# Loaded Rifle In Vehicle/Shooting From A Vehicle



## NDTerminator

This came up in another thread and as it was a quiet shift last night I did some research on the laws pertaining to loaded rifles in motor vehicles (in ND).

Chapter 62 of the ND Century Code deals with Weapons laws. It states that it is a B Misdemeanor to have a loaded weapon in a vehicle, with 4 exceptions. Two are for LE and military personnel and aren't relevant to dog hunting.

the third is the exemption for CC permit and it states if you have a CC permit you can carry any type of weapon loaded in the vehicle.

The fourth states that a loaded weapon in a MV is legal when "afield hunting non-game" species. Non-Game species is clear, but "afield hunting" is less so. This is where discretion on an officer's part comes in, and why more leeway is given ranchers and farmers particularly out west so they can pop a yote anytime they see one.

I live in the country but work in town. When I'm out in whites with calls, clearly I'm afield hunting, but when I'm driving into town for shift or lunch, I'm not. In that case, my rifle can be loaded in the magazine but not in the chamber for the trip into town, and cannot be loaded in the chamber while in town unless in my capacity as a LE.

BTW, it's specifically illegal to discharge a firearm within any city limits in ND, so it's not possible to be "afield hunting" within a city. That means the loaded weapon in a MV is universally applicable within towns & cities.
A person can't put a round in the chamber until out of city limits where it's legal to hunt with a firearm. As I said elsewhere, this is where we (DLPD) run into most violators, as they either purposely fail or forget to unload their rifle/shotgun before coming into town.

As for shooting out of the vehicle, the only reference I found was in the furbearer regs specifically relating to dog hunting. It states at night, dogs can only be hunted on foot and with a call. This would seem to infer, but not actually state that during daylight hours it's permissible/legal to hunt/shoot them out of a vehicle.

Regs and laws that don't specifically state what is allowed make me nervous. I'm going to give one of the CO's I know a call sometime in the next few days and get a hard clarification on this.

Hope this helps clear up any questions...


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## barebackjack

A round in the chamber while in the vehicle is stupid and un-needed, no matter what your "hunting".


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## Fallguy

Good research and thanks for typing up your findings. Let us know what you find out in addition.


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## Plainsman

barebackjack said:


> A round in the chamber while in the vehicle is stupid and un-needed, no matter what your "hunting".


Hey bareback tell us what you really think.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Also, be aware of your city Ordinances I know for a FACT in Fargo it is ILLEGAL to have anything in your gun. Weather is be the mag or chamber. Also, it MUST be cased in FARGO. UNless LE, or CC permit.

Not sure about other towns. Just want you guys to be aware of Fargo. I know you will be pulled out of your car at gunpoint if you get pulled over and they see a uncased gun.


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## lyonch

hunt4p&y 
i take it you have had a personal experience with that law in fargo


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## averyghg

hunt4P&Y said:


> Also, be aware of your city Ordinances I know for a FACT in Fargo it is ILLEGAL to have anything in your gun. Weather is be the mag or chamber. Also, it MUST be cased in FARGO. UNless LE, or CC permit.
> 
> Not sure about other towns. Just want you guys to be aware of Fargo. I know you will be pulled out of your car at gunpoint if you get pulled over and they see a uncased gun.


how did you find that out?


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I know two guys that got nailed for it, I then talked to a few of my buddies that are on the PD. They then pulled out there CC book and showed me the law.

Remember you are responsible to know the laws in your area. They don't have to even tell you about something like this, if it is in the books thats what goes.

I think you can look it up on the web.

I'm just to lazy to do it.


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## barebackjack

hunt4P&Y said:


> Also, be aware of your city Ordinances I know for a FACT in Fargo it is ILLEGAL to have anything in your gun. Weather is be the mag or chamber. Also, it MUST be cased in FARGO. UNless LE, or CC permit.
> 
> Not sure about other towns. Just want you guys to be aware of Fargo. I know you will be pulled out of your car at gunpoint if you get pulled over and they see a uncased gun.


Hmmm, ive been driving alot with a magazine loaded uncased rifle in Fargo, so I spent the last half hour looking for this ordinance. Couldnt find it. Not calling you a liar, just that I couldnt find it. Anybody else looked?


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## Jaybic

NDterminator,

Thanks for the research. On that other post I was just asking for this and you beat me to it to feel free to ignore that one. Is there any way you can get this in official print or photo copy and scan or cut and paste it verbatim so we can all can read it word for word and hopefully clear up the confusion?

