# This irks me...



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

OK...I don't know the whole story just like anyone else...BUT...I'm pi$$ed with the headline. From my perspective...it looks like the kid hunted before school and either forgot or just didn't take it out of his truck. But the article title immediately leads one to believe he deliberately brought it to school and is getting off. How about the title: "Student wronfully charged in school firearm possession" or "Student mistakenly arrested for NOT violating statute." :eyeroll:

I know this is a product of the disturbing trend in America, but to spend a night in jail when he didn't do anything wrong?? Be sure to read the bolded statute part before making your judgment. He DID NOT break a law! And there is an option for expulsion...I feel the school will make the right decision, but much of the damage is done for this kid. He's been suspended for 10 days!

So the School Board has a policy that doesn't reflect the district statute?

If anyone else has more FACTUAL info on this, I'd love to hear it.

Happened in Stevens Point, WI.

Thanks...

Mike

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/app ... 12132/1978

*He brings shotgun to school, but won't be charged *

Gannett Wisconsin Newspapers

STEVENS POINT -- A night in jail appears to be the only legal punishment facing a Stevens Point High School student arrested Thursday for bringing a shotgun onto school property in his vehicle.

With the arrested student watching by video conference from the county jail, Portage County District Attorney Tom Eagon told a circuit court judge that his office would not be seeking any criminal charges against the young man.

The Stevens Point Police Department requested charges of possession of a firearm on school property after receiving a tip that the boy had a shotgun in his vehicle.

Police arrested the student around 11:15 a.m., finding a gun, unloaded, and locked in a case in the boy's vehicle, along with numerous rounds of ammunition packed separately. 
According to police, the boy had said he left the gun in his vehicle after hunting early Thursday morning.

According to Eagon, there is an exception under the statute outlawing firearms on school property allowing for unloaded, locked guns.

"*In reviewing the firearms in school zone statute, the statute does have an exception for a shotgun or a rifle that was encased and is not loaded, as is the case here*," Eagon told the court, "*so the state does not feel that charges would be appropriate."*
School principal Mike Devine says the student has been suspended for 10 days pending an expulsion hearing. Devine says the school's investigation into the young man's actions is still in its preliminary stages.

"We'll review the student's history, but we also have a board policy that states people that have possession of firearms on school property can be expelled up to 12 months," Devine said today. "It doesn't mean that's going to happen, I'm saying that's an option. It's too early to call."

Filed by the Stevens Point Journal


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

This also makes me mad.

I got in alittle trouble for having my bow in my truck. They said it was a weapon, which I admit it is, but what was I going to do? Run through the school like robinhood?

I then went on to tell the official that my Mag light was a weapon, hatchet, shovel, wrenches, rope, so on. I mean how far are they going to take it? Ohh and it is Illegal to have shells in your truck also.

Sad what this world is coming to. I would be the first one to step in and try and do something if there was ever to be a gunman somewhere, yet the good people are the ones getting in trouble. Humm??

I understand he broke the law, but there is better ways to deal with it, in my opinion.

Anyone see where I am coming from? Or am I out of line?


----------



## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

I still carry **** in my truck anyways. I'm not afraid of getting in trouble like you.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Mike it makes me angry also i was raised in wisconsin and in high school in the 60's me and all my buddies would put our shotguns in our lockers so we could catch the evening flight of ducks before it got dark. Even our teachers would join us, they knew we knew the best spots.

This country is really in trouble.


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

I am not sure why everyone is so mad. It seems to me that the police and school are getting it right. Instead of instantly expelling this kid, they used a little common sense and realized it wasn't a case of a kid bringing a gun to school hurt anyone.

I know how the school I work at would handle this, he would be expelled. No questions asked. Last year we had three kids expelled for bring pocket knives to school. Unfortunately, there is very, very little tolerance for any weapons. There can't be. It is sad but it is a way of life.

As far as being suspended from school for ten days. A couple of things here. 1. Most kids know that they should not have any type of weapon on school property. This is especially true in a rural school. 2. As a school, what are their alternatives? Not punish at all? Do you realize how much scrutiny that school would come under, especially after the advent of zero tolerance. 3. If the school did nothing, isn't that setting the precedent that it is okay to bring some weapons onto school grounds but not others? Slippery slope.

