# BEST GOOSE DOG



## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

I did alot of himin and hawin trying to figure my next dog to use soley for goose hunting. After countless hours I decided, and purchased, my first Chesapeake Bay Retreiver!! What dog do you guys place on top of the list? 
I'm sure this will stir a great debate,
cut'em :beer:


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

A lab! Chocolate to be exact. :wink:


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## Zekeland (Oct 6, 2005)

Chessie would make a good choice. Have not hunted with one but my training partner swears by them. Be ready to train, train,train...a little more work for the green trainer though, or a 1st time chessie owner.

First choice....
My one and only gun dog is a lab...chocolate.


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## faithsdave (Jan 8, 2004)

Chessie all the way :beer: welcome to the club.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

A Lab... I agree with DBLKLUK a choc lab, but I have a new yellow male that may may give my female choc a run for her money.

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[siteimg]2637[/siteimg]


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## bullocklabradors (Oct 18, 2004)

Swan, Goose or Duck the original Black will Get R Done!

Take Care,

Travis R. Bullock


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

BEST GOOSE DOG

Love the one you're with.

I've had at least one of each of the BIG 3.

Started out with 2 chessies. They were incredible. Back in the day we used to shoot a lot of snows. The chessie we had was awesome. When we wounded one that landed out a ways, we'd send him, the bird would start to fly away and that chessie would kick on the afterburners and jump 4-5 feet in the air, knock the damn goose down and snap it up so fast I think the goose died of shock, it was the damndest thing. It was very cool.

The second chessie we had was a female. She was great. When she was 11 years old she got an infected uterus and had emergency surgery, almost died. Two weeks later I took her out and she retrieved canadas like nobody's business, including a 13.5 lb hog. That's tough.

The next one was a golden. His brother made AFC. This guy is a great dog, has an incredible nose. When a bird falls into that thick crap, which I call 'mankiller', I just send him in and he roots around a little and never lets me down, he gets the bird. I must admit though, he's a little bit of a weenie when it comes to greaters.

My current dog is a black lab. His mom is an AFC, 3x national qualifier, and his dad is an AFC and a national finalist. If I knew diddly about training dogs, this guy would be more than great. He is so strong. He picks up 12 lb canadas like they're tooth-picks. He is so athletic. He is very nice to have around the house to boot. After having this dude, I can definitely see why labs are the most popular dog in America.

So, I purposely had one of each of the big three retriever breeds so that I could answer questions like this. Its been fun. I must say that it depends more on the individual dog than the breed.

My recommendation is to forget the next door neighbor's litter and get a dog from the best field trial breeding you can afford. The idea that field trial dogs can't hunt is just nuts. They are definitely the best. They can hunt, no doubt about it. They know their p's and q's.
Like I said:

Love the one you're with.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

Travis,
I don't want to sound dumb but are the white chested birds in your post male spoonies????????? If so very pretty birds


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

Careful tb, Field trial dogs can be a handful to the beginning dog trainer/owner. They are not for everyone.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Labrador Retrievers, period!! :wink:


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## usmarine0352 (Nov 26, 2005)

*LABRADOR RETRIEVER - NO DOUBT*

Without a doubt, the lab is the best *"ALL AROUND"* dog there is.

There's a reason that it's the most popular dog around. I've had 3.

Chessie's can be HARD, HARD, HARD, to train. My friend has 2. There a lot of work. But good dogs.

A chessie is a great dog though, good luck.

:sniper:


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## honker (Feb 13, 2005)

im with dblkluk and BROWN DOG Chocolates all they way thats all ill ever have


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

All you need to remember about buying a lab is your ABC's.
Anything But Chocolate!

Hydro870 - who believes chocolate is a novelty, yellow is a luxury, and black is a necessity.


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

> _*"Careful tb, Field trial dogs can be a handful to the beginning dog trainer/owner. They are not for everyone."*_


dblkluk, have you ever owned a lab who's mother and father were both Field Champs like tb? I seriously doubt it. Don't be so fast to spew miss information.

I will just about guarantee your statement is the result of some backyard breeder or British Lab breeder sales pitch. When trying to sell an inferior product, a common sales pitch is to cut down the leader using miss information. Your comment is right on par with what these types of breeders want you to believe. Contrary to what second hand informers will tell you, take it from a first hander, trial dogs are NOT a "handful" and they are NOT hard to train. Just the opposite is true; they are the easiest to train. I am speaking of retrievers, I know nothing about pointers.

