# 1911 or Glock



## Gettinbirdy (Jun 15, 2006)

I'm going to be buying my first handgun pretty soon. I love the classic look of the different 1911 models. I also like the Glock and it's many accessories along with it's durability, etc. I think I'm pretty set on the 9mm calibur. I'm thinking of the 9mm because it seems that it's much easier and less costly to shoot. I'm only 160 lbs and don't want to have a sore wrist after a couple mags of shooting. My wife will also be using it as well.

The purpose of the gun will be #1 plinking, #2 home protection, and #3 for a sidearm while hunting and concealed carry (most likely in the future).

I'm looking to spend about $650 or less. Which gun should I choose and why? If I should get a Glock, which model. If the 1911 which brand/model? I'm a fan of the black color - no stainless please.


----------



## People (Jan 17, 2005)

You are asking the "Let's start a fight question." Both are good guns. Personally I say get the glock as it can be had in 9mm. As for the one to get I like the 19 but I would have to say go to the gun store and see how they fit your hands. You never know you may have to have that 45 any way. I do like the 9mm as it is so cheap to shoot. Yes the 45 can be cheap also but not for factory ammo.

If someone knows where I can get 45 on the cheap let me know. My 45 needs ammo


----------



## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

The only advice worth a darn is for you to find a way to shoot first, buy second. You dont know what you're gonna like untill you've shot them.

For what its worth though, my 140lb wife shoots my 1911 accurately, with ease. She loved the large caliber so much we went and found her a Taurus .45 compact


----------



## Danimal (Sep 9, 2005)

As Gun Owner said, shoot each one before buying.

As People said, get one that fits you (and your wife's hand).

Now for my .02... I really don't think you'd get sore wrists from shooting a few mags of .45. I've been shooting a .45 since I was about 10 years old with my dad. (And I didn't break the 150 lb mark until a few years ago and I'm 35 now, so I am not a large person). I personally like the .45 over the 9mm for the stopping power.

I think the 1911 based pistols are very easy to shoot, they point naturally and the recoil really isn't that bad. It's a slower recoil that a .40 or even some 9mms. Last summer I had a chance to shoot a Browning High Power in 9mm and my 1911 and was suprised that I FELT more recoil in the Browning. That was because of gun design. Last week I shot a Kahr .40 compact and it kicked more than my 1911

I know a lot of people are going to argue with me and say that with quality HP's the 9mm is almost as good. And they are right, my hunting partner is a former SEAL and is looking at either a 9mm or a .40. He said he is very comfortable with a 9mm as a carry gun based on "experience".

My brother bought a Kimber 1911, (I think the Ultra Compact II) with an alloy frame and stainless slide, 3.375 inch brl and I thought it was going to kick pretty bad compared to my full size. It really wasn't that bad. I was able to double tap rounds into a target almost as fast as mine. (Two 230 grain hydro-shoks should end a situation.......)

Now my best frnd from college carries a S&W 39 (9mm) because that is what feels good in his hands.

Bottom line,.... get what YOU like and feel comfortable with AND spend some range time!

Dan


----------



## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

1911 all the way, you don't want to own a piece of tactical tupperware . . . . . . do you? uke: You know glocks also have a reputation of turning into grenades?










Glocks will also crack if dropped on concrete.


----------



## Gettinbirdy (Jun 15, 2006)

I've also seen reports and demonstrations that prove they can be very strong and durable as well. Remy, I know you love the 1911, so which manufacturer/model should I choose? Remember I have to keep it under $650.

Why do so many law enforcement agencies use the Glock as their standard issue? I find it hard to believe they would choose a weapon that has a history, more than that of the average maufacturer, or malfunctioning and breaking easily.

I've seen reports and testimonials where people have abused their Glocks to no end and they still work like a charm.

I suppose you either love 'em or hate 'em.


----------



## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

> I suppose you either love 'em or hate 'em.


 Sums it up pretty good! 

To keep a 1911 under 650 look at the Springfield USGI and Springfield MIL-SPEC, I'm also partial to the Rock Island Armory 1911 the name bothers some people, but in my opinion they are comparable to a 7-800 dollar Springfield.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-GI.shtml

http://www.springfield-armory.com/prod-pstl-1911-ms.shtml

Take a look at this.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=7723382


----------



## Gettinbirdy (Jun 15, 2006)

All very good looking guns. I think I may be leaning towards the Glock!?


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

For years I carried a Smith & Wesson Model 645 in .45 ACP. I truly loved that Handgun and felt totally secure with it either on my side or in my waistband.

