# Gander Mountain Leasing up Land!



## Rick Acker

Last night I called a farmer to secure permission for an upcoming hunt, when he informed me that Gander Mountain was busy in the area leasing up land! Apparently, the company has figured out a good way to cater to big name clients, corporations and exec's! They are trying to buy up a big chunks of land and no this is not in the SW! 
How come I have a feeling that my 5 month old son will never get to experience the tremendeous hunting opportunities that I have enjoyed in this state! That's unless, he moves away, makes big bucks and comes back to buy his way on to land! I know its reality, it just makes me sad!


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## jamartinmg2

Wow.... that is pretty sad if that is the case. If that is their intention, I'm not sure that I really care to buy my hunting supplies from them anymore. Can this be confirmed as a long-term strategy for them? Hard to believe they would do something risky like that, and enrage the local hunting populace. Who knows in this day and age though.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

This needs to be confirmed by someone! If I find out any sporting goods store/chain is doing that they will lose my business and everyone else I hunt with as well! :******: uke: :******:

I have no problem buying something via the internet or paying a couple bucks more from a mom and pop type store !!!


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## deacon

Diddo, if they are doing this can someone find out. Once the word gets out they will probably change their policy, at least I hope!


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## Dick Monson

Have to send in one of the nodakoutdoors investigative reporters. If true this would indeed be sad as the new Delta Chapter of Fargo meets at Gander Mountain.   We may need new bumper stickers to hand out to Fargo boys. :wink:


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## Drixmein

where is this taking place? what type of land are they leasing?


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## kruegs95

First off, it's hard to make a judgment on this without knowning the truth. MAYBE (and this is just a guess) they are buying up land (if they are actually buying land) to be used as open hunting. I would find it hard to believe that they would buy up land and then keep it away from the hunters.


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## njsimonson

Aw man. I really like that place too. If they are leasing up land to schmooze, I'm out of there.

Then again, Cabela's does basically the same thing when it sponsors outfits with its "Cabelas Guides & Outfitters" tag, and I haven't heard anyone complain on here about that yet.

Oh Kruegs! It is nice to see an untainted mind on this site! You will learn quickly to hate all things guide- and outfitter-related.


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## DuckBuster

Minneapolis Star Tribune
11-29-04
Business Section

Last week outdoor retailer *Gander Mountain* announced a new *travel and guide service, Outdoor Expeditions.* The new service is geared for the adventure travel segment of the $40 billion-a-year leisure travel business.

Gander Mountian is adding the travel service in response to its customers' requests for travel-related information ranging from recommeddations for access to the best places to hunt and fish to the best equipment for their trips.

"Outdoor Expeditions is another Gander Mountain service that will help us fulfill our vision to help our customers create outdoor memories," said Gander Mountain CEO Mark Baker.

Customers can reach Outdoor Expeditions by dialing ............

Yep, pretty sure I'm gonna be done shopping there... It sure sounds like that is why they would be leasing up land. The article never stated they were actually leasing land, but it would make sense if they are actually going to be guiding. uke: :eyeroll:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

That sux! I am a huge advocate of progression in our state, but when crap like this happens it ticks me off. I really don't know what the lessor of the evils are anymore. :eyeroll:


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## Gary Bottger

I feel for you guys. We have the same thing happen down here with aonther outdoor chain.


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## BROWNDOG

Rick you need to tell me what area you were going to hunt in, I'm from MN. But the Grandson of the owner of Gandermountain has a place on a lake about a mile from me. I need to know where you intendeded to hunt

Thanks,
Todd


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## Bob Kellam

Here is the link

Make up your own mind!!!! :eyeroll:

http://www.outdoorltd.com/northdakota.html

Bob


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## BROWNDOG

I dont want the link I think its a bunch of ***** I was just willing to go talk to the guy and tell him what I thought. I just bought a pair of pants from them today but I will bring them back if I have to.


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## mallardhunter

I can't believe a business would do that :eyeroll:


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## Drew Willemsen

uke:


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## curty

If its true ...then I think its time for a e-mail brigade.flood them with your thoughts,Now ....not after they buy up the state.


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## J.D.

Cabelas has done the same thing down here in Nebraska.....you even see them advertise the hunts in their catalogs.


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## mallardhunter

Wow, I can't believe a place like that would buy up land like that uke: Now I don't want one even close to here. I will stick to buying from the local store.


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## g/o

12


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## BROWNDOG

How many people can boycott Gander at one Time????????????????LOTS


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## octnov

:eyeroll: uke: :sniper: 
Nodakers-
I just read this and quivered with disgust, I have no idea if Gander or other biggies are doing this but it was enough to make me wake up.
I will try to handle this in such a way as to not offend some people, but I told you so! Several months ago I wrote a post about a subject like this and got chewed up and spit out by a few Nodakers. As an Illinois hunter who first hand has seen what BIG MONEY will do to the common folk here in Illinois, I have issued several warnings about what could happen up there. Be aware, be ever up on the issues and let these big $$$$ guides and corporations know you won't stand for it. I come there yearly to hunt for a week and if it boiled down to freelancing as we do or using a guide or a big corporations land and paying I wouldn't bother to come. I know a few of you would applaud this, but for those of you who are concerned about real issues facing hunting then take heed. As I said earlier this fall when I came up I noticed that two or three times as much land was posted as 2 yeras ago. When I checked the postings I found Grand Forks and Fargo addresses on the posting signs. If you want an issue to argue(not NR vs Res stuff) here is the one to challenge. Confront Gander, ask questions, be persistent, don't make a fuss and then get quiet. Their is a tendancy on the part of big corp's to accept gripes and the "We will if you don't" threats by people and then after a month or so when it gets quiet again, go on and do what they wanted to do anyway. Persistence is the key. I don't live their ,have no real say and have made an enemy or 12 by some of my postings, but you have the greatest waterfowl hunting state anywhere, with plenty of open access to all, don't be passive like we were here many years ago and let the $$$$$ people shove you out. This year, not waterfowling but with Deer hunting in our state many found no hunting postings where they had been able to get in before. Bought out by $$$leases for corporate incentives and the regular guy was left out AGAIN. Like I said I don't know if that is what Gander is doing or not but you all better get on the stick and find out before you have to pay to hunt. Just Love to duck hunt! Sid


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## Scraper

"Outdoor Expeditions is another Gander Mountain service that will help us fulfill our vision to help our customers create outdoor memories," said Gander Mountain CEO Mark Baker.

Sounds like all we are going to be left with is outdoor memories, thanks Gander Mountain: Mission Accomplished


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## buckseye

Cabelas has been leasing land by the JClark Salyer NWR for years. Alot of us lost some of the best hunting ground in the area because they are willing to come in and disrupt age old familiy traditions. They (Cabelas) suck also!!!!

And yes I did pitch a *****, but it landed on deaf ears.


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## Rick Acker

I was down there again over thanksgiving...Here's even more crappy news! The average guide(As of right now there are not a ton of them) is paying about 5 bucks an acre to lease up land in that area.(That's the going rate) Gander Mountain is supposedly offering double that! How can the average guy compete with that?


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

uke:


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## njsimonson

> I'm not a huge fan of GM as it is. I still remember last Summer at GM in Lakeville, Mn. I asked the sales guy if they had any Bigfoots and he took me to the shoe department


ROTFL!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

I am about to embark on a very scary quest! I am going to go through my credit card and checking statements and then make copies of them with all of my outdoors purchases highlighted (excluding acct. #'s) and send them along with my letter to show my disapproval.

The scary part is actually seeing what I've spent!!!!!!!!!!


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## Field Hunter

Call the number g/o put on this thread....you will be enlightened! Gander Mountain OWNs the assets of Outdoor Expeditions (OE) as of the last month or so. OE is a booking agent that helps to line up mainly out of state hunters with places to hunt. They book through outfitters, as of right now in the Ellendale area and all across SD. They also, through word of mouth, book directly with farmers in the area. The client books the hunt with OE, who lines up lodging and a farmer in the program. The farmer then shows the client the land involved and turns the client loose on unguided hunts and never sees him again. Quote as it was told to me, "times are changing" and "It's about the money"

A bunch of questions come to mind:

1. Do the clients ever hunt PLOTS or state land.....there's lots of it in the Ellendale area.
2. Who is the outfitter/guide? OE is just a booking agent! The farmer is just selling access to HIS land. Is there a BIG loophole here?
3. Does a Minneapolis based booking agent have any regulations put on them when they line up freelance hunters in a hotel, provide a place to hunt in an area with game and then turn the hunters loose, so to speak.
4. If Gander Mountain is LEASING land and having a company that they own, OE, line up the clients IS THIS NOT OUTFITTING?
5. Where does the Gnf Stand on this and other operations like it? Is anybody watching out for this at that department?
6. Is there a contradiction in holding meetings in a store, by mainly freelance hunters, that is an outfitter?

I haven't ever been big on boycotts but I WILL NEVER PURCHASE ANYTHING AT GANDER MOUNTAIN AGAIN, as long as they are operating outfitting services in the state of ND.

There are other sources available to you guys that come through to hunt. A family owned Fargo store comes to mind. Granted they have their faults, but as far as I can see they are not outfitting in ND. AND! They actually say "Hello" when you enter their store.


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## jamartinmg2

Just a thought.... does anyone out there have any computer experience to set up a "Boycott Gander Mtn, site, where a guy could go in and fill out a web form, letter that would be emailed to the Gander Mtn executive offices? I saw something very similar to this with the Dan "Rathergate" issue a couple of months ago. Pretty cool. You would visit a site called, I believe, "Rathergate.com". Once in the site, you could type up a protest letter urging CBS to get rid of the old windbag. The site would automatically send it to CBS as well as their largest advertisers. I wish I had the know-how to do something like that in this case.


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## g/o

12


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## Rick Acker

I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears also, but you can express your displeasure on GM customer service page by going here www.gandermountain.com/customerservice


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## DuckBuster

As far as I'm concerned, Gander is acting as an outfitter. Fieldhunter brings up some very good questions. Are there regulations on out of state guides and outfitters? Hopefully, there is some @ GNF watching this very closely. This is a very dangerous area that is being entered here. This could blow up so fast it'll destroy ND hunting.

G/O - There is some money exchanged in ND. The farmers are not leasing there land for free. And from the way it sounds, Gander is contacting them (the farmer) to let them know who is coming and when (read BOOKING).

Remmi - I highly recommend not adding up those receipts :wink: I did that last summer with shooting sports expenses... I'll just say the rest of the shooting team has not let me forget how I made it tougher to enjoy those days out on the trap range or sporting clays courses. 

Regardless of whether Gander is listed as a Guide or Outfitter, they are tying up land that may have been open to freelancers. Therefore, I WILL NOT SPEND ANOTHER PENNY THERE!!!


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## g/o

12


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## mrgoose67

since i have been hunting all the way down the flyway , the old days of hunting for free are coming to an end . if it is not a outfitter it is a group of people paying to hunt, but really it is the land owner right to do what he wants with his land after all he pays the taxes the free hunter doesnt? just my take on it , still suucks . :roll:


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## DuckBuster

G/O - I'm not sure what the regulations are, but I was hoping they would eliminate the out of state guide/outfitters, in this case, Gander. You are right, they (Gander) are being very opportunistic. I hope they realize how upset it will make some of their customers. Yes, others will be happy to have this opportunity available. As far as the farmers are concerned, I believe they should be able to do what they want with their land. I'm certainly not faulting them for trying to scrape up a bit of cash to make things easier on themselves. I'm sure very few people would turn down some extra cash.

I just don't think it should be legal for companies to come in and lock down land to turn a profit off of wild game - Retail, guides/outfitters, or any company for that matter.

I don't want to start the whole "Whose game is it" battle... It gets us nowhere, we've proven that on countless threads.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

jamartinmg2 said:


> Just a thought.... does anyone out there have any computer experience to set up a "Boycott Gander Mtn, site, where a guy could go in and fill out a web form, letter that would be emailed to the Gander Mtn executive offices? I saw something very similar to this with the Dan "Rathergate" issue a couple of months ago. Pretty cool. You would visit a site called, I believe, "Rathergate.com". Once in the site, you could type up a protest letter urging CBS to get rid of the old windbag. The site would automatically send it to CBS as well as their largest advertisers. I wish I had the know-how to do something like that in this case.


http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html


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## Gary Bottger

"Are there regulations on out of state guides and outfitters?" Yes they do have very strict guidlines on out of staters coming in an guiding. I think it's to the tune of 2 grand or something unless you are sponsored by a local guide service in ND. You also have to attend a class and be a certified guide working under another outfitter for 2 years. Don't quote me on that but that's what I remember.

The above would be why the client would get the run of the lease without a guide if you ask me. I think my first question would be about the liability - where does it fall - land owner??? Someone shoots someone in their party and the land owner gets sued for everything? I've sene it happen down here when the proper insurance was not issued.


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## octnov

Sad but true, the bottom line for large companies and business' is all that matters. They claim to be pro hunter and pro conservation, but would sell their soul to the devil to make the big $$$$$. I just don't trust anything they say anymore. I hope that Gander can prove that we are all wrong in our thoughts here and what we have read, but I am not holding my breath until they do prove us wrong. I really don't fault the poor farmer who suddenly finds out that he can make a alot of $$$$ by doing nothing but letting guys hunt his land as many have always done and now make money,even though the companies probably aren't being fair with them at all. This whole thing is sad if true. 
Sid


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## buckseye

A land owner doesn't need a license to guide on his own land.


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## jamartinmg2

Chris Hustad said:


> jamartinmg2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just a thought.... does anyone out there have any computer experience to set up a "Boycott Gander Mtn, site, where a guy could go in and fill out a web form, letter that would be emailed to the Gander Mtn executive offices? I saw something very similar to this with the Dan "Rathergate" issue a couple of months ago. Pretty cool. You would visit a site called, I believe, "Rathergate.com". Once in the site, you could type up a protest letter urging CBS to get rid of the old windbag. The site would automatically send it to CBS as well as their largest advertisers. I wish I had the know-how to do something like that in this case.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.petitiononline.com/petition.html
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris....

I'd be happy to explore creating the petition on the site Chris mentions in his post. Anybody any good at wording these things? I'd venture to guess I could create it on the site, even though I have not read through the procedure, but I'm horrible with coming up with the exact wording on what to put down on the petition itself. Chris.... is this petition, or link to the petition, something that could be posted on this site, or would it be considered a conflict of interest since this is a forum where all viewpoints are heard? I would imagine a link might be ok, since you would physically have to go to the petition site to sign it. The post could even have a disclaimer to the effect that Nodak does not endorse any viewpoint found on the site... yada, yada....


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## Bob Kellam

Just a note to everyone here, Call the number g/o posted, be prepared to ask questions and try to hold your temper, When I called a while back I kinda went nuts 

Bob


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## Field Hunter

Then let that landowner find his own clients. As usual someone trying to change the thread! It's about the Outfitter lining up land for the farmer.


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## Bob Kellam

Here is what is in the North Dakota Century Code for licensing of Guides and Outfitters

*20.1-03-36*. *Guides and outfitters to be licensed. 
An individual may not act as a guide or outfitter or advertise or otherwise represent to the public as a guide or outfitter without first
securing a license in accordance with this chapter and the rules of the director.
20.1-03-36.1. Fee for guide or outfitter license.
1. The annual fee to receive a hunting guide license is one hundred dollars for a
resident and four hundred dollars for a nonresident.
2. The annual fee to receive a fishing outfitter license is one hundred dollars for a
resident and four hundred dollars for a nonresident. The annual fee to receive a
fishing outfitter license is fifty dollars for a resident and two hundred dollars for a
nonresident if the individual applying for the license has paid for a hunting guide or
outfitter license for the same year.
3. The annual fee for a resident to receive a hunting outfitter license is two hundred fifty
dollars for under ten thousand acres [4046.86 hectares] and five hundred dollars for
ten thousand acres [4046.86 hectares] and over on which the outfitter provides
services. The annual fee for a nonresident to receive a hunting outfitter license is
two thousand dollars. The acreage must be presented by the county with a list of
lessors by county in every application for outfitter licensure. The annual permit fee
for day leasing is two hundred dollars. The acreage day leased by county for the
preceding year must be provided to receive a day leasing permit.
4. A license is not required for a person to provide services on real property that person
owns or leases for the primary pursuit of bona fide agricultural interests or for a
nonprofit organization registered with the secretary of state. 
The director shall determine the number of acres by county exempted from licensure by this
subsection and shall publish the results. The director shall provide written
information to the public on the possible liability exposure for outfitting under this
subsection and on the benefits of liability insurance and proper training.
20.1-03-36.2. Guides and outfitters licenses.
1. Each licensee shall carry the license while afield and show the license to any law
enforcement officer upon request.
2. Hunting guide and fishing outfitter licenses are not transferable.
3. Guide and outfitter licenses expire on December thirty-first of each year unless
revoked at earlier date.
4. The department shall deposit in the game and fish department private habitat and
access improvement fund any funds collected under section 20.1-03-36.1 or this
section from hunting guides and outfitters which are not used for the administration
of this chapter.
20.1-03-37. Guides and outfitters license qualifications.
1. An individual who is eighteen years of age or more may apply for a guide or outfitter
license.
2. An applicant for a hunting guide license and an outfitter acting as a guide shall
provide the director proof that the individual is certified in adult cardiopulmonary
resuscitation or its equivalent and in standard or first aid or its equivalent.
3. An applicant for a hunting outfitter or fishing outfitter license shall provide to the
director proof that the individual and the individual's business operation are covered
by general liability insurance against loss or expense due to accident or injury from
outfitting services, at a minimum of one hundred thousand dollars per individual and
three hundred thousand dollars per accident.
4. An individual must hold a hunting guide license for two years to be eligible to apply
for a hunting outfitter license.
5. The director may not issue a license to an individual who has been convicted of a
state or federal criminal game or fish violation in the last three years or whose
license to hunt or fish is under suspension or revocation. As used in this chapter,
"conviction" means a finding of guilt, a guilty plea, a plea of no contest, a plea of nolo
contendere, a judgment of conviction even though the court suspended execution of
a sentence in accordance with subsection 3 of section 12.1-32-02, or a deferred
imposition of sentence in accordance with subsection 4 of section 12.1-32-02 or an
equivalent statute. The term does not include a finding of guilt which is reversed on
appeal.
6. If an application is for a business association, the applicant must be an agent of the
association to be held personally responsible for the conduct of the licensed
outfitter's operations, in addition to the association.
7. An applicant for a hunting guide license must have legally hunted for part of each of
any three years in a manner directly contributing to the individual's experience and
competency as a guide.
20.1-03-38. Licensing guides and outfitters by the department - Rules -Inspections.
1. The director may license guides and outfitters and may adopt rules to regulate
guides and outfitters. If the director requests a trade secret or proprietary
information, the director shall request the information on a separate form, and that
information is confidential and is not a public record subject to section 44-04-18 and
section 6 of article XI of the Constitution of North Dakota. The director may release
this information, however, if it is aggregated so as not to identify any guide, outfitter,
or client. Before engaging in rulemaking activities with respect to guides and
outfitters, the director shall appoint a committee composed of guides, outfitters, and
interested individuals and shall consult with the committee when preparing rules.
2. The director shall periodically inspect or cause to be inspected all outfitter
businesses. All records, facilities, and equipment kept or used by the outfitter are
open to inspection by the director or a game warden.
3. The director shall perform a background search for criminal and game and fish
violations on each applicant on initial application and on each renewal.
4. The director may not issue a license to an individual to be a hunting guide or hunting
outfitter unless the individual is proficient in the application of state and federal laws
on the hunting of wild game. The director shall create and administer a written
examination to test proficiency of hunting guides and outfitters in these laws. The
director shall administer examinations at least twice a year; however, an
examination may not be given within ninety days after the previous examination.
 20.1-03-39. Guides and outfitters restrictions - Administrative sanctions.
1. The license of a guide or outfitter may be denied, revoked, or suspended, or placed
on probation by the director if:
a. The licensee, while carrying out the business of guiding or outfitting, engages in
conduct detrimental to the image and professional integrity of the guiding and
outfitting industry;
b. The licensee willfully and substantially misrepresented that person's facilities,
prices, equipment, services, or hunting or fishing opportunities as a guide or
outfitter;
c. The licensee has been convicted of an offense not listed in subsection 2 which
is determined by the director to have a direct bearing on the licensee's ability to
serve the public as a guide or outfitter;
d. The licensee is addicted to the use of intoxicating liquors, narcotics, or
stimulants to the extent the licensee's performance of professional duties is
affected; or
e. The licensee has become not qualified, or has violated any rule for the licensing
of a guide or outfitter by the director.
2. The license of a guide or outfitter may be revoked if:
a. The licensee is convicted of violating state or federal criminal law pertaining to
hunting, fishing, or trapping;
b. The licensee acted as a hunting guide or hunting outfitter on land owned or
private land enrolled by the department for the purposes of hunting or on land
for which the department pays in lieu of tax payments; or
c. The licensee provided guiding or outfitting services to a person that had not
obtained the appropriate license for the species sought by that person.

