# Doe only rifle season in North Dakota



## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

At the recent G&F board meeting in Valley City someone brought up the topic of a doe only season in N.D. Most at the meeting would support it.

I have been hounding the G&F since the 80's to not issue buck tags during the rifle season for two years but I have never heard a responce. Now it has been brought up at a Advisory meeting with most in attendance agreeing with it. This would solve alot of problems and would make for some great hunting in years to come.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Do we want to be known as a great deer hunting state too? The lottery is OK, and we do give a decent preference to residents yet but if we had a state full of trophy deer the big outfitters would have the whole state leased up. We wouldn't get a deer at all then unless they let us in to cull out a few does or crap bucks.

There are no big deer in ND.... :lol:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I agree with Buckseye...a doe only season isn't necessary....do we really want to become another Kansas?

Rest assured there will be G/O bills in the legislature to increase the number of non-res. buck tags....maybe even something as dumb as last time's bill to allow landowners to sell their gratis permits.


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## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

I suppose you are right the good for all would end up being Great for a few.

I keep forgetting about the outfitter thing I just don't see it as a problem yet where I hunt.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I hope you never see the impact of the o/g's Mossback. The whole NE side of JClark Salyer NWR is owned and leased by o/g's, the only real good part is they bait alot and many people short stop them on the refuge side of the fence. The same thing happens to me all the time and I am mostly out there just to see deer.

The refuge hunt has changed tremendously in the last year or two and I plan on trying for a doe in there next year. The people who sport hunt the refuge are mostly ******** and they will not wave or say hello when face to face is why I don't like the refuge hunt anymore. It's OK to be a serious sport hunter but jeeez when the fun and friendships stop so do I. 8)

This year there was a group from NY or PA that had made the JClark Salyer NWR their own little paradise, they drove past the no vehicle signs and set up a daycamp for guiding. I don't know how many clients they ran through before the enforcement officers caugt them but they were having such a great hunt they bought a house in town. I wish they would have taken their vehicle and equipment like they would have if a local did that. There are slimey creeps everywhere just waiting to take advantage.


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## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

KEN W said:


> do we really want to become another Kansas?


Have you ever seen the world class bucks that come out of Kansas?


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## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

Buckseye, that is sad I totally see your point. I just love dreaming about those monster bucks.

I come up whith this s#it every year. Just must be the end of hunting season is nearing us.

post hunting season depression disorder.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Move to Kansas! I've been hunting the last three weeks in a zone very close to the most heavily populated city in ND and I've seen some of the largest racked deer I've ever seen....and lots of them. AND, only one of them.has been on posted land. I think the GnF is doing a great job with the deer...they've just lacked a little help from mother nature the last 4 years.

Give the outfitters more licenses or have a doe only season and you'll see more posted and leased land than you ever thought was possible.


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## Powder (Sep 9, 2003)

While having a doe only season for the whole year is unnecessary but what about a doe only sesaon two weeks before the regular season? It's similar to the extension they put on at the end of the year except that you can hunt when the weather is decent. This is already done in Wisconsin.


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## Shu (Oct 21, 2003)

Powder, it works for managing the herd but it sure decreases the number of bucks you see when the regular season starts. I've hunted deer in WI for 20 yrs and the first T zone hunt had this impact on the regular season. I think more doe permits works better IMO.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Mossback for PHSDD there is no remedy.... only a cure but that don't come till next year. :lol:


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I think there is a good chance it may backfire too. I love deer hunting but don't feel the incentive to hunt deer when I hold only a doe tag vs a buck tag. I'm sure there are many more hunters out there like me. Truth is people will work a lot harder for a buck than a doe. Actually I think making ALL doe tags an any season tag would have as good or better results.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

12


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## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

Field Hunter said:


> I've seen some of the largest racked deer I've ever seen....and lots of them.


Yeah, ND produces lots of large racked deer big deal. I'm talking about 200 class b&c. "World class bucks" like I said in my earlier post.

Kansas, Illinois, Ohio, Iowa. those states Management practices allow the bucks to grow to those proportions.

That will never happen in in North Dakota I have come to terms with that but North Dakota could produce those kind of Bucks and does but very very few.

I just like to test the waters after hunting season to see what other people think.

I have seen one 200 class deer on the hoof in N.D. in my life a few 150 class lots of 130-140 class.

Seeing that 200 class buck was the most incredible thing that has ever happened to me next to my childern being born. It would be cool to have a few more of those bad boys running around our Great State.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Wow I've never seen a deer that big, sure would love to tho.


