# Which gun for Brown Bear.



## iwantabuggy

I am in the beginning phases of planning a Brown Bear hunt to Alaska and am planning on going in either the spring or fall of 2009. I will be hunting with my Dad and my two brothers, one of which will be an Alaska resident by early this fall.

I have two choices of guns which I consider "reasonable", and although I will undoubtedly take both of them on this hunt, I am not sure which one I should try to use as my main weapon. My choice is either a 300WM or a 45-70. Both will do the job. While the 45-70 would be a much better choice IMO out to about 150 yards or so, I am expecting a shot between 200 and 275 yards, where I believe the 300WM would do a better job.

Which one would you use for this type of shot and why?


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## lecub

I would go and have gone with the 300 wm loaded up with good quality 220 grain bullets. went to Kodiak in "72" and the 300 did a fine job on a couple of bears( 4 in party 2 shot 300s ) all of our bears were 175-250 yards. the 45-70 would not be a bad backup gun should one be needed in close. 

Lee


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## sdeprie

I can't argue with any of that logic. What kind of gun is the 45-70. Lever repeater? Should be about perfect. You can load 45-70 hotter than factory loads if it is a newer Marlin.


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## Bore.224

Personally I don't mess with silvertip. Kodiak Island, well this may be just the time to invest in a 375 H&H or a 458 win mag. I spent time in Alaska and have seen Kodiak Bear mounts and they are scary big I dont think going with more power could hurt! :2cents:


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## iwantabuggy

The 45-70 is a Marlin 1895GS. I reload for it and have it as hot as I can go without the groups opening up. I'm using the Hornady 350gr FN on top of 59gr of Varget. At 60gr, the recoil, report, and groups all indicated the load was too hot. I recently put a Cabelas Pineridge Lever-Revolution scope calibrated for the 45-70 on it, but haven't taken the time to shoot it yet. The load chrono'd at 1855fps which gives the 45-70 a momentum advantage out to 100 yards, but the 300WM wins in energy and momentum beyond that.


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## wmmichael20

I'd go with the 45-70 sounds like a good chioce to me, I'd evin try one of the new 450 marlin magnums or a 444 marlin all I think would do the job


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## sdeprie

It sounds like you've got it covered. As the post says above, more power might be in order, but you should be covered, and I think that 45-70 at that loading is all you might ask for in a back-up. Good luck.


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## iwantabuggy

Well, I finally got around to sighting in the Cables Pine Ridge scope on my 45-70. Granted I was only shooting at 50 yards, but I was extremely pleased with the results. I got 3 bullets in one hole measuring .491.

.491
-.458
______
.033

I'll take a .033 group at 50 yards any day!


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## snowslayer

definately go with the 45-70. it will definately shoot distance i shoot at 500 yards most of the time.


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## mrb

i WONDER WHY YOU PLAN ON SHOOTING AT 200-250 YARDS, THAT IS FAR SHOOTING FOR BIG BEARS!! MOST GOOD OUTFITTERS GET THERE CLIENTS MUCH CLOSER THAN THAT!!
i WOULD ALSO AGREE, ON A BETTER BEAR CALIBER FOR 200-250 YRDS SHOTS IF YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT AT THEM RANGES, THE 45/70, BIG BULLET, BUT DROPS LIKE A ROCK! RANGE WILL NEED TO BE VERY EXACT, AND THE .300, A GREAT CALIBER, BUT CAN GET BETTER LONG RANGE GUNS THAT HAVE BIGGER BULLETS AND SHOOT ALMOST AS FLAT!.375 ULTRA MAG COMES TO MIND, NEVER HAVE TOO MUCH GUN ON CRITTERS THAT WILL EAT YOU, AND NO OUTFITTER WANTS TO TRACK A WOUNDED BEAR!!
I TOO HAVE SPENT TIME IN ALASKA, THEM BEARS DEMAND RESPECT, AND CLOSE SHOOTING IS MUCH BETTER FOR ALL THAN FAR AWAY, AND IF YOU ARE SWINGING THE PRICE OF A BROWN BEAR HUNT, A NEW RIFLE ISN'T THAT MUCH MORE
ANOTHER ASPECT TO CONCIDER, IF YOU PLAN TO SHOOT FAR, AS TO PLANNING FOR CLOSE, WHAT OPTIC /SIZE ARE YOU THINKING OF?????????????????????????/


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## iwantabuggy

My trip is only going to cost about 4K since I'll be meeting my brother there who is a resident. I am currently planning on carrying both rifles with my bro carrying a .356 Win as a backup. After rethinking it, shooting distance wise, I was figuring the 300WM for longer shots (anything over 100 yards out to about 250) and the 45-70 for anything under 100 yards.


