# the communists are excited



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Apparently there are two groups of people in this country who are feeling really good right about now. One would be Barack Obama supporters. The other would be the US Communist Party. Seriously! The Communist Party headquarters in Manhattan says that "Marxist-Leninism's time has finally come," in light of the recent economic crisis.

One regional party chairman says, "We are very excited, we feel that we are at a turning point ... We can afford to be less on the defensive for the first time since Ronald Reagan, and we can say our word in rebuilding America on a new basis, rebuilding a better world, instead of one based on the greed of the few." Oh gawd, here we go with this "greed" nonsense.

There's another reason why the Communist Party is pumped ... they are working hard to get people to vote. Gosh, I wonder which candidate could have these Communists drooling. *While the Communist Party has not officially endorses Obama for president,they are smarter than that (like all libs they cannot say what they really think or intend to do) a report from the Communist headquarters says that "many staff here wore his picture on lapel buttons, while Republican John McCain was relegated to a box of tissues -- the tissues being pulled through his mouth."*

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3X ... BNRspcdi2g


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Big deal. I am sure that the National Association of Abortion Clinic Bombers is excited about Palin too. Fringe is fringe, regardless of right or left. How relevant is the Communist Party anyways?


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Robert A. Langager said:


> Big deal. I am sure that the National Association of Abortion Clinic Bombers is excited about Palin too. Fringe is fringe, regardless of right or left. How relevant is the Communist Party anyways?


Good point Robert. They will be much more relevant with Obama. He IS a Marxist! Many people just don't what to admitt it.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Robert A. Langager said:


> Big deal. I am sure that the National Association of Abortion Clinic Bombers is excited about Palin too. Fringe is fringe, regardless of right or left. How relevant is the Communist Party anyways?


 :lol: Whats funny is Robert has to invent a fringe group :lol: :lol: the communists are real and support Obama


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Liberal definition of "fringe group".......anyone that doesnt agree with you.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

I'm sure there's an organized group of Fascists somewhere that is not-so-secretly rooting for McCain. Fascists support nationalism, corporatism, totalitarianism, and militarism... Actually, the Klan supports a lot of Fascist ideals... I bet they're bummed McCain's behind. Therefore, McCain's a Klan member.

You guys really need to lay off the Red Scare Kool-Aid. Find me ONE instance where he's said that he believes that capitalism is institutional exploitation of the working class by the owners of the means of production. To believe that the guy is against capitalism is absolutely absurd.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

omegax said:


> I'm sure there's an organized group of Fascists somewhere that is not-so-secretly rooting for McCain. Fascists support nationalism, corporatism, totalitarianism, and militarism... Actually, the Klan supports a lot of Fascist ideals... I bet they're bummed McCain's behind. Therefore, McCain's a Klan member.
> 
> You guys really need to lay off the Red Scare Kool-Aid. Find me ONE instance where he's said that he believes that capitalism is institutional exploitation of the working class by the owners of the means of production. *To believe that the guy is against capitalism is absolutely absurd.*


He absolutely undeniably is against captilism he has espoused marxist ideal and has spent his entirelife influenced by communists and anti capitalists thats factual history not some made up BS like " there a facist group somewhere" that supports John McCain


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Obama's Communist Mentor

AIM Column | By Cliff Kincaid | February 18, 2008

Is "coalition politics" at work in Obama's rise to power?

In his biography of Barack Obama, David Mendell writes about Obama's life as a "secret smoker" and how he "went to great lengths to conceal the habit." But what about Obama's secret political life? It turns out that Obama's childhood mentor, Frank Marshall Davis, was a communist.

In his books, Obama admits attending "socialist conferences" and coming into contact with Marxist literature. But he ridicules the charge of being a "hard-core academic Marxist," which was made by his colorful and outspoken 2004 U.S. Senate opponent, Republican Alan Keyes.

However, through Frank Marshall Davis, Obama had an admitted relationship with someone who was publicly identified as a member of the Communist Party USA (CPUSA). The record shows that Obama was in Hawaii from 1971-1979, where, at some point in time, he developed a close relationship, almost like a son, with Davis, listening to his "poetry" and getting advice on his career path. But Obama, in his book, Dreams From My Father, refers to him repeatedly as just "Frank."

The reason is apparent: Davis was a known communist who belonged to a party subservient to the Soviet Union. In fact, the 1951 report of the Commission on Subversive Activities to the Legislature of the Territory of Hawaii identified him as a CPUSA member. What's more, anti-communist congressional committees, including the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC), accused Davis of involvement in several communist-front organizations.

