# The 257Wby Mag - What a Cartridge



## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

The 257Wby is one of the most versatile cartridges if Big Heavy Dangerous game are left out of the mix. Even though the 257Wby has killed everything from Cape buffalo to Grizzly bear which is not the best choice of cartridge on these animals. Now the 100gr TSX and the TTSX along with other premium bullets have made the 257Wby very versatile if you are considering every thing but heavy dangerous game. But make no mistake, with these monolithic bullets the 257Wby can and has dropped dangerous game in their tracks.

One thing for sure there is no factory production cartridge that shoots flatter than the 257Wby mag. So if I am talking about most hunting except for Big Dangerous game I say the 257Wby is one of the most versatile. Having hunted Big Dangerous game I would say the 257wby using premium bullets like the TSX, I would not be afraid of dangerous game being in the area where I was hunting lesser game.

When you consider that my 100gr TTSX load is well over 3000fps at 200yds which is the limit for over 90% of hunters and the distance they take most game they shoot, then the results when using a 257Wby are simply phenomenal when game is dispatched. The monolithic bullet has elevated the 257Wby to even higher highs than it already occupies. It allows for close shots at these velocities without fear of the bullet coming apart and has enough velocity for these to open up at long range.

When I am moving the TSX or TTSX at 3624fps out of my Mark V 257Wby, it becomes even more versatile and at a greater level than Roy imagined. I don't think any one of my friends who use the 257Wby for years could have visualized the 257Wby being raised to a higher level than it had already obtained, but the TSX and TTSX have added to it's already fantastic potential. There was a reason Roy liked it the best of all his cartridges even over the 270Wby which was his first and the 300wby that is so popular.

I have dropped Black Bear, Mule Deer, Whitetail deer, Russian Boar, and Coyote with the 257Wby and fixing to own my third 257Wby, the previous two, a Vanguard and a Mark V Synthetic. It truly stands alone in the quarter bore and is a contender even among the bigger bore.


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## Bernie P. (Sep 25, 2008)

It's a really nice cartridge but I can't say as I see it's worth burning 20% more powder to gain a 5% increase in performance over the 25-06.The trajectory advantage is slim and WAY out beyond where most can shoot well under field conditions.


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Bernie P. said:


> It's a really nice cartridge but I can't say as I see it's worth burning 20% more powder to gain a 5% increase in performance over the 25-06.The trajectory advantage is slim and WAY out beyond where most can shoot well under field conditions.


If you ever owned one (and by the way you responded indicates you have not) you would see the advantage. I own a 25-06 Ruger MK II standard and a Remington CDL and they are not even in the same ball park on velocity, energy nor accuracy and I do make long shots with consistent results and that is why I use the 257Wby.

I disagree with you on every point and do so because of the experience which allows me to know that the 257Wby is more than worth it. If physics has any meaning at all and it does considering it is an empirically measurable quantity as apposed to your 5% not taking into account the difference in your rifle and mine performance wise, the 257Wby is in a class of it's own.

Show me your chrony results and targets of your 25-06 as I have in the past posted on this forum concerning velocities and accuracy of a Mark V 257Wby and maybe, just maybe you might have a small point to argue. Don't take this personal, I just absolutely disagree with your conclusions.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I understand where Bernie's coming from. With everything comes a price, and adding velocity over 3000 fps with deer hunting bullets is pretty costly. :wink:

I doubt there are many here more fond of 1/4" bullets than I am. I am absolutely fascinated by them, and I love the .25/06. I am convinced most people could hunt their entire life with only that cartridge. 25 caliber bullets just seem to kill better than they should, and they do it with almost varmint cartridge recoil...almost. It's that physics thing you guys mentioned. :wink:

I can't comment much on the Weatherby versus the Remington because I haven't wrung mine out yet. Mine is a custom version of a sendero rifle so it will see very limited use, but initial load develpment shows 3200 fps with 120 grain Partitions is easy and 3300 should be attainable, and a bullet with that sectional density coupled with it's BC should prove to be a force to be wreckoned with at that starting velocity. My experience would indicate about a 10% advantage over my .25/06, and I think it's safe to say very few Wby owners wish to engage in a conversation about powder consumption. :wink:

My thought process was a factory Remington sendero in .25/06 would be a great long range deer rifle in situations where weight was not an issue. But when I realized the cost of new rifles these days I quickly noticed I could have my 'smith turn my 7mmRUM into a switch-barrel for just a little more cash, so it was an easy decision. And since I was making my own I was no longer bound by what Remington marketing experts thought would sell, so I picked the WBY so I had options. I can load it like a .25/06 if I want, but still push it to the limits when I want to.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I don't want to steal the thunder, so the simple answers are "no" and "no".

