# why do rich people hunt like this ???



## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

http://www.mallardmanor.com/


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## Ripline (Jan 10, 2003)

Fetch,
ALOT of so called hunters envision hunting as the europeans do it. Only the "well established" uke: 
They literally have no idea what it is to experience a freelance hunt. Not only that but they would probably fail horribly at it.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Because they have no comprehension of what real hunting is. To them, hunting is more about sitting around drinking cognac and smoking cigars and being waited on hand and foot than it is about the actual hunt.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Just more living proof money can't buy happiness or satisfaction, you have to put effort in to get the true feelings.


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## bubolc (Aug 11, 2003)

all I can say is what a joke. :eyeroll:


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

As I have said all along....that's not hunting, thats shooting!! :eyeroll: :eyeroll: uke:


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## NDJ (Jun 11, 2002)

when I look at the web site, I hear Robin Leach in my head reading it to me....


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

That lodge looks pretty slick though, its either an old plantation house converted, or a new house built to look like a plantation. I can imagine a stay there costs four figures, at least.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Its isnt a "true hunting trip if you dont stay in a ****ty hotel" :lol: :lol:


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

I wouldn't stay there if it was free. If my lab can't sleep in my room she just wouldn't be the same!! :eyeroll:


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## Doug (Feb 10, 2004)

My 2 cents.
I have grown up hunting public land and the occasional buddy has hooked me up with a hunt or two on private land. I had never hunted at a "club" until this last year. 
I went online to a Chicago hunting and fishing website and asked in their forums if anyone would possibly take me pheasant hunting when I came into town. Note: I live in florida and my wife is from Chicago and I was heading up there for Christmas. Back to what I was saying, I recieved an amazing bunch of suggestions and offers form these guys on this site and before I knew it I had a ride to a hunt club in Illinois and and the owner of the site who is about the nicest guy I have ever met let me use his shotgun. We hunted a place called Rooster Heaven.
www.roosterheavenhuntclub.com
The deal was for $125.00 you could shoot 4 pheasant plus lunch was included. I remind you I had never done this, and I was VERY skeptical and hesitant to hunt a place that throws birds out of the back of a pickup truck. But I did it anyway, Why you ask? To get away from the inlaws for a day! LOL j/k. I did it because I wanted to see why people all over the nation are starting to hunt this way.
This trip turned out to be the most fun I have had hunting in a long time.
One of the guys in our group dropped extra birds and I must have shot 3 or 4 boxes of shells. We started out hunting quail and chukkar and I was amazed that they flew as fast and furious as a wild bird does, and they taste better because of all that force fed grain.
We then moved on to pheasant, and I cant say whether or not the pheasant flew as well as wild ones do because It was the first time I had ever seen one, and I will say this, the first pheasant I ever saw fly----> died. 
I picked him up and then got a picture of that beautiful rooster.
Other Illinois hunter said they flew as well as wild birds do and these guys werent yuppie hunt club guys either.
Mid day we went to the "cabin" for Pork Tenderloin and some taters and then went back out to hunt a little more.
We had a guide and a dog, we were spoiled but man was it a blast.
I dont think I could do it on a regular basis 
A. because of the cost 
B. Because eventually you lose that feeling of a real hunt when you skunk out and decide next weekend you are going to do this or that different in order to ensure you get that game you are looking for.
So, I peronally wouldnt do it every time I want to hunt.
But yes I will do it on an annual basis.
-Doug
Also Tomarrow I am going to my favorite publi snipe hunting marsh and I probably wont shoot but 2 birds.
But that isnt the real reason I go,I dont go to kill as much as possible.
I go Because I love hanging out with other people that love to enjoy what we have been given as a gift. Outdoors and nature.
We must use it responsibly. Are hunting clubs responsible?
I dont really know yet , Honestly I am still trying to decide.
But I do know this they are fun
cya


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

How can you call it a hunt when you know you're going to shoot birds? I.E. What exactly are you "hunting" for if you know they're already there? Wouldn't it be better suited to call it what it is...which is shooting?

I understand the niche game farms have and I don't really have a problem with them. It's definitely not my cup of tea but I can see how they serve a purpose, and are able to help a lot of guys who don't have any real hunting within their area get out and work the dog.

So what I'm saying is I have no problem with people going out and shooting tame birds...I just have a problem when they call it hunting.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Well put Jones. I don't like the fact that many people are trying to turn hunting wild game into shooting. That really sucks the big one for me. If you want to go out and shoot things then do it on a game farm. If you want to go out and hunt then I think that you should do that on your own.

