# Savage 10ML



## 8x56mn

Does anyone have knowledge or expierience with the Savage 10ML. I like the idea of being able to use smokless powder and it has the Accu trigger as well. Primer goes into the bolt for easier loading. I like the idea of the smokless powder, don't understand whay there arn't more companys offering it, does  away with the cleaning and scrubbing issues of BP.


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## barebackjack

Their not offered in more models because lots of states dont allow you to use smokeless powder in a MLer. At least in a MLer only season.


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## Csquared

8x56, Blackhorn 209 seems to solve all the issues previously dealt with. And Jack, I had to make your day. I shot a 5" group with my 700ML today......at 300 yards !!!! And I didn't even have my scope turned all the way up to 9X.

No whitetail will be safe in our ML season next month! oke:

Sorry buddy, but I thought of you when I did it :wink: :beer:


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## barebackjack

Csquared said:


> Sorry buddy, but I thought of you when I did it :wink: :beer:


Im touched. :lol:

Thats a hell of a group for that range. 1X scope?


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## Csquared

iron sights. One hand behind my back.....

..and blindfolded !!!!!!

Seriously, it's the new ML scope from leupold. In theory, you set the power selector according to the load you're shooting, which is between 5 and 6X for me.

Get a big one before Friday !!!!!!!!! :beer:


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## barebackjack

Thats still a hell of a group for a MLer. Inconsistancies in your load could open it up more than that. Good job! I know guys that cant hardly do that kind of work with a centerfire rig.

Im working on the big one, but may have to put orange on this year.

Good luck to you!


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## 8x56mn

I wonder how many states. However different states ban different things i.e. crossbows and semi auto's, but manifacures still make them. Just seems lame. a mldr is a mldr isn't it, as in powder and shot goes in the muzzel and ramed home correct how does that effect the sport, just makes cleaning a whole lot easier. JMHO


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## barebackjack

8x56mn said:


> I wonder how many states. However different states ban different things i.e. crossbows and semi auto's, but manifacures still make them. Just seems lame. a mldr is a mldr isn't it, as in powder and shot goes in the muzzel and ramed home correct how does that effect the sport, just makes cleaning a whole lot easier. JMHO


Wrongo.

Smokeless powder develops MUCH higher pressures than black powder or black subs on a volume for volume basis. This increases muzzle velocities and energies. These increased velocities effect downrange performance, less wind drift potential (which can equate to tighter groups), and increased energy down range (which essentially increases the maximum effective kill range of the weapon). You really cant compare smokeless to real black powder or any of its substitutes, they are far different beasts.

And I dont know about NY, but in ND we have a stand alone MLer season that IMO is there to offer a chance for guys to use a more primitive weapon than during regular gun season. Allowing all the doodads and bells and whistles IMO negates the need for the stand alone season. You can use a savage 10 with smokeless powder and powered scope during regular gun season, if you so choose, just not during the MLer season. Theres alot of push to allow more technologies into MLer only seasons. But we wont get into that again. :lol:


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## 8x56mn

I understand, point well taken, but my original question was does anyone have expierience with the 10. As you know you can shoot any type of powder in it.


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## Savage260

> Seriously, it's the new ML scope from leupold. In theory, you set the power selector according to the load you're shooting, which is between 5 and 6X for me.


I shot a 1.5" 3 shot group at 100yds with my new Leupold Ultimate Slam, 150gr Shockwaves and 120gr Blackhorn. First time I had shot the Kodiak Pro with the scope on it. The shotgun setting was the 100yd zero for me. Worked like a charm, I was very surprised. I am going to fill a concurrent doe tag with that, then take it off for the muzzy season.


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## Csquared

Glad to hear it's working for you. I have a different load setup so I haven't found the magic setting yet. I'm shooting only 100gr of Blackhorn, and that pushes the 300gr Barnes to 1700fps. When zeroed at 100yds and using the appropriate reticle point for the range I am a fuzz low at 50, a fuzz high at 100, about 4" low at 200, and 10" low at 300.

I still haven't decided for sure that I won't go back to a 3" high @ 100yards setting and shoot like I have up to now, but the scope WILL work as long as I know to hold near the spine it will result in a lower chest hit. But since I am most certainly one of the world's WORST deer trackers, I prefer upper chest hits, and that's what I try for, so I'm trying now to decide what I want to do. I'm afraid if I get into a situation where I still need to "hold over" I might be better off just to hold over like in the past instead of having to remember to hold over using multiple aiming points.

