# 9mm or 45 caliber?



## avv604

Greetings All,

I am in the market for another air rifle and would like some opinions. In Tennessee it is only legal to hunt small game with an air rifle. So, I am looking to purchase either the Sam Yang 909S or the Career 9mm single shot for predator hunting (considered small game). The predators include coyotes, foxes, and the like.

I am interested in 100 yard shots, accuracy (of course), and enough gun for a clean kill at 100 yards and lower. Currently my Evanix AR6 shoots a six shot, 1" group at about 75 yards (not every day, but most). I would like the gun to be about that accurate.

What are your opinions?

Thank you,


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## remingtoncff

Hey totally get the .45 it carries energy a longer way ( heavy bullets retains more energy).


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## Ambush Hunter

Korean big bores are under-powered. You'd have to shoot light bullets to get as flat of trajectory as possible. If you ever get lucky and get on the DAQ list, get .458 or .308 from Dennis. Some folks, including myself, shoot these babies out to 300 yards on steel and paper targets. Out to 100-150, it will put down a deer (where legal) and hogs.

http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/index.html


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> Korean big bores are under-powered. You'd have to shoot light bullets to get as flat of trajectory as possible. If you ever get lucky and get on the DAQ list, get .458 or .308 from Dennis. Some folks, including myself, shoot these babies out to 300 yards on steel and paper targets. Out to 100-150, it will put down a deer (where legal) and hogs.
> 
> http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/index.html


Greetings AH,

I did not mention it but the DAQ is my first choice. However, I don't believe I will be able to get on the list. I check the site weekly but no change yet. So, my logic is to try to have a backup plan.  In which case, I believe now I may go with the Sam Yang 909S and have it sent to NY for tuning. :sniper:

I have not shot any yote's yet, but I know my AR6 can do the job. However, as you have stated, it will have to be a head shot and at 50 yards. So, I don't believe I have that kind of consistent talent and do not wish to simply wound the animal.

I am going to wait until the end of Febuary or beginning of March and see if I can order a DAQ .458. If not, then I will settle for the 909S tuned. If the 909S shoots a 200 grain bullet at 850 fps, that is still 200+ fpe. So, that will be good enough for a yote.

Small game is all that can be hunted in Tennessee with air guns. I just talked with a TWRA law officer yesterday and he stated the law would have to be changed. All it comes down to they (the state) are unknowledgeable regarding modern airguns. The law officer gave me the excuse that poachers could use air guns since they are quite. ??? I stated that perhaps he is not aware of modern air guns as they can be as loud as a centerfire or rimfire. "Well, perhaps a rimfire but not a centerfire." he declared. The presuppositions are astounding and numerous. 

The 300 yard claim is exciting and perhaps I shall simply wait.  
Danke,


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## Ambush Hunter

Well, this is not just a claim, hehe  Been there, done that. If you search this site really well, there is a 300 yards video somewhere...

http://www.bigboreairguns.com/

Also, scroll down here and watch the video.

http://www.pyramydair.com/big-bore-shoot-2008.shtml


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> Well, this is not just a claim, hehe  Been there, done that. If you search this site really well, there is a 300 yards video somewhere...
> 
> http://www.bigboreairguns.com/
> 
> Also, scroll down here and watch the video.
> 
> http://www.pyramydair.com/big-bore-shoot-2008.shtml


Yea, I have read every (not exaggerating) article on the first link and watched just about every version of LASSO from 2008 and 2009. I would be nice if a LASSO competition could be arranged in Tennessee. If my land was flat enough, I would offer use of it (40+ acres).

I have read just about every article on Jim Chapman's site. I have even read Sniper99's blog postings. And the list goes on regarding big boar air rifle articles in which I have looked through. All of which draw me back to the Quackenbush and drooling over the pictures on his site. 

I have even tried to catch a used DAQ on gunbroker.com, but alas it seems the owners are happy with their purchase.


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## Ambush Hunter

I wish I had 40+ acres :crybaby: I would blow up the mountain just to make an airgun range :sniper: !!!


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> I wish I had 40+ acres :crybaby: I would blow up the mountain just to make an airgun range :sniper: !!!


