# Bismarck Tribune article regarding caps



## SiouxperDave25 (Oct 6, 2002)

Flap over duck licenses may be taking wing again
By RICHARD HINTON, Bismarck Tribune

A guide and outfitter group is worried that the North Dakota Game and Fish Department will implement caps on the number of nonresident duck hunters in specific zones this fall, but such caps aren't the choice of Game and Fish, an official said Wednesday.

Kyle Blanchfield, the president of the North Dakota Professional Guide and Outfitters Association, has circulated an e-mail warning members that "NDGF ... is hinting at instituting the HPC in these zones ...."

Not true, Roger Rostvet, deputy director for the Game and Fish Department, said on Wednesday. "We have no plans to input something like that," he said.

HPC is short for "hunter pressure concept," a formula devised by Game and Fish that crunches the number of resident duck hunters, the number of nonresident duck hunters and an index of available wetlands to come up with an annual cap on nonresident duck licenses. The hunter pressure concept was part of SB2048, which drew crowds for and against during the 2003 legislative session. The bill didn't survive a close House vote. That bill was one of several in the session that pitted supporters of more liberal nonresident hunting regulations against residents seeking sharper nonresident restrictions.

What Game and Fish is looking at, Rostvet said, is establishing three new zones for nonresident hunters. One, identified as zone 3, would cover most of the state, while two smaller areas would address "areas of concern in the south-central and mid-central parts of the state." They would be zones 1 and 2, but the boundary lines still are to be established.

While nonresident duck hunters this fall will be limited to a 14-day license, the plan, which is still preliminary, would cut hunting time to seven days in one of the two small zones, Rostvet said. The plan would allow nonresidents to hunt throughout zone 3 for 14 days. A nonresident's other option would be to hunt in zones 1 or 2 for seven days and hunt in zone 3 for the other seven days, or they could start in zone 3 and finish in one of the smaller zones. Either way, the idea is to use the zones and the number of days hunted as the nonresident hunter management tool, Rostvet said.

The small zones would be in areas where there is concern over nonresident versus resident hunters. "We want to see if this management scheme is workable," he said.

Blanchfield said he and other guides in the NDPGOA could work with the nonresident hunter zones and the time frames. "But a cap put the fear of God in us," he said, comparing a such a possibility to a "triple whammy."

Rostvet wouldn't rule out limits on nonresident hunter numbers in the two small zones, however. "It's possible there would be limits in zones 1 and 2, but it would be an upper limit," he said.

A limit or cap by any name is what worries Blanchfield and the state's other guides and outfitters. Blanchfield owns a resort and runs a guide service in the Devils Lake area.

Blanchfield said he spoke by telephone with Rostvet on Wednesday. "He (Rostvet) expressed they are considering limits in both zones (1 and 2), 7,500 total in both zones," Blanchfield said.

Rostvet said that figure was off the top of his head when Blanchfield asked for a hard number.

"I looked, and it's a little closer to 8,500," he said. "That's the number of nonresidents who hunted in that area last year. If we were to go with what was there last year, that's what was there last year."

Blanchfield, however, sounds like a man waiting for the other shoe to drop.

"I'd bet you anything on the dollar that a limit is a huge part of the thing," he said. "If they want to put limits on hunters, they have to lay their cards on the table and be responsible for the backlash that comes with it."

Rostvet said a nonresident hunter cap may be necessary because of the hunter influx into the two small zones after Game and Fish draws attention to those zones by identifying them as prime duck-hunting country.

Blanchfield has the same concern. "These zones are the hot spots, the place to go," he said. "It exacerbates the problem. Psychologically, people get panicky (and have to hunt there). It's like a run on the market."

Still, Rostvet said the ideal scenario would allow the zones and the seven-day time limit be the management tool for nonresident hunters. "Not caps," he said.

Blanchfield's e-mail asked NDPGOA members to contact Gov. John Hoeven's office and express their concerns. Ron Rauschenberger, a policy adviser in the governor's office, said they had received some e-mails. Hoeven has the last word on what final shape the 2003 proclamation takes.

Don't expect any definitive word soon on caps or the 2003 regulations, however. The waterfowl proclamation typically is among the last ones published. Since waterfowl are species included in the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service first has to lay out a framework for the states to work within when setting season dates and bag limits. "That usually happens in July or August," Rostvet said.

The 2003 duck season will be a new ball game for all parties concerned. This will be the first year nonresident hunters will have to buy separate upland and waterfowl licenses. Each will cost $85. Last year, an out-of-state hunter could buy an upland license and add a waterfowl license for another $10. Nonresident licenses last year also were capped at 30,000.

But Blanchfield still worries. "Behind closed doors, a cap is a huge part of this thing," he said, "but maybe I'm paranoid after the session and everything."


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

It is at least a little more of a honest story. - But they fail to give all the history & facts leading up to why there should be caps

Also this zone proposal is weird & how did they come up with it - As if DL is not a Hot spot ??? & in many ways overcrowded ???

Plus no thought on the water situation ??? - Trust me everyone & their brother knows where it is wet & where it is dry & where the ducks are going to be - Heck I could have told you last year :roll:

But it seems thay picked high traffic areas with the least guides to try this on ???

I will predict if the # of NR licenses goes much above 30,000 this year - there will be problems like never before :eyeroll: Maybe then someone in charge will do the right things - But I doubt it :******:

Try spreading them out in more zones & by dates (weeks they can come - a 1st 2nd 3rd choice - with limits - Caps (or management) what ever you want to call it.

Bottom Line that needs to be spread, on as many sites as possible - GO TO CANADA it is No Hassle & Better hunting & with the exchange rate a much better deal.

