# non/resident hunting bill



## deadduck6

hello to all,
can someone please give me some info on a non/res. bill
involving tagging ducks.how is this bill going to work if it passes?

thanks,craig


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## Bob Kellam

The bill has been pulled from consideration


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## Sasha and Abby

Bob Kellam said:


> The bill has been pulled from consideration


What a surprise... :roll: :eyeroll: It is all about the money - to hell with the resource. :******:


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## KEN W

Sasha and Abby said:


> Bob Kellam said:
> 
> 
> 
> The bill has been pulled from consideration
> 
> 
> 
> What a surprise... :roll: :eyeroll: It is all about the money - to hell with the resource. :ticked:
Click to expand...

Your right....fiscal note attached said non-res. numbers would drop 8,000 which would mean $800,000 loss each year to GNF,with $150,000 increase in resident fees......loss of $650,000

Plus another $75,000 to make and mail out the booklets.


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## deadduck6

thanks guys......


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## Triple B

KEN W said:


> Sasha and Abby said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Kellam said:
> 
> 
> 
> The bill has been pulled from consideration
> 
> 
> 
> What a surprise... :roll: :eyeroll: It is all about the money - to hell with the resource. :ticked:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your right....fiscal note attached said non-res. numbers would drop 8,000 which would mean $800,000 loss each year to GNF,with $150,000 increase in resident fees......loss of $650,000
> 
> Plus another $75,000 to make and mail out the booklets.
Click to expand...

I know I'll get hammered for this but what the hell. why don't they cut NR liscense sales in half and double the price of them? you can't tell me they wouldn't get bought! hammer away NR's


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## RRisvold

Go take a nap.


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## hunterboy

I'll second that motion!


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## proagr465

I agree with Triple B


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## AdamFisk

I also think that is a pretty good idea Triple B.


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## averyghg

thats not a good idea at all!!! It's a GREAT idea!!!! :bowdown:


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## Chuck Smith

Triple B.....

Not that bad of an idea....but if you double the price you will be playing into the "only the rich can hunt" problem that is facing our hunting heritage. This could make more people lease land or use guides. Because some people will have the mentality of if I am paying $200 for a license I better have a place to hunt with out competition.

This is just my $.02

Edit: One other thing to look at is you would loose money for the PLOTS program. Cut the license in half you loose 1/2 of the NR portion of PLOTS...about $120,000 a year.

Also with the president pushing for renewable fuels you will see CRP start to be taken out of production. So losing PLOTS money could loose CRP acreage which will inturn lose habitat for ducks and pheasants.

Again....something to think about.


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## AdamFisk

Chuck, as far as the rich can only hunt, you are right, we are slowly making our way to that point; and it sucks. But we should be more concerned about ND residents, and their hunting opportunites, instead of worrying about how many NR's can afford to come here, shouldn't we? Otherwise, I may not be a ND resident the rest of my life.

Reducing the NR numbers by 50% may seem a little dramtic, but there would also be a lot less competition. Maybe people would slowly get that idea of having to buy/lease land out of their head. Obviously, people are buying land because they are sick of competing with 6 other parties within 2 sq. miles.

Also, I would be willing to pay more on my license to make up the lost PLOTS money.


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## Chuck Smith

Adam.....

You are right it might be less competition.....but as a NR you can compete with R hunters. SO to make sure a nr doesn't have an issue with competition....they need to own land and post it or tie up land with a lease or use a guide.

ALso adam I have always been infavor of a slight increase in NR license fees. But that money should go directly into a PLOTS type program or Enforcement.

Example I have used before.....you raise anyone over the age of 18 license $15 that would mean about 3/4 of the license sold would increase $15 about 15,000 that would equal about $225,000 going towards a Plots type program or enforcement. The $15 increase would not break anyones pocket book.

Edit: I agree that residents should come first. But don't they with the R only week and PLOTS only week.


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## averyghg

People don't realize that a lot of residents only stay in this state because of the hunting and their hunting memories as youngsters. They want to give their children the same opportunities they had to have great hunts. It's gonna get to the point where NR take over the state and hunting will diminish for all.

If that happens (like its on the way to) i know im not gonna live in this state anymore and i know a lot of people will feel the same way. Im gonna take my family to a place that's not overloaded or has a respectable cap. Then the state of ND can rely on their 2 week NR's to support their city instead of the 50 year and counting residents. It's just ridiculous, if you love hunting so much where you don't care how it affects others and their family's future of hunting then you're not a very moral hunter. And if you don't like the hunting where you live, make the sacrafice like most of us and move here.


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## Chuck Smith

I have a question........

How many birds does a R need to shoot in a year to have a good year?

Before everyone starts to tell me it is not the number you kill or anything like that read the following.....

Did you get to experience the site of ducks coming into the spread a couple of times this year?

Did you get the chance to go out with your friends and family and have a good time a couple of times this year?

Did you get geese to commit to the decoys couple of times this year?

Did you get to make any memories of shooting a limit of ducks and geese a couple of times this year?

Did you get to experience putting out the decoys a couple of times this year?

Did you get the chance to give your fellow hunters some crap this 
year for missing an easy shot a couple of times year?

Again if you can answer yes to all of these questions.....You had a good year and WHY CAP NR HUNTERS if it is not about the Kill.


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## Madison

Chuck Smith said:


> Edit: One other thing to look at is you would loose money for the PLOTS program. Cut the license in half you loose 1/2 of the NR portion of PLOTS...about $120,000 a year.
> 
> .


So what.. Charge the residents extra, I have no problem with at all.... ND has a large surplus I'm sure we can find the money somewhere..You cant blame residents for wanting tighter restrictions.. Why dont you go over to South Dakota and tell them how you dont like there NR restrictions??

Keep it reel Triple B!!


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## averyghg

well some people have jobs, some people have school, and like myself some people have jobs and school. This year (unlike most) I only got to go out a few times and they weren't anything to brag about.

This is what really ticks me off....... One of the times i went, me and one of my best friends took out his little brother. After taking him out scouting and teaching him the ropes we found an awesome field loaded with geese to set up in. Of course he got all excited and barely slept. Right as we finished setting up dekes a truck role into the field at 6:00 heading straight for the huge slough all the birds were roosting on. And ofcourse like dumba$$e$ they shine their lights right on the slough and start setting up dekes right behind the cattails in the field. What do u think happened??? hmm......all the birds took off maybe, and ofcuorse never came back. Now how do you explain to a first time hunter that something like that never usually happens? You can't because it does happen more often than not.

And im not just refering to roost busting, im refering to many things like havin em set up in the same field between you and the roost when you've been there since 5:00am and they role up at 7:00. It's always the NR's too, they think they only have 2 weeks they want their money's worth!!!


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## averyghg

CHUCK:
and by the way, it is about the kill for 95% of hunters and thats a fact, if you put all the time and money into hunting like most you would like to shoot a bird or two.

U can't tell me that u would be happy spending a couple thousand a year and shooting 2 ducks between 5 hunts


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## Chuck Smith

Averyghg:

I know it is more to the hunt than the kill.....but

Did you only shoot 2 ducks/geese this year?


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## AdamFisk

Before this blows up, Avery you know that R and NR alike do them things. That is just the way it is when you have fierce competition for the few birds in a given area(this is where the cap would come in to play).

Chuck, I would consider last year a good year......but it was the worst year of waterfowling I have ever had(if that makes sense), for reasons I am not even going to go into.

All I got to say is I hope we get lots and lots of snow. Then maybe us hunters won't be as congested as last year.

Adam


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## averyghg

so what if we do what triple B said, but also increase the resident license by 10-15 dollars, i would willing to pay the extra and it should take care of any money thats lost


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## USSapper

Chuck, in one of your first post, you said if the license fee was doubled,it would cut the number of NR in half, like adam said, this is a harsh figure. Later you said 15 dollars extra for a resident wouldnt be a pocket breaker. THis would be the same for a NR, just a little more-an extra hundered dollars one time a year is not going to make or break someone.

I my opinion, which really doesnt matter, there should be a much lower cap and higher fees. Just my opinion and everyone has theres


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## proagr465

I don't know what other NR hunters do, but with our hunting party it is not about the kill at all! We shot birds the first couple of days and got it out of our system. The rest of the time the birds would decoy and we might take select shots here and there but never shot at a huge flock of birds. We spent our money in the towns and really just enjoyed ourselves and enjoyed the show of the decoying birds along with it. Made a lot of good friends over the years with ND residents and they were glad to have us knowing that we hunted the way we did. We even took some residents hunting several times with us and they loved it. To me if every NR were to treat ND like it was a privelege, not a right, to be there then how could that be bad for the state or it's residents.


