# Best all around caliber



## blackace

*Best all around caliber*​
.308 win1916.24%.2702723.08%.22300.00%30-30 win21.71%30.06 springfield3832.48%.300 Win1512.82%7mm remington mag1210.26%.28021.71%.300 Win Short Mag21.71%


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## blackace

I have a friend that is a die hard .308 win fan. He has hunts everythung form yotes to bears with it!!! He says that it is the best all around caliber. Just as he said that someone else startes aruging that the 30.06 is the best. What are your guys favorite all around caliber.


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## Whelen35

The 35 Whelen improved is the best!!! You can make up loads useing lite bullets ment for the 38 and 357's at aproximatly the same speed (700-800fps) or you can load up some crushers with 250's at 2600fps. My favorite big game load is the nosler 225gr BT at 2830fps. Shoots plenty flat and hits very hard when it gets there. Plus we are not likely to run out of 30-06 brass soon, so we can keep on making the 35 sing.


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## mallard

Man,You are going to get a lot of different opinions on this one.I chose the 7mm rem.You are good from deer to elk with that caliber.For bigger game I would go to 30 caliber or bigger.In all honesty I dont believe that there is one perfect caliber that can do it all,there are to many trade offs.


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## mr.trooper

45-70 GOV is the best! it may have a trejetory like a rainbow, but it will whomp anything you hit! especialy if you hand load! Anything up to bear have been droped with the venerable old 45-70.

ACtauly, i voted for the .308. its NATO standard....you never know when they may come in handy!


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## Militant_Tiger

Come on guys, 30-06 for sure. Been around for one hundred some years, and can kill anything in North America.


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## OneShotOneKill

*30-06 Springfield wins my vote!*


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## farmerj

Militant_Tiger said:


> Come on guys, 30-06 for sure. Been around for one hundred some years, and can kill anything in North America.


So...why don't we stick with the 7.62X54R(immed). Its ben around since 1891 and is still a military cartridge today....

Half the cartridges listed have balistics so similar you could almost say they are double listed.

the 6.5X55 swede would be a close runner-up to the .308 for me right next to the 7mm-08


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## Ryan_Todd

270 not too big and not too small.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Personally I love my 30-06..........but my friend just got a 280 and that is nice! Plus, not everyone owns one!


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## tumblebuck

.243 oke:


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## mr.trooper

.218 BEE; good for all game that could possibly be found in ones front yard.


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## blackace

farmerj, in not the 7.62X 54 mm the .308 win???? I choose to list there calibers because they seem to be the most popular rounds, (for the most part). 
I was just really wornding what the reaction to the thread would be.


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## farmerj

the 8mm, .303 brit, .30-06, 7.62/.308 and 7.62X54R are all similar in ballistics. It is just a matter of which country it came from.

I guess myself I only see 3 calibers on the list. .30-30, 300 Win mag, .30-06 class. Out side of that you don't have much of a choice.

I guess the meaning behind my comments are, this is a topic that gets beat to death on the gun boards I go do. Here, AmBak, M14-Forum, Parrallax.

In the states, the .30-06 tends to get the nod. But if you leave the continent, you will find it next to impossible to find the venerable .30-06.

When we were in Germany, about the closest you could find to it was the 8X57JR mauser.

Since I have gotten more into competition and shooting the last few years more than any others, I have been finding, there are much better cartridges than the most popular US cartridges that the big three manufacturers like to stuff down our throat.

It would be nice if more COMSUMERS would let the dealers know, we don't want it decided for US what we want, we want what we want, not your desire.

For me, that is now looking to be the 6.5X55 swede or the .308.


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## SniperPride

well almost all of those calibers will work well all around. Although I do not like 30-06...its out dated. :wink:


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## Militant_Tiger

So is the bolt action, but its still the best thing around :wink:


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## sdeprie

My favorite was not listed, so I chose the 30-06. I would have chosen the 280 Rem. I notice that so far, the 270 has the most votes. Ballistically there is no practical difference between the 270 and 280. I give the nod to the 280 because of the wider choice of bullets.


