# Georgia Boys shoot too many Ducks in ND



## Ithaca1

Just heard from a friend from ND G/F that a warden caught 5 Georgia boys with 350 ducks. Thats what I call Southern Hospitality. And NR's wonder why we get mad. Talked to a few other wardens and they are catching quite a few NR's using lead shot and over limits. One bunch had a case of lead and no steel in their possesion while hunting a slough.


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## ffneilson

Unfortunatly it is people like that giving all NRs a bad name.


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## fishunt

OMG not another one...... they dont show respect and follow our laws and mother natureal


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## BROWNDOG

fishunt------SOME--- NOT ALL NR's, there are bad apples in every basket, these same people most likely break laws in there own state as well..


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Let's wait until there's at least the press release before we start this one.


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## fishunt

we need more game warrens


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## born to hunt

No. We just need people to stop being so damn greedy. I don't think the NR/R issue should even come into play here. Whether types like these are from Jamestown ND or Los Angeles they should be dealt a heavy blow.


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## Forky

:withstupid:

I agree with Born to Hunt, why does this have to be a N/R issue? To me it is licensed hunters (I am assuming they had licenses) becoming excessively greedy and expoliting the resource. To say that a N/R is the only one capable of that is ridiculous.

I am appalled by the crime they committed, not their address.

Forky


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## Kyle B

This story is not accurate.

What happened was one of the hunters in the field didn't have his license on him. The warden followed them back to where they were staying to verify the license. When they got there he searched the freezers and found ducks that did not have proper tags on them. This is no different than if the warden searched your freezer midway through a season, found 50 ducks in there that weren't tagged and wrote you a ticket for being over your daily limit. Bad judgement by the landowner (not tagging the ducks), but this is not a case of someone walking out of the filed with 300 ducks over their shoulder.


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## born to hunt

Can you imagine, for a second, taking home 300 ducks? Or 300 of any critter? That would be shooting 2 cases of shells...the dog would be really tired...

people used to do that....what a sad deal.

I'll take my MN 4 and be happy any day!


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## Leo Porcello

Kyle B said:


> This story is not accurate.
> 
> What happened was one of the hunters in the field didn't have his license on him. The warden followed them back to where they were staying to verify the license. When they got there he searched the freezers and found ducks that did not have proper tags on them. This is no different than if the warden searched your freezer midway through a season, found 50 ducks in there that weren't tagged and wrote you a ticket for being over your daily limit. Bad judgement by the landowner (not tagging the ducks), but this is not a case of someone walking out of the filed with 300 ducks over their shoulder.


Nothing in any post said they were walking out of the field. Illegal is Illegal no matter how you slice it. Since you know more details are you saying the farmer that lives in the house owned all the ducks or a good portion of them and the GA boys are innocent victums?


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## DJRooster

Seems to me that there were some North Dakota deer hunters that were a little over their limit last year. The main thing is they got caught and hopefully they will "stick it to um."


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## Kyle B

While the post didn't say they were walking out of the field, that was the implication. Yes, Illegal is illegal. The Warden was doing his job, and I think everyone realizes that. But there is a difference between shooting over your daily limit and not having your ducks tagged properly.

I don't know you PorkChop, but I would venture to guess that you don't have little tags hanging off of all the ducks in your freezer? I know I don't and if the same standard was applied in a similar situation....I would have a ticket also.

The ducks that were in the freezers were shot over the entire season by several hunters. The land owner (maybe freezer owner is a better term?)is the only one charged (that I know of) for the freezer incident, the other hunters were allowed to go back to Georgia.


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## Leo Porcello

Kyle,

Thank you for more insight. I do think if the warden knocked on lets say 100 waterfowler's doors and checked for tags, 95 would not have them. I guess that is where the whole processed meat comes into play (another bucket of worms). Anyway like I said thank you for more info. It will be good to see the press release so all or most the the holes will be filled in.

BTW I agree this is not a NR issue. There are plenty of Res breaking the laws in this great state. One only need be out in the field on openning day to hear the shots going off 20 minutes before shooting. Who knows what goes on in some of the huge posted farms in the middle of nowhere where access is limited.


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## octnov

I am a Non Resident and I swear that I have never abused the limits in my two trips to Paradise. However, on our first trip north my buddy and I were cleaning our 3 or 4 birds one afternoon and some guys from Tennessee were cleaning their birds. I watched and asked how many guys are there in your group and was told 3. Then I asked how long have you been up here, response first day. OK that adds up to a maximum of I believe 18 birds for a daily limit for the three and 36 for a possession limit, even though it was there first day afield. Well, they were cleaning their 42nd as we finished our what looked like a paltry, don't know how to hunt limit of 6 or 8. These same guys were going to be there for 5 days and to put it mildly,by the end they had to have well over 150 birds stuffed in coolers. Here is the kicker, one of the guys claimed to be a state natural resource employee. I agree this stinks. Gives all NR's a black eye, but please don't put all of us in the same basket of bad apples. Some think it is the kill only that is important, I happen to still remember the days afield and all the fun and sights we encounter each time we come North. What the h### would you do with that many birds anyway, I bet most went in the garbage after a year, un eaten and freezer burned. :******: :******:  :******: OCTNOV


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## waterwolf

OCTNOV,

Why didn't you call the warden or TIP? People like that need to be taught a lesson.


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## dblkluk

Ithaca Where did this happen? I have heard of a similar bust near Douglas.


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## Goosepride

Certainly not just a NR issue...like PC said, it happens with both RES and NR.


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## Ron Gilmore

Could it be that Kyle is talking about a separate incident? I will wait for a news release on all of this to form an opinion. PC points out that illegal is just that, regardless!

Over the years we have seen people defend or try and down play things like this. None of us can claim to be lily white through out our hunting years. But busted is busted, pay the piper! The image is already been formed and there is no turning back!


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## nodakoutdoors.com

I think you're right Ron, it may be a separate issue. Kyle, this didn't happen in your neck of the woods...it happened north of Sakakawea.

I haven't gotten the release yet, but it sounds like fowl play.

At any rate, let's wait until it's official.


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## Kyle B

We are talking about the same incident. It did happen around Douglas. I personally know the person who was charged and spoke to him shortly after the incident occurred and again yesterday.

There is always more to the story. More to what is printed in the D&R press releases, more than is written in tickets, more than comes out in legal proceedings, and yes more than is posted on public Internet Forums.

I am not trying to defend the offense of not tagging your birds before you put them in the freezer, that's the law and it should be obeyed. However, I do not believe that offense rises to the level of a hunter in the field knowingly shooting over his limit. I do not believe the person that is charged is not paying the piper and dealing with the situation as provided by the law. I do not believe I have attempted to defend or down play what was initially stated, but I have offered "another piece of the story" from the initial tagline of "a warden caught 5 Georgia boys with 350 ducks"......those who are willing will take this into account and make their minds up on what they believe to be the truth. I would only ask that rather than making quick uninformed judgements that people at least make some attempt to find out more facts before rendering statements such as "OMG not another one...... they dont show respect and follow our laws and mother natureal(sp)", "No. We just need people to stop being so damn greedy.", and "becoming excessively greedy and expoliting(sp) the resource.".


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## HonkerExpress

Now, I know I like the taste of ducks and geese as much as the next guy, but what in the h3ll would you do with that many birds? lol. Its just to bad they don't take those guys out and shoot them, lol. Just joking, but its to bad there has to be stupid people like that out there. I just don't understand why you can't have as much fun going out and shooting your limit and then letting the birds rest. Its too bad there has to the the select few "special individuals" that feel the need to be Idiots like that. Must have been the same guys that rode the "short" bus to school everyday. Just my 2 cents.


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## Bob Kellam

Kyle and Chris are absolutly correct on this one guy. Wait until the press release comes out before making statements that you may regret.

This is *NOT* a Resident/Nonresident issue please do not make it one!!!

Bob


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## J.D.Coke

What does retardation have to do with anything?? Maybe you have never been around the retarded or helped out at the Special Olympics? I think the retarded are a higher class of people than poachers. Poachers know better. Retards don't all have the capacity to make certain decisions. You know you can make fun of them but you know one day you may have a retarded child, grand child or some thing and you will come to realize the tired out "retarded jokes" are as worthless as the people that tell them.


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## Leo Porcello

J.D.Coke said:


> What does retardation have to do with anything?? Maybe you have never been around the retarded or helped out at the Special Olympics? I think the retarded are a higher class of people than poachers. Poachers know better. Retards don't all have the capacity to make certain decisions. You know you can make fun of them but you know one day you may have a retarded child, grand child or some thing and you will come to realize the tired out "retarded jokes" are as worthless as the people that tell them.


I could not agree more. uke:


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## HonkerExpress

I didn't mean anything by it, so take it as you want it. I didn't even mean to make a joke at someone else's expence, so I guess I am sorry you took it the wrong way, thats all I can say. Didn't mean to ruffle so many feathers, laters.


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## Lvn2Hnt

Ok, I'm confused. According to the law,


> No one may possess, store, transport, or ship at any one time, more than a possession limit of migratory game birds.


So, does this mean that even if your birds are cleaned, brested and in little plastic baggies, that you can't have more than 12 at any given time?

I know, I know, stupid question, but a question nonetheless. I've always thought that was null and void after the meat had been taken off the bird. Now, were does the "processing" come in?


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## Nolte

Let's try to keep the discussion about the topic at hand.

I agree let's wait till al the details come out before we start a NR or Southern Boys witchhunt.

Anyone who gives the "law is the law", brash excuse obviously has never had any sort of an outdoor experience that may have been questionable. I could tons of examples where the right moral thing to do would get you a ticket from a CO that is a dink. Anyone who says otherwise is either too blind to acknowledge it or a hypocrite. These are the same guys that have 800-tip-dnr on their speeddial and call on everything they think might be wrong without any discretion.

Also, anyone who says they have every single game or fish animal marked, dated and tagged, or not ever had one over posession in their freezer, needs to take a few steps out of their glass house once in awhile.

Lastly, one of my best buddies had a brother that had Down Syndrome and I was not upset by any comments at all. Mainly because I really don't care. Now if someone went up to my buddies brother and called him that, it would be a different story. People need to get a little thicker skin and let things go.

All of these PC stories about things that offend certain people make me want to uke: .


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## the Bender

I think there is some validity to the complaint that NR's have a higher tendancy to break rules. Look at it like this: How many resident hunters to Non-residents in Nodak? Do Nodak residents generally appreciate what resources they have?
Logically I would think NR's would be tempted break rules for two primary reasons, 1) Oppritunity is great(Nodak Fowling is great) 2) On a week trip, what happens in Nodak stays in Nodak.
I grew up in Minot, and since live in MN. I've heard a lot of stories that make me believe that there are NR's spoiling the reputation for all. The issue will never die. Sorry to you honest hunters.
On the other hand Nodak boys aren't afraid to jump on these stories and it is convenient to always have a scapegoat. Recurrance on this issue seems to prove a couple things. 1) Residents are very protective of what they have. 2) NR's have made themselves targets, this didn't happen by accident. North Dakotans haven't imagined or cooked up this stuff. As NR's we need to try to change this perception. (as hard as that might be)
These stigmas may also make it easier for locals to think they can get away with somthing. 
In conclusion: Follow the rules yourself Resident or not. Turn in rule breakers Resident or not. Finally try to cut each other a little slack, until "WE KNOW FOR A FACT SOMEBODY IS CHEATING" 
Just think about it, I don't want to stir the pot. There are cheaters, and there are honest hunters. There is also in between. Hold yourself accountable.


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## djleye

I hear so many times that this guy did this,this guy did that. If someone does something illegal please report it. Tips is there for a reason. There are not enough wardens, nor could there ever be. 
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Wanton game violations need to be reported.


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## MRN

Kyle B said:


> We are talking about the same incident. It did happen around Douglas. I personally know the person who was charged and spoke to him shortly after the incident occurred and again yesterday.


What's the saying?
"We will be known by the company we keep."


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## Gary Bottger

born to hunt said:


> Can you imagine, for a second, taking home 300 ducks? Or 300 of any critter? That would be shooting 2 cases of shells...


lol You haven't seen many duck hunters shoot, now have ya?


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## Bob Kellam

Watch the newspapers tomorrow.

Bob


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## KEN W

It is in today's Minot paper......Guess what was said earlier is correct....along with a few charges not mentioned.The guy's name is Ferris Taylor of Pavo,Georgia.....

1.Over the limit on waterfowl
2.Laundering ducks for clients
3.Illegal possession of hen pheasants
4.Misrepresentation on a license app. for falsley claiming to be a resident.
5.Guiding and outfitting without a license

More charges may be filed in the future.


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## northdakotakid

Why don't we just head of the rumors and wild speculation right now with some actual facts, as taken from the Minot Daily News.

A Georgia man, Ferris "Bo" Taylor of Pavo, Georgia was arrested and charged with over limit possession of waterfowl, laundering ducks for clients, illegal possession of hen pheasants, misrepresentation on a license application for falsely claiming to be a North Dakota resident and outfitting without a license.

Game Warden Ken Skuza and warden supervisor Daryl Kleyer checked Taylor for a hunting license and discovered evidence on the other chargies while executing a search warrant on a farmstead owned by Taylor, in the Douglas area. The search discovered 351 whole ducks in freezers and three hen pheasants.

The investigation continues and more charges may be filed.


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## Bob Kellam

I guess it is a little more than not tagging your ducks properly Kyle.

Bob


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## gandergrinder

Would anyone be interested in drafting some stuff to place stiffer mandatory penalties on people who commit game violations in the State of North Dakota. I would be willing to help.

I am so sick and tired of these idiots doing this kind of crap.

Why do you think some people hate the guide and outfitter industry? Stuff like this really chaps my *** and it is not just one isolated incident. Add money to the equation and this is the kind of crap you get.

I'll do the research to get the statistics on game violations in this State.


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## NDJ

GG: This is where we should pick a new "battle". Sure all the $$$ going into PLOTS access is great, but what if that was earmarked for commercial enforcement?

Right now there is a bunch of cases like this that may not get investigated. If you could get enough money to hire 6-10 guys to do these types of investigations...get 2-3 gung-ho young wardens add 2-3 old "dope" cops, that know how to work informants & flip violators etc. etc. & build some big cases against these "outlaw" operations.

These cases are giant octipi...arms go out in many directions & this case or the Sheldon case can keep one guy busy for YEARS! right now you have several guys that can wack the arms off but only a few that can cut off the head....if we can get that changed, many more heads will get wacked.

Would also like to see legislation giving these guys broad power to suspend/revoke O/G licenses for cause...So a warden loses an over-limit case due to poor/inept prosecution, the G&F still can suspend a license 30 days(1st Offense, 60 days 2nd offense, lifetime 3rd etc.)...

Maybe even "award" operations that stay within the law...give them a seal of approval or something, these operations can advertise this & gain more clients, & more respect from landowners and residents & the outlaw ones will be shut down and history...

My thoughts on where I'd like to see the battles next session...


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## huntmaster

Klye B you said you new this guy did you also know he was illegally guiding or was this another person.


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## Kyle B

Since his name is finally public.....the rest of the story as I know it. I think most people will understand why I have held back some of this information as I did not want to identify who the actual person being charged is. In my opinion, and as easily noted on this board...public opinion is guilty until proven innocent.

Bo Taylor is a professional dog trainer. He has anywhere from 24-28 labs in training at any one time. He is considered by some to be one of the premier trainers in the nation and this past year has finished two Canadian Field Trial Champions in addition to many other accomplishments.

Why would a normal person (you or I) have 351 unprocessed ducks in our freezer? Probably not a good reason. Why would Bo Taylor have 351 unprocessed ducks? How long do you think it takes to go through ducks when you are training that many dogs every day?

Where all of the ducks wild? Doubtful, I know he gets farm raised ducks delivered from a farm in Iowa monthly to do live flyers for the dogs. I am sure a portion of the ducks were not farm raised ducks and they were hunted by hunters that were staying with Bo. I have not asked about the Hen Pheasants, but I do know that he gets Pheasants from the farm for training also and there is no restriction for Hens/Roosters from farm raised Pheasants.

Who are these hunters? Mainly Bo's dog clients. Some are friends, but I have never heard of Bo taking money to guide people hunting.

Bo Taylor is from Pavo, Georgia. Born and raised. 3 years ago he purchased a house in Douglas, North Dakota so that he could split time for training dogs between Douglas and Pavo....mainly because of North Dakota's mild summers. He spends approximately half of the year in each location. According to North Dakota's license regulations, he qualifies for a resident license. Apparently the Game Warden disagrees with this.

Who am I? I am a client of Bo Taylor's. I have entrusted him with two of my dogs, and he has done great things with them. I have known him for several years and consider him a close personal friend. I am originally from Louisiana, but know live in Atlanta and had the pleasure of hunting in North Dakota last year with my friend, Bo. I will be in North Dakota next week hunting, although some pieces of my trip have been disrupted by this incident. I will gladly sit down with anyone from this board who wants to discuss this further, and for that matter....the first round and the last round is on me.


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## DuckBuster

Shouldn't he have had some paperwork to back up his purchase of birds from a game farm? I know the game farm that my brother works at is pretty strict about paperwork/receipts.... the typical CYA (cover your azz).


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## KEN W

Don't you have to declare primary residency in one state?

If he declared that ND is his primary residency and not Georgia....he wouldn't be charged with doing it illegally.


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## Ron Gilmore

Kyle seems you are implying that the G&F got it wrong and your buddy walks on water!

Now I do not know this person, nor do I know all the details involved. What I do know is that dog trainers who I have known keep records of all of their purchases of game for this very reason. I could buy 5000 ducks and have them in a freezer and have shot each one of them and been legal as long as I have the documents. Plus the G&F are not going to spend the man hours on a prosecution of a person who would have things in order to show that!

