# Anybody using an AR15?



## growlernc (Feb 14, 2005)

I'm thinking about building a dedicated varminter. First choice was a heavy barreled Remington 700 in .22/250 but I'm seeing pretty impressive accuracy displayed by custom AR15's in .223. Any pro's or con's from those of you using the AR? I've not hunted coyotes for over fifteen years since moving to North Carolina but as the population is rising here I'm going to get back into it. Most shots would be in the 100 yard or less range with up to 300 yards+ a possibility. Thanks for your inputs!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Will be a lot more expensive than a 700 if you want the top of the line in accuracy.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

About the only issue I see with this is that a flattop AR has a picatinny rail system that will not work with any weaver bases. There are adapters made, but expensive.

Not really an issue either, just something to be aware of.

A decent Varmit 700 will run you $650+. A decent varmint barreled AR will run you $700-950 depending on what you get. A scope is irrelevant as it would cast you the same with either setup.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

You can always put it togeather your self. Mine will shoot every bit as good as a 700. If you buy a put togeather gun it will be a little more expensive then you have mags to buy. I am using a bushmaster lower and a kit from model 1 sales. Very easy to put togeather. I put my first one togeather from a kit (upper not assembeled) in about 3 or 4 hrs and that was to drive and get my dads torque wrence. The upper reciever for me is a little low. I am using the highest rings they make.

What I really like about my gun is if i miss a real long range shot all I have to do is just quickly look where the bullet hit accouring to the scope(mil dot) then just aim there. I cannot tell you how many PD have died because they had to look at the little puf of dust while a bullet was already on its way for them. (evil laugh)


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## growlernc (Feb 14, 2005)

Either way I'll build it myself. I know what to get and where to get it to build (yet) another 700, I already have some fixturing and tooling as well. The AR will involve a learning curve as well as $ to tool-up. I'm just trying to figure our if there's an up side to the AR as opposed to a heavy barrelled 700. It might just come down to personal preference? What's an AR weigh with a full mag and scoped with bi-pod? Outside of advertising claims, what could I hope to expect as far as real world accuracy? At first blush, the AR looks maybe a little easier to lug around all day both in terms of weight and length, never having handled one I can't really say.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Woa! Good AR-15's can be built for alot less htan $700! buy the parts seperately and assemble them yourself, and it can be done for $500, and will shoot just as good. then you can add a $150 scope and your at the base price for the 700 alone.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

pick up a decent AR lower for anywhere from $85 to 120. Lower parts kit for around $45-55, stock set for about $50, upper receiver for $400-450 complete with bolt and carier...

Yop, pretty much in that $500-600 range is VERY possible.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

mr.trooper said:


> Woa! Good AR-15's can be built for alot less htan $700! buy the parts seperately and assemble them yourself, and it can be done for $500, and will shoot just as good. then you can add a $150 scope and your at the base price for the 700 alone.


Seriously? I thought you had to spend about 1000 to get a decent one. Which upper and lower would you use?


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Not realy. i know alot of guys over on http://www.hk94.com forums have built their own ARs for around $500, and they say the accuracy is just fine. You should talk to them, they would be able to tell you better than me. i have the pages bookmarked, but they are on a different machiene wich is un reachable while im away at school.

O dear, WHAT HAVE I DONE? Iv unleashed you on those poor un-suspecting souls...


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

To get a REALLY Decent one, you're talking over $2000.
lower receiver
LRB Arms

Upper receiver
Vulcan arms

Lower receiver kit
Armalite

A source for the other stuff...
www.ar15.com

come on MT, think we would give you ALL our secrets.....   :lol: :lol: :beer:



mr.trooper said:


> O dear, WHAT HAVE I DONE? Iv unleashed you on those poor un-suspecting souls...


Could have sent him to Glock Talk....


