# Schindler's Don't Know Where Terri's Ashes Are



## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

The Schindler family was on Hannity and Colmes discussing the fact that Michael Schiavo has not disclosed where Terri's ashes have been laid to rest, even though he is under court order to disclose this information. Is any of this a surprise??? Michael's lawyer, george Felos had no comment. This kind of behavior is to be expected from a guy who had his wife starved to death, had her family removed from the room right before she died, and now he won't tell the family where her ashes are. If there was any doubt in anyones minds what this guy was about this should prove his true colors. :x


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I don't think anyone should form a solid opinion based on any media crap. If you really want to make statements you should e-mail the people involved and ask them what they think and know. I know the world would be boring if the sky didn't fall every day but the media has cried wolf way to many times for me to be suckered into believing there is any truth at all in their reporting. 8)


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Hannity and Colmes makes me uke:


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## ej4prmc (Dec 3, 2004)

Storm, ever heard the saying"let sleeping dogs lie"? your mad because 20+ judges ruled against your opinion and just want to continue stirring the pot!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The Schindler family


 You don't get much closer if your looking for someone involved. As for is it true??????? Lets wait and see. Maybe MT has been talking to a close member of the family, and can shed some light on it.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> I don't think anyone should form a solid opinion based on any media crap.


The mother and father are sitting in front of a camera speaking live to the world and that is their statement. How much damn closer can you get to the source. Media crap my ***...............


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Gohon is completely right, how much closer can you get to the source than the actually family involved. Michael Schiavo's lawyer who was on the news every day stating how much Terri wanted to die and how she never looked better while dieing of dehydration now has no comment on Michael not letting the family know where her ashes are. I won't let this issue die and either should anyone else who cares about the dignity of human life. I also don't care if 2,000 judges rule that an innocent person should be put to death because her "husband" wants her dead and there is nothing else but hear say that says other wise. We have been killing innocent unborn children for decades because the supreme court ruled in favor of Roe vs. Wade. Does that make it right to perform abortions.....? No.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Sensational guys... this type of thing goes on all day every day, it's almost a fact of life that death isn't going to be pretty for any of us. I agree the raw emotion streaming from the boobtoob is overwhelming for some, but I sure don't think laws need to be made or changed because of advertised extreme cases of injustice. 8)


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

buckseye,
I don't quite understand your last post......So we are suspose to be o.k. with innocent life being taken??? Something that you point out is very true. Innocent life is taken everyday and one of the effects of this, is over time we become callus. After a while we don't care if abortions are being done. Handicapped people who can't speak for themselves are being starved and dehydrated to death. And if things don't change we will be putting the elderly to death. This is called a culture of death. Your are also right that this is an emotional issue and has been for some time. The American public is slowly learning and things have begun to change. The Terri Schiavo case was yet another wake up call to America. The people have responded overwhelmingly. The life issus has also become a liability for the Democrats. The Republican Party has proven to be Pro-Life over and over again, where as the Democratic Party is Pro-Death. Their platform even reads that they stand for the right for a women to choose, and choose what TO KILL HER UNBORN CHILD!!!!!


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

MT


> Militant_Tiger wrote on Mar 10, 2005 6:36 pm " I really couldn't give any less of a damn if our soldiers are being shot at or not, that's war."


MT makes me uke:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

No it's not OK Storm, it's a fact of life we will all have our own grisly end and no ones should be televised. I agree the world has become callus to death, heres an example: A man died 250 yds away from me last week and I didn't know it until he was already buried, not many years ago when a neighbor died you knew it. What has caused this? I would say roughly that at least 10,000 people die everyday in the US maybe that is why we get more used to it as being inevitable. I have never seen a pretty death, what is an acceptable way to die? Also when people believe in GOD we tend to accept his workings even when death is involved, maybe GOD will make you our Savior. Thanks


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Death is a stage of life, just like being born is. So there is nothing wrong with death. This becomes a problem when people take innocent life. Taking feeding tubes out of innocent people causing death is wrong. Especially when their family wants to take care of them. There is a big difference between people dieing a natural death and Judges putting people to death.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Storm I think life is defined a little differently for most. Is it life to lay there and not be able to communicate or even eat on your own? Would you have been offended if she was also on a respirator? You must be kinda young yet, you'll get used to hearing some thing new and awful everyday.

You say death is a stage of life well I say life is a stage of death, because we are dead a heck of a lot longer than we are alive. 

Also when people believe in GOD we tend to accept his workings even when death is involved, maybe GOD will make you our Savior. Thanks


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Storm said:


> Death is a stage of life, just like being born is. So there is nothing wrong with death. This becomes a problem when people take innocent life. Taking feeding tubes out of innocent people causing death is wrong. Especially when their family wants to take care of them. There is a big difference between people dieing a natural death and Judges putting people to death.


