# Sheyenne Valley Lodge Update



## bioman

G/O more of your ilk making the newswire...

Plea deals signed in largest game and fish prosecution in North Dakota

Aug 29, 2007 - 09:42:12 CDT
By RICHARD HINTON 
Bismarck Tribune
The owners and operators of Sheyenne Valley Lodge have signed plea agreements in a federal wildlife case involving migratory game bird violations, court documents show.

Theodore Mertz and Orlan Mertz made their initial court appearance Tuesday in Bismarck in a video conference hookup before U.S. Magistrate Judge Karen Klein, who was in Fargo.

Although the two men and the corporation entered not-guilty pleas in Tuesday's preliminary hearing, plea-change and sentencing proceedings will be held Nov. 9 before U.S. District Judge Daniel Hovland. The men and the corporation are presumed innocent until the change of plea, Klein said. At assistant U.S. attorney Cameron Hayden's request, the men were released on their own recognizance after Tuesday's hearing.

"I would have to say it's a far-reaching prosecution, probably the largest game and fish prosecution in the state of North Dakota on several levels," said Hayden.

The case also involves seven guides who worked at Sheyenne Valley Lodge, west of Goodrich in Sheridan County, and 94 hunters from across the United States. Federal authorities mailed ticket to the hunters, who are from 27 states including North Dakota, and have all paid their fines. Fines in the entire case total $120,000.

Theodore Mertz signed a plea agreement admitting to unlawful transportation of wildlife, a misdemeanor, and signed a plea agreement admitting to unlawful sale of wildlife as a partner of Sheyenne Valley Lodge, LLP. That count is a felony.

Orlan Mertz's plea agreement admits to unlawful transportation of wildlife.

In the plea agreements, the government will recommend that Theodore Mertz and Orlan Mertz each be sentenced to 18 months probation and loss of hunting privileges in North America for 18 months. Together, the men and the corporation will pay an $80,000 fine. Together, they also will pay $10,000 restitution to the federal government and forfeit two shotguns to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. They also have agreed to a lifetime ban on guiding or outfitting in the United States.

Although federal prosecutors, the defendants and their lawyers have agreed to the plea arrangement, the final decision on the sentence lies with Hovland.

The felony count carries a maximum penalty of five years imprisonment, a $250,000 fine and supervised release for a maximum of three years. The misdemeanors have a maximum penalty of one year in prison, a $100,000 fine and up to a year supervised release.

"Ted Mertz accepts responsibility as far as the charges are concerned, and he regrets the situation. He has entered into a plea agreement, which we think is fair, and Ted is anxious to put this behind him and move on," said Tim Purdon, who is representing Theodore Mertz and Sheyenne Valley Lodge.

Mike Hoffman, Orlan Mertz's attorney, did not immediately return a phone call seeking comment.

Federal and state authorities served a federal search warrant in October 2005 after numerous citizen complaints and an undercover investigation. The violations took place between October 2004 and October 2005, court records said.

Guides regularly took clients on morning and evening hunts, even if the clients had limited in the morning, the court record said. The guides also were instructed to falsify records to cover up the excess number of ducks and geese brought back to the lodge.

Guides also pitched some ducks into dump pits, where authorities found carcasses in various states of decomposition and retrieved 94 waterfowl carcasses, including shovelers, gadwalls, mallards and pintails.

The guides also allowed clients to harvest their daily bag limit of waterfowl, court records show.

Hunters paid between $1,600 and $2,000 for a three-day upland game and waterfowl hunt at Sheyenne Valley Lodge, and most clients who flew into Bismarck would leave without taking their birds.

A $60,000 fine and restitution paid by Warren W. Anderson had been the largest ever for wildlife-related crimes in North Dakota. In a plea agreement, he pleaded guilty to violating the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act and the Migratory Bird Treaty Act for killing five hawks and for violating the Lacey Act by helping hunters transport an over-limit of pheasants out of state. All of the violations were committed in 2004.

Plea agreements, by their nature, are compromises, Hayden pointed out.

"There are many facts and factors taken into consideration. As far as from the government prospective, we look at the impact of the overall prosecution of the case," he explained.

(Reach outdoor writer Richard Hinton at 250-8256 or [email protected];bismarcktribune.com.)


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## bioman

Wow G/O, even more of your ilk making the newswire, such a proud profession...

Seven guides have made plea agreements

Aug 29, 2007 - 04:04:37 CDT
By RICHARD HINTON 
Bismarck Tribune
Seven guides who worked at Sheyenne Valley Lodge have made plea deals that involve probation, loss of hunting privileges and fines totaling almost $10,000 in a federal case against the Sheridan County lodge, documents show.

Kyle M. Davis faced one count of unlawful sale and transportation of migratory game birds, and another count of custody of birds of another, according to court documents. At sentencing, the government will recommend that Davis be given 12 months probation and loss of hunting, guiding and outfitting privileges, a $1,000 fine for the first count and a $250 fine for the second count. The agreement also calls for Davis to pay a $325 fine to the North Dakota Game and Fish Department for a wanton waste of migratory game bird violation and to plead guilty to that state violation.

Guide Carl Cree faced one count of unlawful sale and transportation of migratory game birds and a second count of unlawful take of migratory game birds, court documents said. At Cree's sentencing, the government will recommend 18 months probation and loss of hunting, guiding and firearms privileges, a $1,000 fine for the first count and a $750 fine for the second count.

Troy D. Regstad faced one count of unlawful sale and transportation of migratory game birds, and a second count of custody of birds of another, court records show. The government will recommend 12 months probation and loss of hunting, guiding and outfitting privileges, a $1,000 fine for the first count and a $250 fine for the second count. Regstad also will pay a $450 fine to the NDGFD for a deer poaching violation and to plead guilty to that state violation at sentencing.

Evan Sieling also faced a count of unlawful sale and transportation of migratory game birds and a second count of unlawful possession of untagged migratory game birds, the documents said. According to the agreement, the government will recommend 18 months probation and loss of hunting, guiding and firearms privileges, a $1,000 fine for the first count and a $250 fine for the second count.

Jason R. Grahn faced a count of unlawful sale and transportation of migratory game birds and a count of unlawful possession of untagged migratory game birds. The government will recommend 18 months of probation with loss of hunting, firearms and guiding privileges, a $1,000 fine for the first count and a $250 fine for count two. Grahn also will agree to pay a $450 fine to the NDGFD for a state deer poaching violation and plead guilty to that violation.

Adam Herberlie also faced a count of unlawful sale and transportation of migratory game birds and a second count of custody of birds of another, the documents showed. At sentencing, the government will recommend six months of probation with loss of hunting, guiding and outfitting privileges, a $500 fine for the count one and a $250 fine for the second count.

