# The never ending debate



## sotaman

I have been very lucky to live and raise my family in North Dakota over the last four years. I joined the Air Force out of high school and my career brought me here. And I am very thankful for it. I grew up chasing all the critters I could in Minnesota and that is were I still call home. Even thought I could settle here with no problems. That is my back ground and now for my questions.

Why does it seem that we (us as a group using nodakoutdoors) continue to pick fights with the whole resident vs nonresident stuff. I don't understand this. Some of you that post on these types of threads are the same guys that say we need to get the youth involved in the sport, or North Dakota is a freelancers paradise. Do you really think that is a secret or something? I remember in sixth grade a friend coming out here and telling us how unreal the waterfowl hunting is. So with that reputation that North Dakota has how can you expect anything else but a huge surge of NR.

What I don't understand is why as sportsman can't we live under the fine words of Rodney King " Why Can't We All Just Get Along" I hope that you can look into the mirror after an encounter with a NR and at least say I treated them respect that all humans deserve. And they can do the same. Do you think a NR driving here to this state from all corners don't come here with some expectation during their hunt? Wouldn't you if you went to Alaska to chase a moose or a bear? We as sportsman are on a slippery slide. And if we can't come together as a group we are going to loose everything. Granted maybe not in my life time or yours but I am sure worried about my kids.

Why do you get mad at a resident if some one is set up in the morning in a field that you had plans to hunt. Did you talk to the landowner or did you over sleep well the guy that beat you to the field sure beat you out there. Or when you are set up and some one sets up a little ways away do you bother to walk over there and invite them to hunt with you instead of competing for the same birds. Hey it is dark they didn't know you were there. But I guess you prefere to come on a website and complain about it. Come on guys be willing to help don't be greedy be kind to a person that has the same passion as you.

Trent Thomas


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## roostman

very well put Sotaman, the NR topics getting real old fast, maybe we should have a " Take a NR hunting day over here" I bet that would go over real well  We do need a cap on waterfowl hunters, anybody can shoot my limit, I like the upland game myself. I like the idea of a lottery system and maybe even hunting zones kinda like deer hunting. Just my two cents, I do get tired of the NR bashing though, until we change things they have every right to hunt here as we do, again Sotaman nice thread to a very old topic. GO Twins!!!!


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## djleye

Trent,

I know that there are many people here that think I am anti NR. Nothing could be further from the truth. Last year I hunted with plenty of NR's as I will this year. My beef is with people that expect residents to post up what we see in our travels around the state. I don't think that gas costs me any less money than it costs anyone else and my days are as precious to me as anyone. If I were a NR coming here for the first time, I would come with someone that has been here before or find a local that is willing to take me out the first year. It isn't tough to find birds, it just takes time, effort, and money for gas. I feel that if anyone really wants the true hunting experience that they should be willing to make that same sacrafice that I do. If you don't, hire a g/o. Hunting is the entire package as far as I am concerned and not just showing up and shooting.
Sorry for the ramble, but that is where I am coming from. I hope that makes sense.


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## KEN W

djleye....I also am tired of being called anti-non-res.I think we should all be called

PRO-Resident from now on.....big difference.


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## sotaman

djleye

I see your point and understand that. But isn't the same thing really as posting about fishing. Hey how many feet of water and is there a hot color or presentation. A lot of people don't mind sharing that.

Another thing that one must assume on this sit is people are trying to there home work were do I plan a trip and I hate to say it they depend on us living here for a little push in the right direction. A guy living in Iowa doesn't have the three weeks to scout like you or I do. They may have three days total to hunt. What does it hurt to point them in the right direction. And then you also have the chance to teach them about how WE do it here by not hunting the waters were waterfowl tend to rest and so on. Because if a few did that it would end another debate that happens all the time on here.

I guess I am different that way I have no problem sharing what is working and what isn't. I beleive in the big rope theory I was taught this in boundry waters. And many live by it today. What goes around comes around. I beleive you better stop for someone on the road that has car problems because soon it could be you. It could be you getting skunked on the lake and wondering whats going wrong, It could be you going to a new area to hunt and you are used to doing your way you have been taught in North Dakota. Open your eyes all of us one day will need some help when you are in the field or on the lake. DOn't screw with fate.


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## Jiffy

Hey Ken, all that would be is semantics. Nothing more...nothing less.

I love all NR's just as long as they don't use g/o's....all you NR's out there reading this listen up. YOU DON'T NEED A G/O TO HUNT IN ND!!!! There is absolutely no reason for it!!

Happy hunting this fall gents...shoot straight!! :beer:


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## sotaman

KEN W said:


> djleye....I also am tired of being called anti-non-res.I think we should all be called
> 
> PRO-Resident from now on.....big difference.


Ken your right a person paying tax on propetie in the state of North Dakota should receive some perks. I wouldn't disagree on bit. But what about the guy whos grandma passed away and left him some land? Or people that spend there recrtational money on land in the state.


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## BurnZ

Well said sotaman :beer:


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## N2DUXS

Great post Sotaman. I have been reading these boards for the past 3 years and I have yet to see a NR ask for GPS coordinates. What is wrong with saying there is good water around a certain city, or there are some migrators going through a certain part of the state or a certain county looks good for puddle ducks or geese. Most non-residents have made up there mind where they are going and already have reservations made and most post I see are just asking for a general descreption of the area they are going to. Instead of saying, "it's dry, go scout like we all have to", what's wrong with saying, go north or go south for best results?


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## KEN W

Well....I said resident....if you don't live in ND you aren't a resident.You are a non-res.I am not against non-res.I just think if you live here you should recieve priveliges people who don't live shouldn't recieve

As far as owning land here and living outside ND....you are still a non-res.I really don't know what the rules should be.....but they certainly shouldn't be the same as a resident landowner.... since you aren't.

Wow....is that hard to follow????Kind of like ....

How much wood can a woodchuck chuck?


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## gandergrinder

Sotaman,
That is all fine and good until you get screwed a couple of times, then your attitude may change a little.

Helping people is fine. Showing people how to do it is cool. Showing someone, then having them hunt the area you showed them every weekend and then their friends are hunting there too. Not cool.

Having them call you and tell you what a great hunt they had in the area you showed them. Even more not cool. Would have been fine had they asked you to go along but that never happens.

I've done the friendly helpful thing with lots of NR's but I don't help just anyone who asks anymore.

I believe in karma too. I also believe in fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.


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## R y a n

Trent thanks for starting a new Hot Topic post. This is the type of stuff I was talking about ... This post should foster some good discussion...



sotaman said:


> djleye
> 
> I see your point and understand that. But isn't the same thing really as posting about fishing. Hey how many feet of water and is there a hot color or presentation. A lot of people don't mind sharing that.


No it is not the same. If I told you to go sit along the fenceline along the south side of Kemmet's irrigated corn to the east of his house ... that is very specific.

If you told me to go along the south shore of Little Toad lake and float across stump point in 15 ft with a pink lindy rig, that is specific, however a person usually would still mess it up because they can't see the fish, or they may have moved over etc...

Pointing out a hunting location in general a person can still get close, note the changes, make corrections and still find birds as you can hear/see where they are. Fishing on the other hand is much more subjective.

Simply put, guys have a LOT harder time finding good hunting spots with access than someone who fishes. There are MANY hot fishing spots with TONS of access. See the difference? I firmly believe that unless you grew up in ND and saw hunting through a resident's eyes, you can't appreciate this comment.



sotaman said:


> Another thing that one must assume on this sit is people are trying to there home work were do I plan a trip and I hate to say it they depend on us living here for a little push in the right direction. A guy living in Iowa doesn't have the three weeks to scout like you or I do. They may have three days total to hunt. What does it hurt to point them in the right direction. And then you also have the chance to teach them about how WE do it here by not hunting the waters were waterfowl tend to rest and so on. Because if a few did that it would end another debate that happens all the time on here.


Trent... I don't expect you'll fully appreciate this.. this is a HUGE deal. You reply as if you think the member's here OWE them accurate responses. Since when should anyone have an expectation of fully accurate precise information? As has been pointed out MANY times, gas costs $$$, scouting costs $TIME$... IF a guy in Iowa wants to come here they SCOUT. They plan on spending an extra day or two here and they look. That is how it has always been done before you visited this site, for years and years past. What has changed in the overall equation?

What does it hurt to point them in the right direction? Answer your question this way... If you only hunt your local area, and you know where the nice bucks are... are you going to PM someone the directions to the trails they are walking down on your area? Why not? Same thing applies to many passionate waterfowlers here. They LIVE and BREATHE ducks/geese. They know that if they give directions to their favorite haunts that they'll eventually be more crowded than if they keep their trap shut!

Furthermore, they'll still hunt the way they planned to. That is what they are comfortable/familiar with. You are not going to change their hunting tactics with words. Very few will take a chance with a brand new technique with their precious days in the field.

The vast majority of NR's don't understand roostbusting. They refuse to listen. (Just look at the number of duck boats still driving down I94 even with the drought)

I get really frustrated when even as an NR I hear some of the things said here. We have a new generation of hunters barely into their 20's who have no real concept of traditional ND hunting. We have another batch of people on this site who are not from ND, but think they "get" ND values and hunting practices. They have been indoctrinated into thinking a certain way and are much more likely to be computer saavy and willing to post up what they think "things should be".

There is something to this. When you grow up in any town outside of Fargo/WF or Grand Forks, you grow up with small town values. Even Bismarck kids still grow up small town due to all the natural resources surrounding them. If you come to ND via a job move, military or else you still don't "get" what I'm saying. Residents who grew up here in small town ND know exactly what I'm driving at.... there is this "value system" that is different than anywhere I've ever lived or travelled to.

The guys are protective of their local honey holes. They don't want you coming in and telling them they have to reveal them. Or worse yet, that they have accepted you into their resident fold, showed you their spots, only to find out that you go and decide that the privy information should be shared with all.

I think in summary that ND's "value system" is changing for the worse. We have transplants to the state, a different generation of younger children under 18 addicted to video games and computers, and a shifting urban population that is using their $$ power to affect how hunting used to be. This is much bigger than "ACCESS".... Rather this has more to do with an entire generational shift of attitudes...

I don't know where this is all going.... but I do know it was one of the major factors in my decision to leave...

This makes me think back to then. Some of you may remember me, as I spoke at length at 2 ND Game and Fish Advisory Board meetings about the outmigration of resident ND youth. I advised the commissioner and board that with the tidal wave of changes coming to ND hunting including guiding/outfitting, decreasing access and increasing NR's #'s without caps, that I would likely be leaving the state for a job with better pay. Hunting in ND as a resident is a special privilege. The watering down of resident's rights by special interest groups has taken away the luster of that privilege.

You asked Trent why "We can't all just get along?" Well I think that North Dakotan's by and large are the nicest group of American citizens you'll ever meet. That cannot be denied. However you are slowly chipping away at the most powerful heritage in the state. The wise ones resent what is being taken from them. They are fighting a valiant fight to preserve everything they can.

You can't blame them for wanting to keep paradise intact.....

Ryan


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## Hunter_58346

You make it sound like we take every NR hunter and chain them to the whipping post before they hunt. How many on this post have ever been mistreated while hunting in North Dakota? Granted, we may not show you our best spots as you wouldn't show us your best fishing hotspots. I hate to compare the two but I had to in this case. Why is it so hard for us to get through to some, and i mean very few, that all we are trying to do is protect what we feel is ours. And by ours I mean our right and responsibility to manage the resource? Am I wrong??
By the way Sotaman, the RED shells are doing the trick for me!!


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## sotaman

Jed Did you tell the dude that what he did isn't cool. I have enought common sence lot saying your lacking it. But between me and my hunting partner we have an agreement bring who ever you want hunting but the must understand that they are a guest or ares and are not allowed to hunt the area with out are permission. Thats how we have prefented the burn. Sorry that the stuff happened to you I agree that is not cool


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## sotaman

R y a n said:


> You asked Trent why "We can't all just get along?" Well I think that North Dakotan's by and large are the nicest group of American citizens you'll ever meet. That cannot be denied. However you are slowly chipping away at the most powerful heritage in the state. The wise ones resent what is being taken from them. They are fighting a valiant fight to preserve everything they can.
> 
> You can't blame them for wanting to keep paradise intact.....


Ryan I agree with you on most of your comments. Your right Iam not raised and breed in ND. But a small town is a small town. I wouldn't dare step on to a neighors land with out permission in Minnesota. I really don't feel I am owed anything by a resident I can put the time in and scout and find the deer. But hunting a deer on the praire is a lot different then hunting the big woods. So yes I am willing to tell a person how to set up and what to look for. But common courtisy will get you along way. In the world of outdoors. And part of me says your right am not a hug waterfowl hunter. I think it is cool to be in a bunch of decoys and have honkers lock up on you. But with all the pressure and gread I see I don't see the point. I will post more later I have a bunch of kids we are watching and I need to leave to help with cub scouts in a litlte bit


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## jd mn/nd

Sotaman you have and probably will continue make many valid points here on this site. This however is one of your powerful statements to date. There is no reason that anyone here needs to state that they are anit-res. or nr basher or that they are Pro-resident, they have and will continue through their posts let their feelings be known. What I would like to know is would any one here that has been maybe let's say less than kind to others, would you walk down the street in your home town wearing a sign showing everyone your feelings on various subjects? I would be surprised if any one really had the nuts to do it yet some do it here, why? Don't misunderstand me I am not saying that everyone is not entitled to their opinions, just that maybe they should tame them down a little you know like when your yelling at someone and their yelling back, did you really hear what they had to say? No, not really but when you talk to one another and have a civil conversation, your point is usually much clearer and more understandable, if not your more apt to ask questions to better understand rather than if someone is constently yelling, right.