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## huntindog

i say take a 30-30 for the hunti my dad took down a grizzly bear with one shot 2 yrs ago and it stayed down and went straight down......and that was from 300yrds away :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


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## sdeprie

I have oft been accused of going light on caliber for the game, but even I would think twice before going out looking for a big bruin with a 30-30. A small Eastern black, sure. But any bear in Alaska, have fun. Remember. You don't have to outrun the bear, only your hunting partner.


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## oldfireguy

Since you've already received some good responses to your question, I hope you don't mind if I have some fun....
I was concerned about the phrasing of your topic: "Which gun for brown bear?" My first thoughts were that you wanted to give a gun to a brown bear. My (TIC) response is: Read the Constitution! The second amendment says we have the "right to bear arms", not the "right to arm bears".
Sorry, could not pass the opportunity.
Good luck on your hunt.


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## Bore.224

Oh yeah well heck, I only hunt bears unarmed. Thats right I find an unarmed bear and blow his head off!! 

Guess thats my only bear hunting joke :-?


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## rolly

45-70 w/ Garret Hammerhead loads in a Marlin lever would be my choice.

I have an XLR that I will use on Black Bear when I head to AK, but I will still have the same bullets. Go to the Garret website. He says they have MORE penetration than a 458 win mag. or 500 nitro express.


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## sdrookie

This is the second time in 2 days I've found someone planning on using the 45/70 for brown bear. This post made me look up the data for it and man does that thing have some snort. 2600 ft/lbs at 50 yards? Bet thats loud. We're hoping to make the trip north in a few years when the boy is a little older and want bear medicine for the trip. Found slug loads for the 12 ga at 2590 ft/lbs at 50 yards. Thats 3 1/2" loads which might have cycling issues. We'll buy some and let everyone know. For our use energy at the muzzle is more important and that shows 3700 ft/lbs!

Good luck! Be careful and post pictures upon return!


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## mrb

Well, in that case, I am guessing that you are going to be hunting sorta as a group tag! as I Am almost certain, that ALL non residents must hire a guide, family stas noesn't matter, and I have no problem with your brother taking you, I just don't feel the 45/70 as a long range bear caliber, with good bullet selection( good cast bullets, best for bears, but make sure your gun can handle the greater pressures they make!!) 150 yrds or less , will work!!, as for the .300 win mag, withy good bullets and placement, I would stop at the 200 yard range!
But as far as what is a better/ best big bear caliber! well here bigger is always better, as long as you can shoot it well!!, but if I was going to go, I would much rather a .338 win mag, due to the better hevier bullets , plus the extra Foot pounds of energy!!, now if I was really looking for a 300 yard gun, well, looking at many a ballistic charts over the years, I would be leaning towards a .375 ultra mag, tons of energy, and fairly flat shooting them bigger bullets, the .375 H&H< another good caliber, but drops a lot faster. But ultimatly, I would not be taking any shot at a big brown at over 150 yards, too big and too many bad outcomes can happen!!
Are you hunting coastal browns, of inland( grizzly's), as there is quite a difference in there size, as well as a spring or a fall hunt to concider, when thinking of a gun too!
I would think that if your brother lives in AK, he should have a grip on what to use too, however, I have been there and seen many a resident, carrying a .270 or an 06, and some even with .243's and say they kill bears all the time with them!!, but me, I would rather have too much gun tham just enought!!, it should be a hunt of a life time, and why gamble on ? able caliber, and who doesn't want another rifle in there collection, just sounds like a good reanon to buy another!!, But good luck, and yes please post some pic, and a short story about how it turns out!!