3. For the purpose of administrative sanctions, an outfitter is liable if a guide
intentionally violates a state or federal criminal law pertaining to hunting, fishing, or
trapping if the outfitter knowingly aids in the violation or knows of the violation but
fails to report the violation to the department within a reasonable time. A guide is
liable if a client violates a state or federal criminal law pertaining to hunting, fishing,
or trapping if the guide knowingly aids in the violation or knows of the violation and
the guide or client fail to report the violation to the department within a reasonable
time.
4. Notwithstanding chapters 45-11 and 47-25, another person may not use a name,
business name, fictitious name, trade name, internet address, world wide web
uniform resource identifier, place of business, or telephone number of an outfitter
who has been convicted of a violation at least three years from the time of the
conviction except on permission from the director after a determination by the
director that the new business is significantly separate from the previous business.
20.1-03-40. Penalty. Any individual providing guide or outfitter services without a license
is guilty of a class B misdemeanor. Each client guided is subject to separate and distinct
offenses. In addition to this penalty, the director may initiate civil action in a court of competent
jurisdiction as necessary to enforce this chapter or any rule adopted under this chapter, including
an injunction to restrain a violation, without proof of actual damages sustained by any person.
Any individual guiding or outfitting while under suspension, revocation, or denial is guilty of a
class A misdemeanor. Any individual who commits for remuneration or compensation an act of
fraud involving hunting or fishing or any individual who illegally takes or causes death to fish or
wildlife for remuneration or compensation may be prosecuted for theft, fraud, or conspiracy under
title 12.1 and is, upon conviction, liable for the higher amount between the actual compensation
received or the value of the fish or wildlife illegally taken or killed.*


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## Field Hunter

Here's the number again.....877-482-3982.....call it!!!!!! and hold on to your temper....if you can! They are blantant in their regard towards freelance hunters both NR and resident......If you want to play you're going to PAY! What is Mr. Ron Shara's connection here. (Just happens to own a bunch of land in Linton area and he's pictured on the web site!) AND go to the web site...you'll love it.


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## Rick Acker

I just called. The lady I spoke to told me if hunting is going to survive in the future, it's going to have to be commercialized! They ARE catering to the average hunter! Somebody who doesn't want to deal with the hassel of finding landowners and develope relationships, bla, bla, bla...I did manage to keep my temper! :******:


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## 870 XPRS

Here are some of my favorite testimonials from that site.



> South Dakota Pheasant Hunt: November 2001.
> Travis Damrow, Sheboygan, WI:
> 
> "Having the opportunity to hunt wild pheasants and to develop more of a bond with our dogs. Seeing the whole "wild" experience of SD."





> Argentina 3 Day Dove Hunt: June 2001.
> Clayton Johnson, Americus, GA:
> 
> "1,111 birds in 1-day."


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## Squeeker

I really like the idea of a website that would automatically e-mail the execs at Gander Mountain and any other affiliations.

All you would need is a webhosting company that can provide you with a CGI bin as well as something like ASP or Perl (web scripting languages), in addition to your website.

I am not willing to build something like that (it very well may constitute SPAM of some sort, the legalities could be endless) but I could provide websites where you could grab the code to do that sort of thing. It is actually quite simple and could easily be done with a bit of web programming knowledge. PM me if you are in fact looking for code snippets that could e-mail people at the click of a button (computer programmer by trade).

Disclaimer: For the record, I do not support any mass e-mailing of any sort, regardless of their use. All resources I may provide are for educational purposes and I do not take responsibility for their usage!...


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

I had an interesting call as well. Basically she told me to go F*** myself!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Oh, and when I asked why they would want to lose our business in Gander Mountain she said "how many people out there can't afford a few hundred dollars for hunting? Look how much the average gun and dog cost"
:******: :******: :******: :******: :******:


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## Gary Bottger

I tried to play the out of stater looking to get in but ended up getting P_ssed at a few stupid coments then was in the same boat that Remmi was in. All I got from it was they are in this for the money and that's it.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Has anybody printed the press release and brought it into GM to get their reaction yet?


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## DuckBuster

Chris- I spoke to one of the part time employees of Gander who happens to work with me also... He said that he had no idea Gander was doing this. It would be very interesting to get the reaction of some of the managers of their stores about losing this much business. The stores certainly will see the loss, but Gander- the company- will probably make up the difference with this division. I would think the managers would not appreciate the hit to their bonuses. Although I've heard Gander takes very good care of the store managers... sending them on fishing/hunting trips, etc.


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## Miller

If you want to get local attention you need to look at it 2ways

a) Get guys together and picket Gander Mountain on a particular day

b) Call all of the local medias beforehand letting them know it's taking place. If I know the ND media, it's slow, and would be dying to put this on air.

When everyone in Fargo sees what's going on, the message will get out.

And yes, I'll be there to picket too.


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## g/o

12


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## nodakoutdoors.com

g/o, my intent was the store manager. They are the one's who'll relay the message.


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## goose1965

I just got done sending an e-mail to our governor at [email protected]

I included the article from the Minneapolis Tribune with the phone number.

I also recommended that he call and talk to the friendly reps they have.

I agree with Miller, if we are all this p****d off, then we should organize a picketing of Gander Mountain, maybe even the capital steps of ND.

I'm free on Friday, if anyone else is in for picketing!!!

Make your voices heard!!!!


----------



## Remmi_&amp;_I

I'm in for the picketing as well, but friday is no good for me. I'll be in Stanley for work friday afternoon/evening meeting with clients! But I would definately be in to protect our hunting.

It is hard enought to keep spots you already have. I am fortunate enough to know a couple of landowners that allow me access, but it is getting even tougher to get onto their land now. I'll always get permission from time to time because we help them out by doing various things, but it is getting to be less and less each year!


----------



## Ron Gilmore

True Buckeye, but once he takes compensation for allowing access he no longer is protected from liability under ND laws. Biggest reason that many farmers in my home area did not like the suit filed to overturn the trespass law.

Land owners have a right to control access and that never should be part of any discussion. However when the use of the land starts affecting the management of game by the G&F should disqualify them for any help from the state.


----------



## g/o

12


----------



## Dick Monson

g/o, bingo. It just gets worse and worse. This would be an excellent place for the ETREE when the petition gets up and running. Press releases too.


----------



## rap

well i found this thread interesting. i bought some decoys there this fall and will be buying lots of ice fishing items soon... won't be going back to gander mt. though..


----------



## Old Hunter

I just moved so I have been out of the loop. I just picked up on this thread. It makes me sick. I have spend thousands in that store since they opened. I was their first customer. I have gotten to know the manager a little bit nice fellow. The nest time I am in Fargo I will nicely hand him my Gander Mtn. credit card it will be cut in pieces. I will explain to him why I will not walk through his doors again. I am done doing business there.


----------



## Shu

GM went public recently (GMTN). Maybe if the stockholders knew they were screwing some of their customers the company might change its ways. Yahoo Finance message board to get the word out?


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## mallard

I sent them an E-mail last night,and of course no response.Has any one thought of calling Ed Schultz?Chris you know Eddy,how about giving him the scoop on this.


----------



## leadshot

Who's Ed Schultz???


----------



## Draker16

This is just sad, and I guarantee they'll never see a dime from m

BOYCOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT time


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## Rick Acker

Let's be careful not pi#s off landowners on this. They have every right to do what they would like with there land. That is not the issue!


----------



## djleye

This is the response I got after e-mailing the customer service dept at Gander. I guess she really didn't have a clue what I was talking about. They think it is ok to send hunters to G/O's as long as they do not lease the land. This is crap. If you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem. I will be returning a LOT of stuff the next few days to Gander. I would also hope that after tommorrow we do not meet there for Delta anymore!!!! Lets find another spot and let them know why tommorrow night!!!

Dear Dr. Levin

Thank you very much for taking the time to contact us on an issue that has been brought to our attention from a few of our customers. We have not been able to locate the source of these very serious false accusations to date. We sure would appreciate any direction you may be able to provide so that we can address this concern directly with the source.

Gander Mountain has recognized that the topic of access is one of the most significant issues that our lifestyle faces today. With more and more land being closed to anglers and hunters it has become increasingly difficult for outdoor enthusiast to enjoy the outdoors as they see fit. This issue is one of the very reasons that our company formed an outdoor travel company called Outdoor Expeditions on October 4th of this year. Since October we have been very busy locating and contacting existing outfitters throughout North America, including in the state of North Dakota, in order to find the very best destinations that we can offer to our customers. We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way, but rather working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access to our customers.

We very much appreciate your loyalty to Gander Mountain in taking the time to address your concerns with us directly. You can rest assure that we will diligently address these accusations as we take every concern of our customers very seriously. Please do not hesitate to contact myself or our staff in Fargo if there is anything we can assist you with in the future.

Cordially,

Chris Bahl
Brand Manager
Gander Mountain


----------



## leadshot

> but rather working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access to our customers


He just blew his cover... What a Jerk!!!


----------



## Remmi_&amp;_I

uke:


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## Bob Kellam

Can a Travel Agency not be classified as an Outfitter?

If that is the case we have a loop hole big enough to get a 747 through.

Bob


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## FACE

So the g/os and landowners that Gander furnishes clients to will expand and hoard more land. Back to shopping ma & pa hunting stores before they get wiped out.


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## curty

Just got off the phone with a Motel owner in Ellendale..he hasnt heard anything about it yet.

Cant beleive the website of outdoor expeditions.Single occupancy rooms for an ADDITIONAL $90.00???? Holy crap we dont charge near that with 4 guys 10 dogs and the town wh**re.Wonder whos maken the big bucks here.......

:******: :******: :******: :******: :******: :******: :******: :******:


----------



## Remmi_&amp;_I

curty said:


> Single occupancy rooms for an ADDITIONAL $90.00???? Holy crap we dont charge near that with 4 guys 10 dogs and the town wh**re.


If I didn't have such a wonderful gf, I would turn into your best client! hahahhahahahaha! :beer:


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## Canada_Hunter

I wont buy anything from these suckers!!! uke: 
A this rate wou guys from ND wont have any hunting left in 10 years :eyeroll:


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## goosehtr4life

:eyeroll: Curty, I was thinking the same thing....No hotel owner I know in any small town charges those rates..So who is making this extra money??? This phoney comapany Gander set up that's who...Any fool willing to pay that much must be as stupid as they come...Can you imagine going to check in and seeing what other people are paying...wouldn't you feel like you'd been taken to the bank....

Gander has to answer a question....what is in this for them...Cash,Cash and more cash...no one does anything for free....This is to make extra money plain and simple...And this shows they do not care about you or me...just the almight dollar.....


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## DLoutdoors

I'm not sure if I understand why everyone is reacting to this the way you all are? This is nothing new my fellow ND hunters. Is it because it's a familiar name like Gander Mountain? What about Cabala's? They own land in ND, I haven't spent a dime there since they opened in East GF. The writing has been on the wall for years now. It's been stated here many times by many hunters including myself that hunting as we know it is ending. If you don't believe me come to Devils Lake during the waterfowl season. You should see the Outdoor shows here filming, the Outfitters, the Guides, even local resorts are leasing up land for them and there clients such as Woodland Resort. Five years ago I doubt there were many guys who hunted as hard and as much as me. I use to take the whole month of October off. Three years ago I bought a brand new Lund boat and took up fishing because I knew that what I would be teaching my son about the outdoors was not going to be with a shotgun and decoys but with a fishing rod. Each year I hunt less and less. There are sad days coming my friends, I hope it will stop before it's too late but I feel it already is.


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## mallard

Dan,That is exactly the same message they sent me today.


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## curty

DLO...were acting this way because we are trying to save what we have left. Some states did nothing and lost most of it to commercial hunting.(pay to play).Its better than sitting on our butts doing nothing about it.

And also because we can,we will, and we ARE! going to win the outcome of our states hunting policies. I truly believe as a (whole) group we can preserve what we have here in North Dakota!


----------



## djleye

> Holy crap we dont charge near that with 4 guys 10 dogs and the town wh**re.


For just a little levity.....makes me wish I had won the weekend at Curty's place!!!!


----------



## Cooper

I sent a copy of this forum to the editor of the outdoors section of the Fargo Forum news paper. Maybe it will get the ball rolling.


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## concerned_citizen

Well guys, I just spoke my thoughts on the subject and there seemed to be some protest. I am not in anyway affiliated with Gander Mountain. I have lived in North Dakota all my life, southwest of Jamestown, and for someone to accuse me of that is just wrong. Take that how you may. I was sticking up for something and saying bad about nobody. Maybe a guy shouldn't have gotten started on this site with his opinions. As far as giving names I won't, I don't want the phone calls. Occupation: Farmer.


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## leadshot

This one should flare the tempers. Especially coming from someone with 1 post. Is this a Gander Mountain invester ????


----------



## JFarsdale

I did not know this was happening. I will not by products from this store again and I am going to tell every one I know. I also e:mail Gander mt Customer service. I feel every one that feels the same way I do should do the same thing. If we do not by there products thay will have to move on. I am going back to sheilds


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## Old Hunter

The vast majority of nonresidents hunting this state are freelancers. They are the nonresidents that that use the motels, mom and pop dinners , gas stations, and other businesses. This will be devistating to you. There will be no reason to ask for permission because the land will be tied up by a huge Minn. corporation. The cost will be too high for most of you to afford the trip. I am asking Minnesota and Wisconsin hunters to voice their opinions to Gander Mt on this issue. If you want people like this to control the hunting in North Dakota keep silent. If you want to help :

CALL GANDER MT. AND VOICE YOUR OPINION


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

I don't know about the rest of you, but I think this guys profile name has some synonymous meanings:

concerned_citizen = *concerned_investor*
concerned_citizen = *concerned_manager*
concerned_citizen = *concerned_commissioned sales rep*

What do you guys think?


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## Rick Acker

For the record...Many of us have talked to them! Call them yourself, the number was posted by Bob in page 1 of this thread!


----------



## FACE

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/community/trips/tripstag.jhtml
Read the caption in the pic where the guy is blowing a call.
Cabelas has been doing this crap from the getgo. Why is Gander getting all the gruff? 
These corparations care only about there own profits. Take Cabelas for example...I used to be able to find quite a bit of specialty stuff for hunting there that was difficult to find because they were the "worlds foremost outfitter" but now they only sell what is the most profitable which is primarily their own namebrand junk which for the most part is crap!! Also the store here in Owatonna,Mn has been turning more into a stinking gift shop for years now! For example: That Musher's Secret Wax for dogs paws I'd buy at Cabelas every year that I recomended for ice in the paws, well, I found out last week that they discontinued selling it because it wasn't very profitable! Sure I bought one container a year but they had like a dozen on the shelf and they all were sold!! So just because they don't sell hundreds a year now it is more difficult for me to find!! It is good stuff though!! :lol: Anyway it has gotten to the point that I will use Gander and Cabelas and Scheels to research a product to see if it worth purchasing for my use and check every possible avenue to find the best prices like internet,etc. Cause I ain't made out of money and I'm sick of the over commercializtion of a hobby I enjoy and spend way too much money on!! Us little guys can't make a difference in what the big corps do anyways. They will be their own downfall when they spread themselves out so thin with megastores all over and when us little guys are shut out of the freelance hunting then who will keep them in business? I know, they, like Cabelas, will become just mega-outdoor gift shops!


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## Bob Kellam

I stated in a post months ago that if you think that all of the "big boys" don't already have a footing in ND that you should pull you head out of the sand.

Most know that the average ND and Non-Resident freelancer is against the commercilization of North Dakota' state owned natural resources, so they sneak around in the shadows. All I can do is voice my opinion when something like this comes to light.

I may become a minority as a freelance hunter in the future, but my love and respect for North Dakota, and its natural resources will keep me fighting the battles that I feel need to be fought to preserve the tradition and heritage of freelance hunting for my Grandchildren.

Bob


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## mngooser

I have an idea. How about everyone on this thread post up:

Name:
Occupation:
Location:

This should clear up the credibilty issue.

I will start:

Name: Jeff Foss
Occupation: Teacher
Location: Sebeka, MN

This includes you concerned_citizen. I am willing to withold judgment about you until I see more in your profile.

Let's keep this site an honest one!


----------



## djleye

Dan Levin
Optometrist
West Fargo, ND


----------



## GooseBuster3

Tyler Ellenson
College Student
Fargo ND


----------



## curty

Curt Stibal
Motel Owner
Lidgerwood N.D.


----------



## Remmi_&amp;_I

Chad Bjornson
Bismarck, ND


----------



## Bob Kellam

Bob Kellam
Design (civil)
Fargo ND


----------



## Rick Acker

Rick Acker aka(Pheasant Freak!)
Operations Manager-Radio Broadcasting-Grand Forks, N.D.


----------



## mallard

Dean Sonstelie floor coverings installer Fargo,ND


----------



## jd mn/nd

J.D. Lundgren II 
Owner of an Insurance Agency 
St.Cloud, MN

And no I don't shop at G.M. or Cabelas I don't like the stores or their snotty staffs.


----------



## turkishgold11

Justin De Boer
Cell Phone Salesman
Lynden, WA

!! Cupped Wings and Blue Skies !! :thumb:


----------



## joel barber

Joel Barber
Risk Manager
Birmingham, AL

A long way from ND but the week we spend in ND every year keeps me wishing I was still there and waiting for next year.


----------



## jhegg

Jim Heggeness
Technical Services, American Crystal Sugar Company
Fargo, ND


----------



## curty

For some of you that have doubts Gander Mtn. is in the business of G/O operations here it is.

I called Outdoor Expeditions today and talked with JayAnderson, the owner of the business. Yes they have land in the Ellendale area that they set guys up to hunt on. He told me they do not buy or lease land..so land owners can allow other sportsman to hunt it, not only their clients, instead they pay for a access or tresspassing fee. 
And yes they are affiliated with Gander....The business was about to close so Gander Mountain is taking the baton. (quote)
And in responce to Bob Kellems e-mail reply where he was told that Gander is not in the G/O biz, I was told by him he was in Fargo Yesterday the 1st. of Dec. having a meeting with the DNR about obtaining a (North Dakota Outfitters Licence) for the upcoming year. Although he said the DNR and him agreed to disagree. I was also told they are targeting distant sportsman and not the local hunters...Guys who want the once in a lifetime type vacation hunt. Just saying it as it was said to me...Curty


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## triplej

Can you blame the farmers for wanting to make a buck. Do you guys that hunt on there land give them money? Farming is a hard business these days and I don't blame them if they want to make some money by leasing there land. I was recently out in ND hunting and we had no trouble finding places to hunt. With as much land as there is availible, I doubt that anyone is leasing it ALL up. There is alot of state and federal land there that anyone can hunt also.


----------



## Miller

Since when do farmers need a bookie to make a buck?


