# MN Legislature Moves to Ban Canned Hunts



## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

From the Star Trib: http://www.startribune.com/503/story/307621.html

A few Quotes:


> But while big-game shooting preserves are common in other states, the practice here remains controversial, even among hunters. On Monday bills were introduced in the Legislature to ban the practice -- reigniting the debate.
> 
> "I think it's a huge step backwards for hunting," said Rep. Joe Hoppe, R-Chaska, chief author in the House. "It gives all hunting a bad image. There's no fair chase about this. I don't think we should be doing it in Minnesota."





> The Minnesota Deer Hunters Association, with 20,000 members, supports the ban, as does the Department of Natural Resources, which for years fought efforts to legalize the practice.
> 
> "There's no fair chase inside a shooting enclosure," said Mark Johnson, executive director of the deer hunters association. "This is a slap in the face to true hunters. Our whole hunting heritage is at stake."
> 
> Said Dave Schad, director of the DNR's fish and wildlife division: "It's a very, very important issue as far as how people perceive hunting and the traditions of hunting. We don't support having it in the state."


Wisconsin DNR is spending huge sums to combat CWD and at least Minnesota legislators can see the writing on the wall. Hats off to them.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

But this isn't about CWD (although it's mentioned as a secondary justification). It's blatantly obvious someone decided they don't like what the other guy is legally doing, so they're going to stick their nose in and force them to conform via legislation. That this is happening in increasingly liberal Minnesota comes as no surprise to me.

I've hunted on game ranches in Texas twice, and I do mean hunted. I worked hard for the animals I took. The fences were absolutely no factor. I never did get even a single opportunity at a mature blackbuck ram...


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## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

I think canned hunts should be banned no matter what state.I wouldn't feel to good about shooting any animal in a cage no matter how big the cage is.I heard a story about a guy from New York that went down to the south west partb of the state where a farmer has an elk ranch(fenced in of course) shot a huge bull then they proceeded to load it in the back of a pickup hauled it out to the badlands to take pictures of him poseing with it all decked out in his camo.What a joke.That isn't hunting.Even if the animal is in a ten square mile fenced in enclosure. the animal is still in a controled enviroment with very little hunting pressure where the animals are most certainly baited into an area.We have all seen how this works on the Outdoor Channel.I guess if want to pay the money,thats your deal.I think it gives hunting a bad name.In the long run the average hunter that doesn't have tens of thousands of dollars to pay for canned hunts is gonna lose in the long run.The more people that pay to hunt the more people are going to post their land expecting to get payment from hunters.This is the whole reason I gave up pheasant hunting.Posted signs everywhere and nobody letting you hunt.I'm sure i'm not the only one.The longer this goes on,theres gonna be just that many more people giving up the sport,sad but true.Your even starting to see people scoffing at their 130-140 class whitetails because their compareing them to the one there seeing on TV or the one some dude at the sporting goods store shot at a game ranch.In my OPINION canned hunts can do no good for the sport except make it worse for the average Joe that makes up 90% of the hunting comunity.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Morality issues that are now outlawed were all "legal" at one time. Legality is a very weak agrument. Society has a duty to set guidelines. Doesn't matter if it is prositution or bootlegging or dog fighting, or pornography or wacking animals inside a fence. I would view those as issues that matter to conservitives, not liberals. The most conservative Canadian province, Alberta, was the first to ban canned hunts. Think back when large caliber guns were legal for waterfowl. 100 birds with one crack of a punt gun. The public property rights were threatened and it was outlawed. This is no different.

There are a host of diseases besides CWD that are a concern from game ranches-canned hunts. USFW has documented serious case of disease transfer from exotics just because someone wanted a new income stream that was still legal. Another example is non-native ornamental plant escapes. Costs this country billions. And the people who cause it never pay for cleaning it up. Never. The public is stuck with the bill and the problem.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I am going to give you guys a different spin on this......

