# 17 HMR Coyote killer? yes or no



## rob1089

I bought a 17 hmr last fall, is it enough gun, with a well placed chest shot to kill a coyote??? What do you think?


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## gunattic

my experience is that anything the size of a beaver or larger is outta the HMR's caliber. It's a great bird, rabbit, squirrel, prairie dog, etc. gun. But the simple answer to your question though: yes, ....almost anything shot in the chest with almost anything will die.


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## mr.trooper

Eventualy.

but it may be miles away by then,


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## Militant_Tiger

Some people have taken them with a .17. It is just a little undersized to do the job well. If you are looking at a coyote gun in rimfire please go for the .22 magnum.


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## rob1089

I AM GOING TO BUY EITHER A .223 OR A 22-250. I WAS JUST WONDERING IF I COULD USE THE .17 UNTIL I GET A BIGGER WEAPON. I GUESS I'LL WAIT


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## wishiniwerefishin

You could use the .17, i use it and have not had a problem putting them down within 100 yards. I would get a bigger bore if you are able to, a 22-250 is a much better choice.


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## kase

personally, i think it's too small. i would recommend a bigger caliber.

kase


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## Brad.T

Go Bigger.


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## Dragon_1198

I rolled a coyote with one shot. I also got a head shot. It is sort of hard to do but it can be done.


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## the_rookie

.50 cal should be alright for around 10 yards :lol: It all depends on where your hunting if you want a good under 100 yards gun 22 mag is calling your name but if u want something for longer ranges i suggest a 25mm cannon :wink: nah im jj maybe a 223 woudl be good


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## crittergetter

.17 hmr,..well since you already have one,
yes you can kill a coyote, just like you can kill a 
person with a bb gun with proper placement,
right between the eyes at 50 to 75 yards and you should be 
fine, beyond that, you have to realize you only have 17-25 grains
flying at him with a lead spreading point, not much penetration especially
for a coyote, also a well placed lung shot, but you better be willing to track him cause he probably won't fall for another 100 yards,
when you're able to get that next level a 22-250 would be a proper choice,
has a better trajectory out to 200yrds than a 223.


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## Gohon

The heaviest load for the 17HMR is a 20 grain XTP. Hit just right it might squeeze past a rib into the heart or lungs if at short range and you won't have to track real far. A brain shot or spine should drop one at close range if the shot can be made. You will hear some talk about the dog they shot with the HMR. What you won't hear is the many more who wounded one only to let it craw off some place and die a horrible death. The .17HMR is not a coyote round. If you insist on using a rimfire, go with the 22 mag and keep the shots within 70 yards. If you want to do it right, start with the .223 and go up from there. Probable the 22-250 is the best out there for that kind of work but the .223 will work just fine as will the 22 Hornet at close range.

As mentioned you already have a .17HMR so you are probable going to be tempted to try it. My personal opinion is don't.


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## Brad.T

This thread is never going to die will it? Its just going to keep getting brought up to the top so that we can keep arguing and arguing and arguing and on and on and on and on.
Brad


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## crittergetter

the way i see it, there are going to be those that believe every positive column that is written on the .17hmr and ignore the side bar notations, so as more
experienced and or knowledgeable hunters, i think we owe it to these guys to educate them so they learn to balance the cons/pro before 
going out on the field.

yeah, but it would be nice to see this thread come to an end, 
it's too bad we can't group .17hmr owners and .22 mag/above
owners on a coyote showdown,..........or could we?......


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## Gohon

> This thread is never going to die will it? Its just going to keep getting brought up to the top so that we can keep arguing and arguing and arguing and on and on and on and on. Brad


Well, if different people stating different opinions to a question asked by a poster is nothing more than arguing to you, why bother to have the board in the first place. I see someone asking a question that just got their first gun in a particular caliber and a lot of different people offering their opinion on the subject. It's a informative subject so why worry about it popping to the top every once in awhile. I've got a couple 17HMR, couple 22Mags, two .223, and many more rifles. I enjoy talking about the different applications of each and sharing my opinions as well as reading others opinions......


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## the_rookie

22 mag all the way the way i see it there going almost the same speed ... the 22 mag has a 45 grain going at 1900 fps and a 17hmr has got a 20 grain going at around 2400 fps u do the math


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## Brad.T

Gohon 
I'm not saying that a good discussion is bad, but with this topic on every board on the internet it's the same two sides going over the same points over and over again. I think it has gotten to the point that it's not even a educational discussion anymore its more of a peeing contest that no one ever quits so no one ever knows who wins.


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## crittergetter

come on y'all let's get back to the pissing contest,
after all, without opinions and discussions, no information
would be traded,

what kinda forum would this be with the same opinions over, and over,
and over, and so on and what not.


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## leemckinney1154

Anyone know where I can get ballistics for the 17HMR?


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## Drew Willemsen

i would shoot a .223 or a .22-250 for Coyotes my .02


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## bl00dtrail

leemckinney1154 said:


> Anyone know where I can get ballistics for the 17HMR?


http://www.remington.com/ammo/rimfire/p ... ballistics

p.s. I use a .243 on coyotes so you can guess my stance on this topic.

uke: .17HMR

didn't you guys know that "HMR" stands for "hardly meets requirements"??


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## the_rookie

HMR "hardly meets requirements"

so true


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## coyote fever

knocked down my first coyote with the 17 hmr dropped like a rock. I used the hmr with the plastic tip. :sniper: it is equiped with a 3x9 simmons and a bi-pod. also ravages squirrels.


