# what calibre



## Albertahunter (Oct 25, 2005)

im 14 and getting mi first centre fire for hunting. i will mostly be hunting white-yail and mule deer, but moose and elk when i get draws. range is anywhere from 20 yards to 500. what would be a good calibre shoice for me?


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

300 Win Mag, 300 Short Win Mag, 300 ultra short Win Mag., 300 Reminington mag, 300 Remington ultra Mag and my Personal favorite would be the 300 Remington short action ultra mag (very lite recoil), that will take all the animals you listed up to and over 500 yards.


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## Albertahunter (Oct 25, 2005)

it will be mi first highpower so i dont kno if i can take that much recoil. i have shot 20 guage with 2 3/4 inch, that is the biggest gun i have shot.


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## steve66 (Apr 14, 2006)

30-06 is probably your best bet it is a little under powered for 500 yard shots at moose but it would still take it down. it will still kick hard the first few times but you will get used to it.

30-06 will take down anything in north america but wouldnt suggest it if you were going grizzlie hunting but im sure many grizlies are taken with it.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

steve66 said:


> 30-06 is probably your best bet it is a little under powered for 500 yard shots at moose but it would still take it down. it will still kick hard the first few times but you will get used to it.
> 
> 30-06 will take down anything in north america but wouldnt suggest it if you were going grizzlie hunting but im sure many grizlies are taken with it.


The 30-06 is an outstanding round however the 300 Remington Short action ultra mag has less recoil than the 30-06, and will take out that Moose at 500 yards.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

You can also get the 300 Rem Ultra Short Mag in a AR-10T Ultra. Even less kick.

Chuck Norris once went to a frat party, and proceeded to roundhouse every popped collar in sight. He then drank three kegs and **** on their floor, just because he's Chuck Norris.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Given that you're 14, this will be your first center fire rifle, and the game you intend to pursue, I too recommend you look at the 30-06. It's extremely versatile, accurate, and ammunition is not expensive. This means you can shoot a lot of practice. The more you practice, the better prepared you'll be come Fall.

Normally I agree with ABBK's opinions, but I have to respectfully disagree with him here. The 30 cal magnums, particularly the 300 Remington Ultra Magnum, are not beginner's rifles. I own a 300 RUM and like it a lot, but it's a very specialized rifle. It's also a rifle I could not have effectively handled at 14.

You have to take into consideration ammunition cost and availability, as well. The 30 cal mags, particularly the Short Action and RUM stuff, are pretty darn pricey and may not be readily available in Red Deer, Alberta.
I bet you can get 30-06 there, though.

My last piece of advice is to always use a rest and hold your hunting shots to 200-250 yards max. You will be surprised how far that is when you actually start practicing at those ranges. 500 yards is a long ways to shoot at a game animal, particularly given your lack of experience...


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

If you are mainly looking at whitetail and mule deer why not get O'Conners tried and true .270? It was designed as a long range deer rifle. But for moose at 500 yards I would not feel comfortable with anything less than a .300 Win Mag. Why not keep your moose shots under 250 yards and buy the exetremely versitale .30-06.


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## mburgess (Aug 11, 2003)

ought six


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## Albertahunter (Oct 25, 2005)

i said 500 yards because the really only place i would take them would be mule deer hunting on the praires. and i also would more than likely not be taking a 500 yard shot until i become more skilled with mi gun. i just want to have a gun for further down the road that is capable of long range hunting. i'm personally leaning to a 7mm mag because i go elk hunting every year otherwise i would get a 270


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## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

Hmm...would .308 handle a moose at more, shall we say, reasonable ranges? I only bring it up because out of all the cartridges mentioned, it's probably the cheapest and most versatile. I agree with NDT's evaluation of the short magnums...the recoil is fairly significant, even on the most finely-balanced of guns, and the price of both the rifle and the ammunition is rather high. And considering the fact that you'll want to practice quite a bit before taking to the field, well, the short mags, however appropriate for the situation, will probably be cost-prohibitive.

.308, on the other hand--and I'm assuming .30-06, I've never personally used it--is much cheaper. There's also a much wider selection of ammunition available for it, so there's definately going to be a decent whitetail/mule/moose load available locally.

Finally, when I was 14, I don't think I would have had any problem dealing with .30-cal, even the stiff, biting recoil of a bolt-gun. Granted, at 14, I was shooting practical pistol league meets with my dad, happily banging away with a .45ACP Glock and a .38+P S&W revolver all night, but still...

