# Gunsmithing & 6mm Super L/R (pic Heavy)



## xdeano

Hey guys I wanted to do a little show and tell on my Gun Smith and 6mm SLR.

A little background first;

I'd been looking at a new barrel and possibly a different caliber choice for my Remington 700VS in 22-250 that had lost accuracy and was looking pretty torched inside. I'd been doing a lot of research for about a year prior to even starting this process. I'd looked at many different candidates as a replacement for the 22-250. Some of those were; 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, 260 rem, 243 win, 6mm, 6mm Crusader, among several others. After someone mentioned this little round, I kind of took a liking to it. I had originally fell in love with the 6.5mm Super L/R but decided since I already have a 308, I wanted something a bit smaller. So I started looking at the 6mm SLR and decided that it was the one.

The 6mmSLR is basically what the 243Win should have been in the first place. It has a few alterations to the case design that make it shine. Those include a shoulder angle of 30 degrees instead of 20 degrees, which would make a better funnel. In making the 30 degree shoulder it gives the neck more length. This is caused by the die pushing the shoulder down making some of the shoulder material into a neck. This increased neck allows for a little more versatility in the bullets used as well as how far i want to seat the bullet in or out in the neck.

Here is a picture of the 243win, 6mmSLR(105g Amax), 308win(155g Lapua).









Here is a diagram of the 6mmSLR designed by Robert Whitley. (http://www.6mmar.com).









xdeano


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## xdeano

Robert Whitley advertises 3200fps out of this brass with a 105g bullet and 3000fps out a 115g bullet.

So I contacted a buddy that does a little gun smithing on the side and he told me what I needed to purchase in order to do the build.
I started with the Rem700vs - ripped it down and retained the short action and the stock for the build. 
I started to check into barrels and most of the high end cut rifled barrel blanks were talking 4-6 months wait for a 6mm barrel from the factory. So I started in on my contact list to see if I could pull some strings. It didn't take long and I found a new blank made by the company that I wanted so I ordered it. It took a week from door to door. I ended up with a Bartlein SS 1-8" twist, Medium Palma blank for the build, total price was $360 with shipping. . I then contacted PTG and ordered a 6mmSLR reamer and go gauge as well as a 1/4" straight tapper recoil lug, I couldn't pull any string there and ended up waiting the better part of 2 months. In the mean time I stripped the 700 down to the barreled action and took it to my buddy. He took the barrel off and started the work.

Here is his jig for single point truing actions and bolts.









It give 8 contact points in which to adjust the action while in the lathe. As well as the contact points in the Lathe. His first job was to get the action into the jig and half way centered up.










Once in the jig he chucked into his 4 jawed lathe, he is using a Monson to give him the center of the action. It is a bushing system that rides on the raceways of the action. 









Here he's getting it rough alligned in the lathe. 








To get the exact center he used several dial indicators to give him as little runout as he possibly could get. 









Just another pic of him dialing the action in.









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## xdeano

Here is another from the top of the dialing in.










Once he was dialed in on the machine, he faced off the front of the action, chased and recut the threads and refaced the locking lugs.

Here is the chasing/recutting the threads.









Taking a good look at the inside.









Here is the what the action looked like before he did a final job on the threads. notice the fine metal shaving on the threading, this is about all he took off while chasing the threads. The face is nice and even, for a nice tight 100% contact to the recoil lug. Also notice that there is 100% contact with the bolt lugs. 









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## xdeano

After the action was completed he started in on the bolt. He did the same thing with it as he did with the action. He put it into his handy dandy jig and locked it into his lathe and centered it up using multiple dial indicators to roughly .0001" of dead center and faced off the lapping lugs so they have 100% contact. Cleaned up the nose of the bolt so that it was completely round instead of slightly off center like they come out of the factory.










He also faced the bolt face using another tool out of his Monson truing kit, but I didn't get a picture of that.

Once he got the action and bolt completed, he put them together to check fit. It was so silky smooth you wouldn't believe it was the same action.

This was all done in about 8 hours. Good gunsmithing is a slow a nit picky art and I truely thank the guys that know how to do such a good job. I never knew how much time and level of accuracy these guys look at. It's actually a treat to have been in his machine room to even take any pictures of it. Most machinist don't like you near them while they are working. He explained each process and is a great guy. The level of accuracy is like splitting hairs. It's crazy!

Oh we're not even close to being done...


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## xdeano

The next time I went over to his place I had him drill and tap my reciever for #8 screws. Factory come with #6 screws. It's just an added strength to the base. I didn't get any pictures of this but it was a pretty slick little jig that he had for his mill.

After he had that done, he said that he'd make me a 30mm lapping bar for doing rings. I said sure and he brought home some bar stock. He said, ok it's your turn to play.

So the rest of the afternoon, I got to play on his lathe while he stood over watching me so that I wouldn't crash his machine. I'll tell you want, for the first time running that thing i'd felt a real thrill, my eyes were the size of dinner plates and once I was done with that chunk of steel I had about enough for the day. My eyes and head hurt.

I'll add in a pic of the finished product when I get time.

We didn't get into the barrel because I didn't have my reamer or go gauge at the time, it was a slow wait on that stuff.

more to come...


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## KurtR

Keep it coming i have been looking forward to see how this works for you


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## xdeano

sneak peak...

Here is a 400yd target with the last 3 rounds that I had loaded for it with virgin brass, fireforming at 400yds. It was 7MOA U, and it should have been 7.5moa u. This was just the first test load group and it was only going 2715fps average. This was my minimum charge, it's only up in velocity from here.