Guide Andy Uhlich faced a count of unlawful sale and transportation of migratory game birds, and a second count of custody of birds of another, court documents showed. According to his signed plea agreement, the government will recommend that Uhlich will be given 12 months probation and lose hunting, guiding and outfitting privileges, pay a $1,000 fine for the first count and a $250 fine on the second count. He also will pay a $325 to NDGFD for a wanton waste of migratory game birds violation and plead guilty to that state violation. Uhlich made an initial court appearance Monday in Minot. Appearance dates for the other six guides are pending.


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## jdpete75

Ive never met G/O (that I know of, I go beer drinking in his neck of the woods occaisionally), but I think I can safely say that he is better class than these jerk-offs.


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## Drakekiller

North Dakota Proffessional Guides and Outfitters Association 1/05

Officer and Board Member List

President Klye Blancfield Woodland Resort

Lobbyist Klye Blancfield

Lobbyist * Orlan Mertz Sheyenne Valley Lodge

Lobbyist Arnold Leno

Vice President Fred Evans TTT Ranch

Sec/Tres Jim Schuster

Waterfowl Board *Ted Mertz Sheyenne Valley Lodge

Fishing Board Terry Focke

Big Game Board John Hanson Logging Camp Ranch

Upland Board Pat Candrian Cannonball Company


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## dblkluk

What a joke..... uke:

Looks like Mr. Blanchfield had better keep a closer eye on the company he keeps...


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## Drakekiller

NDPGOA Current
Office
Name
Day Phone
Night Phone
Email Address

President Kyle Blanchfield
701-662-5996 701-662-6291 [email protected] 
Lobbyist Kyle Blanchfield 701-662-5996 701-662-6291 [email protected] 
Lobbyist Tim Frantz 701-884-2792 701-701-884-2792 [email protected] 
Lobbyist Jim Redlin 701-349-3325 701-349-3325 [email protected] 
Vice President Fred Evans 701-628-2418 701-628-2418 [email protected] 
Secretary/Treasurer Jim Schuster 701-258-1493 701-258-1493 [email protected] 
Waterfowl Board Tim Frantz 701-884-2792 701-884-2792 [email protected] 
Fishing Board Terry Focke 701-220-3368 701-220-3368 [email protected] 
Big Game Board Billy Freitag 701-225-6109 701-225-6109 [email protected] 
Upland Game Board
Pat Candrian 701-563-4411 701-209-0214 [email protected]


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## smalls

Besides being a resource WHORES and CRIMINALS the Mertz's are DICKS!!!

It's uphalling that with all of the -****- they pulled that there will be no jail time. This one deserves letters to the guiding association and your legislators and the local newspaper.


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## Nick Roehl

G/O don't want them, don't need them. uke:


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## Bob Kellam

Almanac: North Dakota hit by huge hunt bust
Two owners of a North Dakota hunting lodge will be sentenced this week for their involvement in helping guests illegally shoot and possess waterfowl in 2004 and 2005.

By Doug Smith, Star Tribune

Last update: November 03, 2007 - 9:35 PM

It's the largest wildlife bust in North Dakota history, but the stain goes way beyond its borders to 26 other states, including Minnesota.
Two owners of a North Dakota hunting lodge will be sentenced this week in Bismarck for their involvement in helping guests illegally shoot and possess waterfowl in 2004 and 2005. Seven guides also have reached plea agreements.

Ninety-four "guests" -- we won't call them hunters --from 27 states were cited and fined. At least one client was from Minnesota, officials said. Fines for the whole fiasco total $120,000.

"In the area of wildlife enforcement, it is probably the largest prosecution in this state's history," said assistant U.S. Attorney Cameron Hayden.

The two owners, Theodore and Orlan Mertz, ran Sheyenne Valley Lodge near Goodrich, N.D. Guides regularly took clients on morning and evening waterfowl hunts, even if the clients had already bagged their limit of waterfowl, according to court documents. Guides also were told to falsify game harvest records.

Waterfowl killed by clients were illegally combined, sometimes processed and sometimes sent home with clients. But documents said many clients left their birds behind when they departed.

"A number of birds were thrown into pits and left to rot," Hayden said.

Ninety-four carcasses were retrieved by U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service agents, who initiated a covert investigation after receiving numerous tips. Hayden said there likely were far more ducks in the dumps.

U.S. District Court Judge Daniel Hovland is expected to sentence the lodge owners Friday.

In a plea agreement, Theodore Mertz admitted to unlawful transportation of wildlife, a misdemeanor, and unlawful sale of wildlife, a felony. Orlan Mertz admitted to unlawful transportation of wildlife. Most of the guides were charged with unlawful sale and transportation of migratory game birds and unlawful possession of untagged migratory game birds.

Under the plea agreements, the government recommends the Mertzs get 18 months probation and loss of hunting privileges in North America for 18 months. They also agreed to $90,000 in fines and restitution and to a lifetime ban on guiding or outfitting.

The guides also got 12 to 18 months probation, loss of hunting privilege during that time and less than $2,000 in fines each.


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## dwshunt

Too lienent as usual. Some day the laws and judges will get tougher on these poachers. I think they shouldn't be allowed to hunt for a much longer period of time and a larger fine. "Did anything get confiscated? I hope so.

Good Hunting.


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## Dak

Two sentenced for wildlife violations

LOADING
Nov 10, 2007 - 04:04:46 CST
By RICHARD HINTON
Bismarck Tribune
The "most significant" wildlife prosecution in North Dakota's history has resulted in probation and restitution for the former operators of Sheyenne Valley Lodge.

Orlan Mertz, 72, his son Ted Mertz, 42, and the corporation entered guilty pleas Friday in U.S. District Court in Bismarck, the individuals for illegally transporting wildlife and the corporation for illegally selling wildlife.

U.S. District Judge Dan Hovland sentenced each man to two years of probation, along with a two-year loss of hunting privileges in North America, and the men and the corporation will pay $90,000 in restitution. They also agreed to a lifetime ban from guiding or outfitting, and the forfeiture of two shotguns.

"It's the most significant wildlife prosecution in the state on several levels," said assistant U.S. attorney Cameron Hayden, the prosecutor.

The case involved not only the corporation and the lodge operators, but seven guides and 94 hunters from 27 states, including NorthDakota. And the $90,000 in restitution is the most in the state for a fish and game violation.

Asked by Hovland why he broke the law, Ted Mertz answered: "It came down to being able to pay for the business. Keeping clients happy was a way to pay for the business."

