# Match Kings?



## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

So for the most part have you guys found Serria match kings to be "jump tolerant?" I'm new to the shooting and reloading scene and I was wondering what you all think.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I look at jump tolerance as rifle related more than bullet related. However, that being said we all know that soft cast bullets are very intollerant as compared to hard cast lead. Soft lead with little bore contact performs only at extreme low velocity, and then best wrapped in a patch.  
If I had to look at bullet tolerance to jump I would say bullets with the most bore contact would be the most tolerant. To bad that means they have the poorest ballistic coefficients.

Is it Weatherby that is noted for having long throats and requiring large bullet jumps? I think that's right, and they are very accurate. By hunting standards anyway. I don't know of any benchrest or sniper Weatherby rifles.

My Remington 700P has a long throat compared to the magazine capability. I do have to make a good jump to the lands, but it shoots under .3 inches with SMK and TAC powder.


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

Is this good?

100 yards










300 yards










Wind was swirling a bit of course. 8)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The 100 yard is very good. If it had not been for the wind I would guess the 300 would be much smaller. I see you were using Varget. I don't know why I can't get Varget to do better in my rifle. It does OK with Lapua Silver Scenars, but not with SMK. I switched to TAC, and now the SMK are outdoing the Lapua with Varget. I have not put the TAC and Lapua on paper yet. I'm looking forward to a nice calm day to do that.


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

Chasing rainbows are ya? I tend not to fret about such.


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

.5 MOA is acceptable. .25 is better, however as long as I can smack a steel target at 1K, that is what counts. ES and SDs are what matters anyway. IMO Don't care much for groups. Esp at 100 and 300.... 1 MOA will still kill steel (and other things) :wink: That is what counts.

Just an example is all...It'll work for my F-class load.

Of course I'm still learn'en.......


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## darkgael (Feb 10, 2006)

".5 MOA is acceptable."
What king of shooting are you doing that a half minute of angle group is only "acceptable" (from what I guess is a sporting rifle)? 
Getting a 0.500" group from a 0.308" bullet is more than acceptable in my book. When I get a group like that, I stop load development, take the rifle off the bench and start shooting from field expedient positions 'cause anything better isn't worth the trouble (To me. But I always look at load development as a PItA.)
Nice load. Nice pics.
Pete


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

Hey thanks! I appreciate the complement.

It's basically a stock Winchester in a McM A3 stock. It do shoot. 

There is room for improvement though.


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## darkgael (Feb 10, 2006)

Yeah. Well, you only have 0.346" to play with before you have a "bench rest" group. 
Pete


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

smk said:


> Is this good?
> 
> 100 yards
> 
> Wind was swirling a bit of course. 8)


No, it's not. It's too high and a little bit too far to the right. Adjust them knobby things on the scope.

Seriously though, NICE GROUP!

 :beer:

huntin1


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## Tyrant (Mar 24, 2008)

Bugholes are far from a bad thing.

Is the 175 your favorite HPBT SMK ?

I have been diggen the 168's in the green or red box with the red points.....

Norm


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

So that's what those knobby things are for! I was wondering about those! They do look cool though. 

Yes I guess I would consider 175s my favorite smk. I do have a 168 load that actually out shoots my 175 but it's only moving at 2450. Not exactly what I was looking for and the ES and SD on that load are not good. Pretty sure it would fall apart at 600+ although I have not tried it that far. 0-300 she's fricken deadly though, that I do know. I have not tried Amaxes yet. They are on my to try list.

At 1K the 175s are at 38 MOA. Chart says 38+3 but you don't need the +3.

Plainsman, what grain are you shooting with the tac?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Yeah, them knobby things do look cool, they even got numbers on em.

My cheap 10FP really likes the 168's, the Black Hills Match ammo runs about 2680, my reloads with 45.5 grains of varget run at 2700 give or take a few. Plainsman has not yet talked me into trying the Tac, but I imagine I will at some point. Curiosity you know.

