# Forum editorial: A measure of good will for hunters



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Sooooo, What do you think?????

Forum editorial: A measure of good will for hunters
The Forum
Published Sunday, September 10, 2006
As sure as snow geese will begin their southward migration this month, North Dakotans can count on renewal of the debate about nonresident hunters. The first shots have not yet been fired this year, but with the various hunting seasons opening this month and next, the perennial conflict will make news. Later it might spill into the Legislature, which convenes in January.

Maybe there's a slim chance of defusing at least one aspect of the conflict between resident and nonresident hunters. We say "slim chance" because the trends are not good.

One of the festering concerns of resident hunters and state game managers has been the purchase of prime hunting lands by out-of-state buyers. It's tough to get a handle on just how many acres have been bought by nonresidents for hunting camps, and thus closed to residents. But the perception is that land in the heart of the best hunting range has been sold to out-of-state buyers, and then posted to keep everyone out but the owners.

Whether the acreage is significant is unclear. A study by a Nebraska researcher is due out soon, which purportedly will show an acceleration of out-of-state purchases of land for hunting. Meanwhile, perceptions are important because they motivate resident hunters and hunting clubs to seek legislative remedy.

It's no surprise nonresidents who value the hunting experience in North Dakota are buying up relatively inexpensive land and old houses (for hunting lodges) in rural counties. There are few places in the United States where upland bird and waterfowl hunting is as good as in North Dakota. Nonresident license fees are not high when compared to other states. The businesspeople in small towns are happy to welcome the dollars nonresident hunters bring to main streets. Landowners and owners of unoccupied houses can score a nice payday by selling the properties.

What that scenario needs is a friendly gesture from the nonresident owners.

Nonresident waterfowlers are limited to either two seven-day or one 14-day hunting window. Upland bird nonresident hunters are subject to the 14-day limit per license, but they can buy more than one license.

The seasons are longer. So most of the time, the land owned and posted by nonresidents is not being hunted. It is closed, however, to residents. It's also closed to casual nonresident hunters who might drive into the state for a day or two. The more land closed, the more irritation and anger among hunters those hunters. There has to be a better way.

Why not invite resident hunters onto the land when the out-of-state owners aren't there? Why not extend a hand of friendship to resident hunters - a sincere expression of good will? Why not develop relationships among people who share a common love: hunting and the outdoors?

It might not amount to much. But then again, it could be the start of a mutually beneficial partnership. It could solve conflicts before they become nasty legislative debates.

It's up to out-of-state hunters with land holdings to make the first move.

Forum editorials represent the opinion of Forum management and the newspaper's Editorial Board.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Good editorial. Makes sense to me. :beer:

The only reason I can see to object is if an OOS'er owns land that he wants to try and raise deer into an older age class. I can understand him not wanting hunters on it deer hunting.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

When pigs fly.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Won't happen :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I know where this happens....

The posters are up. But if you call the number on the sign. The owner will let you know if it is ok.

The only time it is not is when they or have some friends hunting it that week/weekend.

I also know of many acres of land owned by OOS'ers that are not posted and they don't care if they hunt or not.
____________________________________________________________

One thing I would like to see that study or any study show is how many of the acres are owned by banks/investors. Not hunters. because like I have mentioned before is that most OOS'ers don't know the liability law of ND. (No liability if someone gets injured on your property while engaging in hunting.) Because that could also be a reason why posters are on some of these lands. The posters are there to keep people off because of the fear of a law suit due from injury.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Sooooo, What do you think???


Where's Bert!!!!!!!

This is just another case of people who haven't a clue whats going on and wanting to get into the the game by writing such an article. Again lets blame the G/O's and N/R's on everything that's wrong with the state. I look out my window and I see 5 1/4's of land that i know was bought just for hunting. Guess what, 4 of them were bought from people from the eastern part of the state. I don't hear any mention from the Forum about asking them to let hunters on?? The best deer hunting land in this area is leased by guess what some people from the eastern part of the state again. Think they will let you on???? As Burly says when Pigs Fly.



