# 2 cartridge questions



## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Hey! How are you guys doing today! Iv got 2 questions for you all.

1) The 17 Remington--Don't know a LOT about this cartridge, except that its supposed to be great for coyote, and you can supposedly load it to push a bullet at over 4,000fps. My question is this: With a good shot, Heart/lungs/head, how far out can you take a Coyote? Could you do it out to 200 yards?

2) The .338 Remington ultra Magnum--Don't really know anything about this cartridge except that it kicks really badly and you shouldn't have problems on most American Game. My question is, does it have any appreciable energy over the 300 Winchester magnum after 200 yards? And if it does, how much?

In closing, thank you all for your time, and for your posts.


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## t_lowe_308 (Oct 31, 2004)

i dont know anything about the 338. but the 17 can be loaded at 4000 fps and it is a good coyote gun. but if the wind is blowing at all it makes a 200 yard shot very difficult.


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## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

Hi, great day. Anyways in my opinion, velocity will be comparable between .300 win mag and .338 rum from the muzzle all the way to 500 yards, within 100 fps or under. Energy or ft lbs, will be the difference. With the .338 having around 1000 ft lbs more at the muzzle, and around 500 ft lbs more at 500 yards. imo, especially for hunting big game in the united states, .300 is more efficient then the .338 all around, as it still has massive amount of power. And the cost/kill ratio is much better. Hope I answered your question.
:sniper:


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Heh, yea. Im going for power at distance, even if the 30 cal has better balistics. iv got middle of the road guns ( rifle fanatic!!!) but basiclay wanted a big gun and a little one. Because the 10/22 is to small for yotes, and id like to have something bigger than a .303 for big stuff. This Crazy Canadian Guy i know hunts Moose and Caribue with his AG-42b( semi auto 6.5x55 Sweedish Smiper rifle of WWIIera). iv gat an m38 mauser chambered for that round, but i dont know about using something smaller than 30 cal on big stuff....

The reason i ask is because I may be moving to Montana over the summer to go help my Cousin Jane out on her ranch. and the Montana DNR Said theyv got Grizzle Bear! Can never have to much gun in bear country, espeialy around livestock that the bear may see as food!


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## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

My .300 would crush a bear  
:sniper:


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

You shure thats enough? i dont know...may have to go up to a .458 remington.

.300 winchester mag, or RUM?


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

300 is enough for bear


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## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

sure, and its better if you reload your own also. more power


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

"sure, and its better if you reload your own also. more power  "

I like the way you think! i'll be drop'n those pesky Girzzle bears like a sack of Bricks.


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## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

Yup my .300 win mag reloads have more energy at 500 yards then factory .338 rum I can guarentee that


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

hell trooper if you're worried about bear get a .50 alaskan, designed for bear.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Didnt know you were alowed to use .50 cal on anything; or is that only if your intentionaly hunting them?

i think ill go with the .300 Win Mag. i want to be able to find ammo for it in a small town.

May be nice to get a Super Red hawk in 480 Ruger...then have it converted to .475 linebaugh. that would be good for a bear when i cant carry a rifle.


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## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

mr.trooper said:


> Didnt know you were alowed to use .50 cal on anything; or is that only if your intentionaly hunting them?


depends on the state.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Sniper, I can't argue with most of your information, but I will RESPECTFULLY disagree on one point. On hunting anything, I know the 300 is great, but if facing that bear, I have read repeatedly that a 338 is better than a 300 anything. I read one source that stated that while the 338-06 is at the light end for bear, it's still better than any 30 cal. Personally, I feel better with a 35 cal, but of course, I'm a coward. I know the paper energy of the 300 is more, but there is some undefinable advantage in the bigger, heavier, even if slower bullet. My opinion, for what it's worth. Agreed, the recoil will match what comes out the front. Agreed, slower bullet means not as good trajectory. Of course, I'm still a fan of the 45 acp over the 9 mm. Same reasons.


