# Coyotes not coming close enough



## OSUcoyoter (Nov 12, 2006)

I just recently bought a Johnny Stewarts PreyMaster digital caller and I went on my first coyote hunt yesterday. Within 3 minutes of turning the call on we had 4 coyotes come to about 500 yards from us. They never came any closer. We were well hidden and sent free. I kept repeating the 60 second digital sounds for about 10-15 minutes. Since the coyotes just marked their territory and turned around we decided to move spots. We went about a mile away and began calling and we had 5 coytes come between 300-500 yards. They never came any closer. Could the problem have been that I repeated to calls for up to 15 minutes? I need some advise on how long to play the calls, rest time between them, and how to get them within 200 yards. I have been using the distressed cottontail and juvenile cottentail. The call has pleading chicken, distressed gobbler, distressed rodent, baby cottontail, fawn bleat, coyote barks/howls, and a few more. I hunt on the prarie around a bunch of graising horses. Please help! Thank you!


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

You may have been well hidden, but you were not scent free from a coyotes nose when he gets downwind. 
Don't turn your caller on and off, turn it on and leave it on, don't mess with it. Stick with the rabbit calls and make 10 to 15 minute stands in coyote country.
If the coyotes are hanging up and won't respond , try one long lone howl. If that don't work, go someplace else and hunt, don't wast your time on coyotes that know how to play the game.


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

This will happen to you several more times before you learn how to read a coyotes body language. It's all part of the long prosess of becomming a good and knowledgable coyote hunter. There's really no way around it accept to not get too discouraged and keep hunting. Every time you have a coyote come to the call it will be a learning experience. The more you pay attention to every coyote encounter, the quicker you'll get better at it. If you're a slow learner, then you will struggle.

Buy as many coyote hunting videos as you can get your hands on, and study them religiously. I love the Randy Anderson vids but there are many good ones out there. This is a great way to learn to read the coyotes body language, what certain calls mean, when to use certain calls, and also when and how to stop the animal for the shot.

Also if you are shooting a rifle. Learn to use it to it's affective range and it's full potential. 300yds isn't a tough shot at all to a trained shooter.

Good luck and keep at'em :wink:


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

Danny B said:


> Don't turn your caller on and off, turn it on and leave it on, don't mess with it.


I could'nt disagree more with this comment. Esspesially hunting in tighter cover. The trick to coyote hunting is to see them before they see you. If you leave your caller on and you have one sneak in, he'll see you, bust you and exit before you know he's even there. Like I said earlier, buy some videos and learn from those guy's. I've never seen any of them leave their caller on full time durring a set, nor have I ever heard of a succesfull coyote hunter claim that the caller needs to stay on full time.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Hummm, if I was a new guy on the block, I'd be asking who's been around and killed 500 or a 1000+ coyotes, then I'd ask for pics as proof.

Internet experts are a dime a dozen and that's a fact......When you give out expert info, you need to have some kind of background.

I'd like to see some of your's Bloodyblinddoors and I'm not trying to be disrespectfull, just trying to be honest.....What is your background?


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Internet experts are a dime a dozen and that's a fact


That's a fact............. but I don't see where he claimed to be a expert. Why should he have to prove anything to you or anyone else around here. He simply stated his opinion and his opinion has the same value as yours or mine. Seems like every time someone has a opinion different than your opinion on predator hunting, you want a list of qualifications as if everyone must pass your approval before posting. It is humorous though that someone that has been around a whole 5 months thinks of themselves as the old guy on the block......and he as the new guy on the block. Personally I Think he has a point. I've never seen anyone just turn a caller on and leave it running. Each situation is different and you should know that. Besides, the PreyMaster does not have loop capabilities. There is no continuos play on it. It's made that way for a reason.


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## fingerz42 (Aug 13, 2006)

Danny you jump on that "i'm an expert and you're a doofus" line to much.. chill danny.. he just has a different opinion than you.. does thta make him wrong? No.. does it make you wrong? No.. so just let opinions differ and dont get so upset.. OKAY we all know you have killed millions of coyotes.. maybe more.. but let people hunt different ways than you.. why is that so wrong.. in predator hunting is their really a RIGHT or WRONG way..? Not really.. so let him think his way and you think yours.. YOU are the one coming off as the internet know it all Danny.. Dont get so upset on your replys.. take a sec.. and just explain yourself.. dont get all ******..


