# How do y'all feel about the M77 MKII?



## Robert A. Langager

Well,
I am still shopping for my first deer rifle and came across a used Ruger 77 in .270 Win. It is the stainless/laminated version. Keep in mind that I am a leftist..........uh, I mean lefty, so my choices for cheap but good are very limited. The seller (gun shop) is asking $450 and I am trying to work out a package deal with a scope.

I have been doing some reading and they seem good, barring the occasional lemon. The triggers are the main complaint as with most factory rifles.

To those who have them and Plainsman too: How accurate are they? I know one doesn't need sub 1 MOA to hunt, but I see myself spending time on the bench for fun.

Any quirks? Problems? Etc?

I know I was/am looking for a Savage. But this sure is a fine looking weapon for the same price.

Any help/comments (even about leftists) are greatly welcomed! 

Thanks!

RC


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## Plainsman

Robert

I have only had a couple model 77's. Both were good rifles, and the older ones you could adjust the trigger. The 270 I have now is a Winchester model 70.

I'm not sure what to tell you Robert, the model 77 is a rugged reasonably accurate rifle, and would make a fine hunting rifle. Then you mentioned shooting from the bench. What are your standards? If you want in the one inch group category I'm sure you can get there with the model 77. If you want under ½ inch then you might have to go with a heavy barrel Savage.

On the other hand that 77 is a good buy. If you get it and it doesn't perform as you like not all is lost. For a little over $100 a gunsmith could lap the locking lugs, recrown, and adjust forearm pressure if necessary. The 77 is a fine rifle and with a little smithing it also could shoot ½ inch groups. You could add a Timney trigger for about $80.

Oh, Robert, about that leftist stuff, if the rest wanted to discuss things like you do I wouldn't worry about the future so much. I don't see you as partisan biased. Believe it or not I normally am not as partisan as I come off on this site, until I come up against what I consider radical. That moves me further right. Ya, stubborn.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Oh, Robert, about that leftist stuff, if the rest wanted to discuss things like you do I wouldn't worry about the future so much. I don't see you as partisan biased. Believe it or not I normally am not as partisan as I come off on this site, until I come up against what I consider radical. That moves me further right. Ya, stubborn.


I can only hope that you said that in jest.


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## Robert A. Langager

Thanks Plainsman. I think 1 inch would be fine by me. To be honest, I don't even know if I could shoot a 1 inch group. I just do not have that much experience, or talent for all I know. I have read some horror stories about 3-4 inch groups from Rugers. But you know what they say about what you hear................

By the way, did someone hear a mosquito or fly buzzing around a bit ago? ..............It never ends :eyeroll:

Any input on the Weaver Grand Slam?

There is one on Ebay I am watching.

If everything goes to plan, I can score this Ruger for about $400 and get the Weaver for $200. $600 for the whole deal would make me happy and keep me married.

But, there is that gun show tomorrow in at the fairgrounds in Raleigh. Who knows what I will find there??? I think I will wear my Kerry for Pres t-shirt. 

Actually I don't have one.

RC


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## SDHandgunner

RC, I happen to be a HUGE fan of the Ruger M77's (Tang Safety version and the newer MKII versions). Yes they may indeed take a little tweaking to wring the utmost accuracy out of them, but for me that is half the fun of a new (or should I say new to me) rifle.

Generally I have found that the Rugers shoot the best with the barrels totally free floated in the forend. This is quite simple to do yourself with a little elbow grease and time. The one thing to remember is to reseal the wood really good.

As per the triggers, I am super fussy and no gun leaves the factory with a trigger that I consider adequate for my tastes. However there are instructions on the net including some measurements on how to make the Ruger MM77 MKII trigger very, very good. Again I enjoy doing this type of thing, and like I stated no gun leaves the factory with a trigger that would satisfy me.

The only other thing I do is make sure I break the barrel in properly. On a pre owned Rifle this means totally cleaning the bore and starting over. With a totally clean bore I shoot ONE shot, then push 3 patches soaked in Shooters Choice through the bore followed by 3 dry patches, then shoot ONE shot and repeat. I do this for 10 shots. After the initial 10 shots I then shoot 3 shots between the wet and dry patches until I get 50 rounds through the bore. At this point I give it a thorough cleaning once again and go shooting.

