# CHARGE NONRESIDENTS TO HUNT AND LET RESIDENTS HUNT FOR FREE



## mfeining (Nov 2, 2002)

All of the issues that concern nonresidents were actually created by nonresidents. Do you actually think there would be a market for g/o's if only residents were hunting? Being a native, i can tell you that residents hunters don't resent nonresidents for the fancy entourage they storm into nd with; they resent them for what they are leaving behind. As g/o's become more sucessful, they are able to afford more land access agreements, thus shutting out the residents who often can barely afford even to freelance. And if they can go out, it's rarely during the week when pressure is mild. You see, the only reason many landowners are so receptive to nonresidents is that they don't realize what is going on. They don't see the resident hunter who just wants to take his family out and have a peaceful saturday morning afield. If they did, i think things would be different. My father-in-law owns a large tract of land in pheasant country. He charges $50 for a nonresident to hunt for a day. Residents are free to hunt without being charged. I know this isn't a perfect solution, but i know it's better than a land-lease situation. The more i think about it, the more i think he has come up with the ultimate solution to putting an end to g/o's and bringing back freelance hunting. What if we could organize money to make signs to offer landowners the option to charge hunters based on their residency? AT LEAST THE GATES ARE STILL OPENED


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

mf, good to see you here at Nodakoutdoors, where hot topics are actually included in the hot topics . Welcome.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

That is just another type of G/O. "pay me at the door, the field is over there". No one that I know would drive hundreds of miles to pay a land owner $50 to access a field and watch the next guy walk on for free.


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## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

mfeining,

Are you a resident or a nr?

How is your idea going to curb the leasing of land? Seems that Joe farmer would be more inclined to go into the outfitting idea if he could get $$$ from NR/s. Your idea hurts the NR who merely wants to do a little hunting with his family.

Hope your father inlaw has liability insurance if he's taking the $$.

f


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## old dl guy (Nov 7, 2003)

I believe a better solution would be to make everyone who hunts with a guide buy a $25.00/$50.00 guide habitat stamp, which would be good for 5 days. All the proceeds going towards acquiring and improving hunting habitat. If that doesn't stop the trend, at least more money would be in the bank for acquiring more land to put into public hunting. The guides initally will not care, they will just increase their fees, but it will make others who use them think twice about whether they want to the extra $. Eventually, i believe some outfitters will get out of the business and on to other endeavors. We can only hope!


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

The hunter would still be paying more to hunt, it should be handled at the state level, a tax levied on the G/O's who want to have land locked for their operations. You are right by targeting toward the G/O direction.


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## mfeining (Nov 2, 2002)

Dakota Kid, I just think that we should squeeze nr's for every nickel we can. Have you ever been to Hawaii? I've been there twice and you pay a 15% levy on everything if you can't produce a Hawaiian driver's license because they feel that being overrun by tourists should be worth something. I think they are dignified and very much on the right track. North Dakota may not have the greatest economy or tourist attractions, but it is becoming "the place" to hunt waterfowl in the U.S. I know there is no way to segregate NR waterfowl hunters and tax them accordingly, but I do not feel we are generating enough money from them for habitat, state, and above all, access. The distinction between waterfowl and small game licenses was a wonderful step in the right direction, but I think we can do more. The guide/habitat stamp idea is something worth looking into to impose a fee on those who choose to use guides because then not every nickel is going to the g/o. I think the answer to saving ND from g/o's is getting money into the hands of the G&FD to enhance access and habitat programs. Landowners need to be educated on what is happening to their fellow residents and we need to work WITH them to stop it.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

MF, your thinking on how to handle YOUR G/O problems is a joke, it makes no sense to make fellow hunters pay to access land. You need to go back through the posts starting in Sept. and learn some things. Most will agree that we are in it together when it comes to the G/O battle. You only will hurt the economy of ND with heavy handed tactics like you mention. Waterfowl hunting season is short and there are ways to capitalize on the monies brought in by NR's to benefit all, after all, the mighty dollar is where all trouble can be traced to.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

james s melson said:


> there are ways to capitalize on the monies brought in by NR's to benefit all,


--James, please explain? The "habitat stamp" for ALL hunters useing G/O was considered last year during the session. Farm Bureau of course laughed it off. It seemed like an idea with merit. It would be a use tax. If hunters prefer to pay rather than freelance on their own, they should pay more. If not a few rich guys will have it all.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Mr. Monson, I'm looking at hunting from the industry side of things on this post. Freelance hunting may come to an end if the G/O problem gets out of control, there will be more leasing and posting. Taxing the G/O will accomplishish two things, make it less economically attractive for them to stay in buisiness and provide money for land and projects dedicated to hunting. The G/O's don't waste money on land that will be non-productive, they go after the prime stuff. If a dry trend continues NR hunters will decrease and so will the money they bring in, some residents don't care if this happens, less competion for them in the field. The outdoor industry in ND will feel it and I don't think anyone on either border wants that to happen. This is more than "rich guy" vs. joe schmoe.


