging how they were releasing carp into water so they could have more places to fish. Sure there is only a select few bad apple's in every group, but to me that stands out hoe how greedy carp fisherman are.

Until I see how carp improve the water system or fishery or any positive benefits of them besides a small group of people that fish for them. If they don't do anything good, then lets get rid of them.


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## e.joe

Lots of info right here on the devastating destructiveness of the common carp. The most destructive invasive animal to ever hit our waters.
http://bow.fishingcountry.com/bfcforums ... y.php?f=96

I really have to laugh at these carp angling anti hunters. Saying that since the carp was released here on purpose its a good fish. Guess they dont remember that people in their ignorance also put DDT and untold other harmful chemicals in the environment.

Here is a letter a carp angler got back from a N. Dak. fisheries person when the cried about carp being put on a list of destructive fish.....

"Thank you for your comments and opinion about North Dakota Game and Fish 
Department placing carp on its list of aquatic nuisance species (ANS).

As you should be aware of carp were introduce into the United States, 
California being the first place to receive carp, as a food source. Carp 
were quickly spread through out the country in 1800's in hope that this 
species would be beneficial and be used local anglers. Unfortunately the 
carp was not the boon that it was thought to be and exacerbated problems of habitat modification, both aquatic and terrestrial, and was an additional 
competition with native and desirable fish species for limited aquatic food 
resources. Carp feeding activities create a special set of problems: bottom 
feeding disturbs the sediments which causes turbidity problems; turbid 
waters have reduced light penetration into the water; less light equates 
with less macrophyte plant growth; less marcophyte plants is less production of macroinvertebrates; macroinvertebrates are used by many species of gamefish and by young waterfowl (primarily ducks); carp also eat macroinvertebrates they root these out of the bottom sediments; and moderate or greater numbers of carp will drastically reduce a waterbody's ability to support native and desirable fish or waterfowl.

Many reports and documents about the problems caused by carp and the 
benefits of carp removal, i.e., eradication, have been produced by various 
agencies. I refer to "Carp in North America" by American Fisheries Society, "Inland Fisheries Management" California Department of Game and Fish, Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources' publication on impacts of carp on waterfowl production, and the numerous examples of the rebound in the varieties of desirable an native fish species after carp have been eradicaed from a waterbody. The overwhelming facts do not show that carp have improved the quality of the fishing or the water quality parameters of most of the United States' waterbody and rivers.

I am aware that individuals do enjoy fishing for carp, and I have: enjoyed 
catching them on light tackle; harvesting them for smoked back straps and 
ribs; and utilizing their sporting value. In the need to keep a balanced and 
highly productive fishery that majority of anglers wish to utilize, carp's 
sporting value is overshadowed by the impacts they do to a waterbody.

Lynn R Schlueter
Special Project Biologist
North Dakota Game and Fish Department"
Now thats the truth!!

What biologists said carp should be protected on Lady Bird Moo? Please tell me their name so I can question them on this......

Another answer to the cries of a distraught carp hugger........

"Thank you for being concerned about the impacts of aquatic nuisance species 
(ANS) on our recreational waters.

ANS come in a variety of sizes and shapes, but all have common traits: are non native, are invasive, are injurious to existing species, and are a 
detrimental impact to native and desirable flora and fauna. The problem with ANS is that they create problems in the trophic cascade - the energy flow up the food chain. Only about 20-25% of the potential energy resource makes it way from a lower trophic level to the next higher level of the food chain or trophic level. The general steps in the food chain/trophic levels are -- from aquatic habitats, to plants, to plant eaters like insects or other macroinvertebrates and zooplankton, to small fish, and to the large fish which most anglers are concerned about. When ANS are present, they can disrupt, reallocation, and divert energy from moving up the trophic system. The top trophic level is reduced in proportion to the ANS impacts at each and every lower trophic level. Most desirable fish are found at the top trophic level which means that there will not be high standing crops (pounds of fish per acre). As an example, walleye standing crops are frequently less than five pounds per acre and largemouth bass are less than 30 lb/acre.

The carp possess the traits of ANS and cause production problems for angler desirable fish species. Bluntly stated, carp have damaged more fisheries than any other species -- except man's activities. Carp modify aquatic habitats by eating rooted littoral plants, consume macroinvertebrates, creating muddy water to reduce plant growth and feed activities of other fish, displace other fish species by reproducing in huge numbers, and do best in high quality waterbodies where sportfish are desired.

The following are examples of what carp can do to the trophic energy flows when present in modest numbers - carp feeding activities change aquatic habitats which can cause only 20% less energy for plants (using the 23% energy transfer x 0.8 which is the inverse of 0.2), carp eat plants which is 20% less energy for the next available trophic level, carp also eat many of the insects that young gamefish need which is 20% less energy being moved to the next upper trophic level, and juvenile carp will displace other small fish, but small carp can be eaten by large fish, so this trophic level will be a 20% less energy transfer to the upper trophic level or desirable fish like walleye. The result from a modest infestation of carp will be that the gamefish standing crop will be 39% of what should be there or walleye standing crop is 1.96 pounds per acre. In a moderate carp infestation where 40% of the energy is diverted, the end result is top trophic level is reduced to 16.5% of its original levels or a walleye standing crop of walleye of 0.82 pounds per acre. A high infestation rate of carp would be an 80% reduction of energy moving up the trophic levels and the would result in about 0.6% of potential standing crop of walleye or only 0.03 pounds of walleye per acre.

As with many fish species, there is a group of anglers who do enjoy fishing for them. I am well acquainted with the European carp anglers exploits, their techniques, the lack of fishing opportunity in those countries, the cost to rent angling access, how most native fish species have been depleted in those countries, and that European anglers will fly to Canada to fish for carp as it is cheaper than fishing in their homeland. In comparison to other angling group, the number of carp anglers in the United States is low. There is not the angler demand to manage a fishery for a fish species which is undesirable and has the potential to infest or harm other waterbodies.

