# Effects of Hoeven's 1,000,000 acres



## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Whats happening to the quality of our public hunting grounds in order to come up with the Govs 1,000,000 acres? I spent a week end looking at land in the plots guide and was down right mad at alot that I found.The Gov has put our G&F in a bad spot to come up with a 1,000,000 acres.When you are out keep track of plots ground and give them a grade A-F. If you find some poor ones call the G&F about them.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

it is not "IF" you will find poor PLOTS land it is WHEN you will find it, there is some real junk out there that they are calling habitat. It could be habitat for rodents :eyeroll:

Have a good one!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Noticed a lot of junk land also........I was trying to be optimistic and think it was "land in progress" or something.


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

There is a new program called Working lands.Working land are out lined in red in the plots book.It is easier to enroll land in this program.

Current G&F programs and acres

285,689 Working lands
261,957 CRP cost shareing
159,811 Habitat Plots
15,598 acres
14,879 CREP/Coverlocks
3,154 WRP Incentive Plots
2,791 Tree plantingcost share
2,080 Begining Farmer Plots
550 Food plots


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## 1littlefeather (Mar 5, 2003)

Try hunting in other states that do not have the open land and you'll become a little more appreciative of the PLOTS. There are some bad but you find more good than bad. At least there is a chance to find good areas to hunt. Most states do not offer land like this. All they have is WMAs and that really stinks.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

I agree that lots of the PLOTS is not high-quality land. Some is and some isn't. The problem that I see is that a higher percentage is in the "isn't" category.

The problem is that most PLOTS lands are obtained via short-term leases and land is never developed for high-quality wildlife habitat. I would like to see the ND Game & Fish purchase more land to create more WMAs that are actually developed as wildlife habitat. You will notice that most state WMAs (the red areas in the PLOTS guide) are higher quality hunting areas that PLOTS. This is because those areas are managed for wildlife with appropriate cover, food, etc.

During the recent legislators meeting in Bismarck, panelists were asked if the supported legislation that would allow NDGF to purchase more land. Many of the panelists did not, voicing concerns about greater property tax burdens falling on private landowners and the dangers of taking land out of production. However, it is my understanding that NDGF pays property taxes on lands that they own.

The question is this: Would you rather have a large number of low-quality or medium-quality public areas through the PLOTS program (short-term leases) or a smaller number of high-quality public areas that are owned by NDGF and managed for wildlife habitat?


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Good Point BigDaddy

However, I would not support any Game and Fish land purchases unless there would be a provision of some kind to prohibit land leasing around the WMA tract. if not the area would become prime O/G property.

I would pay an extra 10 bucks for my license to offset the tax burden for land purchases.

Just a thought.

Have a good one!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Kansas is the same way a lot of their land in a similar program is not fit cover for anything just a bunch of bare overgrazed pasture and some farmer double dipping in another program. I guess there is no getting away from this with politics.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Good point, just found out that another G/O lodge is being set up this year and to be in operation 2005 around Lake Sakakawea.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

One of the big problems I have with PLOTS is the prime areas, Devils Lake, Langdon, Kramer, Minot/Mohall, Mott, Regent, New England, there are "Token patches" of PLOTS/WORKING PLOTS. I think we all know why!

I have no idea how the habitat leasing could be controlled around WMA's if they were established by Game and Fish. How would you be able to tell someone who owns his land that he can not do as he pleases with it?

The other point I have been pondering is if Game and Fish did purchase land for WMA's would that concentrate hunters in an even smaller area?

I like the idea, It would require some BOLD steps to make it work. Would it work to establish a WMA and surround it with PLOTS/WORKING PLOTS?
Would it work to have half day hunting for R's and NR's? example: plot "A" residents hunt till noon nonresidents hunt till dark, plot "B" nonresidents hunt till noon, residents hunt till dark, then rest Plot "A" for M,T and plot "B" W, TH.

Just throwin out some ideas

Have a good one!


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

You guys are something else!! Any land that is posted with a plots sign is better than a no hunting or trespassing sign. It is truly a great program and brings the issues of access to the forefront and instead of being so critical of the program we need to continue to support and promote its future. As soon as that area gets a six inch rain and turns into a pothole or prevented plant acreage you will change your attitude. It may be next years cornfield. The possiblities are there with the right kind of sign. With the wrong kind of sign you have other problems you will have to deal with. I love the plots program and will continue to support it to the tune of 100%.


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## 1littlefeather (Mar 5, 2003)

I'm with Rooster, be thankful for what you have. In GA our WMA's are not planted and everything is leased which really stinks. The WMAs are managed for whitetail and that's it. The states that have them, KS, ND offer some really awesome adventures. Remember its hunting which requires us to get out and find the birds and cover.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

But you have to see.....we don't want to settle for GA, TX, MN, or anywhere else for that matter. We are ND and set our hunting standards a little bit higher than others do. :eyeroll:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

I love the PLOTS program also. But I also think some of these issues should be addressed and try to come up with some permanent solutions!


