# Conservation Officer



## deked (Mar 11, 2003)

This past Friday night, Saturday, and Sunday morning I was out goose hunting in your beautiful waterfowl state (near Cayuga) with a buddy. My buddy was out Thurs. scouting and I met up with him Friday afternoon for an evening hunt in which we got 4. Saturday morning, as most of you know, we got rained out. We shot 7 sat evening and 4 more sunday morning.

We ran into a CO as walked back to our vehicles with our 7 birds saturday evening. He went through the normal procedure of the checking of licenses and bird count. This is where I think it gets a little absurd. This guy then says that we sailed a goose over a hill and did not go look for it. We right away tell him no, that we had 5 singles come in and 1 double at the end. So there was no way that we might have crippled one. He says that we absolutely crippled one and that he was gonna find it.

Before he leaves to find this "crippled" bird, he says that we are over our limit. We said that we thought we were fine. We had friday nights birds in a cooler. They were breasted out with wings attached. We asked him if the possesion limit was 10. He said yes, but that we probably shot the 4 breasted birds Sat. morning. We told him repeatedly that we hunted friday night. He obviously didn't believe us and asked each of us where we worked, what time we got off of work on friday and where we used our credit cards and debit cards on the way out here.

So after about an hour of this b.s., he heads out to look for this bird. He comes back and says that it must have sailed into a slough. Sure pal...

Then, right before he leaves, he says that if we would just own up to shooting the 11 birds on saturday, it would be a minimum fine. Otherwise if he proves we did it later, there will be more issues to deal with.

I'm sorry that this post is so long, but does anyone else think this guy went a little crazy?? I'm curious to see what everyone thinks. Also, is there anyone from that area who might know what this guy's name is?? I forgot to write it down and now can't remember. Thanks fellas!! :beer:


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## rburt (Apr 12, 2002)

Maybe they have been told to really be strict this year or something (doesn't explain his attitude though). We were checked Saturday (and have been before) - but he checked us over more thoroughly than normal - empty shells, opened all the bags and checked all the unused shells (even opened all the new boxes), checked plugs, etc... Nothing wrong with that, but usually it's just a bird count and a license check. However, our guy was very nice and courteous - just thorough. He counted our birds about 3-4 times I think. We were in a much different area, so I'm sure it wasn't the same guy. Most of them are nice guys, so don't get the idea that they're all like that.


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## deked (Mar 11, 2003)

I understand that he has to check everything. This guy just really had a "I'm gonna get these guys for something" attitude.


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## jkern (Aug 10, 2005)

I havnt been checked to much through my life but the times I did, all but the first were pretty decent. My first time checked....

I was 14 years old and was with my Dad and 2 of his buddies goose "hunting" in south central Nebraska. We would find a flock in a field, gain permission, then have guys put the sneak on them while another guy would push them over the top of the sneakers....Hey, this was quite awhile back and have long since got past that stage. :lol: It was the last day of the season and we just got into some geese, I got one and another guy in the group sailed a bird. Being a young kid I grabbed my goose and headed for the other, grabbed it and went to the road to be picked up with both geese. Just as the truck pulled up the local C.O. also did and he just ripped me a new one. Nothing me or anyone else could say would change his mind. All he saw was the limit being 1 goose and I walked out of the field with 2, even though I was only the retreiver for the second. So he gave me a ticket at 14 years old. uke:

I did get checked by him about 10 years later and he was still a jerk. :roll:


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

I know the warden you are speaking of, and at times he can go over the top a little bit. But, you have to remember he is doing his job, and he also is the one that ensures our wildlife are protected from poachers/violaters.

Everyone can have a bad day, but I still respect every game warden that I encounter.


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## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

I think i might know who it is b/c i have had similar expierences down by my hometown area. If you were anywhere by the refuge you usually get bothered by this guy. He once threatened my dad while he was doing chores because i was picking up a tree stand on our own land. :roll:


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

You have got to be shytin' me that he did that. :roll:

You should have asked him this...

*"If you 'care' so much about these friggin' geese, then why haven't you cited even ONE farmer for shooting them by the hundreds out of season?"*

I talked to not one, not two, but THREE farmers who openly bragged about shooting over 300 hundred geese this spring and summer this past weekend (and can think of 6 I've talked before that). One claimed he killed over 400 with his SKS. The G&F knows they're doing it and could care less. Personally, I don't have a problem with it either since there's still plenty of geese around to hunt, and because I would probably do the same too if they were eating up thousands of dollars of my income.

