# Gun Control????



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So with the shooting that just happened in TX and Buffalo we will be hearing all summer pre-election about gun control.

Even though as facts are coming out about these two shootings is just crazy.

The response of the TX PD
The shooter in Buf chose the area because of "gun laws" on books
School safety and protocols that were ignored or didn't happen...
etc.

But here are some things to think about and some possible solutions.

1. We sent $40B to Ukraine to ARM THEMSELVES. That money could have went to schools for updated safety features. These features contrary to "RADICAL" left would make schools "prisons" at all. BTW... There is about 100K public schools in the USA... that $40B would have been about $400K to each of these schools to upgrade things I will talk about. And these things are not some SCFI state of the art. Think of safe home offered by Alexa.

- Single point entry when students are present. You have them for apartment buildings, office complex's, etc. You know you do in one door then have to get BUZZED into the building to get into another door. Put a camera there. Not that hard or overly expensive to do.

- Alarms on any doors that are locked and get opened from the inside. I have two "alarms" on my office doors that cost me $20 and they give an BUZZZ so I know if people come into those doors. My office is in the back and I can always see if people come in one of the doors. SIMPLE... Have this "alarm" go to the office of the school. Where a secretary or anyone can see if a door is opened. With WIFI not that expensive or hard to do.

- Shatter/bullet proof glass at entrances and doors (think sandy hook guy shot out plain double pane glass). This is proven to help and slow people it all down so others can get out the other doors. Again... Alarm type system on it when glass breaks that alerts a central point. THis would be the most expensive.

- LOCK THE DOORS so that nobody from the outside can get in. yeah... that is how this idiot got into the building...an unlocked back door.

So there is simple solutions to help prevent things like this from happening. THAT IS IF THE SCHOOL FOLLOWS THRU.

Now onto the "gun" control. Topic. Since this is a hunting site most of us are very pro 2A.

You hear liberals scream... COMMON SENSE laws. Well we have a ton of laws on the books and many do conflict with each other. You know like mental health records and sharing of juvenal records and what not. The backlogs of agents on NICS checks for firearms and what not. So there are laws on the books that actually hurt background checks. But that is something they dont want to talk about. OR the laws that help keep firearms out of felons hands but courts DROP those charges or "gun" charges ASAP or plea stuff down. Instead of hammering people to the fullest extent of the law. I know all of this costs MONEY. But all we hear about is DEFUND POLICE.... FBI IS HORRIBLE... ETC. So yeah you have that problem as well.

But in MN to purchase an AR or Handgun you need to have something called a purchase permit. IT IS FREE OF CHARGE. All you do is go to your local Chief of police or city hall and fill out the permit. They have 7 days to either accept or deny the permit. What this does or supposed to do is go thru a little more "thorough" background check. The permit is good for 1 year. You take this permit up to any store and show it to them and get your gun that same day. SIMPLE. Also if you have a Carry and Conceal permit... it acts just like this Purchase permit. Again this is FREE OF CHARGE. It is for purchasing an AR or a Handgun. 

This is honestly something I can get behind. It really isn't that big of an inconvenience unless you forget that it expired. Which I have done... but then the store just holds the gun for me with a little "down payment" and I am back 7 days later to pick it up.

So anyone else care for discussion? Also can always be talking points when you discuss with others outside of this forum.

Here is an EDIT: I forgot to add in some literature about the permit I was talking about.



> *THE PERMIT TO PURCHASE (OR TRANSFEREE PERMIT)*
> The Transferee Permit system in Minnesota is setup to allow immediate transfer of a Pistol or SAMSAW.
> 
> Any MN resident may apply at their local CLEO office for a Transferee Permit – more commonly known as a MN Permit to Purchase – at no cost. The CLEO has 7 days to approve/deny the permit under MN Statute 624.7131. This statute also defines the appeals process for those who feel they have been denied unfairly.
> ...


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

The leftist media here do cover the daily shootings, blaming the firearms and "gun culture" instead of our broken court system and the fatherless product of decades of social welfare.

You're right, the hypocrisy is strong.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Some other things to think about or discuss...

Who do we as a society blame when someone drinks 12 beers, gets into a vehicle and drives home? Then they kill someone. Do we blame the Car? Beer? Or the idiot who CHOOSES TO DRIVE. If it was the "gun abolish" crowd's logic you blame the beer or the car. Beer is too easily accessed, need a license/background check to buy beer, etc. Then you will hear them say... WELL YOU ARE LICENSED TO DRIVE... Correct. Think of what a driver's license does or the course you have to take to get a drivers license. It teaches you to drive a car, the laws of operation of a car, and then you pass a test on using the car to show you can physically do it. Well what will a "gun" license do? Show that you can shoot a gun, use it correctly? Shows you know the "laws" of not to kill someone or point a gun at people? Do you think if someone wants to go and hurt others that having a license will "stop" this. NOPE. Just like when you get licensed to drive a car you have to go thru a whole chapter about DRUNK DRIVING... but is that stopping people from DRIVING DRUNK......NOPE!!!!

I mean these "shootings" are not accidents because they are not thinking gun safety? Or don't know that killing someone is wrong.

So honestly what will the "licensing" to own a gun actually do?? NOTHING. I know people will say...well you need a background check to get a "license"... OK... see my above post about how we do go thru a background check and that the NICS is back logged because they are not funded and that some records can't be accessed because of LAWS.

Now something else to consider that isn't getting talked about. Video games and also other "games"...ie: Air Soft. You know where people dress up all "tactical" and go shoot BB style soft ammunition/rounds at each other. But onto the video games.... they are very very life like. Amazing graphics and detailed. NOW I AM NOT BLAMING THESE GAMES AT ALL. But those games teach tactics and what not. Also gun manufacturers are making more guns that look like the guns in the games. Look at all the "precision" type rifles now on the market. Before if you want them you need to order all the parts yourself or talk with a gunsmith to custom build those guns. Now Savage, Ruger, etc make them and distribute them to your local Scheels. It is all marketing to the "gamer" crowed.

Again I am not blaming gun manufacturers or video games or Air soft. But it is things that need to be honestly talked about with what is all going on. I mean when I was growing up in the late 80's and 90's and 00's. The graphics and video games were not like today. You had your mario cart, football, a few "war" type games. But nothing like today and what not. Plus look on youtube and you can see alot of people shooting many (IMHO) cool guns...ie: AK's, AR's, M4's, Barretts, full auto, etc. So there is more exposure to these types of weapons and wanting to shoot them. I KNOW I DO.

