# setter losing weight



## mmartin (Oct 12, 2007)

I have a three year old setter that spent his first two years indoors. This spring I put them outside. Its getting cold out now and noticed he seems to be losing weight. He has always been skinny, but now its getting worse. Should I worm him or feed him more? I don't want him to freeze to death so if anybody could give some suggestions to bulk him up would be great.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I also have an English Setter that has dropped about 15 lbs this hunting season. This is the first year this has happened. He is like 3. Took him to the vet, and they said he is fine. I am kinda starting to wonder though. They said because I hunt him so much aka like 4 days a week that he looses his appititte. They when a dog gets worked hard sometimes it takes a day or two for them to want to eat. This is kinda scary though because he has dropped from 65lbs down to like 50 and when he was at 65 they said he looked great, and even alittle below average for weight. most setters aren't that big, but he is built like a brick $hit house. Anyways I to would like to hear the answer to this question I know there are some guys. BOBM that know a ton about dogs I am lost here.

Also does anyone elses dog shake when they bring them home, not only while they are sleeping, but just while they are laying around? It's like he twitches, not only right after a hunt, but even days later? I am starting to wonder if there is something really wrong with him.

ANyone?

Mike


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

It's cold and you're working the dogs heavy. They need more calories. Feed more and find a "performance" food that has more protein and calories than your normal food.

Weight loss this time of year is normal for hunting dogs that are normally fairly sedentary during the rest of the year.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

Trust me this dog has done more than get into shape and loss some weight. New nickname is Somolian dog.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

We switched food, to try and get him something different. The problem is... HE DOESN'T EAT. Tried all of the tricks from putting oil on his food, water hand feeding, putting some peanut butter on it.

Does anyone have any other tricks. 
He has grown up with food out all the time. He eats when he wants, and how much he wants. The problem is he just won't eat it.

Thanks guys
mike


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

One of the cheapest tests is running a fresh stool sample to the vet for a parasite check. Two dogs in our hunting crew had bad worm infections last year, showing weight loss, loss of preformance, etc. Most dogs like at least a few bites of "goodies" off the field and God only knows what they ingest.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I have been thinking that this is what I should do. I have read a few different articles and some say dogs sometimes won't eat for days after a hunt, but IDK I think there is something behind it.

I am going to bring in a sample, I don't want to risk it.

MMartin, sorry for the hijack I was just coming on to post this question, and I thought it was very similar to yours. I think we may have about the same problem. 

Is your dog a English Setter?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

*this post refers to hunt P&Ys question*,

(take the other dog losing weight doing nothing MMARTINS dog to the vet and bring him back inside until you do. Mmartin do you have a real good dog house, the plans in the sticky I put in this forum are available. I can email them to you and they are designed for Minnesota winters) If the dog is healthy start feeding it more a dog burns alot of calories just staying warm when its cold.

*Now for HuntP&Ys question*
Glycogen is the fuel your body needs to do work it is the first choice your muscles will look for, (well really the second any available alchohol will be first choice but I will assume the dog doesn't drink :wink: ).

The next choice of an energy source is body fat, and this is the choice your particular dogs body is having to use because his glycogen stores are depleted.

Replenishment of glycogen stores in his muscles will keep his endurance and energy levels up which in return will help keep his appetite up, and then it follows that his weight will be more stable.

So heres the solution

your dogs is most able to have a large uptake and replenishment of glycogen stores to his muscles if fed within 30 minutes of cessation of exercise. SO Feed him at the truck when you are going to finish hunting him for the day dont wait until when you get home that night.

I use a good quality canned dog food and when I'm done running adog for that day I let him cool off for about 5 minutes so his breathing is normal and hes had some water at the truck, then I give the dog a can of dog food and put him in his crate. Your dog will benefit from this same routine. Do not feed until you are done for the day. You dont want to run a dog on a full belly.

I personally would rest this dog for a week if possible, he sounds over trained I mean physically not commands.

In the evenings when I'm on an extended hunting trip my dogs get another can of dogfood with their normal bowl of kibble ( purina one lamb and rice) and the whole bowl is then filled with warm water and stirred up to encourage them to eat more and to rehydrate.

During the rest of the year they eat kibble dry and what ever they can mooch from me at the table 

hope that helps, until his glycogen stores are full he will not be able to gain weight.

Incidentally this same biology is why the Atkins diet is so effective in humans, deplete your glycogen stores by eating fewer carbs and your body goes to its next choice, bodyfat as its energy source and you lose weight.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

BOBM,

Thanks for the info. He won't eat canned food. I tryed to give him when we tried to switch food, and he wants nothing to do with it. He won't even eat food off the table. Not that he isn't hungry, but he just doesn't know its food I guess. He never has table food I guess is what I am trying to say.

Do you know of any suppliments? Like a bone that has a bunch of vitamins? Something that could help him get some energy replenished?

