# Who owns the ducks?



## f.o.s. lover (Sep 27, 2004)

I see lots of discussion on this site about people looking to buy land and people being pist about those people looking to buy the land. This led me to think "How can you own a duck, does buying land give you the sole right to migratory game?" Ducks can move from one region to another whenever they choose or more often when they need to. If all the land is tied up for private purposes what is the purpose of the USFWS, DU, and Delta? Who are they doing all this research and work for? Who is it going to benefit in the future?


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

fos

Good question.

Here is a link that begins to answer the question.

http://www.nrpa.com/public_trust.htm

The Public Trust Doctrine is at times embroiled in heated debate, My opinion is that everyone owns them.

Bob


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

It is veruy much like saying, "who owns the air?" We all do. It is a shared resource.


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

God goes


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

God owns the air and the ducks, but the landowner owns the land and some guy from Fargo should not dictate how much it costs for some guy from Iowa to come and enjoy God's ducks and God's air and John Q. Farmer's land.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Bert, I wish you would quit holding back and tell us what you really think about people from Fargo.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

1/2 cup democracy and 1/2 cup states rights and your cup is full. I believe in both. We have the right!


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

*Bert wrote*



> God owns the air and the ducks, but the landowner owns the land and some guy from Fargo should not dictate how much it costs for some guy from Iowa to come and enjoy God's ducks and God's air and John Q. Farmer's land.


ND Century Code specifically mentions ownership of wildlife.

*20.1-01-03. Ownership and control of wildlife is in the state - Damages - Schedule of monetary values - Civil penalty. *

_*The ownership of and title all wildlife within this state is in the state for the purpose of regulating the enjoyment, use, possession, disposition, and conservation thereof, and for maintaining action for damages as herein provided. Any person catching, killing, taking, trapping, or possessing any wildlife protected by law at any time or in any manner is deemed to have consented that the title thereto remains in this state for the purpose of regulating the taking, use, possession, and disposition thereof. The state, through the office of attorney general, may institute and maintain any action for damages against any person who unlawfully causes, or has caused within this state, the death, destruction, or injury of wildlife, except as may be authorized by law. The state has a property interest in all protected wildlife. This interest supports a civil action for damages for the unlawful destruction of wildlife by willful or grossly negligent act or omission. *_

I did not see anything that referenced God in the Century Code.  While I firmly believe in God as the ultimate creator, ownership by God is more of a belief than a fact.



> the landowner owns the land and some guy from Fargo should not dictate how much it costs for some guy from Iowa to come and enjoy God's ducks and God's air and John Q. Farmer's land


Now an attempt to dispel the on going eternally posted diatribe you want us to believe.

You (and others) seem to want to constantly spew the vial image of Fargo sportsmen; there are a great many of us that are in one way or another landowners in rural ND, some through family, some through investment. Contrary to YOUR belief that we all want to keep NR hunters out of our state and dictate how we regulate our outdoors. I do not want to keep NR from hunting in North Dakota, and I can name dozens of people that I know from Fargo that feel as I do. I suspect that the percentage wanting NR elimination would be minuscule if a poll could be devised to attempt to obtain statistics. If you think that Internet sites such as this one are a true barometer of how ND feels on an issue you are wrong. It is a talk forum for Christ's sakes people come here to share information, vent, stir the pot, tell lies, give personal experiences, sell things, ask questions, etc. etc. etc.

Now lets get down to the real bur under your saddle blanket. You live on or near Dead Lake, it is a beautiful gem that I have experienced first hand, IMO dead lake should not be developed with the current proposal set forth or any other proposal. You have fought hard to quell the development proposal and it was and is an honorable fight.

The reality of the situation is that the development will probably proceed (I do not know the current status) and with the development the "lakes country" will see another parcel of land removed from the pool of perspective land available to willing buyers and willing sellers all in accordance with Minnesota Law. does this increase the price of "lakes country land? From reading your numerous posts I surmise that you want more regulations within your State and local Governments to help curb the influx of jet skies and other negative influences on your personal space while at the same time often in the same breath you chastise us (Fargoans) for regulations enacted by the Legislature of State of North Dakota. Citizens from Fargo are NOT the only ones that vote in elections to put the States Lawmakers in office. Your North Dakota Landowner friends can vote as well and many did in order to enact the current regulations.

Are the current North Dakota State hunting Regulations perfection in form and function? No they are not, weather they pertain to residents or nonresidents. They can not be because there has to be some sense of compromise to entertain all of the entities involved. Economics of hunting has taken the fore front over conservation in the last few decades.

I have been very vocal in attempt to fine-tune the laws of North Dakota that pertain to wildlife and the management thereof. It is my right to voice my opinion about issues that concern me within the boundaries of the State of North Dakota. I will not stop until it is time for me to visit your stated owner of the ducks (God willing). I fully realize that my opinion is one out of six hundred fifty thousand plus opinions expressed, some from Fargo and some from out-state, some of which agree and some disagree with the way I look at the portrait in the frame. I like to believe that my view is on point but the fact remains I have been wrong and admitted it, here on this site as well as other venues. You and the North Dakota landowner ilk that you mention time after time seem to want a scapegoat to blame for your situation in life. You seem to have picked an un-named Fargo resident. Just as few (very few if I might add) from North Dakota have picked NR hunters as the scapegoats to blame for their inability to obtain the hunt they feel they should have. Frankly from being a member of this board for a few years some of the hunters posts that have been issued that object to NR hunters have more to do with the inability of the person posting to determine how to properly hunt and the following frustration that accompanies the failure, alas find someone to blame instead of looking at the real picture and again, another log is thrown on the fire of the ND debate. Do we need this constant NR debate? I feel we do because it is our State and we should have a voice in how it is operated, however, the state of the NR debate has taken on the tone of excluding NR's instead of managing them. Do you want to manage or eliminate the Fargo "lake country" and jet ski owners?

The republic that we live within has its pros and cons and at times it moves at a pace that is lapped by a snail, more often than not from the lack of communication by it's citizens to communicate with the lawmakers we hired to do our work for us. Playing the blame game is a cop-out at any level because it is focusing the attention on others instead of taking the responsibility of ones self.

Blaming sportsmen from Fargo for your supposed lack of ability to afford hunting in North Dakota and then trying to justify it by saying you are doing so on principals is a cop out, a big one! If you really want to hunt North Dakota and it was an important part of your fall activities you can, and would do so just like thousands of other Minnesota residents. If memory serves me I even invited you to hunt with some of my friends from Fargo and out-state, you refused, so be it. The offer stands.

So from me to you be angry at the regulations of your state and ours of you want there is nothing I can do or say to help you knock the chip from your shoulder. A great many of us Fargoans have deep roots in rural North Dakota some maybe in the area where you have all of the land and landowners to yourself if you chose to come and hunt. I know for a fact that even without family land I will have places to hunt in North Dakota until it is time to hang up the decoys. Same goes for hunting upland in South Dakota, and Montana and the hunting I do in Minnesota because I look at a posted sign as an opportunity not as a road block and I respect the people that own the land and the laws of the non-native states in which I hunt. I have spent a lifetime making friends with them and new friends are on the horizon. I resent the fact that Fargo sportsmen are the focus of your ire, it is IMO misplaced and offensive when in fact you seem want much the same restrictions in your state for NR's in "lakes country".

Have a great hunting season wherever you chose to spend your time. You are welcome in North Dakota.

Bob


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Bob 
Good post, very well written. You make some good points and you miss many of my points.

When I say Fargo...I mean Fargo, GrandForks, Valley City, Devils Lake...but it is just too lengthy to post all of that and since it seems that most here seem to call Fargo home...Fargo just rolls off the keyboard so easily. Perhaps I should say "city hunters" but that raises just as much ire.

I can afford to hunt North Dakota and I do have plenty of land out there to hunt. The only thing that stops me IS principle.

Stubborn that way, always have been.

You call it a copout if you want but here is how I see it. If I come to NoDak and hunt, then I have no business being annoyed by Jet Skis from NoDak. on the lake which I do not own but live on. Dont you agree?

And no, God was not made mention by the Century Code but then, God didnt write the Code. Perhaps if He did, the wording would be different.

For that matter, none of us own anything. We just are supposed to use it and enjoy it and take care of it for a while. (here is were somebody will quote and respond "that is exactly what we are doing...taking care of it")
Were that the case, you'd limit yourselves likewise. I do it over here.

As I see it, the landowner should be the one who makes the call on who comes and hunts the critters that you and I and God own. Not you or me.

We live in a democracy and have elected officials who select experts to decide the big issues but you and I (developers) understand that money and numbers and pressure all play a part in that and sometimes the wants of a few overshadow the wants, or needs of many. Democracy (in it's unpure form) resembles dictatorship much of the time.

I dont think that sportsmen from Fargo are vial. Never said that. I view them as being no different than myself when they venture out in search of sport on land which they do not own (freelancing). That being said, they should have no more say than I do regarding that land which neither of us owns.

Im sure that they for the most part are a good bunch of guys. I just feel that they should not make the decisions on who comes to private land and who doesnt (and if you tell me that raising the prices and limiting the time was not in part an effort to limit the number of NR hunters, GOs, leasing...and to improve access to private lands for Residents, then sir, I will call you a liar).

And... can you prove otherwise that the people who drove that legislation were by majority, landowners out there. (Highly doubtful as more voters probably live in cities and towns out there than "on" the land.)