"I'm very, very sorry," said Orlan Mertz. "It's the biggest mistake I made in my business world and in my life, and I've been at it for 60-plus years."

"It's disturbing that it rose to this level. It steals resources from hunters in North Dakota and the nation," said Hovland.

Clients paid between $1,600 and $2,000 for three days of hunting at Sheyenne Valley Lodge in Goodrich, and most clients who traveled by air into Bismarck would leave without taking their birds, court documents said. The violations took place between October 2004 and October 2005.

Guides at the lodge took clients on hunts between October 2004 and October 2005 even after the clients had filled their waterfowl limits, officials said. Carcasses of unwanted waterfowl were tossed into pits, and tagging records were falsified at the picking station.

The investigation was spread out over a year and was a joint effort of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and the North Dakota Game and Fish Department.

"I'm pleased with the outcome. It sends a message that if you want to do business in North Dakota, you do it by the rules and the law. The laws are the same for everybody, and we expect people to obey them," said Bob Timian, NDGFD enforcement division chief.

The case is only the third wildlife case in North Dakota to involve a felony conviction, and all three involved outfitting operations, said Hayden.

Ted Mertz has since sold the lodge that he had been operating for "15 or 16 years."

Of the $90,000 in restitution, $35,000 will go to NDGFD, $10,000 to the Dakota Zoo and $45,000 to the Lacey Act reward fund, a federal program that helps investigate wildlife crimes.

Although the plea agreement called for 18 months probation, Hovland tacked on an additional six months. In sentencing, federal judges aren't bound by the terms of a plea deal between prosecutors and defendants.

The Mertzes were ordered to pay restitution instead of a fine so the money could go to designated nonprofits and not "to a big black hole in Washington, D.C.," Hovland said.


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## djleye

While I agree that the Mert group deserves everything they got and probably more, To compare them to G/O is like comparing every game violator with yourself. Sure there are guides that break the law, but there are hunters that do to. Just because a guy from ND violates the law, is every ND hunter a law breaker???
Not real sound logic is it??


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## barebackjack

Of those seven guides not a one will pay over $2000 in fines for all the crap they pulled?

That is what I define as BULLS**T!

Need to make some SERIOUS examples out of these guys. They should all lose EVERYTHING, no hunting and fishing ever again!

A**holes.


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## Turner

I wonder how much pressure outfitters and guides get from their clients while out in the field to allow them to shoot or catch more than they are allowed. With the client using the excuse, I am paying the high license fees and your guiding fees, you should allow me to take a few extra fish or birds. The whole entire time the G/O is probably wanting a decent tip $$ and a possible repeat customer for the future.

We need the G/O's we have out there today to police themselves and each other to make sure every one is staying in check.

My opinion these guides that got caught got off easy.


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## Bob Kellam

*FISH AND GAME ENFORCEMENT: A wildlife case of epic proportions*
By Brad Dokken, Herald Staff Writer
Published Saturday, November 17, 2007

Bruce Burkett was en route from Bismarck to Minnewaukan, N.D., early one morning in October 2004 when he stopped to watch five waterfowl hunters in a field west of McClusky, N.D.

It was before legal shooting hours, and the shots resonating from the field caught his attention.

Commercial and investigations supervisor for the North Dakota Game and Fish Department, Burkett spent the next few hours observing from a distance before confronting the hunters as they packed up to leave the field.

The veteran warden eventually ticketed the four hunters, clients of Sheyenne Valley Lodge, and their guide for keeping too many ducks. The group had 42 ducks, Burkett said 12 more than their limit, even if the guide shot his limit, which at that time was six ducks.

The four hunters pleaded guilty and received a "substantial fine," Burkett said, but the guide contested the charges, and a jury in Sheridan County, N.D., ruled he was innocent.

"Court cases can go (sour)," Burkett said. "Even when you've got a solid case."

Burkett said there'd been rumors of illegal activity at the lodge, but his encounter that October morning was the last straw, of sorts, the first steps down the road to a lengthy investigation.

"We did have information," Burkett said. "Not specific times, dates or places, but just the word there were a lot of things happening with birds that were not legal inside the lodge."

The road ended Nov. 9, when the former operators of Sheyenne Valley Lodge near Goodrich, N.D., were sentenced in the largest federal wildlife prosecution in North Dakota history.

Far-reaching case

Ted Mertz, 42, and his father, Orlan Mertz, 72, pleaded guilty in U.S. District Court in Bismarck to misdemeanor violations of the Lacey Act, which prohibits the transport of illegally taken wildlife.

Meanwhile, the lodge, which operated as a Limited Liability Partnership, pleaded guilty to a felony violation of federal game laws.

U.S. District Judge Dan Hovland ordered the Mertzes to pay $90,000 in fines and restitution as part of a plea agreement. Of that total, $35,000 goes to the North Dakota Game and Fish Department, $10,000 to the Dakota Zoo Raptor Rehabilitation Program in Bismarck and $45,000 goes to the Lacey Act Reward Account.

According to court records, investigators documented hundreds of violations, which included routinely encouraging hunters to shoot more than their limit of waterfowl and upland game birds, shooting raptors and wasting unwanted birds by throwing the carcasses into dump pits to rot.

As part of a plea agreement, Ted Mertz and Orlan Mertz each were placed on probation for two years. They also were banned from guiding and outfitting for life and can't hunt in North America for two years.

Meanwhile, seven guides earlier reached plea deals, and 94 hunters from across the U.S. paid a total of about $20,000 in fines for misdemeanor violations, The Associated Press reported.

The Mertzes ceased operation in 2005, and the lodge now is under new ownership.

"To date, this is the largest, most far-reaching wildlife prosecution in the history of North Dakota," Cameron Hayden, assistant U.S. attorney, said in an interview. "We were very pleased with the result."

Only two other wildlife felonies ever had been prosecuted in the state, Hayden said, the most recent being a 2006 conviction in which Warren Anderson, who ran a commercial pheasant operation in western North Dakota, paid $60,000 for shooting three bald eagles.

Last week, Orlan Mertz apologized in court. He called the incident "the biggest mistake I've made in my business life." Ted Mertz said he knew crimes were being committed and accepted responsibility. "Basically there's no excuse," he said.

Closer look

The turning point, though, was that morning in October 2004, when Burkett spotted the hunters and their guide in the field. The guide might have won the case, but the incident provided the impetus for a closer look inside the workings of Sheyenne Valley Lodge, Burkett said.

The federal U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service also joined the investigation.