I guess when I compete, sometimes I have to take Pedialyte.. SP.. to replenish. any ideas?

Thanks Mike


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## mmartin (Oct 12, 2007)

Yes Hunt4P&Y, my dog is an english setter. Health wise he is fine. He has so much energy he never sits still. when he is out of his kennel, he never stops running.My dogs are in a good house, the only problem is that my meat head lab keeps tearing rug off the opening that I am using for a door. Any ideas for a door?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

hunt4P&Y said:


> BOBM,
> 
> Thanks for the info. He won't eat canned food. I tryed to give him when we tried to switch food, and he wants nothing to do with it. He won't even eat food off the table. Not that he isn't hungry, but he just doesn't know its food I guess. He never has table food I guess is what I am trying to say.
> 
> ...


Weird dog wont eat canned food, you might try some other brand if not I would try cooking him a big hamburger put it in a baggie and give that to him at the end of the hunt.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

mmartin said:


> Yes Hunt4P&Y, my dog is an english setter. Health wise he is fine. He has so much energy he never sits still. when he is out of his kennel, he never stops running.My dogs are in a good house, the only problem is that my meat head lab keeps tearing rug off the opening that I am using for a door. Any ideas for a door?


rugs in dog houses and kennels are a good way to end up with a dead dog sooner or later they will chew it and eat it, build a dog house with a separate hall and sleeping area.

You can also buy commecial metal dogs for dog houses


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## dfisher (Oct 12, 2007)

Take him to the vet. A lady friend of mine recently lost a Chessie who went from nearly 90 lbs down to around 70 in the matter of a few days. It turns out, that after blood tests, it had cancer. Have that dog checked out, as it would be best to fight whatever the problem is by knowing what you're up against.

Good luck with your pup,
Dan


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

> Do you know of any suppliments? Like a bone that has a bunch of vitamins? Something that could help him get some energy replenished?


I use Annamet Glycocharge for my dogs when I'll be hunting them for more than a couple days in a row. It's a powder. Pour it on the food, put some water in the bowl and mix it up with my finger until it dissolves. Feed within a half hour of exercise....like Bob said.

But if he won't eat....

You can buy it at Lion Country Supply...www.lcsupply.com
Search Glycocharge and it should pop up.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Tumblebuck,

Thanks for the link. I am going to try one of them, not sure which one yet. I think this will be a good option.

It's not like he is unhealthy, or sick, he just wont eat at times. Other times he will eat. When I tell him we are going hunting he runs to the food dish and starts eating. I guess he is just wierd! :lol:

Dfisher,

I have one Setter that has Cancer. SHe has for about 4 years. Infact the dog with the eating problems was recieved to take the one with cancers spot. She is STILL alive. SHe has amny huge growths. The get big, then burst then go away. The vet told us to keep doing normal things with her, and she will just decide when to lay down.... We still hunt her, just take it really easy on her.

Thanks for all of the input. 
Mike


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Heres what I do for tumors in dogs, I have good luck

Buy the following Vitamins and supplements

E 400 iu 
B complex 
C 1000mg 
A 10,000 iu 
Zinc 50 mg 
Co Q10 150 mg 
Fish oil 1000mg 
selinium 200 mg 
Quercetin 800 mg combined with Bromelain 200mg 
Proanthocyanidin 100mg 
calcium250mg and magnesium 155 mg combined

Purchase them at your local GNC or what ever good health food store is in your area

Buy as many of these in capsule form as possible so you can just open the capsules, then buy a case of canned dog food ( I buy mine at Sams club)

Place one can of food in your wifes blender and empty the contents of the capsules in it then get two spoons and crush the pills that are not capsules and dump them in also ( if you rock the spoons softly it works best when crushing pills to powder rather than just applying a lot of pressure which tends to make them pop out of between the spoons).

Next take a small sissors and open the vit A,E, and fish oil liquid capsules and pour the ingredients in. I feed the dog the capsule skins manually, but that not necessary they just beg for them because of the oil I guess.

Liquify the mixture and feed it once a day to your dog. You should see a big improvement in about two weeks. ( for tumors I do this twice daily for the first 10 days)

This is a wide spectrum antioxidant mix that I have successfully used to cure three dogs of cancerous tumors ( they went away in just about a week to ten days). All three dogs lived years after the treatment one is still hunting with me and is laying at my feet as I type this. Current veterinary medicine offers little help for cancerous tumors in dogs.

The bottom line is the body cures itself and this concoction provides it with the fuel needed to do so. I'm not making any guarantees but it has worked on two of my dogs and one of my friends all of which the vets told us would die soon and lived many heathly years after.

By the way I take this same mix daily, and have for years Sans the can of dog food! . I haven't been sick or had a cold in the last 10 years not once, which is a feat in a houshold with 5 kids in school. IF you take this daily and when you feel a cold coming one immediately up the Vitamin a dosage to 50,000 iu for 2 consecutive days ( do not continue this high Vit A dose any longer than than 2 days, go back to 10,000 iu daily after the two days of high dosage) you will never have a cold or the symptoms will be so minimal as to be no problem.

