# Do Farmers pay alot of Property Taxes ???



## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

or do they write everything off ???

If they do how about a tax break for those that don't post their lands ??? Or tax Credit ???


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## magnum3.5 (Sep 19, 2003)

Fetch, Land owners taxes is based on appraisal I beleive. Here in Ramsey county it's about 3.5 to 5 dollars an acre I'll have to check on that don't hold me to that.The valley is a bit more and out west I beleive it near the same. What's wrong with posting land are you afraid to ask if you can hunt? I post my land. I let lots of people hunt ... If they ask. If I am not hunting myself I'll let people hunt. Exept during deer season they have to wait until I have made my harvest and they have to hunt from one of my stands I don't want anybody walkin the sloughs. Magnum


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Just trying to think of ways to help keep ND & farmers feeling good about letting people hunt & not have to pay- I know many will let you - Just seems like it could be a Giant PLOTS type program ??? - & better for farmers than leasing or selling ???

I have no problem asking & have thousands of times - I always had to cause I was good at visiting with farmers & rarely got turned down (unless like you say they plan to hunt it or deer hunting is close ) - So much so others in our party would get Pizzed cause I could visit forever :lol:

Do you have any water big enough for a duck boat ???  That is getting to be about the only way I hunt anymore - There is nothing else quite like it - Maybe because I have field hunted for 30 yrs - plus jumping some potholes - But putting dekes on the water & calling ducks in is way cool 8)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

magnum 3.5

I have seen many posts where people say I always ask. I hunt with friends or relatives because I find it very hard to ask to hunt posted land. I feel like I am being a pest. Out in the badlands I have had people be very rude and I would like to avoid a confrontation simply because I ask to hunt. What do you think the average is when a person walks up to a house and politely asks to hunt? Do you think it runs as high as 25 percent? I would perhaps try more often if I didn't feel like I was intruding into peoples lives.


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

You are joking right Fetch???? Know why your property taxes are so much higher in big cities than in small towns? Because in small towns most of the taxes are paid for by AG. I n cities you have many more people on each acre of land. Drives rates crazy.

Rising land taxes are one of the things really hurting production(not hobby) farms.

Want to know what I think the single greatest thing that could be done for conservation in this state is??? Remove all non-annually cropped wetlands completely from the tax roles. This would shift taxes onto the productive land, and possibly more onto housing valuations, but would do more to encourage peoples attitudes about wetlands than absolutley anything else that we could do.

Most likely will never happen, but it would truly change wetlands conservation in this state forever.....


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Magnium 3.5 & any other Farmer / Landowner would you consider not posting your land if it meant a tax break or other incentive ??? What would it take ? -- So we don't have to bug you ???

t why doesn't what your talking about happen ???

Not that it matters or was not why I posted this question - But my property taxes are $2400 a yr


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## daniel1 (Feb 27, 2004)

There is pretty much nothing they could do to stop me from posting my land. The only way I would stop posting my land is if ND adopted the same law as all the other states have. That is that all the land is posted unless otherwise noted. This is how it should be.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

In Barnes County it runs $5 to $7 per acre depending what school district your farm is in. Ag land is supposed to be taxed according to a productivity index set by the State Soil Survey. Depends on the county and assessor. Tom's point on wetland forgiveness is good, but doubtfull if it would happen. The new Working Lands Program does the same thing as tax forgivness though, and doesn't put a higher burden on surrounding lands. Canceling the tax wouldn't pay the bills for government.

And I like the current posting law just fine for my farm. So do most of my farming friends.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

I guess that I don't have a problem with farmers posting their land, and I don't really think that we should be finding incentives to keep landowners from doing so. The problem is commercialization, not making hunters ask for permission.

