# Posted Land



## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

I have been hunting ND for the past 15 years. In the past few years I have been noticing more and more posted lands. Are these ND residents or out of state owners or are they being leased by outfitters? Pretty disconcerting especially around the Carrington area where the posted signs have now littered the country-side. What outfitters who lease up entire counties need to know is that when the non-resident hunter numbers drop so will your state revenues. A non-resident is paying from $100-200 on their licenses, another $500-1000 in gas, and other $500 in motel bills, etc, and by your hording of land use it is making it more impossible for non-resident hunters who do not want to also pay you $800 a day for 6 ducks.
Sad to see ND turning into SD and other states who cater to a few who can justify paying excessive fees to the greedy. My experience with ND farmers has been great, they do allow access however more and more the outfitters are paying them now to close it off with the attempt to funnel hunters into their high fee business.
I am hearing more and more from non-resident hunters who are turned off now by ND, driving miles upon miles with the limited time we have to harvest a few ducks.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

I have been hunting ND for 14 years. I VERY RARELY run into an outfitter posting land. 90% of the time, if I call and am polite and ask permission, I get the green light. The only times I get turned down is when the owners have family coming in to hunt that tract. ND is as good as it gets. Posted signs are just a small inconvenience - most people just want to know who is on their land... no different form me on my lands.

As a matter of fact, lots of times I see owners ( people that I have met in prior years)in town or in the fields and stop just to say hello and they tell me where to find birds without me asking... I stop and speak to them because they are friends or have allowed me on their lands previously... I am not stopping to get their help... they realize this and they are more than willing to assist me.

The kindness of North Dakota people - I have never seen anywhere else in the world. If it was not so damn cold in Jan/Feb , i would move there just because of the caliber of people.

Sorry you are not having the same success.


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## snogeezmen (May 28, 2012)

Butchp777 said:


> I have been hunting ND for the past 15 years. In the past few years I have been noticing more and more posted lands. Are these ND residents or out of state owners or are they being leased by outfitters? Pretty disconcerting especially around the Carrington area where the posted signs have now littered the country-side. What outfitters who lease up entire counties need to know is that when the non-resident hunter numbers drop so will your state revenues. A non-resident is paying from $100-200 on their licenses, another $500-1000 in gas, and other $500 in motel bills, etc, and by your hording of land use it is making it more impossible for non-resident hunters who do not want to also pay you $800 a day for 6 ducks.
> Sad to see ND turning into SD and other states who cater to a few who can justify paying excessive fees to the greedy. My experience with ND farmers has been great, they do allow access however more and more the outfitters are paying them now to close it off with the attempt to funnel hunters into their high fee business.
> I am hearing more and more from non-resident hunters who are turned off now by ND, driving miles upon miles with the limited time we have to harvest a few ducks.


Please see other threads on this topic......a small group of people both resident and NR cause a whole lot of ground being posted .....I.e hunting when thers no name on signs, hunting when only 2 corners posted people believe there "entitled" to hunt regardless .. Shall I keep going?

Good luck in 5 years if you plan on hunting "unposted land


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## snogeezmen (May 28, 2012)

You think a local farmer cares you pay x amount of dollars in gas food lodging? You act as if these farmers owe you something. Do as Sasha says get out meet some farmers or don't bother coming back *****ing on a public forum does little good


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

I also am very sick of hearing the "We NR pay this and that when we come to North Dakota"...Still doesn't add up to a hill of beans compared to what we residents pump into the economy every day. I share your concern over leasing.


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## snogeezmen (May 28, 2012)

Rick Acker said:


> I also am very sick of hearing the "We NR pay this and that when we come to North Dakota"...Still doesn't add up to a hill of beans compared to what we residents pump into the economy every day. I share your concern over leasing.


I also fear this happening..... Not so much for myself but for my kids....More reason to talk, meet local farmers now... Can only benefit you in the long run.

If not i will be selling my dekes and buying a big fat shiny boat as well as an ice castle!!!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Why do us landowners owe people the right to hunt? I hate the NR comments bout how money they spend coming here to hunt.


