# Dog quits to soon on retrieve



## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

I seem to have a problem that I am sure someone can help me with. My lab has 4yrs of hunting under her belt and hunts good . the problem is that she gives up tp soon on a downed bird at times and wants to go back to hunting. How can I break he of this habit? Thanks


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## Ginger Quill (Jan 25, 2008)

TLR: I think you have to tell us a little more. What do you mean by giving up too soon? You know, some times you just have to let them hunt for the bird. Especially downed birds. Again, give us some more information to go on.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

If you could provide some more info that will help.

Background of the dogs training, Does the dog do this in a training situation or just when hunting? Do you use a helper when throwning marks?

Here are some thing that will help the dog reastablish a hunt after he/she leaves the area of the fall.

1. Have a helper throw marks and give the dog a " Hey/Hey" to get him back in the are and let him find his own birds "Builds confidence"

2. Have the thrower toss wing clips rather than dead birds or bumpers.

3. Salt the area of the fall with birds or bumpers, make sure the dog does not return without a bird or bumper.

4. You could do a dirt clod drill but the dog must handle and I would try to help the dog first and build his confidence and use this as a last resort.

5. For the most part it sounds like you need a helper throwing marks for you dog and don't give him the option of comming back or resuming his "HUNT' Without retrieving the bird thrown for him.

Give us somemore info.


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## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

It seems that she goes to the spot where the bird drops and she searches a short time then loses interest and starts to go back to looking for more birds. If I don't call her back she don't seem interested. She normally hunts close and listens very well. There are times that after calling her back a few times she has found the bird. I lost some that I didn't think we should have lost, but usally in heavy cover.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

tlr....

Stick around...I'm typing a reply...it will take a bit...

Mike


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Sounds like you need to teach her the "dead bird" command. Before I tell you how, I'd like to explain the "why." As you've discovered, times will arise in which you know there's a dead/crippled bird in a certain area or at least where it fell. Giving up on these birds is common for dogs not taught "dead bird." Now the how...

Quite simple actually. If you can, establish an area (preferably circular) in which the grass is higher than the surrounding cover. To begin, this area should be small...say 10'x10' (You'll increase the area size as the dog progresses). Walk with the dog into the cover and drop a tennis ball without the dog seeing you (I keep tennis balls in a zip lock bag with wings to retain scent). Walk the dog out of the area...heel him away for a bit...return upwind so the dog doesn't immediately scent the ball. Walk into the cover and give the command, "dead bird"...the dog may look at you like what the heck? Continue to give the command and act excited if need be. If the dog leaves the higher cover, call him back to you. In the event of a pup, you'd keep on a check cord. The key is to keep him in the area of the "fall." Eventually, the dog should circle downwind and wind the ball.

If too much time elapses and the dog becomes disinterested (as yours does) walk the dog (via heel or cord) downwind. Give the command again as you walk up to the ball. Again, the importance of the small area is to encourage success. You can even add more that one (salt the area).

Eventually, you'll need to increase the size of the area and cover. Additionally, the dog will become wise to the game, so you increase the difficulty...i.e. larger size area, different cover, planting the ball before you bring out pup, etc.

The underlying key here is to develop the trust factor with your dog. The more success pup finds when you tell him "dead bird," the more likely he is to remain in the area you tell him.

Again, if needed be sure to put the dog on check cord of use OB (if solid) to ensure the dog stays in the area you want.

I usually graduate from tennis balls to dead pigeons.

EDIT: Don't forget the praise if pup performs well (how did I forget that part?)

I hope this makes sense.

Good luck...

Mike


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

Good advice Mike


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## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks for the good advice. We hunt mainly pheasants amd she seems to have a pretty good nose. I will certainly work with her on this. If it weren't for hunting with a dog, I dont think I would hunt . I have a lb and like how close they work. We always seem to get some birds. I trained her myself and if a bird holds she will point {wait for me} until I get up to her before she flushes the 
bird. I hunt with a couple of setters that my boys have and she neverr flushes their birds . If I say ho she will not go until I release her Thanks.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

One possibility to consider in pheasant hunting versus other upland is how a down bird will often run. The hunter thinks the bird is at the fall site while the dog is trying to trail it to where the bird actually went. The way to tell is if the dog is birdy. Many times the hunter will recall the dog when it is doing what it is supposed to do, trailing. Sometimes for whatever reason the scent is lost at the fall site and the dog will began to cast in circles. It is easy to think the dog is on another bird but not the case. When in doubt trust the dog. Does that make sense?


