# 26 shootings in Baltimore over memorial day



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

For the full story: http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/2 ... baltimore/

I think it's time to ignore the mayor and send in the Nation Guard. Some think we should not militarize the police, but things like this give me mixed feelings about that. We either militarize the police to reduce the risk to their lives, or we send in the real military. Time for the thugs to get blown out of their socks.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

We DO NOT need to militarize the police. What we need to start doing is executing gang bangers, drug king pins, and what ever else gang members do, in five years or less. When they go to prison, they should be doing manual labor for 12 hour days, 6 days a week. The come out harden and more experienced. We need to start fixing the problems. Whether it be executing people, sterilizing gang members, or letting the national guard clean out the streets "Purge" style. Because what ever the government is doing isn't work (shocker I know). The only way to correct the problem is, a new clean slate.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

BLhunter. Good points! unfortunately these days ther is no incentive NOT to go to prison. Still, we have the highest rate of incarceration of any country in the world, and it costs us taxpayers billions every year.
As far a death penalty goes, I think it's been shown that there is little of no disincentive to kill someone when it hangs over the bad guys head. More importantly, the only hang up I have is that it is too easy to make a mistake. Every day you read about some guy who,was in prison for decades, only to be freed by some technology like DNA which they didn't have way back then. And now,the hair analysis by the FBI is kind of bogus. who knows what technology might be available in another 30-40 years. And like it or not it costs millions to execute even one bad guy! 
Most importantly, though we need to focus on consequences for breaking the law, we need to stop and think why there is all this lawbreaking in the first place. Those slums in the cities have a better than 50% unemployment rate, only partly because od choice of the unemployed, not so much the mass laziness we hear from Rush every day! There are too many young unemployed black young men nothing to work for, no jobs available, untrained for any jobs even if they ahead a basic education, nothing to live for, programmed from birth that this existence is " normal" for the human race, etc. many have never been more than a few miles from their sort-of-home. 
Throwing money at this huge problem or becoming punitive IMO won't solve the problem. My battle cry is always EDUCATION and BIRTH CONTROL! I don't think it takes a PhD sociologist or mathematician to figure out that it takes a lot less time, effort and taxpayers money to feed, educate and keep " straight" say 20 angry young blacks rather than back away and find a couple decades later you have 200 angry young blacks. Compound interest in births!!! IMO is we could only get the Conservative contraception blockers to realize this, it might be a start, though if will take generations to make a dent in the problem.
Building more prisons and locking up more people won't solve the problem either. I don't have any magic answers though.......


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Studies have shown that the death penalty do not deter someone from committing a crime, but it has shown that there are 0 repeat offenders.

The only reason why I want the death penalty to be under 5 years is because, how much money does this country waste on keeping inmates alive? How much a bullet cost? We need to start making prison not so nice. Inmate get fed, three times a day, have a warm bed to sleep in and all the weights to lift and other criminals to learn from. In lots of gangs when you go to prison is when you get your stripes. We need to stop that cycle. Make prison so horrible that you either never wait to go there again, or you leave in a body bag.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm going to fall in between your two opinions. I have heard education, education, education for 40 years. We put more money in and education has become worse not better. Liberals in education have dumbed America down because they don't want even the dullest wit to get bad grades. 
Second point is there are no contraceptive blockers. There are abortion blockers, but abortion isn't contraception. Contraception prevents pregnancy it doesn't end an already occurring pregnancy. By definition it is not contraception although the liberals are trying to say it is. 
Third I also am against the death penalty in all but absolute guilt of horrendous crime. As HH pointed out mistakes are made only for people to be set free 30 years later. I do agree with blhunter that prison should not be so cushy. They don't need movies, and game rooms, they need work. Rent them out in work gangs to pay their own way in prison. Work or starve. 
Last I do think unemployment is by choice by many on unemployment. On this subject I ignore Rush and the bleeding hearts and rely on observation. A good friend in a close small town asked one fellow where he worked. He said "work, work, I don't work, I gots me a sugar momma". He spent his unemployment, and his girlfriends wages. He felt work was for fools, and beneath him. To proud to work, but not to proud to take unemployment and money from a girlfriend.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

We need a death penalty Plainsman and one that doesn't take 30 years to happen. With the money the government would save by not housing inmates they could afford to have more judges, state appointed lawyers (not that we really need anymore of them things), more court houses, and more labs to do test work. Less mistakes would happen and less crime would happen because everyone would see that boom five years from start of trail to death.