Most of the Ruger M77's I have worked with will easily shoot sub MOA groups at 100 yards, with the better ones in certain calibers going closer to 1/2 MOA.

I would think that that asking price for a slightly used Stainless-Laminated Ruger would be a fairly good buy. I know they are higher priced than the Stainless-Synthetic version, and I just purchased a NEW Stainless-Synthetic Ruger KM77RFP MKII in .223 Remington for $460.00 plus tax.

A lot of people complain about the Rugers but to be honest about it, I have been shooting Ruger M77's since 1979 or 1980, and have had several over the years in .223, .22-250, .243, .270, .280 & .30-06, and have worked on / with a buddies in some of these same calibers plus .300 WinMag and .338 Win Mag. Yes I had some that it took a little searching to find that just right load for, but the bottom line is once that right load was found they were indeed good shooters.

Good luck

Larry


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## Plainsman

Robert

A few years ago I subscribed to gun magazine. These guys really laid it on the line. If something wasn't good they said so. Not many magazines will do that. Well, that was just setting the scene, because they rated Leupole, Nikon, Tasco World Class, Weaver 6X24, and Burris. They rated the Tasco World Class best buy, but keep in mind if you get it really cheap it doesn't have to be that good to be best buy. They then rated the Weaver as the most reliable in repeatable adjustments. All were accurate.

Most scope manufacturers have people who love them and people who hate them. Even Leupold which many people admire, also have those who will never touch another one. I have shot a few Weaver and liked them, and perhaps more importantly I have heard very few people that have not been satisfied with Weaver. Then when talking about the Grand Slam you are talking about the Cadillac of Weavers. They don't have the adjustments for long range like I want, but they are very clear and accurate. If you are a person who sights their rifle in for 200 yards then holds over for 300 you can't go wrong with the Grand Slam. I think once you get into that price range most scopes are quality scopes.


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## Robert A. Langager

SDhandgunner,
Thanks for the input. I am definitely a tinkerer as well and have seen the article on how to modify the Ruger trigger. I would probably do some floating too. I just hope (if I get it) that it will be a relatively good shooter without too much tinkering or $$$. Otherwise I would/should go for the Accu-triggered Savage.

I don't know, call me shallow, but it sure is a very nice looking gun, and that is somewhat important to me too.

Here it is:










Plainsman,
Thanks for the heads up on the Weaver. You pretty much confirmed what I thought I knew. If I can score this scope for under $200 I will be thrilled.

RC


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## Robert A. Langager

Ok here is a dilema:

Right now I have 2 choices, and they both represent the 2 paths that I would want to take with my rifle purchase.

1. The Ruger M77 mentioned here in this thread for $450.

2. There is a Savage Tactical 10FLP (law enforcement) at a local gun shop on consignment. It is a heavy barrelled .308 in black matte and synthetic. The is NOT an Accu-trigger gun and I do not think there was any trigger work done. The seller is asking $450 and the best I have gotten so far (over a month ago) was $425.

Both rifles are near new.

I guess I would either like a good light and practical field gun like the Ruger (or something else in that price range), or a less practical more accurate tack driver to do some longer shooting with, yet must be my primary deer rifle.

Who knows whether I would find the time to spend on the range and at the reloader anyways. But, for some reason, I feel the need to "reach out and touch something" at really long ranges.

I am sure both would work, but there is some appeal to me for a "sniper" rifle and to get good with it.

Does that make sense? Or am I just psycho?

RC

Who knows what I will find at the gun show today????


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## huntin1

The Ruger is a reliable rifle, I had one once in 30-06, got rid of it only because I could get no more than 1" groups with it. The one you are looking at is pretty and will make a very good hunting rifle.

But, I would go for the Savage. A gunsmith can adjust the pre-accutrigger. My department issued rifle is a 10FP, I like it so well I bought my own, mine has the accutrigger. And if you decide you want a different caliber, you can change the barrel and bolt head yourself.