The marketing of carp for human food has been attempted for many years and in many different states. The big problems with selling carp for profit are: the lack of a market (few people want to eat carp), lack of commercial enterprises (not enough money in carp processing to venture capital costs),lack of commercial fishermen (the price for carp is so low that people cannot make a living netting/selling them), and the lack of areas with harvestable marketable carp (the market requires a specific size of fish - one that is about three to five pounds, in sufficient number to net, and an area where nets can be used).

As carp are present in many waters and have been in those waters for some time that most anglers do not realize that carp are an introduced species which proved to be harmful to native flora and fauna or desirable species. In respects to carp, they should be synonymous with the problems that ANS can cause. The ANS that are now heading our way are more harmful than the 
carp and should be viewed as a problem that will have great impacts on our recreational fishing. Those impacts will also be felt by carp anglers.
Let me know if you have any additional questions.

LYNN R SCHLUETER
Special Project Biologist

Guys, just remember one thing......carp anglers are the only group to attack another guys form of outdoor recreation. P e ta does, and they are birds of a feather. In the next 6 months some interesting articles will be coming out in national magazines detailing the anti activities of these carp anglers. Let every outdoorsmen you know about these radical enemys of the outdoor sports.


----------



## MoCarp

LYNN R SCHLUETER
Special Project Biologist Aquatic Nuisance Species Coordinator. Fisheries Division. North Dakota Game and Fish Departmentor 


> I am well acquainted with the European carp anglers exploits, their techniques, the lack of fishing opportunity in those countries, the cost to rent angling access, how most native fish species have been depleted in those countries, and that European anglers will fly to Canada to fish for carp as it is cheaper than fishing in their homeland. In comparison to other angling group, the number of carp anglers in the United States is low. There is not the angler demand to manage a fishery for a fish species which is undesirable and has the potential to infest or harm other waterbodies.


notice the persons job! if I were in charge of common carp removal I would feel the same way....that's what I mean with job security
remember the end of all fishing for the great lakes because of zebra mussels? what happened? a boom in walleye/perch/and small mouth bass fishing because the water quality improved

as far as euro dudes only fishing for carp because they have nothing else I refer to that same subject in an earlier post " will fix the pics and post a link here when I get done


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## MoCarp

> LYNN R SCHLUETER
> Special Project Biologist Aquatic Nuisance Species Coordinator. Fisheries Division. North Dakota Game and Fish Departmentor "I am well acquainted with the European carp anglers exploits, their techniques, the lack of fishing opportunity in those countries,........how most native fish species have been depleted in those countries"


can you say MYTH!

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... 926#197926



> LYNN R SCHLUETER "the cost to rent angling access,, and that European anglers will fly to Canada to fish for carp as it is cheaper than fishing in their homeland.


sure it cost some... but nowhere near as much as the thousands of guys here who makes payments on a bass boat and truck to pull it... much less the gas money to cast and blast all over the lake...the actual cost per 24 hours of fishing here would be much much less as they bank fish mostly there and RENT the area they camp and fish from



> LYNN R SCHLUETER "In comparison to other angling group, the number of carp anglers in the United States is low. There is not the angler demand to manage a fishery for a fish species which is undesirable and has the potential to infest or harm other waterbodies.


that is changing as witnessed by the new regs in Texas on common carp and with others coming in other states

anyways notice the persons job! 
if I were in charge of common carp removal 
I would feel the same way....

that's what I mean with job security

remember the end of all fishing for the great lakes because of zebra mussels? what happened? a boom in walleye/perch/and small mouth bass fishing because the water quality improved...not saying that we should stock them, just that the sky hasn't fell

common carp have been in our waters WELL OVER 125 years if they where going to destroy the earth they would have done so a long time ago
if pressed most fisheries folk would admit most waters that have commons in them have no problems as far as other fishes effected by common carp, and the idealistic goal to "go native" would be less than optimal


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## e.joe

Oh thats funny! Myth??
No, a fisheries biologist speeaking the same truth every fisheries biologist does.....carp are a destructive invasive fish.

But moo......you never answered my question. A very important question to the many many outdoorsmen all over the nation, why do you and peta use the same tactics to try and harm ones outdoor interests. You and carp anglers all over have demonstrated that many times. Right here in this thread infact.......

.again, carp fishermans pic......









And here is a pic from petas anti bowfishing portion of their site......









You are using the same anti tactics as peta, and you have the nerve to call yourself an outdoorsman? You are a devisive anti in my opinion. You and the rest of the radical carp anglers are extremely harmful to the outdoor sports in general in my opinion and should be shunned by other outdoor groups for the radicals you are, again, in my opinion.

They use the same tactic over and over that peta uses to try and turn popular opinion against bowfishing. They ARE birds of a feather.

And please, let us know the name of the fisheries biologist from Lady Bird lake that said carp should be protected. Lets have the name and dept. so we can check your statement for fact.


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## e.joe

Just in case this post is altered in anyway, figured I would lock it in.....



