# 8 gauge shotgun



## Gooser1

hey i was wondering if anybody knows of a picture of an 8 gauge shotgun on the internet. thanks


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## nodakoutdoors.com

I had to dig pretty deep to find one. I'm surprised there isn't more???

Here's a variety of photos for the shotgun style, not the one that's mounted like a cannon.

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/as18.htm


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## Gooser1

thanks alot man


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## nodakoutdoors.com

Kind of an old topic being brought up, but does anyone know of anyone who still owns an 8 gauge shotgun?


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## goosegrinder

The lady who owns the farm where I hunt had one for years. Single shot. She ended up selling it at an auction that she had. I wish I would have known she was selling the guns,it would have been over my fireplace. 

Alex


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## Horsager

I know a guy who owns one. It's a deluxe model LC Smith from the '20's. It's value is $15,000+.


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## headshot

Here is a 4 bore compared to a 10 gauge.


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## mallard

JHegg owns one.


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## Eightbore

Still a lot in use over here, mainly used for goose shooting. Harder these days though as you have to use non-toxic, with Tungsten that means about $8 a shot but what the heck it is still good fun.


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## jkern

OUCH!!

What fun...Pick your arm up off the ground after every shot. :lol:


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## mallardrocker

8 dollars a shot.... are you for real


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## Eightbore

If it bother you that much, just think what it costs for a shot with a 1 1/2" punt gun.

If you need to work it out that is Powder + Shot + Wadding, etc.; so just for the hell of it lets ignore the cost of the wadding and caps etc. just think of the shot at £1 per once and you get 4 loads from a pound of powder.

Just for the record lets call that a total of $50 (minimum) now that is what I call Ouch but if you enjoy it do it cause you can't take it with you :eyeroll:


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## jaydogg

can i ask a question? what in the he** would you need an 8ga for?


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## Eightbore

jaydogg said:


> can i ask a question? what in the he** would you need an 8ga for?


It's a two part answer to this.
Firstly, and this is the main reason for me is for wildfowling, because of the range and the pattern is far superior to any 12 or 10 bore load you can think of (we all know the benefits of bigger barrel diameters verses the same load of shot)
Secondly, some of it has to be nostalgia and the respect for these types of guns.
Guess there is a third one too, "we still can" so lets keep it. Even over here it is now classed as an obsolete "gauge" size.


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## meltyblood

Tungsten is carcinogenic. Not as bad as lead but a lot worse than steel.


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## universitywaterfowler

If i was ever out hunting and saw a guy shooting geese at long ranges with an 8 gauge i would break his legs. You wanna sky bust on snows be my guest but seriously don't pull that bs on my canadas or ducks. might as well shoot them when they are roosting on the water. un ethical and completely un necessary from where i stand. I hate when I put in my time and money getting the right spot and gear just to have some fool sit 150 yds away and shoot at birds that are flying 80yds plus over them to get to me. Thats total bs and i would rather they just come over and ask to hunt with me, I would be more than happy to show them how to hunt.
Not saying you want it to sky bust like that but if you do don't let me catch you. :******:


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## nodakoutdoors.com

universitywaterfowler said:


> If i was ever out hunting and saw a guy shooting geese at long ranges with an 8 gauge i would break his legs.


Spoken like a true die hard. :lol: 8)


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## universitywaterfowler

didn't mean to be an arss


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## headshot

> If i was ever out hunting and saw a guy shooting geese at long ranges with an 8 gauge i would break his legs.


Just shoot back. :lol: lol My grandpa told me stories about how they would go shoot sea ducks with huge shotguns and punt guns in the 20s. He said his brother and him could shoot 50-60 birds in 1 shot consitantly. They were doing it for food and feathers. Back then when you rowed a boat in the atlantic during Nov. to shoot ducks you made every shot count, this is the niche that the 8 gauge, fourbore and punt gun filled nicely. Nowadays we are doing it for sport not sustanince(sp) so we are a lot more ethical and sporting. I enjoy shooting birds but I get off on fooling them into landing in the spread. My grandpa would roll in his grave if he knew how much money I had tied up into goose hunting. :roll:


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## R y a n

meltyblood said:


> Tungsten is carcinogenic. Not as bad as lead but a lot worse than steel.


Your first and only post and this is your reply? What in the world brought you here... and what in the world were you searching for to then feel the need to reply to this old thread with that response?

just curious...

Ryan


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## Pluckem

universitywaterfowler said:


> You wanna sky bust on snows be my guest but seriously don't pull that bs on my canadas or ducks.
> Thats total bs and i would rather they just come over and ask to hunt with me, I would be more than happy to show them how to hunt.
> Not saying you want it to sky bust like that but if you do don't let me catch you. :ticked:


Spoken like a true idiot. :roll:


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## jhegg

Pluckem,

I couldn't agree with you more!

Jim


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## Plainsman

> on my canadas and ducks


Yours???????? All those feathered little critters belong to you personally???? Well I'll be. You must be an outfitter. 

I'm not that much of a shotgun hunter, but do many of the old 8 gauges shoot smokeless powder? Even those that shoot smokeless do they have more range than a ten gauge? I would think that you are limited the velocity you can achieve in any other shotgun. The only difference would be the larger bore giving you a shorter shot string with the same weight load. I may be wrong, I don't claim to be a shotgun expert. As a matter of fact I am a novice at shotgun, but the statement that it is unethical because you can shoot further sounds like someone can throw bs further.


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## Eightbore

Nice to see some replies to a good topic, just a shame about the content of some of them.
Mr. universitywaterfowler;
My Canada's and My Duck ... Breaking legs as well.. :eyeroll: ..Oh la la .
BTW. I have just read my post again and I am damned if I can find the 80 yards bit or was that something you just made up? Also hunting is something done with a rifle or from the back of a horse, I would much rather go wildfowling. I wonder if you have ever actually shot geese on a marsh and not just tame Canada's, oh well let's move on and not get into a bum kicking contest.

There is something very special about shooting the large bore guns, to my understanding there are no manufactures producing 8 or 4 bore cartridges commercially (yes I do know about kiln loads) so the only way is to load your own. So that means either black powder or Nitro loads. Many wildfowlers still use the old damascus barrels so unless they have been reproofed they are limited to BP only, although many have had them Nitro Proofed. Trust me a very exspencive hobby at circa £5 ($10) a cartridge at todays prices, so no sky bursts (think that was the term used) or wanten waste. Some times you can lay in the freezing mud for the whole flight and never get a shot. On a really good day I might get 5 shots. I am talking about shooting on the marsh, not decoying them inland "sat" in a nice hide with all the comforts of home and a guide to hold your hand in case you get lost 8) .

