# Hot load for 45-70



## hogcaller

What is a good hot load for 300 gr 45-70? I was looking for something above 2000 fps.


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## darkgael

What kind of rifle are you loading for? 
At that velocity and bullet weight, you'll need a modern firearm. 
The Sierra manual will give you data for the 300gr. to velocities of 2200 fps in a Marlin lever gun or stronger action.
Pete


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## hogcaller

I've got a Marlin 1895 with a 22" barrel. The manuals that I have only go up to around 2000 fps. I have heard that I can get more velocity out of this round and I was wondering if anyone knew how to do it. I will be shooting 300 gr. hornady interlock hollow points.

Thanks in advance!


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## darkgael

As I noted, the Sierra manual (edition V) will give you loads to 2200fps for the 300gr. JHP in the Marlin 1895 (and Rugers/siamese bolt guns). Top loads use H4198, Benchmark, H335. If you are willing to stay at 2100fps., the powder choices are more varied.

Pete


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## hogcaller

Thanks


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## Plainsman

Although some manuals will show beyond 2000 fps, many don't because at that velocity all the 300 gr hollowpoints that I have shot blow apart even on small animals. I shoot the 300 gr Hornady interlock for deer, but hold the velocity down to 1900 fps. 
If you don't mind suggestions I would say go to a 405 gr soft point, or quality cast. That also can be pushed. It will give you a heck of a lot more penetration on something as large as hogs. I have a Browning copy of the Winchester 1885 falling block. The action I think is very close to the Ruger number 1. I push a 405 gr Cast all the way to 2200 fps. I wouldn't recommend that in the Marlin. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook pushes a 405 gr cast to 1828 fps in the Marlin. That load would be the Hammer of Thor on hogs.


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## hogcaller

Plainsman said:


> Although some manuals will show beyond 2000 fps, many don't because at that velocity all the 300 gr hollowpoints that I have shot blow apart even on small animals. I shoot the 300 gr Hornady interlock for deer, but hold the velocity down to 1900 fps.
> If you don't mind suggestions I would say go to a 405 gr soft point, or quality cast. That also can be pushed. It will give you a heck of a lot more penetration on something as large as hogs. I have a Browning copy of the Winchester 1885 falling block. The action I think is very close to the Ruger number 1. I push a 405 gr Cast all the way to 2200 fps. I wouldn't recommend that in the Marlin. The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook pushes a 405 gr cast to 1828 fps in the Marlin. That load would be the Hammer of Thor on hogs.


WOW! The 405 going 2200 would really knock the snot out of a hog! That is a big bullet with some steam behind it. I have talked with some buddies about using the 350 grain soft points from Hornady, but I don't know. I really like the HPs. I shot a 220 lb boar last month. The bullet really thumped him and, like you said, I didn't get an exit wound. I did find the bullet on the other side, just inside the hide. It mushroomed pretty good. Oh yeah, it was a shoulder shot. Who makes a good hard cast bullet in your opinion?

Thanks.


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## Plainsman

In the past I used BullX. They were great bullets, but I guess the company went out of business. I still have 500 left, but I have been switching and trying a lot of other brands. I found another that I like. They are called Laser-Cast by Oregon Trails. They are as hard as the old BullX and shoot very well out of my 44 mag revolvers and Marlin rifle. The 405 gr also shoots well out of my Browning. I have not pushed this bullet fast out of the 45/70 yet, only about 2000 fps. 
Laser-Cast actually uses a small amount of silver in their alloy. I guess that's so you can play Lone Ranger, or shoot Vampires.  Actually they use it to harden the bullet, and get a superior metal flow when casting. They are a match grade bullet.


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## darkgael

As noted, those hot 405 loads are not for your Marlin. You need an action like the Browning or the Ruger #1/3.
Oregon bullets - great.
Also great - but more $$ - are Cast Performance bullets:
http://www.castperformance.com/Categori ... &total=105


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## iwantabuggy

I've never tried a 300gr bullet in my 1895GS (18.5 inch barrel). I've been using 350gr Hornady FN. I get 1855fps when I put it on top of 59gr of Varget. When I tried 60gr they were clearly "too hot". With a 22 inch barrel, and a hot load of Varget (somewhere in the neighborhood of 63gr, please work up slowly) , I think you might approach that velocity. I am not sure why you would want to push the envelope too much, though. You are not going to get a very good trajectory out of a 45-70 no matter what you do. I'd be more inclined to follow Plainsman's advice. Go with a heavier bullet. It won't matter too much what the velocity is since the trajectory of a football might be flatter, but with the heavier bullet (on a hot load), you will get more momentum and therefore more penetration.[/i]


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## ruger1

Let me tell you guys something. When you pull the trigger on that 405 gr at 2200 fps, you know it. I think I've got 2 rounds missing out of that box. I really don't feel the need to shoot anymore of those.

