# Watch what you eat



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I always wonder about chemicals meant to kill plants or animals in our food products. We have always heard how safe Roundup is, but it looks like it's under fire in Europe and other countries. Safety always takes a back seat to profit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 97787.html


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

The headline said glyposate in Roundup is a pesticide. Nope, it is a herbicide.

Other 'carcinogens'
Toast: contains acrylamide, a genotoxic carcinogen produced as a result of cooking starch-rich food at high temperatures.

Coffee: a byproduct of roasting coffee beans is acrylamide. There have been attempts to force coffee companies in California to add a label warning of cancer.

PVC plastic: emits a carcinogenic gas called vinyl chloride, better known as that not so lovely 'new-car smell'.

Broccoli, onions and strawberries: natural foods containing acetaldehyde, a carcinogen.

Plains, you need to make up your mind, do you want the European model or do you not want the European model?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The headline said glyposate in Roundup is a pesticide. Nope, it is a herbicide.


Shaug a pesticide includes insecticides and herbicides. Also, safety isn't American or European it's common sense. Are you telling me ignorance is American?

As for all those other carcinogens it would appear that your telling us because of them one more will not hurt. I don't subscribe to that mentality.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

http://ascienceenthusiast.com/organic-c ... pesticides

Plainsman you have a strong scientific background, do some research on how glyphosate works and how it is broken down.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

blhunter3 said:


> http://ascienceenthusiast.com/organic-crops-use-carcinogenic-pesticides
> 
> Plainsman you have a strong scientific background, do some research on how glyphosate works and how it is broken down.


I'll do that bl. All I am saying at this point is we need to look again. I hope it is safe because I use it. There are reasonable people like yourself, then there are those who have never heard of a conservation practice they didn't hate, or an ag practice they didn't love. I think both should live or die by there merits or lack thereof. The distrust comes when the defence of any ag practice clearly indicates they would promote any poison if it made them a buck.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

Let's get real here. The USDA is a part of the Untied States government. It is a well known fact that the government is owned by big business such as Monsanto. As long as profits are high using products like Round UP, 2 4 D Nucleoids and GMO seeds. We the citizens of the USA are taking a back seat to many Europe countries that have banned many products common to the American farmer.

As a Bee Keeper we will not have any honey bees left in this country if the trend continues at the rate it is going now.
56% of the USA bee population did not make it to see 2015. Many of mine were dead by August after the soy bean bloom.

 Al


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Alley the greedy would feed us strait strichnine if they made a buck at it. Shaugs sidekick who has been booted from fishingbuddy also would be fast to tell you eat up it's good for you.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Alley, take about 10 minutes and do some research on what is really happening in Europe. Yes, there are countries that have out right banned any GMOs, but a lot of them import GMOs like its going out of style.

Also your comment about the USDA being run by Monsanto, how can you sit there and say the 1000's of independent studies on the saftey of the products hasn't been proved? Take a guess on how long it takes from the time a new chemical is developed until it is released. 10-15 years, and even after that, there is continued testing.
Also can you name any other players in the ag industry or do you only know Monsanto?


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

this question is for Plainsman. do you know how closely related or if at all Round Up and the chemical known as Agent Orange are? here lots of stories from farmers, veterans, etc about their relationship to each other. i use all round up ready seeds in my food plots.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

6162rk, I use roundup too, and I hope it's safe because I don't want to give it up. That said if someone has different evidence I want to know about it.

I wish there was an easy way to follow the money trails on research. Today a person can find all kinds of contradictory science. If you can find who finded it you then have some idea if it's slanted. In the past you could trust universities and gov studies. Not so much anymore. In 1971 I was happy to start a career in science. Infortunately over the next 36 years I watched politics corrupt it, while I watched money corrupt private/independent science.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

No offense intended -but roundup is a thing of the past already. Weeds are becoming more and more resistant to it. That's partly because people wanted roundup ready flowers, food plot seed, sweet corn, exc.