Again... this is things that need to be discussed when talking all about gun issues. Let alone mental health, lack of supervision, lack of father/mothers, bullying, mental wellness, possible drugs (prescribed) people are on, lack of faith, etc.

Also to any crowed about BANNING... how did that go for drugs, Alcohol (remember prohibition), etc. How is the "war on drugs" going? I am sure the same people who are saying BAN ALL GUNS or even BAN AR'S are the same that want legalization for Pot. Now I dont need to go into that completely. But if people say "pot never killed anyone"... WRONG.. Why did cartel's have wars? As dealers if they been shot at or violence against them for selling in the wrong area? Yeah the users might not have died... but POT has alot of blood on its hands... even now when it is legal in many areas..... Still cartels and dealers selling illegally. Just saying. Wont even talk about Fentanyl and opioids. But you get my point.

Plus those are not protected by the 2A.

But just things to think about and discuss. Love to hear any feed back at all.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

When Cain killed Abel God didn't ban rocks.

We don't have a gun problem, we have a culture problem. Have you ever noticed the people who want to ban guns have very bad tempers. Perhaps they can imagine killing someone. They shoukd take personal responsibility and never own a gun. However they shoukd not force a ban on reasonable cool headed people who woukd never want hurt anyone.
Driving a car is an privilege, but owning a gun is a right. Its reasonable to require a license to drive, but I couldn't support anything like that for guns. I dont remember the time requirement, but the FBI is required to destroy information on your gun purchase within something like three months. Years ago we heard they kept all information illegally and we already have a facsimile of gun registration. I still have boxes in the rafters of my garage with serial numbers of guns I sold 20 years ago. That woukd drive them nuts.

Politicians calling for gun control don't want to stop school shooting. they are dictator wannabes who want a disarmed society helpless as they go off the deep end. Never trust anyone for gun control. When they say "reasonable" who determins what's reasonable, them? They are all a bunch of Karen's.

I dont think a kid who plays games like Call of Duty a half hour a day will have problems, but I do think parents who use these games as baby sitters four to five hours a day are going to have calouse children.

I think Chuck is spot on with how the 40 billion we sent the Ukrain should have been used.

The problem with society started when the same liberals who want gun control threw God out of our schools. They created the problem. but have no idea how to solve it.

Roman's 1:28 explains liberals.

And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.
Romans 1:28 ESV









Romans 1:28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. | English Standard Version 2016 (ESV) | Download The Bible App Now


And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.



bible.com





Unfortunately for the freedom of our republic there is no shortage of Republicans that are fools, and think they can be more acceptable if they go along with gun control.

Speaking of twisted liberals: we can all agree killing a 10 year old is insane, but somehow liberals think killing the even more defenseless in the birth canal is ok.


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## Fungalwound (8 mo ago)

Chuck Smith said:


> So with the shooting that just happened in TX and Buffalo we will be hearing all summer pre-election about gun control.
> 
> Even though as facts are coming out about these two shootings is just crazy.
> 
> ...





Chuck Smith said:


> So with the shooting that just happened in TX and Buffalo we will be hearing all summer pre-election about gun control.
> 
> Even though as facts are coming out about these two shootings is just crazy.
> 
> ...



The police acted in reverse of every active shooter training curriculum ever conducted. The lessons of Beslan and Mumbai were thoroughly studied and war gamed.

The response is clear and simple. The first good guy on scene engages the bad guy, or he keeps killing as rapidly as possible. This is done without backup if necessary and with what you are currently carrying, no delays to "armor up" or to grab more firepower. Every second of delay kills more innocents.

It's probably a suicide mission, your only goal is to stop the killing for as long as possible, so other good guys with guns can arrive and continue the engagement until the terrorists is put down.

The actions of that police department is clear, they WANTED as much death as possible. Thereby assisting the call to disarm the law abiding. This is political, it was calculated, and it was allowed to happen. Every cop in that unit needs to immediately loose their peace officer certificates. Cowards and political operatives are not needed. Then they should be sent to some place where real men with guns can shoot at them.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> This is political, it was calculated, and it was allowed to happen.


One is reluctant to think people are that bad, but if they can kill the unborn and want the old to die its not much of a stretch to think they will do anything to get what they want. It will be much easier to end America if we are all unarmed peasants.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Keerist you guys! Do something! Don't just sit there and accept that the USA is messed up severly.
Do something. Do anything. Maybe a little bit of everything? You're all over the abortion issue. Why not the same fervor for mass shootings? Of children?
Sorry I am just saddened by the state of affairs and struggle to understand why.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

This guy is spot on.



