# Another I told you so



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

http://www.sltrib.com/home/2880612-155/ ... o-same-sex

I remember debating the same sex marriage on a couple of sites. We conservatives thought it would open the door to other groups. Liberals laughed at us. Now poligamists are using the courts ruling to defend their practices. I think liberals knew it.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Still laughing at you, Plainsman! Guess that makes me a dratted Liberal! At least on this topic it does! 
Polygamy does NOT have an inborn physiological determined-long-before-birth basis, multiple allele stuff like blue eyes, left handed ness, redhair and countless other humans have no control of! Yep, you'll say Pedophilia and being a Sociopathis also determined long before birth as well, and you are probably Correct! The huge difference is that pedophilia, Sociopathism, etc CAN and DO harm the public each and every day! Once again, don't confuse pedophilia with homosexuality or your misunderstanding of all this stuff will be showing. 
I realize the weekly newsletter from the M Synod will say I'm wrong, but perhaps their writers should do a bit more research and not simple knee jerk against something they find personally disgusting and therefore in their view " abnormal and immoral." Like I did up to 25 years ago when all sorts of new scientific findings about brain structure, function and neurochemistry using out gee whiz technology began! 30 years ago I wouldn't have posted or uttered anything like this, but time and scientific knowledge marches on, at least since too much vs religious dogma got booted out at the end of the Middle Ages! Last time I checked we were still supposed to be in the " Age of Enlightenment!"
Join the scientific world of the 21st century, Plainsman. Partly kidding you, and tragically just repeating same old, same old, hoping you might open your mind a bit!
BTW, next time GST. Or some other scientific Naysayer criticizes your research on Salamanders, we just returned from Europe and learned of a lot of studies being done on the regenerative capacity of not only being able to regenerate Salamander legs, BUT their ability to regenerate large parts of their brains as well! Maybe some hope for post head injuries, spinal cord injuries, and other neurological conditions, perhaps in part of your research stuff! Salamanders are fascinating creatures! This was at the Jaques Cousteau institute in Monte Carlo! 
Ialways cringe when people ( unfortunately usually self labelled Conservatives" criticize and block pure research, especially where it doesn't fit their view of how things are, or should be! Immunizations, stem cells, gender dysphoria, etc. the rest of us dratted Liberals love to see scientific discoveries that can help our fellow men/women! We don't need another dark ages!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Gst, shaug aka fritz the cat don't know science from dog crap. Their third grade mentality makes them more of a danger than help. To bad they are not fifth grade level so it can be explained to them.

HH old boy your getting acience beyond what it has actualy done. Give me a citation of one peer reviewed successful genetic study linking homosexuality to a genetic cause. Even if so it would change nothing. Also pedophilia may be heyerosexual or homosexual by definition. If the pedophyl molests the same aex not only are they pedophyled, but the are homosexual. They certainly can not be heterosexaul. To argue otherwise is simply grasping for excuses for both homosexuals and pedophyles.
However these things are all beyond my point. The point is once the homosexual marriage opened Pandoras box thing will really go nuts.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Not to mention that polygamists are bat chit crazy to start with......... How else could a man live with more than one woman. :bop:


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

plainsman :beer:


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I agree totally with, abnormal AND immortal AND personally disgusting!

Next week someone will want to marry a goat...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Again my whole thing is that people are getting church vs state confused.

the country would need to re-write or re-word some things.... ie: not a marriage tax credit but a "CIVIL UNION" tax credit. Also with everything else like insurance and what would have to be "CIVIL UNION" discounts not "marriage" discounts.

Then it is up to the individual churches and religious beliefs that if they want to "marry" people. But you can only get a "CIVIL UNION" to what the law allows.

Then people can't say baking a cake goes against their religious beliefs because they are baking a "CIVIL UNION" cake. People cant say giving out a "CIVIL UNION LICENSE" is against their religion. Because they are not getting married..... Get the picture.

Again all it is doing is word play. But those words will change meanings and how you look at things. Once the government required "marriage licenses".... the merged church and state. Which is one of the things they wanted to get away with back when they wrote the constitution....with the freedom of religion. :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think their real goal is to destroy the America we know.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

> Gst, shaug aka fritz the cat don't know science from dog crap.