It seem complicated but the hardest part is convincing your wife to let you use the blender to mix dog food , I just rinse it out with hot water and pour the water over my other dogs food, then put it in the dish washer. She got over it.....


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

BobM.

I feel bad, You already gave me this recipe last year, maybe a couple back. I think this is the reason she is still kicking! :lol:

I guess I never told you thanks, so THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

I hold every word that comes out of your fingers to I high respect!

I can't thank you enough.
Mike


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## setterman (Nov 29, 2007)

hunt4play and mmartin,

While it seems like you have gotten some good info here let me throw in my 2 cents. I've had setters my whole life and just lost my 6 yr old to lymphoma. I originally came to this site for some coyote hunting advice but of course had to check out the bird dog section. I haven't been a member long but again, I've been hunting over setters since i was 14. Don't want either of you to have to loose one befor their time and I hope I can help a bit.

I'll say this right now, #1 and #2 are IMPERATIVE in figuring this problem out. If you follow this advice and still see signs of degrading health you probably better get him back to the vet asap.

#1 Your first move is to bring the dog back inside. Not only is it a less stressful environment, but you will be able to keep a close eye on him. Watch him very closly especially when he lays dow or gets up. Any signs of trouble here?

#2 Nobody wants to hear this one but.... Rest the dog. For more than a day or two! Its tuff especially if you only have one dog but in both situations the dogs need a week or maybe two not only to recover but to rule out fatigue. If they start to get back on a regular eating schedual your dancin', if not you know you have bigger problems.

#3 Any signs of difficulty deficating? If the dogs are not eating much they are probably not going a lot. Did either of them have prologed diareah or take a long time to go? If so I would recommend immediate vet visit and relay this to your vet.

#4 Check the dog out THOROUGHLY when he is inside and relaxed. Check over his entire body applyng light to moderate pressure. Check his lymphnodes (especially around the collar bones and neck and inside of the back legs) can you feel em?? Are they bigger than a dime?? If so....vet. Also check along and underneath his ribcage for anything abnormal.

You know your dogs better than anyone and if your on here asking for advice chances are something is out of the ordinary. Before you think about running these dogs further I highly recommend ruling out problems other than fatigue. I wouldn't go messing with their food regimine too much it can lead to stomach problems which can lead to them not wanting to eat for yet another reason. Stick with what they are used to and WATCH them carefully. You'll know when there is something wrong. TRUST YOUR INSTINCT!

About 8 years ago I hunted over a 6 yr old female that quit eating in the middle of woodcock season. At this point she was lean and mean. She still wanted to hunt and ran just as hard as ever. The owner rested her for 2 days until she ate some canned food then he hunted her again. She then refused to eat again. She hunted again the next day like a champ. Day 3 she died of liver failure.

These are driven dogs as you know. They will hunt even when they are seriously ill. Be careful. Please let us know how its going and what you decide to do. Best of luck to both of you!


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## mmartin (Oct 12, 2007)

Thanks for all the help. My setter hasn't lost as much weight as hunts has. maybe five pounds. I was just looking for ways to help him gain weight since he won't be inside this winter. He started out the season at aroung 55 lbs and is down to maybe a little under 50 lbs. He is an excellent hunter and has a motor that doesn't stop, so that might have a little bit to do with it. Thanks again guys .


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Thanks Setter man.

Great advise, and it will be checked into. He is starting to put weight back on, so i am wondering if it was just me working him too hard. He is back up to about 60 LBS, which I feel is great. He is eating again, and alot! I didn't hunt him this weekend, which means he has had alittle over a week off. I won't hunt him till this weekend. I am still going to bring him in, whenever the I can finally get an APPT.

Thanks again guys,

Mike


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Mike if hes gaining weight and seems healthy I would save the money and just watch him, I think hes more than likely just worn out.

Glad the thing helped your other dog I have one lying at my feet that the vet gave a month about 4 years ago.

Never give up.

If you always hunt this much you need two healthy dogs to rotate.

I am jealous I havent hunted anything but deer yet this year


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

BOB I feel bad for you! :-?

I haven't hunted yet today. I feel bad for myself! :lol:

Yeah they gave Cinder about a week to live. They said it was amazing she wasn't dead yet. 
4 years later she is pointing roosters with the best of them! They are tough!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Have you been giving it to her all this time? I'm always looking for feed back on this because some folks are skeptics.

Thanks


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Just when I notice a new growth. Takes care of them.


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## fishunt (Jan 24, 2004)

I have english setter too and she is now four and half years old and vet say it is normal skinny dog because english setter is active dogs and if u want make your dog fatter u can give white rice with chicken and it will helps to make fatter. My dog always eat dry dog food once a while give rice with chicken and will eat and fatter good luck


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