# QDM paying off!



## hunt4P&amp;Y

I met a guy tonight that many have prolly gotten emails and seen pictures of! He shot a 192 inch Typical Whitetail in Minn in October! He and his uncle have been practicing QDM (Quality Deer Management) for 10 years now! They don't rifle hunt at all, never take a buck under 150" or close and take out many does every year! They pass on the forks, baskets and 120" deer! It has started to pay off for them in a HUGE way!

Before they started the program they were shooting normal basket racks, but in the last three years in a 3 mile area they have shot a couple 150" deer, a 167" a 170 something, and this 192". They have many nice bucks walking at the moment. A couple guessed in the 160" range and a few others with some great potential!

Guys programs like this pay off! It is always awsome to hear of stuff like this! They have put in there time, planted corn, alfalfa, and many other "real" crops. No Biologic, or other rack building products!

They figure they have about 40-50 deer living in a small 40 arcre haven and hunt the edges! In the winter they have anywhere from 100-250 deer depending on the winter!

It takes work, but it pays off!

Here is a picture of the little guy!


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## Sasha and Abby

It works here too...

You just have to decide if you are happy shooting basket racks. If you are not, you have to let them walk... the other basket rack hunters cannot kill all the ones you pass. Some will make it through.


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## barebackjack

But Mike, if I dont shoot the 120 inch buck, somebody else might! :lol:


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## walkswithwhispers

I'm not trying to pee in anyones Cheerios but...

That seems like an unhealthy deer population density for 40 acres. I think the NDGF shoots for something like 5 to 10 deer per square mile (or per section, if you will). That average probably includes a real variation of densities across the state but a guy has to wonder if they're asking for disease. It doesn't sound like most of those deer are just passing through.

Anyhow, good for them! Nice rack!


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## USSapper

That was in Minnesota and with proper management, I think it is perfectly fine


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

walkswithwhispers said:


> I'm not trying to pee in anyones Cheerios but...
> 
> That seems like an unhealthy deer population density for 40 acres. I think the NDGF shoots for something like 5 to 10 deer per square mile (or per section, if you will). That average probably includes a real variation of densities across the state but a guy has to wonder if they're asking for disease. It doesn't sound like most of those deer are just passing through.
> 
> Anyhow, good for them! Nice rack!


Very valid point. I see where you are coming from, however I am going to say it isn't that big of a deal. Like he said when they winter there is at times upwords of 250 deer in that area. Living in close contact, however this is because it is the place they can find food, protection, cover, and feel safe. Also take into consideration all of the empty miles and miles of harvested beat fields, corn fields, wheat, barley, list goes on and on! What I am getting at is they move to cover, aka there land along the river. This gets multipied when others hunt during the rifle season while they sit on the couch and look at the big bucks they shot months before! :beer:

I am not very familiar with MINN laws, but he was saying that in there zone there was like 30 doe tags given out.... and unlimited buck tags.... :eyeroll: That is *** backwords. Does are how you control a population. In years before they gave 5 tags per hunter for does...... so the DNR obviously screwed up!

Also, when you are managing a heard you take out animals that are sick, weak, or old. In fact one of the guys in the party took a 8 year old 2x2 that had 6.5 inch base measurements. Bad genes!

Deer like to run togather, and I know there isn't many places where they are spread out 5 per mile! That may be an average throughout the state, but not everywhere!

Keep it going guys! This is how we all learn!


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## huntinND

All states should be like North Dakotas rifle season. You have to draw a tag and may not get one every year. In years you don't draw a buck tag you take a few does to manage the herd and put some meat in the freezer. In states like WI where I used to live anyone can buy a rifle tag over the counter and the only places that consistantly produce big bucks large areas that are leased up by guides. These states wonder why the deer population is so high when they give out a million buck tags and nobody shoots does. 
This would in turn give bow hunters a chance to manage their property without having every buck in the surrounding area get pounded during the rifle season. There might be some upset people at first until they start seeing the results of a better managed herd.


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## djleye

I have never understood why MN has over the counter buck tags and you have to apply to shoot a doe?? That, to me, makes no sense!! :huh:

To top it of they used to have a two day season for the first one in the area I hunted?? That only begs you to shoot the first buck you see, regardless of size!!!


