# Sportsmans Warehouse no Outfitting there



## Drakekiller

Just got off the phone with the manager of Sportsman's Warehouse (Dave M.). I asked him if his store is involved or are planning to get involved with with commercial hunting in ND in anyway. His answer was no! Had a good chat and I think the Sportsman's Warehouse might be a good place for free lance hunters to spend our outdoor dollars? That is if you do not buy it from this site.


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## njsimonson

Kudos to you for your time and your research. I think if any issue is important to you, the kind of hoofwork you did is mandatory. They may see a share of my outdoor buck coming their way soon. And to think I signed up for a Gander credit card. Hrmph!


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## Bob Kellam

Thanks for the info DKiller!!!!!

Bob


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## GooseBuster3

Thats good to know!


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## 870 XPRS

give it time



> .......We have not been able to locate the source of these very serious false accusations to date........
> 
> Cordially,
> 
> Chris Bahl
> Brand Manager
> Gander Mountain


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## drjongy




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## farmerj

Drakekiller said:


> Just got off the phone with the manager of Sportsman's Warehouse (Dave M.). I asked him if his store is involved or are planning to get involved with with commercial hunting in ND in anyway. His answer was no! Had a good chat and I think the Sportsman's Warehouse might be a good place for free lance hunters to spend our outdoor dollars? That is if you do not buy it from this site.


Dave is the Hunting Manager....
Nate is the Store Manager........


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## TANATA

Dave M is my manager, awesome guy.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Good work on the report! :beer:


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## Drakekiller

By the way Sportsman's Warehouse also has good prices. A good friend of mine save $50 bucks on the new Lyman 1200DPS digital powder system after going to one of the other big stores. Ticks me off I bought mine at Gander plus a doz. Big foots. For now on I will buy all my outdoor goods at the Sportsman's Warehouse or on this site regardless of price!


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## backwater

I hate to bust your guys chops but you are fighting a lost cause. What you are attempting to do is like trying to only buy american made products. It is not going to happen. If you want to make a difference you have to get rid of the guides, or make a cap so low that they won't survive.


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## smalls

But the cause is being fought on principle. I don't think any one of these guys thinks they are going to shut a store down, but they are sure as hell not going to compromise in defeat and support the antithesis of their ideals.


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## Maverick

I personally haven't been into either? From what I have been hearing I think I will start at SW! Thanks for the research Kevin!!


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## gandergrinder

Well said smalls. My thoughts exactly.


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## KEN W

does Scheel's do this also?Will we be down to one store...SW?


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## Drakekiller

December 2002 
RE: Non-Resident Hunter Issue

I have been working with the managers of our 6 North Dakota stores, trying to get numbers that are close, and today we are confident that our Scheels stores in Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks and Fargo do in excess of $2,500,000, annually with non-resident hunters and the guide and outfitters that supply them. As you can see, it is a huge amount this number grows each year. We feel the non-resident is 10-15% of our business in Minot, 15-20% of our business in Grand Forks and Fargo, and 30-40% of our hunting and related business in Bismarck. It is not unusual for a group of 4 non-residents to spend $2500 before the hunt, and $500 after the hunt on their way home.

Scheels employs over 700 people in North Dakota and we rely on this non-resident hunter for a significant portion of our business in the fall. I would urge you to support no further restrictions on the non-resident hunters. While we would like unlimited licenses, we can live with the limit of 30,000 on waterfowl and we can understand the early season for residents only, but would urge no further restrictions on the number of hunters or the periods when they are allowed to hunt. Nationally, there are fewer and fewer hunters and the demographics in North Dakota mean less resident hunters every year. We need the revenue from the non-residents just to hold us even.

There are a couple of other points on this issue: 
1. The license fees could be more expensive by at least $50 a license. 50,000 @ $50 = $2,500,000 and this could be used for more habitat. It is a standing joke for many that the license costs less than the booze! These people fly in or drive in, in a $35,000 SUV and $5000 worth of gear. 98% would pay $50 more without blinking. The typical elk hunter pays $650 in Montana and these bird hunters like to hunt birds as much as the elk hunter likes to hunt elk. Raise the fee and plant more habitat.

2. It would sure help if they had to buy their licenses at a North Dakota retailer. More and more hunters buy their licenses online and this keeps them out of the store in some cases. They spend huge amounts when they get in our stores and they see all we have to offer. This would be a huge boost to retail business throughout the state. Computers would easily allow us to cut license sales off at a pre-determined limit.

Thanks for your time! The 700 North Dakota Scheels associates certainly hope there are no further restrictions on non-resident hunters who help pay their salaries. $2.5 million pays a whole lot of paychecks.

Most Sincerely, 
Steve Scheel

Ken 
This letter was from last session,it was sent to legislators. I have heard that Steve Scheel may have changed his mind on some NR issues.Someone should call him and see if he is going to support the HPC this session.


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## goosehtr4life

:stirpot: Not trying to stir the pot, but I just recently switched to Dish Network and was watching a program on the men's channel called hunting leash Mag...Sportsman warehouse was a sponsor of this eppisode and after checking out the website huntinglease.com It is not a website/program I wouldn't think they would want to be associated with...On the website I did click on sponsors and they are not listed...

Again not trying to stir the pot..just some info..


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## kingme88

These people fly in or drive in, in a $35,000 SUV and $5000 worth of gear. 98% would pay $50 more without blinking. The typical elk hunter pays $650 in Montana and these bird hunters like to hunt birds as much as the elk hunter likes to hunt elk. Raise the fee and plant more habitat.

Reading that makes me sick! I think that everyone on this site knows that no one owns ducks and geese. So why fee us to death? Making the fees high would make the state the same as an outfitter. That would be taking away hunting from the poor and only letting the rich hunt. Fifty bucks is fifty bucks. Just remember no one owns those birds!


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## gandergrinder

The problem with Mr. Scheel is one of perception. He thinks that everyone coming to ND is as wealthy as he is. Now there is nothing wrong with wealth mind you. It's just that many people when they become wealthy (or were born that way) forget (or never knew) what the majority of people have for disposable income.

People have to get outside there own social circles to really see how other people live. I believe that letter probably had a negative return on investment.


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## mallardhunter

I was at a Sportman's Warehouse and they look good.


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## farmerj

gandergrinder said:


> The problem with Mr. Scheel is one of perception. He thinks that everyone coming to ND is as wealthy as he is. Now there is nothing wrong with wealth mind you. It's just that many people when they become wealthy (or were born that way) forget (or never knew) what the majority of people have for disposable income.
> 
> People have to get outside there own social circles to really see how other people live. I believe that letter probably had a negative return on investment.


And to see that letter now explains the Scheels house of fun and emporioum now being built. How big of a store does Scheels really need? This letter just goes to show how out of touch most wealthy "families" in North Dakota really are.


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## TANATA

If you think about it, is the huge store Scheels is building really going to bring them anymore profit then before. Sure more people may travel to come, but they are going to have to sell a lot of merchandise every day just to keep up with the number of people that will be working there, general bills, and maintanence of such a big building.

Sure I may go check out the place a few times, but I'm not going to be loyal to a more expensive, doesn't care about the customer business because they have a ferris wheel and a big building and I don't think too many others will either.


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## Cooper

Tanata

You made it sound like you worked for sportsmans warehouse in an earlier post. Do you think it is fair that you are harping on Scheels?


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## 870 XPRS

There are plenty of products at SW that were more expensive than both Scheels and Gander I noticed. I haven't been around the store a lot yet, as I was briefly there and picked up a few items, but I don't know if I can classify it as cheaper yet.