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## Triple B

averyghg said:


> CHUCK:
> and by the way, it is about the kill for 95% of hunters and thats a fact, if you put all the time and money into hunting like most you would like to shoot a bird or two.
> 
> U can't tell me that u would be happy spending a couple thousand a year and shooting 2 ducks between 5 hunts


 :sniper:

couple thousand??? i've spent over $5000 on gas alone this year for hunting, now if any NR can tell me they topped that in gas in ND alone, well then we can talk about "supporting" ND's economy! This country is falling into the hands of capitalists more everyday, and its getting terrible in ND, 5 years ago, we'd be hard pressed to find another hunting party around where we hunt, now we have to get out by 4 am to get the field, and it usually ends when NR comes at 7 and sets 40 yds away! what would the problem be with raising fees for lisences??? if NR's spend the money as it is to come here then they must not be hurting too much? whats another 100-200 dollars??? Its a limiting factor that may seperate the truly serious and nonslob hunters. I am by no means in the money, and I make many sacrifices to hunt as frequently as I do, why can't they??


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## Triple B

averyghg said:


> so what if we do what triple B said, but also increase the resident license by 10-15 dollars, i would willing to pay the extra and it should take care of any money thats lost


Hell i'd pay 100 more a year!!


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## hunter9494

what you will find is the NR slob hunters, for the most part, have a ton of money and don't care. the guys that enjoy the sport and follow the rules usually have to save and work hard to afford a trip once a year to ND. they appreciate the experience and for the most part don't have well lined pockets to pay an outfitter or guide to hunt.


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## Goldy's Pal

I really don't care what North dakota does with their fees because I don't live there and have meaningless input. If a NR called me and complained about our deer hunting regs/fees whatever, I would have no sympathy. Personally if ND jacked up the license (doubled) I'd stay here for the waterfowl season. Has nothing to do with being "hard core" or not being, (not sure what that means exactly) but because hunting there the last few years was OK but not great, and our hunting here has improved dramatically. Had a good time in Nodak, always do, but I'd be giving in to something that I don't believe in, cutting off the middle class working Dad to take the kids on a duck hunting trip. Alone expenses can be do-able, but start to figure kids in and the time out there isn't that much greater than just hunting with kids or alone at home for little to nothing. It's not exactly an exotic specie that I'm hunting in ND. To some, where their hunting is a total pain in the a$$ every weekend, I guess I could see paying for that quality hunt to a degree but everyone has that line to draw somewhere. I'm for the permanent residence benefit as much as possible.

Peace.


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## averyghg

Okay.....If its not about the kill then why do come to north dakota, you can shoot ducks in pretty much any state in the U.S. and im sure get atleast a few at that? why would you come here to hunt if its not about the kill? Would you still come to ND to hunt if u knew you would get 2 ducks everytime u went out??? ofcourse its about the kill


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## Goldy's Pal

averyghg said:


> Okay.....If its not about the kill then why do come to north dakota, you can shoot ducks in pretty much any state in the U.S. and im sure get atleast a few at that? why would you come here to hunt if its not about the kill? Would you still come to ND to hunt if u knew you would get 2 ducks everytime u went out??? ofcourse its about the kill


Boy this has true love for the outdoors written all over it. :lol:


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## Triple B

averyghg said:


> Okay.....If its not about the kill then why do come to north dakota, you can shoot ducks in pretty much any state in the U.S. and im sure get atleast a few at that? why would you come here to hunt if its not about the kill? Would you still come to ND to hunt if u knew you would get 2 ducks everytime u went out??? ofcourse its about the kill


I think he means this is true for people who come here to hunt waterfowl,makes sense to me that way. if its not about putting birds on the ground then why is ND such a great destination??? theres plenty of places to "bird watch" elsewhere.


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## Goldy's Pal

It might be for the kill for some who go to ND to get it out of their system for their first time and yes for some who maybe never get it out of their system and have to shoot shoot shoot, but that's not how everyone is. What percentage are? No idea. I can't eat duck everyday for a week and we don't gift birds, so it is a pick one from the flock kind of hunt for us and that's totally fine, I think it makes me somewhat sharper and slightly more educated in the long run. 



> if its not about putting birds on the ground then why is ND such a great destination??? theres plenty of places to "bird watch" elsewhere.


I think those who feel it's about "birds on the ground" (all the time) are part of the problem wherever you're from, NR or not. Sure I like a good hunt, but......... 
There are reasons why I like to head out there and hunt ducks and most of the reasons have nothing to do with pulling the trigger. BS'ing with the locals, life in a small town for a week, sitting in a field blind, (which I can't do here), spending some time with the old man, watching him choke on a close shot, him watching me choke on a closer shot. It's just a different place and if you live there you know that anyway, and hopefully appreciate it. Like I said it's a do-able trip and it's nice to see and do some things I can't always do here but at the same time I don't think it would be worth a huge increase in cost (to me). The hunting has gone down hill since our first trip 5 years ago but it's still ok.


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## jhegg

Goldy's Pal,

"Had a good time in Nodak, always do, but I'd be giving in to something that I don't believe in, cutting off the middle class working Dad to take the kids on a duck hunting trip. Alone expenses can be do-able, but start to figure kids in and the time out there isn't that much greater than just hunting with kids or alone at home for little to nothing."

Not really an issue. The following is from the ND Game & Fish Department website concerning non-resident waterfowl hunting:

"Nonresident youth hunting licenses. A nonresident under age sixteen need only purchase a North Dakota resident fishing, hunting and furbearer certificate and a North Dakota resident general game and habitat license to hunt small game and waterfowl except swans and wild turkeys; provided, that the nonresident's state, or province or territory of Canada, of residence provides a reciprocal licensing agreement for North Dakota residents who are also under age sixteen. (Currently states of Colorado, Connecticut, Idaho, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Mississippi, Nebraska, New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, and Wisconsin qualify.) To be eligible, a nonresident youth may not have turned sixteen before September first of the year for which the license is issued and must possess a certificate of completion for a certified hunter education course. The nonresident youth may only hunt under the supervision of an adult family member or legal guardian who is licensed to hunt small game or waterfowl in this state and is subject to the same regulations as the adult family member or legal guardian."

Jim


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## Goldy's Pal

Goldy's pal wrote:


> Alone expenses can be do-able, but start to figure kids in and the time out there isn't that much greater than just hunting with kids or alone at home for little to nothing."


Jhegg, To clarify, the expense for myself to hunt at the current cost is affordable, not a problem at all, $140.00.(zone buster) Now double that cost which is being dragged around here and I'm at $280.00 for license for me alone to hunt ducks for 7 days. Yes I know I can hunt 14 and if I don't, I know, that's my problem. Well it doesn't work that way, see I have only so much vacation to go around just like everyone else and can really only eat so much duck, and the cost of the motel is around $50.00 per night for 8 nights, $400.00. I'm now at $680.00 and haven't had a meal or touched my gas tank yet and still have to drive 9 hours to get to your fine state. I'm not trying to be a total a$$ here but it's pretty obvious I'm paying a minimum of $100.00 per day to freelance ducks. I can actually afford it but I have to just shake my head here on the proposed great idea of doubling the cost of a NR license because some people have it set in their head that it's hammer away time on the plumage once I roll in. Hardly the case. The kid thing just adds to it, not an issue like you said, ten bucks here and there not a problem and if they had a once in a lifetime experience it is for sure worth every penny, but for me the difference between hunting here and hunting there with kids or not isn't necessarily worth around $100.00 per day gas/meals not included. It's an expensive sport, and have never once complained about the cost of a stamp, license, anything here or there, all part of the game and if you wanna dance you gotta pay the band. It's more of a is it worth it if hunting is good where I live cost comparison issue and a little taking a stand I guess at the same time.


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## jhegg

Goldy's Pal,

Well, I guess you will just have to stay at my house the first night here and we will see what happens after that. If you are hunting within 100 miles of Fargo, your lodging is always free at my house - plus you may get the pleasure of my company hunting (OK - then the lodging may not be exactly free). Your choice.