Gang bangers don't need contraceptive blockers they need to be sterilized. No more of this 10 kids with 10 different women stuff.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/pay ... ar-BBkgito

Jail and prison should never have been free.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I think we are all pretty well on the same pageshere. I'd be for the death penalty if someone figures out a way to always be 100% correct, blah, blah, blah. And less cushy prisons, though from what I hear, the reality is that no normal people would ever want to live there. Home monitoring programs, work release and volunteer labor for the non violent ones, etc.

I knew Bruce Would blame everything on those dratted LIBERALS! I shouldn't have mentioned contraception because the far right ALWAYS tries to change the subject to ABORTION! I have many Republican Friends and many Democrats, and the ones with first hand knowlege of the problem and experience with it NEVER call abortion a means of contraception, but a Plan C or D situation. Do doctors and politicians argue about what cough syrup to put a patient with TB on? Luckily NO! We TREAT THE CAUSE, not the symptom! Unfortunately it isn't that way with unplanned pregnancies, because it has to do with screwing!!! At least 98% of my Conservative friends realize this, but as one once said, it will always be impossible to change the bible belter wing of the party! Yes Bruce, I still have the occasional narrow minded tunnel,visioned buddies who think like you, though most times their Limbaugh inspired minds don't hold up to reasoned number backed arguments. Thank GOD for reps like John Hoeven! And Heidi!

Back to the subject. The fact remains that we have the highest incarceration rate of any other country in the world and it isn't working! So what to do?? I duno....I have a few ideas but IMO we should be trying new things and testing new ideas. And we should look at what other countries have done to try to try to fix it! What works and what doesn't in other countries of the world! And YES, Plainsman, USA could learn things from other areas of the world, despite out " best country" attitude. We shouldn't build a railroad track around our country and then say the rest of the world lives on the others side of the tracks! We are ahead in some things, way behind in others. The first thing to do to solve a problem is to admit we have a problem and that we DoON'TS have the answers.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I am going to take a stab in the dark here, but would everyone assume we also have the highest gang related issues and the most race issues(which leads to gangs which leads to killing) then any other country in the world? Which would make sense why we have some a high incarceration rate. Also you can't really count any of Africa, Middle East, most of Asia, and a lot of Central and South America and most of those areas just kill people that do wrong or people oppose.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Thank GOD for reps like John Hoeven! And Heidi!


Thank who? I'm not against contraception. I don't know one single conservative who is. However, how do we thank God on one hand and murder his children with the other?

I don't get my ideas from Rush Limbaugh. I like listening to him once in a while because he agrees with me on many things.


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## taykem (Nov 28, 2013)

Look up the "Black dolphin" prison in Russia them boys don't mess around. They have a choice between soup and sandwhich everyday and that's it. They wake them up early to work out and beds fold up into the wall, they are not allowed to lay down only to sit on hard wooden stools. When an inmate is moved anywhere in the prison they are cuffed, have a hood put on and have an angry german sheppard hoping they step out of line!!! This is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to lockdown there. That my friends is the ultimate deterent. This place is as bad as it gets.

As far as execution I agree with it, this person as CHOSEN their path and if you make the consequences steep it will change the mindset of others. The Boston bomber or Aurora Colorado killers should take a seat in old sparky and that should be that, why do they deserve another chance? I am aware of what the Bible says and am definitely a hyprocrite in this aspect, but is everything forgivable? If you're a serial rapist, murder, kidnapper etc.. why do you get to stick around and get fed and cared for on my dime?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I am aware of what the Bible says and am definitely a hyprocrite in this aspect,


