# Harvesting a trophy



## headhunter

Just saw a kid in a picture with a 160" Whitetail. It was killed before deer season in early archery season or also called the Youth Season. Do you think it hurts the "future" enjoyablility of a deer hunter when he tags a huge buck like that first go round? To most people in the USA , killing a 160 is their "buck of a lifetime". Not many hunters kill a 160" their whole career, let alone when they are rookies. Plus at that time of year, some bucks are still in their Summertime Core feeding patterns , making some of them more vulnerable than during actual hunting season. Do you think these kids will ever be satisfied like a person who climbed the ranks so to speak? Or will every buck they ever shoot be compared to that first wallhanger, and more than likely, greatly underappreciated?

I for one am very glad I didn't shoot a wallhanger when I was 14. What would there be to top? My first deer was a 17" 4x4 that would score around 115". Still not a bad first buck at all for the area I hunt. One of my uncles told me I better not pass everything from now on just cause I got a nice buck my first year of hunting (I think he said I "got lucky"), perhaps he was thinking even my 4x4 was a little to much of a "trophy" for a first deer. And Now I understand what he was saying. I'll also never forget the cold snowy November day I got my first buck either. Novembers have never ever been the same. So when I see a youngster in a Holdem and Grin photo, I know and appreciate what they have harvested, BUT, I wonder if they have any, any idea what they have done, and how many hours,seasons, effort and money many adult hunters spend just trying to catch a glimpse of a specimen like that.


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## .17remman

Remember when you first started hunting? Would you have passed up a 160 Whitetail? Would you pass on one now? I believe that it is also better to take some small bucks out of the herd to promote the health and overall growth. I do not believe that when a person has a 160" buck and a 16" buck standing side by side, that the person will opt for the smaller, especially if it is the persons first deer and they are bow hunting.
If you would pass on the larger buck, then you are a better person than I am.

just my :2cents:


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## headhunter

.17remman, Oh no I sure as heck wouldn't pass on the big one no matter what age I was. I guess I should clarify.

First, the issue is getting "spoiled rotten" by shooting an absolute hog whitetail your first year of hunting, and how does it affect a hunter later on. 
Second, The youth season encourages shooting bucks, encourages Daddy trophy hunters to do the "Guiding" we shall call it., It incourages alot more competition and bs instead of just going out in the outdoors with dad. It opens up our older mature bucks to premature death before regular gun season, before they have even bred any does. It puts a wrinkle in Archery season and it DOES make the deers patterns go all to hell.

Timing of the season (bad)
type of tags allowed (bad)
Trophy results as a youngster( good??? )


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## ej4prmc

Youth seasons are *not* needed for any type of hunting.


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## djleye

So basically you are upset that someone is shooting nice deer in the youth season???? Am I correct?


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## .17remman

Headhunter, I also do not like the early season for youth. But, there are 2 sides to every story. The main reason they have an early youth season is to give kids a better chance to harvest an animal. When a young person does harvest an animal, usually they will hunt for life and promote the sport, rather than hunting for 5 years and not harvesting an animal, and then going on to be an anti-hunter.
Am I saying that I agree with the youth season? No, I absolutely could not dislike it more. The bucks are shot before they can breed does and the deer are flighty by the beginning of the Regular Season. It's like going into a second-hand store and picking through what the kids discarded.
I believe that youth hunters should hunt in the General Season like the rest of us. That would give all people an equal chance for the same buck and promote the health and genetics of the deer herd. 
So, the question is, should we promote deer genetics and give everyone a chance at a 160" buck? Or should we promote our heritage within the younger generation?
I think that I already answered this question for myself. This is a very good topic, and I hope to see more like it in the future. 
:beer:


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## MossyMO

Promote our heritage within the younger generation. With all added cost and access to land for hunting, it is going towards being a wealthy mans hobbie. Opposite of when hunting started. Get the youth involved and hopefully we will be able to keep them involved. Young hunters, sportsman and athletes are ussually well rounded and not part of being problem teens or young adults.


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## taddy1340

Another good thing about the youth season is that the young hunter can have a better chance of experiencing a quality hunt. In the regular season, theIR first hunt could be ruined by roadhunters, landowner arguments, illegally shot deer, pressure to tag a deer, need I go on? (yes it is possible for this to happen in the youth season, but less likely IMO) I think the youth season does have its few negatives, but it hopefully gets the young hunter off on the right foot.


