# Slient air rifle.... options?



## avv604

Greetings all,

I am thinking about selling two of my air rifles and purchasing one that is for birds and other small pests. I would like to the rifle to be as quite as possible. I need to have accuracy out to 50 yards or so.

It does not matter if it is PCP or a springer, and the price needs to be around $400.

I have a few PCPs in mind but would like some other options.

Ideas?


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## Ambush Hunter

Jeff, unfortunately, $400 is not enough to cover a decent PCP, recharging equipment, scope, and a shroud/mod.

As far as springers go, some medium power springers are not loud to begin with. And this is what you need, a medium-energy springer. Out to 50 yards 11-14 FPE is more than enough if accuracy is there. Suppressing a springer is a daunting task since most of the noise comes from internals and not the muzzle. On top of that, it adds to the overall length of the gun making it awkward in certain situations...like a pigeon work in barns.

Conduct a little test using the gun vise. Hook up a fishing line to a trigger. Cock, load, vise it up, and walk 50 yards out. Pull the trigger. Now you know how actually quiet it is... 

If you don't mind CO2, there is a RWS/Hammerli 850. Running at 12 FPE in .22 it is accurate enough out to 40-50 yards. If you put an RWS/Umarex Compensator on it and tape the camo or an electrical tape all over it, real tight (you have to cover all the compensating holes), the rifle will become mouse-fart quiet... I had this gun before.

http://www.pyramydair.com/p/rws-850-Air ... ifle.shtml
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/a/Umarex_Co ... ifles/1135

But for springers that are accurate, quiet, light, and powerful enough for your application, you can't beat Weihrauch HW50S (11-12 FPE). It's around $350-380 depending on the dealer. Here is mine with a shroud, but I got the shroud mainly for the look; it only extends the rifle 2" pass the muzzle...btw, the shroud itself was only $40 :wink:










AH.


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## Scottie_The_Boy

Now I Like what I am Hearing as I watch the Video report on this RWS 850 Hammerli .22 caliber.... I Like the Repeater idea of the cylinders...

I Think It's what I may have to look into further when I part with this 870 shotgun.....

Thanks alot...

Scottie_The_Boy


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## avv604

AH,

Okay, I see what you mean. What would you recommend? Say in the $500-650 range? In .22 or .25 caliber and shrouded barrel.


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## avv604

I think this in .22 will work...
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/Benjamin-Ma ... ifle.shtml

Opinions?


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## Scottie_The_Boy

avv604,Did you happen to get my PM last night?

Anyhow I like my Remington Slug barrels,that being said,I like them sites alot more on the RWS 850, they are Just as solid as them on the remington shotguns and rifles....Solid ramp with a Nice fiber optic site set up on it .... I Think that will be my goal guys...

I Am just noticing a twang with the spring guns in the Videos and from the one I have...I Want to have a nice air rifle for the quiet shots,other wise I will end up just having all Pigeons spooked in the barn and travelling back and forth after the first shot. Sorta like whats happening now for me...

Also I want a .22 so it has that knock down punch I want on the birds... Not so much Speed of 1000-1500 of the .177 as thats more like shooting a slow and dead shot .22 longrifle compared to a .17 hmr on a slight breeze day...... The .22 will be the turtle that delivers and the .17 HMR will be the speedy rabbit that got sidetracked with the slightest breeze or blade of grass....

I had both and Liked my old Stevens Bolt action .22 for long range shots on chucks over my new Marlin .17 hmr....

personal choice.

Best wishes with the choice you make avv604....

Any thought on what ya might sell?

Scottie_The_Boy


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## avv604

Okay, I think I found what I want... but I would like some opinions....

There is a large price different between
Air Arms S410 
http://www.pyramydair.com/p/air-arms-s4 ... ifle.shtml

and the Marauder....

Which do you think would be... well.. better?


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## Ambush Hunter

Scottie_The_Boy said:


> Now I Like what I am Hearing as I watch the Video report on this RWS 850 Hammerli .22 caliber.... I Like the Repeater idea of the cylinders...