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## KillDaWabbits

Eheh. If you are worried about penetration with the 17 HMR, get the 17 HRM hp. it has better penetration, but with less spread.. which i found wierd. hp usually spreads great. but thanks to the polymer tip on the HMR varmint, you get a nice little explosion. I went out a little while ago with a guy who dropped a coyote easy using varmint shots. Not even close to "hardly meets requirements," actually. Unless the coyotes around where you live are bigger than mine.. I live in Utah, where they weigh "38 pounds soaking wet..." that's a quote I guess.


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## Gohon

KillDaWabbits said:


> Eheh. If you are worried about penetration with the 17 HMR, get the 17 HRM hp. it has better penetration, but with less spread.. which i found wierd. hp usually spreads great. but thanks to the polymer tip on the HMR varmint, you get a nice little explosion. I went out a little while ago with a guy who dropped a coyote easy using varmint shots. Not even close to "hardly meets requirements," actually. Unless the coyotes around where you live are bigger than mine.. I live in Utah, where they weigh "38 pounds soaking wet..." that's a quote I guess.


I own 2 HMR's............. have been shooting them since they first appeared on the market. Have put probable well over 3,000 rounds down the barrel of these two guns. All of the HMR rounds, 17 VMAX, 17 HP and 20 XTP are varmint rounds and all are designed for varmints in the 15 pound and below category. Just because your friend as well as a few others got lucky and took a coyote with one does not make it a coyote round. Far more coyotes are wounded and run off into the brush than are killed using the 17HMR. If you insist on using a rimfire cartridge on coyotes at least use a 22 magnum which still hardly meets requirements and keep the shots under 75 yards.


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## zogman

> All of the HMR rounds, 17 VMAX, 17 HP and 20 XTP are varmint rounds and all are designed for varmints in the 15 pound and below category. Just because your friend as well as a few others got lucky and took a coyote with one does not make it a coyote round. Far more coyotes are wounded and run off into the brush than are killed using the 17HMR. If you insist on using a rimfire cartridge on coyotes at least use a 22 magnum which still hardly meets requirements and keep the shots under 75 yards.


I also own a 17 and what you said Gohon makes the most sense of any thing I've seen written about coyotes and the 17. :withstupid: :sniper: :withstupid: :sniper: 
I'll use my 223 for the wilie one :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


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## CritterKiller

.17 HMR for coyotes is plenty if your skills are up to the task ! .50 cal. won't kill a coyote if you don't hit him ! For those suggesting that a .22 mag would be a better choice than the HMR, doesn't understand the ballistic coefficients of the two calibers. HMR rounds are faster and more frangible making them ideal for coyotes. WHEN THE SHOT IS PLACED RIGHT ! And for those sounding off about poor lil' coyotes running off wounded and dying a horrible death !? SO WHAT ! They are livestock killers, deer killers, pet killers, and occasionally people killers ! I have personally spine shot coyotes just to watch them suffer !!!! Put in your time on the range, and I promise you will kill coyotes with the HMR ! I have logged over 300 coyote kills in the past 10 years for livestock owners in my area.

:strapped:


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## Brad.T

That lack of respect for the animals that you hunt shows me exactly what kind of hunter you are. You say SO WHAT to coyotes i say SO WHAT to deer. If you have a livestock problem that is one thing but if your out tring to protect deer that argument won't hold water with me there is way too many deer right now that is why we all get to pay such high car insurance.

Personally if you do actually shoot coyotes in the spine on purpose i would be first to testify that you should have all your hunting rights revoked :eyeroll:


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## 280IM

I agree with you Brad that SO WHAT stuff is why people cann't get permission to hunt in a lot of places as the land owner finds wounded animals running around no matter whay they he gets upset use a cal. that will do the job even if it is not a perfect shot as some of us don't shoot the perfect shot that most of the people do on the forum here


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## CritterKiller

I will agree 100% that there are too many deer ! ( I kill those too ! ) But deer don't attack and maul small children in their quest for food. The population of coyotes nationwide more than doubles that of deer. Coyotes can produce a litter of pups, 1 deer produces 2 at best and that's rare. Coyotes are far wiser, more wary, and mostly lurk at night in search of a newborn calf, or fawn which cannot yet even stand. They raid chicken houses and annhialate the farmers livelyhood. So if you eat chicken or beef, thank your local coyote hunters for making an effort to keep this overwhelming problem in check. They attack and kill pets ! Every animal which roams the Earth is here for a reason and it is up to us to keep the population in check. The largest focus for me is that if even 1 human is mauled or a life is lost to a predator attack, then there is an urgent need to reduce the population. There are much more inhumane ways to do this other than hunting ! Do the research and you'll see. i.e. M44 Cyanide spray !! For the record, no wildlife management officials I have ever met would shed a tear if you shot, paralyzed, and slit the throat of a coyote, because in their job they understand the need for far more coyotes to be killed and would do the same if the opportunity arose ! This problem is far more serious than car insurance ! Cars can be replaced, humans cannot !! The issue of wounded animals running around would anger most farmers, except those losing livelyhood to those animals attacks, too which the farmer will be delighted to see him suffer ! Go here to understand coyote hunting ! http://www.varmintal.com/attac.htm

:sniper:


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## CritterKiller

By the way Brad. In your state people are far more in tune with the need to eliminate coyotes. In Fiscal year 2003 North Dakota eliminated 2,688 !! Here in Kentucky, where I live 5 were eliminated. :eyeroll: Eliminated by all means. Trapping, shooting, M44, etc. And as for the deer/vehicle collisions. I believe that is slightly more a problem for us than you ! As of July 2004 Ky. had 4,145,922 deer. North Dakota had 634,366. Also this explains why coyotes can thrive here, no lack of predation (deer).