Kinda like showing up with a zillion Europeans and explaining to the Indians that this is a democracy and you can vote... but there are only couple thousand of you so stay on your reservation and dont make too much noise while we cut the timber and whack the buffalo and plow the prairies. (Here is were somebody will quote and state that saving the buffalo (ducks, access for all) is what this is all about. But it still boils down to somebody who doesnt live there dictating what goes on there.
I do not dictate that one way or another. Not only do I not vote there, I do not own land there and I do not try to meddle with the govt there. I simply voice my opinions here.

Always easiest to tax the guy who cannot vote so I do not get a say nor do I feel I deserve one.

Yes, I live on Dead Lake and yes, development will happen here. Yes, I have been very involved in trying to make the development compliment the lake instead of ruin it. Yes, Id love to see Jet Skis limited to lakes deemed "recreational".

The difference between what you are dong and what I have done, is that I LIVE RIGHT HERE! I dont live in Mpls. And I dont lobby for jet ski regulations anywhere in Mn because I do not live on all of the lakes in OT County, just this one. All I can do is be pi$$ed and wonder why people who ride those things cannot see that what is fun for one but bothers many is not a good thing for a citizen to do.

I belive in right and wrong more than I belive in laws created by man. Follow them to the letter, but right and wrong often overshadows those laws. (just because somthing is legal does not make it right)
I believe that if people are so screwed up that they can no longer see right and wrong for themselves that we are screwed as a society and no amount of law is going to change that. (See gun control)

If I were an insurance salesman from Mpls and pushed for legislation regarding the use of an individual lake in northern Minnesota, I would really have no more business doing it than an insurance salesman from Fargo. If I were a banker in town 20 miles away and I wanted to have Jet Ski races every saturday on Dead Lake without the blessings of those who live here, you can bet people would go ape and Id be right there with em.

I think that it is nuts that guys from Mpls and StPaul (Even my beloved Bud Grant) try to drive legislation regarding what happens on Mille Lacs just because that is "the" lake that they claim.

SOME of you own land out there in Nodak, many of you dont, but the recurring theme here revolves around freelancing which means access to private land which you dont own wheather or not you own a chunk. Am I wrong?

That being said, again, if you own land then you have complete control over who comes and goes on that land. That is easy. If you dont own land, then by all means you guys should have say so over the state and even some of the Federal lands but beyond that, you are really telling landowners out there what they can and cannot do with their land and who can come and use it. Who they can lease it to, sell it to, allow to hunt it on any given weekend...

There may be some reident, local, landowner farmers out there who agree wholeheartedly with your efforts. I personally know none however, and I know 10 biggies. When the subject gets brought up with my landowner friends out there, they just shake their heads.

I own hunting land 30 miles from Dead Lake (where I live), in a different County than OT. I do not consider myself a "local" in that area even though I pay Minnesota State taxes and Becker County taxes. I see no reason why I should go to township meetings and gripe or County meetings up there and gripe. I see no reason to go to my neighbors up there and emplore them to adhere to the same QDM that I hold myself and my hunters to. All I have ownership in is the land which I paid to take care of and use for the rest of my life. My taxes up there support a school district which my kids do not attend. That being said, I dont feel like I should meddle in what goes on in that district even though "technically" I have the right to and have opinions about. Legally I have that right. Consulting right and wrong...I dont.

I dont expect you or anyone else to do any more than I am doing but I dont expect people to do any less either.

How could I ***** about habitat in Mn. if I were not willing to create it at my own expense? I couldnt, so I did and now I can.

I have not written to your state govt. and voiced my opinions. I have not earned that right by moving to North Dakota. I have not spoken against any landowner out there who wishes to keep people off of his land, I have not considered myself anything other than a guest when I hunted NoDak. I was respectful and quiet and cleaned up after myself. I asked permission and consequently, I was welcomed by many.

Id like to see lower walleye limits over here. For EVERYONE...myself...all Rs and NRs included. (I impose lower limits and shorter time on myself).

Riddle me this batman...doesn't the travelling freelancer from a city in NoDak wreak just as much havoc per outing on the ducks as does an NR if not sometimes more?

Point being, if you really want what is best for the resource, keeps ducks around longer, provides more access for all...then limit the season to three weeks for residents. (except on their own land).

In my sick mind, if you are not willing to do that, then you are a hyppocrite.

Sure I am welcome out there and sure you invited me. Thank you. I appreciate it and... thank you, but no. Out of principle...no. Were the circumstances different, (If the price hadnt doubled and the time cut in half) Id be all over it. I think you would really enjoy hunting with me and my old timey gear.

You are welcome here in Minnesota too. If you want to hunt grouse with me or bowhunt whitetails, with me on my property, you are welcome and I dont even know you. (I bet I never see you though).

If you come to Dead Lake of your own volition, Id ask that you think long and hard about what you do over here and how it impacts others but, you are welcome nonetheless as I do not own any lake over here. I can ***** about what goes on on the one I live on but that is where it ends for me.

Id love hunt NDak but if I did, then I wouldnt have a leg to stand on without being a hyppocrite. So please do not try and make me look like a bad guy for not coming. I have my reasons and feel that they are layed out pretty well in this post.

Agree to disagree?

I respect you Bob. I think that you probably understand that I am not some toothless hillbilly with an axe to grind either.

I realize that I am probably not the guy you are trying to keep out (the one who stands up for what he believes, but not the one who ever killed a pickupload of ducks out there while busting a roost and leasing a field that you wanted to hunt).

By the same token, please understand that you are not necessarily the stones in my urethra either. You are not the guy doing laps in front of my house on a jetti during a confirmation party for my daughter. You are not the slob who threads 8 pound female walleyes on a stringer and frys them up two doors down. You are not the developer who calls me "neighbor" out of one corner of his mouth and makes plans for where he will spend his retirement somewhere else with the money, ruins the lakes and raises my taxes and then splits.

There are similarities between our plights. Many differences as well.

You have a great hunting season too. I am only hunting grouse and deer over here this year though. Out of principle. We are hurting for ducks unlike North Dakota.

I am making a personal statement and giving the Feds the finger for liberal seasons and limits. May not amount to much. But I am honest and sincere and control that which I feel I have a right to control. I can also give the "Norwiegen salute" to those over here shooting limits of ducks on the days they can with spinning wing decoys.

Funny that way...always have been.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Bert

Sent you a PM.

Agree to disagree? I will take you up on that, for the time being.

The aspect of freelance hunting that I subscribe to is basically not expecting anything from anyone. I do not expect the landowners of ND to allow me to hunt on their land, I ask permission or have pre-approved permission and I hunt by their rules and wishes without paying access fees unless I chose to do so. If a landowner wants to charge for access or deny me the ability to hunt unless I pay for access I generally thank them and continue on my way.

Freelance hunting to me is a way of visiting many different areas and not hunting the same area day after day. It is hunting on my own trems by my own standards facilitated by landowners that allow me to do it.

Not to split hairs :lol:



> We live in a democracy and have elected officials who select experts to decide the big issues


If it were a true democracy more than 20% of the people would be involved before, during and after elections. I look at it as more of a republic because some of us hire others to do our bidding for us and then sit back and compalain when they don't do what we want.

There are similarities and differences in the plights of border states and issues involved. With most issues it matters not weather it is a majority or a minority, What matters is weather it is right or wrong within ones self and the personal decisions that motivate us based on that result. You chose to respond to lakes issues and try to extrapolate that into issues of the of hunting in ND which are my passion. Agree to disagree, good finding common ground and acting on it, better!

Regards

Bob


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> The state has a property interest in all protected wildlife.


I looked for a suitable definition of 'property interest' in this case, and don't fully understand the declaration of such things. Anybody wanna help a dum ol farm boy? What does that mean?


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Buckseye

Short and sweet, The State owns the wildlife within the States borders and considers them property that can be sold by means of the purchase of a hunting license.

If the State did not have "property interest" it seems to me they would not have control to manage the wildlife as it would not be theirs to manage.

Not sure this is the correct answer. If an expert would care to clarify please post up. Any G-men out there?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_law

Here is a link that goes into some detail

Bob


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> doesn't the travelling freelancer from a city in NoDak wreak just as much havoc per outing on the ducks as does an NR if not sometimes more?


Per outing , maybe, but they are usually allowed to rest in between those outings instead of pounded 7 to 14 days straight.
And I know that probably wasn't your style when you were here, but it can be for some.
You seriously cannot think that this state should be a free-for-all when it comes to hunting, do you?? You really believe that there should be no limits put on any out-of-state hunters coming to ND?? Bert, do you realize what that would be like???? I know that you don't like the solutions we have tried to come up with, what would your solutions be??


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

thanks Bob... I guess I'm looking for whose liable when damage is caused by owned property.. it is usually the owner of the property that would be liable. Its like changing chords in music is seems, there's an invisible spot where the change occurs.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

buckseye, this might explain it a little better, but I'm no laywer:



> Alex Leger instituted this action against the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Commission and Burton Angelle, in his capacity as Commissioner of the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, to recover damages for the loss of his 1973 sweet potato crop. Leger's primary contention was that, since the State of Louisiana is the owner of all wild quadrupeds according to statute, it is legally responsible for damages done to his potato crop. The court held that the statutory language compels the conclusion that the state's ownership is in a *sovereign, and not a proprietary,* capacity. Thus, the nature of the ownership is as a trustee and the management duties are carried out under police power authority. The court found nothing in the cited statutes or in the law which indicates that the state has a duty to harbor wild birds or wild quadrupeds, to control their movements or to prevent them from damaging privately owned property.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Dljeye

I realize that were it a free for all, it wouldnt be much different than it is right now. Since the restrictions came to be, have NR numbers dropped? 
Of course, guys like me dont come anymore but there are plenty to fill my void.

