# Shutdown..Who is to blame ?



## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Right now everyone seems be pointing the finger at each other... The truth is both sides have a part in this but I put this on congress and here is why.
Shutdowns are becoming more and more common. Why cant our politicians get their work done on time? I have come to the conclusion this is about leverage, both sides are guilty of it and its the American people that get hurt. This generally does not go well with the public and forces someone to give. Honestly I think it's time there is some penalty for congress not getting this budget and spending legislation done on time. I personally think Trump should have declared the shutdown an emergency and called congress into session through Christmas. Maybe they could have found a way to compromise and get something accomplish with their holiday at risk. The only way to stop this is to make it hurt for the politicians. If I was a federal employee I would be on the phone constantly pestering as many politicians as possible telling them to end this crap.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

All of the above plus the democrats voted for the wall with funding in the past. Now they simply angry they lost the presidency and want to get even. They will loose their mind when Trump appoints another judge.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Another TRUMP LIE.....The dummy came right out and said he would shoulder the blame period. On national TV in fact. uke: uke: uke: uke:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Trump on TV tonight......hope he has his clown makeup on. oke: oke:

Trump holding government employees hostage to get his wall money appropriated. Without that, Congress would pass budget in a heartbeat.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Last day on here for awhile.....going on a 2 week cruise with my wife. No internet. You guys are on your own since I'm the only one here on the other side. :thumb: :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

Enjoy the cruise.

But you cant argue with what Dakota stated how all of the shut downs are both parties problems or faults. Like he stated it is becoming a "norm" and that isn't right. In what other career field can you not do your job and shut a company down and still get paid, keep your job, and go on vacation? It doesn't make sense.

But yes this is Trumps to shoulder.... but he has also come up with compromise and some other things Dems wanted but not back up on the wall. Yet the Dems don't bring other solutions. The old "meet in the middle" isn't happening. So who is it starting to look like is to blame?? Just like other things Trump has tried to meet in the middle and have some give and take....but the Dem leadership isn't doing it. Again I am putting this on Pelosi and Shummer. Because I think they are the ones running the show and leaving some of the more moderate Dem's in the wake. Just the same goes for when Ryan was doing things and holding firm on stuff he was leaving moderate Rep's in his wake. :bop:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Where was the meet in the middle in 2016 and 2017? Republicans wouldn't even bring things to the floor to even talk about them much less vote on them. Like i said before......what goes around comes around. Even if that isn't what is best for the country. Even if we don't like it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ken I was a gov employee. I think we had one shutdown that went three weeks. I caught a lot of walleyes.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

The attitude of what comes around goes around is the problem. :beer:

A little side note for you and saying what comes around goes around and the Reps not doing a thing. There has only been one government shut down under Obama.... it happened in 2013 and lasted 16 days. There has been 3 under Trump!

So the Reps didn't hold the people hostage with a shut down. Which it seems the Dem's and the President are doing right now.

Shut Downs:


> 2018 (President Donald Trump): Dec. 22 to (ongoing)
> 2018 (President Donald Trump): Jan. 20 to Jan. 23 - 3 days
> 2018 (President Donald Trump): Feb. 9 - 1 day.
> 2013 (President Barack Obama): Oct. 1 to Oct. 17 - 16 days
> ...


https://www.thoughtco.com/government-sh ... ry-3368274


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I posted this also in another thread.

But I find it funny how Pelosi and Shummer already have a "counter" speech ready for Trumps speech he will be giving. Do they even know what he will be saying?

Now if they would give it a day later.... fine. But they want to air it right after he gives his speech. I find that interesting and also shows you how they really don't want to find common ground.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

And who are the two republicans that get to do post address commentary or get to counter Pelosi and Schumer ?.... Oh wait ..There aren't any. 


> But I find it funny how Pelosi and Shummer already have a "counter" speech ready for Trumps speech he will be giving. Do they even know what he will be saying?


You mean you don't think they have spies in the white house. LOL Wouldn't it be funny if he didn't talk about the wall at all and Pelosi and Schummer were left hanging?

FWIW I read today that a bill has been submitted that would cut off pay to our representatives if a shutdown occurs. Not that it will get anywhere. They should cut off pay and freeze all expense accounts that might get more attention.

Chuck thank you for posting that list but how many more times has it come down to the 11th hour. Way too many times. I'm as much talking about those times as the actual shutdowns. And like I mentioned, both sides are guilty.


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## Chuck S (Oct 1, 2018)

I totally agree that the "11th" hour ones as well shouldn't happen.

Like I mentioned name another industry, company, etc. Where the workers get to keep their jobs if a shut down occurs. Even in big corps. executives get fired if a shut down happens.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Well, if the government is functioning fine without these employees, fire them. Start cutting government spending, half would be a good starting point.

Who is to blame for the shut down? Its us, the people that voted these people into office. The government officials have an open checkbook that never needs to be balanced.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

The Dems keep saying that Trump won't negotiate but wasn't his original request for the wall something like 25 billion. I'd say 25 to just under 6 is quite a compromise..... Congress has thrown away money on things far less usefull... Give him the money .


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## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

It looks like the shutdown may have shut Fishingbuddy.com down too....Is this site next?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> The Dems keep saying that Trump won't negotiate but wasn't his original request for the wall something like 25 billion. I'd say 25 to just under 6 is quite a compromise..... Congress has thrown away money on things far less usefull... Give him the money .


Lets put it this way. the last meeting he point blankly asked Pelosi. "would you be willing to help fund the wall at a later date if I end the shut down now.".... She said "NO". So who is negotiating? Who is trying to make a deal? He didn't say total funding. He didn't say immediate funding. He said "in the future"..... so who is looking more and more not wanting to negotiate???