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## Ryan.Anderson

Shooting a deer of that caliber as a first deer will more than likely only add another lifelong hunter. I almost guaruntee you that the kid in the picture would still be more then happy with a possibly even a doe next year. Youth seasons almost guaruntee our young a chance to have an exciting first hunting experience. Most anyone will agree that to get a child hooked on hunting or fishing, there needs to be some success and excitement. Thus the youth season is a must to ensure future hunter numbers. As for the kid again, he may have access to some private land where it isn't unusuall to see deer of that size. 
Another pro to the kid shooting a large buck could be that he may be less apt to take a smaller buck next year. I'm sure he wouldn't pass up a chance at a smaller buck later in the season though. So in short, shooting a buck that size is only a good thing.


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## headhunter

Some good points Ryan.


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## ej4prmc

This is NORTH DAKOTA OUTDOORS, correct? Come on people, you know as well as I do, what a special place we have in ND. Kids don't need a special season. They need to get out there with others to LEARN what HUNTING IS.
1. *Commroddery*(spelling) They will have more than a hunt, they can learn who farmer "joe" is and learn social skills.
2. *Work* Hunting is not easy, it is HARD WORK. SORRY to affend all you soft parents! There is nothing more rememberful than crawling 300 yards on your belly, carrying in 2 dozen floaters while wearing chest waders, Getting up at 4am to dig a pit and set 300 decoys.
3. *Killing* If all you want is for the young person to get something take them out GOPHER HUNTING or trap shooting.


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## Ryan.Anderson

I'm not sure I agree with any of your points ej4prmc. These issues you talk about can be learned later in the child's hunting career. The important aspect of the youth season is to get the children hooked on hunting. Your points can be learned a couple years later before the children go out on their own. Keep in mind that a 14 year old kid in most cases can't keep up with what adults would consider "work" hunting. Those points you speek of have to be developed over time.

Of course no one should ever go out just to kill. Children should know this before they even touch a gun.


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## DuaneinND

Having hunted deer for 38 years, in 3 different states, and been lucky enough to shoot 10 bucks in the 130-160 class. The MOST memorable hunts I have EVER been on were the two youth season hunts with my daughter and youngest son. My oldest sons birthday fell in such a way that he either neede to wait until he was 15 or hunt with the adults. Well fellows He got screwed. Hunting with a group of "seasoned" hunters dose not allow for the time and attention needed for a 14 year old. Every person in the group just wanted my son to shoot a deer so the hunt could go on. I will take the full blame because I brought my son with the group instead of taking him and hunting alone. Yes he still got a nice 3x3 and he was happy , but the pressure that was placed on him to shoot the first deer that cooperated was tremendous, something that did not occur during the 1x1 youth hunt with Dad performing as a GUIDE (there is that forbidden word). The total lack of pressure, the ability to pass up on a questionable shot and the luxury of having the time to stalk closer for a good shot without some jerk on the road shooting in our direction or just plain scaring the deer away, is something I had never been able to appreciate in all of my hunting years. My daughter and I stalked(we followed over 3/4 mile) within 20 yards of 7 bucks feeding in some tall clover and She passed on shooting a 140 class 5x5 because She could not get an unobstructed veiw of the vitals. This hunt was all done within 250 yards of a "super" highway- roadhunter road that we don't even dare to hunt during regular season due to the bullets flying our way. The quality of a youth hunt is something you need to due to appreciate, instead of badmouthing- find a kid that needs a "guide" and take them hunting and use YOUR expertise to teach them all the values of ther "hunt" and that it is not about what you shoot, but how you go about doing it. Gentlemen the future of hunting is in the children- lets train them to be good hunters. Sorry for the long post.


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## taddy1340

Duane,

Well said. Glad to hear you have great memories!


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## headhunter

Duane, understand your line of thinking, but also, I must say (Im not arguing, just stating my take )
You said there was pressure from others to shoot something and get it over with. You could have left "the crew" alone opening week or whenever it was and went 1 on 1 with your son. Just because its opening weekend or anytime during rifle season doesn't mean you can't ditch "the relatives" or whomever. Now I'm not saying anything bad about your very good experience with the youth season. But that whole good youth season experiance you had, could have been replayed during regular gun season, and it HAS been replayed by many kids/parents.

