# Why live in ND?



## water_swater (Sep 19, 2006)

Why would anyone want to live in ND? Its cold, its salaries are often subpar, there are no trees and lots of wind. The population is aging and declining, what does it have to offer?

ND has few things to offer, a relaxed and relatively low crime environment, as well as the great outdoors. The only reason I can think of for any young person to want to stay in ND is the outdoor oppurtunites it provides. So why do we sell one of the few resources we have to attract people to this state cheaply and without limits?

People in the legislature want to make a profit off hunting, ND has limited sources of revenue, and they see hunting as a way to make a quick buck. Why not use hunting as a resource to lure people to live in ND instead of coming for two weeks. Why not move away when you can come back and for $125 whenever the season is open and hunt. Realistically what is $125, a case of shells, 4 decoys, this is nothing for many of the hunters that visit in the fall. I dont think the cost is the problem I think the lack of limits is the issue.

Resident hunters spend much more money and are more helpful to the economy than are non-residents, of course these numbers are slightly skewed because residents dont help motels ect, but realistically hunters buy there equipment where they from and that is part of the true cost of hunting. If one business moved to ND and hired 100 people at $40,000 that would bring 4,000,000 which is roughly twice the income generated by selling 20,000+ hunting licenses.

In the next ten years if nothing changes ND will be much different, it will be like many parts of the nation where it will cost you cash to hunt. ND will be leased or owned by thousands of people who come here for two weeks to shoot their pheasants or ducks. This will ruin our farm economy because the recreational value of the land will push the cost of it above what farmers can afford to purchase and grow their operation at the size necessary to be competitive.

I know this issue has been beat to death on this site but I thought I'd approach the issue from a monetary and ND growth perspective than a we have way to many non-res hunter prespective, obviously the legislature doesnt care about conservation on dollar signs.

If ND limited pheasant and duck licenses to 4,000(extreme) each people would move to ND. Worst case they would be retired but at least we would be expanding our property and income tax base. ND now raises 50% of the duck popluation in the central flyway that is a special thing that no other state or province can claim. Why not use it to draw people here. Eco tourism and the outdoors is the most rapidly expanding industry in the planet, why not limit guide numbers and use our natural resources to re-make ND into a very special and unique place to live that is desirable for young people?


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Nice post. Only thing I would correct is that many of us resident hunters stay in hotels. Although I live in Devils Lake I don't stay in a hotel here, but have stayed in hotels across the state just to hunt.

You have to wonder why Denver and Seattle are the two biggest cities with influxes of the country's young people. Is is the recreational things?

If so, we have a gold mine and I too believe our young people will stay if we show them ND's resources.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

The biggest threat to wildlife in the next 10yrs in ND is going to be the fact that farming cash crops is profitable again. CRP leases are 1/3 of cash rent rates, and cash rent is going higher. I know of a very large parcel of land in central ND that cash rented for $93/acre. Why would you re-new CRP for $20-$50/acre when you can cash rent for 2x-5x more?

Cash rent is up-front, no strings attached and the terms are negotiable between the parties, I can't imagine signing up for a 10yr rigid gov't run program when you can negotiate every 2 or 3 years with a neighbor or local person and make more money with more flexibility. That's the biggest challenge we're going to face in the near future.


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## water_swater (Sep 19, 2006)

I personally dont think biofuels will last, nitrogen is on the way, the only biofuel that will last is biodiesel. These crop prices are too high, and will mess with the food supply, every government knows the most important thing you need to keep people happy is cheap food. Farmers arent supposed to make money in our system


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

i would love to move to ND, but show me where I can land a great job, send my daughter to a private school and have travel and real entertainment options? the leatest census survey showed ND as having one of the highest "exit rates" of residents in the US. major coporations don't like the climate or the limited population base or lack of airport access, so that basically keeps them from locating here. ask the young folks why they are leaving and i would expect them to say lack of meaningful employment opportunities. hard to reverse that trend too.

as for the land all getting "leased up", well that is pretty much up to the individual landowners and i would guess most of them are ND residents.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

That is an excellent question that many residents have asked an then left our state and is reflected in our population trends. Obviously, people in general have not found the answer to your question.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Nationally, locally,

It doesn't matter politicians will sell us out without any concern because they realize we aren't paying attention to the details.

