# Save a pheasant



## coyotebuster

Everyone thats going pheasant hunting this season remember, save a pheasant shoot a ditch tiger.

MEOW!!


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## omegax

For all you know the "ditch tiger" could be some kid's pet. I don't give a damn how many pheasants they eat; I'm not taking the chance on shooting somebody's pet. Even barn cats serve a purpose.

Are there that few pheasants where you are that you absolutely have to shoot anything that is a threat to them? Have fun shooting hawks and owls.


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## Rick Acker

omegax said:


> For all you know the "ditch tiger" could be some kid's pet. I don't give a damn how many pheasants they eat; I'm not taking the chance on shooting somebody's pet. Even barn cats serve a purpose.
> 
> Are there that few pheasants where you are that you absolutely have to shoot anything that is a threat to them? Have fun shooting hawks and owls.


I totally agree. Start shooting some farmers pet and you can forget ever about hunting his land again. I can't believe all the hawks we saw this weekend. They do a heck of a lot more damage than some putty cat!


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## MSG Rude

Rick Acker said:


> omegax said:
> 
> 
> 
> For all you know the "ditch tiger" could be some kid's pet. I don't give a damn how many pheasants they eat; I'm not taking the chance on shooting somebody's pet. Even barn cats serve a purpose.
> 
> Are there that few pheasants where you are that you absolutely have to shoot anything that is a threat to them? Have fun shooting hawks and owls.
> 
> 
> 
> * I can't believe all the hawks we saw this weekend. *
Click to expand...

I have to second this (I did the bold type and cut some of the other stuff out).

I have never seen so many hawks and falcons n my life in one area!


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## coyote_buster

harvest ditch bears, not ditch tiger, plus, what furbuyer would buy ditch tiger.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

In my opininon they need to do something about all of the Hawks around. I watched them raise heck on a duck slough while laying in the layout in the field. Saw them all over on power poles, etc.


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## Turner

The Hawk numbers have been up for the last couple of years. Imagine that, ducks and pheasant #'s go up= more hawks in the area. Nothing needs to be done about the hawks, they don't kill just to kill, they kill to eat and survive or raise thier young.


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## Burly1

At least the hawks utilize the wounded birds. We found two wounded birds on a walk through a creek at ten o'clock on the opener. Had our dogs not found them, I'll bet a hawk or an owl would have. It's the natural circle of life, and death. I'll take a pass on commenting about domestic cats gone wild.
Burl


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## Leo Porcello

Turner said:


> The Hawk numbers have been up for the last couple of years. Imagine that, ducks and pheasant #'s go up= more hawks in the area. Nothing needs to be done about the hawks, they don't kill just to kill, they kill to eat and survive or raise thier young.


Very True!!

Ditch Tigers however will kill just to kill. Do a search on stray cats and see the studies done. Their impact on killing song birds and such is pretty big actually.


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## taddy1340

> domestic cats gone wild.


Burl,

Is the video coming out soon??? :lol:


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## Burly1

Mike, I really tried, but could come up with absolutely nothing printable, as a reply..........Darn!
Burl


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## kgpcr

I shoot all predators i can with the exception of farm cats. Other than that i shoot away. Shoot Shovel and Shut up. the three S's. We need to protect the birds as best we can.


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## vizslaking

Is it legal to shoot hawks? Hunting the opener last weekend we saw hundreds of them. Burl, check out my new screen name! They fixed it! :beer:


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## Dak

Hawks, owls, falcons, and eagles are all protected.


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## djleye

kgpcr said:


> I shoot all predators i can with the exception of farm cats. Other than that i shoot away. Shoot Shovel and Shut up. the three S's. We need to protect the birds as best we can.


I hope you are talking about the ones that are legal to shoot, not hawks, etc.


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## kgpcr

There are WAY to many hawks. While i would never tell you to shoot a hawk i would shed no tears if some one did. Thats just my opinion. They are very hard on the pheasant population. Why dont we talk about controlling them at all on a dnr level?? Just like the way wolves have gotten out of hand in MN. time to clean them out


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## Dick Monson

Is a $10,000 fine per avian preditor worth it?