If you really wanted to do somthing to limit the NR hunters, you would push for a cap like SD did. To raise prices and limit time in an effort to elimiate the NR pressure is counter productive.

Of course, if you guys were to say, NRs get 2 weeks and Rs get 3...that would go a long way towards accomplishing what most of you say that you are after but I dont see that happening any time soon.

If I could gamble on a cap and hunt the whole season for a reasonable price every other year or so, Id be happy. As it stands, the restrictions basically amount to extortion which will brings the worst out of NRs.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Bert,,,,What cap do we have on NR hunters?????? For Christ's sake, there is NO cap and we sell 25,000 NR waterfowl licenses. Get off your high horse and let us know what it is you don't like because there are NO restrictions that you have come up with that have been valid. You may be pi$$ed off at jet skis, so be it, but don't confuse jet skis and hunting. I don't come and cause waves on your beach, don't try to cause them on ours. You don't know squat when it comes to ND and our resources. You have a pot boiling in your gut that won't go away because of an experience none of us want to know about. Do you post the same things on the other neighboring states outdoor websites because you are unhappy with them too?? Get a life.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

hunter_58346, Get a life. You really need to. Bert is entitled to his opinion and makes good points. Nowhere did he say we have caps. quit trying to stir the pot with Bert because you are no Match.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Go play in the street


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

Bert is saying we should have caps. Please read the posts closer before going off on someone.

Personally I agree that a cap is the only effective and fair way to limit the pressure. I would like to see a cap and have the NR licenses issued in a weighted lottery type drawing similar to our deer licenses. We cannot and should not continue to raise fees to limit pressure. All we are doing is shutting out the average joe and his kids and creating this playground for the rich.

Set a cap, issue lottery licenses, eliminate the zones, allow 4 three day time periods rather than the two 7 day periods. That's my thoughts.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Sorry. I apologize to everybody. At one time there were caps in place. No zones, there was a lottery, licenses had to be applied for in July or August. There were tags issued and had to be applied at the time of the kill. Since the legislature has gotten hold of it things have gone to hell and they don't seem to be changing any time soon.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Not to critizise hunter.....but there was a cap only for 1 year.....30,000.

There has always been zones....I started hunting as a non-res. in 1962

There has never been a lottery.First come first served.


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

As to who owns the ducks, the following website is a discussion of the source document.

http://www.fws.gov/laws/lawsdigest/migtrea.html


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Per outing , maybe, but they are usually allowed to rest in between those outings instead of pounded 7 to 14 days straight


Come on djleye, do you honestly believe only non residents are hunting 7-14 days straight????? Lets put freezer limits on the residents and see how many are hunting more than just a couple of weekends.

(been a little slow this week)


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## frosty (Dec 6, 2002)

There is a freezer limit for waterfowl. It is called your possesion limit.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

not once your home


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

G/O I am not allowed to have in my possession more than twice the daily limit on any migratory bird! This issue has been gone over a thousand times. It does not matter if you are in the field or at your place of residence.

If you doubt me on this place a call to the USFWS enforcement division!

Guys in the past thought making ducks into jerky would remove them from the possession limit, but it does not. Once home,[ not a hotel or even a meat processing plant in Jamestown or Bismarck and live in Fargo or Omaha ]I can process them into jerky or sausage, but I cannot stockpile a season of hunting then do it! The issue becomes transportation and ID! Two years ago a couple guys I know of hunted ND and shipped the two day limit of birds back to IA where they live. Continued to hunt and then took a two day limit of birds home with them. They got stopped in MN and did leave enough ID on some of the birds! This lead to a full search of the vehicle and it also lead to the discovery of the shipping receipt for the other birds. They paid a very hefty fine and loss of birds, for being over the limit and *yes *a USFWS Warden went to their house and located and took those shipped birds!

I do believe that they will be allowed this year to hunt waterfowl again! They thought they had found a loophole in claiming they had gifted the birds to wife and kids, but it seems the judge did not seem to agree!!!!!!!!!

Upland is different, there is no freezer limit on grouse,ditch chickens etc or fish for that matter either but ND does have a field possession limit. Which if I travel to Harvey and hunt roosters I am restricted on total field possession if I do not bring them to my home!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ron,

Please correct me if I am wrong....

But once it is processed into sausage or what ever it is not a possession limit any more.

Example....group of 4 shoot a possession limit of ducks and geese. (two day hunt or what ever!) Then go and get it processed. Once the processed meat is done and in the groups freezer (not at the meat locker, but home!)....they can go out and shoot another possession limit.

Because if they can't.......how can we see the numbers of ducks people say they are shooting! Because 400 ducks killed is eating alot of duck!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Chuck that is exactly what I said, but you cannot be in the field, have it processed and shipped to your house and continue to hunt!! You cannot make jerky in the field and have it left over and not consumed and not run afoul of the law!

Every year this issue comes up and it is very straight forward. You have to be at your residence to have it processed or return it to your home without harvesting other birds if processed off site etc.

I may not be explaining this as clear as it should be but for those with questions, it is worth the phone call to get a clarification of what each person is doing and how it affects the possession limits!

I know a bunch of guys that eat a lot of duck when hunting in ND or other states. Unless prohibited by the state in which they hunt this is legal. Having sausage made and shipping it home while still out hunting is where they ran into trouble from what I understood.

But like everything concerning these issues, a opinion or info gathered on line is not a legal defense if you are outside of the law, even if your intent was to stay legal!

There is some real challenges with the possession laws. Take the early season goose. Legally you can harvest 5 Canada geese and have 10 in possession. Season ends on the 15th and youth season starts on the 16th and Reg season is the 23!

I have two daughters that hunt and are both eligible for youth season which is really a separate season from the Early Canada season. They can legally have in possession 10 birds each, but come the 16th even if they do not hunt, technically they are now over possession by seven birds each!!!!

Now common sense will come into play here, but think about this issue a while. Possession rules and regulations where set into place long before we had conservation seasons on snow geese, and early Canada seasons and even youth seasons. Yet nothing in the Fed frame work or rules clarifies the issues I have brought up! A simple addition to the rules stating that birds harvested during special seasons before the start of the regular season would be exempt from possession rules for a period of two weeks. This would allow for processing of birds or consumption of birds to prevent a unintended violation of the possession rules.

We eat a lot of ducks and geese as they are harvested. Up until my daughters started hunting I seldom froze a duck at all! I did not worry about being over unprocessed birds in my freezer. Now I make sure and label each package with my name or my daughters name on them. What is in them etc.....!

So if you have a question on what is legal and what is not, pick up the phone and ask! That way you are hearing it direct and there will not be any confusion on what is right or wrong!!!!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ron,

Thanks for the info!

I understood what you were saying....but just tried to clarify it with an example.

Another example.....NR hunters can not shoot a possession limit and take it to the processers and then that afternoon go out and shoot another limit!

So any NR that are doing this....they are breaking the law!


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## frosty (Dec 6, 2002)

g/o says: "not once your home"

This is exactly why guides and outfitters are having a tough time lately in ND. They don't know the rules and regulations, and they don't bother to take the time to learn.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

From the Federal Register

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 50, Volume 2]
[Revised as of October 1, 2002]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 50CFR20.33]

[Page 40]

TITLE 50--WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES

CHAPTER I--UNITED STATES FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE 
INTERIOR--(Continued)

PART 20--MIGRATORY BIRD HUNTING--Table of Contents

Subpart D--Possession

Sec. 20.33 Possession limit.

No person shall possess more migratory game birds taken in the 
United States than the possession limit or the aggregate possession 
limit, whichever applies.

Bob


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> G/O I am not allowed to have in my possession more than twice the daily limit on any migratory bird! This issue has been gone over a thousand times. It does not matter if you are in the field or at your place of residence.


Yes Ron but the way I understand it, as long as the meat is processed and in your residential freezer you're clear to sail because their is not a posession limit on light geese. NR must keep proper I.D on all birds and rightfully so, I'm not complaining there, but it's a loop hole open to only the resident if they want it. Please correct me if I'm off here.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> Come on djleye, do you honestly believe only non residents are hunting 7-14 days straight????? Lets put freezer limits on the residents and see how many are hunting more than just a couple of weekends.


Not at all, but I would be willing to be that there are more NR hunting 7 days straight than residents. NDSU did a study on this. My group has a 5 day trip planned this year but we will be shooting honks, ducks, and upland (and maybe deer!!) , not just solely concentrating on waterfowl.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Goldy if you come and hunt ND, and have been hunting at home, just like me or anyone else technically if you have a breasted out duck in the freezer of a couple geese, you are not allowed to shoot any more birds than what your Fed possession limit allows. So on your return trip home from ND, you would only be allowed to take back 9 birds.

Now I go and spend a couple days hunting in Minot area and live in Fargo. I have two whole birds or breasted out birds in my freezer, I am allowed to bring back 8 birds. No special privilege no change in possession rules for me!

Sausage as I was told and once again it is best to check with the Fed enforcement dept has to be smoked to be classified as processed! Simply grinding the meat and freezing it is not a change in the rule of possession as it was explained to me!