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## wyogoose (Feb 11, 2006)

I will agree with Bloodyblindoors on this one. I hunt coyotes tear round as a job and have killed more than I can count. I never leave my call none stop through a stand. I call for one minute, sit for three and repeat this for 15-20 minutes getting louder each time. Sometimes about half way throught the stand I will switch calls. I believe that leaving you caller on is one of the worst things you can do. Also, when you see a dog shut of your caller and lip squeek him the rest of the way if need be. If he looses interest, start coyote barking and howling at him. Another tip is to loose the cottontail call and go to something different every now and then. Good luck


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## OSUcoyoter (Nov 12, 2006)

Thank you guys for the tips. I went out this morning and killed 3 coyotes by leaving the call on for 1 minute and resting for 3 minutes. Having a coyote run within 50 yards is a huge rush almost like a trophy buck coming in bow range.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

fingerz42 your right it's only an opinion, sorry Bloddyblindoors. I get all hung up trying to help people sometimes and I forget about the real subject.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

You've gotten some good advice here and some bad advice, only trial and error will show you what is legitimate.  One thing that stands out in my mind is how some of the guys giving you advice were all "nippy" when I questioned their tactics several months ago... something tells me they didn't know squat then and they don't know squat now. Lord knows they don't HAVE to defend anything they post- just ask them.

Two things I noticed about your situation... First, you were not scent free. There is no such thing when dealing with a creature that smells in parts per BILLION. Always play the wind accordingly.

Secondly, in the open ground that you described it is not uncommon to have coyotes shy away at what they feel is a safe distance. I would consider a few of these options.

ONE- learn to shoot 500 yards... which is something I'm not capable of either but many are and it increases their kills substantially.

TWO- try a decoy. This will sometimes spike their curiousity and draw them the rest of the way in, I like to use decoys in situations where they are VERY visible.

THREE- get between the sound source and the incoming coyote. If your ecaller is capable of 100-200 yard remote ranges you should try to put it behind you as this is a very succesful method for me in WIDE OPEN ground.

The internet is a strange creature, be very leary of those who give advice then spend hours explaining why they don't have to explain it. Dead coyotes lie nowhere but on the ground- credible advice is priceless in the game of calling coyotes.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

......DEAD COYOTES LIE NOWHERE BUT ON THE GROUND........

The first picture is 27 coyotes taken in about a day and a half of hunting, year was 1981.

The next picture has 24 coyotes a bobcat and a badger in one night, year was 1977.

The last little picture is 8 coyotes taken last year 2005 in a morning of local hunting.

.....Credible advice is out there for those who want to listin.....


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Beware of the guy who can shoot the tail off of a coyote! LOL 

Danny, where are the coyote bodies in that bottom photo? Do you guys keep your fur or what do you do? In that top picture are those rolled up hides then? Those are some pretty impressive numbers for individual hunts. Thanks for sharing!


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Fallguy, those are all tails, "we stopped doing that years ago".. During state competition hunts years back all we did was bring back tails as a proff of kill. We didn't play for money back then, just braging rights and trophies was all. The 8 coyotes from last year in the bottom pic were cased.

I only posted those pictures to let some of the hunters know I'am credible as is some of my advice. 
No I'm not an expert, but I have been doing this for some 42+ years. I enjoy helping others, I kind of went off the wall a few post back and I'm sorry for that. 
You can take me for what I'm worth guys, I want to help if I can.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> be very leary of those who give advice then spend hours explaining why they don't have to explain it.


Yeah, and that goes double for those that declare themselves experts then claim no one knows anything but themselves, then they in turn spend hours explaining how only they know how it is really done. Funny how OSU turned right around and went out and took three dogs by simply taking the advice of one of those know nothing hunters. I don't think a real hunter needs or even wants to go out of his way to constantly pat themselves on the back or spend more time trying to impress everyone around them. Funny how people like that never realize just how transparent they really are. Even funnier is the only person to challenge someone's credibility is the only person now trying to prove their own credibility when their credibility was never questioned in the first place. Odd huh..........



