# Buying an AR-15



## peefyloo (Jul 19, 2007)

Well...not buying one yet. Still a few questions and things to think about.

Well...is it better to by separate lowers and uppers? Or can I buy a complete rifle? Or can someone point me in the direction of a company that does custom rifles?

I'm looking for them in 6.5 Grendel.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

Les Baer adds the custom gun element, and they sell the complete 6.5 Grendel. I'm no AR-15 expert, but I know that I've always heard great things about Les Baer.


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## szm69 (Apr 28, 2006)

I have a custom 25 WSSM AR-15 built by Mike Milli, Dedicated Technology, out of Bemiji MN.

It is awesome, and it cost way less than a POS Colt.


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

Hello everyone,

I too have just started looking. Went to the best Gun Shop in the
world (1st Stop Gun Shop, Rapid City SD).

They had a good selection and we went through them.

There is now a High Standard M4 (action rough as hell)(basically what
I was looking for), Bushmasters (smoothest action, the best) and
a Smith & Wesson (smoothest action also).

Didn't realize there are so many options.

Colts are of their own, meaning it is hard to accessorize and change
uppers and lowers (take down pins have to be the same).

Any way good luck. I'm still going to keep watching for the best price.
See Yeaw.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Bushmasters are the schizzle.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I just ordered a flattop DPMS Panther Bull 20 myself. The only options I purchased was a JP trigger, tactical grip, and a triple riser for light and laser. I ordered a dedicated case, and a five round clip to be legal during deer season. I might have to use a Barnes X bullet for one of my doe tags.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Plainsman I'm pretty sure you can hunt deer with a 30 round clip if you really wanted too. Unless it has changed and I am unaware of it.

Triple riser for light and laser? I would suggest one of these to put the "goodies" on.

ttp://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactica ... .bok?no=46

Mine is going to have one sooner or later. Amoung other "things." 8)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention a great aftermarket trigger. A lot of guys are using it. I have never pulled one.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactic ... bok?no=112

Not sure if I'm going to go with it though. My trigger is ok. Nothing great but ok for an AR. We'll see I guess.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't know much about AR's I just thought I should get one while I still can. I hope the adjustable JP trigger will be ok. I noticed on another thread I just wasted $25 getting a five shot clip. Oh, well, it isn't the first $25 I have wasted and perhaps not the last.
I couldn't bring up the site with the attachment methods. I think I will buy a gas block that has mounting capability also. I perhaps will put nothing on it, I just want it to have the capability. I do have a very good laser just kicking around that I don't use I can perhaps mount that just for the cosmetics. Things like that are puuuuuuurdy you know. 
Three month wait I guess. 
They said I needed a riser to get the scope higher. It was only (perhaps another wasted $25) a little more to get a riser that looked like a picatinny rail on top, left, and right.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Plainsman,

The link was to Larue Tactical. IMO they are the premiere company for AR accessories. Them or Vltor Weapons Systems. I don't know why my links don't work sometimes, do a search on both of these and you'll see what I'm talking about.

You don't need risers. Badger Ordnance makes an extra high ring that measures 1.40, the same height as standard irons. Badger rings are some of the best rings out there and I prefer them over risers.

I wouldn't mount anything with a gas block mount. Look for a railed forearm such LaRue's. Personally, I wouldn't go with anything but LaRue. IMO, anything from the mfg. is over priced and cheesy compaired to a lot of the after market companies.

I'll post pics. of my baby once she's all together. :beer:


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

5 or 10 shot clips make for much nicer shooting from the bench, well worth $25.

A steel riser and Leupold PRW's are still half what Badger rings cost. PRW's are tough to beat.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Horsager said:


> 5 or 10 shot clips make for much nicer shooting from the bench, well worth $25.


Not to mention out the window........... :gag:

Price is not a consideration IMO. A guy may just have to save a bit longer is all. Extra, extra super secret hermit mode! :lol:


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

Good morning everyone,

Just an update to my last reply about the High Standard HSAR15 M4.

Couldn't believe working the action could be rough as hell (this weapon
is brand new, made to Mil specs), so I went back to the greatest gun shop
in the world.

One of the owners started talking to me and I asked about the HS again.
I asked if we could opened it up and look why it is so rough.

The buffer spring worked as it should (my Army back ground) but when
we took the bolt out.....the charging handle had a wear mark by the T 
and the bolt was very very dry. After lubing every thing up...
the High Standard worked very smoothly.

