# 6.5 Creedmore Vs 25-06



## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Ive read that the 25-06 actually has a better ballistic coefficiency than 6.5 CM

Thoughts?


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Interesting... but it's not "cool" to like the old tried and proven standbys. 7-08, 308 and 243 will all do pretty much, the same thing at 400 yards or less, that the 6.5 will... I would not take a shot at a living animal over 500 yards unless it was to finish it off, and then, everything would have to be PERFECT - no wind, relaxed animal/perfect rest.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

This is from a shooters form: 


> Originally Posted by dsanders
> I'm thinking of trying some .25-06 Wildcat bullets in either the 130, 142 or 156 gr. I was hoping for some information on where to start with powder/bullet wt. combination and when does the bullet weight really exceed the calibers' capability. Is the 156 or 142 gr.bullets really too big for the .25-06? Thanks for any help.
> 
> 
> ...


I could not find bullets as heavy as this person is talking about. Also, I could find no barrel maker with twist rates that would stabilize them. The smaller the caliber the faster one builds up pressure. Safe pressures reduce velocities in the small 25 caliber so much that heavy bullets would start out slow.

From the charts I have looked at if both rifles are sighted in at 100 yards the 6.5 only hits an inch lower than the 25-06. Beyond that point the 6.5 has far more energy. For deer I have only shot the 6.5 Creedmoor to 858 yards. For coyote my longest shot has been 997 yards. The deer traveled 20 yards and expired, the coyote flopped.

I have two 6.5 Creedmoors, a Savage action with a Criterion barrel and four different stocks, and a Savage model 10BA Stealth. The Stealth came with very deep milling marks in the lands. It would not shoot subsonics within a barn wall at 100 yards. I sent it in and now it groups one inch with subsonics and under .2 inch with standards loads. The Stealth likes the 143 ELD-X best so I don't think I will use anything else even though I currently still have about 600 rounds loaded with 140 VLD, 140 Amax, and 123 Amax.

I wish I could drop the Savage with the Criterion barrel into the Stealth stock when I wanted to, but I had custom throating that is very long and will not work with VLD which are to long for the magazine of the Stealth. I do have a Bell and Carlson Medalist that it shoots .25 inch in, but it doesn't shoot very well in the factory stock or either of the Boyds stocks.

I find that even Lapua brass isn't that good. I have to turn necks down to .013 so one may as well purchase the less expensive brass and anneal and turn.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

"According to Nosler's Reloading Guide 7, the 25-06 can push an 85-grain Ballistic Tip 3,600 fps and a 100-grain Ballistic Tip 3,360 fps. It'll drive a serious big-game bullet, the 120-grain Partition, 3,175 fps through a 24-inch barrel

Folks, 3,175 fps is fast. Our beloved 270 Win. doesn't quite hit that velocity with a 130-grain bullet. 
Zero both 2.5-inches high at 100 yards and they'll land within a quarter-inch of one another at 400 yards. Wind deflection favors the 270 Win. by a lousy inch. The 270 will carry 200 f-p more energy than the 25-06 bullet, but I'll predict no deer or even elk is going to notice. In other words, tie game. 
So why is the 270 Win. still so much more popular? Undoubtedly because it had such a huge head start and has gotten so much press over the years. But that's no reason for serious riflemen and women to ignore the 25-06. If you're shopping for a mild-recoiling, flat-shooting cartridge for whitetails, mule deer, blacktails, antelope, sheep, mountain goats, black bears, caribou, coyotes, wolves and long-range varmints - with enough oomph for elk and even moose if you place your shots carefully - don't overlook the 25-06 Remington.









*
The unheralded 25-06 Remington actually shoots flatter than both the 270 Win. and the 6.5 Creedmoor. *
The Creedmoor, thanks to its much higher BC bullet, deflects less in the wind,* but only by 2.5 inches at 600 yards*!
The light 25-06 bullet loses in the energy department, but I'll bet it's not going to bounce off of a deer's side at 600 yards. If you buy into this "minimum impact energy" theory (that you need at least 1,500 f-p impact energy to kill an elk,) you're good out to 400 yards with a 25-06 Remington, and there are plenty of loads on the market.

