# Gas



## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Anyone know what President Bush thinks about the price of gas? I'm just a little guy and it sure hurts!


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Let us drill.


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## pointer99 (Jan 16, 2004)

racer66 said:


> Let us drill.


yup that's what he thinks and he gets blocked on all fronts. oil wells are being drilled and capped in the gulf because there is no refinery capacity. can't drill in alaska. somebody needs to find some common ground.

pointer


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Wait a minute, I feel like I have a little gas, a oooh.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Hmmm, maybe we should look into developing alternative power sources to gas??? That way we wouldn't have to tear up the few wilderness places we have left and the new technology would help spur the economy. Not to mention we then wouldn't have to deal with that messed up place known as the middle east. :roll:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I'm with ya all the way Matt....There are alot of people who have dedicated their lives to becoming energy independent in this country. The electric cars are slowly coming into the picture, it's funny it takes so long considering they had electric cars over a hundred years ago for public transportation.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

I agree to a point Matt, when companies drill wells they are held to very strict standards, western north dakota and the badlands is a perfect example. The critters and people live and work hand in hand without conflict, when the wells are plugged and abandond you would never know there was one there. I am also for alternative fuels, not quite sure how I feel about ethanol yet, have heard both good and bad about it, hydrogen, wind, solar, lets have it.


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## sevendogs (Sep 19, 2003)

Perhaps he thinks that his investments in oil industry will bring more money. Whatever we drill, Chinese will use it up for their cars and we would not move ahead much. New sources of energy, renewable ones is the answer. However, with Buch it will not work. Vote Kerry until it is too late. Bush takes us back to Middle Ages.


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

I recently bought a corn burning stove,free standing fireplace type unit.
Cheap heat and easy to maintain. One million btu's of electric heat costs about $21 and one million btu's of corn heat costs about $5.They also burn wood pellets that are very cheap compared to other sources.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Curty, what does one of those units run a guy?


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

sevendogs said:


> Vote Kerry until it is too late. Bush takes us back to Middle Ages.


 uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke: uke:


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Hey Remmi ...they are not cheap..$1500 to $2000 but will pay off in about two years. ...Also if your really interested, get one withOUT stirring fingers. Its a new design. Also they have 40,000 BTU's of heat on high.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

And how many of you have the biggest, most humongous pickup or SUV that money can buy?? We are all guilty of being American's and doing it the American way. High prices for energy are good because we are then we are forced to be creative and find ways to conserve just like we did in the late 70's and early 80's. Thats when cars got smaller and lighter and changed over from being steel tanks to plastic. The trend in recent years has been the American way, that being bigger is better because our memory is short.. Higher prices will be bringing back our long term memory and help us become creative again instead of singular in our approach. Even the Saudi's know that there is a fine line between what is an acceptable price for a barrel of oil and what makes people become creative and they don't like people to be too creative!


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Kerry doesn't really own those Suburbans, there the family vehicles, he never drives them. :eyeroll:


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

We drive a VW Diesel Jetta wagon. Fits two labradors and decoys, we have averaged 49 miles per gallon combined city and highway over the first 55000 miles with no mechanical problems. I do have an SUV for towing, late season hunting and the occasional blizzard but put on less than 5000 miles per year. By 2007, diesels coming from Europe will have less pollution including nitrous oxides and particulate than the "greenest" american made car of today and get twice the gas mileage. However, from the feedback I get from Detroit, they are not interested. They replied that the cost to build that sort of vehicle is too high. Until Detroit gets off their a%^, I will continue to buy foreign.


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## Buckshot (Nov 5, 2003)

Okay look at it this way, Detroit is building gas-guzzling SUV's and pick-ups for the consumer because thats what the consumer wants.
Now Detroit decides to shut down and re-tool the entire plant to build European diesels. Meanwhile production drops and demand is still there for pick-ups and SUV's. And they're producing vehicles that they can't sell.
They aren't going to change until economic cirrcumstances make them.

Idea for the entrepreneur, secure some capital and start a company building these efficient diesels domestically. 
Until then don't tell Detroit to get off there a$#!! YOU DO IT. Opportunity is knocking!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

It is detroit's fault that the technology has not been researched enough to be profitable yet? No, I think it was your choice of president that did that.


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## Rick Fode (Sep 26, 2004)

Any of you heard of the Coates engine, simply awesome. Check out their website, they go public next year for buying common stock. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is but if this engine works like they claim, the gas problem is pretty much solved.

http://coatesengine.com/


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

> We drive a VW Diesel Jetta wagon. Fits two labradors and decoys...


I hear you Indsport... I hate to admit it most of the time but I drive a little metro pheasant hunting a lot of the season... no worries about getting it dirty, it gets 47 miles per gallon, I can get everything I need in it, ..and I can really cover a lot of ground for $10. I drive a Ford Van when I want to pull the boat. Last Dec I got stuck near Oakes with my car... but it is such a light vehicle my girlfriend had no problems pushing me out. Perfect.


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

Also, my parents just bought a Toyota Prius... the electric gas hybrid. I really recommend it. I drives like any other car, has plenty of power and room for 4. It has GPS and all that so its a pretty fun car. Can hardly tell when you are using electric or gas or both. So far getting about 55 mpg gallon driving normal highway speeds.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Is it true that the cost of battery replacement for the hybrids is close to $5000?


