# The "Maverick" moment of yesterday



## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Ouch.

Here we go again.. just how senile is this guy? :eyeroll:

In*an interview with Politico *yesterday, John McCain said he couldn't remember how many houses he owns:



> Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said in an interview Wednesday that he was uncertain how many houses he and his wife, Cindy, own.
> 
> "I think - I'll have my staff get to you," McCain told Politico in Las Cruces, N.M. "It's condominiums where - I'll have them get to you."
> 
> His staff came back with the correct answer being at least four, located in Arizona, California and Virginia.


Ummmm.... no.

Actually, based on research by the Obama camp, that answer is wrong too... the correct answer is....

*7*

Now I don't know about you all, but I occasionally forget or misplace 2 or 3 houses I own all the time. 

Here is the commercial generated from that interview. 1 day turnaround... not too shabby:


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## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

Who really cares how many houses the guy owns? Everyone knows he and his wife are very wealthy. Why does that make him a bad candidate? Do you really want us to say I am going to vote for Obama because he can't afford to own 7 houses? Maybe the point flew way over my head on this one.

I get that you are trying to say that he is old and forgetful, but the commercial is just stupid.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

The point of the story is that once again he FORGOT something that should be quite easy to remember. Who cares how many he owns.. I could care less too...

I just don't want my Commander in Chief forgetting critical things, let alone a simple answer like how many houses he owns. Gee maybe he'll forget that pesky little country that contains nukes... let's see.. was that Iraq? Afghanistand? Pakistan? Syria? Iran? Georgia? OF those do you know how many are nuclear armed? Without looking it up? I bet he would stumble on that answer.

Secondly, the other underlying subtle point, is that how can this man possibly be in touch with how the average Joe lives? With Americans struggling to afford their lone single mortgage on their house, this guy has 7 and he can't even remember 3 of them. Geeesshhh. I'm sure when he says "You know I understand your struggles. I can empathize with the economic uncertainty you feel..."

Ya right.


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## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

I agree that most politicians are out of touch with reality. Hillary didn't even know how to use a coffee pot at a gas station. Last time I checked Barack and Michelle aren't living in the poor house. I don't think they fit the average Joe mold any better than the McCain's do. However, I do hope that the Dem's continue wasting their time with feeble attempts such as this. They will keep slipping down if this is all they can come up with.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ryan....

I am not sure of this fact. But he might be invested in a property management company. Which in turns buys and sells homes and manages them for him.

So that company could be buying and selling homes all the time. So one month/year it could be 5 homes....the next 10. Who know what those investors are doing with his money other than trying to make him more.

This really has nothing to do with him running for president. You say he is forgetful. I say his mind is on more important things.....like running for president!

This is just mud slinging. I would rather see adds attacking his stances on important subjects.....like illegal immigration, enviromental issues, engery issues, economic issues, world issues, etc. Who cares if a guy forgot how many homes he owns (when he owns a few which are investment properties) and he forgets because the question threw him off. I care about real issues.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Iraq? Afghanistand? Pakistan? Syria? Iran? Georgia? OF those do you know how many are nuclear armed? Without looking it up? I bet he would stumble on that answer.


If you have the answer to that Ryan call the pentagon fast they want to know too. 



> Secondly, the other underlying subtle point, is that how can this man possibly be in touch with how the average Joe lives? With Americans struggling to afford their lone single mortgage on their house, this guy has 7 and he can't even remember 3 of them. Geeesshhh. I'm sure when he says "You know I understand your struggles. I can empathize with the economic uncertainty you feel..."


That's just class envy. Do you think Obama is in touch better? What was it a month they paid for dance lessons for the kids? I think it was around $1000 a month. Am I jealous? No, I don't care if Obama's house is worth millions, and a decision for president should not be based on jealousy. I don't think the more money you have the more out of touch you are. Think of it this way Ryan. Since you are working and making a lot more money than this old retired geezer do you think you are less in touch?


