# Hunters get choice on ducks By Doug Leier



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Hunters get choice on ducks
Doug Leier, The Forum
Published Sunday, September 10, 2006

About 15 years ago I attended my first Game and Fish Department advisory board meeting. I was a fisheries and wildlife management student at North Dakota State University, and had a goal of one day working in the natural resource field. I decided it might be a positive learning experience to attend this open public meeting, and it sounded like more fun than studying for a statistics exam.

I still recall then-Game and Fish Director Lloyd Jones discussing the upcoming waterfowl season and regulations. Having hunted waterfowl, I knew full well the necessary difference between regulations for ducks as compared to upland game like pheasants and grouse.

I also understood migratory species required more coordination between states, and specific species of ducks such as canvasbacks couldn't withstand the harvest levels that blue-winged teal could. Then and now it was a complicated equation balancing hunter opportunity with buffering the species needing protection.

For the most part it made sense, but I still recall the question I asked, and smile at most advisory board meetings when similar questions or comments are made. For the record, I asked, "Wouldn't it be easier to just set the limit at three or four ducks and not have all these restrictions for shooting five or six?"

The response is still etched in my mind. "Are you looking for a job?" Jones replied, in essence summarizing the goal of wildlife managers and desire of hunters to have less-cumbersome regulations.

What I've learned since then is that setting waterfowl limits, seasons, rules and regulations is a science, and it should be. What I mean is that biologists, researchers and administrators do the best they can with the data and tools they have for all vested interests - hunters and ducks alike.

Such is the case with a new set of duck regulations that will be in effect this fall. The new slate of regulations is called Hunter's Choice, which in concept is supported by hunters responding in a nationwide survey last year. Results from the survey indicate that about half the duck hunters preferred making selective choices within a daily bag limit, rather than having shortened or closed seasons for certain species, or reduced bag limits and season lengths for more abundant species to protect those species that have less harvest potential.

Under Hunter's Choice this year, the duck season is 74 days for all species, so there is no closed season on pintails and canvasbacks while the regular duck season is still open. In the past few years, the seasons for pintails and canvasbacks had closed after 39 days.

To allow for a full season on pintails and canvasback, hunters will have to make some choices. The daily limit structure looks like this:

This fall the daily limit on ducks is five per day. The daily duck limit is the same as the mallard limit, which is five per day and 10 in possession. For instance, if all you shoot only drake mallards, you can take five per day. If your first duck is a gadwall, for instance, only four drake mallards are allowed the rest of the day.

The daily limit of five ducks can include only one hen mallard, or one pintail, or one canvasback. If you shoot a pintail as your first duck of the day, it would be illegal to shoot a hen mallard or a canvasback the rest of the day. If you shoot a hen mallard as your first duck of the day, you can't take a pintail or canvasback or another hen mallard. In recent years when the pintail and canvasback seasons were open, hunters could take one of each, plus two hen mallards.

Those are the nuts and bolts of the waterfowl regulations this fall. Hunters no longer have to worry about taking an illegal duck on their first shot of the day. On the other hand, if a hunter takes a pintail, canvasback or hen mallard, they'll have to be extra cautious the rest of the day.

North Dakota is one of five states in the Central Flyway adopting Hunter's Choice regulations on a trial basis. South Dakota is also included. Five other Central Flyway states will continue with a closed season for pintails and canvasbacks after 39 days.

At the end of the proposed three-year trial, waterfowl managers will evaluate the merits of Hunter's Choice, for ducks and for hunters.

As waterfowl season approaches take a minute to review rules and regulations. License vendors should have the 2006-07 North Dakota waterfowl guide by Sept. 15 or so. It's also available on the Game and Fish Department's website at gf.nd.gov.

You'll notice a few changes and hopefully Hunter's Choice is a step closer to balancing hunter wants with sound wildlife management.

