# Do You Still Feel Free?



## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

I was talking to a good friend today about this. He is from Turkey and is now a US citizen. He said something I didn't agree with and I told him he was entitled to his opinion. He told me this is "a free country". At which I was surprised I told him I didn't feel very free anymore. My question to you guys is do you still feel free? I am really serious about this.


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## proagr465 (Nov 18, 2006)

Do I Feel Free.............? Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmm , Let me think. i think that it has come to that in these days. We are free in the definition that we are able to control our free will and make decisions that will benefit us and those around us. We are free to hear and say what we want, and we are also free to rome about our land like nomads if that is what we desire.

In matters of $ like taxes, hidden fees, interest, fines, cost of goods, cost of living, etc. I feel like that is where the freedom is questionable. But I still feel free even in those matters.

I could write a novel on this subject, but the fact remains that I thank God for this country and the people here. And yes I feel free even with the invasion of imigrants and ever increasing regulations.

We are lucky because our freedom is still very strong. :2cents:


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## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

When i can piss beside my vehicle while i ice fish and not get arrested for exposure....thats free enough for me.:wink:


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

I feel free


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

I'm not even getting into this.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Yes I'm free. Are there societal rules in place that I don't like? Yes. Society needs some structure which = rules. No way is everyone going to agree with every rule.


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## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

Nope. The PC crowd has ruined it for us free thinkers and non comformers. One can not even call a midget a midget no more without a PC person no they are little people. Or a short person short, nope the PC crowd says you are call them vertically challenged. Good Lord...

If you really want to be "free" be an illegal alien, you get free health care, and other welfare benefits, and yet you never pay any income taxes because 90% work for cash only.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

This country is 231 years old. Every one of those 231 years our congress and state legislatures have met to pass new laws and regulations. How many laws do we need until we are no longer free?


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Whistler31 said:


> This country is 231 years old. Every one of those 231 years our congress and state legislatures have met to pass new laws and regulations. How many laws do we need until we are no longer free?


Times change and the rules have to change with it


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Whistler, Let me ask you this, 231 years ago, did our founding Fathers make laws against drunk driving, CFC emissions, speeding, etc. I could go on and on. When it comes down to you getting shot at or killed for expressing your personal opinions, then you'll know your not free.

This thread has pushed one of my buttons, so, to stay civilized, Im done with it. To each, and to each their own

Ryan


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## torf (Mar 11, 2002)

I didn't want to get into this discussion, but allow me to sway the topic for a moment. h2ofwlr mentioned the pc crowd taking control. Well i heard on the radio the other day that the FDA decided that calling people "hungry" was offensive, they now prefer "food challenged". Instead of spending thousands feeding people, they spent it changing the words on labels and pamphlets. Give me a break.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

Ryan, I am sorry if I upset you but it just seems that everyday we are having more taken away from us. Is this what our Fathers and Grandfathers fought and died for? Maybe it's just because I live here in the Peoples Republic of Minneapolis. By the way, the City that wants to ban the circus because it has animals in it. The City where it is against the law to change my oil in my own driveway. On and On and On.

And before you say anything...YES I am moving the Heck Out of This Hole!


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## 280IM (Mar 28, 2005)

Whistler31 Have you ever been overseas? Have you ever been in the Military? Have you ever served on a board or in any type of elected postion? We have fought and many have died in wars so you are free to ***** about the CIRCUS, and your DRIVE WAY I agree with Ryan Why not move out of this hole there is plenty of room for you in Bagdad Check the freedoms out there. :******: :******: :******:


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

I think the freest one could be in the US would look something like this:

You commercial fish for 8-12 weeks/yr and use the money for the basics you can't provide for yourself. The rest of the year you move into the Alaskan bush and eek out a subsistance existance.

That said, I'm pretty happy living in ND, cold keeps much of the rif-raf elsewhere.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

As far as living in this "Hole" I meant the City of Minneapolis. I love this country!!!! Yes, I served on the board of directors of a national organization with over 50,000 members for two- four years terms. I don't know what that has to do with anything?

I didn't mean to offend anybody by my post. I just want people to see how fragile our liberty is here. It seems that many Americans are willing to sit back and be spoon fed the pablum that the major media feeds them. All the while our lawmakers are taking away a freedom here-a right-there.

One example; I am not a smoker myself. But since the City passed a smoking ban in all public places over 40% of the little bars have been forced to close. Now our State is going to pass one. What about private property rights of those owners? GONE!!!!


