# Babe Winkleman busted using 2 way radios on big game



## Wyoming Willie (Apr 22, 2004)

DNR cites Winkelman, two others
By VINCE MEYER
Outdoors Editor

Babe Winkelman, a well-known Brainerd area angler and host of his own television fishing show, and two other Brainerd area residents have been cited for unlawfully attempting to take game animals with the use of two-way radios.

The citations were issued in November near Perham in Otter Tail County, where Winkelman owns land. Dennis Lang, DNR conservation officer, said he issued the citations after getting complaints from two local landowners who allegedly heard Winkelman converse on two-way radios with other members of his hunting party, including his wife, Kris Winkelman, and friend, Mike Martin.

Lang said he stationed himself near Winkelman's land on the morning of Nov. 15, opening day of the Zone 4B firearms deer season, but heard nothing unusual. He returned Nov. 16 at 7:45 a.m. and said he heard the following conversation.

Female voice: "You called, dear?"

Male voice: "There's absolutely nothing moving. I'm going to make a drive. Mike, stay in your stand."

Interference momentarily interrupted the transmission, Lang said, but when it cleared he said he heard the following:

Male voice: "Be there by 8:30. It will take me half an hour."

Female voice: "Why don't I get in quicker and we can make it quicker?"

(Pause) Male voice: "Did you copy, Kris?

Female voice: "Yes, I did."

Minutes later, Lang said he heard the following:

Male voice: "Hey Babe."

Male voice: "Yeah."

Male voice: "Do you want help with the drive?"

Male voice: "I'm going to drive, get them up and out of their beds. Thanks for asking."

Female voice: "I'm in my stand, loaded, and ready to go."

Later, Lang said he followed Kris Winkelman as she drove in a vehicle to a stand occupied by Martin. Winkelman also was there. Citations were issued at that time. When Lang read Winkelman notes of the conversation he had overheard, he said Winkelman admitted to saying the words.

But Wednesday, Winkelman said he made just one of the statements Lang attributed to him, that the conversation was taken out of context, and that other transmissions he made with Kris, Mike and other members of the party were not recorded by Lang.

"What happened," Winkelman said, "is Kris got her deer Saturday. She slept in the next morning. I called her about 8:30 and said nothing was happening, that I would walk the creek and get them out of their beds. I said if she wanted to she should go to the west stand, the same stand where she shot her deer. She called me back later and said she was heading out. When I heard that, I turned off my radio, got out of my stand and did my walkabout.

"We have six kids, four adults and an 81-year-old grandpa hunting with us," Winkelman said. "With that many people in the woods I want to know who's in what stand, when they get there and when they're leaving. I want to know if everything is OK. That's how we use our radios."

Through his attorney, Dennis Lothspeich, of Brainerd, Winkelman tendered an "Alford" plea agreement, which allows a defendant to enter a plea while at the same time maintaining his innocence. An "Alford" plea is an acknowledgment by a defendant that the state has enough evidence that, if presented to a jury, the jury could find that person guilty. The plea agreement will result in the two Winkelmans and Martin not being convicted.

Lothspeich also filed a motion to dismiss on the grounds that the statute is "void for vagueness." He said the DNR law disallowing two-way radios for the taking of big game animals is unclear.

"If you're going to make something illegal," Lothspeich said, "you should let people know what conduct is and isn't prohibited. For the record, I think we would have won this case."

Winkelman agrees that the law is vague and said he asked Lang to clarify the law at the time of his arrest.

"I said if we can't use our radios for safety then what can we use them for," Winkelman said. "He said, 'If you're in your stand and have a heart attack you can call and they'll come and get you.' ''

Winkelman originally entered a not guilty plea on Nov. 23 and was to have appeared in Otter Tail County District Court on Dec. 2. But after entering the plea agreement his next court date was set for May 7. Court costs of $500 will be split between Winkelman, Kris Winkelman and Mike Martin, Lothspeich said.


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## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

Was that in Minnesota? What other states have made it a violation to use the two way radios. That is the first I have ever heard of that. We use them all the time to talk back and forth while we are in the tree stands. 
I guess if it is illegal, then you should abide by it , but I don't understand the big deal. If they would have said before the hunt, "hey if we don't have any luck before then, at 8:30 I will get down out of the stand and do a drive towards your tree stand" then that would be ok, but it is not because they said it on a radio?