:sniper:


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## Brad.T

Actually if you talk to your local ADC man or actually help him do some work and do the research you would know that M44 guns are actually very humane the coyote only makes it about 20 feet that is why they are implemented over 1080 compoound which was a very gruesome death.

I can bring up articles about all wildlife injuring people, deer, bear, elk, moose, hell even fish (jumping carp) i understand that coyotes have injured people and do think that they need to be controlled but maming them and letting them run is not controlling them it's just plain stupid.

I do quite a bit of control work a few are even sheep ranchers and they have lost a lot of sheep but they still don't believe in taking the measures that you are implying. In fact i think that your giving ranchers a bad name by saying that. They just want them controlled. If you took care of the coyotes in a clean quick manner and handled yourself more like a professional you would probaly get more calls for control work.

Until then please keep from talking to the public about coyote hunting so they don't judge us all by your coments.

P.S don't believe everything that "Varmint Al" posts on his site!


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## 280IM

I have hunted and trapped coyotes for 35 years taken many out of leg hold traps live never been attacted by one or mauled I never brag about the number I have taken over the years and have went to great lenghts never leave a cripple I have seen them take a lamb more than once never have seen one take a baby calf that was alive with its mother I have seen them eat the after birth eat on a calf that has died but never attack a calf on its mother I have worked with more than one goverment trapper in more than one state ask them how a coyote works Saying there are human attacks is one of the dumbs storys I have heard yet There are good ADC people then there are those who watch to much TV and dream up numbers and make dumb remarks of letting cripples go thinking it is OK only shows there IQ Dont give the good ADC people a bad name with this BS


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## Fallguy

CritterKiller,

You SPINE coyotes on purpose? I don't believe you are that good of a shot. Sounds a little farfetched.


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## 280IM

There are much better words than farfechted If BS was snow this guy would be a blizzered By the way have you ever shot a 17hmr in a 20 mph cross wind at the range or when you are killing 300 coyotes it has tends to drift a little On a perfect day at 50 to 75 yards a good German made air rifle will kill a coyote Do you spine them on the run or are they standing?


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## Fallguy

I would guess most of the spined coyotes are shot from the standing position. The yotes are probably sprinting all out down a hillside. Oh, and I bet he is looking right into the sun at sunup also so his scope is hard to see through. At least that is how I would tell it if I were pulling it out of MY ***!


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## Brad.T

Critter killer 
Your numbers are real impressive how long did you spend googleing to put them up here like you actually keep track? The one thing you forgot to mention is that the state of ND has a population at around 650,000 compared to how many people in KY? i would guess that if you look at your numbers we have a higher per capita deer collison than you guys. Numbers like those statisics are good for one thing..... impressing people that don't have clue about what your talking about.


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## Gohon

Well........... first you said....



> I have logged over 300 coyote kills in the past 10 years for livestock owners in my area


Then you said......



> Here in Kentucky, where I live 5 were eliminated. Eliminated by all means. Trapping, shooting, M44, etc


Hmmm........... having a little trouble keeping your story straight are you... :lol:


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## 280IM

I think this guy has killed a few sparrows with his Daisy Red Rider over the last 10 years and my have crippled a few The rest is BS


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## Fallguy

If you "shoot your eye out" with your Red Rider BB Gun, do you think you could mistake a spine-shot collie or poodle for a spine-shot coyote? That would make the story much more credible.


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## CritterKiller

Fair enough. Not all areas of the country are the same. I thought this was a reputable forum where FACTUAL experience could be shared. Over the past ten years, I have not, but once had a livestock farmer deny me rights to hunt coyotes on their land for the purpose of protecting their livestock. Not one of which seemed to care what I did with them or how I killed them. I'm sure since none of you care to here my experiences (whether you agree with them or not), you won't care to here this either. But because I am proud of my 22 years of service to the United States Navy. I am an extremely proficient marksman as well as a competetive shooter. The knowledge I have of the effects wind, rain, snow, heat, cold, humidity, dew point have on a bullet in flight are more than sufficient. So yes, I know what wind does to a bullet in flight and I know how to calculate and compensate for such alterations. I know several game wardens with the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife. And all feel the same way about coyotes HERE !! I never once pretended to know how your State Departments operate. I only speak for the concensus here. The number of coyotes killed stats as well as all the rest are obviously subject to fault and miscalculations. The number only reflects the ones reported to or witnessed by those responsible for gathering and posting the data. When I took credit for 300+ kills over 10 years, I never said all in the state of Kentucky. So think before you flat out call me a liar, as I have not insulted or disrespected anyone on this forum. I will though apologize for upsetting so many, as this was not my intent. If you choose not to believe my words, that is certainly your right. But you will never hear me discounting someone elses opinions or stories on this forum. Simply because I don't know you, your history, what the area you live and hunt in is like or what your views might be. My goal here is not to judge you, only to share with you. If anyone of you still has the kind of hatered towards me that you have already expressed, let me know and I will no longer post here.