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## fowlfreak (Apr 15, 2013)

Most land is posted to see who is on it or keep certain people off. I'm also sick of the NR saying they pay all this money to hunt here. Us residents go through the same thing. We have the gas fees and licenses, granted they are cheaper but its still a fee. Also we are putting money into the state everyday not just the few days that NR are here. Then second most the problems we see on our land is NR. They come in and think they will be there only a few days so it doesn't matter what they do to the land and roads. They tear things up and have no regards to what it does in the long run and how much it costs the state.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't like the complaining either direction. I paid $850 for an elk license and $1600 for diesel to hunt Montana twice this fall. I don't think non residence are bad, or residence. I have run into bad on both sides. This fall I was bow hunting alone up a dead end trail in Montana. Some guy on a 4X4 tumbled about four or five tons of rock onto the road. It took me hours to get out. If it had been an evening hunt I would have spent the night there. One jerk doesn't condemn the whole bunch.

The landowners don't owe us anything, but the other end of that story are those who charge to hunt. Lets face it charging access is simply a cover when the reality you pay for the animal the state owns. I know that is only a small percentage of farmers, and just like residence and non residence there is a jerk here and there and we should not judge them all by the jerks we meet. Most are like the fellows explained above.

Outfitters are posting, but it's hit and miss. You can still hunt most of North Dakota without noticing. When you hit one of their areas you will know it. In their areas most landowners will tell you to talk to the outfitter, or want to be paid themselves. Devils Lake, and around Streeter are two examples I can think of. If you remember it was the Devils Lake landowners who wanted the early Canada goose season open to non residence. If you wonder why it's because they wanted paying customers. Their neighbors were not welcome if the didn't come to the door with their wallet out. Guides I have no problem with, but outfitters are tying up our natural resource and will destroy the opportunities for our youth. Oh, sure some have a youth day or two as public relations, but even the drug pusher on the corner will give a prospective customer a taste.

To be clear I have no problem with a landowner posting because he hunts his own land, or because he has friends coming, or simply because he wants to know who is out there. If I had land there are people I would let on and people I would not. That is certainly a landowners right.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

There are various reasons it is happening. One thing to keep in mind is that as more people post their land it causes the potential for even more to do the same. When I started hunting probably 5-10% of the land was posted. Now it seems that is about the amount of unposted land (on average). As more land is posted many hunters are forced onto the remaining parcels of unposted land. This often concentrates the "problems" caused by the less than ethical hunters causing the farmers who own those parcels to then post their land, and the cycle goes on. While there were the same problems when I started hunting as there are today the occurances were spread out because hunters were not forced on the same properties day after day and most farmers only dealt with them on rare occasions so were a bit more tollerant. Now if you own whats left of the unposted land you are likely to deal with it on a more regular basis and end up posting it to resolve the problems. I don't blame anyone for posting their land but I am saddened by it. Even my uncles held out as long as they could but ultimately had to post their own land in order to have a place to hunt.

Others have specific reasons for posting it such as family use or many only post it for deer season.

It has changed the freelancing atmosphere in ND. I don't have any problems finding birds asking for permission.... the bigger challenge is often finding the person you need to ask.


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

You can tell by the sign! If it for example is a NEW bright orange posted and there are signs every 25 yards or so, this is NOT a ND farmer posting their land, it is most likely a NR or outfitter.
To those NR bashers out there let me here your take IF there was not the revenue coming in the ND G&F from NR hunters! I can't speak for all of them, but I don't feel "entitled" to hunt anyone's land. The reason many NR's come to ND is because of the ease of access, but some of you believe it is just fine now to take all access away. If the G&F doesn't have the money for conservation in a few years, where will it leave ND ducks? Think about this more. 
NR's have a limited time to hunt, 2 weeks maximum and are paying $100-200 a license for that damn 2 weeks. Yet you want to take ALL access away from them? 
It is quite sickening to see now plot after plot posted, and I know it isn't the ND farmer deciding to do this, it is the greedy outfitters and NR landowners who are doing this.
If you see a yellow posted sign that has been there for years, the farmer put it up most likely just for deer hunting. They allow access, however my contention is against those who feel they need to horde a spot for a maximum hunt of 2 weeks a year. You are driving NR's away, and I hope you have the money for your own conservation!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Your revenue for coming out of state to hunt is pennies on the dollar versus what we do year round.


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

Also, if I owned a plot in the middle of nowhere I personally would not post the land unless I am hunting it for those 2 weeks, then the signs would come down. What difference would it make to me if someone wanted to hunt while I am not around? As the previous poster said, funneling NR's to the limited unposted land will cause many problems. Take the signs down unless you are hunting it is my opinion. ND was a GREAT place to hunt in the early 2000's when there were virtually thousands of spots to hunt. ND is turning into Minnesota, and quite frankly I don't think you want your duck hunting to turn into Minnesota's! They can't get give licenses away because no-one wants them, no place to hunt, farmers and landowners alike turn everyone away funneling all hunters to public lands where you sit in the lap of another, this is what ND is turning into!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

That's your choice what to do with your land. Why should someone tell someone else what to do with THEIR land?


