# Ukraine/Trump/Biden



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So I am trying to make sense of this whole mess.

Please anyone jump in with any info.

But this is what I have gathered so far.

1. Trump asked someone to investigate Biden and his family.
2. Trump possibly said he would with hold some aid to the Ukraine if they didn't investigate
3. That aid got delivered and wasn't contingent on the investigation
4. Biden back when he was VP told the Ukraine to fire a procecuter that was looking into a company his son got hired by.
5. Biden said he would with hold billions in aid if that guy didn't get fired.
6. Guy got fired
7. Ukraine got the aid
8. Bidens son got the job for that company.
9. The investigation that Trump wanted was with the payment biden was talking about and his son's job/company for corruption.

Ok.... so those are the facts that I know of so far. Anyone else want to jump in with facts?

To me it seems that the Dem's want to impeach Trump for the exact same thing one of their canidates did while was the VP of the USA. It also seems to me that the Dem's are saying that Trump is trying to get political info or intel from a foreign country.

What about the steel dossier? Wasn't that done by a foreign outlet? What about the "leaked" info on Manfort's business dealings? wasn't that from the Ukraine?

All I am saying is if Trump did something wrong go after him.... but you need to go after the same people on the Democratic side as well. Because it looks like they did the exact same thing. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Some other stuff I am finding out...

1. The Whistle-blower complaint was of "second hand" knowledge. So it wasn't even first hand.... 
- Is this another Kavanaugh I heard from a friend who heard from a friend that they heard from his brother that such and such happened???

2. Trump is releasing the transcript of the conversation.

3. Media types are not even happy about the release of the transcript saying it must be doctored :eyeroll:

Not sure if this is true or not....

But Pelosi is said to be saying to day they will go ahead with impeachment..... This will be interesting. I see the exact same thing that happened with the "Clinton" impeachment. Say good by to any majority for the Dem's. That is what happened with the Republicans when they went after Bill Clinton. oke:

I know people are sick and tired of all of the BS and false stuff flying around. Just look at what happened with the latest Kavanaugh stuff..... it back fired because it was all BS. Now will this blow back or not? time will tell.

Like I mentioned in my previous post.... if trump is impeachable by this offense... the so should biden and then looking into if Obama knew of what Biden was doing.... That would be impeachable as well if he directed Biden to do what he did.

If impeachment goes thru... they might have kicked a hornets nest that they might have wanted to let sleep. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

Time line of events so far.

Also if Trump or his team broke laws and put at risk national security. It needs to be investigated and possible charges need to be brought up.

But we have been hearing this for over 2 years.... so let the investigations play out and see what comes of it. :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

They day they are releasing the entire conversation with no redactions. This is just like the Kavanaugh case, and the Russia collusion. Like a person on FOX said tonight, they can't beat him in 2020 so this is their only chance.

If they impeach him without proper grounds instead of the Senate voting they somehow should ask for a Supreme Court decision. Just to put more mud on the face of the deranged party that hates Trump more than they care for the USA.

I think the democrats just put Trump in for another term, and will possibly loose substantial seats in congress.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So last night as I was watching the news or the "big 3" (Fox, CNN, MSNBC). Watching these shows you got two very different reactions to what is going on. On Fox they pretty much said it was nothing new because Nadler is doing an impeachment investigation. This new one by Pelosi is going to do the exact same thing but now is looking in a different direction...ie: Ukrainian stuff. But then they deflected all on Biden and his dealings while he was the VP and also some on Obama on what he knew or didn't know. Then on the other two stations... they were almost giddy and going nuts. They were all about the "got him". Saying they got the smoking gun. Which they might.... but nobody has seen the transcripts or listened to the phone call.

Also on CNN and MSNBC they were going nuts or saying that "the transcript isn't enough".... even when they haven't seen it. They also were going crazy saying "Trump is meeting with the Ukranian president and there better be someone there taking notes"... They also are going off of Schiff's talking points about how the "whistleblower" needs to testify and what not. Not just saying the transcripts of the calls or even the complaint is enough...ie: the written formal complaint to be released.

My take on what I just typed is that I believe these news sources might have jumped the gun again and didn't wait for facts to come out. So they are trying to stir up things. Just my gut feeling because we have been thru this before. But only time will tell and we need to let this play out to see what is going on for sure.

But anyways... some new info that came out last night. Some of it is accurate other is a "source"...

1. A "source" says the whistleblower has political bias. We will have to see about this.
2. The transcript is being released. (just like plainsmans stated.... unredacted and unedited)

So again lets let the fact play out and see what comes of it.

But to be honest.... the Dem's better hope they find something or this will be a huge black eye on them and I would honestly predict them losing seats in both the house and senate. Because it is getting ridiculous on what is happening. All you hear out of peoples mouths is "impeachment"..... of Trump, Kavanaugh, etc. People will want leaders who will actually do something in congress not just keep bringing up investigations.

Also what I am afraid of is what will the political future will bring on all aspects. Will this be the new norm. If you don't like the people elected or in office keep bringing up BS claims and "investigate" them. No matter what political side you are on this should worry all of us. Our government is now a reality TV show and circus. Our media is the same way. I am not saying this as a Dem vs Rep thing. I am saying this as a whole. All of the political partys, news outlets, papers, "journalists", etc. All of it is pointing that what I mentioned is in our future. They all would rather play these games, not report facts, jump to conclusions, etc. I honestly weep for the future of this unless something changes. I hate to say it we as a society need to start to lay down the hammer on people spreading false info or somehow make them more liable or responsible for the false stuff they push. Yes this goes for FOX, CNN, MSNBC, NY Post, etc.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Article by the Wash Post...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

The Transscript:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

What I take from the transcript is this..
1. Trump giving congratulations for the President of the Ukraine and his Political party winning the majority.

2. Trump telling him he is happy to work with them with sanctions on Russia and that the EU needs to do more.

3. Trump asking him to possibly get to the bottom of the whole Biden thing. (which many people have been talking about since the Mueller probe started)

4. Trump talking about how he hopes the new president will help clear the image of corruption that the Ukraine had in its past political system. (which we know they did)

5. Then Trump offering or asking for Barr and Rudy to go help or get info for a Biden investigation. Which that is what is going on right now.... remember Barr is investigating all.... Steel Dossier, Hacking of the DNC, emails, etc. This investigation is on going as we speak.

6. Trump and the president talking about meeting again in the USA.

Go ahead and read it yourself. But those are my takes. He never said he would give aid or take away any aid from the Ukraine. He never asked for a "quid pro quo" type situation. Remember there is tape of biden saying that he was going to pull money away from the Ukraine if they didn't fire someone....Biden even "bragged" about that.

So again.... so far as of what has come out IMHO isn't that "damning" or "smoking gun". to me it is two leaders talking about major situations happening in both countries... ie: Corruption, Defense of Ukraine, Russia sanctions, etc.

In the first article/link it states that the DOJ and FBI looked into this phone call to see if it was breaking any laws. They determined that it didn't. So it has all ready been looked into.

So again... read and share what you thinking it means. I could be way off based and like hearing others perspectives. It is to make informed decisions.

Edit...

A side note.... Is it possible that the Dem's don't want Biden to get the nod for their party.... so are they doing this to throw him under the bus as well as Trump????


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Just read on twitter.... So take if with a grain of salt.

But the whistle blower from the Ukraine was a former staff member for Clinton and Schummer.

Question.... how come everytime someone talks "Impeachment" the people with the "info or smoking gun" have ties to Clinton.... The last Kavanugh third party "heard something from someone from somewhere that they were at the party".. Kavanaugh latest book excerpt.

So again... still waiting for more facts to come out on this subject. Before I make a total determination if this is nothing or something.

Edit:

I hope we don't find out that the whistleblower will end up suicided like most people who have knowledge of stuff around the Clinton campaign.... LOL


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

This one is a pretty good read. Not too slanted but gives a run down of what was in the transcript.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Also just read on twitter.... so again take it with a grain of salt.

But last year the Dem's sent a letter to the Ukraine asking them to investigate Trump. So the same thing that they are wanting to impeach trump with.

I am still in the wait and see mode on this whole thing. But it doesn't look good for the democratic party. Again as of now.... Waiting to see if the "twitter" rumblings are true or not.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019 ... ate-trump/

Article about the Letter Dem's wrote to the Ukraine in 2018 to investigate Trump. :eyeroll:


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

if he did anything wrong he should fry... there was NO QUID PRO QUO so it is another in the endless stream of democrap attempts to try and beat him other ways.... they HATE that the economy is doing well, taxes are down, industry is returning and minorities are THRIVING... they are losing their grip of power and not happy about it. Very sad.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Edit:

The whistleblower worked/interned for Schummer back in 2001 and also with Clinton around that time as well. So 18 years or so have gone by. Also the law firm representing the whistleblower has given money to Clinton and other dem's campaigns. Which again doesn't mean anything but just stating facts that need to be out there. Someone's can have a political affiliation and still do a good job. But again the facts need to be presented. :beer:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> if he did anything wrong he should fry... there was NO QUID PRO QUO so it is another in the endless stream of democrap attempts to try and beat him other ways.... they HATE that the economy is doing well, taxes are down, industry is returning and minorities are THRIVING... they are losing their grip of power and not happy about it. Very sad.


Agreed.... lets not also forget that he is trying with trade. Today he just made a deal with japan. Which is our 4th largest trade partner. They will lower tarrifs on farm goods. Lets also not forget that the deal that is waiting to get ratified in the house with Mexico and Canada. Which again is good for the farmers. Now he just needs to finish the deal with china.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

Here is the full whistle blower complaint.

My take on it is that it is Trump and Rudy trying to find out about the DNC issues and the possible meddling they are accused of in the 2016 election. The stuff Barr and the State Dept. are investigating as we speak.

Did Rudy over step his authority.... possibly. It all depends on if he is acting for the State and has the proper clearances and what not. Or is he acting as an independent contractor or investigator. The first he better have his stuff in line or he is over stepping... (ie; permission from the state department and Barr or who every is leading that investigation) The second he should be in the clear...especially if he documents everything. Because you and I can go over and investigate if we wanted too. Just getting access might be harder.

Now what has come out on the alleged political bias on the whistle blower. Nothing has really come out and so far the things I mentioned are not proven to be true. So that whole can of worms is still in the air.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://thefederalist.com/2019/09/25/cn ... yo.twitter

This is why you cant trust any media. Look how they "hacked up" the transcript to push a narrative.

I am sorry all of this is turning into the "Little boy who cried wolf". One party keeps yelling FIRE FIRE FIRE and yet it amounts to nothing. Soon people will tune out when there is actually a fire. :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> "Little boy who cried wolf"


 That's how I have been looking at the democrat party as of late. The little boy who cried wolf only made those false statements three times before no one believed him. The incredible thing is the democrat party has cried wolf dozens of times and people still believe them, or are so partisan they pretend to believe it and in that capacity are complicit with the lie.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Very Sad indeed.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So after listening to many talking heads over my lunch break (CNN and MSNBC)&#8230;

1. Lots of them are saying what Biden did doesn't matter in this situation.

2. What Biden did was investigated and was proven to be not an issue.

Ok... lets look at this. I will give them a little leeway on that what Biden did doesn't matter. yes because we are talking about the president. But you need to compare what Biden did vs what Trump did. Which one is worse? Which one is keeping aid from someone or QUID PRO QUO. Remember one said explicitly... I will keep aid back if you don't do this. The other one was no where near that. In honesty never brought up a tick for tac type situation. Just asked for investigations in all sorts of things... Crowdstrike, DNC server, Emails, Biden, etc. Remember these are all rumors and things getting throw out with all of the investigations that went on and are still going on.

