# Minnesotans' should be proud



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Read this Wall Street Journal piece carefully :eyeroll:

See a sample reprint in PDF format. Order a reprint of this article now REVIEW & OUTLOOK JANUARY 5, 2009, 4:42 A.M. ET

*Funny Business in Minnesota In which every dubious ruling seems to help Al Franken.*

Strange things keep happening in Minnesota, where the disputed recount in the Senate race between Norm Coleman and Al Franken may be nearing a dubious outcome. Thanks to the machinations of Democratic Secretary of State Mark Ritchie and a meek state Canvassing Board, Mr. Franken may emerge as an illegitimate victor.

APMr. Franken started the recount 215 votes behind Senator Coleman, but he now claims a 225-vote lead and suddenly the man who was insisting on "counting every vote" wants to shut the process down. He's getting help from Mr. Ritchie and his four fellow Canvassing Board members, who have delivered inconsistent rulings and are ignoring glaring problems with the tallies.
*Under Minnesota law, election officials are required to make a duplicate ballot if the original is damaged during Election Night counting. Officials are supposed to mark these as "duplicate" and segregate the original ballots. But it appears some officials may have failed to mark ballots as duplicates, which are now being counted in addition to the originals. This helps explain why more than 25 precincts now have more ballots than voters who signed in to vote. By some estimates this double counting has yielded Mr. Franken an additional 80 to 100 votes.*This disenfranchises Minnesotans whose vote counted only once. And one Canvassing Board member, State Supreme Court Justice G. Barry Anderson, has acknowledged that "very likely there was a double counting." Yet the board insists that it lacks the authority to question local officials and it is merely adding the inflated numbers to the totals.
In other cases, the board has been flagrantly inconsistent. Last month, Mr. Franken's campaign charged that one Hennepin County (Minneapolis) precinct had "lost" 133 votes, since the hand recount showed fewer ballots than machine votes recorded on Election Night. Though there is no proof to this missing vote charge -- officials may have accidentally run the ballots through the machine twice on Election Night -- the Canvassing Board chose to go with the Election Night total, rather than the actual number of ballots in the recount. That decision gave Mr. Franken a gain of 46 votes.

Meanwhile, a *Ramsey County precinct ended up with 177 more ballots than there were recorded votes on Election Night. In that case, the board decided to go with the extra ballots, rather than the Election Night total, even though the county is now showing more ballots than voters in the precinct. This gave Mr. Franken a net gain of 37 votes, which means he's benefited both ways from the board's inconsistency*.

And then there are the absentee ballots. The Franken campaign initially howled that some absentee votes had been erroneously rejected by local officials. Counties were supposed to review their absentees and create a list of those they believed were mistakenly rejected. Many Franken-leaning counties did so, submitting 1,350 ballots to include in the results. But many Coleman-leaning counties have yet to complete a re-examination. Despite this lack of uniformity, and though the state Supreme Court has yet to rule on a Coleman request to standardize this absentee review, Mr. Ritchie's office nonetheless plowed through the incomplete pile of 1,350 absentees this weekend, padding Mr. Franken's edge by a further 176 votes.

- Judd GreggBoth campaigns have also suggested that Mr. Ritchie's office made mistakes in tabulating votes that had been challenged by either of the campaigns. And the Canvassing Board appears to have applied inconsistent standards in how it decided some of these challenged votes -- in ways that, again on net, have favored Mr. Franken.
The question is how the board can certify a fair and accurate election result given these multiple recount problems. Yet that is precisely what the five members seem prepared to do when they meet today. Some members seem to have concluded that because one of the candidates will challenge the result in any event, why not get on with it and leave it to the courts? Mr. Coleman will certainly have grounds to contest the result in court, but he'll be at a disadvantage given that courts are understandably reluctant to overrule a certified outcome.
Meanwhile, Minnesota's other Senator, Amy Klobuchar, is already saying her fellow Democrats should seat Mr. Franken when the 111th Congress begins this week if the Canvassing Board certifies him as the winner. 
*This contradicts Minnesota law, which says the state cannot award a certificate of election if one party contests the results. 

Ms. Klobuchar is trying to create the public perception of a fait accompli, all the better to make Mr. Coleman look like a sore loser and build pressure on him to drop his legal challenge despite the funny recount business.

