# Student Expelled For Unloaded Gun In Truck Off Campus...



## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Student expelled for having unloaded shotguns in truck
ChicoER.com ^ | 11/20/09 | Ryan Wilson

Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 7:37:50 AM by CharlesThe Hammer

Student expelled for having unloaded shotguns in truck By RYAN OLSON - Staff Writer Posted: 11/20/2009 12:09:32 AM PST

WILLOWS -- The Willows Unified School District board of trustees has expelled a 16-year-old for having unloaded shotguns in his pickup parked just off the Willows High School campus.

The board voted 4-0 Thursday to expel junior Gary Tudesko after the weapons were discovered via scent-sniffing dogs on Oct. 26. Board Vice President Alex Parisio abstained from the discussion and vote because he is related to Tudesko's family.

Expulsion hearings are normally held in closed sessions, but affected students and their parents can request a public hearing.

Susan Parisio defended her son during the 105-minute public hearing at Willows Civic Center. She acknowledged that Tudesko was lazy for not storing the shotguns at home after a morning of bird hunting, but she questioned the district's ability to enforce its policies off Willows High School property.

"My son was not even parked on school property," Parisio said.

Willows High Principal Mort Geivett and other district officials did not appear to dispute that the parking space was off school property, but they cited several justifications. One of them was the legal doctrine of in loco parentis â€" where school officials may act in place of a parent for school functions.

Geivett said the school was responsible for students traveling to and from school as well as during lunch. He said he believed that students should not possess weapons within 1,000 feet of campus.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicoer.com ...


----------



## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

This crap is getting out of hand! :******:


----------



## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

HUNTNFISHND said:


> This crap is getting out of hand! :ticked:


X2. I'm going to have a hard time convincing my kid that they need to listen and obey some of the school's rules or punish them if they get expelled for something like that.

Public education is simply a joke. I was (hopefully still am) a highly intellignet person and I never put an ounce of effort into highschool. It wasn't until college that I was challenged.

So how do you tell your kid to listen and respect a bunch of wanna be political deuchers (school board members) when we are probably smarter and more sucessful than they are.


----------



## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

Sasha and Abby said:


> ChicoER.com ^ | 11/20/09 | Ryan Wilson
> 
> Posted on Saturday, November 21, 2009 7:37:50 AM by CharlesThe Hammer
> 
> The board voted 4-0 Thursday to expel junior Gary Tudesko after the *weapons* were discovered


This always bothers me. Very rarely does it make sense to refer to a gun as a weapon, especially when the gun is by design intended for hunting. They are tools just like anything else. Does anyone call a butter knife a weapon? No, never, unless someone uses it to do harm to someone else. So then why would someone call a gun a weapon if it was never used to hurt anyone?

Don't call it a weapon until it is used as one. A car is not a weapon until it's used to run someone over. A garden shovel is not a weapon until it is used to hit someone. Therefor a fire arm is not a weapon until it is used to shoot someone.

:soapbox:


----------



## duckmander (Aug 25, 2008)

yes they are going way overboard with this stuff. they find a hunting gun in a truck with a ginormous 3" bladed knife and ammo. parked on private property and expell the student for the year or more.

But they dont find the pistol and ammo in the students locker until they have to kill him.

That makes all kinds of sense to me. because both are killers.

One just hunts. and the other kills his class mates.

I know its different now then in my day. there was not a truck in the parking lot that did not have atleast one loaded gun ammo knives etc, inside. plus the windows were usually down and the keys in the ignition. I have even seen school staff ask a student about a gun. then they take it out and both look at it.

I wounder what they woild have said if it was his bow with a quiver full of broadheads? HUM?


----------



## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

ruger1 said:


> HUNTNFISHND said:
> 
> 
> > This crap is getting out of hand! :ticked:
> ...


careful how you group all public educators in to one family :-? are you disputing the fact he was expelled? or that action was taken because he had guns in his truck.


----------



## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Yeah be careful of how you group public educators! :eyeroll:

I am a public educator but I agree some of the rules go overboard especially in this case!


----------



## flotty (Oct 11, 2006)

Why would they have a gun sniffing dog off of school property? Somebody knew he had it in his truck and totally set him up. There is probably a lot more to this story than kid leaves gun in truck and randomly they are sniffing vehicles off school property. Doesn't add up :evil: :evil:

Either way its B.S.


----------



## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

actually it happens alot even in north dakota. if there is suspicion of drug alcohol or guns they will bring in dogs. not that uncommon.

moral of the story is don't bring your frickin guns to school!! dosen't matter if you live 5 or 50 miles out of town store them at a buddies store them at teachers house that likes hunting, but it is ILLEGAL to have them on school property.