MoCarp said:


> Bow Fishing Alive And Well In Texas
> I can still hear my college roommate, David Bratton, chiding me, "Don't believe none of what you read and only half of what you hear."
> 
> Of course he had flip-flopped the old bromide just to make light of my journalism major. However, since he had access to the closest dove field and was a former offensive lineman, I learned to live with the insinuation.
> 
> Had he been making those comments today, Bratton might have looked like a genius.
> 
> For example, in March the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department commissioners voted to halt bowfishing for catfish and catfish only. Within days there were news reports claiming and Web pages clamoring that the commissioners had voted to ban all bowfishing in the state.
> 
> Tyler-based game warden Chris Green heard from the panicked local bowfishing community and helped quell its fears.
> 
> "There were several phone calls made. (The information) filtered down and it created some chaos with those who bowfish," Green said.
> 
> Green said he has seen steady growth in bowfishing locally, especially among younger people.
> 
> "In this area it is popular. It is something that surprises me. They had a couple of bow-fishing tournaments on Lake Palestine and they had boats and produced several hundred pounds of rough fish," Green said.
> 
> Until last September and beginning again this September, rough fish such as carp and gar have been the only target available to bowfishermen. Since September bowfishermen have also been able to take catfish, however, the commissioners repealed that regulation effective Sept. 1.
> 
> Phil Durocher, TPWD's Inland Fisheries director, said the problem was that bowfishing for catfish didn't fit the department's traditional management plan for game fish.
> 
> "It is a form of recreation that doesn't fit with our management plan of catch and release or selective harvest," Durocher explained.
> 
> As for taking rough fish with a bow, however, Durocher said that has never been a positive or negative issue.
> 
> "They don't take enough to matter," he explained.
> 
> Green said there are lakes in his region where bowfishing is popular. The list is topped by Palestine, but also includes Lake O'the Pines, Lake Fork and Lake Tyler.
> 
> Because of the nature of the sport there have been some conflicts on Lake Tyler between bowfishermen and property owners. Most bowfishing occurs late at night from boats rigged with a generator to operate lights. If the generators aren't loud enough, some of the fishermen fish out of airboats that can be deafening when under way. However, while the city of Tyler has banned hunting on the lake, bowfishing is a form of fishing and requires a fishing license.
> 
> Green said with the exception of a few social issues, he has had few problems with bowfishermen.
> 
> "Sometimes they take a bad rap from someone dumping fish and the noise," Green said. "But bowfishermen are good. They always have the proper license and safety equipment. We hardly ever issue a citation to them, either a hard citation or a warning."
> 
> Bowfishing is to fishing about what snow boarding is to skiing or what mountain biking is to bicycle riding. It is more of an extreme sport.
> 
> It requires a lot less equipment than bass fishing, but specialized equipment all the same. Most beginners start with whatever kind of compound bow they can get their hands on. They then have to purchase a reel that attaches to the bow, fiberglass arrows and special points. Not counting the bow, three arrows and a reel is going to cost a minimum of $70.
> 
> It is the boat that can be costly, but nowhere near the cost of a bass boat. Because they fish in shallow water on lakes or on rivers, bowfishermen fish from flat-bottom boats. They are rigged with bright lights for night fishing when the fish are in the shallows.
> 
> Bowfishermen are after both numbers and size. Some of the current state records include 65 pounds for a bigmouth buffalo, 46 1/2 pounds for a common carp and 290 pounds for an alligator gar taken from the Trinity River in 2001.
> 
> Other species sought by bowfishermen include bowfin, grass carp, spotted gar and talapia.
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## blhunter3

Mo, carp are still invading new water, and yes they have destroyed other waters, fishing used to be great on a coupel private lakes and then carp got in and ruined it. Carp need to go.


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## carp_killer

mo this last series of your posts has reassured my thoughts on how dumb and ignorant you are. you are against bowfishing and a carp hugger we get it. but in one of your post awhile back you were trying to tell me how carp dont cause any water problems in one of your last posts you said that the carp were quote "allowed common carp to get out of control in natural eutrophic waters where high numbers of starving commons would root in mud bottoms and cause turbidity issues" kinda going against your own words if ya ask me and bowfishing and removal of carp by all means that are legal helps to keep the population in check NOT reduce it. the dnr spends millions if not billions of dollars a year to eradicate carp your a taxpayer/license buyer so your helping contribute to the eradication of carp so are you not going to buy a license and quit paying you taxes because you love your precious carp so much? think about what your saying your talking out your *** on a subject you know nothing about other then you like to carp fish so your going to bash bowfishing to save them. but since your so uneducated on this you cant write one post for yourself you have to go all over the internet to get unrealistic info to back up the **** you say that makes absolutely no sense at all.

im going to do my part in carp eradication all summer and spring and fall and winter.

i bought my first boat this year and it is not a cheap thing to get into bowfishing costs alot more then rod and real. you could easily dump 40 grand plus into setting up a custom airboat for bowfishing which is what alot of guys down south use then add the gas in thats required to run it. it gets expensive but its well worth it. so bowfishing puts alot more money into the economy then rod and real ever will.

get educated about bowfishing before you start bashing it. cant knock it till you try it. and i have trie rod and real and i absolutely hate it so i have tried your type of fishing and my type so i actually know something about it unlike you.


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## e.joe

The thing about carp huggers is they will make up anything and say its the truth to refute facts that say carp are destructive. Got no facts.....make em up!

As far as money spent on bowfishing vs. carp angling, well the boats alone bury them. Here is my newest, $16,000 mainly for bowfishing and customized for bowfishing.....
http://www.beavertailskiffs.com/featuredboats.html

New bowfishing specific bows made by browning, oneida, pearson, and many other archery mfgrs. I live in the chicago area, go to any bass pro, cabelas or gander and you will find loads of bowfishing gear. Only stuff for carp are some uncle josh dough bait cans.

I think moo said carp anglers outnumber bowfishermen?? HA! Not here. Bowfishing tournaments REGULARLY bring 100-150 participants, the "fish ins" here dont have nearly that number.

Bowfishing is quickly becoming one of the most popular sports out there, as shown by the mountain of new products for it. Carp angling.........HA!


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## MoCarp

trapper_2 said:


> mo this last series of your posts has reassured my thoughts on how dumb and ignorant you are..