When it comes right down to the brass tacks of it all, my biggest problem with youth season is being able to take a Buck. That is just bad management on the G/F's part . Especially before the rut. How stupid is that!!!. We have too many does, and not enough meat hunters, we have an unbalanced herd , and not enough MATURE bucks to do the breeding. We have stressful winters that KILL mature bucks that are left after gun season because they are WORN OUT from doing too much breeding!. These are facts fellas.

This should be an open shut case people! No buck tags allowed for youth season........

but..........hell no, lets kill a few extra bucks in late summer just because....I don't know? WHY? Because 14 year olds deserve a head start on 165" bucks than the rest of us? I'm stumped!!!! go figure!!

:******: :******: :******: :******: :******: :******: :******:


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## buckseye

Does anyone know how many youth tags are issued and what their success rate is?? 8)


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## slough

I don't know how many tags are issued or what the success rate is, but judging by how often this ridiculous argument comes up, each kid with a license must shoot a trophy buck!! Quit being selfish, everyone has a right to the deer, not just you "hard-core" buck hunters. If you saw a picture with a bunch of youth hunters whom had shot spikes and forkhorns, you'd probly whine about that too.


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## taddy1340

Buckseye,

You beat me to the question. We need to know the stats before making broad assumptions.

HH, 
As you will see in Duane's post, he states that it was his fault for taking his child with the group...


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## djleye

I agree slough, there would be several that would be PO'd because some young child shot a spike or a forkhorn, bad QDM :eyeroll: ........Give me a break, let a kid shoot whatever he wants. I cannot believe how selfish some people are. I would much rather have a kid shoot a 165 buck than myself.....but I guess I think that kids are more important than I am too!!!!!!


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## headhunter

Taddy1340, Your right I overlooked that, sometimes I think I skim instead of reading .

Slough, your right, whether it be a fork/spike/ or a 20 incher, anyone, (not picking on kids), anyone harvesting a buck of any size whatsover before the November Rut is hurting everything. Hurting the deer herd and hurting the hunting for everybody. :-?

(Bowhunting is another matter as bowhunters are usually pretty serious about Whitetail hunting and the harvest is more "fair" to the bucks . Bowhunting also doesn't disturb all the deer in the area like a september gun season does, Also I would think the success rate of kills by bowhunters is less wouldn't you think? PS Last bowseason everthing was good until youth season fired up and I'll be darnnned....the deer went nocturnal.)


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## headhunter

djleye, I would also like to see a kid harvest a 160" PIG , How cool would that be, really! I'd be more excited than the kid I'm sure!! I just don't want to see a kid shoot a 160 before November 10th or so. Its just not the same..........


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## holmsvc

headhunter whats the problem some kid shoot a bigger buck than you? I realize we have too many does, but I think you just don't want kids shooting bucks before you can. My sister shot a nice 5x5 this year out of a belt I was bow hunting I was happy for her. I wasn't complaining because it would screw up my bow hunting.


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## slough

why is it not the same when it's before November 10th?? What is the difference? Aren't bucks harder to hunt when they are not in the rut? Or is that just your criteria that everyone should have to abide by? Deer sure do weird things to people's minds........


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## DuaneinND

Headhunter - the point you are missing is that a beginner deserves a chance to hunt without all of the distractions of people hunting all around. The problem with my first sons hunt was not the group of people he was hunting with but all of the commotion going on around causeing the deer to instantly run at the sight of anything that moved. I feel that a 14 year old must have a standing shot and the time to take the shot, very hard to do with deer that have been pushed out of their bed at the stupid opening time of 12:00PM. You really need to experience the youth hunt to understand, and I would rather a 14 year old harvest a 165 buck during youth season than the 165 buck harvested by some road hunter during the regular season that was kicked out by somebody trying to teach their 14 year old the proper way to hunt. 
I do have to agree that we need to harvest more does and maybe that is something that should be looked at for a youth season tag with the tag being an any deer during the rifle season. 
I would also then suggest that a bow hunter follow the same rules after all we get to hunt for 2 moths before and another 5 weeks after rifle season, and that is just as much of an advantage- yes I do bow hunt when I find the time and most of the time I shoot a doe.