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

blhunter3 said:


> Your revenue for coming out of state to hunt is pennies on the dollar versus what we do year round.


Really? Pennies?? Do the math again! $25,000,0000 on average coming in from NR's is pennies compared to the skeleton population's input?


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Where did you get that name number?


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

blhunter3 said:


> That's your choice what to do with your land. Why should someone tell someone else what to do with THEIR land?


Because it is for the GOOD of waterfowl hunting in ND! Pride always comes before the fall, and ND is becoming another Minnesota which has NO ducks now, limited access, etc. I had thought why would anyone travel to ND to hunt ducks when Minnesota had enough, how wrong I was, it was just a matter of time, and POOF they were gone! No resources for conservation, etc. Also you want to see a dead state? Go to Nebraska! A state full of food, etc. for waterfowl, yet the outfitters run the state, and THERE ARE NO DUCKS! There are NO pheasants either for that matter. Do you want ND to turn into to your neighbor to the south? It is just a matter of time!


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

blhunter3 said:


> Where did you get that name number?


From the ND G&F dept! Maybe research a bit more before you speak!


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Link?


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Fishing and Hunting Expenditure Report Finalized

Monday, March 4, 2013
Fishing and hunting in North Dakota contributed an estimated $1.4 billion in annual input to the state's economy, according to a report by the Department of Agribusiness and Applied Economics at North Dakota State University.

The report, commissioned by the North Dakota Game and Fish Department, tracked hunter and angler expenditures for the 2011-12 hunting and fishing seasons, and is similar to other studies conducted periodically since the late 1970s.

The last time we commissioned an economic impact study was about 10 years ago," said Game and Fish Department Director Terry Steinwand. "These studies help alert us to any major shifts in hunter and angler activities or participation.

Overall, anglers and hunters in North Dakota spent $642.9 million dollars on equipment, vehicles, boats, travel, lodging, food and many other items. In addition, these expenditures generated nearly $727 million in secondary economic benefits, gross business volume, secondary employment and state-level tax collections, according to the NDSU researchers.

According to the report, resident hunters and anglers accounted for $555.7 million of total expenditures, while nonresidents contributed $78.6 million. Anglers spent $425 million and hunters $217 million.

These direct and indirect expenditures from resident hunters and anglers generated approximately $35 million in state-level tax collection. Nonresidents generated another $5 million.

"We know that hunting, fishing and other outdoor recreation are an important quality of life factor for many North Dakotans," Steinwand said. "This report reinforces the notion that economic activity associated with our outdoors is significant as well.

Compared to spending in the 2001-02 season, total direct expenditures by resident hunters and anglers increased by $43.6 million, and by $4 million for nonresidents.

Complete or executive summaries of the report are available from the Department of Agribusiness and Applied Economics at NDSU, by contacting Edie Nelson at (701) 231-7441 or [email protected]. In addition, these publications can be found online at http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/handle/145739.


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

SO I guess the solution by you ND residents is just close the border down huh. This has been a wish of yours for years. I remember 10 years ago when farmers rejected that notion when you tried to limit NR's through the legislature, the farmers then decided to put huge orange signs up saying "Non-Resident Hunting Only", I hope this campaign shows up again!

Pride always comes before the fall (straight out the Bible), and this goes straight to those ND resident hunters who by their PRIDE want to close the border. Maybe Minnesota should close the border to your fishing opportunities. Maybe all states and Canada should also reject ND hunters since they do not want any NR hunting in their state!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I agree in part with blhunter3 and butch777. I think it has more to do with outfitters than landowners. That said there is more than license involved when you look at who spends what. Where do you buy your 4X4 truck, your camper, etc. Yes I know not everyone has those, but that's the way I hunt, and I bought everything in North Dakota. I wish I could remember the questions from the Game and Fish survey. I think one asked what I had spent for hunting in the past five years, or maybe it was just one. Anyway, I had just bought a new 4X4 diesel, and 50% of the miles goes to hunting so I said $2700 for that. The total was around $40K.

With all that said I'm still not going to bash the non resident. I was for restricting them a few years back when their numbers were higher than resident or close anyway for duck hunters. It was making the outdoor experience crowded and much less enjoyable. As a matter of fact I do very little duck hunting at all anymore. I still would limit the number of non residence for the purpose of reducing pressure on the wildlife, but at the same time I would welcome the individual.

