# Dangerous people



## Plainsman

After working over 35 years in science I am always shocked by how fast people will get on any bandwagon without proof. We base much of our scientific work on theory, but to many people look at theory as fact. I remember the doctor being adamant about my father using Mazola corn oil after he had a heart attack. Anyone who keeps up with these things knows that after 30 years we find that hydrogenated oils are worse for you than butter. Did we learn from lessons like that? No we didn't, were ready to jump on the next train that a scientist pulls into town.

http://www.intellectualconservative.com ... r-inquiry/


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## Csquared

Plainsman, unfortunately too many people here (of all places!) will consider the name of your source an oxymoron, and will feel compelled to explain to the rest of us why they're smart enough to think so!

......but I could be wrong.

......and I hope I am!


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## hagfan72

No, C2, you are probably right on the money. :eyeroll:


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## goldhunter470

These are the TRULY dangerous people. Pure and unadulterated child abuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp

"Becky Fischer suggests that Christian children should have the same sort of willingness to fight and die for their religion as Muslim extremist do, "since we have the truth.""

That, my friends, is dangerous.


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## uglyman

Yes & no.
There are great Christian Saints, from St Paul to St Stephen & so many others, martyred for their faith & beliefs. It is noble indeed.

Ive seen Jesus Camp, it is disgusting & very apparent that we have a faith leadership problem in this nation. I think we can blame the evangelicals & the Zionists, Neo Cons & Christian Zionists alike, for most of Americas Problems.

We now have over 33,000 Competing Protestant Sects, each claiming the truth. We have been essentially divided & Conquered by the Zionists. 
Thats been the plan of the enemy & Satan for 2007 years.

Jesus was very clear about this in John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. 
He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. 
When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a Liar, and the father of it."

And in Revelations 2:9
"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, but thou art rich and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are Not, but are the Synagogue of Satan."

I actually have video of John Hagee, one of the more popular evangelical preachers, claiming Jesus is Not the Messiah, never came to be the messiah, & we should not hold the Jews responsible for his death & Crucifixion. His 16,000 members belief this nonsense. Yet scripture contradaicts this very clearly..
"CRUCIFY HIM, MAY HIS BLOOD BE UPON US & OUR CHILDREN!"


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## goldhunter470

uglyman said:


> Yes & no.
> There are great Christian Saints, from St Paul to St Stephen & so many others, martyred for their faith & beliefs. It is noble indeed.


Thinking like this causes war and death. But since anyone who believes most religions believes in an afterlife, its not such a big deal. Except to those of us who believe when you're dead, you're dead. Then dying for that belief doesn't seem so noble.


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## Plainsman

> Ive seen Jesus Camp, it is disgusting & very apparent that we have a faith leadership problem in this nation.


Isn't it somewhere in Revelations that it says beware of the false prophets. Christianity isn't the problem, it's those who twist it for power. These people are not Christians, but they want you to think they are. It looks like they did a good job. Don't let yourself be fooled so easily.



> I think we can blame the evangelicals & the Zionists, Neo Cons & Christian Zionists alike, for most of Americas Problems.


What do you consider a Zionist, and what is a Neo Con? I have only heard the term Neo Con from extremist liberals. Not middle of the road liberals, far left liberals. That's what caught my eye on some of your first posts. So are Neo Cons more or less conservative than a 1980's conservative. I have heard about ten descriptions of Neo Cons and the problem is many contradict each other. So each of you will have to define your ideas of a Neo Con.


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## swampbuck

plainsman i have used the term neo con do you think i'm an extreme liberal.

I too have seen Jesus Camp. I thought it was despicible


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## Plainsman

swampbuck said:


> plainsman i have used the term neo con do you think i'm an extreme liberal.
> 
> I too have seen Jesus Camp. I thought it was despicible


No, I don't see you as a liberal at all. So I stand corrected, all liberals and one ------ libertarian????? Conservative?????? I think constitutional conservative of the old school. Somewhat like I would consider myself as a matter of fact. So what is your idea of a Neo Con?

I haven't seen Jesus Camp, but from comments others have made I would guess they have a large stash of cool-aid.


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## DecoyDummy

swampbuck

I try hard to shy away from terms used by so called fanatics ... I do use terms like "Fundamentalist Islam" to refer to those willing to take the Koran in literal terms and become the next Usama bin Laden ... but I'll temper that if it becomes necessary to do so.

You'll do well to drop that (Neo-Con) from your lexicon and move forward more on your own personal terms

or so it seems to me


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## uglyman

Neo Con are these men..that Bush has surrounded as his staff.
They have called for war in Iraq, want Iran, Syria, & Sudan next. 
Their Hatchlings arent doing any fighting however. But safe on scholarship at Yale.
http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/index.html

The term is used often by Real conservatives Like Pat Buchanan & Reagan's former treasury Secretary & founder of Reaganomics, Paul Craig Roberts, amongst others, to describe mostly policy makers & dual citizens of Israel, or Christians that are Israel firsters.

Basically, they are Marxists at heart. Were part of the democrat party when they had power & simply switched sides. But a leopard doesnt change his spots. A Marxist is a marxist. They want us to war for Israel & preemptively, facts be damned.

"The President of the United States, on issue after issue, has reflected the thinking of neoconservatives." 
- Richard Perle ...

"Iraq is just one battle in a larger war, bringing down the regime in Iran is the central act, because Iran is the world's most dangerous terrorist country."
- Michael Ledeen

Atheism is for atheists I guess. 
No one can convince me that there is no God. 
Nothing from nothing, begets nothing. But then how could the world come to be, from nothing? 
We have a creator, we have a soul. We are not animals that have no reasoning ability, no altruisitc purpose & strive for higher learning, acceptance & knowledge. Some of the most knowledgable people in the world, all acknowledge a higher being.
And to think that when you die there be no heaven or hell is absolutely ridiculous to me,. let alone Blasphemous & heretical. To put Mass murderers in the same category as Saints & those that work for better change for others with no regard for themselves is quite sad. Im sure God differentiates between Good souls & Evil souls.


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## DecoyDummy

Uglyman ... Isn't your finger tired yet ...

Seems all you can do is point the damn thing and talk in incoherent circles and repetitions.


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## goldhunter470

Well I guess I am blasphemous and a heretic, ugly. I'm not even going to get into a pissing match with you about this. Just one last thing.... if there is a "god", why did he, (I'll assume it's a he because thinking differently might send me to hell), give you the ability to reason and not just follow faith? I guess books written when people thought the world was flat, about a questionable subject, should hold more weight than anything else. I don't get it.

Is this what the devil looks like? ------> :******: Or does he have a pitch fork too?


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## uglyman

Answer to question.... Free Will.

Well written & described in St Thomas Aquinas & St Augustine.
I receommend reading their works to open your mind & to provoke thought.


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## cwoparson

> No one can convince me that there is no God.
> Nothing from nothing, begets nothing. But then how could the world come to be, from nothing?


Who or what created God??? Did he come from nothing or is there a super God, maybe a God of Gods? Careful now, sometimes when a dog chases his tail he actually catches it.


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## uglyman

What year is it? Thats right, we mark time with HIS Crucifixon, death & resurrection. 2007 AD

Though one may deduce the existence of God and His Attributes (One, Truth, Good, Power, Knowledge) through reason, certain specifics may be known only through special revelation (Like the Trinity). In Aquinas's view, special revelation is equivalent to the revelation of God in Jesus Christ.

Aquinas felt that the existence of God is neither self-evident nor beyond proof. In the Summa Theologica, he considered in great detail 5 rational proofs for the existence of God.

"Concerning the nature of God, Aquinas felt the best approach, commonly called the via negativa, is to consider what God is Not. 
This led him to propose 5 positive statements about the divine qualities

God is simple, without composition of parts, such as body and soul, or matter and form. 
God is perfect, lacking nothing. That is, God is distinguished from other beings on account of God's complete actuality. 
God is infinite. That is, God is not finite in the ways that created beings are physically, intellectually, and emotionally limited. This infinity is to be distinguished from infinity of size and infinity of number. 
God is immutable, incapable of change on the levels of God's essence and character. 
God is 1, without diversification within God's self. The unity of God is such that God's essence is the same as God's existence. In Aquinas's words, "in itself the proposition 'God exists' is necessarily true, for in it subject and predicate are the same." 
In this approach, he is following, among others, the Jewish philosopher Maimonides.

Nature of the Trinity
Aquinas argued that God, while perfectly united, also is perfectly described by 3 interrelated persons. These three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) are constituted by their relations within the essence of God. The Father generates the Son (or the Word) by the relation of self-awareness. This eternal generation then produces an eternal Spirit "who enjoys the divine nature as the Love of God, the Love of the Father for the Word."

This Trinity exists independently from the world. It transcends the created world, but the Trinity also decided to communicate God's self and God's goodness to human beings."


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## cwoparson

:lol: exactly what I expected.


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## uglyman

Ill make it easy..

God has No need to have been created, since He exists either outside time (where cause and effect do not operate) or within multiple dimensions of time (such that there is no beginning of God's plane of time). 
Hence, God is Eternal, having never been created. 
Although it is possible that the universe itself is eternal, eliminating the need for its creation, observational evidence contradicts this hypothesis, since the universe began to exist a finite ~13.7 billion years ago. The only possible escape for the atheist is the invention of a kind of super universe, which can never be confirmed experimentally (hence it is metaphysical in nature, and not scientific).


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## uglyman

Here is a clip from Jesus Camp for those who havent seen it...





http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5Cgvgjfwy ... re=related





My channel is open to view. 
You can watch US Soldiers torturing dogs in Iraq, dropping bombs on villages & other war crimes. Good stuff. Enjoy


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## goldhunter470

uglyman said:


> Atheism is for atheists I guess.
> No one can convince me that there is no God.
> *Nothing from nothing, begets nothing*. But then how could the world come to be, from nothing?


I think you caught your tail. But it's your's and many other people's belief and I can respect that.


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## uglyman

Im known for tail chasing Goldhunter  But now Im happily married.

Its interesting to me that Atheists dont believe in Heaven or Hell. 
They dont believe in good vs evil. All one need do, is look around. Look at the good in children, hold them, & then look at mass murderers & Satanists.

Those that war on lies or Those that sacrifice children. For their organs, blood, ritual sacrifice or other sick fetishes.
OPRAH actually had a special on it. Heres a short clip.


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## goldhunter470

It's not that I don't believe in good and evil. It's plain to see that both exist. What I don't believe is there is a supreme being that is all knowing and all seeing that is the ultimate judge on whether you are a "good" person or a "bad" person. "Good" and "bad" are very subjective terms that should be avoided when trying to present an argument of facts. Those words inject feeling into the argument. You may see something as bad, where I may see he same thing as not so bad. Fundamentalists of most religions would say homosexuality is "bad" or even "evil". Well what is "evil"? Is it what you choose it to be or is there a solid, set in stone definition? Personally, I could care less if someone loves someone who is the same sex. It's not my business and it harms me in no way whatsoever. Killing in the name of a religion has gone on for centuries and is still occurring today. Some see this as "good" or "noble". I see it as "bad" and damaging. "Good" and "evil" do exist but it's all dependent upon your view. Just like your argument about zionism and the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Now keep it in your pants and leave that tail alone!!!! :lol:


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## uglyman

Youre right.
Good/Evil are subjective..I only use them as a common denominator for sake of argument with a non believer. Was a time I really had the same questions as you..or at least questioned God, Faith, Christianity after loss & death etc. Its normal I think, so I understand where you are.

As a Christian & Traditional Catholic, I believe in the Sacraments (Baptism, Confession, Communion, Penance etc) & in Sin, both venial & mortal.

Hell, awaits those that Sin, its Very simple. Purgatory is to be factored & is the limbo of them.
We are All sinners. But if we believe in God, fear him, do his works & practice Faith-our faith-our souls will live in eternity, in his grace. As a Catholic, I believe in sanctifying grace or being purged of sin by offering contrition & through the sacrament of confession.

To have No opinion on homosexuality, is to have no opinion of anything, be it pedophilia, beastiality, killing, theft, abuse, commandments etc or abortion-baby slaughter by piercing their skulls & sucking childrens brains
The entire fabric of our society is built on a moral code from God, or was rather-we are now becomming Rome-esque in our decline.

The tired argument of warring over religions is nonsense. 
Wars are & were fought for empires. Launched by fallible, corrupt men to feed their vices of greed, vanity & the like to stretch their empires. Religion becomes a vehicle for hate but isnt the cause.

WW2 we fought "Krauts, ***** & Gooks". To demonize. Vietnam was Slants or VC or gooks again. Iraq is Hajiis, sand ******* or *************. 
Hate & killing isnt necessarily natural for many, so this process becomes a part of the programming done by the military to war & to kill.


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## goldhunter470

uglyman said:


> To have No opinion on homosexuality, *is to have no opinion of anything, be it pedophilia, beastiality, killing, theft, abuse, commandments etc or abortion-baby slaughter by piercing their skulls & sucking childrens brains*
> The entire fabric of our society is built on a moral code, or was rather-we are now becomming Rome-esque in our decline.


This is where I see the failure in your argument. Homosexuality harms no one. It is how people are wired. The American Psychological Association has stated that "there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people." So to say, as far as I can assume from your argument, that homosexuality is a behavior is purely wrong. It's not a behavior, rather it is just how you are. Many animals in the wild practice homosexuality. Would this make those animals "evil"? Pedophilia, beastiality, killing, theft, abuse and abortion all harm others. They are an infringement on the personal wellbeing of another, non-consenting, being.

I am very straight by the way. I have been married twice (to a WOMAN), I have two children and one more on the way.


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## uglyman

I used to think the same as you, even rationalized abortion & other sick, sinful behavior.

Homosexuality is an affront to God & to the Family, as an institution, thats where youre off.
What 2 people do behind their doors is their business & Gods' but our society is becoming accustomed to it, losing its shock value to its sickness & perverison..Gay pride marches, Will & Grace, Queer eye for the straight guy tv shows, Bondage festivals in San Fran Sicko with kids in attendence etc. The family unit is being broken down by those that promote this sickness. God created Adam & Eve, Not Adam & Steve.