The disturbing part of this deal is not the fact that the kid got suspended but the fact that we have to worry so much about school shootings b.c of all the past incidents, including Ohio this week, of school shootings.


----------



## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Gooseguy, what everyone is upset about is he was punished for not breaking ANY rules. They said he could bring a cased gun to school, thats what he did, and he got in trouble for it-That is BS to me


----------



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Gooseguy10 said:


> I am not sure why everyone is so mad. It seems to me that the police and school are getting it right. Instead of instantly expelling this kid, they used a little common sense and realized it wasn't a case of a kid bringing a gun to school hurt anyone.
> 
> I know how the school I work at would handle this, he would be expelled. No questions asked. Last year we had three kids expelled for bring pocket knives to school. Unfortunately, there is very, very little tolerance for any weapons. There can't be. It is sad but it is a way of life.
> 
> ...


Do you have kids? If so, do you mind if they're thrown in jail for *NOT BREAKING THE LAW???! * You missed the whole point of my post...look how it was portrayed in the media. Go back and read the bold part about him not violating the statute...ten days suspended??? Are you kidding me???

Yeah, I understand reactions because of school shootings and the school needs to react, but common sense should prevail. How about coming out and saying, "OUR board policy did not match the statute, so therefore he didn't break the law. We've talked to the student and his parents and in with the cooperation with Police, we feel the student never meant harm to the school or its students and staff. We feel one night in jail is more than enough payment for this mistake."

You won't see that because , gosh forbid they admit they were wrong by putting the kid and jail and suspending him 10 days. They're are reactions and over-reactions...I feel this is the latter.


----------



## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

Thats why I don't park on school ground. I park on the other side of the street. And I lock my pickup. And I keep it behind the seat.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

HAHA Coyote, I did that the day after I got in trouble guns in a rack.

Here's the big question define weapon?!?!

Not to sound wierd or anything, but I could knock someone off just as fast with one of the hundreds of Fire Extingishers littering the hallway as I could with my Knife. Hammer in auto class?? Band saw in shop? If you read a student handbook at almost all schools it will read no weapons, then list a few. WHATS A WEAPON?

Sorry for the rant, but this kinda is a sore spot for me.


----------



## carp_killer (Nov 24, 2006)

VERY good point hunt4p&y even something as simple as a pencil could be considered a weapon. makes you want to ask one of the head guys in the school what they consider a weapon.


----------



## kevin.k (Dec 31, 2005)

o jeez, ive had many days were my shotgun has been in my truck


----------



## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

What it you're a blackbelt in martial art? Aren't you then a weapon??


----------



## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

I use to keep my shotgun in my dorm room at UND. I just put it in my golf bag with my other clubs and put a head cover over the barrel. The RA always wondered why I liked to golf on the overcast rainy days. And you know what? I never shot anyone or even thought about shooting anyone.


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

Correct. I did miss the point of your post. After re-reading I see what you mean about the night in jail.

However, while I do not think this kid should get expelled, from a school standpoint, I can see where they should suspend this kid for ten days.

Realize that school policy does not always match up with criminal policy. Look at back pack searches and locker searches for example.

And finally, to answer your question, I am not a parent but am a teacher of kids in 7, 9, 10, 11 and 12th grades. So I am around kids a lot. I am a very firm believer that kids make dumb mistakes b.c they are kids. This would include bringing a gun in your car to school.

However, the fact that a kid brought a gun to school in his car is blatently against the rules. The kid should be held accountable. It also brings up the question, where is the parents responsibility in all of this? Meaning, the school will get blamed for whatever outcome prevails....suspension, expulsion or doing nothing. But I would bet no one will question the family's common sense in this matter. It seems to me that this very well might turn into another case of the blaming the school, when the blame should be put on the kid and his family.


----------



## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

Be held accountable for what!?!?!?! Not breaking the rules??? The fact is, it was not against the rules-no one should be held accountable because no law or rule was broken other than the school and police who should apologize to the kid


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

this thread shows the idiotic inability of public school teachers to use common sense.

All this no gun stuff is pure liberal moronic bs, any real villian will walk right in and start shooting. The no guns rules will never stop that,its been proven again and again, and thats easily apparent to anyone with a brain.
Thats the price we all pay for living in a free society.