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

Do it like manitoba. I believe the first 2 weeks are does and fawns..the last week, anything goes. Or is it the first week does and fawns, 2nd week bucks, 3rd week anything....can't remember :withstupid:

I haven't thought about it much, but i do agree with the outfitter problem coming hard with the doe only season.


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## rifleman (Jan 22, 2004)

Buckseye,

I hope you contacted the enforcement folks with information about the guides and what they were doing illegally on that refuge. There aren't enough wardens for the huge areas they have to cover so they could use a little help like getting some accurate information about violations.


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

Buckseye, our farm is exactly 3 miles east of the refuge and 2 miles south of the canadian boarder, grew up there all my life! I can gaaruntee that some of your information is in-accurate!

I know EVERY piece of land in that area and who the landowners are, this land IS NOT OWNED by outfitters! There are some outfitters that hunt some of it, but they do not have exclusive rights, they get permission the same as everyone else.

As far as the refuge problem you mentioned, yes I agree with you. That is a big problem. I have personnally turned in hunters for driving on that refuge and doing illegal activities, that is our PR job also! I can't say that I have seen it with deer hunting before, but with waterfowl hunters. They will drive right in to lauch boats and then hunt illegally out of the boats.

Ken W hunted that area this past season, what did you observe there Ken?
The landowners in that area post heavy and hunt hard, but most will let you on if you ask!


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

Mossback think about 3 of the for states you mentioned. Ohio, Iowa, and Illinois don't allow rifle hunting. If we stopped all highpowered rifle hunting for deer in ND we would have so many big bucks we could all hit 2 or 3 with our cars every year. The other state you mentioned, Kansas didn't allow nonresidents until about 10 years ago. Now you and I can't hunt there for less than $3000.

I have the opinion that ND should keep the hunting tradition for the common folks and not manage for trophy potential. I do think we could have a separate doe season but I'd like it during Muzzleloader season. I would like to see muzzleloader changed to before regular gun season.


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## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

I know their firearms season is shotgun only but they do not have it during the rut and they are short and some units or counties are micro managed for the number of deer that need to be harvested.

The early muzzle loader season would really put bowhunters up in arms. that is the prime time to kill a big buck with a bow.

Maybe a split season for Muzzle loader a 10 day season in Oct. and a 10 day season in Dec. and you would have to apply for one or the other that way you could reduce the number of Muzzle loaders out in Oct. I could live with that.


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## Powder (Sep 9, 2003)

Ken were you guiding again????? :lol:

I know I've been on some of his guided hunting trips in the past and we always did well!


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

This "extra" season should be more of a slaughter than a hunt. I saw between 50-100 deer between Bismarck and Butte yesterday from 1-4 in the afternoon. They were just standing in the snow, plain as day.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Guiding????me????I have a tough enough time getting one for myself,much less someone else.

Powder...hopefully you and your dad can get drawn next year.

Trapper....buckseye lives down by Upham...I think he meant SE side of the refuge north of Towner in the sandhills.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Yep the southeast between Towner & Willow , sorry... the way the river angles one side is NE and the other is SW. Hey trapper you must know Shovelhead then, say hi when ya see him for me.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Buckseye...those G/O are the ones the gnf complains about baiting the deer off the refuge and then asking for money because of depredation to their hay yards aren't they. :eyeroll:

We have to change that law.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

I can't even count the number of times this has come up this year....

I also see the same people answering the same STUPID debate.

I hear more people talk that they like to shoot does. They are meat hunters not trophy hunters. My wife has a daycare, we use that meat to feed 12 kids a day 4 monthes out of the year. At $1 a pound vs $3 a pound for store meat figure it out. If you don't want your meat let me know.

There are at least a dozen guys I have talked to at work or on the street (read as "in public") that didn't fill at least one or two tags and would like the oppuritunity to fill these tags. Everyone of them had a tough year hunting. With the amount of fields still up and the heat, they didn't have the success they wanted, the GNF saw that and are giving these guys a chance.

The ones who have responded to this "discussion" so far, I would class as "trophy" hunters. If you want your trophy, then guess what, you have to rely on the lottery system of getting your buck tag the same as eveyone else. To get that trophy takes lots of time in the field, and a little bit of luck. If your reading this, you ain' looking for that buck.  :wink:

If a 4X4 or 5X5 buck ain't big enough, I saw 4 deer in that class on public land this year, then I am sorry. Maybe you will not be satisfied until you get your World record Turdy point buck.

I thought I had a crud seaon this year, so far all I got was a nice little button, my wife convinced me otherwise. When was the last time you took your wife deer hunting and got to spend the weekend enjoying nature with her? (Let's hear the comments on "How to tell a button at 30 yards at a dead run.")

