# savage 30/06 questions



## remingtoncff (Jan 10, 2010)

Anyone own this model 111FCXP3 http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/ at wal mart i was thinking about picking it up but dont have any experience with this brand , anybody have some info on accuracy, bolt handling and durability or am I better off saving up for a remington 700?


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

There's really no debate that the 700 is more rifle than a Savage 111. The guys who love Savages stand by there choice based on accuracy & value for the buck (and that gap is shrinking), but simply don't have as leg to stand on when the comparison turns to to beauty, lines, and quality of workmanship. NO one will deny Remington's track record of accuracy.

I've had my share of Savages over the years and by & large most are more an acceptably accurate, but even their top of the line stuff have a "cheap" aura about them, particularly when compared to something like a 700 CDL or the old BDL. I have a bunch of 700's, but the only Savage I still own is a LH HB bolt 17HMR that I replaced the cheap birch stock with a custom laminate. It's a fine shooter but more important was the only LH 17HMR bolt made at the time. If Remington came out with one, I would trade the Savage in on it in a heartbeat.

Also a caveat about buying from Wal Mart, they will not take returns on firearms under any circumstances and if you have a defect issue they won't handle it, you will be told to contact the company that makes the gun. I found this out the hard way with a Remington 597 and a Mossy 835 that were bought at WM and were defective new out of the box.

There has long been a rumor in the shooting sports community that WM sells guns that are seconds that don't pass QC to make it to a top tier gun shop or dealer's shelf. Maybe, maybe not, but the two guns I bought from WM over the years were both defective and once I paid for them I was one my own. Two in a row indicates a trend to me, not a coincidence. Do an internet search on hunting forums and there is no shortage of hese annecdotes.

Whichever way you decide to go, save yourself the aggravation, buy from a dedicated gun dealer or sporting goods store which will stand behind the firearms they sell...


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

If you want some thing pretty to look at buy a painting or get a girlfriend, if you want a reliable hunting rifle that is just as accurate and less expensive than a 700 go for the Savage!


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Why settle when you can have it all in one package, 260? :beer:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Yea, probably true, so then go for a Savage 12 BTCSS, it is almost identical to my 700 VLSS. I can't tell which shoots better, and the Savage was still about $75 cheaper. Those of us with no bling on our collars have to think about prices! There is supposed to be a wink here, but I can't get them to work on my Black Berry!


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

We were at Cabelas looking at rifles, we looked at 3 remingtons, 2 of them were Stainless. Both were very rusty sitting in the store covered with grease. The clerk said they get alot of them like that. The 3rd one was blued, we bought it, by the time we got it home it was rusting. The same person bought a remington Shotgun, he has had nothing but trouble. But to Rem. defense it was only sold by them, and made by someone else. Out of all the Savages I have had, No problems.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Another Savage vs Remington thread?

Where's my popcorn damn it?

And where the hell is Jiffy?

:rollin:


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Savage has come a long way from what it once was.

Remington has seemingly slid downhill from what it once was (at least in the "budget" minded models.......triangle barrels?! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:, plastic stocks, etc etc etc ) annnnywho..........

Savage still feels "cheap" to me. (and I cant stand the feel of the accu-trigger).

Remington, even with the increasingly more common quality control issues, and the lack of attention payed to the "details" (like fit and finish) has still never let me down and still makes a "sound" weapon, even if they skipped over some of the finer details. Its a rare case to get a Rem 700 that doesn't shoot well.

In fact, I just bought one of those "rusty remingtons" from Cabelas that, after a quick once over of the trigger and a stock upgrade from the cheap plastic factory POS, will shoot better than the vast majority of guys are capable of.

Even if I get a Remington someday that is a colossal failure as a shooter, ill still give them another chance as that will be a first.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

For out of the box accuracy without having to do a lot of tweaking to the gun, Savage outshines the Rem period! You can take ten of each in the same caliber and Savage is going to win, 8-10 times regardless of what some believe!