Again Trump said he will "shoulder" the blame for the shut down. But right now it looks like he is willing and trying to come to some terms. Yet the other side isn't budging.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

If you live and believe:

1. In a gated community.
2. With locks on your doors.
3. With body guards and security personnel with guns.
4. Had Latino slaves to do all your manual labor.
5. Held an disdain for the opposing party.
6. Felt supporters for opposing party/president and commoners where beneath you, toothless, backwards, stupid, despicable and not worthy of protection.
7. As a member of the elite class you need the votes of those you allowing to break laws in order to further your agenda.

Then you would support not securing our borders.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

north1 said:


> If you live and believe:
> 
> 1. In a gated community.
> 2. With locks on your doors.
> ...


 :thumb: :thumb:

Right now the shutdown is biting me a bit. The IRS requires a form that I can't get from OPM because OPM is shut down. Oh well hope the judge understands. Build the wall.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

This article shows that trump is reaching out to more Dem's to help end this shut down. Two declined so far to meet with him. One outright said no. The other has a scheduling conflict.

So who is showing they want to work with the other side and who is "stone*WALLING*".


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

More on that lunch meeting..... NO DEMS showed up to talk about the shut down.

So who is the one to blame as of now???

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democr ... eeting.amp



> "The President has a proposal on the table that includes additional technology at ports of entry, allows minors from Central America to seek asylum in their home country, and physical barriers between ports of entry made of steel instead of concrete," she said. "Today, the President offered both Democrats and Republicans the chance to meet for lunch at the White House. Unfortunately, no Democrats will attend. The President looks forward to having a working lunch with House Republicans to solve the border crisis and reopen the government.
> 
> "It's time for the Democrats to come to the table and make a deal."


Look at what he is offering. Additional Tech which they wanted, minors to seek asylum in the home country (they don't have to travel and be subjected to the dehydration, starvation, rape, abuse, etc)&#8230;. all he wants is help with funding a "wall".

Again... who seems to be grandstanding and not willing to negotiate????


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Pelosi cancels the "state of the union" speech. Her reasoning is that the Secret Service people and the shut down cant handle it. Do you think that the Secret Service hasn't been planning this presidential trip for more than 26 days? They just don't plan things and trips willy nilly&#8230;.. :eyeroll:

HMMMMM.... who is playing politics. Which side in all honesty is looking more and more like they are grandstanding?? I agree both sides are to blame. But right now Trump is making concessions, inviting people to talk, etc. Yet some refuse to meet or even negotiate.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So I find it funny yet very poor taste in what Trump did today. The letter to Pelosi saying the "her trip is cancelled" on the government dime because of the shut down.

But at the end of the letter he did say that we should meet to work something out. But the rest is sophomoric BS. Just like Pelosi calling for Cancelling the SOTU address.

Also I read on twitter... not sure if it is correct or not... but some how the State Department all of a sudden found money to pay people for this pay period.... but wont be able to pay for the Feb. 14th or something like that pay check. Interesting how they all of a sudden "find" money. Shows you the waste in our government. That isn't a Dems vs Reps thing. It is just showing you government waste or lack of accounting!!! Remember the 1000 toilet seats and $100 hammers. BTW also read on twitter that on the plane for Pelosi's trips from CA to Washington that her "booze" allowance is $1000 per week.... so $52,000 a year... roughly. Again don't know if that is true or not. But shows you the "waste" type crap our taxes pay for.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Each week the government is shut down, they should eliminate permanently 5000 jobs forever. That way we can save money, besides most of those jobs aren't need and could be done in the private sector.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Chuck Smith said:


> So I find it funny yet very poor taste in what Trump did today. The letter to Pelosi saying the "her trip is cancelled" on the government dime because of the shut down.
> 
> But at the end of the letter he did say that we should meet to work something out. But the rest is sophomoric BS. Just like Pelosi calling for Cancelling the SOTU address.
> 
> Also I read on twitter... not sure if it is correct or not... but some how the State Department all of a sudden found money to pay people for this pay period.... but wont be able to pay for the Feb. 14th or something like that pay check. Interesting how they all of a sudden "find" money. Shows you the waste in our government. That isn't a Dems vs Reps thing. It is just showing you government waste or lack of accounting!!! Remember the 1000 toilet seats and $100 hammers. BTW also read on twitter that on the plane for Pelosi's trips from CA to Washington that her "booze" allowance is $1000 per week.... so $52,000 a year... roughly. Again don't know if that is true or not. But shows you the "waste" type crap our taxes pay for.


I don't find it in poor taste at all, in fact I applaud what he said in that letter. And he did say that it would be rescheduled when the shutdown is over. Why should she be allowed to spend Government funds on an unnecessary trip overseas while Government employees are being unpaid. And just who is paying the people who have to fly her over there and provide security while she is there as well as attend to her every whim.

He has tried to come to a compromise and they refuse to talk to him, that is sophomoric BS.

For those who haven't seen it, here's the letter.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

That is absolutely priceless!!
I bet she is spitting nails right now! :rollin:


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Gosh. Sometimes I can be miffed by his demeanor but in the scheme of things and after reading that I am assured I made the right choice when I placed a check by his name.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

From here, it is clear that Trump is either a criminal or an idiot. 
Unbelievable what the USA has now become in the eyes of the world.
Canuck


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Why? Because he wants to build a wall on our southern border to keep out the illegal immigrants who murder, rape and rob our citizens, who burden our welfare system, who vote illegally in our elections?

From here it looks like he wants to protect this country and her citizens.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Nothing to do with a wall or immigration. Most of the world is having to deal with that issue.