It speaks against murder, but I don't remember off hand how it handles self defense, war, and punishment. Just off hand I would not say your a hypocrite for your opinion.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Well heck, my only objection to the death penalty is that it is too easy to make a mistake. Seems every week one or two guys gets found completely not guilty because of technology not even dreamed of when they were convicted. Of course, some are guilty and get off because of technicalities or things like the FBI fraud with the hair analysis thing. Shaky science at best, now shown to be downright wrong and often totally fraudulent. 
I don't disagree with executing guys like the Marathon Bomber or the Aurora shooter or people like that who are definitely unequivocally guilty. But there is such a grey zone between these guys and and occasional innocent person we'd have to kill. Also, when you study it a bit, you get convinced that the majority of killers in prison are there because of murders falling into the crimes of passion category. They are still guilty but the odds of them re offending in most cases are very low, providing they get their addictions under control, anger management and close follow up. Yes, I realize this would be a perfect world, and we don't have enough psychiatrists, psychologists or counselors to even treat a percentage of our returning vets who need this, much less some guys who lost it and killed someone. But yes I hear what you are saying. The proven to be untreatable, like sociopaths, pedophiles and people like that can stay in jail, preferable cheaper offshore. The Russian system is interesting but would never fly here. Bruce will blame it on those dratted Liberals, but the vast majority of conservatives and middle group wouldn't stand for it,.
We still need to spend a few bucks and try to figure out what works in other countries who have much lower incarceration rates than we do, and use community service, home ankle monitoring, etc. I read in the paper today that little old ND has about 100 persons on parole for EVERY parole officer, and they freely admit that there is no way they can do a halfway decent job with case loads like that! Its overwhelming! Every day I drive by the brand new multimillion dollar prison that was just opened a year ago. Purported to relieve the overcrowding, i read where it is now FULL and they are sending some to private prisons down south somewhere. WTF?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> i read where it is now FULL and they are sending some to private prisons down south somewhere


Mexico would be good. :rollin:


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## taykem (Nov 28, 2013)

HH I get that there are instances where there are some shadows of doubt but when cases are cut and dry what's the hold up? I mean the guy who had women chained up in his basement that he was using as sex slaves why not have the trial the same day and get it over with? The legal system which moves at the speed as a snail in January took long enough for him to take his own life, that sure as hell wouldn't give me closure if I was a victim. If people had a true fear I mean completely terrified of prison this country would be a far better place. I noticed you said murders in the heat of the moment, does that make it justified? I understand everyone loses thier cool but common we all know the reprecussions of our actions. If you end someones life there should be a steep price to pay. I think Sherrif Joe had it right (excluding his peronal life snafu) no one wants to be in tent city for the second time. If we are sending prisoners down south why not send em to Gitmo I hear they have alot of open cells now days.

(off topic) God bless Hoeven and Hiedtkamp? You are cool with the patriot act then, I don't think I need the gov. snooping documenting my life for the chance I turned pro isis. What are they even doing to those they caught joining isis they aren't even terminating their visas. I am for security but not willing to sacrifice all my freedom for it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> off topic) God bless Hoeven and Hiedtkamp? You are cool with the patriot act then, I don't think I need the gov. snooping documenting my life for the chance I turned pro isis.


Under Obama they are checking out the Christians and conservatives. They don't much care about ISIS.



> HH I get that there are instances where there are some shadows of doubt but when cases are cut and dry what's the hold up? I mean the guy who had women chained up in his basement that he was using as sex slaves why not have the trial the same day and get it over with?


I would be more in favor of handing the woman my handgun and plugging my ears. 


> I noticed you said murders in the heat of the moment, does that make it justified?


Actually if they blew their cool once they are likely to do it again. Hot heads are hot heads.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

better yet, they just need some guys like the show Dexter.

Or put all the gang bangers in a room with guns and a table full of crack in the middle and let them shoot their way out.

xdeano


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I understand how and why everyone here feels the way they do, BUT, I'm not a lawyer and we are supposed to be a nation of laws and proper procedures, blah, blah, blah. Even the most conservative attorneys and most of the conservative voters wouldn't stand by and go for a lot of the suffer toons here! Not saying I'm not empathetic, just saying we need to stop passing along chest besting platitudes and start to get real with our problems, like a lot of other civilized countries have. Wishing we could do something won't make it come true! All a lot of our bluster does is simply deflect attention away from the real problems and delays out of the usual box thinking or learning what does and DOESN't work in other countries!


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

The way the system is supposed to work is that when you violate someone elses rights you sacrifice some of yours, at least for a period of time. Lawyers and human rights activists have turned prisons into little more than "camps" or sometimes even "schools" which do little more than restrict your movement, which to many criminals who probably never venture from a 2 block area when they are free, isn't really even confinement.. For many, prison is the "easy life" they have been looking for. No job, no responsibility, 3 meals a day, health care and almost anything they want via the black market............


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