Top it with good glass, the Grand Slam is a good scope for hunting, and you are set. But, as Plainsman already said, it doesn't have a very good range of adjustment, which is needed if you are going to shoot at long range. It may be OK to around 600 yards, not sure, never had one.

It all boils down to what you want. The Ruger will be a good solid hunting rifle and easier to carry than the Savage.
The Savage will likely be quite a bit more accurate than the Ruger, but heavier to carry.

Good luck!

huntin1


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## zogman

I have to agree with Plainsman
I have owned two Rugers, they were the early models one in 22-250 and one in 25-06. I had the triggers at 3# and no creep. That made it easier for me to get better groups. They were good rifles.
Whatever rifle you get and when you start shooting alot its human nature to want tight groups Especelly if you go to the range with a buddy, its friendly competion or a least thats the way it is for me.
I have always leaned towards the Remington 700, but that is a personel thing. I also perfer Redheads.
Plainsman,
The 308 we talked about is now having some custom work done to it. There is a person here in GF that will square the barrel and receiver also the bolt face. I spent about and hour with him the other night. I looked at his work in progress, finished products and after visiting with him know he knows what he is doing. He also will install a Sako type extractor on the 700 to give it the positive feed like the Model 70. I was worse than a kid in a candy store. Now I think I need/want that on my 700's :lol: He also builds custom rifles on a Montana action and has a friend that does the stocks.
Robert,
What ever you buy make sure it feels good and is appealing to you.
You can always customize it or tune it. Then your rifle is truly personalized for you. Serf ebay for rifle scopes. You will be surprized at some good buys. I always thought a shotgun is a tool. But a rifle is a part of you. Call me a ******* gun nut, I don't care. You will know what I mean when you reach out and touch your first gopher or crow at 200 yards, coyete, fox or jackrabbit at 400 yards, a prized whitetail at 450 yards plus, or your first 3/4 inch group. Enjoy :sniper:


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## Plainsman

Robert

If you look around you should be able to find the Savage new for about $460. The weight will not bother that much if you use a Safari sling. This sling carries the rifle in near shooting position in front of you. When you lift the rifle it comes up in perfect shooting position. The weight is dispersed across your shoulders while carrying.


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## The Norseman

Hey I agree with with the above replies.
The main thing is make sure you are going to be happy with what you buy, do not make a quick purchase.
Please read the topic .308 in is forum.
I also lean toward the Remingtons. I have always had very good results right out of the box. The 2 rifles I talk about have never had any gunsmithing done to them, but remember they were brand new when bought.
Follow the break in instructions given to you above, very important.
Also torque the action screws when reassembling. I am not familar with the Ruger sequence, only that the receiver is drawn back into the stock, not straight down like Remington. I would think the torquing sequence would be the same.
Good luck.


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## The Norseman

Just remembered my other rifle (don't shoot it much) a Rem 700 ADL in 
.270 w/Leupold scope on it. It to shoots well within 1/2 inch with nothing done to it. That's with a shooting bench and bagged in under forearm.
The .223 was shooting sitting behind a bipod and I've done it off a fence pole also, and the .222 was kneeling behind the car, off the back bumper.
Really accurate rifles.


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## Robert A. Langager

Well,
I went to the gun show and found a whopping 4 lefty bolts and about 2000 righties :******:

1 new Remington 700 VSF .308, very nice, mucho $$

1 used M77 MKII .270 blued $375. Liked it, but don't want a shiny gun. First time handling M77, felt great!

1 older gorgeous Sako .280. $900. Want to stay married.

1 new Savage 11 .300 WSM, wood, non-accutrigger. $350. Close, but wrong caliber and can get new accu-trigger for another $40.

Went back to the shop with the tactical Savage on consignment. Got seller to $400. Then played with Accu-trigger gun. WOW! Screw the consigment gun.

Plainsman is right. I found a NEW 12FLV .308 26" heavy barrel on gun-broker for $432. 90% sure that will be the one. Unless I can get a hella-deal on the stainless Ruger. He really isn't that much below new.

Anyone interested in a NEF Handi Rifle 22-250 with a 4x12x40 Swift scope?

RC


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## Robert A. Langager

I think it is a done deal:

Savage 12FLV .308 26" barrel, heavy barrel, accu-trigger, synthetic left hand.............. $445 shipped plus my FFL fees.................I am psyched!!!!!!!!!