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## Field Hunter

Sorry guys. Just another reason not to implement QDM. Do think the landowners that are growing big bucks on their land would ever allow the possibility that a 14 or 15 year ls might happen on the 160 buck running around....I don't think so.


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## BenelliBlaster

Just to straighten out a few misconceptions about the buck that started this topic. It was a 15 yearold that shot this 160point buck with his youth tag (you can see it in the photoalbum), but it was taken during the second weekend of regular deer gun season. Many people had a shot at this big boy but the 15 yearold was the only one successful. I'd rather see that 15 year old shoot that deer than an adult just because of the effect it has on a young hunter. Some say the kid will be spoiled and he will never be satisfied with smaller buck but I think it is just the opposite. The kid is excited about hunting and has given him a bigger passion for the sport. 
I told him to put the pic on the site because he was so proud of his success. It gave him another chance to show off how hardwork and lots of hours scouting can pay off.


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## Burly1

The fact is, is that headhunter is using this thread as a way to tout QDM, as he already has on of several of these forums. I don't honestly think youth hunting has anything to do with it. Or just maybe, somebody's "personal buck" was taken by a new, therefore "not worthy" hunter. I say give it a rest hh, or just call it what it is. Your personal crusade to have everyone shoot does except you. Your endless support for QDM in our state is backed up by nothing more than small-time experiments on private lands, professional "hunting operations" as those in Texas and Michigan and completely unfounded theories. You continue to ignore the fact that ND does not have the natural resources to support the deer herd that we already have and imply that deer with bigger antlers have a greater value to the ecosystem. To have the ideal deer herd, you have to have the ideal range and forage to support it. It's that simple. If we would stop farming and turn the state in to a "Buffalo Commons" as some have suggested, after twenty or thirty years you might see the herd as it once was. But probably not, as man has already interfered with the wild deer population so much that it will never again return to the truly wild herd that once was. For you to imply, hh, that the early youth season in ND impacts the deer herd in a negative way is simply ludicrous. I condemn your unwarranted attack on the future of our sport, our youth hunters, as a despicable way to try and sell your personal agenda. I along with many others have read your drivel in the past on Fishing Buddy. Perhaps that's why you're using these forums now, the guys elsewhere have heard enough of your unfounded theories and smart remarks, when you have nothing constructive or informative to post. I think I have seen plenty, and will end my responses to your endless rants right here, right now. Burl


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## Ryan.Anderson

I love the "personal buck" comment burly. I know it isn't right to think that a person owns any particular deer. I felt like one of my three bucks was taken from me this year by a family friend. I'm happy for him, but after I saw it up close, I couldn't but help wonder about some "what if's". My father and I had been hunting these three bucks on public land for the last three years with the bow. I was within ten yards of all three bucks at one time two years ago, but messed up the shot. This year it was going to be different, I was going to have the advantage with my 270. Turned out I ended up getting a heck of a nice buck more than twenty miles away from where "my" bucks were. A couple days later I learned that the family friend took took a very nice muley that was possibly larger then mine and one side resembled that of a whitetail. I knew that was one of "my" bucks due to the location he shot it at and the descriptions of the antlers. Every time I see someone carrying out a buck from the public land I hunt, I let out a sigh.

On the other hand, I allways remind myself that because someone else took a buck away from "my" herd, it'll just be that much more sporting and difficult (which is why I hunt in the first place). I can't imagine that hunting private land with no hunting pressure could be near as exciting or rewarding for myself than hunting on good ol' government land where the deer's chances of escaping are ten fold of that compaired to minimum pressured deer.