Now let's see if that brings forth some useful posts


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## universitywaterfowler

Theres a reason I said some guy, and a reason for my last line. I didn't mean you were going to in particular. Look at the post after mine... Managed to call 63 geese into a construction pond last night, about 230 ducks that roost in it too. Was very fun. Going out tonight and going to video.


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## HATCHETMAN

University.... Why you gotta jack Eightbore's reply with your shenanigans?? He (and two others) politely tried to tell you that they didn't appreciate your banter, and instead of an apology he gets uke: d on by your calling and video skills??? Come on man, give the guy some respect & a warm welcome...he's trying to educate other shooters & hunters about what it's like to shoot and hunt with the 8 ga.

:******:


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## universitywaterfowler

My First line again??? wasn't an apology, was more like saying i never accused him of anything just saying people who sky bust have no place in hunting. Again I didn't say he was, just stating the fact that its bs when some of us work so hard to get a spot, buy good decoys and some guy sits just outta your gun range and sky busts your birds. Not saying he does.
SHOULD I REPEAT MYSELF SOME MORE??
That was just a little side story, I was kinda happy i found some birds that were flying, thought this was a goose hunting forum for a second...


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## Plainsman

> SHOULD I REPEAT MYSELF SOME MORE??


No that's quite alright. I have heard all I want to. I might suggest that good manners (sugar) will catch you more (respect) than vinegar.

Also, don't be hypocritical. At least not so obvious, and in the same sentence.



> You wanna sky bust on snows be my guest but seriously don't pull that bs on my canadas or ducks.


 :eyeroll:

Oh, by the way welcome eightbore.


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## universitywaterfowler

I don't sky bust therefore not hypocritical. Don't hunt snows therefore you or anyone else want to sky bust them hey thats someone else's problem.


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## kaiserduckhelm

universitywaterfowler said:


> Don't hunt snows therefore you or anyone else want to sky bust them hey thats someone else's problem.


 :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Plainsman

> If i was ever out hunting and saw a guy shooting geese at long ranges with an 8 gauge i would break his legs.


Great, then you can tell your prison cell honey about all your experiences.



> Not saying you want it to sky bust like that but if you do don't let me catch you.


I think you will have to hunt the United Kingdom to give eighbore a problem.

Universitywildman since you're a little to thick and don't take hints or good advise well let me get a little jump on everyone else by a waterfowl season or two.
Condolences to widow universitywildman.

In other words if your even half serious about your childish threats your going to get yourself hurt, and that skybuster is going to walk free because it will be self defense. Just the kind of crap the anti firearms people like to read. Your original post was just wrong in so many ways.


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## headshot

I just love the fact that I shoot HIS birds all season. I sure hope I get universitywaterfowlers permission again this year. Actually I will take you up on the leg breaking. Come to Sask and make my day, I dare you. :******: Try thinking before engaging your tongue. Thanks for the info on the large guns Eightbore and dont let some holier than thou univeristy punk turn you off from the forum.


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## Horsager

Headshot, you just might have the finest signature line on the board!!


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## headshot

> Headshot, you just might have the finest signature line on the board!!


Thanks, I will need to update it soon. Only 3 weeks till season 17 starts for me. :beer:


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## SASKATOONGOOSEHUNTER

I click on a thread that I think will be quite interesting, the weapons and hunting methods of the past are always facinating, and it promptly goes in the sewer. What a shame. :eyeroll:

Good replies by Plainsman though.


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## Eightbore

Well lets get back to basics, below are some pictures (I hope) of some eight and four bore cartridges. I know sad .......but I also collect old cartridges.

I hope that worked.

BTW If you lot want to talk to an American that knows 8 bores try Tom Armbrust, he knows what he is on about from what I have seen 8)


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## 4CurlRedleg

universitywaterfowler said:


> didn't mean to be an arss


Did you miss this plainsman? :-?

Insensitive, degrading every post and poster you don't like? Didn't seem like the webmaster had a problem with it. :roll:


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## headshot

Thats a nice collection eightbore. Have you ever shot any of those full brass shells :lol:


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## Eightbore

headshot said:


> Thats a nice collection eightbore. Have you ever shot any of those full brass shells :lol:


Yes I have but a long time ago, the last few I have are in the collection now. What I shoot are the same (almost) but I make them comeplete. I don't just mean reload them but machine the cartridges cases too. See photo.


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## Plainsman

Eightbore I have never been interested in shotgun hunting much. Although back in the early 1980's I had a muzzle loading 12 gauge that would except light eight gauge loads. I loaded 80 gr of black powder and 2 ½ ounces of shot. It was straight cylinder bore so you either had to limit your shots to 15 yards, or add a lot of shot to have a decent pattern to 30 yards. I didn't have a chronograph in those days, but I would guess that velocity was very low.
Do you know what kind of velocity your getting out of your loads? Also, what range are you limited to? I would guess you still do not shoot much beyond 40 yards. 
You should get in touch with jhegg ,you may be able to make some trades with him. I had not seen him for 30 years and was at his house for some wonderful food last night. It was also enjoyable to see his eight gauge shell collection. 
Every once in a while we get someone on here that has hunting experiences vastly different than ours. We had a fellow on for a while from Australia, and it was interesting hearing about hunting in that area. When I returned last night I was pleased to see you were still posting. Most of us are friendly, so please don't let anyone run you off. Looking forward to more of your posts.


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## headshot

Have you ever tried the all brass shell in a 12 gauge. I have heard you can turn them from 50BMG cases. Can you load shot in that style of shell.


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## Eightbore

Plainsman said:


> Eightbore I have never been interested in shotgun hunting much. Although back in the early 1980's I had a muzzle loading 12 gauge that would except light eight gauge loads. I loaded 80 gr of black powder and 2 ½ ounces of shot. It was straight cylinder bore so you either had to limit your shots to 15 yards, or add a lot of shot to have a decent pattern to 30 yards. I didn't have a chronograph in those days, but I would guess that velocity was very low.
> Do you know what kind of velocity your getting out of your loads? Also, what range are you limited to? I would guess you still do not shoot much beyond 40 yards.
> You should get in touch with jhegg ,you may be able to make some trades with him. I had not seen him for 30 years and was at his house for some wonderful food last night. It was also enjoyable to see his eight gauge shell collection.
> Every once in a while we get someone on here that has hunting experiences vastly different than ours. We had a fellow on for a while from Australia, and it was interesting hearing about hunting in that area. When I returned last night I was pleased to see you were still posting. Most of us are friendly, so please don't let anyone run you off. Looking forward to more of your posts.


btw, my guess is you were blowing the pattern open, with 2 1/2oz in an 8 bore you would do much better than that even with true cylinder you should get 30 yards or more with a decent pattern, imho.