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

who the heck is saying anything about not supporting PLOTS. I support them 100% as long as the money is spent properly. Have you driven to a piece of PLOTS land and found a pasture that has been grazed to the dirt? I have, to me this is not a wise appropriation of funds. We can do better, I am just throwing around ideas to enhance PLOTS.

Have a good one!


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

You go Bob!

How dare you try and improve on an idea, I think all wheels should be made of stone or wood as the original was. 

1,000,000 acres ?????? sounds like fantasy hunting to me!

tc


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Stone weels get better traction then those damn wood ones.......just ask the Amish!


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Its changing them thats such a bi$%^!
tc


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Example

Emmons C. 
Two weeks ago I was scouting and next to one of my old hot spots is a new plot 640 acres.By the way I can not recall this plot ever bing posted because most of it is pasture.I called the G&F to ask why would they pay for this. I was told that they only payed for 200 of the 640 acres listed in the plots guide. Would we be better off if only the 200 acres were listed in the guide? This land was habitat plots. My next question was how much of the Habitat Plots program acres are throw in acres? Total Habitat acres 158,673 ,total Habitat acres paid for 77,673, and throw in acres 81,007! WOW But we are closer to that 1,000,000 acres.Maybe we can get 300,000 more thrown in maybe Kmart parking lot. Quality or Quanity that is the question.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Powerful figures when you look at it that way.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Dan,
Thank you for pointing out something very important. ND should only judge how it can further improve ND and not rest because it is already better than everywhere else. I think our GNF is good enough that if it gets the support it will make every other state wildlife agency look like an embarassment.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Grinder, I think you are dead on. In my previous profession I had to coordinate some projects w/a GNF employee. This guy (as they all are) was very passionate about his craft. Supporting doesn't have to mean monitarily either. Just showing up to their meetings means a lot. It shows that the work they do is appreciated and worth doing!


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

The plots land that I have seen in my area is either the best habitat that money can by or good cropland that certainly has potential as soon as I see the first flock land or deer feeding. I commend the GFD for their efforts.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

that is "buy" not "by!"


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Jed

I agree we have the best Game& Fish. I sure wish the Gov would let them do their job like he said he would in his interveiw in North Dakota Outdoors 11/2001.


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Amen Drakekiller, The people who work at and for G&F do not do it for the $, every one of them I know does it because it is, in thier eyes "the dream job". I trust the judgment of someone who is passionate and loves what they are experts at, over a former banker who has become Gov.
TC


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Dream job is an understatement for the gentleman I used to coordinate projects with. He was always working...........if he was out hunting or fishing, he would tell me stories of helping people out or fining them when needed. All when he was supposed to be having a weekend off!


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## Niles Short (Mar 18, 2004)

With land prices going up every day and land being bought by everyone from non residents to game clubs and leasing etc - WHY RENT? When this first started I noticed much of the land that was being rented for PLOT was either junk or stuff that had never been posted. 
Nothing wrong with a farmer trying cash in on a little extra income that already exsists from his CRP income, or renting out land he has never posted. But why not buy the land so it can be used for generations to come?? Do you rent a house or buy a house? 
Furthermore what do you think when this program disolves - I think landowners will seek a alternative income for their land, such as; leased hunting, guide service, sell to someone else,or just say 'post it until I can rent it again.' 
From what I understand it fetches about $3 a acre a year for 3 years-add that up you could buy alot of land in the years to come


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Another duel thread topic. Let's see some order her fellas! :bartime:


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

The majority of Working Land PLOTS looked pretty good to me.

Catch and release pheasant hunting this week was better than expected.

Hunting pressure on ducks and geese was light.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Niles, I think the posse would fight land purchase tooth and nail.. all the more reason to go for it. It only makes sense...cents...whatever.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

I think this is one of those areas where it has to be "put up, or shut up!" I do not make a lot of money, but I would be willing to have an additional sur-charge on my lisence fees to ensure more permanent public hunting land. If there is a way to do this, but not impose it on everyone I am all for it.

I have some friends that hunt 1 or 2 weekends a year because that is all they can afford........literally and I would hate to see them not be able to go at all because of a high lisence cost. This topic could start some good brainstorming.


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## Niles Short (Mar 18, 2004)

I agree everyone hates to pay more for anything wether it is gas ($2.20 for deisel in Cooperstown now) Licenses, beer :beer: food :lol: or whatever. But i feel that land has got to aquired now for public use while it is still affordable. North dakota hands out around a 100,ooo deer licenses alone every year with a extra $20 tagged on them for land purchases would purchase $2,000,000 a year, Sounds extreme yes and a little expensive  but i feel that future must be addressed now not later. Just take a look at the crowded boat accesses in MN. and the hassel they entail and relize that will be elsewhere not to far down the road.


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