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

I always thought it was illegal but you see it on videos and hunting shows a lot.


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## snowflake (Apr 2, 2004)

I'ts always been illegal in Mn. to use two-way radios for the pursuit and taking big game,as long as I can remember.Although the law may be vague,it is plain and simple to those of us that follow the law to the letter,and not have expensive attorneys to find loopholes for us!!


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Waterfowl too! You can't be telling your buddies on the radio that the birds are coming in from their left side.

On the other hand, we use them just to chat and tell the other guys across the field how we missed or got a few. I don't think that is "pursuing" wild game. It's just chatting about the hunt.


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Only in MN is it illegal to help your friends and family harvest their own deer but you can shoot it for them! Makes alot of sense to me! :eyeroll:

Just my :2cents:


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## snowflake (Apr 2, 2004)

I'm not sure,but I believe the waterfowl issue may have a federal statute as well!For me I'd just as soon leave them home and not have to worry about it.It's not illegal to help someone in Mn. to get their deer,but using radios to do it is.Also I'm quite sure it is illegal in other states as well,not just Mn.!


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

So what's the deal with these, you can't even carry one ??? I could see how they would come in handy if you are party hunting for deer, not so much in the pursuing of the game but just to let the other guys know you may be filled out after the last shot taken. In a crowded woods they would be usefull. I don't know, I say if it could save accidents in the woods or save a life out in the field somewhere why not legalize them. When you think about everything else today being legal as far as equiptment goes really what's the difference?? Fish finders, underwater cameras, motion decoys, range finders. Can any of those pieces of equiptment possibly save a life in an emergency?? I don't think I'd use one too often anyway, (can always carry the cell phone) but the option would be nice.


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## Rangers (Dec 13, 2003)

The problem with the use of any type of electronic communicaitons in the hands of unscrupulous persons is they are used to give a distinct advantage. For example, three drivers pushing a river bottom that winds through the middle of a section. Big buck jumps up, runs north down fence line. Jump on radio, tell guys in pickup, "get to the fence line, here he comes. " Drive like hell, throw it in park, jump out and blaze away. Have seen it happen with cell phones, two ways and CB's. 
Believe it would be the same anywhere you used it, woods or prairie.
If you can't get them by fair chase, you don't deserve them. 
But when it comes to big racks, for at least some, common sense goes out the window and anything goes.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Well in cases like that I could see why they should be illegal. I can't understand why some people call that hunting. There's the few bad apples theory again.

That's too bad about Babe, I always liked his show, and his dew. :fro:


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2004)

No Radio's in WI either. Makes it more of a challenge for deer w/o radio's since deer are a dime a dozen there. :lol:


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

You can use them in Wi, You can't say here comes a deer but you can use them to communicate for help to drag a deer out or what time to meet for lunch. Basicaly you can't aid the hunt but you can aid the hunter.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

I like having the radios for deer hunting here in ND. When pushing large cattail/crp sections here it really helps so the posters can know where everyone is at. Another reason I feel better having them is one of the guys in our hunting party had heart surgery and some others are in their middle 50's so they are a comfort to have in case of an emergency. Finally there are so many deer now in ND that they are talking about all these extra tags for the upcoming fall so if the radios are used to take some more deer is that a bad thing?? I don't blame Babe as a lot of people use them.......


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## Wyoming Willie (Apr 22, 2004)

Frankly, I blame Babe and anyone else that finds using technology to take game "easier".

I dont understand the mentality of "anything it takes to win the game" which seems to be what hunters and fishermen these days fight over to own, including underwater cameras, radios, infrared heat seeking venison missiles, etc.

Whatever happened to developing SKILL to take the game? Whatever happened to learning your prey to take them, vs using radio controlled goose decoys, deer decoys, etc?

Why is it that todays hunter thinks they need all this stuff when hunters of the past did fine with rocks, bows and blackpowder? The only thing that has changed is that there are more hunters and...more game.