Switch the attention to Liberty, Flexstar, exc... Liberty is absolute crap- probably extremely toxic to everything except weed- especially green foxtail. Flexstar almost kills beans- looks horrible but works....

Give me another viable option and I will spray that. We lean entirely to hard on the phrase 'genetically modified'- humans are genetically modified, through vaccines and chlorine and maybe even solar flares....

Give me as a farmer a better mousetrap and I will use it.... And no, I will not cultivate 6-8 times per growing season. Organic farms have their place- but so do wolves, spitting vipers, and gay pride parades....none of which are going to be in my back yard!

In 10 years roundup will be obsolete though.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I wrote if you would have read it that the USDA is run by the government which is wholly owned by big businesses *LIKE MONSANTO *. There is also Conagria, Phiser and a whole bunch of other big companies.
So it takes 10 to 15 years for a product to make it to market then in the real world 5 to 15 years later it is found to cause cancer birth defects and other problems.

 Al


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I get tired of companies claiming that their products leave no residue. What they really mean is that their product leaves less than the acceptable amount of residue allowed by the government. The problem I see is that if a farmer uses 3-5 different chemicals on his crop while any individual chemical may not leave enough residue to constitute a significant hazard, we ( including the chemical companies and the government) have no idea what the combination of those residues produces and it would be very difficult and expensive to test all the chemical combination possible. I truly believe that sometime in the future much of our land will suffer from long term chemical "burn", increasing the toxicity of our food supply and lowering the yield.

I does form a bit of a predicament. We can die at 55 because of lack of an adequate food supply or we can die of cancer at 80 due to the chemicals that are in the food supply that allowed us to live that long. There are some doctors that believe that every person would eventually die of cancer if they lived long enough, but in many cases something else gets them first.


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

another take on GMO crops could be this. is our wildlife living longer or shorter life spans do to their consumption of GMO crops? there should be some correlation from wild animals to humans.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

As diluted as chemicals are- I don't believe for a second that if the weed barely dies; that it is the sole reason for cancer.

I would be far more willing to believe that McDonald's, cosmetic surgery, drugs (trendy diet pills), and any other crap people inject into their bodies -those seem more realistic as culprits...

No one definitively knows whether or not gmo crops are good for the human body or not- assuming they are is equivalent to kicking the dead dog... If I say chocolate, deodorant, and sex is bad for you -are you going to believe me and give them up? I bet not...


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Give up chocolate? Lets not get carried away. 

My guess is some of these chemicals ate safe and some are not. I had an old friend who passed away from cancer. He was always careless with 2-4 D. I was talking with him one day as he was filling the sprayer. The rim of the 55 gallon drum was full of 2-4 D and his cigaret was soaked. Every time he took a drag it h issed when the fire hit the wet area. Respecting chemicals is the first step in safety of a chemical.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

2-4 d is one of those creepy chemicals...LV6 is fancy 2-4d, neither are my favorite to work with -but, I'd wash my hands with them (diluted in spray form) and eat a sandwich before I'd use wd-40 on a vehicle hinge.... There is something wrong about the odor.

I'm pretty sure porterhouse steaks, cigarettes, and/or bacon by the 1.5 pounds will be the causes of my ending (unless Dougie finds me and explains life to me....) no one wants to live through that.. .

Remember when the grandparents cooked with white lard? Wow! But I know they all made 80plus- one did 93.... I'm convinced constant junk food and lack of ambitiousness is the leading cause of cancer and early termination in the Midwest -I really hope the next generation is Gung-ho! Otherwise, we won't have to worry about the wildlife -no one will hunt anyways. ..


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

walleye...

I agree with you 100%. More of the preservatives put into foods is causing cancer than the chemicals put on them in the field. People wanted shelf life for things. Then add in the "artificial flavors", dyes, etc. Those are all not good for you as well.

