# Mueller Investigation



## KEN W

Trump is getting nervous. Now says he may pardon Manafort who evidently has lied some more and briefed Trump's lawyers about what is going on. No Pardon for these criminals. Mueller needs to go after both Trump's and Manafort's lawyers. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Has his wacky lawyer Giuliani,after being pretty quiet for the last month, spouting off again. I guess they are trying to muddy the waters so when the House decides to IMPEACH "The Donald," the public will be confused. Just throwing buckets of mud at the wall and hoping some will stick.

Investigation will end soon. Probably sometime in January. Trump family.....first up, Junior for lying, will be shown exactly for what they are.Do anything to get what they want and never take the blame for what they do. House will subpoena Junior's phone and see a blocked call to his father telling him about the Trump Tower meeting with the Russians that he lied about. uke:

Trump knew all about the stolen emails From the Democratic headquarters by Wiki-leeks. Another lie.....so that's nothing new. His followers are numb when it comes to so many Trump lies. :shake:


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## Plainsman

I think you may be jumping the gun again Ken.


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## speckline

Ken, what makes you think January is the magic month??
And, could you please state what year?? :laugh:


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## Plainsman

I think Mueller is trying to put the screws to people to make them lie. I don't believe he cares about innocence or guilt only convictions to make him look good. Unfortunately we have seen some prosecutors further their career/reputation etc at someone else expense. We need only look back to the treatment of our last supreme court judge.
Forget the guys name, but on tv he said he refused to lie to appease Mueller.


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## huntin1

Perhaps you missed this in the other thread, or ignored it because it doesn't support your view of our President.

https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... y-clinton/



> Russia Investigation: It's beginning to look as if claims of monstrous collusion between Russian officials and U.S. political operatives were true. But it wasn't Donald Trump who was guilty of Russian collusion. It was Hillary Clinton and U.S. intelligence officials who worked with Russians and others to entrap Trump.
> 
> That's the stunning conclusion of a RealClear Investigations report by Lee Smith, who looked in-depth at the controversial June 2016 Trump Tower meeting between officials of then-candidate Donald Trump's campaign staff and a Russian lawyer known to have ties with high-level officials in Vladimir Putin's government.
> 
> The media have spun a tale of Trump selling his soul to the Russians for campaign dirt to use against Hillary, beginning with the now-infamous Trump Tower meeting.
> 
> But "a growing body of evidence ... indicates that the meeting may have been a setup - part of a broad effort to tarnish the Trump campaign involving Hillary Clinton operatives employed by Kremlin-linked figures and Department of Justice officials," wrote Smith.


It wouldn't surprise me if Mueller was involved in this setup.

Mueller should be charged with malfeasance, he is certainly not doing his job.


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## KEN W

I am just guessing that January 2019 will be when Mueller issues his report.

Huntin 1.... I saw that report. You can say Clinton.....but I say the Trumps colluded with the Russians. Not Clinton. Why would the Russians try to get Clinton elected? They wanted Trump to win. It makes no sense that they would want Clinton. We shall see in the near future what is in the final report.

I still think the House will go after Junior for out and out lying. That is a family trait after all. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith

Well today Cohen plead guilty to "lying". But we don't know what they are all "lying" about. Was it about the campaign finance stuff.... ie: he said before he didn't do it to advance or help advance a canidate running for federal office. But yet today... he said he did do it to help a person running for federal office. So again this is all campaign finance law stuff.... which will be a fine and slap on the wrist for trump if anything (remember Obama got hit with finance stuff). It is nothing to do with RUSSIA! The article I read stated that trump or trumps circle knew of Cohens illegal activities..... THAT ISN"T COLLUSION!! Unless Trump was directly involved in him being a tax cheat he isn't guilty of squat unless the campaign finance stuff.

Then the whole Corsi thing.... yep he is getting the screws put to him because he "forwarded" on an email. They said he lied to the investigation about stuff. So that will be interesting how that turns out. So only time will tell what comes out on that.

Stone is saying he never talked to Assange... So someone is lying... but who???

But yet again nothing points to collusion by Trump. Also and this will be the bombshell... collusion isn't a crime. Unless it points directly to trump stealing things or paying for stolen info.... there is no crime.... as of yet. So after almost 2 years... nothing pointing towards trump...(as of yet)&#8230; when will they wrap up this investigation.

Right now is just a bunch of wind by both parties because some new plea deals and possible charges. So everyone is saying or speculating what is coming next. Both sides of the spectrum are going off...&#8230; Manifort pardon, Guilliani getting looked at by the bar association, charges on Trump or Jr., and of course the "witch hunt"..... all BS. More important things to deal with in our country..... ie: the border situation!!!


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> I am just guessing that January 2019 will be when Mueller issues his report.
> 
> Huntin 1.... I saw that report. You can say Clinton.....but I say the Trumps colluded with the Russians. Not Clinton. Why would the Russians try to get Clinton elected? They wanted Trump to win. It makes no sense that they would want Clinton. We shall see in the near future what is in the final report.
> 
> I still think the House will go after Junior for out and out lying. That is a family trait after all. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


Your right you are guessing. I don't know for certain what is true and what isn't, but we will find out. You can never be wrong when you say you don't know. As far as Hillary she or people with her paid for the fake dossier created by a British spy and a Russian who wrote the crap about golden showers. So yes Hillary's campaign at the least colluded with Russia directly or indirectly.

The Russians would like Hillary because her political views are beyond socialist and approaching communist. Hillary is also weak and all enemies would like to see America with a weak president and weak leaders in congress. Not unlike we would like to see weak leaders in Russia and China. Liberals always accuse conservatives of doing what they are actually doing.

If I hated the United States I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted illegal immigrants swarming the border I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted Muslim terrorists bombing restaurants in the United States like they do in Israel I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted high taxes driving more businesses to foreign shores I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted to be taxed more so politicians could use my money to buy votes from the lazy I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted grandchildren marrying dogs, cows, and chickens I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted future generations aborted I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted Hell on earth I would have voted for Hillary.


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## Chuck Smith

> . We need only look back to the treatment of our last supreme court judge.
> Forget the guys name, but on tv he said he refused to lie to appease Mueller.


Here is a new article about that guy....

Headline "Stormy Daniels: Michael Avenatti Filed Defamation Case Against Trump Against My Wishes"

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP


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## north1

Plainsman said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am just guessing that January 2019 will be when Mueller issues his report.
> 
> Huntin 1.... I saw that report. You can say Clinton.....but I say the Trumps colluded with the Russians. Not Clinton. Why would the Russians try to get Clinton elected? They wanted Trump to win. It makes no sense that they would want Clinton. We shall see in the near future what is in the final report.
> 
> I still think the House will go after Junior for out and out lying. That is a family trait after all. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
> 
> 
> 
> Your right you are guessing. I don't know for certain what is true and what isn't, but we will find out. You can never be wrong when you say you don't know. As far as Hillary she or people with her paid for the fake dossier created by a British spy and a Russian who wrote the crap about golden showers. So yes Hillary's campaign at the least colluded with Russia directly or indirectly.
> 
> The Russians would like Hillary because her political views are beyond socialist and approaching communist. Hillary is also weak and all enemies would like to see America with a weak president and weak leaders in congress. Not unlike we would like to see weak leaders in Russia and China. Liberals always accuse conservatives of doing what they are actually doing.
> 
> If I hated the United States I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted illegal immigrants swarming the border I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted Muslim terrorists bombing restaurants in the United States like they do in Israel I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted high taxes driving more businesses to foreign shores I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted to be taxed more so politicians could use my money to buy votes from the lazy I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted grandchildren marrying dogs, cows, and chickens I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted future generations aborted I would have voted for Hillary. If I wanted Hell on earth I would have voted for Hillary.
Click to expand...

Talk about hitting the proverbial nail on the head!!! Perfect synthesis of the whole situation.


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## Chuck Smith

Update on Cohen....

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

It has to do that he said he didn't know about a real estate project in Moscow by the Trump Organization but then later admitted he did know something about the project. The project was cancelled in 2016.

So again..... NO COLLUSION about interference into the election. This is about a real estate deal. :beer:


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## dakotashooter2

Most of this appears to be campaign finance issue. Id be willing to bet there isn't a single politician at the federal level who HASN"T broken campaign finance law knowingly or unknowingly. Politicians hire lawyers to handle this for them. The lawyers job is not to turn away money but to figure out how to hold on to it. One thing about lawyers...they ALL believe they are right. even if they are wrong so they will do whatever they have to do then cover for as long as they can. I do think Hillary was involved with the Russians and I think they screwed her over which helps explain her shock in her loss to Trump and her bitterness in trying to get back at Trump and them. I suspect because of Trumps previous business dealings with the Russians they chose to side with him. There may be some shadiness on both sides of this whole affair.


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## Plainsman

Cohen's crime exposed. He told Mueller he talked to Russians about a relistate deal in January 2016. Oh oh big crime, the date was June 2016. So Mueller cast this as a lie and will prosecute. I think Mueller should be prosecuted


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## Chuck Smith

It also came out that these dates/talks were in paper work already public knowledge or given free will to the Mueller team awhile back. So nothing really "new".

Also I am waiting to see what happens with that Corsi law suit. Since he declined the "plea deal". Again Mueller is supposeably going after him because they found an email he forwarded to someone. It wasn't an email he typed, responded to, etc. It was sent to him and he forwarded it on. Then he forgot to tell the Special Counsel. He forgot about a forward and didn't tell them about it.... so now he is getting hammered. They said he lied.

Again... this is all I know about that and maybe more details will come out. But you can see how Mueller is running his investigation... now it is pulling at threads and not really anything "block buster"..... It shows to me that this investigation should be getting wrapped up if this is what everything is boiling down to and the new "breaking news"..... it isn't anything. He should come out with all of his findings and end or indict. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/11/ ... r-meeting/

Good article that is hypothesizing what is going on with Mueller....



> Rather than ending the investigation because the suspected crime cannot be established, Mueller is apparently determined to prove "collusion" that is not criminal, however nefarious it may be made to appear. The prosecutor's objective appears to be to show: (a) that ties between Donald Trump and the Russian regime were more elaborate than Trump has let on, and (b) that the Russian regime offered help to the Trump campaign in the form of information that would be politically damaging to Hillary Clinton, and the Trump campaign knowingly and eagerly accepted that offer - i.e., collusion to affect the outcome of the election.
> 
> Now, such a showing of collusion could be politically damaging. It might even be something on which the Democratic-controlled House could try to build an impeachment effort. But it is not a criminal conspiracy because it does not establish an agreement to commit a federal crime.
> 
> Mueller is camouflaging this defect in his investigation by inducing people in the Trump campaign orbit to plead guilty to various false-statements charges. The anti-Trump press then reports that (a) Mueller is investigating Trump-Russia collusion, (b) many Trump-campaign figures have been convicted, and (c) many Russians have been charged. No mention is made of the inconvenient facts that the Trump associates' guilty pleas have nothing to do with Russia's interference in the election and that the charges against Russians have nothing to do with the Trump campaign.
> 
> If I am right about where Mueller is going, then all roads lead to the Trump Tower meeting.


and...



> It should be noted that Cohen has not been charged with any offense involving Russia's interference in the 2016 election. Moreover, no deal was ever closed for a Trump project in Moscow.
> 
> Three months ago, Cohen pled guilty to several other charges brought by the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. These included campaign-finance violations involving pay-offs to women who claim to have had extramarital liaisons with Donald Trump a decade before he was elected president. Cohen is scheduled to be sentenced on those charges on December 12.
> 
> At a minimum, this latest guilty plea in Mueller's investigation illustrates that the special counsel is scrutinizing the president's business connections to Russia. Shortly before being inaugurated, Trump tweeted, "I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NOTHING!" He elaborated at a press conference that his business dealings with Russians were limited to "selling condos," and one big real-estate deal in Florida, in which he sold to a Russian oligarch for about $100 million a mansion he'd purchased for about $40 million.
> 
> I would expect to see these assurances of minimal Russia ties repeated in Mueller's final report. They will, of course, be juxtaposed against the facts that the special counsel revealed today, using Cohen's guilty plea as the pretext. And I would expect to hear a lot more about the Trump Tower meeting.


Good info and timeline..... and really isn't too slanted of an article. Mostly states facts and his opinion on what could be coming down the pipe. :bop:


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## Plainsman

When Rosenstein come out and publically stated there was no collusion the investigation should have been done. At least. What should happen now is investigate the false dossier, the people who presented it to the FISA judge, and where did the dossier come from and who paid for it. Trump is not the villain here, he is the victim.


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## Chuck Smith

What I don't get is that they want to tie trump to Russia with his "business" dealings before he was elected president.

yet they don't investigate....

Clintons got money from Russians for speaking engagements and donations to the "Clinton foundation" all the while she was Sec. of State.

Bieden family got 1.5 billion deal from the PRC government while Joe was a VP.

Again... We need to see how all of this plays out but these two others have been proven and nothing of "collusion" with a Russian government.

The sad part of all of this and wasted money is that Trump during his campaign was mouthing off about "Russia" and Hillary. So now there MUST HAVE BEEN something underhanded that happened.

They already caught the "hackers" and found out that it was both sides (rep and dem) that they messed with. But now they want it to be Trump because nobody can still believe this ego maniac won the election. Because all the BS polling said Clinton would win in a landslide.... yet she lost. So they want to point out something. That is why this crap is still going on.

Sorry... just so sick of reading more and more stuff that isn't pointing at all towards collusion. But all is just a waste in tax payer money and helping to not get things passed in congress. I mean how come every 6 months or so in the past 4 years it seems we are faced with a "shut down". This is enough of this crap. :bop:


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## Plainsman

It's simply childish we didn't win so were going to punish you. The media keeps talking about collusion. Like Rush said today 75% of Americans are so uninformed (I say stupid) that they still believe there was collusion. What ever happened to integrity? I'm not sure journalistic integrity ever existed.


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## KEN W

Question.....Trump was having business dealings with Putin and Russia in early 2016. That is when the Republican primaries were just getting started ansd so were the debates with like 15 candidates on the stage. If Americans had known at that time that Trump was having dealings with our biggest eneny.....would they have picked him to be your candidate. I really doubt it. The other 14 would have taken him to the woodshed. :bop: :bop: :bop:

With the Trump team......it has always been lie now and keep on lying and clean it up later. We were fundamentally lied to for months. Oh no.....that meeting was about adoption. With these guys it comes down to is......"What can we get away with." 
uke: uke: uke: uke:


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## speckline

Question: Clintons got money from Russians for business dealings and donations to the "Clinton Foundation" all the while she was Sec. of State. (including speaking engagements and selling our uranium to Russians). This is while she was in office! If Americans had known at that time that Killary was having dealings with our biggest enemy.....would they have picked her to be their candidate? 
And why, hasn't she been investigated for collusion with the Russians and colluding to rig the democratic nominee? Remember Bernie getting screwed by Wasserman schulz?????.........etc :laugh:

Should have taken her to the firing squad :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

HYPOCRISY of the left :laugh: oke:


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## KEN W

Nope.....could say the same thing of the right. If she was breaking the law?????? Answer this.....Talk is cheap.Far right Republicans have had 2 years of government domination. Where is the investigation and criminal proceedings against Clinton? Only a dictator takes someone to a firing squad. Of course that's what the Walking Dead in the White House thinks he is. :laugh: oke: oke:

Besides you haven't answered my question.


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## Plainsman

> Question.....Trump was having business dealings with Putin and Russia in early 2016.


 I'm sure he was, and perhaps with China, France, Germany, and many other countries. There is nothing wrong with legal business dealings.



> That is when the Republican primaries were just getting started ansd so were the debates with like 15 candidates on the stage. If Americans had known at that time that Trump was having dealings with our biggest eneny.....would they have picked him to be your candidate.


 Why not?



> I really doubt it. The other 14 would have taken him to the woodshed.


 For what? They were to chicken crap to take Hillary to the woodshed and she sold uranium to the enemy.



> With the Trump team......it has always been lie now and keep on lying and clean it up later.


 That's what the media and their puppet politicians keep saying but in the end we always find out they are the ones lying. How many times have they got you excited with their reporting only to find out it wasn't true. We have been through this many times and the rug is always pulled out from under you. Sorry Ken, but I think it's going to happen again.



> Where is the investigation and criminal proceedings against Clinton?


