# has anybody shot a squerel with a pellet thats missing top



## i_love_177

i made some homemade pellets with scissors i bought flat tipped casue there cheap and cut the tips off with my scissors and the tip is covered but now theres no flat part now i must have raised the fps of my gun by about 400 i havnt shot any squerells yet but i theorize that my pellets will have a grenade effect on it has anybody done this yet


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## Militant_Tiger

grenade effect?


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## i_love_177

uhh by that i mean it sends shards of led through the squerell im going to be doing some testing with these new pellets i made so far instead of 7.9 grainds these are about 3.5 grains and fly fast


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## Militant_Tiger

i doubt it will have the impact to kill the squirrel effectively, and i really wouldnt want or expect it to shatter within the squirrel


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## i_love_177

y wouldnt it its so light thts that what would happen im going to do some penetration tests before i shoot a squerel but where im testing theres a squerell and hes very bothersome os i might just test it on him its improved my gun from 1000 fps to 1400 fps


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## Militant_Tiger

Well first off it wont stabilize because you have cut off the top of it (it connects on 2 points, back skirt and front) so it will have no accuracy at all. Also, if you ever do connect with a squirrel it is so light you will be lucky if it penetrates the hide at all. If light bullets and high speed were that great we would all be shooting .17 caliber bullets out of 30-06 cases at deer, it however doesnt work like that. The speed at which you can propel something means nil, it is the energy that it retains when it gets there that matters.


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## i_love_177

so r u saying that i should go with heavy pellets instead of the light ones i made cause i could probably get squerell killss at about 60 yards now with these becasue its going so fast y wouldnt it penetrate the skin?


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## the_rookie

I would have to agree with 177 it would be a good gun for longer shots

Except i would have to agree with militant also because of the ke but if you

were to shoot a good distance away only a HEAD SHOT


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## Militant_Tiger

You are not getting the concept of retained energy. Just because it is firing at 1400 fps does NOT mean it will hit the squirrel at 1400 fps! A heavier slug would be a far better choice for both long and close range shooting because it packs a wallop close up, and retains much of its energy down range.


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## mr.trooper

Why wold he want to do it anyway? the 7.9gr pellet has alot more kinetic energy, even though its slower.

* 7.9gr= .0011 pounds ( 1gr = 1/7000lb)
* 3.5gr= .0005 pounds

So.....

A) (.0011lb)(1,000fps)=1.13 Pounds on impact
B) (.0005lb)(1,400fps)=.7 pounds on impact.....

So basicaly your loosing Power and accuracy by using the filed pellets.


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## the_rookie

Well I made and tried of these pellets unbelievable accuracy at long ranges but pentration is to be disired i was able to shoot threw 2 vegtable cans and with flat pellets i shot throgh all three


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## surfingdwedge

You will loose tons of accuracy if they arent perfectly symentrical. Speed doesnt matter. Think of it like this....does it hurt more to get hit by a ping pong ball going 100 mph or a car going 10 mph? See my point? The grenade effect wont happen. You might get more distortion but it wont shatter. No one is going to even beleive you that you that you are shooting 1400fps muzzle velocity now. Describe what happens each time you shoot. If you shoot over 1270fps with a pellet it will make a loud cracking sound as it break the sound barrier. Breaking the soundbarrier with a pellet will cause huge turbulance to the pellet, since they are not designed nor heavy enough to overcome these factors like how a real bullet is. Why do you think real bullets that shoot supersonic are longer and dont have a hollow end? Lots of .22 cal rifle rounds shoot below 1270fps. Why are they more lethal then? Because the rounds they shoot are a lot heavier and allow for it to retain more energy at longer distances...heres a try it at home test you can do to prove to yourself that heavier things will not only go further with the same force but will retain more energy at greater distances. get a tennis ball and get a shot put ball. Now, throw them both as hard as you can. The tennis ball goes further in this case. Now for energy transfer get a friend to stand 10 ft from you. Now throw both the tennis ball and the shot put at him/her as hard as you can. Which one hurt your friend more? You are using the same amount of energy on both balls even though one goes further than the other.

Another one that proves the line between how light you want something to be and not....Take a pingpong ball and get a rock about the same size. throw them both as hard as you can. The rock will go further because it retains more energy for a longer period of time and is not effected by air resistance as much as the pingpong ball due to the added weight. Now take both and throw them at a friend from the same distance. Which hurt more?

See my point yet?

-Jake


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## Plainsman

Lets forget the effect on the pellet for a moment. What about the effect on the rifle. The pellet resists momentum as the spring using air pushes it down the bore. This resistance with the very light pellet will be much less. When you fire your rifle it will be comparable to shooting a bow with no arrow on the string. I have seen more than one bow come apart in this manner, and I would guess that eventually your rifle will do the same.