Win Brass (formed), Fed210M, 44.0g H1000, 105g Berger Hunting VLD.










Two rounds landed in the same spot. I wish I had more rounds loaded up that day. My 100yd group, i almost urinated on myself. 
Target size is a 12"x12" plate, the box is 4"x4". I didn't give it any wind, wind was from 6-8mph from 3 o'clock.

xdeano


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## Plainsman

xdeano, I am doing the same thing. I just watched a four hour video on the use of the action jib to true center to bolt rather than outside of the action. My barrel came a couple of days ago, so as soon as we get going I'll post some of our pictures. I think he has to order a hardened mandrel from Brownells before we true the action.

I ordered a new machined recoil lug, but now I am trying to decide if I need new heavier recoil lugs on the bolt. What would you do?

Nice pics by the way. We are going to try video. My camera takes stills while it is doing video so we will see how that goes.


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## xdeano

Plainsman,

That's up to you. It may help to get a whole new bolt with the heavy lugs, but you'll be looking at a pretty decent wait time from PTG or other companies for a new bolt body. But they will match your action and slide slick as silk. I'd ask your smith after he's got the action lugs trued up to see what he says about your bolt lugs and how much contact you are getting on your lugs and if he can get away with cleaning up a minimum material for full contact or you'll have some issues with spacing and extrating.

But you should be fine with what you have. Ask the smith, they're the pros.

The little rod sticking out of the action is how he centers the action. He centers the jig in the lathe then centers the action using the monson dial in rod and adjusts the action inside the jig with the 8 screws. It takes a little while to get everything tuned in.

I'd thought about doing video, but i didn't figure i had enough memory on my card to do that. Can't wait to see some video, get it up. 

Deano


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## duckp

Good stuff Deano!Thanks.I'm waiting on more targets.
Think I now know who the 'Smith' is but I'm not talking.


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## xdeano

:beer:


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## AdamFisk

Looking good thus far. You gonna make us beg for rifle pictures and final range report or what??? 

That's nuts you had 90* 6-8mph winds at 400 and showed little to no drift. With my .308 I'd have been off target. Fricken awesome!!


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## xdeano

Yeah the wind drift was great, i noticed this with my gun smiths 22-243 also. 400yds isn't that far. This is why when i say that shooting coyotes at 400yds is a chip shot. Because it is. people have a hard time with believing that.

There is more to come, I've got the barrel threading coming.

xdeano


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## xdeano

The next time I went down to my smith I brought him my barrel, PTG chamber reamer and go gauge for the 6mmSLR.

Barrel specs;
Bartlein SS 5R Medium Palma, bore dia .237, grove dia .243, 31" 
Reamer was made by PTG 6mmSuper LR/S and go gauge.
Recoil Lug was also made by PTG, 1/4" with parallel sides.

He asked how long i wanted the barrel, I had decided on 24" with an AAC QD blackout mount on the muzzle. He marked the barrel, chucked it in the lathe and cut off about 4" with a hack saw. He then preceded to dial in the barrel with dial gauges on the back side of the lathe where the muzzle end was sticking out and on the front side of the machine he used a rod that stuck into the bore of the rifle. I didn't get a picture of him dialing it in but he got it to within .0001" of being dead center.

Here is a pic of the chamber end of the barrel sticking out of the lathe with a couple of passes to start the recess for recoil lug and to get the outside thread diameter for the action. 

















In this picture he has faced of the barrel, turned it down to where it will fit the thread dia of the action. He's measuring the distance between the face of the bolt recess and the recoil lug shoulder to ensure that he's got enough of a gap for the bolt recess to allow free movement of the bolt and for gas exchange. 









Here you can see the bolt recess in the barrel, and a small line forward of the face that is just a scribe to allow him to pull the threads when he's going to stop. It's basically a clear area to stop the threads so they don't keep going and crash the machine. forward of that line is a nice crisp shoulder for the recoil lug to rest on. The threading is next, but unfortunately i was watching how he did thing to even worry about the camera. 









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## xdeano

After he got it threaded for the action, he started boring the chamber with a bit that was slightly under sized in comparison of the finished round. 









You can see in this picture a little better, the threads, and recoil lug space and the sharp shoulder. Kind of a stair step. 









After drilling it out, he used a boring bar to make sure everything was completely straight and true. This just cuts off a very small amount of material. This hole is what the reamer if following up into the chamber. The dia of the hole is less than the dia of the base of the brass so it is constantly cutting material until it is finished. 









Quick couple of pics of the reamer in a floating chuck. 

















Reamer is part way in.









All the way in. Notice that there is still reamer showing even though it's all the way in, this is allow the small shavings of metal to move down the flutes of the reamer and not get hung up inside the reamer. 









That basically took the better part of a day to do all of this work.

continued...


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## xdeano

I forgot to mention that he gave me a quick task to do while I was waiting on the reamer. I'd mentioned to him about putting on a larger bolt handle vs the factory stock on. He said it wasn't a problem. And he made me two different knobs, both different and he said to pick the one I wanted and weld it on. So my job was to grind down the ball and weld on the new knob. The grinding took about an hour and the welding took about 5 seconds. I only had a little splatter on the knob after i was done welding it, but i took the dremel after it and smoothed it off.

Some will appreciate the pic. 









After we got the action pretty well done, i had to leave and come home, but I left the barreled action and parts with him for the next two weeks so that he could get the muzzle threaded in 5/8x24 for the AAC Blackout. Along with blasting it and painting it with coyote tan Cerakote. 









