# Which brush gun?



## Fallguy

I am looking at getting a short range brush gun for walking cattails and river bottoms for next deer season. My .243 with a scope doesn't work as well in that situation as it does in the open. Here are the two I am considering. Let me know what kind of luck you have had with either gun.

1. Winchester 94

2. Marlin 336

Also, would you suggest a 30/30 or .35 caliber? I heard the Marlin is available in a .35


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## Militant_Tiger

If you are set on those two I would get the .35. If you are not I would consider a yugo m-48, which is .323 diameter or 8mm and should work fine as a brush gun, they are very cheap, and the ammo is on par with 30-06 prices.


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## zogman

Marlin 30/30 with a low (2 1/2) power scope. :2cents:


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## MossyMO

No question about it, a 7.62X39 SKS. Inexpensive for the initial purchase and for the ammo. It being a semi-automatic is a huge bonus.


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## Plainsman

It depends on what your definition of a brush gun is. Short rifles are fast and handle nice in heavy cover. However, many people think the large calibers push through brush, not so.

I read back in the late 1970's about a ballistic experiment related to brush and bullets. Back in those days it was thought that large diameter heavy bullets pushed through brush. The experimenter set up ½ inch dowels ¼ inch apart at five and ten yards in front of a target. He fired various rounds at the target, five rounds to a group. The big old 45/70 would not put half it's bullets on the 12 inch target ten yards behind the barrier. The best brush bullets were bullets with the highest sectional density. An Italian 6.5mm beat all the rest.

I like lever actions also, and have a model 94 in 44 mag. If I want to penetrate brush or small twigs I would look for a short rifle in a caliber like a 260 Remington. Nothing wrong with a short fast handling 30-30 or 35 if fast handling, short range is what you are looking for. Just thought I would throw my .02 in on the ballistics end of things.


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## mr.trooper

THE 6.5 CARCANO???

I have NEVER heard anything good about this gun...BUT i do aprove of the 6.5 calibres. i only wish the were avalible in a lever action. The only semi-auto i know of for the 6.5 (ljungman) is WAY to long for use as a brush gun.

Huh, id alwase thought that big calibres made good brush guns...what if you could use a bullet with a thick jacket? would that help defeat brush?

the SKS is also an interesting choice. A folding stock and a peep-uder scope mount would make it a good brush gun...Short, fast handling, quick follow-up shots. its all there.

yea, a short Carbine chambered for a bullet with high sectional density would be of good use.

Whats the overall length of a BLR ??? if you could get one with a short enough barrel, maybee the 270 WSM version could be a good brush gun?


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## Militant_Tiger

> I have NEVER heard anything good about this gun...BUT i do aprove of the 6.5 calibres. i only wish the were avalible in a lever action. The only semi-auto i know of for the 6.5 (ljungman) is WAY to long for use as a brush gun.


He speaks the truth, the accuracy is supposed to be terrible. When you said that the Italian 6.5 beat the rest I thought, yeah if you could get it to hit the wood at all!

The SKS might work well also, didn't even consider that.

I would stick away from the BLR, I have heard bad things about accuracy and keyholing bullets with that gun.


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## northerndave

when you say brush gun, do you just want a handy short brute for beating the brush with or do you need to shoot through the dang stuff? The tube fed levers are the first thing that come to mind, you listed them at the top of the post so you must be considering the obvious. You don't have to stick with the standard 30-30 either though, there's lots of cool stuff out there in the round nose lever world. How about a 444? 45-70? 450? how bout a cowboy action sort of thing? Shooting through brush & doing so successfully is dependant on a lot of luck! just because it works for you one day won't mean it'll work every time. I'd suggest the stout winny or marlin lever, short, quick pointing, keep it open sights for quick target aquistion. If you drag a BLR through the brush you will cry a river of tears when you see what the brush has done to that beauty queen when you get done hunting.


