# M1A - M14



## jk3hunter (Dec 29, 2010)

Just wondering if any of you guys out there have, hunt, or shoot an M1A/M14. I would love to get a Springfield with a synthetic stock after college


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I carry an M-14 every day in my car. It is the best shooting rifle I have ever used. I am buying a Springfield Super Match soon.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

as a truck gun, they are wonderful. Accuracy can very from gun to gun. A standard, while accurate, isn't much under a 1 1/2 to 2" gun. As they get worked over, they get down right scary accurate. I can shoot a less than .5" group at 200 yards with irons when I bag the gun. But I have had mine totally worked over by a smith that knew what he was doing with them.

M14's are gas sensitive just like the M1 garand. They were built with IMR 4895 and WC 846 powders. Going far from that, you will start to bend parts like the operating rod.

Rapid fire they are a pain to hold on target. Slow fire, they are wonderful. Loaded with weight in the stock and a heavy barrel, you can get a really steady long range gun.

They like 147 to 175 gr bullets really nice, but anything over 180 gr can lend to similar issue like the wrong powder.

www.rifle-company.com is a web-forum that really focuses on this platform as well. I have a 5 round magazine for mine as well as a full load out of 20 round magazines.

There are scope mounts available for it, but as with most parts on this gun, it's expensive. For what you can easily sink into this rifle, if you have a really strong compelling reason to do it, spend the money and build up a 280 Rem or 7mm mag savage. You will be miles ahead.


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## jk3hunter (Dec 29, 2010)

The reason i would go with the m14 is because of the potential accuracy, the platform, and the 308 cartrigde. With a synthetic stock they arent as heavy as wood, which would be a sweet deer hunting gun, whether you are walkin or shooting from a stand. I like to use military arms to hunt, it makes me feel more like Carlos Hathcock himself  I plan on someday getting a loaded Springfield M1A synthetic stock with a Leupold M IV mil dot scope. That would be my go to gun for deer out to any range. That platform is also vehicle friendly. Do you guys have any pictures of yours?


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

viewtopic.php?f=104&t=88616&p=704161

You put a scope on this platform and you will have to put on a cheekriser. It's built for iron sights really. Not that it can't be done.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

But, Carlos favored the bolt action.

The M14 is an excellent firearm, and as farmerj already stsated, they can be very accurate when worked over by a smith that knows what he is doing. The six we have here at the dept. are just so-so shooters, but are a blast to shoot on 3 round burst. 

I still prefer the bolt for accurate work.

huntin1


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## jk3hunter (Dec 29, 2010)

Exactly, if the right smith works on it. If I could get one down to 1 MOA that would be ideal! Put that nice scope on it and that'd be awesome. Yes bolt action are very accurate as well, but you can get a semi auto to just as accurate. Maybe not the M1A, but others like the AR15 are extremely accurate. Certain troops still use the M14 as a sniper with great success.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

You are going to spend close to 3 times on your M14 that you would on a decent bolt gun to get it close to the same accuracy.

http://fulton-armory.com/m14rifles.aspx
http://www.smithenterprise.com/products16.html

And I would love to have a bolt gun as accurate as my M14. Anything that will keep 3 shots under a dime at 200 yards is a goal to have.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

jk3hunter said:


> Exactly, if the right smith works on it. If I could get one down to 1 MOA that would be ideal! Put that nice scope on it and that'd be awesome. Yes bolt action are very accurate as well, but you can get a semi auto to just as accurate. Maybe not the M1A, but others like the AR15 are extremely accurate. Certain troops still use the M14 as a sniper with great success.


Certain troops do use the M14, sometimes though it is not by choice, that is what they are issued so they go with it. And the M14's being used as SWS's are highy modified and accurized. There are snipers who prefer the M14, mostly for fast follow-up shots, a very handy thing in some situations. And there are snipers who prefer bolt actions.

And the M14 is not the only auto rifle. Although the US Marine snipers are normally deployed with the M40A5, a bolt rifle, they are fielding a new semi-auto SWS, the M110, said to replace the M39 and the Mark 11 semi-auto SWS's. The M110 is chambered in 7.62 NATO and is basically a modified AR10 built by Knight's Armament Company. So, semi-auto rifles as sniper systems are increasing in popularity, and they do work very well.