That would help out alot!

Thanks again

Jaybic


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## Fallguy

Yikes I didn't know about that law in Fargo. I came back from a hunting trip and had to stop in Fargo once and didn't have my rifle cased, sitting on the front seat and all.

Anyone know about GF? If there is one I have broken that one a few times too.


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## NDTerminator

Jack, I happen to agree with you on this point. I'm not selling this as a home game, just posting to clear up any confusion.

Jay, I'll see if I can pull up the pertinent sections of the State's website and post them tonight. May have a problem posting as for some reason our computers at the LEC have a hard time loading Nodak before it times out. The laws I cited I took directly out of the printed Century Code we keep at the LEC.

Can't speak to any GF or Fargo ordinances, but I can advise a City ordinance can't supercede the Century Code. Most times cities simply adopt the Century Code up through B Misdemeanors for their Municipal Code/City Ordinances, as Municipal Courts can only preside over/up to B Mis. violations.

Could it be Fargo is interpreting "loaded" to include rounds in the magazine?...


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

NDTERM,

I am thinking it is they have defined loaded as in the Mag. I know what what you mean about them not being able to over-rule state.

I know there was someone that found it last year I think it was R y a n. I have no idea where to start.

I guess one way you could test it is throw your gun in the front seat of your truck with rounds in the mag, and go speeding around. I know when you get pulled over you will get a uncased and loaded firearm in city limits ticket.

I will do some research give me some time!


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## Ron Gilmore

NDT, Fargo is a Home Rule Charter city with a very liberal city commission that has passed some very strange laws. Do not assume anything in regards to state law and century code and Fargo.

For example back a few years ago, they wanted the Pawn Shops to go on line. To get the pawn shops to agree, they approved a proposal from Chief Magnus that allows the pawn shop to hold your stolen property unless you pay them what they paid for it.

So Craig the Crook steals your Zeiss binos and the pawn shop buys them for $500.00 You walk in and find them and can prove with SN and personal markings its yours and have a police report to prove it. You will have to pay the $500.00 to get them back.

Now the best part on this, is that they have set a time frame in which the pawn shop has to hold a known stolen item. It is shorter than the time that it takes for someone if arrested for the thief can come to trial.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

ND term,

When you read that CC does it say something about the City having final say? And being able to set there own precedent? If I remember correctly this is the case.

Don't quote me on it however.

Still searching.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I just spent 45 min looking read through all Fargo Ord. DIDn't find it. I have no idea where it is.

I also looked through every post I have ever made on here, becuase I remeber talking about this a long time ago. I didn't find it here either.

Sorry guys!


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## TANATA

So..... can you shoot a dog out the window? legally that is.


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## ilike2shoot

I have a copy of the ND CC somewhere in the house (guess the CJ major came in handy for something..LOL), I'll see if I can find it and scan the section NDTerminater was referring to.


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## morel_greg

Ive read the ordinance stating no uncased weapons in Fargo online but I dont remember anything about a loaded magazine. Ill try to find it again.


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## morel_greg

Found it.

Sec 10-0304 Part B of the city ordinances reads

Except as otherwise authorized by law, it also shall be unlawful for any
person to carry or have in his possession upon the streets, alleys, or in any
public place within the limits of the city any gun, firearm, air gun, stun gun or
similar electronic device designed to deliver an electronic charge or shock,
slingshot, bow, bow and arrow, or other similar device, unless the same shall
be enclosed in a case regularly provided therefor or securely wrapped in such
a manner as will not permit of the firing or discharging of the same.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t621c02.pdf

PAge 3 bottom about loaded Firearm

I am going to look one other place!


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Greg, that is in the Fargo one?


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## morel_greg

Yes it is the Fargo ordinance.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I have no idea how you found it?? I read that whole damn thing, my eyes are still hurting! I knew it was in there somewhere I just coulden't find it. :evil:

Hope that clears things up. I am almost positive if you look closely somewhere in the Fargo code it also says it must be COMPLETELY unloaded. This is crazy, you wold think in the NDGF regs they would warn you of this. Because in the NDGF regs it states that it is LEGAL to carry a weapon with rounds in the mag, and uncased. Stupid cities!


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## morel_greg

I had to use the search tool on the pdf but I knew it was there.