The last time I was on the firing line in Pierre South Dakota at the Law Enforcement Training Center there were 40 other shooters there. Out of that 40 shooters 32 were shooting Glocks of one Model or Caliber or another. We each shot 840 rounds during that week. I did have a couple problems with my Smith & Wesson, but in all that shooting I never did see a single one of the Glocks malfunction.

2 years ago I found a super deal on a used Glock Model 21 in .45 ACP. I talked to the dealer and we came to terms on a trade. Upon first firing my new to me Glock Model 21 I learned that there was something wrong with it and every time I shot it the slide locked open. I phoned Glock's customer service department and talked to a fellow named Fred. Fred told me that someone had evidently put a spring in backwards when they had had it apart and reassembled it. Fred told me he could walk me through the proceedure to fix it, but insisted that I tell him what the serial number is on my Model 21.

When I told him what the serial number was he insisted I return it to the factory for a upgrade. I sent it off to Glock and Fred had my Model 21 totally rebuilt to the point that the only parts they did not replace were the Frame, Slide and Barrel. They even lowered and flared the ejection port and totally refinished the slide. They installed new Sights on it for me (a steel front sight instead of the sight that comes with the Glocks from the factory), and even sent 3 extra recoil spring & guide rod assemblies with my Model 21.

The only cost to me for all of this was what it cost me to ship my Model 21 to Glock.

I fought the urge to buy a Glock cause I too did not want a tupperware pistol, and lets face facts they are not pretty at all. However my Model 21 has not missed a beat since it was returned to me and I generally put at least 500 rounds through it every year. The grip design / grip angle and the relationship of the grip to the centerline of the bore seem to compensate for the lighter weight of the gun in terms of recoil. This Model 21 weighs considerablly less than did my Smith & Wesson Model 645 (which is an all stainless-stell handgun) but I swear that the felt recoil is less with the Model 21.

You have recieved some good advice above in that you should handle and or shoot if possible the different handguns you are considering. Then buy the one that feels the absolute best in YOUR hands. If you have to constantly reposition your hand on the grip you are not going to shoot it as well as you would a Handgun that fits you better. In addition I belive that with the handgun that fits the best in your hands the felt recoil will also be somewhat reduced.

Good luck with your quest.

Larry


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

Both the 1911 and Glock patterns are good. If you can, handle and possibly shoot both a bit if you can. My hands are very thick as I work with my hands a lot, they tend to have a shape that requires a grip size that is somewhat smaller than the average. You can still shoot almost any sized grip frame handgun, but one that "fits" and points naturally for you is going to be the most useful to you. I have a Glock 19, 17, and 23, and like them all, but the 19 for some reason fits me the best. In the 1911's I have several chambered in 9mm, 38 super, and 45acp. The 45 is not a hard kicker, and you can lighten up a bit and shoot 185gr bullets for less recoil. Now for a gun that you will be using for protection in the house and plinking, woods bumming, ect get a full sized gun. Learn to shoot, and become comfortable with it. Now as far as a gun for concealed carry, this is a commitment. If you are going to carry a full sized gun, you need to put your whole life into it. If you use a inside the waist hoster, you will need all of you pants with a 1-2 inch larger size to account for the gun. A sholder hoster, good luck with having that on all day and not be flashing your gun all over the place. I have several full sized handguns, but because of how I dress and what I do, my carry guns are not full sized. I will at times carry very small sized 32acp, 380, and super compact 9mm. In the winter, when heavy clothing is not drawing unwanted attention, then I can carry something larger, but it still has to be on my person. A coat or vest that is removed and not in your control is not acceptable. Purchase what feels good in your hand, shoot often, and think if you really are committed to carry a concealed gun. Then think of how you will carry it.


----------



## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Glock all the way!!


----------



## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

> Glock all the way!!


 uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:

oke:


----------



## Chestnut (Aug 9, 2006)

Well, Glocks give you better value (more rounds, less weight) at the cost of beauty, recoil, and history. :2cents:

Personally, I love my Kel-Tec .380


----------



## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I know this is a little off topic but it pertains to Glocks. I read this article about one of the first Glocks brought in to this country. A cop bought it and wanted to write an article about how bad they were. He put something like 30,000 rds threw it and did not have a problem. He then decided to use it for duty. Apparently his department did not have a "Use this gun" rule. Well over the years he ended up doing several more endurance tests. At the time of the righting he has 175,000 down the tube. This article came out about year 2000. Has any one else seen that article?


----------



## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

Ok if you are carrying a pistol while you are hunting and intend on shooting say a deer with it remember that a 9mm isn't a legal cartridge to shoot at them in ND anyways. Remember to look at the game laws of what you might want to hunt with it so you don't get in a bind with the law at some point.

