# Hi-tech bullets overkill on deer?



## southdakbearfan

Just an experience from this past deer season. I loaded 180 nosler accubonds in my 300 mag, which I just got this past year. I usually use my 257 ackley improved on deer with 100 gr nosler ballistic tips for deer. Never have had a problem with one shot, through the ribs or shoulder kills. Anyway, nosler accubonds seemed to be a good deal with the higher velocities associated with a magnum caliber. Went out to the range and they printed at less than 3/4 inch at 100 yds, so good to go, wrong.

I shot a deer 4 times through the ribcage, albeit not exactly where i wanted it, but through the ribs. Every time the deer went down, then got back up. maybe 4 - 8 inches back of the shoulder, but still in the vital zone. Anyway, this goes on, deer keeps getting back up, which I couldn't believe, and rather than have a wounded animal run off, I ended up shooting it in the arse, texas heart shot, to stop it.

When I skinned the animal, nice little entry and exit holes, no expansion, just like I had shot it with a FMJ. And the rear quarter that was impacted with the final shot only lost about half of the meat, which I expected most of it would be ruined.

Now from experience, I know for a fact that if I would have shot that deer in the same location with a ballistic tip out of my 257 it would have died on the spot with any of the first 4 shots, but it didn't.

So lesson learned, don't shoot a deer with an elk bullet, regardless of accuracy. Expansion and destruction have positive values.

Anyone else ever experience anything similar?


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## Horsager

I've taken 10 deer myself (and two of my buddies a deer each with my rifles/loads) with Barnes TSX's. Caliber in hole, exit wound the size of a golf ball. Front shoulders, rib cage, skull, always the same. Ranges have been from 75yds-515yds with either a 200gn from my 300 Win started @ 3000fps, or a 140gn from my 270Win started @ 3100fps. I've also taken two coyotes with 85gn TSX's from my 243. One had an exit hole the size of a basketball @ 105yds (in on the point of the on-side shoulder, out behind the ribs, ahead of the rear quarter), the other had a nickle sized exit wound @ 300yds (through the ribs), I also blew the snot out of a porkie @75yds with that bullet. Lastly one head/neck shot coyote with the 270 @ 125yds, caliber in, silver dollar out.

Had your accubond been placed through one or both front shoulders you'd be telling us how great they are. How they kill like lightning without ruining lots of meat. I think your issue is more to do with placement than construction. A 165gn Ballistic tip from your 300mag should perform similar to the 100gn 25cal your used to using.


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## kizlode

Anything over a 30'06 on deer is OVERKILL!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Plainsman

I believe some people are under gunned, but overkill? A 375H&H doesn't blow up a deer. What is overkill, do they die to fast?????? I have shot deer with a 405 gr bullet at 2150 fps with little meat damage. Did I need it? Probably not, but was it overkill? I don't know how do you overkill something?
Premium bullets are not only good for elk, they are good for not blowing up smaller animals when you want magnum power for flat trajectory and wind deflection resistance.


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## huntin1

Horsager said:


> Had your accubond been placed through one or both front shoulders you'd be telling us how great they are. How they kill like lightning without ruining lots of meat. I think your issue is more to do with placement than construction. A 165gn Ballistic tip from your 300mag should perform similar to the 100gn 25cal your used to using.


I would agree, sounds more like a placement problem than a problem with the bullet's construction.



kizlode said:


> Anything over a 30'06 on deer is OVERKILL!!!!!!!!!!!!


Now there is a grossly uninformed statement if I ever heard one. :eyeroll:

huntin1


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## southdakbearfan

NO doubt through the shoulders would have helped, and the 300 is an elk rifle, just got it, had too shoot it. The point I was making was all these expensive high priced bonded bullets are overkill on deer, making you have to have perfect placement for the bullet to perform. In the spots I hit the deer, I doubt an elk would have went far at all, but the tougher hide and ribs would have caused the bullet to open.