Leier is a biologist. He can be reached by email at [email protected]


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Bob Kellam said:


> Hunters get choice on ducks
> Doug Leier, The Forum
> Published Sunday, September 10, 2006
> 
> ...


This one statement tells me why the feds in the field DO NOT like this plan.


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## NDMALLARD (Mar 9, 2002)

I have mixed emotiions about "hunters choice" I can see the reasoning behind it, but I think it is going to put a lot of honest hunters in difficult situations. Personally, I shoot mostly greenheads and an occasional bull pintail if it looks decent.

We have had days were 4 guys have shot 20 greenheads and we have had days were we have shot 13-14 greenheads and the rest hens. Bird color and poor light conditions can make picking out the greenheads very tough. With the prevailing wind from the W-NW most fall mornings everybody stares into the sun making the job harder, harder yet if you try to double out of a flock. I am afraid too many "mistakes" are going to end up tossed in the weeds. Oh well, I certainly will try my best to keep it "green"


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

What did we do before it was two hens per day? Were we not in the same situation? We sat in the decoys this morning and watched as the mallards circled. Granted, it was long after legal shooting hours that most hunters are going to be able to distinguish the difference between a hen and a drake but then again, some just shoot because the ducks are there.

So, what is the answer?


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

The people that frequent this and other sites of this nature are not average hunters. Most of you folks live and breath hunting. The average hunter has trouble identifying the various species of ducks when they are in hand. There will be too many people making mistakes. More hunters will be fined and ducks stuffed in the mud. Bob K was right 15 years ago. Cut the limit and make it simple.


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

I hate it when I hear people make those kind of statements..."Stuff ducks in the mud"! Here's the deal...When you get a drivers licence...You are required to study for it to pass and become a driver. When you purchase a Hunting licence you should also do the necessary studying that requires you to be compliant with the law... And that includes bird identification. And if you don't...Then you DESERVE to be ticketed. Probably not a popular answer with some, but you need to do your homework!


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Then there will be the guys going to Canada and shooting a limit of 8 ducks a day with the only limitation being that they can't shoot more than 3 pintails.

Not to mention te guys in the Southern US that will still be able to shoot the pins, hens and cans that we've had to stop shooting.

I think it should be like everything else....if it's good for one then it should be good for everyone..why not make the hunters choice nation wide? Do a three year experiment for everyone.

I think it's going to be a nighmare for enforcement.....most MN guys that I've talked to haven't heard a thing about this and for the most part many of the MN guys are hunting water and shooting divers....One pintail OR one Canvasback? Who are we fooling....not to mention that most guys aren't going to have clue as to what an imature hen pintail of canvasback even look like on the wing much less in hand.


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## goosegrinder (Mar 4, 2005)

maybe the NoDak game and fish department will put a "highlighted" statement on non-resident licenses stating there are new regulations this year and to be aware of them. Something to consider.The new law seems pretty simple to follow,just gotta ID the bird before you pull the trigger.

Alex


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> I hate it when I hear people make those kind of statements..."Stuff ducks in the mud"!


There is a lot of truth it his statement, weather you like it or not! Why you may ask? Well, no one is perfect! People are going to shoot 2 hens and end up ditching one!


> Here's the deal...When you get a drivers licence...You are required to study for it to pass and become a driver.


 You are not *required* to study ducks before you go hunting. Hell half of us cannot i.d. young greenheads from hens this early in the season.


> When you purchase a Hunting licence you should also do the necessary studying that requires you to be compliant with the law... And that includes bird identification.


 In a percefet world YES!


> And if you don't...Then you DESERVE to be ticketed.


 I agree 100%
Now how about the new hunters. Example would be your son or daughter who you are bringing to the field for the first or second time. They don't have the "in-field" experience as most people.

I personally don't like the Hunters Choice! It makes it easier to violate the law.