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## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

yup but 300 will still kill a bear, especially the hot loads I pump out. And about bullet size it really depends on the bullet type, for penetration and such. It depends how much confidence you have in your shot placement I guess, remember, people hunt bear with bows


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## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

.17 is a great little cartiridge for preditors if it isnt windy...No wind at 200 yards dead coyote, but facture in a 15 mile and hour cross wind well the bullet drifts a lot...IN our experiance anyways...My dad and i had two of them a year ago and we liked shooting them and they were effective as long as you werent shooting in windy situations..But lets face it in ND wind is always a major concern 25, 30, 40, even 60 mile an hour winds happen a lot in ND..If it were me I would go straight to the 22-250 for varmints.. It is flat shooting and has the range and speed to handle all situations..Try a 55 grain soft nose..We shoot remington 700's in the 22-250 i would recomend it highly...Just my 2 cents...
Bandhunter


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Sniper, as I said, I'm a coward.  You're right about hunting with a bow. I'm just not one of those x-sport guys, I guess. It may be years before I have to worry about a long shot, anyway.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

17 Remington, Yes it is easily a 200 yard coyote gun, but *a high pressure 22 caliber center fire rifle cartridge will deliver better performance on coyotes!*

338 Remington Ultra Magnum is a very powerful cartridge effortlessly exceeding the 300 Winchester Magnum, actually there isn't anything to compare. *The 338 Winchester Magnum will give you all the energy required for any North American game up to including the largest bears.*

If you are looking for a excellent 30 caliber magnum, *look at the 308 Norma Magnum or 30-338 Winchester Magnum for 300 Winchester Magnum results with less powder and longer case neck for holding bullets better than the 300 Winchester Magnum.*


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I've actually been considerint the 358 Norma Mag. Like I said, I like big and heavy. Also considering 375-06.


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## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

My buddy made a 358 norma with plain iron sites, shoots great.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I have a 358 Win carbine built on a Mauser small ring. I always figured it would kick like a mule, but it's not realy bad. A little loud with that short barrel, but recoil wasn't enough to knock me out of a tree stand.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm not sure, but I think people are interchanging 338 Winchester magnum, and 338 RUM. The most popular back up rifle for guides in Alaska is the 338 Win mag, but that is swiftly being replaced by the Marlin guide guns in 45/70 and 450 mag. The 338 Win mag is superior to the 300 mags at close range, but Sniperpride is right, at 500 yards the 300 Win mag has more energy. The reason for this is that the 30 caliber bullets have a much higher ballistic coefficient.

The 338 RUM has tremendous energy, but also sheds that energy quickly because of poor ballistic coefficient. Many long range shooters use the Sierra 300 Match King to retain energy better, but I am insure how it performs on deer. Some claim it retains enough energy for humane kills to 1500 yards. I think I will find out how the Match King works on deer this week-end. The recoil of the 338 RUM is 96 foot pounds. Compare that to 19 foot pounds for a 30-06 and you may decide the punishment isn't worth it.

M Tiger your not being very consistent. On another thread you say the best all around caliber is the 30-06 because it is good for anything in North America, yet you question Sniperpride when he says the 300 is sufficient for bear. The 300 Win mag with good hand loads as Sniperpride suggested is indeed sufficient for even the large bears. I am pushing my 300 Win mag to 4350 foot pounds of energy. I wouldn't have one if I didn't think it was one of the finest and efficient cartridges on the market. Very accurate also, or the armed forces wouldn't be using it.

I notice the armed forces are backing away from the 338 Lapua. The use the 308 for short range sniper work, the 300 Win mag for longer range, and they have retained the old behemoth 50 caliber. I noticed in one reloading manual that the 338 RUM and the 338 Lapua both maxed out at 3002 fps with a 250 gr bullet.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> I'm not sure, but I think people are interchanging 338 Winchester magnum, and 338 RUM. The most popular back up rifle for guides in Alaska is the 338 Win mag, but that is swiftly being replaced by the Marlin guide guns in 45/70 and 450 mag. The 338 Win mag is superior to the 300 mags at close range, but Sniperpride is right, at 500 yards the 300 Win mag has more energy. The reason for this is that the 30 caliber bullets have a much higher ballistic coefficient.
> 
> The 338 RUM has tremendous energy, but also sheds that energy quickly because of poor ballistic coefficient. Many long range shooters use the Sierra 300 Match King to retain energy better, but I am insure how it performs on deer. Some claim it retains enough energy for humane kills to 1500 yards. I think I will find out how the Match King works on deer this week-end. The recoil of the 338 RUM is 96 foot pounds. Compare that to 19 foot pounds for a 30-06 and you may decide the punishment isn't worth it.
> 
> ...


