# Making my own muzzle loading bullets for 50cal / sabots



## borderghost

I am having a 3 cavity mould made up for muzzle loader bullets , going to shoot these from my 50 cal / sabots - bullets is .451 / .835 long / 325 grns
FB / RN - smooth body / also having a jig made to make hollow points after i cast the bullets , they say tin in the lead will help pour nice sharp edges , want the bullets to be soft / medium in hardness , I have all the equipment , just never made any lead bullets yet , anyone have any infor bout what mixture or where to find infor that may be handy.
thx 
[email protected]


----------



## barebackjack

Check here.

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseP ... ing=685***

Youll want something like this. You can mix your own, but unless your working with set amounts of each and know the purity of your lead (alot of lead isnt "pure" lead, it already has other metals in it that make it harder) it can be tough to get the "mix" right.

If you are new to casting, youd be better off going with a pre-mixed alloy.

And if you get real serious, I recommend a hardness testing kit.


----------



## alleyyooper

Go talk to these guys. There is a world of casting information there.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com

 Al


----------



## Plainsman

borderghost, I wouldn't spend the money on custom bullet moulds. Sabots come in sizes for 44 bullets and 45 bullets so you have a wide range of choices. You can use up to 300 gr in 44 bullets, up to 230 gr in 451 which is 45ACP, and up to 350 gr in 452 which fits 45 Colt and 454 Casull. These moulds will then do double duty for you if you ever buy one of these calibers, or already have one.

You should be able to buy wheel weights from a tire store for under $0.25 per pound. These are 95% lead, 4% antimony, and one percent other metals. I have been mixing 5% tin for what Lyman calls a number 2 alloy. It doesn't lead much until your pushing 2000 fps, but in a sabot your not worried anyway. Tin doesn't harden lead a lot, but 1% will help in the moulding process.

Save your money on the custom job and drop another $55 on a casting thermometer. Add 1% tin to wheel weights, bring your temperature to between 725 and 750 degrees and cast away. Oh, the Lee casting furnaces are cheap. Get a 10 lb bottom pour and your all set. Make sure you have adequate ventilation. Use a little bees wax and drop on the melted lead. Watch the smoke for direction it's moving so you can make sure it's not towards you. Don't sneeze into the melted lead. One tiny drop and it will explode into a ten foot circle and burn the heck out of you.


----------



## barebackjack

Plainsman said:


> You should be able to buy wheel weights from a tire store for under $0.25 per pound. These are 95% lead, 4% antimony, and one percent other metals.


Not to pick, but I have a hardness tester, and there is no way to know precisely how "pure" wheel weights are. Every batch I work with comes out different.

If you casting for conicals, the hardness tester is indispensable in my opinion if you want any kind of consistency. As well as a good lead thermometer.


----------



## Plainsman

barebackjack said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should be able to buy wheel weights from a tire store for under $0.25 per pound. These are 95% lead, 4% antimony, and one percent other metals.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to pick, but I have a hardness tester, and there is no way to know precisely how "pure" wheel weights are. Every batch I work with comes out different.
> 
> If you casting for conicals, the hardness tester is indispensable in my opinion if you want any kind of consistency. As well as a good lead thermometer.
Click to expand...

Yup, I know they change. They have made two big changes in the past 20 years, and small changes occur all the time by manufacturer.

I would go pure lead with conicals wouldn't you? I was talking about bullets in sabots. Pure would be ok, but some spit out at 2000 fps or more so I would use an alloy for that.

Which hardness tester do you have? I am looking at the Sako. I have oven tempered a couple of times, but I think the bullet looses that hardness in the sizer, and if not definitely within two inches down the barrel. What do you think?


----------



## barebackjack

Plainsman said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You should be able to buy wheel weights from a tire store for under $0.25 per pound. These are 95% lead, 4% antimony, and one percent other metals.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to pick, but I have a hardness tester, and there is no way to know precisely how "pure" wheel weights are. Every batch I work with comes out different.
> 
> If you casting for conicals, the hardness tester is indispensable in my opinion if you want any kind of consistency. As well as a good lead thermometer.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yup, I know they change. They have made two big changes in the past 20 years, and small changes occur all the time by manufacturer.
> 
> I would go pure lead with conicals wouldn't you? I was talking about bullets in sabots. Pure would be ok, but some spit out at 2000 fps or more so I would use an alloy for that.
> 
> Which hardness tester do you have? I am looking at the Sako. I have oven tempered a couple of times, but I think the bullet looses that hardness in the sizer, and if not definitely within two inches down the barrel. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Im no expert, but I took tips from a guy that, lets just say I wish I had a buck for every bullet/ball hes poured!