But liberals always want to ban the guns as if they are the problem :roll: .

I hate to be insulting but thats what I really think.

These stupid no tolerance rules teach kids not to respect authority, because no one respects stupidity and stupidity is always apparent, especially to kids.

What ever happend to adults looking at the whole picture and making an INFORMED decision, unfortunaltey that would require someone taking responsibility and our public schools and their administrations would rather have a "rule" so they dont have to take that responsibility.

When it come to having a gun in possession "intent" is obvious and everything.

If someone intends to shoot you, they will , especially if you're forced to be unarmed by stupid liberals.

every kid well almost every kid had his shotgun, decoys and waders in his car in the school parking lot when I was a kid( with our parents blessing) and no one got shot ever , except ducks.


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

Something sounds awful strange about this story. Why did the police search his vehicle in the first place? What brought them to the school to arrest the boy and then go to the parking lot to search his vehicle? To much of the story missing to jump to one side.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Most of the time it is from someone seeing it in the cars, at my school they had a bomb/ drug dog that walked around. It would always hit on my truck because of the gun powder.


----------



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

cwoparson said:


> Something sounds awful strange about this story. Why did the police search his vehicle in the first place? What brought them to the school to arrest the boy and then go to the parking lot to search his vehicle? To much of the story missing to jump to one side.


Reported by a fellow student that saw it...


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

Sapper...as I have misread the first post, you need to re-read the story. Correct no CRIMINAL law was broken. But a major school ordinance was broken.  So yes the rules were broken.

Bob- you said that kids don't respect authority b.c of the "stupid rules." Isn't holding a person accountable for their actions teaching respect for the rules.....regardless of whether you like the rules or not? So what you are saying is kids should only respect the rules that they don't think are "stupid."

Like it or not, part of gun ownership is being responsible and following the rules. There are many rules that I do not agree with pertaining to hunting and gun ownership, however, I follow them out of respect for the rules. If I break them and get caught, I don't blame the system, I blame myself.

Again everyone is quick to blame the school....always. What is a school suposed to do? If they come down hard, they get hammered by the people citing "common sense." If they do nothing, they get hammered by people saying....."you ignored a threat."

So what do we do, blame the public school teachers citing we are not using common sense. But how often do we cite a lack of common sense for bringing a gun onto school grounds? Or his family allowing this to happen? No outcry there! Just how stupid all of us teachers are.

I am not a liberal who believes that is so naive to believe that all schools can be safe. In fact no school can be totally safe. It would be great to go back to the days of putting shotguns in our lockers. But due to the events over the past 10 years, public pressure can no longer allow this.

As far as why the police checked the car, without knowing I am guessing that the kid told one of his classmates and that person told a teacher. After that the administration called the police and they searched the car. Many will say; why not just send the kid home or why get the police involved? While I agree that this would be good way to handle it, I also have to say I wouldn't risk losing my career over using common sense.

Finally, I really hope that this kid does not get expelled for 12 months. But I would bet money that he does.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I usually had a shotgun in my truck in high school. I had the mornings free until 10 so we chased birds quite a bit.

Times they are a changing though...


----------



## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

We always brought shotguns to school - locked in the truck. Since graduation, my high school doesn't allow this anymore.


----------



## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

My nephew was suspended for wearing this belt to school in Andover Minnesota.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Whistler31 said:


> My nephew was suspended for wearing this belt to school in Andover Minnesota.


Thats exactly what I am talking about.

You either are naive enough to believe in gun control or you aren't

it does not work, all it does is impact the law abiding, thats been proven time and time again.

Yet school teachers ( some not all) want to keep their heads in the sand and argue for it. Yes I think thats stupid and stupid never deserves respect.

If someone is going to kill you with a gun there isn't anything you can do about it, unless you are armed. If teachers and law abiding kids had guns in their cars some of these mass killings would not get as far as they do.

Gooseguy if some nut decides to go into you school with a gun and shoot up the place would you rather be armed or throw your calculator at him?
The nutcase doesn't care about the no gun "RULE" now does he.

If you had a gun it would probably save some kids lives, innocent kids.

The law has no legal responsibility to protect you they only have the responsibility to catch the criminal, self protection is legally the responsibility of the individual. That was decided by the US supreme court.