Please help me pick bases, rings, and a scope.

RC

Thanks for the help!!!


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## huntin1

Robert,

How much can you spend on bases, rings and scope, and do you want/need target turrets or mildots? Also, are you ever going to want to shoot to 1000 yards? Good choice by the way, I am sure that you will be very happy with that Savage, just check out that accutrigger before you go to the range, mine was set on it's lowest setting, measured 1 pound on the trigger scale. It is a sweet trigger.

:beer:

huntin1


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## Robert A. Langager

huntin1,
I think I would like to try some long range work. But hunting will be its primary purpose, so I don't want to sacrifice huntability in the name of 1000 yard shooting yet.

Bear with me here, target turrets are the exposed adjusters (windage/elevation) on the better scopes right? What is a mildot?

I imagine something along the lines 4x16 (maybe 6x20??) would be in order?

I am having a hard time figuring out bases. Are they ambidexterous? I think the 2 piece are and the one piece are not. Do you have to go with the same maker of rings as you have bases? (I am such a rifle dork, I don't know jack )

Is the el cheapo synthetic stock good enough?

That should be a good start.

RC


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## huntin1

First, the el-cheapo stock will work OK, but if you do a lot of shooting off a bipod like I do, you may want to pick up a better one sometime. The factory stock tends to flex on the bipod and can cause some accuracy problems. Don't get excited here, I know lot who are shooting the factory stock and have not had a problem. If you want to switch, I'd recommend a Bell & Carlson Duramaxx. You can get these at Cabela's for around $90.

Mounts, if you want a really tough system and don't care how pretty they are I would suggest a tactical rail (weaver/picatinny system) both Plainsman and I are using a Ken Farrell base with Tactical Precision System TSR-W rings. You can get them both at Brownells. 
Here's what they look like on my 10FP:








These will work on either right or left hand rifles.

Another way to go a bit cheaper would be the Farrell base with Burris Signature Zee rings. Check them out here: http://www.savageshooters.com/sharpshoo ... ounts.html

If this system is not to your liking then I would suggest either the Leupold or Burris dual dovetail setup.

Mildots are small dots on the reticle in the scope that can be used for ranging or hold overs, military and LE snipers use them.

Target turrets are indeed the raised windage and elevation knobs, sometimes exposed, some times covered as on mine above. If you plan on shooting long range, you need them.

Scopes, I am a fan of Sightron, the one above is the SII 4x16x42AO Mildot, Midway has them for $422, sometimes on sale for $379, they have the same scope without the mildots for $357. 
http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe/browse

Watch ebay, you can sometimes find good deals on scopes, but stay with Leupold and Sightron and any others that have a lifetime unrestricted warranty so you can get it fixed if it's a lemon. I know this seems expensive, but it becomes more expensive if you buy a cheap scope now that you will not be happy with and then end up having to spend the $400 anyway on top of whatever you spent on the cheap scope. Been there done that, more than once. (takes awhile for me to catch on :-? )

Enough for now, let me know if I can help in any other way.

:beer:

huntin1


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## Robert A. Langager

Actually I think that rail is sharp looking. And if Plainsman uses it then it must be awseome! :beer:

The Sightron is nice. I found one on Gunbroker for $325. I think for the sake of my marriage I may have to keep it simpler on the scope. There is still that Weaver Grand Slam I am watching................

The Bushnell Elites also have lifetime warranty and I have read very good things about those too.

I think I will have to sell off some more stuff!

RC


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## huntin1

Either the grand slam or the bushnell elites would work well for you. I'm just partial to Sightron. I would just stay away from the low end tasco's simmons, and bushnell. 
The Farrell base is tough and even if you go with the Burris Sig. Zee's instead of the tactical rings you will have a super strong scope mount. I'll keep my eyes open for a scope deal.

huntin1


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## crazsqrl15

Hey robert , I am also a lefty. I own the same rifle in a .270. I love the gun. However the trigger gets some getting used to. I took it to a gunsmith and had the trigger polished down to 3.5 lb pull. factory out of the box was very heavy. As far as accuracy... i could group 3 rounds in the size of a nickle using 130 gr. federal nosler balistic tips. at 100 yds. The gun was scoped with a leupold vx2 3x9 40 mm. it took me many a day just sittin in the chair working the bolt to loosen it up a little. its a great gun for the money.