I have a brother who has cerebal palsy. He is in a wheel chair and loves hunting and fishing. He shot a wild boar in Iowa about 10 years ago. It was his first kill. He is so proud of that. Also this hunt help us figure out ways to help him in the feild.

Also another one.....He goes on a "Wild Turkey" hunt at a game preserve. It is a canned hunt. They don't have fences but they put hunters in spots and then release the birds in the middle.

But if you abolish canned or big game preserves are you going to be taking away opportunities like this from handicaped individuals who want to enjoy the aspects of hunting? Some of the disabled or handicaped people who enjoy the outdoors may never be able to go on a western elk hunt.....why can't they have one on the preserve. Also on the preserve you can use laser sights. You can't in the wild. Some handicaped individuals need the use of the laser sights.

I just wanted to show you a different side of game preserves that you might not hear about in the regular media.

Chuck Smith


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

In Eastern ND there is a Sandhills Archery Club. Every year they sponsor a handicapped bow hunt and have good success with the participants. But it *isn't* done in a fenced setting. Takes some work but is a very rewarding hunt. Legislation for an early season for handicapped hunters could solve the issue without canned hunting being dumped on the public.
If laser sights are a problem in any state, legislation for handicapped shooters is an easy fix, but is not justification for canned hunts IMO.


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## hoosier dhr (Jul 24, 2003)

The places that raise animals for hunting are the places where the diseases are developing (because they keep way to many animals), they are very rare in the wild.

The handicapped can (and should) still hunt. There are (and should be more) places that have totally wild hunts for them.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

DNR NEWS - FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE MARCH 15, 2006 
Media contact: Lou Cornicelli, big game program coordinator, (651) 259-5198 or 
(612) 390-8389.

Chronic wasting disease detected on Lac qui Parle County cervid farm 
The Board of Animal Health announced today that chronic wasting disease (CWD) has been detected in one domestic white-tailed deer on a cervid farm in Lac qui Parle County, which is located in southwestern Minnesota. 
Immediately, DNR officials will conduct a local deer survey to determine the number of wild deer in the area. It is expected that not many deer will be found because the area is highly agricultural, with little deer habitat surrounding the farm. DNR will conduct opportunistic sampling of deer, like road kills, in the immediate area now and will conduct intensive hunter-harvested surveillance during the 2006 firearm deer season. 
Although this positive animal is a captive deer, DNR has conducted surveillance for CWD in wild deer in the area. The farm is located near the northern boundary of deer permit area 447, where wild deer surveillance for CWD last occurred in 2003. 
Lou Cornicelli, DNR big game program coordinator, said, "In 2003, we conducted wild deer CWD surveillance in adjoining permit areas 433, 446 and 447. In total, we collected 392 samples from those permit areas during the regular firearm deer season and CWD was not detected." 
The sampling of wild deer was designed statistically to have a 95 percent confidence of detecting a 1 percent infection rate, according to Mike DonCarlos, DNR wildlife programs manager. 
"This situation is very similar to the positive elk farm discovered in Stearns County in 2003, which followed the first discovery of CWD in an Aitkin County elk farm," DonCarlos said. "The DNR response will be similar to the Stearns County action and will include an initial assessment of wild deer populations in the area and development of a surveillance program for next fall." 
From 2002 to 2004, DNR staff collected nearly 28,000 CWD samples statewide and no disease found in the wild herd. 
"The intensive surveillance conducted in 2003 indicated CWD was not present in wild deer," Cornicelli said. "In addition, all indications are that this positive captive deer has not contacted any wild deer, but we will conduct additional surveillance this fall to be sure."


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Unless you've done it, how can any hunter be so arrogant as to presume you have the knowledge to condemn it? I would be willing to bet the critics here have never even set foot on a game ranch, yet they "know" it's wrong. This smacks of folks who condemn all hunting as wrong even though they have never hunted, just because they "know" it is.

