# Cowardice



## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

I received another interesting email for discussion:

Matthias Dapfner, Chief Executive of the huge German publisher Axel Springer AG, has written a blistering attack in DIE WELT, Germany's largest daily newspaper, against the timid reaction of Europe in the face of the Islamic threat.

This is a must-read by all Americans. History will certify its correctness. (George Reppas)

EUROPE - THY NAME IS COWARDICE (Commentary by Mathias Dapfner CEO, Axel Springer, AG)

A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.

Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman, suppressive, and murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the
Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.

Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U.N. Oil-for-Food program.

And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement... How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany. I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolf Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time."

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims,
focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.

It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.

Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush.

His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly 50 years of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.

On the contrary - we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even (Germany's Interior Minister) Otto Schily justifiably criticizes. Why? Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy - because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake - literally everything.

While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare
systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our 35-hour workweek or our dental coverage, or our 4 weeks of paid vacation... Or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "reach out to terrorists. To understand and forgive."

These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house.

Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MOB, that was a very good article. Even in this nation the liberals try to choke us as we try to defend them. What a sad state of affairs. I would add to some of our politicians and their followers not just cowardice, but deception, and corruption for power. 
Hide your head in the sand maybe the wolf will go away.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

This is a great article and should be a wakeup call to anyone who doesn't believe this is a silent insideous strategy employed by fundamentalist Islam. Hopefully this gives Europeans pause to remember their past and learn from it, lest they repeat it.

Our diplomatic efforts in Europe should be focusing on bringing the EU on board with this message. It simply amazes me every time I hear something new that this idea isn't catching on. It seems so obvious that SOMETHING is underfoot. But that is the intention of the strategy they are implying. Do it across many geographies, plant the seeds and allow the small mosques start forth. Emigrate to blind countries by claiming religous persecution in your home country. Establish yourself, your family and your faith in that new country. Build a new mosque there and start a new program of indoctrination on that soil. Bide your time while you plant the seeds of change and intolerance. Start protesting using free speech and freedom of religion to further your mission. Use the very freedoms that your religion doesn't allow you to have to have a bully pulpit in which to spew your intolerance. If you are successful heaven awaits.

Hopefully the world wakes up before this trojan horse opens it's belly......


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> I would add to some of our politicians and their followers not just cowardice, but deception, and corruption for power.


You don't say? I wonder who those folks are?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The ones that say "stay calm, let the poison work". Anybody ring a bell.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

No, can't say that rings any bells. As to corruption though, well I can think of a few. How about Delay and Libbey? Deception... well I can think of a few for that too, but I'm certain you know who they are too.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Clinton? :lol:


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

MT,
I doubt if you and your left wing looney birds wil ever get it. It's really very simple.

FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

You need to treasure it, protect it, defend it and most of all be willing to fight for it.............


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.


So why pay more than you have to?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

You know what bothers me MT? For those of you that don't want to lead, at least get out of the way.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> You know what bothers me MT? For those of you that don't want to lead, at least get out of the way.


Neither the Democratic party nor I are lemmings.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

That statement doesn't mean you should jump off a cliff. It means what it says. If you want to stay home while your neighbor goes to Iraq, fine, but don't try to stop him from doing what he thinks is right. The most discouraging thing is our men and women in uniform have to listen to the radio tell them how terrible the war is, how we mistreat the Iraq people, how we waste money on it, how we infringe on the rights of a free nation with our morals and on and on like a stuck record. 
The ironic thing is as we go to war many of our soldiers don't have the best equipment, but is it necessary to have ball and chain antiwar zealots impede their process and giving hope to the enemy?


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

MT says


> Neither the Democratic party nor I are lemmings.


 :toofunny: Please send proof

You crack me up
oke:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> If you want to stay home while your neighbor goes to Iraq, fine, but don't try to stop him from doing what he thinks is right.


What a ridiculous idea that is. Would you step aide if your neighbor decided to start doing meth or poach? Certainly those are not equitable actions, but it is superceded by the sillyness of letting people do what they please.



> The most discouraging thing is our men and women in uniform have to listen to the radio tell them how terrible the war is, how we mistreat the Iraq people, how we waste money on it, how we infringe on the rights of a free nation with our morals and on and on like a stuck record.