And still, it was business as usual at Sheyenne Valley Lodge. Court records show about 250 clients hunted waterfowl at the lodge from October 2004 through October 2005, paying anywhere from $1,600 to $2,000 for the hunts.

"Certainly, from the actions that happened in 2004, and the footsteps that the operation heard in 2004 from us coming after that guide, it should have been like, 'Whoa, we've got to clean up our act,'" Burkett said. "It should have been like a bell ringing in the tower, but apparently not."

Going undercover

The next year, in October 2005, Fish and Wildlife Service agents working undercover posed as paying clients of Sheyenne Valley Lodge. According to Rich Grosz, a special agent for the federal service in Bismarck, the officers encountered numerous violations during their time at the lodge.

"They were basically encouraged to exceed the daily bag of ducks and upland birds, and they did so with regularity when encouraged to do so," Grosz said.

The undercover officers documented other clients doing the same thing, Grosz said, including some who bragged about exceeding limits. They also observed a dump pit where whole carcass birds later were found and two chest freezers with untagged birds, some breasted and others with a single wing attached.

"The birds were not tagged, so (clients) did not have any idea what happened to their birds while there," Grosz said. "There was no way to trace back who had harvested what bird because no records were kept."

Serving warrants

Then, on Oct. 28, 2005, state and federal wardens served simultaneous warrants on the operation's North Lodge and South Lodge, which are located about 10 miles apart "as the bird flies," Grosz said.

Officers found dead raptors, all hawks, along with numerous whole-carcass ducks on the grounds of the North Lodge, Grosz said, along with the pit where lodge personnel dumped birds.

A total of 94 carcasses of ducks and geese were taken from the pit, Grosz said, but officers didn't recover all of the birds. Hayden, the assistant U.S. attorney, called it a "soup of rotting ducks and geese" that was estimated to exceed 1,000 birds.

"As far as the wanton waste of the birds in the dump pit, I've never seen it to that extent," Grosz said. "As far as the unlawful harvest, it certainly ranks in the top two I've ever dealt with. It's certainly the most egregious one I've ever seen in North Dakota."

Despite the scope of the case, Grosz said neither state nor federal investigators were targeting North Dakota's guiding and outfitting industry.

"It wouldn't matter if it was a commercial operation or an individual," Grosz said. "If someone has violated a wildlife law, be it one deer over, one duck over or selling wildlife unlawfully, obviously the North Dakota Game and Fish Department and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service will actively pursue.

"We just want to make sure (guides and outfitters) are in compliance, same as anybody else."

Industry view

That's what the industry wants, too. According to Kyle Blanchfield of Devils Lake, president of the North Dakota Professional Guides and Outfitters Association, the group worked hard during the 2003 legislative session to establish more stringent regulations for guides and outfitters.

Burkett of Game and Fish said North Dakota now has 112 outfitters and 100 guides who are licensed to provide service for those outfitters. That compares with 141 outfitters and 115 guides in 2004, the first year of the new regulations.

In 2003, North Dakota had 402 guides working under the old system, Burkett said.

"I would hope the ones we're losing are the ones that shouldn't be in business, which I guess is the purpose of enforcement," he said.

Blanchfield says the outcome of the Sheyenne Valley Lodge case, while ugly, proves the system is working.

"You've seen some pretty high-profile guiding and outfitting violations in the past 2 years, and a lot of that stems from the fact we were able to put better enforcement teeth" into the law, Blanchfield said. "It hasn't been a very comfortable experience to see big camps like this go down, but it sends a message there's no room for these violations in North Dakota."

If there's a lesson to be learned from the sentence, it's that regulations are put in place for a reason, and everyone must obey them, the Fish and Wildlife Service's Grosz said.

"Stepping across the line for extra deer or birds for commercial gain is just not worth it," he said.


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## Neanderthal

I work with a man who is a first cousin to one of the people charged. I can tell you all this is the tip of an iceberg. The state was very sloppy collecting evidence or blind if this is all they can charge these people with.


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## goosebusters

Do you work with Shawn?


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## Dak

Other Views; Lodge puts smudge on hunters' honor
Grand Forks Herald, The Jamestown Sun
Published Friday, November 30, 2007
Some events just make you shake your head and wonder how our society manages to function at all.

The "wildlife case of epic proportions" (as the headline put it) that unfolded in central North Dakota is one such episode. When they thought no one was looking, guides, guests and owners of a Sheridan County hunting lodge went on an orgy of bird killing, routinely shooting over their legal limits as well as bagging illegal birds - and then throwing away carcasses by the dozens to rot.

The former owners of the Sheyenne Valley Lodge now have reached plea agreements that, among other things, ban them from guiding or outfitting for life. The lodge has been sold and is under new management.

Seven guides also must pay fines or fulfill other conditions of their own court sentences.

And if the case stopped there, that would be one thing. But it doesn't. For not only did the owners and guides brazenly flout hunting ethics as well as the law, but also many dozens of their clients and guests over the years did the same.

The slaughter and waste were extreme: A federal official described a dump pit on the property "a soup of rotting ducks and geese" and estimated that it contained more than 1,000 dead birds.

Some customers bragged about exceeding legal limits, investigating officers said.

As criminologists know, law-abiding societies can't be built on fear of punishment alone. The police can't be everywhere at all times. They (and the rest of us) depend on citizens internalizing the law and obeying it as a matter of conscience, even when no one's looking.

So, if you were to watch a Grand Forks intersection at 3 a.m., you'd see most drivers stopping at the red light even when no other vehicles were in view.

That's more true for hunters than the rest of us, given game wardens' inability to police more than a fraction of the vast hunting acreage available. "Hunting ethics" gets its power from this situation, given that hunters find themselves alone so much of the time and have to regulate their own behavior.

So, it's disappointing that so many hunters gave in to temptation at the Sheyenne Valley Lodge and blasted away while the blasting was good.

Their selfish actions hurt outdoorsmen far beyond Sheridan County by eroding the trust North Dakota traditionally has placed in hunters. If it isn't doing so already, the state Game and Fish Department probably ought to follow up by spot-checking hunting lodges and using undercover officers to monitor guides and owners' behavior.

But what a shame that it had to come to that.

Hunting is a beloved part of North Dakota's heritage, especially because the vast majority of hunters act honorably and responsibly in the field. Let's remember that history, but let's also recognize that hunters by the dozens broke the law at Sheyenne Valley Lodge when they thought they could get away with it.

North Dakota should channel that sobering new wisdom into hunter-education efforts and better statewide enforcement of hunting laws.


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## taddy1340

Dak,

Thanks for sharing...good article.