At a minimum, Trump appears to be involved in witness tampering, obstruction of justice, and treason. So he is either culpable or an ignorant (of the law) person, and as such is totally unqualified for the job of President.

He threw Canada under the bus with the whole Huawei thing. He treats Russia, North Korea and China the way he should treat his allies. He lies about everything and is a despicable person. Surely your Country can do better.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

You see him this way, a good share of the American people do not.

Could we have done better? Sure. But in 2016, he was by far a better option than our other choice.

And if the Dems run her, or the fake Native American in 2020, he'll be our President again.

Canada and the rest of the world have been throwing America under the bus for years. It's nice to worry about other countries and to provide aid, but this country and her citizens have to come first, it's nice to know that we have a President who puts us first and the rest of the world second.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck...

How much of what you are seeing is from CNN??? How much of you are seeing is from the media?

What I am getting at is that about once a week it seems CNN or some other left leaning media source comes out with a "bombshell" or something to make the president look like a criminal. But then the next week it is found out to be FALSE. Yet those same news sources don't do a "retraction" or anything to right their wrong reporting.

Like I have mentioned many times..... people need to get there news source from many different outlets and then make their own conclusion on things. Because the media now is so screwed up it isn't even funny.

Lets put it this way.... I read something yesterday about the missing WI girl. In the article 3 named people mentioned the kidnapper never had a girlfriend... but then an "anonymous" source found a "girlfriend" and she didn't want to give her name yet gave an interview. I am not saying this is false... but I honestly question it. Because everyone else was painting the kidnapper as a loner, kept quiet and to himself, his grandparents in the interview never mentioned a girlfriend and said he was more into video games than socializing with people. Yet the "girlfriend" said things like... he was mean to her, had a temper, snapped at her, liked to find road kill and "stuff" them himself, and Road kill animal/taxidermy was all over his house. Yet the grandparents didn't say a thing about any of this. As a journalist... would you think you would have asked the grandparents these questions or did a "re-interview" and asked them some questions about what the girl friend said. Anyways... I know that is off topic... but shows you how journalism is today and the faith or trust in them is weak. :bop:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

A good point Mr. Smith.

I do try to get my news from a range of sources but admit that I do not get FOX News or read the National Enquirer.
I try to rely on the video the sources provide and try to rely on the words that seem to come out of the mouths of the President and his people.

You are right the news comes out one week then changes the next. So do the words from Trump's mouth. So do the words of his Lawyer Guilliani...No collusion, changed to no evidence of collusion, then to collusion is not a crime, and now the word is "the President did not commit collusion but his campaign may have". Same with the payoffs to his ladies. Same with the question of obstruction of justice. Same with Russia, same with Kishoggi, same with the NK nuclear threat, etc. etc. etc.

But hey, all Trump and his people like Guilliani have to do, even though there is plenty of un-doctored video to the contrary, is say "I never said that" and his base believes him. Even if none of this is as it seems it sure does look bad from here. I suspect and it appears (on CNN :rollin: ) that Trump is going down.

As he says "I guess we will see what happens".


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

It's amazing how many people think they are informed and don't watch FOX news. Most of the other channels suppress much of the news. I would guess some of the people in Canada and Mexico are miffed about the new trade deals. It's good to be friends but for years we have been the sucker.

I laugh when people think Trump is an idiot. You can look at him as an idiot after your second billion dollars. i can see the strategy in Trumps cancelling Pelosi's trip. I would estimate only about ten percent of the people were aware Pelosi cancelled the state of the union. She said something about it being a security problem. Her trip with other democrats posed a much more security risk and she was off on a trip doing what? The media will go nuts that the president cancelled her trip, but the coverage in the media made many more people aware of Pelosi's little political stunt. Then they become aware that she is running around the planet while people are without work. We are to think Pelosi cares about the federal workers. She cares about no one but herself.
.
I talked with a cousin in British Columbia yesterday and you have my sympathy canuck. Day after day your freedoms are lost in Canada. He said if a police thinks you may have been drinking and drove in the past two hours he may enter your home and give you a breathalizer test. Didn't have to see you drive or drink. What if you got home two hours ago and had a couple shots of something an hour after that. Then our church talks about Canada and if you say anything anti gay in public it's a hate crime. Don't worry to much about Trump when Canada is fast becoming one of those crap hole countries and Pelosi would like to make the United States the same.

Please excuse all the misspelling and punctuation. Bought a new computer and it's driving me bonkers. I can be typing right along an all of a sudden I am typing in the previous paragraph. I get back to where I want and a paragraph gets deleted. This should have taken two minutes and I have typed everything at least five times and it's taken ten minutes. What a $700 piece of crap.

Edit: Pelosi cancelled the state of the union because she didn't want Trump telling America how little 5.7 billion is in the budget, and how little the democrats care about the lives of those in the caravans. The democrats simply want votes from illegal immigrants because there are not enough actual citizens who agree with them.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Misinformed or uninformed goes both ways apparently. In this ****hole country called Canada, if you crash your automobile, you can not start getting drunk until two hours after the accident. Seems some try to avoid a drunk driving charge by crashing their vehicle then sitting by the side of the road and having ten drinks to "calm their nerves" and then claiming they had not been drunk at the time of the accident, just got that way calming my nerves officer. So the new law was enacted to give police the right to test people up to two hours after an incident occurred. The new law did not really affect my behavior as I already do not drink and drive in any event.

As far as being stuck in a ****hole country, like your leader says I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens. Sorry if you don't like how we do things here. Just because someone says has a couple billion, I'm not going to let him grab me by the you know. Seems that makes someone a big deal in some circles.

