# .223 vs. 22-250



## TANATA

I'm thinking about getting a new gun and don't know much about these calibers and don't trust the guys at Scheels. I would mainly be coyote hunting.

Yets here some arguements on the best one.


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## Brad.T

hands down the 22-250 for coyote if your going to be hunting fox much we might have to reconsider due to excessive pelt damage.


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## Elly2211

You can trust the guys at scheels. Talk to Matt when u go there he knows his stuff.


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## Whelen35

First, at what range do you think you will be shooting the most at. The 223 is a great gun out to about 250 or so yards for me. I know that you can and will shoot with the 223 past this, but you have to be thinking to do this. The 22-250 will let you do the no thinking part out to about 300yds. 223 advantages = cheap and easy to get ammo = more practice. 22-250 longer range more power if you want. Pelt dammage can be solved with bullet selection. If you think most shots would be 250yds or less, I would go with the 223. I have 4 223's one 22-250, and one 220 swift for my day in day out hunting of this sort, but I will also use my 250 improved or 25-06 it really long shots are going to be the norm. I find that I love the 22-250, but the 223 serves me very well for about 90% of my fox/ yote hunting.


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## OneShotOneKill

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## 223shooter

go with the 223 and don't look back!! you can get ammo just about anywhere and you can get army loads for under $4 and go out and just shoot and get used to it. the barrels last much longer then the 22-250 and they are good coyote killers out past 300 yards if you put it where it belongs! just remeber not to use the fmj's that are $4 for hunting not a good idea use the whitebox at walwart for $12 or get some v maxes or somekind


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## HuntnLab

Well I will trhough a mix into it I love my 220 swift. the 22-250 is a great gun though


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## Brad.T

all three calibers are great calibers but the question was what to get for hunting coyotes so i have to stick with the 22-250


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## SDHandgunner

Here is one way to look at it. Both the .223 & .22-250 (and .220 Swift) all shoot the same bullets, .224" in diameter but at different velocities. Per any given bullet weight the .22-250 will shoot the same weight bullet roughly 400 FPS faster than a .223 (and the .220 Swift may well add another 100 FPS onto that). To achieve that extra velocity the .22-250 burns roughly 1/3 more powder than a .223.

In a rifle strictly used for Coyotes this is not a concern. However if Prairie Dogs are the main course then it does indeed mean something to some shooters. In a Prairie Dog situation that 1/3 more powder means lots more barrel heat, more recoil, muzzle blast and somewhat shorter barrel life.

In terms of ballistics, the .22-250 will have the same impact velocities down range about 100 yards farther out than a .223 (ie if a 55gr. Bullet in a .223 slows to 2000 FPS at a certain distance, the .22-250 shooting the same bullet will slow to the same velocity roughly 100 yards farther away. To look at it a different way, I a lot of times use Maximum Point Blank Range numbers when comparing cartridges.

If we zero both the .223 & the .22-250 (again with the same bullets) so the midrange trajectory is 1.5" for both cartridges, then our Maximum Point Blank Range is the distance at which the bullet falls 1.5" below line of sight. In the case of the .223 vs the .22-250 when both are shooting the same bullets the difference in Maximum Point Blank Range will be roughly 50 yards.

Personally I really like shooting and loading for the .223. It's mild appetite for powder, while providing good ballistics has always impressed me. If I feel I need more than the .223 has to offer I pick up 6mm bore cartridge.

With all of that said, the .223, .22-250 & .220 Swift are all great cartridges, and I really wonder if there is indeed a wrong choice.

SD Handgunner


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## sdeprie

SDHandgunner, you sure offered up a lot of information, there. I have to agree with most of it. One thing I think it would be well to point out. That 1/3 more powder got you, what, 50 more yards of point blank range? Is it worth it? That's something only you can decide. Since I'm rich (yea, right) I plan on getting one of each...... some day. Just can't decide which, first. I wonder though about one comment made. Do you think the 223 will be too little energy within any reasonable range at which you can make a good shot? I understand about trajectory. That's not with I'm talking about. Also, would any of the 17's (including rimfire) work well, within range limitations? I have a 17 HMR that shoots great, at least at the ranges I've been able to shoot it.


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## SDHandgunner

In looking at Hornady 55gr. Moly Coated V Max Factory Ammo the numbers look like this.