So you support leaving people to suffer? Should no one ever be put out of their misery then because it would be the taking of an innocent life? Frankly I'm not concerned with what you want for their life, I'm concerned with what they want. There is no reason to force someone to live in anguish.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> You say death is a stage of life well I say life is a stage of death, because we are dead a heck of a lot longer than we are alive.


Awww....... but there is the rub....... we don't really know that for a fact now do we...


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Buckseye why would you think I'm young? I am very conservative. Most people my age tend to be liberal. Anything goes, especially when it comes to ethics and moral. 
I can see where people can buy into this idea that we need to put Terri Schiavo out of her misery, but it still isn't right. Kind of like gun control. On the surface it sounds great. All the liberals buy into this idea that if we ban guns there won't be any around. If you look under the surface at gun control it would never work. But what about the unborn. Are they suffering???? No, when a women chooses to have an abortion, she is taking an innocent life. That innocent life would potentially be capable of doing great things. But we will never know. Abortion is moral and ethically worng in all cases.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Storm said:


> Buckseye why would you think I'm young? I am very conservative. Most people my age tend to be liberal. Anything goes, especially when it comes to ethics and moral.
> I can see where people can buy into this idea that we need to put Terri Schiavo out of her misery, but it still isn't right. Kind of like gun control. On the surface it sounds great. All the liberals buy into this idea that if we ban guns there won't be any around. If you look under the surface at gun control it would never work. But what about the unborn. Are they suffering???? No, when a women chooses to have an abortion, she is taking an innocent life. That innocent life would potentially be capable of doing great things. But we will never know. Abortion is moral and ethically worng in all cases.


I completely agree, abortion and gun control are very similar. In both the right of choice is taken away from our citizens.



> Abortion is moral and ethically worng in all cases


So if a 12 year old is raped by her own father she should be forced to give birth to the child? Where exactly do you think we live? I was always under the impression that this was a free country.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

storm I agree with you on abortion I am glad I have never been in the situation to be part of one. I do feel sorry for the people who have anguished over the ending of their unborn childs life, so much that I can forgive them. I have had friends and relatives in similiar health as Terry was, one lived 18 years in a coma then died and others were let die when they could no longer live a concious life. I know this happens thousands of times a day in the US alone, damn ol Reaper.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Any of you see this story on the news last week.........

"Firefighter Donald Herbert rushed into a blazing apartment in Buffalo, New York, in 1995. The roof caved-in, crushing him and depriving him of oxygen for about six minutes. He was left virtually blind, unable to speak, and without memory, even of his loved ones.

Doctors expressed little optimism he would ever recover. New York University neurologist Dr. Orrin Devinski says people who recover from brain damage usually do so quickly.

"With the lack of improvement for a decade, the prognosis is terrible. It is essentially one in a million," says Dr. Devinski.

But Mr. Herbert defied the odds.

After nearly 10 years in a coma, he has suddenly started speaking again. Last week, he lucidly told staff at his nursing home that he wanted to talk to his wife.

What followed was 14 hours of emotional conversation with his family, including his son Nicolas, who was just three when his father was injured.

*Experts are struggling to understand what happened".*.

Notice how the story for some reason has been pretty much shut down .......... I wonder if the media is afraid of a comparison?


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> Notice how the story for some reason has been pretty much shut down .......... I wonder if the media is afraid of a comparison?


You are skipping over the facts here. Mrs. Schaivos brain was damaged in an irreversible fashion, this fellow simply lost his memory. You cannot grow back brain cells, this fellow didn't have to.

As a side note, this case has one to a million odds, hence why it made the news. If I killed a bear with a .22 does that mean that a .22 is a suitable gun for bear?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I completely agree, abortion and gun control are very similar. In both the right of choice is taken away from our citizens.


Except one is guaranteed by the constitution of the United States. The other was implemented by activist judges in the supreme court. . I'm not going to make a pro or anti abortion statement here, because I don't want anyone's partisanship to influence their ability to see the utter foolishness of this statement.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> You are skipping over the facts here. Mrs. Schaivos brain was damaged in an irreversible fashion, this fellow simply lost his memory. You cannot grow back brain cells, this fellow didn't have to.


What is there about "depriving him of oxygen for about six minutes. He was left virtually blind, unable to speak, and without memory, even of his loved ones" that you didn't understand? Or, "Doctors expressed little optimism he would ever recover". No kid, I didn't skip over any facts and it is Schiavo, not Schaivo. Damn, can't you even get that correct.