Scottie, some say that RWS850 is a poor's man Rapid. I disagree. It has a mind of its own...These are good guns if you don't mind CO2 powerplant with its cons... I used to have one and I loved it.

In .22 it would be in the low 600fps range on average...right around 12 FPE. Be carefull working that bolt. Be gentle because the pin that pushes a pellet into the breach is made of plastic.


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## Ambush Hunter

avv604 said:


> Okay, I think I found what I want... but I would like some opinions....
> 
> There is a large price different between
> Air Arms S410
> http://www.pyramydair.com/p/air-arms-s4 ... ifle.shtml
> 
> and the Marauder....
> 
> Which do you think would be... well.. better?


Oh no, you found AA S-410 :beer:

There is no contest. Air Arms wins by all parameters. As you know it is more expensive. The woodwork is simply stunning. Super accurate; Jim Chapman nails p-dogs and rabbits with his S-410 all the way out to 120 yards! Trigger is of a Match quality. 10 shot repeater. Shrouded barrel and it includes 1/2x20 female thread for additional "thingies."

Marauder is a new Crosman model that hasn't been tested for that long. I hear mixed up reviews on this one, but most of them are positive. No doubt, go with .22 for hunting.

DO NOT buy PCPs from PyramydAir. They do not have any capability to back it up with service, repair or maintenence.

.22 S-410 with a custom moderator.


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## Scottie_The_Boy

ambush Hunter, well now thats a Bummer.....

Thinking maybe I'll Hold off on pellet rifle idea's and stick with thinning the pigeons off silo's instead with a .22 rimfire on a bipod and a 4-12x50 scope....

And just wait on inside barn fun of shooting them and stalking them in their roost...

As we can't use any type of silencer in New York State...and if i had to go about installing one homemade on a pellet rifle to lower the noise for more then one shot, I hate to walk out of a barn and have a state trouper or sheriff drive by and swing back to ask what I am up to and see a decked out pellet rifle with a Nose cone on it and ask if he can try it out and such and notice there is no sound at all..other then Pink when it hits a pop can...

Thanks for all your tips and idea's and thoughts on a nice all around rifle threw this time shared...

Best wishes

Scottie_The_Boy


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> Oh no, you found AA S-410 :beer:
> 
> There is no contest. Air Arms wins by all parameters. As you know it is more expensive. The woodwork is simply stunning. Super accurate; Jim Chapman nails p-dogs and rabbits with his S-410 all the way out to 120 yards! Trigger is of a Match quality. 10 shot repeater. Shrouded barrel and it includes 1/2x20 female thread for additional "thingies."
> 
> Marauder is a new Crosman model that hasn't been tested for that long. I hear mixed up reviews on this one, but most of them are positive. No doubt, go with .22 for hunting.
> 
> DO NOT PCPs from PyramydAir. They do not have any capability to back it up with service, repair or maintenence.
> 
> .22 S-410 with a custom moderator.


Okay... so I am really liking the AA S410. But, I am looking through your pics above and I see something interesting. 
FX Tarantula?

And... do you have any pics from the AA at 100 yards?


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## Ambush Hunter

Jeff, _it is_ .22 Air Arms S-410...

No I don't have any target pics but on a good day it will produce 1/2" at 50 yards for 5 shots.

Here is another blog to check. There are couple of Marauder articles...

http://varmintair.typepad.com/varmintairs_blog/

AH


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## Ambush Hunter

Speaking of FX Tarantula  ...this is a 100 yard group Steve from the Yellow forum (the owner) shot couple of months ago!

There is a drop and the wind shift. But the group itself is OUTSTANDING :sniper: I think he was sighted in at 60 yards or so.


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> Jeff, _it is_ .22 Air Arms S-410...
> 
> No I don't have any target pics but on a good day it will produce 1/2" at 50 yards for 5 shots.
> 
> Here is another blog to check. There are couple of Marauder articles...
> 
> http://varmintair.typepad.com/varmintairs_blog/
> 
> AH


AH,
How quite is the Air Arms S-410 without the additional item?