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## Plainsman

Trooper & MT

The Italian isn't much of a rifle, but the 6.5 bullet deflected less than others. I guess the rifle was just a tool to launch the projectile and a 12 inch target at 100 yards isn't much of a challenge. It evidently became a real challenge when ½ inch dowels are encountered. I guess it's just the physics of the thing. I have also read in magazines that the high sectional density bullets keep a straight line better when encountering bone in large animals.

I don't know if a thick jacket would help at all. I doubt it. I was thinking about the Browning lever also, but I can't recall the calibers that it is available in.


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## Fallguy

Refer to the first post:

All I am looking for is opinions on the 2 guns listed. I don't want an SKS, I don't want a Hmong special...I just want opinions on the Winchester 94 and the Marlin 336. Thanks to the one or two of you that have done that so far. If you don't know about those two guns, then don't reply.


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## mr.trooper

The marlin Lever action will serve you well. it would be my choice of the two.

--Although i do object to you refering to my chef hunting arm as a Hmong special...

that idiotic primate has apparently labbeld all of us with his actions...


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## Militant_Tiger

You know fallguy shoving away opinions other than those upon the guns which you listed isin't a good way to make friends here, especially not on your 55th post. If you don't need that information, and are dead set on those two guns, so be it but someone else may benefit from it.


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## Fallguy

Militant Tiger,

I catch your drift. That is perhaps why I only have 55 posts...I don't reply unless I have something to say that applies to the purpose of the thread.

I guess the purpose of the forum is to discuss options. I apologize...I may have been a little harsh. I guess different personalities will post or not-post in different ways.

Yes, I am looking into those two guns only. I want something that has an older appearance like those two lever actions. I am looking at using it with just the open sights. I would love to harvest a deer with an open sight lever action. Something I have always wanted to do.

Carry on!


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## MossyMO

Winchester 94


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## MossyMO

> I don't want a Hmong special...


The more I think about this remark, all I can think of is Archie Bunker and his closed minded thinking.


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## northerndave

MossyMO said:


> I don't want a Hmong special...
> 
> 
> 
> The more I think about this remark, all I can think of is Archie Bunker and his closed minded thinking.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Archie was the king wasn't he? I love that guy. er, um, I mean shame, shame, not very politically correct! ............. No I don't, man I miss that sort of humor. Archie rules!

Anywho, thanks for giving us some more info fallguy, that's stuff we need to know. The open sight hunt with nostalgic styling of the old lever guns appeals to you. See, now we're talkin. Knowing that, both are a very good choice. I guess the winny maybe has more of an established or at least perceived history as "the gun that won the west" or something like that. I like both the winny & the marlin. I prefer the slim stock & fore end of the 94, the overall look wins my vote, it's pretty. But I honestly prefer the solid lock up of the marlin action, feels solid! Maybe check out the used market, a buddy of mine has an older 94 in real nice shape, I think it's a 65 (dang, one year late to call a pre 64, I know) but still, nice old rifle, I thought of buying it myself. He's got some real old pre 64 stuff too, one old saddle ring unit he fell into for dirt cheap! Anyways, figure out if the modern safety mech of the new 94 & the new marlin appeal to your needs, if so you kind of have to buy new or slightly used. if not, check out some of the old stuff.
send PM if you want me to get you a price on my buddies old 94.


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## BIG LOST

*My 1st choice would be the marlin in .35 and a low-power scope.As for the the carcano 6.5,,until very recently the Italians used issue,,pre war m91s in the NATO matchs they hold in various NATO countrys,,with old issue ammo,,and more than hold thier own on the fireing line,,,tho lately the are useing the Berretta clone of the m14 NM :beer: *


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## Longshot

Fallguy

I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag. and took it out for the first time for deer. I had a great time carrying that rifle around and shot a doe with it. It's performance was surprising. Either of those guns would be nice. Get the one that fits you the best and good hunting.