Right now I'm concentrating on my new to me 45acp getting ready for a few LE comps this summer.

Well that and my grandkids.

huntin1


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

Grandkids? Well congrats! Spoil the sh!t out of them. :wink:


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

Bump

Just wondering what grain SMK plainsman is shooting with Tac? Thanks.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plainsman, what grain are you shooting with the tac?


I am shooting 168 gr SMK with TAC. They are moving out at 2690 and grouping between .270 and .320.
If you want to get into real long range with your 308 order some Lapua Scenars from this site http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/ Get the 155 gr which have a ballistic coefficient of .508 and can be pushed to 3000 fps. I couldn't get good accuracy until I dropped off to 2940 fps. Still that bullet does not go subsonic until about 1400 yards. You will find that you are dialing 2.5 less minutes of angle at 800 yards as compared to the 168 SMK. 
Give them a shot you will like them. I reserve them for things beyond 800 yards.

I look through a lot of posts SMK, so if I miss something PM me.


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

Never though of the PM thing. I'll do that next time. My bad...

I've read several articles that point to the suggested BC of the 155 scenar being off by as much as 11% (on the high side). This would put them in the same class as meplated 155 VLDs. Any thoughts? I have been skeptical of the suggested BC on that bullet for some time.

Nevertheless, I'm planning on buying some, jamming them @ aprox .005-.010, pushing them to 2900ish and seeing what they do. Have you tried them with RL-15? How about N140? 4895?


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## Tyrant (Mar 24, 2008)

Seems to me like allot of money to buy expensive boolits when you can just crank the top knobby thing 10 klicks and get away with SMK's or A-maxs at around 30 bucks a hundred....

With a velocity of 2400 ish don't the wind get you allot longer than if you are @ 3400 FPS ?

So maybe a 87 GR 6MM boolit @ 3400ish will drift less than a 175 .308 @ 2400... Am I far off here ?

VLD's ??? Very Little Doggy....

Thanks guys,
Norm


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

Nope, you would be correct! My 175s are running right around 2560 though. Today though at 78 degrees they were running at 2600ish. So much for "extreme powders!"

The beauty of Scenars isn't the MOA of drop but the MOA of windage correction. They kick the hell out of 175s @ 2560-2600! Big time!

If one can get them going 2900ish, they can't be touched.

AND they are cheaper than 175 smks....

I thought VLD meant Vickie Likes D**K.... (grin)


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## Tyrant (Mar 24, 2008)

I thought VLD meant Vickie Likes D**K.... (grin)

V-Funny...

So if my 300 Winny is pushin 3450 @ 35 Deg the VLD's might shine ???

Norm


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I've read several articles that point to the suggested BC of the 155 scenar being off by as much as 11% (on the high side). This would put them in the same class as meplated 155 VLDs. Any thoughts? I have been skeptical of the suggested BC on that bullet for some time.


Yes, my program doesn't work well with the Scenars. If I lower the velocity in the program it isn't consistent, so I lower the ballistic coefficient to .485 and everything works out. At 800 yards the difference between the 155 Scenar and the 168 SMK is 2.5 minutes of angle (in the real world).

I used Varget and pushed them to 3010 fps. Accuracy wasn't great so I had to drop them back to 2940 and they pulled into .35 to .4 inches. Now I have to put some TAC behind those bullets and see what they will do.

I know they say not to hunt with match ammo, but some people do. I have shot deer with 168 SMK with good results. However, at I think it was 550 yards I shot a doe lengthwise and the Scenar didn't mushroom. Nope, I'm not guessing. When the fawn came back my son dropped it just behind the doe with a 260 Remington. When he moved the fawn he found my bullet laying on the ground. What's the chances a bullet would just make it through a deer and fall on the ground five feet behind her? Anyway, it must have hit bone, because it just bent slightly in the middle.


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## Tyrant (Mar 24, 2008)

Cool find Plainsman !!

Norm


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## smk (Apr 30, 2008)

That is a pretty neat find!

So you have been having good luck with Tac?


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