The Mass Shooting and Liberal Utopian Society

Written by:  Pastor Andrew Isker



In the last two weeks, there have been two mass shootings in the United States, and the second took place this week at an elementary school in Uvalde, Texas. These shootings have reignited the regime’s already intense desire for a disarmed populace. Even before the bodies of the dead children had been removed from the school, our mentally diminished President spoke to the nation, demanding that rifles (which he is not even able to accurately describe) be confiscated across a 330 million person country spanning an entire continent.
This despicable man, and the legion of sociopathic ghouls arrayed behind him, are clearly overjoyed that there is a classroom full of young children lying dead in Texas. They don’t actually care about the anguish of parents who will never see their child grow up. Their deaths are merely a political prop for the most evil people on the planet.
It is hard to fully comprehend just how totalitarian such designs are. But these are the very same sadistic freaks who successfully locked those 330 million people in their homes for weeks or months, and then (mostly successfully) restricted their ability to provide for their families if they refused to get an extremely dangerous mRNA injection that does not even accomplish its intended purpose. All you are to them is a guinea pig or a rat in a social experiment. You do not matter. Your children do not matter. You only exist to provide them with power.
You must understand that school shooters and other mass shooters are an extremely acute symptom of the disease that horribly afflicts the American nation. You live in an incredibly sick society, and since you are born into it and live in it every day, you go about your life mostly unaware of just how dreadful things really are. It is imperative for the people who manufacture the inversion of reality that you perceive everything through the lens of the now.
*This is why “The Current Thing” has such memetic power:* it attacks reality distortion at its source, where obsession over what is, right now, cuts you off from any sense of historical perspective. In the case of mass shootings, the exclusion of historical perspective keeps the masses from noticing that mass shootings are a very recent phenomenon and that decades ago, when the United States had vastly more liberal gun laws, and anyone could even purchase fully automatic submachine guns in the mail, this never happened. The question you should ask is, why not? What exactly was different about America 90 years ago compared to today?
The answer to that question is fairly obvious. *Modern American society is a factory for psychopaths.* The young man in the North American Continent is planted in a field fertilized by atomization, loneliness, and hopelessness. Many have never met their father, and most do not have anything remotely close to a “good relationship” with him. Most have no meaningful connection to the community in which they live, nor even the nation they inhabit. In school, they are social outcasts, driven to niche internet communities for the only semblance of human interaction in their lives. They are marinated in hardcore pornography from before they have even reached pubescence.
They know (or at least perceive) that they will never know the love of a flesh-and-blood woman. They are on the kind of pharmacological cocktail that any premodern society would only ascribe to witchcraft and demon possession. They have nothing to live for and no one who loves them. Given how many young men our nation is producing like this, the question we ought to be asking is not “why does this happen?” but rather “why does it not happen a lot more?”
*America is an incredibly sick nation.* There is a spiritual sickness that pervades everything like a dark cloud. The people who dominate every institution in our nation have held this power for at least sixty years. For these sixty years, they have treated this nation as a grand social experiment. They have made the natural family, the very bedrock of human civilization, an antiquated, outdated institution that we have progressed beyond.
They have financialized and commodified all of human life, uprooting people from their homes and extended families, and making them mercenaries chasing after a rapidly devalued dollar. They have exported the industry of the nation impoverishing the heartland of the country and leaving them to languish in despair. They actively cheer the deaths and replacement of the hated population, while at the same time denying this was ever their intent. They have introduced racial and ethnic strife, and in the chaos actively undermined rule of law. Sixty years of full-spectrum control by utopian social engineers have transformed the most affluent society in human history into hell on earth.
*This did not happen by accident. These people are motivated by a deep hatred of humanity.* Like the geriatric that currently occupies the Oval Office who well represents them, they simply do not care how much people suffer. You might think the progressive is merely mistaken, deluded by ideology. This is not the case. They have had more than sixty years to see the full extent of human misery their ideology produces when applied to the healthiest and most prosperous conditions. They know what they are doing.
But what is to be done? The utopian bugmen that dominate our nation must be overcome. *You must personally re-capture the same spirit of Christian America that built a great nation. *You must do all within your personal sphere of influence to rebuild the things that our enemies have destroyed. You must rebuild churches dominated by liberals and weak-willed conservatives. You must rebuild neighborhoods and communities with people who, like you, love the nation that their great, great-grandparents built and who want to worship the same God who gave them such strength.
You must devote your life to both retaking what institutions you can, and creating alternatives for the institutions you can’t. It is not simply enough to decry that the libs have ruined everything—of course they have, they are like cancer! You must have a vision for your people, you must provide for them the thing they have taken away: hope for the future. We can again have the world that the liberal globalist regime has destroyed. A world where the fear of the Triune God pervades the land and not hopelessness and despair. You can have a world where things like mass shootings never happen again, but you must devote yourself to a life of repentance, faith, and an unquenchable passion for the true, good, and beautiful things God has given


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Do something. Do anything.


 We are trying to vote out the criminal pampering liberals that have caused this mess, but it takes time. They also messed up our education system that's part of the problem. The problem is between the ears of crazy people not guns. It appears not only the democrats but the reoublicans don't want to face the real problem. Parents will attack those who try discipline bat crap crazy little Johnny, and parents vote. So little Johnny will continue to kill people, and politicians will punish the innocent, under the guise of trying, because the innocent will take the abuse.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck....

I am trying... I have emailed each one of my "representatives" from my state and told them just what I stated on here. About how the $40B sent to the Ukraine could have went towards a "safe" school. Also how that it wouldn't make the schools a "prison" like many say. I mentioned that apartment buildings are like this for safety, business offices, airports, etc. WHY CANT SCHOOLS. I didn't mention one thing about metal detectors. I talked about how many of the shootings that have happened people gained access from either unlocked doors or doors not outfitted with the safety precautions that are needed. 

Then I mentioned like I did here. Again not blaming any games or gamers at all. But those games are so life like that it could be desensitizing kids and also showing tactics or how to be "tactical". This I tried to lead into mental health and mental health issues.

But we will see if it falls on deaf ears. Because All I got back was a "form" letter.

But who knows. Trying the process and see if they listen. But then like plainsman... VOTING is how we can do things.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is something to think about as well.

Some Democrats were pushing to have the voting age dropped to 16. They are purposing not allowing people to buy a gun until 21. Let this sink in.

Responsible enough to VOTE at 16... but yet not old enough to purchase a firearm until 21. BOTH CARE HUGE RESPONSIBILITIES. Remember you are able to vote now at 18 and go into the military at that18... OR be "on your own"....ie: and ADULT at 18 years of age.

Just things to think about and discuss with others.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

A person is still foolish at 16. Also most 16 year old have been public school indoctrinated. That woukd make them likely democrate voters, just like the socialists who ruined their own country and now come across our souther border to ruin our country. They learned nothing from their experience.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

*I am going to preface this by saying that even one child, or person for that matter being killed in a mass shooting is a tragedy.*

But, for a little perspective, from 1982 to 2021 there were 123 mass shootings, 952 people were killed. (Time magazine) According to the USDOT an average of 40,000 people are killed each year in traffic accidents, and according to John Hopkins Medical 250,000 people die each year due to medical malpractice, *that's PER YEAR.* 

Why is the mainstream media not hammering this? Why do we hear only of gun control? 

The short answer is, because the liberal democrats and their propaganda arm (mainstream media) desperately want to disarm the American people. Total government control can't happen with an armed citizenry. The end game here is the elimination of every single firearm in this country except for those in government control. They realize that this will not happen at once, so they pick away at single things. Right now it's the evil assault rifle (whatever that is) next it will be handguns, then sporting rifles and shotguns. They are already talking about eliminating all weapons of war, their definition of this is anything the military uses. Guess what, the military uses handguns, shotguns and bolt action rifles.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Huntin1.... 100% spot on correct.

I read an article yesterday (cant remember what state). But it was a suspect "shooter" in a store or something got caught and arrested. THEN WAS LET OUT ON BOND. The bond wasn't that expensive because of the "laws" in the state about bonds and what not. Guess what... They caught this guy (a felon) in possession of guns, drugs, etc. The amount of drugs was "enough" to sell (how it was described). So this is another thing that needs to be in the discussion as well. OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM IS FAILING US. Us who are outdoorsmen know this first hand. Look how poachers get a slap on the wrist when they get caught. Fines are low, punishments are low (losing license maybe for a year or two). We know that the judicial system looks at wildlife crimes just like parking tickets. Anyways... if people want to have an HONEST discussion about all of this. They need to talk about everything... not just the object (gun).