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## gaddyshooter

I guess he has lost touch with the average Joe hunter from his letter. 35,000 dollar suv?  Not me. Would I still come up there if I had to pay the extra 50.00? Probably, but that would be 50.00 dollars less that I would be bringing with me to spend elsewhere. Sounds like he only wants the people with all kinds of money to spend coming up to ND to hunt anyway.


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## gandergrinder

I think what you guys need to understand is that the Scheels building is not an ego thing. This is business plain and simple. They wouldn't build if they didn't think they could make more money.

If you are interested, take a look at the projections for population growth in Fargo/Moorhead and you will see why all these companies are building here.

Fargo/Moorhead is the land of opportunity. Probably one of the best economic futures in the entire country.

All of this is just the rush to capitalize on that.


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## MRN

Its gonna have a ferris wheel?

M.


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## Drakekiller

I received a call from a reliable source that Scheels has had a change of heart on these NR issues. In the near future I will contact them personally and report back.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

What's going on man before you started working at SW you thought that scheels was the best. We are loyal and have been in Fargo for a long time. We are building a huge store yes, but over 2/3 of the store will be used for our corperate office storage, and a farris wheel. Yea thats right a Farris wheel. 
I think you will learn to like scheels again. And if there is a huge difference in prices between different places, come in and talk to us. :lol:


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I will talk to steve today and find out on these issues.


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## GooseBuster3

Maybe you should get some knowledgeable salesmen too.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I don't hire so I can't help you.


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## Dick Monson

hunt4P&Y, may I ask you straight out, does Scheels have an $$ interest in the Cannonball Co or any other commercial hunting activity here in ND? Such as leasing, and providing hunts for clients and suppliers? Does Scheels have a position on the MN hunting lawsuit and has Scheels had contact with the principals in that suit before it was filed by MN AG Hatch? Thanks, hunt4P&Y, and if you don't have the answers feel free to pass these questions right up the chain where the buck stops. Inquireing minds would like to know.


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## Drakekiller

Prices are not the only reason I choose to shop at an outdoor store. I will gladly spend a little more for my outdoor supplies if I know that company is not going to lobby against the best interests of sportpersons of this state or support commercial interest that are going to be the downfall of the quality of the outdoors in our State. It would sure be nice to have a store actually takes a position supporting the people who live here and want to save what we have here in ND.


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## duane

KEN W said:


> does Scheel's do this also?Will we be down to one store...SW?


Ken Dubya, I know a few people from Bottineau. What is your last name?


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## duane

Drakekiller, I recall just over a year ago...I stopped into Scheels in Moorhead with a need to have some work done to my gun. Since they did not have a gunsmith there I asked where to bring the gun and they suggested Custom gun works in Fargo.

From what I have seen in some of your past posts, I would call this biting the hand of the person that feeds you? What a pathetic thing to do to a business that supports you?? Or am I missing something here?


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## Old Hunter

duane There is a lot that you are missing. Chis Hustad and Drakekiller are two people that have experienced financial losses in their fight against commercial hunting. They both lose many customers by supporting freelance hunting. Both of these guys are trying to keep hunting affordable for the average wage worker in ND.
Where does Scheels Sports weigh in on these subjects? It appears from the letter Steve Scheels wrote to the state of ND that he is on the side of the commercial hunting. Did you read his letter?
duane I dont have all the answers. Maybe you could help me.
Who were the Moorhead businessmen that had the power to pull Sen. Colin Peterson into the Moorhead airport for a quick meeting about the law suit against North Dakota. I believe that there is a request under the freedom of information act That Sen. Peterson is not responding to. Why should those people remain anonymous. Yes duane there is alot we are missing.


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## TANATA

I would love to ride the farris wheel, how much. :lol:


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## Drakekiller

Duane
To start with I will stand up for the things I believe in even if by doing so I have to take some pot shots by anonymous people like yourself that do not have a clue. I have and will do everything in my power the keep the quality of the North Dakota Outdoors. In my posts I will put out the facts which I can back up. I believe informed people can make up their own minds want they want to do. I have hunted and fished in North Dakota every chance I can for thirty four years. I chose to stay here raise my family and start a small business because of the quality of life here and our great outdoor heritage. But that quality has continually been going down hill over the last few years. So I have been doing everything I can to get involved and informed by attending all the outdoor related meeting I can N.D. Game & Fish meeting, Judiciary B hearings, Sportsmen meetings, and attending and testifying at Natural Resources hearings. I also get an to visit with outdoor people everyday since I opened my Gun Shop in 1985, so I believe I have a pretty good understanding on what is going on out there. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Kevin Hayer


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## MSG Rude

Drakekiller,

Son, you have brought me out of the box to start typeing again. As some of you might have noticed, I have put up my typing fingers for a while but have come back again. I was getting to hot around the collar for my own good on things that I couldn't control, so life goes on, for some...anyways..

Drakekiller I like your post. Either PM me or post here as to where your shop is and I'll stop by for a cup of coffee on me one of these days.

I am not cutting and pasting or quoting but here are a few ideas of mine on a lot of the above posts.

Why are the big money boys getting bigger and closer together here in the FM area you might ask? Why did we just build a multi-million dollar bridge? Answer one and you have the answer for both. Right now the FM area boasts 125K people running red lights and bullhead fishing (living here folks) and in the next 20 years will grow to 150K. That is off of the FM area population coalition that have come up with that figure.

ND has the lowest unemployment rate in the connected US of A at less then 2.5%!  For those of you that don't know it, that is the lowest anywhere and guess what? More people working in a realativly small area means more folks have dispensable income and gues where we spend our 'extra' income around here? Hey, give coot a lolipop for the correct answer (just a poke in the eye ol' buddy, been awhile since we had a spark between us! :beer: ) Thats right, hunting and fishing!

See, that E-Commerce and Business Managment degree is coming in handy here. These folks know that we have a rapidly growing, well employed, under-developed area, and this is where the money is, and more importantly is to be, made.

So our job as 'Outdoorsmen' is to gather as much information working together as our own UN (United Nations for the un-PC people out there) and keep eachother informed as topics arise...i.e. Scheels and GM. I never would have known half of what I do know (or think i know) with out this sight. So now we have to decide whom we want here and whom we do not. What I am saying (in a very round about way, as some of you like I probably would have, just scrolled down to the last sentence I am about to write) we need to find out who we should give our business to, to keep them here.

Sorry, I had to exercise my freedom of finger movement. going back to the spectator section now. You all have a good day!

Dave


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## Field Hunter

Toys for Tots Still up and running?


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## MRN

Duane,

By that logic the oxygen that the plants in Barbara Streisand's garden produce should make us all terribly indebted to her, and the methane that Micheal Moore passes in fact warms our environment and provides the reason we should admire him.

T.

Can we lobby Scheels to make sure they put in a ferris wheel?

M. :lol:


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## MSG Rude

Field Hunter,

Yup, from now to the 17th. I am putting a post in the this forum. I can't beleive that I forgot to post that this year! Thanks for the reminder!

Dave


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## defendthehunt

Well after months of watching many of you berate Scheels, I figured it was time to step in and perhaps try to clear the air, and in the attempt to answer a few questions.

My name is Steve M. Scheel. I am the son of the Steve Scheel whose letter continues to be posted on this site, and the great-great grandson of Fred M. Scheel who founded Scheels 102 years ago. I am the manager of the Scheels store on 13th Ave. in Fargo. In addition I am a North Dakota resident and an avid waterfowl hunter who hunts almost exclusively public land with my friends, my 2 yong boys and my 2 labs.