 :roll:



trapper_2 said:


> you are against bowfishing and a carp hugger .


nope..I believe bowfishing has its place, I have even bowfished more than you realize, as far as carp hugger? just like catching big fish of all species, so I guess it makes me a bass, crappie,trout walleye, pike bluegill hugger too



trapper_2 said:


> you were trying to tell me how carp dont cause any water problems,.


not what I said... SOME waters have CONDTIONS that cause common carp to overpopulate where they like any other fish cause issues....

not EVERY water has the right mix to grow big commons but the ones that do usually have great fishing for other species

if you take every carp out of the Missouri river it will still run muddy just like it did before common carp where even in it



trapper_2 said:


> the dnr spends millions if not billions of dollars a year to eradicate carp ,.


myth....show me......bike paths and new bathrooms at a lake renovation do not count



trapper_2 said:


> ,.out your a$$ ,.


 :roll:



trapper_2 said:


> ,.im going to do my part in carp eradication all summer and spring and fall and winter. ,.


knock your self out, just READ the regs where you go never know where you may see a new carp regulation 



trapper_2 said:


> ,.i bought my first boat this year and it is not a cheap thing to get into bowfishing costs alot more then rod and real. you could easily dump 40 grand plus into setting up a custom airboat for bowfishing which is what alot of guys down south use then add the gas in thats required to run it. it gets expensive but its well worth it. so bowfishing puts alot more money into the economy then rod and real ever will.,.


that's why the euro carpers will out number the hard core bfers cost of the sport is prohibitive

wadding ton NY and Austin Texas chamber of commerce have documented some carping events that have dumped 500k in a week into local economies yes 1/2 A mILLON dOLLARS


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## MoCarp

e.joe said:


> As far as money spent on bowfishing vs. carp angling, well the boats alone bury them. Here is my newest, $16,000 mainly for bowfishing and customized for bowfishing.....


I would be wizzed off too if I spent that much and could only kill one good fish per day, how long would that take? 10 minutes?

like I said,...that's why the euro carpers will out number the hard core bfers cost of the sport is prohibitive

but where we lack in max expence we make up in numbers

Waddington NY and Austin Texas chamber of commerce have documented some carping events that have dumped 500k in a week into local economies yes 1/2 a Million Dollars, ed I am sure you have that copy from daves meeting with the NY Dept of tourism?



e.joe said:


> go to any bass pro, cabelas or gander and you will find loads of bowfishing gear. Only stuff for carp are some uncle josh dough bait cans.!


really? found these at cabelas

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... ISO-8859-1


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## e.joe

Wow!! A rod!! Guess you can put that right next to the uncle josh carp dough! Nothing at all like the full bowfishing section there.....
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/commo ... jsp.form23

Bowfishing....cost prohibitive?? Once again your way off the mark. A complete set up can be bought from cabelas, bow, arrow reel and rest for $135. And all you need to do is walk the shore.
I like cabelas. Our bowfishing club gets invited there and to Bass Pro shops many times every year for the various shows they do. We put up a booth and tell loads of people about bowfishing, get many started there too. I actually do 5 bowfishing workshops every spring and summer at 2 different Bass Pro Shops. It get advertised in their paper and everything. 
Here.....check it out!
















Funny.....I never see a carp angling booth there. Never seen a carp angling nothing there! Looks like they really like bowfishing dont it?! Tells you something dont it!

But moo......you never answered my question. A very important question to the many many outdoorsmen all over the nation, why do you and peta use the same tactics to try and harm ones outdoor interests. You and carp anglers all over have demonstrated that many times. Right here in this thread infact.......

.again, carp fishermans pic......









And here is a pic from petas anti bowfishing portion of their site......









You are using the same anti tactics as peta, and you have the nerve to call yourself an outdoorsman? You are a devisive anti in my opinion. You and the rest of the radical carp anglers are extremely harmful to the outdoor sports in general in my opinion and should be shunned by other outdoor groups for the radicals you are, again, in my opinion.

They use the same tactic over and over that peta uses to try and turn popular opinion against bowfishing. They ARE birds of a feather.

And please, let us know the name of the fisheries biologist from Lady Bird lake that said carp should be protected. Lets have the name and dept. so we can check your statement for fact. :lol: :lol:


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## MoCarp

the barrel picks shows 5 flathead cats, not on ice, not for the pot "wasted" ready to be dumped under some bridge, or boat ramp after a long night and one too many beers, flat heads ARE the ultimate common carp predator, removing them just because they where available targets does not jive with your save the planet mantra

as far as lbj lake.......33 inch limit, only one over per day...live with it


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## MoCarp

nice cats  










ice fishin :-?










are those walleyes???










last bit not least a small muskie for cryin out loud


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## carp_killer

first off i would like to know how my post got edited half of what i originally posted is gone.

mo you never once ceize to amaze me with your horrible arguments.

none of the other fish you listed are INVASIVE though like your worthless carp are.

every lake with big carp has good fishing for other species WRONG most lakes around here that have lots of carp the fishing sucks in. come to think of it the one lake i dont think ive seen anything in it but carp they do no good nothing but problems to a water system.

lake christina douglas county mn the dnr has killed it 3 times now because of a over abundance of carp. lake wagonoga kandiohi county mn rough fish barriers are being bought to put on all entrances to the lake and exits this lake use to have awesome walleye fishing and clarity ever since we started seeing carp it sucks. mississippi river in southern mn they want to spend a few billion to install a rough fish barrier.

i have never heard of a carp fishing tournament or carp fishing group in mn and im a member of a bowfishing association and know of 3 tournaments. and in all my times out bowfishing ive only met one carp angler and he was as thick headed on how great they are as you are he really liked it when i started shooting hognosed suckers. i didnt argue after i knew i wasnt going to get anywere with it i just got *****ed at the whole time but ignored him and continued to shoot my fish. more cost productive hahahahahahahaha thats hilarious bowfishing you could start for less than 100 dollars but could spend as much as you want on it. i agree 100% with ejoe that you and the rest of the carp huggers are working hand in hand with peta.

