# Teaching Drop it



## kellange123 (May 30, 2007)

I have a 5 month old Golden Retriever. She has been fetching since she was 7 weeks old, I just haven't gotten the drop it down with her yet. She will drop it, but randomly, sometimes almost throwing it at me. She will do a good drop if I have a treat in hand, or she knows I have treats in my pockets. How do I get her to drop it at my feet rather than where ever she chooses.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

You dont want her to drop it you want her to hold it and sit at your feet until you take it gently from her.


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## kellange123 (May 30, 2007)

Bobm said:


> You dont want her to drop it you want her to hold it and sit at your feet until you take it gently from her.


That makes more sense. How do I teach that? When she steals my socks I grab the back of her jaw and say drop it, but sometimes need some encouraging.


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## mdaniel (May 2, 2007)

Bobm Posted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You dont want her to drop it you want her to hold it and sit at your feet until you take it gently from her.

All I will add is Bob is 100% correct. As this is a Bad habit to break and since Goldens are very easy to teach, as I use to have several. I will post a Web site that will help, and have used this method to train. A Release or Give command is the way to go. And you will be happy with the results.

http://www.ducks.org/Hunting/RetrieverT ... artII.html


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Don't worry about it now, you'll correct that when dog is 6-8 months old and you force break her. That is, you WILL force break her if you want to eliminate these future problems like this that can crop up throughout her life.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

GH, while you are correct about the advantages of FF I would say that the vast a majority of hunters don't do it, they don't have the skill, or the will to go thru with it.

So tell him the steps to teach "hold" and "give", thats pretty easy for a non pro to teach and will probably get him what he needs for now.

I've learned some stuff from you in other posts and would like to see how you would teach these two simple commands. I like to learn new methods.
Thanks


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## mdaniel (May 2, 2007)

GH & BM, I would have to disagree in force breaking a young Golden. 
And as a previous Breeder of Goldens, Training several of them. This is why, as I had one of mine force broke. by a PRO and after that I had to give her up as she never hunted, and became a Heel Dog. 
The reason I say this is Goldens have a very good demand in pleasing their owner. The B#tch has a very early mature rate than the males. As all of my Males where hard headed. But when I used a Dowl and taught the HOLD & Release with everyone of them retrieved 100% percent. 
Being a young Golden is a advantage, they learn very quickly and have very Good tempermints. Training in short period of times, and let them drop it, using retrieving as a play time works the best for me.

Well this is only my thaught, and previous experience of having Goldens, they LOVE PRAISE>>


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I never force break my own dogs and have done enough of other peoples dogs to not like the process. I don't believe most well bred retrievers or continental dogs like shorthairs need it, but some most certainly do.

However I do not believe that a golden or any other dog is damaged by the force breaking process IF its done correctly. FF will allow corrections for a bunch of things a dog may do wrong.

The fact that most novices wont follow the whole FF process though to the end is why I asked him to comment in more detail.

Thats why I asked GH to give his method of just teaching hold and give, GH is a very knowlegable retriever trainer in my opinion and picking his brain is a worthwhile thing for all of you. I am intersted in his methods also.

His no nonsense approach to training may seem gruff to some of you but as a pro his experience exceeds mine. And trust me when you are training other folks dogs its a "get it done" situation, and frustrating because most of your clients don't take the time to really know their dogs and undo about half the stuff you teach their dogs.

Which is why I grew tired of it and got out of it, it made me start to look at dogs as a pain in the *** instead of the lifelong pleasure I always considered them.


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

I have FF many dogs and I agree that most novice trainers will leave out a step and that is nothing but big trouble!!!!

I sit the dog and place a paint roller in the dogs mouth and command hold.I watch the dog and repeat "hold" and when the dog gets sloppy or starts to drop the paint roller I cup with a small pop on the bottom of the dogs snout and command hold.I then wait and command drop or give.
There is a DVD that I offer on my site called FowlDawgs 1 that shows the hold drop method as well as the complete FF process.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Thank's Bobm. Mdaniel; you are absolutely wrong about this. You MAY have gone to a bad trainer or you MAY have had a dog that wasn't much of a dog anyhow, but if it's one thing force NEVER does when properly executed, is to ruin a dog. But enough of a rant, on the hold and drop.