Trevor Loudon, a New Zealand-based libertarian activist, researcher and blogger, noted evidence that "Frank" was Frank Marshall Davis in a posting in March of 2007.

Obama's communist connection adds to mounting public concern about a candidate who has come out of virtually nowhere, with a brief U.S. Senate legislative record, to become the Democratic Party frontrunner for the U.S. presidency. In the latest Real Clear Politics poll average, Obama beats Republican John McCain by almost four percentage points.

AIM recently disclosed that Obama has well-documented socialist connections, which help explain why he sponsored a "Global Poverty Act" designed to send hundreds of billions of dollars of U.S. foreign aid to the rest of the world, in order to meet U.N. demands. The bill has passed the House and a Senate committee, and awaits full Senate action.

But the Communist Party connection through Davis is even more ominous. Decades ago, the CPUSA had tens of thousands of members, some of them covert agents who had penetrated the U.S. Government. It received secret subsidies from the old Soviet Union.

You won't find any of this discussed in the David Mendell book, Obama: From Promise to Power. It is typical of the superficial biographies of Obama now on the market. Secret smoking seems to be Obama's most controversial activity. At best, Mendell and the liberal media describe Obama as "left-leaning."

But you will find it briefly discussed, sort of, in Obama's own book, Dreams From My Father. He writes about "a poet named Frank," who visited them in Hawaii, read poetry, and was full of "hard-earned knowledge" and advice. Who was Frank? Obama only says that he had "some modest notoriety once," was "a contemporary of Richard Wright and Langston Hughes during his years in Chicago..." but was now "pushing eighty." He writes about "Frank and his old Black Power dashiki self" giving him advice before he left for Occidental College in 1979 at the age of 18.

This "Frank" is none other than Frank Marshall Davis, the black communist writer now considered by some to be in the same category of prominence as Maya Angelou and Alice Walker. In the summer/fall 2003 issue of African American Review, James A. Miller of George Washington University reviews a book by John Edgar Tidwell, a professor at the University of Kansas, about Davis's career, and notes, "In Davis's case, his political commitments led him to join the American Communist Party during the middle of World War II-even though he never publicly admitted his Party membership." Tidwell is an expert on the life and writings of Davis.

Is it possible that Obama did not know who Davis was when he wrote his book, Dreams From My Father, first published in 1995? That's not plausible since Obama refers to him as a contemporary of Richard Wright and Langston Hughes and says he saw a book of his black poetry.

The communists knew who "Frank" was, and they know who Obama is. In fact, one academic who travels in communist circles understands the significance of the Davis-Obama relationship.

Professor Gerald Horne, a contributing editor of the Communist Party journal Political Affairs, talked about it during a speech last March at the reception of the Communist Party USA archives at the Tamiment Library at New York University. The remarks are posted online under the headline, "Rethinking the History and Future of the Communist Party."

Horne, a history professor at the University of Houston, noted that Davis, who moved to Honolulu from Kansas in 1948 "at the suggestion of his good friend Paul Robeson," came into contact with Barack Obama and his family and became the young man's mentor, influencing Obama's sense of identity and career moves. Robeson, of course, was the well-known black actor and singer who served as a member of the CPUSA and apologist for the old Soviet Union. Davis had known Robeson from his time in Chicago.

As Horne describes it, Davis "befriended" a "Euro-American family" that had "migrated to Honolulu from Kansas and a young woman from this family eventually had a child with a young student from Kenya East Africa who goes by the name of Barack Obama, who retracing the steps of Davis eventually decamped to Chicago."

It was in Chicago that Obama became a "community organizer" and came into contact with more far-left political forces, including the Democratic Socialists of America, which maintains close ties to European socialist groups and parties through the Socialist International (SI), and two former members of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), William Ayers and Carl Davidson.

The SDS laid siege to college campuses across America in the 1960s, mostly in order to protest the Vietnam War, and spawned the terrorist Weather Underground organization. Ayers was a member of the terrorist group and turned himself in to authorities in 1981. He is now a college professor and served with Obama on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago. Davidson is now a figure in the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, an offshoot of the old Moscow-controlled CPUSA, and helped organize the 2002 rally where Obama came out against the Iraq War.

Both communism and socialism trace their roots to Karl Marx, co-author of the Communist Manifesto, who endorsed the first meeting of the Socialist International, then called the "First International." According to Pierre Mauroy, president of the SI from 1992-1996, "It was he [Marx] who formally launched it, gave the inaugural address and devised its structure..."

Apparently unaware that Davis had been publicly named as a CPUSA member, Horne said only that Davis "was certainly in the orbit of the CP [Communist Party]-if not a member..."

