# What "gun-fit" is all about



## rollin Oswald (Sep 1, 2007)

Shotgun _fit_ is a topic that is beginning to be occasionally discussed by hunters. That is good because if more hunters were using guns that fit, they would be able to shoot more successfully.

Fit refers to how well a stock's five basic dimensions fit the shooter using it. Most field shotguns have common dimensions. They are designed this way to fit an _average_ shooter. This guy is 5' 10" tall and weighs 160 pounds. If those dimensions describe you, you have about a 60% chance of your gun's fitting you relatively well.

What is so important about gun fit, you might ask. Well... gun fit controls how well you will ever be able to shoot your gun. It affects the gun mount you are able to use; it affects how your head is positioned with your gun mounted; it affects the felt recoil you will experience when you shoot; it affects the accuracy of your swings to targets you shoot at and it can affect your vision if you wear corrective lenses when you shoot.

We shooters come in many different sizes and shapes. It is impossible for one set of stock dimensions to fit all of us. Some stock dimensions are more important than others. The height of the stock's come is one of the most important ones because it controls the height of your eye, which acts like the rear sight on a rifle.

When the eye is not properly aligned with the barrel or rib, the pattern doesn't go where you expect it to go. Sure, the eye can be raised by moving your head forward on a field stock with a rising comb but it won't necessarily stay there during swings.

You can also mash your cheek down on the comb to lower your eye so it's even with the rib but it will probably rise during swings.

You can also raise your cheek off the comb to raise your eye and allow it to look along the rib rather than at the back of the receiver or action but you will be likely to be mashed in the cheek during recoil for your efforts.

Making guns fit, i.e. stock fitting, has been popular with competitive shooters for years. Some shooting disciplines are more aware of well fitting guns than are others. Trap shooters awareness leads the population, followed by skeet and sporting clays shooters. It is a simple evolution of the importance of a well fitting gun.

I learned this long ago, the hard way, during many years of shooting over everything because of my low cheekbones. They placed my eye too far above the rib, much to the benefit of uncounted teal, mallards, pheasants and geese. Many lived because of my ignorance.

*http://www.stockfitting.com*


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Rollin, welcome to Nodak outdooors its the best outdoor site on the web in my opinion and I've looked at them all.

I am very aware of how critical good gun fit is and I plan to buy your book, it sounds very interesting.

I have 2 obvious questions though,

1) whats your background experience for your expertise

2) can you recommend people that can make the changes necessary to change stock dimensions, I live in Georgia and hunt in North Dakota. I have a nice Spanish field grade double I would like to have fitted.

Thanks


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

LOP is a huge issue itself, which effects alignment and proper vision.

i have often wondered who mandated 14 1/4" as the standard LOP?
i would guess that would be the proper length for maybe 60% of shooters out there, with 40% needing an adjustment and 20% of those guys never realizing they had a problem that needed to be addressed.

good points.


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## rollin Oswald (Sep 1, 2007)

Bob:

Your question is one that Ryan, Nodak Outdoors Administrator, asked after deleting my Website URL.

My stock fitting knowledge mysteriously came to me as I was sitting cross-legged on the floor with incense smoke wafting around my head while listening to a snappy Gregorian chant played on a zither with accordion accompaniment. The experience was rather miraculous. When the incense was gone and I was again in a normal state of consciousness, I wrote the book.

Seriously though, I am one who is very poorly fitted by off-the-rack guns. After struggling for more than 20 years with poorly fitting guns (all bought in the hopes of shooting better), I drove from Wisconsin to southwestern Missouri to visit Rinehart Fagin (Sp) to be fitted and have a custom stock made for a TM I was shooting at the time.

During the procedure, I asked many questions, enough to warrant the statement, "We would be able to do the job quicker if you would stop asking so many questions".

The stock fit very well except for the palm swell, which was too small and the stock was returned and another one made, which was a perfect fit.

With the information gained from that experience, I bought every book available, many out of print, that discussed stock fitting. Following that I made stocks for myself for other guns and for my kids and began answering questions on trapshooters.com.

Question-answering proceeded for a year or two and I learned that many shooters were having problems that related to stock fitting. I decided that a stock fitting "guide" was needed, wrote one with about 19 pages and sold it for, as I recall, $9.00.

Over the past five years, the book has been lengthened to its current version, which was printed in Canada. This took place after hiring a professional graphics man to redo and create the more than seventy graphics in the book.