Take a plank (2x10 or equivalent size plywood strip 8' long) and place it between two chairs. Many people make a regular bench, but for one dog it would be a waste of your time and money. Don't worry if pup doens't want to jump up on the bench; just pick him up and plunk him down there. Have a 1" collar and a leash on him.

You'll hold the lead in your left hand with about 1' of slack in it. Have a 1" wooden dowel in your left hand. I really like the one the dog supply houses sell because it's rough and kind of non slip. With your left hand, pinch the dogs upper gums against his canine teeth, say fetch, and when he opens up, PULL UP ON HIS LIPS to clear them of the canines and place the dowel in his mouth. With your right hand tap, not beat, under his chin to keep his nose pointed up and command "hold". Don't let him spit it out at first. If he gets beligerant, give him a light cuff and tell him NO, HOLD!. Make him sit quietly, nose in the air, and hold it. Now say DROP and remove it from his mouth. Do it again. And again and again and again until when you touch his lips and say "fetch", he opens up, takes the dowell, and quietly hold it, either sitting or standing. When he understands the drill, start tapping the dowel. You're daring him to drop it. If he does, pick it up, pinch his gums, and put it back it. He only drops when you tell him to, not when he wants to.

Before you start this, the dog should be totally obedience trained. When he does this perfectly, get him off the bench. Sit him on the ground by your side, hold the dowell in front of his nose and command "fetch". He won't understand and you'll have to start all over again with him on the ground. A dog is a place driven animal and has to learn commands in anew each time you change training [email protected] the bench, the yard, the field. Now when he starts taking and holding it without a problem, command "drop". He won't unless you pull it out of his mouth. Gently pivot your let toe over his right paw, softly step down, and command drop. He will. A dog's paw's are very tender so never, ever, get mad and stomp on them. Do this drill until the dog takes the dowel on command, holds it on command, and drops it IN YOUR HAND on command.

Now we have to get him moving. Command fetch, hold, and then heel. He'll imediately spit it out. Pick it up, pinch his gums, say fetch and heel him again. You'll eventuall win. He'll get mad, you'll get mad, but persevere and you'll be rewarded. When you can walk him at heel and he doesn't drop it, proceed to the next step. You guessed it; fetch, hold but now SIT. Walk 6' away from him, and command here or heel. A retriever should come to heel by coming to your left side, turning to his left, and sitting by your side, facing forward, holding the dowel firmly. When he does these drills enerringly, next step.

Now switch him to a training bumper and do it all over again.

He's nearly done now. Now we'll get him retrieving. Make it fun but you'll have to reinforce the drills. Have him on a 30' CC. Whoop it up and throw out a bumper, sending him immediately. As SOON As, The Very Instant, he picks it up, say HOLD and reel him gently in. You guessed it. If he spits it out, calmly walk out, and it's fetch, hold, heel, drop. This can take a long time since it is in no way a real force program. The only pressure really applied is the gum pinch. That's about it. When he's done on bumpers, you'll have to re-do it on birds. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Patience, patience, patience.

Never plead with a dog, never offer him treats to perform a task, never let him refuse a command. That's it. Good luck with him.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

There you guys now have an excellent way to teach your dog without the pain for you and your dog of the FF program, slower but all most dogs will need and unlike a pro you have plenty of time.

You ought to copy it and save it in your computers.

GH
Very good explanation found it very interesting. I have quick question do you really hold the leash, do the lip pinch and hold the dowel in your left hand.

I've always stuck the dowel in with my right hand then give them a light poke in the V under their jaw.


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## mdaniel (May 2, 2007)

GH I see where you are coming from and is a excelant post. 
AS there are alot of good Pro trainers out thier. I don't now how Corky got mest up. But it made me a better trainer. The one thing that alot of Trainers forget to do is to Train the people, the right steps first. then the dog.