People are sometimes easily misled about recoil. Although actual recoil is all but impossible for almost _anyone_ to compute, felt recoil info is readily available. Even more simple than that is to use energy tables, because simply stated, recoil is equal to the bullet's energy. That's somewhat over simplifying, but since for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, a force can't push on a bullet without pushing on the gun exactly the same amount.

Some numbers to compare:

My favorite .30/06 load is a 165 grain Partition @ 3000fps. Which, coincidentally is virtually the exact load Beartooth uses also. That develops approximately 3300 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle, and will recoil accordingly. In comparison, my 120 gr Wby load and Beartooth's 100 gr Wby load generate approximately 2900 and 3000 ft. lbs. respectively. Compare that further with my favorite .25/06 antelope load which generates just under 2500 ft. lbs. (100 gr ballistic tip at just over 3300 fps) and you can see there's nothing brutal about a .257 Wby.

25 caliber rifles burn a lot of powder and make a lot of noise, but they are VERY comfortable to shoot. :wink:


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Csquared said:


> I understand where Bernie's coming from. With everything comes a price, and adding velocity over 3000 fps with deer hunting bullets is pretty costly. :wink:
> 
> I doubt there are many here more fond of 1/4" bullets than I am. I am absolutely fascinated by them, and I love the .25/06. I am convinced most people could hunt their entire life with only that cartridge. 25 caliber bullets just seem to kill better than they should, and they do it with almost varmint cartridge recoil...almost. It's that physics thing you guys mentioned. :wink:
> 
> ...


Out standing post and put in very understandable concepts. Thanks!! Yes I know what Bernie was leaning toward and I should have said how much I have used the 25-06 through the years and the deer I have killed with it. I have come also over the years to appreciate the 257Wby that kills better than it should and the 257Wby does it in spades. I also think it is cool what you did with the Remington and built you a 257Wby and bet it is a tack driver. My Accumark is a tack diver. I could hunt the rest of my life and only on specific occasions as when I was in Tanzania this last August and September was I carrying another rifle along with the 257Wby and that was my Custom 375Wby.


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

ccccrnr said:


> Isn't the .257 Wby the highest recoiling of the .257's? :sniper:
> 
> And wouldn't this hurt accurcy because it is harder to hold the Wby perfectly still over other .25-.257's when field shooting?


Recoil is of little consequence with the 257Wby considering the return you get and at worse it is like a 270win with a 130 bullet.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> Isn't the .257 Wby the highest recoiling of the .257's?


I was looking for info on the .257 STW for ccccrnr and stumbled across this. I can't imagine anyone looking for a brown bear with the intent to shoot it with a 100 grain bullet, but that's what it says. The info is from 2005. I wonder if the guy is still alive... 

http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/akforu ... /52339.htm


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

For decades I've been fascinated with the 257 WM and have coveted one without remorse. I just got a promotion with a big raise, so maybe I'll do my part to help our struggling economy and buy a LH Accu Mark...


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Csquared said:


> > Isn't the .257 Wby the highest recoiling of the .257's?
> 
> 
> I was looking for info on the .257 STW for ccccrnr and stumbled across this. I can't imagine anyone looking for a brown bear with the intent to shoot it with a 100 grain bullet, but that's what it says. The info is from 2005. I wonder if the guy is still alive...
> ...