 I have not given up hope yet. Her crimes were covered up by the FBI and the Justice department and the republicans just like the democrats are part of the swamp. We all know Hillary committed a crime. She can not be defended for that. The crime we all know of was the server she had in her house and used it for even classified documents. You know why I think she did it? I think she did it because the Clinton foundation got money from Russia and perhaps China for the classified documents they easily obtained from her server. She served them classified documents on a platter. Americas security sacrificed for a few bucks under the table and disguised as humanitarian through the Clinton Foundation.


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## huntin1

You guys better be careful, you keep badmouthing Hillary she will have you suicided. :wink:


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## speckline

:down: :huh: :dead:


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## Plainsman

> have you suicided


 Kind of the Hillary MO.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

Did you notice that there was an NPR interview with Don Jr. who came out and said that the talks ended in June of 2016. These are on record and I am sure already in the hands of Mueller. That is why the new "lying" plea deal is coming out. But again we need to find what else was he "lying" about. But so far it is just the dates of January and June of 2016. So not a BOMBSHELL... that the media is making it out to be.... so far.

Also you keep bringing up 2 years of Republicans in power. How do you think it would have been perceived if once the Mueller team was investigation then all of a sudden another "special counsel" is formed to go after Hilary..... You can just imagine the "headlines"..... TRUMP MUST BE GUILTY SINCE HE IS FORMING SPECIAL COUNSEL TO GO AFTER CLINTON".... the leftist media would have gone all over that. Look how they are totally against anything Nunes finds in his reports. oke:

I know the sticking point right now for the media is that the "real estate" project promised Putin an penthouse suite. Well if the real estate deal was still going thru. Then I could see issues. But the deal is done, dead, gone! So how is there ties? The Trump Organization isn't getting any money from Russia, business dealings in Russia, Russian banks or government financing.... So no need for "collusion" or "under the table" dealings is what the media is making it look like. NOTHING HAPPENED!!!!. Not one hole dug, not one wheel turned to move dirt, not one supply ordered for construction, not one piece of land bought, etc. So how is this "collusion"??? If the deal was going on then yep.... something to dig into. But this "fire" didn't even have a chance to make smoke. It is dead and buried...:bop:

So again another "media" smoke screen to show how inaccurate things at the border are and trying to keep the "trump is evil" narrative going.

BTW.... how is some of that border stuff going... I have seen many MSNBC and CBS reports saying that most of the people there are MEN. Most of the people there are not here for "political asylum" but just want jobs. Most of the people there were lied too by saying it is easy to get into the USA. Mexico offered them asylum and still are. Many of the people are talking about turning around and going back to their home countries. Lots of egg on the face of those media reports. Heck two I watched both the "reporter" on the scene said most of the people they were seeing were men. Yet they only showed on camera the women. One even was showing a food line "women and children" and then when that line ended the line next to that line was over double the length he off hand mentioned that is the "men food line". :bop:

But we do agree on this immigration BS. But shows you that anything the mainstream LEFT leaning media is saying isn't 100% true... and you can also say that about the right side leaning media.


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## KEN W

Chuck Smith said:


> Ken...
> BTW.... how is some of that border stuff going... I have seen many MSNBC and CBS reports saying that most of the people there are MEN. Most of the people there are not here for "political asylum" but just want jobs. Most of the people there were lied too by saying it is easy to get into the USA. Mexico offered them asylum and still are. Many of the people are talking about turning around and going back to their home countries. Lots of egg on the face of those media reports. Heck two I watched both the "reporter" on the scene said most of the people they were seeing were men. Yet they only showed on camera the women. One even was showing a food line "women and children" and then when that line ended the line next to that line was over double the length he off hand mentioned that is the "men food line". :bop:
> 
> But we do agree on this immigration BS. But shows you that anything the mainstream LEFT leaning media is saying isn't 100% true... and you can also say that about the right side leaning media.


Yes we agree.....finding a job is not a reason for asylum. I also saw that some are getting on busses and going back home. Others are deciding to stay in Mexico.


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## KEN W

Getting closer to finding out what is in the Mueller report. We will see. Might be something impeachable. Might not be. Maybe just corruptible and will cause normal Republicans to turn against Tiny Trump and choose someone else to run in 2020. :beer: :beer:


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## Plainsman

If the republicans run someone else the people will hate them, and they will loose because Trump will run as an independent and split the vote.
I doubt they will find anything impeachable because the vote wasn't affected. Colluding isn't a crime if it didn't directly affect votes. I get a kick out of how quick people get excited about collusion. I think the investigation 
already cleared Trump on collusion.

What's the new generation call this-------nothing burger?


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## dakotashooter2

Plainsman said:


> Cohen's crime exposed. He told Mueller he talked to Russians about a relistate deal in January 2016. Oh oh big crime, the date was June 2016. So Mueller cast this as a lie and will prosecute. I think Mueller should be prosecuted


I think he was just confused. After all both months start with a J...


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## Plainsman

Here is the problem. Trump is not guilty of collusion, but the left is guilty of delusion.


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## KEN W

Nope......Trump is guilty of collusion. The right is guilty of being lemmings.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Nope......Trump is guilty of collusion. The right is guilty of being lemmings.


 The FBI and the investigating team already said there was collusion. Even if there was it's not a crime and not impeachable. The news last night was talking about Mueller trying to prosecute things that are not crime. Flyn didn't do anything wrong so Mueller must have something on one of his family members he is blackmailing him with.


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## Chuck Smith

What this all will boil down to it wasted 2 years of tax payer money. Congress fighting over this crap and not doing a thing.... which will happen the next 2 years as well because it seems like the norm now. Nothing gets done in congress..... no matter what. Why do we keep having possible government shut downs, debt ceiling raises, etc. Because Congress doesn't do crap!! It has been that way for years. Both parties are at fault with this.... ie: way we need term limits!!!


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## Plainsman

> Both parties are at fault with this.... ie: way we need term limits!!!


 :thumb:


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## KEN W

I agree......term limits. For judges also. :thumb:


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## dakotashooter2

Here is what I envision the interrogations with Mueller sounded like.. M: Mueller I: inerviewee
M: Cooperate or I will prosecute you for lying under oath.
I: About what ?
M: That thing you lied about.
I: What thing and to who?
M: That thing you lied about to the people you lied to..
I: What ????????
M: We know you lied to some people
I: I did ?
M: Yes, about those things you lied about..
I: Can you tell me what things you are talking about?
M: I don't have to because you know what you lied about and to whom. 
I: So you have evidence I lied?
M: Yes
I: But you can't tell me about what?
M: I could but you already know
I: Run the whole thing by me again
M: You lied to some people about the thing you lied about.
I: arrrrgggg I give up ... If I say I'm guilty of lying about something I didn't lie about can I get out of here?
M: That's what I was looking for...


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## southdakbearfan

Plainsman said:


> Both parties are at fault with this.... ie: way we need term limits!!!
> 
> 
> 
> :thumb:
Click to expand...

I go back and forth on term limits. I have watched in south dakota what term limits has done, and basically it has put a bunch of single issue morons that have no interest or knowledge outside of one minor issue that ****** them off and made them run into office. It turns the whole thing into a circle jerk. Now, if a politician is good, does a good job, why would we want them run out because they have served x amount of time.

Now, get the backdoor money out of politics nationally, make it so they aren't millionaires the moment they are elected and get people actually interested and knowledgeable about issues into office and keep them there as long as they serve the will of the people.


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## KEN W

Need limits because once they get there, the only thing they want to do is to continuously work to stay there.


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## Chuck Smith

Cohen got sentenced to 3 years.

Still nothing new came out. Only thing still in the mix is the "Payments" to the two women. If they violated Finance Laws. Which Trump says it was a private transaction or that his "lawyers liability" would pay for it because he didn't "process" it correctly for the finance laws. But again... this is all civil not criminal stuff. So it is like what happened in the Obama administration.... fine and pay back the money.

Lets not forget the John Edwards funneled campaign money to a mistress and didn't do jail time. It was a civil case. :beer:


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## KEN W

Lying is still in the mix. Anyone who thinks the great and mighty Trump didn't know what was going on is naive. He knew EVERYTHING. Lying is what brought down Nixon. The Trump family will be indicted for lying.

These payoffs right before the election where hush money made to keep the women from coming out with the story. And now David Pecker who played a role in these payments is cooperating with Mueller. He has admitted he made the payment to McDougle to suppress the woman's story to prevent it from influencing the election.

These payments were made through a corporation. They are illegal because federal law prohibits a corporation from giving money directly to a candidates campaign.

Everyone with the last name Trump will come under big scrutiny. Trump himself will be up against a strong tough woman in Pelosi that he doesn't control. A VERY NEW CIRCUMSTANCE for Tiny Trump. :bop: :bop: :bop:


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## dakotashooter2

Calling his payoffs a campaign finance violation seems like a real stretch. Trump is no angel. Didn't vote for him because he was. I wanted to see what a businessman rather than a politician could do with this country. As far as collusion... Do you think if the Russians offered information to a conservative media source they wouldn't have jumped all over it. So what would be the difference. I'll even contend that the liberal media even and possibly the FBI, had some of the same information but wouldn't make it public. And as far as Trump and the Russians, if he has a working relationship with them I see that as an advantage. Keep your friends close and enemies closer. As I see it Trump is no more deceptive than any other politician we have had in office. The dems just haven't been able to find a way to leverage him so this is how they are going after him.


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## Canuck

Little lyin' Donald is going down!


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## Plainsman

> The Trump family will be indicted for lying.


 Will Pelosi go after Barron for colluding with Russia? The dark force runs deep in the liberals. oke: :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken,

This whole process is totally looking like what happened to Clinton for "LYING". Clinton LIED UNDER OATH.... I don't think Trump has done that....YET.

Remember the articles of impeachment brought up on former President Clinton was for lying about his affair. He didn't get impeached. Also you have to remember.... one of this affairs happened when he was the president and also gave that lady a job (Lewinsky). All of Trumps stuff happened when he wasn't in office or even running for office. It happened years previous when he was a "civilian". That is a huge difference IMHO. All of Clinton affairs/harassment happened when he held public office.

Below is a good study on the whole Clinton Impeachment.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/f ... count.html

A Snippet from the article above... 


> We learned that the Administration's decision to go on "a war footing" when allegations of the President's affair with Lewinsky first surfaced proved costly. Relentless attacks by Clinton and his aides on the Office of Independent Counsel and Linda Tripp angered Republicans, polarized debate, and made impeachment by the House inevitable. (At the same time, the aggressive approach might have made acquittal in the Senate inevitiable.)


Does that look familiar.... Trump attacking the counsel "witch hunt"!

Quotes from then President Clinton...


> That evening, December 19, 1998, on the South Lawn of the White House surrounded by Democratic supporters, the President thanked those who voted against the impeachment articles and urged that we "stop the politics of personal destruction. We must," he said, "get rid of the poisonous venom of excessive partisanship, obsessive animosity, and uncontrolled anger."





> "all Americans--and I hope all Americans--here and Washington and throughout our land--will rededicate ourselves to the work of serving our nation and building our future together


----------



## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> The Trump family will be indicted for lying.
> 
> 
> 
> Will Pelosi go after Barron for colluding with Russia? The dark force runs deep in the liberals. oke: :rollin:
Click to expand...

 Bet you didn't know that "The Walking Dead" is filming now in the White House. New episodes will start on Super Bowl Sunday. That's why the cabinet members are leaving the ship in droves. Most are being herded back to the cemetary, Plus the leader of the dead can't find anyone to take the Chief of Staff position. :laugh: :laugh:

Maybe you can go after that job? But don't get your hopes up. There are a lot of dead from the neck up conservatives lined up outside the White house. I saw it on FOX NEWS oke: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken...

Something that could be working in favor for the president.... #1 the non disclosure agreements. Remember if these were written up he was abiding by them.... before the election. So like the president has stated is that he directed his lawyer to do things. But if his lawyer did them dishonest (unknown to him) and didn't get the signatures and never told him. Well that isn't on the president. It is like if you hired a lawyer to do any paper work for you and he ends up not doing it correctly... it isn't on you. It is the Lawyers fault for not "practicing" law correctly. Which goes under his liability.

Again it needs to come out directly where Trump told him (and it is documented not he said/he said type thing) to do something illegal. Which "hush" money isn't illegal. Finance laws are illegal... but did Trump direct him to do it that way or did the lawyer screw up and not report them the way it was supposed to? That is the question. Also again I will point out the finance laws have been broken about reporting by many.... Obama, Edwards (during a presidential campaign to a mistress), etc.

Also the thing to remember about all of this... It is a civil case. Not criminal.

Like I mentioned above... it is just like what went on with Clinton. He never got impeached. That case study I have in the thread shows where people, the court, etc all screwed up on it. Which also means that Clinton should have never been brought up on the articles. Which was a major screw up by then Republicans who did it. But again the main point was that Clinton "LIED UNDER OATH".... as of now. Trump hasn't been under oath. The only thing he has is his answering questions in writing. Which nobody knows what those answers are. So if he "lied" in them.... yep he will be brought up just like Clinton was for articles of impeachment. But maybe he didn't... we don't know. Maybe that is why cohen got more stuff brought up against him for "lying". We just don't know that info as of yet.


----------



## KEN W

We will find out. Also you can bet that the new House subcommittees will subpoena his tax records. And as I said above there is NO way Trump didn't know what was going on. And he lied about knowing that the payments were made. 2019 will be a real interesting year when all the CRAP comes out. Plus there will be 20-30 Democrats who will announce they are running for president. That alone will be interesting.


----------



## KEN W

"Donald Trump attended an August 2015 meeting that federal prosecutors believe was central to a criminal scheme to violate campaign finance laws to help Trump win the presidency, according to a source familiar with the matter."

According to court filings, Trump was joined by Michael Cohen, who was his attorney at the time, and David Pecker, the chairman of American Media Inc., parent company of the National Enquirer.During the meeting, the group discussed a plan to shield Trump from potentially damaging stories. Prosecutors say this amounted to illegal donations to Trump's campaign.

Just like I said......Trump knew EVERYTHING that was going on and lied through his teeth. oke:

"Despite President Donald Trump's public declaration that he isn't concerned about impeachment, he has told people close to him in recent days that he is alarmed by the prospect, according to multiple sources." :bop:


----------



## Plainsman

> according to a source familiar with the matter."





> according to multiple sources."


 mmmhmmm, names or it didn't happen.

I hear s judge has orderedvsn investigation into the Clinton Foundation. Next headline: judge commits suicide. :rollin: Also the judge on the Fkyn case has ordered the FIB to turn over all files by tomorrow. I think Flyns case may be thrown out.


----------



## KEN W

I would definitely listen to sources over a guy who lies every time he opens his mouth. Like this..... :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Trump....."I didn't have sex with those women."

Trump....." I didn't discuss making payments to those women."

Trump......" I didn't know those women were paid to keep quiet."

Trump......Those were just gifts I gave those women."


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken...

Like I have said..... Trump thought a non-disclosure agreement was in place. That is why you hear him saying "I didn't sleep with these women". We don't know what was in that agreement.... maybe he would have had to pay millions to them if he broke it! Same goes with the National Enquirer.... if he talked about it would he have had to pay money?? We don't know.

Also again.... are these criminal or civil charges? Remember Clinton, Obama, Edwards and others have all had campaign finance law issues. They all were pay fines.

So again... all this stuff with the "hush money" to me is campaign finance law stuff that precedent has been set that people pay a fine.

Now.... were is the "collusion"???????? We don't hear squat about that anymore. The "Russian" spy... what ever her name was is showing a bad light on the NRA because that was her target... and she had success in breaching the organization.

Also.... I have no doubt that Trump knew of these payments. He is no angel and anyone who knew him before he was even thinking about running for office could see that. How many divorces and affairs did he have in the news. Ivana, Marla, and now Melina.... and he also dated a woman while she was getting a divorce.... Kara Young. So again all of this isn't a surprise to me at all.

I also agree with Plainsman on.... "sources"... how many times have these "sources" been false.

I was also like many.... I voted for Trump because I wanted to see a businessman run the country. Not a politician. And so far... it is what I expected..... economy is up, jobs are up... now I want to see spending cut.

I also agree that it will be very interesting in 2019. Because with all the Dem's wanting to throw there hat in the ring for being elected president... they will be posturing big time. You will see them "attack" Trump and Republicans all the way. Just to show off or get exposure. You will see more grandstanding and BS than we did with the Supreme Court hearings on both sides. The next year will be a disgrace for our country in many ways. Because the Republicans wont back down, Trump wont back down, Dem's will kick and scream even more, The media will go insane with everything..... it will divide our country even more. :bop:


----------



## KEN W

So next year will be like 2016? Remember 17 Republicans posturing to be the nominee??? Who can forget Republicans showing off to get exposure. uke: This happens EVERY time there is a mob of people trying to get the nomination. Doesn't matter the party.

