# POSSESSION LIMIT QUESTION



## OBSESSED (Nov 23, 2006)

I know every state may be different, I'm in MN, but does anyone know for sure after birds are processed into "food" do they still count as your possession, or must you consume them all before they are no longer considered to be in your possession?

Example: I made goose jerky and its in the freezer ready to be eaten, does this count anymore? Im not sure how a warden would be able to piece the pieces of jerky together and legally tell me how many birds I'm over? :bop: I dont mean to sound like a glutten or a wasteful carnivore. I eat all my game very quickly never wasting any or feeding the dogs, like I've seen others do just to "be legal" I hunt and eat anything I kill, just a question. Any feedback appreciated!


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## sore-shoulder (Mar 25, 2010)

From the 2012 Regs:
"Processed geese are still subject to daily and possession limit regulations"
"Termination of possession can only be accomplished by: (1) Gifting of legally harvested game, (2) by consuming the game."


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I have mixed feelings about possession limits. They are primarily an enforcement tool for wardens to help prosecute people who grossly exceed their daily limits. But if I am going to kill 40 geese over the course of a season, as possession limits are enforced I would be forced to eat most of them during the hunting season instead of being able to enjoy birds all year around. As long as they all get eaten what really is the difference? I also agree that once it is processed it would be pretty tough for any warden to tell what it is or prove how many birds it equals without extensive lab testing. FWIW processed wild game is less likely to be wasted than the raw meat because of the investment one has in it.

Think about this... we have a 15 bird (30 possession) limit for the early Canada season. I currently have 20 birds but on Saturday the season closes. When it reopens, if I don't eat any birds before thenand if a warden came to check my freezer I would be over the regular season possession limit. Which possession limit will they apply for that calendar year?


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## dave young (Jul 17, 2011)

I've always thought that posession ends when the game reaches ones place of residence or the post office/UPS whatever. Otherwise, why would a non-resident be able to ship home a posession limit and keep hunting? 
I maintain that the feds intentionally write these regs with a lot of "grey".

I think you can have 50 geese in your freezer, but only 30 in your truck.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Dave.

I don't think NR can ship home a possession limit then keep hunting. I might be wrong but I think that is against the law. Because possession limits are still even when you are home. Because R hunters can have a possession limit of birds in the freezer and go out and shoot another daily limit. That would put them over the "possession" limit. Unless I am totally wrong on this. But that is my take on that subject.

But now with the processed game.... I am not sure. That is a tricky question. I know a warden once told me that even if the birds are in the crock pot cooking and going to be eaten that night. I still better not have more than my possession in the freezer, truck (if I was hunting that day) and crock pot. So lets use ducks are a reference point. If I took 3 days off to hunt birds. Day 1 I shoot 6 ducks. Day 2 I shoot six ducks. I am at my possession limit. On the morning of day 3.... I put 3 birds in the crock pot. I better not go out and shoot 3 more birds before I eat the ones in the crock pot. That is the way it was explained to me.


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## OBSESSED (Nov 23, 2006)

thanks fellas, wish "gifting" away geese was as easy as pheasants or walleyes


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

OBSESSED said:


> thanks fellas, wish "gifting" away geese was as easy as pheasants or walleyes


Just tell them that its a pheasant with steriods.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I believe many state regulations are more liberal as to when "possession" ends. In many cases that is when it hits the freezer. However the Federal regulations are the ones that consider it "in possession" until it is consumed.


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## teamflightstoppersND (Feb 20, 2009)

There is no "freezer limit" for walleyes or pheasants because they are not federally regulated.

I believe the possesion limit for waterfowl is also a "freezer limit", The feds really are not clear on what happens when early season ends and reular season starts. I would be safe and eat as much as possible and dont get in trouble so no one will inspect your freezer.


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

OBSESSED said:


> thanks fellas, wish "gifting" away geese was as easy as pheasants or walleyes


It is if you gift to members of your household.