How many of you have shot pheasants or chukar on a preserve? I have, it's a great time and great work for my gundog. (This is a big thing in Minnesota, BTW) Anyone ever shot live fliers training your dog? How about at a field trail or hunt test? This could easily be construed as a "canned" hunt. Once the line is drawn, where does it end?

As far as I'm concerned, the CWD aspect is a moot point. We could leave my farmstead right now, and in 20 minutes I could show you at least three groups of 50+ deer yarded up, and they do it the same areas every winter. There are God-alone-knows how many groups yarded up like this all over the upper midwest. I don't think there's anything humans can do to prevent them doing this. If CWD is transmitted, that's how & where it will happen...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

In MN they are some places that have handicaped hunts....early season, they build stands, etc. Hell my brother has not missed a deer season in 10 years on private land not "canned hunts".....but there are limitations set on these hunts, number of people (early season stuff), you have to use or abid by game laws of the state (use of restriced arms, sights, scopes, etc.), transporting the individual to and from stands (atv law in MN), etc. The state or standard game laws makes it hard to modify fire arms, transport people, etc. You can get permits but you have to almost give a DNA sample to get them.

Where on a perserve you can us a crossbow, rifle, shooting out of trucks (back end of a pick up), laser sights, etc. All of these things you don't have to jump through hoops to get the permits...you just go out and hunt. The perserves also could give the chance for a handicaped person to shoot an elk or exotic species. They would have a hard time getting one out west or africa. I know these place offer such hunts....but again it is hard for the average joe to get on these or they limit the numbers.

Now i totally agree with fair chase. My whole thing is that game preserve are not a bad thing when it comes to the handicaped portion of people. But they need to be regulated very strictly for CWD and other illnesses, they need to be regulated on how they opperate, they need to be regulated on what they feed the animals, disposal of waste, etc.


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## 4590 (Jun 27, 2004)

Well Dick as one of my favorite Presidents once said in such profound fashion in a debate " there you go again" spewing your hatred for game farms and hunting preserves. I almost am reluctant to respond as we have hashed all this before and you have no new ammo just the same old arguments and broad accusations without evidence to support.

The only thing I do not recall you saying before is it is a "moral" issue now. Can't win on logic so we will call it immoral. So what do you base your morals on, conservative or liberal politics? God forbid. In my thinking the only true basis for morals is the God given scriptures. Maybe you have chapter and verse for game farming, I would like to hear it. The only one I can think of that applies is the command He gave to " be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth". In other words do what you can to make the earth produce and use good stewardship. Hard for me to find anything there about hunting preserves. Hunting, fishing, and raising domestic livestock are all mentioned in the Bible along with one you mentioned - prostitution. Cant find " whacking animals in a fence" though, maybe I need one of those newer translations.

We have hashed the disease issue at length. I have presented the facts here numerous times but the don't seem to affect those who have there minds made up. A new case of CWD in MN. Well lets panic! It sure is good it was on a game farm because they can address the issue and eliminate it. We seem to have forgotten that it is still rampant in the wild with no hope of controling it. By the way didn't we just have a new case of Mad cow the other day too. If I remember correctly the most likely source of the origin of CWD is the CO DOW. Oh but thats right we game farmers are immoral and the Dept. of Wildlife had good intentions so we should take the blame. You claim there are a "host" of other disease issues concerning game farms. Could you elaborate? I have raised elk for ten years. I as a producer know what diseases might be a threat to my operation and I also know we have none nor do I know of any producers that have any. We are TB Accredited, Brucelosis free, we have done some testing for Johnes. From an epdemiological analysis of my domestic elk herd I can give you over a 99% ( you cant get to 100%) degree of conficence that these animals are disease free because theyare tested and monitored by the ND Board of Animal Health. I guarantee you can not say that about the deer you shot last fall.

One other question. Why do you always have such a fit about game farms and preserves but I hear nothing about Federal preserves like Sullys Hill and TRNP. These are fenced areas and they are not required to do near the testing and surveilance we do. They congregate animals and also allow for escapes. Why not the outcry of disease risk from these. In fact I have heard, and agree by the way, that many of you folks would love to see a hunting season for these areas. GO FIGURE!

