# Deer Gun



## Scotty Dog

I need to get a rifle that can easily kill a deer but dosen't have much recoil , and has plenty of ammo available. What do you guys think I should buy ?


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## R y a n

Scotty Dog said:


> I need to get a rifle that can easily kill a deer but dosen't have much recoil , and has plenty of ammo available. What do you guys think I should buy ?


.243 Caliber. nothing more...

plenty of cheap ammo at every sporting goods store, good gun with light recoil, many brands/models available cheaply.

'Nuff said.

Ryan


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## Bore.224

Yes the .243, dont forget about the 30-30 winchester or maybe even a .44 Mag rifle!!


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## mossy512

.243
.270
30-30
.25-06
.260
.280
Plus Reminton has their new Manged recoil ammo for the 30-30, .270, .30-06, .7mm Reminton Mag.
Hope this helps. :sniper:


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## SDHandgunner

Ben Elli said:


> Scotty Dog said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need to get a rifle that can easily kill a deer but dosen't have much recoil , and has plenty of ammo available. What do you guys think I should buy ?
> 
> 
> 
> .243 Caliber. nothing more...
> 
> plenty of cheap ammo at every sporting goods store, good gun with light recoil, many brands/models available cheaply.
> 
> 'Nuff said.
> 
> Ryan
Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better myself !

With the right bullets put in the right place the .243 will kill all the Deer you want to kill. I use 95gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips in my Ruger .243, and since I have started using this bullet 3 Whitetails have dropped with 3 shots.

Larry


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## Scotty Dog

Whats the difference between the .243 and the .270 ?


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## joshua.jeffreys

For the 05 season i got a new Browning A-Bolt in the 7mm mag. cal. and it is an all around great riffle. I like it because it has low recoil, very flat shooting and accurate and it is light. I used the new Federal Fusion round with 150 grain and it done the job. I harvested my best buck ever and two does and they all fell with one shot. This riffle may seem a little much but if you are ever faced with a 300 plus yard shot you will be glad you have it. Take care, Josh


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## Fossilman

Yes-a 243........................


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## Scotty Dog

I have narrowed it down between the 7mm , 243 and the 308.
:sniper:


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## HonkerExpress

300 wsm, does the trick, and you get the extra range without the recoil of the 300 mag. Just my two cents. I have a 300 wsm and I love the gun. Enough recoil to realize its there, and the added yardage helps out. And if you ever decide to go elk/moose/bear, would be totally set. Nothing bad about 243's, but I like the ability to "dial Long Distance" .lol. Laters.


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## bwnelson

The chambering of the deer gun is just about the last thing you should be worrying about.

In modern firearms, if the rifle is bored anywhere from 6mm to 9mm (.243 Winchester to .35 Whelan) you have the makings of a reasonable deer gun.

First thing to worry about is to get a rifle you like, that fits you, that isn't too heavy or too light. Go to a gun store, work bolts, kick tires and find the one that feels "right".

I guarantee you do not need a special whiz bang magnum with a NASA stock and the Hubble scope to put a whitetail in the freezer.

The idea that a person "needs" a particular firearm to kill a deer is just marketing. The "wanting so bad it becomes a need" a particular firearm just to kill a deer is, on the other hand, completely natural and part of being a gun owner. So sort your needs from need/wants and go accordingly.

Col. Whelan said "choosing a 30-06 is never a mistake" ... OTOH choosing a 30-06 is kinda boring. So, I'd suggest find a rifle that fits you and is chambered in some cartridge based on the same case as the 30-06, .308 or 7x57.

Bolt actions are a great place to start. So buy any bolt (except a Rem 710) in any cartridge based on the three great cases, buy the best 4x, 6x, or 3-9x scope you can afford and start figuring out which load your rifle likes best.

If you are on a budget, you can't go wrong with a Stevens 200 (.243, .25-06, 270, 7-08, 308, 30-06) in the $250-$300 range. For scopes, I see a flyer on my desk that Midway USA has K6 Weaver scopes for $125.00. Avoid "package deals" that combine rifle and the scope. The scopes are rarely very good.

Good luck in your search and realize you don't need a magnum anything for a deer.


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## Fossilman

Scotty Dog said:


> I need to get a rifle that can easily kill a deer but dosen't have much recoil , and has plenty of ammo available. What do you guys think I should buy ?


Recoil-Why are ya' getting a 7mm then,that rifle will knock your hat right off if not shot right...(ha ha ha)Just like some 06's and 300's..........I don't care what anyone says!!!!!


