# AR-15 with carry handle and red dot sight--work for coyotes?



## Heavy G (Feb 7, 2009)

I've got a burning question for y'all. At the end of the post I boil it down to three questions.

I have an AR-15 with a carry handle. I have an EO Tech holographic weapons sight on it. It looks like this:










It's a red dot with no magnification. It's way better than iron sights and is great for close-in and low-light work. But it's not magnified.

I am new to coyote hunting. So I don't know the distances involved for shots. I've read a little and it seems like shots are usually longer than the 50-100 yards a red dot is good for.

Do I need a magnified scope?

The problem with the carry handle is that a scope on a rail must be screwed onto the hole in the carry handle. It wobbles a bit after a few shots. Not too much wobble because it holds the zero on my red dot--but holding a zero with a non-magnified optic might not be the same as the same slight difference magnified with a scope.

I guess I could get a magnified scope and just screw that one in when I hunt and keep the red dot on for closer ranges. I could have two optics. Any thoughts on whether I lose a zero going back and forth between scopes given the screw into the carry handle?

(I could trade my carry handle AR for a flat top and then switching between optics would not be a problem because I would just put each onto a rail, instead of a carry handle. But I'll lose money on the trade (I have a Bushmaster A2 and prices of flat tops are way high now) and I'll need to break in the new gun. So trading for a flat top is not an option for me.)

I could get a bolt action rifle with a scope. But I'd rather save some money and use the current AR with the red dot if possible.

One other fact for you to consider is the terrain and game. I would be hunting in eastern Washington state in rolling fields with some little hills. Very few trees. The coyotes I've seen are pretty small, maybe 30 pounds.

I know I need to just get out and start hunting and see the distances myself and how far in I can get them with calls. But I'm at the forum and DVD stage of learning this sport.

What do you guys think? Here are my questions summarized for you:

1. Am I dreaming about using a red dot for coyotes? 
2. Should I use a scope and interchange it and the red dot because I won't lose zero by screwing them into the carry handle? 
3. Should I get a bolt action with a scope?

Thanks guys.


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## 10-2 (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm no expert but if you are comfortable with the red dot I would just keep it on there. Practice with your calls and set-ups so you can get the coyotes in close so you don't need a scope. My brother uses an AR-15 with iron sights and has no trouble.

A magnified scope is pretty sensitive and I think you would have to sight it in everytime you change it out.

Like I said It's more about what you are comfortable with and it sounds like you like the red dot - I would use that.

Be patient when you start hunting and have fun.


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## Varmint_Hunter_007 (Nov 29, 2007)

Another idea for you is look around and see if you can find a carry handle rail mount.

(www.commandarms.com, www.fab-defense.com, www.bravocompanyusa.com etc...)

And I know aimpoint and Eotech make a magnifier, eotech has a 3x that you can get either standard or one that will flip to the side. The only bad thing about those is they cost just a little less then an eotech does.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

The only way to find out if it'll work, and it will, is give it a try.

It will definitely work. Most coyotes are shot inside 100yds, so if you can hit a 3 inch circle at 100yds, you'll have fur. Give it a shot.

The magnifier is also another route like varmint_hunter_007 mentioned.

xdeano


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## striped1 (Aug 17, 2005)

while not ideal, an eotech on the carry handle will work. Plan your set for under 100 yards. A lot of guys shoot yotes with shotguns at 50 yds or less.

FWIW accurate hits with an eo on a flat top out to 300 is possible with practice.


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## Heavy G (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks, y'all.

I will definitely try several hunts with the carry handle red dot and see how it goes.


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## sigcopper (Dec 31, 2007)

Eotechs are not designed to be mounted on a carry handle. like you said in your post, they're suppose to be on a flat top. I'm suprised you can even get it on zero.


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## trikortreat (Dec 10, 2008)

xdeano said:


> The only way to find out if it'll work, and it will, is give it a try.
> 
> It will definitely work. Most coyotes are shot inside 100yds, so if you can hit a 3 inch circle at 100yds, you'll have fur. Give it a shot.
> 
> ...


wow u must be really good at callin if yer takin shots closer than 100yrds....what calliber are u using? cuz if yer using a high power rifle, you could be savin yer money and just use a 22 mag. all my shots are takin beyond 300 yrds.


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## trikortreat (Dec 10, 2008)

heres what i think, i have never been big on AR - 15s. i just dont trust them as much and i dont believe they are as acurate as a bolt action. heres what i would do depending on how much $ u have i would trade the bushmaster in for a modle 700 22-250 vsf, you prolly have a 223? i take it? the 700 run about 1,200$, put i nice optic scope on it. u will be takin longer shots than you ever thought u could take. thats my opinion. some may be against it, u may be against it but thats what i would do sir. bolt actions are more accurate. and the 22-250 has more balls


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

You may as well give it a try. There is no reason it will not work. You may be limited in how far you can shoot but other than that you should not have any problems. I like taking my elk rifle out so I can take those 500yd plus shots. I do take CAR15 AR-15 a lot and it only has peep sights. With it I can shoot groups of about 6 to 8 inches easily out to 300yds. Granted I shoot a lot of service rifle competition. It is also not match ammo just some stuff loaded up to go bang. With my 22-250 I can shoot one inch groups at 300yds. You know how many times I have brought out my 22-250? Zero times. I have taken out my flattop quite a few times and that darn thing will shoot in the 1's. It is nose heavy so I do not take it out as much as I should. I have far more fun with my 338LM or my 15 with the 16inch tube.