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## the_rookie

all i gotta say is you only need 3 guns and your set the three guns are a .45 pistol, 30-06 springfield, and a 22lr or magnum, the reason i say this is the 45 is the defense weapon the 22 is for varmints and the 30-06 you can take anything


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## Plainsman

Hey, I think you are all right. Get one of each what the heck. It would be a boring world for me if they did make a perfect rifle. A friend of mine posted a picture of me sitting with four rifles deer hunting. Normally I have a moderate range and a long range deer rifle, as well as a predator rifle when I sit and wait for deer. Some clown on another site had a fit about it. Comments were, deer are not terrorists and should not be treated as such. What a moron. As if how many rifles one has sitting beside him effects his hunting ethics. Like the old Stepenwolf song of the late 60's = If he fell on a pin he would go blind in both eyes. In other words his eyes are close together (narrow minded).


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## blackace

Plainsman, I like the way you think.


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## MOSSBACK

TAKE OUT THE .223 (too small)and the 30-30 ( too slow) and all the calibers on the list are excellent all around hunting rifles.

Other than that it is a tough list to choose the best all around caliber. People that are the big 30-06 fans have a valid point it's a proven all around rifle for most any game.

I had to choose the 7mm Mag. You can use it from prairie dogs to bear. Its a very flat shooting rifle that packs a punch at 400 yards.

If you were to say the best big game caliber I would choose the .300 win mag. off the list.

just one mans $.02


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## Ron Gilmore

What makes a favorite a favorite? I started with an .06 and have stayed with it. I do not reload so for me it boils down to availability of good quality ammo at an affordable price.

The .270,.280 Rem,.06 etc are all good dependable rounds all of which have a long history and hunting heritage. I would take most of the list in the field and never think twice about it.

If I was reloading for deer I more than like would choose the .280 Rem and the 300 Win for elk. Nothing more is needed with a good placed shot.


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## OneShotOneKill

The best all around caliber is .308, but I picked the *best all around cartridge is the 30-06 Springfield! * Highly versatile cartridge using various available powders to numerous to list and bullet weights from 90 to 250 grains.

Hodgdon Annual Manual #2 has an excellent article about *loading the 30-06 Springfield for big game.*

http://www.hodgdon.com/index.php


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## Bobm

30-30 is a nice shooting caliber you just have to understand its limitations
I like shooting my contender in it.


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## wompus_cat

I like the way you think, sdeprie-- the 280 rem should be on that list.
If you put your nose into data books as much as I do, you might notice that the 280 rem has an edge over the 270 in all categories (its true!) and its one of my very Fav calibers. 
Another deserving of that list is the 338-06, it is very efficient, and 225 grain bullets will take out anything in North America, and is overkill for most.
But the BEST all around caliber has to be the 308. As I once read, it is the most versitale short action cartridge ever invented. from 125 gr ballistic tips to 200 armor piercing, if there is a job to be done, the 308 will do it.


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## OneShotOneKill

*wompus_cat,*

There isn't much difference between the 270 Winchester and the 280 Remington, but .007" and that does make some difference. *The 280 Remington can put the same bullet weight on target faster than the 270 Winchester, but the 30-06 Springfield outperforms both of the same bullet weight.* Basically any cartridge that comes from the 30-06 Springfield parent case is a proven performer. This is where the 308 Winchester came from! Reading ballistic data from manuals are fine but it's a bit different when you research your own loads and firearms on the range as I do. I don't use manual findings as final judgment on a cartridge. *I still choose the 30-06 Springfield as my best all around cartridge! *


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## swift

The 7mm has the array of bullets from 110gr for coyotes to 175gr for moose and many in between. The 270 has very poor choices for bullets. Also I can't believe you guys let Militant Tiger off so easily. The 30-06 has it's name from being a 30 caliber cartridge made in 1906. Not quite a hundred and some years old.