Funny how they (guides) get their concerns on TV & Radio & in the papers - & they get the ears of the Govenor & Legislature & officials at the G&FD - they are so far ahead of us in the battle of PR & BS. we may never catch up :eyeroll:

Without a strong Waterfowlers Assn. we will always get beat out of real possibilities & they will spin things, as compromise, to get their way.

Where the Vast majority are Freelance hunters - that do not pay - (that come & use these areas) But yet the Guides want a open # of possibilities to fill their schedules ??? Or even worse expand on Pay to hunt. :******: WHY & HOW by leasing up all the lands they can get. & getting landowners Mad at the residents so the only good stuff left is theirs. & it used to be mostly for SOB hunting - But if they had to depend on that they would go broke for sure - They are now after as much of the duck lands as they can get. :******:

Please remember - People in small towns & weather you live in the west -central - North or South, part of the State - the ones filling your motels & resturants & bars are Freelance - Not Pay to hunt - brought in by guides

So why let them dictate the rules & Laws & management - Why even 50 %of the possible changes (as in Compromise) ???

Call the Govenor & anyone who cares & will listen to hear the TRUTH !!!

Thanks for the tip on the article


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I'd laugh if most NR's decided to Boycott ND this year - With all the Goofy changes & Lies & Truths & weather etc etc. & folks trying to figure out which is which (If it were not so sad - I'd Laugh & maybe I can get over it & learn to laugh about it ???)

I think the Govenor & G&FDirector & Tourism & Hospitality folks & Guides & Outfitters Have pooped in their own nests :lol: They all have greedy & selfish reasons for keeping the #'s high & have not been honest with either NonResidents, or Residents, or the Legislature (But they compromised on the commercial sides to all this :roll: )

You get what you give :wink:

But it may take a few years of further decline, of what we once had, But then it may be to late to reverse the good thing we had, but let slip away. :-?

I will always BLAME Govenor Hoven & MR Hildebrand - what a sad Legacy


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Middle of May and Kyle is starting the PR machine already. I do hope that as crunch time nears we can get the push to send a message of our own to Gov. Hoven.

This is my opinion but we need to keep the pressure on and not let this get decided without our input. Dan B and others have put great effort into these issues and a muddled mess may work in our favor two years from now but I would prefer to decide where the front line is instead of the opposition drqing the line.

With the summer fun getting into full swing we need to be prepared to make sure our voice is heard. Contact of your local people and other efforts should start soon.

What about the Tree


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

I still get my hometown paper, and when I saw it today the breakdown of liscences for NR waterfowlers was in there for this fall. It is absolutely amazing the differences that can exist between two neiboring states. Read especially the talk about commercialization along the Missouri River. Sounds familiar doesnt it???
NONRESIDENT WATERFOWL UNITS AND LICENSES SET FOR 2003

PIERRE - The Game, Fish and Parks Commission has finalized South Dakota's nonresident waterfowl
licenses for 2003 with one significant change from what had been proposed.

Representatives from Brule and Buffalo counties earlier requested that Unit 100X, the 3-day, private land only,
nonresident license, be made available in their area.

"After receiving public input on the matter, the GFP Commission chose against including the two counties in
unit 100X," said Assistant Director of Wildlife George Vandel. "Local duck hunters expressed concerns that
commercial interests would increase and possibly reduce the existing duck hunting opportunity for residents on
private sloughs and potholes if the additional nonresident licenses were allowed in the area."

Nonresident waterfowl units, license numbers and provisions for 2003 include:

Unit 100A - 200 special licenses valid for entire season in Union, Clay, Yankton, Bon Homme and
Charles Mix counties. 
Unit 100B - 3,775 special statewide licenses valid for 10-consecutive days. 
Unit 100C - 2,000 early fall Canada goose licenses valid for entire early season in Brown, Marshall,
Roberts, Day, Grant, Clark, Codington, Deuel and Hamlin counties. 
Unit 100D - 25, 10-day licenses with two Canada goose tags for Bennett County, valid Oct. 25 to Dec.
21. 
Unit 100X - 1500 fall 3-consecutive-day licenses valid only on private land in the counties of Potter, Sully,
Stanley, Hughes and Lyman. 
Unit 100Y - 500, 3-day licenses in Brown, Marshall, Roberts, Day, Grant, Clark, Codington, Deuel and
Hamlin counties. 
Unit 100S - 10,000 spring snow goose licenses valid for entire conservation order.

Nonresidents can purchase no more than one waterfowl license prior to Nov. 1, but may purchase a second one
from Nov. 1-30 if licenses remain. Licenses remaining after Nov. 30 can be purchased on an unlimited basis.
Nonresidents are allowed to apply for both an early fall Canada goose license and one of the regular fall
licenses.


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## erica (May 17, 2003)

Resident waterfowl hunters should take a lesson from the NR. Appreciate what we have here and say thank you to the landowners that allow you to hunt at all. I would guess that if all this foolishness keeps on there may not be anywhere to hunt. Remember the landowners control access. I certainly do not have a problem with limiting NR waterfowl hunters based on biological need of a speicies, but they cannot be limited just because some residents feel they should be. There are plenty of places to hunt just get out there and ask. You could have shot a cannon off here last fall and not worried about hitting anyone. In other words, in this area of excellent hunting there were no hunters. :******:


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

erica, welcome to the forum. I have to question your stated position a bit. Remeber that the citizens of the state write the game regulations. Wether we agree an individuals or not. Period. As a farmer myself I have had no bad experiances with hunters, nodackers or NRs. However unlike your area, we get a lot of pressure because there are no caps worthy of the name. That is the situation in much of the eastern and southern parts of the state. While you want more NRs, the rest of us would take less. Why not ask the governor for a zone around Devils Lake and fill it up with NRs? You will be happy, we will be happy. More for you-less for us. A number of people from your area have said there is no hunting pressure there. Maybe there is a reason. What is it? Maybe you need a poster of your own design that would bring hunters in? I post with a "YES HUNTING-THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING AGRICULTURE". While it is nice to be thanked by hunters, this my way of thanking hunters for the farm program, diaster aid, and the many monetary perks that come to us farmers from the public. Thanks should flow both ways, don't you agree?


