# More bad news for your money



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

By this time nest year it is possible that none of us will have any money. None in the stock market, and none in the bank. This is not good news. If your young you can make it up, but us old guys are blown right out of the saddle.

For full story: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... sJZqIFuN3k



> Bair Says Insurance Fund Could Be Insolvent This Year (Update1)
> 
> By Alison Vekshin
> 
> ...


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

oh, i don't think the FDIC would ever default on insuring your funds. if they ever did 2 things would happen: 1) there would no longer be any trade between us and China, ever. 2) there would be a violent revolution in this country with gun battles in the street and total lawlessness. no, the government is dumb, but the are not stupid. Washington would be on fire!


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

Another thing to keep track of this year, the FDIC guarantee on "money market funds will expire at the end of this year. T-bills and cash.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

do you have a source on that bowstring? that's interesting........


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

I read it on one of the news web pages, I'll track it down.


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

form the fdic
http://www.fdic.gov/consumers/consumer/ ... ciorn.html

from vanguard
https://retirementplans.vanguard.com/VG ... urance.jsf

*Covers assets on deposit at close of business September 19, 2008.

**Does not protect against investment losses.

***Only available for the assets held in your Vanguard brokerage account.


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

I might be sooner than that, look at the link

http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/hp1163.htm

When does the program terminate?

The program is designed to address temporary dislocations in credit markets. The current termination date for the program is April 30, 2009. The Secretary has the option to extend the program up to the close of business on September 18, 2009. In order to maintain coverage, funds would have to renew their participation in the program after each extension. If the Secretary chooses not to extend the program at any termination date, the program will end.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

*thank you....some of the key info listed below..watch April 30 date!*

When does the program terminate?

The program is designed to address temporary dislocations in credit markets. *The current termination date for the program is April 30, 2009.* The Secretary has the option to extend the program up to the close of business on September 18, 2009. In order to maintain coverage, funds would have to renew their participation in the program after each extension. If the Secretary chooses not to extend the program at any termination date, the program will end.

Who provides this guarantee? Are investors able to get all of their money back whenever they want?

The U.S. Treasury Department, through the Exchange Stabilization Fund, is providing this guarantee. In the event that a participating fund breaks the buck and liquidates, a guarantee payment should be made to investors through their fund within approximately 30 days, subject to possible extensions at the discretion of the Treasury.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I may sound radical, but I am now convinced Obama isn't that stupid and if he can drive America right into the dirt then everyone will cheer for full fledged socialism. 
I see people withdrawing their names from positions Obama has offered. There is zero confidence in Obama, and it's starting to show by qualified people moving away from him. He is to radical for most left radicals. If he makes it a full four years you will not recognize America. 
I would not be surprised if this spawns a third world war. Obama is leading us into something worse than the world has ever seen. Before this is over we may experience a nuclear winter. Our politicians are loyal to republican or democrat, and not their nation or the states they come from. People voted for Obama for selfish reasons. They voted for a free lunch, or abortion, or same sex marriage, and we will all pay the price.

Sounds radical? Watch. I still hope it will not go that far, but I am convinced we will see riots in the streets before the summer is over. I am also sure that those with savings may loose everything. The old will perhaps have to choose between socialism and starvation. The old may not see the problem first, but they will feel it first. As for the young, that boat they wanted to buy etc. your never going to see it if this keeps up. If you have some money you might as well buy it now, because next year even cash may not be worth much.

I would suggest that some of you dig back and read history. Don't listen to the politicians, go back and read about the last depression. If you pick articles by your partisan bias you will learn nothing.

For the full story: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... udget.html



> March 06, 2009
> Deception at Core of Obama Plans
> By Charles Krauthammer
> 
> ...