Unfortunately the idea of individual responsibilty has been eroded due to liberal doctrine in our schools.


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

I am not for gun control. But I do not see why allowing kids to have guns on school property is a necessity.

As far as the belt buckle, I completely agree with you. But having a gun in your car and having a gun belt buckle is a little different issue.

While I will agree that there are teachers out there that are totally on cloud nine, not just about gun control, but EVERYTHING. Most teachers use common sense and understand that gun control will not end school violence. Just like in any profession, there are a small percentage of people who simply "don't get it!"

Realize there are many teachers who do use common sense on a number of occasions. Every year in our rural school we find a deer riffle shell or a shotgun shell on our floor of either our halls or in a classroom. Instead of freaking out, we simply realize that kids wear their hunting jackets to school and things fall out of their pockets. They usually call me and I take the shell and throw it in the woods. What's the point? Many times teachers use common sense but it doesn't make the paper. Instead you hear about a teacher suspending someone for a belt buckle and say ALL teachers are stupid.

As far as teachers carrying weapons in school, count me out! The day when teachers have to start arming themselves in schools, is the day when we have dramatically turned for the worse.


----------



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

I really have nothing to say about the policy, but that headline is fear-mongering. I hate that crap. The story isn't interesting enough, so they whip up a fear-mongering headline or include little details like "automatic" or "assault weapon" or talk about how many hundreds of rounds of ammo somebody had at their house (I'm not talking about just this story)... Sometimes I think that the term "assault weapon" was invented by newspaper editors to sell more papers. I don't even think you can necessarily blame the news source for being "liberal". It's just pure, unadulterated sensationalism.


----------



## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

Sickum! Bob Sickum! :beer:


----------



## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

If i have to carry a gun to school to protect myself i sure as hell ain't teaching anymore.

Bob you have seem to run rampant with your liberal attacks since DJ has retired i will have to mention this to him next time i see him. :lol:

As far as carrying in your vehicle on school grounds, district policy is district policy. In most states you have a mandatory suspension if you have a gun on school grounds. If you want to hunt after school park off of school grounds. If you can't do that leave it at home and go get your gun after school, if you can't do that store it at a friends house. If you can't do that, make some friends. If you can't do that, I don't want you carrying a gun to school anyway, because then frankly you are a little bit scarey.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Say hi to DJ and wish him well, I hope his knee is holding up.

Its the zero tolerance stuff thats maddening, adults should be able to make sensible decisions and the policies should allow it.

Tell Dj I'm jealous :beer:


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

I really like norm's post.

As far as zero tolerance. I totally agree that some of it is very stupid. The belt buckle is a great example.

But being suspended for having a gun in your car is pretty reasonable if you ask me.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I like Norms post also, hes a good guy. I do have to ask when you both are going to quit though.

Theres been quite a few school shootings over the last few years so if you mean this , you are late .

Its opening weekend of hunting season so at least its a good time to quit.



> "If i have to carry a gun to school to protect myself i sure as hell ain't teaching anymore"


Sadly, that is not the last thing that goes thru a teachers mind as they are murdered by some crazy student?

A bullet is.


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

Regardless of the rise of school violence in the past ten years, it has directly affected is a vast minority of schools when compared to the whole picture. Don't take that as me saying it will never happen at my school.

Also I am not quitting b.c I do not feel the need, nor am I required, to carry a gun to school to protect myself. I said when I get to that point, I will quit. I am no where near that point.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

stay safe although I complain a lot the vast majority of teachers are very good people and I for one appreciate the good job they do.

I would like to thank you both, now go kill some pheasants.

Norm, I've always hunted out of Oakes, and stay at the E&I very nice place owned by very nice folks, kind of like Mayberry.

I would love to live there.


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

I agree, most teachers are pretty good. But I will be the first one to admit that there are some real dandies out there.

Happy hunting and shoot straight!


