# Food for my dog



## clu__82

I have a 7-month-old black lab that is weighing approximately 65-68 lbs. He is in good shape and has a very lean body type. I was wondering with all of the dog foods out there what type and brands are people using? He will be a hunting dog come fall. The local pet store said that Purina is not so good and that is what we were feeding him for the previous 3-5 months. We currently have switched to Diamond and CHicken Soup for the Dog lovers soul. Sooooo what do you suggest and why? what is the benefits that you have seen since the switch or through experience. Since being on these foods he hardly sheds a hair and his stools are much smaller.......

thanks again

clu__82


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## always_outdoors

First question is, are you feeding a puppy food that is labeled for large breed puppy?

I feed Purina One with both my yellow lab and my springer/brittany cross. I move to Purina Pro Plan during the hunting season.

Those two foods are the only foods my dogs have seen (maybe a bone here or there) and their coats are top notch clean along with small stools.

Permance wise my dogs see 2-5 miles daily with longer runs on the weekends. I am extremely happy with both of those Purina dog foods.

I will admit that I tried saving money one time and went to a lower grad Purina dog food and paid for it dearly...

It kind of seems you get what you pay for in terms of dog food.


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## Bobm

get in the pro club and use the coupons


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## AdamFisk

What do you guys think of Nutri Source? That is what my pup gets. The kennel where I got him from says it is pretty good.


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## fishless

I been feeding Nutrisource for well over a year. My dogs do very well on it. In the past Ive fed Pro Plan, Diamond for years untill they had some problems with there food a while back, and Black Gold. Of them all I like Nutrisource the best. It is the only food to keep weight on my GSP with out feeding alot. My Chessie looks great and my wifes Lab also does real well on it. And the best part is they deliver it to my door, I dont waste time or gas running after dog food.


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## brianb

There are tons of good foods out there. Not all will work well for your dog.

I just tried to switch my chessie to Exclusive which I think is an excellent food that is very reasonably priced. Gave him gas, bad. So we went back to ProPlan.

The main thing for a hunting dog is the first ingredient be either meat (chicken, lamb), meat meal (chicken meal) or meat by product meal.

You should also have at least 26% protein and 16% fat. A 30/20 protein fat blend is better if you are really hunting/training hard. This is where a lot of "designer" foods fall short. They have all natural ingredients, wholistic blah blah blah then it shows 21% protein and 9% fat. A dog can't hunt hard with that crap.

Here are some that I've tried or friends have that are good stuff:
Eagle Pack
ProPlan
Eukanuba 
Exclusive
Arkat
Black Gold
Diamond
NutriSource

Yes even Maxximum Nutrition from Wal-Mart is pretty decent. Ol roy sucks.


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## daveb

brianb said:


> The main thing for a hunting dog is the first ingredient be either meat (chicken, lamb), meat meal (chicken meal) or meat by product meal.


I've heard to stay away from meat meal...

Some of the things to look for

You want to see ______ Meal as the first ingredient. Not plain old Meat Meal which can be anything including road kill, but Chicken Meal or if you prefer a Lamb based dog food, Lamb Meal. If you see Chicken or Lamb or Pork or Beef without the Meal after it, they're cheating you. Whole meat without the Meal is mostly water. So you want that _______ Meal first. Most nutritionists prefer a chicken based diet as dogs tend to digest chicken better than lamb.


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## griffman

brianb said:


> There are tons of good foods out there. Not all will work well for your dog.


I think that statement says a lot! I've used pro plan, diamond, nutro, and some other expensive one from an orange bag......but the best luck I've had so far is PMI. Coat is better than ever, weight is great, stools ok, not much gas, lots of energy.

One thing I know..it's amazing how finding the right food for your dog will improve it's looks and performance. What they eat makes a big difference.


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## daveb

brianb said:


> The main thing for a hunting dog is the first ingredient be either meat (chicken, lamb), meat meal (chicken meal) or meat by product meal.


I've heard to stay away from meat meal...

