# when will she point?



## jer79 (Oct 12, 2004)

I recently acquired a english setter and am new to pointing dogs having owned labs previously. I have a movie and a book but they fail to mention at what age she will begin to "flash point" or lock up on items, butterflies , birds ,etc. At what age can I expect this? Also does anyone know where i could get live birds for training.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I have 2 setters and both of them were hunted behind at less than 1 year. The youngest on has the better lines and he started sight pointing at like 2 months. he also honored the others points at like 6 months with no honoring training. 
Every dog is different but i would expect something fairly young. It however isn't something you can rush.
Take a pheasent wing out on a fishing pole.
Don't go right to live birds. you might scare the dog. Use the wing every night until he locks on it hard everytime. However never let it catch the wing. If you let this happen the dog will always chase birds and not lock on them. 
My 2 cents. Everyone is different though. I was taught this by a few different field trials people and at least 2 different setter breaders.

Good luck it is always fun to here about setters so keep me posted. Any questions IM me.


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## jer79 (Oct 12, 2004)

she is 8 and a half weeks. Would the wing and pole trick work yet? Or is she too young to to expect that


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Its never to young to try. If she doesn't show interest don't push it. Just try it and if she shows interest go with it. If not than thats ok. if she likes it play for like 5 min. Don't let her loose interest. Stop BEFORE she looses interest. Otherwise she wont like the GAME. 
It NEEDS to be a GAME for a puppy.


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## khehr (Apr 23, 2006)

hi hunt4p&y has given u some good advise i have 2 setters and they both hunted at ten months and pointed. all i can say is just be patient and dont expect to much to soon. and read and watch everything u can on training and research the net thanks and good luck kevin


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

If you want some phone numbers of Setter trialers im me.

Out of curiosity where did you get the setter from?


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## jer79 (Oct 12, 2004)

Thank you. I am concerned about her because she is a very independent puppy. I understand independent can be good but about half the time she doesn't seem to care i am there and will not come when called. Im debating whether she will work out or not. I have never seen a puppy that young be so uninterested in people. She gets plenty of attention when she wants it, but most the time she just wants to do her own thing, is this normal? I still own a lab who is 11 years old and is soon to retire and she cant stand to be less than 15 feet from me when were in the house (the lab is not in the same house as the setter, she lives with my parents) so this is odd to me. And that is why I was curious when I should start expecting her to point. I hope she comes around and I am not going to give up on her yet, she is a decsendent of havelock blacksmith, so she should have good bloodlines. but like I said her lack of interest in people seems odd. Thanks.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

This is the exact same thing we went through with our 8 year old english. This perticular breed is independent. She never even cared to be pet. She would rather sit and watch birds in the yard. i would say that is actually common. She is also a female like yours. However our 3 year old male would rather have my hand perminately attached to his head. he loves attention. The female runs out of the kennel as fast as she can and watches birds cats dogs etc. till i say kennel. she then runs to the kennel and pauses. I pet her for a split second and she runs into her kennel. She however won't go into her kennel without being pet. That is just how she is and i have heard from many guys that is just the nature of that breed. 
The more attention you give her the better but this I BELIEVE isn't something to worry about. 
It may seem like she won't be loyal to you but she will be. 
Keep working on it, she will turn out great. 
This is the exact same thing i went through.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

What kennel is she out of? Im not familier with Sires name.


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## jer79 (Oct 12, 2004)

I got her from a private owner in jmst. havelock blacksmith originates from a breeder near new england, nd and was a field trial dog. who apperantly recently passed away.?.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

The exact same thing happened to me one week after i got my youngest dog the mother and 3 from his litter were hit on the highway. The seller was really mad that he gave me that dog.


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## jer79 (Oct 12, 2004)

the sire is actually three generations behind blacksmith. Thanks fellas thats very encouraging. I am somewhat relieved, i'll keep working with her and hope for the best. Thanks again.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Any more questions add more i always like talking bout setters.