...oh, and then there's weight. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that the short magnum rifles are all a little heavier. If you're going to be packing up and down the prairies all day, that can be an issue. And if you're going to pack all up and down the prairies for the better part of a day, and then shoulder the rifle to make even a 200-yard shot, you'll really feel the extra weight. I'd go for a gun in the 8-8.5 pound range, but lighter would be better, depending on your own weight and level of physical fitness. If you're on both the varsity cross-country team and a defensive lineman on the gridiron, pay no mind to me and my skinny-boy weight concerns.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

Dave_w said:


> Hmm...would .308 handle a moose at more, shall we say, reasonable ranges? I only bring it up because out of all the cartridges mentioned, it's probably the cheapest and most versatile. I agree with NDT's evaluation of the short magnums...the recoil is fairly significant, even on the most finely-balanced of guns, and the price of both the rifle and the ammunition is rather high. And considering the fact that you'll want to practice quite a bit before taking to the field, well, the short mags, however appropriate for the situation, will probably be cost-prohibitive.
> 
> .308, on the other hand--and I'm assuming .30-06, I've never personally used it--is much cheaper. There's also a much wider selection of ammunition available for it, so there's definately going to be a decent whitetail/mule/moose load available locally.
> 
> ...


Have you ever shot a 300 Short action remington utra mag? I'm just guessing not or you would know the recoil is very mild, Less than most 30-06's.
Your are right about one thing though the ammo cost more for the 300 SARUM then the 30-06.
Please kid, don't try to make a 500 yard kill shot on a 2000 lb moose with a 30-06, even an expert might find that very difficult.


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## Albertahunter (Oct 25, 2005)

Albertahunter said:


> i said 500 yards because the really only place i would take them would be mule deer hunting on the praires. and i also would more than likely not be taking a 500 yard shot until i become more skilled with mi gun. i just want to have a gun for further down the road that is capable of long range hunting. i'm personally leaning to a 7mm mag because i go elk hunting every year otherwise i would get a 270


i said that i would not take 500 yard shots often, but would want a calibre capable of it when i become more experienced. and our moose here are no where near 2000 pounds. a huge bull for around here might be 1200.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Go with the 7mm-08. :2cents:


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## dennis_d (Feb 1, 2006)

.30-06, .270 or 7mm mag. you can find ammo at any mom and pop store. id pesonally go with the 7 mag


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## RiveRat (Sep 19, 2004)

I started shooting an 06 when I was 14 and didn't think the recoil was any different than the 12 ga I was shooting. That was 49 years ago and the 06 is still my favorite caliber, even though I now have a rifle in a special caliber for nearly everything I hunt. I have a feeling that this will not be your last rifle either. An 06 (or 308 Win) will get you started with a rifle that you can use (within your limits) for everything on your list. Ammo is available nearly everywhere and in a large variety of bullet types and weights. You can even get reduced recoil loads that allow you to work longer on your shooting techniques. Good luck in whatever you choose.


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## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

lol ABBK, I intended to kill all the short magnums in general, not provide specific points on each one. Sure, I could just say that they're cost-prohibitive, but I not only want to nail the coffin shut, I also want to set it on fire and pi$$ on the smoldering remains.

RiveRat has a point there. Even if you can't get a light load to work on shooting technique, you probably either know someone or will meet someone who reloads, and they're more likely to have a set of standard .308/.30-06 dies than anything for the short magnums. Using a lighter load to help with flinching is a pretty damn good idea. I also like to work with a friend and have him randomly load my rifle with a round, so that I don't know if there's one in the chamber or not. Believe me, you WILL notice your flinch.


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## steve66 (Apr 14, 2006)

i have never shot the 7mm mag but from what i have heard they kick pretty hard


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## dennis_d (Feb 1, 2006)

steve66 said:


> i have never shot the 7mm mag but from what i have heard they kick pretty hard


a bit more than a .270, a bit less than a .300 win mag


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Alert! Alert! Alert!

It has come to our attention that some users of this forum are apparently under the influence of halucenogenic drugs and cannot be held responsible for previous posts.

