# Obama on gun violence



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Make sure you read the statistics then listen to the short video of Obama speaking about violence going off the charts when in reality we are at a 20 year low. It's hard to believe, but it's because of the way our media covers things. I wonder if anyone has statistics on how many lives and crimes are prevented with a firearm. Obama talks about we should at least have background checks. Most Americans are so ignorant they perhaps don't know we have had background checks for years.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/38 ... -c-w-cooke


> Obama Praises Australia's Gun Confiscation
> 
> By Charles C. W. Cooke
> 
> ...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman...

You notice that more shootings and violence is happening. Or so it seems just because of media!!

Now I am not saying theses last shootings are tragic. Because they are people in schools should feel safe and when people send their children to school they should be safe.

Yet there is miss information being reported because people want to report it so fast. That is an issue i have with the media.

Now with Obama talking about "background checks".... hmmmm.... What is the NIX check then that happens every time you buy a firearm. Are these people so stupid....wait i shouldn't be calling names. Are these people not educated. I am talking about our elected officials!!!

Here is an example.... I was watching the MN public access which shows senate and house committee meetings. They were having one and discussing car insurance in MN. So one of the Senators stated there should be a law in MN that makes it mandatory for everyone to carry car insurance. Well there has been that law on the books for over 70 years!!! And we elect these people.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Obama knows better he just knows he can get by with any lie he wants to tell his zombie followers. I'm becoming more disappointed every day with the intelligence of the average American. Remember when Jay Leno did Jay walking? I remember him asking this lady who bombed Pearl Harbor. She says daaaah France? How many feet in a mile, duuuuuh ten? What do you do for a living? "I'm a sixth grade teacher".  Look at these outdoor forms, and how many times have you heard "I don't want to talk politics"? Like someone had a gun to their head and made them click on it. I guess if some don't want to be responsible citizens there is little we can do about it.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I agree 100% how the dumbing down of the United States has become. I was in a continuing education course this week for my profession. The teacher asked a question..... He asked: Who attended the Yalta Conference??? Now this is a huge thing to know because this conference basicly set up Europe how it is right now and also put many people lives at risk.

So I ask you or anyone... Who attended it??? I will give points for the countries or the leaders... :beer: :beer:

But this has significance to what is going on right now in the world!! Yet only three people raised their hand in that class of 60. And many of those people where over 50 years old. I was one of the youngest at 36 and I knew the answer.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Halts? The forerunner to Potsdam where the allies were already dividing up the spoils of the to-be-won WW 2! I'm no board certified historian and know little about Yalta but what IS interesting is researching the now declassified stuff of what went on in Potsdam, setting up the Cold War, kind of how Versailles set up WW 2! Trouble is, no one in any country or any political party seems to learn anything from history. 
Humankind always seems to want to know if shooting ourselves in the foot still hurts!

Back to the original topic. I have no idea how to stop or even diminish the violence problem in USA! All I know is that me handing over my deer rifles or handguns to the likes of Obama or Boxer or anyone else won't solve anything. I do think however, that if gun owners don't pull up their socks and at least appear to be interested, however insincere, the general public will try to " solve" the problem for us! Simply yelling Second Amendment on outdoor websites and passing along platitudes ( we hear them every dat) sooner or later won't do it! But once again, I'm not smart enough to have much in the way of positive suggestions!
For starters, political pundits of both sides should discard the label " gun problem" in favor of the label " violence problem,". Might direct some of the rhetoric from both sides to the underlying problem!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think the real problem is once our nation begin to move away from it's Christian values it lost it's moral compass. When liberals started teaching sex ed it was to older kids and not as graphic as today. I was listening to Glen Beck two days ago and I can't believe how graphic that has become. For example one teacher put a poster in her room of a boy with a bloody face and the caption said a real man loves his woman every day of the month. This isn't sex ed this is just people gone off the deep end. This nation is sick in it's soul.

Total tolerance is total lack of principles. (Plainsman circa 1995)


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HH... Agreed. Nobody learns from history that is why History always repeats itself!!!

Also agree it needs to change from gun violence to just violence. Because look at now more "stabbing" related stuff happening.

Here is my take on the things happening in schools.... I believe a lot of these kids have been "medicated" to some point. But we never really hear about that until way later down the line. Because of laws protecting information about kids. Which is a good thing to have that protection. Yet being medicated is something people should know. Because are these drugs having side effects. Or if kids skip a dose does it completely make them have melt downs or can't function in society?? Again these are 1 in a million type cases. Yet we are seeing things happen more and more. IMO it is our society thinking we can fix things with a pill instead of installing behavior into people. It is sad that teachers, coaches, parents, etc... can barely discipline children with out fear of lawsuits, work related issues (fired, fined, suspended, etc), criminal litigation, etc. Now i am not talking about bring back the rulers on knuckles or hitting kids. But something needs to change. Again this is my opinion and it might be wrong...but it is what I am seeing everyday. I see more and more kids who expect to be handed things and have no respect for others. It is sad.