We've established that wildife are a public resource. Therefore, if G/Os are paid by clients to harvest wildlife or landowners charge for access to harvest a public resource, the public should be compensated. I still think that land used for commercial hunting operations (hunting lodges, lands leased for commerical hunting operations, landowners who charge for access) should be zoned as commercial property and taxed accordingly. This doesn't prohibit folks from making a buck and extracting value from their property, but they'll have to compensate the public for doing so with a public resource. We also need a way to trace the income that landowners get from access fees so that this is claimed on their income taxes. Since these are cash transactions, tracking would be tough.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

BD, nice post. This would be a good one for the stickey on new legislation. I think the PLOTS does give the incentive to open land already. The only question is the price.

Both counties and townships can zone property commercial for property tax, don't know if the state can mandate that. It would very difficult to get the county and township to act on it as local politics would come into play. But an excellent idea, as right now commercial ops are subsidized by the states tax payers. Revenue not received.

As far as traceing the sale of public game: What if a special hunting license issued by NDGF was required to hunt on any outfitter associated land and the outfitter was required to reimburse the NDGF $30 per bird? The money going to PLOTS. Right now outfitters will lose their outfitting license for violations, and failure to turn in the money would be a violation. Worth thinking about.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Dick,

A couple of thoughts:

1) Yes, townships and counties zone property. However, a state-level mandate would force them to zone appropriately. The state could also have definitions of "commercial" so that all counties and townships zoned consistently. For example, property could be deem commercial if a landowner received over a certain number of dollars per acre each growing season either from a hunting lease or access fees.

2) I like your idea for force G/Os to reimburse the public for each harvested bird, but I would rather that money go into the general fund than to NDGF. Since we need to gain public buy-in that they should be compensated for use of their public resource, you might get more buy-in if this money was deposited right back into the general fund. Better yet, use it for non-hunting-related activities that would benefit folks that aren't even hunters (veterans benefits, education, drug prevention, etc).

What about tracing money charged for access fees by private landowners? There are lots of folks who drop $50 to $100 for access in some parts of the state, and I doubt that all of that is claimed as income by landowners each April 15.

My wife is a teacher who does private tutoring on the side. Most of the time, she gets $20 bill for an hour's worth of tutoring, almost always in cash. It would be very tempting for her to not claim tutoring money as income, but she does because she knows that the student or student's families are filing these fees as educational deductions on their tax forms. Therefore, there is a paper trail back to her. What type of a paper trail is their back to landowners who charge for access, and what type of paper trail would there be to show a G/O owes reimbursement for 100 birds instead of 50?

Would the state simply need to do sting operations? Would people fill out some type of paperwork and submit it to the state to show that they paid their guide for 5 birds or that they paid $100 for hunting access?


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## magnum3.5 (Sep 19, 2003)

Fetch, Nope it would be posted I want you to bother me during supper. I want to know who's out there and what their plan is. Magnum


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

BD, what you say has merit and needs to be looked at closer. The general fund would be the best recipiant, and draw public support for the idea. No more free lunch.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Hey Magnum, and other land owners. This is not a smart *** question, I really want to know how you guys feel. Do you want to know who is out there during deer season for safety reasons, or do you want to know who is out there just so you know how they are treating your land, etc. during waterfowl season also.?? Thank you for your input.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

dj, nope I don't care a bit as long as they don't screw it up for someone who is already there on my land. The best place for "my" deer is in someone's freezer-not mine. Same for black geese. For a farmer deer are like giant mice. Early waterfowl I do post "ask first signs" and take them down after the first week.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

I have some statements and a question for this thread: first, north dakota is not the only state where land is open to public access where not posted (Maine also). second, north dakota has one of the highest percentage of land owners who are not resident for part of the year (particularly fall and winter). The result is that the early legislators made a law that land is open to public access unless posted and that reasoning has continued to the present day. 
My questions to landowners: Why the large increase in posting the last 10 years? Landowners did not seem to have a problem with people on their land or posting up their land in 1994 (remember how little was posted back then?). I know in my region of the state, the posting is almost universally a landowner response divided between the large increase in the number of hunters (resident and non resident both, and subsequent problems with hunters) and leasing land for hunting to make a profit.


