# Waiting on the edge of my seat ...



## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

For the vote to pull troops out of Iraq ...

Sure looks like this Representative form PA raised some Eyebrows :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

No question it is just a ploy by the Republicans and they will vote against their own bill but it sure put the Democrats gonads in a crunch.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

It seems the importance of this "Shotgun" vote is ......

This joker for PA gave the entire World the ability to say ... something like this ...

"A Senior United States Congressman has called for the speedy removal of U.S. Military Forces from Iraq because there is nothing more America can do."

Until you grasp how his action might be interpreted by the mutitudes of folks, World Wide (both in favor of and against the United States and it's policies in the War on Terror) ... you can't understand the importance of muting this one Congressman's recorded opinion.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

John Kerry today was on the floor and he said he was not going to allow this war hero (Congressman John Murtha) to be swift boated. He went on to say no one had a right to say anything bad about Murtha. I thought it odd that 50 years ago there was no problem calling out Senator Joe McCarthy who was also a decorated war hero but certainly a certified nut cake. To me, Congressman Murtha fits that same description and has simply slipped over the edge into his own little world. And, I believe the damage he has done will hurt or military people down the line.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

hmmm Failed ...

403 to 3

Imagine that.

Looks like a quagmire, we my never get out.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

wonder how many politicians will be crying to pull out tomorrow after that.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Lemme guess, those of you that feel comfortable labeling Congressman Murtha a joker, nutcase, and other derogatory remarks are probably the kind of fine American men that look up to Nascar drivers, NFL players and pop singers as your inspirational heroes. You disgust me. 
I went to the Congressional web page for Mr Murtha, and heres what I learned.
Distinguished Service Medal, USMC, 1990
Distinguished Service Medal, State of Pennsylvania, 1977
Meritorious Service Medal, State of Pennsylvania, 1976
Bronze Star with combat V, 1966
Purple Heart, 1966
Purple Heart, (second one,)1966
Veitnamese Cross, 1966
American Spirit Honor, 1952
38 years of honorable service to his country. If any of you other guys reading this post have served in any capacity in the armed services, sincerely, THANK YOU. If any of the critics of Mr Murtha have a comparable level of service, then I apologize, it's not my place to criticize your view. For the rest of you, I hope I never sink to your level. 
I didn't have the maturity, sense of responsibility, or honor to serve my country when young enough to do so. I thank God every day that some men like Mr Murtha did. 
Disagreeing with his viewpoint, vote, political leaning, heck, anything he says is your right, very American, and should be continued. Name calling and belittling a pubilc servant of his caliber is uncalled for.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

I will stand by my comment ... ...

What he put on the official record of Congress made him (in is capacity as a Representative in Congressman) a "JOKER" ... maybe even a Traitor since his direction, if followed, would lead the loss of Iraq to Terrorist Masterminds ... one needs only look at very, very recent history (the past month or two) to see where that would lead and how it would affect the region and our own safety in America.

Whatever he did in the past, no matter how Valiant ... does not diminish nor mitigate his action at this time ...

No amount of honorable service to America in the past, buys a free pass on being a NUMBSKULL today.

Sorry guys ... but in my book ... You can take that to the bank.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> I will stand by my comment ... ...


And you are absolutely right in your comments. Murtha at the present time is doing irreparable damage to this country and calling him a joke or joker is being very polite. People need to get off this kick that if someone served in the military that in some way some how makes them untouchable. It makes them a vet, nothing more, nothing less. What matters is what he is doing today, not what he did in the past.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Arctic Plainsman ...

