# Mountain Lion at the Back Door



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I got this email with these pictures. It's said they're from Martin, SD but you know how emails and facts go. Either way, I can't imagine what it'd be like to have this kitty at your back door!!!


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

I got that email yesterday too. Those big glowing eyes peering though the door kind of makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I can't imagine what would happen if my lab saw that outside on my deck!


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## Duck Commander (Oct 20, 2004)

I heard it was from Wyoming. According to an email I got Dorothy Feske, the furbearer biologist has an article that states it was from there. But once again who knows.


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## slough (Oct 12, 2003)

Someone on FBO said it was a few years old and there are various reports of where it came from. A little freaky nonetheless.


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

if i saw eyes like that staring at me in the dark i'd fill my pants


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## averyghg (Oct 16, 2006)

i'd probably let my kids pet him.......just kidding. Id fill my pants like Triple B, atleast a few times!!!!


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## proagr465 (Nov 18, 2006)

I would fire 3 quick loads of 3.5" Hevi Shot BB's right through that glass door. That man killer would have no chance at me and mine.

:strapped:


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

Why shoot it?? That "man killer" is just out there trying to make a living like everyone else.


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## Scott Schuchard (Nov 23, 2002)

proagr465 said:


> I would fire 3 quick loads of 3.5" Hevi Shot BB's right through that glass door. That man killer would have no chance at me and mine.
> 
> :strapped:


yeah maybe if it was after one of my dogs or kids or somthing but he just out for a walk, that would be like shootin a deer walkin outside your window.


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## Scott Schuchard (Nov 23, 2002)

and another thing what if you missed then it would be after one of your own, and trust me you would not be able to reload fast enought to stop it before it got you or someone/thing else thats like pissin off a twiser in a bag of fur with tooth and fang, you must be the type to shoot whatever and whenever :eyeroll:


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

I say "CUT 'EM!" haha Wow, that'd be quite an ordeal.


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## younghunter (Dec 17, 2006)

yea i think i would done just what that person did take pictures and with the additive of filling my pants and then filling again. I'd shoot if only it attacked and id make dang sure it waas large enough to not have to worry bout a second shot but jsut in case like 44 mags on ur side if it does puonce on u after u unload a basooka on it lol


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## proagr465 (Nov 18, 2006)

Must be those eyes or something that have you guys all brain washed. That cat is a cold blooded killer! I resent that comment that Scott made, I am not trigger happy by any means. However the reason that lion came to that house is because he smelled something, and that something smelled good to him. Maybe a child, a pet, or even table scraps thrown outside. If you will notice there seems to be snow in the pictures (I could be mistaken on that), and every animal from birds to coyotes gets hungry during the cold winter months.

I do not have a problem with that lion. I will not go out in the wild to hunt him or try to stalk and shoot him. However if he makes the mistake of trying to find food outside of my home, then he will live no more.

And I would not miss!


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

cut'em said:


> Why shoot it?? That "man killer" is just out there trying to make a living like everyone else.


I agree... :beer:


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## averyghg (Oct 16, 2006)

why shoot it??? are u kidding me??? If i had kids or wife that thing would be hanging on my wall!!! If i didn't i would probably let him go


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## younghunter (Dec 17, 2006)

by the response of "proagr456" i took a greater in depth look at the second picture and that cat is locked on to whoever is taking picture and you can tell if there wasnt a door in between that cat would be killing I would shoot it buy the look of htat cats eyes. U never no it gcould stalk and track you down while in the woods jsut by the remeberinze of that nite and and the want to kill and eat id shoot it but at a farther range then 3ft more as 50 or 40 soemtingf to be able to responde toa miss or a clean kill .


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

After reading the opinions on shoot it or don't shoot it, I began to think that it wouldn't even be legal to shoot the cat. Season is over in ND even tho they say this was in SD im sure theres no open season on them there either. So shooting the cat for looking through your window would be a pretty dumb idea. The only reason i could think of to shoot the cat is if you were outside and it attacked you or someone else and for some odd reason you actually had something on you that would even kill it and not just make it mad. Heck if you are gonna shoot through your glass just cuz its looking at you, you better keep your gun ready for them robins and squirrels that might glance through the glass while sitting on the deck.