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## Ambush Hunter

On full power (around 32 FPE) it's a bit louder than RWS34, I'd say...but S-410 has an adjustable power. For close range work you can dial it down or half way and it will be almost silent. Of course, if you shoot on both high and low, you'll have to have two different zeroes...I only shoot on high power and my zero is 50 yards...


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## avv604

AH,

I have read some articles regarding the AA S-410. It is a remarkable rifle. So, if you will indulge me in a few questions I have regarding the rifle.

First question is regarding the power. My Evanix AR6 (which I will be selling) will produce around 60 fpe with a 32 grain pellet. This gun is rated at 30 fpe. Can I take a groundhog at 100 yards, is there enough energy left over? Of course pellet choice, wind, and everything else considered... what is your opinion?


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## Ambush Hunter

Jeff,

The common mistake air-gunners make is when they think more energy is better. AA S-410 is not a super high power rifle. It produces between 30 and 33 FPE depending on the pellet. According to my calculations, 18 gr. JSB pellet leaves the muzzle at 32.5 FPE and still has some 12 FPE left at 100 yards! This is a LOT of energy for a groundhog IF you can place that slug where it belongs! That's like putting .22 RWS850's muzzle to a groundhog's head and pulling the trigger. I believe these need at least 7 FPE on impact to be dispatched cleanly. Accuracy is the key. So yes, my answer is YES, you can. Of course, there are some more powerful rifles out there, but again, as long as you have enough punch and accuracy, all that extra energy is wasted anyway. Best kill zones for a g-hog are the side of its head and upper chest.
Here is a good place to do your calculations. Be advised that in some applications you will need a BC (ballistic coefficient of your pellet) in order to calculate an accurate answer.

Hope it helps.

http://www.airgunexpo.com/calc/index.cfm

AH.


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> Jeff,
> 
> The common mistake air-gunners make is when they think more energy is better. AA S-410 is not a super high power rifle. It produces between 30 and 33 FPE depending on the pellet. According to my calculations, 18 gr. JSB pellet leaves the muzzle at 32.5 FPE and still has some 12 FPE left at 100 yards! This is a LOT of energy for a groundhog IF you can place that slug where it belongs! That's like putting .22 RWS850's muzzle to a groundhog's head and pulling the trigger. I believe these need at least 7 FPE on impact to be dispatched cleanly. Accuracy is the key. So yes, my answer is YES, you can. Of course, there are some more powerful rifles out there, but again, as long as you have enough punch and accuracy, all that extra energy is wasted anyway. Best kill zones for a g-hog are the side of its head and upper chest.
> Here is a good place to do your calculations. Be advised that in some applications you will need a BC (ballistic coefficient of your pellet) in order to calculate an accurate answer.
> 
> Hope it helps.
> 
> http://www.airgunexpo.com/calc/index.cfm
> 
> AH.


AH,

Again, thank you. I have learned now that with great power comes great responsibility. Oh wait... that is something else. 
I have now learned that I choose accuracy and a shrouded barrel over extreme power.

I believe I will sell what I have, save, and get the Air Arms S-410. 
Between the two (JH .457 and S410) rifles, I should be good for just about anything on the farm and beyond.


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## Ambush Hunter

Jeff, what exactly do you use to refill your PCP?


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> Jeff, what exactly do you use to refill your PCP?


An excellent question to which brings the next round of questions in preparation for the future. 
Currently I use a hand pump.

I am planning on purchasing an air tank due to the JH arriving.... whenever it arrives. I know I will need at least a 3500 psi tank but really a 4500 psi tank is preferred. As far as the specifics of the setup, currently that is a phase of my research. I am not sure what is the best fit for what I _will_ have.


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## Ambush Hunter

avv604 said:


> I am planning on purchasing an air tank due to the JH arriving.... whenever it arrives. I know I will need at least a 3500 psi tank but really a 4500 psi tank is preferred. As far as the specifics of the setup, currently that is a phase of my research. I am not sure what is the best fit for what I _will_ have.