I will try to answer your questions as much as possible, but please understand that we are a private company so I may only go so far with these answers.

Scheels owns absolutely ZERO outfitters, guides or hunting clubs. ZERO.

Dick Monson- We have no association what so ever with Cannonball Co. or any other commercial hunting. We are in no other businesses other than our 21 sporting goods stores and our 1 throwback to our heritage - the Scheels hardware store here in Fargo. We also have had no contact with any parties in any hunting lawsuit.

MRN - No need to lobby - there will be a Ferris Wheel in the new store. 

Tanata - The Ferris Wheel will cost $1 to ride. Yes, the new store will generate that much more business for us, or we would not build it that is why we have been around 102 years.

Field Hunter - I also have not heard from Toys for Tots this year. If you do please let me know, and I will do the same for you.

Duane - Scheels now has a gunsmith in both our Sioux Falls and our Des Moines stores, which of course would be the first place we would recommend. If you need something done quicker than we can send it and get it back we typically recommend the Outdoorsman or Custom Gun in town. As I stated above, we have no financial interest in any guides, outfitters, land leasing or commercial hunting

GooseBuster3 - We have VERY knowledgeable people in our stores. Collin, John, Jason, Kevin, Terry, Travis and Scott (just to name a few) in our Fargo store can answer just about any gun question you have. If you happen upon a new part-timer, you might get less than from these gentlemen but we really do try to train our people better than anyone else in the business. If you have a particular person who did not answer your questions well, I would like to know so we can work on getting that person up to speed.

As for the misrepresenation of my father's letter by so many of you, I am going to refrain from comment, as I would probably end up attacking you personally the way you attacked him, my family, and this company.

Lastly, I find it ironic that so many people who vehemently support North Dakota hunting and fishing, could not care less about North Dakota Businesses. Where does your money go when you spend it at Gander? Sportsman's Warehouse? Outdoorsman? Custom Gun? Scheels? For thos of us who really love North Dakota, shouldn't we choose to spend our dollars with a company that will keep them in North Dakota?


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## MRN

Steve,

Thanks for joining the forum. I certainly hope you are being straight about your real intentions here - there WILL be a ferris wheel. Yeah.

And your personal and corporate support for HPC this session will be greatly appreciated too. Just as you are thinking of your sons, I too would like my son to know and cherish the peaceful solitude of hunting in ND, and to pass the traditions to his kids.

Thanks in advance,
M.


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## Bob Kellam

Mr Scheel

Thank You for your reply.

Welcome to the site.

Bob


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## MSG Rude

Field Hunter and Mr. Scheel,

Please view my post about Toy's for Tots. Any other questions, please PM me or call me.

Thanks,

Dave


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## Dick Monson

Steve, thank you for the reply. The fine folks who visit this forum do care very much about North Dakota businesses and more specificly those same businesses that are enroached upon by the commercialization of hunting in our state. Verticaly integrated outfitters bypass local business whenever possible and those negative impacts ripple farther than one would first think. Wouldn't you agree that patrons are needed not only for businesses, but also for sound hunting policies that have public benifit?


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## defendthehunt

Darn computer - just ate my reply. So i will try again and I aplogize if this somehow is posted twice.

first - I am NOT Mr. Scheel. My father MAYBE, my grandfather probably, but I am Steve. 

SFC Rude - thanks for the toys for tots info.

MRN - I am a pretty straight forward person. You might not like what you hear, but I call 'em like I see 'em.

Dick Monson - I hope you understand that I, after watching several members of nodakoutdoors crucify Scheels over the past sevearl months, might beg to differ that some of "the fine folks who visit this forum do care very much about North Dakota businesses". I certainly don't put all of the members into the above group, but several members took the opportunity to take a letter completely out of context and attack Scheels.
So I hope you can understand if I am a bit 'defensive' - for lack of a better word.
As for your question - I don't think it possible to seperate each of these issues, hunting policies most certainly affect business and vice-versa. Each of these issues is just a part of the whole, particularly in North Dakota. We certainly need to have sound hunting policies for public benefit, but we also have to protect the right of businesses to make a living. 
I know this is a general answer, but without a more specific question I cannot give a more specific answer.


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## Dick Monson

I appreciate your moniker, "defendthehunt" which is exactly what this effort has been about. Enforcement of the Public Trust Doctrine.
Quality hunting experiances.

Both of those desireable themes are under an unrelenting assualt by the commercialization forces; hunt clubs, G/O industry, "land use organizations" (and I use that term loosely), and some ND businesses. All of these groups seek to curtail public use of pubilc resources for personal private profit. Not a supposition, it is a fact.

If the sportsmen of North Dakota are driven out of hunting, and it is happening rappidly, there will be no support for hunting in the state. None. Then what? Look at Sheridan County, the Devils Lake Basin, SW ND, SC ND and now Gander Mountain expanding into outfitting without a license. An unmistakeable trend. It is a repeated pattern of every state that once supported public use. Without fail the Public Trust Doctrine has been flushed down the toilet for privitezation and profiting at public expense in these states. Exclusivity is not compatable with the Public Trust. They are fire and water and only one will prevail.


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## Plainsman

Defendthehunt

A couple years ago (maybe one, maybe three, us old guys don't keep track of time well) I received a copy of the letter you fellows are talking about. I am always reluctant to believe everything I hear, and when the copy was in my hand I was still unsure what to think of it. I took it along with me to the Bismarck sport show and at the show asked one of the Scheel's employees if he could tell me what this letter was all about. I asked in a questioning manner, not an accusing manner, but this man went off the deep end with no provocation. He addressed me with a red face, and expletives that caught me totally off guard. This man was very unprofessional and certainly not an asset to your public relations.

I am still at a loss what to think of that letter. I would expect a good businessman to not take sides at all, much less dump on his neighbors as I felt the letter did to me. Your response, and explanation is much appreciated. We hope our business is appreciated. We don't expect you to bad mouth non residence, and neither will I. My beef is the access of land and the pending destruction of a heritage. A heritage that to me is part of our national heritage. So important that it can not be measured in dollars and cents.

Steve, thank you for coming to the site. I have no desire to hurt any business in North Dakota or elsewhere, but I will boycott Gander Mountain, because their actions endanger my way of life, and the way of life I want to leave behind for my grandchildren.

As a token let me say something good about your store on 13th avenue. I purchased a Minnkota motor with auto pilot. It has given me problems from day one. I am so busy that it took me nearly a year to get it in, and six months to check it after that. It still doesn't work, but your repair people said they will stand by it even though I am slow about getting it in. That was four months ago, and I still have not made it to Fargo, but I trust Minnkota and your repair people to take care of me. Thanks.


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## buckseye

from the letter written by Steve Scheel



> Nationally, there are fewer and fewer hunters and the demographics in North Dakota mean less resident hunters every year. We need the revenue from the non-residents just to hold us even.


I still don't trust him. Money talks and bull**** walks!!! From what I understand there are more resident hunters in ND than there ever has been, national demographics... give me a break.


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## gandergrinder

Mr. Scheel,

Let me say first that I respect the fact that you will put your name to your posts and address some of these issues.

With that said I have a few things I need to say. In my perception this letter is finally being addressed because you and your industry are seeing that this issue really is important to many in ND and it is not going to go away. AND it will cost you alot of money if you don't address it.