Winkleman knew the laws in Minnesota. He broke them. He got out of them because he used an attorney, but the DNR agent did his job and did it right. He apprehended a person using illegal methods to hunt. Winklemans no different than the rest of us, he just thinks he is. On top of that, if it was you or I arrested, we would have paid a MUCH stiffer fine and penalty, I guarantee you. His notoriety bought him a way out of it, and the attorney helped.

Its time you as hunters start thinking about hunting and fishing, vs how much gear you can buy to find the game easier. Screw that. Learn your prey and you will do much better than these fools with their $800 electronic callers and $$700 hunting outfits and their $2000 shotguns.

This is about ethics, whether any of you agree or like it, its exactly the backbone of this whole issue. Myself...I hunt waterfowl with a blackpowder shotgun muzzleloader and its 10x as much fun as when I thought that I had to be a "catalog hunter." I bow hunt with a long bow and make my own arrows and points. Am I better than you? No. But I bet I have just as much fun...or more.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Opinions on using this technology today for hunting is definately going to vary quite a bit. Wyoming, I do agree with you but not quite to those extremes, but good for you. :thumb: I say make the radios legal to those older hunters with health problems somehow, otherwise I'm not a big fan of them. To bowhunt with a long bow is definately holding on to the heritage of the sport, and that's great. I could consider myself (because I bow hunt) an old fashioned style of hunter, but because I shoot with sights and a release how old fashioned does this make me?? I personally feel that I owe it to the deer to put that arrow in the vital zone and make it a quick kill. Maybe with the long bow you can do the same, but I shot without sights when I first started out and just wasn't ever satisfied with my consistancy so I went down the technology path and have the confidence the animal deserves every time I take to the woods. I have never fished with a fish finder in my life. :shake: It's not what I want to do. Just whatever makes the certain individual comfortable while doing there thing I guess is the bottom line. Either way you're hunting or fishing.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Some good points guys. Willie it is great the way you hunt, but conditions vary state to state. I believe that in ND the radios are great way to keep in contact with people in your party and to keep everyone safe. When guys are spread in the field and you can't see them it is reassuring to know where it is safe to shoot. A person still has to shoot the rifle and hit the target, and here where the ground is more wide open and flat a deer at 100 yards on a dead run can be a tough shot. I think technology make life better and I am convinced that the radios make hunting a lot safer.


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## Rangers (Dec 13, 2003)

Just like anything there are ways to abuse an otherwise useful tool or piece of technology. If one could be assured of responsible use, I would see no problem. However, I have seen more than one deer outsmart a group of hunters that probalby would not have had a chance had the use of a electronic communication been employed. I say if your gun is loaded the radio should be shut off, tough to enforce but then again the responsible guys are not the ones you have to worry about.


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## Nodak Duke (Oct 14, 2003)

I think this whole idea is blown WAY out of proprtion... I'd like to know just how much money MN will have expended in this whole ordeal when it is all said and done... And in the end, they won't even get a conviction! The COs need to focus more on the real poachers and game hogs who tarnish the sports of hunting and fishing and their image. What I see here is a jealous landowner and a CO who is merely looking to make the "big bust" of Babe... :eyeroll:

I personally agree with Eric... MN has an overpopulation problem of deer (where 5 tags may be given to a single individual) so this should really not even be an issue.

Babe may be a bit of a goof, but he is not a poacher nor does he need to be treated like one.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

I agree NODAK DUKE!!The issue here was safety not the taking of big game! Deer hunting is very dangerous sport! VERY DANGEROUS! and if we can better improve the fact that some people do get shot while hunting thenI'm all for it! Saving lives or atleast improving safety is needed!ESPECIALLY in MN!

Last fall we were pushing a huge field and I harvested my buck, well the rest of our group kept pushing and one of our friends got seperated and we couldn't find him, he did have a radio and it made it easy to find him. With out them, we might have left him out there!

Mav....