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

buy gold, buy silver, get some cash out of the bank while you can. if i am wrong, you are still hedged for future inflation, which is a given by any economist, if correct you will have a small cushion, which may delay desperation. PM is correct, if it goes this way, violent protests will be common, maybe even followed by a new government.....you just never know how crazy things might get when all the people's money dissolves under Obama-hood.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I hope things don't get as bad as I think they may, but someone has to sound an alarm. The liberals are standing around with their thumb in their behind and that deer in the headlights look. Wake up, their is an 18 wheeler behind those headlights. Stop enjoying your thumb.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> I hope things don't get as bad as I think they may, but someone has to sound an alarm. The liberals are standing around with their thumb in their behind and that deer in the headlights look. Wake up, their is an 18 wheeler behind those headlights. Stop enjoying your thumb.


 :lol:  :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If you have not retired yet don't. You will need something to live off of, and your 401K isn't going to do it. If your going to live entirely off your 401k try this exercise. Place your head between your legs, pucker up, and kiss your behind good-bye.

Plant a garden and learn to can.



> 'Obama Bear Market' Punishes Investors as Dow Slumps (Update2)
> 
> By Eric Martin
> 
> ...


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

I have moved this post from a different thread to this thread

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't help but think of it in these kinds of terms:

Liberals want to claim that Capitalism has been proven a failure, based on whatever time frame of recent history they choose to point to.

The problem is Capitalism has been (over time) repeatedly and increasingly handicapped since the 1930s.

A strong American working hard and playing by the rules to improve their future is at the core of Capitalism.

Here's a string of old politially incorrect jokes:

What do you call a woman with one leg .......... Ilene

What do you call a man with no legs .......... Neil

What do you call a man with no legs and no arms sitting on the front porch ....... Matt

What do you call the same guy on the wall ........ Art

What do you call the same guy out in the lake ....... Bob

Liberals lately want to look at Ilene, Neil, Matt, Art and Bob and say that they are evidence that Capitalism does not work.

Just thoughts however inane ... from the desk of the Decoy.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

hunter9494 said:


> buy gold, buy silver, get some cash out of the bank while you can. if i am wrong, you are still hedged for future inflation, which is a given by any economist, if correct you will have a small cushion, which may delay desperation. PM is correct, if it goes this way, violent protests will be common, maybe even followed by a new government.....you just never know how crazy things might get when all the people's money dissolves under Obama-hood.


If this doomsday is to come to fruition, even gold and silver will mean nothing. This apocalyptic event will place food and basic substance's over all others on the priority list.

This is one of the reasons for the design of my home I am building next summer. Geo-thermal heating/cooling and solar power. Combined with a 1 acre garden and well for water...I can be in a better position then most. Oh, and don't forget the ammo.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

MSG Rude said:


> hunter9494 said:
> 
> 
> > buy gold, buy silver, get some cash out of the bank while you can. if i am wrong, you are still hedged for future inflation, which is a given by any economist, if correct you will have a small cushion, which may delay desperation. PM is correct, if it goes this way, violent protests will be common, maybe even followed by a new government.....you just never know how crazy things might get when all the people's money dissolves under Obama-hood.
> ...


good plan rude, being out away from large metro areas will prove to be a bonus.....wish i was in ND as well.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Oh, and don't forget the ammo.


Oh, yes, I'm going to keep at least 50 rounds on hand. dd: Maybe 100 rounds so I have ammo for both of my old single shot rifles.  I sure wish the one wasn't broken though, and the other doesn't have sights.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I heard on the news today that the small banks or as they called them "main street banks" are thriving. I think that this is an indicator, if more people did business in their areas thing would improve faster. It is easier to deal with them, settle disputes, and so on.

The Obama era has been a disapointment to me so far, bear in mind it has only been two months. He preached bi-partisanship so far we have not seen it, the most important legislation in recent history and there were no tax cuts for the people who actually make this economy work and now fail. The only thing that he has done right is created some jobs, even if they are shovel ready, that is the only way to get things moving is to get money moving. Unfortunately this is only a band-aid, until housing and manufacturing are addressed we are in for a long ride. There has to be a solution to get our exports up, too many jobs have left this country and too many educators and counselors have told kids they need to be accountants, IT, bankers, and etc that we now have too many people who do not know how to work, real work. Therefore a re-distribution of wealth is necessary, too many jobs left and too few people profited from this, thus throwing our national cash flow into a tizzy. This would have been fine but since investments have gone in the tank now the only people who gained from outsourcing have been a select few execs and board members. Real cash needs to start flowing and since so few people now have real cash it is going to be hard to get it going. It sucks but it is a reality, the system was manipulated to help them and now they have to reap what they sowed. Corporations need to be reminded that they too have a social responsibility. This is another value that has been lost during the baby boomer generation, the unprecendented greed that we have seen over the last few decades has come to fruition, bad.

