# Pointer help.



## target (Aug 10, 2006)

I have a 1 yr. old GSP. This is the first year I have had her out actually hunting instead of just running around. She does a great job at staying close and working the area and tracking birds. However, she is not getting any pointing in. Three days straight I have been hunting and she has only pointd after the flush. She is wearing a collar wih 2 tags that jingle together.

My question is " Is it her, is it the collar, or is it the birds not holding that is causing her to not get any points. She is getting birds to flush right under and in front of her and once they are up she points that spot. Is it just a young pup thing? Or is there anything I should be doing to train her better.


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## Dooger73 (Jul 19, 2005)

I would just keep getting her on birds, birds, and more birds. She will figure out the routine eventually. One other suggestion: don't shoot any birds that she hasn't pointed. She needs to make the association of:
pointed bird=reward of getting to catch/retrieve the bird
flushed bird=no reward.

At this age, keep it all upbeat and fun - she's still a pup.

Good luck!


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## Springer (Dec 21, 2004)

I think you should get some pigeons, or chukars and work her on a check cord and when she smells the bird don't let her go anymore, then have someone flush the bird for you.

Definitely do not shoot any birds that she doesn't point, that will make things worse for you in the future.

Good luck, hopefully it will come soon.


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## jonesy (Aug 3, 2006)

wild or pen raised?? what is she doing before the flush, is she showing sign that she is smelling, or "getting birdy" there should be a change in her body actions. How many birds has she pointed, and or how was the association done prior to the start of he season. Just trying to figure out the rest of the story, before figuring out the fix. Jonesy


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## Britman (Dec 18, 2002)

Dooger hit this one on the head. Sounds likes your dog hasn't had much bird exposure. Keep the exposure up, if she has any desire and instincts the light bulb will come on.


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## jonesy (Aug 3, 2006)

So here is little food for thought, if the rest of the story is that this dog has all sorts of birds, and is not pointing, how is the advice gonna fix the problem?? Hard to fix stuff when ya dont have the full story.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I wouldn't use a check cord to stop her thats not her pointing that would be you stopping her and thats not pointing.

Let her instincts come on they almost always do in time, the time varies.

After raising and training shorthairs for thirty plus years I've seen shorthairs that didn't point reliably until their second season although its rare.

Just keep hunting her, and I would shoot birds over her. I don't suscribe to the no point no shoot stuff, IMO thats for older broke dogs that start to regress. Reward her with birds, pointing is instinctive it will happen with very very rare exceptions.


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## target (Aug 10, 2006)

Thanks for all of the advice,

I think Dogger and BOBM are right on. She is getting very birdy and I know exactly when she is hot on a trail. Took her out last night and she pointed 2 hens, these are the first 2 points on birds she has had. Like I mentioned she has been pointing on the spots after the bird flushes, so I know she wants to point. I believe it is just lack of experience or so I hope.


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## wiskodie1 (Sep 11, 2006)

Hi all
I got a trick that might help you out.
Take the dog out in the back yard, bring a fishing pole and put a pheasant wing on it.
Flick the wing out into the yard and if she goes for the wing to fast, tell her to Woe, if she gets to close to it to fast. Flick the pole/wing over her head and out to a different place in the yard. Keep telling her to woe when she is coming up on the wing. (this is NOT a sit, stay, fetch trainer so don't use those commands)
What you want her to start doing is slowing down on the approach, with any luck your pup will start going into something of a cat crawl moving in on the bird one slow step at a time, when she start doing this, and getting up nice and close, 1 to 3 feet, lightly twitch the wing a couple of times, she should go on point and stay there, I wouldn't worry to much about what the point looks like just as long as the pup goes rock solid and doesn't move a muscle. after you got her holding a point, walk up to your pup and kick the wing a bit with your foot, at the same time flick the pole and you just flushed the bird. 
After that all you got to do is pet and love on the pup for a while and then start over again.

This is how we trained in our pup, now she is 3 years old and amazing in the field, I cant count the number of times she has cat crawled a hundred yards or more on a pheasant that wont hole up, when it does she can get within inches of it without making the bird flush. You almost have to step on her nose to flush the bird and it blasts off into the air from between your legs.
Talk about great hunting, nothing beats a pointer at work in the field.

Well hope that helps you out. Good luck and happy hunting

edit
sorry i forgot to post that you stop using the word "whoe" as soon as your pup starts slowing down on the approach its only used to teach her to slow down on birds when she gets close to them, gets them out of the fetch mode and into birdy mode. once she has that little part figured out you can keep working her with the wing, and just pet and love on here when she does it right. and of course you wouldnt use a whoe at all in the field when your pup gets birdy.


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## jonesy (Aug 3, 2006)

So then lets pick the brain a little, why is she pointing late?? Or after the flush??


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## target (Aug 10, 2006)

jonesy said:


> So then lets pick the brain a little, why is she pointing late?? Or after the flush??