Oh plainsman you can find fault in anything. I was not denying that the 300 is not sufficent for bears, in fact in another thread I think I said that it was (could be wrong). I was simply suggesting a round that I had read about and was said to be the perfect round for killing a charging bear.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> 300 is enough for bear


There is the statement that threw me.



> I was simply suggesting a round that I had read about and was said to be the perfect round for killing a charging bear.


Gocha, I agree in that situation. For charging bear they don't make firearms to big. The only thing I would like better would be a good pair of climbing spikes and a tall tree.


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## scissorbill (Sep 14, 2003)

Bandhunter, Brilliant spelling you are an absolute genius.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Charging bear? I kind of favor the gatling gun in 45-70. Something of the sort.


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

scissorbill, not necessary. Back off, respect others or leave the forum. None of us likes a smart alec who puts others down. We all understood what he meant.


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## scissorbill (Sep 14, 2003)

Aussie shooter, I dont need to be threatened by you, between you and Bandhunter you have the IQ of a pencil eraser.


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

You seem like an amusing person scissorbill. For the record, I don't remember threatening you. What I see in you is someone with a remarkably low self esteem, and so to make yourself feel like a big man (possibly the reason you got into shooting in the first place) you like to bring people down. Let me tell you who you are: you are 16 years old, you live with your parents and you shoot your dad's guns. In school, kids pick on you, but you don't let that get you down. You just go onto sites like this and you can be whoever you want to be.
And judging my IQ on a little statement telling you to grow up? My goodness, how pathetic. OK let me tell you scissorbill, we have dealt with your type before, every other user on this forum is with me on this, and if you want to act like you are, we don't want you here. Get out. Seriously. When in doubt, read the Terms of Agreement of use for this forum.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

scissorbil, where did you get that chip on your shoulder.


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

Thank you Steve my man. :beer: We definitely have to hunt together some day my friend, your country or mine, I'm easy either way. :sniper: 
Scissorbill, you've got no friends around here, sorry mate. I had a read of your other posts, you really do have a chip on your shoulder. Grow up.


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## Stealth (Jan 15, 2004)

Scissorbill (or whatever you get the idea)

I don't understand your completely random comment to Band hunter. It had nothing to do with the subject at hand. When you can't find a fault in someone's argument you turn to childish comments just to nit-pick. What's the big deal anyway? God forbid that someone spell a word wrong, the world might come crashing down on our heads. Most people here conduct mature arguments about the matters at hand and stay on topic. Not only was your slander off the topic it was rude and disrespectful. I would see no fault in offering that individual an apology for your comment. If not, why are you even on this board? It's a hunting board not a grammar correction board. Good day to you, hope you'll think about the valid points made.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Come on guys...hes been hunting Grous for 48 years, and waterfouling for 40 years! :roll:

BTW: thanks to all of you for answering my questions. One last one if you would.

--What would you rather have in a lever action: .357 mag, 44 mag, .45LC, or .45-70?


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## Stealth (Jan 15, 2004)

From what I've read and heard the .45-70 is hard to beat. Cast your own bullets and it will make a truly lethal combo. I've seen a TC Contender pistol chambere for this round, the recoil must be pretty fierce!


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"--What would you rather have in a lever action: .357 mag, 44 mag, .45LC, or .45-70?"

44 mag but frankly I'd rather not have a lever action at all!


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## scissorbill (Sep 14, 2003)

Aussie Shooter, you have really got thin skin, you need to lighten up and relax. I was commenting on horrible spelling and said nothing about you. Also, Trooper I have 59 years of gous hunting and 48 yerzof watturfoulin.By the way bandhunter i to new what yu ment butt dont no why u cant mayk a bettur attemp to spel korektley.