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## the_rookie

now i see what ur saying it makes sense but now im stuck with a new question with a 17 caliber rimfire rifle why is it accurate i thoguht 177 wasnt ment to go the sound barrier and its advertised over 4000 fps!!!!


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## Militant_Tiger

.177 = pellet rifle caliber, if it goes past the sound barrier it is often inaccurate as it comes back through it.

.17 HMR = rimfire which is meant to fly far faster than the sound barrier


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## the_rookie

MT good way to put it


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## TheEnd

i filed down a 16 gauge shotgun shell and found that it gives me 2600 FPS ONLY if fire both barrels at once. At 100 yards i can get through about 4 cambells soup cans. I even figured out an equation for it.

.11 pounds X 4 soup cans = 2600 fps.


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## Militant_Tiger

TheEnd said:


> i filed down a 16 gauge shotgun shell and found that it gives me 2600 FPS ONLY if fire both barrels at once. At 100 yards i can get through about 4 cambells soup cans. I even figured out an equation for it.
> 
> .11 pounds X 4 soup cans = 2600 fps.


Huh?


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## Mud15

seriously what the hell? You didnt make any sense THEEND...[/quote]


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## TheEnd

:lol: just make fun of the guys modifiing their pellets (don't recomend on higher calibers)


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## shryke300

You also need the extra mass to keep the momentum of the projectile when it encounters airresistance, not only that, but the new pellet will be more subjectable to cross winds.


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## hill billy

Oh Yeah, I filed down my arrows for my bow from 27 inches to 10 inches and they fly 800 extra Feet per Second, no BS for real.. I thought it would wobble and mess up when it broke the sound barrier that one time when I turned my bow up to like 150 pounds, but I turned it down cause the arrows were too dangerous, they had like a 20 mile range....HAHAHAHAHA


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## the_rookie

nbow you can make coyote kills up to 100 yards thats sweet


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## Stealth

First off I'd like to say that you're not the best example to set for other airgunners. Your homemade pellets are inadequate and could be dangerous. So you know, I'd like to know how you came upon the conclusion that your pellets are flying at 1400 fps and are 3.5 gr. Do you have a weigher. Are you shooting the pellets over a chronograph. DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BALLASITICS. I'm not trying to insult your intelegence. But "guessing" doesn't qualify for real data on how a rifle peforms. You think you're gun shoots at 1000fps already or did that just come on the box! Use your head. Gun makers use the lightest pellet available to test high velocities. 7.9gr is definetly not the lightest .177 pellet so I'm sorry to inform you that your gun is in fact not shooting 1000 FPS. Understand please that faster does not mean more energy and long range killing as you think. Light pellets drop energy so fast that a squirrel shot would simply feel a thump on his behind. I gurantee you're not going to nail his noggin. A super high velocity and deforming a pellet will send accuracy to hell. Also simply chopping the top of a hunk of lead will not turn it into an explosvie effect. I doubt it would even expand, much less than would a conventional airgun hollow point like a Crow Magnum or RWS super H point. 
Stop fabricating lies about velocity and weight. Get a book and read. A varmint hunting book will teach you so much about ballasitics. Varmint hunters live and breathe ballastics. Best of luck.

Derek


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## Joe Blow

I've got to agree with stealth on this one about ballistics and such.I mean come on with those sawed off pellets it would be like putting slivers in his hide and barely even wound him if it would wound him. Another thing is how accruate are these pellets i mean come on if you cut them by hand how areodynamic are they??
Not to be meen or anything i'm not being meen i'm just replying to your forum.
-Joe Blow-
P.S. Listen to stealth he knows what hes talking about.


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## FoxSquirrel

I would use copperhead high velocity pointed pellets.It kills them on the first shot.I wouldn't put that in the gun anyway it would probably mess it up.


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## gentleman4561

Use a decent pellet yours will just screw up your gun and will not kill squirells


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## Stonegoblet

Wow, It's pretty obvious that we have different views on the topic of modified pellets, and the muzzle velocities and such. But you know what? Pellet companies construct and test each round that they make, and they are professionals. There's a reason they get paid to do their jobs-
They're EXPERTS.

Now if you want to use scrappy, homemade pellets, with rough edges, unknown statistics, and dangerous muzzle speeds, there's no one stopping you. But come on, seriously. Homemade pellets? Unless you want wounded animals, busted windows, and a ruined gun, you'd better leave that to the experts.

Keep it safe and logical, guys.


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## Cleankill47

I can't believe this thread is still active.

1: Don't use the 'modified' pellets. If you want a pointed tip and higher velocities, go buy some Gamo magnum or Master Point pellets. They're lighter and give a bit more speed, but there's no guarantee you'll get great accuracy; my Shadow has had more than 8,000 pellets through it, changed the seal once, and I clean & oil it four times a year. It's picky about pellets; some I get great groups, some not so great.