i have also never seen a euro fishing demonstration anywere but have seen bowfishing ones.

what place are you in to be telling us to live with it that we can only shoot one carp. why dont you live with it that were gunna bowfish no matter what you carp huggers think.

prove to me that the muskie was shot with a bow.

the walleye one is also a horrible pic but honestly the ones laying on the ground look like reds to me

the one with the perch is photoshopped and look at the fish no arrow hole

werent you just *****ing a little bit ago that the other cats werent on ice? then why are you complaining about that pic the fish are on ice and i bet will be ate.

look at that i answered all your questions and didnt have to frantically search the internet to find unfactual websites to back up my claims which in your case make no sense either.


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## blhunter3

Mo, Spiritwood Lake in ND, never had carp in it and now it does and the fishing now sucks. Mostly due to the carp.

Most of my carp this summer have gone to either Orientals or I throw them where I know game birds have nested, so the predators eat the fish and not the birds. Therefore nothign was wasted.


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## carp_killer

so if carp are so great tell me one thing they are good for other then the fight.

also have you ever realized that rod and real fishermen break laws to theres gunna be a bad egg in every group thats life. unfortunetly alot of those eggs seem to be in your group. i havent seen bowfishermen searching for pictures were the rod and reel people break the law and i hear alot more about overlimits caught on rod and real then i do about any bowfishing violations. those pictures you have proves nothing it isnt that hard to do a little photoshop work and have a realistic pic. then blur it up a bit so it isnt as easy to pick out the photoshop and right there you have enough info to fool alot of people and make us look bad. when i have people constantky complaining to me while im bowfishing which has happened twice once by a carp hugger the other by a muskie hugger it doesnt make my time very enjoyable. i believe there is a law against that too something like hunter/trapper/fishermen harrassment i believe its called which says harrassing a outdoorsmen is illegal. never once have i seen a bowfishermen bashing someone that was rod and reel fishing that was leaving them alone but yet all you have to do is uncase a bow in front of the rod and reel fishermen and holy hell starts


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## MoCarp

trapper_2 said:


> none of the other fish you listed are INVASIVE though like your worthless carp are. .


Lots of "good fish" are listed as invasive like large mouth bass
sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/general/columns/story?columnist=schultz_ken&page=g_col_Schultz_the-invasive-bass - 43k



trapper_2 said:


> every lake with big carp has good fishing for other species WRONG most lakes around here that have lots of carp the fishing sucks in. come to think of it the one lake i dont think ive seen anything in it but carp they do no good nothing but problems to a water system..


YOUR idea of BIG common carp is what? BIG is a relative term for those who weigh our fish...even ejoe can attest to the money euro anglers put into scales " I own a Ruben heation (sp)" most consider 20 pounds a good fish 30 -40 true biggies....a 50 is the holy grail --SO if you know a lake with lots of 40's please share.....love to see a established LBJ like water in ND 



trapper_2 said:


> lake christina douglas county mn the dnr has killed it 3 times now because of a over abundance of carp. lake wagonoga kandiohi county mn rough fish barriers are being bought to put on all entrances to the lake and exits this lake use to have awesome walleye fishing and clarity ever since we started seeing carp it sucks. mississippi river in southern mn they want to spend a few billion to install a rough fish barrier...


MN is a classic state for carp mismanagement, if you have too many carp, you have not enough pike/muskies or walleyes/bass.....over harvest of preds usually is the issue in those waters or the water quality sucks because of all the septic tanks surrounding the lake....sooner or later even in a killed lake the handful of carp survivors will out compete the others in a cesspool....clean up why the water quality that sucks ...limit harvest on preds, and you will never have to renovate that lake again...but if they did that, it would put the renovation arm of the dnr out of a job....why would they do that?



trapper_2 said:


> i have never heard of a carp fishing tournament or carp fishing group in mn and im a member of a bowfishing association and know of 3 tournaments. and in all my times out bowfishing ive only met one carp angler and he was as thick headed on how great they are as you are he really liked it when i started shooting hognosed suckers. i didnt argue after i knew i wasnt going to get anywere with it i just got *****ed at the whole time but ignored him and continued to shoot my fish. more cost productive hahahahahahahaha thats hilarious bowfishing you could start for less than 100 dollars but could spend as much as you want on it.


the highest payout in a American carp tourney was 1/4 a million bucks
regular tourneys pay out 5-10 grand....what does that tell you
www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpu ... 0_1429.pdf



trapper_2 said:


> i have also never seen a euro fishing demonstration anywere but have seen bowfishing ones..


www.lunkerlink.com/carp1-fishing.html - 6k



trapper_2 said:


> what place are you in to be telling us to live with it that we can only shoot one carp. why dont you live with it that were gunna bowfish no matter what you carp huggers think...


the controversy is on a 33" limit of ONE common carp harvested by ANY method in LBJ lake in Austin Texas 
, the limit was imposed by the TEXAS FISH AND GAME DEPT to protect a lucrative trophy common carp fishery known world wide



trapper_2 said:


> ..i answered all your questions and didnt have to frantically search the internet to find unfactual websites to back up my claims which in your case make no sense either.


nonfactual? like espn? ROLMFAO 8)


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## blhunter3

Mocarp, you espn article was talking about the largemouth bass, being unwated in a couple lakes in NV, and Japan. Where as common carp are listed in the contenintal USA.

More and bigger predators doesn't work as well as you think, sure it helps to have more northerns or muskies, but they can't eat all of thee baby carp. Once they get up to a couple pounds nothing can eat them.