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## Burly1

Ryan, As a younger man I was fortunate enough to do a great deal of bowhunting in the Western part of the state. I remember very fondly the one time I was lucky enough to find a "big buck bedroom" during a hunt in the middle of September. Six 4x4's, 4x5's, and 5x5's within 65 yards. The memories alone are enough. I ended that particular hunt with a hasty shot at a moving deer and never so much as cut a hair. A friend that had a rifle tag for that area was fortunate to take a 27" 5x5 later that fall, from the very north facing hillside that I was watching that day in September. I had shown him and his cousin the area on a map two weeks prior to their hunt. Jealous? Sure, a little. My deer? Nope. The deer was there for the man who was good enough and lucky enough to find him. The deer were in the same area the next year. I never did get a big one, but I did harvest some venison, and packing it out, knowing that I had worked hard for my fat forky was pretty sweet. I think you get it Ryan. The deer are there for everyone. If you're unable to be happy with anothers harvest, at least be man enough to acknowledge the fact that the person was doing nothing more than exercising his rights as a legally licensed hunter and was good enough, or lucky enough to fill that precious tag with a deer of his choosing. Burl


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## Field Hunter

Burly, 
Couldn't agree more. One Fall while deer hunting in SC ND a farmer approached us and and said we should stay off of his land.....ok, no problem. (never lets anyone hunt even after the deer pile into his land after the season starts and he only shoots one himself if one happens to stand on the road while he gets out of his pickup) He was nice enough and then began to tell us of a particular deer that he had been watching through the Summer. He explained that this deer had the habit of staying in his wheat fields about 95% of the time and that we shouldn't shoot him if he was on the land we had permission to hunt. (large 5x5). He kept refering to it as "his" deer. As luck would have it we jumped "the" deer about 3/4 of a mile from his land and one of the guys hit it right before the hind quarters......was it "his" deer? Who knows.

The deer are "wild" in ND. They are not farmed in an inclosure. Shoot when you are legal and it should be no problem to anyone.


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## DJRooster

What???...I can't believe that someone would be against the youth season with a record number of deer in North Dakota. It just doesn't make any sense no matter what quote "logic" is tried to be used as reasons for not having a season. The logic is illogic.


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## MossyMO

I agree, it is greedy and for coming from "old", "seasoned" "hunters" it is unsportsmanlike and immature. Give our kids an opportunity to feel special, focus on them, not just yourself.

Maybe we can come up with a way so you can feel like regular season is more about just you and your horn "antler" needs. uke:


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## headhunter

The idea was to limit youth tags to "doe only" no buck tags before November. Fairly simple. Nothing more. (not an assault against youth season...) No, Noboby owns any deer I agree, And, I wasn't referring to any picture on this site. If we had too many bucks in our herd ratio , which doesn't exist In any state I don't think, Killing bucks before November might be a smart idea. But not here. novel concept huh?


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## buckseye

HH do you bowhunt? If you don't I bet you wish the rest of us didn't either, huh. With all these special seasons it's getting harder and harder to get a good bowhunt in, it can take weeks to pattern a deer. If you don't get your desired buck before the youth season you probaly won't see it again untill after muzzy season, that is if we don't have and extended rifle season like last year you might see it. 8)

And nobody needs to think I am against youth hunts, they just add another variable.


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## headhunter

Buckseye, Yeh I just started last year. One gun season swamped with roadhunters isn't enough big buck chasing for me. Yeh your right. Patterning was only good for the first week or 2 in September, then between birdhunters and youth season it was just crap. I don't know what I'm going to do this year. Try stick one before all the other stuff scares the begeebers out of the deer I guess huh? I missed most of September hunting too but this year I hope to spend more time in the outdoors. Seen any good ones since season ended?
hh


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## buckseye

Hey right on hh... theres always room for another bowhunter, bowhunting is my favorite. I would like to get one in the first two weeks of Sept if I can even though my favorite is Dec for bowhunting, after most everyone else is all done hunting and scouting. I don't know if I should wait and see what will happen with the other hunters success rates or what this year.

I have seen two since seaseon ended I would put on the wall and of course that is where my hunts will start. 8)


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## headhunter

Buckseye glad you have seen some good ones, always makes you feel better about next year. We have about 400 head wintering close to the farm. Out of those 400 or so deer, I have seen since December, about 5 bucks that are 120" or bigger, 2 over 130, the other 3 in between. Nice buck population we have huh!!!


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## buckseye

I always figured if you could see one real nice buck for every thousand deer you see thats probaly pretty good. Thats a nice bunch of bucks hopefully they will grow nice racks this year. It must be hard to get on land to deer hunt out there the way it sounds with all the mush heads you have. There all pretty thinned out around here except for a few people that want alot of deer on their land. Haven't been seeing many of them laying around in the ditches anyway.


