# Need some help with my gun



## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

I am having a terrible time keeping my rifle sighted in. I don't think that my rings are moving. I have checked them and they always seem tight. Could something in my scope be bad. I have a Nikon buckmaster scope. It's an average scope. It is on my 22-250. It is a gun that I shoot a fair amount. The scope is about 3 years old.

One thing it is doing is, I will shoot three shots. Two will be fairly close together, but the one will be a good 5-6 inches off. That makes me think something is goofy in my scope.

I am open for any ideas. I'm hoping that i don't have to buy a new scope, but if i do i do. Oh, one more thing, the gun isn't dirty either. I cleaned it not too long ago.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

What kind of stock? If wood, it could have warped a bit and as barrel heats up stock contacts barrel and causes the flier.

What kind of rings and bases?

Do you have an extra scope to try? This would be the quickest, if no fliers with a different scope then there could be something going on inside yours.

Nikons have a very good warranty, they will either repair or replace it if it is bad.

huntin1


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## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

It's a synthetic stock, and i don't know what kind of rings i bought.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I have a Rem 700 in 7MM STW. It is one of those mountain rifle configs. Any way the stock had two little pads of plastic at the end of the stock and that would push up on the barrel. I have yet to see a rifle like that shoot well. I took my dremal and removed them and made the rifle a free floating barrel unit. Now I do not get any odd fliers.

If Chuck Norris were a calendar, every month would be named Chucktober, and every day he'd kick your ***.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Has this set up always been like this or is this recent? As said, trying a different scope would be the first thing to do. At least eliminate that if you can. If the barrel is free floated, try to run piece of paper along the barrel and the stock to see if it hangs up anywhere.

I will refrain from the Nikon comments now> :gag:


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## specialpatrolgroup (Jan 16, 2009)

Put a piece of masking tape on your rings, and one on your scope so they line up, then dras a straight line from your rings onto your scope, shoot, and then you can see if it has moved at all.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

People said:


> I have a Rem 700 in 7MM STW. It is one of those mountain rifle configs. Any way the stock had two little pads of plastic at the end of the stock and that would push up on the barrel. I have yet to see a rifle like that shoot well. I took my dremal and removed them and made the rifle a free floating barrel unit. Now I do not get any odd fliers.


Ditto on the SPS's. Two little plastic "****" near the end of the forearm. I did the same thing, cut them puppies out of there.

Your better off with zero contact, or FULL, consistent contact the length of the barrel channel. Not little protuberances like this.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

I'm not very familiar with the SPS, but what would be their reasoning for this. That just doesn't make sense. I am curious.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

There are a few schools on how a rifle needs to be set up for best accuracy.

One of them is to put upward pressure on the barrel. I do not know why you would want to do that but they do. I am thinking it had something to do with older guns where accuracy was not all that great any way.

I can not think of a single bench rest of high power shooter that would not have a free floated barrel.

MacGyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can roundhouse-kick his head through a wall and take it.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

That's what I don't understand about it. With the advances in production, why move backwards to that type of construction. At first it made me wonder if they had tested it and found it to be more accurate. But with the experience that you and barebackjack have had I can't see that it could be true. Thanks for the info.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

Those pads on Remington synthetic stocks are there because the stock is pretty flimsy. I think Remington figured that by putting those pads up front, it would keep the whole forearm from flexing and making the barrel contact in more than just that one place on the barrel.

FWIW, I have a Remginton 700 with the sps stock and had the same problem. Some groups would shoot 3 or 4 fairly close to each other and then throw 1 or 2 way off, and other times it would just be a 3 or 4 inch group. I bought a B&C Medalist stock, swapped the stocks out, did a little sanding to make everything fit right, and the flyers went away and my groups shrank a lot. I actually shot a .480" 5 shot group at 115yds with it last week.

I do agree that you should check the bases and rings to start with. I might even take everything off and clean up under the base, then put the base back on using some blue locktite on the screws. Then remount the scope and rings and give it a try again. Or beings you already have the scope off, see if you can borrow one and try it out.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

People said:


> There are a few schools on how a rifle needs to be set up for best accuracy.
> 
> One of them is to put upward pressure on the barrel. I do not know why you would want to do that but they do. I am thinking it had something to do with older guns where accuracy was not all that great any way.
> 
> I can not think of a single bench rest of high power shooter that would not have a free floated barrel.


Not just older rifles. In the 80's I had a Winchester M70 Winlite in 300WM. The stock was synthetic and was made by McMillan, good solid stock. The rifle would not shoot a group, they were all over the place.