Its deviant, sick behavior.
Deviant meaning, deviate from the norm. An aberration statistically.
Roughly 5% are Gay. Its not normal when broken down statistically. 
Some have been cured of it, by accepting God & practicing their faith. Premarital sex is wrong & falls under adultery, which is wrong & against Gods commandmant. Even we as heterosexuals, must practice restraint, whether in dating or in marriage. Soo too, must Gays. Acting on ones urges is wrong. To have attraction isnt by nature sinful (venial) but acting out on it is wrong, theres where Gays are off.

Ive seen it in animals as well, but it is usuallly about dominance. Rank etc
Not 2 animals mating for life..& rearing young. Thats unnatural & abnormal
Up until about 1975, Homosexuality was considered a mental illness before lobbyists got to the bench. I believe it still is a mental sickness and is cureable in most cases. In others, restraint..


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## Gun Owner

uglyman said:


> To have No opinion on homosexuality, is to have no opinion of anything, be it pedophilia, beastiality, killing, theft, abuse, commandments etc or abortion-baby slaughter by piercing their skulls & sucking childrens brains
> The entire fabric of our society is built on a moral code from God, or was rather-we are now becomming Rome-esque in our decline.


My wife is bisexual. She is non practicing, but it is who she is. Two of my closest friends are a wonderful lesbian couple. Their daughter and my son play together quite often. For you to lump 3 people I truly care about in the same group with people that would rape and kill or abort children is beyond reproach. These people are extremely conservative in many respects, they just happen to like women as much as you or I do.

If you personally dont agree with homosexuality, thats your problem. But this is beyond vile. I cant imagine any truly god fearing man having as much hate as you have demonstrated in your recent posts. Something in your life has made you angry an bitter, and I promise when you shed that weight, life will become so much easier for you.


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## Gun Owner

uglyman said:


> Deviant meaning, deviate from the norm. An aberration statistically.
> Roughly 5% are Gay. Its not normal when broken down statistically.


Roughly 7-10% of the population is left handed. So by your definition they are an aberration.



> Some have been cured of it, by accepting God & practicing their faith.


They use to try and "cure" lefties too.......


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## swampbuck

it's true, in preschool the teacher wouldn't allow me to write left handed, so now i write right handed and i have terrible handwriting. if you put a bat, golf club, or hockey stick in my hand, i can't swing the damn thing right handed but i do well as a lefty with those things. but i throw right handed, and i can jump eqaully well off my left or right foot for a layup, but i can only shoot jumpshots right handed, and when i dribble im eqaully skilled with both hands. im confused 

:lol: you get the picture


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## uglyman

Gun owner..I hate the sin, love the sinner.
Homosexuality is a Sin, it Offends God. We are commanded in the bible, its very clear. Stoning used to be the cure for this. My opinion, still should,as should murder, pedophilia etc.

Homosexuality is an affront to the family, an insult, a mockery of the family, its deviant & will eventually break us down, its doing so already. Other groups are pushing "PC" down our throats to castrate Christians. The ADL & ACLU are behind it. Goodbye Christmas, Santa Claus, Christmass Trees. It might offend a Jew or atheist. 
TOO BAD!!! We dont tell them how to worship. How dare they.

Im the hater? I follow the teachings of Christianity. Not watered down Christianity but the traditional teachings, sanctioned in many denominations. Men laying with men is sickness, same goes for women. Sickness. Attraction is one thing but acting on sick urges is another. Premarital sex is wrong. Same sex couples should be outlawed, banned, arrested & have therapy, castrated or put to death. Biblically, this is sound-like it or not. The cure is sound religious teaching & Morality. Period.
I wont tolerate my kids playing with those of same sex couples, so we home school for that reason, among many.

Being left handed isnt a sin. 
Laying with another man is. 
It is an aberration, statisically deviate or deviant. 
I used it to demonstrate my point. Ive heard 5%. You say 7%. I find it hard to belive 7%. That number is inflated BY them to ratioanlize the sickness & perversion.

The last place I thought Id be defending my views is on a sportsmens website, amazing how times have changed in just a few years or decade, their plan is working it seems-Divide & Conquer..


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## Gun Owner

Wow, that was an awesome post! I dont know where to begin, so why not the top....

#1. Hate the sin, love the sinner.... 
So you love them by stoning them to death? I hope to god you dont love anyone, or a lot of good people are gonna end up on your hit list.

#2 Homosexuality is an affront to the family.....
I've got heterosexual members of my family that couldnt raise a rock to adulthood without it becoming a drug addicted thief. Somehow they are morally superior to my lesbian friends raising a daughter? It boggles the mind.

#3 Following the teachings of Christianity by arresting, castrating, and killing homosexuals.....
As I understand it, The first and foremost lesson of Christianty is forgiveness. It is not our job to play god on Earth. If God truly "hates ****" Like those nutjobs from the Westboro Baptist Church claim, then god will handle them on his own. Speaking of Westboro, I've got a strong feeling you may be a member of this organization, am I right?

#4"They" inflated the number to 7%....
Actually dude, I said 7-10% of the population is left handed, I didnt say gay. You are so eager to form a conspiracy against a group you vehmently hate that you didnt even read my post in its orignal context. That means I am basically typing this post to show everyone else what a complete and utter whackjob you are.

On a final note, Jesus loves you. I think you're a rectum.


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## uglyman

You have this false notion that God is not Righteous, not to be feared & does not seek justice nor retribution. God is not to be mocked or Blasphemed.
God will come again & I assure you that he is angry. We will likely see in our lifetime, imo, the unparralled suffering & worlds savagery upon us. WW3/4

I love the sinner & would ask for repentence from them as taught. To be renewed & to be cleansed of sin would follow. Contrition & forgiveness. But barring this, then yes, stoning & death is in order for sickos & deviants. NAMBLA is a Gay organization that wants legalized man/boy love. Is this ok too? Where does one draw the line? The Bible is very clear about relations..

I didnt say there werent poor heterosexual parents or good homosexual ones. I said Homosexuality an affront & insult to God. It scandalizes other Christian parents that work at maintaining proper order & teach Gods law to their children. I see poor heterosexual parenting, mostly from pagans, atheists, un Godly or very confused people. Gay parents are the minority for sure.

Forgiveness isnt the only tenant of Christianity, Jesus wasnt Crucified for teaching love & forgiveness by the Jews. But for Demanding Justice, Mercy, Truth & Faithfulness. Please go read a Bible. I said Im a traditional Catholic. Im not a Baptist.

Call me what you like, but I assure you that I follow my faith & am principled, unlike you, who rationailzes sickness & perversion, even defends it.

"I did Not come to bring peace, but a sword" Matthew 10:34 -Jesus

You Hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices- But you have neglected the more important matters of the law- Justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind fools! Matthew 23:23-24-Jesus

You are of your Father the Devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a Murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is No truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44 -Jesus


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## goldhunter470

uglyman said:


> You have this false notion that God is not Righteous, not to be feared & does not seek justice nor retribution. God is not to be mocked or Blasphemed.
> God will come again & I assure you that he is angry. We will likely see in our lifetime, imo, the unparralled suffering & worlds savagery upon us. WW3/4


This is the problem I have with religion. You love death more than life, uglyman. Nothing would suit your cause more than Iran or N. Korea launching a nuclear missile and tipping off WWIII. How do you know "god" is angry? Do you have his number? If you do, please have him call me and set things straight. Where do you get off telling me what "god" is or isn't and what he thinks and how YOU think I, or anyone else, should run their life?! Your line of thought will be the end of the world, but it will be caused by folks like yourself, not because the sky will open and god will reach his hand down and b!+ch slap us. That is pure insanity. Use the reason "god" gave you!!!


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## goldhunter470

uglyman said:


> I see poor heterosexual parenting, *mostly from pagans, atheists, un Godly or very confused people*. Gay parents are the minority for sure.


And this is probably the most disgusting and insulting piece of crap I have EVER seen on this forum. My grandmother was a churchgoer and god fearing woman. She beat the living hell out of my dad until he was 14. Good parenting huh? I have two boys, one in third grade, who they are thinking of pushing up a grade because of his accelerated talents. The other is a healthy, vibrant kindergartner who is full of life and doing well in school. You're wicked tongue is almost more than I can stand.



uglyman said:


> Goodbye Christmas, Santa Claus, Christmass Trees. It might offend a Jew or atheist.


You know "Christmas, Santa Clause and Christmas trees are pagan in their origins, right? And it has be hijacked by many other religions as well.



uglyman said:


> We dont tell them how to worship. How dare they.


Yes. You do. And you have in your last few replies.


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## DecoyDummy

Uglynam ... The attitude I'm seeing would belie your stated belief that Wars are not fought on Religious Principles.

Instigating war on Religious Principle would certainly be "Un-American" in nature, but over the history of the World it has been quite common.


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## cwoparson

Can't help but notice that our young men and women are fighting people with the same ideas as uglyman. How ironic. Then again people who claim to be just followers and not thinkers for themselves usually end up as haters with no thought process of their own.

Sorry uglyman but your not a Christian as I have been taught but just a thoughtless follower with no ability to read and interpret the bible on your own. Stoning people to death. You don't even understand what you have been taught by other haters. You've proven you can copy and paste parables from unproven authors and they are unproven, that's why it is called faith. Why not prove you can stand on your own with your own thoughts to pen.

Don't know why you should be surprised that the people here on this sportsman's website would not have the ability to think for themselves and not blindly swallow the vile hatred you spew. Something tells me your circle of friends is very small and unwelcome just about everywhere.


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## Reddbecca

uglyman said:


> You have this false notion that God is not Righteous, not to be feared & does not seek justice nor retribution. God is not to be mocked or Blasphemed.
> God will come again & I assure you that he is angry. We will likely see in our lifetime, imo, the unparralled suffering & worlds savagery upon us. WW3/4
> 
> I love the sinner & would ask for repentence from them as taught. To be renewed & to be cleansed of sin would follow. Contrition & forgiveness. But barring this, then yes, stoning & death is in order for sickos & deviants. NAMBLA is a Gay organization that wants legalized man/boy love. Is this ok too? Where does one draw the line? The Bible is very clear about relations..
> 
> I didnt say there werent poor heterosexual parents or good homosexual ones. I said Homosexuality an affront & insult to God. It scandalizes other Christian parents that work at maintaining proper order & teach Gods law to their children. I see poor heterosexual parenting, mostly from pagans, atheists, un Godly or very confused people. Gay parents are the minority for sure.
> 
> Forgiveness isnt the only tenant of Christianity, Jesus wasnt Crucified for teaching love & forgiveness by the Jews. But for Demanding Justice, Mercy, Truth & Faithfulness. Please go read a Bible. I said Im a traditional Catholic. Im not a Baptist.
> 
> Call me what you like, but I assure you that I follow my faith & am principled, unlike you, who rationailzes sickness & perversion, even defends it.
> 
> "I did Not come to bring peace, but a sword" Matthew 10:34 -Jesus
> 
> You Hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices- But you have neglected the more important matters of the law- Justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind fools! Matthew 23:23-24-Jesus
> 
> You are of your Father the Devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a Murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is No truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:44 -Jesus


 :******:

Now you hold it right there Uglyman! You do NOT have the authority to determine what should be done to those who deviate from the set path of the bible! It's not for you or me or anyone to determine that the word of God gives us the power to play the game of divine judgement here on Earth! You're a heretic and heathen for twisting the word of God to suit your own beliefs and assume that it makes it alright to go out and kill those that you think are dirty and unclean and wrong in the sight of the Lord. You're as bad as those you hate!


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## cwoparson

goldhunter470, you can throw Hell into that mix of pagan origins also. Our superstitious English and German ancestors can be thanked for inventing that story. If ugleman actually read and thought on his own he would know that not once in the bible is hell used to describe a place of punishment by torture as he thinks. All he has to do is look up the words Sheol, Hadees, Gehenna, and Tartarus which are the correct words for the state or place of the dead.


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## uglyman

Christmas or Christ Mass is anything but Pagan, you donkeys.
CHRIST MASS. The celebration & Mass of the birth of Jesus, who died for our sins.
Christmas Trees-More nonsense.
St Boniface converted pagan tree worshippers centuries ago. He chopped down the Pagans trees, guess what grew back in their place? A Fir tree. Hence the tradition was started.

A pic is worth 1000 words. Heres from the Festival in San Fran, children with their Gay families & exposed to other Gays with Leather Fetishes & those even Pleasuring themselves in public. All ok, right? Sure why not, isnt "hurting anyone".. Youre so far off you cant distinguish good from evil.. Im not judge & Jury But an advocate for sound biblical punishment. Capital punishment is Biblically sound for deviants & Sickos. Was up until about 75-100 years ago here, laws still exist on the books.. Burning, Stoning, Hanging was all done. It is Biblically Sound. All Christians took part in it, from all denominations. Or until recently, relatively speaking.
Youre so soft you forget what it means to practice your faith & Stand for something. But most spend time in front of their Programming tube, or listen to a drug addict & Neo Con Whore-El Rushbo, tell them How it Aint..

http://xpress.sfsu.edu/archives/news/004352.html

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/10/04/mi ... uncovered/

You made a point of who we are fighting in the Middle East. Those that dont wish to be Occupied & never attacked us! 
But, They dont Pimp their women, Slaughter their babies, Sell themselves, participate in girls gone wild or divorce.
Extremist? No, they simply believe in God & practice their faith. 
This includes the 1 million Christians in Iraqs, now mostly refugees, thanks to the Illegal Occupation, on LIES.

Sure enough, there was to be a Gay Pride march in Jerusalem, the Holiest of cities, courtesy of the Atheist Israelis. But the Palestinians put a stop to it.
So in that sense, I share more in common with them than "Western Values" True enough. 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,202975,00.html

I never implied all Christians were good parents. Abusers come in many shapes & Sizes, though I do believe spoil the rod, spare the child.
Im not a Dr Spock, time out advocate. Im my child's Father, Not his best friend.