I personally have not purchased a thing from Scheels since that letter became public. That decision is based on my perception of that letter. A letter written by an executive of the company. Now I may not be able to have as much pull in the legislature as someone high in your company but I may be able to change your mind with my dollars. So this is how I protest.

I will not support a company that does not believe in the same things I do. So if you want my business than you will have to support HPC in the next legislative session and you have to do it OPENLY. No back door politics. Its that simple.

This is where I stand. I guess its up to you to make your decision.

Jed Fluhrer


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## Ron Gilmore

For my part I am glad that you are stepping up to the plate and putting your name forward. Back in Feb of 03 I decided not to use a screen name simply because it lends more credibility and accountability to anything you put in print.

My reasons are twofold since not just hunters and fishermen look at these posts. I have continued to purchase items at Scheels since the letter, after talking to a number of employees at the store on 13th ave. I did so based on the fact that many of the people where not in favor of the letter nor supported it.

Now you can not speak for your father, but he could and should address this especially with SW in the fold and a host of mail order places available that have recognized the fact the freelance hunters are who buy the goods in the quantity that keeps the doors open.

I have returned a significant amount of goods to Gander because of the actions taken by the company. I purchased them in the first place only after doing some comparative shopping. I have not as of yet replaced those purchases simply because I like a lot of others have been unsure as to where Scheels is going to be on many of the up coming issues.

I prefer to buy from a local vendor but if the profits from my purchases are undermining the heritage and quality of hunting in ND I have no issue using a company in AR or TX or anywhere else.

From the letter it seemed that the 75% of Scheels business was being taken for granted and that Scheels wanted all of the pie. To many that had been loyal customers it was a huge slap in the face. I am not a unwilling to turn the other cheek but not if it is going to be continually slapped!


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## Dick Monson

To the ususal suspects (the Fargo Boys): Have or could you gents put your heads together and ask Sportsmans Warehouse for a letter supporting the Public Trust Doctrine and HPC? I can visualize these little notes all over the store to that effect.  What a piece of free advertising it would be. It would look nice in all the states newspapers too. Maybe even a Cannonball with a slash through it.


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## duane

So, If Scheels lends support for the doctrine AND HPC, what kind of fallout may come from those out of state hunters that MAY support their stores (Scheels) within their state..will they then threaten to boycott those stores? Where the heck does it all end guys? I have been a Scheels customer, and have been a customer of other sporting goods stores in ND and Minnesota...and have been a manager of a business myself...so I think I am qualified to give an opinion here without fear of verbal attacks.

I have read, then re-read the letter that some are referring to..and before posting here, I read it again...maybe some of you should also. The letter does not state to take away from what was already passed..simply put, it asked for no further restrictions...even stating caps being OK (is this not part of HPC?) and even increasing fees IF it would go towards creating MORE habitat. It would appear to me that since some are so unaccepting of this that you were not happy with having the first week of Waterfowl to yourself, the increase in fees, first week of upland to residents on state land, 10 days of upland for $100.00 and $100.00 if you wanted to hunt another 10+++. as it appears that you want even more? The letter did not ask to take this away. So whats the beef?

I would still enjoy hearing from some of you that IF you owned a business that could be affected by restrictions, AND you were the owner, manager or what ever, would you have done absolutely nothing and just sat there OR would you state your concerns? To me, (and this is an opinion that I do not wish to get attacked for) if you do not have this at stake it would seem to me that you would be more understanding. Has Scheels earned or deserved the right to voice a concern..as I hope some of you non business owners would if your business was being affected?

What has happened, or may be happening may be unavoidable, as it was for me living in the lakes region of Minnesota. Land values for hunting purposes have increased significantly and for the landowner that can now sell his land for more to a hunter(s) than he could for crop or livestock use, he will sell to whomever gives the most $$$. Take note here...it makes little difference if the person that offers the landowner his asking price if they are from North Dakota, Minnesota, Florida, Texas, etc. that who ever buys the land, it will no doubt be non accessible to both you and me. Are any of you interested in how much I had to pay for my lake property because of land values being driven up? Do you think that just possibly that residents from other states may have helped contribute to this increase also? I am not complaining...I paid the price as it is what I wanted. My quality of hunting and fishing also deminished around my lake as interest in this area increased over the past 10-20 years. I had to accept it!

There are no doubt many people living in ND that can afford to pay $1500++ an acre for productive hunting land, and the land grab is alive an kicking. When a landowner says SELL, there is little I or any of us can do to stop that. Seems to me that HPC makes good sense and I would support this if it meant keeping the quality of hunting good for ALL.

I understand the passion shared by many here, but hunting is not a 365 days per year venture. Some of us need to be aware that for some, there are more important things than a few months of hunting and that some actually need to make a living here....and their success (or failures) probably affect a lot more than just the owners and managers of those businesses.

Duane Braun
Frazee Minn


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## gandergrinder

Duane,
I fully understand where you are coming from and as a business owner I expect that he would say something. Obviously, he weighed the options and felt this would be a move that would pay off for him monetarily as a business owner.

We are all market participants. Each of our decisions based on our own self interest. This is basic economics. I'm not mad at Mr. Scheel for writing that letter. Just like he shouldn't be mad at me because I allocate my resources in a way that I feel is in my best interest. It's not something to get upset about its just the way it is.


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## Ron Gilmore

Duane spend your money where ever you want! I will spend mine as I see fit! Your reasoning may seem logical to you but it solves none of the issues we face in preserving thing in ND. You tell me if staying netrual or supporting HPC and disavowing the leasing of land is going to have a significant impact on stores across the upper midwest for Scheels?

From the repsones I see from other boards and especially those from MN, I doubt they will see any negaivte backlass from the cunsumer. In fact I would not doubt if current buyers from Bass Pro Shops,Cabela's and Gander would not give the another look and start buying from them instead.

many of the PM's I have gotten ask where to stop when coming through Fargo if not at Gander! I have told them to seek out Scheels and the Outdoorsmen and even Fleet Farm. Others going through GF are being given info on locations up there also.

Only a handful of people seem to think that what Gander has done and Cabela's and Bass Pro are OK. Many are questioning the corporate levels at Macks and some of the other mail order places.

I think supporting freelance hunting and legislation that supports it also is going to be met with a lot more positve than negative reactions. Guys from WI that I know asked me about Scheels in Eau Claire vs Gander and I did not hesitate to tell them to check them out. See they see Gander as local and Scheels as the outsider in the area.

This has given Scheels a real advantage in these area's from more than one angle. I do not want you to take this post as a shot at you, because that is not my intent. I am simply stating what has happened since this info has been passed to other forms that have users from FL to New Zeeland. You would be amazed at the PM's this has brought my way and 98% are looking for a store that will not stab them in the back while parading around pretending to be something they are not!

One guy said shopping at Gander or Cabela's would be like the Jews supporting Hitler even after the death camps where made public! He is from FL and travels to ND and other states each fall.

I wonder how the Corp boards at these companies will feel when they read his letter!


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## TANATA

Cooper said:


> Tanata
> 
> You made it sound like you worked for sportsmans warehouse in an earlier post. Do you think it is fair that you are harping on Scheels?


I wasn't trying to harp on anyone, just stating what I feel about the new building and how I feel I'm treated at their store. I try my best to be a North Dakota hunter when I'm on this forum not a sportsmans warehouse employee.


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## defendthehunt

As I probably have a better understanding of the point of view expressed in that letter, and since it continues to be a point of contention to some, l will address it in spite of my thoughts to avoid it. Please look at this from a business perspective for just a minute and know that in the end I want what is the best combination of business and individual hunting rights.