I take the other side in any guns in school story. Many kids and teachers(including me) take about hunting and guns all time with their students, heck kids brought me pics of the deer they shot, but all of them are smart enough to know not to bring their guns to school b/c its against the rules!!!!!!

Dunno about the kid that parked off of school property but i am guessing there is more to it.


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I think there is more to the story that we know. Was this parking spot right across from the school? Was it less than 10ft or 1000ft from school property?

Lots of questions.....

But yes some of it is going over board....but with today's world they need to be.


----------



## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

Fallguy said:


> Yeah be careful of how you group public educators! :eyeroll:
> 
> I am a public educator but I agree some of the rules go overboard especially in this case!


Norm and Fallguy. I'm not saying anything bad about the educators themselves. Majority of you guys top notch. It's the school boards that tie your hands and lump the students together, leaving the gifted ones to fend for themselves as you must give majority of your attention to the not so gifted ones.

I basically slept through "public school". Never opened a book, never took a note. Graduated with a 3.3 GPA and didn't lift a finger. When I got to college I was finally challenged and had to actually study (kind of). With a little effort I walked away with 2 degrees (Overall GPA 3.899).

Did "public school" prepare me for that, I think not.

Now to the real issue. The school boards lumping this kid in with POS D-bags that would go postal and shoot another kid. All because he had guns in his vehicle. Which according to the article weren't even on school property. As this kids parent, I'd be in there letting them have it. And then my lawyer would be in there letting them have it.

Nothing against educators.


----------



## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

but school board members are elected by voters like you??? I am not condoning your opinion but school board officals hold a public office.

I don't understand. Most members are high ranking people in a community. obviously some are not liked but that comes with the territory.

in most nd schools this would not happen, but the schools have the right to take action they deem necessary to make other students feel safe.

I stand by my message. DO NOT bring your firearms or knives or bows to school grounds! whether your a student, teacher, parent or guest you set yourself up for trouble.


----------



## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

That is the rub with this guy... his truck was NOT on school grounds and he still got pinched. :eyeroll:


----------



## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Norm,

His truck was not on school property! What if somebody lived across the street from this school, are you saying he couldn't even have it in his truck on his own driveway? That's absurd!

I wouldn't have a problem with it if it was actually on school grounds, but it wasn't. They are taking this zero tolerance and weapon BS too far. Look at the situation with the boy scout and his pocket tool a couple months ago. Dang man there is getting to be no common sense anymore!


----------



## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

ruger1

Thanks for the clarification! No harm done! :beer:


----------



## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

*"His truck was not on school property! What if somebody lived across the street from this school, are you saying he couldn't even have it in his truck on his own driveway? That's absurd!
*

I fully agree on above statement.

Guess that the hunter/fisher out door types need to run back ground checks on those running for school board. 
sportsman clubs need to indorse the ones who are outdoor types and denounce those who are tree huggers.
I could care less they own the local Ford dealer or John Deer dealership.

 Al


----------



## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

What about the kids that live right next to the school. If they leave their guns in their vehicles at their house and live within a block from school will they get expelled too? How many guns are there within 1000' of the school, whether in vehicles or houses? I'm so sick of elected officials making these types of decisions for "your own good". When will this type of BS stop? I hope everyone remembers this decision when the board members come up for reelection and they do the right thing and get rid of them.


----------



## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

> Now to the real issue. The school boards lumping this kid in with POS D-bags that would go postal and shoot another kid


just as you did in this statement.... are ALL postal workers going to get a bad rap for a couple? :stirpot:

this zero tolerance needs to stop and it needs to be taken on a case by case basis... and I agree... theres more to the story here thats not being told... the dogs were brought in because of a tip.. why else would they be OFF school property? and whose payin the bills for that?


----------



## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

ok so i am still in high school and at the start of the year we have to sign a paper agreeing to the school policies, in that for my school they say you cannot have it on school grounds and i bet his said the same, now all of the sudden he gets close to school grounds so after the matter they make up a new rule that you gotta be 1000 feet and still get him, this is bull, it is a public street, they should not be able to do a dang thing


----------



## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

Where is the ACLU on this one? This students civil and constitutional rights are being stomped on. But since he is not some dirtbag burning a flag or selling "medical marijuana" they wont take up his cause.


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

this was my nephew that was expelled.
a really good kid.
Avid hunter and intelligent.
He thought he had done everything right and lawful like.
Maybe the school board has it out for him cuz there were three other kids who were found to have either ammo and or guns in the vehicle off campus but were only suspended, including the kid who went hunting with him that morning and also had his shotgun in the back seat as well.