Good luck! :beer:


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## 8x56mn

OK, so what does all thuis have to do with the 10? Start a new thread already.


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## Csquared

I guess what it has to do with the 10, as fas as I'm concerned, is that smokeless powder isn't necessary now that Blackhorn is out. I paid $175 for my 700ML and I can't imagine a Savage will do much better for 3 times the money.

Just trying to give you info to weigh your decision.

Sorry we've offended.

:beer:


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## Savage260

> OK, so what does all thuis have to do with the 10? Start a new thread already.


Sorry, didn't mean to take over your thread, but it didn't seem like you were getting much for feedback on your question any way, so no harm done :lol:

Any way, after I shot the 3 shot group at 100, I went in to 50 and the top of the circle was dead on. I need to get to another range so I can try the 150, 200, and 300 marks.  I am switching to the 250gr Spitfire TMZ so I hope that doesn't mess with things too much. Scope seems to work great. I may just use that for all my regular rifle tags from now on.


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## barebackjack

I dont think many guys here will have much input on this MLer here as its not an option for them during our MLer season.


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## mike landrich

8x56

Being a fellow NY'er, let me say that the Savage is a fine weapon and I believe it is legal for our late ML season. But, if you ever intend to travel to hunt, it may not be legal in that state, so why not get a gun that is legal? If you are looking for a more powerful gun, think about the Knight Extreme .52 caliber. Between the power stem ignition and the larger caliber sabots (.458 and .475 heads), it generates a huge amount of energy, compared to .50 calibers. Just my 2 cents' worth.....


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## 8x56mn

Thanks for the reply. The question of is it legal in other states is interesting. As you probably know it shoots standard BP as well, so how does that fare with the regulations? Regarding more power, I don';t realy see the need do to the fact that most of my shots on deer the last 50 years or so have been under 50 yards and in NY southern tier with a few exceptions most people are shooting sabot 12 gauges. Shot placement is the key, not so much how big and bad the projectile. I'm sure some would dissagree. Anyway thanks to everyone for their replies. Happy hunting, killed a nice 8 point Saturday, today we have snow.


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## cheapdux

As some have stated, shooting smokeless in the savage may not be legal in some states but the gun is still a hell of a gun while shooting black pwder or a black powder substitute. You have options. Which can be nice once in a while.


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## 8x56mn

I guess that was my point exactly, seems like the best of both worlds. Regarding legality, do some states actualy say you can't use smokless powder or is this urban legend?  :wink:


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## barebackjack

8x56mn said:


> I guess that was my point exactly, seems like the best of both worlds. Regarding legality, do some states actualy say you can't use smokless powder or is this urban legend?  :wink:


Smokeless powder is illegal in ND for the special muzzleloader season, as it should be. You can still use it in a muzzleloader during our regular gun season (or the "anything goes season" as I like to call it).


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## Csquared

> Smokeless powder is illegal in ND for the special muzzleloader season, as it should be.


I think it should be perfectly legal...until you load it from the other end ! oke:

Did you get one before the rifle hunters?


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## barebackjack

Csquared said:


> Smokeless powder is illegal in ND for the special muzzleloader season, as it should be.
> 
> 
> 
> I think it should be perfectly legal...until you load it from the other end ! oke:
> 
> Did you get one before the rifle hunters?
Click to expand...

Nope. Ive been having to wear that ugly orange crap the last few outings. Orange just isnt my color. 

Had opportunities, passed a few good ones as ive been seeing a few great ones. Still got over a month left for bowhunting, im not worried.......yet.


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## cheapdux

I agree with Csquared. Still a MUZZLELOADER, still one shot, still have reload time, still have to work up a load that is accurate and lethal. Just cuz its smokeless doesn't mean it shoots itself and scores a hit everytime. As far as orange goes, where i'm from all gun seasons require orange you still have to always know your target and whats behind it. Your gonna have unsafe, shot at anything that moves, unethical, see if i can draw blood, "Shooters" (not hunters in my opinion) in any season, EVEN BOW SEASON. Why would you want to put restrictions on a weapon to make it as unlethal and inaccurate as possible. if a guy wants to hunt primative let him, he'll enjoy it if its his thing. If a guy like to hunt with a modern tack driver, and finds that enjoyable, good for him let him also. If they prohibit smokeless powder, and scopes with magnification, and sabots, and copperplated bullets, and bullets that are over twice the length as it is wide, and crap like that. Then make a season for REAL PRIMITIVE WEAPONS and prohibit rifling, and mini balls, black powder substitutes. Make it smooth bores, roundballs and patches only. I mean where on the timeline does one stop and at what techonlogy "old or new". it was all modernat one time or another.