Part A talks about not having a concealed weapon and Part C is about not discharging a weapon in city limits except for LE, hunters managing deer or when allowed by law.

http://www.cityoffargo.com/attachments/ ... elfare.pdf


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## Fallguy

Wow guys you are really into it and learning something. Nice job.

Fallguy make mental note: No go to Fargo when hunting.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Very true Fallguy, very true! I knew I was correct, but was having some trouble backing my statement up! Thanks Greg!


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## NDTerminator

OK, here is some specific information directly out of the NDCC that relates to carrying of loaded weapons while hunting dogs...

NDCC 62.1.01-01 are the General Definitions in regard to weapons.
Subsection 16 states "_*Unloaded" means the chamber of the firearm does not contain a loaded shell. *_

62.1-02-10, reads* " No person may keep or carry a loaded firearm in or on any motor vehicle in this state". *

In the section outlining specific exceptions to 62.1-02-10, Subsection 4 reads as follows: * "Any person in the field engaged in lawful hunting or trapping of nongame species or fur bearing animals" *

So by NDCC, in a MV you can carry a rifle/shotgun that is loaded in the magazine, but not in the chamber, unless you have a CC permit or are engaged in lawful hunting of dogs "afield" (outside of any city limits). You can have a round in the chamber if one or both those exceptions apply.

Home Rule cities can modify an existing law, but they cannot supercede it.
Looks to me like Fargo simply modified some portion of Title 62 to be more strict...

Didn't get a chance to talk to any of the CO's today, but I will sometime this week...


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

May I also add. If you have a CC permit you can NOT have ANY gun loaded while engaged in the act of hunting in your truck. This is a sticky spot. WHen are you engaged in hunting?

I think it also reads that even an off duty officer can NOT have a rifle or shot gun loaded in there trucks while hunting. I think they can still have there side arms loaded, I may be wrong though. :-?


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## TANATA

Well we usually hunt the way back instead of taking the interstate and it's kinda a pain to have to stop and unload everything and dig out the cases. Dang cities. :evil:


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## Ron Gilmore

So the more you guys dig, the clearer the mud gets!!!!!!

NDT, something you may want to ask the CO is in regards to non game animals and legal method of hunting such animals. I have a couple of opinions from two veterans on this, I would be interested to hear another.

Asking them that really makes them scratch their heads!!!!


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## NDTerminator

hunt4P&Y said:


> May I also add. If you have a CC permit you can NOT have ANY gun loaded while engaged in the act of hunting in your truck. This is a sticky spot. WHen are you engaged in hunting?
> 
> I think it also reads that even an off duty officer can NOT have a rifle or shot gun loaded in there trucks while hunting. I think they can still have there side arms loaded, I may be wrong though. :-?


All that means is that neither a CC permit or LE License can be used to supercede any hunting regs in regard to loaded weapons. In other words, a CC permit holder or LEO must follow and obey the hunting regs like anyone else.

It's completely legal for either to have a rifle/shotgun loaded in the mag while hunting game or birds, or loaded in the chamber while hunting dogs, the same as anyone else...


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## R y a n

hunt4P&Y said:


> May I also add. If you have a CC permit you can NOT have ANY gun loaded while engaged in the act of hunting in your truck. This is a sticky spot. WHen are you engaged in hunting?
> 
> I think it also reads that even an off duty officer can NOT have a rifle or shot gun loaded in there trucks while hunting. I think they can still have there side arms loaded, I may be wrong though. :-?


Just saw this thread... yes it was me that found the earler reference. 

In regards to this quote above... It is my understanding that as an LEO, you can indeed have a loaded shotgun/rifle in your trunk, but not within reach. The NDGF would use a common sense approach and understand that you kept your duty weapons ready to use encased in the trunk... However they wouldn't look kindly on something you could yank from the back seat.

Ryan


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## R y a n

NDTerminator said:


> hunt4P&Y said:
> 
> 
> 
> May I also add. If you have a CC permit you can NOT have ANY gun loaded while engaged in the act of hunting in your truck. This is a sticky spot. WHen are you engaged in hunting?
> 
> I think it also reads that even an off duty officer can NOT have a rifle or shot gun loaded in there trucks while hunting. I think they can still have there side arms loaded, I may be wrong though. :-?
> 
> 
> 
> All that means is that neither a CC permit or LE License can be used to supercede any hunting regs in regard to loaded weapons. In other words, a CC permit holder or LEO must follow and obey the hunting regs like anyone else.
> 
> It's completely legal for either to have a rifle/shotgun loaded in the mag while hunting game or birds, or loaded in the chamber while hunting dogs, the same as anyone else...
Click to expand...

