# teachers unions ruining education ( ha ha DJ )



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

The teachers unions are mad at me
By John Stossel

Mar 8, 2006

Teachers unions are mad at me. The New York State United Teachers demands I apologize for my "gutter level" journalism, "an irresponsible assault on public school students and teachers." This is because I hosted an ABC News TV special titled "Stupid in America," which pointed out:

-- American fourth graders do well on international tests, but by high school, Americans have fallen behind kids in most other countries.

-- The constant refrain that "public schools need more money" is nonsense. Many countries that spend significantly less on education do better than we do. School spending in America (adjusted for inflation) has more than tripled over the past 30 years, but national test scores are flat. The average per-pupil cost today is an astonishing $10,000 per student -- $200,000 per classroom! Think about how many teachers you could hire, and how much better you could do with that amount of money.

-- Most American parents give their kids' schools an A or B grade, but that's only because, without market competition, they don't know what they might have had. The educators who conduct the international tests say that most of the countries that do best are those that give school managers autonomy, and give parents and students the right to choose their schools. Competition forces private and public schools to improve.

-- There is little K-12 education competition in America because public schools are a government monopoly. Monopolies rarely innovate, and union-dominated monopolies, burdened with contracts filled with a hundred pages of suffocating rules, are worse. The head of New York City's schools told me that the union's rules "reward mediocrity."

All that angered the unions. But when they criticize my "bias and ignorance," *I don't hear them refute the points listed above. They don't refute them because they can't.* It's just a fact that rules that insist an energetic, hard-working teacher who makes learning fun must be paid exactly the same as a lazy, incompetent teacher are rules that promote mediocrity.

Ironically, before I did "Stupid in America," the New York teachers union wanted to give me an award. The United Federation of Teachers' Social Studies Conference wrote: "Our organization, ATSS/UFT, would be proud to present you with the Hubert H. Humphrey Humanitarian Award for the outstanding work which you have done for social causes. ... Your development and generous sponsorship of In the Classroom Media provide students with the opportunity to enhance their civics education. This is the highest award that we can give to an individual. Past honorees have included Mario Cuomo, Shirley Chisholm, Charles Schumer, Dolores Huerta, Major Owens, Charles Rangel ... "

Wow! Chuck Schumer, Charlie Rangel and me! Alas, after my education special aired, they decided not to give me the award. Apparently my work with In the Classroom Media -- which provides teachers with videos about the free market -- only helps kids as long as I stay away from the "social cause" most relevant to them: their education.

Instead, teachers' unions announced that Wednesday (3/8), they will hold demonstrations against me and ABC in New York City, Chicago, Atlanta, Detroit, and elsewhere. One police permit suggests the crowd outside my office will number 750-1,000 people. It should be interesting.

"We want to make sure that ABC hears the voices of incredibly hard-working teachers," says the union website, quoting New York City's UFT President Randi Weingarten. "The network needs to hear how unfair and biased those of you in the trenches believe their broadcast to have been."

I'm sorry that union teachers are mad at me. But when it comes to the union-dominated monopoly, the facts are inescapable. Many kids are miserable in bad schools. If they are not rich enough to move, or to pay for private school, they are trapped.

It doesn't have to be that way. We know what works: choice. That's what's brought Americans better computers, phones, movies, music, supermarkets -- most everything we have. Schoolchildren deserve the joyous benefits of market competition too. :beer:

Unions say, "education of the children is too important to be left to the vagaries of the market." The opposite is true. Education is too important to be left to the calcified union/government monopoly.

Award-winning news correspondent John Stossel is co-anchor of ABC News "20/20" and author of "Give Me a Break."


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

More evidence of teachers unions screwing our youth

Reprinted from NewsMax.com

Tuesday, March 7, 2006 2:32 p.m. EST
N.O. Public Schools 'Abysmal' Before Katrina

With just one-sixth of its schools capable of operating and the rest deemed unsafe or unready for use as a result of Hurricane Katrina, educators in New Orleans are struggling to get the entire school system up and running in the face of opposition from the City's teacher's union.