.223 Remington Impact Energy
100 yds. = 998
200 yds. = 767
300 yds. = 581
400 yds. = 437

.22-250 Remington Impact Energy
100 yds. = 1302
200 yds. = 1010
300 yds. = 772
400 yds. = 582
500 yds. = 433

If you compare the Impact Velocities it looks like this

.223 Remington Impact Velocity
100 yds. = 2859
200 yds. = 2507
300 yds. = 2181
400 yds. = 1891

.22-250 Remington Impact Velocity
100 yds. = 3265
200 yds. = 2876
300 yds. = 2517
400 yds. = 2183
500 yds. = 1887

I do not think a person can look at Impact Energy or Impact Velocity numbers and tell how a cartridge / bullet is going to perform, there is a lot more to it than that. In fact in most instances the bullet does not expend all of it's energy inside of the animal, but rather is still possesing energy after it exits the animal. Granted we all would like to see the bullet expend all of it's energy inside of the animal (especially on predators with valuable pelts), and leave no exit wound, but that is not something we can count on all the time.

I personally think either cartridge has more than enough energy for Coyotes, but again there is more to it that that. Bullet construction and it's ability to expand in these soft skinned critters and displace as much energy as possible has a lot more to do with it than energy. However we do not want a bullet so fragile that it blows up and does not create a killing wound.

One of my favorite Coyote Guns is a 6mm T/CU T/C Contender Handgun. I started out shooting 58gr. Hornady V-Max out of this 6mm Handgun, but quickly found out these bullets are just to fragile if a shoulder is hit. Believe it or not but the 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip has enough tougher jacket that it works great in my 6mm T/CU Handgun.

Not sure if I answered your questions or not, but I tried.

SD Handgunner


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## sdeprie

Thanks. That was exactly what I was looking for. My point was that either had enough "energy." The only significant difference is trajectory. And I just knew there was a 6mm to be found in there.


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## remmy700

Brad.T said:


> hands down the 22-250 for coyote if your going to be hunting fox much we might have to reconsider due to excessive pelt damage.


 i agree 100% its by far the best all around calibre i have ever hunted with, i have shot game as small as birds and as big as moose without any worries!


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## barebackjack

Holy old post batman!

Really dug this one up from the archives.


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## Jmnhunter

2004 doesn't seem old but its already been 5 years, Remmy, theres a 223vs22-250 sticky post on the top of this page with 3 pages of opinions I believe, and welcome to the forum :beer:


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## bigbuck65

22-250 by far!! i have both guns and my choice is the 250. i hand load all of my bullets. i prefer slower bullets for less damage. yet more knock down power at farther ranges. my Ruger 22-250 shoots a half inch group at 200 yards. with a VXIII Leupold i don't miss any coyote under 300.


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## bbrargo

Big Buck maybe you should reload some faster shells so you can actually hit something and roll it at 300 yards. Im sick of you crippl


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## Jaybic

Anyone that does not miss any coyote under 300 yards with ANY rifle is a darn good shot.

And to quote Forest Gump, "and thats all I have to say about that!"

Jaybic


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## duckp

Amen.


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## JeffinPA

bigbuck65 said:


> 22-250 by far!! i have both guns and my choice is the 250. i hand load all of my bullets. i prefer slower bullets for less damage. yet more knock down power at farther ranges. my Ruger 22-250 shoots a half inch group at 200 yards. with a VXIII Leupold i don't miss any coyote under 300.


Half inch groups at 200 yards? Are you shooting from a mechanical rest and sandbags in the field?

Slower bullets for less damage? Why then choose a faster shooting gun?

Don't miss any coyote under 300 yards? Please...


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## DeadCoyote

Remington® Express® 50 PSP 3780 3158 2617 2135 1710 1357 
Remington® Express® 55 PSP 3680 3137 2656 2222 1832 1493

Top line is 220 swift and bottom is 22-250. I dont get where people
say the swift is a faster caliber. The 250 is obviously 5gr heavier and 
beside initial velocity, the swift isnt faster then the 22-250. I tried to compare
same type of bullet and they didnt offer any testing on a 50gr soft
point. Maybe someone else can clarify because everyone is always talking
about the 220 swift being the faster of the two but the ballistic charts I 
see show otherwise. 
:beer:


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## JeffinPA

> This is from Hornady comparing the same 40gr vmax out of both weapons:
> 
> .220 Swift, 40 gr. V-MAX MOLY	83203
> Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
> Speed/Energy at one hundred yard intervals:
> 4200/1566	3597/1149	3070/837	2602/601	2179/422	1798/287
> 
> Trajectory (inches)
> Muzzle	100 yd	200 yd	300 yd	400 yd	500 yd
> -1.50	0.60	0.00	-4.30	-13.80	-30.80
> 
> .22-250 Rem., 40 gr. V-MAX	8335
> Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
> Speed/Energy at one hundred yard intervals:
> 4150/1529	3553/1121	3032/816	2568/585	2148/410	1771/278
> 
> Trajectory (inches)
> Muzzle	100 yd	200 yd	300 yd	400 yd	500 yd
> -1.50	0.60	0.00	-4.50	-14.20	-31.70


Like I said before, the 220 Swift is slightly faster and flatter. The 250 isnt slow enough to gain any discernable advantage w/ pelts, and while the 220 isnt meaningfully faster, its still a quarter inch flatter at 300 yards. Again, not night and day. Both good rifles and flat shooting, but if you reload, there is no reason not to get the swift.