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## templey_41 (Jul 19, 2008)

I gift them to my dogs! They eat em right up :beer:


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## tilley (Jul 28, 2011)

So you're saying you have a hard time pawning off 15-20 "flying turds" on people so you can go kill more? Hard to believe people are'nt lining up to take them off your hands. Walleye=ish, Shot up pin feathery $hiz pond geese that you left lay in your truck for a couple days=yummy


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## Dunk221999 (Sep 11, 2002)

Maybe you should just not hunt anymore till you are legal and eat them up??? How mant of those stinky things do you want?


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## dndhomes (May 26, 2011)

the way I understand the reg. is POssession limit is for each person in the house hold regardless if they hunt or not.Otherwise you couldnt give birds to landowner or anyone without licenice.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

You can search the archives on this as the Fed regulations concerning this have not changed! Processing them into sausage or jerky does not as stated end possession. The only real change is clarification for people having birds processed for shipping home. Did not change possession limit, just made it easier for people to transport or ship birds without breaking some of the rules regarding identification.

Thpossessionon limit on Canada geese is not murky at all. In the eyes of the Feds new season or not, to legally be hunting Canada geese you are not to have any in youpossessionon. This question has been asked many times. Thcaveatat comment from the USFWS was that you really are not at risk unless you do something that is going to warrant them coming to your home with a warrant and if that is the case, my bet is that those early season geese are not what they are looking for!

We eat what we shoot, but I do have a few people that will take ducks and geese or any game whenever it is offered. Might be that it is cleaned and ready for the pan or pot when they get it!


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## dsm16428 (Feb 19, 2009)

I might be wrong on this but this was explained to me by a USFWS agent years ago.

Your posession limit is what you have in total numbers of birds, per hunter (usually twice the daily limit), be it processed or not. The nice thing is, you absolutely CAN gift your birds to anyone, including other members of the household wether they hunt or not. If you have 6 people in the home, 2 hunt, and your posession limit is say 16 birds, you can actually legally have 96 birds in the freezer...as long as you tag each posession limit with each person's name.


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## OBSESSED (Nov 23, 2006)

thanks for all the feed back, i was unaware family members w/o a license can have a limit also but it makes sense to me now. Either way if I dont start shooting better I dont think ill have to worry much!


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

God...when it comes to the point where COs are going door-to-door and checking freezers for possession limits, that's when I stop giving them another red cent because they obviously have way too much time and/or money on their hands.

I'd say the people that ought to be worried about possession limits are the doofuses who can't keep their yaps shut about hunting 5 days a week and getting limits every time. That, and OGs. Or if the local trash guy begins to notice an exorbitant amount of freeze-burned wild game in the same trash receptacles week after week. If that's you, you deserve to get your butt spanked.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

I have always had some mixed feelings about possession limits and some of the points here do bring up some other questions that very few people think of too. First of all, it is a little harsh to ask hunters to travel long distances and spend a good deal of money to help support the game department and local economy, then tell them that they have to go home since they harvested a couple day's bag. Yet, it is legal to feed the meet to your dog?! Of course, I feel it harsh to give the same treatment to those who live right where they hunt also. Second, most of us do like to enjoy a little bird meat during the off season. 
The point of being over the possession after early goose is a very good one. It also brings up the issue of species identification. How do you show that the jerky (or sausage, or burger) is even what it is claimed to be? A bag of goose jerky is indeed transported game when you carry it with you while hunting. Not sure I want to gnaw on a wing. Most of this is likely irrelevant, but it does set up a "gotcha!" system that makes people less trusting of the game departments. If a freezer is checked, how does one prove which burger/sausage/jerky is snow goose and not canada goose? What about blended products? One of my favorite Hamburger Helper meals is to grind a variety of upland birds up for an upland mix. It is very good. I have no clue what I would say as to the identity and number of each bird if checked a month after grinding a batch.
I will say that the only guy I knew to get busted for a freezer full of ducks in my area was a notorious violator of wildlife laws, one who had lost his privileges many times. He was a Jeff Foiles type all the way. I do agree that this is the primary intent of possession limits, but I have met a rare few officials who might just push it pretty far on a bad day. I do back the sentiment mentioned in an earlier post that it should not matter as long as the game is being eaten. I just wish the law was written that way. It would put many folks at ease. I know that a great many hunters fall in this category. Yes, I do eat a lot of game! Helps cut the grocery bill and that helps pay for the gas to go again. At least that is a win-win situation!


