# buy a live coyote



## falconryman

anyone know where to buy a live coyote


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## stainless

I know Im getting desperate to shoot my first coyote but I think this is going to far.....lol


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## falconryman

yes i do want to shoot one. but i want this one for a pet/hunting dog


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## Bloodyblinddoors

Hunting dog? That's an interesting idea. I kinda like it. I think it might be hard to train one though. Not to hunt, thats instinct, but to train it to listen would be tough I think. 
I've always thought having a coyote for a pet would be cool. Let us know what you find out.


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## falconryman

hey bloody... weasls414 talks about you a lot i hunt with him. but i am looking for a place that i can buy them from.


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## huntinguy

Coyotes can not be domesticated. They get pretty mental in captivity.


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## fingerz42

A first generation coyote could not be tamed. I read where these people have generation over generation kept foxes around and by the 40th generation they are just as dogs, they dont have aggression and they are very well behaved.The coyote idea would not work for first generations.. pry wouldnt be good for the first ten years really.. it would take a while to get a coyote to be tamed..


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## falconryman

i know thats why i what to breed them the licens only cost 11 bucks


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## Danny B

I just happen to have live coyotes for sale. How much money do you have?


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## R Buker

Danny,

Be nice.

:lol:


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## weasle414

Danny, I got about 78 cents, how many coyotes can I get?


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## Fallguy

If you are looking to buy a live coyote this is not the place to do that. I have no idea where you would look. Sorry.

There are accounts of people having fox and coyotes as pets. I would guess the vast majority of attempts would fail. Remember these are wild animals. I am not saying it isn't possible though.


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## MossyMO

A coyote can be domesticaticated if it has been taken from the den before its eyes have opened and it is treated, fed and "loved"as a "pet". If you have thoughts of doing this for a possible decoy; you are wrong. Think about it, set your cat or dog out there and expect it to stay while you are calling.....

If you want a coyote as a pet that you took from the wild, keep it that way; from the wild. If it was born wild, do not attempt to reintroduce it and expect your new found pet to decoy for you. It will have natures that are in its blood to return.


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## fingerz42

The "before its eyes open" thing to me is bogus. it dont matter when you get the thing, even if its before it opens its eyes. They are a wild blooded animal. Think of it in Beagles bloodlines. People pay HUGE $$$ for a bloodline from a great dog back in the day. Their are 2 or 3 incredibly famous bloodlines that everyone wants their dog to come from. Why? Just because of what its predecessors did and the bloodline it had. Now take this to our coyote situation, it dont matter when you take that animal it IS going to be a wild animal. One generation cant be turned into a fully domestic animal. It just isnt possible. Your just doing WAY to much reversing of nature to accomplish your goal in the first generation.


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## fingerz42

Furthermore, the beagle bloodlines allow for the beagles to be born and basically just KNOW they are supposed to hunt rabbits and hunt them well. It doesnt even need be taught all that well or that much. They live to hunt and they usually WANT to do it. It isnt something that HAS to be taught, its just inside of them from birth. Likewise to the yotes, the wild is in them from birth. And they have bloodlines that say hey, we're yotes, not domesticated animals.


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## falconryman

Danny B said:


> I just happen to have live coyotes for sale. How much money do you have?


i have 80 dollars i could srape up some more if need be. and is it legal for you to sell to me? lets keep talking i want one even if it is a challenge. :lol:


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## R Buker

You'd best go get your gamefarm license from Minnesota before you start bidding on any of Danny's coyotes. I'm sure once you prove that you have the proper facilities, a vet contracted to take care of the critter and following an inspection from the DNR, you'll have your permit in plenty of time for Danny to line you up with a pretty little coyote.


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## Danny B

Yeah.


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## younghunter

get them out of the den when pups nd they will be domisicated over time.. buddy of my uncle had one died couple years back best bird ever sence didnt point but boy it never loss a bird.......


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## fingerz42

dont believe it.


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## neb_bo

fingerz, your confusing instinct with wildness. if an animal opens its eyes to find a human feeding and caring for it, its going to trust and respect that species. bloodlines arent only instinct, but physical, and intellectual traits that the animal will exhibit. ive had pet squirrels, known several people who had pet *****, cottontail rabbits, and heard of pet foxes. the bear guy in alaska had that fox that would play with him. born and raised wild, but it didnt have any reason not to trust a human, and he treated it well, so it trusted him.


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## Fallguy

neb_bo said:


> the bear guy in alaska had that fox that would play with him. born and raised wild, but it didnt have any reason not to trust a human, and he treated it well, so it trusted him.


And then he was eaten alive by a bear.