They are in it for short term gain in their power and pockets...

and thats our fault.........


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

im just going to say thank you for not trying to blame this on nr's. nd does have some excellent outdoor opportunities, and its not there fault for wanting to enjoy this. we are also losing thousands of CRP acres to cash rent. its getting rediculous.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> This will ruin our farm economy because the recreational value of the land will push the cost of it above what farmers can afford to purchase and grow their operation at the size necessary to be competitive.


Spoken by some one who hasn't got a clue. When was the last time you checked land prices in ND? When was the last time you attended a land sale?



> Eco tourism and the outdoors is the most rapidly expanding industry in the planet, why not limit guide numbers and use our natural resources to re-make ND into a very special and unique place to live that is desirable for young people?


"IF" Eco tourism is so much on the rise as you say why not capitalize on it? Look at the job's created by tourism, look to our neighbor south of us and what tourism means to that state.

I will agree with you in 10 years things will be much different. One of the main reasons will be from the loss of CRP. CRP is on the way out along with it will be PLOTS. Not very many on this site seem to care either. What will happen especially with the upland hunting is the ones that enroll there land back in CRP will be outfitters. Take my land for instance it pays $45.00 an acre CRP if it qualified for the new CRP it would got to $55.00. I rented farmland next to my CRP last week for $80.00 an acre. Even you can figure that one out, money talks. If I would re-enroll land into CRP hunting would have to pay me more or why mess with it.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> i would love to move to ND, but show me where I can land a great job, send my daughter to a private school and have travel and real entertainment options?


Want the moon too??
You have to make some decisions in life. SOme of us love the fact that people with the values like ours have made this state their home. Yea, there isn't a lot of broadway plays and there isn't any pro sports, but you will never beat the excitement that hometown sports provides and there is nothing better than sitting on a tailgate after a hunt and having a few frosty ones. Keep your broadway shows, keep your private schools, keep your pro sports and your mega malls. I can visit them whenever I feel the need. I will take ND life any day. There is no where better to raise a family then right here!!!


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## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

djleye said:


> > i would love to move to ND, but show me where I can land a great job, send my daughter to a private school and have travel and real entertainment options?
> 
> 
> Want the moon too??
> You have to make some decisions in life. SOme of us love the fact that people with the values like ours have made this state their home. Yea, there isn't a lot of broadway plays and there isn't any pro sports, but you will never beat the excitement that hometown sports provides and there is nothing better than sitting on a tailgate after a hunt and having a few frosty ones. Keep your broadway shows, keep your private schools, keep your pro sports and your mega malls. I can visit them whenever I feel the need. I will take ND life any day. There is no where better to raise a family then right here!!!


I agree with everthing you said except i wish we had professional football team, so didn't have to be let down by the vikes every year!!!!! :lol:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

G/O is that price difference because of corn priceing rising over methanol production?


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

Good morning everyone,

G/O, your response is right up my allie.

We have 100 plus acres in CRP, and because of the price of rent ($80)
you see what we are thinking (not renewing that contract).

We will most likely be increasing our pasture land rent this year because
ND has rated our land some of the best in ND, with that, it also meant
that the taxes went up, do you see, it gets harder every year to make
a living, city folk and non-land owners don't understand this.

As for the Pheasants, we have always had them there, so I don't see
any reduction in hunting them. Maybe we are lucky in that respect.

Well, see you later


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Bobm said:


> G/O is that price difference because of corn priceing rising over methanol production?


Yes and no?? The bigggest culprit is crop insurance you can guarentee in my area $400.00 an acre for 2 years raising corn. So why not rent land for $80.00 to $100.00 an acre. The federal government has installed a mighty fine safety net for the farmers. In a few years they will wake up and change things but it will be to late. CRP will have gone the way of the buffalo.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I'm not being a wise guy these are some things I want to understand.

I don't understand how that insurance works and why it impacts the land value. Are you saying that someone can rent the land from you at 80 /acre and then get the feds to guarantee that they will makes 400 a acre no matter if a drought or locusts :wink: or whatever happens.

