# KUDOS to the Cardinals



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

No, not the ball team, not in St. Louis, the guys in Rome with the funny hats.

Many said they must appoint a cardinal from Africa to show they are not racist. Others said no, no, they must appoint someone from Latin America. Still many said they must appoint a moderate that will bring the church into the 21st century. They said the church must get in touch with the real and modern world, they need to support gay marriage etc.

Well the cardinals ignored the world and did what is right. It looks like the Catholic church will not serve he!! just yet.

Is anyone else as happy as I am. And, I'm not Catholic. Hats off to the guys in the funny hats.


----------



## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

I work in an office of 12. 3 being catholic. 10 of us are with you. 1 catholic wanted the cardinal from canada. 1 atheist can't be counted.


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I believe that this is a sign of just how backwards the world has become. As opposed to appointing a moderate they have chosen a strict conservative who just happened to be in the nazi youth. Apparently people feel that if they are not the complete opposite of the spectrum that the other side will gain ground. For some reason politics these days reming me of what world war one was like. Eventually somebody will have to come back to the middle, and they will be very successful. Even conservatives in Germany (where he hails from) say that the guy if off his rocker. How anyone can expect to be respected by religons that they refuse to respect themselves is beyond me. This Pope as well as many on this board need to realize that each and ever religon is just as valid as the one you follow.



> Well the cardinals ignored the world and did what is right. It looks like the Catholic church will not serve he!! just yet.


Sometimes I wonder about you.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT wrote:


> This Pope as well as many on this board need to realize that each and ever religon is just as valid as the one you follow.


No they are not.


----------



## Ref (Jul 21, 2003)

Militan_Tiger,

You just posted on a different thread on this site that you are 16 years old. The way that you have responded showed that you know how to use words very well. But the context of your posts always left me thinking that your maturity didn't match your words. Now that I know your age, and after reading the post above mine, I am no longer going to put any validity in what you say. Like I said, you don't lack words, you lack wisdom.


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> MT wrote:
> 
> 
> > This Pope as well as many on this board need to realize that each and ever religon is just as valid as the one you follow.
> ...


Yes, they are. This is why you are a radical, you refuse to accept that other views can be correct. There is no way to prove any religon, they are all equal whether you choose to believe it or not.

Ref, somehow I feel that if I agreed with your position my level of maturity would be considerably higher in your eyes.


----------



## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

With the new pope being a close friend of the former, we can only hope that he is half the charismatic leader that his predecessor was.
Ref- MT might lack experience, but you can't say that he is letting his brain just sit there absorbing MTV! Burl


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> No they are not.





> Yes, they are.


Hey Mt, If my daddy was alive he could beat up your daddy. :rollin: :rollin:


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I'm not going to let it come to that Plainsman, I'm simply stating a fact. You cannot prove that Christianity is the correct religon, nor even that God exists. It is all a matter of faith and your faith is not worth any more than anyone elses. Every religon is perfectly equal, you need understand that.


----------



## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

The Catholic Chuch is in great hands with Pope Benedict XVI. Up until now I haven't disclosed my religious background, but feel now is a good time. I am a convert to the Catholic faith, and have spent much time learning Church doctrine. This fall I will be starting a masters program in Theology from Franciscan University in Stuebenville. The Papacy is a difficult topic for many non Catholics, as well as many Catholics. The Cardinals are led by the Holy Spirit to choose the next Vicar of Christ to lead the Church. It's isn't a popularity contest. They don't care what CNN or the Media thinks about who should be the next Pope. They don't choose a new Pope based on what is political correct, or what is popular now. Something that I must point out that many people don't understand, including many Catholics is that Church doctrine will NEVER change and can't ever change. It has been this way for over 2,000 years. The Church will never have women Priest, homosexuality will NEVER be recogonized by the Church as anything but a sin and so forth. This doesn't matter who is elected Pope, he can't change what Jesus Christ established. What has happened through the years is that a group of people want to get away from Church doctrine so they split off and start their own denomination. This is why we have so many different Christian denominations around the world.


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Actually the doctrine has changed several times, and always to suit what was popular at the time so I'm not sure what you're on about. For instance the date of Christmas was changed from its true date of Jan. 6 to December 26, such that it would negate some pagan holiday of the time.

Also I don't remember Jesus ever saying that women couldn't be preists nor that gay were bad people (correct me if I'm wrong).


----------



## sotaman (Apr 6, 2004)

MT

I will need to go home and find it but it does say in the bible that no man shall lay with a man as if it where a woman. I think that somes up the feeling about gays.