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## Plainsman

A Native American neighbor of mine on the Spirit Lake Nation (many years ago) had a pet coyote. They couldn't figure out where all their domestic geese were going until one warm day a not so pleasant smell erupted from beneath their redwood deck. Yup, Wolfy had a stash.
Getting any animal when it's eyes are closed doesn't guarantee you anything, but it does give you a better chances. Animal behaviorists refer to what you fellows are talking about as imprinting. It is a well established fact. In some animals it is greater than in others. For example I have raised thousands of ducks and giant Canada geese. After about a week the ducks will trample each other trying to get away from you. The geese will trample each other trying to get to you. 
As a child I had two raccoons. One was killed by a combine at five years old, and the other run over at eleven years old. The male was always a little rough, but the female was as gentle as any domestic pet. Individual animal behavior will have a lot to do with how successful you would be with a coyote. Individual behavior of the coyote, and you. 
Grizzly man was not a biologist, or anyone to emulate. He was a bunny hugging psyco, with only a fragment of science for his ranting. The Forest Service that he hated so much must follow rules established through our Washington representation. Demonizing them will do no good, he should have started through the political process. It was easy to see why he didn't , his personality would have gotten him nowhere. Can you see him testifying befoe congress? It would be: you *&^ %$%# *&&^ ^%!!!!!!


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## falconryman

R Buker said:


> You'd best go get your gamefarm license from Minnesota before you start bidding on any of Danny's coyotes. I'm sure once you prove that you have the proper facilities, a vet contracted to take care of the critter and following an inspection from the DNR, you'll have your permit in plenty of time for Danny to line you up with a pretty little coyote.


just to let you know in MN you only need a game farm liceaseif you are going to breed them or have more than one so i still can buy one without a licease. i still have 80 bucks is that enough.


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## Bloodyblinddoors

Micheal. Are you prepaired to drive all the way to New Mexico to pick it up?


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## fingerz42

Nebo_bo.. you are confused I think.. Okay I am confusing instict with wild? When a coyote is born, its INSTINCTS tell it to be WILD.. You arent going to persuade me to believe if you get a coyote "before its eyes open" that it will be as domesticated as a dog.. listen to how dumb that really sounds.. Hey as long as you got it before its eyes opened.. you might as well breast feed it, i've heard thats how you truly domesticate a coyote. 
You got it twisted neb..


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## Danny B

R Buker, I'm being nice. :lol: Except for the Native American remark, I was born here too. That makes me a Native American don't it? :roll:


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## Plainsman

> I was born here too. That makes me a Native American don't it?


Yup, that's how I look at it. This is am awfully old continent, and in geologic time some just got here a couple of seconds ahead of others. I am curious about the remark you didn't think was kind. Just curious, I really doubt I would find it offensive.


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## Danny B

Plainsman, nothing offensive was ment, just the facts. If you were born in this country you are a Native American. :beer: 
Maybe I could have said it in a better way, sorry. Color or race should have nothing to do with being American, but somehow our Government wants to make it that way.
Getting back to young pup coyotes. I'll sell the ones I have for $500 each, but you got to go down the hole to get em. :lol:


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## R Buker

Guys,

Be careful of Danny's offer. While I believe him and trust him, the thing he's not telling you and that you have to keep in mind is that he's selling NEW MEXICO coyotes. These are southern coyotes and they won't do well in Minnesota or ND. It simply gets too cold up here.

Have you ever seen those scrubby little varmints?

:beer:


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## falconryman

Bloodyblinddoors said:


> Micheal. Are you prepaired to drive all the way to New Mexico to pick it up?


thats a bommer theirs no way i could drive out their and you couldn't ship could you. man i really wanted a coyote


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## falconryman

how much would you have me pay. do you now of any one thats sells them around the midwest if you couldn't ship it.


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## Plainsman

Danny B said:


> Plainsman, nothing offensive was ment, just the facts. If you were born in this country you are a Native American. :beer:
> Maybe I could have said it in a better way, sorry. Color or race should have nothing to do with being American, but somehow our Government wants to make it that way.
> Getting back to young pup coyotes. I'll sell the ones I have for $500 each, but you got to go down the hole to get em. :lol:


Oh, that's all. I agree totally with that. When you said


> I'm being nice. Except for the Native American remark


 I thought it had to be something more than that, and I have a terrible curiosity. I misunderstood, because there was nothing disrespectful about your factual remark. Nothing to be sorry about. Carry on, sorry I disturbed the conversation. 
I agree there should be no color or race involved with being American. As a matter of fact it bothers me that our Politically Correct (not really) government keeps pushing celebrate diversity. I think we should celebrate unity.


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## M*F

Why dont you just trap your own?