Robert A. Langager said:


> Well,
> I am still shopping for my first deer rifle and came across a used Ruger 77 in .270 Win. It is the stainless/laminated version. Keep in mind that I am a leftist..........uh, I mean lefty, so my choices for cheap but good are very limited. The seller (gun shop) is asking $450 and I am trying to work out a package deal with a scope.
> 
> I have been doing some reading and they seem good, barring the occasional lemon. The triggers are the main complaint as with most factory rifles.
> 
> To those who have them and Plainsman too: How accurate are they? I know one doesn't need sub 1 MOA to hunt, but I see myself spending time on the bench for fun.
> 
> Any quirks? Problems? Etc?
> 
> I know I was/am looking for a Savage. But this sure is a fine looking weapon for the same price.
> 
> Any help/comments (even about leftists) are greatly welcomed!
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> RC


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## StretchNM

Robert,
Congratulations on your new Savage! It's going to be a shooter...no doubt.

I second the Burris Signature Zee rings. The plastic inserts are wonderful! I ordered the graduated ring set in case I needed to raise or lower one end for a 22-250, but found I didn;t need them. $13....so I'll keep them around just in case.

As far as power, I recommend the 4-16 as opposed to a 20X scope. When you get that high in magnification, lots of things begin to happen. Dialing in a .270 or 30-06 to that magnification (outside of a high-dollar, high-quality scope) is different. In fact, I think a 3-9x40 is just about right. But......that's just me.....

My last setup I used Warne steel bases. Pretty nice, though if I had to do it over again I think I'd go with one-pieces base instead of two. Stay away from aluminum bases for that rifle, I would say.

Good luck!


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## Robert A. Langager

Thanks for the replies. This thread s almost 5 years old. FWIW, I went with a Savage heavy barrel .308, Sightron 4-16x42 Mil-dot on Burris Signature rings on top of a Ken Farrell base.


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## StretchNM

5 years old! I never even noticed - that's what I get for not paying attention. I hate it when that happens......


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## brittanypoint

If i read right you bought the savage. They are good guns. However everyone on here keeps saying that they cant get better than a 1" group out of the Ruger Mark II. I have a Stainless M77 MK II in .300 win mag. I can shoot half inch groups at 200yds on a bench. The gun will pull a 1" group fine. I have a leupold VX2 on the gun and have it dialed in for dead center at 300 yds. I live and hunt in Wyoming so long shots on anything aren't uncommon. I filled all three of my tags this fall in 3 shots, Elk at 25yds, Antelope at 406 yds, deer at 550 yds. I shoot Hornady Custom 180 grain bullets. I have tried the handloading stuff but the hornadys still shoot better. My point with all this is that the gun is only as accurate as you make it to be combined with your skill as well. I shoot alot so that helps but I own one rifle and use it for prarie dogs to coyotes all the way up to moose. Good luck with the new gun and I hope that your time with it in the feild will be fun.


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## Bullit44

*I own one. I call it my "Geezer Gun". It is an awesome piece of equipment. The fit finish and bluing is perfect and the walnut stock is beyond beautiful.

Mine is a 7mm-08 and properly sighted in with a medium grade scope 3-9 x 40 lighted reticle it is as accurate as anything I've ever seen. 160 yards 3 shots clover leafed removing the X in the X ring . Cover with a nickel!!

Mine got damaged from the results of a fire. Suppression foam is not gun friendly. I had it redone at Gander Mountain and it did not lose a bit of accuracy or beauty. It's amazing for such a lightweight rifle even an old cripple like me can carry it through the woods. If any doubts about the 7mm-08, I've dropped mr whitetail at 180 yards in its tracks.

I could not recommend it more. No trigger problems for me what so ever. :thumb:

Good luck.

PS. Right now in 2013 7mm-08 is actually on the shelfs where as not much of anything else is.

Hope this helps someone.

Bullit44*


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