# training collers



## riverview (Sep 1, 2009)

I am just wondering how many people on here that hunt there dogs alot use training collers (shock collers) while hunting. The reason i am asking is most hunting shows on tv and alot of pictures posted here and other sites it seems all the dogs have collers on. I dont own a coller Tried one 10 years ago but while hunting pheasants on my lab for chaseing hens. my lab just ingnored it (very high pain tolerance and super high drive) so i went back to the lead and choke lead. Im not looking for a argument about collers im just wondering if everyody uses them.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Everyone that I know that has a dog worth anything uses one.

10 years ago and now in terms of technology in collars is about like comparing the versatility of the first automobiles to todays 2010 models. Also, your training method was entirely wrong back then. You were going at it with a burn and learn mentality. Today, the use of an e-collar is about identical to that of a check cord and choke chain. Saying a command, then applying a method of pressure such as the choke chain but now we have highly variable options in e-collars. Almost exactly the same thing.

Some people ask why we can be so cruel to our dogs by having them wear an e-collar and using it on them... well, most all of these people are using pinch or choke collars or some kind of weird arse harness to get them to heal... same exact thing, just different kind of physical pressure.


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## riverview (Sep 1, 2009)

So chaws you are saying all good dogs need a collar?? That is like saying every dog needs to be force fetched.. I find that hard to believe. I fully understand the advances in the collars. and the advantages of useing them properly. i was wondering if everybody uses them thanks for the reply.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

riverview said:


> So chaws you are saying all good dogs need a collar?? That is like saying every dog needs to be force fetched.. I find that hard to believe. I fully understand the advances in the collars. and the advantages of useing them properly. i was wondering if everybody uses them thanks for the reply.


Basically what I meant by my comment was that most people don't have the knowledge and know how and time to slowly move a dog along through an Amish training method.

Based on our previous discussions you feel that your so called british labs are the end all and be all of labs and you've fallen prey to the hype to the point of not testing your dogs and breeding them because you feel they're free from any hereditary problems because of their heritage.

Feel as you wish and I will feel as I wish, however with using an e-collar, I feel my dogs are able to be successful much easier than a dog not using an e-collar because of timely and very humane methods of reinforcement and corrections. Dogs don't come out of the womb willing to comply with every command you teach them.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

riverview said:


> So chaws you are saying all good dogs need a collar?? That is like saying every dog needs to be force fetched.. I find that hard to believe. I fully understand the advances in the collars. and the advantages of useing them properly. i was wondering if everybody uses them thanks for the reply.


And yes, my personal stand point of force fetching is that all dogs that I hunt and campaign in tests should and will be force fetched. Forcing on a command of fetch is far much more than just having them pick something up off the ground when they're commanded to do so.

Most people have this thought that dogs are only given physical pressure when training, trialing or hunting when in fact the mental pressure of them trying to do what's right is such a greater influence than anything.


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## riverview (Sep 1, 2009)

I am new to this site and thought it was a good question. For the record i don't think British labs are the best dog out there. I like the British labs but they aren't for everybody. Obviously you know a whole lot more about dogs than I do. I don't hunt test or field trial so I don't require my trained dogs to be as finished to those standards. But I like and appreciate the guys that do field trial and hunt test without them we wouldn't have the dogs we do today. I have been doing this (hunting and training dogs for 30 years) but I am not exposed to the latest and greatest methods and tools. I have noticed in the last 10 years I see collars more often than not. That is why I asked the question. And per my emails to you troy I stated that this was an accidental breeding. But thanks for bringing up how unhealthy my dogs are in an open forum. You have a great day.


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## riverview (Sep 1, 2009)

And troy I do understand mental pressure on a dog. My male british I had to go slow with dureing the first year because he doesnt take it well. I went slow and i have the sweetest bird dog with more drive and desire than most. true he would have got tossed off a pro truck after the first day but with time and training with affection he came along great.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

To answer your question, I would say of all the dogs I train, hunt and campain with it is very close to 100% of the dogs are "collar" dogs. With the advances in training programs and the advances in collars I see no reason, not to have a collar trained dog.

Not saying it is for every one just saying in sensible hands, the modern E-collar is by far the most humane and reliable way to correct a dog if conditioned properly.

i really don't think collars have changed much in the last 10 years, 15 yes but I still have a TT classic 70 that I collar conditioned my 9 year old with, and still use as a back up.

Id'e much rather give a whistle "nick" whistle for a sloppy sit, than run out there for a face to face confrontation, although sometimes a little hands on correction never hurts, either.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

riverview said:


> But thanks for bringing up how unhealthy my dogs are in an open forum.


Never did I slander your dogs by stating that they're unhealthy. I offered you advice for two tests that could be done very easily with cheek swabs to check for EIC and CNM for a very minimal cost and only takes about 2 weeks for the results, of which you declined.


