# Calling Volume



## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Got back a few days ago from ND -- highlight was going to a Scheel's store (I envy you guys, we don't have Scheel's up here) where I picked up a few more yote-hunting tapes.

Just wondering about calling volumes. On one DVD one expert using an electronic caller, which he says is the loudest on the market, says when using coyote vacalizations, he lets her rip full volume. For prey sounds he plays at three quarters volume. Regardless of the sound he plays it continuously with no breaks in between.

The other guy, using hand calls, has a 'standard' and a 'pee wee'. He cautioned against 'blowing 'em out of the country' if the calls were two loud.

What was particularly interesting was the fellow who advocated full volume appeared to be hunting in more wooded areas than the fellow who advised moderation who appeared to be hunting in wide open areas, something I thought should be exactly the opposite.

There you go, two experts with two totally different approaches. Maybe their opinions are based on the products they're endorsing, I don't know.

What I'm interested is what you guys do with respect to your calling. Do you let her rip or do you use moderate volumes? Do you call continuously or do you use certain sequences?

I'd like to know what ordinary hunters, not the experts, have experienced.


----------



## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

I play my remote at medium in hilly country or thick country. If I'm in tight country I play it soft. If I'm in open sagebrush country "that's what I normally hunt", the sound goes up. 
I do the same thing using hand calls. It's worked for me for almost 6 decades, I see no reason to change.
I never mess with the sound unless it's to turn it off, end the stand or make something stop. 
I'm woundering if the expert with the loudest e-caller on the market has the first name of Bill and his last name starts with M?
I don't know for a fact, but I'd be welling to bet a coyote is not scared of a 50 lb rabbit. :wink:


----------



## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Call it hunter instincts, or just plain old common sense, but the situation IMO will always dictate the volume. Having said that, I always opt for more volume when I think I can - which is very often. The more dense, wooded areas can be tricky because you don't know if you have snuck REAL close to a coyote to make your call. Some feel that calling at max volume in this case would send a coyote the other way. It appears that no one really knows the answer, but the safe answer in this case might be to call at lower volume for a minute or two, then jack it up. You can do the same on every call stand, and it can't hurt, but you may be just wasting a few extra minutes. The expert that appears to be hunting more wooded areas and says you need max volume is (I think) pointing out that you need volume to have a greater probability of reaching any coyotes. This same thing can be said on any calling stand. Here is an undisputed fact; They aren't coming if they can't hear the call.  Volume = do what your gut tells you, but then make sure they hear you.

Pauses vs constant? :huh: Why can't the experts agree? :roll: Probably another indication that it doesn't matter. I think any caller who has done this a fair amount has probably done it both ways - and probably with good results. What seems to matter more are all the other things that come to play in a calling settup - of which there are many. (But those can be other topics. ) As above, do what your gut tells you. You'll feel luckier, and you'll hunt harder/better when you feel lucky. :beer:


----------



## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

saskcoyote said:


> What I'm interested is what you guys do with respect to your calling. Do you let her rip or do you use moderate volumes? Do you call continuously or do you use certain sequences?


It depends on the terrain, My sight distance and wind speed. A good coyote hunter needs to adapt to the area he's hunting in order to be successful.

In many cases, it causes controversy on this site cause what one guy does in Texas, another guy does it totally different in say, Wisconsin. Both are successful, but instead of taking into consideration that they hunt totally different terrain, they insist on arguing about it. It does have a certain amount of entertainment value to it though :wink:


----------



## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Saskcoyote,

Forgive me if I sounded like I was arguing with anyone when trying to give you a thoughtful answer to your legitimate questions. I hope that you found the info beneficial. What I wrote comes from hunting experiences in Sask, SD, ND, MT, and even MN. I think I have covered all types of terrain, along with wind, rain, snow etc. Just remember, no matter what you do, they ain't comin' if they can't hear you. 

