# farm bill



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-F ... ref=slogin

read the numbers about the incomes of the people getting subsidies, and people get upset about Iraq ect.

Do any other group of millionairs get income subsidies??


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Bobm said:


> http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Farm-Bill.html?_r=1&scp=9&sq=food&st=nyt&oref=slogin
> 
> read the numbers about the incomes of the people getting subsidies, and people get upset about Iraq ect.
> 
> Do any other group of millionairs get income subsidies??


I was reading an article here a couple years ago that North Dakota has more millionaires per capita than any other state, and it isn't our doctors and attorneys. 
I hear Bush will veto the ag bill. good. I figure if they cut the ag bill in half I can afford to pay to hunt. What other business is guaranteed success. If anything goes wrong, it's a disaster. They have been pushing for a permanent disaster bill. I bet every year will be a disaster.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> Bobm said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Farm-Bill.html?_r=1&scp=9&sq=food&st=nyt&oref=slogin
> ...


Right on.....for once maybe GWB will do the right thing and veto this bill.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Bobm said:


> read the numbers about the incomes of the people getting subsidies, and people get upset about Iraq ect.


In all fairness I will point out that $300 billion over 5 years is substantially less then what's been spent in Iraq in 5 years.

With that being said, I completely agree that the amount of money dumped into subsidies in the farm bill is ridiculous.



> ''Americans are concerned about rising food prices,'' Bush said. ''Unfortunately, Congress is considering a massive, bloated farm bill that would do little to solve the problem.''


This quote bugs me. I agree with the statement, but why are food prices rising drastically? It could have something to do with Bush pushing for a 6 fold increase in ethanol production (as did most politicians). Doesn't he realize that he's a big part of the problem?:roll:

We need to cut spending across the board, and I agree the farm bill is a great place to start. There's plenty of pork dollars that could be easily trimmed.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Guess what I have to disagree somewhat. Most of the farm payment are based on acre's of land. I don't believe in payment limitations, I believe it penalizes the successful.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

g/o said:


> I don't believe in payment limitations, I believe it penalizes the successful.


As a farmer I'm sure you know the ins-and-outs of the farm bill bureaucracy better then any of us do. But what confuses me is this, If they're successful why do they need government payments in the first place???

Why give welfare to people who don't need it?

I'm not trying to be offensive with that statement. I'd say most of us might feel that way somewhat. But like I said we aren't farmers so if you could explain your position to us a little more it might help us understand.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> This quote bugs me. I agree with the statement, but why are food prices rising drastically? It could have something to do with Bush pushing for a 6 fold increase in ethanol production (as did most politicians). Doesn't he realize that he's a big part of the problem?


Absolutely correct.



> Guess what I have to disagree somewhat. Most of the farm payment are based on acre's of land. I don't believe in payment limitations, I believe it penalizes the successful.


With disaster payments, support prices, poor management (tear up light soil prairie and plant row crops etc ) it doesn't penalize success it rewards failure.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

This will be fictitious but will maybe show an example. Let say a Dick Monson who is a farmer worked hard and did a good job farming and over his life span acquired several thousand acres. Now Dick, the conservationist he is decides he want to put all his land into CRP and open it to public hunting. The CRP program has a $50,000.00 payment limitation, the rate per acre where Dick is at is $50.00 an acre. Now because of the payment limitation Dick will only put in 1000 acres.

I disagree with your logic Plainsman, I know many hard working families that have acquired large tracts of land. They did not acquire this by cheating the government, but by hard work and good management. I don't think these people should be penalized for their efforts.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

This hard working BS is exactly that.....does the hardware store owner work any less when he is forced to close up because the population in his town isn't big enough to support him?Why doesn't the government pay him a subsidy so he can stay open?His family has owned that store for a couple generations also.They also didn't acquire it from cheating the gov't.They did it by hard work and good management.Why penalize them for their efforts?


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ken, Fine then take the farm payment away from everyone and put them on an even playing field. But don't give it to one and not another as I stated before don't penalize the rich for being successful.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

g/o said:


> Ken, Fine then take the farm payment away from everyone and put them on an even playing field. But don't give it to one and not another as I stated before don't penalize the rich for being successful.


I don't agree.Who can afford to pay more or recieve less support.Just like I don't think the mom and pop hardware store should recieve the same help as Menards or Home Depot.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ken, Again we disagree but that doesn't surprise me. Why shouldn't the mom and pop hdwr. store be entitled to all the breaks the big boys get? Remember this:



> Scheel, whose Fargo, N.D., company plans to build a 100,000-square-foot
> sporting-goods store across Interstate 90 from Cabela's, complained that Rapid
> City is giving Cabela's an unfair financial advantage.
> "We've been in Rapid City for so many years. We're building a bigger building,
> ...


The city of Rapid City felt Cabela's would draw more people so they gave them a bunch to come. Meanwhile Scheels had to put on the party by themselves. I'm sure you probably feel this was fair also but I don't. I'm sure you support the redistribution of wealth, I do not.


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## Skip OK (Jul 16, 2006)

For years, every time the Farm Bill came up it was explained to the public as a way to ensure adequate supplys of economical food.