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I said I didn't believe Jesus said that, what book does it state that homosexuality is a sin in?


----------



## sotaman (Apr 6, 2004)

I can't remember right off the top of my head I will try and remember and look it up tonight.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

There are about a half dozen versus in the Bible that chastises homosexuality. The one sotaman is talking about is Leviticus 20:13


----------



## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Tiger,
I need to correct something you said and then make a few more points. First of all Christmas is on Dec. 25th not the 26th. :lol: The easiest way I have found to understand Church Doctrine is like this. You have Big "T" and little "t". The T stands for Tradition, and both can be called Church Dogma. Big "T" is Devine Law... Teachings of the Apostles, which came directly from Jesus Christ. This can't ever change, but as we understand more it can evolve. Small "t" can change over time. Examples of these would be as such.... Women can't ever be Priest because this is a Big "T". Jesus Christ in trusted the Church with the 12 Apostles of which none were women. The Trinity is a Big "T". This will never change, the Church will always teach that there is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Examples of small "t" would be allowing girl alter servers. This was unheard of until recently. This is a Church law, not a devine law. Your example of changing the date of Christmas would fall under the category of small "t".
On to the topic of homosexuality. We have covered this several times, but feel as though I need to state the truth again. No where in the Bible is homesexuality talked of in a positive loght. In fact I will name specific versus you can look up to prove my point. Genesis 19, Leviticus 18:22 (homesexuality is called an abominable deed), Romans 1:27 (homosexuality is called Perverise, unnatural and shameful) 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1 :9-10 (those who engage in homosexuality are called sinners). Other parts of the Bible talk of homesexuality in the same light as having sex with animals. I need to point out that a true Christians doesn't hate the homosexual, but hate the act. I have compassion for a homosexual, but I owe to that person to tell them the truth, not lie to them. Our society, especially the youth are bombarded with this notion that homesexuality is an alternative lifestyle that sould be accepted. Homosexuality is a sin, just like adultry, murder, stealing, and so forth.


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> First of all Christmas is on Dec. 25th not the 26th.


Aahahaha can't believe I said that. It really shows how I am with dates though, I know a total of two birthdays and I normally know the date of Christmas.

As to homosexuality, as previously stated you must understand that the Bible and holy documents have been edited over the years since their original writings to fit the will of the church. The church does not see homosexuality in a favorable light, and thus the Bible reflects their opinion. For all we know God may not care one way or the other about gays, after all he did make them. By our current standards, it is indeed a sin but to call it one akin to robbery and murder is pushing it. I'm sorry but as much as you would like to believe it homosexuality does no harm to anyone.


----------



## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

I believe the Bible was completed 3 to 400 years after Jesus walked on Earth. So the Bible that we as Catholics recognize hasn't changed, or edited as you put it. The early Church Fathers all viewed homosexuality as a sin. The Holy Bible was written by people who were inspiried by the Holy Spirit. The Gospels were the word of God. So we know that God was definantly against homosexuality. So this notion that he was indifferent is totally inaccurate. We as people are all made with original sin. This means that we are all going to have our faults and issues, but we need to strive to be like Christ. Some people are going to struggle with alcoholism, drugs, purity, lieing, and homosexuality, to name a few. But we must try as hard as we can to not fall into these sins. To say to a homosexual, it's o.k. go ahead live this lifestyle, is like telling an alcoholic to continue to get drunk everynight, because it's o.k. Instead we should try and help the alocholic to sober up and live a more fruitful lifestyle. He might still be tempted to drink, but he can't give in and drink. We should encourage a homosexual to not act on his or her temptations, but rather live a celibate life, and stay away from sin. Homosexuality or any sin for that matter does hurt us all. There are consequences for all sin, and many times they hurt others besides ourself.


----------



## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Nice spin Mt, what you want is the bible to suit your version therefore their would be no sin. I think Pope Benedict will be absolutely excellent in his position, he will stick to the original intent of the bible and not allow people such as Mt to change the definitions of what God meant.


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

racer66 said:


> Nice spin Mt, what you want is the bible to suit your version therefore their would be no sin. I think Pope Benedict will be absolutely excellent in his position, he will stick to the original intent of the bible and not allow people such as Mt to change the definitions of what God meant.


The gospels were written by humans, humans often have their own opinion on matters. Parchance if they didn't see something fit they changed it. We do not know, and none of us will until death.

How exactly does homosexuality hurt us all? If it is something practiced behind closed doors it affects no one but the gays themselves.