In addition to Tidwell's book, Black Moods: Collected Poems of Frank Marshall Davis, confirming Davis's Communist Party membership, another book, The New Red *****: The Literary Left and African American Poetry, 1930-1946, names Davis as one of several black poets who continued to publish in CPUSA-supported publications after the 1939 Hitler-Stalin non-aggression pact. The author, James Edward Smethurst, associate professor of Afro-American studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, says that Davis, however, would later claim that he was "deeply troubled" by the pact.

While blacks such as Richard Wright left the CPUSA, it is not clear if or when Davis ever left the party.

However, Obama writes in Dreams From My Father that he saw "Frank" only a few days before he left Hawaii for college, and that Davis seemed just as radical as ever. Davis called college "An advanced degree in compromise" and warned Obama not to forget his "people" and not to "start believing what they tell you about equal opportunity and the American way and all that ####." Davis also complained about foot problems, the result of "trying to force African feet into European shoes," Obama wrote.

For his part, Horne says that Obama's giving of credit to Davis will be important in history. "At some point in the future, a teacher will add to her syllabus Barack's memoir and instruct her students to read it alongside Frank Marshall Davis' equally affecting memoir, Living the Blues and when that day comes, I'm sure a future student will not only examine critically the Frankenstein monsters that US imperialism created in order to subdue Communist parties but will also be moved to come to this historic and wonderful archive in order to gain insight on what has befallen this complex and intriguing planet on which we reside," he said.

Dr. Kathryn Takara, a professor of Interdisciplinary Studies at the University of Hawaii at Manoa who also confirms that Davis is the "Frank" in Obama's book, did her dissertation on Davis and spent much time with him between 1972 until he passed away in 1987.

In an analysis posted online, she notes that Davis, who was a columnist for the Honolulu Record, brought "an acute sense of race relations and class struggle throughout America and the world" and that he openly discussed subjects such as American imperialism, colonialism and exploitation. She described him as a "socialist realist" who attacked the work of the House Un-American Activities Committee.

Davis, in his own writings, had said that Robeson and Harry Bridges, the head of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) and a secret member of the CPUSA, had suggested that he take a job as a columnist with the Honolulu Record "and see if I could do something for them." The ILWU was organizing workers there and Robeson's contacts were "passed on" to Davis, Takara writes.

Takara says that Davis "espoused freedom, radicalism, solidarity, labor unions, due process, peace, affirmative action, civil rights, ***** History week, and true Democracy to fight imperialism, colonialism, and white supremacy. He urged coalition politics."

Is "coalition politics" at work in Obama's rise to power?

Trevor Loudon, the New Zealand-based blogger who has been analyzing the political forces behind Obama and specializes in studying the impact of Marxist and leftist political organizations, notes that Frank Chapman, a CPUSA supporter, has written a letter to the party newspaper hailing the Illinois senator's victory in the Iowa caucuses.

"Obama's victory was more than a progressive move; it was a dialectical leap ushering in a qualitatively new era of struggle," Chapman wrote. "Marx once compared revolutionary struggle with the work of the mole, who sometimes burrows so far beneath the ground that he leaves no trace of his movement on the surface. This is the old revolutionary 'mole,' not only showing his traces on the surface but also breaking through."


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

I didn't know Joe McCarthy had a website... The "ties" are all guilt by association and hearsay. Being against capitalism would require being against private enterprise, not just hypothetically raising taxes and instituting a few social programs.

Do you really want to insinuate that because somebody likes you, you must agree with them? At that point, McCain must agree with Hagee... Remember that guy?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I dont have to insinuate anything, they like him because he believes and espouses the socialist communist point of view.

Its just that straight forward and simple and he has many written and verbal proofs of that.

To me its remarkable that even when you can watch youtube vidoes of his marxist statements you will refuse to admit he is a marxist.


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## sevendogs (Sep 19, 2003)

Bobm, you are frozen in a cold war era. Look around. The Communist Party of USA is dead, because it lost its lifeline from the former Soviet Union. Your language is outdated.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

sevendogs said:


> Bobm, you are frozen in a cold war era. Look around. The Communist Party of USA is dead, because it lost its lifeline from the former Soviet Union. Your language is outdated.


Its not dead its morfed into our educational system. And Putin will try to revive it and then of course there is China....

Its lying in wait. :sniper:

Good to see you back on the froum though, I was wondering if you could provide some help on the greyhound thread :beer:


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

BobM, 
You put too much in your posts. The left has no attention span beyond 30 second sound bites.  
Proven fact that once you bring up facts about Obama the thread turns to "Chicken little" and attacks on the messenger.

