# Batpro's Post in the Migration Reports



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Batpro put this in the migration repots. I figured I would copy it and start a new thread since it probably will get deleted out of the reports section. I have to say I pretty much agree:



batpro said:


> I have been reading several reports lately on here.
> 
> I am a wildlife biologist in the Midwest. I have spent many years working in the Dakota's on waterfowl research and have hunted since I was 12.
> 
> ...


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## wisconsingoosehunter (Feb 13, 2006)

I replied to him as a PM, but since you started a thread, i'll add my $0.02 here. I have never understood the deroggatory comments about the geese, as I think they are actually a very beautiful bird. I got one mounted a couple years ago, and I love it. But as I told batpro, you can't make statements judging the entire community, or "most of you" on here as being unethical hunters. I'd say that the vast majority are not. And it irritates me that someone generalize like that. Sorry batpro, I don't mean to sound like an A$$ because we are both on the same side here, but please don't generalize.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

kill them sob's (snows or blues) to the sensitive crowd. So another thread where someone is trying to push their ethics on other people, just what the world needs is one more perfect hunter. I have killed every kind of goose every legal way you can and I enjoyed every minute of the experiences I have had, sure some ways are more relaxing than others but a good workout never hurt anyone either. Stop worrying about other folks and hunt to the best of your ability is my answer to all these ethics pushers.


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## wisconsingoosehunter (Feb 13, 2006)

Well said, buckseye! Reading the same thing over and over again gets boring!


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Well said Buckseye.....

"Do you guys really feel proud of yourselves after you shoot into a flock on the ground? Do you really feel good about yourselves when geese are flying way wounded, feet hanging down? Everywhere I go in the spring, I find wounded geese everywhere."

Batpro......I agree that shooting over decoys is more fun....but I have seen many birds leave the decoys crippled with legs hanging.It doesn't just happen to jump shooters.

Plus from what I've heard.....the Dept. of Interior wants the birds harrassed as much as possible to get them to the tundra with low fat reserves.Smaller clutches....lower population.


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## TWEET SD (May 11, 2005)

KEN W said:


> Plus from what I've heard.....the Dept. of Interior wants the birds harrassed as much as possible to get them to the tundra with low fat reserves.Smaller clutches....lower population.


That seems like something I don't want hunters hearing. Fine if that's what they (Dept Inter) want but actually stating that you want the birds harrassed seems like it will ruin the sport. To me, I think that when people hear this it will give them even more excuses to do whatever it takes to get those shots in the air. I'm a rookie in this sport but I hate where it's going. Hearing stories of what it was like just a few years ago compared to what it is now...sickens me.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Sorry if I'm calling a spade ....a spade.It is what it is.

I was told that low fat reserves would lower the population more than extending the season after March 9 does.


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## Ryan_Todd (Apr 11, 2004)

i too pretty much aggree with what batpro stated but i too don't like the generalizations. personally i much rather shoot 10 over decoys than 100 on a jump. too me i enjoy the way birds work into a spread and knowing i fooled them rather than just killing a bunch of birds.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

I just wonder what happens to all the birds that these guys ground swat. I mean when your killing a couple hundred a week you can't tell me one guy or family is eating them. I guess if you got the $$$ to have them made in to everything possible but you add their ducks and geese, deer, elk, antelope, pheasants, rabbits, grouse and fish from the rest of the season there must be some real big fat azzes out there. :lol:

It just seems like it has become a #s game. Hey I shot a 100 today and then somebody posts they shot 200 and then the game is on. Who can kill the most. I wish the F&G or Feds or who ever would keep an accurate count of how many birds are really being killed during the spring. The HIP is a joke. It stops at a 11 or more. Not sure how they could track it but I am sure there is a way.


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## wisconsingoosehunter (Feb 13, 2006)

PC, I believe you're supposed to call in your geese with the # killed. I think this is how they keep track. But how many people actually DO that, I don't know!


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

I know in WI your suppose to call in honkers aren't you? I know I did when I hunted there but I have not heard such a thing for snows. Does anyone know for sure?? I know I would call.


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## drjongy (Oct 13, 2003)

TWEET SD said:


> That seems like something I don't want hunters hearing. Fine if that's what they (Dept Inter) want but actually stating that you want the birds harrassed seems like it will ruin the sport. To me, I think that when people hear this it will give them even more excuses to do whatever it takes to get those shots in the air.