> THREE- get between the sound source and the incoming coyote.


Sounds like a good way to be winded to me. Wouldn't a better choice be to place the sound cross wind so you could intercept the coyote as he circles to wind the source of the sound? Not being a expert and all I'm just curious.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Yeah, that's odd.


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## fingerz42 (Aug 13, 2006)

Lets not turn this into a battle guys.. This is a great forum and its good to hear from the normal joes and the guys that know alot about it.. i equally take into account what works for everyone.. Lets not bust Danny.. He's just trying to help us.. he just has a STRONG opinion of his ways.. you cant blame him for that.. it has worked for him for many years.. and thats the way he has gotten all his yotes.. every hunter hunts differently.. but for him thats what worked and he is just trying to help us.. He's just defending HIS hunting style that he knows works for him.. and again, you cant blame him.. he may come off strong sometimes but he really only does it to help.. I too sometimes thinks he comes off strong.. but lets not hold it against him.. I'm sure hes a great hunter.. his ways may just be different than someone else.. Like they say, in predator calling there really isnt a BEST way to hunt them.. just different TECHNIQUES


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

fingerz42, you're absolutely right and I really wasn't trying to ping on Danny although I can see how that may have looked that way. I've actually picked up some good tips from Danny. My only real point was no one should have to defend themselves or offer up qualification just because they offered a opinion on something that worked for them. Danny if you thought I was tail gating you I apologize.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Gohon said:


> Sounds like a good way to be winded to me. Wouldn't a better choice be to place the sound cross wind so you could intercept the coyote as he circles to wind the source of the sound? Not being a expert and all I'm just curious.


Well from the sound of his symptom, one most midwestern callers have encountered, it seems the coyote isn't circling at all. In order to be winded the coyote would have to come in between you and the sound source... and that means the coyote approached to within 100 yards in plain sight without you shooting him. All of a sudden a coyote that wouldn't commit to under 500 yesterday is going to slip in under radar and bust you at 100 today??? Come on, your using those internet hypothosis again.

Gohon, the rest of your post is the most mummbled mess I've ever seen. Your advice here is narrow minded and ill-experienced... as always... but it never stops you from typing. I'll now jump back to more of your misleading hype.

The preymaster is made the way it is for a reason, cost efficiency, it's a cheap piece of equipment and honestly produces like one. A caller worth it's salt will play continuosly and 20 minutes of solid sound will kill many many coyotes. The sound loops, sound quality and remote deficiencies of the JS Preymaster make it a hard one to kill coyotes with consistantly- anything can happen... but to say the thing has 60 second soundloops because that is an effective way to kill coyotes is obserd. Ask Gerald Stewart, he'll tell you the most effective unit they made was the 612 which ran tapes and played constant sound for 30 minutes per side.

The stuff about "Seeing a coyote before it sees you" is contradictory as the continous sound keeps an incoming predator keyed on that sound source. It watches that sound and it circles that sound. Silence and breaks in the sound will allow him to research the area more. I'm not saying I don't use silence and sound breaks, I'm just saying the people giving you advice are making some of this stuff up on the fly.

Bloodyblindoutdoors needs to find a succesful coyote hunter and talk to him instead of watching so many movies. The art of video editing leaves out all the tricks, technique and honestly the "Simplicity" to killing coyotes. Many of Randy Andersons coyotes are killed with constant sound... hope that doesn't burst a bubble. Stop a coyote by stopping the sound source or giving a soft WOOF with your voice. Stop a coyote when you can shoot it. No bells and whistles there, kinda melodramatic to make it sound simple huh?


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Many of Randy Andersons coyotes are killed with constant sound... hope that doesn't burst a bubble.


Doesn't burst my bubble at all.............. I've got 4 of Anderson's tapes and he doesn't use constant sound in any of them. Pretty simple really............ he uses mouth calls only in all of them. Place yourself between the caller and the predator, turn the caller on and just leave it running............ sure thing. That is your method and maybe it works for you. Not for me and apparently not for others.