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## DrHenley

Scotty Dog said:


> I need to get a rifle that can easily kill a deer but dosen't have much recoil , and has plenty of ammo available. What do you guys think I should buy ?


30-30
45 Colt
44 Mag
7.62x39
357 Mag

The 6.8 SPC is not widely available yet, but it is an excellent low recoil deer cartridge. I have a 15" Encore Pistol barrel in 6.8, and it is even pleasant to shoot in a pistol.

Some that are not as widely available, but are excellent low recoil deer cartriges:

250 Savage (my daughter uses this one)
7-30 Waters
41 Mag
38-55
35 Remington
6.5x55
257 Roberts

And moving up into 308 class cartridges that can be fairly heavy recoilers in an ultralight rifle, but are mild if the rifle is heavy enough:

243 Win
260 Rem (highly underrated)
7mm-08 Rem (my son uses this one)
308 Win
7x57


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## Horsager

.308. There is nothing else that has so much DIRT CHEAP FMJ practice ammo available, and a 150gn in a normal weight rifle is downright pleasent.


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## Jiffy

Horsager.....you're so smart!!!! :wink: :beer:

I knew there was a reason I liked you. :lol:


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## MossyMO

.308 is great combination of ammo price and long range accuracy. But in a centerfire 30 caliber, 7.62 X 39 is dirt cheap and can be a blast. Throw on a 30 round clip and you have yourself a party !!!


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## Jiffy

mossy, you dont need a 30 round clip if you hit them on the first shot......  8)


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## MossyMO

But we do now someone who does !!!


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## Horsager

For the 7.62x39 to become a truly viable "deer cartrige" we'd need to see a factory bolt action that would shoot surplus ammo reasonably well. Ruger tried, Charles Daly and CZ are trying currently with limited success, Interarms imported a mini-mark X, but so far the idea hasn't caught on. It really should, it's basically a 30-30 with pointy bullets, but it just doesn't stick. Maybe the cartrige needs to be renamed to something that doesn't sound like a military cartrige. I wonder if the .223 would have the same popularity if it were called the 5.56x45? Or how about the 308 if it were a 7.62x51? I think the 7.62x39 could be "re-released" onto the American sporting market as a .308 short and be much more widely accepted than it is now. Get the gun writers to do a couple hundred articles with it and there you go.

Still for a combination of cheap ammo and a good ND deer rifle, the 308 gets my nod.

:sniper:

Jiffy, notice the sniper smiley can't be me because the rifle doesn't jump up two feet off the bipods and bash the shooter in the cheek!!


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## Greenhunter

Hey that .243 is the ticket for deer. But so is the .25-06! long range, big thump, and accurate too. Either one could be considered for the criteria you mentioned.

This ain't rocket science, anything 6mm and bigger will whack em', stack em' and pack em'


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## mossy512

Hey guys, I don't know about where you're from but just about all surplus ammo is FMJ. Although its fun to play with while just shooting, but here in KY the FMJ is illegal to hunt with.


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## Horsager

mossy512, like KY, we can't use FMJ for hunting big game either, that's why I stated that there is tons of cheap FMJ ammo available for PRACTICE. I don't recall anyone suggesting the fmj for hunting, just a cheap plinking alternative you don't get with most other calibers.


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## Jiffy

> Jiffy, notice the sniper smiley can't be me because the rifle doesn't jump up two feet off the bipods and bash the shooter in the cheek!!


Yeah, I don't know how you shoot that thing so accurately!! My .300 beats me up too but yours is insane. :lol:


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## T.R.

I'm new to this forum. I live near Spearfish, South Dakota which is 14 miles from the Wyoming line and 32 miles from the Montana line. The terrain and animals are the same; these borders were drawn by somebody in Washington DC with a straight edge.

30-30 carbine is my top choice for mulies in the foothills. Hits hard out to about 175 yards or so and no mulie can stand up to a well placed 170 grain softnose.

.243 slide action is a bit rare around here. For the most part, this is bolt action country. But I have deep affection for this .243 rifle because it always shoots straight and has plenty of power to reach way out there to down any mulie or 'lope that ever walked. Don't believe the anti-243 nonsense that every forum seems to attract.

Good huntin' to you.
TR


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## clampdaddy

I'd go with a 25-06. I love mine. It fills the gap between the 243 and 270.