----------



## sotaman (Apr 6, 2004)

MT

In my opinion that is the problem with gays. They can't just leave it behind close doors. It seems a percent want to contuniely throw there life styles in are face. In most regards I agree with the military policey on this subject don't ask don't tell. What you do is your buisness not mine keep it that way. The maker will determine which place we wind up in the end. It is called faith..


----------



## IAHunter (Sep 1, 2003)

There were actually 19 disciples, 7 of them being woman. Mary Madalene was one of the top disciples. Is this in the Bible? Not in the shortend King James version. Peter, the founder of the the Catholic religion I believe, was the originator of there being no women teaching the religion. To quantify my statements, I am not Catholic nor a theology student.

IaHunter


----------



## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

IAHunter,
I think you are mistaking "Da Vinci Code" as real Theology. Dan Brown's book is complete fiction. There were only 12 Apostles in the Bible and none of them were women. This has been the teachings of the Church for the last 2,000 years. You are also mistaken about Peter being the founder of the Catholic Church. Jesus Christ was the founder of the Catholic Church. Peter was chosen by Jesus to be the Vicar of Christ on Earth after Jesus was crucified. 
Read Mathew 16:18, "And I also say unto thee, that thou art Peter, and upon this *Rock* I will build the Church, and the gates of Hades (Hell) shall not prevail against it."
Women can teach the Catholic faith and many do, but they can never be ordained a Priest, or Deacon. This goes back to the Apostolic Tradition of the first 12 men Apostles. We are all called to be disciples of Christ, man or women. There is a difference between the words, Apostles and disciples.


----------



## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Militant_Tiger said:


> This Pope as well as many on this board need to realize that each and ever religon is just as valid as the one you follow.


im sorry, but that statement is against my religion. You see, i am just a servant, and my master says that people who dont believe that He is the Son of God WILL go to hell.

You can tell me to step aside for other religions, and that i need to treat them equaly, but i cant. you see, its simply against my religion; and any attempts to make me do otherwise is religions persecution. :thumb:

Have a nice night.


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

mr.trooper said:


> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> > This Pope as well as many on this board need to realize that each and ever religon is just as valid as the one you follow.
> ...


So if I made a religon that said that I am the king of the world it would be more valid than yours because I believe it? You cannot see your religon as mightier on the basis of religon. Christianity is not better because it is not proven, for all we know buddhism might be the "right" religon, you should treat it with respect until you know for sure :wink:


----------



## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> for all we know buddhism might be the "right" religon,


Problem is and not that it really matters, Buddhism is not a religion.


----------



## IAHunter (Sep 1, 2003)

Storm

Ahhh, the "Da Vinci Code". Didn't read it. Did read the other book, can't remember its name. Dan Brown is a real good fiction writer, note the fiction part. I do not take information from books of fiction. I read articles and watch informative programs. Especially from sources that might be opposites of my beliefs. I will not plug my ears, becuase, in my mind and heart, I feel God gave us the capability of reason and judgement for a purpose. And, please, don't ever assume that I'm such an idiot as to believe fictional drivel. I consider it to be a slam to what little intelligence I have.

The "bible" as you know it is not the complete bible. As I stated earlier, it is the condensed version with the vast majority of the books left out by the Catholic Church. Do you know what information is in these omitted books? If these books have the information of the other 7 disciples, as the people who study them say they do, which version do you believe? Why did the Catholic church call Mary Magdelene a prostitute, when at no time in the new testatiment does it state that? She was one of the important people within Jesus' close circle. Was she at the Last Supper? I don't know. Is she in Da Vinci's painting. Haven't been to the Sistine Chapel to take a close look. Does the fact that the condensed, Catholic Church ordained, bible not mention women disciples make it a fact. NO. NO. And.... NO!!!!

I would hate to think that you believed you knew everything about Jesus when you have only 10% of the facts at your finger tips. Not saying you shouldn't be a believer.

Lastly, if Jesus is the founder of the Catholic religion, then doesn't that make all Protestants blasphamers? Double jeapordy here. Did he or didn't he? Alot of christians going to hell, which is the opposite of Jesus' teachings, or following the true path of Jesus. Which way shall we go. Personally, I don't know. I don't know if Jesus was, or is or whatever, the True Son of God. I'm still using the grey matter that God gave me. I guess the only true answers will come when my time comes, until then I keep searching.

IaHunter


----------



## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

I was raised Roman Catholic ,and all I know is , May I be in Heavan a half hour before the Devil knows Im dead  This religon is like the Marine Core of religions.