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## g/o

12


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## curty

triplej...I cant blame the farmers one bit for trying to make a few extra bucks. Miller said it best.

I am also glad you found plenty of land to hunt on,cause in the future if things keep going the way they are, that hunt you had will only be in your memory, unless your rich. If you have kids that like to hunt they better be rich too.We Nodackers want to protect this resourse for everyone, me, you, res, non res,everyone not just a limited few that can affords it.
Just my two pennies worth triplej


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## curty

G/O your are right , he stated to me more than once he was in Ellendale talking with groups of hunters he sent down there.That was only a couple of weeks ago. Thanks for the info g/o


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## Draker16

Todd Mattson
electrician, College Student
Grand Forks, ND


----------



## g/o

12


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## 870 XPRS

G/O, i might not agree with what you do, but I can say one thing. You are a class act, and your head is screwed on straight. I still remember the day I stirred the pot in a forum and got you to join nodakoutdoors. I'll give myself a pat on the back for the insight you've brought in and the debates that have let a bunch of us get through the afternoons.


----------



## g/o

12


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## curty

Nice to know that g/o.... keep the info coming


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## brdhunt36

Farmres are not to blame in this, they only want to make money just like everyone else. GM Cabelas and any other bigt money knows these things. The small towns in ND is more then willing to take on these kind of people it might help them get through the tough times during the winter ect...... I know as i grew up in a small town, some of the land that I hunted when I was growing up is now closed to hunting becasue of doctors lawyers so if it's not GM Cabelas buying it up it will be your docotors lawyers form the big cities or even from your home towns you live in now. No matter who you boycot there will be someone else there to buy the land or lease the land. call you congressman senator or who ever, they can make more of a differnce then you think.

Jerry Ralph
lumber yard forman
Williston ND


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## Bob Kellam

I Would like to thank g/o for all of the help, cooperation and insight he has given on this topic. I met face to face with him last Sunday afternoon, He, just like many of us cares about North Dakota.

16. "Guide" means an individual who is employed by or contracts with a licensed
outfitter to help the outfitter furnish personal services for the conduct of outdoor
recreational activities directly related to the conduct of activities for which the
employing outfitter is licensed.

25. "Outfitter" means an individual who, while engaging in any of the acts enumerated in
this subsection in any manner, advises or otherwise holds the individual's business
operation out to the public for hire or consideration; provides facilities or services for
consideration; or maintains, leases, or otherwise uses equipment or
accommodations for consideration for the conduct of outdoor recreational activities,
including hunting animals or birds and fishing on lakes, reservoirs, rivers, and
streams. An outfitter may act as a guide. The term does not include a person
holding title or an equitable interest in business operations if the primary purpose of
the business operation is to provide food or lodging to the general public, chamber of
commerce activities, travel agencies, or others that offer *free* information to attract
outdoor and recreational use of their communities.

*20.1-03-36. Guides and outfitters to be licensed. 
An individual may not act as a guide or outfitter or advertise or otherwise represent to the public as a guide or outfitter without first 
securing a license in accordance with this chapter and the rules of the director

Curty Jay can talk as smooth as he wants to but these excerpts from the Century Code are pretty clear to me

Bob*


----------



## KEN W

G/O....good post....one question though...why isn't the G/O association going after them?After all they are giving you a black eye.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

KEN W said:


> G/O....good post....one question though...why isn't the G/O association going after them?After all they are giving you a black eye.


Good point!


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## curty

Bob Kellem, OHH it was a smooth conversation, but I kept my head straight so to get as much info as possible. I just gave a brief statment of our conversation..there was much more. What a joker trying to blow smoke up my butt :eyeroll: He has what I would call a LARGE HEAD.
Take g/o as an example...small time feller whos doing things the legal route ( I believe). Then you have a guy that has friends in the right places with millions of dollars and screws the system and does things illegally.
Why isn't anyone pressing charges against this company then? does anyone know? And also who would be the proper authority to make a complaint to?


----------



## gandergrinder

Nodakoutdoors investigative reports. The power of information. Nice work gentlemen.

G/O,
I must apologize for my rantings on some past posts. You seem to be a pretty straight up guy. I think if you were the representative of all in your business then things would be cleared up rather quickly.


----------



## Drakekiller

Kevin Hayer
Gunsmith
Resident hunter advocate

dedicated to maintaining quality hunting in ND


----------



## Dan Bueide

Not to be the wet blanket here, but why do you suppose g/o has been working so hard on this issue? Because he's worried about GM's impact on Average Joe's future participation in ND quality hunting? If so, and my gut is wrong, then I apologize and I thank him. More likely, however, is that he views this behemoth as competition - and the worst form, right in his back yard. The saying "my enemies' enemy is my friend", I guess has some application here, but let's all recognize these efforts for what they most likely are.

Now g/o, I'm not trying to be nasty here, but I think this is a prime example of why it amazes me the NDPGOA can't look past its nose and see that at least many of the proposals of ND sportspersons will ultimately benefit them too. Market forces, left unchecked, will ruin for ND sportspersons what they have come to know as traditional ND hunting. Those same market forces, however, are also going to squeeze many of the o/g's operating today. There's ALWAYS more money from someone else, and the spending power of out of state land purchasers and the big o/g's is eventually going to ace out many of the current ND o/g's. Won't matter for the sportspersons, as one will replace the other (and continue to expand), but many of the o/g's are going to face the pinch too from this rush to exclusivity.

Throw some water on the market forces now through caps and industry limits on o/g, everyone goes along reasonably well. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.


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## PASS SHOOTEM

:******:

This is just made me so mad over the last few days. To think I've made online purchases in the past to this company makes me sick to my stomach! NOT ANOTHER DIME !!!

uke:


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## njsimonson

Nick Simonson
Law Talkin Guy
Valley City, ND

(This reminds me of the end of Mighty Ducks 2 where Gordon Bombay has all the kids in the locker room, and asks them who they are and where they're from, but when it all comes down to it, they're all DUCKS! And DUCKS FLY TOGETHER!!!)


----------



## Bob Kellam

This letter was just sent to Gander Mountain Corporation in Mpls.

I am making the choice to deal with Corporate Gander Mountain with My complaints as the decision to purchase Outdoor Expeditions was made there not at the Fargo Store.

To Gander Mountain Corporation.

When I read the News Release, that Gander Mountain had purchased Jay Anderson's Outdoor Expeditions, I was saddened by the fact that another piece of my beloved state has become a playground for the "pay to play" hunting sector.

I am a "Freelance" hunter. Freelance hunting is a tradition and heritage in North Dakota, handed down through generations. It is a simple concept: Find land to hunt through interaction with the people that are the true stewards of the land, North Dakota's farmers and ranchers. I do not and will not pay for access; the wildlife of North Dakota is a publicly owned resource. Paying for access is selling North Dakota's natural resources, we all know that if the land were void of wildlife access fees would be a ridiculous concept.

Excerpts from the North Dakota Constitution and The North Dakota Century Code

Article XI 
General Provisions

Page No. 34

Section 27. Hunting, trapping, and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage and will be forever preserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good.

North Dakota Century Code 20.1-01-03 
Ownership and Control of Wildlife is in the state - Damages - Schedule of monetary values - Civil penalty The ownership of and title to all wildlife within this state is in the state for the purpose of regulating the enjoyment, use, possession, disposition and conservation thereof, and for maintaining action for damages as herin provided. Any person catching, killing, taking trapping, or posessing any wildlife protected by law at any time or in any manner is deemed to have consented that the title thereto remains in this state for the purpose of regulating the taking, use possession, and disposition thereof...

As a freelance hunter, I believe that commercialization of North Dakota's natural resources is akin to the European hunting style that is reserved for people of wealth and influence. I chose not to pay for access because I value the friendships that I have made with landowners more than money. I will help any of them if they need help on their land and I have done so many times. Freelance hunting is in it's own way, very pay to play. Freelance hunters may not pay a landowner for access we generally have a limited amount of funds to spend. We would rather spend it in stores such as yours for guns, ammo, decoys and general hunting items, the income is just not there for the "average" North Dakota Freelance Hunter to afford to pay high access fees.

Here is an example: I have hunted 41 days so far in North Dakota to date, I know that is nowhere near average but it is what I love to do in the fall. If I take the numbers from Outdoor Expeditions web-site @ $595.00 per person for 3.5 days of hunting that would total up to $6,969.99 for me to hunt. That would leave me nothing to spend at your store.

The other aspect of Commercialization is the effect that it will have on small towns in North Dakota. Hunting will not save a small town in decline, the small town has to decide to save itself first, and hunting income will help once the decision is made. As a freelance hunter, I travel many miles to hunt all of the different landscapes that North Dakota has to offer. I spend money in every town I go to, gas food, hotel, etc. What does your clientele do to help small towns to get by? Alternatively, do they even care about what happens to North Dakota?

In closing, it is with deep regret that I will make the choice not to shop for my hunting supplies at Gander Mountain in the future. I feel I need to make a stand as a North Dakota freelance hunter to make sure the tradition and heritage of my beliefs are preserved.

Respectfully Submitted
Bob Kellam


----------



## PASS SHOOTEM

:beer:

I AM JUST SO :******:

I hate the reality of this. All indicators were pointing this way for a while, but for someone like Gander to step in like this... It really shows that they do not give a rats a** what hppens to us hunters. What I encourage everyone to do is JUST PLAIN GET THE WORD OUT! Email this link to everyone you know or would have interest in the subject. THE WORD MUST SPREAD!!!


----------



## Drakekiller

Mr. Hayer,

Gander Mountain has released the following information in response to customer questions concerning the issue of land development in North Dakota.

We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access to our customers.

Thank you
Gander Mountain


----------



## Ron Gilmore

To Gander Moutains response uke: :******:


----------



## curty

We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access to our customers.

If thats all they are doing why the big $$$$$?What is that for?The tea party after the hunt?


----------



## Dan Bueide

More promotion, more shooters, more acres. Nice try - they're in it up to their eyeballs, period!


----------



## JIMC_ND

I'm sticking with Scheel's... :thumb:


----------



## g/o

12


----------



## Dan Bueide

G/o, bet I'd think you were a great guy and we'd get along fabulously - as long as we didn't talk about the politics of ND hunting. I don't dislike you - I dislike what your industry is doing and will continue to do to the ND hunting landscape and your association's positions and tactics on the politics of hunting. I wasn't questioning your integrety as a human, just your motives on this issue.

You bet it's supply and demand - for productive ground - a very finite resource. And just like Walmart, these biggies are eventually going to cut out every middle man possible, capture all the margin they can and eventually run the show. They're also better connected and have more visibility and marketing power than most ND o/g's. For any o/g who doesn't operate exclusively on their own land, you bet these guys (and the increasing NR recreational landowners) are the competition or some day will be.

Look back at some of the "naughty outfitter" threads - where one of them was busted for something - I'm not even close to the first one to jump on the bandwagon. My issues lie with the industry and the association, both of which through their uncompromising positions have created a showdown.


----------



## triplej

Now you are saying gander has done nothing wrong except get in with this guy. Is that a good enough reason to trash talk them and boycott them? My wife is a democrat and I still love her. Do you realize how much good gander does for the community and for wildlife. They profide about 100 jobs at every store and as a company they donate $1000s to groups like pheasants forever and du and other groups. They give our du chapter good deals on guns and other merchandise for our banquets that help us raise more money. I have been a loyal gander customer since they had only one store in southern wisconsin. I can't see not going there because they are associated with one bad apple.


----------



## g/o

12


----------



## Bob Kellam

Triplej

I see your point.

Maybe if you lived here your entire life as I have and had been witness to the changes that have occoured in the last 40 years you would understand why I am standing firm for my views as a freelance hunter.

North Dakota is at a crossroad, I do not want North Dakota to be compared to any other state when it comes to quality hunting, everyone seems to think that if it is acceptable in their state or region it should be here also, we are not like other states, many can not even hold a candle to what we have here, so does that mean that we should sit and watch areas that have been open to freelance hunting vanish in the tide of foreign money that can and will take advantage of the current regulations in the state.

I take a pretty dim view of anyone that breaks the laws of my state in an attempt to cash in on our natural resources. What should we do, let them do what they want and just accept the fact that the organization with the most money is going to be the ultimate winner? That may eventually come to pass but I can assure you I will not go down without expressing my feelings any way I can. You have to have principals, My father told me once when I was young, "if you stand in the middle of the road eventually you will get run over"

Bob


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## g/o

12


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## Canada_Hunter

> My father told me once when I was young, "if you stand in the middle of the road eventually you will get run over


 :lol: :lol:


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## Matt Fiala

That makes me uke: 
I hope their customer base is sorta lost if they are doing this


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## Bob Kellam

I did not hear anything from GM so I e-mailed Customer services and asked if they offered Pheasant hunting in North Dakota.

Here is their reply 

First I apologize for the delay, I forwarded your email to department who has just started our program with the understanding that they were going to contact you! I certainly apologize. If you have not already found something we have a company that set these types of things up. It is called Outdoor Expeditions and you can reach them at 877-482-3982. I hope that helps. Again I apologize for the delay!

If there is any other assistance I can provide you with just let me know.

Sincerely,
Katie
Gander Mountain - Customer Service

Seems to me the friggin "Baton" has been passed 

Bob


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## curty

Yep thats what Jay told me. His exact words were Gander is taking the baton so to speak..Isn't that just jim dandy, :eyeroll:


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## woodie1

they lost my $ to bad cause the foots were cheap there now who else has cheap bigfoots and doesn't buy up land so that i can use them :down:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Does anyone else get headaches after reading some of this? I get so wound up about the hunting in our state it makes me sick. The MAIN reason I still live here is because of hunting. On friday afternoon, I was caled by a headhunter for my field. I was asked if I was interested in hearing about a book of business that would give me a very nice bump in compensation............The first question I asked is where is it located. The answer was Bloomington, MN. My answer was, thank you for the consideration, but I am not interested in leaving my state. End of conversation.

I will be the first to move if we become Texas, S.C, Georgia, etc....

Where/when is the next official battleground/advisory meeting/GNF hearing/etc... ?


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## Bob Kellam

Remmi

Here are the Game and Fish Advisory Board meetings that are left for the fall session

District 8 - Counties: Adams, Billings, Bowman, Dunn, Golden Valley, 
Hettinger, Slope and Stark.

Date: December 6

Location: To be announced.

Host: To be announced.

Contact: To be announced.

Advisory board member: Jerry D. Jeffers, Rhame, 279-5885.

District 7 - Counties: Burleigh, Emmons, Grant, Kidder, McLean, Mercer, 
Morton, Oliver, Sheridan and Sioux.

Date: December 7 - 7 p.m.

Location: ND Game and Fish Department, Bismarck.

Host: Great Planers Trout & Salmon Club.

Contact: Tony Goetz, 255-7073.

Advisory Board member: Frank Kartch, Bismarck, 222-4544.

Bob


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Thanks Bob, I will be at the meeting in Bismarck tomorrow evening!

Chad


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## gaddyshooter

All I can say is uke: . I too will join the boycott of GM. I have purchased hunting supplies from them in the past via the catalog, but will not buy anything again. I agree with the other posts near the beginning of this thread that someone should set up some kind of on line petetion drive where everyone who wants to let them know that they will not purchase anything else from them can sign it and let them know the reason why. That way they will know. I dont think they will stop their activity unless it hurts their bottom line.


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## Old Hunter

gaddyshooter Thank you for your help will your please call them and tell them how you feel If this these complaints come from all over the country we may have a chance to stop this. THE COMPLAINTS ARE COMING IN TO GANDER MTN kEEP THE PRESSURE UP.


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## ndrooster

"Do you realize how much good gander does for the community and for wildlife. They profide about 100 jobs at every store and as a company they donate $1000s to groups like pheasants forever and du and other groups. They give our du chapter good deals on guns and other merchandise for our banquets that help us raise more money." quote from a previous post on pg 4.

Even the Madams of the old west curried favor (and "blind eyes") for their wrong doings by spreading the wealth of their ill gotten gains around the towns and the states or territories they lived in -- until enough folks said enough is enough -- we don't need your money!

I live in a little dinky town not to far from Fargo and hunt the 'overhunted" public land in the sandhills for deer (sea of orange!) and the Oakes - Ellendale area for ducks and pheasants (1 or 2 weekends a year). This year the duck and pheasant hunting was really lousy with mile after mile after mile of land posted up -- the worst I have ever seen it. Even western ND where I grew up hunting - has become tighter and tighter and all I do there is make a annual trip to hunt grouse for a few days -- so we hunt the grasslands -- along with several other dozens of hunters - none of who I know.

ANY business/ organization that leases up land for "privatized hunts" AND for more than what our G & F can afford to pay for PLOTS (which is payed for through YOUR monies - although some of the land is very questionable but that is another subject for another thread) should NOT be supported. I don't care if it is the Cannonball Pheasant group or any other numerous "lodges". And if you are going after GM - which we should -- you also need to boycott any person and their business - whether it is a insurance agency or a used car salesmen (example only!) if they belong to such a organization. Time to put pressure on all the folks who endorse "privatized" hunting.

Not all of us who get out to hunt for a few days can afford to pay even $50/day/gun. Some of us have to save all year to do the hunting we do.


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## nocone

I am a new member and only by accident did I come across this forum! I was looking for ice conditions in nodak and came across this website. I am very concerned about what gander mountain is doing(if accurate) but i must say not surprised. This is what hunting is coming to in these great united states of ours(?). does cabelas do the same thing? absolutely!!!! these are corporate bigwigs and this is normal business for them. the ONLY way to put a stop to it is GET THE WORD OUT!!!!! i never heard any thing about this until,like i said, i accidently came across this surfing for ice conditions. i suspect that that many of you readers are also fishing fanatics. the VERY same sort of thing is going on with the tournament fishing. we(the sportfisherpersons) are the ones who support the states' dnr's and restocking programs etc. NOT the tournament fishermen!!! They go out and catch OUR walleyes and GET SELL THEIR CATCH!! they could care less about the true sport of fishing. these very same corporate bigwigs are sponsoring most of the tournaments and get big time free advertisement. Please think about this and get together and talk about all of this. THIS IS THE FUTURE FOR OUR KIDS AND GRANDKIDS!!! THANX


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## Rick Acker

Nocone...I assure it's accurate...I'm heading down there Thursday and now they are going after land that is way east of Ellendale! Eventually, you may not have a place to hunt either! I've lost 1 spot to them and they have contacted most of the farmers in my area! I hope they continue to say NO!


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## curty

nocone...I have talked with the owner of outdoor expeditions and he himself told me they have land near Ellendale and Linton, and are pursuing a Outfitters licence this coming year. Also Outdoor Expeditions is owned by Gander..that has been established by me and many others here...


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## Dick Monson

Not only is GM leasing, they are attempting to buy land at Johnsons Gulch WMA, one of the largest WMAs in North Dakota. Nice spot for a "lodge".


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## ottertail

GRASSROOTS ACTIVISM PAYS OFF-AGAIN

Grassroots activists also struck paydirt with Gander Mountain, one of the largest retailers of hunting and fishing equipment in the country. Considering Gander Mountain's market, pro-gun radio listeners in the Detroit area were somewhat surprised to hear the company's commercial air during a broadcast of the Mitch Albom radio show. Albom is a sports commentator whose ramblings have led many to consider him to be anti-gun. When Gander Mountain's customers began to complain, the company acted quickly. Officials contacted Gander Mountain's media company and requested that advertisements be pulled from airing during Mitch Albom's show. Mike Sidders, Gander Mountain's Business Marketing Manager, released a statement that read, "We at Gander Mountain take our outdoor heritage and Second Amendment rights very seriously, and we simply will not align ourselves with those who do not stand with us." Sidders also stated that Gander Mountain asked its media company "to perform a market analysis to ensure that the same mistake is not being made in other areas...." Again, congratulations to those grassroots activists who got involved. And if you hear of a similar problem in your area Gander Mountain, feel free to contact Mike Sidders at (952) 830-1644 or [email protected] (mailto:[email protected]).