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## joel5898 (May 18, 2003)

I try and read these topics and keep and open mind. But when I see comments like "Go to Canada" as solutions to a very difficult and two sided problem, I have to respond.. Fetch I guess that option is available to you also or maybe MOVE TO CANADA!! I live in Minnesota and have watched our lake shore properties bought up by NR's including a great number of North Dakota residents..Would I like less competition for fishing and property values, of course..But this is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, not North Dakota of America or Minnesota of America. In a perfect world there would be enough hunting land and game for everyone!! But since there is not, we have to make due and not try and become isolationists... And yes moving to Canada is an option for everyone!!!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

The issue has been debated from both sides of the issue. Isolationism is not the goal nor do most that I know dislike the NR traveling to hunt. Most do not realize that limiting NR also limits the expantion of G/O which are and will ruin this state for all huntings. Take this issue and apply it to your favorite lake that you fish. In most lakes if 20 percent of the lake holds 90% of the fish and someone leased that 20% leaving you the area that held only 10% would you be so quick to fault those that where trying to protect your and my option to pursue the area that held 90%. This is not an exact analogy but one that illistrates the issue at hand.

Unlimited numbers will bring more and more leasing forcing those that cannot pay or choose not to on the limited area that hold game. We then will lose young and begining hunters as parents wll be unable to give there children a quality experience in the field.

Thank you for your interest and response, I hope this gives you a better understanding so that you do not assume that most involved are not anti-NR.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I have this * FEELING * :roll: :lol: that the new person who will be watching over the commercial side will have some effect on the leasing situation.

At least it will not be as easy as it has been & things should start being done on a more professional basis

I also have faith that maybe the enforcement side of things - (In ND) are about to become a higher priority & I'm all for that. No longer will we (or should we) see things happen that disgust us all. (at least I have faith that it is about to be strengthened)

It really is time to see the NDG&FD become not only one of the best at providing G&F but protecting them from the rise in people coming to harvest them.

Would'nt it be great to maybe even see the next DIRECTOR, maybe come from Enforcement ???

I think the time is right ??? (maybe a few years off- but when it happens I sure pray & think we need a strong person to support & expand this most important part of G&F -> ENFORCEMENT!!! (who better knows the concerns & truth of what is happening in ND ???)- especially if it is going to be managed by folks who don't know what they are doing :roll: (especially if those people are in the Legislature & Govenors office) :eyeroll:

But time will tell :-?

A stong enforcement Division along with an expanding PLOTS program & who knows maybe even DU will find a way ??? to help the deadlock in the USFWS buying & expanding wetlands - Like WPA's again ???

& maybe if this new DU scheme catches on :roll: ND should start 
Budgeting for or spend some reserves on buying these back ??? Before the commercial sides to this do ???

Plus I hope the Sportsman's Alliance can continue to grow & and be admired & respected as group of people in the know & that care about ND above personal profits & just more people, at any cost & to help be there to remind the Government what is the right things to do. A Spade has been called a Spade & can no longer be able to manipulate & SPIN things to go their way - for real selfish reasons that really does'nt help their regions as much as many think.

All this would help keep ND a great place to Live & hunt - Don't ya think ??? & should'nt that be the main goal ???

There is Hope - Patiences Fetch Patiences :-? :beer: :wink:

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erica nice 1st post :roll: go back & read past topics. That tired / Lame thinking has been used already - If you want to be be a serious part of the debate - learn that real hunters (Residents) mastered & use those skills all the time & the vast majorty do thank landowners & appreciate them & try to develop relationships - But most Freelance hunters don't just go the same few places over & over forever :roll: we hunt / scout / go where the best concentrations of birds are & spend lots of money on travel & gas & lodging

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joel5898

I don't get your beef ???

But I have been thinking about Canada & why more from here (USA) don't go up there ??? & it finally dawned on me - I Bet most of the people that come to ND to hunt have had DWI's or DUI's (or other infractions with the Law - considered Felonies up there) & CAN"T GO TO CANADA & hunt ??? --- But we sure want those people to come here & spend money & filling our bars, huh ??? :roll: :eyeroll:


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

1) I have come to realize that : NIMBY pretty much says it all for QUITE A FEW on this site.

2) Here we ago again FETCH. Let's repeat ourself. All NRs get lumped together as rich bastards that have no repect for ND game laws and limits, etc... talk about tiring. Now MOST are *drunken* rich bastards with no repect for ND game laws and limits.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Did anyone else have the same problem following Fletchings last post as I did.
Talk about incoherent babble, take the marbles out of you mouth for the love of God.

Now, getting back to the topic. Kyle Blanchfield is one of the people in this world that I have an enormous amount of respect for when it comes to the outdoors, right up there with Tony Dean, my grandfather, and my dad.
Kyle may not agree with you all the time and you may disagree frequently him, but he fights for what he believes is right and he does so with out calling names and belittling others, Fletching maybe you should take some notes. 
I know I throw a few zingers at others once in a while and that is an area where I could learn something from Mr. Blanchfield.

