# Obamacare again



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

We were at a party last night and talking to one of our friends. Her mother called to see why she didn't get her social security check. She was informed that she had died on June 17th. I'll bet that was a shock. She said her mother felt like she was in the old Twilight Zone show. Anyway, here are some more interesting things.



> **
> Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to
> all non-U.S. residents, even if they are here illegally.
> 
> ...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

That is why they had to pass it to see what was in it.... uke: uke:

Plains... We can talk until we are blue in the face about how horrible this bill is but until the Supreme Court does something about it or Congress (don't know which one will act faster) our nation is screwed!!!

But i am happy that the Supreme Court Ruled what they did these past few days. That leaves the door open to overturn other things in this bill.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

At risk of being called a Communist, there ARE a few good things that this law tries to remedy! Even though IMHO there is more bad than good in the AHA and while it does solve a few things, it screws up many other things and does NOTHING to decrease the escalating cost of medical care! Arguably while doing SOME good it really fuels the cost fire!
I'm retired, covered with Medicare plus the usual add - on supplements, and awaiting a surgery (another surgery) on my back. I found out yesterday that the surgical procedure that I need is nor covered by Medicare OR any other private insurance either! I failure to cover this surgery has nothing to do with Obamacare, though Obamacare does make an attempt to remedy it through other complicated measures. 
So I now have to decide 
1) do I bite the bullet, continues taking various medications including those damned narcotics, to live with the pain??? Do I get enough bang for the buck to justify the cost. We are talking pain and comfort here, not life and death stuff! 
2) just suck it up and pay the$38,464.65 ( cheapest price so far - more on that later!) to cover the cost of the surgery? Sure I can afford it, but admittedly it's a lot harder to make up your mind if surgery is worth it if you write a check and not just " let the insurance company cover it". I'd bet 99% of people have no clue what medical costs are of the have insurance! I admit I sure didn't!!! Not a clue!!! 
3). Shop around to different institutions , like buying a boat or car, and see what the bottom line cost to me would be! I've started this and am finding HUGE discrepancies from place to place for exactly the same surgery! I might write a newspaper article later, but it's a fascinating project! From the above thirty eight thousand in one city to around 75 thousand in another, and 80 plus in another! And I've just started, too , and am knowledgeable enough about medical stuff to be careful not to be comparing apples with oranges! The estimates can be horribly confusing, even to me who knows the system!
3). Look elsewhere in the world, and compare prices and outcomes. Technology and medical knowhow is very exportable nowadays, and no civilized first world county's medicine is ahead of another, for all practical purposes. For the heck of it I think I'll look at Europe, Canada, Australia/ New Zealand, and definitely India! It's a well kept secret that many private insurance companies offshore expensive stuff like heart surgery,etc. much cheaper to pay the patient and spouses way over, have them take a 2 week tour of the country, have the surgery, stay another week post hospital with daily visits be well trained nurses, etc. and save the insurance companies loads of money. Quality of medical care differences between these selected places and the system here are negligible. No better or worse,just cheaper! 
I laugh when people boldly say that the system isn't broken! Not that Obamacare will be magic superglue, though at least it has underlined the fact that there are problems that won't go away! My long supported " party of NO" has been worse than Obama and his henchmen/ women. Whether inaction is better than well meaning though screwed up action is a matter of debate!


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## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/kithil.asp

Apparently we don't even have to read the bill to know whats in it.....just rely on a list from the internet from an un-named source to get your "facts!" Then re-distribute as fact!

"Virtually every statement included in this list is exaggerated, misleading, inaccurate, or outright erroneous" (from link above). Aren't you guys always droning on about how liberals are the dishonest ones? Guess not in this case!

Not a fan of Obamacare, but even less of a fan of people who don't use critical thinking skills to spot bs when they see it (or at least research the bs) bc they are blinded by an agenda. I mean really, why let the truth get in the way of making an argument.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

even if that quote isn't correct..... There were people on record that said the haven't read the entire bill yet voted for it. THAT IS SCARY.

You can say I am blinded by agenda?? No way. I just saw a horrible bill that will cripple out nation. How many of the things I have predicted come true?? If you want to research look back at all of my Obama care threads before it was even voted on and then see how many came true. I would say i am hitting well above .500 on that issue.

Look that the stuff that is coming up that is so flawed in this bill.

HH... You are correct there are some good things in this bill. Like making the insurance companies give back or cut rates if they don't payout (i think it was something along these lines) 80% of its intake of premiums. That is good it is keeping insurance companies honest instead of giving out huge bonuses. But yet that is one good among many flaws.

Like you mentioned this bill does nothing to lower the cost of actually doing healthcare. It did lower the costs of paying nurses, doctors, buying medicine, surgical supplies, etc. Then you have to look into the non-medical expenses that happen.... heating/cool the buildings, electricity rates, building/repair costs, maintaining buildings, etc. those costs are increasing as well. Now you add into the fact that the biggest portion of the population is the babyboomers and they will be requiring care. So now the need to hire more nurses, doctors, clerical workers, accountants, etc. So do you think the cost of actual doing health care is going to decrease???? NOPE... So what will that do to insurance premiums.... GO UP!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> even if that quote isn't correct..... There were people on record that said the haven't read the entire bill yet voted for it. THAT IS SCARY.


It's the crap we see personally that makes things believable. Also, I throw some things on here and let you guys sort it out. There are better things to do. So thanks gooseguy.