Look we all know everyone is going to have different feelings about how to hunt, who should be allowed to hunt, how long the season should be, how many everyone should be allowed to havest, etc... but come on everyone lets all start to play nice together and start to really learn from one another, like we all learned in kindergarten if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all, in other words instead of bashing the newby and telling them there's no water, or the ducks all died from the bird flu, or some other smart A answer p.m. them in private and tell them how things work here, don't bash them in public do any of you like to be repremanded in front the staff at your place of employment or is it more comfortable behind the closed door of the bosses office? Be polite and Chris may have more supporting members paying their $10.00, I know that I would feel better about supporting a place if I knew that it was some place I could go and daydream while at work and not get all P.O. because someone's telling me off because I misspelled a word or that I am free loading, on a site, yes it is cheap to support, and yes maybe there are some features that I am missing out on by not being a member, however it difficult for me to support a place that is constantly bashing NR's when that's what I am and I do not hide that fact. Like I said before I have been hunting in ND longer than some on this site have even been alive, and I will be hunting there until the day I die, my father and I made our investment in ND over 25 years ago long before any of this garbage started, and I will take my son up there for the first time this year and he will at age 3 start to learn what ND is about, not just the hunting, but what the people are like what an ND sunset looks like, he will experience for the first time in his very young life what it feels like to be able to see for miles and miles with no obstructions across vast prairies, he will see hugh refuges that go for miles and miles, he will see more species of animals and birds in a few short days than he could in five years of hunting in MN. He will start his life time of ND experiences this year with my guidance, just like my father did with me, and personally I don't think he did a half bad job, and since some of my best memories of my dad were made together in ND I personally can't think of a better place to start then there in ND with my son.

To all who post please remember that this is not always about the hunting for some it's more than that, when your about to make a sharp remark to someone please remember, that on the other end is a live person, who has feelings and memories just like you. Don't desecrate that person's memories or their feelings, because you really only are desecrating your own great state of ND and your own personal integrity, I have met some people from this site and have enjoyed their company and I look forward to making other aquintances over the years to come.

Later J.D.


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## gandergrinder

Are the areas mine to deny access? No, as I don't own them.

Those types of things should go without saying. More of a gentlemens agreement among hunters.

This fall I'm headed to Sask. I'm going to drive 10 hours to hunt with some guys who have hunted the area we are hunting for 15 years. I am their guest. I will be out scouting and asking permission but I still consider myself a guest hunting their area as I wouldn't have gone there were it not for them.

Will you ever see me in that area again in the future? Not unless either of two things happen. I am either with them or they are dead. I could leave canada after I am done hunting and tell every soul on the internet where I was hunting. Would it effect my hunting anymore? No. But it would sure effect the guys I was hunting with as they will still be up there.

It's not a matter of getting along and it never has been. Its a matter of respect for someone who helps you out and its a matter of paying your dues. Knowledge doesn't come free.


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## Chesador

sotaman,

Good post and thank you for serving our Country! I do agree with sotaman that we should as hunters "all get along". I however agree with others that one should never ask where the honey holes are and the we visitors MUST be on our very best behavior in your fine state.

What is happening in North Dakota presently already occured once in my life: 
I grew up in Potter County Pennsylvania in the 1970's when there was said to be " a deer behind every tree". The "flatlanders" (we were not as nice as Dakotans are) would invade every November for their hunting trips. By 1975 the farmers had started to sell off pieces of land to some of those flatlanders who subsequently build second homes or hunting "camps" on it. That was not so bad but those city people would post every foot of ground they owned. Today, access there is very limited. What happened to my home town hunting seems much like what North Dakotan's are facing today! To the Dakotan's credit they are being neighborly to those like me who invade their homeland every year. So, if some on this forum are a little sensitive toward NRs then you are just being human. I am thankful that the Dakotan's are as friendly as they are. For the Dakotans who extend their hospitality every year to outsiders, THANK YOU!

Also, to the one or two North Dakotans who really think negatively of us outsiders who visit annually, please remember that we may indeed live among you someday. Until then we will live and work where we do, much like the young Dakotans will when they venture outside your fine state seeking a "better" life. When they are older they may realize what they have left behind. In the meantime I would think guys like me would give a Dakotan an extra chance if we were considering their resumes.

Those of us who visit North Dakota are for the most part fine citizens and good Americans. We are military, engineers, teachers, doctors, foremen, project managers, carpenters, policemen, and laborers who day by day do their part to contribute to this Nation and OUR way of life. We make the products you consume and keep you safe from harm. We can't all live in North Dakota and if we did, well North Dakota would not be the same. For those of us that may one day move to North Dakota or buy property there, let's remember to keep the access open to the Dakotans and visitors.

Hunt safely!

PS; if any Dakotan wants to visit Washington DC please send me an email ( [email protected] ). I've got a couple empty rooms (in Northern Virginia) you can stay in. I'll even show you around! I may work here but my heart is in the open spaces of your land...


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## shae1986

Heres my issue with this and maybe its becuase the land i own in ND is out in the middle of no where but i hear complaints on how NR are taking away the hunting land from the Residents. Oh by the way i am a Non Resident who grew up in a town of less than 500 people so i dont want to hear that i am a city kid that doens't know anything. But we own a lot of land in ND and EVERY year i go out there, and this land is posted up tight, there is always someone out there hunting without permission. Now every time i've told them that this is my land and have asked them politly to leave, other than the time it was a dad and his kid out there shooting ducks then I actually asked if i could just join them for a hunt. This was probably 6-7 years ago. EVERY time it has been a resident of ND not a non resident just looking for a place to hunt. It makes me angery when people tell me that the reason has NR restrictions is to limit the hunters of out of state and so the residents get first chance.

Now this isn't land that was bought for hunting, it was my Grandpas and it has been passed down and i know that i am EXTREMLY lucky and fortunate for this. But since we pay taxes on the land i dont see why i cannot go out there the first weekend and hunt ducks or that i have to pick a two weekend to go shoot anything else. Is Minnesota perfect, oh not by a long shot, but what ND does is amazing to me. And that many NR don't know how to hunt is resentful. Its not all NR that are busting roosts in ND.

But here is the real reason i posted, i have been out there and pointed people in the right direction but not specifically. I agree with Ryan on the part that you just point them in the right direction and help them out a little. I do the same with my fishing reports in Minnesota. I usually will give them a lake and a depth and a bait if im feeling generous.

I hope i didn't make anyone mad by saying this its just that this is getting out of control and its getting worse year after year, and the fear is adventually MN gonna do the same that ND has done to its NR and that is something i dont want to see.


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## sotaman

Ryan and Jed I will admit I start this thread to prove a point and to extend what I wanted see is about exactly what I thought I would see.

Should you give out your honey hole you would be crazy to. But should you be there to point some one in the right direction it is only the right thing to do.

Have we all changed because of a computer and cell phones darn right we have. Is it a method of doing homework for hunting yes it is. I have used and meet a ton of great people on this site and others.

Do I as a nonresident deserve more then the guy that lives here no.. But I have mixed feelings about a guy that owens land here and pays taxes.

Am I born and raised in this fine state no. But when in rome do as the romans. Thats what I have done and fit in pretty darn well.

Should we all act like growen up yes we should. I am sorry I didn't earlier in the day. But Jed your right it should be a gentlemans agreement between people helping and then those that were helped taking advantage. But the sad truth is we have not all had gentleman rase us and don't know how to act. Thats were pointing some one in the right direction might pay off no matter what state they live in..

Are these treads that bash like minded people disrespetfull yes one hundred percent. I am sorry but if you are so blind to not be able to take a step back and release that fighting amongst us is going to acomplish jack squat then you aren't to bright.

One more things no matter what you think ND is change and I will agree not for the better but it is changing. As is all of the outdoor activity in case you didn't know. Take a chance and step out of your comfort zone and look at the whole picture not just your honey hole


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## Plainsman

Good post Ryan

I don't think this has ever been a debate against nonresidents. Rather it is a struggle for our state to retain it's self government, and unique heritage. We don't want to be California, New York, Florida, South Dakota or Montana. There is nothing wrong with these states, but we are proud of who we are. We also don't want those outside the state telling us how to run our state. I don't think that is to much to ask.

Waterfowl don't stay long this far north. People in southern states have seasons much longer than we do. They hunt for months, while we get maybe four good weeks. Pressure will push them out when weather becomes marginal. When weather makes those Canadian ducks come down they often move rapidly though North Dakota. They often move right past Sand Lake refuge in South Dakota and stage at Lake Andes, South Dakota and often push as far as the Rainwater Basin, and Platte River in Nebraska. This is simply the seasonal pattern in this portion of the central flyway.

Sotaman's quote fits perfectly "when in Rome do as the Romans do".


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## Gohon

> We don't want to be California, New York, Florida, South Dakota or Montana. There is nothing wrong with these states, but we are proud of who we are. We also don't want those outside the state telling us how to run our state. I don't think that is to much to ask.


Plainsman, isn't it just possible that California, New York, Florida, South Dakota and Montana were once just like North Dakota and the people of these states are not telling you how to run your state but attempting through personal experience to warn you how things slipped in their back door on them? Isn't it just possible that stubbornness and blinders could one day move North Dakota up and behind Montana in that list above? When that happens Oklahoma will be the only state left to be called Gods Country.............. and to think you guys were doing such a good job catching up with us.


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## Bob Kellam

Lets all join hands and sing "we are the world" and buy each other a Coke  

Now lets get to residency, Pretty simple every state that I have researched basically says the same thing. Put in the simplest form, You are a resident if you live in the state or have lived in the state for "X" number of months. Not one State had any provisions that you get resident status if you own property.

Sorry but if you hunt; you have the responsibility and duty to know what you are doing and how you want to accomplish you ultimate hunting goals.

It is called planning ahead. IMO the internet is accelerating the demise of hunting in ND because it has fostered a new generation of lazy hunters who would rather have someone give them the GPS coordinates to a spot than to do the work themselves. Residency has nothing to do with it.

Should we help people with "Generic" questions? IMO yes we should, the fact remains that every question asked so far this fall about waterfowling could have been answered by doing a little research on this site. The answers are there look for them and if you have questions PM someone, I have pointed a bunch of you in the right direction this year and I will continue to as I have time.

I will also continue to work for and propose legislation that will help to assure ND retains some of its heritage and resident privileges. Nothing personal toward any person or group It is my state and I feel I should have a say in how it is operated. Lace up my boots and walk the path I have walked in my life in ND and you can have a say as well.

I will leave you with this to think about;

When was the last time you saw a post from a ND resident asking how the hunting was or how to hunt in Montana or South Dakota or Minnesota or any other state??? Is the answer never? Why? because we learned how to hunt, we know how to hunt we know what it takes to make our hunts successful and we pride ourselves on being self sufficient.

ND resident my age were born into hunting. Hunting in my youth was associated with manhood, when you got to go with the big guys you were accepted as one of them, That is why I focus so hard on getting youth involved in the sport. Many my age have left the sport for various reasons but some of us will carry the passion to the grave, I am one of them. I work hard at hunting because it is my passion, I expect no less of any other hunter.

Sorry if this is off topic but the waterfowl forums are what continue to foster the debates year after year.


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## djleye

> When you grow up in any town outside of Fargo/WF or Grand Forks, you grow up with small town values.


Obviousl;y you don't know what West Fargo was like back in the day. West Fargo had about 3,000 people when I first moved here. It was long way from Fargo back then. There was no corridor that had businesses and 13th ave. was a gravel road!! I remember as a kid that we got to ride our bikes to West Acres and it was a long damn way on gravel, 5 miles or so!! That was a big deal back then. We would leave the house on summer mornings and our parents didn't know where we were and probably didn't care. If you were screwing around too much there would be a phone call because you knew averyone in town, you couldn't get away with anything. Trust me, anyone that grew up in West Fargo when I did has small town values!!


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## djleye

Great post Bob!!!!


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## Habitat Hugger

I'm with you Trent! You make some good points.
If I were lucky enought to go on a hunt in BC or Alaska I'd sure use an outfitter!
But if I lived 1500 miles away and ha a weeks vacation to go hunt ducks in ND. OF COURSE I'd use an outfitter! Not even counting that living a long way away I wouldn't have decoys, maybe not well trained dogs, etc. Someone says - find a local!!???!! Where? On this website??? No chance of that! Nonsense! Anyone inquiring gets a lot more than the cold shoulder, but I won't get into that! Lots of the anti outfitter for ND guys regularly use outfitters in different states and provinces?? Rather inconsistent! Do as I say, don't do as I do!
So you are right, why can't we all get along? So far this season I've not heard a SINGLE shotgun blast from some extremely good areas I've been to. Seems to me that if there really was competition the locals would be able to scout such areas out a lot better than some schmuckl who lives in Florida or Alabama!
In my opinion there's room for everyone. Of course not an unlimited number of outfitters! But it's 2006 - back in the 50's and 60's those schmucks from a long way away didn't travel thousands of miles to hunt ducks! Like it or not things change. On the other hand, you can't build a wall around ND, make landowners NOT post their land or lease to outfitters, either ! Not going to happen!
Why not get together and use the C word and be constructive and progressive for a change, all sides! The C word is "COMPROMISE), yet people who have very intelligent posts on many other topics are totally hard headed when it comes to hammering out a solution suitable to both parties. Sounds like a bunch of children to me!
My last post on this topic.
Even though it has been quiet around here the first week of the season, I eagerly anticipate posts come Monday morning that by 10 am all the ducks are quacking happily in Sand Lake! Bull feces!
Trent, we have to get together again one of these days. Ever get down south here to Bis?