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## Rangers (Dec 13, 2003)

Gentlemen, Using electronic ommunications to aid in the taking of game is poaching by statute in MN. This case was charged out by the County Attorney office. The complaint would not have been filed if they thought the radio's were being used strictly for safety purposes.
Mr. Winkleman entered an Alford plea, which basically means he accepts responsibilty without entering a plea of guilty. The county and the state benefit both financially and make their point that this conduct will not be tolerated when discovered. Without a full blown trial, which does cost a lot of money. You can rationalize all you want about using electronic communication, but when you use it to aid in the taking of game, it is wrong. The nieghbors did the right thing making the report to the wardens.


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## Guest (Apr 25, 2004)

Mav, if deer hunting, or any hunting for that matter, is so dangerous, why does it register as one of the safest sports today? I'd say having 5 guys laying in blinds with their gun barrles pointed in the decoys is more dangerous.

Anyways, it's basically over, he'll plead, pay his fine, lawyers, etc. The state will make their money and keep overpaying their judges, DA, and everyone else. The only thing damaged will be Babe's image.


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## snowflake (Apr 2, 2004)

How in the world can people get seperated in a field!!!!!?????Lord only knows what would have happened if you would throw a tree or two into the equasion,you all would have been turned around and the search partys would have to be called up.Babe Winkleman BROKE THE LAW,what part of that don't y'all understand.Maybe the inverted way of thinking that I've witnessed throughout the many Forrum subjects& topics,explains why there is confusion as to Babe's guilt,how about the fact that HE ADMITTED IT!!!!!!!!


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

You're my boy Mav!!! I understand it is a law in MN and if guilty then a person should have to face the fine etc. I have to agree with Mav about them helping with safety. I know more than a few times where I have been pushing a field and was told of a car coming, another party in the field etc. that I couldn't see. With rifles carrying the way they do it is better to have a tool that makes things safer for everyone.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

I have to agree with Eric and Mav. Safety is ALWAYS an issue. If it is not in your group then I have no re-course but to say, hummmppphhhh!


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## Wyoming Willie (Apr 22, 2004)

So then...what...you are promoting that all hunters start wearing what? Headset mics and transmitters? And maybe throw in a homing device and infra red beacon?

Hunters have become SO dependent on technology that I am not sure they are even really hunting anymore. It seems more like they are just counting on the electronics and gadgets to do it for them.

It seems that alot of you can justify Winkleman breaking the law, in his home state, using radios, by applying North Dakota law and scenarios to HIS situation. Follow me here? The law is a Minnesota law, but eventually will become an issue in other states due to doofus's like this one that broke the law and made it a visable issue.

Using technology to take game *should* be outlawed. Period. Force hunters and fishermen to utilize skill, not cameras, radios and Taser/Water stun guns to harvest fish. An extreme, sure...but every situation is going to get taken to that extreme by someone...just like our buddy Winkleman.

The guy that invents a radio that cant be used when there is ammo in your gun will get my vote for product of the year.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Come on guys Babe broke the law
as far as safety issues when hunting the first rule i was taught when i got my first gun is "IF YOU ARE NOT SURE WHAT YOU ARE SHOOTING AT DON'T PULL THE TRIGGER" !! Todays technology allows us to have spotting scopes and binoculars that you can clearly for great distances, and how about knowing about and scouting the area you are going to be hunting, lets think about this for a bit. Hunting today allows us to kill an animal in its tracks at 250 yards+, technology has provided us this ability, if we want to use more technology lets call it Killing instead of Hunting.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Whatever. Someone still has to pull the trigger and hunt the animal. As far as applying ND law some of us are just giving an opinion and not saying how another state should regulate. Also please spare me with this attitude about using electronics etc. and the right way to hunt. A person still has to know how to hunt and fish and technology doesn't catch/shoot for them. :roll:


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Open field I agree with your not pulling the trigger if not sure but sometimes a person doesn't see everything. I don't know about the 250 yards as I have trouble with 100 :wink:


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

If Babe was not a high profile individual, this would not even been
a thread. He got busted for a stupid reg! The deer herd in Mn is
completely out of wack for the doe to buck ratio. That should be
the concern for the DNR and not worry about using radio/cell
phones for deer hunting. Babe got busted for something 
THOUSANDS of deer hunters use illegal every year. I talked
to a CO buddy and he even admits the reg is stupid and hard
to prove in court.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