Roy Weatherby killed a Cape Buffalo with a 100gr bullet, one shot the cape fell dead just to prove it could be done. A lot of Brown bears have been dispatched by the 257Wby for years after it came out in the 40's long before all the hot magnums of today and it was very effective and no one using one was ever reported to have been mauled by a Brown. Most were quick kills. What a lot of people don't understand about a 100gr bullet moving over 3600fps is that it is a devastating killer. I killed a 420pound Russian bore with a 257wby and the bullet went just in front of the right rear ham and exited out the left shoulder at 55yds and the big boy fell right in his tracks. What was so amazing was the damage to vital organs that the bullet did not even pass through but still destroyed and the exit hole was the size of a golf ball. Now that was all done without the TSX's, GS, TBBC, A-Frame premium bullets of today which are really made for those velocities. We have been told for three decades that you need a big bullet to get the job done on big game but Roy new in the 40's that was not true and some of us who have used it for years know that the 100gr bullet especially of today like the TSX can do the job even better. Of course if you listen to the wisdom of today you need a 338-378Wby but the Brown is killed every year with the 30-06 more than any other single cartridge.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Not that it matters, but I thought Roy Weatherby used a 120 gr Partition to kill his cape buffalo. I don't remember where I read it, but if I find it I'll post it here. But this attached link says we're both wrong. 

http://www.africanconservation.org/dcfo ... 5/343.html



> He insisted that a light bullet at hyper-velocity "blew up" inside the animal - literally fragmented like a hand grenade - and that animals would drop on the spot as if hit by lightning, even if the bullet did not hit the vitals.


I didn't mean to infer one _couldn't_ kill a 2000 pound brown bear with a 100 grain bullet. I read a story once about a guy who survived somewhere with only a 22LR to provide food, and he killed critters up to and including elk with it. My concern with the guy above, more than his decision, was his thought process. Even though it would appear money was not an issue he was having a rifle built based on a concept that I don't believe has been supported publicly since the dust had settled from the Korean war. Every bullet manufacturer I can think of has spent a considerable portion of their worth on research and development to learn how to make a bullet that does exactly opposite of what Roy Weatherby professed, and *NOT* blow up!

I went back to the link in my last post and read some of the responses to the guy's original question. Regardless of your opinion on the issue, it's some pretty entertaining reading. :lol:

If I had to I'm pretty sure I could start a fire with a stick. But if I got a year to plan it...I'll take some matches! :wink:

:beer:


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## Bernie P. (Sep 25, 2008)

I wasn't looking to start a great debate on one vs another or anything.In my experience that's usually an exercise in futility.I have no experience with the Weby and have only shot a friends 25-06.I like both but to my way of thinking the 06 would more sensibly fit my needs.YMMV.Good luck!


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

This has at least been some entertaining stuff. :beer:


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

If we all agreed Baskin Robbins would only have one flavor !!!

I normally subscribe to the smaller than the norm bullet at higher velocity, hence my preference for the .25's over the more common .27, .28 and .30's for deer. But when we're talking about a critter that could outweigh me by more than 3/4 of a ton, could kill me with one swipe of it's paw, and most likely eat me before they can find my body........well before I pick a fight with it I want to have a gun that hurts when I shoot it !!!!! 

You can probably tell there aren't any plans for a big bear hunt in my immediate future. :wink:


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## beartooth (Feb 18, 2007)

Csquared said:


> If we all agreed Baskin Robbins would only have one flavor !!!
> 
> I normally subscribe to the smaller than the norm bullet at higher velocity, hence my preference for the .25's over the more common .27, .28 and .30's for deer. But when we're talking about a critter that could outweigh me by more than 3/4 of a ton, could kill me with one swipe of it's paw, and most likely eat me before they can find my body........well before I pick a fight with it I want to have a gun that hurts when I shoot it !!!!!
> 
> You can probably tell there aren't any plans for a big bear hunt in my immediate future. :wink:


Now that is to funny and yes that is how he kills with his big paws. My brother dropped one with a 30-06 and 165gr A-Frame and it did it's job. Now I have not killed a Grizzly or hunted one but have been charge by a female Lion in Tanzania while hunting impala and dropped her at 20yds coming at me with my 30-06 using a 165gr TBBC. I know what a dangerous animal can do. I have dropped a 450 pound Russian Boar with a 100gr TSX and it exited and the big boy dropped to the ground. I am only speaking out of what I have seen and I believe the 257Wby kills much bigger than most think it is capable of doing.

This has been and interesting exercise in having this discussion concerning the 257Wby and I believe you are right when you said, "If we all agreed Baskin Robbins would only have one flavor !!!" I do try to speak from field experience to give some justification for my conclusions.


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