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## Burly1

So what will you do? Carry a more frangibile bullet for just plain ol' deer, and only load up the premiums when that buck of a lifetime busts out at fifty yards and offers you nothing but a going away shot? I think I'll just go ahead and use a the Accubonds for everything, and be confident that I can take that big boy down from what might be a questionable angle with a lesser bullet. Make sense to anyone else? Burl


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## Horsager

Burly, that was exactly my justification to try the TSX. The added benefit has been that they are the most accurate bullets I've used in my 270, 300, and 243. While meat hunting I'm quite particular about where I insert bullets into flesh. When shooting for horns, shot angle is of little concern to me so long as I can see the angle that will eventually get me to the vitals, I don't really care what the bullet goes through to get to the vitals, so long as it gets there.


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## huntin1

Burly1 said:


> So what will you do? Carry a more frangibile bullet for just plain ol' deer, and only load up the premiums when that buck of a lifetime busts out at fifty yards and offers you nothing but a going away shot? I think I'll just go ahead and use a the Accubonds for everything, and be confident that I can take that big boy down from what might be a questionable angle with a lesser bullet. Make sense to anyone else? Burl


Ahhh Yep, makes sense to me.

huntin1


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## Plainsman

Burly, yep makes sense to me also. With a 180 gr Barnes TSX all I need to know is where the heart is at, even if an elk is quartering away. I may have to go through rear quarter, 36 inches of intestines, gut, and diaphragm/lungs, but I'm going to reach the heart. I don't think there is a big enough elk, or a bad enough angle to keep a 180 gr TSX at 3200 fps from reaching the heart. If you want him, and do your part, he's yours.


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## southdakbearfan

I think you guys are missing my point.

Did I say the accubond was a bad bullet? No.

Did I say I would never use them again? No.

Do I think they are a piss poor deer bullet? Yes.

Would they be a great Elk bullet? I believe so.

I posted my experience to see if anyone had ever experienced a similar thing with any of the other bullets that seems to pop up claiming exceptional weight retention.

In my 17 years of deer hunting, I have shot just about every type of bullet that has come down the pike, from noslers, swift's, barnes, etc, and have found that some of the most basic bullets - Nosler solid bases (which became ballistic tips), Speer's basic boattails, remington bronze points, generic hornady's, and Sierra Pro-hunters, are some of the best bullets for deer sized game to come down the line. Never have they failed to exit, even with hits through both shoulders, and never have they performed like what I experienced this year.

The new bullets that come out each year have super marketing campaigns which I will be the first to admit, if it comes out, I gotta try it. But what about the guy that isn't the perfect shot. How many people have you seen at the range that are just happy to be on the paper the day before deer season. IMO, a bullet design that has to be placed in the perfect location for the bullet to work correctly on particular game is a set up for failure on that particular game.

Course I might just be the only one here to be off 4" when I pulled the trigger.


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## weasle414

kizlode said:


> Anything over a 30'06 on deer is OVERKILL!!!!!!!!!!!!


Have you ever shot a deer with anything bigger than a 30-06? I know a guy who used to hunt deer with a 45/70 and that never seemed like overkill, they just didn't run far, or at all in a lot of cases. As where last year a guy at the shack shot a deer with a 30/06 right thru the lungs, thing ran off and died 1/2 mile away, this thing was just about the biggest fighter I've ever seen. It must have sucked to be that deer. I wouldn't want to get shot with anything and run for 1/2 mile before dying. I perfsonally hunt with a .50 cal. muzzleloader that's easily capable of taking elk with, it's never been considered overkill. In fact, the deer I shot this year it was perfect, 120 yards right thru both shoulders and lungs. I had a .50 cal. sized enterance, and a .54 cal. exit. The deer flipped right over and didn't go anywhere but it was by no means overkill, just less dragging and tracking on my end and less suffering on the deers end. All in all, anything can be good for taking deer, all the way from the .243 (and in some peoples oppinions lower) to my .50 cal. and bigger.


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## Horsager

Southdakbearfan, what rifle/load/velocity are you shooting while using the accubonds?

I've heard similar arguments made about partitions, but the only one I ever recovered had lost the whole front end. Exit wounds were generally raquetball sized.

I've shot dozens of deer with 140gn Ballistic tips from a 270 @ 2900fps. I've found jacket fragments, never a true "recovery" of any bullet, most of it exited. Ballistic tips kill like lightning. I drive TSX's a bit harder, 140gn @ 3100fps and the kills are the same.

