# Draw your own conclusions - lion or not



## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

This colt was found in the wrong pen last Wednesday morning. Gashes on the left side of the neck, scrapes on the right side of the neck. Scrapes down the left side.

My immediate gut reaction tells me this is definitely a cat. Their dog wouldn't quit barking most of the night (Tuesday) and it is not a barker. Their indoor/outdoor cat wouldn't go outside either.

It took Game and Fish 5 days to respond to the owner's inquiry. Of course, G&F's position was that it was wire.

They also took the pictures to a reputable vet in the area, the vet immediately said that she believed it was a cat attack.

I am not of the camp that believes all the BS stories about G&F hauling these things in from the Western part of the state, but they are NOT handling these claims the right way. People are starting to not tell G&F of their sightings/encounter because they are treated like someone reporting a UFO.

I guess, maybe it's another juniper bush attack where the horse just keeps backing in to it for fun....

Here are just a couple pics (the purple coloring is just a spray they put on the colt to help with healing.)


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Again, what do you want the GNF to do? So what if it is a lion, will it make you feel better if they say it is a lion attack?

I guess I just don't understand what you want them to do about it. There is a hunting season for them, why don't you kill the cat yourself?


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Like I said in my original post:



> but they are NOT handling these claims the right way.


What i want is for G&F to quit treating people the way they do when they call something in. Until you've called one of these types of calls in yourself you will not know how they are treated.

I don't want G&F to call everything an attack - especially when they are not, but, they don't need to be a$$es about it.

Anyone can look at those pictures and think cat - especially when there NO wire laying around or around the horse that could've cause what they are saying is a wire injury. Even if it wasn't a cat, these people, along with others who have called in very likely cat attacks are treated like they are FREAKS!

And YES! If it was a lion, it would make feel a helluva lot better that they'd be able to A) identify one and B) to put to rest the conspiracy theories.

Did I say I wanted them to kill it? Yes, I would love to have a chance at one, just like 90% of the guys on this site would.


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Why even call it in? Why do you need someone from GNF to tell you what happened to your horse? :huh:

If you think it was a cat then start hunting. :sniper:

Maybe it was aliens, I think you can kill them too, have at it! :lol:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

To be clear...

Lvn2Hunt are you looking for compensation from them? Or are you simply looking for them to say "OK thanks. We'll fill out a report noting the attack occurred."

If they did simply say, tell us the name, time and location.... would that be sufficient?

I think everyone agrees in all of North Dakota that there are 20-40 cats running around at any given moment.

Are you looking for more? I guess I'm confused too...

Thanks! 

Ryan


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

R y a n said:


> To be clear...
> 
> Lvn2Hunt are you looking for compensation from them? Or are you simply looking for them to say "OK thanks. We'll fill out a report noting the attack occurred."
> 
> ...


R Y A N

I am guessing it is more like 200-400 cats!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

hunt4P&Y said:


> R Y A N
> 
> I am guessing it is more like 200-400 cats!


I think they announced some likely continuous population estimate at one time. I can't remember what it was?

I don't think it was near as high as 200. We'd be having dozens more reports every week from livestock raids...

Anyone?


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

It would be interesting to see the numbers, but then again..... how would they come up with them? ND is a big state and they have been seen all over the place! I think it is just a matter of time before we are shooting several cats per week.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

I guess it's difficult for anyone who hasn't called the events in to understand what I'm getting at, let me try a different way.....

You are a landowner and you believe someone has trespassed and may have or may have not taken game off of your land. You call the Game and Fish and/or the sheriff, whatever your choice.

You call and tell them what happened and without coming out to take a look at any damage or asking any questions, they laugh at you and say, "Nope, couldn't have been a trespasser because they never do this or they always do that." "Definitely not someone, probably just the wind cause that's what the wind does."

How mad would that make you? I would at least expect them to follow up with an investigation or something.... Heck, is asking a few questions out of the question?

While I understand there is not enough time or money to track down every single claim - I'd guess they are getting that many. But, they are always saying that so much is unknown about these cats and that's one of the most important things with the hunting season is to learn about them from necropsy's, etc. Well, if so much is unknown, then how can they write off an attack if they don't explore it? And what if things they could be learning are going unlearned because they aren't following up on any of the claims?

When you are having livestock and pets - as these horses are - being attacked or chased around by these animals you will realize how heart breaking it is. I have had 5 4-Hers whose horses we KNOW were attacked by lions, not 1 has the G&F followed up on.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

If you call out to report a cat to G&F, they make it seem like it's more like 2-4 and they are all out west. Not in Bismarck or the surrounding areas.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I agree it would really make me mad.