I like the way Mike Stewart
Wildrose Kennels - Home of Drake the DU Dog article explains how to train. And know it works well.

But the one thing nice about this SITE ND is you can get alot of good advise from good trainers.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Bobm said:


> There you guys now have an excellent way to teach your dog without the pain for you and your dog of the FF program, slower but all most dogs will need and unlike a pro you have plenty of time.
> 
> You ought to copy it and save it in your computers.
> 
> ...


OOPS! No! One of my infamous typo's. I hold the leash in my left hand, pinch gums with my left, put dowel in with my right. Nice catch Bobm. Guy's would think I'm coordinated and I can barely stand up! The leash is really just for control incase the dog tries to bite or bales off the table. A safety valve.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

gonehuntin' said:


> OOPS! No! One of my infamous typo's. I hold the leash in my left hand, pinch gums with my left, put dowel in with my right. Nice catch Bobm. Guy's would think I'm coordinated and I can barely stand up! The leash is really just for control incase the dog tries to bite or bales off the table. A safety valve.


Who you tryin to kid! DD's aren't going to put up with owners who can't stand! They'd have run you outta town by now! :beer:

OK, here's my 2 cents... While GH provides a nice way to train a retreive, and I know Bob doesn't much care for FF,.....my question is....if someone were to take the time to follow the training guide GH laid out, why wouldn't they just take it the extra step to breaking the dog?

GH has laid out all the foundation work for force breaking, anyone who followed his info would be well on their way to breaking the dog. By the time someone got the dog reliable to the point GH has taken it, the dog would be well versed in the command, already understanding that fetch means fetch and that he will be made to make the retreve anyway. Taking it a step or two further by driving the dog to piles and incorporating the collar would not be that big of a transition at that point.

A whoa post is another good tool to use if the dog is too unruly when teaching a fetch program. Pretty easy to set up and good way to eliminate the leash until the dog is comfortable in the process.

Another question for bob and gh. You guys have a lot more experience than I do so I was wondering what the benefit of using the word HOLD is? I use FETCH only. It just seems like it's easier, one word means go get it and hold it til I tell you to drop or release. Am I missing something by not using the HOLD command?


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Obviously, I'm a very staunch ff advocate and have never owned a dog that wasn't force broken. All of the problems in ff come when the dog has to pick up from the ground. There is a huge difference in just teaching a dog to hold, or in teaching him "driving" commands such as fetch and back at distances. A person cannot get into trouble with a dog by giving it a course in hold only, but they sure can trying to ff the dog.

You don't have to use hold; do what you want. A trainer uses the three commands, fetch, hold, drop, because on a fully force broken dog, each command means a separate thing. Fetch is a "driving" command that always demands forward motion from the dog. It instill movement. Hold is a command used to control the jaws of a dog. When a dog is told "hold", he sits or stands quietly there *with no jaw movement*_ until commanded to relase the object with the drop command. Drop obviously means to OPEN YOUR MOUTH, NOSE POINTED UP, AND BACK YOUR HEAD AWAY FROM THE TRAINING OBJECT, RELEASING IT CLEANLY. Now all this stuff can get pretty technical but the purpose of my answer was to simply teach a dog to hold with no pressure or pain in a manner the owner could get himself in no trouble doing.

So no, you don't have to use hold but a dog is a very stupid creature and anything you can do to simplify his understanding of your commands is appreciated by him. If you use fetch to drive to an object and fetch to keep his jaws still, it gets or can get confusing to him. He's sitting there happily mouthing his bumper and you tell him NO, FETCH! He looks at you like "Well, the ol' man's finally flipped. What the hell's he think I'm holding?" The easier time a dog has understanding a training program, the faster and easier time you'll have training him. Keep it simple, keep it consistant._


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

*EDIT I guess I was typing this when GH was typing his and basically repeated what he said...*

its astep by step process hold means hold to the dog, fetch means reach or drive forward to the dog

Mike, the reason this method is useful is many people me included dont like the ear pinching scraping, the ear raw method ( I'm not going to debate it) I just don't like to hurt my dog period.