I guess I was just assuming the bird was flushing before she new right where it was, and once it was up she new the spot. She has some vision problems and cannot see the bird once it is not close anymore. So she is not seeing it in flight.


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## wirehairman (Oct 31, 2005)

Do you have access to remote release traps and training birds, preferably homing pigeons? Our local pointing dog club has both available to members, but I don't know what you have in your area.

If you can get acces to them, plant a bird in the release trap and work your pup into it. You say you recognize when she is on scent, so pop the bird as soon as she is working it but not pointing. Keep running her through the scenario. She should start pausing and eventually pointing the birds. Do not talk to her while your working her through the drill, especially don't "whoa" her. Let her figure it out on her own and learn to trust her nose and be a little cautious. Often with young pointers, its just a matter of building confidence.

As for the wild birds, early season sharpies are often much more cooperative with a young dog versus a running rooster.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

because the dog has a vision problem and is young it will just take a little longer time to develop its skills just like you would if you were learning a new skill.

Forget all the training stuff and just hunt her as much as possible this year and see if she begins to catch on to the game. If she learns it herself you will will be ahead of the game.

Even young dogs that can see well will bump birds until they catch on, heck older experienced dogs bump birds sometimes


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## jonesy (Aug 3, 2006)

This can be a sorta hard one without seeing the dog do its thing, meaning the dog should be smelling before seeing, so is it in the scent cone, up wind, cross wind. this is where the fixing will have to kick in, if you take and walk the dog directly in to the bird where the wind is dead in its face....how does it act, or what does it do? Lets start back in the beginning, from the boogered up session you just had. Ok??? 
Thanks Jonesy


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## fishless (Aug 2, 2005)

Dont worry about it my gsp is in her second year already doing 3 times better then last. I myself was a bit worried last year because she was bumping birds but after a bit of training with live birds over the summer and a little matureing she is a different dog. Dont sweat it, she will catch on. just enjoy her youthful enthuisam for right now. :beer:


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## Britman (Dec 18, 2002)

To many people get caught up in perfection from the start. This dog even though it's over the net is exhibiting the classic signs of lack of exposure.

Just get out and hunt the hair off her, by the end of the season she will be a completely different dog.


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## target (Aug 10, 2006)

Britman said:


> To many people get caught up in perfection from the start. This dog even though it's over the net is exhibiting the classic signs of lack of exposure.
> 
> Just get out and hunt the hair off her, by the end of the season she will be a completely different dog.


I will admit it right now I jumped the gun, asking this question with her only having 3 days of hunting experience. Had her out last night (Day 5) She got a few point, but since we also had a lab with he was bumping them. Day 6 today she did a magnificent job pointing. I was done in less then a half hour that is also with some bad shooting. So I agree with all on the experience factor. I just got worried but thanks everyone


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

don't hunt her with a lab or any other flushing dog untils shes had a couple seasons of hunting.

The competition will very likely make her start flushing birds.

even seasoned pointing dogs will act up if a flusher is running by them when they are on point.


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## wirehairman (Oct 31, 2005)

After reading some of the responses and rereading the original post, I want to recind my earlier advice. I thought this was your dog's second hunting season or first "real' season.

Bob and Britman are right on the button, just hunt the heck out of a young dog and get them a ton of exposure. You'll be amazed at how quickly they figure things out on their own.

Also, I want to second Bob's thought on never hunting a pointer, especially a young one, with a flusher. I had a 12 year GSP that was death on pheasants but saw her completely lose it when hunted with a flusher and go on a mission to prove that she could find and flush birds farther out and sooner than any lab.


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## Britman (Dec 18, 2002)

Hey Jonesy glad you found this board. I didn't realize that was you right away. Have you been to Mo's lately? I am really jealous that you live close enough to train with one of the best.

Welcome aboard you are good addition here.


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## jonesy (Aug 3, 2006)

About due to head down, was there first of sept to help with the seminar, due to health probs with his daddy we canceled, we are discussing very seriously about having one here in Kentucky in the spring. Got alot of people that say to do it, we will see, I will post about.he is 4 1/2 hours from me, not to bad a drive. Got 4 young dogs getting started, and 4 that are getting force fetched, 1 almost ready to go home she is finishing on the steady to wing, shot, and kill, she natural retrieves, she forgets that she has to stand for the kill, pretty funny the way she will look at me, one of the priceless moments. So my travel is none for little, prolly after first of the year.


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## Britman (Dec 18, 2002)

jonesy - are you using the west/gibbons FF method? Man that system is really impressive and is so much less stressfull on both the dog and owner.


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## jonesy (Aug 3, 2006)

I have played with the style little, not confident with it enough for my client dogs, still doing the toe pull, and patience, its not stressfull, just can be time consuming, guys and gals expect an immediate proof for the work, and when it doesnt show itself, they panic, and get it to be stressfull. Take a deep breathe and count to 10....or maybe 20   Its not that bad, people just get in to big a hurry. Later Jonesy


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