Bottom line, if you want an M14 or M1A rifle, go for it. But if you want this rifle to perform on the level of the military SWS's using that rifle, expect to part with a large amount of cash to have the thing accurized.

huntin1


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> And I would love to have a bolt gun as accurate as my M14. Anything that will keep 3 shots under a dime at 200 yards is a goal to have.


They are available right over the counter, but I sure as heck am not going to do it with open sights. Open sights were great for me 30 years ago. Today I am lucky to see the end of the barrel with the bottom of my trifocals.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

M21's (the accurized "sniping" platform of the M14) are issued mostly to PDM's (platoon designated marksmen...NOT a sniper) and used by snipers in urban situations where you have closer ranges and faster shooting.

They can be made to be QUITE accurate (to the point they'll outshoot most shooters ability) but you will pay for it.

For serious long range work, id rather have a bolt gun. If your first shot goes where its supposed to, you dont need "fast follow ups" very often.

For semi-auto, id rather have the reliability of the M1A over an AR. But, an AR can be had at a decent accuracy level much cheaper usually (I just dont like the reliability issues with them).


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

BBJ, I agree with you that a bolt action is a much better long range platform. But the M21 SWS has been issued to both Army and Navy Seal snipers.



> The M21 is esentially a modified M14 National Match rifle. The earlier versions (XM21) had a specially selected walnut stock, but this changed with the M21 to a fiberglass stock, often camoflaged. The XM21 began to be fielded in the second half of 1969 and remained the U.S. Army's primary Sniper Weapon System until it began to be replaced by the M24 SWS in 1988. Some National Guard units and even a few active duty units (The OPFOR at JRTC for example) still use the M21. The M21 is a very pratical sniper weapon maintaining acceptable accuracy out to about 700 meters. Besides the problem that it is semi-auto and sends brass flying, the M21 was, and still is, a very capable military sniper rifle. The 10th SFG, in conjuntion with the U.S. Navy SEALs has developed an improved version of the M21 known as the M25. The M25 was designed out of a need for a semi auto sniper rifle, and it was the weapon of choice for SEAL snipers during Desert Storm. The M21 holds a dear spot in many U.S. Army snipers hearts (me included), and rightfully so.


From here: http://www.snipercentral.com/m21.htm

The instructor for one of the classes I attended was a sniper from the 10th SFG, his issued weapon was an M25 SWS, however, his personal rifle was GA Precision modified Rem. 700.

huntin1


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

predominately, the Army snipers are now issued the M24 SWS which is a Rem 700 LA chambered in .308, but can be converted to .300 win mag.

There are M21/M14's in the system, but the M24 is the work horse of issue.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

farmerj said:


> predominately, the Army snipers are now issued the M24 SWS which is a Rem 700 LA chambered in .308, but can be converted to .300 win mag.
> 
> There are M21/M14's in the system, but the M24 is the work horse of issue.


M24s in .308 are starting to go the way of the dodo. .300 win mag is going to be the predominant caliber as those in .308 come in for GS or Depot level maintenance (or sustainment maintenance as the "new" army calls it). In fact, the M110 (the new AR platform) was born partially out of a desire to "standardize" the sniping platform. There are some that feel we have "to many" sniping platforms/calibers in the current arsenal and need to standardize a platform. I for one think certain platforms/calibers are suited for certain jobs and a little diversity is a good thing if it allows our guys access to specific tools for specific jobs.

The M21 is still widely used (and likely will be for some time), but it isnt so much "standard issue" as it is "special issue". i.e., urban AO's, PDM qualified infantrymen, etc.

Tidbit.....up until a few years ago, the Navy was still maintaining and fielding some .308 chambered M1 Garands from the old M1 to M14 switch in the late 50's.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

the influence a past decision makes and the nightmare future generations have to live with...


