# Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!



## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

The 22 center fires do require you to "get up close and use your skills". In doing so and using good judgment and shot placement they are an adequate caliber. If you don't like the caliber or your skill level does not allow you to do so then don't. I use a 260 Rem. or 300 WM myself but I will not tell someone they are wrong for using another adequate caliber. Also if you don't have the experience or the ability to shoot long range doesn't mean someone else can't. I'ts tiresome to read this kind of banter from the holier than though.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Realistically, a 22 is way too small. I'm not gonna tell people what to use, but common sense says 22's shouldn't be used for deer hunting.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Longshot

I have shot deer with nothing smaller than a 270 for the last 15 years. However, before I could afford a rifle I barrowed my fathers 22-250. Over the years I shot 11 deer with that rifle and never lost one. Why do people constantly think that only they would know how to use a 22 for deer and no one else should. Perhaps they think they couldn't do it, but again don't judge others by their inabilities. With today's bullets it is a different ball game. I still like my 300 Sendero but think a 22-250 with Bearclaw or a comparable bullet is deadly on deer. I recommended a 260 to a fellow that wanted something larger than his 22-250. He thought that gun damaged to much meat and kicked more than he liked. He went back to his 22-250 which he has never lost a deer with. I know people like headunter, and doublea (a fellow who posts on outfitter buddy) are sincere people, but I have run into so many that are simply looking for public admiration that I am really getting tired of it. Many of these people don't understand the damage they do when they divide sportsmen. There is nothing wrong with a 22 caliber in the competent hands of a careful hunter. I don't understand the opposition to it where it is legal. I suspect that people who complain about it really don't have personal experience. Just like people who think a crossbow shoots like a rifle and have never picked one up, or the child rearing experts who don't have any of their own.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

OneShotOneKill

Marine sniper? Anyway I am happy that you enjoy hunting that way, but I hope you understand that is not everyone's bag. I have shot deer from 5 to 30 yards with a bow. Not two or three but 40 or 50 deer with a bow. I have shot 20 to 100 yards with handguns and blackpowder rifles. Getting within 100 yards normally doesn't require much skill. Sometimes it does but most of the time the terrain will let you that close with little effort. I don't find much fun shooting a deer at 100 yards with a scope and a high power rifle. I have passed up nice deer at 400 to shoot smaller deer further away. A 500 yard shot is about as exciting as buying a burger at the grocery. Go to longranghunting.com these guys shoot deer to 2000 yards. One fellow shoots deer with a handgun to 1500 yards. It's a great site these people are ethical hunters, but like me find no sport in modern weapons at close range. I shoot long range because normal hunting lost it's challenge. I understand that most hunters shoot deer under 200 yards and that is great. I'm not angry with you, you simply give me the opportunity to voice my opinion. I say let people hunt in a manner that lets them enjoy the sport without condemnation by others who really don't know how that individual hunts or how ethical they are. Lets not trip over each other to be the first to complain about others. Hang together or hang alone. Hunt with whatever you enjoy everyone. If you pull a trigger or cast an arrow I am with you.


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Plainsman, I hope you don't think I'm out there to divide anybody. (no offense) Mabeye your letting me off the hook it seems. I reread your post a couple times.
I do find it a bit offensive, to think you may think I'm possibly wasting my time on any forum to gain public admiration, or whatever you called it. Not even. I call em as I see em. All they are is my opinions. You may disagree, Or you may think I'm trying to start a fight. All I post is what my reaction tells me to say. I will say however , I enjoy a good debate, no secret there (heh heh) And have no problem arguing with somebody. 
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, I appreciate you leaving me out of the " public admiration " category...I think?? But, just so you know, agree with me or not, I speak what I 'm thinking, and don't do it for anybody else, ever. On that note, Plainsman, I still think a 243 is a piss poor rifle for all around deer hunting. As well as a 30-30. I don't care how many deer they've killed since 1804. In this day in age there are better calibers available to the common man. So dammit, go buy one. Anyway, take her easy , and I'll buy you 2 beers. One for you and one for that guy who they call "Fireball" whom is still on my ****list. I'll talk to ya tomorrow mabeye., Headhunter


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Whoa, a 243 is plenty of firepower. We're talking about a 22 here.

To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure that a 22 is legal for deer hunting in ND.


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## stevepike (Sep 14, 2002)

They are talking about 22 centerfires' (which are legal in ND not sure about other states).