To me if a sportsman wants to take game with more technology, that should be up to the sportsman to decide. When you take a shot, You know what went into getting that shot and if you are proud of how you got it then be proud. for those who don't use the technology, be proud as well. Safety features are out there to use and if a hunter can feel safer with a radio, that should be there option. As far as the outlaws who use them to chase down deer or whatever they are after, they will still do it, just with a different device if they have to.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Eric I respect your opinion. There will always be questions that arise what a person views as right or wrong, the law may be a bad one in the opinion of some. however right now today it is a law, if those involved don't like it, get it changed if it is not the best for the masses. I was not telling you how to hunt!!!!! Hunt however you like!!!!! Use all of the friggin electronics you want!!!! I was stating an example of how I hunt, and making a suggestion.


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## Niles Short (Mar 18, 2004)

i have to agree with Willie and Ranger. the truth of the matter is that there is a law prohibiting 2 way radios and when you take the oath to hunt you also assume the resposibility of following the law -whether you believe in it or not. Also at the rate of technolgy in the field as it is going, i.e. underwater cameras, gps, radios, etc. - where will it lead us to? Hunting and fishing in our kids future will never be the same. We must protect it, and this goes the same for obeying the laws. Some people feel that baiting, electronic calls, shooting out of cars, night shooting, and Claymore mines should be legal since there are 'so many deer'. Remember - bottom line- Babe broke the law and stood up and took the consequences by pleaded guilty to it


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

#1 Waterfowler , It is a fact that more people have died during a deer hunt than sitting in decoys!Random bullets flying every where!Hell MN is a small war zone when rifle season is around. How blind can you be to see that shot guns patterns do not travel as far or have the impact at 100yds, that a high power rifle does! Don't be ignorant! Or stupid! :eyeroll: And in fact if you feel that way then I really don't want to be next to you in a blind! 5 guys lined up in a row with all there guns facing the same way and all using them at the same time, compared to one person firing in random directions and not knowing what or who might be behind that deer, or off in the woods. Don't forget that rifle bullets deflect and you have no control over that! :withstupid:

To all who have problems with it, try to stop using all this tech. that we are talking about! GPS, Range Finders, New digital maps, Binoculars, scopes...ect.

So what do you think the headlines would have been if he had shot his wife who was coming up to the stand to check on him! Or some one else in the woods who didn't know she was out there?

Safety people!!!
I will use/do anything I can to prevent an accident!!
Sure beats shooting a friend.....

Mav....


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Open field my post was in response to Willie's not yours. I agree with you that it is the law, and if people don't like it they can try to change it.

Thanks Willie for telling us the correct way to hunt.....


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## Mr. B (Mar 16, 2004)

To me it seems simple hunt as safely as possible with in the law. If you can not hunt safely then you should not be in the woods!

The group of guys that I hunt with does not use radios. A few of of us to carry cell phones but those are mostly used to call the wife while we are away from the rest of the hunting group so we do not get grief about it. There have also been a few fantasy football trades made from the deerstand. The second weekend of the season is a little more relaxed than the first.

I hunted years with a cellphone or a radio. Never even thought about using one. The law says you can not use one to aid in the taking of game so that is how it is. If people do not agree with the law then feel free to work to change it. But until it is then we have to abide by it.

As far as people using technology to hunt that is up to each idividual. As long at it is legal to use the technology then I do not have a problem with it. If you as a hunter has progressed to the point that you want to make the hunt more challenging by using less technology great. For me I am going to stick with scouting, treestands and my grandfather's 30-06 semi-auto. Although I am thinking it might be time for a muzzleloader?