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## 280IM (Mar 28, 2005)

Secound hand smoke is harmfull to other people, the government is doing a good job of protecting its young people! You never have had the right to harm others,so you never lost any rights. You don't like the fact you have codes to live by in the city? Get on the govorning boad and change the law. You don't like where you live you have the freedom to move. You don't like the news media turn off the TV,don't read the paper you have the freedom to do so. That is what you call freedoms.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I may move this to the political form depending on the direction it goes.

That said, it is interesting how we are programmed to react. Whistler31 question isn't being well received. You all have good ideas, but ask yourself about gun control. Recently a gun control advocate Jim Webb has had his "body guard" arrested for carrying a gun where he shouldn't have. Likewise we all remember Rosy O. complaining about guns only to find her children were taken to school by armed escort. Oh, and don't forget our gal pal Nancy, it wasn't that many years ago she was stopped at an airport with a handgun in her purse. 
Federal laws are for the entire country, but how many gang members are shooting each other on the streets of Jamestown. I work part time law enforcement, and am I worried about the guy with two guns in open view in the back window of his pickup. Nope, if I get in trouble he would more than likely help me.

I can really relate to Whistler's disdain for PC. They often use the term challenged. I find that offensive. Is it really more important what comes out of your mouth than what is in your heart. Not only do I respect people, but I have grown up respecting even the lowest of life forms. My college major is entomology so I respect even the insect life forms, yet I have no respect for PC. I see PC as very ironical because the people who use it must see defects in us. They see color, sex, religion, etc, while I see only people like myself.

Many of us get upset with foolish laws. Example: hate crimes. At first you may think I don't want people who hate some one punished. Of course I do, but the word "hate crime" I just find silly. How often do people murder someone they like? All murders are hate crimes. We simply need to remain logical about all these things. When we start letting emotions dictate our actions we are in trouble. I just like serious, well thought out, logical, careful, respectful, actions.

I think we all agree we are the greatest nation, most free nation on earth. However, our nation is always in a flux. There are people who agree with us and people who disagree. There are people making changes, and some of those changes we like, and some we don't like. To be responsible citizens we must vote to ensure this nations stays as we like it. There could always be improvements, but it is pretty darn good the way it is now. Give us some direction to understand your question Whistler, is it in relation to government gun control, social word police, news media generated social views, etc. ??????


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

Plainsman, Thank you for trying to understand the true meaning for my post. WOW, where do I start?

I guess more than anything it is the social word (thought) police. When I see some of the most hateful things you can imagine on bumper stickers but I can't post a yard sign supporting our Troops without having it knocked down multiple times and even spray painted.

When I have a support out Troops bumper sticker my pickup gets keyed. They can say what they want but you and I are not allowed to.

When someone is worried about actions by suspicious people on an airliner and tell the authorities about it they get sued!

When a city is allowed to take property from a business owner that has sweat blood and tears to build it up to leave it for his children and grandchildren only to have it taken by Eminent Domain and sold to another business!

When your Grandmother has to sell her house because she can't afford the taxes on it.

Some here call this B_ _ _ _ _ _ G I call it being concerned!

Thanks for letting me vent. I am finished with this.

By the way, When I am in your Great State I do feel free!


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## fargodawg (Sep 20, 2005)

here is when I get most upset, I dont know if you would call it "not feeling free" or what:

How come when people adopt, they adopt from anywhere but the states? where are the lines to adopt homeless, druggy parents, crack-baby, less fortunate US born kids?

why when (wife was watching when I got home) Oprah donates millions to build a school in S Africa is she a saint on 60 minutes or Primetime (whatever it was) when the money is so badly needed for charities in the states, according to our govt?

Why is there "a cup of coffee a day to save a life" to save an African kid (suppose I should say "a kid from Africa") more important than helping a kid in New Orleans that is left behind by a disaster?

I give up pretty easy as it is a loosing battle, I didnt want to chme on this topic since I am greatful every day that I have a job that I can work my but off in order to pay my taxes, and I appreciate even more the ones that fight for my right to go to the church of my choice and believe as I want to. THANK YOU to all, past and present, who afford me these luxuries by fighting so I dont have to. :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> By the way, When I am in your Great State I do feel free!


 Whistler, I understand. My wife and I spent a week along the north west shore of Lake Superior. I asked how was it possible to travel from the United States to Red China with a pickup. I certainly didn't feel the freedom there like I do at home. Here if your in a state park and you want to hike you go for a hike. I don't know what state park I was in, but if I wanted to go for a hike I needed a permit. We drove by the picnic area, and signs informed me that I needed a permit for a picnic also. I'm getting to old and my memory isn't good enough to live in Minnesota without unintentionally breaking a law. I don't need a state environmental employee writing me up for a violation after a big plate of beans. How much does that permit cost?