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## neb_bo

i guess ive seen enough wild pets, and worked with animals enough that i dont think it would be hard at all to domesticate one. i do believe that it would only happen if you got it before it opened its eyes. im not trying to start anything fingerz, just stating my opinion on the matter. i can see your point, i just dont think its like that. i agree to disagree.


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## younghunter

Well think abou this guys if u cant take a coyote from its mom and teach it to retrive then how do people take orphan bear cubs and theach them to do more tricks then i can. Seriuos anything wild can be tamed its just matter of when it might switch back to wild side for while or not it wont every be tam but it will learn to trust you and will stick around..


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## falconryman

M*F said:


> Why dont you just trap your own?


pretty shur you can't but theirs got to be some lophole. :lol:


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## R Buker

falconryman said:


> just to let you know in MN you only need a game farm liceaseif you are going to breed them or have more than one so i still can buy one without a licease. i still have 80 bucks is that enough.


I'm going to check that out. That's not my understanding at all.

I'll let you know what I learn.


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## falconryman

> I'm going to check that out. That's not my understanding at all.
> 
> I'll let you know what I learn.


thanks :beer:


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## R Buker

I heard back from a conservation officer. It appears as though you are right!

He said that you would need to buy a coyote from a licensed game farm as taking one out of the wild is "highly illegal." He also said that it would be prudent to keep any and all paperwork as proof.

But, it sounds like you can now go out and get yourself a cuddly little pet coyote.

Good luck.


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## weasle414

R Buker said:


> But, it sounds like you can now go out and get yourself a cuddly little pet coyote.


Now to find ourselves a gamefarm that sells coyotes and cuddly pet coyote here I come!


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## falconryman

problem: where to find a game farm


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## Brad.T

You would probably be better off calling the "Fur Farms"


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## Jrbhunter

fingerz42 said:


> A first generation coyote could not be tamed. I read where these people have generation over generation kept foxes around and by the 40th generation they are just as dogs, they dont have aggression and they are very well behaved.The coyote idea would not work for first generations.. pry wouldnt be good for the first ten years really.. it would take a while to get a coyote to be tamed..


Second generation coyotes can be trusted as much as most dogs- wouldn't put them around kids... but I wouldn't trust a rotwieller around children. A third generation indoor pup will roll over, sit and heel. Not sure how a coyote of any degree of domestication would perform as a hunting dog but it wouldnt' take 40 years to find out.


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## fingerz42

I was just going off an article I read. I saw a site last night of people who have a tamed coyote. Damn thing is like a dog. Looks well behaved and real pretty lookin too. Almost makes me feel bad about killing a coyote. But thats just the difference between a wild coyote and a pet coyote. Who kills a tamed pet no matter what the species.


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## Squirrel_Hunter_Gray

It depends on the regulations in your state but it is illegal to keep wild animals in captivity without a permit. I seriously doubt you will be able to obtain a permit to keep a coyote as a pet. You should look into the Carolina Dog. There are wild dogs from the Southeast that can be traced back to dogs kept by the Indians. They are more interesting than a coyote in my opinion.

I have heard that folks purchase or otherwise obtain coyotes/foxes for hound training pens.


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## falconryman

Squirrel_Hunter_Gray said:


> It depends on the regulations in your state but it is illegal to keep wild animals in captivity without a permit. I
> 
> I have heard that folks purchase or otherwise obtain coyotes/foxes for hound training pens.


it's legal. where would i find those farms.


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## falconryman

Brad.T said:


> You would probably be better off calling the "Fur Farms"


know where any are in our areas. :beer:


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## mkteagle

Okay whomever says first generation coyotes can't be domesticated, I know someone whom raised some their dog found in cave/shelter thing or den thats the word I'm looking for. And if you guys know anything about coyotes or wolves when a litter is found by humans or any other animals such as dogs, even if left alone, if the coyote pups mom smells any scent of humans or dogs they will abandon the den and the puppies.

This was my ex-wifes father, so I'm not BSing here but they domesticated the whole litter of puppies and I've seen one of them that they gave to my ex-wifes dad's brother. But, a chow of theirs and a coyote got busy and they own one from that litter, and Brent (the father) swears he saw that coydog take down a deer. This was in idaho though out in the middle of nowhere... I know a place in Logan, Utah where they capture coyotes and study them what is it a wildlife refuge or whatever.... pretty sure they don't sell them though, sorry couldn't be of much help, but a coyote can be domesticated if you get them pretty young. If you have trouble finding a coyote though, I know of a breeder in southern utah whom sells wolf-hybrids. Like Alaskan Malamute/Wolf and a Husky/wolf hybrid, that's pretty close right?


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## fingerz42

LOL, EVERYONE knows someone who has done the craziest things. Not surprised you are trying to convince me right now.


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## mkteagle

Yes everyone knows someone...