I think if you take the time to call in they should at least just be upfront and say, well it may have been, but we don't have the man power right now to come out and check... I would much rather hear that then being called stupid... in a sense over the phone.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> If you call out to report a cat to G&F, they make it seem like it's more like 2-4 and they are all out west. Not in Bismarck or the surrounding areas.


I agree. Talked the the warden two weekends ago while out west, he asked why I had my pistol with bowhunting. I said so I can kill a cat, and for protection. He goes. AHhh there isn't any cats around, you shoulden't carry that. I replyed I am going to carry it, I have had cat tracks over mine in the mud. Not a good feeling.

I later got him to admit that there was a fair share of sightings in that area.

I would not be suprised if we had a cat strole into Fargo. They are here. Just a matter of time.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> If you call out to report a cat to G&F, they make it seem like it's more like 2-4 and they are all out west. Not in Bismarck or the surrounding areas.


So you simply want them to acknowledge that there are cats in the Bismarck area.

I think they have acknowledged it.

But what next? I personally don't believe they have any investigative curiousity to run out to every call. An attack is an attack.

In the beginning I think they wanted to see if they were from cats, because North Dakota had 0 cats to everyone's knowledge.

It is a much different world now. Everyone acknowledges their existence. No more proof is needed. point taken.

So now what is next?

I think the issue is being beaten to death and drug thru the ringer.... noone is surprised anymore by another cat attack.

Correct? Is anyone surprised anymore? Why the need to investigate? North Dakota has a healthy reproducing number of cats. Some of them are even collared to follow whilst alive. Documenting attacks doesn't serve any further purpose except to note the time and location.

or so it seems to me? :huh:


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

The more and more people I talk to the more that people are saying that wardens are tying to make it seems as though there aren't as many cats out there as there really are.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> The more and more people I talk to the more that people are saying that wardens are tying to make it seems as though there aren't as many cats out there as there really are.


I agree, but I think that is because they are getting heat on this issue. I don't think it was anything they did.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

HUNTNFISHND said:


> Maybe it was aliens, I think you can kill them too, have at it! :lol:


That is only out by Steel I think and you have to get a permit too...or a fat pig staked out in the middle of the field...something like that anyways...


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

R Y A N, no, i guess I don't agree with you on a couple points and I think you've missed mine. But that's fine....

So, just because there are known burglaries, trespassers, vandals, etc out there, we should not call those in to the respective authorities.

What about all of the farmers that call about crop depredation due to wildlife - are they supposed to be ignored too. They're not.

And no, I don't agree that everyone realizes there are lions in there area. I have yet to hear any of the wardens around this area admit to any lion any further east than New Salem.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> R Y A N, no, i guess I don't agree with you on a couple points and I think you've missed mine. But that's fine....
> 
> So, just because there are known burglaries, trespassers, vandals, etc out there, we should not call those in to the respective authorities.
> 
> ...


There is one on a Dash Cam East of Grand Forks...

If you see it you can shoot it. The only reason you have to call for Depridation is to get a permit to kill them, unless you see something doing it then :sniper: , but a cat is in season, so there is no need for there permission.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Hunt4P&Y > as I said: "In this area" not East of Grand Forks.

And you have all missed my point totally. :eyeroll: Wow, tough crowd around here today. And I know from past threads that it's only going to get worse.... I guess, bring it on, I'll keep defending my position on this. Was just posting up a few pictures to draw your own conclusions. Talk about a completely unintended change of direction on a thread.

I can definitely tell that none of you that have responded has cattle or horses.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

For those who are asking why to even call in a sighting (other than it may prevent another attack or injury):

From the Game and Fish web site:
REPORT LION ENCOUNTERS
To report a sighting, an encounter or an attack, contact one of the North Dakota Game and Fish offices listed below. For after-hours emergencies, contact your local sheriff's department or state radio at 800-472-2121.

* Bismarck: 100 N. Bismarck Expressway, Bismarck, ND 58501 - 701 328-6300.
* Devils Lake: 7928 45th St. NE, Devils Lake, ND 58301- (701) 662-3617.
* Dickinson: 225 30th Ave. SW. Dickinson, ND 58601 - (701) 227-7431.
* Lonetree (Harvey) WMA: 1851 23rd Ave. NE, Harvey, ND 58341 - (701) 324-2211.
* Riverdale: 406 Dakota Ave.. Riverdale, ND 58565 - (701) 654-7475.
* Jamestown: 3320 E Lakeside Rd., Jamestown, ND 58402 - (701) 253-6480.
* Williston: 13932 W. Front St., Williston, ND 58801 - (701) 774-4320.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I said I thought it was a lion attack, and I have actaully taken animals in Northern Minn that was killing cows. So yes I have delt with it. I guess I don't fully see what you are saying.