Can you name three big changes to the Canada/USA part of the old NAFTA agreement?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The "drinking" thing that both of you are talking about...

Sad part is that is true. Lets say you have been drinking and driving. You crash your car... if you slam down a few pulls off a bottle. The police cant tell or say that you were drunk at the time of the crash. If they give you a BAC... was it the drinks you just took or the drinks you had 1 hour before the crash... So it is a "loophole" that some will try to use to get out. But the coming into your home, etc.... that isn't a good thing at all. :beer:

On the "collusion" thing and you saying Gulliani flip flopping. From day 1 he has stated that "collusion isn't a crime". It has been in the news since day 1 with gulliani. You want to talk about the "pay off".... Remember there was a NONE DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT. Which those mean neither party talks about it. So do you think he was trying to keep his end of the that agreement???

It is funny how people knock his forgein policy... and today it is coming out that China wants to buy a bunch of US goods in return for lifting some tariffs.... interesting isn't it. :beer: 
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/ ... id=DELLDHP


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't care how you cut it calling what someone says hate speech is sort of wussy, but making it a crime is total wussy. You have to be missing the Y chromosome to pull that crap.

Edit: The FBI report said long ago there was no collusion. Every day there is more made up bs.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Canuck are you watching FOX tonight? The latest big scoup from buzzfeed about Trump instructing Cohen to lie about his tower that he was going to build in Russia, or some such bs -------- Muhler got into the act and said it was absolutely not true. So another lie. Give up this silliness and get more informed.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

This whole charade that has been going on since the 2016 election is so unbelievable and maddening it gets to the point where words become difficult to explain it. How can anyone in their right mind not see the concerted effort to take down an elected official by an opposing political party and Republican entrenched insiders? Time after time after time allegations get proved false and blown out of the water. Someone"Trump" is not made of Teflon when what is being thrown at them are blanks. When 100% of everything you here is negative to one specific person(Trump). How can that not be as obvious as the nose on your face? How can someone, anyone be that biased? How can common sense be turned on it's head and people believe nonsense? Over and over and over again. It's like trying to destroy someone because they are trying to protect you. Oh wait, that's happening too.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Plainsman, as I said I don't get FOX news and I don't really watch much American TV. The CBC is reporting that Mueller says the BuzzFeed report is "somewhat inaccurate" not a complete fabrication as you say. Again, we will just have to wait and see what happens. I wish, for all of our sakes that this whole political fiasco ends soon.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Canuck I am sorry you don't get FOX. Can you get FOX New on your internet? It's surprising how much news is withheld from us. Even as bad as the false news is the news that is suppressed. It's as if the world has gone insane, not only the USA. France, Germany, England etc. They keep going and they will be Islamic nations within 30 years. I will not be around to see how these empty heded young people who want to live off the toil of others like sharia law.

Since the reporter that broke the story had no information whatsoever I'm guessing (guessing but looking at past experience)that this will turn out to be a total fabrication.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Trump offers another compromise and the Dems refuse, again. It's pretty clear who is to blame.

Saw this on another site, kind of like the analogy.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

If our representatives cannot come together and vote to protect our borders we, that is the United States of America is lost. Done. Toast. Throughout history those countries that have failed to do so have crumbled. Either by the military force of said foreign invaders or monitarily via the inability to continue to provide basic services to its citizenry. You simply run out of other people's money and the monitary system fails printing too much of its own. History, apparently has not taught us much. Oh well, it was a good ride.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I look at these people coming over the boarder as common thieves. Californians leave thier state because they ruined it by their votes. Now they move like pestilence and come to our states and the fools vote the same. 
Our country is being invaded and also attacked from within by people like Obama and Hillary, and businesses like Google and Facebook. If you want to see how stupid liberals are watch interviews by Mark Dice on you tube. Facebook banned him and you tube has already warned him and banned many reloading videos.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I'm back.What compromise???????He still wants his 5 billion. He isn't compromising anything. And no matter how you sugar coat it....the American people still think he is at fault.

And far as being stupid....I can argue that those far right Conservative Neo Nazis, KKK, and skin heads are A LOT worse than any on the left. :sniper:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

KEN W said:


> I'm back.What compromise???????He still wants his 5 billion. He isn't compromising anything. And no matter how you sugar coat it....the American people still think he is at fault.
> 
> And far as being stupid....I can argue that those far right Conservative Neo Nazis, KKK, and skin heads are A LOT worse than any on the left. :sniper:





> President Trump, in a televised White House address Saturday, offered Democrats a compromise package on immigration in an effort to end the nearly monthlong partial government shutdown -- although some prominent Democrats were dismissing the olive branch as a "non-starter" before Trump even spoke.
> Trump announced that he was prepared to back a three-year extension of protections for 700,000 immigrants who came to the country illegally as children and were shielded from deportation under the Obama-era Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. This, in exchange for the $5.7 billion he has requested for a barrier on the southern border with Mexico.
> 
> It would allocate $800 million for drug detection technology to secure ports of entry, 2,750 new border agents and law enforcement professionals, and 75 new immigration judges to reduce an immense backlog of asylum requests.
> ...


Looks like a reasonable offer to me, especially when you consider that both Pelosi and Schumer supported similar legislation in the past. There is only one reason they resist any type of proposal, they hate President Trump and they don't give a damn about what happens to this country, all they care about is defeating anything that Trump proposes.

Here's another article that contains quotes from Obama, Pelosi and Schumer, before Trump became President. Rather enlightening that back then they took a hard line on illegal immigration, but now it's wrong to do so. And what has changed, Trump is President, that's it.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democr ... ng-caravan


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> What compromise???????