Or taught a new hunter the joys of the woods for the first time?

Or taking your daughter squirrel hunting for her first time?

GNF is doing a good job, Mother Nature is being a little slack on her side right now, but I don't think there is anyone that will be able to change that part.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Yep... they also send their hunters into the refuge and that is also illegal. Last year one of the 'secret' guides hunters were digging pits in the refuge to hunt deer out of, I think they were drunk all the time.

Another topic I don't think is fair is refuge workers being able to hunt the refuge they work on. It is unfair to us that they get to drive around inside the refuge and scout with government vehicles. I watched one use a gov vehicle to carry his stand in and put it up, of course they don't have to take them down every night either, I didn't see him carry it out every day anyway. No matter where we go there are people taking advantage of the system. :eyeroll:

I have never seen so many people out driving around in the refuge as I did this year.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

"


> How to tell a button at 30 yards at a dead run.")


Throat patch.


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## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

farmerj said:


> (Let's hear the comments on "How to tell a button at 30 yards at a dead run.")


I would be glad to help you out farmerj

#1 if it is running with it's tail down don't shoot
#2 small body
#3 small head
#4 short snout

Shooting does is just like shooting big bucks if there is a any doubt in your mind don't pull the trigger.

hope that helps.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

buckseye said:


> "
> 
> 
> > How to tell a button at 30 yards at a dead run.")
> ...


Just looked at mine...
had a dark patch, but so do does.


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

Buckseye,

Okay I retract my statement!

Yeah I know Terry, He grew up a ways east of me. Believe he is now in the resturant business?

Usually see him off and on at Cenex in Westhope will say hi!


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## rifleman (Jan 22, 2004)

Buckseye,

If you are seeing these things, report them to the right folks so they can do something about it. Posting statements on a website really isn't going to stop the problem.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Wow on the dark throat patch, never seen one on a whitetail. The buck has a noticeably larger throat patch, normaly white.

Rifleman...I just can't get myself to make the call. The people who need to know probaly read this anyway. But I do know what you mean.

Trapper....The Rooster burned down and Shovelhead is back farming fulltime I think. It is the southeast side of the loop so you are right. I posted a website that names the o/g's that are tieing up the land.

Have a good one all.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

buckseye said:


> Wow on the dark throat patch, never seen one on a whitetail. The buck has a noticeably larger throat patch, normaly white.


Am looking at cutting it up in the morning, will take a picture before I start.


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## Anas Strepera (Nov 10, 2004)

I wish MN would have a doe season first, and then have a season for bucks. Kinda like IA does it.:run:


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

Buckseye, Yep on the Roster but I heard he had purchased another resturant/supper club in the Antler/Sherwood area?


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I see a few potential problems with a doe only season. If you hold it before the buck season I still don't think you will gain that much more access for fear of running the bucks off or making them more wary. We will lose nearly as many spikes and small forkhorns as we do now. Those are the most vulnerable to accidental shootings. With a combined season there is at least a chance some of those will be tagged rather than left to rot. How about undue stress on the deer??? Now we are talking about a two week doe season then a two or three week buck season (you know we won't be happy with a week). On a year like this it probably is not a problem but if the season starts as harsh as many have it could cause undo stress on the whole deer population. We have more large bucks than many people realize. When 2C used to be a split season unit I always hunted the second season and saw far more (and larger) buck than I did pushing for guys in the early season. If you want to give bucks a better chance to survive, outlaw the high powered rifles and go shotguns, handguns and muzzleloaders or even single shot rifles. That is part of the reasoning in MN shotgun zones. I can imagine that would be as popular here as a truckload of manure (though it sounds great to me). In regards to that 200 class trophy, what made that buck special??? I'll tell you what. The fact that it was the only one ever seen. When a trophy becomes commonplace it is no longer a trophy. Used to be a 120 class buck was a great deer in ND. Know they are all over the place and we are disapointed if we don't see a dozen 150s, 160s or even the 200 class bucks.


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## MOSSBACK (Jun 10, 2004)

DS2- I was not thinking of a special doe season I was talking about suspending all rifle buck tags for at least one year two would be better. To try and even out the buck doe ratio. It would force people who apply for only one buck tag to hunt does for a year or two and the game and fish would be able to issue all the doe tags that are available and should be able to reach harvest goals without having to extend the rifle season like they are going to do this year.

I like your idea of shotgun or muzzleloader for bucks during the rut say a 10 1/2 day season. then a 3 day rifle season in Early Dec.

But like you said that would go over like a fart in church.


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