Some of the things to look for

You want to see ______ Meal as the first ingredient. Not plain old Meat Meal which can be anything including road kill, but Chicken Meal or if you prefer a Lamb based dog food, Lamb Meal. If you see Chicken or Lamb or Pork or Beef without the Meal after it, they're cheating you. Whole meat without the Meal is mostly water. So you want that _______ Meal first. Most nutritionists prefer a chicken based diet as dogs tend to digest chicken better than lamb.


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## Bobm

> not much gas, lots of energy


Mike, who you gonna blame now? :wink:


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## tumblebuck

Stay away from anything that has "corn" listed in the first few ingredients.

Personally, I use NutriSource. After trying 3 other brands, that's what has worked the best.

You can't go wrong with Nutro, Canidae, or Eagle Pack either.


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## cedarsedge

I feed Pro-Plan my dogs like it and it works well for me, I have heard nothing but good things about the others also.

Dan


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## taddy1340

Got this from another site. I can't vouch for the accuracy, but is should give you an idea:

Dog Food scores: 
Authority Harvest Baked / Score 116 A+ 
Bil-Jac Select / Score 68 F 
Canidae / Score 112 A+ 
Chicken Soup Senior / Score 115 A+ 
Diamond Maintenance / Score 64 F 
Diamond Lamb Meal & Rice / Score 92 B 
Diamond Large Breed 60+ Formula / Score 99 A 
Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+ 
Dick Van Patten's Duck and Potato / Score 106 A+ 
Foundations / Score 106 A+ 
Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog (lamb) by Solid Gold / Score 93 B 
Iams Lamb Meal & Rice Formula Premium / Score 73 D 
Innova Dog / Score 114 A+ 
Innova Evo / Score 114 A+ 
Kirkland Signature Chicken, Rice, and Vegetables / Score 110 A+ 
Nutrisource Lamb and Rice / Score 87 B 
Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy / Score 87 B 
Pet Gold Adult with Lamb & Rice / Score 23 F 
ProPlan Natural Turkey & Barley / Score 103 A+ 
Purina Beneful / Score 17 F 
Purina Dog / Score 62 F 
Purina Come-n-Get It / Score 16 F 
Royal Canin Bulldog / Score 100 A+ 
Royal Canin Natural Blend Adult / Score 106 A+ 
Sensible Choice Chicken and Rice / Score 97 A 
Science Diet Advanced Protein Senior 7+ / Score 63 F 
Science Diet for Large Breed Puppies / Score 69 F 
Wellness Super5 Mix Chicken / Score 110 A+ 
Wolfking Adult Dog (bison) by Solid Gold / Score 97 A

How to grade your dog's food: Start with a grade of 100: 
1) For every listing of "by-product" , subtract 10 points 
2) For every non-specific animal source ("meat" or "poultry", meat, 
meal or fat) reference, subtract 10 points 
3) If the food contains BHA, BHT, or ethoxyquin, subtract 10 points 
4) For every grain "mill run" or non-specific grain source, subtract 
5 points 
5) If the same grain ingredient is used 2 or more times in the first 
five ingredients (I.e. "ground brown rice", "brewers rice", "rice 
flour" are all the same grain), subtract 5 points 
6) If the protein sources are not meat meal and there are less than 2 
meats in the top 3 ingredients, subtract 3 points 
7) If it contains any artificial colorants, subtract 3 points 
8 ) If it contains ground corn or whole grain corn, subtract 3points 
9) If corn is listed in the top 5 ingredients, subtract 2 more points 
10) If the food contains any animal fat other than fish oil, subtract 
2 points 
11) If lamb is the only animal protein source (unless your dog is 
allergic to other protein sources), subtract 2 points 
12) If it contains soy or soybeans, subtract 2 points 
13) If it contains wheat (unless you know that your dog is not 
allergic to wheat), subtract 2 points 
14) If it contains beef (unless you know that your dog is not 
allergic to beef), subtract 1 point 
15) If it contains salt, subtract 1 point