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## Guide1

barebackjack said:


> Of those seven guides not a one will pay over $2000 in fines for all the crap they pulled?
> 
> That is what I define as BULLS**T!
> 
> Need to make some SERIOUS examples out of these guys. They should all lose EVERYTHING, no hunting and fishing ever again!
> 
> A**holes.


I've watched these discussion threads from my office for the last 2 years. And they have not been easy two years at that. I was one of the gudes at Sheyenne Valley when the lodge was busted. People believe they have a clear cut view of what happened there because they read what is posted in articles written by those who want to make news. I have declined comment on what happened there since the bust. Here is the way it really was.

It was my first year working for Sheyenne Valley. It seemed like a great place to work, as the other guides were genuinely nice guys to me as a new comer to an establishment that they had worked at for quite some time. The lodges were split into two divisions, the North lodge and the south lodge. I worked at the South lodge along with two other young men about my age at the time. We stayed in a small ranch style house about a mile away from the lodge. From the time I got there to the time the game and fish busted the place, we had clients. We would pick them up in the morning, and take them to a predetermined location and set up as is of course the norm at any lodge. After the morning hunt, we would transport the birds back to the lodge we were stationed at, have dinner, and go out for an upland hunt. In the evening clients were dropped off at a locationa and we would go look for a location for a morning hunt.
That said here is where things at the lodge went wrong. After the birds were dropped off at the lodge, as guides, we almost never seen them again. The North Lodge had a team that cleaned the birds comprised of two high school kids. As to what happened to those birds, your guess is as good as mine. The supposed dump pit ( and it was obviously there) I never saw. But still I was charged with wanton waste. Why? As a guide it was our job to report any wrong doing, and know what was going on around us and that was our biggest downfall at the south lodge. I don't make excuses and I will be the first to admit (which I did to the game and fish immediately upon there arrival) that I had a set of clients that killed over their limit. The proper recourse would have been to contact game in fish officials immediately, but that I did not do. Why I'm still not certain. As a kid in my early 20's the money was good, but not good enough to go without hunting all this time. And what I mean by all this time is not the 12 month federal loss of hunting rights or the 18 month state loss of hunting rights, but the last 2 years as well. I enjoy going to other states to hunt, but not knowing when the charges were coming it was pretty tough to buy an expensive out of state license and not be able to use it. 
In the threads I have seen in the last couple of years, ethics is the biggest subject matter on the lodge topic. From what my part in this was I do not feel my ethics are in jepordy (other than the over limit) I grew up on a dairy farm in the absolute middle of nowhere. Hunting was sacred, and it still is to me. I eat, sleep, and breath hunting. And I always will.
Another hot topic was Evan Seiling. Evan was the head guide of the south lodge. And he ran a pretty tight shift. I had a chance to work with him the entire season of 05. Not once did I ever see him conduct himself in anything other than a professional, ethical was. The fact that he incurred any charges still boggles me. He was a great kid and a damn nice guy. He wasn't too shabby with a call either. If he would have noticed anything out of line, he would have corrected it. 
As for the north lodge, I guess I don't know what to say. You know as much as I do. The charges seem pretty cut and dried, but who am i to say. It could be the same thing for some of those guys and that is the blame had to go somewhere. It is obvious alot of wrong was done, but by who I couldn't tell you. *I know with the over limit my set of clients had, and me transporting them back to the lodge sure didn't help things. This whole ordeal puts a black eye on the hunting community that I love, and for that you all my most sincere apologies.* I haven't spoken with any of the guides from the south lodge since the bust. But from what I KNOW of them, they were good hard working young men that had no idea what went on around them, and I would take to the field with them again anytime. (Once we all are legal to hunt again)
Me writing this was not to try to lift blame on myself, or make anyone feel sorry for what happened, as I said, I was part of those in the wrong. I just figured you all deserved to know what went down, and to hear a heart felt apology. Good luck in the feild and I will see all out there again somewhere between 12-18 months.


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## Bob Kellam

Lessons are learned throughout our lives, Sounds like you learned a valuable lesson. We all have, just not in such a public manner.

Apology accepted, I wish you well in your future.

Bob


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## Eric Hustad

Good post and people make mistakes, and it took guts to post what you did so apology accepted. I too wish you have good luck in your future endevers.

Eric


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## Dak

Excellent.


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## R y a n

Eric Hustad said:


> Good post and people make mistakes, and it took guts to post what you did so apology accepted. I too wish you have good luck in your future endevers.
> 
> Eric


Agreed.


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## HUNTNFISHND

Everybody makes mistakes in life. It's what you do after the mistake was made that's important. Either learn from it to become a better person or repeat it. Sounds like your on the right track. Take care!


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## Old Hunter

Guide 1 Your attempt at an apology has way too much denial in it. You still have not accepted full responsibility. You refer to yourself in the begining as a young man but then when it comes to the actual crime you call yourself a kid.You cant have it both ways. What were you 22,23,24 years old? I'll put this in a better perspective for you.This is the age of thousands of young men that are fighting the world over to keep us safe.I would never call them kids. You were not a kid.
What does this mean(From what my part in this was I do not feel my ethics are in jepordy),(other than shooting over the limit) Are you telling me that you have good ethics or that allowing people to shoot over their limit (for money) is not unthecial ?
You go to bat for Evan Seiling telling us that he was professional and ethical. Am I supposed to believe that the head guide had no idea that grievous violations were being committed? 
Do you realize that if Evan was ethical and the other guides did not know what was happening that you were the only one at the south lodge that was a violator? Is that the way it was?
You have a start at redemption but you are not there yet.Drop the denial and do some good for Delta or DU. You are on the right road but you have not yet reached the destination.


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## headshot

Cut their hands off. Then if they can call and shoot let them guide again. Anyone that makes their living from raping the earth deserves it. I shoot a lot of birds but I eat them all, these guys are ruining waterfowling for the rest of us. Greed will be the ruination of everything we enjoy. uke:


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## bioman

Hey Jim R (aka G/O),

I didn't see Richard Lindsay on the North Dakota Professional Guide and Outfitter Association member list??? Is this scum one of your ilk???

Also, congratulations on being elected president of the market hunters of North Dakota :beer:. Might be shoes to fill, especially since the last president of the association is a convicted felon!

A Streeter guide is accused of violating possession limits for waterfowl and illegally hunting on a national wildlife refuge.

Richard Lindsay is charged in federal court with false labeling of wildlife, unlawful transportation of wildlife, and conducting a commercial enterprise on a national wildlife refuge. He has pleaded not guilty.

Authorities say Lindsay helped fill out false possession sheets for Canada geese in April 2007, and led a party of duck hunters on the Lake George National Wildlife Refuge in October 2006.