Jim

ps: I am a fairly good cook.


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## deadduck6

i really didnt want to start a pissing contest between the res. and non/res,
i just wanted to know about the bill.
the fact is ,it is what it is,as long as nodak has ducks your going to have non/res hunters.ive going to n.d. for 5 yrs now,i obey the law ,pay the 
dues and go on about my business.i dont trespass or run in on other people,there is so much water out there that i dont see how or why you would want to.if they want to raise the fees for non/res. i really dont care ,im still going to hunt in n.d. its just like when gas prices went way up.......you just save alittle more and go,theres nothing you or i can do about it.now dont get me wrong im not rich,i have to save alittle here and there to go but thats life.i deal with it.
we are all hunters here ......shouldnt we be complaining about the people taking our hunting rights away,instead of complaining about each other.

craig


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## larsole

This is great to hear the bill was pulled from consideration.
Non residents pay big bucks to hunt ducks in ND and they pay federal stamp fees to hunt the ducks that fly through ND from Canada. That's $13.50 a duck.......don't think that works well with NR hunters.


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## always_outdoors

Wow! I just checked SD outdoor forums such as this and I couldn't find any of the usernames found on this post that don't want more restrictions???

larsole: Do you post your opposition to SD restrictions since they are much more restrictive than ND? Those same ducks go through SD as well.

Here is another question for you. How do we now deal with the environmental adaptation that is now occurring here in ND with our ducks? Research is now showing that ducks are staging longer in Canada, flying through ND quicker, and staging longer in SD.

Can you honestly say that this adaptation isn't being linked to pressure on the resource??

If you are guys (who are most likely from MN or Wisconsin) are true hunters, you would support restrictions so that when you come out here 10 years from now whether with family or friends, you would know that the right steps were taken to insure that ducks were managed correctly and you had a good hunt.

If you are reading this thinking "I want to come here and shoot my ducks when I want and how I want" then you are truely not a hunter. Nothing more than just killing then. It is also about conservation and ethics.


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## Triple B

live2hunt said:


> Wow! I just checked SD outdoor forums such as this and I couldn't find any of the usernames found on this post that don't want more restrictions???
> 
> larsole: Do you post your opposition to SD restrictions since they are much more restrictive than ND? Those same ducks go through SD as well.
> 
> Here is another question for you. How do we now deal with the environmental adaptation that is now occurring here in ND with our ducks? Research is now showing that ducks are staging longer in Canada, flying through ND quicker, and staging longer in SD.
> 
> Can you honestly say that this adaptation isn't being linked to pressure on the resource??
> 
> If you are guys (who are most likely from MN or Wisconsin) are true hunters, you would support restrictions so that when you come out here 10 years from now whether with family or friends, you would know that the right steps were taken to insure that ducks were managed correctly and you had a good hunt.
> 
> If you are reading this thinking "I want to come here and shoot my ducks when I want and how I want" then you are truely not a hunter. Nothing more than just killing then. It is also about conservation and ethics.


 :thumb: bingo!


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## Triple B

for some reason I feel that NR's believe they can "boss" our little state around. why aren't these concerns and issues brought up towards other states in the central flyway, surely we are not the only state which has excellent hunting! its because hunters have learned to accept others states regulations, why are there not as many people whining about SD's restrictions??? nebraska?? what gives? maybe its because we are the last state with open hunting regulations? maybe its because we have bossy neighbors to our east, what is the deal anyways? why don't we hear anyone complaing to the canadain officials? maybe ND is an easier target to pick on?


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## slipstream

From what I have observed, the bond of sportsmen and conservation minded folks usually supersedes political (read: state) boundaries. I expect that most ND sportsmen do not detest NR hunters and most NR hunters respect NF folks and local regulations. If I observe an out-of-stater breaking fishing laws in MN I do not assume that all do. I also know there are locals with less respect for laws and others than many out-of-staters. I expect the true would be the same for ND. I've had plenty of college friends from ND that can tell stories about ND folks without much respect for laws, others, or conservation for that matter.

Generally speaking, I'd say that true sportsmen can and should get along with other true sportsman and the true sportsman will always struggle with relationships with scoflaws, regardless of political boundaries.


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## hunter9494

i can tell you one thing for sure, as restrictive as SD is on waterfowl and upland hunting, they sure won't get my NR dollars. i will gladly spend that money in ND, where i at least feel welcome and it is not ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!


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## Triple B

hunter9494 said:


> i can tell you one thing for sure, as restrictive as SD is on waterfowl and upland hunting, they sure won't get my NR dollars. i will gladly spend that money in ND, where i at least feel welcome and it is not ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!


hunter. i'm struggling to see your point here, if it was about money in SD, why would they have such a harsh NR cap, i think you are mistaken, it is about the money in ND, where many of our legislators and game and fish office's care about is total lisence sales. it was said earlier in this forum about how birds are getting smarter by piling up in canada right on the other side of the border and flying right through to SD. within 10 years if something isn't done, it'll be a whole lot worse than it is now. NR's don't see what we see all season, they only see what is there for a couple weeks, we see it first hand all season. birds being constantly pressured by crew after crew. i remember an earlier post this year stating as they were driving back to after hunting they noticed a changing of the guards if you will, hunters coming in while others left, its this constant pressure on the birds that is forcing them to get wise, in my opinion its a suprise they even hit the ground at all in ND.


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## shiawassee_kid

Triple B said:


> it was said earlier in this forum about how birds are getting smarter by piling up in canada right on the other side of the border and flying right through to SD. within 10 years if something isn't done, it'll be a whole lot worse than it is now.


bah, gimme a break.

bottom line is, when theres lots of water in nd, the problem is less.....when there is less water in nd, the problem is worse. If they want to base a cap on yearly hunters dependent on total wetlands available every year...that would make some sense.

I hate seeing these topics, it just pitches sportsman vs. sportsman and creates a huge headache across the board....for NR and R's.


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## Timber2005

Can't believe they haven't locked this one yet. Back a few posts somebody mentioned about the ducks stay in Canada longer and pushing through ND quicker. My thoughts on this are strictly tied to the water levels at this time, ND has been dry the last 3 years and I think that has the biggest impact.

Anyway just hoping this issue gets dropped soon!!!!!!!!!


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## always_outdoors

> Back a few posts somebody mentioned about the ducks stay in Canada longer and pushing through ND quicker. My thoughts on this are strictly tied to the water levels at this time, ND has been dry the last 3 years and I think that has the biggest impact.


That was me. Why don't you chat with the biologists then if you don't believe what I am saying.

Dan Bueide (sp?) posted the maps once before that showed the amount of hunting pressure this state is seeing and what other states/providences see.

SD's weather pattern is and has been just as dry as ND has been in the last 3 yrs, so how come the ducks stay there so much longer than before?

Why is it that reports from down south indicate the ducks are sitting in SD when years past they were already down south? Under your theory the ducks should not be staying in SD either because like ND, it has been dry for the past 3 years.

Once again I ask the question. How come I don't see more of you posting on SD outdoor websites complaining about the fact that only 7000 NR's get to hunt in that state?

There is no need to lock it. We are just having a civilized conversation. As long as people don't reject to name calling there is no reason why this post should be locked/moved.


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## roostbuster

so let me get this straight, back when there were 50,000 resident hunters and 5,000 non-res, there was significantly less pressure, so much more today that birds are just simply flying over north dakota, than compared to 25,000 residents and 25,000 non-res roughly of today?

so does that just mean that residents used to to buy licenses but never hunt?


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## Old Hunter

roostbuster you are correct Many of the resident hunters of the past were the type that hunted one may be two weekends a year. They were high in numbers but put little pressure on the birds. The nonresidents that have taken their place in the numbers game are serious hunters that hunt hard. The difference in pressure is huge.


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## hunter9494

if you guys think hunting ducks in ND is tough, try calling/decoying and shooting them in Oklahoma or Texas, after they "fly the gauntlet" from Canada to Texas. you have no idea how decoy shy and tough these wise birds are by the time they get that far south. enjoy what you have, it is far, far better than you think!


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## larsole

I have a question for the hunters who post pictures of Swans. Do you eat these birds? What is the purpose of shooting them if you don't eat them.
Just wandering?


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## Triple B

of course we eat swan, its actually pretty good, its a little more oily than other waterfowl. i find the best way to eat it is to make it into jerky.