Hey, what are you doing trying to drag me into this conversation?

I think it is sad that every rock solid institution and norm most be torn apart in this country. People run in fads. Are tatoos really that cool? The gays say it is OK to suck willie but I don't think I want to try it.

They claim they are tolerant of this and tolerant of that but go on to say they "HATE" people who they deem to be intolerant.

Who is truly the intolerant one???????


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Hey, what are you doing trying to drag me into this conversation?


Did you read this:


> BTW, next time GST. Or some other scientific Naysayer criticizes your research on Salamanders, we just returned from Europe and learned of a lot of studies being done on the regenerative capacity of not only being able to regenerate Salamander legs, BUT their ability to regenerate large parts of their brains as well! Maybe some hope for post head injuries, spinal cord injuries, and other neurological conditions, perhaps in part of your research stuff! Salamanders are fascinating creatures! This was at the Jaques Cousteau institute in Monte Carlo!


I brought your name up, because it was you who laughed about such stupid things as salamander research. Who knows perhaps one day they will know how to regenerate liberal brains. Other than that I was sure you would agree with me that same sex marriage is just the leading edge of the knife to destroy marriage.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Touché?

Haha! oke:

Isn't it funny how, no matter how bullheaded and stubborn we are (myself included )-that everyone eventually has to learn something on here? :thumb:


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

All the legal eagles predicted lots of crackpots coming out of the woodworks. I read where one guy is supposedly suing some State or something because they won't let him marry his dog! And I heard about some guy wanting to marry his horse! Whether these nuts are trying to make some kind of social/ legal statement or just wanting a bit of press I wouldn't know! Heck, apparently the Montaaaaaaaannnnnnaaaa courts are chocked with applications from lonely Cowboys wanting to marry their favorite sheep! JUST KIDDING, you Montaaannnaaannnnsss. 
Seriously, I can understand the reluctance to change thinking that we all have been indoctrinated in since birth. It has taken me many many years and a lot of critical thinking o,change my views and I hope they never stop changing as new info comes in! I have lots of pretty well educate Liberal AND Conservative friends, and from what I can gather, the vast majority have slowly changed over the years and have become much more open minded! This is reflected in national polls, though admittedly we still occasionally tell a gay joke or two around the fire in deer camp! (We tell lots of Minnestia and Montana jokes, too.). 
I agree with Chuck that if gay "marriage were to be renamed something else more politically correct, though normally I abhor poiltical correctness, a lot of the furor over the SCUS rulings might have been averted. Pesonally I don't care one way or another, other than to reiterated that leaving the legal and supposed moral issues said that science is pretty well showing that gayness is NOT a choice ( except temporarily among prisoners) but something determined long before birth. Likened to red hair, left handed ness, and a whole host of less obvious differences etc. it's dfinitely NOT a sordid plot to ruin the country or destroy marriage! gimme a break!!!!!! A bit off topic, but there's an interesting link on Fox News website today about the changing role of marriage and attitudes among Mormons and Jews. Nothing new as this stuff has been studies on Christian websites and campuses over and over with similar findings. Nothing to do with gayness, though. Just social and demographic changes, Plainsman! Deal with it! I don't like a lot of these social chainges either! But we can't ignore them!
What I never understand is why if a solid Conservative Guy has unmovable opinions about neurophysiological/neurochemical brain changes and function which supports the modern science about homosexuality and fights it tooth and nail, yet, say the same unchangeable guy has a relative with MS, ALS, Alzheimer's ( our soon to be number one expensive health crisis) and suddenly the same scientists using the exactly the same new gadgetry and techniques makes a breakthrough in any of these diseases, then the most solid Conservative would be the first one up to the plate, probably pushing very one else out of the way, demanding the new treatment, suddenly a believer! Bottom line, we all believe what we want to believe and are reluctant to change our mind inertia except very slowly but very quickly if we can benefit from it.
Plainsman's salamanders are another good example. If the chief "bar scientist" that denigrates you suddenly
has a son, relative, brain injured, stroked, shot in Iraq can someday be fit for some of Plainsmans research, then it's a different story. Never be too quick to accept or discard or negate scientific research and we humans should NEVER POLITICIZE. Any scientific problem or puzzle! EVER!
This " Liberal" is going out to check deer stands.....hot but better wear jeans and boots because of the poison ivy!


