# Attn MN hunters



## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

Below relates to the proposed MN dove season. Would be nice to get this one passed.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Weber [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 1:50 PM

Subject: RE: DOVE HUNTING BILL IN JEOPARDY - - - Its time to get going!

Gentlemen,
Attached is an email from my friend Rep. Joe Hoppe(R-34B). The bill
that was defeated in the House yesterday was the more palatable of the
two that are on the table in that body. It was defeated due to
aggressive tactics by the Humane Society and inactivity on the part of
some legislators (and, unfortunately, some sportsmen and women). 
To see what the HSUS is doing, check this out -
http://www.hsus.org/ace/18569

The legal harvest of an abundant resource is being summarily hijacked by
a well-organized and vocal anti-hunting organization. They are winning
this battle, and all who support the right to hunt and fish are losing.
Ordinarily I don't trouble people with emails - we all have too much to
do already. However, this is important. It is a big deal not only on
its impact to those of us who would like the opportunity to hunt this
resource, but it is also a big deal in the precedence that it sets for
the Antis' interaction with our legislative body.
I am asking for two things from you:

1) PLEASE write your state legislators an email and let them know where
you stand. The following link will tell you who your specific
legislators are and will provide you with the ability to email them. It
is completely simple, and will take you no more than 5 minutes - 
http://capwiz.com/umn/officials/state/?state=MN

2) PLEASE pass this email on. The tide has turned against us, and we
are running out of time. Please forward this and get this in the hands
of folks that will help us get this important piece of legislation
through. WE NEED TO ACT, AND NEED TO ACT NOW.
As Minnesota hunters, we should not stand idly by and let Humane Society
dictate our hunting and fishing statues. For no more than 10 minutes of
your time, you can do a lot to prevent this.
Please contact me if you have any questions or concerns. Let's get this
thing done.

Web

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Hoppe [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:12 PM
To: Weber, Mike
Subject: Sid,

Web,

Sorry for the delay. Our system was down this morning for an upgrade
and I have been in meetings since.

Yesterday the House Ways and Means Committee defeated the Dove Hunting
bill that had stamps attached to it. The Senate version of the bill is
on the Senate floor and should pass.

In the House, there is still a version of the bill that is alive. It
is in the DNR Game and Fish bill that I am carrying. It does not
contain language that would provide for a stamp, but it would give us a
dove hunting season.

We need to let concerned sportsmen know that dove hunting is in
jeopardy. Senators and Representatives are getting as many as 20
emails, letters, and phone calls per day against dove hunting. The
people that are contacting their legislators are anti-hunting and
anti-gun. They are very well organized. Most of them are using
language that was sent out by the U.S. Humane Society. They are doing a
good job of persuading people to vote against dove hunting.

Sportsmen can still save dove hunting if they act now. We need to have
all concerned sportsmen contact their legislators ASAP and tell them to
support dove hunting.

Some points in favor of dove hunting:

According to the DNR there is no biological reason against dove
hunting. Doves in Minnesota currently have an approximately 50% yearly
mortality rate. Hunting will not change that rate.

Doves are the most widely hunted game bird in the U.S., currently
hunted in 39 states. Iowa's governor vetoed dove hunting last year
after it passed both houses of the legislature with bi-partisan support.
The Wisconsin DNR is planning a dove season this year beginning Sept.
1.

Economic help for rural Minnesota. Sales of ammunition, gas, motels,
food, etc.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service considers the Mourning Dove to be a
gamebird.

Minnesota raised doves are already being hunted in other states. They
winter from Texas to Florida and are hunted in many of the states they
migrate through.

The DNR supports dove hunting and the Governor has said that he will
sign a bill making dove hunting legal.

Joe Hoppe
State Representative
House District 34B

537 State Office Building
100 Dr. Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd
St. Paul, MN 55155
Office (651) 296-5066
Fax (651) 296-8803
[email protected]

Sign up for my Legislative Update at
www.house.mn/34B


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

They should have gotten an etree! Once again ND is ahead of the pack.