CWOPARSON-You point out Old Testament version of Hell, which Jews believe-they dont believe in Hell. Either youre an atheist or Jew. The New Covenant contains many mentions of Hell, as to where SInners spend eternity..
Please read your bible.

And we now know who is "Out of the Closet". 
I ashamed to even have to address such depravity & surprised it exists on this board..


----------



## Reddbecca

Now you listen to me, boy, what you're an advocate for is the murder of hundreds of millions of people who are guilty of simply being different than you! You're supporting that people be killed simply because you don't believe that they're right in their action and that that simple fact is grounds for them being executed! What you're doing is no different than what Hitler and the Nazi regime did in occupied Germany, the only difference is you're taking a passive approach while they took an active approach.

You advocate that millions of people be murdered outright without so much as a trial, and some people wonder why we feel that it's necessary to our safety that we own guns. It's because people like you exist, people who think that just because somebody is different then they have no right to live and would have no problem with killing us for no reason other than just because we're there!

I hate political correctness as much as the next guy, be him mexican, black, chinese, or trailer trash! But I absolutely will not remain silent and let you bash people who choose to live their lives their way! You're no better than me or anybody else here! Afterall, surely the Bible tells you to love your neighbor and forgive your enemy, correct? It doesn't just preach the murder of those that have done wrong in the sight of the Lord. God is the one that said he will have vengance, it's not for you to try and help him in that. He destroyed Soddom and Gamorah without any help from you, he can do the same thing to San Francisco whenever He feels that it should happen!

And another thing! Just because somebody's gay doesn't mean that they're trying to undermine the value of the American way of life by destroying the family unit! A good family unit has at least one parent that teaches their children right from wrong and how to lead a good life. And while you might say their lifestyle flies in the face of all that is right, if their kids don't grow up to be serial killers and drug dealers and child rapists, then obviously they've done a good job at raising the brat to live right!

Somebody's gay, so what!? It doesn't make them a member of a terrorist organization seeking to bring about the downfall of America. They're just a minority that wants to be treated equally. If that's so wrong then it's obviously wrong to be black because that's the same thing they want.


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## goldhunter470

> I never implied all Christians were good parents. Abusers come in many shapes & Sizes, though I do believe *spoil the rod, spare the child*.


You may have not implied all Christians are good parents, but you sure as hell did imply that UNbelievers are bad parents. It's absolutely sickening.

Get your quotes right before you spout your drivel. And I wasn't talking about a spanking. My kids have had their fair share. I'm talking about child abuse. Are you a child abuser? Sure sounds like it.



> Christmas or Christ Mass is anything but Pagan, you donkeys.


I implied it was hijacked by Christians. More nonsense from you. Twisting things to fit your agenda. "In Europe, when the practice of setting up evergreen trees originated in pagan times, the practice was associated with the Winter Solstice, around December 21. *Tree decoration was later adopted into Christian practice after the Church set December 25th as the birth of Christ, thereby supplanting the pagan celebration of the solstice*." Taken from Wikipedia. There is your hijack of the tree.



> Burning, Stoning, Hanging was all done. It is Biblically Sound. All Christians took part in it, from all denominations. Or until recently, relatively speaking.


Do you realize what year it is? Do you know that we have moved past these abominations and have become more civilized? Nevermind. I forgot who I was talking to.



> Youre so soft you forget what it means to practice your faith & Stand for something.


I do stand for something. I stand for tolerance of things I do not understand, that have no impact on my life, not going around stoning and burning people who don't conform to my beliefs.



> And we now know who is "Out of the Closet".


I have found that people with the most venomous hatred of things are usually the ones with something to hide. We may know who is out of the closet, but I certainly know who is still in it.

This page seems right up your alley......

http://www.godhatesfags.com/


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## DecoyDummy

At this point I could just about hold Uglyman up as a sterling example of why it is that Freedom and Democracy in the Middle East is our best chance at controlling Radical Islam and by doing so protect ourselves and our way of life.

One can easily see how if one is not bound by "Mans Laws" he could easily take his personal perspective of the Laws of God and without guilt or fear meet out punishment ...

His only worry would be that his superiors in the religious structure are supportive of him carrying out the dirty work.

It's so easy to say, "I act in the name of God or in the protectioin of God's name" when the only authority are folks who believe themselves to be "Men of that same God."

That my friends, is called a Theocracy and that is the stuff Radical Islam is made of

In that scenerio the Laws of Man are all that can protect one man from another.

Or so it seems to me.

edited to correct spelling error


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## uglyman

I can see I will have to educate you more..

Hitler was a Threat to Communism. 
General Patton called WW2 a Defeat & wanted to Re ARM Germany to invade Russia, as the Bolshevik Jews had killed off 50 Million Christians. 
Russia got Poland & half of Europe. We still have bases there 60 yrs later, it was no victory.

WW2 was only about 2 things..
1. Creating a UN
2 Creating Israel

The International Red Cross Holocaust Records, recently unsealed, Show only 271,000 Dead Jews in all of WW2, 95% died from Typhus according to the Red Cross. 
Doc is avilable on line to view.
Auschwitz Memorial has already been changed once in 1989 from 4 Mil dead to 1.5 Mil. Wonder if theyll change again to 52k per the Red Cross.

Freedom & Democracy is exactly what we arent doing in Iraq, had there been no Oil or Israel we wouldnt be there. We assasinated Bhutto 2 days ago, imo. We care not for freedom or democracy. Homosexualtiy has nothing to do with Freedom or democracy. Its a sin against God & nature. This nation was founded BY Christians for Christians that wanted to worship in Freedom, now its become atheist , secular & Soft & thats why I submit that AmeriKa is doomed..

Im not for murderering Sinners but you must remember, less than 200 years ago, we burned Witches here, yes witches. Let alone Perverts, Pedophiles, Sickos & Gay couples living in Open Sin now with kids. 
I prefer treatment for them or banishing remotely, or worst case, as serious repeat offenders, the death penalty. 
Youre so far removed from your faith, you cant see evil from good any longer.
Gay couples taking kids to Leather Fetish festivals in front of other sickos pleasuring themselves openly is sickness. It is harmful to any society at large.

Wikipedia is owned by a former Gay XXX Pornographer & Rabid Zionist & Dual citizen, James Wales, of Bomis. It is CIA controlled as "they" are trying to control research now too, in addition to the media, which they do. It is questionable at best in accuracy & often not accurate.
St Boniface & St Nicholas Converted tree worshipping Pagans & thats where Christmas Trees became a tradition, after him cutting down their trees.
http://www.christmasarchives.com/trees.html

I dont support protesting military funerals to protest queers & sodomy but perhaps the Illegal war & Occuaption though I think it in bad taste.
If you detest SIN, you are to call it out & it should be punished if it is serious, this includes murder & laws are on the books for homosexualiity but no longer enforced really.
Loving your neighbor is a tenant of our religion, Loving Sin is Not.


----------



## Gun Owner

Man dont stop now! Im getting ready to pop some corn and grab a beer.

WW2 was fought to start the UN and Isreal? WOW!

If you are a painter or a songwriter please share your art, because you have got to be one of the most creative individuals I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

And for the record, you keep metioning disbelief at finding people like us at a sportsmans website. We are sportsmen. We are republican and democrat sportsmen. WE are straight and gay sportsmen. WE are Catholic, Mormon, Christian, Buddist, Atheist and Agnostic sportsmen. (FYI, one half of the lesbian couple I mentioned earlier is an accomplished Bowhunter, somethin I myself have never tried.) If the webaddress was www.godhatesfags.com/hunters then maybe I would understand your disbelief.


----------



## goldhunter470

We have officially gone off the deep end!!!!!!!!!!!!



> Gents,
> It isnt that hard if you will put down your remote & READ. Mathematics isnt hard either leaast addtion/subtraction..
> *I pulled this off Wikipedia*, Im not a huge fan, as its owned by James Wales, a former XXX Pornographer & Rabid Zionist, also controlled by the CIA, but I agree with their assessment of Iran..


You are so ridiculously transparent. What a joke. As long as Wikipedia puts something up that you agree with, it's ok? Otherwise, the owner is a disgusting pornographer. You are propaganda at the highest level. uke:


----------



## Reddbecca

> I can see I will have to educate you more..


_You_ have to educate _me_?



> The International Red Cross Holocaust Records, recently unsealed, Show only 271,0000 Dead Jews in all of WW2, 95% died from Typhus according to the Red Cross.
> Doc is avilable on line to view.
> Auschwitz Memorial has already been changed once in 1989 from 4 Mil dead to 1.5 Mil. Wonder if theyll change again to 52k per the Red Cross.


My sources say it was six million Jews that died in the concentration camps. And since you failed to supply the document you claim this information came from your argument is rather moot.



> Homosexualtiy has nothing to do with Freedom or democracy. Its a sin against God & nature.


Oh really? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15750604

Seems that half of your argument has just been blown away.



> This nation was founded BY Christians for Christians that wanted to worship in Freedom, now its become atheist , secular & Soft & thats why I submit that AmeriKa is doomed..


Then get the hell out of my country!



> Im not for murderering Sinners but you must remember, less than 200 years ago, we burned Witches here, yes witches. Let alone Perverts, Pedophiles, Sickos & Gay couples living in Open Sin now with kids.


And during the industrial revolution in America even children had to work entire days in sweat shops around dangerous machinery to make a few pennies a week. How far back to you actually wanna go in returning to the old ways?



> I prefer treatment for them


Treatment as in aversion therapy like electro-shock treatment?



> or banishing remotely,


An island full of gay people? Why don't we just build a fence around San Franciso?



> or worst case, as serious repeat offenders, the death penalty.


You just said you aren't for the murder of sinners, now you're saying they deserve the death penalty. Which statement are you willing to stand by and support fully?



> Youre so far removed from your faith, you cant see evil from good any longer.


The way I learned the Bible, God sent us a Savior so that all we had to do was ask for forgiveness and really mean it when we ask for it, to actually get it. Now if God can forgive a habitual mass murderer who makes his earning by selling drugs to preschoolers because he was honest when he asked for salvation, why can't you forgive people for being gay?



> Gay couples taking kids to Leather Fetish festivals in front of other sickos pleasuring themselves openly is sickness. It is harmful to any society at large.


No society is ever going to be 100% perfect, you're always going to have the occasional oddballs.



> Loving your neighbor is a tenant of our religion, Loving Sin is Not.


Wasn't there also something in the Bible about "forgive they enemies"?

Oh yeah, something else to chew on. The Bible also says God declared it wrong to eat pork and seafood, wear blended fabrics and trim facial hair, but keeping slaves was allowed. What's your stance on that, boy?


----------



## DecoyDummy

uglyman

I don't get the impression you can speak with enough clarity, strength or personal integrity to "educate" anyone who is not already primed to take on your propaganda with an eager willingness.

One could easily come to the conclusion that your ability to come up with anything is only from your "in-laws" history and website.

Is there anything of substance in your gut? Anything that doesn't reek with vitriol? If you couldn't "quote" others or refer to web sites would you have any ability to speak with coherency at all?

How about you drop all the extra curricular baggage and just talk with your brain and your fingers ... see where we get from there, because up to now you seem like a perversely radical and insecure nut case.


----------



## cwoparson

> CWOPARSON-You point out Old Testament version of Hell, which Jews believe-they dont believe in Hell. Either youre an atheist or Jew.


You're becoming a very funny man though sad to watch. The word Hadees, or Hades depending on your pronunciation occurs eleven times in the New Testament, and is translated Hell ten times, and grave once. Sorry sport, you're wrong again and you're also wrong that I'm either Jew or Atheist. I am neither but I'll tell you this much, no on second thought what's the point.

One last thing though. Before you start calling people names you should learn a little yourself. The word "Christmas" means "Christ mass," a special celebration of the Lord's supper -- called a mass in the Roman Catholic Church and a Communion supper in most Protestant churches. "The original significance of December 25 is that it was a well-known festival day celebrating the annual return of the sun. December 21 is the winter solstice (shortest day of the year and thus a key date on the calendar), and December 25 is the first day that ancients could clearly note that the days were definitely getting longer and the sunlight was returning. So, why was December 25 chosen to remember Jesus Christ's birth with a mass (or Communion supper)? Since no one knows the day of his birth, the Roman Catholic Church felt free to chose this date. The Church wished to replace the pagan festival with a Christian holy day (holiday). The psychology was that is easier to take away an unholy (but traditional) festival from the population, when you can replace it with a good one".

I have to admit that never before have I been called a donkey by a jackass. Not sure what to make of that.


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## uglyman

Cwoparson..2 posts & youve contributed nothing..

I corrected the poster about Christmas or Christ Mass. 
Its Not a Pagan Holiday as stated But a celebration of Christ's Birthday & Mass in his honour, & now a Secular shopping spree for the pagans. Im well familiar with the solstice & the calendar.
St Boniface started the Christmas tree tradition,as well, along with St Nicholas.

And I dont care if youre atheist, Jewish or muslim for that matter, but point it out about Jews & their non acceptance of a Hell.

Youre incorrect about Hell as well 
Ill enlighten you:

"The Latin infernus (inferum, inferi), the Greek Hades, and the Hebrew sheol correspond to the word hell. Infernus is derived from the root in; hence it designates hell as a place within and below the earth. Haides, formed from the root fid, to see, and a privative, denotes an invisible, hidden, and dark place; thus it is similar to the term hell. The derivation of sheol is doubtful. It is generally supposed to come from the Hebrew root meaning, "to be sunk in, to be hollow"; accordingly it denotes a cave or a place under the earth. 
In the Old Testament (Septuagint hades; Vulgate infernus) sheol is used quite in general to designate the kingdom of the dead, of the good (Genesis 37:35) as well as of the bad (Numbers 16:30); it means hell in the strict sense of the term, as well as the limbo of the Fathers. But, as the limbo of the Fathers ended at the time of Christ's Ascension, hades (Vulgate infernus) in the New Testament always designates the hell of the damned.