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## barebackjack

djleye said:


> I have never understood why MN has over the counter buck tags and you have to apply to shoot a doe?? That, to me, makes no sense!! :huh:
> 
> To top it of they used to have a two day season for the first one in the area I hunted?? That only begs you to shoot the first buck you see, regardless of size!!!


I think theres still alot of that mentality left over from back in the day when there werent many deer. To shoot a doe was sacriligous, and even seeing a deer during season (let alone getting a shot) was a big deal in some localities.


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## lesser

First of all I grew up in one of these areas you are referring to in Minnesota. While growing up it was a deer haven second to none. The old days of two short gun seasons a medium length bow season and no muzzleloaderr season. But why would you stick with what is working. They introduced the muzzleloader, which has depleted our deer population to nothing. Guys sit on the cattle trails (from deer) in the snow in the river bottom and pick off anything with horns and when they are all gone they shoot the big does. It is as easy as taking candyfrom a kid. Then they introduced multiple deer per year. Now you may not believe me but I have seen it with my own eyes. Every deer from a ten mile radius winters in the river. Now after 6-10 years of this poor management there is no deer left. I come from a big farm and we do not even hunt deer anymore due to the guilt felt whenshooting one. This year while pheasant hunting we never saw one deer hunter to speak of and we cover a lot of ground. They are all waiting till muzzleloader to shoot there doe becauseit is easy. The DNR says that muzzleloaders don't hurt the population so they can all shoot does. That 100-200 does shot shouldn't hurt right. Well is the zone is managed for 30 does I would venture to say that 150 would be devistating, not. So don't try to tell us that not being able to shoot does is backwards. You need does to make deer. If you have no deer I would say the doe is the first step. I would be nice to be able to hunt North Dakota. You guys are very lucky and can be proud of you deer managers. Just remember it only take a bad decision or two to end it. Just remember the whole theory relates to all the deer moving to the river. That is why your buddy has 150 deer supposidly in his woods. That covers a large area of land that they spread out to. There used to be deer here like North Dakota, but no more the people (the regulators) have ruined yet another great opportunity.


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## 9manfan

^
^
^
^
Lot of truth to this!!!


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## huntinND

> Lot of truth to this!!!


There is a lot of truth to that. The thing we should take into account is that bad management practices can have devastating affects on a deer herd. But not that shooting does is bad. Under the right circumstances doe harvest can be very beneficial to a deer herd, but this varies dramatically by area. The MN DNR screwed up by allowing anybody to take a doe with a muzzleloader after the set season as illustrated earlier.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

How many does were those guys allowed to take?


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## walkswithwhispers

Thanks for enlightening us on the particulars of deer hunting in MN. I've never hunted outside of ND and it's interesting to learn about the conditions around the region.


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## lesser

I have talked to people who have had up to five tags in Minnesota in the past few years. This year they began the change I hope back to a countable deer population. Only one per person in management areas this year, which is basically farm country. They did not miss the boat at all here even after many people told them. This will take time. I have not talked to any sportsman against the changes just that it is five years too late. The past decisions have negatively chanded the deer heard (starting with the farmland areas and then trickling into the wooded areas. one thing about North Dakota is I would venture to say the people hunting per square mile would be dramatically less than Minnesota. I have heard of 5 guys hunting a 40 acre piece of woods and shooting 20 deer for a couple of years. Every 40 here has hunters in it. How do you guys think the loss of hunters and tags bought will effect the income of the DNR. Would this have big impact on there income or not??? There is no older hunters I have talked to in Minnesota that is happy with the numbers or had good luck with seeing lots of deer. Yet they always say the deer harvest is going up or this year I heard down something like 11 percent down. I just can't see this. What do you people think. How do you feel??? I like to here about your thoughts. I especially like to here from the hunters who have went through the good and bad times because they can put in perspective what good hunting is. For others information only one buck can be taken per calendar year per person here.


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## walkswithwhispers

The DNR decreasing the number of deer tags available won't make much of a dent in their annual income if you do the math. In ND, a deer tag has been $20 since 1984. Our G&F director, Terry Steinwand, said that the state legislature sets the price and there's no plans to change it any time soon. It would take more than a just a shift in the # of deer tags available to impact the DNR budget.