Still unprepared for the coming hurricane season, and plagued by numerous other financial and structural problems, New Orleans has managed to get some of its schools in operation, but nowhere near enough as many to satisfy the United Teachers of New Orleans, which represents about 4,000 teachers who have been unable to return to work. USA Today reports that the union has sued to force the city to open more schools.

In an editorial USA Today wrote that "Before Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans was arguably the nation's worst urban school district, but Katrina has given the city and the state "a rare opportunity for a fresh start, one that could produce a model for other struggling systems across the USA."

Working step-by-step, officials insist that undue haste to reopen schools risks a return to a dismal past as described by USA Today:

Only 44 percent of fourth-graders were proficient in reading and 26 percent were proficient in math during the 2004-05 school year. Among eighth-graders, only 26 percent were proficient in reading, 15 percent in math.

Three out of every four schools were declared "academically unacceptable" by the state in the 2003-04 school year.

Deficits and allegations of corruption prompted the state to bring in the same New York turnaround firm hired to rescue schools in St. Louis.

After reviewing the books in New Orleans, the takeover experts declared that New Orleans' situation was worse than the notoriously mismanaged school system in St. Louis.

Says USA Today, only by moving carefully can the district grow and adapt.

According to the newspaper, the state Legislature in November seized control of 102 of the district's schools in recognition of the fact that New Orleans was incapable of running its schools alone. Since then both have followed a carefully designed plan where the governor and the state's schools chief appear to be opening only as many schools as are presently needed and imposing quality controls on those that do open.

According to Louisiana officials New Orleans served 56,000 students before Katrina while today it's handling nearly 10,000 students with a capacity for 2,000 more.

That's not enough to satisfy the union whose leaders argue that by returning soon to a larger school district, ready or not, the city will be able to lure more citizens with a sense of normalcy, ignoring what constituted normalcy before Katrina when the city's schools were among the nation's worst.

One bright spot is the arrival of a highly acclaimed charter school in New Orleans which hopefully marks the beginning of a charter school system in the city. In July a KIPP (Knowledge is Power Program) school, probably the nation's most successful charter school system came to the city and other charter schools with successful track records have been asked to come to New Orleans.

Since they do their own hiring, picking only the best of the former union members, teacher's union opposition is certain. School reformers told the newspaper that the union is pressing to open traditional schools quickly as a way of getting more of its members back on the payroll.

Says USA Today "If state education leaders are allowed to lay out their plan deliberately, in years to come Los Angeles, Detroit and other cities with troubled schools will come to New Orleans to learn valuable lessons. Opening schools for the sake of opening schools, however, would only compromise that dream."


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Come on Bob....I belong to the teacher's union and I haven't screwed any youth.So please don't make that kind of blanket statement.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Its not a blanket statement

the telling point is you don't disagree with the articles you just want to point out that all members don't agree with the union.

Point taken, and I never said you would, I think too much of you to believe that.

But the unions do not have student interests in mind.
They are without question harming educational standards in this country,
do something about it.

Or explain why you cannot????

I have spoken to many teachers that secretly don't agree with the union but they won't rock the boat.

Why is that??can they somehow hurt an individual teacher if they demand change???

You probably know better than anyone on here I really would like to know what you think about it.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

the parents that have to instill in their children the desire to want to learn. All you have to do is walk into a home and see what they have for books and reading material. If a home does not encourage reading good books at a early age the children are already handicapped.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Bob....this statement "More evidence of teachers unions screwing our youth" sure looks like a blanket statement.If you don't mean all teahcers in the NEA,then don't say it that way.We are not screwing youth.

Do you really believe union members in ND,with the smallest represntation, have much influence in what goes on in NEA?

I want to belong to the local and state associations,for liability insurance and the right to have a say in negotiations.....to do that I have no choice but to belong to the national association also.So we out here in the sticks are a voice in the wilderness nationally.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Hang on to your pants Bob. Last time I approached this subject about the only name I wasn't called was a child molester. Like Stossel I was stoned out of the class room also and by the same people. You can't help the willingly blind see no matter what you say or show them. Good luck........