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## khehr (Apr 23, 2006)

hi just a note blacksmith passed away in nov of 04 he was a great dog he has 2 hall of fame sires in his background the performer and destinare 2 more great setters. blacksmith is out of havelock kennels out by new england nd. check out their web site at esetter.com i have a male with blacksmith in his background and he is a good hunting dog but again be patient with your pup dont expect to much to soon. go to their web site and u can read all about blacksmith and havelock kennels hope some of this help kevin


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## khehr (Apr 23, 2006)

try this training video its called training setters and other continental breeds by sherry ray ebert i think it will help u alot just my 2 cent worth good luck thanks kevin


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## Benillibrother (Jan 26, 2003)

jer79, be patient, some will point at six weeks, some may take up to 3 to 4 months. One of the guys suggested the wing on a fishing pole, give that a try, the main thing is repetition, the more exposure the better. I have eight setters and the majority of them pointed early I have two at eight weeks right now and the female has been pointing for three weeks already but her brother is just beginning to show signs of point. I have mostly Havelock lines and you have tapped into some great dogs. Currently our oldest dog is a 7yr. old female daughter of Blacksmith, she is one serious hunting machine, points, backs and retrieves all naturally. All I had to do was get out and find country with pheasants and she does the rest. Also Blacksmith has THREE Hall of Fame dogs in his pedigree, The Performer, Destinare and Tomoka-whom Harold Ray says is the best dog he ever rode behind and could kick *** if he was around today. The Performer was a big powerful dog who could take alot of abuse in nasty conditions and just keep on going too. If you have any other questions I would be glad to help, either e-mail or the phone, Mark


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

She is normal all pointers are bred to be far more independent than labs on purpose. They need to hunt on their own with minimal really no direction from the hunter.

The wing and string thing is fun but I don't recommend it and its meaningless as far as any indication of pointing instinct.

Pointers can take as long as 18 months to start pointing although most are pointing by 3 months they are all different.

You shouldn't be worrying about anything a 8 week old dog does its a baby.

She will do fine read as much as you can about training pointing breeds now while she is young.

GEt yourself some curtain cord size nylon cord and a snap then make a lightweight check cord about 10-15 feet long.

Let her drag it when shes out exploring and when you want to call he make sure you have one end so you can reel her in. 
call her name and say "come"( only one time) and reel her gently in and praise her. Release her immediately so she learns that when she is called in it doesn't mean shes going back in the crate everytime that will make her more willing to respond to the "come" command

DOn't over do it, once or twice each walk is plenty.

I have 8 pointing dogs laying at my feet as I type this...IF you hunt the uplands you are really going to like this dog compared to a lab.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Bobm is right. Don't worry about the pointing yet. Also, the wing on the string is humor for us people only. It will not teach your dog anything nor will it give you any sign of the dogs ability or lack of.

As far as training birds goes....I'd start with a dead bird or a shackled pigeon or quail. Just let the dog sniff at it, get excited as the pup shows intrest. You don't want to start on big birds that may startle the youngster. I'd stay away from the wild birds for a couple months, til the pup is confident and brave around the test birds.

Tie the pigeon on a string and let the pup paw at it as you drag it around. They love that game! Once they start showing enthusiasim, let them know that pleases you. Praise them for showing interest in the birds.

After a couple months, wild birds are awesome. The pup won't catch them, pup will learn to use nose etc...no need to shoot them for the pup at 4 months though. You may have to wait til next season to hunt with the pup.

Take it slow....you'll be happy you did! If you rush too quickly, you'll only set yourself back and create problems instead of preventing them.


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## NDdoubleA77 (Oct 13, 2005)

I just got a english setter myself. He is 9 weeks old. Ch.Havelock Blacksmith was his great grandfather on sire side. I am looking for training guides and was wondering a good place to look. Which are good or bad etc. thanks


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