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

The more thought I give this topic the more I feel the need for the law to change and to make the radios legal to use. Why? I don't think some of you on this topic have gun hunted the Minnesota deer season. We are lucky to have private land to hunt, so *I DON'T WORRY ABOUT MYSELF BEING SAFE, I WORRY ABOUT THE OTHER GUY NOT BEING, OR BEING LOST AND IN A PLACE WHERE HE OR SHE ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE.* There is a lot of brush in the hills and sh*t can happen, period. Lets face it, I remember way back in the good old days when Dad would come home with the old RED coat (not blaze orange). He would be lucky back then to see a whitetail doe, and if you shot one you were on the front page of the paper. There is a house today sitting on top of the land where I shot my first deer. Now that deer population is what it is and you are almost guaranteed success everyone and there cousins are gun hunting and some of them shouldn't be allowed to carry a sling shot. Times are different and it's a shame that it is this way, but during this season in Minnesota I would feel safer knowing the gang in the next valley over all had them and kept in contact with each other. There are 100 illegal ways to shoot deer. This will make it safer out there in my opinion.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

For you city slickers out there. 8) I worry about some of you guys. :lol:


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

I am sorry Eric! I didn't mean it to sound as if i was jumping on you, I think GP's post is correct safety is the most important thing if it is a bad law change it. I have hunted deer in MN and it is very different I had the luxury of hunting private land and i knew there was only the three of us out there and we were in tree stands, I did it more for the experience. we all filled our tags. ya know they make GPS tracking devices for criminals why couldn't we have GPS tracking for deer hunters? i bet they would probably cost way to much. :beer:


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## snowflake (Apr 2, 2004)

'RIGHT-ON G.P., but you forgot a pic of the WINNEBAGO,the 4-wheeler,the deer feeder,and last but not least,the string to follow back to the Winnie!!!


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

GP that waterproof match lighter might be stupid but it sure could save you *** when you are up elk hunting, wet matches= no fire :eyeroll: . I know ALOT of elk guides carry those.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Yeah, I bought one for my wife when we went out bowhunting for Elk in Wyoming. I put it in her back pack. $3.99 for something that could save a search posse the trouble seemed like a smart investment.  She did good anyways. (Just in case she sneaks on here) :lol:

As far as this Babe Winkleman thing goes. I'm actually glad it was brought up. It only helped me start thinking about how dumb this particular law is.


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## Wyoming Willie (Apr 22, 2004)

Help me understand how a radio will help you hunt safer?

Secondly, the rule of the gun is simple...never shoot at something unless you know what it is. Therefore, what difference will a radio make?

Lastly, Eric, I am sorry you take my thoughts on the subject personally. I thought it was an open forum since I see you and others offering your opinions freely...

There must be a reason why my opinions offend you... why is that, Eric? Is it because you own and use a lot of technology to hunt and fish? You surely have taken my comments very personally, it seems and I am of the perception that forums were for discussion, not shooting personal barbs at each other.

Enlighten me, if you will, why you are taking my posts personally.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Wyoming Willie said:


> Help me understand how a radio will help you hunt safer?
> 
> Secondly, the rule of the gun is simple...never shoot at something unless you know what it is. Therefore, what difference will a radio make?


I will be happy to tell you how a radio will make things safer. 
As I posted a bit ago, I worry about the lost hunter who is in a place where he or she is not supposed to be. MEANING: When I am hunting my own piece of property and I know that myself or my partner are the only hunters in the area, I know which directions are safe to shoot towards. (You need to realize in some places you cant see through the brush past 30 yards) There could easily be a lost hunter behind this stuff I can't see. Just picture for a moment a nice buck running through the brush in front of you and all of a sudden a flash of blaze orange appears in line with the deer, in the opposite direction of where your partner is. I hope I see it before I shoot, but just as important, I hope he or she sees ME!!!! but how many don't?? These situations could easly be avoided if the lost hunter was able to stay with the party with the aid of a radio, and on the right side of the property line. I can't explain the safety issue any clearer than this. I like to know where everyone is. It's that simple. As far as the technology today with hunting. I posted before Wyoming that the way you hunt is great and everything but with all do respect, when my tag is filled with the deer of my choice, (Some years no deer at all, depending on what I want) I doubt that your cold one tastes any better than mine does. (nothing personal) :lol:

:beer:


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## Niles Short (Mar 18, 2004)