Now lets get to #2.... So if what Biden did was proven not an issue.... How can what Trump did be an issue? Again see above about one explicitly had a quid pro quo... the other didn't.

So again the talking heads on those news networks are just horrible.... I honestly think they are getting worse and worse every day. Hard to tell what is a fact anymore. Especially when they talk over anyone who is trying to point out the other side of an issue. that is one thing I will give Fox somewhat more credit for. They almost 90% of the time is let people give their side or a chance to rebuttal. :bop:

But again to anyone.... no matter what side of the spectrum you are on.... get your news not from just one station or outlet. Look at all then make your informed decision.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

OMG... ok.... now you know what people are saying...

It wasn't that Trump talked about Biden.... now it is that all of this was a "cover up". Like the Intel Chief was covering it up and hiding it from everyone. uke:

So the Intel Chief sought out guidance by the DOJ and White house to see if things were classified and what not. A private convo between two heads of countries could be considered top secret or classified. especially when the DOJ and others are looking into corruption on all levels. Then the lie about how the Intel Chief said he was going to quit because of pressure from the white house. He came out and said that is a complete lie!!! yet "news sources" jumped all over that.

This shows you how there is no substance to anything right now. They jump from one thing to another and another.

I am honestly worried about how our political future and the future of this country will be. If this is any indication on how elected officials will act.... it is scary. Schiff lied and did a "parody" of the transcript. He didn't let the transcript speaks for itself. WHAT THE HELL!!! It shows you how this is all a reality tv show and straight BS. If they had the smoking gun (which they said they had a few days ago)&#8230; let it speak for itself. Both the whistle blower complaint and transcript read the same. One just outlines the concerns of a party who heard it.

I am glad that the whistle blower had the complaint.... it was something that should have been looked at. It was and deemed not urgent by other officials that reviewed it. Just like when the Intel Chief sought out others and shared it with them.

Now if you scream.... Trumps whole team is corrupt.... then why didn't Bidens transcript get brought up to congress or had a complaint? Like I said in my previous post. Which one is more damning of evidence of holding power/money over someone. :bop:

Edit:
Also the whistle blower was not a member of the intelligence community. So it wasn't the normal channels things go thru. Hence why the Intel Chief sought counsel on how to handle it. This could really get interesting if they ever find out or tell the public where the complaint came from. Remember in the complaint the whistle blower was citing a new article by The Hill.... as part of his concern. I am also reading that the "whistle blower" is in the CIA... which according to what I just typed isn't true. I am glad that the Intel Chief has stated over and over. That the white house and people haven't asked who the whistle blower is to keep him protected and the procedure of making such complaints still valid and people wont be afraid to keep doing them. BUT...&#8230; if it is shown or comes to light that it was all political BS and games. Something needs to happen. It will truly show that people's hatred of Trump is stronger than any love for this country.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

WOW....

Ok read a little article now where Pelosi says, "we need to the country ahead of the party". :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

So then why isn't she working with the president for the past 3 years? Why is the USMCA still not ratified? Why are they not working on immigration?..... we could go on and on.

Then she also commented on how the DOJ is going rogue now..... REALLY!!!! What was going on in the DOJ prior to Barr..... the leaking, the going after only Trump and not others.... etc.

Sorry the more and more I read about this the less and less I have faith in our elected officials.... ALL OF THEM. The Rep need to stand up and decry all of this. Some are and others are silent. I hope they are waiting for more facts to come out.... but as of now they are doing what they have been for 3 years..... nothing and staying silent on everything.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

OK my thought is ,if you are going to investigate Trump for this don't you almost have to investigate the claim it was based on ? in other words investigate Biden and his son ? Wouldnt one have to determine if the item being used for leverage even has substinance.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I think they got caught with their pants down because like I have heard and talked about....

President Bill Clinton signed a treaty authorizing co-operation between the Ukraine and the USA when investigating corruption. So it isn't using "leverage" if one asks the other to help dig up stuff or investigate. IE: Trump asked about crowd strike, DNC servers and lost emails, and of course Biden. Which again Biden has bragged about how he said he would with hold aid if a certain person wasn't fired. That guy who got fired was getting investigated for corruption.

Also on the fact about the Biden issue. How can one be ok and the other not??? I know they said that Biden was investigated and cleared. Which is fine and dandy.... but then how can you call foul on Trump? Like I mentioned they got caught with pants down.... So that is why I think they are moving or screaming about a "cover up" now.

Now I am not saying that this could or doesn't look like a possible "cover up". Because it kind of does with moving stuff to a different classified place and what not. But.... like they have mentioned about all the "leaks" of other calls it shows possible reasoning for doing so. Also the fact that the whistle blower complaint wasn't a normal one. Like it was the same channels that the intel chief was used to handling or it didn't follow the same procedures. So that is why he asked for help from the DOJ and White house. Again... that makes sense to me. It was all explained when the Intel Chief testified. I would even be saying this if it was a different president in office. Because when things do follow a certain protocol different steps are needed. I can see that. But I would be doing the same as dems did... ie: lets see the transcript, the complaint and have the people testify why they did certain things. Which has been done... and explained. So this should be a dead issue.

I think this all boils down to is hatred of Trump. Ben Shapiro summed it up best ... If you like Trump or in the middle... you can see that this is nothing and should be done and over with. If you hate Trump or dislike him.... you see that the sky is falling and he the worse thing ever. It is all how your mind set is about Trump.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Another Tidbit of knowledge on this whole thing....

Schiff had knowledge of this back in mid August. The whistle blower sent or filed paper work that went to two congressmen.... One was Schiff. So why did he wait this long to bring it up? Hopefully he was doing due diligence... but I think we know the answer to that. We are still waiting for his direct evidence in the Russian Hoax that he always said he had but never produced. :bop:

Again the more this is playing out the more and more it doesn't look good for the Dem's and our country as a whole. It is putting a riff between people and the public.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.congress.gov/treaty-documen ... ument-text

Here is a link to the Treaty I was talking about.

And yes Biden could have fallen under this in his actions. So he could possibly have been cleared of wrong doing by this. But he was a direct quid pro quo compared to anything trump said. :bop: So that claim against Trump should be put to bed ASAP.

This should also be put to bed about the "asking foreign help with elections".... it just happens Biden was the one involved.

I honestly think that this is more about the Dem's getting Biden out of the race and also trying to hurt trump.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

The democrat party, fbi, cia, usda, dhs, media, "journalists", some republicans, etc and so on have become the boy crying wolf. Most people I know and myself included don't listen to them anymore. They lost what little credibility they had long, long ago. So this Ukraine business is just part of the dog and pony show until they come up with another sequel. It will never slow until maybe 2024. Depends if trump wins again. No one except some underling patsy will ever pay any consequence for what the powerful elite have done or not done. Of that I am sure.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://freebeacon.com/politics/abcs-bo ... lls-apart/

So journalism shows its true colors again..... uke: uke: uke: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Chuck Smith said:


> https://www.congress.gov/treaty-document/106th-congress/16/document-text
> 
> Here is a link to the Treaty I was talking about.
> 
> ...


*
*

My thought exactly. They are trying to kill 2 birds with one stone. It's becoming obvious that the Dems don't really want Biden as their candidate but don't want to say it to his face.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Quite possibly 3 or more birds with one stone. If Trump wins in 2020 he will really, REALLY be a lame duck president. He could very well be impeached in the house and could he legitimately pick Supreme Court nominees in such a position? How will it effect other presidential duties? If they can't overturn an election they are going to neuter politically him and render him politically impotent.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Some things that have popped up today and over the weekend...

1. They are subpoenaing Rudy and Pompeo.
2. Schiff is getting called out on his BS parody of the call. Which he should because if the transcript cant be read and be considered "damning" evidence... then what do you have but made up facts???
3. The form change... ie: who changed it and why? This is needed because it could show bias or it could show now no bias.
4. Coming out that Schiff possibly knew of complaint before it was filed? This needs hammered out.
5. Pelosi knew of what was in the call and complaint before it was made public.... HOW DID THIS HAPPEN? Was something leaked? Or did it go thru proper channels.

All of these things need to be sorted out. They could hurt Trump or clear him. But these things need to be answered.

But like many of us have mentioned or worried about is the future of our politics. Because if you don't like the person that was elected..... just do what they are doing to Trump. That is what is scary. The Mueller Probe opened up a can of worms for everyone. That is why or what is happening now. Waiting on the IG report about Steel and what not. This could get real ugly ASAP.... and that isn't good at all for our country. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

A new tid bit....

Now it is coming out by a NYT and WASH Post article that Trump "Pressed" elected officials from Australia to help find out info on the Steel issue and others.

Again need to take this with a grain of salt.... because,..

1. Is the first time hearing about this and need more facts.
2. It is an article by the W. Post and NYT.... those two haven't been too credible lately. :beer: oke:

But again let facts come out.

But lots more is yet to come. This side show has just started. I can fore see another Kavanaugh thing coming now with false story after false story.... just wait.... Avanetii will make an appearance soon.... :bop:

But again lets let the facts come out. :thumb:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

This is all a setup. A month ago they changed the definition of a whistleblower. In the past they had to have first hand experience. Now it can be second or third person relating a complaint. Why the change? Why now?

If our country is to survive there needs to be some harsh consequences for the media and politicians who make this crap up.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So now all this stuff coming out about Barr...

That he is asking for help with investigating stuff.

Well to be honest is was explained pretty good last night on Fox.

1. He is currently investigating the whole thing.... ie: Steel, Fusion, missing emails, DNC Server, etc. So it is very common to ask countries to help with investigations. Especially if the said country has been mentioned.

2. He isn't doing this for "Trump" like some of the media wants you to believe. He is doing this with his independent investigations after everything came to light with the Mueller Probe.

3. He is just following up on everything that was in the Mueller Probe that "wasn't" in the scope of what Mueller's objective was....ie: Trump. Mueller wasn't investigating Steel, Fusion, etc. He was just investigating Trump. So when those things popped up he didn't run down that rabbit hole. Now Barr is running down those rabbit holes.

So again this is all BS by the media and a diversion by the Dem's who are crying "FOUL" on this issue with Barr. Barr is doing his job which he said he would do is get to the bottom on ANY election meddling. :bop:

Edit:

Be very leery of "BOMBSHELLS" by the media. Remember all the bombshells during the Mueller investigation that turned out to be nothing.

Also everything that Trump or the DOJ does to try and figure out any meddling in the past election will look like Trump is trying to gain "dirt" on a political rival. Just because Biden is running and he was involved is some of the stuff going on since he worked with the white house. Also anything will "look" like he is going after Dem's.... well in the Mueller Report some not so good things came out about the Dem's and those need to be explained.

I remember when the whole thing started I mentioned it is a path they might not want to travel down.... now those chickens are coming to roost. :bop:


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I want to see the full transcripts of:

1. Biden conversing with Ukrainians officials. Especially those calling for the firing of prosecutor investigating his son.
2. John Kerry and his son who were also involved in Ukrainian affairs with Joe Biden and Hunter Biden.
3. Obama and his conversations with Iranian officials relating especially to the Iran Nuclear Deal.
4. Hillary Clinton and everything, but primarily her conversations with respect to the Russian Uranium Deal and the Clinton Foundation.
5. Biden's and Rosemont-Seneca partners and deal with China receiving Chinese government money (1.5 billion dollars) for investment opportunity in Shanghai Free Trade Zone.
6. Transcripts between Obama and Biden relating to all these unlawful activities.

Oh wait. Only Democrats can investigate Trump. Anyone who reads the transcript between Trump and the Ukrainian president Zelensky and has a brain can determine there is absolutely nothing nefarious.