That's all we need...the government keeping more information from us to protect us from ourselves. :eyeroll:

If you break the law it is nobodys fault but your own. Don't try to make the argument that factual information is going to force somebody to ignore the law. That is nothing but an excuse to take responsibility away from the offending party.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Got the below from another thread on this site. I would be more than happy with 30 birds let alone 42. But the below just verifies what I am saying:


Shu said:


> fowlplay26 said:
> 
> 
> > Saturday afternoon we shot 25 snows. One had a black and white neck collar. The next day we shot 42 and a white neck collar on a Ross. What a weekend; *not huge numbers but enough to keep hunting*.


_Nice job FP. I don't mean to bust your chops, but are we getting to a point where 42 birds is not much and barely enough to keep hunting?_?[/quote


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## wisconsingoosehunter (Feb 13, 2006)

Sorry PC. I just read through the regulations and I guess you don't have to call them in in SD. I am getting confused with Canadas in WI. Pretty new at this game and it's still a bit confusing!!


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## jd mn/nd (Apr 8, 2004)

Hey p.c. are you refering to my fat azz with your prior post or just that there is no way in heck for any one to possibly be able to process and do good constructive things with that many birds? Just thought I would check in with ya on that one!! Also could you give me some G.P.S. Coordinates for some spring goose hunting you know like where the X is ?

Later J.D.


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## goose nuker (Feb 28, 2005)

I too am guilty of jump shooting, the most I have shot in a jump is 5, just because of the fact that I am not comfortable with laying three shells into a flock of "birds". We all know how many different species are migrating this time of year. I like to get them up first before I shoot to make sure that there aren't any other species close...especially the ducks that you cannot see because of the size difference. Like I said I have jump shot birds, but nothing compares the feeling you get when you fool them into the decoys. Even if it is only 2 birds. That was how many we fooled last year. There were probably 4 different groups of jump shooters and they just followed them from field to field all day long. It gets dissapointing when you think you have the spot only to have the birds scared off. On the other hand it is the conservation season, and the other hunters have the right to chose which way they prefer to hunt them, its just not my way. Nice to read everyones posts and glad to hear I'm not the only one that is disgusted when you hear guys "ground swatted" a hundred birds. Good luck to everyone this year. Matt.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Do what's legal and what you enjoy.

Ethics is a tough thing to debate b/c everyone has a different set of ethics.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

What people have stated is why the spring season is popular......

Example: unplugged guns, no limit, ecallers.....shoot, shoot,shoot, kill, kill, kill......

This spring season is all about numbers and that what attracks people. I know people who do not hunt waterfowl in the fall but hunt the spring season....only reason why is they can Kill large amounts of birds.

It is sad, but the truth.

So if you want all of the jump shooting, ground swatting, number game bs, you need to set a limit. But the Dept of Interior does not want that because they need the numbers of the birds dropped to save the tundra....it is a catch 22.

But I agree a day in the feild, laying in dec's and only harvesting 1 bird is a great sucess to me....because I am out there doing it and not at work!!!


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

I think the demographic on this web site has changed tremendously in the last year. Used to be a bunch of guys who were dedicated hunters and enjoyed the chase and methods more than the killing.

What are the four stages of the evolution of the hunter again?

Judging from the lack of maturity of some posters (and these are the ones who have to contribute to *every* forum wether or not they have any relevant experience and knowledge in the subject), I would say these guys are in the first stage...."the gotta have it, gotta kill em all, no matter how" stage. They need to sound off about how many they killed and brag about their "methods" because it validates their existence. We've all been there.


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## onlyspringersguy (Oct 6, 2005)

There will be peace in the mid-east before this discussion ends. Everyone has there own way of hunting, depending on time health or financial circumstances. The most important thing is that people are hunting and hopefully using common sense, common courtesy, and a conscience. To me those three things make-up your ethics. I prefer to jump or pass shoot depending on wether I'm alone or hunting with a buddy. I also have common sense to leave well enough alone if I see someone set-up or on a stalk of ther own, I wish more people would. That is why I usually only hunt during the week, to avoid the tourists. Alot of people don't have the means or the know how to set up a productive spread, I know I don't, but it sounds great, and I won't rip them for doing it. I too wonder what happens to the birds when people claim to kill 200 in a day. Wanton waste is a violation in N.D. last time I checked. I agree with the individual that says you have to get the birds up before shooting, how else are you going to identify whats there, not to mention shooting them on the ground is killing, not hunting. Use the sense that God gave your dog and we all should find a hunt to keep us happy.


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

I AGREE THAT THE STATUS OF THESE BIRDS HAS BEEN LOWERED TO THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL. WE ALL KNOW THAT MANY BIRDS ARE BEING THROWN AWAY. WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE??????