That being said, to answer your question, they are a solid rifle that are not as streamlined or light as other rifles. Very solid workmanship and will last a lifetime plus! In regards to Wallyworld and gun purchases and quality, the guns they sell are no different than the same model at Cabelas or Scheels etc...... You will not have the store backing in regards to service or warranty issues like the others, but the guns are not lower quality! Think about it! Why would any Mfg sell a gun that did not pass QC and run a liability risk!!!!!!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ron Gilmore said:


> For out of the box accuracy without having to do a lot of tweaking to the gun, Savage outshines the Rem period! You can take ten of each in the same caliber and Savage is going to win, 8-10 times regardless of what some believe!


Id argue this quite bold statement.

I don't have a lot of experience with Savage, but what little I do has not been anywhere near like you say. Out of box accuracy on the Savages was far from "outshining" that of Remington.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Simple Bareback! Out of the box accuracy is exactly what it says! No smoothing of the trigger or lightening of the pull! No sanding of the bedding area to stop the barrel from touching, or switching out to a new stock!!!!!!!!!!!!! Off the shelf as they are accuracy!!!!!

You said yourself you have to tweak them to bring them in!

Still want to argue or dispute this?

I own both in a variety of calibers, and to be frank, dollar for dollar and performance Savage is hard to beat followed by Howa/Vanguards. That being said, from an aesthetics point of view. I am a Model 70 Featherweight fan! Has nothing to do with the performance and accuracy, just pure beauty!

Beyond that, most rifles made today will shoot better than most people can shoot or the rifle gets topped with a POS optic that does not hold zero after a while. That is why I would rather see a person buy a Stevens in a common easy to find affordable caliber for ammo, get the trigger worked, put a used Leupold on it and invest the saving on ammo and head to the range! They in the long run will be better served than buying into the false hype that rifle brand X is worth $300.00 more simply because it says Rem 700 or Kimber or Tikka on the rifle!!!!!

So when debating this issue, I tend to look hard at the practical side and see a rifle as a tool, vs allowing the Ford vs Chevy bs to influence things! Because in reality Rem vs Savage is the same as people debating Ford vs Chevy or Dodge!


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Get the Savage, you'll be happier. Might not be as purty as a Rem. but they shoot.

And I agree with Ron, take them all right from the box and the Savages will outshoot the Rems most of the time. Tweak the Rems and then they will compete with the out of the box Savages.

huntin1


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I will agree, My Rem 700 VLSS 22-250 had to be bedded, the barrel channel sanded, and I had to do a trigger "tweak" to get it to shoot in the same ball park as my Sav 12 BTCSS .204 with no work what so ever. That was when I had a Leupy VX-III on the Rem and a Barska SWAT on the Savage. I have since moved the .204 up to a Leupy VX-III also.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ron Gilmore said:


> Still want to argue or dispute this?


Yup!

Ive seen more than one Savage "out of the box" that was far from what anyone would call "accurate". I have yet to see a horrible out of the box Remington.

I can tell our taste in rifles is never ever EVER going to mesh considering you put Howa in your number two spot. I guess I just dont consider what most Savages do out of box as being "accurate". Nobody makes a factory rifle I consider accurate, period. And Remington is just so much easier to get to an adequate level in my experience.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Barreback, I look at a rifle as a tool,thus my reason for putting the Savage in first, Howa second simply on the reliability of one gun to the next out of the box. Triggers on all are set heavy which is the most prevalent reason for poor shooting in most people. Savage Accutrigger is easy to adjust and makes it much more likely for it to group better out of the box! Construction of the rifle in how the barrel connects also removes a lot of issues that Rem has new out of the box as well! Then there is the stock issue! There is no comparison to the synthetic stocks between the two rifles as well!

Now look at Howa/vanguard in comparison to Rem. Again both heavy trigger pulls from the factory, both easy to adjust if you are competent. Fit and finish of a Howa will exceed that of Rem almost every time as well. Polished throat and closer factory tolerances on head space again overshadow that of the Rem.