Extra Credit: 
1) If any of the meat sources are organic, add 5 points 
2) If the food is endorsed by any major breed group or nutritionist, 
add 5 points 
3) If the food is baked not extruded, add 5 points 
4) If the food contains probiotics, add 3 points 
5) If the food contains fruit, add 3 points 
6) If the food contains vegetables (NOT corn or other grains), add 3 
points 
7) If the animal sources are hormone-free and antibiotic-free, add 2 
points 
8 ) If the food contains barley, add 2 points 
9) If the food contains flax seed oil (not just the seeds), add 2 
points 
10) If the food contains oats or oatmeal, add 1 point 
11) If the food contains sunflower oil, add 1 point 
12) For every different specific animal protein source (other than 
the first one; count "chicken" and "chicken meal" as only one protein 
source, but "chicken" and "" as 2 different sources), add 1 point 
13) If it contains glucosamine and chondroitin, add 1 point 
14) If the vegetables have been tested for pesticides and are 
pesticide-free, add 1 point 
Score: 
94-100+ = A 86-93 = B 78-85 = C 70-77 = D 69 and below = F


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## taddy1340

Here's another link to review dog food:

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/


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## griffman

Bobm said:


> not much gas, lots of energy
> 
> 
> 
> Mike, who you gonna blame now? :wink:
Click to expand...

  good question!


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## brianb

The corn thing is a myth. Corn as the first ingredient is not good. This is in cheap foods like Ol Roy and Dog Chow. In foods with chicken/lamb as the first ingredient it is fine.

But corn is an excellent source of carbs. 99% of foods have a grain source and corn is as good as any.

I challenge you to find a food better than Eagle Pack Performance. Corn is the second ingredient.

On the list below there are some good foods rated well and some poor foods rated well. A lot of them that score high don't have the protein & fat level where they need to be for a field dog.


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## ryanps18

> I challenge you to find a food better than Eagle Pack Performance. Corn is the second ingredient


I agree, Eagle Pack is the best food I have used. Downside is its really expensive... I pay $39 per bag


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## Trapper62

JOY Dogfood - I have used this for over 15 years now and would never change. I used it exclusively when I had kennels and trained and raised GSP, from puppy chow to adult maintainence food. It is highly palatable, very little waste compared to the other brands that I have tried. It takes way less food on a /dog/day bais than any other that I have tried. Price is way more reasonable then most quality brands, $18.00/50# bag. These products are manufactored when ordered by distributer, not maufactored and placed in a warehouse for months or years waiting to be sold.

I don't use this for convienience or accessablility. I live in Bottneau, ND (northcentral ND) and the closest distributor is in Fergus Fall, MN.

Check it out for yourself, I was a skeptic when I was first approached to try it, but have used it ever since.

http://www.hygro.net/abjoy.htm

Here is what I use: Special Meal









SPECIAL MEAL & SPECIAL CHUNKS Sp. Meal In Stock: 5, 25, 50 lbs.
Sp. Chunks In Stock: 50 lbs.

We took one of our most popular dog foods and made it better. New Formula JOY Special Meal now gives you 12% fat for even more energy and a healthier coat. And it's better for your dog because it's more natural. Both JOY Special Meal and JOY Special Chunks are highly digestible professional feeds, with the proper blend of proteins, fats and other essential nutrients which your dog is able to most fully utilize. Appealing texture, fully cooked and expanded, ideal for dry or wet feeding because it never becomes pasty. Our special blend of palatable ingredients and our manufacturing method produces a great tasting feed. Like all JOY feeds, JOY Special Meal and JOY Special Chunks have been proven time and time again to be the very best for your dog. 
(Protein 26%, Fat 12%, Digestibility 88%)


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## wirenut

brianb said:


> The corn thing is a myth. Corn as the first ingredient is not good. This is in cheap foods like Ol Roy and Dog Chow. In foods with chicken/lamb as the first ingredient it is fine.
> 
> But corn is an excellent source of carbs. 99% of foods have a grain source and corn is as good as any.
> 
> I challenge you to find a food better than Eagle Pack Performance. Corn is the second ingredient.
> 
> On the list below there are some good foods rated well and some poor foods rated well. A lot of them that score high don't have the protein & fat level where they need to be for a field dog.


I, personally avoid corn altogether, oatmeal is a much better carb. Corn is one of the top causes of allergies in dogs.
This is what I've been feeding for the last 8 yrs and had excellent success.
*Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Ultra Premium / Score 122 A+
*


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## brianb

Corn is not one of the biggest allergies in dogs. I will try and find the article by a vet that confirms this. I just read this last month and it was very interesting.