Yeah, especially when it's true.



> The ironic thing is as we go to war many of our soldiers don't have the best equipment, but is it necessary to have ball and chain antiwar zealots impede their process and giving hope to the enemy?


What does the improper equipment have to do with the second part of your statement? Do you really think that the insurgents wake up and watch CNN and are heartened for the day by the uneasiness they hear about the war?

Your statement that having people voice their opinions against the war is bad is also ridiculous. Take your ideal to the nth degree, what if there were no war protesters, and everyone was complacent? Who would keep the leaders from going to war unnecessarily?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The poor equipment and the anti war people are two strokes against them. The later being a psychological impediment. How hard would it be for you to pick up your rifle and patrol each day when 20 percent of the people back home didn't want you doing it, and another 20 percent don't respect soldiers, and another smaller group that hates anyone involved in the military. 
This is like many other things MT you don't want to understand the simplest of statements because if you did you couldn't argue.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> The poor equipment and the anti war people are two strokes against them. The later being a psychological impediment. How hard would it be for you to pick up your rifle and patrol each day when 20 percent of the people back home didn't want you doing it, and another 20 percent don't respect soldiers, and another smaller group that hates anyone involved in the military.
> This is like many other things MT you don't want to understand the simplest of statements because if you did you couldn't argue.


Did it ever occur to you that maybe the public sentiment is poor because we were led into the war on incorrect and possibly falsified information and have been lied to by a PR campaign which has tried its best to keep a smiley face on this conflict when in reality we have made little progress and there is no light at the end of the tunnel? You see, you refuse to consider the fact that it is anti-war sentiment, not anti-soldier sentiment. I will ask you again, if it was not for those who voice their opinion against the war, who would keep us from going to war when we don't need to?


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

MT ... you are straight out of La-La-Land.

It is absolutely pointless and a complete waste of time and brain power to discuss much of anything with you ...

Your flippent, moronic, dismissive responses betray your SIG line ...

You seem intent and content to believe you are the sharpest person on the board ... but it seems appearant ... you are Gunning with a "Pea Shooter."

One day I'd like to see you stand on your own two feet and make a case for something ... you have been back for what two or three weeks ... I see little more than (you the goofball) and everyone standing in line waiting for the next opportunity to pleasure you.

Sorry ... but I don't get it.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Decoy, actions speak louder than words (that is a metaphor). If you really believe me an out of touch liberal and a moron, prove it. Just saying it doesn't get you anywhere. I'm certain that you will respond that it would be senseless, as I am an idiot. If that is so, do it for the others on this board who you may convince.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

> If you really believe me an out of touch liberal and a moron, prove it.


He doesn't have to, your taking care of that one on your own.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I will ask you again, if it was not for those who voice their opinion against the war, who would keep us from going to war when we don't need to?


I would say work through your representation in Washington, but don't undermine the soldiers and the war on the streets and in the news more than is beyond reality. Soldiers can live with real criticism, but the illogical propaganda spewed by the left for pure political advantage must take a toll on them. While encouraging the enemy I might add.

Now I expect more spin and silly arguing so I think I'll just let you talk.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

racer66,

Touche :lol: :beer:

Kind of like the very old saying........"Give him enough rope and he'll hang himself"........

MT, you're doing a great job  :lol: :eyeroll: 8)  :withstupid:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> I would say work through your representation in Washington, but don't undermine the soldiers and the war on the streets and in the news more than is beyond reality. Soldiers can live with real criticism, but the illogical propaganda spewed by the left for pure political advantage must take a toll on them. While encouraging the enemy I might add.


So protest against something (one of our Constitutional rights) is wrong? As to "illogical propaganda spewed by the left for pure political advantage", who in the hell are you to determine what is illogical? Last time I checked you were a partisan. Letting partisans on the other side determine how to run the show on the left (or visa versa) is like letting a weasel into a chicken coup.

As to political advantage, how do you separate them? When does protest against a war become something that is done for "political advantage"? Since we have two major parties, one could argue that it was always the case.

You still stand by this ridiculous notion that the enemy soldiers are somehoe heartened by the break in our views. How out of touch can you be? Do you honestly believe that they watch American news and are heartened by the anti-war sentiment and that gives them the resolve to continue fighting?