> and that means the coyote approached to within 100 yards in plain sight without you shooting him.


Nice try but if the caller is 100 yards behind you and the coyote comes in behind the caller he will first of all be a couple hundred yards behind you and (1) wind you, (2) be behind and out of sight the entire time, and (3) laugh all the way over the hill at the yo-yo that kept twisting his head to look behind himself. You think the coyote will just circle in plain sight....... not around here.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

For a guy from Oklahoma you seem to be lost on the concept of PLAINS. If he's hunting a prarie he is likely seeing coyotes standing at ranges of 400-500-600 yards in any direction, everything is PLAIN SIGHT. If coyotes routinely circled downwind, out of sight, you would NEVER kill a coyote. Their sense of smell could detect you at nearly a MILE- it just doesn't work that way. The lack the ability to structure logic and also rely heavily on a sound cone the same way they do a scent cone. My theories aren't just words typed, I know you hate to talk about credibility Gohon but I have fresh blood on my tailgate that didn't come from doing things WRONG.

Like I said, Randy Anderson has a wonderful editing software just like the rest of us making videos. He does not solely use handcalls on every stand, and he does use a considerable amount of constant sound. Every seasoned predator caller has killed a fair share of coyotes with CONSTANT sound- again it's not something I do on a regular basis but it can be very effective. To laugh at the concept of constant sound just shows you have have little experience and no serious background at consistantly calling coyotes. Stop watching so many videos and typing up half-baked theories... go hunting and put your own advice to the test.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> To laugh at the concept of constant sound just shows you have have little experience and no serious background at consistantly calling coyotes. Stop watching so many videos and typing up half-baked theories... go hunting and put your own advice to the test.


Aw yes............... back to your old self of several months ago with the I know it all attitude I see. If you think the plains are endless stretches of perfectly flat terrain then you are the one that needs to get their head out of the darkest place of their body. You are the one who said on 7/30/06 "I don't know anyone that uses these forums as a one way street... to push their own superiority on anyone else. Conflicting results from using a tactic are what make it better in the long run... like calling crosswind/downwind/upwind. One guy has had great luck his way, another wonderful luck his way", and then you turn around with a jackass posts like this. Really impressive................not.


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

I think what we have here are a bunch of experienced coyote callers who's own tactics work in their own terain. But will probly be much less effective in another type of terain.

So I think what we need to do is consider the type of terain the person who is asking the question, Is actually hunting in before we answer.

Another thing too is that in some parts of the U.S. Coyote populations are nearly out of control, making for easier calling, and in other parts of the U.S. there are more coyote callers than actual coyotes, making for an entire population of educated coyotes..........Just somthing to think about.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Gohon, no problem. Like fingerz42 said, I'm here to help if I can. I'm old and cranky sometimes, that goes along with age I hear. You younger guys need to try and put up with me if you can, I ain't all that bad.....

I just entered an on line coyote contest at the FoxPro site, some of you guys may want to give it a try this year. They give out some really nice prizes, last year everybody won something.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> I'm old and cranky sometimes, that goes along with age I hear.


yep............. it sure does..... :lol: At 63 I can testify to that one.


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## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

Bloodyblinddoors said:


> and in other parts of the U.S. there are more coyote callers than actual coyotes, making for an entire population of educated coyotes..........Just somthing to think about.


 uke:


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Gohon, me too....3/5/43...You?


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

10/4/43............... you old fart. Hell I still have dreams of Annett Funichello when she wore mouse ears........ :lol:


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## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

Bloodyblinddoors said:


> .
> 
> Another thing too is that in some parts of the U.S. Coyote populations are nearly out of control, making for easier calling, and in other parts of the U.S. there are more coyote callers than actual coyotes, making for an entire population of educated coyotes..........Just somthing to think about.


Bloodyblinddoors, Jrbhunter doesn't think coyotes can get educated. :wink:


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

boondocks said:


> Bloodyblinddoors, Jrbhunter doesn't think coyotes can get educated. :wink:


I guess not...


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