# Fall Ecallers.



## snowgoosekilla1

Since the last one was locked i want to know the pros and cons about haaving Ecallers in the Fall.


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## fieldgeneral

Seems like they are worried about other species that also get drawn into the e-caller. I sure wish they would let us use them in the fall and maybe make it as to only be able to shoot snows while the snowspread is out and the e-calls on. I don't know.... It does sound like a tricky deal though with the other species and all.


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## BigT

Pro - U will probably shoot several snows as you are one of few using them,

Con - You will lose your license for a couple years, have to pay a couple thousand dollars and whatever else they fine you with.

oke:


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## jpallen14

BigT said:


> Pro - U will probably shoot several snows as you are one of few using them,
> 
> Con - You will lose your license for a couple years, have to pay a couple thousand dollars and whatever else they fine you with.
> 
> oke:


You can always fish when you get caught though.


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## Mike Kortum

BigT said:


> Pro - U will probably shoot several snows as you are one of few using them,
> 
> Con - You will lose your license for a couple years, have to pay a couple thousand dollars and whatever else they fine you with.
> 
> oke:


I highly doubt the punishment would he that severe unless you have a long history of breaking the law. The ticket according my payables list is $250. I'm surprised more guys don't use them.


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## jpallen14

Mike Kortum said:


> BigT said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pro - U will probably shoot several snows as you are one of few using them,
> 
> Con - You will lose your license for a couple years, have to pay a couple thousand dollars and whatever else they fine you with.
> 
> oke:
> 
> 
> 
> I highly doubt the punishment would he that severe unless you have a long history of breaking the law. The ticket according my payables list is $250. I'm surprised more guys don't use them.
Click to expand...

Haha, ask several SD boys what happens when you use them in the fall in SD. It is close to what is mentioned by Big T. Several have or are losing licenses from 1-3 years with large fines, over $1,000. Not worth it in my book even if the fine was $1.


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## snowgoosekilla1

I know its illegal but im talking about the pros and cons the game and fish think about when talking about this disscussion. I don't get why they don't just make it like the spring unlimted amount of snows and shells and you can have ecallers, but you can only shoot snows then, yes i know people will still shoot ducks and dark geese, but its not like that doesnt happen in the spring as some people are learning.


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## KEN W

snowgoosekilla1 said:


> I know its illegal but im talking about the pros and cons the game and fish think about when talking about this disscussion. I don't get why they don't just make it like the spring unlimted amount of snows and shells and you can have ecallers, but you can only shoot snows then, yes i know people will still shoot ducks and dark geese, but its not like that doesnt happen in the spring as some people are learning.


You are correct.But the big difference is that in the spring,nothing else is open.Other seasons are open in the fall....enforcement nightmare.


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## Chuck Smith

> You are correct.But the big difference is that in the spring,nothing else is open.Other seasons are open in the fall....enforcement nightmare.


Exactly.... because if game and fish checks a group of hunters as they are pulling there snow goose spread. How will they know if they shot the ducks or darks that they have in possession with the ecaller?? Or how do you know they didn't shoot them with the ecaller?? Because it would be perfectly legal to shoot your ducks and darks. Then turn on your ecaller and hunt snows. See the problem!


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## the professor

Pro - pictures of piles of snow geese.
Con - $2500-$5000 in fines and loss of hunting privileges for 1-3 years, some court dates, loss of prestigious pro staff positions, etc. :eyeroll:


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## fieldgeneral

What about if they set a law stating that if a snow spread was set out, you could use an e-caller but only snows could be downed in your spread????


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## snowgoosekilla1

fieldgeneral said:


> What about if they set a law stating that if a snow spread was set out, you could use an e-caller but only snows could be downed in your spread????


EXACTLY. :beer:


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## snogeezmen

fieldgeneral said:


> What about if they set a law stating that if a snow spread was set out, you could use an e-caller but only snows could be downed in your spread????


X3 I was just gonna post that. You can use an e caller but only light geese shot no other species. 
Guys could still hide e callers and shoot darks but that's no different than enforcing the current law


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## Chuck Smith

Another enforcement nightmare..... You are in the field picking up your white only spread. But in your truck is dark geese or ducks..... Where did you shoot them? Again enforcement nightmare. Like mentioned.....in the spring you can only shoot snows and blues. So enforcement is easy..... in the fall too many other species can be hunted......enforcement nightmare.

Now if people are using an ecaller the game and fish only needs to be downwind and they can tell if that is an ecaller or people with hand calls.....simple.....case closed they are breaking the law.

With what some of you want on here..... They would have to watch, watch, watch, video tape, video tape, watch, watch. Or if they come up while you are picking up a spread. They can just do a simple license and limit check. With what some are purposing.... That won't be so simple. You better explain why you have darks with you and prove where you shot them, etc. Nightmare for both hunter and enforcement. IMHO.


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## Brotsky

If you use an e-caller than no ducks or darks in your possession. Just that simple. You get rid of the caller and the light geese before you can hunt darks or darks. Pretty simple.


