# Laser Bore Sighter



## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

I have been reading a little on the Laser Bore Sighters and it has me somewhat curious. I have the BSA Bore Sighter with all the collets to fit various calibers and it puts me on paper at 100 yards every time.
Has anyone ever used or owned a laser Bore Sighter?
What are the good ones and what are the ones to stay away from?
I notice prices from $50-200 range.
I would guess that the laser bore sighters will not help you align the crosshairs on the scope the way a regular bore sighter can.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> laser bore sighters will not help you align the crosshairs on the scope the way a regular bore sighter can


Your regular bore sighting device is not going to help you to align the cross hairs with the bore axis either. If you use the bore sighting tool for this you are depending on the assumption that you yourself properly aligned the bore sight in the barrel to be perfectly on a horizontal plane . There are tools available for proper horizontal alignment of scope cross hairs. Both types of bore sighting devices are for putting you on paper at 100 yards and nothing else. At least that is how I understand their use.......


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## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

You are correct, Gohon. In fact, I find the claims of most boresighter companies (laser or not) to be ludacris: That you can check the zero on a rifle minutes before you go on a hunt without firing a shot, using a device which fits rather loosely into the barrel (from an engineering perspective), is a borderline lie.

At the very least, they fail to account for your bullets A-Tending to land a little left or right, like they do when I shoot Federals out of my 10/22, and B- the simple fact that bullets drop.

Actually, I've found that most times, after I spend time carefully mounting a scope, it's usually on the paper anyway (I use a big sheet of white newsprint with some quarter-sized target stickers, works VERY well), and that using a boresighter after that is pointless and will potentially push me off the paper.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The laser will get you on paper, and it will do ok for a rough in the field check if you keep notes. Keep in mind that the dot it larger at 100 yards than the group from an even poor rifle. My 308 with the laser in it intersects crosshair and dot at 100 yards with the crosshair a little to the left on the dot. The crosshair is correct but the bore alignment of the laser bore sight is not perfect, it is perfect in my 270, and very close in my 22 calibers. I guess mine is dependent on the little plastic caliber, bore adapter. I prefer the type that fits in the muzzle over the chamber type. See same subject below. 
As gohon said they will not level your crosshair. I level my rifle on the front and rear mount while tightening it in a vise. Then I hang a heavy white string with a two ounce weight on the end. I align the vertical hair with the string.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

Plainsman
At what distance do you hang this string for checking the crosshair on the scope?
I do not see why a boresighter (not laser) would not align the crosshairs as long as the vertical line of scope meets with the vertical line of the boresighter and the horizontal line of the scope meets the horizontal line of the boresighter. How can you possible misalign these two intersecting lines? What am I missing here?? :-?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

It would work if you were capable of getting the bore sighter perfectly level. If you are using the arbor type, or the magnetic type there is no way to level these. I have seen a laser bore sighter at Cabela's with a built in level. I have no way of knowing if they work. Again your rifle would also have to be level.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

Plainsman,
again, can you tell me at what distance you hang the string for checking the alignment of the hairs?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Sorry, I forgot that part, old timers you know. It doesn't make that much difference, as long as you can see it. It doesn't even need to be perfectly clear. I have mine hung at only about 30 feet, with the scope turned to the lowest power.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

Plainsman,
Thank you. I know about the "old timer's" I suffer a bit of it myself.
I still cannot think that the bore sighter cannot give you a perfect alignment of the crosshairs. If you have the boresighter fixed in the barrel and the scope mounted fast on the rifle, how can you not have the hairs perfectly aligned if you move both the scope and boresighter until the hairs are perfectly matched within each other?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

You can make them perfectly match each other, but that is not necessarily level. Try this, turn your bore sighter so it is not level. You can still twist your scope to match the bore sighted can't you? Then turn your scope. You now can move your bore sighter to match your scope right?
With the arbor inserted in the barrel it will let you move circular, hence off center to the 90 degree axis of the bore. Tip your rifle in a vise then try level your bore sighter. Not hard at all. Now match your scope to the bore sighter. Again that is easy. All I am saying is unless you have your rifle level, and some sort of level in your bore sighter there is no way to level the bore sighter perfectly every time just eyeing it. 
Some of the very expensive bore sighters I guess do have a level in them. That is perhaps what you have so in that case, I would be wrong.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

here is where I get confused. you can turn out the oresighter but cannot make the scope match it again because you turned the boresighter off it's axes. It is now no longer centered in the barrel so the scope will no longer follow the same path!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm getting confused too. Ok let me ask you this. How do you know when your boresighter is perfectly level?


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

When the vertical and horizontal lines of the scope match the boresighter perfectly, that is when I know it is perfectly level. As far as the gun being perfectly level, I do not worry about that at this time. As long as the boresighter is fixed in the barrel of the gun, and the scope is fixed on the gun, they have to line up perfectly to be level!
I have been doing this for many years now and have never had a scope out of level. I am very concerned that the gun must be level when I do my final shoot to zero the scope. This way the V and H adjustments on the scope will track perfectly for me.
I can tell you that in my 54 years, I have never gone wrong with this adjustment. I canot say the same for a boresighter that has the magnet on it. Only for the boresighter with the collets that come as the kit such as the one I have now made by BSA.
Each collet that fits into the barrel has a flat spot that the boresighter will fit over and is snugged with a screw to align it so you can matcch the lines in the scope by twisting both boresighter and scope until you come to a perfect alignment.
I hope I am explaining this correctly now!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes, you did a good job, and I understand. Now tell me, how do you know your boresighter is level before you adjust your scope to match?