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## Mud15

im from mn but there only buying land in ND so that does not affect me and i will continue to shop at gander, fleet farm, and cabelas. u people need to take it easy there is pleny of land to hunt!


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## Dick Monson

> [email protected]


 is a dead address. Can't imagine why.


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## djleye

Mud, How old are you. I believe that there will be land for me to hunt for a few years and maybe even until I am too old to hunt. I am much more concerned about my son. I want him to be able to hunt as I have, I don't want hunting to be only for the wealthy. I want young guys, probably guys like you, to be able to enjoy what I have. We are doing this for ourselves no doubt, but I would guess most of us are thinking much longer term than the here and now!!!!! Some people just don't get it!
 :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Field Hunter

" I just don't get it! - There used to be all this land out here (ND) that we could hunt without paying. Where did it all go, why is it all posted, who's leasing all this land for use by the rich." Written by a future ND sportsman.


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## Mud15

I understand that people are worried about hunting land. I have only been avidly hunting for 2 years. The strange thing is i have become hooked since the day my friend took for duck hunting. Noone in my family has an interest to hunt except my dad does a little. Most of the time i go hunting at public land that was bought by the DNR. So i know it is hard to find places to hunt. Luckily my friends has very good Hunting land and it will someday be his and we can enjoy it together. He has an abundance of pheasants, ducks, geese , rabbits, deer. Without finding someone u know that will let u hunt there land u pretty much have nowhere to hunt. So yes than i would be mad if someone like Gander is buying up l and so that the rich citie BOYS! can buy some good Hunting which just angers me because most citie Boys dont respect the outdoors and trash it up for us. Everytime i go out hunting at public places i see a sign that has been shot up to bits and i think to myself what kind of an idiot does that. They should not be able to hunt. So yes we need to preserve what land we have left i think one thing we could do is not let those places buy land from farmers but it is there land and if they want to sell it theres nothing we can do about. We can just hope and try to convince them that they shouldnt sell it. But everyone wants more money.....


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## jdpete75

While reading this I started smelling an AD campaign. Then I had a vision of the saddest little girl in the world sitting on the edge of the road wondering where she was going to be able to hunt when she grows up.  After pondering it for about 5 minutes I tossed my 8 year old daughter in the truck and headed for Ellendale, found the nicest posted sign I could find, sat her on the edge of the road looking sad and snapped off a few BW and Color pics with the big yellow sign in the background. My brother has the memory stick now and is doing the editing. I am going to need a good catch phrase that is short, sad, and sticks in your head. In this case it should mention GM in some way.


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## Bob Kellam

Jd
I sent you a PM

Bob


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## jamartinmg2

More Gander news......

Gander stock falls because of warm weather 
Melissa Levy, Star Tribune 
December 9, 2004 GANDER1209

Shares of Gander Mountain Co. fell 12 percent to a 52-week low on Wednesday after an analyst downgraded the Bloomington-based outdoors retailer.

Continued warm weather in the chain's core Midwestern markets could hurt hunting apparel and equipment sales in the fourth quarter, Mitchell Kaiser, a senior research analyst at Piper Jaffray & Co. in Minneapolis, said in a report.

"While we continue to believe [Gander Mountain] will be a category-dominant player in the hunt-fish-camp sub-segment of the sporting goods retail sector, we believe current weather trends will limit upside to our earnings estimate," Kaiser wrote, cutting his rating of the retailer's shares to "market perform" from "outperform."

Gander Mountain's sales stalled in its third quarter, as balmy fall weather discouraged hunting-related purchases. The chain's quarterly sales at stores open at least a year declined 7.5 percent for the period ended Oct. 30.

Kaiser estimates that Gander Mountain's fourth-quarter same-store sales will decline 3 percent. He noted December high temperatures in Minnesota have been in the 30 to 40 degree range, vs. normal average highs in the mid-20s. Gander Mountain has 13 of its 82 stores in Minnesota.

The retailer's stock closed Wednesday down $1.44 at $10.61. Gander Mountain went public at $16 a share in April, and its shares hit a high of $26.25 that month.

Gander Mountain executives said Tuesday they planned to open about 20 stores in 2005, as well as expand in merchandise areas such as boats and marine accessories, Kaiser wrote.

Melissa Levy is at [email protected]


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## drjongy

jd,

How about "look what santa got me at Gander Mountain for Christmas, even worse than a lump of coal."


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## Choclab

I just finished reading the entire 4 pages of this forum and I had no idea that corporations were doing this all over. I am with everyone on this site that GM and Cabela's lost my business until they can prove this to be untrue. As a NR hunter in ND, I have noticed that access has become tougher year after year. Since we only shoot 15-20 birds in 5 days, it's not too big a deal as it is a get together thing for most of us. I'm from MN and am surprised by his comments - don't hold it against the rest of us. He must assume man is immortal and the land will always be owned by one. Well Mud, everything is for sale. Keep on GM and others boys!!

Tom
Banker
Minnesota


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## djleye

Thanks Tom, Stick around, we need more like you here, ther is strength in numbers!!!!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

> Shares of Gander Mountain Co. fell 12 percent to a 52-week low on Wednesday after an analyst downgraded the Bloomington-based outdoors retailer. Mitchell Kaiser, a senior research analyst at Piper Jaffray & Co. in Minneapolis, said in a report.


I love my firm!!!!!!! :beer:


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## jamartinmg2

Remmi_&_I said:


> Shares of Gander Mountain Co. fell 12 percent to a 52-week low on Wednesday after an analyst downgraded the Bloomington-based outdoors retailer. Mitchell Kaiser, a senior research analyst at Piper Jaffray & Co. in Minneapolis, said in a report.
> 
> 
> 
> I love my firm!!!!!!! :beer:
Click to expand...

Maybe next quarter they will blame their troubles on disgruntled midwest hunters who are boycotting their stores!! Somehow I think they will still be going with the warm weather theory....


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## been there done that

Now's the time to boycott. Gander Mtn is having big financial troubles and heads are starting to roll!!! :beer:


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## jamartinmg2

btdt.... you are absolutely right. Hit them now when they are already hurting and they are more apt to listen. Keep up the pressure, their present financial state should help the cause. :beer:


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## Dave in Mpls

djleye said:


> This is the response I got after e-mailing the customer service dept at Gander.
> 
> Dear Dr. Levin
> 
> Thank you very much for taking the time to contact us on an issue that has been brought to our attention from a few of our customers. We have not been able to locate the source of these very serious false accusations to date. We sure would appreciate any direction you may be able to provide so that we can address this concern directly with the source.
> 
> Gander Mountain has recognized that the topic of access is one of the most significant issues that our lifestyle faces today. With more and more land being closed to anglers and hunters it has become increasingly difficult for outdoor enthusiast to enjoy the outdoors as they see fit. This issue is one of the very reasons that our company formed an outdoor travel company called Outdoor Expeditions on October 4th of this year. Since October we have been very busy locating and contacting existing outfitters throughout North America, including in the state of North Dakota, in order to find the very best destinations that we can offer to our customers. We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way, but rather working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access to our customers.
> 
> We very much appreciate your loyalty to Gander Mountain in taking the time to address your concerns with us directly. You can rest assure that we will diligently address these accusations as we take every concern of our customers very seriously. Please do not hesitate to contact myself or our staff in Fargo if there is anything we can assist you with in the future.
> 
> Cordially,
> 
> Chris Bahl
> Brand Manager
> Gander Mountain


Well, now I know what Chris is doing after leaving Cabela's other than walleye fishing

Damn, I really did like that store.....


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## bioman

To really bring this issue to the "limelight", why not get a large group and picket outside their store? If you could get a large enough group, I would venture a guess that the local media would pick up this story...


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## Bob Kellam

At the urging of a friend I am going to post this and let you come to your own conclusions.

A few nights ago I answered the phone my called ID said "Unknown" I thought nothing of it, telemarketers, the person at the other end of the phone asked if I was Bob Kellam I said yes I was. I was told that I should back off from the Gander Mountain thing or I would be sorry. I kinda got a kick out of it at first so I started to ask a few questions, Like who is this and after a little back and forth this guy went nuts!!! I got chewed out like a red headed stepchild, (sorry to any that fit that description) everytime I asked if it was my turn to talk he got more agressive, so I had finally had enough and I started to get a little nasty and he hung up on me. My interest was high so I tried the *69 thing It didn't work everything came up blocked or unknown. I want to believe that it was a loyal customer or someone that owns stock as I hope anyone in business would not act that way, however, someone is not liking what I have been writing. I did find it a little strange that the call came the day after I sent the letter posted here to GM corporate offices? If the person that called me is someone that is lurking on this site, Call me again, I would like to sit down and have a cup of coffee and discuss this in a rational manner. I am a reasonable person and I am willing to discuss any issue at any time, we may agree to disagree but at least you will be able to see me as what I am a slightly overweight, balding, opinionated older guy. If you got the balls I got the time, (I don't mean that literally) 

Bob


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## Brix

Great thread fellas. I'm with you all the way. I didn't know all this had been happening until a month ago, & I'm sorry to have ever spent a dime at GM. No more! Keep up the pressure. :******:


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## leadshot

Yep, they lost my business !!!!! :******:


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## zogman

Grand Forks, North Dakota

Home of Economy...............been my choice for about 35 years :beer:


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## Dakota Kid

If I would have known this was going on before my recent trip home to Bismarck, I would have opened this can of **** at the advisory board meeting.

What makes me even more mad is I just dropped $500 there in the last month. 

I'll be writing them a quick nastygram.


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## Ron Gilmore

To picket would attract attention, but spreading the word on all of the hunting sites that each and everyone of us visit and enlisting other hunters to do the same will have a more chilling affect upon their sales than us picketing in Fargo.

I spread this info to other sites. On two the moderates deleted the threads. I posted them up again. I then received emails asking to produce the verification of the act, which I did. Posts where then allowed to stay up.

On the Fuge the thread has received over a 1000 views. I have received dozens of positive emails thanking me for bring this to light.

On FB the listing only has had 50 + viewings in a week. Kind of shows where people go and why. One must remember that not all of the country has the same view on G/O or the negative impact that actions like GM and Cabalas have. Many have never hunted except with a G/O or though a lease. One thing I stress is that this is not solely about rich vs Avg Joe. I hammer home the heritage issue, exploitation of resource, and the road block this activity creates to youth hunters.

If hunters across the nation start sending letters and return purchased items, the message will get to them faster, and be noticed quicker than any pocketing we could do here.

As I stated before I have returned what Icould. Will not buy anything there again, and have refused to pick up things for freinds back home. I have offered to find it elsewhere for them etc.


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## djleye

I returned about $300 worth of stuff there today, my hunting partners will be happy to know that one was my SMH call??? Who is gonna call your birds now boys????!!!! :wink: :laugh:


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## mallard

Dan,What kind of call are you going to get now that you returned the foiles?


----------



## Dick Monson

On the national news tonight a story was profiled how the Target retail chain has forbiden the Salvation Army bell ringers from the Target property. Against their policy. Many other competing retail chains are advertising that they DO allow the SA in. Some religous organizations are now boycotting Target stores and Target is feeling the pinch. These organizations are making a public point to patronize stores that support their positions.

The parallel between Gander/Outfitting and Target/ Salvation Army equals a boycott seems very clear. An effective way to get a point home. You don't ring our bells, you don't get the business.


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## defendthehunt

djleye - What kind of call was that? Foiles? Come to Scheels - we carry Foiles and will order one for you if we don't have that model in stock (Okay - i admit this is a shameful display of working to beat the competition, but a man has to do what a man has to do.) :wink:

As for the Target bell ringers, i don't get it. Sure there are days when we have VERY aggressive bell ringers in our entry. (just how many times CAN you ring that bell in one second???) But it is CHRISTMAS - and in one month the Salvation Army does nearly all of their fundraising for the year!

By the way - The Salvation Army is projecting to be substantially below goal this year. the softer than expected nationwide Christmas sales season has left them with less money in their buckets than expected. So along with toys for tots mentioned in another forum, the Salvation Army could use another dollar or two from those of us who can afford it. Drink one less pop (or beer) each week from now to Christmas and give that money to the Salvation Army.


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## Dick Monson

> As for the Target bell ringers, i don't get it.


Businesses that support popular customer policies get patronized. (ie HPC) No support, no $$$ in the door.
That is why Gander Mountain is taking such a beating from sportsmen.

Annnnnnnd .... HPC will come back to the legislature next session.


----------



## Remmi_&amp;_I

Marv's Hardware in Mandan may become my primary destination. Gotta love Tony Dean! Yes, I know he does ads for Scheel's as well!


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## djleye

Dean, I will work with my X-Out for now and if I get any better over the winter then maybe look at a new call, I have lots of work to do and not enough time to do it!!
I cannot believe that no one has said a word about Bobs' post that he got a harrassing phone call at home for the work he does for most Nodak outdoors guys, there has to be something to do here!!


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## Nodak Duke

Here is a chance for everyone to be heard and to make a difference... Step forth and let Gander know your thoughts. Not only will it make an impression on them, but it will undoubtedly make an impression on others who wish to follow suit in the years to come! :eyeroll:


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## Nodak Duke

Here's the brilliant response which they sent me:
"Mr. Weiland,
Gander Mountain has released the following information in response to customer questions concerning the issue of land development in North Dakota.

We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access for our customers. 
Thank you"

Someone is not telling the almighty truth here. :eyeroll:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

:eyeroll: uke: :******:


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## leadshot

> We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access for our customers.


How can they defend themselves after they word it like that. They're still binding up land for profit and limiting access for the average Joe.


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## gandergrinder

This response should indicate to you how this company plans on dealing with this situation. They have not told you a lie but they sure as hell have not told you the full story.

Notice the wording here


> We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access for our customers.


What that means is that they, Gander Mountain the store, are not specifically operating an outfitting business but I would bet all I have that one of their subsidiaries are, which means the money all funnels back to Gander Mountains shareholders. Which means the corporate headquarters knows exactly what is going on.

If anyone wants to be a huge help to me could you find out where I could get Gander Mountains financial statements. They are a public company now. I need really detailed financial statements. We are going to find out exactly what this company owns and how it flows into the big picture.


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## jamartinmg2

Leadshot..... I was just typing a response to that effect! Doesn't matter if GM, or the outfitter, is leasing up the land. It still has the same effect in the long run.


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## curty

In reply to Nodak Dukes responce from Gander....Bull s**t...I talked with the owner of Outdoor expeditions and he himself told me he had a meeting I beleive the 1st of Dec. with NDGF about getting a outfitters licence in the state Of North Dakota. The meeting was held in Fargo.and we all know O.E. is owned by none other than Gander Mountain! I am going to see if I can get on the phone with someone who is someone at Gander and see if I can call them out....wish me luck!


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## Bubba

Nodak Duke said:


> Here's the brilliant response which they sent me:
> "Mr. Weiland,
> Gander Mountain has released the following information in response to customer questions concerning the issue of land development in North Dakota.
> 
> We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access for our customers.
> Thank you"
> 
> Someone is not telling the almighty truth here. :eyeroll:


Well heck if that's the case, they aren't making any money on this and should be happy to share with us the locations (and owner info) so we can just line up our own hunts. 
Thank goodness Scheels is only 60 miles away!!! Most of those guys even know what they're talking about when asked questions.....


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## Bob Kellam

GG

PM Remmi, he is in the business, he may be able to help you out.

And I agree with curty Bull S..T!!!


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## curty

GG... type in gander mountain on yahoo and go to gander in depth company info...www.hoovers.com, you will find a lot of info...By the way it lookes to me stocks are falling in Dec 2004.
And also Gander says its working with current outfitters?.....How about only one outfitter (Outdoor Expeditions) OH thats right its thier outfitter! :eyeroll: How stupid does gander think we are ???????? Its an insult to the people who live here, while they twist the truth around.They must think we are a bunch of ******** :eyeroll:


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## goose1965

This might be old news, but if you read his reasons for joining gander, kinda sounds like he has no clue neither.

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041122/cgm054_1.html


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## gandergrinder

Gander Mountains motto

"We want to help people enjoy the outdoors, by excluding some of you so we can line our pockets helping everyone else"

uke: uke: uke:


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## Field Hunter

Keith Warren.....Isn't he the "Chevy Sportsman" guy.... the one that hunts at the Paradise Ranch canned hunt thing? Jed, Zach, Tyler, Bob, Dan...need I say more?....all of this crap is just making me sick! I really don't want any affiliation with Gander Mountain!


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## goose1965

I've been doing some digging on Gander and just found out that Holiday stationstores inc. owns 5,852,812 shares in Gander Mountain.
I guess I'll stop doing business with them also.


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## 870 XPRS

> Dear Mr. Ulmer:
> 
> I am sorry that you have decided to no longer shop at Gander Mountain. Our association with Outdoor Expeditions is designed to make it easy for our customers to have a broader range of outdoor experiences than they might otherwise have, by acting as a middleman between our customers and various existing guide services. For a customer in Texas who wants to hunt in North Dakota, it is difficult to plan a trip without some advice on where to go and who are the reputable guides, so we are providing him with some proven choices. In this way, we are trying to make it easier for the "average Joe' to visit North Dakota, as well as many other locations, to enjoy the outdoors. The people who are limiting the access to land in North Dakota are the landowners. Gander Mountain has released the following information in response to customer questions concerning the issue of land development in North Dakota:
> 
> We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts to provide access for our customers.
> 
> Please contact me if you have further questions.
> 
> Shannon Burns
> 
> Shannon H. Burns, CFA
> 
> Director of Investor Relations
> 
> Gander Mountain Company
> 
> 4567 American Boulevard West
> 
> Minneapolis, MN 55437
> 
> 952-830-1690


I love how the people who are restricitng land access is the owners,,,I wonder why that is the case????


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## djleye

All I read was........."Blah Blah Blah guide, blah blah blah Kieth Warren, blah blah blah blah Texas, Blah blah blah Guide" !!!! They want the average Joe to visit ND and spend $250 per gun per day to hunt (oops, that should read SHOOT, not hunt, big difference) waterfowl that is everywhere. Mkaes sense to me, what's the problem???

uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:


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## jamartinmg2

It is apparent GM's description of an "average joe" hunter is a little bit different than mine! :-?


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## Nodak Duke

We need to start a petition and show the just how many "average joes" are against it and will be happy to make certain that they take their biz elsewhere!! :evil: "Average Joe" will have a great impact on ol' Gander.


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## Bob Kellam

I am glad some of you have been finding out this stuff, I refrained from posting some of this info as I did not want this to become a personal vendetta, you can find info on any publicly traded business if you look hard enough.

Gander Mountain is monitoring this site that I am sure of. so here is my reply to them are you reading guys??

You want to try and sell the BS about landowners limiting access to prime hunting areas you need to go sell your stuff somewhere else. Landowners can do anything they wish with their land except sell a natural resource that belongs to everyone. I have posted the link to the North Dakota Constitution and Century code so many times that I have it memorized.

Landowners restrict access for a number of reasons, some want privacy, some want to keep the hunting for family, some have had bad experiences with "slob" hunters, some do not like the politics of certain areas of the state and restrict residents from that area, and some want to cash in on the bounty. One of the prime reasons that landowners want to cash in is the Leasing of land by O/G operations and large corporations. Let me explain from our point of view, O/G's lease up land at $5.00 per acre(just an example dollar figure) the neighbors find out, because North Dakotas small communities are close knit and they start to charge for access, Why shouldn't they (Bill down the road just got a new truck) and as this happens it has a snowball effect. You want examples? look at South West North Dakota, The Devils Lake Basin, and now the playground that you are helping to expand South Central North Dakota. Why are we so hell bent against this? simply because most of us were able to freelance hunt these areas just by helping a landowner with some work or just for the asking. I could not help but notice when I was looking into Gander Mountain Corporation what the exec, salaries were and the stock transfer bonuses. North Dakota does not pay that well most "average joe" hunters as you call them will have to work for 5 to 7 years to make that kind of money, Most here stick it out because we have roots that are deep and there is more to life than the almighty dollar, Hunting and fishing, quality of life, low crime, friendly people just to name a few reasons. So in response to you statement that you want the average joe to experience North Dakota we are already here and have been for decades. We have been refered to as the Vocal Minority many times, it is time for the Minority to get Vocal!!!