You just want us to say the Wardens are big meany heads for not coming out?


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Sorry Hunt4P&Y, must have missed where you must have said that.

:lol: No, I'm not going for you to say that they are being meany heads, but, I'm being chastised for being upset at people being treated unfairly. And, I'm being pointed at and laughed at for actually calling in a potential attack like that is something stupid to do.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Its cool. For all I know I may have said it in my head and not typed it! :lol:

No I agree, there is times where I think they try and close there eyes to the fact!


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> I can definitely tell that none of you that have responded has cattle or horses.


or kids.....

I can TOTALLY see why you would want to know! Hell I wouldn't let my kids play out side knowing there is a MOUNTAIN lion in your back yard (While living in CO a famiy had a son snatched on a walk in the mountains). IMHO you have a cat roaming your area. As to why these guys are acting this way stumps me? I think they would be asking different question if it was their backyard.

Get out and set some traps or get out the gun! You have a kitten problem!


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

I guess my issue is that all I did was post up pictures of what I believe to be an attack and right away someone starts in on me and the entire point of the thread was changed.

My topic on the thread wasn't "Hey, I think the G&F are a bunch of jacka$$es not doing their job."


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Thank you Maverick!

I was beginning to think that it was my name that got drawn out of a hat today to be a jerk to :lol:


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## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

I actually mentioned a sighting to a game and fish personel and kinda got that same reaction that you are describeing.... I think its great to hear all of the sightings... unfortunately some of them are at the expense of horses but this one was near thompson a cpl yrs ago and I had just mentioned it to this person one day and his reaction was that I must be retarded to think that thats what was seen.... even though two years prior there was one caught on a troopers dash cam crossing the interstate... so I can see where your coming from.... just thought it was kinda rude the way he acted... and no I wasnt expecting them to do anything about it but its just the reaction you get....


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> Sorry Hunt4P&Y, must have missed where you must have said that.
> 
> :lol: No, I'm not going for you to say that they are being meany heads, but, I'm being chastised for being upset at people being treated unfairly. And, I'm being pointed at and laughed at for actually calling in a potential attack like that is something stupid to do.


I hope it wasn't me that was doing any chastizing?

It sounded like yes you called in the report, someone took down the info, and that was it. Correct?

Do you think they didn't believe you because they didn't come out to visually inspect another horse?

Sorry if you thought it was my being a big meany head. I just don't know what more G&F should do at this point for those people who do call in. They document it and that should be it right?

I don't think anyone here that I could read into, was laughing at you at all. The lion attacks are very serious, and it would help folks to know where an attack occurred... with the caveat being to me.. that the attack happened upon a human.

So question for you Lvn2... thanks for taking a moment to let me know your feelings on this...

If ND G&F took down the reports courteously, noted the time and location, and said thank you very much... would that be all you are looking for?


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## Goose Guy350 (Nov 29, 2004)

Sorry about the horse.

We had a horse get torn up pretty good in the late 80's, I believe it took around 175 stitches to patch the horse up. A bunch of pictures were taken back then and most people believed from the wounds it was a cat attack and most people believed the only reason the horse survived was that it just had new shoes put on and that it was able to defend itself a bit. When authorities were told they claimed it was a bear attack, for the longest time MI wouldn't admit there were cats here because they didn't have funding for management and other things that they would be required to have for a threatened species. Soon after they admitted that there could be some cats around but they were here from domestic stock that were released or escaped from someone and now I believe there stance is that there finally are a few cats around up here. Its hard seeing a pet/livestock wounded after an attack but its something we have to deal with by living in the country where we and our pets/livestock are part of the food chain.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

R Y A N - not so much you.

No, the reports are not taken courteously. Just like there is reading between the lines, there is also tone and manner of delivery of questions and statements.

I guess it's hard to explain unless you experience it.

But, that was NOT that point of this thread. Like I've already said, all I wanted to do was post up pictures of a possible attack and get some decent dialog about if people thought it was one thing or another. Additionally, to shed some light on how people were being treated.

One more thing about the "reports," if they can't confirm that it is a cat, how can they confirm that it is not. What I mean is, whenever someone (that I have known) calls in a sighting, the information isn't "just taken down." A judgement is passed almost immediately that it couldn't be a cat because of one reason or another. How can you look at a couple pictures without investigation and say that no, it is not a cat, it has to be wire or something when they haven't seen anything but a few bad pictures.

In that instance, they shouldn't say anything other than, "we do not have and are not able to gather enough evidence to either support or negate an attack."