In my 300Win I replaced a 200gn Parititon with the 200 TSX, both right at 3000fps. They kill the same. A dozen deer with partitions, 7 with the TSX. Two elk with partitions, one with the TSX, again they kill the same.

If you're reloading you may need to drive the accubonds faster to get the performance you're looking for.


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## southdakbearfan

Never had a problem with a partition opening up, even at 400 yds they have a very thin jacket on the front half for that purpose, as you probably already know.

I was driving the accubonds just south of 3100.

Maybe I got a bad batch of bullets, idk, but they whistled through like they were fmj.


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## Horsager

I don't understand why you'd buy a 300Win, go to the trouble of loading your own ammo, then shoot said ammo at 30-06 velocities, please explain.

A 165gn TSX @ 3200fps (or faster) would do anything you'd ever need a 300 Win to do.


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## Scooter

I have also shot deer with several premium bullets to include Swift, Speer, Barnes, Hornady. I have seen the 110gr Accubond at 3100fps from my dad's 25-06 perform superbly on antelope last season. I have shot deer with TSX's from 6.5 to .338 and found very dead deer and small exit holes with no tracking needed. The same type of performance from the Scirocco's I've used. Every Hornady Interlock or SST I've used did everything I needed it to do including bringing down my doe this past season at 500 yards +or- a few and I was using 140gr SST from my .264 WM at about 3100fps. Now I don't think that the Barnes, Swift or any other premium bullet is requiered for killing deer but the do quiet well in the deer fields so for. But shot placement and presentation are more forgiving when using a well consructed bullet i.e. there is no elk that I could not shoot from stem to stern usinng a 225gr TSX at 3125fps from my .338 RUM.


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## Burly1

I don't think we missed your point SDbearfan. But the reverse of your argument can also be a factor in deciding what bullet to use. I switched to the accubonds in my .270 Weatherby mag as a result of blowing half the ham off a deer, and watching it run off into a CRP field, when I tried for the extreme angle shot with a ballistic tip. I later managed to collect that deer, but I thought then, and still do, that if I would have had a bullet that held together better, I would have blown out that deer's lungs and anchored it on the spot. 
The difference I think, lies in differing perceptions of what might happen to us in the hunting fields. When doe hunting, I almost always can count on a perfect, or nearly so, broadside shot at unalarmed game. I just don't have that happen with bucks very often. Most of my shots are at bucks that are trying to put as much distance between me and them, as possible. Very seldom do they offer me a good shot. Maybe my hunting skills aren't up to what you consider to be par, but that's the kind of shots I usually get. In that case a bullet that will give me good penetration and not give up everything in the first twelve inches of deer is what I need, and Accubonds fill that bill nicely. In addition, I am with you on their inherant accuracy. They shoot what I consider to be very nice groups in my rifle as well. I don't usually hunt does with that rifle, generally preferring to go with something lighter. If I would have a standing shot on a good buck, I would go for both shoulders, and if I shoot too far back, I'll just have to take my chances on what you call a "piss poor" deer bullet. Good hunting, Burl


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## southdakbearfan

Horsager said:


> I don't understand why you'd buy a 300Win, go to the trouble of loading your own ammo, then shoot said ammo at 30-06 velocities, please explain.
> 
> A 165gn TSX @ 3200fps (or faster) would do anything you'd ever need a 300 Win to do.


As said before, just south of 3100 fps, with 180 gr Accubonds Max Load with H4831sc. Course if you load with the newer books, it's even slower, to make the short mags stack up. They actually went across the chrono around 3090. You find me the 06 that will drive 180 gr over 3000. Plus, the 180's shoot flatter at range.


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## Horsager

My bad when I read the post the 1st time what I though I read the velocity was just south of 3000 (which a 30-06 will do).

You could plunk a 180 TSX on top and pick up an extra 100fps or so, they have less bearing surface.