> When the current Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara heard that LeMay wanted a new rifle, he had a fit. The Army was working on a wonder weapon called the "Special Purpose Individual Weapon -- SPIW" which was to replace the M14. Since its standardization in 1957, the M14 had gone through more than its share of teething problems. Springfield Armory was the overseer of the M14 into mass production. The first subcontractor, Winchester Repeating Arms, had quality control and production problems. The second subcontractor, Harrington & Richardson, had even more problems getting rifles out the door and to the users. The third subcontractor, Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge (TRW, Inc.) hit the ground running with a new plant and solved many of the problems experienced by Springfield, Winchester, and H&R.
> 
> McNamara was not happy with the M14's tortured introduction into service. He was also unhappy with Springfield Armory. He bet on the SPIW as the new "wonder weapon" for DoD agencies. The SPIW fired 13-grain darts called "flechettes") and 30mm or 40mm grenades. McNamara didn't want to be saddled with an interim rifle in a caliber that was not DoD issue.


http://www.warboats.org/stonerordnotes/M16A1%20R3.html


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## jk3hunter (Dec 29, 2010)

Yes I was aware of the M21 and the M25. Do you guys think that those platforms shoot MOA? and I was also wondering if any of you guys who actually own an M1A shoot MOA and can hit ten inch plates at 500 to 600 yards?


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

Yes, I shoot sub-moa with irons...
That's 3 shots for the M118LR. Done right, these gun is a blast to shoot.

And yes, I have used it out to 1100 meters.


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## jk3hunter (Dec 29, 2010)

What kind of M1A do you shoot?


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

jk3hunter said:


> What kind of M1A do you shoot?


I have a polytech M14S that I found on rec.guns for cheap. I spent 3 years scrounging and hunting for the best deals I could find on all USGI National Match parts from trigger assembly to bolt to barrel to gas cylinder to sights.

I had intended to send it to Fulton Armory or someone like that and was lucky enough to find an old armorer for the MN NG who built these rifles for the states marksmanship team. So I had him build it for me instead.

The closest you could get from SA INC is the 9102 National Match model.

I also have a stock modified for a cheek riser as well as a bipod stud to convert it to an M21 with Scope.

You can do a lot of the work yourself if you are even somewhat handy with hand tools and capable of reading "how-to's" off the internet.

But I would suggest you start with a cheap stevens bolt gun first to get a hang of things first.


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## jk3hunter (Dec 29, 2010)

Oh trust me I know my way around a rifle haha. I have six guns myself, and I'm 19 years old. This will be my post-college rifle I think. I latest rifle I have purchased is a DPMS Bull 20 that I have customized about as much as I want to. I can post pictures of it when it is complete. So you suggest buying a cheaper standard M1A/M14 and build on it myself, much like I have done with my AR? I really enjoy that part about military rifles. Do you think a good base M14 would be the Springfield model?


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

stuff I am talking about.

Making a kydex cheek piece.









Inletting for a bipod stud
Outside









inside









Only picture I have with a bipod installed on it.









Do not be afraid to get down on this gun and get a good cheek weld. It won't hurt and your accuracy will do some incredible things. _(Yes, this is me)_









I would NOT recommend messing with the internals on this rifle. Headspacing and stuff on these are not something you can easily set or anything. Having watched him set my trigger, this is a learned art and unless you know what you are doing and why, not something I would recommend you do.

If you are so compelled, I would even go so far as to recommend getting a couple pounds of wheel weights if you are up to it and oil cast a couple of weights to go into the butt stock. Will help with the accuracy for this thing.

Glass bedding is one of those things you can do with a cheap fred's M14 stock. Worst case, you would have to chisel the stock off if you do something wrong.

But as I said, get a Steven's bolt gun and work your way into a more complicated rifle like this.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Yup. Upgrading an M1A is just a little more involved than slapping modular parts on an AR platform. Most 14 year olds with a hex head and torx head set can slap modular parts on an AR. Some work on an M1A takes a little thought and planning.

Unless you go with one of the new composite/aluminum modular chassis systems (be prepared to have well over $3-4K in it than though).


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## jk3hunter (Dec 29, 2010)

you can get a base, loaded Springfield M1A synthetic stock for 1500 bucks. I didnt think this was too bad


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

found this today...

This will feed your knowledge
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=4 ... ining-Film)


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