The idiots in DC need to stop immigration. Our country was founded on immigrants but the time is up. Most immigrants legal or illegal have been a drain on our system for far too long. How can you create good jobs when so many of them, epecially the shovel ready ones are being filled by illegals. Time to put up the fence and no vacancy signs.

Most economists that I have seen have put us in a bad recession until mid 2010, Obama's right hand man Eric Schmidt thinks we will be out of by the end of the year, highly unlikely. The clock is ticking, many people who voted for Obama like me are already frustrated with the lack of bi-partisanship and the inability to get foreclosures under control and market confidence back. It is not all Obama's fault but if he can't get things done in the next 18 months he will be lame duck after the mid-terms.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Just in case I am not emptying the pantry or the ammo chest for a long time


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Your not alone TK, the republicans are more angry with republican congress than the democrats are with the president, but the democrats are catching up.

Your absolutely right about immigration. This country was built on it, so what. It was built with a horse and plow too, but we don't use many of them any more. That old line is bs and getting real old.

I can't remember where Michelle O. was speaking, but it was somewhere for the homeless, and hundres of homeless showed up. They like her so well they were all taking pictures with their cell phones. Their cell phones? I think welfare is to good. Cut it and those *&&^^% might look for a job. That's just rediculous.

Same with the house loan bail out. Throw them in the street. Why should we who pay our loans also pay for the loans of these lazy fools who think they deserve as much as those who work hard. I'm getting real ticked. I don't have much sympathy anymore. Cell phones my YY%%%&&*..


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

If they were in Fargo they would be driving a BMW (with salvage title) and a cell phone, looking to stage an accident on their way to the Cass county social service office to get their free money.

Fargo has seen some plants come in, namely the glass plants and they figured some of our new citizens would fill the jobs. To no one's surprise they don't work, when you can get hundreds per month and steal whatever else you need, why work?


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Good news, Bad news.

Good news is foreclosures are up from last month but down from last year. Americans are also de-leveraging, proof of that is that for the first time in many years savings accounts are up.

Bad news Walmart is thriving right now. Walmart is not the company that Sam Walton had envisioned them to be. This outfit is one big reason why our manufacturing industry is nearly gone. They are behind companies like huffy, ertl, and other toy manufacturers leaving the US. They are an evil empire when it comes to economic repair, they force companies to leave the US and pay their employee's nothing. Walmart has the most employees' on state aid than any other corporation in the nation. If they were a country they would have the 5th highest economy in the world, so then Walmart is a third world country and american consumers support them tooth and nail.

I believe that Sam Walton was businessman who cared about his social responsibilities and business ethics, I also believe he is rolling over in his grave.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Walmart does more in a day for "lower income" Americans than any Politician ever has.

I wouldn't be so quick to talk the company down ... they provide a great servce to many Americans ... and that's why they are thriving.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

DecoyDummy said:


> Walmart does more in a day for "lower income" Americans than any Politician ever has.
> 
> I wouldn't be so quick to talk the company down ... they provide a great servce to many Americans ... and that's why they are thriving.


What service is that?

If you are talking about lower prices than you have to factor the state aid that some of their employees are on. So then is walmart such a good deal?

Do some research on walmart's bullying of the manufacturing industry, what you will find will make you sick. Politicians are the ones who caused this mess with their idiotic trade agreements that absolutely hung american manufacturing out to dry. Reforming trade will have to include getting us out of current trade agreements and getting into new agreements that level out the playing field. Things like enviromental laws, wages, and qc standards.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Here we go with the anti wal-mart horse pucky again...........