And IMO most well bred continental dogs like my shorthairs and your fuzzy faced alligator dont need it. Very few retrievers need it also, most of those dogs retrieve with a passion naturally.

Setters pointers maybe 50% do, and unless you're are trialer or do hunt tests they dont need it either.

GH is a ardent FF guy by the way, but he was a pro field trail retriever trainer. He knows a lot more about retriever training than I do.

And I know more than most people :wink:


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

OK gh, thanks for the clarification, makes sense. But maybe I didn't fully explain myself. When I FF a dog, when going through the HOLD phase, I simply say fetch instead of hold. The dog still learns how to properly handle the object, and is also taught not to drop until that command is given.

My point is, the dog learns and performs the same tasks, just with one less command. To me, like you said, keeping it simple is the key. One word for two tasks. It seems to me it would be easier for the dog to learn one command instead of two.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head where the HOLD command would be less instruction is if I had the dog at heel, whoa or sit and wanted him to stay there while he's holding something. At that point I may have to give two commands to get him straightend out.....fetch, sit. Since saying fetch would tell the dog to come around to me at heel, he'd have to be redirected to fetch, sit. Whereas you may be able to keep the dog in a sitting position and have him HOLD by just commanding HOLD.

GH, so when you give the command to fetch, do you have to give the hold command when he comes back to heel for release? Or does the dog just figure it out on his own that fetch means go get it, come to heel and hold until commanded to release? It just seems to me that HOLD is a command that eventually goes by the wayside anyway, so why train it using that word?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> It just seems to me that HOLD is a command that eventually goes by the wayside anyway, so why train it using that word?


It does go away, unless the dog starts to spit it out, which he will at first.

The thing is you have to build a foundation of understanding until you can get the dog to hold it, getting them to reach for it is harder. I guess you could just use fetch but the dog will progress quicker if you teach hold first, and quick is important when you train for other people. Time is money.

There always more than one way to train a dog but hold is universally taught by almost every retriever trainer prior to fetch even in FF programs that I know of.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Bob, don't get me wrong, I'm not discounting your methods or beliefs, and don't really even want to debate either! I understand what you are saying and agree with you. I don't want to hurt my dog either.

My experience is limited compared to you guys. I've fully FF'd one dog (my own) and helped several others with their dogs. Each time the process has not really been that bad. They have all been continentals so they have alot of natural retrieve anyway, so it doesnt take too much "pain" to complete the process. I guess I've been lucky and haven't had to deal with cases like some of the horror stories of FF.

One thing I have noticed about FFing is that the dogs with real high retreive desire have been tougher than some of the others. One dog in particular, was a griff who retreive almost anything! This dog will retreive a 25lb bag of shot! I'm not kidding! That dogs back feet were almost off the ground! He loves to retreive! However, there was a day, when that dog was sent after his first big goose...he didn't retreive it! He was confused by the shear size of the bird I'd guess. The problem lied in the fact the trainer couldn't really find anything to force break the dog in the first place! Everything he sent the dog after got retreived accept that goose! The dog did eventually retreive that goose after another dog brought it back....a little field training force break took place that morning....not a serious problem....just found it interesting. That dog will now get geese too along with 25lbs of shot!


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Bobm said:



> > It just seems to me that HOLD is a command that eventually goes by the wayside anyway, so why train it using that word?
> 
> 
> It does go away, unless the dog starts to spit it out, which he will at first.
> ...


OK, I still don't understand! If hold goes away, why teach hold? The dog doesn't know the difference. At that stage in the game, the dog is actually learning to hold with the command FETCH. The dog will eventually learn that fetch is a command that performs several functions, so why add in the additional language? The less words we use the better right?

When the dog spits out the bumper or dowel, why don't trainers replace the word hold with fetch? It will give you the same results using less words...seems like it would be less confusing to the dog.

