# Canada Goose egg drilling in NE SD



## jpallen14

Well sounds like egg drilling is going well in NE SD. I'm sure GFP will still spend a record amount of money on goose dep. and have record amount of complaints from land owners despite. Maybe some are aware but I think most are not, SD GFP is drilling eggs on public lands as well as private. The best part is they are drilling eggs and disturbing other nesting waterfowl on WPAs (waterfowl production areas). Does anyone find it crazy that SD GFP is drilling eggs with sportsman dollars on public ground purchased by migratory bird stamp dollars, whose purpose is to raise waterfowl and migratory birds? Do you think they are going over the top drilling eggs on public ground? I can't believe there isn't more uproar about this&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;


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## slough

It is too bad, but it will probably be about as effective at lowering the population as the spring snow goose hunt has been. How large of a scale are they doing it on? i.e. how much are they spending on this?


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## fieldgeneral

That is a serious crock of ****! If that is the case someone needs to spend a little time and make a few phone calls because by no means should they be stepping on WPA's and trying to kill what we taxpayers are paying for to raise those "federal" birds.


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## jpallen14

slough said:


> It is too bad, but it will probably be about as effective at lowering the population as the spring snow goose hunt has been. How large of a scale are they doing it on? i.e. how much are they spending on this?


They have several summer interns that job is to drill eggs day in and day out. Trucks, boats......I'm sure it is well over $100,000. Last year SD GFP spend $750,000 on goose depredation program but still had record complaints.


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## EllendaleND

Well I can see this happening on private cropland or something. But on a WMA is pointless because those geese aren't doing any harm to anyone, Unless the nests on the WMA are right up against a bean field. Then I could see problems. But ya, pointless. If they really wanted them gone, they would let the farmers shoot at them through the summer.


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## Sasha and Abby

The farmers I know up there, wear their ***** out with a rifle during the spring/summer.


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## 6162rk

the majority of the farmers are insured against crop yield loss. they have nothing to complain about. most of their premium is being paid by anyone that pays federal taxes. farmers just came off of a record year for income. again it all boils down to greed!


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## themaskedmallard

EllendaleND said:


> Well I can see this happening on private cropland or something. But on a WMA is pointless because those geese aren't doing any harm to anyone, Unless the nests on the WMA are right up against a bean field. Then I could see problems. But ya, pointless. If they really wanted them gone, they would let the farmers shoot at them through the summer.


Regardless of if the geese are adjacent to private crop ground, IMO, it is ethically and morally wrong to be performing any kind of drilling/goose depredation on WPA's, or any public land that is there for the purpose of producing wildlife. WPA's are funded by the purchasing of Duck Stamps, and to be killing waterfowl that are trying to produce is slapping the sole purpose of the program across the face. You can't tell me that during these excursions into the WPA that other nesting waterfowl and/or upland game aren't being disturbed from their nests in the process, even if it wasn't intentional it still happened. Not to mention these depredation teams are wasting close to a million dollars a year on techniques that are knowingly ineffective and are done for the sole purpose of trying to keep landowners somewhat happy, but with record numbers of complaints it's apparent that they aren't.

Only mother nature will bring the goose population down to where it needs to be, meanwhile all morals and ethics go out the window by the GF&P as they continue to waste money. Nearly $4.3 million since 2000, money that could be spent in many other well placed areas. It is one thing to spend large amounts of money on something that is effective, its another thing to be throwing money out the window on something that isn't. We call that stupidity.


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## eye_guysd

I also heard from a source employed by the GFP that was directed to do egg crushing in the past and he refused as well as others, for the same reasons the rest of us are upset about this. Now this year he said they started sending more than one person together so they can ensure those that refuse are doing their "job" or else looking for another job.


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## blhunter3

How would you go about reducing the population? Do you have any better ideas?


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## 6162rk

leave the population alone. nature will decide when there are to many.


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## jpallen14

blhunter3 said:


> How would you go about reducing the population? Do you have any better ideas?


Private land only, Have landowners take some responsibilty. Why should sportsman fund goose dep 100%, All the money and the man power?