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## Gohon

Bob, if you go to site that is set up for Montana, South Dakota, or Minnesota you will see those questions asked. This site is about North Dakota and people coming here. To imply that people in all other states are a bunch of yo-yo's and only people in North Dakota know how to hunt is not only a smug and self-serving comment but the very kind of comment that causes friction on here. That kind of nose in the air talk really doesn't help anyone except to make people wonder about the residents of North Dakota.

You're comment about being born and raised with hunting applies to just about every state in the union. Nobody has a lock on that.


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## shae1986

I grew up in Minnesota and grew up fishing, does that mean that all people from Minnesota know how to fish, haha, i think not. I consider myself an ok fisherman but i do consider myself a great waterfowl hunter. I shoot many birds in Minnesota, it takes some more work, but it has made me a better hunter.

Back to the original debate. Something needs to be done or this is going to be an ongoing debate. ND will never get a major cap on waterfowl hunters or upland game. It is something that will probably never happen without MN doing something back that would hurt our small town resort economy.

Here is my question, why do you want a major cap on bird hunting? I just wan to see what you guys think, now im not doing this to get mad or make other people mad, and if you dont want to share it on this form PM me i am actually interested bc when i am done with college there is a great chance that ND is where i want to make my home, bc of the small town atomoshphere that i grew up in.

MN duck season starts tomorrow and i am excited. Should be a decent year. Good luck guys.


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## djleye

> Someone says - find a local!!???!! Where? On this website??? No chance of that! Nonsense! Anyone inquiring gets a lot more than the cold shoulder, but I won't get into that!


ACtually, you are wrong HH. There are many people on this site that take out NR all the time and don't take, nor do they want, a dime from them. All they ask is that the people don't come and hunt those specific areas when they come on their own!!


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## woodpecker

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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## sotaman

ACtually, you are wrong HH. There are many people on this site that take out NR all the time and don't take, nor do they want, a dime from them. All they ask is that the people don't come and hunt those specific areas when they come on their own!!

Then why all the complaining about NR?? If so many people help.. Kind of sounds funny to me.


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## Bob Kellam

Gohon

Call me or infer all the names you want I stated my opinion as the way I 
see it.



> Bob, if you go to site that is set up for Montana, South Dakota, or Minnesota you will see those questions asked.


I don't go to those other sites very often, and I when I do it is not to obtain information I need. Wasn't talking about other sites I was takling about this site.



> You're comment about being born and raised with hunting applies to just about every state in the union. Nobody has a lock on that.


Wasn't talking about every other state. I was talking about ND. Never said we had a lock on anything.

Sorry if you took offense to my post, again as you stated "the very kind of thing that causes friction on this site" is people reading things into a post that is not there.

If you met me and shook my hand I assure you that you would not think I have my nose in the air :lol:


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## Gohon

Bob, I didn't call you any names so I don't know where that is coming from. I didn't read anything into your post..... I simply read your post and the implications were as plain as day and even the post after mine was from someone that probable saw something along the same lines. If you can't see that then maybe that is part of the problem. I'm sure if I met you or most of the others on here we would find each other likable. Never said other wise. But on here we are not face to face and what you write is what will be judged by the reader. I didn't post to start a argument but merely to point out how you wrote your post was coming across. I stand by my comments.


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## HonkerExpress

We should just start a "Take a NR hunting day", Much like the saying "remember to take a Kid Hunting", its gonna be Remember to take a NR hunting pretty soon. I agre we should try to get better R/NR relations. Its almost at the point we have to just to get along. And we should get along, we shouldn't have to worry about fighting each other to accomplish the same goal. We both just want to have a good time, with friends/family, what not. I am all up for taking NR with me. I really enjoy meeting new people. Just respect me as you would anyone else. Thats what I think. :beer:


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## itchy

As an NR, I stumbled across this site this year to get feedback on how the drought conditions were this year and how they might affect our trip. This is a great site and with the many people surfing the web, there will be many opinions. When people ask me where I hunt, I give them a general areas. Don't want to add to the number of hunters either. I'll tell them how we hunt (fields) because when we changed areas (because of posted land,etc) that is how things were done.

AS NR hunters, we look at our trip as a privelege. We enjoy the company and enjoy the numbers of ducks we see. I have no problem with Res. getting first shot, they deserve it. The money we spend doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the big picture.

I have never had issues with being a NR in Nodak. When we talk to a farmer/landowner on non-posted land (because this is how we were brought up) they are happy to have conversations with us and will usually point out a better spot to hunt. When we ask for permission on posted land, we have been turned away a few times normally because they are working a section and don't want vehicles in the way or they just want relatives on their land. Sometimes we get the go ahead with requests to stay out of an area. They normally just want to know who is hunting their land. The "salt of the earth" are pretty good judges of character.

I don't use this site as a way to find an area to hunt. We know were we are staying and most of the fun we have is scouting, driving around, glassing, and pinpointing a field. People that use the internet to scout are missing out on what the sport is all about.

I don't post too often, as life is too short to get into so many of the discussions on this site when they deteriorate into an us vs. them mentality. I enjoy my short time in the Mecca of Waterfowl and look forward to the trip every year. If people get turned off on coming to ND because of opinions stated on this site they are missing out on meeting good people and an enjoyable time. Emotions run high and should. If we aren't emotional about protecting our wild life, nothing will get accomplished.

Thanks for all who post to this site and also to whoever created it. This forum is needed. Good luck in all of life's pursuits. (If I got off topic, I apologize, just started typing and went with it).


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## Maverick

> ACtually, you are wrong HH. There are many people on this site that take out NR all the time and don't take, nor do they want, a dime from them. All they ask is that the people don't come and hunt those specific areas when they come on their own!!


We (father and I) are taking 2 great guys out this weekend. Both from CO.


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## nadz_MN

Great post Itchy... I could not have said it better myself..


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## sotaman

You guys are great..

There is that better JD but it is the truth isn't it.


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## jd mn/nd

Hey Sotaman, are you trying to get banned from the site? Good thing I already have you phone number so that I can reach you after you canned on here. I would hate to miss an opportunity to finally meet you, besides I have tell you were to go shoot monster bucks up there and yes I will give you a map showing all of my prime locations. Since I do not have a GPS anymore I can not give you coordinates to the "X" spot.

Later J.D.


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## Maverick

Sota....I was merly proving *your* point? :eyeroll: :eyeroll:



> ACtually, you are wrong HH. There are many people on this site that take out NR all the time and don't take, nor do they want, a dime from them. All they ask is that the people don't come and hunt those specific areas when they come on their own!!


There was no bragging behind it. I am sorry you took it that way!! :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## R y a n

djleye said:


> When you grow up in any town outside of Fargo/WF or Grand Forks, you grow up with small town values.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviousl;y you don't know what West Fargo was like back in the day. West Fargo had about 3,000 people when I first moved here. It was long way from Fargo back then. There was no corridor that had businesses and 13th ave. was a gravel road!! I remember as a kid that we got to ride our bikes to West Acres and it was a long damn way on gravel, 5 miles or so!! That was a big deal back then. We would leave the house on summer mornings and our parents didn't know where we were and probably didn't care. If you were screwing around too much there would be a phone call because you knew averyone in town, you couldn't get away with anything. Trust me, anyone that grew up in West Fargo when I did has small town values!!
Click to expand...

My bad Dan.... You are absolutely correct. That was true when I grew up too... I remember the days when basically the only main roads in WF were Sheyenne and Main, and Fargo was still some distance away....and the big gap between the edge of West Fargo and the mall on 13th. I was afraid the youngsters on here wouldn't associate that memory of West Fargo to themselves, as it changed so rapidly it was breathtaking.

Sorry  Apologies for the offense

Ryan


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## R y a n

Bob Kellam said:


> Lets all join hands and sing "we are the world" and buy each other a Coke
> 
> Now lets get to residency, Pretty simple every state that I have researched basically says the same thing. Put in the simplest form, You are a resident if you live in the state or have lived in the state for "X" number of months. Not one State had any provisions that you get resident status if you own property.
> 
> Sorry but if you hunt; you have the responsibility and duty to know what you are doing and how you want to accomplish you ultimate hunting goals.
> 
> It is called planning ahead. IMO the internet is accelerating the demise of hunting in ND because it has fostered a new generation of lazy hunters who would rather have someone give them the GPS coordinates to a spot than to do the work themselves. Residency has nothing to do with it.
> 
> Should we help people with "Generic" questions? IMO yes we should, the fact remains that every question asked so far this fall about waterfowling could have been answered by doing a little research on this site. The answers are there look for them and if you have questions PM someone, I have pointed a bunch of you in the right direction this year and I will continue to as I have time.
> 
> I will also continue to work for and propose legislation that will help to assure ND retains some of its heritage and resident privileges. Nothing personal toward any person or group It is my state and I feel I should have a say in how it is operated. Lace up my boots and walk the path I have walked in my life in ND and you can have a say as well.
> 
> I will leave you with this to think about;
> 
> When was the last time you saw a post from a ND resident asking how the hunting was or how to hunt in Montana or South Dakota or Minnesota or any other state??? Is the answer never? Why? because we learned how to hunt, we know how to hunt we know what it takes to make our hunts successful and we pride ourselves on being self sufficient.
> 
> ND resident my age were born into hunting. Hunting in my youth was associated with manhood, when you got to go with the big guys you were accepted as one of them, That is why I focus so hard on getting youth involved in the sport. Many my age have left the sport for various reasons but some of us will carry the passion to the grave, I am one of them. I work hard at hunting because it is my passion, I expect no less of any other hunter.
> 
> Sorry if this is off topic but the waterfowl forums are what continue to foster the debates year after year.


As per your usual... Great Post Bob

Thanks for the insights. You always have an excellent ability to summarize your thoughts.

Ryan


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## KEN W

NR'sRules....great first post....we don't call people names here.Take it some where else if that's the best you can do.That garbage will be deleted.


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## R y a n

KEN W said:


> NR'sRules....great first post....we don't call people names here.Take it some where else if that's the best you can do.That garbage will be deleted.


Ken check the moderator forum when you have a moment...

Ryan


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## Goldy's Pal

I noticed Twins post season tickets are for sale to anyone, don't even need to be a resident of Minnesota or pay our taxes. You would think a resident of Minnesota and a die hard twins fan that I am should get some kind of priority. :idea: That's it I'm calling Pawlenty on this. :lol:


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## djleye

None Taken Ryan, just wanted you to know where I was coming from.



> Then why all the complaining about NR?? If so many people help.. Kind of sounds funny to me.


Because all the people that think we need help running our state is just unbelievable to me........ :eyeroll: 
There are people that have asked for help and have recieved it, even if it is not in public, and there are those that have demanded help and hopefully haven't.


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## sotaman

Exactly right Goldy because in my mind we own the twins not the carl guy.


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## djleye

Hey GP, they sell all the tiockets they can there, right??? Just sell as many as possible. Oh yea, they have a limited # to sell so it is enjoyable for all!!!! :wink:


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## sotaman

So now will twist it to be poor North Dakota. I thought we were talking about the pressure put on the state by non resident hunters in the state. Sorry ND looses waterfowl are regulated by the federal Government.


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## Goldy's Pal

djleye said:


> Hey GP, they sell all the tiockets they can there, right??? Just sell as many as possible. Oh yea, they have a limited # to sell so it is enjoyable for all!!!! :wink:


 :lol: Yep, but keep in mind we residents get to watch from the outside of the fence or dome when they sell out just like the NR. :lol: If it were up to me the NR would have to buy the zone buster or dome buster ticket for an extra fee to sit in the general admission seats and would only be allowed in the dome from the 2nd inning through the 4th and during the 3rd inning not be allowed to roam in the consession areas.
:lol: 
:beer: Happy hunting this weekend guys, just funnin with ya. :wink:


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## NDJ

but no restrictions on dollar dog night????

I talked to one beer man & he said he'd have to hang it up if he couldn't sell beer to Nodaks...


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## sotaman

NDJ back on topic NOW.... oke: oke:


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## Plainsman

Gohon said:


> We don't want to be California, New York, Florida, South Dakota or Montana. There is nothing wrong with these states, but we are proud of who we are. We also don't want those outside the state telling us how to run our state. I don't think that is to much to ask.
> 
> 
> 
> Plainsman, isn't it just possible that California, New York, Florida, South Dakota and Montana were once just like North Dakota and the people of these states are not telling you how to run your state but attempting through personal experience to warn you how things slipped in their back door on them? Isn't it just possible that stubbornness and blinders could one day move North Dakota up and behind Montana in that list above? When that happens Oklahoma will be the only state left to be called Gods Country.............. and to think you guys were doing such a good job catching up with us.
Click to expand...