Here are some interesting numbers from the NDGF:

(scroll to the bottom of the article. We've had a little shy of 150,000 tags available for the last few years)

http://www.gf.nd.gov/multimedia/ndoutdo ... review.pdf


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

lesser said:


> I have talked to people who have had up to five tags in Minnesota in the past few years. This year they began the change I hope back to a countable deer population. Only one per person in management areas this year, which is basically farm country. They did not miss the boat at all here even after many people told them. This will take time. I have not talked to any sportsman against the changes just that it is five years too late. The past decisions have negatively chanded the deer heard (starting with the farmland areas and then trickling into the wooded areas. one thing about North Dakota is I would venture to say the people hunting per square mile would be dramatically less than Minnesota. I have heard of 5 guys hunting a 40 acre piece of woods and shooting 20 deer for a couple of years. Every 40 here has hunters in it. How do you guys think the loss of hunters and tags bought will effect the income of the DNR. Would this have big impact on there income or not??? There is no older hunters I have talked to in Minnesota that is happy with the numbers or had good luck with seeing lots of deer. Yet they always say the deer harvest is going up or this year I heard down something like 11 percent down. I just can't see this. What do you people think. How do you feel??? I like to here about your thoughts. I especially like to here from the hunters who have went through the good and bad times because they can put in perspective what good hunting is. For others information only one buck can be taken per calendar year per person here.


I think I am following you. One buck per year, and the rest does. They have the right idea, I know many guys dislike it as in ND we can shoot a buck with bow, rifle, and Muzzle. I actually really liked the earn a buck idea. I wish they did that in ND, as it would force guys to shoot a doe, before they pull the trigger on the spike buck, fork, or a small buck. It will give the guys that go out and hunt hard before season, maybe take a few does with there bows, thus getting the buck tag for opening day of rifle. I know there is a-lot of guys that go out, blast the first buck they see and go home. This doesn't really help the heard at all. A it gets rid of a potential nice buck, and B it is a buck... Does are how they control the population!

Like we have talked about for a while, I think the best thing the state could do is cut the rifle buck tags in half, for about 5 years and let some of them grow up! If this happened we would be the number one Big Buck state in the nation! We have the potential here!


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## ruger1

hunt4P&Y said:


> I actually really liked the earn a buck idea. I wish they did that in ND, as it would force guys to shoot a doe, before they pull the trigger on the spike buck, fork, or a small buck. It will give the guys that go out and hunt hard before season, maybe take a few does with there bows, thus getting the buck tag for opening day of rifle. I know there is a-lot of guys that go out, blast the first buck they see and go home. This doesn't really help the heard at all. A it gets rid of a potential nice buck, and B it is a buck... Does are how they control the population!


The only problem I see with Earn a Buck is who are you to tell someone what a successful deer hunt is? If they are satisfied with a spike on opening day, then I say congrats to them. They bought a tag and shot a legal deer. Just cause it doesn't fit into the trohpy hunters guidelines, doesn't make it less of an experience or success.

Just my .02


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I understand, but why can't they shoot a doe first?


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## ruger1

hunt4P&Y said:


> I understand, but why can't they shoot a doe first?


If they choose to, then great. But what if they aren't bow hunters and a monster buck steps out at 6:30 opening morning? I'd dump him, gut him, leave him, and go find a doe to tag. Or dump him and take my chances.

However I am a bow hunter. I do kill my does before rifle season. That's great for me. But who am I to tell others that they have to do it my way.

Now, I do like the draw a buck tag idea like NoDak. Buy doe tags over the counter and draw a buck tag. That idea sounds valid to me.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Very true! Many guys would just shoot first and ask questions later!

How do you feel about the party hunting law in Minn? Don't you think it sets the mentality of shoot everything that walks and find a tag for it after? How would you feel about taking that law out of the books?

I think it could really help the managment in Minn!


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## holmsvc

ruger1 said:


> hunt4P&Y said:
> 
> 
> 
> I actually really liked the earn a buck idea. I wish they did that in ND, as it would force guys to shoot a doe, before they pull the trigger on the spike buck, fork, or a small buck. It will give the guys that go out and hunt hard before season, maybe take a few does with there bows, thus getting the buck tag for opening day of rifle. I know there is a-lot of guys that go out, blast the first buck they see and go home. This doesn't really help the heard at all. A it gets rid of a potential nice buck, and B it is a buck... Does are how they control the population!
> 
> 
> 
> The only problem I see with Earn a Buck is who are you to tell someone what a successful deer hunt is? If they are satisfied with a spike on opening day, then I say congrats to them. They bought a tag and shot a legal deer. Just cause it doesn't fit into the trohpy hunters guidelines, doesn't make it less of an experience or success.
> 
> Just my .02
Click to expand...

