# I'm needing help on a scope



## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

Alright guys. I want to put a scope on my 22-250 to punch holes out to 500 yards max. I would like to be able to adjust the MOA with out having to unscrew caps, but it's not that big of a deal. I'm looking to spend about $350 max. Quality is important to me which will be a little hard on that budget.
Your input is much appreciated.


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## .223-beni (Dec 2, 2007)

Check out Sightrons SII 4x16. It has target knobs. 1/8 moa adjustment. And is a great scope for about 350 if you look around.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Good post you are in need of a new one! Hope you get some quality answers. :thumb:


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## nukemonster (Feb 8, 2010)

papapete,
Go to Kenton Industries website check out their TTC knob, if your optics are fine and you know your load they custom build the knob for $140. It works on my AR and I need to shoot out to 500m.!
Check it out!


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## jonnyr7 (Jan 5, 2010)

i'm in the same boat as you papapete, i am also looking for a scope. i was looking at an fx-3 by leoupold, looks pretty nice but i have heard mixed reviews


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## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

Does anybody have an opinion on the Nikon Coyote special or the Nikon m-223 3-12x42 sf?


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## owwwwww (Jan 8, 2008)

Not sure if they have the BDC in those models, but if you have a choice on horizontal lines or the circles. Go with the lines. A long shot puts the whole coyote in the circle.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

papapete said:


> Does anybody have an opinion on the Nikon Coyote special or the Nikon m-223 3-12x42 sf?


What brand is the scope that has been giving you so much trouble? And what brand was the rangefinder that gave you so much trouble before you bought your new one?


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## owwwwww (Jan 8, 2008)

Are you trying to get him to say Nikon Fallguy....Sounds like you are.. I hope he says Bushnell or Tasco. Whatever you buy, make sure its waterproof, fogproof, and starts with a 3x. A lifetime warranty would be nice too. Those options probably dont come together until $600 though.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

owwwwww said:


> Are you trying to get him to say Nikon Fallguy....Sounds like you are..


I'm going by memory of what he already has. I need him to answer this question himself. All I can say is that if I had back luck with TWO products from the same company, I would switch brands.


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## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

I got what i paid for with the range finder. I don't have an excuse for the scope, other than it's a $150 scope and over 5 years old. Nikon typically has good products. I was thinking if i spent more i could expect more.


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## 308 (Jul 10, 2007)

i've only heard good things about the nikon coyote special.


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## owwwwww (Jan 8, 2008)

Yes the coyote special looks good for the $. It looks like they changed the circle size for the BDC too. Theres just soo many choices out there it drives you crazy thinking about them :computer:


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Here's some info on Nikon.

http://www.coyotehunter.net/forums/view ... f=2&t=1286

I'd suggest considering a Burris Fullfield with a mil dot or ballistic plex.Try Opticsplanet.net and check their sales in the $300-$400 category.Or,check that category there for any scopes.Neat site.
Good luck.


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## SilentKnight (Nov 29, 2007)

I have a sightron on every single one of my rifles. I cant say enough about their quality for the cost of the scope. I would also suggest a 4x16 SII with the 1/8" MOA adjustments for coyote hunting.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

papapete said:


> I got what i paid for with the range finder. I don't have an excuse for the scope, other than it's a $150 scope and over 5 years old. Nikon typically has good products. I was thinking if i spent more i could expect more.


Nikons cheaper rangefinders are good for bow hunting, that's about it. I've now learned my lesson. You get what you pay for.

Nikon Monarchs are great scopes. They may be a little more than you want to spend, but they are nice for the money. They come with low profile turrets as well, or you can purchase higher target style turrets. If you don't want to mess with caps, just leave them off.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i have owned a few scopes ranging from tascos to the nxs nightforce. i spend a great deal of time looking through the scope. i will be getting another nxs when money lets me. it's that good. i have a nikon monarch that is pretty darn good though. the older burris signatures were real good for the money too. find a used one if you can, that should fit your budget. i had one of the newer signatures too, a good scope, but not quite as good as the older ones. the tascos ranged from decent to lousy. keep in mind that an external turret scope in $350 range may not be as precise as advertised, especially in real cold weather. i have my preferences, but the leupold and burris varmint reticles do match up real well with the 17 fireball and 22-250's. just be sure to check them at the indicated ranges to see where the bullet really is hitting down range. these would be a good alternative to a tactical scope. i prefer the tactical scope, but if you want absolute precision tracking in all weather and exposed turrets that don't get bumped out of adjustment, it comes at considerable expense.


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

papapete said:


> Does anybody have an opinion on the Nikon Coyote special or the Nikon m-223 3-12x42 sf?


Get the nikon coyote special and tell me how you like to center a coyote in a circle if you want to shoot at 500 yards even with a BDC knob.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

lyonch said:


> papapete said:
> 
> 
> > Does anybody have an opinion on the Nikon Coyote special or the Nikon m-223 3-12x42 sf?
> ...


