# Non-res. waterfowl hunters.



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

As of a few days ago the GNF reported just under 25,000 non-res. waterfowl licenses sold.With the dry conditions that is about 5-10,000 too many.

I am hearing reports of hotel cancelations and hunters around here cutting their trips short....No water and no ducks.


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

my original numbers were wrong. G&F reports 25,196 NR licenses as of 10/27/2003


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

Maybe its just me, but I thought last year there was a 100,000 non res waterfowl license cap. You guys are only talking about 25,000. Was I just mistaken? :roll:


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## Austin Bachmeier (Feb 27, 2002)

You are incorrect, Last years cap was 30,000......


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## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

Anyone know what the number of NR hunters were in 99,00,01, as opposed to last year and this year? Austin above says 30,000 for this year and last. I have hunted the Minot are for the last several years, and until this year, we hunted pretty much whereever we wanted, and did not see many other hunters. (Usually didn't see any, except for at the gas stations in the morning) This year we did see several groups of hunters on the weekends, but week days were still not too bad.
My point in all of that is, I think that 30,000 is too many to handle. Maybe limit the number of hunters to what it was a few years ago before ND became the "hot spot." Maybe another solution would be to limit, not the total numbers of non resident hunters, but to limit the number that can be there per hunting zone, per week, to spread the pressure out. Just a thought.


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## Austin Bachmeier (Feb 27, 2002)

I never said anything about this year, there is no cap.....

By them saying 'the Word from Bismarck' - that means the Game and Fish Headquarters. :beer:


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## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

Sorry, didn't mean to mis-quote you. Was just saying that you had said 30,000 for last year, and someone else above had said that G & F was saying that they thought they would be at 30,000 again this year. Was just making the point that 30,000 seems to be too many.


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## recker (Oct 12, 2003)

Here is how I see it. I hunt in south dakota every year from minn and they cap it at 3000 but increased it to 4000 the last few years and even that makes a huge difference from what I see. Minn has 130,000 waterfowlers and I figure half only hunt the first weekend or so. That cuts it to 65,000 and by the end of the first few weeks maybe half of that with us die hards later in the year. If nd has 35,000 resdents and add 30,000 nr most hunting near the end of october it pretty much gives you the same amount of hunters as minn at that time which is way too many.Of course this is just a guess but might be close from the pressure I am hearing.Most people time trips around the migration so I think most will be in nd in late october or early nov.either way way too many people in my mind.It is funny about how people argue that the money it brings in is good. Yes it is but if the ducks keep getting this much pressure ever year they will find a new route to migrate and then none of that will matter. Then nobody will come anyway.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Gaddy...there was a 30,000 cap last year.This year our #$^*$%^ Govenor decided not to put in a cap.Instead he had the GNF put in these stupid zones that don't acomplish anything.In 2001 there was a little over 30,000 so that's the number he went by.In 2000 there were about 25,000 and in 1999 about 20,000.So it was increasing by about 5,000 per year.Hence the push by sportsmen to get some sort of cap.

Our Legislature came within 1 vote of putting in the Hunter Pressure Concept,which is based on water and number of resident hunters.They don't meet again until 2005 so we are stuck with what our #%&$#*&^% Govenor wants.

I would guess we have the same amount of hunters using less than half the amount of water as compared to the past years.


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

I am a non res and have no problems with the restrictions put on us. I think it needs to be done tp protect the resources. However, I don't really see the hunting pressure problem. Maybe it is worse this year because of bad water conditions, but by going by the# of hunters we have in Minnesota, I don't really see this as a problem. Again, maybe it is different this year because of the poor water conditions. I see ND as having at least as many if not many more prime hunting locations as Minnesota does. We don't seem to have a problem with pressure. Also, the 30,000 non res in your state to date have been spaced out over a period of several weeks, and residents get the whole first wek to theirselves. And don't think that in Minnesota we don't have non-resident hunters also. Again, I am just trying to make sense of the hunter pressure concept, not saying it is wrong or right. We hunted in ND over MEA. I didn't care that we didn't get to hunt plots, but when you see NOBODY hunting them, it makes you wonder if there is something better the state could do to deal with a non-res problem. I am all for your cause, but do see it all as a little unfair. I am using a recently published newspaper article for some points here. The article stated that non-res hunters and their $ spent on your states licences and the federal waterfowl stamp go toward the improvement of habitat in your state, and we only get to spend 2 weeks there. Also, there are many non-res that own land in ND an have performed habitat improvements, that have costed alot of money, to their land, and they can only hunt 2 weeks. Another point the author used was that a lot of North Dakotans own cabins in Minnesota. What would happen if the state put a 2 week limit on fishing in Minnesota. I'm sure alot of people would be unhappy about this. I am for ND'S cause, but am unhappy to see all this fighting over the resources that belong to everyone, and hope this can be solved. There will be no winners in this battle between non res and res, only a loser, and that is the wildlife.