In regards to the license issue. The law is clear on that, you have to have lived here for the time and done the things required to establish residency. The courts will decide these issues, and we will see what takes place. But until that time, I have a lot more faith in the G&F Wardens based upon the track record they have in regards to these types of things!


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## Duckslayer100

351 ducks...that's 702 breasts...wild or tame that's a lot of freakin meat!!! With that many dogs I'd be feedin them duck!


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## Ron Gilmore

one more thought Kyle, remember Tony Dean and his defense of Sheldon? The G&F had Sheldon pegged, but he buffaloed poor Tony!


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## djleye

Everyone is innocent!!!!!!!!! :eyeroll: Game wardens are just out to get Georgia guys!!! uke:

Don't even get me started on feeding ducks to dogs!!!!!! :******:


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## always_outdoors

I think this just became a NR issue.

If we are going to allow people who reside in other states claim residency just because they own a house here and spend 3-5 months up here, then we really have a problem much greater than 351 ducks. Besides, how do we know he is here all summer?


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## Kyle B

In order:

Paperwork: I am sure he has paperwork, but at this point it is a legal matter. They don't print all of this information in the newspaper. Like I said before, I don't believe all of the ducks were pen raised, but I would imagine some of them were. But that information doesn't have the same shock value as "5 Georgia boys caught with 351 ducks".

Primary Residence: I am not sure what North Dakota's requirements are. Apparently there is a difference of opninion between the warden, the person who gave Bo the license and Bo.

Walk on Water: Never said Bo walks on water. All I have said is there is more to the story than what has been stated. I would take the same stand Ron if you were charged with some offense that seems a little off.

Duckslayer100 and djleye: Are you serious?


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## dblkluk

Pretty easy to cover your illegal guiding by calling it "Dog Training" with your clients. 
Yep them game wardens is just out to get a feller!! :eyeroll: 
Kyle, I still don't understand how you can stand up for this kind of activity, I mean sure there might be "more to the story", But those are some serious charges, not just "untagged ducks" as you claimed in earlier post.


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## KEN W

Residency is living here for 6 months before you buy the license.

Or....the GNF will wave this if you can prove you live here and are employed here.

BUT....you can't claim your primary residence is in Georgia and buy a resident license here just because you live here the other 6 months.Then he would have to be a non-res. in Georgia.Don't know which he claimed....but I wouldn't think he wouldn't be arrested and charged with this count if he does claim ND as his primary residence.


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## Gary Bottger

All the birds I get from farms are banded so you can tell them apart from wild birds. Is this not he case for bringing in training birds from another state?

I would expect ND would have the same kind of laws regarding the number and amount of birds that can be held in possetion with out a license and such?


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## Kyle B

dblkluk said:


> Pretty easy to cover your illegal guiding by calling it "Dog Training" with your clients.
> Yep them game wardens is just out to get a feller!! :eyeroll:
> Kyle, I still don't understand how you can stand up for this kind of activity, I mean sure there might be "more to the story", But those are some serious charges, not just "untagged ducks" as you claimed in earlier post.


You know guys, its obvious that most of you have already made up your mind. Hopefully, I have assisted some of you with more information that may make this story make more sense. For that the hour or so I spent typing was worth it and I am glad I did it.

For everyone else, its a free country, you are free to speak, free to bash, free to do whatever you want within the law. Good luck to you in all your endeavors. North Dakota is a beautiful state that has great hunting opportunities that I will hopefully continue to be a part of for years to come.


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## tb

You gotta be kidding me KB. Anyone who would run a commercial hunting operation and keep that # of birds around in the middle of duck season with hunters coming and going all day every day is pretty thick. Or pretty arrogant.

Anyway, the big offense to me is guiding and outfitting without a license. There are a lot of unlicensed killing operations out there. This guy may be a dog trainer, but face it KB, there was also some major likking going on. Tame ducks from Iowa? Hahah. I doubt the jury is going to buy that one.

My hat is off to the warden and states attorney that put this one together. Also to Representative Porter who sponsored the guide/outfitter bill with teeth.

All we can do is hope to get these guys one by one.

Is there such a thing as an "ethical hunting guide"? Or is that an oxymoron, kinda like "jumbo shrimp"??

I'm starting to think that they are darn few of them.


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## tumblebuck

Just an observation here.... and I'm probably opening myself up to ridicule/accusations, but here goes.

I know many dog owners and amateur/pro trainers that keep unprocessed birds in their freezers. Myself included. I don't have 350 of them, but enough to last through the off-season for multiple training sessions with the dogs. These birds are not banded or otherwise identified in any way as game farm birds. Depending on where and who the group I'm training with on any given day, these birds are transported. I usually don't have more than my possession limit, so I think I'd be OK. However, I do know some of the more serious trainers routinely transport over their possession limits. I do not know if they carry "proper" documentation with them or not.

I have worked at many retriever hunt tests in the area shooting the "live flyer". For those unfamiliar with hunt tests, part of the test is the release of a live bird, be it duck/pheasant (hens included)/chuckar, that is shot and the dog retrieves it (simplified version). It is common at the end of the test to give away birds at the end of the test to those that want training birds. These birds are unmarked and no record of where they came frome. I have never given a second thought to picking up a couple of birds to take home. Until now, have never wondered what a CO would say if he stopped me on the way home from a test with a gun, truckload of dogs, and freshly (but slightly used) ducks/pheasants in the middle of June.

For those commenting about feeding the ducks to dogs....these birds aren't fit for consumption by the time your done using them. Birds are frozen/unfrozen/frozen so many times, and some dogs are not so gentle with them.

If this guy indeed trains 20+ dogs at a time, I can see how/why he has the ducks.

I am not defending anybody or commenting on the legality of the actions of the accused. From what I understand he was cited for more than just untagged ducks.


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## northdakotakid

What ever happened to having to pay state income taxes in order to claim your residency.

North Dakota sure does like to give things away for free...........


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## buckseye

I am pretty sure the G&F require all pen raised pheasant to be marked somehow. Wasn't this just decided last year or so???


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## Kyle B

tb said:


> You gotta be kidding me KB. Anyone who would run a commercial hunting operation and keep that # of birds around in the middle of duck season with hunters coming and going all day every day is pretty thick. Or pretty arrogant.
> 
> Anyway, the big offense to me is guiding and outfitting without a license. There are a lot of unlicensed killing operations out there. This guy may be a dog trainer, but face it KB, there was also some major likking going on. Tame ducks from Iowa? Hahah. I doubt the jury is going to buy that one.


This was not a commercial hunting operation, but it is being made out to be one by the state. I am one of the people that goes hunting with him and I have never paid Bo to go hunting.....and on the "its a good cover" theory: NO, my bill for dog training does not go up around hunting season.

Ducks from Iowa: Yes. Have you ever been involved in training a dog to compete in Field Trials?


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## tb

KB,

Read the law and you will find that this man is defined in ND as an outfitter. He gives his clients a ND hunt as part of the 'dog training' package. He has received consideration for providing a hunt. The wasy I understand it, the ND hunt is part of the package. He is an outfitter.


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## always_outdoors

KB. Although this Bo might be a great guy to you, there are just too many inconsistancies here. Does he claim residency in Georgia or ND? Where is the documentation on the birds? Which state does he file taxes in? Can he truly document that he lives here 6 months out of the year?

My guess is there is more to this story that the warden could enlighten all of us on if allowed to. If he contacted Georgia Authorities and they said he was a resident, then that is probably why the warden doesn't think he should have a residence license here.


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## Kyle B

tb said:


> KB,
> 
> Read the law and you will find that this man is defined in ND as an outfitter. He gives his clients a ND hunt as part of the 'dog training' package. He has received consideration for providing a hunt. The wasy I understand it, the ND hunt is part of the package. He is an outfitter.


If that were the case then the client's that did not go hunting would pay less for dog training, right? Do you have the law that you could send me or quote the pertinent excerpts that you are reading (not being a smart-&**, just think it would be beneficial for the discussion)?

Live2hunt: I don't know the answers to your questions. I imagine he can truly document the time he spends in North Dakota the same as you could.


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## Duckslayer100

I was jokin about the dog food thing...ease down fido... :roll:


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## Kyle B

Duckslayer100 said:


> I was jokin about the dog food thing...ease down fido... :roll:


It was so suttle I had to ask. Point taken!!!


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## Duckslayer100

no problemo my man, with a heated topic like this I can see where there may be confusion. Next time I'll be more obvious :beer:


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## Kyle B

Duckslayer: You know I met Phil Robertson a couple of years ago at an event in Louisiana. He's a little more "one-off" than he even appears in the video's. Quite a character though.


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## Duckslayer100

I tell you what, when it comes to that dude, I am more the impressed. IN his traditions video when he's commenting about not ever seeing "the crocodile man on tv" pick up a cotton mouth and than he blasts it a half dozen times with a .22, i laughed my butt off. He's deffinately out there, but he sure gets to the point. He says what he believes and sticks to it. Talk about backwoods....ceeeee-ripes. If only I could get tobacco stains on my beard like that...I'd have the ladies aaaaall over me! :wink:


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## Kyle B

Yeah, I fell off the couch when I saw him riding on the 4-wheeler, then blast that snake no less than a hundred times. My favorite duck commander moment of all time is when he shoots the deer from his duck stand......then he casually states "duck hunt turned to a deer killing" or something like that. Classic!


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## tb

KB,

Are you telling me that EVERY person at this guy's place this fall had a dog in training with him at the time they stayed in Douglas? Please, I know people think that us NoDakers are naive, but we're not friggin' imbeciles.


----------



## Kyle B

tb said:


> KB,
> 
> Are you telling me that EVERY person at this guy's place this fall had a dog in training with him at the time they stayed in Douglas? Please, I know people think that us NoDakers are naive, but we're not friggin' imbeciles.


I never said that every person at this guy's place was a client. I merely made a statement regarding your implication that "gives his clients a ND hunt as part of the 'dog training' package".

TB: I don't believe NoDakers are naive or imbeciles. The thought never crossed my mind. Nor do I believe that everyone from Georgia is inbred or whatever the other stereotypes are.


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## Ithaca1

Sorry Kyle I was only one duck off and oh I forgot about the 3 hen pheasants, guiding without a license, ect!!

In my mind that is more than 300 hundred ducks he stole from the law abiding sportsman of the US and Canada to hunt this fall. I have no sympathy for this individual. I don't have a problem with NR's hunting in our state as long as they behave. NR hunters have just as much right to hunt migratory birds here in ND because their Duck Stamp, DU, Delta dollars are spent in this state to enhance the production of waterfowl. These are federal birds.

When the ND Game & Fish does a press release on a case they usually have substantial and sufficient evidence for a conviction. If I were you I wouldn't be proud to know this game thief. Ride with a horse thief you get labeled as one too. Just another shining example of a wanna be guide not playing by the book(Sheldon,ect....)


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## BROWNDOG

Sounds like this guy might want to sell the ranch :wink:


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## ND decoy

I don't think that this one passes the stink test. There are just too many things that don't add up. I think commen sense has to kick in here.

The biggest thing that ND hunting is lacking is game wardens. We need more. I don't want to feel like there is a baby sitter out there, but there are not enough of them.


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## SiouxperDave25

djleye said:


> Don't even get me started on feeding ducks to dogs!!!!!! :ticked:


I hear ya. Everyone knows you feed them to the cats. :lol:


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## Kyle B

Ithaca1 said:


> If I were you I wouldn't be proud to know this game thief. Ride with a horse thief you get labeled as one too.


Thanks for the advice Ithaca1. I didn't know there were any horses involved, but if that's the case then everything changes.

Have a good year hunting, and I wish you all the best.


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## KB

I'm not sure who Kyle B is, but it is not me, Kyle Blanchfield. I for one hope this guy gets the chair.

The law is very clear about taging and storing birds. I don't care if this guy is a dog trainer or not. We will soon find out many were killed in ND all for training dogs..... Kyle B please inform these folks your true name and where you are from. Please don't drag me in on this.

The real Kb.

Kyle Blanchfield
Devils Lake, ND


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## Kyle B

KB said:


> I'm not sure who Kyle B is, but it is not me, Kyle Blanchfield. I for one hope this guy gets the chair.
> 
> The law is very clear about taging and storing birds. I don't care if this guy is a dog trainer or not. We will soon find out many were killed in ND all for training dogs..... Kyle B please inform these folks your true name and where you are from. Please don't drag me in on this.
> 
> The real Kb.
> 
> Kyle Blanchfield
> Devils Lake, ND


Kyle:

I have previously said who I was and that I live in Atlanta. My last name, for the record is Broussard. Please don't anyone confuse me and Mr. Blanchard, who I am sure is a nice guy despite his beliefs regarding capital punishment.

Thanks,

Kyle Broussard


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## jhegg

Kyle Blanchfield,

Thanks for the clarification, I was really getting worried!

Jim


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## Old Hunter

Now it makes sense. I could not understand why the real KB would be defending someone who was breaking the laws of North Dakota. Another example of carpet baggers coming into the state and dissregarding the laws. I have shot enough birds this year. I will spend some of my time hunting guides. I wont bag them I'll let the Game and Fish boys do that.I'll just give the wardens ammo for the kill.


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## MSG Rude

Kind of off the cuff here but I just gotta say, I really do enjoy the enthusiasm that people show for their convictions. I love to watch a good tennis match and this one shurely is. What I liked while reading this thing from the top to the bottom is that there was almost no personal attacks. How refreshing! A heated debate and no such phrasing as 'if your spelling is any indication of your brain...' yada yada yada. (Except the remark about hunting guides oke: Just funin'.)

Heck there are even times in this thread that people have , oh my gosh, hold, even apologized for getting 'hot headed'. This is the stuff i have grown to love here. Not the constant BS and personal attacks which yes, not with pride I say, that I have on occasion lowered myself to. I really enjoy LEARNING from both sides.

Remember: Free your mind and the rest will follow.

Peace and War are a nessecity as sun and rain.

(And my spelling really sucks)

Rude


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## Duckslayer100

I noticed that too! Awesome stuff :beer:


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## Goon

Ithaca1 said:


> Just heard from a friend from ND G/F that a warden caught 5 Georgia boys with 350 ducks. Thats what I call Southern Hospitality. And NR's wonder why we get mad. Talked to a few other wardens and they are catching quite a few NR's using lead shot and over limits. One bunch had a case of lead and no steel in their possesion while hunting a slough.


That is out right stupidity. I hope these guys are never allowed to hunt here in our state again. There just isn't any excuse for that. Besides, I love to eat duck but how in the heck could you consume that much wild game in a year?


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## ND decoy

Talked to a friend from up in that area today and they way it was laid out for me I got to think that this guy is just a common poacher.

The only way to get rid of guys like this is to make sure that people know about them. I hope that they make sure this guy never gets to guide in this state again with or with out a permit.


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## Bob Kellam

The one thing that keeps getting lost here is weather the hunters who were having their "dogs trained" Bo Taylor, just killed anything that flew and cherry picked their mallard limit out of the spoils to take home. Sounds like a case of Duck Laundering to me. I could give a rats a$$ if the Bo is from Georgia or Tibet. To me he is just another SOB taking advantage of the Natural Resources that North Dakota has to offer law abiding Resident and Nonresident hunters. If I have anything to say about it there will be a new amendments to our guide and outfitter laws for next session that have some friggin teeth to make these poachers wish they had not picked North Dakota as their place to take advantage of.

In case any of you want to know who this person is, here is his info from the web

Taylor, Bo 
[email protected] Alecia Ridge Retrievers 
(229)-859-2957 
837 Ethridge RD 
Pavo GA 31778

Here is North Dakotas definition of an Outfitter (from North Dakotas Century Code)

30. "Outfitter" means a person that holds the person's business operation out to the public for hire or consideration; provides facilities or services for consideration; maintains, leases, or otherwise provides compensation for the use of land and which receives compensation from a third party for use of that land; or otherwise uses equipment or accommodations for consideration for the conduct of outdoor recreational activities, including hunting animals or birds and fishing on lakes, reservoirs, rivers, and streams. An outfitter may act as a guide. The term does not include a person holding title or an equitable interest in business operations if the purpose of the business operation is to provide food or lodging to the general public, chamber of commerce activities, travel agencies, or others that offer free information to attract outdoor and recreational use of their communities.

Here is the definition of a Resident (From NDCC)

38. "Resident" means any person who has actually lived within this state or maintained that person's residence therein for at least six months immediately preceding the date that residence is to be determined. A person's residence is the place where the person remains when not called elsewhere for special or temporary purposes. A resident can only have one residence and a residence cannot be lost until another is gained. A residence or home is a permanent building or part of a building and may
include a house, condominium, apartment, room in a house, or mobile home. A rental property, vacant lot, or house, cabin, or premises used primarily for business or recreational pursuits may not be considered a residence. A "nonresident" is any person who has not actually lived within this state or maintained that person's residence within this state for at least six months immediately preceding the date that residence is to be determined.

Kyle B

All of this information is found on the web without any difficulty. Bo may very well be a world class dog trainer to you but to me he is just another poacher that takes money to train dogs for people that can not do it for themselves.

Bob


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## always_outdoors

ouch! Mess with the bull and your get the...well you get Bob Kellam.

Nice post Bob.


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## snow chaser

it's alot like catching NR's in minnesota with gross overlimits of fish :******: and you wonder why we all have bad feelings for nr


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## Bob Kellam

Just heard a radio report that Ferris "Bo" Taylor pled not giulty to the charges against him. :eyeroll: McClean County is the wrong place to comit a wildlife violation!
:wink: 
Bob


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## WingedShooter7

thats ridculous...thats a good example of hunters that dont care they just shoot to kill and its not about the hunt but the kill for them...