V/R

BMCM King (Ret.) a.k.a. CritterKiller

:sniper:


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## 280IM

I wish to enlighten you anti-gun people anti-hunting people anti-trapping people watch and follow these forums so when you make dumb statments that you intentionally make an animal suffer and so what you give these peolpe things to talk about there are some of us that value our rights to hunt and trap When you get a big mouth truth stretching person making statements that are farfetched it only causes the true sportsman problems As far as being one of the worlds greatest shots there a several people on this forum that have trophies on the wall both from the service and other shooting events and know better with a lot of your statments
30 coyotes a year over 10 years causes a person who hunt yotes seriously to choke there a people on this forum that attend contest all over the country and compete they know what BS is when they hear it I would like the phone numbers of the Kentucky Game Wardens that don't care if you intentionally cripple a coyote just so it dies a pain full death I would really like to hear what they have to say please contact me on my message board I what to speak with them The forum is for real sportsman and for the truth real sportsman kill cleanly humanly and resondably Grow up


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## Brad.T

This post is starting to go now where guys lets just drop it and move on to another subject. It started about a caliber being large enough and has now gone to where to shoot a coyote ethically, how many deer are hit by cars and a whole lot of other stuff that none of us are going to back down on.

Lets just move on and get ready for the fur season.


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## CritterKiller

I'm all for that Brad. I made my apologies and statements. This is all I can do.

Sincerely,
CritterKiller

:sniper:


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## rob1089

Here is some info I read in an article in PREDATOR HUNTING MAGAZINE "Picking a Predator Rifle"...... .17 Remington- "When this 4,000 ft per second scorcher was introtuced 30 years ago, it was lauded as being able to tackle any animal alive. Naysayers claimed it would burn out a barrel after a few hundered shots. Neither extrem is true. I've been shooting a .17 regulary for more than eight years, and it is one of the best coyote calibers I've ever used. Pick the right shot and keep it under 200 yards. You'll have a pelt on the stretcher-- usually with only one tiny hole.--- (Mike Schoby is a seasoned predator hunter from Chappell, Neb.)

I guess you can get all kinds of different opinions on this subect.


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## 280IM

I know Mike he can call yotes better than the average and shot well above the average picks his shots and is sure of clean kill Does a lot of hunting in windy country again it is what the person can handle and if it is a iffy shot don't take it There is nothing wrong with a 17 in the right hands and in the hands of a shooter that knows it limits as Clint Eastwood said you have to know your limitations


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## Gohon

> Here is some info I read in an article in PREDATOR HUNTING MAGAZINE "Picking a Predator Rifle"...... .17 Remington


Rob you're comparing apples to oranges. The .17 Remington and the .17HMR are two different breeds. One is a center fire and one is a Rim Fire. One travels at 4,000 plus fps and the other at a little over 2,500 fps. The .17 Remington has six different bullet weights from 15 to 37 grains. The .17 HMR has only two, the 17 and 20 grain. The .17HMR is the one this thread is directed at as you well know since you are the OP....... I don't think anyone is going to argue the .17 Remington is not suitable for coyotes.


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## 280IM

Rob there has been a lot of 17 wildcats through the years non are what you would really call a good coyote all round gun they have a place in the hands of a man that can place the shot at a short range but in my experiance a 17 is just to small for coyote size animal Its like using a 22 cal on an elk they just are not large enough Gohon is right there is a world of difference between a 17 Rem and a HMR two comlpetely different rounds


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## Brad.T

A 17 rem is a great coyote gun and a big difference from the 17HMR


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## 280IM

Brad What do use in the open country on coyotes? 280


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## Brad.T

Winchester Model 70 Featerweight 22-250 factory shells


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## 280IM

That is an excellant choice When I lived up North in Western Ne and Wy I used my 220 swift most of the time but on real windy days I also used a 250-3000 which is a very good cal not good on fur but the 220 wasn't good on the fur either Both are built on per war custom Mauser action
Here in Mo with 150 yards being a long shot I use a A-bolt in a 22 Hornet
I also hve a 22-250 built on a Sako action I like really well I have had several 17 wildcats but that was when I was out west and they just wouldn't do the job in the wind and the wind blow everyday I reload for everything and those 17's are not fun to reload A few years back I did some ADC work for a sheep producer in Nevada the wind blow a lot the swift and the 250-3000 did a great job But the 22-250 is hard to bet I have yet to try a 223 but just might this winter


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## Brad.T

You better have a good excuse for leaving gods country to the Ozarks!


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## 280IM

I will spend a month up there I hope Forgot I have a 222 also another good yote gun 280


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## texassniper

Im from texas so the pelts arn't worth anything coyotes are more or less considered useless. People hunt coyote to keep them off of calves. I have a .17 HMR and have shot several yote's with it 3 out of 4 have diid on spot and the other was never found. all that matters was that he got out of the cattle so no big lose.


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## hdjjc

gunattic said:


> my experience is that anything the size of a beaver or larger is outta the HMR's caliber. It's a great bird, rabbit, squirrel, prairie dog, etc. gun. But the simple answer to your question though: yes, ....almost anything shot in the chest with almost anything will die.


at 150 yds or less, yes


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## hdjjc

rob1089 said:


> I AM GOING TO BUY EITHER A .223 OR A 22-250. I WAS JUST WONDERING IF I COULD USE THE .17 UNTIL I GET A BIGGER WEAPON. I GUESS I'LL WAIT


if your talking about the HMR yaaa out to 100yds. :sniper:


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## songdog34

I just posted a similar thread. I had two yotes run off after popping them with my .17, and one was only about 30 yards away! I, like you, am in the market for a larger caliber gun. The .17 is great fun, but not much of a coyote gun.