Now everyone has talked about Glocks and 1911's quite a bit and i know that you didn't mention Beretta but i have to put in my 2 cents as well. Two years ago i bought a Beretta 92 in 9mm (didn't realize i couldn't hunt with it at that time) and have put between 2000 and 3000 rounds through it and it has never ever missed a beat even once. Not so much as a jam or misfire or anything. I love this pistol and don't think I'll ever get rid of it. It is very accurate for me and has completely adjustable sights. I've been out with a buddy of mine shooting bottles before and could bounce a bottle a few times before he could get a shot off at it with his .22 semi auto rifle. Beretta just something to think about.


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

For what it's worth.....

A good 1911 (A1) isn't worth it until it comes back from the gunsmith.

Any gun will KaBoom under the same conditions. Care to share the story behind those Rem 7400?

Any of the big name guns, HK, Beretta, Glock, Colt, Kimber, SA would be worth getting.

As was pointed out, try to rent / Borrow and then buy.


----------



## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

First picture, Glock 19 9mm, was fed a steady diet of +P+ ammo, went KABOOM somewhere between rounds 4000 and 5000.

Second picture, fell from a officers holster and hit blacktop while trying to secure a suspect.

I used to have a picture of a Glock 22 that had been chewed up by a dog. Seems the K9 unit left one of their pistols in the back seat with the dog. :eyeroll:


----------



## Gettinbirdy (Jun 15, 2006)

I'm thinking of adding the HK USP .40 to my list of possibilities. What's the usual price of one of these and where can I get one in ND?


----------



## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Rem 7400 I know you saw the Glock torture test. Ware a guy did everythig he could "bad" to a Glock 21 and it still fired without a hitch. Remember he even threw it out of an airplane, and shot it with a 22 LR!


----------



## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

I remember that, no comment.


----------



## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

I guess we all have our favorites, and the debate continues. The original poster stated that Concealed Carry would also be one of the uses for the choosen handgun. I have had a Concealed Carry Permit since I was old enough to legally have one in South Dakota (35 years now) and have carried a lot of different firearms concealed over the years. I will say that I feel more confident and safe carrying my Glock Model 21 that any other handgun I have ever carreid in those 35 years. The newer Glocks (I don't know when the change was made but do know my Model 21 has had the upgrade) all now use a Firing Pin safety to prevent the Handgun from firing should it be dropped.

Larry


----------



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Remington 7400 said:


> > To keep a 1911 under 650 look at the Springfield USGI and Springfield MIL-SPEC, I'm also partial to the Rock Island Armory 1911 the name bothers some people, but in my opinion they are comparable to a 7-800 dollar Springfield.


I've also heard good things about the Rock Island Armory (Armscor) GI models. The name wouldn't bother me in the least! They're like $300 in one of the catalogs I get... figure $20 for next-day shipping and like $30 to get somebody to transfer it for you, and you've got a quality 1911 for $350 (I saw one for $400 locally). I frequent a couple of boards devoted to military guns, and the guys over there seem to love them. Some even say that they like 'em better than their Springfields!


----------



## clampdaddy (Aug 9, 2006)

Taurus is now makeing a 1911. They have a full page advertisement on the last page of thedecember issue of American Rifleman. They do a cost breakdown of what it would take to do a standard 1911 up with all of the features that their pistol comes with. They claim that it would take $2100 bucks to spiff up a standard 1911 or you can get thiers for $600. Sounds like one hell of a deal to me.


----------



## Gettinbirdy (Jun 15, 2006)

'Sounds' like a very good deal. I've heard that it's usually cheaper to buy a complete package gun but I doubt it would save you $1500. I could see saving a couple hundred but $1500 sounds a little outrageuos. If I did buy it I don't think I'd totally trust the quality and life of the product.

Does anyone have any opinions on the H&K brand of pistols? I'm thinking of buying a USP in .40 or 45 ACP. From what I can gather this brand is perhaps one of the higher end quality you can buy.


----------



## clampdaddy (Aug 9, 2006)

My bad, the $2100 figure had a $500 base mil-spec 1911 in there. So $500 for the gun plus $1600 worth of upgrades.
Taurus has a lifetime gaurantee on all of thier firearms :beer:


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Birdy, looks like no one is going to answer your question, so I will. I have a USP in .40 S&W and love it. I'm not a pistol guy, and rarely shoot 'em, but I can't think of anything about the gun, OR the cartridge that isn't close to ideal as far as semi-autos go. Magazine spring may be a little weak, but awful close to perfect as far as I'm concerned.