No reason to be drill eggs on waterfowl prodcution areas. So far they have spent a record amount of money each year with record amounts of landowner complaints. Nothing has been solved just created a monster with free handouts that don't work.


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## snow

If true its funny PETA has'nt stepped in,after all they filed suit against the USFW service when they announced the snow goose nest clearing in the artic,hence we have the conservation order today.Anyway to confirm this activity?


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## blhunter3

The Game and Fish are the ones who brought back the birds, they should be responsible to take care of the problem who they see fit.


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## the professor

snow said:


> Anyway to confirm this activity?


Uh...call the SD GF&P. They aren't hiding the fact they drill nests. I believe it was around 1500 nests last spring.


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> The Game and Fish are the ones who brought back the birds, they should be responsible to take care of the problem who they see fit.


Goes both ways, landowners assisted the Game and Fish with the successful restoration of a bird near extinction yet somehow they are not held responsible for anything? Is not the way farmers choose to currently go about farming have anything to do with the explosion of the Canada Goose, or is that all the GF&P problem too. Pretty easy to point the finger at someone else when you should be looking in the mirror too.


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## blhunter3

Why does everyone think that we have the time on our hands to go shoot the geese with shotguns and rim fire rifles. Its a lot more work then just drive out there and shoot. They wisen up fast. Scarecrows? Moving them every day is very time consuming and they don't work after a few weeks. Boomers also take time and loose their effectiveness, and you can't have them near town or houses. So yes I get that some of you are mad that the state is paying to have some of them killed and maybe that isn't the best option, but I have yet to see anyone bring up an idea that would work. The floor is open. Please share your ideas and thoughts.

And forcing landowners to allow people to hunt on THEIR land is not an option.


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## bwfsh

I am sure glad the rest of us don't have to do any extra hard work and time consuming tasks to protect our income. How about if you leave a buffer strip instead of farming right to the edge of a wetland so they won't cross over when they are molting? By the time they can fly the august season will be open or close to it and your crops will be mature enough to cut back on destruction. I agree you shouldn't be forced to let people hunt land you own. If you are complaining and looking for government assistance on the other hand you should be required to let people hunt.


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## Plainsman

Waterfowl production areas are supposed to produce waterfowl. Drilling eggs on WPA's is kind of like hiring someone to go pull corn on private land. I don't think farmers would be happy, and I don't know why they think we should be ok with egg drilling. To be clear I hardly ever pick up a shotgun. I have not hunted a goose for six years. I'm simply looking at this from Joe Citizens perspective.


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## blhunter3

bwfsh said:


> I am sure glad the rest of us don't have to do any extra hard work and time consuming tasks to protect our income. How about if you leave a buffer strip instead of farming right to the edge of a wetland so they won't cross over when they are molting? By the time they can fly the august season will be open or close to it and your crops will be mature enough to cut back on destruction. I agree you shouldn't be forced to let people hunt land you own. If you are complaining and looking for government assistance on the other hand you should be required to let people hunt.


Buffer strips are a good idea except, when the slough expands you will have to replant it and not everyone has a drill anymore. What happens when the slough dries up, you will have to replant it again. Also how will you mange the weeds in the buffer strip?

So where is all of this free time us farmers have you are talking about? We can't devote our whole day every day to harass the geese. We have other things to do like, spray, mow ditches, bale, fix fence, among other things.


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## dakotashooter2

blhunter3 said:


> *The Game and Fish are the ones who brought back the birds*, they should be responsible to take care of the problem who they see fit.


?????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## bwfsh

Like I said, god forbid you would do a little extra work or control weeds on a few more acres. Much easier to destroy their habitat so you can make more money and then whine so the government fixes it when they eat a small percentage of your crop.


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## blhunter3

Drift factors into spraying the buffer strips.


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## 6162rk

i have personally seen buffer strips work very well. you make the large enough that drift is not an issue as well as water level changes having zero effect.


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## blhunter3

How will you have no drift problems?


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## the professor

Buffers work sometimes. Some times they don't. Ours didn't years ago, so we shot the geese. I don't like that nest destruction is done on public land. I feel like those birds should be given a chance to do the damage first. Oh well. The state want's 90,000 geese and we're not going to get there any time soon through hunting alone. :eyeroll:


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## blhunter3

Let us use center fire rifles, that would help.