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

Qwack

Is this dove hunting proposal going to turn into a big deal in Minnesota? I'm not trying to start a major discussion on the issue but I have talked to many hunters in Mn and they would like to see dove hunting but would not pursue dove solely like ducks on opener or pheasants on opener. They would become a bird of opportunity, and taken only because they flew by or something to that extent. Now I grew up in Az and always hunted dove and still do every fall around Thanksgiving along with quail and waterfowl, but it is part of my mixed bag hunting while there. Out there it is enjoyable to be out at the crack of dawn when hundreds of dove are whirling around the sky coming from all directions and to be able to bag your ten bird limit within an hour giving you time to then hunt quail, but for one thing dove isn't the best tasting meat out there and in Minnesota there just isn't any places where there are really concentrated populations of dove around. Granted I would love to have a season here because I run into a dove or two when hunting other game but again it would be a hunt of opportunity and not something that one would solely pursue....not to say that it CANNOT be done, but that the impracticality of it would be quite high. And since there hasn't been a season for nearly sixty years here I really think that more sportsman need to step up to the plate to support a season IF AND ONLY IF they are really serious about one because the anti-hunting groups have enough backers and a long history of a closed dove season that it would take a lot of support and dedication to thwart their effort to keep the season closed. If a majority of sportsmen did back such an effort then of course I would definitly help support the issue, but as of now it seems to me that such an effort would be futile and may cause more support for a continued closed season due to the lack of support for a season.
FACE :lol:


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## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

Face,

Surprised to hear you say you don't think dove tastes good. I've always thought they were the tastiest gamebirds out there. Kind of reminds me of filet if cooked right.

I have no idea how seriously MN hunters would pursue doves. I have talked to one guy who thought it would be something to do in Sept other than hunt resident geese. I can't see it being much of an alternative bird--I would imagine that most have migrated by the time duck & pheasant seasons open. I guess you could hunt them while hunting the early goose season but you would have to use steel shot.

I believe the issue of a dove season has been brought up several times over the years and it looked like this year it had a chance of passing. I think hunters should support the right to hunt, regardless of whether they will pursue the game in question. Getting this passed would be a victory for hunters and a defeat for the anti's IMO.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Face if you hunt doves in Az then you must know how much fun a good dove shoot is. Man you Minn guys are missing the boat. Im sure with some scouting you can find excellent dove hunting in many parts of the state. I know the Red River valley on the Minn side has good numbers. A cattle pond shoot or out in a field where they are feeding lotsa fun. I hope you guys get toghether and get it passed you need all the hunting you can get.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I have always thought Dove breast wraped in Bacon (use a toothpick to hold it on) & put it on the grill - Is the best wild game I have ever had.

Back in the drought years. I went out with three other guys & I had the only dog - a Lab named Maggie - She was awesome - anyway we just went a few miles north of GF & there was a beet field that had alot of weeds in it - & it was really dry - all the weed seeds were inbetween the rows & the doves were thick. It was really windy that day & we spread out & walked down one side of the field & back up the other. We shot 60 doves & Maggie retrieved everyone & of course brought them all to me. the game pouch on the back of my vest was full.

I think all of us shot about 2 boxes of shells - so 60 out of 200 shots - when we got home, we were having a neighborhood block party & we breasted them & did the bacon & grill thing & brought them to the party (Hors d'ourves) & everyone loved them. Some were skeptical to try them, but after tasting them, all liked them.

It is, for the money, the best sport in hunting today. Tough targets - don't have to spend alot on gas or shells - low brass lead 8's around $4 a box. & a great tune up for any Dog & Hunter.

I've done alot of dove hunting since then. Walk around a sunflower field, or find a water hole & sit & pass shoot, is Great Fun.

It's funny how after a few weeks, there are more doves in town, than around town


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

OK,OK! Dove to me isn't the best tasting meat, mearn's quail is!!!! but it certaintly isn't the worst either. It ranks high on my list too but to me there are better game meats. And yes Old Hunter dove hunting is quite fun but not my only reason to hunt them. I'm living in Owatonna, Mn and there are doves around but not real huntable numbers or much habitat for them. I have never hunted anything around the Mn RRV so I cannot say what the dove population is but that is to far for me to go just for a Mn dove hunt.Besides AZ takes care of my dove hunt for the year. Usually sixty to eighty birds bagged between my brother and me. Then it's time devoted to the three species of quail, waterfowl, and varmints, and of course some family time with the bros family, but mostly two solid weeks of nonstop bird hunting!!!!  Then it's back home for some more non stop bird hunting...Grouse and Iowa pheasant!!! But anyway i sure hope that a MN dove season would pass but it doesn't sound as though there is much support or involvment in moving forward for one. Of course I could be wrong! The most info I get about these things are from Outdoor news and other such publications. This fall I am definately hitting SD for sharpies and while we are out try to knock down a few doves.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

HOUSE: Committee shoots down dove hunting
Duluth News Tribune

A bill that would have created a hunting season for mourning doves was shot down on a 10-9 vote in the Minnesota House Ways and Means Committee on Thursday. A similar measure had cleared a Senate Natural Resources Committee by one vote.

