# This PC crap is going way too far...



## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

http://www.startribune.com/503/story/1510113.html

*Sioux nickname could be dropped in 3 years unless tribes OK it*
Associated Press
Last update: October 26, 2007 - 11:56 AM

GRAND FORKS, N.D. - The state Board of Higher Education settled a lawsuit with the NCAA over the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux nickname, giving the school three years to get tribal approval to keep it.

The board voted unanimously Friday to approve the settlement after a closed-door briefing from Attorney General Wayne Stenehjem. If the school does not get approval from the Spirit Lake Sioux and Standing Rock Sioux tribes by Nov. 30, 2010, it will have to change to a new name and logo.

"The settlement confirms that the Sioux people and no one else should decide whether and how their name should be used,'' Bernard Franklin, an NCAA senior vice president, said in a statement.

The NCAA in 2005 banned the use of the nickname in postseason play, labeling it hostile and abusive. UND sued to challenge the ban last year and got a temporary order allowing the use of the nickname and logo while the case moved through court.

Eighteen schools originally were on a 2005 list of NCAA offenders using offensive American Indian nicknames and logos. A number of schools made changes while some won appeals with support from area tribes.

"I think it's important to remember that without this lawsuit, we would have been immediately subjected to the NCAA restrictions,'' Stenehjem said. "We had no options but to proceed to court.''

North Dakota tribal officials have said the three-year period allowed in the settlement puts undue pressure on them. Standing Rock Chairman Ron His Horse is Thunder and Devils Lake Sioux Chairwoman Myra Pearson could not immediately be reached Friday for comment.

"We are not going to be fighting this in 10 years, in 20 years, in 30 years,'' Stenehjem said. "This is an issue that needs to be resolved, needs to be concluded.''

If approval of the nickname is withdrawn later from either tribe, the waiver also will be withdrawn, the agreement states.

The North Dakota lawsuit cost an estimated $2 million in legal fees and services. Stenehjem said it was paid with private donations.

If the nickname is changed, UND would have to remove most of its Indian imagery on its Grand Forks campus. It could keep historical items and items embedded in the architecture, under the agreement.

Officials have estimated UND's Ralph Engelstad Arena has at least 3,000 Fighting Sioux logos, including a 10-foot sketch of an Indian head embedded in the granite floor.

The settlement includes a statement by the NCAA calling UND is a "national leader in offering educational programs to Native Americans.''

Board of Higher Education President John Q. Paulsen said he was pleased by the recognition.

"The University of North Dakota deserves to have its honor restored in terms of its long-standing commitment to programs for Native American students,'' Paulsen said.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

Politicaly correct is bringing the country down the **** tube. Been happening for awhile I really don't even want to get started on it so I'll leave it there. I love shows like Family Guy that ignore pc. Probably why it's so popular.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Some people from the area can you confirm this....

I heard that if they change the schools name from the Souix they will lose the hockey arena? Is this true?

Because I heard that the person who donated all the money for the arena wanted it this way.

Could someone please tell me if this is true or an urban legend.

Thanks


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

The tribes and the NCAA don't agree. So you have two choices. Make the change or figure out how to get them to approve of it. I believe UND started out as the Flickertails when first conceived.

As for the Arena. Engelstad said all funds would be cut if the name were changed. I am guessing the UND Foundation is figuring out a way to secure other funds if the name changes. I would just guess there won't be anymore payouts to the college from the Engelstad family if the name changes.

Even though Engelstad is dead, I believe his "clause" in the donation still stands.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Chuck Smith said:


> Some people from the area can you confirm this....
> 
> I heard that if they change the schools name from the Souix they will lose the hockey arena? Is this true?
> 
> ...


It's a legend, the question has been asked several times by the media and each time they explain that it is untrue.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

live2hunt said:


> The tribes and the NCAA don't agree. So you have two choices. Make the change or figure out how to get them to approve of it.


Actually, it is a majority of the tribal leaders, not necessarily a majority of the tribal members. However due to the amount of money spent on this so far and the fact that a few will never let the controversy end without the change I believe it is in the best interest to change it and move on.

According to the Sports Illustrated survey, 87 percent of American Indians who lived off Indian reservations did not object to Native American mascots or nicknames. Of the Indians who lived on reservations, 67 percent were not bothered by the nicknames, while 33 percent opposed them.

In addition to the survey, those who would like to keep the traditional Native American nicknames give examples of American Indian tribes that have openly embraced schools and teams using their names. At Arapahoe High School in Littleton, Colorado, for example, the Warriors' school gym is named for Anthony Sitting Eagle, an Arapaho leader. Every year on Arapaho Day, tribal members come from the reservation to visit with students and teach Arapaho history and traditions. Tribal leaders have also advised the Warriors on how to make their logo authentic, and even persuaded the school to remove a painting on the gym floor because it was offensive to have students walk over it. Similar close relationships exist between Florida State University and the Seminole tribe, Central Michigan University and the Chippewa tribe and the Arcadia High School Apaches in California, who have a relationship with an American Indian tribe in Arizona.