When ND started selling hunting licenses online, it hurt the retailers in this state. Non-residents who previously had to stop in a North Dakota store to buy their license (and almost always bought something extra), started buying their licenses online. Without a reason to stop for licenses they simply bought everything they needed ahead of time, instead of spending money in our state.

North Dakota shortened the season for non-residents - which again hurt many small businesses in the state. In most waterfowl seasons, the water freezes long before the season ends, so by pushing the season back one week for non-residents you lesson the amount of time that people can hunt in North Dakota, and thereby lesson the number of hunters coming to North Dakota.

Now, with that said there is nothing wrong with limiting the number of non-residents to some degree. In fact, I agree with many of you that this needs to be done in order to protect our hunting heritage. However, we need these non-residents (in the right numbers) and the tourism and tax dollars they bring to our state in order to continue to protect these rights. These non-resident hunters are a major portion of our ND tourism dollars which are used to protect public land, including hunting interests. What was expressed in the letter was simply alternatives to HOW to limit these numbers without further hurting North Dakota Small businesses. An Example from the letter is Electronic Licensing.

If Non-residents HAD to buy there licenses at North Dakota retailers, not through the internet, it would help both our small businesses and protect our hunting rights. Electronic licensing, as done in Minnesota, would allow only a certain number of licenses to be sold. So you could in fact limit the number of hunters AND have them shop at a North Dakota business! This is what that letter suppors - giving our North Dakota businesses a better chance to capture more of the non-resident dollars.

Again - I want both of my boys and my daughter (when she is old enough) hunting with me on public land, but I also want my business to succeed. As for my support of any legislative action, it would have to support both of these ideals. There are ways to do both - which is what the letter expressed.

Thanks for all the thoughts on the topic. I appreciate the candor and the willingness of people to step up and post their name with their comments.

Plainsman - let me know what happens with the trolling motor. Between Steve (our in house motor service man) and Minnkota, there are very few of these that we cannot take care handle fairly quickly.


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## Field Hunter

Sounds like there is a compromise here....you want the NRs to buy their licenses in ND and spend money in your stores when they're here in the state, I don't have a problem with that, in Fact I think it's a great idea as long it's in an electronic format. I in return would like to see a public notice that Scheels is supporting the issues of the freelance ND resident....HPC comes to mind. From a business standpoint....and I've never owned a business....it seems as if this IS THE TIME for Scheels to get on board with the states sportsmen. I enjoy supporting your store and would bring all my business to you if the HPC would be backed by you to legislators in the upcoming session. I will bet MANY more will switch to you as well. By the way.....I remember tagging along with my father about 40 years ago to the downtown Scheels store on the corner of Broadway to get one of the "new" weber kettles, and later purchasing a Schwinn Bicycle from the same store.... I want to continue to enjoy shopping at your stores....please give me a reason to do so n the future.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

> When ND started selling hunting licenses online, it hurt the retailers in this state. Non-residents who previously had to stop in a North Dakota store to buy their license (and almost always bought something extra), started buying their licenses online. Without a reason to stop for licenses they simply bought everything they needed ahead of time, instead of spending money in our state.


This is a very interesting point that I had not considered. Steve, I suggest you continue to monitor these forums and provide insight from your (or a businesses) perspective! Thanks for your feedback, it is appreciated by all even if not completely agreed upon by all! :beer:


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## KEN W

defendthehunt....did I miss something somewhere?....I still don't see anywhere that Scheels has changed that letter to not support further restrictions on non-res.So everything said about Scheels is still true.



defendthehunt said:


> So you could in fact limit the number of hunters AND have them shop at a North Dakota business! This is what that letter suppors - giving our North Dakota businesses a better chance to capture more of the non-resident dollars.


I would be in favor of your idea of buying licenses locally as long as it is like Minn. system of electronic licensing.However....I don't see how it would be workable if there was a cap and a lottery was necessary because of more hunters than licenses available.

I would hate to see a person drive all the way here and then go into Scheels to find out that there weren't anymore licenses available.

ND DID NOT shorten the waterfowl season for non-res.It opens on the same day as it has for as long as I can remember....the sat closest to Oct. 1.It did however open it 1 week earlier for res. only.This is based on the high production.This is a great perk for rewarding us for living here.If we get shorter season lengths in the future,I would guess we would not be allowed that option.

By the way...welcome to the site.I am not anti-Scheels....in fact one of my daughters works for Scheels in Minot.She loves it.


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## goosehtr4life

:beer: Ken, you are correct, this misinformation has been going on for some time. The Waterfowl opener is the SAME weekend it has been for over thiry years.... No out of state hunter is losing any hunting days at all. The only thing that changed is the residents opener moved up a week...Let's please keep the facts straight!!!


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## Drakekiller

Steve
Welcome to the sight. Hopefully by working together on these issues we can get things worked out.

Duane
I need to address a few mistakes you made on your last post. To start with you missed the date of Mr. Scheel's letter 12/16/02. This was before any of the new laws were voted on, before last session started. Number two, the resident waterfowl week is not a law change. It was a extra week offered by the US fish and Wildlife service to States, including Mn.(by the way your state chose not to take the first year) According to N.D. past law it was our Governor's decision to make it resident only. If we are not offered the extra week next year we will not have a resident opener. Third, cost of small game and waterfowl licenses are both $85 each not $100. You also have to pay a one time general game and habitat stamp for $13. For many years in N.D. licenses were a real bargain, for $75 a NR could hunt from Sept. 1 - Jan. 1 approx. 127 days and for $10 two weeks of the best waterfowl hunting in the world. It is my feeling that our new fees are fair and were way over due.By the way these fee changes added I believe over million dollars to the G&F. I would be against raising the prices anymore as a way to restrict more Nrs from coming here. Thanks for posting your name and state.

Kevin Hayer


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## duane

Drakekiller said:


> December 2002
> RE: Non-Resident Hunter Issue
> 
> Steve Scheel quote...
> "we can live with the limit of 30,000 on waterfowl and we can understand the early season for residents only".
> 
> Seems to me that he was referring to what was emminent then...even if the letter was pre passage. As a business manager, I still find little to get so God awful worked up about...what business that could stand to be so greatly affected (and it sounds like it has) would not be concerned?
> 
> DK, my guess is that IF your shirt was removed that we would find the letter from Steve Scheel tatooed on your back?  Backing through the thread you posted it seemed all was square to the world until one person asked about Scheels and the letter immediately popped up...again. If it bothers you that bad, I can only suggest professional counseling.  (I have not figured out how to use the emoticons as I am semi computer retarded)
> 
> As far as license cost, to hunt upland...$85.00 for the small game, $13.00 for the general game stamp and $2.00 for the certificate=$100.00.
> Waterfowl license is $85.00 + a $15.00 Federal migratory bird stamp also equals $100.00. This is how I arrived at this and this is what I would have paid...$200.00 IF I chose to hunt both. I would assume that if I chose to hunt upland for an additional 10 days (or 2 5 day periods) that it would cost just $75.00.
> 
> As far as the first week, I understand the logistics and your point on the first week for residents only for waterfowl AND that Minnesota chose not to participate (which makes sense since there are no ducks here anyway) but understand that as a NR with his face pressed up against the glass window looking in at all you guys having fun...I just want to be part of the festivities!
> _______________________________________________
> "I am not an animal..I am a human being"


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## defendthehunt

You are right, i was wrong. We residents did get another week, not the other way around. Living only 600 yards from MN makes you see the 'negative' of an opening weekend without family/friends. Instead I should be celebrating another weekend of duck stroganoff and duck wild rice soup. Thanks for the reminder. 

