# People are selfish arses



## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

From today's Star Tribune:

ST. CLOUD -- Two hunters were fined $300 for distracting ducks from landing on a rural lake where two young girls were participating in Youth Waterfowl Day.

Brothers Ronald Hoppe, 61, Freeport, Minn., and Herbert Hoppe, 69, St. Cloud, said the event left them with fewer ducks to hunt when the regular season opened.

The brothers received misdemeanor convictions for hunter harassment. The Hoppes and two others were cited Sept. 14, 2002, and the brothers' fines were issued on Friday.

The four were accused of paddling around Getchel Lake, southwest of Albany, Minn., and distracting birds from landing on the lake. Two 12-year-old girls were hiding in duck blinds waiting for their chance at the birds. An adult who was supervising the girls videotaped the incident.

The one-day hunt sponsored by the Department of Natural Resources has been touted as a way to get young hunters involved. In 2002, it took place one week before the regular opener.

The girls told a DNR conservation officer that they felt threatened by what the Hoppes did.

The case went to trial in September 2003, and a jury found the Hoppes guilty. The jury found the other two men not guilty.

Associated Press


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Land of 10,000 lakes and either party couldn't find a place they won't annoy someone. Don't make any sense to me. :homer:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't think you understand buckseye...The 2 girls were hunting during the youth only season...the two adult males were trying to keep them from shooting birds on THEIR lake.So there would be more ducks a week later when the regular season opened.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Oh I didn't relize it was a private lake. poor kids...actually as far as I'm concerned a 12 year old shouldn't have a gun in a hunting situation anyway. Oh sure some folks just adore their little hunters and have all the time and money in the world to haul them around and such. I just think kids appreciate things more when they earn it themselves. It's like these kids are being trained for canned hunts only.

You must have all been around some of your friends kids that scared the hell out of you when you see them with a gun, loaded to boot.


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

Buckseye, How are they being trained for canned hunts?? I think its great these kids were out hunting. I trust alot more twelve year olds with a shotguns duck or goose hunting, than 50 year olds with a rifle, deer hunting!
Whats the saying Tim Grounds has on his Super mag tape?? "Don't be afraid to get your kid around a shotgun, alot of people wait til they're kids are 16, and thems the ones who's got an attitude and they're gunna do it how they want to!" 
I think thats the quote!

How old were you when you started hunting??


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

I'd start the kids when ever they have an interest. If it's 9 or 10 with a youth model shot gun and they have the interest, do it then. Some have to wait a little longer if they're immature or small in stature. I've seen many kids just never pick up the sport when they were forced to wait until 15 or 16. There's just too many other things competing for their time to wait to introduce them to shooting and hunting until 16 or so. And the wait until they've earned it attitude........make them earn it when they're 10. I guess I've always "loved to haul them around and such".

Both my sons accompanied me on hunts at 10 with youth shot guns. They carried their own guns into the field and although they were pump shotguns, received "one" shell per flock of ducks into the decoys. Both are now avid hunters and one can out hunt Dad for Ducks and geese every day now at 19.

Back to the point of this thread. It wasn't a private lake! The story was about a couple of selfish older sportsmen who are upset that there was a season before their season that they couldn't participate in so they tried to ruin the hunt for the youth hunters. As I said on another thread, they got off cheap....would have been better to suspend their hunting rights for a year or two. The unfortunate thing about this incident is that if they had the gaul to do this in the first place, they probabaly fee little or no remorse for their actions.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

You all got bigger balls than me, I am very cautious around kids under 14 or so with anything but a bb gun (they hurt too). Don't you think when human lives are on the line a little more experience in the field would be a good idea. You only die once.

Next you all will have your 10 year olds coming down the road at 75 miles an hour...another potentialy dangerous situation. That's why we are tested as individuals by the state, not all people are capable of these responsibilities.

One thing I may not be considering is kids these days are forced to grow up quicker... with both parents working and not alot of adult supervision.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Great God Almighty! I shot my first rabbit when I was 9 with a shotgun and was shooting at honkers and ducks when I was 12 with a 12 gauge?? To say all 12 year olds don't have resposibility to hold a gun in the blind is outrageous indeed! It is all how you are taught.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Buckseye...you evidently don't like the youth season.
Those girls had their father in the blind with them.What better way to introduce young hunters to hunting than during a season just for them...when an adult can keep an eye on them.