Here are some more facts:


> Did you know that Mohamed Atta, the 9/11 ring leader, had a valid Florida driver's license?
> Did you know 13 of the 19 hijackers had obtained valid driver's licenses? Armed with these licenses, eight of the hijackers even registered to vote!
> 
> Here is the shocking fact: Obama strongly supports giving illegal aliens in America driver's licenses.
> ...


You either agree with the idea of "if it breathes, it votes" or you don't.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

JustAnotherDog said:


> Here are some more facts:
> 
> 
> > Doesn't he remember what happened on 9/11? More than 3,000 Americans were murdered.


Im starting to think he was in on it.


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

> Obama Had Close Ties to Top Saudi Adviser at Early Age
> 
> Wednesday, September 3, 2008 5:58 PM
> 
> ...


[...]



> But al-Mansour's sponsorship of Obama as a prospective Harvard law student is important for another reason beyond his Islamic and anti-American rhetoric and early Black Panther ties.


[]



> For Jesse Lee Peterson, founder of the Los Angeles-based Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny (BOND), these latest revelations about Obama's ties to Saudi financiers were an important wake-up call.
> 
> "To me, this opened up more questions about Barack Obama and his relationship to the Muslim world," Peterson told Newsmax.
> 
> ...


For some reason, Obama has refused to release any information from his college days. (as well as all of his campaign contributors as McCain has done) Never has the USA had a presidential candidate with so little known about them.

http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/obama_sutton_saudi/2008/09/03/127490.html?s=al&promo_code=692E-1


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

I did notice that just today John McCain has started referring to Obama's intentions using the word "Socialist".

That is a very, very good stride for McCain to hit on and it's 100% truthful.


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## sevendogs (Sep 19, 2003)

Bobm said:


> sevendogs said:
> 
> 
> > Bobm, you are frozen in a cold war era. Look around. The Communist Party of USA is dead, because it lost its lifeline from the former Soviet Union. Your language is outdated.
> ...


Bobm, thank you for welcoming me. I know about marxism and communism more then any of you,because I emigrated from the former Soveit Union 30 years ago. I was taught it in school (not by my choice). Communism is dead. Islamic fanatics are a major threat to civilized world, not communism. Putin and Russia are not communists any more, this is a major important change in the world. Even in China it is living its last sighs. By the way, our President put us in embarassing position by borrowing a lot of money from China (!?) Are you not afraid? I am scared, indeed.


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

> By the way, our President put us in embarassing position by borrowing a lot of money from China (!?) Are you not afraid? I am scared, indeed.


Just like fannie & freddie are Bush's fault too?

Gimme a break!


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

> In an interview published in 1995, Ayers characterized his political beliefs at that time and in the 1960s and 1970s: "*I am a radical, Leftist, small 'c' communist* &#8230; [Laughs] *Maybe I'm the last communist who is willing to admit it.* [Laughs]* We have always been small 'c' communists in the sense that we were never in the [Communist] party and never Stalinists. The ethics of Communism still appeal to me. I don't like Lenin as much as the early Marx.* I also like Henry David Thoreau, Mother Jones and Jane Addams [&#8230;]"


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Sevendogs I always enjoy your posts and your point of view. :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The communists are excited because socialism is a huge jump from capitalism towards communism. How do you give 95% of the people a tax brake when 40% pay no taxes? Simple, you tax the heck out of 60% and write a check to the 40%. Clinton did this and called it income tax credits. You take from those who earn and give to those who do not. Obama says spreading the wealth. Well, that is different words, but it means the same thing as redistribution of wealth. That is socialism. For those who can't understand that, or refuse to understand it debate is a waste of breath. It is my belief that even the most dense can understand it, so that leaves the bitter reality that they want socialism. 
Oh, and I disagree that communism is dead. They don't think so, and neither do I. It's foolish to under estimate. Perhaps it's often lucky for conservatives that liberals under estimate. For example we heard how Al Gore was going to walk all over Bush in the debates. Then we heard how Kerry was going to walk all over Bush in the debates. Then Rayen said he couldn't wait for the debates between Obama and McCain, and he was real excited about Biden and Palin. Palin was going to look like a fool right? Where is the laughing icon?


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

> The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property.
> 
> (Karl Marx)





> Bobm, you are frozen in a cold war era. Look around. The Communist Party of USA is dead, because it lost its lifeline from the former Soviet Union. Your language is outdated.
> 
> (The honorable sevendogs)





> "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."
> Barry Hussein Obama


The American Communist Labor Union is still around, they just changed their name to the ACLU.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

I just thought the communists changed their name to democrats.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Then Rayen said he couldn't wait for the debates between Obama and McCain, and he was real excited about Biden and Palin. Palin was going to look like a fool right? Where is the laughing icon?