Most of my shooting is on the foreshore (coastal marshes) so it is all in the winter (of course) and wet windy and cold most of the time. I think I have done it all over the years and really do feel sorry for the youngsters of today, as just about every thing is getting banned these days. S**t and they call this progress "bahh". From mud crawling to grave digging. Those sort of methods I would not do any more and am glad for that but I had my time to try them.

As to the cartridges I posted a quick run through;

The 8 bores range from the straw coloured (top left) to the Green gastight, these are all 3 1/4" cartridges (sorry just can not bring myself to call them shells "yuck") which is classed as the standard. Odd when you think of it that the smallest cartridge is the standard, The next is a 3 1/2" brass ejector quite rare by all counts. Bottom row far left, 3 3/4" Gastight, then a 4" French, and last but not least 3 loaded 4 1/4" and one NPE 4 1/4". I have others but that photo just happened to be handy when I was posting.

Hmm, lot to answer here and I am not the fastest of typist's either 8) ,

So, Range first (very conjective as we all estimate things better or worse than others) but based on English shot sizes and lead. Then 55 yards as a limit but I know people that will kill all the time at 60, this is based using No 1's or BB. Problem is BB starts to get too thin on the ground at 55 yards with a standard load. However if I am using the magnum then it will hold good to 60 yards for patern density with 3 1/2 oz of shot.
Tried some Bismuth last coupls of years and that stuff sucks big time, at 40 yards does not kill consistantly so stoped shooting with it. Wounding birds is not good news, just gives us (shooters) a bad name and nobody wants that. Plus all I shoot I aim to eat so I like to put things in the freezer. Just changed to tungsten so not much experiance with that yet. However the few I did use last year I killed with almost every shot so feel more happier about it.

Velocity; using 52 to 54 grians and 2 1/2 oz, a friend had some put through the proof house and they went about 1050 plus so certainly not too bad. I will know better at the end of this season.

As to being run off ............. no problem there, everybody is entitled to thier opion, just some put it over better than others.  and thanks for the welcome btw.


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## Plainsman

4Curl, I know you think the Canada goose form is your domain and you feel that I not being much of a goose hunter am trespassing. It appears you have had your hackles up since our last encounter on the Canada goose form.
Universitywaterfowler, rest assured I do not dislike you. I did dislike the post. To often we have people who let their passion cloud their judgment. One fellow makes a claim, another calls bs. That may be my biggest pet peeve. My problem is a new fellow comes on with interesting information and what happens?
He shoots and eight gauge, you will break the legs of anyone sky busting with an eight gauge. The inference was there.
I'll try be less sarcastic in the future and get to the point. However keep in mind that if anyone insinuates someone is a liar, or start any other personal attacks I might embarrass you. Be respectable, and there is no problem. Often a new fellow comes on and with his first post he is put upon. Let's give people a chance. Good manners cost us nothing.


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## huntingdude16

I think a closer look at uni's post needs to be made.

He said:


> You wanna sky bust on snows be my guest but seriously don't pull that bs on my canadas or ducks. I hate when I put in my time and money getting the right spot and gear just to have some fool sit 150 yds away and shoot at birds that are flying 80yds plus over them to get to me.


I think what he meant to say as far as 'his' ducks and geese are the ones he's worked hard to try and get to decoy, and when they do come around there is a guy, as he says, 150 yards away presumably at the edge of the field sky busting em, so his hard work is being ruined by some prick. I don't know about anyone else, but I would understand his frustration here.

Anyway, eightbore, how bad does the 8 gauge actually kick? Compared to 10 gauge? What would you say the effective range is?


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## Eightbore

huntingdude16 said:


> Anyway, eightbore, how bad does the 8 gauge actually kick? Compared to 10 gauge? What would you say the effective range is?


I guess this is all "bs" anyway as you poor slobs can't use 8 bores on wildfowl anyway, which brings us back full circle, some what academic is all of this :roll: .

Compared to a 10 bore magnum it's a big softy, the weight of the gun absorbs all the kick but pull both triggers on the 4 1/4" magnum when you are not ready for it and it will sit you on your arss pretty smart, or don't do what I did early this year, shoot across your body when you have a wet barbour on. The gun slid nicely down my arm and I had bruises for nearly three weeks. (Got the pictures to prove it too) Try a 1200 grain solid and then you will know what one can kick like.


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## HATCHETMAN

Eightbore.....I think you'll love the tungsten in your weapon...I know it makes all the difference in the 12 ga even at close ranges...It really passes on the energy, and patterns very evenly through even open chokes.

I assume you're currently using steel shot?? I never had decent luck with bismuth in reloading either....just didn't perform like lead used to, and not even close to tungsten shot in killing power. Please let us know how you like the tungsten stuff through your experimentation!! I appreciate all the great info!

HM


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## Plainsman

huntingdude16

I often say I don't like to assume, but in this case lets assume your right. It would make me feel a lot better. I would rather feel like a jack a$$ and feel better about University. Thanks for your view. 
As I pointed out though our university friend will not see that happen in the United States.
Anyway, the thread looks back on track and that's great. 
Hatchetman, your experience with tungsten is interesting. It puts a ballistic aspect to it which I really find interesting. I have seen large size tungsten shot against 1/4 steel plate and it penetrated. I looked at those plates in the sport shop and thought it might be a hoax. What do you think?


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## universitywaterfowler

By the way I am not taking anything away from the 8 gauge, it is a great historical weapon. My complaint was legitimate, ask anyone who has had problems with a holes that just go out hunting to blast away at anything and everything. Chris understood me just fine and for the two or three of you that can't seem to get what I am saying or are just to ignorant to want to. Keep replying your psing everyone off. Must say I am impressed with the pics, keep them coming. Interesting to see old guns and cartridges. 
THANKS TO ALL THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND WHERE I AM COMING FROM AND HAVE DEFENDED ME. MOVED TO NODAK THIS WEEKEND SO I WASN'T ON.