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## sdeprie

Sometimes it's great hunting skill , and sometimes it's just plain dumb luck. My nephew took his first deer (in Iowa) several years ago (young teenager, but no youth hunt). He came back to the house about dark to get his dad to help him. His dad wa off the next day so told him he would get it in the morning. Went out and the Dxxx kid took a beautiful 14 pointer. Well, he still hunts, and he takes his new wife, although I think it will be a long time before he tops that.


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## dlip

ej4prmc said:


> This is NORTH DAKOTA OUTDOORS, correct? Come on people, you know as well as I do, what a special place we have in ND. Kids don't need a special season. They need to get out there with others to LEARN what HUNTING IS.
> 1. *Commroddery*(spelling) They will have more than a hunt, they can learn who farmer "joe" is and learn social skills.
> 2. *Work* Hunting is not easy, it is HARD WORK. SORRY to affend all you soft parents! There is nothing more rememberful than crawling 300 yards on your belly, carrying in 2 dozen floaters while wearing chest waders, Getting up at 4am to dig a pit and set 300 decoys.
> 3. *Killing* If all you want is for the young person to get something take them out GOPHER HUNTING or trap shooting.


I find it funny that you think kids need to go out there with others to "learn what hunting is". I started hunting at the age of 9, it was deer hunting, and all I wanted was a trophy buck. Of course, I didn't get a trophy buck, heck, didn't get anything. I'm still in my teenage years, and have still not gotten a deer, I've been hunting the same spot for 6 years and have seen nothing but does, and have passed up no telling how many shots. I am a solo hunter, I always have been, and always will be. I've duck hunted with friends and thats about it. Starting at the age of 12, I was a duck and goose hunter. To me, there is not a species out there that requires more mental toughness, patience, hard work, and the ability to get to the field with all odds against you than waterfowl hunting. You can think whatever you want about my parents and grandparents letting me hunt alone at that age, but I can gurantee you that I knew more about "WORK HUNTING" than you did at that age. My grandfather was unable to go to the field with me because of his health, and my parents work.



> Hunting is not easy, it is HARD WORK. SORRY to affend all you soft parents! There is nothing more rememberful than crawling 300 yards on your belly, carrying in 2 dozen floaters while wearing chest waders, Getting up at 4am to dig a pit and set 300 decoys.


I bought my gun when I was 12 for 350, and I worked for it. I bought all my decoys, and worked for the money for them too. I've asked permission myself to every piece of land that I've hunted. I've had my fair share of crawling 300 yards on my belly. I've had to carry my 4 dozen mallard decoys in on my back, then make the trip back to the truck to get the goose shells, 50 rags, and my blind. I don't think anybody on here is right for saying that kids don't deserve a youth season. With as much that as going on in the world today with drugs and drinking, we need to give the kids of today every chance possible to get outside. Not all the kids out there are 14 year old punks that don't respect life and just want to kill. A lot of them were kids just like you when you were younger who just loved the sport and wanted to be outside. Once again, every chance possible, we should get kids outside, because believe me, it does keep them off drugs and alcohol. I think it's funny that all of you hard hunters think that the kids should get to hunt the same season as you, and that everyone deserves a chance, all because you dont think they deserve that big buck. Sit down and think about it, and you'll figure out that we need for as many kids as possible to get into the sport and understand what it really is, especially with how bad the media makes it look. Just one statistic for you, and that is for here in Oklahoma. By the year 2050, at the rate of decrease in the purchase of hunting licenses, that there will not be one hunter buying a license. Come on guys think about it.


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## goatboy

I can't for the life of think of why someone would hate the youth season!
It's the best thing that's happened to hunting in this state in a long time, these kids are the future of hunting! The prescouting, shed hunting, video tapeing and photographing of deer we shared together was the best time I EVER had in the outdoors with anyone! It just so happened to be my son, he worked hard and took a great deer at 14 and then he did it again at 15 during the regular season. Not because he was lucky but because he did his homework, and passes up several bucks each season waiting for the one he wants. 
And I've had the good fortune of being able to get all of his hunts on video, it's great to relive those moments they are the best hunting memories we will ever have! I guess you would really hate my kid then if you don't like kids that shoot nice mature bucks! I myself couldn't be more proud of them!