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## magnum3.5 (Sep 19, 2003)

Djleye, I want to no where there going to be yes for safety reasons mostly. I am reasponsible for what happens out there I'm not going to loose everything I've got because some idiot shot my neighbor or my renter. I also give people with kids or a disabled people first chance. Most local people won't even ask. They just shoot and hope I'm not home! You guy's can complain all you want about N.R. but they are the only ones that ask. Like I have said be for they ask, clean up there mess, they are courtous, and they are thankful. I have never taken one dime and never will. A few years ago I let some N.R. hunt and they afford money and I declined then next day I received a 50 dollar gift cert. for supper and drinks. I think they were thankful for the please to hunt. They would not have gotten to if I was going to hunt that afternoon but I had my bag for the day. It's my family's land I think we should be able to do what we want to do with it. If I want to post it I will, If I want to close It off so nobody but me hunts it I will. Afterall I'm paying for it. Magnum


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

indsort, personally I think farmers post mostly due to increased pressure from more hunters, more hunter days afield, and the effects of commercializing the resource. That is fee hunting and outfitters. At the same time tourism and hospitality have advertised heavily the opportunity available in ND, which concentrates more people in high use areas. When outfitting and fee hunting took off in the early 90's, the problem became apparent by decreasing supply and increasing demand for less available resource. Add in there seems to be more disposable income for tourist hunters today, allowing them to travel farther and stay longer.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Dick you will find this interesting and Fetch even you might learn something :lol: 
http://www.fairtaxvolunteer.org/smart/ag_ranch.html

Really lets you know what farmers are up against!!!


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

who is that from ??? there has to be a political or economic push from someone ??? or did some people just come up with that many good ideas out of the blue ???


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Congressman John Linder ( R )Georgia has been spearheading the fairtax plan for several years, its a great idea with a good bit of support from both sides of the aisle but just has not got enough attention from the public to push it. I've studied the heck out of it and there is no down side for the public. The only downside for the politicians is that they wouldn't be able to pit one group of citizens against another to buy votes. It would be a great thing for the country and I hope you guys will examine it and start talking to your congressmen about it. Its very non-partisan intentionally to gain the most support. This country would go into an economic boom thats never been seen before if this was instituted!!!!


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

magnum3.5 said:


> Most local people won't even ask. They just shoot and hope I'm not home! You guy's can complain all you want about N.R. but they are the only ones that ask. Like I have said be for they ask, clean up there mess, they are courtous, and they are thankful. I have never taken one dime and never will. A few years ago I let some N.R. hunt and they afford money and I declined then next day I received a 50 dollar gift cert. for supper and drinks. I think they were thankful for the please to hunt. They would not have gotten to if I was going to hunt that afternoon but I had my bag for the day. It's my family's land I think we should be able to do what we want to do with it. If I want to post it I will, If I want to close It off so nobody but me hunts it I will. Afterall I'm paying for it. Magnum


Magnum! :thumb: I about fell off my chair! It's Funny, Ive heard the same from about 100 other land owners we've talked with.


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## magnum3.5 (Sep 19, 2003)

U -bet Goldy come and hunt theres enough to go around. If the locals want to hunt public land they can have at it. Come on guy's let's talk hunting and fishing. Magnum


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## mfeining (Nov 2, 2002)

Dick,
I like hearing that when a guide violates a law such as overharvest he loses his license. This is very beneficial to sportsmen in that people who think you can put a price on the hunt of a lifetime are not above and beyond the law. But I also think the "uninformed guy" who opens a self-directed hunting operation such as a "pheasant hunting bed and breakfast" or any other form of charging to hunt should be bound to the same consequences. I've heard many a landowner say "shoot as many as you want." Granted, I don't pay to hunt except in deeds, but I'm sure the same thing goes on in small-time $20 a day "operations". My God, I'm almost positive I've yet to experience waterfowl hunting comparable to what some of these "cheeseheads" have by manipulating some naive landowner with a 20 dollar bill. I only wish landowners would know the ETHICAL North Dakota born and bred people here. I feel if they completely understood this concept, it would be the end of this mess.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

mfeining said:


> My God, I'm almost positive I've yet to experience waterfowl hunting comparable to what some of these "cheeseheads" have by manipulating some naive landowner with a 20 dollar bill.