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## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

Goosegrinder, I think that would be a good idea


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

Maverick...I DIDN'T SAY People were required to study ducks I.D. before they go hunting. They PROBABLY should. Duck identification is not that difficult. If you can memerise all of the logo's of the 32 NFL teams...I think most people could I.D. a duck if they had too.
Something that might help everybody...Is instead of shooting at right on the nut of a 1/2 hour before sunrise...Hold up and wait a lil bit, til you can for sure identify what you are shooting. Everybody makes mistakes...but a lil' extra daylight sure makes a difference!


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> Duck identification is not that difficult


For you and I it's not, but for the people who only hunt 2 to 3 times a year it is! Also between species it's not hard but between gender it is, and if we are allowed 4 or 5 mallards the odds are against us to only shoot 1 hen! I am not saying I can't ID birds. Hell I bet I can ID them better than 3/4 of the people here,but the earlier parts of the season is where the trouble is going to start. Not with you and I but the 14 year old who just got his liscence and gun, and is hunting for the first time!



> Something that might help everybody...Is instead of shooting at right on the nut of a 1/2 hour before sunrise...Hold up and wait a lil bit, til you can for sure identify what you are shooting. Everybody makes mistakes...but a lil' extra daylight sure makes a difference!


I know I will(and most guys here) be, but the other 90% of hunter are probably not going to (my assumption). I guess I just don't like HC. It leaves to much room for error! I just like to keep things simple!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

A quote from Dean Hildebrand during pheasant gate and holds true here also. " If you don't know what it is, then you better not be shooting"


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Fact of the matter is that people ( not you and I ) are going to be ditching hen mallards, because they can't ID them or keep them!


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> " If you don't know what it is, then you better not be shooting"


Best advice I have heard for a long time........For everyone!!!
Have I made mistakes......You bet, Everyone has. But I try my damndest to make sure I know exactly what I am shooting!!!!


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

So here's and ex. why they are going to be ditched! You have 3 guys hunting and four dead hen mallards. What is going to happen to the accident? Do you do the ethically correct thing and keep it, risk the fine or ditch it and be legal? This is why I don't like Hunter choice!

I know, in a perfect world no one would shoot hens but that just not going to happen!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Yes it will be easier to break the law on hunter's choice.....

- But maybe that will weed out the guys who are shooters not hunters!

- Maybe more hunters should learn Duck Id.

This could help is skybusting. The average hunter will worry about the law and let the birds get a little closer or more day light. This could also help with crippling...the ducks get closer!

I know when I first started hunting I studied the Id book night and day. When I take someone new into the feild with me I give them a copy of an ID book the night before the hunt and tell them to study up.

All I know is I see some positives with this system. But I also like the old saying.....KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID.

So if you would just cut the limit that would make it as simple as it gets.


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## Niles Short (Mar 18, 2004)

"Results from the survey indicate that "about half" the duck hunters preferred making selective choices within a daily bag limit"
About half? That means its split preety even and there seems to be justification that it is "about half.' I voted the other-way even though that I can identify with the best. I feel that it is good to have a little cushion if you make a mistake. I was shooting drakes, catching/releasing fish, and selective harvesting of bucks long before it was a thing to do. Just because you have a drivers license does'nt mean you can drive and just because you try your "damnest" doesnt mean that you will not make mistakes. I challenge any of the "experts" out there to say that when they knock down some ducks in a snowstorm or fog and their dog (if they have one) brings back a species over their limit to call the game warden up and turn themselves in because they feel so strongly about these regulations and rely on their keen eyesight. Identify a juve pintail or young drake mallard in flight in the first weeks -- go for it.