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## Duck Commander

I know a guy that raises Bobcat, lynx and Russian lynx for guess what pets. The russian lynx get up to around 100 or so lbs. Huge cats and people pay thousands for them to have as pets. I am gonna get a bobcat soon from him, he told me they make great pets. So I don't see why a coyote couldn't be tamed enough for a pet.


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## Jrbhunter

fingerz42 said:


> LOL, EVERYONE knows someone who has done the craziest things. Not surprised you are trying to convince me right now.


Those articles you read were written by someone.... someone who knew less about coyotes than my grandmother.


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## fingerz42

One of my friends knows someone whose first cousin has a friend who saw bigfoot. It's true. I heard it straight from my friend.


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## fingerz42

Oh, and JRB, the article I read was from someone who actually raised the foxes. Thanks for your insight though.


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## Jrbhunter

My cousin raises chickens so should he start writing articles about domesticating bald eagles? I work with a couple fox farmers regularly- and they're smart enough to know it doesn't take 40 generations of ANY animal to domesticate it.

When I tell you of people raising live coyotes they are folks I have known personally for years. I've fed/tranquilized/medicated/hauled and collected urine off the captive animals personally. I've grabbed live coyotes by the scruff of the neck and thrown them in a cage- only hours after pulling them from a trap in a field. I've petted coyotes that were born and raised in a laundry room and slept in the hamper.

And you're qualified to argue this subject because you read something- somewhere? Any chance you could dig up that article for us? Didn't think so. Thanks for your input, just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.


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## MossyMO

Somebody is having a bad day :huh:


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## Jrbhunter

Nah, not really. I did have a funeral this morning but I'm not one to let my emotions spill onto the keyboard- just calling em' like I see em'. I've found the more folks bite their tongues around outlandish claims- the more outlandish the claims get. A little reality check never hurt anyone;


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## fingerz42

Not letting your emotions spew onto the keyboard? Better check the post 3 above this one. I didnt know I was dealing with such a domestic coyote expert. Since you have raised them yourself and know numerous people who have done the same, I bow down to you. I eat up every word you say.

P.S. My point wasnt that it takes 40 years to domesticate a coyote. I just meant it wont happen in the first generation, I just dont beelieve it. (No matter how many coyotes you've grabbed by the scruff or petted or rolled around on the living room floor with.) I'll look for that link. It was people who raised and still raise fox, they just said it doesnt take one generation to domesticate them.


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## R Buker

I dare say it takes many, many generations to truly "domesticate" a wild animal. Taming one or domesticating one are two different things. People have been raising wolves and wolf/dog crosses for many, many generations and they still are NOT domesticated.

Now, on the flip side, one could potentially get a young coyote, raise it right and if it's a mild-mannered animal, it could get fairly tame. There's no promise that it's offspring would be that tame though.

Take a look at circus animals... Lions and Tigers and Bears.... oh my! Even though they've been bred in captivity for many years and many, many generations, they are by no means "domesticated." Just ask that performer who got mauled or all the people how get attacked each year by pet tigers, lions, etc.

I think the issue here is what word you want to pick. Anyone who says an animal can be domesticated in a generation or two is confused. They can not be. Trust me, if coyotes could be domesticated in a generation or two, you'd be seeing them for sale in pet shops at the mall. It's just not going to happen. White man has not been in this country long enough to domesticate coyotes.


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## Jrbhunter

So, by your example of Lions/Tigers/Bears, Randy... many breeds of house dogs are not domesticated? Actually- are any of them? Oh my!

No fox, no coyote, no species native to the wild could be domesticated at this point... 40 years or not... they're all prone to attacking a human or acting outside the bounds of standard (Cow/Chicken) domestication.

If you raise two or three generations of coyotes indoors, under human supervision, the offspring will be as trustworthy as any pitbull out there. Call it what you want- I call the 40 year domestication bull****.

PS: There is an add in my smalltown paper right now, published today, advertising hybrid wolf pups. It says "Come visit, play frisbee with parents, take home a pup." I've never seen a cow fetch a frisbee-


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## Fallguy

Jrbhunter said:


> PS: There is an add in my smalltown paper right now, published today, advertising hybrid wolf pups. It says "Come visit, play frisbee with parents, take home a pup." I've never seen a cow fetch a frisbee-


Not to mention a cow's brain and a canine's brain are capable of different things (frisbee for example).

Good debate guys. Keep on keeping it civilized. Let's get some documentation if you have it fingerz42.


