# Question for you PRB Shooters?



## Sabotloader (Mar 3, 2009)

It was an excellent day here... Terry is in Kennewick babysitting the grandkids - I was left home alone  Terry had left me some guidelines to get done while she was gone (I prefer the word guidlines ot the term 'honeu-do-list') but it was was just to darn nice to stay inside or even do the chores outside that she wanted done. So what-da-think I did...

I drove to Little Boulder Rock Pit hoping I could punch may way in through the snow on the road... success.

It was really even a better day than this pic shows - the rock pit is just over the hill from here.










I spent most of the day shooting PRB's in the Pit. I took both the 54 and the 50 - I even took the 870 in case I got time to pattern the turkey gun.

I went though a lot of RB's but could never really get the performance from the 50 I feel I need... The old 54 was rock solid.

OK - you guys that know what you are doing... Here is a picture of patches I collected....










The top row is .015 Ox-Yoke pre-lubed patches... they held up real well.
The second row is .018 TC pre-lubed Pillow patches - I did not find one of them that looked like it held up at all.
Third row - bore buttons collected from down range - they all look good....

Why are the thinner .015 patches holding up better than the thicker .018 - they both load down the barrel with about equal force. It seemed to me I was all over the place with the .018's.

My goal today was to shoot off-hand at everthing (trying to get ready for the up-coming Rondy events...) I set clay pigeons out on the ground in the snow @ 25 yards and @ 50 yards. Then loaded up and tried to pick them off shooting off-hand. The 25 yard birds were easy with both the 50 and the 54. The 54 handled the 50 yard birds with relative ease also. Wish I could say that got them all with one shot each - didn't happen. The 54 has a tang mounted peep and globe site on the front. The 50 has a 'V' Peep and blade on the front. I really had trouble getting the 50 yard birds with it. I have decided I do not always get the blade centered in the 'V' peep - I am always a little up or a little down + trying to see the target. Decision - I am putting on a Tang peep site tonight or tomorrow. Then I am going to try to get a Glode for it.

Here are the targets... 50 yard Birds...










I became so frustrated with the 50 on the 50 birds - decided to set a target out at 50 and try it - see if it would tel me more.... It did - I suck at shooting open sights off-hand @ 50...










Even with all of my failures - IT WAS A GREAT DAY IN THE PIT and when I got home this afternoon Christmas came early or late - tell you more about that later.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

The patches are lubed with different brands of lube? Id try .018 patches with the same lube as the .015's.

Also, the thicker patches may be getting cut on the rifling on the way down, and back up the barrel due to the tighter fit. These cuts get bigger when the force of the shot goes off.

What kind of powder and how much?

Id try a couple different lube types on the thicker patches.


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## Sabotloader (Mar 3, 2009)

*barebackjack*



> Also, the thicker patches may be getting cut on the rifling on the way down, and back up the barrel due to the tighter fit. These cuts get bigger when the force of the shot goes off.


That certainly could be a factor...


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

If you suspect that its the rifling cutting the patches, heres a trick ive used to diagnose this problem.

Take some dry patches, and using a permanent marker, make a mark on one side of the patch from the center to the edge. Let it dry good, and lube em up. (I use red as its easy to distinguish from fouling marks on the patch).

When you load them, load the mark to a certain point, like load the mark to the top, mark to the bottom, etc etc etc.

Shoot em, and take a look. This could help you determine what land/groove is creating your problem, if the cut comes from the same side everytime. If its random, I dont think that cutting is the problem as the new barrels out there today are usually made really well with no burrs and such down there.

How many rounds have the rifles had through them? I had one rifle that was cutting patches very bad with a tight patch/ball combo. But after 100 rounds or so the barrel was lapped out enough that the problem went away.


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## Sabotloader (Mar 3, 2009)

*barebackjack*



> How many rounds have the rifles had through them? I had one rifle that was cutting patches very bad with a tight patch/ball combo. But after 100 rounds or so the barrel was lapped out enough that the problem went away.


Both of these barrela are very old but in excellent condition - they have had hundres of full bore Bull Shops shot through them as well as sabots.

When you clean them or patch they feel very smooth and when you drop a light in them they are like it is like a mirror in there.

They both have been shot with real BP for along time, with conicals. Now the only powder I shoot is T7 or BH. I do not shoot any of the Pyro's - that is awful stuff - if you are going to shoot that corrosive stuff might as well shoot real BP.


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## rogerw (Jan 7, 2008)

Could the thicker patching material just be old and maybe thread-weakened? I admit this might not be probable, but.......

I don't buy gun-store patching material, but rather get it at the ladies fabric stores.....

#40 drill cloth or the heavier pillow ticking with the familiar weave.....much cheaper to buy by the yard, wash to remove the sizing chemical, and then use. And by doing so, I think I am getting material that is not 30yrs old in someone's inventory.

YHS,
rogerw


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The absensce of burn marks makes it look like cutting to me also. Like Roger I use pillow ticking I buy at the fabric store. Back in the 1970's I bought a nice little patch cutter from Dixie Gun works. I cut and lube about 100 at a time. If I am not in a rush it's fun to do it the old way and carry a strip and cut it after you have started your ball.

I had one rifle that I used sabots in and it's eight years old. It cuts patches. I lapped it with Semichrome polish and it's fine now. The other thing I would ask is what is your twist. Most people who shoot sabots or full bore conicals shoot 1--48 or faster twist. I find that faster twist often tear patches to shreads with loads above 50 gr powder. I am guessing that the fast twist is putting more stress on the patch.


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## Osprey (Jul 6, 2004)

My first question is rate of twist also as far as accuracy?

The easiest way to figure out if it's you or the gun is to shoot off a bench rest at a target and compare the two results. The open sights may have you thinking too much and peeking at the shot.

If you are shooting primitive matches at Rondy you may not want globe and peep sights on both guns, I think some of the matches are open sights only.

If it does turn out to be cutting patches, here's what I do on new barrels as I build guns. They'll all have some burs, and even an old barrel may pick up a nick or rust patch. Wrap some 0000 steel wool tightly around a cleaning jag and run it up and down the barrel about 100 times, ready to roll.


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