I'm not much on Military style rifles (I actually dispise them)
but for the money, the High Standard name (they use to make the 
world's best target pistols), their American owned and made,
how well it appears to be made and now I'm shopping around for one,
I leaning that way.

I like the Smith & Wesson AR15 M4 (since about all my hand guns are
S&W) but the High Standard I wouldn't feel that I have to be so careful
with it (maybe paint it urban camo like on the movie The Shooter)

Oh well, we'll see, still looking and considering all the options.


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## toby (Sep 27, 2007)

peefyloo said:


> Well...not buying one yet. Still a few questions and things to think about.
> 
> Well...is it better to by separate lowers and uppers? Or can I buy a complete rifle? Or can someone point me in the direction of a company that does custom rifles?
> 
> I'm looking for them in 6.5 Grendel.


dont fool around buy a dpms i own two panther bull 24's and they shoot outstanding , the factory is in st. cloud ,mn and if you have a problem or question they are super. i use them both for paper targets and prairie dogs.


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## toby (Sep 27, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> I just ordered a flattop DPMS Panther Bull 20 myself. The only options I purchased was a JP trigger, tactical grip, and a triple riser for light and laser. I ordered a dedicated case, and a five round clip to be legal during deer season. I might have to use a Barnes X bullet for one of my doe tags.


you will love the dpms i have two of the panther bull 24's with jp triggers both triggers check at 3 1/2 pounds and that is excellent for a semi auto rifle. with bench rest bipods and nikon 6x20x44 scope the rifle weighs 12 lbs. a great bench rifle. if you reload use hard primer cups to prevent slam fires. like remington 7 1/2 bench rest primers they are .025 thick while most others are .020 thick. and be sure the primers are seated all the way in if they are flush or sticking up a little you are asking for a slam fire as the firing pin is a floating pin and centrifugal force forces the pin into the primer when the bolt slams shut, to prove that just unload a live round carefully at the range and look at the primer cup and you will see what i mean. also ww 748 powder is probably the best 223 powder out there for accuracy but it burns dirty and i am finding the varget and benchmark powders burn extremely clean and they are excellent powders for that rifle.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Jiffy, you might like this. I replaced the gas block with a quad mount gas block. I have a trimount picatinny rail, but I needed more room to mount toys. What other toys can I get besides a telescoping stock with accessory mount and battery storage?


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## toby (Sep 27, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> Jiffy, you might like this. I replaced the gas block with a quad mount gas block. I have a trimount picatinny rail, but I needed more room to mount toys. What other toys can I get besides a telescoping stock with accessory mount and battery storage?


jeepers/ wow/ looks great/ kinda spooky, dpms has a great catalog out and you will get one when the rifle comes in and if not you will get one as soon as you fill out the warranty and send it in. also you may get a free one year subscription to guns magazine , i got a gift from dpms for the panther bull 24 that i bought about 10 months ago and and i am wondering what i will get as a gift from them with the purchase of the other panther bull 24 that i bought about 3 weeks ag0. if i am not mistaken you can mount a movie camera on the rail which would be great to film a prairie dog shoot. go to dpms web site and take a look at their video of their torture test they put the dpms ar15 thru they just fired 10,000 rounds thru one of their rifles continuous non stop with no failures of any kind!!!!!!!!!! believe me you are really going to like it with the jp trigger. the best part is the price it is 300 to 400 dollars cheaper than the same rifle that bushmaster or anyother ar company has for price and the quality is supurb. also the factory is just next door . next summer i plan on going up to st cloud mn. and go thru their plant. i feel i am part owner now owning 2 of there rifles. the bull barrel is 1.1 inches in diameter. both my remington vssf 22 250 heavy barrels are only approx 3/4 inch. dpms also has an online catalog and store. i have worked up a load with benchmark and varget for 50 and 55 grain noslers bt for both the 223's and the remington vssf's. my favorite is the ww 748 which is the best most accurate 223 powder but it is just too dirty burning for the ar's so i switched to the hogdons extreme powders they burn extremely clean. the varget shoots great in the ar's and the benchmark is outstanding in the 22 250's . years ago when i shot a lot of bench rest shooting 34.8 grains of ww748 at 3450fps in the 22 250 with a lite trigger of 32 oz i could shoot holes in holes at 100 yards with a vssf rifle. constantly it was crazy. the benchmark load in my 22 250 is a hole in hole load but i am older now and dont do benchshooting much.i havent shot any holes in holes with the benchmark but looking at the targets i have shot i can tell that it is a hole in hole load . other than working up loads and zero scopes in my main thing is now for the last 18 years is prairie dog shoots in south dakota as well as shooting jack rabbits which is more fun and calling cyotoes all in the 5 days we spend there in the spring. getting the itch??? see ya down the trail.