 Ken did you fall of your surfboard on your head??? :rollin: He is giving them something they want in return he expects something he wants. My gosh this is simple. Come on now you have the hate blinders on to tight.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

Welcome back Ken, hope you had an awesome vacation!
Trump is making offers, which is negotiating. Demoncrats are dug in and not bending at all. 
Public perception is changing each time the demoncraps refuse to negotiate!
They are reminding America just how much they are a bunch of hypocritical, whining, crying little biitches!!! :eyeroll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

speckline said:


> Welcome back Ken, hope you had an awesome vacation!
> Trump is making offers, which is negotiating. Demoncrats are dug in and not bending at all.
> Public perception is changing each time the demoncraps refuse to negotiate!
> They are reminding America just how much they are a bunch of hypocritical, whining, crying little biitches!!! :eyeroll:


Hypocrite, whiner, crying, a jerk. liar, exaggerator, 2 faced, criminal......sounds like your hero....the walking dead guy in the White House.

Oh.....and we had a great cruise.....especially zip lining through the jungle at 50 mph in Costa Rica. :beer: :beer:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

> Hypocrite, whiner, crying, a jerk. liar, exaggerator, 2 faced, criminal......sounds like your hero....the walking dead guy in the White House.


Naw, that guy left 2 years ago. Also known as president stompy feet.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I forgot liar, sleazeball, adulterer, liar, sexual predator, did I mention his long nose like Pinocchio.

But then the far right doesn't care about all that. Like he said....." I could shoot someone on 5th Ave and the right doesn't care." uke: uke: uke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ken watch Mark Dice or louder with Crowder. The point they make is when liberals leave the reason reservation and have no argument the first name they call people is racist, sexist next etc. Watch on FOX or the Five or any of the programs that have both conservatives and liberals on as panel or guests. Why are the liberals rude and will not let anyone else speak? Why do they interrupt when they have a turn, but will not let the next person speak. 
Trump is giving and the democrats are not. At first I mentioned it was the fault of both. Each time Trump gives it is less his fault, and each time the democrats dig in it is more their fault. Come on now Ken don't go off the rails you know better.

I am happy you had a great vacation. I also wish you were not having as miserable of a time as we did when Obama was in. To tell the truth I often think your simply having fun creating traffic on the site. That's ok with me if you are. All is good. :thumb: We could really get it going with a religious section. We could talk about the satanic serving ELCA.

Hunt1 I will always remember Obama as the apology tour president. I have already passed that on to my grandkids so the liberals can't lie to them in the history books. Public education has become a scourge. Especially in politics, social studies, and biology where they would hang you for teaching creation rather than their adult fairy tale about evolution.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

I remember him whining whenever he didn't get his way. And being on the golf course more than in the White House. I also remember him restricting the press far more than any other President including Trump.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman.....yeah.....Got to even out the political scene here. There is always 2 sides to everything. I really do think electing Trump was a big mistake. I think he will be impeached or just give up with all the turmoil. And not run for a second term. He basically won't accomplish a darn thing other than appointing conservatives to federal courts. And that is HUGE.

We had a good cruise. Good entertainment and food. Plus 12 days of wearing shorts and tea shirts. Loved the zip line in Costa Rica Also got to see the Panama Canal. We already have another cruise booked for next January. This was our 5th cruise.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Plainsman.....yeah.....Got to even out the political scene here. There is always 2 sides to everything. I really do think electing Trump was a big mistake. I think he will be impeached or just give up with all the turmoil. And not run for a second term. He basically won't accomplish a darn thing other than appointing conservatives to federal courts. And that is HUGE.
> 
> We had a good cruise. Good entertainment and food. Plus 12 days of wearing shorts and tea shirts. Loved the zip line in Costa Rica Also got to see the Panama Canal. We already have another cruise booked for next January. This was our 5th cruise.


We did a cruise for out 25th anniversary. Wow that was 23 or 24 years ago. About ten years ago we did the inside passage to Alaska. After that I'm spending my bucks for Alaska. I enjoyed the island and South America cruise too, but Alaska was better. For some reason the soldiers checking us out in Venezuela sure stared at me when we boarded ship. Maybe they read my nodakoutdoors anti socialist posts. :rollin:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Notice this guy says give Trump the money because were going to build the wall sometime anyway. So what's this about anyway simply a Nancy temper tantrum because Hillary isn't in the whtehouse? This answers the question about who is to blame. It falls on Pelosi.



> "Give Trump the money," Rep. Collin Peterson, a centrist Democrat from a red Minnesota district, told a local radio station Tuesday. "I'd give him the whole thing&#8230;and put strings on it so you make sure he puts the wall where it needs to be. Why are we fighting over this? We're going to build that wall anyway, at some time."


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Yup, Trump is definitely to blame for the government workers not being paid. :roll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

EVERY single poll I have seen says Americans blame Trump for the shutdown. Google...."Who is to blame for government shutdown." ALL OF THEM blame Trump.

His approval rating has dropped into the 30 some percent range.

You can candy coat it all you want....Tiny Trump is to blame for the shutdown not Democrats. :sniper: :sniper:

Also.....why did Trump tell the world's terrorists that the number 2 person in line to our presidency was taking a trip to Afghanistan???? So they could shoot down the plane?????

He also said he should do it so she would stay and negotiate an end to the shutdown. What about his secret trip to Irag during the shutdown!!!! I GUESS THE SAME RULES DON'T APPLY TO HIM. What a lying jerk. :sniper:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Your reading and listening to leftist propaganda Ken. A nuumber of democrats have written a letter to Pelosi and told her to give Trump the money. Also you can read posts from democrats right next door in Minnesota that say give him all the money because soon we will build the fence anyway. Don't forget the democrats including Obama were all for this just a few short years ago. This is just a childish temper tantrum on the left.