----------



## Hitch (Oct 19, 2004)

I live in Stevens Point, and have three children that graduated from that high school. As of this morning the student has been suspended for a total of ten days. They mentioned that he could still be expelled for the rest of the year pending discussion at the next board meeting. As was stated in this thread, the student did not break any laws. The gun was in a locked case in a locked vehicle, but was on school property. The school rules clearly state that weapons of any kind may not be brought on to school property. The rules also state the consequences of breaking the rules. Another student tipped off the principal, who summoned the police to investigate. The student that owned the gun was cooperative. From what I heard it was a shotgun. Apparently the kid loves to hunt (imagine that), and is a good kid with no history of causing trouble. Stevens Point is on a large wetlands flowage, part of the Wisconsin River in the center of the state. The high school is a mile from duck heaven making it easy to get a little hunting in right before school. There will be some huge support for him as this is a hunting community. Point is also the home of the UW-Stevens Point College of Natural Resources, one of the largest natural resource schools in the country. Hopefully the school board doesn't ruin this kids future by trying to make an 'example' type statement. And yes, we (us old guys) used to have shotguns, bows, ammo, and other hunting nessesaries in our beater pickups at school. My buddy even brought his lab to school a few times. Times have changed.


----------



## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

My bud got a two week extracuricular suspension for smoking, he was off of school grounds, it wasn't school hours, and he is 18, but at the begining of the year he signed a piece of paper that said he would not do that. Even though it was legal doesn't mean the school doesn't have a rule against it. If he wouldve parked off school grounds nothing wouldve been wrong. the rule was that you cant have it on school property and he did. Since there haven't been previous problems I don't think he should get expelled, the suspension should be good enough. if it happens again then I guess expulsion might be neseccasry. Some people just have it out for others but some are just doing what is right.


----------



## joebobhunter4 (Jul 19, 2005)

happened in wf... a kid was going to go shooting after school with his dad and had his gun in the back of his pickup... got expelled for the year because his neighbors called him in... pretty sad... i always used to have guns and shells in my truck and luckily i wasnt the one to get caught first...


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> Another student tipped off the principal, who summoned the police to investigate.


Hitch, that was the point of my question. If another student tipped off the principal then he was either showing the gun to others or talking about it. One never really knows what the real intentions of another person is so I certainly would not fault the student that told the principal. Either way he knowingly was breaking school policy and if ever there was a I forgot about it excuse, it goes out the window. The 10 days of suspension sounds reasonable. If his parents talk to the teachers I'm sure they can give him enough homework to do during that period to keep him from falling behind any classes. The more I hear about this the more I think the school acted in the appropriate manner.


----------



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

cwoparson said:


> > Another student tipped off the principal, who summoned the police to investigate.
> 
> 
> Hitch, that was the point of my question. *If another student tipped off the principal then he was either showing the gun to others or talking about it. *One never really knows what the real intentions of another person is so I certainly would not fault the student that told the principal. Either way he knowingly was breaking school policy and if ever there was a I forgot about it excuse, it goes out the window. The 10 days of suspension sounds reasonable. If his parents talk to the teachers I'm sure they can give him enough homework to do during that period to keep him from falling behind any classes. The more I hear about this the more I think the school acted in the appropriate manner.


You CANNOT assume that! (see bold) That student could have walked by and saw it in the truck. You're like the media...taking info and twisting it. Look at that statement you made...you make it look like the kid was, "Oh yeah, I got a 12 gauge in my truck...blah...blah." We don't know how that went down so don't make that assumption.

I agree the student did the right thing reporting it, but my original post was about how the media portrayed it and the poor reaction of a night in jail and 10 days suspended.


----------



## dukegoose (Jul 17, 2006)

Great thread, I think that the kid knew the rules and will have to eat the ten days off. The D.A.'s office that handled the situation is real good, I have worked with them in the past. If this incident took place in Madison or some of the bigger cities in Wi the kid would of least been charged with Disorderly Conduct or given a Disorderly Conduct citation. I know it is sad, because this kid just likes to hunt, but school policies on this matter are very clear and very firm. I have worked in schools as a cop and it is one of the biggest pains a law enforcement agency will ever deal with. 
All we can do is keep getting kids out in the woods. I'm taking some kids from the high school in my town goose hunting this weekend.