Bottom line here guys Gander Mountain has made their choice to make as much money as they can any way they can. Exploitation of North Dakotas Natural Resources is how they wish to make their pocket change here. It is time to get active, write an old fashiond letter to the legislator in your district, testify if you can on some of the issues, and also write to the North Dakota Game and Fish, let them know how you feel e-mails are to easy to delete and screen out. put some thought into it and send it!!!!! there have been 11,000+ VIEWS OF THIS THREAD!!! People are watching this. *and remember they were caught breaking the law (outfitting in North Dakota with out a license) this point keeps getting lost in the discussions.* they thought that they could just come here and do as they pleased by taking a different slant on a somewhat vague law.

Bob


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## smalls

I like the idea that someone else had of asking them, as customers, access to this land that they are just trying to make it easier for EVERYONE to use. Maybe with enough pressure we could have them create the Gander Plots program. Where they lease land for PUBLIC hunting. Until then...


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## tumblebuck

quick question here....since this appears to be an illegal activity, has anyone reported this to the Game and Fish or other authorities? Has anyone approached a lawyer for legal advice?

Another point to ponder...since selling of a public resource (wildlife) is contrary to the ND century code, has anyone thought of a class actoin lawsuit against the o/g industry?

I'm not sure I see any action from anybody besides boycotts, contacting legislatures, etc (all good and needed!). But, if it's as apparently illegal as it seems, why not bring a lawsuit? Maybe it's not that easy?


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## defendthehunt

Gandergrinder - Gander Mountain IS owned by Holiday. the same people who run the Holiday station stores.

You can get very detailed Gander financial information right from their own website. Go to investor relations and you can pull up their quarterly SEC filings, which tell you just about everything they do financially. As part of being a public company, this information is required in full to be available to the public.

As far as their links to OE, Holiday, etc. i am not sure how you could get this information. Gander is run as it's own entity, thus it is not required to report on those other entities under the Holiday umbrella.

I hope this helps.


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## g/o

12


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## Bob Kellam

Anyone from Gander Mountain Corporate or Outdoor Expeditions care to reply or join the discussion????? You (Gander Mountain) replied to me when I asked if you lined up Pheasant Hunts. Why not get into the discussion?????

Bob


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## chessy

I think that i will do all my shopping at scheels outdoorsman and sportsmans wharehouse from now on. and to think i have already spent over 1500.00 bucks at gm no more. there is a lot of $$$$$$ spent in fargo on hunting and fishing supplies if we all watch where we shop they might get the hint plus they will lose more money this way than thy will make on thier leases .


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## Dick Monson

I forwared this topic to 3 hunting buddies and asked them to pass it on. 17 hunters got it the first day and all agreed to bypass Gander until they GET OUT of ND outfitting and leasing. Merry Christmas :wink:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Dick Monson said:


> I forwared this topic to 3 hunting buddies and asked them to pass it on. 17 hunters got it the first day and all agreed to bypass Gander until they GET OUT of ND outfitting and leasing. Merry Christmas :wink:


Good work Dick! I did the same to my friends/family that hunt!


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## curty

Same here Dick...I have a huge list of addresses from hunters all over the U.S.


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## goose1965

tumblebuck said:


> I'm not sure I see any action from anybody besides boycotts, contacting legislatures, etc (all good and needed!). But, if it's as apparently illegal as it seems, why not bring a lawsuit? Maybe it's not that easy?


Tumblebuck,

I'm an insurance agent here in ND and I think I see this a little more than the average North Dakotan. North Dakota is not a suing state.

If you get hurt on someone else's property...then maybe you should not have been there. It's all part of the small town atmosphere here and I love it.

Corporate giant versus North Dakota residents....not much math to do there.

That's exactly why we have been doing what we have. We rely on our legislators and other elected officials to protect our backs. That's the way it should be.


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## tumblebuck

Goose,

My roots are deeply embedded in ND. I know what you are talking about.

However, as I see it, that's exactly the type of complacency the g/o industry is hoping for! Let's "talk" about it a little longer. While we talk, they keep on taking and pushing the rest of us out!


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## Bob Kellam

Goose, Tumblebuck

A class action suit would go nowhere IMO due to the lack of specific information of the laws in place. How do you prove that o/g fees are actually selling wildlife, their services or access?

My big problem with this entire issue is the advertisement by a national company telling the world that North Dakota can be taken advantage of if you have $599.00 for 3.5 days of hunting and then doing it illegally with out getting a license to do so. They just thought that they could come here and do as they pleased without consequence, expecting the freelance hunters of the state to just accept the fact that the store they buy their supplies from, is also going to add to the exclusivity for what they call "average joe" hunters.

The most upsetting thing about this is that the "average joe" hunters that they are trying to get here would probably save a great deal of money if they came here on their own and just freelance hunted, but then again that is not the way it is in their state so again they associate their states values with North Dakota, when all they know about us is that we are a small state with great natural resources.

IMO if you need a guide to hunt in ND you are to busy, in to much of a hurry, to wealthy, to lazy to do your own homework, or just plain clueless.
If you come here and decide that you want to hunt on your own, you can. You may have to get up the nerve to ask for access, and remember don't put your hometown values on ND, people here are very nice, you will get turned down, so what!!! go ask the next guy, make some relationships as most of us have, Enjoy ND treat her with respect and you will receive respect back. Adding to the exclusivity of commercialization will eventually bring the beginning of the end to freelance hunting in ND.

Sorry about getting on my soapbox 

Bob


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## gaddyshooter

Bob K....I think with that last post you have pretty much hit the nail on the head. A big corporation like that believes they can do what they want, and if the get caught, so what. Nobody can do anything to them. The state won't do anything to them even if they know about it. Even if they do , it would be a small fine that would not hurt them anyway. Also your point about it bring more leasing/exclusivity to the state if right on. There are many many places where 599.00 for duck hunting for three days is the normal. Leaves me out however. And yes, most people from other states are completely clueless about the way hunting is in your state. When I first heard about the trespass laws up there (or lack of) I was completely amazed and still did not believe how good it could be until I actually made the trip myself. Problem is, the word is out and now it is an anual thing for many many people. Caps are going to have to be put into place if the resourse will be saved. Not just caps on total numbers, but caps on the number or outfitters, the number of hunters that each outfitter can have, and a cap of the number of acres an outfitter can hunt on that is not directly owned by the outfitting company/ ie leasing.


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## nipper

Lets wake up and smell the coffee this goes on everyday and everywhere. I personally have been invited to go on hunts to different states because my company bought something or they are my vender. I personally don't have a real problem with that. Cabella's has been doing it for years look in the back of there magazine where do you think all there hunts take place?
I have more issues with people who think they can just hunt anywhere and not ask for permission and then when I show up at my deer stand opening morning with someone in it who has no clue what there doing That's where i get a little angry and the tresspass law doesn't work well and there are not enough CO's to cover it That's more of an issue then this in my oppinon


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## Ron Gilmore

Nipper maybe the reason they end up by your stand is that a company like Gander or Cabela's has taken the affordable access away from them in one form or another!


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## Field Hunter

Just called Gander and they actually have an ad playing on the Fargo Stores music-on-hold concerning Outdoor Expeditions....I couldn't believe it! To paraphrase, Give us a call at OE to help with access and gave the 800 number about 3-4 times. Also mentioned something to the effect that Gander is doing this to enhance their customer's outdoor experience!!! They said that OE would be in the store soon and be sure to ask about it when you're here. Might be a good day to get everyone that's against this into the store.


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## Cooper

nipper said:


> I personally have been invited to go on hunts to different states because my company bought something or they are my vender. I personally don't have a real problem with that.


Nipper, how many of the people that work for you get to go on any of these hunting trips? How many of them are getting screwed out of places to hunt, because of companies like Gander Mountain, and Cabelas?


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## Bob Kellam

[email protected]

Time to let Game and Fish know how you feel about this, Resident and Non-Resident freelance hunters buy a lot of licenses and that money goes to the NDGF. I just sent my e-mail.

Bob


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Field Hunter said:


> They said that OE would be in the store soon and be sure to ask about it when you're here. Might be a good day to get everyone that's against this into the store.


Hmmmm, I think I may have to stop in and ask a few questions about it.

Why are you taking away my places to hunt?
How do you expect to sell "hunting" products when we have no where to hunt?
How is you bottom line doing now that true Nodak hunters are not spending money in your store any longer?


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## Mud15

end this mumbo jumbo


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## dustin_e

I've been following these concerns ever since they started. I won't defend G/M nor will I bash them. I am totally neutral in this. I personally would be ****** off if there was a corporation buying or leasing land to outfit on. I've personally talked to a few G/M employees and they've told me the only land they own in ND is the land they have their building on. I might be a little naive on this matter but I like to get my facts straight before my voice is heard. This is why I am writing now. I have worked for the North Dakota Game and Fish Department, the same people NodakOutdoors are affiliated with, and I also have lived in North Dakota my whole life if that's any consolation to you guys. I know I am new to this Forum but I'd like to voice my opinion, if all of you don't mind, and I say this with question? I'm open for invite...


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## ndrooster

leadshot said:


> We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access for our customers.


IF they are not leasing land DIRECTLY could it be that they are giving money under the table to outfitters to give the outfitters more "buying" power? Then going through the O.E. to book hunts with those favored outfitters. Just an end around or loophole to gain the same thing - closed land to the "ave.joe" hunter.


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## Cooper

dustin_e said:


> I've personally talked to a few G/M employees and they've told me the only land they own in ND is the land they have their building on.


dustin-e #1 they don't own this land, they are leasing it. #2 don't talk to employees, talk to the store manager, he knows about it.


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## dustin_e

You tell me not to talk with employees...I've talked to Mike Carver and I do believe he is the store manager from what I am told. For whatever it's worth, after talking with him leads me to believe they aren't really too keen on paying to hunt either, most of you will disregard this as posts past reflect. It just seems to me that there is a lot of hostillity towards this fargo business. One question though, before I end for today, how would you feel if one of your children worked at this place to get themselves through school and got ripped on for something they can't control, for example, a protest outside the store. Have any of you really thought of that? It is a very touchy subject, I will agree. Once again I'm neither condoning nor condeming Gander Mountain.


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## Bob Kellam

Dustin

I am going to take issue with you on this. I have been directing my posts toward GM corporate, the Fargo store is the recipient of the loss of my personal business which this year was considerable. I have made the choice to stand up for what I believe in, I have had it with large corporations breaking the law and claiming ignorance of the laws i.e. Gander Mountain/Outdoor Expeditions, Jim Cook and his Crosslands Land purchase in Griggs County and his attemped purchase of the land in Cavalier County.

So do I feel sorry that a few "innocent" people have been affected at the Fargo store. NO I DO NOT! there are a lot of freelance hunters that get affected that are in the same position. Why is it that Employees of a store should get sympathy and the hunters that are being affected by this Corporate decision should just take it and say nothing????? My kids are freelance hunters someone elses kids are employees of GM, we are standing up for what we believe, are the GM employees?

Bob


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## gandergrinder

It is fine to talk with the employees in Fargo but you have to understand that they aren't the ones making the decisions on this issue. The upper level management is. So talking with them and getting there views does absolutely nothing to solve this issue.

If you are an employee of a company you can have all the personal views you want but you still have to do what the boss says or you are going to lose your job.

Gander Mountain is a corporation and the decisions by management will effect the profitability of individual stores under that managements control. If Gander Mountain in Fargo goes belly up then the only people that employees should blame is the management above them.

I will openly state that I feel it is WRONG to attack the individuals who work at the store in Fargo. They are just trying to do a job. They should not be attacked in any way.

A protest does not mean that you attack individuals at the store. That is the wrong approach and I would never support that. But a protest could be used to make other individuals aware of the situation, done of course, in a peaceful manner.


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## Bob Kellam

Your absolutly right GG. That does not change the fact that many on both sides are taking hits due to corporate decisions.

Bob


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## MSG Rude

GG...

100% accurate and I am in full agreement with you. However; playing the devils advocate here, I don't march in 'alternative life style' parades because I don't believe in it. I don't work at a hemp and bead shop because I don't believe in it. All I am saying is that if you are going to associate with a business, do your research and make sure it is something you are willing to defend. That whole 'ride for the brand' stuff.

Just my thoughts.


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## Choclab

I have to side with GG as I think he hit it on the head as far as leaving the front line employees out of it. You really can't ask them anything about it as most won't know squat other than heresay! In fact, most of them don't know a whole lot about hunting/equipment/outdoors, ect. I was in a store in Rochester and I heard a guy ask the clerk if most guys use 6 shot or 4 shot for pheasants and his answer was "Yes" - For what it is worth, ask someone who makes the decisions. Keep the pressure on them and they will turn to the supporters of there stores and what truely helps the bottom line - sales to you and me.


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## dustin_e

I'm glad we agree on not attacking employees...yet by previous posts, many of you said you caused a scene or were somewhat mean to the EMPLOYEES when items were returned or am I mistaken? The store manager doesn't have a say either because, I hate to say it, but he is a puppet as well, so to speak. I mean, most of you have wanted to or did take some of your frustrations out on employees. Here's what I think for whatever it's worth. A corporation that buys up land and closes it to hunting for the purpose of making money...that is wrong! I have a hard enough time as it is now to find open land as well as many of you do. But being affiliated with an outfitter, not making any money, isn't wrong to me. It is all heresay that G/M is getting money from Outdoor Expeditions. There are no facts to these accusations or does somebody have proof? If somebody can give us all proof, and I mean actual proof, I will shut my mouth about it and be somewhat, how should I say it, disappointed. It seems like these outfitters were here before G/M, and since G/M sends some people their way for the experience, that's wrong? To some it might be but to some it isn't. This is the problem, there are always going to be problems with this. We can't all agree on everything, if this were the case, what would we talk about.


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## DuckBuster

How can it be "hearsay" that GM is making money from OE? They (GM) OWN Outdoor Expeditions. Gander Mt. made that statement and isn't denying it. There will be many more people using OE because of the marketing GM can do that OE was unable to do before. Yeah, there were outfitters there before, but now they may have more $ to lease more land than before. That's where I have the problem. I agree we shouldn't take out our frustrations on employees, but the message has to be sent to GM. Unfortunatly, employees will have to try and answer questions about the situation and realize that it isn't personal.


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## g/o

12


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## dustin_e

I guess that is all the proof I need, but just a couple questions. Why are you guys from minnesota and other states so concerned here. This isn't exactly your problem. Also, who here has ever guided or outfitted before, and I would like you to speak up. That is all I have to say.


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## Old Hunter

Dustin e 
You have asked a few questions I will try to answer them from my point of view. If my son or daughter were working for GM I would ask them to look for a new job. I would explain to them that they are working for a company that is destroying 200 years of North Dakota hunting traditions There are many job opportunities for young people in Fargo. You dont have to work for that campany you do it by choice. You stated that a lot of GM employees dont like what the company is doing. They should look for a new job.
You ask why people from Minn, Wis, or Mich, are against this type of corporate control in the hunting world??? These people realize that high priced hunting under corporate control is bad for hunting and the shooting sports in general. 
Dustin Why does a young person from south of Valley city defend a company that is destroying our traditions. Your comments such as (I am totally neutral) do not seem to fit with your postings. You keep going to bat for this company. There are hundreds of posts on this subject and you are one of about 3 people standing with GM. Whats in it for you? Please dont tell me that your just a good old country boy that likes to stand up for major corporations. Why do you carry a tourch for Gander Mt.
Old Hunter 
Greg Ells
Gackle, ND


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## Bob Kellam

Dustin

North Dakota Hunting Traditions are part of the North Dakota Constitution

*Article XI 
General Provisions *

*Page No. 34

Section 27. Hunting, trapping, and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage and will be forever perserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good. *

How is what Gander Mountain doing preserving the heritage or managing by law for the public good?

You ask why many of our outstate visitors are getting involved, the answer is very clear to me. They come to North Dakota because we have hunting and natural resources that have no comparison in the lower 48 and they don't want to see the opportunities to enjoy it vanish any more than I do.

Later, it is time to go enjoy the day. There are some roosters out there that are more than happy to give us some exercise today.

Bob


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## jamartinmg2

dustin_e said:


> I guess that is all the proof I need, but just a couple questions. Why are you guys from minnesota and other states so concerned here. This isn't exactly your problem. Also, who here has ever guided or outfitted before, and I would like you to speak up. That is all I have to say.


Dustin.... You ask why guys from Minnesota or other states are concerned about this. I've hunted in ND as a resident and non-resident for over 20 years. Any action that threatens the places I hunt, and relationships I've developed with landowners over the years, I am against. If Gander Mountain is helping, or worse financially supporting outfitters, this is bad for all the free-lance hunters out there in my opinion.


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## Choclab

dustine,

Keep in mind that the issue is not Res/NRes it is a sportsman issue and preserving the rights for all of us. As a Minn Resident, leased land concerns me no matter where it happens and most of the time there is nothing I can do about it, but in this situation I can boycott the provider and contribute in that way. Believe it or not, most of the NR have developed some great relationships with ND Res and appreciate the opportunities that it (they) provides and any negative that effects them, effects me.


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## bigblackfoot

Old hunter, I couldnt agree with you more. I aplaud Dustine for not taking sides on an issue that he isnt completely familiar with, but like you said how can someone from SE of Valley city "side" with a corporation like GM. Its kind of contradictory to say the least. I dont even hunt the areas where this crap is going on, but the the day is coming sooner than later that it will be.

Dustine just wait till they come into your backyard. I think i speak for everyone on here that there has been TO MANY topics on this site dealing with Res vs Non Res, but here is a topic where sportsman/women no matter where they call home can stand together.


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## IAHunter

This is the 21st centuries "market hunting" issue. It crosses all state lines, even national lines. The marketing of game animals in the disguise of "land access" will be an issue that continues to grow as more land is unavailable to the sportsmen on moderate means. Everyone who visits this site has a tale to tell of losing land due to leasing or G/O operations. If they don't have a tale to tell, then they are the subject of the tales. I believe it is time we, as a group, need to start protesting this selling of wildlife on a national, as well as local, level.

IaHunter


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## smalls

*COMING SOON!*

Not sure of the airing date, but soon you will be able to see a hunt on Kent Hrbek's new hunting show filmed on some land recently acquired either by GM or GM's owner near Rock Lake, ND. GM is making a strong land buying push in that area too.

Could that be how GM is getting around the "we don't own land in ND" statement? Could the land be deeded in the owner's name?

I once admired Hrbey, but I guess that was before the pre-fondling Puckett days too. :lame:


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## Bob Kellam

Well Boys and Girls

Gander Mountain is at it again, Just found out that they are purchasing land in the Rock Lake area, I wonder if it was a legal purchase? they are a Minnesota based Corporation.

This is getting real personal, I do a lot of hunting in the Rock Lake area!!!! :******:

Bob


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## curty

Hey Bob ...where is Rock Lake??


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## Bob Kellam

North Central North Dakota a little to the eastern side. Or Northwest of Devils Lake.


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## Field Hunter

Saw the Hrbk show this weekend.....pretty lame. It's just be another persnality doing a show with an outfitter that talks about all the great access.


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## g/o

12


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## Field Hunter

no kidding....just out of couriosity, is the names of landowners list public information?


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## FrozenHusker

According the US Census Bureau, North Dakota has 68,976 sqaure miles of land. Do you really think that 1 company or even 100 companies buying or leasing land will really make a difference in the amount of land available for hunting? If you do you are mistaken, and a sad fearful person.