By the way if you cant see the difference between not allowing someone to shoot 100 birds( public trust wildlife) with a single shot from a punt gun and my rights to raise domestic wildlife on my property and profit from them as I see fit, then I really am wasting my time. The FACT is public property rights are not being threatened by game ranching in any stretch of your morallity.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> Unless you've done it, how can any hunter be so arrogant as to presume you have the knowledge to condemn it?


Color me arrogant. Do a search on "Bellar". Then tell me it's honky dory.[/quote]


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Those were drugged animals being shot over bait piles......Now that is a totally different thing.....that is not fair chase.

Dick

What is your stand on baiting? Food Plots? Antler growth Food Plots?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

.45, we are in total agreement, you are wasting your time. But hey, it's your time, knock yourself out.  
Baiting--probably will see a bill next session that has some teeth. Finally. And not from the sportsmen's orgs. Sounds like the war of the bait piles escalated last year out in the badlands.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Beacue my thing with baiting and food plots......is that they will spread CWD and other illnesses alot faster than penned animals. Because penned animals will get tested, treated, destroyed correctly, etc.....wild animals will not and can keep spreading it.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

I am not in favor of big game "hunting" preserves. Perhaps the big ranches in Texas have enough area to truly provide a fair chase scenario IF they want to. I don't know enough about those set-ups to really comment. What I like to think of as common sense tells me most of these ranches aren't too concerned with fair chase at any level. However, I think it is pretty easy to comment on at least two of the ranches mentioned in the article. One is only 700 acres and a new one about to open near St Cloud is 200 acres. The 200 acre ranch is looking at both deer and elk hunts for up $20K. I don'y have to take part in one their hunts to know it is nothing more than an open air slaughterhouse. Don't call that situation hunting. Depending upon the set-up, some bird hunting preserves come close a real hunting experience. At least there aren't fences keeping the birds in once they are released.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I'll try to explain my reasoning from a different angle. I have no problem seeing these outfits legislated as to minimum acreage and max number of animals per acre, CWD testing requirements, etc, but outlawing them is giving those who are trying to totally eliminate hunting a crack to work with, as well as a victory.

Personally, I have no use for military type rifles, don't think they should be legal for hunting (including the infamous SKS) and see no reason the average joe should have one. That's my opinion, however, my stand on the issue is that I'm dead set against any law that bans their ownership.

I know this issue has far bigger ramifications than my personal feelings. Give the anti's a crack to work with and they'll do their utmost to capitalize on it and force it wider.

Think about this before you take a negative stand on a type of hunting/shooting that isn't your personal cup of tea. Think about the big picture, not just the part you can see...


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

I worry less about the banning of game preserves being the first step "down the slippery slope" to banning hunting than I do about them operating and being ammunition for anti-hunting forces to use to get the "slaughter" stopped.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Dak said:


> I worry less about the banning of game preserves being the first step "down the slippery slope" to banning hunting than I do about them operating and being ammunition for anti-hunting forces to use to get the "slaughter" stopped.


Agreed... the anti's will have more a field day with penned animals than they will with banning preserves...


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## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

While I'm anti-canned hunting....I'm not sure about making it illeagle. I do believe it should be limited, and strictly monitered. By limited, I'm talking only so many preserves in each county or state state.

I'll make a prediction. IF, if bird flu hit the Dakotas, it will be found first in pen raised pheasants, somewhere in SE SD.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I totally agree with strict limitations or guidelines that each preserve must follow:

Examples: # of animals allowed, # of acres (have a minimum allowed), Testing of animals

But I don't think that they should be outlawed. Just like I have mentioned before. It will allow handicaped people some access or less restrictions than the normal game laws. Also the game preserve can accomidate to a handicap person better than wild hunts....ie transportations, blinds, no restrictions of firearms, etc.


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