# Environmental Adaptation???



## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

I just want to pose this question.

Some history: I have been hunting pheasants in Nodak for just over 20 years now. My best years were 1989-1991 (nothing was posted, not many hunters, and I could hunt everyday after school, and most of all the birds were plentiful). I have always owned dogs and hunted from the opener to the end of the season.

I was out this weekend (darn windy) on a place that hadn't been hit since opener. Landowner hit it on opening day, but he hasn't hunted it since and he watches it like a hawk.

We got out of the vehicle and made it no further than 20 yards into a thicker slough and out they went....somewhere between 200-250 birds. Quite a site to say the least, but flushing 100 yards out in front of us.

So here is my thoughts as I drove back to Devils Lake. The pheasants seem to be following the same pattern as our native grouse do. We know we have seen environmental adaptation in our ducks and we talk about those changes on here all the time.

I remember birds holding tight back in 1991 and not going out early on us. So do you think we are seeing an environmental adaptation in our pheasants?


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

I think in '91 there was snow on the ground, that slow them down quite a bit.

I think even though they have not been hunted in that spot, that the Hoarde of birds moves here and there and they get hunted/educated on neighboring parcels of land.

I think the wind makes all game flighty, pheasents, ducks, deer, whatever.

I think there also may be some truth to your environmental change theory, but the other factors apply as well.

The missing snow is the biggest "missing link" to birds that will hold in cover.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Agreed with Horsager. The gene pool of pheasants in ND is constantly polluted with released birds anyway. Eventually they will turn into chickens.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

I'm not sure what this does to your theory but...

This weekend 17 different pheasants (or at least 12) held for the point of a three year old English Setter. It was in fields and not in sloughs but they still held point.


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## upland420 (Dec 27, 2004)

live2hunt said:


> I just want to pose this question.
> 
> I was out this weekend (darn windy) on a place that hadn't been hit since opener. Landowner hit it on opening day, but he hasn't hunted it since and he watches it like a hawk.
> 
> We got out of the vehicle and made it no further than 20 yards into a thicker slough and out they went....somewhere between 200-250 birds. Quite a site to say the least, but flushing 100 yards out in front of us.


If it was "darn windy" you clearly entered the slough from the wrong direction...they heard you early (with the help of the wind) and bailed on you as they could heard you well in advance. If you would have entered with the wind in your face (on a very windy day) you would have virtually needed to step on them to get them up as there would have been very little chance of ANY birds hearing you coming.


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## fargodawg (Sep 20, 2005)

myself and another guy this past friday, 5 birds on 8 extremely solid points and 3 really bad shooting experiences, I think that quiet is the key along with good pointers, no bragging here just my experiences, hunt with quiet people and you will have better luck, when my group gets loud I tend to stray off


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

> If it was "darn windy" you clearly entered the slough from the wrong direction


sorry, but wrong. I only work into the wind with the dogs.

We did get our birds, but my whole purpose to this post was to throw out the idea that birds are environmentally adapting over the course of the years.

If this is true and just the beginning of them adapting, think about what it could be like 10 years from now. Now I am just throwing this out, but "what if" they favored towards the way sharptails flush early. It means the late season hunting could/would change greatly. It may mean even less hunters in the field. Take sharptails for instance. Are there not alot of them around? I saw 50-60 grouse on Saturday as well, but even the best of us give up on grouse by late October (I harvested 31 grouse this past fall).

fargodawg: I do agree with you there. hunters have to take special precautions on vehicle doors and other noises before entering the hunting area.

Like I said. The point of this was the throw out the idea or question of environmental adaptations. If this is just an early sign for us for the future or maybe it was just the conditions. I guess the last couple of weekends I have seen this happen and I have been hunting different areas of the state each time. It was just this last weekend, I decided to throw a post out there with some thoughts.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Sounds like late season birds. They probably did not spend the whole season on one side of the road. There is nothing the matter with having to do a little work or having to plot a strategy to get a shot at a smarter bird. Hell anyone can go out and shoot a limit of birds the first few weeks of the season. It is like shooting ducks on opening weekend. Now it is all about good dogs, quiet, pinching birds in cover, cappers, knowing the lay of your land and good shooting on shots that are probably going to be a little longer. If I am a walker, I am only worried about the birds at my feet and not birds that are jumping ahead. As far as genetics, well it is probably not as big a factor as we would like to believe. Education of the birds is probably the biggest factor. Most of the cattail sloughs and CRP this time of year have an abundance of trails through them so I think this contributes more to running than anything. Just talked to a guy who went out to Regent hunting and he said that the cappers shot by far the most birds because even though there were hundreds of birds the CRP was so thin and the birds were so wild this time of the year that the drivers were not getting much for shots. I am not one for big groups of hunters so when I am out hunting we are always checking out the lay of the cover and the land so we can figure out what our best chances for finding birds may be. If you were decoy hunting you would tweak your set here or tweak it there or if you were fishing you would tweak your strategy as to location or rigging and when hunting late season birds you have to be willing to quote. "change on the fly" as the conditions change and it may be all in the course of one day. Don't you just love it!!