The only thing that bothers me about the non resident is they started the pay for access. Now in areas like Devils Lake the non resident is more welcomed by landowners than his neighbor down the road. I know this because a very good friend of mine has voiced that opinion himself. I felt sorry for him turning his back on neighbor kids and welcoming in those who would pay. The guy was a poor manager and I suppose every penny helped. Then again his decisions were perhaps based on health problems. Shortly after those statements he went to the nursing home with alzheimer's and passed away a couple of months later. The poor old guy didn't understand that these guys were sucking up to him for access. Still, I will continue to judge individually.


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasha and Abby said:


> I have been hunting ND for 14 years. I VERY RARELY run into an outfitter posting land. 90% of the time, if I call and am polite and ask permission, I get the green light. The only times I get turned down is when the owners have family coming in to hunt that tract. ND is as good as it gets. Posted signs are just a small inconvenience - most people just want to know who is on their land... no different form me on my lands.


I think you know very well who I am speaking of and it is not the farmers who are causing the problem. My experience has been yours. However I disagree in that hunting ND now for 15 years steadily each year more and more those posted signs are showing up, even on plowed fields! I ask why is this happening and what is causing it? In my opinion it is not the farmer who after generations all of sudden decided "We should post our land", no! It is those on this forum for example who are doing this either by buying up that land and posting it, or telling the farmer to do so. My definition of an outfitter may be different, I define one as anyone who lays claim to land other than their own by posting it for the express interest in hunting it. As I said in my last post, this was getting SO bad a few years ago that many farmers were posting "Non-resident hunting only" signs.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Butchp777 said:


> SO I guess the solution by you ND residents is just close the border down huh. This has been a wish of yours for years. I remember 10 years ago when farmers rejected that notion when you tried to limit NR's through the legislature, the farmers then decided to put huge orange signs up saying "Non-Resident Hunting Only", I hope this campaign shows up again!
> 
> Pride always comes before the fall (straight out the Bible), and this goes straight to those ND resident hunters who by their PRIDE want to close the border. Maybe Minnesota should close the border to your fishing opportunities. Maybe all states and Canada should also reject ND hunters since they do not want any NR hunting in their state!


Butch it sounds like your the guy with the problem. I hold little against non residence, but by the same token Montana owes me nothing when I want to hunt elk, or you anything when you want to hunt ducks in North Dakota. If you had no impact it would be ok, but back in the early 2000's the impact was it pushed the ducks out early. If I remember one year we had 32K residents, and 34K nonresident duck hunters. It's when the numbers impact the quality of the outdoor experience, or impact the number of animals that one should restrict the number of hunters. I hope you would agree that nonresidents should be reduced before resident hunters are reduced. It isn't an action against the non resident, it's an action for a better outdoor experience for resident and non resident hunters. I would rather have an excellent elk hunt every other year in Montana than a poor one every year. Do you see my point? It isn't about dislike of non residents.


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

Plainsman said:


> The only thing that bothers me about the non resident is they started the pay for access. Now in areas like Devils Lake the non resident is more welcomed by landowners than his neighbor down the road.


I do agree with you! It is the pay for access that is the problem much like you see in SD where farmers patrol their roads day and night so that no-one shoots a pheasant out of a ditch. I just see the trend and it is happening more and more. I used to be able to hunt ND in the middle of nowhere, now this is impossible if I respect all the posted signs. As I said, I can tell the difference now, the one who puts a sign up every 10 feet and posts a plowed field is not to me a ND farmer doing this, it is a greedy hunter behind it.


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

Plainsman said:


> Butchp777 said:
> 
> 
> > Butch it sounds like your the guy with the problem. I hold little against non residence, but by the same token Montana owes me nothing when I want to hunt elk, or you anything when you want to hunt ducks in North Dakota. If you had no impact it would be ok, but back in the early 2000's the impact was it pushed the ducks out early.


You cannot prove that NR's "pushed the ducks out early!" Especially with a 1 to 2 week window and many of them not hunting a full week! This doesn't push out anything. Also, because you live in ND you should really be concerned MORE with your farmers now draining potholes which will "push the ducks out early" more so than a hunter's gun. If the trend continues, ND will be like Nebraska and Minnesota soon which are fly over states!


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

I can't tell anyone what to do with their land, but posting a plowed field says it all!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Butchp777 said:


> I can't tell anyone what to do with their land, but posting a plowed field says it all!