Without doing it on your own you are no more than a shooter. Hunting takes skill. I can take out any yahoo and put them in a blind next to me and they can shoot birds. They are not hunters however they are just shooters. If you have a genuine interest in learning how to be a hunter that is great and it will take time to learn and this can be taught by other hunters, but in being a hunter you also have other responsibilities such as preservation of the game you pursue, ethics etc etc.

I have done the canned hunt deal and personally I think it sucks the big one. Why not just get together and drink cocktails and eat food with your buddies and BS.

Shooting a pen raised bird with a shotgun and killing a chicken to eat for dinner with a pocket knife rank about the same for me in the thrill department. I've shot the pen raised birds a few times and the pocket knife chicken more than I care to admit.

If you want to do the game farm thing that's fine but don't go out hunt wild game with a guide and call yourself a hunter.

Doug this was not a shot at you. You have at least tried to make an honest assesment of all of this and I respect that.


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

Mallard Manor doesnt release birds, but at those prices I wouldnt be suprised if they didnt start after a couple more bad years without ducks. As for why people hunt like that.....see my post in the thread about landowners. Those boys down there dont have many options for freelancing.....except as NRs coming to ND.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

You dont need guides for birds, but big game is a whole other story GG. :wink:


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## Doug (Feb 10, 2004)

Did you see somewhere on mallard manors site that says they dont raise birds?
If you did, you are right those prices are subject to change after a SLOW season of ducks.
But I am willing to bet they do raise their own.
And they definately throw a crap load of corn out year round.
Maybe not in season but the rest of the year they do.
2 weeks from when the last piece of bait has been eaten.
-Doug-


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## 1lessdog (Feb 4, 2004)

It amazes me what some people will say when someone goes to a game farmTo shoot a bird but in the same breath will say its alright to hire a Guide for Big Game.Alot of people dont have the advanges we have here.But to slam some one for going to one is low.I would like to see anyone go too the Chicago area and find a place to hunt.Ive Elk hunted for 13 yrs and have shot 10 and never hired a guide and when in areas Ive never hunted and have shot Elk.So if you do your homework you can kill a animals.
One question is if you go to a game farm to work your Dog is that wrong because your not working your dog on wild birds.And heaven for bid you should shoot one.
The people slaming other hunter are if I was to guess are about 22 to 26 yrs old that know everything.(in there own mind).
So grow up and and support the other hunter for doing what they can to get on some birds.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

All hunting is getting way to commercialized and way too much technology
ROBO ducks ect. I've have a funny story a friend of mine went on one of these quails "hunts" here in Georgia and stepped in a bunch of fireants ( fireants are something which should make you guys thankful its damn cold up there in the winter). Anyway he starts knocking the ants of his legs with his hat and all the quail in the area run out of the brush and stand around his feet looking up at him. No kidding! Turns out the old guy that feeds the pen raised quail had the habit of beating his hat against his leg attract them when he fed them. After that he couldn't bring himself to shoot one! Now you know why we real hunters darken your door in ND :beer:


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I'm not really sure who your directing your wrath towards 1lessdog. If you know my stance I don't support guides of anykind and if your wondering I have never used one.

I don't think its ok to use a big game guide or a waterfowl guide or upland guide at all and I in no way have tried to imply that it wasn't ok to work your dog on a game farm if that is what you want to do, but I sure would not call that hunting. All it is is shooting and working your dog. Where is the suspense? Where is the fair chase?

Its a sad state of affairs when we call HUNTING going to a game farm and killing an animal that was put out a few hours before. I will not nor will I ever apologize (sp) for saying that that is not hunting.

Go to the game farm and do what makes you happy.

I guess you can classify me as a purist.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Look in the back of any "hook and Bullet" magazine and all you see is adds with "guaranteed kills" or no kill no pay. Its sickening and you're corrrect its not hunting. Then go to the guided hunt section and really get indigestion. We need to find something else to talk about. Its getting me down thinking about it. I'm going to retire in some state that has tons of public land!


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

Doug said:


> Did you see somewhere on mallard manors site that says they dont raise birds?
> If you did, you are right those prices are subject to change after a SLOW season of ducks.
> But I am willing to bet they do raise their own.
> And they definately throw a crap load of corn out year round.
> ...


Ive been there not to hunt but to check it out and get a quick look at the place. I expected to see pen raised birds and baited holes but they are actually legit as far as those aspects go. BUT like i said it would not suprise me that they would implement some sort of release option because they have had very few birds in that area the past few years. They will be forced to drop prices or manufacture success for thier clients. I dont think they have any other options with that kind of overhead. They have already planned to open the lodge as a regular restaurant for year round operation and I am sure that will help pay the bills.


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

gandergrinder said:


> I don't think its ok to use a... waterfowl guide... at all.


