# Any annealing tips?



## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I have a batch of brass that I would like to anneal. Can anyone offer any tips on the process. I had some brass that I picked up at the range that I figured I would practice on. I'm trying to get the color of the brass to be the same from the neck to just below the shoulder, but it seems like just below the shoulder turns into kinda a rainbow color and the neck is turning into a darker color.

I'm using a propane torch for the heat and I have a 1/2" socket chucked into my drill and I set the brass in there and spin it as it is heating. When the color just below the shoulder gets to the rainbow color I drop the brass into some cold water. I've tried holding the brass at different points in the flame trying to get an even color, but nothing has really worked very well. Any suggestions?

Thanks


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

get some Templac at 425 F and paint it just below the shoulder junction. When it melts you're done. To remove the templac that melted use fingernail polish remover. Works like a charm.

xdeano


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## StretchNM (Dec 22, 2008)

Wildcat,

I want to try that Templiq stuff that Xdeano mentioned. I've read guys say that after using it on a few cases, you start to get a feel and no longer need the stuff for the remainder of the batch.

I'm no expert but I anneal by brass after every 5th firing, so I've done a few. The most oft heard recommentation is to stand the cases in a pan of water that covers them about halfway up the case. Then heat the neck to just as it turns a dull red, then tip the case over into the water. Hotly contested it is, this business of telling when to stop and what color the neck should be.

What I do is hold the case in my bare left hand. A 5 gal bucket half full of water is on the floor below my stool. Using a bottle of Mapp gas with just a screw-on torch, I heat the necks while just turning my hand a little to help heat evenly all around. I have no lights on in the shop or, if it's dark outside, I'll leave a little lamp that's over by the bandsaw with most of its light blocked off. It's pretty dark when I anneal my cases so I can see the necks turn color. That cordless drill idea is a pretty god idea, I might try that next time. BUT! The reason I hold the case in my hand is because if the case gets waay too hot to hold, I've probably heated too much.

I heat it until just BEFORE the neck turns red. This is usually the point where the case is too hot to hold in my hand and I drop it into the bucket. How can I tell when it's "before" turning red? Just by doing it several times I can just tell when it's about to turn. And if I'm wrong and it's too soon, I don;t think I've hurt anything and the case has still been heated enough to be annealed. I think anyway. I can always tell once I full-length size and trim - the brass shavings from the trimmer peel off in nice long curls (if there's that much to trim). But anyway, there's no "chatter" between brass and cutter.

I've read that brass doesn't need to be quenched to anneal. Fast quench or slow cool down makes no difference in brass, it all anneals the same. I quench them though - who wants hot brass laying around?

There are probably some experts out there who would take issue with my method, but I don;t mind. I'm happy to hear when I might be doing something wrong. I'm new enough at it that I might stand some improvement.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

StretchNM, for years I have used the pan method you mentioned. About an inch of water in a pan and I put in 50 cases at a time. In a dark room I heat until I see color in the neck, then tip them over.


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## SaberX01 (Sep 25, 2009)

The Benchrest guys have been doing this for a long time, some by hand, others have made there own automatic system system.

Video of a home made Annealing system:
http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/f/JDK_Annealer.wmv

If your serious about it, and anneal lots of brass, have a look at the BC 1000 Automatic Annealing System form Ken Light Manufacturing. I've read benchrest articles where the guys are doing 1200 cases per hour on these types of machines.

BC-1000 Link (bottom of the bage):
http://www.kenlightmfg.com/products.html

It's 400 Bucks, which ins't cheap, but it's fast. If you shoot allot, I could see where this would be of real value in extending brass life (and time to process them), especially if you buying expensive brass.

Here's an article on 6mmBR.com that explains allot of the mystery and shows several methods for annealing.

Annealing Article Link: 
http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html
.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to order some of the tempilaq from Midway the next time I place an order with them. As far as the temperature goes, am I right in assuming that when the 425 degree tempilaq melts just below the shoulder, then the neck and shoulder should be at the right temperature for annealing? I've read that it should be around 660 in quite a few articles.

Exactly where on the flame are you holding the brass? I've tried right in the brightest part and that seemed to heat it up too much too fast. It seems to produce more even heat in the dimmer blue part of the flame, farther out from the tip of the propane torch. I've been holding it at an angle to the flame and making sure the neck, shoulder, and just below the shoulder are getting some flame on them.


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## StretchNM (Dec 22, 2008)

I try not to let the flame heat below the shoulder, but even though I can;t see it, I know it's doing it anyway a little bit. I just do the neck only, or that's what I'm "aiming" for with the torch.

The Mapp gas is pretty good because it burns hotter than ordinary propane. I aim the light blue flame that's "inside" of the darker flame at the target (neck). I believe that's the hottest part.