Electronic licensing works in many states, whether it be to fill a certain quota of tags or simply to allow the information to get from Game/Fish to the license seller faster. I am sure there is a state out there doing a commendable job of this that we coudl 'borrow' the program from. With a goal (as that letter was intended to state) to bring these license and incidental sales back to the retailer.

Heck - we all know the State is going to get the license money in either format, so let's give the retailers every opportunity to get all hunters into our small bussinesses so we can continue to grow North Dakota small business while supporting hunting. (and of course give the state more tax dollars in the process.)


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## Ron Gilmore

"As far as the first week, I understand the logistics and your point on the first week for residents only for waterfowl AND that Minnesota chose not to participate (which makes sense since there are no ducks here anyway) but understand that as a NR with his face pressed up against the glass window looking in at all you guys having fun...I just want to be part of the festivities! "

So Duane why is it then that you are so upset with us for taking GM and Cabala's to task for reducing the amount of land available for you and others from MN,FL,NC,NE,CO,IA,CA,MI,WI,SD,UT,AZ,AL,AK,WA,PA,OH,IL,TX,OK, just to name a few states. Seems you want what is best for you with little thought of 5-10 years from now. Like DK and many others here I have 30 years of hunting this state. Some of the time as a NR. I would like you to tell me how the change in the way things are have benefited anyone other than the G/O.

Certainly not the businesses in Gackle,or Cleveland or many other small towns since the G/O have moved in! Steele has been hollering about the restrictions, but from talking with a number of hunters that had been going and staying in Steele who are now seeking another area because of the G/O operations. This means that next year they may be sitting in those sloughs you have been hunting or competing in a field down wind from you!

It is time to really analyze what the beef you have really is.


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## Bob Kellam

what would be the ramifications of putting electronic licensing stations in the retail outlets?

Would it be any different than the "Powerball" stations that are in the stores?

Or woluld it be a dumb idea to have that printed license from home to have a validation stamp?

Example, You buy a license over the internet. You print the license on your home printer. In order for that license to be valid it would need to be stamped at a retail outlet, recorded and verified to GNF. This might stop or slow down some of the "cheating" that is going on with people that uses an alias to obtain another license.

Just a thought.

Bob


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## KEN W

IF there is a cap and lottery in the future....I see no other way than through the GNF dept.Either over the phone or internet for waterfowl licenses.You want to talk about ticked off hunters....just let them drive here and find no licenses available.

For upland...they can be bought over the counter.But there should still be the option to get it over the internet or phone.

There are lots of hunters that want to hunt the first day morning they are here.To have to wait for the stores to open would waste a half day of hunting.Same for the idea of getting it stamped at a retail store to validate it.


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## Dick Monson

I agree with Bob, electronic licensing is the way to go. It could be done both by home computer or a PC in the local store. I'd like to see it for upland too as there are cheaters out there that fib the days.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Once again a Nodak thread is causing some high quality brainstorming! Good wook guys! :beer:


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## DJRooster

I think it is good that Scheel's is back in touch with it's customer base.
Ditto with Gander Mountain. Now they can decide who they want as their customers.


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## Drakekiller

Duane

Quote
"I have read,then re-read the letter that some are refering to.. and before posting here, I read it again... maybe some of you should also."

How many times would you have to read this letter to see the date if it were not pointed out to you? Maybe you should do more reading and less posting!

Quote
"Seems to me that he was referring to what was emminet then...even if the letter was pre passage."

To educate you once again, for the last few sessions bills to raise the fees have failed, so for you to say that before last session when this letter was sent it was emenet to pass is not true, you were wrong.

Quote
"It would appear to me that since some are so unaccepting of this that you were not happy with having the first week of waterfowl to yourself,the increase in fees, the first week of upland to residents on state land, 10 days of upland for$100.00 and $100.00 if you wanted to hunt another10+++. as it appears that you want even more?"

You were complaining about the fee change. You were wrong yet again.Can't you admit when you are wrong? $85 plus $85 plus$13 plus $2=$185. The cost of a federal waterfowl stamp has nothing to do with N.D. raising its fees. If you want to buy another small game license it would cost you $85 not $75.

This forum is the best place to get informed on the issuses. Duane if you are confused on anymore issues post them up hopefully someone can educate you.

Kevin


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## Dick Monson

Would someone in the know pm me the contact person for publicity at SW?
Thanks, Dick     :wink:


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## duane

Gilman, please go back and read through my past posts. There is not one single thing that I said that would be against your concerns about Gander OR Cabelas...not one. I am behind you 100%!

DK, sorry, it was not meant to be an issue about a $5 or $10.00 difference is license fee as what I more or less referred to was that IF I hunted BOTH ducks AND Pheasants...buying one license each, it would cost me $200.00. Although I did state $85.00 for a second license I note that the 7 key is right next to the 8 key on my key board and I did not do a re-check...so, $75.00 popped up...I knew it was $85.00..and yes you are right, the federal stamp does not reflect state charges...I am only stating what the total is to hunt ducks and upland if I do not hunt elsewhere.
State waterfowl...$85.00...good for 14 days or 2 7 day periods
Fed stamp...$15.00
Small game...$85.00...good for 10 days or 2 5 day periods
General game...$13.00
Certificate...$2.00
Grand total...$200.00

The only think that I wished to elude to was that it appears to me that each time a person posts anything about Scheels, you need to make it a point to repost the letter. That is my only issue here...obviously, unless a person is retarded, they can see the mission you are on. As a business manager, this is my only concern.

Also, re-read what I stated. I have not complained once about the cost of the license...I can afford it. But, note the content..it may be somehat anecdotal but it was meant to be under good intent.


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## Ron Gilmore

"As a business manager, this is my only concern"

Duane first off my response has been a cumulative of all of your posts. Simply put as a business owner and former manager for three different types of business, I would not nor even consider risking the alienation of 50% of my customer base. So in trying to reconcile all the things you have said I am asking plain and simple, what and why is it wrong for anyone to question past actions and want to know what future actions a company is making?

DK reposting of this letter is as relevant as anything else connected to this issue. It has engaged those involved at Scheels which is a good thing, and has helped shed some light on an issue instead of rumor and speculation. Hence all win even if they disagree.

So as a business manager would it be a smart choice to risk the loss of 50% of your customer base to save 25%? Would you retain your job as a manager if things went against you because of your choices?

I am not boycotting Scheels nor am I advocating doing so, however actions over the coming months can change my position as I am sure it will for a significant number of others.

While Avg Joe in small town ND might be taken for granted as to being uninformed on these issues, let me assure you that is not the case. Many come and view these topics especially with winter setting in. Most are connected or know someone that is connected to the net. Unlike in 01 and to some extent in 03 few thought these issues where affecting them. Since then things have changed with a Gov race focusing on hunting, legislative races also. It no longer is a sleeping giant.

These people spend money and if there is one thing I have found is that ND people do forgive but do not forget. Something that Corp people in urban locations tend to not know.

You can lose 10 customers in Mpls as 10 will replace them. In ND 10 will not be replaced with new ones. I understand this very well. I wonder if that had occurred to you?

Just trying to give you a on the ground perspective.


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## defendthehunt

Bob _ that is an outstanding IDEA!