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## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

I saw an article on this topic on Yahoo. Here is the McCain camp's response: 


> McCain spokesman Brian Rogers said in response: "Does a guy who made more than $4 million last year, just got back from vacation on a private beach in Hawaii and bought his own million-dollar mansion with the help of a convicted felon really want to get into a debate about houses? Does a guy who worries about the price of arugula and thinks regular people 'cling' to guns and religion in the face of economic hardship really want to have a debate about who's in touch with regular Americans?
> 
> "The reality is that Barack Obama's plans to raise taxes and opposition to producing more energy here at home as gas prices skyrocket show he's completely out of touch with the concerns of average Americans."


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Chuck Smith said:


> Ryan....
> 
> I am not sure of this fact. But he might be invested in a property management company. Which in turns buys and sells homes and manages them for him.
> 
> ...


Chuck this isn't a one time ha ha thing.

It is a continued obvious pattern of forgetting things. It also shows how out of touch he is.

I'm pretty damn certain that every home owner on this board knows exactly what where and how much their property is....

You are trying to explain it away by guessing that he belongs to an Asset exchange or management group. And I give you props... that is quite likely true. I'm not denying that their might be something to that. Given that may be the case, I'm still certain that even moderately wealthy people know where there assets are being invested. I can tell you exactly where mine are. But there comes a point when you are so wealthy that you do honestly forget about some property you own. It happens.

So we have either one of two scenarios.

1, He forgot. It slipped his mind because his mind is slipping. That is a scary prospect given he is going to be Commander in Chief of the world's most powerful military.

or 2, He didn't forget and simply has so much $$ and real estate invested, that happens too once you have become so rich that individual property doesn't matter. That too is a problem because it means he has lost touch with the struggles of ordinary folks.

I realize that to a degree all politicians at that level and backing will be wealthier than average. No doubt.

But he is trying to become PRESIDENT. This is the FINAL EXAM for the most important test of his life and career. This is no time to flunk, or even get a C grade. He needs to ACE A+ this test. The United States and the rest of the free world need a competent leader who remembers details about a HUGE range of things.

You consider it mud slinging? Not in regards to this kind of stuff. The same way all the Obama mud slinging has happened over the past 2 weeks nationally, and here on Nodak? Right.

I'm not crazy about either candidate. But at least one of them has the memory and intelligence worthy of a President. We've just gotten done experiencing what 8 years of a C- student gets us.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> or 2, He didn't forget and simply has so much $$ and real estate invested, that happens too once you have become so rich that individual property doesn't matter. That too is a problem because it means he has lost touch with the struggles of ordinary folks.


Why do you care? I didn't know wealth made you out of touch. Do you think John Kennedy was out of touch? Quick call Bill Gates and tell him how out of touch he is.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Yes Plainsman it can make you out of touch... not everyone... but certain people it does change them.

This story is starting to gain HUGE momentum folks...

This has the potential to be a big-*maybe devastating-moment for McCain.* And it's a huge opportunity for Obama. Team Obama knows this, which is why they've followed up their tough new commercial with a series of attempts to escalate the issue. There was this from the candidate himself this morning:






I think Obama explains it well...

And then the Obama campaign announced it would be holding press conferences in front of homes around the country to amplify the message that while Americans are hurting because of the housing crunch and the economy in general, McCain can't even remember how many homes he owns.

In regards to your comment above about the McCain campaign response:



> Does a guy who made more than $4 million last year, just got back from vacation on a private beach in Hawaii and bought his own million-dollar mansion with the help of a convicted felon really want to get into a debate about houses?


You have to ask yourself, um, wasn't it John McCain who said at the recent Saddleback forum that you're not rich unless you make $5 million? By that standard, Obama (who made only $4 million last year) is not the guy the McCain camp wants you to think he is.

Look, in reality, both of these guys are rich. But in a fight over who's wealthier, and who made his money the easy way (McCain, by marrying into it) as opposed to the hard way (Obama, by writing a great memoir), I think it's pretty clear that Obama wins. And on the more basic issue of not being able to remember how many homes you own-that's just bad in so many ways for McCain (highlighting his age, his admitted lack of interest in economics, and his actual lifestyle) that Obama, who only owns one home, albeit a very fancy one, has little to worry about in escalating this further.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ryan....

