# Bio Diesel



## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Ok guys, I'm a little torqued about this foriegn oil thing still.
I just read an article in Western Livestock Journal about a new bio diesel plant going in. 
It seems to me that the reason we're having so many problems in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Middle East is because we're paying them to make the problems! If we were to cut off the money by stopping the purchase of fuel, it seems to me we'd end the problem! Broke people can't make problems!?!?!?! Can you imagine the Middle East with no oil sales? 
I was just in Saskatchewan, and everyone there is singing the blues about low grain prices, high fuel prices, etc,......Plainsman said in an earlier post that ethanol wasn't an efficient option to gasoline, so,.......biodiesel? Can you imagine the mid west selling a fuel cash crop to The States, China, Japan, and the rest?
Folks, we gotta, we just gotta quit funding the terrorists. I hear that alot of Europe already uses diesel for fuel in autos, so I wonder if we couldn't do the same with bio? 
Hey, I've heard I've been wrong alot before, somebody tell me why I'm wrong about this.
If I'm off base on this bio diesel,


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Yes Yes Bio diesal. its the ansewer.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Arctic plainsman

I don't know much about the biodiesel. I burned a couple tanks full, but then drove into a headwind. I normally get abut 18.5 mpg at 75mph, but got about 16mpg. It was as likely the wind as anything else, so I really don't know.

I have not seen any studies on the economic or energy input to produce bio diesel . I would be for anything that is energy saving and produces less hydrocarbons. I guess I should get off my behind and check this out.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

We had problems with Bio diesel last winter, had to cut back to 2.5% from 5% or it would gell up all the time.

They may have the problems worked out with this now though with additives or formulation changes.


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

As I understand biodieselhas a shelf life of about 6 months. Strait biodiesel will gel at about 34 degrees, 5% blend will start to gell at about 28-30, and a 2% blend won't gell untill about -5. I would think a lot of the winter heating could be done with biodiesel with no problems. In the summer months all truck and ag equipment could use it, and I would love to be in the energy business. As I see it, we need to as a country stop the money flow out of our country, reduce the ammount of food available for export, and use ag products for our energy. Russa is starting to get up to date in the ag sector and I think will be the biggest food source for China in the next 10 years or so. If we can produce our own oil alternatives here now or very soon we still influance the auto world market. Soon, with China seeming to be more socialistic in nature and India having more economic stability we very soon will not be the driving force in this market. If we make these changes we can position our nation to be still in the game. If not, we will be loosing ground very soon and we could very well become like old Europ as far as our standard of living and world economic impact. As I see it, we need to do this if we are to maintain our world statis as a, no THE Super Power Nation. Casn you think of what would happen if the ag market totaly was crushed by Russa comming on line and having a rail system directly to China? Its tough in the ag sector right now, but a state like North Dakota would have no people in it once you got past the eastern 30 miles of the red river valley. Minnesota, life along I-94 but not much else. South Dakota? The whole mid-section of the US? We need to keep money here, we need more of other countries money here, I don't want to live like they do in most of Europe. I like cheap food, cheap gas, good schools, and people living out in the rural areas to keep an eye on things. If we make a demand for the products, we can grow them, and perhaps we can keep things going.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Here is some info. Doesn't appear to have a net energy loss. But, consider the source.

http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/fuel ... yAsked.PDF

What is biodiesel?

Biodiesel is the name of a clean burning alternative fuel produced from domestic, renewable resources. Biodiesel contains no petroleum, but it can be blended at any level with petroleum diesel to create a biodiesel blend. It can be used in compressionignition (diesel) engines with no major modifications. Biodiesel is simple to use, biodegradable, nontoxic, and essentially free of sulfur and aromatics. Technical Definition: Biodiesel, n-a fuel composed of mono-alkyl esters of long chain fatty acids derived from vegetable oils or animal fats, designated B100, and meeting
the requirements of ASTM (American Society for Testing & Materials) D 6751.

Is biodiesel used as a pure fuel or is it blended with petroleum diesel?

Biodiesel can be used as a pure fuel or blended with petroleum in any percentage. B20 (a blend of 20 percent biodiesel with 80 percent petroleum diesel) has demonstrated significant environmental benefits with a minimum increase in cost for fleet operations and other consumers.

Is it approved for use in the U.S.?

Biodiesel is registered as a fuel and fuel additive with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and meets clean diesel standards established by the California Air Resources Board (CARB). Neat (100 percent) biodiesel has been designated as an alternative fuel by the Department of Energy (DOE) and the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT).