Food allergies affect a very small percentage of dogs. And of that small percentage of allery cases the vast majority (I believe it is 80%) are caused by the protein source. Not grains.

Wirenut: Glad the VanPatten is working for you.

However, the levels of protein (23%) and fat (13%) are very low for a hard working dog. They did a study on sled dogs a couple of years ago that was published in Retriever Journal and Pointing Dog Journal. They fed numerous groups different diets and exercised them the same. The groups fed diets high in fat and protein (over 30% protein / 20% fat) had no soft tissue injuries during the study. The groups fed lower levels had progressively more. The group fed the lowest protein / fat levels (around 20%/ 10%) all had soft tissue injuries.

They also showed performance was best using one feeding a day to give as long as possible for digestion prior to exercise. Immediate supplemetation with maltodextrin after exercise was also a key to improving performance.


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## taddy1340

> However, the levels of protein (23%) and fat (13%) are very low for a hard working dog. They did a study on sled dogs a couple of years ago that was published in Retriever Journal and Pointing Dog Journal. They fed numerous groups different diets and exercised them the same. The groups fed diets high in fat and protein (over 30% protein / 20% fat) had no soft tissue injuries during the study. The groups fed lower levels had progressively more. The group fed the lowest protein / fat levels (around 20%/ 10%) all had soft tissue injuries.


Good information Brian and I agree, but as with anything, IMO owners need to find what works best for their dog, including protein/fat ratio. There are many "hunting" dogs that the 30/20 would be too high because most just don't receive enough exercise. I believe the study you cited is of importance, but must be kept in context (as you pointed out for hard working dogs) that it was based on sled dogs and most hunting dogs will never work as hard as them.

Mike


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## ryanps18

I feed both my dogs Eagle Pack power ( 30/20) all year long. I just back off on the amont when nessesary. Granted my dogs get a lot of exercise but even still they burn more in the winter no matter what. Both my dogs are lean and very well toned.

Brain

What do you pay for power in minot? I make it their a few times a year and if I could save some $$ I would bring a load back with me.


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## brianb

I don't feed Eagle Pack anymore. I switched to ProPlan for a couple of reasons:

I don't get him enough exercise. I have a 1 year old son and a preg. wife. Time is scarce.

I got tired of having to order it.

PP is cheaper. Eagle was over $40 a bag.

I wouldn't go below the 26/16 protein / fat that most good "Adult" foods have.

Ryanps18 - look me up if you get here during pheasant season. I don't have any secret private land spots but usually got my birds on public. I normally hunt alone so some company would be good, if you can handle hunting with a Chessie. :lol:


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## ryanps18

> Ryanps18 - look me up if you get here during pheasant season. I don't have any secret private land spots but usually got my birds on public. I normally hunt alone so some company would be good, if you can handle hunting with a Chessie.


I will be making it up there during pheasant season at least once this year and will let you know when I make it your way. Now you got me thinking of pheasant season already :beer:

I hope you shoot better than I do


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## brianb

Sounds good. I am a fair shot but can go on cold streaks like nobodies business. Usually when people are watching.

I found the post I was talking about. It was on UplandJournal.com

It was by Joe Spoo, DVM (www.gundogdoc.com) go down to where he discusses Grains.

Thanks - Brian

ust a couple of things on the ingredients, AAFCO terminology sometimes allows for over or misinterpretation by sites like the one referenced and many of their claims are so far from the truth it is scary. I have seen similar ads in magazines that use quality ingredients against good companies. The major companies, Purina, Hills, Iams, have saved more dogs and extended the lives of more dogs through their research and formulas than anyone could ever imagine. These small niche-marketcompanies, while they truly may believe in that lifestyle, are interested only in selling you a bag of dog food.

Some points on ingredients that seem to keep coming up that I think should be clarified.

Meal--meal is just the further processed meat source. For instance chicken meal is just chicken with water removed and ground up. I find it interesting they knock companies for having real meat listed first, even when some of those companies have the real meat listed first and the real meat meal listed second...their logic doesn't follow. They recommend a good quality protein source and then try to bash.