You think McCain has lost touch with the common people......You think Obama knows what is going on with the common folk. You think he know what is going on with the local people in ND, SD, MN, WI or anywhere in the midwest. I would say not.

Most of all Presidental Canidates only know of east coast, west coast and there home states issues. Because that is where the most votes are.

Also you say most people know where there investment are and what they are doing.......I beg to differ. Most people know they have a 401K or mutual funds or IRA. But do they know what those companies in those funds are doing with there money? Most don't. They just know if they are making or losing money.


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## Bgunit68 (Dec 26, 2006)

But I heard Obama defended him. He said some days he can't remember how many turbans he owns. Ironically the number is also 7. One for each day of the week.


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## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

As I said before, I am happy that the Dem's find it so important to call so much attention to a non issue. People can see through stuff like this so easy. They are making themselves look like idiots. Ryan, you accused many people on here for grasping at straws last week. How does it feel?


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## jgat (Oct 27, 2006)

Ooh, one more thing. If this is the kind of fodder you are going to post when it is time for you to speak up for McCain's side (like you said you were going to do), please don't bother.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Actually that clip should help McCain.

The first thought I had was this is just more class warfare, trying to get people to dislike anyone with more than they have. I noticed he said not like him with just one house. I wonder how many people were thinking about how many million that "just one house" was worth?

Remember when the stock market hit 10,000 under Bush. The media was on the verge of a Clintongasm. When it went beyond 12,000 and higher during the Bush administration did we hear anything? Not a chance of a squeak coming from the media. Where is it at now? Obama wants us to think it's terrible.

The housing foreclosures are not an indicator of the economy. They are an indicator of how many people are stupid enough to buy beyond their means. Some knew it, and didn't care they thought they could just drop it back on the bank and move on. No sense of responsibility in either group.

One of the glaring things is Obama didn't speak that well. Gone was the eloquence that shallow people so admire. What is important is what a man says, not so much how he says it. In Obamas case it was baiting the voters. Have you ever noticed that everyone thinks they are hard up for money. The guy who makes ¼ million looks at the millionaire and feels sorry for himself. The millionaire looks at Bill Gates and feels sorry for himself. That's why the liberals have worked class warfare for all it's worth. If you don't think so look at Obama in the clip brings up McCain thinks your not rich unless you make over 5 million. Obama isn't that stupid. It only takes two firing brains cells to recognize a joke when you hear it. Obama thinking himself so intellectually superior believes that he can talk the average (stupid) voter into believing his rendition. I think he is underestimating the average American. He insults our intelligence, and I for one don't appreciate that condescension.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Chuck Smith said:


> Ryan....
> 
> You think McCain has lost touch with the common people......You think Obama knows what is going on with the common folk. You think he know what is going on with the local people in ND, SD, MN, WI or anywhere in the midwest. I would say not.
> 
> Most of all Presidental Canidates only know of east coast, west coast and there home states issues. Because that is where the most votes are.


Chuck

Yes I do. Obama is much less far removed than McCain. He had a middle class upbringing, and up until last year was still paying off his student loans in installment payments. Up until last year when his book sold he was not a multi millionaire. No doubt they were becoming more wealthy as a family, but they weren't in the millions.



Chuck Smith said:


> Also you say most people know where there investment are and what they are doing.......I beg to differ. Most people know they have a 401K or mutual funds or IRA. But do they know what those companies in those funds are doing with there money? Most don't. They just know if they are making or losing money.


I beg to differ. Do you realize what type of assets and investment vehicles people of his wealth spend their money on? Do you think McCain has a 401K ?

We aren't talking 401, Mutual Funds, Hedge Funds etc here... this is real property. BIG difference. People at McCains income bracket are investing in Billion dollar companies, Foreign Currencies, skyscrapers, and islands in foreign countries. I damn well gurantee you that Richard Branson from Virgin knows EXACTLY where all his property in the world exists. He has enough of a sharp mind to remember these things.