LOL. In one of the fields I created my own gun range. I have two "lanes," one that is 75 yards long and another that is 100 yards long.

Since I work from home two days a week, guess what I do on lunch when it is warm. Target practice!!


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## Ambush Hunter

You are one lucky guy; 40 acres is a lot of land. I would definitely make a 300 yard home range, down to 10 yards or so :rock:


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> You are one lucky guy; 40 acres is a lot of land. I would definitely make a 300 yard home range, down to 10 yards or so :rock:


Well, it use to be 100 acres, but after a new road came through and family illnesses, now it down to just over 40. 
You have read my mind! Once I purchase a big bore, whatever it may be, I plan to setup a 100 yard increment range.


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## BUTCHER45

avv604 said:


> Ambush Hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Korean big bores are under-powered. You'd have to shoot light bullets to get as flat of trajectory as possible. If you ever get lucky and get on the DAQ list, get .458 or .308 from Dennis. Some folks, including myself, shoot these babies out to 300 yards on steel and paper targets. Out to 100-150, it will put down a deer (where legal) and hogs.
> 
> http://www.quackenbushairguns.com/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings AH,
> 
> I did not mention it but the DAQ is my first choice. However, I don't believe I will be able to get on the list. I check the site weekly but no change yet. So, my logic is to try to have a backup plan.  In which case, I believe now I may go with the Sam Yang 909S and have it sent to NY for tuning. :sniper:
> 
> I have not shot any yote's yet, but I know my AR6 can do the job. However, as you have stated, it will have to be a head shot and at 50 yards. So, I don't believe I have that kind of consistent talent and do not wish to simply wound the animal.
> 
> I am going to wait until the end of Febuary or beginning of March and see if I can order a DAQ .458. If not, then I will settle for the 909S tuned. If the 909S shoots a 200 grain bullet at 850 fps, that is still 200+ fpe. So, that will be good enough for a yote.
Click to expand...

If you want to get on DAQ's list, you will have to check his site a lot more often than "weekly". Try every several hours, and even then you will have to be very lucky. His list closes about two hours after it opens. Tried to get thru using two phones time before last. Constant busy signal.

Even a 100 yard shot is asking a lot from a bigbore airgun (about 12-15inches of drop there). Yes they have the POWER to kill out to 150 yards, but if you are using a 50 yards zero, the slug has dropped about 46 inches at 150yards shooting a heavy slug out of a DAQ. A 200grain slug shot from a souped-up SamYang 2tube (like mine) drops about 4 more inches than that.

Pretty difficult to place a vital shot on an animal using a gun with that type of trajectory at 150 yards. You'd need a rangefinder to calculate the range down to about 5 yards, since the slug is dropping 8-10+ inches every 10 yards at that range. Even if you did get that right, the animal has plenty of time to move after you've pulled the trigger (even though he doesn't hear the shot first, he could move anyways). Shooting steel plates at LASSO is WAY different than a hunting situation. Hunting at 150yards with an air rifle is quite the stunt in my book.

I suggest getting a SamYang 909 or 909S, and having it power-tuned (preferably by WillP...... [email protected] ). You can get over 320fpe out of a 909S, and around 270-280fpe out of a 2tube 909 (I prefer a power-tuned 909 for more even shots per fill, that can still kill deer/hogs/predators).

Be VERY careful who you send your rifle to for tuning. I've received reports of 909 rifles coming back from a tune damaged (damaged stocks, damaged sears, etc) with little-to-no power increase on more than one occasion. Beware.

Don't forget to chrony your gun with certain slugs BEFORE you send it to be tuned, so you can actually see the difference the tune makes. Put the chrony 10 feet out from the muzzle, because the airblast can and will give you false readings. The slug only slows down about 2fps (if that) at 10 feet.


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## avv604

BUTCHER45 said:


> I suggest getting a SamYang 909 or 909S, and having it power-tuned (preferably by WillP...... [email protected] ). You can get over 320fpe out of a 909S, and around 270-280fpe out of a 2tube 909 (I prefer a power-tuned 909 for more even shots per fill, that can still kill deer/hogs/predators).
> 
> Be VERY careful who you send your rifle to for tuning. I've received reports of 909 rifles coming back from a tune damaged (damaged stocks, damaged sears, etc) with little-to-no power increase on more than one occasion. Beware.