Just like when the guy's horse that was "attacked by a juniper bush" around McDowell Dam - G&F said with certainty that there wasn't enough evidence to say that it was a lion, but was complete sure it wasn't. How does that work?

BTW - this horse, in this instance was south of Menoken


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

Honest to god in my ranching lifetime I have had 1 horse look at least that bad and another much worse that died from wire damage, and it looked jusy like that. A colt gets thinking he needs to get somewhere and the worse he hurts the harder he pushes. It may have been a lion, but I am not going to keep my kids in nights because a lion was killed 30 miles north of me last winter. There here. Deal with it or move to someplace with less wildlife impact. Oh wait there really arent any left.... :beer:


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

Sorry to hear your horse was injured, But you should do some research on how Mountain Lions kill prey before jumping to conclusions. There claws dig in and make puncture marks to hold, it wouldn't even be possible for one to make that many scratches on its body. Do some investigation yourself, look for tracks, scat, hair etc. Search the area until you figure out what happened. Something spooked him coyotes, Dogs, Lion etc. Then what happened from there can only be determined by thoroughly searching the area. I'm just trying to help you out to see what happened so you can prevent it in the future.
A Vet knows about as much about mountain lion attacks as any other person who has never seen one.
There are lions in the eastern part of the state, but if there were as many as people think we should be seeing quite a few harvested, especially around deer hunting. The habitat here just doesn't suit them, all people are seeing are transient animals passing through in my opinion. Breeding populations are in the Badlands of the West.


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Lvn2Hnt,

I'm sorry if you thought I was picking on you or putting you down, I wasn't I just don't really see what else GNF can do about it. People need to look after their own and if you think it's a cat then try to kill it. IMO people rely on government agencies too much now days and are more worried about what some beaurocrat thinks. I say git ur done!

As for the pics, it's kind of hard to tell but IMO if it had been a cat I think that horse would be dead. I don't see any puncture wounds and a cats claws would have shreaded him worse then that.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I say young lion.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Just for clarification, this was not my horse. It is a very good friend of mine and neighbor.

I too have had horses that have had at least that bad and worse cuts from wire. What made this a little different is that this horse was not in an enclosure that had ANY wire in it. It was in a wood fence pen. There was no hair on any of the wood anywhere in the pen.

That said, I too have questions about whether it was a lion or not, but there are so many odd circumstances.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

I vote Fence: Between being in the wrong pen, and if watching National Geographic incessantly as a kid taught me anything, a cat bite would have been centered on the wind pipe. That's almost "shoulder" level. Cats pretty much crush the wind pipe to choke animals to death... at least every cheetah and lion attack I've ever seen goes down like that.

Still... a mountain lion wouldn't surprise me. I'd never call anybody who thought "lion" a fool. I'd keep my eyes peeled for tracks, and if the dog starts barking all night again, lock-n-load.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

omegax > pretty much what G&F said from looking at the pics.

Please, if anyone has pics or access to pics of actual cat attacks on horses or cattle, I would love to see them to compare.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

buckseye said:


> I say young lion.


I agree!!!IMHO


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Maverick said:


> buckseye said:
> 
> 
> > I say young lion.
> ...


Ditto.


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Ligers got my vote


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

USSapper said:


> Ligers got my vote


They are pretty much my favorite animal... bred for its skills in magic.

I bet if it was a liger attack, the horse would have been magically transported to another dimension.


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## stash (Jan 20, 2007)

Call USDA Wildlife Services in Bismarck, they will be able to give you an answer with experience and facts. Ask for Phil or John. 250-4405. This thread should be locked it is just BS to continue. case solved


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I just called lion tracks into NDG&F two weeks ago, they don't really care.


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## jonesy12 (Apr 1, 2008)

Young Lion IMO.

Regarding calling in the "possible" attack. Why not call it in? If there is one roaming around, let people know about it. It doesn't mean everyone needs to panic, go out and buy rations and lock them selves in the basement. Could be a lion, could be a fence. But if nothing is called in, the G&F don't take it seriously and god forbid a kid gets snatched up. Then knowing there was one in the area and nobody did anything about it. I think the shat would hit the fan with alot of people.


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## jonesy12 (Apr 1, 2008)

omegax said:


> USSapper said:
> 
> 
> > Ligers got my vote
> ...


It would've been turned into a unicorn


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## Kayte (Sep 22, 2008)

My lord...poor colt. It looks like a cat to me. I hope they catch it soon!!

I hope your little darlin' feels better soon too.


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

Without seeing the area it is hard to say, BUT I have personnaly called in a horse/lion attack on an adult mare.