Let's make sure we are looking at this thru the eyes of those we are talking about. You are missing perspective.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

jgat said:


> As I said before, I am happy that the Dem's find it so important to call so much attention to a non issue. People can see through stuff like this so easy. They are making themselves look like idiots. Ryan, you accused many people on here for grasping at straws last week. How does it feel?


Just watch the news tonite and in coming days... remember this.

Ask me again when this becomes a central theme of his candidacy.

Memory, and relating to middle America.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Actually that clip should help McCain.
> 
> The first thought I had was this is just more class warfare, trying to get people to dislike anyone with more than they have. I noticed he said not like him with just one house. I wonder how many people were thinking about how many million that "just one house" was worth?





Plainsman said:


> That's why the liberals have worked class warfare for all it's worth. If you don't think so look at Obama in the clip brings up McCain thinks your not rich unless you make over 5 million. Obama isn't that stupid. It only takes two firing brains cells to recognize a joke when you hear it. Obama thinking himself so intellectually superior believes that he can talk the average (stupid) voter into believing his rendition. I think he is underestimating the average American. He insults our intelligence, and I for one don't appreciate that condescension.


Please.

We all know that Republicans scream against class warfare because they know it works wonderfully. They've used it effectively for 25 years with "intellectual elitism" or just good old-fashioned class warfare. All the Dems needs to show is as many ads featuring Cindy McCain's flippant remarks about buying a private jets or McCain saying you have to have $5 million to be rich as possible to counter that argument.

The fact that Obama is rich is irrelevant (think of Mr. populist champion of the working man FDR who makes Obama look like a pauper in comparison), the honest narrative that needs to be spun is that McCain/Bush are completely callous and removed from the economic recession, which based on their recent remarks you have to think they are.

I continually hear the terms "class warfare" and "intellectual elitism", but they have become old hollow terms. Obama does not insult the intelligence of millions who listen to his message. They evaluate it for themselves as being accurate and making common sense.

Just because you are looking thru it with a certain shade of glasses, doesn't make it so for everyone.

I can almost hear the wheels spinning in the McCain camp right now, thinking up a damage control strategy, where maybe they can spin this story in such a way that they point out something about Obama and say "See See...lookee over at him... he owns more than one house too". However the difference is, Barack has taken the American dream and made something of himself based on his own hard work. Up until a couple years ago, he was just a lawyer who was also a State Rep, going to work every morning in his middle income home. Isn't that exactly the type of person who only recently became rich, the type of person that still remembers 2 years ago what it was like to have to juggle bills. Now think about McCain, and how many decades ago it was since the last time he had to worry about bills.

Barack has never said he wasn't rich, but he did grow up poor, which is more than can be said for McCain, Cheney, and Bush.

Consider who has more perspective of the average American based on how they grew up. Look at the candidates lives growing up, and ask yourself again who really knows what it was like to struggle and work themselves into something based on their own hard work and merits.

If you start asking the real questions, maybe you'll arrive at the real answers.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ryan......

Many major investors/wealthy people (Like Mc Cain) put there money into a bank, company, investment firm, etc. Then these vehicles purchase land, homes, islands, other companies, stocks, grain, farms, etc. So for people like Mc Cain to know exactly where his money is can be difficult.

But I am not sure if this is the case or not. That is why when the media jumps all over something I don't jump on board with the media.

Because the media shows us what they want us to know.....ie bigfoot body finding.....the wild boar invasive species in MN......etc.

My examples of 401K's and what not is showing how well does everyday people know what there investments are doing business wise.

Do they really know what those companies are doing, how they conduct business, what these companies are investing in, etc.

So saying one person is forgetful or absentminded is very hypocritical.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I continually hear the terms "class warfare" and "intellectual elitism", but they have become old hollow terms.


What is old is the same old story about the terrible rich, and how smart liberals are. You think it has gone away? You stepped in it again today yourself:


> and for how many of those watching, that the point (message) went right directly over their head.