Brewer's Rice--this is not a by-product of the brewing industry. It is the broken rice that cannot by sold at retail and so is SOLD to the brewing industry. This is the same rice consumers purchase, it is just broken. This could just as easily be termed broken rice or, had the pet food manufactures jumped to the table quicker, pet food rice. It is not a by-product.

Digest--Here is one that gets really twisted around. This is the ingredient (i.e. chicken, liver, etc.) that is broken down with enzymes (i.e. digested) into a liquid form and used as a flavoring agent. So essentially the same wholesome ingedients they recommend...just broken down further. This is often made fresh every day and is listed by some manufacturers as natural flavorings instead of the AAFCO determined digest.

Beet Pulp--I have seen this referenced on other threads and not responded. In some ads I have seen claims this is a by-product that is high in sugar and can cause hyper activity. This is a by-product of the sugar beet industry; however, it is after the sugar has been processed and is a fiber source. There is a lot of research into this product that shows it greatly benefits the intestinal cells. It will cause increased effeciency and growth of theses cells. There has been some studies looking at stools related to beet pulp and they have shown that it will cause an increase in frequency but should not cause an increase in overall amount. I strongly recommend to people to identify this as a very beneficial ingredient when looking at labels. And while some feel it doesn't work in their dogs, the majority of dogs will benefit from this ingredient.

Grains--I've said it a bunch so I'll just summarize. Of ALL dog allergies only 10% are related to food, of that small number 80% is to beef and diary and a MAJORITY of the rest is to the protein source. Grains can cause issues but it is not as common as protein. Truly food allergic dogs likely would have a sensitivity to whatever diet they were initially exposed to. In our two-doctor practice we have less than 10 dogs with confirmed food allergies. The issues with grains is that dogs do poorly on low-quality foods and low-quality foods are primarily grains. It is not a grain issue with these foods it is a quality issue.

Fats--Here is another issue they are muddying. Manufacturers in the south have sources of strictly chicken fat and as such use chicken fat. In other parts of the country turkey production is more prominent and many facilities who handle turkey and chiken fat sell it as poultry fat instead of separating the two. The analyticals of the fat from the two birds is essentially the same. Here again an example of stretching the AAFCO definition to fit an agenda.

One of the keys, I feel, as you talk about higher-quality foods is that the better the food quality the less foregiving it is to over feeding. If you are just eyeballing amounts to all the dogs you will have issues with some diets. With the best foods you need to treat the dogs as individuals when feeding them to get the best bang for your buck.

My take on dog food is that there is not one brand that is the answer for all dogs and anyone who tells you there is, is feeding you a line. There are a number of great dog foods out there, the key is to be able to identify them, categorize them into good, better and best and try to feed your dogs the best that you can afford.

Many of these holistic, organic, etc formulas are more gimmick than reality. They pick apart the major manufacturers with invalid claims in order to sell their products. The reason they can do this is that they are too small to draw the attention of regulators and are not hurting the big boys enough to draw a response. Major manufacturers want to produce the best product at a good price and obviously the longer your dog lives the more food they can sell you so why would they put ingredients in there that are harmful or toxic??? The next time you pick up a 50 or 60 dollar bag of dog food ask yourself what you are paying for?? How different are the ingredients from other more reasonable foods? What am I paying for...the quality of the food? The research into pet health? Or a gimmick? With these unsubstantiated internet sites my response to my own clients is -- I can post on the internet my neighbor is an alien but that doesn't make it true.

Ok, extremely long-winded but I thought it needed some clarification.

Joe


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## tallgrasser

Nutri-Source, 2 Thumbs-up, Performance and Super Performance year round.


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## neb_bo

pmi exclusive performance. i feed my older dog the senior formula, its a 25/12, so shes not gaining weight, and she can eat enough to be full. its also got 600ppm of glucosamine, and 300ppm of chondroitin, along with a good variety of vitamins. coats are good stools good, good sustained energy with the performance. about $30 a bag, and any purina dealer can get it.