This whole thing, all the investigations and impeachment banter is simply a cover for Democrat and Republican establishment crimes committed past and present. A hoodwink. Horns-waggle. Look here instead of over there. I hope the majority of the American citizenry can see it for what it is. If not we are up the creek without a paddle approaching the Niagara Falls.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

One thing I Do agree on with some of the Dem's on this issue.

That the whistleblower shouldn't be outted. They shouldn't be in the public eye at all. Do they need to answer questions or be brought to a committee and interviewed.... yes. But not be made public. Because that would go against the autonomy of the whole thing. Which will make people not file complaints or report wrong doing in the future.

But should they meet in secret with a bipartisan committee.... YES.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

In a court of law hearsay is not allowed. This person should not be allowed to be a whistleblower or testify. Would any of us like to go to court based on rumors someone heard from someone else. Also what happened to the right to face your accuser? In the end we will know who this person is. It's going to be to hard to keep a secret.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

A few new things....

1. Pompeo was on the phone call.
- This doesn't matter unless he states that something other than what was in the transcript happened. Because that is what the issue is. Not who listened in on the call. It is a distraction that the Dem's and Media are trying to use.

2. The Dem's are threatening Subpoena's on everyone. 
- This is important because if people don't show up or documents are not given. Obstruction charges could arise. Or the media will keep yelling "COVER UP". But any documents need to be vetted for classified info just like in any case. But I really don't know what they are looking for now. Because they have the complaint, they have the transcript of the call.... what else do they need with this??

I heard last night that a Republican who wanted the aid not withheld from the Ukraine went to Trump and pleaded his case for why it shouldn't be withheld. The guy stated that all Trump did was complain that the rest of the EU needs to do more. So what Trump has stated is shaping up to be the truth. :bop:

This whole thing is shaping up to be all smoke and mirrors again.

Like I mentioned..... the boy who cried wolf is happening and more and more citizens are getting fed up with it.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Chuck Smith said:


> One thing I Do agree on with some of the Dem's on this issue.
> 
> *That the whistleblower shouldn't be outted.* They shouldn't be in the public eye at all. Do they need to answer questions or be brought to a committee and interviewed.... yes. But not be made public. Because that would go against the autonomy of the whole thing. Which will make people not file complaints or report wrong doing in the future.
> 
> But should they meet in secret with a bipartisan committee.... YES.


I don't believe this to be possible anymore. Our gov't. leaks information like a sieve .. Nothing is safe anymore....Sad because these are the people who are supposed to be KEEPING our secrets..... What is sadder is there is no punishment when they do it. congress isn't gonna punish one of their own for something they are all doing.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Plainsman said:


> In a court of law hearsay is not allowed. This person should not be allowed to be a whistleblower or testify. Would any of us like to go to court based on rumors someone heard from someone else. Also what happened to the right to face your accuser? In the end we will know who this person is. It's going to be to hard to keep a secret.


AHHH You forget &#8230;. Congress does not feel the rules of law and evidence applies to them.....


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Something new to add into this whole mix....

Schiff knew about the complaint before it was filed. His office and he was advised about it.

Now this is interesting because the article states that he told him to get a lawyer and told him somethings to do. Yet in the article it never states he shared this "early warning" with anyone else in the committee.

Things could get interesting... or he followed the correct channels. But I would get the popcorn ready for all the conspiracy theories that will be flying around...&#8230; Big Foot might even get a sighting.... oke:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/us/p ... lower.html


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

New "emergency meeting" by the IG with 3 committee's.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

No clue what it could be about. But something that just happened.

Could be about Schiff, could be about WB bias, could be about Biden, could be about Trump, could be about Rudy..... etc.

Lots of what if's that need to be answered with what is coming out. Also I wouldn't believe anything in the media as of now.... NYT, Wash Post, NY Post, etc. All have shown bias in the past. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

This article should make everyone mad. It seems Schiff is going rogue and not letting the GOP in on the investigation. Only one staff member is being allowed in the interviewing process. So now committee's investigating anything don't have to be equal? It can all be one sided??



> The lead Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee wrote Wednesday evening: "I was alarmed to learn - less than 24 hours before the first interview is scheduled to start - that it will be led by the Intelligence Committee and that questioning will be done solely by their staff."


If Schiff doesn't let more Republican's in on this investigation. It will show more and more how it is a "witch hunt". It honestly will show that he needs to step down. Because of his actions..... 2 years of saying he has proof and then never producing the proof.... the parody when giving his open statements. Which why would you even do such a thing. (I would be screaming foul if a Rep did that). Now this... It doesn't look good at all.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Is it possible Schiff wants to find out what could implicate him and bury it before any of this goes public ?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> NYT, Wash Post, NY Post, etc. All have shown bias in the past. :bop:


 After they lie a few dozen times even I catch on. :homer:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I caught on to Tiny Trump's lies the past 3 years a long time ago. To bad the lemmings in the Republican Party haven't.

Now today this clown comes right out and asks China to help him stop one of his political rivals. Title from Fox News.....
Trump calls for China to investigate Biden family.

Asking China and Ukraine to interfere in the next election is an impeachable offense. Can he really be this stupid? :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

He is basically saying "I can say and do what I want. Try and stop me."


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

If Biden broke the law in China or the Ukraine it would have to be them that investigated. If the accusations are made why is it wrong to ask them to start an investigation into those accusations? Or is this another one of those TDS situations?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

OK.....lets let foreign governments influence out election process. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ken if Joe Smuck commits murder can he run for president and no one can touch him because it interferes with the election? It's time to give up the foolishness about election interference. It's not a get out of jail free card.
I never thought in my lifetime I would hear democrats complain about election interference, but their NO is accuse others of what they do.

Ken have you not watched the video of Biden bragging about withholding a billion dollars if th he Ukrain didn't fire the prosecutor investigating his son? areas the transcript on line and find that Trump didn't say what the democrats and the media are reporting. However Biden did do what he and the media deny. It's all available for any reasonable person to come to that conclusion.

There exists absolute truth, but fools convince themselves they are philosophers when like Pontious Pilote they say truth truth what is truth. Certainly the media and our Washington democrats don't grasp truth.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Biden video...






I like how the media and everyone is saying it is Election meddling when Trump is asking them to investigate corruption. He is asking about the "quid pro quo" in the video. He is asking how did an elected officials son with no experience get these million dollar deals? Also he flew on air force 2 to China to do the deal. It happens to be a person running for Pres. son.

I honestly think this is more about the Dem's getting Biden out of the race. I think the progressives don't want him in office since he in the most middle ground of them all. Not to sound bigoted or anything.... But I think they want a woman, a person of color, or a combo of the mentioned. Biden is "an old white guy".


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The biggest issue I have is that Schiff and Pelosi are trying to move impeachment without anyone from the Rep side.

What I mean is at least Nadler is having hearings where Rep's can question the witnesses and what not. What Schiff and Pelosi are doing is more closed door and trying to keep the Rep's out of the mix. Like I posted about only allowing 1 Rep. staff member in certain meetings.

If the charges are accurate and impeachment is going to happen. Everyone needs to know what is going on. There is due process. Yet they are trying to not follow due process as of now.

That is what is really getting to me. Also it should indicate if the charge is really real or not. Because if it was real you would see a vote on the floor, you would see joint meetings with both Dem's and Rep's.... you wouldn't see the shifting of "goal posts" or the daily saying something else is what they are looking into not what they first stated. I love how one of the last articles I read they talked about the use of (&#8230 in the transcript. Saying that those must me they are hiding things. :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

More stuff out....

Ambassador Volker testimony says the same as what Trump as been saying. NO QUIP PRO QUO was inferred or thought of by the Ukrainian officials. They didn't think aid was tied to anything the President said in the phone call.

So right now with the transcript, this testimony along with others (Sondland) both say the exact same thing the President has been saying. The media is cherry picking what people read or the texts have been "leaked". Hope Schiff will release the whole interview to the public. I am getting my info off of twitter from Republican Congressmen who have read the transcript from the meeting.

Just wait a week and this will all be brushed under the rug. I am sure now it will be "Trump is asking help from CHINA".... Just like the Austrailian "bombshell".... which turned out to be a dud. :bop:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I was in Canada all last week. Didn't watch much news. Been busy this past week getting caught up on family business and sleep.
Getting old. We will have to see how this plays out. My question is.....What did Tiny offer the Ukraine and China. They aren't dumb enough to do it for free. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

that is just it..... he offered NOTHING. Because he never said do "this" for me and I will do "that" for u.

If you read the transcript. He talks about lots of stuff.

1. US giving aid to Ukraine. (military equipment)
2. How Europe isn't helping the Ukraine enough.....ie: germany.
3. Corruption of the past Ukraine government.
4. Crowdstrike, DNC servers, emails, then Biden.
5. The Ukraine president brings up Biden before Trump
6. Trump offers or asks for the President to meet with Barr and Rudy

Then it comes out that the USA has a corruption Treaty with Ukraine that each government can ask the other for help.

Then it comes out that the Ukraine didn't know the USA was withholding aid. They thought they were still getting it.

Then it comes out that the Ukraine president never felt pressured to investigate Biden or he wouldn't get aid.

Then it comes out when Republicans who met with Trump about not sending the Aid to Ukraine that all Trump could talk about is how Europe should be paying its fair share and not the burden on the USA.

Then the past two days the "interviews" with ambassador and the other guy saying Trump never did a quid pro quo.

You see the evidence isn't there at all.

The only hiccup is when, where, etc that Rudy was doing his "investigation".... or why he was doing it. But Rudy has been saying it was before biden even announced he was running. Rudy was digging up stuff on the Russian case to defend Trump with the Mueller Probe. So in is just now for Rudy to produce stuff to show his timeline and the whole thing should be DEBUNKED.

BTW.... How was your trip to Canada? Hope you had a good hunt. I haven't been up that way in about 10 years. got coaching youth football so stopped going. Now cant swing away because of work. Missed those days laying in the wheat stubble and laying the smack down on big oranged feet mallards. :sniper: :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.scribd.com/document/4287655 ... ber-3-2019

Here is a link to the "interview" by Volker....

It never said anything about a quid pro quo.

But it does bring to light Rudy's investigation. It doesn't show it in a negative way.... but also doesn't show it in a "positive" or "exonerating" light either. It just shows Rudy was investigating and not getting the best of info. IMHO.

This is actually more of a WIN for Biden. Than anything. :beer:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

A few things are troubling on this issue.

1. Why isn't Schiff being transparent with stuff?
- Isn't letting Republicans question witnesses
- Isn't letting out the transcripts of said testimony.

2. Schiff's lying
- The whole fiasco of his "parody" of the transcript. That has no place in this serious claim and investigation.
- His lying about his office or him not having any contact with a whistleblower. If he would have come out and said he directed them to the proper channels right away. Also released or talked about what he knew or heard right away from the whistleblower with other House members... ie: judiciary committee. SO they could investigate. Not an issue. But keeping it in his back pocket. Looks dishonest.

3. Trump and other WH officials stone walling.
- They should testify. I understand why they are not because of the BS Schiff is pulling by not allowing Rep. to question witnesses. But it looks like they are trying to be shifty and not forth right in this process. Kind of petty if you ask me.

4. Media Bias...
- More and more people should see how this is. It is sad.

Remember Nazi germany&#8230;. Hitler controlled the news. You cant tell me that Trump is controlling the news... oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.foxnews.com/media/john-solo ... l-timeline

This is an interesting turn of events.

Basically the article states that the Ukraine was "re-opening" an investigation into the firm that Hunter Biden was apart of because of some transactions that didn't look "correct". This was back in Feb. So way before the phone call ever happened.

I am sure this will raise many questions that needs answers. But it is really discrediting the WB complaint if all of this is true.