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## toby (Sep 27, 2007)

toby said:


> peefyloo said:
> 
> 
> > Well...not buying one yet. Still a few questions and things to think about.
> ...


when you buy an ar15 buy the complete rifle in a 1-9 twist it is cheaper that way , it will shoot 50 grain or 55 grain bullets very accurately, with no problems. if you buy a bigger bore ar15 then you will have to figure out what riflings you want in the rifle barrel. for the heavier bullets.


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## toby (Sep 27, 2007)

toby said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > I just ordered a flattop DPMS Panther Bull 20 myself. The only options I purchased was a JP trigger, tactical grip, and a triple riser for light and laser. I ordered a dedicated case, and a five round clip to be legal during deer season. I might have to use a Barnes X bullet for one of my doe tags.
> ...


in addition i used to use 5 round clips but now i use 10 round clips , i dont need anything more than that for shooting off the bench . also on the scope mounts i use b- square mounts the mount and rings are one assembly and once you get zeroed in you can remove the scope and mount assembly together and reassemble later and your zero will still be there its great. thats all for tonigt.


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## darkgael (Feb 10, 2006)

All this talk about an Ar-15 in 6.5 Grendel has me thinking about the possibility of adding an upper to my rifle (or the 450 Bushmaster or the 6.8 Rem SPC) but then....
"Plainsman I'm pretty sure you can hunt deer with a 30 round clip if you really wanted too. Unless it has changed and I am unaware of it."
Yeah, where you live maybe. Here in Pennsylvania it is illegal to hunt with a semi-auto rifle or pistol. So...I keep that upper on the wish list.
Pete


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

darkgael said:


> Yeah, where you live maybe. Here in Pennsylvania it is illegal to hunt with a semi-auto rifle or pistol. So...I keep that upper on the wish list.
> Pete


Pensiltucky's "no semi-auto hunting rifles law" was the catalyst for Browning to engineer a pump rifle off of their BAR. The BPR. That model didn't last long.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Plainsman,

You need one of these: http://www.trijicon-inc.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=13

Toby are you from Fargo? If so do you work at Sportmans Warehouse? Just wondering.


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## darkgael (Feb 10, 2006)

I use those small reflex sights on my Bullseye guns. They are marvelous - light and durable.
I also like Trijicon's Dual Illumination reflex sight with the amber triangle/dot, no batteries - works like a charm. Their ACOG has the clearest image I've yet seen in a scope.
Pete


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> also on the scope mounts i use b- square mounts the mount and rings are one assembly and once you get zeroed in you can remove the scope and mount assembly together and reassemble later and your zero will still be there its great.


The DPMD riser that I purchsed has a picatinny rail on the top, and sort of the same on both sides. A few less cross slots. However, it attaches with a wheel in front and in back and can be removed in seconds. It attaches as quickly and maintains zero, within a half inch at 100 yards. It has made me think about one of those sights like Jiffy is talking about. However, I have seen those sites mounted sideways on the gas block. Hmmmm.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

I have been shooting a DPMS Panther Bull 20 for a few months now. Mine is the Fluted Barrel version.

I have found both 40 & 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips to shoot nice groups out of my Rifle (as well as 55gr. Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tails). With the 40gr'rs I have been using Hodgdon BENCHMARK, while for the 55gr'rs I have been using Hodgdon H-4895.

Every time I take this rifle to the range I am impressed all over again. I too purchased this Rifle from Mike Milli, Dedicated Techonolgy in Bemidji Minnesota. Prior to sending lower to my FFL Dealer Mike smoothed up the trigger, and did a great job. It still has a little more engagement than I prefer, but it is smooth. I recently ordered a Reduced Power JP Enterprises Recoil / Trigger Spring Kit. From what I have read on a few sites this spring kit will lower the trigger pull to about half of what it was perviously.

All in all I am sure pleased with my DPMS Panther Bull 20 Fluted. I am using the Armalite One Piece Scope Mount. This mount is a little lower than most and puts the scope at exactly the right height above the bore for me. For magazines I am using C Products. I purchased 5 - 20 rounders when I purchased the Rifle and recently purchased 2 - 5 rounders so it is legal in South Dakota to use for Deer Hunting. With shipping the 5 rounders cost me 2/3 of the amount I paid for the 5 - 20 rounders. Oh well.

