# Deer dog ranging out to far?



## p67 (Nov 4, 2008)

Small intro

I live in NZ. I have spent 20 years hunting deer. Mainly Red deer. With success, there was a time when I did it for a job.

Recently I came into a dog. That is a mate didn't want it anymore. 2 year old German shorted haired pointer *****. He had used it for hunting deer and ducks with some success. I haven't exactly got out of him how much success.

So I have this dog now. I have no interest in bird hunting. Which is a shame because this dog looks to be a very good bird dog. I live on a farm and it already nailed a chicken, a bantam and a thrush. Great. I am weaning it off birds now.

The dog is pretty steady for a GSP i.e not schizophrenic. It doesn't appear to have any formal training. It now has a good heal. A bullet proof stay and come. So its a start.

Okay. Intro over.

NZ bush is responsibly tight. Not like the nice woodland pictures I have seen in the US and videos on YouTube.

The dog (being a bird dog I guess) currently ranges out to about 100yards. This is not good for hunting deer in NZ. I would never see it and would be better off hunting by myself.

How can I retrain her to stay 10 to 20ft in front of me?

Any ideas welcome.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

what can a dog do for you if its 10-20 ft in front of you?


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## p67 (Nov 4, 2008)

I don't know what training she has had so far. Has a very good stay, so that must have been drilled in at some point. Lived on a sheep farm as well.

Basically the dog will be used as an indicator. Which is to say it wind scents and follows the 'cone' of scent until it see's the deer then stops and points. At that stage you can usually walk up behind it, look straight over its ears and there should be a deer standing there.

Our hunting in NZ is a little diff from yours. I have taken guys from the states out before, so I know some of the basic differences.

The NZ bush can be rather tight in places. 10-30m vis tops. Sometimes not even that much. Having a dog that runs 50-100m ahead of you would not be much good as you could never see it. Problem with that being if the dog gets the idea that its sposed to be hunting without you ('cause your always too far behind) it will think its meant to do it by itself and chase deer all over the forest. Which often means a lost dog.

I read the sticky on training blood dogs. Sounds similar to the way you might train a tracking dog. Difference being the blood dog is tracking the scent of the blood and a pure tracking dog is tracking scent from disturbed ground. Slight difference.

Tracking dogs are usually trained with the wind behind them to get their nose on the ground.

The idea of a check cord has been raised before. 20ft tops. The idea being that the dog gets used to being that far ahead and no further. I tried that today, but as soon as I put the harness on her, she stayed at the heal. Thats better than her running off ahead I guess.

I havent started tracking training yet. Need to get some deer tails (where the scent gland is). I have a method in mind, basically train it to track.

Problem I see with a dog that has been used for birds is it will range to far ahead and you will have no idea where it is or what it is doing in the bush. There is no point calling "come in" all the time etc etc... as the deer will just run away.

I guess your using the dog for its nose. I can smell deer if they are close but a dog can usually indicate right at them and smell them further away.


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## p67 (Nov 4, 2008)

Forgot to add. I have been using a choke chain thus far. Only lightly though.

The dog is pretty strong willed but looks like it could be easily broken by over discipline so its a fine line between getting her to listen and ending up with a timid useless dog. I think she will be okay.

I tried using food rewards as a method but she doesn't appear to care.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I've trained lots of shorthairs to hunt deer here in the US and think this is not going to work.

Shorthairs will point them just like birds and many whitetail deer here will hold until you approach then break and run allowing the shot.

You need to get some deer scent and place it in a line about 50 yards apart upwind in a series and pick a large open field to start in and walk her on a check cord across wind until she hits the scent cone and points. After she establishes a point walk in front of her toward the scent pick it up and then release her upwind with a touch to the head a word of praise and a release command like"ok" to the next spot you've placed a scent rag. Continue to do this until she understands shes to stand until released once she hits the DEER scent.

The range thing is just not going to work her range is her range, the level of intimidation to make a 100 yard dog a 20 foot dog is going to ruin her.

You could purchase a astro and approach her when she points you will also need a ecollar to teach her not to chase them, and that is a fine line to walk. I let mine chase for 50 yards or so then call them back, if they refuse they are corrected using light stimulation for disobeying the callback, not for chasing.

What you are attempting is going to be very hard IMO. I hunt my dogs in clear cuts which are brushy areas from former logging operations. They point the deer I shoot them with my drilling, they point the birds I shoot them with my drilling I do not mess with their natural range.

In my opinion you should find a good home for the dog and try to find any dog that will naturally stay within 20 feet of you and train it as I suggested above, you can teach any dog to stand game.


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## p67 (Nov 4, 2008)

I was going to do a very similar thing you suggested with the deer scent using deer tails (we don't use deer scent here). The tail has a scent gland in it.

There is a possibility that if she doesn't work out my sister is going to have her for birds and I will go with my original plan to get a Visler (which is the choice of deer dog here currently).

Was talking with my mate on the phone last night who has used her for hunting deer exclusively since 2 months old on deer. He says shes finds deer well, points etc. He never trained her not to break when he fired as she would often run shot deer down and bail them (her brother actually grabbed one by the throat and brought it down). So she knows the drill just needs some fine tuning.

She was free too!.

Cheers for the tips.


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## p67 (Nov 4, 2008)

Yeah. Soz. Vizsla.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Vizsla

Have become popular in NZ for deer hunting in the last 5 years maybe. Haven't been around in this country for ever put it that way.

As with all dog breeds there are good strains and bad ones. I know guys who have the good ones as opposed to the so called house/show lines and swear by them.


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