As far as Kyle's quotes in the article, I need to ask a question.

As a US citizen, doesn't Kyle have the right to speak his own mind and fight for his own economic interests.......... yeah, I thought so

I agree with erica also, I haven't ever seen an overcrowding problem in our area as there are so many places to hunt and so much waterfowl.

cootkiller


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## mnhunter2003 (Apr 22, 2003)

Hey, I see fetch is now no longer a moderator: At first I thought, great I won't be afraid to post then I see Erica post a very nice first post and the great "member" fetch blasts her:
I have truly tried to find good info here, I check it daily to see what is worth arguing about today but with guys (the minority) who frequent this site who are obviously educated, doing nothing but making us average joe hunter/fisherman feel intimidated:
Chris you are the Web master and I think you have a great possibility of success but the real shame is you have some on the site who are scaring off everyone else. 
I enjoy seeing that the web master participates in the forum (a rarity on other boards), I enjoy seeing people sharing info, but really I check this more to learn good ways of insulting people. 
I wish you all knew me because I hunt/fish 330 days a year< I hope to make it in the outdoor world someday, but man, with that being a goal I hate to be too hateful and mean to everyone who has an opinion different then mine.
I know I am not making a lot of sense but as I have said in every one of my posts I see potential in this site, especially as a site for the younger generation of hunters and I see 5 backwards steps for each forward: Just say they are observations from an observer.
Thanks Guys


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Hey MNhunter2003,

I appreciate the feedback, and I like to take every opinion into consideration, especially on the site.

I guess there's dozens of forums on the site, this just happens to be the hot topics. Well, like you said....the topics in here can get pretty HOT! There can be a lot of emotions stirred up at times, I guess that's what happens when important issues get threatened...even to grown men. 

With that being said, you will find plenty of hunting/fishing talk going on outside the hot topics forum. Debating issues isn't for everone.

But I will agree with you in some respects on Erica. Although I don't really agree on everything she's said, I don't really know her or really her side....just one paragraph of thoughts. I hope she can clarify this to continue her thoughts, and that agreeable or not, they are allowed as her opinion.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

OooooOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooo afraid of little old me - I'll send ya a PM that has my picture in it if you ask nice & it includes my world famous motto

I am not going to waste a lot of words trying to re-explain stuff agin for the sake of arguement :roll:

But coot my last message has some significant (subliminal) content --- You have to watch for that from me - I'll either wack ya between the eyes with a 2X4 or plant a seed & maybe even fertilize & water it for some :lol:


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

> 1) I have come to realize that : NIMBY pretty much says it all for QUITE A FEW on this site.
> 
> 2) Here we ago again FETCH. Let's repeat ourself. All NRs get lumped together as rich bastards that have no repect for ND game laws and limits, etc... talk about tiring. Now MOST are drunken rich bastards with no repect for ND game laws and limits.


1)Whats a NIMBY ??? Is that a insult - Be careful I can now complain to the Moderator too.

2) I bet there is more truth to that than you imagine - Canada is so much better & unspoiled than all of the USA - & with the exchange rate a person is either nutz or restricted to not go there - What is so upsetting about that - It was a free tip from or true expert who has been there done that (especially in ND) :wink:

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Hey Coot write a book on all your regional heros & see how well it sells :roll:

I have this *Feeling* that something is about to happen that will give your buddies more to think about -

Say how much barter is there in commercial waterfowling ??? & are there rules to follow as far as IRS etc. ??? Now that the commercial side has rules they can be enhanced every Legislative session you know -

Coot do you have financial interest in the cove resturant ??? If so you should be honest & say so - It would explain your angle on your thoughts.

We have legal rights to ask questions & have opinions too don't we ??? & to protect what has been a special way of life - up here as hunters ??? & many of us feel obligated to try & tell the truth & bring out all sides to things (If we choose to) - so whats your point ???

I don't see much new in all this only a few trying to see if they can now make folks dizzier with there SPIN on things :roll:

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> Hey, I see fetch is now no longer a moderator: At first I thought, great I won't be afraid to post then I see Erica post a very nice first post and the great "member" fetch blasts her:
> I have truly tried to find good info here, I check it daily to see what is worth arguing about today but with guys (the minority) who frequent this site who are obviously educated, doing nothing but making us average joe hunter/fisherman feel intimidated:
> Chris you are the Web master and I think you have a great possibility of success but the real shame is you have some on the site who are scaring off everyone else.
> I enjoy seeing that the web master participates in the forum (a rarity on other boards), I enjoy seeing people sharing info, but really I check this more to learn good ways of insulting people.
> ...


"nice post"......... right :roll:

what are you scared of ??? Boo !!!

??? Man talk about syco babble :roll: :lol: Grow up & come back when your a man


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

I have to disagree slightly with what people have claimed as little or no pressure in the Devils Lake region. I grew up in the northern end of the lake region. I know a lot of the landowners up there, and my father is a landowner in the lake region. I have seen a lot of pressure, and it has been getting worse every year. I still can find a place to hunt, since I still have ties to the area through my parents that still live there. I run into a lot of hunters up there. Being able to go out and shoot a limit of birds is not all hunting is about. I can go out and shoot a limit, but if I have to deal with people constantly while I am out hunting, my enjoyment goes down dramatically. I go out there to get away from people and the hectic pace of everyday life, not have to compete with people by getting to the favorite slough or field by 3 in the morning to beat the other 6 vehicles that were scouting the night before. To me this ruins the enjoyment out of hunting.


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## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

Amen Muzzy. I can have a great day of hunting, even if I come home empty handed. All it takes is some seclusion, watching the world come alive and the chance to work some birds.