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## bigbuck65

i use a lead sled with a set up built in the ground shooting range. the heavier bullet helps with less wind drift more knock down power and longer ranges with accuracy. where are you from Pennsylvania??? Try SD Where you have to shoot these dogs at 2-3-4 hundred yards on the flat prairie[/quote]


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## Jaybic

So you carry a Caldwell lead sled out to a coyote stand?

You start telling folks on this site that you dont miss ANY coyote under 300 yards and somebody is going to throw the flag atcha. I aint throwing, Im just sayin'.

Jaybic


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## bigbuck65

no. normally you sight in your gun before you hunt with it. it shoots a two inch group at two hundred yards its not that hard to do with the right equipment. so when i go hunting i know where it shoots and where to put it when i need it. if a coyote stops running at 300 yards he better be in the back of my truck. with a 250 which is what the site is about and what im supporting you don't have to acount for much distance change if its sighted in at 200 with a half inch group. running is a different story. but its still not that hard iv been hunting coyotes for as long as i can remember with a 250. i know to sqeeze the trigger and where the cross hairs are thats where my bullet is going. i have much confidence in my hand loaded bullets.


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## Jaybic

I agree with you. A two inch group is not unreasonable to expect at 200 yards. A good rifle should do at least that. I am in the process of selling a rifle right now because it won't do that.

On the other hand, 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards, while possible are extremely rare/lucky and more often than not are a fluke....unless you are very good shooter using some sort of semicustom/custom/full blown bench rifle.

I would challenge most folks to shoot an "honest to goodness" 1/2 inch group at 100 yards. I am not talking about one 3 or 5 shot group. I am talking about FIVE 5 shot groups(an agg) to prove consistantly that a rifle can do it. No fliers or called shots. Any one can get lucky once. Do it five times and its not luck anymore. Its a dang accurate rifle and a dang good shooter behind it. If I am wrong, I'll happily eat crow. I had this same challege thrown at me a good while back and found out that shooting one 1/2in group is totally do-able and 5 is dang near impossible for lotsa guys. Again, no offense. Just my own experiences and those I have witnessed.

Jaybic


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## bigbuck65

Yes I know what you are saying. I load my bullets to the precise tenth of a grain. It's a very reliable gun. Ruger m77 with a heavy varment barrel. It puts bullet holes in the same holes repeatedly the rest is wind drift. My sight in bench is very solid which helps with a lot of it. Top it off with a VXIII she's dang well as acurate as I want it. You would be suprised!! Reloading. Your own bullets is the way to accuracy. It helps iv been shooting the same 250 for years also!


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## JeffinPA

Just wondering...

What is the secret to getting those prairie yotes to sit still out at 3-4 hundred yards, while you dial in your lead sled, without being detected?

I'll agree with you, most guns are capable of exceptional groups with a finely tuned handload. Some even shoot great groups with factory ammo.

Finding a shooter than can consistently put 5 bullets (as Jay so elloquently pointed out) into a half inch at 200 meters without a lead sled is an entirely different matter. If you are that guy, you have a bright career ahead of you with the US Olympic Team.


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## bigbuck65

um dont just fire away at them. they will eventually slow down and wonder why they are running if you only shoot once. and i use my l;ead sled to sight in my gun, not to throw it in a field with me and shoot with it. im sayin my gun is that accurate without it because its been sited in with it. its not hard just relax and squeeze the trigger and you'll roll those dogs over too.


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## JeffinPA

bigbuck65 said:


> um dont just fire away at them. they will eventually slow down and wonder why they are running if you only shoot once. and i use my l;ead sled to sight in my gun, not to throw it in a field with me and shoot with it. im sayin my gun is that accurate without it because its been sited in with it. its not hard just relax and squeeze the trigger and you'll roll those dogs over too.


I'll keep practicing.


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## TripleDeuce

Sorry BigBuck, but I just don't buy it. If you have been shooting the same 22-250 for years than the barrel is spent. Average life of any cartridge that overbore is 3500 rounds, though your underloading may extend that a bit. And anyway, I have yet to find any cartridge that will produce top groups while loading "slow" ammunition. Rifles have accuracy nodes and are usually toward the top of the pressure limit. My .222 has an accuracy node at 3180fps with a 55gr bullet, and another about 100fps slower. But if I go any slower accuracy suffers. It has a lot to do with barrel harmonics. You need the barrel to "vibrate" consistently so the bullet is exiting with the muzzle in the same spot every time.
I also find it hard to believe you can reliably hit every coyote you see offhand at 300yds, regardless of optics. And slower bullets will expand less reliably and have far less terminal damage. The faster you hit with a varmint or expanding bullet designed for this type of shooting the more explosive the expansion and fragmentation. Which in turn results in a much more devastating wound channel and hydrostatic shock to the animals chest cavity. So your slow theory has been shot down in flames. Not true in any way for expanding bullets that weigh in the range of .224 projectiles. Maybe a .500 nitro express, but not a 22-250. Anyway, why not just use a .223? You would have far better results without leaving half the case empty and have better load density for more uniform ignition and better accuracy.