You forgot.....Stocks are WAY down. Why???? Trade war coming with China.

Foretelling a recession next year. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## Plainsman

I seen a picture of the democrats that intend to run in 2020. I think there was 20 something. Good entertainment coming up.


----------



## KEN W

I think there might be more than 20. They will start announcing next month.Should be some entertaining debates in 2020. I would like to see one of the female candidates taking on Trump....Amy Klobuchar would get my vote.


----------



## dakotashooter2

That's the next thing we need more regulation on....campaigning. Some of these people spend more time campaigning than doing their jobs. Limit campaigning and fundraising to 9 months.


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## KEN W

Another zombie leaves the White house and heads for the cemetery....Interior Secretary Zinke out. This guy was really dead from the neck up.Thought he could do whatever he wanted at our expense. Probably the worst Trump appointee.


----------



## Chuck Smith

So were is the collusion???? - I hear crickets....

(don't say hush money payments because that isn't a crime.... morally wrong yes!)

Only thing that is possible right now is campaign finance laws that were breached. Which is a civil matter. But those are still up in the air. because if the money came directly from Trump it isn't an issue. If the money came from somewhere else... issue. That has yet to be seen exactly where the money trail begins. We know it ended to the women.

edit....

Ken you brought up the stock market...

Is some of the slumping or down in the "tech" sector. Which yes has something to do with china stuff but also all the facebook, google, etc... and stuff going on? You cant just point at one thing with the stock market. Yet the media will... both sides of the spectrum.... uke:


----------



## KEN W

It's coming. The Russians helped elect him and have been engaged in keeping him in office for 2 years. uke: uke:

But like I said.....we are better off with him in office through 2020 election......1 term president. :bop:


----------



## Chuck Smith

What I have read so far today is what we already know...

1. Russians help with attacking or "ads" of social media.
2. They didn't say to "vote" trump or Clinton. Actually they said to vote for Stein or Sanders.
3. They tried to suppress voter turn out. (which one person says helps republicans more than Dem's historically)
4. They targeted African Americans.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

But again... is this directly "collusion".... which again isn't a crime.

But most of this stuff has already been brought to the public already. Just not detailed.

So again... im still waiting... it has been 2 years!!!


----------



## dakotashooter2

KEN W said:


> It's coming. The Russians helped elect him and have been engaged in keeping him in office for 2 years. uke: uke:
> 
> But like I said.....we are better off with him in office through 2020 election......1 term president. :bop:


----------



## dakotashooter2

KEN W said:


> It's coming. The Russians helped elect him and have been engaged in keeping him in office for 2 years. uke: uke:
> 
> But like I said.....we are better off with him in office through 2020 election......1 term president. :bop:


Must have been that caravan of Russians that crossed the border and voted.......


----------



## dakotashooter2

So in other words. If the media or even a private party has dirt on a candidate that should be relevant to an election its OK for them to make it public but if someone from out of country has the same info it is not relevant and should not be made public ? If someone is dirty I want to know about it before they are elected. As long as it is valid I don't care who or where it comes from. Can assure you the bias media in this country had far more influence in this country that the Russians did..


----------



## Plainsman

> Can assure you the bias media in this country had far more influence in this country that the Russians did..


 Wow, isn't that the truth! The media is 92% negative on Trump. I don't have numbers for Hillary, but I'll bet it was at minimum 75% positive. More importantly most of the negative for Trump and much of the positive for Hillary are lies. Disappointingly most of the uninformed lemmings believe the lies and when proven a lie still believe it. The three Gods worshiped in the United States are Jesus (mine), Ala, and Hillary. Nothing less explains the blind reality denying loyalty to Hillary.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Plainsman....

It is funny on the whole border situation that a lot of the "footage" they are showing is from back when Obama was president. the other day they showed a video of border agents kicking over water jugs "left" for illegal immigrants crossing the border. Those videos were from 2011. Yet the media doesn't mention that. They just sit and bash Trump and show those videos. Same thing happened with "kids in cages".... yep an Obama era video.

It is so horrible how the media (yes I keep saying both sides) are not 100% truthful. It is more like they want to be a reality TV show and scream at each other or their guests. It is so stupid and getting very very old.


----------



## KEN W

Defense Secretary Jim Mattis leaving in February......Anyone left from the original cabinet???? :shake: :shake:

Another cabinet member leaving the sinking ship.....My guess.....Trumps boneheaded move of leaving Syria w/o any consultation with his security advisers.

The guy in the White House is at war, and there isn't any other way to say it, with the FBI, CIA, and now the 
Defense Department.


----------



## north1

Sounds good to me. Finally someone standing up for the American citizens. Not listening to political wonks hiding behind a uniform like the ones who said there were WMD's in Iraq so we should invade. Maybe Trump weighed all the info and decided against the recommendations made by some to stay in Syria? Is it a mistake? Time will tell.


----------



## KEN W

Here is a list of Trump people who are criminals......

Michael Flynn......Pleaded guilty

George Papadopoulos......Guilty and sentenced

Paul Manafort......Guilty on 8 counts

Rick Gates.....Pleaded guilty

Michael Cohen.....Guilty and sentenced

Roger Stone.....Indicted on 8 counts today

This is what happens when amateurs are put in charge of our government. They lie again and again because it's the way they do business.

And anyone who doesn't think Trump didn't know about all of this is naive. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## Chuck Smith

If you look at 90% of the charges are lying to the FBI. Some of those charges the FBI lied and said a lawyer didn't need to be present... :eyeroll:

Other charges were fraud, tax issues and what not before they were with Trump.

Other charges were not disclosing working with a forgien agent before working with Trump.

So most of it is a nothing burger (like the kids say today).

But people forget... Hillary lied to the FBI and no charges (server issues and emails). Interesting????

So again on this one.... as of now seems like NOTHING towards collusion or anything towards the president. But we need to see how it plays out.

The only thing right now out of all the people you stated and charges directly with the President are the Campaign Fincance stuff with Cohen and the women. Otherwise nothing in this probe. So is this going to be another "bombshell", "smoking gun" that does down as nothing. Time will tell. But out of all the stuff I have read on all news outlets is nothing. Same type of stuff others were charged with and have gone no where. :bop:

edit:

Look at this article from VOX (a horrible left leaning website).
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... grand-jury

Go down to when they explain in detail..... shows how or what people were lying about. Doesn't really point to "collusion".

Edit:

Direct quote from the article...


> So far, no Trump associates have been specifically charged with any crimes relating to helping Russia interfere with the 2016 election


----------



## Chuck Smith

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

An article about Stone's plea today....

Again... no smoking gun on COLLUSION....

Quote from article:


> *The indictment does not accuse Stone of coordinating with Russia or with WikiLeaks on the release of hacked Democratic emails.* But it does allege that he misled lawmakers about his pursuit of those communications and interest in them.


So he "misled"... which means he lied or didn't specifically mentioned an "email" or the specific times of it. Which Stone has publicly said he did. He said he forgot about an old email which Mueller dug up. Which lead to a "lying" offense or "misleading" charge. Did he do it intentionally... that is what we don't know.

Also another quote from the article....



> "All I did was take publicly available information and try to hype it to get it as much attention as possible, because I had a tip, the information was politically significant and that it would come in October," he added.


So now this will become a "crime".... :eyeroll:

So again... the BOMBSHELL, the SMOKING GUN, the WE GOT HIM.... is all pure BS!

Mueller is getting people mainly on perjury&#8230;. Which Mueller is known for all of his career in doing. No collusion!! Then he is digging up past tax issues and what not. Which I find is great and get those tax cheats and hammer them. But isn't that a job of the IRS not a billion or what ever it costs "special investigations" job????

Think of all the wasted money and time that has gone into this investigation when it could have been wrapped up a long time ago.


----------



## Plainsman

> Did he do it intentionally... that is what we don't know.


 They have to prove the false information was purposeful. Stone said his lawyers were laughing about that because it is very near impossible for a prosecuter to prove. He is sure he will win. I think that's why he is acting kind of cocky.

From what I have seen so far they are not actually going after him for lying, but for some type of procedural violation which is questionable if it's a crime that can even be prosecuted. I think he is home free on this one.


----------



## dakotashooter2

Trump is no angel. And I highly doubt that him sleeping then paying of a couple women would have had any influence on him being elected. Now maybe he was leaked information about Hillary by the Russians. And maybe he did use it Is the Russians spying on Hillary and providing information to Trump's office any worse than our former president and Hillary spying on Trump and making that information available to congressmen. Not in my mind. Hillary opened the door to being hacked herself and compromised our government far more than Trumps team accepting hacked information about Hillary. And Mueller may very well have found something on Trump but I suspect it can't be used without tying in Hillary.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> And Mueller may very well have found something on Trump but I suspect it can't be used without tying in Hillary.


This could be very true as well.

Which if it is true... Mueller isn't doing his job as an "independent" counsel. Because that is supposed to bring up charges on anyone who broke the law in his finding. Remember Congress gave him pretty much free will go dig deeper into things. Which is why we ae getting nothing on collusion but the other charges on these people. So if one camp is dirty and he finds stuff that the other camp is dirty. Those charges need to be brought up. If not... then the whole thing is a sham on the people. :bop:


----------



## Plainsman

> Those charges need to be brought up. If not... then the whole thing is a sham on the people.


 Little doubt of that, but that's the swamp Trump wants to drain. I think Muhler is holding a magnifying glass in his right hand looking for things Trump did and holding his left hand up side his face to hide his eyes from the things we all know Hillary did. He may or may not be loyal to either party, but he is loyal to the swamp.


----------



## KEN W

Wrong......the swamp is now at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. That's what needs to be drained. Either through impeachment or 2020 election. oke:


----------



## Plainsman

What would you impeach him for?


----------



## KEN W

Still coming. oke:


----------



## huntin1

Plainsman said:


> What would you impeach him for?


If they could get away with it they would impeach him because he woke up this morning. The hate is that strong. I truly believe that that most of them are mentally ill.


----------



## KEN W

You mean mentally ill like the Republican conservative Obama haters? Remember the "Party of No?" We vote no on EVERYTHING Obama wants. Sounds the same to me. What goes around comes around. uke: uke:


----------



## Plainsman

That's because we don't want to be communist.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken,

Ted Cruz had a great speech..... and none of it was disputed!!!

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Te ... ORM=VRDGAR

The "what comes around" attitude isn't how to run a government. It is what kids do. This is what is horrible about our politics. Guess what.... same thing will happen again and again. Until ADULTS break the cycle.

Also..... don't you think that if a "Russian agent" was a president.... Mueller would have had him kicked out already? A "Russian agent" running the country for 2 years!!!! This is all just pure BS. All they are trying to do is get a perjury trap somehow on everyone. It is Muellers ticket to fame. It is what he does and is good at it.

Edit....

Listen to Cruz speech. It shows how previous Dem's thought a "fence/wall" was a good idea and wanted more miles of it. But then are now back tracking all because it was "Trumps" idea. They don't want to give him another "win". They know his policy is working for the economy (so far), they are seeing that trade talks and deals are leaning more in favor of the USA. They are all doing this crap pointing towards 2020. I mean look how Harris is out campaigning so hard right now to get the nomination.


----------



## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> That's because we don't want to be communist.[/quo
> 
> Or a right wing ultra conservative NAZI. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## KEN W

Chuck......you are exactly right. To bad Conservatives didn't go by that during Obama years. It will not change any time soon.


----------



## Plainsman

At times I hope the democrats are stupid enough to keep it up. Then Trump can appoint two more judges after he is elected again.
When Obama was in the Republican Senate approved his appointments by a vast majority to give him a chance. The childish democrats tried to destroy Cavanah. Who is the party of NO? Little question it's the democrats. Their MO is to accuse others of what they do.

They also preach tolerance while being the most intolerant people you will meet. What they really want is acceptance of their twisted principles. What I don't get is they tolerate Muslims, but not Christians.


----------



## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> At times I hope the democrats are stupid enough to keep it up. Then Trump can appoint two more judges after he is elected again.
> When Obama was in the Republican Senate approved his appointments by a vast majority to give him a chance. The childish democrats tried to destroy Cavanah. Who is the party of NO? Little question it's the democrats. Their MO is to accuse others of what they do.
> 
> They also preach tolerance while being the most intolerant people you will meet. What they really want is acceptance of their twisted principles. What I don't get is they tolerate Muslims, but not Christians.


Sorry but Trump has only been in office 1 month with a Democratic House. Obama was in office a LOT longer with the Party of no. So who really coined the phrase? Not the Democrats.

Heck Trump barely got anything through when the "Party of NO" was in total control for 2 YEARS. Talk about inept.Times.....they are achanging.


----------



## Plainsman

> who really coined the phrase? Not the Democrats.


 Nearly every republican voted for Obama's supreme court pics. Can you say the same for the democrats? Of course not if you face reality.

Come on.....Not the same people each time. Or doesn't it matter who it is????


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken...

Thoughts on all the Abortion stuff going on right now? I believe it was in VA where a governor is stating to allow abortion to happen right up until birth! Again just catching snippets of this and also the guy would have mis-spoken,. But isn't that damn near murder?

Also look at how many Dem's now are selling out Israel and showing that they are "antisemetic" and not really backing away from it.

Honestly look at your party right now.... I thought Trump was out there when he was first running.... but some of these people down right scare me. Trump we knew was a businessman and if you watched his shows was a prick. And... well we got that right now. But economy is doing good, unemployment down, he helped the tax code (we will see how much now), etc. Socially from before elected we knew he was not most PC (to put it lightly). Which again is what we got. Now these people see straight nuts and want socialism/communism. You honestly cant say they don't. :bop:

Also the hard part I am getting is that Dem's voted for stuff trump wants but now are not because it is what he wants. That is totally different than just voting no on a presidents agenda. Also many of the Rep. that you say are the "party of No".... got screwed over by the ACA. So that is why they a lot of times voted no. Also if you can tell me of one good bill they shot down.... I mean was it funding (nope didn't shoot down funding government every time it came to shutdowns and what not). what were some of the "good" bills??? Just curious because I don't remember to be honest. If anything was really a good step forward bill or was it some bill that only affected 10% of the country but screwed up or messed with 100% of peoples lives like the ACA. I also firmly believe the ACA was meant to fail and push for socialized health care. But another topic.


----------



## dakotashooter2

Chuck Smith said:


> Ken,
> 
> Ted Cruz had a great speech..... and none of it was disputed!!!
> 
> https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Te ... ORM=VRDGAR
> 
> The "what comes around" attitude isn't how to run a government. It is what kids do. This is what is horrible about our politics. Guess what.... same thing will happen again and again. Until ADULTS break the cycle.
> 
> Also..... don't you think that if a "Russian agent" was a president.... Mueller would have had him kicked out already? A "Russian agent" running the country for 2 years!!!! This is all just pure BS. All they are trying to do is get a perjury trap somehow on everyone. It is Muellers ticket to fame. It is what he does and is good at it.
> 
> Edit....
> 
> Listen to Cruz speech. It shows how previous Dem's thought a "fence/wall" was a good idea and wanted more miles of it. But then are now back tracking all because it was "Trumps" idea. They don't want to give him another "win". They know his policy is working for the economy (so far), they are seeing that trade talks and deals are leaning more in favor of the USA. They are all doing this crap pointing towards 2020. I mean look how Harris is out campaigning so hard right now to get the nomination.


Has Mueller EVER convicted ANYONE of breaking a law other than perjury ? Is that's the best he can do. Kind of like being in awe about a guy that has shot several hundred deer in his lifetime only to find out they were all Bambies.... I'm not so sure Mueller could find jack in the jack in the box......


----------



## Plainsman

> Thoughts on all the Abortion stuff going on right now? I believe it was in VA where a governor is stating to allow abortion to happen right up until birth!


It's more gruesome than that. If the woman gives live birth it's her decision if it lives or not after the child is born. These liberals are becoming animals without a conscience.