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## bloodnguts (Nov 22, 2005)

I agree with Niles Short on this matter. It is very easy to distinguish a buck from a doe, or a bull from a cow elk. It's easy to distinguish a tom turkey from a hen. You don't have to worry about sex identification when hunting sharptails, ruffed grouse, quail or geese. It's easy to distinguish between a cock pheasant and a hen. But ducks is an altogether different story. With all the different species and different colors between the sexes, along with similar flight characteristics, varying lighting conditions, etc...you cannot convince me that honest mistakes can't be made by each and every duck hunter out there, whether they are someone who hunts a couple times a year, guides clients, or hosts a television show. Yeah, I pretty much know a drake or hen mallard when they come in, but who can claim they can guess with one hundred percent accuracy when a single hen diver of some sort comes in, exactly what species it is. I say it will be very easy to have a hen mallard in the bag, then take another duck that you think is a widgeon, gadwall or diver of some sort, only to find out it's a hen pintail, or hen canvasback or something. We are humans, and we will make mistakes at some point, if not this season, next season. I agree with Niles that I doubt anyone of us, having made such a mistake, is going to call the warden to announce their mistake, or take a chance of having it in their possession when they head back to the truck. Am I proud to say that. Nope. But I know I've made mistakes in the past and will make them again. But I've got kids who have needs, and I'm not going to take a chance on losing hundreds of dollars that I need to help raise my family, because I made a mistake with a duck of all things. That's just the way it is. Yes, I try my best to have the duck identified before I shoot, but nobody can tell me they can do it with complete accuracy, like you can when hunting big game, pheasants and turkies. I don't like the rule, and think there needs to be a little cushion, as was stated earlier. That cushion should be something like three or four ducks a day, period, or an extra hen mallard or something. I would imagine it's pretty rare to have an opportunity to kill a pintail, canvasback and a mallard all in the same hunt, but it can happen, and a cushion would be nice to keep you from a hefty fine.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> just because you try your "damnest" doesnt mean that you will not make mistakes


Go back and read my quote Niles, I said that I have made errors in ID and I would guess that everyone has at one time or another!!! :eyeroll:


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## f.o.s. lover (Sep 27, 2004)

Scenario - hunter gets pulled over 3 men in the vehicle 4 hens 11 drakes, he's still under the possession limit correct? These new regs really shouldn't be as hard on NoDak ers as it will be on non-residents who stay for a week and those people who truly aren't following the law. From my experience if a warden is going to bust you he watches you hunt for an hour or two in his super hoop dee telescope and can identify species better than you can. Hopefully if someone is being ethical and accidentally harvests one extra hen he will understand and have be sensible. People always leave some grey area where laws dont, hopefully the wardens will be considerate and only ride those hard who truly deserve it, not the guy who makes one mistake.

As others on this site have said, this hopefully will help the hunters by keeping the number of hens high, and the shooters will contribute their dollars in the form of fines to conservation which they should righfully owe those following the laws as they are taking more than the rest. More time needs to be spent teaching kids the hunt, not just emphasizingh the shooting.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Rick It really doesent matter what you like or dislike it is about reality. Ducks will be trashed because of this regulation. You have too much faith in the average hunters ability to ID ducks or his restraint. You are not the average hunter so it is not sensible to compare your abilities or composure in the field to others. The idea of idea of if you cant ID it dont shoot doesnt work. How many young hunters of visiting nonresidents can tell the difference between a hen pintail or a baldpate in flight. Very few! This isnt a shot at nonresidents the fact is most visiting hunters do not have the experience or time in the field that NoDak residents do. We have a huge varity of ducks so that gives us the opportunity to get much more experience at IDing birds. I dont stuff birds in the mud. If I make a mistake I take the bird home and eat it. I take the chance of being busted but I dont turn myself in. Most of the people posting on this site dont shoot hen mallards anyway so the change in rules wont change anything for them. Again the people who are for these regulations are not the average hunters. Make the regulations fit Average Joe hunter and his 13 year old son or daughter.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

OH, do you remember the days when we could not shoot redheads and cans at all? I was a young hunter with little experience in duck ID, but the restriction and the fear of the wrath from my dad if I messed up made me be dang sure of what I was shooting.