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## RedRabitt

Critter Killer please leave the killing up to the people who know how to shoot and use a .17 hmr on coyotes. Your giving us a bad name......


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## RedRabitt

Just kidding Critter more power to you.... last time I looked out the door I could swear I saw a free country.....


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## mossy512

.17 this .17 that I'll stick to my .22-250. :sniper: :sniper: :beer:


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## price403

Here in WV we aren't allowed to hunt at night with anything bigger than a 22 rimfire or a shotgun with 4 shot. I have shot and wounded coyotes with those polymer tipped bullets, but I've never had one go more than 50 yards after being shot with the 20 grain hollow point from CCI. I've shot them out to 150+ yards on a calm night. If you want to see the difference try setting a couple of empty pop cans out at 100 yards and shoot one with a balistic tip and one with a hollow point. You'll see why the coyotes aren't being killed by the balistic tips. No penetration due to the balistic tip bullet exploding on impact. Blows an empty can to pieces.


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## RedRabitt

take a good look at those 20 grain hollow points thery'er not really hollow points the lead goes clear to the top.... "Yeehoo!!"Thats what Im talkin about!!!"


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## RedRabitt

Now all they have to do is make an X bullet for the .17 hmr, so it will cut all the way across the A-orta the B-orta and the C-orta and everything in between....


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## Remington 7400

> Unless the coyotes around where you live are bigger than mine.. I live in Utah, where they weigh "38 pounds soaking wet..." that's a quote I guess.


The coyotes here in KY will go anywhere from 60 to 80 pounds dry! I have actually weighed a few that went closer to 90, big dogs, reminded me of wolves.

Yes the .17 HMR will kill coyotes if you take head shots and keep them under 50 yards. CCI has came out with a 20 grain FMJ load, with these you could probably take head shots out to 100, but I haven't tried yet. All of that being said, I'm sticking to my .22-250 and .243. But if a shot presents itself within reasonable range, I will take it no matter if I'm carrying a .17 or a .30-06. I'll just aim for the head/neck area with the lighter rounds.

I will agree with CritterKiller, every warden I have ever talked to in KY wanted coyotes dead. One in particular offered to write me a waiver that would allow me to carry a handgun while bow hunting, for the sole purpose of self defense against coyotes. I'll agree, the Kentucky Department of Fish & Wildlife dosen't care about coyotes, they want rid of them.

:sniper:


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## RedRabitt

Remington 7400 are you sure they came out with a 20 gr FULL METAL JACKET for the .17 hmr I haven't seen them yet tell me more. I've been wanting them to do that since thay came out with that cartirdge...


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## Gohon

From CCI Home Page.............

.17 HMR 20-Grain FMJ

No one offers more 17-caliber choices than the leader in rimfire ammunition. That's why CCI® is introducing yet another load for the .17 HMR-a 20-grain Full Metal Jacket (FMJ) option for target shooters, small game and varmint hunters. This industry-leading 5th addition to the CCI .17 HMR line provides sub-inch accuracy and flat trajectory. Shooters will have no problem punching out the center of any target. And the FMJ bullet will punch right through game to retain edible meat and protect valuable hides.

FEATURES & BENEFITS
• 20-Grain Full Metal Jacket (FMJ)
• Muzzle Velocity of 2,375 fps
• Sub-inch accuracy and flat trajectory for easier hits at long range
• *FMJ does not expand*, keeping game edible and hides in tact

Sounds like a target and squirrel round more than anything else. At least the 20 grain CCI TNT which is a minature Hornady XTP will expand to some degree.


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## mossy512

Remington 7400
Where are you in KY, I down here around the Richmond Area. I'm new to coyote but have been hunting for over 20 yrs. I'm always open to more info and tips from anyone willing to share. P.M. me and we can talk more. :sniper: :beer:


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## RedRabitt

hey thanks! a bundle Gohan. I thought I saw some on the shelf at the local gun barn, but thought they were the same old stuff different package, now alls they have to do is make one of those .17 bullets open up with razor petals like the Barnes tripple shock or something....


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## SONGDOG187

:evil:

I fully admit I have only killed one coyote with my muzzleloader at about 20 yds. It was a perfect lung shot and guess what, it penetrated it on both sides! IThis was a nice 45 lb. Indiana deer fed,mature, worn and cracked tooth male. He is at the taxidermist as we speak getting the finishing touches (including new teeth)! I have been trying to call in more coyotes ever since. This last deer season three more coyotes were taken with muzzleloaders although sadly not by me. Despite my new confidence in the .50 muzzleloader caliber as a coyote slaying round, I can't wait to shoot a coyote with my . 17 HMR, my .22 WRF, my .22 Hornet, my .223, my .243 and also my 3-1/2" 12 ga. 11-87. Once I have all of those feathers in my cap I just may try and take it to the next level and use a .22 LR, a .17 Mach 2 and my bows. The choice of firearm/bow/spear is the responisbility and privilege of the shooter/archer/thrower. I won't shoot an animal unless I am confident in the tool and my skills at using the tool. I respect and applaud everyone here who has contributed to improving my understanding of the issues both ballistically and biologically concerning the use of a .17 HMR. That, I think is why most of us read and contribute to these things which is to improve our understanding and confidence in the issue we are looking into. Now to make my controversial statement - If a coyote really does killl a hunter who made a poor shot, I think the coyote has every right to! Point 1)If you really can't fend off a 50 lb. dog with a buttstroke, kick or knife you probably had it coming to you anyway!!! Point 2) However many million coyotes are out there, there are billions of us humans to take that poor idiots place. Also, _*every*_ animal should be taken cleanly and humanely. If it kicks or twitches a little because you made a well placed head shot, there is nothing wrong with taking satisfaction in that. I am pretty sure it's scrambled little brains are feelign a thing! Happy Hunting!


