# Hand Signals



## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Well since the weather has warmed a bit this week I have gotten my 2 yr old lab out training again. This year I would like to teach her hand signals. I have been working on "Back" from the "heal" position and she is doing that out to about 100yds on a soccer field.

So once she has "Back" from the heal position mastered should I switch to training on "over" when she is 20yds in front of me or should I Work her on "back" when she is 20yds in front of me. What will be easier for her to grasp?

I do have her doing the wagon wheel pretty consitently. I throw 8 bumpers in a circle around me. Usually only 1/8 she will bring back the wrong bumper(usually one to the left of the one I want her to get).

One last question. I have her heal on my left. I know how to postion my leg when I am giving her the line so she can't look to the right but how keep them from looking to the left. I.E. if I have 2 bumpers out 20 yds apart and I want her to get the one on the right but when she looks downfield she spots the one on the left first how do I get her focus off of the wrong dummy? Vis-versa If I want her to get the dummy on the left and she spots the one on the right first I know how to position my leg so she can't see the dummy on the right. I then realign her and "back" she goes to the dummy on the left.

I don't know if that made any sense to you but hopefully it did. Thanks in advance.


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

If you haven't bought a couple of books you really should. They are way more detailed by people who are way better at this than 99% of the people on here. A couple of good ones are:

Ten Minute Retriever by John & Amy Dahl
Training Retrievers to Handle by DL Walters (NOT Wolters)
Smartwork 1 and 2 by Evan Graham

All are available at www.lcsupply.com or gundogsupply or dogs afield

To teach hand signals it starts with 3 handed casting.

Start with dog 5' in front of you, facing you with a check cord on. Throw a bumper to the left, pause, then cast with the over and the command. Repeat, then teach the right. Then throw over the head. These should all be short so the dog is still under control of the check cord. After a couple days, then move to having 3 bumpers at each position. Throw to a pile then cast to that pile. Once that is going well eliminate throwing to a pile and just cast. Corrections should be very mild, no, and prevent from getting the wrong dummy with the check cord. If you are having trouble, simplify.

As far as getting the dog not looking to the left, run the wagon wheel drill with a check cord. Keep patting your leg and make sure your dog is looking at the right one before you send. If he goes left stop with the cord before he gets the wrong one and call back.

That is the very very short and dirty version. Which is why I suggest you get one book and better yet all of them. They will give you much more information and pictures to boot.

Good luck.

Brian


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

I have read the 10 min retriever which was a very good book. I just use this forum to ask questions about the stupid little things they don't really talk about in the book. Thanks for the condensed version. That should help greatly. Now I just need to figure out who I borrowed that book to so i can get it back to refresh my memory.


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

Good deal.

The Walters book although older has excellent diagrams of drills to help with handling.

When you get a little farther along ask about "walking baseball". It is a great drill that you can use for the life of your dog that is limited only by your imagination. I'll try to explain it then.

Brian


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Jungda99 said:


> I don't know if that made any sense to you but hopefully it did. Thanks in advance.





> So once she has "Back" from the heal position mastered should I switch to training on "over" when she is 20yds in front of me or should I Work her on "back" when she is 20yds in front of me. What will be easier for her to grasp?


No, work her on the straight overhand back first so she doesn't get confused. One thing at a time. As another poster said, sit her about 5 yards in front of you, check cord on, facing you. Tell her "sit" or blow the whistle, then throw a bumper to the pile 10-20 yards straight behind her and when she looks at you, step towards her and tell her "back". She may try to walk in towards you. Tell her sit, throw another bumper back, and tell her "back" again. If she still won't go, turn her around at heel and send her straight back. This is the last time you'll do this. Now sit her again facing you and try the same thing again. She should go. When she is doing this well, don't throw a bumper, just sit her facing you, raise your hand, step towards her to kind of intimidate her, and at the same time, command "back". If she doesn't go, again step towards her and command back. Keep at it until she goes. At no time hurt her, this is a confidence building drill and dogs love it.