I completely disagree. If you want to shoot a deer just for meat get a doe tag. People that go out on opening day and shoot spikes make me sick! The only reason these people are even sending in for buck tags now is because they know there will be a doe tag available later.


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## walkswithwhispers

You've gotta play the numbers game a bit on this one:

It's an enforcement issue. G&F held a meeting earlier this year to talk to law makers about enforcement around the missouri river. They proposed a plan that would establish a joint patrol and enforcement co-op with police officers from Bismarck, Mandan, burleigh county, and morton county. With around 30+ game wardens to cover the entire state it's just too time and labor intensive to try to enforce some things. (note: fargo PD and NDHP each have around 130 officers, bismarck PD around 100)Baiting regulations and earn-a-buck programs fall into that category. I can't speak for G&F but i think that's a big part of why they're going for a complete ban on hunting over bait. it would just be too difficult to go out and measure the size of and distance between every corn pile or salt lick. That's why they opened up the caliber restrictions for hunting deer with a handgun. To much fuss over what round you can and can't use.

I wouldn't mind seeing something like $15 doe tags and $30 buck tags. Just so long as the prices don't get way out of whack so that anyone can still afford to shoot a buck but meat hunters can stick with doe tags.


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## walkswithwhispers

Sorry, I'm a little behind in my posting. I'm refering to utilizing the earn-a-buck program.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

WWW, I have also thought about such a program. WHy not make it more benificial to a meat hunter to simply shoot a doe!

Enforcement is a huge issue. It is hard for them to keep up with calls, let alone self-initiated stuff. I have been checked on average once per year. It seems as though every year it is at the same spot, and same time of the year. Almost down the same hour also! It is kind of a known fact that we will get checked the first hour or two of pheasant season in the area we hunt. As for other times..... I can count on two fingers other times I have been checked. And I put in many hours in the field, and on the road.

I think the baiting issue is going to be kinda hard for them to enforce also. The only way for them to catch them is to see it happen.... once again only 30 guys and girls in the state, and how many acres?


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## barebackjack

I think the gun buck tag should double in price. $40! We need to force guys to shoot does in this state. SOOOO many hunters out there shoot one buck, and one doe each year. This does NOTHING for management and from a QDM issue is terrible especially when many of those yearling and 2.5 year old bucks are dyeing when does could just as well fill their "meat" shoes.

Make the buck tag $40, make a doe tag $5.


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## blhunter3

I think there needs to be more education on QDM before people will shoot does. TV and magazines always only show guys shooting trophy bucks. So that is ingrained in a kids head. "Im only cool if I shoot a buck" and I have seen it before with many people in my class. Once people are more educated about QDM I think more people would be willing so shoot does.

I also would vote for shorting up the ND rifle season to 2 weeks and delay it a week, so the bow hunters could have that first weekend in Nov. IMO bow hunting is hunting while rifle is still a change its more shooting. I would also say increase the buck price and drop the doe price on tags.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I would be a kid in a candy store if they pushed it back a week!

Best Idea yet! :beer:


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## ruger1

hunt4P&Y said:


> Very true! Many guys would just shoot first and ask questions later!
> 
> How do you feel about the party hunting law in Minn? Don't you think it sets the mentality of shoot everything that walks and find a tag for it after? How would you feel about taking that law out of the books?
> 
> I think it could really help the managment in Minn!


It depends. There are 2 familys in our group that would not have meat in the freezer if it wasn't for party hunting. My g/f and I shot 4 of the 8 deer in our camp. If I was tagged out and couldn't shoot anymore. 2 of the does I shot would not have been taken and tagged.

It's not like we shoot deer and then have to find a tag. We know who has tags and who is willing to let someone else fill that tag BEFORE we go out.

Party hunting is like everything else. It has its pros and cons. I think you guys have to try and remember. I saw 5 deer this entire year in the north woods. Myself or a party member shot 4 of those 5. You guys out West or down South will see 5 - 10 times that each day. You can be a little more selective. Hunting the deep north woods is an entirely different game.


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## ruger1

holmsvc said:


> I completely disagree. If you want to shoot a deer just for meat get a doe tag. People that go out on opening day and shoot spikes make me sick! The only reason these people are even sending in for buck tags now is because they know there will be a doe tag available later.