----------



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

dukegoose said:


> Great thread, I think that the kid knew the rules and will have to eat the ten days off. The D.A.'s office that handled the situation is real good, I have worked with them in the past. If this incident took place in Madison or some of the bigger cities in Wi the kid would of least been charged with Disorderly Conduct or given a Disorderly Conduct citation. I know it is sad, because this kid just likes to hunt, but school policies on this matter are very clear and very firm. I have worked in schools as a cop and it is one of the biggest pains a law enforcement agency will ever deal with.
> All we can do is keep getting kids out in the woods. I'm taking some kids from the high school in my town goose hunting this weekend.


Thanks for the information. You are right about Madison...OMG is that city gone downhill. Anyway, I just hate to see him suspended for 10 days. Again, I'm more upset with the Media presentation and the painting with a broad brush.

Later...

Mike


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> You CANNOT assume that! (see bold) That student could have walked by and saw it in the truck.


Mike, are you saying you are the only person that has a right to *assume* something? You just assumed the kid was driving a truck. I believe the story you posted said *vehicle* and the cite you linked said *car*. A truck was never mentioned in either story. If the kid had the gun visible laying in the vehicle even if cased then he wasn't very bright was he. Even if the boy actually did go hunting that morning and I see no reason to doubt that, one would have to *assume* he knew he was on his way to school. One would also have to *assume* if he was old enough to hunt by himself he knew better than to have the gun on school property.

Maybe if people paid a little more attention to what was going on around them and done a little more assuming then Columbine and the recent shooting at a Cleveland school would not have happened. I say hats off to the student that reported it and I don't care how he saw the gun. I also don't see where the media blew the story out of proportion either. Don't know what your problem is but you sure seem to have one. If your going to throw stones then move out of your glass house.


----------



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Come on...yeah I said truck...big deal...that wasn't an assumption. That was a mistake on my part. To compare that to what you assumed is a$$inine. You're reaching....


----------



## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

District policy is district policy...you can't change the rule or bend it for one student, and then punish another for a similiar offense. If you have never dealt with parents when something like that happens, it's crazy, because all you get is "you are singling my kid out", or "that kid got away with it and you didn't do anything to him". You have to be consistent no matter what. Maybe it's not fair, but if you don't want to get sued, then you have to enforce your policy and be fair with it no matter what. What happens when the next kid has a gun in his car and was "just going hunting" and then shoots everyone at 3:30 and everyone thought he was just hunting? Today's society is much, MUCH different than 20 years ago.

A rule is a rule, no matter what. I don't agree with some of the speed limits and I don't always follow them, but if I get caught, I'll pay the fine.

What lesson does that kid learn if the school doesn't follow through with the rules...that some rules are enforced and others aren't? The issue isn't really the gun in his pickup or if he wasn't going to use it in the school...the issue is knowing the rules and following them...and if you don't, then you need to pay your dues or get the rules changed.


----------



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

What about the fact he more than likely won't be charged because he didn't break the statute? If he broke the school rules, the cops could have investigated and it should have been quite evident there wasn't a planned attack. There was no need to spend a night in jail and 10 days off school.

I'm not arguing that he broke the rule, but how it's handled. A common sense investigation by the police revealed no intent existed. This kid IS NOT in the same boat as a kid that brings a gun INTO the school and demonstrates intent to harm.

Goosepride...as far as your speeding limit citation...thanks for helping prove my point. When's the last time the *cop used his/her judgment to either let you off or knock down the fine*? If not for you, you do know that happens. See my point...judgment and common sense took too long to prevail in this situation.

This will go down as another stat that a gun was brought to school...a stat that will eventually be used for liberals and not school safety as intended.

Again, I must reiterate that if he broke the school rule, so be it. But look how the headline reads....read my original and subsequent posts on how I think the media/school could have handled it.

Just my opinion...


----------



## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

Mike -

I understand and agree with what your saying to a point. I think schools really try to make a point that it simply will not be tolerated no matter what. I know that's not the issue you are having with this case, but I don't see how the school, knowing that everyone else knew about this, could just let the kid go with a stiff warning...it just doesn't work like that in school systems today. Blame it on the past school shootings more than anything...

Now, news people and media always tend to put a negative spin on everything and all they report it seems is the bad stuff and they will make it seem worse than it really is, instead of some good things in our society. In fact, I think our society as a whole is worse now because of what media shows day in and day out on TV, Internet, and newpapers...but that's another can of worms...