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## R Buker

Jrbhunter said:


> So, by your example of Lions/Tigers/Bears, Randy... many breeds of house dogs are not domesticated? Actually- are any of them? Oh my!
> 
> No fox, no coyote, no species native to the wild could be domesticated at this point... 40 years or not... they're all prone to attacking a human or acting outside the bounds of standard (Cow/Chicken) domestication.
> 
> If you raise two or three generations of coyotes indoors, under human supervision, the offspring will be as trustworthy as any pitbull out there. Call it what you want- I call the 40 year domestication b#llsh*t.
> 
> PS: There is an add in my smalltown paper right now, published today, advertising hybrid wolf pups. It says "Come visit, play frisbee with parents, take home a pup." I've never seen a cow fetch a frisbee-


Actually you are confusing being docile with being domesticated. Not similar things. Some breeds of dogs are not docile due to the breeding for their intended purpose. Just because they are not docile and gentle with everyone they meet does not mean they are not domesticated.

Saying your second or third human raised coyote will be as trustworthy as "any pitbull" really doesn't say much. Again, docile is not domesticated.

Here's a quote from the wikipedia pages on domestication.

"A great difference exists between a tame animal and a domesticated animal. The term "domesticated" refers to an entire species or variety while the term "tame" can refer to just one individual within a species or variety. Humans have tamed many thousands of animals that have never been truly domesticated. These include the elephant, giraffes, and bears. There is debate over whether some species have been domesticated or just tamed. Some state that the elephant has been domesticated, while others argue the cat has never been. One dividing line is whether a specimen born to wild parents would differ in behavior from one born to domesticated parents. For instance a dog is certainly domesticated because even a wolf (genetically the origin of all dogs) raised from a pup would be very different from a dog."

So, I'll not buy what you are saying about just two or three generations. It just doesn't work that way. But, if youdo it right, I'm pretty sure youcan get one of those pups to be relatively tame and as trustworthy as a pitbull.

[/b]


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## Jrbhunter

Hold up Randy, a moment ago you said it would take MANY generations to domesticate a wild animal. Now, by that definition, it would take many generations of MASSIVE QUANTITIES of a species... defined as "An entire species"... so which is it?

I think we've fallen off track and started in with wordgames that can prove or disprove anyone's own opnion- depending on their interest in playing 'afore mentioned wordgames.

I'll revert back to my experience with coyotes and say, the original poster said he intended to find a live coyote and use it as a hunting dog and pet. If he gets a pup that has been bred and raised in captivity it is possible for him to be succesful, if he's willing to raise another liter (second generation) of captive coyotes his odds of having a managable K-9 are higher. I don't believe he's going to be raising coyotes for Four Score and seven years to get what he's after. Anyone that does is either hung up on word games or dillusional about the coyote pshcy.

PS: This is a 34 pound male I caught in my back yard (literally). He was in the trap for about 2 hours before this picture was taken. I shot one of his partners from the deck before walking out to take this photo. I was able to scratch this coyotes forhead like a beagle puppy- then I put a muzzle to it. He would've made great breeding stock for a project like we're discussing. Some coyotes are calm because of fear/subservience and some are naturally more docile, he was docile. This was the 30th coyote I caught in foot holds in 2005.


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## Jrbhunter

Correction- he was in the trap about one hour. Not two.

Also you can see his partner, another male, on the ridgeline a few inches left of my hand. 225 yard shot off the porchrail... should've/could've/would've had the third one but I didn't take a shot.


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## R Buker

> Hold up Randy, a moment ago you said it would take MANY generations to domesticate a wild animal. Now, by that definition, it would take many generations of MASSIVE QUANTITIES of a species... defined as "An entire species"... so which is it?


Ok, let me clarify... I'll now say it will take MANY GENERATIONS with MASSIVE QUANTITIES in order to achieve domestication. None the less, it's not going to happen in a generation from one breeding just because you had the mommy and daddy coyote like you were claiming.



> If he gets a pup that has been bred and raised in captivity it is possible for him to be succesful, if he's willing to raise another liter (second generation) of captive coyotes his odds of having a managable K-9 are higher.


I have to repectfully suggest that you are dreaming. That second generation pup will be no more manageable than his parents.

The only way what you are saying would be true is if you got two of the most submissive and docile coyotes you could and bred them together to get that pup. Then, it MIGHT be more docile than an average coyote. But, just because it was bred in captivity does not mean it will be more tolerant of humans or more friendly toward them.


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## Jrbhunter

I'm suprised to hear that from you RBuker.

A pup raised in captivity, by parents who have already learned to eat from a dish and sleep on a pillow mattress will be more docile and managable than the parents themselves when they reach the same age (12-24 months?). To think otherwise is to ignore the phylosophy of imprinting and learned behaviors.

The parents came from a world where they killed for a living, trusted no one and fought relentlessly. That cannot be removed from their minds overnight. The offspring, however, will come to expect food to be put in a bowl. They expect higherarchy establishment to involve a choker chain or a rolled up newspaper. They feel different dependancies, more trust, less threat and their demenour is unique because of this. From the time they open their eyes they see their parents accepting these things as FACTS OF LIFE, dispite any "Wild eyed" tendencies the parents still hold deep down.