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## old dl guy (Nov 7, 2003)

James,

I say tax the the G/O's more but also impose a habitat stamp on the people who use them. Making the non residents who use a guide pay a little more to hunt doesn't seem too evil when the proceeds go to improving habitat and making more land open to freelancing. Freelance hunting is the backbone of hunting. It must be maintained or hunting will die a slow death. I don't understand your statement 
"If a dry trend continues NR hunters will decrease and so will the money they bring in, some residents don't care if this happens, less competion for them in the field. The outdoor industry in ND will feel it and I don't think anyone on either border wants that to happen. This is more than "rich guy" vs. joe schmoe." 
I think that is the exact point of taxing the g/o industry and imposing the habitat stamp.....do it so they feel it. If the same impact happens because of a drought...so be it. I want the g/o's to go away and i want hunting to become more about hunting and less about meat shooting. I want to have something i can enjoy with my grandchildren when they grow up. I don't want them to have to pay with a credit card to hunt. The g/o's are not part of the outdoor industry, they are part of the business industry. If some of their businesses fail......find another way to make a buck. I own and run a business myself and i know all the headaches that go with that. Its tough out there for everyone.


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## zack (Oct 17, 2003)

Gentlemen, I have followed your forum closely for the last 2 months and am impressed by the views and emotions that are expressed in some of the posts. I am a NR, but lived in your great state for over 20 years. My wife is from Bismarck and 3 of our 4 daughters have returned to ND for college or marriage. We also still own my wife's family farm. My wife and I returned to Minn for my family. I have hunted ND for many years and I
have personally seen the good and the bad, but that never stopped me. I
also have hunted Minn every year. Family on both sides of the border keep me buying licenses. I will admit, I have not hunted ND as much this year, but not because I don't want to. You have a wonderful resource and it must be cared for. G/O control and NR issues are a problem that seem intertwined. Supply and Demand is the driving force. G/Os supply the land and the demand for quality hunting is on the rise. I DO NOT pay to hunt,
but some people do and that is their choice. "Squeezing every nickle from NRs" is not the answer. Hawaii tourists have nothing to do with this, just like Minn fishing is a totally different story. I love hunting with my family and I will do so for as long as I can physically and financially afford to. A lot of you are pushing in the right direction and I look forward to my next ND outdoor adventure Dec 5 thru 8.Keep up the good work.
Zack


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

First I just wanted to say that I have had it with "the other web site" and their heavy handed (and sided) views. Mfeining; I tried to post a reply and view my opinion at 'the other' place but they did not post one reply, only the second. I was explaining why I let my "Premium" membership go to just a regular one. I am so sick and tired of reading the RES/NONRES issue that I couldn't take it any more! I want everyone to realize that we are all hunters and need to practice conservation everywhere to ensure that our past time can also be a 'past time' for our children. I just introduced my 15 year old son to the wonderful world of birding this year! He loved it but one of his statements starteld me when he asked if we were _residents or nonresidents_! Heres the story:

As some of you know I am Active Duty Army stationed in ND. I was born and raised in Minnesota but have lived and been stationed in Panama, SA; Washington State, Colorado, and many other places. I have enjoyed fishing and hunting everywhere I go. Because I am Military I am able to purchase a resident license. So what am I?

As I start to look for a place to retire (4 years away) I am weighing the issues that are so prominant here in ND and I really would love to retire here but I can not take the constant _ itching back and forth about the RES/NONRES issue. God, work together people! If you all spent half the energy _solving_ the issues as opposed to _itching about it you would have a resolution already! A complaint with out a bonifide resolution is a _ itch and helps to solve nothing. There are too many people in the 'other place' that do that so I have started to migrate here. I am all for debating the issues as long as you are open minded enough to realize that the other guy just might have a good idea and allow yourself to express that.

I am not a very good 'speaker' nor a speller but I just had to through my 200 cents in.

If you are not part of the fix then you are a part of the problem!

:sniper:


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

Great Job, SFC.

If hunters do not work together our great past time will just be the past!


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

"A complaint with out a bonifide resolution is a _ itch."

So what is your resolution?