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## Triple B

shiawassee_kid said:


> Triple B said:
> 
> 
> 
> it was said earlier in this forum about how birds are getting smarter by piling up in canada right on the other side of the border and flying right through to SD. within 10 years if something isn't done, it'll be a whole lot worse than it is now.
> 
> 
> 
> bah, gimme a break.
> 
> bottom line is, when theres lots of water in nd, the problem is less.....when there is less water in nd, the problem is worse. If they want to base a cap on yearly hunters dependent on total wetlands available every year...that would make some sense.
> 
> I hate seeing these topics, it just pitches sportsman vs. sportsman and creates a huge headache across the board....for NR and R's.
Click to expand...

you see this is the attitude and point i'm trying to make, its pretty easy to draw your ouwn uneducated conclusions when you are what 500-1000 miles away. we see things happening in our own backyard everyday, but for some reason we have no idea what we are talking about. the snow geese have been for the last 5 years or so been stacking up along the US canada border, they get very little pressure there. if you don't believe me take a drive along the border some afternoon next fall, you'll see my point. as for water levels, I believe that it may have something to do with it, but for the most part it is pressure. everyone has seen that golden field or slough with tons of birds, but when you ask to hunt it the farmer states he lets no one hunt, now why do u think there is a crap ton of birds on there land??? hmmm


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## shiawassee_kid

Triple B said:


> you see this is the attitude and point i'm trying to make, its pretty easy to draw your ouwn uneducated conclusions when you are what 500-1000 miles away. we see things happening in our own backyard everyday, but for some reason we have no idea what we are talking about. the snow geese have been for the last 5 years or so been stacking up along the US canada border, they get very little pressure there. if you don't believe me take a drive along the border some afternoon next fall, you'll see my point. as for water levels, I believe that it may have something to do with it, but for the most part it is pressure. everyone has seen that golden field or slough with tons of birds, but when you ask to hunt it the farmer states he lets no one hunt, now why do u think there is a crap ton of birds on there land??? hmmm


birds now know borders? As a whole snow geese have been getting smarter, i will not deny that. they have been relentlessly being chased year around.

I have seen the "golden field" that the farmer didn't let people hunt....and it was full of geese.....its the same as here....geese pile up in a field down the road from me and no one can hunt it all year. I don't see your logic. what is your suggestion?....cut all NR hunters so you can have a dreamland hunt everytime you walk out your door.

I'm sorry, but i've been coming every year and barring low water which concentrated birds i've had some of the most memorably hunting in ND.

Considering that less NR licenses were sold this year and the "problem" was worse by your standards.....that tells me by your logic that NR pressure is not the problem. By my logic, low/less water was.

I really wish i could knock michigans hunting back 20 years to the way it was....but lets be realistic, its not gonna happen.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just like to see some kind of solid solution instead of a witchhunt on NR's.


----------



## always_outdoors

I don't believe this post is about witchhunting NR's and I know my comments weren't entended on witchhunting at all.

I don't have any issues with NR's coming into this state to hunt, but the amount of hunters here needs to be based on biology (pressure, habitat, bird populations) and not on dollar signs.


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## Goldy's Pal

> why are there not as many people whining about SD's restrictions??? nebraska?? what gives?


For one I'm not whining, I really don't care what you do, just not in favor of a double in my license fee. Why would I be? Isn't that kind of normal? Gee I would pay oh lets say $25.00 for a case of beer but yeah if it's $12.00 I'd rather just pay the $25.00 and you can just keep the change? :roll:



> maybe its because we are the last state with open hunting regulations?


You'll have to give me some NR regulation details on that one I guess.



> maybe its because we have bossy neighbors to our east, what is the deal anyways?


Again, not sure what you are refering to on that one. If the MN. lawsuit is what you are refering to, then yeah I agree, gee sorry about that, but I didn't do it, blame those guys in taylored suits with the brief cases in their hands, not me or anyone else from MN. in camo.



> why don't we hear anyone complaing to the canadain officials? maybe ND is an easier target to pick on?


Well I don't hunt there, or in Nebraska, or in Ark. or in Louisiana. Now if I did hunt there and there was a websight where the voice gathered and wanted to propose an increase in my license fee to determine if I was "hard core" or not I would chime in and voice my opinion. Since I don't care about the price of gas in China I don't follow it much, but if the Conoco down the road wants to go from $2.00 to $4.00 and b*tch about me on the side then I'm all in.



> birds now know borders?


Yes. They do. I Don't live there no, but seen it first hand in a week I was there, the ducks definately reacted to the pressure put on them from being bumped off of the water while we hunted a field next to it for 4 days. Lack of water didn't help either, it's a bad combination. The ducks didn't go very far but they found the safe place.

I would much rather see a cap put on NR to help cut down on pressure than to see it cost so much (as a total weeks package) it's just for the rich boys. If it's less of us NR you want then doesn't that make more sense? This isn't Elk, Moose, an African safari or Bald Eagle hunt, but if ND is where you have to go to shoot a greenhead then I guess it is.

Boy it sure would be cool to come browsing on here once and a while to BS about a good duck hunting story. :roll:


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## Triple B

live2hunt said:


> I don't believe this post is about witchhunting NR's and I know my comments weren't entended on witchhunting at all.
> 
> I don't have any issues with NR's coming into this state to hunt, but the amount of hunters here needs to be based on biology (pressure, habitat, bird populations) and not on dollar signs.


I gotta agree with this statement, my comments are too not intended to be a witchhunt towards NR's, i understand our state has a very hot commodety right now, but the point i want to make is istead of "whoring" oursleves out to any NR with a gun and a few dollars. we need to treat our resource a little kinder than we are right now. like live2hunt stated, we are basing our issues on the dollars sign and not the issues that should be addressed. at the rate ND is going we won't have to worry about these issues, we are simply going to burn it out. then when we sit back and stratch our heads and think, boy that was stupid, the rest of the NR's will have moved on to SD, nebraska, or canada because ND is no longer a "hotspot" but what the hell do I know, i'm just a blue collar ND boy.


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## mallard

Why is everyone still arguing about the same things that have been argued to death for several years now.The leg tag bill is dead...move on.


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## hunter9494

well, you guys have me convinced, guess i will cancel my trip to ND and take my money and spend it in Canada and shoot the hell outta of the waterfowl up there. afterall, it's only another 300 miles or less, so money spent in Canada rather than in the US makes sense to me, besides that's where the birds are and a few less left for ND won't matter 'cause they just over fly the state to SD anyway. if your friends own a gas station, convience store or motel, tell 'em you are sorry, but you just ran some good revenue away.


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## always_outdoors

It is posts like the one above that keep threads like this going.

Here are some questions for you 9494. How come you come to hunt ND? Is it to bank money into our economy? Is it because you can't hunt in the state you currently live in?

Let's look at that assumption. I will take MN and Wis since the majority of our NR are from there. How come you don't hunt MN? Don't tell me it is because you don't have ducks. I have seen plenty of forums for both states in which many on there are bragging about how many ducks they shot.

My hunch is because you can't access land anymore. Or because it has "become a rich man's sport". Maybe I am wrong, but I would guess those are the biggest reasons why you come here to hunt.

Many North Dakotans are realizing this change and have seen what has happened in other states. If you look at our incomes across the state in each county, you will see that money doesn't grow on trees for many of us, but we continue to live here.

So how come you NR's want to ridicule us so harshly for wanting to prevent what happened in your state??? Now throw in the biological issues facing this area (I can't believe I have to post this again) with research that shows environmental adaptation of our ducks. It is like you guys don't care. You just want a free for all over here in ND and we are the bad guys cause we want to protect what we have here.

I can't believe some of the narrowmindness that happens here from NR's. Many of us have stated that we have no issues with NR's coming into this state, but we should do so based on biology and not $$$$$$ signs.

At the current rate we are at, more and more land is being limited for YOU and for us residents. Ducks are adapting to the pressure.

So where will YOU turn when ND cannot be accessible unless you are financially wealthy or the ducks change their migration pattern?? Will you sit in your cabin over in MN or Wis and talk about the good times you had pounding on birds over in ND or will you be able to tell your grandchildren that because the right pieces were put together by ND residents you can still go over and have good hunts in ND.

