# My friend is like "no one should have a gun."



## dongleeee (Mar 26, 2012)

I had this debate earlier on today with my friend and I need good points to beat him in this conversation. 
He was saying civilians in this country shouldn't have guns because of instances like school massacre or any other crimes. He was saying that country like Japan has very low crime rate since they totally banned the personal gun usage. It's not only Japan but also many countries in the world totally ban the personal gun usage and still have a safe society. 
I was telling him there has been many studies showing how possessing guns by individuals has decreased the crime rate, but my friend was like that statistics was recorded like 40 years ago and the decreasing crime rate was a trend all over the world not only in US. Regardless of the possessing gun law the crime rate would have decreased as the world was getting better. 
How can I possibly beat him in this argument?


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Interesting 1st post.
Consider sending him to Japan.Or,you could do your own research and answer him.


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## H2OfowlND (Feb 10, 2003)

Sir, 
I'm stationed in the UK, and since owning a gun is a very difficult process over here, people resort to knives. It is illegal to possess a locking knife or any knife over a certain length. Just because a society 'bans' firearms, doesn't mean it is safe. There are still people out there that want to cause harm, they just find another way to do it. Almost weekly you'll hear of knifings in public places. Teenagers killing other teens just for a pair of shoes and what do they use? A knife. Police over here wear special vests with neck collars to protect the area around the base of the neck and collar bone.

Just something to think about.
H2OfowlND
MH
USAF


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## driggy (Apr 26, 2005)

Why not have your freind explain how home invasions, a crime that didn't even show up, became Austrailia's number one crime, once guns were taken away. People there are being robbed and killed right in their homes. Japan is not as safe as he is making out. Biggest differences are people are embarressed if caught, they don't want others to really know what crimes occur in their country, police actually try to stop crime, and society doesn't just let them go "because they have had a troubled childhhod".

Look up John(?) Lott. He's done extensive research about the subject.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Tell your friend there are as many countries or more that restrict gun ownership that are NOT safe. And countries in gun restrictive Europe also have "school shootings". A quick search on the web will have some examples. Some countries that REQUIRE gun ownership have very low violent crime rates. A lot of it depends on the makeup of your society. There are far more school shootings in the US now than there were 50 or 60 years ago dispite the fact that 50-60 years ago many teenagers often hunted before and/or after school and had guns in their vehicles AT school. I partially blame political correctness. Our society has gotten so touchy feely that every time someones feelings get hurt it is a reason to kill. FYI if someone wants to kill a lot of people there are a lot easier ways to do it than with a gun and everything you need is easily found at the local stores.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

Japan is not that safe. They still have people who go around killing a lot of people. Our media never reports it. For the record when you get a slash from a sword or machete you usually do not live long.

There are far worse things than firearms.
All per 100,000
Heart disease 190.88
Cancer 178.37
Stroke 42.24
Chronic long disease	40.76
Accidents	39.97
Alzheimer's	22.68
Diabetes	22.54	
Influenza and Pneumonia	16.22
Nephritis kidney disease	14.55
Blood poisoning	10.97
Suicide	11.26
Liver disease	9.11
Hypertension /renal	7.38
Parkinson's disease	6.37
Homicide	6.10

Firearms 10.2 (includes accidents, suicides, and murders)

Yeah we have some real problems we need to take care of before we get all high and mighty thinking getting rid of firearms will solve all of our problems. Hell getting rid of all fast food places and enforcing a a ban on presertives would probably get accidents to be the top of the list.

The pen is mightier than the sword, but only if the pen is held by Chuck Norris.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I remember a few years ago there was a show on tv, I think CBS. Anyway, they were talking about the number of people killed with guns in the U S, Canada, England, Brazil, etc. They should have talked about the murder rate, not the firearms death rate. 
Here is what they did. They counted all firearms deaths in the U S. It didn't make any difference if it was self defense, they even counted police shooting criminals. What they failed to mention was that our murder rate was comparable or lower than all countries they talked about. In Brazil for instance the most often cause of death was husbands beating their wives ----to death. The second highest cause of death was wives poisoning thier husbands.  In England poison was also still common. It may be an old old cliche, but it's still true that people kill people. Does it really matter if it's a gun, knife, poison, hit and run with a car, or run through a wood chipper?


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## BirdJ (Aug 24, 2011)

Is your friend from CA. uke:


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## specialpatrolgroup (Jan 16, 2009)

Just because someone doesnt wish to pratice their rights doesnt give justification for oposing them. But really if he is of that narrow of a mindset chances are anything you say is just going to go in one ear and out the ohter.


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

not much of a friend. send him to somalia if he doesn't think he should own a gun.