Greetings Bucher45,

Jeepers, how many forums are you on!  I have read several of your posts on several different forums. Loved the pics of the hogs. It would be nice if that was legal in TN. 

I think I am going to go with a Jack Haley .458. I called today and she said it will be about two months and they can start on mine. She took my order... so I guess I will go for that. I asked for the gun to be between 350 - 400 fpe. She indicated that would not be an issue as the gun will fire a 400+ grain bullet at ~635 fps. I opted for the thumbhole stock (only $50 more). All in all, she stated it will be about $700 or so (shipping included).

I opted to go this route for two reasons: 1) The exact issue you aptly state. I fear the gun will return damaged. 2) The 909S is close to or over $600, a tune will be (guessing) about $100-200. This way I get the gun I would like and a thumbhole stock to boot. :rock:


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## BUTCHER45

avv604 said:


> BUTCHER45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suggest getting a SamYang 909 or 909S, and having it power-tuned (preferably by WillP...... [email protected] ). You can get over 320fpe out of a 909S, and around 270-280fpe out of a 2tube 909 (I prefer a power-tuned 909 for more even shots per fill, that can still kill deer/hogs/predators).
> 
> Be VERY careful who you send your rifle to for tuning. I've received reports of 909 rifles coming back from a tune damaged (damaged stocks, damaged sears, etc) with little-to-no power increase on more than one occasion. Beware.
> 
> 
> 
> Greetings Bucher45,
> 
> Jeepers, how many forums are you on!  I have read several of your posts on several different forums. Loved the pics of the hogs. It would be nice if that was legal in TN.
> 
> I think I am going to go with a Jack Haley .458. I called today and she said it will be about two months and they can start on mine. She took my order... so I guess I will go for that. I asked for the gun to be between 350 - 400 fpe. She indicated that would not be an issue as the gun will fire a 400+ grain bullet at ~635 fps. I opted for the thumbhole stock (only $50 more). All in all, she stated it will be about $700 or so (shipping included).
> 
> I opted to go this route for two reasons: 1) The exact issue you aptly state. I fear the gun will return damaged. 2) The 909S is close to or over $600, a tune will be (guessing) about $100-200. This way I get the gun I would like and a thumbhole stock to boot. :rock:
Click to expand...

I check in on several forums....especially airgun forums.

400grains slugs are BIG, and sacrifice a good bit of trajectory (especially at only 635fps). A lighter slug (330grains and under) would be a better match for a 350-400fpe gun. In .45, a [email protected] is reputed (says John Linebaugh) to go thru deer front-to-back at 100 yards, and easily goes thru a ram broadside at only 650 I know that. Use as light a slug as you can so long as it is still heavy enough to completely penetrate the animal. With 300+fpe, it doesn't take a lot of boolit to do the job.

No need to worry about a tuner damaging your gun (not the ones I use, anyways). Just make sure it is boxed properly for shipping and everything should work out just fine.

Don't forget to post a complete review of your bigbore airgun when you get it. Accuracy, fit and finish, chrony testing with different weight slugs.....tell us all about it!


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## avv604

BUTCHER45 said:


> 400grains slugs are BIG, and sacrifice a good bit of trajectory (especially at only 635fps). A lighter slug (330grains and under) would be a better match for a 350-400fpe gun. In .45, a [email protected] is reputed (says John Linebaugh) to go thru deer front-to-back at 100 yards, and easily goes thru a ram broadside at only 650 I know that. Use as light a slug as you can so long as it is still heavy enough to completely penetrate the animal. With 300+fpe, it doesn't take a lot of boolit to do the job.
> 
> No need to worry about a tuner damaging your gun (not the ones I use, anyways). Just make sure it is boxed properly for shipping and everything should work out just fine.
> 
> Don't forget to post a complete review of your bigbore airgun when you get it. Accuracy, fit and finish, chrony testing with different weight slugs.....tell us all about it!