Gohon, I didn't have any reason for picking those states, I just went to the corners of the country, and threw in one close one. I figured if I used Montana as an example of a close one rather than Minnesota people wouldn't get their dander up. As a matter of fact, I like Montana very much. Even if they do have some strange customs that I have noticed while driving around the mountains. For example here in North Dakota we wave with all of our fingers.
Now I don't think these people are trying to warn us about the things that slipped in their back door. The problem of to much hunter pressure is trying to slip in our front door. Also, we see it as other people have screwed up their states, and we don't want to let them do the same thing here. I seen some funny bumper stickers in Oregon that said don't Californicate Oregon. I would guess every state feels that way, so what's everyone's problem with us trying to exert control over our own state? Do you want me coming down and telling you how to run Oklahoma? I know you well enough from these forms that anything remotely close to that would light your fire. 
We are the ones that will decided if there is to much pressure. It is kind of like driving down interstate. We have been taught to stay one car length behind for every ten miles an hour. Often it is a mile between cars on interstate here in North Dakota. However, as I often head to Fargo someone will pass me at 75 mph and pull back into my lane one car length in front, and we are the only two cars on the road. Look at the license plate. It will be someone from a state, and I would guess from a city that drives in heavy traffic. Still they don't use their brains. I feel crowded then, and many of our hunters feel crowded now. More importantly I will guarantee you that waterfowl are being driven from accessible areas to inaccessible areas whether or not they leave the state. There are many very fine and decent non residents, but there are a few that look at us like hicks they can run over. None of us like that. 
Were not from Mars, we have the same pride in our state as everyone else. Were willing to share, but were not willing to be over run. We don't like uncontrolled access at the borders of our nation, and we don't like uncontrolled access to the resources of our state. Tell me what state would let others decide the direction of their future. It's insulting. Yes we need to put a cap on waterfowl hunting, but why in the world do we owe the same access to non residents as residents. Because were backwards, suckers, unimportant, not rich enough, politically unimportant, what?


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## Gohon

Plainsman, I don't recall seeing anyone on this forum from out of state telling anyone in ND what they must do. Maybe I missed it or maybe I just didn't read it that way. What I have seen though is comments like "why not do this or do that" or "Wouldn't it be better to do this or that" or "in my opinion you should do this or that because of what happened to us" but they have all been suggestions, not demands or orders telling you how to run things. I saw two NR in a couple posts make some very intelligent suggestions with stats to back them up, only to have a couple of the usual suspects and in this instance ND Res bounce back immediately and throw mud in their face. Something that happens time after time on this topic. My point was that somewhere during time, someone made these same suggestions to these people, again using the states you listed as a example, but they in turn thought someone was trying to tell them how to run their state and turned a blind eye. I just think ND may very well find itself in the same pickle if they refuse to adapt and adjust to the present times simply because some think it can be like it use to be. It's not going to happen and we both know it so why not get the advantage/upper hand on the inevitable. If not then you very likely in my opinion will lose even more of what you have now. It just doesn't make sense to me for these kind of topics to be even started and usually by the same people and then as soon as a Non Resident makes a comment the wagons are circled and they (Non-Res) are almost immediately jumped. Just doesn't make any sense at all.


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## Plainsman

OK, got you. Some posts just come across to me that by golly if you don't do it this way I will not go along with it. Anyway ?????

I think money always wins. Unless we can cure many hunters of complacency then we will win. I think we are fooling ourselves if we think we can compromise with outfitters. It is like I said in another post, it's like compromising with a hungry bear and letting him eat one leg. Tomorrow he is hungry again. Today we compromise away half of what we want. Tomorrow we compromise away half of that. The last time we went to the legislature the outfitters, guides, and tourist industry were not interested in compromise.

When it comes to compromising on hunter pressure, what do we compromise. Let in unlimited and see the birds leave before half the season is over. That's the way it is now. Our season is going when the only birds in the state are in the middle of the Missouri River below Garrison Dam, or an energy plant that keeps the water open. Hunting at 10 below zero isn't sportsman like it's insane. However, I work with people who do it.

Do you think it is unreasonable to limit nonresidents before we limit residents? Would you limit your neighbor before some guy from Chicago?


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## Gohon

> Do you think it is unreasonable to limit nonresidents before we limit residents? Would you limit your neighbor before some guy from Chicago?


No I don't think that is unreasonable at all. I think residents should take priority over residents. Even Oklahoma has a nine day resident only Canada Goose hunting period. At the same time I think a person that owns land in ND or any other state for that matter and lives out of state as a non resident should receive some kind of special status if he is paying taxes and upkeep on that land. If the state is willing to accept his money in taxes then they should be willing to compensate him. If not regular resident status (for hunting and fishing) then somewhere in between resident and non-resident perks. I'm talking about the owner of that land and not his friends or relatives that may come with him.

As far as Guides and Outfitters go my personally feeling is it may be dangerous to lump them all into one group. To me it seems what really sours a lot of people is the canned hunts that they see on television under the guise of guided hunts. I believe there are a lot of mom and pop type guides out there that don't charge a arm and a leg and are a benefit to many. That is a battle that to me must be fought on a local level and that means everyone must get involved, not just a few.


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## Plainsman

Special status sounds good on the surface, and I have thought about it for a long time. I still have not made up my mind, but the danger I see is many people buying just enough land to get a leg up on other nonresidents. It posses some problem to residents (access), but it posses a larger problem for the nonresident not fortunate enough to buy his way into the system. I do want to see nonresidents treated well, so if I make up my mind against this it will be with them in mind. I could use some input here from some of them. 
I realize that lumping outfitters together is not accurate. As a matter of fact it's not like an on an off switch, it's more like one of those infinite switches that gives you hundreds of choices of how bright the light is. So too is the outfitters in North Dakota. As you say mom and pop, but then I think motherhood and apple pie. It sounds good, but mom and pop could mean a bed and breakfast and a hunt on their land. Or - a mom and pop might have 100,000 acres tied up, motels tied up, restaurants tied up etc. What's a mom and pop. There is a farmer I like, and he and his wife own 50,000 acres. That's right a mom and pop with 50,000 acres. I'm not against the little old fellow and his wife with a 1000 acre farm in CRP trying to make their retirement comfortable, but you wouldn't believe the people I have met that think of themselves as little old mom and pop. 
I would like to limit the number of outfitters and guides to what it is now, and let attrition bring it down to 100 outfitter license and 400 guides for the entire state. Then limit the amount of land they can lease. Right now they lease twice the land they can ever get to. I think they rent more than they need to force people to use them. They don't need that much, but if people have no access they must turn to them. 
Then I would like to see the number of hunters set by the spring waterfowl survey, combined with water conditions, and nesting habitat conditions. This would be a little cumbersome because the number of license wouldn't be known until mid July. It would be based on production, and habitat left available in the fall for feeding, resting, and staging for the migration. One year it may allow 30,000 nonresidents, the next 20,000 and so on. 
I don't think there is anyone who wants to see nonresidents banned, or even the numbers reduced drastically, they just don't want to stress the waterfowl, or push them from the state prematurely. They are going to leave early anyway this far up north, so it is even more important to control the pressure. We do need more waterfowl rest areas. 
The hunter pressure concept will not hurt those who have a genuine concern for wildlife. It will provide a better experience for those who do hunt here, resident or non resident. The only people that will feel restricted are those who think this is a place to come kill something every year. The resource should not take a back seat to the need to kill something. 
I fully respect the states where I elk hunt. Even though I only hunt public land (federal land that I own as much as those people in Montana) I still respect their decision to restrict me. They pay for game management, the elk often winter on private land, and I simply pay $640 for my license. If your from Montana thanks for the opportunity, and thanks for not letting it become a free for all and everyone gets a license simply for the cost of license, the gas I use, and the groceries I eat.


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## Old Hunter

shae 1986 It is your attitude that creates ill feelings between residents and nonresidents. You seem to think that because you inherited some land in North Dakota and you pay taxes on it you should have the same rights as residents. You give this impression by saying that you should be able to hunt the week that is reserved for residents of North Dakota. You also state that you should not have to pick the 2 weeks in which to hunt. This type of arrogance creates the problems. As many of us say; If you want resident rights move here if not be happy with what we give you.


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## KYUSS

I dont know what the best solution would be. I live & hunt in the S.E. part of the state. It was a BIG differance from last weekend compared to this weekend. Last weekend out hunting I would hear a couple of shots now and than. This weekend it sounded like a dang war at times. Maybe it is just the area I hunt but if the rest of the states local ducks are taking the same pounding day in and day out than something needs to change.


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## Plainsman

KYUSS said:


> I dont know what the best solution would be. I live & hunt in the S.E. part of the state. It was a BIG differance from last weekend compared to this weekend. Last weekend out hunting I would hear a couple of shots now and than. This weekend it sounded like a dang war at times. Maybe it is just the area I hunt but if the rest of the states local ducks are taking the same pounding day in and day out than something needs to change.


Kyuss
The area of the state called the Missouri Coteau gets double the pressure you witnessed. Your right something needs to change. North of New Rockford today I seen more nonresident than resident. My greatest fear is the number of resident hunters will go down. If it goes down here it is going down everywhere. If it goes to far ----- number of hunters goes down, political clout goes down.


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## Dick Monson

So how did your legislators vote last time? 

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/scorecard2005.php

They don't know what you want unless you tell them.


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## shae1986

My attitude is wrong? No, i believe it is not. The fact that there is a restriction, to shoot pheasants in ND is wrong. You know what i wasn't really mad about any of this until i read that post right there. I am going to call my legislative today actually in about 3 hours because thats when im done with class and say how its time to do something back. GET OUR LAKES BACK. They are over run with NR.

Dont tell me my attitude is wrong. The number of pheasants this year are going to amazing, oh and i will use my two weeks and i will shoot all the pheasants that the law allows and this year if i see any residents out on MY LAND THAT IS POSTED, i will just call the G&F officer and get this taken care of.

Yell at me, tell me my attitude is wrong, but now im just plain mad. But to me i got this all planned out. When i am done with college i will live in ND, will i be mad at NR, no, dont care, i really dont care that NR fish nexted to me in the lakes, its PUBLIC, its good for our small town economy, something that ND has forgot about.


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## djleye

> The fact that there is a restriction, to shoot pheasants in ND is wrong.


And as soon as you are a resident then you will get a vote on changing this. Until then there is nothing that you can do about it!!


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## Field Hunter

Why do you post the land when you are only here for 2-4 weeks a year? Do you hunt PLOTS when you are here? Do you hunt on land that others do not post when you are here....Great attitude.

Here's an idea for you.....POST the Land tight and don't allow anyone to hunt....By God, it's YOUR land! And heaven forbid anyone tells you what to do or asks to hunt.

Either Move back ot ND and get resident status or take we what is available.....


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## shae1986

Nope dont hunt PLOTS, dont hunt any of that public land stuff, i leave that for the city folk. Why do i post my land, bc since i cant be out there hunting why should i let residents that can hunt every weekend hunt my land. That to me makes no sence. PLOT land is a great thing ND did to allow some public hunting land, but as a non resident i cannot hunt that the first weekend anyway. And as for the idea of posting the land tight, oh dont worry, it will be posted as tight as possible.


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## djleye

:withstupid: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Great attitude. Lets piss off the residents even more so that they can vote on more restrictions. Nice compromise. 
"It's my ball and if you don't play nice I will take it and go home"!!!!


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## sotaman

Hey kind of looks like everyone is starting to get it now!!!

What is preventing us as sportsman from putting are heads together and working something out.

Dj what would it hurt for Shae to be able to hunt his land in the extra week. Because he is going to post it up and you as a resident aren't going to be able to hunt it anyway. And he pays tax on his land.

I guess it is starting to be all about greed isn't it


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## djleye

> I guess it is starting to be all about greed isn't it


Who is the greedy one in this equation????
What do you think would happen if hunting were opened up to any landowner Sota?? How fast do you think land would be selling here and how much of it would be open to you to hunt?? That absolutely makes no sense. Have a bunch of absentee landowners that you cannot get ahold of and want no one on their land. What good does that do for ND Sota?? Give me a break!!!! :eyeroll:


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## shae1986

Your calling me greedy for inheiriting land in ND and paying taxes on it and not being able to hunt it more than two weeks. Give me a break. Do i think i should pay resident rates, no, not even close, but i do think that i should be able to hunt the entire season. People buy lake cabins in MN, how would they like it if we gave them a two week season but still charged them to pay taxes. Look at it both ways and settle down a little and have a beer or you will start to look like that guy>>>>> :evil:


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## always_outdoors

I would love to see a 2 week only for ND's on MN lake cabins. That would be hilarious. I welcome it. Too many ND people spend their money too far east. They should be coming out to the ND lakes and going west instead of east.

Personally I find it funny that you all seem to conclude that it is the ND people that are raising your lake home prices. I am sure it isn't the countless vehicle leaving the twin cities between 2pm and 9pm on I-94 that keeps traffic on a Friday to 25 mph on a major Interstate.

Inheriting land shouldn't entitle you to resident privileges. You want your cake and eat it too, then move to the state. Otherwise, sell the land to a good farmer out here.


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## shae1986

I should state that even though our family owns the land it is rented to a close friend of the families and he gets to farm it at a very fair price, its not like i am just sitting on it doing nothing.


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## Crabby

:lol:

Ohhheeee! You run off Bert. You run off G/O. And still some folks with a brain give you boys the truth.

Keep trying. Maybe you'll get your own little-minded coffee clutch going when everyone is too tired for your tired old debate.

What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine. That's a nice mind-set for those who have not. And want it all.

Crabby


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## always_outdoors

> What's mine is mine, what's yours is mine.


Boy if that doesn't sum up the MN attitude, I am not sure what does.

Read your history books people. MN has been pushing us around since the beginning of time. They cheated us on our bushels, when we figured that out, they cheated us on the grade of the grain which in turn lead to the development of the ND State Mill, and the offset of that was the Bank of ND.

I hate to make this a MN versus ND war, but facts are facts and it wasn't Wisconsin trying to push a lawsuit.

They want their cake and eat it too. Been doing this to us for years. Time to wake up everyone.


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## shae1986

Oh yeah because ND wants to share everything right. Oh wait no they dont. If you did there wouldn't be any restrictions. As for us pushing for a lawsuit, yeah and we will again and again and soon we will win. Happened in Arizona and it will happen here. If not for ducks and pheasants then it will for turkeys. They will state it unconstitutional.