This thread will go on forever, since one thing pistol guys have in common with rifle guys is their passion for their particular brand.

Good luck!


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

H&K's tend to have a high bore axis which leads to muzzle flip. At least, that is how they feel for me when I shot the USP .40 and 9MM.

From talking with the reps and other people, their customer service leads much to be desired. They don't seem to like to work with civilians as they see themselves as a LE / Military focused business.


----------



## 45ball (Jan 21, 2007)

Start out with at Glock 17. After you feel comfortable with the 9mm rent a 1911 or other .45 cal pistol and shoot a few boxes through them. Once you have some trigger and range skills set in you can determine whether you want to move to a larger caliber pistol. You can sell the Glock 17 to pay for a .45 if need be. Both calibers can be useful, but IMHO the .45 round in close quarters can't be beat.

my blog
http://adoeb.blogspot.com/


----------



## 1911guy (Feb 24, 2007)

I purchased a Rock Island Armory 1911 a1 last summer and have ran in the neighborhood of 2500 rounds of various makes,wieghts and bullet types through it and have had NO problems with it, the finish is holding up superbly and the gun is accurate as hell. I highly recomend thes gun to anyone looking for a reliable bare bones 1911. I personally didn't like the mil spec sights so I replaced them with Millet hi-def sights. The gun came stock with a novak magazine :beer: . My friend has a Taurus PT1911 ain the parkerized finish and after only 1 month the finish is wearing off all sharp edges already, we can't figure out how to remove the firing pin due to the fireing pin safety that taurus decided would be a good idea. The taurus has all the bells though, heinni straight 8 sights, beavertail grip safety, SWEET trigger, ambidexterious safety, comes with 2 mags, and taurus is undoubtedly the best at warranty claims as my friend F*@#ed up his slide in a bad way with a screwdriver and a hammer trying to remove his firing pin :eyeroll: , taurus repaired the gun within 2 weeks and at no charge. I still like my RIA more though and its parts are generic 1911, not taurus specific. Shoot as many calibers and styles as you can beg or borrow so as to make an "informed" decision.


----------



## WoodstockDoug (Nov 30, 2006)

I have both a Glock 17 and a 1911 (Para Ordnance Companion.)

The Glock breaks down for cleaning, without any tools, in under a second. Grab the release, ease it down with one hand and the slide comes right off the frame. Goes back together even easier... just pop the slide back onto the frame and it locks back in place.

My 1911 requires a punch and some patience to get apart and reassemble. It isn't too hard, or complicated, but it isn't something I do for fun, either.

I have often put 2-300 rounds through my Glock in a single range session, and once I put almost 500 rounds through it in a single session (I had 3 nephews and a neice with me and they all took turns with it.) It fired perfectly every time.

My 1911 has never had more than 100 rounds through it in one session, and I simply wouldn't attempt to put 500 rounds through it without cleaning. Maybe I could, but I don't want to. The Glock will unquestionable take tons of abuse without cleaning and keep going bang. The 1911 is harder to take apart to clean, and needs it quite a bit more.

My 1911 takes a single stack magazine, 7 rounds. The Glock takes a double stack, 17 round magazine, but I also have 33 round magazines for it. Then again, I have seen a 75 round drum that fits into a 1911 -- just about the dumbest looking thing I have ever seen, but if capacity is all you care about, it does exist.

I know there are carbines that shoot .45 ACP, but I don't believe they will swap magazines with my 1911. I have a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 carbine that folds up to the size of my computer keyboard, but unfolds into a full size carbine that uses the same magazines as my Glock 17.

I love my Para -- it has the sweetest, smoothest trigger of any gun I own. But you do have to pull it to make it go bang. The Glock trigger is so light you can just about breathe on it and it'll fire. With the Glock, I will NEVER carry a round in the chamber, because I believe it would be so easy to fire that light trigger by accident.

The 1911 has a manual lever safety and a grip safety. The Glock only has a trigger safety, but with that light trigger, I don't consider it to be very safe. I don't trust safeties in general -- I believe that the only real safety is between your ears -- but I consider the 1911 to be inherently "safer" than the Glock in terms of accidental discharge. That hair trigger is just a little scary. I know I can install a New York trigger on the Glock, and increase the trigger pull to 8 pounds or so, and maybe I will, but for now it is what it is.

9mm ammo is currently running about $6 a box of 50 if you buy in bulk. .45 ACP is about $8 for a box in bulk. What that really means to me is that I can spend $8 on .45, go to the range, and be satisfied when I am done, or I can spend $12-$18 dollars on 9mm ammo. Loading up one 17 round magazine and one 33 round magazine for the Glock is an entire box of ammo, and I have enough magazines to load up over 200 rounds. I have 4 magazines for the 1911 -- 28 rounds.