Hey guys, the boy could have stashed the guns out of sight but chose to follow the law and did not conceal them.

know any good dog-bite lawyers out there? who are gun owners as well?


----------



## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

wurgs said:


> What about the kids that live right next to the school. If they leave their guns in their vehicles at their house and live within a block from school will they get expelled too? How many guns are there within 1000' of the school, whether in vehicles or houses? I'm so sick of elected officials making these types of decisions for "your own good". When will this type of BS stop? I hope everyone remembers this decision when the board members come up for reelection and they do the right thing and get rid of them.


I would bet 3 to 1 the Fargo school board would do the same thing the willow school board did. Make it 5 to 1. This whole thing stinks, would like to see the rest of the story, I would also like to see the NRA get involved.

Swift you are right on the money. The ACLU is just a plain old waste, another group that gets our tax dollars. This one should have lawsuit and recall elections wrote all over it.


----------



## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

ACLU Isn't tax funded. It is funded by citizens who try to keep goverment agencys in line, as well as protect workers in nonunion shops, and many more things.
https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServe ... g-s-aclu-s

Any body can get a potetion going and recall elected officials. You just need so many voters to sign the forms.

 Al


----------



## API (Jul 14, 2009)

Before beating up the local educators and school district too much, consideration ought to be given to the CA Penal Code as it appears to apply. Note the very last paragraph that defines "school zone". This section of the CA penal code is related to the _Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995_ of which many states have one version or the other.

(I don't know how to counteract the smiley GIF code definitions)



> 626.9(e)(1) CA PC
> 
> 626.9. (a) This section shall be known, and may be cited, as the
> Gun-Free School Zone Act of 1995.
> ...


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

(1) Within a place of residence or place of business or on private
property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private
property is not part of the school grounds and the possession of the
firearm is otherwise lawful.

Our vehicles are private property and my nephew's truck was parked off the school grounds.

If you are interested in some great comments from hunters, check out Chico Enterprise Recorder that ran the article. Most Viewed.

The young man was more than 'lawful'. The Administration of the High School is known to be anti-gun.

The community of Willows derives much of it's annual income from seasonal hunting in the rice fields, it needs to get off it's butt and work on hiring teachers and administrators that reflect their beliefs that a gun is only a WEAPON in the wrong hands, as is a butter knife or a car to quote a gentleman who posted earlier here.

If every small town where you all hunt were to ban the lawful transportation of guns, where would you go and what would you do?

Time to nip this attitude in the bud and get off your laurels as this may be the mind set in your own town, you just don't know it yet! Especially if your kids are grown, you are probably out of touch with the current administration of your local schools.

Go to a board meeting and soon too find out.

You are the one who stand to lose.

Respectfully posted by a daughter of a hunter.
Respectfully posted by a teacher.
Respectfully posted by a former Animal Control Officer
Respectfully posted by a victim of assault with a deadly weapon
Respectfully posted by the wife of a Native American hunter and fisherman

All I ask you is to remember...

remember what our country once was like,
remember when you used to go hunting with your dads and uncles
remember when you drove around with shotguns in the gun rack
remember when you walked around town with your gun in its case and not one person thought it unusual

all this talk about concealed weapons, what about our right to go where we will with our firearms in plain sight, unmolested.

We even have the right to where pistols in holsters, loaded if we wish because of the right to keep and bear...get it...bear arms....

and many of our fathers and grandfathers did just that because of snakes and wild animals....dogs chasing cattle and sheep.

I lived this in California in the '70s and '80s...where did America go?
Where did the American men and woman go that used to know their rights?

Wake up America before it is too late.

sincerely,

My Father's Daughter
with No apologies necessary


----------



## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

again, DON'T BRING GUNS TO SCHOOL GROUNDS OR ANYWHERE AROUND IT!! I mean is it really that hard to do?

Yes expelling would not happen in rural ND but i garantee suspension would and they can give you up to a year.

And yes in ND your vehicles can be searched if there is suspicion of illegal activity. Like i said it happens on school grounds all of the time.

I feel for the kid. He should not have been expelled but I would not bat an eye at a suspension.

AGAIN, you can put them at my house, but DON'T BRING YOUR GUNS TO SCHOOL!!!


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

I understand what you are saying Norm, but I think the law is BS. The school should have no right to search private property that is outside school property. That should be considered an illegal search, no doubt about it. Every gun law passed has been done with the false premise of public safety. This is no different.


----------



## wingaddict (Sep 16, 2009)

Norm70 said:


> again, DON'T BRING GUNS TO SCHOOL GROUNDS OR ANYWHERE AROUND IT!! I mean is it really that hard to do?
> 
> Yes expelling would not happen in rural ND but i garantee suspension would and they can give you up to a year.
> 
> ...