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The liberals hate God, and now we all pay for it, including little kids with their blood.

Sorry cant get the image to show. Anyway we are up over 1400% in school shootings since banning prayer in school.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck....

What do you think about what is happening in Canada right now with "gun control"?

To get people caught up to speed. 2 years ago, Canada banned AR's or "military style/grade" new weapon sales. Can people still possess them? Is there a grandfather type law? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Now they are trying to pass a bill for Banning the sales of handguns. I think if you already own one you are "grandfathered" in... but any new purchases are banned.

So Canuck... what are your thoughts on this?

Also to anyone in the USA.... THIS IS WHAT WE ARE AFRAID OF. Once you ban one weapon where does is stop??? Hence is why we have the 2nd Amendment. It also can be stated for freedom of speech.... even though you are against it but what happens when you ban one type of speech.... where does it end?


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Hi Chuck I will do my best to answer your questions.
_*Can people still possess them? Is there a grandfather type law? Please correct me if I am wrong.*_
Nope. AR-style weapons are no longer allowed in Canada. They must be locked up and stored while a buy back program is put in place.

_*Now they are trying to pass a bill for Banning the sales of handguns. I think if you already own one you are "grandfathered" in... but any new purchases are banned.*_
Yes. New handguns can not be purchased. Existing handguns are exempt, but within the strict rules already in place for storing, transporting and using handguns.

For most Canadians owning guns is a privelidge. I say most because if you are an aboriginal person your *treaty* *rights* state that you can use whatever weapon you choose to harvest food for domestic purposes. The Courts have interpreted that to mean Indians, Inuit and Metis can own assault weapons.Interesting eh!

Further, "long guns" are limited to 5 round capacity. Not sure how the firearms people will deal with tubulars magazines on .22's or how they will deal with shotgun capacity considering there are 2" 2.5" 2.75" 3" and 3.5" shells out there.

In Canada we do not "worship" guns. It is not our right and it is not our culture. That said, guns are totally accepted and acceptable when used as a tool by hunters, trappers, farmers, target shooters, etc. etc. etc. I own exactly 4 guns...a .22 Winchester lever action that holds way more than 5 shells, a single shot .270 Winchester for big game, a single shot .410 shotgun for potting grouse and vermin, a a 12 gauge O/U for bird hunting. That is all the guns I need or want I guess. I don't think about it much. They are just guns.

So what do I think is the problem?

1) Guns are too easy to buy in the USA. In Canada you need a Licence to purchase a gun, To get that licence you need to take a firearm course, pass an exam and undergo a detailed background check including possibly contacting your spouse and others seeking information. Then you can purchase and register a weapon..
2) The USA is so divided both politically and socially. Plainsman provided a statement by Pastor Isker that he felt described the American situation accurately. I found the opinon piece to be somewhat hate-filled towards your elected leader and intolerant of others, especially non-Christians. Your elected leader was called "a _despicable man, and the legion of sociopathic ghouls arrayed behind him, are clearly overjoyed that there is a classroom full of young children lying dead in Texas" _and " _You can have a world where things like mass shootings never happen again, but you must devote yourself to a life of repentance, faith, and an unquenchable passion for the true, good, and beautiful things God has given." _Is that as long as he is the same God I am worshiping?

The problem goes beyond my comprehension. I have no solution.

Edit: One more thing...I thought the most funniest thing I heard was when "guns were not allowed in the NRA convention when Trump was speaking"...why not arm every single one of the "good guys" there for his speech...Hypocrits!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Canuck we have enough gun laws, but our soft on other crimes judges don't enforce them. If your picked up with cocain and a gun you plead it down to a misdemeanor. If your picked up with a gun in the wrong place, like a political rally and you don't have drugs your in trouble. Intentional or not the democrats are giddy with every shooting. Not long ago a shooting was stopped by a man with a gun. but you don't hear a peep now. 
They want background checks. Guess what we have had them for 20+ years. They want to close the gun show loophole. We'll guess what there is no gun show loop hole. They want crime to go down like it did in the last assault weapons ban. We'll guess what the truth is. Studies could not find enough change to document. 
We don't worship guns we value freedom. and only worship God. When Trudeau declares himself dictator were going to have to put more border security on our northern border, but only after a couple of years. Leave it open for two years because the cream of the crop will escape first. If they haven't caught on on two years we don't want them. Send us your intelligent and hard working. I'm not being a joker here I am dead seriouse.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck,

Thank you for the clarification and input.

The question I have for you. What is the "course" about that you have to take? What is the exam?

But what you described is exactly what scares most gun owning citizens in the USA. You know the slippery slope aspect of it all.

You talk about the can't hold more than 5 shells. Well... spring snow goose hunters with extended tubes will be illegal. People who shoot or eradicate hogs down in TX, OK, etc for farmers with shot guns and also AR style weapons out of helicopters can't have more than 5 shells??? BTW... Helicopter hunting of hogs has been the best way to help slow the problem. Since they can't legally poison them. Then like you mentioned.... How do they regulate tube style magazines on .22's or shotguns and even some lever action rifles?

But you see what you just described after just 2 years..... they went for more regulations... and more regulations and more regulations. 

Now I know that Canada doesn't have a bill of rights so to speak like the USA. What I mean by this is that they dont have the 2nd amendment that we have in the USA... ie: Right to bare arms. 

Now I will agree that there is a huge cultural difference when it comes to guns between USA and Canada. But many feel the exact same way as you do...ie: accepted as tools like you mentioned and for the purposes you mentioned. I remember when Canada passed the registration law. I was actually up hunting waterfowl and many of the farmer's were upset with it. Because just like you mentioned they view their guns as a tool. Many talked about the .22 or .243 they had. They said we use them to shoot raccoons, skunks, coyotes, etc. They viewed their guns just like they view a pitchfork or hammer. Now that was about 20 years ago or so. They also mentioned... Well what is next or what will they regulate next. Some were not too worried but others were. They stated just like I always say... It could go bad or the wrong way depending on WHO COMES INTO POWER. Now you are getting the laws you are stating.

Also like you many in the USA don't feel the "need" to own AR's and what not. But they do understand that it could become a slippery slope and the next thing that will be taken is their handguns, hunting rifles, etc.