> Why not invite resident hunters onto the land when the out-of-state owners aren't there? Why not extend a hand of friendship to resident hunters - a sincere expression of good will? Why not develop relationships among people who share a common love: hunting and the outdoors?


Lets see aren't these the same resident hunters that raised the cost of licenses? Made it only 14 days for an upland license, took a week of hunting away from nonresidents on PLOTS land. And the list goes on and on. If I was a non resident I wouldn't be able to get my hand out quick enough. Ya right!!!

This morning I was offered another couple of thousand of acres the landowner would be interested in a community PLOTS. Suppose the Forum if they are really concerned about hunting would be interested in kicking in 3 grand a year to help fund this???? I will not loose any sleep on it.


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

I agree with G/O, what about all the guys from eastern ND that buy and lease land?

Hey these are the same people that buy most of the lake property in Becker and Otter Tail counties so the average guy in MN cannot afford.

When Pigs Fly, well put. :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

One thing to look out for is if ND starts to limit Out of Stater's from purchasing land......HUGE LAWSUIT!!! Because then the will be violating some sort of interstate commerce laws.


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

Sometimes the debates on this site remind of animals that eat their young. Gheez.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> Hey these are the same people that buy most of the lake property in Becker and Otter Tail counties so the average guy in MN cannot afford.


Ohhh, Fargo...........Where the devil incarnate lives!!!!!!!!!!! :evil: :evil:

You are nuts if you think that it is Fargo guys that have bought up all the land in MN on the lake and that is what is keeping you off the lake. Give me break. What % of cabin (home) owners in MN are OOS and what % of those are ND?? What are the figures that are backing your statement.

:eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

G/O, You must have missed the paragraph that talks about opening the land up to OOS hunters as well as in state hunters, eh???


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> It is closed, however, to residents. It's also closed to casual nonresident hunters who might drive into the state for a day or two. The more land closed, the more irritation and anger among hunters those hunters. There has to be a better way.


djleye, is this the paragraph you were referring to????

Seems as you have missed the point I was trying to make and that its not only the Non Residents. Someday when you're down this way we will take a short drive and I will show you several parcels owned by people in your neck of the woods. Yes there has to be a better way but pointing the finger on N/R landowners isn't. Sweep you're own porch before you sweep another's.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

G/O...so how are things in Edgeley?????


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

*g/o wrote*

(BTW did someone pee in your Wheaties this morning? :lol: )



> Lets see aren't these the same resident hunters that raised the cost of licenses? Made it only 14 days for an upland license, took a week of hunting away from nonresidents on PLOTS land. And the list goes on and on. If I was a non resident I wouldn't be able to get my hand out quick enough. Ya right!!!


You said "the list goes on and on" what else is there? please explain!

So what is the solution?

Give the commercial industry free reign?

Limit leasing of hunting land by outfitters

Give NR hunters the same privileges as resident hunters? (Yes i do consider hunting private land a privilege!)

Lower wages for the wealthy or create tax disincentives so they will not invest in real estate.

Lower license fees for NR hunters??

What other state gives NR landowners Gratis deer tags?

I would really like to hear a solution instead of the same old stuff, thread after thread. I made some suggestions about a year ago and got the crap kicked out of me on this site for even mentioning some of those ideas.

How many people do you know that are my age that do not hunt with a NR at some point during the season? Not many and I think you can bank on that as being pretty accurate!

The problem I have with the whole scenario is that ND is unique, everyone always wants to compare our regulations to other states when there is very little if any similarity between their states and our states natural resources and the management thereof.

You know me, and you know I am not against NR hunters as long as science and biology are in balance with the economics, and I do feel that we need some outfitters in ND (much to the chagrin of some of my friends). Do we need to tweak the regulations? IMO yes we do.

What is the solution?