Since Christ's Ascension the just no longer go down to the lower world, but they dwell in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:1). However, in the New Testament the term Gehenna is used more frequently in preference to hades, as a name for the place of punishment of the damned. Gehenna is the Hebrew gê-hinnom (Nehemiah 11:30), or the longer form gê-ben-hinnom (Joshua 15:8), and gê-benê-hinnom (2 Kings 23:10) "valley of the sons of Hinnom". Hinnom seems to be the name of a person not otherwise known. The Valley of Hinnom is south of Jerusalem and is now called Wadi er-rababi. It was notorious as the scene, in earlier days, of the horrible worship of Moloch. For this reason it was defiled by Josias (2 Kings 23:10), cursed by Jeremias (Jeremiah 7:31-33), and held in abomination by the Jews, who, accordingly, used the name of this valley to designate the abode of the damned (Targ. Jon., Gen., iii, 24; Henoch, c. xxvi). And Christ adopted this usage of the term. Besides Hades and Gehenna, we find in the New Testament many other names for the abode of the damned. It is called "lower hell" (Vulgate tartarus) (2 Peter 2:4), "abyss" (Luke 8:31 and elsewhere), "place of torments" (Luke 16:28), "pool of fire" (Revelation 19:20 and elsewhere), "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:42, 50), "unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12, and elsewhere), "everlasting fire" (Matthew 18:8; 25:41; Jude 7), "exterior darkness" (Matthew 7:12; 22:13; 25:30), "mist" or "storm of darkness" (2 Peter 2:17; Jude 13). The state of the damned is called "destruction" (apoleia, Phil., iii, 19, and elsewhere), "perdition" (olethros, 1 Timothy 6:9), "eternal destruction" (olethros aionios, 2 Thessalonians 1:9), "corruption" (phthora, Galatians 6:8), "death" (Romans 6:21), "second death" (Revelation 2:11 and elsewhere)."


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## Reddbecca

It's easy to stand tall and be superior when you use the accepted works of others as your foundation. Unfortunately those that adopt this tactic are usually weak and unable to have a sound argument with others using their own merits and have to retreat because they know they'll be defeated otherwise.

Why don't you address the points I made rather than quoting scripture? Are you afraid to be proven incorrect and unknowing? Or is it you just don't want to be proven wrong by a woman?


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## uglyman

Redbecca...since youre too lazy to do any research here it is.
International Red Cross Holocaust Records, or believe Hollyweirds version.

http://judicial-inc.biz/pics/paarrge_2.jpg

The NT is very clear on the Jewish Laws being antiquated. Christians can well eat pork & seafood. Beards arent necessary.
Obviously, youre a Jew or non christian? A guess..


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## Reddbecca

Still haven't done anything to address the other points. All you bring to the fight is a poor scan of a document that's barely legible.

Come back when you're ready to play with the big boys and leave your arsenal of scripture behind so you can fight on your own merits.


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## goldhunter470

The best part about this is his tag line considering he has no ideas anyway. Well except Jews and other non christians (except muslims?) are the scum of the earth. Weird.....


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## uglyman

Fair enough Redbecca, even though the International Red Cross was allowed full visits & given meticulous records by the Germans.

How about Old Almanacs, why they never lie...Notice the population of Jews Increased my dear..
Oh, and I attached a photo of the Auschwitz Memorial Changed in 1989 from Andrew Winkler. Yet they never changed the dead total.
6 million- 2.5 million= 6 million.. Thats odd.

584,549 MORE Jews in 1949 than in 1940

Meyers Handlexicon, Germany 1921 -- 11,600,000

World Almanac, 1925, pg. 752 -- 15,630,000, "In 1925 a census of Palestine gave a total of 115,151 Jews"

World Almanac, 1929, pg. 727 -- 15,630,000

National Council of Churches 1930 -- 15,600 ,000

March 24, 1933, Jewish newspaper Daily Express -- 14,000,000 Jews worldwide

World Almanac, 1933, pg. 419 -- 15,316,359, ["The estimate for Jews in the above table is for 1933, and is by the American Jewish Committee"

World Almanac, 1936, pg. 748 -- world Jewish population = 15,753,633

World Almanac, 1938, pg. 510 -- world Jewish population = 15,748,091, with 240,000 in Germany

American Jewish Committee Bureau of the Synagogue Council, 1939 -- 15,600,000

World Almanac, 1940, pg. 129: World Jewish Population -- 15,319,359

World Almanac, 1941, pg. 510: World Jewish Population -- 15,748,091

World Almanac, 1942, pg. 849: World Jewish Population -- 15,192,089 ("Jews include Jews by race not necessarily by religion")

World Almanac USA, 1947, pg. 748: World Jewish Population -- 15,690,000

World Almanac, 1949, pg. 289: World Jewish Population -- 15,713,638

Statistical Handbook of Council of Churches USA 1951 -- 15,300,000

Encyclopedia Britannica's 1955 Book of the Year -- 11,627,450, "Jewish figures include all Jews whether members of a synagogue or not"

World Almanac, US News & World Report, 1983 population of Jews -- 16,820,850

World Almanac, 1996, pg. 646: World Jewish Population -- 14,117,000

Photo: Auschwitz Memorial, courtesy Andrew Winkler
http://www.davidduke.com/general/the-sh ... _2982.html


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## Reddbecca

uglyman said:


> Fair enough Redbecca, even though the International Red Cross was allowed full visits & given meticulous records by the Germans.


And the Germans were the same people that killed the Jews because they were different and not part of the master race. How trustworthy are they in determining just how many people they killed.

Third time I've asked, why don't you address the other issues I've brought up? Why do you choose to ignore them rather than give them the attention they deserve?


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## uglyman

Lastly REDBecca..you like many, have this notion that all sin is forgiven And that we dont have to Pay for our SIn.
Wrong.
We will pay. We ask for forgiveness. We hope its granted & we serve contrition, But we will pay & Serve our time in Purgatory.
This idea of a get out of jail free card while committing sins repetitiously is nonsense & not sound theology.

Yes treatment for Gays, it was considered a MENTAL ILLNESS Here in the USA until 1973 & some liberal attorneys got it removed & changed.

Good ole days, yes I think in many ways, we are lost. We are being invaded, are morally bankrupt We resemble Rome in so many ways, the decline that is. Its only a matter of time. SHort time.

MSNBC-and a weak story by the controlled media that you want me to swallow about Homosexuality!. Its nonsense and only serves their purpose. Distraction through filth, pornography, decaying morals & ethics.

USA Media is now ranked 53rd most Free of 165 nations, based on 50 criteria. CIA controlled.
Zioganda or Propoganda is what its called.


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## uglyman

Rebecca, 
We are all now dumber for having read your posts.

International Jewry Declared war ON Germany in 1933! Here it was in the newspaper, dear. The Boycott.. What was that about the big dogs you said?
http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/script ... ecwar.html

Master Race? Get your facts straight. The Real Holocaust is in Gaza.
Its is the Jews who still consider themselves "chosen", when it is we Christians that are now, in fact Chosen, called by God..

"Our race is the Master Race. 
We are divine gods on this planet.
We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects.
In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals,
cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our
destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will
be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our
feet and serve us as our slaves."
--Israeli PM Menachim Begin


----------



## Reddbecca

> Lastly REDBecca..you like many, have this notion that all sin is forgiven And that we dont have to Pay for our SIn.
> Wrong.
> 
> We will pay. We ask for forgiveness. We hope its granted & we serve contrition, But we will pay & Serve our time in Purgatory.
> This idea of a get out of jail free card while committing sins repetitiously is nonsense & not sound theology.


Oh I see, I'm dealing with a catholic here. You believe that asking isn't enough, you believe that you've gotta work hard and struggle to get in God's good graces so you can earn your way to Heaven.

That's a bunch of crap! I really dont' care how you people came up with this idea of doing good deeds to earn God's favor, but I fail to see where the Bible supports this belief. Last I read, it said that God is the only way into Heaven, not good deeds on Earth that nobody will remember two generations from now.



> Yes treatment for Gays, it was considered a MENTAL ILLNESS Here in the USA until 1973 & some liberal attorneys got it removed & changed.


And the police used to be able to beat a confession out of you with a rubber hose. What's your point?



> Good ole days, yes I think in many ways, we are lost. We are being invaded, are morally bankrupt We resemble Rome in so many ways, the decline that is. Its only a matter of time. SHort time.


Why are our actions on this temporary plane so upsetting to you? Those that're wicked will get theirs, those that're good will be rewarded. Until then we're just occupying space and passing the time.



> MSNBC-and a weak story by the controlled media that you want me to swallow about Homosexuality!. Its nonsense and only serves their purpose. Distraction through filth, pornography, decaying morals & ethics.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_an ... l_behavior


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## goldhunter470

Don't hold your breath Reddbecca. We're all just dirty Jews and blasphemous atheists and we let facts get in the way of our blind hatred and stupidity.


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## cwoparson

:lol: You take a couple of words without context and think you have something to dazzle everyone with. Try it in context and see if it fits. Lets see now you said "unquenchable fire" (Matthew 3:12, and elsewhere). In context that would be "Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire". Then there was "2 Peter 2:17 "mist" or "storm of darkness". In context it would be "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever". The rest are all the same. Once again you have proven just how little you really know.


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## uglyman

Thats where youre wrong Goldhunter.
Theres No hate in me, my religion forbids it. There is a sense of justice however & calling hate OUT.
Notice these & verifiable in Any hyperlinked Jewish Encyclopedia. Cardinal George of Chicago, vehemently protests these. Might these be Hateful & Supremist? Golly, they are religious texts as well: Oy Vey, right Redbecca?

Jewish TALMUD:

"All gentile children are animals" -Yebamoth 98a

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

"If a man commits sodomy w/ a boy less than 9 both are guilty of sodomy" Sanhedrin 54b, 55a, p.371

Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may violate a 3 year old girl

Soferim 15, #10 "The best of the gentiles should All be killed"

Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

"The non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as Slaves" (Midrasch Talpioth 225

"On the house of the goy one looks as on the fold of cattle." -- Tosefta, Erabin VZZ, 1.

"A Jew is permitted to rape, cheat and perjure himself; but he must take care that he is not found out, so that Israel may not suffer." -- Schulchan Aruch, Jore Dia.

"A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl." -- &ad. Shas. 2:2.
===============================================

"We must use Terror, Assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of All social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
--Israeli PM David Ben-Gurion, May 1948.

"I think the Government should put Bombs in Palestinian Hospitals, unfortunately the Government doesn't do it, so it is up to the people to do those things." 
--Noam Federman, Israeli org. Kach, (JDL)

"Israel MUST Invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the method of Provocation and revenge.... And above all, let us Hope for a new war with the Arab countries so that we may finally get Rid of our troubles and Acquire our space."
--from the personal diary of Moshe Sharett, Israel's 1st Foreign Minister from 1948-1956, Prime Minister from 1954-1956.

The Palestinians are Beasts walking on 2 legs."
-- Israeli PM Menachem Begin, to the Knesset, A. Kapeliouk, "Begin & the 'Beasts," New Statesman,
6/25/ 1982

"The Palestinians would be Crushed like grasshoppers ... heads Smashed against the boulders and walls."
-- Israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir to Jewish settlers 
NY Times 4/1/1988

Now, Ive got video to substantiate ALL of these claims. Ask and you shall receive..War crimes on demand.
I tend to steam roller over hypocrites for fun, so you best watch out. You are out of your league, I assure you..


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## uglyman

Cwoparson...youre another person for whom such posts as yours make us dumber
The Bible was written in Aramaic, Greek & Hebrew. 
When it is translated down 2-3- times, it gets murky. I know because I speak 3 languages..Latin, SPanish & English.

Your claim of 11 references in the NT to Hell 11 times was false, i called you on it and corrected you, Now Im explaining linguistics to you in the framework of translation & comprehension. What I listed was correct.
The verses & references work fine depending on the language you are speaking.


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## goldhunter470

> Notice & verifiable in Any hyperlinked Jewish Talmud.


_*YOU*_ are the one who referenced Wikipedia in another thread!!!!! _*YOU*_ are the one who will use a source that you decry to be evil and despicable if it suits your agenda. Your hatred for your fellow man is despicable and apparent. You speak with forked tongue.



> uglyman
> guest
> 
> Joined: 24 Dec 2007
> Posts: 53
> 
> PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject:
> Add User to Ignore ListReply with quote
> Gents,
> It isnt that hard if you will put down your remote & READ. Mathematics isnt hard either leaast addtion/subtraction..
> *I pulled this off Wikipedia, Im not a huge fan, as its owned by James Wales, a former XXX Pornographer & Rabid Zionist, also controlled by the CIA, but I agree with their assessment of Iran..*
> 
> "In the 1953 Iranian coup d'état, the United Kingdom and the USA orchestrated the overthrow of the democratically-elected administration of Prime Minister Mohammed Mosaddeq and his cabinet from power. The support of the coup was carried out, using widespread bribery[1] in a covert operation by Kermit Roosevelt, Jr. for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).
> According to a report on the BBC, Britain, motivated by its desire to control Iranian oil fields, contributed to funding for the widespread bribery of Iranian officials, news media and others. The project to overthrow Iran's government was codenamed Operation Ajax (officially TP-AJAX)."
> 
> As I stated, the USA Put the Shah into power..& he was brutal.
> And its simple physics: For every action, there is an opposite & equal reaction ie Blowback or repurcussion.
> 
> Yes, Peace in the Mid East..There were the Crusades, more to do with empires stretching than religious differences-1098 I think was the first-Pope Urban. Youre obviously ignorant of them as well. Christian Crusaders killed other christians in the Holy Land, they were mercs for hire. Muslims Fought alongside CHristians as one, against the crusaders fairly often. Empires Not religion. Same as war. Terrorism is about Politics, Not religion. Aside from the 2 crusades & a few uprisings, there has been much peace there for 2007 years..
> 
> "Arab Palestinian Christians and Arab Palestinian Muslims lived side by side for the past 1400 years, and for anybody to say that the Arab Palestinian Christians have been persecuted recently by Muslims is absolutely another big Lie, like the big Lie that spoke of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq."
> -- Riah Abu El-Assal, Christian Bishop of Jerusalem
> 
> My issue isnt with Jews, though Im no fan of the vile, Supremist Talmud but with peace. I desire it for all. Seems to me, Israel is The Cancer in the Middle East.


