# Anyone do snow removal, skidsteer rental, or dirt leveling?



## GSPMIKE (May 28, 2010)

I'm doing a little research.

I would like to purchase an older Skidsteer mostly just to have for personal use. I figure if I can move some snow in the winter, rent it out for small jobs or level some dirt for people, I could offset the cost of owning one a little. Since they are not cheap for a decent one with heat.

What do you charge for residential, Roughly?
Commercial?

Contract per year or by the number of times you move snow?

Any info would be sweet.

Is a guy better off with a skidsteer or compact tractor?


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## 1ndnative (Aug 11, 2010)

Some things you need to consider. If your gonna do it commercially & not just to help the neighbors.
#1 -- make sure you check the lot before the snow falls & make note of the fire hydrants and other items that will be covered up!

A skid steer with a 2 speed, benefits are you can go faster if you need to get to cross-town jobs without loading on a trailer.
Plus on long parking lots you can go at a fast speed.

I'd recommend tires -vs- tracks -- I've had bad luck with tracks on ice. They do push like crazy on dry land, but heavy & slower
You definately want a cab with heat, defrost & a wiper. Must have a beacon on the roof & will want a cig lighter to re-charge your cell phone. Make sure your pickup has a service tank to fuel up your skid steer.
You definately want to consider who you let run the machine -- enough said --
You want some type of insurance -- you'd be surprised at what items you will "find" under that pile of snow
Must have a larger snow bucket or I prefer a wide (10 to 12') snow pusher. I also have a bobcat sno-blower attachment.

If you do a contract be very careful of the wording IE: churches want the lot clear before church, banks before they open in the morning. -- So what happens if your machine is broken down, your sick, out of town, etc... ALSO have a clause in there as to lawn damage, when doing residential it is very easy to skim the grass! Trust me a re-sod job is expensive!

Lastly you must have a heated shop to thaw it out, with a good floor drain, keep spare filters,fluids on hand, and good luck!

I charge by the job, with a yearly contract, sometimes I get burned (alot of snow) sometimes it works out good. On special jobs by the hour $90.00, with a 1 hr minimum. I currently run a 763, and a s185 bobcat. Have had a t190, 643, 610.


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## GSPMIKE (May 28, 2010)

Thanks for some of the pointers

I thought about the insurace and stuff, but not about the service tanks, filters, parts and extra fuel.

For snow removal I would like to keep it close to home, rental only to people I know, and leveling and dirt moving for the people I didnt trust to rent too.

I did some plowing for a guy in college, and had to do some pre-winter scouting. We bought bundles of fiberglass rods and marked everything. Also had a 3 ring binder and drew a quick sketch of the driveway, cracks, curbs and other hazards. This was incase of sickness or vacation and another person had to plow for you.

Not looking to get too big right now, just want to have enough of an income to support some smaller payments, once the machine is paid for I can see where it would go from there.

I have 2 people lined up for spare drivers that are better operators than I am for times I'm not around, and 2 spare rigs I can rent by the hour if I have down time.

I really no nothing about the skidsteers themselves, but have operated newer bobcats, cases, and CATS. I`m looking for fairly light duty right now. I have a half ton truck and dont want to buy a new truck just to pull a huge skid steer.

Whats a good size for snow removal starters with operating experience that will pull decent behind a half ton?

Bobcats are the most familiar to me. I know what the S,T's models with numbers mean, but how about the 600/700 numbers?

I like diesels, looking to spend 9,000-11,000 for something taken care of.

Just looking to get my ducks in a row, when I go for money I like them to see that I have covered all the bases.


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## 1ndnative (Aug 11, 2010)

I bought all my equipment used -- The 2001, 763 bobcat I have is at about 46hp, is diesel, is rated at about 1500 lbs lift, handles a 10' protech snow pusher. I bought it used with 1800 hrs & have about $12,000 into it (with new paint & tires). Weights 5600 lbs so I can pull it with a standard car type trailer (7000 lb gvw). It is the same (performance) as a S130 machine.

Sounds like you are on the right path with your driveway sketches, extra drivers, etc. I put in a bulk tank at my shop, can buy diesel a little cheaper than at the pumps, then just fill my skidders from my service pickup. You might check into the RED "farm use only" diesel fuel instead of the clear "over-the-road" diesel.

I try to keep good relations with a local dealer, it helps if I need a repair schematic, or any mechanical trouble shooting. I do try to do all my repairs myself if possible. Keep good records, keep spare fuel filter on hand, best wishes for you.

I don't rent out my bobcats, but our local dealer rents out smaller sized S130 to S160 machines for $285/day + an extra $65.00/day for the trailer (8 hour day).


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## jtillman (Oct 31, 2005)

1ndnative sums it up very nicely. I worked in the contruction equipment industry for quite some time and have seen a number of people with your thoughts try and do this. The one thing I would reccomend is if you are going to do this, if you can't pay for the used machine in cash, it isn't worth doing. I have seen a number of people making payments on a skid fail because the 'rental' and jobs they thought would come just aren't there.

If you can't afford to pay in cash, I'd look to the equipment dealers that offer rental and see if what you can get for 'snow-fighter' rates. Many times those are extremely attractive options as you get a real nice machine, good bucket/snow pusher, they have warranty on the machine and will service it for you. Only draw back is they are usually based off of a maximum amount of hours and your hour overage fee is quite expensive.