I have a 5month old son right now. Rather than tell him about how good the hunting was, I would rather him be able to experience it. Or maybe we should do what the NR's and G/O's say and leave you guys alone and you can keep pounding on the birds day after day, they will continue to adapt, more land will be taken away and we will turn it into what many of the other states have turned into....."a rich man's sport".

Which one would like?? I think it time for you guys to quit ridiculing us for trying to protect what is right. Look at the big picture. I know it is hard right now because you come over and have these great hunts, but the changes (not good ones) are starting to take place.


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## roostbuster

Old Hunter said:


> roostbuster you are correct Many of the resident hunters of the past were the type that hunted one may be two weekends a year.


and non-residents are allowed to hunt how many weekends?


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## Chuck Smith

Live2hunt....

I agree with you totally.....if the state can show Biologicly that the state needs to limit hunters. But biologicly nothing has showed this trend.

Now yes birds may be passing through the state quicker. But that has to do with many factors....weather, feed, habitat, and yes pressure.

Now lets look at the two states you are talking about ND and SD:

Weather: SD is further south so it is warmer. Not much but the weather patterns are different. One way to look at this is to look MN. This state runs the length of both ND and SD. Now in Northern MN has different weather than Southern MN. When LOW starts to freeze....southern MN is still fishing in 40-50 degree weather. Different weather patterns. Just like ND and SD.

Feed/habitat. Some SD farmers plant crops for pheasants and their pheasant operations. Waterfowl eat out of these same fields. So more crop and feed on the ground. Also with habitat....ND's governer vetoed a land transaction for a non-profit group to purchase land and maintain or help habitat......I have not heard SD's governer do this.

Pressure: ND hunters R and NR can gain access to hunt land very easy. SD it is very hard for R/NR hunters to gain access with out $$$. Also on that note....SD has the pay to play for pheasants. Now that also limits the pressure on that land....so the pressure is less on ducks on that land because nobody can access it. Because these operations don't want people (R/NR) banging away at ducks to scare off the pheasants. Also ND wants to limit NR hunters....SD is trying to pass a bill to raise the number of NR license sales.

Now these are just some observations.

Also you always bring up why nobody post on the SD forums. Again SD has these laws in place already. ND does not. It is easier to stop something from happening that trying to change something that is already in place.

In MN you can have good bird hunting. But the issue why people travel to ND is because it is a vacation! I can travel to ND and do something I love.....hunt waterfowl. It is the same reason why I travel to MO every year to turkey hunt. It is a vacation. I can shoot a turkey in MN no problem and I do. But I still like to travel and hunt different places.

Also in MN the habitat is poor....very poor. Look at the polluted mississippi river. Now the core of engineers is finally trying to help it out with draw downs and what not. I used to harvest many ducks on the creeks and adjacent fields the last couple days or the last week of the season. Now I don't see the birds. I used to see thousands. Now I maybe see a few flocks. They just don't migrate or stay with in the state. This has to do with habitat and MN is trying to correct this.

Now I know I got long winded. But the majority of my post is about habitat. As long as ND has the habitat they will have birds and good hunting. That is why in most of my posts I talk about ND needs to focus on Habitat not the # of NR hunters. And NR hunters $$$ from licenses can help habitat.


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## Triple B

chuck I agree with you on this to a point, the thing that stands out is the creation of suitable habitat has and will continue to pose challenges. with the future of crp looking grim, habitat will likely take a plunge in the next decade, if this is mixed with intesnse pressure it could spell disaster for not only waterfowl, but upland birds as well. wouldn't it be easier to limit pressure depending on suitable habitat?? I also agree that the G&F needs to start studying the effects of pressure and coming up with some sort of model they can base yearly lisence sales on. I think most people would agree this year was a poor habitat year, and combineing that with the intense pressures ND recieves made for a tough year for people. I agree that more suitable habitat would help greatly, but the fact of the matter is that getting past all the challenges to obtain new land isn't getting easier.


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## always_outdoors

> if the state can show Biologicly that the state needs to limit hunters. But biologicly nothing has showed this trend.


Not true. It has been shown to legislators. But many refuse to believe it because they have dollar signs in their heads. We have also posted this infomation here. Dan Buide has posted maps and we have also posted testimony from biologists that have done aerial surveys. We have also shown what waterfowl numbers are in this state and after the first week that NR's are allowed to hunt.



> Feed/habitat. Some SD farmers plant crops for pheasants and their pheasant operations. Waterfowl eat out of these same fields. So more crop and feed on the ground.


Show me data to prove this. We have plenty of food here for our ducks. Pressure is primarily what drives them south in North Dakota. Weather has some, but a much smaller effect....hence why they stage in Canada longer. Canada is further North correct? Yet they stay longer there which tells me it isn't pressure pushing them down into ND, they are environmentally adapting to the pressure they know they get once they cross the border.



> ND hunters R and NR can gain access to hunt land very easy. SD it is very hard for R/NR hunters to gain access with out $$$.


ummm... Land access is fast becoming a very large issue here in this state. You might not think so compared to MN, but we are seeing it on a large scale. As more and more come to ND to hunt the "final frontier", $$ is taking the stage. We are trying to discourage that, yet you come on here and oppose us at almost all lengths for trying to this from happening here.



> But the issue why people travel to ND is because it is a vacation!


 Really? A vacation. So why would NR's oppose leg bands. You are just coming out for a vacation then it shouldn't matter if you shoot 4 ducks or 20 ducks. Seems to me you are all coming out here to pound on birds. When I see a rig out here with 4 ATV's, 4 boats, 2 canoes, and an enclosed trailer full of deeks, you aren't out here to soak up the sun. You are here to shoot ducks.



> Also in MN the habitat is poor....very poor. Look at the polluted mississippi river. Now the core of engineers is finally trying to help it out with draw downs and what not. I used to harvest many ducks on the creeks and adjacent fields the last couple days or the last week of the season. Now I don't see the birds. I used to see thousands. Now I maybe see a few flocks. They just don't migrate or stay with in the state. This has to do with habitat and MN is trying to correct this.


Thank you for re-iterating what I have told other MN hunters who have jumped on me about being a ND resident hunter. Is it our fault that this occurred over there? And because this occurred, should you then be able to come over here and take advantage of our resources and have the same privileges as us just because DU says we have 16 million ducks in North America??

As I stated before. We are trying to protect it so it doesn't turn into a rich man's sport. So that residents are not forced to build lease contracts like Texas. So that our kids can someday enjoy a hunt with their fathers/mothers. So that absentee landowners are not a commonplace in this state. So that privileges are awarded for those who stay here and we can teach our children not to leave the state when they graduate. So that some day we don't have to talk about what hunting was like, that we can still experience it. So that I don't have to read in a magazine the environmental influences of hunting pressure and its role in changing duck migration patterns ie...North Dakota

Is that enough?

Chuck you seem like a nice guy. I know you can see the bigger picture in all of this. I also know that if you had this resource, you would be protecting too for the same reasons I listed above. For someone who has lost so much as from your post, I would think you would see why we are doing what we are trying to do. I really wished you lived here with us.


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## averyghg

exactly!!

Take a walk in our shoes, you'd do the same damn thing. It's amazing how many errogant pricks there are out there

hunter9494
Good luck in Canada, we won't miss ya


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## roostbuster

averyghg said:


> exactly!!
> 
> Take a walk in our shoes, you'd do the same damn thing. It's amazing how many errogant pricks there are out there
> 
> hunter9494
> Good luck in Canada, we won't miss ya


HAHAHAHAHAHA oh my god. your parents must be so proud.


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## roostbuster

there are more birds holding in Canada for a longer time b/c there is good habitat and later freeze up than in the past, not b/c they are scared to come into No Dak. you are giving an animal that has a brain the size of my thumb way to much credit. Sorry, but they don't suddenly stop flying at the border, sit down and have a discussion concerning the pressure they are going to face if they cross that line.

People are saying it was a tough year this past season, could it be b/c we lost some wetlands due to last summers drought? Minnesotan's were saying this was one of the better years they've had in the past couple, why? B/c when No dak gets dry, MN will always have permanent water, drawing birds into the state. There were fewer NR's in No Dak this past season, so don't tell us that pressure was greater than ever.

I personally think you all are just greedy, and using the argument "its for the resource" as a very convenient front. As soon as the two weekend a year NR's start draining potholes and tilling nesting cover to make more cornfields, then I'll jump on your "holier than thou" band wagon.