muzzleloader season in my opinion is a gun loaded from the MUZZLE


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## Csquared

You're preaching to the choir, dux...but I would bet you're about to be introduced to barebackjack. :wink:

I suspect that long ago a "primitive weapon" was a stick or a rock. And technology really took a quantum leap when someone learned to sharpen the rock. And when they learned to attach the sharpened rock TO THE STICK...well then they had to create a special season to protect the herd :lol:

We're WAY off topic, and this subject has had the hell beat out of it, but it's still fun every time.

Enjoy!

It's all yours, Jack! :wink:


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## 8x56mn

Can someone show me where in the ND regs that says you can't use smokless powder in your ML during any ML season. I have searched and cannot find any reference to it?


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## 8x56mn

Well I contacted ND wildlife concerning the ML regs and the following is their reply:

"Centerfire rifles of .22 to .49 caliber, and muzzleloading rifles of .45 caliber or larger, are legal for deer. Centerfire rifles of .50 caliber or larger using smokeless powder are prohibited."


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## alleyyooper

In Michigans rule book for Muzzle loader season it states Black powder or subsitute.
No body has been arestted for useing smokeless powder yet that wants to take it to the high court. 
I take the stand that smokeless was the first substute for black powder.

I don't have a ML 10 but think they are a fine rifle no matter what you use to propell the projectile.

There is a forum just for ML 10 shooters which you will have to google to find. They also have a special section here for ML 10 shooters and other rifles that shoot smokeless.
http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB ... m.php?f=14

Buck horn 209 isn't the answer either. Some of the older inlines just won't work with the stuff. Also some of the older inlines can not be retrofitted for 209 usage. It won't work in side locks either.

 Al


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## Dak

8 x 56,

The info you were given is for the deer gun season not the muzzleloader season. This is the muzzleloader season info:

"Muzzleloader Season - Muzzleloading long guns of .45 caliber or larger, 
and handguns .50 caliber or larger, loaded through the muzzle, with ﬂint 
or percussion ignition, ﬁring black powder or black powder substitutes are 
legal. Smokeless powders are not legal. Telescopic sights are prohibited. 
No magniﬁcation (1x) scopes are legal."


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## barebackjack

Csquared said:


> You're preaching to the choir, dux...but I would bet you're about to be introduced to barebackjack. :wink:


Heh heh heh. :lol:

IMO. If the state has a standalone season for MLer, (that is IF), than that season is there for a reason. To allow a time for a less primitive weapon to be used without the modern stuff.

IMO the regular gun season (again this is ND where we have a gun season AND a MLer season) is for the gadgets, do hickeys, smokeless powders, powered scopes, laster tasers and bells and whistles. If a guy wants to use a scope, smokeless powders, hell, maybe even wrap all his load components up in a brass case of some sort, he can do it here.

My traditional weapons are NO LESS deadly or effective than the fancy inlines and all that goes with them when used in their effective ranges. Of the three I currently have, ALL will do sub 2" groups out to 100 yards. I think most guys that make the "more effective" argument have nothing to base it off. I have plenty of killing energy and am capable of making killing hits out to that range. I dont need to shoot farther as im in it for the hunt, not the shot.

I think most guys want to use all the fancy new gadgets to make it easier. They want to be able to extend their ranges by using scopes that enable longer range shots to made more accurately, they want to use smokeless powders that generate higher and more consistent velocities to they can tighten up their long range groups, and so on so forth. They want this and that all of which that make it EASIER. Seems its less about "hunting" and more about "shooting". And again, here in ND at least, we all ready have a season for long range weapons, its called the regular gun season.

This is me jumping off my soapbox. :lol:


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## Csquared

I almost could've typed it for ya, Jack! :wink:

What took ya so long?


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## barebackjack

Csquared said:


> I almost could've typed it for ya, Jack! :wink:
> 
> What took ya so long?


Ive been at drill since friday. A whole weekend of hunting down the tubes.