For ammo, I was going to start with these (or something similar).
http://www.adventuresinairguns.com/cali ... p-186.html

Your statement is the same as my thoughts. I was told it varies from gun to gun, but it should shoot a 145 round ball at about 895 fps. Here on my farm I have a field setup as a "gun range." I have two lanes, one 75 yards long and the other 100 yards. Once I get my air tank, a few other items, and it warms up then I will begin practicing my 100 -200 yard shots.

A review? Oh I will most certainly do that. I already am beginning preparations for video reviews of my AR6 and RWS 350.


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## Ambush Hunter

TWO months for Haley??? I am on the list, too. It's been four months now and no word when Jack will build it.....


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## BUTCHER45

avv604 said:


> For ammo, I was going to start with these (or something similar).
> http://www.adventuresinairguns.com/cali ... p-186.html
> 
> Your statement is the same as my thoughts. I was told it varies from gun to gun, but it should shoot a 145 round ball at about 895 fps. Here on my farm I have a field setup as a "gun range." I have two lanes, one 75 yards long and the other 100 yards. Once I get my air tank, a few other items, and it warms up then I will begin practicing my 100 -200 yard shots.
> 
> A review? Oh I will most certainly do that. I already am beginning preparations for video reviews of my AR6 and RWS 350.


Interesting choice in boolit. Please do report on their accuracy compared to other stuff. I don't believe I've seen any reports on that particular design.

The R.E.A.L. boolits (also offered by Adventures in Airguns) are a pretty safe bet as far as fps and accuracy are concerned, so I suggest you order some of those as well. I've also had great luck with MaxiBalls. The more designs you have to test initially, the quicker you will get your gun dialed-in to what it shoots best.

You might want to consider going with the .457 barrel, or better still a .454 or .452 barrel, rather than the .458

Reason being, that airguns tend to appreciate boolits sized a thousandth or two over for positive rifling engagement, and a better seal (accuracy, and efficiency). Most slugs designed to drop at .458 are going to drop from the mold a thousandth or so under their advertised nominal diameter. Requiring a .458-.460 diameter slug can really limit you boolit selection, especially when looking for the lighter (200-270 grain) .45Colt designs (which IMO are the most efficient boolit designs for a bigbores airgun).

A .452 barrel will give you the most options with boolits. Just about every type of .45 boolit from .45ACP, to .45Colt, to the heavy muzzleloading conical designs can be found easily in .452.....even the .45-70 slugs (such easier to size down, than to bump-up diameter).

My SamYang has a .454 bore, and likes slugs sized from .4555, up to about .457 the best for efficiency/accuracy. It is not easy finding .45Colt molds that will drop a pure lead boolit over .4555 I paid TOP DOLLAR for an old Lyman #454424, 4 cavity mold that drops slugs at .456-.457 Finding that mold was like striking gold for my .454 barrel. The older Lyman molds usually drop regular alloy boolits at only .454-.455 (the newer Lyman .45Colt molds tend to drop a smaller diameter than the older ones). The newer ones, about .453-.454 with the nominal alloy.


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> TWO months for Haley??? I am on the list, too. It's been four months now and no word when Jack will build it.....


Well, I should be specific. I talked with Reba today and she states it will be about two to three months before they get to mine... maybe. She said it is hard to tell sometimes. She said the beginning of May is a real good estimation when they can start on the gun.

She said it will take a few weeks to make and test out the gun. Then they would deliver it. So I am thinking 4-6 months before I see anything. However, that is my estimation...  not theirs.

Did you know a Haley gun took second in LASSO last year?


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## Ambush Hunter

No, I didn't, that's good to know!

Since I already have .458, I ordered .32 from JH. I need to call them, perhaps they lost my contact info...