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## i_love_177 (Oct 20, 2004)

hey scissor dude look get over urself just get over it and about the charging bear question i would like to have a bazooka lol just joking i would carry a .45 handgun cause a .45 is slow enough to rip peoples arms off let alone a bear and the lever action question .45 lever action hands down because yet the range is limited if ur in thick brush and u shoot the bullet will still go pretty good even if a branch is in the way


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

Scissorbill, I have quite a thick skin really. It gets my goat, along with all these other people, that someone would bring someone down for something as utterly ridiculous as spelling. Can you see that no-one is on your side here? I'll give you some fatherly advice son, because you have just confirmed my suspicions you are a 16 year old brat. Apologise to bandhunter for your unnecessary comments. Then you may begin to earn some respect here. Not before. If there's something that I will never tolerate it is bringing people down. What right do you have to comment on someone's spelling? Now please mate, humour and tell me how accurate I was with your age. Perhaps you're even younger. Let me tell you, if you don't change your snotty attitude son, you won't get far in this life. No wonder all the kids pick on you in school. We would like to be your friend here, but you must change your outlook. Let us know when you're willing to do so.

Hahahaha kudos on the quotes at the end of your posts Mr Trooper. IQ of a pencil eraser?? Kids these days... :beer:


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

In respons to the lever action question, I'd prefer the 44 mag. In Australia the 30-30 is the most popular lever action, followed by the 44 mag. We mainly hunt pigs with that calibre here, but it depends on your application I suppose.


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## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

Back to topic, bottom line is that having a bear charge at you, no matter what caliber you use, you wont stop it if you dont hit it correctly. Whether .300 win mag or .338 rum.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Or 50 BMG. You got that right.


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## Guns are Killing Machines (Nov 20, 2004)

Look, Aussie Shooter. You are a perpetrator of double negatives. You lecture Scissorbill on jumping all over people for little things, and yet you attack him because he makes fun of someone. The guy was spelling things wrong, after all. Scissorbill's words are as valid as anyone else's. Who are you to decide who can say what? Nobody. You talk about what a macho guy you are, and try to put him down (something else you claim to be against), only to make yourself feel better, as in you said inyour own post. You do not make any responses above Scissorbill's, they are just as asinine. You say everyone is on your side, and I am only telling you:

WRONG AGAIN, YOU FAT LOSER!


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

...Whats with the name?

And whats with your beef with Aussie? since you only have one post...im assuming you made an accoiunt just to yell at Him? or are you scissor bill? Dont Hi-jack my thread and turn it into a name-calling contest. :******: Scisor jumped on the other guy about spelling..SPELLING. then he startes calling people names. READ MY SIGNITURE FOR AN EXAMPLE. when Aussie tells scissor to back off, scissor gets up in his face saying " i dont have to be threatened by you". GET off my thread. I wont have you yourself and you perpetrating you petty arguments on my watch. GOOD BYE. GO HOME.

Shall we continue te discussion? how many of you guys have actualy hunted Bear, and if you have what Calibre did you use?


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Mr Trooper, thanks. You saved me the trouble. Update, I finally shot that 338-06 JDJ. Let's just say, I think it's enough.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Enough for what? Gophers.     

:beer:

huntin1


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Yep.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

HEH, Yea...Gophers 

Small rodents asside, has anyone got any bear hunting stories to relay?


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

Guns are Killing Machines. What a great way to give shooters a positive image.

Thank you Mr Trooper. I think you might be right, its scissorbill on a different account. There's too much passionate defence for scissorbill for Guns are Killing Machines to be anyone else.

Guns are Killing Machines and scissorbill, whether you are the same or not, two people have already supported me and been against you since your post. Wrong again? I think not. And fat loser? I had to laugh at that one! It's amusing that you find it necessary for your post, chiding me for (apparently) insulting scissorbill, then calling me a fat loser! My goodness, time to grow up son.

Mr. Trooper is right. This is his thread, he doesn't want to mess around with kids like you. Get lost. You're not wanted. The people have spoken.

Guns are Killing Machines? My goodness. :eyeroll:


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

I also must apologise to you Mr. Trooper. I'm sorry this petty argument had to be interrupting your thread, I hope we can get on with it without anymore trouble. Thanks for helping to keep this forum an interesting place to be. :beer:


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## firebird0095 (Dec 10, 2004)

First - Hello to my fellow Hoosier.

