# which one of these two .223s should I buy?



## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

I've decided to buy a .223 Rem and have an absolute dilemma choosing between two available to me. Being a student, money is always a big thing but I'm trying to think long term too, in how the gun will last and perform over time etc.

The two available to me are:

A Winchester Model 70 built in 1973 with a 10 year old 3-9x Buschnell scope. I have shot three 5 shot groups with it, approx 35-40mm in diameter. The private seller would also be giving me 100 rounds of handloads, plus 30 or so factory loads and a set of dies too. It was once a .222 now converted to .223, so only one factory round will fit in its 3+1 magazine, although it can be filled with slightly modified hand loads. The gun is in good condition excepting a small crack in its wooden stock. All this will cost me AU$625

The other is a brand new Weatherby Vanguard Synthetic with mounts, for AU$700. I won't be getting any extras for this and will also have to buy a 3-9x scope for $185.

I understand it is hard to make a judgement without viewing the second hand gun, but by the sound of it, would it be OK to get the older gun? It is much cheaper, and I'm sure both guns would perform as I would like. Also would it be a wise investment to get a gun smith to check out the second hand gun?

Any advice would be much appreciated!


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## magnumhntr (Sep 18, 2002)

You should go check out a Savage 12 or 112. VERY accurate guns. I've got a 22-250, and 3 of my friends have .223's. A new one would be cheaper than the 2 you have posted. All the ones I've personally witnessed have shot factory ammo under 1" at 100yrds, and handloads can generally get that down to 1/2" at 100 yrds. Just a suggestion. Also, I believe Hunting magazine last month did an article of the most accurate varmit rifles out of the box, and the Savage, as usual, took top honors. :sniper:


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## akuwdiver (Mar 28, 2004)

I would not buy another Weatherby. They would not help when I need a part for one that I bought new. I would go get a good Reminton or a Savage and buy a good scope. It will cost more and less at the same time. If you get a good scope now you will not have to get one later. For targets go a little larger and for hunting a good 3x9x40. I have shot several .223 and I still have a T/C in .223. 
Where is the stock cracked at?


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Ruger M77 is another choice for around $500, your choice of wood & blue, wood & stainless, synthetic & stainless, all with scope rings. This doesn't have an adjustable trigger like the Savage does though.


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

Thanksfor your advice guys,

The stock is cracked right up near the end of it, as in just near where the barrel finishes being supported. I don't think it would affect the accuracy, I was really impressed with how it shot when I tried it out, being a gun that is 11 years older than myself! (It was built in 1973)


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## mlandrus (Apr 6, 2004)

well I would stay away from anything that had been modified , by anyone other than a good gun smith. as for your choices the vanguard would win hands down, at least in my book. again it's simply a matter of preferance. 
But if you are serious about a 223, then mossymo has the right idea. Go with a new ruger m77. you'll deffinatly see where the extra money went.
I've yet to be upset with a ruger rifle.

Happy Shooting: ME


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I have to agree with mlandrus. Weatherby: anyone can have a bad experience and I can understand anyone who would not own another, but I think this may be an isolated experience. I'm considering a rechanber job myself, but know there are a LOT of if's. The cracked stock worries me. But I have never seen or heard of a bad Ruger. If available and within price range, can't go wrong. Whatever you go with, if you plan to reload, check out leeprecision for the lowest prices on equipement (and, no, I don't work for them, just have bought a lot of their stuff).


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

model 70! i have a model 70 270 made in 1970 and i love it, its flawless if you ask me, well, one thing, it weighs 11 pounds, but, now that i bought a neoprene sling, it feels like nothing


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

Thanks heaps guys, I appreciate it,

I did end up getting it in the end, I'm quite happy with how it shoots. I can put 5 factory rounds in a sub-1" group at 100 yards. It's a great condition rifle, except for that crack.

The crack has started to spread which has really worried me a lot, I have to admit. So last time I was at the range i had a good chat to a gun smith who was there, his opinion was that it wasn't critical but definitely worth repairing. He said it would be fine just to do it myself with some Araldite. So I'll fix that up soonish.

I was a bit doubtful about the modification factor of the rifle, but for what it is, I can't believe how well it shoots. It has been bedded too in it's life.

Another small yet not fatal problem is it tends to leave a ring around the cases up near the neck when it fires them. Another chat to another gunsmith who said that was an issue of the chamber not being properly brought back when it was modified from 222 to 223, or something along those lines.

Otherwise, I guess the main reason I didn't get a new rifle was that it was just too expensive. I would have loved to have got a new one! But for what I paid, I'm quite happy with this one. I might sell it in a year or so to get a bigger calibre, we'll see what happens.

I'm yet to hunt with it so I'll let you guys know how it goes!

Thanks again


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I'm glad you're happy withit. One philosophy I have used is that firearms are like real estate. Buy when you can, loan or rent if you must, but never sell. They are an investment and you will feel a real loss if you ever let one go. It may take longer to be able to afford that next one, but worth it in the long run. All of my old firearms are like old friends to me. Al right, I'm a little weird that way, but I still have my old friends.
:beer:


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

Mate, I know exactly what you mean! I feel like I've got to know my rifles in so many ways, selling oe would be like getting rid of a friend. That's why things like that little crack just breaks my heart! Hopefully it will end up being OK. I can't imagine what it would be like if the chamber exploded, or the barrel bent or contorted or something, I'd probably cry! Glad I'm not the only one who loves his guns like they were his kids!
Good on ya mate


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Just be thankful that anything but the receiver itself can be repaired or replaced. Yea, it might cost some, but you wouldn't leave your kid missing an arm or a leg or something.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

hey man, a crack is just a character mark, every blemish on a gun tells a story, a knick on the rib of my supermagnum is from where i had it leaning against the tail gate of my truck, andi went to the cab to get my choke tube wrench, and when i slammed the door, the gun slid off the tail gate and fell into the pavement/gravel/sand that was on the ground and it scratched the gun up, a little bit of oil got most of it off, but scratches are good ona gun, it shows its been used, and hey, a gun isnt around to look pretty, its around to hunt with

:beer: :sniper:

anyway, i have a model 70, and i know you will enjoy yours, and if you want to get rid of that scratch, ill talk to my gunsmith about repairs sent by the mail, he sends his stocks to an artist who completely redoes stocks, he fills in the pits, scratches, and cracks, then paints the grains on the wood, i have seen a stock that hes done, and they are beautiful, do you want me to send you his address and the prices, another alternative is a new stock, which you could probably find at a gun show, or a gun smith, you can find nice used ones that are reasonably priced if you call around, anyway, good shooting, and dont shoot metal plated fmj's out of it, only copper plated fmj's, the metal plated ones with blow the rifling out of your gun real quick, and easy way to see if they are metal plated is stick a magnet on the bullet and if it sticks, dont shoot it, if it doesnt, its ok
good shooting!


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## Aussie shooter (Dec 6, 2003)

Some good points there mate!

That person who fixes up stocks sounds fantastic, but I live in Australia so it may not be feasible to mail it around the world! LOL But thanks for the thought. I think it should be OK to fix up myself, it's more than just a character crack it's growing larger so it'll need attention. But if I don't do it, I'll ask around. It's definitely not serious enough to get a new stock, and it's accuracy is still fantastic. But you're right, Model 70's are a great rifle, I'm so happy with it, despite it's age.

Thanks again!


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## jim21 (May 25, 2006)

If it was up to me,i would check out other gun forums and see what most are useing in .223.I think there is better out there.I'm not going to decide on your half. 8)


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