It is important to pull the young from their parents early, to prevent any negative imprinting such as shyness around feeding time or pesky nipping/biting when sparring. The first batch will be more trustworthy, signifigantly, and further generations will only become more and more comfortable with their surroundings.

Am I seriously the only person around here with experience in this field? I guess I'll have to get some pictures on here later this summer... I'm either realistic in my approach to taming coyotes or one brave SOB. I'll take the badge of bravery... but I don't think it's deserved.


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## fingerz42

I tried looking for the site that I got to read the article of the people who raise the fox, and have done so for 40 years. The article stated that it didnt take ALL 40 years to domesticate them but it took quite a few, 10-20 I believe they said. I cant find the site although I have googled it a million times. If you guys try searching something along the lines of "domesticated fox" "fox pets" or "domesticated fox 40 years article" you get the idea. 
I found the site one nigth when I was looking at pictures of a tame coyote.

BTW, glad to see Randy agrees with me. These people saying coyotes could be tamed in a generation or two, stop with the drugs, PLEASE.


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## captdave

I OWN A SMALL RANCH WEST OF CENTERVILLE TEXAS. I KNOW ONE THING IF I CAN BUY ONE COYOTE TO TRAIN MY DOGS HOW TO TRACK AND HUNT THE MAIN THREAT TO MY AND MY NEIGHBORS LIVESTOCK I PROBIBLY WHOULD. I HAVE KILLED MANY COYOTES AND THEY HAVE NO PLACE AS PETS. LIKE THE WOLF THEY HOLD A TRAIT THAT MAKES THEM FIGHT FOR ALFA MALE AND CAN NEVER BE TRUSTED. THEY ARE WILD PREDATORS AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS SO. THE ONLY REASON TO HAVE THEM AROUD IS FOR VARMIT CONTROL. THEY ARE AN ASSET FOR THAT ONLY. TOO MANY ARE A BIG PROBLEM. :sniper:


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## R Buker

Jrbhunter said:


> I'm suprised to hear that from you RBuker.
> 
> A pup raised in captivity, by parents who have already learned to eat from a dish and sleep on a pillow mattress will be more docile and managable than the parents themselves when they reach the same age (12-24 months?). To think otherwise is to ignore the phylosophy of imprinting and learned behaviors.
> 
> The parents came from a world where they killed for a living, trusted no one and fought relentlessly. Am I seriously the only person around here with experience in this field? I guess I'll have to get some pictures on here later this summer... I'm either realistic in my approach to taming coyotes or one brave SOB. I'll take the badge of bravery... but I don't think it's deserved.


Your two paragraphs above contradict each other. Which way is it? Do the parents eat from a dish and sleep on pillows or do they come from a world where they killed for a living, trusted no one, etc? You can't have it both ways.

But, here's the deal. A pup taken on the day it's born from those pillow sleeping coyotes will be no more tame than a pup taken from those wild, kill-for-a-living coyotes. If you think it is, then you are still dreaming and you'd best go back to learning about how these things work. You can't just make up stuff and hope people believe you. You see, tame is not from how the parents are raised. It's about being docile, a trait that is passed in the genes. And, no two coyotes in the same litter will receive exactly the same genes unless the happen to be identical twins. Ever seen two human brothers who are as different as day and night? One runs wild and raises hell while the other stays home, studies and puts an "MD" behind his name? Trust me, it's not because of the way their parents were raised or both would be similar in disposition. Rather, it's the way their genes happened to line up. Coyotes are no different.

The one thing I will agree to is that the possibility exists that a pup, taken very young from a coyote (no matter where it lives or how it was raised) has at least a tiny chance of ending up relatively tame.

As far as having experience in this field... I've raised both a red fox and a coyote from tiny pups. Both were fairly friendly toward me until they reached about six months old. Then they both became progressively more shy and likely to bite. Of course their parents were raised wild and didn't sleep on pillows so I suppose that could have something to do with it. :roll:

I know part of this came off as fairly harsh but I really want to emphasize that what you are saying is not true. I don't want folks believeing it. captdave said it best when he said, "THEY HAVE NO PLACE AS PETS"


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## Jrbhunter

RBuker,

My paragraphs do not contradict each other and you know it, assuming you trapped your adult coyotes and watched them tame down signifigantly over 8-10 months. I'd never trust an "originally" wild adult coyote around children but I'll walk up and pet him after a little Purina and Ivomec.