----------



## KEN W

dakotashooter2 said:


> Chuck Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ken,
> 
> Ted Cruz had a great speech..... and none of it was disputed!!!
> 
> https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Te ... ORM=VRDGAR
> 
> The "what comes around" attitude isn't how to run a government. It is what kids do. This is what is horrible about our politics. Guess what.... same thing will happen again and again. Until ADULTS break the cycle.
> 
> Also..... don't you think that if a "Russian agent" was a president.... Mueller would have had him kicked out already? A "Russian agent" running the country for 2 years!!!! This is all just pure BS. All they are trying to do is get a perjury trap somehow on everyone. It is Muellers ticket to fame. It is what he does and is good at it.
> 
> Edit....
> 
> Listen to Cruz speech. It shows how previous Dem's thought a "fence/wall" was a good idea and wanted more miles of it. But then are now back tracking all because it was "Trumps" idea. They don't want to give him another "win". They know his policy is working for the economy (so far), they are seeing that trade talks and deals are leaning more in favor of the USA. They are all doing this crap pointing towards 2020. I mean look how Harris is out campaigning so hard right now to get the nomination.
> 
> 
> 
> Has Mueller EVER convicted ANYONE of breaking a law other than perjury ? Is that's the best he can do. Kind of like being in awe about a guy that has shot several hundred deer in his lifetime only to find out they were all Bambies.... I'm not so sure Mueller could find jack in the jack in the box......
Click to expand...

As the assistant attorney general for the criminal division of the Department of Justice (1990-93), he led the prosecution of the men held responsible for the December 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103.

"In his years investigating everything from street-corner crimes to terrorist bombings and bank fraud, Mueller established himself as a top-notch law enforcer who emphasized the government's responsibility "to protect its citizens from criminal harm within the framework of the Constitution."

Mueller was FBI Director for 12 years......and he did absolutely nothing. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

If that's not enough for you....look him up on Wikipedia.


----------



## Plainsman

Radical left Google would like everyone to think Nazi is right wing. However anything socialist is left wing. The name Nazi means:


> The National Socialist German Workers' Party,


 Kind of sounds like the unions in America which have gone far left. Currently democrats are anti Jewish also. When are they going to fire up the ovens. :rollin:

I'm watching some idiots on tv right now. Ken explain to me how we pay for Medicare for everyone. Do you think illegals should have free health care? If you were in New York would you be ok with your kids taking loans for college while illegals go for free? This is today's democrats.


----------



## KEN W

We went over this once before...... A name means nothing. You can call yourself anything you want.....NAZI Party IS ON THE RIGHT. COMMUNIST PARTY IS ON THE LEFT

NAZI definition......

National Socialism (German: Nationalsozialismus), more commonly known as Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsiɪzəm, ˈnæt-/),[1] is the ideology and practices associated with the Nazi Party - officially the National Socialist German Workers' Party (Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or NSDAP) - in Nazi Germany, and of other far-right groups with similar aims.

Plainsman are all you NAZI Conservatives and members of the KLAN in favor of gassing the blacks and illegals here??? You must be since you are lumping all Dems into giving free health to illegals and free education. :rollin: :rollin:


----------



## Plainsman

> You must be since you are lumping all Dems into giving free health to illegals and free education. :rollin:


 Many of the new younger democrats who say they will run for president are openly socialist, and advocate Medicare for all including illegals. You will have a tough decision in 2020.

This will also make it tough for long time democrats. Killing a born child is infanticide. The barbaric within the Democrat party are making it the party of death.


----------



## KEN W

Could be.....but then something is better than the nothing Republicans have come up with on health care the past 2 plus years. Still waiting. Anyone can come up with nothing. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Let me know when the Republican health care plan is out. :huh: :huh: But then we both will be long gone when that happens.


----------



## Plainsman

There are many things the republicans should have done and did not. Many or even most are part of the swamp. However the things they have not done are not as bad as what the democrats have done. Trump has done very well with the economy, democrats continue with a strategy that will bankrupt our nation. They prefer illegal aliens to citizens, and now we see liberal states willing to kill live children. In all seriousness I'm afraid a place in he'll is prepared for some of these barbarians.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken...

The "far right" was added to Wiki and the definition just recently (not sure how many years). But yes now the "new Nazi" or the "American Nazi" are a far right bunch of nutbags.

But my question to you... who is now with the stuff going on in NY, VA, and now RI are acting like Hitler. Think about it they are talking about aborting children once "abnormalities" are found. Even right during birth they can abort them. So what did hitler do? He killed babies and children who handicaps and who didn't meet his "blonde hair blue eyes" vision. So now these three states (and I am sure more will follow) want to give a parent the right to abort a child if they are not "perfect".

So to those Dem's in those states... they are NAZI's if they support these bills. :bop:


----------



## Plainsman

Absolutely right about abortion and Nazi's Chuck. Hitler believed in evolution and he was racist as are most evolutionists. You don't hear much about it, but Hitler thought great apes and black people could interbreed and he tried to do it.

History isn't going to be worth the paper it is written on soon if people don't know the Socialist party in Germany was ------- big surprise ------- socialist.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Well back to the Mueller investigation....

Well remember how they Dem's thought a smoking gun pointing towards the president is the calls his son made before/after the meeting to "blocked" numbers. They wanted it to me to the President.... Well..... they were made to business associates. Not the President.

Now this news could mean that Trump Jr. could have "mislead" or "lied". But we don't know. What I mean by that is he didn't tell the Special Counsel who those calls were too. Which could be a "perjury" trap Mueller set for him. But again... we don't know what exactly he told the special counsel. So he could have told the truth all along. We just don't know as of yet.

But it is showing that the "collusion" story is all BS


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken....

Coming out today that Schiff doesn't think Mueller is doing his job. When in fact the stuff he wants him to investigate he already has the info on... The German Bank.

So thoughts on this "House" investigation... or the "new" investigation. Is it going to waste tax payers time, money, and confidence???


----------



## KEN W

So far there have been......

People sentenced to prison......4

Conviction at trial.....1

Guilty pleas........7

People /entities charged with crimes.......37

Overall criminal counts.......199

Word is that the Mueller investigation could come out next week. Question is.....How much will released to the public.


----------



## Plainsman

AND, non of it linked to Trump. Don't let hate get your hopes up. We have already been told twice that there was no collusion. I would guess that in the Washington swamp if Mueller was to investigate both sides he would have doubled his convictions. Some of his convictions are questionable and only exist because of his huge ego. If someone asked you everything you put money in years ago chances are very good that you, and anyone else would forget a couple of things. Mueller considers that lying to him. Oh my someone forgot to tell the little king something. Someone should investigate why he and the FBI didn't do a better job investigating Hillary. The entire nation knows she committed a felony, but she is trying to decide if she should run for president again. She should not be able to run for any public office. She should be behind bars. Don't tell me about Trump if you have not called your representatives and asked that Hillary be investigated.


----------



## speckline

KEN W said:


> So far there have been......
> 
> People sentenced to prison......4
> 
> Conviction at trial.....1
> 
> Guilty pleas........7
> 
> People /entities charged with crimes.......37
> 
> Overall criminal counts.......199
> 
> Word is that the Mueller investigation could come out next week. Question is.....How much will released to the public.


All satellite charges completely separate from the original scope of the investigation - trump collusion with russia
Even a blind squirrel like mueller can find a nut if you have over 30 million dollars to play with, no time frames for completion, and nobody to answer to for your ineptitude!!!


----------



## Chuck Smith

> Word is that the Mueller investigation could come out next week. Question is.....How much will released to the public


This will be interesting and if it doesn't get "completely" published. How much more money will be spent and time wasted in courts? Remember the report will be made public if it pertains to the actually collusion issues or "Russian" interference. The report isn't supposed to be used for Political gain... either way. Which we don't know what has been found. If it has ammo for people to go after Dem's or not. But again the Dem's are already thinking that they will need to suopena the report and what not. Which again will take up time and waste money. Just like the Kavanaugh hearings, Just like the new Schiff "investigation", even the Reps. investigation of collusion (house), etc. All waste of time, money, and resources.

I remember when this all started the Dem's were so happy that Mueller is taking the job and will get to the bottom of everything and he will do what is right. Well now when he is coming up empty they are questioning Mueller. :eyeroll:


----------



## NDHunt354

KEN W said:


> So far there have been......
> 
> People sentenced to prison......4
> 
> Conviction at trial.....1
> 
> Guilty pleas........7
> 
> People /entities charged with crimes.......37
> 
> Overall criminal counts.......199
> 
> Word is that the Mueller investigation could come out next week. Question is.....How much will released to the public.


Show me the man and I'll show you the crime. Would a reasonable prosecutor try the case? That's the question, right? Not* if* a crime has been committed.


----------



## southdakbearfan

KEN W said:


> So far there have been......
> 
> People sentenced to prison......4
> 
> Conviction at trial.....1
> 
> Guilty pleas........7
> 
> People /entities charged with crimes.......37
> 
> Overall criminal counts.......199
> 
> Word is that the Mueller investigation could come out next week. Question is.....How much will released to the public.


Politics aside, show me anyone that either has that many criminals working for them or around them and I would pretty much say that person also is highly likely to be a criminal.

These are people with means, and people with means do not plead guilty unless they are severely screwed. They litigate it out endlessly until fatigue, costs, hung jury's or other things set in, they don't plead guilty.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> These are people with means, and people with means do not plead guilty unless they are severely screwed. They litigate it out endlessly until fatigue, costs, hung jury's or other things set in, they don't plead guilty.


You are correct. But how many of these are "perjury" or "failure to notify". What it boils down to is they didn't say they had a convo or met someone. Which is easy to prove. They had a sworn statement saying, "no I haven't met so and so" or "have you had any communication with so and so". Then the Mueller team shows a picture, eye witness testimony, an email where someone was CC on it, an event party guest list, an itinerary, etc. One of the counts drawn up on someone is that they said they never met someone and at a big dinner they show a picture of them like a photo op. Didn't say they had a convo or colluded. It was just that they lied about meeting someone. Which that person said it was a 2 min intro and photo and that was it. That they did that 100 times that night. But the paper trail is there so they cant dispute the evidence and you lied to a fed. Which is a felony.

So you plea guilty... plus who knows what "deal" did they get. So your quote above is correct 99% of the time. This time the evidence or paper trail is there and you cant refute that or tie that up in court. you plead guilty and strike a deal. Which most of these have done.

Then lot of the other stuff is all tax issues or business dealings. Which they didn't fill out the correct paper work or didn't pay taxes. All of this was before Trump was president. Again easy stuff to prove and hard to refute. ie: Paper trail.


----------



## KEN W

Well some of the Trump lies should start to come out tomorrow. Public testimony by Micheal Cohen in the House. I'm sure it will be live on the news channels.Senate was to chicken to have it public today. :eyeroll:

May depend on what questions are asked. You can bet the Democratic controlled oversight committee will not hold back. :bop: :bop:


----------



## Plainsman

I can't help but wonder if Cohen didn't keep telling stories until he hit upon one Muhler liked.


----------



## KEN W

I don't think so. Remember the FBI raided his home and office and got volumes of evidence. So there should be evidence to back up some of what he knows and tells us. I have a feeling the hearing tomorrow will be Republicans trying to get him to shut up and say he is either lying (like that clown Goetz tweeted today.....this guy needs to be censored by the ethics committee for trying to intimidate a testifying witness) and Democrats trying to get him to answer. 40 some Reps on the committee.....could really turn into a real cat fight.


----------



## Plainsman

Ken don't let your hopes go to far you could get burned for about the 20th time. oke: 

Edit: There are some congressmen on tv right now saying they know what is coming up and it's all a rehash of everything we already know. They say it's all theater. I guess it's Kool-Aid for those who want to drink it.


----------



## KEN W

Also You should check your lemming fur for burns before you go over the cliff following the conman, crook, swindler, hustler, deceiver, fraud, cheater, bunco artist, flimflammer, and scammer,with the long Pinocchio nose. :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## Chuck Smith

Today should be interesting.

But I am not holding my "breathe" for another "BOMBSHELL". They showed a check that Trump sent to Cohen for $35,000 he claims is "hush money" to the women. Which we already know and is a "finance" law violation. Which everyone knows about and has talked about. It will be a fine just like all the people before him have had to pay. So no "impeachment" or "collusion".

then the other part of the article I have read to day says he will talk about how "racist" trump is and what comments he has said. Again not correct or PC so to speak. But again are not impeachable offenses or any "collusion" type stuff. The only one is the time frame of the Wikileaks and Stone. Which again a time line already out there shows everything is "after" the fact so to speak. That will be the interesting one... and if Cohen has "proof" other than his own words. Because the other side has a recorded time line as proof.

He is also talking about Russian meetings into 2016. Which have been hashed over and over. It just needs more "proof" and not his "word". Which again we will see if he produces or is just more lip service from him.

He is also claiming that from 2011-2013 Trump sent letters to schools, colleges, etc. saying he didn't want his grades or SAT's released. Well this is all before he was president. So what does this show?? How is this "Russian" collusion or anything that pertains to impeachable offensives?

But it will be interesting what comes of all of this. I still think so far it is all a dog and pony show. But we will wait and see.


----------



## KEN W

Trump the goat farmer......he keeps goats at his golf courses so he can get a farmland tax break....keeps him from paying many thousands in property taxes. uke:


----------



## Chuck Smith

Well if goats are on location and he is "farming".... it isn't breaking the law. It is using the loop hole. Just like how some Sports stars were "farmers" and getting subsidies. :beer:

We might not think it is right but it isn't violating laws. Like I said... as long as the animals are on the course and in a "farming" type operation.


----------



## Chuck Smith

I have been following some of this testimony on twitter as time permits.

It is a break down of this...

1. He has no proof of collusion just his word saying Russian business dealings were going on in 2016. Which isn't illegal and we know about.

2. He is throwing out racist or racism. Yet it is coming out now that Cohen asked Candice Owens to "lie" to make a racist angle towards trump. Again this isn't impeachable offense. But is a discredit to him for re-election and politically moving forward. But everyone has been calling him racist since day 1. So I see no real change.

3. The stormy/women pay off issue. Which again we all know about and if it is a campaign finance violation. Which has been hashed out over and over.

So again... No "bombshells" so far. Only against Cohen and his credibility... ie: Owens story, and he just got more charges against him for failure to register on his lobbying in Kazakstan.

But again... only getting tid bits from twitter.

The things I am seeing is damaging stuff for re-election of in public opinion. Which he has done enough on his own in that aspect. :bop: But legality... it is the same stuff over and over again. So nothing "new"... as of yet.

Like I mentioned... dog and pony show.


----------



## Plainsman

I had to laugh when they said Lanny Davis was his attorney for free. He may not be paying Davis, but either the democrat party is or Hillary.

Nothing new. Same old accusations. I guess they think if they say it enough times a percentage of people will begin to believe it. I could walk in with a check and tell someone it was to pay off little green Martians for services rendered. He also said he come in voluntarily, but the chairman asked him. Which is it he come in at the chairman's or he contacted them to come in voluntarily. I guess if they asked and didn't have to subpoena it's ----- say wait a minute. That FBI guy wanted to come in voluntarily and not be subpoenaed because if your subpoenaed your under oath. Hmmmm yup dog and pony show. Muhler has nothing and the democrats are crapping their pants. This is going to get ugly for them.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Saw this on twitter....

So take it with a grain of salt and could be true or a lie.



> Follow Follow @paulsperry_
> 
> BREAKING: Cohen testified that he went over "topics" that Democrats would raise at today's hearing with lead anti-Trump attack dog, Adam Schiff (D-CA), chairman of the House intelligence committee. So the substance of his testimony was coordinated with the Democratic leadership


Also Cohen stated he has never been to Prague or the Cezh Republic. So does that go against the Steel Dossier? Which started the whole "Russian" bs????

So either he is lying again or the Dossier is a sham. Neither of which is good for the Dem's and the Russian collusion narrative.


----------



## Plainsman

As crazy is the media was given information ahead of time, but the republicans on the committee were not.

:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: Another big nothing burger. All he said she said grandstanding.


----------



## Chuck Smith

I think all of this is trying to get "momentum" for Schiffs claims/investigation. Especially when much of the Mueller report has been "leaked" saying no collusion.

So they are trying to find or grasp at straws to get some legitimacy to Schiffs investigation. Which if Mueller comes back as nothing. The public will say why go ahead with Schiffs and waste more time, money, and effort. Even some Dem's who I know were and still are against Trump. Think the investigation needs to be over and much of the "hoopla" is turning into BS political opportunists and stunts. Not really "fact finding". Because nothing new has come to light. So they want to see the report and move forward. Which I think much of the US wants.

I wonder what MSN, CNBC, and CNN will do once all of this plays out. Will they actually have to report on news? Instead of screaming RUSSIA for 30 mins of a 60 min show? They will need to find other content for those 30 mins... :rollin:


----------



## Plainsman

Cohen is giving his final thoughts and he talks about closing gov, a wall, shouting down immigration from countries by religion, etc etc. Pure political.

Cohen never touched collusion. He called Trump all the names the media loves, so he is playing to the liberals. Bottom line is no collusion, and Trump never told him to lie.