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## jpallen14

http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/ ... ?id=149692

Here's a con to using ecallers in the fall

The bottom of the article was illegal take of snow geese over ecallers in the fall


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## Mike Kortum

jpallen14 said:


> http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/two-sd-men-plead-guilty-in-bird-killing-cases/?id=149692
> 
> Here's a con to using ecallers in the fall


Did you post the correct story? That one said nothing about ecallers.


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## jpallen14

Mike Kortum said:


> jpallen14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/two-sd-men-plead-guilty-in-bird-killing-cases/?id=149692
> 
> Here's a con to using ecallers in the fall
> 
> 
> 
> Did you post the correct story? That one said nothing about ecallers.
Click to expand...

The bottom of the article was illegal take of snow geese over ecallers in the fall. Should have specified it better.


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## snowgoosekilla1

Brotsky said:


> If you use an e-caller than no ducks or darks in your possession. Just that simple. You get rid of the caller and the light geese before you can hunt darks or darks. Pretty simple.


Exactly! :beer:


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## fieldmallard

Con


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## BigT

yep, con....


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## themaskedmallard

Brotsky said:


> If you use an e-caller than no ducks or darks in your possession. Just that simple. You get rid of the caller and the light geese before you can hunt darks or darks. Pretty simple.


Not simple at all, as mentioned above enforcement nightmare. Also, it is pretty evident hunting is having little to no impact on Snow Geese so adding E-Callers in the fall will only further educate the species making them even harder to kill, boosting the survival rate. Snow's are killable in the fall doing it legally you just have to have some patience and think outside the box a little. I see no long term advantage to using an E-Caller in the fall in the Lower 48 and the added effects on other species makes it just that much more unjustifiable.

Or you can go on a illegal killing spree and lose your license for 1-3 years, when the judge asks you why you did it using "Well we can do it in the Spring" wont be a valid excuse as the gavel slams on your punishment.


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## snowgoosekilla1

themaskedmallard said:


> Brotsky said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you use an e-caller than no ducks or darks in your possession. Just that simple. You get rid of the caller and the light geese before you can hunt darks or darks. Pretty simple.
> 
> 
> 
> Not simple at all, as mentioned above enforcement nightmare. Also, it is pretty evident hunting is having little to no impact on Snow Geese so adding E-Callers in the fall will only further educate the species making them even harder to kill, boosting the survival rate. Snow's are killable in the fall doing it legally you just have to have some patience and think outside the box a little. I see no long term advantage to using an E-Caller in the fall in the Lower 48 and the added effects on other species makes it just that much more unjustifiable.
> 
> Or you can go on a illegal killing spree and lose your license for 1-3 years, when the judge asks you why you did it using "Well we can do it in the Spring" wont be a valid excuse as the gavel slams on your punishment.
Click to expand...

How do you know that we arent putting a dent in the snow goose population? You don't have to use ecallers and educate the birds, but hell they do it up in Canada so why not here? And how is it going to educate them? what are they are going to get scared of the sound of snow geese? :withstupid: The long term advatage is more snow geese dead.


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## the professor

snowgoosekilla1 said:


> How do you know that we arent putting a dent in the snow goose population?


 :lol:



snowgoosekilla1 said:


> You don't have to use ecallers and educate the birds, but hell they do it up in Canada so why not here? And how is it going to educate them? what are they are going to get scared of the sound of snow geese? :withstupid: The long term advatage is more snow geese dead.


There is very little hunting pressure on snows in canada relative to what there would be if e-callers were legal during the fall here in the states.


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## snowgoosekilla1

There is very little hunting pressure on snows in canada relative to what there would be if e-callers were legal during the fall here in the states.[/quote]

Ya so whats the problem here? more pressure mean more that dying? and just because we pressred them in the fall with ecallers all the way the down through the states doesnt mean that they just arent going to come to the sounds of an ecaller anymore.


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## the professor

I just don't see enough positives to support fall e-caller use, especially if it included rules and guidelines to prevent additional pressure on ducks or specks. Too many enforcement issues for state and fed game wardens that are already over worked and under paid. Plus, if e-callers were legal, you'd probably see a much larger guide presence in the wintering areas of the birds, which would only further educate the birds before the spring season. The simple fact is if the canadian and u.s. officials feel it's necessary, population reduction will be done on the breeding grounds, not through the flyway in the form of more hunting opportunities.


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## snowgoosekilla1

the professor said:


> I just don't see enough positives to support fall e-caller use, especially if it included rules and guidelines to prevent additional pressure on ducks or specks. Too many enforcement issues for state and fed game wardens that are already over worked and under paid. Plus, if e-callers were legal, you'd probably see a much larger guide presence in the wintering areas of the birds, which would only further educate the birds before the spring season. The simple fact is if the canadian and u.s. officials feel it's necessary, population reduction will be done on the breeding grounds, not through the flyway in the form of more hunting opportunities.


Are you a snow goose hunter??

Who cares if there is more pressure on the birds? and it doesnt matter anyway they get pressured so hard around squaw in the spring that the birds are already smart. And canada already has Ecallers legalized, and the USA can't do sh*t about the breeding grounds cause we dont own them, and since canada already has Ecallers legalized i will say that the U.S. will also legalize them before they talk to canada about about the breeding grounds and how the hunters arent doing enough.