It just seems to me that adding the HOLD command is not the quickest way from point a to point b?

*EDIT ADDITION* I'm not challenging the countless years of experience that pro trainers have. I know most of them train the HOLD command....I'm just confused as to why they do it. I personally don't understand the need for using that word.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Repetition is even useful for young dog trainers :lol:

you get the dog to hold first with no forward movement because that is simple for him to learn

then you get the dog that now understands he is supposed to hold to reach with fetch in th dogs mind these are two different actions.

And you are correct you have trained a dog that has a strong natural retrieve try some damn setter or pointer than no way wants to hold that dowel and you will see why we teach hold first.

I have had a setter that would not hold no matter what, I would of had to ruin that dog to get it to hold, I mean I was FF ing her to the max and she would still spit it out the second I took the pressure off. And trust me when I was young and mean like you :wink: I would apply lots of pressure when it was needed.

I bet I stuck that dowel in her mouth 5000 times no kidding, ear pinch toe hitch you name it, day after day. I finally gave up told the guy to put up with it. She was a bird finding machine and a rock steady pointing dog, two out of three isn't bad.



> EDIT ADDITION I'm not challenging the countless years of experience that pro trainers have. I know most of them train the HOLD command....I'm just confused as to why they do it. I personally don't understand the need for using that word.


Mike, you're a better trainer than I am and a lot more dedicated my dogs get away with a lot of crap I would of never tolerated in dogs I trained for other folks......I am like aplumber with leaky faucets do as I say not as I do 

Takes a lot of dedication and diligence to get a dog to the level of your dog, I am impressed and I mean this sincerely I'm not being my usaul smart *** self :beer:


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Bobm said:


> you get the dog to hold first with no forward movement because that is simple for him to learn
> 
> then you get the dog that now understands he is supposed to hold to reach with fetch in th dogs mind these are two different actions.


OK, ding,ding,ding...the bell is ringing, I think I might see where it is useful. I can see a _potential_ problem occur between these stages as fetch in this case means more than hold. It may be useful to help the dog move toward the bumper. However, I have yet to have an issue with using just fetch. Good to know though, I may need to teach HOLD someday.



Bobm said:


> She was a bird finding machine and a rock steady pointing dog, two out of three isn't bad.:


You got that right! Two outta three aint bad at all.



Bobm said:


> Mike, you're a better trainer than I am and a lot more dedicated my dogs get away with a lot of crap I would of never tolerated in dogs I trained for other folks......I am like aplumber with leaky faucets do as I say not as I do  :


I wouldn't say I'm a better trainer than you Bob. I just have a better dog (one with a beard) :lol: Just kidding! And besides that....you STILL haven't actually seen my dog and I work! It's not the "pretty" picture you paint! Trust me.....we both have lots of room for improvement!


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## mdaniel (May 2, 2007)

If I may put my two cent in, as I see where FFing has it good training points. Me, I'am not comfortable with it.

Quote: 
It just seems to me that HOLD is a command that eventually goes by the wayside anyway, so why train it using that word?

The HOLD command was set by the AKC for scoring.As for the dog not to drop the object as this is a 30 point test. Bear did this to me in a open OB trial once. As I was waiting for the Judge to tell me to take it. Don't get me wrong as he held the object he thaught that he was done. After inforcing a Hold he never did it again. When your in a ring with lots of distraction you want the dog to wait for your command and your's only.

For me I use several commands, Fetch, Here, Hold,Sit,Release,Heel, and Back out..
Also we use Stand, Down,Kennel, and Stay
As most hunters shoot more than one bird, I use the Back Out command which has been very good as we throw several dummies and Jackson knows to retrieve another bird. He dose everything except he hates the HOLD command. As he is improving, but with him dropping the dummie I know I will loose a 30 point trail.

Do you guys use the Back OUT command?


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

mdaniel said:


> The HOLD command was set by the AKC for scoring.As for the dog not to drop the object as this is a 30 point test. Bear did this to me in a open OB trial once. As I was waiting for the Judge to tell me to take it. Don't get me wrong as he held the object he thaught that he was done. After inforcing a Hold he never did it again. When your in a ring with lots of distraction you want the dog to wait for your command and your's only.