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## markjens

I'm not one to join forum's actually I just figured out how to send e-mails.
Anyway....I thought I'd share that Bo Taylor and Alecia Ridge Retrievers trained my dog this past summer in Douglas ND.

When my son and I dropped our dog off with Bo he showed my son all of the raised ducks that he had in a pen for training during the summer. He did not discuss where they came from. I could not give you an accurate count...over 100. I don't know what kind of paper work he would of needed for these ducks...I'll I know is what we saw.

As far as Bo guiding.. When we went to pick up my dog Bo indicated to my 8 year old son and I that anytime this fall if we wanted to come out and stay with him and hunt we would be more than welcome. He didn't mention any $ and he knew my dog was going home for good so I do not believe his offer was anything but a friendly gesture.

I'm not responding as a friend of Bo...I only recently met him, however I had an opportunity to witness his operation and I believe everthing to be very professional.

We'll have to wait and see what happens.


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## Bob Kellam

There were aparently pen raised ducks found in the search, the Ducks and Hen Pheasants found feozen and mentioned were wild.

Bob


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## Kyle B

Bob Kellam said:


> All of this information is found on the web without any difficulty.


 True. And thank you for posting it. Now I guess its a question for the courts to decide.



Bob Kellam said:


> Bo may very well be a world class dog trainer to you but to me he is just another poacher that takes money to train dogs for people that can not do it for themselves.


 Except the "poacher" statement I agree with your statement. If I had the time, resources and experience to train a Field Trial Caliber dog I would.....but I don't, so Bo does it for me. I'm glad that you, Mr. Kellam, have risen to the level of being able to do all this, but not everyone has, so good day to you sir.


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## Field Hunter

1st off.....what's up with the "KB", and Kyle B names on the site....does either of them belong to the real KB tat guides in DL area? Or just a couple of yayhoos! Hope one is the real KB as it's good to see his opinion.

Have to agree with Bob on this one and sometimes I don't agree with him too.

The use of ND for "training purposes" in the off season is in my opinion a bunch of bull. Why should anyone, Resident and NR be allowed to "use" a public resource to train dogs.......I suppose NO hen pheasants and for that matter out of season roosters are accidently killed by the training.

We need a bill to outlaw the use of wild birds in training.....stay home in RD or where ever you are from and train your dogs there......wait.....maybe those states already have laws governing this problem.


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## Bob Kellam

Field Hunter

KB is the real KB, Kyle B is Kyle Broussard one of Mr Taylors clients.
Here is a link

http://www.aleciaridgeretrievers.com/clientsdogs.htm

Kyle B
Nice looking dog!


> If I had the time, resources and experience to train a Field Trial Caliber dog I would


Nothing personal but I don't need a Field Trials Caliber Dog, Just one that will work for me when i require it. I enjoy the accomplishment of the small steps that are attained in the training process and with each step the bond becomes stronger. I couldn't get that feeling if I had it done for me. So I make time. My son and i are doing very well with our current training process and for an 8 month old dog we feel he has exceeded our expectations by a great deal. All of myy dogs in the past have been loyal hunting and family companions not status symbols. My only real objections to these incidents are using North Dakotas Natural resources to train your dogs and and the supposed ignorance of the laws from a man who makes his business from this type of activity. North Dakotas laws are no secret, they are easy to find and any NDGF official would be happy to explain any issue to anyone. With that said all I am left with is the suspicion that Mr. Taylor knew what the laws were and decided to risk it or he didn't care what the laws were, maybe one of his clients is an attorney who knows.

The courts will decide the issue.

Good Day to You as Well.

Bob


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## gjmcginn

For what it's worth...

I don't resent any of the opinions that have been expressed here. Frankly, if I had the basic information about the "case" as stated on this board, I'd immediately assume guilty as charged.

I know Bo. I'm Not a client. I'm not a benefactor in any way. I'm President of a retriever club in FL that has hosted many events that Bo has attended (with as many as 33 dogs). I have no axes to grind, nor beds to feather. Here's what you apparently don't know.

Every year, I order an average of 220 ducks for our hunt test events. We host three event a year. That means about 660 birds a year. The club (now) insists on getting proper documentation proving them to be pen raised. That didn't happen until last year when we were hassled by a Dept of Ag. guy. Once the event is over, we always save as many birds as needed for club training sessions and give the rest away to individuals trying to train their own pooches. Frankly, if you checked my freezer today, I'd be hanged along with Bo. At least two more members of our club would likely face the same acusations - until we could provide the verification that the ducks were bought, not wild. By the way, a duck costs roughly $9 apiece and are VERY thoroughly worn out before being tossed. No duck ever gets more use than a training duck. In a world of 4 or 5 duck a day bag limits and 2 day posession limits while hunting , I understand that these seem like outrageous numbers. In a world of commercial production, field trials, hut tests, or professional training this is rediculously paltry.

Frankly, 350 ducks in a freezer is not a big surprise for a pro. I know that Bo took all the ducks he could that were left over from the Field trials and hunt tests that he attended. He also probably had 100 live mallards in his pen at any time when I saw it. Birds are a HUGE expense for a professional trainer. That doesen't mean that ALL the ducks in the freezer in question were pen raised ...hell, I don't know. But, if it were my freezer (I have just one) my ducks would probably be mingled, but labeled. Pen raised mallards are not fit for the table by a long shot.

Once Bo asked me how many marks (birds) my dog saw a week. I said mayby six if I had the time to train really seriously. He said his dogs got 30 plus marks a week average. In 2003 he qualified 13 dogs for the Master National. He passed 7, which was the high for one person for that season. I was dropped in the fourth series. And I have, I believe a very talented dog. Not hard to understand how he kicked everyones butt - and with dogs that were picked and given to him by clients. The major Pro's buy birds by the hundreds, they have the best grounds and have a commitment beyond my ability to comprehend. I would have never understood it before I got into the game. Bo is not some idiot pretending to be a trainer in order to get around guiding and game laws. He's the real deal, and he's among the very best in the business. If he had his clients with him to hunt, it was no more than friendship and a good day out. Hunting is a distraction to a field trialer. Many serious guys won't even risk loosening up, or injuring a really good dog for a couple of wild ducks. They pay him to train & run their dogs by the month, regardless. ...and please , don't think that these (the trainers) are rich, privelaged folks having their way with the world. I honestly can't immagine a much harder way to earn a living than training and running 30 dogs.... and I absolutely love the sport. I could never do it.

I know nothing beyond the accusations that have been shared on this site, but I can already tell you that the biases and the assumptions that have been shared here are not even remotely "educated" guesses. I have no idea if he "shaved" any game laws or residency requiremnts, but I can say that in the end, it'll likely prove out to be not much more that going 45 in a 30 - Not the dramatic announcement of 350 illegal ducks. If it were, I'd be right up among you sceaming for his head.

I recently returned from Manitoba duck hunting. I paid $150 for a license, I spent many trimes that amount in travel, lodging, food, shells, etc. I had a GREAT time - as I've had for the last 15 years. I brought zero ducks back with me. We ate maybe 20 birds while at camp. They were fantastic and very much worth the trip. My buddies brought a few home. Please don't fly that NR crap at me. Just accept the cash inserted into your local economy and try to be the guy you want to meet the next time that you're from "out of town".

Greg


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## markjens

I had the opportunity to train with Bo the day before the Minot Field Trial...we must of shot 30 or more live flyers....Raised Ducks and Pheasants.

Again, we'll have to wait and see what happens...I just think he was a little pre-judged...I wonder if some of the harsh opinions would have been the same if Bo was from ND.

My dad Jimmy Jenson "The Swinging Swede" is originaly from North Dakota...however I live in MN so technically I'm a NR.

This NR and son had a wonderful Duck Hunt near the Forman ND area. It was fun to see my son who can't even shoot yet get so excited about hunting and seeing so many Ducks.

We really appreciate the resources that you North Dakotans have to offer and not all NR's are bad. Bad shots, maybe!


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## Bob Kellam

Greg
Thanks for the insight. Glad you had a good time enjoying the outdoors.

It has been said many times on this site that we are very protective of our state. we know we have a good thing going and we, for the most part do not mind sharing. We do, however, take a very dim view of anyone that breaks the laws of our state when it relates to wildlife violations.

As I said in my post to Kyle B the courts will eventually decide the matter.

Bob


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## DCOYNUT

I say they hang that georgia peach. Anyone who thinks that they can get away with having a frozen hen in the chiller.....wow. i can't even go on.

good luck with selling the mutts in the future, buddy :lol:


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## Lvn2Hnt

gjmcginn and others defending Bo's number of ducks in possession: wasn't it already discovered and proven by the authorities that the frozen ducks uncovered were indeed wild and not pen raised?


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## gjmcginn

Although I've never had the opportunity to hunt ND, someday I hope to have the chance.

I, with some friends have a camp on Deta Marsh in Manitoba. The hunting is a mere shadow of it's old heyday, but it's still a slice of history and I get the willys every time I paddle into Bluebill Bay. The ducks are just a bonus.

You're right to be protective of what ND has to offer. If not you, then who will defend it? Please be careful about jumping on someone when you don't have all the facts though. After all, this guy has a business, two kids, and a mom too.

Love what you've been given, defend it with all that you have, but be careful not to be the first guy to suggest we burn the witch at the stake.

Bo told me he was stopped by a warden last year about this same time. He was questioned very closely about the ducks he had in his posession and what he was doing with all the dogs. He was told that he was ok on the birds, but needed to get some kind of dog training license (?) Which he did. That was it. Either he was stopped by a different guy this time, or someone decided to re-investigate the birds. Even the best case scenario means a lot of time out of his life - even if he's done nothing wrong. Hard to believe that someone on this board would try to rally support for suspension of hunting priveleges, even if you were found innocent of all charges.

Again, I have no more of the facts than any of you ...only the background. That background simply leads me to a very different conclusion than I've heard expressed on this board. I hope that it works out just the way that I've guessed.

Greg


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## noflcracker

Pen raised, wild ducks, dog trainer, non-licensed outfitter. What are the FACTS in this case? Several folks mentioned a press release. Where can it be viewed? I just want to know what really happened before forming an opinion.


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## Bob Kellam

Here is the first press release



> A Georgia man, Ferris "Bo" Taylor of Pavo, Georgia was arrested and charged with over limit possession of waterfowl, laundering ducks for clients, illegal possession of hen pheasants, misrepresentation on a license application for falsely claiming to be a North Dakota resident and outfitting without a license.
> 
> Game Warden Ken Skuza and warden supervisor Daryl Kleyer checked Taylor for a hunting license and discovered evidence on the other chargies while executing a search warrant on a farmstead owned by Taylor, in the Douglas area. The search discovered 351 whole ducks in freezers and three hen pheasants.
> 
> The investigation continues and more charges may be filed.


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## g/o

I keep wondering one thing here. Bo is a professional dog trainer so was he licensed in North Dakota? If he was he should also have a game propagation licensed and should have reciepts for all ducks purchased.


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## quailhtrnc

First off, I suggest that some of you get off your "high horse" and open your minds. "Stealing" YOUR natural resources?? Well, if all the ducks were wild, then I would agree. But that has not been documented. It has been suggested that some, most (?) were birds used for training. How many of you train your own dogs? How many know anything about training dogs? GW's make mistakes. GW's, Residents and N/R's make mistakes, do not properly tag items, or have personal axes to grind. If the ducks were not properly taged, shame on Bo. If they were, or if he has the proper paper work, will there be the same outrage directed at the GW on this list? And the "good ol boy" comments are real productive! Should we just assume that y'all are a bunch of dirt farmers too? I think tags like that went out when we entered this century, or should have. I really hope this discussion keeps track of this issue as all the pertinent facts are revealed, what ever they are. If laws were broken, then punishment should be expected. If not, then a public applogy would be expected.

Good hunting to all.


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## Ron Gilmore

Over the last 20 years in ND, I do not remember a single time that a major bust by our G&F was not correct! Can anyone tell me of a charge that the accused was found not guilty of what they where charged?

For some of you who do not have benefit of the history of our enforcement dept, I hope you understand why many of us can with good confidence connect the dots!

I said before that we will see what shakes out come the trial, but odds are a lot better that the G&F got it right! If we had the ability to gamble on the outcome, I would take a 20 to 1 line and make a bundle!


----------



## Field Hunter

I can understand some the comments here that are trying to help Mr. Taylor......what this and other things that come up during the huntng seasons is that many of us that live here and abide by the rules are just getting sick and tired of more and more NR "hunters" and "dog trainers" trying to circumvent the system for thier owon benefit.

When NRs and residents, a like, are caught and are proven guilty, they need to have penalties that keep this from happening in the future....how about taking huntng privileages away for two years for instance.


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## innocentuntilproven!

Wow, I would have thought that the folks of ND would be the type to embrace the Constitution of out GREAT country! I would have also thought that hunters wouldn't be so quick to slaughter someone based on what the media had to say. I thought we left that to the left coasters and PETA supporters. I have also been blown away by the negativity toward dog trainers. remember in the long run a great trained dog helps to CONSERVE wildlife!

Just some food for thought here, lets take these charges and break them down:
1. "over the limit possession of waterfowl"...as has been stated(and ignored by many here) dog trainers need massive amounts of birds to train with. It is not at all unusual for for a pro trainer to have that many ducks. NOBODY official has said that any of those birds were wild but many have jumped to that conclusion. If he didn't tag the birds and should have based on state law, he made a bad mistake. I can assure you , he will have receipts in his files for way more birds than that.

2. "Laundering ducks for clients"...I really have no idea what this means but I'm sure it was all about the number of frozen birds he had.

3."Illegal possession of hen pheasants"...see #1

4. "misrepresenting on a license application for falsely claiming to be a North Dakota Resident"...well, this one could be an issue but "what if" someone he trusted(the licensing agent) told him he was a res based on the laws and he just took their word for it? A mistake to be sure but you have to admit that would remove any malicious intent. So the judge may or may not side with him on thiswe'll have to wait and see but even if guilty here, I don't think it makes him a horrible person as many have stated.

5."outfitting without a license"...I have paid for dog training in the past. I have been invited to fish on the pro's ponds and to duck hunt with him. I took it as a buddy giving me an invite. It had nothing to do with me being a client of his dog training. We'll have to see here as well but IMHO it is a sad state of affairs if a guy can't invite a friend to hunt just because he has a specific job. All he would have to show is that he let someone that wasn't a paying dog client hunt without charging a fee to do so.

Anyway, I know my post was long but geez people, some of these posts sadden me.
I don't know this guy from Adam and he may be guilty as sin but I sure as heck ain't gonna trust a newspaper article enough to condemn someone.


----------



## buckseye

I know of one Ron... a person I know poached a moose and was proved innocent while a friend of his was proved guilty, they were together. One bought a lawyer and the other plead guilty. (They got the wrong one)


----------



## Kyle B

Bob Kellam said:


> Kyle B
> Nice looking dog!
> ..........
> Good Day to You as Well.
> 
> Bob


Thanks Bob.


----------



## fowldogs

DCOYNUT said:


> I say they hang that georgia peach. Anyone who thinks that they can get away with having a frozen hen in the chiller.....wow. i can't even go on.


DCOYNUT, PM me and I will be glad to send you my address so you can come hang me up cause guess what? I have 4 hen pheasants in the freezer at home right now. So get the noose out and find a tree.

Oh, but wait; before you drive all those long miles to Michigan and jump to conclusions, guess what? All of the hen pheasants came from a farm and have the appropriate paperwork. So be careful, don't want to hang an innocent man.

I guess you can say that in North Dakota, you are guilty until proven innocent. And I imagine when proven innocent, you are still assumed to be guilty by the masses.

I have to say that I have read this entire thread and I find it absolutely shameful how some of you have just jumped right on the bus to run Bo over. Many of you are playing judge, jury, and executioner based off partial information, a vague press release, and no comments from the defendent. How many of you fly an American flag in your yard? Have an item that says "God Bless America" on it? Say your prayers at night to the only one who has any right to judge Bo before all of the evidence is heard? If yes, remember we are a country that believes *innocent until proven guilty* and right to trial by an impartial jury.

It is down-right embarrassing how some of you have responded to this thread.

I don't know Bo, never even heard his name before today. However, there have been some compelling comments made to why he would have had the number of ducks he had, why he might have had a ND Res. license, or why he had people out hunting. I'm not saying any of them are true to the circumstances, but they do certainly provide the possibility of resonable doubt.

This is America and Bo should be treated innocent until proven guilty. If proven guilty, he will be punished. However, as previously noted, if he is proven innocent, are you going to apologize for jumping to conclusions. Heck, someone had the nerve to post his address and contact information. How many of you sent him an email and called him a good for nothing SOB? Are you willing to send a note of apology if he is innocent?

Roger


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## djleye

> why he might have had a ND Res. license


OK, explain this one to me. I am thinking of getting a daul residency once you do because I am paying a lot of money for my Non-Resident status in MN right now and I would love to save the money. Isn't that a bit like being a little bit pregnant. You either are a resident or you aren't. What am I missing here???


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## SDNDhtr

the guy did have too many ducks....its hard to be proven innocent on that one :roll:


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## fowldogs

SDNDhtr said:


> the guy did have too many ducks....its hard to be proven innocent on that one :roll:


Not if the ducks were pen raised and he has the paper-work to prove. If they are pen raised, then he is innocent. Did you not read any of the previous comments?



djleye said:


> why he might have had a ND Res. license
> 
> 
> 
> OK, explain this one to me. I am thinking of getting a daul residency once you do because I am paying a lot of money for my Non-Resident status in MN right now and I would love to save the money. Isn't that a bit like being a little bit pregnant. You either are a resident or you aren't. What am I missing here???
Click to expand...