How do biodiesel emissions compare to petroleum diesel?

Biodiesel is the only alternative fuel to have fully completed the health effects testing requirements of the Clean Air Act. The use of biodiesel in a conventional diesel engine results in a substantial reduction of unburned hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide, and particulate matter compared to emissions from diesel fuel. In addition, the exhaust emissions of sulfur oxides and sulfates (major components of acid rain) from biodiesel
are essentially eliminated compared to diesel. Of the major exhaust pollutants, both unburned hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides are
ozone or smog forming precursors. The use of biodiesel results in a substantial reduction of unburned hydrocarbons. Emissions of nitrogen oxides are either slightly reduced or slightly increased depending on the duty cycle of the engine and testing methods used. Based on engine testing, using the most stringent emissions testing protocols required by EPA for certification of fuels or fuel additives in the U.S., the overall ozone
(smog) forming potential of the hydrocarbon exhaust emissions from biodiesel is nearly 50 percent less than that measured for diesel fuel.

Can I use biodiesel in my existing diesel engine?

Biodiesel works in any diesel engine with few or no modifications to the engine or the fuel system. Biodiesel has a solvent effect that may release deposits accumulated on tank walls and pipes from previous diesel fuel usage. The release of deposits may end up in fuel filters initially, so fuel filters should be checked more frequently at first. Ensure that only fuel meeting the biodiesel specification (D 6751) is used.

Can biodiesel help mitigate "global warming"?

Biodiesel is the best greenhouse gas mitigation strategy for today's medium and heavy duty vehicles. A 1998 biodiesel lifecycle study, jointly sponsored by the U.S. Department of Energy and the U.S. Department of Agriculture, concluded biodiesel reduces net carbon dioxide emissions by 78 percent compared to petroleum diesel. This is due to biodiesel's closed carbon cycle. The CO² released into the atmosphere when biodiesel
is burned is recycled by growing plants, which are later processed into fuel.

Does biodiesel take more energy to make than it gives back?

No. Biodiesel actually has the highest "energy balance" of any transportation fuel. The DOE/USDA lifecycle analysis shows for every unit of fossil energy it takes to make biodiesel, 3.2 units of energy are gained. This takes into account the planting, harvesting, fuel production and fuel transportation to the end user.

Is biodiesel better for human health than petroleum diesel?

Scientific research confirms that biodiesel exhaust has a less harmful impact on human health than petroleum diesel fuel. Pure biodiesel emissions have decreased levels of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) and nitrited PAH compounds that have been identified as potential cancer causing compounds. Also, particulate matter, an emission linked to asthma and other diseases, is reduced by about 47 percent, and carbon monoxide, a poisonous gas, is reduced by about 48 percent.

Does biodiesel cost more than other alternative fuels?

A federal tax incentive is expected to help lower the cost of biodiesel blends in both taxable and tax exempt markets. Additionally, when reviewing the high costs associated with other alternative fuel systems, many fleet managers determine biodiesel is their least-cost-strategy to comply with state and federal regulations. Use of biodiesel does not require major engine modifications. That means operators keep their same fleets, spare parts inventories, refueling stations and skilled mechanics.

Do I need special storage facilities?

In general, the standard storage and handling procedures used for petroleum diesel can be used for biodiesel. The fuel should be stored in a clean, dry, dark environment. Acceptable storage tank materials include aluminum, steel, fluorinated polyethylene, fluorinated polypropylene and teflon. Copper, brass, lead, tin, and zinc should be avoided. The DOE Biodiesel Handling/Use Guidelines can be found at www.biodiesel.org.

Where can I purchase biodiesel?

Biodiesel is available anywhere in the U.S. The National Biodiesel Board (NBB) maintains a list of registered fuel suppliers as well as petroleum distributors and retail fueling sites. A current list is available on the biodiesel web site at www.biodiesel.org.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

SO MUCH FOR DRILLING IN ANWR :eyeroll:

Yesterday, the House Republicans caved in and got the measure erased from a budget bill that would allow drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska, also known as ANWR. Despite the fact that the area where they would drill was designated for such activity and despite the Senate passing a similar measure....drilling in ANWR is dead .... for now.

The move against new drilling was led by leftist Congressman Charles Bass of New Hampshire. Said the "moderate" Republican: "Rather then reversing decades of protection for this publicly held land, focusing greater attention on renewable energy sources, alternate fuels, and more efficient systems and appliances would yield more net energy savings than could come from ANWR and would have a higher benefit on the nation's long-term economic leadership and security." Sounds like somebody faxed Howard Dean's talking points to Representative Bass' office by mistake.