P.S. Finally we have some decent non-Gamo threads goin on :beer: :roll:


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## avv604

BUTCHER45 said:


> You might want to consider going with the .457 barrel, or better still a .454 or .452 barrel, rather than the .458
> 
> Reason being, that airguns tend to appreciate boolits sized a thousandth or two over for positive rifling engagement, and a better seal (accuracy, and efficiency). Most slugs designed to drop at .458 are going to drop from the mold a thousandth or so under their advertised nominal diameter. Requiring a .458-.460 diameter slug can really limit you boolit selection, especially when looking for the lighter (200-270 grain) .45Colt designs (which IMO are the most efficient boolit designs for a bigbores airgun).
> 
> A .452 barrel will give you the most options with boolits. Just about every type of .45 boolit from .45ACP, to .45Colt, to the heavy muzzleloading conical designs can be found easily in .452.....even the .45-70 slugs (such easier to size down, than to bump-up diameter).
> 
> My SamYang has a .454 bore, and likes slugs sized from .4555, up to about .457 the best for efficiency/accuracy. It is not easy finding .45Colt molds that will drop a pure lead boolit over .4555 I paid TOP DOLLAR for an old Lyman #454424, 4 cavity mold that drops slugs at .456-.457 Finding that mold was like striking gold for my .454 barrel. The older Lyman molds usually drop regular alloy boolits at only .454-.455 (the newer Lyman .45Colt molds tend to drop a smaller diameter than the older ones). The newer ones, about .453-.454 with the nominal alloy.


Bucher45,

Well, as you may have guess... I am a newbie to the world of air guns. I am trying to assimilate the best information together and arrive at the best decision for the specifics of the gun. When I talked with Reba today, she stated in LASSO last year the gentleman using their gun came in second in the comp. He was using a 300+ grain bullet for the 300-350 yard shots. So, I am not real sure what I would like to do. I know now that it is very possible to make 100 yard shots to get a coyote; however, the majority of the issue will remain with the shooter (more so in my case). What grain bullet should I use, not sure. What style (round nose, flat nose, etc), I am not sure.

I was also looking at the BHD bullets at Adventure in Airguns (AiA) site also. Really, I am just not sure. I plan to purchase a small amount from AiA, from Midway USA, and perhaps other places if needed. Find what works at 50, 100, etc. and then just stick with the one or two that work the best.

What 'ca think?


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> No, I didn't, that's good to know!
> 
> Since I already have .458, I ordered .32 from JH. I need to call them, perhaps they lost my contact info...
> 
> P.S. Finally we have some decent non-Gamo threads goin on :beer: :roll:


Oh, that reminds me. Do you still want to purchase my Gamo Big Cat? :rollin: You know it will be the grand prize to your collection. 
I will sell it to you cheeeeap.  It is funny, I just don't use it much any more.


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> Since I already have .458, I ordered .32 from JH. I need to call them, perhaps they lost my contact info...


You have a JH .458! Well then, you need to chime in regarding the bullet and barrel size discussion here. I am treading in unknown waters and in need of assistance.

Do you have any issues with your .458 regarding bullets?


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## Ambush Hunter

It's DAQ .458

As far as Gamo, I guess I can cut the barrel and blow some darts out of it! :rollin:


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## avv604

Ambush Hunter said:


> It's DAQ .458


Oh, cool. Well, do you have any issues with bullets? What bullet do you use to shoot?


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## BUTCHER45

avv604 said:


> Bucher45,
> 
> Well, as you may have guess... I am a newbie to the world of air guns. I am trying to assimilate the best information together and arrive at the best decision for the specifics of the gun. When I talked with Reba today, she stated in LASSO last year the gentleman using their gun came in second in the comp. He was using a 300+ grain bullet for the 300-350 yard shots. So, I am not real sure what I would like to do. I know now that it is very possible to make 100 yard shots to get a coyote; however, the majority of the issue will remain with the shooter (more so in my case). What grain bullet should I use, not sure. What style (round nose, flat nose, etc), I am not sure.
> 
> I was also looking at the BHD bullets at Adventure in Airguns (AiA) site also. Really, I am just not sure. I plan to purchase a small amount from AiA, from Midway USA, and perhaps other places if needed. Find what works at 50, 100, etc. and then just stick with the one or two that work the best.
> 
> What 'ca think?


When it comes to shooting at 100yards, I guess it all depends on how good of a shot you are, and how well you are able to deal with "coyote fever". Also, what parameters you find acceptable when establishing you Point Blank Range. I like to keep the maximum rise-fall of the slug down to a TOTAL of about 3 inches or so,to help insure that I hit the vitals when aiming for the heart/lung zone. The way I have my 909 set-up, that means keeping the range down to 60 yards tops to ensure hitting the vital zone without having to change/think about my point of aim.

