# Oil and Politicians



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/200806 ... Wef02s0NUE

what a joke, yeah, the Sierra Club is instrumental in solving the energy crisis..... :eyeroll: these guys are one of the groups preventing oil exploration, as China is currently sitting of the Cuban coast slant drilling into the Gulf of Mexico taking oil right off our shores. when the hell are our leaders going to wake up and develop an energy policy that is at least pointed toward some relief? Bush and the congress have been a total failure on this, sat on their ***** for 8 years.........ridiculous..


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> Bush and the congress have been a total failure on this, sat on their a$$es for 8 years.


The President without question has made some blunders during his administration and has failed to take action in a few other areas. But this is one area where the President and the Republicans in congress carry only a small portion of the blame. The overwhelming majority of the blame here can be laid at the feet of the Democratic party who are still putting the screws to the public.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

as if china doen't have her own reserves.. are we ready for another reserve war with china via korea and n vietnam???

alot of the brand new oil rigs showing up are made in china, they seem to work OK so far.

Its a big playground let the cold war with china begin!!


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

Here is another sobering little bit of information. Last quarter Exxon Mobil reported a 11 Billion dollar profit. Sounds like a lot of money doesn't it and is to most of us it is. But did any of you know that Exxon Mobil also paid the Federal Government 9 Billion dollars in taxes last quarter. This doesn't take into account the billions of dollars the federal government makes with the tax at the pump for diesel and gasoline. Yet the Democrats in the Senate tried to push a windfall tax on oil companies through the Senate just today. So who is screwing who here?


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

but the dems believe in "tax and spend".....now known as Obamanomics.
just imagine, in the face of rising food costs. rising energy costs, this jerk-off is proposing the 2nd largest tax increase on American citizens since WW II!

who in the hell in their right mind would vote for this guy? uke:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

That's 11 billion after taxes for just 3 months .....just think how much their profit would have been with lower or no taxes.It is a windfall if it's a lot more than what they made the year before......show that number and compare then say it isn't a windfall.

Sure looks like they are profiteering on our backs doesn't it????

And what does the government gas tax have to do with a windfall for Exxon????

Just keep the rich getting richer.


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## Shu (Oct 21, 2003)

KEN W said:


> It is a windfall if it's a lot more than what they made the year before


Ken, how much is "a lot"?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Windfall......A sudden, unexpected piece of good fortune or personal gain.

Can't say it's a windfall unless you can compare it with normal profits.So what is the normal profit over 3 months for Exxon?I don't know.So that is why I said "a lot."


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Ok ..KEN first of all, just what are "windfall profits??

Might I offer one?

*Try this: "A tax levied on a industry by a politician eager to pander to economically ignorant voters( KEN) who, for whatever reason, are upset with that industry*."

This term "windfall profits" has become another buzzword for liberals, and particularly the Barack Obama campaign. A majority of Americans probably couldn't tell you the first thing about windfall profits ... but the word inflicts these feelings of evil and wealth envy. Therefore, the Obama campaign will continue to use this fancy term to get you all riled up.

Politicians are good at that.

Once again we run up against the economic ignorance of the American people. Most people couldn't tell you the difference between a profit and a profit margin if their flat-screen TVs depended on it. The profit margins - the amount of money they earn for a dollar of sales - have actually declined a bit. Banking institutions, cosmetics companies and pharmaceutical companies are just part of a long list of businesses that earn more than the evil oil companies.

Hopefully most Americans have enough economic smarts to know that the profits from these oil companies belong to the shareholders.

Problem is, these people like Ken mistakenly think that the shares in these oil companies are fat-cat insiders just reaping millions a year from their investments.

Wrong.

Throughout the oil and natural gas industries only about 1.5% of the stock is owned by company executives. Now this statistic doesn't come from the oil companies themselves, the numbers - and the numbers that follow - *come from Bill Clinton's undersecretary of commerce for economic affairs; one Robert J. Shapiro.*

ANd maybe Ken will believe his liberal buds so Ken
here's what Shapiro has to say about the ownership of the other 98.5% of oil company shares:

"The data show that ownership of industry shares is broadly middle class, with the majority of industry shares held by institutional investors, often on behalf of millions of Americans through mutual funds, pension funds and individual retirement accounts."

So ... when Barack Obama talks about a windfall profits tax, just who's money is he going to seize? He's talking about taking the savings, investments and retirement funds of middle class Americans.

GUYS LIKE KEN AND YOU AND I!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pardon my language ... but would you folks please wise up out there? Quit being so damned ignorant to what is really going on!