But like you mentioned.... It is the lifestyle we live now.... eating until we burst, super size things, give me a 20 oz steak not a 8 oz.. mentality is what is killing all of us. Also the why be active when I can plop down on a couch and watch TV or sit on my smart phone all day and twitter, facebook, talk on NODAK... HAHA. That is how people are getting social interaction... instead of going to a neighbors house for a drink and conversation.

but IMO that is what is killing and causing more cancers than anything.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

The only thing I don't agree with you Chuck, is the 20oz steak analogy. ... Who wants a 8 ounce porterhouse?!?

I know what you mean- supersize it and some ammonium AD please. Two double quarter pounders with cheese....zero nutritional value!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Walleye.... Totally agree on the steak... unless it is a nice 8 oz filet. HAHA

Damn.... now I need to go get a T bone and slap it on the grill tonight. HAHA :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Took the daughter-in-law to Texas Road House for her birthday last night. The ribeye was was a little thin, but still good. I have not been eating as much lately and I was stuffed with the 10 ounce. Maybe it was those buns with honey butter, or all the peanuts. Oooor the humungus sweat potatoe. It was a fight, but I won.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

6162rk said:


> this question is for Plainsman. do you know how closely related or if at all Round Up and the chemical known as Agent Orange are? here lots of stories from farmers, veterans, etc about their relationship to each other. i use all round up ready seeds in my food plots.


Agent Orange is 2,4D (which is extremely common in lawn sprays) and 2,5,5T. The only reason it was deadly to humans was because it contaminated with dioxin. Without dioxin, it wouldn't have killed as many people.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

walleyecandy said:


> No offense intended -but roundup is a thing of the past already. Weeds are becoming more and more resistant to it. That's partly because people wanted roundup ready flowers, food plot seed, sweet corn, exc.
> 
> Switch the attention to Liberty, Flexstar, exc... Liberty is absolute crap- probably extremely toxic to everything except weed- especially green foxtail. Flexstar almost kills beans- looks horrible but works....
> 
> In 10 years roundup will be obsolete though.


Liberty works great expect it requires a lot of water and too many people cut the water rate down, flexstar is alright. There are a few things that you can do to prevent the burning of the bean leaves.

Roundup still works great in a lot of situations. Follow the label like all chemicals. Use when the plant is small. Use crop oil, get a good pre emerge. Spray in the fall.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

dakotashooter2 said:


> I get tired of companies claiming that their products leave no residue. What they really mean is that their product leaves less than the acceptable amount of residue allowed by the government. The problem I see is that if a farmer uses 3-5 different chemicals on his crop while any individual chemical may not leave enough residue to constitute a significant hazard, we ( including the chemical companies and the government) have no idea what the combination of those residues produces and it would be very difficult and expensive to test all the chemical combination possible. I truly believe that sometime in the future much of our land will suffer from long term chemical "burn", increasing the toxicity of our food supply and lowering the yield.


If you have an active soil biology, chemical damage to the soil in hardly there. The soil that is affected is the areas where your biology is poor. Commercial fertilizer will do more damage that chemicals ever will. Dry, non ortho phosphate liquid fertilizers, and mainly anhydrous ammonia. To be able to tank mix anything, it has to go thru vary rigorous testing which I believe is around 5-7 years.

I am currently working with a farmer on soil biology and how to speed up the break down of Tordon on former pasture land, that the previous landowner sprayed the maximum rate of Tordon for consecutive years. Which is against the label.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't think any fields have good soil biology. I grew up on the south side of Devils Lake ( yup and old gst up on the border tried tell me about Devils Lake) and when we plowed thousands of gulls followed for the worms snd insects in the soil. Now no gulls follow the plow because the soil is a biological desert.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Liberty needs a lot of water and perfect conditions to work- otherwise green foxtail will burn but will not die. I had that in multiple fields that I personally sprayed with a row gator. Newer equipment (less than 5 years old), previous experience (commercial applicator license), and followed the label instructions, and had all recommended adjuvants.

The problem was- Liberty needs a blue bird day and 4-8 hours of daylight without rain to be effective in killing grasses, specifically green foxtail.