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## OneShotOneKill

*swift,

I strongly disagree!* .277 caliber hunting bullets are available from 90 to 160 grains and many in-between! .284 caliber bullets are available from 100 to 175 grain and many in-between! I still own several boxes of the Barnes Originals in 180 grain .277 caliber bullets that I use in my 270 Winchester, 195 grain .284 caliber bullets for my 280 Remington Ackley Improved and 250 grain .308 caliber bullets for my 30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved.

* The .30-06 Springfield is actually a modified version of the Cartridge, Caliber .30, Model of 1903. The original cartridge had a 220-grain, round-nosed FMJ bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2,300 FPS. The 1903 version was chambered by Winchester in the 1895 lever action rifle. As a result of ballistic experiments in Europe, the U. S. Army modified the .30-03 cartridge by shortening the neck 0.070" and loading a short pointed bullet weighing 150 grains to a muzzle velocity of 2,700 FPS. This cartridge then became known as the Caliber .30, Model of 1906 or simply the .30-06 Springfield.*


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## wompus_cat

Oneshotonekill,

The good ol' '06 may shoot the same weight bullets faster than the .280, but your forgetting about something----Ballistic coefficient.

What bullets/loads r u shooting? I'm always intersted in some new data, maybe u have some info I don't. As you said, I am restrcted to book data, but I am well versed

To get the BC out of 30 caliber that the 7 bore boasts, you have to compare 200 gr (30 cal) to 160 gr (7mm), and I dont think ure shooting them at the same speed.

I will someday be able to afford a chrony and lazer range finder, and when I do lookout! But until then maybe you could fill me in.
Not that Im knocking the '06, but I think I get better results from my 280 and 308, using book loads.
PS my 280 groups .325 @ 100 yds, off of a sandbag and I think if you put it in a vice it would shoot one hole. 
Mind you I measure groups on the outside, not the space inbetween like some jokers Ive heard.


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## Ace25

There are allot of variables here. The 270 is a good choice for small and mid sized game. It has a nice flat arc that is more forgiving if you aren't good at judging the distance of your shot. In my opinion the 270 is a little on the light side for big game. (bear, moose, elk&#8230 The 30-06 is certainly a popular caliber and has been around for years, however the .308 (7.62x51mm NATO) is gaining popularity. It is much more accurate than the 30-06. (I know I will probably take some heat for saying that, but) check this site out: http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp

All are good calibers, but my vote would have to be the .308 :wink:

Ace25


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## Plainsman

I keep seeing that people measure groups in varying ways. You can not compare one caliber to another if you measure between holes, or from the outside of your group. At any competition they measure all groups from center to center. If you think about this what you are measuring is from center bore to center bore. If you measure from the outside the small calibers will always have smaller groups. Sometimes smaller than the bore diameter of your 308. If you measure the gap between bullets what do you do when there is no gap. Also, a .3 inch group from a 308 will have no gaps. A .3 inch group from a 22 caliber will have a .0726 inch gap. Measuring a 308 caliber .5 inch group from the outside would be .808, the same group measured from the inside would be .192. Now look at that same .5 inch group from a .224 caliber. Measured from the outside it would be .724, and from the inside .276. Notice the small caliber wins when measuring from the outside, and the large caliber wins when measuring from the inside. Proper group measurement must be center to center if you want to compare groups from varying calibers.


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## Roebuck

OneShotOneKill said:


> *swift,
> 
> I strongly disagree!* .277 caliber hunting bullets are available from 90 to 160 grains and many in-between! .284 caliber bullets are available from 100 to 175 grain and many in-between! I still own several boxes of the Barnes Originals in 180 grain .277 caliber bullets that I use in my 270 Winchester, 195 grain .284 caliber bullets for my 280 Remington Ackley Improved and 250 grain .308 caliber bullets for my 30-06 Springfield Ackley Improved.
> 
> * The .30-06 Springfield is actually a modified version of the Cartridge, Caliber .30, Model of 1903. The original cartridge had a 220-grain, round-nosed FMJ bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2,300 FPS. The 1903 version was chambered by Winchester in the 1895 lever action rifle. As a result of ballistic experiments in Europe, the U. S. Army modified the .30-03 cartridge by shortening the neck 0.070" and loading a short pointed bullet weighing 150 grains to a muzzle velocity of 2,700 FPS. This cartridge then became known as the Caliber .30, Model of 1906 or simply the .30-06 Springfield.*


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## coyote22250

My vote is for that 30-06 knok down power with the recoil of a magnum, and can be found in every gas station, so if you run out on your hunting trip you can buy some quick. I can't belive the 243 was left out, shooots coyotes, fox, deer, elk you name it, it has been killed with a 243. good gun for a kid starting out.