Appreciate what you do have North Dakota, you have the right to do the same thing as you accuse Gander Mountain, and countless other outfitters of doing. I suggest you get on it now. Buy Land!

Someone owns the land which you think you have a right to hunt, and unless your name is on the deed, you do not decide how to use their property.

Coming from a state with darn near as many people in a single city(Omaha) as you have in your entire state, I can tell you, that the best hunting areas are usually accessed by those who own them, lease them, or are related to those who do. You do not have a right to hunt these areas, they are not yours. No matter what tresspass law etc is in effect.

If someone, or some company is willing to pay more than you, then they obviously will get to use it.

Don't cry me a river about who makes what in this state, because you make your own destiny, and land is dirt cheap here.

There will always be those who are generous enough to give you access to their property, no matter how many outfitters surround you.

You can choose not to spend your money at Gander Mtn, but lets get real, you are not going to accomplish anything by picketting or writing emails to the company. Even if they decide they aren't making money at this venture, someone will continue to purchase and privatize these areas. Probably your neighbor, boss, banker, etc. It is just a fact of life.


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## Ron Gilmore

When was the last time you hunted the Platte or any other River that waterfowl stage just by knocking on the door of someone?

While I understand your view it is not an issue many are will to just look away from. It seems most that are siding with GM or leasing either do so themselves or are connected to those that do. Do not assume anything even if you visit our fine state or where once a res that has moved!

It may be a shock to a lot of people that we value more than money here!


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## Bob Kellam

FrozenHusker

Where do you draw the line in the sand? And yes I do believe that buying and leasing by 1 to 100 companies will make a difference in the volume of huntable land. It already has.

One of the points being missed here is that it is against North Dakota Law for a foreign (out state) corporation to own land unless the purchase is approved by a committee.

I guess the last thing I would like to ask is being from Nebraska how do you feel that you know what is in the best interest of the resident hunters of North Dakota.

And I think you are the only one here that is making reference to, as you put it "Right to Hunt" Hunting is viewed as a privilege by pretty much everyone I know that hunts.

You seem to be destined to the fact that North Dakota is going to go to the highest bidder, It may very well happen, that still does not make it right and it will not stop me from speaking up if I think it is not in the best interest of freelance hunters.


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## Field Hunter

The guys either a Guide or works for GM or he just won the lottery. Hope you stay in Nebraska.


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## gandergrinder

Frozen Husker,
You are under the very false impression that all of the land contains game. It is actually very easy in some areas to monopolize all the land containing certain game species. There are many areas that are competely void of wildlife.

I also think you have missed the whole point of this thread. Why would I pay someone to create a situation where I have to keep paying them.

The mafia has a little game like this, it's called "protection".


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## FrozenHusker

Field Hunter said:


> The guys either a Guide or works for GM or he just won the lottery. Hope you stay in Nebraska.


Or I could have spent the last 2 1/2 years working in Fargo.

Some of the so called "FreeLance" hunters would be "Tresspassers" in any other state. That is why you have no concept of the value placed on land leases and purchases.

My grandparents farm a large chunk of land here in NE, and I would never climb a fence without the land owner knowing I was going to be there.

I think you really missed the point here, its not about WHO owns the land. 
It's the fact that unless its you, someone else calls all the shots.

As far as the point about it being illegal for a corporation to own land, I think you better research that a little more, because I think you are wrong. It is illegal for certain types of corporations to operate an agricultural operations, but the corporation I work for owns 20+ acres in ND.

Gandergrinder, why would a land owner let you hunt his property, it puts him in a position to have to allow every one to hunt it. Oh, wait that is the case in ND unless it is posted every 5 feet.

I understand you guys are trying to protect the resource from being privatized, but the reality is it is going to happen sooner rather than later. More than likely very soon, as the land owning/farming generation is getting old fast.

I am not endorsing this, I am simply pointing out that complaining about it, is like complaining about the color your neighbor painted his house. Its not yours, so their is really nothing you can do about it besides complain.


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## Bob Kellam

Frozenhusker
I Should have clarified my post to say Agricultural Land

From the North Dakota Century Code (NDCC)

47-10.1-02. Restriction on acquisition - Exceptions. A person who is not a citizen of
the United States or a citizen of Canada, except a permanent resident alien of the United States,
may not acquire directly or indirectly any interest in agricultural land. A partnership, limited
partnership, limited liability company, trustee, or other business entity may not, directly or
indirectly, acquire or otherwise obtain any interest, whether legal, beneficial, or otherwise, in any
title to agricultural land unless the ultimate beneficial interest of the entity is held directly or
indirectly by citizens of the United States or permanent resident aliens of the United States. This
section does not apply to agricultural land that may be acquired by devise, inheritance, as
security for indebtedness, by process of law in the collection of debts, or by any procedure for the
enforcement of a lien or claim thereon, whether created by mortgage or otherwise; provided, that
all agricultural land acquired in the collection of debts or by the enforcement of a lien or claim
shall be disposed of within three years after acquiring ownership, if the acquisition would
otherwise violate this section. This section does not apply to a foreign corporation or a foreign
limited liability company which acquires agricultural land for use as an industrial site when
construction contracts are entered into by the corporation or limited liability company within one
hundred fifty days after acquisition of the land; provided, that this exception shall only apply to so
much agricultural land as is reasonably necessary for industrial purposes. A foreign corporation
or a foreign limited liability company which owns agricultural land for industrial purposes but
which discontinues using the land for industrial purposes shall dispose of the land as provided by
chapter 10-06.1. A foreign corporation or foreign limited liability company shall dispose of
agricultural land acquired for industrial purposes within one year after acquisition if construction
contracts are not entered into within one hundred fifty days after acquisition of the land. This
section does not apply to citizens or subjects of a foreign country whose rights to hold land are
secured by treaty or to common carriers by railroad subject to the jurisdiction of the interstate
commerce commission.

47-10.1-03. Recording. A recorder in this state shall not record any instrument affecting
title to, possession of, or interest in agricultural land where the acquiring person or business
entity is in violation of section 47-10.1-02.

47-10.1-04. Enforcement. If the attorney general has reason to believe that any person
is violating section 47-10.1-02, the attorney general shall commence an action in the district court
in which any agricultural land relative to the violation is situated, or if situated in two or more
counties, in the district court for that county in which a substantial part of the land is situated. The
attorney general shall file for record with the recorder in each county in which any portion of the
land is located a notice of the pendency of the action. If the court finds that the land in question
is being held in violation of section 47-10.1-02, it shall enter an order so declaring. The attorney
general shall file for record any such order with the recorder of each county in which any portion
of the land is located. Thereafter, the person, partnership, limited partnership, limited liability
company, trustee, or other business entity owning the land has a period of one year from the
date of the order to divest itself of the lands. The one-year limitation period is deemed a
covenant running with the title to the land against any grantee or assignee. Any land not divested
within the time prescribed shall be sold at public sale in the manner prescribed by law for the
foreclosure of a real estate mortgage by action. In addition, any prospective or threatened
violation may be enjoined by an action brought by the attorney general in the manner provided by
law. No title to land shall be invalid or subject to forfeiture by reason of the alienage of any
former owner or person having a former interest therein.

47-10.1-05. Reports. Any individual, partnership, limited partnership, limited liability
company, trustee, or other business entity prohibited from future acquisition of agricultural land
may retain title to any agricultural land within this state acquired prior to July 1, 1979, but it shall
file a report with the agriculture commissioner by October 1, 1979, and annually before July first
thereafter, containing a description of all agricultural land held within this state, the purchase
price and market value of the land, the use to which it is put, the date of acquisition, and any
other reasonable information required by the commissioner. The commissioner shall make the
information available to the public.

47-10.1-06. Penalty. Willful failure to properly register any parcel of land as required by
section 47-10.1-05; recording, with knowledge, of any instrument in violation of section
47-10.1-02; or any other failure to comply with the provisions of sections 47-10.1-01 through
47-10.1-05 is a class A misdemeanor.

Bob


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## djleye

Husker, I love when OOS gives us info about our state. For what seems like the one millionth time, every body all at once.........."We are NOT nebraska, or Minnesota, or Iowa, or Illinois, etc, etc. We are ND and we are different than the rest of the nation and damn happy about it. Don't compare the crap you have in your state to ours"!!!!!

:eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## bigblackfoot

Amen, to that djelye!!!!


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## BB

I was just reading some previous replies on this thread and thought I could clear some things up. 
1) The Kent Hrbek Hunt. Kent hunted in Kenmare w/ a guide and after slow hunting, came over to Rocklake to hunt with us. It was more of a stopover on his way home. We shot like 5 snows one morning and he didn't have waders so he pretty much stood on shore while we duck hunted that night. We are not guides and hunted public land and private land that was not posted. My family is in on a camp up there that has been there since the 70's. That hunt was filmed in '03 so its not even up to date with all this GM buying land. My uncle is the exec producer of the show and i can tell you that the goal of the show is not to go out and pound ducks and geese fred zink style. More of a deal where they want to hunt, fish, etc. a variety of places and feature local personalities and kids. 
2) Gander Mtn is not buying land up there. Mark Baker who is the head of Gander has an old college roommate that hunts w/ us and he joined us for 2 days this year. Had he not had to be in Fargo for the opening of the store there, I doubt he would have even made the effort to make it up. The land we have isn't good for much more than a few bales of hay and one decent 1/4 sec. of grain....so i doubt gander would have much interest in that. Baker is fortunate enough to have a plane (or 7) so he flew us up which i cannot complain about. He had a camp in ND (central part) for something like 20 yrs and sold it because he was tired of the NR issue. For him, it is just easier to fly an extra half hr or so and be in sask or manitoba. I noticed someone earlier that said GM's owner is buying land and i found it interesting that I spent 3 days with the guy and knew nothing off it. He is a very detail oriented guy so it seems like he would have at least liked to see land if he did actually purchase it. 
I am in no way in favor of companies like gander or cabelas buying up land but I thought some truthful info might help this discussion out.


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## goosehtr4life

:eyeroll: Frozen Husker...take your BS additude and keep it in Nebraska...go purchase land?? Yah everybody has a few extra 100,000 laying around to do that... People like you just don't get it!!! We have lived our lives a certain way and no matter what people like you think we will FIGHT to keep it that way and not roll over like people in your state have done....

Sounds like to me your jealous of our tresspass laws in our state...A lot of famers WELCOME hunters with open arms...Farmes that don't want to be bothered or want to allow hunting don't post their land..What is wrong with that???? And by the way you don't need a poster every 5ft..Maybe you should know how the law reads??

By your logic we should just all roll over and let the g/o industry break laws and do whatever they want..and hold no one accountable..

Maybe that is what you did...But like many have stated we are not and will never be like anywhere else..

uke: Take your crap somewhere else!!!


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## DeltaBoy

Well then how do you explain this...

I was getting my haircut and having a discussion with the person who is cutting my hair... Those get interesting! :lol:

Anyways, she said that she was talking to a farmer around the Bismarck area and he had mentioned that GM had asked about his farmland. :******:

I understand that it's a business and an opportunity. As a Res. of ND I don't agree with this at all... I am glad to see all the opinions, facts, and most of all that people who care about ND.


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## KEN W

BB....I haven't seen anywhere on this site where anyone said GM was buying land.

They have said that GM is leasing land.


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## DJRooster

I happen to go to Fargo yesterday and not knowing where Gander was happen to see it along the road and my first impression was, "do not go there." Then I happen to go by Sportsman Warehouse and my first impression was, "go there." It is a personal choice and quite frankly my choice has been made because of the information that I have learned here. I reallize that all posts are not 100% correct but I think there is enough information to make a rational decision and I will not shop at Gander Mountain. That is what is so great about America because we have choices. They might make a little money from their leasing operation but they will lose a little because of the same. It is a personal but difficult choice because I have friends on both ends of the spectrum.


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## BB

Ken W go up to the top of this page (7) and read the first two posts:
Smalls says something about Hrbek hunting on 'land recently acquired either by GM or GM's owner'
the next sentence says something about.....'GM is making a strong land buying push in that area too'
(I got a kick out of this because we called a land owner the night before the hunt and asked permission just like everybody else does....he had his land posted for deer and told us good luck...there werent even really a huntable number of snows around. Just that we couldn't find any ducks in the fields and hrbek didn't bring waders)
The post following that by bob kellam says something about: 'Gander Mountain is at it again, Just found out that they are purchasing land....'
I guess I see the words acquire, buying, purchasing more related to buying than leasing.....just me though.
I am with you guys on keeping things open for freelancing and in no way am i defending the idea of commercializing the state. When i see the way some of the info has been manipulated, I can't help but say something.


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## Ron Gilmore

They have been in talks to make land acquisitions in ND BB. It is a matter of splitting hairs if yo want to become technical about the issue. Now the main issue still remains as to whether GM or EO will face charges in ND for violation of our laws. Will they continue to compete with their customer base in this region?

Main points are on tract here. Bias,rumor,innuendo are all part of INTERNET threads. Cut away the crap on this issue and it still stinks. Gander and Cabala's and Bass Pro will no longer get my business. If others chose to do as I am doing so be it. If you want to continue being a patron to these types of companies so be it.


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## Bobm

> Gander and Cabala's and Bass Pro will no longer get my business. If others chose to do as I am doing so be it. If you want to continue being a patron to these types of companies so be it.


Ron I agree and I have also stopped all my magazine subscriptions that have ads for leasing, lodges ect. I sent a letter to each and explained why to them. Unless we boycott the industries that support commercialization freelance hunting is over and these people will end up selling the publics game animals to the higher bidders. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution there is no grey area.


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## TheEnd

wow!! i farm around egland nd and i am one to hope there is no outfitters moving into the rock lake area  that would be pointless only mn bush wackers go there any way :lol: beside the locals


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## Rick Fode

If we had someone with a pair in office that would limit the number of NR's to include small game the problem would be over. If the limit was at 5000 total, that would be enough to discourage most people from even trying to apply for a license here just like in SD. My friends from down there love the cap and don't even start duck hunting there until the 3rd week of duck season in ND. A low cap on NR's is what we need, and the heck with economic develpment, I'm from a town of 150 and we don't like to see out of state plates!


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## upland420

With that right wing dolt Hoven as the gov do you think for ONE SECOND that he will allow charges to be brought against one of his big money corporate bretheren over this issue?? Puuuulease.


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## Rick Fode

Our current governor is far from a right winger, he used to be a democrat until he ran for governor, he is all about money. He is a banker and wants to raise teacher salaries, what republican thinks like that. He is the root of the problem, too bad we have to put up with him for 4 more years. If he gets his way, hunting as we know it will be gone forever. I hate the thought and everything he stands for, even plots (plots would have happened even if Heidi Heitkamp would have been elected) I have never voted for a democrat until this years governor race.


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## racer66

Here is a copy of the reply GM sent back to me.

Gander Mountain has released the following information in response to customer questions concerning the issue of land development in North Dakota.

We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access for our customers.

Thank you
Gander Mountain


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## DeltaBoy

What....

They are going around everything that was stated! :-?


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## Maverick

> We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access for our customers.


If this a response from them, they are saying one thing and doing another
*Saying*


> We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North Dakota


.
*Doing*


> We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts of providing access for our customers


Basically saying we don't personally guide but we can set you up with guides that we manage to set up?


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## racer66

Maybe we should invite them on to this board to discuss this issue?


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## nodakoutdoors.com

The topic isn't going anywhere until there is an honest reponse. Maybe when there's 50,000 views?


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

DIE GANDER MOUNTAIN SCUM!!!!!!!!!!! :******: :******: :******:


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## Drifter

CABELA'S is doing the same thing in Nebraska and probably other states also. We help them make a profit so they can end our hunting as we know it!


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## leadshot

Any hunting sites on the web in different states like this one, that this can be posted? It would be a good idea to spread the word even more. After all, there is enough people from the southern states that come here to hunt that never heard of gander mountain. If they knew what was going on, they would probably decide to shop in a different store


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## toad1966

Fellow waterfowl Hunters! Im also from Nebraska. I applaud your efforts to keep your state as free from the corporate hunt bullys as you possibly can. Cabelas has been doing this in Nebraska for years. They've bought river land, huge ranchs and just about all of the lands near our refuges. Our legislator would'nt think of trying to stop these practices but I believe yours is much more receptive to the sportsmen. Fight these corporate raiders as hard as you can. NODAK is a great state with wonderful opportunitys for sportsmen. Don't let corporate greed spoil what you have fought to keep. Count this Husker on your side TOAD


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## Somrock

I would encourage everyone to write a letter to Gander Mountain Inc.

Corporate Office
4567 American Boulevard West
Bloomington, MN 55437
Toll Free: 1-800-282-5993
Phone: (952) 830-8700

Online customer service will not go anywhere.


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## smalls

I caught the end of the "Outdoor Expeditions" tv show this morning on the Mens Channel. At the end was a 1 minute advertisement for OEI and the land they sell for "Hunting, fishing, recreation and retirement".

Who owns OEI?

I know what will be printed on the back of the free GM t-shir I got at their grand openingt-

"We'll gladly piss on your back and tell you it's raining"


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## 870 XPRS

The thread crossed over the 20K mark this afternoon.

Anyways a few weeks ago I was in a small town bar and roughly 80-87.362% of individuals were wearing Gander hats, didn't actually perform a head count but it would probably be in that area. Almost puked


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## Habitat Hugger

Frozenhusker has a perfect right to his opinions. Disagree with him but no "body slams!" That is why we have freedom of speech in this country. He also makes some good points, that like it or not, some degree of pay for hunting is here to stay and won't get any better. 
As far as everyone blasting any company that supports, advertises this industry, I just noted that there are tons of ads and links to outfitters and pay to hunt places on this website, same as "Brand X" website. Are you guys going to shut off your computers?? I doubt that Chris will refuse this type of ad, unless he raises the yearly membership pretty significantly. 
Can't blame the landowners for wanting to make an extra buck with their land, same as any other new cash crop that came along. No point us doing nothing but complaining about it and attempting to pass a lot of relatively self serving laws that make sportsmen look greedy and only serve to alienate landowners trying to sctarch out a living in ND. We should be spending time figuring out ways to get along and compromise, and keep and improve our own hunting opportunities while still allowing farmers and ranchers ways to increase their incomes with the resources they own and HAVE CONTROL OF! If that means we have to subsidise landowners with some of our own hard earned cash, be it through Plots, other G&F programs, or our own personal back pockets, instead of GM, Cabellas, or any number of outfitter referral companies, that's life! There's lots written on good will between landowners and sportsmen, but to more and more landowners, like other businesses,"cash is king!" Stay open minded, guys!
And, no - I'm not a G/O, just an honest hard workin taxpaying huntin fishin North Dakotan like the rest of you. I'd love to go back to how it was 50 years ago when I first started hunting, (I still remember the first "no hunting" sign I ever saw) but for better or worse, it'll never be!


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## Habitat Hugger

By the way, excellent website!! - I just found out about it in the local paper a couple of days ago.


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## nodakoutdoors.com

FYI,

Other than what google serves up, I don't persue or have any commercial ads on this site.

See this link for an explanation of google ads:

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... php?t=6429

I turn down LOTS of advertising every year from commercial interests. I feel it's important to note, it's not promoted here.

Chris



Huntnfishnhabitathugger said:


> As far as everyone blasting any company that supports, advertises this industry, I just noted that there are tons of ads and links to outfitters and pay to hunt places on this website, same as "Brand X" website. Are you guys going to shut off your computers?? I doubt that Chris will refuse this type of ad, unless he raises the yearly membership pretty significantly.


Thanks for the compliments!



Huntnfishnhabitathugger said:


> By the way, excellent website!! - I just found out about it in the local paper a couple of days ago.


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## Dick Monson

H, you have quite a handle there. Welcome to the site, some here disagree on points, but polite discourse is always welcome.



> No point us doing nothing but complaining about it and attempting to pass a lot of relatively self serving laws that make sportsmen look greedy and only serve to alienate landowners trying to sctarch out a living in ND.