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## davy

I always beleived that one should stay in the 30 caliper rifle . It will give you the hitting power you need to do the job . Can also use it for other bigger animals . Moose and Bear .[/quote]


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## T.R.

Remington now offers Reduced Recoil ammo for many cartridges. This is likely the best way to make a .308 or 30-06 even more versatile.
TR


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## Possumpup

If you want low recoil, shoot a semiautomatic. If you want to go super light, shoot a FAL in .308, you can tune the ejection down so freaken low you would think you were shooting a .22. I would suggest a .270 BAR. Ammo is everywhere and the recoil is light. In Maine, you get many close up shots, so we tend to use partition or bonded core bullets to make sure the the bullet expands properly. I have shot so many deer with .30-06 and .270's at lest than 40 yards that either splinterd to smithereens or went in and out .30 caliber. NOT that I didnt find the deer, but I just like to flatten them or get them leaking profusely. No second shots if you know what I mean. A 270 with some scirroco bullets and you will be a happy hunter.

Dave


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## gooseman14

I'm with T.R. I have a .243 slide action and I too have deep affection for it. I have poked deer as far as 400 yds and If it is a big ole buck that takes a few extra shots you'll have the fastest action you can get without worrying about it jamming up.


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## Remington 7400

.243, .308, .7mm-08, .30-30, .44 mag carbine


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## Meatco1

Good Lord! Am I the only one here who truly respects the old .257 Roberts?

Terrific caliber, more punch the the .243, less recoil than the 25-06, can shoot bullets from 75-120 grains, can take down any deer in the woods.

JMO,

Richard


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## OkieYodler

It depends on what you consider too much kick. I'm 15 and weigh in at a "gargantuan(spelling?)" 100lbs. A .30-06 doesn't bother me, and has been a proven round since...well I guess 1906. A .243 was the first caliber that came to mind, then a couple others. Here's my order of choices:

.25-06
.270
.30-06
.243
.308
7mm mag

The .25-06 is a very underestimated round that is no doubt qualified to kill a deer. The .270 is also a great round, comparable to the .30-06. The .30-06 is a proven classic. The .243 is a very light recoil gun with good statistics. The .308 is based off of the .30-06, so you can hardly go wrong there. The 7mm mag has more recoil than the .30-06, but will give incredibly long range capabilities. Another good caliber is the .30-30, which is the best brush gun you can find. What you buy shouldn't only meet your needs, but the land's needs as well! Hope this helps a little!


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## Greenhunter

Okieyodler--- you're pretty smart for 15 years old. I'm impressed !


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## bwnelson

Meatco,

Anybody who knows anything 'bout anything respects Bob. Except Chuck Norris. He downright fears the Bob. The thought of getting whacked by a 100 gr TSX from a Bob makes his leg shake like a kindergartner soloing at a school christmas pagent ... including the yellow trickle.

Back to things that really do matter ... why do we (and myself among this) immediately recite the chambering when the "what kind of gun for ..." question comes up? The chambering is the last thing to worry about!

FWIW my order of importance (and this is a work in progress) is:

Optics
Barrel
Action
Bullet 
Chambering

How would the rest of you order these ... and (especially) why?


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## Remington 7400

> The .25-06 is a very underestimated round that is no doubt qualified to kill a deer. The .270 is also a great round, comparable to the .30-06. The .30-06 is a proven classic.  :beer: The .243 is a very light recoil gun :lol: with good ballistics. The .308 is based off of the .30-06, so you can hardly go wrong there. The 7mm mag has lots more recoil than the .30-06, but will give incredibly long range capabilities in the hands of an experienced rifleman. Another good caliber is the .30-30, is the best brush gun you can find :eyeroll: . However the .45/70, .444 Marlin, and .35 Whelen all hit harder and put stuff down faster in the brush. What you buy shouldn't only meet your needs, but the land's needs as well! Hope this helps a little!


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## Gohon

> FWIW my order of importance (and this is a work in progress) is:
> 
> Optics
> Barrel
> Action
> Bullet
> Chambering


I don't understand your logic here. You buy a scope, then find a barrel it looks nice on, provided it is on the action you want, then buy bullets before selecting the chambering? No joke, I don't follow you here so I guess I'm missing something. Seems to me it should be ........

Chambering
Action
Barrel
Optics
bullets

That's pretty much the order I select a gun and setup.