Second - I have never been bear hunting (yet) and I do not pretend to be an expert. I did however go to Alaska this year on a fishing trip, and had a pretty good conversation with our guide about guns and calibers and all of the usual. I asked him what, in his opinion, was the gun to get if I was to go back and hunt with him. His reply took about two seconds and he said a winchester model 70 in 300 win mag. He backed this up by saying that the 300 is plenty for everything in that country and it gives you a little more range and power than you really need. Now - this guy is actually up there hunting bear and moose - I believe him over anyone else who does not have this experience. His son uses a 30-06 and took his first moose at the ripe age of 7 with it. A 30-06 at 200 yards is the same as a 30-30 at the muzzle, and it seems like if a guy were to hold a 30-30 to a bears fur - the bear would probably be pretty dead. As far as a charging bear is concerned - that is what I pay guides for - they know what the hell they are doing, and in the case of Alaska he would be standing behind me shooting his 45/70 or 375 HH. No matter what you choose - shot placement is paramount. Anyway - I am searching for a rifle now too, and thought I would share what I have learned. I found a great site that has a lot of sensible information on it. Go to www.chuckhawks.com - click on the gun and go to the rifle page. He has reviews of calibers as well as recoil and trajectory tables. There is a membership side of the page, but if you look around on his free pages you will find everything there. The charts are at the bottom of the rifle page. Read the article entitled cannons in the field. Ok - I just read that and it kinda sounds like and advertisement for his site - but either way - I found the site helpful.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Thanks FireBird. The 45-70 and 300 Winchester are things iv been considering.

I dont know why this came to mind, but a while ago i saw a winchester 1907'ish autoloader on GunBroker for about $250. Decent condition, about 50% original finish. But i passed t up because i saw it fired .351 Winchester Autoloader. id never heard of that, so i said forget it. Recently, however, iv come to realize that 35 cal. bullets arnt that rare, and Cabelas actualy sells NEW .351 Winchester loads. now i feel stupid :idiot: The gun looked nice also. Like an old lever action with a box mag poking out where the lever would be. O-whell. maybee ill see another one some day.


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## the_rookie (Nov 22, 2004)

Aussie Shooter when you told scissorbillss that he lived with his parents that was great show him whos who


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## wompus_cat (Dec 10, 2004)

Wow what a long post session, Ill bring it back to life
Just my 2 cents worth, I've never been bear hunting, but if I was to, I would not be afraid to shoot any bear with my 338-06, believe it or not 8) 
Why? Well for starters, according to my book data, the 338-06 w/225gr bullets, only starts out 300 fps slower than the 338 rum! It has tons of energy, and a little more frontal bullet area than a .30. 
As for a charging bear (guide gun) I think the gun y'all left out is the good ol' fashioned 12 gauge w/ 00buck. That'll get you shot placement


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Realy?

i thought only long-bearded Olde Coots took bear with a 12guage ( a REAL 12 GUAGE...not one of these new-fangled Bolt actions firing 3 1/2" sabots :roll: )

What i HAVE been looking for as far as a shotgun is a 10 guage. the only ting is, i cant find one that is satisfactory FOR THE LIFE OF ME. Eveory 10 guage i see is either a waterfoul gun wth bird sights (poo) or a single shot with super full turkey chokes.

what i WANT is a 10 guage pump with rifle sights and screw in Cylinder and Full chokes. Cylinder for slugs, and full for some 00 Buck shot.

Guess what? NOONE has a rifle sighted shotgun barrel that SMOOTH BORE. they are all fifled. the only thing iv found so far that meets bolth requirements is a Stoger 2000 with its smooth-bore slug barrel, but its a 12 guage! :******:

maybee its because im to extreem in what i demand out of a gun...


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I would suggest the Browning BPS in 10 Ga. Has screw in chokes so you can change that as you wish. Need sights, put on a receiver mount and a red dot scope. I think you'll be fixed up fine. Need to be a little long armed, though. If I remember, you are, right?


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Well my left arm is 28", wingspan is 77"...

What do you mean by long armed?

iv looked at the BPS, but i saw that it just had bird sights, so i went elseware. I havnt seen any rail maunts for them, so i didnt think of using a red dot...

If you could recomend a mount for me? If someone knows of a weaver style-rail it would help alot. the Red dot hat i have wil only mount on a weaver style rail, and id rather not have to buy another one.

on a side note, what is your impression of Stoger shotguns? i would like to get a good General purpose 12 guage aalso. Iv got an A5 in twelve guage, but its such a fine gun that i am afraid to take it to the field. taht and its an antiqe, so id rather be able to preserve it and not worry about scraches or dings.