All readers! regarding the posts espousing the usefullness of short and ultra short magnums for 14 year olds, 2000 pound moose, and 500 yard shots, be advised! The authors are obviously under a drug induced euphoria, and should not be taken seriously. The proper law enforcement and mental health authorities are aware of the situation, and are making efforts to bring the individuals into protective custody.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

I am disapointed, and I think it is irresponsible to advise impressionable youth to purchase and use expensive and hard to control firearms for their formative outdoor experiences. 
Laddy, if it helps any, you can search this forum for previous posts on rifles to use and buy, and then you could make a decision based on a variety of opinions. I sincerely hope you will try to avoid 300 yard plus shots at all costs. Game shot, wounded and lost at extreeme ranges makes you a bad sportsman, period. 
In my opinion, the smaller 30 calibers are great, but for your uses in Alberta, so are the 6mm and 25 caliber rifles. Buying a used .308, a whole bunch of surplus ammunition, and practicing with the rifle 'til the barrel is burned out will be relatively cheap, and can help make you a really good shot. 
I wish you a long career of carefully placed shots, and a freezer full of tasty game.


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## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

Hmm...now, a 1500-pound moose, at 300 yards...is that even freakin` possible with anything less than a dangerous game cartridge costing approximately $1.50 per shot? I've never hunted them, so I don't know just how tough they really are. What I do know is, an animal that weighs as much as some small cars is probably not something you want to skimp on.

And please, Plainsman, no offense, the kid already knows better than to take a 500-yard shot. The number was thrown out there as an absolute maximum, something that might, maybe, and possibly be attempted a good ways down the line. And besides, one of my principles of good shooting is that if you're going to be making a 250-yard shot, it makes good sense to pack a gun and ammunition that can shoot 500 yards.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

My vote would be for the 308 or the 30-06. I suspect these two rounds have taken more moose than all other caliber's combined. I think the 308 is a very underrated cartridge but the 30-06 has the edge when moving up to something like a 220 grain bullet. Still I wouldn't hesitate to carry the 308 out after elk or moose.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Just as an example, my only moose fell to a 150 grain Nosler Partition handload out of a 270 at if I remember correctly, 420 or 424 yards. it took three steps and cashed in. I don't think it had a clue what happened. One shot went through the top of the heart and one through the front, recovered both bullets under the off side hide, mushroomed like an add in in outdoor magazine.

I will add, for our young hunter's edification, that I rarely take a shot like this, and won't do so unless I have every factor in my favor and have a rock solid rest. I also was extremely familiar with that rifle & load. In that situation, I had absolutely no question those rounds were going downtown.

I would point out that moose was taken in 1990 or 91 (I forget which) and since then I've taken exactly ONE shot of over 400 yards. That was what later proved to be an unneeded anchoring shot on a 140 class whitetail.
I made that shot with a 270 and 130 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip handload.

The point here being twofold. First, you don't need a fire breather to make those shots and second, you rarely will find a need to shoot that far...


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## mburgess (Aug 11, 2003)

ought six


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

See my photo album, 66" moose, 30-06.
No Super short, super fat, super expensive, super fast magnum. 
ND Terminator is right, plunk 'em and they'll tip over.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I would recommend the 7 mm rem mag. I love that gun....lots of ammo choices for all of your game. I like to use the factory winchester 140 gr accubond.....Killed a couple of deer this year with it...love the round. This is just IMO....I am very comfortable with it at 300+. It has little recoil, (again IMO). Great gun....the main thing with any gun you get shot it and get comfortable with it. I would go against a .300...just because of recoil. I have a 300 lb, 6' 4" friend that needed to put a sims recoil pad on his .300 WSM because of the kick. Again just my .02 cents.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> And please, Plainsman, no offense,


No offense taken Dave W., I am a little testy with some fellows about this right? You were not passsing judgment on my way of hunting. As a matter of fact I much appreciate your consideration about that.

I wouldn't recommend shots over 200 yards for a new hunter, even from a rest. As much as I love my 300's I wouldn't recommend the recoil to a starter either. ABBK is right about the Remington Short Action Ultramag. It is about 100 to 150 fps slower than the 300WSM and virtually a short action 30-06. Don't let the magnum moniker fool you, it's a 30-06 in disguise, and with perhaps no more recoil as ABBK eluded to.