Canuck.... How do you sell a gun to a neighbor or a friend in Canada? Is there some sort of check or place you have to go to make this transaction happen? Or how about if you want to gift a gun to someone? IE: hand down your O/U to an adult child?


Plainsman.... The biggest LIE or CROCK OF CRAP out there is the whole "gun show loophole". This is so stupid and a lie. All the people who have a table or booth at gun shows and want to sell guns need to have an FFL. PERIOD!!!! The "loophole" is that lets say I am at a gun show. I am at a vendors booth and I hear a guy talking prices for a gun....lets say it is a glock pistol. I hear the price that the vendor quotes the guy ($800). The prospective buyer says... well let me think about it. I then walk up to the prospective buyer and say... Hey I got a glock I am willing to get ride of. I will sell it to you for $700. The guy agrees. So the private party to private party sale wont need a background check. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO TALK ABOUT WITH THE GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Chuck your right about the pseudo gun show loop hole. The truth as we both know it's no different than selling your gun to a guy down the street from your house.
One thing I notice is we all often get sucked into the
" you don't need 30 rounds to shoot a deer" bs. Then we start debating hunting not realizing we have been sidetracked. The second amendment that our founders gave us was intended as s protection against tyranny. The democrats constantly try crossing that line now, and have often crossed it, but I doubt anyone will do anything about it. We have rotted from the inside. If that was not true Hillary would be behind bars.

The problem is democrats don't respect the constitution, and tyrants hate it. Foreigners don't understand it because they have never tasted freedom and when they want to they expect us to come and win it for them. We have spilled oceans of blood and spent trillions of hard earned dollars for aholes that deserve nothing. 

We and much of the world have become so weak that we can not easily tolerate the truth. We hear the tired old cliche " momma said if you can't say anything nice dont say anything at all". Momma was a fool because say nothing and watch what happens to society. In the past we called it peer pressure and it kept society civil. Today the pressure is to ignore everything and the pressure is to shut up and let the crazies do anything.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

First-time licence applicants must pass the Canadian Firearms Safety Course before applying for a Possession and Acquisition Licence. After the in-class instruction, you will do a written and practical test.
Anyone 12 years or older can take the CFSC. Children under 12 can take the course, but only for educational purposes. They will not do the written or practical exams. To get a Minor's Licence to borrow and use non-restricted firearms, the minor must be between 12 and 17 years old.

Here is the course manual.
Canadian Firearms Safety Course

In order to sell a gun I have to ensure the buyer has a valid PAL. To do this I phone a computer data base to "register" the sale. I can just pass guns to family members as long as they have a PAL.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman... Correct. 

Look at the bill name in the House right now about gun control. It is called "PROTECT OUR CHILDREN ACT". I has nothing to do with "protecting" children. It is all gun reform bills. They need to add in GUN REFORM TO PROTECT OUR CHILDREN if they want to be honest. Because look what I stated above about how they could actually protect children. NONE OF THAT IS IN THIS BILL. So the honesty in the name of the bills is gone. This goes for both sides. But all it will be is... REPUBLICANS don't want to protect our children with this bill. Because of the name of the bill. Anyways... it shows you dishonesty with out elected officials. HENCE is why we have the 2A. Like you mentioned it is there not because of hunting. But to stop a government that starts to get too big and not do the will of the people. JUST LIKE THE FOREFATHERS DID... when the UK was over reaching and not listening to its people....ie: 13 colonies. The well armed and regulated millitia defeated the over reaching government. 

Anyways....

Canuck.... Please let me know what your license class was about and the exam as well. Because that is one thing that people keep talking about is "license people" who want guns. Well... what does the class teach? Is it gun safety or storage? I am curious.

Because like I talked about with Driver's Licenses. They teach you to follow laws (speed, traffic signs, etc). They teach you about DUI's and impaired driving.... But guess what... we still have speeding deaths, traffic sign violations that cause death, inattentive driving (cell phone usage) deaths, DUI deaths, etc. We have UNLICENSED DRIVERS who are driving and cause deaths. BTW... do you know that on average 1 out of 8 drivers in the USA don't have insurance. So making people have insurance... WONT DO A THING AS WELL. 

Again... I would like input on what the classes teach and what do they test on?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck.... you posted that while I was typing..

THANK YOU.

So what the class you are required to take and pass an exam on is the same as any HUNTER SAFETY COURSE in the USA. (i helped teach it for a few years). Teaches you about different guns, how to use them, safety, safe storage... only difference is the "restricted" portion. Which we don't have any "restricted" firearms.

So maybe we should offer these classes... IN SCHOOLS??? I remember back when I was in high school ( 25 years ago) I took a class called "Conservation". It was apart of the AG department. We learned conservation practices and what not. But also had a WEEK long class (1 hour a day so 5 hours of education) and it was to obtain your ADVANCE HUNTER EDUCATION card. Which is what you need if you want to hunt in western states or some other states. It is an endorsement that should be on your DL once you pass the test. But it was offered in school. I wonder how many Dem's would be all for a class like you mentioned taught in schools??? I mean why not teach gun safety and handling in schools. I mean if it "helps" with mass shootings not to take place... TEACH IT IN SCHOOLS. Correct?

Because right now to be able to hunt in most states (big game) for a resident you need a hunters ed certificate until you are 17 or 18. In most states. So offer this class to Jr. or Sr. Correct? Makes sense doesn't it? THIS IS FOR RESIDENTS OF THE STATE.

Again... Thank you for your input on this. This way when people in the USA discuss these topics we have a better understanding (hopefully) and can be more educated when we discuss it.

EDIT: BTW... most Drivers License courses are offered thru schools in many many states and smaller communities. So to say why would you want to teach it in schools.... Well you do it for DRIVING. Or they offer it during the "summer". Just things to think about and debate.

BTW... If they want to make it just like Canada where you need a license...ie: Hunter Safety... well most hunters have taken that course and should be grandfathered in. ALSO think what it could do to the hunting community...IE: help it grow!!! Maybe get more people out hunting.

Last side note..... What people dont know is that money from every sale of a gun or ammo goes to a federal conservation programs. eliminate guns and ammo sales.... what will happen to conservation and GREEN money.... yeah something to think about that they dont talk about.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Chuck,
I did not have to take the course as I was grandfathered under the law when it came into efect. People who had long histories of safe gun ownership received the Possesion Licence without taking the course. The course focuses on safe use and storage of firearms.
Again, here is the course manual. If you scroll through the Table of Contents you will get a clear picture of what they teach and test you on.
https://bcfirearmsacademy.ca/wp-con...non_restricted_resticted_how_to_buy_a_gun.pdf

As a kid the Hunter Safety Course we had to take was similar with respect to gun types and safety. It was a different time. I used to take my shotgun to school a put it in my locker so I could go duck hunting during my lunch break and right after school.