Flexstar has it's place- but come look at where I couldn't get 90ft booms into an area between a fence and the tree line...the beans are dirty with some weeds, but they are a legitimate 6 inches taller. ...pretty obvious to me that Flexstar is hard on those beans and takes away growing cycle days- but we will see what the combine with the yield monitor says during harvest.

RoundUp is not completely killing waterhemp or red root pigweed unless you run over 20 gallons per acre at maximum rate- which is getting costly. I personally won't waste my money when I can switch to conventional non gmo crops. My yield last year proved that the I out yield Liberty Link and RoundUp by planting non glyphosate crops.... Only other possibilities are magic or I picked terrible varieties, which is possible except for the fact the neighbors had the same results. ...

To be crystal clear or throw in a disclaimer; I did not switch crops because it was 'the right thing' to do... Environmentally or I was worried about the chemicals -I did it because my fields were becoming a mess of weeds AND (very importantly) the cheaper seed grew a crop that out yielded the $350 a bag competition. I literally cut my input cost by half in seed that yielded considerably better.

All this is MY experience -I don't know if holy water rained down or magic bug feces helped.... I also do not sell chemicals or am I getting royalty money. It's just farming.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Oh, I forgot -I agree completely with the observation that good soil is healthy and full of worms.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> I don't think any fields have good soil biology. I grew up on the south side of Devils Lake ( yup and old gst up on the border tried tell me about Devils Lake) and when we plowed thousands of gulls followed for the worms snd insects in the soil. Now no gulls follow the plow because the soil is a biological desert.


True crop land does not have biology like a pasture or CRP. But no till minimum till fields are above and beyond what conventional till fields are. If you want to come ride around with me and can see for yourself what I am working on you might be surprised.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

walleyecandy are you putting down a pre at all? That is where it all starts. Also you might want to look into a fall burn down with roundup and 2,4D. You might want to look into MSO and penetrates. With the penetrate I have been using I am knocking down milkweed, marestail, and roundup resistant kochia with roundup.

If you want to continue use of flexstar, PM me as I am working with some stuff to less if not eliminate the burn.

You are correct with Liberty, needing some nice weather, but this year is one for the record books with all of the rain the state has been getting.

Also yes a field full of work indicates good biology, along with being able to use less fertilizer go achieve the same yield as using more fertilizer. Good biology unlocks tied up nutrients.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

blhunter3 said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think any fields have good soil biology. I grew up on the south side of Devils Lake ( yup and old gst up on the border tried tell me about Devils Lake) and when we plowed thousands of gulls followed for the worms snd insects in the soil. Now no gulls follow the plow because the soil is a biological desert.
> ...


[/quote]

I would enjoy riding around with you for a day. First I have to get aesy from ICU in Bismarck. This is day 55 for my oldest son. It's been a long haul. His boy drew a youth mule deer, so I guess I gove up the wolf hunt and take my grandson deer hunting.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

The only additive we tried with roundUp was cobra- marginal results for the extra expense.

Lambsquarter, red root pigweed, and foxtail are the problem children in this neck of the woods. ... If you have something to eliminate the Flexstar burn- I will use it next year and if it works out, you very well may be rich! I'm taking a small cut of course. Haha


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Yes, we have done preemerge- zero faith in that or impregnated fertilizer-too many escapee weeds... The best results have been standard tillage. Chisel plow/ripper/digger. Spray twice- unless we have aphids. Plow once every 4-5 years.

We have zero roundUp or Liberty corn anymore.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

> To be able to tank mix anything, it has to go thru vary rigorous testing which I believe is around 5-7 years.


That is of little consolation considering many drugs that were thought safe 25-30 years ago are now being found out to be not so safe. While the government and industries may consider 5-7 years a long term test the reality is that it isn't. But we also can't wait 30-50 years for those results so we just cross our fingers and hope for the best.......

We really only have 60 or so years of practical experience with farm chemicals. That's not a lot of time in the scheme of things...

