# Over Kill?



## hunting101 (Jun 1, 2004)

Many people say that some guns are a little too big and are over killing animals. I dont understand how something can be overkilled. I think that if the animal is dead than it cant get any more dead. Tell me what you think.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

have you ever hunted for the pelt, or meat, or even hunted at all? it is very important to use the smallest, or near to the smallest caliber that will take the animal successfully so that meat and pelts are not wasted. if you were hunting deer for meat a .50 bmg would not be acceptable. this does not apply when hunting varmints, as the pelt is seldom saved and the meat is usually not preferable.

Tiger


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Hunting101

I guess it is a matter of how you look at it. With fox hunting there are two schools of though, shoot a full metal so the bullet doesn't blow big holes in the hide, or shoot highly frangible so the bullet doesn't exit the animal. I have tried both and am still undecided which is best. Now with coyote that is a different ball game. They have a much stronger hide and don't damage as easily. With that in mind I will go with a soft point every time. I have shot coyote at 25 yards with full metal 243 Winchester and had them run a half mile. For deer I shoot a 300 Winchester magnum. Many people believe that it will blow a deer to pieces, but with a premium bullet like the Swift Scirocco it does less damage than a standard load in my Winchester 270. Now, 90% of hunters will tell you a 416 Remington Magnum or a 458 Winchester Magnum is overkill. I agree, but I think it is overkill because they have far more energy than is required, not because they will blow a deer to pieces. Truth be told they will perhaps do less damage than a 30-06. Now I have people excited. Here is my theory. The 416 and 458 have very heavy jackets, they are for dangerous game. A deer doesn't have the body mass to mushroom the 416 and 458 bullets to full potential. Although these rifles are very potent they will expend little energy in the deer, and most of it on the hillside beyond. An acquaintance of mine shot a deer with a 505 Gibbs. The bullet was a soft point and the range was 75 yards. The hit was through the lungs, still the deer ran 300 yardsPerhaps the most destructive rounds for deer are bullets in the 130 to 150 gr range at high velocity. I guess my point is biggest is not always best, and overkill is in the eye of the beholder.


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## hunting101 (Jun 1, 2004)

Militant_Tiger said:


> have you ever hunted for the pelt, or meat, or even hunted at all? it is very important to use the smallest, or near to the smallest caliber that will take the animal successfully so that meat and pelts are not wasted. if you were hunting deer for meat a .50 bmg would not be acceptable. this does not apply when hunting varmints, as the pelt is seldom saved and the meat is usually not preferable.
> 
> Tiger


 Actually Militant tiger, i have hunted and i hunt just about every peice of free time that i get. That is totally wrong that using a 50bmg to shoot deer would not be exeptable. It also depends how far away you want to shoot them. what if you want to shoot them a mile away? That you would also have to consider. Also, i shoot coyote for the pelt all the time. around here you can get up to $50 for them. Also, you say that you should use the smallest gun that you can to shoot the animal. what if you want a gun that you can shoot everything with. well obviously a .223 would not be a very good fun for moose. so maybe you could use a 7 mag? IF you want you can do me a big favor and not respond to anything that i say because obviously we dont agree on some things and i dont really want to waste my time arguing with you. Thanks


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

see the 7 mm mag is perfectly suited to elk though, its just big enough to get the job done. saying something like there is no such thing as overkill and then *****ing me out for answering you is not a way to gain respect here.


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## hunting101 (Jun 1, 2004)

Your probably right i shouldnt have said that **** to you just for trying to help, I apologize.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Plainsmans information was very accurate in many respects. There is one more issue in "overkill" I would like to bring up. He said that most of the energy is wasted on the hillside behind the animal. I submit that a great deal is wasted on the hunter's shoulder as well. I guess I could ask just how much recoil do you enjoy shooting. If you're shooting something BIG and DANGEROUS, I would be glad to submit to a great deal of recoil. On the other hand, if the game is not big and dangerous, then you are making tradeoffs in range/recoil/energy, etc. If you enjoy shooting a 7mm mag, you can find the load and bullet to get the results you want. If you want a neat little hole, you can use FMJ or even big game bullets. Or you can find varmint bullets. That's half the fun, is the variety of choices.


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