Will the 25-06 Remington Get an Upgrade?
I have a hunch some innovative company like Hornady is already working on a high BC .257 projectile. Maybe not. Regardless, even with bullets limited to 120 grains and BCs topping out under .500, the old 25-06 Remington runs neck and neck with the 270 Win. and 6.5 Creedmoor. If you have a 25-06, celebrate it. If you don't, start shopping. The 25-06 Remington is one of the mildest recoiling, flattest shooting, wind defying, overlooked medium hunting cartridges in our arsenal. '

Energy advantages are negligible at best. Roughly 10% more at 600 yards!

https://ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/25-0 ... creedmoor/


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I push a 150 gr Berger VLD to 3070 fps in my 24 inch barrel 270. Still I rarely get it out of the safe. I have a few rifles that I have not fired for five years. I hope they don't feel neglected.  
I can't pass judgement on the 25-06 because I have never had one. A good friend and a nephew had a hard time getting good accuracy from theirs. Then a few fellows I know think they are magic. Go figure.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Plainsman said:


> I push a 150 gr Berger VLD to 3070 fps in my 24 inch barrel 270. Still I rarely get it out of the safe. I have a few rifles that I have not fired for five years. I hope they don't feel neglected.
> I can't pass judgement on the 25-06 because I have never had one. A good friend and a nephew had a hard time getting good accuracy from theirs. Then a few fellows I know think they are magic. Go figure.


As You know, Ammo, barrel, optics and human element all play a role in accuracy.
As calibers go, its as flat shooting as the best thats out there, as shown.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I know it's a favorite antelope gun for many western hunters. The 264 Win mag is making a comeback out west. That is it was until the 26 Nosler and other 6.5s came along. I think it's doomed ------ again. I have a custom 308 that's languishing in the safe because I always reach for the Creedmoor. Same with my very good AR15.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Plainsman said:


> I know it's a favorite antelope gun for many western hunters. The 264 Win mag is making a comeback out west. That is it was until the 26 Nosler and other 6.5s came along. I think it's doomed ------ again. I have a custom 308 that's languishing in the safe because I always reach for the Creedmoor. Same with my very good AR15.


I was This close to buying a Savage 6.5, but started researching.
Looked at 243, 7mm-08, 270 and think all are great. If I had space, Id buy one of each. 
But as is, the 25-06 might be my next, it gives me a good reason to buy something in the 20 caliber thats more potent than an AR.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

They will all do the job, but a new caliber is always fun. Check out the accuracy potentials of each. As far as factory ammo the most accurate I have shot is the 6.5 Hornady precision Hunter. I have never been a Hornady fan until the produced the Precision Hunter ammo.

The 178gr performs very good in my custom 308, but the 200gr ELD-X at 2540 fps group most often at .18 inch three shots and only open to .2 with five shots. I turn the necks, anneal, and load the 308 with Forrester Bench Rest dies. For the Creedmoor I size with RCBS Gold Medal Match then sometimes seat with the same dies or use a Wilson chamber seating die.

One of my hunting friends had a 25-06 a few years ago and about the best he could do was 1.25 at 100 yards. He was a careful hand loader so I don't know what the problem was. A lot of people like them. There has to be a reason.

The 6.5 has become so popular so fast and pushed by so many that it ticks off some people. Especially if they have a pet caliber that they think nothing can compare to. I don't know if I have a pet caliber I like them all.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

New calibers are meant for one thing and one thing only. To sell rifles.

I looked at a 6.5, researched it, and figured it really didn't do or fill a void that my 257 ackley, 270 win, 300 win mag and other rifles can do.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

southdakbearfan said:


> New calibers are meant for one thing and one thing only. To sell rifles.
> 
> I looked at a 6.5, researched it, and figured it really didn't do or fill a void that my 257 ackley, 270 win, 300 win mag and other rifles can do.


THIS !!!!!!! :beer: :beer: :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

southdakbearfan said:


> New calibers are meant for one thing and one thing only. To sell rifles.
> 
> I looked at a 6.5, researched it, and figured it really didn't do or fill a void that my 257 ackley, 270 win, 300 win mag and other rifles can do.


Well in reality if you have a 300 mag you don't need the 257 or the 270. I just want them.  
Couldn't finish there was an emergency on the honeydo list. :rollin: 
Anyway I have a number of rifles including a custom 308 and 300 WM and smaller calibers, but I sure grab that 6.5 often. When my son who has a safe full of rifles asked me what I thought he should get in a custom rifle I said 260 Remington. That wyears before the Creedmoor, and many years before I got my first 6.5, the 6.5x284.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Been a long time since I've weighed in on here.

I've never had a 25-06, but I have had a 6.5 creed. It was ok. To me it felt a lot like my 308 that I had, velocity and trajectory were similar. I ended up stepping up to the 6.5 saum and it made one heck of a difference. With a 130 jlk I'm running a mild 3200fps, I can get 3300 pretty easy, just not as accurate. I've shot it for about a year now and like the round. A couple months ago I picked up a 26 nosler. It pushes the 130 to 3400fps. It was great, but it really didn't trip my trigger. It is currently going out the door. The 6.5 saum I'd all I need and it's crazy accurate just like the 6.5 creed that I had. I'd say flip a coin, they'll all be fine to shoot.