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## 6162rk

I personally know several farmers that loose a lot of crop to wildlife depredation every year. Yet they all plant food plots for the wildlife every year. The difference between them and those *****ing about wildlife depredation? They are not greedy. They have been giving for years and will continue until they day they die. Take your wildlife depredation and stick where the sun don't shine. Maybe take the hint that your farming to close to something elses space!


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## blhunter3

So are you going to pay for crop loss? When you are cash renting you pay for the whole area so yes you are going to farm as close you to can everywhere.


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## jpallen14

Landowners need to take some responsiblity, right now they there is none.


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## blhunter3

We are trying, but its hard when your hands are tied behind your back.


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## 6162rk

we already pay for your crop loss. more programs than you can believe. when are you going to start paying for my wage loss? i haven't found a program to cover it yet.

part of the reason i feel this way is because at one time we didn't have many (or any) geese. they are one of the great waterfowl success stories.


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## jpallen14

blhunter3 said:


> We are trying, but its hard when your hands are tied behind your back.


Can't you get kill permits in ND? I'm pretty sure they deal with the problem much different then SD. You wouldn't believe what SD GFP does for landowners in eastern SD


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> So are you going to pay for crop loss? When you are cash renting you pay for the whole area so yes you are going to farm as close you to can everywhere.


"Tax payers in 2012 payed * a record high of $12 billion* - yet nationwide, farmers' net income last year was $114 billion, the second-highest in the past 30 years.

Hard for me to feel bad about you losing money to geese if your still making a considerable profit off of the crop in the same field. I wish I could run a business with the same structure of farming right now.

Instead of complaining, why not use some of that profit to protect your own crops or at least attempt to counteract the issue? Why does the responsibility fall entirely on the Game and Fish? Seems to me like farmers share the same if not more responsibility of the problem since they greatly assisted back when the Canada Goose was saved from extinction.

I feel as if the USFWS and State Game and Fish departments need to refigure the population goal, 180k birds between North and South Dakota is not even close to the carrying capacity, but the goal number was never figured with carrying capacity taken into consideration in the first place.


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## blhunter3

jpallen14 said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are trying, but its hard when your hands are tied behind your back.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you get kill permits in ND? I'm pretty sure they deal with the problem much different then SD. You wouldn't believe what SD GFP does for landowners in eastern SD
Click to expand...

Yes, but there is very strict rules you have to follow. The birds get smart fast, and it does get hard to kill them. Let me get this straight, most farmers can tolerate a few families of geese, the problem arises when you have multiple families of geese in the same slough and the next thing you know you have lost 40 plus acres and its only July.


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## jpallen14

blhunter3 said:


> jpallen14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are trying, but its hard when your hands are tied behind your back.
> 
> 
> 
> Can't you get kill permits in ND? I'm pretty sure they deal with the problem much different then SD. You wouldn't believe what SD GFP does for landowners in eastern SD
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, but there is very strict rules you have to follow. The birds get smart fast, and it does get hard to kill them. Let me get this straight, most farmers can tolerate a few families of geese, the problem arises when you have multiple families of geese in the same slough and the next thing you know you have lost 40 plus acres and its only July.
Click to expand...

I have yet to see one landowner have even close to 40 acres total lost of soy beans. You know the problem areas.... Why not put up fence where it is problem every year right after you plant?


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## blhunter3

My cousins loose between 100 and 300 acres a year. Last year we lost roughly 100 in two different quarters.

Its not only the beans they mow down, but any crop. The reason we don't put of fences is because its very time consuming, potential hazard while spraying and combining, and you will have to fix on the all the time.


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## 6162rk

more excuses. the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. take some advice and responsibility and change what your doing. humans should be able to out smart the geese without having to kill them outside of normal fall seasons.


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> My cousins loose between 100 and 300 acres a year. Last year we lost roughly 100 in two different quarters.
> 
> Its not only the beans they mow down, but any crop. The reason we don't put of fences is because its very time consuming, potential hazard while spraying and combining, and you will have to fix on the all the time.