Bob


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Bob, no one peed in my Wheaties that I know of :lol:

Bob, All I do is give an different view on things and I know some you disagree with. Actually I was disappointed Bert didn't chime in then I could have kept my yap shut. I have many times gave my opinions on the week of PLOTS open to residents only. The resident only waterfowl week, and I would also like to see something differently done with the N/R upland license. Again these are my personal opinion just like you have yours I can disagree.

What I did say is why blame N/R for everything?? I did not say give the outfitters more or less. No N/R should not get the same rights as R. The same reason you and I agree on the favorite son bill.

I guess its hard for you to understand where I'm coming from on this. I just felt it was really cheesy of the Forum to say its up to N/R to make the first move. Bob you and I have discussed this before and that is when people from your city come to my town you are really no different to us than someone from Mpls. So when we read a editorial written by a large Nd city newspaper. We look out our window and its not N/R buying the land or leasing all the prime deer hunting ground in our area, but the fortunate from this city. No where do they ask them to open there land up do they?? Just them damn N/R!!!!!!!

There will be no easy solutions, banning N/R is not one of them. Like I said earlier I was offered another couple of thousand acres today for a community PLOTS. Suppose the Forum would be interested in donating 3 grand a year to finance this?? You would think they would jump on it, they are so concerned all of a sudden about where people are going to hunt. We got to work together if things are going to work. Small towns have the habitat the game but we are short on funds. Why not work together big city R and N/R and get more land for public access??


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

djleye said:


> > Hey these are the same people that buy most of the lake property in Becker and Otter Tail counties so the average guy in MN cannot afford.
> 
> 
> You are nuts if you think that it is Fargo guys that have bought up all the land in MN on the lake and that is what is keeping you off the lake. Give me break. What % of cabin (home) owners in MN are OOS and what % of those are ND?? What are the figures that are backing your statement.


Lake Melissa and Sallie, well over 50% ownership is from ND, according to lake association records.

Djleye, what are your facts on NR land ownership in ND?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> Like I said earlier I was offered another couple of thousand acres today for a community PLOTS. Suppose the Forum would be interested in donating 3 grand a year to finance this?? You would think they would jump on it, they are so concerned all of a sudden about where people are going to hunt. We got to work together if things are going to work.


Maybe the ND Chamber of Commerce? Or the Professional Guides and Outfitters Asc? Or the ND Hoptiality Asc.? Or the largest ND outdoor retailer? Or ND Farm Bureau? Or the ND Tourism Dept.?

Since all of them stand to gain and have testified for no restrictions. Maybe they would put their money where their mouth is? Guess not.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Maybe the ND Chamber of Commerce? Or the Professional Guides and Outfitters Asc? Or the ND Hoptiality Asc.? Or the largest ND outdoor retailer? Or ND Farm Bureau? Or the ND Tourism Dept.?


How about the NDWF? Seems to me its members would get the most use of this land.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Why is there always a beef with the out-of-state buyer?

Why is there not more of a beef with the in-state seller?

What is the solution? Maybe you need to penalize the 
seller if the land was sold to an OOS? Maybe a higher
capital gains tax!


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

> Bob you and I have discussed this before and that is when people from your city come to my town you are really no different to us than someone from Mpls.


And that is what you fail to see G/O. We ARE different than those from Mpls, Chicago or where-ever. We are here helping to support you year round. We are buying eggs from the 4-Her just down the road or bringing our deer meat down to your small town butcher shop for process. We are the ones buying "Dakota Maid" pasta instead of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. We are the ones buying Valley City Pizza or Pugsley's sandwiches.

Although I live in Devils Lake, I have bought cars down in Wishek and Napoleon. Not because they were cheaper, but because it fit what I was looking for and I knew I was supporting small town ND.

You don't know me personally G/O, but I was in your neck of the woods in April of 1997 helping document and destroy all the cattle that was lost in the April Blizzard. I sure don't remember anyone from Mpls there helping pull dead calves out of a iced up pond, but I remember guys from Fargo, Valley City, and Grand Forks people down there.

Nobody knew me when I showed up in Esmond 2 years ago with my truck and chainsaws after straight line winds tore through the town either. Don't remember anyone from Mpls there.

