# USPS BS!!!



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I just gotta vent a bit, and I am sure there are going to be people that will argue with me on this, but I really don't care!

Yesterday I received a brand new ($400 range)barrel from a gentleman on another site. Later in the day when I had time to open the package I pulled the barrel out threaded end first, and saw the barrel was in plastic, with a thread cap. There were newspapers stuffed and wrapped all around the barrel. I got to the muzzle and noticed the muzzle was scuffed and pitted in two places. I have shown pictures to two gunsmiths and both say it will almost certainly need to be re-crowned. My first thought was that it looked like it had been dropped. I contacted the person I bought it from and was told the barrel was in perfect condition when it shipped, so I inspected the package. I found this partial hole in the box, and also in the Priority Mail tape the USPS puts on their packages. The contour of the hole matches exactly to the muzzle of the barrel, and the fact that is it through the tape proves the damage was done after the USPS was in possession of the package. Today I took the package and the barrel to the USPS office in town and was told they agreed that the damage happened while in their possession, but since the package was not insured they would not do any thing to fix it. I think that is complete BS and told them as much. Admitting to fault, but not being accountable for reimbursement for damages is completely insane! It should not be the duty of the shipper to "insure" the package will arrive in the correct location, and with no damage. It is the responsibility of the SHIPPING COMPANY to assure and "insure" this will happen!

I will never ship any thing through the USPS again if at all possible, and I won't buy any thing from any company or person who does ship through them if at all possible. WHAT A JOKE!!!


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

They could give two s$%*s if you ever come back... they have NOHING to loose. Can't be fired, union will back them for any horrible behavior that would get anyone in private sector fired, and plenty of benefits for the rest of their life... USPO sucks. Get WalMart to run it.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Looks like now they have something to lose......their jobs are hanging by a thread. Do think this might be a small reason why? The other part of the problem is that if you HAD insured it they would say the shipper didn't package it properly. I asked once how well a package had to be packed for shipment. The employee picked up a box, held it arm-pit high and dropped it onto the concrete floor, and said.. "well enough for what's inside to survive that". 

The 308 cases you sent me also vanished all on their own, huh? Chalk it up to just one more example of how things improve when the government is involved. :wink:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Holy crap, I forgot all about those cases! Never heard any thing else about them!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Pay more for UPS, FEDEX, and Speedee.

That's that ****s, but there is a reason hardly anyone uses them.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

blhunter3 said:


> Pay more for UPS, FEDEX, and Speedee.
> 
> That's that sh*ts, but there is a reason hardly anyone uses them.


One question.....would UPS,Fedex,or Speedee have replaced it w/o insurance?

This kind of thing is why there is insurance.Why didn't you get some on something like that?


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Do you get insurance on your food at mc d's? Or when they change the oil on your car? Or do you expect people to do their jobs? You shouldn't have to pay to insure some thing. You are already paying to have it shipped, that should be a given that they won't break your stuff. People get paid to do a job and do it correctly. I wasn't the one shipping, if you didn't notice, but that isn't the point. USPS screwed up, admitted it, then said tough $h!t what are you going to do about it, but in a nicer way.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

You are right.....I don't insure a Hamb that costs $2.00.

Again would any of those companies replace it if it was not insured?

Guess you won't be buying anything that has to be shipped.All of those companies require insurance to get it replaced.

Also the USPS and others would have to increase shipping costs for all the rest of us because you want it included w/o paying for it.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I've shipped USPS for years, it does happen for sure. I could tell stories...

You almost have to insure anything over $100 going through the mail. If and when it does happen I've always gotten my money back from the feds believe it or not.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Same old ken. Why can't you grasp the fact that these folks should be held accountable just like you and I? I am not asking for any thing without paying for it. We all pay for the service why in hell should we pay a price, then pay more to have the job done correctly? I never got paid extra when I was roofing. The price was set, we did the job, and if there was a problem, we fixed it. No one had to pay roofing ins. Ever have people pay teaching insurance, just in case you screwed up and a kid failed a test because you didn't explain some thing very well?

Chris, that is exactly why I am so upset. It happens a lot, but no one gets mad and makes any one accountable. It is stupid! If I screw up in my work my company has to fix what I screwed up and I probably get fired. Just like most folks in this country. Why should we pay to have them do a job, then pay more to have them do it correctly without braking any thing. It makes no sense.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

By the way,ken, you do realize you already ARE paying extra for the shipping when you buy the insurance don't you? :eyeroll: just asking for a little accountability, but I guess that is too much to ask from some folks!