This crossed in cyberspace as I was typing... Thanks NDT 

Your understanding matches up with mine.


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## USSapper

What is a nongame species defined as? There is alot of confusion here it seems


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## barebackjack

morel_greg said:


> Found it.
> 
> Sec 10-0304 Part B of the city ordinances reads
> 
> Except as otherwise authorized by law, it also shall be unlawful for any
> person to carry or have in his possession upon the streets, alleys, or in any
> public place within the limits of the city any gun, firearm, air gun, stun gun or
> similar electronic device designed to deliver an electronic charge or shock,
> slingshot, bow, bow and arrow, or other similar device, unless the same shall
> be enclosed in a case regularly provided therefor or securely wrapped in such
> a manner as will not permit of the firing or discharging of the same.


Thanks for finding that. I read that darn thing for an hour last night and couldnt find it.

So, since I have a CC permit, im exempt from this?


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## NDTerminator

Jack, if you have a CC permit, you are exempt from that ordinance.
Remember a Municipal Ordinance cannot supercede a State Law.

Your CC allows you to carry anywhere in ND, but for a couple very specific instances clearly outlined in the NDCC, and which as a CC Permit holder I'm sure you are aware...


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

ND, and RYAN

First off Ryan when was that thread? I couldn't find that bugger I spent like an hour looking for it! :evil:

ND TERm, yes that is what I meant I just think it came off wrong. I guess the Game and fish just try's to make it read that way so off duty guys aren't rolling around with loaded shotguns in the front seat and blasting stuff. Yes, it does say they can have duty weapons loaded.

Man they sure do try and make this stuff tricky. It is weird because as an officer you can carry anywhere, yet they try and limit it when you are hunting.

I guess it is clear as mud now!!


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## ndm

I know this discussion is more about concealed carry laws and city gun ordinances. But as far as the original thread title. What part of hunters safety class advocates shooting from a vehicle or carrying a firearm with a round chambered?

Be safe, there is not a coyote on this earth that is worth your foot, your driveshaft, oil pan, or passenger side window. Never rely on a mechanical safety. In ND it may be legal for non game species but in most other states it would be called poaching.


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## barebackjack

ndm said:


> I know this discussion is more about concealed carry laws and city gun ordinances. But as far as the original thread title. What part of hunters safety class advocates shooting from a vehicle or carrying a firearm with a round chambered?
> 
> Be safe, there is not a coyote on this earth that is worth your foot, your driveshaft, oil pan, or passenger side window. Never rely on a mechanical safety. In ND it may be legal for non game species but in most other states it would be called poaching.


EXACTAMUNDO! :beer:


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## Fallguy

barebackjack said:


> ndm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this discussion is more about concealed carry laws and city gun ordinances. But as far as the original thread title. What part of hunters safety class advocates shooting from a vehicle or carrying a firearm with a round chambered?
> 
> Be safe, there is not a coyote on this earth that is worth your foot, your driveshaft, oil pan, or passenger side window. Never rely on a mechanical safety. In ND it may be legal for non game species but in most other states it would be called poaching.
> 
> 
> 
> EXACTAMUNDO! :beer:
Click to expand...

Yeah that is a good point ndm.


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## Ron Gilmore

Couple of people need to back up a bit and think about the intent of this rule. Now I and others who understand this law I do believe are not advocating the carrying of a loaded weapon in a vehicle. But shooting from the vehicle and loading the gun once the barrel is outside is a different matter when applying this to those of us that grew up on a farm.

I know the law gets abused by some. Heck I have seen guys set up on a hilltop with an ecaller for coyotes. But the platform of a vehicle is not an unsafe platform to shoot from any more than a shooting bench or prone position. The issue of safety comes into play when that weapon is left loaded and brought back into a vehicles.

With the ease of getting a CC permit, and the ability to a carry a weapon loaded because of it does not mean the person holding that permit is any more safe with a loaded weapon than a farmer is! Muzzle control and common sense are not something a permit gives one!

Heck just a couple weeks ago a trained LEO discharged his weapon inside a building in the city of Fargo. So tell me was that person more of a risk to others than Joe Farmer loading a round in the chamber of his .22 with the barrel pointed out the window to dispatch a skunk?


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## Fallguy

Good post Ron.