My g/f shot a spike 1.5 year old opening afternoon. It was the first deer she's ever taken. I wouldn't deny her that for anything. I told her to kill the first deer she saw, no matter what it was. That's the only deer she saw all season. So according to you, shes a pig hunter cause she capitolized on the ONLY opportunity she had all season.

Would you deny her or any first timer of that experience?

Get off your high horse man. You are no better than the rest of us.



> The only reason these people are even sending in for buck tags now is because they know there will be a doe tag available later


This must be a NoDak thing. Here in MN, your primary resident tag allows you a buck or doe. And then you can buy a supplemental doe management tag.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

But what do you do if you shoot 4, your GF shoots 4, and another memeber of the party gets a couple?

Then you ome back and go ahhhhh wait, you actually got a deer! :-?

I would be ticked if someone shot my buck. I would rather go a season without filling the tag then having someone else shoot it. Even if it was the world record who is the one that puts it on the wall? You since it was your tag, or uncle Fred cuz he shot it?

Maybe party hunting for does! :wink:


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## ruger1

hunt4P&Y said:


> But what do you do if you shoot 4, your GF shoots 4, and another memeber of the party gets a couple?
> 
> *Then you ome back and go ahhhhh wait, you actually got a deer! :-? *
> 
> I would be ticked if someone shot my buck. I would rather go a season without filling the tag then having someone else shoot it. Even if it was the world record who is the one that puts it on the wall? You since it was your tag, or uncle Fred cuz he shot it?
> 
> Maybe party hunting for does! :wink:


Radios. That's what they are for. We are all within a mile of each other. When you hear a shot that is likely someone in your group. We turn on the radio. The shooter is supposed to report within 90 seconds if they filled a tag. Then everyone knows that said tag is filled and goes on hunting to fill others.

We have people in our group that say, "Don't fill my buck tag." Or "Don't fill any of my tags, I want to." Ect. That's cool. We don't care.

Again, we saw 12 deer between 8 people over the entire season. We killed 8 of those 12. You NoDak (farm country) guys see that in the opening hours of the morning. It's a little different here.


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## ruger1

Me personally. Once MN rifle season rolls around I've usually been hunting in Montana, and/or Iowa, and/or MN for deer already. Usually I've already got 5-6 deer in the freezer. So I tell everyone shoot away and fill my tags. I just tell them they cannot fill my buck tag. If they shoot my does, so be it.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

This is a decent program for QDM, and it is in the heart on the MInn woods!

It has some things I really like, and others I dislike!

What are your guys thought?

http://www.hillviewmanagement.com/index ... sition=1:1


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## ruger1

hunt4P&Y said:


> This is a decent program for QDM, and it is in the heart on the MInn woods!
> 
> It has some things I really like, and others I dislike!
> 
> What are your guys thought?
> 
> http://www.hillviewmanagement.com/index ... sition=1:1


I like it for the fact they are trying to promote QDM through volunteering and on the honor system as well as educating.

Like I said before, I've let smaller bucks walk only to have them get shot within minutes of leaving my sight. Up here, people take whatever opportunity is presented.

It's not really in what I would call MN woods. That's pretty open farm country with rolling hills.


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## MN goose killa

i tried QDM and it has never worked for me. we shot a 180 incher and 13 does on our 40 acre chunk of land and the next year all there was was spikes. still havent harvested a buck off the land three years later and shot plenty of does. am i doing something wrong?


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

They say it takes about 10 years for a program to really start working.

Those spikes will be big in the net couple years.

Ohh trust me I know how it goes with passing at watching others shoot at a deer. I had a nie 4x4 walk by last year, only had doe tags, but if I did have a buck tag he still would have walked. He walked by at 10 yards, I snapped a picture, he kept on going. I watched him walk almost a mile then started across a harvested bean field.... I knew he was going to get it when he did that. Sure enough truck comes flying down the road and blasts him. Would have been a really nice buck in a couple years. There is nothing you can do about that... Just part of the hunt!

All you can do is try, and let as many others know how to do it! Every person counts!


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## barebackjack

Ruger1, nobody I think is bashing a first time hunter for shooting a spike. What we're referring to are the 20 year veterans who are still doing it. Its a "sausage buck" to them. Or killing their deer is a "speed contest" who can fill out the fastest. If its just about meat, or speed, shoot does.

