# Gun Dog Conversion



## Roosterfish (Jan 27, 2004)

Well, I've got a 9 1/2 year old Lab who's a natural duck dog, but who has never hunted anything but ducks. He's got a great nose, and is smart as a whip. Anyhow, I plan on hunting pheasant in S.D. this fall. We'll likely have at least 1, possibly 3 pointing labs with us.

Question: Should I bring my lab and see how he does? What type of training should I do to prepare him for the upland birds? I've got a feeling he'd do pretty well, but I'm also afraid that he might flush birds that the pointers mark before we get the chance to kick them out ourselves.

Any opinions?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Do you have an e-collar on him?

My lab learned in a half a day or so what was going on....his only problem as most retrievers have is keeping him in gun range.The e-collar is a must to keep him in range,especially if the other dogs are pointing and he barrels in and flushes.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Ken suggestion is a good one if you only had a few days to prepare but I have another plan if your serious about getting into the upland bird hunting.
First find out if the guys you hunt with have actually trained their dogs or do the just chase them around. If they are trained the pointing labs will understand the command whoa.
Whoa is a pointer command that means stop right in your tracks and don't move until you are released ( i use a touch on top of the head along with the verbal command "ok",to release.) Then train your dog to sit (and stay sitting) until he is released with the touch on the head and the verbal command OK . This will develop control in your dog without confusing a pointer that may be hunting with him, and allow you to keep him from rushing in and busting their points. "busting points" won't make your buddies too happy.
The reason you use the verbal "OK" is that the time will come when you have release the dog after its been whoaed on the other side of a creek or somewhere you don't want to go.
If your dog understands the sit command start giving him the command whoa every time before you give him the command sit and he will begin to anticipate the sit command and do it without needing to hear the word sit. My spaniel learned this really fast and to him whoa, sit, and hup, are interchangable and all mean sit down and don't get up until I tell you to. *tip*-To develop good hunting instinct to search out and look for birds I would try to go off on you own without the other dogs until your dog gets the idea hes supposed to look for birds other wise he will get dependent on the pointers. Then when he begins to get out of gun range you can stop him and release him when you catch up which is exactly how a upland flushing dog is supposed to behave. good luck
Your dog should learn this in 3-4 weeks during a daily walk of 15 minutes just drill him daily but don't over do it, 5-6 time a day after he get the idea will be plenty. If you have a e-collar it can be incorporated in this training but you can do just fine with a 50 ft piece of 1/8 nylon check cord with a snap just let him drag it and step on it just as you say whoa. If he get confused and walks back toward you don't say anything just bring him back to the exact spot he was in when you gave the command repeat the command whoa while pushing him to the sit position. 
After he knows the command well test him farther and farther away and with distractions untilhe is foolproof again this should be done in small daily lessons no longer than 15 minutes at a time. One of pointers is yanking my arm to go out so I'll talk to you later :lol:


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## Roosterfish (Jan 27, 2004)

That's good advice fellows; I'll get busy with the training. I've got a feeling he'll do well. Thanks for taking the time to respond.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Roosterfish I would hunt him the way he is. He is 9 or 10 years old he is to old to do much training. If he is not used to e-collar dont do it. If the other dogs are really pointing keep your dog on the outside of the group. At his age he is going to run out of gas pretty fast. That should keep him close . Your dog is a Old Hunter enjoy him the way he is.


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## Cooterman (Feb 12, 2004)

Roosterfish,

I assume that being an old experienced retriever that you have control over him. I have my retriever on whistle stops to sit, stay, and look for directions if needed during a retrieve. This command, that they already know, makes teaching the retriever to "Back" a pointing dog relatively easy. I have several plywood silhouettes of pointers that I use to train my field trial dogs to Back. Station them in the training field. Walk with your lab throught the field and when he aknowledges the silhoutte, whistle or whatever your command is, for him to sit and stay. With a little time, he will get the idea. (I even know a guy that has a remote control silhoutte that pops-up, kinda like Rosco P. Coldtrain's pop-up stop sign on the "Dukes of Hazzard.")

Then you can test him with real pointing dogs. If you don't have one, offer to buy some birds and take your buddy who has one out to work his and your dog. $3.00 bobwhites will be adequate, I wouldn't pay for pheasants to train your retriever to Back. When your dog ranges too far (trying to keep up with the pointing dogs), stop him, and most importantly, stop him for backing the pointing dogs. You keep your dog in range so you can shoot the birds he flushes, thats what he is along for, the close-up work that the pointing dogs miss. When my lab backs, I don't let him flush the bird that the pointing dog is pointing- it's not fair to the pointer. I do, however, let him retrieve, because my setters don't mess with that sort of thing.

Just my 2 cents.


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## Scraper (Apr 1, 2002)

We have "converted" labs in the past. We take them out to a game farm and have them place the birds with little ribbons tied in the grass so that you can get the dog right on the bird. When they get a snort full of that scent and have a bird blow up in their face they are hooked. They become pheasant hunting machines. Then, like Ken said I would get an e-collar so that they don't let their excitement pull them out of gun range.

A dog that has no interest is not a detriment to the hunting party, a dog with tons of interest and the knob that is yelling at him all day because he can't keep his dog in range is. Don't be that guy.

Have fun banging roosters in SD.


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## 1littlefeather (Mar 5, 2003)

Be careful  when using the E collar for the first time. Use a lot of caution, I have seen people break a dogs spirit with an e collar and that was it for the dog. He stayed under foot the rest of the time. You need to collar condition the dog before using the collar for correction. I would use a check cord when walking the dog up to the bird before the collar. 
I do use an e collar(tri-tronics have been the most reliable for me- I have tried 4 different ones and went back to the Tri-Tronics). E collars are great if you use them correctly, they can also be just the opposite if not.


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