The conversation and comments are out of the box accuracy, plain and simple! I own a Mossberg ATR in a .243 with a cheap package scope. Bought it for $200.00 that as it is with a much heavier trigger than I like shoots 3/4" MOA with factory ammo at 100 yards. It is a good one, but not all ATR will do what this one does, nor do I judge them all to be the same. But with owning new a dozen or so of Savage,Rem,Howa,Win and even Rugers. The two most consistent out of the box performers without tweaking have been Savage!

Rem in my experience have taken the most effort to bring them into an acceptable level, and none have been exceptional!

But as I said before, when it comes to rifles, you have people who think brand A is the best. It might be that it was the first brand or model they ever owned, or dad or grandpa shot one! Others latch on to what some gun reviewer wrote. A good case in point is the pre-64 Win and the .270 Win both favorites in columns by O"Connor.Myths of reliability,performance where born out of his writings. Same with the 308 Win as being the most accurate, again for what ranges?

I use to do a lot of longer range shooting out to 600 yards. I do not anymore and most people also are not. The majority of people are looking for a gun that is going to allow them a 2" grouping or better at a 100 yards. Most will not buy a scope above $200.00 as well! Do you really think they will take the time to fix the 10lb trigger on a Rem,go through take it all apart and properly re-tighten every screw on the gun, polish the roughness out of the throat, and have it checked to make sure the head space is proper?

I doubt it, and it is not something that they have to deal with most times out of the box with a Savage!


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

If you're looking for a 2" gun, pick up any rifle and i'm sure you'll get what you're looking for. Accuracy out of a factory stick in my opinion would have to be 1" or less. With that, just about any rifle will fit the bill. There are so many variables as to what accuracy is. For one person that picks up a rifle and shoots a 2" group and is satisfied with that, cool. If someone else picks up the same rifle and is able to shoot a 1/2" group, that tells you about the accuracy of the rifle, and the shooter. A lot of inconsistency are blamed on the gun manufacture and not on the shooter.

I'd say pick the one you want, if it shoots keep it. If not sell it. With modern firearms there are few bad apples.

xdeano


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

I agree, get what you like. I love Remingtons and have never had accuracy issues with the 3 that I own. I have owned 2 Savages......one a model 110 30-36 that I ended up trading in for a Remington 700 30-06 because of feeding issues. The second one I still own because it feeds and shoots just fine. I will say that I have never traded in a Remington as they have worked flawlessly for me (all were new).


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

With all Due Respect to Huntin1 and his Model 10, THE gold standard for both military and LE sniping in a bolt action platform is the 700 in 308. Even casual research reveals this to be true. Savage 10's are a fraction of the LE market, and aren't even in the running for our military.

For what it's worth I've used both in the LE sniping role and I personally give the edge to the 700. Also for what it's worth, when I went through LE sniper school of the 18 students in my class there was 1 AR-15, 1 Ruger 77 HB, 1 Savage 10 (my personal rifle at the time), and 15 Remington 700's...

BTW, anyone having problems with a lousy LH 700, PM me so we can deal...


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

NDTerminator said:


> For what it's worth I've used both in the LE sniping role and I personally give the edge to the 700. Also for what it's worth, when I went through LE sniper school of the 18 students in my class there was 1 AR-15, 1 Ruger 77 HB, 1 Savage 10 (my personal rifle at the time), and 15 Remington 700's...
> D


Not to mention you so rarely ever see a custom gun, or a rifle specific to long range shooting, built off a savage action. Lots of Rem 700 used for this purpose, as well as Mauser 98 actions (or copies thereof), and FN/winnie actions. But rarely do you see a savage action used for this.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

barebackjack said:


> NDTerminator said:
> 
> 
> > For what it's worth I've used both in the LE sniping role and I personally give the edge to the 700. Also for what it's worth, when I went through LE sniper school of the 18 students in my class there was 1 AR-15, 1 Ruger 77 HB, 1 Savage 10 (my personal rifle at the time), and 15 Remington 700's...
> ...