You want more details on just who owns the shares? OK, I have those details. Just remember, when politicians like Obama talk about windfall profits --- THESE are the people who's money he plans to seize:

Again ... from the Shapiro study:

*Almost 43 percent of oil and natural gas company shares are owned by mutual funds and asset management companies that have mutual funds. Mutual funds manage accounts for 55 million U.S. households with a median income of $68,700. *

*Twenty seven percent of shares are owned by other institutional investors like pension funds.* In 2004, more than 2,600 pension funds run by federal, state and local governments held almost $64 billion in shares of U.S. oil and natural gas companies. These funds represent the major retirement security for the nation's current and retired soldiers, *teachers*, and police and fire personnel at every level of government.

KEN READ THE LAST ONE AGAIN .....YOU KNOW ANY RETIRED TEACHERS GETTING A PENSION?????????

*Fourteen percent of shares are held in IRA and other personal retirement accounts. Forty five million U.S. households have IRA and other personal retirement accounts, with an average account value of just over $22,000.*

You see? The people listed in this study are ... YOU! Not fat-cat oil company executives. Not George Bush and Dick Cheney. This is *YOUR money KEN he's after ... YOUR money KEN he wants to seize to create yet another government entitlement program ... *helping people buy gas and pay electricity bills.

Someone (perhaps John Wayne) once said that it is too bad stupidity isn't painful. Well, in this case is just might be. Look at those median incomes above. That's you, my friends ... and if you sit by and let this anti-capitalist leftist rail against the oil companies; if you sit by and let him pander to the ignorance of the American voters with this idiotic "windfall profits tax" crap ... then try not to ***** when your retirement doesn't turn out to be as sweet as you thought it would.

By the way ... if you want to call BS on me with these numbers and statistics, be my guest. Here's the link for you to read the study for yourself. Knock yourself out, Ken.

http://www.energytomorrow.org/media_cen ... _Study.pdf


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

now, darn it Bobm, you know as well as the next guy, Obama can plainly "invest" your pension funds where they will do the most good..you know, more aid for Africa (the motherland), more money for NEW welfare entitlement programs (the kind that last for MORE than 6 years) and health insurance for all the people too damn lazy to go to work and get their own benes.....now that, my friend, is a big CHANGE! :eyeroll:

*AND OF COURSE, IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF FAIRNESS!*


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> And what does the government gas tax have to do with a windfall for Exxon????


Your joking right? What it means is the government is making more money from the high crude and gasoline prices than all the companies combined. Still, they want more at your expense. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Ken, out of curiosity just what did you teach in school as a teacher? Just curious.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

cwoparson said:


> > And what does the government gas tax have to do with a windfall for Exxon????
> 
> 
> Your joking right? What it means is the government is making more money from the high crude and gasoline prices than all the companies combined. Still, they want more at your expense. Wake up and smell the coffee.
> ...


Smoke and Mirrors 101 :wink:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Ken is a friend of mine and what and who he taught in school is something I respect greatly, as I do him.

So keep this thing on topic, its not about Kens career, one thing that always ruins political debate is when it becomes personal, trust me Ken is a fine person.

I might be poking him some about this topic but its this topic not him I am really poking.

Ken,
I didn't mean this as an attack on you just your position on this issue, and IMO your position is held by most people because we have all been duped by sleazy power hungry politcians.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

Wasn't making it about his career and you know that. It was simply a end question that I was curious about. Nothing more nothing less and certainly not a personal shot.

When you say we have all been duped, please speak for yourself. I don't place myself in that category.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Bob......I stand corrected and more knowledgeable.Thanks for the education.

I'm not afraid to tell people that I have a Social Studies degree.Also a Special Education degree.I worked with Sp. Ed. students for over 30 years.So what does that have to do with any of this???


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> So what does that have to do with any of this???


Nothing as far as a public conversation goes and after thinking about it I probable should have asked the question in a PM. It simply answers a question in my mind and I thank you for the answer.


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

Ken says, Windfall......A sudden, unexpected piece of good fortune or personal gain.

So the farmers that averaged $5.00/bushel wheat the last 5 years and sell it for $9.00/bushel this year would qualify for the windfall tax?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

That's the definition right out of the dictionary.It is what it is.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

I guess WalMart is getting a little nervous about now. They beat out all the big oil companies last quarter for total revenues. Even General Motors was third right behind Exxon Mobil. If profits last quarter is a indication of who should pay windfall taxes then it goes like this for the top five: Exxon Mobil, Citigroup, Bank of America, General Electric, and Chevron. I guess the bankers, utilities and oil producers are in cahoots.


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