Any help is apreciated!!!


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

A friend of mine has one and he notices he has to streeeetch out a little for the pump arm. A 3.5" shell makes a little longer action and it's enough for him to notice. If you have a good reach, it shouldn't be a problem, although you might have to get used to it. I'm drawing a blank this morning (haven't had my coffee, yet, ) , but I'm always seeing those receiver mounts for shotguns, or they make fiber-optic turkey sights for shotguns. I'm half blind in my right, dominant eye. I can't even see regular rifle sights well. Those fiber-optics work well for me. If you have a ribbed barrel, Tru-View makes rib mounted rifle sights. Just a thought. I'm a LSS (little short shxx) so I can't handle that long of a gun. I use the single shot 10 ga for turkey and waterfowl. I have 10 ga slugs and buckshot, but don't have anything around here I would use them for. I have an old North American Arms 10 ga, but it has a broken firing pin at the moment. I found a clip on fiber-optic front bead for it and that works well for me. It has a notch in the back of the receiver. Not taking it to the bench, or anything like that, but it helps.


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## Phant0m51 (Jan 27, 2005)

With a charging grizzly bear, accept no substitute:

```
.577 Tyrannosaur

750 Grain Monolithic Solid shell

145 ft/lb recoil

10,000 ft/lb energy out the barrel

8039 ft/lb energy at 100 yards
```
Of course, you'd probably dislocate your shoulder, and split the bear in half, but you wouldn't have to worry about it getting to you...

I kid, I kid. Just had to add the 'ultimate large bore rifle' into the equation.


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## win300us (Apr 28, 2004)

I would go with the 22-250 for your small rifle I have had two of the 17 Rem and were both good shooting until about 15-20 rnds then they started to shoot all over the paper I would run A few patches down the barrel and it would be good for A nother 15 rnds and then have to statr all over again. And I agree the 300 is all you need for those bears


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

win300us said:


> I would go with the 22-250 for your small rifle I have had two of the 17 Rem and were both good shooting until about 15-20 rnds then they started to shoot all over the paper I would run A few patches down the barrel and it would be good for A nother 15 rnds and then have to statr all over again. And I agree the 300 is all you need for those bears


That sounds like overheating the barrel more than anything. If you still have one you should try shooting it for 20 rounds and just letting it sit instead of cleaning it, I would bet it will go back to shooting just like it did before. If it is a big problem you might consider a bull barrel.


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## BIG LOST (Feb 2, 2005)

*being a native of MONTANA,,I see all kinds of big guns in the hands of FURINURS,,but the locals usually use '06s,,308s,,300s and like cal.s,,use a '06 as a minimum with noslers and you will do all right,,if you want to use something bigger,,go ahead,,my bear on purpose rifle is a .458 Lott,,,just because thats what I want,,,lots of old-timers use 30/30s and 35 remington chambered Marlins.It's more,,THE SHOOTIN' that matters,,not what you shoot, so much.*


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

...Was that a post?

I kid, i kid. YEA, iv read lately that most people use a 30 cal for bears. Only 30'cals iv got are an Enfield and a SKS. maybe ill have to look into something else. If been considering a BLR in 358, but iv beenearing bad things about their quality.


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## BIG LOST (Feb 2, 2005)

Hey Troop,,the alaska fish & game folks say the most used cals for bear by locals is,,,'06,,30/30,,308 and 300 win. in that order and by a long margin,,,in my state of MT. it is '06,,300,, 270,,and 308 with bear hunters,,,I started with a .303 brit.!!


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

I am with Sniper. Doesn't matter what you got if you can't hit it. The bigger bang is better, but make sure you can shoot it. As for a bear is looking at cows as food, I'd be more concerned about bears looking at you as food!

Neil


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Mr Trooper, Re: the BLR, in 358, I've heard good by owners and bad by someone who heard it from someone else. I've never owned one. So I guess, take that for what you think it's worth. My 358 is built on an old Mauser (93). Just got a new Timney trigger to put in it. I use a red dot and within the range I would shoot a 358, it's right on. I say go for it. I would love to find an old Win 88 with a shot out barrel and rebarrel in 358, or a Win 100.


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