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## purepower

i would definately consider taking a 44. mag pistol or a 30-30 or 357. lever action rifle....just my suggestions


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## agrotom

The Marlin in .35 Rem. a great combo of a light gun and great knockdown power. Use the 200 gr. bullets, I have a old remmington pump rifle (141 game master) in .35 and I absolutly love the .35 for deer or black bear. :sniper:


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## Sasha and Abby

Your rifle should be the Ruger .44 Mag carbine. Fantastic short range gun that is light and fast. I have two and love them for walking.


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## dlip

I like the looks of the winchester a lot more, I like the thought of packing a John Wayne gun. I think the Marlin would be a better choice quality wise, even though I dont like the pistol gripped stocks. I think the marlin is better balanced, is very light weight, its a workhorse, and it still looks good. Go marlin and you won't be disappointed.


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## Militant_Tiger

Sasha and Abby said:


> Your rifle should be the Ruger .44 Mag carbine. Fantastic short range gun that is light and fast. I have two and love them for walking.


I heard quite a bit of bad about that, screws rattling out after just a few shots and so on.


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## Sasha and Abby

I know probably 20 guys around here that use them for hog hunting. I have never heard one word about their being unreliable - and these guys slug the guns through the mud and swamp without ever cleaning. They have been around a lond time and are the best carbine on the market in my opinion.


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## Longshot

Sasha and Abby

I have a friend that owns one and loves it. I shot it a couple of times and found it to be a lot of fun. Every once and a while it comes to mind when looking at a new gun.

Ignore MT, he always takes the other side just to argue. He writes of bits and pieces that he reads not from real life experiences.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Ignore MT, he always takes the other side just to argue. He writes of bits and pieces that he reads not from real life experiences.


You prove your ignorance more day by day.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ruger_deerfield.htm


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## huntin1

fallguy,

I would go with the Marlin 336 for the rifle. The 30 30 would do and ammo is real common. The 35 would be better IMHO, and the 444 or 45-70 even better if the recoil won't bother you. I also agree with zogman, put a low power scope on it, he said 2 1/2 power, I would probably go with a Leupold variable 1 to 4 power.

huntin1


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## Fallguy

Thanks for all the help so far. I will have to start looking at some options more seriously. Then I will have to put in some extra hours this summer to pay for the gun. I will most likely try a 94 and a 336 and see what one I like the feeling of better.

I think I may just keep the open sights on it.


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## Longshot

MT, thanks for proving my point. An article about a test on one rifle and no life experience for you to reference. 8)


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## Militant_Tiger

Longshot said:


> MT, thanks for proving my point. An article about a test on one rifle and no life experience for you to reference. 8)


Apparently a short experience with said gun is better than information from the gun expert chuck hawks. Quite a comment.


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## jim21

To tell u the truth,I would look in to the SKS,it shoots cheap ammo,its semi-automatic,its a great brush gun,u dont have to be a expert with one.But if you want something on the light side,Id go with the 30-30,there a good beater gun also.But dont use a scope.You make your own desision. 8)


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## bwnelson

OK, obviously off topic because the original poster has his heart set on one of two guns. For the rest of you that care ...

I hunt the jungle on the Red River North of Fargo on an annual basis (yes as a NON RESIDENT too ... but it is family land so ...)

I acquired a rifle as a dedicated brush gun (see Rifle projects this year sticky) ...

It is a FN Venezuelan Contract Mauser in 7x57. Put on a Win 70 style safety, bobbed the barrel to 1/8" past the stock (about 17 1/2 to 18 inches), and put on a 1.5-6x42 Sightron SII scope.

Working up handloads between 47 and 50 gr of H4350 and Hornady flat base spire points 139 gr as we speak.

Total weight is about 8.4# loaded but it balances nicely and I like the extra weight for quick steady shots. So far it has shot 1.5" at 100 with factory rem 140's ... hope for a little better with my handloads. Total package is about 38" front to back.

This should avoid most any brush branch in the way and be serious medicine on most any whitetail. Great SD bullet, reasonable velocity in the 2700-2750 range, super field of vison on the close stuff and up to 6x if you feel the need to stretch to 300+.