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## Plainsman

Horsager

Do you think the extra velocity is due to the bearing surface, or because the copper is lighter, therefore longer, takes up powder room in the chamber, hence brings up breach pressure slightly, which translates to higher velocity?
I am shooting 165gr Ballistic Tips and Scirocco's at 3350, and the TSX at 3425 using the same powder charge. I see most manufactures are pushing the X bullets slightly slower. The copper is lighter than lead and hence a 165 gr bullet is as long as a 180 gr lead bullet. When you seat them they go further down in the case, take up powder room, and bring up breach pressure. My Barnes manual does not back of on the recommended powder loads, so naturally breach pressure is up. Higher breach pressure means higher velocity. The less bearing surface as you mentioned gives less resistance so that perhaps lowers breach pressure. Whatever the reason I don't have excess pressure and I am getting 3425 fps with a 165 gr out of a 300 Winchester Mag. These bullets open up down to 1700fps so you can reach out there with them. 
I don't get good accuracy from the blue coated X bullets, I get excellent accuracy from the plain old X bullet, but excess copper fowling. The TXS gives me superb accuracy and much less copper fowling.

I really like the Scirocco's for deer. They open easily in the chest area on a broadside shot, but will give good penetration if I see a nice buck and he doesn't give me a perfect shot angle. The X bullet will let you shoot deer or elk stem to stern. If you know where the heart is you will reach it.

I think premium bullets allow a person to go down slightly in bullet weight for any given game species. This gives you flatter trajectory. As a matter of fact many outdoor writers have mentioned this specifically for the X bullets. I had always loaded 180 gr in 300 mag for elk. Now I load 165 gr for elk. My rifle is an oddball though because most 300 mags give best accuracy with 180 gr bullets and mine likes 165 gr.

If anyone has problems with premium bullets not opening I would suggest dropping bullet weight and picking up velocity.


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## Horsager

200 TSX's run 3000-3020 in my rifle. 200 Partitions run 2950-2970. Same powder charge, same overall length (so more X bullet in the case). I guess I thought the extra velocity was due to less bearing surface, maybe it is a slightly higher chamber pressure. Maybe it's a combination of both. Accubonds ran similar velocities to the Partitions but didn't shoot particularly well in this rifle (they didn't get much of a try either), 180gn Scirocco's suffered the same fate, poor accuracy with the 1st few loads and I went back to what I knew worked well.


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## dakotashooter2

Those in the bullet making industry would have us believe that their bullets are perfect under all conditions. They are not. While there have been vast improvements in bullet technology specifically the velocity ranges within which a bullet will best perform there still exists conditions under which no bullet will perform perfectly. There are even some hunters out there that realize this and carry different loads for different conditions (long range vs short). Many of the high performance bullets were designed for... high performance cartridges and if used outside of that category do not perform well. An example being a bullet designed for one of the 30 caliber super mags being used in a 30-30 or vice versa. A particular bullet manufacturer may show you pictures of their bullets performance at **** velocity through **** velocity. essentially the bullet performs good, great and good again within that range. However there may be bullets out there that perform excelent in that portion of the range where the bullet in question only performs good. If 99.9% of your shooting occurs at the lower end of a high performance bullets range you have to decide if you want excelent performance 99.9% of the time or give that up for good performance on the .1% chance you might shoot into the high performance bullet optimum range. I'm not saying they are good or bad, only that you have to full understand their capabilities. The people that realize this most tend to be those that reload their own ammo.


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## cranebuster

I've never been a fan of the whole train of thought that you can be overgunned. If anything, a premium bullet will make a magnum caliber MORE suitable for smaller game. I've shot a lot of 7mm STW and .30-378 Weatherby, the latter being the most powerful medium game round out there, and had extremely good success with 200gr. Accubonds and XBT's out of it. Everything from fox to elk have fallen to these things. If you don't want the bullet to expand, shoot them in the ribs (lungs) and it will do minimal visual damage. I can guaranteee you it will absulotely turn it's lungs into gel on the way through though. Even with the KO power of a 30-378 Wby, you won't drop a deer shot through the ribs on the spot. If you want to do that shoot them in the shoulder. My 7mm STW with 150gr. Scirroco's on top of 80gr 7828 is on of the flattest meanest rounds out there. I used to load 120gr. Ballistic tips specifically for deer and then switch to Scirrocos for elk, but the 120 BT's would literally blow softball size holes through deer. The Scirrocos do less damage, shoot much flatter, and are literally capable of penetrating completely through a deer from bow to stern.