I am not disagreeing that some ducks are going to be ditched. But ditching of ducks has been going on for a long time with people who cannot ID ducks and simply shoot anything within range! Change in the limit from 2 hen mallards to one with the other restrictions won't change that.

Last fall in mid Oct some hunters from out of state, and this is not a NR bash, where cleaning birds at the hotel in Jamestown. They thought they where legal with their take for the day. They had 4 mallards each and 2 pintail hens. In hand they thought they where gads! I have an ID book most times in my truck so I got it out and showed them there error. I did not feel that they should be turned in, but I used it as an opportunity to educate them. We talked to them a couple days later and they thanked me and Doug for pointing out the mistake they made.

Sometimes we need to stop and think about this a little, and understand that experienced or rookie we have the burden of knowing what we are shooting at. Those who do not take this to heart would not no matter what the limits where.

I know you do not want to see the resource wasted, but facts are it happened with the old rules and it will happen with the new rules. I really think it is going to reduce mistake birds. With the restrictions we have now it should make people think before they shoot. Mallard drakes will be targeted more which in reality is what most want anyway. If the only duck you can ID is a mallard drake, then I bet those people will only shoot what they know to be legal!


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## Madison (Mar 1, 2002)

Old Hunter said:


> Most of the people posting on this site dont shoot hen mallards anyway so the change in rules wont change anything for them. Again the people who are for these regulations are not the average hunters. .


"Hunters" that break the law will continue to break the law any chance they get. Hunters that abide by the rules will continue to do so.

Most hunters out there will abide by the rules and not "stomp ducks" and make themselves better hunters by taking the time to decoy, not flock shoot, and pick out the drakes..

What I'm trying to say is with or without or even before the hunter choice concept, ducks were still beinig stomped regardless.


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

Old hunter wrote..."Rick It really doesn't matter what you like or dislike about reality!"

It may not matter to you, but it does matter to me!

Old hunter wrote..."Ducks will be trashed because of this requlation. You have to much faith in the average hunters ability to ID ducks or his restraint."

What is average anyway? It comes down to this. Do you want to learn to I.D. your ducks or not? It has nothing to do with experience. Out of state, resident... Buy a book, go on line and learn to identify your ducks. It's not Rocket Science. If you can learn to ride a bike, drive a car, change your oil, attach a picture to an email...You CAN LEARN TO IDENIFIY YOUR DUCKS. It just comes down to whether or not you want to take the time.

I am not arguing the fact that people may make more mistakes with this new regulation. But hiding behind the fact that it's too hard to identify ducks...just doensn't cut it. Learn or face the penality! It's their choice.
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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Ron , Madison and Rick I think you guys just proved my point. You guys live and breath the sport. You boys are so far from the average hunter that there is no comparison. Rick it is about experience, it takes years of experience to ID ducks in flight. Wing beat,head posture,curvature of wing and tail, can not be learned from books. Ron and Madison you guys most often hunt with experienced hunters. I hunt with a lot of rookies and enjoy teaching them the sport. The rookies are going to make a lot of mistakes Hunters choice is not very forgiving.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

OH I have been hunting with my daughter the last couple years and now my youngest 13 is starting this year and I started 9 other kids hunting ducks. My brother was my teacher for the most part and yes it is tough, but it also is part of the rules if we want to play.

There is a fair amount of anxiety on my part for the up coming weekend taking out two kids I do not know. But part of mentoring or teaching as you are is imparting the knowledge we have. Calling the shots, rotating those who are shooting and being willing to put your own gun down to help someone learn is not a bad thing.

I agree with your take on a portion of the people hunting, and no doubt it will come into play for most of us this year. But is this really that big of an issue? We had a lot of years with only one hen mallard and other species being closed completely.


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## Madison (Mar 1, 2002)

Old Hunter said:


> Ron and Madison you guys most often hunt with experienced hunters. .


Old Hunter, I totally understand what your saying.. I've shared the blind with you many of time and have learned ALOT everytime!!!


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