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## Alex (Feb 14, 2006)

I got the same e-mail...


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## Ridge Nelson (Jan 19, 2006)

This could be a pet. I've seen on TV that some people collect exotic and big cats.


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## ndfarmboy (Jan 7, 2006)

ac700wildcat said:


> After reading the opinions on shoot it or don't shoot it, I began to think that it wouldn't even be legal to shoot the cat. Season is over in ND even tho they say this was in SD im sure theres no open season on them there either. So shooting the cat for looking through your window would be a pretty dumb idea. The only reason i could think of to shoot the cat is if you were outside and it attacked you or someone else and for some odd reason you actually had something on you that would even kill it and not just make it mad. Heck if you are gonna shoot through your glass just cuz its looking at you, you better keep your gun ready for them robins and squirrels that might glance through the glass while sitting on the deck.


 :eyeroll:


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## Cyrus (Nov 24, 2003)

I got this with e-mail also. I always figured it was photoshoped into the picture. Seems kinda strange that a cat would stand and have it's picture taken so many times with a camera flash going off in it's face. It could also be a pet as suggested.

If this is real and the cat didn't back down it needs to be put down. It would just be a matter of time and someone or some pet would get hurt or worse having a cat like that around.

This situation is a little different than running across a cat in the wild as this cat seems to be seeking out something in the yard or house.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

You make that face at me now but if that was you taking the picture and you actually shot it for looking thru the window and not harming anything you would be making a lot different face when you were going to jail for a while for shooting it when someone found out. If there was any concern about the animal the Game and Fish should be called and they can take care of the problem. That's what they are there for right? I know i wouldn't risk jailtime for something like that.

Just my 2 cents


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## proagr465 (Nov 18, 2006)

There is only one reason and one reason only that cat is at the back of that door (assuming he is wild) and why he or she is not afraid of that flash. It is because it is HUNTING something to kill and eat.

There is an old saying that a man from Niobe told me "in a situation like that you have to follow the three S's.........Shoot!, Shovel! and Shut Up!"

He was talking about a mountain lion then, that he saw on his farm.

Just my :2cents:


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

ac700wildcat said:


> Heck if you are gonna shoot through your glass just cuz its looking at you, you better keep your gun ready for them robins and squirrels that might glance through the glass while sitting on the deck.


So, in your opinion, robins and squirrels are the same threat to your family as a mountain lion? 
I also thought of the three s's as a good solution, although I wouldn't shoot it through the glass. Heck, it would be as easy to kill as a robin or a squirrel!


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## nickwesterholm (Nov 16, 2006)

i'm w/ everyone that wants to shoot this thing. i wouldn't want this thing roaming around my backyard. i don't care if it's not hurting anything. it could hurt something. if i had a safe chance to shoot this w/o putting myself or my family in danger i'd put a bullet in it. just my feelings, my opinion. everyone has there own opinions.


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## mallardrocker (Nov 29, 2006)

that just scares me......

i once read in reader digest that a moutain lion had figured out the girls routine to go outside and feed her dog. I guess the cat would hide in the bush and one day she went out and BOOM! They think that becuase i beleive there was other storied to back this up... Could be wrong but chech it out yourself. There was a whole chapter on Mountain Lion killing


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Ok in the email it says that the guy taking the picture has a small child playing on the floor 10 feet away, and that the kid noticed it not the dad. The dad then took these pics. I would have had the cross hairs on it's forehead. If you don't shoot it, and it wanders away, you can bet your butt it will be back. It may not be tomorrow, it may not even be your house, but it will come in contact with someone again. If it comes up on the deck it obviously isn't scared.

I think that if you didn't put it down you would have a hard time convincing your kids or wife to go outside at night, or even a male for that matter. I believe the right thing to do would have been to take it down. My .02


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## 94silverado (Oct 16, 2005)

I have to agree with sure its not hurting anything but it could. That would be like haveing a man with a bunch of felony arrest holding a .44 Magnum sitting on your porch he isn't hurting anything he's just sitting there but would you want him there.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Very good analogy!


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## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

There is no way you're going to get in trouble in SD or ND for killing a lion stareing in your house! Season or no season, if its in my yard, its a danger, and will be shot!