The same old story, conservatives can't understand the complex things liberals do. That doesn't convince anyone, it simply turns them off to anything else you have to say. 
I hope I am more convincing. I don't think education is a measure of intelligence, it's a measure of training. There may be a person living in a thatched roof hut in Africa that is smarter than you, or I, or the leading scholars of this nation. He just hasn't had the training. 
I doubt there has been anything presented on this form that anyone missed the meaning of. The ones that don't agree, don't agree because their life has different priorities, not that they are to stupid to understand. 
Perfect opportunity for me to tell everyone on here how much I respect them. That includes the liberals. 
I don't put importance on fluff. I don't put importance on how a man says something, I put importance on what he says. Many evil people can talk a good line. Look at Hitler for example. The clip of Obama convinced me that I like the man less. I like him less because it is evident he thinks I have no capacity for logic. 
I predict Obama will get a little boost from the national convention. He will loose it by the end of the national republican convention. He will decline from there, and it will be because of clips like the above. Once he draws attention to himself, and more people actually look as the election draws nearer the less they will like what they see. Most of them took McCains remark about five million as a joke. They will see Obama repeat it and look at it as a cheap shot. I do, and there must be at least one more person on here that will agree with me.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Most of them took McCains remark about five million as a joke. They will see Obama repeat it and look at it as a cheap shot. I do, and there must be at least one more person on here that will agree with me.


I agree......

Obama's campaign is attacking a guy for not remembering how many investments he has.....(I get it class diversity).

But yet they are not attacking Mc Cain stances on the issues......economic plan, medicare issues, immigration issues, social security issues, decline of the US $, trade deficits, energy issues, etc.

Obama has flip flopped on many of these issues. So now they are grasping at straws. IMO

Now when campaign's (either side) do this type of thing.....makes me think what kind of canidate they really are. Attack/debate the real issues.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

R y a n said:


> I can almost hear the wheels spinning in the McCain camp right now, thinking up a damage control strategy, where maybe they can spin this story in such a way that they point out something about Obama and say "See See...lookee over at him... he owns more than one house too".


Ahh yes... we see the wheels have indeed been busily grinding away to spin this story...

To wit:

*Which home do you think McCain prefers talking about?* Not any of his current seven homes, but a home from wayyyy back when.

Here's *McCain spokesman Brian Rogers, defending McCain* from today's attacks on his current real estate portfolio:



> This is a guy who lived in one house for five and a half years - in prison.


If that sounds familiar, *it should.*

The response earlier this week to questions about whether John McCain cheated at the Saddleback forum: "How dare you, he was a POW."

The response today to questions about his seven houses: "How dare you, he was a POW."

_Now_ who's playing cards?

Does anyone ever get to ask him questions without him reverting to that answer?

Hmm?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Has the media asked Kennedy how many houses he has. Have they asked Pelosi. I could go on, but you can see they grasp at straws. What has how many houses have to do with anything. This is nuts. Try finding something substantial. 
If he gives you one will it be ok then. 

How about illegal aliens? How about Iran? How about taxs? Is there something worth talking about?


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

R y a n said:


> Ouch.
> 
> Here we go again.. just how senile is this guy? :eyeroll:


oh yes, i agree, this will definately sway some voters on the fence. very likely these are properties that his wife owns and he has likely never even been in all of them.....yes, critical campaign issue, NO-bama must investigate throughly! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Annnd here we have round 2 of the McCain spin machine resonding to this increasingly embarassingly story from yesterday.

It is sorta funny...The McCain response ad starts out with a bang. (Literally. The sound effect sounds to me far more explosive than the usual sinister bass beat that accompanies attack commercials.)

But from there on out it feels pretty weak:






The origin of the controversy.. you know.. *McCain's seven or eight houses-is so politically combustible that the ad can't mention it, so that attack on Obama's housing problems seems pretty disconnected*.

(And its from an old dried up story that died months ago, for anyone who was following the Democratic primaries.)

I believe this is supposed to air on national cable.... but you can always say you saw it from me here first on Nodak! 

Boy, they must be getting dizzy from the different ways they are trying to spin this story.

:lol:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I like the last couple of sentences in this article:



> McCain unsure how many houses he owns
> Thu Aug 21
> 
> Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said in an interview Wednesday that he was uncertain how many houses he and his wife, Cindy, own.
> ...


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