# 3 1/2 12 Gauge vs. 10 Gauge for geese!!



## BandHunter

Ok I am posting this to get some really good imput. My father and both have a 10 gauge Ithica shutguns. We used them a lot this spring hunting white bastards and we did very well using Federal BBB. We killed geese dead anywhere from 30 yards in the air to close to 90 yards.Now mind you not every shot we fired at that distance did we get geese, but I would say 1 out of every three gun loads at that distance we pulled down a couple geese. My question to you is can a 3 1/2 12 compete witht that?

I just bought a new Benelli 3 1/2 12 semi auto so that is why i am courious... And if it can compete what shot size shots are the best? I know a lot of you guys dont like the fact that people shoot at birds that far, but my dad told me something once that " You cant get em if you dont shoot" And I guess feel the same way and I guess old Mr Federal will always have a good supply of shells for me to buy and shoot up? So if you guys could give me some good insite at on this let me know.. Lets put it this way that Benelli is a lot lighter then my 10 and if i dont have to lug that beast all over creation it wouldnt hurt my feelings any at all..Thanks for the imput...
Bandhunter


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## DuckBuster

90 Yards?!? Are you nuts? Yeah, it's true you can't kill 'em if you don't shoot, but how many birds are you wounding for every one you get? A 12 gauge 3 1/2" is plenty of gun for waterfowl. Use common sense and shoot at reasonable distances and you will have no problem keeping up with the 10 gauge. The only thing I shoot for geese is 3 1/2" dueces. My kill percentages went up when I switched to that load from 3 1/2" BB.


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## BandHunter

Well you can wound just as many geese at 40 yards as you can at 90 yards.. I mean we have jumped flocks at 40 yards and pulled down 15 geese in six shots how many do you think could have been wounded that we didnt get..I am not argueing that point.. Geese do get wounded, but i am just asking if the 3 1/2 can compete with the 10.. Thanks for your insight.. Anyone else have an opinion?
Bandhunter


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## dblkluk

90 yards??? You're telling me your killing geese nearly a football field high? :eyeroll: 
Some guys really like the tens, but for me I'll stick to the twelve, that way I have the option of many different loads and for the combo hunts, I don't have to carry two guns. My 2 cents.


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## BandHunter

Yeah we have killed a lot of birds at that distance this spring. It can be done just got to lead a good distance and let her buck.. I wish i would have gotten it on video tape..But the BBB out of the ten sure does reach out and touch them it is just my 10 is heavy and if i can leave it at home and carry my 12 i would like it a lot better.. We have called in Coyotes at that distance and killed them dead (well not dead but they run 50 or 60 yards and tip over)with buck shot out of the 10s too. Thanks..
Bandhunter


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## GooseBuster3

90 yards shots....you brought yourself into this mess by posting that. We havent killed one goose that high this spring we dont waste the money for time trying to pass shoot birds at that range!! You must be a moron for doing so! I just sit a laugh at guys like you! :eyeroll:


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## BandHunter

Look i am not trying to pick a fight. I am just asking if the 3 1/2 could be as effective as the 10 at that range or closer? And what loads you guys shoot? That is it I am not insuliting the way you hunt and i dont think that you should insult the way I hunt we killed a lot of snows this year.Our group ended up with a 177 this spring we do alright..I am just asking about performance not for you to judge..Thanks now if you can tell me how well these 3 1/2 work compared to 10...Can someone answer my questions?
Bandhunter


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## GooseBuster3

10 gause has more punch, but the 3.5 12 also does the job. I shoot a 12 3.5 cause I can use it on everything. Just my .02


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## Militant_Tiger

most people are terrible judges of distance


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## BandHunter

Yeah most people are terrible judges of distance..


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## dblkluk

> I am just asking if the 3 1/2 could be as effective as the 10 at that range or closer?


No gun should be considered "effective" at ranges over 50 yards. Sure birds have been knocked down at greater distances , but really you are wasting shells and injuring birds. Your twelve will work great in all situations, just work on getting them a little closer! :beer:


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## Leo Porcello

DBLKLUK is just mad cause I proved the 10ga firepower when I was knocking them down on Sunday at 120 yards using Hevi BBs. :beer:


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## Canada_Hunter

shooting birds at 90 yards...???you should check with a range finder and see if you really shoot geese that far...mann your barrel must be 20 feet ahead the bird...and 3 1/2 dont compare to a 10 gauge...not even close...10 gauge greater velocity,better pattern and more pellets 8)


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## Canada_Hunter

i forgot to add,you killed 177 birds this spring...thats great...in fact,you killed twice that number if wounded birds count......you sure dont care about that :eyeroll:


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## Maverick

I got to admit 90yds is up there. Maybe with a Wad Wizard or something but still hard to bring down at 90? 12 gauge is more diverse while 10 is a more of a bigger bird gun. Stick with the 12. Our crew took alot of birds and most were takin with 12's at about an average of 10-20 yds.