I honestly think that some Dem's are now knowing that the WB complaint isn't holding water but yet they want to push on and have Trump do something that qualifies as OBSTRUCTION. :bop:

That is why I mentioned before that I don't like the fact that Trump is stonewalling. But I understand why he is stonewalling. The main reason is because Republicans are not being allowed to cross examine or questioning on this matter it is all one sided.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

The Plot thickens.....

This article states that two people who have helped Rudy with his independent investigation into Biden have been arrested on campaign finance issues. The article doesn't state what those issues were.

So when the one person (cant remember who) said that Rudy was getting bad info.... I wonder if these are the two giving the bad info. :bop:

I have been saying all along that if Biden is clear.... GOOD! But for what they want to impeach Trump for is less than what Biden did when he actually threatened to with hold aid. Trump never threatened that. :thumb: So if Biden is cleared of any wrong doing..... so should Trump. :beer:


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

KEN W said:


> OK.....lets let foreign governments influence out election process. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


So it's OK for the Dems to do it but not the Republicans?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Two associates of President Trump's personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani have been arrested on charges they schemed to funnel foreign money to U.S. politicians while trying to affect U.S.-Ukraine relations, according to a newly unsealed indictment. Aressted trying to leave the country. Tip of the iceberg. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I read that too.... the article is in the link above. Well a snippet of an article... LOL

But I remember a Ukraine official was saying Rudy was getting bad info and it isn't to be trusted.... HMMMM... was it these two guys.

It will be interesting what is found out on this one. Could be linked to Trump/Biden fiasco... or could be something different.

But I will guarantee that this will be a new screaming point by CNN. Is it warranted... yes.... is it anything to do with Biden investigation that is the reason for the "impeachment".... we don't know yet. Time will tell.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Chuck Smith said:


> I read that too.... the article is in the link above. Well a snippet of an article... LOL
> 
> But I remember a Ukraine official was saying Rudy was getting bad info and it isn't to be trusted.... HMMMM... was it these two guys.
> 
> ...


Arrested not found guilty, at least by sane people. If your going to jump to conclusions let me pontificate too. My guess based on watching the democrat party for many years is that the democrats don't care if he is guilty or innocent, they just want to create another false narrative to throw people off their dirty trail. They trash Barr because he is on their trail and they are going bat crap crazy with the fear that when America catches on they will loose everything in 2020.

Trump was not involved with another country to mess with our election, but Hillary was. The democrats constantly accuse the republicans of what they are doing. No one is as stupid as these democrats appear. They want to destroy America as we know it and turn it into a democrat run socialist nation. They are so arrogant they look at the failure in nation after nation and think they only fail because they didn't run those countries. Their appeal is to the lazy.

Did anyone else notice after the Trump rally last night in Minnesota that it was those tolerant peace loving liberals that were the root of the violence? Same ol same ol. They don't trust Americans with guns because when they look inward all they see is their own black violent heart. Their concern for others is as fake as CNN news.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... als-reveal

This is an article about how the WB worked with/for Biden. It is from the Washington examiner so you need to take it with a grain of salt... but just like an article from CNN... it will be slanted. oke:

So it shows that the bias that the IG mentioned in his reporting was true. Again that is if all of this is true or not. Remember the WB should still be unknown... oke:

Plainsman... I noticed the "peaceful" left last night as well. Burning MAGA gear in the streets... Chanting "WTF" and giving the Middle finger to the Target Center... Screaming at the police on horseback saying.... "get out of here you F...ing pigs".... Screaming at the police on horseback who were putting out the fires "animal abuse"...

I am all for protesting something you don't agree with. I am all for debate, logic, or just expressing your view points on a topic. But this stuff is just plain stupid and doesn't make your point valid in my mind. Just like if a white supremist has actual valid points... they are discredited by being a white supremist. It is the same thing in my book.

Now I am going to rip Trump on this one... He should have never said what he did about Biden... "Joe was only good at kissing Obama's.... (rear end)". This is turning our political process and election process into a side show. He should be talking about how the Democratic lead house is sitting on.... The USMCA trade deal.... A Lowering the cost of perscription Drug bill... how they are doing nothing at the border...(they are pretty silent on this issue). These are the things he should be hammering home... plus his jobs and unemployment numbers. Because those three things I mentioned will help EVERYONE... they are not one sided. Well except illegals wanting to enter the USA... ILLEGALLY. He should be talking about his Job numbers, economic numbers, unemployment numbers, trade deals with Japan, UK, working on china, etc. But we all know he would rather do the egotistical thing and down grade his competition. He needs to stroke his ego... :eyeroll:

I know Ken you will bring up the DO NOTHING congress when Obama was in office. But most of those bills were one sided. The three I mentioned will help all not just Trump voters.... most of Obama's bills were not this way. They helped a smaller chunk of the country. These bills I talked about will help all with costs, jobs, money flow, products coming in and out of the country. But instead the House Dem's are having 2-3 impeachment inquiries.... (Nadler, Schiff and I think another one)&#8230; I mean why cant they just hand off the stuff from Schiff to Nadler???


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I have to agree with Chuck .. I think Trump could be doing more productive things than tweeting. As far as I'm concerned your only audience there is twits anyway. Some of this stuff is truly " High School".... He has the capability to do good work and is wasting his time with childish crap...&#8230;.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://thegreggjarrett.com/clapper-*** ... complaint/

This is another little "article".... again not sure if true or not. But it's source slants a hard right.

But in this article states that an associate of Clapper's help with the WB complaint... ie: an attorney helped write it.

Just some things to monitor on this whole situation. Could be false but hopefully we will find out.

Remember the IG came out and stated that the WB had significant bias.... but the complaint was also credible. Which the way I read what the IG stated is..... The complaint was written in a biased way but is something we need to look into or keep an eye on. Which it seems they have. :thumb:

I honestly think that the WB probably saved Trump from doing something stupid... oke: :bop: It came out early enough before he actually did say or do something like a quid pro quo situation.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://thehill.com/latino/465380-mexic ... l-approved

This is an article where the Mexican president is urging the USA to pass the trade deal.... :bop:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

So what else is new......Trump distancing himself from his personal lawyer.....Only a matter of time before he says...."Who's he"

When will people that he calls all kind of names reciprocate?

Someone needs to say....Donald Duck Trump the clown with the big red nose...."what goes around, comes around."


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken.... I agree and glad his the Dem's are not calling him names. They are not falling to his level of BS or childishness. :bop:

I just read that Trump got a tentative deal done with China.... the US wont increase tariffs on 250 billion worth of goods as long as Chine buys $40-$50 billion in farm products.

Now I don't know if I would tall this a "win"... but it is good. Not sure if anything in this bill will help with the stealing of info and what not....which is what many are worried about with china. Like them taking patents and other stuff.

But we will see and need to know more deals about this thing with China. But it is a start.... now hopefully it doesn't need to go to a vote otherwise it wont happen... oke:

Also more and more I read about this Ukraine thing is sounds like Rudy went off on a tangent. I agree with you ken... will trump say he doesn't know Rudy or will either of them have a paper trail showing the other knows or doesn't know what Rudy was doing. That will be the kicker....ie: was Rudy acting as "independent" or was he directed by Trump or other US officials.

The two people arrested are linked to a guy in Texas. A republican congressman... nothing towards trump... yet. So time will tell. But again it is campaign finance stuff. Which others have accepted money from foreign people in the past as well. So time will tell what comes of this stuff.

To be honest.... is some of this falling in line with what Barr is doing??? Lots on both sides could be feeling the wrath of AG Barr and his investigation. :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Ken.... I agree and glad his the Dem's are not calling him names. They are not falling to his level of BS or childishness. :bop:


 Your right, but they have done far worse. I forget the black ladies name (kalifornia rep) who called for Trump to be pit in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. Another called for him to be hanged. Another accused him of treason which carries the death sentence. And on and on and on.

Edit: Maxine Waters was the lady who wanted Trump in solitary for life.

It was interesting last night when Trump said the first call for impeachment came 19 minutes after he was sworn in.

I guess I'll put up with Trump calling names before democrats wanting impeachment on made up charges. One has to ask which is worse calling names or destroying a person. Remember Kavanaugh? As for Trumps tweets, would anyone know the truth if he didn't tweet? I don't think so. The corruption of our media reaches right down into our local evening news. If people don't read Trumps tweets or listen to FOX news they have no idea what's going on.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Homeland Security chief resigns......that's 18 cabinet levels members to resign since Trump took office. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/14/de ... eposition/

This article states how Schiff kicked out Matt Gaetz out of the closed door hearing.

This should bother anyone. Because this isn't trying to figure out together if the president should be impeached. This is one side trying to sway public opinion. It is totally a political stunt and not what congress should be doing. :bop:

If the evidence is there they should be sharing it with everyone. Not leaking tidbits. This all shady BS going on.

Remember this isn't a FORMAL impeachment proceeding.



> Schiff has also raised the ire of transparency and open government advocates by selectively leaking incomplete and out-of-context information against Trump while stubbornly refusing to release full transcripts of his depositions of federal officials subpoenaed by his committee.


This whole process isn't making a good case for Impeachment.... it is showing more and more how Trump is correct for calling these things "Witch Hunts".


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://trendingpolitics.com/boom-rand- ... um=twitter

This article talks about how Rep. Paul Rand is calling out or asking for a probe into some Dem. Senators who sent a direct letter to the Ukraine stating that aid to the Ukraine is in jeporady if the Ukraine doesn't keep investigating Trump.... So a quid pro quo situation.

Again if Trump is guilty these Senators and VP Biden should all be guilty as well. :bop:

You see this is what stinks with this whole thing. If Schiff and others were investigating this as well. Then this whole thing has merit. But they are not...they are all one sided. Which look horrible and show more and more that it is a "witch hunt" type situation. Plus all the old clips of Dem. congress people stating since day one of the Trump presidency that they will find a way to impeach him. :eyeroll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Giuliani now the "Hand Grenade ready to blow up." :bop: :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I am thinking it is more about Gulliani's investigation than anything right now.

Which could be an issue. But things to consider...

1. Was it in the normal scope of him defending his client against the Mueller probe?
- Getting info to counter said claims and allegations.

2. Was it an "independent" investigation or was it directed by Government officials... ie: Trump or white house staff.
- This is the thing that could get Rudy in trouble.

Now again... if his "investigations" or contacts with Ukraine were only to defend his client. Then that shouldn't be anything against Trump. But if he was only looking for "dirt" on Biden.... this could become an issue. :bop:

But to be honest it more looks bad for Rudy than anyone. But time will tell.

The whole issue is that we are only hearing one side of this whole thing. Or snippets of what one side wants people to hear. We are not hearing anything from Republicans because they are not allowed into these settings for this whole procedure. That is what is getting me. We wont have answers to the stuff I mentioned because Schiff wont allow it. :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is what I keep reading....

They are trying to tie Millitary AIDE being withheld to investigating Biden....

Well multiple things have come out saying this wasn't the case. 
1. The transcript (no direct link to aide and investigation)&#8230; there was talk about many investigations or things Trump wanted investigated. But never a "you investigate or else no aide".... type situation.

2. The Ukraine President never said that this type of thing happened.

3. Ukraine never knew that the aide was being withheld.

4. Two people testified before the Dem's kicked people out that a "quid pro quo" never happened.

So there are 4 things shooting down the whole Aide/investigation issue.

But there is stuff out there with Biden saying directly Aide will be withheld unless you fire this person. There is a letter out there from 4 Dem congress people stating "if you don't investigate Trump it will jepordize aid".... :bop:

So where or what are they looking into now? That is why it shouldn't be behind closed doors.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Ken.... I agree and glad his the Dem's are not calling him names. They are not falling to his level of BS or childishness.