The bill would have allowed the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources to set a new season. Approval of the measure would have put it on the House floor for a vote.

The measure also sought to increase the cost of hunting and fishing stamps to $7.50 and allocate proceeds from mourning dove stamps to improving nongame habitat.

While some lawmakers said they didn't like the stamp increase or the departure from state policy that allows game-stamp proceeds to benefit nongame habitat, others said they were fundamentally opposed to shooting doves for sport.

"My understanding of this is hunters want some little birds (so) they can practice shooting," said Rep. Alice Seagren, R-Bloomington. "I have never seen the value of going forward with mourning dove hunting. We can practice on skeet. We don't need to practice on wild birds."

The measure still has a chance to become law because it is part of the House's fish and game omnibus bill, without the stamp provisions.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Fetch said:


> "My understanding of this is hunters want some little birds (so) they can practice shooting," said Rep. Alice Seagren, R-Bloomington. "I have never seen the value of going forward with mourning dove hunting. We can practice on skeet. We don't need to practice on wild birds."


Wow. I'd hate to have her as my representative!


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

> "My understanding of this is hunters want some little birds (so) they can practice shooting," said Rep. Alice Seagren, R-Bloomington. "I have never seen the value of going forward with mourning dove hunting. We can practice on skeet. We don't need to practice on wild birds."


I believe she would most likely qualify as an "Anti" :eyeroll:


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

Believe it or not but if you ask hunters "why would you like to hunt dove?" a lot of them would say exactly what Alice Seagrem said which is very unfortunate but she didn't say anything wrong.Believe me, I have asked and that is the response I get! Just try it someday. However using that as an excuse to stop a bill from being approved seems to be as Bioman stated very anti. Those that would like to shoot at small targets should shoot clays and let those that would like to hunt ban together and pursue hunting seasons and encourage those that just want to "shoot" to stay out of the effort to pass a season because the antis love attitudes like this to keep reps like Alice to keep opposing these proposals.


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

Face:

When I lived in North Dakota, I do believe that the typical hunter was of the opinion that dove hunting just afforded a chance to knock some rust off the gun and brush up on their shooting. However, after moving to California and being immersed into the sport, I think most hunters are overlooking an excellent hunting opportunity. If you look at Arizona and California, it is one of the highest participated hunting activities.

I think the biggest problem in No. Dak. (and I'm sure Minnesota would experience similar problems) is that if a cold snap settles in late-August, most doves migrate out of the area. Additionally, most local hunters would rather chase sharptails and huns in September or hammer some late season walleyes. I mean really, who can blame them.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

bioman said:


> Additionally, most local hunters would rather chase sharptails and huns in September or hammer some late season walleyes. I mean really, who can blame them.


...Don't forget about early season Honkers! :lol: I'll go out and shoot a couple doves each year but never really have the time. When I'm going hunting I'm either hunting for geese or scouting for geese. Plus, there's only been a couple times where I've found doves in big enough concentrations to hunt them using the 'traditional' method.

It's always nice to see additional oppurtunities opened up for hunters, too bad this didn't pass.


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

Doves are really fun to hunt. I used to do it all the time before September honkers. I think you are right that most guys look at them as practice, but I know they taste way better than a clay pidgeon


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

Matt:

I guess I somewhat dated my departure from the borders of No. Dak.  I never had the opportunity to shoot the big blacks in September, but I sure envy those of you that get the opportunity :sniper:


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## MACBARN (Aug 1, 2002)

I have sold over 600 doz. dove decoy in the past years to Herters and Dunns.I sell them in kits or put together. Call 701 252 1586 for info or to order.Sandy Barnes. ps.Dove hunting in the USA is the biggest shooting sport shot shell makers love us.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Anyone know how many times exactly dove hunting has come up and been defeated in the MN legislature? I'd be curious to know the exact number, but it's been a bunch, and it just floors me why this fails time and again.