Still does not change the fact that out of the box Savage will shoot better than a Rem! The thread and question remains the same, no matter how you guys try and justify it!

No loctite needed on a Savage it you want to keep it factory!


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

NDTerminator said:


> THE gold standard for both military and LE sniping in a bolt action platform is the 700 in 308. Even casual research reveals this to be true. Savage 10's are a fraction of the LE market, and aren't even in the running for our military.
> 
> For what it's worth I've used both in the LE sniping role and I personally give the edge to the 700. Also for what it's worth, when I went through LE sniper school of the 18 students in my class there was 1 AR-15, 1 Ruger 77 HB, 1 Savage 10 (my personal rifle at the time), and 15 Remington 700's...


And all due respect to NDT, but..... They are the gold standard because everyone buys them, and everyone buys them because the bean counters controlling the money don't know any better. Hey if it's good enough for everyone else, it's good enough for us.

My last 2 sniper schools were different than NDT's, about half the rifles there were Savage 10FP's and the instructors themselves preferred the Savage over the Remington.

I too have used both the Rem 700 and the Savage 10FP in an LE sniping role. Prefer the Savage, that's why I bought my own Savage instead of a Rem.



barebackjack said:


> Not to mention you so rarely ever see a custom gun, or a rifle specific to long range shooting, built off a savage action. Lots of Rem 700 used for this purpose, as well as Mauser 98 actions (or copies thereof), and FN/winnie actions. But rarely do you see a savage action used for this.


Tell Team Savage that Savage rifles are no good for long range shooting.

2009:


> It seems hard to believe you can compete and win at the highest levels of long-range shooting competition with a *stock factory rifle,* but that's exactly what Team Savage did at the recent F Class world championships in Bisley, England. The team dominated the F-T/R division, winning a total of 14 medals at the World Championships proper and various side matches associated with the event.


2010:


> This list of long-range events Team Savage has won recently is getting almost as long as the distances they shoot at.
> 
> They recently added the 2010 F T/R National Championship to that list by taking the team competition in grand fashion. The won both the 600 and 1,000 yard events, establishing an new 1,000-yard record of 778-21X.


http://www.savagearms.com/news/article/?id=2K5nTzegQ

Buy a Remington if that's what you want. You'll have a better rifle if you get a Savage though. May not be as purty as the Rem, but it'll shoot better.

huntin1


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

People follow the herd just like cattle. If 3 people have a Rem, then a bunch more will buy a Rem. This stems from the days when Rem was superior to Savage. People are slow to change their ways. If grandpa or dad had a Rem they must be good so I better get one too. There are actually a good number, and growing, of customs built off Savage actions. Also to get the same results from the Savage floating bolt head, the Rem needs to be T&Ted, which means they are not as out of the box accurate. Savage still suffers from a bad rep when they were lower quality, but now they are $ for $ every bit as good as a Rem. Savage doesn't need a bunch of after market parts to shoot well like the Rem does, that is why there are so many things made for the Rem vs Savage.


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

Hmmmm.......the only thing I've ever had to do to my Remingtons is adjust the trigger.....BUT......I had to do that to the Savages also. I'm not a sniper by any means, but I do strive to have an accurate hunting rifle. If it shoots over 1" with me hand tuning different loads or it has trouble feeding.......then it's gone.....end of story. To me there isn't much of an argument, both rifles are excellent for hunting.......that's what you are using it for isn't it? I really could care less what Team Savage states.......or, for that matter Remington guys......they are paid by both companys and are a bit biased in their opinions. Get the one that shoots the load you want to use. Get what you like.....even if Grandpa did or didn't use it. :beer:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

I have owned 5 Remingtons. 1 I could not get to shoot less than 1 1/2" at 100 no matter what I did. 3 required trigger work,bedding, recrowning and bolt lapping to get decent groups less than 1 inch. The other required everything but the bolt lapping.

