# Flushing Troubles



## ND_BisonHunter (Oct 19, 2008)

Having trouble getting my 2 year old lab to flush birds. He runs up to them, stands there and stares at them, once the bird flys and is shot he'll very enthusastically go pick it up and bring it back.

He's been professionally trained and FF'd. During training I do know that he killed many pidgeons. My concern is that the FF training may have taught him "not" to mess with the birds pre or post shot.

Any thoughts on what is going on/suggestions?


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## hammerhead (Dec 22, 2004)

Is you dog a pointing lab? Sounds to me that the force fetching is working like it is supposed to. Your dog is "fetching" the bird like it is supposed to. Some times if the dog holds the bird it works out better any way.


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## hammerhead (Dec 22, 2004)

One more thing if you have question about your dogs training you should talk to the trainer. He will probably have a better handle on whats going on. I call my dogs trainer every so often if I have questions.


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## Springer (Dec 21, 2004)

Are you using pen birds or out on wild birds?
I am sure a wild bird won't sit while he stares at them.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

I agree with springer.

My dog is the same way, until a bird is shot he usually doesn't try to "fetch" them. As long as they know they are looking for something when upland hunting and not running around aimlessly it shouldn't be a problem on wild birds.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

find a buddy to hunt with that has a dog with a strong flush and hunt them together ,competition drives dogs, big time


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

I really think the dog is pointing the birds. I'd enhance it, not worry about it.


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## Guest (Oct 21, 2008)

gonehuntin' said:


> I really think the dog is pointing the birds. I'd enhance it, not worry about it.


 :beer: I'm with thisgonehuntin guy! I have two labs from the same litter one does the pointing and the other likes to flush em. Just learn to read your dog and go with it. There are lots of guys that would love your dog for that reason alone.

enjoy.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

Or you can get a Field-Bred Springer, the ultimate flushing dog, and put your Lab on the bench. :wink: :beer:

More seriously (here goes......the onslaught of Lab Lovers attacking! :sniper: ), not all retrievers (any of the retriever breeds) work well as a flushing dog... Some do great, some are ok, and some should be left at home. A well-bred, well trained Springer from good Field Lines cannot be equalled when it comes to flushing and Pheasants are their specialty. We're talking percentage here......obviously there are Springers that are duds just as there are duds in every breed.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Sigh,

Stonebroke,

My lab is a flushing machine...but when she has a bird frozen right in front of her nose, say under a cattail mat or thick brush, she freezes and rolls her eyes back to me to let me know what is up. I just tell her to "get it" and she pounces making the flush. She rarely catches the bird.

In all other situations she flushes with every bit of the energy of a springer. She doesn't quarter like a robot unless I direct her with the whistle. She has a great nose and uses the wind to her advantage.

BisonHunter....sounds like you have a good thing going. Learn to read the dog and you will become a great team. That's all that you need to worry about. Enjoy!!

Canuck


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## ND_BisonHunter (Oct 19, 2008)

He definitely went on point yesterday, right down to standing on 3 legs......sigh.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Sorry, just don't buy that whole pointing lab thing. Pursued it for a while a few years ago and was interested in "having the best of both worlds" but now I have to wave the BS flag on the idea. uke:

Don't insult a true pointer by claiming your flusher points :lol: :eyeroll:


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Lvn,

You should learn to speak more openly and let your emotions out........

ha ha ha ha ha

Morning Lvn...


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Mornin' Rude > I thought I was kinda nice in that one - CRAP! must be cause it's a Monday morning. I'll try to remember to think before I speak next time.

Yeah, probably not :lol:


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Lvn, I think if you've hunted over a true blue pointing lab your opinions would change. There are some great dogs that I've bird hunted with that hold as true of a point as any english pointer or other pointing breed out there.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Chaws - maybe, but still don't much agree with it. Just don't see what's so good about hammering a square peg in to a round hole. If you want a pointing dog, get a pointing breed... just my :2cents:


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Nothing wrong with a lab that points. I think its cool, I wouldn't be upset at all. On another note, I dont see myself ever actively looking to buy a pointing lab but if they decide they want to point game, good for them.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> Sorry, just don't buy that whole pointing lab thing. Pursued it for a while a few years ago and was interested in "having the best of both worlds" but now I have to wave the BS flag on the idea. uke:
> 
> Don't insult a true pointer by claiming your flusher points :lol: :eyeroll:


It's obvious you have very little experience with the lab breed. Lab's have always pointed. Over 30 years ago I trained some lab's that pointed. At that time they were highly prized.

All they are doing now is trying to strengthen that gene and they're doing it quite well. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is there and there are a ton of pointing lab's out there now. What would possibly make you say it's B.S.?

To me, if you could get a pointing lab with style, which many do have, it would be and is, the ulitimate "Versatile Dog".


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

gonehuntin' said:


> Lvn2Hnt said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, just don't buy that whole pointing lab thing. Pursued it for a while a few years ago and was interested in "having the best of both worlds" but now I have to wave the BS flag on the idea. uke:
> ...


Great thing about the US, you have your opinion and I have mine.


