# Lion killing



## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Holy crap that situation has gotten out of hand... Even if this guy didn't know (which I doubt) what he was doing was illegal he should have suspected so and is still responsible. NEVER solely depend on your guides for the regulations. Do the research.... The outrage does prove some people don't have a clue. Lions are poached all the time, this one just happened to be well known. This lion was also near the end of it's lifespan and probably would have only held it's position in the pride for a couple more years at most. Some of the male cubs will likely be killed by the incoming leader but I doubt all will, as some are claiming. The juveniles will likely escape and form a bachelor group. But again this scenario would have played itself out naturally within a couple years anyway.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

This is what ****** me off on this situation.

1. The people attacking his business and giving it bad reviews just for spite. The guy could be the best dentist in that area but now will be done because of all of the protesting, bad reviews, etc. I wish or hope there is recourse against all of these people for slander!

2. The media goes off and writes an article saying how much it cost for the trip. WHO THE HELL CARES. The guy could have taken out a loan to pay for the trip. The guy could have saved up for years for this trip. WHO CARES.... That is all on the media and very poor reporting.

3. The guy paid a guide service and a Professional Hunter to help him on this hunt. Again this doesn't absolve him of neglect but when you pay for a service you expect things to be on the up and up. But you also cant be totally naïve as well...because if things started to look fishy.... then the situation stinks and don't proceed.

4. The media right away says that the animal was lured out of the park by bait in a truck.... We didn't know all the facts yet in the case yet the media jumps to put a bad light on hunters and big game hunters.

There is more...but this is a bad situation and I am not condoning what this guy did. If it was an illegal operation and he knew it was illegal.... he needs to get punished some how. But the stuff the media and people are doing to him personally.... is complete BS!!! I hope he gets a good lawyer and goes after people for slander and malicious acts against him. :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Here is what the locals think about it. While reading I had to ask myself would farmers around North Dakota tolerate lions, elephant and hippo? They would kill them all in the blink of an eye. I'm for hunting wolves myself, but landowners in North Dakota are upset about them in Montana and Minnesota. Can you imagine a lion on the loose? oke:



> HARARE (Reuters) - As social media exploded with outrage this week at the killing of Cecil the lion, the untimely passing of the celebrated predator at the hands of an American dentist went largely unnoticed in the animal's native Zimbabwe.
> 
> "What lion?" acting information minister Prisca Mupfumira asked in response to a request for comment about Cecil, who was at that moment topping global news bulletins and generating reams of abuse for his killer on websites in the United States and Europe.
> 
> ...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

EXACTLY!!!!

But you will never see that article on the front page of MSN.

Again I am not condoning to hunt illegally in Africa. So if that is true he hunted illegally and knew it. He should be punished or have to pay restitution.

It is like when Mellissa Bachman got ripped for posting a picture of her and a lion on her facebook page and the internet exploded. She did it legally and it is her profession to hunt and write about it or even do a tv show. I don't know what ever came of it with her. But she had death threats, attacks at her character and people made up lies.

Like I said I hope they find out some of these people and sue the crap out of them for defamation. :beer:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Look at the articles now on MSN...

One is about how much dentists make..... THAT IS JOURNALISM????

One is that the White House will look at a petition to extradite the dentist..... YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!
----- Zimebabwe hasn't even asked for extradition yet. So why should the US government worry about this. uke:

I cant believe people. There are much worse things out there in this world to worry about than this.

Again I am going to say that if the guy is proved to be liable and in the wrong. The government of zimebabwe should go after him to the fullest extent of their laws. Just like poachers in the USA should get the book thrown at them here.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

The extradition petition bothers me too.... We have something in this country called due process. That petition isn't it...... And the white house shouldn't even accept it until

A commenter on one posting made an excellent point. He asked how many people knew who Cecil was... before this week. Probably few to none. I know I didn't and usually anything wildlife related catches my eye...

