# Heavy Steel vs. Heavy Metal



## mac_in_mt

Anyone got inside info on the "new" Heavy Metal that is out? It seems like it is replacing Heavy Steel, but I can't find any info on it. I like the Heavy Steel for those blue-bird days when the geese just don't want to commit.


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## qwakman

i shot hevi metal this weekend and love it i wont buy anything else


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## blhunter3

Shot Heavy Metal this weekend and LOVE it. All the birds hit the ground dead, no cripples. Clean kills. I won't buy anything else.


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## benelliguyusa85

Just shoot hevi-shot it may cost more but man does it rock. I shot hevi- 4's this weekend and just smashed geese.


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## swenny

blhunter3 said:


> Shot Heavy Metal this weekend and LOVE it. All the birds hit the ground dead, no cripples. Clean kills. I won't buy anything else.[/quote
> 
> Was looking into getting a box or two but what size shot do you guys suggest-tried out black cloud bb it patterned pretty good but wasn't making any clean kills this wknd and these were 25-35 yd shots....junk


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## mac_in_mt

Was looking into getting a box or two but what size shot do you guys suggest-tried out black cloud bb it patterned pretty good but wasn't making any clean kills this wknd and these were 25-35 yd shots....junk[/quote]

I have shot the blackcloud 3.5 inch no. 2's and had great success out to 75 yds on snows and 60-65 yards on honkers. I'm not sure why you're not getting clean kills with BB's at 25-35 yds unless they pattern horribly in your gun. Have you put them on paper?


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## blhunter3

swenny said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Shot Heavy Metal this weekend and LOVE it. All the birds hit the ground dead, no cripples. Clean kills. I won't buy anything else.[/quote
> 
> Was looking into getting a box or two but what size shot do you guys suggest-tried out black cloud bb it patterned pretty good but wasn't making any clean kills this wknd and these were 25-35 yd shots....junk
Click to expand...

I used 2 shot and I'm going to try 3 shot during duck season.


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## goose commander

go with hevi metal aint nothin better like everyone else said no cripples


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## SDwaterfowler

mac_in_mt said:


> I have shot the blackcloud 3.5 inch no. 2's and had great success out to 75 yds on snows and 60-65 yards on honkers.


Really????????????? :shake: I'm sorry but a steel load of 2's does not have that kind of penetrating ability at those ranges.


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## snow

What SD said,thats a fact "jack' steel is steel,you'll easly increase kill range with this all new hevi metal load and it won't break the bank.Good info guys,glad some of you are giving this stuff a whirl.Also keep in mind this payload will not corrode if the shells get wet unlike steel shot loads,gives it a longer shelf life,inand outof your pockets,rain,snow...you get what you pay for.


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## mac_in_mt

SDwaterfowler said:


> mac_in_mt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have shot the blackcloud 3.5 inch no. 2's and had great success out to 75 yds on snows and 60-65 yards on honkers.
> 
> 
> 
> Really????????????? :shake: I'm sorry but a steel load of 2's does not have that kind of penetrating ability at those ranges.
Click to expand...

We played around a lot last year with different loads, and a range finder on snows. I had the most success with the Heavy Steel, then Black Cloud, then Kent Fasteel. I was definately knocking them down out to 65-70 yards with the Blackcloud, but really thumping them with the Heavy Steel. What I like about the Heavy Steel over the Hevi-Shot is that you're still heavier then regular steel, but throwing more pellets then Hevi-Shot. Also, I can afford HeviSteel, but not HeviShot.

Last year I put my hard-earned engineering degree to work and developed an excel spreadsheet with ballistics for each type of shell to include how many pellets and what the ft lbs/s knockdown force is at yardages of 20, 40, 60, and 80 yards. For example, my everyday shooter is Kent Fasteel in 3 in no. 2's with 1560 ft/s at the muzzle. This load throws ~140 pellets and has 0.31 ft lbs/s knockdown at 60 yards. My regular go to for high birds hevi-steel 3.5 in. no 2's at 1550 ft/s. This load throws ~142 pellets and has 0.44 ft lbs/s knockdown at 60 yards. The same load in Hevi-shot throws ~112 pellets and has 0.63 ft lbs/s knockdown at 60 yards, double the kent fasteel. The Hevi-shot no 4's in 3.5 in throw ~173 pellets but only has 0.38 ft lbs/s knockdown at 60 yards, which is similar to steel no. 2's.