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## fox412 (Mar 18, 2005)

Oh Gohon your words are so true. Your right you can't help the willingly blind to see know matter what you say or show them.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

isppointing answer Ken, teachers unions are undeniably screwing out youth and all you can say is not all teachers. I never said all teachers I said the unions and their adjenda. So either comment on the topic or don't, but don't whine about things I did not say.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Whoa....I'm not whining......I guess the following statement means something different to you than it does to me....."More evidence of teachers unions screwing our youth"....So be it.....


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

No problem Ken I just wanted you to know it wasn't directed at you or any specific teacher.

Its just like so many things going on this country, seems like the jockeying for power and politics of many things are preventing common sense. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt there are many teachers that think the union is doing some bad stuff but they just feel powerless to effect any change which I guess is a microcosm of our national politics.

we are all in the same boat to some extent as far as feeling helpless to effect change on many issues.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Your right Bob....But living here in ND we don't see the kind of things mentioned in those articles about New York,St. Louis, and New Orleans.When I've talked to teachers from large cities....I know I wouldn't work there w/o combat pay.


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## startown (Nov 14, 2005)

I think whoever posted this is right on. I saw the John Stossel report and I agree with him, and I used to be a teacher. In our school district, the heads of the teachers union, want more money, even though the school is broke. They were told that if they received a raise, a certain number of young teachers, and some the best teachers in the school would be cut. They said that is fine, and they were given a raise and now we have class sizes of 28 or more, and the general public is upset about it and has defeated three straight referendum attempts. (The administrators received a raise as well, and that didn't go over very well either, considering we are having fund raisers to pay for sports activities and other expenses)


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Bob


> I never said all teachers I said the unions and their adjenda.


Did you miss that part Rooster?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

There are many things besides hunting that make North Dakota great. One of them is the teachers can read this without being offended, because they are much different than the average American teacher. The teachers in North Dakota are some of the lowest paid, yet our children are some of the best educated in the nation. People from other states may be taken back with that statement, but the truth is they score near the very top in the nation in pre college testing. 
My family has many teachers in it, but not much respect for the teachers unions. The teachers unions have a much different agenda than the average North Dakota teacher, and they don't represent our teachers very well. They have some good things, and as Ken mentioned it is about the only way to get affordable liability insurance. 
If the teachers unions totally fell apart we in North Dakota would perhaps not notice it. Other states would have much better education opportunity, but in North Dakota we get it either way.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

I go along with Ken and Plainsman on this. I have many family members that are teachers and are far from NEA plolitcs supporters. But they all belong like Ken says they can't be left alone without being a member. The most important part is negotiations. When I was in school I hated the teachers, now I have nothing but respect for them. I wouldn't do that job for what they get paid.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Why can we discuss national politics about everthing else and this issue has to be localized in ND. ???????????

Teachers unions affect the federal treatment of school funding and national standards, both of which definitely have affects in ND.

The unions fight any change or improvisation like charter schools, the ability of children to carry funding with them ( vouchers) to escape from schools that are performing badly ect.



> -- There is little K-12 education competition in America because public schools are a government monopoly. Monopolies rarely innovate, and union-dominated monopolies, burdened with contracts filled with a hundred pages of suffocating rules, are worse.


The same people on this board that would be screaming bloody murder if some "big Business" had a monopoly on something they had to purchase somehow want to ignore this issue??????

Pooly educated people lower the productivity of the country and allow the congress to run the country like they do because of the dumbing sown of this nation.

Last time I looked ND was part of this nation.

