# measuring groups



## huntingfool? (Jan 6, 2006)

I read alot on rifle accuracy and opinions while investigating for a varmint rifle. I saved and then purchased a Remington 700 VSSF in .22-250.

I finaly got to sight it in this morning. Used a few different types of rounds and one shot alot better than the others. About 3/4 of the three shot groups I shot with the one round will fit or almost fit underneath a dime. This made me very happy. When I measure this do I measure the farthest widths or make a circle encompassing the shots and measure from the center of the circle?

Thanks for the info.


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## jakester (Apr 13, 2004)

What difference does it make if they fit under a dime or a quarter??  Regardless, you'll obviously hit whatever you are shooting at and make 
a clean kill and that's what is important. Would you NOT buy a rifle if
it "only" shot 1" groups??


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## TheDogSlayer (Feb 2, 2006)

Measure from the center of the hole otherwise your group size would grow if you shoot the same size group with a larger caliber.


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Huntingfool,

Sounds like you are on to a good rifle. I have a nearly identical rifle although not stainless steel or fluted and It also shoots like that unless I am screwing it up.

This is what I read on how groups are supposed to be measured for benchrest competitions. My memory may be a bit fuzzy on this so If anyone has heard any different I would like to know but I believe the below info is correct.

Measure the distance between the farthest apart two shots from the outside edge of the bullet holes with a dial caliper or what ever wil get you close and then subtract the diameter of the bullet. That is your group size whether its 3,5 or 10 shot groups.

Farthest apart bullet holes= 3/4 inch - 1/4 inch bullet diameter = 1/2 inch group.

And yes, I would not buy a gun that shot 1 inch groups if I could buy one that would shoot better but thats just me. I read an article by Major Boddingtin(sp?) in which he claims that 1 moa accuracy( 1 inch groups) in his opinion is not up to snuff for varmint hunting. I dont recall the magazine but I can find it at home if anyone is interested. I am also convinced that most rifles made today by Savage, Remington, Browning, Winchester, Ruger and almost all others will shoot better than the owner is capable of shooting them so when someone buys a new rifle and claims it wont shoot, unfortunately its probably the shooters fault.

Jaybic

Jay


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## jerry hunsley (Jan 20, 2006)

huntingfool? said:


> I read alot on rifle accuracy and opinions while investigating for a varmint rifle. I saved and then purchased a Remington 700 VSSF in .22-250.
> 
> I finaly got to sight it in this morning. Used a few different types of rounds and one shot alot better than the others. About 3/4 of the three shot groups I shot with the one round will fit or almost fit underneath a dime. This made me very happy. When I measure this do I measure the farthest widths or make a circle encompassing the shots and measure from the center of the circle?
> 
> Thanks for the info.


 I had that very same rifle and I found it a little tempermental. The load that worked for me was 50 gr. V-max with 41 grains of Winchester 760. It's a nice little gun! You'll enjoy it.


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## huntingfool? (Jan 6, 2006)

Thanks for the help.

I did see how it could be a little tempermental. The Federal rounds I shot produced multiple groups three to four times the size of the others.

I got lucky so far. The best groups came from the cheapest rounds.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Jaybic, measuring from center to center of the two farthest holes should give you the same reading. least that is how I have always done it. Seems like 5 shot groups use to be the norm but 3 shot groups have come from out in use lately. I still use the old 5 shot grouping.


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Gohon,

I agree with your measuring method. It still gives the same size. I also like to shoot at least 5 shot groups because in my opinion, while 3 shots are a good initial test, they also may be a fluke. I have shot 5 shot groups to test a load where the first 3 shots nearly touch and then the next two are 2 inches away. I think maybe I blew it on the last two shots so I try it again only to have nearly the same result.

Now I dont trust a load until it will repeatedly shoot all 5 shots under a quarter(I actually use a quarter)multiple times and then fine tune seating depth and often times to prove a load(and the gun and shooter) I will shoot a 7 or even 10 shot group to finish the process off.

I also found out that I have better and worse days at the range and a person will have flyers from time to time but when your load will put 7 or 8 out of 10 in a row under a dime you have a definte keeper in my opinion. Besides that it also makes your confidence as a shooter skyrocket! Who ever heard of a person that was too good a shot or had too accurate of a rifle? Good luck :beer:

Jaybic


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## VarmintHunter117 (May 28, 2005)

hummm.. the increase in the group could be you or it could be as the barrel is warming up... but it really shouldn't w/ only 5 rounds. then again it depends on how fast your shooting ur group.

just my lil 2 cents


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Varminthunter117,

Thats kinda what I was thinking at first too. Its a heavy barrel gun and most of my shooting is in the late fall getting ready for calling season so I thought barrel heating issues would be minimal. I also like to take a little time between shots so I know thats not happening.

What I also found out was that in the course of shooting all those groups I became a better shot and the groups improved. I also realized that when I did find a good load I could print 7 or even 10 shot groups and the odd flyers tended to disappear so it couldnt be barrel heating. I just didnt make sense to me that a 5 shot group would expand due to barrel temp but a 10 shot group with a different load wouldnt. That first load just wasnt as consistant but had I only shot 3 shot groups I wouldnt know that but you hit it on the head. Your ideas were exactly what I thought is was at first too. Thanks for the input though :beer:

jaybic


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Varminthunter117,

Thats kinda what I was thinking at first too. Its a heavy barrel gun and most of my shooting is in the late fall getting ready for calling season so I thought barrel heating issues would be minimal. I also like to take a little time between shots so I know thats not happening.

What I also found out was that in the course of shooting all those groups I became a better shot and the groups improved. I also realized that when I did find a good load I could print 7 or even 10 shot groups and the odd flyers tended to disappear so it couldnt be barrel heating. I just didnt make sense to me that a 5 shot group would expand due to barrel temp but a 10 shot group with a different load wouldnt. That first load just wasnt as consistant but had I only shot 3 shot groups I wouldnt know that but you hit it on the head. Your ideas were exactly what I thought is was at first too. Thanks for the input though :beer:

jaybic


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