I'm with you on that one. I suppose it was maybe the motorcycle, but one day I and a friend were out riding. We had 22 revolvers with. This lady with her family evidently coming from church stopped and called us every name in the book. I have no idea what set her off. We were 50 yards off the road and shooting at dirt clumps in a summer fallow field. We don't see these much now days, but this was back in 1971. She cussed us out for shooting up her dirt, told us she was calling the sheriff etc. So we went to the sheriffs office before she could call. When they found out where we had been they all understood. I guess she just hated people of any kind on her land, or she didn't like motorcycles. The land wasn't posted, the nearest farm house was a mile or more away, and there was nothing in the field we could damage. Just dirt and rocks. Since it was late June any crop would have been up. 
Ya, I know a couple of people who post all of their land then hunt anywhere they want, even posted, and never ask permission. It isn't always city folk who tick of landowners.


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

Plainsman said:


> Butchp777 said:
> 
> 
> > She cussed us out for shooting up her dirt, told us she was calling the sheriff etc.


What she did was passed through my mind with those who post their dirt. I would say 95 percent of hunters out there are quite respectful. Most see a sign and move on. The old days of trespassing I don't see all that much, where guys broke down fences etc. to hunt. SO it makes me wonder a bit why all the signs are now showing up in ND. It was a "free state" for the hunter with millions of potholes at one time. I would NEVER run into another hunter because everyone had a place to go. It was remarkable to see the hotels filled and yet not run into another group. But now its different, we NR's are funneled into the public lands and it is getting harder and harder to hunt. If you can actually find the farmer whose land is posted it is a 50/50 deal now for access, before it was a 90/10 and that percentage is shrinking each year.
With the less opportunities for the younger hunter, a generation from now there will no place to hunt whatsoever.


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> I'm with you on that one. I suppose it was maybe the motorcycle, but one day I and a friend were out riding. We had 22 revolvers with. This lady with her family evidently coming from church stopped and called us every name in the book. I have no idea what set her off. We were 50 yards off the road and shooting at dirt clumps in a summer fallow field. We don't see these much now days, but this was back in 1971. She cussed us out for shooting up her dirt, told us she was calling the sheriff etc. So we went to the sheriffs office before she could call. When they found out where we had been they all understood. I guess she just hated people of any kind on her land, or she didn't like motorcycles. The land wasn't posted, the nearest farm house was a mile or more away, and there was nothing in the field we could damage. Just dirt and rocks. Since it was late June any crop would have been up.
> Ya, I know a couple of people who post all of their land then hunt anywhere they want, even posted, and never ask permission. It isn't always city folk who tick of landowners.


plainsman.

great story i think i ran into her sister years ago in minnesota


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Butchp777 said:


> I can't tell anyone what to do with their land, but posting a plowed field says it all!


Please remember that you said that... if you don't like the way it is, buy YOUR OWN land and do with it what you like.

The Tracts I own - I will reserve the right to post them or not, since I OWN THEM. Like I said, it is not your land...


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## snogeezmen (May 28, 2012)

butch,

orange signs=outfitters....wtf man really?

you sound lazy to me, ive hunted plenty of the mythical "orange signs" and they were not outfitters, just farmers posting land legitimately so slobs like you dont take advantage of them. :beer:


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasha and Abby said:


> Butchp777 said:
> 
> 
> > The Tracts I own - I will reserve the right to post them or not, since I OWN THEM. Like I said, it is not your land...


I hope farmers re-enact their "Non-Resident Hunting" signs again! With people like you, there is no possibility for the NR hunter.


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

snogeezmen said:


> butch,orange signs=outfitters


Whatever, you sound like one those people posting those orange signs every 10 feet. A ND farmer does not do this! Why would a farmer suddenly start posting plowed fields with orange signs?? They have more sense than you!


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## Butchp777 (Dec 8, 2013)

Sasha and Abby said:


> Please remember that you said that... if you don't like the way it is, buy YOUR OWN land and do with it what you like.


Yes and aren't you in South Carolina? Buying up all sorts of land throughout the southland, and now have set your sight on ND? Not to hunt mind you but to make profits off of NR hunters. Sad for the waterfowl, sad for the resources!


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## fieldgeneral (Feb 12, 2013)

Does anyone have a job around here? Get to work!  :wink: :rollin:


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

I am locking this topic. Butch this is your warning - we will not have this Res/NR bashing crap. No need for any pot stirring threads.


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