Also, party hunting is a moot point for us Nodakers as its illegal here.

I too would LOVE to see the rifle season cut to 14 days and start a week later. Let the bowhunters have some more of the rut, after all, their relying on rut tactics, gun hunters arent for the most part.

I think raising the price of a gun buck tag would help to eliminate some of those "sausage buck" guys. Make a doe $5 and guys will kill more. I know id shoot ten a year at five bucks apiece. As it is, I cant afford to shoot much more than 4-5. Also, at least in eastern units where we have excess doe tags most years, make the gun buck tag an "any" tag. That way, those trophy hunters that havent gotten a deer their satisfied with by the last weekend can shoot a doe for the freezer. As it sits now, they have to shoot a inferior buck if they want meat. This defeats QDM strategies.

Theres alot of things that can be done. But our G&F has never been geared towards "quality" deer. Its all about body count.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I however do feel the game and fish is somewhat open on issues. The North Dakota Bowhunters Association is a very active program, and they have helped set many things into law.... I think about the best way to approach it is through a program like that!

It would be interesting to talk to someone in charge of the deer system in ND. See if they would be open to thoughts, or just set on the way it is!

Very good discussion guys! I know we all really have a passion for the sport!


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## walkswithwhispers

Hunt4p&Y,

You CAN talk to someone in charge of the deer management program in ND. That's what advisory board meetings are for. I drove to Casselton about 2 weeks ago and talked to NDGF Director Terry Steinwand, Assistant wildlife division director Greg Link, Fargo Outreach Biologist Doug Leier, and Fargo Game Warden Jason Scott. And this will lead me to my point about why party hunting is illegal in ND...

On party hunting:

I showed up at that advisory board meeting and besides a 14 year old kid who came with his dad, I was the only guy in the room under 40. Young hunters aren't taking a stake in the future of hunting and fishing in ND. Additionally, with a decreasing number of hunters nationally, a rising median age of hunters, and the growing popularity of pay-to-hunt opperations, NEW HUNTERS ARE NOT BEING CREATED. What does that have to do with party hunting?

I've been gun hunting deer since I was 14 but hated hunting until I was 19. Every year I would go along just to appease my dad and every year I would freeze my @$$ off, get up at the buttcrack of dawn, walk for miles and miles day after day after day. Then to top it off somebody else would fill my tag or shoot my limit of pheasants or catch my limit of walleyes. I don't think I shot a pheasant until I was in my 20's. I seldom ever got to take my own game and it ruined the outdoors for me.

To summerize, party hunting overall does a lot more to damage an already weakening hunting tradition than it does to help. I understand how it might be okay in a few instances but most of the time it's bad news.


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## walkswithwhispers

On a seperate note, what happens when deer numbers go back down and a guy is lucky to even get a doe tag? The justification for charging different prices for buck and doe tags kind of loses its reasoning. Just raising the question. I too am in favor of cheaper doe tags.


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## barebackjack

walkswithwhispers said:


> On a seperate note, what happens when deer numbers go back down and a guy is lucky to even get a doe tag? The justification for charging different prices for buck and doe tags kind of loses its reasoning. Just raising the question. I too am in favor of cheaper doe tags.


Honestly, I dont see that happening here. Not saying a bad winter wont hurt our numbers, but we have such an amazing food base here (at least the eastern 2/3rds of the state) that even in a bad winter alot of deer survive. ND is a far cry from the "big woods" where bad winters absolutely decimate populations.

And, its pretty simple to change the tag prices again if that ever occurs.


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## walkswithwhispers

And, its pretty simple to change the tag prices again if that ever occurs.[/quote]

Actually it takes legislative action to set licensing fees. So it would be a bit combersome.


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## barebackjack

walkswithwhispers said:


> And, its pretty simple to change the tag prices again if that ever occurs.


Actually it takes legislative action to set licensing fees. So it would be a bit combersome.[/quote]

That too can be changed. the Legislation could mandate or delegate that authority to the DNR, G&F or what have you. Perhaps under a "emergency clause" during a low population time frame. Im just saying, it can be done, its just not.


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## MN goose killa

anyone think about the earn-a-buck program will highly come into effect soon? i think it will in the zone that i'm in.


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## MN goose killa

???