Why don't you try to ignore your personal involment at the local level and discuss the issue at a national level. Or don't :eyeroll:

Do you know how juvenile it is to not be able to dicuss something without accusing me of hating teachers and public school. :eyeroll:

The people that make that insinuation are unable to recognize there are grave problems and offer any possible solution so they attack the poster. This "attack and give some duragatory label" tactic is rampant in our country at the very root of political correctness and prevents anything from every being criticized and changed for the better.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Bob, we tell you our opinions on the issue and you portray yourself as the victim because people don't agree with your position. You are something else.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

I am having a little trouble with my 12 year olds teacher, he came home 2 days all freaked out cuz the teacher told them that the worlds oil supply is only good for another 10 years. The majority of the teachers in our system are good teachers but there's always got to be one dingbat liberal. She has pulled some of this crap in the past with global warming, deer population dwindling and other wacky crap. I am afraid I am going to have a talk with the admin about her. I had a similar situation in grade school with a teacher that had transfered from Dearborn, Michigan.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

You know that whoever started this thread did not spell the word "education" correctly. :lol: Bubba!! I guess those teacher unions ruined it for Bob!!


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

> he came home 2 days all freaked out cuz the teacher told them that the worlds oil supply is only good for another 10 years.


So your trying to tell us your 12 year old is freaking out on you because of the worlds oil supply???? Oh please.

Let us know how things go with the administrator. :lol:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



> You know that whoever started this thread did not spell the word "education" correctly. Bubba!! I guess those teacher unions ruined it for Bob!!


 "whoever":lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was hoping you wouldn't notice that :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: not only didn't I proofread it after I realized it I could not figure out how to edit it when I saw it.

It did take you a week to notice you must be slipping.

I can spell I just can't control my fingers :wink:


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

> So your trying to tell us your 12 year old is freaking out on you because of the worlds oil supply???? Oh please.


12 year olds worry about alot more than you realize, especially when some nut job liberal teacher starts preaching that kinda crap.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> 12 year olds worry about alot more than you realize, especially when some nut job liberal teacher starts preaching that kinda crap.


Say racer, what do you think about global warming?


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

> Say racer, what do you think about global warming?


This is just a guess but, I'll bet we have different opinions.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Bobm said:


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think if you go back to the first post in your thread and click the "edit" button on that post, you'll have access across the top of the page to edit the title ....

I've done it with a few earlier posts....

Ryan

.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Care to explain why in a post? I don't want to toss this thread off topic, but this discussion doesn't justify its own thread.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

It probably does justify it's own thread, but it'll have to wait for another day, busy tonight.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Thanks Ben, I'm a little slow, but I am trainable.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Time to teach
By John Stossel

Mar 15, 2006

Several hundred people showed up at my door Wednesday to teach me a lesson by offering me a job. They were unionized public-school teachers, and they wanted me to go into a school and teach for a week. "Teach, John, teach!" they chanted.

I wasn't expecting that.

I did expect them to demand an apology for my TV special on education, "Stupid in America," which was critical of union work rules.

I didn't expect one of the speakers to be so blunt as to complain that school choice, whose value I had shown in the broadcast, would "take money away from . . . our union leaders" and a special program they had built to pay college tuition for a special-interest group within their union.  

And I was especially surprised by one history lesson they taught me: "Public schools are what distinguish democracies from every other system in the world," and a country without strong public schools "lends itself to authoritarian thinking." 

Fascinating. I guess the Communists all went to private school. And I guess having a unionized government monopoly running most of our schools, and forcing students to attend those schools regardless of whether they or their parents approve of what's taught there, will make sure that the government can never indoctrinate our children -- and neither can labor unions. :eyeroll:

One speaker took issue with my statement that schools already get plenty of money because she had to get thousands of signatures to get science equipment for her child's school. But the money is going into the school system, more than $10,000 of it per student per year nationally; the problem isn't funding, it's that the public bureaucracy had to see thousands of signatures before it would buy equipment. If we gave the $10,000 to whichever school each student chose to attend, thousands of signatures wouldn't have been necessary -- just a willingness to transfer to a school with science equipment. :beer: :beer:

Another speaker said the union's goal was to ensure that a quality education was "free and accessible to all of New York City's children, regardless of income . . . or geography." Ironically that's what school choice would provide. If the education dollars were attached to the student, then parents could pick a school for their kids regardless of geography or income. It would free parents and kids from the current education system's school-zone bureaucracy and give them real choice. Today, geography is often the only determining factor in a child's assignment to a public school. With school choice, you might be able to send your child to any school within commuting range, not just the one in your school zone.