Good hunting my friend! :sniper:


----------



## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Common sense? What college do they teach that in? :lol:


----------



## cpnhgnlngct (Jan 3, 2007)

Though i'm new to the game (only since december 0 Yotes - 1 fox) from what i've seen and heard it isn't black and white loud or quiet. I would imagine that is why the E-callers come with volumes and mouth calls can be controlled at different vol.

I would say to make sure that your not blowing them out of the country or calling too quiet, wouldn't you just start quiet for the close ones not to scare them off, and loud later in the stand to reach out and touch those far away ones? No matter the terrain? Get the best of both worlds.


----------



## glv (May 31, 2007)

Good topic. When I started calling I had the same question. From what I have experienced sometimes it doesn' t matter. But when I use my distress calls I do start off pretty soft and then towards the end I really belt it out if nothing is coming in. Thinking that I am going to have to pull the coyote from a long distance. Coyotes have really good hearing so I personally don't think calling really loud is necessary all of the time.

If it is really windy out then calling at full volume might be the ticket.


----------



## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Thanks for the replies: First off, Danny B, you're dead on. The fellow with the "let 'er rip" approach, coincidently, was named Bill and, yes, his last name started with M. The other DVD was made by a trio of canis latrans physicians.

kdog: I did find your info beneficial and I certainly didn't find your response in the least argumentative. Instead I found it concise and articulate, just the way I like 'em. The fact you've hunted in a number of states and in Sask. under varying conditions and terrains make your comments all the more valid.

In fact, that's what I was looking for -- getting opinions from experienced hunters. Good luck.


----------



## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

kdog said:


> Forgive me if I sounded like I was arguing with anyone


For what it's worth kdog, I didn't think your post was argumentative at all either and definatley didn't see it that way. I was just rambling in my previous post.


----------



## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Bloody,

Sorry if I got a little defensive. I get a little edgy in the off-season 

Danny and Sask,

I hate to break this to you, but I'm a big fan of Bill M. Sorry, but it's true.
Like him or not, he knows his stuff............IMO


----------



## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Can I throw another question at you? I've got videos from experts who swear by using decoys. In other videos, there's not a hint of decoys being used.

I've made my own decoys the last several years, ranging from a plastic quart oil can covered with a fox hide (complete with tail) to a flattened gallon milk jug covered by my wife's pastyhose (complete with leg for the tail -- actually it didn't take that much persuading for her to let me cut up her pantyhose, lol).

What I want to know from ordinary hunters -- not the experts -- is whether they've found decoys beneficial. The reason I ask is I'm looking at getting a Foxpro JIB so I can control the decoy movement at particular moments instead of relying on the wind.

I bought an FX3 a couple years ago, upgrading from a Lohman cassette player, and have enjoyed better results even though my decoys have remained the same. That's why I'm wondering if the FX3 in tandem with the JIB might produce even better results or, in your opinions, would the results be marginal.

Again, I don't want to base my decision on what the experts on my videos tell me, I want to hear from ordinary hunters on what their experiences are. Look forward to your opinions and experiences.


----------



## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Good discussions guys. Keep it up. Like some of you mentioned I just play it by ear concerning volume. If it is windy, more of it, etc. etc. etc. I normally start soft then increase towards the end if need be. When I have a coyote in sight I will call as softly as possible until the coyote hears it. I know coyotes and humans are entirely different in their thinking but I still think of it in this way. You've all heard something really quiet and repetitive like a dripping faucet, a clicking noise in the house...you just HAVE to investigate it and see what it is. How about a loud, violent sound? You have just a little more hesitation to go see what it is (maybe it's danger, etc.). That might sound ridiculous and, yes, human and coyotes brains operate differently but I think those coaxing sounds keep the animal inquisitive about the sound.

Saskcoyote good questions about the decoys. I think that deserves a seperate thread of its own!


----------



## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yeah, you're right Fallguy, I should have started another thread (maybe tomorrow).

And kdog, I was impressed by Bill M's DVD, mainly because it appeared he was calling in terrain and in conditions very similar to what I call in, snow-covered-fields bordered by woods.