Either way, they shouldn't hassle a couple hunters over a couple of lousy goose breasts when they ignore the slaughter that has happened every spring and summer for the past couple years. If they are going to be that strict they should be that strict unilaterally. If they're not going to care about farmers shooting them, then they might as well let hunters poach them too during the early season since we're hunting the same damn geese the farmers are shooting. :******:

*Let's face it, it's time they upped the limit to 10 a day and 20 in posession.* :******:


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## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

i can imagine being a CO is a tough job. i mean would you like to drive around walking out to groups of guys that alot of times dont want to see you, guys that you know nothing about, who knows if they are on drugs or already running from the law, or any number of other scary things. and imagine how many times they get lied to in a year, by some scum bag with a pile of dead teal in the weeds twenty yards away from where hes getting checked, or someone that sailed a half dozen mallards while sky busting before he ever retrieved one. though i dont think that attitude is needed, i guess i dont blame the guys for being a little untrusting sometimes. but i also agree with mj, with as many as the farmers are blasting why is the hunter going one over the limit they guy they are being so hard on?


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## deked (Mar 11, 2003)

i agree with you matt on the farmer thing... but the fact is that we were totally legal!! All the licenses showed that. I mean how else are you supposed to keep geese from one day to the next w/o having them spoil and still show they are yesterdays geese??


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

It's tough being a CO/Warden.

We had a similar experience last year. We hunted one foggy
day and hunted with the landowner and son. About 1 hour 
before legal shooting hour another group showed up into the
field and started to give us the riot act. Then the owner got
out of his blind and asked them politely to leave and never
ask to hunt his land. The land was posted and the other
group tried to feed us a line that they had permission.

Well, after the hunt we left 1st and found out not one but 
two wardens were after us for over-harvest. A TIP call 
from the group that was kicked out of the field.

We were back at the farm when the 1st warden showed up,
the 2nd warden was at the landowner's farm attempting to
find any violation(s). He proceed to find no violations and
then the 2nd warden showed up demanding to go through
the same scenerio.

At that point I blatently said no, the 1st warden walked back
to his truck and the 2nd warden insisted on checking every-
thing. I politely asked for his badge #, name and supervisor's
name and phone number to discuss this situation.

When this was taking place the landowner showed up with 
his son, and figured out who had filed the TIP complaint and
wanted immediate action against them for filing a false
complaint. The landowner knew where they were staying
and off the warden's went...........

I learned it's kind of like Texas Hold'em. Who is going to call
the others bluff!

Once again, tough being a CO/Warden!


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

If it was a state warden, I know him too. I'm with Muskat, he's a very good and thorough guy. Sorry you felt put out, but I'm glad there are those like him out there who take this difficult job seriously. With the amount of territory and issues these folks have to cover, the temptation would be just the opposite. He's a huntin' fool too, so he understands well the other side of the issues.


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## BIRDSHOOTER (Jul 18, 2005)

deked said:


> i agree with you matt on the farmer thing... but the fact is that we were totally legal!! All the licenses showed that. I mean how else are you supposed to keep geese from one day to the next w/o having them spoil and still show they are yesterdays geese??


You raise a good point, how do they know exactly when those birds were shot. There in a cooler on ice. Unless your over your possesion limit there's not much he can do right ???


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## ndwaterfowler (May 22, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your misfortune this past weekend....you guys weren't the only ones who had to deal with your fair share of harassment...but that's another story. I too agree with Jonser, up the daily bag to 10 and the possession to 20. Imagine the revenue created from individuals hunting the early season who would normally pass it up.

:2cents:


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## Drew Willemsen (Sep 29, 2003)

I wanna hear about it....post up Chris!


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## ndwaterfowler (May 22, 2005)

I'm sure you'll hear all about it tonight at the Delta meeting....plus Hustad and I already discussed that it need not be posted due to one bad experience....but a PM will get you the rough outline.