I was always told to go with a harder alloy for conicals, whether bare loaded or in a sabot. "Pure" lead (soft) projectiles for something thats going to contact the lands/grooves themselves leads to lots of lead fouling and makes a mess. And obviously you can have a harder alloy for saboted slugs as your not trying to engage the rifling with the slug itself or a softer one as you dont need to worry about lead fouling, but in my experience, a slightly hard alloy pours much nicer and still performs pretty well. The only thing I pour as "pure" lead are round balls.

I havent loaded many conicals, and when I did it was a generic "buffalo bullet" style. I think I was shooting for a brinnel hardness of 8 or 9, just slightly harder than most wheel weights (ive run into wheel weights that gauge as "pure" lead and some that are almost linotype-really no rhyme or reason to them in my experience). That seemed to perform best for me as any harder and they were next to impossible to load, and any softer and they crudded up the barrel to the point where after several rounds I had so much lead fouling I couldnt reload.

I have the saeco tester, got lucky and found one for half price on ebay. They are spendy new! But, if you do alot of casting, they pay for themselves real quick. I can get scrap lead, wheel weights, or someones lead they claim is "pure" and know exactly what I have and what it would be best suited for. I just got over 50 lbs from a guy that used to cast jigs and sinkers. DEAD soft scratch a huge gouge with your fingernail lead. Will make some GREAT round balls!

Im just getting into casting bullets for my .45 ACP, and once again, the tester will be worth its weight in gold.


----------



## barebackjack

On a side note......

Im pretty much a round-ball guy now, but after some experience, just scratching the lead with your fingernail can give you a pretty good idea of what your dealing with. Your obviously not going to be exact, but as far as knowing whether I can use if for round balls or if it would be better suited for actual bullets, I can do with my fingernail.


----------



## Plainsman

> I was always told to go with a harder alloy for conicals


No kidding. My Thompson Center mould instructions said to use pure lead or they would not obturate properly in the bore. I have never had any leading problem. I shoot a Thompson Center Maxi Ball at about 1700 fps. I was lucky to find pure lead in 2X2 foot sheets 1/8 inch thick from an Xray lab. I think I will shoot round ball next fall. As a matter of fact I would like to get a flintlock.

I keep forgetting to look at Ebay. I bought a certified tork wrench in inch pounds from Brownells for $150, and my friend got one on Ebay for $50.


----------



## barebackjack

I actually thought about that. As with the round balls, you want soft pure lead so the ball obturates when the charge goes off and "seals" the bore better. Which is why I tried a soft bullet as well. But that just led to the fouling problem and I didnt notice any performance boost.

But if you think about it, that skirt on the bottom of the bullet should obturate and seal up pretty easy as its thinner walled. At least in my experiences. Now I dont know if they all have that skirt (I looked at the lyman catalog and theres a plethora of mold choices when it comes to bullets), the ones I was pouring did and it seemed to work fine. I would venture to guess that a solid based bullet like perhaps a ballet would have to be much softer to accomplish this.

And than from a hunting standpoint, you dont want to be to hard as your mushrooming on impact could be impeded. Its all about finding that balance, as is most things.


----------



## Plainsman

Ya, the Thompson Center Maxi-Ball is a solid base.

Have you noticed that pure soft lead holds together well at velocities up to 1800 fps. I don't know what the deal is, but it's like it smears instead of breaking up like slightly harder lead. Then if it's real hard it doesn't mushroom.

I made some 44 bullet back in the 1970's from 2/3 wheel weight and 1/3 linotype. I shot a half dozen through a railroad tie. I seen the impact in the dirt beyond so I dug them up. You could see perfect rifling on them and they were otherewis in perfect shape. Man, I thought I had armor piercing. Then I shot into the end of a cut off oak log. They held together just like the others, but that oak end grain shut them down with only about an inch of penetration. Maybe those oak tables the cowboys hid behind in the western movies would stop the old cap and ball revolvers.


----------