Look, long story short, I work for Wal-Mart, I make very good money, Im treated very well, and I hope to retire here. If you want more details, feel free to PM me, but what you dont know about walmart could fill a book.

I will tell you one part though. The "evil penny pinchers" at Wal-mart have a deal where when my Co-worker takes time off for his army reserve duties, they look at what the army pays for his time, and then pay him the difference so he makes the same money when hes on duty or when hes at work.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

I hate going in walmart it is hard trying to find anyone who is willing to help or speaks english. For the one guy who makes good money there are 300 who dont. I would not work there when i was in college because the pay was crappy. For me it is not worth the extra 3 dollars i save shopping there than suporting my local buisness people.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

I love all the anti walmart crap.

All the local business's were crying when they came here that they would all have to shut down.

Well magically, none of them did, but they did have to raise their lowest salaries by $3 an hour.

So why do you think they were crying?


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Glad things are going well for you Gun Owner, and SDbear fan the same thing happened in Wahpeton from what I gather. It is good to hear that they do a few things right, but I am with Kurt R. 20% of their employees do ok, a lot of them are still on aid, that is a fact.

For the overall american economy their tactics are still bad. It is hardly crap or horse pucky to the people who used to work at american factories making a good product. Now that product is made at a sweat shop or concentration camp in china for pennies on the dollar. This product is now a piece of junk, poisonous, and not worth the box it is shipped in. Who gains? A factory with 500 workers averaging $15/hr is gone for good, most of those people generally end up making less. Gone also are tax revenues from the sales and the property, gone are the local suppliers of that factory. The staggering domino effect hits housing, schools, and main street. Who gained? only executives and the like, shareholders used to gain but now that the market is in the tank shareholders didn't gain either. Once again brain dead trade policies.

You may not like to hear it but it is a fact, outsourcing has killed our economy. Walmart is not the only problem but they are the biggest problem.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Is the assumption here that all these Walmart employees were once in high paying respectable jobs and somehow they were then forced to come work at Walmart and into a situation which put them onto State Aid?

I think that is standing the situation on it's head for the sake of your argument. I won't even get into discussing the truthfullness of your stated "facts" ... so assuming you are correct ... and also rationally realizing Walmart did not create their need for aid.

Would you prefer to see low skilled folks out across America on Federal or State aid and also unemployed?

Walmart employes thousands upon thousands of low skill or unskilled workers ... young folks looking for entry level opportunities ... retired folks looking to supplement income and any variety of folks in between.

And none of them are forced to work at Walmart ... They choose to.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

You make some good points decoy, and no need to assume they are facts. Walmart has thrived by our politician's brain-dead and pocket lining deals and we are all paying the price now. As I said I pick on Walmart because they are the biggest problem in this mess and the fact that they are thriving in this economy is not good news because I think other corporations will copy their tactics.

The problem here is the lack of social responsibility (not socialist) in our business climate. The business world has abandoned their responsiblities to their communities and their associates. All this because of greed, we look at our economic mess and it is crystal clear. It goes right to the heart of the solution to our problems, KurtR is on the money, support your local businesses and your community whenever possible. Our economy does well when middle class and small businesses are thriving and this too is obvious now.

The problem is bad policies in the past boiling over now, we need to get manufacturing jobs back on american soil, thus creating exports. This will be a tough sell when you consider that countries like china, india, japan, germany, etc are naturally tight with their money. New trade agreements that level the playing field for american companies. This is clear here in our region, jobs at bobcat and case are going and will probably gone soon. Just like Imation in Wahpeton.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Here is some more bad news for your money. Remember Obama telling Joe, or Bob or something the plumber he wanted to spread the wealth around. Read this and ask yourself, are we just calling names when we call them socialists?



> Windfall Tax on Retirement Income
> 
> Adding a tax to your retirement is simply another way of saying to the American people, you're so darn stupid that we're going to keep doing this until we drain every cent from you. That's what the Speaker of the House is saying. Read below...............
> 
> ...


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

One can never forget that the first order of any business in to make a Profit. That is the first step in fulfilling any other responsibility you or I might think a company has. Without a profit nothing is possible not even the survival of the business itself.