Plainsman and I got the thing to shoot with upward pressure at the end of the forearm. With the right amount of pressure the rifle grouped 3/4" at 100 yards consistantly. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it's the only thing that does.

Back to the OP, if there is no contact with the stock, I'd first try a different scope, then different mounts. Eliminate all possibilities and if nothing else works you may have to try the upward pressure on the barrel.

huntin1


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'll place my bet on the scope. I sent a Leupold MarkIV in three times and at last they sent me a new scope. I was getting two groups one a couple inches above the other. Dropped in a 30 year old $30 Bushnell Sportview and bingo 1/3 inch group. I sent both targets to Leupold and got a new scope. No matter how much you pay or what brand you get a lousy scope comes up once in a while.



> I will refrain from the Nikon comments now> :gag:


So huntin1 got any ideas how we get even with Longshot?  I suppose when he isn't watching we could loosen up the rings on his Zeiss and Leicas.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

huntin1 said:


> Plainsman and I got the thing to shoot with upward pressure at the end of the forearm. With the right amount of pressure the rifle grouped 3/4" at 100 yards consistantly. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it's the only thing that does.


So how did you get, and maintain consistent pressure at this point?

I would think that would be difficult what with dealing with recoil and such.


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## StretchNM (Dec 22, 2008)

If you take the bases and rings off as suggested to start from scratch, take the time to align and lapp the rings. If the alignment is far enough off, I'd worry that maybe the ring torque will affect the tube and distort the scopes accuracy.

I'm inclined to think something else first, though. How do you begin at the range? With a clean rifle then 3 shots? Which round is the flier? Do you then clean and take another 3 shots? Has someone else shot the rifle, with the same ammo and under the same conditions?

I always think to start with another shooter, shooting right before or right after you, under all the same conditions. Then, go from there. Although I always start with a clean rifle, I don;t clean it until I'm finished for the day (though I have taken a swab after 15 or twenty rounds, but then I expect the first and maybe second round may be a tad off). Also, if your scope is a variable power, set it on one setting and leave it there until you figure out what the problem is. For example, with a 3-9x40, say, set it on 9x and do all your shooting without adjusting or otherwise messing with the scope.....just to eliminate that particular variable.

I'm not very well informed or experienced with the stock-to-barrel contact and free-floating everything, but I believe what I read about it.

I'd check those things first and save the scope idea for last.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

barebackjack said:


> huntin1 said:
> 
> 
> > Plainsman and I got the thing to shoot with upward pressure at the end of the forearm. With the right amount of pressure the rifle grouped 3/4" at 100 yards consistantly. It doesn't always work, but sometimes it's the only thing that does.
> ...


We determined how much material neededto be there and glass bedded the last 1 1/2" of the forearm. Took some trial and error getting the thickness correct. It is work and takes time.

huntin1


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

My experience with scopes, once thier bad they don't go back to zero. If this is a situation that repeats itself everytime you shoot, I doubt it would be a scope. If you are shooting factory ammo, check with the company to make sure they didn't have a bad batch. If your reloading scale every round and see if it helps.

I lean towards the heat build up. If something was loose it probably wouldn't group the first couple shots, then go wild, it would be wild the whole time.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Plainsman said:


> I'll place my bet on the scope. I sent a Leupold MarkIV in three times and at last they sent me a new scope. I was getting two groups one a couple inches above the other. Dropped in a 30 year old $30 Bushnell Sportview and bingo 1/3 inch group. I sent both targets to Leupold and got a new scope. No matter how much you pay or what brand you get a lousy scope comes up once in a while.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, sometime you distract him and I'll loosen the rings. Maybe even put a few inches of left windage on it just to really confuse him. 

:beer:

huntin1


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## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

Thanks for the help guys.

I was shooting at 100yards. I really don't think that it was me, but i guess anything is possible.

I checked my rings, they seem to be fine. My gun and scope have a custom paint job. If my rings were loose and allowing my scope to move i would see it in the paint.

I called Nikon, I have a lifetime warranty on that scope. If i send it in i will get it back in about 7 days. My problem is I'm going coyote hunting on Sunday with Fallguy. As much as I hate it,I will probably end up taking my scope off of my 270 and putting it on my 22-250.

Thanks again for the help guys.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

I've had to steal a scope from another rifle before, it sucks, but then looking on the bright side, it gets you out shooting more. 

I now have an extra scope sitting in a box that I can use if something like this happens.

Good luck in your hunt, and with the scope issue. I've got 4 Nikon scopes, and I have not had to use their warranty yet. I have heard that their CS is top notch.

And despite what Longshot says, Nikon makes a good scope. There are better ones, but they cost a lot more.

huntin1


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