To me it looks like they set up this hearing to detract from Trumps summit with North Kores.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Or the back ground check thing on gun legislation. :bop: :eyeroll:


----------



## Plainsman

I was watching the Five on FOX. The idiot Juan Williams says the signed check Cohn has is proof of a crime. So if I get a check from someone for a used lawn mower can I hold it up as proof that the person who wrote it has committing a crime.

Remember when the media wanted us to take it serious when Trump humorously said "hey Russia can you find Hillary's 3000 emails". I thought it was hilarious and couldn't believe the media wanted to take it serious. I'm sure they knew better, but if they could convince a million idiots it may tip the election. Then at one time Trump was trying to tell everyone how loyal his supporters were. He said he could shoot someone on 5th avenue and they would still all vote for him. It's called hyperbole. Maybe the media thinks Jesus actually meant that you should pluck your eye out if it offends you. Well now Cohen wants us to believe Trump was serious. Sure and the tooth fairy is a hit man for hire.

I'll tell you what Cohen is up to. If he tells a good enough story he may get time of his sentence. If he doesn't do well perhaps the there is another crime they will charge him with. Muhler has him by the short hairs and is squeezing. He is on loan from Muhler to the house democrats. Dance Mikey dance.


----------



## huntin1

This is kinda funny.


----------



## KEN W

More sad about the garbage people can come up with.


----------



## KEN W

Chuck.....the Flim Flam Man is on the way home. Where is the Great Negotiator? The Deal Maker? 8,000 miles over to Viet Nam on our dollar. In your posts you always say what a waste of money these hearings are. But it's OK to go all the way to Viet Nam for nothing? Talk about a waste of our tax dollars. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## KEN W

Now that I've seen what the conservatives on here think about yesterday's hearing. Here is my take.....all Every Republican did was say...."you are a liar." Again and again and again. Yup we all knew that before it started. They didn't ask any questions about what went on with his association with the Flim Flam man for 10 years. Democrats did.

Why didn't 1 Republican ask about the $35,000 check paid to Cohen to pay off a porn star to keep her mouth shut until after the election and signed by the liar in the White House? Because they were told not to. Including Armstrong from ND. Republicans were in "attack mode ALL Day." Especially that Yahoo Jordan who leads the ultra far right Freedom Caucus.

Yup......Cohen is a liar and will go to prison. But there is more to come. This is just the opening salvo to get Con Man out of the White House.

Trump on Thursday said he does not hold North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un responsible for Otto Warmbier's death after Kim denied knowledge of the American student's maltreatment.

"He felt badly about it. He felt very badly," Trump said at a news conference after his second summit with Kim, after saying they discussed the matter privately. "He tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word."

His buddy wouldn't do that would he. They shipped the kid home in a coma for crying out loud.


----------



## huntin1

So, we know that Cohen is going to prison for lying. Why is it that you, and the rest of the Democrats expect America to believe anything that he "testifies" to concerning Trump? Would it not be likely that he is lying here also?

In my profession, we have something called the Brady Exception or Exclusion depending on who you talk to. Simply stated, if I am caught in a lie, I can no longer testify for the prosecution in a legal setting. Basically, if I lie under oath one time, nothing I say in the future is to be trusted. Why is Cohen not being held to a similar standard? Using this standard, anything he says is tainted and should not be used in a legal proceeding.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken....

I agree with wasted time and money. But a trip to talk about disarming nuclear weapons really isn't a waste. He didn't come away with anything at all. Which is sad. But he had discussion. How many talks did other presidents have with NK? Oh wait Denis Rodman had more talks than anyone. Which is a sad state for the USA... IMHO.

I would say that if trump was flying over there to just "take a vacation" that is a waste.

A 2 year probe that hasn't turned up any collusion. Even Cohn stated no collusion. Is a waste. Which when mueller is done with his investigation. It should be a closed and done deal. But it wont be. It this was wrapped up in a year.... I wouldn't see it as big of a waste. Still a waste but things needed answers....and they have found out the answers. Which so far is NO COLLUSION!

But you are correct the Reps were on attack mode. I am sure the reason why not asking questions is because they new all the answers already. To be honest AOC asked good questions. But the thing with her questions is that all of those "crimes" are already being investigated in NYC. So they were asking questions to answers they already knew. Like I said... it was all a dog and pony show. Because the only "crime" or possible "crime" that Cohen talked about is the payments to the women. Which is a campaign finance law issue. Which we knew about. Saying someone is racist, sexist, etc. Those are not crimes. Wrong yes... crimes no.

Also Cohen contradicted himself in much of his testimony yesterday. He contradicted what he wrote down on paper and submitted to Congress. He contradicted previous testimony. So is he still lying? He already was caught lying once. Also the key point which spear headed the whole Mueller investigation... the STEEL DOSSIER... had false info on Cohen (if he is telling the truth) that he was never in the countries that it said he was in. So if you want to believe his testimony is accurate... then you cant deny the fact of this statement. So the STEEL DOSSIER is wrong and full of false info. :bop: I mean so far all evidence of the Mueller investigation is pointing towards NO COLLUSION.

So what is the rest of this testimony and stuff proving? What are they looking for? Campaign finance laws that were broken... already found.... trump sleeps around... already found. What else?? The media already calls him racist and sexist. So no need to keep beating that dead horse. What are they trying to find???? Why to they keep rehashing the same questions over and over and over? They keep getting the same answers over and over and over.

Also you want to talk about wasted money. Do you know that Pelosi's budget for booze on her flights to and from CA are over $100,000 a year. Let me rephrase that it is for "in flight services" (food and booze). We are talking about a roughly a 5 hour flight. Which is about $1000 a week. This is just for that part of the flight!!! But I don't want to just throw her under the bus I am sure there are people on both sides other than her that rack up these types of bills. It is just that Pelosi's were published. Which is a WASTE of Tax payer money. :bop: You know the $400 hammer, the $1000 toilet seat, etc. Those things are the issue.


----------



## KEN W

huntin1 said:


> So, we know that Cohen is going to prison for lying. Why is it that you, and the rest of the Democrats expect America to believe anything that he "testifies" to concerning Trump? Would it not be likely that he is lying here also?
> 
> In my profession, we have something called the Brady Exception or Exclusion depending on who you talk to. Simply stated, if I am caught in a lie, I can no longer testify for the prosecution in a legal setting. Basically, if I lie under oath one time, nothing I say in the future is to be trusted. Why is Cohen not being held to a similar standard? Using this standard, anything he says is tainted and should not be used in a legal proceeding.


My question.....The Flim Flam man has lied continously for over 2 years. So using your analogy.....why would you and the the rest of the right Republicans believe ANYTHING this clown says?????


----------



## KEN W

Chuck.....it is a waste when his intelligence agencies don't believe anything Un says or does.

You are correct.....SO FAR no collusion. but the investigations aren't over yet.


----------



## huntin1

Wow, classic misdirection, do you have the Democrat NPL handbook at your fingertips?

But, we weren't talking about Trump, we were talking about Cohen.

Since you can't help yourself, Sure, he's lied about some things, show me a politician that hasn't. But lied continuously? Only in your hate filed imagination.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> Chuck.....it is a waste when his intelligence agencies don't believe anything Un says or does


So do you think that is maybe why he went over to discuss?



> You are correct.....SO FAR no collusion. but the investigations aren't over yet.


They started a new one when the old one isn't over? So when the new one isn't finding anything... do they start another... and another and another?

This is a ploy to keep this narrative in the media until the next election cycle.


----------



## KEN W

huntin1 said:


> Wow, classic misdirection, do you have the Democrat NPL handbook at your fingertips?
> 
> But, we weren't talking about Trump, we were talking about Cohen.
> 
> Since you can't help yourself, Sure, he's lied about some things, show me a politician that hasn't. But lied continuously? Only in your hate filed imagination.


A lie is a lie.....Trump has been lying for 2 years. So him doing it is OK? But Cohen doing it isn't? Boy you will follow this guy over the cliff. No matter what he says and does....evidently he is right.....He could shoot some one on 5th Ave and his base wouldn't care. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## KEN W

Chuck Smith said:


> Chuck.....it is a waste when his intelligence agencies don't believe anything Un says or does
> 
> 
> 
> So do you think that is maybe why he went over to discuss?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct.....SO FAR no collusion. but the investigations aren't over yet.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> They started a new one when the old one isn't over? So when the new one isn't finding anything... do they start another... and another and another?
> 
> This is a ploy to keep this narrative in the media until the next election cycle.
Click to expand...

 I always thought ....it was follow the evidence. Collusion is probably not what we will see. We still don't know what Mueller is finding out. I want to see it Don't you?Will the Justice Dept release it?

I believe that Trump is nothing more than the Godfather of the Trump family of criminals. oke: oke:


----------



## Plainsman

> Why didn't 1 Republican ask about the $35,000 check paid to Cohen to pay off a porn star to keep her mouth shut


 There was no evidence of that. If I present a check for $10 and say it was for milk at Walmart how do you know it was for milk at Walmart. You simply choose to go over the cliff as you say and believe it. No evidence.



> A lie is a lie.....Trump has been lying for 2 years.


 Under oath is much different as hunt1 tried to explain. It's why Cohen is going to prison. The left cries lie so often while they do it that I have forgotten. What lie are you talking about that Trump told?



> Chuck.....it is a waste when his intelligence agencies don't believe anything Un says or does


 I don't believe the UN either. Even though we pay the lions share of their budget countries within it constantly vote against us. The UN milks the United States while being anti United States. We would be gullible at least, and stupid more than likely to believe them.



> I always thought ....it was follow the evidence. Collusion is probably not what we will see.


 Even the collusion investigation is based on a lie which is the false dossier. There is no basis for any of the investigations. It's childish destroy at any cost even our country.



> I agree with wasted time and money.


 Maybe not Chuck. You can't win everything. National security is much more serious than doing a business deal. Walking away when you don't get something of value in return is the right thing to do. However, I see a strategy here. Everyone says why Vietnam. Well their gov has radically changed. They are more like us than China or N Korea. Like us they are becoming wealthy, and their standard of living is high. Kim J seen that. I wonder what he thinks of that? I think his experience in Vietnam needs to incubate in his mind for a time. Another meeting in a year would be good. None of us should expect to much to fast. Right Ken?


----------



## KEN W

I was talking about Dictator Un of North Korea.......not the UN. But you are absolutely correct about the UN....Time to have others pay their share. Same with NATO. Pay up or we are out. Close all those oversea bases unless Germany, Japan, Great Britain, South Korea pay for them.

The way it looks to me.....we won't get anything from NK.

Why didn't Republicans yesterday say......"the President couldn't have done any of this. Wouldn't have done any of this." All I heard from every one of them was non stop attacks on Cohen. Could it be that Cohen is right? If not.....why didn't they say ONE word about his accusations. Nada even from big mouth Rep Jordan about the $35,000 check.


----------



## speckline

-Video insulting muhammad caused the bengazi attack
-you can keep your doctor...period
-aca will save the average family 2500 in insurance premiums
-syria use of chemical weapons is a line in the sand
-"The steel industry is producing as much steel in the United States as it ever was. It's just (that) it needs one-tenth of the workers that it used to."
-"My position hasn't changed" on using executive authority to address immigration issues.
-"Most young Americans right now, they're not covered" by health insurance.
-"We have doubled the distance our cars will go on a gallon of gas."
-Because of Obamacare, "over the last two years, health care premiums have gone up -- it's true -- but they've gone up slower than any time in the last 50 years."
-"Over the last four years, the deficit has gone up, but 90 percent of that is as a consequence of" President George W. Bush's policies and the recession.
-"Fast and Furious" began under the Bush administration.
-"The only time government employment has gone down during a recession has been under me."
-"For the first time since 1990, American manufacturers are creating new jobs."
-"I made a bunch of these promises during the campaign. ... We've got about 60 percent done in three years."
-Under President Barack Obama, the United States has "doubled our exports."
-"I didn't raise taxes once."
-"The vast majority of the money I got was from small donors all across the country.''
-"We've excluded lobbyists from policymaking jobs."

Hypocrisy of the liberal left, fixating of trump's "lies" and totally ignoring all obongos blatant lies!! :shake: :eyeroll: uke:

Politician = lies :bop:


----------



## speckline

Killary...
https://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2016/08/1 ... ck-it-out/

Of course this is just coincidence!!!!

Liberal lies


----------



## Chuck Smith

Speckline&#8230;

Some of Tumps "lies" are his over exaggerations. Like this is the best, im the best, etc. So they fact check and find out back in 1972 something was better. Or 6 years ago something was the same or better. Those are the "lies" people keep pointing out. So they say, "Trump lies constantly".

But we have also seen some "fact checkers" are lying as well. So it is all just political BS on much of the "lying". Now his "lying" about not paying the women or denying. Sure... but he also thought he had a Non-Disclosure agreement enforced&#8230; which his lawyer Cohen didn't follow the correct procedure....ie: getting the correct signatures. But if Trump thought it was a binding agreement... he was doing what it stated and denying. He was caught in the middle. Not saying any of this is right but just saying what happened. This was also all political on Trumps part.

But yeah the total media "bombshells" from this testimony has turned up false again. It is the same stuff getting rehashed over and over. I think the Dem's wanted it public so that they could open the line of subpoenaing others. They want written or documented testimony or something so they have the path to subpoena tax records, other witnesses, etc. Which again lots of that stuff is already in court in NYC.


----------



## speckline

Chuck,
I agree with you, some are over exaggerations, MANY are slanted news stories by msm, most are nothing more than liberals throwing crap against the walls trying to make something stick.

Liberal talking points lies, lies, lies. Gets as old as Marcia, Marcia, Marcia with the hypocrisy of ignoring the lies told by the left during obongo years, not to mention the true collusion of election fixing the dnc pulled with wasserman schultz against bernie in the dnc primary, which the country ignored. Without bernie out of the way, killary may not have even been on the ticket in 2016, but we'll never know!


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexand ... turns/amp/

This is a good read on why maybe trump is hiding his tax returns.

But I don't understand how government officials with clearance cant find out if he is under audit or not.

You are correct about yelling election fraud when things happened in their own back yard that they are ignoring.

But I also read another article where Pelosi is kind of "threatening" other Dem's for voting with Republicans. So this party line BS has got to stop. ON ALL SIDES!

https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2019 ... ts-1195854

Also to show you how the media is full of it. I saw one article saying GDP is at 3.1% and another on CNBC saying it is at 2.9%. So of course in the CNBC article they are complaining how Trump is wrong and lying. While the other one had a graph that was on the white house CEA twitter feed. I don't know which one you believe because numbers can be maneuvered to make what you want. But either way... being close to 3% is a good thing. :bop:

But to be honest I wont trust completely some of the CNN, CNBC, MSN, etc. Because they ran with the story that having lower tax rebates means the tax code is a fraud. Which it is the exact opposite. If you are getting less back means you didn't pay as much in taxes into the government. Which is exactly what the bill was supposed to do. :beer:

edit:

White House CEA article and graph

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/201 ... s-economy/

CNBC Article

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/02/28/tru ... -2018.html

Also it states in it the 3.1% but some how talks about 2.9%... again this is different factors which an economics doctorate would need to explain. But again.... it shows growth. But what the media wants to play up is "a lie" or "see Obama did it". Which again is all political BS just like when Reps say.. well Obama did this so trump can too. Or the what comes around goes around Party of No crap. It is all CRAP. Do what is right for the country... compromise and find middle ground. Don't vote on party lines. Remember the constitution says "WE THE PEOPLE"... not "DEMS are the people" or "REPS are the people". :bop:


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## huntin1

> This is a good read on why maybe trump is hiding his tax returns.


He doesn't have to "hide" his tax returns. There is NO Constitutional requirement that any President release a tax return. Just because other Presidents have chosen to release their returns doesn't mean that this or any other President is required to.


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## Chuck Smith

Huntn&#8230;

Correct. But that Forbes article states that he doesn't want "think tanks" going over it with a fine tooth comb.

Also here is another tid bit into all of this "testimony". Cohen is getting referred for more perjury charges from yesterday. So even with what I talked about of his saying he wasn't in CZECH REP which contradicts the Steel Dossier. What part of his testimony if any do you believe. Because both sides cant say... well that is true.. .but that isn't.

So like just like what Huntn1 stated. It all needs to be thrown out. :bop:


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## huntin1

If he wants to keep his tax returns private so that "think tanks" can't pick them apart, that is his right. And any other President, or citizen also has that right.

