# Do we really need this kind of deer hunting in ND



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

This is part of a written document from a group called Animal Law.

This is why we need a baiting law.

The Condemned Animal Ate a Hearty Meal

Often used in conjunction with funnels are food plots and feeding stations. Food plots, as we noted above, are small patches of land planted in a crop, such as corn, that the targeted species enjoys. Usually no bigger than a large garden, they are typically bordered by a grassy strip that leaves the animals exposed while they eat. Surrounded by woods or scattered trees that give the hunter cover, food plots turn the animals they attract into standing targets at close range. Most game ranches that use food plots plant several at a distance from one another so they can switch off randomly from one to another. Animals would soon begin to avoid a food plot that was "overhunted."

To further increase the deadliness of food plots, some operators erect permanent ground level blinds or elevated shooting stands overlooking them. For example, RockBridge Lodge in Alabama assures clients that, "You may hunt over white oak acorns, green fields, persimmon trees, corn food plots on trails to and from bedding areas, and rest assured you will get the opportunity to launch an arrow ... RockBridge deer are fed and managed year round. Specialty crops are planted to attract and hold the game."41 Shot at close range by hunters hidden from view, the animals have no chance. Essentially a refinement of food plots, feeding stations are troughs in which a guide places food at the same time every day for days or weeks before taking a client to hunt over it. In this way the guide knows precisely when animals will appear at the station to eat, and the hunter doesn't have to waste time waiting for a target to show up. In a hi-tech variation, some feeding stations use automatic dispensers with electronic timers.

As with food plots, feeding stations are often used in conjunction with blinds or shooting stands. Harry's Lodge in Maine takes no chances on prospective clients worrying that they may not get a point blank shot since, "At Harry's Lodge we run our bear hunts from tree stands over baits. Because of an average of less than 20 yards from tree to bait, we are set-up especially well for all types of weapons, whether you use a gun, bow, or pistol."42 The significance of "free-roaming" for the standards of hunting is that the animal has a greater opportunity to elude the hunter and the hunter has a more difficult time in locating the animal and getting in range. It is a critical factor in the "balance" that Jim Posewitz of Orion talked about. Animals lured to food plots, feeding stations and bait piles are as hard to find and easy to shoot as animals in a pen. Like everything else in canned hunts, the notion that an animal shot over a food plot, a feeding station, or a bait pile is free-roaming is an illusion. The appearance is there, but the truth is just the opposite.

For example, The 777 Ranch near San Antonio bills itself as "Africa in Texas." The Jim Carrey movie "Ace Ventura -- When Nature Calls" was filmed at the 777 Ranch. Prices range from $1,500 to kill a "trophy class" Indian blackbuck antelope to $12,500 for a "record class" markhor, a Middle Eastern member of the goat family.19 This ranch's prices are typical of what the market seems to bear. Glen Savage Ranch in Pennsylvania charges $5,995 for a white-tailed deer rated between 140 and 154 on the scoring scale of the Boone and Crockett Club (B&C) -- an organization that maintains a kind of "Guiness Book of World Records" for big game -- and $9,995 for a buck rated between 170 and 184. For bucks with higher B&C scores, Glen Savage discreetly suggests that the prospective customer "call for pricing."20


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

I am not a bear hunter but could Minnesota reach their harvest goal for bears without baiting being a legal way to hunt? There are circumstances where baiting may be a necessity. One man's opinion.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Are you sure that was not written by PETA or some other anti-hunting organization? Alot of negative crap comes out of their mouths and hits the airwaves. It's up to us to not make our selves look bad they are doing a fine job of it for us already. As a matter of fact here is their website!! 8)

http://www.animal-law.org/center/mission.htm


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

Baintg in one thing...

Bainting in a fenced or canned hunting enviroment ain't hunting, it's called culling the herd.


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## ej4prmc (Dec 3, 2004)

Personal opinion, but Ken W. YOU ARE WRONG, and I think you are working for PETA, a LEFT, LEFT, LEFT, WING GROUP. By the way PLANTS ARE LIVING THINGS ALSO, so quit eating plants also! :******:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I can't think of any other animal that needs to be baited other than bears.So yes.I guess that has to be an exception.

Lets keep right on doing what is described in that article....

Let's sell antlered bucks by how much they will score B&C.

Let's fence in big game animals and sell them by the head.

Let's guarantee a trophy or you don't have to pay.

Let's all put out troughs of bait so we can be assured of getting that big buck in just the right position for that killing shot.After all the client is paying big $$$$ no real hunting experience is necessary anymore,it's all about putting that big head on the wall...What the H*ll it's all hunting.We don't really care if they are free roaming as long as they make B&C.

If we as sportsman don't care about this kind of thing we are no longer sportsman. :eyeroll:

And I don't have anything to do with PETA.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

DJRooster said:


> I am not a bear hunter but could Minnesota reach their harvest goal for bears without baiting being a legal way to hunt? There are circumstances where baiting may be a necessity. One man's opinion.


I think Ken is more concerned with a baiting law in concerns to deer hunting; since there's no bear hunting in ND. MN has to have baiting. Even with baiting the success rate, in a good year, is around 30%. In a flat, forested terrain there really would be no alternative way to hunt bears. Out West spot and stalk is the preferred method but unfortunately MN doesn't have too many mountains and open areas in bear country. Without baiting I doubt the harvest would even top 500 bears in MN. Without a significant harvest the population would explode and they'd cause more problems as they already are.


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## Goose Guy350 (Nov 29, 2004)

In the Upper Pennisula of Michigan the baiting of deer has become a major issue. Michigan sells an unlimited number of buck tags and we get everyone and their brother for the firearm season and it seems that most of them think that with enough bait they will shoot the buck of a lifetime. The guys that sit over a hundred pounds of corn are not hunters, there is no skill involved. Michigan has developed a 2 gallon limit on bait which is very rarely followed and even the gas station and other businesses have bags of carrots, apples, beets, and corn on sale. The number of hunters and the methods of hunting the deer has led me to stop deer hunting and every November 15th I find my blind boat to be the only thing floating at the top of a couple of lines of diver dekes on my favorite lake weather permitting open water. As for bear hunting in the midwest using bait is in my mind the most humane way to harvest bear, some people run them with hounds until the bear tires and then simply shoot them out of tree if they feel they are big enough. Yes the running of the hounds is thrilling and the few glimpse you get of dogs gets your heart pumping but the bear has no chance once it "tree's" and that is the part that bothers me, at least with bait the bear come in quite wary. Thats just my .02 and I hope that baiting does not affect anyone elses hunting grounds in the way that it has affected mine.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Im not for baiting but there are a lot of forms of deer hunting that could be construed as less than ethical.
Having witnessed the deer hunt in NoDak, I know for a fact that there are a large number of guys who put way more miles on their pickups than on their Redwings. 8 trucks circling a section known to have a buck in it with the lucky vehicle being the one he tries to squirt by doesnt seem all that much more sporting than baiting.
Maybe you guys here dont hunt that way, but I know you have seen it and understand that it has become somewhat of a tradition.
In Minnesota, I see a lot more 4 wheeler hunters these days. Not shooting from them but doing a lot of things with them that used to be part of the hunt. 
Is a scoped rifle over a cornfield sporting?
How about drives?
How about throwing lead at running deer?
How about in line muzzleloaders with speed loaders and scopes during a season supposed to be set aside for primative weapons?
A lot of this has to do with where it is practiced. 
Im betting you could "bait" til you were blue in the face and it wouldnt do you much good because of the ag crops available.
Im not passing judgement, just pointing out that we all live in a glass house from time to time.


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