> One last question. I have her heal on my left. I know how to postion my leg when I am giving her the line so she can't look to the right but how keep them from looking to the left. I.E. if I have 2 bumpers out 20 yds apart and I want her to get the one on the right but when she looks downfield she spots the one on the left first how do I get her focus off of the wrong dummy? Vis-versa If I want her to get the dummy on the left and she spots the one on the right first I know how to position my leg so she can't see the dummy on the right. I then realign her and "back" she goes to the dummy on the left.


It sounds like you haven't taught her heeling drills? This is a drill, independent of the wheel, where the dog is taught to respond and mirror your every move. It is taught with a heeling stick. Sit her next to you at heel. Without moving forward or back, turn to the left. Reach around the front of her and tap her back hip telling her "heel" until she moves left and re-aligns with you. Spin to the right and give short jerks on the lead until she follows you and re-aligns to the right. Now step slowly back, tell her heel, and tap the front of her chest until she moves back with you. Step ahead and give short jerks until she moves ahead with you.

Now you're ready for the wheel (when she does this perfectly and follows your every move). Now when you line her up on a bumper, put your hand out over her nose, tell her "dead bird" and command back when she is looking down your hand. Watch her head. If she looks right or left, say NO, take a small step in the direction of the bumper and try again. When she is riveted down your hand, say "good" and command "back". Never let her go for the wrong bumper. Call her back, take a step toward the correct bumper, and try again. Dogs love this drill once they get it.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

GH explain to them how to make heeling stick.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks Bobm. You don't have to invest a lot in a heeling stick. What a heeling stick does is to give a dog a visual point at which it heels. I used to (and still do) simply take the limber wand a bicycle flag is mounted on, cut it in half, and that gives me two "sticks". I then sand and round both ends so there is no chance of cutting the dog. On the end you hold, I slip on a piece of thick automotive hosing so it doesn't slip out of my hand. When the dog is first learning to heel, instead of jerking them around on a leash, just keep the heeling stick angled across the front of your knees, right to left. This gives the dog a visual barrier. If he tries to get ahead, tap his chest and give a short jerk back with the lead. Don't keep doing this, you don't want him to rely on the lead. Soon, just tap his chest and command "heel" is he forges ahead. For sit, stop, reach behind your back with the stick and slap his butt. If you reach across him from the front, you'll flare the dog. To carry it while not in use, stick it straight down into the back of your pants, handle pointed up over your right shoulder. That's it.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Thank you I've never used one but it sounds like a great idea.

I told you guys he has a lot of knowledge to tap into :beer:


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Bobm said:


> Thank you I've never used one but it sounds like a great idea.
> 
> I told you guys he has a lot of knowledge to tap into :beer:


I am going to make one tonight. I have a few of the markers they use to mark fire hydrants. I am going to cut one of those down and give it a shot. Thanks for the info


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## CDK (Aug 1, 2005)

Hey GH,

I've been told by a few people to never use the word "NO", because there are some HT judges that will drop you if you use it. They say to use leave it or something other then no. Seems like a stupid rule to me as long as you don't use it to intimidate the dog. Have you ever heard of that?


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

"No" is forbidden in *ALL *hunt tests, by *ALL *judges.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

CDK said:


> Hey GH,
> 
> I've been told by a few people to never use the word "NO", because there are some HT judges that will drop you if you use it. They say to use leave it or something other then no. Seems like a stupid rule to me as long as you don't use it to intimidate the dog. Have you ever heard of that?


I never ran Ht's, only AKC trials. There it is perfectly permissable to say no. I can't possibly imagine why anyone would object to this, especially in a hunt test.


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

> I never ran Ht's, only AKC trials


Trust somebody who *has* run hunt tests.....don't say "no".

You and Fido will be going home shortly after minus your entry fee.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

I believe you tumblebuck, just don't see how they can do it. I argued an AKC judge into the ground on this once. The rules say you can't intimidate a dog. He said NO was intimidation. I told him NO was no different than telling a dog BACK, FETCH, HERE, WATER, etc. They are all words of intimidation as much as NO is. This was after the trial and in the end he gave in and never called another handler on it.


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

Just as you said, it is considered intimidation. I'm not sure where it came from and don't agree with the ruling either. It doesn't explicity say you can't say "no" in the rule book. I just know you can't use the "n" word.


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

HRC and NAHRA don't care about "no"


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