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## lesser

I need to hear the dimensions on that 192 inch deer before I can believe any of the story. Looks like a 150 inch deet to me. Could be the picture. Don't mean to be that guy but 192 inches is a ton of antlers.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

lesser said:


> I need to hear the dimensions on that 192 inch deer before I can believe any of the story. Looks like a 150 inch deet to me. Could be the picture. Don't mean to be that guy but 192 inches is a ton of antlers.


Don't have them... but it is. Trust me.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

lesser said:


> I need to hear the dimensions on that 192 inch deer before I can believe any of the story. Looks like a 150 inch deet to me. Could be the picture. Don't mean to be that guy but 192 inches is a ton of antlers.


Ok, here is my 146" deer inside of the 192.... Hope it shows the shear mass, and tine length!


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## taddy1340

hunt4P&Y said:


> lesser said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need to hear the dimensions on that 192 inch deer before I can believe any of the story. Looks like a 150 inch deet to me. Could be the picture. Don't mean to be that guy but 192 inches is a ton of antlers.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, here is my 146" deer inside of the 192.... Hope it shows the shear mass, and tine length!
Click to expand...

Wow...that is quite a difference. Why did you shoot such a small deer Waffle? :lol:


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Taddy, I asked myself that question the whole 3 hours I stared at that rack! Honestly if you saw this buck on foot I am guessing most guys would judge him at 220 inches. It just looks massive!

Anyways! Hope that gives a better idea of what it is!


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## lesser

looks 5 times bigger now. I feel better about the story. Sorry I just wanted to see more pictures to believe it. The picture has no justice in the beginning.
Thanks


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

lesser said:


> looks 5 times bigger now. I feel better about the story. Sorry I just wanted to see more pictures to believe it. The picture has no justice in the beginning.
> Thanks


No I understand. Just remember that is a yard table... So like 5 feet across and that bugger fills it up!


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## swampbuck

im in my second year without harvesting a buck on a 200 acre piece with lots of deer habitat around it. neighbors shoot all the little ones. trail cams this summer only showed one deer that was at least 2.5 yrs old. this spring while shed hunting i found two dead bucks with perfect little basket racks, im sure they were shot. it s very frusturating. anyone have success with similar scenarios or is 200 acres just too small? im contemplating renewing the lease, i can go a mile north and shoot a doe on the public for free catch my drift.

also any ideas on how to persuade the neighbors to agree on letting younger deer pass my attempts so far have gone no where


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## MN goose killa

swampbuck said:


> also any ideas on how to persuade the neighbors to agree on letting younger deer pass my attempts so far have gone no where


i have tried doing that and the guy said he was told bby dnr to manage deer. he thought shooting spikes was good management. there was no changing his mind.


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## barebackjack

swampbuck said:


> im in my second year without harvesting a buck on a 200 acre piece with lots of deer habitat around it. neighbors shoot all the little ones. trail cams this summer only showed one deer that was at least 2.5 yrs old. this spring while shed hunting i found two dead bucks with perfect little basket racks, im sure they were shot. it s very frusturating. anyone have success with similar scenarios or is 200 acres just too small? im contemplating renewing the lease, i can go a mile north and shoot a doe on the public for free catch my drift.
> 
> also any ideas on how to persuade the neighbors to agree on letting younger deer pass my attempts so far have gone no where


Give it time. Post it up, make sure any others that hunt it know your intentions, that you want to let some of those smaller bucks go.

You said the 200 acres you lease has lots of habitat AROUND it, but what is the 200 acres itself like. If its poor habitat, than I would start at improving that, if possible.


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## swampbuck

great habitat 15 acres of woods 170 acres switchgrass and restored prairie the rest is scrub brush and one large pond 6 acres then a couple more small spots that stay wet excellent habitat


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## PSDC

QDM may be irrelevant if the snow keeps piling up in Minnesota
and the colder weather stays around. The winter index will go
through the roof! Then throw in the mix of the timber wolf 
population and some areas of the state will have no deer left!


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## MN goose killa

PSDC said:


> QDM may be irrelevant if the snow keeps piling up in Minnesota
> and the colder weather stays around. The winter index will go
> through the roof! Then throw in the mix of the timber wolf
> population and some areas of the state will have no deer left!


whatever u say.


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## deerslayer80

MN's been through worse winters then this and the deer toughed through it. Deer have an amazing will to survive. There's nothing this winter won't do that most other wouldn't do.


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