You can not make a statement about every dog so I will speak in generalities. In general, American Field Trial retrievers are the most well round, even tempered, easy to train, intelligent, retrievers on the planet. They have to be in order to win. Dogs that are hard to train, are stubborn, and hyper don't win anymore. Dogs like this are washed out of breeding programs - and sold as gun dogs. Maybe you have seen a field trial washout and came to your conclusion this way? In that case, just know that the dog did not cut the mustered and was removed from the gene pool. How many backyard breeders hold their selection to this standard? Remember, every breeding program produces it's percentage of duds. So ask yourself, who cares the most about the breed, and the least about the $$$, and is making the right choices.

Now days, field trial (FT) competitors are looking for sensitive dogs that require little correction, and don't need much force. This is because a FT dog has to be so intelligent to be able to win. It seems that sensitivity and trainability go hand and hand with intelligence.

30 years ago, when the e-collar came out, FT dogs that were selected for were totally different. For the most part, the toughest - higher test dogs won. This was because trainers did not know anything about the collar and were burning the dogs up. Thus the sensitive ones were never given a chance. Well today things are totally opposite. Trainers understand the collar and are using low pressure methods - they have been since the late 80's. What's the result you ask? The sensitive, intelligent, easy to train labs have been kicking but for the last 15 years. A dog needs to be extremely intelligent to win a modern day field trial.

There is no stronger retriever in the water than a field trial dog. Have you ever watched one of these athletes mark a Quad over water that requires 300 yard swims? By the time they need to pick up the fourth duck, 25 minutes have passed and they still remember that duck is out there 300 plus yards away. Unreal! Now that's what I call memory - a direct relationship to intelligence - a direct relationship to trainability.

So what is a field trial breeding? In my opinion, a field trial breeding is one where the Sire is an FC or AFC or both and the ***** is an FC or AFC or at least Qualified All Age (QAA). There are many litters sold by backyard breeders that have titled dogs two or three or four generations back. This does not cut it. Remember, your pup gets 50% of its genes from the parents and 25% from the grandparents. The remaining 25% comes from great-grandparents and back. So with understanding that 50% of the genes come from the parents, you better ask hunter Joe (who will tell you that his female is the greatest hunting dog that ever lived -ever notice they all do) if he can back his ***** up with a title! The title proves to me that she can mark, that she is intelligent, that she is easy to train, and that she is strong in the water.

Hydro870 - who types this as his field trial dogs lie sleeping under his desk.

P.S. Since the beginning of AKC Retriever Field Trials (1941) only 1 chocolate and 2 yellows have won the National Retriever Championship. They are:

2004 FC-AFC Dewey's Drake of Moon River (Yellow)
1996 FC Storm's Riptide Star (Chocolate)
1987 FC-AFC-CFC-CAFC Yankee Independence (Yellow)


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## usmarine0352 (Nov 26, 2005)

*Choclate Labs???*

Is there something different between regular labs and Choclate Labs???

:sniper:


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## Quackkills9 (Oct 25, 2004)

> Choclate Labs???
> 
> Is there something different between regular labs and Choclate Labs???


the color? :beer:


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

> Is there something different between regular labs and Choclate Labs???


Only the Color.

Actually, the reason black dogs are so much "better" (poor choice of words I know) is not because of their color. Let me try to explain. Black is the dominant gene. Yellow and Chocolate are recessive and double recessive. All this means is statistically more pups born will be black versus any other color. However, two yellows will always give yellows (watch out for people who do this - more to come). When labs were first developed, yellows and chocolates were culled (killed at birth for their inferior color in the eyes of the breeders).

Because most labs are black, the opportunity to select for superior field dogs in breeding programs was most realized with black dogs. Just a simple numbers game; there were more black dogs to choose from than other colors. True breeders breed for ability, not color. If you just breed for ability, most of the dogs you breed will end up being black, because statistically most labs are black, it's a dominant gene. The result has been, that over time, a large pool of Labradors with proven field ability are black.

With that said, if two blacks produce a litter of all three colors, all the pups of different colors will have the same performance potential. This is why people who really understand Labradors say they would only purchase a yellow or chocolate pup if it were produced by 2 blacks.

So if I were to recommend something, stay away from breeders who choose color as their first choice in selecting a Sire. Ability should be the first choice. I would recommend the same for buyers. If you're looking for a pup and run across an all-yellow pedigree going back 2 or more generations, you know what they are up to.

Hydro 870 - who owns both a black and yellow.


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## bullocklabradors (Oct 18, 2004)

BROWNDOG,

Yest those are spooner drakes!

Take Care,

Travis R. Bullock


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

hydro870 said:


> dblkluk, have you ever owned a lab who's mother and father were both Field Champs like tb? I seriously doubt it. Don't be so fast to spew miss information.