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## xdeano

I second that! The 243 is a very versital round. 
Deano


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## OneShotOneKill

*Roebuck,

When available I shot Barnes Originals in my 270 Winchester and 7mm Mauser Ackley Improved, but I haven't been able to locate the .277 caliber 180 grain & .284 190 grain bullets anymore, so I don't include them on my list!* I don't use any of the Barnes X-bullets because they don't expand consistently, and frankly I don't trust them. No one can go wrong with Nosler Partitions if you're looking for a reliable premium big game bullet.

*I have neck shot a 350lb black bear using a 243 Winchester with 100 grain Nosler Partitions at 50 yards. No follow up shot was required, because I used a capable cartridge with the best bullet and superior shot placement.*


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## sdeprie

OSOK, I need a clarification. Did Iunderstand you to say the Barnes copper solids don't expand consistently? Did you mean the Barnes X-bullets? The solids are not meant to expand. The X-bullets are also all copper, but not considered solids, they are hollowpoints.

I hope there is not an argument about differences too small to measure. I prefer the 280 over the 270 because of bullet variety. I still contend that if the 280 had come out first, there would never have been a 270. There is not enough difference in ballistics to make any real difference. The real difference is in bullet selection. If you find the perfect bullet in a 270, there is no reason to get rid of it in favor of a 280. As far as the perfect caliber based on the 30-06 case, I have it from a reliable source that it would be the 338. There is some magic formula counting powder space, shoulder depth, etc, that makes the 338 the most efficient caliber for this case. That is the best combination of ballistics, energy, all that stuff.


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## OneShotOneKill

*Sdeprie,

Barnes X-bullets have a long history of failing to expand reliably. If you want a real chance of losing an animal, use Barnes X-bullets. I have used Nosler Partition now for over 26 years and they have never failed to expand and humanly kill my animals from antelope to the largest bears.

I can measure .007" difference!

Sdeprie, can a person use new or once fired 25-06 Remington, 270 Winchester or 30-06 Springfield cases for use in a 280 Remington chamber, if so how would you go about making them? You're not correct the 270 Winchester would still exist.

The 338-06 is an excellent cartridge, but I can't meet the 35 Whelen or 35 Whelen Ackley Improved, or the 375-06 JDJ. I don't rely on outside sources for my findings. I have designed; hand loaded and shot hundreds of standard and wildcat cartridges through the years and to date I am the only expert I turn to for proper and accurate guidance.*


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## sdeprie

You also don't appear to rely on facts for answers, but your own personal opinions. You may be right about the 270 still existing. I disagree. I was stating an opinion and represented it as such. All of the calibers you listed have their own inherent advantages and disadvantages. Again, the poll was about an opinion and I have shared mine.


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## ej4prmc

300 WBY with 2nd place going to the 300 win.


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## Gohon

Wow, " favorite all around caliber". That's almost a trick question. My favorite all around caliber is the 30-30, but that is because the largest game hunted in my area is the Whitetail deer and shots beyond 100 yards very seldom present themselves due to thick under brush. Now if you ask me what I think the most versatile caliber is I would say the 30-06 with the 308 being so close it wouldn't matter which one you chose. The 06 will take anything North America has to offer and do it with authority. Of course this is just my opinion.


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## mr.trooper

ej4prmc said:


> 300 WBY with 2nd place going to the 300 win.