They had to pass a hunter's safety course to hunt.

I do agree that big game hunters need to be at least 14 here in ND.shooting a rifle is a lot different than a shotgun because of range.

Minn. allows 12 year olds to hunt deer...too young.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey Ken I am all in favor of a youth season but where is the line between children and youth. I just don't see the smiles on these kids faces when they are hunting to please their dads. Look at the pics posted in these forums and see for yourself how happy these kids look. For cripes sake let the kids be kids they have along time ahead of them to be responsible.

Personally I think they should spend one or even two years in the field doing everything a hunter duz but without a gun. The stories of what they see and can't shoot is what keeps them in the game for the next year etc....


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey porkchop I am trying to stay in the middle of the road on this topic, not at the extreme ends. Thanks... you're an interesting fellar. There is a time and place for everything.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

In the middle??



> You all got bigger balls than me, I am very cautious around kids under 14 or so with anything but a bb gun (they hurt too). Don't you think when human lives are on the line a little more experience in the field would be a good idea. You only die once.
> 
> Next you all will have your 10 year olds coming down the road at 75 miles an hour...another potentialy dangerous situation. That's why we are tested as individuals by the state, not all people are capable of these responsibilities.





> Thanks... you're an interesting fellar.


If you only knew!!! :beer: I am not purposely trying to offend you but if I am well I can not help that. It just as my dad would say "frosts my balls" when people put everyone in one group. I agree there are some 12 year olds that should not have a gun but I think we would both agree that there are some 30 year olds that should not either. I passed on a lot of geese because I did not think the shot was right just to get reprimended by older men because I did not shoot. Who would you say was in error?? Me the 12 year old or the 30 something year old guys that wanted more birds in the bag???

I hope my girls have the same opportunity for a youth day and I hope some scum bag like the above does not screw it up! Greedy people suck!



> Personally I think they should spend one or even two years in the field doing everything a hunter duz but without a gun. The stories of what they see and can't shoot is what keeps them in the game for the next year etc....


I could not agree more! You just don't throw a gun in a kid's hand and bring them hunting. My dad brought me since I could walk. Maybe that is why I was not the average 12 year old!


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## 870 XPRS (Mar 12, 2003)

I'll agree to that porkchop. I've hunted with numerous younger kids. Nobody in their right mind just throws a gun at their kid and says "Learn to hold that thing we are going hunting whether you like it or not." I too started hunting at a young age, i shot my first pheasant when i was 8. The fact that this article turned into a dispute over whether or not these girls should of been out there on a YOUTH day is quite ridiculous. Whose to say those girls hadn't been hunting with their dad since they were 5. The fact of the matter is that there were a couple of older morons who are probably lacking a chromosome.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Our GNF has drawn the lines...must have Hunter Safety.Don't they have to be 12 to take Hunter Safety?

14 for biggame licenses.

Must have an adult along during the youth season.

Similar to a drivers license...14 if you take Driver's Ed...16 if you don't.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Ken,

Yes they have to be 11 years old to be able to take hunters safety. In ND they don't "need" the certificate before they are 12. Before 12 they can but the license for upland/waterfowl and don't need the hunter certificate. Sounds strange. But it's true. I've had both boys out in the field before they had to take the hunters course. The biggest thing is they require the youth to be 11 years old so they can comprehend the course materials.

I beilieve MN requires the certificate to be able to buy the license at any age and since they don't offer the course for those under 12, that's the starting age of hunting.

Thank goodness the state of ND made the driving age 16 years old. The way it was until a year ago was they could get the license at 14 and take the driving test 6 months later...which gave them a full unrestricted license.

Then there's the co-habitation law in ND.......................


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey 870exp this got off track when I said it was funny that with 10,000 lakes, it would be a problem for people to find a place not to annoy each other. Maybe those kids dad shoulda tried harder too, I don't know. I sure hope this is not a dispute. :beer:

Porkchop... I don't see anything offensive in your words, and like you hope none was intended. :beer:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

FH...I don't have any boys and my girls weren't interested.So I don't know the exact rules.