After he got it back together he stuck it in one of his stocks and made up 20 rounds to do a fire check. He made up 10 rounds at 44.0g H1000 and 10 at 45.0g H1000. He ended up shooting all but 4 of the 44.0g and 5 of the 45.0g. He said the 44.0g did a bug hole for him. So when I got it, i shot the 45.0g just to sight in with and I shot 1 of the 44.0g to get my velocity and shot the other 3 rounds at 400yd which was the target that was above.

He brought me the barreled action and it was up to me to get the rest done. He brought it up Saturday, I bedded it into my stock on Sunday using Devcon 10110 bedding compound. I will have to say that is the nicest stuff for doing a bedding job, it doesn't goo all over the place and it's easy to clean up. After letting it cure for 24hrs. I broke it out of the stock. It turned out perfect. If I would have been thinking I could have done another thread on bedding a rifle. After bedding was done, i took the stock and smeared a thin coat of bedding compound on the stock with a Popsicle stick and use steel wool to give it some texture. I let it cure over night and used a 200grit sandpaper to knock down the high spots. Then I did a quick duracoat paint job on the stock. I used some left over paint that Savage260 gave me. The base is sand, and the brown is 12:1 (sand and brown). The green is 12:1 (sand and OD). If I would do it again, i'd go with a 4:1 mixture, to make it a hair darker. But this color will work very well also and I don't think I'll change it.

Here's a finished pic of the product.








6mm Super LR/S
Night Force 15MOA base with #8 screws
NF 5.5-22x50 NP-R1 HS Zero stop
HS Precision (factory stock)
Rem factory trigger set at 2#, will be in that 1.5 range if i have any say. May swap it out with a Jewell. 
AAC Blackout, AAC 7.62SD (not shown).

continued...


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## xdeano

I appreciate those who have followed the thead, i just wanted to let you guys know how fun it was to watch how art if made. It was a very cool and enlightening process. For those who are thinking about doing a custom build, I say go for it. The costs aren't to bad, it's the wait time that'll kill you.

I haven't gotten a lot of time to mess with loads in this rifle yet. I was able to get one Ladder Test done at 300yds with a grain distribution of 44.0g to 48.0g H1000. Hodgdon says that max is 46.0g Compressed H1000, but I showed no pressure signs at all at this range. I was ranging from 2700fps - 3000fps with these charges. The target proved to be pretty inconclusive to me. It looked like i'd shot it with a shotgun at 5 feet. Just one big hole. So i'll probably end up doing a Ladder Test at 600yds just to get some concrete data. My goal with this rifle was 3100fps with a 105g bullet. I'm almost there with the H1000, but i'm maxed out and I don't want to push my luck. SO, the next step is to try some H4831sc or back my H1000 load down a bit and use a magnum primer to increase my pressures and flash to see if I can't get a better burn with the H1000 because it's such a slow and cooler burning powder.

I'll post up some targets here if I get a couple of good days without wind to work up a decent load. I have a couple in the hopper that I need to try.

I'll also try and post up some pictures of a coyote or two to let you guys what kind of damage there is.

thanks guys,

Deano


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## AdamFisk

Get the Jewell Dean. A rifle like that is worthy of one. You won't regret it.

How is it working with Duracoat. No blasting with that stuff right? Just spray it on and air cure? What kind of sprayer you use. The stock looks good.

I got a couple rifles you can borrow if you want to make a bedding tutorial.  I'd really like to watch/help somebody who knows what their doing with that. Be a great thing to know how to do.


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## KurtR

Getting a new stock soon and thinking about bedding my self to. Just scared i will not get it to release and have a real mess up. Threads like this are awsome thanks for all the pics and info


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## barebackjack

Bedding really isnt that tough of a job if you pay attention to what your doing. Like painting, its 99% prep work.

If you can reload, you can bed an action.


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## Savage260

Deano, nice thread, I really liked the Reese's pic. Did you put the rifle in the basket of your bike when you took it to your smith? :wink: Just a thought on the H1000, my results with the Edge were pretty iffy until I started using the Mag primers, but with those cases I should have started with mags any way. It made a world of difference though, so it is worth a try.


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## xdeano

Adam, 
Duracoat is easy to work with. Just make sure you rough up your surfaces for better adhesion. And clean the surfaces off really well. I just used an airbrush that I have for doing art stuff from back in college. Works well. 
Bedding a rifle is easy and like BBJ said pay attention. The main point when working with the bedding material is to put a really good coat of release agent on the parts you don't want the bedding in. Another wise thing is having a roll of paper towels at hand and a garbage close by. As well as having a lot of Q-tips and acetone for cleanup. 
I'll take a Jewell trigger under review.  hehe

I'd done only 3 other rifles in the past and I'd always used that agraglass stuff that you can get at scheels. Well my GAP came with MarineTex bedding and my smith mentioned Devcon 10110, it actually has steel in bedded in the compound, i've heard of people taking a magnet to it and it sticking. (edit, I had to see if it was correct). This was extra that i let dry, stuck a magnet to it and it picked it up. Anyhow it's probably the easiest stuff i've ever worked with, it is the consistency of peanut butter and it doesn't get messy at all. It's spendy stuff but work unreal. 









Savage260,
I'll have to give the Mag primers a try before i totally discontinue using it. It should give me a little bit of a boost. It's such a slow burning powder and it may need a bit of help. 
Oh, and it fits pretty nice on my basket. 