Try taking 8 guys on a hunting trip to some place you have never been before, 2000 miles from home, and you have 5 days for your trip. How do you make that trip work without hiring help?


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

You can make connections with people if you are willing to work at it. I will refuse use of a guide just because I know what it does for the rest of the guys living in that area who hunt waterfowl. I'm not saying that some people who use guides are not good hunters I just refuse to use one.

I would be willing to take guys out hunting with me in ND more just so they could experience the place except everytime I do it bites me in the ***.

Next thing you know they bring 6 of there buddies and hunt the spots you brought them to all season.

My dad came and hunted with me for pheasants and one of his friends said "How come you don't invite me to go hunting with you" My dad replied because its not my show.

There are places I only take certain people and there are places that I get to go because I don't go and show everyone after I have been there. My dad and I were invited to hunt with a few guys this season because they knew we were not going to show everyone or hunt it everyday.

If many of the good areas were not leased out and land access was not an issue people would not be so protective of the spots that they are able to hunt and we wouldn't need guides. People from different areas could share these things with each other.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

I've seen that guided crap on t.v a hundred times and can't see what the "SHOOTER" gets out of it. Yeah I'd love to hunt a lot of different spiecies of "big game" but if it means I have to have a guy walk or drive me to the animal and then tell me when I should shoot, well then I'd rather not do it at all. These farms may serve some purposes for some, but it sure isn't my cup of tea!! Nor anyone elses that I know!! :eyeroll:


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

gandergrinder said:


> You can make connections with people if you are willing to work at it. I will refuse use of a guide just because I know what it does for the rest of the guys living in that area who hunt waterfowl. I'm not saying that some people who use guides are not good hunters I just refuse to use one.


I agree with you for the most part but you said earlier that you didnt think it was okay at all. I dont prefer to use guides but I have been in a position to where we felt like we had no other choice if we wanted to hunt.

It just isnt feasible to take the trip I described without help. How are you going to connect with someone you have never met in a place you have never been and then expect them to offer use of layout blinds, full body decoys and other needed gear? You can rule out driving 4000 miles so you are stuck flying. You figure the first and last days of the trip are travel days leaving you 3 days to hunt. Of those 3 days how much hunting are you going to get in after you do the required scouting & gaining permission? Maybe 2 days? I couldnt put up my money and time or ask my buddies to do the same based on the hope that our generous connection comes through with gear and we are able to find a place to hunt. I have tried it before and been met with nothing but dissapointment.

I am just pointing out that there are very valid reasons for using a service in certain circumstances. I wish this wasnt the case and the rest of the US was more like ND. I have lived in many places and travelled through 32 different states and I can say that ND is definitely in a category by itself when it comes to hunting and land access.


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## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

I agree with GG about not using a guide for any type of hunting.I have friends and relatives that big game hunt out west quite often and have never used a guide.They are fairly successful(depending on how much work they want to put into it).Some states have areas where a guide is required,such as the wilderness areas in Montana and Wyoming.Using a guide in North Dakota is a waste of money.Unless of course you have absolutely no hunting skills, and just want to kill some birds just to say you did it.GG,In the 80s into the early 90s people were very open about where they hunted.I noticed most hunters respected other peoples spots and were more willing to share information(of course there were waaay less hunters back then).I agree that times have changed and the person that you gave a tip on a hunting location might either buy or lease,or hunt the crap out of it.I know the general areas where Hustad,Doug,and GB3,and duxnbux hunt and dont hunt those areas unless invited.If I see birds using a field in say Dougs area I will call him and let him know about it,and maybe hunt it together in a day or two.I guess I got a little off track here on the isue of high buck hunting clubs,so sorry about the rambling. mallard


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

It has it's place - But there are way too many people, with too much disposable income now days & now with the internet, it is easier than ever to find guides (their everywhere the birds are) You got the money someone will have the time & place & gear

Even going to Sask. for us - takes time - a day to scout & get permission & make plans - it's a days drive there & back - if they (birds) go somewhere else, it's hard to have a plan B unless you have smoozed alot in town, or spent time in a area to know where the birds are feeding.

- If money were No Problem, I'd love to go seaduck hunting someday - But to totally Freelance a hunt like that would be a hassle - unless you have made connections online or know someone, in the right places - so it could be wise to hire a guide

- I'm not totally against Guides - I just Hate it when thay want to monopolize a area & have way more places than they use or need - especially in a State like ND that has the Laws we do - thats why they are trying so hard to rally support, to change our laws - & Get NR's all pizzed off & small towns & landowners & legislators, so they can appear to have supporters, or get supporters with mis-information - (& way too many have fell sucker for their tactics & don't even know it :******: )

They are normally way ahead of us in the political game & really they are a minority, that really does not do as much for areas / towns as they lead so many to believe :eyeroll: & thats Sad !!!