From my limited view it does appear that as time passes it is taking more fertilizer and chemicals to get the same crop yields . Common sense is telling me That means a deterioration of the soils...as minute or immeasurable as that may be.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

The reason it takes more fertilizer is because we are farming less land and still producing what the world needs. We are being more efficient with what we are doing. If I remember right farmers are now feeding 155 per acre and the generation before us was feeding 100.

More people are trying minimum and no till, cover crops, and many more things to help build soil health.


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

does anyone really think the government and chemical company tests are truthful? it's all about the dollar. blhunter you speak of what was or is in agent orange. how much testing was done on that before it was used? i would say zero at best. i think the real testing came for decades after as we have lost many soldiers to the residual effects in human bodies.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

The seed we are using to plant now produces a crop that can handle being planted closer together that anything that was available 25 years ago. That's producing more crop bushels per acre. More fertilizer does equal more end product grains- but too much also hinders production.

You cannot compare 25 years ago with today- mainly because you are NOT comparing apple to apples.... Different chemicals, farming practices, different seed technology, exc...

25 years ago- batteries and paint cans were thrown in a junk pit... Nobody wants that now. But back then -it was common practice.

People in town fertilize their lawns and spray weeds- this is happening 20 feet from a storm drain.... Why aren't we worried about that?

No farmer will intentionally waste money- and anyone that intentionally pollutes, well, they are morons that won't be farming long.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I am really enjoying this dicussion, and finding it a chance to learn. It's a nice alternative compared to the past when some radicals simply accused me of being anti farmer. I may not always agree with blhunter, but I trust and respect him, and am developing the same for some of you guys. Thank you for the information and opinions. Carry on please.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

6162rk said:


> does anyone really think the government and chemical company tests are truthful? it's all about the dollar. blhunter you speak of what was or is in agent orange. how much testing was done on that before it was used? i would say zero at best. i think the real testing came for decades after as we have lost many soldiers to the residual effects in human bodies.


Both products used to make agent orange are available today. 2,4D you can buy at Wal-mart. They have traced the cancer and deaths right back to dioxin. Which, if the party responsible for either making it, shipping it, or using it, would have tested for it, it would have never been an issue.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

I use "Curtail" for canada thistle and most weeds broadleaf.

Plains said,



> Alley the greedy would feed us strait strichnine if they made a buck at it. Shaugs sidekick who has been booted from fishingbuddy also would be fast to tell you eat up it's good for you.


That's not true, I would never feed you "straight" strichnine. 

I like Gabe. You'll never meet a more straight shooter.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Shaug do you just hang around to throw a wrench in good topics that you don't like?


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

dakotashooter2 said:


> > To be able to tank mix anything, it has to go thru vary rigorous testing which I believe is around 5-7 years.
> 
> 
> From my limited view it does appear that as time passes it is taking more fertilizer and chemicals to get the same crop yields . Common sense is telling me That means a deterioration of the soils...as minute or immeasurable as that may be.


Part of what you are seeing as adding more fertilizer, could also be farmers applying more times, but less product per pass.
Instead of throwing everything out at once, some people are split applying it, via side dressing, drop nozzles, foilar feeding, spreading it over the top, fertigation, and a few others that I cannot remember off the top of my head.

By split applying, you are being more efficient, reduce leaching, can actually save money if the crop looks poor or gets hailed out. Also by foilar feeding, you can increase your yield by adding micro nutrients that would normally cost a lot in the dry form.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ooooops I see I mentioned you. 
Curtail is about the best I have used on canada thistle. In a yard you have y o be very careful. I have a half dozen oak, and being very careful I still amost killed them. I waited for the right wind direction which was the thistle at the downwind side of my yard with a stready 5mph. The wind stopped at night about eight hours later. The next morning the leaves on the oak were as limp as cooked spaghetti. It took five days, but they did recover. Ten years later those trees still have a little kink in the trunk from the stress.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Plainsman you do realize that curtail isn't labeled for lawns?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

blhunter3 said:


> Plainsman you do realize that curtail isn't labeled for lawns?