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

JD,

I was not referring to you but now that you mention it. :lol: Just kidding. No what I was getting at is that is a lot of food to eat. Its no secret I kill some birds and with my wife, 2 of my kids, and myself eating it, it still takes some time to get through it. I even give some to relatives. That is why I really have to control myself with this spring season. Yes it would be great to shoot 400 one day but then I would be eating 1.089724 geese a day. GPS coordinates are on the way. Oh I may add that little *********** Dusty05 can eat him some geese and he is all of 120 pounds. I don't know where he puts it but I suspect he goes through a lot of toilet paper.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

tumblebuck said:


> What are the four stages of the evolution of the hunter again?


http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/hunter-stages.php


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

five stages...dang it!!!

I was going to say five initially.


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## Ty (Mar 11, 2004)

I really dont understand it.

My buddies have even gotten into wanting to pound them on the ground. I really dont understand. They even want to blast them off their roost.

They really dont have a clue as what it does to the birds that will "mini" stage in this area. After they tried it the other day I was driving down the highway only to see them headed north. They dont come back to that.

People even find their wounded ones on the roost later on that they couldnt find.

Who wants that many dead geese anyhow? We usually end up with so many at the end of the season that we arent at a lack of dead snows anyway. HEHE

Ill stick to my guns and enjoy a day laying on my back in the field watching the skys over any slaughterfest.

Problem is when they get pounded off the roost whats a guy to do? They dont hang around here and then your only hope is too traffic migrators and we all know that isnt as easy as it used to be.

DOWN TO THE GROUND POUNDERS!


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## goodfellow56 (Mar 3, 2005)

I ground pounded 1 million birds yesterday, guess i win the numbers game.

Dont you people ever get tired of *****ing and moaning about what everyone else is doing wrong. man this gets old every year. you also give the season a bad wrap because you are complaining about hunting. I get so tired of hearing this every year. the truth is there is probably not one person out there that has never broken the law or done something they shouldnt.

And to those of you that are turning people in for stupid things like shooting a wounded bird on land without permission. what is more ethical to look at the bird standing 40 yds off the road crippled and flapping or to take your gun out and shoot it. YOu people have no common sense. If someone is seriously breaking the law turn them in, but if they are doing something ethical like shooting cripples, dont turn them in or you become the *******.

You people also make it sound like groundpounding and flock shooting is easy. Have you ever tried crawling up on a flock of 40,000 eyes lookign around and getting close enough to kill them. You also have to keep in mind not everyone can afford decoys and the point of the season is to take the numbers of geese down so that they dont have to be killed by govt officials on the tundra. If everyone strictly decoyed first of all there would be way more competition to get the good decoy fields and not enough geese would be shot. Take the season for what it is, a chance for us hardcore waterfowlers to get to pull the trigger a few more times before fall. be thankful you are giving the opportunity because it may not last forever, and let each person do whatever it is that they enjoy as long as it is done legally.

and most importantly STOP COMPLAINING AND START HUNTING


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## goodfellow56 (Mar 3, 2005)

i suppose you guys doing all the complaining are the guys that flip off other hunters when you drive past. from the sound of it you sure dont appreciate them. i think ive seen the finger as many times this year as i have a waive. what happened to common curtosey and common sense. we as hunters have a duty to uphold our sport and give it a good name. you dont drive by other hunters and flip them off. only 6% of the nation hunts, and if we as a group are not on the same side and dont unite than we may start to lose some of our priveleges. 
and honestly what can be smarter than driving by 4 guys with loaded shotguns and flipping them the bird.


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## FlashBoomSplash (Aug 26, 2005)

goodfellow56

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh your crying


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## Commando (Jan 13, 2006)

Whoever it was that's on this forum that gave goodfellow56 the finger needs to say your sorry right now.

I understand how frustrating it can be to have your hunt "ruined" by other people scaring off "your" birds but that's part of the game. If they have permission to be there and they are respecting the laws then I don't think you have a leg to stand on. You can try to persuade them not to ground pound them and tell them that decoying is the only real way to do it but there's nothing in the rules that says that's so. If you really want to get some more followers why not invite some of the ground pounding crowd without dekes to sit with you for a day in your spread? Show them how cool it is to have that tornado above your heads and shoot 'em in the lips with their feet in your face. There was some saying that involved ants and vinegar that seems like it might apply here. Don't try to get them to switch tactics by bullying and bashing but instead show them a little hospitality and invite them along. Who knows, you just may be able to work together and get some new hunting buddies along the way. I know that I would have had to resort to ground pounding until I got a chance to go with someone from this site who already knew the decoy game. It's been a great help and we've shot a few birds together on more than one occassion and probably will for many years to come.