Other speakers insisted that there are good public schools. I'm sure there are. But if a public school is good, it has no reason to fear school choice: Parents and students will choose it.

One theme the speakers repeated several times was a demand for respect for teachers and students. I'm filled with respect for teachers who do good jobs despite the public schools' restrictive rules. I even said on "Stupid in America" that "some teachers are heroes." I meant it. But I don't respect teachers who are lazy and incompetent. *The union protects bad teachers at the expense of good ones, and of their students. *

And I still don't see how it shows the students any disrespect to say that they should be free to attend schools of their choice in order to obtain a quality education that reflects their priorities. It seems to me that what fails to respect students is forcing them into a school system that has no incentive to concern itself with what they or their parents think, but just gives them whatever the bureaucrats deign to give them.

But I do respect students, and I do think good teachers are essential for kids to get the education they deserve. And I do think I have a lot to learn. So I would like to take the union up on its offer for me to teach in a public school for a week. I'm sure it will be difficult. I'm sure I'll learn a great deal.

But I'd like to give it a try.

Award-winning news correspondent John Stossel is co-anchor of ABC News "20/20" and author of "Give Me a Break."


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Just about anyone could teach for a day but the difficult part is to do it day after day, week after week and year after year. It takes special people with special skills to relate to kids in a way that is both educational and keep it fun because kids are kids and they like to have fun. The first few years are probably both the easiest and the hardest because kids will identify with a young teacher right out of college but being a buddy can lead to classroom control problems. It is also a little more of a challenge when you get to be older because there gets to be a generational gap and you can get to be "out of touch." It takes special people and special skills to relate to 20-30 people day after day, week after week, month after month and in some cases year after year and keep kids in the "mood to learn." I have had a great career in education and both my wife and I will be retiring at the end of next year after 30 years as an educator and the kids and parents will tell you that I have served them well. I have loved my job but have hated my paycheck and can draw my pension and get another job and come out money ahead. The benefits package in our school totally sucks because there are no benefits other than less than 1/2 of a family medical so for me it is not a factor in retirement because I am already paying for the majority of it. I do not belong to the union nor have I for the last 15 years and quit because NEA came out in favor of abortion a position that in my opinion they had no business being involved with in the first place. The men of education have been forced to go to other professions because of the low wages for college educated people who can find better employment and better salaries to support their families in other professions. In my opinion the worst thing about NDEA is that they are way to passive and have no fight left in them. We have way to many woman in education who are just happy to have a job and they will not stand up for themselves. I cannot believe that 95% of the schools in North Dakota do not go to impass each year and teachers continue to sign contracts on the dotted line for a salary that is an embarrassment to our profession. Everyone knows there is wage discrimination against women and with me in a profession of women I have had enough and have decided to move on to something else so I can earn a decent living as a man and the primary bread winner in my family. Now, Governor Hoeven has decided that he will be the negotiator for all teachers and that too will be fatal for teachers because the state has historically had terribly low wages for its state employees and now what will happen to the teachers? We will be no better that the state employees and that is not a pretty sight. After a career of salary increases at or below the cost of inflation I can no longer afford to be an educator. After I leave the profession I hope the salaries continue to get worse for those that remain and will not go to bat for themselves and stand up for just compensation for their talents. This is an embarassment for our state. But you know it is funny that if you talk to some people on the street they think we are overpaid! My wife and I have had enough and still love our kids but hate our paychecks and will be much better off finanically by retiring to another profession. Oh, and you cannot believe all the bureaucracy being dumped on our profession and that will do wonders for kids and their education as it does for every other government program(just ask the people of Katrina). We spend so much money on the administration of the classroom and not on the classroom itself. Washington has spent billions and I repeat billions of dollars on "No child left behind" but you know what? No one has given my classroom a single dime and said. "go buy something for your classroom you think might help the kids with their education." Nope, it has all been spent by the bureaucrat's and their bureacracy. There Bob, this gives you a little insight into the state of our state and my views on our "teachers union" and what it has done for North Dakota teachers and also what I see is happening to education. That is why I have already booked my retirement trip with my family to the Caribbean for next summer. I have enjoyed working with the kids and the parents but have had enough and look forward to moving on to the next chapter of my life.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Rooster, your right you didn't get paid enough. My brother was a teacher for 41 years, and still retirement isn't that great.
Here is to wishing you the best and a better paying job to come.
:beer:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Well boys the reality of this is that while it may not be true in outer ND, much of what is posted as problems are real right here in Fargo. They where even more real when I lived in Madison. The fact that in one of my daughters school there are incompetent and plain poor teachers that get a raise and a new contract every year. Even with petitions and documentation the school district simply moved them to new venues.