They can get their license Online - which would allow the state to regulate the number of licenses, should that become necessary. However they would have to pick up a $1 validation stamp at a north Dakota business outlet. This also allows Game and Fish to have the EXACT dates, no cheating as many of you have stated.

In addition - Our North Dakota businesses could have internet access to allow them to log onto the license site and handle the whole transaction, including validation stamp in the store.

I think there is some real merit in this idea. Thanks for the help with the brain-storming. :beer:

Steve


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## defendthehunt

ps.

Ken - It was only a few years ago that we all had to go to a retailer to our licenses, as you could not buy them online. In addition I would guess most of us are going to stop into a store within a week or 2 before the season anyway to get shells, more dekes, etc. I don't think this would be that big an inconvienience for that many hunters, and it could certainly bring back some of the dollars the reatilers lost when everyone started buying their licenses online.


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## gaddyshooter

Bob---very good idea about the license needing to be validated by a ND business. Would make the business owners happy to get customers in the stores and still asure hunters driving long distances that they are assured a license. I usually spend two weeks prior to my trip packing and getting everything ready and rechecking to see what I have forgotten. Then from our area is it about a 20 hour drive to Minot, which we drive straight through, with the three of us taking shifts, only stopping for fuel and food. I would really hate to do all that preparation and driving to get to Scheels in Minot and be told that all the waterfowl licenses have been sold. :******: :******: So, again, very good idea Bob.

Steve welcome to the thread and good to hear all different points of view on this one. I think Bob has came up with a good solution for ya there. We always make a few stops into the Minot store every time we come up there anyways, but would give us a reason to make that the first stop. My dad seems to have bad luck with getting holes in his waders, and has had to buy new ones from ya the last two years we have been up there.


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## Dick Monson

> Would make the business owners happy to get customers in the stores...


I'm sure it would make bussiness owners very happy. With no investment, they would still reap extra business. But what are they willing to put on the table in return? Surely these business owners would be willing to step up for the guarenteed $$$$$$$$$? Would they actively oppose commercialization? Would they lobby legislators against commercialization? Would businesses contribute to public access as the sportsmen do? Would businesses press for community access programs?

Last session it was all take and no give. That is NOT accecptable.


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## MRN

Dick,

As always, I enjoy reading your perspective on things.
"All take, no give." That's pretty good.

M.


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## KEN W

defendthehunt said:


> ps.
> 
> Ken - It was only a few years ago that we all had to go to a retailer to our licenses, as you could not buy them online. In addition I would guess most of us are going to stop into a store within a week or 2 before the season anyway to get shells, more dekes, etc. I don't think this would be that big an inconvienience for that many hunters, and it could certainly bring back some of the dollars the reatilers lost when everyone started buying their licenses online.


But there was no cap and no lottery.Which is very possible in the future.

Alright lets ask.....We will start a poll for non-res. on this site.See if they are willing to give up the first morning's hunt to wait for a retail store to open to get or validate their license.


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## djleye

I would guess that the majority of people are going to get here before the morning of the first day, If they are like most people they would get here a day early to scout, relax, tip a few cold ones before the hunt wouldn't they???


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## curty

In my experience of running a Motel I can say most of the guys come the night before after the stores close. A lot of the guys who come here dont need to scout because they already have there plans made where they are to hunt. A big majority know the landowners and have spoken with them before they left.Seems like a good idea,but not sure if its feasable.Also for the late afternoon travelers only the border towns would be affected since they must validate before the stores close...most small towns dont stay open all evening like in the bigger cities.
Although if it did come into effect I would try to become an official validator since were open 20 hours a day 7 days a week. :lol:


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## Bob Kellam

No disrespect here Ken but if I go to another state to hunt I ALWAYS go a day early to scout, check out the hotel, eat, relax, shop etc. However I have been told by some that I am not normal though   

Bob


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## KEN W

None taken....I don't remember the numbers....but I think at least half non-res. come from Minn.All you have to do is sit on 94 and watch for the Minn. plates on Sat mornings.You guys are all talking about hunters that go for a week.Especially upland.No way do they want to wait for the stores to open before hunting.

I would guess most come on opening weekend and teachers conv.I can't believe they want to give up the first morning.

Do you really think they will come out on the Friday before pheasant season or the Wed before teachers conv to scout?

Most of those hunters are weekenders.For the guy who comes for a week...yes they probably don't have a problem with this idea.


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## Field Hunter

I'd agree with Bob. When we travel to Sask to snow goose hunt, we know that the province doesn't allow Sunday hunting. We will travel Saturday, get our licenses across the border, scout Sunday and be ready for the next 3-6 days of hunting.......Isn't the scouting part of the hunt? If you can afford the trip to ND or the trip to Canada, isn't getting there a day earlier to SCOUT, PLAN, and not just be a shooter worth the extra effort? I think it is.

I think it would be a great idea to get the NR's back into the mom and pop retail stores to have both electronic licensing and internet available. Maybe they could purchase their licenses by mail only and use the internet to check on availability, in the event there is a cap. How about either having to PURCHASE the PLOTS guide over the internet or picking up a FREE copy at Scheels on their way through.

Of course for the Sportmen of the state to support this we might need something like say, a support statement for realistic caps, a statement opposing the rapid commercialization of the sport, a call to PURCHASE public land as opposed to just short term leases. I think the electronic purchasing of licenses would be a great way to work with the local businesses and to work TOGETHER.


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## Bob Kellam

Well how about putting a provision in the thing to the fact that the validation stamp must be dated within 24 hours of the first hunting day.

??

Bob


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## defendthehunt

Dick Monson - I would have to beg to differ on a couple of points here.



> I'm sure it would make bussiness owners very happy. With no investment, they would still reap extra business. But what are they willing to put on the table in return? Surely these business owners would be willing to step up for the guarenteed $$$$$$$$$? Would they actively oppose commercialization? Would they lobby legislators against commercialization? Would businesses contribute to public access as the sportsmen do? Would businesses press for community access programs?
> 
> Last session it was all take and no give. That is NOT accecptable.


Those of us involved in North Dakota businesses have a HUGE investment here. We have our blood, sweat and tears, (not to mention capital) invested in our businesses success, as do all those who work with us. Yes, it would make us happier.

Speaking of all take and no give, that is exactly what the State did when they 'took' licensing out of the retailers and put it online and in doing so they took sales out of North dakota businesses. All I am advocating is the opportunity to get that business back.

Let us not forget that every dollar these hunters spend in North Dakota benefits North Dakota. Having Non residents as well as residents spending time (and hopefully some money) in our North Dakota businesses leads to increased tax and tourism dollars that benefit us all through more monies for public land - thus you are guaranteed more $$$. In addition all hunting retailers are also already contributing to public lands through Federal taxes (Pittman-Robertson) placed on hunting items such as guns and ammo.

In the end it is a benefit to North Dakota and to all of us who live here to get as many people as possible shopping in our great state.


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## Dick Monson

dth, thank you for the civil conversation.

All of us have a huge investment in North Dakota. All of us. We are also part of


> these hunters


. It was exactly the point we made in the last session.

If you review the NDSU Hunter Expenditure study, you will acknowledge that North Dakotans spend more per day hunting and hunt more days. Yet they are being driven out of hunting by commercialization. Many have quit already. If we look at what is good for ND, why replace the higher spending group with a lower spending group? Who would spend a dollar to gain 50 cents? Only the business gaining the 50 cents. Which is not good for ND's business climate as a whole, only select businesses.

NDGF should have long ago moved to electric licenses. It is license management. Profiting from the our wildlife is not a century code or state constituation position. The exact opposite is in place.

