# Full length sizing .308



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

A friend of mine has been having problems with some of the .308 brass I gave him. The brass is from once fired Federal GMM out of M-14s. He is loading for a Tikka Tactical .308 and had had trouble closing the bolt on a lot of the reloads.

He was told that some times brass fired out an M-14 will not go back to spec when full length sized. Is that true, and if so why? I have yet to try my hand loads (some of the same brass) in my Rem 700. Am I going to have the same problem?


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

sometimes an auto will have a bit of an oversized chamber to facilitate better cycling. You may need a small base resizing die to get it back into spec.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

gmm brass is rather thin compared to what mil-surp brass it.

As such, if it's been fired in an M14, I would really inspect the inside for some case stretching at the head.

Depending on the chamber, you could have some brass that is really close to failing coming from an M14. I would toss 1:5 that I had fired through my M14.

It's a little high ratio, but I would rather not have a separation issue than use my brass too much.

What's the actual case length on the reloads?

You could try the small base die, but if that's what it's taking to make it fit a Tikka chamber, I'd find new brass to work with.

Would make more sense to me to fire it in the tikka and then reload it for the M14.

Autoloaders are just harder on brass. As stated, chambers might be slightly larger, cases stretched more because they are pulling the case out with some pressure applied still.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I do not know if he is doing this or not. He may want to make the shell holder and the die touch when recising them. If that still does not work then the Small Base Die will be needed. The damage may have already been done to the brass. Fed is thinner than most.

Chuck Norris does not play the lottery. It doesn't have nearly enough balls.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Is Rem Premier Match brass any better for this problem. Even if I get one reload out of them it seems kind of a waste to throw them away. Will they fail after two loads?


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

even using Mil-surp brass which is considerably thicker.

I get 3, maybe 4 reloads before I start to get rather leary of loading them more. The ridge by the case head starts to get noticeable when I run over it with the dental pick on the inside and I just choose not to reload em anymore.

So I get maybe 4 loads on a piece of brass.

My M1 Garand is about the same way with M2 brass.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Since I am going from the auto to a bolt gun though, it shouldn't be too much of a problem correct?


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

chances are the damage is already done to the brass by the gas gun.

The bolt is moving and pulling on the case long before the pressure has dropped to release the case from the chamber. That's what is giving it that ever so slight lengthening

IF you are lucky and the case isn't overly stretched, you would have to at a minimum full length resize it. Once you do this, you will seriously have to trim the case length back to spec. At least that has been my experience.

At worst, you will have to small base die the case as well causing further case hardening and lengthening of the case.

If he is serious about wanting to reload the brass for his bolt gun, get 100 pieces of brass for it new. Fire them in that rifle and ONLY that rifle. He will only have to neck size them at that point to reload for his bolt gun.

After about 7-8 reloads, start paying attention to the neck for splitting as they will be getting brittle and may need annealling.


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

If using a small base die for sizing cases that have already been stretched by an auto, he might be causing even more of an head space problem for himself, since the SB die will push the shoulder back more than a standard die. Yes, they might well chamber, but this would likely cause the brass to fail very early, with head separation as soon as his second or third firing. I would recommend he toss the brass you gave him and get his own new brass. Small base dies are not, IMHO, suitable for use for a bolt action. I have SB in 223 and 308, and do not recommend it at all.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

One thing I found a little strange was about a week ago he gave me 6 of his reloads to try to chamber in my 700. 2 loaded with 168gr Hornady Match HPBTs, 2 with 165gr SSTs, and 2 with 130gr SPBTs. None will chamber in his Tikka, but only the HPBTs will not chamber in the 700. Is this just a fluke? He tried the SB dies and said about 3/4 chamber now.


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

If he tried SB dies and still only getting 3/4s of his reloads to chamber, I would look at the gun itself. As long as he has them trimmed to at or under the recommended length, and has them sized to SB dimensions, there is no reason they should not chamber
unless there is a gun defect, other than a really short throat.

As far at the 2) 168 bthp not chambering in your 700, that might be an COAL problem. Is he loading them all real long?


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I am pretty sure the problem is at the shoulder, the oal is to specs. I am going to try my hornady dies before I get too worried.


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

It seems a bit strange that all but the match bullets would load into your 700, all other factors being equal.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

There are marks on the shoulders from trying to close the bolt. I will check the oal again when I get back home


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## Woodser (Sep 3, 2009)

You might coat one in candle soot or magic marker to see how the marks arrange themselves. The marks make me think his resizing technique is not consistent. Or that perhaps the rounds with the match bullets did not get SB sized. All in all, it appears
from what you have mentioned that your cases are damaged beyond the point of use. The auto must be really stretching them a lot.
To the point that, from what you are saying, I would not want to use them. Head separation appears certain at some point, probably sooner than later.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I'd say anneal the cases, it'll take the work hardening out of the brass, then full length size them or body die size them. What might be happening is your cases got stretched and when you sb sized them it compressed the brass, but beings that it's already hardened it won't take shape but instead it returns to it's original shape due to memory, that is caused by work hardening. I know you've only fired them once then started to reload them, but it's surprising how little those Fed GMM brass will take before they're shot. Also keep an eye on the primer pockets on the GMM brass, they tend to wobble out pretty quick.

If your COAL is 2.800" it should fit in just about any gun.

I'll talk to you later,
Deano


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Are you using RCBS dies by chance? I LOVE RCBS, but they have been known to deep ream their dies, so that even when adjusted to touch the shell holder they still don't push the shoulder back far enough to chamber in some guns. It's easy to measure.

And if you're worried about the brass being ruined you can sell it to me


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

My friend is using the RCBS dies, I will be using Hornady. Hopefully I won't have the same problems. I think I will try annealing as xdeano suggested. Csquared, I will keep you in mind if I get more of this brass!


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I'll be very surprised if it's not simply a matter of pushing the shoulder back a bit, and it will probably go away with a different sizing die. Measure the case neck/shoulder junction before and after sizing. If a different die does solve the problem remember RCBS has THE BEST customer service in the business and will replace your die ASAP!


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

The only problem is he has now used an FL and SB dies and some still are not working in his rifle.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Have you measured case length at the shoulder/neck junction before and after sizing?

Do you have some fired cases from the Tikka rifle that you can measure the same?

I still believe it's a shoulder issue. The fact one die would allow none to chamber and the sb die allowed _most_ to chamber simply tells me the small base die was adjusted deeper than the other....or it wasn't reamed as deep at the factory. I believe the base is of no consequence, as it will be sized smaller anyway as you push the shoulder back.

Do you have a 308 sizing die you aren't too attached to? In about 2 minutes you can remove enough of the die bottom to let us all know if we're on the right track.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I only have one FL die for the 308 and as long as they work in my 700 I am not going to worry too much. I will keep updating if annealing or some thing else works. I will check the shoulder measurements too. Thanks for all the help every one!


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Just a quick update on this issue. I finally got around to resizing some brass with my dies. I got the same results with the brass both RP and FC that were fired through the M14s. My brass fired through my Rem 700 was measured at 3.626 +-.001 with my hornady headspace gauge and caliper. The brass fired through the 14s measured any where from 3.632 all the way up to 3.647.

After full length sizing with my Hornady die none of the M14 brass would allow me to close the bolt on the 700. I borrowed an RCBS SB die and now the RP brass has the same headspace as my brass fired through the 700, but the FC brass will still not allow the bolt to close. I am junking the FC and keeping the RP to test a few to see if they are viable.

Thanks for all the info every one!!!


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