# BAd guy gets what he deserved



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

What do you guys think of this?

I think the druggist should be released and that the robber got what he deserved

May 29, 7:51 PM EDT

Oklahoma druggist arrested for killing holdup man

By TIM TALLEY 
Associated Press Writer

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) -- Confronted by two holdup men, pharmacist Jerome Ersland pulled a gun, shot one of them in the head and chased the other away. Then, in a scene recorded by the drugstore's security camera, he went behind the counter, got another gun, and pumped five more bullets into the wounded teenager as he lay on the floor.

Now Ersland has been charged with first-degree murder in a case that has stirred a furious debate over vigilante justice and self-defense and turned the pharmacist into something of a folk hero.

Ersland, 57, is free on $100,000 bail, courtesy of an anonymous donor. He has won praise from the pharmacy's owner, received an outpouring of cards, letters and checks from supporters, and become the darling of conservative talk radio.

"His adrenaline was going. You're just thinking of survival," said John Paul Hernandez, 60, a retired Defense Department employee who grew up in the neighborhood. "All it was is defending your employee, business and livelihood. If I was in that position and that was me, I probably would have done the same thing."

District Attorney David Prater said Ersland was justified in shooting 16-year-old Antwun Parker once in the head, but not in firing the additional shots into his belly. The prosecutor said the teenager was unconscious, unarmed, lying on his back and posing no threat when Ersland fired what the medical examiner said were the fatal shots.

Anthony Douglas, president of the Oklahoma chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, called it an "execution-style murder" and praised the district attorney for bringing charges. Ersland is white; the two suspects were black.

Parker's parents also expressed relief that Ersland faces a criminal charge.

"He didn't have to shoot my baby like that," Parker's mother, Cleta Jennings, told TV station KOCO.

But many of those who have seen the video of the May 19 robbery attempt at Reliable Discount Pharmacy have concluded the teenager in the ski mask got what he deserved.

Mark Shannon, who runs a conservative talk show on Oklahoma City's KTOK, said callers have jammed his lines this week in support of Ersland, a former Air Force lieutenant colonel who wears a back brace on the job and told reporters he is a disabled veteran of the Gulf War.

"There is no gray area," Shannon said. One caller "said he should have put all the shots in the head."

Don Spencer, a 49-year-old National Rifle Association member who lives in the small town of Meridian, 40 miles north of Oklahoma City, said the pharmacist did the right thing: "You shoot more than enough to make sure the threat has been removed."

Barbara Bergman, past president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers and a professor at the University of New Mexico School of Law, likened the public reaction to that of the case of Bernard Goetz, the New Yorker who shot four teenagers he said were trying to rob him when they asked for $5 on a subway in 1984.

Goetz was cleared of attempted murder and assault but convicted of illegal gun possession and served 8 1/2 months in jail.

Bergman said those who claim they used deadly force in self-defense have to show they were "in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury."

The pharmacy is in a crime-ridden section of south Oklahoma City and had been robbed before.

The video shows two men bursting in, one of them pointing a gun at Ersland and two women working with the druggist behind the counter. Ersland fires a pistol, driving the gunman from the store and hitting Parker in the head as he puts on a ski mask.

Ersland chases the second man outside, then goes back inside, walks behind the counter with his back to Parker, gets a second handgun and opens fire.

Irven Box, Ersland's attorney, noted the outpouring of support for the pharmacist, including $2,000 in donations, and said: "I feel very good 12 people would not determine he committed murder in the first degree."

Under Oklahoma's "Make My Day Law" - passed in the late 1980s and named for one of Clint Eastwood's most famous movie lines - people can use deadly force when they feel threatened by an intruder inside their homes. In 2006, Oklahoma's "Stand Your Ground Law" extended that to anywhere a citizen has the right to be, such as a car or office.

"It's a 'Make-My-Day' case," Box said. "This guy came in, your money or your life. Mr. Ersland said, `You're not taking my life.'" The gunman "forfeited his life."

Box said that another person might have reacted differently, but he asked: "When do you turn off that adrenaline switch? When do you think you're safe? I think that's going to be the ultimate issue."

If convicted, Ersland could be sentenced to life in prison with or without parole, or receive the death penalty.

Jevontia Ingram, the 14-year-old boy accused of wielding the gun in the robbery, was arrested Thursday. The district attorney on Friday filed a first-degree murder charge against him, as well as against a man accused of being the getaway driver, and another man suspected of helping talk the teens into the crime.

The charges accuse all three of sharing responsibility for Parker's shooting death.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

This is a lose/lose for the victim (drug store worker), if the criminal lives the naacp and the aclu would be more than willing to provide him and his family attorneys to sue the victim and the drugstore owner. He did the right thing by killing the kid. Personally I think an Oklahoma jury will at least be hung, if not acquit. Then they will probably file charges through the DOJ for civil rights violation. I wonder what these minorities will do when they are no longer minorities.

It is a sad day when a working man is in trouble for protecting himself at work.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Tough deal. When he capped off 5 rounds point blank on the headshot perp he should've turned off the video camera. Hard for the folks to swallow that. I think he will have trouble stepping over this.