I wasn't the shipper, nor am I the shipping company. I didn't have a choice how my item was shipped. The item was in perfect condition when it shipped, it should arrive at my house in the same condition. The seller shouldn't be held responsible for the condition of the item once it is out of his hands, and I shouldn't be out the money because USPS damaged my barrel!


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Why should our government take responsibility for what happens with the mail ? They don't take responsibility for anything else !................


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Same old Savage.....you want something that you think all of us should pay for.

Sorry but you fail to grasp the fact that today's prices do not include insurance.That is the way it is because most people do not want insurance.Why should I pay a higher cost when I feel it is not needed.Have the people that are shipping high cost items pay extra instead of all of us.Can't you understand that?

Believe me.....you screw up the work at the USPS and you will get fired.Having insurance on a lost or damaged item won't save you.

Again.....you want all of us to pay for your loss by increased rates to cover the kind of thing that happened to you.Make no mistake,if the USPS insured EVERY piece of mail.....we would all pay higher fees.

Don't you think most people would rather pay a lower price,and have the people WHO WANT TO pay for insurance pay it????Why would anyone including you want to pay higher prices when you don't have to?????? :eyeroll:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: 
As usual the point is missed. They admitted fault, they are responsible. End of story.

Same old Savage.....you want something that you think all of us should pay for.

Really, name one time that has happened. Go ahead...........yea, you got nothing!

Obviously it isn't just "my loss". It has happened many, many times, and nothing is done about it. I know you don't understand accountability, but that is what is needed here!

I better buy re-crowning insurance to make sure the smith does a good job on my barrel, and leaky faucet insurance just in case it still leaks after the plumber comes by. I suppose Dr. screw up ins is needed for my knee surgery on the off chance he operates on the wrong knee, because all these things would be my responsiblity! :shake:


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## Andy Weber (Nov 18, 2009)

Savage260 said:


> I better buy re-crowning insurance to make sure the smith does a good job on my barrel, and leaky faucet insurance just in case it still leaks after the plumber comes by. I suppose Dr. screw up ins is needed for my knee surgery on the off chance he operates on the wrong knee, because all these things would be my responsiblity! :shake:


 :rock: I think the same..except when you come to my body shop and we get overspray off another job on your car, WE will fix OUR mistake and not make you pay more upfront or buy insurance... :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Savage.... I get your point. They admitted they did the damage but yet won't do anything to correct it. That is the goverment....no liability insurance.

Now when you compare it to other things....ie gunsmith, roofing, etc. People or companies buy insurance for completed products or they are worried about the reputation of the place they work. Your roofing example. If you did a poor job and it looked bad or in 2 years the roof leaked....you could have told them go to hell. But yet you wanted to have a good reputation and the pride of doing good work. With other companies....think of the recalls....insurance pays a portion of that. They have completed products insurance. Just for that reason. Because just like now John Deere is recalling a bunch of lawn mowers...15000+ IF they have to foot the bill to fix them or replace them it would make a smaller company go bankrupt. (John deere is doing good with its other lines...;-P). At the USPO....they don't care or don't have to worry about anything like that because the goverment does not have liability. Like someone stated...unionized! They will get paid no matter what they do if a good job or bad job.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I've made my point.Time to move on.Sorry your barrel was damaged.


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## templey_41 (Jul 19, 2008)

take em to small claims court. Judge Judy! 

I get your point. It would be like me taking care of your mom, killing her, taking responsibility for it then you not seeing any money for it. That would never happen....right? exactly! The some how have low responsibility when it's someone elses chit! I'm wiht you guy they somehow have the luxury of breaking stuff for fun when there is no insurance on it. They must use a different colored tape on it then when its in the back warehouse they find it all and play hockey with it.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> I never got paid extra when I was roofing. The price was set, we did the job, and if there was a problem, we fixed it.


I like the comparison. $3000 for your new roof, but if you don't want it to leak?...... well that's gonna cost you extra!