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## ballistx

my 2c.
Have been hunting and reloading for more years than I want to admit. In my younger period (60s-70s) I had the concept of a caliber for each occasion. And I had one of the best gunsmiths in the country for a friend. Ended up with 30-06, 270, 25-06, 243 and other incidental ones. I had the fortune of his experience and started with the Nosler Partition in all calibers. I do not know anything about any others because I never saw any reason to try anything else, except once. I ended up with the lead in the ham and the hull in the shoulder on a medium size deer.
I had the occasion to be the one to go after a wounded buck in the Idaho hills. Big open hills. My last opportunity was accross a canyon as he climbed the opposite wall going straight away and almost straight up. I was sighted in for 200 yards. I 'Idaho' estimated, held over the top of his rack (estimated 22" above) and hit him right between the shoulder blades. The bullet went through and came out the chest. That was with a 243 and 100 grain Nosler Partition. Later I calculated the range with my ballistic program and it was at 650 yards.
On another in the Selway, I was with a sheepherder friend and we needed camp meat. The choice was a doe at an estimated 600 yards. She tipped over backwards when hit on the first shot. We walked the horses in and just as we came up on the spot there was a small buck standing there. I asked Mark if I should take him too. He said yes as he was not in a position to shoot. I hit that one behind the shoulder at about 15 yards. Those were with the 30-06 and 165 grain Nosler Partition. The doe was hit right behind the shoulder also.

The point of all this is that all three had the exact same terminal condition. Dime size entry and quarter size exit. Everything in between destroyed. In one trip into NE Wyoming 4 of us took 33 deer and antelope in 3 days of hunting and it was legal and all were tagged. One of those was shot at about 10 yards broadside right behind the shoulders. Some were stretching 350+ yards. Again, all that I shot were with Nosler Partitions and all had exactly the same terminal results. dime in, quarter out.

I don't know what the other bullets do and will never find out from my own experience. That is, unless they quit making the Nosler partition and I can't stock up a lifetime supply ahead of time.

Every game animal deserves the best we can do. Bullets are one of, if not the absolute cheapest part of a hunt. My preference for deer is the 243. But no matter what caliber I take, it will be stuffed with Nosler Partitions.

Too old and senile to change. :eyeroll: Couldn't remember the loading data for anything else.


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## lockedcj7

I'm of the opinion that premium bullets aren't *necessary* for deer but to each his own. Deep penetration, controlled expansion or rapid expansion each has its place and is partly a matter of personal preference. I've heard both sides of the argument. 
Namely:

A- that the bullet should penetrate through and thereby leave a good blood trail.
B- that the bullet should remain in the animal, thereby dumping all its energy in the target.

I personally don't shoot unless I have a broadside or quartering shot. I'm not slamming anyone who does, I just choose not to. I'm a meat hunter and there are plenty of animals in my neck of the woods. I also prefer the double-lung/heart shot and I've never lost an animal. I'd be sick if I did and I hold my fire if I'm not 100% confident. It also explains why I practice at and never shoot beyond 300yds. If I was chasing a once-in-a-lifetime trophy or opportunities were few and far between, I might change my tune.

I've shot deer with 120gr BT, 140gr partitions, 140 gr Rem. core-lokt, 154gr soft-points in 7mm-08, 12ga 00 buck (legal in my state), .44 Hornady XTP in 50cal ML, 130gr BT and 130gr Rem. core-lokt in .270win.

All my deer have gone down within 50yds of the point of impact and some in their own tracks.


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## NDTerminator

Used the 160 grain 7MM Accubond from a 7MM RUM on a big 6X7 at about 260 yards this last season. Have never seen a more devasting hit/wound channel...

Also used a 225 grain Hornady Interbond from a 338 Magnum on a 340 class elk at 240 yards. One shot kill, dropped the bull nearly in his tracks.
Found the bullet perfectly mushroomed under the off side hide, retained weight of 167 grains. Penetrated well over 2 feet of tough critter.