Anyways I will get off my little rant and soap box.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> For example one teacher put a poster in her room of a boy with a bloody face and the caption said a real man loves his woman every day of the month.


This isn't sex ed! This is opinion and also what are they teaching... Oral sex???

But I agree that people are losing morals and ethics in our world. People are thinking "me first" instead of what is right. I was once told something by a wise man.... "In life you have to make decisions and it boils down to this... You either do what is right or what is right for you. Sometimes that can be the same choice. So you need to decide if you will be a selfish man or one who will help others along with yourself. One is the path to growing as a person and society. The other you will be self contained. It is all in your hands who you want to be." That was my grandfather who told me that.

Also about the Yalta.... It was the "super powers"... England, USA, and Russia... So Churchill, Roosevelt, Stalin. It basicly divided up what was the "Soviet Block" and all the stuff dealing with Crimeria right now.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

The problem with talk show information like Plainsman just posted, is that when the accuracy of all this stuff is finally examined by Fact Cgecker, Snops and a list of others, virtually all of it is finally found to be wrong. 98% of it wrong! the other 2. % having a bit of truth but spun or taken out of context to have a totally different meaning! I can never stop laughing when I read the " what's New" parts of all these websites, reporting on the accuracy of some of this stuff. My wife overheard me laughing the other day and adked what was so funny. What was hilarious was the explanation and in accuracy of several viral emails I, d received in the last while, and each of these checing website as all had come up with the same answer.
The tragedy of this is that by the time these silly things and campfire stories get reported, then investigated, months have gone by and they have been repeated so many times on websites that they now become internet truth, partly because people want to believe this drivel, partly because there is no,accurate rebuttal for months. By that time they are established. MANY of the accusations we have all heard on websites and viral emails have Ben totally debunked, and no course has been found! Who makes up this stuff? 
Anyway, I disbelieve the story of the bloody face entirely! Certainly not the norm for any sex education I've been involved with or REPUTEDLY heard of! It does remind me of a gynecology joke I can't post here, ough FNO would post it in bold type! No shame or Conservatism there!!! Yet I'll bet they'll all decry the bloody fav nonsnse, and all believe it too!
Plainsman, some stuff you had posted earlier staring with some thike " I am not medical but I do read medical articles......ad nausum!" Something about sperm counts, etc. I kept asking myself " where does he get that stuff?" Then you went on about some church newsletter or something....good grief plainsman? So you get the John Birch Newsletter, too? 
Just jerking your chain 0lainsman! But my advice is to NEVER believe much if anything, you hear either on talk shows or the internet. Both conservative and liberal sites doe it, so it's important to question everything, no matter how foreign a concept that might be! 
Also, go to any movie or turn your tv on and you'll find MUCH more graphic " body face" stuff any hour of the day or night, and don't blame those dratted LIBERALS! The worst offenders, IME, are the Conservatives, hands down! Unfortunately I'm a conservative with regard to most things, but liberal on a few others. You see blood,and guts, brutality, rape, awful sexual graphic stuff, killings, maiming, racial religious and color intolerance, every " humorous show" filled with sexual iniendo every sentence, etc. 
where are your conservatives????? In front of the TV! Like the Liberals.
But it's always easier to blame someone who you don't agree with! Like me- I blame them all, Liberals and Conservatives. 
Yes, Chuck, kids learn from parents! Care to suggest how to explain how to cure that?


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Sorry for the rant! I'm just tired of hearing how the Liberals are responsible for everything bad that happens to he country. IME both Libs and Conservatives are narrow minded toxic groups , each doing their own share of wrenching the country, each not compromising, each not thinking rationally, ad nauseum......
Time to go fishing..........and nail some " Liberal" prairie dogs.......


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> where does he get that stuff?"


The one on sperm count was a magazine in the doctors office I read while waiting and waiting and waiting. :rollin:

I agree on the emails. I have seen one of them come around three times in five years.

The bloody face? The principle was trying to defend the teacher by saying the teacher didn't provide the material just put up posters and taught what they were given. Where it comes from who knows? Not me.



> Just jerking your chain 0lainsman!