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

I had a flushing/pointing lab once it was the greatest thing. A dog holding after the flush is actually the right thing for the dog to do. Two reasons, first is does not get in the way of a shot after the flush and second can actually mark a shot bird.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

deacon said:


> I had a flushing/pointing lab once it was the greatest thing. A dog holding after the flush is actually the right thing for the dog to do. Two reasons, first is does not get in the way of a shot after the flush and second can actually mark a shot bird.


Okay, this may show my total ignorance, but....my dogs are strictly flushers and they will still hold after the flush, what does that have to do with being a flushing/pointing lab?


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Now what this has turned into is a steady to wing dog. Dog maintains steadiness after bird is flushed, quite possibly not steady to shot but you get it.

A lab capable of pointing will do just that. They point and hold a point on game. Some people out there feel they have pointing labs, however they may actually just be standing the game because they rush in to flush the bird out without being released or another flushing dog comes in to flush the bird.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Chaws said:


> Now what this has turned into is a steady to wing dog. Dog maintains steadiness after bird is flushed, quite possibly not steady to shot but you get it.
> 
> A lab capable of pointing will do just that. They point and hold a point on game. Some people out there feel they have pointing labs, however they may actually just be standing the game because they rush in to flush the bird out without being released or another flushing dog comes in to flush the bird.


Chaws - that's where my issue with pointing labs comes in. Most guys that I have known that claim they have pointing labs there dogs are doing exactly what you are describing, they run up to a bird, get "stiff" and look at the bird and then flush it if it is holding that tight. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is NOT a true point.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

That is correct. The dog at that point and time is simply standing game. If taught, the dog could be whoa broke and then effectively become a true pointing dog.

Also keep in mind that not all flushes take place because of the dog. A lab could be a true pointing lab despite being whoa broke or not, some just have that naturally to hold point until released or the bird itself moves.

Lots of variables and I'm getting confused


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Also a dog pointing could have different variables depending on the conditions as well. A dog could possibly point this bird for 90 seconds but a big gust of wind comes along causing the bird to smell the dog or vice versa causing a flush. blah blah blah.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> that's where my issue with pointing labs comes in. Most guys that I have known that claim they have pointing labs there dogs are doing exactly what you are describing, they run up to a bird, get "stiff" and look at the bird and then flush it if it is holding that tight. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is NOT a true point.


Even a pointer needs training. It's called staunchness. Think of it like this. A retriever, even though it retrieves, is force broken to make a reliable retriever out of it.

Even though a pointer points, they are they steadied to point, flush, shot, and fall just to finish the dog. Virtually every pointing dog will point, then as you approach, they'll jump in and flush if not taught to hold steady. A pointing lab is the same. They point instinctively, they learn steadingess through training.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

gonehuntin' said:


> Lvn2Hnt said:
> 
> 
> > that's where my issue with pointing labs comes in. Most guys that I have known that claim they have pointing labs there dogs are doing exactly what you are describing, they run up to a bird, get "stiff" and look at the bird and then flush it if it is holding that tight. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is NOT a true point.
> ...


Nice follow up there.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

My head hurts!


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

gonehuntin' said:


> Lvn2Hnt said:
> 
> 
> > that's where my issue with pointing labs comes in. Most guys that I have known that claim they have pointing labs there dogs are doing exactly what you are describing, they run up to a bird, get "stiff" and look at the bird and then flush it if it is holding that tight. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is NOT a true point.
> ...


Agreed. Very good point. So, let me retract and revise my previous opinions...I, personally would never actively pursue a "pointing lab". Those that feel they have a flushing or pointing lab need to put the necessary training in to make it be the best dog it can be. That said, just because a dog gets "staunch" does not make it a pointer.

Do I have it more correct this time?


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> Agreed. Very good point. So, let me retract and revise my previous opinions...I, personally would never actively pursue a "pointing lab". Those that feel they have a flushing or pointing lab need to put the necessary training in to make it be the best dog it can be. That said, just because a dog gets "staunch" does not make it a pointer.
> 
> Do I have it more correct this time?


That is an excellent summary and I feel exactly the same way.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

My dogs point rock steady and I never had to teach them to, and they didn't need to be trained not to jump in and flush. Most well bred pointers will be pointing steady by 6 months or less with no training, if they have bird contacts.

ANd you never "whoa a dog to a point", pointing is an instinctive part of the stalk that young pointers just do, its genetic. WHen your dogs goes on point your mouth should stay shut.

The only thing that teaches my dogs to point is birds flushing if they crowd them, I never ever say a word to them in that situation. My dogs are often 4-500 yards away kinda tough to "whoa" them. :lol:

Now let me be clear I don't have a thing in the world against pointing labs but if you have to teach a dog to point its not pointing its standing game and there is a difference. I have had a couple labs that actaully pointed and they were both in the late 60s and early 70's like GH said the thing is not new.

IMO the whoa command is useful and used for two things, teaching backing and keeping your dog from getting in a dangerous situation, snakes, skunks or the road. It has no place in the bird pointing sequence.

I usaully wait until the dog is two to three to teach whoa depending on how bold they are always atleast after their first good hunting season.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Guess I learn something new every day, thanks Bob.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I learn something new here everyday also, I love that.


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