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## jeep_guy_4x4

The Gut-Wrenching Nightmare of Caliber Worship

There is a trend of touting calibers, cartridges, and gauges for their own sake. Not based on any empirical evidence or scientific basis, but emotional knee-jerk attempted defense of what we own or, more likely, just bought. All too often, what is attempted to be defended is indefensible.

The optimum caliber cannot not be precisely defined anymore than we can define the optimum cubic centimeter cylinder is for a motor vehicle. Many variations have worked, and worked well. Beyond successful completion of a task, there is little else that matters.

Part of the human condition is that we make an emotional investment in our hardware. We allow a caliber, cartridge, or specific firearm to define us rather than the other way around. It is understandable, as many of us are happy to say we are a "Bud-man," a "Harley-man," a "Swaro kind of guy," or a variety of other tenuous ways of describing nothing in particular.

Read More....

http://www.chuckhawks.com/caliber_worship.htm


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## jeep_guy_4x4

The original post asked / requested info on selecting a rifle... Not a chamber...

I choose my last rifle based on...

Fit...
Balance....
Comfort....
Weight...
Action....

After that the rifle I choose could be chambered from .223 - .460

All I had to do at this point is select how I wanted it chambered...


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## Gohon

Scotty Dog said:


> I need to get a rifle that can easily kill a deer but dosen't have much recoil , and has plenty of ammo available. What do you guys think I should buy ?


The word chamber is often used to relate to caliber and the OP was certainly asking for advice on that.


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## Albertahunter

if you want low recoil, shoot a bigger calibre with low recoil ammo, and then when you feel comfortable shoot full loads. i am 15 about 5'8 160 pounds and my first gun is a remington 700 7mm rem mag and i can shoot is without a problem, i quess it depends on how the person reacts to recoil and fit, but to use a 243 at longer ranges you should be a pretty good shot because there isnt allot room for error there. Where i hunt my bar minimum would be 270 with good bullets, but then again i also hunt elk and moose which is why i chose a 7mm mag.


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## jeep_guy_4x4

I disagree with Gohon's argument concerning my post. I do not see the word chamber or caliber in the original post....

I do agree with bwnelsons post.... find a rifle thats fits...

I firmly believe that rifle design... comfort & weight are of greater concern then the actual caliber.... It has been my experince that rifle's of different designs distribute varing degree's of felt recoil.... In the past I have found rifle's that fit well distribute recoil better...

Here is a link to a website with a weath of great information...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2d.rifles.htm


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## Gohon

jeep_guy_4x4, it's not a argument. Asking about a rifle that will kill a deer and available ammo is in my opinion asking about the caliber/chambering needed. Important as they may be but weight, comfort and fit has never killed anything. If a person wants a Elk rifle and they find a rifle that meets their design... comfort & weight requirements but the only chambering available is a .223, do they buy it anyway? Of course not........ you decide on the caliber and then you look for the rifle that meets the design, weight and fit in that caliber.


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## Cleankill47

You guys know what I did? I went to the pawn shop looking for a rifle. I must've been there about three hours looking, holding, cocking, etc. Here's my process:

I told him I had $200 to spend, and I wanted a rifle, so he pointed out the ones in that range on the rack.

I looked at each one, held it, and tested to see if it felt "right".

If it passed that, I checked the loading mechanism and the chamber, and if they looked good I opened the chamber, tilted it up to the lights, turned the gun around, and looked down the barrel. If it was bright and shiny, I moved on to check the rest of the gun for rust, discolorations, etc.

Caliber was actually the last thing I considered. I figured if everything else felt and looked okay then I could make it work for what I wanted it for. Plus, I knew that as long as the gun was .223 or bigger, I had a gun that would do well.

$212, plus accessories later, here's what I ended up with, and it'll be with me the rest of my life if I have any say in it:










Marlin 336 lever action in 30-30 Win, older model _without_ the crossbolt safety, which I thought was great, plus the gold trigger.

Sure, I'll probably wind up getting more deer guns in the future, but this one is more than capable of doing the job I need it to do.


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## deathwind

.308 gets my vote.The .243 is ok but a little on the light side in my opinion.


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## caribukiller

You should get a 22-250 it's big enough to kill a caribu i've even heard of a moose being dropped by one.