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

MT

The people that I know that returned form Iraq were disgusted by the media and felt that they only reported the bad side of any story they reported. Same was said of the politicians that spewed nothing but contempt for the military and the war on terror.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT wrote:


> Do you honestly believe that they watch American news and are heartened by the anti-war sentiment and that gives them the resolve to continue fighting?


I think the terrorists do get our news. Do you think they all live in caves? Try to imagine our country invaded, by country X. You then hear the news coming out of country X and many of the people are for the war to begin with. There are a few against it, but then added to that are the weaker with no resolve. With these people added to it now 40 percent in the nation you are fighting are against the war. Then you think if we can just hold on even more will loose their resolve. Then an election nears in country X and the opposing party tries to make the war look bad, and all of a sudden there is a majority against the war. Now you think, wow they are getting close to pulling out. They are on the brink, lets try hard to kill a bunch and their news media will say it isn't worth it. Why do I explain this, you don't understand right?


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

> You still stand by this ridiculous notion that the enemy soldiers are somehoe heartened by the break in our views. How out of touch can you be? Do you honestly believe that they watch American news and are heartened by the anti-war sentiment and that gives them the resolve to continue fighting?[/quote
> 
> Here is a quote right from Bin Ladens mouth.
> 
> ...


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> If you want to stay home while your neighbor goes to Iraq, fine, but don't try to stop him from doing what he thinks is right.


MT Replied with:


> What a ridiculous idea that is. Would you step aide if your neighbor decided to start doing meth or poach? Certainly those are not equitable actions, but it is superceded by the sillyness of letting people do what they please.


This has to be the dumbest reply yet. I see you are again injection your own words in order to spin out of context. Do you know the difference in "what he thinks is right" and "do what they please". Congratulations kid, you just went to the head of the class in how to become a troll. You also just made my ignore list. With any luck everyone else will put you there also and then you can have fun talking to yourself.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Racer, it is called a state of denial. I would guess all war protestors would deny that they help the enemy. It is simply a way of preserving ones own self esteem. They understand, but they have different priorities than you and I. The priority now is a democratic president at all expense. We didn't fuss to much about Kosavo even though we didn't like Clinton. Some people believe that the end justifies the means.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

I'm with ya on that one Plains,  .


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

MT...You love quotes so let me give you one for free. It is for you and too you and in my eyes, it is you...

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and Patriotic feeling which thinks nothing is worth war is worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight; nothing he cares about more then his personal safety; is a miserable creature who had no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

John Stuart Mill
1806-1873


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Does Bin Laden really use polls? I haven't seen it.

Plainsman I will ask you once more, let us assume that in your perfect world, no one protests the war, and we are all complacent. Who would keep us from going to war and losing yet more lives when it is not necessary?



> This has to be the dumbest reply yet. I see you are again injection your own words in order to spin out of context. Do you know the difference in "what he thinks is right" and "do what they please".


So what if they think that it is "right" to beat their kids or poach? Does that mean that you should not stop them? You may disagree with me, but that is no need to call me names.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> You still stand by this ridiculous notion that the enemy soldiers are somehoe heartened by the break in our views. How out of touch can you be? Do you honestly believe that they watch American news and are heartened by the anti-war sentiment and that gives them the resolve to continue fighting?


I'd be willing to bet that every Al Qeida sleeper cell in the US, Canada, Spain, France, England, and a host of other nations watches more CNN, FOX, BBC or MSNBC than any 5 members here combined. To assume our enemy knows nothing of the anti-war sentiment stoked by the left wing media only serves to show your ignorance on how the world works.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> I'd be willing to bet that every Al Qeida sleeper cell in the US, Canada, Spain, France, England, and a host of other nations watches more CNN, FOX, BBC or MSNBC than any 5 members here combined. To assume our enemy knows nothing of the anti-war sentiment stoked by the left wing media only serves to show your ignorance on how the world works.


And now you create magical sleep cells that live among us? How much information are you willing to fabricate to support a cause?