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Oh yeh....punched in the wrong caliber. 22 centerfires should be outlawed.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Hey headhunter good afternoon

Just got off work and found your post. Your right I am letting you off. I am because I can read what you write without feeling offended. We perhaps have different ideas about 22 cal rifles, but that's ok. When some people use the word ethical it just sets me off. We learn by association, and the people I know personally that want to always talk ethics are a pain in the behind. Mostly arrogant and I really don't like arrogance. That is why the way some people write compel me to defend the very people they attack. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. What gets me is when they write as if no one else has had any experience. I'm sure you have run into the type I am talking about - you know the people that think if you don't do it their way then you are doing it wrong. Maybe I took to many psychology classes and read through the lines to often. I let you off the hook because I read your posts and simply find an opinion not a "your stupid and I'm a genius attitude". Think about some of the violators you know ---- have you heard them preach ethics? I think many do it to throw law enforcement off, but I can tell you officers know this. Also, there are I am sure other sincere people out there that are truly concerned about humane hunting practices. Hats off to them, I simply don't like the politically correct, wimp out, appeasement types. I am bothered when people call themselves sportsmen instead of hunters. What's wrong with a hunter. That is why the politically correct have turned it on us and call hunting the blood sport. They have played the politically correct ball game a lot longer than us and we will lose if we appease them with a name change for hunters every ten years. Just like the wolf and the bear that the animal right people like to worship I am a hunter. Yup headhunter read my posts very careful it is not often I would disagree with you. As a matter of fact I look at people like you, Bobm, Dick Monson, and others as allies. Many others also, sorry, but can't think of their post names right off hand. I don't like defending hunting, lets mount an attack next election, how is that for a new subject. Later


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

What's going to be next to be outlaw for deer hunting. Will it be Archery? Next thing you know everyone will be saying the minimum caliber for deer sized game will be a 700 Nitro Express. Maybe nothing less than a 10 ga. with some new 5" mag shot shells for waterfowl. Gun manufacturers keep coming out with bigger and supposedly better and writers keep promoting them. Unfortunately too many people believe what they read without experience and repeat it to others. Lets be careful when we start to limit ourselves more and more. Others are watching and taking note hoping to chisel it away.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

I own a 220 swift. I would never in a million years choose it for deer hunting over my 280 REM.

Nobody is telling anybody what to use either. Just offering an opinion.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

I own a 220 swift. I would never in a million years choose it for deer hunting over my 280 REM.

Nobody is telling anybody what to use either. Just offering an opinion.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Brad

I don't think anyone is nuts enough to choose a 22 caliber over a 280 when they have a choice. That's not even realistic. I think we are talking about people who don't have a choice. What I am saying is that I think if you are careful, place your shot well, don't over extend your range it is very capable, and ---- and if it is the only gun you have don't pass up deer hunting because of it. Also there are people with disabilities that may choose a very light recoil rifle. I like my 300 mag and don't even shoot my 270 anymore. In the past I shot 11 deer with a 22-250 and 3 with a 22 Hornet. The 22 Hornet were back of the head shots walking away. It is the smallest legal 22 cal in North Dakota. More importantly I never lost any. I also am not telling people what to use, nor am I advocating small calibers. Bottom line if that's all you have go with it.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

I agree. If I only owned a 22 centerfire, I still would deer hunt. It is way too much fun.

On a different note, I endorse smaller caliber rifles for big game hunting. Don't end up wasting as much meat.

I also own a 300 mag, but chose my 280 REM when I went elk hunting. I had heard stories of elk shot though both shoulders and still running over a mile. I was a little hesitant about using the 280 REM, but was happy with the results. I had 3, 6x6 bull elk run by me in the forest at 50 yards. It only took one shot. The lead bull took the "nestea plunge", dead in his tracks. I got lucky and hit him in the neck.

Montana public land, with no guide, what a experience! The only problem was the elk was 2 miles up the mountain, on "wilderness" land. This meant no 4 wheelers, chainsaws and the like. Good thing we knew a guy with some horses!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Hey Brad

Good to hear a success story. I got to greedy last fall in Montana. I had a bull bedded in range, but I knew there was a bigger one close by. The wind shifted and chased the whole herd out the other side of the trees. I thought there was about 30 elk, but it turned out to be about 70 elk and there was seven or eight bulls in the herd. Oh well I had fun anyway. I was carrying a new 300 WSM. The outdoor writers say they are the way to go. I guess though you still have to shoot them to get them. They don't write a lot about the 280's these days, but you seen many of them in the mountains.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

The ol' 280 is a feather-weight model. I like to shoot it since it only weighs a couple pounds. It kicks like a mule though.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey my friend theres a bunch of us that are trying to get rid of gun (and gun related articles) bans. Why would you want more rules and restrictions? 