Defense attorney Cash Aaland was not available for comment.

Trial is set for March 20.


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## Bustem36

You guys need to lay off a little bit...Yeah there are guides/outfitters that break the law. They are not raping the earth get real.

I've worked for pheasant outfits and big game outfits and all of them have been very professional and followed every law to a T. If a game violation was made it was negligance by the hunter and they turned themselves in which is the policy of the operation.

Just like any hunter if the obey all the laws and have respect for others leave them alone.

I'm surprised you can even see anything from way up on your high horses! :eyeroll:


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## bioman

> Yeah there are guides/outfitters that break the law. They are not raping the earth get real.


Quite an affirmation Bustem .


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## g/o

> Hey Jim R (aka G/O),
> 
> I didn't see Richard Lindsay on the North Dakota Professional Guide and Outfitter Association member list??? Is this scum one of your ilk???
> 
> Also, congratulations on being elected president of the market hunters of North Dakota . Might be shoes to fill, especially since the last president of the association is a convicted felon!


Ryan, No Richard is not a member and had he been a member if convicted he would no longer be. Unlike you I still let people go to trial and if convicted then I will pass judgement. Kind of like getting a DUI and getting it reduced to reckless driving, if you know what I mean :wink:

You are correct on one thing, Kyle's shoes will be hard to fill. He was our president for over 10 years and did a hell of a job. For your information he has never been convicted of anything, and is not a *convicted felon*. On this site personal attacks are fair game if it's a outfitter, but you owe Kyle a big apology.


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## Bobm

djleye said:


> While I agree that the Mert group deserves everything they got and probably more, To compare them to G/O is like comparing every game violator with yourself. Sure there are guides that break the law, but there are hunters that do to. Just because a guy from ND violates the law, is every ND hunter a law breaker???
> Not real sound logic is it??


 Good post thats the way I see it, G/O has nothing to do with this!


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## bioman

Thanks for the notification of my error Jim, I stand corrected. Apologies are indeed owed to Mr. Blanchfield. However, I believe my error was the former lobbyist for the Association is none other than Mr. Mertz. The role you now fulfill for the Association. Correct statement?


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## g/o

Ryan, Again you are wrong, I was the lobbyist before now Kyle is we just changed positions.


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## Plainsman

Well, g/o I don't envy you. I would guess there are good guys and bad guys in the guiding industry just like any other business. G/o you and I have disagreed on many things, but the truth is I have hope that things will improve and the bad guys your industry will be able to get a handle on.

We disagree a lot on high fence operations. I have no question their demise is not that distant in the future. I just hope they don't give hunters a big black eye before they depart. Although we didn't bring that to vote last fall I hope the action we took let the know the country is watching them. Perhaps that will be of benefit in keeping them in line. Perhaps the small pen operations will not start up. Perhaps there are things we can begin to agree on. Who knows. I do think efforts like that, and bringing the bad eggs into the public eye through the news and sites like this will stop some of the abuse.

Good luck on that president job.


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## Bustem36

bioman said:


> Yeah there are guides/outfitters that break the law. They are not raping the earth get real.
> 
> 
> 
> Quite an affirmation Bustem .
Click to expand...

Sorry I'll spell it out for you
yes, some guides/outfitters break the law (just like individuals break the law...which the clients have control over things such as shooting over the limits and such just as much if not more than the guide/outfitter). But, not all guides/outfitters conduct themselves in such way.

Guides/outfitters as a whole are not raping the earth. Some people on here need to put themselves i check and realize how stupid their comments are. Yes maybe this individual situation this may apply but as a whole it is very unfair to stick all G/O in such a category. Its just the same as lumping all hunters with the few slob hunters that are out there!

bioman....So because I have guided I am raping the earth and breaking laws is that what you think? Maybe you should have read the rest of my post and then maybe you could have grasped the message it had...but then again your horse was probably to tall to reach down to that basic level.


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## headshot

> Guides/outfitters as a whole are not raping the earth. Some people on here need to put themselves i check and realize how stupid their comments are.


Go ahead...look in the mirror. The thread is about a guiding operation that was CONVICTED for wanton waste. Maybe where you come from that is acceptable. Hunters call it raping the earth, guides call it business as usual. So spell it out for me, I don't see any post that states all guides are commiting offences. :eyeroll:


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## trentmx_05

We all know what happened at the lodge, and how most people on this site feel about guiding and outfitting in North Dakota. In my opinion, all of this illegal b.s. thats been going on in the short term doesnt even matter compared to what guiding and outfitting is doing to the sport of hunting in the long run.

When a lodge leases 100,000 acres of land and locks out the public, all they are doing is burning bridges, exploiting resources, and hindering future generations of hunters. These are the same people who "claim" to care about youth hunting and getting young people involved in our sport so this great part of our heritage will continue. I can imagine how young people feel today who actually DO want to get involved in hunting. Go out and try and find a place to hunt. It used to be easy. But when half the country side is locked up, they aren't going to go and pay $600 a day to have somebody lead them around. Kids can't afford that. Heck, 90% of the adult community can't afford that.Granted some lodges do things right and will compete with the public, and reimburse the landowner if they do hunt. Options like that are far better.

And its sad to think that North Dakota truely is one of the last places in America where you can do it yourself. But, its lodges like SVL that turned their back on their communities and the public...Like people have said, we will eventually lead to our own demise because we can't even stand together as a group to defend our freedoms which are so often being attacked in today's day and age. And in that sense, I'm not even sure if i want to consider lodges part of the hunting community. All they are doing is tarnishing the real hunters image and blocking out future generations. In a sense, I love it, because they are shooting themselves in the foot, and one day will no longer have a market for their service. No hunters=no lodges. But that would make me selfish.

I am very conservative, but at this point, I would, without a doubt, support a tax on guiding operations. Monies that went into wildlife conservation funds or the education of young hunters. Something like the Lacey Act or Pittman/Robinson Act. Maybe thats a start or at least a step in the right direction.

They would love to change the face of hunting so that fee hunting was the norm and exclusive. To me, thats adventurless, and that may be because i grew up in this great state and i know first hand the possibilities the great outdoors offers to each and everyone one of us.

But when you pay for a hunt, your guides and outfitters are the hunters......and all you are is a shooter......DIY.....and never forget what hunting USED to be like...


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## Plainsman

trentmx_05 very good post. I agree with you. Hunting will be gone. The 4X4 at the auto dealers will disappear along with it. Places like Scheels, and Cabelas have had their best days. The outfitters get theirs today, and everyone looses tomorrow. If you like guides or outfitters, or if you don't it doesn't make any difference this is what will happen.