As one of the previous posters pointed out, if he presented his information to the license distributor and was told that all he needed was a NR license, then he may have made a mistake. Not that he is not guilty, but it may not be the malicious intent that so many have protrayed here.

Again, 2 more examples of people wanting to jump on the bus before knowing all of the information. Come on people, you know what assuming does. It makes an a$$ out of u and ming.

Roger


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## djleye

:eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## fishless

Ignorance of the law, is no excuse.


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## fowldogs

fishless said:


> Ignorance of the law, is no excuse.


I didn't say he wouldn't be guilty. I said that it might not be the malicious intent that many on here assume it was.


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## KEN W

You know ....if I was checked with a freezer full of farm raised ducks and or pheasants....I would have the paperwork out immediatly.No different than checking my various licenses.

What CO would file charges against someone if they had all the paperwork in order to prove they were farm raised.

And people wonder why we would say he is probably guilty?

The guiding w/o a license is tougher to prove unless you have someone undercover.If taking someone out hunting with a dog he trained to show them how it works?????This is tough.

I bought a trained GWP from a breeder in Dickinson.If he told me part of the price was to take me out hunting to work the dog.....I wouldn't consider that guiding w/o a license.

If he is a resident of Georgia....he can't also be a resident of ND....no matter if he lives here the 6 months or not.


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## Jeff T.

During the past few years I have used most of my vacation time to travel to Georgia for a couple of weeks during February so that I could train my dog with Bo Taylor. Bo has been extremely gracious, generous with his knowledge and has helped me to become a better dog trainer.

In my opinion, Bo is a very hard worker, is extremely concientious and honest to a fault.

I haven't spoken to him about this situation, so I don't know more than what I've read here, but I am confident that these charges are the unfortunate result of misunderstanding.

I can also say that I routinely take home as many dead mallard ducks as possible from field trials and hunt tests. I use these ducks in training with my retriever club. I currently have a couple of hundred ducks in two freezers, all of which were domestically raised for the purpose of retriever training, testing and trialing. These are birds that would be thrown in a dumpster if no one wanted to use them for dog training.

When I obtain dead birds at hunt tests and field trials, there is no documentation whatsoever. The birds do have a toe clipped to indicate they are not wild...but that is it.


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## KEN W

Once again....don't you think the CO would know that they would have clipped toes if they were not wild and not file charges?That and or paperwork would be the first thing I would look for.


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## always_outdoors

fowldogs: The assumption has been made that the distributor made the mistake of giving him a R license.

Let's maybe assume that Bo went into the local small town bait shop where a 16 year old girl is behind the counter and Bo conveniently says he lives up the road (since he has a house there) and then provides that information to her and she gives him an R license.

Couple of guys tried that in my hometown. Told the young lady behind the counter they were from the town down the road and they were "out and about" and wanted to pick up their R hunting license. Everything was going well until the owner walked in and then asked for their ID's.

I am not saying Bo did this, but if we are going to assume one thing, then we need to assume the other. Many are trying to find loopholes so they can claim residency and hunt for longer periods of time. That aint no Sunday morning news.

It doesn't seem to matter whether you are a R or NR, if you doing something that is unethical in terms of wildlife conservation or possibly breaking the law, then the people on this site are going to do some jabbing.


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## fowldogs

live2hunt said:


> I am not saying Bo did this, but if we are going to assume one thing, then we need to assume the other.


There shouldn't be any assuming at all. Nada!!!!! Facts and only facts should be given. Assuming is what gets this mess started in the first place. Because so many want to find guilt without proof, the assumptions bagan. Then, those that know Bo and have a hard time believing he would intentionally do some of these things assume scenerios how he might be understood.



live2hunt said:


> It doesn't seem to matter whether you are a R or NR, if you doing something that is unethical in terms of wildlife conservation or possibly breaking the law, then the people on this site are going to do some jabbing.


There has been no proof that anything unethical has occurred. It has all been assumed. Therefore, the jabbing is unwarranted at this point.


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## Bob Kellam

Gerg alluded to some info in a previous post but can someone please explain this thing to me. Are live Flyers wild birds or tame birds? How does this thing work. are tame birds raised and sold everywhere? I can only remember one guy ever saying anything about tame mallards Jim Cook wanted to raise them on his crosslands land purchase but that was/is going to be a wildlife refuge. Many guys are posting and it is getting very confusing. if what you are all saying is true Bo may very well be innocent. Being a "country boy" I don't tend to run in the circles where a dog costs more than my truck :lol: I still don't feel it is appropriate to use North Dakotas natural resources to train a dog. Sorry but that is they way i see it.

Bob


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## always_outdoors

fowldogs: Does the report not state that wild birds and wild hen pheasants were found in the freezer???

I have yet to see a report stating that "wild ducks and PEN raised hen pheasants were also found in the freezer".

Sounds unethical to me.


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## krl

Live flyers are tame birds raised for dog training, hunt tests and/or field trials.

I am a country boy and train my own dogs. I don't spend a lot of money but there are a lot of good people who train and run dogs.

Bo Taylor would be a very welcome sportsman and trainer and Wisconsin. I know Bo and I find it almost impossible he would lie saying he was a resident if he didn't believe he was. He just isn't shifty or crooked. He is a quiet, polite, gentleman in the dealings I have had with him. NOt arrogant but very confident and very nice and helpful person.

I am not saying he hasn't done anything wrong as he may have. I have made mistakes and have paid for them. I highly doubt they were intentional. I would be very surprised if they really found whole dead birds that were wild in his possession. Bo is a smart man and smart enough to know you don't use wild birds for training! He may have misplaced the receipts for birds or may keep them in GA.

Most warden's in WI wouldn't know how to distinguish a pen raised from a wild duck. I doubt ND wardens could but I am not sure. I am not sure of what he is guilty of and what he is not but if you ever had dealings with Bo you would be very surprised to think he would bend the rules or blatantly break the rules. I have been surprised before so I will wait to see what comes of it but I really suspect he will be cleared of most of the charges. The ones he isn't he probably didn't do it on purpose. Doesn't make it right or mean he should get off but I don't think Bo would purposely take advantage of ND resources.

It is too bad you guys have to form opinions and treat out of staters like this. The times I have hunted in ND most residents were very nice and very helpful. The small town atomosphere was very welcoming and very enjoyable.

Just my opinion.


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## Field Hunter

Let's all try to blur the issues. He got caught and all the dog trainers in the world sticking up for him isn't going to make it go away. If he had the paper work then he should have showed it. If he lives in ND 6 months and one day he's a resident of ND...6 months and a day he's a resident of georgia.

My point is this...if everthing is on te up and up as to the birds in his freezer than I would think he could train dogs in Georgia as well as ND.

ND is the greatest state in USA for hunting....we need to STOP anyone from abusing the system!


----------



## Ithaca1




----------



## krl

He does train in ND and GA. He trains in ND to extend his training season. IN the summer it is too hot in GA to get much done. IN the winter he will train in GA when it is frozen in ND.

He trained several summers in WI. Rented and never owned to the best of my knowledge. Wasn't a big deal he was training here. Dog trainers don't hurt or do any damage to the areas they are training on generally.

If you don't understand what all the issues are it is probably hard not to see him as guilty. IF you don't understand the dog tarining world and how it works it probably seems fishy. I know a TON of people with birds in their freezer without the proper documentation. Granted most aren't dog trainers professionally. I would have expected Bo to have the documentaion. He may have made a mistake or something may have happened.

If he is found guilty of possession that many wild birds (frozen whole) I wouldn't speak very highly of the man anymore. I VERY highly doubt that will be the case.


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## Bob Kellam

fowldogs

*fowldogs wrote*


> someone had the nerve to post his address and contact information.


I see that you are using an alias as well. Bo's information was freely available on the Web. I use my real name, I am not trying to hide anything.

*fowldogs wrote*



> I have to say that I have read this entire thread and I find it absolutely shameful how some of you have just jumped right on the bus to run Bo over.


Shameful is harvesting way over your limit of birds and them trying to pass it off as a normal part of training dogs.

*fowldogs wrote*


> It is down-right embarrassing how some of you have responded to this thread.


I am not embarassed by anything that I have posted here. who is embarassed you or Bo? if we are so ignorant enlighten us, as to what would cause us ignorant yokels to be embarassed.

Bob


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## Bob Kellam

krl



> IF you don't understand the dog tarining world and how it works it probably seems fishy.


I asked before and you gave me a tidbit what is the dog training world all about. I told Kyle B that I didn't need a world class dog to hunt with and I do not. That doesn't mean I have never wanted one but the expense of the dog and training is way beyond my means or maybe just one of those priority things with me.

Bob[/quote]


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## hydro870

"I still don't feel it is appropriate to use North Dakotas natural resources to train a dog."

Bob, what does this quote mean?

Chad - who lives in Fargo, but trains his dogs in Minnesota.


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## krl

It doesn't cost much to train a dog in my opinion. IT is a time committment but if you do it yourself it isn't a costly eneavor. $200 for a collar. Birds you can get for free at events or use cheap birds. You may not have a FT dog without spending a lot of money but you can still have a high quality dog wihotu spending a lot.


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## hydro870

krl,

I agree totally. If your summer hobby is weekend hunt tests and trials, you definitely can have a lot of fun without spending more than you would on golf or fishing. I happen to have a 4 year old lab. Together we have won a licensed field trial and have earned 5 hunt test titles. To my knowledge he is the only AKC Master Hunter in the State of North Dakota - to my knowledge. It has been a lot of fun, and a great way to keep him in shape for the hunting season. My friends are continually amazed by 300 yard blind retrieves, whether they be on land or water. He gets hunted almost every weekend for 4 months each fall (Sept. through Dec.). He is a great hunting dog because he is a competition dog.

I was once a serious angler, but now I would rather go to hunt tests and trials in the summer. Fishing never made me any new friends, the dog world has made me at least 50 in the last 5 years. That means more to me than being able to consistently stay on the fish and keep secretes about where they are biting at any given moment.

To those who make negative statements about competition dogs: I can only quote the greatest poet of our time - "don't criticize what you can't understand". We will see who gets that one.

P.S. I don't know Mr. Bo from Georgia, but if he is guilty of any of these charges, then he can just leave the great state of North Dakota and NEVER come back. If he is found innocent, then an apology is needed by some.

Chad - who believes guides are making money off of something we all have ownership to, our wildlife.


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## fowldogs

live2hunt said:


> fowldogs: Does the report not state that wild birds and wild hen pheasants were found in the freezer???
> 
> I have yet to see a report stating that "wild ducks and PEN raised hen pheasants were also found in the freezer".
> 
> Sounds unethical to me.


ah, did you read the same press release I did? Where in the press release did it say they were wild birds? As you point out, I have yet to see a report stating that ANY WILD birds were found in the freezer. Everything has been assumptions to what kind of birds and how they were acquired.



Bob Kellam said:


> fowldogs
> 
> *fowldogs wrote*
> 
> 
> 
> someone had the nerve to post his address and contact information.
> 
> 
> 
> I see that you are using an alias as well. Bo's information was freely available on the Web. I use my real name, I am not trying to hide anything.
> 
> *fowldogs wrote*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say that I have read this entire thread and I find it absolutely shameful how some of you have just jumped right on the bus to run Bo over.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Shameful is harvesting way over your limit of birds and them trying to pass it off as a normal part of training dogs.
> 
> *fowldogs wrote*
> 
> 
> 
> It is down-right embarrassing how some of you have responded to this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am not embarassed by anything that I have posted here. who is embarassed you or Bo? if we are so ignorant enlighten us, as to what would cause us ignorant yokels to be embarassed.
> 
> Bob
Click to expand...

Bob,

Are you assuming I have something to hide because I am using an alias? There you go ASSuming again. My real name is Roger Meinert. All you had to do is ask.

Shameful IS harvesting way over your limit of birds and them trying to pass it off as a normal part of training dogs. You are correct in this statement. Now PROVE this is what Bo did. Don't ASSume, PROVE!!!!!

You should be embarassed and I am embarassed for you. You have put Bo out to the wolves just because he has been charged with a crime. No proof, no statement from him explaining his side, just word of mouth and a press release. As a hunter and outdoorsman, you of all people should know better than to immediately believe everything you read in the newspaper.

So, as a hunter, sportsman, a Christian, and an American; I am embarassed that many have responded the way they have. Shame on you for not feeling embarassed yourself.

Remember, INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. Where is the proof???? Since you have such conviction to hang him out to dry, please enlighten us to your proof.



Bob Kellam said:


> As I said in my post to Kyle B the courts will eventually decide the matter.


Bob, you say this statement previously and then find fault in my stance for pointing out INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY and a trial by an impartial jury. Please explain your double standard.

Lastly, I have not said I think Bo is innocent. I don't know if he is or isn't. What I do know is that he has the right to be heard and tried by a jury of his peers. They will judge him for his actions. Until all of the facts are provided, it is wrong to ASSume he is guilty.

Roger


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## Troy W

Fellas-

There are couple of things nobody is talking about...

1. In most states you can aquire a Resident Hunting License if you own property. (YOU KNOW PAY PROPERTY TAXES THERE) You have to own a certain amount of property whatever that might be. Bo most likely has a Ga Driver license. He probably told the officer that. He probably told the officer that he also owned the land he was standing on. That is not for the officer to decide...He just writes the tickets..A court will decide if he is legal. Can any on you prove you own the ground beneath your feet at a moments notice? No!

2. Next, it is not illegal to have, in any number, pen raised ducks or pheasants for the purpse of bona fide dog trianing or trialing purposes according to the CFR. Code of Fed Regs for those in Rio Linda! The CFR states that there are about 5 ways to mark pen raised birds....Were they marked? I don't know. If they weren't then he deserves whatever the courts says about having unmarked birds...IF I GOT BUSTED ON THAT THEN STUPID ON ME. But I do know alot of high caliber retriever trainers and he is one so I assume they were....If I didn't know ANY of what I spoke like those of you here I would probably just wait til the facts were in.

Ya'll step up and support a fellow outdoorsman... Get his back.... If he turns out to be a fake. Poacher. Whatever...THEN ROAST HIM FOR ALL TO SEE. But when he is clean and you were all BBQ'ing him; What does that say of you and our brotherhood of outdoorsmen?

We should support him and each other for all to see and when the facts say he or anyone is dirty we should denouce him for all to see.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the outcome....I would hope anyway. If he is innocent then look at it this way...You'all have 350 more ducks than you thought runnining around wild somewhere.


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## Ron Gilmore

Guys this is not about whether Bo is a good dog trainer, it is about the fact that the G&F determined that he had violated a host of game laws of our state! The courts as I said will decide this, but I will mention once again that the track record of our G&F has been right on the money with large busts like this!

In one of my previous posts I mentioned that the trainers I know make sure they have a paper trail on the birds. One trainer makes sure that the birds he buys are all tagged or banded from the place they come from. He can get birds other places, but he has had the G&F come through his place a couple times and never had a single issue. He is not a ND resident either. But he trains the dogs in ND.

When I lived in WI I would do some shooting for a couple trainers. Ducks and quail and pheasants all had tags and paperwork to back up the amount of birds they had. If this info was available I am sure that the states attorney would have recommended dropping the case at this point. The G&F write the tickets, the states attorney does the prosecution. Knowing what I do about him, he would not be wasting his time if documentation was available and in order. On Oct 22st a news report on KFYR radio did say that found at the farm site where tame birds also frozen. So it seems they can tell the difference between a wild bird and a pen raised bird!

It is not about training dogs it is about having wild birds over possession and having wild protected species in his possession. It is about having purchased a wrong license. Like I told Kyle B at the start of this thread, Sheldon Schlect got great praise and was defended by one of the legends of the outdoors Tony Dean. Tony commented that during his time in the field with Sheldon he was a class act. Well numerous game violations later, the rape and filming of a minor girl do you think Tony still holds the same opinion?

ND law enforcement and states attorneys do a fine job. Seldom are charges filed without convictions on these issues. I think it is because they remain close to a reality that few people even know exists. I do know that he will get a fair trial and have ample opportunity to defend himself.


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## Bob Kellam

Roger, Greg, Troy, Krl, Kyle B, Markjens and whomever
Welcome to the site.

Bo if you are out there lurking on the site chime in if you wish we will listen. seems like many that know you are fighting the battle

First of all I said he was a poacher based on the report from the press
*Roger Said*


> did you read the same press release I did? Where in the press release did it say they were wild birds? As you point out, I have yet to see a report stating that ANY WILD birds were found in the freezer.


Here are the charges against Bo as posted in the report
1.Over the limit on waterfowl 
2.Laundering ducks for clients 
3.Illegal possession of hen pheasants 
4.Misrepresentation on a license app. for falsley claiming to be a resident. 
5.Guiding and outfitting without a license

I am going to preface this by saying that ND Game Wardens are not a vengeful bunch I know a couple of them (not this one) and they are tough, professional and understanding when the need arises.

1. Over the limit on waterfowl- Hmmmmm lets see if they were pen raised and he had paperwork on them or they were somehow marked then there would be no limit. Correct? or assumption? Poaching? If they were client birds that were killed and left he has some issues with his clients not taking home birds they have killed, or at the very least tagged properly for shipment. lets see if they were wild the bag limit is 12 and 350+ birds were found 29+ clients were up hunting with him?? and all 29 took no birds home? come on give me a break!

2.Laundering ducks for clients- was there evidence that harvesting of wild ducks with left over evidence and very few of one species maybe wild mallards? Why are wild birds even used in dog trials training if you can use pen raised birds? doesn't laundering mean separating the dirt (sh!t ducks as we call them) and leaving the Clean (i would think wild mallards would be in this catagory)

3.Illegal possession of hen pheasants- it is against the law to shoot hen pheasants in ND, were they pen raised and he couldn't find the paperwork? or did someone forget to mark them? or could they be wild? Sorry but if they were pen raised and marked it would be a non issue.