Good thoughts, but I hope you are not serious about more regs.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Like I said good thoughts, I guess alot of people don't agree with you yet on this. I've seen alot of kids kill deer with 22-250's, it blows them down with the best of them. 8)


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I would agree that the 22 cals are not for deer. I say a very large deer get away (ran about 400yds and then jump in the Red River and go down for the count after being shot with a 22-250) I thought it looked like a lung shot at about 150yds. I was not the shooter, but I know the person who made the shot, and he said it was a good lung shot. I have taken deer with the 223 and 220 swift. It was what I had at the time. If I am out hunting deer and not working the farm, I will use my larger guns. I love the 358 win and the 35 whelen improved both with 225gr bullets. I have never had a deer take a single step after being shot with one of these guns. Also, if you want more hunt. then hunt with a handgun. It is great fun, and there are many fine choices to be found. I like the 45-70 for 100yds or less shooting. If longer range shooting is likely, then my contender in 250 savage with a 85gr barns x will do out to about 250yds if a good rest is there. But, leave the 22's at home when deer hunting.


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I would agree that the 22 cals are not for deer. I say a very large deer get away (ran about 400yds and then jump in the Red River and go down for the count after being shot with a 22-250) I thought it looked like a lung shot at about 150yds. I was not the shooter, but I know the person who made the shot, and he said it was a good lung shot. I have taken deer with the 223 and 220 swift. It was what I had at the time. If I am out hunting deer and not working the farm, I will use my larger guns. I love the 358 win and the 35 whelen improved both with 225gr bullets. I have never had a deer take a single step after being shot with one of these guns. Also, if you want more hunt. then hunt with a handgun. It is great fun, and there are many fine choices to be found. I like the 45-70 for 100yds or less shooting. If longer range shooting is likely, then my contender in 250 savage with a 85gr barns x will do out to about 250yds if a good rest is there. But, leave the 22's at home when deer hunting.


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## Canada_Hunter (Mar 21, 2004)

i think you can kill a deer with a .22 but you cand wound it too...in my opinion .22 are too soft to have good penetration on a deer...By the way they should allow .223,great velocity and good penetration and you dont get a hole the size of an orange...and i thing michigan should revise their list of firearms to be use on deer...if someone shoot deer with a 50 bmg he is an idiot...50 bmg can travel 2 kilometers without any problems...If we have deer in quebec in future i buy a 270 for sure...you can hunt moose with that rifle :******:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

thankfully michigan is heavily wooded above the rifle line so i doubt that it going too far would be a problem, however i think that if anyone shot a .50 cal at a deer it would just be for lack of a better use.


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Is it really worth debating anymore? A 22 cf is not a responsible choice.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

And it never was.

We owe mother nature a quick harvest.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

22 centerfire for deer. Maybe not the best choice, within limitations, can been done ethically and safely. This doesn't mean multiple shots at a running herd at 400 yards. However the 60 gr nosler partition or 70 grain semispitzer at or near 3000 fps from the muzzle would be effective within range limitations. Sometimes those scietific measurements don't add up. I went to that site for Mn. 25-20 win, 25-25 Stevens, 256 win, 10mm auto, 38-40, adequate for deer? You won't see me with any of them for deer. Any caliber you use will have to take into consideration the limitations of that caliber and it will be up to the hunters to discipline themselves to stay within the limitations. Many deer have been and will continue to be taken with 22 centerfire. This last season it made the papers when an 8-year-old hunter took 2 bucks with a 223 here in the Charlotte area. I will assume 22 centerfire is legal in North Carolina. A friend of mine only had one rifle, a 222 rem and took his deer in Tx. Good luck, gain confidence and use discipline.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Okay, a 25-20 with a 60 gr flatpoint at 2300 fps is adequate for deer, but a 22-250 loaded with a 60 grain partition at 3500 fps isn't? I didn't say or believe that a 22 centerfire is my first choice, but some are better than others being used now. And, yes, they can **** at 8 in a special youth guided hunt. And don't start on southern hunters without facts. Each person hunts where he can, how he can. The southern hunters I've met are no different than the midwest hunters I knew when I lived in Iowa