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## shooteminthelips

I spend 15 days in the Fall in Canada and 15 days in the Spring both chasing snow geese. They are our primary target and anything else is a bonus while we are hunting. Does the ecaller change the game in most situations yes, would I use them in the US in the Fall if I could, absolutely.

Here are the facts.

1. There is still a fair amount of pressure in Canada in the fall when it comes to hunting. But most guys that go up focus on hunting everything or mainly honkers, ducks, and crane.

2. Are you at an advantage to hunting other species when you use an ecaller. I would say no and here is why. Most other species don't like the sound of the ecallers like a snow does. For the most part when we see other fowl coming, we turn them down and let our hand calls take over to try to match the sounds they are giving us. And more times then not with the exception to pintails (because they are just suckers for white decoys) you wont get honkers, specks, crane, and mallards to commit to the decoy with an ecaller like you would a snow goose in my experience. Have I had phenomenal hunts with an ecaller in Canada with ducks, honkers, and snows? Yes in fact one day we shot our 80 snows, 32 ducks, and 32 honkers it was awesome. But I don't think the ecaller made the difference our location did and we just hit everything perfect.

3. You don't need an ecaller to be successful in the fall on snow geese. If you spend your time scouting and looking for pockets of juvies they will come right in. We had 4 unbelievable hunts in ND last Fall in November of 50 dozen socks and 2 hand calls.

In conclusion snowgoosekilla1 you can kill piles of geese in the states in the Fall with out an ecaller. I am right there with you I would love to see them let us use them down in the states in some capacity. However it isn't the card we are dealt, I chase snow geese whether I can use an ecaller or not. If you want to hunt them in the Fall I would tell you to try it and practice up on your hand call. Because here is the honest truth we smashed them in Canada last fall and my favorite snow hunt of the Fall for snow geese was in ND. No Ecaller, no flyers, and it was a gorgeous morning. We shot a 3 man limit of snows and mallards in corn field.


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## fieldgeneral

If they are going to let Canada use them in the fall, we should jump on board as well.


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## the professor

snowgoosekilla1 said:


> Are you a snow goose hunter??
> 
> Who cares if there is more pressure on the birds? and it doesnt matter anyway they get pressured so hard around squaw in the spring that the birds are already smart. And canada already has Ecallers legalized, and the USA can't do sh*t about the breeding grounds cause we dont own them, and since canada already has Ecallers legalized i will say that the U.S. will also legalize them before they talk to canada about about the breeding grounds and how the hunters arent doing enough.


2-4 weeks of hunting around squaw with the adults stacking up ahead of the juvies vs. 2 months of winter flock hunting in arkansas/lousiana/texas...the guides would love it, but the birds would get smarter faster.
Yes I hunt snows. If allowed to in the fall, I'd use an e-caller. I'm not against it. I don't however have any grand visions that the snow goose population will suddenly be under control with fall e-caller use. 
Canada and US agencies work hand in hand for the overall management objectives of waterfowl, and there is tons of research available if you'd like to read up on what they are doing with snows. They are trying to use hunting as the primary tool, but a lot of studies are starting to suggest that egg harvest and nest destruction will be the next step to be considered. Google "snow goose management" and you can read for hours on the subject.


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## kpgoose

I don't see the use of ecalls in the fall hurting a thing. Everyone thought it was gonna hurt us when they started letting canada use them. Well it hasnt. In fact it seems like we are shooting more snows and more adult snows at that. I'm not sure why. I have two theories and both are prolly wrong but one could be that in canada they are killing more adult birds in yrs past and so now when the birds get to texas the average age has declined. Like say fifteen yrs ago I have heard the avg age of a snow goose was thirteen yrs old. Now I hear the avg age is closer to 8. Maybe also if we have more juvies make it down the juvies are helping us kill more adults. Not sure what it is but there is another sight and if you look on there at the reports from down in texas its amazi g the success we are having in the fall. If we could use ecalls it would be even better. So like I have said before, if people really want to lower the population of snow geese the govt needs to get more out of the way.


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## jpallen14

http://www.justice.gov/usao/sd/pressrel ... %20al.html

Verdicts out on reasons not to use ecallers in the fall in lower 48


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## kpgoose

Under no circumsta ce do I think someone should use one illegally. Ive even been scared to have the ringtone on my phone that sounds like a goose honking.


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## fieldgeneral

The law always catches up to you. Them fellas aren't going to fully realize how much that sucks until they start to see the migration unfold right above them over there in SD, and not be able to join in all the fun for a year or three. Pretty easy to follow the rules like everyone else, and if you don't... well now you gotta go sit on the bench.


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## Snowline

Here in my State we can use ecallers for early goose. 15 bird limit no plug and a half hr after sunset. Do any of you guys know of any CD's of Canadas so we can download it to my SB


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## kpgoose

Western river calls. Go to their downloads.


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## Snowline

Thanks man :beer:


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