 No offense, but it the dog would have been force broke, FETCH would have been the only command needed to pass that portion of the test. FETCH means hold it til I say DROP. A person can use whatever terms they want to I guess, fetch, hold, drop, give, release.....An ear tap really helps with the holding process, as well as teaching steadiness. The dogs learn not to release until they are actually physically touched on the ear and given the command. Helps re inforce the command.



mdaniel said:


> Do you guys use the Back OUT command?


Once again, ONE command.....FETCH, with the possibility of saying DEAD BIRD, that's how I do it. If a dog is force broke properly, he should do a blind search with the command FETCH.

My 2 cents :beer:


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Fetch and hold do NOT mean the same thing. FETCH tells a dog he MUST move forward and pick up and object. In later training this command will have BACK substituted for it, but it'll always be there. Again, FETCH is a command that ALWAYS drives a dog and causes motion, it has absolutely nothing to do with jaw control.

Hold is a static command and means "Sit there quietly and hold the retrieved object with NO MOVEMENT OF THE JAWS". It does not tell a dog to go forward, back, or to the sides. It is taught strictly as a command for controling movement of a dog's jaws. If you have a dog with mouth problems ( too loose, too hard, bird eater) it becomes the basis for curing that fault in a dog by controling the movement of the jaws.

A BEGINING retrieving sequence might go like this when there is a bumper on the ground 10' in front of you. Fetch (the dog lunges forward to the dummy and picks it up). Hold (the dog now has the bumper in him mouth). Heel, hold ( the dog returns to heel holding the bumper). Drop. The dog opens his mouth and backs his head away from the bumper which you have a hold of. Can you now see the value in this? It is not a superfluous command, it is a very important command that add's another sound building block to the dog's foundation.

Now, let's say you are most unfortunate and get a dog that crunches or (shudder) eats birds. If the dog has not been taught jaw control and the hold command, how do you stop this? If you tell cruncher NO, FETCH as he's happily crunching away, what will he do? He'll crunch harder and faster. If you say NO, HOLD! he dang well better stop working those jaws and sit quietly with the bird. See the value? You may never need it, but if you do, it's at your disposal to use.

That being said, if fetch only works for you, use it. A professional works and uses methods that can account for any problem he may run into. I'm not going to argue the point. I remember once thread over on Versatiledogs that ran for something like 15 to 20 pages of very heated lingo and no one ever convinced the other. I have given you the reasoning behind the use of the hold command. Whether or not you choose to use it is and individual preference. The more building material you put into a house, the stronger that house becomes. A dog's foundation is the same way.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Good Post GH![/i]


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## WadeismyHERO (Jun 2, 2007)

I just got my first pup, a yellow lab. She was 7 weeks old when we brought her home and has been retrieving almost since we picked her up. She loves it. But when it comes to her giving me the dummy she gets very aggresive. The scars on my fingers prove this. Any advice on how to get a young pup to give when she brings the dummy back? Any help would be greatly appreciated.[/img]


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Kellange123; have you even bothered to read this thread?


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## WadeismyHERO (Jun 2, 2007)

I read through all of the replies here and I have a question on why teach a dog to hold? I am trying to get her to give me the dummy...not to keep it. I am guessing there is a simple answer to this question just curious. She will drop the dummy when I ignore her and she'll just walk off. Thats about the only time I can get the dummy from her and hopefully she doesn't see me picking it up or she will jump on it and bite down as hard as she can. Usually with my fingers between the dummy and her sharp puppy teeth. And if I do grab on to the dummy when it is in her mouth she snaps at it again towards my hand and unless I grab her collar and tear it out of her mouth I am not getting it. And I feel I am just teaching her to play tug of war with me when I do this.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

To teach her to drop, she has to know obedience and the Hold course. Once she'll sit and stay when you tell her to sit, and hold the bumper until told to drop, you'll be able to get the bumper. Read my post. With her sitting and holding, swing your left foot over her right foot and gently step on it saying "drolp". She'll drop, guaranteed. You CAN'T skip steps. No, NO, No. Follow the sequence I laid out whether or not you think you have to.