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?!?!?


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## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

If you are getting "flipped off more times that you are being waved at" , that should really be a clue.


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## scissorbill (Sep 14, 2003)

I have said it before and I will say it again,this so called conservation order spring snow goose season is a joke. For all the reasons previously mentioned I find this to be a very sad commentary on the state of present day waterfowl hunters.This site has degenerated tremendously and as a previous poster stated alot of these young guys have no respect for the game and it is truly sad.the whole face of conservatin is changing and not for the better, as majestic intellegent birds such as the snow goose is reduced to vermin status much like the Minnesota DNR views whitetail deer. .


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## hunterboy (Dec 5, 2004)

Strange how some here feel it is o.k. to shoot them over water this time of year but rip on the non-res for shooting over water in the fall!!


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## goose nuker (Feb 28, 2005)

This isn't a res./ non-res debate, we've done that enough. We're talking about snow goose hunting "ethics," which I agree has degraded all waterfowlers no matter how they hunt. A friend of mine was in sodak last weekend and said there were thousands and thousands of birds and as soon as they found a feed field ten trucks would pull up and start they're sneek. Makes it hard for guys trying to decoy the birds and keep it "hunting". Yes I'm still b&tchin'... thanks for listening. Matt.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

when in rome do as the romans do


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## chris lillehoff (Jan 9, 2006)

save the tundra....what ever gets the job done.


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## Chris Schulz (Sep 7, 2004)

Rabble...Rabble....Rable.....Whoever thinks jump shooting snow geese is unethical is a fricken idiot.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Chris Schulz said:


> Rabble...Rabble....Rable.....Whoever thinks jump shooting snow geese is unethical is a fricken idiot.


Then alot of the people who hunt them alot must be idiots. :eyeroll:


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## Ryan_Todd (Apr 11, 2004)

totally agreed. :withstupid:


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## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

We used to jump them all the time and never even thought about decoying, because we really didn't know how.

I'd rather hunt them over dekes, but I'll shoot them by stalking as well. I know I cripple a few, not doubt about it. But we hear guys taking 40-60 yard shots in the dekes as well and doing it often. You can't tell me that doesn't cripple a few either.

Hunting over dekes is awesome, so is have 20,000 snow geese erupt right in front of you as well. The noise they make and then the sudden quietness after shots is just a really neat thing.

I'm not for killing those *%&$*# (I hate it when people call them that as well), I'm in it for an enjoyable experience with family and friends, and we always hunt within the laws and regs.

Doing both is fine with me - and I agree with Ken W about having them harassed for bigger purposes. That sounds cruel, but in the long run it's going to save more geese!

To each their own, just be smart about it and don't ruin a hunt for a guy when he's right in the middle of it!

We could debate all day on this!


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Goosepride said:


> We could debate all day on this!


There will never be an end to this debate....

Hunt how you want to. A guy might not like guys jumping but you're not going to stop them. Just learn to deal with it and setup away from the rush.


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## goosebusters (Jan 12, 2006)

I have a question about the five stages of hunting. Where do people who hunt just for food lie? I know that is the only reason I deer hunt. I have done it for a long time and it just doesn't get my blood flowing, but I can't figure out a better way to get a supply of venison. Not trying to start anything. I just wanted to know what stage I was in for every kind of game I hunt.


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## Madison (Mar 1, 2002)

Chris Schulz said:


> Rabble...Rabble....Rable.....Whoever thinks jump shooting snow geese is unethical is a fricken idiot.


Schulz-

I thought you were strictly a decoy man??? Your from MN, you know what jump shooters do to the birds....


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## Chris Schulz (Sep 7, 2004)

Madison said:


> Chris Schulz said:
> 
> 
> > Rabble...Rabble....Rable.....Whoever thinks jump shooting snow geese is unethical is a fricken idiot.
> ...


I'm from Minnesota yes and I love to lay in the Dekes......But, There are alwasys those blue sky lolly pop day's where the birds just wont commit. (Snow geese that is) Then it's time to go mobile. I just hate how everyone says that screws up hunts and crap like that. Yeah it may screw up your hunt and made someone elses better, but isnt the point of this season to Lower the population?