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## Plainsman

You can kill deer with a 22-250, and I have shot 11 deer with one, but it isn't a caliber I would recommend. A native American killed two grizzlies in Canada with a 22 long rifle too, but if you use it as a primary weapon for bear sooner than later you will be deposited around the forest in little piles. 
If you don't want to carry much weight and need a light rifle go with a 243, 260, 257 Roberts etc. If you don't mind carrying a little weight which will dampen recoil get a heavier rifle in 7-08, 308, 270 etc. 
Many rifles will fill the bill for you. It also depends on the range you will shoot. I just sold a Winchester model 94 in 44 mag and it will knock deer very well to 100 yards.
Someone mentioned on another post about Roy Weatherby killing many African animals with his favorite caliber the 257 Weatherby. The author also mentioned it was sort of a stunt to promote the then new chambering. 
I couldn't afford my own rifle when I used a 22-250. If your going to buy something and you intend to be a serious deer hunter go 243 minimum.


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## huntin1

You said that you have it narrowed to 7mm, 243, or 308.

If you need something with light recoil, go 243.

IMO though the best choice would be the *308*, lots of cheap surplus ammo available. If you get into reloading or can afford premium factory ammo you will be hard pressed to find something with more accuracy potential than the 308.

(Shameless plug) I would recommend the most accurate out-of-the-box rifle available, *SAVAGE*  

:beer:

huntin1


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## omegax

Whatever you feel comfortable shooting enough to get good with. I frequent a couple of military gun collector boards and there always seems to be an argument whether 7.62x39 is "enough"... truth is, that if you can hit with it pretty much anything is enough.

Example: They say that 303 British has killed more elephants than any other caliber. Though, I don't think I could ever be a good enough shot to try that one for myself...

Practice practice practice... The difference between an amateur and a pro is that an amateur practices until he gets it right, and a pro practices until he can't get it wrong.


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## bwnelson

Gohon ... nothing personal, just directed to you because of your participation:

This is my reasoning behind the order of the components on the deer hunting rig.

1. Optics: Assuming this is NOT an iron sighted rig, and the vast majority of deer guns are scoped, you cannot kill what you can not see. Also a well made and properly adjusted scope is the most critical component of accurate shooting. Quality optics are essential to target acquisition and bulet placement. An old gun buying adage is "spend as much on the scope as you did on the rifle". These days there are good to excellent scopes at reasonable prices, so that may not exactly apply, but once you know your budget and likely range of hunting conditions, STARTING with choosing the scope is a realistic option.

2. Barrel: This encompasses a number of topics as the barrel length and taper will dictate the handling qualities of the rifle. For example my "26 IOD" Browning 78 Hi Wall with a 26" octagonal barrel is an ideal dedicated "beanfield/stand hunting" and prairie stalking rifle. I used it antelope hunting in South Dakota this fall. (However, because I haven't changed the optics from the old 3-12x44 Burris Signature it came with, it is NOT my preferred field/stand rifle because other rigs of mine have better low light optics). The "26 IOD" has different applications than "Shillelagh" my 18" mannlicher stocked brush gun, or the "SUCKS PB&J" Remington 700 mountain rifle that I prefer for extended carrying hunting ... that preference is dictated by the weight savings from the thin, moderate length barrel.

Also, assuming you can see the target and the cross hairs remain aligned, the ultimate accuracy of the rifle will be largely dictated by the quality and condition of the barrel. You have to see the target in order to ... put the crosshairs where you want the bullet to go ... and the tube needs to be straight to ... HIT THE CRITTER ...

3. Action: Bolt, Lever, Semi Auto, Pump, Single Shot, etc. you can hit the animal with any of these so it is less important than either the scope or barrel. However it will also greatly affect the ergonomics, handling characteristics, weight, and naturally, operation of the rifle. How important are follow up shots? Does the owner greatly prefer a long or short action bolt gun? Left or right handed shooter? Tang safety, 3 position Model 70 style, or 2 position Remington 700, shotgun style trigger
guard or exposed hammer?

The action style and features effect the shooters ability to use the rifle to the potential of the barrel and optics.

4. Bullet: As I posted before, virtually any modern centerfire rifle is going to put down a deer at reasonable ranges WITH THE PROPER BULLET.

Two major sub parts here ... Size and Construction. I am of the opinion that bullet construction is more important than size (either caliber or weight). After all, we are talking centerfire rifles because we prefer to shoot deer with modern bullets rather than musket balls. Furthermore the design of the bullet effects the accuracy more than it's size (have to hit it to kill it) and the design determines the range of terminal effects (a solid bullet will pass through without expanding, an x bullet will expand while (theoretically) maintaining 100% of its weight before usually passing through , a cup and core will expand and shed a portion of it's mass causing secondary trauma while sometimes passing through, a prairie dog varmint bullet is designed to break apart completly without passing through, etc.)