You make it sound like farmers are busy 24/7, how long would it take to put up an electric fence on a part of a field you know is being targeted or about to be? Again, if your losing that much in a field yet show no effort to try and counteract the issue then losing the money from that field obviously must not be very important to you. Your potential hazard argument holds about as much water as a bucket with no bottom. Are you even aware of the type of fence that is used to keep geese out of a field? How hard would it be to temporarily move it or take it down, not very. If the time it takes to do this or upkeep it is too much of a hassle then again like previously mentioned the money lost from it must not be very important. Your part of the problem, not the solution with this attitude. Constant complaints from farmers puts the GF&P in a position where they have to try and make you happy which inturn is wasting nearly a million dollars a year, not sure what the figure is for North Dakota but you get my point.

Greed and laziness are not two quality's that go well together unless your a farmer apparently, and before you start the taking shots at farmers stuff I am not making this assumption about ALL farmers.


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## blhunter3

First off an electric fence would not be the best option since you would have to clear a 3 foot swath so the crop wouldn't ground out the fence and you would keep having to the do until the birds either fly away or die. A woven wire would be the best and that fence is a whore to fence with. And yes my idea of a fence is a hazard to sprayers because a lot of people hire custom sprayers and they might not see the fence. Fencing takes time, and a lot of it. To set it up and take it down would be very time consuming.

I fully think that the Game and Fish should help in adding the getting rid of the problem. Why do you guys only complain about the Game and Fish helping add in reducing the geese but not the black birds. I would venture to guess that they spend a lot more money in helping us with black bird control in sunflowers....


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> First off an electric fence would not be the best option since you would have to clear a 3 foot swath so the crop wouldn't ground out the fence and you would keep having to the do until the birds either fly away or die. A woven wire would be the best and that fence is a whore to fence with. And yes my idea of a fence is a hazard to sprayers because a lot of people hire custom sprayers and they might not see the fence. Fencing takes time, and a lot of it. To set it up and take it down would be very time consuming.
> 
> I fully think that the Game and Fish should help in adding the getting rid of the problem. Why do you guys only complain about the Game and Fish helping add in reducing the geese but not the black birds. I would venture to guess that they spend a lot more money in helping us with black bird control in sunflowers....


Your apparent uneducated opinion of how to fence for geese just goes to show that you haven't even attempted to help the situation and prevent crop loss. Apparently your time isn't worth not losing 100-300 acres? How much money does that work out too for you, you must be making an unreal hourly rate to say oh well to that 300 acres.


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## mntwinsfan

blhunter3 said:


> My cousins loose between 100 and 300 acres a year. Last year we lost roughly 100 in two different quarters.
> 
> Its not only the beans they mow down, but any crop. The reason we don't put of fences is because its very time consuming, potential hazard while spraying and combining, and you will have to fix on the all the time.


So you lost 100 acres out of 320 acres??? I have done plenty of work on goose depredation projects and I know this is exagerated. PLEASE take pictures of this because it would be amazing. I sometimes think farmers dont actually know how much an acre is. I have measured out an acre for many projects and can tell you that most damage is not over 2 acres. Geese will very rarley walk more than 80 ft into a field because of wariness.

Lets do some math on this. 100 acres is 4.3 million square feet. For the sake of the argument lets say you have some very brave geese and they walked 120 feet into the field to feed. 120ft deep x roughly 350000ft of shoreline length is just shy of 4.3 million. So, you have roughly 350000 ft of shoreline damage... So your telling us that you have 66 miles of shoreline damage on two quarters??? Please explain.


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## Chuck Smith

Fencing would work.....but like BL stated it is time consuming. You have to realize that farmers are putting in lots of acres. And if the growing season is good (wet soil, heat, etc) the crop can come up fast. This could mean that fencing could be too late. Unless they put up a fence right after they plant. If you say that is what they should do.... You don't know much about farming. Farmers have certain dates things need to be in the ground because of soil temp. and growing seasons. But again I am not making excuses.... But fencing is an option that would and could work. But many factors go into it.