If thats right how much does the insurance cost per acre and how much does it cost (estimate it) for the farmer to grow a acre of corn.

thanks


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Are you saying that someone can rent the land from you at 80 /acre and then get the feds to guarantee that they will makes 400 a acre no matter if a drought or locusts or whatever happens.


Yep even if the price goes to hell.

The cost of planting corn depends on a lot of varibles, How much your machine debt is. Conventional or no till when you did your shopping. Did you buy your fertilizer last fall etc. etc. and the price of your land. You can easily have 200 bucks an acre tied up.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Bob, if the public knew they'd go through the roof. The crop insurance premium is also subsidized by you, the tax payer at apx 60%. In ND the program expects to write off a million plus acres before the seed is even planted. Because it's not cropable ground but is insurable. Pretty slick. That's why they burn out the cattails. Uncle encourages it.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Thanks both of you, I still have another couple questions,

Dick, I took that to mean you mean the taxpayer pays 60% of the insurance premium? Yes??

So how much is the entire premium per acre?

G/O is the premium included in your estimate of 200 per acre for costs?

And how many bushels of corn can you gow up there on a acre? Corn is sold by the bushel right?

This is amazing stuff.

Thanks


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Bobm, The premium is around $30.00 an acre but that doesn't matter. I will pm you later and explain more pretty amazing program.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I was trying to calculate (roughly anyway) how much hunters will have to pony up if they want to support the Plots program.

Obviously they will have to closely match what the current value of the land is if they want plots to continue.

I guess with the numbers we have so far about 170.00 per acre.

Is that right or am I screwing up?

How many acres of Plots are there statewide in areas that would be suitable for growing corn?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Bob, hunters don't have to pony up to save CRP. Congress just needs to set the payment for conservation at an equal rate for either option. Then let the landowner decide. I believe the Fedral farm program subsidizes the grain market that moves conservation acres into production acres. At a higher cost. If conservation payments were set at the same rate as crop land cash rent I believe at least some landowners would prefer the conservation side. However the ag industry lobby fights this tooth and nail because they cannot sell product to conservation acres.

Delta, NDWF, BCWF, and MN Ikies authored a letter to the ND congressional delegation and Congressman Colin Peterson that we called "Pitch Black" detailing such a strategy. It was mailed last week just before the deadline for input on the farm bill so we haven't heard anything back yet.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

IT would be good if the CRP rates were raised as you suggest, but
dont the feds want the corn production up for the methanol plants?

Your other point about the ag lobby by selling product you mean seed fertlizer tractor ect right.

Dick I have a couple more things I've been wondering

Why is switchgrass and ceulosic methanol production not a better idea?

Can farmers make as much money growing it?

And is switchgrass any good as wildlfe habit?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

I'm not an expert on this, but have read that the MTB replacement additive for gasoline is to be ethanol. Don't know if that is mandated. If so it will take more corn to replace the MTB. However sugar from cane or beets produces far more ethanol per dollar spent on inputs.
Yes the inputs are the seed, fert, machinery, insurance, transportation, storage, etc.
To break down cellulose reqiures a specificly efficient enzyme which to my understanding has not been perfected yet. Also cellulose is difficult to transport any distance because of it's bulk. Which then requires more smaller plants for production. So you lose the efficiency of size.
Switch grass is a hands down good deal for pheasants. You will find them there before any other grass in ND. As for making money on it....not yet.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

i read an article in a newspaper that stated it will take 3 gallons of conventional fossil fuel to generate/make 4 gallons of ethanol (includes the diesel fuel needed to plant, apply fertilizer, harvest and transport the corn to the ethanol plants) so, as usual the whole story is lost in the excitement of finding an alternate fuel, which if we planted fence row to fence row we still only supplement fuel needs by 13% of the total needed.
i wish i had the article to post, as this is not my made-up info. oh well.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

also the article addressed switch grass for fuel production, but said the technology had not been developed to support it yet, as corn alcohol is an easy conversion.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

> Spoken by some one who hasn't got a clue. When was the last time you checked land prices in ND? When was the last time you attended a land sale?


I have been following land sales in south/central ND for about 9 years now. I have seen a handful of Dr.s from Ohio and others purchase land way above value and watched the 24 yr old farmer hang his head as he walked away. In 7 years with the extension service, even seeing one was too many for me.