Maybe you missed my other recent thread here ... but this is an indication of what is happening ... just in case you missed what's happening around us in the World.

http://nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18919


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

True, I do miss a lot of what goes on in the world. (my geographic location can be a bummer,)
However, I did read your other thread, and I am still very dissapointed with the two of you -know who you are.
If you both think that someones valiant history shouldn't buy them some respect in todays age, shall we tear down the Lincoln, Washington, and Jefferson monuments? Current, maybe revisionist historians have uncovered some less than valiant accusations about each of these great Americans, so according to you should we still respect them?
Ok guys now come on, out with it, who's your favorite Nascar hero? I know you've got a hero there!
When I was between the ages of 18 and 25, I was drinking beer, pounding nails, hunting ducks and chasing girls. Being a dumb kid that is. John Murtha was serving in Korea and as a drill sergeant in the States.
Ok, President Reagan, great president that should be remembered and respected, or Alzheimer patient and now dead, so who cares? FDR, Eisenhower, T Roosevelt, what say you? What about General Patton? Maybe you think "Yeah sure, Commander of the Third Armored, but.......what did he do after that. 
I think I'm catching on to your way of thinking. Perhaps you two think medals and other merit commendations should have expiration dates, so recipients can't have and use them for life! Great idea, I wonder what kind of time frames you had in mind? Medal of Honor, good for five years? Silver Star, two years? Bronze Star six months? Purple Heart, well you two must think that award should only be good until the wound heals.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Oh, sorry, I forgot.
Decoy Dummy,
For suggesting Mr Murtha is a traitor, in light of his long and distinguished service to our country, I hope your real man neighbor hears you repeat that sentence and beats the crap out of you.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Hmmm ... seems I may be dealing with a violence prone PUNK here ... do they teach you that in Arkansas :-? :-? :-? ...

Stand up for history no matter how detached and defunked it might be.

I am making ZERO reference to what Mr. Murtha did in the military ... I am referring to what he did on the floor of the House of Representatives ... ... I don't imagine one single thing Mr. Murtha did will show up in the annals of history in quite the way Lincoln, Washington, and Jefferson are viewed ... He is a none player on that field.

As a side note here ... I don't believe Lincoln or Jefferson were "notably" in the military ... other than being "Commander in Chief" and both faced military grief ... in Jefferson's case recall the reframe "From the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli" ... being the marine's song &#8230; folks might understand something about that

Do you always miss the point or are you just stuck on Blindly trusting the present and future ............. to ones history?

Just a simple question (actually two questions, assuming you keep up) but not an invitation to a fight


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Artic Plainsman I spent 26 years and 19 days in the military. Thirteen months of that was running up and down a hot stinking river outside of Camron Bay. Another 5 years of that was on the gun line pounding shoreline targets aboard the USS Parsons DDG-33. The day I retired I had 14 medals on my chest. Those medals and sixty cents will buy me a cup of coffee at McDonalds. You know what that makes me....a vet, just like tens of thousand of others. Being in the service and awarded medals does not give anyone a free pass at being a fool. By the way, I have never watched Nascar in my life.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Gohon,
Your service buys more than coffee, you have my respect. I apologize to you for being disrespectful. I won't question any further your judgement of Mr Murtha. I don't know about or understand military life, or a combat experience so for one soldier to question or criticize another is a topic for me to stay out of.
Decoy Dummy, 
AK is Alaska, not Arkansas. I live in Dillingham Alaska, on the southwest coast of the state, north eastern edge of Bristol Bay. Nobody's really much of a fighter around here, but I'd sure jump in the middle of someone maligning a good mans reputation. Always miss the point,........yes quite often I do. In this case I believe you refered to Mr Murtha as being a joker and a traitor. For saying this, and yes in light of his history, I strongly object, and will stand by my previous posts about your wished for health. I believe Mr Murtha has earned the right to be above name calling. The Clintons? Not the same. W? Hardly. Decoy, calling Mr Murtha a traitor is reprehensible. I'm a punk? Well, I'm 37, a city council member, and on the entry team at our volunteer fire dept. Certainly not comparable to other statuesque folks on this website and others, but I'm tryin'. 
I'm not sure I blindly trust my present and future to my history, but I do think the vote isn't in on this war or it's outcome, and he may well be proven right. I hope not, but history will tell that. Mr Murtha has earned the right that you and I enjoy to disagree. I think we should disagree with him and any other elected and appointed official, strongly if needed, but the name calling is wrong. I don't think Mr Murtha is quite done serving our country yet, so you may also be wrong about how history will see him.
Thankfully, Gohon claimed total ignorance of NASCAR, DecoyDummy? I'm right aren't I? 
Ok, well I don't know what other questions I missed. It's late for me so I'm calling it a night. I'm going to thank God tonight for Mr Murtha, and also thank God that you can only goof up this country with your one vote Decoy.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