Deano


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## KurtR

They have a real nice how to bed on snipers hide by william roscoe and after reading i think i will try once i get the new stock. Seems i learn better with pictures than just reading. sometimes i scare my self out of doing stuff then when done it really isnt as hard as i thought. wish i when i was in school i would have taken machining while i was taking drafting at tech.


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## airforcehobit

This gun is awesome. I will build one some day. Heavy but worth every ounce


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## bearhunter

just found this post. Great tutorial Dean.


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## barebackjack

airforcehobit said:


> This gun is awesome. I will build one some day. Heavy but worth every ounce


Shoot.

If you think this ones heavy, you should shoulder his other one! Couldnt pay me to lug that hand cannon around.


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## barebackjack

For anyone thats wanting to bed a rifle themself but doesnt feel they can tackle the job.

Try bedding your scope base to your action first. Its a much simpler job that really includes all the processes of bedding an action and its much MUCH harder to screw up. This will give you a good feel for the processes before you tackle the bigger job of action bedding.

And in the case you DO screw it up, a base it easily knocked off a receiver after being in a freezer (or with the correct application of heat.....I would refer to a gunsmith if going the heat route though as you could warp the action).


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## xdeano

I haven't weighed it at all but it's very similar to my old 700 VS in weight, I'd say 8.5lbs for the rifle and another lb or so for the bipod, and scope. suppressor weighs 19oz. so I'm guessing right in that 12 - 12.5lbs. The Gap is 18lbs, and I always haul that around coyote hunting. It would wear a guy out after a day of hunting but it wasn't to bad. Bad thing is that it would sink in the snow like a hot piece of brass.

I agree, do a rail bedding job is hard to mess up. The tip with sticking it in the freezer is a good one, up north during the winter just stick it outside for a half hour, then bring the rifle in the house and get a 2x4 or similar and give the barrel a good pop and it'll come sliding out of the action really nice.

xdeano


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## xdeano

Well I was able to get out yesterday after noon to shoot a few different loads with the 6slr. After looking at my 300yd Ladder test that I thought was pretty inconclusive I started to see a very nice trend that seemed hidden before. It was in the very last part of my shot string, at shot 15 - 20, and very nice in the 17-18. Which calculated out to 47.2g - 47.4g of H1000.

I wanted to see what a few different primers would do with my velocity spread so I loaded up 5 rounds @ 47.4g with Fed210M, 5 with 47.4g and Wolf/Tula primers, and 5 with CCI-BR2 and 47.4g H1000.

The Fed210M averaged 2953fps with ES 13.67, SD 6.78. 
The Wolf LR averaged 2937fps with ES 24.31, SD 13.85
The CCI-BR2 averaged 2956fps with ES 23.52, SD 10.44

So with this test I determined that the Fed210M primers were a little more consistent.

All the groups with the 47.4g were around that .5 mark at 100yds, with a majority of them touching but with the suppressor getting warm and the loose nut behind the scope the groups opened up. But I really wasn't after group size, but more after the numbers. I'll test this same charge at 200 and 300 to make a choice. My goal for this build was 3050 - 3100fps, but with the barrel being cut to 24" I knew that I'd be loosing some velocity, but I'm happy with what I have with the H1000. I'll try some other powders to increase my velocity a bit when I find the time. I know that I can safely push 48.0g H1000 and get 3025fps pretty easy but my ES and SD open up a little and my group size will open because of that.

The main reason I'm burning the H1000 is barrel life, I want to get as much as I can out of this barrel. Round count as of now is: 91. (1-16-12).


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## xdeano

By the way those numbers are off virgin brass, the only thing done was FL resize to make the new shoulder. I can't wait to see what those numbers will be like after i fireform these brass to final chamber specs.

xdeano


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## barebackjack

xdeano said:


> The Fed210M averaged 2953fps with ES 13.67, SD 6.78.
> The Wolf LR averaged 2937fps with ES 24.31, SD 13.85
> The CCI-BR2 averaged 2956fps with ES 23.52, SD 10.44


Id say about 50% more consistent. :wink:


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## xdeano

Roger that!

xdeano


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## Plainsman

deano, I think our gunsmiths went to school together.  I suppose they keep up on the current gunsmithing literature. Today we talked about hogging out my stock and his idea on the front aluminum recoil area was to plane it .020 below a circle around the recoil screw. Sort of a pillar with a .020 X1/2 inch area until it's bedded. I think I will leave the rear contact area as is. I told him I would bed it myself, so he ordered that Devcon 10110 which he recommended.


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## xdeano

Sounds like a good guy. 

If you've never used Devcon, you'll really like the stuff. So easy to work with. A 1lb can will go pretty far, I'd say 3 guns or so. Seal the stuff back up well, give the lids a wrap with some electrial tape, it'll last longer. I should pull mine apart and take a picture of the finished results.

xdeano


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## xdeano

Just an update on that 47.4g H1000, 105g Berger Hunting VLD, Federal 210M primers, Win brass.

Average was in the 2950fps range 
ES 8.55
SD 6.40

I've never gotten my ES/SD's under 10 with anything. It's unreal. Very consistent. Consistency = Accuracy.

xdeano


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## xdeano

Here is a target shot this morning. I wanted to show you what those little ES/SD's will do for you. Now I haven't gone all crazy with weight sorting bullets, or brass. I'm using cheap Winchester brass.










Hope you guys enjoy. This gun will shoot 3/8" or smaller pretty easy.

xdeano


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## knutson24

Are you sure that's a three shot group?It sure looks like only one bullet hole to me! :wink: I have greatly enjoyed following this thread, especially with all the pics. Thanks for sharing.