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## screwgunner

well let me tell ya it is a gun for all ,you can use light loads for the kids or you can go with a 300 grn. bullet and 70 grains of 2015 and kill just about any animal on the contenet. i do not sugjest a scope with this load ! or hold it tight. i have cut my eye twice. but 40 grains of 5744 and 250 or 240 grn. hornady xtp and the short high presure sabot i can hit a 1" box at 100 yards every time. No smoke to block the view of your shot. humane kills ! i have not had a deer run any, they fall in there tracks. I have shot deer with my cva they run 70 80 yards not with the 10 ML ll . the triger is adjustabe all the way two 2 pounds or up . a can of powder lasts twice as long and you don't have to worry about your powder going bad over time . The only down side is you have to get a good powder scales i recomend RCBS scale not electronic ones . safe as long as you use a sabot and bullet and nothing else if the powder charge is to high the sabot will fail and the gas will go around the bullet . 
I love mine


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## screwgunner

I know alot of you are skeptical about use of riffle powder in a muzzleloader. I was too, but one day at the range a fellow shooter came over and we started talking . That lead to me putting a double load of powder in 84 grains of 5744 it was like getting hit buy a stun gun!!!! Well, i had to check the gun out before i ever shot it again . I shoved a .54 cal.lead ball down the barral and it was a even push all the way through. I could not beleave it. 
I will never again shoot a double load but as far as the safety of a 10 ml II I am satisfied :sniper:


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## Jig Master

I don't currently own a Savage ml., but if I could afford one, I would buy it in a heart beat. I like the idea of the easy clean up of smokeless powder, an also the fast 1 in 24 twist in the barrel for heavy bullets. Someone wrote about being able to shoot .458 and .475 caliber bullets out of a Knight .52 cal. muzzleloader. Anyone can shoot those same calibers out of a .50 cal. muzzleloader if, the proper sabot is used. I have some .475 Hornady 325 grain XTP mags, which came in a package marked for .50 cal. guns, and fired one round with no problem. I would think that the fast twist rate of the Savage, would stabilize the.475 400 grain XTPs nicely, or any of the heavier .458 bullets, from 350 grains up to maybe 500 grains. I wish Savage offered a stainless model with a laminated stock again, because their plastic stocks are kind of cheesy.


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## Jig Master

I don't currently own a Savage ml., but if I could afford one, I would buy it in a heart beat. I like the idea of the easy clean up of smokeless powder, an also the fast 1 in 24 twist in the barrel for heavy bullets. Someone wrote about being able to shoot .458 and .475 caliber bullets out of a Knight .52 cal. muzzleloader. Anyone can shoot those same calibers out of a .50 cal. muzzleloader if, the proper sabot is used. I have some .475 Hornady 325 grain XTP mags, which came in a package marked for .50 cal. guns, and fired one round with no problem. I would think that the fast twist rate of the Savage, would stabilize the.475 400 grain XTPs nicely, or any of the heavier .458 bullets, from 350 grains up to maybe 500 grains. I wish Savage offered a stainless model with a laminated stock again, because their plastic stocks are kind of cheesy.


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## Csquared

Haven't been here in awhile and had almost forgotten about this thread. I've since bought a Savage and am in the process of wringing it out now. Not surprised to hear about the safety mentioned above. I know they have been tested extensively at pressures MANY TIMES listed limits with no problems. So far I've been impressed with the rifle. 300 grain XTP's at 2000-2100 fps with 5744 are a breeze with remarkably low recoil. Almost defies physics. However, 300 grain Barnes loads at 2300 fps plus with VV N-120 have to be comparable to a kick in the jaw by a rodeo bull!


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## huntin1

screwgunner said:


> I know alot of you are skeptical about use of riffle powder in a muzzleloader. I was too, but one day at the range a fellow shooter came over and we started talking . That lead to me putting a double load of powder in 84 grains of 5744 it was like getting hit buy a stun gun!!!! Well, i had to check the gun out before i ever shot it again . I shoved a .54 cal.lead ball down the barral and it was a even push all the way through. I could not beleave it.
> I will never again shoot a double load but as far as the safety of a 10 ml II I am satisfied :sniper:


Glad it turned out ok for you, I know that earlier versions of the 10ML had some issues with catastophic failure when using smokeless powder. I believe they changed the metallurgy of the barrel and it took care of the issue.

I bet it kicked like a mule, but, I doubt it was like a stun gun. If you like I can hook you up with a 5 second ride at 50,000 volts......that way you could compare and you'd know if it was like getting hit with a stun gun. :wink: 8) :iroll:

:beer:

huntin1


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## screwgunner

Have you ever seen the guys shooting the t-rex on you tube take alook and tell me if you would take a hit like that or 7 seconds with a stun gun , at least you will passout with a stun gun. LOL


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