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## RedRabitt

SONGDOG187,

I don't know if Id push my luck with cartidges that dont have the ample power such as 22LR, 17 MACH2, but "to each his own" a person can do as they please. I certainly hope you possess the skill and knowledge to pull it off humanely as possible, as you might know the margin for error, as the caliber gets smaller and the amount of speed decreases the killing power diminishes.

I hope I have not missled anyone into beliving that the 17HMR is a good choice, however I stand my ground in certain uses for coyotes. I do recognize what the people here are trying to stress and that is "ethics"

Ive have done experiments with modling clay as medium and find its use valid enough to get an understanding of what the bullets are doing from one type to another and in my book the .17HMR barely qualifies with specific bullets and there are those plastic tip variety that were designed with ballistic coeficient in mind those are nothing but hollow points with a tip. If they were a little heavier and bonded I wouldnt have a problem with them, they just dont have the penetration to stop coyotes consistantly.

Some may suggest that the use of modling clay as a ballisics lab may be childs play, but you will be surprised to see what the bullets actually do when they meet a constant dense material and reveal not only the bullet or fragments but the channel and shock cavity when cut open with a fine wire.


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## mr.trooper

the_rookie said:


> HMR "hardly meets requirements"
> 
> so true


For Coyotes, Yea.

Why don't people want to get center fires? I'm a purist though. I think the whole idea of the .17 rimfire is silly. If you need more power than a 22lr, then you should be using a centerfire. What can 17HMR do that a .223 Varmint load can't do better for cheaper? I realize that the developers are just trying to fill a niche. The problem is that the 22 magnum already had that SMALL niche filled. Yea, they shoot flatter, but they don't really hit any harder. Just learn the trajectory of your round! You don't even have to memorize it; just look up the B.C and the muzzle velocity and plug the numbers into any one of the free trajectory calculators on the web. Print out the results, fold them up, and keep them in your pocket when your out hunting.

OK, I'm done ranting.


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## RedRabitt

mr. trooper,

Dont assume that we all dont have center fires, and that we dont know of their potential.... just answer the Q.

For the record Ive had coyotes run off from being hit solid from a 223 ran off to suffer an agonizing death and this evening I pumped a coyote four times at 50yrds to get it to die with a 17 remington the first bullet vacumed its lungs out that sucker still wanted to live.

Now you can make all the fuss you want about the 17 HMR we all know that it has the potential to wound, but for the record it will kill a coyote dead in its tracks if done properly.


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## Cleankill47

The fact is, guys, that most of the time, no matter what caliber you use, you will eventually have an animal run off after being hit, whether it be squirrel, rabbit, fox, coyote, hog, deer, elk, or moose; and the animal is usually even well hit, but just keeps on going. I've had heartshot squirrels run off for about five minutes and suddenly drop dead and fall out of their tree. There is no reason to believe that this type of thing won't happen with a larger animal that is just as determined, no matter what you happen to be shooting with that day. If it's legal to take coyotes with a .17, and if the person asking the question wants to give it a shot, then just let 'em.

But, Rob1089, be sure to use bullets that will penetrate without shattering when you use that caliber. The CCI FMJ sounds like a good idea, especially if you go for head shots. There is no reason that you shouldn't use the best ammo you can if you are going to use such a small caliber for 'yotes, so pick a box and go. Let us know how you do, as I am just as ready to hear how that caliber performs with you as I am to hear how many turkeys everyone takes this coming season. How you do will tell you if you should wait until you get your new gun, or if it's all right to keep poppin' 'em with the .17.

Things like this are the reason forums like this exist in the first place.

Good luck.

:sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


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## jerry hunsley

rob1089 said:


> I bought a 17 hmr last fall, is it enough gun, with a well placed chest shot to kill a coyote??? What do you think?


 My advice, don't use it on coyotes!! You might get by shooting fox at a 100yds. Coyotes are tough critters and you will have more grief than luck! You want a gun that reaches out to 300 yds. or more. Get a .243, 22-250 or .223. Get some nock down power. True, you can kill a coyote with a good chest shot. When I started hunting coyotes, i used a 22 Stevens and shot a lot of coyotes, but a lot of coyotes got away also. Save yourself some grief.


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## Sawyerbob

How many more times is this subject going to be hashed out. Do a little searching first. I think this very question has been posted at least two times before.


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## Gohon

> How many more times is this subject going to be hashed out


Nothing is ever hashed out on a forum. If a subject is only allowed to be talked about once, ore even twice then after six months there would be nothing left to discuss and the forum would shut down. Different opinions with different views on an old subject makes for a new subject. Just skip over it if you don't want to read it.


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## jace belcher

I think the .17 is fine as long as you place it right. I wouldnt try shooting him in the head especially when its over 75 yards. Just put it right up under his jaws near the throat, even if hes facing u. Or you could put it bout an inch behind his shoulder. Its softer there then it is in the plate of the shoulder. The bullet will penetrate more but if you want a gun that will do the trick up to 150 yards without having to place it, i suggest the 223 over any other gun.