This is timely. Have any of you seen the video out yet where they put Trumps face on the bad guy who is killing everyone in a church. Not one of the democrat politicians, but it is the mindset of liberals today. Also lets not forget they called us deplorables.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman....

I think some right wing meme site made that video since trump is taking on "fake news".

Now to the bigger issue....

Pelosi came out last night and stated they will not hold a vote on impeachment.... So why is this inquiry still going on?? Why is Nadler, Schiff, etc not letting in Republicans on what is going on? How come they are not letting a fair investigation on this?

Like I have mentioned.... If they truly want impeachment and that Trump is doing crimes. They need to convince the Senate and other House Republicans. Don't you think if you have evidence or want to sway people you would let them in on what is going on? What are the findings? I mean people have questions that need answers on the Republican side.... yet they wont let those Republicans ask those questions. it is one sided.

I hate to say it.... I think this might just fade away like so many of the other accusations that have been thrown at Trump. I think what derailed all of this is that they moved forward or called for the inquiry before they had any facts. They went off of what Schiff was saying and then when it is coming out that Schiff or his staff was in contact with the Whistle Blower and that the Whistle Blower once worked with Biden.... it all started to unravel.

This is the problem with our society... we rush or want instant things to happen. When we all need to let things play out and facts to come out. We don't need to rush to judgement. This comment isn't a Republican vs Democrats.... it is just how our society is. :eyeroll:

I honestly think now they will go after him with his Tax stuff. I know that is an early prediction.... but just wait. oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/gregg-j ... witch-hunt

This is an opinion piece from Fox News.... So take it with a grain of salt.

But if some of the things talked about in this piece are true. Then we have a lot to be upset about this whole thing.

In this piece it mentions (but isn't confirmed TRUE)&#8230; That some of the "witnesses" were told they don't need lawyers or were denied lawyers being present during this process. It this comes out as being true this should upset everyone. They are throwing out the fundamentals of our laws and process. They are reverting back to things many have fought for civil rights and liberties.



> Witnesses have been threatened with obstruction of justice if they refuse to appear in these secret proceedings. Some have reportedly been told that legal counsel is not allowed. As Democrats selectively leak damaging information, Republicans are prohibited from rebutting it. The minority party is also deprived of subpoena power and forbidden from calling witnesses of its own. This is an abuse of the process and an egregious deprivation of rights.


This is what is most concerning. It should concern everyone.

Now I shouldn't be surprised by any of this after seeing what happened during the whole Kavanaugh fiasco. But it is scary what is happening.

But again this is from an opinion piece and if true....it should upset anyone no matter what side of the political spectrum you consider yourself.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Today, I was denied access to read the testimony of Kurt Volker in the SCIF. As a member of Congress, I demand access to review documentation that is vital to the process of impeachment. The secret hearings of Adam Schiff are unacceptable and a stain on our democracy.


This was a direct tweet from:

Rep. Doug Lamborn‏

This is what I am talking about that should upset people. This Representative isn't even being allowed to read the testimony!!

This Representative would be called onto vote in these proceedings but yet cant read evidence. :eyeroll:

This stuff is classified so it shouldn't be getting "leaked" and should be held quiet.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

the dems are impeaching in secret..... uke: 
No due process regards....


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Barr should prosecute the leaker. Of course they leak lies more than likely. Then without due process and everything secret they will want to impeach Trump. They will tell the American people "trust us it's all true". No one in the Democrat party and only 30% of the republicans can be believed. Maybe I was over optimistic about the republicans. Let's make it 20%. Every single candidate on stage last night lied.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

This is why they are doing it in secrecy.... so they can "leak" out info as they see fit. YET I have read on multiple sources that what this article doesn't tell the full truth of what Mulvaney stated.

He and Sondland stated over and over.... no quid pro quo into investigating Biden.

Mulvaney came out and said that the aid was being withheld "INPART" to the corruption going on in Ukraine and wanted to make sure the new president was going to follow thru on his word. It also had to do with the 2016 election and scandal. The stuff BARR is looking into as we speak. So nothing about going after BIDEN.... all about the bs in 2016!! So this article is so slanted and probably written my Schiff himself... oke:

I personally think that this whole issue with Ukraine has to do with what else was found during the Mueller probe. Remember much of what Mueller testified to was "not in the scope of my investigation" when he was asked cross examination questions. So now the 2016 DNC servers, emails, crowdstrike, etc. Is coming to light. The chickens are coming home to roost so to speak on this one.

Remember when I stated how far down the rabbit hole do we want to travel..... well we are traveling down it. We don't know if people will be cleared or if it will look exactly like what Trump did as well. Just a bunch of grey area BS. But we need to see what the Barr report will show coming out soon. I know they are now in the talks about what will be redacted and what will be made public.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/state- ... as-ignored

This is an article stating that people brought up concerns with Biden back in 2015 with his dealings in the Ukraine.

If he was cleared.... good. But it seems it wasn't even looked at.

Again if one is guilty the other needs to be too.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Since the house voted on party lines on the censure of Schiff. I personally think it was a bad move by the Dem's not to do it.

Here is my reasoning.

1. It gives Trump a huge case for throwing out this whole thing. Because he had contact with the whistleblower before hand.

This could be interpreted as witness tampering to an extent. Police get cases thrown out because of said stuff.

2. It doesn't help that Schiff for 3 years has been screaming.... Trump is guilty and I have evidence... then the evidence never shows up. So that shows bias.

3. He is not allowing access to non classified info to Republicans.... so again... what is going on? He is blocking members of congress from information they are rightfully to view.

So again... all of this gives Trumps legal team some stuff to use in an impeachment fight. Even if they find evidence or a reason to impeach Trump... this gives Trumps team some legal recourse. There are criminals who get off scott free because of the things I mentioned.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If Trump was guilty this would be sort of a catch 22. The dems would be breaking the law to enforce the law. However, there is no evidence so the only guilty party is the democrat party. What are they going to do impeach him with no evidence, then lie to us and say their was evidence while never presenting the evidence. Kangaroo court anyone?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

What I cant stand about this hole ordeal is the media on it.

Every article, leaked testimony, etc.... all state the same thing.... Trump asking Ukraine to investigate Biden and son.... then they wait a few sentences and then say.... Crowdstrike, DNC servers, election interference in 2016 by Ukraine, etc. They always lead with Biden. Then the other stuff is a "second" thought. Which it shows he wasn't just targeting Biden or his son. He was looking at corruption in a "whole". Like I have mentioned he is trying to dig up the other side of the coin that was found during the Mueller Probe. Remember when Mueller testified when questioned about this stuff... he said something like "this wasn't in the scope of my investigation". Which means he didn't look into it.

Also with all the "leaked" stuff it is all one sided. Then I have read on twitter from the Republicans who are in there listening to the interviews and testimony. They say all of the leaked stuff is rebuked because when asked if it was only Biden Trump was focused on... they say NO. It is the other stuff and again wasn't a "QUID PRO QUO" type situation.

Hence why Schiff wants to keep everything in the dark and let the media run with false narratives. :bop:

Again I am only going off of what I see on twitter and read in the news. We as a society don't know what actually is going on since it is being done so in a shady light. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I personally think that the Republicans "storming" the room today was complete political BS.... and a dog and pony show.

I personally wished they would keep up with the press confrences and also bringing up bills or motions to censor Schiff. But the "storming" is just like the political stunts I called the Dem's out on doing... ie: walk outs, not showing up to Trump speeches and what not. Just BS and theatrics.

I wish they would just keep bring up bills, motions, etc. Keep putting out tweets, press releases, etc about how the USMCA is not getting a vote. Stuff like that.... that shows you are still working for the people. Here is more or less political theatre and BS if you ask me.

But I know others will disagree. oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://hannity.com/media-room/kevin-mc ... 0-seconds/

Read this article.

Again it is from Hannity. But read it.

I am not going to talk about how the Mc Carthy is saying they squashed the claims....

I am going to talk about how it upsets me with the procedure....

The GOP are not talking about what is going on behind closed doors because they were told not to by the committee leader... SCHIFF.... yet Pelosi is leaking or putting out a "fact sheet". How is this not a biased investigation? If one party cant talk about it yet the other can "leak" or put out fact sheets. How can one political party see the transcripts but yet the other cant?

This should bother anyone on all sides of the political spectrum. Imagine if the shoe was on the other foot? Is it fair? Is it right? Is it due process? Is it more of a communistic type of run government? Who is trying to control information?

Like I mentioned... this is what is bothering me the most. I am not coming to the defense of trump at all on this. This is just procedure BS. This isn't what the USA is about.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

This is what I expect in a dictator type of communist government procedure. Why we don't hear more complaints in the media is certainly another indication they are complicit. What a one side railroad job.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

You obviously don't remember the Benghazi hearings.....REPUBLICANS did the EXACT same thing. I guess memory at our age is selective. :withstupid:

About this storming the hearing.....There are 18 Republicans SITTING in there on this committee. They Don't seem to have a problem with the closed hearings. This was just a stunt pulled by the far right Representatives. They should climb down off that high horse of indignity. Total Bull S. uke:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

The clown is in over his head......The mentality of a 6 year old.

During a speech on American energy in Pittsburgh on Wednesday, President Donald Trump ticked through his usual issues before making an unusual remark about his long-promised border wall.

"We're building a wall on the border of New Mexico. And we're building a wall in Colorado," Trump said.
Colorado, located directly north of New Mexico, is not on the US-Mexico border.
Trump went on to say the wall would be "a big one that really works -- you can't get over, you can't get under."
"We're building a wall in Texas," he said. "And we're not building a wall in Kansas, but they get the benefit of the walls that we just mentioned."
Democratic Colorado Gov. Jared Polis tweaked Trump over the remarks on Twitter.
"Well this is awkward ...Colorado doesn't border Mexico," Polis wrote. "Good thing Colorado now offers free full day kindergarten so our kids can learn basic geography."


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken....

It is just like the potato gaff by Quayle. Now Saturday night live will have some good ammo. Which they should after this one. :beer:

Now on the closed door. What some of those republicans sitting in are having issue with is the "leaking". Because all you hear about is the "opening" statements. But you never hear about the questions after that cut down the opening statements. In a trial you don't just base your judgement off of opening statements. oke:

that is the issue many are having. The republicans are not "leaking" anything. They come out and say after the opening statement is leaked....."after further questioning the opening statement has been rebuked". So basically showing how it is very biased with some of these witnesses opening statements.

So that is the issue on why cant more people see what is going on. When in fact that these House members (ALL OF THEM) have a right to access these transcripts. It is in the House rules hand book. I saw a clip of where Rep. Crenshaw showed the handbook and the part that states that. That is the issue I have. The people don't need to be in the room. But allow them access after the interview is done. These people are the ones who will be voting to impeach or not. If a political party doesn't want it to be one sided or look like it is a "witch hunt".... they should open it up more. Because to many regular citizens it is playing right into Trumps rhetoric of "WITCH HUNT".... so those swing voters are leaning right during this whole process. :bop:

But I agree that it was a total political stunt by the Reps and wasn't called for. They should have just kept pressing about the bills waiting for a vote.... USMCA, the Debbie smith act (some dem's added poison pills to this :eyeroll: ), a prescription drug bill that was bipartisan (Pelosi pushing hers which has come out wont be as good as the one sitting), anything on immigration (they forgot about these people), etc. The Reps should be pushing these things and showing they are working for the people... don't just doing a political stunt for the president. :thumb:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The democrats took this impeachment dog and pony show to the intelligence committee so they could justify secrecy. I guess they don't have the brains to know it's the judiciary that is supposed to handle impeachment, but then they couldn't have secrets from the American people.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

When Republicans were in control of the House they had the Benghazi hearings. They also had a Obama IRS investigation. Guess what.....they were secret behind closed doors. Hypocrites all of them. What goes around comes around. uke: uke:

Why aren't the 18 house members that are on this committee saying anything????