4.Misrepresentation on a license app. for falsley claiming to be a resident.-
this is a tough one Did he even check into the resident status requirements in ND? did he get bad information from someone? did he think paying taxes as Troy suggested made him a resident?

5.Guiding and outfitting without a license - again checking ND's laws would have answered this for him if he would have checked it out.

You know all of the people that have come to this site have been beating on us in ND pretty hard as well, what is the difference between you hammering on us and us hammering on Bo? Well the way I see it we didn't go out and shoot a boat load of birds put them in the freezer then take money to train clients dogs and then invite them to hunt with him then shoot a bunch of birds and send the clients home after thy have cherry picked the best birds from the spoils then claim to be a resident of a state we are not from.

yet we are beat up here by people from almost every corner of the counrty for even questioning the intergrity of a man who trains dogs for what must be some high profile clients (Pro Basketball players) from Georgia that has been charged with offences listed above in our home state. let me guess that if Bob kellam went to Michigan, Florida, North Carolina etc. and was busted for a wildlife violation and it made it into the conversation of the circle of friends that surround you guys you would all say Oh wait a minute it must be a mistake he couldn't have done any of that, or he is a good guy he couldn't possibly have done any of that stuff. Give-Me-A-Friggin-Break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is a very difficult situation at best but connect the dots and you get a picture. I know people that have been checked by wardens in the field and had their license in the vehicle, it is a violation of the law but they were not ticketed because they were able to prove they were licensed, end of story.

Bo was at his North Dakota House, if it was a matter of paperwork I would be willing to wager the Warden would have discounted any charges on the spot had he produced papers to prove his case. If he did not have the proper verification at his home where was it and why was it not at his home to support his activity?

I will stand by any assumptions I have made on this site and anyone that knows me here knows that if I am proven wrong I will make a public apology, I just don't understand this whole dog professional training circuit thing at all. I have trained some very good hunters in my day and I am working with my son on one now. I have never had to use live birds to train my dogs until I start to hunt with them and I have been blessed with several great hunters. I fully understand the connection between dog and hunter it is a strong bond.

Good day to all of you. I am willing to discuss this in a civil manner with any of you and you are free to educate me in the processes that you all seem to know so well. Just dont piss on my back and tell me it is raining!!

Regards 
Bob


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## Ithaca1

The Game and Fish probably wouldn't have done a press release if they were tame birds. I have trained every dog I ever had. I used pigeons, dummies, and very few wild birds. I never seen the need for 350 WILD ducks to train dogs. If they were Tame ducks we would not be having this dicussion. Next thing all of you defending Bo will probably be sticking up for Sheldon and crew.


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## djleye

> Just dont piss on my back and tell me it is raining!!


One of my all-time favorite sayings!!!! :beer:


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## Ozpa

A brief explanation of Professional Dog Training, as it pertains to this case.

Professional dog trainers work anywhere from 10 to 30+ dogs almost every day (5 or 6 days a week). Much of the time they use bumpers, but some of the time they use live, or formerly live birds. Every retrieve takes something out of the carcass...water retrieves are especially hard on the birds. On a conservative guess, I'd say that a pro trainer with 25 dogs has between 300 and 600 DUCK retrieves a week. (at least 4 retrieves per dog 3 to 6 days a week).

In addition to training with ducks (pen raised ducks, to my knowledge are exclusively Mallards), pheasants are also used in Field Trials and hunt tests. Most trainers will use pheasants from time to time.

In addition to the birds purchased by trainers, many,many birds are taken from Field Trials and Hunt Tests...they are given freely. I've personally left hunt tests with 2 dozen pen-raised mallard carcasses, and I was only training my dogs (I'm not a pro, just like to play the games). Only one time in the dozens of dog events I've run or worked have I seen any markings on the birds that would I.D. them...and that was bands. No paperwork was given to me saying I took birds from the FTs or HTs.

Here's the key, IMO. What species were the ducks? If it was 351 mallards...you can bet they were pen raised. Nobody shoots that many ducks that are JUST mallards. And the mallards are probably going to be the first choice for eating, after teal perhaps. If there were other species involved...then it really looks like poaching to me...nobody that I know of raises, for sale, bluebills, pintails, bufflehead, etc.

Todd Wallsmith


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## Bob Kellam

Todd

Welcome to the site. So dog training does not use wild birds until real life hunting is the step where the dog has progressed to? Is there a regulation for the dog training/Mallard raising industry that requires them to be marked. I mean isn't it somewhat risky to have un-identifiable birds in your possession and not have a hunting license and even possibly cross a state line? I guess i can see where it is possible that Bo had these ducks in the freezer if it is common practice to not have any way to identify wild from pen raised birds.

Bob


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## Ozpa

Bob Kellam said:


> Todd
> 
> Welcome to the site. So dog training does not use wild birds until real life hunting is the step where the dog has progressed to? Is there a regulation for the dog training/Mallard raising industry that requires them to be marked. I mean isn't it somewhat risky to have un-identifiable birds in your possession and not have a hunting license and even possibly cross a state line? I guess i can see where it is possible that Bo had these ducks in the freezer if it is common practice to not have any way to identify wild from pen raised birds.
> 
> Bob


Thanks for the welcome.

The introduction to hunting and wild birds is a choice made by the owner and/or trainer. I introduced my dog to wild birds at 5 months...which was opening day of dove season. He hunted with me. I did keep a dove or two for training. I don't see that as wanton waste because it ultimately saves birds. I didn't keep a limit for him, just enough to run doubles and learn to use his nose to find doves.

I don't know what the regulations are on marking pen raised birds, and I fear they vary from State to State.

I suppose there is some risk (now I KNOW there is some risk :lol: ) but until now I never worried about it. Most of the pen raised birds would not be confused with healthy, wild ducks. They are skinny, poorly plumed, and usually very torn up. Being thrown 20 or 30 yards, and run back and forth in a dogs mouth for miles does a lot of damage. They also begin to rot out in the field.

I still think the clincher to the whole question here is: Are they all mallards?

Todd


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## Bob Kellam

I think the duck laundering charge may give a clue as to the Mallard count. I don't think this would have even been a charge if all of the ducks found would have been mallards. I suppose it is possible that they were skinny pen raised birds and looked at as the ones that were culled.

I find it kinda funny that Bo has invited some Dog owners to hunt with him and that he would have all of these ducks on hand if the hunters were taking any birds home. or did the owners just shoot them and leave them for Bo's future training. there are ways to explain some of the charges in different ways but it again brings forth more questions.

Bob


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## krl

It is very unlikely any pro with any intelligence or any reputation would use wild ducks for training. T here is just no reason. Although birds are a fairly big cost i am sure Bo must shoot FLYERS for his dogs to be competive. The amount of flyers he has to shoot would MORE than supply him with dead ducks needed for training.

I am not defending Bo. If he is in the wrong he deserves to get what is coming. I just feel it is more likely the charges are probably a result of some over zealous warden looking for a big bust and not understanding dog training or the requirements of being competitive in FT's and the number of birds needed. If I am wrong I will admit.

I just think it is more likely any criimes Bo committed are more honest mistakes. Doesn't mean he shouldn't pay the price. But the penalty should fit the crime. If he has 351 unmarked birds that are for training and are obvioulsly not wild birds he s hould be charged accordingly. If he has 351 wild birds of different species, they should be charged for anythign they had over their daily or possession limits. I don't think he should get out of it if he had over the possession limit of wild birds.

I have a feeling if he plead not guilty he likely isn't guilty of most of the charges but time will tell.


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## Bob Kellam

krl



> I have a feeling if he plead not guilty he likely isn't guilty of most of the charges but time will tell.


May be

but just for ths sake of this discussion lets say that he had these unidentifiable birds in his freezer Did he not have the proper paperwork because he brought them from other events that gave the birds to him after the event.

Could very well be an explanation but My view of it as Bo being nothing more than a common poacher is just as valid.

The "make a name for himself" ND Game warden thing as someone previously posted will not fly with me. If you think that you know absolutely nothing about ND and the people that live here.

Bob


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## DJRooster

Anyone who will blast the NDGF dept will lose their credibility fast with me. They are not out to "get" anyone. When the trial is done the guilt will be determined! I'm happy that people like to train dogs as long as it is done in a manner that is within the confines of the law.


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## Bob Kellam

The truly sad part about all of this is he may be innocent he may be guilty, but If he is found guilty the fines and penalties are really just a slap on the wrist for game violations in ND. We do a pretty good job of letting people take advantage of us.

Bob


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## Ithaca1

This warden by no means was trying to make a name for himself. He is known as one of most fair and hard working wardens that works for the G&F. He is doing his job by enforcing the law. Bo was doing wrong by breaking the law. Anyone who stands up for a poacher has no credability in my book. Mess with the bull you get the horn. I see most of the defenders are his out of state buddies trying to cover for him. Maybe you think it is justifable to poach but I don't. Go feed your crap to someone else.


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## northdakotakid

This is another question about this but is it guiding if you accept fees from someone to train their dog, then take their dog out hunting with them?

Just had this pop into my mind and would like to see what people think. Because it could be very easily exploited.


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## krl

YOu guys just don't understand that this doensn't make sense from a dog training stand point.

I have trained with a lot of pros and they really have no need to use wild birds for training dogs. Especially FT pros but most pros really would be very unlikely to do that. Not saying none would but it would be like saying I would drive my car facing backwards and looking over my should. Why would I drive my car like that?

It would make sense Bo would have at least 300 whole frozen birds in his freezer. I don't know any hunter who would freeze 300 whole birds in a freezer even if they were intending to poach. Wouldn't they breast them out!!! Much easier on freezer space!

Bo may be a poacher. I am not a buddy of his but it sure sounds like from my perspective it is much more likely the warden or the media got it wrong. The warden may have got it right and the media or court report was not accurate, I don't know. The warden may have very good reasons to look further into this and press charges. He may be an excellent Warden. Bo may be in the wrong.

There are some questions though as to why in the world would Bo need to or want to use wild ducks in training? He shoots enough tame flyers and probably has to to be competitive. There really wouldn't be mcuh if any benefit to using wild birds. If Bo was intending to poach why would he not breast out the ducks or hide them somewhere else. Freezing ducks whole as a poacher doesn't make sense. Maybe he is and maybe he did freeze his ducks whole it just doensn't seem likely.

Things don't add up but if in the end they find he was keeping wild ducks for training and/or was over the possession limit on those ducks then he is in for some fines. If it comes down to he can't prove if they are tame or wild and he had 300+ whole ducks frozen, it is likely a misfortunate situation. I would tend to think an honest mistake than the acts of a poacher. Believe what you want though. I have no stake in what happens to Bo. Most of why you believe this is because you don't understand the dog sports and why it is conceivable a well intentioned peson could get into this mess. Doesn't mean he isn't wrong for having proper identification but he may be an outstanding sportsman and never shoot over his limit, never shoot hens, abide by shooting hours, etc, etc and still get itnot this bind because he made a mistake. It is sad if he is an outstanding sportsman that you guys try to label him a poacher even if he is guilty of something else like mislabeling ducks or maybe he purchased ducks from a place that was negligent and didn't clip the toes or identify them. I am sure he doesn't inspect eevery duck he buys. I know I don't check the ones I buy for the toe marking. Although the people I bought them from have told me they are identifiable from wild ducks.

He may be a fine upstanding guy who is an excellent sportsman and got caught in an unfortunate situation. Or he may be a poacher who was trying to get away with something. I tend based on my knowledge thinking the first scenario is MUCH, MUCH more liekly.


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## buckseye

I hope all dog trainers are either banned from our state or charged a horrendous fee to work here. They use our wildlife to make a living and of course have more than a few casualties because of it. I have witnessed the damage these guys do all my life. :evil:


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## Bob Kellam

*northdakotakid Wrote*



> This is another question about this but is it guiding if you accept fees from someone to train their dog, then take their dog out hunting with them?


Here is North Dakotas definition of an Outfitter (from North Dakotas Century Code)

30. "Outfitter" means *a person that holds the person's business operation out to the public for hire or consideration; provides facilities or services for consideration;* maintains, leases, or otherwise provides compensation for the use of land and which receives compensation from a third party for use of that land; or otherwise uses equipment or accommodations for consideration for the conduct of outdoor recreational activities, including hunting animals or birds and fishing on lakes, reservoirs, rivers, and streams. An outfitter may act as a guide. The term does not include a person holding title or an equitable interest in business operations if the purpose of the business operation is to provide food or lodging to the general public, chamber of commerce activities, travel agencies, or others that offer free information to attract outdoor and recreational use of their communities.

krl
I can not understand the supposed practice of many in this industry who seem to think it is OK to transport these "pen raised" birds where ever they see fit. Many here have said if you go to a trials event you can get a couple dozen dead birds for training, doesn't paperwork have to be with you or is it just acceptable industry wide to chance it?

Bob
Bob


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## krl

I don't know if you are chancing it. The birds should be toe clipped or identified. IN some states that may be all you need. I don't give much thought to it honestly. After this even if Bo was poaching I still will be more careful just because I am aware of what can happen or the misunderstanding. Bo may be totally in the wrong here I don't know.

I can't agree that dog trainers hurt the natural resources. They don't shoot wild birds and train dogs to retriever more birds and thus concersve a resource. Maybe I am missing something but the guy who says dog trainers are bad and they wreck the natural resources seems to be out in left field. I would say they do the opposite. Except for maybe a few bad apples that abuse things or in some other way destroy th ings.

Hey I am a big sportsman and I train for great hutning dogs. I say the more dog trainers in WI the better. I don't understand how any intelligent person can say that a dog trainer is negative towards resources.

Unless you say they all bring in other hunters or they guide without licensses etc. Then I can see. If Bo was guiding without a license he will pay for that offense. If he wasn't a resident and had a resident license he will pay. Rightfully so. If he had over his possession limit of wild birds for training and/or they weren't labled properly he will get in trouble.

I don't agree with using wild birds for training dogs. Pen raised birds are completely fine but I don't like someone shooting wild birds and impacting the population just to get Fido more training so they can shoot more birds. Others may disagreee with me but I wouldn't want those kind of people hunting in my state.


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## Bob Kellam

krl

Agreed!

In Wisconsin what would these offences add up to in fines etc. I think they are all misdemeanors sp? in ND If it results in a loss of hunting rights then he would not be ablr to hunt in Georgia as well because of the Wildlife Violators Compact between states.

Bob


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## krl

I don't know but it would be 100's of dollars per bird I know that. I think you would be at risk of loosing vehicles, guns, hunting priveleges, etc. They can really sock it to you in WI. This is assuming they are wild birds and he is guilty.

I have had wardens talk to me while training and ask me about hte birds. Wardens have also stopped at events that I was at. Most dog people are law abiding and good sportsman. Not all but most. In wi I have a dog training license that allows me to release different birds. I know pheasants ahve to be tagged prior to release. Ducks just have to be identifiable as not wild is what i was told at hte DNR center I purchased my license.


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## Bob Kellam

krl

What does a Dog Training license cost in WI. Just curious, there is much I do not know about the issue of field trials etc.

Bob


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## krl

$25 or in that neighborhood. It is more the thing probably of being on file and listing your training properties. That way they know where to look if they want to investigate you.

I live to hunt. I hunt 40+ days a year for waterfowl. I love a well trained dog and spend a lot of time in the offseason getting the dog fine tuned. I know I want sportsman to have a good view of dog trainers in general. Not that there aren't bad ones but most are good sportsman and respectable people.

I can see the frustration you have with out of staters. We have the same frustration with in staters because the pressure is 1000X more in WI. Most weekends I have guys sitting a few hundred yards from me sky blasting!

I guess we will see what comes out of this. In Wi I have seen some overzealous game wardens make what I would call mistakes. Go after the violators and try to minimize targeting the well intentioned for making mistakes. I am not saying they have to let you out of mistakes but don't compound it.


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## Bob Kellam

Unbelievable 6260 view on this thread in 4 days! must be a lot of interest out there in ole Bo.

krl and whomever

I do NOT think the dog training industry is a bunch of crooks, I am not trying to compound anything that Bo has been accused of. IMO the charges are serious enough. I get a little fired up from time to time but when someone pokes a stick in my eye I return fire! Roger and others brought up the innocent until proven guilty thing. Fine still doesn't mean I can not talk about it and express my opinion, first amendment if I am not mistaken. very few of you out there that have taken it upon yourselves to call me a bad sportsmen have come up with anything that has changed my mind.

Seems like the dog training industry is a "good ole boy" network that feel some can get away with whatever. and transport and kill what ever and where ever they feel the need with no personal responsibility.

I can not help but notice that most of the 'boys" from yesterday don't seem to have much to say anymore.

If any of you would have ever hunted in ND my guess would be that you would probably have a very different opinion of ND and her residents.

We are not Georgia, Michigan, The Carolinas, Florida or any other place. We are North Dakota and Damn Proud of it!

The other thing I think is funny as he!! is the fact that if the birds Bo was caught with were from clients of his he sure has a bunch of stand up guys as clients by letting him take the fall for all of you!!! Friends like that are not considered real friends in my book!

Bob


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## krl

I have hunted in ND. I bought licenses and hunted several times over a period of 3 years. I didn't think too many were like you!!!!

The dog training circuit is not a good ole boys club. They don't expect to get away with anything. Most I think are some of your better sportsman who want to have better dogs and better stuff. I don't think anyone has suggested if Bo did something wrong he should be able to get away with it.

Dog trainers don't think they can kill or transport anything and "get away" with it. If you knew more people who trained dogs as hobbies I don't think you would have that opinon. Just as I don't think someone as ignorant as you represents all of ND.