:eyeroll:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

GNF wardens are trying to catch people who are doing illegal things and people who do illegal things will think nothing about lying about the illegal things they are doing so it is important that the wardens ask a lot of questions to make sure that they get an honest answer that matches the previous questions that they have asked so there is no reason to be offended and as long as you are an honest hunter and give an honest answer you have nothing to worry about. I am happy that they are out and about because it helps to keep poachers honest if that is possible. I have seen people do some pretty strange things while out hunting and when I was young I too did some really stupid things. If I had gotten caught I certainly would have deserved whatever I had coming. The point being, thank them for watching out for our resource. It is not an easy job in this day and age because everyone likes to portray themselves as a victim. In my experience if dishonest people get caught they like to lie about it, blame someone else, or change the story so it doesn't make any sense because they think the whole world is as dumb as they are. I am thankful that the wardens are out and about! I for one appreciate their efforts.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

What is it in a game wardens life that is so tough? Is it the stress of driving arround hunting for violators? Sounds just like hunting any other game. If you think its dangerous you should compare it many other jobs. Stable salay, retirement, advancement. Where is the tough part? Are they bent over in the sun baking like a concrete finisher? Are they on the road for a week at a time like a salesman: coming home on weekends to see the family(straight commission didnt make a penney). They have a very good job and they deserve it. They had a goal, got their education . Please dont tell me how tough their job is. I dont buy it.
I am going to take the situation from the point of view that deked is telling the story just as it happened. The warden was nothing more than a bald faced liar! He was making up a story to trump up a case that didnt exist. He was wasting his time and my money. Get his name and number call the game and fish people get his supervisor and make a complaint.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Old Hunter, Respectfully, The game and fish people have to stop and talk to potential violators that have guns (when hunting, hopefully not when fishing). Now, that is no reason for them to be a-holes, they knew what they were getting into, I agree.
It must be a high stress job though when everyone you talk with has a weapon in their hand. I think that is waht most people are talking about when they say that it is a tough job.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

OH,

The gun thing is one obvious reason.

Then there's the calls in the middle of the night or their days off about a poacher this, deer hit this or trespasser that.

Probably the worst is the public's ambiguous expectations of wardens (and other LE) as evidenced by this and other recent threads. I can't think of another set of laws where participants, on the whole, are as nonchalant about adhering to the letter of the law. A warden digs too deep on a hunch, and he/she is a prick. If he/she coasts through the process, they're a disservice to all sportspersons and the critters they chase. We want them thorough, except when it involves us. They're monstors one minute and saviors the next, depending on your perspective and the particular action.

In 2003, at the request of the wardens, we worked to find funding through the legislature for three more warden positions. At the time, I recall ND was at or near the bottom of total wardens per total land area. RI, a state a 10th (?) the size of ND, had (and probably still does) more total wardens than ND. These guys are asked to keep critter law and order over a very large area, and get stuck in the middle of some very difficult circumstances, where no matter what, someone is going to walk away ticked and thinking the situation was handled wrongly.

This guy has a strong reputation as a tough and fair warden. I'm going to accept deke's version of the facts too. But I'm also going to accept that this warden saw or sensed something he thought was improper and did everything I would hope and expect he would when he had such a hunch.

Go ahead, file the complaint. This guy and his reputation will survive it just fine. We are blessed with a truly dedicated and knowledgeable group of folks at NDG&F, and this guy is no drain on the talent pool.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

We had a warden up here for years that everyone talked bad about, I only met him once and he was in on a practical joke to try to shake me. I was sitting in a friends fish house and they had him come and question me just to see what I would say... it was a lot of laughs. Point is like Dan wrote the wardens have another thankless job and in my opinion do a very good job even tho they catch a lot of flack from the public at times. You want a tough job be a warden near a reservation and try to sort out those problems, that is what this guy did for over 30 years. I asked our local warden how they decide where they will patrol and he said wherever the complaints and or complainers are coming from.


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## strand (Sep 29, 2004)

I feel a warden's job or any other LE career is very difficult. Oldhunter, I believe you are missing what a warden's job actually entails. Most of their hours are gathered Friday through Sunday working 10-12 hour days or more. Weekends off are a hot commodity to a warden and are cherished when they do come around. The other days of the week they are compiling reports and testifying in court or giving a local seminar on boating safety or helping a young student pass a hunter's education course. Granted the job does have some perks such as seeing the lands develop and where the best producing locations are, but a majority of the time it is a stressful and demanding job.

Like any other law enforcement position discretion in each situation is what allows them to keep their job from day to day. The most calm situation can explode into a violent one without notice, would you have the ability to diffuse it while watching out for yourself and other possible victims?

And then you have to think of the numerous poaching and lawless activity calls they receive on a daily basis. I would imagine that it would be fairly tough to leave home for a day of work at 2 or 3 a.m. to stake out an area to try and apprehend a poacher. Weather conditions, bugs, lack of sleep, etc. could make those situations very difficult to withstand. And when a scenario does arise you must have the attentiveness and mental capacity to analyze and combat the situation.