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## HATCHETMAN

Sorry there university, but I guess I'm gonna have to "keep psing everyone off". Let's get something crystal clear here buddy....Your comment may have had some legitimate purpose, but I didn't feel that it was constructive to "fly into a rant" and go on about busting someone's legs for skybusting when there seemed to be no real need for it. Can you understand where I'm coming from?? Maybe you had someone else in mind, maybe you mis-worded your statement....who knows. Hey, everyone has opinions, but your paragraph just looked like it belonged in a "I hate skybusters thread" instead of a discussion about historical firearms. (This is just an observation of course, and hopefully a defensible one at that) I want everyone here to know that my reply here makes me NO BETTER than you, but atleast maybe you will get the benefit of understanding "our" viewpoint too. SORRY 8BORE! 
:huh:

Anyway.... Plainsman, I personally called a group of 6 lesser geese into the decoys one day, and all but one died immediately....it had both legs broken and was flying rather erratic as crippled geese can. One guy in the blind fumbled around and popped a hevi-shot #2 homeload (1 3/8 oz 1380 fps through a mod choke) in the top barrel of his over under and fired at the goose which was now approaching what I guessed was the 70 yard mark, and he fired. Now before you guys get on the "skybusting" train here....this was a goose that would have flown a mile with two broken legs and crashed in a field, and devoured alive by a coyote; so this guy owed it to the critter to try and kill him. So to my surprise the goose came to rest on the opposite shoreline after sliding a few yards on the ice. It is 93 yards from bank to bank on that pond, and with my leica 800 rangefinder I had a buddy stand where the blood stain was on the ice where he first hit..that measurement was 84 yards. This bird was shot in the back / butt going straight away, and was hit with 5 hevi-shot pellets at that yardage...one in the wingtip, one grazed the breast, and 3 went in the back / butt and EXITED through the breast meat out the front. It poked neat little holes in the backbone and left a nice wound channel all the way through....I would have never believed it had I not witnessed it myself. As hard and dense as hevi-shot is, and if it were moving fast enough I would have zero doubt about it penetrating very thick steel. Speaking from personal experience & testing hevi-shot B's they penetrate junk car doors, dishwasher doors, and washing machine lids, etc. From "scary" distances. Of course the only thing more scary than the performance is the price :roll:

Anyway for greater geese it's great stuff for penetrating the tough feathers, skin, and greasy meat, and puttin' em to sleep for good, this is why I thought eightbore would enjoy using it. If one were to kill one goose with every shot instead of taking multiple shots with the other stuff...it's not too bad, and at the very least entertaining!!
:beer: HM


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## Eightbore

The main problem with these modern shot's is that they do not suit the materials that the older guns were made of and have to be supported / insulated from touching the barrel walls. Now I hate using plastic of any form in my cartridges that means fibre wads and cardboard cups are the order of the day, hey who wants to go littering up the country side with plastic?? and my pet hate is people that can't be bothered to pick up thier empties grrrr.

Don't think I will be trying Hevi-shot, as I have seen what it can do to a shot gun barrel, pretty impresive too but no recommended. As all of my guns have full choke and one has super full which amounts to some 0.058" of choke. With lead BB (British size again) in that one, at 50 yards standard load 2 1/2 oz that means about 80 to 97 hits on the end of a 50 gallon oil drum from a shot count of circa 170 to 174 per loading if memory serves me right, even a "bad" pattern will yield some 50 plus. On a side note makes me wish I had writen all this sort of stuff down as my memory is not what it was :eyeroll: yeah I know old age before anybody tells me why  It also patterns well through sizes 1, 3 and 4 but 5 and 6 can get a bit patchy. Mind you these were in the days of just fibre wads I have not tried with the cardboard cups which should make an improvement. these loadings were with the old Nobels 64 powder no longer available and I have just one drum of it left  Which I will never use.
That gun is the best patterning gun I have ever owned and I still have it. Over here 8 bores, 4 bores etc. are classed as obsolete calibers but if you have the gun AND cartridge then you have to have it on your ticket.
As to cartridges, the Eley straw/yellow one in the pictures is the last of the "cardboard" cartridges made I think that they stopped manufacture in the mid 70's no more were made until about 5 years ago when there was a small batch of Bismuth "spit" run off and that is about it that I know of. * If anybody knows of another company making them (not home loaders) I would like to know*


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## universitywaterfowler

I don't consider shooting at geese you've already decoyed sky busting, shooting a wounded bird, or even poping off a last shot at the birds leaving after you shot them up is hunting. 
This was a topic about wanting an 8 bore, and the reason i said something about sky busting is because what else would you use and 8 bore for nowadays. I get the historical aspect, and that it would be fun to shoot, however if someone wants one so that they can head out to a field and shoot geese and ducks at 100 yards, or swat massive bunches on the ground then i don't believe there is room for something like that on here. Wouldn't you agree??? Is it really ethical for someone to take an 8 bore and just swat their limit of birds, probably plus more... on the ground? Maybe i came off wrong however, I don't believe anyone wants this... and like i said i don't know if he is doing this so I am not saying this at him just stating.


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## Horsager

I don't understand the question often asked about shotguns and guage, that question being "What's the effective range of X guage?"

A BB sized pellet with a muzzle velocity of say 1400fps doesn't know if it's been shot from a 20ga or 10ga, and it's just as lethal out of either one. Now I understand the idea of denser patterns as you get larger bores, but how would that increase effective range? The pellets carry the same amount of energy regardless of guage.

Most targets (clays or live birds) missed with a shotgun are missed behind, and it doesn't matter how large your bore diameter is, if you shoot behind the bird you won't get it.

Here is my suggestion regarding "effective range" and how you might gain an advantage or increase your own effective range. Take all the money you've been saving for that set of $90/ea extended choke tubes and instead of buying them, head over to a sporting clays/skeet/trap course that has an instructor and buy a lesson or 5. Becoming a better overall shotgunner will do you vastly more good than the best equipment money can buy.

Those folks who are avid shotgun shooters, regardless of their skill level do not often or sometimes ever seek what would really improve their shotgunning abilities. For those of you who think this is a bunch of crap, remember the most avid competition shotgunners have shooting coaches that they work with tirelessly, and they shoot all the time. The avid "average" shotgunner shoots a league or maybe two and 3-5 weekend shoots in the summer with narry a bit of instruction save maybe their teammates.

BB's (or any other size shot) at a given velocity doesn't know or care what ga it what shot from, becoming a better shotgunner is the easiest and most effective way to increase your maximum effective range. Experience will trump equipment *EVERY *time.


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## Eightbore

A little extract from an American friend of mine.

I quote;
Ive noticed over the years a lot of USA hunters don't know much about 8 ga guns, a lot think they are punt gun, or something else just as stupid. They don't seem to realise their modern 3 in or 3 1/2 in 12 ga fire the same loads as the old 8 ga. here in USA 0ld 8 ga came with 1 3/4 oz to 2 1/4 oz of shot same as the new 12 ga magnum. maybe they should brush up on duck loades and waterfoul history.

Don't think I could have put it better, sounds like good advise to me!!

Horsager;
I could not agree more, as long as the pellet kills, it matters not what gun shot it. The main thing it enjoy your sport and don't spoil others.

Now any chance of getting back on topic or is this going to be just a whining forum.