If anyone wants to see this page I put together, email me at [email protected] and I'll send it to you.


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## snow

Well mac,let us know what choke/chokes you were using testing these loads,my tests show "0" penetration with steel beyond 60yds,infact 50yards is pushing it,steel just does not have the weight or density to effectively kill @ long ranges,hevi shot on the other does.

Here are some facts~

Pattern Performance VS. Choke Constriction for 12 Gauge Shot Guns.
(Choke Is Measured By The Percent Of Pellets In A 30" Circle At 40 Yards)
*BBB Is NOT Recommended For Use With FULL Choke!*

HEVI-Metal™ Frequently Asked Questions:

Q: What is the foot pound of energy for both a HEVI-Shot® #2 and a HEVI-Metal™ both with a velocity of 1550 feet per second and at a range of 40 yards?

A:

Yards
#2 HEVI-Shot® Pellet Steel BB Pellet 
40 10.6 9.7 
50 8.6 7.6 
60 7.0 6.0

Q: As regards HEVI-Metal™ 12 Gauge, 3-1/2 inch, #2 loads: What is the 1 1/2 ounce pellet count? What is the pellet density as compared to steel? Lead? What is the down range pellet energy at 40 yards? 50 yards? 60 yards?

A: Please refer to the following table.

HEVI-Metal™ Pellet Count and Lethal Range 
SKU Shot Size Charge Weight (oz) Nominal Pellet Count Nominal Steel Pellet Count % Improvement 
30888 BBB 1.25 91 76 20 
30088 BB 1.25 108 90 20 
30002 2 1.25 186 155 20 
30003 3 1.25 230 191 20

35888 BBB 1.5 109 91 20 
33588 BB 1.5 130 108 20 
33352 2 1.5 224 186 20 
33353 3 1.5 274 229 20

Q: What is the difference between HEVI-Steel® and HEVI-Metal™?

A: HEVI-Steel® is designed to give a hunter more lethal range than he can get from regular steel shotshells, using higher density shot. HEVI-Metal™ is designed to give a hunter more lethal pellets on target than he can get from regular steel shotshells, using smaller high density shot. The two shells are designed to do different things. HEVI-Metal™ is more lethal at normal shooting ranges (out to 40 yards for ducks). Other HEVI-Shot® products are more lethal as the shooting range goes further out.

I hope this helps,there is only one non-tox shotshell that has a lethal range out to 70yds combined with the right choke constriction and thats "hevi-shot dead coyote",they call it "T" shot but acts and looks like 4 buck.We'll see what the new defense loads look like this year to,hevi shot "00 buck" might be good for yotes as well.

PS~ What make of range finder? On small moving targets you must have a leica huh? or did you range the dead bird on the ground?


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## SDwaterfowler

Regardless of what things say on paper, I have taken enough overhead belly shots on snows with BB's at ~50-60 yds (no rangefinder) and you can hear the pellets smacking the bird but no penetration. So I just don't buy that a load of #2's in regular steel has any kind of significant penetrating power at 60+ yards.


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## mac_in_mt

I was using improved cylinder.

Where did you get the foot pound of energy info? I calculated mine using standard physics equations and am interested in seeing why they aren't even in the same ballpark.

I've compared my pellet counts to manufacturers claims and I'm usually over by 1 to 5 pellets. I calculate the number possible by using shot size, shot density, and ounces of shot in the shell.

I don't have stats on Hevi-metal. It seems the manufacturer is combining smaller denser shot with larger steel shot, which would actually create a string of shot on a moving bird and therefore be less productive in getting more shot into a bird, unless you don't have your lead figured out.

We used two different range finders. One was a newer Leica within the binoculars, and the other was a standard everyday range finder, not sure of make or model. They both were reading out to 75 yds on snow geese we were killing.

We were consistently killing with the Kent out to about 60 yards. Black cloud was marginally improved, most likely to using 3.5 inch rather than 3 inch shells and therefore putting more shot on target. The Hevi-steel was regularly killing out to 70-75 yards.

Remember Hevi-Steel has a density of 9.432 g/cc where regular steel has a density of 7.86 g/cc, therefore you have a denser pellet carrying further downrange. For comparison, Hevi-shot is 12 g/cc and Federal Heavyweight (are they still making it?) has a density of 15 g/cc.