America is a great and free nation because people can generally say what they believe. You may disagree, and you may try to mischaracterize it as some sort of "emotional aid to the enemy", but these are just tactics to dispel a belief that you do not agree with. Thankfully, our Founders saw this coming and wrote the Bill of Rights accordingly.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Would the words from his mouth make you happy MT. I will look for the complete transcript for you to. Wait a minute I think I smell poo, could it be you've stepped in it again MT.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4628738.stm


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Racer my claim was the did not reference any sort of American poll. Certainly one could make a blanket statement about anti war sentiment towards a country that is funding a war and have it apply to someone.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

I believe this the full statement. Notice how much alike Bin Laden and MT sound.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/ ... 78D922.htm


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

> Racer my claim was the did not reference any sort of American poll. Certainly one could make a blanket statement about anti war sentiment towards a country that is funding a war and have it apply to someone.


Ummm, ya he did.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

> Posted: 16 Mar 2006 12:25 Post subject:
> 
> I'd be willing to bet that every Al Qeida sleeper cell in the US, Canada, Spain, France, England, and a host of other nations watches more CNN, FOX, BBC or MSNBC than any 5 members here combined. To assume our enemy knows nothing of the anti-war sentiment stoked by the left wing media only serves to show your ignorance on how the world works.


Very true......... Please take your head out of the sand MT, (the doctor of spin) :lol: :toofunny: :lol:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I didn't read the article, I just skimmed it. I was trying to get washed up for dinner and should have read the article thoroughly. I concede on said point.

If anything however does this not show that the impact is minimal if not positive? Would he have offered a truce and shown his soft underbelly had it not been for said polls.

I still stand by my statement that anti-war sentiment makes no difference in the mentality of insurgents or terrorists. Certainly the events around them, the death of friends and family, the loss of funding, and the like have more impact than anti war protesters in a country thousands of miles away.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> And now you create magical sleep cells that live among us? How much information are you willing to fabricate to support a cause?


Are you kidding me? Do you not understand that all of the attackers that lived, worked, and learned to fly jet liners in the US wre sleeper cells? Do you honestly believe there are not anymore?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Gun Owner said:


> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> > And now you create magical sleep cells that live among us? How much information are you willing to fabricate to support a cause?
> ...


MT if you don't believe there are more sleeper cells biding their time in the US right now...you are more crazy than I could have ever imagined!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> Are you kidding me? Do you not understand that all of the attackers that lived, worked, and learned to fly jet liners in the US wre sleeper cells? Do you honestly believe there are not anymore?


I should hope that with a Republican House of Represenatives, Senate and Presidency that your parts (supposedly hard on terror) would have rooted such supposed cells by now. Why has that not happened in your world?


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> > Are you kidding me? Do you not understand that all of the attackers that lived, worked, and learned to fly jet liners in the US wre sleeper cells? Do you honestly believe there are not anymore?
> 
> 
> I should hope that with a Republican House of Represenatives, Senate and Presidency that your parts (supposedly hard on terror) would have rooted such supposed cells by now. Why has that not happened in your world?


Intense, ongoing investigation is leading to arrests, more and more often. Its impossible to know if you have caught them all. Thats part of being a sleeper. You're just trying to pick a fight now, instead of admitting that your line of thinking was more asinine that anything you've ever said before.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Why aren't these arrests being made public? I haven't seen word one of them.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

heres one...

http://counterterror.typepad.com/the_co ... s_in_.html

or here

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/08/terror.probe/

Shall I continue?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> > Are you kidding me? Do you not understand that all of the attackers that lived, worked, and learned to fly jet liners in the US wre sleeper cells? Do you honestly believe there are not anymore?
> 
> 
> I should hope that with a Republican House of Represenatives, Senate and Presidency that your parts (supposedly hard on terror) would have rooted such supposed cells by now. Why has that not happened in your world?


MT I hope you are not naieve enough to believe that. Maybe we should open an investigation into the Clinton administration and his immigration policies making it easier for the original 9/11 sleepers to get into the country? 

There is a reason they are sleeper cells. Their entire MO is to blend in until called upon. Haven't you read up on this tactic?


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Seems like proof enough for me.

So let us continue, what do the sleeper cells have to do with anti war sentiment? Are they driven to kill by those who speak out against the war? Would they not still act in the same fashion is it was not for anti war sentiment?


