# Not getting my Pup like I had planned...now lost deposit



## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Hello,

The wife decided to suprise me with a puppy for xmas from a breeder that her parents have gotten several dogs from. It was born on thanksgiving and I was supposed to pick it up Saturday but things took an interesting turn this week.

I wasn't to fond of her not letting me pick the breeder,pedigree, ect but what could a do/say so I had to live with it.

I guess the wife didn't know I spent hours and hours and hours reading about breeders, dogs, pedigrees online for the last year...must have thought I was looking at porn on the computer or something. LIke I said though nothing I could do at that point..the money was already paid.

I called the breeder on Tuesday so I could schedule a time to come pick up the puppy on Saturday like we had planned all along. She answered the phone and I asked what time would work to come pick up the dog.

She said "I am glad you called I have been meaning to talk to you" She then goes on to say that my puppy isn't eating well and is significantly smaller than the others and hasn't grown at all over the last few weeks as the other have. She said she doesn't feel comfortable selling me the puppy because she doesn't think it is going to make it. I said I didn't want a puppy in that condition either and thanks for letting me know.

She offered me black female from the same litter but I wasn't interested in a Black Lab. She also offered me a yellow from a different litter that was already 9 weeks old but I didn't feel comfortable with a "leftover" puppy from a sire who's looks I wasn't fond of so I declined her offer.

So I slept on it for a night and confirmed my decision about declining the "other" puppy. We called her the following day and asked for our deposit back and she basically laughed at us saying the deposits are non-refundable. Under a normal situation I agree with a "non-refundable" deposit if I backed out at the last minute for no good reason but in my opinion she didn't hold up her end of the bargain. The wife picked out a puppy from dog X and Y and now we weren't going to get the one we originally picked. I understand that the puppy not growing isn't her fault but it isn't my fault either.

Am I out of line with asking for my deposit back? The more and more I think about it I keep coming up with more reasons why I don't want a puppy from her anymore. 
1)Only one terrible picture of the sire was provided (on the website) and no pictures of the Dam! she was claiming her computer was down...(so go take some freakin 35mm pics and mail them to me..the breeder is 4 hours away) 
2) Only got the pedigree of the Sire (off the website) 
3) she never called or returned emails, only communication was if we called her. 
4) She never mentioned anything about the dog not progressing until 4 days before I was coming to pick it up when I called her. 
5) and the way she is handling this whole situation has just put a sour taste in my mouth.
6) Everytime I called her I felt like she was trying to get me off the phone as fast as possible...always sounded really busy

Should I call her again and try to get our $200 deposit back or is it a waste of time? If needed should I contact the better business bureau? I know its only $200 but hey $200 is $200 right?

I currently have a 5.5yr Old YLF so I still have a dog to hunt with so not having a puppy right now isn't the end of the world.

What are some of your thoughts?

thanks much

David


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## riverview (Sep 1, 2009)

You should get your deposit back no questions asked. Very nice of your wife but id rather pick my own dog. I dont have a problem with her pickeing her dogs out but not mine. but that is just me. good luck


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

riverview said:


> You should get your deposit back no questions asked. Very nice of your wife but id rather pick my own dog. I dont have a problem with her pickeing her dogs out but not mine. but that is just me. good luck


oh believe me...I want to pick out my own dog also. I was happy but very unhappy at the same time.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

IS there any contract if so that will determine the conditions if not I would not fool with BBB but take her to small claims court you might want to say in court you wanted that particular breeding only

the judge will get your money

next time deal with a reputable breeder


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Bob is right. You had a contract for a specific product, in a specific condition, and deliverable at a specific time. You held up your end, the owner did not. Just the threat of small claims might do it, but follow through. If you can file the case in your locale she might not want to travel to court when she is going to lose anyway.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Yes.....take her to court.When she finds out she may decide to refund your deposit.You had a deal for a certain pup from a specific breeding and she is not holding up her end.


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## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

I would go the small claims root like everyone suggests, or if you are bent on getting a puppy from that breeder you could ask her to roll over the deposit. I don't think I would do that but good blood can't pick its owner.