I'm trying to see the mis-information in his post. If I'm reading his post correctly he is advising to do the proper homework. Some, not all, FT breeders go for the hi-powered dogs that have been brought under control with force. Some, not all, FTrialers train there dogs to compete, period. The dog couldn't hunt its way out of a 10 ft. square box to save it's soul.



hydro870 said:


> I will just about guarantee your statement is the result of some backyard breeder or British Lab breeder sales pitch. When trying to sell an inferior product, a common sales pitch is to cut down the leader using miss information. Your comment is right on par with what these types of breeders want you to believe. Contrary to what second hand informers will tell you, take it from a first hander, trial dogs are NOT a "handful" and they are NOT hard to train. Just the opposite is true; they are the easiest to train.


Are you saying if it hasn't come from a FT dog it isn't worth a crap?? If the breeder has had the proper health clearances and is breeding to better the gene-pool you can wipe your arse with the FT ribbon as far as I'm concerned.



hydro870 said:


> Now days, field trial (FT) competitors are looking for sensitive dogs that require little correction, and don't need much force. This is because a FT dog has to be so intelligent to be able to win. It seems that sensitivity and trainability go hand and hand with intelligence.


What? Show me a FT ribbon winner that hasn't been FF and or CC. Don't get me wrong, they most assuredly have their place in training but it is used in EVERY FT dog that is in the money bracket. Show us different.



hydro870 said:


> There is no stronger retriever in the water than a field trial dog. Have you ever watched one of these athletes mark a Quad over water that requires 300 yard swims? By the time they need to pick up the fourth duck, 25 minutes have passed and they still remember that duck is out there 300 plus yards away. Unreal! Now that's what I call memory - a direct relationship to intelligence - a direct relationship to trainability.


I've never seen a dog fall out of the highly smart, super memory, undisputed trainabilty tree before. These dogs are not just born, they are made from a rigorous training program. As far as a FT dog being superior in the water is a flat out foolish statement, any well trained retriever will master the water and make it look easy.



hydro870 said:


> So with understanding that 50% of the genes come from the parents, you better ask hunter Joe (who will tell you that his female is the greatest hunting dog that ever lived -ever notice they all do) if he can back his b#tch up with a title!


No, but with 200+ birds to hand or a piece of cloth that says qualified I'd much rather choose the pudding than the toilet paper.

Pudding or toilet paper??


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

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CHESSIES ROCK!!!!! Duke was about 9 months in this pic. He is a relentless retriever and very strong. I also disagree with the bad rap that these dogs get. Duke was fairly easy to train and has a great temperment. His best friends are my 6 and 4 year old sons and he tolerates a lot. Great dog and I will never own anything but chessies from now on. Good luck and good hunting. :beer:


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

hydro870,

Fellow listeners, I have no idea who hydro870 is, but as far as I can tell, from his posts, this dude knows his doggies, no doubt about it. I agree 100% with his attitude regarding dogs. The dogs with the high-test pedigrees are a little bit of work in that they like to get out and about every chance they get, i.e. "let me have some exercise", but they do want to please you and basically just need to be kept under close control-- at all times. But, every dog should be anyway. So, why not make it a studdly one?


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

tb, Sounds like you echoed my statements in your last post. 
I'm not trying to start an argument. Simply stating my (and others) experience with some high power field trial labs. And by the way, I have spent a fair share of time around field trial dogs. 
I simply think the best dog out there is the one that performs best for you.


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## usmarine0352 (Nov 26, 2005)

*Hydro 870 - Thanks for you input.*

:sniper:


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

dblklk,

I agree with what you are saying. All dog lovers love all dogs. That's why I started: Love the one you're with.


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

I do not want to make anybody feel like somehow there is such a thing as an inferior dog. I like dblkluks comment: "the best dog out there is the one that performs best for you". Who cares about best? What is best anyway? I am just trying to spread the "good word" about trial dogs, so us waterfowl hunters can benefit from the efforts of FT breeders. For the record, I am not a breeder, nor do I advertise a stud dog. But there are breeders who have provided us waterfowl hunters with a great tool.

Thank God for the American Field Trialer! Lucky for us we have a large pool of retriever pedigrees (pick your breed) with excellent field ability. Other breeds do not have this luxury. Look at what the bench folks did to the Standard Poodle, a fine hunting breed at one time, today there are very few working Poodles left. Why, because no one preserved their working ability. Well, the field trialer has done this for us, we hunters (and they are hunters too) owe them a big thank you! What fine breeds the Labrador, Chessie, and Golden are.