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## iwantabuggy

mrb said:


> Well, in that case, I am guessing that you are going to be hunting sorta as a group tag! as I Am almost certain, that ALL non residents must hire a guide, family stas noesn't matter, and I have no problem with your brother taking you, I just don't feel the 45/70 as a long range bear caliber, with good bullet selection( good cast bullets, best for bears, but make sure your gun can handle the greater pressures they make!!) 150 yrds or less , will work!!, as for the .300 win mag, withy good bullets and placement, I would stop at the 200 yard range!
> But as far as what is a better/ best big bear caliber! well here bigger is always better, as long as you can shoot it well!!, but if I was going to go, I would much rather a .338 win mag, due to the better hevier bullets , plus the extra Foot pounds of energy!!, now if I was really looking for a 300 yard gun, well, looking at many a ballistic charts over the years, I would be leaning towards a .375 ultra mag, tons of energy, and fairly flat shooting them bigger bullets, the .375 H&H< another good caliber, but drops a lot faster. But ultimatly, I would not be taking any shot at a big brown at over 150 yards, too big and too many bad outcomes can happen!!
> Are you hunting coastal browns, of inland( grizzly's), as there is quite a difference in there size, as well as a spring or a fall hunt to concider, when thinking of a gun too!
> I would think that if your brother lives in AK, he should have a grip on what to use too, however, I have been there and seen many a resident, carrying a .270 or an 06, and some even with .243's and say they kill bears all the time with them!!, but me, I would rather have too much gun tham just enought!!, it should be a hunt of a life time, and why gamble on ? able caliber, and who doesn't want another rifle in there collection, just sounds like a good reanon to buy another!!, But good luck, and yes please post some pic, and a short story about how it turns out!!


If you check the AK regs you will find that a relative can guide family memebers with a first degree of kinhood (which includes brothers). So I will be hunting my own bear. These are the coastal variety, so yes, they are bigger. We are currently planning a fall hunt, although that could change. According to stats posted on AK fish and game website, they take approximately 90 BB per year off the island where he lives. If I get one, I will definitely be supplying pictures. My trip is currently scheduled for early fall of 2009 (Septemberish). I can hardly wait, and it is still over a year away.


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## mrb

I didn't know that they could still take hunters for brown bears, I though that they were concidered a specialty, and thus I thought only non res had to have a guide, but good for you that I am wrong. I know lots of people that hunt many game in Alaska on the sorta party tag concept, res. tags it and they just shoot it!, as residents have such a wide varity of game that they can take on there lic at such a lower cost than a nonresident must pay , like a non resident buys a tag for the main game animal he wants, and if other game show up, they hunt with a resident, and shoot it and the res tags it and keeps the meat, but the shooter gets the head!, I know that this is not completely on the up and up, but I know it goes on! neither say it good or bad, aas the animal still gets taged ! 
I just wasn't up to date on the regs. for a non resident hunting browns!
I can only imagine the antisipation you have for this hunt, I have been dreaming of one for years, but the budget just doesn't allow, but who knows some day that may change!1
but good luck and hope for dry weather, as it rains alot! up there! so great rain gear is a must, I would even look into having the gun I would take ceracoted, it makes a gun almost rust proof, all you would have to worry about would be the bore and chamber rusting, and the price to do a whole gun is very fair! about 200, it will de value a collectable, but if its a hunting gun, you cannot beat it!! here is a place that does it if you care to look. 
http://www.larsontactical.com/id25.html
again, good luck!


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## iwantabuggy

I know this is a far cry from a big Alaska Brown, but I finally shot something with the 45-70. It is a pretty average bear for Idaho. A female that is 5 ft from nose to tail and weighed in the ball park of 150 lbs. It was a fun hunt. I shot the bear at about 60 yards. I don't think that the 350 gr Hornady FN even slowed down. Quarter size hole in, 50 cent piece size hole out. The bullet only traveled through about 8 inches of neck breaking the spine before exiting.


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## smk

eeewwwww, blood...........


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## jvn45

If I was buying a gun for the trip my first choice would be a bolt action rifle of .300 mag or greater using high quality bullets of 220 grains or more that are proven. A .338 or .375 would even be a better choice with bullets of 250 - 300 grains as long as you can handle the recoil.

I definitely would not reinvent the wheel on one of these hunts or experiment with small calibers or new bullets.


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## rlzman68

Let me put in a vote for a 338 excellant gun for about anything in Alaska


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## maximini14

I agree with the guys who say bigger cartridge and heavier bullets with the 338 win mag as a starter using 250 gr bullets, and go up from there. I'd check around with my friends or talk to the folks at a local range to see who has some big caliber rifles you might shoot to see which would work for you. I'm not a big guy at 5'8 and have never shot anything larger than my 338., but i know a 375 rum packs a major wallop at both ends, which may induce flinching. Bigger men may have no problem with that.

I find my 338 win mag to be very shootable, recoil is not excessive and theres a good variety of 250 gr factory ammo out there to try. If you handload there's plenty of other choices such as barnes solids or Nosler partitions.

When it comes to things that can eat you bigger is better, especially if you step thru a patch of alders and there he is 30 feet away and your looking like the blue plate special.