Now as I explained about the guys whom I know that got ticketed, even though they had sent the birds in a processed form to their house, the issue was that they harvested more birds before the packages had arrived at the home, and simply putting the names of wife and kids on the packages did not meet the qualifications of a gift either!

Lots of opinions on this rule get bantered about each fall and I encourage everyone to call and get a clear answer to the situations they are looking at. Do not run afoul of the law and run the risk of loosing hunting privileges over something that can be simply cleared up with a phone call!!!!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Djleye.....

Most NR do the same......Honks, ducks, snows, upland, fish, etc....
___________________________________________________________

I am not sure about the federal rule.....

Example....

One goes to canada to hunt ducks after thier home state opener.....they have 4 birds in the freezer from thier home state. In canada shoot a possession limit...so when they return from canada.....they are over the federal limit!

The way I understand it.....Is that you can have a possession limit for every state you have a liscense in. Again correct me if I am wrong.

Example......I hunt MN and have a possession limit in my freezer of breasted out birds (12). I go to ND and again bring home a pocession limit of Birds (12). Then I go to canada and bring home a possession limit of birds (16). I can technaclly have 40 breasted birds in the freezer.

But again if I am wrong...please clarifiy me.

I might just have to make a couple of calls to see what is up. The reason why I say a couple....I want to get the same answer from 2 people or more! Then you will know it is a law not an *interpertation* of the LAW!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> G/O I am not allowed to have in my possession more than twice the daily limit on any migratory bird! This issue has been gone over a thousand times. It does not matter if you are in the field or at your place of residence


Yep you are so correct my mistake Ron. Please forgive me..



> My group has a 5 day trip planned this year but we will be shooting honks, ducks, and upland (and maybe deer!!) , not just solely concentrating on waterfowl.


djleye, I hope the hell you won't me in my neighborhood!!!!! :******:


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

We actually decided that we will be surrounding your personal nirvana and scaring away all the game we can. Since I didn't get the bow tag for $25.00, I don't want anyone else to get it either!!!!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Since I didn't get the bow tag for $25.00,


You really were asleep that night it was a rifle tag, the big guns. Non Resident no less, just think you could have had one of your in laws hunt ND for once. Plus lodging for 3 more you could have brought FH with you and Jim. And to top it off you could have had my company for 3 days. You missed the boat on that one.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Chuck you can have a possession limit from Canada and Mexico as they are foreign countries and they do not count against your possession limit in the US.

*BUT POSSESSION LIMITS ARE SET BY THE FEDS! SO YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED A LIMIT AND POSSESSION LIMIT FOR EVERY STATE LICENSE YOU MAY POSSESS. YOU ARE ALLOWED THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOUR STATE AND THE STATE YOU HUNTED IF IT IS GREATER IE. MN AND ND THIS YEAR AGAIN!*

I am not shouting just making sure that people understand this,because it is a very common misconception! It can also get confusing with different bag and possession limits from state to state!
[/b]


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Bert said:


> God owns the air and the ducks, but the landowner owns the land and some guy from Fargo should not dictate how much it costs for some guy from Iowa to come and enjoy God's ducks and God's air and John Q. Farmer's land.


God owns that too...we are just renting it :lol:


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> Sausage as I was told and once again it is best to check with the Fed enforcement dept has to be smoked to be classified as processed! Simply grinding the meat and freezing it is not a change in the rule of possession as it was explained to me!


Ron, I guess the example I was trying to explain was that as long as there is not a posession limit on Light Geese and you are a resident you COULD have an entire meat locker at your residence full of processed jerky/ or maybe it's smoked sausage and label them (if you wanted to) as "light geese" and you would be legal even though they are something else and I'm not thinking about the dead pet flock of canaries.

I know the NR law on posession, although the "gifting of birds" is one I'd study over if I were ever to do it, but have not yet done and don't really care to. What I (as an NR) have to do to stay legal in posession compared to a resident is the difference in the example that I explained above. I personally don't see why it should be any different for a resident from anywhere in the US. Posession limit is possession limit and legal I.D could be enforced for everyone but is not. Heck if I marinade a bird for lunch to stay posession legal in Nodak I dang well better eat all of it because a left over slice or two will get me federal charges and the local Motel in ND is where the warden will be surely sniffing and not tupperware containers in friges down residential main street.



> Lots of opinions on this rule get bantered about each fall and I encourage everyone to call and get a clear answer to the situations they are looking at.


I know, I get sick of this topic and you are right on that, call to be sure. I just don't get the feds logic on this one but that's my problem I guess.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Goldy I have heard of people getting busted for having birds in marinate and not leaving ID on the birds. I tend to chalk that kind of talk up to urban myth status because I do not know of anyone personally that has been popped for this.

I do know people that are Res that have been sited for trying to use the processed rule that where Res. Like I have said just check. Because the biggest mistake is to go forward on something like this and be wrong because you read it on the Internet!!!!!!!!


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> You really were asleep that night it was a rifle tag, the big guns. Non Resident no less, just think you could have had one of your in laws hunt ND for once. Plus lodging for 3 more you could have brought FH with you and Jim. And to top it off you could have had my company for 3 days. You missed the boat on that one.


I guess I was too busy working so Field Hunter couold be dozing off in the back of the room.!!!! 8) :roll: :wink:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ron,

Thank you for the clarification.

I think alot of people have the same misconception that I have.

Again, 
Thank you.

Chuck


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Who ownes the ducks?

The answer can be found in the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution - it talks about States Rights and it's all spelled out right there.

Hydro


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Invector

If you read (yes READ) the rest of my post you will see that I state that in fact, none of us own anything, we are merely in charge of it for a while.

The landowner (guy who paid $ for his right (+taxes) to take care of that particular chunk of land) should have more say so, regarding who comes and goes than you or I (until the day when God steps in and tells us we are all a bunch of frickin idiots for getting so bent out of shape about it in the first place.)

I swear! God must to have Pepsi squirting out of his nose just about every time he looks down on our "troubles".


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Bert and g/o,

Restriction #1

#2

#3

Seems none are filled out yet. Can you explain??


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

????? :huh:


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

What that meant was,,,,they have repeatedly stated that the restrictions placed on NR hunters were to severe but have yet to name just one restriction.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Hunter...

Restrictions people are getting upset about (not me but some):

1. Only haveing 14 days to hunt.

2. The Resident only opener.

3. Cost of liscense.

Again I don't care about any of these. But the one thing that gets my blood boiling is when people talk about limiting the number of NR lisc sales. Then you are taking oppurunities away for people.

Here are some things I think that would help out....

1. Having the 14 day lisce.....but you can only hunt 7 days in a row and 
need a 5 days apart from each lisc period. (effects the NR)

2. Rest days.....example no hunting on weds. 
(Effects all but mainly the NR)

3. No hunting past 4 pm for the first couple of weeks of the season. 
(Effects all)

4. Add another $3-$5 fee to NR lisces that goes directly into enforcement 
or habitat. (Effects the NR)

You see most of these things suggested mainly effect the NR while the R has to give a little. This will look like the whole is trying to help out the birds. Not just.....LETS CUT NR LISC. SALES.

Here is how these will help...

1. - Pressure on birds! 
- The whole people shooting 14 days worth of limits.
- People need to make a return trip...more money for local businesses

2. - Pressure on birds. It only hurts the R one day and it is in the middle of the week.

3. - again pressure on birds. 
- Gets the NR in the bars earlier :wink: 
- Only downside....youth hunting after school.

4. - Gives money to habitat and enforcement.
- More places to hunt
- More birds.

Sorry to hi-jack this thread. But These are things to purpose to legislature and see what happens. I am sure it has been discussed. But I think these will help more in the long run than.....just lower the number of NR hunters.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Hunter_58346, To make you happy :lol: :lol:

1. The number one thing on my list is PLOTS being closed for a week to N/R

2.Changing the upland license to 10 days then to 14.

3. Waterfowl Zones

I'm sure you do not agree, and that is fine. You asked and I gave you my top three.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> 1. - Pressure on birds!
> - The whole people shooting 14 days worth of limits.


Chuck, do you really think that NR shoot 14 straight days worth of limits?

I scout 2 days and hunt 5, even if I could eat 6 ducks per day for 3 straight days and package home the next 2 days of limits that would not only be a heck of a lot of duck to eat (eighteen) but would also mean that each hunt was a good quality hunt shooting wise. I'll tell you that some are a complete bust out there at times and everyone on here can vouch for that from what I've read in the past 3 years. 14 straight days of limits just isn't happening or even possible for my stomach to handle.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

g/o, Ok I see what bothers you now but reason for a minute. The whole PLOTS deal is because some over zealous legislators that are better suited to 9-5 jobs are trying to write laws and they worded the bill wrong. It was voted on , passed, and put into law before anybody knew what was happening. It was NOT supported by and sportsmans groups in ND.

Waterfowl Zones? That is at best a joke and was put into place to appease the very few. And for $125.00 you can hunt the entire state, no zones.

How many NRs can come and hunt for 14 days? From what I hear from the average Joe hunter is that they can only afford ONE trip out here and it would be for 4-7 days anyway. Waterfowl or upland. What would you propose?

It isn't wether I agree or disagree. There are no caps on #'s of hunters, there has to some control or it would be a free for all and then what would happen or where would the blame be placed? There are people that think that the resident hunter here in ND deserves no better treatment than somebody that has never set foot here. The resident only opener is a prime example. Like it or not, we do deserve it and we are taking advantage of it.

