# Going to Alaska in 2006 Need some help



## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Well, I am headed to Alaska to hunt moose next year and need a lethal side arm for Grzzlies. My college bud moved up there and got a .50 desert eagle as a house warming gift. I need to get somehting for myself and am debating between the .50 cal or a benelli military grade shotgun with slugs. Just looking for some input


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Big handgun is going to be a better choice because it isint nearly as obtrusive as a long gun, so you will have it with you more.


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## go4thegusto (Sep 29, 2004)

I have 4 trips to Alaska under my belt, 2 on Kodiak Island. The last trip we saw 13 bears the first day! I can tell you that if the firearm is not your primary weapon...as in fisherman or bowhunters like myself, it must be lightweight and easily carried. That pretty much rules out a long gun.
I carried a revolver and my friend carried a sawed off pistol grip pump shotgun. He said he would never do that again. It was caught in the brush all the time.
Next time I will have a LARGE shoulder holster carried revolver which I have shot at 5 yards at a rolling tire while
backpedaling! The odds are long, but someone gets chewed every year up there.I choose to not be a victim....just like at home.
Look at a Super Redhawk 5 inch in 44 magnum with Garrett penetrators or a 454 Casull. The 500 is a brick and probably will end up in camp after lugging the pig around for a day or 2.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

There are only two ways to stop a charging bear with a handgun. A spinal hit or a brain hit. Both call for rapid follow up shots with good penetration. You're not going to get the former (follow up shots) with something like the 454 or 500. Personally I would choose a 44 magnum loaded with well constructed solids. It only takes one hit into one of those two areas but you need to be able to squeeze as many shots as possible before he reaches you. Once the bear reaches you it's all over. Just my opinion...........


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

I agree with Gohon, I have hunted Moose in Alaska before and if old silvertip wants to get ya well you got a big problem. But honestly no handgun would really make me feel safe but its good to have one just in case. No matter what handgun you choose never stray far from your rifle Yeah I mean have it in your sleeping bag with you,and across your lap in the mensroom!! Hey and Goodluck you are in for a real treat Alaska is AWESOME!!!!


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

thanks guys...from what you are telling me the biggest mistake that people make is not practicing before they go with that secondary weapon and that weapon better be atleat a .44 and weight is an issue.

I definately see the mistake in a full size scatter gun. What brands and models would you suggest I look at. Maybe two or three in various calibers.

Thanks allot and I am stoked for the hunt !!


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

*What rifle and what cartridge will you be using? What weight and manufacture bullet? Are you using a scope or open sights?

Your rifle is the best and fastest medicine to stop a bear if you can handle it properly and if it has a big enough cartridge with proper weight and construction bullets. Please don't rely on follow up shots; you need to make the first shot count if the bear is charging head-on. You will not have the time to properly operate the action of your firearm with a bear coming to eat you.

Yes you most certainly must practice, practice and practice some more! Most people don't practice enough with there long guns, or pistols.

Your buddy is in trouble with his Desert Eagle 50 AE if he is using factory ammo with jacketed bullets. Semi auto pistols are a bad choice for down and dirty field use, because too many things can go wrong. I would advise him to trade his Desert Eagle for a Freedom Arms.

I own a Freedom Arms, model 83 in 454 Casull with a 6" barrel. This is the best medicine for dangerous game in a revolver. You must use hard cast lead bullets in order to penetrate the heavy bone and muscle of a bear. I load my 454 Casull with 335 grain and 360 grain hard cast lead bullets.

Look at Freedom Arms or for less money single action Ruger black hawks in 44 Magnum or 45 Colt. The 44 Magnum is good medicine but the 45 Colt is even better, but you must buy Buffalo Bore Ammunition or reload your own using heavy weight hard cast lead bullets. I would choose a single action revolver with a barrel 6" and shorter.*


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

I carry a 454 most of the time, almost have the bluing wore off it.
I just bought the 500 S&W 4" stainless it's not very heavy but very 
inpressive knock down power. If ya don't mine spending the extra $$ I'd go with the 500 for total confidence.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Yeah guys I know dont rely on follow up shots!! But if I could chose a gun any gun to stop a charging Grizzly it would be the one Jessie Ventura used in the movie The Predatore!!! :beer:


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

You will cary this gun an lot, and hopefully not shoot it a lot. The S&W mountain gun is the one for you. 44mag, light in weight, and will put out the lead if you need it. It will not take a lifetime of heavy loads, you would not to do so, but is light in weight, and good for what you want. You could also look into a ruger single action 45 colt that has a shorter barrel say 45.5-5 inch and use heavy handloads. I don't know about you, but lugging around a S&W 500 all day on my hip would be very tireing. If you have ever humped a pistol on your hip all day, you know that ever ounce is felt. Something that you can pack all day, and see if you can try hoster styles out, they make all the differance in the world. I like a bandoleer style hoster, it seems to put the weight where I can handle it best. Also, take into account your rifle and the fact that you will almost always have it in your hands. A gun slung up on your sholder will do you no good if problems happen fast. It is your best chance in a critical situation. It is more accurate, more powerful, and can make a good wacker it things are too close. But please if it comes to that, stick the end of the gun into the beast and then pull the trigger. The handgun is more for you than any bear.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

If this is to heavy for you to carry maybe you should get eaten by a bear and clean up the gean pool. :eyeroll: This gun is not that heavy.


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## the_rookie (Nov 22, 2004)

A few weeks ago I was browsing websites for a pistol, I forgot what website maybe it was cz firearms but it was a 45 with 6 shots and it had a 1.25 inch barrell now let me tell u waht that would have some kick


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## driggy (Apr 26, 2005)

I've lived in AK for 3 years now and your first line of defense is a good rifle. I carry a 375 caliber. Great for both bears and moose. 375 H&H is like 30-06 down there, it's our bread and butter caliber. Shotguns are more usable than pistols but you have to make sure you always have it with you. If you make sure your rifle is around, it's not needed. If you're looking at weight as a issue look at a S&W 329 airlight. Kicks like a mule but as light as being made right now. Practice with 44 special and use a few real loads to make sure it shoots where you think it will. Federal makes a 300gr castcore that is recommended here. 454 is good if you can handle the recoil. The 500 S&W actually kicks a little less but is not as easy to carry and only has 5 rounds. If you can wait, S&W will be bringing out a 460 that will shoot 45 colt/454/460 S&W. But last I saw it will be in a 8 3/8" barrel, not good. sounds like you got time. Also get a good sleeping bag that will keep you warm when wet (wiggys). It rains alot here during moose season.


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## wyocarp (Jul 29, 2005)

My two cents, buy a .500 and load it with some big loads. I hunt with two of them in a double shoulder holster rig. One has a scope. I think it is a great gun. It has incredible range and a lot of lead leaves the barrel everytime it is shot. My favorite bullet is one that I cast, shoot, and sell and is 510 grains. Normal animals it drops like a bad habit. In bears, they know that they have been hit. Had a bear tumble over backwards twice after I shot him this past hunting season.


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## mark056 (Sep 11, 2005)

I lived in Alaska for two years, I was stationed there in the military and at that time I carried an S&W Model 58 in .41 Magnum. Since that was over thirty years ago, today I would not be that foolish. First, no handgun is really adequate against bears, at least the ones one finds in Alaska. Frankly the idea of a short barreled 12 gauge shotgun with slugs has some appeal to me, but apparently it didn't work out for someone else as stated in a previous post. The options that have been mentioned are good ones: 454 Casull, .500 S&W and I would think the new Ruger in .480 Ruger. But even these are at best marginal.

The biggest problem is accuracy and being able to successfully control a heavy caliber handgun under extremely stressful conditions. The truth of the matter, is that unless you train with a handgun so that it becomes second nature to you, your ability to use it when the chips are really down are slim indeed. Most people simply don't have the time or inclination or money to shoot the several thousand rounds that it might take to prepare to use your weapon against a charging bear. Shot placement is absolutely critical.

A rifle is really the answer with the .338 Winchester Magnum being the absolute bottom in terms of power level. The .375 H&H would be a good choice too.

One thing that I always did when I went trekking in Alaska was to take my dog with me. I always figured that the dog would buy me a little extra time if a bear decided to attack. Even a minute more time might either get me in a position to find a place where the bear couldn't get me, or allow me to find the best position for a critical shot if I was forced to stand my ground. I knew that the dog wouldn't last long but would go down fighting and divert the bear.

Fortunately, I never had to put my theory to use and I enjoyed some great times out in the tundra. Just don't be overconfident. Back in the day there were a lot of buckos who strapped on their .44 Mag Ruger Blackhawks and went into the "Last Frontier" with a certain bravado. Shooting a cylinder full of ammo at a fence post is not going to prepare anyone for the reality of mortal combat with a large carnivore, yet that is what a lot of these yayhoos did. Most of 'em were lucky, I guess. They never had to engage a bear.

Good luck and good shooting !

Mark 056


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Mark, I appreciated your post. I must say it made as much, in most cases more sense than anything else I read. Rifle caliber is always subject to personal opinion, but I can't find any real fault there, either.