You are just as blasphemous as I am according to your definition.


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## Reddbecca

Boy oh boy, talk about derailing a topic...

Uglyman you've taken a completely unrelated topic and used it as a launchpad for your own personal hate campaign. You hate people that you feel are bad even though you don't know them and choose to use the worst examples as the representatives for the entire group. That's no different than taking the criminal members of black and mexican minorities and saying that anybody who's black or mexican is a criminal and a drug dealer and likely has spent more time in prison by their 13th birthday than any white dude out there has in their entire life.

You say that you have no hate because it's against your religion, yet hate is something within us, it's inborn from our earliest days and can't be gotten rid of. It's primal instinct that's as much a part of us as any major organ, to pretend that it doesn't exist is foolish!

You also say that you have no hate within you, but yet you seem to have any compassion for anyone that chooses to disagree with you. The Bible speaks much of compassion for others, it's not purely a tale a warmongering God that's about nothing more than raining down punishment and suffering on those that turn their back on Him.

You have absolutely no compassion within you, you're nothing but hate regardless of what you might claim. If somebody doesn't follow what you believe God says then they have to be stoned to death for being wrong. Who's to say that you're right in your interpretation? Who's to say that you're not twisting the word of God to fit your own agendas like a true heretic?


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## uglyman

Im but a messenger, You dont like the message, sorry I dont practice those beliefs. THey are Not mine but the Talmud.

Goldhunter... I said ANY Hyperlinked Jewish Encyclopedia. Not wikipedia, thats not a Jewish encyclopedia-Newsflash pal.

I listed them for redbecca who mentioned the "Masterrace" Nonsense. Sort of the pot calling the kettle black huh redbecca?
I guess you opened a can of worms. As said, Im but a messenger. 
Cardinal George is on record as publicly protesting those verses, as ADL & some Jews want all prayers For them removed from our Latin Rite Mass.


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## goldhunter470

> Wikipedia is owned by a former Gay XXX Pornographer & *Rabid Zionist *& Dual citizen, James Wales, of Bomis.
> 
> Not wikipedia, thats not a Jewish encyclopedia-Newsflash pal.


You talk out of both sides of your mouth. Better catch a handrail. You're tripping over yourself.


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## uglyman

Redbecca-what is so funny with people like you is the irony. You call me a hater, yet those arent verses I adhere to and practice. I offer them up to review and to debate on your "Master Race" argument which is beyond laughable.

Goldhunter- I qualified Wikipedia, its owner, James Wales is a Zionist XXX Gay Pornographer & Owns Bomis. I qualified using them in my reference and did so because it was handy.
Most with a college education know our CIA was behind the Shah in Iran, & playing " Lets put a thug dictator into power" game. I can gladly cite another reference for that coup, if you like?

TALMUD was exposed in great detail by a Jew, Michael Hoffman, with whom Ive shared correspondence. He and the ADL have gone round & round a few times in court. Hes done a wonderful job.

Martin Luther also wrote a terrible hateful book known as "Jews & Their Lies" after they betrayed him when he broke from the church to Marry his love, betraying his sacrament & obligation of celibacy. I wont even list some of the passages, as I find them to be very maliciously hateful. You can research it yourself.
Nothing I said was heretical. Nothing. Ive got 1900 years of orthodoxy on my side, most of you have none.

Like to see you defend NAMBLA next. The North American ManBoy Love Association.. What do you say redbecca & Goldhunter?


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## Reddbecca

uglyman said:


> I listed them for redbecca who mentioned the "Masterrace" Nonsense. Sort of the pot calling the kettle black huh redbecca?


There's not much difference between Hitler's idea of a master race, and your belief of how the gay people should be murdered without so much as a trial or a chance to say goodbye to their families. You see them as unclean, unfit to live in our society because they're different and possibly pose as a source of undermining to our way of life and the integrity of our nation and that possibility alone is reason enough to eradicate them. I see a hatemongering, fearmongering person who hides behind Bible verses to quote by to try and make others see his view on things.

You make me sick! You see yourself as holier than though, that you're better than me or anyone else on this board simply because you can quote any section of the Bible in the drop of a hat. You preach the scripture that supports your stance on things but completely ignore the scripture that conflicts with what you claim to support. The Bible says to love they neighbor and forgive they enemy, the gay people are your enemy but you choose to hate them and that goes against the word of the Bible.

You are a hyporcite, a heretic, a heathen! You hate all that is different, you twist the Bible to support your beliefs and you pretend that it's alright because you claim to follow the word of God! You're no better than the father that beats his child with an iron and claims that he had no choice because the Bible commanded that he does so!


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## uglyman

NOw you make up fiction to tell me what I didnt say..

I stated Gays should be treated & were until 1973. If not successful, we banish them, quarantine them and/or, repeat offenders, should be murdered as commanded by God. Not me.. And I belive in a court date & Habeus Corpus, unlike BUsh & the Neo CONs.

We used to stand for Morality here, until the ACLU & ADL-formed in 1914 to protect a Jewish Pedophile & murderer, Leo Franks, got ahold of our judicial system.

They head that movement and that of the NAACP, or did, for many years. They like to piggyback on the hate laws and bills, working on one right now here. The PC bibles are on their way also. No mention of Homosexuals, Women or Jews.
Im sure youre pleased to know this..

Im not holier than thou, but a lowly sinner. I try, thats all I can say.
Interesting you call me a hypocrite & heretic but you defend Homosexuality, Sin & perversion. Now thats Talmudic Irony for you.


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## uglyman

Ill correct you again Redbecca..the bible is clear about Works with Faith.
In fact, the only time the words "BY FAITH ALONE" are used in the bible(LUKE) is when its Condemned.
Now I dont wish to debate Catholicism vs Protestantism but Im happy to.

(James 2:24) - "You see that a man is justified by works, and not by faith alone."

(Matthew 19:1617) - "And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" 17And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

NIV translates the erg- derivatives in Romans 2:6-7 differently: "God 'will give to each person according to what he has done (erga).' To those who by persistence in doing (ergou) good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life."


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## Reddbecca

> NOw you make up fiction to tell me what I didnt say..


I've made up nothing. Perhaps my comparisons of you to Hitler were extreme, but it's not like you've done anything to actually disprove them.



> I stated Gays should be treated & were until 1973. If not successful, we banish them, quarantine them and/or, repeat offenders, should be murdered as commanded by God. Not me.. And I belive in a court date & Habeus Corpus, unlike BUsh & the Neo CONs.


This reminds me of an old saying, "God makes no mistakes". God knows what he's doing when he's putting you on Earth, he knows what you'll be and how you'll turn out and what you'll do with your time on Earth and what you'll do to other people. He knows who will be gay, he knows who won't be, and he knows when you do and don't keep Him in your heart.

Just because somebody's gay doesn't mean that they should be put to death. You follow the extreme examples as held in Soddom and Gomorah and use them as a template for what all gay people are like, when in fact there are far more mild examples in existance.

In case you didn't know, NOBODY can abide by every single rule in the Bible, nobody can be perfect, so in the grand scheme of things nobody is any better than anybody else. So somebody's gay, so what? If somebody takes so much as a paperclip from somebody at work they're guilty of comitting the sin of stealing and are just as bad in the eyes of God as a gay man. But that's why God sent us His son and gave us the ability to earn forgiveness through asking for it.



> We used to stand for Morality here, until the ACLU & ADL-formed in 1914 to protect a Jewish Pedophile & murderer, Leo Franks, got ahold of our judicial system.


I don't support the ACLU, we clash on gun politics.

Also it's interesting that you bring up the subject of pedophiles, you being a member of the same religion that have a corner market on pedophilic priests. I won't stand by and agree with the killing of gay people for no reason, however I'm all for something fitting those scumbags. I support the notion of pedophile crucifictions!



> The PC bibles are on their way also. No mention of Homosexuals, Women or Jews.


Really? There's no mention of Mary anywhere in these new Bibles?



> Im sure youre pleased to know this..


I hate political correctness. Don't you dare assume for one minute that I'm in favor of laws that require everybody to be treated in a completely neutral setting so we don't possibly offend somebody in the slightest way possible.

I'm deeply offended by political correctness and all it stands for. I say it should be abolished! If political correctness seeks to create an atmosphere where nobody is offended or upset, then there should be an option for people who hate the neutrality of it all and want it gone! I'm being discriminated against!



> Interesting you call me a hypocrite & heretic but you defend Homosexuality, Sin & perversion.


I'm not in favor of killing hundreds of millions of people for no reason other than the fact that they're gay. I won't kill anyone unless I believe that I'm in immediate danger, or somebody else is and there's no other alternative except lethal force.

You speak of trials for those that're gay. How exactly will that work out, trying to decide if somebody is guilty or innocent because of their sexual preference amongst adults? What's next, trying to judge determine guilty or innocence based on being color blind?


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## cwoparson

Oh Bs, historians are not even sure what the original books were translated to when the Bible was first commissioned by the church. Most believe Hebrew was used with with a few chapters of the books of Ezra and Daniel recorded in Aramaic. The New Testament is thought to have been first written in Greek. You corrected nothing and you childish attempt to excuse yourself with saying it depends on what language a person is speaking is simply dumb. The New Testament has only 11 references to the word Hell with none explaining Hell as you would want everyone to believe. You corrected nothing. For some reason I don't think we are even talking about the same God. Your God sounds like one to avoid.


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## uglyman

Cwoparson...Newsflash
Jesus SPoke Aramaic, Hebrew & Greek. The Gospels were recorded y scribes i the langages of the time. From 1 language to another is difficult enough, let alone 3-4 times. 11 references in your watered down Bible.

Redbecca..Its interesting you bring up pedophilia.
The Catholic Church rate of incidence for this crime, is No worse than any other denomination and in fact, probably lower proportionately than in Judaism, those stories usually get buried & the Raabis flee extradition to Israel, but the media is on a Catholic witch hunt, the one time largest enemy of Jewry & the Talmud..

Bella Dodd, former head of the US Communist party, testified personally to the Senate to placing 1100 agents into the priesthood for this very subversion through infiltration. The enemies of the church have a long list of motives & tactics. But the media will not mention Such items.

This was a story you never heard. A Jewish Daycare owner & family, Molested 500 children, mostly boys. Got leniency by the system. See how the media works? Quite a double standard.. Another story of a Rabbi who molested & Shot a Grandma in Iowa. Got little air time.
http://judicial-inc.biz/freidman_pedoph ... m_hell.htm
http://judicial-inc.biz/k9_shot_a_grand ... lested.htm

Being gay isnt cause in itself for murder. 
Acting out on Gay impulses & committing Sin against God would be. This country used to stand for this, laws are still on te books, but put down a few decades ago. Youre product of the X "stand for nothing" generation.

From what I gather, Germany now controlled by "Them", has printed PC Bibles already. Not sure if Mary is mentioned, but "WOMEN" "JEWS" & "Homosexuals" are not. Part of the PC culture coming our way. 
Might offend someone. Facts be damned. Truth be damned.


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## Reddbecca

> The Catholic Church rate of incidence for this crime, is No worse than any other denomination


Maybe not, but the rate of report exceeds all others that I've seen. You almost never hear a story about a rabbi doing something like this, but a catholic priest is almost always in the news for molesting some little kid. And what does the church do with these bad boy priests? They move them to a new location. That means that church actually condones pedophilia otherwise they would've defrocked the sickos and had them sent to prison.



> This was a story you never heard. A Jewish Daycare owner & family, Molested 500 children, mostly boys. Got leniency by the system. See how the media works? Quite a double standard.. Another story of a Rabbi who molested & Shot a Grandma in Iowa. Got little air time.
> http://judicial-inc.biz/freidman_pedoph ... m_hell.htm
> http://judicial-inc.biz/k9_shot_a_grand ... lested.htm


I never said that all religions besides catholocism were perfect, I just said that the catholic church seemed to have the corner market on bad priests. Maybe they don't get as much as some Jews get, but they seem to be more prevelant in numbers, even today's younger priests that couldn't be members of those 1,100 communist agents.

It's also funny that you mentioned how we resemble Rome during the downfall, when your religion is known as Roman Catholocism.



> Being gay isnt cause in itself for murder.


Now just a minute! First you said all gay people should be stoned to death because they're eroding society and their very existance is an abomination to God and a crime against nature. Now you're saying that being gay in itself isn't grounds for murdering. Which stance are you actually promoting? Or are you talking out of both sides of your face like any politicans who's worth his weight in mud?



> Acting out on Gay impulses & committing Sin against God would be.


Gay impulses? An impulse is "A sudden wish or urge that prompts an unpremeditated act or feeling; an abrupt inclination". I highly doubt that an entire lifestyle that lasts as long as you life could be blamed on impulses.

You make it sound like gay people are prone to random acts of homosexual assault and are wild and uncontrollable beasts.



> This country used to stand for this, laws are still on te books, but put down a few decades ago. Youre product of the X "stand for nothing" generation.


Oh really? We had laws on the books that stated "an act of sodomy earns the death penalty"?



> From what I gather, Germany now controlled by "Them", has printed PC Bibles already. Not sure if Mary is mentioned, but "WOMEN" "JEWS" & "Homosexuals" are not. Part of the PC culture coming our way.
> Might offend someone. Facts be damned. Truth be damned.


So Eve and Mary are gonna be men now? Well the answer is to not buy bibles from Germany, problem solved!


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## cwoparson

> The Gospels were recorded y scribes i the langages of the time. From 1 language to another is difficult enough, let alone 3-4 times. 11 references in your watered down Bible.


It's the same one you're reading hotshot. Now the gospel that you are swearing by is watered down? Keep digging.


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## goldhunter470

> Being gay isnt cause in itself for murder.
> Acting out on Gay impulses & committing Sin against God would be.


Are you knocking on the inside of the closet door, ugly? Seems a pretty convenient out. You mentioned earlier in this thread that you "used to think like me. Justifying immoral behavior." Are you a cured homosexual? Do you still have those impulses but don't act on them? With all the hate that comes out of your mouth, you sure seem like a closet case to me.