The hawk migration is on now, they'll be gone soon. If people ever considered what rodents destroy they would never bust a hawk. The primary one at sloughs are Northern Harriers, white spot on the rump, and they do not take ducks or pheasants, their feet are too weak and designed for mice.

In 43 years of field work farming I have seen game bird chicks taken 3 times by hawks. And thousands of mice and gophers. No one ever mentions that preditors clean the sick, lame and lazy out of the gene pool which improves the breed.


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## Burly1

I watched a Redtailed Hawk take a hen pheasant, about fifty yards away from me. Just seeing an ultimate predator at work was worth lots of pheasants, in my opinion. I have an old pard who watched a Bald Eagle take a pheasant from the roadway, right in front of his slowly moving car. What a sight that must have been! Leave the predator birds alone, besides the obvious legal reasons, cleaning up the dead, sick and wounded is their job!
Burl


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## HUNTNFISHND

kgpcr said:


> There are WAY to many hawks. While i would never tell you to shoot a hawk i would shed no tears if some one did. Thats just my opinion. They are very hard on the pheasant population. Why dont we talk about controlling them at all on a dnr level?? Just like the way wolves have gotten out of hand in MN. time to clean them out


We are crawling with pheasants right now so I don't think the hawks are being too hard on the population!


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## TANATA

Dak said:


> Hawks, owls, falcons, and eagles are all protected.


  Someone should have told me sooner! Just got my owl and eagle mounted!


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## Fallguy

HUNTNFISHND said:


> We are crawling with pheasants right now so I don't think the hawks are being too hard on the population!


Good point. It's nature. It will figure itself out.


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## Turner

Some talk about the increase of raptors in the area and we need to do something about them to "save the pheasants". I see a little irony in this, I started hunting in ND about 18 years ago and when I hunted the SE part of ND for pheasants you could go all weekend and not see another upland bird hunter, resident or NR. And in those years you would have to hunt all day just to get a couple of birds, you didn't hear "My group of 8 limited out by noon" stuff that you hear today. Land owners were a little more apt to grant permission then too, since they were not asked multiple times a day and their roads in front of their house weren't a highway and dumping grounds for trash from inconsiderate hunters. Now that the bird populations are close to their all time high in the 18 years that I have hunted, not only have the raptors increased in numbers I feel there are quite a few band wagon jumpers that are out there with their high $$$ dogs and attitudes that think the farmers owe them permission to hunt. I don't condone it, but I sure can see why some of the land I hunted in the past has gone to lease hunting. Just remember out there, every thing you do will reflect on all us hunters as a whole, I plan on living in ND for many more years and hope to hunt with out paying a fee. Maybe we need two or three harsh winters to thin the wildlife back down, then the raptors/hunters will thin out as well.


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## Dak

There is some truth in that...


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## kgpcr

Turner you are very right. All land owners must be treated with the usmost respect! same goes for thier land! I do shoot all the predators i can but i do not shoot hawks. that was a comment to generate some discussion. In MN Leech lake was in bad shape, they thinned out the commorants and the walleyes are coming back. they too are protected and the feds came in and shot over 3000 of them. I would never break a law with the exception of skunks. they get shot by me all year round when i can. i dont want them to dissapear totaly but they are bad news for a dog and the young pheasants and the eggs as well.


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## ShineRunner

About the predators (Hawks, Owls). A fellow once told me that if there are no predators looking around for game there probably wasn't any. I want shoot a cat near someones home or where I think it might belong to someone, but it better not get to far away from home. The bird predators I leave alone. Feral or free running cats are a nuisance.


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## coyotebuster

I could not agree more on the cat issue. Some people seem to think that all cats are pets, they just dont realize that there is such a thing as a wild cat which I consider no different than a skunk or raccoon.


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## woodpecker

zzzzzzzz


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## CD

I think there should be a season for hawks if only for a week or two, there are way to many of them around. they are definetly not endangered anymore. So why not??


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## always_outdoors

> I think there should be a season for hawks if only for a week or two, there are way to many of them around. they are definetly not endangered anymore. So why not??


You have got to be kidding me?

Hawks, eagles, falcons, and owls were here long before the pheasant EVER was. I like shooting pheasants as much as the next guy, probably even more than most....but COME ON GUYS/GALS. :eyeroll:

We are hunters because we enjoy the outdoors. We are supposed to set the standard for conservation and wildlife. Exterminating every predator so we can have more pheasants???? Does that really sound like good outdoor ethics or fair practices for the preservation of wildlife.