> "IF" Eco tourism is so much on the rise as you say why not capitalize on it? Look at the job's created by tourism, look to our neighbor south of us and what tourism means to that state.


And what has happened to the resident hunters in that state? Is SD that much better off than us? We still pay our teachers more, state government employees more and their small towns are drying up as well. what has changed for them? Want to talk about land prices? SDSU and the Watertown newspapper both reported the over and above land price sales linking it to the almighty pheasant. Wanna keep looking south?

My question to you g/o is. What about us residents? It seems you only have an interest in keeping you afloat, yet who shows up when you need an ambulance or your bales are on fire? Is it the Nr or is it the resident sportsman behind the uniform?


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## water_swater (Sep 19, 2006)

G/O I realize you have your ideas, and I have mine, I agree to disagree but I will defend my opinions. While land prices have not begun to significantly jump yet, they will. ND is a long drive from areas where the sport of hunting is actually growing. Unfortunately it's not growing in the youth, but rich old men who have money and decide they want to shoot something. The first of the baby boomers are about to retire. When all the good recreational land is bought in the South where do you think they will be looking? Fortunately not that many people REALLY know about North Dakota and the outdoor oppurtunities is provides. Many of the people we complain about on this site are average joes like many of us from Minnesota and Wisconsin, not the people who will eventually be buying out the state.

The recreational value of land is something that is always present, the level of the price is a reflection of supply and demand. This price increase will not happen overnight, it will slowly rise until the amount of land left for sale is reasonably small at which point prices will be extreme. Try to buy some good hunting land in Missouri, $3,000 an acre for land that is probably recreationally sub-par to many areas of ND. It will happen, will ND or North Dakotans do anything about it, probably not. The only way it will be halted is if it rapidly affect our largest industry agriculture. For that to happen the buying will have to occur quickly and in the near future, unless people see large changes they dont react, people are used to prices rising due to inflation. Land prices could resemble gas prices in the last 10 years a 250% jump. What if cash rent for you was $200 in 2017, and land cost $1250 per acre base, how well would your operation run? Hopefully your wheat is running 200 bu/acre because the price will still probably be $3-4.

Sometimes making a quick buck now will sell out your future!

The reason you dont capitalize on hunting eco-tourism is the same reason most farmers don't get rich. Hunting especially is a reflection of weather conditions, in the past 15 years we have had exceptional wetness, which has significantly raised outdoor opportunities in all parts of ND. What if ND has a similar summer, where are the waterfowl? Where is our economy then?

I agree with you in the CRP issue, if your prediction is true, you assist my point in why we should not capitilize on hunting. There will be nothing left to hunt and another part of North Dakota's economy that we depend on for income will be weakened.

I think your reply to this issue has to do with how you answer the question, What is hunting to me?

No one will answer the same, we as North Dakotan's need to ask that question statewide, then decide what direction we need to take as sportsmen to keep the hunting OPPORTUNITES (not rights) we have today alive for tommorrow.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> I have been following land sales in south/central ND for about 9 years now. I have seen a handful of Dr.s from Ohio and others purchase land way above value and watched the 24 yr old farmer hang his head as he walked away. In 7 years with the extension service, even seeing one was too many for me.


Not true again, I've watched land sell and yes a hand full of investors have bought land for hunting but of the total land sales this is a very,very small percentage.



> My question to you g/o is. What about us residents? It seems you only have an interest in keeping you afloat, yet who shows up when you need an ambulance or your bales are on fire? Is it the Nr or is it the resident sportsman behind the uniform?


Come on give me a break with that old song and dance!!! Locals have no problem finding a place to hunt its the non local residents like yourself that are doing the complaining



> I agree to disagree but I will defend my opinions. While land prices have not begun to significantly jump yet, they will.


Huh????????? Like I said before and will repeat again you haven't been to many land auctions lately.



> . What if cash rent for you was $200 in 2017, and land cost $1250 per acre base, how well would your operation run? Hopefully your wheat is running 200 bu/acre because the price will still probably be $3-4.