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## Horsager

Eightbore, what make/model 8ga are you shooting? I've had my hands on 2 LC Smith's, a Standard and a Deluxe. Deluxe may not have been the actual designation grade, but I can't remember exactly what grade it was, an upgrade from the standard field grade gun though. The two I handled were $10,000 and $12,000 US roughly 10yrs ago. I know where the higher grade one ended up, no clue as to the field grade. I'm much more a sub-guage guy than 10's, 8's or larger, but being able to handle the two 8's a bit was at least interresting.


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## huntingdude16

For the question of effective range of a shotgun, if we were to look at a .410 3in load, and a 3in 12 gauge load and both traveled at the same velocity, yes if you were good enough with the .410 it should be no different. It's just a matter if you can consistantly put that .410 exactly on the bird every time.
But if you were to ask me which gun, on average, is more effective on ducks at longer ranges, you can bet i'll say the 12 gauge. That bigger pattern and more bb's is just plain more effective.
Again, if you were THAT good and could take the ducks out farther just the same, more power to ya.


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## universitywaterfowler

Well I would like to hunt with an 8, or someone who has one and see, maybe I am being a little to naive. Thought something like this would destroy birds if you were shooting them inside of 10 yards, but maybe not. Good topic, few posts gone off topic, but we like to rant.


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## USAlx50

So a 12 ga. doesn't destroy birds inside 10 yards?

Simmer down, we're just talking about sky carp here, you know the ones that infest golf courses and $hit all over the place..


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## universitywaterfowler

Yes I suppose 12 gauge can get a little messy inside 15 feet, wrong type of shot and you can gut the birds. Put the bead on the melon and you don't have a problem, might be hard to keep them on your game carrier with no death though. :sniper:


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## Eightbore

Still if you want to talk about BIG guns, look at the attached photo, don't worry Uni not many would have the "nuts" to fire this so _your geese_ are safe 8)

No joking, this is a 1 1/2" punt gun cartridge case, capable of 20 oz of shot with a full load.

I know off of subject but worth a look.

PS, can't be shot from the shoulder


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## AIRBOAT

> YES BIG BORES ARE FUN TO COLLECT AND SHOOT, YOU CAN FIND JUST ABOUT ALL THE RELOADING COMPONENTS YOU NEED IF YOU DO THE RESEARCH EVEN PLASTIC HULLS FOR 4 BORE, MY 2 EXAMPLES ARE A DOUBLE 8 AND A HOLLAND & HOLLAND 4 BORE


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## universitywaterfowler

looks like a blast, but i wouldn't want that bill on my tab. :bartime:


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## huntingdude16

Cool!
Can you shoulder fire that four-bore?


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## jhegg

Only once with 3 oz. of buffered lead at 1350 fps! Unless, of course, if your name is Tom Armbrust. He can withstand an incredible amount of pain!
Jim


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## AIRBOAT

YES HUNTINGDUDE I SHOOT IT FROM THE SHOULDER WITH NO PROBLEM AS THE WEIGHT OF THE GUN ABSORBS A LOT OF THE RECOIL, THE LOADS I SHOOT ARE FROM TOM ARMBRUST LOAD DATA FOUND IN HIS NEW BOOK CALLED 4 AND 8 BORE SHOTGUNS AND LOADS. THE LOADS THAT I SHOOT RIGHT NOW ARE 85 GRAINS BLUE DOT AND 3 1/2 OZ OF # 2,3, OR 4 SHOT WITH FIBER WADING AND NITRO CARDS WHICH GIVES A VELOCITY OF AROUND 1200 FPS AND PRESSURE OF 8800 LUP. THIS IS A CONSERVATIVE LOAD BUT PATTERNS REALLY GOOD.


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## Eightbore

Nice guns Airboat, trying to make up my mind on the 8 bore, what make and hard to tell from the photo is it damascus barrels ?.
Those plastic 4 bores don't reload to well though do they crack after a couple of goes.


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## AIRBOAT

Eightbore said:


> Nice guns Airboat, trying to make up my mind on the 8 bore, what make and hard to tell from the photo is it damascus barrels ?.
> Those plastic 4 bores don't reload to well though do they crack after a couple of goes.


HEY EIGHTBORE THE MAKER OF THE 8 DOUBLE IS JP EVANS AND IT DOES HAVE DAMASCUS BARRELLS WHICH HAVE BEEN NITRO PROOFED, MY LOADS I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING ARE 2 OZ LOADS USING BLUE DOT FROM TOMS LOAD DATA, AND YES THE PLASTIC 4 BORE HAULS NEED TO HAVE THE TOPS TRIMMED AFTER EACH SHOT BUT I CAN STILL GET 5 TO 6 SHOTS OUT OF EACH CASING.


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## Eightbore

AIRBOAT said:


> HEY EIGHTBORE THE MAKER OF THE 8 DOUBLE IS JP EVANS AND IT DOES HAVE DAMASCUS BARRELLS WHICH HAVE BEEN NITRO PROOFED, MY LOADS I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING ARE 2 OZ LOADS USING BLUE DOT FROM TOMS LOAD DATA, AND YES THE PLASTIC 4 BORE HAULS NEED TO HAVE THE TOPS TRIMMED AFTER EACH SHOT BUT I CAN STILL GET 5 TO 6 SHOTS OUT OF EACH CASING.


Try an over shot card and a bath sealant fillet around the top instead of the RTO (about 3/16" fillet) then clean the mouth of the case with fine wet & dry and you will get more out of them then 8). Seems to work fine but just be careful with them.
Works well in the brass cartridge cases too. Mine are marine brass and they have lasted well over 30 years (made them from a propeller shaft) just clean them and recap, never re-sized them in all that time.


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## AIRBOAT

Eightbore said:


> AIRBOAT said:
> 
> 
> 
> HEY EIGHTBORE THE MAKER OF THE 8 DOUBLE IS JP EVANS AND IT DOES HAVE DAMASCUS BARRELLS WHICH HAVE BEEN NITRO PROOFED, MY LOADS I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING ARE 2 OZ LOADS USING BLUE DOT FROM TOMS LOAD DATA, AND YES THE PLASTIC 4 BORE HAULS NEED TO HAVE THE TOPS TRIMMED AFTER EACH SHOT BUT I CAN STILL GET 5 TO 6 SHOTS OUT OF EACH CASING.
> 
> 
> 
> Try an over shot card and a bath sealant fillet around the top instead of the RTO (about 3/16" fillet) then clean the mouth of the case with fine wet & dry and you will get more out of them then 8). Seems to work fine but just be careful with them.
> Works well in the brass cartridge cases too. Mine are marine brass and they have lasted well over 30 years (made them from a propeller shaft) just clean them and recap, never re-sized them in all that time.
Click to expand...

THANKS EIGHTBORE FOR THE CASE PREP TIP INFO I WILL TRY IT.