  



> But my advice is to NEVER believe much if anything,


I don't, and because of that I sometimes don't post. Other times I know it's going to as you say jerk someones chain and it's just to much fun. I'll leave it up to you to decide which one is which. If I don't defend it you can guess which it is. The sex ed teacher I really don't know either. The only thing that made me take it half serious was the guy defending it.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Ever taught sex education, Plainsman? Or even thought about it? The curiosity and thirst for knowledge from kids, older teens, young adults and YES, even older adults, is amazing!
Where are they getting this knowledge now? Answer is that they are picking it up on the street, on TV since they were old enough to e propped up in front of the babysitting TV machine, while mom or guardian is watching the smutty soap! But accurate information? The answer is most kids, teens and younger adults don't have accurate info! In spite of the lip service given by parents who are horrified by the thought of even mentioning
G the word sexuality to their kids! The questions you field are astounding! Sometimes you ask yourself "where do I even start on that one? ". The knowledge they display is shockingly horrendous with little accuracy! Mind boggling. Astounding! 
Let me say that its easy to teach biology, anatomy, reproduction and physiology! Nuttin to it! But SEXUALITY! Most parents except for a few down to earth Liberal minded ones, recoil in horror at just that WORD, and what you consider proper and what I consider appropriate from being in the trenches for 40+ years is 180 degrees different! From working in this area I can only assure you that your knowledge and morality are totally old fashioned. What was the norm even f
20 years ago is now totally changed. Wish it wasn't, it would makes life much easier, but the conservative are holding up EVERY news idea and proven technique in sex education, sexual safety (rush ridicules young adults being shown how to doña condominium properly!). Presidential c
Wannabes want to stop vaccination for HPV prevention, sex education, etc. WHY? It might encourage .....OMIGOD.....sexual activity!!! Might stop millions of cases of cervical and penile cancers and millions of cases of expensive and life taking HIV, Hep C, etc! And rick Perry either knows NOTHING modern about homosexuality, or has failed to research it, discounts it to buy votes in the south, OR is too stupid tp understand it! LOL. Whenever I hear the word CONSERVATISM in economics, I jump up and cheer, but when I hear CONSERVATISM in medicine I get severely nauseated! Yes, it's those dratted Liberals that are keeping the Conservatives from modern knowledge! 
Anyway, I invite you to sit down and seriously think of how you would do a program on SEXUAL, not just reproductive, educations to Jr High Kids. What to include, how to present it, most importantly who would have the time, guts, knowlege, interest and be grad nosed enough to tackle it. I'm speaking of 2014 Bruce, not the stuffI had in a church basement way back in 1955! Things have changed, though not entirely for the better!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Things have changed, though not entirely for the better!


That's what I am getting at. First grade kids don't need sex ed. The younger you start teaching it the younger they start. Sex ed is one thing sexuality is another. They don't need to know some of these things in first grade. Kids need to be kids for a few years. We don't need sexual harassment charges against first graders because he hugged a girl that didn't like him.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Chuck, IMO you are correct about the overmedication of kids, though its not my field. I sound like an old fart when I think back in Medical school 45 years ago about diseases that are now so common that 75% of the children are on them in some places. "Diseases" that were never heard of back then. Yes, lots of things in medicine change, I readily agree, and would sound pretty hyppocritical after saying to Bruce how so much is changed in modern medicine with its new techniques and gadgets, etc. and urging him to reconsider some stuff and VERIFIEABLE new findings. But there is a lot of unverified not well peer reviewed anectotal stuff out there, too. A lot of fringe stuff, especially on the internet. 
But this ADDH stuff. A lot of it might be legitimate, but even the so called authorities are calling it way overdiagnosed and overtreated. I know nothing about it, and refuse to pontificate about anything I don't know much about, but looking back ADDH was never spoken or thought of back when I was in med school in any way shape or form. Yes, we had autism back then, not much, but it was there Even thinking back to my years in grade school I can't think of a single kid in the entire small town school who would have even been thought of having even a mild case of ADDH even now. Can any of you old guys think of any back then?? Wasn't there, IMHO! 
So either ADDH was woefully underdiagnosed and missed by us all back then, or it is a pretty NEW DISEASE! Or, like a whole list of modern diseases, there are a whole lot of well qualified people saying it is utter BS and is a social thing to nicely explain our inability to rear kids properly in this modern day and age. As a medical Disease, this group of experts maintain it simply doesn't exist, end of story
Over the years I've found that when extremely well qualified people on two sides of a question cannot decide among themselves, all peers of equal high stature, whether a disease actually exists, much less how to objectively diagnose it, diagnostic criteria, OBJECTIVE repeatable non equivocal findings, then somethings a bit fishy. Can't agree on how to diagnoses it or even if it is a legitimate thing, then how can they agree on how to "treat" it?? Dunno who's right or wrong, but somehow medicating over half the population of kids makes zero sense to me, though its totally out of my field. Half the kids?? Heck, l challenge you to find me many adults that are NOT on some kind of mood altering chemical and I'll eat my ????ProzAC?? Just kidding. Pills nowadays for everything....If pills fail there's surgery for everything nowadays, too, though it all costs Plenty! 
The occasional disease is almost certainly new, especially the infectious disease stuff like prions, viruses like HIV and its variants, new hepatituses, etc But in the psychiatric and psychological world there's new stuff every day it seems. And once publicised everybody has it, especially if some drug company 'educates" the public about it, and how good their new drug works. "ask your doctor about XYZ medication"  
Some are probably old diseases with more emphasis put on them with advances in therapy, diagnostic gadgets, etc.