> As a side note, this case has one to a million odds


No kidding Sherlock .............. is there a different point there somewhere.



> If I killed a bear with a .22 does that mean that a .22 is a suitable gun for bear?


What the hell is that suppose to mean? At least attempt to make some kind of sense if you are going to attempt an analogy to something.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> What is there about "depriving him of oxygen for about six minutes. He was left virtually blind, unable to speak, and without memory, even of his loved ones" that you didn't understand? Or, "Doctors expressed little optimism he would ever recover". No kid, I didn't skip over any facts and it is Schiavo, not Schaivo. Damn, can't you even get that correct.


Correct me if I'm wrong but it takes 10 minutes to do permanent brain damage. Anyhow this fellow didnt lose but a few brain cells at worst. Mrs. Schiavos brain was about as good as pea soup for the vast majority of it, with no chance of it getting better.



> No kidding Sherlock .............. is there a different point there somewhere.


The point that every once in a while a highly unlikely even occurs?



> What the hell is that suppose to mean? At least attempt to make some kind of sense if you are going to attempt an analogy to something.


Just because one thing happens one time, it doesnt give you justification to change it for everything or everone else. Freak events happen. In this case there wasn't enough permanant brain damage to put him out forever, as there was with Mrs. Schiavo.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

MT, the world traveling, military expert, historian, economist, law enforcement gurue, political genius, 16 year old(supposedly), now has become a medical doctor and has spoken.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

racer66 said:


> MT, the world traveling, military expert, historian, economist, law enforcement gurue, political genius, 16 year old(supposedly), now has become a medical doctor and has spoken.


You see racer my boy as humans we have this large advantage over other species. We are capable of intelligent conversations, and we can share complex information as such. I took the time to read a few reports by doctors, all of whom concluded that she was braindead and beyond repair. You see the brain only has a set number of cells at its apex, and it will never grow any more, this is why it was a bad idea for you to sniff glue in grade school. Mrs. Schiavo suffered the loss of a great many brain cells, so many that the only tasks that she could preform were breathing, digestion and keeping the heart pumping. She couldn't get better, it was a physical impossiblity, not an improbability.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Good job Gohon by pointing out the story about the Buffalo firefighter. I read the same story on Yahoo news and was going to bring this up. Terri Schivao was denied rehibilitation for years by her so called "husband". She was put into a hospice to die, no rehab, often times the blinds were pulled down with no sunlight. All Michael was concerned about was how fast she would die. This was all testamony from nurses that took care of Terri. 
Tiger I have to make another point on abortion. If a young lady is raped and then she becomes pregnant this is very sad. Rape is an act of violence and is an awful crime. But what did that unborn child do?? So now we should commit another act of violence and kill that unborn child? No, that baby is an innocent victim just like they mother was. Tiger you also still don't understand what point I am making about gun control and abortion/assisted killing. You have to be able to look under the surface to seek the truth. Or you can be a surface dweller for the rest of your life and miss the boat.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but it takes 10 minutes to do permanent brain damage. Anyhow this fellow didnt lose but a few brain cells at worst. Mrs. Schiavos brain was about as good as pea soup for the vast majority of it, with no chance of it getting better.


LOL .............. you're really a funny little boy. Didn't lose but a few brain cells huh ..... you know this how. He had no oxygen to the brain for 6 minutes and only lost a few brain cells ........ is that your diagnoses Doctor MT? Ok lets take a look at the report from one of your credited sources that you seem to like .... CNN. Here is what they said.
"On February 25, 1990, Terri Schiavo collapsed at her Florida home from what doctors said was a potassium imbalance. After she collapsed, her brain did not receive oxygen for about five minutes". Read it yourself.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/25/schiavo.qa/

Well what do you know ............. Terry lost oxygen for 5 minutes and the fire fighter lost oxygen for 6 minutes. Blows the hell out of your lame 10 minute attempt. Will you ever learn ..... :laugh:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

What about the kids they pull out of ice water every year, some have been under for over 20 minutes not breathing.


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## duketter (Nov 24, 2004)

Storm said:


> If a young lady is raped and then she becomes pregnant this is very sad. Rape is an act of violence and is an awful crime. But what did that unborn child do?? So now we should commit another act of violence and kill that unborn child? No, that baby is an innocent victim just like they mother was.
> 
> 
> > I would like to dwell on this a little and see others opinions on this. We all know that MT says one thing once and then says the exact opposite for arguements sake the following time. So I am switching the subject a little. But, I have a question on what Storm said. I am not sure yet how I would feel about this.
> ...