I'll stick with the premium stuff...


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## kizlode

Ok people,
After expressing my opinion whenI said " Anytinig over a 30'06 is overkell on deer" I have been told that I am "inexperienced", and asked whether I have ever shot deer with anything other than an '06.
No, I am not inexperienced. Been hunting deer, and other game for over 40 years, been a sniper in 'Nam. How many of you can say you have hunted Kangaroo in the land down under? ( I have while on R&R)
The only one of you I have ever gone off on is Jiffy, and he deserves everything he gets.
Yes I have killed deer with everything from a 223 to a 54 ca. muzzel loader. 357 Mag. hand gun to a 12 ga. shotgun.
Just because I have only recently found,m and been posting on this site does not mean I am "inexperienced", or stupid. 
I have my opinions, you have yours. I agree to disagree.
Do I know everything about everything? Absolutely not. That's Jiffy"s job.
But please give me some credit for knowing what I know.
Jiffy. EAT MY SHORTS.


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## Jiffy

uuuuummmmm, did I miss something on this thread? :huh:


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## Bobm

I had a similar experience with my 257 roberts I used to shoot 118 grain remington corelocks but one day I decided to buy a bunch of boxes of federal premium plus p shell with 120 grain nosler partitians.

The remingtons were a lot better, the partitians don't open on deer and you can' even find the entrance or exit holes, no blood trail.

they do kill the deer just fine but if they run 50-100 yards or better in heavy brush they are sometimes very hard to find.

The remington shells with the corelocks would drop them in their tracks 9 out of 10 times, and the rare time they didn't the blood trail was obvious.

Most of the shots have been at 250-300 yards, maybe the roberts isn't fast enough at those ranges to make a partitian expand.

I did shoot a buck at about 30 yards straight on and found the partitian under the hide on the far side hip, that one dropped in its tracks.


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## iwantabuggy

Okay, I don't think you can be over gunned, but you sure don't need a magnum to kill deer. I think everyone would agree on that.

You are all forgeting four little words that I consider to be of utmost importance if you want to kill deer and elk with the same bullet.

Those four words? SWIFT SCIRROCCO, CONTROLLED EXPANSION.

They are awesome. :thumb:


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## Horsager

> Those four words? SWIFT SCIRROCCO, CONTROLLED EXPANSION


Woulda used them if they'd have shot well in my rifle. Gave away most of a box when a couple of proven loads wouldn't work with them.


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## iwantabuggy

Have any more to give away? I'll take em. They have shot excellent in every gun I have tried them.


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## hagfan72

Just wanted to add my two cents worth:

A few years ago, I too shot at a small deer while elk hunting. 175gr TBBC out of my 7mm Rem Mag. 65 yards, in and out through the ribcage without hitting one rib. Also did not expand. That deer was the ONLY animal I have ever shot at with that rifle that did not go down within just a few steps (antelope excluded :wink: ). He walked/jogged about 50-70 yards before tipping over. I too felt that if it doesn't hit a bone, those heavy premium bullets may not dispense enough of their energy in the animal.

Sorry to be rehashing old posts, but it is my day off over here and i am bored. Already took in all the emails Csquared sent my way.


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## Csquared

If you watched all of em I can't believe you're still awake!!!!!!!!!!!

How many cigarettes???????????


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## usmarine0352

No such thing as over-kill.

If it kills them quickly and humanely, who cares?

I have a friend who's shot plenty of deer with a .22lr.

He could look at everyone who shot larger calibers and go, "Anything over .22lr is over-kill."
*

A man asked a police officer, "Why do you carry a .45?"

The police officer responded by saying, "Because they don't make a .46"*

:beer: [/b]


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## iwantabuggy

usmarine0352 said:


> A man asked a police officer, "Why do you carry a .45?"
> 
> The police officer responded by saying, "Because they don't make a .46"[/b]
> 
> :beer: [/b]


They do now.....