Away from that this is a debate that wont go away anytime soon and the sad part is that it will probably get worse before it gets better. You guys have some of the best Duck and Pheasant hunting in the midwest, and to put on restrictions blows my mind. As for the just move here statement, its a little old.


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## Plainsman

Would you guy stop telling shae to move here. There goes the neighborhood.


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## Bob Kellam

shae1986

This is probably not going to change your mind at all but I am going to type it anyway.

You are correct we have some of the best waterfowl and upland hunting in the country, and yes we know it very well. Should we lift the restrictions on duck hunting for NR that own land or have inherited land in ND? My answer would be no we should not because where would the line be drawn? with people that inherited land, with people that purchase land, or should we just open the borders and let everyone in that wants to hunt?

You seem disgusted that you can not hunt in ND on an unlimited basis because you have some ownership in property and pay taxes on it in ND.

Lets look at this outside of the box of your personal situation.

Say ND allows you unlimited hunting because you happen to own land and pay taxes. Now Joe blow buys a piece of ground and gets the same deal he did not inherit the land he just purchased it, how do you make the distinction of what type of ownership constitutes unlimited hunting. How much land is required to to meet the criteria? Ownership is ownership. How can the legislation be written to not discriminate against a purchaser in lieu of an inheritor?

Next lets look at the future of the result of said legislation, can you see that it will accelerate the purchases of land and when will the saturation point be obtained where the states resources will be diminished to the point of being a benefit to only those that own the land. This would be taking a big step backward to the medieval times where all of the wildlife was owned by the kings and royalty and the common person was not allowed to hunt. It may be coming to that.

North Dakotas constitution has this section;
_*Section 27. Hunting, trapping, and fishing and the taking of game and fish are a valued part of our heritage and will be forever preserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good.*_

It says nothing about having the right to hunt private land, it says nothing about having the right to hunt. It does say " will be forever preserved for the people and managed by law and regulation for the public good"

which I read to mean that the tradition of hunting will be preserved for ND residents and managed for the good of ND residents.

Believe me I can see your point. There are just to many ambiguities in drafting a law to suit your needs that there would be chaos in the property ownership structure that would lead to resentment on both sides that would make today's debate seem pale in comparison.

You as a Non-resident landowner have the ability to hunt waterfowl, upland and deer amongst other species in ND. Upland you can purchase as many licenses as you wish and come as often as you want. If you own more than 160 acres you are entitled to a NR gratis deer tag, and waterfowl you are allowed to hunt 14 days. ND is not the most restrictive state for NR hunters but because we currently have the wildlife available everyone wants a piece of the action without regard to what the state has set for regulations. I am sure you will agree that North Dakota is not like Minnesota, Montana, South Dakota or any of the Prairie Provinces of Canada and vise versa. we each have our rules and regulations for resident and non-resident hunters, None of them to my knowledge have any provisions in the law that allow a NR landowner to hunt with the exact same privileges as a resident hunter.

Take Care
Bob


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## shae1986

Bob very well wrote and I understand everything you say. Now i know that i can get a landowner permit for deer, still $200 but from what i understand i am almost guarenteed a tag, but i live not far from fargo in MN so my deer hunting is not a problem.

I wish they would do something with land ownership in terms of acres with the other species too, will it happen, probably not and you guys will probably have to live with me living there even though some of you probably dont want me too. I understand that if they did ownership everyone would pay a premium to purchase a little chunck of land to say they should have ownership rights.

And your right you will not change my mind, exactly how i will not change any of yours. I still say your piece was very well written and thanks for sharing.


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## KYUSS

shae1986 said:


> You guys have some of the best Duck and Pheasant hunting in the midwest...
> 
> And we would like to keep it that way for everybody.


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## KYUSS

shae1986 said:


> As for us pushing for a lawsuit, yeah and we will again and again and soon we will win.
> 
> :eyeroll: Nice. MN trying to tell us how to manage our resources when they could not even manage their own. And no, you will not win. If its one thing we Nodaks dont like its being told what to do in our own backyard. The lawsuit did nothing but hurt the NR sportsman of MN. I know many landowners that will not let MN's hunt their land just because of the lawsuit. Like I said, we dont like being told what to do by outsiders. Is it right? No its not. Many decent NR's got screwd because of that idiot Hatch.
> 
> So go ahead and file your lawsuits. The restrictions will just get tighter and tighter.


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## DeltaBoy

gandergrinder said:


> Its a matter of respect for someone who helps you out and its a matter of paying your dues. Knowledge doesn't come free.


I think our tuition just went up 45%!

I grew up in W Central MN and have kicked many people off of our land who have welcomed themselves to our property... I didn't enjoy calling the Game Warden every single time I went out hunting! I learned at a very early age that people just don't care who's land it is, they're going hunt it if they want and take the risk.

What ever happend to ethics/values?


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## Bert

Ok...Cant take it anymore.

You guys say that what makes you special is the fact that you are a resident of the state. You justify living in a city and laying special claim to the private land out there by paying taxes.

Shae owns land out there, lives a few miles from Fargo, but on the Mn side. He pays taxes on that land. All this and those of you with less invested than he has feel ok with not giving him at least the same time to hunt that land as you get?

As an NR. His license should be higher than that of an N within reason but since the restrictions are driven largely by people who dont own land and of those who do own land probably dont live on that land (no different than Shea) I struggle with the logic.

I understand that your efforts are to stem the tidal wave of NR land grabbers but how has that been workin for you? People from out of state buy up that land and lease that land (all perfectly legal) and instead of getting in the game yourselves, you sit on the sidelines and cry poor me.

Thing is that regardless of how painful you try to make life for NR absentee landowners in ND, you are fighting a losing battle. People figured out a long time ago that when it boils down to owning land or trying to dictate what goes on on that land through legislation...the guy who owns the land still holds the cards.

Restrictions havent made a dent in the number of NR hunters have they? You may feel better about yourselves for making it tough on NRs but they keep on a comin every year anyway do they not?

You say "well, do you suggest that we just open the doors to everyone" and I say...what would be the difference? Just as many would come and spend the same amount of time.

I dont come anymore because of the principle of the restrictions and who drove them. You kept me out but you can bet your Fargo address that there were more than plenty to fill the void left by me.

I guess Id like to see some numbers regarding what restrictions have done to stem the tide of NR hunting pressure and land purchases.


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## Bob Kellam

*shae1986 Wrote*



> you guys will probably have to live with me living there even though some of you probably dont want me too.


I don't think most here want to keep you out of ND, There probably are some. The problem many of us have is the topic of this thread "the never ending debate"

It is a talk forum, but instead of talking about ND's hunting regulations we always seem to get into these monumental arguments because people that do not live in ND seem to think they should have a say in how the states wildlife is managed.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and a stated opinion that ND regulations are unfair toward any NR usually brings out the protectionist response of many life long ND residents._* "why should you have the same privileges as I do when I have lived here my entire life" *_

That statement is a contributor to the basis for many of the wildlife regulations that ND has in place that is current law in ND. Waterfowl is federally regulated which always brings the response that we all own the waterfowl, and we do, however, when the waterfowl is in ND it is managed by ND law with federal oversight which gives ND the right to manage as they see fit as long as the state regulations do not exceed the limits set forth by the federal guidelines. I know that I hate it when the subject is brought up because there is always going to be some very heated words exchanged and a resolution to the issue will not be found once the dust settles. The only thing accomplished is increased bitterness between hunters. This debate will continue until NR stop trying to get or thinking they deserve the same privileges as resident hunters, and until resident hunters quit blaming NR hunters for *ALL* of their hunting problems.

Bert

You gotta get a new gig man. Doing a search of your posts every one is the same.

Again how do you know that the people posting here are not ND landowners, Can you back up your statement? You like to pound your chest and try to make us feel sorry for you becuause in your eyes we have restricted poor Bert to the point that his "principals" have kicked in and he is a bigger man for it.

Prove to me that if we had unlimited/unrestricted waterfowl hunting by NR hunters that things would stay the same. Pretty simple Bert put up or shut up!!

:beer:

Bob


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## always_outdoors

Bert: I respectfully disagree. It is more than just about hunting. It is also about our out-migration AND most importantly protecting our farmers.

I am finishing a master's degree right now and already making plans for the Ph. D. If everything goes right, I should be 35 years old with a Ph. D and I will probably make no more than $40,000-42,000 per year with a Ph. D.

Now how much could I make in other states? I checked and right now my current position has a US average of right around $85,000 with a Masters degree and right at $100,000 for those in this position with a Ph.D.

If we are going to open up the flood gates, then it makes no sense for my family to endure the winters when we could move to a place where I could make almost 3 times more, could then turn around buy land in ND, and hunt when I wanted to.

If we open up the flood gates, you can bet the farm our out-migration numbers will climb even more. You can also bet the farm that many of our farmers will loose land for recreational purposes.

Opening up the flood gates only insures that the rich will hunt and the farmers will be driven off the land.

I stay here not because of the pay, but because of the hunting.


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## Eric Hustad

I'm waiting for the old NR fishing in MN to come up at anytime along with those Fargo people buying up the lake property and driving jet skis yada yada yada. Before that comes out I just have to say that I understand where people come from when they own land and are restricted because they live in another state. However that is what happens when you choose one state over another. Right or wrong there are restrictions in ND over out of state hunters and while frustrating for people out of state it tries to satisfy both people living here and those from another state. What were to happen if the hunting here went to hell would people still come????


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## KYUSS

Bert said:


> Shae owns land out there, lives a few miles from Fargo, but on the Mn side. He pays taxes on that land. All this and those of you with less invested than he has feel ok with not giving him at least the same time to hunt that land as you get?
> 
> Thats why he is called a non-resident hunter, not a non-taxpaying hunter. :wink:


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## Boonedog

I have heard the same thing from family and friends for years, who seem to always live in Fargo or GF about how much more money they could make if the just moved out of ND. And from this forum one would get the idea that if not for the hunting opportunties Fargo would soon empty out. If hunting opportunities are what are keeping people in the state, why do the counties in the state with some of the best hunting lose 25% of there population everytime the census is taken?


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## Bob Kellam

Boonedog



> If hunting opportunities are what are keeping people in the state, why do the counties in the state with some of the best hunting lose 25% of there population everytime the census is taken?


Many reasons. Aging population that moves to metro areas to retire, Out migration of the potential young farmers, Land access/pay hunting, the expense of starting up as a young farmer/rancher to name a few....

Hunting may not be the sole reason some people stay in ND but it is a contributing factor to many people. I am one of them.

Bob


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## Bert

Bob,

Dont you mean "say what Bob wants to hear...agree with Bob...or shut up"?

What am I supposed to "put up"?

I need a new gig? Each of my posts are the same? If that is grounds for termination, you might have 2 guys on this forum and you wont be one of them.

Still wish somebody could show me how the restrictions have made things better.

Hasnt it just got worse for pressure and lack of access?


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## Boonedog

Bob, you forgot about CRP, which though I like alot of what it has done for wildlife, has also taken a big toll on beginning farmers. When a farmer was ready to retire, instead of renting for selling land to another farmer or maybe a beginnig farmeer, the land went into CRP, which in the mid 80's when the program started was paying around double what rental rates were.


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## shae1986

Wow teh fact that ND is established only for hunting is amazing. And why would the farmers loose there land, its their land they dont have to sell it if they dont want too so im a little confused by that statement. Thats like saying that whenever someone moves out of a little town that they just knock the house down, which is also untrue.

Have i noticed a change since the NR restrictions when up, yeah, ive seen more Residents than NR at the hotels i stay at when i go, you know the peope, brand new vehicals, dogs to which the owners dont know the name, new over and under shotguns that have probably never been shot. Same old Same old in that regards. Now am i saying that all big city people dont know how to hunt, YES I AM, but of course i am just kidding.

I'd like to say this is my last post on this subject and after just reading that many of you are jumping for joy, but its probably not, it probably wont ever end, and that is the harsh reality of it. It wont end, it will get worse, and there will be more and more discussion on this subject, maybe to the point where NR are restricted to hunting only private lands, the way this is going i could see it happening. If that happens it would be a sad day for both sides.


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## Bob Kellam

Geez Bert, Take a deep breath, in through the nose out through the mouth :lol:



> What am I supposed to "put up"?


Numbers to Prove to me that if we had unlimited/unrestricted waterfowl hunting by NR hunters that wildlife and hunting would stay the same, improve or diminish.



> Still wish somebody could show me how the restrictions have made things better


How many are like you and quit coming to hunt? we only know of one, You... are things better because you quit hunting in ND??? IMO NO they are not, traditional hunting is getting lost in the technology clouds.

I can't prove to you that restrictions have done anything to make things better just as you can not prove to me that opening up the gates and allowing unlimited/unrestricted hunting wildlife will remain at status quo. and you can not prove to me that the people you are harping at are not landowners. Some are, I know that for a fact!! but you seem to always want to lump everyone into your little mold of one size fits all. You know as well as I do that the statistics specific to your question do not exist.

Bert you know better than to start with low blows like


> say what Bob wants to hear...agree with Bob...or shut up"?


 It has nothing to do with it. You seem to be the one that wants everyone to agree with you that ND residents, especially those from Fargo are the root of all of the evil that exists in the world of hunting, otherwise you would not keep mentioning it.

Me, Well I think ND should be able to create laws that benefit residents first and have the laws accepted by our guests that come to ND to hunt instead of the constant bi%&*ing that goes on because our neighbors don't like the laws that we have for them to follow.

If any of the statistics ever come to fruition and I get my hands on them, You will be the first person I send them to.

Take Care.

Bob


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## Bert

Bob,

Regarding who here owns land out there, lets do this...