But it is efforts like these that go unappreciated and allow you to have a resource to continually harvest game year round at your leisure. Without these people I can't imagine what the world of hunting and fishing would be like.

The original post does seem like the warden was a bit over the top, but he probably had some reason that influenced his actions. I have the utmost respect for wardens and appreciate everything they do.


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## C BROWNDUCK (Oct 11, 2003)

deke, if your telling the truth, wich i think you are, that c o went way over board, im listening to most of you talking about respect for them, id say most law abiding hunters do have respect and i would think deke does also, but that c o is crossing the line when he acused you of lying and tries to make up fictional scenarios to try to pull something out of the air, i've been checked many a times in the field and id say 80% of them have been good expirences, being thorough dosnt mean being a prick to a hunter who is obeying the laws and has to listen to a guy acuse him of wrong doing, i wouldnt stand for it deke and id make a complaint, your day in the field is supposed to be a good time, not ruined for an hour because of someone trying to make something out of nothing. im gonna find it very hard for me to have respect for someone who has no respect for me, which in this case, i didnt see much respect going on!!


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

I will certainly acknowledge that a warden's job can be thankless and difficult at times. My own opinion, taken from the majority of gw's I have met, is that there is too much cop in most of them. I still believe in the innocent until proven guilty theory. Most wardens I have met, do not. Congeniality does not seem to be a requirement for the job. I continue to give them the benefit of the doubt, as the last guy he checked may have been a total a$$, and have put him in a bad mood. Even though I have absolutely nothing to hide, and love meeting new people, I can't say I look foreward to visiting with them. Burl


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## deked (Mar 11, 2003)

> My own opinion, taken from the majority of gw's I have met, is that there is too much cop in most of them. I still believe in the innocent until proven guilty theory. Most wardens I have met, do not.


My thoughts exactly!!!


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

Look at it this way........the wardens are the ones that have to deal with the violators, poachers, etc. They handle all the calls, and have to investigate reports of people doing unlawful things.

They dont investigate ethical hunters that follow the laws (with the exception of the occasional random check), and subsequently are almost forced into the idea that people are doing something illegal. Is that right?? No, but its the nature of the beast.

I would be hard pressed to be optimistic in their line of work.


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## twinterhalter (Nov 15, 2004)

I have hunted for over 30 years in 3 provinces and five states. I have never had one bad experience with a CO although I have encountered many in my travels :lol: . I have been checked by both federal wardens and state wardens. If the CO in post number 1 observed hunters not tracking down wounded game and continuing to hunt up to a limit I believe him. Every conservation officer I have ever encountered was professional, cordial and ethical. My observation is that people that complain about an over-agressive warden are usually to blame for the behavior they say was exhibited.


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## twinterhalter (Nov 15, 2004)

I have hunted for over 30 years in 3 provinces and five states. I have never had one bad experience with a CO although I have encountered many in my travels :lol: . I have been checked by both federal wardens and state wardens. If the CO in post number 1 observed hunters not tracking down wounded game and continuing to hunt up to a limit I believe him. Every conservation officer I have ever encountered was professional, cordial and ethical. My observation is that people that complain about an over-agressive warden are usually to blame for the behavior they say was exhibited.


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## C BROWNDUCK (Oct 11, 2003)

well twin...i have to disagree with you there, in 1993 in missouri, the yar of the big flood, our 160 acre field of corn was flooded for over a month and stunted the growth of the corn, when the farmer combined and tried to make anything out of his crop, the ears were so small they were being kicked out the back of the combine, opening day was 14 days after he had combined, in missouri, you cant hunt on a field for 10 days after it has been combined. opening morning we had limited out on geese and were waiting for snows and ducks when we were checked by the local game warden, he went to his truck and stayed there for an hour and then another truck came up and he and the other person came out to us and he introduced us to the federal game warden, they asked us if we knew what the term baiting was, i told him yes and gave him the farmers name and date they combined the field and they need to contact him, he said, no it looks like you have placed the corn here, i told him that he needed to walk the whole field and they would see that it was consistant all over the field, they said no problem and off they went, one in one direction and one in the other, they both came back after walking from one end to another and said, well it does look the same but we would feel better if you would remove some of this corn from your spread, i said no sir, that would be baiting!!!!!!!!, they looked at me and said, have a good hunt.
the whole conversation was very cold, they were convicned that we had baited the field without checking the facts, the farmer would have gladley answered any of their quwstions and would have been consistant with my answers


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## Nodak Duke (Oct 14, 2003)

Good post... If the story that you posted is correct then the guy crossed the line and should be kicked in the junk.