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## TPL (Oct 7, 2008)

I had a very similar situation with Wildrose. I let it go but made/make sure I let everyone know what kind of people and outfit they are/run. I do so in a factual, non malicious way. People deserve the truth and to be treated with fairness.


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## Boone (Jan 12, 2010)

Jungda99,

If I understand your situation correctly, there are a number of things I find questionable and perhaps unscrupulous about this breeder. I am a breeder of Brittanies and have been fortunate enough to not find myself in any of these situations because of certain precautionary policies I take regarding the sale of puppies.

First, we do an in depth interview of anyone purchasing any of our puppies to find out the dynamics of the family, the environment the pup will be raised in (ie; suburban, rural, etc.) and talk to the ones that will be interacting the most with the pup so as to make sure that pup has every opportunity to achieve it's potential as a hunting/field trialing dog as well as a companion. We don't sell any birth day or X-mas "surprise" puppy gifts or donate our pups to DU or PF for raffles where we have no control where the pup goes.

Second, from the very moment we receive any deposit, that money ensures your pick placement of a healthy, happy puppy from the litter advertised. If for some reason a healthy pup can not be delivered on our part, you will be given a choice between your deposit being returned, taking another pup of the opposite sex (if available) or us keeping the deposit and you having pick of the litter of the next acceptable breeding.

Finally, as I said previously, your deposit ensures your pick placement and picks are officially made the sixth week after whelping when the pups personalities have developed to a point where our clients can make an educated decision about the pup they want or I can help to match a pup to a client's hunting needs or preferences (particularly if the client is out of town). Thus, if a pup is too ill to reflect the quality of pup we are trying to sell, the pick becomes a mute point and the choice is given to the client as stated previously.

I have only refused to give one deposit back, and that was a situation where I had turned away two potential buyers before the sixth week (as the litter was then completely sold) when a couple decided they were getting separated and didn't want the pup. Your situation is one that may need to be handled in small claims court or perhaps the threat of writing a letter to AKC or even the IRS may be needed. However, there are a handful of bad apples out there that are giving ammunition to organizations like the HSUS to harshly restrict and regulate breeding. I personally would like to see us, as breeders/sportsman police these people ourselves.

Good Luck,

Boone
http://www.bigskybrits.com
(pups available now!!!)


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

Taking her to court sounds good, but in reality you'll spend more than you'll recover in addition to the stress and headache of dealing with the situation. You've been burned.... You can forgive and forget, or you can go on every hunting dog forum in existence to get the word out in this breeder (preferrably weekly), write letters to the editor of every newspaper in the state where she lives, etc. My personal preference would be to smear fresh dog poop on all of the handles of all of her vehicles, house doors, etc. Just kidding. :beer:

The bottom line is that you found yourself in a bad position before you even talked to this lady.... You probably wouldn't have taken to a pup from her regardless of how good the pup was......I think you would have resented the pup. That still doesn't excuse this person's lack of business ethics, but the $200 she refuses not to give you back might be the best $200 you've spent...... 12 to 14 years is a long time to live with a dog you really didn't want in the first place.

I've bred dogs for over 20 years... I also have a "Non-Refundable Deposit" policy, but that only applies to someone who just decides they don't want a pup. There are all kinds of situations that come up that prevent people from taking a pup they've put a deposit down on and any reputable breeder should work with folks who find themselves in situations they hadn't planned on. Having said that, over the years I've heard some pretty far-fetched stories when people ask for their deposit back. One of the more recent ones was a lady who called me up and said that her insurance company was going to cancel their homeowners insurance if they got a dog because of liability reasons and would I please refund their deposit... I thought that was pretty creative....she must have stayed up pretty late thinking that one up!!! I asked for her insurance agent's name and phone number, but never did get it. I figured somwone that desperate must really need the money, so I sent her money back to her....


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks for the input everyone...we will see what happens.

you are correct...I was in a bad situation from the start. I have talked about getting another pup for the last year and a half or so but you guys know how it is...I wanted to pick my own pup from my own breeder from my own lines ect....

Once I would have taken posession of the pup she would have been treated the same regaurdless of where she came from...I love dogs too much to do that.

