# Dealing w/ Distractions



## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

My dog is 2/3rds done with his training from a trainer, as some of you know. He is FF up to this point, but have not done any hunting with him since I got him back 3-4 weeks ago. He is on about a 2 month break from the kennel. Anyways, I have been working with him in the yard about 5-6 times a week and he does awesome in the yard. Heels and fetches every time.

My problem comes when I bring him to a buddy's house who has a dog and try to work with him there, or a pond or anywhere else, other than the yard, when there are more people/dogs around. I try to get him to fetch his dummy and all he will do is run up to it and run by it. He don't give a rats arss about any of his training. I give him a NO, with a correction from the collar and he still does not listen. It is extremely frustrating. What is going to happen when there are 5 guys and 1 more dog in the decoys? Thanks in advance for any help.

I forgot to add this. He will listen to me in an unfamiliar environment if it is just him and I. He will also listen to me in the yard if there are a couple other people around and no dogs.

Thanks
Adam


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

IF by a two month break from the kennel you mean you're planning to let the trainer finish the job than talk to him about it not us your trainer needs to teach you how to apply pressure to make the dog mind that is the whole point of FF to teach the dog he has no choice and to give you a method the dog is familiar with to apply pressure.

IF this isn't what you mean restate the questiion.

In the mean time do not try to train him in any situation he will not obey in. Until YOU learn how to make him do right you are undoing the trainers work when you allow the dog to thumb his nose at you.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

He is going back to the trainer at the end of May for his final month of training. You are right, I should have consulted him. If I understand you right, when I put him in situations where he don't listen, and I can't or don't know how to correct him, I am doing more bad than good, and should stop it right away. I am assuming there are going to be times when I may have to teach my dog a thing or two. They aer not always going to lbe perfect. I thought this could be something I could fix, and I want to fix it. One less thing the trainer has to worry about when the dog goes back.

Assuming he is not going back to the trainer, what would you work on to fix this.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

As usual, very sound advice from Bobm. If the dog is not finished FF stop the retrieving work. If the dog is finished, you need to send him back to the trainer or get some sort of a refund. The trainer should have shown you how to work with the dog.

Also, don't use the collar to correct that behavior. There are better ways to use the collar, talk to your trainer before you do anything else.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

AdamFisk said:


> He is going back to the trainer at the end of May for his final month of training. You are right, I should have consulted him. If I understand you right, when I put him in situations where he don't listen, and I can't or don't know how to correct him, I am doing more bad than good, and should stop it right away. I am assuming there are going to be times when I may have to teach my dog a thing or two. They aer not always going to lbe perfect. I thought this could be something I could fix, and I want to fix it. One less thing the trainer has to worry about when the dog goes back.
> 
> Assuming he is not going back to the trainer, what would you work on to fix this.


I don't understand why the trainer would give you your dog back after halfways breaking him? That is one of the main rules in force breaking, once you start, you shouldnt' stop until the dog is broke. By stopping mid process, it only allows for further setbacks and could be more alot more work than if the process would have been completed.

To answer a couple of your questions. Yes you should stop the retrieving if you are unsure of how to do it. Yes, you are doing more harm than good right now. Yes, you may have to teach your dog a thing or two, BUT, you have to teach yourself first! That is the key...train yourself before you train your dog. Yes, you can fix the problem, after you educate yourself. However, if you plan on sending the dog back, you may be better off going that route. As far as being perfect....that is what force breaking is about. A truly broke dog should be basically perfect, if they aren't, they are not force broke.

Bottom line, if you don't know how to fix the problem, don't try! You've come this far with your trainer, let him/her finish the job. Just my opinion.


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

griffman said:


> AdamFisk said:
> 
> 
> > He is going back to the trainer at the end of May for his final month of training. You are right, I should have consulted him. If I understand you right, when I put him in situations where he don't listen, and I can't or don't know how to correct him, I am doing more bad than good, and should stop it right away. I am assuming there are going to be times when I may have to teach my dog a thing or two. They aer not always going to lbe perfect. I thought this could be something I could fix, and I want to fix it. One less thing the trainer has to worry about when the dog goes back.
> ...


I agree,I would think that during FF you wouldn't get him back until it was complete? I also agree that I would stop messing with him and you should have been instructed on what and what not to do by your trainer.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

My dog is done with his FF. You guys are misunderstanding me. He has 1 month of training left. It involves working over the water and field with decoys and live birds, using his blind, flushing pheasantas, ect. If any problems arise during this period, the trainer will back up and correct them. It may be 2 more months of training. Anyways, for the record, my dog is completely FF, just not very good.

When he goes back to the trainer I expect him to correct this distraction problem. He won't have a problem with that. There are a few other things that need to be worked on as well. I would not be able to tell the trainer this if I had never worked with my dog, like you guys are suggesting.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Adam, I don't believe anyone said you don't work with your dog. Don't get the wrong impression, everyone who posted is just trying to help! I fully believe you are dedicated to your dog and his training.

Let me explain something to you Adam. Now don't get all bent out of shape, I'm just giving you some info ok? FF is a technique. The goal of FFing is to "break" the dog. The theory of breaking is the same with other animals such as horses. For example, when a horse is broke, a person can ride that horse at ALL times. The horse will no longer buck a person off....ever. The same goes for force breaking a dog. The dog should never refuse a retrieve if force broke to fetch. Now, having said that, what YOU have is a dog that is not yet broke. That's not a bad thing, in fact the problem you uncovered may turn out to be just what the dog needs.