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## uglyman

Im happily married..4 kids & working on more. 
Former Div 1 College Fullback, played with & against many pros. 
Involved in MMA last 10 years, Ive trained with top world class fighters. 
I ooze testosterone mi amigo.

cwoparson...Same Gospels? Obviously not..
There are 2 general philosophies translators use when they do their work: formal or complete equivalence and dynamic equivalence. Formal equivalence translations try to give as literal a translation of the original text as possible. Translators using this philosophy try to stick close to the originals, even preserving much of the original word order. 
If you intend to do serious Bible study, a literal translation is what you want. This will enable you to catch more of the detailed implications of the text, but at the price of readability. You have to worry less about the translators' views coloring the text, though even very literal translations are not free from this entirely.

Literal translations are an excellent resource for serious Bible study. Sometimes the meaning of a verse depends on subtle cues in the text; these cues are only preserved by literal translations.

The disadvantage of literal translations is that they are harder to read because more Hebrew and Greek style intrudes into the English text. Compare the following renderings of Leviticus 18:6-10 from the New American Standard Bible (NAS-a literal translation) and the New International Version (NIV-a dynamic translation):

The NAS reads: "None of you shall approach any blood relative of his to uncover nakedness. . . . You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father's wife; it is your father's nakedness. The nakedness of your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether born at home or born outside, their nakedness you shall not uncover. The nakedness of your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for their nakedness is yours."

The NIV reads: "No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. . . . Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father. Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere. Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you." 
For example, dynamic Protestant translations, such as the NIV, tend to translate the Greek word ergon and its derivatives as "work" when it reinforces Protestant doctrine but as something else (such as "deeds" or "doing") when it would serve Catholic doctrine.

Some Protestants will tell you that the only acceptable version of the Bible is the King James. This position is known as King James-onlyism. Its advocates often make jokes such as, "If the King James Version was good enough for the apostle Paul, it is good enough for me," or, "My King James Version corrects your Greek text."

They commonly claim that the King James is based on the only perfect set of manuscripts we have (a false claim; there is no perfect set of manuscripts; and the ones used for the KJV were compiled by a Catholic, Erasmus), that it is the only translation that avoids modern, liberal renderings, and that its translators were extremely saintly and scholarly men. Since the King James is also known as "the Authorized Version" (AV), its advocates sometimes argue that it is the only version to ever have been "authorized." To this one may point out that it was only authorized in the Anglican church, which now uses other translations. For a still-in print critique of King James-onlyism, see D. A. Carson, The King James Version Debate, A Plea for Realism (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1979).

What many advocates of both King James-onlyism and Douay-Rheims-onlyism do not know is that neither Bible is the original issued in the 1600s. Over the last 3 centuries, numerous minor changes (for example, of spelling and grammar) have been made in the King James, with the result that most versions of the KJV currently on the market are significantly different from the original. This has led one publisher to recently re-issue the 1611 King James Version Bible.


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## uglyman

Redbecca..if you were on a debate team, you had to be one of the worst.

The Roman Empire crumbled DUE to declining morality, the Church was Not influential. It was a pagan empire, fighting imperial wars, Long unwinneable Occupations, overstretched military, & uncontrolled immigration & deviance brought down Rome.

And Media not reporting Israeli or Jewish Crime proportionately? Boy, Imagine that...

My stance on homosexuality is very simple. I think its an abommination. Guilty of murder. Not that we should have a round up, but enforce the existing laws. However, those with such predispostitions arent worthy of capital punishment for them alone BUT for acting on them-Im not talking thought crimes but actual crimes. Just as we Chritians are to remain celibate before marriage so too should Gays Not be engaged in them let alone such deviant acts. If they are deviant then they should be punished. Biblically, my position is sound, always has been this way, until we became Gomorrah.

Yes, Gay people have generally hundreds of partners on average in comparison to heterosexuals having very few-. In some cases, It is anonymous..bath houses etc. Sickness. Perverted sickness.

Yes, Laws exist for serious punishment for Sodomy & Sickness. Not sure of capital punishment but Id be willing to be it is..Ill check


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## uglyman

Before 1859, Canada relied on British law to prosecute sodomy. In 1859, Canada repatriated its buggery law in the Consolidated Statutes of Canada as an offense punishable by death. Buggery remained punishable by Death until 1869.

USA Laws UNTIL the Liberals, ACLU, Communists & "J"s
took over:
The Post-Revolution Period, 1776-1873

In the years 1860 and 1861, what is now Colorado experienced a tumultuous period regarding sodomy. In 4 criminal codes within years, it changed from a common-law reception with a Death sentence, to returning to common-law reception with a life imprisonment sentence, and then a statutory ban on sodomy with a 1 year-life sentence.

The Colorado Territory originally was known as the Jefferson Territory and, in 1860, enacted a criminal code.1 The Jefferson Territory did not include a law against sodomy, but did recognize English common-law crimes.2 This made the Penalty for Sodomy Death, since it still was so under English law.

State laws at time of 2003 Supreme Court decision
U.S. Supreme Court decision Lawrence v. Texas (2003) invalidated anti-homosexual sodomy laws in the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico. At that time, the laws stood as follows:
Alabama - All sodomy acts illegal - affects only unmarried couples. [15] [16] Penalty = (1 year/$2,000) 
Alaska (repealed through legislative action 1980) 
Arizona (repealed through legislative action 2001) 
Arkansas - struck down by Jegley v. Picado, 80 S.W.3d 332 (Ark. 2001) 
California (repealed through legislative action 1976) 
Colorado (repealed through legislative action 1972) 
Connecticut (repealed through legislative action 1971) 
Delaware (repealed through legislative action 1973) 
Florida - All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (60 days/$500) 
Georgia - struck down by Powell v. Georgia, 510 S.E.2d 18 (1998) 
Hawaii (repealed through legislative action 1973) 
Idaho - All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (5 years to life) 
Illinois (repealed through legislative action 1962) 
Indiana (repealed through legislative action 1977) 
Iowa (repealed through legislative action 1978) 
Kansas - Same-Sex sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (6 months/$1,000) 
Kentucky - struck down by Commonwealth v. Wasson, 842 S.W.2d 487 (Ky. 1992) 
Louisiana - All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (5 years/$2,000) [17] 
Maine (repealed through legislative action 1976) 
Maryland - struck down by Williams v. State, 1998 Extra LEXIS 260, Baltimore City Circuit Court, January 14, 1999 
Massachusetts - struck down by GLAD v. Attorney General, SJC-08539 (Mass. Supreme Judicial Ct. 2002) 
Michigan - In Michigan Organization for Human Rights v. Kelley 1990, a trial court ruled Michigan's sodomy law unconstitutional under the state constitution. This ruling is believed to apply to all state prosecutors; however, due to the fact that the judge's decision has not yet been appealed, the current status of the law is unclear. [18] [19] (all sexes; felony punishable by up to 15 years imprisonment, repeat offenders get life) 
Minnesota - struck down by Doe v. Ventura, No. MC 01-489, 2001 WL 543734 (Minn. Dist. Ct 2001) 
Mississippi - All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (10 years) 
Missouri - Same-Sex sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (1 year/$1,000), then repealed through legislative action in 2006 [20] 
Montana - struck down by Gryczan v. Montana, 942 P.2d 112 (1997) 
Nebraska (repealed through legislative action 1978) 
Nevada (repealed through legislative action 1993) 
New Hampshire (repealed through legislative action 1975) 
New Jersey (repealed through legislative action 1979) 
New Mexico (repealed through legislative action 1975) 
New York - struck down by People v. Onofre, 415 N.E.2d 936 (N.Y. 1980) and repealed by the legislature in 2000. 
North Carolina - All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (10 years/discretionary fine) 
North Dakota (repealed through legislative action 1973) 
Ohio (repealed through legislative action 1974) 
Oklahoma - Same-Sex sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (10 years) 
Oregon (repealed through legislative action 1972) 
Pennsylvania - struck down by Commonwealth v. Bonadio, 415 A.2d 47 (Pa. 1980) and repealed by the legislature in 1995. 
Rhode Island (repealed through legislative action 1998) 
South Carolina - All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (5 years/$500) 
South Dakota (repealed through legislative action 1977) 
Tennessee - Struck down in Campbell v. Sundquist, 926 S.W.2d 250 (1996) 
Texas - Same-Sex sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = ($500) 
Utah - All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (6 months/$1,000) [21] 
Vermont (repealed through legislative action 1977) 
Virginia - All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (1-5 years) 
Washington (repealed through legislative action 1976) 
West Virginia (repealed through legislative action 1976) 
Wisconsin (repealed through legislative action 1983) 
Wyoming (repealed through legislative action 1977) 
District of Columbia (City Council repealed law in 1995; Congress did not veto repeal as it did the first time in 1981)

Most anti-sodomy laws in Western countries originated from a Christian world-view established from the bible. The Biblical book Leviticus defines sex between men as a crime that warrants capital punishment. 
The New Testament also Condemns Sodomy. The biblical book of Romans calls Sodomy "Unnatural", "degrading passions", "Indecent acts"(Romans 1:24-27)"Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 
For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever, for this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the women and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error." 1 Cor 6:9 says, "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God." 1 Timothy (1:9-10) calls Sodomy an act that Ungodly and sinners do.


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## goldhunter470

> Former Div 1 College Fullback, played with & against many pros.
> Involved in MMA last 10 years, Ive trained with top world class fighters.
> I ooze testosterone mi amigo.


So you have showered with hundreds of men and you like rubbing half naked against sweaty men? Sounds pretty gay to me man. You're self hatred is apparent. Ooze testosterone........ I won't even respond to that for fear of getting kicked off this site.



> Yes, Gay people have generally hundreds of partners on average in comparison to heterosexuals having very few-.


This is the most uninformed statement you have made to date. Gay people have HUNDREDS of partners? Heterosexuals having very few? You obviously haven't been in the dating pool in a LONG time.


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## uglyman

No, I dont like rubbing on men, I like Ju Jitsu, Im a head hunter & prefer to knock someone out or perform a Neck Choke.

What was that you said, Brainhunter?

Source: 2003-2004 Gay/Lesbian Consumer Online Census
· Bell and Weinberg, in their Classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43% of white male homosexuals had Sex with 500 or More partners, with 28% having 1000 or More Sex partners.[13]

· In The Sexual Organization of the City, University of Chicago sociologist Edward Laumann argues that "typical gay city inhabitants spend most of their adult lives in 'transactional' relationships, or short-term commitments of less than six months."[5]
· A study of homosexual men in the Netherlands published in the journal AIDS found that the "duration of steady partnerships" was 1.5 years.[6]

· In his study of male homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, Pollak found that "few homosexual relationships last longer than 2 years, with many men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners."[7]
· In Male and Female Homosexuality, Saghir and Robins found that the average male homosexual live-in relationship lasts between 2 and 3 years.[8]
Research indicates that the average male homosexual has Hundreds of sex partners in his lifetime:
· The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of 8 sexual partners per year.[12]


----------



## goldhunter470

And your reply predictably leaves out the hetero part. Very few? Come on. This isn't 1950 anymore where you date your highschool sweetheart and that's the only partner you ever have. Get your head out of the clouds. I know guys and girls who are straight that have more than 8 partners a year. Get real.

Brainhunter. That's a good one. Don't you have a shower with a bunch of naked men to get to?


----------



## Reddbecca

> Redbecca..if you were on a debate team, you had to be one of the worst.


I was actually kicked off my highschool debate team for saying to my opponent "Yeah, well f**k you!" he was speechless, I thought I'd won. I thought that was the result you were supposed to try and get, leave your opponent without a response, but apparently I went about it the wrong way.



> My stance on homosexuality is very simple.


Well if it is you sure can't explain it in a simple manner. Listening to you talk about your stance against gays is like listening to Bush when he tries talking about complex things and winds up tripping over his own tongue.



> Just as we Chritians are to remain celibate before marriage


Yeah lots of luck with that one too.

so too should Gays Not be engaged in them let alone such deviant acts.



> If they are deviant then they should be punished.


So you're all for punishing people that don't fit into the main group of things? You don't like people who are different? You must obviously hate all minority members too since they aren't part of the large group and are thus deviant by definition.



> Biblically, my position is sound, always has been this way, until we became Gomorrah.


And biblically it's sound to keep slaves from other nations, but unsound to wear blended fabrics, eat seafood or trim your facial hair. That means you can have mexicans working for you for nothing because you've given them no other choice, but you can't eat shrimp or wear denim jeans or shave your goatee.



> Yes, Gay people have generally hundreds of partners on average in comparison to heterosexuals having very few-.


Hold it right here! I refuse to stand for such insults being spewed from the likes of you! What makes you an expert on gay people anyway? How do you know what they do? Gay people don't have hundreds of partners for anonymous sex! Some might but there's a large percentage that have ONE single partner that they want to live their life with!

I'm sure if you look around you can find quite a few straights and Christians that have a lot of partners and enjoy good orgies.


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## Reddbecca

> Source: 2003-2004 Gay/Lesbian Consumer Online Census
> · Bell and Weinberg, in their Classic study of male and female homosexuality, found that 43% of white male homosexuals had Sex with 500 or More partners, with 28% having 1000 or More Sex partners.[13]


This is your basis for saying that gay people have hundreds of partners? An online census report? Where's the credibility? If this was done online then straight people could've signed up as gay people and lied about what it is that they do.

Then again, EXACTLY how many people were interviewed in this census? Was is 500,000? Maybe 5,000? Maybe 100? Maybe even just 10? Without numbers you don't have anything.



> · A study of homosexual men in the Netherlands published in the journal AIDS found that the "duration of steady partnerships" was 1.5 years.[6]


I know plenty of straight people who only have relationships that last two months or less.



> · In his study of male homosexuality in Western Sexuality: Practice and Precept in Past and Present Times, Pollak found that "few homosexual relationships last longer than 2 years, with many men reporting hundreds of lifetime partners."[7]


How many couples were involved in the study?



> · The Dutch study of partnered homosexuals, which was published in the journal AIDS, found that men with a steady partner had an average of 8 sexual partners per year.[12]


And prostitutes average hundreds of partners a year. What's your point?