What constitutes "anywhere around it" 5 feet or 5 miles?

The debate isnt about bringing them to school its about the school enforcing it rules on the public street in front of the school.


----------



## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Norm70 said:


> again, DON'T BRING GUNS TO SCHOOL GROUNDS OR ANYWHERE AROUND IT!! I mean is it really that hard to do?
> 
> Yes expelling would not happen in rural ND but i garantee suspension would and they can give you up to a year.
> 
> ...


HE DIDN"T! HIS VEHICLE WAS NOT ON SCHOOL GROUNDS!

If anyone tries to search my vehicle they best have a search warrant!


----------



## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

remember its not the school searching the vehicles it is law enforcement. the schools just call in the suspicion
ps don't bring your guns to school


----------



## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

> What constitutes "anywhere around it" 5 feet or 5 miles?


the law in your local area or state


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

So, law enforcement searched the vehicle. Why? I would guess because the school asked them too. What was their probable cause to search it? Obviously the CA law is poor to say the least. If he were an adult would he be charged with something? He stayed within the law in not concealing the shotguns and they were not loaded. But because he was a student he was prosecuted. The question that has been asked and not answered is; if you are an adult with your truck in your driveway that is within the 1000', can they be charged also? If not, why should the school have the authority over a student outside of school property?


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> remember its not the school searching the vehicles it is law enforcement


 :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: Nothing like placing blame where it doesn't belong! :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

LE didn't just drive up and start searching the school parking lot and surrounding area, give me a break!!!



> And yes in ND your vehicles can be searched if there is suspicion of illegal activity.


Really, since when????? I am pretty sure that is FALSE INFO!!!


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

laite319 said:


> > remember its not the school searching the vehicles it is law enforcement
> 
> 
> :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: Nothing like placing blame where it doesn't belong! :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
> ...


Cant LE search with probably cause???
Doesn't probably cause constitute "suspicion" of some sort? What exactly does LE need to make a legal search of a vehicle?

Im just asking, as I have no idea.

As for this happening off school grounds, its total BS.


----------



## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

> Cant LE search with probably cause???


lol.. its 'probable' cause.... and I believe unless 'someone' ie. the school district in this case, calls in a threat of some sort I dont believe there is probable cause but I am just speculateing as I am not law enforcement... maybe someone who has the law codes or is familiar with the codes or has access to them or knows where to look them up can add more here.... and lets hear it from an actual law written down not just cuz you heard it from someone or know a guy....


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

ooops, typo.

Yes, probable cause was what I meant.

Note, when I tried to type "probable cause" on this post, I typed probably cause again.


----------



## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

its all good.. I had a good laugh tho :beer:


----------



## mnwatrfwl (Sep 16, 2005)

The 1995 gun safe has been ripped and gutted and tossed to the curb it had, has, and will not have any standing in this situation.


----------



## API (Jul 14, 2009)

dogdonthunt said:


> > Cant LE search with probably cause???
> 
> 
> lol.. its 'probable' cause....


Speaking from total ignorance of the details and background of this case... a couple of things I'd make book on:

1) The LEOs involved didn't just fall of the turnip truck.
2) Based upon some information that is not publicly know in an Outdoor type forum there is quite likely some "probable cause" to justify a search and arrest.

We can all be as indignant as we want, but sooner or later the rest of the story will become known. We'll see...


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

For all of you willing to throw LE under the bus on this, you should read the article!!! LE did not perform the search, and no charges were brought by the police!!

A private security co did the searching. From what I have read the school officials are over stepping their bounds on this one.

Not sure why you would need a dog to sniff a truck when the shotguns were uncased on the seat. Should be plain view and it seems there was nothing wrong with it as far as LE was concerned.


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

there was enough good cause for a noteable atterny to take the case.

once i have permission, i will disclose who exactly took the case.

the school was and is in the wrong and the law enforcement did their job once the school called them.

the sherrif and the district atterny did not file any charges.

the school expelled this young man using education codes not penal codes though the superintendant tried to bring penal code into the equation...not the jurisdiction of the school.

the dogs are in question.

the location of the vehicle is in question...off campus.

the confiscation of legal guns is in question.

and of course the expullsion is in question.

stay tuned for more details...but most of all...

do you know your own school board?

do you know if the administration at your local schools are pro-gun or anti-gun?

who did you elect?


----------



## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

> For all of you willing to throw LE under the bus on this


I dont think anyone was throwing them under the bus.... they are doin that to the school admins here.... I think everyone is just throwing out questions to try and get answers.... kinda like what should be done on any forum wether it be outdoors or not..... you are right about the fact that everything will eventually come out in the case... lets just hope it works out for this young man


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

Please go to this link and read what a local hunter wrote.