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## growlernc (Feb 14, 2005)

While cost is a factor I'm more interested in how an AR performs compared to a bolt gun. How accurate are the guns you guys are assembling? From cruising other threads, the .223 has it's following for coyote but do you have to give anything up either in bullet selection or weight to make an AR run? I handload and am assuming you're going to have to remain within a window for bullet weight, shape and velocity to get an AR to feed and cycle. On average how would bullet speed compare to a bolt gun?


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

barrel choice will depend on bullet choice as with any rifle. A longer bullet will require a faster twist barrel.

the big things that make any AR or a bolt gun accurate is the action/barrel integrity. How square the barrel is to the bolt face. and how true the chamber is to the barrel.

with that in mind. The most important part of the AR is going to be the barrel and the barrel extension and how the bolt fits together. These are equal to the receiver, bolt and barrel on the bolt guns.

how does the AR compare to the bolt? It is the ruler of the line at Camp Perry and the high power competitions if that means anything to you.

As to reloading for the AR. It is a two edged sword really. decent surplus can be had for 13-15 cent a round. Can't reload plinking ammo for that. Reloading wil allow you to get into the 72 and 77 gr bullets. Something next to impossible to find in a factory load in a .223. These would be your 600 and 1000 yds rounds there.


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## FurGittr (Jan 24, 2003)

Farmerj,
I too have been considering an AR,in your opinion would a 24 inch barrel be worth the extra cost/weight as opposed to a 20 inch in terms of accuracy?Also,would these guns be capable of cycling the poly tip or hollow point loads without jamming?What barrel would you recommend for these loads as I'm not interested in shooting FMJ for coyotes?


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

the AR would be great for Coyote, and the expansion potentil is verry high!

Want to shoot coyotes at over 1,000 yards? get te 50 ferret upper!

Want a fast handling, hard hitting gun for callin um in close? get the 50 beowulf upper!

just wana be wierd? get the 6.5 Remington or 6.8 berret uper recievers!

So much fun to had with an AR...


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## 1lessdog (Feb 4, 2004)

Theres a Guy in Bemiji Mn that own Dedicated Technolgy (Mike Milli) that builds custom AR's.Im looking at a 243 wssm or a 25 wssm.They are running about 1500.00 with all the goodies.Custom stainless barrel.Trigger,ported barrel 3 custom mags.He will guarantee better then 1/2 groups.He will also build 223,17,22-250,243.Hope this helps


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## nitwit (Dec 18, 2004)

I have both an AR and a Remington 700 vls. They both shoot about the same (around .5" most of the time). But I always carry the AR to calling stands - I love the rifle; I think it is the perfect calling weapon. I built mine (with some help from Mike at Dedicated Technology) and I'm sure I spent a couple hundred dollars more on the AR than the Remington. Without a doubt, IMHO, if a person had one dedicated calling rifle, you couldn't beat the AR. I use 60 grain hollow points - they kill those coyotes dead and are very fur friendly.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

FurGittr said:


> Farmerj,
> I too have been considering an AR,in your opinion would a 24 inch barrel be worth the extra cost/weight as opposed to a 20 inch in terms of accuracy?Also,would these guns be capable of cycling the poly tip or hollow point loads without jamming?What barrel would you recommend for these loads as I'm not interested in shooting FMJ for coyotes?


I have seen guys use the Sierra hollow point matcking and game kings with no big problems at all. The same can be said with the ballistic tips.

As to barrel, if you want the light bullets, 45 gr or less, stay with a 1:10 or 1:11 twist.

If you are going with a 50 gr or btter, go with a 1:9 or 1:8 twist barrel.

Just about every upper on the market come standard with a 1:9 or a 1:7 twist The 77 or 80 gr bullets wil need the 1:7 or 1:8 twists.

Typically, for every inch of barrel you will lose or gain about 50 FPS in velocity. so you gotta ask yourself, "How much walking a gonna do VS how much shootin' ya gonna do?"