I personally know three people now that have been told they are to old to get the surgery they need. Then the lady we talked to the other night who's mother was informed she was deceased. The medical infrastructure is falling apart.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Costs are going to skyrocket no matter what!?! With aging baby boomers numbers plus their declining health, millions of heart troubles, diabetes, Alzheimer's, nursing home care, and you name it! There 's not likely to be enough money in the entire USA to cover all these factors. More people getting older and more lousy ( preventable) health problems! A terrible situation!

Yet when ever anyone talks of PREVeNTION, watch what happens. Michelle Obama was ridiculed, nastily criticized, even thousands of blogs about her supposed fat butt immediately began on blog sites and talk shows! I don't like her husband much, but at least she was TRYING to improve food quality in schools, get young kids off their collective *****, etc.

Read about the military being unable to sign up adequate volunteers because of obesity, lousy education, out of shape, etc. so far concerned Generals are spared the nastiness directed at Michele Obama but they'll be ignored because NOBODyY wants their particular lifestyle criticized! The pentagon echoed what several have said, including Barbara Bush, Michell O and Nancy Reagan tried. But I'll bet my pension nothing will happen!
Diabetes doubling every ten years!?! Who pays??? When fishing the other days all three of us were talking about obesity and diabetes, and one wag pointed out all the walleye fishing boats around us and commented that ND fishermen must be on track to have the highest rate of diabetes in the country because out of every boat we passed, EVERY One was filled with overweight guys, many of them smoking, eating Doritos, etc. one fishing buddy renarked no wonder they all need bigger and bigger boats! I'd bet many of these same guys blog about the perils of Obamacare and ridicule any suggestions about prevention and decreasing USAGE of medical care! 
Not so much on this website, but of Fishing*****ing.Com especially! This website has mostly nice and respectful posters regardless of what the other guy thinks. If those FBO guys were running the country we'd be stuck in 1990 forever, except for things the'd push back to the dark ages! LOL. Luckily election demographers tell us that young white males are least likely to vote except for young black males!

OK, enough rants from me! Anyone have any solid suggestions of how to fix the system? I don't......tossing out Obamacare at this point is a non starter IMO and IMO would simply make an impossible solution even more bleak! If Obama had asked me for my idea of a solution, I'd have gone about it in an entirely different way. Simply mandating insurance makes things worse, IMO. 
As far as docs and hospitals going broke bad making less, Chuck! I'll sell you a bridge in New York! LOL


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Health care, free market, consumer protection, and freedom is one heck of a balancing act. One thing I noticed on farmerbuddy is the stark lines of division. I guess the whole country is getting that way. Some people think I am to conservative, but bring up conservation or anything environmental and they will call you liberal. Today with google it's sometimes hard to know if people understand, or are they just using google and trying to snow you. There are some armchair biologists that couldn't find their rear end using both hands, but they know all about managing deer, wetlands, hydrology, you name it. They cuss science one second then cite it the next.

Anyway as far as Michell a better diet is a good idea, but like many people I resent her telling us what we have to do. I don't know, maybe retards just have to kick off if that's what they are determined to do.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Yep, on FBO you can be even more conservative about certain issues than the herd, and be called a LIBERAl, because you've disagreed with the mob and the mob seems to be too I'll educated( hate to call names but sometimes have to call a spade a friggin shovel, so I'll say Stupid!) Do it twice, or dare to say that there is a few things Obamacare tries to fix and you'll be not only called a communist over and over, but their website leader/ moderator will actually contact the communist caller and encourage him to keep calling the poster a " communist!" Things are so out of control there that I've begun e mailing advertisers, but that's another story!

In any case, interested parties like the pentagon, pediatricians, and even Michelle Obama and scores of others hit a raw nerve when advocating better school lunches, physical activity,eye. Because of the parents own bad health habits. I doubt it has much to do with any yelling about personal rights, etc. does any parent even know what the kids are fed in school lunches anyway? I sure didn't when our kids were in school, and I would think any parent with half a brain would welcome better food there, if they cared! Naw, it's politics, not individual rights ad nauseum......

Heck, remember when kids came home from school urging their parents NOT to smoke? Wwwaaayyy back then I smoked and when the kids started yelling st me I quit, and now thank them and the schools immensely! Especially now that I see friends dying from smoking related illness and worse, being debilitated stuck at home saddled with huge health bills and being unable to hunt and gush......


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Habitat...

I agree what Michelle is trying to do is a good start. I never ridicule her for that. The only problem is the cost it is going to cost the schools to implement it. That is the kicker. So what does that do... RAISE TAXES. Which for this I would be happy to pay. But many others are not.

Now with the health care and how to lower costs.... # 1 TORT REFORM, # 2 Medical Devices/medicine development laws. These are majors issue that was never touched in the bill. You know why.... Because 90% (or something like that) of our elected officials are Lawyers. So why would Lawyers want Tort Reform so that their buddies or themselves can't bring frivolous law suits against doctors and medical institutions. With the medical device/medicine development stuff. It costs Billions of dollars to bring a drug to market or a device to market. They have to go through 10 years if not longer development before they can be used. Then if they change one thing the time frame starts over. That is also why generics of some medicine are not available in the US because they allow that company to get some of that money back before a generic takes over the market. Now I understand you don't want and untested product out there. But cut that time down. Loosen up some of the regulations so it doesn't cost so much. Again i understand this is a slippery slope because there needs to be checks and balances.

But again.... the bill did nothing to touch many of the issues that face our nation with health care.


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