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## Wyomingpredator

Just my 2 cents I shot a 300 win mag with 165 accubond on ant and deer this year I had the same prob with the antelope I came to the conclusion that my bullets were moving to fast muzzle chronied at 3175 if you read noslers notes it says that the accubond works at velocities under 3100 fps and each bullet may need even slower velocities as weight goes up. I think they are a great bullet but after seeing what the barnes tsx did out of a 338 federal I am switching because they are a superior bullet in my opinion, besides the barnes wont fragment like the nosler will, even though the nosler accubon is bonded it still fragments I have seen it in 7mm and 30 cal


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## Scooter

I have shot animals with bullets ranging in caliber from .22 to .338. I've used the good the bad and the ugly. Years ago was using 165gr Speer hot cores out of an 30-06 worked all the time no failures. Used Nosler BT and decided that I wouldn't hurl those bullets again with a sling shot at anything except yotes and praire dogs but I have seen better results with the Accubond. Still use Hornady Interlocks and SST's great bullets. Used Sierra's out of a 22-250 worked o.k. on an antelope. I have also used Scirocco's and TSX's excellent bullets. Now if I was to use just one bullet for everything it would be the TSX's. Because I have seen those bullets act like no other always holding together, complete penatration, and more one shot flops than anything else I have seen or used. I have seen these TSX's impact game at 3300 fps from my .338 RUM and impact at less than 2200fps from a .264 WM and still do the same thing. In and out, bang flop, no if's and's or but's. I will still use the Hornady's, Swift's, and Barnes but if I had to choose just one it would the TSX hands down.


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## hagfan72

The 140gr Ballistic Silvertips that I used on antelope this year really fragmented a lot too!! This was my first time using any sort of ballistic tipped bullet, so the fragmentation was new to me. Although I will take the fragging because these bullets put them 'lopes DOWN!!


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## dfisher

Bobm said:


> I had a similar experience with my 257 roberts I used to shoot 118 grain remington corelocks but one day I decided to buy a bunch of boxes of federal premium plus p shell with 120 grain nosler partitians.
> 
> The remingtons were a lot better, the partitians don't open on deer and you can' even find the entrance or exit holes, no blood trail.
> 
> they do kill the deer just fine but if they run 50-100 yards or better in heavy brush they are sometimes very hard to find.
> 
> The remington shells with the corelocks would drop them in their tracks 9 out of 10 times, and the rare time they didn't the blood trail was obvious.
> 
> Most of the shots have been at 250-300 yards, maybe the roberts isn't fast enough at those ranges to make a partitian expand.
> 
> I did shoot a buck at about 30 yards straight on and found the partitian under the hide on the far side hip, that one dropped in its tracks.


Bob, I had similar experience with the Roberts with 120 gr. hand loads. Mine were loaded with Sierra bullets and right now I can't tell you the type, as that was a long time ago. 
But they were not loaded overly fast and the entry and exit wounds were quite small. These animals were only from 100 to 125 yards out too.

I think the poor expansion was due to the lower velocity at which they were traveling. I'm no ballistic wizard but that is my best guess.

Happy Holidays,
Dan


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## headshot

My 30-06 was doing the same thing with accubonds. A friend of mine got into a little bit of a situation while using 200gr accubonds in his 338. He shot a good sized grizz in the shoulder at less then 100 yards. Bang-flop the bear is down. We have a smoke and wait to see if another bear is gonna surprise us while dressing the big guy. 10 mins later the bear gets up. Sean lets him have it high in the shoulder, ka-pow and he is down again. We start joking about how smoking just saved our lives and how resiliant the coastal bears are. We approach the bear and he is just lying there, tongue hanging out in a pool of blood. I see him twitch and hot damn he is trying to get up with a broken shoulder. Enough of this and I let fly with the 45/70 at less then 30 paces. One shot rolled him right over. When we skinned him there was little to no internal damage from the so-called "premium" bullet, the shoulder that took a direct hit had a hole in it with very little damage to the meat and it didn't even penetrate the chest cavity. The results from the 45/70 were a little more spectacular. Anything within a 10 inch radius from the entrance wound was liqufied. IMO bonded bullets are crap. Hard cast, solids or partitions are the only things I'll use. I don't care if it is for elephants or yotes, when I shoot something I want it dead.


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