Minnesotans like to think that their state isn't like New Jersey or Louisiana, and typically it isn't. But we can't recall a similar recount involving optical scanning machines that has changed so many votes, and in which nearly every crucial decision worked to the advantage of the same candidate. 
The Coleman campaign clearly misjudged the politics here, and the apparent willingness of a partisan like Mr. Ritchie to help his preferred candidate, Mr. Franken. If the Canvassing Board certifies Mr. Franken as the winner based on the current count, it will be anointing a tainted and undeserving Senator.*


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Minnesota is going to be left id a huge mess either way. I say we revote.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Ms. Klobuchar is trying to create the public perception of a fait accompli, all the better to make Mr. Coleman look like a sore loser and build pressure on him to drop his legal challenge despite the funny recount business.


Some people simply have no shame. What ever happened to dignity? They keep saying Bush stole the election in Florida, but the truth is I have only seen liberals cheat in an election. Dead people in Chicago voting for Kennedy is where my memory begins on this fraud. The whole nation knows the truth, but the liberals in Minnesota evidently don't possess the integrity to do the right thing. :eyeroll:


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Minnesota wanted a clown to represent them; looks like they got one. :roll:


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## cgreeny (Apr 21, 2004)

Sasha and Abby said:


> Minnesota wanted a clown to represent them; looks like they got one. :roll:


Couldn't have said anything different.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

To let you know.....they both were clowns.

Coleman was one of the main pushers in suing ND about the NR liscense....he forced Pawlenty's hand in that issue.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Chuck Smith said:


> To let you know.....they both were clowns.
> 
> Coleman was one of the main pushers in suing ND about the NR liscense....he forced Pawlenty's hand in that issue.


Now you have me feeling sorry for Minnesota sportsmen. No choice has got to be the pits. Oh, well, I guess we all got stuck with no choice for president. Dumb and dumber.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

At least the sales tax issue got passed for outdoors.....I hope they just use it for the right things.....and not making better parking lots at the wildlife area's.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

MN, first we have Jesse Ventura, Amy Klobacher, and no Al Franken, MN SUCKS.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

> Minnesota is going to be left id a huge mess either way. I say we revote


BL is on to something here. This would prove the need for run-off elections.



> Some people simply have no shame. What ever happened to dignity? They keep saying Bush stole the election in Florida, but the truth is I have only seen liberals cheat in an election. Dead people in Chicago voting for Kennedy is where my memory begins on this fraud. The whole nation knows the truth, but the liberals in Minnesota evidently don't possess the integrity to do the right thing.


Give me a break  Neither of these two pricks has any shame. This is the ultimate shame in elections. It will be interesting to see what the total price tag is on these two hosers.

I seem to remember six weeks ago Norm said that Franken should have conceded. Now the shoe is on other foot, why isn't Norm conceding? There was some MN Supreme Court ruling early in this recount where the two conservative MN justices voted against Norm also, didn't see that in the report.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

MN will be a mess no matter what. Neither canidate is good. Coleman takes alot of vacations, and Franken doesn't pay his workers.

Revote.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

TK33 said:


> I seem to remember six weeks ago Norm said that Franken should have conceded. Now the shoe is on other foot, why isn't Norm conceding?


 

Did you read the article?

Here, ill refresh your memory.



Bobm said:


> Meanwhile, a *Ramsey County precinct ended up with 177 more ballots than there were recorded votes on Election Night. In that case, the board decided to go with the extra ballots, rather than the Election Night total, even though the county is now showing more ballots than voters in the precinct. This gave Mr. Franken a net gain of 37 votes, which means he's benefited both ways from the board's inconsistency*.


*177 MORE ballots than what were recorded on election night* 
So 177 fraudulent ballots.........and you wonder why he's not conceding. Would you concede?


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Oh, I see. :roll:

When the irregularities are in Norm's favor, then a concession is necessary, but when they are not Norm should sue. I don't like Franken anymore than anyone else, but he is a big step up from Norm.










Need I say more?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

TK33 said:


> Oh, I see. :roll:
> 
> When the irregularities are in Norm's favor, then a concession is necessary, but when they are not Norm should sue. I don't like Franken anymore than anyone else, but he is a big step up from Norm.


If I recall there were no "irregularities" in the first count, it was just "close" in which MN state law REQUIRES a recount if its withing X number of votes.

Now 177 EXTRA ballots would be a "irregularity".


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

You know they will steal every election they can until they get a filibuster-proof supermajority.

We knew this going in. But we let the left pick our candidate, then we let them steal (manipulate/manufacture) as many votes as they needed.