I don't think it's about the $20.00 or any money for that matter. I don't speak for all landowners, just the hundred I have talked with.


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

magnum,
your post was refreshing to say the least! it is an opinion i have encountered with numerous landowners. i think the problem in ND is that the residents feel they should have the right to go on anyones land whenever they want to. its the reason theyre so upset over the whole NR issue. they have the same oppurtunity to ask permission/lease/buy land to hunt as any NR does. even more considering they are in the state year round and can make those connections to land owners. but instead they feel they should get a free ride. 
one post talked about charging extra ($30) for birds shot with guides to reimburse a public resource. can the farmers then submit a bill for choosing to farm in ways that benefits wildlife and nature in general? say $1000 for every food plot, $750 for not mowing fence lines and ditches, $500 for leaving some corn standing etc etc etc
why do most ND residents feel they automatically deserve the right to recreate on someone elses land, and leave paying for and maintaining that land to the owner?


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I'm all for Farmers making money - But do it legally & safely

lately there have been several referances to residents not asking to hunt - Thats BUNK !!! any resident who has hunted for anytime -knows this - it is one of the most elementary things involved in hunting ND

In fact we have done more than anyone, because of our rules & laws. Where most NR's hardly dare ask cause where they come from it is almost impossible :roll:

Why a few, keep trying to say this is what this is all about, is a Joke - thats NOT FUNNY !!!

Those that think this way are hopefully a Big minority & have their own special interests in trying to use this, as a means of furthering the commercialization of hunting - or their just ignorant of how the majority of Residents have conducted themselves over the years :roll: :******:

Thanks too & God Bless those that let us all hunt - thats what this is all about- cause ND has been so special & unique for so many years -why change it all now ??? & become like the rest of the country ??? Instead of managing what we have had & maybe make it even better.


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

Fetch,
my granparents own a farm near Mott. we go out to hunt their propert. in talking with them, other relatives, neighbors of theirs, other farmers in their area is where i get that. my uncle says at least 80% of the negative run ins with hunters are residents. he doesnt allow anyone on the land until we have had a chance to hunt. it is posted until then. he has problems with residents tresspassing each year. now im not saying all residents are the problem, just as all NR dont behave the same. but it is happening. read the attitudes in some of the posts and tell me they dont come off as thinking they have the right to use anybodys land they want.
my dad and my uncle moved to MN in the 1960's. in 1998 my uncle bought a small farm and home on south eastern ND for hunting purposes. this place had been for sale fro almost 2 years. no one wanted it. the first fall after buying it (and fixing it up!!) he was harrassed right out of the local sallon for being a d#@n NR buying up all the land. now to me thats some ******* philosphy! none of these locals took the chance to buy it in the 2 years it was for sale, my uncle (a former ND resident with family still in state) buys it, and they are po'd! c'mon!!
everyone says its the commercialization they're fighting. what inroads have been made on that front? have any of the measures put even a slight hurt on the g/o's? has any land leased gone back to free hunting? have any NR's sold their land to someone who allows resident only hunting? seems to me the only ones being hurt are the little guys!! the rich are still doing their thing!! and your all still complaining about it!


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## Buckshot (Nov 5, 2003)

http://www.land20.com/index.php?action= ... &region=MW

There is plenty of land for sale in ND! 
How about that 14,401 acre ranch  out west. If you could make an investment like that cash flow. Whats wrong with owning a little private property?