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## ryanps18 (Jun 23, 2006)

I just thougt it was the poor cover due to the drought that most of the state has suffered form. Good question!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Birds might be adapting. Just like more whitetails are looking into trees!

But like most have stated.....I think they are just educated birds. They have been hunted.

It is like late season Honkers....you have to change tactic to have success.

Chuck


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

I would have to agree that it is large groups of late season birds with no snow on the ground that led to the wild flushes. Slightly different angle, has any one else noticed that a very large percentage of roosters aren't making any noise when they flush? :beer:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Nope! When I surprise them they cackle and when they know I coming they try to get away as soon as they can. As smart as they are I am not surprising very many at this point in the season so they don't cackle.


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## Rick Acker (Sep 26, 2002)

Birds have seemed smarter to us as well this year...Even on opening day we had birds flushing at 70 yards out. And we were working heavy cover. There might be something to your idea?


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Rick: I agree. Same thing on opener for us. It was an easy hunt, but many birds flushed 70 plus yards in front of us even in heavier cover.

I am just posing the question so that 10 years from now, they can say "hey remember that guy on nodak 10 years ago that was talking about adaptation".

Just for once I want to be ahead of the curve! ha ha :wink:


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Seriously, I'd agree with all of that. Esp. that they were wild from the get go, and that might have something to do with the very dry habitat that makes more noise. I think that if they believe they are making too much noise or are visable on snow they'll bail out early. It is a threat to them. I'm am very hard of hearing and on still days I can hear the birds, dogs, and hunters moving in the cats. It has to be scarey if you're on the bottom of the food chain 24 hrs a day. Other guys told me they had spots that weren't hunted before and the birds were just as wild as any place else. Predation spooks 'em so they are hyper-sensative and they love to fight too, so roosters move around from one field to another. After 40 years of hunting I still don't understand the total effect weather plays on holding and flushing. :-? Wet days are usually better and fresh snow is good.


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## tumblebuck (Feb 17, 2004)

> Even on opening day we had birds flushing at 70 yards out. And we were working heavy cover.


Same here. I remember some "good-natured" ribbing of the landowner about "hunting pheasants year-round."

We attributed the long flushes to the large number of adult birds carrying over from last year. They've been through one season, maybe more, and know the game....even if the haven't been pressured for 8 months.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Might be grouse hunters, might be coyotes might be a lot of things but it is not a change in the gene pool. I do know there has been a tremendous amount of pressure on the resource so if they have the intelligence of a snow goose it doesn't surprise me that they get a little smarter as the season progresses. Although the snow goose analogy only holds true for a second season because there aren't many three year old roosters but a snow goose can live for ? seasons!! Hunting pressure, pressure, pressure...be smart or be dead! But being smart is not genetics but learned behavior.


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## Shorthair.On.Point (Nov 28, 2006)

It only takes one nervous bird to make the whole lot of them bust.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Hunted hard yesterday (12-20-06). Had about 150 birds in front of us that we pushed through 4 different sloughs before securing our limit. I had 3 birds bagged by the second slough and my friend finished at slough 4. I think the key is getting them so they don't want to fly anymore or get tired.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Interesting topic! I'm not sure the evolution of ultra smart roosters has come about this quick, but it wouldn't surprise me if someday they become virtually unhuntable. If you think about it, the only roosters we harvest are the "dumb" ones. The ones that leave themselves vulnerable. The "smart" ones survive. This leads to smarter genes being spread in the pool. At what point in time will the birds learn to run like hell and fly away out of gun range at the slightest sound/sense of danger? If we weed out most of the "dumb" birds, you gotta think someday they'll adapt to escape hunters at a higher rate than they do now.

As for the skittish birds now though.....I'd say the snow is a big factor. It seems to me, birds and other game have a higher tendency to stay still when it's real cold and snowy. Seems like they don't want to use the energy they've had to work so hard to get food and survive, they don't want to "uselessly" burn energy. When food is more easily had and the terrain is easier to navigate, it seems they are more likely to take off.

It also seems to me there is power in numbers for the birds. Like grouse for example...it's pretty easy to limit early season when they are spread out, a single here, single there, but when they are in a big group, when one of them flies off they ALL seem to fly off. Pheasants seem to fly off when in larger groups too. It also makes it tough for the dogs with all the scent on the ground. Makes it hard for the dog to pin or flush in range. The harder running birds seem to make the dogs push them out a bit further.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

It may be true that we shoot the dumb ones but a 2 year old pheasant in ND is a pretty old bird. In that time they probably spend more time keeping away from predators than hunters.

It's not like snow geese, where some of them are 15-20 years old.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

They run more than they did 40 years ago.

If you think about it the ones that run instead of flush tend to live and breed the next genration. The idea that the genetic tendency to run is passed on makes sense to me.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

redlabel said:


> It may be true that we shoot the dumb ones but a 2 year old pheasant in ND is a pretty old bird. In that time they probably spend more time keeping away from predators than hunters.
> 
> It's not like snow geese, where some of them are 15-20 years old.