Bob you are assuming his clients left birds they didn't want or t hat they really had wild ducks. I doubt Bo is taking hte fall for his clients. You assume because they are from different areas they are crooks or all cheats???? I admit ND is a unique state. YOu can't leave a vehicle unlocked in WI without getting your gun stole and anythign in it. In ND most places people don't lock there vehicles. I was really surprised. I hope that it doesn't cahngne and it remains a good place to live and hunt. Don't paint all outsiders with the same brush though.

One of the reason's ND is like it is, is because it doesn't attract a lot of people! Not exactly one of the highest paying states or the largest provider of jobs. Hunters are probably some of the biggest visitors of the state. As a whole most hunters are pretty good sportsman and people in my dealings with them.


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## Ron Gilmore

krl
 I lived and hunted in WI for five years, during that time, I can say that 90% of the time I had contact with GW it was a positive experience. Do not judge the wardens and the G&F of this state on the attitudes and actions of wardens from WI. The 10% dissatisfaction cost me a fine for laying my gun on top of the case instead of slipping it inside it. It had been raining and I was going to wipe the gun down before putting it up!

If ND had a similar law as WI I can say without a doubt no warden here would have issued a citation. Common sense goes a long way here with our enforcement people. That is one reason a lot of people may have already rendered a guilty verdict.

ND is a pretty great state, we have a lot less rules and regulations simply because we do not need them. I never gave that much thought until I moved from here. It also makes me very upset when people think that because we are a small state or enforcement is not a visible that rules are not necessary to follow.

I would hope that people would keep the issue of dog training and trainers separate from the issue at hand. It reminds me a lot of poachers getting called hunters by the news. Poaching is not hunting as most sportsmen see it! I have no desire to ever train or run dogs in competition, but I do appreciate a well trained dog and the work that goes into one.

Without a doubt I am sure a lot of trainers saw this as an attack on what they do. I am glad that those with knowledge of pro training shared the background on it. We will see what shakes out on this issue as I am sure with the high profile it has taken it will not slip through the cracks and no one hears the outcome!


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## Bob Kellam

Go back and read through some of the posts, How many have posted the fact that they get dead birds from trials events and take them home and others have said they don't check to see if the birds are marked. I don't want a fight with you or anyone else, just stating what I have read here. You may not think much of me but I have 40 plus years in the field and I hunt several states. I invite anyone to inspect my freezer any time they wish! it is in the garage and when you open it you will find ducks tagged dated and a note where they were harvested on the left hand side, Geese are next, then venison (dated) and finally Upland birds, dated and noted as well.

Never been ticketed for any wildlife violation and never will be, I take my hunting pretty Seriously and value my time in the field way to much to be stupid enough to jeopardize my future time afield.



> Just as I don't think someone as ignorant as you represents all of ND.


Ignorant? not a chance! unaware of what the dog training industry is all about yes I admit it but I have also asked many of you so called experts what it is all about and most, You beeing the exception, just blow it off.



> Bob you are assuming his clients left birds they didn't want or t hat they really had wild ducks.


Duck Laundering Charge? Over limit Charge? Guiding without a license Charge? No he has not been convicted but the charges have been filed. and If I want to discuss them I have every right in the world to do so weather you and your bunch like it or not!

Bob


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## krl

If you say you have never been ticketed and never will, I dont' believe it. It could happen no matter how hard you try to walk a tight line.

Even the most careful and good sportsman will have things happen. Shooting at a drake you drop the drake and a susie 10-15 yards behind it takes a stray BB and you get over your hens. Shooting in a flock of ringbills you drop a ringbill and a CANVASBACK on accident. I can go on and on but in waterfowling if you hunt enough you will violate even if you don't do it on purpose. I am very good at identification and make very few mistakes. Like you I label my ducks and walk a tight line.

If someone sold me ducks that couldn't be distinguished between wild ducks because they neglected to mark them I could be in trouble. Sometime speole who are trying to do the right thing get pinched. I can live with that you can't let them off and get someone esle for it. Every waterfowler who hunts enough will occassionally have a accident happen and unintentionally violate. I really believe that. Unless you don't shoot!!

Bo may be guilty as sin and a big time violator. He may also be innnocent.

Just my opinions.


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## Nolte

krl

I agree with you on the part that no matter how careful you are, it is a possibility that you could violate a game law. Especially if you are from WI, we have some of the dumbest ticky-tac game laws that our wardens love to enforce. Then they try to throw a bunch at you. Let me say that I've never gotten a game citation but have been questioned numerous times, and every time it's like they already have their mind made up that I was guilty. That sort of stuff ticks me off. It almost makes you want to have done something wrong, because at least then the treatment would be justified.

About the issue at hand, I've got no clue if he is guilty or not. I think it would be best if we waited till the verdict before labeling this guy a poacher or not. There has been a whole lot of speculation and we'll se what the results are.


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## Bob Kellam

Just like you I have been expressing my opinions as well. Want references on my hunting ability? send me a PM I will give you names and numbers to check it out. Don't assume I will make a mistake hunting because you possibly have. Good lord man! Why does everything have to turn into a pissing match. I stated I felt IMO that Bo. was a poacher now the tables turn and you are acusing me of either being a liar or dishonest about my hunting ability, calling me ignorant and other things. Just because I brought up an issue and expressed my opinion. am I not allowed to have one on this subject? because mine differs from yours I am ignorant! You think I am the scum of North Dakota Sportsmen


> I have hunted in ND. I bought licenses and hunted several times over a period of 3 years. I didn't think too many were like you!!!!


 You do not know me or know of me you seem to form an opinion about me due to posts I have made on this thread. I have stated observation I have made by people that have posted information on this thread and expressed my opinion. I don't recall using ignorant toward anyone here.

Later
Bob


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## krl

The only thing I consider you ignorant about is dog training. You call it a good ole boy club and say we feel we can shoot and transport anything wihtout reguard to the law, etc, etc.

I was a little harsh to make a point. YOu are a little harsh with saying dog trainers think they are above the law and can do as they please. YOu aren't ignorant about hunting, ND issues, ND wardens, etc. YOu know ND more than me.

I can't believe someone who has hunted 40 years hasn't made an honest violation of game laws. Unless you don't hunt much. Maybe you are lucky or just that good. If you had one goose to go and downed an extra goose because you accidentally hit 2 with one shot you are a violator! You didn't do it on purpose maybe but you violated the rules. I don't talk to many duck hunters who won't admit on occassion you viollate the rules when NOT TRYING. Doesn't make it right but when you are afiend sooner or later it will happen. Unless you only shoot singles or are extremely lucky.

I don't have a negative attitude toward you nor do I think negatively towards you or anyone else who has posted here. You have a right to your opinion and you may be right and I may be wrong. Doesn't really matter. I think you have discussed civilally even if I don't agree with everythign you say. Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I am right and you are wrong. IOn fact the opposite could be true.


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## buckseye

Krl has been laying it on so thick it would choke an elephant!!!  Don't hurt the resources, you have obviously never seen how some dog trainers work if you really believe that.


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## Bob Kellam

> Unless you don't hunt much.


50 days afield last year is my all time high for days hunted. This year I will be down a little. Check some of my other posts on this site you will find out what my philosophy is on hunting and what i consider a quality hunt. it has nothing to do with getting that last bird to get my limit. I lost one of my sons a few years back and I hunted solo for a few years. That is what it took for me to get over the fact that I no longer had a constant hunting companion, My younger son did not want to hunt with me as he was dealing with things in his own way. In that time I had a lot of time to think and it changed my view of hunting. Now some years later I hunt with only my son, brothers or close friends that I grew up with that now mostly live out of state. I could really give a rats a$$ if you believe me or not. I know where i am at and i know my limitations and abilities and I stay within those boundries.

Good day
Bob


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## KEN W

You know what....I went back to the beginning of this thread....there are 11 people making their first couple posts on this website on this one thread.

Did this Bo Taylor ask you guys to do this?

Is it on a retriever training wbsite somewhere?

How would all of you guys know about this one thread on this one website?

Sure sounds like a "good ole boys club" to me.


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## Bob Kellam

Ken

You need to re- read the posts, someone of Bo's stature would never do something like that :eyeroll: I bet he doesn't even need a dog to retreive his birds. He justs walks right across that water and picks them up himself! 

Just an opinion from one of the ignorant sportsmen (oh thats right i can't call myself that either) hunters from this site!

This is one of the longest threads that I can remember where Respect for and Defense of Natural Resources and the tradition of hunting and the laws of ND is lost in the praise for a guy that has been charged with a crime. go figure!

Bob


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## krl

Ironically I lurked for a long time. It is also posted on a dog board but not everyone knows who he is there. If Bo is facing trial I doubt he wants others posting anything publically. I highly doubt even if he is innocent he is talking to people about this. Probably not in his best interest.

Some may have lurked or some may have heard about it on other boards.

Reguardless of what you guys feel about trainers. They can be a tight nitch of people but I don't think they try to get people who have things coming out of situations. Nor do I think they can have nay impact on what happens here.

I would rather people didn't have a negative image of dog trainers. Especially since we are fellow sportsman. I don't know all dog trainers and I especially don't know a lot of dog trainers in ND. Maybe the ones that go to ND or are from ND originally are slobs. Not sure. The ones I have run into throughout hte country are pretty good people.

I guess I wish we could stand united because although you may be a far cry from loosing hunting rights in ND., I think many states are feeling pressure. We need to sort out the bad sportsman because they give us a bad name. Reguardless of whether they are dog trainers or not. We need to stand behind the good sportsman and stand united for all sportsman if we want to protect the shooting sports.

I am a hunter safety instructor in WI and h ave been for over 10 years. My dad for 20+ now. I am a very careful and cautious sportsman. Reguardless of whether the individual in this case did wrong or not we need to be careful not to make assumtions and make a big spectacle.

In my travels and experiences I have experienced most people who take the time to train a dog or have a dog profeessionaly trained are gennerally good sportsman. Much better than the average guy who hunts w/.o a dog or with a poorly trained dog. Just my experience.


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## KEN W

Dog board....yeah I thought so.....now can you see where us ND people would think this is from a "good ole boys" club?


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## always_outdoors

krl wrote:

_They can be a tight nitch of people but I don't think they try to get people who have things coming out of situations._

Tight niche is right. Good ole Boy.

_I would rather people didn't have a negative image of dog trainers. Especially since we are fellow sportsman. _

You and the others posting here have done that for yourselves.

I have 20 plus years working with youth as well. Nobody is discrediting our resumes here. The facts are simple. this guy has been written up because a law enforcement agent found fault in him. He might be guilty, he might not be, but facts are facts and it there are just too many little loopholes and "mistakes" that just add up to the things that Bob and the others have stated.

If you want to stand together, we all have to be on the same page. Are you going to apologize to us for your posts if he is found guilty or are we going to have to hear more stories about how our lawyers and judges are like WI and wanted publicity or some other odd scandal where you try and degrade us and our people?[/quote]


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## krl

I guess I would apologize but I am not sticking up for him or saying he is in teh right. I don't know. I do know that everyday and all over people are accussed and booked on things that they didn't do or are misunderstandings.

We presented how it is possible he isn't a poacher. ND residents presented their wardens are different and less likely to book on false charges. Sounds like the warden is a top notch warden and he may have things exactly right.

It really doesn't matter. IF he gets off I am not saying he is innocent either. I hope if he is in the wrong his lawyers don't get him off on a technicality. I hope if he does abuse ND's resources, GA's resources, WI resources, etc he pays the appropriate penalties.

If someone has unmarked birds and transports birds, doesn't have a dog training license etc, they are guilty of not following the law. THe laws aren't meant to follow the ones you feel convenient or the ones that work for you. IF you don't agree with teh law you follow it. You can try and have it changed but you should still follow the law. I think we agree on that.

Dog trainers who don't follow the rules run the risk of being caught. Don't paint all dog trainers that way because some here say they don't label their birds and transport them, etc, etc.

I won't post anymore. I will go back to lurking.


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## MRN

Here's the source of these guys.
Popped up here a couple days ago:

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums ... hp?t=25850

Don't tell us we don't know about dog training in ND.

M.


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## dogman

I have 6 bird dog's, not a pro trainer. I use tame birds to train my dogs. I'm looking for 20 quail to tune up dogs before quail season starts in here in OK. I have ran my springer in NAHRA hunt tests. We used mallards and pheasants. The hen pheasants are cheaper than the roosters. Do not know Bo, but having that many birds for dog training does not seem out of the question.


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## GreenEyes

buckseye said:


> Don't hurt the resources, you have obviously never seen how *some* dog trainers work if you really believe that.


Hello buckseye...what have you seen? But, I would hope the key word is "some" just like some "hunters" and some "outfitters" and some...etc.

There are bad apples in every crowd, although I do not know what you are referring to, but we sure try to make sure that the bad apples don't spoil the whole barrel, whether we are talking about dog trainers or hunters or outdoorsmen...etc.

Overall we need to band together, not split apart, because we need all the huntng/hunter support we can get as anti-movements continue to grow.

As far as someone is guilty or innocent time will tell...that is a different subject.

You see that this is my first post. Also, I train dogs. Most of all, I have hunted all my life since I was a child. But, I have been lurking here since 2003...that was the year I came through North Dakota en route in a roundabout way to Idaho that June, and I wanted to see the birthplace/homeplace of a dog training mentor of mine that had died just the December prior. That would be Streeter. I stopped when I was going out to Idaho and again when I was coming back, talked to and met some people, including Sheldon, took a lot of photos, drove around. Ate one of those German/Norwegian whatever it is fruit-type pies (the one I tried was peach) that are almost the size of a plate and kind of flat...for the life of me I cannot remember what they are called. No I didn't eat the whole thing. LOL. Later that year I heard about the unfortunate circumstances surrounding Sheldon who I had met in June, and an internet search brought me to this site. I have lurked ever since. I was quite taken with North Dakota when I was there and hope to go back...a reason for my lurking and reading since then.

The only point I am trying to make by writing this post is that it is never a wise thing to use a broad paintbrush on any group of people, and that we all collectively as hunters need to band together, not split apart.

Any bad apples will pay their dues.

Thanks for reading.

-- Vickie Lamb


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## buckseye

I have seen 20 dogs 3 horses two with black men riding them hollering whistling their way about the country side until their horses are skin and bones and the birds are all gone that's what I have seen and I have seen it more than once. We have a hero of all yours around this part of the country and he has openly admitted his dogs do kill wild game, especially young broods that cannot fly yet... that is a start of what I have seen from that lot!!! :evil:

I do agree with your last paragraph 

In retrospect this post puts me back to where I started in my interaction on this website. Ol Bobm and I discussed southern dog trainers about two years ago on here. It just keeps going round and round!!!


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## Bob Kellam

Welcome to the site Vickie and dogman

I am the person that called Bo a poacher, I am the one that also explained why I thought so. I agree that we should all stick together. I will not, however, stick together with anyone that wants to try and minimize infractions of any laws, especially wildlife violations. I have known about the retreiver site that MRN mentioned for some time. Recent viewings of that site show a diverse reaction to the subject as well. There are several more that I know of and the reaction is about the same. Here is where it seems to be the most intense, maybe it is because it happened in our state. People come to North Dakota from all corners of the globe to take part in out wonderful hunting opportunities. check my posts, I typically welcome them and help them in any way possible much to the chagrin of some of my fellow North Dakotans.

When you stand in some of our shoes and witness the Sheldon's and Bo's of the world entering your home state and allegedly (not in Sheldons case) step on the rules that govern the natural resources that some of us have put our heart and soul into finding a way to preserve for the next generation, well lets just say it flips the switch.

I have been learning a great deal about trials training and still I struggle with the lax management of waterfowl, dead and alive, admitted to by many that train.

Welcome again to this site
Enjoy your stay.

Bob


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## Ron Gilmore

For all of you dog trainers out there, why are you making this an issue about that! What really sticks out in all of this that so many of you are overlooking is the fact that our G&F have a great track record on these types of busts!

The issue is clear, Bob posted the charges. 10 birds 300 birds no one really cares how many he needs to train birds if those birds are pen raised. The charge is possession of wild birds! Do you guys not get it!!

This is not an indictment of dog training, just an indictment of a person who trains dogs! I think the majority of people understand this, but it seems that some do not.

ND has few rules regarding training of dogs and where they can be trained. I think it may be time to open the eyes of our legislators to some needed over site. This is especially important with all the talk of the bird flu. Keep picking and poking and you may be surprised at what jumps out of the bag to bite the hand doing the poking!


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## Bob Kellam

Here is the North Dakota Century Code as it relates to propagate, domesticate, or possess birds or animals.

http://www.state.nd.us/lr/cencode/t201c09.pdf

I find nothing about Licenses and Fees for Training dogs.

Not much I like about California ( nothing personal!! don't jump my stuff if you are from CA) except i thought this was pretty well thought out.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/enforcement/dogtrain.html

Time for ND to get on board!!

Bob


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## g/o

Bob, I believe a non resident professional trainer license is $100.00. I know there is such a thing because I know some have been busted for not having one.


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## Bob Kellam

Must be a Game and fish rule or it is in another section than Game Fish and Predators.

Thanks g/o I will keep looking.

Bob


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## GreenEyes

Bob,

Thank you for the welcome.

And when I say that we should all stick together I am talking about all the good apples. Any bad apples would need to clean up their act and become good apples, because bad apples do not reflect well on the things that we are passionate about and hold dear to our hearts.

So, we are in agreement about that.

Ron,

The only thing I tried to point out about dog trainers was _because_ some comments had been made on here about dog trainers that _could_ be taken as some as blanket statements. I feel that would be unfortunate.