".... with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Property." 
Just as Jefferson had it in a draft of the Declaration of Independence. Good use of alliteration, but Happiness has a nice ring to it too.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

We do have the right to hunt any land not posted - always have

& have for the most part, been able to hunt most land when asking - Unlike your State

- Plus your talking Mott :roll: - I would not go near there even if you gave me your land :eyeroll: I have been thru there a couple times the past 25 yrs as it has always been famous for Pheasants - But it has always been (for the most part) a place of frustration where you see birds everywhere & no one will let you hunt - & know they wonder why non residents don't want to go there. I think it is more than paying to hunt - (But I could be wrong) It has always been a area you had to have connections to hunt - I'd rather quit hunting & have almost quit pheasant hunting because of things lke this - Not worth the frustration of driving that far & getting a over booked motel rooms & putting up with the hassles & crowding of areas like that creates.

You see we residents know there are still a few places to try to go & hunt with out the hassles & bad attitudes - Less every year

But Hey !!! there are always the Pay to shoot guys that are more than willing to take our places - & Heck let all come as many as want to and all at the same times ....Right :eyeroll: Yeah we should just roll over and let folks like you have your way :******: -- Itell you if we had some real Leaders in the right places this could all end ---It has before --- It will happen again --- If not be prepared to really pay thru the nose for what ND tax payers are paying for now - When we no longer want to pay for it

If we survive these Law suits I think there will come a day we get fed up with the likes of NR's tell us what to do & Spinning things so it will help you take over :******:

If not all we can do is hope & pray for a drought or bad weather to wipe out Our birds (has happened before too)- then I wonder how much $$$ you will spend in ND

What is it that you think Residents are against you ???

In fact we have had NR in mind & asked for your help -instead of seeing you support things that help commercializing of hunting ???

It is those that have land or want to buy land or trying to profit off what we have had for so long that complain --- & really your a very small minority - that has squaked pretty loud - But our Good people will not be fooled forever.

But look at the rest of the country - maybe you will win - if so alot of residents will quit. Young people are already leaving the state because there is no reason to stay - think how bad it will be in 10 or 20 years - if ND turns out like Texas :eyeroll: But you don't care you got yours & come here what 2 weeks a year :eyeroll: & save our small towns :roll:

& how stupid can you be to buy land to shoot a few phesants & ducks a year :lol: But there will always be many with more $$$ than brains that will screw things up for the majority -- But those that like what is happening are not thinking things thru to completion & will be asking the State why & Help us, alot in the future --- & it did not have to be this way :eyeroll:


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

I know lots of good places to hunt in ND fetch, so if it gets really bad for you just call on me. I'll guide you around a while. Millions of places to hunt. No pressure, just birds. You guys got it made!! 8) :wink:


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

Fetch,
your right, its guys like you "city slickers" in fargo and grand forks who are gonna save the small towns!!! thats what my relatives and other farmers are growing sick of. someone who lives in the city(almost as far away as those dang MN's) telling them what to do with their land and how they should do it. why dont you buy a farm and work the land year round if its the dream life. just think land of your own where you can build fences and nets to make sure your wildlife doesnt escape to be hunted by someone else. 
of course its alot easier to just tell someone else what to do with their land then to put the work in yourself huh?
as for my uncle being stupid to buy land just to hunt. why shouldnt he? he paid less for the house in ND and 80 acres of land than a city lot costs around here. when he retires in a few years he will be able to sell his house and move back home. then i geuss he'll be a different man...a hallowed RESIDENT!! how differently he will be viewed when his license plate reads ND!!
and for your information i've never paid to hunt with a commercial outfit in my life. and as i pointed out, your laws have done ZERO to stop the growth of g/o's. in fact your laws are self fulfilling prophecy...soon all you will be left with are rich NR's who pay to hunt.


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## mfeining (Nov 2, 2002)

GP,
OK. Your sarcasm has thoroughly annoyed me. You see, we Nodakers, born and bred take this seriously. Reading your posts is like listening to the divorced guy at work telling me how to run my marriage. He had it and lost it but still thinks he can give me sound advice. For the most part, the sarcasm factor isn't present to us native NDers. So I suggest you use a little more diplomacy when you post about coming here to share our resources. We are trying to avoid becoming "another Minnesota" and having to go to say, Montana to hunt ducks and pheasants. Give us a break and respect our concern. Sorry I blew up!