I load the 350 gr around 2100 fps. It levels deer plenty good.


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## Komrowski

When pushing those velocities, you need good performance out of a bullet. And a strong Constitution yourself. I like them slower but in my younger years would love to do what you guys are, its nice to see you guys enjoying the hammering. Try some of these they are great... www.hotshotbullets.com I know cause i make them.


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## Tyrant

or sell the 45-70 and pick up a 450 and welcome the advantage of chamber PSI...

Norm


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## heelerman

Greetings,
A load much touted by an old man I know is 30gr of 3031 behind a 500gr jacketed slug. Out of my 1895 w/16 1/4' bbl vel. is about 1800fps.
You might think that the recoil is near beastial, but no.
In fact, once you peel your top lip from your forhead and your eyes return to the front and focus, its hardley noticable........


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## darkgael

With all due respect....please explain that 500gr bullet at 1800fps with a charge of 30grs. of 3031. Is that entry correct?
I ask because the Speer manual shows .458 Win magnum loads using the 500gr slug and 67 grains of 3031 getting 1944fps from a 24" barrel. That would equate to about 1800fps (maybe) in a 16 1/4" barrel.
The same manual shows a 400gr bullet in a 45-70 getting 1567fps from a 22" barrel using 50grains of 3031 (a Ruger #1 load)
Cowboy Action loads for a 500gr bullet use 38 grs of 3031 and get 1280fps.
How can you shoot a heavier bullet with way less powder and get way MORE velocity from a way shorter barrel?
Pete


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## heelerman

Pete,
I was told that was the velocity I was getting. I did not read the Crony myself and this was some twenty years back. If I spoke out of school. Sorry. In fact, I am mostly a shotgun reloader. I am just now fixin' to but a Lee classic turret press for centerfire. Just from what I am finding out center fire is far more involved than shotgun. I wish someone out there was set up for Lee so I could find out how much other equipment I needed. for instance, from what I read the Lee powder scale is not grate.


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## iwantabuggy

Yeah, I think 30 gr might even be dangerously low. There would be so much space left in the case that the powder could start burning from both ends and cause the gun to blow up.

Anyone out there considering using that load should be very careful. All the data I can find shows that would be a veeeeery light loading. If you don't know it, excessively light loads can be as dangerous and excessively heavy loads.


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## heelerman

Thanks boys, You better count me an idiot! I think 20 years and faulty information led me to stray. So, let me retract and say thay whatever was in those loads was heap stiff. As I start stuffin' my own I will refer to the books, not to what some old crank told me!


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## darkgael

Heeler: I am set up for loading with Lee presses and dies. If I can answer any questions, let me know.
Pete


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## heelerman

Dark,
Thanks, I been lookin fer one such as you. Heres the deal. We are way the hell an gone up in the Gila NF in New Mexico. So, for the most part it is a mail order propisition. Although this weekend we will make the two hour drive to Las Crusas and I'll check in at Sportsmans Whorehouse.
I want to set myself up to load utilitarian loads for the following: .222 (Im not seeing Lee dies for triple duce can I use another makers dies in a Lee?) .223 30-30 .270 30-06 7mm mag 45-70and in pistol 38-357 44 sp-44 mag 41 mag and 45 acp and 45 LC. Can I load all pistol with the same dies? or do I need others? IE; will 38 die load 357?
I am thinking on the Lee classic turret. Should I buy the kit? I am not seeing good things about the Lee scale. Must I have a scale? should I buy another brand? Also I read the the poder measureing disks do not throw consistant charges. Do I need another brand of pwder measue? Do I need a powder trickler In short, What do I NEED to put out inexpencive, utility grade ammunition? I dont need to cut one ragged hole at 500 yds! Money for set up is not the issue. Availablity is. I just dont want to spend money badly and I want to keep the operation as simple as possible.