This is the editorial page of the Chico Enterprise Recorder.

It says it all...points well made about rural high verses inner-city high.

Has his facts straight, seems like he might have been in on the public hearing for the expulsion.

http://www.chicoer.com/opinion/ci_13888536?source=email


----------



## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

It's pretty simple really; zero tolerance = zero common sense. Zero tolerance means zero looking at the facts in the case. Each case has different circumstances, zero tolerance ignores these circumstances. Zero tolerance punishes the innocent just the same as the guilty and puts undue hardship and a criminal record on the innocent. Zero tolerance does fit in rather well with political correctness though as both make zero sense. Zero tolerance is like having the same sentence for a parking ticket and attemped murder.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> remember its not the school searching the vehicles it is law enforcement.


If that statement isn't throwing LE under the bus I don't know what is.


----------



## moneyshot27 (Jan 13, 2009)

all that is needed for probable cause to enter and search a vehicle or other private property is a 'hit' by a police dog. LE are completely within their bounds to walk a dog around a vehicle on a public street, and if said canine indicates that they smell drugs or explosives, probable and just cause to search the vehicle is established.

i think that this case is b.s. since the vehicle was off school property. if anything, the school board should have taken this opportunity to establish the boundaries that they were comfortable with. the school board should have no grounds to expell the kid.


----------



## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

> remember its not the school searching the vehicles it is law enforcement.
> 
> If that statement isn't throwing LE under the bus I don't know what is.


no... actually its makeing a statement..... a false one according to the story... It seems it was an outside company but regardless its still a bogus deal for this kid.... I think we can all agree on that... I havent read anything that suggests this kid was in the wrong here...... but just because someone makes a statement like that doesnt mean they are throwing LE under the bus.... if they wouldve followed up with the name calling or ranting about it then yes... oterwise its just a blanket statement from someone trying to make the schoolboard the good guys here.... and we all know better...


----------



## API (Jul 14, 2009)

crystalclear said:


> there was enough good cause for a noteable atterny to take the case.
> 
> once i have permission, i will disclose who exactly took the case.
> 
> ...


FLASH!!! Every person charged with an offense is innocent! Just ask 'em. This reads like typical defense lawyer talk drumming up billable hours. So, how does it feel to be appointed judge, jury, and grand poobah that decides everything for everybody by them self. :lol:


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> but just because someone makes a statement like that doesnt mean they are throwing LE under the bus.... if they wouldve followed up with the name calling or ranting about it then yes... oterwise its just a blanket statement from someone trying to make the schoolboard the good guys here.... and we all know better.





> One is thrown under the bus when they are made the scapegoat or blamed for something that wasn't their responsibility in the first place.


Thanks for making my point for me. The statement was the exact definition on "throwing some one under the "SCHOOL BUS"" :wink:


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

Well API...the NRA seems to feel that this case is worth defending...

Check out the comments on this ACCURATE editorial...the posts get juicy...would seem a school administer has compromised himself by commenting with details no one could know but Admin.

http://www.chicoer.com/opinion/ci_13888536

It seems that not everyone is WHINING about being wrongfully persecuted.

Some people really are.

Like _younever _had a teacher ride you, or a principal have something out for you, or better yet, administrators having an agenda that is different than that of the community...

I bet you never had a hidden agenda...eh?

You're just some 'good ole boy' sittin around with your beer and your gun and your dog thinkin that the good ole USA is gunna keep on keepin on....well your dad and your grandfather fought for this freedom of yours, your freedom and you're too busy with football and local gossip to pull your head out and see that our nation has been taken over through the classroom and through the media. When are you going to stand up? When will enough be enough for you? When they are knocking down your door? When your son doesn't come home from school one day cuz they sent him off to war? (they did this to the Native americans for world war ll, korea, and vietnam, ask any graduate of one of the 'Indian Schools'.)

Obama has a plan to give us 'Brown Shirts', a 'Red Guard' so to speak, a fourth Reich. Yes, he clearly stated it on the campaign trail, it is documented. These youth are taught to rat on their parents and neighbors. How many guns do you own? How many rounds of amo do you keep around? How many dogs do you have?

If you don't know your history, you are doomed to repeat it...or better yet...If you don't know your history then you will believe anything they say on the news.


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

moneyshot27 said:


> all that is needed for probable cause to enter and search a vehicle or other private property is a 'hit' by a police dog. LE are completely within their bounds to walk a dog around a vehicle on a public street, and if said canine indicates that they smell drugs or explosives, probable and just cause to search the vehicle...


The dogs were private, hired by the school.