The fact is, we are alot different. Sure some of those Mpls people were once ND natives, but for the most part the people coming into ND that use you as their hunting source or the ones buying up land from the 24 year old farmer trying to make a living, they are ALOT different than us.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Many NR's.....buy the eggs, buy the pasta, make return visits during off season times to spend a vacation.

Yes when disaster strikes many NR's are not there to help. I commend you on that :thumb: That is being a good person.

But one thing about the whole arguement of the NR buying up land for the 24 year old farmer is false. Because a farmer can do better by renting than owning the land. They don't have the huge mortgage payments to worry about alon with the tractor/equipment payments, start up loan payments (seed, fertilizer, etc.). This way they can build up some cash flow to purchase land.

But again it is not only the NR driving up the price of land but also the people from fargo (like g/o mentioned in his area). So again don't blame the NR for the farmers not making it. Because farmer can make a great living off renting the land.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> We are the ones buying "Dakota Maid" pasta instead of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese. We are the ones buying Valley City Pizza or Pugsley's sandwiches.


Do they Sell Valley City Pizza in Mpls.? Pugsleys sandwiches? Ever try and find Dakota Growers pasta in Mpls.? Cub Foods did not handle it when myself and some clients went looking for it. I sent them a few boxes full.

Like always we have gone way off subject. I will ask again. Why is it that the N/R land owners are suppose to open there lands and not the residents? Last year in the article on the land rush sale at Regent. They mentioned 4 of the buyers. One was a Rep. from the northern part of the state and he paid the most for the land. Another was from Alaska and one from Wisc. and another from the city where the forum comes out of. So what the Forum editorial is telling me is that the guys from Alaska and Wisc. that bought land should let hunters on. But its OK if the guys from ND keep there local residents out. Sorry I don't agree.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> Djleye, what are your facts on NR land ownership in ND?


Deacon,last I checked, I don't write for the forum and I didn't write that editorial. Therefore, it stands to reason that I don't have any stats on OOS ownership of ND land. Please show me where I said I did. I must be slipping up in my old age!! :eyeroll:

You gave me ownership adecdotes from two lake in western MN. There are actually a few more than that around. And, you also stated that those were ND people, not the big bad Fargo only people. Do you think that maybe there are actually a few farmers that are from the Enderlin, Oakes, Valley City, or Kindred area that might own a lake home or two?? :eyeroll:


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Chuck: You and I have gone rounds on this before and saying my statement on 24 year olds loosing farmland is false is just plain wrong.

I don't want to hijack this post and I most certainly don't need you to show me numbers because it doesn't work like you think it works. If it worked that easily we would see all these 24-30 year olds not complaining about it when we talk with them. My buddy just lost 320 acres of pasture down near Streeter to a man from Iowa. When asked about renting it for his cows, he was told "no way". Rent doesn't work if the landowner isn't willing to rent it and you can't show me a cow that will help pay the money it fetched. That 320 acres was prime grouse hunting land and is now posted. My buddy doesn't post anything except the stuff by the house. That is 320 acres YOU, I and everyone else lost to hunt and 320 acres he lost for his cattle operation.

If someone buys the land other than a farmer in that location. There is NO GUARANTEE that it will used for rent. In many cases it will, but that is fast becoming a non-issue. Most people buy land because of cost on return. The ones I see coming in now could care less about cost on return. Ask the boys from St. Cloud, MN that have inhabited Hiemdal, North Dakota. They are offering $1500-2000 an acre for land and nobody is getting to rent after the purchase.

Chuck: You can scratch it out on paper all you want, but if the absentee landowner isn't willing to rent, then your numbers are moot.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> Seems as you have missed the point I was trying to make and that its not only the Non Residents. Someday when you're down this way we will take a short drive and I will show you several parcels owned by people in your neck of the woods. Yes there has to be a better way but pointing the finger on N/R landowners isn't. Sweep you're own porch before you sweep another's.