OF ALL THE POSTERS WHO FREQUENT HOT TOPICS...SPEAK NOW IF YOU ACTUALLY OWN PRIVATE HUNTABLE LAND IN NORTH DAKOTA. Resident or Non.

(not grammas land or uncle Bobs land...your own hunting/farm land that you pay taxes on).
(a quarter acre lot in West Fago does not qualify)

Ill start.

I am a NR and I dont own any land in ND.


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## shae1986

Well everyone on here knows that we do.


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## barebackjack

To quote shaea:
"Oh yeah because ND wants to share everything right. Oh wait no they dont. If you did there wouldn't be any restrictions."

I think most nodakers are willing to share, within reason. We still have great hunting here, and would like to keep it, for residents as well as nonresidents to share. And to do this, there must be restrictions. Minnesota once had what we do, but they p*#%ed it down their legs. We WILL NOT allow that to happen in our state.
Im suprised people of mostly the same decent (scandanavian) dont understand where us nodakers are coming from. In typical norsky fashion we do not like being told what to do by outsiders, and you sotacrackers are outsiders.

Shaea, you say were all greedy and such, but you are the one sitting on posted land that is off limits to everyone basically, so you can use it several weeks, which in reality probably equates to several days, now in my book, thats the pot calling the kettle black.

Im a college student due to graduate with a BS degree in two months (fingers crossed). I could easily move out of this state and procur a $40,000+ a year job with my degree. But I will not, I will stay in north dakota and start at $25,000 a year. WHY?........the hunting, the people, the values, the way of life......the list is long, but the hunting is a priority for me. And I will be d#*ned if I will let the holier than thou g/o's and non-residents try to ruin this.

All you non-residents and guides out there, think of this........when you ruin this state, where will you go? So its not something that only affects residents, it will affect you as well.

You all scream bloody murder at every thing we try to do to regulate things. You scream about expensive licenses, but ND is still damn cheap when compared to most states. You scream about hunter caps, but you would be pretty ****** if thousands of non-residents flocked to your state in the same two week period and all congregated in the same areas. You complain about lake lot prices and jet skies all over your fishing lakes, yes, some are NDers, but I think you should look a little closer to home, perhaps to your southern twin city brethren.

We have given non-residents an inch in making North Dakota a freelance hunters dream, but of course, they want a mile.

Perhaps it has just been to good for to long. Change is coming gentlemen, and you may not like it.


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## shae1986

Your right we may not like but if ND does anything more to NR the economy of ND is going to suffer more to what it all ready has. We bring in a lot of revenue for ND as does ND for MN and htis is something that neither state can afford for loose. If we all dont agree on that then we have far bigger issues than NR restrictions.


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## barebackjack

I have never debated the fact that hunting and fishing bring many dollars to KEY AREAS. Devils lake for example makes a killing off hunters and fisherman. But there are many many areas of both states that dont make all that much off them.

I said it on the other post, and Ill say it here. The non-residents and g/o's seem to have the "buffalo days" mentality of "we'll never run out". Well we did, and if it keeps going in the direction its going, we'll run out again. Than we'll all be up you know what creek and most likely still fighting.


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## Chuck Smith

Bareback......

MN did have what ND has and yes it was pi$$ed away. But it was not because of hunting pressure or letting people hunt. It was the loss of habitat, draining of wetlands, tiling of cropland, etc.....all of these are HABITAT LOSS.

I think that ND and it's residents would do better by trying to keep the habitat than worry about NR vs R.

Chuck


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## barebackjack

Oh my god, its so simple. Ive just solved all our problems.

If you are a non-resident, and do not like the laws north dakota has made for you as a non-resident hunter, than STOP COMING!

And I, as a north dakota resident, will stop coming to your state if you pass a game and fish law that I do not like.

Crisis averted gentlemen.


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## barebackjack

Chuck,

And what did minnesota sportsman do collectively to stop that?

If you do some research, you will realize that North Dakota has programs, rules, and laws to (heres that dirty word again) RESTRICT some of that. Not all wetlands can be drained, there are stipulations on what ones can be drained, and tilling is really only big in the valley, which isnt good for anything but spuds and beets anyway :wink:  .

What did your DNR do for you? Why did they let that happen?

Our state has set aside lands to maintain or create habitat. They have provided funds for farmers to maintain or create habitat and public hunting lands. Sportmans organizations have created areas of habitat and created youth hunting areas, and public hunting areas. Now, we really didnt do all this for non-residents, but you too reap the benefits of it.

Some of you guys remind me of a child that is allowed to run loose for to long, than suddenly subjected to some form of discipline.


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## Bert

bareback

Who is "we"? You got a turd in your pocket?

At your age, taking credit for what ND has to offer is a joke. No more of a reality than me having a hand in tiling Mn.

Those who post here are not the reason for NDs ducks. The geography of the state and the farming practices are why the birds are there.


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## Bob Kellam

> Those who post here are not the reason for NDs ducks. The geography of the state and the farming practices are why the birds are there.


How do you know that Bert? Is that fact or speculation?

Bob


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## ALLSUNND

barebackjack said:


> Chuck,
> 
> Some of you guys remind me of a child that is allowed to run loose for to long, than suddenly subjected to some form of discipline.


Are you talking about the ND freelance hunters??????????


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## Eric Hustad

I'm not the reason for ND's ducks??? I live in ND and I thought I was responsible for the ducks in ND. I mean it can't be because of potholes and 12+ years of wet weather, or the fact that we have great landowners who care about wildlife. Oh I own a half acre of land in ND.......


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## shae1986

Jeeze i dont know what are MN DNR did for us. Oh they introduced the wild turkey which has taken off at a rate that is pretty much unbelieveable. Brought back the pheasants to Southern Minnesota, even though it wont be even close to that of ND it is getting better, and lets not hear the well why dont you just go hunt those birds and stay out of our state, dont want to hear it please. Our MN DNR, up in my region, has brought back the Prairie Chicken where i will see groups of 40 birds. We have the largest local goose population in teh United States. We have many refuges set up for roosting waterfowl so they cannot be busted. And the sad part is that the DNR allowed our deer population to get over populated, but currently they are working on that. DNR established a 4 duck limit down from 6.

You make it sound like our state does nothing. So before you challange me to anything you better know for sure that i wont find anything, which is hard since i go to a school that is known for it Wildlife Management Program.


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## Eric Hustad

Is that what your going to school for??


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## always_outdoors

Shae: Here is what MN did for you.

MN DNR Statistics
2004: surveyed about 2/3 of the state based on the map they provided found average of 101.9 pheasants per 100 miles. The state recorded a harvest of pheasants at right around 400,000.

1958: that same survey found 425 pheasants per 100 miles and recorded the harvest of pheasants at right around 1,550,000.

I think if you did some digging, waterfowl numbers probably follow the same trend.

What was that about Wildlife Management??? Maybe they were spending too much time on the turkeys??? seems the MN sportsmen and women forgot about how good it really was over there and never protected it. Now we are trying to protect it here for the good of R's and NR's and you chastise us for it. :eyeroll:


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## shae1986

Your looking at current numbers, look at what they were about 7-8 years ago, yes our DNR has had some problems, but yours has too. Our numbers have been going up and up in mainly all wildlife, i just wish that we could work on our duck numbers, but our goose numbers are amazing. Also we have a little harder time with our weather than you have, pheasants are not native and have a hard time surviving our winters when farmers take out the habitat. But we are on the incline and our fisheries are AMAZING, even though i like going to Devils Lake once a year.

No i am going to school dealin in Ag, i started in Wildlife and decided that i didn't what to pursue that.


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## shae1986

Well after writing all my replies i have deicided to stop discussing on this forum. I realize that it doesn't matter what i say, im not going to change your minds, your not going to change mine, its just like marketing, once someones mind is made up its so difficult to change.

Am i happy to be from small town MN, Yes, I love it. Would i like to live in North Dakota, Yes i love it out there. Do i wish i could hunt both, of course, who doesn't, do i know thats not going to happen, yes i do.

I decided i am done replying becuase of the fact that when all i do is think about this most of the day, it got to serious. I will still look at it see what people have to say but unless i think my opionion needs to be heard i will not be talking. If any of you have sometihng important to tell me just PM me and i will be happy to respond. Do i have bad feeling to any of you on here, of course not. Its all opionon, i do believe that this would be even more fun if we got together face to face to discuss this, but since we live all over that isn't possible.

Thanks for everyones input and opionion and to show that neither of our states are even close to perfect.

A. Shae


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## DJRooster

We like to share our state and we like to write our regulations to the benefit of all groups. I think our regulations speak strongly in that regards. Your more than welcome and just because people don't agree with your views doesn't mean that you are not a valuable part of these forums. Hell if that was the case either Bob or I would have to abandon the political forum! And that ain't going to happen!! Lighten up and we appreciate your passion!!


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## barebackjack

Pheasants also do not do to well in our state either shaea. In fact, where I grew up, we release pheasants with a release/harvest mentality. Only in the last few winters have they survived easily and in any great numbers.

You talk of turkeys, pheasants, deer, fish, blah blah blah. But the debate here is over NON-RESIDENT WATERFOWLERS and waterfowl numbers. I dont care if you have a million billion deer or if your dog can beat up my dog. The debate was over waterfowl. And if you have it so good there, why do so many of you come over here?

Sure, our region is pre-suited to producing ducks. But, it wouldnt if we raped the land like other states.


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## Chuck Smith

Bare......I was not around or was able to vote.

But the $$$ drove what happened in MN and lack of Federal Programs. CRP was all over my neck of the words 10 years ago....now you hardly see any. Why crop prices went up and federal programs payments went down. I am not blaming this on federal programs or anything like that......But ND has an abondance of CRP, Wetlands, etc. This is all habitat that is available for breeding, nesting, and just good cover.

Now my question for you.....HOW IS ELIMINATING/RESTRICTING THE NR HUNTER GOING TO HELP WITH HABITAT???

Chuck


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## djleye

> (no different than Shea)


Sorry Bert, Wrong again........We are RESIDENTS!!!! He is not! Very simple. Lots of difference there, actually tons!!!!!!


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## nodakoutdoors.com

> I decided i am done replying becuase of the fact that when all i do is think about this most of the day, it got too serious.


We've all been there buddy, we've all been there. Remember this is a hot topics forum and this issue is about as HOT as there is here. Take these discussions as a grain of salt, and the key is to help find a solution.


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## Bert

dljeye

How so?


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## Bert

It is a fact Bob. It is like a guy from Mpls claiming that he is the reason that there are tons of deer in Ot. County simply because he buys a hunting license and has blue plates and is a member of MDHA.

It is geography habitat and weather for both ducks and deer.


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## KYUSS

shae1986 said:


> Your right we may not like but if ND does anything more to NR the economy of ND is going to suffer more to what it all ready has. We bring in a lot of revenue for ND as does ND for MN and htis is something that neither state can afford for loose. If we all dont agree on that then we have far bigger issues than NR restrictions.


We didnt have your revenue during the drought of the 80's and early 90's and we made it just fine. I'm sick if the ones on here that wave money in front of our face like we wouldnt survive with out it. :roll:

You think our restrictions are not fair? What if ND filed a lawsuit against MN so people from ND could put out their permanent fish house's all winter long. Hmmm. I wonder how that would go over with MN's.


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## djleye

> dljeye
> 
> How so?


We live here, he doesn't. Not that tough. The rules say that he cannot hunt the same as a resident. I have family that owns land in MN. Should I get the in state discount when I hunt there?? I don't and I have never asked for it. What is so tough to understand about that. Play by the rules or don't play at all.


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## Bob Kellam

Bert

Whatever :roll: You don't have a clue what some of us have done to improve habitat, do you think you are the only one in the region that has done anything? Quit the generalization. Everyone here does not fit into your view of the outdoor world.

:beer:

Bob


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## shae1986

Ok i have to say something and that is that i didn't come on here for waterfowl, i shoot lots of birds in MN and thats not the issue mine was for pheasants but whatever

The second is that ND has a program in place that is keeping its habitat at a premium, and the people that farm my land know that even if the cattail sloughs dry up i still dont want them pushing for them to be removed. I want all the habitat possible so that if another harsh winter comes along then more birds will survive. I say great job to ND Fish and Game to get your populations back to somewhat normal while many other states are having problems.


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## Bert

Dljeye?

Thats tons?

He owns land out there, you have relatives with land over here. Big difference.

Bob. Of course some of you have done stuff with habitat. I have specified in lots of my posts that it doesnt include all of you. I believe that you are not the norm here for posters. If I am incorrect, where are all the people like you who do all of this wonderful stuff to protect the resource? Speak up fellas. If I am way off base and the majority...heck even half of you are landowning residents, enlighten me.

I asked for everyone who is a regular on HT to state if they are landowners or not and who responded? Me, Shea and Dljeye.

You own land, who else does? Owns land, pays taxes and does anything for habitat in that state at that level.

What I have done over here doesnt factor into anything other than it can be done.


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## Chuck Smith

Bert....

I know what you are saying...but there is a big difference from being a R and NR. They R has a vote! That is the main difference.

But what bert is trying to get across is that the guy living in big city ND does not have anything to do with the land in outstate ND unless he owns it. Were as shae a NR who owns land in ND (he has it titled in his name and pays the taxes) has more to do with how that land is run/managed and how it produces wildlife than a R from a big city.

It is also like the NR or R from a big city saying that thier money makes the small towns survive. It does not it is the people living in the small towns that make it happen.

So the point bert is trying to make is that the LAND OWNERS should have more of a say in hunting regulations than your average joe living in an apartment in Fargo with a trailer full of decoys.