Yup.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Gabe there is a reason you keep getting banned from outdoor sites. First it was nodak, then FBO, and if you have joined that new site since being banned at FBO I wonder how long you can behave and not just be disruptive?

For the tenth time snd maybe more, the Tolna coulee run over ffor many teasons in the past. For one thing science tells us that we are near the end of a 400 year drought. That means that looking at the big picture we really don't know what wet years are. Perhaps in the next 100 years we will see tripple the precip. It has happened in the past and that is why slong with glaciers we have seen the Tolna coulee tun over. My grandfather homesteaded very close to Devils Lake, so don't pretend to know so much more.

This is so like you gst. Post a watch what you eat to have a discussion and learn something and you try to turn it into a six year old grudge match. Other farmers on here have been helpful. Together we can learn, but you don't want that so you try to drive the wedge. I'll listen to these other fellowes because of mutual respect. My hope is they can help me understand the new ag oractices, and I hope I can help them with some things. It's tough when you see everything from a single point of veiw gst.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm not taking sides but I've used a hell of a lot of chemicals 'off label'... I've had a custom applicators license since at least 1996 if we need references. 3 different spraying companies in that time...

Anyways, in that time I have used a lot of different chemicals to kill a lot of different weed, volunteer crops, and unwanted weeds- my point being: if the chemicals aren't going to kill grass, then using it on your lawn will not kill the grass; even though it may not be labeled for lawns....

Melathion is not labeled as a gopher killer- but it works so well, nothing else should be used! oke: .....

And yes -I had a fumigation license, and minnesota also has a gopher endorsement! So, after 100s of classroom technical training hours, I'm kind of a good reference. I was even the Orkin Man for a while -Tempo was not listed as a cricket killing chemical, but nobody every complained when it killed them -or when they spayed it on the backs of cattle. ... Diluted, it's only dangerous to bugs...


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Walleycandy said,



> Tempo was not listed as a cricket killing chemical, but nobody every complained when it killed them


Crickets dig up and feed on grasshopper eggs. If one gets in the house, I catch it and put it outside.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I hand fed a 3/4 grown barn swallow till it flew... Where are we going with this?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

walleyecandy said:


> I hand fed a 3/4 grown barn swallow till it flew... Where are we going with this?


I think the idea was to get you off subject. This has been one of the best discussions on here in a long time. I appreciate your input.

I have been sitting in the hospital with my son so much this summer my yard is really going to pot. I have suckers from some trees coming up 15 feet away snd three feet tall. Once they get that big they are tough to stop. Would you suggest I cut the root between the sucker and the parent tree before I spray so I don't kill the parent tree?


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I wouldn't spray anywhere near the sucker tree. It's still attached to the tree, if you don't want to hurt the tree; I probably would cut it off flush with the ground or smother it with a pail maybe.

Drip application does work very effectively with RoundUp -it kills almost everything if you soup it up a bit. I kill weeds around my grapes with a soaked Q-tip of roundup sometimes.

For thistles- stinger and hornet is very effective...not sure how close I'd use it near your trees though.

Another home remedy is to zip strip the sucker branch -or wire twist it. Even a good sharp spade... just keep mowing it off till it quits trying to grow-obviously don't leave a sharp stick that can poke holes in tires. I'd still smother it personally. ..


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I misread a little bit - at 3 feet, 15 feet from the main tree, dig it down and see how close the root is....then I'd chop it off, maybe even butane torch the root branch.

If the root is at the surface -it will keep throwing suckers. Usually the mower keeps ahead of it.

I'm not a tree expert (even though we put almost 16k of them on 30 or less acres), but I know if they get bigger than your thumb; they get to be problems.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Can I cut the root connection to the parent tree and get away with 2-4d? Maybe if I cut a six inch section out of the root so the herbicide can't make the connection. A bucket over it sounds like a good idea, but I don't want ten buckets in my front yard.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

Depends on how attached you are to the tree... There is the chance of hurting the tree. BUT- trees grow really slow, and 2-4d or LV6 wear off fast so it won't get into the tree even if you spray it directly. The leaves sometimes wilt but usually doesn't kill the tree.