I agree. I've never shot through one but I would think it would be a pain in the butt to shoot at a coyote with a circle for a reticle, or anything for that matter, especially targets. How does one stay consistent?

I'm telling ya, the Monarch wth mils is a good one to consider. It has low profile turrets for clicking (which you said you want), has mils for ranging and/or holdover points (which I assume you want the Coyote Special for), and has a nice crosshair for precise target shooting (which you won't get with the Coyte Special)...... You got options with the Monarch mil dot. On top of all that, the glass is very good for the money.


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

You could put a bb-gun scope on a gun and have some the best shooters still make pretty good groups at 500 yards and you can have someone who never shot at paper in there life and hand them a fully custom rifle with all the bells and wistles and i bet they shoot like crap. Its all in the operator, not the glass. Get something that you like and fits what you are doing. It's all personal preference when it comes to picking out a scope. Just make sure that if you get with a bdc knob, that it tracks both going out and back and test it out to the max range. I myself will be spending some money on a BDC knob for my leupold scope, but for the time being, i have the LR reticle and am on at 200, then next hash down, 322, then next hash down, i am on at 416, then tip of the duplex is roughly 500 yards. The up and down is simple, its the wind that will nail a guy every time. You also need to practice at these distances from your shooting postion too not just a bench. So in the end, its the practice that makes the 500 yard shot, not the glass.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

nicely said lyonch


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## owwwwww (Jan 8, 2008)

Does the zero change on some scopes when you zoom in or out?


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

yes. i recall an avid shooter testing some scopes at the range several years ago. not all scopes hold perfect through the magnification range. to be safe, do all of your target work at the high end, then make sure you use that setting on a 400-500 yard shot. i agree with lyonch that practice and experience are what make a 500 yard shot pan out, but the better you see and the more reliable/ repeatable your equipment is, the better off you will be. what ever you choose, try checking for impact shift at different power settings. a scope bends light. as parts move inside, the bending of that light changes. it take very little imperfection to throw things off. it is amazing that we can build such precision instruments at all.


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

when changing powers of the scope and point of impact changes with it, it is called a parralax (sp) problem. I had a scope that had this really bad, (nikon monarch) and i switched it out with leupold and am glad i did. Here is another hint for you, when looking through glass make sure you have the guy at the store grab a high end swarovski for you and compare the other scopes you are looking with that one. Here's a little reasoning behind it. When my dad was looking for a new scope, we went to scheels to look, he wanted a leupold and nothing else. I said ok well lets go look. We grabbed a top end swarovski and then the leupold that he wanted. We compared the scopes, then i told the guy to grab all of leupold scopes he had in that model and power and set them out here. So after comparing every other scope (exact same model and powers) there was a specific scope in that group that had almost that exact clarity of glass that swarovski had. All of the others in the pile were obviously a step below, but i could barely tell between the swaro and my dad's new leupy. Every scope has its own specific glass to it. When the manufacture of swaro goes through glass he might disregard it because of some extreme minor techincalitiy that does meet his standards, but is extremely close. Well the next brand below, this glass falls within there spectrum and is considered at the very high end of it. this just doesn't only happen to leupold and swarovski, but all the scope manufactures. A simple way to test for parralax (sp), you can do this right in the store, is leave the scope perfectly still, then move your head around while maintaing the cross hairs on the object and see if the cross hairs move. Both up and down and side to side on full power. Every scope has some, but you can really notice a difference from scope to scope the amount it moves.


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

All scopes do have paralax, and the scopes with either an adjustable objective (paralax ring), or with the now common paralax turret adjustment are easily adjusted depending on the range you are shooting at the time. This adjustment is meant to remove the "bouncing" of the reticle upon moving your head from side to side, as well as focusing the reticle. Again, it is dependent on the range you are shooting. If you are shooting at a target at 200 yds and your paralax is set at 50 yds, things will most likely be a bit bouncy and blurry.

KD


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## owwwwww (Jan 8, 2008)

Good to know. I have always just left it set at 150 yards


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

kdog said:


> All scopes do have paralax, and the scopes with either an adjustable objective (paralax ring), or with the now common paralax turret adjustment are easily adjusted depending on the range you are shooting at the time. This adjustment is meant to remove the "bouncing" of the reticle upon moving your head from side to side, as well as focusing the reticle. Again, it is dependent on the range you are shooting. If you are shooting at a target at 200 yds and your paralax is set at 50 yds, things will most likely be a bit bouncy and blurry.
> 
> KD


Thats why all the scopes i have, do not have an adjustable bell on them. I do not want to be turning the bell on my scope everytime i take a shot. My nikon monarch had that adjustable bell and i still couldn't get rid of my paralax issue. You will notice that in the high power scopes this is a necessity, but when you stick to 12 power and less you can eleminate a lot of that issue. The paralax problem also comes form mounting your head different to the stock every time too. If you can find an anchor point like the bowhunters do, that should help prevent some of this as well.


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