Perhaps some of what I read is right propaganda too, but at least I admit it andI am seeing both sides. You need to try more sources Ken.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I am not looking at leftist information sites.....Google, Ask, and Yahoo. All say it is Trumps fault. How many more do you want??

Even the Fox News polls says Americans blame Trump. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

They all say opening the government is A LOT more important than his stupid wall that was supposed to be paid for by Mexico.....what a lie. uke: uke:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

All extremely left leaning, and like you all have a rabid hatred of anything to do with our President.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken,

I don't disagree with you on Polls.... but didn't many polls have Hillary winning in a landslide.... :beer: oke:

But things are coming to light. Just like what has been posted.... especially the "Crenshaw" tweet. It shows how "party lines" are more important than doing what is right. It is showing me that our government is failing us. Lets look at that tweet by Crenshaw.... the Reps are going "against trump" to give out $$$$ with out the "wall"..... but only 6 dems voted for it! So which side is now failing and not trying to work on opening the government.

Like I have stated time and time again. No matter what political party you belong to you are in the minority. 40% of the USA identifies with Dems, 40% identifies with Rep, 20% is independent or middle of the road.... So that puts you if you vote party lines in the minority by 60%!!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I am not looking at leftist information sites.....Google, Ask, etc Yahoo. All say it is Trumps fault. How many more do you want??


 :rollin: Like I said leftist propaganda sites.
Did you see leftist Tom Brocha today? He puts the blame squarely on ------------wait for it----------Nancy Pelosi, and he is disappointed in the new young leftist democrats who are actually doing nothing but holding pep rallies like junior high girls. :rollin:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

huntin1 said:


> All extremely left leaning, and like you all have a rabid hatred of anything to do with our President.


You are really saying that Fox News is leftist leaning and has rabid hatred for anything to do with Trump???? :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> > I am not looking at leftist information sites.....Google, Ask, etc Yahoo. All say it is Trumps fault. How many more do you want??
> 
> 
> :rollin: Like I said leftist propaganda sites.
> Did you see leftist Tom Brocha today? He puts the blame squarely on ------------wait for it----------Nancy Pelosi, and he is disappointed in the new young leftist democrats who are actually doing nothing but holding pep rallies like junior high girls. :rollin:


Talk is cheap.......Then give me some right leaning internet search engines so I can ask what polls are saying about whose fault the shutdown is. :huh: :huh:


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

huntin1 said:


> Yup, Trump is definitely to blame for the government workers not being paid. :roll:


Here you go Ken. This is why the dumbo's are to blame. See the image. It's all about the politics to them. They don't give a rats arse about their so-called hostages!! :down:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

KEN W said:


> huntin1 said:
> 
> 
> > All extremely left leaning, and like you all have a rabid hatred of anything to do with our President.
> ...


I figured you'd jump on that. When I posted that the only thing that was in your post was this:



> I am not looking at leftist information sites.....Google, Ask, and Yahoo. All say it is Trumps fault. How many more do you want??


So, either you edited your post, or there is something screwy with my phone. You do know those guys skew their polls, right? oke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> You do know those guys skew their polls, right? oke:


 Not simply left leaning either. Who makes that Alexa? I watched this Utube video where people unboxed Alexa and got it connected. Then they asked Alexa who is Jesus Christ? Alexa said "a fictional character". Then they asked Alexa who is Mohammed? Alexa went into a long flowery description about Mohammed. I'm not sure I buy that yet, but I'm going to check out my granddaughters Alexa.

Ken do us a favor. Tonight I am sure you would like FOX. At I think 8:00 pm they will be on the border interviewing people. This morning they were in a dinner interviewing people 200 miles from the border. One rancher and his wife talked about how they liked and respected those with green cards ten years ago, who would come and work then go home. Now they said they have been driven from their home at times and sat in their pickup with guns at the ready while they took what they wanted especially drugs from their medicine cabinet. A local Hispanic contractor is angry about them driving wages down for them


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

huntin1 said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> > huntin1 said:
> ...


I did not edit my post. It is as I put it up with no editing. I looked at Fox news polls at the same time as all the others.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I will record Fox at 8:00 tonight. But Fox can show whoever they want to show to agree with their viewpoint. You guys say all the media it left leaning. I can say exactly the same for all the right leaning news outlets. No difference. One sided view showing whatever or who ever agrees with them.

It doesn't make you right and me wrong......Just different viewpoint. I see Trump as a terrible president. You don't. We are just different. And the majority of Americans agree with me that the gov't shutdown is Trumps fault. :thumb:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

So it looks like the noose is tightening with the Roger Stone arrest today.

Trump surrounded himself with criminals and unsavory characters. As the layers get peeled away it does appear that Trump is likely also a criminal and/or an unsavory character. Of course, Trump will say he did not really know Stone and Stone did not have much to do with the campaign. Just got coffee every now and then.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Canuck said:


> So it looks like the noose is tightening with the Roger Stone arrest today.
> 
> Trump surrounded himself with criminals and unsavory characters. As the layers get peeled away it does appear that Trump is likely also a criminal and/or an unsavory character. Of course, Trump will say he did not really know Stone and Stone did not have much to do with the campaign. Just got coffee every now and then.
> 
> There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.