6 week old pups pulled off a wild mother, in wild conditions, have already had totally different experiences than those born in a home. Early attention from humans, simple food sources and acclimation to the captive environment can affect any K9 pup in early stages. Any houndsman knows this. How different are the two liters going to turn out? Marginally, but it's enough of a difference that the guys doing this professionally focus on working with captive born pups first and foremost.

Fingers,

Save yourself some time looking for that invisible article and log onto Midwest Predator Hunters. Talk to DoyleFlory, the Field Reports moderator.... he's one of the oldest and most respected fox farmers in Indiana. He'll tell you about being bitten by his favorite fox and having his least favorite escape only to come back home time and time again.

Forget about a fox being domesticated in 40 years, Buker has proven it impossible to domesticate any animal unless it's on the verge of extinction. You see- you have to control the entire species, not just a single animal. At least we still have a shot at Pandas.

I think one of the funniest things about hunting forums is how folks OVERestimate the animals they hunt. This conversation makes the elusive coyote seem a savage, bloodthirsty and unbreakable beast. Other conversations often give them godlike powers and super-genius thought processes. Come on guys- they are a great animal but let's be realistic. They're just coyotes. They still lick their own rectums.


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## fingerz42

And they are still wild. And they continue to be wild. Not domesticated animals. Think what you want JRB, I wouldnt make up an article about this topic just to prove your royal *** wrong. Think what you want,but until you have a first generation coyote domesticated and on film so I can see it being just as tame as a dog and its offspring are just as tame out of the womb as the parents I dont believe it.


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## fingerz42

.h


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## R Buker

You are really scraping for some logical sense of what you say. You keep throwing disclaimers in there such as "six week old" pups rather than those taken as new borns.

Here's what I'll give you.

If you take a pup from either wild raised or house raised coyotes that is only a few days old at most, that pup will likely be able to be raised to the point where it's relatively tame. There will be no difference in the amount of "tame" you can put into them. But, trust me, this will not be a domesticated coyote.

Just because the parents were fed purina and treated nicely has *zero* bearing on how the pups will turnout. Period. If you honestly dispute this statement, then you really know nothing about the topic at hand.


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## Jrbhunter

I guess I'm giving you too much credit Buker. I must've had you confused with someone else.

By "fed purina" I mean they have been hand raised and "broken" to some degree. I don't think anyone else missed that point, but in case you did, I didn't mean to insinuate that a Purina diet will tame an animal. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well. The pups will imprint their parents behavior... so if that behavior is docile, they will too be docile. Maybe I'm taking too much logic for granted here.

Seriously Buker- must we play word games? You are extremely good at them, you've managed to confuse the topic and it's readers and exagerate every point made thus far. In the beginning of this thread you thought it was illegal to hold a captive coyote in your state, now you're a seasoned rancher.

I've tried to type an answer to your post a couple times but we are just talking in circles. There seems to be a few other members around here that see this for what it is, so my job is done. I bit, you got me, now proceed as you were.

Fingers, I don't think you've made a point yet but your last post is interesting. I need to provide video footage of something and spoonfeed you information but "Someone" wrote "Some article" and you've taken it as gosphel. Where's that link again? You've done a miserable job of reading comprehension and fact twisting in this thread... I'd like to see this article.


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## fingerz42

JRB, that was Randy's meaning in his post. That no matter how the parents of that coyote act it has NO bearing on how the offspring will then act.

Yeah I'd need video footage. What they claim is along the lines of what a wild animal is all about, what you claim reverses nature. So if you are going to reverse nature I'd like to see it to believe it.


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## R Buker

Jrb,

You are right. We've beaten this to death. I won't further point out the flaws in your science, logic or opinion (whatever it is). The readers can draw their own conclusions now.

But, I'm with fingerz in that I'd love to see some video. I want to see an adult coyote, taken from the wild that tames down enough to eat kibbles and bits and sleep on a pillow in your home. I'd even settle for still pictures. :beer:

But, to clarify something you said in your last note about my confusing the topic and the readers... I haven't heard any readers voicing their confusion?


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## Fallguy

R Buker said:


> But, to clarify something you said in your last note about my confusing the topic and the readers... I haven't heard any readers voicing their confusion?


I have been following (or trying to) you guys for the past few days. I am so confused I can't comment. :lol:


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## Jrbhunter

Haha, I've gotten a few private messages to the same affect Fallguy. This has definately gone in circles and lost sight of the original question- sorry for my part in the confusion.

I'll see what I can do with the video request. I have no intention of bringing a coyote into my home, but I know where I can find a couple dozen that were trapped last fall. Their pups were born 4-6 weeks ago; I'll visit this summer and return with pictures of me frolicking with puppies or my own personal mutulation. Either way it'll be damn fine entertainment.

I'll watch for that article Fingers, I'm sure it will pop up sooner or later.