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## mac_in_mt

SDwaterfowler said:


> Regardless of what things say on paper, I have taken enough overhead belly shots on snows with BB's at ~50-60 yds (no rangefinder) and you can hear the pellets smacking the bird but no penetration. So I just don't buy that a load of #2's in regular steel has any kind of significant penetrating power at 60+ yards.


I've had similar problems. Were you using high speed (~1625 ft/s) or low speed (~1300 ft/s) shells? Higher speed means more knockdown power at 60 yds. For BB, its an 18% improvement in ft lbs/s of energy at 60 yards.


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## snow

mac,with an i/c choke @ 60yds? Is this the same choke you claim to kill geese with steel shot beyond 60yds?,.015 constriction @45yds shooting hevi metal has a huge pattern with lots of holes,we found that a tighter choke patterns alot better in our benelli's and beretta's.

Also,with hevi metal they do use 50% smaller diamter HD shot (tungsen) with the same density as the steel shot size,there for travels at the same speed,unlike the old days when we made 'duplex loads" with lead,all shot shells have a string,some longer than others depending on load weight and of course speed like you said.

Anyway,I'm glad to here you like the results of hevi metal and hevi shot.

You guys can down load the current rebates for hevi "duck/goose" loads @ "hevi shot.com" save ya some money and well worth checking out.Over dekes inside 45yds steel will kill birds just fine whether its the cheap stuff or hi-end steel,you'll get better patterns with the higher-end stuff and you will also shoot less on follow-up shots,hevi metal will in fact give more range and more clean dead shots on the 1st shot.


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## mac_in_mt

Sorry I used a modified.

I haven't yet used the Hevi-metal. Can you provide some info on the exact shot sizes and densities used in these loads?

Thanks.


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## SDwaterfowler

mac_in_mt said:


> Were you using high speed (~1625 ft/s) or low speed (~1300 ft/s) shells? Higher speed means more knockdown power at 60 yds. For BB, its an 18% improvement in ft lbs/s of energy at 60 yards.


1400 fps


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## Waterfowlhunter14

to tell you the truth i would not waste my time buying all that expensive shells i have been shooting estates now for a couple year specificly 3 1/2 inch tripps and i dont have one single problem with the shells my guns like them and i have not had one wounded goose yet..so i dont get what you guys are seeing in these shells its not the shells that are going to knock your birds dead its your shot


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## snow

Well 14,like we have said,over dekes close shots with steel work just fine,but if that is how your hunt goes great your lucky,but the higher end loads there is NO need to shoot 3.5's,in fact 3" duces does the trick inside of 50yds,most folks can't make this claim with price leader ammo.

mac_

For more specfic's go to "hevi shot.com" and take a looksey.

Tim


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## SDwaterfowler

Waterfowlhunter14 said:


> i have not had one wounded goose yet..


Oh Boy!  Now that is hard to believe (unless you shoot them in the head 100% of the time) but I will agree with you that it is pointless to spend the extra money on these heavier metals. Decoy em in and all you need is regular steel.


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## callingeese

Well HEVI-Steel is discontinued and is no longer in production. You might be able to find it in some stores that have some laying around. But HEVI-Metal is taking its place. And it is awesome!! It is more dense and they fixed the wad too.. I have shot it this eary season so far and the HEVI-Metal BB's are incredible... Especially for a full box of 25 around the $20 dollar range.


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## blhunter3

callingeese said:


> Well HEVI-Steel is discontinued and is no longer in production. You might be able to find it in some stores that have some laying around. But HEVI-Metal is taking its place. And it is awesome!! It is more dense and they fixed the wad too.. I have shot it this eary season so far and the HEVI-Metal BB's are incredible... Especially for a full box of 25 around the $20 dollar range.


2 shot is also really good, I don't think a guy can go wrong with Hevi-Metal at all. I made a believer out of my hunting partner this weekend with the stuff. I have always used the cheap ammo and had cripple's now I don't.


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## blhunter3

I shouldn't say I don't have cripple's but I have far less.


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## IAMALLARDMAN

Hey guys, I had been monitoring this debate as it layed out. I was wondering if anyone had any more to say bout hevi meal as the season has gone on now? Particurally on how they liked it and what chokes they were shooting it out of? Was getting ready to buy some and just wondered what everyone who has shot it thought? especially out of kicks hi flyer, patternmaster or the new foiles choke? Thanks?


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## slaughter house

Winchester Xpert 8 shot lead is the only way to go when 
You hunt refuges


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## sodakhunter13

Back on topic please. I'm thinkin about buying a case of these but would really like a little better review on this Heavy-Metal. I'd like to buy a box to put on paper first but I cant find anyway around here.