Bottom line: GO BUY SOME DECENT PELLETS! Unless you want to spend the money for a furnace, molds, lead ingots and alloy mixes, just buy good pellets.

This should be done. Kill this thread. Please...

:sniper:


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## Bgunit68

I have to agree. You can get some decent pellets from Wal-Mart very cheap. I use Kodiak Extra Heavy Match. My rifle is rated for 1250fps for regular lead. The 10.6 grain greatly reduces the fps but it has great knock down power. I hit a squirrel at 42 yards and it went in at the cheek and came out by the back ear. I have used the PBA that increases my fps to around 1600 fps. But once you break the sound barrier (1128 fps) you get a transonic wave that actually will follow behind the pellet. I have had those PBA pellets hit the paper sideways at around 40 yards. They are no where near as accurate as the heavier lead ammo. But it is fun to shoot them. As far as buying pellets, if you buy 3 tins you get the fourth free from Pyramyd Air. It lets you try a lot of different pellets until you find the one you like best.


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## arun_rules

Note: Arun_rules is 3 people. a mom, dad and son. I am the mom
I have a custom german made air gun, it is .35 at 1500 fps NOT KIDDING
It is a break barrel and is really hard to cock, I have to use a special machine with levers and pulleys. I once shot an elk with it


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## BlackAdder

First off, the people saying that fps, or shape or 'grenade' effect will help you, you are wrong. One guy said it best. It's the energy when the pellet impacts (foot pounds) that matters.

And 1400fps?????? OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone (I hope) knows that once a pellet goes 'supersonic' (around 1100fps) it is no longer stable. ESPECIALY after you've chopped it up!!!!!! I found this forum tonight and after reading some posts, most people have no clue as to what they are talking about.

And, BTW, bullets are cast to be stable at supersonic speeds. Pellets are just not designed to travel that fast and be stable. Trust me. 1400 fps??? I am laughing!!!!!!!!!!!

Some of you please do your homework!! I already see you skipped a few science classes!!!!

BlackAdder


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## Bgunit68

They are not as accurate. But they aren't too bad. Since my last post here I'm 3 for 3 on ground hogs with the PBAs at 50, 68 and 71 yards (measured with a range finder). All three were one shot kills. Granted you won't hit a bottle cap every time at 40 yards but you're not going to miss too many larger varmints eating your garden up. LOL. For accuracy I use the Kodiak Extra Heavy Match. They are over 10gr. That will drop the speed under 1100 fps and that will hit a bottle cap every time at 40 yards.


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## BlackAdder

Bgunit68 said:


> They are not as accurate. But they aren't too bad. Since my last post here I'm 3 for 3 on ground hogs with the PBAs at 50, 68 and 71 yards (measured with a range finder). All three were one shot kills. Granted you won't hit a bottle cap every time at 40 yards but you're not going to miss too many larger varmints eating your garden up. LOL. For accuracy I use the Kodiak Extra Heavy Match. They are over 10gr. That will drop the speed under 1100 fps and that will hit a bottle cap every time at 40 yards.


At least we are speaking the same language. BTW, Crow Mags for me, I have a Millennium HW97. Before I went compressed air .22, this was my number one. .20 caliber. The perfect size. It's like a .40 S&W. Better than a 9mm and not as huge, and inaccurate as a .45. No that gun served me well. I've taken 10 North Eastern Grays with all brain pan shots only. They never felt a thing. Crow Mags are so devastating that when I picked the squirrel up and shook it the inside of his head sounded like broken glass! Devastating pellet.

Pleasure to meet you. Blackie


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## TXpelletgunhunter

BS!!! you probably shot an elk with it and gave it a flesh wound. Your the mom really? :roll:


arun_rules said:


> Note: Arun_rules is 3 people. a mom, dad and son. I am the mom
> I have a custom german made air gun, it is .35 at 1500 fps NOT KIDDING
> It is a break barrel and is really hard to cock, I have to use a special machine with levers and pulleys. I once shot an elk with it


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## Cleankill47

TXpelletgunhunter, Considering that most modern deer rifles are in the .30 caliber range, (perfect example: .308?) why is it so hard to imagine that someone could kill a large game animal with a well-made pellet rifle, designed for such game?

(I know people that have taken elk regularly with a .270 win, not even a .30 caliber rifle round....)

A .35 caliber (9mm) pellet, traveling at 1500 fps, produces 500 ft-lbs of energy at the muzzle, so as long as she made a shot that hit the neck or vitals inside of about 50-60 yards or so, she would kill the elk.

Remember, Lois and Clark carried an air rifle into America, it was used for deer-sized game, and there are several air rifles out nowadays that produce more than enough power for medium-sized to the smaller large game, such as elk...

Keep an open mind when people say things like that, not everyone is playing dumb little games to get a cheap laugh on threads like this.

Moderator, kill this thread please. It's dead, it's done. It should be removed so no one else gets ideas like that about modifying their pellets.


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