These dogs and their handlers crossed a public street to search vehicles near the school.


----------



## API (Jul 14, 2009)

crystalclear said:


> Well API...the NRA seems to feel that this case is worth defending...
> 
> ...If you don't know your history, you are doomed to repeat it...or better yet...If you don't know your history then you will believe anything they say on the news.


Believe me (I'm a long time NRA member), we all didn't just fall off the turnip truck. Most have been around the block a few times, attended several county fairs, and viewed assorted animal breedings. History is immaterial here (and as this is pretty much a local story, the only news on this issue that most know of is whatever bias finds it's way onto internet threads). It's good that the NRA is supporting the effort. Hopefully this contributes dignity to the defense.

The fundamental issue is whether or not a violation occurred. What's incomplete here is due process (I think there is still a rule of law). If the party is truly innocent and has been wrongly accused it will be ultimately recognized. It's true that some innocent folks have been charged and even convicted, but that's not the usual case. Should it be determined by competent authority that a truly wrong application of law occurred, then an opportunity for a remedy will be there.


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

Ruger1 wrote:

"Public education is simply a joke. I was (hopefully still am) a highly intellignet person and I never put an ounce of effort into highschool."

No one wants to point out the irony in the above quote? No one?

As a public school teacher, I won't go as far to say public education is a joke but I do see where people get frustrated with some of the issues regarding the decision making process in schools. What people don't understand is that public education is among the top three most bureaucratic institutions (government, medical, education...respectively) in the United States. Meaning that there are so many people with their hands in education that it makes the decision making process muddled to say the least. Out of this "muddle" comes one size fits all solutions. (see state/federal academic standards for example).

While I don't agree with zero tolerance, I can see why schools have it. Without it, do we send the message that in some cases weapons are okay to have on school grounds? Which ones and in which circumstances? Who determines? If that were the case, the school would get nailed from the other side. Again, stuck in the "muddle."

Also, people would be amazed how many rights students give up upon entering the school. Especially when it comes to legal searches of people and property. That includes having drug dogs come through school and random locker searches.

With that being said, if it is true that this kid got pinched for having a gun off of school property, it is totally BS in my book.

Shoot straight, good luck and be on the look out for those brown shirts!


----------



## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

alleyyooper said:


> ACLU Isn't tax funded. It is funded by citizens who try to keep goverment agencys in line, as well as protect workers in nonunion shops, and many more things.
> https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServe ... g-s-aclu-s
> 
> Any body can get a potetion going and recall elected officials. You just need so many voters to sign the forms.
> ...


true to a point. They do get tax dollars when they sue the government, and other back door ways.
http://sweetness-light.com/archive/aclu ... ution-case
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ACLU/

This crystal clear has a good point, pay attention to your school board. They effect your day to day life and your wallet a lot more than you may think.

I hope the NRA can help win this case and then turn around and sue the school board and the school itself, no one really wins in this one but it would be irony and send a message.


----------



## API (Jul 14, 2009)

Gooseguy10 said:


> ...No one wants to point out the irony in the above quote? No one?
> 
> As a public school teacher, I won't go as far to say public education is a joke but I do see where people get frustrated with some of the issues regarding the decision making process in schools. What people don't understand is that public education is among the top three most bureaucratic institutions (government, medical, education...respectively) in the United States. Meaning that there are so many people with their hands in education that it makes the decision making process muddled to say the least. Out of this "muddle" comes one size fits all solutions. (see state/federal academic standards for example).


True, public education appears to be focused upon serving the lowest common denominator. As one who sent his own children to a private school, I'd say Gooseguy10 makes an eloquent justification for private education. The major thing missing with most private education is simply the opportunity to rub shoulders with the rough edges.
:beer:


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

API said:


> ... (I think there is still a rule of law). ... Should it be determined by competent authority that a truly wrong application of law occurred, then an opportunity for a remedy will be there.


Dear API,

Your loyalty to the way America once was is admirable.

Rule of Law; WE must ask, are the 'laws' of the people, by the people and for the people?

Every aspect of American life that has to do with freedom to own private property is under attack.

I was part of a group who fought vigorously against the bills PETA and the Humane Society tried to push through our states legislature.

*Mandatory* spay and neuter for *all *dogs, even those used for breeding, purebreds, mutts and the likes.

Sure you could pay $150 per dog for a permit to keep them whole, but if you read the fine print, this exception would phase out in 2 years, then you could be fined for a 'whole' animal or worse yet, the animal confiscated.

You may not believe this is true. You may say it was a 'local' occurrence, but I assure it is not.

For you gun owner, be it known that dogs are considered are considered weapons too. You are truly being disarmed.

Due process of law?