Newsflash.

McCain has looked like a fool in the debates. He's lost every one, and the last one was a draw, when he needed a homerun.

Palin did even worse. We all know that the only reason she wasn't completely painted a fool, is due to the debate format, and the fact Biden didn't want to beat up on a girl when he was the obvious master on foreign policy, federal experience, and knowledge of all the facts and the correct pronunciation of names/places.

Imagine what the debate had been like if the format from the last Presidential debate had been used. If Palin were asked unscripted questions and was not allowed to filibuster and roll back to her talking points, lest the moderator call her on her non answer.... Hmm me thinks that she would have been completely flustered at best, and likely have melted into a nervous breakdown live on national TV at worst as soon as she started making foolish gaffes. If the debate were also structured where Biden was allowed (and actually did) go off on her, and the Obama ticket needed to put the pressure on her, that would not have been a pretty sight, and I think you know it too...

Face it Plainsman. The Obama/Biden campaign hasn't had to hit back harder, as they have enjoyed the upper hand lead throughout the race when the debates rolled around. Hence they could play offense and not appear desperate compared to the Republican ticket.

All the nasty lies, attack ads and dirty politics have been almost completely been the domain of the Republican Party. The general public has grown tired of the same old politics and those trying to wage the same old attack ad wars. They are tired of the status quo.

It will all be over in a few weeks thankfully.

Yes where is that laughing icon ?


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

and the fact Biden didn't want to beat up on a girl when he was the obvious master on foreign policy, federal experience, and knowledge of all the facts and the correct pronunciation of names/places.

yes, Biden is a genius, "a 3 letter word, jobs!"..... :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> All the nasty lies, attack ads and dirty politics have been almost completely been the domain of the Republican Party.


You must have forgotten all your posts about Palin.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ryan, how about the socialism part of my post? Are you going to address it? Please do.


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

> All the nasty lies, attack ads and dirty politics have been almost completely been the domain of the Republican Party.


Has anyone else noticed that nobody has countered the info passed on about Obama except to call them "nasty lies, attack ads and dirty politics" ? or try to draw similarities to McCain? It's like they are totally ignoring Obama's past because he can talk so nice and suave.

The true test of a mans character is his past history or his comments about that history and those that hide their history have no character.

Come clean, Mr. Obama.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> > All the nasty lies, attack ads and dirty politics have been almost completely been the domain of the Republican Party.
> 
> 
> You must have forgotten all your posts about Palin.


You see.. I was going to put a disclaimer on my post, but I figured (it appears erroneously), that you would see that I said the Obama campaign would not do that, not citizens or political sites.

My posts on Palin are personal observations. Seems like lots of folks, even many hard core Republicans have had those same observations every time she has tried to speak on her own two feet.

I'm sure as soon as Palin was nominated that the Democratic ticket had a celebration. They wouldn't need to make one attack ad. All of the political talk shows laughter and desire to "vet" her themselves would do the job for them. Heck.. all they needed to do is let her speak, which the Republican ticket quickly learned too... hence they forbid her to do press conferences, take questions, have open forum debates, etc..

Truly comical stuff.

No Plainsman. I was referring to the political TV ads.

But thanks for another laugh.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Ryan, how about the socialism part of my post? Are you going to address it? Please do.


I can't right now... too much to go into at work and give a substantive answer...

If I forget, please feel free to PM me this evening, and I"ll try to do it when I get home tonight....


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> My posts on Palin are personal observations.


No kidding. I didn't know you knew her personally.  Sorry for thinking you were posting drivel you found on the internet.


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

> Has anyone else noticed that nobody has countered the info passed on about Obama except to call them "nasty lies, attack ads and dirty politics" ? or try to draw similarities to McCain? It's like they are totally ignoring Obama's past because he can talk so nice and suave.


*I'm still waiting*

You can start here:



> From Dreams of My Father: 'I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites.'





> From Dreams of My Father : 'I found a solace in nursing a pervasive sense of grievance and animosity against my mother's race.'





> From Dreams of My Father: 'There was something about him that made me wary, a little too sure of himself, maybe. And white.'





> From Dreams of My Father: 'It remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names.'





> From Dreams of My Father: 'I never emulate white men and brown men whose fates didn't speak to my own. It was into my father's image, the black man, son of Africa , that I'd packed all the attributes I sought in myself , the attributes of Martin and Malcolm, DuBois and Mandela.'