Mike - understand that a school cannot win in that situation no matter what and that they have to follow their policy otherwise every policy in their handbooks is meaningless. I feel bad for the kid but I think that's the way it needs to be done, otherwise every single student with a different opinon on something will get their way on all kinds of different issues, which just creates chaos...

You're a military man, so I think you understand what I mean. It may not be fair, but I just don't know what else the school could do.


----------



## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Goosepride,

Thanks for the response. You made some very good points. The school is probably in a no-win situation...I do see that point.

We have a zero tolerance for sexual harassment in the Air Force...sort of relates to this. Although it exists, common sense and judgment still remain important players as well though.

You're correct...this is a product of our society's recent trend. As you've probably derived, much of my frustration is with the media. In reflection, I don't know enought to determine the timeline of events, but a night in jail doesn't seem appropriate. I can't and don't want to assume anything, but I wonder how long it took the police to conclude there was no intent to harm. Maybe someone can shed light on that.

Goosepride...

Again, thanks for the intelligent, un-emotional response. I'm trying to be open-minded about this even though my intial reaction is to get pi$$ed.

In the bigger picture, I think we're all afraid to see where we'll be in another 10 years...

Mike


----------



## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

Hey Mike -

You bet. Too many times people get emotional or get personal which never wins a battle.

As an educator, I tell my students it's fine to argue and debate, but I won't allow them to get personal or get too emotional, because that leads to irrational statements which one cannot always take back.

It's tough thing...I think the school in this case would be better off making some changes to their policy. The school or every school in America for that matter should decide if they want something like this Public...now the Public probably has a right to know, but should probably just get a boring factual statement rather than a document that speculates. Of course, that doesn't sell newspapers or create spending on TV commercials though!

In my mind, if the news would quit showing school shootings, eventually those situations would come to a close, or at least most of them anyway. That's no disrespect to those that have lost love ones, but it creates exactly what the shooter wants, which is attention, etc.

I have some strong feelings towards media, some good and some bad. If you want to watch some hilarious speculation, just watch a car chase in the middle of the day when reporters have absolutely no idea on the facts, it's actually pretty funny. My point is, speculating can really make one look stupid and the media sure knows how to do it!

It's fun to read a thread without personal attacks - reminds me of the old days on here! lol!


----------



## rowdie (Jan 19, 2005)

Now he has 10 days off during hunting season, I wish I did!


----------



## Josh_Flem (Aug 30, 2007)

Whistler31 said:


> My nephew was suspended for wearing this belt to school in Andover Minnesota.


Really, whats your nephews name I may know him as I graduated from there last year.

Also, while attending Andover High School, I had 2 boxes of trap rounds sitting on my dashboard. The parking lot attendant told the vice principle (complete dick) who called me down to his office. He wanted to suspend me for having contraband on school property. I asked him what I could possibly do with them with no gun in my truck adn being a smartazz I said I suppose I could throw them at somebody, he didnt think that was funny. So I demanded to talk to the principle, who happened to be a trap shooter himself, the first question he asked me is what my average round is haha :beer: , then he told me it is not a big deal, just keep them under the seat next time. So all in all not a bad turnout, could have been 10 days.

Josh


----------



## Hitch (Oct 19, 2004)

Here is an update: The local media has not peeped a thing about this incident since Monday. As of now it is a dead issue. Most people feel the same way as most noted here... he knew the rules, broke the rules, will live with the punishment, had no bad intentions. The National media is blowing it out of proportion though. I don't know what kind of vehicle he had but recall a blurb that it was locked in the trunk. All the other kids in the area have paid attention and are making sure they don't make the same mistake. Pheasant opens this coming Saturday, the ducks are starting to move through and the rut is only a couple weeks away. School authorities are reminding the students of the rules: have fun hunting, leave the guns at home. I think they are handling it the right way and kudos go out to them!


----------



## ndwaterfowler (May 22, 2005)

I also agree with Mike and Goosepride, it's good to have a debate without the personal attacks. Well done to all those who posted intelligently on this thread.

That being said, let me propose this question for debate. Do you feel he would have been treated in the same manner if it were a bow that he had in a case in the trunk? This goes back to the "weapon" statement. Just wondering what you think.