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Its positive reinforcement. Plain and simple. When Johnny Hollywood stands up and says GW is a war criminal, or John Kerry says "wrong war, wrong time" or any other anti-war/pro-pacifism statements are made its like a big ole "attaboy" pat on the back of these local terrorists.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Oh, and for the record, your strong arguments, followed by an "oh, good point" goes a LONG way toward DecoyDummy's comments about you. It proves you argue based on opinion and not fact. It proves you dont bother to fact check before you post. And it proves that even when you accept the given facts, you refuse to put 2+2 together for yourself, leaving it up to one of us to do it for you.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Gun Owner said:


> Its positive reinforcement. Plain and simple. When Johnny Hollywood stands up and says GW is a war criminal, or John Kerry says "wrong war, wrong time" or any other anti-war/pro-pacifism statements are made its like a big ole "attaboy" pat on the back of these local terrorists.


It has nothing to do with boasting the terrorists ego in this current war (Iraq), as they did not start this war.

As to my facts, I am sometimes wrong, but I will fess up to it every time.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> It has nothing to do with boasting the terrorists ego in this current war (Iraq), as they did not start this war.


Osama himself has made statements regarding the Iraq war. Remember the "truce" offering? Obviously if Osama thinks Iraq is a topic of discussion, then maybe, just maybe, his followers do to?

2+2.....


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

You are adding 2 plus 2, the first being Osama and the second two being Iraq. The problem is that Osama did not have a hold on Iraq before the war. As such, it was not he who dragged us into the war. My point stands.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> You are adding 2 plus 2, the first being Osama and the second two being Iraq. The problem is that Osama did not have a hold on Iraq before the war. As such, it was not he who dragged us into the war. My point stands.


No it doesnt. You claim that anti-war sentiment towards Iraq does nothing to fuel the egos of terrorisits. Thats like saying a mexican against black rights does not encourage the KKK. To a terrorist, anything involving the US, the middle east, and all public opinions of such things are considered important. Whether or not Al-Qeida had anything to do with the start of the war is mute. Al Qeida is involved now, and thats what Im talking about.

Or did you not hear about the latest Al Qeida arrests in Iraq either?


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

> It has nothing to do with boasting the terrorists ego in this current war (Iraq), as they did not start this war.


It has everything to do with it, you guys play right into their hands. When they hear you guys flappin your gums about not being able to win the war and lets bring the troops home now, it's a mess, you know the typical lib BS, it gives them even more hope. You can't honestly tell us that if you were in Bin Ladens shoes it wouldn't give you hope that the US would retreat, allowing you to walk in and take over. On top of that it is humiliating to the troops to hear you guys rambling on and on.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Interesting also that Now Iran wants to meet with the US regarding the Iraq situation ...

Interseting also that the more sophisticated bombs showing up in Iraq are now being linked to Iran.

As I have said many times ... This war is taking place on Iraqi soil, but it is indeed a war with Iran ... We are at war with Iran right now ... It is only a matter of it's escelation to a point where it becomes undenieable for all.

Iraq has provided a "land base" for this confrontation ... We may indeed be spread thin as far as military ... but we have a foot hold and a springboard which we would not have ... were we to have not taken Saddam to task for his crimes.

Call GWB whatever you want but is no Coward ... he is setting the stage for Victory


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> When they hear you guys flappin your gums about not being able to win the war and lets bring the troops home now, it's a mess, you know the typical lib BS, it gives them even more hope. You can't honestly tell us that if you were in Bin Ladens shoes it wouldn't give you hope that the US would retreat, allowing you to walk in and take over.


So racer would you prefer that no one was against the war?



> On top of that it is humiliating to the troops to hear you guys rambling on and on


So because it sounds bad it shouldn't be said? We don't live in a perfect world.



> Call GWB whatever you want but is no Coward ... he is setting the stage for Victory


Or a terrific loss. Hopefully the former.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

DecoyDummy said:


> Interesting also that Now Iran wants to meet with the US regarding the Iraq situation ...
> 
> Interseting also that the more sophisticated bombs showing up in Iraq are now being linked to Iran.
> 
> ...


I agree that we should worry about Iran MUCH more than anyone else in the world right now!