I am a farmer. Avid hunter. Life long North Dakotan. When I look at the bogus legislative bills pouring into the legislature now, I have to scratch my head in wonderment.

1. ND has far more important issues than hunting, yet last session there 74 hunting bills tracked, primarly efforts to bolster a hsndful of outfitters and gut the professional wildlife management at NDGF. That effort will be repeated this year. It is to our states loss. Bills should not be designed to enrich a handful at the expense of the many. A waste of legislative time.

2. Public ownership of game is not a policy plank from the brownie scouts, it is the law of the land. It is code. Corporate outfitting like Gander Mountain appears to be pursing is detrimental to the health of the state. If you are aware of rural economics you know there is a river of money pouring out of the state due to our commercialized hunting laws. A few benefit at the expense of the many. And the sportsmen are called greedy? I beg to differ. When it comes to businesses that support commercial hunting, hunters are obligated to vote with their pocket book. Gander is well aware.


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## Habitat Hugger

I sure agree with you Dick on most of these bills that are being attempted to be put through. Luckily there are a lot of watchdogs out there, such as on this website. Commercialization of hunting is never a good thing and I'm sure against it - a bit of it is OK but there has to be limits! I was just playing Devil's advocate and pointing out that like it or not and for better or worse times are changing, and though game is public property, access, other than public land, is not. I love the idea of "voting with your feet, or pocketbook" but as someone pointed out, if it isn't Cabelas or GM knocking at the door, someone else will. Like it or not, more and more it is going to cost us hard earned cash, one way or another, through taxes, increased licence fees, personal cash, etc. for that private land access. If we public sportsmen types don't pay for it, one way or another, someone else will! I loved it in the past when all you needed was a gun, licence, a few gallons of 25 cent gas, and the whole country was free to be hunted, but those good old days are gone and we sportsmen have to adapt with the changing times. I get a headache just thinking about it!


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## micdundee

I went to the link from earlier on this page and complained here is the response I got from them:

"Mr. Clausen,

Gander Mountain has released the following information in response to customer
questions concerning the issue of land development in North Dakota.

We can assure you that our company is not in the business of operating an outfitting
business nor managing land in any way. We do not buy, lease or own land in North
Dakota. We are working with current outfitters and land owners to assist our efforts
of providing access for our customers.

Thank you
Gander Mountain"


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## ndrooster

PETA doesn't have to exist in ND to get us to stop hunting. Outfitters , leased land, posted up land, stupid legislation will knock out the average hunter in just a few years. Wow! All these sporting goods stores and no one to buy from them! Big empty buildings, loss of jobs, no tax revenue. Only ones who will enjoy our outdoors is high rolling out of staters and the buffalo. I have spent over 40 years "in the field" hunting and the disappoiintment I feel when I see mile after mile and slough after slough posted up by a leasing outfit is making me think about joining the old timers on the rocking chair and I ain't even 50 yet.


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## buchwheat

If they dont use it for open land hunting what would they use it for.


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## GoGanderGo

Wow you guys have quite the time on your hands. I think you all are taking this a little overboard. Your bashing will go nowhere with this situation. If you are worried about losing your place to hunt then why aren't you in contact with your buddy landowner to inform him not to lease his land to certain guides or outfitters. Bottom line is money talks. The Farming industry is at a struggle all across the country. So of course your permission giver landowner is going to accept any offer that is more than his usual lease. Put yourself in their situation. If you are a struggling farmer wouldn't you accept $10 an acre rather than $5? No Brainer here folks. If you really want this to stop, you guys should get off your butts and petition the landowners not give up their land to these g/o's. I know of a private rep company who sells AG chemicals to farmers in my area. he also happens to be a waterfowl guide. He cuts farmers deals on the chemicals to get sole permission of prime goose fields to run his guide business. Once again money talks. Remember he who owns the land has the right to say NO! :eyeroll:


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## Old Hunter

gogandergo It seems that you have a little time on your hands also. You are very wrong about this protest not having an effect on Gander Mt. You better ask Mike what this is doing to sales volume in the Fargo store. I was the first customer to make a purchase at the new Gander store in Fargo. I spent a lot of money in that store in a short time. I spend thousands of dollars each year on sporting goods. None of my business goes to Gander Mtn. Got toghether with some hunting friends for beers this weekend. They are avid outdoors people but not familiar with this site(until sat.) When they heard what Gander was doing they vowed that they never buy there until Gander gets out of booking/guiding/outfitting any of the above. They told me they were taking this information to their extended family members and asking them not to buy anything at Gander Mt. That represents 5 active hunting and fishing families that will not buy at GM There are hundreds of poeple that do not buy from GM because of what they are doing. I have informed hunters from Minn to Colo about GM's activities. They dont like it. There is no way that you or I can estimate their losses but I know it is a considerable amount. It is not just ND people that are upset at GM 20,0000 hits on this post with 99.9% anti GM many of these people expressing anger are nonresidents that have been coming here for a long time. When Rick A sniffed out GM's intentions I went in to GM and told Mike that it would backfire on him. He got a sad smile on his face and said " You might be right". Their venture into this area of commercialization of hunting has cost them plenty. The path they are taking is going to hurt their bottom line. They didn't know what they were getting in for. They could come out of this situation looking like a hero if they make the right moves there is still time. They can get out of this part of the business and cut their losses. They can do it quietly or with fanfare. Either way would work. If they pursue the course they are on there will be alot more protest in the future. I will guarantee you that I will be at the center of it. This may get much worse before it gets better. There are many legal avenues to pursue a counter to GM's actions. This is a lose/ lose situation the sooner GM realizes this the better off they will be. Dont Kid yourself this is hurting their bottom line. The question is will their ego allow them to admit that they made a mistake.They did not realize the local traditions. Sometimes its much better to admit that you made a mistake and apologize. This is an option for them. This fight will not blow away with time.


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## gandergrinder

GoGanderGo,

The landowner has the right to do what they want with their land and I have the right to do what I want with the money in my account. I choose not to give it to Gander Mountain. Pretty similar, don't you think?


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## jdpete75

GoGanderGo said:


> The Farming industry is at a struggle all across the country. If you are a struggling farmer wouldn't you accept $10 an acre rather than $5? :


Stop pissing on my back and telling me its raining. Lots of new houses going up and too many new vehicles to actually tell me there is no money in farming. I live on a farm and drink in a rural bar I know what the real deal is, so stop peddling your BS here!


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## Bobm

> Stop pissing on my back and telling me its raining. Lots of new houses going up and too many new vehicles to actually tell me there is no money in farming. I live on a farm and drink in a rural bar I know what
> the real deal is, so stop peddling your BS here!


I'll second that!!Farmers get more tax dollars than any other group and like all welfare recipients many ( not all) don't appreciate it and have decided to skin the taxpayers again by selling game animals they don't own. Its sickening!!!


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## 4CurlRedleg

ndrooster said:


> PETA doesn't have to exist in ND to get us to stop hunting. Outfitters , leased land, posted up land, stupid legislation will knock out the average hunter in just a few years. Wow! All these sporting goods stores and no one to buy from them! Big empty buildings, loss of jobs, no tax revenue. Only ones who will enjoy our outdoors is high rolling out of staters and the buffalo. I have spent over 40 years "in the field" hunting and the disappoiintment I feel when I see mile after mile and slough after slough posted up by a leasing outfit is making me think about joining the old timers on the rocking chair and I ain't even 50 yet.


There you have it! This gentleman gets it!!


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## Live To Hunt

Those who have to buy a hunt aren't even hunters and don't have any right to call themselves as such. I take pride in working hard to find my own land to hunt. Hunting is supposed to an adventure/experience. These outfitters have turned the sacred art of hunting into SHOOTING. It's pathetic uke:. I'm only 23 and would like to think I have a lot of good years of hunting left, but I'm coming to the realization that i better realy enjoy the next couple of years because it may not be around much longer than that at current trends.


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## Pluckem

Rumor going around that Gander is moving into the Walmart building on south Washington Street in Bismarck. Walmart is relocating and building a supercenter. It was in the Tribune on Sunday. A spokesman for Gander said they never thought about that location, but thats what they always say when the timing isnt right to make it public. ....who knows?


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## ndrooster

EYE OPENER - Cabelas VP has been in negotiations for their organization for the last several months to buy Gander Mtn (they bought out the catalog years ago by the way) - then THEY will have their foot in the door for leasinig ND lands through their company - which they do in other states already. It is a spiral down the tube for regular hunters. uke:


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## buckseye

Cabelas Outdoor Adventure already books hunts in ND, go to their site and look it up. They pay the landowners very very good and I am one of many who can't hunt there anymore. :evil:


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## KEN W

This will end if HB1276 passes the Senate and is signed by the governor.


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## buckseye

That would really change deer hunting in this area. They have 5000 acres bordering the refuge on the east side between Willow and Towner.


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## KEN W

that's why we need to support 1276 bigtime.

Lines 22-24 on page 3......

A business entity may not conduct business operations through a subsidiary, contractor, or an agent that would permit the business entity to avoid this chapter. This section does not authorize any act or transaction prohibited by any other law of this state.


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## redsun

I am new to this site only found it last night. One of my hunting friends had told me what GM was up to and I also don't feel that this is right. I and my hunting friends come over from Mn to hunt upland every year. As time has went on we have seen more and more land posted. It still does not seem to be a problem to get on land if you ask. The more land that is leased up by these major corporations the less land the rest of us will have to hunt on. I and my hunting buddies have talked about this for years we would rather pay more money for a non-resident license to hunt so that of the farmers can get in on the plots program or other programs of this nature. I also feel for the farmer and realize that a lot of them are having a tough time of trying to make it on the farm these days. There has to be a solution that would make every one happy. My thought is the more farmers that are happy the more land that they will let me hunt on. I would like to take this moment to thank all of the farmers that have been so graous to let me and my friends to access their land to hunt. Your state gives us an opportunity that a lot of other states no longer afford you. Just take a look a your neighbor to the south. When I first started hunting there in the mid fifthies you could get permission to hunt just about any farm in the state after the first weekend. Now the state is full of commercial hunting opporations. The state lands are the only ones that it seems you can get access to in the best hunting areas unless you are willing to hand over a lot of money. When the time comes that I have to pay $150.00 a day to hunt along with the rest of the expenses that go along with a hunting trip I will be done. What wories me most is what is it going to be like for my grand kids. I would like to think that in the future they would be able to enjoy hunting and fishing as much as I have in my lifetime. The way things are going now most people will only be able to afford to get out once a year at the most and then what happens to the tradition of hunting that so many of us older people have enjoyed during our lives.


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## goldhunter470

It sadens me greatly to see such a practice going on in ND. When I must pay for land to hunt on which I used to get access to by just a knock on the door, my days of getting up at 4:00 AM on a cold fall morning are done. I agree with redsun in that it is too bad my 5 and 3 year old sons may not get to enjoy the many cold crisp mornings or those beautiful fall sunsets in the field. I don't think GM realizes the harm they have done. Word spreads fast in this small rural state and people here don't like outsiders (meaning big corporations) coming in here and taking away our hunting RIGHTS. Lack of access = lack of hunting. We all need to stand up to them and not take this. There are many other stores that sell what they do. (many of them are cheaper too!) Don't take this laying down or we may not win!


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## curty

goldhunter470, Thanks for the suppport but please don't stop there.Get involved as much as you can spare the time for. When you look at some other states that already have to much commercial hunting you could consider us the last frontier so to speak.


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## goldhunter470

I haven't stopped there. Everyone I know is now aware of this. I even printed up flyers that are being distributed in my area. ( I drive truck so these will get around.) I have no intention of stopping. I know I alone cannot do much about this but if I inform one person they will inform one and so on. Any message sent to GM will be ingnored. The only thing they will listen to is the silence of their cash registers!!! Keep fighting the good fight in the last outpost of non-commercial hunting!!!


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## fungalsnowgoose

Rememeber GM is owned by Holiday. So if your going to boycott GM you need to also boycot holiday gas stations :wink:


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## Old Hunter

Thank you for the reminder about Holiday gas stations owning GM. I will not buy gas there in the future. I would ask that other concerned hunters refuse to give their business to these companys.I have personally convinced 20 active outdoor families not to buy at Gander Mtn. They will never make up the loss of sales and credibility they have created by their venture into the outfitting business. 
DO NOT BUY FROM GANDER MTN. OR HOLIDAY GAS STATIONS.


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## goldhunter470

Preach on brother!!!!!!!!!!! :beer:


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## rustygunner

where does Sportsmans Warehouse fall into this conversation???


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## wiscokid

Yes I would like to know that also!


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## Bob Kellam

Sportsmans Warehouse is a very good sporting goods store. there is no information that I know of that links them to any of the activities discussed here. I have spent some time in the store on numerous occasions. The staff is friendly and if they can not answer your question they will find someone that can.

Later
Bob


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## 1100man

Just found this site, its a good one. I would like to make 3 points on this hunting issue:

1. Some landowners post the land just so they know exactly who is hunting on it, but still may give permission.

2. If you don't want to start paying to hunt, you had better work harder at establishing a relationship with the landowner. Take a day off of work and help out during his busy season, let him know how much you appreciate hunting there, or become his friend. Then you probably will not have to worry about the land being leased out. The old "10 min of BS" to get permission and then not seeing you till next year is a thing of the past and many nonresident hunters have figured this out years ago.

3. Someone who has to drive a few hours just to get to the hunting area will gladly pay to make sure he has a place to come back to hunt the next year. It doesn't have to be "prime" just a decent place to come back to.


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## goosehtr4life

1100man in the past this was fact, but unfortunately in a lot of cases money talks, relationships are great but I know at any time the rug can be pulled out from under me by someone offering Hard Cash for leasing of the land. Trust me I've seen it. I don't condon the land owner, it is their land and they can do what they want. But to try to say that, hey get a good relationship and your future will be secure is not realistic...


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## bratlabs

Some may say its none of my buisness because Im a NR, but it sounds like you guys are getting screwed. I dont mean just the hunters but the landowners, well I guess everybody. I am coming to ND for the first time this weekend to hunt on private land obtained through freinds who where out there last year and asked permission. I have never bought a hunt(shoot) nor do I plan on doing so. If I had to pay for someone to hold my hand and tell me what to do, I would bring my wife hunting  . If you guys want a couple of WI boys in this with you, you got it.


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## Old Hunter

bratlabs Thank you for your support. I am asking that you tell your hunting partners not to buy their gear from Gander Mtn. As you can see there are people all over the country that realize that GM is doing somthing that will take away opportunities from the average hunter. Help us keep these GIANT CORPORATIONS from controling the hunting in North Dakota. Thanks again.


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## RWHONKER

I went into the sportsman's warehouse in Fargo for the first time on friday and was very impressed. Where I grew up all we had to choose from was cabela's or GM. Now that I see that I have other options and from what I have read on this topic I will be going to Sportsman's Warehouse too buy my hunting supplies from now on. Thanks for all the info. very informative.


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## KEN W

It not just happening here.....here is a post on another site form a hunter in Tennessee....

Leasing land is becoming a huge problem for us "blue collar" hunters down here. All the rich guys lease everything, so that we have nowhere to hunt. Then they go out and whine about why they can't buy up all your land too, so you can pay them to hunt your native soil. No thanks.

The new issue in my home state is large corporations such as Gander Mountain and Cabelas buying and leasing land with the dollars sportsman spend in their stores, and operating outfitting services. So basically they take my $$ and use it to kick me off my hunting grounds.


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## curty

Hey guys check out the April issue of Field and Stream....Front cover has ___ HUNTING LAND BUYER'S GUIDE..five pages.
What it all costs
The power of partnerships
Buyers checklist
Conservation programs
land for sale :eyeroll: 
Anything you ever wanted to know about tying up more land. :eyeroll:


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## jdpete75

Then we can see LOTS more of this. uke:

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/album_page.php?pic_id=1100

Our legislators better start doing something about this crap before its to late.


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## Maverick

The only thing that could make that sign better is a round of buckshot!


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## lake 17

That's what North Dakota needs, more hunters shooting signs and not showing respect for other people's property.


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## David416

I have been reading all your posts and I guess I am a bit shocked, perplexed and confused...not by Gander Mountain or Cabela's but with your reasoning. After reading everything and seeing how you have dealt with anyone who seems disagree with your position, I don't deceive myself into believing any of you for an instance will take a moment to reconsider your positions. You will throw spears, curse and generally run me out...but here it goes anyway.

To begin, I will let you all know where I am coming from - I have worked in the outdoor industry for the last 10 years - mainly in the retail end of it, but I have guided, wrote, shot video, hosted TV and even booked trips. I know that makes me the devil in your eyes but it does give me the basis to which to tell you for a fact that Cabela's or Gander mountain DOES NOT GUIDE, OWN LAND, LEASE LAND etc! Like I said I know this for a fact - there is too much liability, risk and investment involved. I have watched this thread for awhile and choose to ignore it instead of flaming your fire ...however one can only tolerate so many lies! The bottom line is these rumors get started in many ways and there are way too many people who are happy to spread them and embelish them along the way. All it takes is one Cabela's employee to buy or lease a tract a of land and within days the locals will be saying "You know Cabela's leased that up?" Forget the fact that it was four buddies one of which worked for Cabela's - none of them being wealthy..just looking for a good spot.

On to my second point...did I step away for a second while Canada invaded the USA with their socialistic thinking? This country (and yes that includes North Dakota - like it or not) was founded and CAPITALISM...and Supply and Demand Principles. Why do you think you have the right to hunt where ver you want whenever you want? The keyword in this thread is PRIVATE property - meaning that like any good American the landowner can do what he wants to with it. If he wants to let anyone who comes knock on the door hunt fine, if he wants to guide fine, if he wants to lease to a guide..once again fine! The point is it is his property, he paid for it, he pays the taxes and you want it for free...I can see why you are up in arms - getting to hunt thousands of acres while someone else pays the bills IS a good deal. I wouldn't want to loose it either!

Finally you all act like this is something new. It is not. Guides have been opperating since the days of the Wild and Wolley West. You have been frequenting gun shops throughout your local area since you were a kid and there have been always been guide's business cards or brochures on the counter But when a large company promotes (and remember that word as that IS ALL Cabela's or Gander Mountain is doing is PROMOTING) a guide service to give their customers the best experience possible (as well know there are shady opperations out there) they are drug over the coals for it.

Gander Mountain, Cabela's and Bass Pro all book trips for outfitters...and they are very small in the overall sceme of thing - go to any sportshow - literally there are thousands of smaller companies doing the same thing..

As for these hunts are for the RICH that is a load of hogwash.. I know many guys who take guided hunts or lease land - most make probably what the majority of you all make. They are average run of the mill blue collar Americans. They save up - they don't golf, they don't ski, they don't go out drinking - to them, hunting is the most important past time and they pay for it. I know you think it is all the rich but you are wrong - as good as you think ND is there is better hunting and the rich generally frequent it. Argentina, Africa, England, Scottland and Mexico all offer much, much better wingshooting than ND and trust me there are guy who go to these destination every year.

Can you imagine how insane this conversation would sound if it was extended to any other pastime? Golf, Skiing, Etc? The course or mountain spends all the money to make a great experience and you just come enjoy it for free! Be thankful that there is lots of public land available throughout the United States for everyone to enjoy - I have had many great experiences on public land, yes the required more time in scouting, more effort to get away from the crowds but it was still a good time. And really that what all you keep talking about is the experience...many great experiences can be had on public land.

As for hunting going away and reserved only for the rich - that is also a lie. I have spent a considerable amount of time in Africa and while the American Trophy hunters pay the bills, all the locals who want to still get to hunt for cheap "Locals only" rates - they pay for it (at a cheap price) and have much better hunting than we could ever imagine. The only case anyone everthrows out there is England which is comparing Apples to Oranges. England is Tiny and they have no public land. The United States is huge and has lots of private land - so comparing England to America is completely unjustified.

Like I said, I highly doubt I will sway anyones opinion, but I read all I could and at least wanted to correct some of the untruths!