Cohen has lied under oath, nothing he says should be admissible as testimony against anyone. I'm not particularly happy with everything Trump says, and when he lies under oath then he too should face repercussions. As long as they are the same repercussions faced by Slick Willy when he lied under oath.


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## KEN W

For those of you saying the difference between Cohen lying and the Con man lying is that Cohen was under oath.....here is something the Flim Flam man should be worried about.....

Cohen claimed that he had overheard a call in which Trump's longtime political adviser Roger Stone told the then-GOP nominee in 2016 that WikiLeaks was due to dump a new trove of emails that would be damaging to Hillary Clinton.

And he said Trump knew in advance about a 2016 meeting between a Russian lawyer and his campaign team designed to deliver "dirt" on Clinton.

Since Trump previously told Mueller in sworn written answers that neither of those statements were true, he could be in legal and political jeopardy if Cohen or prosecutors can provide corroboration of Cohen's claims.


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## huntin1

If that's true then Trump should face repercussions, and I'll say it again, when he lies under oath then he too should face repercussions. As long as they are the same repercussions faced by Slick Willy when he lied under oath.

You remember:



> "It depends upon what the meaning of the word 'is' is."


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## KEN W

Yes.....as for collusion.....Cohen said there was no collusion.

As for the Trump family....the southern district of NY is going to make life miserable for them.

Where as the Mueller investigation will be more political.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...
Agreed if he lied under oath. Then that is an issue. :bop:

But again you are taking the word of a guy who perjured him self not once but twice. Since he is being brought up again from this last round of testimony.

But can they find proof or evidence of this to show Cohen isn't lying. If they can then go after the president. If they can't then it is a He said vs He said.... which how can you believe a guy who has lied multiple times under oath.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken..

You are correct. I have a feeling NYC will hammer them with Tax issues. Such as understating or over stating values. Which will end up costing them money in back taxes, interest on that money and fines.

Which again is the "organization" and his kids will face the blunt of it possibly.

But only time will tell on that as well.

But again we come back to the title of this thread... Mueller Investigation. Which was all about "collusion". Which is coming up empty at every turn. Which again should have been wrapped up a year ago and saved us tax payers thousands. Now lets not even think about the Schiff investigation which will drag out another 2 years.... I am sure it will be done right after the 2020 election. Or they will launch a new one if Trumps runs and wins again. But I bet if Trump doesn't run for president (no indication that he wont) that the Schiff investigation will be dropped. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

> Cohen claimed that he had overheard a call in which Trump's longtime political adviser Roger Stone told the then-GOP nominee in 2016 that WikiLeaks was due to dump a new trove of emails that would be damaging to Hillary Clinton.


 Nothing wrong with that, but everything points to he found out at the same time as the rest of us.

Hillary and Lanny Davis I think wrote the script for Cohen. It had Clinton language all over it. Now that they are done with Cohen he better never leave his prison cell. To use hunt1's terminology Hillary may have him suicided.


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## Plainsman

Listening to FOX. I stand corrected, evidently Cohen was under oath, and they have sent the attorney general nine purjery counts. He may spend more than three years in prison.

Rep Meadows is being interviewed and is sure Lanny Davis wrote the script for Cohen.


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## KEN W

The investigation is over......4:00 PM......March 22, 2019

It has now been turned over to the Attorney General. How much will be made public? What will it say?


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## Chuck Smith

It will be interesting what will happen next.

Let me predict a few things:

1. The media will go nuts speculation and "bomb shells" until it is released (any portion). This is both sides of the media

2. The media will go nuts when it gets release saying not enough was released or too much was released.... again both sides.

3. If what is released doesn't drive the narrative of he is guilty or cleared... the media will go nuts.. both sides.

4. If it clears him of no collusion the left will flip out and drag us through 2 more years of this until the election... and will say Mueller was in on it with Trump. Or something like Mueller wasn't qualified or didn't dig deep enough.

5. If more stuff comes out with the Dems/Hillary and the Ukraine.... the left will go silent or say.. well Trump's people did this and that. But yet trumps people are going to prison... :bop:

6. If found no collusion.... Trump will become an even bigger A-hole on twitter and all interviews. The "I told you so and Fake News" will be so bad I will want to vomit. oke:

But again this is all just speculation and waiting for the melt down on either side as of now. :bop:

edit:

Got done typing this and already have been reading on my twitter feed some liberal media "outlets" or "reporters" making excuses. 
- Like finding "no collusion" doesn't matter Trump is still guilty
- No matter what...Remember X,Y,Z of the Trump campagian is already on trial/found guilty
- No Matter what.... Trump is under investigation in NYC...

Wait for the meltdown.... No matter what this report wont be good enough for some Liberal media outlets. I am envisioning another Madow Meltdown like on election night. :rollin:


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## Plainsman

The liberals are going to loose it. Try not to get hit with shrapnel from the train wreck.


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## KEN W

Can't find to much wrong with what you are saying Chuck. The report won't satisfy either side

But if you mention Madow, you should probably include Hannity and Ingram on Fox ( Trump TV). I won't know because I don't watch either of those Trump mouth pieces.


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## speckline

$40,000,000, 675 Days
Wasted.
Not 1 person indicted for Russian Collusion.


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## speckline

BAM- HEADSHOT!
NO COLLUSION!!

For 2 years the Presidency was held hostage for no reason other than a "TANTRUM." Cost us somewhere between 25 and 40 million taxpayer dollars!!

People have had enough of the Lieing Democrats and the "colluding" fake news.

Stop the tantrum, NOW!!!!!


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## blhunter3

Hopefully this will put the collusion to bed, but the left will try to find something else to complain about.


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## KEN W

Yup......no collusion

But I would guess the House oversight committee will want to see the actual report themselves and make their own conclusions. Including having Barr and Mueller testify.


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## Plainsman

I'm sure they will waste a few more million, and spend their time chasing fairy tales rather than be about the nation's business. Hatred trumps patriotism, no pun intended. I don't know if I should be disappointed or celebrate that the democrats are digging their political grave.


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## speckline

KEN W said:


> Yup......no collusion
> 
> But I would guess the House oversight committee will want to see the actual report themselves and make their own conclusions. Including having Barr and Mueller testify.


They'll want to see the report so they, and the msm can tell us what it really says..... uke:


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## Plainsman

It was a sad time in history when we learned president Clinton was a liar. Now when with an even larger investigation we have found our president innocent. At a time when we should all celebrate that we have integrity in the Whitehouse there are those who are sad about it. Time will tell us if the lies will continue. The democrats should be careful that their lies don't lead to liberal Americans committing violence upon conservative Americans.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> I'm sure they will waste a few more million, and spend their time chasing fairy tales rather than be about the nation's business. Hatred trumps patriotism, no pun intended. I don't know if I should be disappointed or celebrate that the democrats are digging their political grave.


So you are saying that the OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE should just take the word of a Trump appointee. A 3 page summary. Wow.....I guess we all should just take Barr's summary. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. The Democrats are not going to sit with their thumbs up their butt like the Republican controlled Committee did for 2 years and do NO oversight at all. Republicans don't like it?????To bad.

They will subpoena Barr and Mueller and get the entire report, and then we should all be able to see it if we want to.

THEY ARE GOING TO DO THE JOB THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THEY SHOULD DO.!!!!! oke: oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

I agree with that they should look at the report. Or what they legally can look at or public can look at.

But the other non-sense that they are doing with the "other" investigations. Not the NY stuff of the court. But the stuff that Schiff and others just opened up a few months ago. The mueller report should be enough and the NY stuff is enough.

But Like I mentioned... No matter what nothing will be enough until he is out of office then they will just drop it like a bag of dirt. If he gets re-elected.... then they will keep dragging it out until they lose control of the house. oke:

It is also funny how the NY stuff will turn out or what will be dug up now that Avanetti is in hot water. Will they find out he didn't represent his client the best with the Non-disclosure agreement or did something shady there. That is one campaign finance thing that could blow up. But again time will tell.


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## Plainsman

> now that Avanetti is in hot water.


 Yup he tried to blackmail Nike for many millions. He's going away for a long time.



> But Like I mentioned... No matter what nothing will be enough until he is out of office then they will just drop it like a bag of dirt.


 At this point those politicians need to be retarded to think anything is there. Arrogant fools.



> If he gets re-elected.... then they will keep dragging it out until they lose control of the house.


 I don't think they are smart enough to figure that out. Every day when I think they can't get any dumber they prove me wrong. I think 2020 will put the republicans in both house of congress and the presidency.

I'm waiting for the investigation into the democrats. The whole world knows Hillary is guilty. I actually mean we know without a shadow of a doubt, not this made up crap like the democrats after Trump.


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## KEN W

Chuck.....So far you are right except for 1 thing. As of right now Pelosi says no impeachment. So unless there is something really damning in the report they won't impeach him. They won't let him look like a martyr to the public. They will save the ammo for next years election. And she rules the House.

Plainsman......."The whole world knows Clinton is guilty." Evidently not the Republican Party. They had total control over the government and the Dept of Justice for 2 YEARS And it was not brought up 1 time.What were they waiting for if she is so guilty ?....If you want to blame someone......blame your own party. If this wasn't brought up already.....it won't be brought up now. You should probably move on to something else. You are beating a dead horse. :huh:


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## Plainsman

I'm not so sure of that, investigating Hillary may be back in the cards. I do blame the republicans. They are cowards, backstabbers, and part of the swamp. Democrats are worse.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> I'm not so sure of that, investigating Hillary may be back in the cards. I do blame the republicans. They are cowards, backstabbers, and part of the swamp. Democrats are worse.


Well, maybe there is NO evidence to prosecute her. Would the Republicans really ignore evidence that is there like you say there Is? They could still bring it up in the REPUBLICAN controlled Dept. of Justice or the Senate. Not even your buddy Trump is asking for it. I haven't heard "lock Her Up" since the election 2 1/2 years ago. So he must be a coward and part of the swamp. :beer: :beer:


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## Plainsman

Ken she was running a server in her basement. Because of her position as secretary of state that alone is a felony. That's why everyone is upset with the FIB calling it simply careless. I hear Lindsey Graham is calling for an investigation. Old Hillary isn't home free yet.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> Ken she was running a server in her basement. Because of her position as secretary of state that alone is a felony. That's why everyone is upset with the FIB calling it simply careless. I hear Lindsey Graham is calling for an investigation. Old Hillary isn't home free yet.


 They sure are keeping it quiet if there is an investigation. Which I highly doubt.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ken she was running a server in her basement. Because of her position as secretary of state that alone is a felony. That's why everyone is upset with the FIB calling it simply careless. I hear Lindsey Graham is calling for an investigation. Old Hillary isn't home free yet.
> 
> 
> 
> They sure are keeping it quiet if there is an investigation. Which I highly doubt.
Click to expand...

I don't think they have one as of now, but Lindsey Graham was on FOX and he said he is asking the justice dept to open an investigation into not only Hillary, but some other democrats. Most of them knew there was no Russian collusion they just refuse a peaceful transition of power. That is terribly hypocritical since one of the questions posed to Trump was would he accept the election results. This whole fiasco is simply not accepting the election results.


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## Plainsman

https://www.breitbart.com/entertainment ... th-russia/

Do any of you consider these people responsible thinkers? Or are they simply so bias they hate with passion? Personally those that were so sure of his guilt owe Trump and the nation a public apology. Would they appreciate people being so careless with their life? If they wouldn't like that yet are so careless with the life of another it means they are extremely self centered. I guess we already know that about the Hollywierd crowd. The mistreatment of Kavanaugh makes me more aware than even before. The left is not the party of tolerance, they are the party of hate who just hides their hate behind false rhetoric.

Edit: They will continue with their political coup and refusal for peaceful transfer of power with more attempts to sway the gullible. I can here it now, the Russians got to Muhler. Muhler sent a report that says Trump is guilty, but Barr is lying. Already they are demanding to see all the papers. Are they really so stupid, or are they hopeful they can drag it out past the 2020 election and the stupid and the partisan will fall for it?


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## KEN W

No apology yet. Based on a 3 page summary made by someone in Trumps party.I want to see what it says. And that won't come out for weeks ..... :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

Not you Ken. You have more right to be angry with the Hollywierd and news media than I do. You trusted them to tell you the truth. I'm ticked even though I knew they were liars. They have always been liars and always will be. It's been a long time since these people in the media have been news. For a long time the media has been a mouthpiece for the radical ( now mainstream) left.


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## KEN W

Yeah you are correct. BUT.....there is always a but isn't there......Trump is as big a liar. Its is at the point where I don't believe ANYTHING that guy says.

How about today.....

Republican Party will be known as the health party :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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## Plainsman

I agree with you Ken we the people should see the entire investigation records. I have heard that the FISA judges that were conned with the fake dossier want prosecution. I hope the involved FBI agents involved, and all the other people involved are prosecuted. 
I sure would like to know why Hillary destroyed 33,000 emails and scrubbed her computers and phones. Destroying evidence is also a felony.

As for obstruction of justice it's nearly impossible to prove with no underlying crime, and the report said there was no collusion. Back to Hillary destroying evidence, that is obstruction of evidence.


----------



## Chuck Smith

The media is already saying things like.... TRUMP got to Mueller, Barr's summary is BIASED, BARR got to Mueller, We need to hear it from Muellers mouth, Mueller didn't do his job.... etc. It is sad that many cant take the news or the out come.

What also gets me and this is both sides.... Trump is claiming a "HUGE" victory... well we found out he had shady guys around him breaking tax laws. The left is saying trump shouldn't be claiming victory because of what I said above and they still are trying to point to collusion. Both sides should just be shutting up because this whole thing is a black eye on the USA.

Ken,

I agree the report needs to be released... what can be released. That is why it will take a week or two to release the report. There could be some sensitive issues that don't need to be made public...ie: secrets.


----------



## KEN W

Those 30,000 emails......I have always wondered why the prosecution can just have them. Evidently they aren't private. It makes you wonder if you should even send any to anyone. If they are mine......why can't I erase them? They should be private for me only and up to me what I do with them. Unless a judge issues a warrant. But even then if I erased them how can I breaking the law?


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## Plainsman

Ken as secretary of state you would be required to use a gov secure server and computer for all official communication. It is dpelled out in gov regulations. Of the emails that were recovered not only were many official communication, but a few dozen we highly classified. So what were the other 33,000. There is no way to know, but would you not expect something bad when hard drives are wiped, cell phones are pounded to dust with hammers, and there was zero security on her server. A server with no security and playing stupid looks like a good way to share national security with an enemy country.


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## KEN W

Still doesn't answer my question.....if they were her emails......why can't she do whatever she wants with them. Can't you erase yours? Why shouldn't I be able to erase mine if I want to?


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## Chuck Smith

> Still doesn't answer my question.....if they were her emails......why can't she do whatever she wants with them. Can't you erase yours? Why shouldn't I be able to erase mine if I want to?


Ken...

I think the issue is the same with what was going on with the whole "Trump collusion" investigation.... those emails even though might be nothing in them. She worked for the USA government and when you sign that contract I am sure there is language about emails and texts. Just like the Mueller team was looking into stuff on Trump Jr. and his family for using personal email stuff for gov. business.

I think that is the issue. Then when they "disappear" plus the other stuff.... make people want to know what was in them. IE: Just like the Mueller report. oke:


----------



## KEN W

OK....still, why should it be against the law to erase your private emails or throw your regular mail in the garbage. After all.....it belongs to me. I should be able to to what I want with them.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Again...

I am sure since she signed a contract to work for the US gov. She cant just "delete" emails, even personal ones. Even if she as just sharing a recipe with 30,000 different people.... she just cant "delete" them. Because what if one of those people was a "Russian national" who she shared that recipe with oke: ... That is the issue and why they can't "just delete" them.

Also now I love how the media is going crazy over "speculation" if trump will pardon anyone. :rollin:


----------



## KEN W

So basically you and I can delete them unless we signed a contract ? It would be really dumb for her to delete them if she signed a contract. So the government cannot look at my emails unless they have a subpoena. Same with my phone then. And they can't find me by using my phone. I see this all the time on TV......using your phone to find you.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken....

You are correct. Unless court ordered or if they got a "warrant" they cant look into our personal stuff....ie: FISA.

Most of the people they "find" with the phone app and what not is because those people are "sharing" their locations freely and didn't turn that off on their phone. Or... someone (parent, guardian, etc) is looking for them and either give permission to access that or a warrant is issued.

But on your phone/apps when you check the box without reading lots of times it asks permission to access your locations and what not. ie: how does your phone know how long it takes you to get to work with traffic delays, how do they know a Jimmy John's is just around the corner from you, etc.