Yeah, using a hand pump with a big bore is a no-no 

I agree, you will need 4500psi tank IF you know you a have a way of refilling that thing. Some (not all) paintball stores have 5000psi compressors so they can do it. Or if you know anyone at the fire department, they have it also.

Scuba tanks (3000psi)...no. You will not have but two-three refills. Especially if the big bore requires 3000+ fill for the best consistency. I know, it's too early to tell, but you get an idea...

I bring a 4500psi tank to the range and use a Hill hand pump when go out hunting.


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> avv604 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am planning on purchasing an air tank due to the JH arriving.... whenever it arrives. I know I will need at least a 3500 psi tank but really a 4500 psi tank is preferred. As far as the specifics of the setup, currently that is a phase of my research. I am not sure what is the best fit for what I _will_ have.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, using a hand pump with a big bore is a no-no
> 
> I agree, you will need 4500psi tank IF you know you a have a way of refilling that thing. Some (not all) paintball stores have 5000psi compressors so they can do it. Or if you know anyone at the fire department, they have it also.
> 
> Scuba tanks (3000psi)...no. You will not have but two-three refills. Especially if the big bore requires 3000+ fill for the best consistency. I know, it's too early to tell, but you get an idea...
> 
> I bring a 4500psi tank to the range and use a Hill hand pump when go out hunting.
Click to expand...

AH,

I have checked around to a couple of paintball and scuba places around my location. I have found two places that are able to handle the 4500 psi.

Regarding the "charging" tube and other items needed - is there somewhere that can walk a newbie through the beginning stages of items needed?

Good idea, the hand pump for out hunting. I was figuring after this year was over, next year I would purchase a pigmee tank and take that with me hunting. 
I have to get through this year first. When I told my wife about the JH, she just shook her head and said "I am not going to try to understand."


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## Ambush Hunter

"_Regarding the "charging" tube and other items needed - is there somewhere that can walk a newbie through the beginning stages of items needed_?"

Pyramydair has some good articles on this subject. Also their daily blog has tons of info if you take time searching it...

When time comes, I can also help. Get the rifle first :wink:

"_When I told my wife about the JH, she just shook her head and said "I am not going to try to understand." _

Hehe...women! oke:


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> When time comes, I can also help. Get the rifle first


And that time will not come soon enough. And it is will be time to :rock: 
What is funny about the whole airgun hobby now... is just over 4 months ago I sold all my camera gear ($3000 worth) and gave up that hobby. But.. it is a much more expensive hobby.


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## Ambush Hunter

Not as expensive as scuba diving... :wink:


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## zzyzx

For your price range the Marauder will do the job. Still need a Hill Pump though which will be another $200. 
If you can live with a single shot at a time try the Discovery. Under $400 including the pump at a number of stores. Resale on them isn't bad if/when you decide to sell and move on or up.

Take a good look at the used air rifles on many of the ad boards. Getting one from an enthusiast who has to buy the latest and greatest often means you get a rifle that is excellent and only being sold to fund the next fix. ;-)

I like having a 10 shot magazine. Helps with follow up shots and the occasional wounded animal I need a second shot to finish. Really helps when I get excited and miss an easy gopher at 15 yards... maybe I shouldn't admit that one??? It happens.


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## avv604

.177 Marauder is here. I don't have the money yet for a decent scope and rings, but I have a little cheap Leapers 3-9x40 with cheapo $10 rings. It is hard to tell now but it seems this rifle is accurate. For now only time with tell.

Quite, yes. Nice and quite.


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## zzyzx

From the many I hear from who have the Marauder you should be very pleased with it. The links below will get you to forums that has a lot of info on them. 
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.com/airguns ... asp?fid=84
http://www.network54.com/Forum/581291/

If you get wanting to get it 'perfected' you can check out Greg Davis http://www.network54.com/Forum/652081/

He does major tunes to re-working the barrel to putting on a Lothay Walther barrel in addition to the tune re-working. Nothing but top recommendations from those who use his services.

That said, you should be just fine with the stock rifle. It is adjustable over a wide range and if you do have any problems Crosman is very good about quick service.

Have fun and the gophers better start hiding.


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