This is the perfect example of why sportspersons need to get and stay informed and involved on these issues and the legislative process. While ND has more people with rural roots and thus more connected to hunting, the vast majority of legislators do not (or their spouses) hunt regularly or maybe only one species on a very limited basis. It's amazing the reaction or impressions of many the ND legislators on the hunting issues, as they just don't have the knowledge or experience you get only through direct contact with hunting. They won't support a bill or an agenda if they don't understand the issues.

Never pass up a chance to speak with a legislator about hunting. Never assume a legislator has a base of hunting knowledge equal to that you gained your first season, let alone that which you've gained over the years. As a whole, they're a very bright group, the vast majority just aren't connected to hunting.

MN hunters need to organized and active or things like bear baiting are going to be next.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Doves were great when I was fifteen, but I have to agree with the posts above. Now that Canada goose hunting is all September in both ND and MN - most do not care about doves.

Doves are certainly a big part of Southern hunters' traditions. In enables them to start hunting in early September. Their waterfowl, deer, and upland seasons often start more than 2 months later. Tradition is ND is fairly weak for many - just an opportunity to have some fun shooting.

Dan - correlation of lack of support for Dove hunting to lack of support on bear baiting is pretty lame. Based on your previous posts - you of all people should know better than to draw such general conclusions. The real danger to bear baiting is on Federal land - by the US Congress not MN legislature.

*That I agree needs to be fought by all.* If the anti-hunting group wins and bear baiting is banned on Federal land - what is next? ban of waterfowl hunting on WPAs? After all the "main" purpose of a WPA is production not hunting. Set your phone tree in motion guys. Call Dorgan and Conrad.

By the way, it was a Minnesota based organization (PF) that has fought the hardest to protect the CRP acres in all states. MNs certainly fight hard to protect habitat, etc... Those in ND participated too... all benefited from the result.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

PH, my reference to bear baiting was for example purposes, not intended to suggest that I think such a ban is imminent. MN and its legislature has become more and more urbanized (So has ND's to a different and lesser scale). When that happens, there's less consideration given to hunting issues since there's less of a connection to hunting.

Whether you enjoy or would participate in dove hunting isn't the point. How many states allow dove hunting - it's not exactly cutting edge stuff. The fact that the MN legislature has consistently resisted dove hunting in recent sessions for, as far as I can tell, reasons unrelated to biology, pressure or any other objective reason (other than it gives some the Wiley's), I think is indicative with how much the average MN legislator is disconnected with hunting and how much the average MN hunter is disconnected with his/her legislators.

As urbanization continues, without active sportspersons and sportspersons groups working together and with legislators (that takes more than sending in your dues check each year), I think you can expect less and less support for hunting issues, and you never know what might be next - lots of long-standing hunting practices on the block or now gone in some of the western states. And MN doesn't exactly have a reputation for being a haven for conservative traditionalists.

My point was that hunters need to stay informed, involved and active. We have and will continue to do so in ND. During my six years in the Twin Cities, I didn't see any of that going on other than what was done by the national organizations, and I think the dove thing is an example of what results.

By the way, are you ever going to lose that chip on your shoulder?


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

MN will introduce a prairie chicken season this fall (very limited number of permits/tags). Still this is very progressive in building interest in the bird and protecting the bird's remaining habitat.

MN has reduced their limits on sunfish and crappie in order to protect the resource.

I believe that MN people are certainly engaged in protecting their hunting interests, but also the resource and the habitat that is needed to support that resource.

Just like ND - this is not easy - commercial fishing (resorts) and agriculture have a large say also.

Maybe if you stuck around TC a little longer - one or more groups would have gathered your attention and hard working efforts.

By the way, the chip was knocked off by the recoil of a Winchester 1 and 3/4oz. high velocity #5 turkey load. A few turkeys in the freezer and I still have the MN season to go starting very, very soon.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

I saw on another site where reps were getting up to 50 e-mail from anti's against the dove bill and not a single e-mail in support of it. Pretty sad that the anti's were able to so easily defeat this bill due to apathy on part of sportsmen. You'd think getting a couple hundred e-mails would be easy with the amount of hunters in MN.