Now, a day with a limit of birds can be an awful experience if:

-- you can't sleep the night before because you are worried about someone else taking your spot

--you get into an argument with another party over who was there first

--some idiot sets up too close and skybusts your swinging birds

--your trailer tire wears a hole in your new fiberglass layout boat (different story :roll: )


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

I will leave the personal insults to MRN and a few others.

NIMBY

*N* - not
*I * - in
*M* - my
*B* - back 
*Y* - yard

NIMBY is a simple gut reaction people have to change (whether it is a positive or negative change does not often matter).


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

No Fletching the only interest I have in the Cove is that I bartend there and hang out after hunting or fishing.

I still disagree on the crowding issue in my area, I just don't see it.

Reminder: Take a Kid Fishing Day is this saturday leaving from woodland resort, no charge.
I can't wait, I love taking those little guys out, it rekindles my own love of the outdoors to see the joy in their eyes when they pull in ANY type of fish.

cootkiller


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

I agree with Muzzy and Quack. If there is, overall, very little pressure in the DL region, then for the last 3-4 years I've managed to pick every busy place and every busy time. The currently proposed plan leaves undressed many pressure areas and ignores the 1000 lb. gorilla sitting in the middle of the room.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Well Danny boy,
Winston already told you you could come hunting with me. There is no pressure by our place and we have about 3500 acres of posted heaven to hunt on, alls you have to do is ask.

cootkiller


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

The current plan obviously addresses the direct concerns of the Jamestown based Sportsman's Alliance and their main hunting playground. Those with the loudest drum get ....

DL Region *ignored*. Frost and Blanchard have no equals in power on the hunting hospitality industry issues.

Valley City - Lidgerwood (old zone 2) region now *abandoned*. While this area is not in the "hot zone" it gets a good share of resident pressure (I would guess 1/3 of NDs live in or real near this area) and nonresident pressure (damn close to MN) on what remaining wetland systems are left in this area.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

CK, I very much appreciate the offer. For the last many years, I start out in your area with some really good friends. Maybe W and I can find a time later in the year to join you. If we don't get hooked up for a hunt, maybe at least a beer. Raefel have Amber?

PH, you are correct about other unaddressed areas and why. The two special zones being considered also happen to be fairly close to Bismarck, where some that are both influencial in these issues and active in hunting do the bulk of their hunting. There is some data to support special consideration for these two areas, but the other areas, out of sight out of mind.......


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

I think cootkiller is looking for a raise.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

I would agree if it wasn't for the fact that Kyle isn't my boss out there and doesn't have any say in my wages. He leases The Cove and Gander's Pub to someone else.

cootkiller


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

~CK ~


> There is no pressure by our place and we have about 3500 acres of posted heaven to hunt on, alls you have to do is ask.


Now is that open to everyone, The offer about asking to hunt your posted land or is that just aimed tword Dan?

Mav...


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

That depends,
Do you also work in the same office as my sister and shoot on my brother-in-laws trap team.

Or--

Have you ever tried to contact myself, my dad, my brother. Ever tried to talk to us when you weren't hunting at the time. 
See I am big on people having respect for the farmers and creating positive relations with landowners.
And if you say that you don't have the time then you don't deserve the privlege. Case closed.

cootkiller


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

CK, Who's your brother-in-law?


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Ask Dan Buiede,
He did his homework and found out who I am, if he wants to tell you, it is fine with me.

cootkiller


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

~CK~If your sister works outdoors then maybe but as for me, I don't work in any office, so I'm saying no to both answers? Seeing as most of the people on my team are still in college. I guess I don't shoot on the same team? Tonight is going to be my first night shooting? ( a little busy the last week)

Growing up Half in Fargo and Half in Gackle ND, due to the choice of my father and his love for hunting we have always had a great repore with all the farmers in the area. Especially after we bought a house, restored it with all arm grease and the sweat off our bodies we could handle but then came Sheldon Schlect, and ran our repore to the ground. He can afford to buy peoples land with other peoples moneyAnyways you keep bragging about how you have this land posted up, and you sound proud of it? Why? because you don't have the pressure that has over taken the area my family has help re-establish for over 25 years! And for what? For alll the farmers to lease all the land from 10 miles west of streeter to 10 miles east of gackle. Over 150,000 acres. So after all this rolling infront of my eyes as a kid growing up, helping milk cows or helping to put in foundations on farms for new houses or helping them remodel homes, to exterminating goffers on their land so cattle stop breaking legs, to feeding their cats..... or bringing them fruit baskets @ huge turkeys for christmas or thanksgiving (for letting us hunt their land)....after awhile it becomes useless, because we don't make the money other NR do? . If you don't believe me then the next time you are in the area stop by the local bar aka Danni's Place and ask the bartender if he's ever herd of the "Goose Natzi" and see what they have to say about him or us. We are the a huge part of the reason why it hasn't become a ghost town yet.

I may sound a little bitter well I am!!! All the hard work we did as a family was over looked to a dollar bill!!
It just sounds like you are saying the same thing as some of the other famers! 
*I've got all this land!! But you can't hunt it?*



> Case Closed


 what does that mean "No" just like the rest? 
or your way of saying don't ask?

Mav...


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Yes you do sound bitter.

I am sorry that EVERY farmer around gackle sold out. However, that is not how it is in every corner of the state.
We let many people hunt on our land with and without us hunting with them.
We post everything up tight so we know who is where and when. Obviously I am going to want to hunt the best field, or is that wrong of me too Mav. Am I suppose to let everyone and there dog hunt on OUR land just becasue you are a little bitter because some SOB from your hometown is greedy.

SORRY, not gonna happen.