Has anyone ever asked the GNF why kids can hunt without first taking Hunter's Safety???

Why let a kid hunt when he is 8-9 years old and then make him take it at 12????


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

buckseye,

I did not think you were trying to be offensive. But curiousity has got me. hehehe How did you come to the conclusion that I am an interesting fellow? You can PM me if you want but be gentle!

55 more days!!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey Porkchop... lets call it hunters intuition, I sense you are not the mild mannered nerd one would tend to see in front of a computer. And for cripes sake no offense is being intended to anyone. :beer: :toofunny:


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

The age for kids hunting small game and birds is left to the parents discretion. As stated before, all people mature differently. State law mandates anyone who is 12 (and born after 12/21/1961) needs to have hunter safety to purchase a license. The hunter safety people feel that they get more out of the course at the 11 year old age bracket. I don't see a problem with a one on one hunting experience with a young kid even before they have had hunter safety. You don't send them loose with the gun, you give them one shell and either walk right beside them or sit next to them and devote your time to helping the child, not hunting yourself. My own father started me at 9, and I got one shell and he sat right next to me, often sacrificing his own hunting to help me. This can be a very safe activity. It doesn't hurt to let the kids go out without a firearm either. My 7 yr old daughter has been accompanying me for two years as a spectator. When I finally let her hunt when she is 9, she will already have 3 years under her belt.

Buckseye, you said you though they should have more experience, how do they get it if you don't let them hunt?

As stated earlier, it has been found in studies that if kids are not exposed to it before their late teens, they often will not be life long participants.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

You answered your own question muzzy, by being a spectator is a good way for kids to get the feel for what is safe and what is not safe. I have helped many youth deer hunters and believe me I don't let them get behind me for any reason.

Of course accidents will always happen, and I think a person who is in the learning process is more apt to make a mistake than a person who is experienced.

I am happy for these kids that hunt and for myself too, they are the next voters and we need their favorable votes. So keep up the good work all of you that are involved in the next generation of hunters. Thanks and Good Luck


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## Scraper (Apr 1, 2002)

The safest people that I know started young. They handle their gun responsibly and well because they have done it for so long.

Children love the outdoors. Don't miss out on the opportunity to share the outdoors with a child because you think they are too young.

I applaud everyone that takes their kids out for the youth seasons. It takes balls. It takes balls, because you have to put your balls on the shelf for a day and concentrate on your kids having a good time.

Shame on those two selfish old crusties for trying to wreck someone else's day.


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## cooter77 (Sep 30, 2003)

> This can be a very safe activity. It doesn't hurt to let the kids go out without a firearm either. My 7 yr old daughter has been accompanying me for two years as a spectator. When I finally let her hunt when she is 9, she will already have 4 years under her belt.


Muzzy you could not be more right. When I was a young boy my father sat down with me and explained the do's and dont's of hunting. I was also allowed to follow him on squirrel and deer hunting trips. Each trip was an education on ethical hunting and gun use. When I was old enough to undergo hunters saftey training my dad signed me up. Upon completion my class had a trap shooting trip to our local range in which all of our parents were required to be there. My father presented me with a New England single shot 20 gauge alowing for just one shot at all game I hunted. I was also not allowed to hunt with my friends unsupervised until I was 16 and all parents of my group were satisfied with our competance with a firearm.

My point is that anyone could be dangerous at any age and any time. In Lake Onalaska in La Crosse this spring an 80 year old fisherman who has fished this location his whole life fell out of his boat, hit his head and drown. Just because he is 80 does not mean accidents don't happen. All we can do is provide the proper training and supervision and trust that what we have given them the principles to lead a safe and happy hunting career.

thanks for your time :beer:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey all, I have helped alot of youth hunters with their first deer gun hunt and it is a blast. I'm not a guide, just a local with alot of time learning the land and animals.