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## dsm16428 (Feb 19, 2009)

OBSESSED said:


> thanks for all the feed back,* i was unaware family members w/o a license can have a limit *also but it makes sense to me now. Either way if I dont start shooting better I dont think ill have to worry much!


It's a matter of GIFTING birds. That is where the stupid grey area is. I have seen guys post that they are positive that even once you have processed the meat it still goes towards your posession limit. Well...how about when you gift or donate meat? Are you supposed to check with the co-worker on a daily basis that you gave the 3 pound goose summer sausauge stick to to see if he's eaten all of it yet before you can legally go hunt again? C'mon...that is rediculous and unreaonable at best to expect that. When you donate meat, it reduces your posession limt as it is now going to a private citizen for their consumption...same as gifting meat imo. How do you have clue one what they do with the meat after you have given it away and how on earth are you expected to "track" it once it's out of your posession??!! Too much room for interperetaion from the "internet wardens and lawyers" if you ask me. I have seen numerous posts on the web the last couple of weeks of guys shooting large limits on multiple occasions and you simply cannot tell me that they are staying in posession limit without gifting or donating at least a good portion of the meat to other private citizens.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

dsm16428 said:


> OBSESSED said:
> 
> 
> > thanks for all the feed back,* i was unaware family members w/o a license can have a limit *also but it makes sense to me now. Either way if I dont start shooting better I dont think ill have to worry much!
> ...


You seem to be a bit confused on the law. Simply put the law says possession ends when you gift the bird. When and how they consume it is NO LONGER YOUR CONCERN IN REGARDS TO POSSESSION!

The key to this is simple, the law is the law and is Federal as well. SO compliance is a good idea. Most of the issues we see arise with game checks be it roadside or at lodging sites when hunters are away from home. The intent of the was to restrict market hunters and really other than snow geese has never been changed. While market hunting as it was once is no longer an issue, market hunting of another type has grown. On this site alone if you do a search you will find numerous cases of G&O who have for the money disregarded laws as have the clients that employed them.

So while Joe Hunter traveling to ND from WI as an example plans on hunting 5 days and gets into a lot of birds,has to consume or remove from his possession under the current laws if he wants to shoot more than a two day limit while here. Same goes for someone like myself if I where to travel to AR or MI.

I have friends that come up and spend 10 days in ND. They hunt a good portion of the time, but they stay within the law. Like one of them said, they eat a lot of birds in a variety of ways. However they do not come up with the goal of hunting and limiting out every single day they are here. They have been checked almost every year they are here more than once and most times not in the field but at the hotel where they stay. Never a single time have they had any issues with the Fed wardens. Only time they had any concern was when one of them had a young dog that always seem to grab birds from around others in the hunting party's field blind and bring them back to his kennel while afield.

Friend did not realize this was happening and had 8 ducks around the blind. Warden pointed out what was happening and could under the law have written a ticket, but had watched us for better than 2 hours and commented that he was surprised as well as pleased that it was clear everyone knew what they should have for a limit since we where not party hunting and shooting at birds once we had limited out.

So like it or not it is as I said before the Fed law. Like many laws it may seem unfair but the purpose of the law remains the same today as it did back when the Feds set up the rules.


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## dsm16428 (Feb 19, 2009)

Ron Gilmore said:


> dsm16428 said:
> 
> 
> > OBSESSED said:
> ...