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## J.D. (Oct 14, 2002)

WOW! I think Chris should rename these forums the Resident v. Non-Residnent Hunting and Fishing Forums! :eyeroll:


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

My earlier quote was wrong, G&F reports 25,196 NR waterfowl license sold as of the morning of 10/27/2003


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

What will be interesting to hear will be if people will remember that not as many people came because of the bad hunting/hunting conditions this year or will they blame it on resident sportsmen?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I would think there are a lot of non-res. upland hunters that did not get the waterfowl stamp this year.

Maple Lake...one thing you forget is that Mn. fishing season is 365 days long.ND waterfowl is about 50 days long.Using that ratio...if we got a 14 day fishing license you would only get a 2 day hunting license.

That is why I don't agree with comparing hunting with fishing....They are not the same.

Minn doesn't need to retaliate.They need to do what is best for their sportsmen.If that means a shorter license or opening week for res. only then that is what they should do.We will always try to do what is best for our residents and Minn should also.


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## Ref (Jul 21, 2003)

Ken and I will again disagree on comparing hunting in ND and fishing in Mn. They must be compared. Hunting in ND is what ND has that non-residents want and fishing in Mn is what Mn has that non-residents want. Obviously 45,000 ND people bought a NR Mn fishing license, so there must be something that they want here. Each state has to market what they can. You can call it retaliating or doing what is best for the residents or whatever you want to call it, but it still comes down to restricting someone from doing what they love to do. As far as I'm concerned (and I know Ken and others will disagree with me here), the length of the season doesn't make any difference. The good people of ND should feel fortunate that they can fish for 365 days in Mn. That is a bonus for them. I am not talking percentages, I'm talking opportunities.

If and when Saskatchewan says that non-residents will need a guide to hunt waterfowl, Ken will be disapointed and so will I because we might not be going back. The people of ND won't know what we feel like until you have sat on our side of the fence and know that something has been taken from you.

I'm not totally against limiting the NR but to restrict NR from hunting pheasants in November and December doesn't make any sense. Someone will say that the NR is not restricted from hunting during those months. They are right. But when we could only have 10 days to hunt, we took the first ten days because of more birds available and better weather. We aren't coming back this year. We usually only saw a handful of hunters including residents during the last two months of the season. The roosters need to be thinned out so they are not in competition with the hens for food, and we are also helping keep the small towns alive. We don't shoot limits, but the challenge is why we hunt.

I usually don't get into many discussions on this topic because I don't want to ruin a good hunting relationship with my brother, but I felt I had to say something. If you have read any of his posts, he uses good common sense without getting too hot under the collar. We just happen to disagree on this one.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Of course we disagree...sometimes.I will never be convinced to compare hunting and fishing since the season lengths are way different.

Plus there is PUBLIC access on almost all waters in both Minn. and ND.Not so with hunting.

I still stand by my statement that Minn. sportsmen should do what is best for them just as we are doing here.

And I agree about the pheasant license.10 days is ridiculous out of a 90+ day season.The resource is there and no one is using it in December.And "the buy more than 1 license" is bad also.All it does is allow people with lots of bucks to buy land and go as often as they want.The average hunter with kids goes only once.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration is that this is the first year waterfowl and upland licenses have been split. So even though there were 30,000 NR waterfowl hunters the last two years that number was sure to include people who were primarily upland hunting but purchased a waterfowl license in case the oppurtunity arose. So it's possible that there's already been more licenses sold to guys who are only waterfowl hunting than any previous year. At the very least it has to be close, and that's with less water than the previous two years.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Ref, you just gave away your true colors, sound like G/O language and this where most of the people on this forum will split the sheets with your philosophy. We as resident hunters feel that a weather driven renewable resource should not be marketed to outside interests. This is the worst case of wanton waste there is to a resource that is already suffering. How in the world can you sell something that will not be there tomorrow, no water-no ducks,hard winter-no deer and pheasants. You cannot objectively make the corrolation from Mn fish to waterfowl, MN will always have those skinny walleyes.