I respect Game Officers and what they do to protect our resources, but in the end remember that they are working for the people. The same people who *pay* their salaries every two weeks. The job that these folks have is undoubtedly stressful at times, but I would venture to guess that it is NO more stressful than any other jobs you or I have. It isn't like these guys didn't know what they were buying into when they elected to throw their application towards the state or federal agency. And if they dislike it so bad and have to take it out on the Average Joe like "Deke" and make up lies in doing so then they should be forced to get their resume handy and find a new occupation.

Yes, there are some officials who probably play the whole power card way too much. These are the same ones who were probably picked on in high school and feel the need to flex each and every ounce of the apparent authority that they can muster up... For the most part I have seen this will very few officials though as most are hunters themselves and have a great rapport with the hunting community. (*There have been a couple though!)

I guess this post just rambles, but I feel that the officers need to keep a sense of integrity for whatever agency they are working for and should be held to a standard.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

When I read these posts it seems to me like the wardens are doing their jobs and the hunters are obeying the rules so thats the way it should be!


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## C BROWNDUCK (Oct 11, 2003)

you know djrooster, doing thier jobs should be like opening day of dove sesaon in missouri......c o, may i see your license, here ya go, thanks mr brown, how many dove do you have, i have 12, let me take a look at them, here ya go, thanks again mr brown, you all have a good day, not assuming that i might have shot 15 and my friend only shot 9 and trying to quiz us to see if we did, which we didnt im going to add...lol, i think when something like that happens to someone like deke, it puts you on the defense for being falsley accused and thats nota good feeling to have to go through, also, i work in a stressful job, but if one customer gets to me, i still never take it out on the next, no excuses for his actions, just my .02, well maybe im up to about a dime by now...lol


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Making up scenarios/lies - really? By all accounts, the warden actually goes on a walk-about looking for what he *thinks *is a sailed and un-retrieved goose. Does he go through this exercise just for a little extra PT or even less logically looking for some unrelated dead goose he can stick on deked and his bud? The thought of that is just plain silly. No, he stomps through a muddy field searching for the goose because of what he *believes *he observed, his past experiences and because he's charged with enforcing the law. Are his inqusitions justified if he actually comes back with the goose? We all feel game violations are serious and need to be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted if discovered, right? And regardless of whether those violations are being committed by o/g's or hunters, right? Where's the line between investigating something you believe took place and hasseling someone wholly innocent?

Wardens are too much like cops? Huh? That's exactly what they are - only with a special set of laws to that are their primary responsibility.

Like I said, go ahead and file the complaint. Deked, PM me and I'll give you the guy's name. Just be ready to back everything up, because he will.

Look, I don't know this guy overly well. I've run into and BS'd with him several times and have been checked by him at least once, maybe more. I know him much better by reputation, and in that regard all I've ever heard is that he's a very good and fair (and thorough) officer - all we should hope and expect. Everything I know of the guy says he's a pro, and I just don't appreciate those who don't know him from Adam throwing schmack around here and impuning his character for hundreds to read. Maybe his hunches failed him in this case, but I highly doubt he went out of his way to hassle Deked just because he could. And, there's usually two sides to a story.

Muskat, you know this guy. Think he got picked on in school, and would you like the job of kicking him in the junk? :wink:


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## Canuk (Oct 12, 2003)

muskat said:


> I know the warden you are speaking of, and at times he can go over the top a little bit. But, you have to remember he is doing his job, and he also is the one that ensures our wildlife are protected from poachers/violaters.
> 
> Everyone can have a bad day, but I still respect every game warden that I encounter.


If everything was just as it was written in the original post then I feel there is NO excuse for his behaviour. I don't care if he is doing his job, he can still treat other humans with respect. Clearly these gentlemen are not Poachers as they were walking back with their limit of geese and the CO was going after a terribly grey area (reasonable effort to retrieve) which proved to be nonexhistant anyway. I won't even get into the birds in the cooler.

I say, be friendly, check licences, plugs, count birds... ect. Save the Accusations and the cohersed confessions for the criminal lawers.

sorry, ...bad experience.


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## nwtfguy (May 15, 2005)

I have dealt with the game warden in that area on many occasions.
I have always found him to be helpful, courteous, and above all else:
thorough.