Right on point. Can't say it any better. Just watch the lemmings march over the cliff. :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Ken it would sadden me to see that. 
I hope the USA regains her composure and dignity.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

If you guys look a the charges. Most of the stuff happened before they were with Trump. Stones stuff has nothing to do with the "Russian" probe. So again

It has to do with the WIKILEAKS and lying about it. They have come out that it isn't about "Russia". So again we need to see what exactly comes of this. But as of right now... It is the same BS smoking gun crap that hasn't amounted to squat.

But on the shutdown.... Looks like trump is caving in. A tentative deal is supposed to be reached with out "wall" funding. So we will see what these details are shortly.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Shutdown ends for 3 weeks. Far right base is not happy. They feel Trump stabbed the base in the heart. To bad. This will start all over again in 3 weeks. Could have had this 34 days ago.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

Correct! Nothing really changed. But lots of things I have seen on twitter with right leaning people (Ben S, Chuck Wolery, Dan B, etc.) are all now back pedaling saying Trump doesn't "cave" he repositions... Well I say he caved... LOL And I am not "far right leaning".... I am honestly more middle than anything (even though my threads on here indicate :beer: )

But Nothing got done and we will have a repeat of this after the 3 weeks. It is a stupid cycle of our politics and our elected leaders not doing their jobs... ie: funding and over spending. It is more budgeting than anything. Like how many times was the "debt" ceiling raised to avoid shut downs. To many times. :beer:

edit:
The shutdown people want to talk about it is a "wall" issue. But actually it is our leaders (all of them) not getting budgeting under control.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

He caved.....government should not shut down because the president throws a temper tantrum. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> He caved.....government should not shut down because the president throws a temper tantrum. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


 I think he did it to show the public Pelosi isn't serious. All she promised is to talk. If she doesn't seriously give a little I hope he shuts them down in six weeks and leaves it until ----- June would be good. Maybe the democrats will throw Pelosi out by then.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

Yup, he did.
The dum dums better negotiate this time instead of their hypocritical obstructing, or..... I think he will just go around them with executive privilege!! :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> I think he will just go around them with executive privilege!


I hope he doesn't do this. Because it would be showing "precedence" which could be scary if Bernie or someone like that gets into office.

Ken...

The government shut down because Congress cant do its job! Yes Trump didn't sign any "temporary" bills and wanted the wall.

Remember the almost "shut down" back in Nov (or when ever it was) he said.... next bill needs to have long term funding and money for my wall.... and what go done... NOTHING!!! They didn't get a long term deal done and didn't even discuss his "wall" funding. So nothing got done in Congress. Again I am pointing a finger at Reps and Dems. :bop:

That is why the shut down happened. Just like in about 2 weeks it will happen again if they don't do a thing. everyone is focusing on the wall.... because it is what Trump is blowing up about, but it is actual the failure of Congress to pass funding and spending bills. They cant balance a budget.

I was watching Fox yesterday and I cant remember the Dem that was on and he made a great comment. he said that if a bill doesn't get passed come this next dead line that every member of Congress shouldn't get paid during a "shutdown". He then said, "watch what would get done in congress!" So it just shows you that all of them... ALL are not working for the people.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I truly believe in Trump derangement syndrome. We here in the center of the nation listen to dozens of stories from both sides really don't know if Stone is innocent or guilty. If your that sure your partisan and only listen to the stories that support what you want to be true. Muhler is far beyond Russian collusion which the FBI has already said didn't happen. Now they are looking for any damage they can do. This is a campaign of hate. The venom the swamp is spewing many think is gospel.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> I truly believe in Trump derangement syndrome


I do too. especially if you watch Crowder and his "change my mind" stuff. You can see how brainwashed these kids on campus plus grown adults are.

Anything that "Trump" does is evil. I honestly think if Trump came out and said, "my team has found away to cure cancer, end poverty, and not cost the tax payers a dime"..... The left and media would go nuts trying to find a conspiracy.

I mean they call Trump "racist" and anyone who supports any of his idea's as "racist". Yet it hasn't come out at all that he is racist. Just because people claim he said, "Mexicans are rapists, murderer's, etc". Which he didn't say... he said, "MS13 gang members". But the media and everyone ran with "Mexican". Now he is racist. Yet when listening to the whole interview or sound clip he described instances. But people point right to "race". Anyways... another topic and what not. But shows you how one side of the coin points to "racist" yet the other side doesn't do that.

edit:

Here is an article out now showing how some Dem's voted for a "wall" previous but now that Trump wants it that it is "bad"

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/factcheck ... id=DELLDHP



> In 2006, then-Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) voted for new fencing, touting it as a mechanism for "better security along our borders." Ten years later, he dismissed Trump's proposed wall, saying it is "something that is not thought through and is primarily put forward for political consumption."
> 
> Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) suggested she would support a fence along the entire Mexican border in 2006. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) offered an amendment to the 2013 Senate immigration bill that would have required fencing to be made with iron, steel and manufactured goods produced in the United States. (The amendment failed, but Brown voted for the 2013 bill).
> 
> ...


Now look at the above... .How come Biden isn't called a "racist"??????? He is calling "mexico corrupt"..... RACIST.... uke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Liberals are leaving the reason reservation. Time after time they are proven wrong, yet jump on the very next bs spread by a media that is anti American, anti democracy, and anti capitalism. I think they thought Obama was is hiring in extreme socialism, or soft communism and they were going to get to live their utopia
If they looked at Venezuela they would learn a lesson, but they are do extremely arrogant they think the reason socialism fails is because they didn't do it.
Liberals grasp at every Trump conspiracy theory out there. I'll give you a conspiracy theory. They want to impeach Trump and Pence, Nancy is president and appoints Hillary vice president, then steps down leaving Hillary president. What they are trying to do with Muhler isn't much different than what crazies do in crap hole countries.
By the way don't get to excited about Stone. He is charged with procedural violations. Kind of a catch all when there is no crime. Trying to get info from Eikileaks isn't a crime. It's simply seeking information. Using a Russian spy and a British spy to fabricate a dossier and using your cronies in the FIB to illegally obtain wire taps is a crime. We know who that is right? You do if you don't have Trump derangement syndrome.