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## Eightbore

I have added some pictures of 8 bore cartridge boxes;


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## R y a n

Plainsman said:


> Every once in a while we get someone on here that has hunting experiences vastly different than ours. We had a fellow on for a while from Australia, and it was interesting hearing about hunting in that area. When I returned last night I was pleased to see you were still posting. Most of us are friendly, so please don't let anyone run you off. Looking forward to more of your posts.


I fully agree Plainsman.

Eightbore I would also like to take a moment to thank you for coming on here to post your thoughts and experience. It is truly enjoyable to have others from all over the world come on here and offer up their knowledge. It really makes this place a wonderful site to come, sit and relax, while learning from others.

Please keep contributing ... your posts are some of the most interesting on here in some time. We'll work to keep the ranting off the boards, but occasionally a thread goes off topic.

Thanks again

Ryan


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## Plainsman

Thanks for the support Ryan. 4CurlRedlegs took a little skin of my nose, getting this back on track, but the bleeding has stopped, and I think universitywaterfowler and I are on the right track with each other also. He has my full respect.


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## Eightbore

Thank you "All" for the welcome, I have learned to enjoy my hobbies, which range from "big bore" guns to "Cartridge collecting" to "Fly tying" I have been lucky (or unlucky some would think) to have worked and lived all round the globe. So there are not many countries that I have not shot or fished in.
I have never shot more than 6 geese and/or 12 duck at any one time, as that is more than enough for anybody, I try never to shot at any thing out of range (that is of course realative) and I love my sport. I really do feel sorry for the youngsters as they will never see what some of us have or be able to do it, which is a great shame. I am also sad that I never took pictures or wrote down some of the things I done as a kid/teenager.

This is a good topic so lets keep it going :beer:


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## huntingdude16

Indeed, it's a very interesting topic. I wonder if this shouldnt be moved to the shotgun forum?


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## AIRBOAT

YA ALL CHECK THIS SITE A NICE DISPLAY OF THE MARKET HUNTING ERA SHOWING SOME LARGE PUNT GUNS, 4 AND EIGHT BORES AND A BATTERY GUN VERY INTERESTING ITS A WONDER WE HAVE ANY FOWL LEFT, THAT MUST HAVE BEEN A BLASThttp://www.intercom.net/~shoreman/market_hunting.html :sniper:


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## AIRBOAT

HERES A BETTER SITE WITH DESCIPTIONShttp://www.members.tripod.com/~Delmarva_Shoreman/market_hunting.html


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## huntingdude16

Interesting stuff for sure. I wouldnt mind having that 11 shot tube.


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## Eightbore

Some more Boxes and Cartridges,

8 bore NPE

Selection of newer cartridges

The last of the cardboard cartridges type of box.


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## AIRBOAT

EIGHTBORE I THINK WE FELL FROM THE SAME TREE, THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THE BIG BORE THAT HAS A LOT OF HISTORY AND THAT HAS BECOME AS OUR WAY OF SHOOTING TODAY IT IS A SUBJECT THAT WILL NEVER BE FORGOTTEN BECAUSE IT IS HISTORY. A FEW EXAMPLES OF MY SHELL COLLECTION ARE SHOW, A BRASS PUNT GUN SHELL, MISC 4 AND 8 BORE SHELLS AND SOME 4 AND 8 BORE PINFIRE SHELLS. IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME AND ALL THE WATERFOWLERS THAT APPRECIATE THIS TYPE OF HISTORY


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## AIRBOAT

SORRY OPERATOR ERROR


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## Eightbore

I think you have a good point there  ;

Give us a break down of what cartridges are in the table lay out please. I know most but there are a couple I am not too sure about.

I have never managed to get a brass punt gun case yet, I only have a few cardboard/paper ones. Nice box of 4 bores too.


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## Eightbore

Airboat;

Some more boxes of 8's

A 50 box of gastights

Gastights short brass N0 4's

Gastights short brass N0 4's

Gastights short brass N0 4's (No Case Printing) Propably War time issue

Gastights short brass N0 4's and 2's With Gastight Head Stamp

8 bore Red Cartridge Case with short Brass

8 bore Yellow Cartridge Case with short Brass

Eley Bismuth Side View (10 box)

Eley Bismuth Top View (10 box)


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## huntingdude16

Bismuth has been around for long time, huh?


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## Eightbore

huntingdude16 said:


> Bismuth has been around for long time, huh?


No Huntingdude, only about 5 years. I am just keeping one as I don't think that type will be around again  , so have one now as some day they will be rare and collectable (I hope).


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## AIRBOAT

HEY EIGHTBORE THATS A PRETTY IMPRESSIVE COLLECTION OF SHELLS YOU HAVE THERE, HERE ARE A FEW SHOTS OF VARIES LARGE BORE I HAVE HOPEFULLY YOU CAN SEE THE HEADSTAMPS


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## Eightbore

Very nice Airboat, few I have not seen. I will drag some more out and see what else I have.


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## Eightbore

Well this seemed to die a quick death :-(


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## R y a n

Eightbore said:


> Well this seemed to die a quick death :-(


No worries man...

Chalk it up to various hunting seasons starting up and guys being out in the field alot more compared to hanging out on the boards...

Ryan


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## james.hunter

Very interesting good to see some shells are still around.


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## huntingdude16

I saw an 8 gauge black-powder gun in.....Carrington I think it was at a sporting goods store. Cool gun.


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## dfisher

Seems odd to me, and it may have already been touched on here, that you can use a .410 bore gun for waterfowl, but a gun bigger than a 10 is not allowed. Seems a bit skewed to me. I would think that the little guns would be cripplers more so than a big gun like the 8.

I would love to try one of those out on ducks and geese sometime. I bet you get some awesome patterns with it.
Good hunting and nice post,
Dan


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## Eightbore

To give a nice view; pictures of two Kynoch Patent Brass cartridges


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## AIRBOAT

Hey eightbore, I picked up another double 8 at auction here in the states its english maker is C G Bonehill, Very clean bores and a good shooter. Attached are a few shots.


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## huntingdude16

Dang, that had to have cost a pretty penny! 

Beautifull gun!!!!


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## AIRBOAT

Thanks huntindude, I guess when i think about my 4 bore this one didnt hurt so bad it was only 1/3 the cost 3k


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## NDJ

Just found this thread now & had a question for the gentleman on the other side of the pond.

Is it still a common Euro method of hunting to attempt to float into big groups of resting birds??? Are punt guns legal weapons???

I've always been intrigued with market hunting, the weapons and techinques used...


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## R y a n

huntingdude16 said:


> Dang, that had to have cost a pretty penny!
> 
> Beautifull gun!!!!


I'll second that! Wow!

I'm going to find one of those myself soon enough..

Ryan


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## Eightbore

Hey Airboat, lovely piece.