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## BIRDSHOOTER (Jul 18, 2005)

Listen, I don't think that anyone posting here disagree's with a wardens ability to do his job as thorough as can . And most of us also agree that theirs is a difficult job. In all fairness to 'deked' I have to say that unless someone is prepared to back up an accusation with proof, you have no right to accuse anyone of anything... This is one of those cases where who's story do you believe. Here's a hypothetical scenario, a couple of geese come in shots are fired, 1 goes down. The other flies away apparently unharmed. Another few hundred yards away the goose finally glides down in a slough totally out of sight from the hunters, yet within sight of a watchful warden. Now... to the hunters they have no idea the second bird is down, but the warden plainly saw it go down. Both are telling the truth who wins. Not saying this is the case with 'deked' but an interesting scenario at that.

my 2 cents.


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## jadyer (Aug 10, 2005)

muskat said:


> Everyone can have a bad day, but I still respect every game warden that I encounter.


Muskat, the problem with the "everyone can have a bad day" mentality is this. They are doing their JOB. When you go to work is it ok to cuss out a customer about anything? I spent a summer as a park ranger and we worked hand in hand with the local co and sherif's department. Never was it acceptable for us to go looking for a reason to ticket someone. Your job is to enforce the rules that help preserve wildlife and their habitats. This being said, just because you think someone did something wrong, you need to a) hear their side of the story, b) have enough facts to make the accusation, c) still be curteous. Haven't you ever seen one of those crazy cops shows where the driver is drunk and all over the place being a jackass while the officer remains calm. Many COs forget that they are civil servants, and they are also there to ensure a fun and fullfilling hunting experience.


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## deked (Mar 11, 2003)

Well, there will be no complaint filed from me. I posted my story to see what everyone else thought about the subject. Since I was on the "defending" side, I thought that most of his actions were out of line. I did not like being accused of something that I honestly did not do or the way he "interrogated" us.

On the other hand, I understand that CO's need to check people and do their job properly to obtain legal hunting.

This experience will in no way steer me away from the great hunting that is found in ND and I plan on hunting this fall out there. I just hope I do not run into him again...


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## drjongy (Oct 13, 2003)

This was a good post. If he did what was said in the initial post on this subject, I think this crossed the line. He might have a tough job, but who doesn't...most of us work hard for our money.

A lot of the people defending his actions would sing a different tune if it had happened to them. It's different when someone disrespects you as an outdoorsman like that.

I haven't been checked by a GW since I was probably 10 years old...but I do like to hunt the "low profile" spots.


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

I dont know Deked, I dont know the story, I wasnt there....but I will have to assume that the warden was doing his job to the extent that he deemed necessary.

The warden is known for his "thorough" checks. He is known by reputation for being an a-hole, but why? Because he does his job to the best of his ability??? Because he doesnt let things slide???

So he asked for the receipts from the night before, so what?? This would only prove innocence. Most times I go hunting I leave the kill from the previous day in a cooler at the hotel/campground. I dont haul it with the following day while hunting. HE WAS JUST DOING HIS JOB.


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

> Muskat, you know this guy. Think he got picked on in school, and would you like the job of kicking him in the junk?


Yea, and right after that I could run naked into a bee yard and start knocking hives over!!!


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## drjongy (Oct 13, 2003)

My point is that you can still do your job well and not be an A-hole, no matter what you do for a living. Nothing worse than a jerk in a power position such as a warden, police, ect.


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## jadyer (Aug 10, 2005)

So he asked for the receipts from the night before, so what?? This would only prove innocence. Most times I go hunting I leave the kill from the previous day in a cooler at the hotel/campground. I dont haul it with the following day while hunting. HE WAS JUST DOING HIS JOB

We should point out that never is it your job to prove your innocence, it is his job to prove your guilt. IF HE WANTS TO ACCUSE YOU OF SOMETHING, HE NEEDS FACTS THAT WILL STAND UP IN COURT. OTHERWISE, THE CO WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO BE THAT WAY TO TRY TO TALK YOU INTO ADMITTING SOME SORT OF GUILT.

This is part of the problem when you don't require law enforcement officials to recieve any higher education. When any shmoe can go through training and become a police officer, sheriff, highway patrolmen, etc, the risk for unnecessary aggression is high.