BL.... You always talk about letting a farmer us a rifle..... I see one major problem with that. Come fall you have thousand of hunters sitting in crop fields with a decoy spread. I hope you see where I am going with this..... What will stop a farmer from letting a round fly in that direction without looking over that spread to make sure it isn't a hunter?? Because hunters set up in the same spot where a live flock was the day before or even hours before. You see the problem??

Now I know you will say just let them use them in the spring and summer..... Well you know not everyone will just think they can use it at those times and I see the possibility of more accidents with farmers or people shooting rifles into decoy spreads with what you keep asking for. That is just my opinion and that is why I think it hasn't passed. The whole "safety" concern.


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## mntwinsfan

Here is an interesting question: Do you think producers would pay for private installment of fencing? Electric fencing does work if it is watched closely.


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## 6162rk

put up permanent fencing. you farm the ground every year. (yes i know predation varies on crop type). with what crop rotations are these days you will most likely see full benefit 2 out of every 3 years. as far as crop sprayers they need to watch what they are doing. the fence would be pretty obvious to anyone that knows or cares about what they are doing. (how do they deal with fences between properties?) back to the same old way will not bring different results. is it really fish & wildlifes responiblity to deal with this? who's fault is it when you get weeds or insects in your fields?


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## mntwinsfan

Buffer strips and permenant fencing is difficult as rising and falling water depths dictate where farming occurs. I do think there should be some 5 year grass buffer strip programs that farmers could utilize. I fully understand the reasoning behind not wanting to put anything permenant around non permenant water.


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## Mafgria

WPA's and trying to kill what we taxpayers are paying for to raise those "federal" birds.


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## themaskedmallard

Well BL we are waiting on your response........

Once again asked a direct question and can't answer.


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## blhunter3

themaskedmallard said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off an electric fence would not be the best option since you would have to clear a 3 foot swath so the crop wouldn't ground out the fence and you would keep having to the do until the birds either fly away or die. A woven wire would be the best and that fence is a whore to fence with. And yes my idea of a fence is a hazard to sprayers because a lot of people hire custom sprayers and they might not see the fence. Fencing takes time, and a lot of it. To set it up and take it down would be very time consuming.
> 
> I fully think that the Game and Fish should help in adding the getting rid of the problem. Why do you guys only complain about the Game and Fish helping add in reducing the geese but not the black birds. I would venture to guess that they spend a lot more money in helping us with black bird control in sunflowers....
> 
> 
> 
> Your apparent uneducated opinion of how to fence for geese just goes to show that you haven't even attempted to help the situation and prevent crop loss. Apparently your time isn't worth not losing 100-300 acres? How much money does that work out too for you, you must be making an unreal hourly rate to say oh well to that 300 acres.
Click to expand...

I was referring to just two quarters alone we lost about 100.


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## blhunter3

mntwinsfan said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My cousins loose between 100 and 300 acres a year. Last year we lost roughly 100 in two different quarters.
> 
> Its not only the beans they mow down, but any crop. The reason we don't put of fences is because its very time consuming, potential hazard while spraying and combining, and you will have to fix on the all the time.
> 
> 
> 
> So you lost 100 acres out of 320 acres??? I have done plenty of work on goose depredation projects and I know this is exagerated. PLEASE take pictures of this because it would be amazing. I sometimes think farmers dont actually know how much an acre is. I have measured out an acre for many projects and can tell you that most damage is not over 2 acres. Geese will very rarley walk more than 80 ft into a field because of wariness.
> 
> Lets do some math on this. 100 acres is 4.3 million square feet. For the sake of the argument lets say you have some very brave geese and they walked 120 feet into the field to feed. 120ft deep x roughly 350000ft of shoreline length is just shy of 4.3 million. So, you have roughly 350000 ft of shoreline damage... So your telling us that you have 66 miles of shoreline damage on two quarters??? Please explain.
Click to expand...

Geese go lot farther this 80ft if the conditions are right and even more so if there is more food.