G/O, ARe you sure no one peed in your wheaties??? 

Actually I didn't miss your point. I only was agreeing with the statements the forum made. I wish no land was posted. I wish that we all could wander around and hunt anywhere we pleased, but that is a fantasy and it takes time and effort to find people that are willing to allow you to pursue game on their property. I don't doubt that there are more than a few sections that are owned by the big bad Fargo guys. I wish that they would open their land as well. I think the point the Forum was trying to make was this would be a way that their maybe could be some fence mending by NR, whom the forum sees as the guys that sued ND. Right or wrong, I would love it.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> How about the NDWF? Seems to me its members would get the most use of this land.


The sportsmen, both R and NR have so far funded the whole PLOTS program, with one exception. :wink: Do you expect them to pay twice when others never have? Even the outfitters wouldn't ask that would they?

When the committees are taking testimony there lots of bold talkers from the commercializing crowd with grand plans for the wildlife and spending sportsman dollars, but they just can't seem to crack their own wallet open. They can't or won't even get their butts out of the easy chair to do a community access program which has no cash outlay. Pretty swift.


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

dljeye, you are right as always. I see from your other posts on this and other subjects you are quick point out how other's opinions are wrong and yours is right.

I never said people from "Fargo" own the majority of lake property in "MN", as you stated I had wrote. I wrote "people from Eastern ND own significant lake property in Becker and Otter Tail counties which have driven up the values." "That's a fact Jack!" When you have some facts to backup your claims please post, likewise I would appreciate if you did not miss quote me. thanks


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

lvs2hnt.....

You are 100% correct if the landowner does not want to rent it back....it is lost.

I know a few farmers (in my area) that started at 24 and that started out renting land and now own thousands of acres. yes I said own thousands now that they are 35 years old. I also know of farmers that started out at 24 renting land and owning a couple of hundred acres now! And to let you know in my area land is selling for $2400 to $3000 per acre. Most of the farmers I have mentioned above are still growing and renting more acres!

But again if the land owner is not willing to rent land back it is lost. I agree 100%. But a R can do the same as a NR land owner. But in your instance it is the NR. I can not argue that point. But my main thing is a farmer can still make money when they rent......but that is all determined if the absentee landowner will rent it back. Great point that is sometimes lost.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Dick, Lets be realistic here, my referring to the NDWF paying for a PLOTS isn't going to happen because its not allowed to. Or is the NDPGOA, hospitality,Tourism Dept, However the retailer would and I honestly believe if approached they would Forum if they are so concerned could also. Maybe I will, there money is as good as any.



> They can't or won't even get their butts out of the easy chair to do a community access program which has no cash outlay. Pretty swift.


There is a money commitment that goes along with the program. You and both know if no one takes the bull by the horns things never get done. Its easy as you to sit around and complain or get on this site and write about it. If you want things you have to go out and do it yourself or it may never get done.

djleye,


> Do you think that maybe there are actually a few farmers that are from the Enderlin, Oakes, Valley City, or Kindred area that might own a lake home or two??


 Shhhhhhhhh it's all guys from you know where.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> I agree with G/O, what about all the guys from eastern ND that buy and lease land?


g/o was talking about guys from Fargo, you agreed, any other questions.

I thought once I was wrong, I was mistaken!!![/quote]


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

> Shhhhhhhhh it's all guys from you know where.


 Where Edgley or is it Pembina, Mott or Beach? :eyeroll:


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> g/o was talking about guys from Fargo, you agreed, any other questions.


Never once in ant of my posts did I say that word. You is wrong big guy :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

The letter makes it sound like hunting land id comparable to a golf course. When you aren't playing, let every one else play.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> Someday when you're down this way we will take a short drive and I will show you several parcels owned by people in your neck of the woods.


So now, "neck of the woods" doesn't mean Fargo????? :eyeroll: Where in specific were you talking about????


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

[/quote]So now, "neck of the woods" doesn't mean Fargo????? Where in specific were you talking about????