I guess it is okay to have 2 way radio in the field. Then you can always tell someone that there is a bullet on its way and its time to get down.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Not sure what to make of that post there Niles, :huh: but if you are slamming mine, you should read it again. Throw a spear and yell down the hill if it helps keep you and others around you out of the obituaries. What does this matter if they are legalized anyway??? Would anyone be forced to use one??? Hunt without one and tell the story how you did it the old fashioned way, It should be your option. Do some against technology not use scents or new camo patterns?? How about your boots?? Old leather mocks or Goretex?? Gloves?? If we want I could go on and on. Technology is there to use and in some form or another everyone uses it, some just more than others.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Seems to me that lots of people hunted for lots of years without radios and lived to tell about it. 
I personally am not a huge fan of a bunch of toys in the woods.
Rather rely on common sense I guess.
Safety? Golfing is more dangerous than hunting statistically speaking.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

I hear ya Bert, but have you seen some of the clowns that are out there these days?? Trust his common sense???? NO WAY!!! Even scarier is trusting his kids. :eyeroll: Keep this in mind. You don't have HUNTERS in the field these days like you used to. You have meat shooters!! Big difference. Back when harvesting a whitetail meant something and the deer population was low, only hunters went after them. NOT ANYMORE!!! Deer are easy picking now, and if Billy Bob can now use Jr. as a little deer driving tool, he is. Ethics have gone down hill, I'll trust hunters I've hunted with and that's it.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

GP
I disagree. I believe that hunters today are more careful and better trained than they were in days of old. There are more of em and they are more mobile but Id say that overall, the interest in safety has increased as well.
I think that many sportsmen today (hunters and fishermen) are addicted to technology. Many are convinced that they cannot function without it. 
Certianly, if you brought some wheezing old duffer with an O2 tank out for a romp in the woods, a cell phone or radio would make sense. 
If you have a bad back or legs or lungs, a 4 wheeler would be a good idea.
If you are travelling alone in the Alaskan interior, a gps would be in order.

My point is that part of the outdoor experience, for me at least, is the possibility of getting a little cold or little lost or a little hungry or a little tired. The thought of the possibility of getting hurt or even killed keeps my wits sharp and keeps me coming back. 
Why do people skydive or bungee jump or free climb rock faces?

I just have to shake my head when I see (and I have a friend like this) an able bodied young fella who gets out of an SUV in his Gore tex, climbs on his 4 wheeler to travel a half mile to his deer stand guided by his GPS to shoot a deer at 40 yards with a 300 mag. with a scope and the last thing he does is shoves a radio in my hand "so we can keep in touch".

Good God! Why not just go to the grocery store and get a steak, then sit at home and watch Toxy Haas hunt some Milk River whitetails on the idiot box?

I own a cell phone. Never take it hunting. Why? Because part of the thrill for me is knowing that if I get myself into a pickle, I have to get myself out. 
When I have mentioned this to people, they say "well what if you were dying"? My response is that I would rather die on a duck lake in a blizzard or freeze to death in the woods or be eaten by some big hairy critter than hand over the family fortune to a hospital or rot in some nursing home.
Most people spend the better part of their life savings during the last two weeks of their lives. 
I dont have a death wish. My wish for life is that it be an adventure, not virtual reality.
Maybe Im nuts.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Wow Bert  I have a five year old boy and I don't think it is responsible of me to not be as careful for his sake as possible. Also what is the big deal about guys having toys and using them out hunting and fishing?? Isn't technology made to be used or is this a can't afford problem?? Anyway GP I have to also agree that safety is really an issue now with extra tags etc. Deer hunting attracts some people who I wouldn't trust with a BB gun let alone a rifle. I think it's life or death for some people....


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

:lol: Didn't even make a dent did I Bert?? Hey I know what you are saying, I don't have all the fancy's myself. Your hunting ways will not have to ever change if radios were legal Bert. Hunt in a pair of wooden clogs in the dead of winter for all I care. Your friend can still be laughed at. If some people in our hunting area of the state during the gun season have no other equiptment at all they should carry one of these things. I've seen first hand how they could eliminate some confusion in our area. I don't care much for gun hunting anymore because of what goes on, but it's a family tradition we don't want to give up on yet. Your area may not need these at all and that's fine.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

WW you can't deny that there are those out there that shoot at animals and they may not know what is behind it! I am not that type of hunter myself and I know Eric is not and from what I have gathered from Goldy Pal posts, that he is not either, but we are saying IF you have the option of carrying one to help YOU know where OTHER PEOPLE are and not use them for the fact of taking the big game then that's what technology is GOOD for! If we have tech. and we don't use it, what good is it?
Bert maybe it's ignorance? :eyeroll: 
*Better to be safe than sorry!*

anyone herd that before?