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## magnum3.5 (Sep 19, 2003)

Come on guy's Our resource? What's up with that ? That's just about like the farmers owning the game we hunt. This is getting way out of hand. If a farmer, rancher, wants to charge let them. G/O is a legitamate business nobody could put a stop to that as long as they do things by the book. Nobody puts the stop to a new hardware store or a clothing store because there is to many! Guy's let's hunt not fight!!! Magnum


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Yeah good one mfeining, I guess some of the BS on this topic is just a one way street huh!! I read the NR problem every day. Shouldn't I take that as a slam. So what if I bother you, welcome to my world. Should I suggest a little more diplomacy when you post about your negative NR attitude?? Quite whining about the freelance NR hunters anyway, your dam guides and outfitters are your biggest problem that you have let get what they wanted, so you go after the little guy like me instead. I have nothing but respect for ND and its residents, but my a$$ has been hung out to dry on this sight so many times, and for what?? Shooting a few of your birds and talking with landowners!!


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

Fetch,
one other thing...young people arent leaving ND over outdoor oppurtunities. its because there are no jobs in the majority of the state. take out fargo, grand forks, and bismark and aint many ways to make a living. maybe you all should focus on those kinds of problems instead of fanatically pursuing the end of the NR scurge.
my dad and uncle moved to the twin cities from the farm in 1967. the came for consruction jobs. worked together, lived together and sent money home to help out when times were tough. if they hadnt my grandparents would have lost their farm. wasnt no one from fargo coming out to drop some beef off when they were eating jack rabbits 5 nights a week. now beacuase my dad lives in MN, and i was born here, we're the hated outsiders. you all are saying the next step should be lotteries for licenses and zones. so there is a real possiblity my dad could be denied the chance to hunt the family farm, his boyhood home? once he retires and moves back out there, i could be denied the oppurtunity to hunt with my dad on the family farm? that all the reward for my dad and uncles work creating better habitat on the farm should be reaped by you, not them?CMON...none of you can think it through and realize the way your going about things is going to leave you exactly like SD. small town airports with 4000' runways and corporate jets lined up waiting. you will have 30000 rich guys paying outfitters to line up licenses, land, and action. you can triple the fees, install lotteries, create more zones, restrict public land...none of this hurts the rich guy!!!!


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

You & many others would like to "take out" Fargo - GrandForks & Bismarck But there are alot of people living in our cities that wonder why don't we go away to better jobs & then come back & take advantage of ND - as one of the last good places left to hunt (a whole region) not just a few acres.

Alot of us have the same roots in Western ND

So you think there should be no advantages to living here ???

I am already on record saying there should be a way to allow NR's that either own land (second generation or longer) to be able to hunt ND & those that have land in ND could get a few licenses for friends & relatives

But you have to cut it off somewhere

& what do you suggest we do to stop or slow down the commercialization of ND Hunting ???

I agree the rich will get theirs - or do you have a way to equalize them too ???

& if you have followed this site & went back & read most of the content on these kind of issues, we have not been against NR Freelance hunters. Just because you have a in & ND is so much better than where you come from & you can hunt your little space where ever it is :roll: why should we have to dramatically change to insure that ???


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

Fetch,
you dont pay my grandparents property taxes, you dont work their farm. you dont provide habitat. what in the hell makes you think you desrve something more than my father because of where you live? talk about wanting a free ride!! put your money where your mouth is, buy some land, work it, pay the taxes on it, and then let others tell you what to do with it. 
how many shelterbelts have you planted? how many trees? how many fields have you left corn standing in? how much slough have you rehabed and made productive again? my family has done enough to improve wildlife on their land, which also benefits the surrounding area to EARN their right.
how much have you donated to DU, pheasants forever, or other conservation organizations?
the benefit you should recieve for living in ND is a reduced cost of license. no more no less.
quit thinking the farmers owe you the right to hunt wherever and whenever you want. its a priviledge., NOT A RIGHT!! thats why my grandparents are considering posting their land for nonresident hunting only. would be the first time my grandpa has ever put up a no tresspassing sign. from what i hear others are doing the same.
furthermore, your attitude comes across loud and clear with comments hoping that drought will come and bird #'s will drop, so the NR's will stop coming. you'd rather have a lower quality resource than to share! my god how selfish and pathetic!
one last thing. i shot more pheasants in MN last year than in ND, and just as many ducks. contrary to what you all believe hunting is good here in MN. some people just like to explore, hunt different places, different terrain. some just like to hunt family farms they grew up on. there are many reasons NR's come to hunt in ND. the least of which is lack of quality hunting at home!


