# ND Deer Lottery - Why do they draw the way they do?



## szm69 (Apr 28, 2006)

I do not like the current way the lottery is set up.

Basically the overall lottery is broken down into 4 smaller drawings. If your first choice isn't there when you get drawn, you get your name thrown into the hat for the second choice drawing, etc. Also if you really want to hunt a Whitetail buck in one unit, but not get drawn for a doe in that unit, you have to basically forfeit the 2nd round of drawings by leaving it blank or putting buck down again.

2nd unit doesn't do crap unless you put a doe down as your choice, the odds that there are any bucks left by the 3rd round are pretty slim.

Why don't they have it set up so I can pick my "true" first and second choices? Also, why couldn't they just have one drawing and go right down your list - if you or the 1,987th person to be drawn and your first choice isn't there, just go to your 2nd choice, if that is there, award it, etc.

What are your opinions? Or do you have insight on why the do the drawing like the do?


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## holmsvc (Nov 26, 2003)

One of the guys I hunt with did draw a buck tag in his second choice unit and I also know another guy that did it last year.

Both were turned down in 2F2, but they got a buck in their second choice unit which was 2L(I think).

Also the system may not make as much sense right now with the huge number of deer. There was a time where if you sent in for a buck first choice that you may not be able to get a doe with your second choice because there were no tags left in the unit.


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## szm69 (Apr 28, 2006)

I am sure some people know "a guy" who got a buck on their 2nd unit choice, my point is, there isn't many buck tags left after the first 2 "rounds". Making your 2nd unit buck choices almost worthless.

I almost guarantee you won't draw a mule deer buck in the badlands it it is your 2nd Unit.


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Can you imagine if every person who wanted a buck tag, got one? The deer herd would take a serious plunge in quality, thats for sure. There simply are not enough decent bucks to go around and at the same time be able to keep a healthy herd.
I don't think we want to be like the SE US, where a buck is lucky to live past three years...


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## szm69 (Apr 28, 2006)

huntingdude16 said:


> Can you imagine if every person who wanted a buck tag, got one? The deer herd would take a serious plunge in quality, thats for sure. There simply are not enough decent bucks to go around and at the same time be able to keep a healthy herd.
> I don't think we want to be like the SE US, where a buck is lucky to live past three years...


You missed my point, I realize that there are only a certain number of buck tags.

Here is an example for you. This is hypethetical. Lets say I would like to try for the very popular mule deer buck tag in the badlands. Everybody knows that this is a tough tag to draw. So I put Mule Deer buck for my 1st choice, 1st unit. If I don't get drawn for that tag, I don't want to put time money and effort into hunting a doe or a whitetail buck in the badlands, (it is a long trip for me). So what do I put for my 2nd choice? I guess I will have to leave it blank because I would rather get a buck or a muley doe closer to home. So I forfeited my chance to get drawn in the 2nd drawing, so now by the 3rd drawing (2nd unit, first choice) there isn't any buck tags left at home either, so I don't get drawn at all.


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Thats the risk you take when putting in for a muley, plain and simple.


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## szm69 (Apr 28, 2006)

huntingdude, now you get it!

I totally agree with you, that is the risk you take putting in for a muley, but why does it have to be that way? Wouldn't it be nice if I could put muley in the badlands as my first overall choice, and a buck back at home for my second overall choice? Maybe for my 3rd choice I would like to go hunting a doe in a totally different unit with my buddy. Why do we have to have two picks tied to a single unit?

Why does there have to be risk involved in a lottery? The lottery is already putting chance into the equation.


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## H2OfowlND (Feb 10, 2003)

How about we flash back the the late 80's and early 90's when you were happy at times to just get a tag, regardless of sex. We are in a deer boom right now. Back then it was a whole different ball game. 80,000 tags for 75,000-80,000 hunters...you do the math. The only reason it is like it is now, is the surplus of the deer. If you want a guaranteed buck tag, start bow hunting.

H2OfowlND


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## holmsvc (Nov 26, 2003)

szm69 said:


> huntingdude, now you get it!
> 
> I totally agree with you, that is the risk you take putting in for a muley, but why does it have to be that way? Wouldn't it be nice if I could put muley in the badlands as my first overall choice, and a buck back at home for my second overall choice? Maybe for my 3rd choice I would like to go hunting a doe in a totally different unit with my buddy. Why do we have to have two picks tied to a single unit?
> 
> Why does there have to be risk involved in a lottery? The lottery is already putting chance into the equation.


What about the guy that just wants to hunt a buck in the unit you refer to as back home? I just don't understand your logic. Aren't those buck tags going to be gone anyway by the time they check peoples second choices?