So when I see him advocating continuous, full-volume calling for coyote vocalizations and three-quarter prey distress calling, then I know that I won't have to worry about being too far off with the volumes I use. Thanks to all for the discussion. Good luck.


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

About 4 years ago I was out at sun up one morning scouting for the opening of deer season the next morning. My daughter and I were perched on a hillside overlooking tilled fields and hay meadows below us. We were watching a herd of about 8 or 9 Whitetails on the edge of a meadow and all of a sudden I noticed the little fork horn buck in the bunch kept turning and watching back up the fence line from which these deer had emerged. I started glassing the fence line when I spotted them, a pair of coyotes stalking down the fence line getting ever so much closer to the deer.

As the coyotes got to the edge of the meadow the deer high tailed it out through the cattails and were gone with the coyotes following. I immediately started in with a Sceery AP-3 Jackrabbit call as loud as I could blow it. Now these Coyotes were about 3/8 mile away when they disappeared into the cattails after the deer. I blew on the Sceery for about 30 - 40 seconds I would guess and as I was lowering the call from my lips I saw one of the coyotes emerge from the cattails.

I played with this coyote for several minutes, watching his reactions to my calls. It didn't seeem to matter how loudly or softly I called, every time I would start calling the coyote would start moving towards me. I'd call for about 30 seconds and then stop calling. When I'd stop calling the coyote would take a couple more steps and stop. While the coyote was stopped after an instant it's nose was in the air and through binoculars I could see him sniff. Next I'd notice the coyotes ears moving, kind of rotating like radar. The very instant I would start to call again the coyote would start coming my way.

Yes I varied the volume of my calling and it didn't seem to matter to this coyote at all. At 100 yards I took the shot.

Yet another instance I was calling and about the time the coyote appeared from cover at what I guessed was close to a half mile across a tilled corn field, as luck would have it my battery died in my E-Caller. All I had with me was a little bulb type mouse squeaker. In my frustration (I had to try something) I started squeaking with the bulb squeaker and sure enough the coyote started coming in. Just like the situation described above when I'd quite calling the coyote would stop. The really neat thing about this coyote was I had both of my grandkids with me. I thought sure as heck in their excitement they would make some noise and the coyote would be gone. I think the grand kids were mesmorized or something, but not wanting to take any chances when the coyote neared the 200 yard mark I took the shot.

I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, but hopefully the above to instances will show that both methods will work. I guess I have never called continously as I personally think I want to keep his curiosity piqued with the intermittent calling.

Larry


----------



## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Great post Larry!

Another reason I do not call continuously is that I only use handcalls. Opening and closing of the hand, as well as the panning of the sound back and forth all involve movement. I try to call in intervals to limit the movement that I make.


----------



## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

Fallguy and I have had a couple situations where we setup right on top of napping coyotes. I think on your very first series you should be fairly quiet. On both of those setups I think we scared the crap out of those coyotes. Each time we were within about 100 yards. They must have thought it was a dog sized rabbit. :lol:


----------



## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

quiet, loud, louder, squeak


----------



## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

kdog, I never said he ( Bill Martz ) didn't know his stuff, electronics and sound systems. He probably has the best recordings on the market and probably more of them then anyone else. His caller is also the best you can buy if you happen to have the money.
I just don't like the way Bill Martz treats others on the internet. Starting from the old Shadetree fourm 10 years or so ago. I'm not the only one that feels that way. He has been banned from many of the predator hunting forums, because of his attude and the way he treats people. I hope he has changed his ways over the years.
It's really no big deal, just a personal thing. We all have our likes and dislikes.


----------



## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

SDhandgunner,

Wow, your post should answer alot of things about volume, and about calling intermittantly.  As far as volume, I think two things can be learned. That coyotes have great ears, whereas a mouse squeak at several hundred yards may be all you need. And secondly, that at least one coyote is not afraid of a loud call at close range. 