OOPs ... sorry I made that mis-step regarding National State Abbreviations ... and I won't blame Clinton either.

I'll rephrase ... "Do they teach you that in Alaska?????

If no one near you is much of a fighter ... I guess that explains why you are requesting that my neighgors do your dirty work for you ... hard to imagine that, but I'll try.

I also can't imagine what NASCAR as to do with National Security ... does that make you more of a misundrstood soul than before?

Oddly enough Gohon's reply was simply a confirmation of my reply ... funny you respect him for confirimng me, but still question me???

Strange just keeps getting stranger as we go ...

Can you explain that to me ... if you have the time and mental energy.

For any additional input ... pleeeeese ... refer to my previous post (other than the Arkansas bit ... sorry about that and no offense intended.)


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Regarding Mr. Murtha's service to the country....

I am very grateful, and I have no doubt he was an honorable soldier. That doesn't mean squat today. Let me recount a small tale for you.

I have a man, whom for the purposes of this story I will call Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith is a homeless man that occupies his days begging in front of my business. Mr. Smith was constantly harassing my customers and employees to the point that the sight of him made my blood boil. Do to a stroke of bad luck turned good, my brother was privy to this mans police record. He's a convicted sex offender, of the child molesting type. Seems he had a thing for kids who hadn't even begun to worry about puberty. He was also arrested several times for assault on an officer, resisting arrest, and so on.

After learning this, we decided we could no longer tolerate this person being near my shop. We'd call the cops whenever he was around, but was usually gone by the time they showed up. I got lucky one fine Sunny Veterans day. Driving past my shop I saw Mr. Smith standing cuffed in front of a squad car, in front of my business. I pulled over to investigate, and found that the officer had some concerns about Mr. Smith harassing his wife for money when she came to work, which happened to be at the neighborhood elementary school up the street. I asked the officer if I could formally declare a trespass notice on Mr. Smith, so as to expedite his arrest should he continue to come onto my property. The officer gave me the card to read, and filled out the paperwork for me.

As I was reading the declaration on the card, one of the folks from the neighborhood came by to find out what the trouble was. Seems he and Mr. Smith had an understanding, and he helped Mr. Smith out with money and food rather often. He had come over to inform us that he didn't think it fair for us to be harassing a decorated veteran of the Vietnam War on Veterans Day.

I asked Mr. Smith what he was decorated for, and he rattled off a few awards that I cannot remember save his purple heart. He told me he served 2 tours in Nam, and retired from the military a sergeant.

I then proceeded to tell MR Smith that I was grateful for his service to our country, and the countrymen of Vietnam, and that if I ever saw his child molesting #$% on my property again, I was having him arrested. I then told the nosy neighbor that anyone that would befriend a convicted child molester had no business being anywhere near me, and that if he did not get off of my property immediately, I'd declare a trespass on him and have him arrested as well.

The point of this story is this. Honorable Veterans are not always honorable, and there is always someone willing to overlook the dishonorable stuff, regardless of how heinous, simply because they were Vets.