Money is an issue in Fargo, tax rates are out of control, yet the school district is setting on enough property that will never be used for schools. It should be used to fund the new schools they want to build even with a projected shrinking enrollment.

The problem is two fold, one protected poor teachers, and a non engaged public electing and re-electing incompetent board members.

Having spent the time engaged with the teachers through the years with my kids, it is very evident that some are simply should no longer be in the class room. They stay because in Fargo they are paid at very high levels once they get a few years of seniority. In my opinion 40% of the teachers are providing most of the education. The rest well you should be able to figure it out if you had a decent teacher!!!!!!


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

DJRooster, you say your class hasn't received a dime from the government or more correctly from no one as you put it for no child left behind. Would you care to comment on the information below. It would appear on the surface at the very least the money was made available to the state level. I can't find the date of the information but I can give you the link if you want it.

*The No Child Left Behind Act is Good News for Children and Families of North Dakota:*

* Benefits an estimated 112,751 North Dakota public school children, 550 North Dakota public schools, and 7,713 North Dakota teachers

* Increases federal education funding for North Dakota to more than $163.4 million to help local schools ensure that no child is left behind - nearly $21 million more than last year, and a 38 percent increase over 2000 levels

* Increases Title I funding to more than $30.6 million to boost the quality of education for disadvantaged children of North Dakota - more than $7 million more than last year, and a 41.8 percent increase over 2000 levels

* Provides more than $2.1 million in funding for Reading First to ensure that every public school child in North Dakota learns to read at or above grade level by the third grade

* Requires every classroom in North Dakota to have a highly-qualified teacher and provides more than $13.6 million to train and retain skilled educators

* Provides an estimated $2.3 million to help ensure safe and drug-free schools in North Dakota

* Provides an estimated $1.5 million to fund after-school programs for at-risk children in North Dakota

* Provides more than $3.4 million in funding to help North Dakota school districts assess how well children are learning and schools are teaching

* Increases Pell Grant funding to an estimated $34.6 million - $2.3 million more than last year, and a 24.4 percent increase over 2000 levels - to ensure greater access to a college education for deserving North Dakota students from disadvantaged backgrounds


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Where does it say biology, chemistry or anything about science in your cut and paste? Whoosh, gohon right over the top of your head, like I said it has gone to the bureaucracy of education! Highly qualified? Have been for 30 years. Teach reading across the curriculum? Have been for 30 years. Standards and benchmarks? That is science, we breath of standards and benchmarks! Yup, have been for thirty years. Everyone on the outside keeps telling us that we aren't doing our job so we have to keep proving that we in fact have been doing our job. Our science scores in our district have always been above both the state and national levels. Just keep cutting and pasting about all the good things that those billions are doing for the bureaucracy of education and you will convince the bureacrats that they are doing a great job but those of us who are in the trenches are not so easily convinced. Like I said, go ask the Katrina victims what they think about the bureacrats and the relief efforts They love bureacrats as much as I do. My budget for my science programs was $1000 per year when I came to this district 23 years ago and it is $1000 today. Now what do you think inflation has done to that $1000? And about 10 years ago some brilliant bureacrat decided that I should start paying for my paper towels and for my propane for my lab which is about $60/year out of that budget so what do you think this has done for my kids in my classroom. Gohon, it looks like you are convinced that those millions of dollars are doing great things for our kids but how much of it is going to administration of the programs and how much is actually being spent on the classroom. Like I said of the billions that are spent none if it will go towards buying something for my kids that they can actually get their hands on in the classroom which is what my kids need the most. Nope it will all be spent on the bureacracy of education. But then again some people are convinced that.........and I am happy for their nirvana but I am not so easily convinced by their billions because I know the rest of the story.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

I thought Bush was freezing Pell Grants???