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## wyocarp (Jul 29, 2005)

> First, no handgun is really adequate against bears, at least the ones one finds in Alaska.


That has to be a statement made by someone who doesn't hunt big bears with handguns.



> The options that have been mentioned are good ones: 454 Casull, .500 S&W and I would think the new Ruger in .480 Ruger. But even these are at best marginal.


Once again, another statement made by someone without the experience of using those guns on big bears.



> The biggest problem is accuracy and being able to successfully control a heavy caliber handgun under extremely stressful conditions.


I'm not sure the size of the gun is as much the problem as is time and being able to handle the situation emotionally. The event of a charge is very stressful, but will have more to do with the individual than the weapon that person has. It won't matter if it is a mad dog, a lion, a cape buffalo, or a grizzly.



> Most people simply don't have the time or inclination or money to shoot the several thousand rounds that it might take to prepare to use your weapon against a charging bear. Shot placement is absolutely critical.


Shot placement is as critical with any weapon if you are planning on stopping a charging animal. And any other animal isn't a threat.



> A rifle is really the answer...


A tank is really the answer, but if we are talking about something that an individual will carry with them while out in the woods and have somewhat ready in the event of an attack, a large caliber pistol is really the answer.



> One thing that I always did when I went trekking in Alaska was to take my dog with me.


That is about the most sound advice you have given. It will alert bears that are in the neighberhood that you are around and it will give them a chance to move or at least not be surprized. As for giving you more time, don't count on it. Any ****** off bear in Alaska will run through a dog like he's not even there. It will depend on who the bear focuses his anger on.[/quote]


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## mark056 (Sep 11, 2005)

"That has to be a statement made by someone who doesn't hunt big bears with handguns."

Yep you got that right because handgun hunting is an entirely different ballgame than going through the tundra on some kind of nature hike.

"Once again, another statement made by someone without the experience of using those guns on big bears"

So what is a good bear cartridge in a handgun ? When I lived in Alaska a .44 Mag Ruger was considered the ne plus ultra of bear defense, or an S&W M-29 if you could get one (this was 1968-1970)...Now unless you are talking about some kind of Thompson Contender Single Shot pistol, what do you recommend ? The .454 Casull, the .480 Ruger and the .500 S&W Magnum as I seem to recall were all developed to take down a large ominivore such as a bear...if not, kindly enlighten me. I know that Maj Doug Wesson hunted grizzlies in Alaska in the 1930's with the then new S&W .357 Magnum, in fact he took one of every species of major game animals in North America with it. Elmer Keith took a lot of big game, I think including Alaskan Brown Bears with a .44 mag. as have many others. The native peoples of Alaska have been known to hunt bears with .22's and 30-30 Winchesters....so what do you hunt with, a Chief's Special ?

"I'm not sure the size of the gun is as much the problem as is time and being able to handle the situation emotionally. The event of a charge is very stressful, but will have more to do with the individual than the weapon that person has. It won't matter if it is a mad dog, a lion, a cape buffalo, or a grizzly. "

Isn't that what I said and alluded to ? I think we are on the same page here. People generally fight like they are trained, and I not going to get into fight or flight or combat mindset here, but that is what you are obviously alluding to, the ethos of the hunter and all of that...I think.

Now you live out in Wyoming where men are still men and all that rugged individualism crap. You hunt and you shoot regularly, you are an experienced hand in the ways of the wild...yet every summer and every fall, thousands of easterners and folks from Southern California descend upon your state and head for the wilds. They don't have your savvy, bucko. How many people carry 44 Spls in their 44 mags and 45 Colt in in 454 Casuls because they can't handle the heavy loads ?

When I mentioned the dog, you'll note I said 30 seconds to a minute tops.

Shot placement is absolutely critical...but you know what bucko, most people have never had something try to kill them either a dangerous animal or a man, and unless you have had that experience, chances are pure luck is what is going to ensure your survival unless you train...and that means practice and most people don't want to practice...you see that requires discipline and money and commitment, and maybe you rugged individualists out in Wyoming do that, but in my part of the country more people talk the talk than walk the walk.

Now a man has to know his limitations, bucko, and its a simple fact that a shoulder fired weapon is a much better choice FOR MOST PEOPLE because they can control it better... I know my own limitations, and for me, firing any handgun larger than .45 ACP under stress is something I know that I cannot do well...but I know that I can fire a rifle under stress (the only thing worse than a bear is when your threat has a rifle and can fire back) and prevail and I think that holds true that unless one is a master pistolero, one is better off in a life threatening situation with something that they can control. A person can usually learn to handle a rifle more quickly than handgun.