There are still other options, that are possible - (Here in ND) that could make ND even better than it ever has been - but will those in charge & those that make the rules, listen ???

Will they (guides) be ahead of us again next session ??? Has their been any real moves to unite all that care & understand all this & want to protect what we have & have had ??? Is their a real leader group - that is respected & most can get behind ???

We better do it soon


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## Rangers (Dec 13, 2003)

Mallard, I guess I just don't get it. It would sound like, the guys you mention, Hustad, GB3, Duxnbux, have a large area tied up and you feel as though you could not ask permission to hunt land they don't own. Do they have a lease agrement with the land owner. Or is it just a gentlemens agreement, that you would not hunt their area. How about if you did not know these guys and were scouting saw the birds and asked.

I don't think it matters how you pay for it, cash, helping out in the summer with chores or field work, or with fish and gift certificates, it all ties up land for certain indivduals who then bring friends (see guide) to reap the harvest.

I'm not saying it is wrong, I just say call it what it is, leasing land for your own use, and no one else, unless you ask them to come with.


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## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

It is a gentlemens agreement.I could see that if you didnt know anyone and got permission to hunt and did so,who could blame you(unless you were hunting a roost of course).There are no leases and as far as I know I could get on much of the land in those areas,but I dont.I respect the areas these guys like to hunt.I dont think any of them tie up land for themseves,even though they might have gotten to know the landowners.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

If you want to use a guide then I'm not going to hate you or think your a bad person. I just don't like guides. In some places and instances they are probably appropriate. Maybe in your instance it was the thing you had to do, but I guess that I am willing to sacrifice some personal gain for the good of the cause so to speak. In the big picture I don't see a future that is very rosey for hunting and I don't believe that guides boasting of guaranteed limits and don't pay if you don't kill type of ads are what hunting needs right now. Therefore I don't support it.

We live in an economy where you vote with your dollars. I just refuse to patronize something that is going to send hunting into the history books.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

boy oh boy, you think thats bad, I go to school with a girl who goes to the highschool in the rich yuppy part of the city, I asked her what she shot and she told me a, get this $13,000 Kreighoff. I told her that i shoot a remington wingmaster from the early 50's (my prized posession, passed down from my grandfather) and she near spit in my face. I cant believe these rich people who think that the sun shines out of their cornhole alone. oh well, let them enjoy their 13,000 kreighoff and their twohundred year old wine. we know where the real fun is.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

I have never used a guide to hunt, but I do think that they have their place. For North Dakota, I don't think that a guide is necessary. However, I would love to go on a duck hunting trip in flooded timber down in Arkansas. I might also want to experience a duck hunt in South America. Now, I have limited vacation days, so I would probably have to find a guide advertised in a sporting magazine, the internet, or a local newspaper to point in the right direction of a place to go. Hiring a guide to get you access to a hunting spot is much different than going on a "put and take" hunt like some have described.

For many working Americans, they have more disposable money than disposable time. In ND, it's probably just the opposite.

I've been think about this some more, specifically about outfits that raise and release animals for "hunting". If you read the NDGF stocking reports, almost all waters of ND have stocked fish. Most of these lakes would not have fish if NDGF didn't stock them. When I am catching perch on some of these lakes, am I a "put and take" fisherman? Why or why not?

That should generate some debate....


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I agree to some degree

I'd love to seaduck hunt someday & I'd hire a guide for that & I'm sure there are some who want to shoot a SOB & it would be hard if you didn't have the gear or knowledge - But ducks & upland ??? even Canada Geese are plentiful in most areas :roll: - It seems silly to me :lol: especially if they are just ruining Freelance hunting :eyeroll:

& your right Fish are stocked (alot were put in by the railroads too)

& Pheasants & partridge are not native

I just hate to see G/O getting more (too much of the better areas) so much that hiring a Guide is the only way to get to hunt :eyeroll: they should be limited or have to really pay - so other lands can be made public

It is sad to watch ND turn into a Arkansas or Texas - & many other states - turning a Outdoor recreation into a for Profit Business - just seems wrong


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

I agree Fetch. A freelancer (resident or non-resident) should be able to find birds in ND without a guide. However, there are going to be folks that want to shoot a few birds that either don't have decoys and other gear, or that don't have the slightest clue where to go or what type of habitat to look for.

Watching our natural resources (or at least access to natural resources) being bought and sold is heartbreaking. However, in a cash-strapped state like ND, this is not surprising, especially with the current agricultural economy. The question, hashed and rehashed on this page, is how do we stop or reduce it? As long as some folks have expendable cash that they are willing to dish out, we freelancers continue to get squeezed out.


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