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## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

I'll bet if UND spent the amount of money on the tribes as they did or will fighting it the tribes would allow it. BRIBE THE TRIBE!


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Mr Smith The University does not own the arena (The Ralph), it is a corporation: Ralph Englestad Arena Inc. The University rents it for $1 a year. I believe it is set up this way becasue it is illegal to give money to public institutions such as UND with stipulations or strings attached. 
Who knows how REA inc is set up??? I geuss funds could be set in a trust of sorts and if they change the name than maybe the arena could be at risk? but this wouldn't be the choice of the school it would be that of REA inc.

TC


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Think of it this way. Even if the stipulations regarding the name change for the facility were in place what are they going to do, let it go unused or tear it down? I think not.

If the Sioux leaders are offended by the use of the name by the University then they should be appauled by the use of the name by many of the tribes members who no longer in any way represent the historical representation of the name. I am offended that they (tribe) feel deserving of the use of the Sioux name when they are just a shadow of tribe that existed 200 years ago. THAT tribe would never feel sorry for itself and ask for handouts.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

I dont see the big deal. (And PC does suck asssss).

Its not derogatory at all. If they called it the fighting caucasions I would have no problem.

Its not like the name is the wussy sioux. The new logo is awesome in my opinion, very tasteful and noble looking (unlike the cleveland indians logo).

I agree, i dont think most sioux people care, the media is whats making the fuss. Free press is a crock of sh*t. Give em an inch, they take a mile.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

barebackjack said:


> I dont see the big deal. (And PC does suck asssss).
> 
> Its not derogatory at all. If they called it the fighting caucasions I would have no problem.
> 
> ...


You aren't understanding their position.....they aren't saying UND is making derogatory statements.....they are saying oponents in sports are doing it and they are tired of it.

You are right.....the logo is awesome.....but do Gopher,Badger and Bison fans treat it with the same respect.Not at the games I've seen..... :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## wirehairman (Oct 31, 2005)

I am of Scandinavian descent, and the Vikings logo/mascot doesn't offend me in the least. Neither do the derogatory comments fans of opponents (i.e Viqueens) get me all worked up.

The PC thing is getting out of hand.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Come on Ken give me a break, is that all you can come up with for an excuse??? So because my name is Jimmy I should be offended at the VCSU Jamestown College games???? Ken a rivalry is a rivalry and yes they are going to say things. Poor excuse Ken, let your liberal mind think up something else.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

My mind is just fine......and I worked with Native Americans for 6 years in a school with 97% Native American students and 75% Native American staff.So G/O I would guess my perspectiove a little different than yours. :eyeroll:


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

The tribes need to decide on whether the name is offensive or if the name is being exploited poorly. I believe there is a difference.

1. If it is offensive, then it is is always offensive. No matter how much money UND gives to the tribe or how many scholarships it gives out, it is still offensive.

2. If they feel it is being exploited, then money or scholarships or whatever can be used to convince the tribes that it is OK to use.

The tribe(s) need to sit down and decide what it is. If they say it is offensive but want something for it, then it really wasn't offensive to begin with. If they feel it is being exploited, then money may solve the problem.

IMHO if the tribes say it is offensive to them, then change the name. If they say they are being exploited poorly, then UND needs to figure out what to cough up to get approval for the name.


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## bradguck (Jun 12, 2007)

live2hunt,

I agree 100% with you.

It is either offensive or it's not. 
If the tribes are genuinely offended, then no amount of money can change their minds. If the tribes are really offended, then there will be no agreement reached.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

The thing I find disturbing about the out-of-court agreement is that at any time in the future the tribes can decide to withdraw their support for the nickname even if they give support now.Why would UND want that being held over their heads.

Just change the name and move on.....in 5 years no one will care.


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## lundq (Feb 21, 2005)

bradguck said:


> live2hunt,
> 
> It is either offensive or it's not.
> If the tribes are genuinely offended, then no amount of money can change their minds. If the tribes are really offended, then there will be no agreement reached.


It's funny though, how a lot of money can make people "not THAT offended"


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## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

Anybody who supports political correctness should be crucified.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

A few days ago I was reading the Jamestown paper and noticed that the Purdue Boilermakers had narrowly beaten the Central Michigan Chippewas in the Motor City bowl. Seems that the Chippewas of that area dont have a problem with the mascot name. Change it to the Roughriders. I dont think Grand Forks Red River would mind sharing the name.


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