> Where do you live? You have always bragged about being West of that other place. You have always said you're from the western part of the state. Neck of the woods would be in the area of which you reside.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

While we are on the subject...Where are you from g/o?? You don't have anything to hide do you?? NO...I didn't think so. So what town do you call home??


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now, "neck of the woods" doesn't mean Fargo????? Where in specific were you talking about???? Quote:

Where do you live? You have always bragged about being West of that other place. You have always said you're from the western part of the state. Neck of the woods would be in the area of which you reside.

[/quote]

???????????????? I am in West Fargo, Gods country.......Whendid I say I was from the western part of the stste???? I don't get that comment!!!


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

Boy, I cannot wait for the waterfowl season to start.... :beer:


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

There is no one scenerio in this story. I am in the process of remodeling a large grainery into a hunting cabin. The owners are from Minn. They purchesed about 200 acres. Some of it was in CRP and some was farmed. The farmer that rented the land from the previous owner stopped by to talk to me last week while I was working. He was very upset that he was out bid for the land.He had hoped to expand his operation and needed that land. It had good water for his cattle and some pasture. He told me he was hemmed in and short of water. Not good for the farmer.It will be posted tight.

On the other hand remember I told you about the multimillionaire that bought a full section sight unseen? This land was in CRP for many years and never posted. He told me he wanted to do somthing for the ducks. I drove by it a few days ago. It was mowed and grazed so heavy there was not a blade of grass left. It is rented to a local farmer/rancher. Not all farmers are good stewards of the land. It is posted with yellow signs(strictly forbidden). The farmer is expanding.
You cant and shouldnt regulate who gets to buy the land. Its not free enterprize nor the American way. I do know one thing a farmer would rather own the land than rent it. Sometimes it is not economically possible. It is not only hunting areas that are experiencing this problem. I have family that farms in the valley. They just told me about someone buying huge acreges near Whapeton. This person is buying whole farms and not really caring what he pays. Im sure he has to turn the money or pay it in taxes.
HPC would been good for the farmer in the marginal farming/hunting area but they failed to recongize this. It would not been good for the farmer that wanted to sell out. There are no easy answers. I'm going hunting now see ya later.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Whendid I say I was from the western part of the stste???? I don't get that comment!!!


That is the problem with you Delta guys you have a short memory!!! Once when I was referring to the western part of the state you wanted in, and I informed you it is no longer west of I-29 but Hwy 18. Just like jhegg promised to come help put up signs. Tomorrow I have inspection so I'll have to do it. You Delta guys are all a like. :evil:


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Come on, g/o...."Delta Guys?". In the words of Frank on "Everyone Loves Raymond" "WHOLLY CRAP!!" I always do my best not to get generalize Outfitters.....I think our organ. deserves a little better than that. I haven't read all the posts in this thread because they are getting a little old.....year after year....and it's the same thing only with a different thread title.

I'm going to generalize now. The outfitters as a whole haven't changed much of their views and neither have the sportsmen. I guess the whole legislative session in 2007 is going to be a repeat of the 2005, and the 2003 sessions. No wonder the polititians get sick of all this crap.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

G/O, All you had to do was ask........!!!!!!!! Did you call any of us for help????? I did no hunting this weekend and actually had lots of free time.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> But one thing about the whole arguement of the NR buying up land for the 24 year old farmer is false. Because a farmer can do better by renting than owning the land. They don't have the huge mortgage payments to worry about alon with the tractor/equipment payments, start up loan payments (seed, fertilizer, etc.). This way they can build up some cash flow to purchase land.


Chuck, correct me if I am wrong, but didn't you just go in an entire circle there. You said that nonresidents buying up land didn't hurt the young farmer, because they are better off renting and saving money. Then they can buy land. What magic happened that opened up that land while the young farmer was renting? Even if they were saving money ten years later when they can afford to buy the land has appreciated another $200 an acre. It isn't getting cheaper.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

If history does repete itself, g/o will turn the question and make other/alternative comments. If I am wrong, that is great; than he replied with answer to the actual question.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> You cant and shouldnt regulate who gets to buy the land.