> From Audacity of Hope: 'I will stand with the Muslims should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.'


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> > My posts on Palin are personal observations.
> 
> 
> No kidding. I didn't know you knew her personally.  Sorry for thinking you were posting drivel you found on the internet.


Sorry I rarely review Faux News err... I mean Fox News. They proved how slanted they are after every debate and every poll. I personally watched the debates, have watched video clips, and read articles written before Palin was a candidate, in order to remove as much "bias" from my sources as possible. I don't need slant to review her resume. Those are pretty much hard facts. I don't need to read slanted news. I can watch footage about how she arrives at thoughts myself with her on camera interviews.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

JustAnotherDog said:


> > Has anyone else noticed that nobody has countered the info passed on about Obama except to call them "nasty lies, attack ads and dirty politics" ? or try to draw similarities to McCain? It's like they are totally ignoring Obama's past because he can talk so nice and suave.
> 
> 
> *I'm still waiting*


*yawn*

And you can keep waiting.

Someone new joins the party late, and we are all supposed to appease them with regurgitating previous discussions. Sorry man. If you are looking for me to do it, I already have, and they are old tired talking points.

Noone who is on the fence voting cares about any of that kind of stuff. It's old news. Try talking about the economy or something that matters.

The character assassination stuff is so last month.

Moving on...


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Those are pretty much hard facts.


I would like something more substantial than what you consider hard facts. In the past it has been my experience that they have lacked nearly any credability. You have a hole to crawl out of in the credability department. It was shoveled very deep with that post about the disabled child being her daughters.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

R y a n said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan, how about the socialism part of my post? Are you going to address it? Please do.
> ...


It's no big deal, but a voter should be able to explain socialism right off the top of their head without talking to someone else or searching the internet for talking points.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> > Those are pretty much hard facts.
> 
> 
> I would like something more substantial than what you consider hard facts. In the past it has been my experience that they have lacked nearly any credability. You have a hole to crawl out of in the credability department. It was shoveled very deep with that post about the disabled child being her daughters.


right. nice try at minimilization. So in the several hundred posts I have with a TON of linked references across the board on a variety of topics, you choose to point out one topic where I went a bit far? I simply posted an article that was being talked about. The article was later withdrawn, and I agreed it went too far. Now what about the other 200 issues I've discussed since that time?

MANY on here have done the same thing with FAR less proof, yet "they" are "credible" So based on your lofty standards of credibility, anyone posting has to have a 100% completely perfect track record, lest they be marginalized.

Heck you even explain away hard facts that are the persons own words on camera. Even when those "facts" are shown to you, you instead start filibustering some other issue...

Interesting indeed.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> R y a n said:
> 
> 
> > Plainsman said:
> ...


lmfao

well i guess i won't indulge you then. It's becoming readily apparent that you would rather subtely attack me than wait for a substantive response. I guess it is far more fun to jump on an off the cuff reply I might make at work, when I don't have time to sit and reply all day, once I make a longer reply.

You see Plainsman that is the reason I wont reply on certain topics that I haven't sat and thought much about. Especially a loaded topic like socialism. Seeing as how many people on this forum would love to prove me wrong, as their Presidential prospects aren't looking bright, I won't add fodder to the fire and discuss every little aspect of side tangents on topics. It doesn't serve any purpose for me to expand on topics like this...

I'm sure you can understand where I'm coming from.

Have a great day.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I simply would like to hear a liberal tell me why taking money away from some (and in Obamas words spreading the wealth) and giving it to others is not socialism. It either is or is not socialism. No tough question. My ten year old grandson could answer it in 30 seconds flat.


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

From the Liberal Left Playbook:



> When the message can't be explained, attack the messenger.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Plainsman said:


> I simply would like to hear a liberal tell me why taking money away from some (and in Obamas words spreading the wealth) and giving it to others is not socialism. It either is or is not socialism. No tough question. My ten year old grandson could answer it in 30 seconds flat.


Socialism is more than fiddling with the tax rates across the brackets. Socialism is collective ownership of enterprise and an end of the free market. It's not just taxing the rich to give to the poor. It's nationalizing all the industries. It's a much tougher to sell to convince people that Obama's a socialist when they know what socialism actually is. When you can find me evidence that he plans on nationalizing manufacturing, then we'll talk about "Obama the Socialist".

Everybody points to the graduated income tax as evidence of "socialism", but if you guys are so against it, you'd better write Steve Forbes' name in... the graduated income tax survived from 2000-2006, and it would survive a hypothetical McCain administration too. Despite all the bellyaching about the system coming crashing down because the poor get all the breaks, people would still rather be rich than not pay taxes.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

From each according to his ability........... Translation, tax the wealthy because they can afford it.