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## uglyman

One survey, recently reported by the US government, concluded that men had a median of 7 female sex partners. 
Women had a median of 4 male sex partners. Another study, by British researchers, stated that men had 12.7 heterosexual partners and women had 6.5.

Copyright 2007 Boston Globe Newspaper Company.

Compare that to the Hundreds of Partners on average Homosexuals have, higher incidence of Suicide etc.
Homosexuality is a Sickness & Mental Perversion.


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## uglyman

Well, theres dense and then theres Recbecca

I cited 4 studies all with the Same results. 
Hundreds of partners. Even in "Monogamous" Gay couples there was an average of 8 partners,. Its a sickness.

The New Testament & Covenant has replaced the Old, dear...and shellfood, beards are no longer the norm. 
God has not waivered on this perversion of Homosexuality, however.


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## Reddbecca

If you keep saying gays have hundreds of partners in life, you're gonna soon have no more credibility than somebody that supports and believes in the Kellerman study.


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## uglyman

Red Becca..online polls are popular and fairly accurate. They are being used in political races my dear... I cited 4 stuides with Same reults. SOme online, some not.

Not sure how many responses, Id gather many took the poll.


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## Reddbecca

uglyman said:


> Red Becca..online polls are popular and fairly accurate. They are being used in political races my dear...
> 
> Not sure how many responses, Id gather many took the poll.


And many online poll holders say that their polls aren't scientifically accurate studies that can be used with any credibility.

When you come down to it an online poll is just the answer some anonymous face jotted down, probably just to have a laugh.


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## boondocks

uglyman said:


> Same sex couples should be outlawed, banned, arrested & have therapy, castrated or put to death. Biblically, this is sound-like it or not. .


Castrated or put to death?? Jesus never taught this.


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## cwoparson

mt?


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## uglyman

Boondocks..the teachings of the Bible, both Old & New Testament are very clear on Sodomy & Sin..and punishments-it was condemned by Paul in the 1st chapter..

1st Corinthians 6:9-10: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Romans 1:26-28: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

When Scripture says women changed the natural use into that which is "against nature", it carries a sexual connotation. The same holds true with men leaving the natural sexual use of a woman for a man!
The word "error" as used in the passage above, (plane {plan'-ay} in Greek, means:
one led astray from the right way
error, wrong opinion relative to morals or religion

Only in the last 100 years, when we've gone soft has this changed from the death penalty. The writing is on the wall for AmeriKa, we are essentially done, doomed & damned. 
How far we've come, the Founding Fathers warred over a 10% tea tax & believed in Freedom. We pay 50% aggregate tax now to Fed, state, Local, Fica, Soc Sec, Sales tax etc & tolerate Filth. 
We really havent won a war in the last 100 years & I think the end is probably near.

Russia has lived under Jewish Bolshevik Rule & know all about it..50 Million of their Christians were killed by them. China is also a 12,000 year old civilization. They are simply biding their time.
Isreal is the benefactor of war betwenn Christians & Muslims & Incited it..


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## Reddbecca

So basically what you're trying to say is that the entire world is going to hell in a handbasket. Everybody knows that already. Message received, no reply.


----------



## Gun Owner

uglyman said:


> Im happily married..4 kids & working on more.
> Former Div 1 College Fullback, played with & against many pros.
> Involved in MMA last 10 years, Ive trained with top world class fighters.
> I ooze testosterone mi amigo.


Just who are you trying to convince here? Us? or yourself?


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## uglyman

Take it or leave it, I dont care, not trying to convince anyone of anything But to a stupid remark. I have a nice All American Bowl Ring I sometimes wear, played against Deion Sanders & Florida State in 1987, among many others.

Heres a quick story on Disney Now selling Same Sex weddings. 
Notice Eisner-Not a Christian-takes over & the Companys enitre philosophy changes, for the worst
http://judicial-inc.biz/j.disney_sells_ ... iage_c.htm

http://judicial-inc.biz/7,16_gay_marria ... tem_at.htm

Did you know a Gay Jewish Porn star, Michael Lucas, performed a Live Gay sex show for the Israeli troops on 9/19/06 in Tel Aviv?
http://judicial-inc.biz/IDF_Snipers.htm


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## goldhunter470

This "guy" is hilarious. You all really need to check out his site he just linked. Columbine was caused by Jews. Virginia Tech was caused by Jews. Natalie Holloway was killed by Jews. Hurricane Katrina was caused by Jews. 9-11 was caused by Jews. College girls viewing porn is caused by Jews. The Holocaust never happened. Auschwitz was a country club for Jews. Jews Jews Jews. I didn't get my buck this fall. It had to have been the Jews' fault. When it gets really cold out and your car won't start....... call your boss and tell them it was a Jew. Because it probably was the Fairy Jew Mother causing your battery to go dead. Thank you, uglyman, for opening my eyes. I have a new reason to blame all of my short comings. You're my hero.


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## Gun Owner

Ya know, the more evidence I read, the more I think I want to convert to Judaism. I would then hold the power to control the world!

No longer would I be forced to wait at red lights, or stand in line behind christian devils at McDonalds. I could do as I please, and simply waive my six pointed badge at any who may question me and go along my merry way. I would of course become immedately wealthy beyond all your wildest dreams.

Ya know, I bet that trophy bucks would even kneel before me in the woods, yeilding to all my glory.

The best part is since the only people who know the "truth" about my agenda are insane crackpots, I could keep going forever!!!! HAHAHAHA

Eat your heart out Dr. Evil, I am Jewish!!! :stirpot:

To Paraphrase Jim Gold... "Oh its so nice to be a Jew....!"

Thank you Uglyman, Thank you for this gift of power and control I never thought possible!


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## boondocks

uglyman said:


> Boondocks..the teachings of the Bible, both Old & New Testament are very clear on Sodomy & Sin..and punishments-it was condemned by Paul in the 1st chapter..
> 
> 1st Corinthians 6:9-10: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
> 
> Romans 1:26-28: For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
> 
> When Scripture says women changed the natural use into that which is "against nature", it carries a sexual connotation. The same holds true with men leaving the natural sexual use of a woman for a man!
> The word "error" as used in the passage above, (plane {plan'-ay} in Greek, means:
> one led astray from the right way
> error, wrong opinion relative to morals or religion
> 
> Only in the last 100 years, when we've gone soft has this changed from the death penalty. The writing is on the wall for AmeriKa, we are essentially done, doomed & damned.
> How far we've come, the Founding Fathers warred over a 10% tea tax & believed in Freedom. We pay 50% aggregate tax now to Fed, state, Local, Fica, Soc Sec, Sales tax etc & tolerate Filth.
> We really havent won a war in the last 100 years & I think the end is probably near.
> 
> Russia has lived under Jewish Bolshevik Rule & know all about it..50 Million of their Christians were killed by them. China is also a 12,000 year old civilization. They are simply biding their time.
> Isreal is the benefactor of war betwenn Christians & Muslims & Incited it..


I also believe homosexuality is sin, but Jesus still never said to kill them or castrate them.


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## goldhunter470

Oh yeah. I almost forgot. Barry Sanders, Red Grange, Vince Lombardi, Babe Ruth, Santa Clause, The Tooth Fairy and I all played in a ping pong championship tournament last year. I was teamed with Genghis Kahn but we were upended by the team of Betty White and Bea Arthur. We got second place though, so I look at that trophy once in a while.


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## Reddbecca

uglyman said:


> Take it or leave it, I dont care, not trying to convince anyone of anything But to a stupid remark. I have a nice All American Bowl Ring I sometimes wear, played against Deion Sanders & Florida State in 1987, among many others.


It's usually those that're most eager to greet and please, and those who try and convince others about themselves the most are the ones who have the most to hide.

Ugly, you say you're happily married and have four kids. What better cover in the world to convince somebody, even yourself, that you're not gay?


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## goldhunter470

> Take it or leave it, I dont care, not trying to convince anyone of anything But to a stupid remark. I have a nice *All American Bowl Ring I sometimes wear, played against Deion Sanders & Florida State in 1987*, among many others.


All-American Bowl
Date played Winning team Losing team Attendance
December 31, 1986 Florida State 27 Indiana 13 30,000
*December 22, 1987 Virginia 22 Brigham Young 16 37,000*

You really have lost your mind. So was it 1987 or 1986 or did the Jews take over the NCAA and change all the records so they could make you look wrong?


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## uglyman

It was 1986 New Years Eve, Moron.. an evening game under the Lights in Birmingham, AL. You posted the game calendar, are you really that IQ deficient?

I played for IU under Bill Mallory, we played in many bowls-Peach Bowl the Following..

redbecca..Its not bragging if you did it. Ive done it. Probably more than most here, in many different venues.
My only vice is probably too much internet, I like combat sports, & a bad temper..I try but I was born this way..Otherwise, pretty normal, least imo.


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## goldhunter470

That would be 1986 then, you dolt. There is no way you even attended a college. Your organizational skills are atrocious. And I'll just say it: YOU'RE A LIAR LIAR PANTS ON FIRE!!!!!!!!


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## uglyman

It was New Years eve, thats what I just stated, Brainhunter.

Since you like Israel so much, heres a nice video of how neighborly they are towards Christians..& Journalists executed on the ground..Not sure why they felt need to shoot him. Drive journalists out to committ their Holocaust?


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## Gun Owner

hes using that same calendar that shows jews and muslims living in peace for 600 years longer than muslims have existed.

I gotta get me one of them, I'd never have a late bill payment again!


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## uglyman

I quoted the Bishop of Jerusalem, youre suffering from a rectal cranial inversion.

"Arab Palestinian Christians and Arab Palestinian Muslims lived side by side for the past 1400 years, and for anybody to say that the Arab Palestinian Christians have been persecuted recently by Muslims is absolutely another big Lie, like the big Lie that spoke of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq."
-- Riah Abu El-Assal, Christian Bishop of Jerusalem


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## goldhunter470

So New Years Eve is now the following year? And since you don't have a clue as to what you are lying about, I love Israel? Wow. This reminds me of those Netflix commercials. If Wednesday is 5 and Tuesday is 38, it makes it 5:30 on Friday!!!!!!!!!! DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!! Are you upset because they closed a rest area near your house?


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## uglyman

The game was 21 years ago. 
A Night game, big afterparty in the Birmingham streets that went on into the morning, so I call it 1987, after the 1986 season. Call it what you like. 
I have the Bowl Rings, you have none.

Judging by your photo its easy to see the effects of a small gene pool ...


----------



## goldhunter470

Sure you do. But I bet it was made my JEWS!!!!!!!!! It's evil!!!!!!!!! Watch out!!!!!!! It probably is made with lead!!!!!!!!

And yes. That's me. I put up a pic of my mug shot after I was caught flashing people on University Drive then having relations with that hot piece in the other pic. Even thought I don't have a criminal record. And the only mug shot I have is when I was 4 my dad, who ran the local jail, took my picture. You may ooze testosterone, but your brain must have preceded it.


----------



## Plainsman

I can't follow this anymore, my head is spinning in circles.

Anyway, there are some interesting points and some things to think about. However, this is turning into an argument with bad feelings and not a debate. There has been enough name calling, but I will not lock it if anyone cares to get back to the subject that started. That was global warming again.

No hard feelings at this point, but I don't want to keep going in this same direction. It is clear that no one is gong to change their mind so it's pointless. It can only go down hill from here if it keeps going in the same direction.


----------



## uglyman

My issue isnt with Jews per se, but with Zionists. Those that execute women, children & journalists as you saw in the posted video.

Those that Burned US Sailors alive using Napalm on them in the USS LIBERTY attack & tried to Lie about it. Youve never heard of that. Maybe the media has something to do with it?

Great success stories really. Here are the owners & those in influence.

The largest media conglomerate today is Walt Disney Company, whose chairman and CEO, Michael Eisner, is Jewish, & includes several TV production companies (Walt Disney Television, Touchstone Television, Buena Vista Television), its own cable network with 14 million subscribers, and two video production companies.

As for feature films, the Walt Disney Picture Group, headed by Joe Roth (also a Jew), includes Touchstone Pictures, Hollywood Pictures, and Caravan Pictures. Disney also owns Miramax Films, run by the Weinstein brothers, who have produced such ultra-raunchy movies such as The Crying Game, Priests, and Kids.

When the Disney Company was run by the Gentile Disney family prior to its takeover by Eisner in 1984, it epitomized wholesome, family entertainment. While it still holds the rights to Snow White, under Eisner the company has expanded into the production of graphic sex and gratuitous violence. In addition to TV and movies, the corporation owns Disneyland, Disney World, Epcot Center, Tokyo Disneyland, and Euro Disney.

ABC's cable subsidiary, ESPN, is headed by president and CEO Steven Bornstein, who is a Jew. ABC Radio Network owns 11 AM and ten FM stations, again in major cities such as New York, Washington, and Los Angeles, and has over 3,400 affiliates.

Although primarily a telecommunications company, Capital Cities/ABC earned over $1 billion in publishing in 1994. It owns seven daily newspapers, Fairchild Publications (Women's Wear Daily), Chilton Publications (automotive manuals), and the Diversified Publishing Group.

Time Warner, Inc., is the second of the international media leviathans. The chairman of the board and CEO, Gerald M. Levin, is a Jew. Time Warner's subsidiary HBO is the country's largest pay-TV cable network.

Warner Music is by far the world's largest record company, with 50 labels, the biggest of which is Warner Brothers Records, headed by Danny Goldberg. Stuart Hersh is president of Warnervision, Warner Music's video production unit. Goldberg and Hersch are both Jews.

Warner Music was an early promoter of "gangsta rap." Through its involvement with Interscope Records, it helped popularize a new genre whose graphic lyrics explicitly urge Blacks to commit acts of violence against Whites.

In addition to cable and music, Time Warner is heavily involved in the production of feature films (Warner Brothers Studio) and publishing. Time Warner's publishing division (editor-in-chief Norman Pearlstine, a Jew) is the largest magazine publisher in the country (Time, Sports Illustrated, People, Fortune).