Knutson


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## Vernon.Miller

Mind educating a new guy to rifle terminology? What is ES and SD?


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## xdeano

ES = extreme spread. This is just a velocity spread from your slowest bullet to your fastest bullet. For example, the ES of 2947 and 2953 is 6. 
SD = Standard Deviation. this is more of an average of sorts. It's a percentage of your average in which all your numbers lay.

Getting both of these numbers in the single digits gives your final round a very good consistent velocity which will give you accuracy. Accuracy is King!

Some things that might cause higher ES/SD's are bearing surfaces not being the same length, powder inconsistencies-charge weights, or lots. primers, neck tension. etc.

xdeano


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## Longshot

Very nice rifle! Now I've got the itch.


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## xdeano

Lol, it would be a good rifle for the little man.  hehehe Be a good excuse to get a new rig.

xdeano


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## Vernon.Miller

xdeano said:


> ES = extreme spread. This is just a velocity spread from your slowest bullet to your fastest bullet. For example, the ES of 2947 and 2953 is 6.
> SD = Standard Deviation. this is more of an average of sorts. It's a percentage of your average in which all your numbers lay.
> 
> Getting both of these numbers in the single digits gives your final round a very good consistent velocity which will give you accuracy. Accuracy is King!
> 
> Some things that might cause higher ES/SD's are bearing surfaces not being the same length, powder inconsistencies-charge weights, or lots. primers, neck tension. etc.
> 
> xdeano


Thanks for clarifying.

Let see if I picked it up right. Your ES would be the difference between the max and min of the velocities in X shots. your SD is going to be (I'm not going to place the equation in) of the same shots from the measurements of the velocities. SD is a result from the measurements based on number of shots and the velocities of said shots? Is that right?


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## xdeano

correct.

The lower the better.

xdeano


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## xdeano

Here is a quick follow up on this rounds performance. I rarely take pictures of things that I shoot, because I don't think it's necessary. But i had my phone with this day and decided, i'd give you guys an idea of what the exit looks like with the Berger 105g Hunting VLD. I've shot a few straight on and they totally eat the bullet, no exit at all, broad side shots I typically end up with a quarter to fifty cent size hole. The picture looks a lot worse than it is. He took a 30 yard run and rolled/slid down a hill about 50 yds. Then sat at the bottom tell I could get there which was about 20 min later because I kept calling the area. 









Yes I shot it with a stick... and yes that is part of the lug that got sucked out. 









enjoy guys, 
xdeano


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## AdamFisk

Meh, shot this gun last weekend. It's OK.



Shooting at the same targets and comparing his drop and drift against my 308s, it becomes apparent how nice that cartridge really is. It's almost cheating!! :wink:


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## xdeano

Almost. 

But, it sure makes shooting those 720yd plates seem like a cake walk. Even with the winds we were dealing with. Just think those were the slow loads. The one i'm working on currently with my blended powder will be 200fps faster. :beer: it'll eat a 308 for breakfast.

Xdeano


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## AdamFisk

Bad influences!!!!

That's OK. Just waiting patiently for you to get all the hard work done. Once BBJ buys me that USO he's trying to talk me into, I'll be calling for the reamer. :lol:


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## xdeano

Most of my work is done. When you get that scope i have the reamer. :wink:

Xdeano


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## Savage260

Dang, xdeano, over on SavageShooters they are really bagging on the 6SLR. Go over there and give em the what for!!! Doesn't make any sense to me, guys shooting 6BR, or 6XC or 6PPC ect, are cutting down the 6SLR as "reinventing the wheel". I guess it is only good if THEY shoot it, not if some one else shoots it. Sorry, but you better give that crappy rifle to a nice guy in DL, his wife is having another baby. He won't be able to buy any more rifles for a while. I think you know him. :beer:


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## xdeano

There i put my 2 cents on savageshooters. Thanks 260 for the headsup.
xdeano


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## Csquared

Deano, kudos on the post. I'm usually turned off instantly by this type of post because they usually come off as a "look what I got that you don't" kinda thing used to stroke the poster's ego.

Your's didn't come off that way, and for what it's worth, I appreciate that.

One question, though. Did you consider a 244 Ackley? If so, why did you rule it out?

And nice to see a discussion of sd's on here. SO MANY shooters fail to see the value of that feature on their chronographs. Actually means more to me than velocity :wink:


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## xdeano

Csquared, thanks for the kind words.

I started the post to basically show people how the whole accuracy process is accieved. Gun smithing is an art. Some very tallented people out there doing some precision work.

I'm definitely not into gloating, just want people to know that there is something different out there, no necessary that it's any better than anything else. Heck I would have chose a 6mm rem or 243win to do the same work as the cartridge that I chose. It 's not better.

You know I didn't even think about the 244 AI. I do like the 6mm Rem but I just wanted a shorter round. I also am not a fan of fire forming brass. The added amount of velocity with the AI may not even be accurate and you'd be forced to slow the round down to acheive an accurate round. It's also a little overbore so you'll be pushing a little more powder down the same size bore which often times lead to shortened barrel life, even with the 40 degree shoulder. Neat round though, and it's got speed. I've got a few coworkers that are using the 22-6mm for coyotes and they sware by it.

There are all kinds of rounds out there, the round chosen is a personal preference. Just so long as they go bang. 

ES/SD numbers are overlooked and they're kind of important in finding a consistent round. Consistency counts for a lot of accuracy. It also shows the potential of a certain cartridge. Velocity isn't always everything if all you get is a shotgun pattern.

xdeano


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## Csquared

Deano, I owe somewhat of an apology. I saw mention of 3200 fps with a 105 grain bullet, and that's 100fps faster than bullets 10 grains lighter in all of my .243's, so I assumed your cartridge was "improved", hence my question, as a 244 Ackley would be an easy option if you wanted to increase powder capacity AND neck length.