If that is, in fact the justification behind the Farm Bill, then the only question we shoudl be asking as far as qualification issues go is"

"Does THIS farmer produce large volumes of food at economically competive prices?"

It may VERY well be that this question woudl drive the support away from small famers and toward huge agri-industry.

BUT is that is our justification why shouod we support the most productive whoever they shoud be?

If on the other hand the Farm Bill is a way to provide the equivalant of Welfare to the Farming Community, I thik we would have to re-argue why we even HAVE the darn thing.

If we AREN'T trying to provide economical food to the US public, then I beleive a large part of that public will be asking the old "WE don't get a free ride, why shoud they?" questions.


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## FlashBoomSplash (Aug 26, 2005)

The Farm Bill subsidies aren't the problem its the Farmers who receive them. :huh:

Let me explain. Farmers should not receive payments for farming Marginal land. By marginal I mean land that has productivity rating under 70%. Farmers should also have to be environmentally friendly. That means all 0 till, no wetland drains, grass buffers around all water (potholes, lakes, streams ect.) rotational grazing, and health department approved feed lots. If the farmer does all of this then and his crop still fails he may earn a subsidy payment. No more free hand outs for bad farmers.

On a side note our liberal politicians Conrad is trying to get North Dakota exempt from the sod buster provision on the Farm bill. :eyeroll:


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## ndfarmboy (Jan 7, 2006)

My GOD guys,
If anyone wants to pm me I will give them my name and FSA# and you can see how much I get. With the input costs this year, I don't know if I can afford to keep farming. Everyone keeps talking about how to keep young farmers going(which I am 36, which isn't young anymore) this is bullcrap!. I know this will start a pissing contest but, in my area if every pheasant was dead I would have a much better chance of farming for a few more years. So, when I see an acre of CRP coming out I love it. I know this is gonna piss people off but this is how I feel. 
sincerly ,
shannon


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

It is your right to do as you wish within the laws.But shouldn't the store owner running his business recieve help to keep his business open?Why only farmers recieve subsidies?

Heck with the price of gas most people that work could use subsidies to afford to drive to their job.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

ndfarmboy said:


> My GOD guys,
> If anyone wants to pm me I will give them my name and FSA# and you can see how much I get. With the input costs this year, I don't know if I can afford to keep farming. Everyone keeps talking about how to keep young farmers going(which I am 36, which isn't young anymore) this is bullcrap!. I know this will start a pissing contest but, in my area if every pheasant was dead I would have a much better chance of farming for a few more years. So, when I see an acre of CRP coming out I love it. I know this is gonna piss people off but this is how I feel.
> sincerly ,
> shannon


Shannon I dont think anyone begrudges help to the farmers that truly need it if they are making good decisions and still have a failed crop, the problem is that the farm bill like all income redistribution has become a racket played by wealthy folks that dont need help.

I do have to ask though why would you feel that CRP is a problem didn't the farmers that got in the program at the time think it was a fair deal then, now the prices have risen making farming that land attractive so everyone wants to get out of the program, but they did willingly sign the contract didn't they?

If you make an agreement you should honor it is my point.

I've made business deals over the years that didn't go according to plan but I still did what I committed to.

I wish you well and success, just don't think if you make a reaosnable profit that you should be able to take money from your neighbors they all have bills to. The farm bill payments come from other citizens pockets.

Americans are a generous people but this program is abused by many and should be policed. Good decisions undersome reasonable guidelines should be rewarded and protected..... bad decisions should not be.


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## ndfarmboy (Jan 7, 2006)

Hey Bob,
I know what your saying. The current farm bill does cater to the rich. If you browes the new bill that is in congress there is not much change. The rich get richer. It's the american way. Sorry I was ranting on this, it just gets my gander up. I am all for having a healthy wildlife population. I am the first one out for hunting season. What I hate to see is, I tried to buy some farmland this spring and someone bid me up to 1,000 an acre to take this land out of production, all because it had a creek running through the center of it. At that price it just don't pencil out. I am from Mott, which I know has been notrious for charging for hunting. I do not do this because I don't think that I own the wildlife that is on my land. On the other hand I don't condem the people that do. I have people that pull into the farmyard with a brand new suburban, new cabelas hunting clothes, new shotguns that have never fired a shell, and I think what the hell. It's become a rich man's sport and thats sad to see. What's the solution?


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

I find it amazing how people morph their political idealogies depending on the issue. I'm not trying to point the finger, because we're all guilty of it.

It just intrigues me that a guy who is so ardently supportive of conservative ideals like landowner's rights, hard work, entrepreneurship, capitalism and free trade, etc....

...can be as socialist as they come when it comes to getting a government hand out.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I think sometimes people not closely alligned to farming forget that to make a living at it, now, you have to operate a large business. A farmer's net worth, or their income, often is not a good indicator of their ability to afford to do business. If people looked at it from an income/cost/profit/loss point of view would get a better picture. I don't know what the answer is, but I find myself in the uncomfortable position of having some agreement with Matt in that government subsidies are, indeed, closely related to socialist ideals.


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