Otherwise, everything is pretty clear and eventually the truth will come out. I think it is pretty obvious that most of the dog trainers that have posted on here certainly do not support wanton disregard for laws.

Thanks for reading.

-- Vickie Lamb


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## buckseye

I would like to read what the trainers do when their dogs come across a covey of young birds that can't fly. Is there a standard way you handle this or is it a casualty of your business???


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## GreenEyes

First of all, I believe you are referring to bird dog trainers, although they are dog trainers, just the same.

The example you gave earlier about the horses skin and bones and no birds left anywhere do not represent ethical, conscientious trainers, who in contrast take pride in their horses as well as their dogs and would never let anything be reduced to skin and bones. The hero you mention? Cannot comment due to no knowledge of whom you speak. Also, the bird dog trainers that I know and their dogs, and my own personal bird dogs that I've worked with, are under control by the time they are worked in the field and do not bust up found coveys. The early stuff is best and most efficiently done in the "yard" and controlled environments.

Regarding retrievers, which I have been training since I was a kid and for about 30 years...I have never had one of my dogs mess with a young covey of birds. My dogs don't mess with rabbits or other creatures either. They are under control by the time they are brought to the field. Even when I am working on upland quartering for hunting purposes (field trials have no quartering exercises, some hunt tests do) my dogs are trained to sit to flush.

Hope this helps. I can only speak about what I know.


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## buckseye

I don't believe you represent the dog trainers we get out here at all, these guys bring young dogs and train them, they don't take them on walks with a leash on. Candy coating is cool but don't blow smoke!!! :-?


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## GreenEyes

With all due respect, buckseye, I'm not candy coating a thing and I do not smoke, nor do I blow it. Meet me sometime and you will find that what you see is what you get.

I train young dogs too, but by the time they are four months old (or less) they know right from wrong and general rules about life. I take my dogs for walks without restraint, too, and have never yet have any of my dogs mess with a young covey that cannot fly.

-- Vickie Lamb


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## buckseye

You must have specific areas that do not hold birds to train in then, because out here the dog trainers seem to need to be in areas that hold a lot of natural game. We don't see them where there aren't wild birds. 

Thanks for your responses


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## sonney

I can only speak for retriever trainers, but when most young dog training takes place in fields with low to medium cover to build confidence on the marks or blinds that are run, even stubble fields work great. So not typical cover that would hold a lot of game. As a trainer I do not want wild game in the mix as I am trying to teach a structured lesson for my dogs. I can not speak for bird dog trainers.


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## gaddyshooter

I'm with Ron on this one. The issue doesn't seem to be about dog training or the fact that dog trainers sometimes have large numbers of birds in the freezer. This guy was charged with guiding without a license. Not guiding for the purpose of training dogs. Guiding for the purpose of hunting. This guy was charged with laundering of clients birds. This clearly means wild birds that his "hunting" clients would have shot. Sounds like he thought he could get away with having that many birds in the freezer and then use his dog training business as a cover. They may very well have been in the process of training dogs while hunting. Sounds like to me what he was doing was using the abundance of wild ducks in ND as a training tool and he got caught. Says nothing about the dog training world, so I don't understand all the trainers coming to his rescue. Will be one for the court system to sort out. My feeling on this one is, is it was just the number of birds in the freezer, yes it may be a mistake that he didn't have the paperwork to show where the birds came from. With the other charges of guiding etc, I don't believe that is the case.


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## sonney

Gaddy, Good point, leave dog training out of it, right is right and wrong is wrong and let the courts deciede.


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## Old Hunter

First off I would like to thank the dog trainers of the country for explaining to us NOdakers about dog training, frozen birds , and dog trials. We would be so ignorant with out you. 
Krl Pro dog trainers have been abusing this state for years. We passed laws to try to control trainers fron training on young sharptails. This is done preseason. The birds are young and hold well. I dont take my labs into the cover at this time as they will retrive the young birds . This was determined to be detramental to the sharptails at a young age. We stopped it on state land and waterfowl production areas. There is a Wisconsin breeder in my town that gives a free duck hunt with a sale of one of his dogs. This sounds like guiding to me . 
GreenEyes your hanging with a bad group in the Streeter area 2 rape charges and a conviction for GSI is more than an "unfortanate circimstance.
People all over the United States are cashing in on the North Dakota hunting resources. The residents of North Dakota are getting damn tired of it.


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## GreenEyes

Old Hunter said:


> Krl Pro dog trainers have been abusing this state for years. *We passed laws to try to control trainers fron training on young sharptails. *This is done preseason. The birds are young and hold well. I dont take my labs into the cover at this time as they will retrive the young birds . This was determined to be detramental to the sharptails at a young age. *We stopped it on state land and waterfowl production areas*.


Well, that sounds like a responsible approach to taking care of a problem. I think that is commendable. Again I will comment that not all dog trainers abuse resources and break laws.



Old Hunter said:


> GreenEyes your hanging with a bad group in the Streeter area 2 rape charges and a conviction for GSI is more than an "unfortanate circimstance.


Old Hunter, I am not HANGING with that group. As I stated, I went to Streeter to see the town and area where a person very dear to me was raised and spent his young years. He was born in 1916 and was like a grandfather to me. He died in December of 2002 and in June of 2003 I went to Streeter twice.

On my second trip to Streeter I met Sheldon and spoke with him approximately 30 minutes. It was "unfortunate" to me as I was shocked to hear later than year and since of the things that came down and the person I met didn't seem to fit that bill; I was filled with utter dismay and a zillion other negative things and watched to see if it was true. Obviously, quite obviously for heavens sake, the scope of what he did goes far beyond unfortunate...that should go without saying. Can you tell when briefly meeting someone if he is the sort that would rape, sexually assault, and commit a host of game law violations? Sometimes when you meet a really bad apple you know instantly, but sometimes you have no clue...but maybe you are better at that than me. Quite obviously he had lots of people fooled before all of that came down, so apparently I am not the only one...and again, I had a very brief encounter with him on the street in front of the lot (house had long since been razed but many people in town were able to tell me where the house had been) where my friend was raised. Indeed, I brought that up (Sheldon) only to indicate how long I have been visiting this site. I certainly would not black-ball the whole town because of the acts of one or a few individuals.

Another thing that I think is quite "unfortunate" is the ability that some have to harbor what seems to be vicious animosity to people they have never even met and know nothing about. As far as I'm concerned life is far too short for that.

Thanks for reading.


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## Bob Kellam

Vickie

people can not usually tell but i do believe in the power of a first opinion. it often times is very valid.

When news broke a few years back on Sheldon we were doing the same thing then as what is going on with this thread. We are a small relatively close knit state and information gets out that is ususlly factual. Sheldon screwed up and when some of us talked about it here and expressed our opinions and people came to this site and did the same thong as they are doing with the information that concerns Bo.

We know our state we know our officials. When information comes out of certain areas of the state we know that the people involved did it right and the charges are probably valid. These charges come out of one of those areas. Aparently this is Bo's second offense, when it all shakes out Bo will probably still be a world class trials trainer that is probably more careful about the way he runs his business.

Bob


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## Tanglefoot34

If this were anyone besides a POPULAR AND WELL RESPECTED dog trainer, everyone would be calling for a hanging. Go look on his website. He specifically states that he spends October through May in Georgia and then starts to head north. Now this puts him in Georgia 8 months out of the year. I don't know about ND but most state hunting licenses specifically state on them before you buy them that to be considered a resident you must reside in the state for 6 months out of the year. He busts himself on his own website as far as that is concerned.

I do NOT agree with some of the people posting here that using wild birds for dog training instead of human consumption should be legal. You say you could beat the charge by claiming you are a conservationist? Why are you conserving birds? So you can shoot and waste more on dog training? I personally feel you should have to keep the breasts and thighs on ALL game birds. If you're to lazy to save the meat off of something you kill, then you are just a killer, you can not be classified as a hunter nor should you call yourself a conservationist. Some of the posts on here are rather offensive, you make bird hunting sound like target practice and the birds are not worth eating. Then I have to ask, why are you shooting these birds? I frequent the dog training boards and I am ashamed to even be associated with some of you. I have and train labs myself, but I don't go hunting waterfowl just to get more birds to train with. By this logic, if I train my dogs to track wounded deer I should be able to have stacks of dead deer on my property. I mean I am only using them to conserve game when I am actully hunting. So the 30 deer I kill and use for training should be justified to save that one legal deer I take during the season. Maybe if I kill the deer and take the back straps and sew them back up for training purposes this would be viewed as a little more ethical.

Some of you make it sound as if the rules are impossible to follow. Every one does something illegal?? Give it a rest.

If those 300 birds he had were wild birds, I hope it costs him a lot more than what most poachers get away with.


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## krl

I have to say I am embarrassed that some dog trainers think it is OK to waste wild birds to train with. So they can later waste more birds with a well trained dog. My dad taught me I didn't shoot anything I wasn't going to consume and I learned quickly to respect the game and only harvest what I would eat. I think it is a disrespect to kill and waste game.

Although the more I interact with people the more I realize there are a lot that don't think twice about wasting game. I really appreciate my father and what he taught me. I think a lot of people didn't have that same influence.


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## hydro870

> I do NOT agree with some of the people posting here that using wild birds for dog training instead of human consumption should be legal. You say you could beat the charge by claiming you are a conservationist? Why are you conserving birds? So you can shoot and waste more on dog training? I personally feel you should have to keep the breasts and thighs on ALL game birds. If you're to lazy to save the meat off of something you kill, then you are just a killer, you can not be classified as a hunter nor should you call yourself a conservationist. Some of the posts on here are rather offensive, you make bird hunting sound like target practice and the birds are not worth eating. Then I have to ask, why are you shooting these birds? I frequent the dog training boards and I am ashamed to even be associated with some of you. I have and train labs myself, but I don't go hunting waterfowl just to get more birds to train with. By this logic, if I train my dogs to track wounded deer I should be able to have stacks of dead deer on my property. I mean I am only using them to conserve game when I am actully hunting. So the 30 deer I kill and use for training should be justified to save that one legal deer I take during the season. Maybe if I kill the deer and take the back straps and sew them back up for training purposes this would be viewed as a little more ethical.


I could not agree more!

Chad - who eats what he shoots because that is what God intended when he gave us wild animals on the earth.


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## Mr. Lee

After reading this whole thread...it sure is different than the original post.



> Just heard from a friend from ND G/F that a warden caught 5 Georgia boys with 350 ducks. Thats what I call Southern Hospitality.


 I guess in time we will find out what actually happened.


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## fishless

In Time, my money is on the NDGF


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## DCOYNUT

this is exactly why the NODAK of 2005 is not the same site that it used to be. Everything no matter what the topic always turns into res vs. nonres. and it ****** me off. Why cry about everything, if you think that you are a better hunter than some nonres or a res. you dont need to tell everyone, cuz truthfully...no one cares.If some random douche from georgia commits a crime in our state its not because he is from georgia...its because he is a moron.

I remember coming on here when i was in high school and learning "The ways of the greats" and reading all the posts from the fellas who were actually hardcore. Now when i come on here and read the posts its all bickering and ranting. It definitly turned into a bunch of old hens *****ing about everything. It disgusts me.

great site...poor company.


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## AmiableLabs

Bob Kellam has made the statement here -- http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums ... ht=#267612 -- that all the birds have now been confirmed to be "wild" and not "pen-raised."

I replied to Mr. Kellam asking for his source, and he either did not see my post or chose to ignore it.

Can someone please verify with a source that Mr. Kellam is not in error? Or, not knowing Mr. Kellam, is he someone prone to hyperbole?

Thanks in advance.


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## Tanglefoot34

I am guessing he is making the assumption based off of what some one else posted. This person posted that he stopped by Bo's house while the F&G were there and he saw them counting the ducks and piling them into "Family" groups. I don't know how the F&G can tell which ones are related to each other, but I am guessing they use the finger technique.

Prone to "Hyperbole"?? Maybe, but doubtful.

Making an "Assumption" based on what some else said?? Probably.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

This thread has gone on awhile and I let this go because there was a lot of useful information on the laws surrounding retriever training.

If the gentlemen in question is guilty, the courts will decide. Since this individual is known around the country and he's facing some serious charges...of course this will be a hot issue.

*But we need to clean up the language and personal attacks.*

DCOYNUT, I'm doing all I can to keep the peace here. If you feel you must use profanity to make your point, PM me. Please don't post it here.


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## Tanglefoot34

*Quote from Misty Marsh Labradors on the retrievertraining.net forum. Page 3 - 12th post:*

I herad about this a few day's ago from a buddy. It end's up a mutual friend of our was dropping off thier dog for winter training and pulled into the yard with all the game wardens there. *Birds were all layed out in thier family groups in front yard being counted.* Bo ran most the summer up here in Canada and is a super nice guy, he and lynn are nice people and go out of thier way to keep trails moving along then they have multiple dogs in multiple stakes. Crappy situation and I hope it all works out one way or another! I for one must admit that I have....UM......2 or 3 birds in my freezer for training.

I am guessing this is where Mr. Kellam got his information. Granted it is heresay, but so is the fact that the 300 birds are pen raised.


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## Bob Kellam

AmiableLabs

Welcome to the site!

enjoy your stay.

For now you will need to take my word for it. It is, however, fact. I will post the source and information as soon as I am able to do so.

Bob

PS. I have been enjoying reading training info on your site, tons of great info!!


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## krl

Hmmm.. I guess i heard differnet recently. ANy new, news or developments? Anyone know when the trial data is?


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## Bob Kellam

No new Developments as of today, The investigation Continues.

Stay Tuned

Bob


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## wtrfowlhunter

ya i heard about that it happenend up around max i went there a week to hunt and there were a lot of birds


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## jeffeffinger

I am constantly amazed at the hyperbole and vitriol hurled about on this site. 
Mr. Gilmore asserts, with an aire of absolute infallibility, that SheldonSchlecht was convicted of rape and that he video taped the event. Of course a review of court records will show that this has no basis in truth. Mr. Kellam seems to forget that Sheldon Schlecht was, in fact, born in North Dakota. I have no idea as to where Mr. Kellam was born, neither could I be less interested.
As to the question of wild versus pen-raised mallards, and the methods for differentiation of same, that is a subject not open to debate. Federal law requires captive reared released mallards to have one hind toe clipped off and that they be fitted with a seamless metal band. If people on this site were less interested in invective, were more interested in the facts and were better educated the site would have far more value.


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## goldhunter470

I think this site has plenty of value. As for someone who feels the need to defend such a "person", well, I'm not so sure of their value. Bob Kellam is well respected on this site.

Also who cares if Sheldon was born in this state. I call a spade a spade. When someone is accused of being a pedo, poacher, and numerous other things, he probably deserves to be looked at a little harder.


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## Draker16

wow jeffe defending a poacher such a Sheldon makes you a real honorable person, and such a great addition to this site. uke:


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## AmiableLabs

jeffeffinger said:


> Federal law requires captive reared released mallards to have one hind toe clipped off and that they be fitted with a seamless metal band.


Citation please?

As an active Field Trial and Hunt Test participant in several states for several years, I have been personally involved with literally tens of thousands of pen-raised birds and never once have I seen a "seamless metal band." Toe-clipped? Yes. Paper tags around legs? Yes. But never a "metal band."



> If people. . . .were more interested in the facts and were better educated the site would have far more value.


Hmm. :-?


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## Bob Kellam

Jeff

Here is a partial list of violations the man you are defending has committed.

IMO You need to get a better role model.

BTW, Born and rasied in ND lived here my entire life except for a stint in college.

Sheldon's Game violations convitions

US fish & wildlife case #39776 
Synopis: 
Subject a commercial waterfowl guide was cited for 1) Driving off trial on WPA, and 2) cutting a WPA fence. Subject pled not guilty and requested a Magistrate trail. On 3/9/1998 subject was found guilty on both counts.

ND Game & Fish

Citation # 9210588 Commercial guide aiding- violation of law- Guilty 
Citation # 9210589 Hunt big game w/o wearing blase orange- Guilty 
Citation # 9210594 Hunting from motor vehicle-off estab. trail- Guilty 
Citation # 9210595 Carry a loaded firearm in vehicle- Guilty 
Citation # 9210597 Drive vehicle off established trail- Guilty 
Citation # 9210598 Accomplice to hunting Big game W/O license- Guilty

Shelden and ND G& Fish Food plots

Office of Attorney General 
Re: Game & Fish Dept. Wildlife Food Plot Agreement 
Dear Mr. Schlecht: 
The office of Attorny General has been retained to take whatever legal action may be required to obtain reimbursement or damages for breech of your Wildlife Food Plot Agreement with the North Dakota Game & Fish Department. Unless payment of $1,936. is received or satisfactory payment arrangemets are made within ten days of the date of this letter, we will take legal actions against you without further notice for the collection of the above amount, plus fees, costs and interest allowed by law.

The above letter had to do with G&F food plots. Two were posted, second, one of the food plots which Sheldon certified as planted, sprayed, and cultivated did not exist at all; and lastly, two of the plots were harveted.

There is so much more. Could go on and on. Not to mention pending charges. Starting Nov. 1. He is in prison for the rest of his sentence for Gross sexual imposition and one count of delivering alcohol to a minor.


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## Old Hunter

Jeff
I dont know why you brought Sheldon Schlecht's name into this thread but I would like to thank you for doing it. It gives me a chance to show another 10,000 people what a disgusting person he is. The more you stand up for him and bring his name to the internet the more damage you do to him. Keep it up please.
If you return to ND next fall to guide for the rapist you will find a lot less land to hunt. Sheldon had a 5 year deal with a lot of the farmers. That was up this year. Several of the big land owners are not going to lease to him in the future. They dont want to be part of a business that involves criminal activity.

Thank you again for the post You have done more damage to the rapist.


