# Cole needs a girlfriend



## JayMac (Oct 22, 2007)

I've got an 8 yr old Springer/Boykin mix that I'm looking to breed. First/only litter he sired w/ a boykin didn't make it. He's a heckuva dog, great in the water and hard to beat flushing pheasant and quail. Impecable nose and great demeanor. 60lbs and solid brown. Can't bear the thought of not having one of his puppies down the line.

He's in Minnesota for the fall but may head back down to Georgia for the winter.

Just thought I'd see if anyone would be interested - -


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I am sure hes a nice dog but if you dont have at least 6 people line up to take a pup then you should not be breeding across like this.

The last thing the world needs is more unwanted crossbred mutts.


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## JayMac (Oct 22, 2007)

"The last thing the world needs is more unwanted crossbred mutts."

All due respect to you, Bob - not sure how to take your comment, a bit presumptuous (or antagonistic) on your part, in my mind.

My dog is an intentional crossbreed, and I do have a list of folks who've hunted behind him that would jump at the chance to have his pup. I would never breed a dog without insight into pup placement.

Obviously highly-bred pedigrees are "the ticket" for alot of people - but that's not what I'm about. Just want a companion and a hunting buddy.

My intention for the post was to see if any readers might feel the same way. Not trying to stir the pot amongst "gunning dog purists".


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

A bit presumptuous?

Far from it actually... it has nothing to do with "purists".

Think about how you came across in your very first post on this forum. You came on here suggesting that because you had a good experience breeding some randomly cross bred dog, that we all should jump on the bandwagon and sign up to do the same with you. Nevermind that we have no idea who you are, your dog breeding experience, your hunting experience, your trustworthiness or qualifications on any level.

And we are presumptuous purists?

If you do indeed have a "list" of folks willing to jump at your offer then why the need to request here? Is it an awkward attempt at internet solicitation?

If all you are after is a companion and hunting buddy, might I suggest visiting 5 or 10 various dog pounds. They contain many fine examples of hunting dogs, some of which fit the very bill you are looking for. Most found there are not pure bred, but willing latch onto a good guy looking for love. Furthermore, most are extremely willing to please, and their inbred hunting experience can be brought out no matter what the breed.

The world has enough cross breeds... and the world has way to many unwanted highly deserving dogs who end up dying under the needle because of people trying to cross breed the "perfect" combination dog.

Bob is a super(global) moderator on this site, and the dog forum moderator here to boot... I think I'll throw my weight behind his wisdom and insight.

Seeing as it is your first post... and knowing Bob's strong feelings and treating dogs right, it appears to me that he actually held back some of his stronger feelings....

Just to set the mood for you JayMac... this post wasn't supposed to be antaganistic but rather stern and informative. As was Bob's.

Ryan


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## JayMac (Oct 22, 2007)

Very well put, Ryan. I had no intention of being defensive (maybe should've had my coffee first).

Simply, I was just putting out a "feeler". I've relocated to the midwest from Georgia and have essentially no contacts. My dog has been through undergrad and med school with me, getting out to hunt when we could (more than we should have). Sent him home last year for the winter, but the breeding didn't take. Now I'm back at square one. I had 5 folks wanting pups, obviously would need to reassess that if a breeding opportunity came along.

As you can guess, finding a female in a region where you have no real connections is tough, and the Nodak site seemed a good chance to at least give it a go. I figured no harm in putting the question out there -

Thanks for your input. Sorry for any misdirected/poorly composed statements.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Jaymac I didn't mean any harm just wish I had a nickle for every dog thats been uthanized because someone had a dog they thought a lot of and decided to do some backyard breeding most if not all of the millions yes millions of dogs killed every year in the US come from breedings like you propose.

And just to be clear what you propose has a very slim (zero) chance of reproducing the dog you currently own and love, so give it some thought.

And the fact that you have people that are willing to take the pups a head of time puts you in a minority a very very small one.

I've been training dogs since the late 60's have 6 shorthairs , 2 Eps, and my boykin sitting next to me on the couch.

One of my shorthairs and both Eps are rescue dogs, so I feel pretty strongly about backyard breeders. There are so many really really good dogs from breeders that are trying to improve the breeds that backyard breeding is almost always a mistake.

With your training you will realize the genetics of what you propose will not reproduce the dog you have, and if you think about that its then makes no sense.

I wish you the best and welcome you to the site, I moved from the midwest to Georgia a bad move for a diehard bird hunter.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

I like springers and have no experience with boykin's. If I got one of either, it would sure as heck be from a pure line of dog's, not a crossbreed. We see questions like this on this board all the time. What you have to ask yourself is, " Is this really a great dog?". What qualifies you to say so? You do a HUGE disservice to the springers and boykins by crossing them and making mutts of them. What type of dog did you hope to breed it to, or isn't that important? What about the credentials of the dog you want to breed to? Do you care if it has any? Be careful before you do something like this; in my training years I had to work with a lot of these cross bred slugs because I was paid to do it. Some were good, most were a dissaster. If you're a dog person, please evaluate what you're doing and take a second look at it.


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## JayMac (Oct 22, 2007)

Again, I appreciate the input and note the earnestness in your replies.

I suppose everyone has their own feelings about the finer (and less polished) aspects of bringing new pups into the world.

I'm not one to take constructive criticism for granted, but I think I'll still pursue a breeding should the right opportunity and set of circumstances present itself. (Though this site may not have been the best route to explore.) Not trying to "clone" the dog I have, but his bloodline has been with my family for 3 generations and his brother passed away in June.

To specifically answer gonehuntin', I'm not so sure that I feel unqualified to call my dog great, as the only standards that really matter when you get down to it are my own. (trying hard not to be defensive - remember how strongly you've felt about yours dogs) The whole disservice issue is subject to (strong) opinion, and I guess I was brought up in a different dog culture. I'd be pleased to have the opportunity to pursue either a springer or a boykin. Not worried about papers or written credentials, just a dog that's proven itself (details notwithstanding.)

Thanks again for your thoughts, and good luck in the field.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

A polite and thoughtful post Jaymac. Nice to see some that consider and evaluate the replies they are given, wheter in agreement or not. :beer:


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

JayMac said:


> as the only standards that really matter when you get down to it are my own.





JayMac said:


> Not worried about papers or written credentials, just a dog that's proven itself (details notwithstanding.)


I have been sitting back reading this post and have tried to stay away from it. These two sentences have forced me to throw my $.02 at the discussion.

To the first sentence:
If you are planning to keep and train all the pups that your wanted breeding will produce, this would be a fine statement. I am not 100% sure of your intentions. Many people end up with the dog of their dreams. Some are lucky to get it a few times during our life. This does not mean that others will buy in to the pups abilities. Many people that have a great pedigree breeding have a hard time getting rid of pups. Face it, we live in a world that is driven by pure bread dogs. Crossbreeding is the most difficult way to present the world with your dog genes.

To the second sentence: 
You state you want to have a champion and a good hunting buddy. What is your definition of a champion? Most of us that run in FT and HT consider a champion as a dog that titles. A pure bred dog is allowed to run in these events and no other.

You have what you want in a dog. Bob stated it before, you will not reproduce your dog. Please think long and hard before you bring more possibilities for health problems into this world.


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