My personal choice regarding construction is I prefer a TSX unless something else is more accurate or just as accurate and will do the job at anticipated ranges with an economic benefit. (Shillelagh uses 139 gr Hornady Interlocks because they are awfully accurate, will kill deer like crazy at brush gun ranges, and cost $15-18/100 instead of $25-30/50.) Generally speaking, I would not select a caliber for big game hunting unless it was produced in TSX's. The characteristics of TSX's allow smaller bore rifles to kill one class up with less recoil. I can like that.

Size of the bullet also is more important than the case that holds the powder that pushes it. Deer are killed by penetration and expansion - not powder burns. Construction matters more than size to me. I'd rather shoot a 6 - 7 mm tsx than a .30 caliber lead bullet of most any weight. If not able to utilize TSX's due to an extreme copper shortage and having to rely on nothing but cup and core lead bullets, bore diameter and bullet weight would matter more to me than the brass casing. For example I'd be deciding between a class of cases in the .257, .264, .277, .284, .308 range because of the bullets available in that caliber, and then decide between a 7-08, 7x57, 280, 7 mm Mag, etc. instead of deciding on shooting a 30-06 vs a 7 mag vs a 270 ...

5. Chambering: The last thing to worry about is 30-06 vs 308. "243's suck", "The 270 is the ultimate all around rifle", "You need a 300 Win Mag as a MINIMUM for elk". That crap sells alot of magazines and eats up a ton of internet bandwith. The "Deer Rifle" is SO much more than the chambering. There are an unreal number of chamberings between 6 mm (.243) and 9 mm (.357/.358) that will push a bullet out of a rifle to kill a deer. Arguments are made daily that with the rest of the factors in place (Optics, Barrel, Action, Bullet) that calibers from .223 to .50 are appropriate deer rifles.

The bottom line comes to when deciding to get a deer hunting rig, so little is gained by telling somebody they MUST get a 30-06, 270, 243, etc. In fact, the cartridge selection should be the LAST thing on anybody's mind.

Unless you want to start a pissing contest or sell magazines.


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## Greenhunter

not one of these guys can tell you they are undergunned with a .308 Win with a 150-165 gr. round. It flat out is a meat-getter. Get one and you may desire other rifles later for nothing more than variety, but you will be hard pressed to sell or trade your .308 for something that kills deer better.


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## Gettinbirdy

I own a Remington Model 700 .308. This is by far the most accurate shooting rifle I've ever shot. I haven't shot over 500 yds at a target yet but have tried stretching it out to this distance. I've shot 6 inch groups at this distance in a 10 MPH wind.

I'm definately not a marksman, but I know my rifle. Also, this shooting was done with a bipod while laying in the back of my truck bed.

It's a heavier rifle with a floated barrel and synthetic stock. It's actually pretty the same model some police departments use for their sniper rifle. The only thing it needs is a higher end scope.

Long story short, I would definately recommend the .308 in a Remington Model 700 synthetic.


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## Gohon

> In fact, the cartridge selection should be the LAST thing on anybody's mind.


Well, you have a right to your opinion. I consider the above statement to be backwards so we disagree. When I reach into my gun safe to select a gun for a particular hunt I select by caliber needed......... not how pretty it looks or how well it may fit or if it has a $1200 dollar scope attached. You can make the gun fit and you can change out optics and you can select proper bullets but the caliber must fit the job at hand. Other wise by using your criteria a 22 hornet meeting steps 1-4 would make a good Elk caliber. Just common sense. I agree that more often than not a caliber recommendation is usually made because of personal affection or what someone themselves actually has and in reality there will be several caliber's that will fill the bill. I also don't believe I made a recommendation to the OP as to what caliber he should select. I simply don't agree how you and one other poster goes about choosing a rifle for hunting. Go buy a rifle you like because it fits you well, has a good barrel and a high end scope on it, then sit down and make a list of what can be is hunted with the caliber you ended up with............ that is what you are saying........... but on the other hand I would also point out that your statement of "Generally speaking, I would not select a caliber for big game hunting unless it was produced in TSX's" seems to be self contradicting because you do consider caliber first after all. Might be missing something here but sorry....... that's not for me.