Keep in mind -Murphy's Law.

I'm leaning towards cut the volunteer trees off at ground level and mow off any new growth. Drip spray any irritation weeds.

Are you pretty positive the new trees are root spikes? Or did a tree rat forget where it's cache was?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

There is a perfect 15 foot circle around the parent trunk. I think I will take the angle grinder after the pick with the two inch wide head and try cut the root sox inches below ground and hand oull the suckers. I have been mowing them for ten years and they still don't give up. We make it back to Jamestown ounce in a while to mow and pay bills, but still the lawn has sure gotten away from me this summer.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

It sounds like a survivor!

I'd bet it has a big node on the root at 15 feet all the way around -probably going to be next to impossible to stop it from trying to grow... Maybe dig it down, chop off the sucker, and drop a piece of concrete over the knot...

Best idea I have after a 800 mile day. ..


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

800 mile day???? That was ok 20 years ago, and I can still do it, but it's hard to get out of the vehicle and stand up strait when I get there. My older brother always says he is going to find that guy who coined the phrase "golden years" and choke the snot out of him.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

My semi seat is pretty nice... Wish they would go back to 10 hours on and 8 hours off- this 11 hours of driving and mandatory 10 hours off is for the birds! We use to split 5 hours driving -4 hours off...that was the real deal!

Nobody that runs a truck runs by logs-not if the own it anyways. The tires have to turn to earn.

The only reason I ran the last 200 miles was cause I wanted to sleep at home.

If I knew then what I know now -I would have paid closer attention in school and finished college! Oh well, I'm still the boss and don't have to do anything except pay taxes and eventually die....


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I went to college-------it's overrated. I learned more on the job than I did in college. Classes in a persons major were good, but I am so sick of hearing about the value of a "well rounded education" that I could puke. I think it's a college gimmick to employ professors who teach such wortless classed that no one would take them if not forced to. I more thsn once told my major supervisor I didn't like it when I order a Big Mac and some dumb ahole gives me a fish ssndwich. He didn't much like my analogy.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

walleyecandy,

I know quite a few truckers. I greatly respect what you do and it is as admirable and important profession as any that a college or university can prepare someone for. Most of the goods and services we enjoy are directly related to those in the trucking profession. I haul my own grain, so I can identify with a small amount of all you endure and put up with. People and their driving, especially in the cell phone age makes me well aware of the hazards out there. Talk about defensive driving. I know that I could have been involved in two traffic fatalities in the last year if I had not recognized people on cell phones changing lanes and having to put on the binders and downshift or I would have wiped them off the face of the earth. I can't imagine doing that day in and day out. I truly respect what do and thank you!


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I really do appreciate the recognition north1. I'd be lying if I said 'I love my job!'-but the money is honest and keeps the farm going when farming isn't paying for itself. Last year was NOT profitable farming -too many moving parts....can't control markets and if you sell too cheap and costs go up= no profit. If you held onto grain too long and it drops to Loan Deficiency Payment Price- we very well would lose the farm with what input costs are...

Keep working white boy! Haha

Back to trucking, there are a lot of drivers out there that are totaling useless -and it doesn't matter if they are 4 or 18 wheeled... Too many of the 'Good Enough' generation are starting to migrate into over the road semis. There are articles warning that in the next 10 years; there will be a minimum of 250,000 full time over-the-road drivers retiring. .... Who is going to replace them?! We don't have a generation of Get-it-doners.... We have union employees that take Transgender Acceptance Training (by the way- if they cut off their equipment, remove their Adams Apple, and change their Y chromosomes---only way I'm accepting that!)

It's 4 a.m, I'm babbling! If anyone wants to make alot of $, I will buy the equipment and they can polish aluminum....that's what I get to do on my 'day off'.... There is money to be made- but it will turn you black from head to toe! I'm not kidding -$60k a year would be easy at 3 days a week.


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