On the one hand, politicians sit on their committees grilling oil executives about their profits and the high price of gasoline, yet when it comes time to actually doing something about it, like drilling for more oil...they stand in the way.

*So the next time you fill your tank, remember it is the government keeping the price high, not oil companies*. The average profit on a gallon of gas is 10 cents, the average taxes both state and local is around 47-49 cents per gallon yet do you ever hear a politician suggesting they lower their take, hell no! :******:


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

I for one would like to see it drilled, but all hope is not lost. NEw oil reserves have been discovered in Utah and Nevada, and the size is great enough that they are actually talking of building a refinery in central Nevada. I dont have all the facts, but simply discussing building the first new refinery in 30+ years is a prettty good sign of whats to come.

Regarding Biodiesel..... Brew your own! Its not a difficult proceedure, and if you have the room and the spare time, its an easy way to make your own fuel for pennies on the dollar. I'm planning on doing this eventually, but have to wait till I actually own a diesel. Im hoping 2007 will bring a greater selection of diesels to the US market, because I really want the Ford Focus diesel station wagon to replace the current gas powered vehicle I currently use for my families needs.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

I love you guys!

I think you are on the right track! Most Alaskans thing ANWR should be drilled, but we also think little would change for anyone other than Alaskans with the new supply.
On the other hand, alot of us think the biodiesel idea is a great one, and we'd sure rather be getting barge loads of biodiesel sold at a great profit from Nodak instead of Saudi Arabia. Wether it's from fossil fuels or not I don't know, but we're going thru a warm spell up here that's for sure. I wish there was something I could do to help with the biodiesel development, but other than write letters and vote, I think I'm stuck!


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Biodiesel mandate suspended after truckers complain of fuel filter clogs

Associated PressST. PAUL - Truckers will get a three-week reprieve from the state's 2-month-old biodiesel mandate after complaints that the soybean-based fuel is clogging some fuel filters particularly in cold weather.
The state Department of Commerce on Friday temporarily suspended a requirement to blend 2 percent biodiesel into diesel fuel, giving biodiesel makers and distributors time to fix the problem. During the 21-day variance, stations can sell unblended diesel fuel.
The glitch may stem from biodiesel that doesn't meet fuel specifications, and that fuel will be removed during the temporary suspension, the department said in a news release.
Earlier this week, Minnesota's largest refiner, Flint Hills Resources in Rosemount, quit delivering certain cold-weather biodiesel blends for greater Minnesota.
"We have members that are going ballistic over this," said John Hausladen, president of the Minnesota Trucking Association. "Now, we do not know for certain that it is the biodiesel causing the problem, and we are trying to make sure that we have our data. But all the evidence we have gathered points to biodiesel being the culprit."
Bruce Gordon, with the Minnesota Department of Commerce, said there's not an obvious cause to the problem. The state is conducting tests initial results on 18 samples showed "four samples that failed a cold-weather test, but it does not say what is the cause of that failure," he said Thursday.
"We have received complaints that fuel filters are reportedly clogging, especially in colder weather, and we know that not everyone is experiencing the problem," he said.
The state's trucking group said that in a survey of 90 members, 56 reported problems with plugged fuel filters, Hausladen said.
John Hofland, a spokesman for Flint Hills Resources, which refines half of Minnesota's gasoline and diesel fuel, said it ran its own tests on the fuel as complaints surfaced.
"What we believe is occurring is that some of the biodiesel is fairly high in glycerin, which is a saturated fatty acid, essentially," Hofland said. "At certain glycerin levels, there appears to be a waxy substance forming at temperatures of zero to minus-10. What we've determined is, if we use a biodiesel that's lower in glycerin, we don't see this problem in colder weather."
The clogging has stunned Minnesota's soybean growers, who envisioned biodiesel as a clean alternative fuel. They worked to make Minnesota the first and only state to require a biodiesel blend in every gallon of diesel sold.
But now, farm groups are willing to have state officials waive the law temporarily, if it would get to the bottom of the problem. Minnesota is the nation's leading biodiesel producer.
"We are going to continue to support the Minnesota Department of Commerce in whatever they do, to get the problem solved and fixed," said Sherry Lowe, a spokeswoman


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Not much to say to that other than hmm, bummer. What did that meat head in Iran say a week or two ago? Something about moving all the Jews out of Israel back to Europe?
Point is I hate to underwrite that kind of dangerous rhetoric with oil purchases. I have this dream of paying Nodak and other mid west farmers to produce fuel from grain alcohol soybean oil, or something! Anything other than continuing to fund the violence in the middle east.