If I don't start paying better attention to facts I risk being called a democrat :wink:


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## xdeano

LOL.

No apology necessary. I know what you were saying.

Yeah they don't call it AI, that's why it's called super (super duper), they had to make up a name so it wouldn't be lumped in the same pile. I do think the 6mm AI would be the next option, then after that would be the 6-06mm or the 6-06 AI. They're all speed demons.

The AI is basically indicative of a 40 degree shoulder and a blown out case.
The Super is a 30 degree shoulder and a crushed in case. with a grain less case capacity than a standard 243.

I just like the fact that I can get a little more velocity out of a standard case by just running it through a die to make it more efficient by running less powder and have a decent gain. Most other cases like the 243 AI, you can get the velocity but you'll have to add powder to increase velocity. The increased powder can cause more throat erosion. But with the 40 degree shoulder it holds the powder in the case longer and funnels it through the neck and into the tube as the powder burns down the barrel, that's how it can have slightly more barrel life then the standard 243.

basically the longer neck on the SLR helps in torching the brass rather than the throat. The same would be similar to the longer necks on the 6mm Rem and several others. It tends to throw the heat further up the barrel then the standard round. So instead of the barrel being hot to the touch at the chamber, it actually heats the barrel about half way down. So the throat stays cooler. cooler is a relative term though. It still gets hit by a lot of heat and pressure.

When I was looking at doing a new barrel, i ran through a lot of different bullets pro/cons to get what I though would be a benifit for what i'm doing. I settle on the slr for a lot of different reason. It's no better then many of the 6mm cartridges it just does it differently. I'd actually thought a lot about the 6mm Competition Match (6 CM). Another one of those rounds that does a lot of work. It's got a 31 degree shoulder. and looks pretty similar to the 6slr.

Here is a pic of the 243win, 6CM, 6SLR;








It's basically an AI with reliable feeding.

xdeano


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## spitfire_er

Nice little write up. I've been meaning to do something simliar for a while, but you beat me to it! Seems everytime I get going on a barrel, taking pictures becomes a distraction.

We were just talking about the 6 SLR the other day and I had not really studied up on it yet. Seems like it would be something I might have to put together in the future. I have built several of my own based on different wildcats with the 30 degree improved shoulder and I must say I am a fan! I have been told that the 30 degree shoulder provides the best fluid dynamics out the front of the case when the powder is exiting the case.

I'm currenlty shooting a 6mm-06 with the 30 degree shoulder and it spits out 105 A-max's at 3,250 which is an upper node. There is another at 3,350 I believe, but the brass gets hammered at these speeds. Not to say you can't get up to that 3,200 fps range, but just seems like you're going to be buring up your barrel a little faster than you may want. We're getting 2,000-2,500 rds out of these barrels with these loads and a good stainless barrel. I would expect you to get around the same running in the 2,900 to 3,000 range.

Anyways... I sold my .243 win last year.... so after reading this and thinking.... a mini 6mm-06?.. I might have to build one! Good Stuff!


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## xdeano

Spitfire_er,

You're right about the 30 degree shoulder having the best fluid dynamics. It's proven that the 30 degree funnel is the most efficient. And it is easy on feeding in both bolt and gas guns.

I'm using H1000 powder so i'm hoping that with the cooler powder I can get up in that 3500 round mark. They say that the 6CM is getting that 4000 round mark with a little more velocity and powder burn. So it's only a guess. I'll let everyone know what I end up with through my stainless barrel. I'm keeping track of round count.

I say go for it, It's a fun little round. It's super accurate and the numbers don't lie on consistency and reliability.

xdeano


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## xdeano

A quick update;

I've got about 250 rounds down the tube. It's still shooting really nice. I'm still getting very low digit extreme spreads and standard deviations. I decided to try some 105g Amax just for grins and ended up with 3050fps out of 47.4g H1000. If I want more velocity I can move to my blended mix and it'll get me up to that 3150fps range but I feel that it's good enough where it's at, that extra 100fps isn't going to add much anyhow.

I picked up some R-P brass and resized it to the SLR, I will tell you, if you're going to do a 6SLR to go directly to the R-P brass, it's much more uniform then the Win brass. If you want to load and go it's the way to do it. If you want good brass with a lot of prep work then go with Lapua. But for now with the numbers that i'm getting, i see no need to move to Lapua brass.

One kind of cool thing about the design of this round, I went out to do a test load of the amax and shot 5 rounds in rapid succession, I felt the barrel and it was still cool. I then shot another string of 5 and it was just warm enough to feel, that's not the cool thing. The warmest part of the barrel was about half way down the tube, not at the throat. Which leads me to believe that a combination of shoulder angle, long necks and a slow burning powder really will have an impact on barrel life. Time will tell I guess.

xdeano


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## AdamFisk

I have 250 pcs of Winchester brass you should buy.  Brand new and all the same lot!

So what bullet are you settling on, the Amax ??

Did you notice much differences between the new brass formed with the die and once fired?


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## xdeano

Rem brass my friend.  I'd say just use them up and when the primer pockets loosen up, pick up some rem brass.

I've actually settled on the Berger 105 Hunting vld for every day use. I'm just messing with the amax for shooting a few prairie dogs at long range. It won't be my primary gun, just for some long range stuff.