The one other modification I did was to cut the sling loop off of the buttstock of the rifle. I then took the part of the sling loop that goes inside of the stock, cut a slot in it and welded in a Uncle Mikes Quick Detachable Sling Swivel Stud. This interfiers less with the rear sand bags when bench shooting and also allows me to share the same sling with my other rifles.

I too am quite sure you will really like your DPMS Panther Bull 20.

Larry


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Speaking of triggers does anyone have any experience or know anything about this one: http://www.m2tactical.com/p-657-timney-ar-15-drop-in-trigger.aspx

Horsager do you have a JP trigger in yours? I can't remember.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Oh yeah, I just found it. It was The Norseman that mentioned this trigger. Care to expand on it any Norseman. I'd like to know more.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

JP in both DPMS's.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Plainsman, This is what you need for that new riffle of yours.



















Tactical espresso machine.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

huntin1


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Looks good to me huntin1, but to much caffein and I can't shoot.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

Where do you put the batteries for the coffee maker?


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## toby (Sep 27, 2007)

Jiffy said:


> Plainsman,
> 
> You need one of these: http://www.trijicon-inc.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=13
> 
> Toby are you from Fargo? If so do you work at Sportmans Warehouse? Just wondering.


JIFFY I AM AN OLD VIETNAM VET FROM THE FIRST INFANTRY DIVISION THAT USED TO USE A CRAPPY OLD M16, BUT LET ME TELL YOU TODAYS AR15'S SHOOT LIKE A BOLT ACTION FOR ACCURACY!!!!NO I LIVE IN NORTHERN IOWA NEAR MASON CITY IOWA AND AUSTIN MN. I AM SEMI RETIRED RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT UNTIL I FIGURE OUT WHAT I AM GOING TO DO , I AM A YEAR AND A HALF FROM RETIREMENT SO I AM NOT IN A BIG HURRAY TO GET BACK TO WORK I HAVE BEEN LAID OFF FOR THE LAST 6 MONTHS FROM THE AUTO INDUSTRY AND I REALLY DONT WANT TO GO BACK TO WORK BECAUSE OF MY AGE. SO I HAVE A LOT OF TIME ON THE RIFLE RANGE FOR A CHANGE. I LOVE MY TWO DPMS PANTHER BULL 24'S AND I HAVE ALSO TWO VSSF REMINGTONS IN THE 22 250'S MY MAIN GOAL IS TO MAKE IT TO SOUTH DAKOTA EVERY SPRING FOR THE BIG DOG SHOOT, AND I MIGHT ADD JACKRABBITS AS WELL . WE FOOL AROUND WITH THE CYOTOES TOO. WE USED TO CALL THEM BUT THEY GOT SMART NOW WE JUST THROW AN EXTRA STEAK NEAR OUR TENT AND HALF HOUR LATER THEY ALL COME INTO GET IT, ITS CRAZY. WE HAD 8 CYOTOES COME IN THE FIRST NIGHT IT WAS UNREAL. TOBY WAS MY DOGS NAME THAT I AM USING HERE. NICE TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO ALL YOU GUYS


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Toby, I think you and I will get along just fine. 8)

Except you don't need to yell at me. I think you may have hurt my feelings a bit. You know I am a bit timid and I tend to get sand in my ****. :wink:

Welcome to Nodak man. Even if your are an "Army dog." :beer:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Oh yeah, Rob you smoking crack on duty or something? I thought you only did that on YOUR time. SLACKER! :wink: :beer:

Tactical espresso machine......funny it didn't have a donut dispenser on it!


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Jiffy said:


> Oh yeah, Rob you smoking crack on duty or something? I thought you only did that on YOUR time. SLACKER! :wink: :beer:
> 
> Tactical espresso machine......funny it didn't have a donut dispenser on it!


HA!

The donut dispenser is still in the R&D stage. 

:beer:

huntin1


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Aaahhh. :lol:


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## toby (Sep 27, 2007)

Jiffy said:


> Toby, I think you and I will get along just fine. 8)
> 
> Except you don't need to yell at me. I think you may have hurt my feelings a bit. You know I am a bit timid and I tend to get sand in my cl*t. :wink:
> 
> Welcome to Nodak man. Even if your are an "Army dog." :beer:


jiffy sorry about the yelling online i guess that that is a bad habbit of mine using capital letters all the time i hate to use the shift key so i will just use little letters. i stumbled on this site by accident and finding it is fun to participate.


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