This is not *****ing.This is a discussion about an idea to make non-res. pay and res. hunt for free.That is 1 persons resolution.There are many of us and no 2 agree on everything.As long as there are no personal attacks...complain all you want.If someone agrees ...OK, if not...that's OK too.


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## Shorthair (Sep 19, 2003)

Zack,
From your post
"G/Os supply the land and the demand for quality hunting is on the rise."

Technically G/O's do not supply the land the landowner does and until the state of North Dakota and or North Dakota sportsman can find a financial alternate to leasing that is on par with what the outfitters are paying per acre then this situation will not get better.
How much do G/O's pay per acre? 
Do they pay for only the fields that they are hunting or the whole farm?
If the G/O's only pay for the fields they hunt then one alternative might be a tax break and or payment for all acres owned as long as all of the land is left open to hunting for all.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

How about eliminating day leasing to guides.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Ken,

Help me here...are you saying to charge NONRES more and eliminate the RES fee? I do not uderstand.

My solution is to work _together_ and not against each other. I love to fish in Minnesota where I can drive 30 minutes and take a choice of lakes verses driving an hour to _a_ lake. If Minnesota did to 'us' what 'we' did to them, I do not think I would be able to fish there like I have been.

I personally believe that no matter if you are a NONRES/RES/G.O. or space alien that you should pay a heavier price to enjoy what we were all given by God. Everyone can still hunt some places and there is still plenty of game to be had, I believe we need to take care of what is left for the future hunting of our children.

In the immortal words of Dennis Miller, "Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong."

Leave'n some for the other guy...

:sniper:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

SFC.I'm not knocking you,

Go back and look at the title of this thread.That is 1 person's solution.That's all I'm saying.

Working together is what all of us want...but that is not a solution,it's a method.

what would you suggest should be done with...

increasing acres of leased land,

increasing numbers of non-res. hunters,

#1 complaint of non-res....PLOTS closed for 1 week,

Should res. only be allowed to hunt the first week,

Should there be zones for non-res.

Should they be able to hunt the entire season on 1 license,

These are just a few of the topics that need resolutions.

Not everyone agrees about all these things,but this is a good place to hash out suggestions even if they seem 1 sided or out of left field.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

I would suggest that people who want to make a difference join nodackoutdoors as a member, rather than a guest. Join the EREE listed on the left side of the home page. Join the ND Sportsman's Alliance at www.NDSPORTSMEN.org, an organization that wishs to preserve quality hunting for all hunters. Check out the *LEGISLATIVE SCORECARD* on this site, then give your legislators a group visit one at a time. Give them your views on sportsman's issues, pin them down, and hold them to it. Hold them tight. When 2048 was up for a revote, one of our Reps. was about to change his mind and vote against us. We made him sweat blood and he stuck with us. Your view is as good as any one elses so don't be afraid to stand up. Volunteer to speak on hunting issues as Mark Hamilton of Minot did when your local service clubs meet. They are always looking for a speaker. And put your name out there in the paper under a lettor to the editor. You sportsmen are the silent majority. Silent is going to lose. The market hunters count on you not to act.


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

How many G/Os licenses were sold this year? or last year?


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Shorthair,
One of my college friends who started farming two years ago told us while we were hunting three weeks ago that the lodge next to his house offered him $1 per acre. That is the going rate in the McClusky area. Thankfully he declined. A dollar an acre is nothing. However most farmers will gladly take it if they have to do nothing for it. I can see how guides are able to make alot of money. One good corn field in the right area can be hunted 5 times a season and lets say you bring four guys per time at 150 per day.


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## mfeining (Nov 2, 2002)

SFC Rude, It is in Minnesota where you should be able to see "the proof is in the pudding." From what I hear, Minnesota has as good if not better pheasant hunting than ND. They have just one small problem though. They can't access a place to hunt to save their lives. Why? Because, with a population of 5.5M and a wealthy economy and more than a few "well to do" hunters, it didn't take very long for the hunters to outnumber hunting areas and for many to feel the necessity to have a place of their own to hunt. I don't think comparing hunting with fishing holds much water. No man can purchase sole access to a fishing lake unless it's a pothole that he owns. This can and without question does happen all the time with hunting access. I certainly hope you don't feel guilty when you go fishing acrossed the border. If you do, I'll have to invite you to my hometown for the second weekend of pheasant season. The guilt would quickly subside.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Comparing pheasant hunting between MN & ND or SD doesn't make much sense, only 1/3 of MN is pheasant country and it's not owned by well to do hunters, its owned by farmers who have family and friends who hunt. We're not going to rehash the fishing thing again are we?