I would suggest asking ten of your friends this question: At what cost per day beyond your personal equipment would you stop hunting?


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## KurtR

headshot said:


> Guides/outfitters as a whole are not raping the earth. Some people on here need to put themselves i check and realize how stupid their comments are.
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead...look in the mirror. The thread is about a guiding operation that was CONVICTED for wanton waste. Maybe where you come from that is acceptable. Hunters call it raping the earth, guides call it business as usual. So spell it out for me, I don't see any post that states all guides are commiting offences. :eyeroll:
Click to expand...

And a murder was commited with a gun yesterday so all gun owners are murders. Nice logic


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## Bustem36

headshot said:


> Guides/outfitters as a whole are not raping the earth. Some people on here need to put themselves i check and realize how stupid their comments are.
> 
> 
> 
> Go ahead...look in the mirror. The thread is about a guiding operation that was CONVICTED for wanton waste. Maybe where you come from that is acceptable. Hunters call it raping the earth,* guides call it business as usual. * So spell it out for me, I don't see any post that states all guides are commiting offences. :eyeroll:
Click to expand...

Did you read the rest of my post where I stated that yeas some g/os handle themselves in unprofessional manners but, that does not mean that all of them do. Maybe where I come from I look at the big picture and realize generalizations are narrow minded peoples ways of dealing with problems.

Again yes "THIS" particular operation was breaking the law. And, "THESE" guides/Operators should be handle like any other game violator. But, "THIS SITUATION" is not the norm for a lot if not most operations.


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## NDTerminator

If you are an outlaw G/O, the guy on whose radar you don't want to appear is Bruce's!

Outstanding work, Bruce...


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## SBE II

To the members of this forum, North Dakotan's, and outdoor enthusiasts world wide, I have a statement I wish to make pertaining to Sheyenne Valley Lodge (SVL) and the former owners, the Mertz family.

I was a hunter at SVL in October 2005. I came to SVL though a guide book published by Dodge in 2003. I found this book in a care package sent to Kuwait as we sat on the berm waiting to invade Iraq. I hand wrote letters to numerous outfitters and guides asking for information on their operations, price lists, and accommodations. Just about all the outfitters and guides who responded offered me deep discounts in appreciation for my service. I looked over the various replies and I settled on SVL. I mailed Orlan Mertz a check as a deposit but had no idea if I would survive the invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq. I stayed in contact with SVL over the next two years and was finally able to book a hunt in October 2005 while on leave from Iraq during my second tour. 
I arrived at the Bismarck airport and was met by an employee and drove myself and a few other men to the lodge. It was there that I first meet the group of men and women who I would reference the "Jersey"Group as they were from New Jersey. I was assigned to the South lodge as my location for accommodations as opposed to the North Lodge. I think this distinction is very important. 
Coming out of Iraq, I didn't have any hunting gear to include a firearm. Ted allowed me to borrow a shotgun and I used my DCU's as hunting clothes. I was introduced to a guide who took me out to a field and we shot a box of shells at clay birds so I could become familiar with the shotgun, a Benelli Super Black Eagle. Ted had actually served in the Army and in the same Division as myself in the late 1980's. Again, I felt very welcome and my needs and special circumstances were fully accommodated. I was very impressed with the operation.

I found the Mertz's, guides, and staff to be extremely nice, professional, and accommodating given my circumstances. I believe I know who Guide 1 is on this forum and I know for damn sure who Andy Urlich is, as he and I spent a good amount of time together hunting. Both Guide 1, if he is who I think he is, and Andy Urlich were professional at all times and I never witnessed them commit any game law violations nor condone any unethical behavior.

On my first morning hunt I was paired up with half the New Jersey group. I think there were 7 of us total and that gave us a daily combined limit of 42 ducks. Guide 1 had to tell the New Jersey guys to stop shooting numerous times so he could count birds. However, they continued to shoot and down birds. We ended up having 1 bird over our limit. The New Jersey group encouraged our Guide, which I think is guide 1 on this forum who posted, to throw half of our taken limit in a slew so they could continue to hunt and shoot birds. He flat out refused and I backed him on that decision. They continued to encourage him to dump the birds for a hefty guide tip but he refused and kept to his ethics. We limited out by law and that was that, hunt over! We went back to the lodge to change clothes and grab a bite to eat as we were now changing gears into upland bird hunting. It during this portion of the hunt on day one that I made the decision to speak with Ted or Orlan that night and request placement with another group because these New Jersey guys were jerks. They constantly failed to maintain safe firearm handling practices, shot at pheasants that were way out of range, spoke ill of the operation as our guides tried to instruct and mentor them on proper engagement techniques and waiting for closer birds. We shot a few pheasants and I don't recall specifics as I was upset at how horrible these guys from Jersey were. We returned to the lodge and prepared for an evening duck hunt over slews. I mentioned to someone that I had only shot 4 ducks the first morning and would like to hit a slew. I questioned why the Jersey guys were coming along because we had aggregately shot 1 over our limit this AM but I knew for sure I only shot 4 ducks because of how they were decoying in and I was not in the hot action area. One New Jersey guy said he paid X amount of Money and was going to shoot all the birds he could. His statement just concreted my decision to complain.