Mr. Murtha served our country proudly, and for that I am very grateful. His comments and actions regarding our involvement in Iraq are reprehensible at best, and he should be ashamed of himself.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

It's politics boys. Pure and simple. You certainly would not want that on your voting record at the next election. They would crucify you as a traitior to your country. It was pure politics. It did not fool anyone except the foolish and those who wish to make it more than it actually was, politics. At least it wasn't attached to some other legislation that was important. You certainly know the vote was a no brainer for just about everyone that had a vote! It did what it was meant to do and that was to have a "shock" affect. No more, no less.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Good golly, I haven't got my first cup of coffee in me but here I go. 
Lesse, ok, first, I'm guessing I don't live anywhere near you, don't know where you live, so I can only hope you've got a neigbor somewhere near by that can right a wrong. 
I've got this mental image of you sitting in your recliner on any given weekend breathing thru your mouth, strategizing with the tv about how your hero should be driving. NASCAR didn't have anything to do with National Security last time I checked Decoy, I just am under the impression that your that kind of guy. Put your Brittany Spears album on, maybe it'll soothe you a little.
I don't agree with Gohon name calling either, but I don't think it's my place to criticize him. You?well I think it's been a waste of time. I think you have wholy missed the point from the very beginning of this supreme waste of time, and that is some peoples past service should buy them the right to be above the beer induced name calling. I said, (know you didn't read,) that politicians yes Mr Murtha, should be disagreed with. Did you get that? The name calling is wrong. Mr Murthas history shouldn't be erased by his present, any more than his history should buy him out of anything he goofs now. Lets stop this, this thread is striking me as a waste of time and foolish.
In the future, not that this will even remotely matter I wish you would refrain from the name calling. I've listed all my reasons in previous posts, so I won't re hash. Decoy, you and I are never going to meet each other, so it's not like any of this matters, but I wish you wouldn't.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> I don't agree with Gohon name calling either, but I don't think it's my place to criticize him.


And that is where I think you are wrong. If you disagree with me then disagree with me. My past service or Murtha's past service has nothing to do with the present as far agreeing or disagreeing. I said Murtha was a fool and a joke and I'll stand by that and I don't really consider that name calling, just expressing his present standings, not his past deeds. If you agree with Congressman Murtha's position then defend his position but to say no one can criticize him today because of his past record is plain wrong.

Let me put the events in line for you...... Murtha allowed his emotions to take control over his common sense and experience and made a public speech about immediate withdrawal from Iraq, something he knew better not to do. As would be expected it was immediately expressed by many that, that statement was ridiculous and dangerous. The Democrats saw a chance for political hay and rallied around Murtha, not because he was a good guy but because it was a chance for controversy and a shot at the administration. The Republicans saw their chance for political hay and threw the immediate withdrawal bill out on the floor, knowing all along no one would vote for it but they had a chance to make the Democrats bleed. Congressman Murtha is already starting to backtrack on some of his statements but it is a little late because the people that will really be hurt from all this is the troops. Zarqawi will now be encouraged to step up the violence and already some leaders in Iraq have asked for a time table for withdrawal, something they have never demanded in the past. Even the dumbest private on the ground knows it is stupid to issue a withdrawal date to the enemy in war time. Certainly Murtha knew that and that makes him a fool for doing it........ DJRooster is probable correct when he says it is all politics. But now you have to ask the question is Murtha putting politics above the safety of our troops or is politics simply using a war veteran (Murtha) who has lost touch with reality for political gain?????

PS....... you really should get away from looking down your nose at people just because you may not enjoy the things they enjoy. I don't like 
Brittany Spears either but by granddaughter use to love her music. Do you think I should put her in a sack full of kittens and throw her over a bridge because she does or did? Probable a bunch of people on this forum that like Nascar also............snobbery will gain you nothing
.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

arctic plainsman said:


> Oh, sorry, I forgot.
> Decoy Dummy,
> For suggesting Mr Murtha is a traitor, in light of his long and distinguished service to our country, I hope your real man neighbor hears you repeat that sentence and beats the crap out of you.





arctic plainsman said:


> I'm a punk? Well, I'm 37, a city council member, and on the entry team at our volunteer fire dept. Certainly not comparable to other statuesque folks on this website and others, but I'm tryin'.


Do your voters know you advocate physical violence towards those who would disagree with you?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't know if I should get into the controversy or not since I agree a little bit with everyone, but here is my two cents.