For me, a 75 yards shot would be a really long one, as it would require about 5 1/2 inches of holdover when zero's at 50 yards, using a 210 grain boolit going about 750fps. At that range, the slug drops about 1.5 inches every five yards. At 100 yards, the slug has dropped over 15 inches, and is dropping two inches every 5 yards. Think you will have time to range-find that coyote, and calculate hold-over within 5 yards? Not me.

Was that Jerod's rifle that took second at LASSO? If so, that is a 500-600fpe behemoth with a super-long barrel. Remember, those guys are shooting at 10(?) inch steel plates that are not moving at all. Their rifles are set-up for hitting a ten inch steel target at various ranges (usually ranged with a rangefinder). Quite different from the hunting of game with a vital zone that is closer to a five inch zone (often much less than that).

This calculator will give you a good idea on the trajectory of different boolits, how much hold-over is required at certain ranges, how much energy is retained at certain ranges, etc. Muzzle-rise will need to be taken into consideration with slower, heavier-recoiling slugs (more time in the barrel) but you will get the picture.

A 255grain boolit will be PLENTY of boolit for any game in the lower 48 you care to hunt with it. Well, I'd go 330 for Elk hehehe.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

For hunting, I suggest using solid boolits with the largest meplat (flat nose) possible, that still maintain acceptable accuracy. The BlackHogDown "JR" series boolits hit like a ton of bricks, and have proven to be very accurate out of my tuned 909. Though the barrel profiles of SamYang 909, Haley, and DAQ barrels are all quite different from one-another so "you never know until you find out".


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## Ambush Hunter

I mostly shoot targets with DAQ. Randy Mithcell have a good selection on his site.

250 gr hollow-based bullet is very accurate and zips in low 900s fps. Very flat shooting. I personally don't see any issues with a drop when using heavy slugs. You learn your gun and ballistics of the ammo. That's just a part of ANY shooting equasion. But yes, first you need to test all ammo you can and stick with the most accurate; if you can put that slug where it belongs, does it really matter how much of an arch that slug makes while in the air?

In 1812 Napoleon issued an order to his soldiers to execute any Russian civilian on the spot if found with an airgun. He considered them assassins: no smoke, little sound, and dead or wounded French soldiers 100+ meters away. And those big bores wern't even as nearly as powerful as DAQ/Haley guns. Lewis and Clark have also used .45 and .52 big bores to kill game.
Big bore airguns have a very vivid history!

My DAQ reaches 510 FPE with heavy slugs.


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## avv604

BUTCHER45 said:


> For me, a 75 yards shot would be a really long one, as it would require about 5 1/2 inches of holdover when zero's at 50 yards, using a 210 grain boolit going about 750fps. At that range, the slug drops about 1.5 inches every five yards. At 100 yards, the slug has dropped over 15 inches, and is dropping two inches every 5 yards. Think you will have time to range-find that coyote, and calculate hold-over within 5 yards? Not me.


Well, I guess everyone had their own way of doing things. For me, I zero in the rifle at 50 yards and start practicing. I see what mil-dot works at 75 yards and make a note. I then use the ChairGun Pro and calculate my out my mil-dots and the corresponding yards. After shooting a while with my AR6, I have memorized that 3 mil-dots down is 75 yards. Now, do I have time to remember all of that when I see the 'yote rolling in?  Probably not. I have to call one in first! :lol:



BUTCHER45 said:


> Was that Jerod's rifle that took second at LASSO? If so, that is a 500-600fpe behemoth with a super-long barrel. Remember, those guys are shooting at 10(?) inch steel plates that are not moving at all. Their rifles are set-up for hitting a ten inch steel target at various ranges (usually ranged with a rangefinder). Quite different from the hunting of game with a vital zone that is closer to a five inch zone (often much less than that).