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## goodfellow56 (Mar 3, 2005)

tear um up chris. I hunted wiht your buddies from t.i.t.s a few weekends ago and we killed birds by jumping, pass shooting, and decoying. For those of you people that havent realized snow geese MIGRATE almost daily, provided the weather is decent. so even if a roost is busted up on one day, there is a good chance those birds would have left and flown north the next day anyway, meaning they wouldnt have been there. Ducks and geese in teh fall hang around areas for much longer periods of time and then busting a roost is stupid. but in the spring it is not because new birds will be fillin in anyway.

I think the fact is that you have no respect for the young, thats what ive experienced. try leading by example, maybe your generation has done a poor job of passing on ethics. Have you ever read, aldo leaopolds books on land ethics. - like a Sand county almanac 
doubt it
guess what i have and i know many other young that have a passion for the outdoors and treat the land and the wildlife ethically. Age has no effect on respect. age should bring wisdom but to some that will never come. 
IF an employee isnt trained into a job, can the boss ***** at him for not knowing how to do it. well i guess he can, but in my book that makes the boss both a poor boss and an ***
ThINK ABOUT IT


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## Madison (Mar 1, 2002)

goodfellow56 said:


> For those of you people that havent realized snow geese MIGRATE almost daily, provided the weather is decent.
> 
> to those of you that say young people have no respect for the land and wildlife id liek to say screw you.
> 
> ...


First of all I have hung out with THE schulz, so its safe to assume that Schulz knows that I am giving him crap. CHILL >>.

I wasnt really gonna post up again on this thread, but your whole mentality of not educating the young, disrespecting the young, poor job on passing ethics, Not having a passion for the outdoors, blah blah blah blah!......

Trust me dude I know how to hunt, scout, find birds, ask for permission (even if its not posted) and everything there is (i.e. decoy) possibly to do ethically as possible..

And this whole "lead by example" thing, I am part of the generation who is all for ethical, not keep and shoot EVERYTHING you see hunting metallity.. Which is why am probaly more of "fair chase" hunter than you by trying to master the art of decoying, master the art of concealment in a field, doing my scouting, and list can go on.

Yeah I could go out and ditch bang and ditch whore and post up pictures of me and the "t.i.t.s" crew (lilly is the man):lol: with a azz pile of birds but to me thats "killing" and not "hunting"....


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

> Ducks and geese in teh fall hang around areas for much longer periods of time and then busting a roost is stupid. but in the spring it is not because new birds will be fillin in anyway.


Holy smokes thanks for that scientific break through..... :roll:

What about when there are over 600,00 sitting on a roost in the spring when it is on the leading edge of the migration? Do you still try busting them off of it because a boned headed group of punks want to kill 4 birds? Think before you type.

Goodfellow56, you better go out and ditch whore acouple more birds.. Then you wont have the energy to type anything again for a week..


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Gee I tell people they are dense because they can't read the 100 posts saying the report forum is for that...reports and the great Mods edit my post. But Goodfellow tells everyone to screw off and it stays. :eyeroll:


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## goodfellow56 (Mar 3, 2005)

porchop i wasnt even talking to you, but thanks for your input. And its nice to hear you are better than me. and if you think ive never shot birds in decoys you might want to think again. i was refering to scissorbills comment on as previously stated the young have no respect.


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## f.o.s. lover (Sep 27, 2004)

here's the facts you need on this subject boys, this is a conservation season, meaning the goal is to harvest as many geese as possible. In order to accomplish this goal sneaking has to be done, there simply are not enough quality hunters, to do it with snow geese! Oh wait you say I am a quality hunter, well ask yourslef this question, do you set up strickly for snows in the fall on a consistant basis, if you don't, you then you like the consistancy of mallards and canadas, if you do then you truly love the challenge of decoying the most intelligent game bird on the planet. I was in SD two weeks ago and almost nobody obeyed any trespass laws, and noboday seemed to care, as soon as a goose foot touched the ground, the doors on the truck opened and a sneak was on. Decoying birds was simply impossible unless you just went out and setup, which in my opinion leaves half of the hunting (scouting) out of the picture, which is what I enjoy most. However, I completely understand how some enjoy jumping birds, but the problem is they brag about the numbers they killed, and thats what there in it for, they could care less that they are trying to stop a species from overpopulating, they are just happy they get to shoot at something legally in march. In closing not everyone has the oppurtunity to become a serious quality hunter, that will always be the case, but only the serious hunters take vacation to chase snows, and thats exactly what you have to do if you want to decoy, show up sunday night and scout hunt monday-friday.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

No personal attacks!


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