# ID help



## duckslayer18 (Dec 29, 2007)

I think I've figured out the 2 on the far right as bibbed mallards, but the 3rd from the right has a big green head and a hen body. Is it a hybrid or cross or just a messed up mallard??

Thanks


----------



## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

I believe that is an old hen that has started to take on characteristics of a drake.


----------



## duckslayer18 (Dec 29, 2007)

Just the man I was hoping to respond! I'm thinking of getting the 3 on the right mounted. But there is some blood on the white of both birds, is that gonna be a problem?

Thanks


----------



## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

I've read that they are domestic ducks,you shootin on a farm pond?


----------



## duckslayer18 (Dec 29, 2007)

No lol ive gotten that a lot tho. It came in with a flock of about 100 mallards. Right in the middle of all em. And it was a corn field.


----------



## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

pretty cool bird non the less...


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I would guess it's a late hatch or for some reason a late molt drake. Give it another three to four weeks and it would look like any other drake.


----------



## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> I would guess it's a late hatch or for some reason a late molt drake. Give it another three to four weeks and it would look like any other drake.


The last thing that changes on a drake mallard is the green on the head...If you look at the picture that head is solid green.

I would have to see a better picture to be sure but my money is on an old hen that has taken on characteristics on a drake.

From Wikipedia:Main article: Sequential hermaphroditism

Sequential hermaphrodites (dichogamy) occur in species in which the individual is born as one sex, but can later change into the opposite sex.[11] This contrasts simultaneous hermaphrodites, in which an individual may possess fully functional male and female gonads.

Oh BLOOD is no problem for taxidermy. They are degreased & washed. Anybody who knows what they are doing will be able to get that out.


----------



## snogeezmen (May 28, 2012)

thats a pretty sweet day! nice looking ducks.

weve come across a couple of those green heads with hens bodies as well generally later in the year.

i never knew what to think of those rick, thats interesting to know. which brings me to my next questions how many transgender mallards are you allowed in a daily limit? :beer:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Rick, I was aware of sex changing in some invertebrates and fish (and some other animals in Kalifornia)but had not heard of it in birds. I guess I will have to check into that. Are feathers a secondary sex character that manifest like women with mustaches?


----------



## aplon150 (Sep 24, 2013)

I've seen quite a few of these late season and every time they had incomplete tail feathers (notched at the tip with bare quill exposed). I always assumed that meant a late hatch bird. While usually plumage grows in a predictable pattern is that always the case? Most redheads show their first signs of breeding plumage in the head, yet I shot one a few years back that had a black chest, mostly gray back and a completely brown head.


----------



## teamflightstoppersND (Feb 20, 2009)

Rick Acker said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > I would guess it's a late hatch or for some reason a late molt drake. Give it another three to four weeks and it would look like any other drake.
> ...


So is this pretty rare or common ? I think we shot a couple this November that had those characteristics.


----------



## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

duckslayer18 said:


> I think I've figured out the 2 on the far right as bibbed mallards, but the 3rd from the right has a big green head and a hen body. Is it a hybrid or cross or just a messed up mallard??
> 
> Thanks


The bird you have in the middle of the pic with the Hen like chest, we shot a few of them this fall as well.


----------



## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

It's certainly not common...I've put the hurt on a lot of Mallards over the years and I've never shot one or hunted with anybody who has. I do see a picture or two every season.


----------



## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

Anybody who says they've seen quite a few of these late season is more than likely mistaken. You're more than likely are looking at an eclipse drake or late hatch bird. I've shot Mallards in January in Alaska that aren't feathered out yet.

The thing that is a dead giveaway on this bird is the solid green head. I would like to see more of this bird if you could take some pictures from the other side. One things for sure, eclipse drakes do not have solid green heads and then drab plumage elsewhere.

The following is a quote from a biology website I found. "While hermaphroditism is not uncommon in worms and insects, it is rarely seen in vertebrates. In birds and mammals, hermaphroditism is usually a pathological condition causing infertility."

So I'm guessing you have an old hen that was no longer making eggs. She wasn't a "Fertile Myrtille".


----------



## duckslayer18 (Dec 29, 2007)

Rick Acker said:


> Anybody who says they've seen quite a few of these late season is more than likely mistaken. You're more than likely are looking at an eclipse drake or late hatch bird. I've shot Mallards in January in Alaska that aren't feathered out yet.
> 
> The thing that is a dead giveaway on this bird is the solid green head. I would like to see more of this bird if you could take some pictures from the other side. One things for sure, eclipse drakes do not have solid green heads and then drab plumage elsewhere.
> 
> ...


I will try and get you some pictures this week. I have it wrapped up in the freezer at the moment.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Sequential hermaphroditism (called dichogamy in botany) is a type of hermaphroditism that occurs in many fish, gastropoda and plants.


This type of thing is not possible in birds, mammals etc. ----------- unless native to Kalifornia. :wink:


----------



## aplon150 (Sep 24, 2013)

> Anybody who says they've seen quite a few of these late season is more than likely mistaken. You're more than likely are looking at an eclipse drake or late hatch bird. I've shot Mallards in January in Alaska that aren't feathered out yet.


I am certainly not mistaken. Our last bird of the last day of the season last year was identical to this. Bright green head, white ring, hen brown chest and belly, gray back. We shot three that week.