Edit: Chuck you posted when I was typing this time! A lot of our highschools had rifle ranges (.22 cal ony) in their basements!! A few still have them.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

_* I mean why not teach gun safety and handling in schools. I mean if it "helps" with mass shootings not to take place... TEACH IT IN SCHOOLS. Correct?

Bang on Chuck...no pun intended.*_


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck..... sorry didn't talk about the Accusition license....

I have kind of talked about that. Which in MN you are required to get before you purchase a hand gun or AR style weapon. IT IS FREE OF CHARGE and the Police Department that is handling them has 7 days to deny or accept the application. You can also fight the denial if you think it was unfair... IE: they just denied you with out a cause (which some people will argue could happen). Anyways... will the feds have enough funding to LOCAL PD to do this? Especially when some are screaming... DEFUND THE POLICE. Police, FBI, etc are already backlogged on many things because of FUNDING.

Like I mentioned with the already NICS check that happens now when you purchase a firearm is BACKLOGGED. Not enough agents to process the paperwork. Also.... WHAT IF SOMEONE LIES ON THE PAPERWORK??? You know... like the PRESIDENTS SON... Hunter Biden. This goes into how the courts DONT HAMMER PEOPLE ENOUGH!

So our court system is too soft on criminals.

So do we have a gun problem or a court system problem??? Things to think about.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck....

Back in high school for me. We had them in our vehicles so when after school we took off to go hunting. Also i think it was my So. year of school the wrestling team did a "calander" with the starting squad all on horseback and had guns...ie: think of a western style poster. That would never fly today at all.

I brought up the teaching safety in school as away to get people licensed. Do you think that the Democrats screaming for gun control and even for the "licensing" of gun owners go for it to be taught in school??? It is something to bring up when they talk about it. Ask them if it will help curb gun violence.... why not teach it at schools???? It does make sense. But I know exactly where that conversation will go...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Matthew Yglesias: The flaw in the progressive stance on guns (msn.com) 

This is a good read and shows you some of the same things I have mentioned. You know DEFUND POLICE... yet want more laws. Judges not following thru with sentencing and what not.

More laws wont matter if you dont have people to enforce them. 

Here are some "clips" from it:



> In Philadelphia, for example, progressive District Attorney Larry Krasner has deprioritized gun possession charges altogether, holding that they fuel racial disparities and mass incarceration. At the same time, national Democrats are arguing more forcefully than ever for stricter gun laws. The last time this was actually successful, back in the 1990s, it was part of a seamless web of tough-on-crime politics — the assault-weapons ban was in a comprehensive crime bill that included hiring more police officers and provisions to build more prisons and make prison sentences longer.





> Fulminating at congressional inaction in the face of spree killers may be satisfying and even necessary. But it is unlikely to persuade them to change the law. Continuing to insist on new rules while shying away from enforcing existing ones, meanwhile, burns credibility with conservative voters, who see a left that’s eager to penalize their hobby and reluctant to punish criminals.





> If progressives want to make guns harder to get but don’t want to prosecute those who have guns illegally, then … it’s almost as if they’re inviting a future in which only outlaws will have guns.


It talks about how being hard on petty crimes (shop lifting, minor drug procession, theft, counterfeit bill passing, etc) actually helps with illegal gun ownership. But think of how the dynamics have shifted when the death of Brown in Ferguson (hands up dont shoot lie) and that happened because he was disobedient for a petty crime.... Floyds death... again tragic but was because of enforcing a petty crime. Yet enforcing these crimes they find many illegal weapons. Then if the courts actually follow thru with sentencing.... guess what less illegal gun ownership.

But with what has happened the past about 3 years regarding to crime and lack of enforcement because of BLM, ANTIFA, DEFUND movements... look how crime has skyrocketed. With that you have people who see the only way to protect themselves is...GUN OWNERSHIP. 

Anyways this is an actual good read.

BTW.... Talking about gun buy back programs.... Last time a major one happened... guess what happened to those weapons... WOUND UP IN THE HANDS OF CARTELS AND CRIMINALS.... people remember operation fast and furious. It isn't just a movie title.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Another thing to discuss or think about.

I already brought up about the "age" thing. You know how some liberals last election cycle were talking about making the legal voting age to 16.

Anyways..... 18 you can vote and also go into the military. They also think that kids in elementary school should be able to choose... IF THEY WANT A SEX CHANGE. Let that sink in. Old enough to request major physical changes to your body that hasn't gone thru puberty yet... but at 18 you cant own a firearm. 

I mean honestly let all of this sink in.

Again this isn't meant at a jab at any of the people on this board who lean left or affiliate with liberal. I remember Ken talked about some of this and disagreed. But these are our elected officials who think this way.... some teachers (i am sure very few).....parents.... etc. they think that it is OK for someone who is 12 or younger to go thru sex change or have puberty blockers..... yet they can't go out and use or purchase a fire arm. They are mature enough to know what sex they want to be... but not mature enough to own a fire arm.

Anyways.... things to discuss with others and things to think about.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Some reasonable thoughts Canuck and Chuck. Canuck perhaps we debate because of a difference in the thoughts of a Canadian liberal (at least you) and some American liberals who have hijacked the democrat party. You would teach a young person to engage the safety of their 12 gauge when no shooting at game. OUR modern libers would teach them to engage the safety before using as sex toy. They really are a pack of sick puppies currently controlling the direction of our democrat party. Simply look at Chucks information about gender redirection for children. I put that right up there with Hitlers atrocities.

Please give this some seriouse thought: yes there are more guns today, but years ago nearly every home had a gun. More guns available with no restrictions yet less violence. Canuck. Chuck, and myself we all have stories of how free we were in the past and non of us would think of seriously harming anyone.

In the past we had conflicts that often ended in fisticuffs, but when that was over it was over and we didn't plan retribution. Perhaps pent up frustration is part of the problem. I remember one coach who woukd grab two boys, take them to the gym, put boxing gloves on them, and tell them get it out of your system, and when this is over its over or your out. If it was important to learned to stick up for yourself. If it was petty you learned to keep your mouth shut.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

A good little read about what I have talked about to a certain extent about how DA's and Judges are not helping the situation.