I am not sure, but Reba did say that it was one of Jack's personal guns. You are correct, it a world of difference in "hunting" an 8" red target and have time to range it before hand. I believe for me, it is just practice, practice, practice. I will need to be very comfortable with the gun and know how it performs and what the limitations are.



BUTCHER45 said:


> For hunting, I suggest using solid boolits with the largest meplat (flat nose) possible, that still maintain acceptable accuracy. The BlackHogDown "JR" series boolits hit like a ton of bricks, and have proven to be very accurate out of my tuned 909. Though the barrel profiles of SamYang 909, Haley, and DAQ barrels are all quite different from one-another so "you never know until you find out".


I searched and found Seth's web site but I am having problems finding anything on the internet that shows what bullets he offers. Would you happen to know is there is a website I could look at?

Butcher45... thank you for the comments and suggestions. They are most helpful.


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## BUTCHER45

Ambush Hunter said:


> if you can put that slug where it belongs, does it really matter how much of an arch that slug makes while in the air?


Of course not. But the more drastic the arch, the tougher it gets to place a precise shot for sure. Especially when the kill zone is only a four inch square. Knowing your guns trajectory is the easy part. Out past 75 yards, knowing the range to the target down to the last 5 yards is the hard part.



Ambush Hunter said:


> In 1812 Napoleon issued an order to his soldiers to execute any Russian civilian on the spot if found with an airgun. He considered them assassins: no smoke, little sound, and dead or wounded French soldiers 100+ meters away. And those big bores wern't even as nearly as powerful as DAQ/Haley guns. Lewis and Clark have also used .45 and .52 big bores to kill game.
> Big bore airguns have a very vivid history!


I thought it was the Dutch that were equipped with the airguns......possibly Napoleon, too. Hadn't heard about the Russians using them. The Lewis and Clark air rifle has been said to be one of several calibers.....I don't think anyone knows for sure what is was.



avv604 said:


> I then use the ChairGun Pro and calculate my out my mil-dots and the corresponding yards. After shooting a while with my AR6, I have memorized that 3 mil-dots down is 75 yards. Now, do I have time to remember all of that when I see the 'yote rolling in?  Probably not. I have to call one in first! :lol:


I think Chairgun is designed for skirted pellets, isn't it? Might not work so good with a bigbore airgun shooting boolits with far better BC's.



avv604 said:


> I searched and found Seth's web site but I am having problems finding anything on the internet that shows what bullets he offers. Would you happen to know is there is a website I could look at?


Seth is in dire need of a web-site for sure. If you e-mail him, he can send you a link to his photo-bucket account that has pictures of all his boolit designs on it. He has a nice variety going.


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## Ambush Hunter

Yes, the Dutch and Austrians as well. So did the Russians and the French. But unlike the rest, Napoleon used them mostly for entertaining/recreational shooting.

AH


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## blowgunner62

avv604 said:


> Oh, that reminds me. Do you still want to purchase my Gamo Big Cat? :rollin: You know it will be the grand prize to your collection.
> I will sell it to you cheeeeap.  It is funny, I just don't use it much any more.


Are you serious about selling it? I'd give you $30 for it.


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## avv604

blowgunner62 said:


> avv604 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, that reminds me. Do you still want to purchase my Gamo Big Cat? :rollin: You know it will be the grand prize to your collection.
> I will sell it to you cheeeeap.  It is funny, I just don't use it much any more.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious about selling it? I'd give you $30 for it.
Click to expand...

Naaa, I was just jazzing AH (ba-zinga!). I am keeping it right now for my eight year old. He is learning gun safety with it and having fun just shooting an adult air rifle. I will eventually, someday, replace the trigger and help it out a bit (just a little). I will probably keep it around for my four year old when he gets older and start teaching him gun safety also.

Also, I gave $120 for the thing. Now, I know it is only worth about a half of a nickle... but I want to convince myself that I have gotten my moneys worth out of it.


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## BUTCHER45

You can view Seth's (BlackHogDown's) boolits here.

http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh17 ... s/?start=0


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## avv604

BUTCHER45 said:


> You can view Seth's (BlackHogDown's) boolits here.
> 
> http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh17 ... s/?start=0


Sweet! Thank you sir. Whew, those are very nice.


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