There are 106 members of the House Intelligence, Oversight, and Foreign Affairs Committees. 48 of them are Republicans. All those Republicans and their staff are entitled to be there. Even some of those clowns who stormed the hearing can be there. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Once again the Clown Prince calling people names. Now Republicans who opposes him are "Human Scum."

Someone needs to return the favor. uke: uke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

He is keeping those committees out as well. That is one of the issues.

Then like I mentioned about the ones inside. They are all complaining about how only bits and pieces are getting leaked.... guess what... not by them :bop:

So if Dem's are not ad hearing by the rules why not just open it up.... that is the complaint.

Plus the two hearings you talked about were not IMPEACHMENT. They were like the mueller investigation. Who was screaming for that to be more open.... the Dem's.

Also this comes around goes around childish BS is what is wrong with our political system. YES I am calling out republicans too on this....ie: the stunt that happened yesterday is one of them. Trumps childish name calling of other canidates. All of that crap needs to stop and civility needs to get back into Washington. The president isn't helping that cause. But neither is a 3 year push to trying and oust him as well. It is playing right into his WITCH HUNT claims. Think of what could have been accomplished if he wasn't stonewalled.

Like I have mentioned there are bills waiting to get voted on in the House but Pelosi wont do it because they have support by the president. There are also bills in the Senate that are not getting voted on because they don't have support by the president. The senate should be working to adjust those bills but yet aren't doing a thing. The reason why... they have to play political BS and looking into stupid impeachment crap and mueller crap for over 2 years going on 3. uke:

Yet the president has gotten jobs increase, economy rolling, trade deals done (USMCA, JAPAN, UK, and working on china)


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

In both the Nixon and Clinton hearings....closed door meetings WERE held. When were these rules recently changed????

2015......Who signed them?????John Boehner

Who enacted them???? A REPUBLICAN House majority.

Be careful what you wish for......it will come back and bite you in the butt. :bop: :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Breaking news tonight. Durham investigation has turned into a criminal investigation. The Democrat dog and pony show pseudo impeachment couldn't sidetrack the investigation that will rip the FBI , CIA, and some democrats. It's time these bottom feeders pay the piper.

Reports say some CIA people are already lawyering up.

Also of interest, some of the big Democrat donors are grumbling and asking "isnt there someone else". They know many are to far left to win, Biden is under the microscope, Hillary is political suicide etc etc. They have no one. No one that hasn't made a fool of themselves. Maybe Omar? :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

What I have read is that Page and Storzk falsified Flynns 302's. :eyeroll:

So now if this is true. Anything Flynn said or was pressured into saying apart of his Plea is going to get thrown out. Flynn needs to have everything dropped. :bop:

We still don't know if anything else is coming to light.

But is this some of the stuff that Barr is finding with the help of the Ukraine??? If so then all of this Trump BS needs to be dropped because just like the transcript stated.... Trump asked him to look into many things or help with looking into many things... NOT JUST THE BIDEN's.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Struzk's *** went into the fry pan today. The democrats whine about Trump checking out Biden because he is running for president. Maybe Hillary thinks that will get her out of the roasting pit.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Loved the World Series game in Wash DC last night. Trump in attendance.

Chanting....."Lock Him Up" over and over. :beer: :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Loved the World Series game in Wash DC last night. Trump in attendance.
> 
> Chanting....."Lock Him Up" over and over. :beer: :beer:


That's no surprise it's the city of the swamp. It's not the armpit of America it's -------- well Trump described some countries that way. Look at the bright side Obama tried to make us one of those countries. Obama's failure was America's win.

Edit: FOX--- "The swamp boos America"

2016 90% for Hillary, 4% for Trump. People on FOX think it will make a great ad for 2020. :rollin: The swamp vs the deplorable. Oops I forgot, some say the libs don't call names.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

And the Clown Prince has done nothing to empty it except REPUBLICANS not running for reelection.......Yup that's draining the swamp.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I noticed in Chicago today the national police chiefs introduced Trump as the greatest supporter they have ever had. Right now on FOX a law police superintendent says Obama was their greatest opponent. Liberals pretend to support police and military, but they hate both.

Trump pointed out that with Democrat leaders and the strongest gun laws in the nation Afgahnistan is safer than Chicago. Not a joke, it's true.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Headlines of the liberal Trump hating news:



> Washington Post Criticized for Obit Headline Calling ISIS Leader 'Austere Religious Scholar'


Not a terrorist, but an Austere Religiouse Scholar.

Also the democrats are angry they were not notified. Trump said he didn't because Shift is a leaker. I sure would not have trusted the democrats with that information. They prefer an ISIS leader to Trump.

This Trump Derangement Syndrome reminds me of Romans 1:28


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So now Schiff wont allow witnesses to answer questions asked by the Republican's allowed in the room.... :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Does this "impeachment" investigation even sound fair???

Remember this isn't a trial it is fact finding to see if impeachment should proceed. So all questions should be answered. Why is the Dem lead on this not allowing more info to be found out and keeping it "one sided". We need to know the truth. :bop:

So does this tell you at all if people are looking for the truth or are they trying to push narrative during an election/campaign year..... oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

Here is the issue that is coming up. Everyone is corroborating other peoples testimony. What the media and many democrats are failing to see is that things are linked to 2016 election interference. Which Biden is or suspected to be apart of. It has nothing to do with this up coming election. It is all about past corruption.



> Morrison told impeachment investigators that the account offered by William B. Taylor Jr., the acting ambassador to Ukraine, is accurate. He said that he alerted Taylor to a push by Trump and his deputies to withhold both security aid and a White House visit for the Ukrainian president until Ukraine agreed to* investigate the Bidens and interference in the 2016 presidential election*, said one person, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive discussions.





> Morrison also told lawmakers that he spoke with Taylor again on Sept. 7 to share a "sinking feeling" about a worrisome conversation between Trump and Sondland, the person said. Morrison said that, during that conversation, *Trump said he wasn't seeking a "quid pro quo" but went on to insist that Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelensky had to publicly announce that he was opening investigations of Biden and 2016 election interference*.


So again... no quid pro quo. Just that he wanted to look into corruption and 2016 election interference. Is this criminal or an impeachable offense??? :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The whistblower doesnt have ANY first hand information. He heard it from a guy who knows a guy who taked to a guy that heard it from a guy. I think there was two guys, who made up the story. and that's Brennan and Schiff.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.realclearinvestigations.com ... 20996.html

Don't know if this is true at all. But if it is or this person is the "Whistle Blower" it shows extreme bias. Maybe that is why the BS resolution was brought up and anything that the Republicans wanted (same stuff that was in the Nixon and Clinton impeachment hearings) was denied.



> Federal documents reveal that the 33-year-old Ciaramella, a registered Democrat held over from the Obama White House, previously worked with former Vice President Joe Biden and former CIA Director John Brennan, a vocal critic of Trump who helped initiate the Russia "collusion" investigation of the Trump campaign during the 2016 election.Further, Ciaramella (pronounced char-a-MEL-ah) left his National Security Council posting in the White House's West Wing in mid-2017 amid concerns about negative leaks to the media. He has since returned to CIA headquarters in Langley, Virginia.
> 
> "He was accused of working against Trump and leaking against Trump," said a former NSC official, speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.
> 
> ...


Again don't know if the above from the article is true. But if it is..... the impeachment inquiry should be stopped immediately or another one should be opened up into Obama. Because this guy was apart of the exact same thing they are accusing Trump of doing. So if one is impeachable... .so is the other one. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

This is some "testimony" that you will not hear on the main stream media or any democrats talk about.

This is one of the "star" witnesses in Schiff's basement hearings.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

More things you wont see in the media.....

This is from the "revised" testimony and the "I presumed" or "assumed"....


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Another thing you wont see on media.....

Ambassador Taylor saying that they didn't know aid was being with held....


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/06/te ... hone-call/

Now this is from the federalist.... so again take with a grain of salt. But it says that Ambassador Taylor was never on the phone call, never talked with Trump, never talked with Rudy, or Mulvaney..... So how can he be a "star" witness????

How does he even know what intentions the president had or Rudy.... Again this isn't stuff you will see on the main stream media. Or you wont see the "release" of these transcripts of his testimony behind closed doors.

It is looking more and more and more like this is even a bigger pile of BS... but again you wont see this on any major news networks. oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

This is from the head of the Ukranian Envoy.... Mr. Volkmer&#8230;.

Will CNN, MSNBC talk about this???


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

And Finally.....

The attorney of the Whistle Blower in old tweets stated that "we will get rid of him"... referencing Trump.

Again this is an old tweet but does show bias in this whole ordeal. Something to look at when making a decision. Since we don't have direct facts linking to anything as of yet. Just people's opinions that things were "linked". But the transcript and all say otherwise. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

This is an article by the associated press....

Saying that a man that had no contact with Trump, Rudy, wasn't even in on the phone call, etc said it was direct quid pro quo.... :eyeroll:

The last sentence talks about how Trump wanted the Ukraine to come out and say they are going to investigate CORRUPTION... not just Bidens&#8230; but all corruption. So that is impeachable????



> Gordon Sondland, Trump's ambassador to the European Union, said in an addendum to his testimony released Tuesday that military assistance to the East European ally was being withheld until Ukraine's new president agreed to release a statement about fighting corruption as Trump wanted.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The democrats are having a tantrum because Trump because Trump because Trump replaced the ambassadors to the Ukrain. Ambassadors are presidential appointees. I would have thought Obama's appointees would have been gone in the first two or three months. The democrats jus make crap up in hopes they can convince the ignorant. Unfortunately the majority of Americans are politically ignorant. Our schools have made that an objective.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Even more is coming out about the "star" witness that is Ambassador Taylor....

1. Never was on the call
2. Never talked with Trump
3. Never talked to Rudy
4. Never talked to Mulvaney
5. Never was briefed on the transcript until it was RELEASED!!!

So everything is just an assumption by him. What do they say about people who assume.... it makes an "*** out of U and ME".

So when he testifies in public next week. It will be interesting how Schiff will shut down questions from Republicans.... since he has that power. It will show Schiffs bias to the public if he shuts down questioning.

Also read today.... that Schiff forgot to edit out the Whistle Blowers name in something that was released. I haven't read what was release.... just that Schiff didn't edit it. So who is "outing" the Whistle Blower??? If this is true... should Schiff get in trouble??? If this is true... can the Republicans now ask about him in questioning other witnesses? Can the Whistleblower become a public witness since his name is out... and not at the hands of the Republicans???

This could be interesting how it all plays out.... and not about trump. Because if Schiff denies all of this. It will show bias and no due process even more so than now. Especially if the Whistle Blower testifies... and when asked under oath about contacts with Schiff or his team.... and Schiff blocks those questions. That should throw out all legitimacy of this impeachment. But if Schiff allows the questioning.... good for him. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So now you know why they wanted everything behind closed doors..... and not let the Republicans cross examine them or question the witnesses...

everything is second hand with the "star witnesses.... :eyeroll:

Also this is why Schiff was only leaking parts of testimony.... like opening statements. Most opening statements get derailed in trial. Or they get debunked when the person is innocent. If they are guilty the stuff I am posting would not be showing up. He would be having articles of impeachment already drawn up on the president. So this shows you even more so how this needs to stop and is all for political gain or shows the fact that the Dem's don't have a strong person to run against trump. oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

And another one.... Not first hand, not second hand, not third hand.... fourth hand knowledge.... :beer:

Do they want me to testify??? I have about the same knowledge as them.... oke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I hate to use a cliche, but this is going to be another nothing burger. What is that now about the 20th nothing burger, and still those who religiously worship the left will jump right on the next "we got him now" bs train. There are suckers, and then there are total suckers.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The plot thickens....