I don't particularily appreciate the fact that for a quality elk hunt in Montana will cost me close to $1,000.00 but I envy them for having that resource and protecting it the way they do. I envy South Dakota for some of the things they do also but it does absolutely no good to ***** about their regulations.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

By the way, South Dakota charges $110.00 for a 10 day pheasant license, one time only. North Dakota charges $85.00 for one 14 day period,BUT, you can purchase another 14 day license if you like.

Montana charges $110.00 plus $10.00 habitat fee.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

SD also has tons of rich "sports" that look like they just got puked out of a Cabelas catalogue that show up there in the fall to shoot birds. They do, however, bring millions of $$$ into the state and that is what this is all about, right!!!! uke:


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> They do, however, bring millions of $$$ into the state and that is what this is all about,


By God your learning djleye!!!! I was at a meeting and Gov. Rounds spoke, lets say this. It's a whole different attitude down there.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> It's a whole different attitude down there


What was the attitude like down there G/O?


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Ahhhhh, G/O, you missed the Puke sign on my quote!!! :eyeroll:


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

> It's a whole different attitude down there


Yup millions of pheasants, thousands of outfitters, thousands of shooting preserves, little public hunting land that is worth a hoot, unless you ditch/road hunt (then you get confronted by the adjacent landowners for shooting into their air space) :roll: and lest we forget only 4000 NR hunters get a chance at hunting waterfowl. :beer:

Sounds like a dream spot to me. 

Why shouldn't the attitude be different it is a pay to play state been that way for a long time.

I hunt SD with family / friends we stay off the beaten path and it is very enjoyable, it is pretty unbelievable to see all of the Corp jets in Sioux Falls, and some of the smaller airports in the state though

Bob


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Now,now, now Bob you are exaggerating just a wee bit here aren't we!!!!
First of all we haven't hit 1000 yet in the shooting preserves dept. but we are getting close. The exact number of outfitters??? who knows its not regulated like ND. 4000 waterfowl licenses another misconception. Actually there are many more than 4000 but they are restricted to certain area's. Hmmmm where have we heard that before??

Tourism is a major player in South Dakota's economy. It has been for years with the Black Hills. Then they have these little events like the Sturgis Motor Cycle Rally which brings in just a few $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ every year. So is Pheasant hunting.....

Getting beat up here day after day it was refreshing for a Gov. and people from the game and fish tell you how important you are to there economy. And that you are going nowhere.. Like I say it is nice to be appreciated once in awhile.

As far as walking ditches and arguing over airspace. I pray to God we never see that here. We can learn some from SD and they could learn some from us. I'm proud of what I do and I am important part of ND'S economy as well whether you boys like it or not.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Now, now, now g/o I was having a little fun with you  And you know very well that I agree that we do need SOME outfitters in ND.

I havn't picked on you much at all lately :lol: You did give this old heart a shot today with your post on another forum though. What is it they say about payback......... :beer:

Bob


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

But g/o, imagine what you could do for the economy if you weren't a g/o.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Bob, your new site will not let me log on as g/o that is not allowed. Funny you have that figured out so I had to use and alias. :beer: it was either that or Cootkiller

GG, What???


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

All the fighting about guides and outfitters here on Nodak has to reduce the GDP enough to offset any money they bring into the state.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

Who owns the ducks???

I thought everyone knew that....

ME!!!!

At least that's what I say when they come cupped into the spread.
"You are MINE duck!" 
:sniper: BLAM, BLAM, BLAM :sniper:

Of course, they don't always realize I own them, otherwise more would die and less would fly away :wink:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Bob Kellam said:


> > It's a whole different attitude down there
> 
> 
> Yup millions of pheasants, thousands of outfitters, thousands of shooting preserves, little public hunting land that is worth a hoot, unless you ditch/road hunt (then you get confronted by the adjacent landowners for shooting into their air space) :roll:
> ...


Boy if I only read this one post, I would have thought you were discussing Mott/Regent and Cannonball Co., and if I didn't read the world Sioux Falls you could easily substitute Dickinson airport.

I remember seeing several years in a row(including last year) all the Corporate Leer jets parked out on the Dickinson tarmac. I remember watching one group, unload their gear directly into 2 brand new matching black Sax Chevy 2005 Suburbans with dealer plates. I'm sure they were just "loaned" to them as they were interested in probably purchasing them right? :eyeroll:

Usually the average guy doesn't see this type of luxury and opulence coming into the state, or they might realize what true "big money" is...

Ryan


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> I remember watching one group, unload their gear directly into 2 brand new matching black Sax Chevy 2005 Suburbans with dealer plates. I'm sure they were just "loaned" to them as they were interested in probably purchasing them right?


Geez have you ever heard of rental? This is bad??



> Usually the average guy doesn't see this type of luxury and opulence coming into the state, or they might realize what true "big money" is...


I just don't get it, why are you against successful people?? Just because people are successful we should penalize them? Talk about class envy.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Goldy,

I know people don't shoot 14 days worth of limits.....I was just making an example. Because others on this site have stated NR's are doing this. Some might. But most are like you and I. Scout a few days....then hunt a couple and then scout, etc.

Chuck


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Chuck, I read into your post a different way I guess. One of those cyber space mis-interps, and another example of why I don't like computers at times. Thanks.
:beer:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

g/o said:


> > I remember watching one group, unload their gear directly into 2 brand new matching black Sax Chevy 2005 Suburbans with dealer plates. I'm sure they were just "loaned" to them as they were interested in probably purchasing them right?
> 
> 
> Geez have you ever heard of rental? This is bad??
> ...


Who said I'm against successful people? That is a very broad generalization that I resent. Rather I'm against the subsequent effects that arise from guys who are that wealthy coming into the state. They are basically flying in to have a party at the state's expense. Those types of "hunting parties" are not paid for out of their pocket, but rather at the expense of the consumer. The whole event is written off as a "business meeting", thereby nullifying the vast majority of personal expense incurred by the individual. Instead it is passed on as a cost to me as a shareholder of his stock. Paying for his little party is not my idea of the type of NR I want coming into the state.

Furthermore, who says I'm not in their class or income bracket? Do you know me G/O? This has nothing to do with class envy. These big $$ big wigs simply don't have the small town values that most on these boards have. They could care less about the resident sportsman. Ohh sure they'll give you "lip service" about how they really are good sportsmen who donate money to the "cause" of open hunting, but at their core they want a piece of it all for themselves & buddies.

What you don't understand G/O is that _you_ can't even compete in their economic stratus. It is only a matter of short time before enough of these types come to ND and realize how truly cheap it is to buy property in the state.

I see you were looking at locking up more land recently in the classifieds.... Guess what? Pretty soon *you'll *be competing with them for that land. You simply don't fully comprehend the economics of the situation. When I look at buying a first time homebuyer home out here in the Seattle metro area, I"m looking at an average price of approx. $400,000 if I want a"starter" house, and $225,000 if I want a 1 bedroom condo. The area where I currenly live (which I agree is in a higher end part of town) near Lake Sammamish has an average price home of approximately $2.75 million dollars, and there are dozens of homes within rifle shot that exceed $5 million. I looked at a piece of bare undeveloped land (21 acres) that is for sale approx 4 miles from my place. Guess what the cost of it was? Currently it is just over $200,000! All these for sale homes have mulitiple bidders vying for the chance to purchase, and most homes sit on the market for less than 1 week.

These people have $$ coming out their ears! Many fancy themselves as sportsmen too... and they have a need to re-invest their extra money. Your cheap *** land is peanuts compared to the economics they are used to seeing...

The problem you have G/O is that your industry is willing to sacrifice the future generations of hunting and the type of hunting that used to exist for the short term present generation opportunity to turn a quick buck. You and your industry's lack of foresight on the issue will ultimately come back to bite every resident in the ***. Their children will no longer have opportunities that now exist. Instead very ruch urbanites from another state will hold the access strings to prime property. These absentee landowers don't care what the residents think. All they will care about is making sure they have a solid investment that they can occasionally visit to come play and party on.

Yeah right... I have class envy...sure I do...

If you think I'm that shallow and short sighted you have no real clue as to who I am. Rest assured some day G/O, if I decide to continue living out here, being compensated at the going rate, and eventually having some of that excess money that will need to be reinvested to avoid taxes, I'll come looking to ND for hunting land.

The question is... will _you or your children_ be able to compete with *my* economics when that day comes.

Ryan


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Furthermore, who says I'm not in their class or income bracket? Do you know me G/O? This has nothing to do with class envy. These big $$ big wigs simply don't have the small town values that most on these boards have. They could care less about the resident sportsman. Oh sure they'll give you "lip service" about how they really are good sportsmen who donate money to the "cause" of open hunting, but at their core they want a piece of it all for themselves & buddies.


 how do you know that?? I've had to many to mention owners of businesses at my place and the majority are as down to earth as they come. They grew up and acquired there wealth by hard work and knowledge. They didn't wake up one morning and say geez I'm wealthy and own this business.



> I see you were looking at locking up more land recently in the classifieds


I wasn't alone on that Rick Aker is my partner on that venture so you better get on his a$$ also.



> Guess what? Pretty soon you'll be competing with them for that land. You simply don't fully comprehend the economics of the situation.


Really?? Wow, I'm glad you brought this to my attention. I guess I'd better pay attention. Gee thanks!!



> These people have $$ coming out their ears! Many fancy themselves as sportsmen too... and they have a need to re-invest their extra money. Your cheap a$$ land is peanuts compared to the economics they are used to seeing...