I don't disagree with these comments. My point is that I wonder if the escapability of birds is due to inherited traits also. I'm sure a 15-20 yr old snow goose learns A LOT environmentally! A rooster's life span simply doesn't allow for that kind of knowledge. But, I'm curious about the traits that are passed on from the survivors. In order to survive, a lot of those birds must have better instincts than others. Some, I'm sure, are just lucky to make it through a season or two. The birds with the top survival insticts are the ones that make me wonder how or if the evolution of the birds habits can change.

At some point, pheasants probably just walked, or flew. I'm not sure which came first, but now they use both those skills to evade predators. For some reason, certain birds such as sharptails do not use thier running abilities as well or as much as pheasants.

I don't know about you guys, but I've noticed A LOT more hens running than I have in the past. It used to be if a bird was a runner, it was a good chance you were chasing a rooster. Now it seems like it's about a 60% chance rooster! Makes me wonder about the gentic thing again........

Personally, I think genetics is playing a pretty big role in pheasants and other species.

Reminds me of a theory I heard from a guy one time about rattlesnakes. In the past decade or so (according to this guy), there has been a large increase in rattlers that do not have a functional rattle or do not rattle before they strike. He said this was trait passed on to next generations. This allowed the snakes to strike without the threat of being attacked. Example- hunter hears rattler, snake dies.....no warning (rattle) snake bites man. This guy says he will not shoot snakes that rattle, says if they rattle he'll let them live and move on his way. He does the same thing with skunks that don't spray his dog. If a skunk rears up but doesnt' spray, he'll get his dog outta there and let the skunk live. However, if the skunk sprays too quickly, he'll shoot the skunk if he has a chance.


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## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

griffman said:


> redlabel said:
> 
> 
> > It may be true that we shoot the dumb ones but a 2 year old pheasant in ND is a pretty old bird. In that time they probably spend more time keeping away from predators than hunters.
> ...


I would imagine there must be a lot of rattlesnakes that strike without rattling. If one rattled every time before it struck I would think that would be a pretty hungry rattlesnake.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

redlabel said:


> I would imagine there must be a lot of rattlesnakes that strike without rattling. If one rattled every time before it struck I would think that would be a pretty hungry rattlesnake.


I think you have the wrong impression here....the rattle is a WARNING to predators (which would include humans). The following is an excerpt from another website describing the rattles purpose and the evolution of a subspecies of rattler.

_Rattlesnakes (genus Crotalus) have a venomous bite that can inflict serious harm but these unaggressive snakes only strike when threatened, so it is easy in most cases to avoid danger. Most of the 8,000 or so people bit by poisonous snakes annually in the United States, receive bites when attempting to handle, catch or corner a snake. *Rattlesnakes will look for any chance to escape confrontation. The telltale rattle gives warning the snake feels threatened.*There are 32 species of rattlesnakes in the United States and many subspecies, with the highest concentrations in the southwest. Smaller populations of perhaps a single species can be found elsewhere in the country. Native to California, several regional species include the Pacific Rattler, Diamondback and Sidewinder.
*There is one species of rattler without a rattle at all. It is the Santa Catalina Island Rattler whose tail simply ends in a stub. It is thought that the secondary loss of the rattle is an evolutionary adaptation for hunting birds.* This species has arboreal tendencies and can often be found a few feet off the ground climbing through the desert brush on the island. *A fully developed rattle would make a considerable amount of noise as the snake climbed through the brush, which would scare off roosting birds.* This species will often hang onto its prey, unlike most rattlesnakes. *It is thought this behavioral modification is associated with the problems of tracking a bird after a bite is delivered.*
The Santa Catalina Island Rattlesnake can move quickly through the branches and is unlike the large, heavy-bodied, terrestrial rattlesnake species._

Now, knowing that rattlers rattle as a warning, and some subspecies have evolved to meet their hunting needs for survival....what makes you think pheasants couldn't evolve in a similar matter to meet their needs for survival?

I understand this evolution in snakes is not a direct result of mankind, however it definitely has an indirect impact towards humans. Just imagine the effects this type of evolution would have on us hunters if our snakes in ND needed to develop in this fashion. Luckily we have a lot of mice and other rodents I guess!

The bottom line is all species have evolved and continue to evolve. The rate of change may be slow in many animals/mammals, but when it comes to survival of a species, its either evolve or go extinct.

Make no mistake about it, the birds we love to hunt are changing. If they weren't, they wouldn't survive. I'm not saying they are changing just due to hunters, but to ALL predators. Every year that goes by they are getting better at eluding predators of all kinds.

On the other hand, we as hunters are also evolving, perfecting our techniques and utilizing our resources in a manner to continue effective harvests. Things such as improved shells, chokes, lighter guns, better swinging guns, camo wear, better bred dogs, etc. etc......all those things are proof of our "evolution" whether you realize it or not.


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