This guy was in the wrong. Even if what he is saying about the guides telling him everything was OK is true, this situation stunk of impropriety and it was up to him to make the final call. I'm not sure he did his due diligence thus making him guilty. My rule of thumb is if I have to question if it is right, it probably isn't... We all know of examples of guides doing illegal things to accommodate their clients


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

What really gets me going is that if you asked these same people who are wanting extradition about how they feel about the poaching of the animals here in our own country. I beat 99% will have a confused look on their faces. Ask them why doesn't the US government go after the poachers on US soil they way you want them to go after a "suspected poacher" in Africa (he hasn't been charged...yet)......But this is what is really pi$$ing me off about this whole situation. Maybe the white house should take a look at how the courts go after poaching in the USA.... Maybe MSN should run some articles on how the Fish and Game in every state is under manned and then when they catch these criminals the judges give them slaps on the wrists.

I will get off my soap box before a vein explodes.... But it is funny how people think. Like the movie stars about saving world hunger.... How about hunger in our own nation first... Ok... I am done now. :thumb:


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

to bad people don't put forth this much effort into incarcerating criminals or at least bringing them to justice in the USA. sure tells you where priorities are. would people be this upset if they were hitting lions (instead of deer) with their cars? hell no. then they would want everyone of them shot. you wouldn't hear a word.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Look up YouTube video

Cam and Joe Rogan Cecil the lion

I use to think Rogan was a douche but besides his idea that a wild animal lives a pristine existence compared to a farm animal -he is a lot smarter than I gave him credit for!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Walleye.... I was with you about Rogen until I saw the TV show Meat Eater with Steve Rinella. If you never seen this show watch it. To me he shows the reason why I hunt.... the experience more than the kill. Then he cooks it to show you can eat wild game and how it is great....

He had Joe on and another comic on the show. These two never hunted before and he took them on a hunt. They were really into it and wanting to learn and know what is about hunting. Steve showed them and explained stuff and it was a great show. I believe they each bagged a mule deer. But it was a good two part show.

But that was a great clip on youtube about Ceil.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Absolutely right Chuck!

The only thing I don't agree with about with Rogan is: captive animals are miserable. ..

They are well fed
They have little to no predators
They are here because we are raising them
They are healthy

I'd like to discuss the difference between a cow that's destination is milking or consumption - comparing that cow to a wildebeest in Africa.... 
Or an elk in Yellowstone. ..

Would it be preferable to have a 50/50 chance of being chewed to death by a predator the 1st week of life, chased constantly, very real chance of starvation, or freezing/overheating /dehydrated to death OR- living safe and happy, well fed and attended to?

I think he forgets that we AREN'T wild animals anymore. ..even though I like him and now think he is entertaining. ...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Agree with what you say about captive animals...

Look at milk cows...
They are on a feeding schedule and won't starve (for 99% of them out there. There are some bad farmers in the world).... They are housed from the elements (for the most part), they have health check ups (more than most humans), etc.

But people don't think of this because they don't know how these operations work.

But this is another whole topic. :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

An acquaintance talked with someone familiar with old Cecils haunts. He says local villagers are glad he is dead. No one could go to the river alone because there are to many lions and they have been killing people. Even olg gentle Cecil may have had a villager or two.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Can anyone image living somewhere where there is a legitimate outcome of death by lion attack just by going to get water?

I know exactly how it would turn out for the Lions and hyenas if I heard of one of my distant relatives getting bit...much less killed.

Maybe some of the people buying stuffed toys to put in front of the dentist's office should go to Africa and train the locals how to live in harmony with the lions....


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Even more natives over there are dragged into rivers by crocs. Kids, women washing clothes or getting water by the river, or fishermen in their dugout canoes. Hippos nail a lot, too! They feed far from the water at night and if some unsuspecting native inadvertently gets between one and the water, look out! Or disturb a bull with a cow in heat nearby! The way their tusks close they have a nasty habit of biting people in two! Cape buffs are not pets and get some.lions get em, in some areas near the coastlines freshwater bull sharks grab some. Leopards get the occasional kid. Hyenas love to find a passed out native with a beer overdose and bite his face off!
Kind of a high risk environment from those cuddly cute animals. The Disney lovers don't realize that! Also don't realize that Non Resident Sportsmen are wild animals best friends! So are photo safaris and other forms of tourism, but they are all important and have their place!


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