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## blhunter3

6162rk said:


> put up permanent fencing. you farm the ground every year. (yes i know predation varies on crop type). with what crop rotations are these days you will most likely see full benefit 2 out of every 3 years. as far as crop sprayers they need to watch what they are doing. the fence would be pretty obvious to anyone that knows or cares about what they are doing. (how do they deal with fences between properties?) back to the same old way will not bring different results. is it really fish & wildlifes responiblity to deal with this? who's fault is it when you get weeds or insects in your fields?


Who brought back the geese to North Dakota? I believe that it is the Game and Fish who should manage them and give private land owners ways to mange them.


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## blhunter3

Chuck Smith said:


> BL.... You always talk about letting a farmer us a rifle..... I see one major problem with that. Come fall you have thousand of hunters sitting in crop fields with a decoy spread. I hope you see where I am going with this..... What will stop a farmer from letting a round fly in that direction without looking over that spread to make sure it isn't a hunter?? Because hunters set up in the same spot where a live flock was the day before or even hours before. You see the problem??


I see your argument there, but if they would even only allow rifles say in one month that would benefit us so much.


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## mntwinsfan

In contrary to your thoughts, most Canada geese were raised and nurtured on private land during the first few years of reintroduction. Instead of blaming the GFP maybe you should blame your neighbors who put round bales in sloughs and put up goose nesting structures.


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## mntwinsfan

If you are truly losing 100 acres (which I'm sure that you aren't) you must be making an unreal amount of money to outweigh this loss. How many total acres do you farm?

I have attached a few scientific studies that show average losses on soybeans in eastern SD. I would venture to guess that you are not much different. You said in your post that you lost 100 acres on 2 quarters. That sure seems clear until you recanted your statement and said you didn't mean to say 2 quarters but your entire farm. Seems fishy...

HI, I'M EARTH... HAVE WE MET?

http://www.berrymaninstitute.org/journa ... 15-320.pdf

http://www.sdaos.org/wp-content/uploads ... 59-264.pdf


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## Mike Kortum

Its never ceases to amaze me how much farmers can whine.


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> themaskedmallard said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> First off an electric fence would not be the best option since you would have to clear a 3 foot swath so the crop wouldn't ground out the fence and you would keep having to the do until the birds either fly away or die. A woven wire would be the best and that fence is a whore to fence with. And yes my idea of a fence is a hazard to sprayers because a lot of people hire custom sprayers and they might not see the fence. Fencing takes time, and a lot of it. To set it up and take it down would be very time consuming.
> 
> I fully think that the Game and Fish should help in adding the getting rid of the problem. Why do you guys only complain about the Game and Fish helping add in reducing the geese but not the black birds. I would venture to guess that they spend a lot more money in helping us with black bird control in sunflowers....
> 
> 
> 
> Your apparent uneducated opinion of how to fence for geese just goes to show that you haven't even attempted to help the situation and prevent crop loss. Apparently your time isn't worth not losing 100-300 acres? How much money does that work out too for you, you must be making an unreal hourly rate to say oh well to that 300 acres.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I was referring to just two quarters alone we lost about 100.
Click to expand...

OK, so how much money did you lose from the geese? I'll ask that again. *How much money did you lose from the geese?* It shouldn't take multiple posts to get a direct answer.


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## blhunter3

I am not posting a dollar amount on a public forum. I think could can do the math.


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## mntwinsfan

I did the approximate math at 100 acres: 100 acres x 28 bushels per acre= 2800 x 12 bucks per bushel= 34K&#8230;. if you were losing 34 K per year you would be doing something about it. In reality, you probably got a lot better production than 28 per acre so the number is probably much higher. That is what the internet told me the average was.

I make 14$/hr and you can guess what that equates to every year. See it isn't that hard to post what you make/lose per year.

I think most people on this forum have come to the conclusion that you are exagerating these issues. I don't think anyone feels bad for you. I would have to guess your returns on your land have been astronomical the last few years.


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## templey_41

and ya wonder why they bury a farmer a foot deep when he dies.

so he can still get a hand out.


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## Chuck Smith

> I did the approximate math at 100 acres: 100 acres x 28 bushels per acre= 2800 x 12 bucks per bushel= 34K&#8230;. if you were losing 34 K per year you would be doing something about it. In reality, you probably got a lot better production than 28 per acre so the number is probably much higher. That is what the internet told me the average was.