Hunting is a privilege, not a right.
Earn that privilege by getting out and doing things for others instead of being selfish.

cootkiller


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

So basically your calling everyone selfish, That doesn't help *YOU*? Who's the selfish one on that statement?

Mav...


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

I was merly trying to broden my self a little and you gave me that kind of an answer? So why would I want to help in any way when you give remarks like that? I don't even know where you land is or what it looks like and you are telling me that since i don't have any repore with you, that I'm lazy and selfish? 
*
I wasn't asking to hunt your land, I was wondering if I"d get that kind of response out of you! A selfish one!!*

Mav....

because I've done all the things you are saying and many more but that still not good enough! *Just not on your land!!*
Nice way to try to get peole to help you ! By contradicting what they are saying to you!

*CASE CLOSED*


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Coot - I was actually giving you a compliment - as hard as that is for me.

It is laughable for you to say your area is not pressured & hard to get on. (maybe the public wetlands around there) & many fields that birds are not using. But I only saw one field SE of Alice last year that had a sign that said ASK before entering. & we did & had a OK shoot -(it was'nt a corn field they were using - but they had to fly over this field to get to the corn fields. But come on that area is leased & posted heavy. & few of the landowners, that are not leasing (or Barter) :roll: rarely say yes. (this proves your not much a hunter in the area if you can't see this ??? But if I had your set up - I'd be happy too - But I would'nt rub peoples noses in it ,or SPIN things to make your buddies & your area, seem normal.

I have never shot what I felt was a roost :roll: Especially for SOB's - But there are lots of bigger waters around you, many now connected. that are excellant for boat hunting. (& could hardly be called duck roosts) :lol: (except by those that profit from field hunting) :-? ---

I had never done it (Boat hunting) until about 7 years ago - a guy from Minn. always came & hunted SOB's with us & told us how he hunted ducks in Minn. ---Finally one year he brought his small duck boat up & we went out in the chain lake - near you (back when it had cover & was more of a marsh) It was a fabulous place to hunt from a boat - I have done more SOB & duck shooting from fields than most - but most of my duck shooting otherwise was potholes, either jumping them, or some decoys (never called or owned a call) But after a few times in a boat & putting out a dozen decoys & seeing how calling works & when & when not to call - I was hooked - to have them work your decoys & learn to talk to them, is very cool. & it is perfect for a good duck dog.

Also nice to get away from the competition for fields & scouting & begging to hunt. (NOT ALL) but many landowners are either tired of being asked all the time. Or like you save it for themselves & friends & family, or it's leased - or they just plain don't allow hunting for lots of reasons. Or you can never get ahold of them.

I now have Lots (LOTS) of duck calls & have practiced alot - & am always looking for the perfect duck waters - for boat hunting. Actually since all the high water & fluctuations in water (mostly high) there are not as many good marshes as there were - islands of reeds etc. the right depth of water that ducks like & boats can navigate - so I'm learning to use lots of different kinds of duck boats  - Plus hunt the big waters - there is so much to learn & projects to keep you busy year round working & scouting for the better areas -blinds for & set ups of a duck boat (interior) & wind & weather conditions. Dog training all related to boat hunting - It will take a life time to master. ---I already mastered the SOB thing & got burn't out doing too much of it. So the boat thing has been a new adventure & challange. & in many areas untaped (especially by residents)

I believe ducks are leery of potholes (but love them) especially as the season progresses. The predators near shore have taught them to use (& be more comfortable) in certain parts of waters & when they start freezing they keep moving to new & bigger waters. So ducks react different to a well hidden boat - out away from shore (that I had never realized, or hunted areas like that before.) & around the USA it is a very much proven (traditional way to hunt ducks)

Sure You don't have to - I could limit on ducks everyday, if it were just about shooting ducks. & that is why most ND residents never learn to hunt them this way. Plus there are several ways to shoot ducks that are close to boat hunting - But trust me nothing quite like it & you can get better & better at it. ---Plus overall, the human hassles in it, are so greatly reduced - I don't think I will ever field hunt them again - Guys like you will never be able to control, or stop boat hunters (or charge)

I will admidt going to Canada to hunt SOB's is so fantastic (like ND was 20 - 30 yrs ago) & even better in some areas, it is truely amazing - That to go there & have hassle free SOB hunting has rekindled my love of that again too. 

But to be totally honest - Your area helped turn me sour on SOB hunting & all the BS & SPIN & overcrowding & competition, for the few places that allowed hunters & still you guys want more & more to come to the area to spend money :roll: ---I have hunted all over ND, all the better SOB areas & most of the better duck areas & DL is the worst in ND - But $$$ & politics won't admidt it. :eyeroll:


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Mav,
I was not trying to contradict you or anything that I have said in the pst. I am only trying to relay the message that there are still farmers out there that, with a little communication outside of october and november will gladly let you hunt and there are friendships to be made. I am sorry your area got out of hand, now why not really broaden you horizons and come up our way.

Fetch,
Thank you for the compliment and I try to urge everyone to get kids out into the ourdoors. We can't let this legacy and heritage die.

DL is in my mind the only place to hunt ducks and geese in ND. That is my opinion and I am biased, but still it is my opinion.

You can have the boat and water, I will take the barley fields and hand dug pits. I am not saying your way is bad, just not my choice.

cootkiller


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Coot.
I've been reading the posts here for a while and I have to say that I don't think you know where you stand on the topic of access. Either you and your family let others hunt or you don't! You imply that you are running a guided operation, "communication outside of october and november will gladly let you hunt". Why wouldn't you let someone hunt the next day if they asked permission and no one else was going to be on that land. I for one get tired of guys like you speaking for others. I, like other's here have done the home work, offered help, and have given countless gift certificates and turkeys only to have a guide or wealthy NR buy the land out from under me. You sound like a spoiled kid that won't let others play with his toys.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Thank You Field Hunter!!!! 
That's how it was kind of sounding to me!!

