# Deer Farms



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If any of you get Peterson's Hunting check out August page 13. The headline is Deer Farms: Hunting's Ticking Time Bombs be afraid, be very afraid. The main concern is unregulated transport of farm-raided der across state lines.



> "The deer-farming industry smears ethical, fair-chase hunters."





> "So far, there is no proof that CWD has spread from captive deer and elk farms to wild animals. The circumstantial evidence, however, is compelling. At least 10 wild Missouri whitetails tested positive for CWD . All were within a 29 square-mile area surrounding two captive herds tht tested positive for the disease."





> "Almost every state that has CWD in wild cervids also has captive deer farms. There are many, many examples of the disease showing up in wild deer near infected pens."


I guess if there were 99 deer farms and CWD found in wild deer within a mile of every deer farm it still isn't proof in the strictest sense, but what does common sense tell you? Circumstantial evidence has often held up convictions in court. Perhaps the courts is where this will be solved. Hunting magazine after hunting magazine has begin to question deer and elk farming.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plains,

You are too late to the party. Magazines are getting their misinfo from the wildlife society as usual.

From the Pennsylvania Game Commission:

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/se ... 813&mode=2

Chronic Wasting Disease Alliance (CWDA) 
Captive Cervid Breeding Fact Sheet (The Wildlife Society) 
Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture (PDA) CWD webpage: Commercial deer farms are inspected and regulated by PDA, which tests all mortality of suspect animals that die in a captive setting. PDA will test hunter-killed deer for CWD for a fee.

Plains, click on the wildlife society fact sheet. OK, now how did non-profit propaganda get on a state site owned by the people of PA?

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/se ... 120&mode=2

DuBrock serves as Pennsylvania's representative on the Northeast Wildlife Administrators Association, and several committees of the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies (AFWA). From 2002-2007 he served on AFWA's CITES Technical Work Group and as the CITES representative for the Northeast Association of Fish and Wildlife Resource Agencies. He also has served as a northeast region director for the Organization of Wildlife Planners, and as Pennsylvania Chapter President for The Wildlife Society.

The game farmers are up against some very organized state and federal agencies who want them over-regulated out of existance.



> Perhaps the courts is where this will be solved.


Courts do not create law, they only get involved to determine whether a law is constitutional or not. Maybe you feel that way because you and your little gang have exhausted every other avenue.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The game farmers are up against some very organized state and federal agencies who want them over-regulated out of existance.


Why?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Shaug commented: 


> Courts do not create law, they only get involved to determine whether a law is constitutional or not. Maybe you feel that way because you and your little gang have exhausted every other avenue.


I'm not talking about the courts creating law. I'm talking about sue anyone who has an escape. Some think it's no big deal because deer are returned. Are they tested when they return? If infected and they spend a week escaped how many deer did they infect? There are to many unknowns and to much carelessness as proved by the number of escapes I find when I google "deer farm escapes". We should be very worried.

The problem isn't that states don't inspect farmers herds. The problem is farmers get carless with their fences and care. Google "deer farm escapes", and you will get pages of this:



> One Deer from CWD-positive Pennsylvania Farm Escapes into ...
> 
> http://www.outdoorhub.com/news/one-deer ... o-the-wild
> 
> ...


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Please, I beg you, do not call someone who raises wild game a farmer. I've got enough people who hate and consider me evil for raising crops. Maybe "wildgame rancher". I don't know, but my personal opinion is that most animals were meant to be in the wild and it should stay that way, but that is just my humble opinion.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

north1 I see your point. They are not farmers and the people who use them are not hunters. I don't know what to call them, but they make us both look bad. In the past hunters had self control and asked that spot lighting be outlawed, and limits be imposed. Farmers don't raise poppies and produce opium either. Both farmers and hunters were responsible. Now we have a few blackening our eyes. 
I think we need to take the farming out of the entire argument and enact hunting laws instead. I hear hunters complain about road hunting, but for high fence. I don't understand that. I think a law about hunting will be better accepted than a law about the raising of the animals with much the same affect. 
I also worry about imported animals that can cross with native species. I keep thinking about those Red Stags that escaped in Idaho. The story sort of died and we can't find information. We know not all of the animals were recaptured, but has the state gone into the area and tested elk that hunters have taken for Red Stage genes?