Chris


----------



## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

Chris -

I would think the school would have to treat the bow the same way. I know our district would treat a gun or bow situation the same way...however, we do teach archery in PE...of course the bows used for that won't kill, but can certainly inflict some damage...can you imagine if the PE teacher brought his students to the gun range for the afternoon! Maybe that would be a good thing...get that rage out in a controlled environment!

I would think the school would have to treat that the same way.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

A class on firearm safety and use should be mandatory for all grade school students


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

this article showcases how knee jerk stupid school andministrations have become over the gun issue

You can not even talk about them :eyeroll:

http://thefire.org/index.php/article/8475.html/print?PHPSESSID=9df96da61720dfeb342cc7d407f21595

and this is college


----------



## Josh_Flem (Aug 30, 2007)

My senior year we had a class called OA or outdoor adventures. Every kid that wasnt alreaady certified in gun safety had to take a certified gun safety course during school. Then one day we went to the trap range and we each shot 2 rounds of trap, then after that, those that hunted and what not were able to participate in a little competition against the teachers on the sporting clays range. I shot a 23 and we kicked there azzes. Anyway, we did lots of cool things in that class like slept in tents and snow caves on school nights, then went to school the next day without showering. We also went to the bow range, canoed 14 miles, and went to the boundry waters for 5 days, wonderful class that unfortunately might get cut next year. I think they should offer classes like that at every high school.

Josh


----------



## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

Our gun safety class is held in our school. It is not part of the regular class day but after school. I would estimate that about 2/3 of the kids in our school have their gun safefy.

Next year our school will have an archery team. A lot of kids are excited about it.

I am in the middle of teaching my first year of outdoor heritage. Topics include: hunter ethics, hunter safety, hunting techniques, outdoor survival, snowshoe making, a trip to the boundary waters.....many more good topics. If I had more money to work with, we would be going to the gun range to shoot some clays. Next Friday I am having the local game warden come in to discuss ATV rules and hunting ethics with the class.

My goal of the class is to get the minority of kids who do not already enjoy the outdoors to get exposed to all the fun stuff that we do. So far the class is going very well.

Why am I telling you this? Don't give up hope b.c not all schools have totally lost perspective when faced with school violence/weapons issues. Even with that being said, I still think the kid in Wisconsin deserves the 10 day suspesion (as I have stated earlier on this thread).

Josh- Did you go to school at Blaine High School? Just wondering b.c they have a very good outdoor ed program that is very similar to the one you described.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Good to hear :beer:

I suspect that the liberal crazies have a lot less influence in ND than they do in Wisconsin. I was raised in Wisconsin, nice place but politically YIKES!


----------



## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

Bob - that does seem a little odd.

I don't have a problem with policy, because I'm pretty big on no weapons on school grounds...but that article is ridiculous...if that's the case and districts followed that policy, then every student typing on this forum during school hours, should at some point probably have been suspended!


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Universities are all for idea exchange as long as its leftist liberal ideas.

Other than that they are some of the most close minded places on the continent


----------



## Josh_Flem (Aug 30, 2007)

Gooseguy10 said:


> Our gun safety class is held in our school. It is not part of the regular class day but after school. I would estimate that about 2/3 of the kids in our school have their gun safefy.
> 
> Next year our school will have an archery team. A lot of kids are excited about it.
> 
> ...


Same district, I graduated from Andover High School. It was a great time, definately made my senior year a lot of fun, and everyone in the class was great. the teacher, Bobak Ameli is his name was great, he really emphasized that we needed to come together as a family and by the end we did. I have long forgotten about a lot of people from high school already, but I still talk to most of th epeople in my OA class. I think there is just something about the outdoors that brings people together. Like I said though funding is getting tight, and it sounds as though they will be taking it out of the class list next year, which is exactly opposite what I believe they should be doing.

Josh


----------



## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

That's because all the government cares about nowadays are "standards". We are suppose to teach to a test now...which is wrong in my opinion. Most funding is geared towards helping kids get to those standards otherwise schools can lose funding.

In my mind, we are getting away from some of the important things that should be taught in high school. We are almost asked to treat each kid as a number now. No Child Left Behind had its heart in the right place, but just isn't rational in my opinion. We get so caught up in trying to keep up with every other nation...that sometimes we forget about teaching the little things that actually make a difference in student's lives...


----------