Mav...


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## BandHunter

Canada Hunter i made referance to that earlier. We have knocked down 15 geese in six shots on a jumping flock of snows at 40 yards that we have put the sneak on. Do you think that it is possible to possible hit more then one goose at 20-80 yards... There is always a chance of hitting more the bird you are aiming at. No matter if you are shooting at 20 yards or 100 yards...That isnt what i was asking dont pick fights.. Thanks for you help guys i guess i will just have take it out this fall and sit in a pass and try it out for myself and see what the 3 1/2 12 can do.. Any buddy have any favorite loads that pattern well fo rthem out of the 3 1/2?I heard BB works well? How about BBB that seems to work well out of the 10?
Bandhunter


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## Leo Porcello

> Stick with the 12. Our crew took alot of birds and most were takin with 12's at about an average of 10-20 yds.


 Couldn't agree more!!

As most know I 99% of the time use my 10ga. However there are days I just can not hit with it. So Sunday night that is what was happening. So I switched to my 12 ga using 3" 3s. First shot I dropped two. The guy I was with was using a 20ga. We shot 28, 3 of which were cripples, but the cripples stayed in the decoys as they were pretty much dead. So no lost birds and all takems were called at 5 to 10 yards.

I think most are using too big of shot for those kind of shots. My personal opinion (from my personal experiance) is that at close range (10 to 20yds) 3s and 4s will consistantly kill geese. I know most times my 10 is over kill, I just like the way it feels. Just my :2cents:


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## dblkluk

> DBLKLUK is just mad cause I proved the 10ga firepower when I was knocking them down on Sunday at 120 yards using Hevi BBs.


Bwahahahahh!! Good thing you were hittin them at 120 yards cause you were missin' em at 20!!! :lol: :beer:


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## gandergrinder

Yes you can kill birds at the maximum range say 90 yds but from a physics standpoint the pellets do not have the energy to drive through a bird at the very extreme end of the range. They just will not come down from body shooting them at the extreme ranges.

So it doesn't matter if you shoot a 10 a 12 or a 410 the pellets have to get there with enough punch to do the job.

Now I know some guys who can shoot the lights out but there are very, very few of them that can consitently shoot geese at 60+ yards. Yes there are some guys who can kill birds at that range but the percentages are not very good.


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## Blake Hermel

I have both a Ten and Twelve.

10 is good for ditch horring,long range shots, and early migrators that dont get below 50 yards. My 12 is lethal in the decoys with 3 1/2" 2 shot or 3 shot. That is the best load which gives you accuracy even if your not a good shot, while still allowing for longer shots. You may have more cripples though.


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## Guest

I load my X2 with 3 1/2 High Velocity, #4's and a patternmaster choke tube. I'd say that'd be equivelent to a 10 gauge for geese. It's about how many bb's hit where you're aiming. I'd like to try a 10 but from what I've heard it's pointless, plus, every ten I've held feels like a bag of dogfood in my arms!!! :lol:


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## Dave K.

Get the 12!
I used a 10 gauge BPS once and it felt like I was shooting a fence post. :2cents:


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## Brad Anderson

Bandhunter, don't let them rattle ya. Some people can't hit anything anyway, regardless of range. 20 0r 60 yards, if ya knock it down, thats what counts. I'll be the first to abmit I've dropped some outta the stratoshere, big deal.

I can remember when lead was legal for waterfowl. Nothing was wounded. Everything was "in range". Birds didn't have a chance.


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## Ryan_Todd

I also have an x2 with a patternmaster and 1 agree with #1 waterfowler. what you loose in pellet count is made up for in pattern consistancy. go with the 12.


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## Leo Porcello

> every ten I've held feels like a bag of dogfood in my arms!!!


Hey DBLKLUK is that what mine felt like carrying it across the field?


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## dblkluk

Yessum!! It sho' was, can I carry anythin' else fo' you sir????   
Next time the birds are coming in I'll be sure to give you a headstart out of the blind!! A guy should need it with that cannon!!!


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## Leo Porcello

Hey I did not ask you to carry it. You volunteered. I am sure it will be the last time you ask to carry her!


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## GooseBuster3

If I was going to go and buy a brand new shotgun again it would be 10 gauge for sure though. I just like the extra pellets and over kill when are coming into close ranges. There nothing better then to see a Snow goose pillow case at 10 yards!