To each according to his need...... Translation, give that money to the "poor" people because they_______________ (dont have a job, have more kids than they can feed, chose a car payment over medical insurance, etc)


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

when you are a socialist you see nothing wrong with it, every little step in the direction is another nail in the coffin of capitalism

Also do watch the news this country just nationlized its banking system. All these these are increments.

Obama is a marxist period that is undeniable, Pelosi and Reid are suspect at best


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

You only need one thing on the commie/not commie checklist: free enterprise. Not going to nationalize business = not a commie! It's that easy.

The banking industry is a different problem. They're being lent money and using equity as collateral, AND it's voluntary. That's not even "nationalization"!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

omegax said:


> You only need one thing on the commie/not commie checklist: free enterprise. Not going to nationalize business = not a commie! It's that easy.
> 
> The banking industry is a different problem. They're being lent money and using equity as collateral, AND it's voluntary. That's not even "nationalization"!


but but but but... awww c'mon!

If we throw enough cow feces at the wall some of this stuff has just gotta fit doesn't it?

**whisper** socialist/communist/marxist its all the same really... right? Yayyy!! Let's spread some more fear of the unknown! **whisper**

:eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Pelosi has already suggested we nationalize the oil refineries. I would think you guys would do better. After all some have PMed me telling me what intellectuals they are, and that they can't find anyone intellectual enough to discuss things with (interpretation = I'm stupid). They say they are starved for intellectual exchange. For someone so taken with themselves I would think they would see the socialism in taking from those who work for their income and giving it to those who do not. 
Bob, some choose booze over house payments. Some choose drugs over health care. Some blow more than I make at the casino's right here at the closest reservation. 
I would like to hear from some of these brilliant people how you give tax cuts to 95% of the people when 40% don't pay taxes. Don't tell me how brilliant you are, show me. Like Bob said if you can't see it your perhaps socialist.
I don't see many succesful people voting for Obama. I see a lot of people thinking they are going to get a free ride.

Oh, I see another post while I was writting. It isn't fear of the unknown Ryan, because for many of us it isn't the unknown. Speak for yourself. By the way Ryan I'm surprised your posting with being to busy to answer the Socialist question. Lets get Mr. Rogers to say BS.


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

If the government controls every single aspect of your business and then limits the amount of money you can make in that business, do you think you still own it?

In name only.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Oh, I see another post while I was writting. It isn't fear of the unknown Ryan, because for many of us it isn't the unknown. Speak for yourself. By the way Ryan I'm surprised your posting with being to busy to answer the Socialist question. Lets get Mr. Rogers to say BS.


Sorry Plainsman.

It's my lunch hour, and I have a process running on a server that I am babysitting. Even given that I now have time, I indicated earlier that I wasn't going to touch the subject after the last outburst. I'll no longer indulge the wild array of accusations you've been making.

You've really changed how you post in the last few weeks. Have you noticed?

My previous post was in reference to a new pattern of *whisper* campaigns that the GOP has intensified over the past weeks. These types of posts are simply a continuing pattern of the same types of things, being stoked by internet forums. People come ask the same question, trying to prove "points", and implant seeds of doubt in less informed gullible forum members. The phenemonea is being noted across the country....

This whisper campaign witch hunt (over who Obama is) has really gotten out of control.... I refuse to continue stoking fires. It doesn't really matter anymore.

Have a great day.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> This whisper campaign witch hunt (over who Obama is) has really gotten out of control.... I refuse to continue stoking fires. It doesn't really matter anymore.


It's my opinion you can't answer them. Yes, my posts have changed, I'm holding your feet to the fire on the things you post. You want proof from others yet post a lot of things that turn out wrong. The difference is many of us post things that turn out wrong, but admit it. Come on man up. Just on one thing. Admit you were wrong about the mother to Palins handicap child. One thing would give me hope.  I think I posted four items from factcheck back when you really went off the deep end. Like Palin pushing creationism in the Alaskan schools.

Simply tell me how you give tax relief to people paying no taxes. How is that possible without redistribution of wealth. Remember Obama said it was spreading the wealth. Either way you word it it means the same thing. Can you face what your man really is?

Volume posting can not take the place of quality posts.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> > This whisper campaign witch hunt (over who Obama is) has really gotten out of control.... I refuse to continue stoking fires. It doesn't really matter anymore.
> 
> 
> It's my opinion you can't answer them. Yes, my posts have changed, I'm holding your feet to the fire on the things you post. You want proof from others yet post a lot of things that turn out wrong. The difference is many of us post things that turn out wrong, but admit it. Come on man up. Just on one thing. Admit you were wrong about the mother to Palins handicap child. One thing would give me hope.