At least I got the wife to understand that she is never to do this again!! I guess it cost us $200 to learn that...lets hope not.

Hopefully she steps up to the plate and does the honorable thing!!

Later


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Be very careful about this going to court thing. IF you had a written contract and it stated that deposits are non refundable, you're screwed. If you had no contract, you're screwed. It's her word against you.

You'll have to go through small claims because of the small amount. It will cost you $50.00 or more to file. You don't get that money back. If you go to court, you'll probably need an attorney because she'll have one. More unrecoverable money. Now, you win, and how are you going to get the money? Many times you have to file a for a judgement which she will have a year to contest.

Personally, I'd take a new pup, sell it if you don't like the breeding, and start all over with a new pup. I'd also turn this breeder into the AKC and see if they can help you. That's a bunch of paper work.

The crooks have most of the rights in these cases; you're kind of screwed.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

> Be very careful about this going to court thing. IF you had a written contract and it stated that deposits are non refundable, you're screwed. If you had no contract, you're screwed. It's her word against you.


But she hasn't fulfilled her end of the agreement/contract. His word against hoer's does not apply to that. I hope you have a receipt of the deposit and copy of the check. It is always good to put a note in the "for" line, of your check, as to what you are paying them for.



> You'll have to go through small claims because of the small amount. It will cost you $50.00 or more to file. You don't get that money back. If you go to court, you'll probably need an attorney because she'll have one. More unrecoverable money.


It may be worth the $50 and I would doubt that she would hire an attorney at her own expense either. Many times it only takes a letter from an attorney or the filing in court to get these types of people to do the right thing. Make sure to keep track of all your costs related to the case as you may be able to recover those expenses also.



> Now, you win, and how are you going to get the money? Many times you have to file a for a judgement which she will have a year to contest.


I'm not sure what state you live in, but in ND you do not have the right to appeal the decision of the judge in Small Claims Court. But if a person is unemployed, does not have any property of sufficient value, or in on some type of assistance, it may be impossible to collect. The losing party of the case has 10 days from the date of judgment to pay the judgment sum. If not you can start collection through the Sheriff. If you live somewhere other than ND, you will have to check your state's small claims law.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Longshot said:


> But she hasn't fulfilled her end of the agreement/contract. His word against hoer's does not apply to that. I hope you have a receipt of the deposit and copy of the check. It is always good to put a note in the "for" line, of your check, as to what you are paying them for.
> 
> What agreement? If it wasn't in writting and signed by both parties, there is no agreement and nothing is implied.
> 
> ...


You don't have the right to appeal the decision, but if a judgement is taken, you have one year to appeal the JUDGEMENT. At least in Wi. and most states I believe are similar. If you have a Sheriff try to collect, they hate doing it and CHARGE for every attempt. It's really a losing situation and probably not worth pursuing. Just take a nice looking pup and sell it.


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## Springer (Dec 21, 2004)

I believe filing a small claim in ND is only $5.00 
I would defiantly go that route.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

> You don't have the right to appeal the decision, but if a judgement is taken, you have one year to appeal the JUDGEMENT. At least in Wi. and most states I believe are similar. If you have a Sheriff try to collect, they hate doing it and CHARGE for every attempt. It's really a losing situation and probably not worth pursuing. Just take a nice looking pup and sell it.


To clarify for you gonehuntin, you cannot appeal the judgment in Small Claims in *ND*. I am not sure where Jungda99 is from, but was giving him information for ND to show it is not the same in every state as you alluded to in your fist post. I would not hesitate to file in Small Claims in this situation with the law in ND. As for using the Sheriff as a legal avenue, I know others that have had no problem doing so. I guess it would be easier to know what state Jungda99 is from to know what information is applicable in this situation.