I have seen more pheasants this year than any other. I have even seen more birds up north that were never there....yet we have more hawks than ever before??? No logic there. We have tons of hawks, then we shouldn't have tons of pheasants...right??

As a hunter and ethical sportsmen, take the opportunity to enjoy the outdoors instead of thinking of "killing birds" every chance you get into the field.

Learn about the wildlife this great state has. If we lived in NY City we would all probably die just to see more than just a pigeon.

If you aren't willing to obey the laws set forth, then it is an indication that you don't respect the privilages you have to hunt.


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## CD

I am all for preserving wildlife and yes there is an abundance of upland game right now, RIGHT NOW!!! so what happens when we do have a bad winter and we have to start all over again?? the hawks are not going to help matters and they are only going to get worse as the years go buy. Right now we probably have between 4 and 7 hawks in a one mile radius, what is going to happen when there is 10 or 15 in a mile radius, remember why they started a spring goose season?


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## Triple B

I don't think alot of you guys understand much about our native hawks. like dick stated earlier they will rarely take ducks or pheasants as their chief means of prey, and most avian predators in ND rely chiefly on rodent species as a means of survival. this is a common misconception among many in the outdoor world. the second thing i'm not sure many here realize is that, hawks, like other speices MIGRATE. this large influx of raptors you are seeing now and have been seeing the last few weeks are more than likely birds migrating from northern breeding grounds. now you are probably seeing mostly northern harriers, broad-winged hawks or red-tails, many, if not most, of which don't even breed here, much less take game species but on rare occasions.


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## Dak

Liv2Hunt and Triple B,

You have it exactly right.

Below is from the NDGF:

RAPTOR MIGRATION
It may look like a scene from Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds" as a
swarm of large birds circle high in the sky. Only you're not watching a
movie, but standing in your back yard, or maybe on a prairie hilltop,
viewing raptors in transit.
Each fall, millions of birds migrate south to warmer winter habitat.
Raptors are one group of birds making this annual aerial trek, and one
of the most visible as they travel during the day when wind conditions
are better and prey is easier to spot.
While raptors feed on the occasional gamebird, prey is mostly
rodents and insects. Longtime blame for thinning gamebird populations
is nothing more than a bad rap.
North Dakota Game and Fish Department biologists hear comments
each fall about how there appears to be a lot more hawks around than
typical. There is good reason for that, as hawks that summered in
Canada and Alaska are making their way through North Dakota in
autumn, bringing with them juvenile birds making the trip for the first
time.
Some species of raptors may migrate in flocks of a hundred or more
birds. Many others, including most falcons, migrate individually. It is
estimated that only one-quarter of juvenile raptors survive their first
winter. Many raptors starve to death, some are electrocuted by power
lines, others fly into buildings, and some are shot illegally.
The roster of raptors you can see during the fall migration, or at
other times of the year in North Dakota, is long and interesting. There
is the turkey vulture, an eagle-sized bird that sports a bare, reddish
head, and feeds almost entirely on carrion; sharp-shinned hawk, a small
raptor sometimes seen at backyard bird feeders eating house sparrows;
Swainson's hawk, a large bird regularly seen perched on fence posts or
telephone poles when not making its annual 17,000-mile trip to
Argentina and back; ferruginous hawk, a true "prairie hawk" that feeds
primarily on ground squirrels, but will also prey on grasshoppers, birds
and lizards; the list goes on.
Raptors, whether en route to wintering grounds or hanging around
North Dakota to nest and raise young, are important to the ecosystem
as they help control rodent populations. One red-tailed hawk can eat
more than 1,000 mice per year, for example, proving more efficient
than any mousetrap ever built.
SANDRA HAGEN is a Game and Fish Department nongame biologist.


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## coyote_buster

Even though a hawk isn't endangered, niether is a pheasant so what are you so worried about.


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## CD

Your right pheasants arent endangered, but the rough grouse population is way down in my neck of the woods, and the hungarian partidge hasnt been real abundant either.


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## always_outdoors

> Your right pheasants arent endangered, but the rough grouse population is way down in my neck of the woods, and the hungarian partidge hasnt been real abundant either.