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

All right. Now to my experience. I've been hunting 3 years and have yet to see an ar15 or anything like it. The reason for hunt clubs are the sheer numbers of hunters and the lack of adequate public or available private huntlng land. I have hunted public land. And you don't share the game with your hunting partners? I don't know what to say about that! And running deer is legal for deer only under strict guidelines in North Carolina. By the way, when was the last time you tried to stalk a deer holed up in the swamp. Do those things happen? Sure they do. Are they the norm? Hunt clubs and sharing game. Sure. How many acres of public land did you say you have to hunt on? You're "facts" seem to be based on prejudices based on a single visit. Myself, I hike about 2 miles into flooded river bottoms, set up a tree stand and hunt with a 358, or 308, or sometimes a 30-30. (Yes, a 30-30. Remember, my last deer was shot at about 40 yds, about as far as I could see a deer.) No dogs, no hunt club (can't afford it), no AR15. And I shared the meat with my co-workers because I wanted to share.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I'm glad for you. I repeat, in the 3 years I've hunted in NORTH Carolina, I have yet to see anything like what you saw. I'm sorry you had some bad experiences. I also would like to be able to hunt different areas, but am restricted to my choices now. I will say that I've met hunters from all over who don't have any ethics, much less bad ethics. I try to avoid them these days. The only dog running in North Carolina that I am aware of is during an organized hunt where each hunter (because of numbers and concentration) is placed in a stand and required to stay there until retrieved by the hunt manager. This was not on public or hunt club land, but a military reservation. And I remember reading a note in these forums about someone having to pay $100/day to hunt a ranch. I'm not sure how different that is from a hunt club that may cost $500 for initiation and $100/r. I'm just saying, each of us hunts where he can how he can and the important thing is to make sure your hunt is ethical and enjoyable. For myself, I would rather return without game than risk injuring one.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

OneShotOneKill, you are quoted "slaughter deer with belted & non-belted magnums". Now you have something against magnums? A Magnum doesn't have to blow big holes in game if you select the right bullet. Your lack of intelligence is showing. People like you who sit and chastise others are just as much a threat to hunting as the die hard anti-hunter. I will say it again, if you don't have the skill or ability to use a smaller caliber for deer along with the knowledge of it's limitations don't use one. This isn't to say that it can't be done responsibly.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

A 7mag or 300win is not to "big" for deer hunting.

The best all around gun would be if every hunter on the continent owned and shot exclusively, the 338.

But Most don't like the recoil, including myself. Its a nice thought though. Then you'd have everything covered.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

If your definition of "best gun" is most power, the 338 isn't anywhere close. If your definition is acceptable recoil, you have admitted the 338 is uncomfortable. It seems the "best" is a compromise of the 2 within your own standards. I might add that it includes where you hunt. In ND you evidently take many shots well over 200 yds. So range is another factor. The old 45-70, if I am not mistaken, can be loaded to greater energy than the 338, but doesn't have nearly the range. Most of us would agree that the 44 special is not adequate, but there times when this was the only gun/caliber (or less) that was available, so another factor is availability. I hope we all agree that the MOST important factor is the hunter. Deer can and will be taken with many calibers considered not acceptable by most shooter's standards, but it may be acceptable in a given circumstance. The more people who tell me a 22 centerfire is not adequate, the more tempted I am to challenge myself. A 223 loaded with a 60 gr Nosler partition to about 3000 fps will have adequate energy within the range I have to shoot, in the eastern woods. Shoot what you are comfortable with shooting.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

OneShotOneKill, nice try at attempting to dismiss me as a "silly little boy". The partial quote was the just of the statement. No need to make others reread the whole of your ramblings. It's amazing how you think your way of doing things is the only way as a self proclaimed expert. I read a few of your other posts and have found you to be arrogant and see no need wasting my time with you any longer. To others, if you are confident with what you shoot, good hunting. I'll be using the 260 Rem. this year and am hoping for a good fall.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Guys, this has gotten too personal. I like to hear differing opinions, but this is rediculous. Each person has his own personal tastes in hunting, and his own opinions. Is this best for this person? Yes. Is it best for everyone else? No. To each his own, and if you can't respect that, then I'm outta this one. Bye.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I used to sneak up on deer and shoot them between the eyes with a .22 rimfire... every one went down. I still like being real close to them when I kill them so I shoot most deer (extra doe tags) with a cap-n-ball Kentucky Rifle muzzleloader, what a hoot!!!!


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I think about 1863 or so, I could run down a deer and carve a steak off him without even getting winded. :roll:


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