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## dlip

Those are some good looking deer


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## sdeprie

goatboy, I hope I haven't written anything you would take to be disparaging. I can see you are proud of this one (the boy) and you should be. Congrats. This is one reason I believe everyone should hunt for his own reasons/trophy. It's all about personal accomplishment, and if a fork horn is an accomplishment, that's great.


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## buckseye

After seeing the smile on his face I'm proud of him too goatboy!!! Great job and congrats on the nice deer.


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## goatboy

sdeprie
No I wasn't dirrecting anything towards you at all, and to you others thanks for the kind words. I'm all for QDM but lets not put any blame on the kids ok! I think one of the biggest problems is that our rifle season is smack dab in the middle of the rut. Look at all the bucks that get shot right off a road or section line, these are deer that you'd never see during the daylight hours any other time of the year. 
I'm glad they raised the price of the buck tags and lowered the doe tags, that may help some.

Oh and take a kid out for the youth season if you can!


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## headhunter

Goatboy, nice pics. Nice DEER!!


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## GooseBuster3

You can blame poor QDM to the older guys +20 who get trigger happy. :wink:


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## IAHunter

Why can't youth season, for deer at least, be a doe only season? If populations of deer are too high, like here in IA, make them "earn" the buck. I shot does every deer season until I was 25. This would teach the kids about population controls and get them out hunting at the same time. Not against it, just think that 95% of those kids out there would be deer hunting during the regualr season anyway. I personally started deer hunting, by myself, when I was 15. My dad would wake up and drive me out to the public land in the morning, if I got a deer I would walk to the nearest place and call him to pick me up, otherwise I was out till dark. Didn't need a special season to get me out. Just my .02.

IaHunter


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## purepower

here in south dakota the only youth season for dear comes in the first 2 weeks in sept. and then opens back up after east river deer closes which is like the 1st week in dec. and they can only shoot an antlerless deer, but they can apply for up to 3 lisences after the normal draw is over if there are any left over.


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## sdeprie

PETA=People Eating Tasty Animals.


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## headhunter

Good Post IAhunter.


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## jdpete75

djleye said:


> So basically you are upset that someone is shooting nice deer in the youth season???? Am I correct?


Headhunter is always upset when someone shoots one of *his* big deer or doesnt hunt exactly like *he* thinks you should. Just look at his posts here and FB for confirmation.

That being said, I think the youth season in September should be doe only, So as much as I hate it, HH and I agree on this point.


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## Draker16

head hunter is just mad that a 14 year old shot a bigger buck then he ever will. Nothing wrong with the youth season the way it is.


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## headhunter

wrong answer. I'm upset because we shoot bucks in late summer with a rifle and that isn't right. I recall the first deer season I participated in and of course it was November. And I don't recall it being so difficult. THATS MY POINT ! I don't agree with anybody shooting any size bucks before Gun season. No matter what age!!! Pay attention. :-?


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## Draker16

head hunter rifle hunting at anytime of year is easy, and in my opinion a joke, if you want to be a real deer hunter pick up a bow.


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## headhunter

I have a bow , and I pick it up.


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## Draker16

try shooting it....................at a deer


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## headhunter

ok.


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## Draker16

:beer:


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## wtrfwlr

Draker16 said:


> head hunter rifle hunting at anytime of year is easy, and in my opinion a joke, if you want to be a real deer hunter pick up a bow.


I totally agree in southern illinois we dont' have a rifle season, one it's too dangerous with all the houses that are so close together, second it's WAY too easy. To get a nice buck close enough to shoot it with a bow is the biggest thrill anyone can have, except seein those honkers committed to your dekes!


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## hornhunter

Yea its real tough to get deer to come into a bait pile, or plot. I think both are challenging in their own aspect, but shooting a whitetail at 250 yards running across the prairie on a windy nd day is a bit tougher. Just my opinion not trying to step on anyones toes here.


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## DuckBuster

Shooting a deer @ 250 yds running in a high wind..... GREAT IDEA!! :eyeroll: It's no wonder there are deer running around on 3 legs or are found dead along side of sloughs in the spring(posted in another thread). MAKE RESPONSIBLE/ETHICAL SHOTS!!!