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

The boresighter is level when the collet slides into the barrel.
assuming that you level the scope mounts perfectly on the rifle, the scope will too be level on the rifle. When you slide the collet into the barrel end, the boresighter is level with the barrel.
When all is said and done, you will still need to use elevation and windage adjustments on scope to bring in zero so you hit the 12" paper at 100 yards.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

When I say that the boresighter is level, I mean that it is level to the barrel and scope, not to any means of levelness as you would build a shelf level to the ground.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The boresighter is level with the barrel when you look at the rifle from the side. Now looking at the rifle from the front, how do you know that the crosshairs in the boresighter are level?


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

I would have to assume that it will automatically be leveled with the barrel due to the steel collet being inserted into the barrel of the rifle and that will level it to the top of the receiver.
All I know is that when I set up the boresighter in the barrel of the rifle using the proper collet, set up the scope rings flat on the receiver and mount the scope, the crosshairs on both the boresighter and scope will come into alignment sooner or later with a little patience and then lock down the scope and check one more final time before sighting in the rifle at the 100 yard range. It all comes together.
I have sighted my rifles as far out as 300 yards and the bullet will track from the 50 yard mark, 100, 150, 200, 250, and 300 yards as it is projected to be according to the charts using the 1.6 or so inches high at 100 and hitting the 200 yard mark at the center. I have shot at 200 yard zero and according to the holdover charts, the impact will always come where it is projected to be.
if I tried to eplain any furthur, I would be blowing smoke at you! This is the way I was taught, and the way I have done it since mounting my first scope to the last two I just mounted this past week. 
It works...
As far as sighting my vertical hair in the scope, I have used a level line drawn on the side of the garage wall and sighted it in from the yard making sure it was straight up and down using the level on the gun as well and it has always worked. I gues it was much the same as the string with the 2 oz. weight on it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The line on the garage wall would work. I have even used a power pole a half mile west of the range where I shoot. Zoom in on it with the rifle in a vise and square up the scope. I sure hope the guys put them in straight.
If you have been getting your boresigher level, you have been very lucky. It will not automatically level.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

Can't do that around here. If you did, you would be shooting around the corner.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

elderberry99, what you are describing is what most people do when aligning the sights on a scope. For general hunting and especially on big game, say out to 300, maybe even 400 yards there is little error to worry about and usually goes unnoticed. What you are doing is still assuming the bore is in a perfect horizontal alignment. Even the line on the wall assumes the rifle is cradled in a perfect position but even if the rifle is cocked just one degree you will never know with your method. You will only know by using designed for alignment of the scope to the bore. Now if the game is something like a prairie dog at 500-600 yards, this alignment will be critical and show up as the bullets walk left or right on you. Even a half a degree which will not be visible to the naked eye could result in misses at that range. If you are shooting at something like targets at 1,000 meters then you will also be in a bad fix. I don't even go to the trouble you and Plainsman do. I simply shoulder by rifle and position it in a natural stance for me and adjust the scope left or right until the cross hairs appear on a horizontal plain and then tighten down the rings. Works for me but then I don't do long range target shooting and PD's at 300-350 yards is my max distance limit with the .223 I use.

Here is something you can try if you are using a single solid base mount. Take a six inch metal ruler and using a large rubber band slip the ruler through the rubber band. Then place the first inch or so of the ruler on top of the scope base under the scope. Pull the rubber band down and under to the other side and hook it on the protruding side of the ruler under the scope. Now assuming you have a quality base, which you will find out real fast, just place a small plastic bubble leveler on the longest portion sticking out from under the scope. Adjust your gun until that bubble is positioned dead center and your bore should be level. Now peer through your scope at the bore sight and see what you see. If you have two piece scope mounts you can still do this but you must level the gun in a vice and lock it down before mounting the scope rings and scope.

BTW, now days I use a laser bore sight at 30 yards and while using point blank software I simple adjust the cross hairs to where the bullet should print at that distance and then move the target to 100 yards. Works pretty well for me.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Just a point to add. If you are shooting long range. After you think you are level take the rifle to the range. You will need a level on your scope to do this check. Set up in sandbags and sight in at 100 yards. Then shift to a three foot piece of butcher paper. Put a ½ inch dot at the bottom and draw a line through it all the way to the top. When you staple this to the backstop use a level so the line is perfectly vertical. Your first shot should be at the dot. Adjust six inches up fire another shot. Do this until you have adjusted your scope up 36 inches. The bullet should follow the line all the way up without shifting left or right.

As gohon has indicated a couple degrees throws you off two feet at 1000 yards.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

This is what I was talking about. Should be easier to see what I meant, than try to decipher my babble.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

I target shoot at 100 and 200 yards. I hunt southern whitetails here in NC as well with these rifles of mine.
With the sighting and leveling that I have been describing, it seems to put me exactly where I need to be with my game and targets. 
Now, If I were to start target shooting or hunting say out to 500 or so yards, I would definitly have to recheck my sights in a more positive way as to be more exact.
I take every feasable precaution I can think of to assure my bullet placements are as exact as possible for my situation as every responsable hunter should do.
Besides, what fun is it to stick a scope on a rifle and just zero it in and then put it away? Don't we like to play with our new toys!! :beer:


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

Gohon,
Thanks for the picture. It was just a little hard trying to figure out exactly what you were trying to say to me. I now know what it was you said and I have done this myself with the ruler and rubber band when I had the flat surface on the receiver of the rifle.
What I also do when setting up my targets at the 100 yard mark, I would take my carpenter level and draw a cross on the target once it was in place making sure that the two lines were perfectly level and plum so I can track the scope adjustments as I made them to be sure the scope crosshairs were in deed straight and level.


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