*Anti's step up efforts against dove hunting*

Conservation groups encourage hunters to contact their legislators 
By Tim Spielman 
Associate Editor--Outdoor News

St. Paul - Joe Hoppe, a first-term state Republican representative from Chaska, says making dove hunt supporters of some legislators will be a daunting task. 
Hoppe said Tuesday one fellow House member has received more than 50 letters or e-mails from dove hunting opponents. Not one piece of correspondence had been received from those who want the opportunity to hunt the migratory bird.

"We have senators and representatives who've only been getting their information from anti-dove hunting people," Hoppe said. 
While dove hunting bills currently have arrived at both the House and Senate floors, it's a bill that contains a dove stamp (the funds of which would be used for habitat projects) that was rejected by a House committee last week. It's also the bill most legislators and conservation groups would like to see passed this session.

"Somehow we want to get the (dove hunting) bill passed with the stamp (requirement)," Hoppe said. The bill that was rejected by the House Ways and Means Committee last week not only contained dove hunting stamp money, but increases in the pheasant stamp and state duck stamps, too, Hoppe added. The bill would have raised both of those habitat stamps from the current $5 to $7.50.

Both Hoppe and John Schroers, of the Minnesota Duck and Goose Callers Association, and legislative coordinator for the Minnesota Outdoor Heritage Alliance (MOHA) say the dove stamp language still could be revived in that committee. Key committee members weren't present for the vote last week, they say. It's up to Jim Knoblach, R-St. Cloud, chair of the committee, to bring the bill back for reconsideration. If that occurs, Hoppe said it likely would be during the week of April 21.

"They (committee members) should be voting only on whether or not there should be a dove stamp, not on the dove hunt," Schroers said. "And (hunters) always have been a pay-as-we-go group." 
On the other hand, bills in the House and Senate that do not have dove stamp language, could still pass, and legislators could "come back later" with stamp language, Schroers said. 
Passage of a dove hunting bill, even without the stamp requirement, will face an uphill battle, Hoppe predicts. 
"My concern is not only getting it passed by the committee, but I expect a big fight on the House floor," he said.

With feedback from hunters in the state, the odds of a dove hunt - the first since 1946 - would greatly improve, Schroers said. 
"We're trying to whip up support," he said. "Legislators are hearing a lot from anti-hunters, some from out of state. We need to start our own phone and e-mail campaign. We need to activate sportsmen."

Some of the anti-hunting groups that have lobbied legislators include the Humane Society of the United States, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA), and the Student Organization for Animal Rights (SOAR), according to Schroers. 
The HSUS web site has a direct "action" link to Minnesota legislative issues - the dove hunt bill and legislation that would allow the hunting of bears with hounds. 
"Your quick action on this legislation may prevent mourning doves from being shot for recreation (in Minnesota)," the site states. 
The HSUS encourages people to bring up several points when writing/calling legislators.

"Dove hunting is inherently cruel" and "amounts to nothing more than target practice for hunters," according to the HSUS. Furthermore, dove hunting serves no wildlife management purpose, they say. The HSUS also concludes that "there are many other species for hunters to shoot in the state" including geese, ducks, woodcock, and dozens of other bird species. 
Schroers said MOHA has been promoting the dove hunt along with members of the Fish and Wildlife Legislative Alliance. The groups have set up a web site (www.mndove.com) in hopes of educating legislators and providing Minnesotans with mourning doves.

Minnesota is just one of a handful of states that don't allow dove hunting. (This fall, Wisconsin likely will become the 39th state to allow dove hunting.) In fact, doves are the number one game bird in North America. They're regulated by the Migratory Bird Treaty Act between the U.S., Canada, and Mexico. 
Hoppe said some constituents point out that not long ago, there was no turkey hunting in the state; since that time, it's become a spring tradition. 
"And, there's no biological reason not to hunt doves," he says.

According to the Minnesota DNR, there are about 400 million mourning doves in North America, including an estimated population in Minnesota of 12 million. Mortality rates from hunting are approximately 10 percent, and hunting has not been shown to reduce dove populations.


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## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

Saw something the other day about the MN senate passing a nat res bill with a dove season included. :thumb:


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

Dove hunting is great. Every year on grouse opener we get into an awesome dove hunt and limit out. Then we chase the sharptail and huns around the rest of the day. Doves are a great bird and great tasting. I would rather hunt doves then chase around a few family flocks of canadians.


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