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

The first amendment of our constitution wouldn't exist, without the second amendment to back it up.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

One of the arguments against guns is that they are not a necessity.... neither is alcohol...yet evey year 75,000-80,00 people die from alcohol (2 1/2 times the number of gun deaths).... 16,000-18,000 of those people are killed in alcohol related crashes. Ad on to that those that are killed by someone who was using alcohol and you match or exceed the number of gun related murders. While alcohol related death may not be intentional that should make them even easier to avoid. Guns are just a tool. People were using rocks and sharp sticks to kill long before guns were invented. Take a way guns and you may reduce the death rate... temporarily .....until those who want to kill adopt another method...........


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## BirdJ (Aug 24, 2011)

dakotashooter2 said:


> One of the arguments against guns is that they are not a necessity.... neither is alcohol...yet evey year 75,000-80,00 people die from alcohol (2 1/2 times the number of gun deaths).... 16,000-18,000 of those people are killed in alcohol related crashes. Ad on to that those that are killed by someone who was using alcohol and you match or exceed the number of gun related murders. While alcohol related death may not be intentional that should make them even easier to avoid. Guns are just a tool. People were using rocks and sharp sticks to kill long before guns were invented. Take a way guns and you may reduce the death rate... temporarily .....until those who want to kill adopt another method...........


OOOHHHH PLEEEEEASE! Do I take it you just fish and don't hunt? You are a reformed alcoholic or never touched a drop? Guns just don't go off by themselves and neither do vehicles unless someone pulls the trigger or turns the key!!!!! Not saying you aren't totally off base and people should be responsiable for their actions. So we don't hunt with guns? I hunt with a bow and a gun, so we go back to sling shots? Blow guns? Maybe you should go fishing without a hook so the fish don't suffer so much. oke:


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

BirdJ said:


> dakotashooter2 said:
> 
> 
> > One of the arguments against guns is that they are not a necessity.... neither is alcohol...yet evey year 75,000-80,00 people die from alcohol (2 1/2 times the number of gun deaths).... 16,000-18,000 of those people are killed in alcohol related crashes. Ad on to that those that are killed by someone who was using alcohol and you match or exceed the number of gun related murders. While alcohol related death may not be intentional that should make them even easier to avoid. Guns are just a tool. People were using rocks and sharp sticks to kill long before guns were invented. Take a way guns and you may reduce the death rate... temporarily .....until those who want to kill adopt another method...........
> ...


Dang BirdJ, you may want to read the whole thread and then re-read dakotashooter2's post before you light that rocket under your rear! :rollin:


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## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

Our founding fathers recognized that certain freedoms and rights are inherent to a free people. The rights specified in the first ten amendments serve to identify and describe that free society. They are not rights granted by the government. They are rights that a free people possess and that the "government" is prohibited from passing laws to remove.

If your friend is against the fundamental freedom protected by the second amendment, you might ask them which other freedoms they would choose to steal? Would they prohibit free speech? How about the freedom to worship as they choose? Should someone caught in the act of committing a crime face a jury, or should they be executed on the spot?

Can and should we imprison people that we think "might" commit a crime in the future? Should the mayor of your community be able to force your family from their home because of your race? Can your mother be told she cannot vote because she is a woman?

Taking away any fundamental freedom is a start down a slippery slope......is your friend sure they want to go there?

Good luck with the debate. You both enjoy the freedom and the right to have that debate. Men fought with guns to secure and guarantee that for you.

oldfireguy


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## bluegoose18 (Jan 9, 2008)

way to go oldfireguy :beer: :bop: :rock: 
couldnt of said it better
that friend would be no freind of mine 
the only tree hugging i agree with is when your dropping a deuce :rollin:


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## BirdJ (Aug 24, 2011)

Longshot said:


> BirdJ said:
> 
> 
> > dakotashooter2 said:
> ...


 :withstupid: Meaning me. LOL :rollin: :rollin: Just caught me off guard thats all. Sorry DS2!


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Get and read this book, "From My Cold Dead Fingers: Why America Needs Guns" by Richard Mack and Timothy Walters. http://www.amazon.com/From-My-Cold-Dead ... 0964193515

Contains lots of good information that can be used when debating those who think that guns are not necessary.

Richard Mack is a former Arizona Sheriff and is very outspoken on the issue of gun control.

huntin1


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## zzyzx (Mar 20, 2010)

His argument is similar to what I used to hear when I was in the business of selling lighting years ago. Street lights for cities and other places. We always used FBI statistics to show how crime went down when street lights were installed. We never used the follow up studies for 3-5 years later that showed they went up higher than before once people were used to them and stopped being suspicious of folks they could see in the lights. The always looked carefully at those using flashlights before, not much at all for those in the streetlights if they 'appeared' to belong.

Same thing with firearms. Misuse is the problem. Paranoia is even worse and your friend has it.

Autos are used more in crime than firearms. We even register vehicles and require a license - doesn't stop the use in crime.

Nothing you say will make a difference to your friend. But, Switzerland and similar where every male is military per the country's requirements may help.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

Might want to take a look at Switerland where every house hold is required to have a gun. They hold national shooting days there and every one has to shoot the gun from their home.
Seems I remember the crime rate being really low there too.

 Al


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