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

don't know. Could be although I have never heard that high of a cost before. I know they have some special warranty deal which covers batteries for the first 70k... I can't imagine $5000 worth of batteries could go in that car.

This has been Consumer Reports Magazines car of choice in its class just about since its debut so hopefully its a good thing.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

"YOUR choice of president did that."

Realy MT, im sure Bush is trying his darndest to hurt this country Economicaly. I mean, woldnt it be great if Bush Forced all our our Companies to do what was best for the Nation intead of just trying to make a proffit!!!! Then we cold start down the path to an even more extreeme socialist state, and Democrats like you could rejoice because the world would be peachy keen and covered with frosting!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I was actually pointing out that Bush has no real plans for advancing technology such that we are not so dependant on this middle eastern oil. Kerry realizes the potential of alternative energy sources.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT

It is clear that you expect government to be your mama. The way it is supposed to work is the companies start building what you want when the consumer demands it. When people purchase VW like indsport, and metros like seabass, or the hybrids like his parents have, then Detroit will respond. In a free nation Detroit will do as it pleases, and get into hybrids when it is profitable. The whole world was not created to benefit you MT, or just me. Believe it or not Bush is not to blame for you not finding the American made car you want everyone to drive, or the wart on your behind. The only way we are really going to get anywhere with alternative energy is if we can make it apolitical.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

It has always seemed to me that when drastic change was needed, as it is now, it was the governments responsibility to do something about it. In the past they always have, I would like to see that tradition continued. People have been buying foreign cars for years, it has changed nothing. It is the governments job to do what is in the interest of the people. If they find a way to stop the gas gouging, I will not be the only one to benefit from it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MT

Not true about foreign cars didn't change anything. In 1984 I purchased a Chevy four cylinder that was the biggest piece of junk I ever poured money into. Five Toyotas later I went back to a GMC. They are vastly improved over the vehicles produced in America in the 1980's, no comparison. Why? Healthy competition I would guess.

I would like to see gas gouging done away with also. The problem is who do you go after, you are the only person who knows who is to blame. I would guess that the middle east is the most responsible. Then the oil companies , then who? We don't have enough plants to process the crude. No foresight , or poor planning I'm not sure, but again the power company problems. When we have more energy efficiency and alternate energy sources the middle east can eat their sand. Meanwhile, although through investigation the government may be able to control some price gouging it is not the governments responsibility to solve every problem in our lives.

Our attitudes about this depend on what we think government is responsible for. The far right believes in no control for business, and the government is to protect us from foreign invasion. The moderate right believes in protecting it's citizenry from unfair business practices and foreign invasion. The moderate left believes in more government entitlements, and control of many business practices. They are not sure how they feel about foreign invasion. The far left believes in what the moderates do, plus tax the working for redistribution of wealth, and perhaps believes we would benefit from a foreign take over (UN). Especially if former president Bill Clinton was secretary general.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

To Buckshot, the same companies that are producing diesels for Europe, (VW, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan and Honda) plan on larger trucks and SUV production for the american market with greatly increased gas mileage over their Detroit counterparts. So the consumer can "get what they want" while Detroit fiddles and says they can not meet gas mileage standards with existing technology. If you had a choice between a standard Detroit half ton pickup with 20 mpg and the new diesel with 30 mpg and the same payload, safety and all the rest, which would you buy?

ps: there are already diesel cargo vans for city hauling in Europe that get over 50 mpg in the city. One very small VW not available here similiar to the Chevy Metro gets almost 80 mpg on the highway.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

> If you had a choice between a standard Detroit half ton pickup with 20 mpg and the new diesel with 30 mpg and the same payload, safety and all the rest, which would you buy?


Why do diesel engines cost so much more?


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

I can think of a couple of things as to why diesels cost more. First, they are built much stronger than gasoline engines since higher compression leads to stronger crankshafts, piston rods, and thicker blocks, and are expected to last a considerably longer time than a gas engine. In the service manual that came with our vehicle, the maintenance schedule goes to 180.000 miles! Second, some manufacturer's have a higher markup for diesels than gas engines. However, on our VW, the diesel cost was only $800 more than the gas engine.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Oh, please don't tell me you would buy a foreign made vehicle and put our poor workers out of a job. There's never as simple an answer as we would like to have, is there? MT, if you're serious about making a change, get off your a$$ and make your own hybrid. Don't always expect the government to do everything for you.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

sevendogs said:


> Vote Kerry until it is too late. Bush takes us back to Middle Ages.


Remmi_&_I

I too would like to chime in on that quote. You see sevendogs unwittingly made his wishes known. Read closely. He wants you to vote for Kerry UNTIL IT IS TO LATE. Once the guy gets in it will definitely be to late. To late for gun owners, to late for the unborn, to late for the Iraq people, to late for America.

I can only hope that Bush does take us back a ways. Progress is not always in the correct direction. We need to go back to a point where we can take the right fork in the road.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

It occurs to me that "Progressive" in the political field usually means liberal. While I certainly want for us to make progress, change for change's sake has never been a good thing. If you're going to change something, make sure the change is actually better.

Only in America... do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: "Poli" in Latin meaning 'many' and "tics" meaning 'bloodsucking creatures.'


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