Mav...


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

Amen to field hunter. Cootkiller needs to pick a position and stick with it.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Right on FH!!!!


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## HuntnLab (Jan 24, 2003)

When will or when does Hoven have to make up his mind about the caps and the zones? Before august? I really hope he does the right thing and put a cap up even if its 30k like last year. Something is better than nothing.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

I have never changed my position on this issue. I am wholeheartedly agaisnt caps. I believe that it is the landowners right to say wether or not others hunt on their land. I believe the guides and outfitters have a right to run their business as they see fit. I believe that if you truly want to hunt on a farmers land you will put forth an effort outside of talking to that farmer just during the hunting season. I believe that no one else has the right to tell a landowner what they can do with the land that they and they alone pay taxes on.
Some of you want something for nothing and that is wrong. 
I belive that some of you have done the things I have stated and have still gotten slighted by landowners that used to give you access and that is too bad, but not illegal by any means.
However, it also gives you a chance to meet new landowners, hunt new areas, and establish new friendships.
This issue is a touchy one and though it may seem like I ride the fence I feel very strongly about the above things that I believe.

My family guided the Minnesota Vikings back in the glory days of the late 60's and early 70's but since then no one in my family has owned a guide liscense. That may change this fall. I may acguire one and then our land would be totally off the market. Let's pray that I don't have to do that but hard times bring about hard decision.

cootkiller


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Cootkiller,

What in the world do caps have to do with telling a landowner what they can and can't do? I'm just curious to hear your opinion. Or are you speaking of them as two seperate issues?


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Just cause they had Dave Osborne  I'd hardly call em glory days :roll: :lol: Did you have Bud Grant there ??? I met Bud Cleaning SOB's once at a dumpster at a Motel


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Don't mean to repeat myself, but caps will probably mean that SOME landowners will probably not be able to charge ALL of what they could have without caps. There are lots of regulations and other governmental directives, certain side-effects of which prevent landowners, rural and urban, from maximizing revenue on real property. Nothing in caps told landowners what they must or mustn't do with their land, who they must or mustn't let use their land or G/O's how to run their business.

Under HPC, 22,000 nonresidents (1,000 fewer than the total number of ALL waterfowlers in Sask) and 34,000 residents. This is not an adequate market for a state where the birds can move on if they choose or can't find rest?

While there is a hint of "landowners rights" in these debates, one could look at many, many regulations in that vein, and I think some of the commercial folks, primarily in the DL region, did a heck of a job early-on to push and promote that angle of the debate to broaden their support and create a battle-cry they knew would resonate with some legislators and other folks that would otherwise not have gotten involved. Kudos, I guess, to them for finding an angle that helped them succeed on the waterfowl issue, but HPC had nothing to do with many of the "landowner rights" concerns that were frequently offered as reasons against caps. SOME money, probably. Mandated access or the inability to generate money from hunting access, no.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

I wasn't calling them the glory days because bud grant and dave osborne were there. I was calling them the glory days becasue my family owned the fabulous hunting forty and I hear all the stories of how unbelievable the hunting was.

In my last post I wasn't trying to group those issues together. I was asked about where I stood and I was trying to explain all of my views.

cootkiller

P.S. Last day of school baby, meet me at the cove for some amber bock and good cheer. :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

What in the world does caps have to do with a landowners right to say who will hunt on his land?? That is a completely assinine statement. No one here is advocating that you should not have a right to say who hunts on your land. What has been said is that a reasonable level has to be found to maintain a quality hunting experiance. While the issues may be third cousins, they are not siblings. What you are saying is that ANY restricitions on numbers is an infringment on your rights to do business. What a joke. No one is saying you cant charge someone a thousand bucks a day to come onto your land. You just have to find someone foolish enough to do it. Why is it that you think we have to sacrifice the resource to provide guides and outfitters with a steady supply of customers?

The real issue here is that the numbers of hunters has risen to the point of diminishing the quality of the experiance. Why in the world is it wrong to fight to maintian it? I just cant understand it. And hey, I have an interest in a B&B in the state to our south with a real cap in place. It would do wonders for my mothers business if they would throw the doors wide. But god help them if they ever do.

Sacrificing your culture and heritage on the alter of the dollar is suicide, and I think some of these areas will learn that the hard way.

What are you doing with your summer Coot?


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

tsodak,
Again, I am not grouping landowner rights and caps. I was stating my position on different issues as I was asked to do. However since you brought it up, I will attempt to explain something for the 10,000th time.

Putting caps on nonresidents will not magically open up access like so many think it will.
If caps would have been put into place, in fact, many residents would have lost access due to landowner backlash. I am not condoning this nor am I saying it is right. I am not saying it is wrong either. Just a matter of fact as to what would have happened.

That is how landowner rights and caps are related.

This summer I will be bartending, scouting for my fiances moose, fishing, doing wedding plans, and trying to break the amber bocks drank in a sitting record. Not necessarily in that order. Many nights will be spent at the private shooting range and barbegueing will also be thrown into the mix.

Tonite, the cove, celebrate the end of the school year with cootkiller and friends.

cootkiller


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

But again and again you are saying it is an access issue. This is not all about access to private land. It is about the quality of the experiance. that means crowding on public AND private land. Leasing by G/O. Fewer birds in an area because of pressure. It is way to simple to cut this down to access to private lands. That is what the G/O did to win this thing.