This is accurate but not 100%. They lost more money.... you forgot to add the input costs....fertilizer, seed, gas, pesticides, herbicides, etc. They had more money into the land lost than what you have posted. That is why you hear farmers screaming about depredation.

I am not sure if any of you have seen the devastation that geese do on beans..... It is amazing. Now I am not a farmer. But I have seen what they can do to the crops. When he says they lost 100 acres or more. I totally believe them. When I was out in ND hunting the early goose season. One farmer told me a field he had that was destroyed. We drove by it.... I would say in that 60 acre field about 40 acres were destroyed by the geese. There was 100 geese that used that pond next to it as their roost. It was insane the damage. He was more than happy to let us hunt. Actually in the past 2 years of going out there I have only gotten turned down once by a land owner. The reason was because he hunted it one day and he also had some family that might be hunting it. So he wanted to save it for them. Most of the land owners welcomed hunters. Some even complained on how it used to be...that it counted towards your regular season. But that is a different story.

But back to the post at hand..... I disagree with the egg drilling on public land. If a land owner wanted to hire the G&F to come onto prvt land to do egg drilling.....I don't like it but that is a measure to help with depredation and will protect their land and lively hood.


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## jpallen14

He does have more money in it just like you said. So why wouldn't the landowner be more proactive about saving his beans then call the GFP and waiting? Makes no sense. Why don't landowners loosing all these beans fence their own acres if it is such a problem and they loosing crazy amounts of money? Please answer for once.......

You have poster on here that job for the last couple years was to study goose dep. techniques and summer goose behavior. Yet according to some he knows nothing. Haha. You could get hired by the GFP goose dep. department tomorrow. Some on here are brain washed.


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## jpallen14

Chuck Smith said:


> I did the approximate math at 100 acres: 100 acres x 28 bushels per acre= 2800 x 12 bucks per bushel= 34K&#8230;. if you were losing 34 K per year you would be doing something about it. In reality, you probably got a lot better production than 28 per acre so the number is probably much higher. That is what the internet told me the average was.
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure if any of you have seen the devastation that geese do on beans..... It is amazing. Now I am not a farmer. But I have seen what they can do to the crops. When he says they lost 100 acres or more. I totally believe them. When I was out in ND hunting the early goose season. One farmer told me a field he had that was destroyed. We drove by it.... I would say in that 60 acre field about 40 acres were destroyed by the geese. There was 100 geese that used that pond next to it as their roost. It was insane the damage. He was more than happy to let us hunt. Actually in the past 2 years of going out there I have only gotten turned down once by a land owner. The reason was because he hunted it one day and he also had some family that might be hunting it. So he wanted to save it for them. Most of the land owners welcomed hunters. Some even complained on how it used to be...that it counted towards your regular season. But that is a different story.
> .
Click to expand...

Many on here hunt and live in the heart of the area we are talking about. We all seen bean dep. But we all know 100s of acres destroyed per landowner is a joke. I have never seen one area that was over 3-5 acres, ever! And that living the area, hunting and fishing throughout the summer thru harvest.


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## Chuck Smith

Well I saw about 40 acres....and that is the truth. That field got hammered. There was goose tracks all through it. Stomping on the shoots and growth. It was incredible and sad all at once. Because I would never thought a goose could do that....but yet they did.

Anyway I agree that the farmer does need to take some initiative and responsibility. But again with the rise and fall of water levels each year....it is hard to put up a fence. One year that fence will be right where it needs to be....the next year it could be 20 yards from where it needs to be. So the farmer will need to take out the posts, roll up the fencing, move it 20 yards and do all over again. Or it could be under water. That is the issue with the fencing. Also the fencing that is needed isn't 3-5 barbs of wire like for cattle. It is woven fencing or chicken wire.....lots more expense and harder to work with.

Now I am not here to completely defend BL....but he has points. I am not saying none of you have ever fenced. But if you have....have you tried woven wire around 20 acres?? Not just a cattle yard or hog confinement?? Like I said above....greater expense and time consuming. When farmers don't have that time in the spring. They have to get the plants planted by a certain date for optimum growth and plus insurance purposes. So it isn't as cut and dry as some would like to think this subject is.