Lets not get into a fight about bolt versus AR we all have seen bolts that will not hold three inches at 100yds and the same with a 15.

Crop circles are Chuck Norris' way of telling the world that sometimes corn needs to lie down.


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## sigcopper (Dec 31, 2007)

I posted this question on a Law Enforcement and Military board and received this answer:

Unless you shoot with a gas mask on a lot it's not a good idea.

First, few of the carry handle mounts will stay secure. A loose mount means loss of zero.

Second you will have to install a cheek riser to get a proper cheekweld. A cheek riser will interfere with manipulation of the charging handle.

Lastly you will have an increased line of sight over the bore. This is already a problem with the AR and exasperated by mounting optics on top of the handle.

If this is an agency gun and you are not allowed to swap out the receiver for a flattop, then I suggest you get a Daniel Defense Omega rail system. You can then mount the EOTech on the handguard and have a proper cheek weld. Some even like having the optic that far out.

DO NOT use a gooseneck mount. Everyone I have ever seen has come loose. This ranges from the cheap chinese/airsoft mounts to the A.R.M.S. version.

I would rather go without an EOTech than mount one on the handle.


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## trikortreat (Dec 10, 2008)

People said:


> You may as well give it a try. There is no reason it will not work. You may be limited in how far you can shoot but other than that you should not have any problems. I like taking my elk rifle out so I can take those 500yd plus shots. I do take CAR15 AR-15 a lot and it only has peep sights. With it I can shoot groups of about 6 to 8 inches easily out to 300yds. Granted I shoot a lot of service rifle competition. It is also not match ammo just some stuff loaded up to go bang. With my 22-250 I can shoot one inch groups at 300yds. You know how many times I have brought out my 22-250? Zero times. I have taken out my flattop quite a few times and that darn thing will shoot in the 1's. It is nose heavy so I do not take it out as much as I should. I have far more fun with my 338LM or my 15 with the 16inch tube.
> 
> Lets not get into a fight about bolt versus AR we all have seen bolts that will not hold three inches at 100yds and the same with a 15.
> 
> Crop circles are Chuck Norris' way of telling the world that sometimes corn needs to lie down.


Who said anything about fightin??????? i gave my opinion...as i said...some may not agree and some may. never said a word about fightin


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

trikortreat you did not say fight but stuff like that has a tendency to quickly turn into a fight. Just like who makes a better product GM or Ford. We all know is it depends on the vehicle you get.

When Chuck Norris was denied an Egg McMuffin at McDonald's because it was 10:35, he roundhouse kicked the store so hard it became a Wendy's.


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## trikortreat (Dec 10, 2008)

were on a talk forum thats the last thing im worried about. i was just tryin to help the guy out......but guess some people dont see it that way i guess...


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Settle down boys your making a mountain out of a molehill!

And with xdeano's comment about shooting coyotes at under 100 yards...if you are patient and do your part you shouldn't be shooting most of your called in dogs at over 300 yards anyway. That is unless you are road hunting.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Thanks Fallguy 

Trikortreat,

I'm just an average caller, nothing special about me.

I'm generalizing when I say most are shot within 100yds. Because on average all the people on this board or out actually killing coyotes will shoot them inside of that 100yd mark. Don't get me wrong, I shoot a lot of coyotes over 200yds but their high percentage shots.

Here is the problem, some people that say they shot a coyote at 300yds, can't tell how long their middle finger is besides ranging 300 correctly. The other problem is people that are shooting that far out either don't have the patients or have a nerve problem (coyote fever) and don't retrieve many coyote in a year due in part by missing. There are people on this board who take long shot and can prove it just from the amount of practice that they do at extended ranges.

I take the high percentage shots as often as I can. For me a miss can lead to potential problems down the road. So i'll take advantage of any weapon I get my hands on.

Now to answer your question, my go to coyote rifle is a 308. I do have a 22mag but with the killing potential of such a light round I'd rather not have issues.

HeavyG, 
Sorry for the hijack. I'd say give the sight a shot and tell us if it works for you. You could always get a flat top upper too, but good luck with the wait to get one. 

xdeano


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## Heavy G (Feb 7, 2009)

Thanks, y'all. I'm taking in all the comments and thinking about them.

I'll try the carry handle red dot AR and see what happens. It's what I got.

I might get a bolt action 22-250, .204, or .243. I'll see if I need one. That's cheaper than an AR-15 upper. And a good scope is needed for both the bolt action and the AR-15 upper so that's a wash cost-wise.


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## trikortreat (Dec 10, 2008)

yer right sir, i have been doin this fer years also. i dont do many dog drives. i just plant it n call. i feel more proud when i take the longer shot....thats why i have the type of weapon i have....but im just gona shut up cuz were not gettin anywhere. all im sayin is i like takin the longer shots i wouldnt have the equipment that i have right now if i wasnt going for longer shots. I call until i see a dog once i see it i challenge myself. sorry bout the trouble....i also use a range finder which helps alot...as i said before sorry for the trouble boys.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

no trouble trikortreat, just a good discussion. Nothing wrong with taking a dog when you have the right equipment and experience to do it. 

Heavy,

I'll agree with you on the upper being an arm and a leg. If you do get a bolt gun, go with either the 22-250 or the 243, you'll be very happy that you did. I have one of each and they do the job very well. The 243 is like lightening, they drop in their tracks.

xdeano


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## trikortreat (Dec 10, 2008)

yes sir ill send you a message back right now xdeano...im gettin to it right now.


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