As we sat on a slew, we took a few ducks. A couple were crippled and one man from New Jersey brought his own dog and refused to send his dog to retrieve and recover said wounded birds. I questioned his ethics and stated that it was required by law to attempt to recover down, wounded injured game. He flatly stated he didn't give a damn. I decided to stop hunting as he had the only retriever and I felt it wrong to shoot game that wouldn't be retrieved or even an attempted recovery. 
The group shot one bird that flew a good ½ mile away and went down on the far side of the pond. I asked who was going to retrieve that bird and the Jersey Jerks stated "No one would retrieve the downed duck as it was too far to walk." Please keep in mind that our guides were not with us during this time. They were scouting for ducks/geese for the next morning hunt. I was furious at this point and needed to cool down. I retrieved this duck and 45 minutes later I returned to the group just in time to catch a ride back to the lodge. I informed Ted about the day's events and that I refused to hunt with that group. He switched me around and I ended up hunting with a smaller group of New Jersey Hunters. This second group was not quite as bad as the first days but their demeanor was horrible. Just a bunch of jerk offs as far as I was concerned. 
The first night after dinner, I was showing pictures of Iraq on my laptop and Andy Urlich saw a picture of a soldier whom he knew. He said he guided with him for big game in Colorado and hadn't known he had joined the Army. He asked how I knew him and I said he was one of my Soldiers etc&#8230;unfortunately, I had to tell Andy that the Soldier he knew had actually been killed by a VBIED (Car Bomb) several months earlier. That statement was definitely a mood buster. Guide 1, if he is who I think, wrestled in High School and wrestled against another one of my Soldier's whom he had identified via pictures I was showing. Yes folks, the world is a small place!
After the second day of putting up with the Jersey guys, I asked Andy if he could just guide me as I couldn't handle the unethical and illegal behavior. He asked Ted and he gave the green light. I was very pleased Andy would just guide me for my last day. We talked and got along very well and discussed him guiding me when I got back from Iraq on a hunt in Colorado. I left the lodge in high spirits and decompressed from 10 months of combat operations as an Infantry Sergeant serving a 12 month tour in Iraq. I only had to fly back to Iraq and finish my last six or seven weeks and I would have survived another tour. I was and am very proud to have served in the 3rd Infantry Division.
In January 2006, I returned home from Iraq and called Andy Urlich and he told me that US Fish & Wildlife and State DNR had raided the lodge and criminal proceedings were under way. He then asked if I remembered the Jersey guys. I replied, how could I forget those jerk offs. He told me that they were the undercover agents. I was blown away that sworn law enforcement officers would act in such unethical, unsafe, and willfully violated game laws they were sworn to protect. I wish I would have been contacted or informed about the severity of the incidents that took place at SVL because those agents committed more violations than I had ever seen nor heard of. I don't make any excuses for anyone but I do take issue with the sworn agents who have testified under oath as to illegal actions and they themselves were the worst violators I saw and enticed others to commit law violations with monetary bribes. I wish that somehow I could testify because right is right and wrong is wrong but illegal behavior doesn't warrant further illegal behavior. If the guides, staff, and owners were violating state and federal laws, fine, take the appropriate action but the agents themselves willingly, willfully, and knowingly violated game laws. I see no purpose for them to have committed such atrocities to accomplish their job duties and requirements. Course this is just my opinion and how I see it but its definitely the pot calling the kettle black as far as I'm concerned. I feel the citizens and public ought to know how these agents acted and to me, its disgraceful!

Thank you for reading my experience at SVL in October 2005.


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## KurtR

Not the first time that agents have acted like this and wont be the last. Kind of like the guy in MT that had the agent on tape shooting the big horn sheep after the guide told him no multiple times. They are no better than the violators they are suposedly trying to catch


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## KEN W

Interesting read....BUT....if SVL knew these guys were breaking all kinds of laws....why didn't they say....Your behaviour is unacceptable here.We are refunding your money and you are finished hunting here.

To allow them to keep doing it for 3 days is unacceptable to me.SVL is guilty of putting money over the laws.


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## Lvn2Hnt

Say what you will about one experience you had at the Lodge, and thank you for shedding some light on the "other side" - and it most likely all true - but remember, it was just your experience and just one at that. For those who lived with the Lodge's influence day in and day out know the truth. Nice and accommodating people, sure, to paying customers. And, if what you say occurred with the Jersey group and if that was what led to this operation being shut down, then I applaud the means to the end as what they engaged in paled in comparison to what occurred there on a regular basis with the applause and support of the Lodge. Good riddens to bad rubbish - but too bad the hunting culture and atmosphere around the North and South locations of that Lodge have suffered irreversible damage.


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## KurtR

Just playing devils advocate here but if it was that bad why did not just catch them in the act and not have to use shaddy methods to do it. I want all law breakers to be caught and put to the coals but the law has to follow the rules just like every one else or they are no better than the people they are busting.


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## Chuck Smith

> He told me that they were the undercover agents. I was blown away that sworn law enforcement officers would act in such unethical, unsafe, and willfully violated game laws they were sworn to protect. I wish I would have been contacted or informed about the severity of the incidents that took place at SVL because those agents committed more violations than I had ever seen nor heard of. I don't make any excuses for anyone but I do take issue with the sworn agents who have testified under oath as to illegal actions and they themselves were the worst violators I saw and enticed others to commit law violations with monetary bribes. I wish that somehow I could testify because right is right and wrong is wrong but illegal behavior doesn't warrant further illegal behavior.


This is called undercover work. Undercover agents have to buy drugs (which is illegal), they have to fracture laws or see if others will fracture laws to prosecute.


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## Ron Gilmore

Missed in the post Chuck was the fact that the guide could have called the G&F and reported the behavior. By not doing so it becomes an endorsement of the activity. This is an old thread. The Mertz crew hardly are worthy of any defending with the mutliple violations that have been proven against them. Undercover or not, someone who has a moral compass complained to the Feds about the abuses taking place prior to an undercover operation taking place.


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## Plainsman

> Undercover agents have to buy drugs (which is illegal), they have to fracture laws or see if others will fracture laws to prosecute.


Chuck that's not true. It's perfectly legal for an undercover agent to purchase drugs. It's illegal for other to sell them to him. Further, criminals have often tried to use entrapment as a defense, but that has always been rejected in the courts.


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## Chuck Smith

> Undercover agents have to buy drugs (which is illegal), they have to fracture laws or see if others will fracture laws to prosecute.
> 
> Chuck that's not true. It's perfectly legal for an undercover agent to purchase drugs. It's illegal for other to sell them to him. Further, criminals have often tried to use entrapment as a defense, but that has always been rejected in the courts.


Plainsman... It is illegal to purchase drugs for an average non-law enforcement person. That is what I meant. They have to do or try to ensue illegal activity in-order to get prosecution. You are correct they are getting the dealers for possession, selling of a controlled substance, etc. Just like when an undercover sells drugs to someone....they prosecute them for purchasing illegal drugs, possession, etc. It is not entrapment it is doing there job.

Just like Ron stated....what the guide should have done is stopped the hunt and called game and fish. Once they were over the limit or tried to bribe the guide into shooting more or to do other illegal activities.


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## Plainsman

I understand what your saying now. I just didn't want anyone to think law enforcement was breaking the law to enforce the law. I think the guides need to make it clear before they even start the hunt that they do not tolerate illegal taking of game. I am sure most of the good ones do.

I think the night before or early in the morning they should go over the regulations, especially for non residents. I'll bet the guides association has some recomendations. g/o, can you shed some light on that?


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## KurtR

I know when we take pheasant hunters out every morning be it the first day or there last we go over gun saftey and what you can and cant shoot and how many you can shoot. People have payed alot of money to walk beside me with out a gun practicing how to hold it in the air. I have only had a few problem people who wanted to keep going when they were done, cleaned their birds gave a refund and sent them back to wisconsin.


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