Ryan


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> "Does Bin Laden really use polls? I haven't seen it."


 SHOT FIRED!!!!


Militant_Tiger said:


> "I didn't read the article, I just skimmed it. I was trying to get washed up for dinner and should have read the article thoroughly. I concede on said point. "


 oooooooopss, it was a blank


Militant_Tiger said:


> "Why aren't these arrests being made public? I haven't seen word one of them."


 FIRE TWO!


Militant_Tiger said:


> "Seems like proof enough for me."


 damn, another blank!

This is just one Topic MT... You're sig line seems a lil off.

You're constantly trying really hard to prove to us that we're wrong and all you end up doing is ignoring the facts, or ignoring what the facts mean. One of these days I hope you wake up. You seem like a bright kid. I for one enjoy our little discussions, they clue me in on how the leftist mind cobbles together random facts to make an impossible argument seem possible.

Theres hope for you, Im sure of it. Afterall, someone much smarter than me once sais "If you're not a liberal in your youth, you dont have a heart. If you're not a conservative as an adult, you dont have a brain"


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ben Elli said:


> Gun Owner said:
> 
> 
> > Militant_Tiger said:
> ...


I might add MT that one sleeper cell might be those friends you keep talking to. You know the ones that tell you how peaceful Islam is. Do you think these people are to stupid to have covert actions, including people who live among us like a time bomb. The CIA, Russian KGB, Israeli MASAD are not the only ones with covert actions. Even some of our citizens who are vehemently anti war go off the deep end and do crazy things. Remember the nut with a shoe bomb?


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

You haven't answered my question MT.



> You can't honestly tell us that if you were in Bin Ladens shoes it wouldn't give you hope that the US would retreat, allowing you to walk in and take over


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> You may disagree with me, but that is no need to call me names.


No one called you a name kid. Reading comprehension seems to be another thing on your list of short comings. Or maybe you just, lets see.....what is that excuse you've been using lately to remove your foot from your mouth......oh yeah..... skimmed over that one to........


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> I might add MT that one sleeper cell might be those friends you keep talking to. You know the ones that tell you how peaceful Islam is. Do you think these people are to stupid to have covert actions, including people who live among us like a time bomb. The CIA, Russian KGB, Israeli MASAD are not the only ones with covert actions. Even some of our citizens who are vehemently anti war go off the deep end and do crazy things. Remember the nut with a shoe bomb?


Indeed, but no more likely than you are a KKK member or a neo nazi.



> You can't honestly tell us that if you were in Bin Ladens shoes it wouldn't give you hope that the US would retreat, allowing you to walk in and take over


So in your mind if there were no protesters Bin Laden would see the futility of his struggle and give himself up for capture? I do not think so. I would be given far more hope for retreat by the daily bombings in Iraq than I would by American protests. These protests will carry little meaning to someone who is so far removed, especially when compared to daily violence.



> You're constantly trying really hard to prove to us that we're wrong and all you end up doing is ignoring the facts, or ignoring what the facts mean.


I do not ignore the facts, I simply miss them in haste. For instance I made a fool of myself today because I was in a hurry.



> I for one enjoy our little discussions, they clue me in on how the leftist mind cobbles together random facts to make an impossible argument seem possible.


You may call my arguments impossible but I find many of yours unreasonable. Thus far you have trounced me twice, once on the abortion issue and once regarding said "sleeper cells". The former was due to my lack of a hard stance on the issue, and the loss of a website which I had found that summed up the argument better than I could. The latter is thanks to my skimming of a site. Many a time and person have I won arguments with people on these boards, mostly those who continue to belittle me. Don't get too high on your horse.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

> I do not ignore the facts


You just refuse to give them any credit when they don't follow your logic.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

> Many a time and person have I won arguments with people on these boards


Only in your mind.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

> You may call my arguments impossible but I find many of yours unreasonable. Thus far you have trounced me twice, once on the abortion issue and once regarding said "sleeper cells". The former was due to my lack of a hard stance on the issue, and the loss of a website which I had found that summed up the argument better than I could. The latter is thanks to my skimming of a site. Many a time and person have I won arguments with people on these boards, mostly those who continue to belittle me. Don't get too high on your horse.


 :bop:  That's funny!


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