# Furbearer hunting with dogs



## kdesq (Nov 22, 2005)

Wondering what some other landowner/hunters think of this issue. While pheasant hunting not long ago I saw a couple of trucks racing across a stubble field. I got the binoculars and saw that they were chasing a coyote with some dogs. The dogs eventually caught the coyote and started ripping it up. One of the guys in the truck took a bat and thankfully put the coyote out of it's misery.

I'm not against perdator control, but I have some issues with this type of hunting. First, it restricts other hunters. I guarantee landowners who see trucks racing all over their land will surely have the posted signs up before long. I am more than happy to have hunters on my land as long as they are respectful, I would be very p...ed off if someone were doing this on my unposted land. There's also an issue of fairness if these guys get to drive off established trail and bird hunters do not. I enjoy the sport of hunting furbearers and making a clean kill, but this seems like a cruel and archaic method of hunting. Not to mention, this kind of thing is powerful stuff for the animal rights folks.


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

I've always been against the "houndsmen" way of killing coyotes and fox. Though I try my best to keep an open mind about it, cause I know about %5 of them are respectfull. But I'm constantly hearing stories like this on the predator hunting web sites and it gets harder every year to keep any sort of open mind towards these fellas.


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Hunting with hounds the right way and what you seen are too very different things. Hunting with hounds is not for me but i know guys that hunt with hounds or greyhounds and do it respectfully. If it is legal to do in their state and they do it the right way then i will stand behind them to keep it legal but what you seen is NOT how hunting with hounds is supposed to go.

And yes i'm sure any landowner that seen what you did happening on his/her land would be a little fiesty


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## jerry hunsley (Jan 20, 2006)

We all have to keep an open mind on this type of hunting. If we get hunters complaining on hunting issues,and fighting amongst ourselves,it is just more ammunition for the antis. They see hunters bashing other hunters and that is just more fuel for them. As a caller I put up with the houndsmens but some of the ways they go about it are a little troublesome to me. When they use snowmobiles to run them out of draws and get them on the flats, that's not in my opinion fair chase. There are a lot of good houndsmen around the country that are straight shooters and just a few bad apples label them as outlaws. Don't be too quick to judge these hunters. We have to keep an even balance to keep our sports alive.


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

jerry hunsley said:


> it is just more ammunition for the antis. They see hunters bashing other hunters and that is just more fuel for them.


Dont you think running after animals in trucks and snowmobiles like wild men, Beeting animals with bats and letting the hounds rip the animals limb from limb is fuel for the anti's? Who's making who look bad hear?

I think of hunters as one big team. Deer hunters, Pheasnt hunters, duck hunters, goose hunters, rabbit hunters, squirel hunters, predator hunters. Just like any sports team, players get cut to make the team stronger and more successful. It's nothing personal, just sports. Those who get cut can practice their a$$es off to get better and try again next year. And the rest no matter how hard they try will never make the team. Why? WE NEED A STRONG TEAM SO WE CAN WIN. We dont let guy's with cruches or wheel chairs ( like trucks, snowmobiles and site hounds) play cause we'll lose against our competitors (anti's).
Ever seen that show called "The weakest link".

I know what I sound like but I know there are a -few- houndsmen that follow the laws and ethics of man, and this next sentance is dirrected at you. When you see these out law houndsmen in action you should come down on them hard cause their making you look bad.


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## decoyed (Oct 14, 2006)

You guys should watch what you say. bloodygooseguy as a caller i'm sure you never break the law such as trespassing or what ever.I am a caller and houndsman and trust me most houndsman hate callers.The houndsman has the same rights to hunt as you do (Your not special with only for you rights ) and trappers. Theres bad apples in everthing you might not like that but unless you have never done anything wrong you should keep trap shut.Most hunters 99% do it the right way,I hope you fall into that catagory. I think your problem with houndsman is they get more than you and that means less for you,so you can't be a big bragger that you got more than the rest of your pals. You should be happy your hunting and be greatfull when you get something.I have lots of caller friends and some are no better than the bad houndsman you were talking about. bloodyguy you live in high calling area I know this, but some people take coyote hunting to the next level and choose hounds as a tool to hunt, much like you using a varmit rifle to shoot farther why not use a 22 pistol. What i'm trying to say is the bad apples will get weeded out but you need to keep your mouth shut. I and others take offense when you try to bash our sport. (bloodyguy I wrote this to your responce 
because I'm a good friend take ,it seriously ok)