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## proagr465 (Nov 18, 2006)

amen


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Good gosh. I bet some of you damn near wreck, running off the road to hit a snake.

Yeah never mind that the snake was miles from your house - he probably was just going to follow you home.

What numskulls... :eyeroll: uke:


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

Sasha and Abby said:


> Good gosh. I bet some of you damn near wreck, running off the road to hit a snake.
> 
> Yeah never mind that the snake was miles from your house - he probably was just going to follow you home.
> 
> What numskulls... :eyeroll: uke:


What exactly is your point? 
Compating a snake to a cougar is like comparing an pea to a watermellon. If it was a rattlesnake on my deck, I'd kill that too!
The pictures were of a cougar on the deck of a house stalking children on the kitchen floor, not "miles from your house".


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Plus with the snake you get a cool rattle out of the deal!


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

No i don't think robins and squirrels are the same as a mountain lion but just sittin on your deck they are doin the same thing. My point was that lion is just as curious about what it sees as the robin or the squirrel or even a stray house cat. If it wandered into your yard of course it is going to check things out and duh if its dark out and it sees lights on in your house through a big glass door and also sees movement it is going to check it out.

Yes i do agree that this lion could possibly hurt someone, but just because it might hurt someone doesn't give anyone the right to just shoot it because its there. Like i said in an earlier post if you are scared and don't think it is going to go away and it might hurt someone call the Game and Fish and they will come dart it and go realease it where it won't bother anyone.

A buddy of mine came across a similar situation a couple years ago, but his problem was with wolves. They never showed any agression towards anyone but were there and were harrassing his cows. He called the game warden before he was going to shoot them and they told him not to because it wasn't legal. A day later they showed up and either trapped or darted them and took them away.

I also agree i wouldn't want a guy with felony arrests and a 44 mag on my deck either, but if there just happened to be one I sure wouldn't shoot him either. I would call the cops and they could come take care of him. Now if either was making an actual attempt at getting in my house and i thought they were going to get in before help arrived I would have to shoot them.


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

Okay lets figure this out. Ever take a picture through a window with a flash?? All that show's up in the picture is a FLASH!! (just a reflection). Therefore no flash was used. And if I shot every animal that would or could kill me that stepped foot in my yard I'd have shot 50 bears over the years. I was actually charged by one that attacked my dog on the edge of my deck. I hate the SOB's now and even carry a flashlight to my truck in the am. and have a 10 gauge sitting next to the door cause I'm shell shocked from the ordeal. Since then I've watched them look at my windows and I know one has been the "ONE that charged" but I don't shoot. Someday he may get me, I hope not, but I'm not going to shoot the innocent ones, just because one of them commited a Felony!!!


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

AC700wildcat,

I see what you are saying, however the chances of this cat doing harm is extremly high. If that door wasn't there the kid would have been gone. I think we can all agree on that. Now, how do you think that kid felt the next day when he was sitting on the front porch waiting for the school bus to come? There is some times that you need to make a decision and be a normal human being and stick up and protect your family. 
As to a guy with a gun in your house you will be sitting in jail if the guys family has any form of a good lawyer, because the North Dakota Century code reads that you must make a attempt to flee your residence. If you had small children, and coulden't get out because you don't have a back door, you might be justified.

Needless to say that lion should have been shot. My girlfriend lives 10 miles from the area where the lion was released from the trapper near Grassy Bute, and I have to walk her to her car every morning, because she is so scared of the lions, and she has only seen them at a distance. If she would have seen that in the window I don't think she would ever go outside. She carries bear spray with her at all times, and brings her dogs with her when she goes for runs outside. If that lion came to the door and I didn't shoot it I think she would prolly shoot me becasue she would be so mad.

Shot the lion it's alot easier than loosing a kid or a wife, or even your own life. My .02


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## 94silverado (Oct 16, 2005)

There seems to be a lot of good points being brought up now i am starting to rethink what i said earlier. It seems to me if it was just doing some harmless snooping around i would take a crapload of pictures and call game and fish. But if it took some extraordinary attention to me, my Fiancee or my pets i may get a little worried But to be honest with some of the points made after my post i think i am changeing my stand on the matter. Please continue on i love what i learn on this website.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

So you would have blasted him?