What you found out is that the dog is generally obedient with the fetch command, not force broke. All that means is you discovered a possible key to getting your dog over the hump to being broke. It happens with most dogs, it's nothing to get mad about. In fact, if a dog is an "easy" break, the chances are greater that dog will at some point refuse a retrieve. That's the whole premise of breaking the dog to fetch. A trainer must find an area/item a dog will refuse to retreive, then "force" is used to overcome that obstacle. This is the key to force breaking. The dog has to learn that it MUST retrieve what you tell it to, when you tell it to.....no if's and's or but's. Fetch means fetch. When a dog figures out that when you say "fetch", it HAS to do it then the dog is broke. This is a difficult process with lots of highs and lows.

A force broke dog is a dog that will retrieve what you tell it to. The dog has learned he has no other alternative, he must obey the command or you will physically make the dog complete the task. After much preserverence by the trainer most dogs with succomb to that fact. You are basically breaking the will of the dog and making him submit to your command, remember a command is NOT a request.

It all sounds kinda harsh, but in reality, when a dog finally figures it out, they will be waging their tail with every retrieve no matter what it is...a tire iron, a quarter, keys, pop cans, birds....etc....

Most dogs truly want to please their handlers, it's just that sometimes they want to do what they want to do, not what you want them to do. A force broke dog does what you want it to do whether he wants to or not, and before long, they realize doing what you want them to makes you happy. For a dog, when you are happy they are happy....kinda like a household....when mamma's happy, everyones happy!

Bottom line...you and your dog are going through a very normal stage that when overcome will give you a better dog.

Many trainers will tell you that the harder the dog breaks, the better. It just seems to get ingrained in their little heads a bit better.

How old is your dog? I'm guessing about 13 months or younger? The younger the dog, the more it will "lose" it's head with distractions. Older dogs have better concentration and seem to focus better on any given task.

Good luck! Keep in contact with your trainer, learn what to do and what not to do, consider joining a dog club, keep learning and training and all your hardwork will pay off.

Keep us posted! We are all here for the same reason you are.....to help and learn and make our dogs the best they can be!


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Griffman, you made it quite a bit more clear to me. I now understand I have a dog that is obedient with fetch, but not FF, or broke, as you put it. I think I might have been in a little bit of denial. Thanks for clearing that up. I just hope the trainer will understand this.

You are right, he is about 13 months old. He goes back at the end of this month. I think the trainer's biggest reason for the break was to get his training ponds filled back up with water. I will keep you posted on how it turns out.

Thanks for the help guys.
Adam


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Adam, I wouldn't say you were in denial....I'd just say you didn't fully understand the process.

Now, the best advice I can give you is for you to join a retriever club. When I got my dog, I knew basically nothing about training, but I was lucky to get him from a breeder that was willing to get me and keep me on track! The knowledge you stand to gain from a local club is priceless, it is something you will never regret and you'll make some friends along the way. There is no way in hell I'd have as good a dog as I do if it weren't for the dog club and it's members.

My guess is that your dog didn't refuse the trainer in the situation you described. I think that is one downfall of not breaking your own dog. Initially, the dog learns to obey the trainer, he will now have to learn to obey you 100% of the time with fetch. If/when he doesn't, you will have to physically force him to complete the task. By joining a dog club, there will be experienced trainers around to guide you when you need help after your dog is done with the trainer.

There is nothing wrong with sending your dog to a trainer. Lots of different reasons to do it. BUT, just because the dog was trained doesn't mean he won't need a tune up once in a while. In fact, training should be a daily regimine. It keeps them and us sharp. I think you understand the fact you will need to grab hold of the reins soon, as you have made mention of that.

Like I said before, there is nothing more important about dog training than training yourself first. Look at it like this, you are the teacher, the dog is the student. Now, you wouldn't want an uneducated, inexperienced person schooling your children would you? The same goes for you and the dog. The key is to learn how to be a good teacher, then follow through with what you have learned. By reading, dog clubs, talking to your trainer and others, you will be able to handle whatever the dog throws at you! In the mean time, that's why everyone who posted says to back off the retrieving. While you were doing the right thing....working with your dog....you discovered an issue you are probably not prepared to deal with at this time...Thats ok...no problem! Just back off, and let the trainer deal with it while you start/continue working on your studies for your bachelor degree in dog training!


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

Great Advice Griffman and well explained!!!! :beer:


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

> Now, the best advice I can give you is for you to join a retriever club. When I got my dog, I knew basically nothing about training, but I was lucky to get him from a breeder that was willing to get me and keep me on track! The knowledge you stand to gain from a local club is priceless, it is something you will never regret and you'll make some friends along the way. There is no way in hell I'd have as good a dog as I do if it weren't for the dog club and it's members.


Are there any retreiver clubs in the FM area? What takes place at these clubs; meetings, training sessions , land to work with your dog????? It sounds like something I should look in to.

Thanks
Adam


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Adam, here is a link to various wildlife clubs in the State.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/ndclubs.php

If you don't find what you want there, maybe try sending a PM to hyrdo870 or NDTerminator or some of the other retriever guys.

Oh, by the way the answer to all your questions in your last post is YES!


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## huntcrazy_1 (Mar 7, 2007)

Adam, here is the web site for the North Dakota Retriever Club I,m not a member but wish we had one in the VC area.
http://www.ndrc.org/
I'm trying to get my buddy to join.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

I'd personally, look for a new trainer. A good trainer brings the clients to the kennel and trains them the same as he has trained the dog. Sounds like this guy doesn't realize what force is about. I will *guarantee* you this: _WHEN I FINISHED FF WITH A DOG HE'D RETRIEVE FOR ANYONE ANYWHERE WHEN SENT TO DO IT_. Beware.


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