Mav....


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Bert said:


> GP
> I disagree. I believe that hunters today are more careful and better trained than they were in days of old. There are more of em and they are more mobile but Id say that overall, the interest in safety has increased as well.


If this is the case which you say it is, why am I just happy to be home alive after gun season??? Was I just a rebel without a care before??? And we hunt private land!! I know it's more dangerous on state land. I never had to worry about safety in the woods the way I have to now days. That is my point. IT HAS CHANGED!!! Your buddy with all his gear has turned you off to technology, that's obvious, but this little invention could save someones a$$ and that's the bottom line.

Myself and a few others now have posted many good reasons for legalizing these toys. Why don't I hear any good reasons why they shouldn't be????

Technology and hunting??? You're on a hunting web sight using a computer!!!! :lol: I'll wait for the telegram. :lol:


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

I dont care if toys are legal or not. 
From an ethical standpoint, big deal. Deer are bouncing off cars like crazy these days. 
I just hate to see a generation of hunters who believe that 4 wheelers are terminal tackle for hunting.
If you feel the need for toy use out of safety or some kind of techno pleasure, knock yourself out.
The statements I made had to do with why I hunt and technology has little to do with it. More and more these days, for some guys, its everything.
That is fine. I guess Id hope kids could figure out north from south without a gps before they decided that a gps was the only way to make that call. It worries me some that lots of kids can program a computer but cannot do long division or even spell correctly without one.
The technology craze, as it relates to hunting and fishing kinda gives me the same worries.
I dont know where you guys hunt, must be nuts in North Dakota for deer.
I have hunted Minnesota pretty much top to bottom and what I have seen is less "run and gun" and more pick and choose.
The toothless hillbillies with a pint in there pocket on stand are harder to come by these days. Kids and adults attend gun safety classes.
I stick to my feelings that overall, hunters are a more careful lot these days in most areas.

If total safety was a huge issue for me, Id just stay home and be nice and safe.
The example of my friend was to point out that - like I said - there are circumstances which warrent the toys... extreme distance, remoteness, physical limitations, hunting in a war zone (like you guys appearantly do)... where we hunt, this guy doesnt need all the stuff, what he needs is excercise.
For me (not forcing my opinion on you) a certian element of risk and discomfort and physical effort and self reliance is a big part of why I hunt.
I even switched from a compound bow to a homemade wooden job to make things a little more challenging. Doesnt mean I want to pass a law banning compound bows.
I dont want to get into a huge peeing match over this. Im not forcing anything on anybody. To each his own.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

By the bye Goldy, this is a hunting forum, not actual hunting. Some people confuse that too.
Im not anti tech, there is just a time and a place for everything.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Oh Bert, I like that old fashioned style more than you think. 8)


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## Buckshot (Nov 5, 2003)

> I guess Id hope kids could figure out north from south without a gps before they decided that a gps was the only way to make that call. It worries me some that lots of kids can program a computer but cannot do long division or even spell correctly without one.


Funny, I could see my grandmother saying that about me when I buy clothing because I don't know how to knit or run a loom.

Don't get me wrong self-sufficiency and tradition is a blessing, but in our society specialties in subjects is what makes us efficient. If there wasn't we'd still be living subsistently.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I think we have gotten somewhat off the track. I saw it before that Bbe broke the law, over and done. Now, I don't know about you, but I have surely broken the law at least once either through ingnorance or stupidity (mostly when I was young). There is breaking the law and breaking the law. He got caught doing something kinda stupid, not quite in the league of using helicopters to herd animals into his range, but kinda stupid. Again, within the limits of the law (and I think we can agree, all of us can think of at one law we think is stupid), how much technology you use is up to you. I can hardly see, so if I go out without a scope or fiberoptics, I might as well not use sights. That is technology. My personal pet peeve is going overgunned for the game you intend to take. But each should make his choice and respect others as long as they respect us.


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