The point from the sportsman's perspective is that the legislature furnishes, even encourages, NR ag land purchases with an unlimited number of licenses. Fewer licenses, fewer purchases. If that number had been capped with HPC in 2003 or '05, or even the Sportsman's Alliance bill in '01, the incentive to buy the land and bank the money out-of-state would have been removed.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> If that number had been capped with HPC in 2003 or '05,


Dick, And what would that number be? If we had HPC would we really have sold less n/r licenses than we did. If so how many?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

From what I have heard....no proof.....the number of licenses would have been similar to what was sold.This year would have been interesting depending on when the number would have been selected.

But that's not the point.The point Dick is making is that there would be no certainty as to what the number would be.It would change every year.So maybe NR wouldn't buy land with no guaeantee they would recieve a license.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman let me explain in more detail....

A farmer can save up money: Instead of paying $1000 per month for a mortgage they can save over 1/2 of that just by renting. So let just say they save $6000 a year that they would not have spent on a mortgage.....then in ten years they have $60,000 save up. Now that is a great down payment! Plus farmers can get loans where they dont need to have down payments through special programs. So they have $60,000 to pay the mortgage plus the $500 they are saving on the land they are previous renting, plus the income off the new land purchase.

Yes if land values rise they won't be able to buy as much land. But they will still be able to purchase land and keep amassing land. ALso I know farmers would rather own the land than rent it. But with the price or land, fertilizer, new tractors, start up costs, insurance, etc. It is more economically feasable for a young farmer to get started out by renting land than owning it.

Here is my back ground of experience.....I am a Real Estate Broker, Property Manager, and Insurance Salesman.

I sell real estate. I sell crop, farm, etc. insurance. I also help landowners manage properties. This ranges from Land to apartments. I help find these absentee land owners farmers who want to rent land. I help these farmers negotiate rental prices. I help the land owners realize what return they can expect.

So I am well qualified in what I am talking about. I talk with farmers almost on a daily basis in my area. I know how some are making it and how some are not.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Dick and Ken,

Very good points. But a cap on lisc sales would effect the NR sportsman buying up the land. The NR investor will still be amassing land in ND.

Just like other examples in other posts. Investors are selling land in IL for $4-5K. So instead of getting drilled with cap gain taxes they are looking else where to buy land......ie ND. So they can get more land for less. Then hopefully in 5-10 years sell that land for another profit!

Now would the NR investor put lands in PLOTS or CRP if they could get a better return on rent? More sportsman would be inclined to put lands into conservation and hunting programs than an investor.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

From where I'm looking after scouting many areas it won't matter after this year. There are going to one hell of a lot of NR and R hunters than may not come back for a while after the see the situation this year. The VAST MAJORITY of the state is DRY!!! I really don't have a clue as to where 30,000 NR waterfowlers are going to hunt. Many NRs are looking at the rainfall charts...they don't mean anything...there is virtually NO water. The water that is left will be hunted and the resources exhasted well before most of the NRs get here.

Don't believe me. Wait until you see the drought when you get here.


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## Blue Plate (Jul 31, 2006)

Infidels, Hear me now, there are no ducks here!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Many NRs are looking at the rainfall charts...they don't mean anything...there is virtually NO water. The water that is left will be hunted and the resources exhausted well before most of the NRs get here.
> 
> Don't believe me. Wait until you see the drought when you get here.


I couldn't agree with you more!!!! The only chance there will be for ducks this year will be very late cornfield hunting and that's always only a maybe.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Wait until you see te areas that are hailed out and the corn is already disked under. These fields are off limits and considered baited. They will hold the few ducksa that are around and this is the first time this particular farmer hasn't posted his land. Beware the unposted hailed out corn fields. The feds are already aware of them, and I believe will catch someone on them at some point this year!!!

Dry is right Field Hunter. You should see the area we scouted last night for the youth hunt. The large water is still there but it will get hammered quickly!!!


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