Cities with mass gun violence aren’t cracking down on gun crimes (msn.com)

Now this has been a problem for YEARS... You can't blame it on Biden. The justice system for years have been light on federal and state level gun crimes. But in this article they give recent numbers to show you. 

If Congress first wanted to actually do something... PUT PRESSURE ON JUDGES AND DA's TO GO AFTER GUN CRIMES.

Here is a good stat from the article....


> A Justice Department study published in 2019 showed that only 7% of federal prisoners who were in possession of a firearm at the time of their crimes had purchased the gun from a licensed firearm dealer. Half of federal prisoners who’d carried guns during their offenses had either stolen their firearms or bought them on the black market.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So a bill just got voted on to make it 21 to purchase AR-15's. So again... if someone isn't responsible enough to own an AR-15 at 18 years of age. Are they responsible enough to be in to the Military? Responsible enough to vote? I would even say responsible enough to drive full time? Many states have a provisional drivers license until age of 18. 18 and under licenses have certain restrictions...some are night driving, number of non family occupants, etc.

I mean honestly this is a discussion to have with people and our elected officials.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

That approach sure seems to work with training young drivers.
The gun lobby has to be seen as doing something. So do background checkers, red flaggers, social services and psychological services (not sure what you call them in the US). Everyone has to have a hand in solving the complex issues that seem to spur crazy shooters. I for one have no real ideas as to what should be done, but I know something has to be done. When people talk about defunding the police, I interpret that to mean that some of the budget being used to put cops on the street needs to be re-directed to include social and psychological practitioners working hand in hand with the cops on the street. Not taking money away from the police force.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck....

Agree about everything needs to be looked at when talking about this. My point I am making is that in one breathe people are saying someone is responsible enough to make life changing decisions or operate something that is deadly for them and others. While in the next breathe they say they are not responsible enough to own something that again is deadly. See the issue. Then they say that at a certain age they are responsible enough to elect people who make laws, policy, spending for a whole nation. It doesn't make sense.

BTW... you know someone who is 12 years old can buy a car if they have the cash. They can buy one but not use it until they are 16 and licensed. Does that even make sense. They just can't enter into a contract (loan) for anything until 18. So again... at 18 you are responsible enough for contract law but not responsible enough to own a brand of firearm. It doesn't make sense... does it???

Now you talk about red flag laws. I am back and forth on this one. The reasoning is because I have seen many vindictive people out there. Honestly look at what just was televised for everyone to see.... Depp vs Heard trial. Now I honestly think both are very toxic people. But it shows you how someone would "abuse" the system. how about someone who is "transitioning" and their parents or someone thinks it is wrong. They can go and try to file a red flag. How about if someone said.... I am going to quit my job and just travel the country in a van for awhile. Someone might think... OMG... and go file a red flag on them. Even though they might have been hating the job for years and years. You see... red flag laws are all good but could be used in a bad way.

Like I have stated.... my twin brother is handicap both physically and mentally. Now would that mean growing up if some doctor thought... well he might have a violent episode so that home better not have a firearm in it. Even though he is physically handicap a doctor could have done this. So my dad, myself and my older brother might never be able to own a fire arm. So again.... it is a fine line.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Chuck red flag laws on the surface look reasonable, but are ripe for abuse. To many people already intrude into our lives. Who decides the criteria for a red flag. Liberals shoukd be concerned too. You don't need a gun to be a danger to society. A liberal hates you and he makes an accusation. A conservative hates you and he makes an accusation. He or she may say they heard the liberal say if county commissioner X votes for Y the next time I see him on the street I am going to run over him.

I cant remember who said it but it was along the lines of " he who gives up freedom for security deserves neither". Every time the media hypes a shooting its for political reasons. They want to control every aspect of our lives, but it's easier if they disarm the peasants first. Most people have knee jerk reactions, not real solutions. Bring back peer pressure in the form of public disgrace, not trying to figure out who triggered them.

Edit: I just now received an alert that the left is bringing back the old tired lie about "cop killer bullerts". They need to decide if they love or hate cops first.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The Ruling Class' Cult of Fear


To hear the Ruling Class tell it, if Americans just give them more and more power, they will solve all of society's woes. In the wake of the tragic shooting in Uvalde, they are hyping people's fear wi




rumble.com




The only thing McConaughey got right is this should not be a partisan issue. Both parties shoukd support the second amendment. Both parties should value all human life. Both parties should support enforcing the laws we have. Both parties should be concerned about black on black murder. Both parties are negligent.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Oh well as long as I'm at it:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> Oh well as long as I'm at it:


All that just to sell some pills?
That's 13 and a half minutes I won't get back.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Try this one:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Sell some pills????????


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If people are willing to think this one will give some exercise to the ol noodle.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Go to 11:42 mark the guy starts pushing his supplement pills.
Sorry. I ain't buying it.
I saw some good, funny but sad stuff on TV today...the January 6 Hearings.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ok I went there and see he had a sponsor. Most do. Are you telling me you think the goal was to sell pills?

Have they shown video where the police moved barriers and invited people in?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Canuck I think your only watching one side of the January 6 fiasco. Can you put aside your political bias and watch information contrary to what you want to believe? Have you watched 2000 mules? I watched the liberal media.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

_"Have they shown video where the police moved barriers and invited people in? "_

You don't know? Oh yeah that's right FOX News is refusing to show the Hearings.

2000 Mules provided no real evidence to back up its many claims. They took one photograph of a "box of votes" and turned in into a total narrative. No real chain of actual evidence. I take it with a grain of salt. No proof.

Trump's own hand picked people were all trying to tell him the Big Steal was not real but he had "lost touch with reality" according to Bill Barr and instead was listening to a drunken Rudy Guilliani. Trump is now a grifter stealing donations from his supporters. It will be over when they finally come to their senses.

But you are right about one thing Plainsman ...I do not watch and believe/fall for wild conspiracy theory stories from who knows where.

And the cell phone ping data was a mole hill made into a mountain. One contractor with a bunch of trucks on the road, some with 5 people inside all with phones, was identified as a mule because of all the pings near ballot boxes on their route. He clearly stated that the data was mis-used. They had nothing to do with ballot drop-offs.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The interesting thing is Pelosi is ruling with an iron tyrannical fist. The only Republicans allowed on the panel have this test: did they vote to impeach Trump. This by any stretch of the immagination is not an investigation, its story time for the naive.

I think this whole thing now is for free screen time to throw mud because after recent elections they were taken behind the wood shed. They are soiling their pants about the fall election to come.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The Jan 6th is all political theatre and is just trying to make sure Trump isn't on the ballot come 2024.