CD I don't want to look like I am picking on you, but huns are making a comeback. What hurt them the most was the fact that because they aren't native (like the pheasant) they would lay their eggs typically in crop fields. When farmers came by to spray their crops, the pesticide would break down the shell of the egg and a clutch would be lost. No offspring from that pair.

If we have a hard winter, so be it. There is more to our outdoors than just the ring necked pheasant.


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## CD

I noticed you didnt say anything about ruffed grouse, and yes they are making a comeback but very slowly and with an abundance of plots and crp they should have no problem with the hatch. and yes you are right there is more to our outdoors then pheasants.


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## Triple B

CD said:


> I noticed you didnt say anything about ruffed grouse, and yes they are making a comeback but very slowly and with an abundance of plots and crp they should have no problem with the hatch. and yes you are right there is more to our outdoors then pheasants.


once again many of you don't see the bigger picture when it comes to bird populations. first off ruffed grouse are one of the few species of birds that are on a cyclic population trend. this is generally a ten year period when a population will hit a low and then rebound to its peak and the cycle starts over. also many, MANY, other things must be taken into consideration. i'm not sure where you are from , but there is much peer reviewed scientific literature on ruffed grouse and population dynamics. pick up a few papers and let us all know what you find out. more often than not the number one cause for ruffed grouse decline is either habitat descruction or lack of forage in a given year.


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## Dick Monson

One of the reasons people are seeing more hawks this year is that the mouse and vole population has exploded. Good food.. good feeding. A cold front hit tonight and that migration of birds will be gone soon.

On a side note, coyotes get a bad rap on pheasants too. They are a suction machine on feral cats, young skunks, etc. Not to mention rabbits in bean fields! But I haven't seen pheasant feathers at a coyote den.


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## CD

it seams to me you do alot of reading, and believe alot of what other people or so called experts are telling you, I guess if that is the stand you take then that is your deal. I have witnessed the cycles and yes you are correct in saying they are in cycles but I have seen time and time again from a combine while harvesting, hawks and other preditor birds killing sharptail and huns. I am not saying kill off the bird, I am saying control it, its like canadien honkers it wasnt long ago we couldnt shoot them and it was a heavy fine, now the population is back and we can harvest them, so why not hawks?


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## KEN W

Dick Monson said:


> One of the reasons people are seeing more hawks this year is that the mouse and vole population has exploded. Good food.. good feeding. A cold front hit tonight and that migration of birds will be gone soon.
> 
> On a side note, coyotes get a bad rap on pheasants too. They are a suction machine on feral cats, young skunks, etc. Not to mention rabbits in bean fields! But I haven't seen pheasant feathers at a coyote den.


Coyotes keep the fox population down.....now there is a nesting birds nightmare as they not only get the eggs but the nesting hen as well.


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## Triple B

I couldn't agree with you more dick. Coyotes are not in fact as hard on game birds as people believe. carnivores like red fox, skunk, raccoons and most species in the weasel family cause the most damage. fox are probably the hardest, as Ken stated they will take adult birds as well as eggs. the others mentioned can do a number on nests in a hurry.


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## coyotebuster

You guys need to stop worrying about the hawks and raptors and start shooting raccoons, those things raise heck on game bird eggs and the young birds. The other night out bowhunting I counted 12 of those things running by my stand. In my opinion raccoons and skunks are way harder on the birds that hawks are. The bad thing is that fur prices are not that great so they dont get trapped as much.

Moorhead MN


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## g/o

Hunters kill more than all groups combined


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## kgpcr

G/O
not a chance! We shoot only roosters and that has little impact on the number of birds if any. They kill hens and that is what makes them so devastating. I would also bet that that the numbers are not as close as you would think.


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## Dak

I don't have any kind of report to back it up but I gotta agree with G/O. I can't see predators killing over 800 - 900,000 pheasants last year in North Dakota.


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## BROWNDOG

CD said:


> it seams to me you do alot of reading, and believe alot of what other people or so called experts are telling you, I guess if that is the stand you take then that is your deal. I have witnessed the cycles and yes you are correct in saying they are in cycles but I have seen time and time again from a combine while harvesting, hawks and other preditor birds killing sharptail and huns. I am not saying kill off the bird, I am saying control it, its like canadien honkers it wasnt long ago we couldnt shoot them and it was a heavy fine, now the population is back and we can harvest them, so why not hawks?