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## smokin gun

I have read all of the post here and for the life of me can't understand why everyone is beating on the guy with the 10 ga. I realise that the idea is to get the birds in as close as possable to make a clean kill. BUT with the new laws in affect , we have to use nontxic shot. It makes it a lot harder to kill the birds. Only because the loads are lighter and do not have the energy that LEAD has. I have been Hunting Geese for 36 years and have killed a LOT of them. I hated to switch over to steel. Shooting Geese at the same distance with steel will give you a lot more feathers and more cripples. So here is what I did I bought a 10ga. And would not shoot GEESE with nothing else. Now that everyone has to use steel, everyone forgets it does not have the knock down power that LEAD HAD!
Useing a 10ga. and larger shot size, will give greater power. Just because someone shoots a goose at 90 yrds. does not mean he shoots them ALL the time. I look at it as a BONUS!!! I have shot them at that distance too
but NOT all the time. I will try 1 shot AFTER ALL the guys with me useing 12 ga. guns have emptyed their guns. And 9 out of 10 times I will drop 1.
Don't forget these geese are flying straight away too. And I am useing 
Hand loaded (TTT) loads. 1 pellet will bring them down.
I have been useing a Remington SP10 Magnum for 3 yrs now and love it.
YES it is heavey, but when you are in a blind you are not always holding it up in the shooting possition are you? NO I don't think so.
So LET UP on the guy with the 10 GA. 
Here is the answer to his Question.
NO!!!! A 12 ga. DOES NOT COMPARE TO A 10 GA.


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## Chesador

A larger bore will patter better than a smaller one. For large shot size the quality of the patterns is significantly improved by the larger bore. A 12 ga 3.5" with a .729" standard bore size is a great compramise but not the equal of a .775" 10 ga bore. Remember, "Keep the shot column square!"

Of course, a 10 ga or even a Bofors 40MM anti-aircraft gun is worthless for hunting geese if it doesn't fit you and you can't hit anything with it. Stick with a gun you shoot well.


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## rowdie

This looks like a pretty old thread, but a good title.

My friend has a 3.5" 12 ga, and I have a 10 ga. double barrell with 32" barrells. We were side by side shooting at passing geese from the river to the feed. We like to pass shoot them so we can shoot more instead of chasing them out of the feed. Anyway, he would shoot and we could hear the bb's hitting the geese, then I would shoot, after he was done, and I would bring 1 down. By the time I had my limit....he was out of ammo, so I let him usy my cannon, and then he got his limit!

Now he might be able to buy better 3.5" shells, but I would never try to compare a 3.5" 12ga. to a 10 ga.


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## spartina

Over here there used to be s/s used for game shooting predominantly , a quick way to judge was if the wingtips were visible either side the (side/side) barrels the goose was shootable.... Don't know how you could apply that idea to a single barrel auto though......

spartina


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## Cinder

Most of the articles I have read say the ten guage has a shorter shot string than the 12 guage 3 1/2 inch and should be more effective. Same reason a 20 guage 3 inch gun shooting 1 1/4 oz loads is not as effective as a 12 guage 2 3/4 inch gun shooting 1 1/4 oz loads. It is a good idea to pattern your gun, but that still won't tell you how long of a shot string you have. In England some bird hunters use 8 guage guns, with I think 2 1/2 inch shells and 1/14 oz loads --- they have a very effective pattern and I think they make a lot sense, too bad they are illegal here.

Also, for me at least, I think the heavy ten guage causes me to follow through better than I do with my benilli. The benilli is sure easier to carry though.


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## leeroyboy

I shoot both the 10 and the 12. And I believe the 3 1/2 12 gauge shells have really been improved to where the speed of the shot is now probably even faster (just a tad, bragging rights you know) than maybe some of the 10 gauge loads. If hitting your target is equal with both gauges, then I believe the 10 gauge will always have more knock down power just because it throws a larger amount of shot. And more shot always equals more chances of a knock down shot. I love my 10 gauge and shoot it almost exclusively. It is heavier, the recoil seems lighter than shooting the long 12 gauge shells, and as for the difference in price for shells, heck, the shells are by far the cheapest part of any hunting trip!!! So buy the best rounds, shoot the largest amount of shot you can handle safely and well..........and though this is just my opinion, the 10 gauge doesn't shoot farther than a 12, it improves the odds because of more shot...........