I feel closest to Gun Owners ideas. People change over time and some that were total jerks in their youth are good people now. The opposite also occurred and that's to bad. I also believe that no one is above criticism. Lets face it this move by Murtha isn't a move Einstein would have made. If you truly think he is a fool, I see that as descriptive, not name calling.

I see Roosters point also, my only question is: Did Murtha expect to give the democrats political hay, or the republicans? Will he run again, or was he sacrificing himself to act as bait for the democrats? He must have known they would swarm on this like flies on dung. I watched it like a game of chess and when the republicans put the bill up for a vote, they had a political check mate. The democrats suckered like a three year old for a cookie. It was an example of Washington's poorest behavior. If this crap keeps up the only place we will find integrity is in Webster's dictionary.

Let me give you another example of a war hero gone astray. Look at McCain. He served our country and suffered at the hands of the Viet Cong. Does this make him a hero. As much as I sympathize with what he went through I have a different idea of what a hero is. It is not a person who dies, it is a person who saves the lives of fellow soldiers and more so if they make the poor sucker on the other side die. I thank McCain for his service in the past, but not for his disservice to the conservatives of present. All we need to know is that he is the current hero of the media. That speaks volumes.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

I gotta stop doing this.
Yes my constituents know I advocate taking care of my own problems. I'm not talking about doing anything other than punching someone in the nose when they are unacceptably offensive. I don't see the problem with that. I am treated respectfully and politely in my town (a) because I treat my fellow citizens the same, and (b) because they know there'll be repercussions if they don't. Seems to work well for me, and I was well enough liked in town to get elected. Maybe not again though!
I have said several times now that I am a strong supporter of political dissent, just not the low brow name calling. 
Gohon, I agree to dissagree with you. Sincerely, thankyou for your input.
I learn from people like you. My snobbery was a low point. My apologies for that. I was very angry at the name calling, especially the traitor part.
Ok, enough, I give.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

arctic plainsman said:


> I am treated respectfully and politely in my town (a) because I treat my fellow citizens the same, and (b) because they know there'll be repercussions if they don't.


You're right, it is probably better to be feared than loved. Ahh the lessons of the Godfather.....

I'll stick to working within the laws to solve society's ills....


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

I build HotRods and drive them ... I don't have time to sit in the recliner.

Here is a PIC of one of them


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Arctic Plainsman I love the respect you show for Vets, but Gohan is right it is not a licence to be a fool. Hey Gohan is a Vet and I call him a Baboon every chance I get. :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Arctic plainsman, I too like the respect you show vets. I also don't consider you violent. I myself am from the old school of settle things and get it over with. When I was in school big disagreements were settled behind the school. Today that is considered violent and looked down upon, but what happens? They let it fester until someone comes to school with guns, knives, or bombs and they kill each other. Hardly more civilized if you ask me.

Have a happy thanksgiving everyone. I also enjoy being politically incorrect (who decides this anyway, and why is it always liberals) and can hardly wait to say Merry Christmas. Maybe it's just the ones that like to trample on the first amendment.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

"Hey Gohan is a Vet and I call him a Baboon every chance I get"

Yeah..... the little prick is always doing that.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Dang ... sorry I called Murtha a "Joker" ...

Got all this name calling and "hopes" (by some) for violence started :eyeroll:

Guess I'll go work on a car ... this one is a 67 Camaro ... it keeps me out of trouble here on the Politics forum 

As a side note here ... I never called "AP" anything at all prior to his feeble attempt to discribe me and his feebley threat to me ... (not that there was any legitimacy to the threat) ... but then what legitimacy is there to my calling him anything ... Besides that ... he lives in a cold dark place in the winter ... l live in the Desert and the "City of Lights and Entertainment."

In my book ... I guess it starts boiling down to ...

"Were NUMBSULLS go, other NUMBSKULLS follow."

Sorry if that offends anyone.


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