# Debating a pointer as a first dog



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Hey guys,

I need a little advice: I'm thinking about getting my first hunting dog, and I've REALLY liked what I've read about French Brittanies. However, I'm a little apprehensive because all the guys with whom I hunt have flushing dogs (the guys I hunt with most have English Springers... the others are all labs). Being a new owner I want to get a pup that will be easy to train, and I worry that the other dogs will be a "bad"-enough influence to where there's more of a challenge on me than I can handle.

I've read that you shouldn't hunt your new pointer with flushing dogs for quite a while, but if I'm not that confident in my training skills. Could I really _ever_ integrate my pointer in with flushers?

I really like the idea of a pointer, especially a well-rounded one like a French Brittany, but, since nobody else in my hunting group has one, can I (a novice) ever bring him along with flushing dogs without teaching him bad habits?

I don't mind leaving my pup out of the mix for a while (the other pups could use a break sometimes), but at some point I'd like to have my dog out with the rest of 'em.

What do you guys think?


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

My buddy has a Fr Brit. We all have flushers. He just hunts off to the side during pushes or takes off on his own if the property is big enough.

He doesn't hang out here but is on Uplandjournal.com You could shoot him a PM there. His name is Brad Adrian.

He got his dog from Plum Creek in SD. THe owner is Bill Dillon. You could check out his website and shoot him an email. I know he likes to talk dogs.

Brian


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

It can be done but its not a good idea the flushers will blow by your dog and eventually your dog will be breaking point and flushing.

If your going to hunt with those guys you would be better off with the same type of dog. And that is definitely not the situation to train a young pointing dog in.

French brits are good dogs


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

Depends on how well trained the flushers are too. Our dogs will sit on the whistle and haven't blown past a point by the Fr Brit. We are aware of what his dog is supposed to do and what we need to do. Keep our dogs in our area and out of his. But that is what we do anyway. I don't want my dog hunting two hunters down anyway.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

I think I can avoid going out with them while my dog's still new, but I don't want to avoid it forever.

Their dogs aren't particularly well-trained, and they get pretty far out at times. Much of our hunting is trying to cover as much of a quarter of CRP as we can with 3-5 guys and 2-4 dogs, or spreading out and covering small sloughs in a harvested field. In the CRP, I can get myself quite a bit of elbow room, but in the fields there would be times when there aren't enough sloughs to go around (though, not all of the dogs have to come out on every pass... they could all use a break from time to time).

Most of the time we can spread out to the point where the dogs (ideally) wouldn't be that close to each other. Is it realistic to hunt my dog (probably in his second season) in that scenario?

Is breaking point a habit that needs to be avoided, or is it a situational thing? If my dog points when there are only non-flushers around but flushes a few when there are flushers around, I can live with that.

I haven't been overly impressed with most of their dogs. I know a lot of it's in the training, but I don't know if I could do much better than them. I guess that's why I had a pointer in mind... Flushing birds out of range is my pet peeve. I want a hunting buddy who'll check back to see where I am most of the time.

Or are my expectations unrealistic?


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Bobm said:


> It can be done but its not a good idea the flushers will blow by your dog and eventually your dog will be breaking point and flushing.
> 
> If your going to hunt with those guys you would be better off with the same type of dog. And that is definitely not the situation to train a young pointing dog in.
> 
> French brits are good dogs


What Bob said is true, I have a Springer and a Setter. Last year the Setter would let the Springer go in and flush but she won't this year. What works is to heel or make the Springer sit when the Setter goes on point if you can get to her first, although I think she knows to go look when the Setter goes on point.

I'm finding it's also too hard to keep track of two dogs when one is close and the other is 75-100 yards away.


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

I have the best of both worlds. I have a chocolate pointing lab. Best decision i have ever make. Yes she points and points well. I have the versatility of a lab, the trainability of a lab and a real family dog and a hunting machine


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Bad idea unless you plan to hunt alone without your friends. In all reality, this idea will NEVER work out. Pointers are pointers and flushers are flushers and unless the flushers are worked from heel, never the two shall meet.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

agreed,

it will be a constant source of conflict, frustration and you will end up with a flushing brit. Either hunt alone or buy a good springer and go with the flow with your buddies.

Buy a trained springer there is no more effective pheasant dog, you dont like your friends dogs because they are out of control and not trained.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Thanks guys! I appreciate the input a lot. I think I need to go back to the drawing-board. I need to just need to get a flusher of some sort and make sure I work with my dog a little more than they have. I'll just have to find some good instructional materials.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

Omegax, you might consider an English Cocker. In my vast experience of 2 (grin) they have been very easy to train and hunt close. They are a smaller dog, average 25-35#. Something to consider.

With any flushing dog your main challenge is going to be running birds. When they (any flushing breed) get on a HOT scent it is their nature to get on it and flush the bird. Takes lots of time and patients to be able to call your dog off of a hot scent, regardless of breed. I like the whistle better than voice commands, it seems to disturb the birds less, although the dog needs to know and obey both the whistle and your voice.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

english cocker :beer: thats a great idea.


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## swope (Nov 22, 2006)

I own a Vizsla and all my friends that own dogs own flushers. It is a constant source of conflict, and I don't suggest it unless you like to take off on your own. My next dog is also going to be a pointing dog, but I have an extreme bias towards their hunting style.

If you don't have that bias and like hunting behind flushers, you should get one, and that way you'll be able to hunt with your friends more and have witnesses when your dog does something incredible or retarded.

As for training, well, I've never trained a flusher, but it sure seems like a pointing dog is harder to make into a functional hunter. I've done it, despite my shortcomings as a trainer, but I think that luck had as much to do with it as skill (and lots and lots of wild birds!).


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## mburgess (Aug 11, 2003)

I've hunted my Brit with a lab on multiple occasions which turned out to be fine. I was worried that the labs would cause my dog to bust birds, but it never happened. My brit ranged out so much farther and covered so much more land that the labs were rarely near him. A french brit doesn't range out that much from what I've read about them. I've never hunted behind a french brit though. I wouldn't recommend hunting a pointer with a flusher if you don't have to, especially a well bred springer as some of them have as good of wheels as the pointing breeds.


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## Shorthair.On.Point (Nov 28, 2006)

Its not a good idea to mix flushers with pointers. I solved the problem by getting one of each but I prefer hunting with the German Shorthair. In my opinion better nose than a lab. Still retrieves. Big enough to get through the cattails too. Can hunt all day every day. Easy to train. Great as pets. Covers more ground than a flusher because when they find a hot scent they don't bump the bird so you have time to get in range to shoot. With a flusher you tend to get longer shots and have to try and keep up with the dog if it is chasing a bird. I would say go with a German Shorthair and before long all your friends will want one too.  [/img]


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## Shorthair.On.Point (Nov 28, 2006)




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