Lastly, I want to talk about tracks versus tires. I'm thinking 1ndnative has never run a CAT or an ASV in the winter. CAT/ASV tracks have no steel in their tracks (not counting their newer C-line since we are taking about used machines), and work extremely well in snow and ice. You get the benefit of the extra ground contact for more pushing ability and you can lift more (compared to same sized wheel machine)...all while having a much smoother ride than any wheel machine will give you. Negative is that a track machine will cost more for purchase and cost more to run.

I'm also not a big fan of people using 2spd for snow removal....its a personal thing, but it's not the right gearing for pushing snow...and when handling material in 2spd, stupid and bad things happen. 2spd should be just to get you to one area of the jobsite quicker...and that's all.


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## 1ndnative (Aug 11, 2010)

You are correct, the T190 was the only tracked machine I've ever owned/run. I absolutely loved it doing dirt work, especially in soft area's, or pushing manure, but had troubles on ice/sidehill parking lots, that could be from my inexperience.

2 speed is real nice for going from job to job. I have used it when there is little snow due to the wind blowing certain areas of the parking lot clean, and 1-2" in other area's, and I'm doing a long lot. Yes, I do agree that it shouldn't be used all the time.

I also agree on the try to pay cash if at all possible. If you are buying one as a "toy" then you can earn extra money on the side, But if your buying one to make money and If it doesn't snow, and you have no contract (guaranteed pay) you have no income for that day/week/month.

Renting to friends/neighbors is tough, I've done it, if something breaks it can get touchy. I had a "friend" accidentally put gasoline in my diesel skidloader, ( he was just trying to replace the fuel he used, his intentions were good) yes it was expensive. I haven't lost any friends from this, but I have stopped renting out my equipment unless I operate it myself.

Wish you the best on whatever you choose.


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## GSPMIKE (May 28, 2010)

I'm researching a low interest business loan, that requires a "rainy day/lack of business" fund and a detailed business plans for the "What Ifs"

So I should be good there, currently I can afford a payment on a 10,000 skidsteer, but if I invest that kind of change and convince the wife, I would like to use it more than my few uses a year so It brought me to starting a business.

Our second child is coming this spring and may be scrapping this Idea all together for another time, I`ll be waiting till a few months after the baby comes to pull the trigger on a new adventure.

Its never to early to start planning, plus I`m thinking I missed the boat for this winter, most probably have their snow removal figured out for this winter.

Back to some skidsteer questions?

Besides Craigslist, what other places are good to shop at?
How high of hours should scare me with-out a recent major overhaul?
Should a gas unit be out of question for a light duty rig?
How hard is it to put on aux hydraulics if the machine doesn't come with them? (I would need this for a snowblower or grapple correct?)

What brands should I stay away from and why?


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## jtillman (Oct 31, 2005)

This is all my opinion from personal experience.

*Besides Craigslist, what other places are good to shop at? *
-Look at your larger local/regional equipment dealers (RDO, Bulter, Ziegler, Titan) and see what they have in their used line. For example, awhile ago Ziegler had a ton of used machines from their rental line. They fixed and maintained everything and would have no worries on picking up a used one like that. I'm a little more cautious on trade-ins than rentals in all honesty.
-Equipment Auctions can be real good too. (I.E. Richie Brothers.)

*How high of hours should scare me with-out a recent major overhaul?*
-I hate this question...I look at more what the machine was used for than the hours. I'd personally stay away from concrete or salvage machines. Old farm machines are usually good because they are often just poop scoopers...but they smell. 
-Find the serial number on the machine and bring it to the dealer and have the service department run a report to see what has been done to it....good way to see how hard its been used or what's been done to it.

*Should a gas unit be out of question for a light duty rig?*
-I sold a couple of gas units to small hobby farms for barn work and just clearing out some paths in the winter...not heavy use at all and they liked those little machines a lot. The thing I do like about them is that they can't get you in trouble as easily as the bigger machines can 

*How hard is it to put on aux hydraulics if the machine doesn't come with them? (I would need this for a snowblower or grapple 
correct?)*
-No clue...but I can't think it'd be a fun job by any means....if you want aux hyd...I'd just buy one with them.

*What brands should I stay away from and why*
-I am very biased on this, but I think CAT's are the best, especially if you have any thought of renting them out to novice users. The hand controls are the best thing out there. They are more expensive but hold their value much better than anything else too. But in all honesty, something like a Bobcat 763 will likely be your best option as there are many of them out there, they are cheap and they have a good dealer network out there. I'd personally stop at CAT or Bobcat....sure you can get some good deals on a JD, Case, Gehl, etc....but they are mostly junk IMO.


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## Andy Weber (Nov 18, 2009)

I agree with most of everything said up here. I have run CATs in gravel pits and the big ones are un stoppable, but the price is UNFATHOMABLE. I almost cried when they told me what the price was after we tested one. And their labor is a bit ridiculus if you have a problem you can't fix. 
Your question about aux hydrolics. You shouldn't need to instal them on hardly any models since 99% of the skidders made since 2000 have them installed.


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

If your buying used be very carefull. There are a lot of junk skid steers out there right now because of all the oil field machines. They either buy them and run the piss out of them and then trade them off and get a new one or they rent one from the dealer and run the piss out of them and return them to the dealer. Also the B series Caterpillar had a lot of problems. Their C series is much beter. Bobcat also has their own quality control issues too.


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