Unless I read it wrong, I don't think that the person who was going to Alaska was planning on doing handgun hunting, but wanted bear protection.

Actually we don't seem so far apart on our philosophies...but I don't think carrying two .500 S&W Mags into the tundra is the answer for most people.
I guess your just a better man than I am, bucko, but just make sure you know your limitations.

Good luck and good shooting,

Mark


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

First, I have not been to Alaska. My thoughts are a gu thaqt is not a pain to cary and then you will take it with you. A shorter barreled ruger in 44 mag or hot handloaded 45 would be my pick. Next would be a marlin guide gun in 45-70 loaded with hot loads with 400gr bullets, or handloads with the hornady 350gr bullet. A rifle is always easyer to shoot, but not as handy. The 45-70 at close range too me would be better than almost any handgun, but at close range it is a matter of hitting the right spot. What ever you choose, practice until you can hit what you want to at will. If it is second nature, it could save your life.


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## wyocarp (Jul 29, 2005)

Mark, I'm sorry. I've had a number of different animals running/charging at me and it is very unnerving. My point really is that I don't think it will make any difference what most people carry, because unless they can emotionally handle the situation, their choice of weapon makes no difference at all. And for a hiker, chances are, they won't be taking a long gun. And if it isn't a long gun, it had better be a large caliber pistol if we are talking about any of the critters that could kill. A smaller caliber pistol will work when an animal is and has been calm, but the moment that they are agitated, it is a completely different scenario.

I constantly read posts from people who are wanting to know about the proper weapon for defense but what people aren't telling them is that these animals move so quickly that unless they are able to have a weapon in their hand while hiking, they probably won't be able to defend themselves in the somewhat rare instances where these animals charge without warning. I guess this is one instance where ignorance is bliss, because until you see it, you won't believe it.

I listened to four people tell of their accounts with grizzly bear attacks at a seminar last year, and none of them had time to defend themselves. These people were seasoned hunters out hunting. They all either saw a glimpse of something, or caught some movement out of the corner of their eye, or something similar and that was all the time they had.

I'm just thinking that we are giving people very poor information to tell them to go out and buy this gun or that gun and they will have protection in the woods. I have heard that police officers are told that if someone is within twenty feet of them and they don't have their gun drawn, that it will be too late if that person attacks them. If that is true, these animals are too dangerous at distances far greater than that. I've heard times like 4.3 seconds for a bear to cover 100 yards. I don't think most people would even start reacting by the time the bear was on them.

Mark, I agree with you about the people from the east. And it isn't all people from the east, or is it so much that they are from the east but that they just don't have the exposure. While hunting this fall with a man from Texas, he argued with me over whether a moose we were looking at through glasses from quite a distance away had a rack. He still wasn't convinced that we were looking at a cow moose, even after I pointed out that there was a young one at her side that appeared to be nursing.

Maybe I'm wrong.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

If we're talking about defense against a big bear, I don't believe any handgun is enough. But If I had to choose, I would take a desert eagle in 50 AE, the 44 Auto-Mag, 45 Win Mag or finally the BFG in 45-70. My personal opinion. What everyone has said about shooting ability, etc. is first priority. Shootability counts for a lot. That's why I prefer these autos for defense. My HUNTING handgun is a TC Encore in 338-06 JDJ. I only has one shot. I would NOT choose it for defense.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Wyocarp you are right, if an animal such as a Brown or Grizzly wants to kill you it most likley will. I only know from stories no firsthand experiance but all you gotta know about Bears such as this is that, it can outrun a horse , its intelligent, it can break the neck of a buffalo in one shot and lastly is known to have a temper!! Oh ya its also known to soak up rifle shots like bee stings, other than that their push overs. IMHOP if a Tiger or Lion ever crossed paths with a Grizzly well dig a hole for that kitty cat!!


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## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

The shotgun will be tricky to carry. And heavy. And it'll get caught on everything. And it'll be an enormous pain in the ***.

You know what else hurts your ***? Getting it clawed off. Carry the damn shotgun, figure out a way to get through brush with it, do what it takes. Because life is good.

Try not to die.


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## Madison (Mar 1, 2002)

My buddy in Montana carries a S&W mountain 44mag also and luckily hasnt had to use it.. BUt loves the weight and is easy to carry once used to it.

Question: Why doesnt anyone carry Bear Spray?? WOuld this give you better odds of fleeing a charging bear??

IF you miss 5 times with the revolver and the bear is chewing on your leg, make sure to save the last one for yourself! :wink:


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