Hmmm been to a sale a couple of weeks ago land sold for $1600.00 an acre. Last week some poor land sold for $1200 I haven't seen anything sell for less than a grand an acre for several years. I guess 2017 is here already.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

> Come on give me a break with that old song and dance!!! Locals have no problem finding a place to hunt its the non local residents like yourself that are doing the complaining


That is simply not true. Obviously you are only listening to what you want to listen to. Hunters from all parts of ND are all saying the same thing. And I was not born and raised in DL. Actually used to live down in your neck of the woods so I am not as "non local" as you think.

The problem g/o is....you have never been on this side of the fence. You have no idea what it is like and what we have experienced in the past 10 or so years.

Here is a challenge for you. Become a freelance hunter in this state for a period of two years. You are not allowed to hunt any of your land. You go through the same steps we all go through (scouting, landowner relationships, etc..). Become one of us and see if you still feel the same way??


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## water_swater (Sep 19, 2006)

If 2017 is already here ask yourself why!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

water_swater said:


> If 2017 is already here ask yourself why!


$4.00 Corn


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

For those of you looking to move to ND my advice is to learn how to sell ag equipment, then watch the CRP trends for your timing of the move. If CRP acres and payments aren't increased There 'll be lots more land in production. Lots more land in production means lots more equipment purchases.

If CRP goes away or is seriously reduced, I think the Ag service stocks will see the kind of gains that the oil service stocks have seen lately. Might have to become a bit of hypocrite, buy into the ag expansion through the stock market, make some money, get out, buy some land of my own to hunt on.

I'm not in the financial business, and I'm no stock trading genious by any means. I do know however that lots of new incremental business is good for stock prices and much of the money is made in a sector before analysts and stock brokers spot the trend. T'would be nice to be out front of just one of those trends for once.


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## FloridaWyld (Apr 19, 2007)

Hello everyone!

I'm new to the forum and am fascinated by this topic- its actually the reason I registered. We've been considering relocating our family to ND for several reasons. My husband is an avid fisherman and loves to hunt as well; I need space to expand my current business (I manufacture herbal soaps). We have three young children who are still in elementary school.

We are both natives to the East Coast of Florida, where farming, fishing and hunting were the traditional way of life. Now we import our citrus from other countries and plant tract houses instead. The schools are no longer teaching the children (Anyone here know what a 'chapter book' is? Can you imagine not teaching a child spelling or punctuation because it isn't on their standardized test?) and the cost of living has gotten so out of hand that a 'normal' family can no longer afford to buy a home and make a life. Homes that four years ago were selling for $45,000 are now selling for $245,000- yet there has been no increase in wages.

All of this has led us to the conclusion that we can no longer afford (on so many levels) to keep our family here. While it breaks our hearts to leave our hometown, we realize that the lifestyle and values we hope to maintain are no longer applicable to our town.

As we've looked around the country at areas we could relocate to, the majority of them are facing the same problems we've experienced here. In my search for places that share the 'lifestyle' we are trying to perpetuate, I discovered some interesting facts about North Dakota. A quick web search led me here.

In Florida, our groves were hit hard by hurricanes and canker. Property taxes rose on a regular basis and getting products to market became a near nightmare; then the first grove owner sold. At the end of the block came a new 'gated community', a former farm that now was seeded with zero lot line housing behind a large gate with a fancy fountain out front. This led to more traffic and the next farm owner selling. Since that time we as a community have lost our cattle, our local groves, our locally produced honey. We're under severe water restrictions as the businesses and influx of new residents have tapped the aquifer nearly to death.

From what I have read and seen, North Dakota's lifestyle resembles the lifestyle that was afforded residents in our small town ten years ago, without the beaches and the fresh seafood of course!

My question for you is this: with the price of a home and land being so inexpensive and the towns being such small, 'hometown' communities- what are the REAL drawbacks to the state? Is the lack of population simply do to the snow? Unlike hunter9494, we aren't looking for a metropolitan community with amazing museums and fantastic nightlife. What we really want is some place to go to raise our children, grow what we need (in the summer at least) and help the business expand.

Does it sound like ND would be a good location to consider or are we out of our minds to want to relocate there? In the midsts of all the problems here in rural Florida there has been a huge upsurge in resentment towards 'northerners' who buy here, with the situation almost coming to violence (one of the 'new' people actually wrote in to the local paper and said that everyone here who worked in a service industry should move because the area was 'too nice' for those 'ignorant poor people'!). Would we face the same roadblocks if we did choose to relocate to ND?