The best ALL AROUND cartridge. id love to see you shoot a coyote with Either of those cartridges and try to sell the hide. Go ahea and pop a prairie dog or a 'Chuck with one. The .300 weatherby and 300 Win magnum are Big game riles, not all-round rifles. The only way you could use them is to load them way down.



xdeano said:


> I second that! The 243 is a very versital round.
> Deano


 What Basic rifle caliber isn't! Any non-magnum from .243 to 308 can be used to hunt almost anything with the range of bullets avalible today.


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## Peakebrook

What is the advantage of getting a long action gun, when you can get similar ballistics out of a short action?

Although you might be able to find some cartridge ammo more readily available at your local gas station, that is not how I choose my gun of choice.

The 308 cartridge is becoming more popular for many reasons. However, some people just don't like change.


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## TGM

300 win gets my vote you can reload to wood chucks all away up to grizzly bears. In matter fact has more energy than 338 mag at 400 yds


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## MagnumManiac

THE best all around cartridge by MILES has to be the 270 Weatherby Magnum.Exceptionally flat trjectory,high retained velocity at long range and high retained energy at same. :sniper:


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## darkgael

I voted for the 30-06. Some 64%+ did not. All of the other cartridges are proven performers across a wide range of use. Interesting to me that no cartridge has anything near a clear majority.
One could make a good argument, especially if the person was a handloader, for the .375 H&H. With it, a shooter can harvest, where it's still legal, the largest game on the planet and then, loading it down to .375 Win. level, take it out for Whitetails. While a large for a varmint gun, and surely a heavier kicker, with 200 gr. bullets at 3200 fps it will shoot about as flat as one could desire.
Want to plink? Cast bullets and a light load of Unique or Red Dot and you can shoot all day. Maybe a squirrel or two? (yeah, I know, a .375 for squirrel ....kinda goes against traditional perceptions, doesn't it.? Try a .375 round ball on a light load of Unique. A nice little popper.) 
Pete


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## Sawyerbob

tumblebuck said:


> .243 oke:


Ditto


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## iwantabuggy

darkgael said:


> While a large for a varmint gun, and surely a heavier kicker, with 200 gr. bullets at 3200 fps it will shoot about as flat as one could desire.


Soooooo not true. Maybe flat enough to do the job, but not nearly as flat as I could DESIRE. I suppose that depends at least a little on how far you are going to shoot. The BC on the poor old 200 gr bullets is sooo low that it is not very flat at all IMO.


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## sdeprie

There has been a lot of good discussion here. It is obviously a very personal choice. What I need is dictated by what I want to do and how much recoil I choose to tolerate. I CHOOSE to tolerate a lot less than I can take. The largest and most dangerous game I have any intention of hunting would be moose. A 280 Rem will do the job at a recoil I choose to tolerate and can be loaded and used for much smaller game.


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## darkgael

iwantabuggy said:


> darkgael said:
> 
> 
> 
> While a large for a varmint gun, and surely a heavier kicker, with 200 gr. bullets at 3200 fps it will shoot about as flat as one could desire.
> 
> 
> 
> Soooooo not true. Maybe flat enough to do the job, but not nearly as flat as I could DESIRE. I suppose that depends at least a little on how far you are going to shoot. The BC on the poor old 200 gr bullets is sooo low that it is not very flat at all IMO.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you've got a point. Bad choice of words on my part. I just spent a few minutes with the ballistics calculator and the old .375 at a 400 yd zero is 14" high at 200 yds for the 200gr. bullet @.195BC (12" high at 200 for a .235 gr. bullet). There are flatter shooting cartridges. 
A 175 gr. bullet in 7mm (BC = .519) at 2900fps (Weatherby mag.) is 10" high at 200 at that same zero. Four inches higher for the 200 gr./.375 bullet is a lot. 
I'll stick with it as a good all round cartridge for handloaders in any case.
Pete


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## 1shotWonder

> THE best all around cartridge by MILES has to be the 270 Weatherby Magnum.