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

> & how stupid can you be to buy land to shoot a few phesants & ducks a year But there will always be many with more $$$ than brains that will screw things up for the majority -- But those that like what is happening are not thinking things thru to completion & will be asking the State why & Help us, alot in the future --- & it did not have to be this way


Actually, my last purchase 3 years ago was a no-brainer. After comparing the numbers and return on investment I bought the land rather than a 4-plex.

The most interesting part of this is that in 5 years, this area and the area around it, will have increased rather than decreased opportunities for hunters. How does this become misconstrued to be stupid and not thinking things thru?


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Crazy I have tried to talk to you in a civil / cooperative manner - I now believe your name is correct.

Red Label your a Resident

& I know where your heart & mind is on all this

I wish every Nodaker could afford to buy their own little place to improve

But it is not what we have done our whole lives - alot don't have the time or money - unless you make it your hobby - Like a lake place & frankly my wife & kids would not find much Fun in going to a rural swamp land & fixing it up - (again I'd love it)

But to me this is the 1st step towards being like Texas & Arkansas etc. - if everyone goes for the land grab & that is all we do - go the same little place & hope to maybe attract some waterfowl & upland :roll: I can't tell you how sad that is to anyone who has went where the birds want to be.

I cannot ever say this is the way to go - I may be wrong & lose Big Time but it just is not hunting to me

& just like so many down south - have a couple bad yrs & no birde show up & it is a crisis & many commercial outfits are going under - many others getting out as fast as they got in & high leases are becoming worthless & guess what else, they all want to come here - because no matter what, we always have some birds & (of course :roll: ) the people are so nice :roll:

It is time to not be so nice & keep ND special & unique and as close to what is has been for a 100 years ---It could be even better for those of us that live here & a reasonable # of NR's that are fortunate enough to get to come --- Instead of a free for all, get while the getting is good :eyeroll:


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

??


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

Fetch,
you have tried to talk to me in a reasonable manner? by calling my uncle stupid? by declaring you have more right than my dad, who also pays property tax, and some income tax in ND. who has done more for ND wildlife than you?
and you ask where is the right place to draw the line, something has to be done? why all the uproar over MN current proposal on NR fishing? NR's buying lakeshore property in MN is a very real problem. why shouldnt that be the first step in dealing with it, much as you all have done? and if MN is going to join the protectionist attitude, why not test it out on those who dont play well with others?
we also have a very real problem of people buying land in western WI (where property is cheaper than TC metro area) and then commuting into the TC for jobs. would it be fair to enact legislation that until all MN's have a job, no NR can commute into MN and take one? your right were do we draw the line? are we the united states or 50 seperate entities?
you also say you dont have the time or money to do something for yourself? what a copout!!! we will be heading to my grandparents this spring to palnt 1000 evergreens on the high side of our slough. care to join us and get your hands dirty? put a little of your blood and sweat into the land? i'm sure my family would be more than happy to let you hunt with us, or after we have hunted it a bit. then you'd have an in, in what you describe as an almost unhuntable area of the state. willing to put your hands in the mud?
why not take a weekend out in the summer and help a rancher repair fences, load hay, do something? because you dont feel you sould have to!! you should just get to benefit from someone elses labor!
you acknowledge that all of your laws do nothing to affect the rich, who are the ones that hunt with commercial outfits. maybe because the whole g/o thing is just a "politically correct" way to pass these laws. the fact it doesnt obtain the stated goal is just a unfortunate result? from the actions you all take its clear the goal is to reduce drastically, if not eliminate, NR hunting.
you also say you want things to remain as they have for 100 years? funny you dont want to go back just a little further! seems to me the only true ND residents are the native americans! seems to me they had a way of life destroyed more than anyone is suffering from now. seems to me ND tribes are amongst the poorest in the nation. maybe the next action should be a native american restoration stamp, sold for $20, to reimburse them for what was taken. land, resources, a way of life! or that isnt an important issue because they arent YOU?!!!