A little off topic, but did you see liberals in New York celebrate last week when they passed legislation allowing the killing of a child that survived an abortion. These people are not civilized they are backwards savages.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Chuck I seen you mentioned Crowder. On Utube check out Mark Dice. A guy doesn't know if he should laugh or cry some of the people he interviews are so out there. He asks some crazy questions thinking they have to have a line somewhere. He asked them about incest. Oh nothing wrong there as long as they are both adults. What if it's a father daughter? Nothing wrong there as long as they are both adults. How about a brother sister? Nothing wrong there as long as they use birth control. Just when you thought the world couldn't get crazier along comes some liberals to prove you wrong.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman....

I watch Dice as well. You are correct they get some of the crazies for sure.

Yeah I was waiting for this "bombshell" or what ever to go off like the rest of them.... A DUD! But we are still at the end of the "wait and see" with Stone.

But like you mentioned we know of others who have "lied" to congress under oath and still nothing has been done to them or charges brought up.

I hate to say it thou.... Last week I agreed with Bernie Sanders. :rollin: But he was talking about finding a candidate for the dem party. I don't have the exact sound bite but it was something along the lines is stop trying to find the candidate based on race, gender, etc. Find the best candidate on their platform. Which is exactly what the Dems have been doing. They knew that Obama won or got many votes because of his race. So then they figured that Hilary would win because of her gender (ie: first woman president). Now they are trying to get a "minority" and a woman. (Yes people still think Warren is a minority). So I agree with him. A presidential candidate it shouldn't matter their race, ethnic background, gender, etc. It should matter what platform the see fit for out country and moving forward to help the citizens. Then if you believe in that platform or not is why you should or shouldn't vote for them. :bop: For once Bernie made sense... :rollin:

But you are correct many people have that T.D.S. If people don't believe it... Watch Crowder or Dice. Especially Crowders "change my mind" stuff. It shows how especially on college campuses this is happening. Granted you got kids dealing with emotional transformations in their bodies at those ages and people trying to figure out who they are in life. But it will show you how out of touch that age group is on some campuses. Plus we should all be worried because those are the ones who are voting more and more. Plus are the ones who are supposed to be the next labor force to help drive this country.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Now Tiny Trump thinks he knows more than ALL his Intelligence Chiefs. What an idiot!!!! :eyeroll: uke: :eyeroll: uke:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Jeez I get a kick out of you liberals. First it is, "Trump should give in to the Democrats and reopen government" then it is, "Trump caved to the democrats, what an idiot" :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I didn't know that all the intelligence chiefs were Democrats.

Dan Coats is the current Director of National Intelligence and a Trump appointee.

Richard Burr is The Republican chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Trump needed to hear this. But then being who he is, not a surprise he doesn't like what they are telling him. Like I said only an idiot would disregard what they are saying. This guy is totally naive and a disaster.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

huntin1 said:


> Jeez I get a kick out of you liberals. First it is, "Trump should give in to the Democrats and reopen government" then it is, "Trump caved to the democrats, what an idiot" :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


 You can't win with those people can you. Heads they win tails your loose. Nothing keeps them happy. It's victim mentality mixed with vindictive.

I see in the end Trump has the same approval rating, but Pelosi went down a few points.

I for one am glad Trump isn't listening to these semi-intelligent chiefs. They are to political and part of the swamp. Fire them. :rollin:

Today in Bible study we talked about two thirds of the time about a Biblical (not modern liberal pseudo Christian) view of the wall. We got into Luther talking about the right hand kingdom and the left hand kingdom. As Christians we live in both. We live in the right hand kingdom of God and the left hand kingdom of this world. Government is Gods instrument of law and order on earth. Governments job is to protect the people within it's border. There is nothing anti Christian about a wall. The liberal Christian will say we have evil on one hand and in the opposite hand we have love. That's a wrong assumption. The opposite of evil is apathy. Standing aside and doing nothing. They don't understand that a loving God punishes evil. So much wrong thinking with liberal Christians.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

KEN W said:


> I didn't know that all the intelligence chiefs were Democrats.
> 
> Dan Coats is the current Director of National Intelligence and a Trump appointee.
> 
> ...


So where in my post did I specify "intelligence chiefs"? oke:

I specifically stated, "you liberals" which any normal person would take as you, and any other liberals, (read democrats).

I'm not sure Ken, are you being obtuse, or just disingenuous?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I didn't know that all the intelligence chiefs were Democrats.


 huntin1 that was wild jump in desperation. :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

So when the next "shutdown" happens...&#8230; Who do we blame?

Pelosi came out saying NO WALL.... Shummer has come out and said, "NO WALL".... both before the any negotiations happened. Now they are still saying the same thing. So..... Who opened up the government in "good faith" for negotiations and which side is trying to negotiate????

This is going to be really interesting what will happen when the dead line is closer. I for one don't want Trump to do the EO or State of Emergency thing. Because that will tie up the courts and what not. Because you know it will be challenged over and over and over. I say... let it shut down and just keep showing how you wanted to negotiate and the other side isn't willing to negotiate. Which is what exactly is happening. :beer:


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

KEN W said:


> I didn't know that all the intelligence chiefs were Democrats.


Can't be, not possible to have intelligence desribe dumbocrats :rollin: :rollin:


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