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## R Buker

I feel so bad that I don't get any personal messages outlining the frustration and confusion others feel.


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## fingerz42

All hail the mighty JRB. You got me JRB, I was so intent on making you look a fool that I made up an article of fox being raised and domesticated. You should be a friggin CSI dude.


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## captdave

everyone looks to be playing word games. looking for that one clip they can disagree on the only thing i am going on is logic and experiance. if you try to tame the wild you will get bit. i tried to tame a racoon and i can tell you you can feed it out of your hand but try to turn your hand over and pick it up you will see. that means it is in noway tame. coyotes hate dogs have you ever left them together without suppervision. my guess is no. if they are not feed at any time they want to eat guess what they will hunt. i have seen coyotes after a shot eat the downd coyote it is nature you cant take that away. i dont want to upset anyone but it is the truth. the only thing a predator will do for anyone is keep down the varmit pop. when that is gone they hunt livestock.


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## Jrbhunter




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## Jrbhunter




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## Jrbhunter

Well Fingerz... you've had two months to find that article. Any luck on coming up with the title... the source... maybe the author??? Anything???

You made 15 post in this thread giving us your assumptions on captive coyotes, and arguing with the experiences of many seasoned owners, don't let a couple little pictures stop you now.

More to come as these little ones grow up;


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## Fallguy

Is that Cal Taylor in that picture?


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## Jrbhunter

Yup. That's a coyote he just pulled from a den last year. It was nursed by his housecat and raised amongst his wife and children. It plays with the yard dog, ect, ect, ect. Pretty much just like I outlined throughout the course of this thread.

The pups photographed are at my buddies house and there are more where that came from. They've taken off really well so far, I should have that video for ya this fall.

I hope the guys who kept this thread so hot with the flames make it back in time to give me input on my videos and pictures. I might need advice on getting these pups to retrieve frisbees without slobbering on them too much. :beer:


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## Fallguy

Jrbhunter

Keep up the good work. That is a video I would LOVE to see!


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## R Buker

There's still a huge difference between tamed down and "domesticated."


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## mike2766

I couldn't help but comment after reading some of these posts.
I'll tell you what I know for fact.

I raised silver fox for 25 years that had 100 generations of history in a cage. In all that time I never owned a single one that I would trust with my ungloved hand. They were not "tame" to handle, although they were technically classified as "domesticated.

Some of those commenting here are using domesticated and tamed interchangably. "Taming" can be attempted with an individual animal, but a truely "tame" animal is the result of many generations of selective breeding.

While a wild coyote pup may be tamed, you won't get the "wild" out of him. Thats bred in. I've grabbed hundreds of adult wild coyotes by the tail and have seen enough of their capabilities that even with "taming" I would never trust one around my family. Even one raised from a pup.

In this day of liability risk it would be foolhardy to keep a high risk animal and expose it to people. There is no approved rabies vaccine for coyotes.
Here in ND they have gone so far as to ban ownership of skunks and ***** for that exact reason. I doubt very much one could get licensing approval to keep on as "a pet".

Buy a dog.


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## mike2766

I couldn't help but comment after reading some of these posts.
I'll tell you what I know for fact.

I raised silver fox for 25 years that had 100 generations of history in a cage. In all that time I never owned a single one that I would trust with my ungloved hand. They were not "tame" to handle, although they were technically classified as "domesticated.

Some of those commenting here are using domesticated and tamed interchangably. "Taming" can be attempted with an individual animal, but a truely "tame" animal is the result of many generations of selective breeding.

While a wild coyote pup may be tamed, you won't get the "wild" out of him. Thats bred in. I've grabbed hundreds of adult wild coyotes by the tail and have seen enough of their capabilities that even with "taming" I would never trust one around my family. Even one raised from a pup.

In this day of liability risk it would be foolhardy to keep a high risk animal and expose it to people. There is no approved rabies vaccine for coyotes.
Here in ND they have gone so far as to ban ownership of skunks and ***** for that exact reason. I doubt very much one could get licensing approval to keep on as "a pet".

Buy a dog.


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## Jrbhunter

Well Mike, I believe the photos above... and about a dozen fox ranchers here in the Midwest.... prove that you're just not spending enough time with those fox to tame them down. Just because the animal is contained in a pen, and you throw scraps and water at it everyday, doesn't mean it will be any more passive than a wild fox. It takes work- and if we need pictures of foxes getting their bellies rubbed I can probably provide those as well.

The rest of you can argue about definitions of tame and domesticated all you want. The guy started this thread with interest in obtaining a coyote for the purpose of a pet/hunting dog. As it pertains to that criteria, I've proven the obvious... it's possible. Keep the spin going if it saves your credibility, but pictures are worth a thousand posts. More to come.


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