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## MoCarp

flathead cats can and do eat commons up to 6 pounds.....

in western Kansas pike have been documented in feeding exclusively on baby carp

in closing is no coincidence in waters that produce carp in the mid 30's are clear and have great pred populations, many also in areas that have no firearms rules that preclude bfing


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## blhunter3

MoCarp said:


> flathead cats can and do eat commons up to 6 pounds.....
> 
> in western Kansas pike have been documented in feeding exclusively on baby carp
> 
> in closing is no coincidence in waters that produce carp in the mid 30's are clear and have great pred populations, many also in areas that have no firearms rules that preclude bfing


How many places have flathead carp? Not to many. Sure fish can eat exclusively on baby carp but they will never get all of them. I think you may need to rethink your stance. Carp=bad fish, there are no ifs, ands, or buts. Its been a proven fact by many many people.


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## MoCarp

ok let met put it this way.....how do the english have carp lakes, with ducks, weeds and great water quality? does pond water in england different than ours, carp are king there, revered like LMbass here...they ALSO have LMbass....yet THE most fished for quarry is carp.....everyone of my posts can be documented.......

Carp are not 'bad" in every water they inhabit.......if they where then after 125 years of having common carp the other fishing should have sucked right? all waters have boom and bust cycles some are more stable and the cycle may last decades, some just a few years

my point of all this is eurofishing " sophisticated bank fishing" is a growing way to fish, common carp is the best quarry for this kind of fishing and with that more and more folks wanting bigger better fishing

now it is legal to Bf a LMbass in Nebraska, but I bet you would not hold a Bfing tourney for bass the same weekend as a FLW bass event would you?

well Bfing clubs do just that at many major carp events nationally
and they wonder why we have "issues"


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## carp_killer

this will be my final post in this thread since someone keeps editing my stuff and it is going NOWERE

CARP ARE WORTHLESS get it threw your ****ing head.

if europe fishing is so great and the carp are managed better there then why the hell are you here? just to piss us off? move to europe and catch and manage all the worthless no good carp you want.

most bowfishing clubs have there tournys scheduled several months in advance its the carp anglers that cause the issues not us. and besides a bowfishermen has just as much right to be on the lake as any rod and real angler does

are you that god damned dumb that you think lots of 6lb carp get ate by flatheads. do you have any idea how big of a cat it would take to eat that big of a carp let alone alot of them.

i dont give a damn that bass are invasive in japan this is america the last time i checked. like said before if you dont like it leave.

anything over 25lbs is a big fish to me to most people that bowfish its just a nice fish.

carp mismanagement hahahahahahaha the only management that should be done for carp is trying to kill them all so i guess your right mn along with everyother state has mismanagement

what your tournys pay out doesnt tell me ****.

yes unfactual how do you expect us to believe something coming from a anti bowfishing website once again are you that ****ing dumb?

im only 15 and i can figure this stuff out and make my own arguments. your how old and have to go all over the net to find a arguement to paste onto here :eyeroll:

once again CARP ARE WORTHLESS!!!!!!!!


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## blhunter3

It doesn't matter if the common carp have been in a water system for 125 years or 1, they still ruin the water and they are still getting into new waters. Quit Comparing USA to Europe. Two different places, thus two different ecosystems.


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## MoCarp

big cats... flats and blues even big gar for that matter are awsome preds, one of the few fish that can take on a 6 pound carp, in fact I have used small 3-4 pound carp on trot lines and caught flats as small as 14 pounds on them, a flat will eat stuff 1/3 its body length






















































this is a 6 pound carp


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## weasle414

MoCarp said:


> their is NO study that substantiates common carp feed on eggs


I have *seen* them feeding on eggs *personally!!!* I see it happen wherever there are bluegills and bass around burying their noses in huge piles of the sunnys and bass' eggs in the early part of bowfishing season. That is absolutely proposterous that you can even say we can't prove it. You know what, this spring I'll take some pictures of carp doing it for you. Last year I saw dozens of carp eating eggs and every single one of them stopped as soon as my white fiberglass arrow pulled them away from the nests.


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## weasle414

I love how whenever you ran out of arguments you just " :roll: " or tried quoting someone elses 'facts' that would later be busted.

I honestly don't think you could've ever been a bowfisherman and still have the same opinion as you do now. You may have done it once or twice but if you have really gone out there and spent the hours that myself, trapper and bl have on the lake you'd see first hand what they do. Every single year, for instance, I crappie fish before bowfishing season starts and the water is crystal clear and I can see the fish perfectly in Deer Lake. About a week or so before May 1st the carp move in from the deep water and what happens? I can't find my crappies! They've all disappeared in the mucky water! Where could they have gone? I don't know, because the carp crapped up the water and the lakeshore owners are ****** about it! I have had experiences with your type before, both in person and through e-mails to me personally and I can tell you that 80% of those people where smart people because by the time I was done explaining what's wrong with carp they had changed their minds. I'm not even going to waste any of my time trying to tell you about it because others already have informed you but apparently thickheadedness is your strongest trait.


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## weasle414

Hold on a sec... I guess I'm not quite finished yet. This picture was taken May 17th, 2008. It is of myself, Rednek and our friend Adam at a bowfishing tournament we shot at in southern MN.










We ended up with 75 rough fish and it was a darn good day for the lakeshore owners that flagged us down to see how we did. We probably stopped and talked to 6 or 7 lakeshore owners that day and NONE of them had ANYTHING but positive things to say about what we where doing and how we where doing it. Every single one of them was happy to see that many of them gone from their lake and all of them even told us where to go next to find big numbers. We even had one person pull up on a road next to the lake and tell us what bay to go to and he didn't even live on the lake! He just fished it and told us where he wants them to be gone from!! Seems like you're a bit outnumbered here.