No, I am not confused on the law. I know that posession ends when you either consume or give away your birds. My point was that there are too many people that DO NOT know, but still choose to give there pearls of wisdom without ever actually knowing what they were talking about. I made a point to KNOW this reg when we started to get trully serious about goose hunting and the limits were going up. 4 years ago we put a real hurting on the resident population here...at least we did our fair share of putting them on the ground and the ONLY way we were able to stay legal wa to process and gift our birds as quickly as we could. The four of us hunted 18 days of the PA early season and sometimes we had as many as 7 guys in the set and we limited every single day we hunted but maybe a couple days. Luckilly we had 2 good grinders and acces to a professional grade stuffer and smoker... Given the choice I honestly don't think I would ever want to do that again though.


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## jpallen14 (Nov 28, 2005)

If I'm staying in a hotel and make the ducks/geese into jerky is it legal to transport them to give to famers?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Only time they had any concern was when one of them had a young dog that always seem to grab birds from around others in the hunting party's field blind and bring them back to his kennel while afield.
> 
> Friend did not realize this was happening and had 8 ducks around the blind. Warden pointed out what was happening and could under the law have written a ticket, but had watched us for better than 2 hours and commented that he was surprised as well as pleased that it was clear everyone knew what they should have for a limit since we where not party hunting and shooting at birds once we had limited out.


Ron....

Not to cloud up the subject. But this is also not correct on what the Warden told you or your friends. Possession does not take place until you leave the field when hunting with a group. IE: even though the guy had 8 birds around him. They are not in his possession until he leaves the field. Otherwise they can nail every guide/outfitter or every person who has the only dog in the field. Because the dog brings it back to the owner. Or how can you tell possession limits for individuals when all of the birds go back into one pile or gets placed in one blind/pit/etc. I know this because I have hunted with state wardens. They never make it a point to spread the birds around to each blind so that nobody is over the limit. I know the intent was to let you know don't "Party" hunt. Which is illegal.

Ron.... I have to also ask.....is this a Federal guy who told you this or a state? Because I had a conversation with a federal guy one time when he was being surly and trying to intimidate the group I was with. Then I caught him in some telling of half truths.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Is the possesion limit goofy like the fish possession limit where you have to have a seperate livewell for every fisherman in the boat? I was always under the impression that you can to keep the birds you shoot seperate from the ones you partner shoots.


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## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

BL- MN might be different but I believe it is the exact opposite of what you described.......no need to seperate fish b.c you can "party fish." Meaning, as long as your group is under the limit you are okay. With waterfowling, there is no "party hunting," every person must adhere to their personal limit. Meaning, even if I have 10 guys hunting with me, I can only shoot my limit of birds. Maybe I am reading it wrong?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Goose..... you are correct. I asked the above person in my story of the guy giving 1/2 truths a question. If 4 guys are hunting in a field and a group of 4 geese come into the spread..... 12 shots ring out and all 4 birds hit the ground.....who shot them?? Then if he was watching this same field and this happened 3 times. So a total of 12 geese are dead. If two guys take 5 and two takes 1 (lets say 5 is the possession/daily limit)....Are these guys in the wrong? Or how can the DNR tell if who shot all of those 5 or how can he say he didn't and was "party hunting". The reason why I asked him this was because he was so arrogant and told me he could tell who shoots each bird when he observes. He told me it is the guy who goes and picks up the birds. Then I brought up about the dog and outfitters. Like I said before this guy was really arrogant and wanted to throw his weight around and try to intimidate. He is the type of wardens that give all the others a bad name.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Chuck you zre requied to be able to identify what you have shot. This is not new nor can simply pile all the birds up in one bunch. We are pretty lucky in regards to the relaxed attitude iurstate and local wardens have in regards to enforcement. The issue reallyis about shooting after someone has reached a limit. This is why you have to seperate yourtake in the field.