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## RedRabitt

If you've called one in for a head on shot and you have the patients to wait it will turn broad side for you sooner or later, which a double lung or heart shot may present itself better than a head on shot will. I personally would only use the full metal jackets on a head shot and the 20 XTPs will be better on the broad side lung or heart.


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## coyotekilla

.17 hmr is a great round for coyote from 0-100yds, here in minnesota thats all i need with our dense forest and small clearings covering most of the state, and if you cant get a coyote in within a 100yds you need to work on your calling. i live north of the metro area of st. paul and minneapolis, and centerfires arnt allowed in this part of the state. why should i drive all the way up north to use a centerfire when a 17 will do a fantastic job.I shoot a marlin 917vs with a bushnell trolphy 3x9x40 scope. At a 100yds i can average 1 inch groups. as long as the wind is less than 15 mph, im taking the 17 with me, just got to practice and know where to hold, but i cant tell the difference between 17 and 22 mag in windy conditions. yes, the 17 was designed for small game animals 15lbs or less, but as it turns out the 17 is too destructive on small game and just blows them too pieces!!! its actually a better gun for fox and coyote, with either the 17 or 20 grain bullet any shot to head, neck, or vital organs within 100yds is going to get wilie coyote to drop in his tracks!! considering that it is one of the most acurrate rounds i have ever shot you cant go wrong. 22 mag is not as acurrate and doesnt have the speed and is just not as explosive and doesnt expand like the 17 but is still a great round also(and cheaper) but just not as hot. has slightly more energy 312ft-lbs compared to 245ftlbs, but has a muzzle volicty of 1875. the 22lr stingers are like 1645 muzzle volocity. the 17 cooks at 2550 offering more penatration and rapid expantion, and bucks the wind about the same, but is way more acurrate. i think people need to stop being such cry babies about its not going to kill the varmint quick enough. the only thing worst than people who hate killing is hunters that hate killing, i love to see a coyote with a hole in the neck and blood leaking out onto the ground, that just gets my [email protected]#$ hard. and the 17 really gets me aroused. most of the time i get to marvel over an exit wound if i get him in the neck/throat. try a 17 on a coyote. if he found your dead body in the woods and he was hungry i think he would try his fangs on you, and i would put my 17 againt his k-9s any day. 8)


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## Fallguy

> i love to see a coyote with a hole in the neck and blood leaking out onto the ground, that just gets my [email protected]#$ hard. and the 17 really gets me aroused.


You've got some issues coyotekilla. Don't turn your back while hunting with this guy. And please be sure that if you drop your calls don't bend over to pick them up!


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## Militant_Tiger

troll.


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## kir_kenix

First off, I just want to say hello to everyone as I am new to this forum. I live in wide open Central Nebraska, but have lived heavily wooded Western Michigan as well, and there is nothing I enjoy more then hunting. My favorite prey is coyotes of course, and I have quite a bit of experience with shooting them in all sorts of enviroments and with several different calibres. 
Everyone here seems to be heavily debating the use of the 17 on coyotes and I figured I would put in my 2 cents. I own a savage and have taken 16 coyotes with it, and lost 2 (both of which were shot at my first time out with the gun, before investing in 20 gr bullets). After my first unsuccesful trip out I put the 17 (took all body shots, my second mistake) away and discarded it as too small to use on the preditors. For the next 6 mths or so I continued to use my .223 and had no further problems.
Then my brother and I were talking (he still lives in western Michigan) and he was telling me how many coyotes they had been shooting on the farm with his new Marlin 17. I told him my experinces with the round and we argued for a while about it. Later that month he came down to visit for a few weeks and we decided to go out. He gave me some tips on ammo selection and we had a great time, taking a coupla mangy, hairless muts out of this world. 
Since then I use my 17 fairly regularly, for shots under 150 yrds (preferrably head shots) and have not lost a yote since. We usually get a few guys to go out together and we pretty much take a pretty wide variety of calibres with us so we can all have fun and all shoot at different ranges. I still love my .223 for long shots, but I think the 17 is superior to the .22 mag (still one of my personal favorite varmit rounds) at sub 150 shots.
Well, I doubt this is going to change anybody's opinnion on the 17, but I must say that I love it. Some say it is underpowered, but I think its all about where you put the bullet. I would never say that this is the perfect gun for shooting coyotes, as there could never be a "perfect" round/caliber, but it suits me and many other avid coyote hunters just fine here in nebraska.

schram out


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## coyotekilla

was out today for coyotes with my 17. coyotes really piss me off because they are almost 100% nocturnal around these parts(minnesota). i only see them just as the sun gets up or when it sets. i here ,em but i cant see em, 1 hour after sunset its like a ghost forest. anyone have any tips on getting them to show themselves. i cant hunt with artifical lights here. i already bait them with meat, and i use a rabbit call. i am very well hidden and always down wind. i just cant find any trace of them during the day, and i want to get get one of those [email protected][email protected]!!!!!!


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## Cleankill47

Coyotekilla,

Try only baiting during the day, and removing the bait at night. That way, they may associate daytime with food, and might show themselves more willingly.

Also, they _will_ circle to get downwind of your setup, so they _will_ smell you if you're not looking in the right places, and make sure you are scent-locked; as little scent as possible. And don't touch any part of your bait with your bare skin, don't even breathe on it directly, or they'l pick up on you.