There is room for NR's, but like in drinking moderation must be observed.
25 or 30,000 non-residents when conditions are the way they are now shows a total disrespect for the resource and not to mention to residents that now have no ducks to hunt due to heavy pressure and water conditons. Remember, RESIDENTS come first then comes guests.

As for the politicians that sold us out, there day of reckoning is close at hand! Too many of this people have peed on their own shoes!!


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## recker (Oct 12, 2003)

Being from Minn I dont think you can go to north dakota and say well the pressure is not like minn to the guy who did. That is the whole point and why it has been so good in ND. People are starting to see it get alot worse and want to stop it before it turns into minn. We wonder why we have no ducks in Minn? Buddies in south dakota said birds moved in big time on saturday on the front. I am leaving tomorrow yes. Yet I read of all the long faces on waterfowler from minnesota guys expecting a push. I learned years back the only time we get northern ducks in minn is right at the end otherwise they just dont come through mn. Our habitat stinks and if they do come pressure drives them right out. My week in south dakata each year is twenty times better then the whole season in minn in at least birds seen etc.My point is dont turn this into a well you dome to minnesota fishing thing so you owe us. More restrictions mean much better hunts when you go to either dakota and I will stand agaisnt any push for more access to NR including myself as one.


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## Water Swater (Oct 23, 2003)

Ref, you are right on the money! they are comparable and I think until MN restricts the number of anglers in this state no NR is going to agree. Also charge them accordingly since the MN DNR spends millions of dollars on stocking those skinny walleyes for 4curl to come and catch. Charge them all $100.00 only let them fish on certain days or for certain amounts of time, then the will maybe see our point of being restricted. I am starting to see Ken's and 4curl's point that the residents should come first and we in MN should push for these restrictions so that we protect our interest and that we come first who gives a crap about those that love to come here and enjoy what MN has to offer. Also that if we limit the number of boats on the lakes in the summer the ducks and geese may come back to our state to reproduce with less pressure on the lakes. we have plenty of water for it. I starting to see their points. I don't agree with this, everyone should enjoy what we have to offer and I think it should be that way in every state especially on Federal Migratory Waterfowl key word here is Federal.


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## GO WILD (Oct 21, 2003)

I dont see the problem with the number of hunters whether they are NR or Res. North Dakota is a big state and there is a lot of room. Instead of fighting the NR i think the Res should target the real problem which i think is the guides. They take up way to much of the available land in ND. After we remove those bastards we should be allowed to enjoy our tax dollars and hunt on any land which is enrolled in any federal program such as CRP. Without our support their would be no CRP and some farmers would be put into a difficult situation. We vote for people who support our farmers and help through difficult times. I think they could give something back to the taxpayers instead of getting greedy and charging people to hunt on land which we are paying for.


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## recker (Oct 12, 2003)

Years ago guides were not a problem because nobody needed them.with added pressure all of a sudden people want land. Being from minn I should be for nr but i am not.I am thinking about the resource long term for all of us. Regardless of how many people fish in minn from nd and probably alot I am not sure why though. I do much better on walleyes in sd then in minn big time and less pressure.As close to canada as I have seen it.My whole point is whatever it takes to keep something good dont ruin it out of spite.


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## Ref (Jul 21, 2003)

Ken,

Did you read the comments from 4curlredlegs??? He thinks I'm a guide!!!!!

From now on, any comments that he puts on this website has zero validity with me, because now I know for sure that he doesn't know what he is talking about.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Wrong 4curl...REF is not close to being a guide.


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## J.D. (Oct 14, 2002)

I know one thing if I was in Nodak right now I wouldnt be debating on the internet Id be out scouting or better yet hunting! :beer:


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

ever wonder why state parks limit the # of folks that can camp in them ??? Doesn't the Boundry waters have a limit on how many can be in there ???

Even public & private buildings are regulated on how many can be in them

WHY ???

If some areas are too crowded - what else can be done to solve those problems ???

Leaving this stuff up to the Legislature is not good management.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Like I have stated many times already this year, let MN retaliate over ND restrictions on NR hunters. ND will turn around and restrict NR fishermen. I fished DL religously this year, and can testify that there are A LOT of MN people fishing DL. I'm going to throw it out there, wether it is tasteless or not, but MN is the land of 10,000 "overfished" lakes. And to clarify, you cannot fish walleyes in MN 365 days a year.