There may be 3 times the number of carp angling club members than bowfishing club members, but I can guarantee you'll find that the carp huggers are far outnumbered by disgruntled lakeshore owners and fisherman in this country.

Here's a couple more from days that I've gotten compliments and "thank you's" from lakeshore owners, boaters, fishermen, and just members of the community in general...




























Even as we stunk up the McDonalds parking lot people stopped to congradulate us and tell us their thoughts on the carp; none of the comments was in favor of them, fyi.


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## e.joe

Talk about being thanked for removing carp from lakes.......we do several tournaments here in Illinois, but mostly were doing big 20 shoots due to the hassle of disposal. when we were getting permits from the Chain of Lakes State Park, the fisheries biologist there almost begged us to do numbers shoots to remove as many carp as possible. If that dont tell you something I dont know what does.
Carp eating fish eggs is not the problem as much as the carp feeding and creating the huge silt clouds. The silt will always settle and will cover the eggs causing the whole spawn to be ruined. Lots of studies show that.

CARP- The worlds most destructive fish!


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## MoCarp

weasle414 said:


> .
> Nice "safe' deck :lol:
> does your insurance company know about that modification? they will now :wink:


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## MoCarp

weasle414 said:


> I crappie fish before bowfishing season starts and the water is crystal clear and I can see the fish perfectly in Deer Lake. About a week or so before May 1st the carp move in from the deep water and what happens? I can't find my crappies! They've all disappeared in the mucky water! Where could they have gone?


so you do what with your left over crappie minnows?










these are catfish "minnows"









Bowfins are another great carp pred...your in MN do you spear pike?


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## blhunter3

Yes, we can spear pike in certian MN lakes. Left I have always used all of my minnows.


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## rednek

> MoCarp Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:09 am Post subject:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Nice "safe' deck
> does your insurance company know about that modification? they will now


my platform is plenty safe, before you cut down something try it, otherwise if you dont know what your talkin about shut up and quit actin like you do.

im guessin since your not on here your on the phone callin me into the insurance company, huh? :lame: before you start makin threats figure out who stuff is whos.


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## MoCarp

I don't need to call.....posting makes info 'public" I doubt you went through a coast guard approval process on your modification...if you do get into a boating issue/accident it most likely would void your insurance...many states will not allow boats on the water without valid insurance....if you shot a tourney and the water patrol inspected your boat you would get a situation, and you would not get a temp boat operators permit......that is if I remember it right


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## weasle414

First of all I don't even use minnows when I'm crappie fishing in the spring and when I use them in the winter they all get used or I freeze them in the bucket before I dump them in a corn field or my garden for fertalizer.

Secondly it's perfectly legal and safe to have the mods on Redneks boat like he's got it. If you've ever shot off a platform you'd know it's no more unsafe for us than shooting right out of the bow of the boat.

I, personally, do not spear northerns. I fish for them every once in a great while, but I always catch and release.


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## blhunter3

MoCarp said:


> I doubt you went through a coast guard approval process on your modification...if you do get into a boating issue/accident it most likely would void your insurance...many states will not allow boats on the water without valid insurance....if you shot a tourney and the water patrol inspected your boat you would get a situation, and you would not get a temp boat operators permit......that is if I remember it right


I doubt that the boat patrol would care about the platform, they would care more about getting the carp out of the lake.

Everytime I have been stopped by a CO while bowfishing, they tell me more places to shoot them.


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## weasle414

BL, that's just it... I don't think it's illegal to have platforms on boats because I don't know how many CO's and DNR officials have stopped and talked to me after a long day of bowfishing and NONE of them have said anything bad about the platform on my boat and it's quite frankly a bit more scary than the one on Reds boat. Heck, I don't think I've gotten a negative response from any of them about what I'm doing and most of them come to see me specifically because they know I'm cleaning out carp and to see just how well I did!


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## e.joe

I wouldnt worry about platforms. Carp anti hunters have been talking about calling the coast guard and having them inspect boats at bowfishing shoots so they would give them tickets for being overloaded or having platforms for many years now but nobody ever got a ticket. Its just another peta like tactic these guys wanted to use to try and stop bowfishing.

They also boasted of breaking the law themselves by stocking /releasing carp into public lakes where no carp existed before. One officer of the carp anglers group was brought to trial, and while no evidence other than posting on web sites was avail., the case was dismissed. But the postings tell you alot about the disregard for the law that these eco-polluters have. 
Radical anti hunters......just like peta!
Ive got some downloaded comments from the carp anglers forum where this guy was bragging about stocking carp.....Ill dig them out later and post them up.


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## rednek

its not illegal to have a platform, hes tryin to scare ya, like again :lame:


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## MoCarp

blhunter3 said:


> Mo, Spiritwood Lake in ND, never had carp in it and now it does





weasle414 said:


> First of all I don't even use minnows when I'm crappie fishing in the spring and when I use them in the winter they all get used or I freeze them in the bucket before I dump them in a corn field or my garden for fertalizer





 e.joe said:


> They also boasted of breaking the law themselves by stocking /releasing carp into public lakes where no carp existed before. One officer of the carp anglers group was brought to trial, and while no evidence other than posting on web sites was avail., the case was dismissed. .





e.joe said:


> Ive got some downloaded comments from the carp anglers forum where this guy was bragging about stocking carp.....Ill dig them out later and post them up.


the point of my "minnows" post was to show how common carp "invade" many many minnows sold are actually common carp and waters once devoid get stocked by the unknowing not the carps fault...

as far as euro carpers stocking.... yes some HAVE stocked private waters where it is perfectly legal....

ed ....trying to say Dave did something illegal when he was dismissed from any wrong doing is libelous and be careful what you post....

for a while Bfers would "report" movers and shakers in the euro carper world for "stocking" carp....no carp clubber has ever been fined or ticked for stocking carp....yet the Mississippi state chair of a bfing group WAS ticked for illegally dumping fish, including some young gator gar under a highway bridge, this after a tourney where a fee was charged for fish disposal

tit for tat


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## lesserhunter

most of the minnows sold are NOT carp.

stocking a invasive species what will you people think of next :eyeroll: you will ruin every lake and river before you are happy wont you.

dave was completely wrong with doing what he did and it was illegal weather you want to admit it or not. we can say whatever we want about him. you bash our people we can say one thing about yours.

i was a first time bowfisher this year and seen many instances were carp made the water dirty. trapper bl rednek weasle are all very dedicated bowfisherman and spend lots of time on the water i got a chance to shoot with them this summer they know alot more about these fish then you do.