I really look forward to any responses. Thanks in advance!


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Florida: ND is unbelievable. Do you remember the Andy Griffith Show? There are still many places that are very much like Mayberry.

I don't want you to think the streets are paved in gold or anything, but ND is the bang as far as I am concerned. Our summers are great here and the fall and spring are too. Winters can be fun if you make them fun. It gets cold here though. I am not going to lie when I say there can be one full week of high temperatures of -20 degrees, but it is usually short lived.

May I suggest Devils Lake, ND? Not a small town, but not a large city either. It definitely has the small town feel to it though. The college hosts some great plays and concerts, the walmart and Kmart are reachable in 5 minutes drive, wine clubs to meet people, numerous churches to choose from, and probably hosts 1 of the best steakhouses around (awesome king crab legs, ribs, and prime rib!!).

Hunting and fishing is great. Good school system and the housing is priced fairly reasonable. There is also quite a bit of real estate just outside of town. Local gun club hosts muzzleloading, rifle, and pistol ranges along with trap, skeet, and a 5 stand sporting clays range. Devils Lake is a premier walleye and perch lake throughout the year.

You can reach Minnneapolis in a day's drive if need be. Full hospital here in town too.

Let me know if you have more questions.


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

I grew up in ND, went to school in Gainesville - GO GATORS! - and spent a lot of time on the Panhandle. I knew it was time to come back to ND when I graduated. There are so many great things to see and do, and once you get over the "flatness" of it all, you'll think so too, and it only takes a few weeks to get over that! LOL.

Try it out. If you make it through one winter, you can make it through them all! And...you don't have to worry about gators in the local swimming hole.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

You are on the right track, At least would hope it would be many years before we have gated communities.


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## FloridaWyld (Apr 19, 2007)

Thanks everyone! Yeah, the tract houses and gated communities are pretty much the scourge of the earth..in my opinion at least. We've been looking around two different areas- Cooperstown and Cathay. We're hoping to have around 10-15 acres and the prices in those areas seem right. Not being familiar with anything north of the Mason Dixon line, I've no idea if there would be any work for my husband outside of the home in those areas.

Anyone familiar with either of those locations?

My husband keeps asking what we're missing- it all seems too good to be true! Maybe we're just weary after the influx here- our 'sleepy little town' has grown to over 200,000 people in less than three years!


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

What does your husband do?

I'm a native but spent 22 years in the traveling to different places...ended up back here and LOVE it.


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## FloridaWyld (Apr 19, 2007)

My husband works for a large industrial supply company (they have branches in ND, but are not currently hiring there). Thankfully he's one of those people who can do just about anything he sets his mind to.

He was raised on a cattle farm with groves and crops to tend to (just mention digging post holes and he still cringes). Its been so many years since he was in that lifestyle that he wouldn't feel comfortable moving up there strictly to farm. Of course, he spends his quality time out on the water fishing for snook, redfish, flounder- anything that has gills really.









He isn't afraid of hard work and has worked in physically demanding jobs over the years (such as doing roofing work) but he is afraid of not having enough money to put food on the table.

Me, I'm an odd combination. My sister likes to call me a technologically advanced hippy.







I can design websites, type around 120 wpm, know my way around the guts and hardware of a computer and network. I'm currently a freelance writer for our local newspaper in addition to owning an online magazine and having my soap business.

My stuff is portable though- I can do my jobs from anywhere, at any time. That's why ND looks so attractive to me- overhead would bottom out and making a 'living' on what I earn would be much, much easier.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Florida:

I suggest taking a 1 to 2-week vacation to ND this summer. Granted a vacation is not like living there, but it will provide you a good overview of the state. The Air Force took me to ND initially and all I can say is I will retire there. I love the outdoor opportunities, but more importantly the people are GREAT.

I suggest a family visit for you. Good luck in your decision.

Mike


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Mike's idea is a good one. I don't think your husband will have trouble finding work and your stuff is very portable.


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## woodpecker (Mar 2, 2005)

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Not to mention a great hunting area!!!!!


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

djleye said:


> Not to mention a great hunting area!!!!!


Shhhhh! :wink:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

After reading a lot of these posts two things people have to realize about the great state of ND.