On the other hand who would have thunk that a headshot wouldn't be fatal. I am a firm believer of in house justice.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I also find it hard to believe that the head shot was not fatal. I also don't think they will convict him. He had no idea those kids were coming in and to convict on first degree it must be premeditated. No chance in the world this was premeditated. 
Leave him alive he sues you. 
I hate it in movies where some woman is captive and she slams the guy in the head with something, leaving him slightly dizzy, and then she runs for it. They guy always catches her, but she deserves it leaving a job half done. Beat his brains into oatmeal and walk away leisurely.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

the first volley was with a Keltec .380 then he went behind the counter and retrieved a Taurus Judge

I'm not sure which one was used for the last 5 rounds but the first one in the head was with the .380

thats why I carry full power .357 mag rounds, use enough gun

A friend of mine that weighs about 400lbs was shot in the back of the neck with a .25 auto by his girl friend by accident when he was down range setting up a target to teach her how to use it. He dropped like a rock because when it hit him, he fainted :lol: . The bullet was in his shirt collar,didn't even penetrate his skin.

Don't hunt elephants with BB guns


----------



## utahhunter1 (May 3, 2009)

Man this stuff just makes you sick this could happen to any one of us it is pathetic what this guy will be put through for defending himself, but I guess as gun owners and ccw holder we take a great resposibility upon ourselves and have to pay the price for ourselves and others safety but we would be a lost nation without men willing to do it.

And Bobm we had sort of the same thing happen to a buddy of mine when we were in afghanistan it is to this day one of the funniest things i have ever seen. When it happened it scared the hell out of me but when it turned out he was just fine it was pretty funny. He was hit not a bit of damage but he droped like a rock and was out cold for a couple of minutes we give him hell over it to this day and will probably never let him live it down.


----------



## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Going to be an interesting trial if it ever goes before a jury. The State's case will revolve around pre-planning with two guns at hand and whatever apparent speed was used to secure the second and empty it into the downed antagonist. Legally speaking, once the threat is negated, any aggressive actions beyond that point are no longer self defense...

The Defense's answer will be having two guns handy is just prudent pre-planning in a high crime area and grabbing the second gun & firing the final and apparently fatal 5 rounds center mass were just reaction under duress...

Could come down to the Defendent's background ( being a victim of violent crime or prior run ins with gang bangers, any statements about shooting badguys, practicing a lot, ect), none of it illegal but all can be used to indicate pre-planning & motive...

The 1st Degree Murder charge is most likely for leverage in a plea bargain. Look for a plea bargain with minimal or no jail time for Manslaughter (which having been in LE and been involved in the legal system as long as I have, is justified and would most likely fly in a jury trial). I fully expect a deal as with a jury, you just never know...


----------



## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Did anyone else see the result of the Fong Lee trial in Minneapolis? Similarities, except this one was a cop.

Two juries and one prosecutor have cleared the cop but yet the "advocates" still want to continue. Now they want Uncle Sam involved.

http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles ... n-the-law/


----------



## Bustem36 (Feb 5, 2008)

Good for the pharmacist...It is absolutely wrong that he was arrested dude to shooting armed thieves. So he went back and got another gun and shot the guy 5 more times. 1 extra shot or 5 the kid deserved to be killed that's what happens when your an idiot. At that point you can not be 100% sure that the intruder is totally out of the fight and your safe so what do you do make sure he is!

You can bet if someone threatened my life they better get me quick because they are leaving in a bag.


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I think what is going to get him is he went back for another gun. Now the questions needed to be asked is
1. was the first gun out of ammo and he was still in fear for his life.

2. did he get the bigger gun to put the robber out of his misery or to make sure he can't talk in a trial.

The thing with surv. video is if it has sound. Because we don't know if the robber was still talking, threatening the clerk, etc.


----------



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Jeez, Bob, that guy's lucky... I have always said, half-jokingly, if somebody shot me with a .25 auto, I'd be ticked when I found out about it. Obviously, no gun is a toy, but you're right. Use enough gun.

As far as the story at hand:

I remember a story a couple of years ago, when there was a similar story (from what I remember). The shooter was former special forces and finished the one robber off before chasing the one who ran away. He was acquitted because they said that his training kicked in as far as not turning your back on a threat.

I'm with Chuck though. Saying that going behind the counter for another gun was an involuntary reaction might be a tough sell.

I'd have to see the video. If the kid was still a threat, I'm all for him eliminating the threat.

This is a sobering reminder for those of us with permits, you do NOT want to use it, unless you absolutely have to, because you're going to be Monday-morning quarterbacked by people who weren't there.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

> This is a sobering reminder for those of us with permits, you do NOT want to use it, unless you absolutely have to, because you're going to be Monday-morning quarterbacked by people who weren't there.


Which doesn't matter as long you have not assumed room temperature.


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

What I want to know is how they can determine the kid wasn't dead from the head shot. If he was unconscious on the the tape and all. Maybe he wasn't unconscious, maybe he was DEAD. In which case, the five extra rounds are a moot point, merely insurance.


----------



## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

They can tell from the way a wound bleeds.


----------



## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

BBJ, it's a simple task for a good coroner to establish whether or not the head shot was a fatal hit....

On that subject, the guy & his lawyer were on O'Reilly last night. Given he's been charged, I could see no reason for him to talk about this on TV other than trying to pull a BLAGO & trying to build sympathy in the court of public opinion. And I believe it worked...

At any rate, he said the guy was still moving & talking, or at least making sounds. Because of this and that he thought the badguy had shot another party in the store (based on the screaming from that party and another who were both unhurt), he felt the badguy was still a threat and finished him off. Total time from the first badguy walking in until it's all over, 46 seconds...

The guy is in a full body brace for a bad spine/back and kind of talks like he has diminished capacity (which could be medical). He's the slow walking, talking embodiment of a helpless victim who takes a stand against the badguys. I think the sympathy ploy worked bigtime...

After seeing the guy, even though legally he probably committed Manslaughter, I doubt he will be convicted or will plead to anything....


----------