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plainsman's research????

I'm going to have to wave the flag on that one. Plains only posts his opinion here, never any research from the fed/gov facility where he worked.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Shaug get a clue. Science is published in peer reviewed literature outlets and never spewed on the internet or even the grey literature that you and gst cite. We have gone over this many times. You want to laugh because I developed a salamander trap rather than spending thousands of man hours to find it was disease and not ag chemicals killing salamanders in North Dakota. So I guess soending money wisely that got farmers off the hook is bad in your book. Everything that doesn't put money directly in your pocket you think is bad.

HH I respect your opinions, but I don't think there has been a successful genetic study linking homosexuality to biological influence. They started saying that many years ago after a researcher made the claim publicly. However that researcher made the statement before he did the research. He failed, but people still cite him. 
All that aside we can look back in history and see how nations declined and even ceased to exist after the declined morally. If we look at all things biological we could find excuses for rape and many other things. Some people who we think are permiscuouse are perhaps just fighting two to three times the hormones as a woman that appears disinterested in sexual things. If we want to use biology as an excuse most men are bilogically programed to chase every woman out there, blind, cripped, or crazy. When these young bucks get to our age HH they will be amazed the brain takes over again. Some guys will say this isn't so. We will then know better than to believe anything else they say.
All that said in reality most things, other than disease etc, are a choice in life. If at a toung age you decided to have a few beers instead of study and now you don't like your job ------well that was your decision. If you liked to smoke and laughed at all the warnings, but now you want to sue the tobacco companies because cancer is rotting your lungs maybe your not as smart as you thought you were.
In ending, Clint Eastwood had a humurous comment in a movie that the highschool drop out anti science crowd needs to consider. "A mans got to know his limitations".


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

HH reading my last post I thought I should clarify I wasn't taking a shot at you or anything close to that. I have talked to you in pm's etc and although we don't see eye to eye I value your input and further I value you.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plains said,



> Shaug get a clue. Science is published in peer reviewed literature outlets and never spewed on the internet or even the grey literature that you and gst cite.


In the last ten years there have been many Initiated Ballots, Senate Bills, House Bills and Constitutional Measures. Many times you and I have been on opposite sides of the issues. I have not lost one and you have yet to win one. I don't beleive your science is better.

I don't like same sex marriage or poligamy either. We don't need to invent another class with special rights. Enough said.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I don't beleive your science is better.


Stick to what you know. Time after time I see people bash the Game and Fish. Many times they are pushed into things by legislators. We hire people who have spent years in college to manage our wildlife, then armchair biologists who didn't finish high school think they know more. No one won some of those initiatives, we all lost.

I agree with you on the same sex marriage. Our government (mostly liberal politicians) keep creating groups in a fashion that insures they will receive their vote. The democrat party has become the party of social perverts.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

> Time after time I see people bash the Game and Fish.


Can you find one time that I have done that?



> Many times they are pushed into things by legislators.


Our elected Representatives listen to their constituency, the voter. You need to stop trying to mislead people into thinking that legislators just create pieces of legislation on their own.



> We hire people who have spent years in college to manage our wildlife, then armchair biologists who didn't finish high school think they know more.


Tell us how you really feel.......wildlife professinals have large I-Q's and everyone else is stupid. How did your idol, Valerius Geist say it????..."the management of wildlife should be placed totally in the hands of highly trained wildlife professionals."

Not going to happen. The NDG&F Department is a State Agency created by the people for the people.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

shaug said:


> > Time after time I see people bash the Game and Fish.
> 
> 
> Can you find one time that I have done that? Don't think you have, but I sure have seen a lot of that on fishingbuddy from fellows now on nodakangler.
> ...


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plains said,



> Sometimes the very dumbest people think they are the smartest. Not smart enough to know they are stupid. It's not that wildlife professionals are smarter, but they are trained. You have to have a tad of grey matter to know that.


Trained???? Trained by whom? Like as in, by a college professor? Tutored? Some training classes? Right now you are plowing a lot of weight into the word, "trained." You're going to need to elaborate.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Right now you are plowing a lot of weight into the word, "trained." You're going to need to elaborate.