My 10FP shot 3/4" right out of the box. I did have to adjust the trigger as it came from the factory at a crisp 1 1/2 lbs. I prefer it closer to 2 1/2.

I really don't care what Team Savage SAYS either, the point is what they DO with Savage rifles. And that is WIN long range shooting competitions, at times with factory stock rifles.

Again, get the rifle that best suits YOU.

Huntin1


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Mossberg smokes em all........


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

huntin1 said:


> I have owned 5 Remingtons. 1 I could not get to shoot less than 1 1/2" at 100 no matter what I did. 3 required trigger work,bedding, recrowning and bolt lapping to get decent groups less than 1 inch. The other required everything but the bolt lapping.


And ive NEVER seen one, or owned one, that would shoot over 1" at a hondo out of the box with hand-loads, most were capable of considerably less than that. And most were tightened up by 25% with a simple 5-minute trigger tweak.



> I really don't care what Team Savage SAYS either, the point is what they DO with Savage rifles. And that is WIN long range shooting competitions, *at times with factory stock rifles.*


Ya, just like those nascar guys are driving "stock cars". :lol: :lol: I dont believe Savages statement for one second. Those guys arent shooting at that level with a factory, un-touched rifle.....noooooo freakin way!


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Experiences do differ, don't they. I've had better luck with Savage than Remington. I did say get that which suits you.

And what you said was Savage actions or rifles are rarely used in long range shooting, that's just not the case. They are being used and they are winning comps. More Remington and Mauser actions are used, but why? Because there are more aftermarket upgrades for those platforms, and most Smiths choose to specialize in that platform. And still the Savage rifles hang in there with the Rems at competitions.

I'll say it again, choose the rifle that best suits you, rem. Win. Or Savage. Whatever.

Huntin1


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have only owned one Savage, but I have shot a dozen. I currently own six Remingtons, have owned 30 Remingtons, and have worked on another 50 or 60 Remingtons. Average out of the box Savage will walk all over Remington. I currently have a 700P that shoots .3 inches with 168 gr SMK and 43 gr TAC with a Federal match primer. When I got that rifle it would shoot the Federal match about .5 inches. Then one day I tried a CCI 180 gr and the group opened to 4 inches plus. It required lapping the bolt so much that the barrel had to be set back and the chamber re-cut. Now it's .3 inches with match and .5 inches with heavy hunting loads, but the bolt is lapped, the action faced, the barrel cut to 24 inches and re-crowned, the trigger set on two pounds, and the bore lapped. 
I like my Remingtons and my Savage, but I can face the fact that my cheap Savage is as good as my worked Remingtons. I think much has to do with the floating bolt head and trigger.


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## remingtoncff (Jan 10, 2010)

All the answers everyone gave me were just useless> some say savage and others say remington I guess ill buy the savage and if anything when hunting season comes by in a few months ill just use my 12 gauge.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

remingtoncff said:


> All the answers everyone gave me were just useless> some say savage and others say remington I guess ill buy the savage and if anything when hunting season comes by in a few months ill just use my 12 gauge.


Well than, flip a coin...That's basically what it comes down to anyways.

Seriously, got to store, pick up Remington 700, put back on shelf. Got to Savage rack, pick up Savage Model whatever, put back on shelf. If still undecided, flip a coin.

They are both good guns for crying out loud, it comes down to personel preference, which is basically what everybody has been saying all along.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Ahhh, the endless Remington 700 vs Savage 10/11/12/16 debate. Never fails to bring a smile to my face.

Might as well argue over whether blondes or brunettes make better girlfriends...


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

What did you expect, everyone to agree on one single rifle? Ha, never happen. Has never happened in the past, will never happen in the future.

The way this works is you get as many opinions as you can handle before going nuts, then you go to a gun store handle a few rifles and then pick the one you like the best.

And NDT, everyone knows that redheads are best. :lol: :rollin:

huntin1


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