4Curlredleg, your comments are so far off the mark and soooo ignorant. It would take me a half day to correct you quote by quote. I can think of a better way to spend a half day. How about you come out duck or goose hunting with me next fall, and I'll show you what field trial dogs are all about. Remember that one mallard you gut shot and it flew almost a quarter mile before falling dead last fall. You remember, it was the one you could hardly see when it fell. Well, you don't have to get out of your blind to retrieve it when it happens again in the fall of 2006. Ol' Custer will bring it back for ya. He likes a chocolate cheering section.

Hydro870 - who has nothing against chocolates.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Hydro, I'll accept your concession as well as your invitation. 

I never turn down a chance to gain a friend and have fun wackin' ducks!! :wink:


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Cheers to you 4curl :beer:

By the way, that is a really fine picture of your partner with those drakes!

I have never posted on the goose forum before, but there is a lot of great stuff here. I may throw you guys a few questions over the winter/summer about goose hunting techniques.

Hydro870


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Hey, while we are on the topic of retrievers and geese, how do you guys hunt with your dogs in the goose field? I am usually in my ground blind with my dog lying on my left side, slightly behind me. Although, I will admit it would be safer if he was on my right side since I am right handed. Right handed shooters can swing further to the left than to the right. Sometimes I use a hide-a-pooch depending on the type of field and color of lab I have with me.

Anyway, if I may be so bold to state (and confess) every good dog will try to break once in a while (by good dog I mean the ones that really love to be out there hunting). As you all know, breaking can be irritating to fellow hunters who have their dog with, prevent your dog from marking doubles, triples, etc, and also be quite dangerous. What I have been doing the last 2 years is going away from correcting this periodic mishap with the e-collar. Instead, I have just been pushing a "stake out" into the ground with a very short chain. It's funny; the chain hardly ever goes tight, because the dog knows it's there. Anyway, since the dog is lying right beside me, once the action is over, I simply release the snap to his collar with my left hand. It has been real easy, not an inconvenience in any way. I can see where this would work really well for teaching steadiness also (except I would put a choke chain on the end for teaching).

Anyway, there is a guy in Fargo that makes the ones that are really durable, portable, and work great for hunting and in the yard at home. I bought the DS (double swivel) trainer. His website is http://stakeoutinc.com/order.html

Hydro870


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## Acemallard (Sep 30, 2003)

I would have to say Hydro knows his sh*t about dogs. Old Custer is a top notch dog. But I still don't agree on your theroy of the chocolate is a novelty, yellow is a luxury, and black is a necessity. To me a lab is a lab. Hows that other dog of yours doing? I forget her name.

HARDCORE WATERFOWLER


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## kjdouble (Sep 14, 2005)

I currently hunt over a yellow but have had all three colors, can't say enough about my last 2 labs, both females 1 black that I had for 14.5 years and now a yellow that I've had for 5. Heart , Loyalty and Desire are 3 words that sums up my labs when it comes to hunting, be it geese, ducks, swans, or pheasants.
Good luck with your choice
KJ


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## Springer (Dec 21, 2004)

> Anyway, there is a guy in Fargo that makes the ones that are really durable, portable, and work great for hunting and in the yard at home. I bought the DS (double swivel) trainer. His website is http://stakeoutinc.com/order.html


Hydro do you know what these are made out of? Steel, Stainless, are they just painted? Kevin


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

I love dog debates. I own a golden and a chessie. I am now a chessie guy. He has his intermediate NAHRA title. Not for sure if we will get the MHR as my son is due on Feb 10th and I have a feeling that may cut into training time.

Anyway chessies are not for everyone though.

I disagree that they are hard to train. They are different though. People say you need to use a 2 by 4. That is way way off base. Most labs take more force than chessies. Chessies will shut down if you use too much, whereas labs will generally work through it. They mature slower than labs also, especially the males.

That being said I would recommend spending time around dogs and find ones that you like.

If you can find a hunt test that would be ideal. Most people are just hunters and are glad to talk dogs.

As far as the field trial debate, no blanket statement fits every dog. I've seen field trial breedings that would run through a fence to get a bird but would drive you nuts in a blind. There are also very calm FT dogs. Need to look at the individual, not the title. There are great dogs out there that will never run a test, and a pup out them would be great. It is just harder to find because you have to see the dog in action rather than the set value of title with its name.

Here is a great website. It is for a chessie breeder in Idaho. He writes articles for Retriever Journal. It has articles explaining how to read a pedigree, explaining the health clearances, and one on the differences between labs and chessies.

http://www.northerflight.com

My next dog will be a chessie out of FT stock.