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## Bgunit68 (Dec 26, 2006)

Hey Plainsman? I just wanted you to know I look forward to your posting. I like reading them. You also bring semblance to some threads that are in complete disarray! Thank you.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Bgunit68, thank you for the kind words.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

Me to! Thanks. I wish everyone would think before typing. Of course maybe I should look into the mirror. :thumb:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

No problem. Everyone of us must look into a mirror once in a while, myself included. There is so much disinformation today that no one knows who to believe. This often leads to good people disagreeing with each other. For that reason everyone needs to freely voice their opinion on here as long as they don't attack each other. Many people will say that you are free to voice your opinion around them and later we find that isn't true. I try every day not to be that kind of hypocrite. Weighing and balancing what each of us hear may lead us all to the truth. 
I am really disappointed when someone I like and often agree with takes advantage of me by refusing to take his bat and ball and go home if they don't like a thread and instead tries to pi$$ in the sandbox.

I thought I had moved this to the political form. I'll do that now.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

I think in maybe a "Sideways" sort of fashion, the question could be thought of in terms of "what do individuals have a *Right* to?"

Maybe this is even a different topic ... I'm not sure.

Walter E. Williams stated "Personal Rights can only exist to the extent that everyone can enjoy them silultaniously without interfering with the rights of someone else."

There in lies the problem ... If Walter is correct, freedoms begin to suffer when that basic rule is violated.

For instance ... If for some (or all) folks have a *Right* to medical care without regard to whether they can afford it ... It in turn means the providers of that medical care will be compelled to provide it for no compensation in some cases ... an infringement on their *Right* to earn a living.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

It's all perspective isn't it Decoydummy? It's hard for some people to see through their shroud of political party loyalty. Personally, I am conservative, but I don't owe the republican party loyalty. I owe loyalty to my own integrity. 
For example, I think Bush did the right thing in the war on terrorism, but he is screwing up on the Mexican border. I wish we had someone with enough brains, or loyalty to the American people, or something to do both things right. Of course I am absolutely convinced that the democrats would do both things wrong. Washington D. C. is like that movie dumb and dumber.
On that movie theme, unlike Forest Gump, Kennedy clan can't even follow their father's good advise, "women; can't live with them, can't kill them". If you do play golf with them, watch the water hazards. That shot looks like a six iron to me, what do you think?


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Here in Boston "long story short" we voted to have the toll both removed from several locations. The vote of the people myself included was to remove the toll's from several roads along RT 93. :******:

They are still their!!

I can not own certain firearms that you can because I live in Mass :******:

And much more

NO I DO NOT FEEL FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 280IM (Mar 28, 2005)

Move!!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I agree with Whistler and bore shouldn't have to move.

Our nanny govt is slowly but surely eroding our freedoms always in the name of safety or children or some such BS.

The real bottom line is as a country thanks to government schools we are unwilling to take the responsibility for freedom.

Anything bad happens and most people today think society( the govt) should solve their problem for them, always at someone elses expense either in freedom or tax dollars, usaully both.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

:beer: :thumb:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Yes, I feel free but there are some people who have more freedom than they deserve because they don't know how to handle the priviledge that goes with freedom. Freedom can be very evil when handled in the wrong way.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

> Washington D. C. is like that movie dumb and dumber.


That is funny! To this I can agree! Good one, Plainsman!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think we would agree on more things than we disagree. Were just nit picking at the ones we don't agree on. 

I would guess we are nearly shoulder to shoulder compared to how wacked out the far left and right are.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Yeah, the political forum is educational but mostly just entertainment! I have really moved to the right since I met you and Gohon. I used to be a Centrist but whoa nelly, now I'm teetering on the right edge.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

DJRooster said:


> Yeah, the political forum is educational but mostly just entertainment! I have really moved to the right since I met you and Gohon. I used to be a Centrist but whoa nelly, now I'm teetering on the right edge.


I'll have to admit I have changed some too. I hope it's for the good. When you (all of us) agree with one political party more than another a feeling of loyalty creeps up on you, and you have a tendency to be more forgiving towards them. That has completely been destroyed in the last year. If they don't perform and do what I think needs to be done to heck with them. Bush and the Mexican boarder is a disgrace, and an insult to our intelligence. You may have noticed I see myself as a conservative, but not a republican. That's why I made the comment in one post that the republicans and democrats are dumb and dumber.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

And you laughed at my libertairian stuff :lol:

I don't agree with any of them totally, but the libertarian party comes closest to what I believe.

The Republicans and the Democrats are varying degrees of the same thing, self interested (the hell with the good of the country) phonies.


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