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## Triple B

roostbuster said:


> there are more birds holding in Canada for a longer time b/c there is good habitat and later freeze up than in the past, not b/c they are scared to come into No Dak. you are giving an animal that has a brain the size of my thumb way to much credit. Sorry, but they don't suddenly stop flying at the border, sit down and have a discussion concerning the pressure they are going to face if they cross that line.
> 
> People are saying it was a tough year this past season, could it be b/c we lost some wetlands due to last summers drought? Minnesotan's were saying this was one of the better years they've had in the past couple, why? B/c when No dak gets dry, MN will always have permanent water, drawing birds into the state. There were fewer NR's in No Dak this past season, so don't tell us that pressure was greater than ever.
> 
> I personally think you all are just greedy, and using the argument "its for the resource" as a very convenient front. As soon as the two weekend a year NR's start draining potholes and tilling nesting cover to make more cornfields, then I'll jump on your "holier than thou" band wagon.


\

I don't even know where to begin on this uneducated slander of a statement.


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## Chuck Smith

The reason why I always speak my opinion when I see a post on limiting NR numbers is because Limiting NR hunter numbers will do nothing for habitat!

To talk about pressure.....

You have to look at everything that is out there in regaurds to pressure: Early goose seasons, youth seasons, resident opener only, then the NR starting week. The birds have had lots of pressure that is why the week after the NR opener the birds move.

Ducks get pressure during the early goose. They dive into goose spread...They might not be shot at but they are not feeding in that feild, they feel the pressure. Then the youth hunt....getting shot at. Then look at the resident opener....getting shot at. Then finally the NR season....more pressure. The resource has had pressure put on it 4 different times with the amount of pressure with increasing every season.

Look at every other type of hunting....pheasant are easier to get at the begining of the season. Deer are not as wary as they are at the end of the season....late bow or muzzleloader.

I would hate to see the real issue get ignored with the whole NR/R thing. Because the real issue is habitat. Less habitat means less birds......LOOK AT MN!


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## roostbuster

"I don't even know where to begin on this uneducated slander of a statement."

who was I slandering? And you call me uneducated.


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## always_outdoors

> Sorry, but they don't suddenly stop flying at the border, sit down and have a discussion concerning the pressure they are going to face if they cross that line.


That is what the aerial surveys are starting to show. Maybe you should contact NDGF and see if you can do a ride along next fall. Biologists that I have spoken to say it is almost eerie to see it from an airplane.



> I personally think you all are just greedy, and using the argument "its for the resource" as a very convenient front.


Lets see we hunt mostly weekends with a few week days scattered in. An NR shows up for 14 straight days, gifts his birds everyday or provides a "hotel staff appreciation dinner" so that he can shoot more birds and I am the greedy one and for some reason I am using "its for the resouce" as a front. Wow. Did you come up with that one all by yourself roost? :huh:


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## Triple B

chuck, we see your point here, and I totally agree with you, obviously if we can produce more habitat it'll hold more birds, carryying capactiy yadda yadda yadda, what i am trying to point out is that increasing habitat acreage is becoming increasingly infeasible, therefore, we need to look at other measures to reduce pressure. hell if there was a cut and dry way to get more habitat land open to all sportsman then i'm sure we'd be discussing those issues instead, but with the upcoming agricultural events, this option seems very limited. I am not against NR's hunting here. i believe they should be able to share our resources also, however doesn't it makes sense to enact laws which give residents a first hand at resources in their own state? if many of you could only see the big picture you'd understand how things are changing for the worst. i hate to make predictions, but in 10 years you me and many others will have to hang up the gear, maybe because solutions to upcoming problems are not being met now.


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## Chuck Smith

Triple....

Instead of talking about limiting NR hunters.....Write your govenor and ask why he vetoed the land sale to DU? Write your congressmen to use the surplus of money the G&F has towards habitat improvement. (in a previous thread...someone wrote that the G&F had a couple of million in surplus) Write letters to use funds towards refuge projects. Write letters to increase PLOTS stamp fees.

Like I have stated before......cutting NR numbers is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound.....it might help a little in the short run. I myself am looking at the long run. HABITAT is the long run.....not cutting NR numbers.

You also talk about letting the R hunters get the first crack at the resource....don't they? Resident only opener, residnet only week of PLOTS.


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## cedarsedge

I kind of take offense to the "NR comes out and hunts 14 days and gifts all his birds" remark. I have been hunting the same area for 10 yrs now meet many great people and farmers that are more than happy to let us hunt there land. But when you lump all NR into 1 group and say we all do that, you better get your facts straight before you go making that accusations against me or others.

Dan


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## always_outdoors

If you aren't one of those hunters, then obviously your trip out here is to sit back and relax with your farmer and friends and not about shooting ducks. Just to have a nice hunt or two. So then the leg band or other NR restrictions shouldn't be of any interest to you. right?


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## averyghg

GEAT IDEA......this should resolve everything

Instead of caping NR license numbers, NR's should have to take a stupidity test before obtaining a license. If they pass, they can hunt!! If they don't they can't!!

This problem would take care of itself by cutting the numbers of NR's be atleast half of what they are now :beer:


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## hunter9494

Triple B said:


> averyghg said:
> 
> 
> 
> CHUCK:
> and by the way, it is about the kill for 95% of hunters and thats a fact, if you put all the time and money into hunting like most you would like to shoot a bird or two.
> 
> U can't tell me that u would be happy spending a couple thousand a year and shooting 2 ducks between 5 hunts
> 
> 
> 
> :sniper:
> 
> couple thousand??? i've spent over $5000 on gas alone this year for hunting, now if any NR can tell me they topped that in gas in ND alone, well then we can talk about "supporting" ND's economy! This country is falling into the hands of capitalists more everyday, and its getting terrible in ND, 5 years ago, we'd be hard pressed to find another hunting party around where we hunt, now we have to get out by 4 am to get the field, and it usually ends when NR comes at 7 and sets 40 yds away! what would the problem be with raising fees for lisences??? if NR's spend the money as it is to come here then they must not be hurting too much? whats another 100-200 dollars??? Its a limiting factor that may seperate the truly serious and nonslob hunters. I am by no means in the money, and I make many sacrifices to hunt as frequently as I do, why can't they??
Click to expand...

wow, if you spent over $5,000 on gas alone hunting this year, you must be a guide. at $2.50 a gallon, that's 2,000 gallons of fuel and a 4x4 averaging 16 mpg, let's see, that's 32,000 miles of windshield time! you must live in Minnesota because no R could possibly hunt everyday. yep I agree time to shut you guys off, you just pound the birds relentlessly daily and mess it up for the rest of us!


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## Straycat

I feel a lock coming. Keep it real guys. :eyeroll:


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## always_outdoors

Now I agree that the post should be locked. It has gotten out of context and the dialogue/discussion has been lost.


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## PSDC

live2hunt,

Please answer this question;

Who owns the resources in North Dakota?

Only the residents or all American citizens?

Thanks,

PSDC


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## averyghg

no need for lockdown, just some friendly debates and opinions goin around


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## roostbuster

averyghg said:


> GEAT IDEA......this should resolve everything
> 
> Instead of caping NR license numbers, NR's should have to take a stupidity test before obtaining a license. If they pass, they can hunt!! If they don't they can't!!
> 
> This problem would take care of itself by cutting the numbers of NR's be atleast half of what they are now :beer:


haha, make us residents take it too. the resident numbers would drop down to about a dozen or two, 12,000 NR's and say about 30 residents. that would solve the pressure issue.


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## roostbuster

live2hunt said:


> That is what the aerial surveys are starting to show. Maybe you should contact NDGF and see if you can do a ride along next fall. Biologists that I have spoken to say it is almost eerie to see it from an airplane.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally think you all are just greedy, and using the argument "its for the resource" as a very convenient front.
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see we hunt mostly weekends with a few week days scattered in. An NR shows up for 14 straight days, gifts his birds everyday or provides a "hotel staff appreciation dinner" so that he can shoot more birds and I am the greedy one and for some reason I am using "its for the resouce" as a front. Wow. Did you come up with that one all by yourself roost? :huh:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

can I get some biologists names so I can call them? or are they as made up as NR's causing problems in No Dak?