If this was impartial it wouldn't be a 7/2 split Dem/Rep. It wouldn't have Schiff (1st impeachment manager) and Raskin (2nd impeachment manager) on this committee. Also it has been shown that during the impeachments that Schiff leaked and LIED. So if this is or was supposed to be taken seriously by everyone it would have been a better mix of members and not two people who have had it out for Trump during impeachments.

Now I will say that it is perfectly fine having a committee investigate this. But it seems they are just targeting TRUMP and Republicans.... not really looking into other things. Like who let them in? Why wasn't troops or other police present when early indications were things could turn...ie: a day or two before hand. What about others in the crowd "stirring" things up that were not republicans and what not. ETC. Everything plays a role in this.... From Trump, other elected officials, proud boys, others in the crowd, police, etc. All things need to be looked at. But the focus of this "committee" is just Trump and republicans. None of the other stuff at all.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

If I had to hazard a wild, way out there guess I would guess that the cops that opened doors and let people in were Trump supporting Republicans. Just maybe?

One thing is for sure those cops were derelict in their duty. They were sworn to serve and protect the people in the Capitol were they not?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Canuck said:


> If I had to hazard a wild, way out there guess I would guess that the cops that opened doors and let people in were Trump supporting Republicans. Just maybe?
> 
> One thing is for sure those cops were derelict in their duty. They were sworn to serve and protect the people in the Capitol were they not?


Another possibility is the cops were democrats and knew what would happen. Perhaps this is why more security was turned down. Perhaps there was also a plan to kill one of them to make things serious.

I get where your coming from about the cops. There was no good reason to pull the barriers aside and gesture welcome with their hands. They were either derelict as you say, or more likely treacherous. When barriers were set in place it makes no sense for a cop to move them. Loosing their job isn't enough criminal charges should be filed if appropriate.

For the unity of the country and to put to rest distrust they need equal number of democrats and republicans investigating. Also dont hand pick bases on hating Trump. Something went wrong and we all need to know what it was.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Also dont hand pick bases on hating Trump. Something went wrong and we all need to know what it was.


This is 100% correct.

Also this is he big issue. They are trying hard to link Trump to the riot/storming of the capital because of "words" he said in a speech. So how can Trump be guilty of all of this and not Dem's for all the BLM/ANTIFA riots. Along with what is going on now with a guy planning on killing a Supreme Court Justice, the attacks on pro life clinics and other pro life things, etc. 

Here is a quote from just the other day when Pelosi was asked about the violence going on towards pro life places...



> The speaker — a Catholic who was denied communion by the San Francisco archbishop for her abortion views — did not condemn the attacks, instead saying the politicization of the abortion issue "is uniquely American."
> "Well, let me just say this: a woman has a right to choose. To live up to her responsibility is up to her, her doctor, her family, her husband, her significant other, and her God," the speaker said.
> 
> "This talk of politicizing all of this, I think, is something uniquely American and not right," she continued. "Other countries, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, have had legislative initiatives to expand a woman’s right to choose. Very Catholic countries."


Not once did she say... DONT HARASS or STOP IT. She talks in circles. Anyways.... why are they not get investigated. You know Schummer said justices names and said THEY WILL PAY THE PRICE. Then the protests (that are illegal) outside of justices homes happened and the guy who was planning to kill one of them. I mean how is this not in the same ball park.

But then now they are shifting everything towards TRUMP THOUGHT THE ELECTION WAS STOLEN... and was trying to take steps to not "certify" it. Which others stepped up and stopped this....ie: Pence. BTW... many dems the last 3 times a Republican was elected tried or delayed certification of the election. Maxine Waters has done it each time. So you have that.

Now it seems they want to go after him for opinion and what not. He thought the election was stolen and tried to take the steps ie: investigated the fraud, had recounts, etc. Yet so far all proved not enough to actually "over turn anything"... but he still believed he was "robbed" of the election. BTW... the Russia Probe took over 2 years. The election fraud investigation was less than 2 months and then they had to certify the results. So just think about that for a few seconds.

Again.... The stuff they are bringing up on some of the Proud boys and other players.... yep go after them. But to pin all of what happened at the capital that day on TRUMP is totally political BS. He didn't draw up plans to storm the capital, he didn't storm the capital, he didn't tell people to get violent (which some dem's did during the BLM stuff... you know get in the faces, fight back, etc was the rhetoric)... etc.


Here is the big problem.... they have cried wolf so many times that people are finally seeing thru there BS. Russia (FALSE AND LIES) that was 2 years of it and some still crying out the lies. UKRAINE (FALSE AND LIES)... you know the second gotcha... but NOPE... finding out more and more it was Biden's Son doing shady stuff there. Then it was this which they brought articles of impeachment up on him for. NOW they are extending it to this Jan 6th hearings. So that is 4 times they are trying to get Trump either out of the office or make it so he cant run for the office. They are still grasping at straws for much of this.


Anyways back to gun control.... did anyone read my post in the other gun control purposal thread?? About how a big drug raid happened down in Alabama where they found 6 or 7 guns and one of them being stolen along with alot of drugs. YET NOT ONE CHARGE ABOUT A GUN IN POCESSION CHARGE. The only gun charge was "discharging a gun with in close range of a home" type thing. Yet on the law books are actual charges that have up to 5 years in prison and what not. Plus it puts a "felon" tag on all of these people. Which makes it illegal for them to have or purchase a gun. Which would come up on background checks by gun dealers. (inserted head exploding emoji)

Or the guy in CA who killed two police and had prior record and one charge that would have made it illegal for him to have a gun but the DA went for lessor charges. Hmmmm.... see a pattern for much of this gun violence in the USA. There are outliers and things that happen.... but most could have possibly been prevented if our court system would bring the hammer on sentencing.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

There is only one answer. the democrats and RINOs want to disarm American citizens so they want the violence to continue. That idea is so crazy its hard to believe, but that's what they are counting on. If they can kill 60 million babies what's the big deal about sacrificing a million or ten million adults. They have something in mind for us that requires us to be disarmed first.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Bill will allow California gun makers to be sued for negligence (msn.com) 

Well CA passed a bill to make it that any gun manufacturer in the state can be sued if their weapon was used in violence.

You do know what this will do.... GUN MANUFACTURERS WILL BE MOVING OUT OF CA. So they will lose revenue and employees. I would say come to Mn but I am sure they will be next to pass some sort of stupid law. They should go to ND or SD.


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