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/marie- ... cate-issue

Yovanovitch (another "star witness") lied about having contact with a Dem staffer before the WB complaint was filed. So did she or the "staffer" use this communication to push the WB complaint?



> "I would highly suspect that this Democratic staffer's work was connected in some way to the whistleblower's effort, which has evolved into this impeachment charade," Zeldin said. "We do know that the whistleblower was in contact with [House Intelligence Committee Chairman] Adam Schiff's team before the whistleblower had even hired an attorney or filed a whistleblower complaint even though Schiff had lied to the public originally claiming that there was no contact. Additionally, while the contents of the email from this staffer to Ambassador Yovanovitch clearly state what the conversation would be regarding, Yovanovitch, when I asked her specifically what the staffer was looking to speak about, did not provide these details."
> 
> Zeldin added: "I specifically asked her whether the Democratic staffer was responded to by Yovanovitch or the State Department. It is greatly concerning that Ambassador Yovanovitch didn't answer my question as honestly as she should have, especially while under oath."


So more questions need to be answered by everyone... did these "staffers" and who they are and who directed them.... push this whole Whistle Blower thing out into the fore front???

Is this the Dossier all over again??? False info to push a narrative??? :bop: :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Even more on the "first hand" or lack there of.... from a "star witness"....

Remember the "Bombshells" by CNN, MSNBC, etc.....

The "knowledge" came from a news paper article. oke: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

These are Schiff's guidelines for witness's or to keep the focus "narrow". Which is fine if you ask me...

But.... How can the "star" witnesses for the Dem's answer these questions when they don't have first hand knowledge??? When they have never spoken to the president, his lawyer, Mulvaney, or was on the phone call????


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So does this sound like "DUE PROCESS".....

Today Schiff gave the Republicans on the investigation until tomorrow to give him a list of witnesses they want. So they have 1 day!!!! Yes one day to produce a list of people to testify. Then Schiff can say yes or now to that list.

WOW.... this isn't due process at all.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Sounds a lot like the Senate run by McConnel. My rules or the highway. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The big issue I have is the whole due process of this.

Remember the constitution and the 6th amendment. oke:

But to be honest. I am glad they are keeping the WB so far out of any official hearings. But if impeachment goes forward....ie: articles are drawn up. Then they will have to come to the party and testify in public. Also I am glad they looked into this...but it has gone too far. Right now it is a total fishing expedition. Plus you throw in the past 3 years of the Mueller investigation, the Mueller Testifying, etc. This looks even worse.

But it is a check and balance. The problem is that if Trump does finally do something worthy of a charge (so far there hasn't been one or he would have had articles brought up against him)&#8230;. will people even listen? You cant keep crying wolf. Also if he gets re-elected.... If another 4 years of this happens. It will be the death of the Democratic Party and our nation. :******:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

They have nothing just like the last 20 times. I doubt they want to complete this impeachment. They will stop short, but continue to lie and tell people they have all this evidence. The media will carry their water, and the gullible and extreme partisan will suck it up and vote for them. That's what they are counting on.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I don't see how a second or even third party can be a "Whistleblower" a court of law calls that heresay and it is generally not admisible.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

But that's perfectly normal in a kangaroo court.....


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Just read on Twitter....

So take it with a grain of salt if it is true or not...

But every single GOP witness they asked to have testify was denied by Schiff!!!

Is this due process???

Here the list (that I saw again on twitter)&#8230;.

-Devon Archer
-Hunter Biden
-Alexandra Chalupa
-David Hale
-Tim Morrison
-Nellie Ohr
-Amb. Volker
-The "Whistleblower" & their sources

Now I agree if they don't want the Whistle Blower to keep them "private".... but why not the rest????

Is this due process trying to get all the facts???? I know this isn't a "trial" yet. But how come doesn't Schiff want to get all the facts???

This shows you even more how this isn't about due process and getting to the facts of the matter. It is about pushing a narrative to help win an election in 2020... It is straight BS.

Even if you hate Trump... why wouldn't you want all these others to testify (other than the Whistle blower)&#8230;. Why did Schiff shut them down???? Why wont he let the Republicans in a public setting ask questions of Volker.... they did it in private... why not now in public??? Did the stuff "leaked" about Volker's testimony not true or just cherry picked??? :bop: Remember Volker is a "star" witness of the Dem's.... why not make what his "bombshells" were more public?? Unless they were not "bombshells"..... this is just garbage.

Again is showing more and more of how this is a sham. This is more of a "witch hunt" than the mueller probe. :bop:

Again if these people were shut down to testify by Schiff on behalf of Republicans request.... it shows you how BS this whole thing is.

I for see that this will go on until spring time.... and no articles will get drawn up but the "leaking" will keep happening to try and hurt trump 's re-election bid. It is all a political ploy to garner votes for the Dem's. To mis-inform the public or try to sway public opinion. This is all a STUNT. oke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Chuck I seen the same list on FOX tonight. Liars can t afford to be contradicted. The democrats have no integrity, no dignity, and no shame.

I think some of the republicans that will not run next election are part of the swamp like Biden, and want out before they are exposed.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is another issues....

Some of the witnesses that the Repbulicans want to call are in the "chain" of knowledge. Some of the "star witnesses" of the Democrats said they got info from some of these people.....

Here is one of the "chains"....
European Union Ambassador Gordon Sondland told National Security Council official Tim Morrison who, in turn, told Taylor that there was a purported "quid pro quo."

So again why not have Morrison testify???? Along with Volker??

Another "chain"... Deputy Assistant Secretary of State George Kent testified that he "believed" there was a "quid pro quo" after speaking to Taylor who spoke to Morrison who heard it from Sondland who, as noted, "presumed" a precondition.

So another mention of Morrison..... But why again don't they want him to testify???

If this is a fact finding mission.... why not?

I think that behind closed doors Schiff pushed witnesses into saying certain things... (like lawyers tend to do). But then doesn't want these people "cross" examined in a public setting because it will show that he "pushed" them into some of the testimony.

Again.... this is a sham when he shot down all of the people on the list. I will say that if he wanted to keep the Whistle Blower safe... then that is fine. But how about the rest of the people? He can still object or cut off questions that would lead to the Whistle Blowers identity. To keep the Whistle Blower safe. But why not let these people testify in public.

Again.... my biggest issue is the whole DUE process of this.

I know Ken always likes to say.... what comes around goes around... especially with the do nothing congress we have. But think about this is setting a new standards. Would you want to see this happen if the shoe was on the other foot???

That is the biggest issue with this whole Sham..... :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Didn't they only recently change the whistleblower requirement from direct observation, to second person. That's bad enough since it violates the hearsay required in the U S justice system, but isn't this whistleblower the third person in line? He or she deserves no protection from identification.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I want to hear what these witnesses have to say before i decide if the Clown Prince deserves to be removed from office. Both Republican and Democrats can ask questions.

But I will be out in the woods deer hunting the next days. I'm sure the lying immoral Clown Prince will send out a deluge of Tweets.
And Republican lemmings will continue to follow over the cliff. If he did nothing illegal....why is he not allowing his people to testify? oke: oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

Good luck hunting. This cold front should have them up on their feet moving around. In my neck of the woods... too much corn for them to hide in.

Now onto the subject..... I am not getting the stuff from his tweets. But people who are in the room of the closed door hearings. So people who have heard the testimony and then rebut what is "leaked". It is like page #1 says this damning info... then page #4 totally discredits what was said on page #1. When Republican's are asking the questions. oke:

But onto the public hearings... We wont hear anything from the Republicans witnesses!! So how can you know what is the total truth or not. That is my issue. Because the Republican witnesses will also be questioned by the Dem's. So if the Dem's have all the "smoking gun" type of facts or "bombshells".... why not let these other people testify and see what they say about those "bombshells". If the evidence is that strong they shouldn't be able to discredit it. :bop:

Also I am finding more and more why they Schiff doesn't want Volker to testify in public. Because he completely would shatter all of the other witnesses. Because he has come out and said... NO QUID PRO QUO.... NO EXTORTION.... etc. He would also cut the narrative that it is all about Biden and not about corruption across the board. oke: Which is the key talking point of this whole thing. It wasn't only about biden&#8230; it was about corruption in that country and past leaders. :bop:

Now about how people from the White house are bucking the subpoena's..... yeah this gets me a little. It looks like you are trying to hide things. But then on the other hand it is also putting light on how this is all shady by some democrats as well. I think people should testify if they are subpoena. :thumb: But that is if everything is fair and on an even playing field. Which it is not!

I mean how come if people from the White House come and testify.... they cant have white house counsel with them??? oke: Isn't this supposed to be open and fair?

If this is open and fair.... why isn't there any Republican witnesses allowed by Schiff??

If this is open and fair... why cant they ask about Hunter Biden? I mean isn't that the quid pro quo everyone wants to know about??? :bop: Isnt this the root of the issue???

Like I mentioned to get the answers we need to ask questions yet half of the people cant ask questions about the root of the issue. So how is this due process???

EDIT:

I don't know what this has to do with the price of tea in china.... but a complaint was filed to the IG about the "whistle blower" violating some sort of fund raising issues? Is it money from a foreign government... or what exactly this nonsense is. But something to watch.

Edit Again...

The big question is Why when Joe Biden said he would withhold aid from the Ukraine for corruption (it is on tape and he boasted about it) that this wasn't an impeachable offense.... yet Trump investigating corruption is? I know people will say because Biden was mentioned.... But if a US citizen is apart of the possible corruption... don't we want to know about it. IE: Why cant the Republicans now ask questions about what the witnesses know or don't know about Hunter Biden and Barism? Some of the "witnesses" are supposed to be EXPERTS on things or dealings with the Ukraine... with the Trump and Obama administration. Like I mentioned.... questions need to be asked and answered that are at the root of this. Yet Schiff isn't allowing those types of questions. How is this getting all of the FACTS.... the answer it isn't trying to get all of the FACTs. :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> the answer it isn't trying to get all of the FACTs. :bop:


  That's a kind way to put it Chuck. My perspective is they are trying to hide facts and replace them with fiction.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

How can we get ALL the facts if he keeps telling his underlings not to testify. I'm guessing obviously he is afraid of what they might say. How many underlings has he ordered not to testify? I have lost count. But then what can we expect from someone like this guy.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

First off the silly democrats are ignoring the separation of powers in our constitution. Congress subpoenas mean nothing to the administrative arm unless Congress goes to the judicial for subpoeanas. Second there has been so many leaks and so many from the swamp working against Trump he doesn't know who he can trust to tell the truth. Third why cooperate with those who have already lied trying to destroy you?

I have lost count of the Democrat accusations that in the end have been proven false. This impeachment is simply another of many.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'll use a little old old humor to explain why Trump has told his people not to comply with the subpoenas. Their questioning and leaks would go something like this:

Question: have you stopped beating your wife?
Answer: No
Leak: Trump admits he still beats his wife?

All the while never having beat his wife how could he stop.
Context, context,context. This is how the democrats mislead, and distort the truth. It's how a coward lies.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Question: have you stopped beating your wife?
> Answer: No
> Leak: Trump admits he still beats his wife?
> 
> ...


Plainsman.... it would go a little more like this.

Question by a Dem: Have you ever seen Trump beat his wife...
Answer: No.
Question by Dem: So you are not 100% sure he doesn't beat his wife in private?
Answer: No I am not sure what happens in private but I have never seen him mistreat his wife ever.