Fox News is owned by Rupert Murdoch, his mother was an Orthodox Jew, Elizabeth Greene. The President of Fox is Peter Chernin, also Jewish.

Levin may soon be back as number-one media magnate if the planned deal with Turner Broadcasting System is completed. When Ted Turner, the Gentile media maverick, made a bid to buy CBS in 1985, there was a panic in media boardrooms across the nation. Turner had made a fortune in advertising and then had built a successful cable-TV news network, CNN. Although Turner employed a number of Jews in key executive positions in CNN and had never taken public positions contrary to Jewish interests, he is a man with a large ego and a strong personality and was regarded by Chairman William Paley and the other Jews at CBS as uncontrollable: a loose cannon who might at some time in the future turn against them. Furthermore, Jewish newsman Daniel Schorr, who had worked for Turner, publicly charged that his former boss held a personal dislike for Jews.

To block Turner's bid CBS executives invited billionaire Jewish theater, hotel, insurance, and cigarette magnate Laurence Tisch to launch a "friendly" takeover of the company, and from 1986 till 1995 Tisch was the chairman and CEO of CBS, removing any threat of non-Jewish influence there. Subsequent efforts by Turner to acquire a major network have been obstructed by Levin's Time Warner, which owns nearly 20 percent of CBS stock and has veto power over major deals.

If TBS merges with Time Warner, Levin will become Turner's boss, and CNN, the only rival to the network news, will come under complete Jewish control.

Viacom, Inc., headed by Sumner Redstone (born Murray Rothstein), is the third largest megamedia corporation in the country, with revenues of over $10 billion a year. Viacom, which produces and distributes TV programs for the three largest networks, owns 12 television stations and 12 radio stations. It produces feature films through Paramount Pictures, headed by Jewess Sherry Lansing.

Its publishing division includes Prentice Hall, Simon & Schuster, and Pocket Books. It distributes videos through over 4,000 Blockbuster stores. It is also involved in satellite broadcasting, theme parks, and video games.

Viacom's chief claim to fame, however, is as the world's largest provider of cable programming, through its Showtime, MTV, Nickelodeon, and other networks. Since 1989, MTV and Nickelodeon have acquired larger and larger shares of the juvenile television audience. Redstone, who actually owns 76& of the shares of Viacom ($3 billion), offers Beavis and Butthead as teen role models and is the largest single purveyor of propaganda to teenagers and sub-teens in America and Europe. MTV pumps its racially mixed rock and rap videos into 210 million homes in 71 countries and is the dominant cultural influence on teenagers around the world.

Nickelodeon has by far the largest share of the 4-to-11-year-old TV audience in America and also is expanding rapidly into Europe. Most of its shows do not yet display the blatant degeneracy which is MTV's trademark, but Redstone is gradually nudging the fare presented to his kiddie viewers toward the same poison purveyed by MTV.

With the top 3, and by far the largest, media conglomerates in the hands of them, it is difficult to believe that such an overwhelming degree of control came about without a deliberate, concerted effort on their part.

Most of the television and movie production companies that are not owned by the largest corporations are also controlled by Jews. For example, New World Entertainment, proclaimed by one media analyst as "the premiere independent TV program producer in the United States," is owned by Ronald Perelman, a Jew who also owns Revlon cosmetics. The chairman at New World, Brandon Tartikoff (formerly head of entertainment programming at NBC), is also a Jew.

The best known of the smaller media companies, DreamWorks SKG, is a strictly kosher affair. DreamWorks was formed in 1994 amid great media hype by recording industry mogul David Geffen, former Disney Pictures chairman Jeffrey Katzenberg, and film direction Steven Spielberg, all three of whom are Jews. The company produces movies, animated films, television programs, and recorded music. Considering the cash and connections that Geffen, Katzenberg, and Spielberg have, DreamWorks may soon be in the same league as the big three.

2 other large production companies, MCA and Universal Pictures, are both owned by Seagram Company, Ltd. The president and CEO of Seagram, the liquor giant, is Edgar Bronfman, Jr., who is also president of the World Jewish Congress.

Films produced by just the five largest motion picture companies mentioned above - Disney, Warner Brothers, Sony, Paramount (Viacom), and Universal (Seagram) - accounted for 74 percent of the total box-office receipts for the year to date (August 1995).

The big three in television network broadcasting used to be ABC, CBS, and NBC. With the consolidation of the media empires, these three are no longer independent entities. While they were independent, however, each was controlled by a Jew since its inception: ABC by Leonard Goldenson, CBS first by William Paley and then by Laurence Tisch, and NBC first by David Sarnoff and then by his son Robert. Over periods of several decades these networks were staffed from top to bottom with Jews, and the essential Jewishness of network television did not change when the networks were absorbed by other corporations. The Jewish presence in television news remains particularly strong.

CBS was recently purchased by Westinghouse Electric Corporation. Nevertheless, the man appointed by Laurence Tisch, Eric Ober, remains president of CBS News, and Ober is a Jew.

At NBC, now owned by General Electric, NBC News president Andrew Lack is a Jew, as are executive producers Jeff Zucker (Today), Jeff Gralnick (NBC Nightly News), and Neal Shapiro (Dateline).

http://www.natall.com/who-rules-america/


----------



## Reddbecca

Plainsman said:


> There has been enough name calling, but I will not lock it if anyone cares to get back to the subject that started. That was global warming again.


I thought the subject was dangerous people.

Ugly you say that you don't have hate in you, yet you seem to openly hate Jews, Zionists, gays, and anybody else that doesn't fit your cut of the Bible. You seem to hate basically everybody.

And besides that, the second somebody questions your orientation you feel so threatened that you have to deliver "evidence" that you're perfectly straight, like you're trying to convince yourself that you aren't gay.

You're rambling on about all manner of things, first it being how gays are some cult devoted purely to eroding the standards of America and bring us down, and now you're going on some rant about how the Jews are behind some massive conspiracy to control the entire F***in' world.


----------



## goldhunter470

Plainsman said:


> but I will not lock it if anyone cares to get back to the subject that started. That was global warming again.


I am against global warming.


----------



## Plainsman

That was bad grammar wasn't it. I should have said I will lock it if no one wants to get back to the original post. Dangerous people was the title, but not necessarily the subject. The subject was global warming.

Goldhunter I'm against it too  , but I don't think we will stop it. The most important thing is I don't want to bankrupt this nations trying to stop something that we can not, or that is simply a natural phenomenon. Just so the snow stays around North Dakota to chase coyotes and I'll be ok.

Gold hunter , I'll be optimistic and unlock it temporarily just for you.


----------



## cwoparson

This is kind of long but what hasn't been in this thread. Anyway it kind of puts things in a different perspective.

"While today's balance between the icecaps and global sea level has been relatively steady since about 1000 B.C., it would be careless to assume that this is the Earth's natural state and that it should always be this way. What could happen to climate naturally in the next few thousand years? If the Earth continued to warm and break from ice age conditions, some of the remaining ice caps could melt. On the other hand, climate might swing back into another ice age. (In fact, some of the environmentalists now worried about global warming were worried about another ice age in the 1960s and 1970s.)

In either case, such a change in climate would take thousands of years to accomplish. Note that it has taken 18,000 years to melt 60% of the ice from the last ice age. The remaining ice is almost entirely at the north and south poles and is isolated from warmer weather. To melt the ice of Greenland and Antarctica would take thousands of years under any realistic change in climate. In the case of the East Antarctic Ice Sheet, which accounts for 80% of the Earth's current ice, Sudgen argues that it existed for 14,000,000 years, through wide ranges in global climate. The IPCC 2001 report states "Thresholds for disintegration of the East Antarctic ice sheet by surface melting involve warmings above 20° C... In that case, the ice sheet would decay over a period of at least 10,000 years." [31] The IPCC is the United Nations' scientific committee on climate change; its members tend to be the minority that predicts global warming and its statements tend to be exaggerated by administrators before release. Given that the IPCC tends to exaggerate the potential for sea level rise, it is clear that no scientists on either side of the scientific debate on global warming fear the melting of the bulk of Antarctica's ice. Consider also this abstract of an article by Jacobs contrasting scientific and popular understanding:

A common public perception is that global warming will accelerate the melting of polar ice sheets, causing sea level to rise. A common scientific position is that the volume of grounded Antarctic ice is slowly growing, and will damp future sea-level rise. At present, studies supporting recent shrinkage or growth depend on limited measurements that are subject to high temporal and regional variability, and it is too early to say how the Antarctic ice sheet will behave in a warmer world. [32]

This statement alludes to the significant point that the Antarctic ice cap appears to currently be growing rather than shrinking. In fact, were the climate to warm significantly in the next few centuries (not a certain future, but supposing it happened), current models suggest that Antarctica would gain ice, with increased snowfall more than offsetting increased melting.

How much concern should we have about the 20% of world ice outside the East Antarctic Ice Sheet? Some sources have recently discussed the "possible collapse" of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS). It is suggested that this sheet (about 10% of Antarctic ice) could melt in the "near term" (a usefully vague phrase) and raise sea level 5 to 6 meters. Current understanding is that the WAIS has been melting for the last 10,000 years, and that its current behavior is a function of past, not current climate. [23] The abstract of an article by Alley and Whillans addresses this:

The portion of the West Antarctic ice sheet that flows into the Ross Sea is thinning in some places and thickening in others. These changes are not caused by any current climatic change, but by the combination of a delayed response to the end of the last global glacial cycle and an internal instability. The near-future impact of the ice sheet on global sea level is largely due to processes internal to the movement of the ice sheet, and not so much to the threat of a possible greenhouse warming. Thus the near-term future of the ice sheet is already determined. However, too little of the ice sheet has been surveyed to predict its overall future behavior. [34]

Similarly, recent stories have periodically appeared concerning the potential receding of the Greenland ice cap. Two points may be made regarding current understanding here. First, there is considerable disagreement as to the current rate of net ice cap loss--or even if there is net loss versus net gain. Second, even with temperature increases far greater than the dubious predictions of the IPCC, models indicate that Greenland's ice cap would take 2,000 to 10,000 years to disappear.

Some discussion of the concerns about near term sea level rise may be found in Facts and figures on sea level rise. The predictions that have been made for ice cap melting in the next century rely mostly on melting of glaciers in mountain regions, not melting of the polar ice caps. Even the pessimistic models cited by the IPCC tend to predict an increase in the volume of the Antarctic ice cap with warmer temperatures due to increased snowfalls. In general temperature changes of a few degrees do not seem to be sufficient to begin to melt the polar ice caps, particularly the Antarctic ice cap."

I read a article just recently that the polar ice cap actually gained ice in 2007. If I can find it I'll post the source.


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## uglyman

My take on it is this..

The earth is warming, this is a fact.
The question is whether this is a natural cycle or man made. Jury is out but I think it is natural.

Too much Hype over this, leads me to question those (read Gore & co) that want more Govt, More taxing, More programs to "save us" from ourselves.


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## goldhunter470

I appreciate your warm heart and open mind Plainsman!! :beer:

Global warming is happening. There are roughly 100 years of scientific data to prove it. I also realize this is but a blink of an eye in geological terms but it's really all we have to go on. Whether it is caused by man or just another cycle of the natural world is debatable. The apparent jump in temperature in recent history could very easily lead someone to conclude it is caused by man. It's just too bad that politics gets in the way too often.

I have read somewhere that even if we took every vehicle off the road today, it wouldn't make much difference. Something like 80% of greenhouse gases are created by buildings. It is going to take some very out of the box thinking to cure this "problem". For years we have relied upon burning things to create energy. I have a feeling that is going to have to change, but that change will be created by folks a hell of a lot smarter than me!!


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## cwoparson

I don't see how that could be so as 95% of greenhouse gas comes from water vapor alone. The remaining 5% is made up of carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, and CFC's. Carbon Dioxide (CO2) which is a natural gas itself makes up the bulk (about 3.6%) of the remaining 5%. When everything is said and done, mans total contribution to greenhouse gases is estimated to be about 0.28%. Man contributes approximately 0.117% of the CO2 with methane gas (CH4) second at 0.066%. I think most of the latter comes from this board and in particular this thread. :lol:


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## Reddbecca

So it's on to global warming now...

Even if we didn't have global warming to worry about, which we would even if we never had cars, because all us mammals breathing and making carbon dioxide, and farting and making carbon monoxide really adds up, this planet was never stable to begin with.

The stuff I saw in my geologic science classes showed that this planet is a writhing mass of pressure and constant shifting and changes. Land masses are moving slowly but surely, the stress is destroying mountains and land areas. Volcanoes are erupting and sending ash and deadly gasses into the atmosphere and adding to the greenhouse effect, etc. This planet would destroy itself even if we never existed, all we're doing is speeding up the process by maybe a couple hundred years.


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## Csquared

CWO......your last post deserves TWO BEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :beer: :beer:


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## DecoyDummy

This is actually a re-post of something I posted once before on this forum ... but it fits in I guess.

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I have heard several times lately that the rise in CO2 is the symptom of global warming NOT the cause of "Global Warming."

Point being that it happens during every warming cycle over earths history.

Obviously I'm no scientist ... but it seems to me that if it's true that CO2 in the air elevates as moisture in the air increases ... What are the effects of more moisture in the air ... (I can tell you for certain that warm air holds more moisture than cold air).

Does the climate become warmer and moister??

Do things over time become more "Tropical" in nature ...

Does that mean more vegetation??

If it does ... CO2 is one of the food sources of Vegetation.

I don't know much, but I know simple common sense leads me to wonder about what some folks say.

Memory tells me CO2 is something in the 300 (plus) PPM range ...

BTW, CO2 might be considered a pollutant by some "Human Beings" ...

however, Plants like CO2 closer to 1000 PPM.

Could it be that higher Temps ... higher Moisture Levels ... higher CO2 Content ... simply make earth more "Plant Friendly" over the duration of this climate cycle??

And just when them damn plants become so plentiful and greedy that think they can take over the world ...

They will starve their own CO2 and moisture resources creating too much oxygen and face "Plant made Global Cooling" ...

And with it a slow agonizing DEATH??

Just a thought form where I sit.


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