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

ALCON,

I just wanted to state that there are pros and cons to all areas and for all things. Minnesota has better fishing. Yes, 'we' have Sakakawea and DL but 'they' have excellent fishing which I do enjoy alot. If God is willing I will be ice fishing there in the next couple of weeks.

I just am not a firm believer in "If your not a Res. you pay more or can not hunt but a few days here and there, etc. etc". I would hate to think if Minnesota said you guys can fish but only 10 days a year in blocks of five days or whatever.

I am self-confessed ignorant on the issues someone asked me about. I do not have the answers, I am still learning the issues myself as I suggest _everyone_ does also.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

First off , Mn does not restrict hunting because there are not that many people that want to hunt there, except for deer. I currently pay $135 for an out of state TWO DAY LICENSE to hunt deer in MN. I think a res. licenes is about $30!! (don't quote me on that). I do it because it helps me get back to spend some quality time with my father in law and brother in law. My brother in law, by the way farms in MN and owns land there but bought a house in Fargo so he also pays out of state fees to hunt his own land!!! We never retaliated and threatened them with backlash when they did that to us!! Don't tell me that is a level playing field. There is just no way that you can compare hunting and fishing. You can catch walleyes with a boat not more than 5 feet away from you, I have done it and I am sure that everyone who has fished has done it. You cannot have two decoy spreads within the same 5 ft of each other with out some conflict. Hunting and fishing are just not the same animal. Don't tell me that MN doesn't have some barriers to out of state hunters. They just charge 'em all more and let them all come because they need to get rid of deer and very few are trying to go there to hunt waterfowl or upland!!!


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Djleye:

I don't follow your analogy comparing MN and ND deer hunting.
Your post empathized two day deer hunting, but that is all that 
zone probably offers. If you hunt in zone 1 or 2, your days are
anywhere from 8 to 15. Next you compare prices, so let's be
fair and compare ND and MN deer prices. As a MN NR you payed
$130 and I believe for a ND NR it is $200. Second, in MN you 
just go buy a license, in ND you have to apply for a license, then
be the luck of the draw. Let's make one thing clear, BOTH 
license would allow you to harvest a buck!


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Everyone in that zone 4 (MN resident or not) has a 2 day season. You can always move to zone 2 and get 9 days or move to zone 1 and pick up 16 days for your dollar.


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## Lars (Sep 5, 2003)

SFC Rude, HOOHAH to you. What are you, you ask? You have earned the right to be called a resident in whichever state you are assigned to as well as maintaining residency in a state of your choice...if you choose. I suggest doing what I do. Keep your residency in ND, pay their taxes, and maintain a duel residency. For the next four years, you can hunt under resident status in the state of your next assignment and ND. Works pretty good for me...I've been doing it for years.

Retire in whichever state you think has the best of what you desire to do most, whether it's hunting or fishing! You can fish good waters in ND or MN, maybe a little further away in ND but what the hell. Road trips are always fun. When I retire from the military, you will find me beating brush in ND because hunting is weighed heavier than fishing for me and personally, I think hunting in ND is pretty good.

Forget all the bickering on this site and make your own call...these guys that throw in their politics on practically every thread on this site have absolutely zero relevance to your hunt or the relationships you personally build with landowners after you've settled down for retirement...no matter which state you decide.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

PSDC... what is the cost per day of each license???? That is the comparison I am making. I have made the decision to pay it and hunt, My point is I am not *****ing and whining about it. No one forced me to do it, I just did it. That is the point!!


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Djleye:

Point taken. I assume you hunt in shotgun zone. A side note, I have
heard that MN may reopen the deer season for some zones. Apparently
the harvest was lower than expected. I have a hard time believing
that this may be true! Do you know any good optometrists in the 
Fargo/Moorhead area?


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## ringneck (Nov 25, 2003)

I dont see how you think this is any better than a g/o? They are still charging but not you so that is ok? The problem is that are too many people with too much money that in my oppion dont know the true sport of hunting. These type of guys no matter if they are NR or a R are willing to pay to hunt because to them shooting is everything. And no matter what you do it is going to be hard to shut out the guy with money they have too much already and it does not really matter what you do when you have money you seem to find a way. Dont get me wrong i am not a fan of the charging to hunt and i dont pay to hunt myself. I put in my time to find the few land owners that will let me hunt without paying them. My main problem is that me like yourself dont own any land and it is Residents that dont own any land that want to tell these farmers what they can and cant do with their land and how many hunters can hunt in the state. I find plenty of land that I dont have to pay for it might take a little more effort on my part but you have the same chance as me to do the same. I dont think it is any more of your right as a resident to access these parcels of land before anyone else because they are not yours in the first place they are the farmers to do with what he chooses.


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