A good 1911 is a beautiful thing. A good Glock is an amazing tool. Both have their purposes. If money was no object, I'd tell you to buy both. If you value looks and stopping power, I'll tell you to go with the 1911. If you want to throw a huge number of rounds down range, I'll tell you to go with the Glock.


----------



## 1911guy (Feb 24, 2007)

After reading the post from woodstockdoug one may be lead to think that the 1911 isn't capable of putting repetitive rounds down range. OK now i'm going to put an end to this right now. When the military was initially testing the 1911 design back in 1908(ish) they ran 10,000 rounds through a 1911 with no cleaning and only a 5 minute cooldown betwen each 100 round string....with only like 2 failure to eject issues through the whole test. I would be willing to bet that one may be hard pressed to find ANY firearm well designed enough to take this kind of BRUTAL punishment. Upon disassmbly there was only minor wear to the metal slide surfaces which were not lubricated except for an initial lube to begin the test. Please don't bash the 1911 if you don't really know what it is capable of. I'd trust my life to a 1911 anyday and I'd put mine up against a glock any day for sustained fire. :******:


----------



## People (Jan 17, 2005)

Not all 1911 are built to the same specs. Some are much better than others.  There is a writer that has put more than 175,000 threw his first generation G17.


----------



## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

Okay...

...I like the Glocks. Love them. And I also discovered I like the venerable 1911A1. I'm neutral, dammit.

First, forget about recoil being perfectly linked to caliber. I have a little featherweight .32 automatic that hurts like hell to shoot, because it weighs nothing. A 1911 is a lot of metal, and it really dampens the recoil of a .45.

Now for my recommendation...try out a decent entry-level 1911 in your price range, a Glock, and then step down to the sub-$400 Smith and Wesson M&P. Personally, out of all three, I would really go with the M&P. For a much more reasonable price, you get a nice balance of ergonomics, accuracy, and reliability. It also comes with an interchangeable backstrap system that helps the gun fit a wider variety of hands. Give it a whirl and pick whichever one you want--you'll be happier in the end, and if you really get into shooting, you'll probly end up buying all three eventually anyway.


----------



## rifle6 (Jan 7, 2007)

go handle as many as you can. 
i carry a S&W 6904 9mm. and love it. i'm on my second barrel and have changed the recoil spring. but it has well over 5000 rounds fired through it. as long as it is reasonably clean it has never failed me.

if you like glock then go for it.
i really don't care for them.

if your going for a 1911, id's say the kimber is at the top. it is a little pricey but you get what you pay for. the pro carry II is pretty small even for a 
1911.

so go fondle them all. and shoot the ones you can most ranges will have rentals for cheep to go shoot.


----------



## mpd110 (Mar 1, 2007)

In my opinion I would go with the glock. I have a Glock 22. which is a .40 cal. This is what I carry on duty and am allowed. If I had a choice I would carry the .45 cal glock is much smoother shooting than any of the other calibers.

One thing you have to look for is that what fits one person's hand won't fit or be comfortable in someone else's. People's hands are different sizes. Pick a gun that is comfortable to shoot.


----------



## 74cuda (Mar 15, 2007)

Glocks are very dependable, plus they are a good knock around tool that keeps going and going, without worrying about the scratches during normal use. If you are looking at the larger caliber, such as the 45, you should also look at the 45 GAP. I have one and like the caliber. I also have two HK's in 45, but like the GAP better.

Nothing is wrong with the SIG either...


----------



## Hardsell (Jan 29, 2007)

I think the most important thing is finding a pistol that feels good in your hands and that you can shoot accurately. If you can't hit your target, then everything else doesn't really matter. 
I shoot a Springfield .45 in Micro Compact and I love it. I'm only 115lbs, so I have fairly small hands. With my hand size, it really dictates what pistols are comfortable. I've owned a .45 Sig, .40 HK USP, and there are several glocks in my family. If I was going to shoot a .45, it would be the tried and true 1911 series. They feel great, shoot accurately, and are time proven. If I was going to shoot a .40, it would be the glock. They also fit very nicely. They are more affordable than your souped up 1911s, and are standard issue for many police departments. If I had to have one pistol, it would be the Springfield in .45. 
I think feel is the most important part though. Go to a gun shop with a range and you can try them out. That would be the best test that you can find. Everyone is going to have their preference, so it's better if you go find one that fits you.


----------