I know very little about what folks on this board do (or have done) for a living, I'll tell anyone who wants to know I managed retail stores (national chain stores) for 20 years. I'll add that I have been a self employed sole proprietor for about 15 years now.

Aside from the cost of goods sold ... Payroll (including benefits) is by far the largest expense for any operation of this type. In order to be competative it must be managed closely, because every competitor you have is doing the same.

Retail stores, especially Discount Retailers, do not hire doctors and lawyers to run the cash register. They might hire young folks aspiring to be doctors or lawyers, but most of the jobs in these stores or relatively short duration jobs for the vast majority of employees. Normally if we could get one to two good years from an employee we had done well, because by then they were ready to move to another stage in their life.

These are youngsters, college students, house wives, seconds job for folks in need of additional income, disabled folks, retired Military still young enough to work but mainly looking to fill in empty time ... the list goes on and on and on.

Those few actually interested in and looking for a long term relationship with us and with a skill-set for the business are always able to move up into more favorable positions, but that is not what the vast majority of employees are looking for.

If anyone is thinking that some person takes a job at Walmart for the starting hourly rate ... having no incentive to move up in the company, but being trapped into some low level job for ever as if it were enslavement, please step back an think it through.

I realize that notion is appealing to some folks for the sake of their argument, but even without regard to Walmart, it just isn't the reality out there in the world of Discount Retail.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

> realize that notion is appealing to some folks for the sake of their argument, but even without regard to Walmart, it just isn't the reality out there in the world of Discount Retail.


There are companies out there like costco and target that do a much better job taking care of their employees' and their social responsibilities.



> One can never forget that the first order of any business in to make a Profit. That is the first step in fulfilling any other responsibility you or I might think a company has. Without a profit nothing is possible not even the survival of the business itself.





> Liberals lately want to look at Ilene, Neil, Matt, Art and Bob and say that they are evidence that Capitalism does not work


Discount retail is an animal of its own and I am not going to be a poser and say that I know more than you do about it but there is a better way. One of the roots of our economic collapse is manufacturing, retail is a byproduct. Walmart and the like have forced manufacturing overseas and investors were foaming at the mouth to invest in companies that moved to china. The profits that have been driven up by walmart and the like and the greed that they have displayed has been set up by Washington, DC. Capitalism can not work under these bogus trade agreements. As I said above, crooked politicians whose pockets have been lined by these people have wrote and passed legislation. And then a collection of idiot presidents have signed trade agreements that screw americans in the end. Sure we all like things cheap but when you look back now how cheap is it in the long run.

Retail has gone down because people are not spending, the causes are the housing market and manufacturing. Until we get this done you can kiss any economic recovery right in the a$$


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

I apologise for being so long winded, but the fact of the matter is I love my company, and I will not stand by and listen to someone speak so poorly of the company that took a chance on a guy from 500 miles away that wanted nothing more (and found) a better way to take care of his family.



TK33 said:


> There are companies out there like costco and target that do a much better job taking care of their employees' and their social responsibilities.


How does Target and Costco do anything different than Wal-mart? They sell the same products. I can get the same brand DVD's, Bicycles, and Mayonaise at all 3 stores. Wal-mart simply charges less. How do they do that? micro-management of money. If they see a cost that can be cut, they do. Its a team effort. Wal-Mart encourages its employees to seek out ways to cut costs at very basic levels.

A good example of this is when diesel fuel prices reached close to $5.00 a gallon. Our shop looked at things from a mechanical point of view to see how to increase our mileage. We increased tire pressures from 80 psi to 100 psi. We sacrificed a small amount of driver comfort for the sake of saving a few cents per mile. We spent a LOT of time making sure every truck and trailer was meticulously aligned to reduce rolling resitance. We started making an effort to keep the trucks cleaner to reduce air resistance.

Our driver group got together on their own, and looked at the logged fuel mileage of different trucks. It was soon easy to see that some drivers got signifigantly better mileage than other drivers. The drivers that got the best mileage actually taught classes to other drivers on how to drive more efficiently.