Just a quick reply, I will try and put on some pictures tonight of my guns.

Once again, very nice gun.


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## Eightbore

Airboat,

Couple of quick pictures before I go to work 

Damn ........does not want to accept photo's will have to finish tonight.


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## Eightbore

Would not take any more pictures this morning and timed out on me. Maybe the server was busy!!

So Try Again 8)

No problem this time :beer:


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## Eightbore

Give you all a laugh at my expence.

*Always take your crossing birds early*

Being right handed and being soaked to the skin, waterproof just streaming with water and geese coming in right to left. Both feet stuck firmly in the mud........ Are you getting the picture?

First barrel down comes the pinkfoot, by now I am bent about as far round to my left as I can go. Pull trigger gun slides gracefully down my arm to stop at my elbow just as the recoil hits.

This picture was taken 5 days later.

And yes it did hurt ..........


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## AIRBOAT

Very Nice gun there eightbore, Bad looking arm ouch


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## Eightbore

AIRBOAT said:


> Very Nice gun there eightbore, Bad looking arm ouch


Thank you.

First one is a Tolley magnum and the second a Greener Faciles Princeps very nice gun to shoot with too. The pattern is stunning.


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## Eightbore

Come on Ryan, your turn to find an 8 bore now :roll:


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## Eightbore

NDJ said:


> Just found this thread now & had a question for the gentleman on the other side of the pond.
> 
> Is it still a common Euro method of hunting to attempt to float into big groups of resting birds??? Are punt guns legal weapons???
> 
> I've always been intrigued with market hunting, the weapons and techinques used...


Sorry I did not answer before but I must have skipped this one somehow.

I can not talk about Europe but in the UK yes there are still a few left that use and have them. Not that they are common they are not, just a band of dedicated punt gunners. Not me any more I have not made or shot one for over 20 years, I enjoy the foreshore much more. To correct your usage; you attempt to float up to big groups not "into".
They are still legal up to 2" bore and that is it, no bigger. Now that is one hell of a gun, 1 1/2" is plenty.

Like yourselfs no market garden shooting is allowed and it is an offence to sell wildfowl in Britain.


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## Eightbore

Airboat,

Dug out a few more old 4 bore cartridges for you to have a look at.

Notice the Extra Thick rim on the oldest of the Kynoch Patent Perfects as against the tiny rim on the oldest case, the One Piece brass Kynoch with side wall dimples, this measures smaller than the One Piece brass Kynoch Birmingham.


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## AIRBOAT

Very nice selection Eightbore, I have some of those except for your older brass cases. Again nice display.


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## davenport wa.

In fact if you were doing your home work correctly you would know who was going to be in that field with you before you went in maybe that's why you are having people shoot over you deks, maybe they are shooting at you,............ :sniper:


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## 308

I don't think I want to shoot an 8 gauge :spam:


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## Eightbore

308 said:


> I don't think I want to shoot an 8 gauge :spam:


Jezzz don't let a bit of a bruise put you off, the good bit was I didn't miss with the second barrel either


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## Eightbore

Airboat,

Found some more pictures, this is a friends 4 bore, note that it had been used as a punt gun at some time and has a breaching hole in the stock for use in the punt.


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## AIRBOAT

Nice example there eightbore there is no comparison of a gun that was built by a gun maker than that of a production made firearm. I saw a simular 4 bore at holt and company a few years back that had the hole drilled for punt usage. Do you ever come across any 4 bore doubles in your neck of the woods.


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## Eightbore

AIRBOAT said:


> Nice example there eightbore there is no comparison of a gun that was built by a gun maker than that of a production made firearm. I saw a simular 4 bore at holt and company a few years back that had the hole drilled for punt usage. Do you ever come across any 4 bore doubles in your neck of the woods.


Yes we do but not many about. In fact I was playing with one not that many weeks back. Also I was offered a nice cased double a few months back, along with all the reloading gear but it was a bit too rich for my blood.
Do not think I would like to carry one about those about any more on the marsh. A single would be plenty, so I will stick to the 8 bore thank you.


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## Eightbore

Airboat, don't know if you are still around but attached are a few more 8 bore cartridges I have collected 8)


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## HoosierHunter88

Are all these cartridges paper becasue they are old or is that what u shoot in England. (with all do respect) the only paper cart. I have seen are ones we bought that are really old Remington shells.


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## Eightbore

HoosierHunter88 said:


> Are all these cartridges paper becasue they are old or is that what u shoot in England. (with all do respect) the only paper cart. I have seen are ones we bought that are really old Remington shells.


LOL would never dream of shooting these :roll: , they are old ones that I collect, the three pictured above range from circa 100 years old to about 75 years old. From top to bottom, 3 1/4" Kynoch, 3 3/4" Kynoch (both were produced as primed empties) and a 4" loaded case, perhaps Eley loaded.
Mainly shoot plastic cartridges or brass which are all reloaded. I don't know of any commercially available loaded 8 bores cartridges at this time (shotgun cartridges that is). Have to use brass for the magnum 8 bores as there are no cartridge cases of that length. I wish somebody would make a few hundred thousand at 4 1/4" long, I am sure they would sell like hot cakes.


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## trikortreat

sure hope this one dont get locked up.......whats he gona break my legs with????  ...think we should give him all his feathers back...from years past and the meat huh? guess i should go uke: so we can give it back..


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## rosssmith46

I am an Australian lucky enough to own 2 * bores, one a muzzle loader dating to the 1870's uses 2 ozs in front of 156 gr black, fair boot but an efective range of up to fifty yards with no holes in the pattern that a goose size bird could hope to squeeze through. the other is an American single barrel "Davernport" chambered in 3 1/4 mag black powder though the gun may actually be nitro proofed. This gun has a measured full choke and is a bit of a hassle as the 2 ozs load at 50 yards will mince a rabbit with either # 2 or 4 shot sizes. My feeling after extensive pattern testing and measurment, is that with BB shot it would make a great goose or turkey gun - provided ranges were kept somewhat beyond 50 yards, otherwise it would be a bit destructive on game. *'s were not normaly chocked and those that were rarely had more than 1/2 choke more commonly 1/4 choke, why mine is a very full choke is a bit of a mystery.


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## Eightbore

Most of the 8 bores I have owned and those owned by friends are full choke. 8 bores were made as fowling guns and built for long range shooting hence the more choke the better, odd to see no choke as normal. Over here an 8 bore with no choke, then the first thing I would look to see is that the barrels have not been shorten therefore cutting of the chokes. Most damacus guns were built with longer barrels so that the black powder had longer to burn were as the later nitro powders were faster and shorter barrels could be used.