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## blhunter3

The NSA is already reading your emails, text messages, and listening to your phone calls.


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## KEN W

Yeah probably...... :shake: :shake:


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> So basically you and I can delete them unless we signed a contract ? It would be really dumb for her to delete them if she signed a contract. So the government cannot look at my emails unless they have a subpoena. Same with my phone then. And they can't find me by using my phone. I see this all the time on TV......using your phone to find you.


They don't need to sign a contract. When I went to work for the gov I had to be fingerprinted. When you take a position in Washington you have a ton of regulations to read through. Simply accepting the job makes you subject to regulations. Way back in the beginning of this country you needed copies of letters you sent to anyone. Today it's illegal for you to not use a gov secure computer for work. She was secretary of state and regulations are you do not use private computers. Obama said he knew nothing about her private server, yet they found emails from him on it. The other thing it's illegal for her to delete any content on devices she used while she was secretary of state. Once she sends or gets and email from anyone it is not hers, it belongs to the gov.


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## KEN W

Isn't this the same thing?????

President Trump's daughter, and Mr. Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, told the committee late last year that in addition to a private email account, Mr. Kushner uses an unofficial encrypted messaging service, WhatsApp, for official White House business, including with foreign contacts.

Mr. Cummings said the lawyer, Abbe Lowell, also told lawmakers that Ms. Trump did not preserve some emails sent to her private account if she did not reply to them.


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## Plainsman

I never kept up with that Ken because I thought it was just another lie. If it was true remember Kushner never got security access. Don't really know Ken so I shouldn't say more until I do.


----------



## Plainsman

Lindsey Graham is the head of the Senate judiciary committee. He is on FOX now and saying they are calling for multiple investigations. They will investigate the FBI and investigate how they handled the investigation of Hillary. James Comey is toast.


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## huntin1

And in response, from the left.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> President Trump's daughter, and Mr. Kushner, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, told the committee late last year that in addition to a private email account, Mr. Kushner uses an unofficial encrypted messaging service, WhatsApp, for official White House business, including with foreign contacts.
> 
> Mr. Cummings said the lawyer, Abbe Lowell, also told lawmakers that Ms. Trump did not preserve some emails sent to her private account if she did not reply to them.


Ken... you are correct it is kind of the same thing. But like mentioned Kushner didn't have clearance compared to Hillary. That is the only difference and might be the only thing that will save Kushner... IMHO.

But I agree that both need to be looking into as well. Which I think Mueller did look into it. Otherwise there would have been charges or something. IE: lying about contact with "foreign" agents, not disclosing contact with said agents, etc. Which is what Mueller got lots of people on in his case against Trump and his associates.

The one thing that Hillary and many did that will be the issue is the FISA warrant and the Dossier. those will be front and center. Because if false info or politically driven individuals and false info was passed along with out confirmations of said info to do this whole investigation is a crime. Which people get sued for.... not so much locked up... but sued. The only locked up part is if it had doc's forged, obstruction of justice, etc. But it will be interesting what happens moving forward.

I do remember way at the beginning of this I said that the Dem's might regret opening up this case and might bite them on the behind... well we will see if it does. Personally I hope (but wont happen) is that people will take the high road and just say we knew it was false and now we are cleared. Lets move this country forward. But I don't think that will happen... too much bad blood and stuff was thrown around by all to let this go. If it didn't take 2 years to wrap up and if people would stop hammering on it and saying the report now is false/falsified and not credible... (CNN, MSNBC, Schiff, etc.) Then it might not be as much of a feeling of needing revenge. But 2 years, all the BS show boating, all the BS politicking, all the BS in general.... people want heads to roll. :bop:

Also the "show boating" or "dog and pony show" is still going on. Last night Booker did a townhall meeting on CNN and collusion questions were still asked and he still believes there was collusion. WHAT???? the investigation that many on the left said would prove without a doubt of collusion and will impeach and put Trump in prison&#8230;. did the opposite. Now that report is false and what ever other excuses you are hearing on the left right now. The best anyone of these people could do is come out and apologize. Or say... I was wrong or we got bad intel. It isn't a complete apology but would show that they were "wrong". But again... we know that wont happen because of the hatred towards the president is so deep and people have blinders on.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Here is a question people have to ask themselves....

Schiff wants the whole Mueller report made public un-redacted. But he wont make the FISA warrant declassified and out to the public. So why is that??? Did someone or an agency do something illegal??? or we can keep going with tin foil hat theory's but.... you have to ask yourself.... WHY? If one is un-redacted and made public.... so should the other one. Because they do go hand in hand.


----------



## Chuck Smith

The liberal media.... (CNN) is going nuts about the whole report thing.

Last night was watching Don Lemon and some of the stuff spewed is crazy. Here are a couple of the things they talked about.

1. The release of the report.
- One guy was over talking anyone else and interrupting everyone. But was going off on how he doesn't think the report will be released. Even Don stated that Barr said he will release the report once he has time to go thru it. The guy stated do you believe Barr. WHAT??? This guy said he plans on releasing when he is able to release. You have to take him at his word until he doesn't do it.

- Same guy was going off on how can a summary of 101 words do justice to over 300 pages. Well there are still pending court cases out there. So you have to be careful on what you release. Otherwise you could have bias (either way) in a court case. They don't give out all the evidence in murder trials until after the trial. There are pending cases against Trump in NYC and also against people from this report.

- Same guy kept going off on how can this report of 300 pages take weeks when the Clinton report with more pages was made public in two days of completion. Well look at above. Again there are pending cases out there that you cant give out info. Clintons was more cut and dry on it. Only legal issues was obstruction and perjury.

But this guy was going off on anyone who was making these points. Some people who want trump burned at the stake were making the points I talked about. Don Lemon was agreeing with the points I talked about.

2. Don lemon was going off on how Trump "swooped" in to save the special Olympics. He said he told De Voss to do the cuts so he can swoop in and be the hero. Well one panel member said... Trump doesn't know completely what is every nook and cranny of the budget. This person was on the Obama team. She stated that I don't think trump did this to look like the "hero"...but he did take the opportunity to be the "hero". Which I don't doubt one bit. But it was funny how this is now news. It should be just Trump fixed a mistake. Not some conspiracy theory. But we can say that on all media.

Just some stuff I found funny and honestly disgusting that people cant just think and it makes sense. Common sense seems has been lost on many people.


----------



## Chuck Smith

And look what was just released from Barr....

1. He stated that his initial letter was just a quick regview on talking points. 
2. Also he will have a full release by Mid April if not sooner. 
3. The mueller team is helping him with the report and what can/cant be released.
4. The WH wont get a "preview".
5. Barr said he would testify

So the kicking and screaming by the left should and needs to stop. But I am sure they will find another thing to go off on. I have read on twitter people now saying Mueller/Barr are going to cover up stuff for trump.... uke:


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## Plainsman

Lets look at the truth. The truth is this should not be called the Mueller investigation it should be called the democrat attempted coup. The democrats know what they are saying is a lie. The truth is they can not accept the election. Two reasons and neither are really so much as hating trump, but number one is they are not in power and number two is they have no respect for the constitution. They are so arrogant that although socialism fails everywhere they think they can create a socialist utopia if they are in charge. Please don't anyone tell me Sweden is Socialist. The head of Sweden already addressed that and said although they have a lot of government assistance the United States is more socialist than Sweden.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> I agree with you Ken we the people should see the entire investigation records. I have heard that the FISA judges that were conned with the fake dossier want prosecution. I hope the involved FBI agents involved, and all the other people involved are prosecuted.


Democrats will subpoena full report. Nothing blacked out. Why would ANYONE just accept a 3 page summary of a 400 page report? :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Sorry Plainsman.....Its still the Mueller Report.Not the Democrat report. And Pelosi has said more than once she is not looking at impeachment. All depends on what is in the report. oke: oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken....

Democrats will kick and scream even after getting the full report if it doesn't push the agenda of Trump = Evil.

I don't think they will ever get the full report... period.

There is on going litigation. There is classified info in it. There are "tactics" in it which they don't want to give away. (or something like that I read in a different article). Among other things.

But they will kick and scream no matter what. It is what our political spectrum has come down to these days. :eyeroll:

Edit:

Do you think they want the "whole" report because then they can leak stuff out???? Just something to think about.


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## KEN W

Don't know.....how the committees decide what to make public. But they need to see it. Republicans would be screaming if the president was a Democrat and only a largely redacted report came to them.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-w ... rt-in-full

From an article today talking about how the Dem's were upset when Nunes released the FISA stuff....

From Pelosi back in Feb:
[quote'] "President Trump has surrendered his constitutional responsibility as Commander-in-Chief by releasing highly classified and distorted intelligence," Pelosi said in a statement on Feb. 2, 2018. "By not protecting intelligence sources and methods, he just sent his friend Putin a bouquet.[/quote]

From Schiff back in feb:


> Following the release of the report, Schiff, who was the ranking member of the committee at the time, joined with Democrats on the committee to declare the GOP memo "risks exposure of sensitive sources and methods for no legitimate purpose." Among the House Intelligence Committee Democrats who signed onto that statement was Rep. Eric Swalwell, D-Calif.


So back in Feb we have these statements that were endorsed and reguritated by many of the ones screaming now.



> "Judiciary Democrats have escalated from setting arbitrary deadlines to demanding unredacted material that Congress does not, *in truth, require and that the law does not allow to be shared outside the Justice Department.* It's unfortunate that a body meant to uphold the law has grown so desperate that it's patently misrepresenting the law, even as the attorney general has already demonstrated transparency above and beyond what is required."


Ken.... I will totally agree with you if the shoe was on the other foot it would be played out as it is now. The Dem's screaming witch hunt for 2 years.... the dem's screaming "no collusion", etc. Plus the Republicans wanting info and saying collusion. It is the sad state of our politics in this country.


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## KEN W

Chuck......correct. And who is at fault?????

The far right of the Republican Party and the far left of the Democratic Party. When the extremes of both parties are in control,it is "my way or the highway." No compromise. That's why I really would like to see a moderate Democrat take on far right Trump in 2020.

We need to get away from the fringes of both parties. The worst would be Sanders or Warren taking on Trump. The winner would be a loser for 4 more years for the country. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## north1

Just my opinion, but Trump is not far right. The far right has little control of the Republican Party. Once in awhile they are an antagonist in specific issues that they can make some headlines on though. Trump started to run as an independent a while back until David Duke entered the party then he promptly left the party(understandably) and considered aligning with democrats. I really think he has as much ire for some republicans(far right and rhino) as he does with democrats(progressives and faux democrats). That is part of his appeal in my estimation. It certainly is one of the reasons I voted for him.


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## Plainsman

As far as the political spectrum the liberals have been very good at deceiving the American people. There are very few far right republicans. Today most republicans are left. The democrats are mostly radical left. The average Republican today is comparative to a 1960s Democrat. The average Democrat today is comparable to Castro and the hatred is getting them on the verge of violence. Even friends and relatives are growing unexplainable radical. The next step will be going from thinking like AOC to willing to kill like Marx. They as re not sane.


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## KEN W

Republicans are on the left?????

All of my Dem friends are radical left?????? I'm an average Democrat.......Sorry but I am not like Castro!!!!

Where are you getting that stuff????

From Trump TV??


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Republicans are on the left?????
> 
> All of my Dem friends are radical left?????? I'm an average Democrat.......Sorry but I am not like Castro!!!!
> 
> Where are you getting that stuff????
> 
> From Trump TV??


I am getting it from watching the change come over this nation since the 1950s. I was watching Kennedy when he said "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country". Today democrats have turned that 180 degrees.
Yes half of the republicans are at minimum partial socialist. Half the democrats are socialist and those like AOC are not socialist they are full fledged communist
Anyone who wants the gov to rob their perceived rich for their benefit is extreme left. That's the way Obama thought and he was destroying the nation.
I always seem Trump as a liberal, but he has been a pleasant surprise. The liberals seem a chance for dictatorship and socialist utopia. With Trump their socialist dream fell apart and they hate him with passion. They have already begin shooting people with a Republican playing baseball. They would like more restrictive gun laws because they want us disarmed. They hate the second amendment for the very reason it was created.


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## KEN W

I guess we see the country in totally different eyes. Doesn't make you right or me wrong or me right and you wrong.......just different.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

Trump is getting the "alt right" label from the media. Name one thing that he has done that is "racist"??? He condemned the acts in Charlesville. He is calling GANG MEMBERS as ANIMALS. People will say he is racist against "Mexican's or Brown" people.... nope. He just wants control at the southern border. His ban on Muslim countries was to combat ISIS and terrorism. Which many of those countries were the same one's Obama did... yet Trump does it he must be racist. Same goes for separation of kids and parents at the border... which we know Obama did as well. But Trump is racist for it. We can talk about the "S-hole" country quote... well look at the countries he was talking about... civil wars, poor infra structure, poor people, the health of the people, etc. They are "s-holes" and you wouldn't want to live there. Granted not the right words to say, but that is trump he isn't PC.

So the "alt right" image of Trump has been drummed up by the media. that is what is sad and people are falling right in place thinking he is that extreme. He is extreme in the way he isn't PC and says what he thinks and will fly off the handle. that is how he is "alt right". Hell the media wants to make anyone who owns guns is alt right. :bop:


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## KEN W

Trump.......Russia probe was ILLEGAL and TREASONOUS..... :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Trump.......again that the Republican Party is the party of Health Care. One of Washington's best kept secrets. But not until 2020.Republicans evidently need at least 4 plus years to even come up with a plan... :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Mueller exonerates Trump.Republicans.......lets redact all 400 pages of the report. Afterall the Democrats MIGHT find something in there.The 3 page summary is good enough for them... :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Trump......close the border with Mexico. Even REPUBLICAN Senate majority leader Mc'Connel says it would be catastrophic. :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

This guy tweets some really good jokes.What a disaster.
:beer: :beer: :beer:


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## north1

KEN W said:


> Trump.......Russia probe was ILLEGAL and TREASONOUS..... :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
> 
> Trump.......again that the Republican Party is the party of Health Care. One of Washington's best kept secrets. But not until 2020.Republicans evidently need at least 4 plus years to even come up with a plan... :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
> 
> Mueller exonerates Trump.Republicans.......lets redact all 400 pages of the report. Afterall the Democrats MIGHT find something in there.The 3 page summary is good enough for them... :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
> 
> Trump......close the border with Mexico. Even REPUBLICAN Senate majority leader Mc'Connel says it would be catastrophic. :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:
> 
> This guy tweets some really good jokes.What a disaster.
> :beer: :beer: :beer:


#1. He is 100% correct. It was treasonous. The opposing party paid for a fake dossier, government agencies altered it, then submitted the lies to a FISA court. Then said agencies surveiled public and private citizens on the basis of the lies. All the while leaking the lies to media outlets who ran with them to demean a duelly elected president and overturn an election. That is a definition of treason.

#2. He is trying his best to get republican leaders to fix some of the apparent and inherant problems with Obamacare. He wants it to include pre-existing conditions and some of the more popular items currently in it. They don't want to touch it with a ten foot pole for fear they will own the whole thing. Repubs are spineless. He isn't.

#3. Every intelligence report that has or ever will come out has redactions. They did under Clinton, Bush, Obama and they will under trump. Republicans don't redact them, intelligence agencies do. Trump has called for them to be complete several times.

#4. Trump, again, is trying to move the narrative and get SOMETHING done with the border by throwing closing it down out there. He is hoping it will prod the repubs to do something or anything because he knows the democrats are willing to turn the country into a Venezuela just for votes.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

You are falling for all the media BS and "talking points". :eyeroll:

Oh I agree 100% that he is an idiot when it comes to his twitter account and it still amazes me that someone in business talks in public the way he does. Yet that is what got him elected. He is playing the persona of what he was on his TV show.

BTW... how long did it take the Dem's to come up with a plan for healthcare.... Oh wait until Ted Kennedy died and they pushed it thru as a "feel good" measure because he was pushing for it his whole career. Plus they had complete control over the house/senate/oval office... Let not forget about that. :beer:

Do we need to keep bringing up about the redactions... #1 Ongoing court cases. and if any of the info in the report is apart of other investigations. It cant be made public. And you know the report will get leaked. It has been proven everything gets leaked. So that would jeapordize the ongoing cases. Trump would be smart to release the whole report so that will happen. He can claim mistrials in everything. :bop: Also what do they need to find in the report? Doesn't Schiff say he has enough evidence to show collusion? But yet he didn't share it with the Special Council... :rollin:

But it will be interesting and fun to watch all the huffing and puffing right now of the Dem's.... getting the sopena's and what not.