What was the end result? In one month we saved approximately $180 THOUSAND dollars in fuel. Thats not country wide, that was our DC, with approximately 150 trucks. What else happened? Thirty-five percent of our fleet began to average more than 8 mpg, some as high as 8.4mpg. When word got out, we had service reps from both International Trucks and Cummins coming to completely go over the trucks head to toe, ride along with the high MPG drivers, and calculate the mileage themselves because it was common knowledge that it was impossible for an International 9400i with a Cummins ISX, Eaton 10 speed and 2.64 rear end gear to acheive greater than approximately 7.5 mpg.

What happened to the money we saved? First and foremost the Transportation Manager was so happy that all the drivers and grease monkeys were treated to a T-bone steak dinner. It was our reward for taking the initiative to solve a problem we were facing head on. The rest is passed on as a savings to the customer. If the goods cost less to ship, the goods cost less.



TK33 said:


> Walmart and the like have forced manufacturing overseas and investors were foaming at the mouth to invest in companies that moved to china.
> Retail has gone down because people are not spending, the causes are the housing market and manufacturing. Until we get this done you can kiss any economic recovery right in the a$$


Wal-mart doesnt cause any of this. The consumer does. If the consumer finds they can buy chinese pencils for $1.00, or US pencils for $2.00, the consumer will buy the chinese pencils. Now you could say that the stores should only buy US pencils. Thats fine and dandy, but untill its illegal to buy foreign products, the retailer that can find the cheapest product and sell it at the lowest price will see the most profits. Thats called capitalism.

Now if you as a consumer choose to spend more for an American product, thats fine. But you cant fault Walmart for supplying a product the average consumer wants to buy.

Heres a good one for you. Walmart has been steadily increasing their presence as a grocery retailer. In an effort to cut costs for groceries, Walmart researched the hell out of locally supplied produce. Thats right, AMERICAN produce. IT was quickly discovered that the transportation costs of Asparagus from Argentina completely eliminated any cost savings from cheaper foreign produce. Walmart took the time to get with both large and small production farms in local markets to be able to offer quality goods at low prices.

To put it simply, walmart doesnt care where the product comes from, as long as it offers the best value to the customer.

Seriously though, bottm line is you can read whatever you want on the internet about how evil Walmart is. You can find just as many articles from well studied individuals on how dangerous guns are. You as a hunter know that the stupid arguments about firearms are in fact stupid. Im telling you as a Walmart employee and customer that your opinion is based on someone elses (typically union) biased views and you in fact do not know what you re talking about, and should probably spend a little more effort researching both sides of the story before presenting your argument.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

The bad thing is Walmart is not breaking any laws. Bad trade agreements have pushed us into a staggering defecit, that is not Walmart's doing but their business practices are leading the US off of a cliff.

Walmart does in fact tell their suppliers to give it to them cheaper or they will get it from someone else, they run prices so low that no one can compete with them. This is monopolization, which is the opposite of capitalism-the system we are allegedly under. The facts that Walmart cannot run from are that they have a lot of workers on state aid, they have been hit many times for labor violations, and they have no intentions of changing. Walmart does have the right to do this, but the cost of this to americans is being realized now. The problem is the manufacturer's have to compete with child labor, no enviromental laws, the chinese gov't intentionally suppressing their currency, and no qc standards.

Costco and the like pay better and have better benefits than walmart, they also have less turnover. This means less people on state aid and that the consumers and tax payers are not getting double dipped.

Walmart buying american produce is great news. Hopefully this trend continues, there are some electronics/tech corporations that are moving production back to the US because of quality and logistical advantages. Walmart's business practices are dangerous and if they are copied the trend and defecit will never end. They go against everything capitalism and fair market trading stand for.

The blame here goes on consumers and politicians. Until people realize that the trade defecit will continue to cripple us and that eventually china and japan may want to get paid back someday we are in trouble.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Blah, Blah, Blah.

Blame the big bad superstore for everything.

Nobody forces anyone to work there, nobody forces anyone to shop there.

They operate within the laws and agreements that our congress has set forth. They all sell the same stuff, only walmart does it at a lower price. If they negotiate due to their volume lower prices, so be it. There is no law saying the others can't do the same thing.