More than likely you are not the only one who has shot a few ducks before, I've never personally shot a king eider but that doesn't mean they aren't real :eyeroll:


----------



## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

Through out the week while we were in ND in November, we pry shot 3 mallards that looked just like that one. We couldn't figure out why the greenhead and the hen belly..


----------



## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

aplon150 said:


> > Anybody who says they've seen quite a few of these late season is more than likely mistaken. You're more than likely are looking at an eclipse drake or late hatch bird. I've shot Mallards in January in Alaska that aren't feathered out yet.
> 
> 
> I am certainly not mistaken. Our last bird of the last day of the season last year was identical to this. Bright green head, white ring, hen brown chest and belly, gray back. We shot three that week.
> ...


Hey anything is possible, so if you say you've seen quite a few so be it...but I'm just going by the facts. It's certainly not common. It's very uncommon in birds for this to happen. Talk to any biologist and he would tell you that. Sorry if I struck a nerve, but using a phrase "shooting quite a few" suggests they are "common"....Maybe that's not what you meant.

I don't recall beating my chest and saying I'm the only one that knows anything about ducks. Your King Eider Pot Shot suggests that...but I didn't.


----------



## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Plainsman said:


> > Sequential hermaphroditism (called dichogamy in botany) is a type of hermaphroditism that occurs in many fish, gastropoda and plants.
> 
> 
> This type of thing is not possible in birds, mammals etc. ----------- unless native to Kalifornia. :wink:


That's not entirely true......... New York has a fair share also................ :wink:


----------



## aplon150 (Sep 24, 2013)

Hermaphroditic ducks are extremely rare. I never denied that. You took my answer that I have seen "quite a few" ducks of this coloration as I shoot hermaphroditic ducks day in and day out. As I stated in an earlier post most of the birds of this coloration that I have handled have had incomplete tail feathers, suggesting an alternate explanation for the brown coloring (late hatch bird whose plumage grew in a non traditional way). You immediately throwing my comment out because you assume there is no other explanation besides yours was what upset me.

Who knows, maybe I don't shoot many bands because all my luck lies with transgender ducks, but I strongly believe this coloration is not uncommon and becomes more apparent in late season birds. Does a late hatch bird get environmental cues (short days, cold weather) that tell it to put feathers in places that are important to keeping body temperatures up? The head has a small mass to surface area ratio so lots of heat is lost there, maybe some birds sense this and put some padding on the noggin first.


----------



## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

aplon150 said:


> Hermaphroditic ducks are extremely rare. I never denied that. You took my answer that I have seen "quite a few" ducks of this coloration as I shoot hermaphroditic ducks day in and day out. As I stated in an earlier post most of the birds of this coloration that I have handled have had incomplete tail feathers, suggesting an alternate explanation for the brown coloring (late hatch bird whose plumage grew in a non traditional way). You immediately throwing my comment out because you assume there is no other explanation besides yours was what upset me.
> 
> Who knows, maybe I don't shoot many bands because all my luck lies with transgender ducks, but I strongly believe this coloration is not uncommon and becomes more apparent in late season birds. Does a late hatch bird get environmental cues (short days, cold weather) that tell it to put feathers in places that are important to keeping body temperatures up? The head has a small mass to surface area ratio so lots of heat is lost there, maybe some birds sense this and put some padding on the noggin first.


Well, "quite a few" certainly does suggest something more than "rare", so my bad if you didn't mean it that way.

Listen, I never claimed to be an expert on the subject or better duck killer than the next guy...(I don't shoot bands either) I just gave my opinion on what I thought the bird was. I do stand by the comment that...

"*Anybody who says they've seen quite a few of these late season is more than likely mistaken. You're more than likely are looking at an eclipse drake or late hatch bird."

*Why? Because they are very rare. You obviously know your ducks, but you would be amazed at all the people that bring me ducks and have no idea what a Gadwall is let alone a "cross dressing duck". That's no slam, just an observation. :beer:


----------



## aplon150 (Sep 24, 2013)

> you would be amazed at all the people that bring me ducks and have no idea what a Gadwall is let alone a "cross dressing duck"


Fair enough, I see it all the time too, makes me chuckle and shake my head at the same time.










Obviously a crappy picture but it's the first one I found. Hen on the right, drakes on the left, goofy duck in between. I remember looking this one over pretty carefully as he rode next to me on the way home. He did have notched tailfeathers and sharp toenails. A young bird. Young and still getting feathers or young and sexually confused? Who knows.


----------



## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

That's a good looking pile of birds none the less! Do you shoot a lot of Goldeneyes? One of my fav's!


----------



## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

aplon150 said:


> > you would be amazed at all the people that bring me ducks and have no idea what a Gadwall is let alone a "cross dressing duck"
> 
> 
> Fair enough, I see it all the time too, makes me chuckle and shake my head at the same time.
> ...


The Hen on the right sure does have an interesting head to it as well. No doubt by the bill, it is a Susie.


----------



## aplon150 (Sep 24, 2013)

It sure does have a nice bill, thats why i shot it :wink:

We don't shoot as many as I'd like to, I love whistlers. We run into them periodically but I've never been on a really good goldeneye hunt.


----------