I havne't noticed anything as far as accuracy changes from formed virgin brass and twice fired stuff. It's all the same. I do how ever shoot all my brass, then reload all my brass so they've all had exactly the same number of reloads on them.

xdeano


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## airforcehobit

The other day I saw this rifle shoot the knife edge of a 3/8 plate at 500yds. :beer: :beer:

To clairify one of the cables that held the gong let loose and it hung sideways to our location. The call was made to take her anyways and the rifle made the shot.

Unreal gun deano


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## xdeano

Thanks man! You're always welcome at my place any time. It was a hell of a shot. Nice work! 
I'll post up a pic when i get to a hookup. 
xdeano


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## xdeano

Ok, finally got the picures off the camera.

Here is the picture of the plate that was at 500yds. (Lasered).










Close up of the hit, you can faintly see the new copper deposits. It wasn't a dead center hit on the edge, but it hit it hard enough to make an audible hit at 500.










The next think i'll be testing with the SLR is the 105g Berger hybrid. I'm currently shooting the 105g Berger Hunting VLD. The picture shows the 105 Hunting VLD on the left and the new 105 Berger hybrid on the right. Only slightly longer and with a slightly higher BC. The hunting VLD is .532, the Hybrid is .547. After running some of the numbers it's only going to give me 0.1 MOA at 600yds and 0.4 MOA at 1000yds. So basically not enough to shoot the difference. But they say they're less sensitive at finding the sweet spot. I guess they don't mind a jump.










Deano


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## AdamFisk

You will like the hybrids I suspect. They work for me in the 6.5. may have found my go to load in 4 rounds.  Not quite where I want to be velocity wise, and supposedly I have quite a bit more room to play with, but if they shoot as well as they did tonight at further distances, I can't ignore that. More testing to follow obviously...

That's a heck of a shot by the way. :sniper:


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## spitfire_er

How's the rifle working out for you now?

I'm going to build another F-class rifle and was going to do a 6xc, but am considering the 6 SLR. You've put up some good data on loads and misc other stuff and it's nice to see some real life numbers.


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## xdeano

It's shooting like a dream. It's still shoots excellent. I'd definitely cut another barrel when this one is burned up. I had thought about the 6xc myself before going with the 6SLR but i wanted something with a little more velocity. I'm a firm believer of the 30 degree shoulder and long necks, I guess there was an article that is suppose to be coming out in a magazine that is very interesting with long necks and shoulder angle. If I get the article, i'll post it up.

I'd say do a 6SLR, you'll like it! It is more of cheater rifle then the 6xc at Fclass. 

xdeano


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## spitfire_er

Yeah, i have several wildcats with long necks and 30 degree shoulders including my current f-class rifle i built in. 280 RCBS which is a blown out and improved. 280. The 6slr would fit right in my family or cartridges. What were you using for a sizer die? I'm going to be using an in line seater from now on with an abor press for my target rifles.


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## xdeano

I'm using a Full-lenght Redding S-Die to resize the 243 win brass. It's a one time process that i would do anyhow. With new brass i run them through a die to make sure my necks are concentric and everything is the same. It's basically the same process with forming the 6SLR out of 243win brass. Just lube and size, load and shoot. The virgin brass shots very low ES, and SD's and is consistent from virgin brass to 3 times reloaded. After initial shaping, i'm bumping shoulders .0015 to .002 and bushing the necks down .002". it is consisten all the way around. I've looked into an arbor press just for seating, but i'm getting zero to .001 runout the way it is, so it's kind of a moot point.

It would definitely fit right in! :wink: better make one. oke:

What kind of velocities are you getting out of that 280 RCBS? specs please. I talked to a guy who was making a 7XR, which is a 338 Norma cut and renecked to 7mm. It looked just awesome. Maybe some day.

xdeano


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## spitfire_er

xdeano said:


> What kind of velocities are you getting out of that 280 RCBS? specs please. I talked to a guy who was making a 7XR, which is a 338 Norma cut and renecked to 7mm. It looked just awesome. Maybe some day.
> 
> xdeano


Right now im running it at 2850 with the berger 180's vld. I only have 200 some documented rounds down it but have yet to play with it much. Half those were shot in matches. I may bump up to 2950 this season but i have not had a chance to work on loads yet this winter. I know it will go over 3k with the 180's but im getting consistent 1/2 moa at 600 with it now so thats what i settled on for last season. My rifle has a 28" krieger that is a straight 1.25" tube with a 90 degree crown. Neck turned sorted and cleaned up norma brass. Mag primers and 4831sc. You can just load. 280 brass and shoot but mine of course is all preped. :

Im going to build a hunting rifle in this cal one of these days but too many others to do first.

That 7-338 sounds overbore to me. But thats why barrels can be replaced.

Im half way through a .338 RUM build now so the 6mm will be next. 
Ill reply better when im on my computer.


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## spitfire_er

I take one of my previous statements back. The .280 RCBS F-class rifle has a 30" Krieger, not a 28". It's been a while since i built it, and my new .338 RUM I finished at 28" so I got the two mixed up.

I thought I had a photo of the 280 rounds but have not gotten around to it yet.

Instead I do have a photo of my 6mm-06 with 105 Amax and 30 degree shoulder next to a .243 win. The three shot group is from that gun off a bipod at 500 yards.

The target photo is my last outting with the F-class rifle at the 300 yard line. There are 20 for score and 4-5 sighters on there. 10 ring is just under 3" and X is just under 1.5". It was pretty gusty that day 15-20 mph winds and I only had a 14x scope, so it went OK.