I never wanted to believe the BS that this was all done because Hillary lost the election. But everyday it looks more and more and more like that is why. Some people just cant accept this and will kick and scream until his first term is up. But they don't understand it is pushing him right into the office for the second term. :thumb: Because right now it looks like the most serious contender is Bernie. Which in itself is scary as hell. But he is getting a bigger push for all of this "free" stuff. Plus people are ****** that Hillary stole/cheated her way to the nod last time.... lets not forget that. :bop:


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## Plainsman

The democrats may regret getting the entire report. It could very likely have information that will result in prison sentences for some democrats. Hillary for example should be prosecuted.
I received two new knees yesterday and am combating my low blood pressure by watching FOX.


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## north1

Plainsman said:


> The democrats may regret getting the entire report. It could very likely have information that will result in prison sentences for some democrats. Hillary for example should be prosecuted.
> I received two new knees yesterday and am combating my low blood pressure by watching FOX.


Weird. I just had my gall bladder removed on Monday and am watching Fox also. Made sure I took my blood pressure pill this morning but still may be "pushing" it by watching all this drivel.

Hope you heal quickly with no problems and your rehab goes smoothly. Take it easy!!! A neighbor who is a rancher just had a double knee replacement and he made mistake of checking cows, tripped over frozen cow poop and tore a ligament in his knee. He is now looking at a substantially longer recoup schedule. When we get older sometimes our stubbornness comes back to haunt us. Good luck and God Speed!!!


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## Chuck Smith

Back to the talking point of "TRUMP = RACIST"....

He just signed a bill that would help with the "minorities" in prison inequity or "prison reform". It is something Obama pledged to do and never got done in 8 years. :bop: But I guess Trump is racist for doing this or was this even reported on the networks of CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc???? :shake:

Edit:

Another falsehood being spread or talked about by liberal media. I also can see why when he calls them "fake news".... but they say Trump is against the 1st add.... well what did he sign an executive order the other day.... To help people speak and not get banned at colleges and universities. Is that saying he is against freedom of speech???

Again... how much coverage on ANY network did this get. Not even Fox said too much about this. :eyeroll:


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> The democrats may regret getting the entire report. It could very likely have information that will result in prison sentences for some democrats. Hillary for example should be prosecuted.
> I received two new knees yesterday and am combating my low blood pressure by watching FOX.


Nope.....Prison sentences for Trump Jr. and Kushner more likely. And if not in the report, then from the southern district of New York. Already Republicans going to or in jail from the report. More to come. oke: oke:

Been 2 years since I had a knee replacement. I'm still struggling with scar tissue. Hope yours goes better. You are pretty much an invalid. Can't imagine getting both knees at the same time. :eyeroll: Oh.....And don't get hooked on the Oxy or whatever pain killer they have you on.


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## KEN W

Guess what....some of the Mueller investigators are now saying the evidence against Trump is stronger than Barr has indicated. Now why is that not surprising when Barr is a Trump political appointee? That's why we need to see more that a 3 page summary of 400 pages. oke: oke:

Also the House committees have subpoenaed Trump's tax returns. So we can see what this guy is hiding. :beer:


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## Chuck Smith

That NYT article is a joke.

It is someone who is anonymous heard from a source with the investigators who made comments about something but wont specify what exactly they are upset about.

So that is like I heard from a friend who heard from a friend who heard from a friends mom that they are made about what coach said after the game. When asked what coach said did coach actually say made them mad... they say... I don't know.

But what I did read is that they are more up set about his "conclusion" of the obstruction issue. Which again Mueller left up in the air too. So again.... that article is a joke and just someone blowing steam. It never came out that they thought collusion or obstruction could be prosecuted. It has come out they are upset that he said it so directly that it was an open and shut case. They think there is some evidence but yet not enough to prosecute. So again.... Not much as of now. :eyeroll:

But again you are listening way too much to Maddow oke: I think.... LOL



> Also the House committees have subpoenaed Trump's tax returns. So we can see what this guy is hiding. :beer:


Will this be like when Maddow revealed that Trump paid taxes??? :rollin: oke:

I already can tell you what they will find. He inflated or undervalued properties to help him in all of his bankruptcy filings through out his career. Which depends on what he did could be in violation of some laws. It will also show he pushed forward losses to help lesson the tax burden from year to year. So this could be interesting what comes of this. But will this also blow up in the Dem's faces.... because should we start looking into Taxes of all elected officials?


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## KEN W

Chuck....I never watch Maddow. She is as bad as Hannity and Ingram on Trump Tv. But I just reported that some investigators don't agree with Barr. Barr basically didn't say anything in his 3 page summary out of 400 pages except "no collusion." I can see where there are different opinions about what is in there. We need to see it ourselves. And I'm guessing everyone will have a different opinion.

Also why is Trump hiding his returns? we don't have to see returns from every politician, although I would guess there are probably some not telling the truth on them. But...&#8230;.when Tiny was campaigning.....he said he would make them public. Another lie.


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## north1

Who were Eric Holder and Loretta Lynch? Where they Obama appointees? Should I disregard everything that they espouse because of that? Why has Holder came out and stated that everything can't and shouldn't be released?


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## Chuck Smith

I just had to tease you about maddow&#8230;.. :beer: But you are correct about Hannity... just as bad if not sometimes worse.

But what the NYT article and one you referenced with the Mueller people. They didn't say they disagree with the out come. But more on how the AG said it was a cut and dry case. They say or someone is saying... there is some stuff in the report that points to trump... but not enough to convict or even bring up charges. So it is just opinion. Plus if you worked on something for 2 years and put time and effort into the report and it just gets white washed.... you would be up set too. I am sure some of these people were banking on this case to help further careers. It is like if someone spent all sorts of time doing a report or plans for a project... then it gets scrapped or the company says...we are shelfing the project. Some people will be miffed.


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## KEN W

So the question now is......can the House committee subpoena Mueller and his 18 investigators to get their opinion about what is in there and how it has been interpreted? In other words with no redactions. How many copies are there and where are they all?

Can Mueller show up with a truck load of copies and give one to every representative?


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## Chuck Smith

Are you sure that is something that is wanted?

Because it has come out that some of the info used in court cases to sway public opinion from the mueller team was "snippets" and take out of complete context. Especially with Papadopolus&#8230;

Then with FBI and the FISA reports and what not. More and more stuff is coming out about abuses in the FBi during this whole thing. Those will be brought to light.

Again... pulling at this thread could be something nobody wants.

Let the report stand by itself. People thought Mueller was going to burry trump... now that it didn't happen. So something must be wrong. IMHO he did his job (it took too long). I would even be saying the same thing if it found Trump was 100% guilty. He did his job. Now that the outcome isn't what the Media and other elected officials wanted. There must be a conspiracy or something. Which I still don't understand why Schiff keeps spouting off. If he has the evidence... produce it!

This was all a dog and pony show that back fired. Now people are trying to save face. Instead we should be moving forward. You still don't see anyone on the left giving Trump any credit for jobs, having china producing less fentanyl, working on trade deals still with China (things are getting closer), the whole prison reform, the freedom of speech on campus (which most conservatives were getting blocked from speaking...ie Ben Shaprio), etc. They don't want to think that a blow hard, womanizer, non PC, business man is doing some good things. They don't want to believe the guy who made millions off of saying "YOURE FIRED" actually had good ideas and is doing some good.


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## KEN W

The only one who says it didn't happen is Barr......How do we know he is telling us everything. He is a political appointee. Should we just take his word for everything? Or let the House committee see what is there.

Sessions was fired because he wouldn't protect Trump.

Comey was fired because he wouldn't protect Trump.

Now we have another Trump appointee who is said by some to be protecting Trump.

We need to see the report. oke: oke:

This battle will continue till the next election.


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## speckline

I don't see what the issue is with the report. The AG said he is going to release it, Trump wants it released. He has a responsibility according to the LAW to redact sensitive information in accordance with the law.

Sessions was fired because he was inept and di not do his job.

Comey was fired because he did illegal things in the FBI (ie leaked information). He dismissed the Clinton crimes after being bought off by Bill and the tarmac meeting. He did not deserve to be the head of the FBI with those credentials! Oh by the way, the dems wanted his head on a platter for biitch slapping Killary for her inept actions with her server.

Bahr is universally given accolades for his service as AG historically. No better a choice.

For the last two-plus years, we heard the dems saying Mueller was going to indict Trump on collusion. Just wait 
then, when he didn't, the dems are now saying just wait for the full report. Oh by the way, the Attorney General of the United States of America, review the full report and provided the cliff notes version of NO COLLUSION!!

The report will come out, and the dems will still cry like the babies they have become


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## KEN W

That's Trump's appointee saying NO COLLUSION......I want to have OTHERS look at it and say that. How do you know that what he is saying is correct. Sorry but I and others just aren't ready to accept the Gospel according to the Trump administration. Not after seeing so MANY of his buddies arrested for lying. Seems to run in the family at 1600. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## KEN W

Muellers team prepared THEIR OWN summaries for the report. Not included in Barr's report. Summaries were witten with a minimum amount of redactions.

Not surprising since the report came from Trump's political appointment.


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## Plainsman

Ken you do realize that it's against the law for the AT to turn over the entire report right? The AT's responsibility is to enforce the laws not break them. The democrats know this, but they will say they are hiding something.


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## KEN W

Plainsman, no it isn't......here are the regulations drafted in 1999.......

"Democratic lawmakers are demanding to see Mueller's findings in his own words-rather than summarized in the memo Barr wrote to Congress last weekend. There is nothing in the special-counsel regulations that prevents the report from being made public, let alone anything that would prevent it from being provided to Congress, according to Neal Katyal, the former acting solicitor general who helped draft the regulations in 1999. "The regulations set a floor, not a ceiling, on the amount of transparency."

How are the knees? using a walker?


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## Plainsman

We have conflicting information. I guess we have some searching to do.

Knees are suckers so far. About the size of basketballs right now. They tell me the third day after surgery is the worst so today should be better.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

It has come out that each page of the report.... even the summaries. Has on it something along these lines: "information on this page may contain grand jury information". Which means it cant be released with out a judges permission or redactions. So Barr is doing his job.

Again the NYT and NYP articles state that the "people" *****ing about the summary are not saying what he said is wrong. They are saying he shouldn't have "cliff noted" it. So yeah.... again no info to implicate or exonerate on obstruction charges. Just what we all have known and what Barr has said.

You are correct this will go on until the election. The Dems will keep finding or blaming something until then. Then if Trump wins it will be 4 more years of this BS.

Again... I think this smoke screen is all because of the attention the border is getting. Even ex-Obama people are screaming something needs to be done. It is funny how "findings" or "bombshells" always came out when some other pressing issue was happening or something positive that the president did or was trying to do... ie: summits, meetings, bills passing, jobs numbers, etc. Always a new "bombshell"... or "What ifs" come to light in the media. uke:

So last night I was watching some of Maddow.... I do it for a laugh. But she was going off on and actually explained what I said above about the grand jury stuff needing a federal judge's order or redactions. But the funny thing was she was going off on how "Mueller" is helping with the redactions. In her condescending voice and smirk she stated why would they redact their own report since they made it to be released to the public.... well they didn't make it for the public... they made it to be viewed by the AG. Otherwise why would the pages have the "may contain grand jury info" on every page. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Remember when I said this whole Mueller thing is a rabbit hole we don't want to go down...

Look at it now...

Barr saying there was spying on Trump in 2016.... but wants to make sure it was done correctly... ie: they took the proper channels.

Remember Clapper told or testified that "they were not spying on the Trump or his camp". He also stated that if there was a "FISA warrant or application he would have known about it". hmmmmm&#8230;.. We know there was a FISA and why didn't or why did he say there wasn't one????

Another quote from Comey, "I have been authorized by the Dept. Of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counter intelligence mission, is investigating the Russian goverment's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election and
*THAT INCLUDES INVESTIGATING THE NATURE OF ANY LINKS BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS ASSOCIATED WITH THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN AND THE RUSSIAN GOVERMENT *and whether there was any coordination between the *CAMPAIGN* and Russia's efforts..."

Barr wants to make sure they went thru the proper channels in doing this "spying". Which if they did it is a nothing burger.

But.... This shows you how slanted most media is....

Liberal media and Elected officials are all up in arms asking for "proof".... yet they had none with collusion. Yet we all know that phones were tapped, conversations recorded, FISA applications and warrants used, informants used to get info out of the Trump camp. Yet now they are yelling and screaming about "spying". Which all of the above was done and is considered "spying". They also claim for proof.... wow... isn't that proof or things they were saying was what would bring down Trump. :eyeroll:

There is going to be an implosion happening very shortly! Plus did anyone watch them try and label a black woman as a Nazi or "White Nationalist"... and how that completely backfired. Showed how liberals are using media as "scare tactics" on minorities.... Which is exactly what she was talking about... they tried to use on her during her testimony. :rollin: oke: Then when Nadler was caught lying or "not listening" and using "intimidation" to shut her up. After she explained he wasn't listening or had selective hearing. He just shrugged because he knew he was caught. :rollin: :rock:


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## Plainsman

Barr will investigate further and I think based on the Mueller report. I have said this will come back to bite them. It will hurt them in 2020. Hillary may escape, but I think at least three FBI people are in deep trouble. Trumps approval has already exceeded Obama at the same time in their term, but I think if they can finish this investigation before the 2020 election Trump will take the presidency again and we will get the house back.
Most of the democrats are socialist, but they have been hiding it for years. Now A O Cortez is openly socialist and that has encouraged others to come out of the closet. That will also help us in 2020.


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## Plainsman

As I predicted the Mueller investigation is taking a new turn.


> Top Obama insider arrested today!? (SPYGATE!)





> Former Obama administration White House counsel Greg Craig expects to be charged in a foreign lobbying investigation spun off from Mueller's probe, his lawyers said. The Wall Street Journal reported that his indictment and arrest may come as soon as Thursday.


Guess what gov Craig was illegally working for. Yup Russia. You can't make this crap up.


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## KEN W

You are right......that's why all those Trump people have been indicted, some pleading guilty, some convicted. Can't make that stuff up. I would expect more Democrats to be indicted. That's why the Mueller investigation was worth every penny. It just seems like a lot because it was in the public's view for 2 years and counting.


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## Chuck Smith

> That's why the Mueller investigation was worth every penny.


This will be true if they find that abuses happened in the FBI and DOJ with getting warrants and what not. It will show that corruption was running rampant in those departments. If the people followed proper channels to get everything it will be a waste of time and $$$ unless they go after the Dem's with ties to the Ukraine. Because the Ukraine government wants to give us evidence of Dem's doing the exact same thing many on the Trump team got pinched for.....ie: Not registering as agents and what not. I hate to say it... it is time for a "witch hunt" on the left. This is exactly what it will be is a "witch hunt"..... because they will try and go after anyone and everyone and smear some names along the way. Which will take time and $$$ that could be used elsewhere or not wasted... IMHO.


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## KEN W

Interesting......the report comes out when Congress is out of Washington. On a holiday weekend.

Also at 8:30 Eastern time instead of later in the day. So no one has seen it and can make immediate comments on it.

White house announces day and time instead of the Justice Dept. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

I have been watching it on TV. Yawn


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## Chuck Smith

I watched some of it over lunch...

I watched Fox and MSNBC.... OMG two polar opposite reactions. But is funny to watch them both.

I like how they said there is 10 times that Trump was doing stuff.... but not enough to bring up obstruction charges. This is what the Dem's will hang onto. Was he right and wrong in the stuff... not sure as of now. But he was in the mix.

The other thing that MSNBC was going off on was that some stuff got deleted by the "trump" team or people associated with trump. OK..... what about Hillary and broken/smashed phones and servers.... LOL Like I said some of it is comical..... ON BOTH networks.

Fox was down playing the 10 things. Which again I didn't get much details on what those 10 things were. But it was comical with Fox making it sound like it is nothing. It will hurt Trump even if it was nothing. It will hurt him more politically than anything criminally. It is a black eye and he can't say "lock her up" because some people around him did the same thing with 
smashing phones.

Edit:

Just read a quote from Ben Shapiro off of twitter. It basically says this "The Trump team was involved in embarrassing and morally questionable behavior not criminal. So to cover up that behavior he did more embarrassing and questionably moral stuff". Which to be honest is Trumps MO his whole life. Look at all of his "scandals". Pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Which again isn't a good look or a thing a president should be involved in. This could sink his 2020 campaign.

But this will be interesting 10+ days of each side going at each other. It will be very very sad. :bop:


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