I would also say that if forced, by trade agreements or legislation, that all superstores could only sell us USA goods, they would be the best at that.

Blame the rich, Blame the SuperStores, blame everyone but whom really set up the situation you have a problem with, the politicians. You don't like it, vote people in that have the same isolationist view. As it currently stands, our manufacturing age is over, we are a consumer nation. Maybe the current shift in our economy will change all this, maybe not. But in the past, many complained about all the crappy, poor paying, manufacturing jobs. Now that has shifted. As long as people are willing, whats the problem.

Walmart supplies a lot of jobs and part of the reason this economy is holding on at all.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

News flash here:

Every company large enough to have any leverage at all with suppliers negotiates the cost of goods.

The tactics are the same for everyone ... Those being, in a nutshell:

If you demand more than I am willing to pay or can't meet my needs in any other way and another supplier will meet my requirements ... I will not buy from you ... I will buy from them instead.

TK33, I am beginning to seriously question your experience and knowledge of business. This stuff really isn't rocket science.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

the consumer is in no shape to sponsor a recovery now or for sometime going forward. 401K's have been destroyed, home values for many are less than what they owe and jobs are going by the wayside quickly. the rise in taxes coming will also help kill any recovery, as taxes will increase before unemployment falls to 6% or less.

even if we could stabilize all these things, the average consumer would likely go back as a saver to replenish what he has lost. home values especially will be many, many years waiting to regain their value.....a consumer based economy like ours is in trouble. as many have said, we don't produce crap anymore....a service economy like ours is based on consumers wanting and needing more and more products and services.

we will all be doing with less going forward......any recovery will be muted and yes, Wal-Mart shoppers will be out there, because they can no longer afford to go to Traget or Cosco......


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Let me say once again: Walmart is not breaking any laws. We as consumers have contributed to this problem. Crooked DC hacks that are supposed to be looking out for us have screwed us good in the past.



> TK33, I am beginning to seriously question your experience and knowledge of business. This stuff really isn't rocket science.


As I said above the overall problem lies with Washington, the problem with Walmart is when other companies copy their tactics we are going to continue down the same path. I am not going after the retail end I am going after the manufacturing end and the effect it has on our defecit. So you think that every other business should just pay less, move all production overseas, and just use state aid to subsidize their employees? So you are saying that it is ok for the government to subsidize or just plain old pay for the employees of these companies. THAT IS SOCIALISM!!!!



> Walmart supplies a lot of jobs and part of the reason this economy is holding on at all.


The fact is the practices of walmart and the like have eliminated more jobs than they have provided, shipped more money overseas than they have kept here, and been more of a drain on our social services than ever before in history.

Walmart's monopolies and trade practices go against fair market capitalism, that also is not rocket science.

*As 9494 said above we will be going forward with less than we have now, so remember this when our taxes go up to pay for all of the employed welfare cases in this country.*


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

TK33 said:


> Walmart's monopolies and trade practices go against fair market capitalism, that also is not rocket science.


Just what does Wal-Mart have a monopoly on? They buy from the same people as everyone else. Once in awhile you may see a prodcut advertised as "only at wal-mart" but you see the same thing for sears, Kmart, and Target.

And where is your factual basis for this claim of wal-mart employing the most amount of people on state-aid? Does it differentiate people on food stamps from people that are maybe recieve partial disability, receive government aid for tuition costs, or maybe that single mother that can only work at walmart at night while shes going to school during the day that might happen to be on WIC? I doubt it.

Do you know that walmart bases its pay on competetive wage? Walmart pays its employees based on how much people in the same field receive at other companies. At minimum wal-mart looks into this yearly. I recieved a 50 cent per hour raise in January because of this system. We werent expecting squat due to several shops in the area actually laying people off and suspending all raises. Did you know that Wlmart pays bonuses based on efficiancy? We recieve a bonus quarterly based on how efficiant our center is. The last two quarters we've shown 100% efficiancy. That means walmart pays me $1.00 per hour for every hour I worked during the previous quarter.