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## huntin1

Oh, I forgot to mention, if you do go with the Savage, DON'T get one with the scope and mounts included, they are really cheesy. Get a good set of mounts and the best scope you can afford. I like Sightron SII or SIII series, and the Nikon Buckmaster scopes. Leupold is good too, but the quality of their lower end scopes (Rifleman, VX-I) is really not that good. You can get higher quality at a better price with Sightron or Nikon.

huntin1


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## bwnelson

Gohon,

Your posts are generally well thought out and I appreciate your ability to agree to disagree. Perhaps this will help you get where I am coming from:

You do recall that my posts have created the range of "deer cartridges" as most anything between 6mm (.243/.244) and 9mm (.347/.358) right?

Within those parameters most any modern centerfire rifle will be a pretty good deer gun, depending on the preferences of the user.

.22 Hornet as an elk rifle? That idea is going outside the premise (That most anything between a .243 Winchester and a .35 Whelan makes a good DEER cartridge) to an illogical extreme. HOWEVER ... I wouldn't feel ridiculous hunting deer with a good .223 and a 53 gr TSX (within it's limitations) ... even though it is well out of the base range of "deer cartridges". I can't see myself hunting a deer with factory .223 standard stuff or surplus fmj. Could be talked into maybe trying it with a .223 partition load, but would not like it as much and certainly would not be a deer gun of choice.

I am fortunate to have a modest stable of deer rifles. Caliber is about the last thing I think about when I'm going to take one out of the safe to go deer hunting. Here is my thought process:

5 Rifles in the Safe.

"26IOD" Browning 78 High Wall Single Shot, 25-06, 26" Octogon Barrel, 3-12 Burris Signature, Wt 9.75 lbs. Load: 100 TSX, 3200 fps chrony. Sighted on @ 250. Last 3 100 yd groups: .58, .39, .81

"Shillelagh" FN Mauser Bolt Mannlicher Stock, 7x57, 18" orig barrel, 1.5-6x42 Sightron SII, Wt 8.5 lbs. Load: 139 Interlock, 2650 fps chrony (has given 2800 but could be chrony issues). Sighted on @ 200. Last 4 100 yd groups: .76, .45, 1.39, .89; 2.24 at 200yds.

"SUCKS PB&J" Rem 700 Mountain Rifle Bolt, .280 Rem, 22" mountain barrel, 2.5-8 Leupold VX-III, Wt 7.7 lbs. Load: 140 TSX, 2985 fps or 139 Interlock, 2880 fps. Last 2 100 yd groups (Interlock) 1.02, 1.28; 1.23 (at 200). Barrel heats fast, groups are almost always 2 close then a flyer about that opens the group to double or triple.

"Donor" Win 70 XTR Featherweight Bolt, 6.5x55, 22" featherweight barrel, 6x42 Sightron SII, Wt 8.1 lbs. Load: 130 TSX, 2925 fps or 140 Interlock, 2650 fps. Last 3 100 yd groups .72 (TSX), .57 (TSX), 1.08 (Interlock). Sighted in with Interlocks at 200 yards. (Loaning to a friend after deer opener and wanted a supply of inexpensive practice/hunting bullets to send with them).

"Project" Spanish 93 Mauser (built Loewe 1896) 1950's sporter, 7x57, 24" original barrel (cut and crowned from 29"), original sights, Wt. ~ 7 lbs. Load: Unknown, have a couple unopened boxes of Winchester 145 gr powerpoints in the garage.

Each and every one of the chamberings and bullet combinations are sovereign deer medicine. No worries with any of them. So, in my safe the chambering is the LAST thing to worry about when going deer hunting.

This weekend I am hunting the Minnesota opener south of Bagley. The area is wooded with some breaks and openings. Anticipated shots are 50 to 250 yards. Will be still hunting with possible drives in small patches of cover. What rifle to take?

First, eliminate the project gun because it has no optics and I've never fired it. Thinking it could make a neat unregulated rifle someday.

Next, all rifles have suitable optics for the job at hand. I don't expect ultra low light conditions, each rifle is sighted in. Of them all I kind of prefer the straight 6 power on the Donor but they are close enough to not matter.

I'm not going to be climbing mountains but the barrel weight (and for the entire rig) will matter for handiness in the woods at the end of the day. All rifles shoot well enough for the conditions. Weight of the 26IOD will disqualify it for this application, just too darn heavy in comparison. Donor, Shillelagh, and SUCKS PB&J are still options ... But since this will be a woods hunt I think the compact Shillelagh gets the nod. The 3/4 pound difference with the SUCKS or 1/2 pound with Donor isn't going to matter much and the handiness of the package is why I'm taking that rifle.