That is what I did for a brush gun of choice ... then again, I could be wrong ;-)


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## bwnelson

Edited multiple post because I can't delete it


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## bwnelson

Edited multiple post because I can't delete it


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## Hatchie Dawg

Marlin 336 in 30-30. There are several better loads for the 30-30 now with Federal Fusion and Hornady Leverevolution probably topping the list but also the old tried and true Core Lokts and power points. They are all reasonably priced. .
I have hunted 20 years with a 336 in 30-30 topped with a 1.75x5 Redfield and to date have never wanted more. The scope is very quick on the low setting but being from TN I have never walked a cattail slough for deer so I can't vouch for its effectiveness there.The 30-30 is an underrated round. For years I have heard about its inadequacies but my experience in the field has been excellent to the 150yd mark.


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## bwnelson

Hatch,

No flies on the 30-30 out to 150 or 200. I have found when walking the edges of cover in N.Dak that it is a long ways to the next patch. Cattail Deer can start at shoelace range and you could be shooting at them out to the limits of your ability.

My philosophy on the brush gun is it has to work for general purposes in a pinch. In N.Dak you may leave the house thinking that you are walking cattails or river bottom and end up stalking something in the middle of a flat field. I've gotten lucky so far with the 7x57 Shillelagh ... a max load of H4350 put 3 139gr Interlocks into a half inch at 100yds - chrony said both sides of 2800fps. My brush gun will shoot further and straighter than the owner.

Which is a blessing and a curse.


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## sdeprie

Of the 2 choices you gave us I would opt for the Marlin in 35. I also like the looks of the winchester better, but the structural quality of the Marlin is better, will handle a scope easier if you chose to use one, etc. I understand the improvements made to 30-30 loads, can't wait to try them. I personally load spitzers in my 30-30 because it is a bolt action with a stacked magazine. 
The BLR comes in 358 Win, which is my personal choice for a brush caliber, although I had my brush gun built out of an old Mauser. 358 Win, 18.5 in barrel, red dot scope. Original stock, ugly as sin. (I couldn't care less if it got scratched. I sometimes take a dremel and carve on it when I'm bored.) Timney trigger, Shaw barrel, home blue job. It ain't much for looks, but it's a brush gun. The 358 has more range than most give it credit for. With a 180 gr spitzer at 2600+ fps, that's good for 250 yards. It doesn't have the recoil I thought it would have. With a 250 gr bullet, it has all the ft/lbs I could ask for in a brush gun. I never try to shoot through brush, but to find a hole through it and wait for the right shot. I'm in the market for one of those Ruger 44 carbines, if anybody can't stand those rattling screws, anymore. My 2 cents.


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## KILLEDBAMBI

MARLIN 3030 IS THE BEST BRUSH GUN EVER.


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## Chestnut

My first deer hunting trip was with a Marlin 30-30. I dropped it and busted the front sight off. But it was and still is a nice gun. But what I haven't seen posted yet is anything on the Winchester plant closure. Didn't they stop making the '94?

For what it's worth, my "brush gun" is a Turkish Mauser in 8x57, cut down to 18" with a red dot sight mounted scout-style out on the barrel. Practice ammo is cheap, though corrosive, and there's so many guns around that every sporting goods store in my area has a couple loads for it.


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## clampdaddy

Have you thought about a Remington 7600 carbine in 30-06. The Benoit family swears by them and I think that if anyone has a good idea of what makes a good brush gun it would be them. I have a 7400 carbine and would recomend it as well, as long as you don't plan on shooting past 200 yards.


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## Cleankill47

The Marlin .30-30 will do the job just fine. The Winchester 94 will cost about $300 more for pretty much the same thing, but it will do what you want it to do. It all comes down to which of the two is more comfortable in _your_ hands, after all, _you'll_ be the one walking the cattail swamps.


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