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## krl

I have never seen a pen raised bird with a seamless metal band.

I have seen them toe clipped.

I have no empathy for a game violater and a rapist. The second being worse but a convicted game violater is NOT high on my christmas card list.


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## Bob Kellam

BTW Good old Sheldon Pled Guilty on the Case in SD for illegal deer hunting on the Standing Rock Reservation. Sentencing is supposed to be next week.

He will add another conviction to his rap sheet. And they Still call the Outfitting Business Sheldons Waterfowl. I wonder if their clients have any idea.

Brooks Brothers are going to trial at the end of the month on their charges connected to the case.

stay tuned!

Bob


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## DucksAreUs

Anything new on the Bo Taylor case?


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## Bob Kellam

Yes

The news will be in the paper tomorrow, Bo got Spanked pretty hard!

There are many details, and I am going to choose to wait for the news to publish the fines and penalties!!

Bob


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## Chuck Smith

Bob can you keep us posted....I they won't publish that case in my area. Thanks

Chuck


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## Bob Kellam

Yes

The Minot Daily News was at the trial today. I am sure they will have all of the details in tomorrows addition.

I can tell you that the penalties and fines are the largest ever given in ND for wildlife violations.

Bob


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## Bob Kellam

Well the word is out KFGO just had a report that he lost his hunting privileges for 12 years and had to pay close to $9000.00 in fines plus some other stuff.

Wildlife Violators Compact also kicks in.

Bob


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## Ron Gilmore

Thanks for the update Bob! Will be interesting to hear the news report via the paper!


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## fishless

Thanks for the update Bob, If its not too much trouble could you post a list of the convictions and other stuff (when they become available) for all of us with out access to a local newspaper thanks


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## Bob Kellam

Georgia guide loses hunting privileges for 12 yearsAssociated PressWASHBURN, N.D. -

A Georgia hunting guide and dog trainer has lost his hunting and trapping privileges for 12 years and has been ordered to pay nearly $9,000 for breaking state wildlife laws.
Ferris "Bo" Taylor, of Pavo, Ga., was sentenced Wednesday in McLean County on misdemeanor charges of guiding without a license, exceeding the waterfowl possession limit, illegal possession of hen pheasants and misrepresentation in applying for a North Dakota hunting license.
State game warden Ken Skuza and warden supervisor Daryl Kleyer said earlier that an October search of a Douglas-area farm owned by Taylor turned up 351 whole ducks in freezers and three hen pheasants. Authorities also said Taylor falsely claimed to be a North Dakota resident in applying for a license.
The hunting and trapping restrictions in Taylor's sentence will extend to other states, including his home state, authorities said.
He was ordered to pay $8,775 to state Game and Fish Department programs.
Judge Bruce Haskell also ordered the suspension of Taylor's dog training privileges in North Dakota for 12 years, and put him on unsupervised probation.


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## gandergrinder

I think this is the first time I have actually thought in the case of a wildlife violation that the punishment fit the crime.

12 years wow.


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## Bob Kellam

This is a list of states that belong to the Wildlife Violators Compact

Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, Wyoming

Lose you hunting privileges in one state you lose them in all of them. Is it worth the risk?

I think after this sentence ND wildlife laws may be taken a little more seriously.

Bob


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## tb

This is what can happen when you have a good warden (Skuza) and a good state's attorney (Ladd Erickson).


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## wirehairman

Bob Kellam said:


> This is a list of states that belong to the Wildlife Violators Compact
> 
> Arizona, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Maryland, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, South Dakota, Utah, Washington, Wyoming
> 
> Lose you hunting privileges in one state you lose them in all of them. Is it worth the risk?
> 
> I think after this sentence ND wildlife laws may be taken a little more seriously.
> 
> Bob


I would guess Bo will relocate his operation to Canada (where I believe he already runs some trials).

Bob, do you know if Canada does something similar to the Wildlife Violators Compact?


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## Ithaca1

Mess with the Bull you get Ken Schuza!!!


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## Bob Kellam

I am just glad it is over. I guess I will always wonder what would cause a person to break the wildlife laws in such a flagrant manner.

I doubt that Mr. Taylor was always this way. My guess is that he was probably an ethical hunter at one time and abided by the rules.

He is a very well respected dog trainer, and what I have read about some of the dogs he has trained he is very very good at it.

later
Bob


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## Leo Porcello

12 years that is great!!! Hats off to all the authorities involved in this case. I hope they will continue to apply this kind of punishment for future violaters! Do the crime do the time! Also thank you Bob for keeping us posted on all of these things.


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## AmiableLabs

Ithaca1 said:


> Were is all of Bo's buddies now???


Grow up. All you are doing is exposing your ignorance.

All we "buddies" were asking for is that no one jump to conclusions. Pro retriever trainers use thousands of pen-raised birds a year in their operations, and we knew this could have been a possibility. Bo was outside the law, by appearances for nothing more than just wanting to save buck$, he deserves his punishment.



> Maybe shooting some pen raised mallards!!


Yes, we who compete in retriever hunt tests and field trials shoot pen-raised mallards to train and test our dogs competitively. Why pen-raised mallards? Obviously because it would be ethically wrong to use wild birds! (Remember? This is what this case was in part about?!?!) Yet you want to mock us for shooting the pen-raised. Buy yourself a clue about what you speak the next time BEFORE you open your mouth and prove yourself an idiot. :eyeroll:


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## Ithaca1

I apologize for accusing the dog training community for illegally taking mallards. But Bo Taylor burnt my butt and so did all the guys that defended him as a reputable individual. When people defended him I felt that it dishonored a very respected warden in this state. My real sore spot with Bo Taylor that he was illegally making money from a public resource and you will find sympathy from me right between sh%^t and syphlis in my dictionary. I don't appreciate being regarded as an idiot so don't let your million dollar mouth right checks your 5 dollar *** can't cash.


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## ND decoy

Easy boys, I have no problem with a friend of Bo's standing up for him before he was found guilty. That's what friends do. I would have a problem with some body trying to justify what he did now that he was found guilty.

12 years ouch, that's going to leave a mark.


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## Tanglefoot34

I'm glad he got what he did. Personally I would have liked to see the fine quite a bit higher and I would have liked to have seen the feds pursue the case also.

One of his buds posted on the Retriever Training site that he talked to Ferris (aka Bo) about all of this and that the birds were all legally taken by hunters just not tagged. I can't believe how many people post that they all do the same thing. You people are retarded. I wish the authorities would start monitoring these websites and start to pursue you poachers. Training dogs to save natural resources?? What a crock of sh_t! And what a waste of a resource.

Ohhh but Bo is the greatest and most respected dog trainer!! Who gives a crap? He's a real nice guy! Again, who gives a crap? He's also a poacher now, but who gives a crap. I don't know the guy and personally I don't think I would ever care to know the guy. I am just glad he finally got SOME of what he deserves.
My hats off to the North Dakota Fish and wildlife officer that caught this poacher. And also to the judge who gave out his sentence.


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## fishless

Im really glad to see the stiff penalties, hopefully now people will think before they violate any game laws in ND or anywhere else they hunt. Thanks again Bob for keeping us posted.


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## Bob Kellam

Dog trainer loses hunting, other privileges for poaching
By RICHARD HINTON 
Bismarck Tribune

A Georgia dog trainer has lost his hunting, fishing and trapping privileges for 12 years and was ordered to pay $8,775 in restitution as part of a wildlife case plea bargain in McLean County.

Ferris L. Taylor, of Pavo, Ga., also won't be allowed to train dogs in North Dakota for 12 years, and his guide and outfitter privileges are suspended for 12 years.

South Central District Judge Bruce Haskell accepted the plea agreement Wednesday.

Taylor was charged with over-limit possession of waterfowl, illegal possession of hen pheasants, misrepresentation on a license application by falsely claiming to be a North Dakota resident and guiding and outfitting without a license.

He also was ordered to not allow any hunters, guests or associates to use equipment or property he owns or leases in North Dakota for two years and to forfeit the ducks, decoys and shotgun shells seized in the case. There were no firearms involved.

The restitution amounted to $25 for each duck that North Dakota Game and Fish Department game wardens found in an Oct. 16 search of Taylor's Douglas-area farm.

District game warden Ken Skuza and warden supervisor Daryl Kleyer said the search turned up 351 whole ducks in freezers and three hen pheasants.

The $8,775 will go to NDGFD to be used for the Report All Poachers program or the hunter education program.

There was no jail time, but Taylor was ordered to pay $325 in court costs.

"I was more concerned about hunting privileges and guiding," said Ladd Erickson, McLean County state's attorney.

The suspended privileges amounted to three years on each count, running consecutively.

North Dakota and Georgia are members of the Wildlife Violator Compact, which means Taylor will not be allowed to hunt, fish or trap in any of the 21 compact states.

Erickson, who said he hunts, called the sentence appropriate.

"Under hunting ethics, you eat what you shoot. These ducks were being used for dog training purposes. It was wholesale commercialization of wildlife," he said. "I think I convinced the judge to make stiffer sentences."

Erickson also praised the wardens for making the case from a hunch after they checked a hunter who said his license was at the house.

"They said 'OK, we will go back to the house.' When they went back, they got suspicious and followed up on it," Erickson said.

Taylor, whose legal counsel, Timothy Purdon, appeared on his behalf in court, is known internationally for training retrievers. He operates Alecia Ridge Retrievers in Pavo, Ga.

(Reach reporter Richard Hinton at 250-8256 or [email protected];bismarcktribune.com.)


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## Dak

Has anyone heard more on the Sheyenne Valley Lodge issue that was floating around the board about a month ago?


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## Bob Kellam

Famous dog trainer gets harsh sentence

By KIM FUNDINGSLAND, Staff Writer [email protected]

An internationally known dog trainer has received one of the stiffest sentences ever given a game violator in North Dakota.

Ferris "Bo" Taylor, 34, Pavo, Ga., was ordered to pay $8,775 in restitution, $325 court fees, had his hunting, fishing, trapping and dog training privileges suspended for 12 years and received 60 days in jail suspended for two years. 
The suspension of hunting, fishing and trapping privileges is also in force in 20 other states that are members of the wildlife violators compact with North Dakota, including Taylor's home state of Georgia.

Taylor's attorney, Timothy Purdon of Bismarck, entered the guilty plea on his client's behalf to District Judge Bruce Haskell during a pretrial conference at the McLean County Courthouse Wednesday morning. Taylor was not in attendance.

The case against Taylor began on Oct. 16 when North Dakota Game and Fish Department warden Ken Skuza and warden supervisor Daryl Kleyer conducted a license check on a duck hunter in the Douglas area. The hunter, who did not have a license in his possession, claimed to be hunting with a guide and led the wardens to a nearby farmstead owned by Taylor.

After securing a search warrant, the wardens opened several freezers. They discovered 351 whole ducks and three hen pheasants. Further investigation led Taylor to be charged with over limit possession of waterfowl, laundering ducks for clients, illegal possession of hen pheasants, misrepresentation on a license application for falsely claiming to be a North Dakota resident and guiding and outfitting without a license. Taylor pled not guilty to those charges on Oct. 27, leading to Wednesday's pretrial conference.

McLean County state's attorney Ladd Erickson had praise for the investigative work of the wardens following Wednesday's guilty plea. "They knew there was no licensed guide in the area," said Erickson.

Chief game warden Bob Timian of Bismarck called the guilty plea a "good outcome," recognizing the severity of the sentence. "As far as the money and suspension, definitely on the high end of the bracket," said Timian. "The length of suspension is probably one of the longer ones we've ever had."

Skuza was in agreement. "It was the biggest waterfowl case I've ever worked and by far the biggest judgement," he said.

Taylor is a member of the Minot Retriever Club and the Brandon Retriever Club. He competed at retriever trials in Minot, Brandon, Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon during 2005. He handled "Slam," a dog co-owned by National Basketball Association star Shaquille O'Neal, to a first-place finish in the qualifying stake at the recent Minot trial. Taylor was chosen to represent the United States as a member of Team USA at the International Retriever Event at Sherborne Castle, England, in 2004.

In 2003, Taylor and Lynn Vincent were both cited for misrepresentation on a North Dakota small game license. Vincent was living at Taylor's Douglas area farmstead at the time. Both paid $475 fines on the misrepresentation charges. In October 2003, Vincent was also charged with not having a North Dakota dog trainer's license. She paid a $325 fine on that charge.

Taylor and Vincent operate Alecia Ridge Retrievers in Pavo, Ga., leaving each April for Douglas and training grounds in Canada. According to Wednesday's sentence, Taylor can have dogs in North Dakota from May to July 2006, while traveling to and from Canadian dog training events, but at no other time. In addition, Taylor shall not allow any hunters, guests or associates to use any equipment or property he owns or leases for a period of two years for guiding, outfitting or dog training.


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## 4CurlRedleg

NICE!!!! :thumb:


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## Bob Kellam

Dak

The issue with the Sheyenne Valley Lodge bunch is still ongoing. If you will pardon the pun they are still getting their ducks in a row 

Bob


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## Ramsey

> his hunting, fishing, trapping and dog training privileges suspended for 12 years


I might just have well received the death sentence...


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## Dak

Thanks Bob


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## Kyle B

Glad this is over. Thank you Bob for your ability to rise above the bickering throughout all of this.

As an aside, I met Officer Skuza this year while hunting in North Dakota. I have the utmost respect for him and the organization that he represents. Good luck and hopefully I will run into some of you on next years trip up north.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Well, I'd say this topic has some closure now but I will keep it open a bit longer for remarks and added things that pop up.

However, I have NO patience for personal attacks. I've already warned this topic once and I WON'T again. Any personal attacks from here on out on here will be an immediate ban, no exceptions.

Remember, there are young eyes here and keep the profanity down as well.


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## dosch

Wurd


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## Bob Kellam

Kyle B

Give us a shout before you come up. we will grab a cup or a can of something and enjoy ND hunting.

Bob


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## MRN

For anyone feeling sorry for this guy, notice that the guy is a repeat offender. The Fundingslands news story says he GOT CAUGHT with a res. Lic. in 2003 and paid a fine. Then to do it again???? That speaks strongly to intent - had had every intent of not following the rules the rest of us do. Judge Haskell was probably not impressed by this.

M.


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## Bob Kellam

I fully agree with Chris

Nothing good is coming from beating each other up over this issue. Bo pled guilty to charges that were agreed to by all parties. He received a stiff sentence for a stiff violation. If one of our life long friends got clipped would we not consider him a friend any longer? I wouldn't feel sorry for him because he violated the law but he would still be a friend.

This case will be remembered and it will be the measuring stick for us for future violations. Lets move on.

Bob


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## MRN

Move on?? He ain't my friend...

Absolving, ignoring, forgetting the outcome just shows complacency for the offense. One might hope we see none of that here.

I'm interested in seeing if folks see this as signaling the beginning of a change - where violators are finally receiving some punishment. If this guy gets 12 years no hunting, what should some of the more famous repeat offenders get upon their next violation?

M.


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## Dick Monson

> what should some of the more famous repeat offenders get upon their next violation?


Work release with an ankle bracelet.  Sort of a slap on the ankle.


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## Bob Kellam

M

He isn't my friend either, it was just an analogy. Are there others that should have been sentenced in the same manner? You bet!! Is this the proper forum to discuss it? I am not saying that I think we should quit talking about the penalties for game violations, on the contrary. If you want to start a discussion of those issues lets start a new topic and move on.

Bob


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## nodakoutdoors.com

As much as I hate to re-open this heated discussion, I just got word that Bo got busted again. This time in MN.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/bo_taylor.jpg


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## dosch

tough to read...to small for my blind eyes.


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## R y a n

It looks like he was convicted of having his dogs out working migratory birds in July in Minnesota?


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## nadz_MN

$262.00.. Geez.. boy, that'll teach him...What a joke


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## tumblebuck

> It looks like he was convicted of having his dogs out working migratory birds in July in Minnesota?


You need a permit in Minnesota to train dogs....



> A person may not train hunting dogs afield from April 16 to July
> 14, except by special permit. A person may obtain a special permit
> from a DNR conservation officer, without a fee, to train hunting dogs
> afield on land owned by the trainer or on other land with written permission
> of the owner. The written permission must be carried while
> training the dogs.
> A person training a dog afield and carrying a firearm may only
> have blank cartridges and shells in possession when the season is not
> open for any game bird, except by permit. An organization or individual
> may obtain a free permit to use firearms and live ammunition
> on domesticated birds or banded game birds from game farms for
> holding field trials and training hunting dogs.


He was sited for not having the permit.


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## sasklab10

he seems to be having a rough time.


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## markjens

Chris Hustad said:


> As much as I hate to re-open this heated discussion, I just got word that Bo got busted again. This time in MN.
> 
> http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/bo_taylor.jpg


I'm interested in who you may have heard this from. There was a ticket issued by DNR....that officer later told Bo to tear it up.


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## sasklab10

from a previous discussion with one of Bo's training partners, i believe he was having trouble with the owner of the land he was training on


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## Bob Kellam

If you check out the link supplied by Mr. Hustad it clearly states that Bo was charged with two misdemeanors a migratory bird violation and having a dog afield without a permit during normally restricted times.

A monetary payment was made in the total of $262.00

It doesn't look as though the ticket was "torn up" and how does this have anything to do with having trouble with the landowner or their land.

Was Bo supposed to be responsible to obtain all of the proper permits for the training activity of having his dog(s) afield or did he assume he could use the landowners permit?

I really do not know the answers the only fact I do know is the court docket states; State of Minnesota vs. Ferris Linwood Taylor the case number (33-VB-06-998) The charges, his attorneys name, the judges name and an arraignment date of 10/17/2006.

Bo broke the law in ND and was given a severe sentence. Is this just a coincidence?

Bob


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