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

> but just because it might hurt someone doesn't give anyone the right to just shoot it because its there.


If it's there, and it could possibly hurt someone, yes, that does give someone the right to shoot it. You could not talk me out of shooting that thing if it was on my back porch. Just because he's curious like all the robins and squirrels, doesn't make him harmless. His curiosity kills. That thing has the power to kill you in a split second, so comparing it to a snake miles from your home, a squirrel, or any bird, is not going to fly with me.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Not to mention if he felt like it/was provoked enough that door woulden't even slow him down. There has been many cases where deer go through doors/windows and do damage. If he wanted to he could have been through that glass in a second.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I guess we are scared of what we don't know here in North Dakota. We aren't used to having these animals around us. People in areas where there is actually a large population of mountain lions don't go around killing them just in case. The people in these areas have learned to live with them around and be more alert when outside. I think in the coming years we are also going to have to do this as these animals along with wolves and bears expand their territories into our state. We won't be able to just go around shooting them all because they are in our yard. I haven't heard of any lions around here (Devils Lake) but have seen wolves as i said earlier and have heard of a few bears pretty close to town. When i lived in Minnesota I had a few friends that lived in the country that would tell me they would have wolves in their yard at night all the time and yet none of them were ever harmed either, they just learned to live with them there. But I think that everyone knows how i stand so I'm gonna let everyone else discuss this and sit back and watch.

Matt


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

Sorry one more thing. As I was typing I missed hunt4P&Y's last post. He makes a good point but also kinda pointed something else out at the same time. You are right if he wanted through that glass to eat the kid he would have went through that glass, but he didn't. To me that says he's not the cold blooded killer everyone has been trying to say he is cuz if he was he woulda been through that glass.

lllllllllllllllllllater


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

True true.. I still would have shot him. Just for the piece of mind. Good point though.


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## justund223 (Aug 28, 2006)

That third picture says it all for me. it is obviously a mature cat, by the size and how its belly hangs. young cats might be curious, mature cats are very smart and this one was looking for a quick meal.


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## proagr465 (Nov 18, 2006)

Now everyone is starting to see my point


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

All I can say is S....S....S...!


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Looks like a young cat to me


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## Bgunit68 (Dec 26, 2006)

Man, awesome pic. I don't know what I would do if I saw that. Yes I do, "Honey would you mind bringing out the trash tonight? And don't forget to wear that steak necklace I made for you!" LOL. (that would be the ex.)


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## cut'em (Oct 23, 2004)

Don't forget to mention to her about the neighbors loosing their cat and they posted a large reward! This way she'll add the "here kitty kitty" to the mix. Might as well do it right :beer:


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## Horker23 (Mar 2, 2006)

i would of cut him down and bought a new window. to much to risk, dogs?


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## proagr465 (Nov 18, 2006)

Atta boy MSG Rude! :beer:


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## bmwcash10 (Oct 11, 2006)

Would have took him out, stays that long to get his picture taken. His not scared of humans at all. Some people might be mad by this decision but I would be kicking myself if he attacks my family or my dogs.


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## slipstream (Dec 29, 2006)

In the whole of the US and Canada from 1991 to 2003 there were 76 reported mountain lion attacks with 10 fatalities. To label them as "man killers" is patently ridiculous. The cat in the picture is a young cat in good health. It is almost surely an escaped or released pet that is not afraid of humans and is looking for a handout, not a young child to kill. Mountain lion attacks are almost always in the cat's environment, and involve a cat that has an explanation for its aggression (ie: young ones nearby or emaciated and desparate for food). A young, healthy cat that displays little fear of humans by standing on a porch is not a "man killer", but is curious or hungry and used to getting handouts from humans (not fed live children)

If you care to understand a little bit about the animal, you'd realize this animal is not a threat.

Incidentally, in the US, there are 150 fatalities and 10,000 personal injuries caused each year by deer/car accidents. Next time proagr465 sees a deer near a road that he or his family travels, I expect he will hastily dispatch the man killer.


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## bmwcash10 (Oct 11, 2006)

Those 76 people must have decided not to shoot the lion. Think what the numbers might be if everybody decided to let them walk.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I would have thought the deer car crashes would have been higher.

