# AR for coyotes



## papapete

I'm really thinking about getting into one of these, but I really don't know much about them. There seems to be so many different ways to set one up. I'm looking for some solid advise on what i do and don't need for a good coyote hunting rifle. I want a gun that's very accurate. Are AR's known for accuracy? I'm assuming the longer the barrel the more accurate they are.

Have any of you ever built your own AR? Is this something I should even consider for my first one.
Any advice would be much appreciated. 
:beer:


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## striped1

I wouldn't recommend building one without an armorers course at minimum. They are not rocket science, but there are some pitfalls that could frustrate you and your wallet.

Barrel length isn't as important as barrel quality, twist rate, free floating barrel and trigger. You can get sub moa out of barrels under 16 inches with the right ammo.


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## nitwit

My two cents-
I have built 3 AR's and have a 4th in progress. If you have the time and patience to do the research and learn how to build them I believe you will have a blast. I will say that right now you will have to be VERY patient - some parts are difficult to find. I find that choosing and finding the parts and doing the build is even more fun that shooting them.
My advice to anyone who has decided to build:
1. get familiar with AR15.com - EVEYTHING you need to know is there or you can ask.
2. look at as many AR's as you can and write down all the stuff you want and how you want it to look.
3. hunt around for the parts - there can be large differences in price.
4. don't think you can build one for less than you can buy one whole - it just doesn't seem to work out that way.
As far as accuracy, in order of importance, I would say:
1. barrel quality
2. trigger
Of course, free float the barrel.
Outside of the gun, finding the right load combination is very important to accuracy - like any rifle, I guess.
FYI, the 2nd one I built is the most accurate, it is:
20" Olympic Arms SUM barrel 1:9 twist - chrome moly post ban
JP Enterprises trigger group = 3# pull with anti-walk pins.
Also, in my opinion, the AR is the worlds greatest predator gun.
Nitwit


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## papapete

Thanks for the help so far. If I were to buy one put together, what brands should i look into?


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## nitwit

Papapete,
I guess if you want all the parts to come from the same company I would suggest Olympic Arms or DPMS. You might visit their websites as well as Model 1 Sales and Rock River Arms sites to get an idea of the numerous options and possibilities. In my opinion, other than the barrel and the trigger the brands are of little importance - all the parts, I believe, are mil-spec and are interchangeable.
If you do decide to build I would be happy to do my best to answer any questions you might have. I certainly don't know it all but I know when I don't know.

Nitwit


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## striped1

most parts are interchangable but not all are milspec and not all are of the same quality.

my first choice is LMT. Colt then bushy, dpms, stag, rock river etc.

once you get past Larue, Noveske, Bravo Company, GTS and Greg sullivan's as the best of the bunch, LMT and colt are the best of the production then bushy dpms etc.


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## bontop2

I have been using an ar for 2 years now and instead of building one i purchased a bushmaster varminter it is floated and fluted with a 24 inch barrel and a 2 stage trigger.. very accurate gun!! have it shooting under .5 inch groups 5 shots at a hundred yards.. I have a good 22-250 also but seldomly use it any more..


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## Centerfire

I was in the same boat last year - I bought a R15 VTR Remington/Bushmaster in 223 (suckered for the low price and camo finish). 5 shot groups run 1-1/2 to 2" (Often 3 of 5 in less than 1/2" but always a flyer in each group) The trigger has a lot of creep that will be my first modification. Also having difficulty getting used to short pull and pistol grip (time and practice I guess).

Hind site my purchase would have been Rock River Arms - Varmint EOP with 20" or 24" barrel. Why 3/4" Accuracy Guarantee, Wylde chamber (shots commercial 223 and military 5.56 NATO), EOP provides a solid raised mount for scope (eliminates ridiculously high scope mounts) and price reasonable $1,115.

Everyone I know who has built there own seem to end up with > $1,000 invested before they have a 3/4" shooter

Just my 2 cents

The other suggestion consider 243 cal version - something that could be used on Deer


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## Jaybic

Papapeete,

An AR will make you an awesome coyote rifle but there are certain features you will want to make sure it has. I have been using my AR(DPMS) for calling for maybe 8 years now and have taken my only true double with it when four came in. Bark...stop bang...bark stop bang and thats really about how long it took and I dang near got a third one.

ARs need pretty much 3 things to shoot well. good barrel, trigger and to be free-floated and you can buy them over the counter with most of that. I upgraded my trigger to a JP match grade and have it set at about 2.5lbs and it is very nice. 20 inches of barrel is plenty as most of the powder is burnt by the time the bullet exits so I dont know what all that extra 4 inches of barrel will do. I would avoid the heavy barrels too cause they get REALLY nose heavy to hold up. I originally had a heavy 20 in barrel and I had my GS turn it down and took of nearly 1lb!!!!! Might not seem it but that is alot.