Heard from an airman that Bush is freezing pell grants and that they jacked up the GI bill because the army and marines are low on recruitment numbers.

I am not saying it is true, I am just saying I heard that.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Christ Rooster I simply ask you for your comment on the information I provided. Nothing went over my head and I made no comment pro or con. No wonder so many people are down on teachers if they all jump up wave their arms and complain like you just did. My only thought was that the money is or was, made available but it is most likely the local bureaucrats that are hosing you. Providing your state with the money is what Washington bureaucrats do and there really isn't much more they can do unless you want them to come into your class room and teach for you. Who makes up your budget that you claim is the same after 23 years? It damn sure isn't congress. Take your fight to the people that are really screwing you and stop making up imaginary enemies to cover the butts of those that are really the culprit. BTW, The Katrina fiasco was also 90% local political blunders as is the usual case and besides that, other than to have something to shift the attention to and complain about, it doesn't have a damn thing to do with this discussion.

I commend you for having the courage to stand against an organization for personal beliefs even if it does mean giving up some comfort, but now all you seem to be doing is allowing your hate for government to cloud over your view as to who is really not looking out for you and the kids. Sorry about posting factual information. Next time I'll remember you don't want facts or truth to stand in your way.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

live2hunt said:


> I thought Bush was freezing Pell Grants???
> 
> Heard from an airman that Bush is freezing pell grants and that they jacked up the GI bill because the army and marines are low on recruitment numbers.
> 
> I am not saying it is true, I am just saying I heard that.


Check this out:
http://www.military.com/Resources/Resou ... -1,00.html


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

When Bush took office Pell Grants were $3,300 for 2001-2002 funding.

2003= 22% increase to $4,000

2004= Remained at $4,000

2005= Raised to $4,050

20006= Remains at $4,050


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Thanks for the information gentlemen.


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## startown (Nov 14, 2005)

I used to teach, but resigned to take a sales position. I think he (Stossel) is right on. There are great teachers, but the bottom 10% need to go. If you cannot perform, don't care, or whatever, get them out of there. Read the book "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and see what he has to say about unions. He is right on, "unions are there to protect specialized labor"

Private schools and charter schools do not have unions and many have been very successful. Unions are not necessary in Education, they simply protect the teacher that lacks other skills and would not be able to find a comparable job. A good teacher on the other hand, is usually a good communicator and often has excellent sales ability. So if they did lose their job, they would more than likely find another position and make more money in the long run. 
I see it happen all the time.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

DJ, Gohon made some good points, he was asking for comment not accusing. You made some good points also. I would like to keep this civil I now realize why you get so incensed over the topic.

I'd like to thank you and Ken for the work you do, I know its probably a frustrating situation anything the goverment is involved in, other than the military, is poorly and wastefully managed.

Why can't you take all your experience and go to a private school where the beauracracy would be much less? When I sent my kids to private school it was a great experience for them ( although I had to drive a old chevy truck for 20 years to get them through it) it was worth every penny.

They grew up better spellers than their old man, thankfully :wink:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

To my knowledge there are 8 private high schools in our entire state and they pay less than the public schools and are located in larger metropolitan areas where the cost of living is greater so here again it just ain't worth it. But that is enough about my situation and why I am no longer going to be an educator and that is why my wife and I have both brain washed our children(both boys) to not go into education in North 
Dakota. It is a dead end street for anyone with anything on the ball and not the kind of job for the primary bread winner in the family. I love the kids and the parents but hate my paycheck.


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