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## hogcaller

I am set up with mostly lee stuff. IYou can use other brands of dies with the lee presses. Yes, you can buy the 357 dies and they will load 38 sp.....same thing with the 44 mag. It will lad 44 sp also. You can either set the die at a different height or they make spacer rings that can do the trick. You will have to buy separate die sets for the 45 LC and the 45 acp. I use the lee scale and it isn't the greatest, but it will work....just make sure you zero it in before each loading session.

I hope this helps out!


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## darkgael

Heeler: I use a Lee scale and, cross-checking it with two other scales that I have, I find it quite accurate. Some folks find it a bit cumbersome to use; I don't. Yes, you do need a scale. Another option is an inexpensive digital jeweler's scale. They are widely available on the Net and on Ebay as a "buy it now". Make sure that it will measure in grains if you get one.
You will need loading manual; they are invaluable. I own almost all of them.
I own a Lee turret press and find it quite functional (I own ten presses - and use them all - five are Lee's). I do not use the Lee Disks. For pistol charges I use the Lee Micrometer measure (I'm not sure that it is called that but that's what it is). Works great for pistol charges. I use one of my other measures for rifle charges - Lee's Precision measure, Lyman, RCBS, Redding - depending on what cartridge.
Pete


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## DR45/70

:eyeroll: 
I use a load all the time that gives me 2450 average out of my CB with a 26" barrel. BE CAREFUL its not max but its close.
Hodgens H-4198 58 Gr ( max is 60 )
Hornidy, .458 # 4500 300 gr HP
CCI mag primers #210
Federal cases
and a heavy crimp with a lee crimper!

Hold on to your gun when you first try it it kicks a bit. uke:


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## Plainsman

DR45/70, I shot a deer yesterday with nearly the same load. I used IMR4198 for 2450 fps. I was using my 1885 High Wall with a tang peep. The doe was 258 yards and angled away. My shot was high and took her in the neck. I was surprised to see an exit wound. I guess velocity had slowed enough at that range, but still the performance was better than I had expected. 
I'm about to go out and skin right now. The head flops around like there is no vertebrae left. I see what actually happened shortly. 
By the way I just purchased the Saeco 300 gr mold. I shot about 50 rounds through that rifle so far loaded for 1900 fps. I don't have a 45 caliber Lewis lead remover, but a little Pro-Shot lead cleaning cloth was all that was required for the slight leading that I had. I used Lyman #2 alloy mix.


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## ruger1

Girlfriends first deer. She used my Ruger #1 45/70. Leveled that buck. I love not having to track a wounded deer.


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## Plainsman

> I'm about to go out and skin right now. The head flops around like there is no vertebrae left. I see what actually happened shortly.


I sure would not liked to have accidentally hit a ham with that round. About three inches of vertebrate are more like paste than fragments.


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## iwantabuggy

ruger1 said:


> Girlfriends first deer. She used my Ruger #1 45/70. Leveled that buck. I love not having to track a wounded deer.


You sure that is a buck? LOL. I'll bet he tastes great......


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## ruger1

iwantabuggy said:


> You sure that is a buck? LOL. I'll bet he tastes great......


It was her first deer ever. I told her to dump the first thing she sees. That and my deer camp is a meat camp. Can't eat horns. I save the horn hunting for my Iowa and Montana camps.


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## iwantabuggy

Yeah, Its cool.....No offense was intended. Just a friendly joke. That is just the smallest buck I ever saw. Like I said...Good eating.


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## ruger1

iwantabuggy said:


> Yeah, Its cool.....No offense was intended. Just a friendly joke. *That is just the smallest buck I ever saw*. Like I said...Good eating.


Really? We are just plauged with those up there. Many many many 1.5 year old deer look like that. That's one of the reasons we are a meat camp. You'll see some huge bodied deer with small basket racks. I saw a huge bodied 8 pointer last saturday. They just don't get big antlers up there.

We shot a lot of bucks like that. Thinking we are shooting does and then discover they are these small spikers.


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## iwantabuggy

Maybe I should re-phrase. That is the smallest buck I have ever seen where the bone was actually protruding through the hide. I have seen a few button bucks in my day. They sure eat good.


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