You could go a few different ways with this but here is my .02. If money is a thing, I would buy the cheapest AR I could find with a 16 or 20 inch barrel because they are super-upgradeable and you can always add the nice trigger and the float tube later(fairly cheap to add these items) or just go out and buy an R15 by Remington. Its already cammo and I dont know anything about their triggers but it will have everything else(float tube and descent barrel) and you can add a really nice trigger later for about 150.00 and your set. My AR will put 5 bullets under a dime at 100 yards most days.

Thats plenty accurate for a damn good calling rifle IMHO.

Good luck,

Jaybic


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## People

I also suggest going to model1sales.com to see all the options. As far as tubes go http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/ are on top. I would stay away from Colt. They do not use standard size pins. If you want to go gray and then pull your hair out then they are great.

Here reciently I have been taking my 16 inch CAR15 with a scope on it. I do not mind heavy rifles at all but this thing is so light it is like not having a rifle with.

Yes Chuck Norris has a deep and abiding respect for human life... unless it gets in his way.


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## JeffinPA

The Bushmaster Predator and R-15 triggers are absolutely dreadful for this guy used to shooting crisp single stage triggers. For that reason, I'm not a two stage trigger fan, but the most meaningful upgrade I made to my AR is a Timney non-skeletonized 3#er. I considered the JP et al, but decided that the drop in style was better suited for me--a very novice gun smith. Definitely buy a set of anti-walk trigger and hammer pins while you're at it. I got mine from Brownells, and the Timney direct from Timney.

nb: For all I know the trigger above is the best two stage trigger on the planet. I just don't have any experience with them, and prefer a nice crisp wall and clean break.


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## bontop2

I love my two stage trigger... When I hit the stop point I know there is just a hair left and if i'm shooting fast I don't even feel it..


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## SDHandgunner

papapete I am no expert about AR's by any stretch of the imagination. I have had two to date (and still have one). I started out with a DPMS Panther Bull 20 Fluted. I set it up with a 4.5x14x40mm AO Nikon Buckmaster Riflescope. That DPMS was scary accurate, but the very first time I carried it out calling Coyotes I knew it was not what I had intended when I bought it.

After about 6 months I sold the DPMS and bought a Bushmaster 16" M4 Optics Ready Carbine. This Bushmaster came with Yankee Hill Machine 1/2" Scope Riser Blocks so I just used Weaver 1" High Extension Quad Lock 4x4 Scope Rings to mount up my 1.5x4.5x32mm Bushnell Elite 3200 Firefly Riflescope. Man does this thing carry great, and it doesn't shoot too bad either.

I also did a few other modifications to the Bushmaster that include:

JP Enterprises Fire Control System with Adjustable Trigger & Speed Hammer

Badger Ordinance Tactical Charging Handle Latch

KNS Sling Swivel Studs so I can use Detachable Sling Swivels

SOG Recoil Pad for the 6 Position Collapsable Buttstock (I needed the extra length)

In addition I am in the process of replacing the M4 Handguards with a DPMS Aluminum Ribbed Free Float Tube (as soon as it and the tools get here that is)

My Bushmaster is not as accurate as the DPMS was. However shooting the same exact load the Bushmaster will consistantly print 3/4" 5 shot 100 yard groups from the bench (the DPMS would do 1/2" or slightly less).

Fully equipped for hunting complete with a C Products 20 round magazine (with 15 rounds in it), an Uncle Mikes 1 1/4" quick adjust sling, scope & mounts my 16" Bushmaster tips the scales at 8 1/2 pounds (the DPMS was 12 st up ready to hunt). The balance is great and it is a joy to carry.

If I were to start all over again I'd probably opt for a 20" standard weight barrel. I have to agree that the Barrel, Trigger and Free Float Tube are very important items.

There are so many options out there I would suggest going to a few sporting goods stores or gun shows and handle as many different configurations you can and see what feels good to you.

Larry


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## JeffinPA

bontop2 said:


> I love my two stage trigger... When I hit the stop point I know there is just a hair left and if i'm shooting fast I don't even feel it..


I guess I just don't get it. What's the point of that travel? Why not just have it go bang when you touch it with no creep? What's the advantage?


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## People

The advantage of the two stage trigger is in service rifle competition it states you have to have at a min a 4.5lb trigger. You can have the first stage set for 3.5lb then the last stage set to 1lb. You can take up the first little bit then it is like a 1lb trigger.

Safety can be a issue if you go to light. Also with a two stage trigger if it starts wearing out you still have a trigger pull before the rifle fires.

The Bermuda Triangle used to be the Bermuda Square, until Chuck Norris Roundhouse kicked one of the corners off.


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## JeffinPA

Ahhhh, now I get it. For any of my applications, a three pound crisp one stage trigger, seems to be the better fit. Thanks for that explanation.


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## papapete

This is some great info guys. I'll let you know what I do.


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## nosib

Have you decided what kind ar-15 you want to get?