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## g/o

12


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## David416

I checked well before I posted. Whatever Jay did before gander bought him is his business (Not argueing as I don't know about his opperation). But currently Gander does not own any land/lease any land but simply books - this has been the case since they bought Jay Anderson's Period! In fact have you even seen their new . catalog? There isn't a single ND destination in there.

David


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## g/o

12


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## djleye

> I have had many great experiences on public land, yes the required more time in scouting, more effort to get away from the crowds but it was still a good time.


You mean to tell me that if I go out and scout I might be able to find some land to hunt.......well golly am I ever excited now, I cannot wait for next hunting season. I am so excited about this new scouting thing. I think it will really pay off for me!!!! :withstupid:


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## SiouxperDave25

Maverick said:


> The only thing that could make that sign better is a round of buckshot!


One of the posted signs on my dad's land was destroyed by multiple gunshots a few years ago. I'll see if I can find the pic and post it. If you want to piss off a landowner, destroying his/her property is a surefire way to do it.


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## DuckBuster

David- 
GM has a catalog, since when? They sold their original in 1996.... 
As far as GM not leasing goes....THEY OWN OUTDOOR EXPEDITIONS!!! Sounds pretty cut and dried to me. [/quote]


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## Maverick

> If you want to piss off a landowner, destroying his/her property is a surefire way to do it.


Now let's not take things to literally. HUMOR PEOPLE. I can say personally that I have never done it but have come around a lot of ORANGE signs that are from a g/o that people don't like. They are starting to show some wear. I like the way they look!! With holes in them! Now pertaining to a land owner to a guide is 2 different stories!IMO


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## The Norseman

Good Afternoon everyone,

Givvvve ittttt a reesssssttttttt!

This post is way to long.

You guys sound like kids at recess.

:eyeroll:


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## DuckBuster

Norseman-

There is any easy way to get this to not bother you.... don't read it!! :eyeroll:


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## Old Hunter

David 416 Could you tell me where I could get a copy of the New Gander Mtn. catalog?


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## Bob Kellam

David 416
You seem to have a preconceived notion of North Dakota sportsmen. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that you are not from North Dakota. I think the issue of outfitting and guiding in North Dakota is the problem from my point of view, more so with those leasing land. I have crunched the numbers on more than one occasion for people that I am acquainted with in the industry. Every time it comes up that, the business will save money by enhancing and creating habitat vs. leasing habitat land.

Is it a good thing for Mott North Dakota businesses to be struggling because Hettinger County has 49,000 acres of leased land that is reported, (there are many acres that are not reported) and the highest percentage of Outfitter/Guide operations in the state. This practice has resulted in a lockout for those that can not afford to pay $100.00 to $200.00+ per gun per day. Many hunters in North Dakota hunt often, I hunted for 50 days last year total. At $100.00 per day, that would cost me $5000.00 just for access. With all of the other expenses involved with hunting it would likely be twice that amount. So for me and many others in our state we chose to freelance hunt and ask for access wherever and whenever we can. By the way, many of us do not get access free we work for the landowners or do what we have to, to create relationships with the landowners that allow us access. There are not very many on this site that have not had the experience of seeing a chunk of land that was accessible to them at one time be closed to hunting because the land was leased by an outfitter or another group. Sour grapes no, disappointment yes. In my case I still consider the landowner a friend and stop to see them any time I am in the area.

You are correct Land owners own the land and they may do whatever they wish within the boundaries of the law. There are few if any people here that do not consider hunting access a privilege on private land, however, the game that is occupying that land be it private or public is owned by the State of North Dakota. The exception in North Dakota being shooting preserves. The following is from the North Dakota Century Code:

North Dakota Century Code 20.1-01-03

Ownership and Control of Wildlife is in the state - Damages - Schedule of monetary values - Civil penalty

The ownership of and title to all wildlife within this state is in the state for the purpose of regulating the enjoyment, use, possession, disposition and conservation thereof, and for maintaining action for damages as herin provided. Any person catching, killing, taking trapping, or possessing any wildlife protected by law at any time or in any manner is deemed to have consented that the title thereto remains in this state for the purpose of regulating the taking, use possession, and disposition thereof...

The above paragraph is only part of the scenario when it comes to wildlife. Being a North Dakota landowner, I receive subsidies from the government because of agricultural related practices on that land, I also receive Federal Payments from the Farm Program and CRP. It may be a stretch but I feel that by being subsidized through the taxes people pay, that people are already compensating me for access to game that we all own. You may ask why I do not hunt my own land, well the answer is I like the change of landscape. Our land gets pounded pretty hard because some of the prime CRP is not posted and the stuff that is gets pounded because the locals feel they have the right because there is no one living on the land.

As far as I am concerned if you abide by the laws set forth in the NDCC for guiding and outfitting, there is nothing anyone can say or do to stop guiding from taking place. It is a legal business and there are no laws against leasing land. *The main point here that keeps getting lost in the discussion is that Jay Anderson's Outdoor Expeditions broke the laws of North Dakota by Outfitting without a North Dakota License to guide and outfit. Gander Mountain purchased Mr. Anderson's business without even checking the laws that regulate the industry, and if they did check the laws, they chose to ignore them after the purchase.*

North Dakota has just passed a new law that is designed to limit the business's ability to Outfit and Guide in North Dakota if the majority of the stock in the corporation is not held in North Dakota. The bill is HB 1276.

Later
Bob


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## Matt Jones

Jay Strangis never guided. He sold "unguided" hunts where the clients paid him for land access and lodging. I don't know much about the guide laws but maybe that is how he got around them.


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## griffman

Bob Kellam said:


> There are not very many on this site that have not had the experience of seeing a chunk of land that was accessible to them at one time be closed to hunting because the land was leased by an outfitter or another group. Sour grapes no, disappointment yes. In my case I still consider the landowner a friend and stop to see them any time I am in the area.
> 
> There are few if any people here that do not consider hunting access a privilege on private land, Bob


Amen Brother! :thumb:

I used to have access by New Leipzig. The landowners (still friends) opened up their house to a bed in breakfast type place. While they never said we couldn't hunt there, or never charged us, we felt "out of place" with out of staters staying at their place and hunting near by.

We always felt they would have let the out of staters hunt their land if we were not there. We didn't want to interfere with their "good thing" of making a few extra bucks, so we stopped hunting there.


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## g/o

12


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## curty

David 416.....besides your argument with truth and lies about if they lease land, borrow, use, whatever. I talked with the owner of Outdoor Expeditions. This is a different point of view. As a motel owner I was informed by THIER WEBSITE that the package included rooms. BUT if you wanted a single room to yourself it would cost you up to an additional $100.00 per night. Let me tell you that in my business I know all of the rates of everyone around me and all over the state. The average rate is 40 to 60 bucks a night. Who is making the EXTRA $100.00 a night . Ill tell you its not the hotel owner WHY??? If someone came in to my place and I told them $39.95 but if you are with an outfitter it will cost you $139.95 whats wrong with that picture? Anyway I will continue to promote freelance hunting in my area and will bust my butt trying. If it costs me my business so be it, but I am a firm believer in small business. I will continue to help hunters free of charge to the best of my ability and not change my rates from season to season. There is no room or need for huge commercial operations here.They should stay in retail, our state and businesses can handle the rest just fine.


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## goosehtr4life

David, please get your facts straight, to come here and not have any of the facts, please..and for you to say Sportsmen of No.Dak do not appreciate the land they get to hunt on is moronic to say the least. I have never hunted with anyone that does not appreciate the farmer/land owner when hunting, I can't imagine anyone who does. The old arguement that we all think we all own the land and it is ours to hunt and were trying to keep if for our selves is well, old.

What we are trying to do is plain and simple maintain the quality of hunting we have for the benefit of EVERYONE, residents and non-residents included. Not just the benefit of a few rich people that use guides. Also please don't try and convince me there is better bird hunting anywhere else because I don't believe it. Not on open land/ wild birds.


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## le

I would like to thank all NoDak members for the hard and successful work you all did in getting HB1276 passed. I would also like to thank the g/o's, NDWF, and others who all helped in writting this bill. Corporate commerical hunting is a killer for everyone and we gave the people a law that has a method of limiting corporate predatory practices that has been constitutionally approved by the U.S. Supreme Court. That is not to say that some corporation may try and challenge our new law. But, we can defend it in court with established case law. I think it would be a PR nightmare for any corporation to fight this, but that is up to them. Anyway, you all take care.....Ladd Erickson


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## Bob Kellam

Thanks to you as well Ladd :thumb:

Later
Bob


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## Cuppedwings.

OK I know this has been beat to death but I will keep my opinion short and sweet.

First I am from Manitoba and an outfitter (the second part may not sit well with some of you but you are entitled to your opinions)

Secondly, any sports store involved in outfitting is competing with some if not all of their major customers (outfitters and normal sportsmen alike). I returned from Minneapolis this week with a $400 receipt from Gander Mtn in Bloomington. $216 from Sportsmens warehouse in Fargo and a touch over $2000 from cabela's combined from Owatonna and Grand Forks. At Cabela's in E Grand Forks, I ordered a week in advance and when I showed up to pick up my $1373 order, everyone seemed to know about this "huge order". Obviously this is not all that common at their store this time of year if I was known by name by at least 4 employees that I had never met.

Third, I will not be buying any more items at Gander Mountain, I believe that SW and Cabela's carries more selection anyway. If I support GM too much they may expand into booking Manitoba trips as well. I have some concern with Cabela's booking program being in direct competition with me as well, but at least it is only as a booking agent. GM seems to be taking more of an active role and a larger percentage for so called "free-lance" trips....

My piece is said for now


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## Miller

Anyone see they're statement reports?

http://news.corporate.findlaw.com/prnew ... 71532.html



> The company plans to expand its assortment in marine accessories and boating categories, as well as expand its services with Outdoor Expeditions, offering hunting and fishing vacation packages in the U.S. and Canada.


I don't see them slowing down anytime soon.


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## Bob Kellam

Miller

They may not be slowing down in other states but ND has passed a law that will make it very difficult for them to continue their operation here. The bill is HB 1276. If I am correct ND is one of the first if not the first state to pass legislation that addresses this. I would also like to add that this was a compromise effort that included sportsmen, outfitters, guides and lawmakers.

Bob


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## 4CurlRedleg

For all the folks who don't think they are guiding or leasing land in ND, this flyer was in there stores until recently (2 weeks ago). It was not in the Fargo store, but was all over MN.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/alb ... ic_id=1563

It is as close as I could get, maybe Chris could help me zoom it in. When I am allowed I'll post the front cover.

The photo in the album is a little clearer.


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## Cuppedwings

Yep, I just got the same flyer. The Manitoba Goose hunt is $895 and is 4 days of bed and breakfast and meals, with boat available .... no guiding, no scouting, no set-up, no dogs, no calling, and only minimal decoys they say. So they are charging $225 a day for shared accomodations and food basically? Sounds like guide prices to me (actually higher than most if it is a goose hunt, as that is mornings only up til October 14th in alot of Manitoba).

This also stinks of a borderline illegal operation (why no guides? maybe no outfitting license? Then how can they provide hunting land with the package?)

I stand by my decision to not spend anymore of my dollars at GM. I am ordering $1500 worth of blinds elsewhere this week as well. If they want to compete in my business, they will not be getting my money to do it....

If one had a restaurant in between two insurance companies, would you start your own insurance business and go into competition with 100% of your customers? I think not!

Don't be fooled by the deals they will try and throw at you to win your support back... the $10 you save may take them one step further to tie up another 1000 acre tract.....


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## 4CurlRedleg

Cupped, where did you get the flyer from?


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## Cuppedwings

4CurlRedleg said:


> Cupped, where did you get the flyer from?


4Curl,
I have family in Minneapolis and they picked one up for me there and sent it.... I bet you will not see one in ND for a while after this controversy, but who knows?

They are offering birding hunts in Manitoba (2) ND (1) SD (4) Argentina (2) and some others packages


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## 4CurlRedleg

Cuppedwings said:


> 4CurlRedleg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cupped, where did you get the flyer from?
> 
> 
> 
> 4Curl,
> I have family in Minneapolis and they picked one up for me there and sent it.... I bet you will not see one in ND for a while after this controversy, but who knows?
> 
> They are offering birding hunts in Manitoba (2) ND (1) SD (4) Argentina (2) and some others packages
Click to expand...

Just out of curiousity, What store did it come from and when did they pick it up??


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## Cuppedwings

They said it was at the gander mountain just south of minneapolis on the way to the owatonna cabela's.... I was there last month as well but forget the town and don't have a minnesota map handy. They got it about 2 weeks ago and it was near the store entrance on a stand up display?


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## 4CurlRedleg

Thanx Cupped.

I see only trouble from this outfit for all freelancers.


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## KEN W

The store is just off 35W in Apple Valley.


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## njsimonson

Wow - longest thread in the History of Nodak...any plans to let it go anytime soon???

I've been disappointed enough with the service at GM, and the prices (except for the closing sale in Duluth ), and them pulling the flytying section in November, and now cancelling their bonus points program on their credit card. So you don't have to sell me...I think everyone else realizes they are all about the bottom line now.


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## CarlKilloran

Ok first time posting on Nodak Outdoors............I have also been reading this post and to be honest I have no problem with what Gander Mt or Cabela's is doing. I was born and raised in ND and have hunted and fished since I was 10 or so. The one problem that I have with this post is that all you great sportsman are going to be so affect by this and I ask myself will my hunting be affected by Gander Mt. and the answer that I find is NO it will not.........because I have been building relationships with farmers and landowners since i started hunting. I have land that I can hunt on anytime of the year all over the state and am proud of the friendships and relationships that I have devoloped with land owners. The one thing that I know is that they would never lease there land to anyone so i know that I will always have land to hunt and hopefully so will my children. So what is the real problem with Gander Mt leasing land, is it because most of you whom consider yourselves great outdoorsman have built no relationships with land owners? Is it because you have to drive into yards the nite before hunts and pray that you will be able to hunt on the piece of land that you scouted? That problem can easily be solved but some people refuse to solve it. Leasing land isn't going to stop and to be honest I will continue to shop at Gander Mt. because they have good deals and treat me way better than any other sporting goods store that I have ever been involved with. They are just trying to make money like everyone else and I think that it is none of our business if they want to lease land or not. THERE I SAID IT :******: !!!!!!!!


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## goldhunter470

You say you have been following this post but for some reason you seem to really miss the point. I think everyone here understands that building realationships with land owners is number 1, but some of us just do not have the time or money to travel around the state to build these relationships. If you do good for you, but I personally work 50-60 hours a week, raise 2 kids, and try to keep my wife happy. The real point of this thread is open peoples eyes to the fact that a company that tries to sell us things to enjoy our hobbies, passions, or whatever you call it, is also IN OUR STATE MAKING ACCESS TO THE LAND MORE DIFFICULT!!!!! And if you don't have a problem with this practice, you should have a problem with them denying they are doing this or that they handed out the flyers promoting their hunts everywhere but here!!!!!!! Plain and simple, this may not effect you, but it does effect many others and if you continue to shop at GM you obviously don't care about any of us. Just you!! :******: :******: You also say they are just trying to make money like all of us. What will you do when your landowners are just trying make a buck?


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## CarlKilloran

Goldhunter not everyone sells out to the man some people have dignity and would rather protect that than make money.


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## Burly1

Never say never. I know a landowner who just leased all his hunting to an outfitter, when two years ago he said he would NEVER have anything to do with one. The bottom line is that the money is just too tempting for the average farmer/rancher. Protect and cherish your landowner relationships, but never say never! Burl


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## goldhunter470

Money talks with most people. Do you really feel if push came to shove and "selling out to the man" meant putting food on his familys table, your relationships with these landowners would mean much to him? All I am saying is you may some day end up cutting your own throat if you continue to support GM.


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## bioman

GM just opened their second store in the Denver Metro area. And, Cabelas is planning a store in the northern burbs.


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## goldhunter470

The best thing anyone can do is KEEP SPREADING THE WORD AND DO NOT SHOP THERE!!!!! There are many other places to buy your goods. Keep fighting and spreading the word. I was recently in the emergency room for some stiches, (not so good with knives, appearently!!) and told my nurse what was up. It was the first time she had heard of this, so I directed her here. Her and her family are avid hunters and would be angry if it is true. Thats just one person telling another and them telling another and so on and so on. Dont stop or we will lose this battle!


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## g/o

12


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## always_outdoors

Carl:

Since this is your first post, can it be your last??

Never say never. I have seen more than my fair share of land taken over by some son-in-law or nephew or whatever. I was told too that it wouldn't happen, but everyone is jockeying for land now. It is only going to get worse.


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## Roughrider

Good to see this forum going again.
Carl you must be living in a box. Alot of people don't care much about relationships or neighbors any more. Here is a first hand example. There is a family up here that we have farmed next to for the last 120 years, when they rented out their land this year they forgot about the little guys next to them (us) and leased it to some "big" guy from out of the area. We have always gotten along very well with this family and gave them a helping hand whenever we could. Our bid was only a couple of dollars an acre below the high bid and if our neighbors would have asked we would have matched it. It really stings. 
Money talks and today it talks even louder.


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## Old Hunter

bioman What is the purpose of your last post on this subject? Are you now a spokesman for a large corporation thats violates ND laws and then doesn't have the courage to tell the truth? I am very dissapointed in you.


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## bioman

OH, not sure what your disappointed in :eyeroll:, I guess I am disappointed that you somehow read into some underlying meaning of a simple statement. Go back and reread the post, I simply stated that GM is opening a second store in the Denver Metro Area. Where did I say I support GM???? Simply stated, business sales must be awfully good if you can support two stores within 20 miles of each other.

Lighten up and don't take yourself so seriously :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Old Hunter

bioman You are posting on the number 2 waterfowl site in the world. You tell everyone where GM is building a new store and that their business sales are awfully good. You are touting their laurels weather you realize it or not. :eyeroll:


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## bioman

OH, I highly doubt that I am "touting their laurels." This thread has roughly 30,000 views, of which, a vast majority were accrued by the same number of people revisiting the thread.

As far as you misreading the intent of my posts, I will just say this, you don't know me, so why do you find the need to judge me. I will say that is beyond disappointing, so please feel free to PM and you and I can discuss further.


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## goldhunter470

I don't think it is a suprise to anyone that they are building new stores. I drive by the store in Fargo on any given day and I can see business is good. This is less tauting their laurels and more of an attention getter to all of us.


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## CarlKilloran

I just spent $2000 at GANDER MOUNTAIN-I am sure that they are taking that money and buying land in my very backyard because the money that i spend at GM is the only reason that they are still open, and also I think that everyone on this site should take a step back and see how they deal with ppl. I am sick of you dbags talking about things that you have no clue about, like how farmers will sell out and all this, bottom line is you guys are idiots and should stop talking about farmers because most of you have no clue what a farmer is and how his life is affected by anything so go back to your city life because you don't have to start acting like outdoorsman again for a couple months.


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## djleye

Wow Karl, that Dale Carnegie course really paid off didn't it!!!! :eyeroll:


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## g/o

12


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## Roughrider

Carl, I would like you to come out to our FARM and call me a "dbag" and "idiot" to my face.


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## goldhunter470

WE should take a step back and look at how WE deal with people?!?! Holy cow, did you read what you wrote? Just keep on blindly putting money in their pockets so you can sit in your backyard with your $2000 worth of stuff. WOW! BTW I think most of us are informed enough to talk about what GM is all about.


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## goldhunter470

Roughrider said:


> Carl, I would like you to come out to our FARM and call me a "dbag" and "idiot" to my face.


 :beer:


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## nodakoutdoors.com

No personal attacks gentlemen.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/terms.html

Thanks.


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## Wishbone

As an out of state, out of Country hunter, I would fight for what you have because if don't no one else will. Carol if you think everybody here is just a City slicker, you are walking on thin ice.

Carol how much did gm pay you for your land.


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