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## fargodawg (Sep 20, 2005)

father in law runs the ag barns at NDSU, encouraged me to stay away from bio diesel, says they used to run it in all the tractors and had many problems with gumming up of the injectors.

ALSO told this by the service Manager at Hall GMC, when I asked him for his take on the matter, I figured that my '05 may have a better chance but he said it will have the same injector problems as any older diesel

I am all for "buying local" but wont risk the bill that new injectors will cost


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## NDTracer (Dec 15, 2005)

I was curious on this too. fargodawg is probably right. I grew up between Bismarck and Minot and knew of farmers who had used it for a short time and quit. I didn't know the reasons for it. I was surprised, they would be getting money to buy their own product.

I assumed it was a lack of power and performance like I hear about E85. I would like to run this but neither of my vehicles accept ethenal levels greater than 15%(maybe 20). But I have heard you don't get as much power or milage so the "cost" savings is negated plus you are limited as to where you can buy.

Once these items are addressed or becomes a lesser difference I think everyone will use it. Not many people will change if they see an inconvience such as traveling 10 miles out of their way to buy it or if they don't save money. I don't think the majority of ND people are environmently friendly unless they see a direct benefit, maybe I am wrong though.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

NDTracer
Environmentally friendly and using ethanol is an oxymoron. It takes more energy to produce it than you get from it. Many people try tout it as environmentally friendly simply so they can get another avenue of sales for an agricultural product. It is no different than a large company telling you they are environmentally friendly.

We subsidize ethanol through our taxes, we get poor mileage and performance, we burn fuel to produce it, and we produce just as many hydrocarbons growing corn for pigs as we do growing corn for ethanol.

With current technology the sad fact is you are more environmentally friendly sticking with fossil fuels for now.

I have burned a few more tanks of biodiesel since last posting on this subject. Filled on at the Oasis in Bismarck. I didn't notice much running empty, but throw a fifth wheel behind and it gets less mileage than regular diesel. I didn't notice it as much in performance as I did mileage. But then my fifth wheel is not that heavy.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

http://www.veggievan.org/
My other links are now outdated and dead. I will need to go find them again. That's what happens in 5 years I guess.

Problem with a new product.

People DON'T understand it.
http://www.biodieselamerica.org/biodiesel101

BioDiesels #1 by product is soap (glycerin). It is HIGHLY detergent. As a result, any crud in a diesel system will most like get brought into the filter/pump and injectors.

Try running JP8 in a DF2 truck. Anyone in the guard/army will know the result. You carry extra filters for some time.

Biodiesel is very much a logical replacement for DF1 & 2. Spent some time doing some google research on it. You will be amazed at what it can really do for the economy. This is one of those things that ND could really help itself with, yet they only give lip service to it.

One of the biggest draw backs is that big oil looses...Guess how much support it gets now.


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## NDTracer (Dec 15, 2005)

Plainsman I agree on the costs and lack of it being E friendly. Since it is pushed as that people tend to think that way.

The lip service that kills me and proves what your saying is think about E85. It has stayed about $0.30/gallon cheaper than std fuel. Well if it is only using 15% std fuel why did it increase same amount. I can only find a couple reasons, price gouging, trying to line gov's pockets since we taxpayers pay for it anyway, or burn as much fossil to create so the "savings" is gone.

Takes me back to the battery cars of the 80's or so. Eventually they saw they would have to make new/replacement batteries and dispose of them as well as the hours to refuel.

The best solution I have heard is either burning the used oil like alot of shops do or using old cooking oil from fast food joints. I have heard of people doing this with small cars like VW Jetta but would think a truck could too. (I have an SUV and Dakota V8 so I couldn't).


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Just got done reading a New York Times article on the subject. (Ok, sorry about quoting this source!)

Bio diesel is being reported as an alternative fuel that comes with some drawbacks. One that stuck out to me was that in order to meet national fuel demand we'd be turning the suburbs back into farm land! I guess the states burn a lot of fuel. The Sierra club advocates using natural gas instead of bio diesel! In Alaska we pump that product back into the ground or burn it off since we don't have a way to get it south to you guys.

I sure appreciate you all posting on this subject. I think this kind of forum helps us all, (especially me,) stay informed.


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