Last fall we gotchecked and i was short my non mallard Doug needed amallard. Two drakes came and he took the shot. Well before the dog was back the warden cameout of the corn. We had them seperated and that was the end of it. While watching he did not see me get mybird from Doug. He was sure Doug was over on mallards but he was not. Simple keeping your birds seperate that the law requiers makes life a lot better!


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

ND also prohibits party hunting pheasants. Something to consider in that neighboring states have more liberal partying hunting rules on upland game.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ron..... the law does not require you to keep birds separate. They require that you don't party hunt and everyone shoots their own limit. I totally understand what you are say and when you take turns shooting birds....ie every other shot. It is easy to tell who got them and who didn't.... I get it.....but try this example........You are hunting with 5 other guys (6 total) and your group is shooting at 5 birds in the pocket and everyone unloads all birds hit the ground.... Can you tell me honestly how many of those birds you shot? Did you get 1, 2, or 3 of those birds?? Now I know that you can tell if you are on or off. Trust me I have hunted enough to know. But what if the guy next to you is shooting at the same bird and you both hit it??? Who's bird is it?? That is my point....and the point I was making to the federal warden who told me he could tell which guy shoots every bird.

Also possession does not take place until you leave the field or the spot where the animal was taken. So until you start your walk back to your truck you don't have to have birds divided up. You should ask a warden next time you run into them about this....because that is what the law states:

*Field Possession Limit - No person shall possess, have in custody, or transport more than the daily bag limit or aggregate daily bag limit, whichever applies, of migratory game birds, tagged or not tagged, at or between the place where taken and either (a) his automobile or principal means of land transportation; or (b) his personal abode or temporary or transient place of lodging; or (c) a migratory bird preservation facility; or (d) a post office; or (e) a common carrier facility.* 
http://gf.nd.gov/regulations-hunting-fi ... de#summary

I also understand that party hunting is illegal. Which means in my example of 6 guys hunting. One guy can't hammer 12 mallards and then you spread them out in the group. IE....if the birds are only coming in on one side of the spread. If that happens the people on that end better do a switch with the other guys after awhile and not shoot. But if the birds are coming right into the pocket and everyone is having good shooting at decoying birds....then it is a crap shoot on who got the birds. Because observing from 100 yards away and you count 12-18 shots and you see 6 birds hit the ground....you can't tell who got them unless all the birds fall on one side of the spread. Trust me I have been with wardens on ride-a-longs and have been with them as they watched duck hunters.

Wardens are law enforcement. They are trained in trying to trip up or have people admit guilt it makes convictions easier. In your example you guys were with in the law and maybe the warden miscounted or he was trying to trip you guys up on something. And you rebutted his question/concern by saying....those 4 are mine and those 3 plus the one the dog is bringing back is his. Done deal....case closed.

When people ask about possession limits some might be trying to skirt the laws or work the grey area's (especially NR's.... I am one so don't think I am picking on them). Just shot your 12 ducks. Eat some and stay with in those limits even when part of that limit is in the crock pot. Don't hunt until you eat them!! Don't try to gift, mail back, process, etc. Because we all know that in the first two days of a 7 day trip with good hunts you could be done with the possession limit. Take a day off.....drink some beer, go scout for the next day while the birds are in the crock pot, relax, go fishing, go sight seeing, meet new people,target geese, etc..... Remember you are on vacation and relax...because a bad day out hunting is better than any good day at work.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

We have been watched (knowingly anyways) at least 3 times in the past 20 years. The two of the three times the warden came into our field convinced that dead birds lay hidden. Apparently these two wardens failed addition back in grade school or need a better vision plan through their employer. :wink:

Spending a morning watching one group of hunters for a possible "one-over" is the best use of their time ?


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## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

We had one of those stinken' federal badges harassing us two years ago and he needed the state warden to "remind" him that the central flyway had went to 2 pintails....I think he was a little embarrassed.


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