As far as intermittant calling, your example points to the fact that coyotes like to hear what they are responding to. You call, they come. You stop, they stop. Now Fallguy has a great point in that it's very difficult, and creates alot of extra movement to call continuously with a hand call. I certainly never have done it. I do make a point of calling very often - whether a hand call or electronic, just to keep the coyote coming.

Just for fun, I want to create a calling scenario. (I know I'm crazy - just humor me :roll: ) Lets say I pick a calling setup, and start calling. A coyote may be close by, so I start soft. I call a couple of "series" in the soft mode. We'll say I like to pause for 2 minutes after each series. Maybe 5 minutes have gone by and I switch to a moderate volume. I do this for a couple series as well. Now about 10 minutes into the call, I let 'er all hang out. A coyote perks up his ears about a mile away, and likes what he hears.  The coyote starts trotting my way, but I of course don't know that. :roll: Now I pause for 2 minutes. The coyote stops, and after a few seconds, sits on his butt.  I start calling a second let 'er rip series, and the coyote gets up off his butt, and with renewed interest starts trotting my way (again).  After this series, I pause again. Yes you guessed it - the coyote stops, looks around, and sits down on his butt (again).  Hey, I look at my watch. I've been callin' for a full 15 minutes and nothin' has showed up. Geez, I felt lucky about this spot too! Oh well, the experts say it's a numbers game, so I best move on to the next spot.......

Lots of stuff to think about - volume, pauses, length of time at a call.
Makes for great opportunities to exchange ideas and opinions :beer:


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

kdog believe me I have been there just like the situation you described, and messed it up a time or two also. In fact I have a buddy that if he hasn't heard, seen of shot at a Coyote in 15 minutes is getting up and ready to move.

On fact on one particular stand last winter, after 15 minutes my buddy got up only to send the coyote that I thought I had spotted sneaking along the edge of some cat tails do a disappearing act really fast. On the next stand I told him if he stood up in 15 minutes I was going to shoot him in the foot so he couldn't get up (which I obviously wouldn't have done, but he did get the idea).

Yes I know it is hard to sit on stand when you have not seen any movement, but that is why Coyotes are Coyotes and good at what they do.

I think the bottom line is there are no pat answers and nothing that is going to work perfectly every single time out. Truth be known I have built my own home brewed E-Callers for close to 10 years now, plus used some commercial E-Callers also and have had WAY more success with Mouth Calls. I think for me personally it is way to easy to call too loud and too much with an Electronic Caller.

Larry


----------



## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

SDhandgunner, I personally don't know any competition ( contest ) hunters that use hand calls all the time, 90% of the time it's e-callers. 
These guys are not out to just have fun, they are out to bag as many coyotes as they can. 
I have used hand calls since 1964, still do now and then, but I found a better way in 1975 when I started competing. When it comes to collecting lots of predators in a short amount of time, an e-caller is the only way to go. 
There are secerts some "contest hunters" simply don't talk about, but most well tell you in order to take alot of animals you have to cover alot of ground and make short stands and be in the right area. 
That means no playing around with equiptment wasting time, No messing with the volume of your e-caller, just make as many stands as you can and don't miss. :beer: Don't miss is real important :lol:


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

To be totally honest with you Danny, time is part of my problem. I don't get away from work nearly enough to do the amount of calling I want to do. The other thing is, at least around here lately it seems every body and their brother has started calling Coyotes and my experience is that they are responding slower as a result of their constantly hearing prey sounds.

I guess I need to try some different things and more importantly get out calling more often.

Larry


----------



## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Yeah I can believe that Larry, work comes first. I was lucky in my working days to have alot of time off, I took advantage of it too. 
You're also right about a new predator caller behind ever bush, the sport has got so big nowadays it's almost unbelieveable. 
I hope you can find some time to go hunting this year.


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Danny B said:


> I hope you can find some time to go hunting this year.


Yeah me too ! Hopefully the new DPMS Panther Bull 20 Fluted I just aquired will be what's needed for me to get more enthused and force myself to take some time off and get out calling more. Man I really love this new Rifle.