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## Ron Gilmore

Hear is my take, on the Heavy Steel/Metal debate. I have patterned checked 2's in both! I have used and like the Heavy Steel from years past.

So this past weekend I chose to take birds at longer ranges to see how well they worked in the field. Much to my dismay on mallards harvested at 30-40 yards the so called Heavy Shot pellets from the Heavy Metal did not penetrate the breast bone. Most appeared to be no bigger than 6-71/2 in size. Felt recoil from these loads where less as well than the old Heavy Steel.Never had had much faith in duplex loads! All the birds killed where dead from both head and neck hits except one that sailed over a 100 yards and dropped. When I cleaned it 1 pellet passed through the lungs while 4 where on the breast bone! Hard as heck on a knife blade!

Birds shot at about the same range with the Heavy Steel loads all had complete pass through!

As a result, I purchased a case of Heavy Steel on sale when I got back Monday. When these are gone it will be back to steel for me! I will be a bit picky when I use it. Most likely later in the year or days when birds are being less cooperative and staying out a ways!


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## markbrower

SDwaterfowler said:


> mac_in_mt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have shot the blackcloud 3.5 inch no. 2's and had great success out to 75 yds on snows and 60-65 yards on honkers.
> 
> 
> 
> Really????????????? :shake: I'm sorry but a steel load of 2's does not have that kind of penetrating ability at those ranges.
Click to expand...

 I cant even see a goose at 75 yards.


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## birddog007

SDwaterfowler said:


> mac_in_mt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have shot the blackcloud 3.5 inch no. 2's and had great success out to 75 yds on snows and 60-65 yards on honkers.
> 
> 
> 
> Really????????????? :shake: I'm sorry but a steel load of 2's does not have that kind of penetrating ability at those ranges.
Click to expand...

I hunted geese for years with 2 3/4 , 1 oz , #2's Tungsten.....works fine. Trick is work em in and shoot em in the lips. That 40+ yard skybust crap is why people wound....that or they cant shoot. Try getting their flaps down and in close....that's how its done.

Shot Heavy metal 2's today and killed all my ducks stone dead. I like it.
Used the hevi steel too for a couple years....worked too. trick again is getting your birds at proper range and being able to hit em where they need hit.


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## SDwaterfowler

birddog007 said:


> trick again is getting your birds at proper range and being able to hit em where they need hit.


Ding, Ding, Ding. We have a winner!  Learn to get em in close and the cheapest steel loads will do just fine. Spend that extra money on scouting, not expensive shells.


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## bigblackfoot

snow said:


> Well mac,let us know what choke/chokes you were using testing these loads,my tests show "0" penetration with steel beyond 60yds,infact 50yards is pushing it,steel just does not have the weight or density to effectively kill @ long ranges,hevi shot on the other does.
> 
> d?


I disagree hugely.. Bump up the speed on steel and you will get complete pass through at 50 yds...while Field testing the soon to be out Federal snow goose load proves what your saying is incorrect..

Some real facts:

Energy=1/2 MV2 / Area of shot
Velocity = pellet energy (w/doubling factor)

Therefore, higher velocity, the more penetration

Exterior Ballistics indicate shot traveling at 1625fps = 918fps ~ 13 =ft/lbs of energy..

Pass through and penetration all depends on energy delivered/area of pellet (larger pellet less penetration and vice versa) BBB probably wont give you the best penetration and in turn downstream energy will drop.. Its like sticking your head out the window when traveling in a car at 75mph, resistance is strong...

Thats all I know about that......


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## snow

Have you tested patterns with that velocity? BBB,even BB's I suspect your pattern will be blowin,just a guess tho,and remember the concept of HM,no need to shoot large shot sizes inside 45yds unless your happy shooting 3.5'S in BBB,the smaller shot size along with the smaller HD pellets gives you more pellets in each shell,and have more density than the steel pellets and because of the smaller size will penetrate better at marginal ranges @1500fps,tests prove HM will give you at least 10 more yards of lethal penetration than any steel load.Beyond that if needed check out "hevi shot" and if ya flinch at the price down load the coupon on"HEVISHOT.COM" buy two boxes and get $20/back on both duck and goose loads.

Tim


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## teamextrema

Can Hevi Metal be used with the drake killer chokes. On the reviews it says not recommended to be used with a full choke...

Any Opinions or thoughts on this?


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