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## critterhunter

I have two AR15s both Colts I have a preban match HBar and a accurized. I use the Hbar for walking and the accurized for on stand. If you want to build your own buy a Rock River complete lower and a White Oak arms upper that would be my choice. If you like the Rock Rivers I would get the Predator Persuit. JMO What you dont want to do is cheap out on optics and mounts. There is a predator site on AR15.com that has some good advice. Good luck on your choice.


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## Goose Bandit

bontop2 and i have been shooting these the last 2 years with flawless results!!!! Bushmaster Varminter's!!!!! looked at alot of different AR's and these 2 make the grade. you will NOT be disappointed with this tool.......


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## JeffinPA

BTW, if you haven't pulled the trigger yet, here is a very inexpensive way to get your feet wet with a nice (but by no means top of the line) AR for $699 and the best part is that its IN STOCK! Cool thing about these, is that you can upgrade every little part as your tastes evolve and your budget allows. This will keep you quite entertained in the meantime.

Here's the link:
http://www.impactguns.com/store/884451000082.html#63676

Whether you are buying your first AR rifle, or need an affordable yet accurate plinking gun, the Panther "Sportical"™ is for you. Built to bridge the gap between the Sporting and Tactical markets, this introductory level carbine features a 16" light contour barrel, a slick-sided Lo-Pro upper receiver with Picatinny Rail, heat dissipating GlacierGuards™ and a collapsible, six-position Pardus™ buttstock. Altogether, it weighs in at only 6.3 lbs.

The slick sided, Lo-Pro upper receiver allows a shooter to choose their favorite optic to mount to the Picatinny Rail. The 16" barrel, although light, provides plenty of velocity for most sporting and tactical applications. The Pardus™ stock makes this carbine comfortable for any shooter.

Description

Barrel: 
16" Lite Contour w/A2 flash hider (birdcage) 
4140 chrome-moly steel 
6 grooves, right-hand 1x9 twist,button rifled

Chamber: 
5.56x45mm

Method of Operation: 
Gas operated rotating bolt

Bolt & Carrier: 
8620 steel bolt carrier, heat treatedand plated per Mil Spec 
Phosphated steel bolt, heat treatedand plated per Mil Spec

Sights:
None (mounting optics only), Scope NOT INCLUDED

Weight: 
Empty - 6.3 lbs.

Length: 
Extended: 36 3/8" 
Collapsed: 32 1/2"

Upper Receiver: 
Flattop Lo-Pro, Extruded 
6066-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy 
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec 
Right hand ejection

Lower Receiver: 
Forged 7075-T6 aircraft aluminum alloy 
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec 
Semi-Auto trigger group 
Aluminum trigger guard 
Aluminum magazine release button

Stock:
DPMS Pardus Carbine Stock

Handguards: 
GlacierGuards- Oval Carbine Length Aluminum Delta Ring


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## RJ

I just got this built. It is a White Oak Armament 204 caliber upper on a stag lower. I will be putting a Leupold VXII 6-18 on it. I am waiting for a new Burris PEPR scope mount. Have shot it a few times and love it so far.


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## JeffinPA

Sweet looking rig. I saw that PEPR mount online when I was rigging my own, and wanted to get it, but didn't want to wait. Let us know what you think of it after you get it installed, please. Looks like similar quality to the LaRue that costs triple the price.


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## deadyote

People said:


> I also suggest going to model1sales.com to see all the options. As far as tubes go http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/ are on top. I would stay away from Colt. They do not use standard size pins. If you want to go gray and then pull your hair out then they are great.
> 
> Here reciently I have been taking my 16 inch CAR15 with a scope on it. I do not mind heavy rifles at all but this thing is so light it is like not having a rifle with.
> 
> Yes Chuck Norris has a deep and abiding respect for human life... unless it g ts in his way.


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## johngfoster

I started hunting coyotes with my AR (16" Bushy M4gery). I then "upgraded to a Remington 700 22-250. Truth be told, I've killed more coyotes with the AR. With an optic like an ACOG mounted on top (4X), I think it makes a perfect coyote rifle. Can be very accurate, shorter barrel makes for faster action, semi-auto makes for much faster follow-up shots, and low power optic is all you need for most shots.

Most of the time one tries to call them in close, so the low-power optic is perfect. I've missed more shots with my 22-250 because of trying to re-position the rifle or dial down the scope or losing the coyote in the scope than I have killed coyotes with that rifle. When I get the money to put an ACOG on top of my AR, I think I'll go back to shooting 40gr V-Max 223 from Black Hills as my go-to coyote rig.


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## striped1

JeffinPA said:


> Looks like similar quality to the LaRue that costs triple the price.


There is no equal to Larue. The zero repeatibility, strength and tolerances are far superior to anything else.


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## RJ

striped1 said:


> JeffinPA said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like similar quality to the LaRue that costs triple the price.
> 
> 
> 
> There is no equal to Larue. The zero repeatibility, strength and tolerances are far superior to anything else.
Click to expand...

I would agree they are probably superior but I am not spending that much on a mount. The PEPR has exceeded my expectations thus far. They are better value for the money imo.


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