Albertahunter, I like the 30 calibers for the heavy bullets available. The 30-06 is a very good rifle, but for you I would perhaps drop down to the 308. It's right on the heels of the 30-06, and I mean right on the heels, like stepping on them. Near same velocity with the bullets up to 180 grain. It drops behind the 3-06 on the real heavy fellows like the 220 grain, but still it puts them out there. Like others have mentioned the ammo is cheap and you can get surplus even cheaper. This will allow a lot of practice without a bank loan. Nothing beats a bullet in the right place. Better to put a 180 grain starting out of a 308 into the heart lung area of a moose, than a 300 mag through the gut.

Keep in mind this advise is coming from a died in the wool 300 Winchester Magnum fan. I'm sure this isn't your last rifle, and when you have mastered the 308 step up to the 300 Winchester Magnum. Do you reload? If you do you can reload the 300 Winchester magnum down to 308 velocities and push it up as your recoil tolerance increases. Nothing wrong with a low load, they are normally very accurate.


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## Albertahunter (Oct 25, 2005)

arctic plainsman said:


> Alert! Alert! Alert!
> 
> It has come to our attention that some users of this forum are apparently under the influence of halucenogenic drugs and cannot be held responsible for previous posts.
> 
> All readers! regarding the posts espousing the usefullness of short and ultra short magnums for 14 year olds, 2000 pound moose, and 500 yard shots, be advised! The authors are obviously under a drug induced euphoria, and should not be taken seriously. The proper law enforcement and mental health authorities are aware of the situation, and are making efforts to bring the individuals into protective custody.


did u actually read the entire post before u started flapping your mouth. I said the only animal that would have a 500 yard shot would be mule deer on the priares, NOT moose which around here are not 2000 pounds, the biggest i ahve heard of is around 1200 for a huge bull. And 500 yards is a very long way and i will not take that shot until i become more experienced with mi rifle. And even then not very many of the shots are 500 yards but some family members have needed to take the long shot. 
Next u want to say something quit being an ******* and saying im on drugs and actually read the entire dam post.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

I did read your post Alberta, and I wasn't refering to anything you said in any way.
I think others recomended the large and rare magnums, others refered to 2000# moose, and recomended shots out to and yes beyond 500yds. On moose no less. Read back a few, I think you'll see what I mean.

Because of the other posters that made these inadvisable recomendations, I replied with an admitedly too sarcastic post. I'm very sorry you were offended, I certainly didn't intend that.

Not that it's any kind of justification, but I get a little sore when folks give really bad advise to impressionable young folks like yourself that could lead to some hard to eradicate problems. Flinching due to a heavy recoiling rifle being exhibit "A". Consistently trying to make 500+ yard shots being a good exhibit "B".

Again, sorry about the confusion and the offense.

[/u]


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Go with the 308. Recoil is managable, it has more than enough punch for what you want to do, it is highly accurate and ammo is readily available.

If you go with a Savage you can easily rebarrel it yourself to the 300 WSM when you become more experienced if you like.

huntin1


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

huntin1, is right on! :beer:


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Albertahunter, after your last post I've changed my mind. Get yourself a 375 H&H ............... you deserve it. Translation............ if you don't understand what a tongue in cheek response is then maybe you should refrain from asking advice.

Whether you agree with them or not as a 14 year old you would be better served and respected if you showed a little more respect yourself towards those that are senior to you whether it is in person or from behind a keyboard. When I see this kind of attitude from a person your age towards an adult, the next question that comes to my mind is, is this kid ready to have a firearm of his own. Call me old fashion but that is how I see it.....


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## steve66 (Apr 14, 2006)

Gohon said:


> Albertahunter, after your last post I've changed my mind. Get yourself a 375 H&H ............... you deserve it. Translation............ if you don't understand what a tongue in cheek response is then maybe you should refrain from asking advice.
> 
> Whether you agree with them or not as a 14 year old you would be better served and respected if you showed a little more respect yourself towards those that are senior to you whether it is in person or from behind a keyboard. When I see this kind of attitude from a person your age towards an adult, the next question that comes to my mind is, is this kid ready to have a firearm of his own. Call me old fashion but that is how I see it.....


thats what i was thinking


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Dial it back a few notches kid, and don't take yourself so seriously. Learn to recognize when someone is pulling your leg. Often times there's some knowledge to be gained in the ribbing, if you shelve your ego and open your ears.

You might consider apologizing to the posters and moderator of this forum.

That's my final word on the matter.

Good luck, young man...


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