> I've got enough people who hate and consider me evil for raising crops.


I hope my debating a couple of radicals has not contributed to you feeling this way. If it has please understand that I would never complain about the average farmer when my beltline proves I like what they produce. :rollin:


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plainsman said:


> > The game farmers are up against some very organized state and federal agencies who want them over-regulated out of existance.
> 
> 
> Why?


The Wildlife Society fired the first salvo's at the elk and deer producers in this state back in 2005. The NDG/F department was complicit handing out propaganda for the wildlife society and their other partners the ND wildlife federation.

An attack with one Senate Bill and two initiated measures against the elk and deer producers. A very dirty war.

Why??? Very good question. Maybe you would like to answer that.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Shaug I thought I asked you this question.


> Why??? Very good question. Maybe you would like to answer that.


So you want me to answer? I'll give you my opinion.
The people who have them are not trained for this type of animal. They are not biologists they are breeders. That's two different things. They don't breed to keep the species diversity, they breed for the opposite to get big antlers. We have animals that have lost species diversity which is the opposite of what is happening with the buffalo raisers. Not only is disease a problem when they raise native species in proximity to native herds, escaped deer or elk also introduce unnatural genetics. We need only look at the Red Stag/Elk cross that escaped in Idaho a few short years ago.

So we have genetics endangering natural genetics and we have disease endangering our native herds. The records of escapes is page after page after page if you google. Then we have the ethics of hunting. Many people already have a bad image of hunters. That comes from poaching, road hunting, and trespass. The hunters I know some of which support the farmers think this type of hunt should not be called a hunt. Most see these hunters as just another type of slob hunter. If people don't understand that ask around.

So Shaug why do you think these ranches have come into question? Professional biologists many with doctors degrees have looked at what's happening and are very alarmed. Do you think you actually know more about this than trained professionals. See if you can give an honest answer without falling back on your government bashing. It's not government that is the problem here it's trained wildlife professionals that have a very good picture of our future. They know the disease, they know the animals, and they have a history of what has been happening.


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plainsman said,



> The people who have them are not trained for this type of animal. They are not biologists they are breeders.


I was there when Valerius Geist said exactly that. Are you quoting him now?

Here is another quote of his,

Jan/Feb2004
This interveiw was reprinted in the G/F Outdoor Journal.

Geist said,

Wildlife provides the highest quality food available to humans. Period! Agriculture cannot match nature. Happily, it is becoming widely known that organically raised, grass-fed livestock-minus all the antibiotics, hormones and artificial fattening-live better lives and produce far healthier meat.
Ultimately, we must learn how to live with planet earth. Wise wildlife management, allowed its full potenial, can serve as a model for the wise use of all natural landscapes. Rather than converting more wildlands to agriculture we must now go the opposite way-to husband our planet rather than continuing to destroy it piecemeal. Wildlife and wildlands conservation is pregnant with ideas regarding how to do this.

Plains, are you a true believer?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plains, are you a true believer?


Well I have read the studies on cholesterol and saturated fats and found that venison is less than 1% higher in cholesterol, but much lower in saturated fats compared to beef and pork. Does that make me a believer? Maybe the fact that growth hormones are passed through the meat and causing faster development in adolescent girls makes me a believer. Hmmm I guess I believe those parts.

How about you are you a lobbyist? Do you stalk the halls of the legislature and online sites that mention agriculture?


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## shaug (Mar 28, 2011)

Plains wrote,



> How about you are you a lobbyist? Do you stalk the halls of the legislature and online sites that mention agriculture?


I have always had a certain political persuasion. Kept to myself and my opinions to myself. However, you guys changed that. Now I am an active member of many orgs, coalitions, bureaus and associations.

I am not a lobbyist per se.


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

shaug said:


> Plains wrote,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm,,,I wonder about that.
I think, like plains, there was always that extremist just waiting to get out. :lol:


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