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## badlander (Dec 15, 2006)

Bloodyblinddoor,
What you are saying about the running them down with pick up and snow mobiles is illegal. It is legal to run them with dogs. After they drop the dogs they follow the dogs to dispatch the Coyote, I do not see anythig wrong with that. We have Hunters out here all the time.And they are not hated and all are very good to the land owners.
And another thing you talk about them ripping up the animal and getting a baseball bat to club them. I see your a Bird hunter do you use a Dog? If so are all the Birds dead I dont think so. How do you kill them,by ringing there neck or standing on there breast and stopping there heart. I think everyone should drop it. Its just another way of hunting.

There is no team here and no one is going to be cut. At least I dont want to be on a team. You say you don't want guys in WHEEL CHAIRS. You better grow up. These hunters did not choose to be in a WHEEL CHAIR they were up in them by a accident. And every chance I get I will help them hunters out. There are many hunters that were put in WHEEL CHIAR because of the War on Terrisiam what do you have to say about that. These are the people that are protecting whats right. Grow up or go away


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

I knew this would get a P.O.ed response but hey, a guy needs to vent every once in awhile. The wheel chair thing was taken out of context but thats expected on the internet. Anyway, it's gonna be hard to change my mind about this type of hunting when I constantly hear bad stories about these guy's. Never heard anything like this about predator callers. So like I said early to the GOOD houndsmen. When you see other houndsmens doing somthin dumb, let'em know it bothers you.


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Man, this is really a tough subject. I know its just another opinion but for better or worse, here it goes.

Until you can teach a dog to read a posted sign and a plat book, You are gonna have tresspassing problems and ethical hunt questions. I have hunted with different groups of guys that ran hounds and I gave it up for calling. I seen many times people drop the dog off on land they know is posted and irk the farmer and then bald-face lie and say "oh, I didnt know" or "We didnt think they'd run that way" or some other nonsense. Generally, when people run a bird dog he will stay closeand you can keep it of posted land(as long as the training is there) but I have know coyote dogs to run miles from the drop off point accross countless sections of land(posted or not) and know very well that that dog crossed land it nor its owner had no permission to be on. Not that callers or other types of hunters dont cross the line sometimes but I can say I have never commited 20-30 instances of tresspassing in 1/2 an hour like I have know dogs to do.

The part of it that really irks me is that sometimes those spots that the dogs illegally cross or intrude into are my calling spots that I have permission to be in. Nothing like sitting on stand and having the are surrounded by trucks and bellowing dogs and AR15s. If they have permission for the area, thats the breaks and to bad for me but If not, they just ruined by day. I will also admit that I have set up on land I had permission to be on hoping to call coyotes off posted land but as long as the coyote is on my side of the fence, I have done no wrong.

To all of you houndsmen who keep control of your dogs and gain all the right permission, I apologize and mean no offense and respect your rights to hunt as you enjoy.

I will also note that I dont care for the safety issues involved. Dogs equal running shots on distant coyotes, so what is the answer? Buy an AR 15/Mini 14 and spray bullets out of a 30 rd mag. Sitting on a stand in the middle of a section and being surrounded by guys with rifles is a scary affair to begin with and I have seen instances when there were 5 or 10 guys and 8 of them had ARs or Mini 14s and thats flat dangerous. People do not use their heads and shoot out the window/accross roads/in the direction of the guys on the other side of the section and every thing else stupid. I have also know a fella who did this using FMJ bullets to prevent hide damage. I wondor if he has killed anyone yet?

Decoyed, one final note. Since I have stopped hunting with the houndsmen and learned how to call, my success has skyrocketed since the shots are almost always standing and 50-150 yards. Houndsmen might kill alot of coyotes but it takes alot of guys to surround a section and you might kill 4 in a day but between 8 guys that is .5 coyotes per man so really if I get one in a day, I still did a bit better I believe.

Callers should respect the houndsmen, that is true! Then you must also admit that its also a 2 way street and I ask for that respect back. That means repsect for land owners, callers and whatever other persons using land they are authorized to use ands when they see my truck parked there they skip that area and hunt elsewhere because I will bet you 50 bucks that not one caller on this sight will knowingly go into a spot and crash the dog-hunters party! If you let your dog cross land you know is posted, you are wrong...