Because I don't know these kids I am always apprehensive of each and every new hunter whether it be boy or girl. I must rely upon the training/instruction given to these kids by their parents and hunter safety.About half of these kids were hunting for their dads ego not theirs. It's up to all of us to get kids into hunting and make it fun, without all the trophy pressure or by setting their goals for them. The best youth hunts I have seen is when I tell the dads to stay in the truck, most parents are in to big of a hurry and that is the worst kind of pressure there is.

I would gladly help a couple youths this coming youth season, I will put them in the Refuge by a food plot and let them pick a deer. :thumb:


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

pretty GREEDY of the old timers if you ask me. At that age you would think they have shot enough birds by now to be a little more laid back towards the whole outlook on hunting.


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

In MN, kids can hunt small game and waterfowl at any age under 12, without hunters safety and without a license, but they must be with a licensed adult(except on Youth Waterfowl Day, when the adult doesn't need a license, this is the whole idea behind this day) . When they are 12, they must possess hunters safety certificate and buy a license to hunt, and they can then hunt big game and turkeys. My dad was unaware of this when I was little, so I started at age 12, and am now 19 and love hunting and the outdoors. My brother, on the other hand, has three duck seasons under his belt and he is only 11. A lot of parental guidance has led to my brother and I becoming very interested in the outdoors. My brother is still very little and a kid, so if he is tired or doesn't feel well, he gets to stay home in the morning, but this doesn't happen very often. :lol:


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## Bigdog (Aug 13, 2003)

For MN big game I think the child has to be accompanied by an adult (meaning being next to them not 100 yds away) until they are 14.

These two older fellows and 2 others paddled around on a public lake to keep ducks from landing in the girls decoys. I would expect there were some verbal exchanges. They were not fishing. Sure the father could have gone elswhere but they were already set-up and hunting. That is the purpose of the anti-harrasment laws, protect the law abiding and allow a fun experience.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Devils advocate here but there could be two sides to everything. Maybe those old men owned the lake or leased the lake or had exclusive permission or were told to guard it by the owner of the lake. Who was their first is not known. Then their is the old way of respecting your elders, they may have been there along time.

More than likely the lake is right beside town and neither party wants to go very far to recreate. It's pretty crappy of old men to pick on little girls but on the other hand it is pretty crappy for little girls to pick on old men too.

I still say with 10,000 lakes you think there would be room for the young and old to play.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

buckseye,
You just don't give up do you......I think you need to "Go jump in a Lake".


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

Mn Outdoor News has an article from Hoppes' side of it and they state that they own the land that surrounds 3/4 of the lake and that they were scouting for their season.Ron Hoppe stated "The weird thing about it was, we didn't break any laws," "The judge admitted we didn't break any law, but we broke the spirit of the law"
It also goes on to say they were paddling around the lake wearing bright clothiing, never got within 150 yds of the hunters and that it was the "youth hunters and their mentors in motorized boat that came past us in thousand dollar boats and hollered to get of the lake"
The two other men were found not guilty because the judge said "They showed remorse and we didn't"

There always will be controversy about the youth season, but come on, scouting whether legal or not wouldn't that get the birds moving around more for a good hunt? Sometimes when I'm lake hunting I wish someone would paddle around just to get birds moving a little.
Not taking sides anyway just reporting what was printied in the News.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

As long as we are allowed to have our own opinions I guess I'll always have mine, not someone elses. When I hunt close to town this exact same thing happens to me all the time. I just use patience and the intruders generaly leave.

I say they better get used to the competion we all see when out hunting these days or they will not be around very long. I'm not siding with anyone just maybe more forgiving than most.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

fieldhunter... way to cold this time of year but it is definitly a nice thought.(coacacabana here I come)  make that Havasu, way to many women in Rio


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## PJ (Oct 1, 2002)

I think that those two guys are ********. The future of hunting depends on encouraging kids to hunt, not discouraging them. I personally participated in the MN youth season when I was younger and had a similar expereince, on a private lake. Only the guy, in a friggin canoe didn't know that there was a youth day and thought that my sister and a where poaching. After we explained to him he left, and we finally got some shooting later in the afternoon. I try to get all my younger cousins and friends who do not hunt envolved.

Take a kid hunting today and you won't have to hunt the streets for them tomarrow.


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