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## droppinsnows

Yes you can drop geese at 90 to 100 yards with a 10 gauge. To answer the 12 gauge question, last year I was shooting my 12 gauge with 3" Black Cloud Snow Goose loads and dropped Snows at 90 yards, now I agree, this is not something that should be habit forming, but it can be done (I have one on video at 70 yards killed cleanly). I hunt a private club and only take those shots when I am not disruptive to other hunters and the birds are just not working.This year I have purchased a Browning Gold 10 Gauge Semi-Auto which I will strictly hunt for geese.


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## BodyCount

I'm the guy with the Marlin 5510 bolt action 3.5 10 guage, this spring I was shooting some bismuth and crushed a snow. I paced it off at 450 yards with no wind.


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## Greenhead11

Now dats a SHOT! Were you doin it right or left handed? :rollin:


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## BodyCount

Righthanded, I was holding the steering wheel with my left.


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## 225quackaddict

Look everyone, smoking gun, is right! A 12 gauge 3 1/2 doesnt compare to a ten gauge! The only reason it went almost obsolete is cause there was a 12500 psi limit on a ten and a 14500 psi on a 12 3 1/2. Mostly because ALL TENS were old when they set this standard. Therefore they won't allow it cause the older tens can't handle it and are worried of manufactures being responsible for others lack of knowledge. Now the new tens are very well capable of doing 14500 psi with ease and in parts of Europe they're shooting 20000 psi and then some. Now that, I've never heard a twelve gauge coming close too! .If you pack your own shells( with extreme care) more powder more bbs better pattern efficiency and way further range. Stick to the topic- a twelve gauge holds no weight to a ten gauge. PROVEN FACT! SAAMI sets limits here but believe it or not we pack higher rated shells for other countries right here in the USA. Your just not allowed to use them. Too add to the other talk, I've shot ducks at at least 70 yards with a 12 3 1/2. I guarantee you football field shots are possible with a ten! Let us Cajuns learn ya something- watch the duck commander( Phil robertson and family) out of Monroe Louisiana and you will see true long range shots that look impossible. If you can't shoot it doesn't matter. Takes a pro to make them shots- stop your whining and man up!!! If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch !!!! CHEERS!


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## dsm16428

Wow!! Did you ever have to do some diggin to find this thread! :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

For what it's worth I posted this on a different site a while back...

Found this on another site. Did some math to verify the findings, but what I did not see was ANY mention what so ever was what the patterns would look like at those EXTENDED RANGES. Sure, the pellet may have the energy to kill a bird at those distances but, what does the pattern look like? Hevi Shot and steel shot certainly does hold its patterns better than lead out to distances past 40 yards but they still open up exponentially for every yard farther. At 80 yards, the pattern for 1 1/2 ounces of #2 hevi shot is going to be HUGE. I pattern for turkey with all types of shot in purpose built turkey guns capable of incredible patterns at 40+ yards. You just don't have the pattern density to RELIABLY kill geese at extreme distances...not unless you have patterned it to shoot like a TURKEY LOAD and even then the pattern is going to again be HUGE. There isn't one ethical turkey hunter or waterfowler for that matter that would advocate shooting a bird that far away...with our without TSS.

For all you waterfowlers out there, who shoot quite a few birds each season, here's a little something I calc'd up for ya!

Effective maximum Yardages for killing waterfowl
--------1300 fps-----1550 fps--1700 fps---1300 fps 
----------Steel--------Steel--------Steel----- Tungsten Iron 
4----------44-----------50-----------53----------74 
3----------47+----------54+---------56----------79 
2----------51-----------58-----------60----------85 
1----------54-----------62-----------65----------90 
B----------57-----------65+---------69----------96 
BB--------60------------69-----------73----------100 
BBB-------63+----------72+----------77-----------N/A

numbers don't lie

lead shot has a density of 11 grams per cubic centimeter
steel shot has a density of 7.7 grams per cubic centimeter
Hevi-Shot, Remington Wingmaster HD, Federal HD, and Winchester Xtended Range HD are all tungsten alloys that have a density of 12 grams per cubic centimeter.


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## Bigredman

.and 3 1/2 dont compare to a 10 gauge...not even close...10 gauge greater velocity,better pattern and more pellets 8)[/quote]

Actually most of the 12ga shells have the same velocity and payload inside them. Do some reaserch before you spout off.

I refuse to carry 2 guns in to hunt. Most of the time we shoot ducks at the same time as,geese and im not going to blow up a duck with a 10ga. Just my opinion.


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## jumper

Which gauge can handle the largest payload with the most velocity, answer this question. Then go out and do some chinin and snapin.


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## Jig Master

Remington has discontinued production of the SP10 for 2012.


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## duckp

For those worried over this thread consider:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011 ... rom-1870s/


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