ACORN is the tool. If anybody can think of a way to stop ACORN I'd like to know how. As long as they are left to do what they do, we will never win again.

By the time O "leaves office" in 8 years, the damage will have been done.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> When the irregularities are in Norm's favor, then a concession is necessary, but when they are not Norm should sue. I don't like Franken anymore than anyone else, but he is a big step up from Norm.


TK33 I always seen you as middle of the road, but that statement is partisan, or you gave it very little thought. Also the picture of Coleman with Bush doesn't prove anything other than you have bought into the hate Bush agenda.

I guess I think differently about the Coleman/Franken thing. Coleman may be no good, but you can't do much worse than Franken. Watching him on TV he is just such an arrogant person, and the way he is trying to steal the election makes him contemptible. If I knew nothing of Franken the dishonesty shown after the election is all the evidence I need to make a personal judgment of his fitness to represent anyone.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> Chuck Smith said:
> 
> 
> > To let you know.....they both were clowns.
> ...


Only 2 more weeks and the real dumb and dumber are leaving office. :beer:

Don't know much about either Coleman or Franken.So I don't have an opinion on either one.But whatever is the final result ,there will be a winner declared.Just like Bush and Gore in florida.You don't have to like it.....but it is what it is.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ken, and here I thought you were just going to say shaaaazaaaam.


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2009)

Al Franken is a big fat liar!


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

If Franken ultimately wins, will he and George Soros be on some sort of "rotation", and take turns sitting in the seat? 

Could someone please explain to me why it costs millions of dollars to "monitor" a recount?


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

> TK33 I always seen you as middle of the road, but that statement is partisan, or you gave it very little thought. Also the picture of Coleman with Bush doesn't prove anything other than you have bought into the hate Bush agenda


I was into the hate Bush agenda long before Franken and Coleman. I won't get into Bush, that has been overdone. I will admit I voted for him twice, hence the dislike.

Norm Coleman is a weasel, and that might be giving him too much credit. Read the Fargo Forum today, there is another fine example of his two-faced stance throughout this election. I could see how that picture was considered partisan, it should be seen as a shot at Norm's competance.



> If I recall there were no "irregularities" in the first count, it was just "close" in which MN state law REQUIRES a recount if its withing X number of votes.


There were in fact issues in Hennepin and Ramsey counties. They were on the 10pm news on election night. It doesn't take Sean Hannity or Keith Olbermann to tell you that the numbers from those two counties shouldn't have been where they were. Either way this election had sour grapes written all over it.

The sad thing here is that flat broke Minnesota is being forced to waste money they frankly don't have to support the causes of two imbicils.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I say they duel at five paces with heavy explosives.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

:beer:


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## tigerdog (Jan 24, 2008)

Exactly what I suggested during a conversation today.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> I say they duel at five paces with heavy explosives.


OK.....shaaaazaaaam.......One of them would probably cheat and turn at the count of 3.

Golliiiiiiieeee....Best to you and your'en.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > I say they duel at five paces with heavy explosives.
> ...


Thankee and to yourn too. :beer:

My bet is they would both cheat, but with heavy explosives at five yards it won't be a problem.


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## Bgunit68 (Dec 26, 2006)

Plainsman said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> > .Best to you and your'en.
> ...


Are we morphing into Jeremiah Johnson? If so:

"Watch yer topknot, pilgrim"!

The two top movies ever: Jeremiah Johnson and Josey Whales. Sorry anytime I hear yourn I'm drawn to that movie. And thanks to this post I'll be driving my coworkers nuts with quote from both, although I may throw a few in from The Hunt for Red October just to change things up a bit.

Russians don't take a dump, son, without a plan.

You see way off base here. My doctors say I suffer from ADHD but they don't know what they are....oh look at the pretty cat!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

ADHD.....Attention Deficit Hyperactive ohhh look a shiny!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The two top movies ever: Jeremiah Johnson and Josey Whales.


Don't forget Quigly Down Under. Darn movie made me buy a Browning 1885 highwall in 45/70. I know , I know, but it's a poor man's Sharps. I have had it now for, say I have all those movies. Speaking movies, oh ya, Best Wishes to everyone on here and yorn.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Bgunit68 said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > KEN W said:
> ...


Nope....Gomer Pyle talking to Andy Taylor and "can I put my bullet in Andy?" Barney Fife.....the funniest character on TV.


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