# HSUS is at it again



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/ ... lic-lands/

They are looking to ban lead on federal lands. I suppose the real idea is they think if they outlaw lead that they can that way stop hunting. Don't anyone tell them about the new all copper bullets like the Barnes X bullets.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Not defending them Plains, but we have a very screwed up lead rules for federal lands. If you are chasing waterfowl it requires steel or non toxic, but I can hunt over water and shoot lead chasing doves all I want. Not defending the ban but about the only thing I use lead for is at the range for shotgunning and target practice with rifles.

I normally shoot steel for upland because it is easier than keeping track of the shells unless I bring out one of my old guns for use. I have not used anything but TSX for big game for years as well.

I am against HSUS to be clear, but I would not be surprised if we see some uniformity on use of lead on fed lands regardless of what these jokers try!!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I'm like Ron when it comes to non lead. Much easier for me to only use steel for all my scattergun ing, other than trap and sporting clays. Haven't used anything but copper bullets for big game for many years. 
Partly because they work so well, and partly because I don't think we sporstmen can wound game or leave gut piles full of lead for avian predators. Or for that matter, scatter hundreds of gravel sized lead particles over the ground for songbirds and game birds to pick up every time we shoot at something. Individually we all probably scatter tens of thousands of bits of potential gizzard death every season when we shoot lead. 
Sorry but that bothers me to the point where land I control only allows steel. If a guest shows up at my place with No Steel I'll give them steel and they use it or don't hunt. Only exception is an antique gun unsuitable for steel. It's surprising how many sportsmen do this too! 
Maybe I'll be labelled as a tree hugger?????maybe I should change my name to "Lead Free Habitat Hugger" or " Lead Hating Habitat Hugger."  But NOT leaving my lead out there for potential lead poisoning of unsuspecting bird makes sense to me. I want to kill a pheasant NOW, not 30-50 years in the future when my dog and I are in some happy hunting ground. Yeah I know, many will say what I am saying is BS and not proved, but IMHo after looking objectively at the big picture of lead and lead shot, it's faily clear that no lead is better. I know people always believe what they want to believe, me included, but I didn't want to believe haw bad lead could be and originally thought the negative things were overhyped, but I've changed my mind on the lead controversy. So be it.

Like Ron, to be clear, I don't support HSUS or PETA's agenda at all, and in a lot of cases I DO believe in the " slippery slope" theory and their ultimate agendas, but sometimes we hunters should SERIOUSLY look at environmental issues and not just follow our knee jerk response of NO, NO, NO even the rare time when some of the Humaniac Propoganda makes sense.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have no problem with non lead in my shotgun. I do have a problem with it in my 45/70, in my long range rifles, and in my large caliber handguns. I think it would wipe out the old 22 long rifle on public land.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Bruce I get what you are talking about, and that is why I am opposed to any new lead rules regarding rifle ammo as you point out. Target shooting of rifles does not and never will pose a threat. Hunting with lead has been proven to cause avian deaths. Not that I like it but facts are facts!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I use lead in my 45-70's and 50-70's and large handguns too. The amount of lead left laying around from those is not significant. Also use round lead balls in my muzzles, flintlocks. 
I can miss pheasants equally well with #3 steel as #4 lead!  My dog can attest to that! :lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ron Gilmore said:


> Bruce I get what you are talking about, and that is why I am opposed to any new lead rules regarding rifle ammo as you point out. Target shooting of rifles does not and never will pose a threat. Hunting with lead has been proven to cause avian deaths. Not that I like it but facts are facts!


Yes, many years ago I worked with a team X-raying about 20 ducks a night. Live captured birds. About 3% of the young had ingested shot before duck season. 30% of adults had body shot from previous years.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

My UP deer camp is backed up to about 6000 acres of federal land, been hunting there since 1992 and have never ever seen a ranger in the woods, on trails or roads. With all the so called budget cuts I just don't see them being able to enforce such a law except at the stores that sell ammo and reloading supply's shops.
If they can't sell it you can't buy it.

 Al


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

alleyyooper said:


> My UP deer camp is backed up to about 6000 acres of federal land, been hunting there since 1992 and have never ever seen a ranger in the woods, on trails or roads. With all the so called budget cuts I just don't see them being able to enforce such a law except at the stores that sell ammo and reloading supply's shops.
> If they can't sell it you can't buy it.
> 
> Al


I have a dozen bullet molds and a few hundred pounds of lead. I think my next purchase will be a few hundred more pounds of lead.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I have a what I feel is a life time supply of jacketed bullets. After that last primer shortage decided I wasn't going to run out of any thing again so stocked up. Wish I had did that with 22lr ammo, but how much did I shot up in a years time?

 Al


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