As others have pointed out, a brown bear hunt is reason enough to add a new gun to the collection.

"If you can't stand behind our troops, do us all a favor and stand in front of em."


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## jcn45

Lots of hunters think a .338 is about right for elk, and they don't bite back much, do they?

A friend shot a brown and a couple polar bears with a .375 H&H and he thinks it works fine. That's what I would use, and I already have a .35 Whelen, and 45-70 in the safe.

I had a 7mmRUM a while, and you couldn't PAY me enough to even shoot a .375 RUM.

We put a homemade brake on a .375 H&H & it cut recoil to about 25-06 levels. I couldn't tell if it made more noise since I've been shooting 50 years.


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## iwantabuggy

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. Some you may not have read the opening post. The only choices were 300WM and 45-70, so all of those other over powered guns, while great, are out of the equation. Both rifles will be going on the trip which has been slated for April of 09. The 45-70 will most likely be the gun used for the kill (should there be one). I talked with one of the fish cops at the Douglas, AK F&G office and he said he carries a 45-70 when he fishes (for bear protection). I figure if it is good enough for protection, it it good enough to hunt with as well. So did he. I also know that many a BB have been killed with a 30-06, so I am not overly concerned about carrying the 300WM either.

Thanks again for the input. I'll post pictures when I get back. :sniper:


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## jcn45

Good luck buggy. Yep, either of your rifles will get the job done as long as you do your part.

And that brown phase bear you shot is BEAUTIFUL!


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## jcn45

WHAT IS THAT DOUBLE ROW CHAIN OFF THE AXLE TO THE GEARBOX BUSINESS ON THE BACK END OF YOUR 4 WHEELER ANYWAYS?


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## iwantabuggy

jcn45 said:


> Good luck buggy. Yep, either of your rifles will get the job done as long as you do your part.
> 
> And that brown phase bear you shot is BEAUTIFUL!


Thanks, that's one of the main reasons I shot it. I didn't need another rug, and the bear was kind of on the small side, but the color was great. There is a streak down the back that is nearly blonde.


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## iwantabuggy

jcn45 said:


> WHAT IS THAT DOUBLE ROW CHAIN OFF THE AXLE TO THE GEARBOX BUSINESS ON THE BACK END OF YOUR 4 WHEELER ANYWAYS?


That is actually one of my buggies. I used to sell them. The double chain is for strength. They came that way. I think my web page is still active if you want to see pictures of what it looks like. Please don't consider this spam as I am not actively selling them anymore. Incidentally, it is also where my sign-on comes from.

www.iwantabuggy.com


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## Tyrant

WOW


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## Tyrant

Bears in AK are different than lower 48 bruins.

If you drive durable equipment, and are competent with your weapon to make a killing shot that is half the battle.

It takes more than one year to become a capable bear guide. Spend your time getting in shape and researching your AO.

Leave the 45-70 at home. Unless you are hunting over bait in the spring for blackies. The 300 winny is plenty capable for BB's although on the lighter end of the spectrum.
Norm


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## iwantabuggy

Well, the trip was postponed until this fall, but I have my tag, license, and plane ticket. Only thing I need now is the permit, which is just a matter of waiting until they become available on Aug 17. Hopefully I'll be posting pictures here in about 10 weeks. Here are some pictures my brother sent me. One is a picture of my brothers wife with bear in the background, and one is a picture just on the beach near my brothers place, and them some droppings, and some tracks. I am so excited I can hardly contain myself and my wife hopes that I don't come back. Who know, maybe I won't.


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## Bernie P.

If I were to buy a gun specifically for Alaska/biggest North American critters I'd go with either the .338 Win mag or .340 Weby mag.That said either of the two you have will get the job done.For bears I'd use whichever one I shoot most often and was more familiar with just in case I had to deal with a charge.


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## iwantabuggy

Wow! The trip was more fun than I can describe. Here are a couple of pics of my brothers bear first and then mine. The 45-70's performed extremely well IMHO. The 3 bullets I put into my bear were all found just under the hide on the exit side, which is perfect IMO. The first one would have done the job, I just put 2 more into it for insurance purposes IYKWIM. You can see all the photos from the trip at http://s159.photobucket.com/albums/t142 ... =slideshow if you are interested. I saw my first bear less than 5 hours after getting off the plane and saw my last bear less than 2 hours before getting on the plane to come home. It was truely incredible. We hunted for 6 days and saw roughly 60 bears!


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