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## griffman

Bringing back this subject-

Looks like I'm back in the mix for a new food. The only place I can get the food I've been feeding is out of stock, and they are not sure when they'll get more. In fact, the food is supposed to be "redeveloped". Arrrrggh :******:

The point of me bringing this issue back on the table is......another thing you may want to consider when picking a food is availability!

I'm now gonna give Nutrisource a shot. It's sold at several dealers in my area, seems to get good ratings, and many in this thread recommend it.

I've tried diamond, eagle, proplan in the past....had my best luck with PMI.

Wish me luck!


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## Turner

I use Nature's Select. The chicken, lamb and rice is what my dog gets. I get it delivered to my house next day after I call for it, free delivery. Take a look for yourself, I have been very pleased with the service and the food. It's not on the recall list either (bonus)

http://www.paulspetfood.com/


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## tumblebuck

Griffman,

What food are are/were you using? Where do you live?

Nutri Source is good stuff.


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## griffman

Turner- That's interesting. How much does it cost?

Tumblebuck- I was feeding PMI, it's not listed in too many top ten list's, but for some reason, my dog seemed to do extremely well with the stuff. I'm in the Bis/Man area too. Who's cheapest for nutrisource in the area?


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## Turner

50 # bag delivered to my door step is right around $44.00


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## griffman

Turner said:


> 50 # bag delivered to my door step is right around $44.00


Thanks for the info


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## tumblebuck

Griffman,

PM sent.



> 50 # bag delivered to my door step is right around $44.00


Can't be Nutri Source. Nutri Source comes in 35 lb bags. And if it is a 35# instead of a 50# bag, you're getting ripped off.


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## Turner

It's not nutri source, it's called nature's select and it comes in 50# bags


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## tumblebuck

My bad....I should've read up a couple posts.


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## wirenut

live2hunt said:


> I feed Purina One with both my yellow lab and my springer/brittany cross. I move to Purina Pro Plan during the hunting season.


I went to a seminar put on by Purina at the NAVHDA Annual Meeting. His take was it takes about 3 months for the change in diet to make a difference in the dog, and by that time season is about over. He recommended to feed the higher quality food year round.


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## BIRDSHOOTER

tumblebuck said:


> Can't be Nutri Source. Nutri Source comes in 35 lb bags. And if it is a 35# instead of a 50# bag, you're getting ripped off.


Nutrisource Performance and Super Performance come in 40 lb bags.


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## tumblebuck

Yes, I know.

Adult and puppy are 35#

...and 40# still doesn't equal 50# :wink:


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## David Bloom

i have two english setters and i have been feeding them Iams for years and it seems to be very good for them. i was curious to what u guys might suggest for a high endurance food for when its time to hunt down those willey roosters?


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## Goosehunterdog

I feed Pro-Plan to all of my dogs and have never had any trouble with it at all.


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## tumblebuck

> i have two english setters and i have been feeding them Iams for years and it seems to be very good for them. i was curious to what u guys might suggest for a high endurance food for when its time to hunt down those willey roosters?


Nutrisource Super Performance


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## D&amp;D

I feed my puppies Nutro large breed and Pro Plan for my adults. Had great success with both.


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## wirehairman

David Bloom said:


> i have two english setters and i have been feeding them Iams for years and it seems to be very good for them. i was curious to what u guys might suggest for a high endurance food for when its time to hunt down those willey roosters?


Iams and Eukanuba are made by the same company. Your setters can easily be transitioned between the two if you want to up their protein/fat intake during the season.


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## huntcrazy_1

I have been reading all of these posts and see that science diet is not a good food. That is what I have been feeding for three years. Seems to be working for my dog. but because of the bad reviews I was thinking obout changing. Is it really that bad or should I keep feeding it? Why is it the only food my vet recomends?


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## brianb

Science Diet isn't terrible it is just overpriced for what you are getting. It has low protein / fat and has lots of grains.

Science Diet makes a bunch of prescription formulas for dogs with medical issues (example: liver and kidney issues) They also did a wonderful job of getting vets under contract.

Any number of foods will work, be better for your dog and cheaper than Science Diet. Go back to what was listed but you'd be hard pressed to find something better than ProPlan, Nutrisource, Eukanuba, Exclusive, or Diamond.

Brian


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