Good luck,

Brian


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## BruceCarp (Jan 26, 2006)

goose dogs have to have bigger hearts and want it more. It is a blue collar type dog, that is a worker. style and finese is great but i want results and results every time. Will swim a 300 yard river to retrieve a cripple goose on the other side and swim back across the river to you, knowing he/she is just doing their job! That is something to look for in any dog! They have to want it more than just retrieving. quitting is an option that they find hard to accept. My great dogs have both been labs. have been fortunate, seen the opposite in many others. :beer:


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Good topic most of the opinions are correct even though they may differ. hydro is correct in his explaination of Labs color,AKC trials. breeding. If I didn't buy dogs that had their genes from AKC field trial stock I wouldn't know where to look. I agree that you should buy the best papered dog that you can afford. But here is where I will dissagree. Hydro what does a pup from 2 titled parents cost these days? I will guess 800.00 
How many litters will a person find around here with titled parents? Might have a very long drive or fly the dog in. What I am getting at is the fact that the dogs that you are suggesting usually are pretty expensive . I have dogs from titled parents and those from 1 or 2 generations out(including the pup as a generation). If these dogs have the proper health certificates ,the parents look good and they are close to active field trial stock I will buy them. They make great gun dogs.With that said I dont breed them they are neutered.
Interesting quotes I have heard from old time trialers
" Its easier to take something out of a dog than it is it put it in"
"Every time you discipline a dog you take a little out of him"


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

> Hydro do you know what these are made out of? Steel, Stainless, are they just painted? Kevin


They are made of steel and are powder coated.



> As far as the field trial debate, no blanket statement fits every dog. I've seen field trial breedings that would run through a fence to get a bird but would drive you nuts in a blind. There are also very calm FT dogs. Need to look at the individual, not the title. There are great dogs out there that will never run a test, and a pup out them would be great. It is just harder to find because you have to see the dog in action rather than the set value of title with its name.


I think this is a great statement - need to look at the individual - well said. I would like at the individuals with titles and compare their strengths and weaknesses.



> Hydro what does a pup from 2 titled parents cost these days? I will guess 800.00 How many litters will a person find around here with titled parents? Might have a very long drive or fly the dog in. What I am getting at is the fact that the dogs that you are suggesting usually are pretty expensive . I have dogs from titled parents and those from 1 or 2 generations out(including the pup as a generation). If these dogs have the proper health certificates ,the parents look good and they are close to active field trial stock I will buy them. They make great gun dogs.With that said I dont breed them they are neutered.


Your right about the cost. And your right about the fact that many a great gun dog has been produced by an untitled *****. I would just argue this: how long does a new 4-wheeler last? 10 years maybe? Well, so does a dog. A 4-wheeler, costs about $5,000 to $6,000.

These price ranges are from ads I have seen the last few years:
FC/AFC Sire / QAA ***** = $800 to $1,500 puppy.
FC/AFC Sire / Master Hunter ***** = $600 to $1,200 puppy.

You can get a pup with lots of potential for around a thousand bucks, about 1/5 the price of a 4-wheeler, and about 5 times the enjoyment. This dog will be a family member, and give you his heart. I'm sorry, but you get what you pay for with everything, including dogs.



> " Its easier to take something out of a dog than it is it put it in"


I think this is very true.



> "Every time you discipline a dog you take a little out of him"


I would disagree with this strongly -what berry picker said this? Most well rounded labs bounce back from force programs very quickly, and are more confident - capable retrievers as a result. By force I mean force fetch and force to a pile. As far as discipline is concerned, does the dog understand why he is being disciplined? You can be extremely hard on a dog for committing such offenses as not complying with obedience commands. Things they know. Not sitting when commanded "sit". Not coming when being commanded "here". Not going when sent by name or "back". If dogs were Catholic, these would be mortal sins. Once a dog knows his obedience commands I would live by this quote:

"Speak softly and carry a big stick".

Hydro870 - who lives in a world of gray shades, but who's dogs live in a world of black and white.


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

Crap.

Messed up that link.

www.northernflight.com


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

You can check out the classifieds at this address:

http://working-retriever.com/

But, I think you are better off talking to someone you know that's in the field trial game, if possible.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Over the past couple years I have had a chance to hunt over alot of great dogs. And two dogs come to mind is a Choclate lab named Cutter, and a Chessie named Mud. Both were unbelievable in the field.


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## honkbuster3 (Jan 11, 2006)

Chesapeake Bays are Number 1 in my book


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## deadringer (Feb 11, 2006)

This was a great post and thanks for all the pictures I really learned something about retreivers.


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