Answer me this. Would any of this have been an issue if a cap had been emplaced at 12000 back when we had 7000 NR coming???? Heck no. All this "Economic Developement" garbage would have never become an issue, and we would not hear about "destroying the income potential of rural ND". Because when you shake it all out, it is such an infintisimal part of the whole equation it is a joke, and yet it is one of those perks that cause people to live where they do. Are people leaving rural SD because they cant bring in a solid stream of customers from beginning to end? Heck no.

Again, this is NOT AN ACCESS ISSUE!!!!! Allowing it to be corrupted into suh was what really defeated the entire bill in the legislature.


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Tsodak,

If not an access issue, and you claim the G\O's aren't to be guaranteed a living off of a supposed public resource. Then what gives you the right to be given a supposed quality experience? None of the above are guraranteed under any law at all. The only thing we have in America is the right to a free economic society. While I do not always agree with the paying to hunt, it is everyone's right to pay and to accept a payment. If you cannot or refuse to do so then that is also your right.

FREE ECONOMICS is why this great country was founded and why we are the greatest country in the world.

Econ


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

econ, where in the frog eyed heck do you see a free economy? Ever signed up for the farm program? The paper work and restrictions are knee deep. Just today there was a hot discussion about zoneing in my county. Zoneing won. Every industry I can think of is regulated, fed and state, sometimes county, city and township too. Wildlife is not a "supposed" public resource. It is already governed in the law. Pop too many ducks, call a Federal warden and see what happens. There is your guarentee!
I do not care if someone charges hunters, if they wish to pay, but it is unaccecptable for a small group of people to flood out the rest of us by saturating the market with no caps, forcing hunters to their commercial business. The citizens of North Dakota are under no statute obligation to provide you customers. Actually free economics is not what founded this great country. We got it pretty cheap from the original owners, talk about "landowner rights".


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

~CK~
That's everything I was talking about when I first questioned your statement about people hunting your land. It all sounds like the Sheldon issue! You getting your guiding liscense,that'll make 451 registered guides! Now I'll let you know that I am a college student finishing an Arch. degree. Right now, I can't afford to pay any more than I am for gas and shells or even hotel rooms in small towns, meals ect. and you as a teacher, are going to make it harder for people like myself to be apart of our heritage. Something that I have been a part of my whole life. I understand that it's your land and you can do what ever you want with it, but what I don't understand is why people don't care about something, we as a state voted in to our heritage. We just want to commercialize our natural resources. Make as much money off of it as you can. No matter what the sercumstance.

What would you say if some of your students came to you and asked to hunt your land? Or better yet what would you say if they started telling you that they can't afford to hunt. That's how people become drug addicts or alcoholics. They lose interest in their hobbies, become lazy and give up!

So do you turn down the people who are paying your wages!!!Because that would be me!!Legally you can! Almost hypocritical. In a way it could be looked as me paying to hunt your land!

Mav....


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

CK
If I have someone that is willing to pay $12000 to your family for exclusive rights to hunt your families land? Would your family take IT?

Here are the stipulations. No one without authorization can hunt for any animal or bird during the upland and waterfowl season. Ask them what they think and let me know.


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## ACE (Apr 12, 2003)

Holy duck wings, Coot, that's a lot of cash!!! :beer:

If CK and his family should decide to decline, the integrity portrayed would be worth much praise (especially after taking much grief!).
If the family does except, that's their prerogative (and the farmland that has become overtaken by water will generate more then waterfowl and good times).
Is there anyone on this board (that can honestly admit) who wouldn't be just a little bit tempted to accept such an offer?

Be careful, Coot. 
Something about the offer smells fishy. 
Good luck with your decision. :thumb:


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## polaris583 (May 25, 2003)

No that anyone will care about my opinion but I am a young man from around the DL area and while I have respect for Kyle Blanchfield and what he does too keep food in the mouths of his family I do believe that too some extent hunting in North Dakota is becoming very commercialized and while it doesn't bother me all that much because I am not an avid hunter of ducks and geese I do see some problem in it if it gets out of control. I have been reading the papers for the last few months and even heard arguments at local bars in town here and there and while many of my friends are farmers I do believe that hunting is getting crowded around our area but only in public access areas where there isn't a posted sign to be found. The one thing that all of my friends say is that you only have to ask them and they will let you hunt on their land. Its just like cootkiller says hunter/landowner relations could be a lot better if we MEN (and women) would just act like grownups and ask a farmer to hunt you would be suprised at how many farmers would say yes. Sorry if my facts aren't correct but that is my personal opinion and that is what I have seen around DL for the most part. Thank you for your time.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

polaris 583-welcome aboard. Good to have another view from DL. I have always been curious what leasing runs up there. Do you know how much $$$$$ and how it works? Ron popped an interesting number, and I'm sure that hunting land in his old stomping grounds is going pretty high what with Texicans involved up to their armpits in commercial ND hunting. What do the leases run at DL, Rugby, Cando, Lakota, or for that matter Mott, Regent, Litton, Streeter? Somebody show us the money.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

For whoever offered the cash,
Thanks but no thanks.
See, if you have read my posts here and on FBO, I am not about to become an outdoors pimp.
I enjoy hunting and fishing and enjoy it even more when I get to do so with others from all walks of life.
To me, selling out would prohibit me from continueing to enjoy what I do now. My father and brother might enjoy the extra income but that is not how we do things.
Money does not buy happiness but friends in the field hunting birds, that is pure bliss. :lol:

cootkiller


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## polaris583 (May 25, 2003)

Cootkiller now thats funny..... Outdoor Pimp.... must have thought that one up while bartending at the cove


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