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## Blue Plate (Jul 31, 2006)

I have littlerally mailed hundreds of duck and goose calls via USPS. I always use 1st class mail, tracking numbers and insurance and the total cost is under $5.00 everytime. USPS is by far the cheapest way to send small packages anywhere in the US. Plus the guys at my local USPS shop are awesome. The item was not insured, end of topic.


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## Andy Weber (Nov 18, 2009)

Blue Plate said:


> end of topic.


Ok


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Very telling when a person would rather save a few bucks than make people accountable. USPS is in the hole so much already what would it matter if they had to pay for things they damage or lose?

Thanks so much for your concern, ken. :wink:



> I have littlerally mailed hundreds of duck and goose calls via USPS......The item was not insured, end of topic.


You are "littlerally" brilliant, I guess you just shot my arguement down! :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Another reason that the USA is going down the crap house. Every one just looking for a way to get over on some one else and f them. Usps is a money loseing venture right now. As the people who are funding it with out tax dollars i would rather see all mail go to private contract and save the money to use some where else. Like our excelent welfare programs we have. It sucks that now a days you can not trust anyone to do the job they were hired to do.


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## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

Not trying to stir the pot, UPS shipments are insured for the first $100.00 value. But their minimum is between 6 and 8 bucks. I am not sure about FEDEX.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

My friend also a bee keeper was trying to get a contract with a bakery. They asked him to send them 10 quarts of honey and they would try it. Jim packaged up 10, 3 pound (a quart) plastiac jugs of honey went to the USP office and sent it off. After two weeks with out hearing any thing from the bakery about his honey he went looking for the honey. UPS had some how managed to bust the package open and get 3 of the jugs leaking so they just gave it to employees and never said a word about it to any one hopeing they wouldn't get caught.

Best deal in shipping for a bee keeper is USPS flat rate. I have shipped untold pounds of wax in the last 10 years and never had a customer complaint on the condition of the package nor had one lost. I have shiped many a hundred pounds of honey with out a ding to any jug or jar per reports from my customers . Most packages arrive with in 2 days of my shipping it too.

From the look of the package I agree it was not properly packaged. With the right amount of bubble wrap or even news paper the muzzle end of the barrel should not have made that kind of mark and broke thru the package end.

Fine with me if ya slam USPS and pay more to ship thru UPS and FEDX even with out insurance than UPSP with insurance.

 Al


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

alleyyooper said:


> Fine with me if ya slam USPS and pay more to ship thru UPS and FEDX even with out insurance than UPSP with insurance. Al


Exactly what I have been sayihng. :thumb:


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> From the look of the package I agree it was not properly packaged. With the right amount of bubble wrap or even news paper the muzzle end of the barrel should not have made that kind of mark and broke thru the package end.


That's exactly the response he would have gotten if he HAD insured it. And "the right amount of bubble wrap" will almost always be _just a little bit more than was actually used_...therein lies the problem. If they run over it with a truck or lose it, ins is a good thing, but unless it's packed to survive a direct hit from a sidewinder missile insurance won't help much.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I love how you people love to point fingers when you have no clue what you are talking about. The package was fine, the USPS even said it was. You should move to Kalifornia where you belong. The rest of us will attempt to hold people accountable while you folks look to blame every one but those responsible.

We are not talking about shipping cost just accountability.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

In case you didn't know....I am a substitute mail carrier for the USPS.I'm not defending what they did to your package.But am defending the lower cost of many items that would increase in cost if EVERYTHING,no matter the value, was insured.


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## dsm16428 (Feb 19, 2009)

I have shipped a ton of goose calls, chokes, AND barrels through USPS...all packaged CORRECTLY and have never once in prob 10 years of doing so have I ever had a single issue. Sure I had some boxes get a little smushed/dropped on a corner etc. but I always made a point to pack the item just in case that would happen. I NEVER tell the person behind the counter what I'm shipping (it's none of their bussiness) unless I'm shipping ammo, in which case the box is properly marked "ORMD-AMMUNITION" on all sides of the box.Looks to me by the packing job that there wasn't much between the muzzle of the barrel and the cardboard of the package box used. It may make you feel better to vent about it but honestly you really haven't a leg to stand on as far as the damage...sucks I know.


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## NDMALLARD (Mar 9, 2002)

Mr. Savage, I am sorry about the damage to your package.