Larry


----------



## Jrbhunter (May 24, 2006)

kdog said:


> Bloody,
> Danny and Sask,
> 
> I hate to break this to you, but I'm a big fan of Bill M. Sorry, but it's true.
> Like him or not, he knows his stuff............IMO


+1


----------



## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

kdog, Jrbhunter: Actually, the Bill Martz DVD I bought was the first time I encountered the fellow and I thoroughly enjoyed what he had to say.

It filled the two criteria of a good DVD -- it was both entertaining and informative. The entertaining part was due to the general hunting action and the similarity of the terrains and conditions where he was hunting to the terrains and conditions I encounter.

Among the informative parts was his take on a coyote's ability or inability to think like you and I and how it instead perceives certain sounds. According to Martz, calling loudly to a coyote doesn't sound unnatural to the yote, all it means to the yote is that the critter making the noise is nearby. Calling continuously doesn't sound unnatural to a yote either, according to Martz, it's a noise he'll familiar with and the continuous sound will keep the yotes interest.

There were other interesting things Martz had to say but these were two of the main ones that stuck with me.

So, kdog and Jrbhunter, I guess you could count me as a Martz fan and you can be assured if he's got any other DVDs on the market I'll try to get my hands on them.


----------



## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Sask,

In all fairness, as Danny stated, his problem with Bill was his attitude. I have spent a long time on the phone with Bill, and while he doesn't mince his words, he always makes sense. I have a good rapport with Bill, and have learned many things from him - things that I know are true because I have put them to the test. He knows an awful lot about coyote behavior -not just electronics. As you noted Sask, Bill stresses how we mistakenly try to give coyotes credit for being able to think. If we can get beyond that, we've already learned alot - as you have.

One time, when I had some questions, Bill put me in touch with a guy who had trapped, shot and called more coyotes than I will even see in my lifetime - and that was just one season.  Anyway, you get the idea - when this guy said something, I listened. When I asked about how loud I dare howl when first starting a call (not knowing if an unseen coyote was close by, and concerned that I might spook something out of the County) he replied, "christ, they howl in each others ear all the time - you think your gonna scare 'em off with too much volume?" I guess I had my answer.

I learned long ago that I was never going to be able to spend the time necessary out in the field to be as good as some of these guys are.  I have tried though to speed up the process by talking to people who have done it all, have made all the mistakes, and know what works and what doesn't. That is why this forum is great. :beer:


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

kdog said:


> I learned long ago that I was never going to be able to spend the time necessary out in the field to be as good as some of these guys are.  I have tried though to speed up the process by talking to people who have done it all, have made all the mistakes, and know what works and what doesn't. That is why this forum is great. :beer:


Very, very true, for me also. I know I will never have the time needed to perfect this sport that I truly enjoy.

Larry


----------



## thepain1 (Dec 20, 2006)

I say call low right off the start to make sure nothing is close then pick up the volume from there. Then after ten minutes i let her buck as hard as i can what do you have to lose. I also do not agree with continous calling i like to blow the call about ten times then stop and watch and listen i find thats all it takes most off the time then when they come in they dont have you pin pointed. But ill usually blow the call every couple off minutes. :sniper:


----------



## jackal_727 (Jul 12, 2007)

I just recently tried hunting yotes at my property. I saw a few about 250-300 yards away. I was still hunting from a tree stand. Is it nessesary to use game calls? Also, what advice does anyone have as far as what time to hunt, the best terrain, should i use calls, bait, etc.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

Hunt late or early in the day for the best sucess, it can be done other times of the day but not the best. Any terain will work as long as it has coyotes on it. Try to find something to have behind you to break up your outline. Make sure if you cold fin a spot with no cover downwind that would be the best. They either will not circle to catch your scent or they will be forced into the open. Bait is not necessary but if you want to keep your shots close you might want a decoy but sometimes that isn't necassay either. Just use a piece of fur and hang it from a stick. And calling will help alot. Hope this helps.


----------



## jackal_727 (Jul 12, 2007)

It did, thanks.


----------