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

I am from MN but the breeder is from Wisconsin


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Jungda99, I just looked at the WI Small Claims guied here: http://www.wicourts.gov/about/pubs/circ ... sguide.htm and also here: http://wilawlibrary.gov/topics/justice/ ... claims.php

I don't think I would bother buying anything in WI like this again. She probably knows it and sold the dog to someone else I would bet. I think I would make sure to let everyone know of this breeder and hope that no one else falls for her bs.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

It looks like in WI if a court commissioner heard your case any party may request a new trial before a judge, but a judgment is final. To collect they give a lot of options to do so, but the filing and procedures to get there look to be lengthy. If you get a judgment, you have to file it and pay for it and then be reimbursed that fee by the defendant. Then it can simply be left as a lien for 10 years. Other options are to turn it over to a collection agency, garnish wages, garnish checking and savings accounts, or property seizure by the Sheriff to be sold on your behalf. The WI process looks to be weighted towards the defendant by making it as difficult as possible for a plaintiff and the process differs between counties by quite a bit in some instances.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

Please post up the name and breeding you were purchasing from. A good way to get a bad name out. 
That said, be nice in the posting.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

I suspect there is a bit more to this story. There are always two sides to every story and the truth usually lies somewhere in between.

Sounds a bit like buyers remorse to me.

But, if it's true, why not mention the breeder so it doesn't happen to someone else.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

redlabel said:


> I suspect there is a bit more to this story. There are always two sides to every story and the truth usually lies somewhere in between.
> 
> Sounds a bit like buyers remorse to me.
> 
> But, if it's true, why not mention the breeder so it doesn't happen to someone else.


Because he could be sued for liabel or slander unless he could prove every word. A couple of years ago I got burned on a snowgoose hunt in SD. I posted the story, but when people asked me to name the outfitter, I would only do it by pm to them, not publicly. The reason was, my attorney said he could sue me if I didn't have each and every claim in writting or wittnesses to prove it.

It is smart not to name the breeder on a public forum. I suggest you ask him by pm who it was.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

gonehuntin' said:


> redlabel said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect there is a bit more to this story. There are always two sides to every story and the truth usually lies somewhere in between.
> ...


The only difference of giving the name via PM versus on the open forum is that only one person is seeing it. If that one person goes back to the owner of the kennel, that kennel can still file suite. Just doesn't matter.

If you feel comfortable that you've done everything correctly in this process of standing behind taking a puppy out of the litter and not trying to back out for other reasons than posted, slander away. Breeders like this probably shouldn't be around anyways. By the sounds of it, they have multiple litters on the ground quite frequently. Not quite a puppy mill but not far from it.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Oh, I could care less what the name of the breeder is, I just think there's more to the story than the one sided explanation everyone seems to have swallowed.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

redlabel said:


> Oh, I could care less what the name of the breeder is, I just think there's more to the story than the one sided explanation everyone seems to have swallowed.


I don't think anyone "swallowed anything redlabel. Someone asked for advice and was given some opinions to the situation. I wouldn't think twice about taking it to court, but yes there could be more to it also. I would rather give someone on here the benefit of the doubt though. Is there more to this story that you know of redlabel?


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

There isn't any more to the story. Just flat out worthless breeder.

I will post the breeders info after I get my money back...she is located in XXXXXXX Wisconsin...

"Allegidly" she is going to return our money "after" she sells the pup. I am hopeing she is going to raise the pup until it is healthy and then sell it but I am not sure.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I would talk to a lawyer in Wisconsin and sue her in small claims court.

Truthfully if the story is as you represented it I would not care if it cost me a thousand dollars. I would get my money back and cost her some laywer fees as well. And if you take that step she will probably fold.

I would keep my mouth shut about her until then though so she has no grounds to counter sue


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

I assume the deposit was specified on a Yellow dog? If not they are still holding their end of deal by having another healthy pup from the litter the deposit was on.

Id take a black female any day of the week 8)


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

USAlx50 said:


> Id take a black female any day of the week 8)


 

Once you've had black you'll never go back! :rollin:


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

HUNTNFISHND said:


> USAlx50 said:
> 
> 
> > Id take a black female any day of the week 8)
> ...


So Ive heard. :rock:


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Bobm said:


> Truthfully if the story is as you represented it I would not care if it cost me a thousand dollars. I would get my money back and cost her some laywer fees as well.


My thoughts exactly Bob.


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