I am currently looking into getting a concealed weapons permit. I was VERY suprised how easy it is to get this permit. Open book test and pay some money is what I took it as. Pretty crazy to think of some of the people that could get a permit.


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## NDTerminator

That stuff is just the formailities, FG. The applicant still has to go through a background/criminal records check and have the app signed off by the Chief or Sheriff of his jurisdiction...


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## NDTerminator

hunt4P&Y said:


> ND, and RYAN
> 
> First off Ryan when was that thread? I couldn't find that bugger I spent like an hour looking for it! :evil:
> 
> ND TERm, yes that is what I meant I just think it came off wrong. I guess the Game and fish just try's to make it read that way so off duty guys aren't rolling around with loaded shotguns in the front seat and blasting stuff. Yes, it does say they can have duty weapons loaded.
> 
> Man they sure do try and make this stuff tricky. It is weird because as an officer you can carry anywhere, yet they try and limit it when you are hunting.
> 
> I guess it is clear as mud now!!


There's the Letter Of The Law and the Intent Of The Law. After every legislative session, we have to go through training on the new laws so we know intent and how it should be enforced, as opposed to what it sounds like it means. Sometimes theres' a big difference!

After a few years of being a LEO or lawyer though, a person gets so he can interpret stuff pretty closely right out of the box....


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## Savage260

> Jack, if you have a CC permit, you are exempt from that ordinance.
> Remember a Municipal Ordinance cannot supercede a State Law.


Sarge, basically what you are saying here is that a city ordinance can be more strict, but not less strict than the state law correct? I think a few people may have some confusion over the wording.


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## Fallguy

NDTerminator said:


> That stuff is just the formailities, FG. The applicant still has to go through a background/criminal records check and have the app signed off by the Chief or Sheriff of his jurisdiction...


You are right about that I forgot those things. That doesn't seem too tough. I was suprised to see however that you don't even have to demonstate PROPER or SAFE gun handling and operating of the firearm. That is something that should be required. If it is I missed it.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Fallguy,

Nope not required anymore. They took that off of the test. Kinda crazy if you ask me!


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## Plainsman

Fallguy said:


> NDTerminator said:
> 
> 
> 
> That stuff is just the formailities, FG. The applicant still has to go through a background/criminal records check and have the app signed off by the Chief or Sheriff of his jurisdiction...
> 
> 
> 
> You are right about that I forgot those things. That doesn't seem too tough. I was suprised to see however that you don't even have to demonstate PROPER or SAFE gun handling and operating of the firearm. That is something that should be required. If it is I missed it.
Click to expand...

Hello Fallguy. The reasoning behind not requiring a shooting test was: It doesn't matter how good or how poor you shoot everyone should have the right to self defense. I have heard this decision was made at the attorney generals office.


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## Fallguy

Ahhh...I see Plainsman I can see the logic in that.


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## ac700wildcat

I also figured the concealed carry test would be harder. I took it here in Devils Lake and also didn't have to shoot a firearm. Someone I know that got one before me had to tho. I actually need to go bak and re-do the test as my papers got lost before I got a chance to take them in. :-?


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## TANATA

Anyone remember about 8 years back when I blind got got his CC?? Look out!!


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## R y a n

hunt4P&Y said:


> ND, and RYAN
> 
> First off Ryan when was that thread? I couldn't find that bugger I spent like an hour looking for it! :evil:
> 
> I guess it is clear as mud now!!


http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=24438

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=42689

The second link is the one that I outlined the law....

 All you needed to do was click the search link on the forum page. Search for terms "Concealed and Fargo", search for all terms, with author of "R y a n"

You would have had 2 links returned I believe. (above)

My post:

I found the exact Fargo City Municipal code:

10-0304. Carrying, possession, discharge of dangerous weapons.-

A. No person, except as authorized by law, shall carry concealed about his person firearms of any description, any electronic stun gun or similar device designed to deliver an electronic charge or shock, or any sharp or dangerous weapon such as is usually employed in attack or in defense of the person.

B. Except as otherwise authorized by law, it also shall be unlawful for any 
person to carry or have in his possession upon the streets, alleys, or in any 
public place within the limits of the city any gun, firearm, air gun, stun gun or similar electronic device designed to deliver an electronic charge or shock, slingshot, bow, bow and arrow, or other similar device, unless the same shall be enclosed in a case regularly provided therefor or securely wrapped in such a manner as will not permit of the firing or discharging of the same.

http://tinyurl.com/3akwun

Ryan


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