I agree and disagree with that point.


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## KYUSS

Chuck Smith said:


> It is also like the NR or R from a big city saying that thier money makes the small towns survive. It does not it is the people living in the small towns that make it happen.


Correct!!! I live in a small town in ND with great waterfowl and pheasent hunting and when we hear NR's saying that we need their money it's like a slap in the face, and we dont like being slapped in the face. :******:


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## djleye

> He owns land out there, you have relatives with land over here. Big difference.


What is the difference?? My wifes family owns the land. Do you know for a fact if it is Shea that owns the land, or his family or who it is?? I really don't think it matters, family is family. I should get a resident tag by your reasoning.

Again Bert, I will add that if you think that only land owners can do anything to improve upon habitat then you are dead wrong. There are many things that can be done for wildlife and habitat that don't need to be done on your own land.


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## Bob Kellam

Why should people who own land or have family owned land have more say in hunting regulations?

Isn't Democracy defined;

_government by the people; especially : rule of the majority _

Do we live in a Repiublic form of government where we select representatives by our votes to carry our our message and vote in accordance with our wishes.

Unless you are trying to say that landowners should not be subject to the legislative process??

BTW I currently live in an apartment and I do have a decoy or two. oke:

Bob


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## Chuck Smith

Djleye.....

Shea has stated he owns the land and pays the taxes on it. That is a huge difference than you have a realitive who owns land.

Bob...

I totally agree with you. This country was founded on democracy. But I don't think that the farmers in the outstate are getting a fair representative on this subject on this forum. I wish some would pipe in with thier ideas, if they can. I know it is hard since it is harvest time and they have different priorities right now. :wink:

- Chuck


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## shae1986

Just becuase i own the land doesn't mean i should have a say in how the state is run. I dont live there why should i get to vote.


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## djleye

So, Should ny brother-in-law, who does own land in MN get a resident tag there even though his primary residence is in ND?? I say he shouldn't but by your logic, he should!!! He farms the land himself, owns it, and buys a NR tag in MN!!! Figure that one out and then tell me why that is different than what ND does!!!


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## Bert

If your brother in law is a NR in Mn but owns land here, by all means he should get resident privalages on his land.


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## Bert

Oh, the difference is only in the cost of the license for NRs. The time, limit...everything else is the same for R and NR alike.


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## Bert

Oh,

And where is that long list of posters here who do all these great and wonderful things for ducks beyond what a zillion other non landowning duck hunters do all across the country?

So far, I havent seen it. Unless, it appears, I can only assume that most here are no different than the NRs they want to see restricted on land that they do not own.


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## djleye

> If your brother in law is a NR in Mn but owns land here, by all means he should get resident privalages on his land.


Nope, wrong again. He is a non-resident Bert. I don't think he should get any special consideration. There is enough land being bought up in MN and that would only add to the problems.

Maybe there are people that don't feel they need to broadcast it to the world what they do for wildlife. Maybe they do it for the birds/big game, and to make themselves feel better. They don't feel the need to answer to others on what they do.


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## Chuck Smith

djleye....

The point bert is making is that the only restrictions on a NR land owner in MN is that they pay more for a lisc. That is it!

The NR land owner in ND does not get to hunt the first week of ducks, if thier land is in PLOTS they can not hunt it the opener of phesants season. The NR land owner in ND only gets to hunt two weeks a year, not the entire season.

chuck


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## djleye

I understand what he is saying, I am saying that I don't believe you should get any break on cost or on times unless you are a resident. Owning land would open a hornets nest here and there.


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## Bert

Well Dljeye...

Land being bought up is land that is already owned by someone. I bought some myself. It was off limits to the public before I bought it and it is off limits now. If your bro in law has some land here, he should be able to hunt it like a res. So should his kids and their kids as long as it is in the family. You? No way. Cripes you arent even a blood relative.

Somebody (I think it was Brokeback or bareback...somthing like that) was talking about how ND has laws against drainage. Well so does Mn.

Those laws came into play at about the same time in history. The thing is that it was about 20 years too late for Mn. and again, how did you have a hand in that?

Where are they? The people of Nodak who made it what it is? Perhaps it is the majority of people who live in the state but are just too dam shy to put it up here.

I get accused of making general statements here because of what I read and where it is coming from. What else do I have to go on? You guys base your opinions on what you see and read. Why should I be any different?

Where are all of these city people who have so much invested in why Nodak is what it is and how do they maintain that level of quality due to anything they personally do?

You dont have to blow your horn. I wasnt blowing mine by letting the world know what I did. I simply got sick up and fed with people here saying "well look what YOU guys did to your state" and said..."screw you, I did somthing". If the majority of posters here on HT fall into that catagory, my apologies and kudos to you. If not, then I guess I am right.

What are the "lots of things" that can be done that take the place of 100 acres of wetlands and CRP? Just curious.

Donating to DU? Yeah, you and every other Tom Dick and Harry. Most of the doctors and bankers and lawyers in this country are card carrying DU memebers but they are also the ones who hire the guides and lease the land and buy the land.

Buying a duck stamp? Again...not uncommon for duck hunters.

Throwing some bales for a guy in July so you get on his good side come October? Not unheard of.

Where are all of these people who have done so much to make Nodak what it is? Post up boys. Bob asks me for numbers and facts which I cannot come up with. If you guys are all so righteous, is it too much to ask of you to just explain to simple old Bert how you really factor into the waterfowl equation other than having the ability to vote?

I know that Bob K. has some land out there. Where are the rest of you so that I dont have to keep throwing a blanket statement.

As far as that goes...

I keep getting beat up for using "Fargo and GF" as the basis for who writes what here. Well, where are y-all from? Lets have a show of keyboarded hands here. Who are the residents here...who are vocal and are from somewhere other than Fargo or GF or some other city out there?
about 80% of you have a Fargo or GF or other city listed with your name. Others who say list "the outdoors or ND or whatever that is vague and ambiguous" I assume are from a city. Tell me if Im wrong. I can handle being wrong if I have the information and dont read it correctly.

State your name, (or handle) and let me know how you are personally responsible for the water in the Couteau region. Lemme know how you had some big hand hand in pushing for CRP. Lemme know how you fixed it with God that it would be wetter than all get out for the last dozen years. Lemme know how much grain you planted and paid for and harvested in the fields you all take so much pride in hunting. Lemme know how you are somehow responsible for ND being the epicenter of a natural flyway that has existed for eons.

I am not being a wise guy, just curious. By the way...by being a Minnesota resident, I invented lakes and walleyes and pine trees. (ok...that was a wise crack)

We did this and we did that... is like being 45 years old and saying "we won" when the HS basketball team pulls one out of the fire.


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## Plainsman

Bert your always talking about what the landowner does for waterfowl and saying the city guy does nothing. I got a real news flash for you. If the city guy didn't pay his taxes that paid for a government program that paid the landowner to do something for habitat improvement nothing would get done. They would plow from the centerline of highway to centerline of highway, and they often do. Sometimes it is reported and they have to repair the section right of way, and sometimes they even have to repair roads.

Wildlife doesn't live because of agriculture, in most cases it lives in spite of it. What did ducks eat before the white man turned the prairie upside down? Your giving yourself and landowners way to much credit.

Now, your going to cry I am picking on landowners, and I will fully admit some do improve a small portion of their land. Most are worried about survival and plow every inch they can. Good or bad it is being done. That is why I am more willing to pay for habitat improvement than support prices to tear up more habitat. If the price goes up the prairie that is left gets turned over. Remember PIC (payment in kind)? I do, some states had record crop production. Why? Every farmer thought production would go down, so they enrolled their crop acres, then went out and tore up every inch of prairie they had.

In no way does a non resident landowner need to be treated better than any other non resident. Your attempting to shaft your neighbor more than us residents. Those that think they will win in court are out of their mind. It's very evident some think we are here to serve them.

All the whiners are accomplishing is showcasing their disdain for North Dakota residents and helping those that are riding the fence make up their mind. In our favor I might add. Your not getting sympathy, your creating resistance. Thanks.


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## Bert

Plainsman...

Ok...just how do you do pay for that habitat. Yourself. Not just you and every other frickin taxpayer in the country and then you claim first dibs on land you dont own any more than me.

Got a news flash for you...what the city guy in north dakota pays in taxes which goes to government programs for farmers in north dakota are the same as what the guy in Mn pays in taxes which go to those programs in north dakota. Hell I probably pay more federal taxes than you do.

CRP and swampbuster and all the other federal programs are paid for by people all over the country.

Show me the special, resident state tax which goes towards farm programs in Nodak. If there is such a thing, I apologize. I cant imagine what that would be though as I know I dont pay one like that in Minnesota.

You are telling me that without the city hunter, there would be no ducks in NoDak? Gimme a break.

God made the potholes and the farmer plants the grain in the fields youall love to hunt so much.

Before the whiteman came what did ducks eat? Well I can tell you right now that it sure wasnt corn or wheat or barley or any other crop which you guys seem to think is the only respectable place to hunt waterfowl.

I would love to watch you guys set up your bigfoots in 100 acres of big bluestem which was taller than your head and see how many geese and ducks you end up with.

This could go on forever except for the fact that you guys are dang loud when it comes to claiming resdidency but really really quiet when it comes to explaining how your residency in a city over there makes you any more responsible for the ducks than me being a resident over here.

Where are all of you guys? Im sitting right here. If all of you have more invested than me other than a vote, lay it on me. Im a big boy. Im not going to apologize for drawing the conclusions that I have given the info that I have to date. But I will surely say..."yup, you were right, the majority of posters here who push for NR restrictions are really sweating blood to make sure that ducks have a place to eat and rest in Nodak. All you have to do is tell me where that land you own is and how much water you have protected and how much of the land is in CRP. Simple as that.

Your taxes? You tell me how much of the taxes that you pay in "City" North Dakota go towards generating the waterfowl that you all feel so personally responsible for. Spell it out for me. To quote Bob. "Put up or shut up".

If it is all of you, I apologize. If it is most of you, I am impressed. If it is some of you, shame on the rest of you. If it is the one or two...no...I can only think of Bob as having done somthing in that direction... then you guys need a reality check.

Post up you internet studs. Beat me up for what I have done over here, and stay on and... out of your hair. Tell me how you factor into the equation in your own state.


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## Plainsman

You need to read closer Bert. I didn't say any of us did more than people from other states. What I was getting at was the landowner thing. They are not the savior of wildlife you make them out to be. Of course that's your way of saying you do more. What I am saying is I and every other taxpayer in this nation pay taxes that pay for agriculture programs. Some are programs that are conservation oriented, and some are support prices, which unintentionally are many times anti habitat.

I'm not telling you that without the city taxpayer there wouldn't be any ducks, I am telling you that they are not here because of agriculture. My point was that there were ducks here before agriculture, not that Big Bluestem is better habitat than grain stubble for feeding and hunting. You will wait a long time to see me set up decoys Bert. I went early goose hunting, but have no plans for duck hunting. In the past 20 years I have duck hunted three years. I am in this debate because anyone with two functional brain cells should know that it will be a fight for the upland game after waterfowl, deer after that, and once you have raped the state some of these people who want to exploit it now will simply move on.

You know Bert you're a bright guy, I can only assume you read into this because you wouldn't have an argument otherwise. Living in a city here doesn't give anyone more or less rights than people anywhere else. Being a resident of North Dakota gives us more rights over here than residents of other states.

I remember watching this science fiction space movie a few years ago. It was about aliens that moved from planet to planet. They would decimate the resources of a planet then move on. That is sort of what is happening here. Farming to the road center and draining all the wetlands destroyed waterfowl habitat in much of the Prairie Pothole Region. Now those states that could not stop their landowners from raping their resources want to come here. That's ok, but in limited numbers. I would guess many sportsmen did everything they could to preserve some habitat in their home states. Luckily we have some marginal land that it doesn't pay to rip, rape, and run, so a little bit of habitat will survive here.

If the landowners you talk about want total control, then don't take any tax money. Also, don't try to stop cheaper food from coming in from Canada, Australia, Mexico, Brazil, Chile, and on and on. We are a society that depend on each other. Oh, ya, and don't let your carcinogenic chemicals get into the city. Farmers will go down the tubes without us, and sportsmen need them. Whatever happened to being socially responsible to each other.

At least for a while we are still a democracy, and the people of North Dakota will decide what happens with the number of non resident hunters. If your looking for a chunk of real-estate where you can dictate, good luck, but I doubt this will ever become Bertland.


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## sotaman

djleye said:


> I guess it is starting to be all about greed isn't it
> 
> 
> 
> Who is the greedy one in this equation????
> What do you think would happen if hunting were opened up to any landowner Sota?? How fast do you think land would be selling here and how much of it would be open to you to hunt?? That absolutely makes no sense. Have a bunch of absentee landowners that you cannot get ahold of and want no one on their land. What good does that do for ND Sota?? Give me a break!!!! :eyeroll:
Click to expand...

What is preventing us as sportsman from putting are heads together and working something out.

Sorry it took me so long to respond DJ. I am more concerned with this question then the one you addressed.

Everyone by now knows I am not from ND. And for the record I love it here. But I am confused about something how come landowners are allowed gratis tags. Do they or do they not allow them for non resident landowners. I might be wrong but I think they do. So what I am saying about Shaes land whats the difference. It is his land why can't he have a gratis tag for his land? That is what I am asking nothing more nothing less.


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## Bob Kellam

Sota

He can have a gratis tag for deer. It is not a true gratis the fee is $200.00 but it is pretty much a guaranteed license for a Buck either white tail or muley depending on the unit.

Bob


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## sotaman

Thanks Bob for the info.