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

All I can say about this thread is WOW. I love to work with my dogs, even though I'm a total amateur. I force fetch them myself (leather gloves are required). I read everything I can, and in my opinion, my dogs rock. But whatever. This is without a doubt the best thread I have read on this site. For those of you starting out, the gospel according to "gonehuntin" is the way to go. Believe it.


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## mdaniel (May 2, 2007)

gonehuntin I would like to commend you for this Post.. As I have read all of it and see where you are coming from.. As your instructions are well done.. As a Trainer myself I can see a few things that will help me.. 
The one thing that is hard to get across to some clients is the process to follow. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Patience, patience, patience.

But any how thanks for the great thread.. :beer:


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

gonehuntin' said:


> Kellange123; have you even bothered to read this thread?


 :beer: Funny how that works sometimes huh?!

I kinda feel like a black sheep for not using that H word! I wonder if my dog is really force broke since I didn't use it!


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

WadeismyHERO said:


> I read through all of the replies here and I have a question on why teach a dog to hold? I am trying to get her to give me the dummy...not to keep it. I am guessing there is a simple answer to this question just curious. She will drop the dummy when I ignore her and she'll just walk off. Thats about the only time I can get the dummy from her and hopefully she doesn't see me picking it up or she will jump on it and bite down as hard as she can. Usually with my fingers between the dummy and her sharp puppy teeth. And if I do grab on to the dummy when it is in her mouth she snaps at it again towards my hand and unless I grab her collar and tear it out of her mouth I am not getting it. And I feel I am just teaching her to play tug of war with me when I do this.


WadeismyHERO- Do as GH stated, it will work. Keep in mind you have a real young pup. Keep the training sessions short and sweet, and always fun with a dog that young. Bring out the bumpers when you want to train, they are not toys. Don't tear items from her mouth, that does promote tug of war.

Try this too. Let her bring the dummy back to you, gently grab her collar and praise her while she's holding the dummy. Keep holding her til she gets bored holding the dummy, just as she is about to open her mouth, give the command DROP and catch the dummy in your hand. Give more praise.

If she holds onto the dummy for too long of a time and starts hard mouthing or chewing on it, simply give a short, hard blow of breath into her nose and command drop, catch the dummy and praise. Blowing into their nose will almost always cause them to open their mouth. No pressure, no pain, no tug of war.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I let them hold it sitting in front of me and kneel down next to them and pet them for a while so they learn that holding a dummy or bird, until I ask for it, is what I want. I've seen dogs run up to people and spit out a phesant and watched the pheasant fly off.

Thats why teach hold to the question one guy asked above.

to get a release I grasp the dummy and gently push it back into the dogs mouth while I give the relase command " I use the word give".

If you push something into a dogs mouth they will want to spit it out if you pull it away from them their natural reaction is to tighten their hold on it.

Mike, I blew into a setters face once and she bit me on the nose , not real hard but it did smart a little. She was a nice dog I think it just spooked her and she reacted defensively. I quit doing that after that happened :lol:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

GoneHunting :beer: :beer:

Very good explanations, especially about the bird munching value of hold I never have had that problem but will definitely use it if it happens in the future.

thanks

You are a very valuable resource to this site, your ability to explain details is excellent.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Bobm said:


> Mike, I blew into a setters face once and she bit me on the nose , not real hard but it did smart a little. She was a nice dog I think it just spooked her and she reacted defensively. I quit doing that after that happened :lol:


 :toofunny:

It's no wonder you don't own a setter! You don't seem to have had much luck with them!

Little tip when blowing into dogs nose.....stand up quickly!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

:lol: :lol:

wait to you get another 20 years on that hind end of yours and we will see how your definition of "quickly" changes

Just standing up can be a challenge some mornings....


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