Wildlife major for example Shaug. I think I have explained to you perhaps a dozen times now that college don't make people smarter it simply trains them in a field. I have often said someone smarter than Einstein perhaps lived in a mud hut and the world never knew him or her. I would bet with the world population many people smarter than Einstein have passed through this world without the world knowing them because they were never trained and never excelled within the public view. I dislike elitists who think because they went to college they are smarter. I also dislike drop outs who think they have more commons sense than educated people. Both of these types are self centered fools.

Wildlife management
Population dynamics
Disease
Parasitology 
16 hours of Botany 
Ornithology
Entomology
Mammalogy
Ichthyology 
24 hours of electives like herpatology, wildlife law enforcement, any of the other biology classes. 
Physiology
Habitat requirement of species
Animal behavior

I'm perhaps forgetting some. These classes normally start junior year after finishing English, math, history etc. I went through the college of agriculture so I could skip more of the history, sociology etc. So with extra time I filled it with veterinary medicine, agronomy, agricultural economics etc.


> How did your idol, Valerius Geist say it????..."


You have always had a problem with that guy and I know why. Geist believes in the North American Model. That is he believes that animals are the property of the state, or the province. Your problem is you want to have hunters under your thumb and force them to pay to hunt. I suppose your really angry because hunters wouldn't come back to hunt your little pasture for bull elk. They call it sporting for a reason Shaug.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

> Wildlife management
> Population dynamics
> Disease
> Parasitology
> ...


After attending all these classes, what if the student is dumber than a stump to start with? Or what if he is an activist and his professor is one too? Walk into any fed/gov office and the disclaimer is right there. We are an equal opportunity employer, we do not discriminate. BS........women and other minorities are placed first. Multiculturalism. But they can TRAIN them.

A monkey can be TRAINED to pull a lever and receive a peanut.

During the fair chase folly, I personally met several of your TRAINED biologists colleages that you worked with at USGS. I was not impressed. Bad breath, foul personalities, neandrathal looking features from a mud hut, and they just couldn't follow the law. No rhyme or reason or commonsense.

Your people need a lot of TRAINING in etiquette.



> That is he believes that animals are the property of the state, or the province.


You mean like buffalo? ..........May ten thousand buffalo stampede through your yard. :rollin:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> During the fair chase folly, I personally met several of your TRAINED biologists colleages that you worked with at USGS. I was not impressed. Bad breath, foul personalities, neandrathal looking features from a mud hut, and they just couldn't follow the law. No rhyme or reason or commonsense.


Fair Chase, Fair Chase, Fair Chase. I'm glad I'm over it and it's not running my life.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Oh yes it is running your life. You spend hours on these websites. Just five posts ago you said,



> Don't think you have, but I sure have seen a lot of that on fishingbuddy from fellows now on nodakangler.


Nodakoutdoors was the first web-forum. Remember the heyday, 18,000 veiws in a couple days. Then sportsmen left and went to fishingbuddy. Right now FBO is a shell of its former self.

nodakangler will succeed if they keep the agenda's off.

Gotta go bale some second cutting. It's early, 4:48 am. Need a dew to come on but the wind is blowing and it is warm.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Well I think the point to begin with was that you make fun of things you don't understand. As to the time I spend on outdoor sites, it has nothing to do with high fence shaug. Over the years I have learned a few things about rifles, ballistics, archery, and if I can help someone in my old age I will. When it comes to hunting if I can't do it I can talk about it. If I can't talk about it I can think about it. Hunting and shooting are always going through my mind.

As to agendas everyone has two or three. First and foremost for me is the second amendment. Second is to preserve sport hunting. I have many many other less important to me. Ooops actually I have one more important than the second amendment. That my grandchildren are all Christian.

Oh by the way I hope you get good tonnage out of that second cutting. The forecast is for rain this week-end so get her up.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plains said,



> Well I think the point to begin with was that you make fun of things you don't understand.


Really!!!!!! I make fun of things I don't understand??? HMMM

Third Plains post:



> Gst, shaug aka fritz the cat don't know science from dog crap. Their third grade mentality makes them more of a danger than help. To bad they are not fifth grade level so it can be explained to them.


WTF


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