I know of more residents who shot over 300 honkers alone, not to mention ducks, than I know of NR's who hunted here. So who's hurting the respurce? And can you honestly say that the example you just showed is ANYWHERE NEAR a typical NR excursion to ND? Or even true I mean seriosuly, did you come up with that one all by yourself?


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## always_outdoors

PSDC: Since you asked first. The answer is nobody owns them, BUT each state/providence has its right to decide how to regulate the resource.

Here is a question for you PSDC: Who owns the resource in South Dakota? We don't have a cap, they do. How come I don't see your username on the SD outdoors forum complaining there? (Chuck don't answer for him).

That was an easy question. Can you make them harder?

I have other questions for you too PSDC? Are you from MN? How come you guys shot 1.5 million pheasants in 1945 in MN and yet in 2005 only 450,000? Your duck harvest numbers follow the same line. What happened to your resource? (Chuck don't answer for him).

Roostbuster: Call the NDGF at 328-6300 and ask for Mike Johnson. He is the lead waterfowl biologist. I am not sure if he was on any of the aerial surveys, but he would be able to give you names and numbers.



> I know of more residents who shot over 300 honkers alone, not to mention ducks, than I know of NR's who hunted here.


 You must not know very many NR's. Look at other forums besides this one. Many this fall were bragging about the limits they took here along with pictures.

This is also an extreme case you pointed out. There are not many residents who get/take that much time off to hunt. The far majority of us are weekend hunters mixed with a weekday hunt here and there. Now lets look at the NR numbers....25,000 plus hunters. Did they just come to hunt a weekend here or there. Were not the majority here 7 days or more hunting ALL 7 days in a row if possible??



> or are they as made up as NR's causing problems in No Dak?


Those are your words not mine. I didn't say they were causing problems. I believe the pressure on the birds is what is causing the problems. I also said we need NR's as an economy stimulus to our economy. What I also believe is that the amount of hunters be it R's or NR's should be based on biology and not dollar signs.

Can you guys make the questions harder? I am all warmed up now. I will take "MN bullying ND for $1000 Alex."


----------



## Triple B

hunter9494 said:


> Triple B said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> averyghg said:
> 
> 
> 
> CHUCK:
> and by the way, it is about the kill for 95% of hunters and thats a fact, if you put all the time and money into hunting like most you would like to shoot a bird or two.
> 
> U can't tell me that u would be happy spending a couple thousand a year and shooting 2 ducks between 5 hunts
> 
> 
> 
> :sniper:
> 
> couple thousand??? i've spent over $5000 on gas alone this year for hunting, now if any NR can tell me they topped that in gas in ND alone, well then we can talk about "supporting" ND's economy! This country is falling into the hands of capitalists more everyday, and its getting terrible in ND, 5 years ago, we'd be hard pressed to find another hunting party around where we hunt, now we have to get out by 4 am to get the field, and it usually ends when NR comes at 7 and sets 40 yds away! what would the problem be with raising fees for lisences??? if NR's spend the money as it is to come here then they must not be hurting too much? whats another 100-200 dollars??? Its a limiting factor that may seperate the truly serious and nonslob hunters. I am by no means in the money, and I make many sacrifices to hunt as frequently as I do, why can't they??
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> wow, if you spent over $5,000 on gas alone hunting this year, you must be a guide. at $2.50 a gallon, that's 2,000 gallons of fuel and a 4x4 averaging 16 mpg, let's see, that's 32,000 miles of windshield time! you must live in Minnesota because no R could possibly hunt everyday. yep I agree time to shut you guys off, you just pound the birds relentlessly daily and mess it up for the rest of us!
Click to expand...

sorry fella, not a guide, i figured around 30,000 miles and yes i live in ND, i do my homework, maybe a little too much, i am not rich at all, I just do it right!


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## PSDC

live2hunt???

What's with the hostility, I asked a simple question!

Don't have an access to South Dakota website, nor 
do I care. To me the natural resources are owned
by each American citizen and the govt. have the
right to monitor/control said resource.

Minnesota is a lost cause when it comes to habitat/resource,
too many democrats in office, only worried about 
the "arts/muesums" in St. Paul.


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## Triple B

PSDC said:


> live2hunt???
> 
> What's with the hostility, I asked a simple question!
> 
> Don't have an access to South Dakota website, nor
> do I care. To me the natural resources are owned
> by each American citizen and the govt. have the
> right to monitor/control said resource.
> 
> Minnesota is a lost cause when it comes to habitat/resource,
> too many democrats in office, only worried about
> the "arts/muesums" in St. Paul.


well lets regulate our state before it too becomes a lost cause.


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## always_outdoors

PM sent to you PSDC.


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## cedarsedge

> text


 The reason our #'s went down is look at the farming practices done now. Every pothole is dried up to farm, less grassland for birds same with ducks. And also our population has exploded in the last 10 yrs every woods or area with a pond next to it has a home now.
As far as "MN bullying ND'' I'm sorry you feel that way.
Dan


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## Triple B

Chuck Smith said:


> Triple....
> 
> Instead of talking about limiting NR hunters.....Write your govenor and ask why he vetoed the land sale to DU? Write your congressmen to use the surplus of money the G&F has towards habitat improvement. (in a previous thread...someone wrote that the G&F had a couple of million in surplus) Write letters to use funds towards refuge projects. Write letters to increase PLOTS stamp fees.
> 
> Like I have stated before......cutting NR numbers is like putting a band aid on a gun shot wound.....it might help a little in the short run. I myself am looking at the long run. HABITAT is the long run.....not cutting NR numbers.
> 
> You also talk about letting the R hunters get the first crack at the resource....don't they? Resident only opener, residnet only week of PLOTS.


 heres the deal, I have no interest in soliciting the resource any further in our state, to be bluntly honest, i don't wake up every morning wondering how we are going to accomodate the ever increasing influx of NR's on our resources. i care only about the future of waterfowling in our state as a whole, but moreover, for my children(and if they decide to move out of the state, its their own damn fault) what do u think would happen with more habitat??? we'd probably see even more NR's and even more pressure. it will be a cycle that will not stop at habitat, it needs restrictions, heres another idea, if they put a restriction in NR's is there any other residents that would take an increase in their lisence fees, i know for for cetain i'd part with 100 dollars a year to foot the bill.


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## Chuck Smith

Triple B....

I am glad you are worried about your children and the future of hunting in ND. But I think you are looking at the small issue not the bigger one.

This past year ND had less NR hunters than in 2005. I see as the economy slows so will expendable income, ie hunting trips. I believe ND will see another decline in NR hunters this up coming season.

I think if you get more habitat on the ground you wont see the great increase in NR hunters. I just don't want ND to become MN with the loss of habitat. Like cedersedge stated......farming practices changed MN habitat. Loss of CRP, drainage of wetlands, people buying land in the outstate to build homes on, etc.

Now with the president looking at ethanol.....farming practices will be changing!!!! So now add that to a dry year in ND.....more sloughs will be drained and tilled to plant corn, fields could be tiled, crp lost, etc. I see ND loss of habitat becoming a huge issue! So like I mentioned over and over........the voters of ND should be pressing for more habitat issues than how many NR enter the state to hunt.


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## Triple B

Chuck Smith said:


> Triple B....
> 
> I am glad you are worried about your children and the future of hunting in ND. But I think you are looking at the small issue not the bigger one.
> 
> This past year ND had less NR hunters than in 2005. I see as the economy slows so will expendable income, ie hunting trips. I believe ND will see another decline in NR hunters this up coming season.
> 
> I think if you get more habitat on the ground you wont see the great increase in NR hunters. I just don't want ND to become MN with the loss of habitat. Like cedersedge stated......farming practices changed MN habitat. Loss of CRP, drainage of wetlands, people buying land in the outstate to build homes on, etc.
> 
> Now with the president looking at ethanol.....farming practices will be changing!!!! So now add that to a dry year in ND.....more sloughs will be drained and tilled to plant corn, fields could be tiled, crp lost, etc. I see ND loss of habitat becoming a huge issue! So like I mentioned over and over........the voters of ND should be pressing for more habitat issues than how many NR enter the state to hunt.


so based on the habitat availability this year would you not admit ND was conjested and over-pressured. I do see your point chuck and i also believe it could be a solution, but given the trends in NR hunting sales, and given the habitat conditions, its not going to get any better by habitat improvement alone. this year was considered a dry year correct? so by your theory if it had in fact been wet then everything would be hunky dorey. well this may disperse hunters it will not lighten the pressure that drastically, how long do u think it took birds to figure out to stay longer in canada, it wasn't this year alone. thats another trend that we can correlate with hunting pressure which can then be positivly correlated to NR lisence sales. as far as habitat is concerned I agree we need to do something, but theres only so much we as sportsman can do. and believe me the last thing you want to throw in the farmers face you're asking to hunt on is that you lobbied for less agriculture production. maybe you as an NR should start lobbying for better habitat production???