If you don't like the way the lottery works now just think about what H20fowlND mentioned.


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## szm69 (Apr 28, 2006)

H2OfowlND and holmsvc,

I understand the concept that there are a limited amount of buck tags and that in the past and probably in the future the amount of buck tags avaliable will change, I also understand that you are not garanteed and never will be garanteed a buck tag...........

What I am saying is there is no reason to force you to apply for 2 different tags in your first unit before they look at your second unit.

I will try to draw you all a picture. That usually seems to help...

*Current Method*

Unit 2B
A (1st overall choice)
B (2nd Overall choice)

Unit 3F3 
A (3rd overall choice)
B (4th overall choice)

*The way it should work - IMO*

Unit 2B - A (1st overall choice)
Unit 3F1 - A (2nd Overall choice)
Unit 3AC - C (3rd overall choice)
Unit 3F1 - B (4th Overall Choice)

See the difference? Why limit your first 2 choices to 1 unit?
Nobody has given me a good reason as to why they force you to do this. 
Most of you are just assuming that I want to be garanteed a buck tag, that is not the case at all. My method wouldn't add more buck tags or increase your odds, it would just allow you to not have to throw your 2nd choice away if you only want to hunt one specific thing in that unit.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I'm certain it's set up as it is so a person has to make a choice and commit to a unit, and to make the lottery process as streamlined and painless as possible for NDGF.

I'm not real clear on why you think a third & forth choice would do any good, as all choices would almost certainly be for a buck tag. There are so many people putting in for them now that after the first draw, virtually all the buck tags have been issued in all units.

When there are still buck tags available in some units in the second draw there's no reason not to issue them. I bet it's mighty rare for a second choice draw to result in a buck tag though.

May not be workable, but I've wondered if there's a reason a mule buck tag couldn't be drawn as a separate special lottery similar to moose & elk, held before the usual deer lottery. If you failed to draw (as most would), you could still put in for whitetails as normal. tag numbers could be based on the prior year's kill numbers...


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## Ac_EsS (Jul 3, 2007)

sounds to me like you guys need a better deer management program. you have plenty of food, (ie the corn increase.) maybe looking more cover and maybe no deer hunting for a year or two in the state bring the deer pop. up. then go from there


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Deer we have in spades, tons of them. The carrying capacity of the habit statewide is at or exceeding it's limit (with the exception of mule deer in the western units).

We have unreal numbers of car/deer accidents. I live 10 miles out in the country, and driving to & from town to work every day is a deer obstacle course. I have a friend that, between he & his wife driving to/from work, have hit 6 deer so far this year!

NDGF never issues out all the doe tags that are allotted, there's a huge large surplus. Rather than reduce the price on these thousands of surplus tags, the cost remains $20. A person can essentially buy unlimited doe tags, but how many extra can be justified at $20 a pop?

Although we have good numbers of trophy sized bucks (my wife arrowed a 150" 5 point last year, I arrowed a 138" 4 point and took a mid 150's 6x7 with rifle), I have long advocated raising the resident buck tag to $50-$75 and reducing all doe tags to $10. I'm also in favor of letting does be taken on buck tags the last weekend of the rifle season.

As both buck & doe tags cost $20, many folks put in for bucks tags (often on party apps where the wife or kids who get the tags don't actually hunt or shoot the deer), then shoot whatever bucks they see if they draw.

Every season, the carcass bin here in DL is full of young buck heads, many of which could have grown to maturity/trophy class had they not been shot just to fill a tag.

If a person just wants meat or to shoot "a deer", better they take does. Too bad NDGF doesn't encourage this...


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## huntingdude16 (Jul 17, 2007)

Agreed.^ Well said.


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## Ac_EsS (Jul 3, 2007)

Well my only suggestion would be come up with a couple proposals on how you and some avid deer hunters feel it should be ran. Pettition isit, then when the division of wildlife meet report it to them and have numerous supporters with you. 
In Ohio at the begining of each year the ODNR has a metting and they cover the new regulations etc even listen to the public. Just a seggustion


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

I have always thought that raising the buck tag cost's would be a good idea also. It would for sure make the meat hunters think twice about applying for a buck tag. What really makes me sick are the guys who go out west and hunt openeing weekend and never go back if they dont kill a deer.

If they increased the muley tags to $200 a tag I would still pay it. And get rid of the NR rifle muley tags.


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## Ref (Jul 21, 2003)

Hey GB3, I've got to disagree with you about getting rid of the muley buck tags for NR. It took me 6 years to get my muley buck tag this year. My son will hopefully get his chance in his 7th year next summer. One percent of the tags going to NR's is already pretty tight.


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