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## buckseye

:lol: The three legged deer I watch and feed can run faster and jump farther than the four legged ones, I think they have been given great incentive to be out front. :sniper:

Actually it's true too.


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## DuckBuster

I agree, Buckseye! I have seen some pretty fast 3 legged deer.  Although I would rather have a car make them act like that than a slug. :sniper:


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## wtrfwlr

250 yards at a running deer in windy conditions????? :eyeroll: I have never baited an animal in my life nor have i ever hunted anywhere near a food plot. I am an ethical hunter, no i don't follow every rule in the book but 250 yrds at a running deer is retarded. Don't prejudge i guarentee you're not God :******: You're lucky you didn't say that to my face.


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## Draker16

hornhunter said:


> Yea its real tough to get deer to come into a bait pile, or plot. I think both are challenging in their own aspect, but shooting a whitetail at 250 yards running across the prairie on a windy nd day is a bit tougher. Just my opinion not trying to step on anyones toes here.


That is unethical and stupid to shoot at a running deer at 250 yards, and its probably from out of your pickup window :withstupid:


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## hornhunter

I did not post my opinion to start a fight about this. I just was trying to get my point across that hunting with a rifle is just as tough as hunting with a bow. Your right it isnt the smartest shot but I have seen it done.
I dont think anyone (Draker) has the right to judge me as a hunter. Do you know me? I have never lost a deer I drew blood on and I dont hunt illegal either by shooting out the pickup window. Obviously some of you are to immature to discuss these kind of topics.


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## DuckBuster

Hornhunter-
I believe the comment was "yeah, it's real tough to get deer to come to a bait pile or plot." Sounds to me like you're judging some others, too. Saying all bow hunters use bait or food plots is not accurate in the least. You're right, rifle hunting can be challenging. I have hunted with a bow and I hunt with a scoped/rifled shotgun in the same area and I can tell you from experience, the bow is much more difficult IMO. The way you posted the 250 yard shot comment makes it sound like that's normal for you. If not, great! Because the fact of the matter is, it's unethical.
DB


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## hornhunter

Duckbuster

Your right I did judge and I apologize for that. I honestly dont take shots like that because i cant make the shot, bottom line. I used the wrong analogy to get my point across. I didnt want to tick anyone off. Almost everyone around here uses bait piles which really erks me. That is what led to my post in the first place. I guess we gotta a little of track I believe the thread was about Youth Deer Season. No hard feelings


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## DuckBuster

No hard feelings! :beer: I'd be pretty upset too, if there were people using bait piles around here.


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## Draker16

horn hunter do u bow hunt?


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## zogman

To all you holier than thou Ethical Policeman.

I have shot numous whitetails running at 200 plus yards.

1) I shoot my 270 about 100 rds a year yet. Used to shot it over 500 rds.

2) I shoot running jacks with the same rifle I hunt deer with.

3) I don't get my deer rifle out 2 days before season like about 80% of deer hunters. It's with me most of the time.

4) And you can't keep your swing going out of a pickup window. I learned that a long time ago :lol:


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## MossyMO

*Swing practices*

I do not recommend any of these practices and each is illegal but.....

Right handed shooters with a rifle have very good dexderity shooting out the drivers side window. Left handed, forward and to the left.

Left handed shooters with a rifle have much better dexderity shooting out the passenger window than the drivers window.

Right and left handed shooters do well out of the box of the truck.


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## headhunter

wank it spank it smack it on the bingbong.


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## DeVore

I agree that the starting hunters should have aditional chances to hunt. The ability to get out and hunt when there is not as much pressure and when there isn't that ocational piece of $#%# that has no respect for god's country is nothing but a good thing. This will help get these young people hooked on hunting and make our sport more successful.
Also where i hunt i watch big bucks in July and find the potental that the area has, and it doesn't matter what goes on. The mature bucks that I find will disappear from early september to sometime in November. Im not saying that this is the case everywhere but its what i have seen. In my opinion the best times to take a big buck is the first couple days of bow season, the week before gun season or the last week in gun season. My point is that the time of the youth season comes at a time that I personally have a hard time finding the mature bucks. So starting hunters that go out and shoot that 160 buck in youth season in my opinion are eather lucky, hunting in a gold mine, or are just that tuned into their game.

DeVore


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