We are headed for the past...It is no coincidence that we are having 'Tea Parties', soon we may have the very form of 'due process' our forefathers had....before America was born.

Let us come together in agreement for a house is conquered when it become divided.

Sincerely,

A Proud American


----------



## API (Jul 14, 2009)

crystalclear said:


> ...Let us come together in agreement for a house is conquered when it become divided.


You zeal for improvement is certainly shared. Thanks to last November's election result, activism has become a way of life for my spouse and I.

1. As the owner of a pure bred dog, worked directly with state senator and assemblyman to fight spay and neuter bills.
2. Have attended multiple tea party events in Sacramento, San Diego, Palm Springs, Irvine, and Temecula.
3. Financial contributor and working member of campaign staff for congressional candidate to unseat Mary Bono Mack.
4. Published newspaper editorials critical of the Obama government.
5. Written countless personal letters/emails to local, state and federal leaders expressing thoughts about the current direction of our country.
6. Manned voter registration booths.
7. Additionally, have worked as precinct inspector for the past 25 consecutive elections.

I'm convinced that being directly involved is the best action for all of us. It's the only way to get our country back.


----------



## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

> While I don't agree with zero tolerance, I can see why schools have it. Without it, do we send the message that in some cases weapons are okay to have on school grounds? Which ones and in which circumstances?


did I miss something here? wasnt this OFF school grounds?


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

You didn't miss anything. Read further in my post and you will see that I discussed the fact that the car was supposedly not on school grounds.

What I was addressing is the fact that some people in previous posts claimed the "zero tolerance" policy is total BS. Again, while I think it can be overdone, as a person from the inside (school), I can its purpose.

As far as private vs. public education. It is nice to live in a country where you have a choice.....to each their own. But for me, my children will be going to public schools.


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Gooseguy10 said:


> ...,* I can its purpose.*
> 
> As far as private vs. public education. It is nice to live in a country where you have a choice.....to each their own. But for me, my children will be going to public schools.


I think they should can the zero tolerance also! :wink: The zero common sense is stupidity especially when the schools try to teach tolerance.

As for private schools, if I still lived in AZ my kids would be in private school. But since we moved back to ND, public school is just fine. I guess it depends where you are.


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

Hey all this goes to appeal on the 15th of this month, Jan.

I will share the brief with you as soon as I have permission. there will be a link...

anyone looking for fun can attend.

willows community center, 10.am

I will post immed. if it changes.

venue was moved from education offices because the community will be coming out in droves...last estimate in the hundreds. :beer:


----------



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Anyone know how this turned out?


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

Here is the lawyer's brief to the court...

table of contents is revealing... :thumb:

http://calgunlaws.com/images/stories/Do ... 0final.pdf


----------



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

That just shows jibberish, a whole bunch of symbols.


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

blhunter3 said:


> That just shows jibberish, a whole bunch of symbols.


Works for me just fine. Dang interesting read.

Either he's going to hang him with his own words, or the board will have to agree with him.


----------



## PJ (Oct 1, 2002)

I didn't read all the responses but what state was this in?


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

PJ said:


> I didn't read all the responses but what state was this in?


Longbeach CA


----------



## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

The intent of zero tollerance is to put everyone on a level playing field and insure that no "preferences" come into play in administering punishment. It takes the responsibility away from those in power and is basically a "cop out" . Zero tollerance is a slap in the face of our justice system that assumes guilt regardless of the situation.


----------



## deiussum (Mar 17, 2009)

blhunter3 said:


> That just shows jibberish, a whole bunch of symbols.


It's a PDF file, so maybe you don't have the Adobe Reader installed? Should be able to find it somewhere at http://www.adobe.com. (There should be some icon or link to "Get Adobe Reader.")


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

farmerj said:


> PJ said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't read all the responses but what state was this in?
> ...


correction...

Willows, california...on I 5 in the middle of the rice fields.


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

my mistake, I looked at the attorney's address which is Longbeach CA.


----------



## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

I wonder why the ACLU isn't defeneding this students Civil Liberties/2nd Amendment rights???


----------



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

dakotashooter2 said:


> The intent of zero tollerance is to put everyone on a level playing field and insure that no "preferences" come into play in administering punishment. It takes the responsibility away from those in power and is basically a "cop out" . Zero tollerance is a slap in the face of our justice system that assumes guilt regardless of the situation.


I got bent over by that zero tollerance bs in high school more then a couple times. :******:


----------



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

rowdie said:


> I wonder why the ACLU isn't defeneding this students Civil Liberties/2nd Amendment rights???


I have a couple idea's but I would be racist if I said them out loud.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

If what you want to say is the truth it makes you a realist, not a racist.