Now buffer strips?? Not sure how well they work. But that seems more of a logical approach than fencing.


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## jpallen14

Fencing works well. You just put it between water and beans. Yep they have to take it down now every year which GFP does currently and manages to spend 3/4 million dollars on it and other techniques that have proven not to reduce numbers of geese. Why should GFP be required to put fence up on private landowners property using sportsamn dollars? It's a broken system right now.


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## themaskedmallard

blhunter3 said:


> I am not posting a dollar amount on a public forum. I think could can do the math.


This will be my 4th time asking the same question, and now that we have an approx dollar estimate on board which is estimating just the loss of your crop via geese, not equating anything else in (so it's probably on the low side)

Is $34k not worth your time to try and prevent the damage from happening? $34k is what hundreds of thousands of people make in a year in the U.S. and your losing it, yet not even attempting to counteract the issue? Assuming that you had some of the worst depredation in the Dakota's I would think you would have an idea of how important trying to prevent it would be, yet you still believe it's entirely the GF&P responsibility? I don't think anyone here is saying that the GF&P shouldn't help in someway, or that farmers aren't busing during the Spring but as of right now it's a give give give system with the GF&P with no give back from landowners.



jpallen14 said:


> Fencing works well. You just put it between water and beans. Yep they have to take it down now every year which GFP does currently and manages to spend 3/4 million dollars on it and other techniques that have proven not to reduce numbers of geese. Why should GFP be required to put fence up on private landowners property using sportsamn dollars? It's a broken system right now.


^This. I have seen pictures/videos of geese walking into an electric fence and turning around, so the woven wire theory isn't exactly on point. The time it takes to put an electric fence up vs a woven wire fence is comparing apples to oranges.


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## 6162rk

put in a permanent fence at or above the high water and leave it there. problem solved. spray your fence line with vegetation killer once a year to keep the grass and weed growth from pulling down the fence. don't be greedy and farm the other side of the fence. in the long run you would be farther ahead.


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## Bucky Goldstein

blhunter3 said:


> So where is all of this free time us farmers have you are talking about? We can't devote our whole day every day to harass the geese. We have other things to do like, spray, mow ditches, bale, fix fence, among other things.


how do you find time to do all these laborious spring/summer ag duties with 7600 posts on a message board?


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## jpallen14

Bucky Goldstein said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So where is all of this free time us farmers have you are talking about? We can't devote our whole day every day to harass the geese. We have other things to do like, spray, mow ditches, bale, fix fence, among other things.
> 
> 
> 
> how do you find time to do all these laborious spring/summer ag duties with 7600 posts on a message board?
Click to expand...

I have seen farmers take naps in between turning on the end of fields.


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## blhunter3

Bucky Goldstein said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> So where is all of this free time us farmers have you are talking about? We can't devote our whole day every day to harass the geese. We have other things to do like, spray, mow ditches, bale, fix fence, among other things.
> 
> 
> 
> how do you find time to do all these laborious spring/summer ag duties with 7600 posts on a message board?
Click to expand...

Baitpile.


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## poutpro

mntwinsfan said:


> I did the approximate math at 100 acres: 100 acres x 28 bushels per acre= 2800 x 12 bucks per bushel= 34K&#8230;. if you were losing 34 K per year you would be doing something about it. In reality, you probably got a lot better production than 28 per acre so the number is probably much higher. That is what the internet told me the average was.


BL, If the loss is as much as you claim to be true, I'm offering to give 2 months of my time to install, maintain, and remove fences. The extra $34K+ that would be made on those acres can be split between you and I. Deal?


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## greatwhitehunter3

How on earth do you people think electric fence is going to stop geese damage?


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## mntwinsfan

Are you serious?

Lets assume that is a serious question. Bean damage occurs when geese can't fly because they are molting. All birds molt however geese only undergo one molt per year and are flightless. The damage that happens occurs when geese are walking into fields. An electric fence works pretty damn good at stopping them from walking into the field. However some entitled farmers would rather not do anything about it and ***** on online forums about how much they are losing or at least saying that they are.


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