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

> We should point out that never is it your job to prove your innocence, it is his job to prove your guilt. IF HE WANTS TO ACCUSE YOU OF SOMETHING, HE NEEDS FACTS THAT WILL STAND UP IN COURT. OTHERWISE, THE CO WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO BE THAT WAY TO TRY TO TALK YOU INTO ADMITTING SOME SORT OF GUILT.


I hate to discuss details from a situation that I was never involved in, but wouldnt he need to collect evidence (ie receipts) in order to prove guilt? Or are we asking too much of our wardens to actually try to enforce our hunting laws by collecting evidence???

I am done with this post because most of these points are trivial when none of us were there (except deke), and we are hearing only one side of the story.


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## Drew Willemsen (Sep 29, 2003)

this reminds me of police officers, it seems that most people hate them until they need them....


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## KYUSS (Aug 27, 2005)

I cant remember who's post it was but they said that LE officers jobs are not stressfull. So why is it that the life expectancy of LE's are 20 years less than other occupations. Divorace rate is up to 80%. Suicide is the number 1 killer of LE's. Everyday when they walk out their front door to go to work they dont know if they will every see their wife and kids again. How many other occupations do you know of whare you have to wear a bullet proof vest to go to work. And yes, they knew what they were getting into just like the brave men and woman of the U.S. armed forces knew what they were getting into. I thank God for both of them.

And this " we pay their salaries " thing, well last I heard they pay taxes to. And we must remember, these guys get lied to all day long. They get called every name in the book, threats on their families, ect... Now thats no reason to be a A hole, I agree but imagine what you would feel like after being lied to, told to F off and eat S#@T all day.

Yeah, there definatly are some jerks out there that dont deserve to wear a badge but its a select few. Someone also said If they arent respecting me, I'm not going to give respect back. I totally agree with you. There should be respect on both sides. If you feel he is not doing the job that he should be, than file a complaint. But make sure it is a legitiment complaint. And remember, When we are out on our hunting trips away from home and some S#@T BALL breaks into our house and threatens our family, who do you think is going to be putting their life on the line to save them.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

KYUSS, great post. Welcome to the site.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Agreed great post... go ahead and make my day!!!


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## strand (Sep 29, 2004)

Nice post man, I agree.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

You also need to realize that these people, LE officers, are not made to interpret the law. That is what judges and courts do. They are there to enforce the law....what would this world become if officers began to interpret the law and judges tried to enforce the law?

You know what, we all hate the fact that we get "bothered" by those enforcing the law, but it is a necessary part of a democracy or any form of government. Without them questioning peoples actions there would be a vigilante type mentality. We would all be our own judge, jury and firing squad.

So give them a break, they provide and protect the rights of all citizens by ENFORCING THE LAW. It is not a perfect system, but it was not designed to be that way. IT was designed to change with times and needs.

I understand that it is up to them whether they decide to interact in a positive way, but they are a policing force, just with an environmental platform. Could you imagine having to approach potential criminals that are guaranteed to be armed? That brings a whole new level to this discussion. Sure in ND we have allot less people pointing guns at each other, but then again we have allot of guns.

I have a college roommate who is a Highway Patrol Officer in Southern California...he draws his weapon on every person that he pulls over, he has to for his and their safety. Remember that the next time you think that these people have not only an extremely hazardous job, but they also serve as the buffer between citizens (hunters & non-hunters) and many other stakeholders. They are in-charge of protecting the rights of hunters, non-hunters, the wildlife, the state's interests and the federal government's interests. That is a he** of a load on their shoulders and many become very passionate about their jobs, and I am thankful for it, even when it becomes inconvenient for me. I have had my share of run -ins. There have been many great meetings and a few very tense agreements, but I am still thankful that they do their job everyday because they are, where the meat meets the metal so to say in environmental law.

Again, this is another reason for all of us here to get involved with politics, because at this point we still have a very loud voice on many of these issues. But, as we have seen in the past few years, environmental law is going to be debated heavily on the state level and it is much easier for us as sportsman to support legislation to establish laws and regulations that support our beliefs then it is to get them reversed after they are written unfavorably for us.

I may sound hypocritical on this, but again, they are there to protect our best interests as a whole, not as individuals. LE officers have to enforce the laws as established and in the case of most criminals that is a very limiting factor for them being brought to justice. LE officers sometimes need to press hard in order to pursue these criminals and may tread harshly on individuals that are innocent, but we all know that we do give up some convenience in order to maintain order. Have we all not become accustomed to airport security? It is an inconvenience, but is necessary to protect our liberties as LE officers protect our liberties as outdoorsman.