Golly Ben Elli do you think you could send them my way I would really like to sell them some land.



> Yeah right... I have class envy...sure I do...


Glad you admit it



> If you think I'm that shallow and short sighted you have no real clue as to who I am. Rest assured some day G/O, if I decide to continue living out here, being compensated at the going rate, and eventually having some of that excess money that will need to be reinvested to avoid taxes, I'll come looking to ND for hunting land.
> 
> The question is... will you or your children be able to compete with my economics when that day comes.


You are right again I have no idea who you are and could care less...

What my children and grand children do with there lives is up to them. How do you know there "economics" will not be better than yours???? How about that.

I think you are probably very good at what you do, and I hope you make it big someday. But please grow up a little.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

G/O You should take your own advice!!! The way in which you post.


> But please grow up a little.


That right there is a childesh remark.


> You are right again I have no idea who you are and could care less...


That sounds pretty childish to me.
So please take your own advice, and stop trying to be-little people or just don't post anymore!!
Go ahead and start throwing those shot at me. You seem to be pretty good at it, and it's what I expect from you!


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Rick Acker Are we talking about the same guy that was whining about Gander Mountain leasing land? Rick have you gone to the dark side?


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> for $125.00 you can hunt the entire state, no zones.


It's $140.00. The $125.00 is only the waterfowl license, NR also need to purchase the Furbearer Certificate ($2), and a General Game and Habitat License ($13).

Gas? Around $500.00. Someone once told me that your dogs price tag is the cheapest part of owning one. I guess the same can be said about a lot of things.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Goldy Your right its not a cheap sport to pursue.Its getting worse better bring your toothbrush.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

you forgot the $15 duck stamp


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Hunter_58346 said:


> you forgot the $15 duck stamp


No I didn't, since I hunt my own state as well that stamp is a given purchase that I would not include into the NR fee. To me that would be like puting the shotgun shell tab on Nodak, it's just part of the game no matter where.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Old Hunter said:


> Rick Acker Are we talking about the same guy that was whining about Gander Mountain leasing land? Rick have you gone to the dark side?


g/o could answer that .


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I'm still offering my guiding services around Neche...G/O helped me lease out just about everything around there. Should be a GREAT season!


Rick posted this, and then I put an add in the classifieds looking for land to lease in the Neche area. To contact myself or Rick....It Was A Joke!!!


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## HonkerExpress (Sep 23, 2005)

I am going to go through the posts on here one day when I have absolutely nothing else better to do and find how many are about a bunch of people fighting, lol. I don't think I have enough time in a day to go through this, good thing hunting seasons are starting soon, that way maybe it will settle down a bit. Its about like when deer hunting roles around in my neck of the woods. Best friends can become worst enemies over night. In my opinion, no one owns the ducks, we just harbor them while they are migrating back and forth. I beleive we should all be able to enjoy the sport, thats my two cents.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Wow, Ben Elli! Sounds like you are very jealous of anyone who works his butt off and/or gets lucky in business and then decides take a guided hunting trip somewhere! All kinds of us mortals save up and do a guided hunt once or twice or even three times in our lifetimes somewhere, Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, wherever! Hardly a "Party at the expense of the ND taxpayers!" and that sort of stuff doesn't get writtten off as a busness expense any more - most legitimate businesss follow what the IRS says, cause they know they'll probably get nailed if they don't. Also, most sucessful responsible patriotic busnessmen feel that it is their obligation to pay whatever the government tells them, for better or worse. My accountant friends tell me that rarely does the responsible hard working guy ever suggest cheating on his taxes. Why would he? Same reason a responsible hard working individual wouldn't rob a bank or hold up some little old lady! When you work hard and get "rich" you'll find out about this!
I hope you do well in business over your lifetime, and if you write up a new computer operating system, or work hard and accomplish something productive, I sure hope you still feel that anyone who does well is "stealing" it from someone else, and hope you then make a donation to my retirement hunting/fishing fund! Better yet, how about throwing a "Party of the Prairie" for all us Nodak Outdoors guys here in ND! 
But no one owes you a living! You've got to get going and earn it yourself! Then you can spend it any way you want to! 
As a private individual with some awfully good hunting land who regularly lets people hunt it's the hunter (usually young) who has a "sense of entitlement" and feels every landowner OWES him access that absolutely drives us landowners nuts! Nothing personal, but the type of guy who thinks the world owes him a living and landowners owe him access and are obviously jealous of what you have worked hard to build up all your life are the type that give all responsible sportsmen a black eye.
But I'm way off the topic. I'm out of here.......


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> I remember watching one group, unload their gear directly into 2 brand new matching black Sax Chevy 2005 Suburbans with dealer plates. I'm sure they were just "loaned" to them as they were interested in probably purchasing them right?


Yeah I was thinking I'd borrow the neighbors old mini-van for the trip out this year. The last thing I'd want to do is look like a successful tourist with money on a business write off and ride in Pa's rig. Besides some car trouble out there would be just sweet, always makes for a good time all around. Can you rent a Plymouth Valiant? My sister had one back in the 70's. Man what a nice rig for hunting, I would have room for 6 decoys and both boxes of shells for a week.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

You have a point, Goldy's Pal! Don't laugh, but I knew a local attorney who kept specifically for hunting, an old rusty Chevy pickup with a fuel tank in the back, and an old battered Stevens pump on a rack in the back window and would wear an old sweaty stained CENEX cap and dirty overalls whenever he went hunting. He'd pull into a farmer's yard, and as he grew up on a farm he could "talk the talk and walk the walk" and claimed he would always get permission to hunt after a half hour of BS'ing! Over the hill he'd take off the hat and coveralls and take out his Browning Superposed (the Cadillac in those days) from behind the seat and be off hunting with a smile. Said it always worked! 
So you may be on to something! Maybe I should start up a "Rent a Rusty Pickup Heap complete with a beater shotgun in the rear window" at the ND border! Then I could afford an African or Alaskan hunt! Ha!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Wow HH

Kinda ironic... I just finished writing a reply to a post complementing and praising you.... and then I come here and find this.

My first thought after reading this was... "Wow this came out of left field, slightly off topic, seemingly almost appearing as though you had an axe to grind with me"

Do you? Did I offend with an earlier post about a topic (or even you) that hit close to home? hmmmmm



Habitat Hugger said:


> Wow, Ben Elli! Sounds like you are very jealous of anyone who works his butt off and/or gets lucky in business and then decides take a guided hunting trip somewhere! All kinds of us mortals save up and do a guided hunt once or twice or even three times in our lifetimes somewhere, Alaska, Montana, Wyoming, wherever!


I'm not jealous at all of someone who does this. Congratulations to them to take a "trip of a lifetime" or visit another location to experience the type of hunting a certain region has *once*. I personally wish ALL NR's were of that flavor or single family freelancers. To me that is what hunting is all about. What I'm referring to in my posts are the BIG $$$ corporate fat cats or independent wealthy urban neocons and their ilk who see ND as just another opportunity to fill their gullet with more shooting, partying, and purchasing guranteed success while they are in ND. They tend to be the ones that come back year after year after year, with lots of $$ to flaunt, and act like a big wheel.

Those types are also the types who see a "Land for Sale" sign and immediately make a phone call to purchase it. Your random once-in-a-lifetime guys aren't doing this.



> "Party at the expense of the ND taxpayers!" and that sort of stuff doesn't get writtten off as a busness expense any more - most legitimate businesss follow what the IRS says, cause they know they'll probably get nailed if they don't.


This is entirely incorrect. Don't guess at things you are not certain about. It ruins your credibility. I've seen it from both sides, having seen, participated and discussed business write offs with my accountant, and the companies I worked for previously.



> Also, most sucessful responsible patriotic busnessmen feel that it is their obligation to pay whatever the government tells them, for better or worse. My accountant friends tell me that rarely does the responsible hard working guy ever suggest cheating on his taxes. Why would he? Same reason a responsible hard working individual wouldn't rob a bank or hold up some little old lady!


I completely agree with this. However you are insinuating that they are somehow cheating on taxes by doing this. Technically they are within the bounds of the law and doing nothing illegal. It may be bending the tax laws, but they find a loophole to ensure that a "business meeting" has taken place.



> When you work hard and get "rich" you'll find out about this!


Nice attempt at a put down. :roll:



> I hope you do well in business over your lifetime, and if you write up a new computer operating system, or work hard and accomplish something productive, I sure hope you still feel that anyone who does well is "stealing" it from someone else, and hope you then make a donation to my retirement hunting/fishing fund!


Thanks for those thoughts. I hope you are genuinely sincere about wishing me well. Reading further into the rest of this paragraph, however you are insinuating (again) that my current beliefs are somehow flawed, that somehow I must believe that I resent anyone who does well "is stealing"... *FAR FROM IT* Rather I'm against the likely "nuclear fallout" of the situation we currently have with the huge influx of NR's. Many of the new NR's (those who started coming to ND in the last few years since the boom began) are a different kind of "sportsman". Someone with very large means to travel multiple places every year, purchase guided hunts, multiple airline flights, stay at fancy hosted resorts etc... _THOSE_ types of NR's are a threat to the very future of what ND hunting has always stood for. They come here to rape the resource. They purchase a guranteed outcome for their time spent within ND's borders. They are not the freelance NR who comes up does his fair share of scouting, brings his son/daughter along and makes a 4 day trip up from Minneapolis, and ultimately has some success. The freelance NR Definitely is NOT like the big $$ NR (no easy limits, coffee made and poured for him, birds cleaned while he drinks bourbon while having a leisurely lunch kinda guy.)