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

buckseye said:


> What about the kids they pull out of ice water every year, some have been under for over 20 minutes not breathing.


I can only assume that the cold slows the body down enough that the oxygen deprevation is slowed.

10 minutes was a figure that I'm fairly sure that I heard on television, I said correct me if I was wrong, I didn't state it as fact.

As to the abortion storm, learn to empathize and you might see just how wrong you are.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Sometimes miraculous things come out of disastrous situations. There is always adoption.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

racer66,
I have been wanting to respond to your question but have been busy with the stem cell thing. I will use your hypothetical situation and give you my opionion on the matter. So a 13 year old girl is raped and becomes pregnant. She is addicted to methamphetimine, and is basically homeless. Is this girl still intitled to have an abortion. The most direct and simple anwer is no. You need to ask the question, what did that unborn child do wrong? Why should he or she be killed? A 13 year old girl who is homeless would be considered a ward of the state. She would live in foster care and be taken care of. After giving birth to the child there would be 100's of couples looking to adopt him or her. That 13 year old girl could then go on with her life knowing that she gave birth to a child and made something good come from something very bad. If she has an abortion than she will not only have to live with the fact that she was a vicitm of a horrible violent crime, but she also killed an unborn child. She will now carry two burdens instead of one for the rest of her life.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

I have two family members that are adopted, co-worker adopted a child a few years ago, the waiting list for adoption is long. It is hard for me to even fathem somebody getting an abortion. Miracles happen every day, sometimes even from less than enjoyable things.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

racer66 you have it figured out. Good things often come from bad situations. My life is a testament of this. We all go through hard times, but it is how you handle these situations that will determine what kind of life you will have. People will often ask the question why does God allow bad things to happen? The simple answer is, "for a greater good." Remember this and you will be able to handle any adversity life throws at you.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

"Storm" wrote:

People will often ask the question why does God allow bad things to happen? The simple answer is, "for a greater good." Remember this and you will be able to handle any adversity life throws at you.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tend to look at that a little differently ... I don't believe God 
"Lets" bad things happen or even good things happen ...

I tend to think we live with free choice ... For the most part "we" make good or bad things happen ...

God is simply that pillar of faith ... to be thanked for our ability to accomplish that which is good and to be leaned on for strength when things are bad.

I have never figured God made my life Good or Bad.

Not to change the subject, but that phrase caught my eye ...


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

decoydummy,
You make some good points. The reason I state that God allows bad things to happen is because God is all knowing, all loving, and all powerful. God can do anything. If he wants to intervene and stop something bad from happening he certainly could. You are right about the statement of free will. The greatest gift God gave all of us was a free will. With this free will you are able to make decisions, and hopefully one decision will be to follow the teaching of Jesus so that eventually you will get to heaven. Or we can choose through our free will to move away from the teachings of Jesus and spend eternity away from God, which would be called Hell. But if everything was going perfect for us all the time we wouldn't feel the need to seek the assistance of God. During the bad times is when many of us are brought to our knees. This is when we seek God. As the old saying goes, "there are no atheist in foxholes." After the 9/11 attacks all Churches were overflowing with people praying. What do people do when there are diagnosed with a termanal illness? Most become very religious, because they know their time is almost up.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Storm ... Not to Hi-Jack the thread here ... or pick and sort of misconstrued debate...

There may be a couple of ways to intrepret the "phenomenem" you refer to ...

If God is all knowing and all powerful and "could possible make anything happen" ... (I guess I never figured God did that sort of thing ... )

Being all knowing, he may well know exactly what each of us here on earth will do or would do ... therefore he knows how the furure will unfold ... (and maybe I'm splitting hairs here)

I guess that small bit of perspective is what leads my belief regarding Gods affect on our circumstance being "none", on each of us here in this mortal existence ... the way I describe in the earlier post by me.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Decoydummy,
I see what you are saying. The correct theological word for God being all powerful is omnipotent. God does know all, that is why we call him God. He knows your every move before you are born, and he also knows whether or not you are going to Heaven before you are born. There is no way our mortal minds can completely understand this. Certain parts of religion and faith are mysteries, this being one. You are also right about us having a free will, but there is another aspects of this and that is called Divine Providence. Divine Providence is a term used to describe God as a prescient guide and guardian of humans beings. In other words there are things that happen in our lives that can't be attributed to our choices. God does give all of us guidance, but we can use our free will to turn the other way. And we all do at some point or another, at which time this is called sin. But I can't give myself credit for all good things in life that happen to me. Credit is rightly given to God, because without him we are nothing.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Decoydummy,
I messed up and used the wrong word. Omnipotent is all powerful, omniscient is all knowing and wise. He is also omnipresent, which means everywhere, at all times.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> he also knows whether or not you are going to Heaven before you are born.