Wildcat, although brass anneals at 660 or so, so many guys I've read say that's too hot. I believe I've read that by the time it gets that hot, you've over-heated. I can;t speak to this because I don;t know - I only remember reading about that by a few guys. All I'm sure of is: I don;t want to ovr-heat so I try NOT to let the neck reach the point it turns red (not even a dull red), and...... I want as little heat as possible below the shoulder. Ideally, I believe that's why guys like to stand the cases in water like Plainsman said....to avoid any problems changing the properties of the metal below the shoulder.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I notice some of the match ammo shows the factory annealing, and that it is often 1/3 of the way down the case. 
When I have gone to minimum loads trying to get accuracy I notice I often get sooty cases. If you read a lot about these things it's an indication of breach pressure so low that the case didn't expand and seal the chamber. I had one 22-250 that was very accurate with 52 gr match bullets and a minimum of W748. However it was a load I didn't like to use. I had to step up one grain to seal the chamber, or anneal a bit below the shoulder. I think that is why some of the very low velocity match ammo is annealed lower on the case. 
If you anneal to extend case life remember to check your older cases for head separation.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

Well, I got some 450 degree tempilaq in the mail today and just tried it out on one piece of brass. I put a line of it on the case about 1/8" down from the shoulder. As I turned the case in my drill the tempilaq melted rather quickly and there wasn't much color change in the neck. I didn't let the flame touch the tempilaq, so I'm wondering if I should just be getting a small color change on the neck and that it?


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## StretchNM (Dec 22, 2008)

Wildcat,
I just annealed some 22-250 brass about 2 weeks ago. As I've posted, I anneal after every 5th firing, so my cases were marked 0-5 (zero annealings, 5 firings). After annealing, they were marked 1-0 (1 annealing, zero firings).

Well anyway, this time I went back to try the pan of water again. Using a shallow bake pan that Mama relegated to me for shop use, I filled it with enough water to come up about halfway on a 22-250 case. I made two rows of five cases. The cases in this size pan were about 1.5" apart in the pan. I had my Mapp gas torch in my right hand and a 12" dowel in my left to knock the cases over when ready.

Since I had a pretty serious incident back n July (using resized .270 to 30-06 cases, [which fired fine until I annealed them]), I decided this time to take extra care NOT to overheat the cases.

I don;t turn the cases while heating. I heated them with the torch point down at about a 50deg angle _into the case mouth _for a few seconds. Then I lowered the torch and changed angle so the flame was heating the _outside of the neck _closest to me. The shop was almost dark. Looking down into the case mouth while heating, as soon as I saw _even a hint _of the brass changing color, I immediately removed the heat and tipped the case over into the pan. Not a single case did I allow to reach a "red" or "dull red" color. No, I stopped long before that.

Well, after annealing and drying, I full-length sized and trimmed the cases. THe trimmings were long, soft, curly-q shavings and there was no cutter chatter. This I always take to mean I did it right - the brass is soft with no brittleness.

That batch of brass now is marked 1-3 (Once annealed and 3 firings, for a total of 8 times fired). There have been no split necks and no sign of incipient head seperation in the case body. As I trimmed the few that needed it this past Sunday, the brass is still soft and nice to trim.

That's how I did it and I'm very happy with this batch.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I've got a batch that has a lot of firings on it and I have had 1 split neck out of the 125 cases. These are the brass I'm wanting to anneal right now. I think I'll give them all a try with the tempilaq and see how the next firing goes.

Stretch, I'll have to try that way on some 30-06 cases that might need some annealing soon. I would imagine both ways work just fine. I did check for a mapp gas torch at wally world when I was there last week, but didn't see one, so I'll have to find one somewhere else and give it a try. You mentioned that you had a serious incident with some annealed caes. What exactly happened? Annealing got to the case and and had a separation?

Its too bad I can't turn the cases that are marked with tempilaq while they are sitting in water and being heated by a mapp gas torch. 

Anyways, thanks for all the tips, I'm sure to get the hang of it with a bit more trial and error.


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## StretchNM (Dec 22, 2008)

Yes, Wildcat, improper annealing is what we figured had to be the answer.

I had resized some .270 range-pickup brass to 30-06. I didn't anneal, just cleaned, loaded and fired. All was well, but one neck split. Not knowing the history of the brass, I annealed them. THen I reloaded some proven loads. When firing these resized .270 cases, my bolt locked up (that's putting it mildy)....smoke everywhere, violent recoil, and other stuff.

Anyway........ one fellow on another forum, while we were trying to figure this out, gave a rather pseudo-scientific explanation about what can happen when we anneal improperly. An eye opener. The theory at its most basic revolves around atomic changes within the makeup of the brass....metallic properties. So since then I've been very careful to avoid overheating the brass. Better less than more and it's worked out so far....

Oh. About the Mapp gas. You'll find it in the plumbing section near the solder and regular propane bottles. It's twice the cost or more, but it burns much hotter so less is used...or the same, however you look at it. If Wally doean;t have it, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace, whatever you have will carry it. If not, propane's fine, of course....


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