Why not hawks????? In most cases if you kill a furbering preditor, by either trapping or hunting you are doing it for the fur, that will go to use for something. What are you going to do with a hawk or an eagle?? I really see no reason to have a season on raptors. Let mother nature take care of itself everytime we try and intervene we screw it up in one way or another.


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## CD

so when was the last time you ate a squirrel? or how about a crow? how about those seasons?


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## Triple B

CD said:


> it seams to me you do alot of reading, and believe alot of what other people or so called experts are telling you, I guess if that is the stand you take then that is your deal. I have witnessed the cycles and yes you are correct in saying they are in cycles but I have seen time and time again from a combine while harvesting, hawks and other preditor birds killing sharptail and huns. I am not saying kill off the bird, I am saying control it, its like canadien honkers it wasnt long ago we couldnt shoot them and it was a heavy fine, now the population is back and we can harvest them, so why not hawks?


I have done some extensive reading in the past, and yes have talked to quite a few experts on this matter. I also hold a Bacholers degree in Wildlife management, and have spent a bit of time studying predator-prey relations. one thing i will tell you is this. you can waste as much time or money as you want trying to curb predator populations, and in the long term will have no avail. short-term, it may work to an extent, but then it becomes a financial burden on both the state and taxpayers to try and control a certain species for the abundance of another. long term it is not feasible to maintain a strict control on such species of predators, because of constant in-migration of new animals into a control area. look at the bounty systems in the past, they became to impractical to continue. As I have stated before hawks are not an issue when talking gamebird populations and just suggesting an open season on them is just plain ludacris. mother nature put these animals all in the same place for a reason, and as browndog stated, we are much better off letting mother nature take its course.


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## CD

burden on the taxpayer?? your joking right?? you could probably sell a separate license for hawks and make money for the state. I like the fact that you are for mother nature taking its course and all that but I really dont think it would hurt anything by people controlling the populations of hawks, dont you think there are an over abundance of them? I know they are migrating but it just seams overwhelming with them and not only right now but through the entire year.


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## Triple B

CD said:


> burden on the taxpayer?? your joking right?? you could probably sell a separate license for hawks and make money for the state. I like the fact that you are for mother nature taking its course and all that but I really dont think it would hurt anything by people controlling the populations of hawks, dont you think there are an over abundance of them? I know they are migrating but it just seams overwhelming with them and not only right now but through the entire year.


 I'm not sure you are quite getting what I and others have been saying. Hawks ARE NOT a huge predation risk to our gamebird species! Now, if we do say let people start shooting them, then guess what happens? rodent species will explode, possibly causing extensive damage to our farmers crops. also the furbearing animals will have a more plentiful food source and will proliferate to a point higher than seen before. once the rodent population is reduced by the more abundant furbear population they will have no where to turn but to gamebirds. theres a reason we call it a food chain, you break a link in it and the rest of the chain crashes. the only reason you are seeing these spectacular numbers of raptors now is because they are migrating. if you haven't already, please read the NDG&F release in a previous post. this will help you get a better understanding of the current situation. we need hawks, we need carnivores, we need animals and plants of the ecosystem that sometimes seem to serve no purpose, and seem to cause only harm. whenever we as humans try to play god with populations it always ends in too many or too few. case in point, what has caused deer populations to increase? resident Canada geese? (hint) its not because we aren't shooting enough of them. humans have created a plethera of ideal habitat and feeding opprotunities in which these animals have taken advantage. what has caused the ivory-billed woodpeckers or whooping cranes catastrophic populations crashes? habitat desruction and market hunting. obviously in certain cases we need to manage certain species as best we can, but whenever we can just leave something alone, it is probably in the best interest for all species.


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## coyotebuster

You guys need to stop worrying about hawks because there is never going to be anything we can do to control the number of them. One thing we can do to help the birds is to shoot and trap more raccoons. In my opinion those things do way more damage on the birds than the hawks do. If you think about it a raccoon eats way more pheasants in a year than a hawk does. The reason is because a full meal for a hawk would be probably be one adult bird, where a raccoon might eat 5-15 possible adult birds in one meal because its eating the eggs. So I think we need to start shooting more of those things.