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## roostbuster

Triple B said:


> maybe you as an NR should start lobbying for better habitat production???


what do you mean here? habitat restoration? improvement of exsisting habitat?
if your talking restoration, the key to this (if its even possible in X location due to soil additives) is private landowner participiation, ie farmers. so wouldn't this fall into less ag. production?

I agree we need to keep farmers happy, but if you want your kids to stack 'em up, habitat is your only answer, we can't stock pile birds and save them for later.


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## hunter9494

I am wondering about the quota on NR waterfowl hunters in SD. is there any other state that has a restriction on the number of NR waterfowl licenses available each year? there may well be, but none that i know about. 
I wonder why Arkansas has not followed suit? What is so different about SD? I guess since they cater to pheasant hunters primarily, they did not experience any significant economic effect? 
What if every state took a protectionist stance? What if we limited the number of NR deer or turkey hunting licenses in Missouri? What if we limited the number of NR quail hunting licenses in Texas or Oklahoma? 
(Of course none of this would matter, unless you WANTED to hunt these game species in these states, but it is something to think about.)
We would surely develop a distinct dislike for everyone for different reasons, (just because of WHERE they lived) which would not be benefical to any state.

The bottom line is all the complaining and finger pointing on a forum won't make any difference. If it is that important to you guys in ND, take a lesson from your sister state (SD) and get something passed. There are alot of guys that hunt here that don't harbor protectionist views regarding NR's that hunt or fish in their own state. No one is breaking the law by coming here to hunt. Get the laws changed and get a quota system started if it is that big a deal. And remember, if ND dries up and you have to travel to Arkansas to shoot ducks, you better hope they don't set a quota either, because that is exactly what will happen. Careful for what you wish for.


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## Triple B

roostbuster said:


> Triple B said:
> 
> 
> 
> maybe you as an NR should start lobbying for better habitat production???
> 
> 
> 
> what do you mean here? habitat restoration? improvement of exsisting habitat?
Click to expand...

well, MN would be a start, but if its ND thats the worry, then here too. restoration, reclamation, anythings better than nothing right?


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## roostbuster

hunter9494 said:


> And remember, if ND dries up and you have to travel to Arkansas to shoot ducks, you better hope they don't set a quota either, because that is exactly what will happen. Careful for what you wish for.


Not if... but WHEN. but I'm sure it will be the NR's fault, they contributed to much to global warming by driving their trucks all the way to No Dak.
And running their two-stroke outboards.


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## averyghg

roostbuster:

my guess is that you're from out of state but you're going to school in grand forks. either that or your boyfriend is an out of stater and you're just protecting him


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## roostbuster

averyghg said:


> roostbuster:
> 
> my guess is that you're from out of state but you're going to school in grand forks. either that or your boyfriend is an out of stater and you're just protecting him


oh good gay joke, I haven't heard one like that since recess in 6th grade, which I'm assuming you're in as you haven't been able to do anything but call people names. But you guessed wrong, my b/f doesn't need to protect me he's at home making me dinner right now. Although I am not a born and raised local, I have been living here for longer than you have been alive (12. 13 years old maybe?). I'm just not a closed minded punk.


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## Triple B

sure, I'd believe it :eyeroll:


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## roostbuster

ok? so everyone in the state of ND his required to hate NR's and boats? Sorry, but no matter how long I live here, I won't play those games.


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## averyghg

roostbuster, your name says it all. Typical NR name.

P.S. Im headed to med school next year so either im doogie hauser or im older than 13. And when im making 200,000-300,000 dollars a year starting pay, ill give you and your boyfriend 5 dollars each to clean all the birds i shoot on my privately owned off limits to nonresident hunting land


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## always_outdoors

roostbuster. I challenge you to go down to Arkansas to hunt ducks. Good luck. I have colleagues down there and basically only the rich hunt. That is why they don't need a cap on NR's because unless you have a fat wallet, you don't hunt.

Us average guys couldn't afford to hunt there.

Try South Carolina or Texas. I have colleagues there as well. They have been up here. They cannot believe that leases are not part of hunting. They also side with the things I have said above. "Protect what you have" is all they keep saying "or you will end up like all of us."

Obviously I am not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine, but I will give you the cudos for moving here. Reap the benefits now because if you think unlimited access of NR's won't change the outlook of hunting in ND, you are gravely mistaken.

I am done with the post people. If you want to call me on the carpet for something else or more on this post, please do it in a PM. The rest of my posts stand for what I believe and I think I have pretty much covered it.

For those that responded in a civilized manner and were good at discussing and asking questions, I appreciate it.

live2hunt is out.


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## shiawassee_kid

live2hunt said:


> roostbuster. I challenge you to go down to Arkansas to hunt ducks. Good luck. I have colleagues down there and basically only the rich hunt. That is why they don't need a cap on NR's because unless you have a fat wallet, you don't hunt.
> 
> Us average guys couldn't afford to hunt there.
> 
> Try South Carolina or Texas. I have colleagues there as well. They have been up here. They cannot believe that leases are not part of hunting. They also side with the things I have said above. "Protect what you have" is all they keep saying "or you will end up like all of us."
> 
> Obviously I am not going to change your mind and you aren't going to change mine, but I will give you the cudos for moving here. Reap the benefits now because if you think unlimited access of NR's won't change the outlook of hunting in ND, you are gravely mistaken.
> 
> I am done with the post people. If you want to call me on the carpet for something else or more on this post, please do it in a PM. The rest of my posts stand for what I believe and I think I have pretty much covered it.
> 
> For those that responded in a civilized manner and were good at discussing and asking questions, I appreciate it.
> 
> live2hunt is out.


actually live2hunt, i've been too all those places....and i had an awesome time. I was an outa stater, I hunted public and private land without guide.... it was fun and we shot limits. Of course each place took some work and alot of making friends of locals to get to know how the hunting works....but all in all it was fun.

Earlier in the thread you denied a witchhunt on NR's but after reading your next 20 comments, your trying to hide behind the pressure thing. I'm still trying to figure out where your season was so bad last year I was in state (nd) for 3 weeks (only hunted 2 of it obviously) and had an absolute blast. I never had any serious issues finding birds the whole time. Its almost like your claiming the sky is falling.....

Why don't you spend this energy on talking the hundreds of farmers i seen burning cattails and making way for next years crop.


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## shiawassee_kid

averyghg said:


> roostbuster, your name says it all. Typical NR name.
> 
> P.S. Im headed to med school next year so either im doogie hauser or im older than 13. And when im making 200,000-300,000 dollars a year starting pay, ill give you and your boyfriend 5 dollars each to clean all the birds i shoot on my privately owned off limits to nonresident hunting land


uh, this makes you seem even younger than you were accused. Although this does reek of the "short, fat, bald guy with new red corvette" syndrom.


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## Goldy's Pal

Welcome to Kindergarten!

(Sung to the tune of "Deck The Halls")

Welcome to our kindergarten. 
We will learn a lot of things today.
Here we are in kindergarten.
We will have a lot of time to play.
We will learn the alphabet and
We will learn how to write numbers, too.
We'll have fun in kindergarten,
'Cause there are so many things to do!


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## Triple B

its too early for told ya so's, but wait ten years, then remember I told ya so.


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## roostbuster

averyghg said:


> roostbuster, your name says it all. Typical NR name.
> 
> P.S. Im headed to med school next year so either im doogie hauser or im older than 13. And when im making 200,000-300,000 dollars a year starting pay, ill give you and your boyfriend 5 dollars each to clean all the birds i shoot on my privately owned off limits to nonresident hunting land


great post. :thumb:

Triple B- your right it is way to early.

Live2hunt- I have never been to any of those places, and don't plan on hunting any of those areas aside from maybe a once in a life-time hunt. But as soon as ND goes dry, I'm just going to buy NR license and hunt in Minnesota.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Thread is going nowhere...typical pointless attacks.

LOCKED


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