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## Plainsman

Very nice setup spitfire_er. The long range thing is addictive to me.


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## xdeano

indeed a very nice setup. Long range is very addictive. Especially when you have something that will perform for you and you're confident in. It gives you a bit of satisfaction, or instantaneous gratification of being able to hit that far out.

xdeano


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## xdeano

Here was a little challenge that I put on Fishingbuddy.com because someone was pushing. I've since left that site because of the poor sports.

*Coffee Can Challenge*
Regular sized metal coffee can at 600+yds. One round, cold bore. No sighters, no fowlers.

I have done this challenge twice now, two different days and one round each day. The key to this whole challenge is to be confident in a cold bore shot, one that you would make on game. It'll also get you better with calling wind and doping at odd ranges.

Here is a pic of the 6SLR at work at 665yds on Folgers.










I have given you the challenge, take it and have fun with it. Give it a try and post your results.

xdeano


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## spitfire_er

Sounds like fun, I'll for sure give it a try. Might have to warm up a little though, I'm not as egar to lay out in the snow as I once was.

I'll give it a try with my 6mm-06. I know the gun can do it if I can dial it in correctly. The 280 would be cheating!. Would be fun to try at 1,000 with my 280 though!


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## spitfire_er

xdeano,

Did you settle on the 47.4 gr H1000 and the berger 105's @ 3,050 fps? If so are you seeing any difference in consistancy in temeperature changes.

I tried H1000 extensively in my 6-06 but could not get the consistancy like I could out of Ramshot Mag. I should also mention that like said before mine is running right at 3,250 fps, but I also have a 26" barrel on that rifle.


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## xdeano

Spitfire-er
My 105g amax and rem brass is running 3050fps with 47.7g H1000, but with win brass same charge and 105 bergers i'm only running 2953fps. It's slow i know, but accuracy is just so darn good.

My special blend i'm running 3164fps with the bergers. also great accuracy.

I can go do a chrony test to give you some spreads and accuracy with this cold weather, just give me a bit.

later,
Deano


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## CoyoteBlitz

deano, 
machining is very intriguing isnt it?? im 19, spent two years in a vocational program, currently working in a tool and die shop and heading off to college a Vincennes U this fall for tool and die and advanced CNC machining. this thread has really intrigued me!! new hobby?? im sure going to give it a whirl! no hijacking intended!!!


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## xdeano

CoyoteBlitz,

You know if I had 10-11K for a nice Grizzly I'd have a lot less free time. I'd love to have a decent laith and an end mill. But I'd have to build a building to put it in, A 20x20 building would work well just to start off with. With a paint booth, blast cabinet, and oven. I could easily sink 50K into fun toys but. Metal work has always intrigued me, my family is littered with machinists. I had an uncle that use to make a lot of small parts for Boeing. His basement was unreal. I just wish i could have had his tools, they were nice. But when he died his wife got rid of them for basicall nothing, it was a real shame I wasn't older and more interested.

You need a brain to run a CNC, that's to much for me to think about, makes what i have hurt. 

Deano


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## CoyoteBlitz

CNC is hard at first and a lot to learn but what you can do is phenomenal!! youtube 5 axis machining, so neat! ive thought about making my own rings and bases before since it would be relativity easy


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## xdeano

It can be very rewarding. With the gun market the way it is right now, a guy who knows how to program and run a CNC could make some good money on making gun parts, including AR uppers and lowers out of billet aluminum. I wish i could, i guy could make some serious cash. Heck the cast lowers are going for 500$ for a cheap one. It's just unreal. It would be nice to be able to make rings, bases among other things. Even doing chamber reaming, on a large quantity of one chambering, say 223 would be fast money. 

I'd also be kind of hesitant to be getting into the gun smithing business right now with all the political BS flying around, just so uncertain where we're headed. Make 'em while you can!

xdeano


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## CoyoteBlitz

the opportunities and projects are endless! its like a grown mans candy land lol. im sure ill venture my own rings here before too long. thinking about something simple like a bolt handle just to get started on something, a first project


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## xdeano

Bolt knobs are easy. I had my smith turn me a small knob for the 6SLR and I had him send it to me. All I had to do was grind my existing knob off square then i welded the knob on. It turned out very well. Here is a picture of before the bolt got Cerakoted.

In the groves I can put rubber o-rings and it's very comfortable, and gripy.










xdeano


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## xdeano

My smith also is a great guy, he allowed me to run his machine for about 2 hours to cut a 30mm lapping tool for doing rings. It turned out perfect with some guidance from him. 

xdeano


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## CoyoteBlitz

similar to one id like to turn. how did you grind and weld yours on?


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## CoyoteBlitz

and also im looking to put it on a savage 93r17, just something nicer then the plain jane ball


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## xdeano

I didnt have to grind any welds. It had a hole drilled all the way through so i put the knob over the stem and put a cloths pin on the stem so the new ball wouldnt slide and it leveled the ball also. Then i welded the ball to the stem from the inside. Just turn up the heat and wire flow and its not going anywhere. If you have any holes just fill with devcon 10110 and paint.
xdeano


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## CoyoteBlitz

hey that works! never thought of it that way, but i really like the grooves cut to fit an o-ring, good idea sir.


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## xdeano

Sure makes it easy to put a new knob on and you don't need to have it threaded if you want a fixed knob anyhow. Some guys like the shank threaded so that they can put a new knob on every week. I'd rather have one nice one that feels great, isn't to big so i can slip the gun into a pack and not get it caught on things and big enough to use with gloves on.

xdeano


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