If you think your gonna ever go prairie dog shooting, get a 24" varmit barrel. If you are ever gonna think about shooting at the high power match, at minimum, get the DPMS "CMP" upper. The barrel is full floated, but it looks like a standard AR A2 grip.


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## mh454 (Jul 2, 2004)

Thought I would throw in my 2 cents on ARs. I got into AR-15's about a year ago and have one lower and three uppers currently. All are Rock River Arms (RRA) and all bought through rbprecision.com (except for my 20" WhiteOak upper for NRA highpower competition which I bought used). I did a lot of research before I bought and found the choice of RRA and RB is the best bang for your buck (in my opinion). My first upper was 20" Varmit. These things are HEAVY. I sold that because I wanted something a bit lighter and looked cooler (since the AWB expired) :beer: My new coyote upper is just a regular 20" pre-ban barrel with a Yanke hill machine free float rail. This new upper is a little lighter and looks better too (if that really makes any difference). Accuracey is also very good. Here is a group I did at 100 yards with Black Hills ammo in 77 grain Sierra Match King: 








I don't have a picture of my setup but this one is almost exactly what I have except I don't have a stainless barrel (the front sight flips down):


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## FurGittr (Jan 24, 2003)

Thanks guy's,lot's to consider.I would be using this primarily for calling with the lighter grain loads and would prefer stainless and am going with 223 cal.So you guy's in the know,how would you have one built with calling in mind but still capable of 500 yard shots?


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## mh454 (Jul 2, 2004)

FurGittr said:


> Thanks guy's,lot's to consider.I would be using this primarily for calling with the lighter grain loads and would prefer stainless and am going with 223 cal.So you guy's in the know,how would you have one built with calling in mind but still capable of 500 yard shots?


I would go with a 20" 1:9 or 1:8 twist barrel (heavy profile also sometime referred to as HBAR which is a Colt term but used by others sometimes). A 20" barrel is going to give you lots of velocity and the 1:9 or 1:8 will allow you to shoot 55-77 grain just fine. I would definately get some sort of free float tube as these help accuracey. I basic float tube cost about $50 more than the standard plactic handguards which actually touch the barrel. If you will be using a scope and done need iron sights, ditch the front sight base in favor of a gas block. Check out Rock Rivers site for lots of info and pics: http://www.rockriverarms.com/ and this place for purchasing: http://www.rbprecision.com/rock_river_a ... rifles.htm also check out http://www.ar15.com for lots of info.


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## FurGittr (Jan 24, 2003)

Went to a gun show and several gun shops this weekend and looked at the Colt AR,DPMS Panthers,Bushmasters and some other cheap brand I wasn't interested in.As I assumed the Colt's were the most spendy,was wondering what your opinions are of the Bushmasters and Panthers in terms of best value but ultimately as far as accuracy.This will be by far the spendiest gun I'll ever buy and want to get it right the first time.Thanks for all of the input,I'm slowly gaining insight on these rifles.


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## wranglerpockets (Feb 24, 2005)

you were asking about the choice of an AR15 over other rifles I have a 25-06 that is a great rifle but you can make an even better rifle yourself if you know where to look if you are interested in the information feel free to contact me and I will be happy to help a fellow shooter find the best deal :sniper:


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## mh454 (Jul 2, 2004)

FurGittr said:


> Went to a gun show and several gun shops this weekend and looked at the Colt AR,DPMS Panthers,Bushmasters and some other cheap brand I wasn't interested in.As I assumed the Colt's were the most spendy,was wondering what your opinions are of the Bushmasters and Panthers in terms of best value but ultimately as far as accuracy.This will be by far the spendiest gun I'll ever buy and want to get it right the first time.Thanks for all of the input,I'm slowly gaining insight on these rifles.


Talking about Colt,DPMS,Bushmaster,Armalite,RRA,etc is like Chevy vs. Ford vs. Dodge, its all about opinions. Personally I have RRA and have been very impressed. They have all the quality of the other but around a $100 (or more) less. I would highly recommend checking out the board over at ar15.com.


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