Now if I was planning on watching a field until last light, I'd be using the SUCKS because that scope is best in the lowest light conditions. That could change when I find different glass for the 26IOD. But maybe not, while the SUCKS doesn't make the best 3 shot groups in the bunch, it does always put the first shot in the same place.

Almost all modern centerfire rifle cartridges between 6 mm and 9 mm will cleanly take a deer out to 200 yards and most well beyond that. Within that range the rest of the package is more important than the cartridge selected.


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## Gohon

bwnelson, I don't disagree at all with how you will be going about picking out the gun for your hunt. I would/will be doing something very similar. But, I think what has been lost here is the OP is purchasing a gun so his option to select from a variety of choices does not exist as he will be limited to only one choice. Long range, short range, big deer, small deer, still hunt, tree stand............ that one gun has to do it all. Good luck on your hunt.


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## bwnelson

Gohon,

Our friend has a virtually infinite number of choices. My point about selecting from the rigs in the safe was that the particular cartridge chambering is the least of his worries.

If I am picking an all around deer rifle I first want something that will work with a good scope, let's say a 3-9x42 Sightron SII (just because they are decent glass on sale for $189). Tho I like a 2.5-8 or 2-7 Leupy's on short actions, so keep that in mind if the buyer decides on a shorty. Yes, I am also subscribing to the "near perfection" theory of a straight 6x42, Sightron, Nikon, or Leupy.

I say that first because the glass eliminates top ejecting Model 94's.

Then find a rifle that feels right. Barrel, balance, weight, etc. No way can you get that off the Internet. Have to hold them. Find a length of pull that fits your arms in hunting clothes (thumb knuckle should be ~ 1.5" from nose tip in shooting position). Look for something with a good recoil pad if you may be sensitive to such things (I have a reconstructed rt. shoulder and am dang sensitive to long term recoil, tho PAST pads sure help from the bench). I make sure the safety is where I like it, am partial to M70 Style but that is just me. Really like the feel of Remingtons and can get over the safety because of it.

The point is if somebody goes out having decided to get a "290 Hummerwhacker" they are going to pass by some mighty nice rifles in perfectly capable cartridges while looking for a "290 Hummerwhacker". Even if OUTDOOR FIELD & STREAM LIFE has just run an article saying that the "290 Hummerwhacker" is the greatest cartridge ever, many other cartridges will do the job better if chambered in a rifle package that fits the hunter and the purpose.

Of course I wouldn't think of purchasing a "290 Hummerwhacker" until Barnes makes a .291 TSX.


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## Plainsman

I have no specific order in which I choose a new rig for hunting. Sometimes I want a specific rifle, sometimes I have a specific cartridge in mind, sometimes a specific action. I purchased three rifles in the last couple of months. One was a 44 mag lever action. I already had one, but I like the looks of octagon barrels so purchased a Marlin model 94 in one of those cowboy action configurations. I also wanted a small caliber tack driver with good range for prairie dogs so I had a hard time between the Remington XR100 Rangemaster and that new ??????? Savage with the left hand ejection with right hand bolt. I purchased the Remington which turned out to be the worst out of the box rifle I have ever purchased. It started out 4 inch groups at 100 yards, but now I have it under 0.3 inches. Last I still wanted a Savage Accutrigger, and I wanted a light coyote rig. So I purchased a Savage Weather Warrior. 
So I purchased my first rifle just for the looks, the second for accuracy, and the third for weight. I think every rifle I have purchased has been for different reasons. I have some models that are the same, but in different calibers. My only advise is if you want a few rifles buy them now because quality control degrades every year. If you want to customize buy Remington, if you want accuracy without spending any money at all buy Savage. Caliber depends on your hunting habitat (forest, brush, open prairie etc), and your techniques (stand hunting, still hunting, long range etc).
Scopes: I have Bausch and Lomb, Leupold, Sightron, Nikon, Bushnell, BSA, Tasco, Simmons, and I may be forgetting something. I really disliked my Nikon Monarch and after four years dumped it. Lately I have been so impressed with Nikon Buckmasters 4.5 to 14 with side parallax and mil-dot that I purchased four of them. I see through it better than any of my other scopes, and it holds zero under the recoil of a very light 300 WSM.
I guess there is no right or wrong way to choose a new rig. We all have different priorities.


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