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## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

Dick-I see what you mean. I guess I will have to probably give her more time on her own,but I will still work with her as suggested. The work will also give me more confidence in her and reinforce her searching additude.Thanks again


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

I would assume that the dog is not force broken?


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## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

You are right in that she was never force broke. Any thing I drop or throw she does retrieve though.


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## cancan (Feb 28, 2008)

trust that bird dog!

I have a buddy that always pulls his dog off trailing birds....when i get him to keep his mouth shut she finds her birds but he never seems to learn and goes right back to thinking he knows where birds are and nags at the dog....her high drive is the only thing keeps her from giving up on him.

Trust that bird dog!


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

OK, then you're going to have to make it more fun to find a dead bird than a live one. I basically do what Taddy and Browndog do. For you, just do what Taddy says now because you can't fall back on force training.

I would forget the tennis ball thing. The dog has four years of hunting under it's belt and is a *bird dog*. Take a large field and drop clip wing pigeons in it with their feet rubber banded. They can flop (fun for the dog) but not walk. You may start with one in a larger field. Go out, plant a pigeon, and mark a bush or piece of grass with a short, orange, ribbon. Wind should be blowing cross wind. Hunt the dog past the bird, and upwind of it. When the dog is away from you hunting, move to the area of the bird, downwind of it, and fire a gun. When the dog comes bouncing in, say "dead bird" and make sure the dog finds the clip wing. Good Dog it and throw the clippie a couple of times, letting the dog break and get it.

Now phase II. Once the dog is doing this and having fun, always being successful, make it harder. You'll do exactly the same thing but get further downwind of the bird and make it harder. If the dog doesn't find the bird, gives up, and leaves the area, walk closer to the bird, yell NO,DEAD BIRD and call her in to hunt the area. Move closer to the bird until she finds it then throw a couple of happy birds, praising her highly.
You'll be maybe 50 yards from the bird when you call her in so it won't be really tough for her to find it.

Phase III. She's doing this successfully and staying in the area. Now we'll set her up a little. Keep a bird in your pocket and send her out to hunt. Don't put a bird in the field. When she's away hunting, shoot the gun and when she comes in tell her dead bird and let her hunt. The bird's in your vest, she won't find it. Let her hunt until she leaves the area and say nothing. Now slip the bird out so she doesn't see you. When she's run over half the county and not found a bird, call her back saying HERE, DEAD BIRD, DEAD BIRD. When she comes in, be downwind of the bird so she finds it right away. This teaches her that she can't go anywhere until she finds a bird and that bird will always be in the vicinity of you.

If they're collar dog's, I tap them when they leave the area and command, NO, HERE, DEAD BIRD! But that's the easy way.

I'll bet she doesn't track either? That's the other thing. A lot of those birds may be runners and she's not getting them because they aren't there. Along with the hunting dead, you must teach her to track if she doesn't.


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## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

Gone hunting- I never did teach the dog to track. I thought that this was a natural instinct. I guess this shows how of a novice of a trainer Iam. Iguess I thought that when the dog was looking around that they would naturally trail. Any idea on how to teach her to trail? As an a old dog trying to teach a new dog new tricks I have a lot to learn. Please advise. thanks


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Start with a dead bird. Spray it with mist (water) and it will increase the scent trail. Put is on a 6' rope, tie that to a 6' stick, and drag the bird about 50' after leavein a small pile of feathers at the beginning of a trail. Start in cover not over 6" high. Show the dog the trail and walk it up the trail if you have to. Praise the dog when she finds the bird and retrieves it to you.

Gradually increase the difficulty of the trail, adding some turns and heavier cover.

When the dog has mastered this, go to pigeons. Clip the wing of a pigeon and put it on the ground. Take you stick and tap behind the bird to make it walk, you standing to one side. You can also put a harness on the bird, tie it to the stick, and kind of drag it. When you get out about 100', let the pigeon go on it's own. Take a break and about fifteen minutes later get the dog and turn her loose on the track.

The final step is to get a pheasant, pull the feathers on one wing, get the pup, and turn it loose on the trail. The pheasant will lead it on a merry chase. You don't have to wait 15 minutes for that, turn the dog loose within a few minutes of releasing the pheasant.

That's about it. Some dog's train themselves to track, some need a little help. I'm betting it makes a big difference in birds recovered.


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## tlr (Feb 20, 2008)

Thanks a alot for the information. I think that if I work on the tracking for her that this will help .In watching her I can see that tracking is 90% of the problem. The info you guys gave is easy to follow . Thanks again. You have to forgive my spelling and typing as it has been years since I have had to do either.


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