The only twist I have with both the rounds you've mentioned is that the quarter bore doesn't have the bullet selection the 6.5 does, they lack the BC for those long range shots. But using a program to get your drop, it's a moot point because gravity is a constant. Wind is a different factor.

Deano


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Xdeano my son was visiting with a fellow who has a room full of trophies for bench rest center fire and he shoots the 6.5 SAUM. He is convinced that the perfect velocity for the 140 gr 6.5 is 3000 fps. I'm close with my 6.5x284 doing 2970 fps. It puts the 140 Berger VLD's into just under 1/4 inch. 
One thing we have not mentioned yet is sectional density which is important when it comes to penetrating animals. I think the 6.5 has that hands down. The best sectional density I can find for the 25-06 is .260 while the 6.5 sectional density is .325 (Hornady manual). I think it was Jack O'Connor who said don't use anything with sectional density under .3 for big game. Yes I met a fellow in the mountains hunting elk with a 22-250. He said he had killed three with it and only takes head shots under 200 yards. A friend took his 25-06 after elk using X bullets. I think it's good for antelope and deer, but small but doable in the right hands for elk.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

The 6.5 saum is an excellent round. Recoil is suprisingly light. 3000 with a 140 is pretty easy. You're correct about the 6.5 and sectional densities.

I know that the 6.5 saum is he'll on moose, they bleed out like you have a garden hose filled with blood dumping out the sides. It's pretty impressive. Took it elk hunting last year too. 130 berger hvld, 130 jlk, 130 swift scirocco all work great on animals.

Deano


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Plainsman said:


> Xdeano my son was visiting with a fellow who has a room full of trophies for bench rest center fire and he shoots the 6.5 SAUM. He is convinced that the perfect velocity for the 140 gr 6.5 is 3000 fps. I'm close with my 6.5x284 doing 2970 fps. It puts the 140 Berger VLD's into just under 1/4 inch.
> One thing we have not mentioned yet is sectional density which is important when it comes to penetrating animals. I think the 6.5 has that hands down. The best sectional density I can find for the 25-06 is .260 while the 6.5 sectional density is .325 (Hornady manual). I think it was Jack O'Connor who said don't use anything with sectional density under .3 for big game. Yes I met a fellow in the mountains hunting elk with a 22-250. He said he had killed three with it and only takes head shots under 200 yards. A friend took his 25-06 after elk using X bullets. I think it's good for antelope and deer, but small but doable in the right hands for elk.


Jack O Connor hunted every game in North America, Grizzly & Moose, every sheep, and killed them with his beloved 270.

Id never heard that statement of density from him and .30 but was famous for saying 'WHERE you hit em, is more important than what you hit em with.'


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

R26 sure changed my 6.5Creedmoor. Here are pics of velocity with 140 gr ELD-M.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Good stuff.... Is there a particular standard load you favor?

I dont handload..... but youre getting from stuff from yours it looks like. 


6.5C is here to stay, but I think the 270, 243 and 25-06 are also all great rounds. Not sure I favor one over the other..


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes I think my 270 Win is getting lonesome in the safe.. I think its a real cartridge, but the last time I tickled her trigger was o my last antelope hunt a few years ago.

For my 6.5 Creedmoor I have three bullets I like. The Berger 140 VLD, Hornady 140 ELD-M, and Hornady 143 ELD-X. All have a Federal match primer and 48 gr of R26 under them. The 3035 fps is out of a 26 inch barrel. I have not chronographed my 24 inch barrel yet, but I was extremely surprised when my friends Ruger American Predator with a 22 inch barrel chronographed 2975 fps.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Plainsman said:


> Yes I think my 270 Win is getting lonesome in the safe.. I think its a real cartridge, but the last time I tickled her trigger was o my last antelope hunt a few years ago.
> 
> For my 6.5 Creedmoor I have three bullets I like. The Berger 140 VLD, Hornady 140 ELD-M, and Hornady 143 ELD-X. All have a Federal match primer and 48 gr of R26 under them. The 3035 fps is out of a 26 inch barrel. I have not chronographed my 24 inch barrel yet, but I was extremely surprised when my friends Ruger American Predator with a 22 inch barrel chronographed 2975 fps.


I forget how I let you talk me into buying that creedmore, but I do like it. You are still a bad influence. 😂


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