Plainsman I stated in that thread that I was wrong. Didn't you see it? I'll say it again. I was wrong. I manned up the very moment they pulled the source story. Is that what this is all about?

Take a moment, and go back and look.

Ryan


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Simply tell me how you give tax relief to people paying no taxes. How is that possible without redistribution of wealth. Remember Obama said it was spreading the wealth. Either way you word it it means the same thing. Can you face what your man really is?


What is a tax credit Plainsman? Anyone who has studied his plan, discusses those at length. Are those not the methodology by which folks will be able to pay less taxes, and thereby achieve a cut? For those not paying taxes, they already receive some form of welfare. They are ALREADY getting tax relief, by seeing that they pay even less in taxes.

There you have it. My thoughts.. concise.. off the cuff and quick. Don't expect me to continue answering more and more followups... this topic bores me to tears...



Plainsman said:


> Volume posting can not take the place of quality posts.


Now that right there is funny looking at some of the Republican leaning posts made on here in the last 3 months. :lol:

I might have posted quite a few times, but everything was spot on and made a valid point... and the majority also had reference links... it's just that many with conservative leanings didn't like stories that didn't set well with their delicate sensibilities... or were written by some entity that the other side had to find fault with some perceived "bias"

8)


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Putting Plainsman and R Y A N in a room together would be a very interesting thing to witness. Wit and stubborneness mixed into one. With some intellegence in there too.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Thanks, I'll take your word for it.

The reason I am forceful on the socialist issue is I am trying to make you people admit what Obama is. You turn a blind eye to it because you want him so bad, but you will not admit his faults. He is socialist beyond a doubt. He also has the most liberal voting record in congress. Is this what you guys really want? I mean is way far left what you really want?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> but everything was spot on and made a valid point


Like Ronald Reagan would say "there you go again". That's why I didn't remember you admitting you were wrong about Palin. Your posts were not spot on, they were spot bs. She didn't demand creationism be tought in the schools, she didn't fire the librarian, etc.



> What is a tax credit Plainsman?


You have to be kidding. Your talking about these things and you don't know what a tax credit is. During the Clinton reign of terror he taxed the working and gave it to those who paid no tax. He said it was a tax cut. You see he gave money to people who paid no taxes and called it an income tax credit. If Obama is going to give 95% of the people a tax cut how will he do it? He has to follow that same principle and give money to those who paid no taxes. He may call it something different than an income tax credit, but that doesn't change it's socialist foundation.

You have shown us how little value you have of old people, but for those of us who have been around for 60 years we have watched the advancement of socialism around the world. We know what Obama is, and no matter how many times you tell us how brilliant you are we still are going to rely on our experience.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Giving a tax credit to a person that already pays nothing in taxes is relief. Its the same kind of relief a morphine addict receives when receiving a dose to cure pain he isnt feeling....

I know a guy, a fairly smart guy, that also happens to be pretty damn lazy. He has it figured out to the dollar how much money he needs to make and still get the maximum check from the government. This guy has actually quit jobs so he could stop his income.

Does everybody do that? no, but some do. Its human nature to look for the best deal.

Look at Hawaii. Seven months ago they started a socialistic healthcare program for children. It went bankrupt! Why? Well the people who could afford their own healthcare stopped buying it because they could get it for free. The State government only planned on financing the healthcare of those that didnt already have insurance.

Hawaii is a pretty liberal state is it not? Lets look at this a little deeper....

Child healthcare, some have it some dont.
Socialist government, elected by people that believe socialism isnt all bad decides to give healthcare to "needy" children.
Socialist public says "HEY!!! We dont have to spend money taking care of our kids, someone else can do it for us!"
Socialist public bleeds state program dry in less than a year.

I find irony in the fact that a segment of society so hell bent on providing for the needy jumped at a chance to become the needy themselves. In fact, you'd almost say it was a capitalist idea, these people looking to save money for other uses....


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> > What is a tax credit Plainsman?
> 
> 
> You have to be kidding. Your talking about these things and you don't know what a tax credit is.


 :roll: Yes Plainsman I know what a tax credit is. I wasn't asking it like that... I was answering your question by asking what it was, insinuating that there was your answer staring you in the face.


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

Don't see any Democrats signing on this letter back in 2006 attempting to bring changes to the financial situation they could see building.

Dodd, Frank & Obama were too busy collecting checks from Freddie & Fannie to make any changes.


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