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## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

The reason most North Dakotans think fishing in MN is poor is because they all drive 45 miles to the same lakes everyone else drives to. First of all, there is some Awesome walleye fishing in MN and second of all, you might even see a mink, or other wild animal along the shore instead of cattle.

I don't know what fishing has to do with duck hunting, I am just sick of seeing people talking out of their a#@ just so they can say something bad about the evil empire to the east.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Booze and Ref, if you want to see the FACTS (not rhetoric) about relative use of resources and my opinion of why MN fishing does not equal ND hunting, hit this link: http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/members/ph ... ght=#15520

Retaliation may be a convenient justification right now, but if MN has problems with it's fishing, and you really want to do something about MN's fishing quality, you better look first within your own borders and then East, Southeast and South before blaming the problem Westward. ND doesn't play a very big role.


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

I'm sorry I started the whole fishing thing. I think it would be wrong for mn to retaliate. There is nothing to retaliate about. As many others said, you need to do what is best for your state and your people. I wish it could all just be sorted out and stop the fighting. The only reason we come to ND is the experience. We shoot a lot of ducks at our pond, enough to satisfy us. But it is amazing to come to ND and see all the birds. That is what the true sportsmen is about. It's not about harverting, its about enjoying yourself and just being there watching the birds. Lets stop arguing and start hunting.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

You are exactly right Maple Lake...it's the experience.BUT unless there are some limitations on numbers of hunters,especially in dry years like this one,you might as well stay in Minn.We will be just like you.

AND there must be some limits on amount of land a G/O can lease or we will be over there hunting with you in a very short time.

So get on the e-tree!!!!!


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Come'on Ref, I don't know you from Adam. I have not read a post by you until just a couple of days ago, so I don't know where you are coming from or where you stand. Call it my ignorance if you like.

Whether on this forum or in public when someone makes a statement or reference to marketing hunting or fishing, either they are most likely in the hospitality business or G/O business, maybe both.

If I misunderstood your post or intent I am truly sorry, but I have had this discussion with many parties on both sides and marketing hunting does not come out of the mouths of resident freelance hunters.

There is no gray area as to where I stand, I eat, sleep and crap ND and stand for all that reside here. Period.


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## Ref (Jul 21, 2003)

4curl,

If you don't know me, or where I come from, or where I stand, then don't associate me with those scumbags called guides/outfitters. I have told everyone that I know that the G/O's are going to be the downfall of hunting as we know it.
What I was refering to when I talked about marketing was the economic impact that the states receive through the hunting and fishing industries: restaurants, motels, resorts, gas stations, bait dealers, sporting goods stores etc. NOT guides and outfitters. Both states support many family incomes in the above mentioned careers. Mn promotes its fishing and ND promotes hunting. That is why I still maintain that the two activities are absolutely comparable.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Our Tourism Dept. has been Misguided


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Yup, DL isn't overfished. 140,000 acres of world class fishing, also Tony Dean's favorite place to fish for some odd reason. If MN has such good fishing, why like I stated do so many people from MN fish in ND?? Last year was also the best year of fishing yet. I got plenty of pics for proof. Your ignorance is displayed by the fact you believe ND has only "2 lakes" worth knowing the name of.


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## lbk (Oct 19, 2003)

I was in Bottineau last week. We were hunting ducks but there were quite a few hunters there for the annual snow goose shootout. I hears that of all the hunting groups, one group got 6 snows - that was it. When we got there (Wed the 22nd) there were virtually no ducks aroound. We got some shooting in the hills (very good actually). Ducks started coming in on Sunday. We saw thousands feeding in one nearby field. I think the next few weeks will be good.


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## Water Swater (Oct 23, 2003)

you guys are missing my point I was being a smart *** I don't want any restrictions on MN fishing. I don't care about the numbers if you know how to fish MN is the place to be for the best variety and quality. We should always share this with how ever wants to come. My point is that if you restrict people that come to your state the will go with the guides and outfitters just so they can get the best hunt of their life without doing the work with the limited time and places they can go. That was the point I was trying to make. However I am heading up the there on Saturday and will have a great hunt the people there are great and love having us non residents there. The owner of the bar we eat at and hang at told us that non residents during the hunting season is the only thing that keeps him in business. He also tells us place to hunt which is great, nothing but nice people there. I have great hunting land in Minnesota however the only reason I go to ND is to see the numbers and SOB's.


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