"Stock Fitting Secrets" has sold thousands of copies across the U.S. and in 17 or 18 foreign countries. Last week, books were mailed to shooters in Ireland, Germany and Portugal. Buyers have included stock makers, probably the best known of which is stock fitter and custom stock maker, Fred Wenig http://www.wenig.com who ordered several copies as the book evolved. It is probably he who is responsible for the appearance of my my link on hishttp://www.wenig.com website.

When I discovered this site a few days ago, I knew that hunters were aware of little concerning stock fitting and the importance of shooting a gun that fits, so I wrote the thread.

I answered Ryan's questions and the website URL was replaced. (He originally suspected I was a spammer.)

I limit my stock fitter recommendations to two. That is not to say that there are not other excellent stock fitters in the country because I believe there are. It is just that I have personal experience with only Wenig and the Country Gentleman, Todd Nelson, who has had to many excellent recommendations on trapshooters.com so I know him to be excellent.

A good stock fitter, if you ask him, will recommend changes in your shooting form, if required. Poorly fitting stocks require corruptions in one's shooting form and, why have a stock fitted to a flawed form - unless it was taught to you by Uncle Mopier and he did everything perfectly (and is likely to be canonized in the next few years.)

hunter9494:

I agree that stock fit and shooting form ignorance is widespread. I claim the honor of beginning to change that five or six years ago when I began answering questions on ts.com. Stock fitting information dissemination is my one and only claim to fame.

You mention stock length (LOP or length of pull) as an important dimension. That is especially true when talking about field stocks with their rising combs. Length not only determines how much forward neck lean is required but the likelihood of the cheek's staying in the same place during swings to targets, whether they have feathers or not.

We humans are getting larger and taller as time goes on. 14 1/2 inches has been the norm for at least fifty years. I too have to wonder if it shouldn't be increased a quarter-inch or so.

Along those lines, it should be noted that many shooters use a stance more conducive to shooting rifles. This describes an oblique or edge-on stance that can limit the ability of the shooter to swing in the off direction, (to the left for a right-handed shooter.) It is one of many aspects of shooting form that affects one's shooting success.

You also mentioned that many shooters do not realize they have a problem. This probably holds true for the majority of shooters wielding a gun today. Non-competitive shooters make up the majority of this population and I was a perfect example until about 10 years ago.

I have a genetic anomaly that places my cheekbones farther below my eyes than normal people. It relates to shooting in that it places my eyes too far above the ribs of shotguns and made them shoot well above their points of aim. Myriads of ducks and geese owed their lives to my ignorance.

If you have questions about the validity of material in the book, do as I suggested to Ryan, put a thread on http://www.trapshooters.com or http://www.shotgunworld.com asking, "Is 'Stock Fitting Secrets' any good?" Neither is limited to the competitive shotgun sports.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Rollin,

I have no doubt you know what your talking about and Ryan and I discussed your post.

I am also a moderator on here and we decided to let you post your site. Its a good thing for Nodak to attract positive knowlegable people to contribute to the site.

But my question is not really answered, where do you recommend I get fittted??

Get out the incense :lol:

and thanks I like your sense of humor and I am a former Wisconsinite


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## rollin Oswald (Sep 1, 2007)

Bobm:

I did rather completely and totally avoid answering your question, didn't I? Please accept my apology.

My usual answer to that question is: There are a number of excellent stock fitters in the country. Due to a lack of personal interaction with them however, I recommend only two, unconditionally.

One is Wenig http://www.wenig.com in Lincoln, Missouri, both a stock fitter and a custom stock maker. The other is Todd Nelson, the Country Gentleman - http://www.gunfitter.com, with a home base in Cherokee, Alabama.

Both travel the country and are present at many major shooting events throughout the summer that involve both skeet and trap shooting. I'm not sure about sporting clays events.

Next time, you might consider using a bold font and possibly all caps for the question you want to make sure I don't miss.

I appreciate both your and Ryan's allowing me to post my Website URL on your site. Ryan suggested I put my URL in the "tag line". I followed his directions to "Profile" but saw nothing called a tag line. Might he have been referring to the "Subject" line at the top of the reply screen? Is it correct that I do it as in this reply? The only problem with doing it this way is that the address is not a link to the website whereas http://www.stockfitting.com is a link.

Any direction you can offer will be appreciated.[/url]


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

go to the top of the page and you will find a "profile" choice, open it and scroll down the page to the "signature" block that will allow you to place it there with any comments you want to add, it will then appear in every post you make at the bottom of the post.

I think thats how it works to be honest I've never used it, if it doesnt ask Ryan in a PM hes forgot more about computers than I'll ever know.


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## rollin Oswald (Sep 1, 2007)

Thank you, Bob.

This is a trial run to see if the address is a link.

By golly, it is. Thank you again.


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