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

God willing you will get what you deserve


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## callmecrazy (Feb 20, 2004)

Fetch,
i see you have no logical rebuttal to the comments i've made. funny how that works isnt it!!
and i take it you are not interested in lending a hand to improve habitat on my grandparents farm in exchange for the oppurtunity to hunt there. WHAT A SURPRISE!!!!
hopefully you will get what you deserve as well!!!
just make sure you practice what you preach, and stay in ND!! do not vacation or recreate anywhere else!! you know mr "god is willing" : do unto others as you want done unto you!


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

The garbage you spew has all been said before - I'm beyond argueing with the likes of you 

Go back & read some of thepast topics

Your showing how selfish & ignorant you really are :eyeroll:


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## mfeining (Nov 2, 2002)

magnum,
with the attitude you convey on your post about "just letting it happen" I don't see any reason for you to even show interest in this website because what you are saying is exactly what will happen if we do nothing. G/O's and leasing will take over the majority of the land in ND and we will have nothing. If we had that attitude, not even PLOTS would exist because forward-thinking Nodakers had to MAKE that happen.


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## magnum3.5 (Sep 19, 2003)

Hey fetch! I got away to improve a wetland it's called a ditch. Drain the slough farm the slough and pay the property tax. More money for the gas man, machinery dealership's, chemical company, seed companys, insurance agents, and parts stores. Spread it out all over North Dakota. Then we won't have duck's or N.R's. Oh! maybe I can drain it into the Lake then pump it into the sheyanne and you will have a ample drinking water supply. To bad for Swampbuster. You know I bet sheels down in Fargo really does'nt want to see Gander mountain come into town but they cant stop them now can they. Magnum


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Magnum 3.5 (Darin )

"G/O is a legitamate business nobody could put a stop to that as long as they do things by the book. Nobody puts the stop to a new hardware store or a clothing store because there is to many!"

How bout the fact that anyone who wants to guide waterfowl has to work for a outfitter for 2 yrs. Recently passed into law and promoted by Kyle B. Can you say monopoly!

Big land owner are ya? Thought it was your grandparents but I could be wrong.

What side of the tracks did you shoot that Deer ? Lot a rumors from the locals. I would hate to see you labeled as one of those god darn locals who dont give a sh!!!T.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

> Hey fetch! I got away to improve a wetland it's called a ditch. Drain the slough farm the slough and pay the property tax. More money for the gas man, machinery dealership's, chemical company, seed companys, insurance agents, and parts stores. Spread it out all over North Dakota. Then we won't have duck's or N.R's. Oh! maybe I can drain it into the Lake then pump it into the sheyanne and you will have a ample drinking water supply. To bad for Swampbuster. You know I bet sheels down in Fargo really does'nt want to see Gander mountain come into town but they cant stop them now can they. Magnum


??? where did that come from ???


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## magnum3.5 (Sep 19, 2003)

First of all Fetch I apologize I read your post wrong. I responded wrong. Some wildlife easements kinda get me going sometimes. Dosch my deer was shot in 2L. That's right I did not take him on my family farm I was not lucky enough too draw a 2E tag. I can't understand in what is so wrong with having a a future guide work with a licensed guide for a while Like a electrician,But in the same note I agree a guy should be able to start his own business at any time. 2 years is a long time. Magnum


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