And my triple deuce WILL shoot .5" groups on a calm day at 200yds, and 1" to 1.5" at 300. And I can dip low .2"s at 100. And yes that is from a Hart front rest and a rear bag, as it is a bench gun. And when I go to the varmint fields I have a trailer with side by side shooting benches, and my buddy and I tear it up. And when I really need to reach out and touch something, I pull out the 6-.284 and blister 75 grainers at 3800fps, devastating anything coyote size and under out to 800 yards. And if I need 1000yds, the 115DTAC's will go the distance without question. And I don't claim to do any of this offhand, all from a front rest and rear bag while looking through my Nightforce scopes.

Basically, the only thing you stated with any shred of hope that it may be true, is that your Ruger has any barrel life left.

By the way, you don't load bullets to the tenth of a grain, you load bullets into cartridges with powder weighed to the tenth of a grain. You can weight sort bullets, but usually into .5 grain lots.

Catch you all later. Sorry, found this and got aggravated so I had to set it straight. Now you have some correct info instead of the misleading stuff.


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## .22 Hornet

Damn, Trip Deuce, you are a knowledgeable fella, as are the rest of you other than the "slower bullet" fool. 
Thanks for the knowledge, you've almost convinced me to shoot the Trip 2. I love my .22 Hornet for shorter shots (sub 150) and the .22-250 for the longer stuff. In my neck of the woods address is an issue so the Hornet works well but for sure shots >150yds nothing can beat the .22-250. I do believe a .222 sounds much better than the .223. Either way, I'm not getting either until the barrel in my .22-250 is as smooth as a shotgun bore. Basically, my weigh in would be shoot the one that feels best, hits the most, and leaves your wallet with the least amount of damage. Oregon dogs tend to show a lot closer than them SD dogs, so no need to site in over 200 yds (terrain & topography limit view beyond that, usually.) So the .22-250 is rough enough, tough enough, and with these new Hornady Superformance 50gr V-max's (4k FPS Muzzle), fast enough to take down anything from 10lbs-100lbs with the right shot placement. That brings me to the root of this response, shot placement. If you can hit what you're aiming for, caliber, bullet weight, powder, and all those fine lines don't need to be followed as strictly as the "bench-rest" kingdom would lead you to believe. If you shoot straight and you know it, you hit and harvest/take whatever you are aiming at. I still like the sounds of the trip 2, it may have made its way onto the wish list.
Shoot Straight, leave no footprint (or hulls/shells), and the world is your oyster,
Hornet


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## Lakota

I don't have a 22-250 but do have a .223 Rem 700 Varmiter, Rem 722 .222 and a Sako Varmiter in .222 with a tight neck McMillan stainless barrel. I can get the .223 & Sako to shoot in the low .2's off the bench with Sierra 53gr Match Kings. I also shoot Benchrest Competition (NBRSA) where most of the shooting is free recoil. However I've found the best way to get tight groups with factory rifles is to hold with a good medium tight grip at the wrist and into the shoulder without touching the cheek and centered in the scope. The keys are to do the same exact thing from shot to shot in the same wind conditions. I also like the OAL (overall length) of the cartridge to kiss the lands leaving a square mark on the bullet. I use fine steel wool to polish the bullet & a magnifying class to view the lands markings. Often times this OAL is too long to fit in the magazine, I then chamber each round by hand. The 3 B's for accuracy are: Barrel, Bedding & Bullets. I have bedded my guns with Devcon and experiment with bullets & powder---sometimes with benchrest bullets.

I have found the best method for group size with a factory rifle: 1) start with a cold & very clean barrel & fire 1 fowling shot off of target, then 2 shots on target, 2) let the barrel cool down, 3) fire 3 shots on target in the same condions as the 2 shot group. If you use a chronograph you'll find that the first fowling shot will have a much lower velocity because it has a lower back pressure ie slicker barrel = less pressure & velocity. If you don't allow whimpy factory barrels to cool during a group, most times they will string shots vertically, usually slanted. My experiences from many days at the range.


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## peepaw

I have a .223 Savage with a heavy barrel and Leupold scope. I love this rifle!! Would highly recommend it for long range varmits.


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## peepaw

I have a .223 Savage with a heavy barrel and Leupold scope. I love this rifle!! Would highly recommend it for long range varmits.


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