Again, I dont wish to offend and I am not saying anything here that I have not personally seen and know to be true. What ever your hunting style, Its is your job as an ethical hunter to police your own ranks or have the antis or your own peers do it for you.

Sorry for the rant :beer:

jaybic


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## Savage Rookie (Oct 10, 2006)

http://www.predatormastersforums.co...=0&Number=52443343&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD

I especially like the part about "...so we caught him and released him in a field, after removing the trap, and let the young dogs after him again had some good fightn and a little blood."

Is this how all coyote houndmen are?

The only time I've been around hounds is on a couple of outings after cougars, and after they're treed we shot them.


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## kdesq (Nov 22, 2005)

Savage Rookie said:


> http://www.predatormastersforums.co...=0&Number=52443343&an=0&page=0&gonew=1#UNREAD
> 
> I especially like the part about "...so we caught him and released him in a field, after removing the trap, and let the young dogs after him again had some good fightn and a little blood."
> 
> ...


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## houndsman (Jan 30, 2006)

I just spent 30 minutes framing up a long and logical response to the infuriating statements I just read on here, and now I just figured 'forget it'. I'm not going to be able to reason with anyone that thinks driving trucks and snow machines across fields is legal for hound hunters. Statements of there only being a 'few' (or only '5%') ethical houndsmen are just so silly that it is fruitless to respond to them. Assuming that 'ALL' do it unethically based on anecdotes just defies reasoning.

I find it interesting that this is in the fox-and-coyote hunting thread though. Gross generalizations, shared by holier-than-thou experts like we've just seen here, were the fundamental underpinnings recently used to ban all coyote hunting and trapping in the great state of Colorado - where it is still banned to this day. Yepper, someone decided to show some gut-shot coyotes and state how 'wrong' it was....so the public did as you ethical superheroes have suggested and stopped it.

I'm so disgusted that I'm seeing red - I'm just going to sign off.

Good luck to you - you'll leave a wonderful legacy for your kids.


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## Mose (Jan 2, 2007)

I really cannot understand what the problem is. Although I find the story about houndsmen spraying a field with ar-15s and mini-14s disturbing it doesn't have anything to do with any normal houndsman. Also if the dogs catch and kill a coyote it is dead. No worse than shooting one that was called in.
As far as dogs crossing posted ground, yes it does happen. However when this happens houndsmen usually just pick their dogs up when they cross a road, or wait for the dogs to quit the track and come back to the truck. There are several other issues that could be addressed but I doubt anyone would care. Alot of you have already made up your mind and will probably ignore anything that is said even if it is the truth.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

You guys are doing just what the antis want you to do. They are taking you down one at a time, who's next? The houndsman? The trappers? Predator callers, we are not far behind. 
If your sport needs to be cleaned up a little do it within....NOT out in the publics eye, they'll eat it up right along with you and your sport. :wink: This topic probably needs to vanish from the board, all those bimbos out there don't need any more ammo....My 2c.


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## Savage Rookie (Oct 10, 2006)

I don't have a problem with houndsmen at all, but the post that i made was an example of poor sportmanship and a poor represantition of the sport. The only way to keep the anti's at bay (no pun intended) is to do a little self policing, and keep the bad examples to ourselves.

I've been around hounds and houndhunters before and never witnessed anything like my example.

Paige


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## kdesq (Nov 22, 2005)

My point is being lost in what I'm learning is a contoversial issue. I'm not proposing elimination of predator hunting, hound hunting, trapping and the like. Maybe this belongs in hot topics. Thanks for the imput.


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## younghunter (Dec 17, 2006)

I hunt almost ever sunday with my uncle we have 5to 6 trucks going at and bout 10dogs but we never ever touch someone land with trucks if a coyet gets caught we walk and shot it not beat it to death. Men were doing that couple years ago with greyhounds they drive in and start shooting and let dgos out when coyote ran. Farmers got put up with and made them leave so now its just us again. It is a bawl though most the time we dont get one but giving the perfect opportunity we take it unless it a manggy coyote then well take a resky shot but we use shotguns so they actually have a good chance of getting away.


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