LEAK: Trump beats his wife behind closed doors according to staff.

Yes this is bad humor but it is the truth with how this whole thing has gone.

Ken:

Like I touched on when I talked about the people not testifying.... Why would then when it isn't a fair going? Because they cant have white house counsel with them during testimony. So why would you put yourself out there with out representation with you that has your back? I mean they have a right for legal counsel don't they?? Just can't be white house counsel oke: Nice way to go around the law isn't it. That is what this whole thing is. Then the impeachment leader doesn't want certain people to testify.... WHY??? Like I mentioned why not if according to Schiff, Swwell, and other Dem's..... they have all the evidence they need. Then why not let the others testify and put in front of them the "evidence"?

Here is why I think Schiff wanted all of this total control stuff with allowing and not allowing certain questions and witnesses.

1. To keep the whistleblower hidden.
2. To keep his interactions with the whistleblower hidden.
3. To only feed/leak what he wants to for public opinion.
4. To keep any ties that the Dem's have had with witnesses hidden (Marie Yovanovitch)
5. To keep it on tasks (not dive into other BS)
6. To force Trump out of office.

Now some of these things are ok.... but some are not when you are trying to be forth right, honest, open, and find the facts. :bop:

EDIT: I did see that Volker is on the list of people who will testify. That could be interesting. oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Schiff came out and stated he doesn't know the whistle blower or his name....

HMMMMM...

1. It is proven that his staff or him hand contact with the whistle blower.
2. He doesn't want the Whistle Blower to testify... how can this be if he doesn't know who they are????

Is this sounding more and more fishy???? :bop: :bop: :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Schiff said the facts are not "seriously contested"....

So if there was not a "quid pro quo" or extortion.... what is this all about?

Because the facts show he didn't extort or put pressure on the Ukraine. They got the funding, they didn't do an investigation, they didn't come out and say BIDEN this or BIDEN that (which is what the dem's are saying Trump wanted).

So again.... what is all of this about??

Because those are the facts :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Taylor testified and stated multiple times...

He never talked with the president about the Ukraine and aid.

Taylor testified that he was or instructed people to push back against the president and his wishes for the Ukraine policy.

HMMMMMMMMM...&#8230;&#8230;.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Both witnesses: Kent and taylor&#8230;.

Stated they didn't like what Rudy was doing in the Ukraine.... he was "investigating" stuff. Now the question would be was he investigating stuff to defend his client against the Mueller probe.... was he investigating stuff for future elections.... was he investigating stuff for what is going on right now with the DOJ....ie: the 2016 election BS that Barr and Horowitz are investigating as we speak.

Those are things that need to be asked.... yet Schiff wont ask those questions... as of now.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Taylor testified he heard from an aid whom over heard a phone call that Trump had with Sondland where trump asked about "investigations"...

So like my previous post... is it about the DOJ investigation going on... or other?

Remember the transcript talks about other investigations.... ie: Crowd Strike, DNC Servers/emails, corruption in the 2016 election, Bidens, etc. The list is long for investigations. oke:

Edit:

Will Schiff allow these questions to be asked?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Taylor testified....

That Sondland told Taylor that trump said NO QUID PRO QUO....

So... what is this about????

Is it that they are now giving opinions? Opinions are not facts.... The MN Vikings are the greatest team on earth is my opinion.... is that a fact? oke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Taylor testified...

No facts show that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 election.

So is this more about what is coming in the IG report???

But it is good he stated this. It shows they are asking some of the questions I have. It shows that Trump was asking about those investigations that is going on right now. It is showing that it wasn't all about Biden. oke: :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Exact Testimony from Taylor when questioned by Rep Jordan...



> Jordan: You didn't listen in on President Trump & Zelensky's call?
> 
> Taylor: I did not.
> 
> ...


So again... never talked with Trump or chief of staff. How can they know what really was wanted or not wanted???


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Witness Taylor when asked about the information he got 2nd, 3rd, and 4th hand... and if he got that info wrong.

He said... .PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES. :thumb:

All the testimony so far has not found any linkage between aid withheld and investigations into only the bidens. :bop:

They mention investigations.... but like I said... which ones?

What I have heard is more about policy issues or disagreements. So if this is all about policy issues that isn't an impeachable offense.

When directly asked what is the impeachable offense.... There was crickets.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Let this sink in....

An Elected Official (Mike Quigley) just said.... Heresy can be much better than direct evidence!

yes... let that sink in. So now we should listen to heresy over facts or evidence?

I have stated this before.... I am glad they looked into this. But so far all of the EVIDENCE is pointing at nothing. The rest is heresy. You need to investigate or looking into heresy... but facts should shut down heresy


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I agree with Rush and Hannity that they should stop now before they damage themselves further. They look like fools to anyone with any common sense. Chucks quote is the perfect example:


> Heresy can be much better than direct evidence!


 If you believe this guy we should get rid of all eye witnesses to crime and try find the people they talked to instead. I find some of the stuff to dumb to believe I heard it right.

Oh well let them keep it up. They are handing the 2020 elections the the republicans on a silver platter. I am going to have to avoid talking with friends and relatives about politics because I would be so disappointed if they were not smart enough to see through this sham and still vote democrat.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman... that was a direct quote from one of our elected leaders.... He said Heresy is much better than direct evidence. oke: oke: oke:

Also just read that Taylor even said that Ukraine should look at Burisma for bribes!!! So Burisma doesn't pass any smell tests. :beer: Which again is onething Trump talked about was looking into that company. It just so happens that Biden is involved in that.

I honestly think that is why the Dem's wanted to get Biden into the race. Remember he was on the fence for so long. Was it so they could bring up this stuff with Trump. Yeah I know I am wearing a tin foil hat on this conspiracy theory but it is something to think about.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Probably 1/3 of the people in this country want the Biden deal investigated. It would seem that would be enough to warrant Trumps request to look into it. The fact that it would benefit Trump is just a bon us. The ethics committee should have already investigated this but the Dems already know the answer and refuse to address it publicly.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The only really "new" thing brought up in yesterdays testimony is of a "new phone call".

This is the one where an aid overheard or listened in on a phone call from Sodland. Sodland changed his testimony to show this... remember the "bombshell" of when he changed his testimony. This was to include this. This aid overheard Trump ask about "investigations".... nothing on what investigation (as of now)&#8230; just "Investigation".

We have to remember that the president asked about lots of stuff to be investigated.... and the DOJ was investigating many things at the time and still are. oke:

But it will be interesting now with the next few days and witnesses.... ie: Sodland and Volker. Sodland has stated NO QUID PRO QUO or EXTORTION.... Volker has stated the same. Sodland needs to shed light on this "other" phone conversation. Or Trump needs to release that transcript of that call as well.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So some of the testimony going on today...

Lt. Col. Vindman.

1. He had a discussion with someone from the Intelegence community but Schiff wont let him say who it was he talked with. Ok.... so to protect the WB.... yet both of them have stated during the public hearings as to not know whom the WB is. So why not answer questions.... Someone is lying.

2. The two witnesses today both stated that they don't think "Bribery" was committed....and in all the depositions released... only Bribery or Bribe showed up once... and it had to do with Biden's. So again... no "bribery" like Pelosi mentioned and what now the Dem's are saying happened. What will be the new "catch phrase".... it was Quid pro quo... then EXTORTION.... now Bribery.... what is next????

3. Lt Col Vindman also has never spoken to the President..... so again no first hand knowledge.

4. Schiff again is making things up.... He stated Sondland told Ukraine they would need to start an investigation to get aid. Sondland didn't say that.... he said Believe it was "likely the case" but didn't know for sure. So again it is someone's opinion or assumption... not an ORDER. Which again is a big deal. Because I could believe a coach would want a QB to run a pass play on 3rd down and 15 yards to go... but the coach could call for a run.... you see it is an assumption not the fact. :bop:

So again the two witnesses today are not giving anything new to this whole thing. Only opinion, presumptions, assumptions, disagreement with policy decisions, etc..... just like how we all agree or disagree with policy that is happening.

Yep.... still nothing or a SMOKING GUN or BOMBSHELL..... all again wasting our time, tax payers money, etc. When we have a budget issues, funding issues, trade deals waiting to get ratified, prescription drug bills to be voted on or passed, etc. But again we waste our time and resources on this..... OH and now they will look back at the Mueller probe to see if Trump lied to Mueller.... which Mueller never found out that he did.... uke: uke: uke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Schiff just pushed back on witnesses testimony that they didn't "have firsthand knowledge" about Biden's and Burisma&#8230;.

Ok that is fine and I agree that we cant use Hersay&#8230;.. but how come he is all about hersay when it involves Trump....

Again you cant have it one way when it is not if your favor but want it when it is in your favor....

This again should show how much of a sham this whole process is. It isn't about facts :bop: :beer:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Another tidbit from today...

1. Vindman stated he went up the chain of command with his concern about the 7/25 phone call. Yet Morrison testified he didn't hear anything about it from Vindman.

2. Vindman talked to legal counsel and someone in the intelligence agency about his concerns with the call.

3. Morrison said he had now issues with the call.

4. Vindman said he never leaked the call to anyone.

5. The lawyer Vindman talked to told him to not talk to anyone about the call... So he didn't talk to his boss.... but he talked with his brother, to lawyers, to Sec. Kent, and someone from the intelligence agency. :thumb:

Again I will agree not to try and out the WB. Which is what some of this questioning is trying to do or is leading to the WB. They might not be trying out the WB... but you see questions need to be asked and that is what they are doing. But if nobody knows who the WB is or had contact with them.... why not let the info out? Remember Schiff has stated he doesn't know who it is but yet his staff met with them. The smell test is passing in any of this. Also why wasn't "chain of command followed" with Vindman and his complaint? He went outside of it?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

You know what? I am beginning g to wonder if there really is a whistleblower. There is a good chance even that is a lie.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I agree with you on this.... or was the WB Vindman?

But lots of this is raveling even more so. Every witness so far has stated NO QUID PRO QUO, NO BRIBERY, NO EXTORTION....

Also a Bloomberg article came out doing a "timeline" on Sondlands testimony.... the headline read Sondland states quid pro quo and everyone was in the loop...

Well you know what he was talking about..... Investigation of corruption as a whole. He mentioned the 2016 election issues, the DNC server/emails, and Burisma&#8230;. not once did he say "BIDEN". Got to love how media is trying to drive a narrative.

Look under my last few posts on the "impeachment" thread.... Morrison and Volker shut down anything about Vindman... :bop: Let alone Vindmans own testimony. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Text messages directly from Sondland.

The main question that needs to be asked of Sondland&#8230;. was this all dealing with 2016 or the past corruption in the Ukraine that the newly elected president said he was going to clean up.... or was it for "future" election 2020.

That is a huge difference. If people cant see the difference the that truly shows they only hate trump.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> "I have no reason to doubt their accounts," Sondland will say in his opening statement. "I would have been more surprised if President Trump had not mentioned investigations, particularly given what we were hearing from Mr. Giuliani about the president's concerns. However, I have no recollection of discussing Vice President Biden or his son on that call or after the call ended."


Directly from Sondland today...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Sondland testified today that :

Nobody on earth told him aid was connected to investigations.... that is Rudy, Mulvaney, Trump, etc.... NOBODY.

yet Schiff gives a press conference saying otherwise..... uke:

Seriously.... this is crazy. Plus headlines of QUID PRO QUO and what not.... uke: uke:

Love how they run with an opening statement then it gets trashed in following questioning.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Sondland said he assumed there was a QUID PRO QUO, but when asked what did Trump say he wanted? From Trumps mouth, he said, I want nothing there is no QUID PRO QUO. So much for his assumption.


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