# Fur caliber.....



## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

Hi Folks. Here it goes. I just recently bought a .223 and want to have it rebarreled to one of the following; 17 Rem, 17 Mach IV, 19 Calhoon, .221 Fireball, or 22 Hornet. Now, before I get hammered with this and that, let's get some particulars. 1) I already have the gun, so don't tell me to go with a single shot or Encore. I want this gun and I want these calibers. 2) The reason I bought a .223 is because I am a lefty and there are no manufacturers who make the 5 calibers I mentioned in a left handed gun. Again, I don't want to shoot righty, I want a left handed gun, I don't want a single shot, I want the gun I have, so please, no advice about the gun. It's a done deal, gonna be rebarrreled. 3) I'm not interested in your opinions on the .223. I don't want it, thus, I'm rebarreling. I think it's tough on fur. Whether you believe that or not, I am not going to use it, so please don't tell me to shoot a .223, or a 22-250, .243, whatever. I want one of the five calibers I listed. 4) I DO NOT RELOAD and I have absolutely no desire to. My main goal is not .5 moa accuracy or olympic style benchrest accuracy. I am plenty accurate with factory guns and factory ammo. I simply want a fur gun that will be good out to 200 yards, although most shots will be under 100 yds, that will humanely kill a coyote sized animal and leave little, if any, fur damage. I have shot factory barrels and factory ammo my whole life and have never had a problem with accuracy. 5) I'm not worried about it being cheaper to shoot this or that, use the .223 because you can find ammo anywhere, even if you forget it, etc., I am going to use one of the factory loads I will list below. THEY ARE READILY available and there will be NO problem getting them. Thus, I will be using one of the loads listed below, again, which are made by the factory. That's what I am going to use, nothing else. SO, I am looking for an opinion, about the ammo I LISTED. Here is what I can get...

17 Rem - 20 gr accutip or 25 gr hollow point 
17 Mach IV - 20 gr vmax or 25 gr hollow point 
19 Calhoon - 27, 32, 36, 40, and 44 gr hollow pt 
22 Hornet - 45 gr PSP or 37, 42, and 45 gr hollow point 
221 Fireball - 37 or 42 gr hollow point or 50 gr accutip

Now, knowing the above, here's the question; which one of the 5 calibers I've listed, will be the most effective to use as my calling gun? Remember, my shots will be normally under 100 yds on coyote and fox, sometimes as far as 200 yds. I want a gun that, number one, will humanely kill a coyote sized animal, and, number two, causes little, if any, fur damage. Then, from that caliber, which bullet would you pick from the above? I KNOW THERE IS NO PERFECT ANSWER. No gun will do what I ask everytime and perfectly, but I want the one that you feel would be the closet. Please don't tell me to use the .223, only one of the 5 calibers I listed, please do not tell me to reload, there are factory offerings for all of the calibers I've listed, and don't tell me to trap !! I know many of you would do it different, use this and that, do this, etc., but I am confident in my ability so I'm just looking for opinions of what caliber, out of the five I've listed, you'd use, and out of the bullets available for that caliber, which one would you use. I'd like to hear your opinions. Right now, my thoughts are the .221 Fireball with a 37 grain bullet. But, that changes daily!! Yesterday, I was thinking 19 Calhoon in 40 grain, and the Mach IV in 20 gr accutip crossed my mind as well. I'm cornfused. What do you think? Thanks.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Jeez, you make it hard to get a good, controversial thread going. You'd think other people want to take over your thread or something.  I haven't used any of them, but I think my preference would be the 221 fb with the 50 gr. load. A little more thunk, probably less explosion. Just my opinion. I'm SURE someone out there has more expertise than I do, but that's my opinion.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Out of your listed options, I would lean towards the .221 Fireball.

My choice would be to look at the .204 Hornady. Not being controversial, just food for thought.....


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## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

Ya like that, sdeprie? LOL :lol: !! I just know what responses I've gotten in the past and kind of just wanted to quell the debate before it started. It truly is an easy question, which caliber would you choose and of the bullet grains available, which one would you chose? That's all I'm looking for. Not what you'd do, etc., just an opinion about MY question. You don't have to apologize for your opinion, I am finding a lot of people telling me the .221 Fireball!! Thank you for a great post and thanks for your opinion. I appreciate it!!

MossyMO - thanks for the advice!! I appreciate it!! Do you think a 50 gr. bullet as well? I was thinking maybe the 37 gr. Thanks.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Nunk

I see you have learned what you have to do to get s specific answer. I think any of the calibers you have listed would be OK for coyote. Fox on the other hand have a very thin skin. I have blown the hides real bad with my little 22 Hornet. For years I have gone back and forth with the full metal, rapidly expanding theory. Currently I think the small more rapidly expanding bullets are the way to go. I have only shot the 221 Fireball out of a ten inch contender. It blew cottontails bad, but jacks you would have been able to sew the hide up satisfactorily. I have never owned one of the 17's but have seen hides taken with them. I was impressed to see only one hole in and none out on many of them. I know a fellow who took over 300 Fox with a shotgun back in the early 1980's so who am I to argue with success? Through observation only I guess I would recommend one of the 17's.


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## 223shooter (Feb 14, 2004)

the round that you listed that will best do the job you want is the 17 rem. however i have found factory ammo will splash and the only bullets i would shoot through mine at a coyote is berger bullet. also you would need a very well made cleaning rod and assories. (sp) all that work just wasn't worth it to me so i traded mine

so i would look into the 19 calhoon shooting the 36 or 40 gr. hollow points. this round will enter and hardly ever exit. at least i have never had an exit with my cooper.

my second choice would be the 221 fireball with 42 gr. hollow pt. i have had trouble with the accu tip's in 223. they would either splash on entrance or leave a big exit hole. the hollow pts. will work much better for what you want.

i am no expert but i have been hunting coyotes and fox for a while now and from MY exp. i would get the 19 calhoon with a 22 inch barrel

good luck with your choice!!!


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## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

Plainsman - thanks. Appreciate the advice.

223shooter - thanks!! Appreciate the advice.

Funny, I act like a huge fur hunter and I have to work my butt off to get them in!! LOL!! I usually do my hunting at night and use the trusty old 870. But, I'm determined to get them in during the day this year and when I do, I'm gonna have the gun I want :lol: !!


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Not a thing wrong with that, my friend. Good luck.


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## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

:wink: Thanks bub!!


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

*Nunk,*
The cartridge I would pick is the 221 Remington Fireball using 50 grain bullets! Your 223 Remington rifle will be easy to re-barrel using the same case head and the 221 Remington Fireball is equal to the 222 Remington in performance! You need this energy when you want to connect with coyotes.


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## Nunk (Oct 17, 2004)

Thanks OSOK. I am very fortunate that I won't have to do any bolt face work with the Fireball or the Mach IV, and I won't have any magazine feeding problems, either! Can you imagine? So, all I need it the barrel. I will probably also get it glass bedded, free floated, and have the action trued and squared too. It's just deciding on a caliber that I'm having problems with!! LOL!! I have it down to the Fireball (my original first choice - and I've done a lot of study of it) or the Mach IV. Choices, the choices!! LOL!! Thanks for the advice. Appreciate it.


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