Bruce, never said sexuality ed needs to start in first grade, and I don't know of any verified serious suggestions of anything nonsensical like this. But well before junior high, definitely. I and my partners did not think delivering 13 year olds in ND was all that unusual, and I doubt any of us had NOT delivered several 30 year old grandmothers in our careers. I don't like it either, but conservatives have to gert their heads out of the sand, no matter how well meaning they may be!
Bruce, looked over a prairie dog town this pm in the wind. Didn't have time to take along a gun, but plenty of them there along with a couple of burrowing owls.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Bruce, looked over a prairie dog town this pm in the wind. Didn't have time to take along a gun, but plenty of them there along with a couple of burrowing owls.


I have never accidentally shot a burrowing owl, but I was putting pressure on the trigger once when my prairie dog flew away. That's why I do not shoot prairie dogs with a 3X9 scope anymore. It's windier than heck here today.

When we talk about why things are going on I think it's multiple things. I'll choose all of the above.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Yep, all of the above! :beer: Nothin we can do as individuals, so I'll suck it up and go fishin, but only for a short while. My wife's birthday today. My dog's too! I kid Em that both my favorite *****es have birthdays today!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Good luck on the fishing. The reservoir over here at Jamestown isn't worth crap this year. Not yet anyway. Oh well I still have walleye to eat from my Oahe trip a week ago.

Just sitting having morning coffee myself. The grass is to wet to mow yet. Maybe I'll fire up the chainsaw. The drought got two Colorado blue spruce, two cottonwood and a green ash in my yard last year. Yesterday I split a ten foot length of 12 inch diameter pine with the chain saw for a bench at the fire ring. That made the old chainsaw snort and my left wrist isn't so good either. 

If it rains more today I guess I'll just start packing for a week in the Bighorns. Lets see a 44 mag, knife, saw, camera, and a few frivolous things like food, 5th wheel, generator, etc.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Fifth Wheel, Generator!?! Are you some kind of wimp? I figured you'd be camping in a rawhide tipi dressed in a loincloth and a stone hammer for bear protection, flint and steel and tinderbox ready of you get chilly!?!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Habitat Hugger said:


> Fifth Wheel, Generator!?! Are you some kind of wimp? I figured you'd be camping in a rawhide tipi dressed in a loincloth and a stone hammer for bear protection, flint and steel and tinderbox ready of you get chilly!?!


Oh crap did I go and blow my image? :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Habitat... I agree with you 100% on the whole two sides can't agree on something and some of this stuff is too new. Or some of the stuff was correct at home with exercise, choirs, discipline, etc. at a young age. So then they didn't develop in what they are now. Who knows?? Yet it is easy to just prescribe a pill. Again I am not saying ADHD or ADD are not real or are not serious.

I don't mean to take away from this thread.... but your comments here:


> Over the years I've found that when extremely well qualified people on two sides of a question cannot decide among themselves, all peers of equal high stature, whether a disease actually exists, much less how to objectively diagnose it, diagnostic criteria, OBJECTIVE repeatable non equivocal findings, then somethings a bit fishy. Can't agree on how to diagnoses it or even if it is a legitimate thing, then how can they agree on how to "treat" it?? Dunno who's right or wrong, but somehow medicating over half the population of kids makes zero sense to me, though its totally out of my field. Half the kids?? Heck, l challenge you to find me many adults that are NOT on some kind of mood altering chemical and I'll eat my ????ProzAC?? Just kidding. Pills nowadays for everything*....If pills fail there's surgery for everything nowadays*, too, though it all costs Plenty! The occasional disease is almost certainly new, especially the infectious disease stuff like prions, viruses like HIV and its variants, new hepatituses, etc But in the psychiatric and psychological world there's new stuff every day it seems. And once publicised everybody has it, especially if some drug company 'educates" the public about it, and how good their new drug works. "ask your doctor about XYZ medication"


Is the one of the reasons why Health Insurance costs so much!!! Especially the part i put in bold. Anyways I will get off that soap box.

Also you two guy go out and enjoy the summer and fishing. I am jealous i don't have lake around my area. I have 3 walleyes left from ice fishing trip to Devils Lake.


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