Ok now run the numbers on how many deer there are in the US vs. Mt. Lions and find the ratio of that. See which is more likely to kill you. You can beat your a$$ you the ratio of MT. lions is way higher. If the cat is out of it's cage it is wild. If it had a leash and a coller on it I would have still shot it.


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## slipstream (Dec 29, 2006)

Deer/car crash numbers are much higher than those numbers. Those numbers are just fatalities and injuries.

In 2004 to 2006, 76 people in the US died from dog attacks, so make sure you also kill all dogs you come across, because you never know which dog might be the one.

Ratios mean nothing in this comparison, beause I was talking about comparative risk. The fact is clear: you stand a much greater chance (about 150 to 1) of being killed by a deer/car collission than by a mountain lion. Fewer mountain lions make for fewer contacts, so your ratio of fatality argument really doesn't apply.

My point was twofold: A realistic assement of the situation reveals that this animal is no "man killer" and realistically not a threat. Secondly, if you were to treat all perceived threats as proagr465 proposes, you should really focus on things that are more likely to kill you, like dogs or deer.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

You Just said it in your reaction that the ratio means nothing. There are way more deer, so the risk of being killed by one is going to be higher than the risk of being killed by a MT. LION. If there was as many MT> LIONS as there are deer we would all be screwed. 
I was just trying to prove that your comparison made no sense.

Im not trying to get personal but I guess it just doesn't make sense.


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## M*F (Nov 3, 2006)

slipstream said:


> In the whole of the US and Canada from 1991 to 2003 there were 76 reported mountain lion attacks with 10 fatalities.


Sources please?


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## Bagman (Oct 17, 2002)

I saw just 2 weeks ago on TV, a fella in California who was seriously mauled by a cougar(http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/25/mounta ... index.html). He was saved only because his wife was able to beat it off of him before it ripped his throat out. He looked frightening after the attack and fell deathly ill a few days later as a result of the infection and nearly died. Cats attack people far too often for anyone to take chances if they appear near your home and or family. To equate cats to wolves is also ridiculous as there has NEVER been a reported attack by a wolf on a human in US history.

There have been at least 25 reported ATTACKS by mountain lions on people in the US and Canada since 2001 (source:http://www.cougarinfo.com/attacks3.htm).

Only a moron would allow one of these fur covered killing machines to roam his backyard freely.


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## slipstream (Dec 29, 2006)

M*F,

The source for the number of reported attacks and fatalities is: http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks.html. Just so you know, I'm not against hunting mountain lion or trying to make any such statement.

hunt4P&Y,

Don't worry, I'm not taking your responses as personal, nor am I intenting mine to be. I apologize if I came off as getting personal.

My original point that you responded to does, in fact, make sense. My point was that if reponse is warranted by risk assesment, then violent response to deer near or on the road would be as appropriate or more appropriate than the reponse proposed by proagr465, especially given the logical conclusions that can be drawn about the particlar mountain lion. I was also pointing out that absurdity of referring to the cat as a "man killer". That type of prejudicial labelling is not conducive to constructive 
conversation and not really worthy of sportsmen.

I wouldn't for a second second guess a person's actual killing of a mountain lion in percieved protection of family or pet, because I wouldn'[t be there to place myself in the situation. I'm only making comments concerning the hypothetical posed by these pictures.

Again, I mean no personal attack or inflamatory language, and apologize if I've erred in this manner.


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## Goose Guy350 (Nov 29, 2004)

I really, really think this is someone's pet, have any of you seen a cat look that fat in the wild maybe besides a pregnant female right before giving birth.

As far as wether or not to shoot it is a case of how threatened a person feels in a situation. In Alaska we worked alongside brown bears and black bears, and here in the UP black bear are common place even coming into the house to raid bird feeders and in recent years wolves have become frequent. I guess it comes down to how comfortbale you get with you company.


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## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

slipstream, maybe you could go out and pet it and talk over ur numbers with it and tell it its a good kitty....SSS.....p.s. again take it as tounge in cheek


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## phred zink (Feb 15, 2007)

if i saw that mountain lion outside my door I'd probably just try to scare it off somehow... but if i had kids involved I'd probably shoot it... :sniper:


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