If what you say makes you a racist, thinking it would also make you a racist, wouldn't it?


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

too-she...watch out for the thought police... :rollin: :rollin:

they aren't too far behind... :sniper:


----------



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Savage260 said:


> If what you want to say is the truth it makes you a realist, not a racist.
> 
> If what you say makes you a racist, thinking it would also make you a racist, wouldn't it?


Well Im racist then in your mind, which doesn't both me at all.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

bl, I don't think you read my post correctly, or you read into it a bit too much. I am not trying to judge you!

Also it evidentally does bother you, or you wouldn't have had to tell us all that it doesn't!!


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I just found this thread so I'm in it very late, but after reading through the posts the one thing that bothers me most is no real dialogue concerning the REAL private property.

The kid's truck.

If we are all willing to allow the government to consider private property not so private based solely on it's location, where does it end? Will hotel parking lots in big cities be next?

We should expect nothing less from CA. but as fas as I'm concerned what the kid keeps in his truck, assuming it's legal to possess, is the business of only him and his parents. What he keeps in his locker is the school's business. What he keeps in his truck should not be...regardless of where it's parked. Zero tolerence laws or not.

No one wants safe schools more than I do, but I have never believed the end justifies the means.

Well, _almost _never


----------



## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

They almost try to hard, they make a law so psychotic kids don't go shootin the place up, whats the thousand foot rule gunna do, if the psychos gunna bring the gun the psychos gunna regardless wether he is supposed to or not, he going there to kill people a thousand feet rule isnt going to stop him, if this student brought the gun there to kill people it wouldnt be in the truck it be on him inside goin crazy, laws like this doesn't stop lunatics from doing this stuff, they stop normal people from living normal


----------



## BrightBeaver (Jan 8, 2010)

Just seen this, WTF! off campus too? Very Bizarre


----------



## Mad Mom (Jan 13, 2010)

***ALERT***
The Hearing has been reset to Tuesday, January 19th at 10am. This was changed by request of the WUSD attorney and has caused a great deal of heated discussion. Check it out on Glenn County Office of Education website, or call them at 530-934-6575

*Please let everyone know*.


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

_added link to post_



Mad Mom said:


> ***ALERT***
> The Hearing has been reset to Tuesday, January 19th at 10am. This was changed by request of the WUSD attorney and has caused a great deal of heated discussion. Check it out on Glenn County Office of Education website, or call them at 530-934-6575
> 
> *Please let everyone know*.


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

Great article by ESPN. Very balanced with lots of details and much shorter than the 'brief'. Plus some good pictures and a bit of a perspective of what it might be like if you were this kid. Time to fight for justice. ten in the morning in willows...on the 19th...show up if you can at the county board of education offices.


----------



## crystalclear (Nov 24, 2009)

ooops, here's the link...http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunt ... id=4832232


----------



## stoli (Aug 17, 2008)

i feel for the kid..I hope on tue the wrong will be righted...good luck Gary... :thumb:


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Gievett should be allowed to resign or be fired. He over stepped his bounds and authority, and tried to humiliate this kid.


----------



## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

The last I understood, the hearing was scheduled for Tuesday the 19th.....so has anyone heard what happened?


----------



## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

I just saw on CNN's HLN show that the expulsion was reversed and all records of the event expunged from the student's record. The superintendent remained adamant in his position, stating he feared for the safety of students, teachers and himself.
The CNN reporter shuddered and said one could not help thinking of Columbine. She referred to "gun advocates" as backing the student. I prefer to think of his supporters as "civil rights" advocates".

On a separate note, the President lamented the Supreme Court's decision to uphold the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech.


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

news story here

http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2483630.html


----------



## duckmander (Aug 25, 2008)

A little common sinse in the first place would have never had to go that far.

Good for the boy.


----------



## spitfire_er (Jan 23, 2010)

duckmander said:


> A little common sinse in the first place would have never had to go that far.
> 
> Good for the boy.


I agree. I remember in high school 10 years ago, we would all go hunting before school and drive straight to school. I would bet probably 15-25% of the vehicles ON school property had a shotgun or rifle in them. It was never an issue. When I was a senior they started placing the gun and other rules in place and started using dogs......I agree it's a good idea, but I had a friend get busted for open beer cans in the back of his truck in a garbadge bag to be recycled....... There was absolutely no common sense there. I can also see how they can bend and twist things to say "well how do we know?" They should treat cases like a court, if there is not indisputable evidence how can you charge someone?

Kinda sad to see a case like this. When the guy said "it makes you think of Columbine and I feared for my and the people in the schools life!" I think that is what he came up with to try and justify his wrong doing.


----------