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Gohon said:


> > for all we know buddhism might be the "right" religon,
> 
> 
> Problem is and not that it really matters, Buddhism is not a religion.


dictionary.com says

"The religion represented by the many groups, especially numerous in Asia, that profess varying forms of this doctrine and that venerate Buddha. "

I'll bite what do you mean?


----------



## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

IAHunter,
The Da Vinci Code has been a hot topic lately, and unfortunantly many people are under the belief that this is fact. I wrongly assumed that you were in that category, sorry about that. You are right I don't know everything about Jesus or the Church and never will. I am however trying to learn as much as I can. You are also right that God gave us the capability to reason. He also gave us a free will so that we can choose who and what we wish to follow. Free will allows us the chance at Heaven, and also will damn some to Hell.
I would caution you about what sources you choose to get your information from. The Catholic Church traces is roots back 2,000 years to the time of Jesus Christ. This is a fact and no one can disputes this. Peter was the first Pope. This is the same Peter that walked with Jesus. We just elected a new Pope and he filled the seat of Peter, who is intrusted by Jesus to lead the Church on Earth( Mathew 16:18-19). I would much rather trust the Vatican and Catholic Church with teaching correct Theology, than some person on the History channel or Time magazine who wished to rewrite Theology.
You are also right about the Catholic Church refering to Mary Magdelene as a prostitute. This is tradition passed down and it won't be found in the Bible. The Catholic Church has never taught Solar Scriptora, (which means Theology based on the Bible alone). You also won't find in the Bible any place that states that we should base our faith purely on Solar Scriptora, but I can give you several references in the Bible that talk of the Bible plus Tradition. (1 Cor. 11:2, 2 thes 2:15, 2 Thes 3:6. etc...). This is a difference between Protestant and Catholics. I believe that Mary Magdelene was an important person to Jesus. Jesus picked many sinners to be his disciples, and Apostles. Paul was a murderer. Peter denied Jesus three times, others were tax collectors and so forth. You are right we can't know everything from the Bible, so thank goodness we have Tradition.
Jesus is the founder of the Catholic religion. This is the only Church that can trace its roots to the time of Chirst that teaches Christianity. Mathew 16:18-19 tells of Peter being the Rock I will build my Church on. No this doesn't make Protestants blasphamers. Christ is present in the Protestant faiths and many good Protestants will go to Heaven. But the facts speak for themselves. The word Protestant comes from the word "Protest". The Protestant Reformation started 500 years ago with Martin Luther who was a Catholic Priest who decided to split off and do his own thing. Yes, there were abuses with the Catholic Church, but instead of working within the Church to correct these abuses Luther decided to rewrite Theology. No we have thousands of different Christian denominations that all teach different things. What's the truth? Some Churchs teach that abortion is o.k., some teach now that Homosexuality is o.k. The bottom line is where is the authority? Jesus didn't leave us here with out any direction. He left us here with a Church. You can trace that Church back to Rome.


----------



## IAHunter (Sep 1, 2003)

Thank you, Storm. Alot of info to look up and think over.

IaHunter


----------



## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> but instead of working within the Church to correct these abuses Luther decided to rewrite Theology.


Just out of curiosity, what would be a few major things that Martin Luther rewrote that would be very different from the Catholic doctrine? Also, the movie about Martin Luther ................ I've never seen it because I figured it would be to Hollywood, but have you seen it and is it for the most part accurate or as I figured mostly fiction?


----------



## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

I never did see the movie about Martin Luther, so I really can't comment on how accurate it is. Like you I have my doubts about Hollywood. I myself grew up a Protestant and my family are still Protestants. When I was thinking about conveting to Catholicism I did some study on Martin Luther. Martin Luther's biggest difference with Catholic Theology was how we are saved. Luther decided that we are saved by Faith alone, and tried to do this by pointing to a few verses in the book of Romans. Luther also decided to remove certain books from the Bible that didn't fit his Theology. That is why if you pick up a Catholic Bible such as the American Standard Bible you will find more books in it than the King James Version. The Catholic Church had always taught and still does that we are saved by Faith and Works. This is easily found in the book of James. In fact read James 2:24 *"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not faith only.*" Luther tried very hard to remove the book of James from the Bible but wasn't quite successful. Later on certain groups would split off from Luthers teaching and form their own Church. Luther split off from the Catholic Church around 1550, later King Henry VIII slpit off forming the Episcopal Church, then came the Baptist, Methodist and so on. Now there are over 28,000 different denominations around the world.


----------