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## rosssmith46

The choke thing could be a difference in shotgun culture between the British and the American shooters, nearly all the eights I have come across were British made and Un choked also black powder. I guess that with the advent of nitro powders and modern steels the more modern 8's particularly those made in the states may well have turned to the use of chokes to achieve maximum performance. Do your own 8's with full choke seem to work best at slightly longer ranges with larger shot as mine does, say 50 yds and a bit over ?


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## rosssmith46

does any one know where I can get my hands on some "Gulandi" 8 gau plastic wads as these are awsome but I have nearly run out. the pattern improvement with them is something not to be missed.


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## Eightbore

rosssmith46 said:


> The choke thing could be a difference in shotgun culture between the British and the American shooters, nearly all the eights I have come across were British made and Un choked also black powder. I guess that with the advent of nitro powders and modern steels the more modern 8's particularly those made in the states may well have turned to the use of chokes to achieve maximum performance. Do your own 8's with full choke seem to work best at slightly longer ranges with larger shot as mine does, say 50 yds and a bit over ?


Yes, all my 8 bores are full choke, if you have British guns without chokes then I would love to see the markings as I would guess that they have been bored out. Mine Greener with BB's will just about put all the shot into a 50 gallon drum at 60 yards, Greener chokes are extra full at 0.058" give or take a thou.

Your next topic answers the question, if you had chokes you would not need the "Gulandi" wads. Where are you based?


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## rosssmith46

I am living in outer Mongolia but keep my house in Tasmania. The gun I want the Gulandi's for is an american single barrel "Davenport" top lever which looks very much like a classic Harrington and Richards single barrel gun. It Has a very full choke but the gulandi's give it a tight even pattern though I wouldnt get all my shot on a 50 gal at 50 yds not all of it any way though it would be beautifully evenly peppered and certainly concentrated to the centre. this may change a bit as I need to do more work with heavier shot sizes which it seems to favour.


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## jhegg

Regarding patterns:



> it would be beautifully evenly peppered and certainly concentrated to the centre


This is not possible.


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## rosssmith46

perhaps I should have noted that all full choke patterns are not equal, a handfull of shot in the centre with an uneven graduation toward the margins is of not much use to me, all my pattern measurements are using the British accepted system of a 40" plate with a measured 30" circle and the pellet count being taken inside the 30" circle being converted to the percentage required for the choke being used, regardless of the gauge being used. My gun using british #2's places 74% of the total pellet load in the 30" circle at the proscribed range of 40 yards from the shooters shoulder. This makes it slightly tighter than a British full choke. the pattern density of the inner circle shows only slightly higher concentration at the centre and outside to the margins of the 40" plate gives a still even "tapering off" this is a classic, well designed choke allowing exellent game getting results.


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## Eightbore

rosssmith46 said:


> I am living in outer Mongolia but keep my house in Tasmania. The gun I want the Gulandi's for is an american single barrel "Davenport" top lever which looks very much like a classic Harrington and Richards single barrel gun. It Has a very full choke but the gulandi's give it a tight even pattern though I wouldnt get all my shot on a 50 gal at 50 yds not all of it any way though it would be beautifully evenly peppered and certainly concentrated to the centre. this may change a bit as I need to do more work with heavier shot sizes which it seems to favour.


Was trying to think who might be your nearest stockist but I guess you should just ask the next passing Cossack for some................


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## ducks

Took 2 english men hunting with me in my duck blind.After calling A big bunch of mallards in to about 60 yards they stood and began shooting.I jusy hung my head and cursed to myself.They killed 4 mallards at 60 yards .Kind of hard on the dog,but wonderful shots.They Later invited me to scotland to hunt geese and ducks.Roger shot 8 bore double and Eric shot A single 4 bore.These men were great shots at distance.It is not sky basting and believe me I hate sky busting.It is just A different culture and they think that "rough shooting" is very un sporting.Roger and Eric have finally come around to my way of thinking and understand that it is different here and they enjoy our way of doing it.


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## whiffler

I have found that my 3" magnum 12 bore is more effective than my 10 bore - just not worth carrying the additional weight!


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## mightyten

nitro company load of 2.5 ounces of hevi #4 or #2 in the mighty 10 with a terror choke tube less effective than a 3'' 12 bore ?


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## bobert

hey guys, i have used a 4 bore on the geese if they are high birds, we dont tend to use decoys much over here in the uk so we tend to shoot them on there flighlines. its a holland and holland 4 bore and its loaded with 4 1/2 oz bizmuth 1's.







its shown here alongside my semi auto for size comparison, and the recoil is only similar to shooting a heavy 2 3/4 shell out of my over and under


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## jhegg

rosssmith46,



> the pattern density of the inner circle shows only slightly higher concentration at the centre and outside to the margins of the 40" plate gives a still even "tapering off" this is a classic, well designed choke allowing exellent game getting results.


Sounds like you have an excellent 40 yard pattern. You do not need an 8 bore to achieve that though.

Jim


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## goosehunter64

The first bismuth loads I had back in 93-94 were from the Ely cartridge company. I think it was #6's and boy oh boy was it deadly.
I used bismuth off and on up until a couple of years ago marketed by Winchester....and it was highly deadly stuff. It basically kiiled every bird I hit, and didn't, on the ones I missed. :crybaby: :lol: . Though, not nearly as deadly as Tungsten. I've used Federals Tungsten Iron, I believe it was, and Kent's Tungsten Matrix, and found it patterned better in my guns, and just had better knock down power.
I still miss the old days of lead.
Low or High brass 5's or 6's over decoys.....nothing like it. Then in 97 it was a total ban, in Canada and we had to switch over.
Not saying I'm a crack shot, but I have made great shots with lead and steel...and bad with both.
I was lucky enough to use steel before it was all we could use, and I liked it's performance.

Most of shot gunning what most don't get is....is it's all about the choke shot combo, well if you can shoot that is. :lol:

Great piece and pix of the 4 & 8 bores guys. Love the history behind it all.


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## goosehunter64

I just noticed, that this thread is over 7yrs old :beer:


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## Eightbore

Just goes to show that good things just get better with age. :rollin: .

Just like the 4 bores and 8 bores, it is such good fun to keep the old guns going, and great to use them. As I think big bores like them should be used and not just hidden away in collections.

Lovely 4 bore by the way Bob.


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## foreman450

I was looking for information and came across this post and I read where some asked why you would need an eight guage. Judging by his attitude he probly owns a Glock and drives a Hummer, but thats another disscussion. Anyway I always hear people put down guns or the person that owns and shoots something different. Before being negative about a gun you should research the history of the gun and learn how it came about and what its uses were or still are. 8 guages are still used today but not for hunting. They are used for cleaning chimmeneys and kilns in large factories, and a special penetrating slug is used. Thats intresting.


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