> As a private individual with some awfully good hunting land who regularly lets people hunt it's the hunter (usually young) who has a "sense of entitlement" and feels every landowner OWES him access that absolutely drives us landowners nuts!


I've seen your posts on what criteria you allow people to hunt. Don't make it sound like you are offering up guranteed access to anyone who comes along for anything they want to hunt. Otherwise I'll take you up on the tacit offer and come knocking on your door in a few weeks (again), and determine whether you are blowing smoke up my a$$.

On another note, just to clarify for you....I don't have a "sense of entitlement" mentality. I've lived in ND longer than you have. ( I saw your reference to when you came here). I've personally experienced the changes in the quality of hunting we have here. I am happy hunting the land I have access to, working public land, and developing new relationships as they come along. I never assume I have guranteed access, and regularly work with my family to make sure we continue to foster the relationships we do have. I'm not personally worked up or worried or feel any kind of "entitlement", but rather I do feel a "sense of frustration" that $$$ is wrecking one of the last bastions of normalcy in the hunting world.

You were in the same boat as I was prior to you purchasing your property. Now you can see things from both sides of the fence having property that you now control the "access strings" to. Do you have a different perspective now? It would seem that *YOU *now have a "sense of superiority" that you are a landowner to some property. It drives *ME* nuts when a "new" landowner (non farmer) purchases a new piece of property and immediately takes a "holier-than-thou" attitude with his new paradise. I've seen it many many times whereby a piece of property that has traditionally had some form of open access is all of a sudden tied up by the new landowner. Guys who have had access from the farmer (or his family) for dozens of years, now have to go ask the new landowner to determine if they can continue to have permission to hunt this ground. IN THIS specific scenario, I've seen DOZENS of times now whereby the new owner has the worse attitude towards the hunter coming up to him. In almost every case where this scenario has played out, access is denied and the hunter is resentful that something he used to have access to is now gone. As a result of these types of experiences and word of mouth, I know many people who no longer ask for access from these new landowners.

I will admit that when I've gotten denied personally in these situations, that later on I've silently steamed that this isn't a "normal" landowner(e.g NOT a farmer). It makes me resent having to get denied by a rich man turning me away from his property because of selfish reasons vs. "Joe Farmer" who has family coming home to hunt, his horses/cows are in the adjacent field or it is too near his combining activities etc... I respect farmer Joe turning me down.

So tell me HH, thinking back to when you've been asked permission... does this scenario apply?



> Better yet, how about throwing a "Party of the Prairie" for all us Nodak Outdoors guys here in ND!
> But no one owes you a living! You've got to get going and earn it yourself! Then you can spend it any way you want to!


How about the same offer from you HH? Why don't you throw a "Party on the Prairie" for all the regular NoDaker's here? :beer:



> Nothing personal, but the type of guy who thinks the world owes him a living and landowners owe him access and are obviously jealous of what you have worked hard to build up all your life are the type that give all responsible sportsmen a black eye.
> But I'm way off the topic. I'm out of here.......


Excellent post overall HH. I sure hope you weren't being cynical in your reply. I really enjoy all of your thoughts on here.

I'm just passionate about not turning ND into a (very) rich man's sandbox.

PM me to continue the discussion in private, and we can stay on topic, or feel free to respond to the masses here. It's up to you.

Regards,

Ryan

.


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## Bob Aronsohn (Mar 21, 2005)

Hello Ryan,

Very well done post.

You touched on a subject that hit home with me and that is when land changes hands. I cringe when this happens. I still go ask permission from the new land owner because the worst he or she can say is no. If I know the land is going up for sale and it's a place I've hunted for years I ask the land owner if he would be kind enough to put a word in for me to the new owner about the hunting.

Nobody likes to see a good hunting spot go away, you just have to learn to live with it, it isn't easy!

Bob A.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Well, Ryan, I think if you knew me better you would find me generous to a fault. I'm not really always a grumpy old outdoorsperson, but I really get my hackles up when I hear people accusing others of being "rich." I bought my land almost 30 years ago and have done virtually every bit of the physical work on it myself, planted thousands of trees, built a dam for wildlife and fish, put in food plots, etc. Probably why I'm a bit crippled up with my back, now. And I've done all the physical work and put in every cent of the money myself, with no tax write offs! Money that I DIDN'T spend on big campers, huge fishing boats, a huge house, huge gas guzzlers, luxury fish houses, and so on. 
And believe it or not I've let people hunt here and they've in return, snickered about how "rich" I am! Like most of the out of staters you dislike, I'm just another hard working guy who went to college (?18-20years? I lost count) got a wall full of degrees, paid off student loans till I was almost 45, looked after my own retirement, put my kids through college, never cheated on my taxes,etc. Go read the book "the millionare next door" (I can't remember who wrote it) but maybe you will understand what I mean!
So if you say I let people in to hunt "on my terms" you are darned right! You own the pheasants and the deer and wildlife, but I OWN THE hard earned land and FANTASTIC HABITAT! (Thus my name. And I'm darned proud of it! ) I won't take your share of wildlife, but with a resentful attitude toward people who appear "rich" to you, you won't either on my land! My own terms are simply don't litter, don't smoke, shoot all the pheasants and catch all the fish you want,(even though they are MY fish!) shoot deer but PLEASE shoot some does (nobody EVER hass in the past 12 years, one thing that irks me about buck only shooters) If that's tough 'regulations" to hunt on my paradise then too bad! 
I've even been called "rich" because I have my own plane, which I built myself,(building another one, too) and my own airport, which I also built myself! Not a Lear Jet, just a small snowmobile engine powered little fun thing flying of a small grass strip. But an amazing number of people are envious of even that! And I drive a compact car (my wife's) and compact truck! (all mine!) 
So if I have stuff and have opportunities to do things that you don't like or agree with, then deal with it! Those guys getting off in Dickinson are probably hard working people too, and don't need to be resented for their successes! I love this web site for a lot of reasons, (and I hit all the hunting fishing ones) but this website seems to collect more out-of-stater-and-rich-people-haters than all the rest of them put together..... Most of the posters are pretty down to earth, though and I'm sure put a lot back into the environment and state. There are a few whiners, though..... 
Seriously, if you are ever in the area, come on out and hunt. I'd love to meet you and hope I'd be pleasantly surprised! But one comment of how 'rich" I may appear to you, then don't let the pit bull bite you on the azzzz on the way out! 
Sorry if I offended you, but if I remember on another post you were complaining that North Dakota wouldn't supply you with a high paying job as if the State owes anybody anything! Some things in life you just have to work for yourself! It's just that when other people do work for it and achieve things, too many people resent it!
So that's my story and position. So please can the 'rich out of staters" BS. My blood pressure gets too high and my wife yells at me to calm down! No more posting on this from me.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Oh yes, one other rule - Don't shoot the wood ducks on my Habitat Hugger Built little lake. My wife says they are too beautiful to shoot, and you wouldn't want to face HER wrath! Ha!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

I hunt with an older gentleman who is very wealthy, he is generous and well mannered and down to earth. Most who meet him would never know the wealth he has. He could charter a plane, hire a guide or buy land and have someone manage it for his hunting pleasure.

Instead he prefers to come up in his 5 year old van, crawl into his 10 year old waders, toss out decoys that his dad used and do as most of us do and that is ask for permission to hunt.

Wealth can buy you land, buy you new guns and toys, but it cannot buy respect! What I see from Ryans posts is that respect is given on his part but not returned. HH your post degrading him is a classic example of that.

The lack of respect is probably why I dislike most commercial hunting operations. They do not respect the heritage of hunting, many times the game they pursue, even though they pretend to. Yes comments get made that are of a general nature and seem broad and encompassing, but the root of most of the problems is lack of respect.

Think I am wrong? Do a search and look at the topic of possession! Those seeking to circumvent the possession laws are right off the bat showing no respect to those whom they seek advice from. Soon words like entitlement or special treatment come flying. Tempers flare and the mess just gets worse.

Shooting of domesticated wild species is another example! The term of hunting and hunter to describe those who participate in them shows disrespect to hunters.

Your response to observations and experiences that many of us have from hunting in this state for more than 30 years is disrespected by saying it is not science. Junk science is still science, just not good science!

Do you get my point yet?


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## Bob Aronsohn (Mar 21, 2005)

Nobody is perfect, not even me, hee hee.

I have a good friend who goes to ND every year to hunt pheasants and he says he loves your state because of how friendly the people are in the country. He flies in from Maryland and spends a week to ten days hunting pheasants. He also goes back in may to shoot prairie dogs for a week or so. He is not a rich man but has a good retirement because he worked for GM for over 30 years. You would be hard pressed to find a nicer guy.

I lived in Chamberlain, SD back in the mid 1960's and found the folks that lived there to be very nice. I've lived in Kansas for the past 32 years and there are plenty of nice folks here as well. I sure like the winters down here better! Anyway, my point is that nice folks are where ya find them.

Bob A.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> The lack of respect is probably why I dislike most commercial hunting operations. They do not respect the heritage of hunting, many times the game they pursue, even though they pretend to. Yes comments get made that are of a general nature and seem broad and encompassing, but the root of most of the problems is lack of respect.
> 
> Think I am wrong?