Three years ago I reported the mares attack and it was written up as probable which I could live with.

If I had to guess based on the photos, I would also say wire! I have seen numerous wire cuts on horses and it really does remind me of it.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> If I had to guess based on the photos, I would also say wire! I have seen numerous wire cuts on horses and it really does remind me of it.


His second post *she* said...


> especially when there NO wire laying around or around the horse that could've cause what they are saying is a wire injury.


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

Yep read that post to, I am not looking to argue it, he asked what people thought and I replied with my opinion.

I guess my reasons for why are as follows:

1) that is a colt, not a full grown horse - so I can't imagine a cougar would have attacked from below the mid-line.

2)there is no consistancy it the cuts, why would there be one large cut on the front shoulder with a bunch of shallow surface cuts around it? The horse I had attacked had uniform cuts that were about 1/2" - 3/4" deep. The ones on this colt look just deep enough to remove the hair and get the epidermal layer, not into the muscle tissue.

3) There are no cuts, at least not in the photo's I saw, on the top half of the horse except for the scratches on the right side of the neck.

4) If the cat had that much time to work on the front shoulder there should be bite marks, which I don't see either. A cat will not just claw an animal it attacks, it will attach to it with the claws but kills with its teeth.

5) The one large cut surrounded with a bunch of shallow one tells me the horse was caught up in something and when it paniced, the larger muscle tissue cut occurred.

Again, it is just my opinion?


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> I am not looking to argue it


Neither am I! I was just requoting what *she* had said in case you did miss it. That's about it! :beer:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Kayte said:


> My lord...poor colt. It looks like a cat to me. I hope they catch it soon!!
> 
> I hope your little darlin' feels better soon too.


What would they do if the caught a mountain lion? Play with it?


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

She, boys, I'm a she. LOL


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Lvn, I think I can see your point. It's not so much that you want the G&F to do something about it, you just want them to acknowledge that the attack is a possibility and not treat you likea a moron.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Exactly


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Sorry Luv......I thought she was a he....my bad.... :beer:


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> She, boys, I'm a she. LOL


About every couple of years you have to clear that one up, don't ya? Too funny.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

MSG> Yup, oh well. LOL On Saturday I got a call about some decoys I'm selling, the guy asked to speak with my husband about some decoys he was selling. I had to tell them that they were mine, pretty sure he was quite confused. LOL! :lol:


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

You guys have kids ???

I sure as hell would want to know if that was a CAT if I had kids in the yard !!

I have said it a hundred times, this subject will turn very differently when the first kid is taken out of someones backyard... ...

The gal is not try to report an alien abduction here, he is simply trying to understand what the hell is prowling around at night.


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

Yep have two kids, 15 and 11. I think about it quite a bit, living out in rural ND with very few neighbors!

But life has to go on as normal as possible! Was a little nervous this srpring when I had a day old colt killed about 300 feet from the house, but I won't teach my kids to be afraid either, just AWARE!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Actually I think a young lion had it cornered against a fence... now we are all right!


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## BeekBuster (Jul 22, 2007)

buckseye said:


> Actually I think a young lion had it cornered against a fence... now we are all right!


 lol... :bop:


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

buckseye said:


> Actually I think a young lion had it cornered against a fence... now we are all right!


Must be snowing in He11! buckseye being diplomatic!


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

While it could be a cat I wouldn't be too quick to discount our most common predator... Coyotes. They are becoming more agressive and it would not supprise me that 2-3 would take on a colt. In the last few years I have witnessed a lone adult coyote take on a mulie buck on two occassions.


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## mnwatrfwl (Sep 16, 2005)

As to cougars only going for the throat that is if it is a ground based attack unless they go for a jump to drag it's prey down.

If they are attacking from an elevated position they go for neck bite to break the spinal cord.

Seen it before out west growing up on deer, cattle, horses, etc.

The wound to the foreleg could be an indication of a back elevated attack and the wound caused by the cougars claws digging for a hold.

To many interpretations to say for sure. Although I would like to know how they explain the striation patterns.

Funny thing here though in 2 years we have had two cat attacks one in a tent and the DNR called it a bobcat another a few weeks ago that still has been kept quiet about even though the guy was lifeflighted out. ER doc from out west says it was a cougar, victim says cougar, tracks say cougar, unofficially LEO's say cougar, DNR says unknown animal.

As to cougars in Fargo my hunting buddy who was building a house on the Cheyenne (i think that is the name of it) in west fargo had one come thru and the whole work crew saw it. This was 2 years ago.

Good luck folks maybe time to invest in some hounds, or some large herding breed dogs.


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