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## MoCarp

lesserhunter said:


> most of the minnows sold are NOT carp..


true that...some are rudd 



lesserhunter said:


> stocking a invasive species what will you people think of next
> ..


like bass in ponds..or browns in streams? they are listed as invasive too



lesserhunter said:


> dave was completely wrong with doing what he did and it was illegal weather you want to admit it or not...


the public record speaks for itself the case was dismisssed because no wrong doing was found



lesserhunter said:


> we can say whatever we want about him. you bash our people we can say one thing about yours....


you can speak the truth...your Mississippi state chair WAS cited for dumping under a bridge... public record...and yall still kept him as state chair....



lesserhunter said:


> i was a first time bowfisher this year and seen many instances were carp made the water dirty. trapper bl rednek weasle are all very dedicated bowfisherman and spend lots of time on the water i got a chance to shoot with them this summer they know alot more about these fish then you do.


I have been hunting and fishing twice as much as some of yall have been alive...sometime all is not as it seems...muddy water is caused by many things, sometimes one of the few fish that can live in soil soup is common carp...boats, jet skis, wind action and source point pollution can all foul water.....too many carp are a symptom of something wrong.....once that is seen then permanent solutions can effect quality change


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## rednek

> like bass in ponds..or browns in streams? they are listed as invasive too


funny :roll:



> I have been hunting and fishing twice as much as some of yall have been alive


really? i highly doubt that.



> boats, jet skis, wind action and source point pollution can all foul water.....too many carp are a symptom of something wrong.....once that is seen then permanent solutions can effect quality change


huh, how about lakes without a boat access with carp in them or lakes without carp and every weekend have a ton of boats and jet skis?


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## MoCarp

trapper_2 said:


> im only 15


my age = 49 - 15 your age = 34

( my experience afield ) = me having twice the years a field than you have even been alive......if your run with the big dogs you can't stay on the porch and whimper with the rest of the pups

evolving as an angler


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## rednek

> MoCarp Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:40 pm Post subject:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> trapper_2 wrote:
> im only 15


thats trapper, im rednek, rednek not 15



> ( my experience afield ) = me having twice the years a field than you have even been alive......if your run with the big dogs you can't stay on the porch and whimper with the rest of the pups


because your a weekend warrior, im out everyday ( for an exception of a few days here and there). the last few years its been that way and when i was in school i was out before and after school, ever since i was knee high. i know my stuff, you can throw me with any big dog you want, but i can asure you i wont be the one whimperin.


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## MoCarp

your assuming.....most of my years I spent 300 or more days afield


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## rednek

> MoCarp Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:19 pm Post subject:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> your assuming.....most of my years I spent 300 or more days afield


 just like your assumin?


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## blhunter3

Age has nothing to do with how your arguement is better then the other person's. Just because your age in x and his age is x, doesn't matter. What matters are facts.


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## e.joe

Libel? HA! Just pointing out the facts on what he bragged about on the carp anglers forum.....as a matter of fact , check this paste from the cag forum everyone. Moocarp here had a stock tank full of carp also, just read what he posted on the cag forum, posted on a public forum......(btw, he used to post as missouricarpee there....)

missoucarpee
Jun 13 2005, 08:27 PM 
Post #60

Obsessed Carper

Group: Member
Posts: 1517
Joined: 10-June 04
From: Southwest, Missouri
Member No.: 737

I have located a small under 100 acres city lake not far from me that has no carp--that I have ever caught so if it has any the population is very low--they have algae problems due to the water being A) too fertile and the water too clear I plan on liberating the best female mirrors and some big commons and see what happens!!! 
-------------------
"for those about to carp--we salute you"
This is you Brain on carp ( insert sound of smoldering drag)
This is your Brain on drugs >>>----------|>

and one more.........he actually was going to try and condition carp so they wouldnt get caught after release!! lol!!!

missoucarpee
Jun 14 2005, 10:42 AM 
Post #3 
Obsessed Carper
Group: Member
Posts: 1518
Joined: 10-June 04
From: Southwest, Missouri
Member No.: 737

Any test requests?

--I plan on a boilie/pellet test--two opposing boilies/pellets hair rigged hookless on 30 inches of braid thats tied to a dowl 19 inches appart lowerd into a hungry mass of baby carp and see which boile has more action????? over time it could tell us "things"

also plan on worm and corn avoidance therapy "shock--- beat the hell outa the side of the tank every time they look at corn!!! CLANK CLANK CLANG"--- for better release survivability 
--------------------
"for those about to carp--we salute you"
This is you Brain on carp ( insert sound of smoldering drag)
This is your Brain on drugs >>>----------|>

I dont want to make a giant post here full of pastes, but check the long post at the bottom of this thread for loads of info re. people bragging about carp stocking.....

http://www.ngpc.state.ne.us/cgi-bin/ult ... 009190;p=2


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## nodakoutdoors.com

There has been a lot of people going waaaaaaaay over the line on forum rules on this one.

Don't let your emotions get the best of you.

I will not warn those again.


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