UPS and Fed Ex both offer insurance up to the first $100 dollars on the packages entered into their ship stream. The Postal Service does offer insurance options from a retail perspective for the "everyday" citizen but for commercial mailers (businesses and folks who ship alot of stuff) there are less costly insurance options that are more user friendly than the over the counter USPS insurance option. U-Pic insurance is a company that comes to mind.

Things are damaged in handling for all carriers. The rate of damage within the USPS system is very low - Just as it is with Fed Ex and UPS. Everyone has a story about a damaged package because those incidents stand out. Packages are often sorted by machines within the carriers systems and machines do not "care" about your package. It is wise to purchase insurance if you are receiving or sending something of value.

You could have insured that pacakge for the full amount for less than $3 with a company like U-Pic.

Ken is correct in the fact that the USPS is the most affordable option for lightweight packages sent B to C. In fact, both Fed Ex and UPS are very large users of the Postal Service to deliver packages the "last mile" that were tendered with them.

In case it is not obvious, I work with commercial shippers and mailers for a living.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Forgot to mention that every day that I deliver the mail.....I have pkgs that UPS has dropped off at the post office to deliver the next day.So just because you are sending a pkg UPS doesn't mean that UPS makes the last delivery to your home.I deliver many certified letters and pkgs that must be signed for by the recipient.


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## mulefarm (Dec 7, 2009)

Pretty simple. Savage paid for a service, barrel was to be shipped and delivered(not damaged) USPS failed to do this and should be held responsible.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

OK....I opened it back up.Doesn't change anything.Don't you think this dead horse has been beaten enough?


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Ken, let me ask you this...if YOU dropped Savage's pkg and saw you had damaged it...would you feel _PERSONALLY_ responsible, or would your feelings be totally dependent on whether or not the pkg had a blue "insured" sticker on it?

And to your question above, it depends on whether or not that horse was insured before you guys killed it!


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## duckmander (Aug 25, 2008)

We had the same problem with fed ex. when ever i order something I always add a note to order form saying if fed ex is the only means of shipment cancel this order. I do not except shipment via fed ex.

Also I am not sure it helps or not. but I always insure anything of value when in shipment. It is usually only a few bucks versus buying another one. I have never had to use it. but I have had supplier knock off several dollars for damaged products upon arrival. and I had fed ex come out and look at several things that were dammaged in transit. they reembersed me for all of it. they threw two ten dollar trahs cans over the fence and my lab chewed them to pieces. they tied a modum to the fence and my lab was just tearing the sack through the fence when the wife got home. and the kicker was they threw a 400 dollar credit card machine over the fence which the lab chewed to little bitty pieces. they wasted to see it. so I picked it up from all over the yard. they mever showed up. they just sent me a new one. and just luckily we cought them here and recieved to hand. or it surely would have been in the trash with the first one.

That story above about surviving a drop from shoulder height. is TRUE. that is what they would do over the fence.

I am sure they through this stuff around like a football. and dont even think twice about it. they have that not mine attitude. so I dont care.

Well good luck with your barrel.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Now we've beaten the horse enough. You've answered any and all questions by boldly proclaiming even though you dropped it, YOU are not responsible.

Are you a democrat, by chance?


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## Ref (Jul 21, 2003)

Maybe Savage260 should go after the guy who sold the barrel to him. Evidently, it wasn't packaged well enough. I don't care what the seller said he did to protect it during shipment....the proof is that it wasn't enough.

C-squared is VERY GOOD at stirring the pot oke:


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I shutter to think how my honey would arrive to the buyers address if I were to H.A. package it like the guy shipping the barrel.

With just a little thinking you can figure out the package has to travel many miles and maybe be transfered from a truck to a plane and back to a truck and several wearhouses. The packages are sorted several times depending on how many tranfers it takes to get it in the right place. 
People are people in all work places, some care about the work they do and do it to the best of their ability. Some just don't care and do what ever to get the chore done so they can sit on their cans or get to the card game, or the monday night foot ball game on their phone.

Two layers of card wrapped over the end of the barrel would have padded that muzzle so it wouldn't break thru so easy. 
I save all those plastic shopping bags we get. Make great filler in a package and even cusion things from ruff handling.

Me thinks the anger is at the wrong spot. Me thinks I would contac the shipper and ask for the amount to fix the barrel or ask for a refund and ship it back. Packaged better then they did of course.

 Al


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