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## Hockeyhunter99 (Oct 11, 2007)

i don't want to get in the middle of such a good arguement on here (yet another) but to answer your question. I have trained dogs with and without an e-collar and i find that most dogs can and will respond better to an instantaneous correction than with running up and "man handling" it. dogs have a very short attention span and studies have shown that corrections need to happen within 1.5 seconds to make it effective. true that dogs have been trained for YEARS before the invention of the e-collar but the difference is time. many people have great dogs on hand commands that was reinforced with physicality but it takes many years of solid training to do this. in this day and age you do not find many people that have that kind of time and drive. the introduction to the e-collar (if done properly) can and will shorten your training time. there are many videos and books on the proper use. i have a GSP that i started training over the past summer ( 8mo beautiful female, BTW) she is at the same training point at 8 mo. that my hand trained dog was at 1 1/2 years. i was not a believer in the e-collar method before this but i found a great deal on one and my buddies use them. since then, i have been a believer that they work well (when used correctly). i hope this answers your question and have a great day.


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## riverview (Sep 1, 2009)

I am not looking to argue, im new here. I fully agree on training with them, I believe everything you say is true. I train with a 40 foot lead but i dont put it on them every time the dogs are hunting after they are trained.

my dogs arent perfect all the time, i dont expect that they ever will be. I guess my question should have been after a dog is finished (3 years) do you still need the collar in hunting situaton


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## gundogguru (Oct 7, 2003)

I guess I made somebody mad they deleted my post. Thanks


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

riverview said:


> I guess my question should have been after a dog is finished (3 years) do you still need the collar in hunting situaton


Yes. How else do you make remote corrections? "Finished" dogs are not robots and will still make mistakes.


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## Hockeyhunter99 (Oct 11, 2007)

i know that old dogs can learn new tricks if taught differently. your dog hunts, obviously, but if there are things you want to correct or fine tune, the e-collar would help. the 40ft cord can do only so much for attitude adjustment, or immediate adjustment. the e-collar can and will allow your dog to move its range farther out and allow it to do what it is suppose to when it is not stuck at the end of a cord. e-collars don't tangle or are as hard on the handler. i also have a MinPin (not a hunter,  ) and we have trained a 8 year old dog to listen better and be a better dog. if it can help a small old dog it can easilly help your three year old dog. i must stress -if used properly-


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## brittanypoint (Feb 15, 2009)

Everyone that I know that has a dog worth anything uses one.



> Please. My dog listens very well to whistle commands. I have never placed a shock collar on him. No reason to. I put the time into the pup and have no intent to place one on any of my dogs. E-collars are great for stubborn dogs but I dont think every dog needs one.
> 
> Its a personal preference. My dog is well behaved and does his job. He points whatever I am hunting. If you insist on placing one on your dog then that is your way. You saying that my dog is not worth anything is a slap in the face of me and everyone else who use the whistle commands.
> 
> ...


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## brittanypoint (Feb 15, 2009)

Everyone that I know that has a dog worth anything uses one.



> Please. My dog listens very well to whistle commands. I have never placed a shock collar on him. No reason to. I put the time into the pup and have no intent to place one on any of my dogs. E-collars are great for stubborn dogs but I dont think every dog needs one.
> 
> Its a personal preference. My dog is well behaved and does his job. He points whatever I am hunting. If you insist on placing one on your dog then that is your way. You saying that my dog is not worth anything is a slap in the face of me and everyone else who use the whistle commands.
> 
> ...


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## labman63 (Aug 17, 2009)

My dogs don't hunt or train without one on. I might go all yr and not use it more than an occasional sit correction...but ask yourself this. Can you stop your dog if it jumps game and heads for a road? Can you keep your dog away from another hunters dog at the ramp or hunting field. Can you pull you male away from a female in heat with your voice? Just not worth the chance to me.


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## riverview (Sep 1, 2009)

I an answer yes to all of those questions ut the last one then i would just take my lead out.
this is my last post on this topic i can see where this is going
basicly i wanted to know if trained with a collar if they need it all the time. can your dogs tell when they dont have a collar on?
everybody have a good hunting season mn grouse this weekend.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

> basicly i wanted to know if trained with a collar if they need it all the time. can your dogs tell when they dont have a collar on?


I don't know if they need it all the time, but yes they do have it on all the time while training and hunting. i have it on them while hunting just in case I need a timely correction, and for safty purposes. Do I put the collar on my 9 year old hunting dog every training session "NO" I figure she's paid her dues, but she does wear it while hunting. She knows when i get the collar out it's time to work and more less jumps into it, it's not a negetive thing to her.

The collar debate will never go away, if you chose to train and hunt with out it, thats fine with me, to each there own. If used and conditioning is done properly that 40 foot check cord you use, will become a 400 yard check cord,........... when you need it........... 8)


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

> On top of that there are too many idiots with good dogs who shock the hell out of them for no reason other than they stepped one too many times or dropped a bird two feet too soon.
> 
> I dont think that e-collars make a good dog. I think a good handler and person dedicated to training and loving the dog makes a good dog


I agree with both those comments, but I still think in the right hands a collar conditioned dog will respond and understand corrections in the field better than a non collar dog...............


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## riverview (Sep 1, 2009)

BROWNDOG said:


> > On top of that there are too many idiots with good dogs who shock the hell out of them for no reason other than they stepped one too many times or dropped a bird two feet too soon.
> >
> > I dont think that e-collars make a good dog. I think a good handler and person dedicated to training and loving the dog makes a good dog
> 
> ...


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

whose comment are those.they arent mine ..

Those were

"brittanypoint"


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