Then what's the point of bothering to even go to church or be a nice person to your neighbor if everything is predestined? Since my final destination is already determined I need not worry about anything. What you are saying is we are like cattle where the rancher decides in advance whether we go to slaughter or stud service. I don't buy any into this at all...........


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

I'm not all that fat, kind of wirery ....I'm looking forward to stud service 

TC


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Gohon,
I never said anything about being predestined. In a real way we are in control of our own destiny. What I did point out is that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Which means God is all powerful, wise, and present everywhere. God does know who is going to heaven before they are born. Only God knows this and no one else. If a priest or pastor talks of certain people be predestined than they are incorrect. I hope this makes more sense.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> God does know who is going to heaven before they are born. Only God knows this and no one else. If a priest or pastor talks of certain people be predestined than they are incorrect. I hope this makes more sense.


I'm sorry but if you say God created life and also say God knows who will and will not go to heaven then you are saying it is predestined. You can't have it both ways.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Gohon,
This topic is somewhat difficult to explain and very difficult to understand, but I will give it another shot. There have been some religious denominations that have preached predestination. They taught that if you were rich and successful, you were going to heaven. If you were poor you were predestined to hell. This is not correct and it is not what I am saying. God is all powerful, all wise, and ever present at all times. This is why we call him God. This is why you can pray in Oklahoma tonight for something, and I can pray in Nebraska for something and both our prayers are heard by God. Only an all powerful, ever present God could do this. God also doesn't live in time as we know it. He is omnipresent which means he is in the past, present, and future. So God can see what happened in the year 1776, 1981, and 2097 at the same time. This is what I mean by being able to tell whether or not each person is going to heaven before they are born. His knowledge of this does not effect our actions. We all have a free will, which means you can choose to make right decisions and lead a holy life, or you can choose to turn your back on God and live in sin. This is what will determine if we go to heaven or hell. This is getting kind of deep into religious philosophy.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

It seems to me that the notion of God and (his) powers winds up with what you said earlier ...

If the human mind can not comprehend it ... how can the human mind explain it to another human mind.

In the end that's where you rely on faith ...

And that is also where any religious person and a non religious person have that final "drop off" with the argument ...

Faith ... not Proof ... provides that final Plank ...

who is willing to walk that plank ...


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Storm, no disrespect but you are now preaching to me as if I were some half naked native in the jungle that had never heard of God. I'm not taking issue in the belief that God knows the future, past, and present or about rich or poor going to heaven, but that you said "God knows before we are born if we will go to heaven or hell". If a person were to accept that then they would have to accept that God prior to our being born/created has already determined who and how many he wants into heaven or hell. That he has predestined those that will burn in hell, regardless of their life on earth. That my friend is a predestined. Just so you understand where I am coming from I am agnostic. It is this attempted literal interpretation of the bible and added personal beliefs that are not supported by the bible that I am agnostic.

With this in mind I simply cannot accept the statement "God knows before we are born if we will go to heaven or hell". Didn't Jesus "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" ?

Apparently God didn't tell Jesus that he had already made that decision himself.......


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Decoydummy,
The human mind can comprehend parts of what I have tried to say, but we can't comprehend all of it. But you are right, much of it comes down to faith. Faith is a gift from God. I grew up with very little faith. In fact I spent many years mocking religion. I was one of those guys who loved to question and doubt everything about religion. Then five years ago it all changed. I will spare all of you my story, but I know without a shadow of a doubt that God does exist and there truely is a heaven and a hell. I also know how much having a personal relationship with God has changed my life in a positive way.

Gohon,
I am not trying to offend you in anyway and I don't think of you as a half naked native in the jungles of Oklahoma.  But you aren't understanding what I am trying to say, but this topic is difficult for many people. You aren't the only one I have talked to about this, and you aren't the only one that has trouble understanding what I am trying to say. Correct me if I am wrong but you stated that you are agnostic. I assume that you believe in some higher power, but not necessarily God? You also stated that you understand that God knows the past, future, and present of all people and things. So then you understand that God knows right now whether or not I am going to heaven or hell. But God did not create me already saying I created Storm so that he could go to hell, this would be predestination. God created me hoping that I would go to heaven, but he gave me a free will to decide for myself if I choose to be with him in heaven, or seperated from him for eternanty which is called hell. It comes down to each person and what choices they choose to make. Does this make anymore sense. And Gohon if you have any questions about religion/theology feel free to send me a pm. I would be happy to answer questions.


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