Boy this kind of blew up. Where is Ryan when you need him people atatcking others "sotacrackers are outsiders." Hey Ryan I take offense.. Got to bust your chops since you have been all over me like white on rice.

See I started this thread because I know there are hard feelings. And I think people have every right to have hard feelings, about what they once had. But there becomes a time when we have to take a step back and know that we are running out of fingers to stop the dam from leaking. There might become a time when a ND might have to depend on the sotacrackers or other NR. What then have there been to many bridges burned. I know someone will get on here and say who cares what bridges have been burned. Save your breath.. What can we as SPORTSMAN on this side of the Red or the other do to make this right. How do we take the pressure off of the birds and make it fair for all involved? With that I feel a resident should have added perks let me clear that up.

Is the problem land access? To much pressure? Could this be fixed by a zone or a quota for NR? Or could it be fixed by making ND a posted state so people aren't setting up on eachother? I don't know thats what I want to know. I don't care if a local or sotacracker ****** in your weaties one time it happens get over it. But what can we do to prevent this from happining over and over again.


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## R y a n

sotaman said:


> Thanks Bob for the info.
> 
> Boy this kind of blew up. Where is Ryan when you need him people atatcking others "sotacrackers are outsiders." Hey Ryan I take offense.. Got to bust your chops since you have been all over me like white on rice.


????? :huh: This came out of left field....

The discussion has been a back and forth discussion with points and counterpoints. Passion from both sides trying to show why a certain side has the position it does....

Did I miss someone attacking you?

Ryan


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## KYUSS

Look at the bright side. If you are a NR that owns land in ND then you will always have a place to hunt.

A while back my wife was dead set on living in MN. We were looking for houses and every house she found was in MN. I told her no every time and every time she would ask why and every time my answer would be the same. "Because I love to hunt waterfowl and ND is whare I want to hunt".

Its so simple, black and white, no matter what state you are from residents have less restrictions than NR's. Not just ND, but every state. The thing is is that ND offers some of the best hunting in the country and everybody wants a piece of the pie. I wish that I could put my permanent fish house out all winter in MN but I cant because in MN I'm a NR. Thats the breaks.

I do own a few acres of land in MN that I pay taxes on. It's not much but it's something. And even though I own a little chunk of land in MN I would never expect special rights for hunting. Why? Because I dont live there. I am not a resident of MN so why would I expect Resident hunting rights.

For the NR's that do own land in ND be thankfull that you have that land (which I'm sure you are). No matter what you will always have a place to hunt.


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## deacon

Don' t you guys have a job. oke:

Does your boss :******: know you are on the internet all day.


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## djleye

> This could go on forever except for the fact that you guys are dang loud when it comes to claiming resdidency but really really quiet when it comes to explaining how your residency in a city over there makes you any more responsible for the ducks than me being a resident over here.


Bert, We are loud about residency and proud about residency. I have buddies that I went to graduate school in Chicago with. They always kid me about being from ND and asking if we have running water, etc yet. I just have to smile and laugh on the inside because I really cannot imagine trying to raise a family anywhere else.
SHow me one post where someone said that they are more responsible for ducks than you are. You are putting words in our mouths to try and prove your point. You are arguing something that no one is arguing about. No one said that they were more resonsible for the ducks. We just get our few restrictions placed on non-residents (like any other state does, MN included) so we have a slight advantage over you. Get over it. That is the way it is no matter what state you hunt. The residents get the advantage. How are you more responsible for the Elk in MN than I am??? Same argument, different animal and I don't get second crack, hell, I don't get any crack at them!!!! Get over it and move on.


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## barebackjack

So even though some of you NR's own land in ND you believe you should be treated as a resident? You are a landowner, not a resident.

I just dont understand your logic here. Bert, Shae, PM me, enlighten me to your argument please.


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## DJRooster

When I read these discussions it is a reflection of today's society. There are have's and have nots. Those that have either have earned it or perhaps were born into it or got lucky and got it. Those that do not have it either don't deserve it, or haven't worked hard enough to get it or have not been as lucky as those that have it. Many times those that do not have it like to portray themselves as victims, or blame it on someone else or change the story until it makes them look much better than they really are. When I read this same old, same old - this is the pattern that keeps repeating itself. The rules and regulations for this game are written to be fair for all and so if you think you are somehow a victim all the time then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your reality.


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## KEN W

DJRooster said:


> When I read these discussions it is a reflection of today's society. There are have's and have nots. Those that have either have earned it or perhaps were born into it or got lucky and got it. Those that do not have it either don't deserve it, or haven't worked hard enough to get it or have not been as lucky as those that have it. Many times those that do not have it like to portray themselves as victims, or blame it on someone else or change the story until it makes them look much better than they really are. When I read this same old, same old - this is the pattern that keeps repeating itself. The rules and regulations for this game are written to be fair for all and so if you think you are somehow a victim all the time then perhaps you need to re-evaluate your reality.


You're right and if I don't have yours......I want that too!!!!


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## DJRooster

You are right, for I am a rich man for I have a lot that I am thankful for but money it is not!


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## sotaman

R y a n said:


> sotaman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Bob for the info.
> 
> Boy this kind of blew up. Where is Ryan when you need him people atatcking others "sotacrackers are outsiders." Hey Ryan I take offense.. Got to bust your chops since you have been all over me like white on rice.
> 
> 
> 
> ????? :huh: This came out of left field....
> 
> The discussion has been a back and forth discussion with points and counterpoints. Passion from both sides trying to show why a certain side has the position it does....
> 
> Did I miss someone attacking you?
> 
> Ryan
Click to expand...

I guess you are just slipping or you don't care unless it has sotaman on it..


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## Plainsman

> I guess you are just slipping or you don't care unless it has sotaman on it..


GEEEshhhhh soda cry me a river. Ken W asked a civil question. I also didn't see where anyone attacked you. Are you sure it wasn't your imagination? If your not going to explain it how can Ken do anything to please you?


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## Gohon

I think he is talking about this..........



> barebackjack wrote:
> 
> In typical norsky fashion we do not like being told what to do by outsiders, and you sotacrackers are outsiders


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## Bert

My question is answered and my point is driven home.

When I asked which of you had some real money invested in real real estate and did something above and beyond what any other taxpayer/duckhunter in the country does for the birds of Nodak, nobody said boo execpt for Bob (who I know owns land) and dljeye who doesnt (but is a man) and shea who does... and me who doesnt.

So. The next time somebody asks me for "proof" that the city res. doesnt do more for the water birds than the NR who pays Fed taxes and belongs to DU and Delta and buys his stamps...

You can all look back here and say...Bert was right.

I have no qualms with you guys getting a cheaper license. The first shot at tax doller land (state...and federal) but the private land should be up to the landowner and the feds...not you.

Heck, you could have the whole of Govt. land to yourselves but you wouldn't be happy. The land that you guys are really concerned about is private land. We are not talking fish or pheasants here. Those critters don't migrate and dont belong to everyone.

Nobody here seems to care about the public land. It is the private "freelancing land" that is the bone of contention.

You want a cap? Push a cap. All I see here (dljeye) is a justification of restrictions.

Once and a while I see a post like "Do we need a cap in Nodak?" Of course you do. Make it happen! If you can't because of politics then you know where Minners like me are coming from.

I say that it (a cap) makes more sense than jacking prices and limiting time. But who am I?

They did it in SoDak and nobody is complaining. At least not here. The restrictions were easy. I could give you the names of 20 guys who hate the restrictions but could live with a cap.

You give me a licesne at a reasonable price for a full season every 2 or 3 years and I will be back there. What you are running into though is a little taste of Minnesota politics. If you jack the prices, you make more money because people still come. If you limit the time, people still come and the Rs feel vindicated because the NRs, at least got kicked in the nuts somehow.

Were it about what is best for the birds regarding pressue, there would be a cap. Period.

My point is that instead of trying to ram the logic of restrictions down my throat, take that energy and convince your govt. that a cap is a better solution. If you cant, then...welcome to Minnesota. Some things are out of your hands.

Dljeye. You guys may have taken a run at a cap but from what I can see, you gave up on that and are resting on restrictions.

I am at an age where I dont really give a rip. Between responsibilites and lack of money and kids near college... and plenty of land and hunting opps over here, I can find plenty enough to occupy the little free time I have. But hey, I am still stewing about things that happened during world war 2. Long before I was born........................ and no Bob...I dont think myslef a bigger man for having feelings and principles. I do, however, think that if more people truely felt what I feel and respected and what those feelings and principles represent (seasoned with a little reality) we would all end up as we will but, in a better state of mind.

You guys probably think that my sun sets and rises on what happens in Nodak regarding duck hunting. It does'nt.

Posting here simply fills some down time that I have and it makes me feel better to try to let you guys know that there are a lot of different ways to look at a situation. I have spilled my guts about how and where and when I grew up...what I witnessed, what I had control over and what I didn't.

The landowners out there (not you Bob..I know that you are special) (I am referring to the the Dirt farming corn pickers out there who have a lot more on their plate than who hunts what in the fall...(like making a living) look at things one way, the non landowning, City hunters out there, look at it another way... the NRs who "hunt" instead of "kill" another...the GOs another, and the NRs who figger that they deserve what they pay for...yet another.

I can see all sides of it and am not a factor in any of it other than what I write here. All I am trying to do is get you guys on the same page. If I am successful or unsuccessful, I didnt hurt you or me. None of us are "wrong"... Simply after the same sport but coming from different situations with different perspectives.

My opinion doesnt mean squat as I cannot vote in your state. This is a NoDak website. I am a guest here just as I would be a guest in NoDak if I ever hunt there again. Thing is...I would say the same things at some farmer's dinner table over there, during a hunt as I say here. I have... and I have been invited back many a time.

Take it for what it is worth. If it means nothing, the sun will come up here tomorrow about 7:00 and it will set about 7:00.

Most of you who think that I am some arrogant, ignorant, bitter guy would buddy up with me in a minute if we ever met face to face and I know through PMs that most of you are all good guys too. I have lots of really close friends whom I dont agree with about politics, or sports or how to raise a kid but we are still really close friends.

I am done with this thread. It is going nowhere.

I simply hope that what I have said here made some people think and I hope you dont feel hatred towards someone whom you have never met face to face.

This is just the internet. Somewhere, there is a flock of mallards resting peacefully on a rice bed in northern Minnesota or a cattail slough in North Dakota and I'd bet they only care about the water and the cover and the weather and the feed. We don't really mean that much to them in their day to day.


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## Bob Kellam

OK Bert

Here are the regulations for SD

Nonresident licenses and fees



> UNIT Cost AREA DESCRIPTION
> NRW-00A $110 Valid in Charles Mix, Bon Homme, Yankton, Clay & Union counties. License is valid for entire seasons open in these counties.
> 
> NRW-00B $110 Valid 10-days, statewide, except in Units 00A & 11A*
> 
> NRW-00C $45 September Canada goose season. See Hunting Handbook for details.
> 
> NRW-11A $110 Bennett County - Applicants must choose a 10-consecutive day period between Oct. 22 and Dec. 18 or Jan. 3-18, 2006 (see application)
> 
> NRW-00S $45/$25 Statewide, spring goose valid Feb. 1 - May 15
> NRW-00X
> 
> (3-day) $75 Valid on private land in Hughes, Sully, Stanley, Lyman & Potter counties
> 
> NRW-00Y
> (3-day) $75 Valid on public & private lands in Brown, Marshall Roberts, Day, Grant, Clark, Codington, Deuel, & Hamlin counties


Gee is ND really that restrictive??????????? My God SD has zones!! say it ain't so :lol: and they have higher license fees and more time restrictions in some of the better waterfowl zones.

oh my lord!! They only allow 5000 Non resident licenses by lottery.

What should ND have for regulations, Similar to SD or more like MN and MT.

Or will you only be satisfied when ND is a mirror image of MN??

Lets get to the meat of this and quit writing novels to verbally beat each other up. It is apparent that nobody but you gives a rats behind if you own land or not S0000000ooooooo Tell me, Lay out you plan in 15,000 words or less

What do you want to see for regulations in ND??? besides landowner status that is Dictatorial

Bob


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## KYUSS

:splat:


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## fireball

The idea that most landowners are the steward of wildlife is ridiculous. As I drive the country side in the fall, I see dozens of sloughs being burnt every day. These sloughs are being burnt, turned over and prepped for next season. If the land is barren, it will not hold as much snow, creating less water next spring, eliminating the slough, creating more tillable acreage. If that is anyones idea of conservation, or habitat improvement, they are stupid. The more acres landowners till, the more subsidy money they are eligible for, simple as that. If landowners were not reimbursed for CRP, that program would be non existent. These programs are all funded by taxpayer money. Everyones tax money, NR, R, sportsman and Petafreaks. It gives no one group the right to claim anything, in regards to wildlife. The majority of landowners live off government help and would not participate in any type of habitat building if they were not reimbursed for it. There are the few, real conservasionists and those who build land for pay hunting that do, but other than that it is about the money.

On the R, NR issue and limited slots, time, and opening...to bad. We are not going to sit here and lose what we have becuase we are the last to move forward with new legislation. Small towns in ND do not balance on NR money. I live in a small town, I own a restaurant and I see maybe 2k a year in additional income from hunting, in a large hunting community. If your business fails because of hunting regulations, time to get a new job or learn how to run a successful business. If ND has become such a bad place to come and hunt, there are 10 other states to waterfowl hunt, in the midwest, get a map and grab some pavement, other than that, you are more than welcome to come and share our resources and hospitality, but don't tell us how to run our state to make it more comfortable for you.

Thanks and have a great day. :sniper:


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