 :beer:


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## MagnumManiac

sdeprie said:


> There has been a lot of good discussion here. It is obviously a very personal choice. What I need is dictated by what I want to do and how much recoil I choose to tolerate. I CHOOSE to tolerate a lot less than I can take. The largest and most dangerous game I have any intention of hunting would be moose. A 280 Rem will do the job at a recoil I choose to tolerate and can be loaded and used for much smaller game.


How many shells does that 'little' 280 rifle hold.
I hope it has a 5 round mag!
*MagnumManiac*
:sniper:


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## szm69

The poll asked what the best caliber is, but then lists specific cartriges what does the poster want??

I would say 30 caliber is best all around. Lots of bullet choices that allow you to load for slow (30-30) or fast rounds (.300 RUM) and everything in between.

?


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## sdeprie

The 280 I have now is a single shot, but the one I hope to build does have a 4 round mag, plus one in the tube. As I wrote in my post, that should handle anything I intend to face. If I place myself in a different situation, I would obviously make changes. I load a 160 gr bullet at around 2800 fps. That's certainly not a magnum, but enough for whatever I want to hunt.

People often make the mistake of calling a cartridge a caliber. (What caliber is that? A 30-30?) If one actually means caliber, that really leave the question open to a lot of qualifiers. What single caliber is useful for everything from varmints to dangerous game. My favorite caliber is 7mm, but that's too light (even in the most powerful magnum) for truly dangerous game. With that in mind I would have to go with 30 caliber, although even that is light for dangerous game. If there were more bullets available, I could easily go with the 35 caliber.


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## Ginger Quill

What about the .280 Remington? Wow, what a cartridge. It is one of the best I have seen for deer hunting. Put a 140 grain bullet in it and I'll take on just about any deer, elk or moose. Even goats and sheep. I'd go a little bigger for brown bears though. :sniper:


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## dd6

Here we go again! 
I take it by all around, all North American game is the goal, one gun! 
Best all around caliber would have to be 30.
Best all around cartidge would go to 30-06! The 300 mags would be there, but not enough return on investment, ammo cost, recoil, actual diff. on game, and so on. 20ft.lb. recoil seems to be enough.

PLEASE! 243, 100 gr. bullet! 30-30, they are not in this catagory!
Sure some guys can take an elk with the perfect shot, angle, they're not elk medicine. 
Pennsylvania minimum elk caliber is 27, 130gr. you know what that is.
The 7mm's would be close, but the 175 gr. bullet is about the limit for them, not really heavy enough for the bigger game.
The 308 is close, but again the 06 gets it, esp. w/ the heavier bullets.
Most gun writers agree.
100 year record doesn't lie.


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## snowslayer

What about the good old 45 you can shoot anything in north america with it


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## dd6

Maybe to about 150 yards is all!


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## mallard mauler

SniperPride said:


> well almost all of those calibers will work well all around. Although I do not like 30-06...its out dated. :wink:


yes sir you hit the nail on the head there


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## Savage260

Outdated??? Does that mean it is too old a cal to kill critters?? That is one of the most absurd things I have ever read on here.


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## headshot

> Outdated??? Does that mean it is too old a cal to kill critters?? That is one of the most absurd things I have ever read on here.


I agree. The 30 06 will flatten any critter on the N american continent with authority. I find the 30 06 boring though. Components are readily available as well as tons of data. I like reloading slightly obscure calibers. It's a little more challenging. All the calibers listed are way too close for one or another to have any real game killing advantage, as for anyone that laughs at the 243 I dare you to stand at the 400 meter line at our range. :lol: J/K As for best caliber i would have to go with the 50BMG from 5 feet to a mile it will knock your socks off.


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## cjb41

.243 for deer and smaller, 7MM Rem. mag. for deer and larger.


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## 97th Signalman

I would say it's a toss up betweem .30-06 and .308. I think that the ready availibility of cheap military surplus practice ammo from CMP would argue for the .30-06. They are both about egually effective on North American game with the .30-06 having a slight advantage with really heavy bullets (180-220 grains). Next for me would be the .270.

And then there is history. The .30 -06 has been an American success story for over 100 years.


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