Yes Ron I don't think your wrong I know your wrong.... Respect is something you earn, its not given, or bought. You accuse commercial hunting operations of having no respect for the heritage of hunting etc.etc. Yet Ronnie you know jack about the commercial operations in this state. Only thing you know is your experiences with Sheldon. To lump all outfitters in this state and class them the same as Sheldon shows your bias. By making a statement such as you have is as ignorant as someone saying "Fargo Hunters". Because there are a few does that make them all bad?????? My advice to you Ron is to go out and meet some of these "evil outfitters" and see for yourself how bad they are. Ron respect is something you earn remember that.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

G/O Sheldon is the poster child of an outlaw. He is not who I refer to in this. Over the past 10 years only a few G/O that I know and or know of there operations fill the bill of respecting heritage and the game they pursue. Hence why I did not say all disrespect the game.

Take last year when the guide set his paying customers up along the fence line next to a standing bean field to pass shoot birds coming into our spread! How about the guide who tried to bluff me out of a field I had permission to be in!!!!!! Would you like me to continue???????

Yes respect is earned, but most of us will extend respect to another until they do something to loose it!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way those two incidents where different operations and one in particular who touts himself for being a sportsmen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Take last year when the guide set his paying customers up along the fence line next to a standing bean field to pass shoot birds coming into our spread! How about the guide who tried to bluff me out of a field I had permission to be in!!!!!! Would you like me to continue???????


Yes I would Ron!!!!!!!!!!! And if any of this is true why did you not call the authorities?????????????? Again Ron you generalize and lump all outfitters in to one. Tell how many have you actually ever met????? I'm probably the only one and that was nothing more than nice to meet you.

Now I could list all the bad experiences I've had with people from Fargo. The difference between yours and mine are, mine were reported,license numbers taken down, fines issued. These guys profess to be sportsmen also.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Yes Rod, I get your point and I understand what you are saying.! I don't necessarily disagree with you, but how about a bit of respect for people who work their butts off and do well instead of the constant continuous "rich out of staters" or "rich city guys" I hear continuously, mainly on this website! I don't know why but you rarely hear it on FBO or some of the other outdoor websites....but that's beside the point.
I have NO respect for anyone parotting this sort of nonsense! I have absolute respect for the outdoors and have spent my life actively working both physically and economically for the outdoors in ND and elsewhere! There is not a single outdoor organization I don't belong to (DE, Delta, PF. RMEF, etc) and contribute a lot to and have of a lot of respect for you, even though I don't always agree 100% with you.
But every time I think about the RMEF phrase "pass it on" I read more whining drivel about "Rich" people taking over the entire hunting arena and a lot of resentment between the have's and have nots! 
Yet, the only people I've ever seen out in the summer months physically working putting in food plots and bettering the environment seem to be what so many consider "Rich!" The rest all seem to be out catching walleyes or playing golf but come fall they envy the guys that work their butt off putting in their food plots, habitat, etc. Irritating at best, infuriating for me. I'm tired of it!
Were all sportsmen like some I consistently see in websites, the "poor me, me, whiners" who consider hunting someone else's land a God Given Right instead of a Privelege, I wouldn't NEVER consider leaving either a bunch of money or my land to the public or any outdoor organization when I go to that great pheasant patch in the sky! And from reading some of the posts here, I get turned right off! And my blood pressure goes up!
So Rod, why don't you come on out and hunt here sometime this fall? I love showing off the place, and I'll apologise to NO ONE for it! I'm Damned proud of my 25 years of hard work and money infusion! I'll show you a good time (and some good dogs) 
But remember, MY rules apply, as outlined above, except for one more that I forgot... and I'm sure it doesn't apply to you.
Don't shoot up any of my 40 wood duck nests or 75 bluebird nests! This happens every fall when the responsible outdoorsmen take to the field! Those non hunters sure have a lot of guns, or presumably it's those awful "rich" Minnesotans that do it while they are throwing out their junk. Don't know why they haul all that stuff from Minnesota - deep freezes, dead Minnesota deer, old lumber, etc.??!!?? Some must even come out a week before the non resident seasons just to throw out junk, cause a lot of it starts during the resident only season. Dratted non residents!
So will I retract what I said about whiners and take back what you thought was "disrespect?" Hell, NO! NEVER! NOT EVER!
We'll discuss it further some night when I'm beating the crap out of you at the trap club!
I'll shut up now..................I promise


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

HH you might want to look at my name, part of showing and earning respect is to get someones name right!!!!!!!!! It can also keep you from making an *** of oneself when approaching someone on a subject that you think they are debating with you when in reality they may not even have seen this thread or post!!!!!!!!!!

Now G/O just what the heck was I suppose to call the authorities on? What they did is legal, immoral and unethical but legal!!!!!! Once again you do not get what I said!!!!!!

How about the group out of New Rockford driving around and around the section of land we where hunting trying to make sure the birds passed our field and moved on to where they had there people set up! Once again is it illegal to drive up and down a road with music playing very loud?

As I asked HH do you get what I am talking about? Hey I have never intentionally tried to disrupt somebodies hunt if they where legal. Should I have jumped in the truck and returned the favor by driving up and down the road to discourage geese from following a flight path?

G/O I did not out of respect for those in the field! See I could separate the act and understood they had nothing to do with the helpers activity!!!!!

I stuck around and confronted them on the way out of the field though, and made sure that the paying customers knew what type of people they where hiring!!!!!!!!

But this thread is about ducks and who owns them, the people own them which is clear!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

G/o,
Why is it always the Fargo guys.....you should see what these Guys from Edgeley did last year! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Sorry Ron! Sometimes I'm an idiot! Got you mixed up with another Gilmore, almost of the same name, one of the most level headed, conservation minded, nice guys I've ever met! 
So THAT explains your posts! Sorry bout that! 
The original question - who owns the ducks - EVERYBODY! Even those Rich Out Of Staters and those Rich City Guys, even the anti hunters for all that matters! EVERYBODY! 
Bye


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Ok, Ok, Ok........... If it will help you all out......you all can have my share of the ducks :beer: . Just leave the ditch parrots to me ! :thumb:


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ron, Lets me get this right now, and correct me if I'm wrong. Last year you had a guide set his clients up on a fence row to shoot the birds before they got to you. Then another time one lied to you and told you had permission and he didn't. Last but not least a guide drove around playing music loud to chase all the birds over to there clients. Man you talk about bad luck. What do you have a sign on your vehicle that says I'm Ron Gilmore and I hate guides?
Now if some of this would have happened to me by an outfitter I would have gotten his license number and Bruce Burkette would have gotten a call from me. Like I say Ron IF and I'll repeat this IF any of this is true you should have done something.

Ron maybe you should contact the game and fish dept. and find out the number of outfitters and guides in this state. Again you are talking about a couple isolated incidents versus how many guides in this state????? Ron I could write pages full about experiences I've had with people from Fargo from twice I've had a deer rifle pointed at me. That does not mean all people from Fargo are bad and inconsiderate. Quite the opposite the majority of the hunters from Fargo a very good people. Yes Ronnie there are a few from there like some outfitters that are not well behaved. I know that maybe hard for you to believe.

FH, I'm using Fargo only as an example. I'm just trying to show Ron that just becuase one guide does something we are all that way. Same as because I've had trouble with one person from Fargo they are all that way. I didn't mean to offend any of the good people of Fargo


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## roostman (Jan 20, 2006)

G/O I'm from the FM area and you didn't offend me, the Fargo guy's get blamed for alot in these Fourms, but if you hunt as long as I have and listen to the story's it's usually the locals that do most of the stuff that I would call unethical, they do not want anybody messing up there parade, it's our land and our ducks or whatever. Most guys from Fargo respect the land and the game they are hunting because they basically have to leave the FM area to hunt anything, they are not going to bite the hand that feeds them. Who own's the Duck's? We all own the right to hunt them, but we really don't own them. Take care and hunt safe and Ethical. 8)


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

G/o,
Just pulling your chain a little....I enjoyed talking to you yesterday over at Scheels....next time you're in town make sure to call. We can get some of the guys together for a burger and beers.

ps. I'll only bring Dan if you say it's ok. :lol:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

G/O First off as I said, nothing they did violated the law, or was provable in regards to the hunter harassment, because it is a he said/she said situation. Do not think for a minute that these where not reported, hence my knowledge of their actions while vile where not illegal!!!!!

I have said in the past that operations which like yours and others similar are not the issue. We all talk in general terms as I said. But over the last ten years I can say that my observation of most of the commercial operations is just as a stated!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ron, Again I would have contacted the game and fish. Especially with the one who said they had permission and tossed you off. He had better had a lease or a day lease or he would have been in violation. I will leave it as this and that is I think you are very unfair in your judgement of outfitters.For every bad one there are many, many good ones. Ever wonder why outfitters feel as they do?? When people have attitudes like yours we will never get along. It must be really sad to go through life with blinders on.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

G/O I, what I said is he tried to bluff me out of a field. See we had permission to be in that 1/2 section and he controlled access to the surrounding area. He wanted nobody in that field so he could run traffic on the land he controlled. Since the landowner was out of state and very hard to get in touch with. He had been told in no uncertain terms by the renter and the landowner not to try and attempt to hunt this ground. So when people like myself gained access his innuendo about making sure we where legal was just an attempt to get us to move on!!!!!

Bad attitude and bad behavior is not a law violation, harassment of us hunting was, but like I said before it becomes a he said/she said situation!

Did you read the letter that Terry Stienwand wrote? Tell me that if commercial hunting was best for the state that he would not be promoting it!!!!!!!!!!


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