1. The hunting and fishing is great.
2. People are great.

But now things that are going to effect the first part.

1. Corn price at $4 a bushel....that will cause lots of CRP to be taken out. Like others have mentioned cash rent is on the rise. Now you can't blame that on the NR.

2. The waterfowl hunting has been so good the past 2 decades because ND have been wet. Look at the 90's! Look at a DRY LAKE. It was a pasture now a big lake. The G&F and the ND goverment has helped some. But the main factor is the weather and lots of rain and snow the past 2 decades.

3. Now with land prices are rising because people can make more money off the land. Again $4 corn, cash rent. Rent is on the rise so prices will go up. Also look with the $4 corn....other things will rise in price. Some land prices have jumped because of rec value but now have leveled off. But the driving factor for land prices is return off of the land.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

The wheels are going to fall off the corn parade, it is just a matter of when. I hope it is not too late for wildlife population when it does, but my guess........It will be!!! :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

DJ,

You are 100% correct. Prices are already decreasing a little. But like others have mentioned is that food price will rise with $4 corn so then the fed's will step in. One way is with different food programs (stamps or what ever) or they will start to decrease the price of corn some how.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

*I think a better question is why are you returning to North Dakota... *like many others I have moved away for a short period and will be moving back this summer...

*Why would you move to North Dakota...* that is like asking a person from New York why they live there.. housing is outrageous, people everywhere, no place to raise kids... but you know what, there are millions of people that enjoy that type of life.

*Why would you move to North Dakota... because I love it. *


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Mosquitoes and cold weather keep out a lot of riff raff!!!!!!


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

I look at this way... when I get back to ND and I have to I will work on a farm or whatever to pay the bills until I find "the right job" I will make due - that is the right job being a job that I could see myself in and enjoying for 5-10 yrs minimum.

The thing is you have to make trade offs... my wife and I moved away to gain context and make some bigger salaries to pay off debt(wedding) and school... I am not one to talk a lot about myself but (for context only) I will describe my situation. I have worked as a consultant for one of the worlds largest financial firms... surrounded by graduates form Harvard, Yale, NYU, etc. B-Schools... worked with the best and brightest from India (amazingly intelligent), Great Britian, Asia, China... worked on multi-billion dollar projects...

BUT I UNDERSTAND... that with the pace of life that North Dakota offers it has a balance... that is why I am willing to fore-go having the "DREAM JOB & LIFE" handed to me and CREATE MY DREAM JOB & LIFE by doing what I have to in order to do what I want to in the end!! There is no place on God's Green Earth that you can find the DREAM LIFE or DREAM JOB, no where, without some sort of trade off.

It makes me chuckle a bit when people are so negative about North Dakota and the opportunities it has or lack of for that matter. Instead, ask yourself what kind of opportunities you could create there... what could you do to change things for yourself and for the state? Everyone looks externally for opportunities... it is something that society has created in the past few generations. I am 28... even I remember and take to heart the words of JFK... ASK NOT!! We have become a society of entitlement... NORTH DAKOTA DOES NOT OWE YOU A GREAT JOB... it only owes you a place to call home if you wish and if not... there are great jobs in Arizona!!

People need to learn to set there expectations based on what reality deems possible rather than what they think reality should be... they are very far from the same. Dreams are only good if you own them and focus all your efforts towards attainment... if not they are only delusions.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I hope this doesn't sound condescending, because it is not meant like that!! That is a fabulous, insightful post for someone of 28 years!!! :beer:


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## bandman (Feb 13, 2006)

I give you Kudos on that post also NDkid! Very very well put! :wink:


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

NDKidd,

Excellent points


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## rudabaux (Dec 3, 2004)

I too moved back to ND after a short stint in Denver. Born and raised in ND, got a promotion that required me to move. I worked downtown so there was no way to avoid the horrible AM/PM rush hour. There were several factors that contributed to my unhappiness there, but missing ND and what was back there(family/friends)was #1 on my list. My company wouldn't transfer me back so I quit and moved back here. Colorado was beautiful and there was always something to do, but it wasn't for me. Best decision I have ever made. I pulled into Fargo with the Uhaul late on a Friday night and was pulling crappies out of Pipestem early the next morning. I knew I was home. ND=born, raised, and where I will die.


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