So, I am still wondering what businesses will support the hunting customer in the next session? :-?


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## Bob Kellam

Mr. Scheel, Steve
Here is the link to the NDSU paper that Dick made reference to. The report is 500 pages total, this is the 2 page summery. It opened my eyes a little wider when I read the report.

Any comments?

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/Overview1_NDGF.pdf

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/media/Overview2_NDGF.pdf

I am not going to dispute the fact that Tourist Dollars are important to North Dakota. Every person that visits may fall in love with North Dakota and decide to stay like Leadshot and goose from this site. That being said I still think that the link between the tourism industry and economic development is transparent at best. It boils down to the main question on many threads of this site, Who benefits from the commercialization of North Dakotas Wildlife Natural Resources?

Bob


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

dth, I was in your Bismarck store last night. I found a plethera of items I am going to buy........somewhere. The fact that you are on the forum, talking in a civil manner, and seem to be open to communication on the topics that are important to us means a lot. I think hearing your perspective on the topics helps us understand the issues better, but I hope you feel the same. In my humble opinion, it seems that the ND resident hunters have already given up (more like, had taken away) quite a bit. If you want to see a solid increase in business, support the us and the legislation we support. There have been numerous threads talking about how much money we have spent on hunting purchases this year. I buy half of my stuff at your store (convenience of locale) and the other half from Cabela's, GM, SW, and etc... when traveling or online. I would venture to bet, I would go from 50% to 90% in your store, and I think others would as well. As a matter of fact, I would start proving it to you if you can show me the way to do it!


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## Dick Monson

dth, an astute viewer pointed out that tax monies collected are an add-on. It is not a "contribution" by the business, but paid for by we consumers. Pittman-Robertson costs the business nothing, simply passed on to us.

I ask again, when and what are commercial hunting busineses going to contribute to community access programs? Show support for the best customer base? Commercialization is the downfall of the sport, and a black hole for these businesses such as yours. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

It's a lot like the little red hen. Everybody wants to eat the bread, but they don't show up to grind the wheat.


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## farmerj

Gentlemen,

I have to ask,

As an employee of Sportsman's Warehouse.
This topic has been highjacked. It is now about Scheel's and there connection to g/o and the publics view of them.

Could someone please take this to a new topic please.

We aer two seperate companies. I for one do not want a company I chose to work for drug threw something for the actions of another company and I am sure you would not like it either.

Thanks


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## Bob Kellam

Continued on the Small Business thread


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## Drakekiller

Let me start with some stats

NDSU Resident and Nonresident Hunter Angler Expenditures, Characteristics. and Economic Effects 2001-2002

Total spending in Rural areas resident 213.4 mil. NR 48.4

Total spending hunting and fishing resident 402.7 mil. NR 65.9

Total hunting expenditures 166.4 mil.

Total fishing expenditures 302.1 mil.

Waterfowl hunters 2003
Canada - The three prairie prov. Manitoba, Sask.,Ont.=Canadians 26,930, Noncanadian 18,512 total 45,442
N.D. Resident 30,771, Nonresident 26,066 total 56,837
S.D. Resident 27,942, Nonresident 4,717 total 32,659

2002 N.D. waterfowl hunters= Resident 34,000 nonresident 30,000

2003 nonresident pheasant hunters increased 9.8% to 25,072 according to G&F (post fee increase) total NR small game license sales 28,687.

Note
In 2002 nonresident waterfowl license cost was $10 after purchase of $75 small game license, a educated guess that 15% were bought just in case an opportunity presented itself. Subtract 15% which is 4,500 then take that from 30,000 equals 25,500.Compare that to 2003 numbers 26,066 and we still would have an increase in NR waterfowl hunters even with the fee change. Also note the change in resident waterfowl hunters from 2002 to 2003. In the year 2000 we had 35,992 resident waterfowl hunters.
In four years we have lost around 5,000 resident waterfowl hunters. How is this effecting N.D businesses that sell trucks, guns, decoys, boats, boots, calls, and all the other related products and services?

Kevin Hayer


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## rustygunner

SW will match any ones price on their products that anyother outdoor store have in stock...FWI


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## farmerj

rustygunner said:


> SW will match any ones price on their products that any other outdoor store have in stock...FWI


We will but...We won't....

As Gander Mtn and some of the others are deep discounting their decoys and "seasonal" stuff. SW won't and CAN'T match the price. It is below our cost and we won't sell it for that.

Now....At SW we have one season. Outdoors. If you need something no matter what time of the year it is, we will possibly have it. If we don't have it six months latter it is because we discontinued and sold it out.


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## 870 XPRS

I inquired about this same thing. It was very tempting for a guy to buy ghg's at gander for $65, but I will not purchase items from that store anymore. So, as I had heard earlier SW would match prices. As you quoted earlier however farmerj....we will but we won't. Moreso it is just we won't. I totally understand the concept of not going below cost prices, as any business would not want to lose money on a customer purchase. Here is where I see it different however, I talked to a couple guys and they made calls to managers, and eventually it got to the store manager nate. They were willing to take 5% off. I didn't say this in the store, but to myself I was thinking wow. A lot of places sell ghg's for 135, and a lot sell them for 130. SW had them priced at 139.99 for the lookers, now this exceptional deal, you know "we match prices but we don't" taking 5% off takes it down to 132.99. So i start thinking to myself, wow this is an exceptional deal, I shoudl probably buy 6-7 dozen. I used to hate scheels because they were the only circus in town, but as stores move in and deceit starts to become a problem, I find myself wanting to give all of my business to that store and that store alone. If it's not a big deal farmerj, would explain your concept of "we will but we won't" match prices to me. The only reason i bring this about is because I realize that 132.99 for 6 ghg's is not below coset and not even half of matching a price. I also realize that matching 65 for 6 ghg's is not cost effective unless you are trying to get rid of inventory, and that is not how SW operates. However, at the same time I feel it alianates a possible long time customer by not providing him with adequate customer satisfaction. As a consumer concerned about ND heritage and the longevity of said heritage, I would be willing to pay more at a different store than gander for the same product. However, a 5% discount that brings a price to a few dollars over competitors normal price just does not seem right to me. I've rambled on about nothing for too long, but as you have defended the store time and time again, I would like to hear an explanation behing your "we will but we won't" comment.

I look forward to your comment(s).

870


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## farmerj

Noy even going to comment on that situation. I wasn't part of the transaction or conversation. I don't know the full story. I would have to look, but for some reason, our full-body flocked I thought were going for $129.

Nate IS the final word in the store. Above him, is a corporate decision. To second guess any of those is suicide for me.

All I can say is don't let that one instance set your mind on the entire store.


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## BB

My friend has a similar price matching experience with GHG at a SW in the cities....It was one of those 'we will but we won't' deals. He ended up getting 10% off but they would not match a competitors price.
Not that the pot has to be stirred anymore but.....I was in SW (**** Rapids) and noticed a brochure on the gun counter for a guide service in North Dakota. For ducks, geese, and upland. They had one of those plastic display things a bunch of brochures right there for everyone to take home. Is this considered supporting outfitters by giving them a place to advertise?


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## mallard

I found this out on the avery website.The GHG decoys that gander mountain was selling were factory seconds.They probably bought them for pennies on the dollar and could sell them for a much reduced price.I also learned that avery will not sell any factory seconds in the future because of the problems and customer satisfaction issues.


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## mallard

SW has many very good VHS tapes 50% off right now,including honker talk for 10.00$


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