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## CD

the thing of it is guys is that, you are probably right in saying that they arent that big of a burden on the upland bird population, but I am concerned about there just being to many of the species around, sort of like deer in some areas there are just too many deer and they tend to be a nuisance.. like anything to much of something is not good for anything...


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## Turner

CD, 
What you do not grasp, it is not up to you to decide if there are too many of one species and if it needs to be thinned out. Besides, raptors and birds of prey are all protected under federal law get it, it is illegal to shoot them. Like mentioned above, if you want to try and help out the upland population, take out the 4 legged scavengers i.e. raccoons, fox, coyotes, skunks. :sniper:


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## CD

ya ya ya I know all of the so called experts know everything!!! maybe instead of reading what people say and listening to all of these people get out into the outdoors and see what is going on. that is the problem with society today, so eager to SIT and read a book instead of getting out and actually taking in what is going on. If you think that an owl or hawk wont find a covey of huns and attack and kill one by one then you obviously didnt read the right book..... And yes I do kill my share of varmints so dont worry about that, I do my part there.


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## Dak

ya ya ya I know all of the so called experts know everything!!! maybe instead of seeing one hawk getting a bird you read what people who spent their life studying nature have to say. that is the problem with society today, so eager to take one situation they've seen and apply it with a broad brush. If you think that an owl or hawk lives on coveys of huns attacked and killed one by one then you obviously didnt read the right book..... And yes I do kill my share of varmints so dont worry about that, I do my part there.

I apologize in advance but I couldn't resist..too easy.

:beer:


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## Triple B

CD said:


> ya ya ya I know all of the so called experts know everything!!! maybe instead of reading what people say and listening to all of these people get out into the outdoors and see what is going on. that is the problem with society today, so eager to SIT and read a book instead of getting out and actually taking in what is going on. If you think that an owl or hawk wont find a covey of huns and attack and kill one by one then you obviously didnt read the right book..... And yes I do kill my share of varmints so dont worry about that, I do my part there.


you must have no idea how many hours, days, months, and years are spent by these "experts" who publish these neat little "books" on the subjects they study. ignorance is bliss my friend. I think Dak put things into perspective nicely.


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## Gooseguy10

The fact that hawks and other predators are doing so well indicates there is a good source of food.

Instead of shooting up those raptors, shoot up all those pheasants while they are still here. One bad winter and the pheasants will die off and leave a lot less hawks. Which will solve the hawk "problem."

Let mother nature handle the ebb and flow of population of animals. It has done a fine job over the past couple of million years.....that is until we step in "to help" and screw it up.


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## coyote_buster

Gooseguy10 said:


> Instead of shooting up those raptors, shoot up all those pheasants while they are still here.
> 
> Let mother nature handle the ebb and flow of population of animals. It has done a fine job over the past couple of million years.....that is until we step in "to help" and screw it up.


Do you often disagree with yourself. This didn't make much sence to me.


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## kgpcr

Predators kill over a million a year! every nest destroyed is 8 dead birds.


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## always_outdoors

> Predators kill over a million a year!


Can you site or reference this phrase please?


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## Neanderthal

My rule on cats-over .25 mile from farm=dead cat. But, then again I just hate cats.


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## coyote_buster

My cats wander around up to two miles from my house, thats because they are looking for food because i don't feed them because want them to go away. so i guess you can pop a cap in my cats @$$


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## Dick Monson

Not trying to butt heads with g/o that hunters account for the most birds killed, but I wonder if that is actually true. SD had a study that hunters have a difficult time harvesting more than 30% of the roosters. They wise up and slide out the side. That would leave 70% of the roosters and 100% of the hens. If I remember the study, they said the weather just grinds them up over a years time. The hens are most succeptable to weather when they are on the nest, due to having to maintain body temp for the eggs. Maybe somebody can pull up that study. It had some suprising facts.


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## Gooseguy10

Coyote. What I was saying is go out hunting b.c there is a lot of pheasants around and let mother nature worry about the ebb and flow of animal populations.

We haven't targeted raptors in the past and we seem to have record numbers of pheasants around right now.


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