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## swany25 (Sep 3, 2005)

as a reply to the person who said that any schmuck can become an officer.

I dont know about other states but in MN every L.E. Officer ie- C.O., Police Officer, Deputy. are required to recieve higher education. And are licensed through the state.

I aggree that sometimes officers can cross the line. But most of the time they are just doing thier jobs. And most of the time attitude is added because the people the officer is dealing with can't get it through thier head that doing checks is part of the job. I'm not saying that is related to the original post.

But unless you have a bad criminla history, any schmuck can become a hunter!


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## mach (Aug 29, 2005)

I'm glad I live up north, I wouldn't want your college roomate police officer to draw a gun on me as you stated when he pulls me over on a hunch or whatever. without facts or info. especially say a stop check..he does this to everybody? Is he going to graduate from the academy?  I enjoy being a safe citizen by those who protect and serve. I've seen a CO act very swiftly when recieving a TIP. one year I was listing an owner's house when they rang the doorbell and asked where is the Bobcat. The owner's wife had ran an ad in the paper saying they were moving and were giving away Bob the cat!


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

The only legitimate defence of the statement that a warden has a tough job is the point that Dan brings about the gun thing.Any time a person is in a situation where guns are present great caution is required. If they are strangers you have no idea of their gun safety.Here is the way it goes down in my spread. If we are hunting(water of field) and the warden approaches his is treated with respect. He is refered to as sir or officer. I ask that my hunting partners(often newbies) to place their guns in a down position by their blind. No one needs to have a gun in hand at this time. I ask that everyone put their birds by their blind so it is easier for the warden to make a count. Then everybody lines up and digs in their pockets and produces their liscenses. The warden checks guns ,shells, whatever necessary to do his job.So this the story 99% of the time. Then you will find the warden that wants to play the word game that DJRooster describes. They ask you questions to pinpoint facts(fine) then flip flop them a little and go over them again. At this point things change the warden is now playing games with me and he is cutting into my hunting time. The cooperation is now over. I wont play that game with them. If there is a charge arrest me or stop interupting my hunt.
Kyuss The stats you are throwing out are not even close to that of a ND game warden. You must be talking about a LA beat cop.
Strand They dont have a time clock You dont have a clue how many hours the put in. They run on an honner system. Their superiors have no idea how many hours they put in.( the other days they are compiling reports testifing,seminars of boating and gun safety. Is this the tough part.Stake outs at 2:00 am? Your thinking of DEA.
diver sniper do you really think there are drugged out escapees hiding in decoy spreads.
So in the end most of the examples of how tough a game wardens life is dont apply. North Dakota Game and Fish people are a great bunch of people and I believe that they do a fine job. Their job is no tougher than yours or mine.


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## strand (Sep 29, 2004)

Oldhunter, sorry to be vague on the statement about the PR events that they conduct. My intention was not to demonstrate that these events were the difficult part of the job. They most certainly are not when you consider that their most common contacts on any given day are armed and possibly dangerous. I mentioned these events merely to shed some light on the honor and complete realm of the position. Wardens and other G&F officials spend a considerable amount of time educating the public, mostly youth and new sportsmen and women. So, on top of protecting the resources, they devote time to the proper use and care of them as well.

Please do not take this the wrong way because I am certainly not a warden so I do not know every aspect of the job, but I personally know a few wardens in the state very well. I have worked with them on several occassions and have a very good understanding of what their hours and average days consist of. "Stake outs" are not just for the DEA, CO's often apprehend poachers and other violators at odd hours of the morning. Send me a pm some time I can refer you to a few books that describe some of these situations.

One point that cannot be argued is the amount of stress that goes along with a LE career. This however should not be used as a valid excuse for acting in a non-professional manner because that is what they chose to do and most officials can handle the situations in the field and leave it to rest when the day is done.


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## Drew Willemsen (Sep 29, 2003)

+1, Nice post Kendall! See you tomorrow


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## strand (Sep 29, 2004)

Thanks Drew. Are you gonna make the meeting tonight?


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## KYUSS (Aug 27, 2005)

Old Hunter, the stats that I'm throwing out are for LE's in general. A very close family member of mine is a cop and when he graduated from the academy our family attended a class called " police and the family " which made us aware of those stress's. I have also researched these stats on the internet and yes, they are true to there mark. And no, he's not a L.A. beat cop. He works here in N.D. I dont know the stats on CO's, like I said the stats were for LE's in general.


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