For the record, Im not in management. Im a grease monkey in the shop. When you see a big white truck on the freeway with Walmart on the door, I work on it. I change oil, brakes, seals, fix floors and walls in trailers, and all sorts of other shop work. Do I make more than the guy cleaning the toilets at the supercenter? Damn right I do. thats the difference between SKILLED labor and UNSKILLED labor.

But did you know something else? Walmart routinely hires from inside itself. If you were a werehouse worker with a very basic mechanical knowledge, and there is a position for a tech 1 open in the shop, you can apply for it. We will train them how to do the job. they start out fueling trucks and assisting other techs in the shop with various repairs, and start at somewhere around $15.00 an hour. That is TWICE as much as I made during my apprenticship at Caterpillar in 1997. We are constantly training people within our shop so that they can have the opportunity to move up. Two of my supervisors started out as level 2 mechanics, a position I currently hold.

You keep rambling about stuff you seriously dont know about. Everyone has himed in to try and help explain this yo you, but you simply dont get it. You want to be an isolationist. Thats fine. It worked real well for us in the early 20th century didnt it? Why not try again....

My last point is this. If you're ****** at DC, be ****** at DC. But spreading lies and mistruths about the company that my family and the families of my friends depend on for a source of income or a wise place to spend income does nothing but piss me off. You are the reason certain cities have laws banning big box stores in an effort to keep Walmart out.

Beyond this, Im done with this thread. You hate walmart because someone told you to. Qui being a lemming and educate yourself.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

TK33 ... your notion that Walmart is the originator of all business practices that are bad and that they have discovered a way to hire folks and have the State pay them is very novel.

But you are actually soundling like some guy with an rabid agenda against Walmart. Your argument is so repetative and irrational that (with all due respect) you sound a bit whacky.

If you have a problem with Consumers and Politicians and believe the probelm is in Washington (as you clearly stated in previous posts) ... take it up with them ...

You are now beginning to repeat "mitigating" comments toward Walmart, go figure :roll:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

First of all, I have used the term Walmart and the like, it is not just walmart. Second, when I was in college 10yrs ago business professors did teach some of the practices that walmart uses, most of it was the good things they do but not all of it. This was back when everybody thought that outsourcing was so great because it helped raise the almighty stock value, a lot of good that does now.

I find it very ironic that the very same people who continuously complain about socialism have no problem with the way that walmart does things. I suggest that you guys do some research of your own and look at states like AR, FL, TN, and other southern and southeastern states and see where their state budgets are at and then look up the number of walmart employees on welfare, once again it is not just walmart but they are the biggest so they are the most scrutinized. It is interesting that walmart refuses to answer any questions about this but they are very quick to get in front of a mic and boast about their revenues.

Read these, it will take a while and it gets redundant, BUT YOU CANNOT TELL ME I DID NOT DO MY OWN RESEARCH  If you think I sound like a whacko or some idiot or an isolationist than I guess all these people will too.

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html
http://economistsview.typepad.com/econo ... _wal_.html

Yes the problem is in DC, that is why I put my original post in the politics forum it was to highlight the problem with our money. Until people force DC to change trade policies, like Obama said he would our deficit will continue to be a problem. Everyone knows it is housing and manufacturing that brought us down and now we have to get that rolling again in order to get the economy moving up.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Well, I typed up a long winded response, but I'll leave it at this.

Keep banging on walmart, if it makes you feel better. They provide tons of jobs. Most of the people working the lower income jobs there, couldn't make any more elsewhere or are just getting a second or school job, and most probably make more.

But on with the parade, down with the evil empire! LOL.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

I go in the aberdeen walmart every now and then and everytime i leave i say never agin just because of the people on the floor. i think i is kind of funny the one guy who was for obama tk33 is arguing aginst a corperation who obama loves because it is those people on state aid that will keep voitng for him. Sure there is good paying jobs but for every guy making $70,000 a year there are ten making 17,000. We want this ecomomy to get better but it sure as hell is not going to happen when everything we buy says made in china and that goes for all stores not just wall turd.


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