Good Luck

:sniper:


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## coyoteman11591

you can never really tell w/coyotes I shot 1 three times all of them were good shots 2 in the vitals and 1 in the head the coyote kept running till I hit it in the head o I forgot I was shooting at him w/a 22-250.
:sniper:


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## Gutshot Art

New user, and I appreciate (at least most) of the opinions offered on this topic. I don't have an opinion on the 17 HMR, other than they're fun to shoot at prairie dogs. I've only ever killed one coyote, and that was when walking a friend's trapline when he was on vacation.

But my question is this - what are the best options for hunting coyotes where centerfires can't be used? I live in SE Wisconsin, and most of this state is shotgun only. Pity, because my .270 would be a lot of fun for this.

I am willing to live with limitations in terms of range, or shot placement, since I can't imagine that shotguns aren't limiting (at least for range). My .50 cal muzzleloader seems like a bit of overkill, as does my .44 magnum pistol (which also has range limitations).

So...with centerfires out what are the best choices for coyotes?


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## Brad.T

10 Guage T shot

3 1/2 in 12 in T shot or Hevi shot "Dead Coyote"


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## bighunter

I bought a .17HM2 last yr and everyone i talked to said they will bring down a coyote its just like anyother gun hit them right they will fall you could shoot a 300 at them and hit them some where not vital and still have to do a tracking job its all about the experience i personally like to track it brings more excitement and fun to me.I was out on saturday and rolled a coyote with my .24s at 150yrds and he got up and ran another 200 yrds into a huge slough its all about shot placement.Good Luck


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## steve P

I LIVE AND HUNT IN MASSACHUSETTS, THE LARGEST CALABER I CAN USE FOR PREDATOR HUNTING IS A 22 LONG RIFLE . 22WMR IS ILLEGAL,SO I BOUGHT A 17HMR,THE GUN IS A TACK DRIVER OUT TO A 100 YARDS. ON A CALM DAY I CAN SHOOT A FIVE SHOT GROUP INSIDE A DIME FROM A BIPOD OFF A BENCH. I HAVE SHOT ALOT OF SM. GAME WITH THIS GUN BUT IT BLOWS THEM APART I HAVE'NT YET USED IT ON COYOTE'S YET. I THINK IF I CAN HIT A DIME A HEART SHOT OR A HEAD SHOT SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. I DON'T LIKE WOUNDING ANIMALS EITHER BUT FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN WHAT THIS THING DOES TO SM. GAME I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE CRUEL OR UNETHICAL TO USE THIS GUN TO HUNT FOX OR COYOTES WITH. I THINK IT WOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE THAN A 22 LONG RIFLE.THE LARGEST SHOTSIZE WE CAN USE IS #2 NO T SHOT OR BUCK SHOT IS ALLOWED AND CAN'T USE A SHOT GUN AT NIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO USE A CENTER FIRE LIKE A 22-250 BUT I CAN'T IN MA. :sniper:


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## coyotekiller6660

280IM said:


> I think this guy has killed a few sparrows with his Daisy Red Rider over the last 10 years and my have crippled a few The rest is BS


\
oh come on man dont dis the daisy red rider granted that does sound a little off but i have something else you guys can argue about recently i went hunting i have a remington 243 and i was shooting remington factory 100 grain boat tail rounds well we came across a coyote at 270 yards so i took a shot at him i got him but the only problem is that the enterence hole was about an inch in diameter and the exit was about 6 inches in diameter what should i do


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## Brad.T

Get a needle and thread or go down to the 85 grain soft points or hollow points


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## coyotekiller6660

Brad.T said:


> Get a needle and thread or go down to the 85 grain soft points or hollow points


\

so you dont think that a 17 with 25 grain ballestic tips would do the job for coyotes :sniper:


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## Brad.T

The 17 REM is a great calling rifle i don't know about the ballistic tips haven't seen them at work yet but i've seen a lot of coyotes shot with a 17 it gets a little wary after 250yds though


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## coyotekiller6660

yeah i knew that you could proly catch them at that range but if i get a shot under 100 yards do you think i could knock one down
:sniper:


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## Brad.T

Yes with a 17 REM not a 17 HMR


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## xdeano

Definitly the 17 Rem, or the 17 Mark IV aka 17 fireball. I had a buddy that always used his 17 Mark IV in high school and he always did well.

Definitly not the 17HMR or mark2, I shot a fox last year at 20 yards with the 20g hollowpoints (17hmr) and i ended up tracking it for about 125 yards, it was great shot placement just not enough to open the wound channel enough to cause a quick death. it looked like i had shot it with a fmj, just a clean hole through both sides. so NO on the coyotes, i'll stick with my 22 centerfires and up.
Deano


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## Bore.224

steve P said:


> I LIVE AND HUNT IN MASSACHUSETTS, THE LARGEST CALABER I CAN USE FOR PREDATOR HUNTING IS A 22 LONG RIFLE . 22WMR IS ILLEGAL,SO I BOUGHT A 17HMR,THE GUN IS A TACK DRIVER OUT TO A 100 YARDS. ON A CALM DAY I CAN SHOOT A FIVE SHOT GROUP INSIDE A DIME FROM A BIPOD OFF A BENCH. I HAVE SHOT ALOT OF SM. GAME WITH THIS GUN BUT IT BLOWS THEM APART I HAVE'NT YET USED IT ON COYOTE'S YET. I THINK IF I CAN HIT A DIME A HEART SHOT OR A HEAD SHOT SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. I DON'T LIKE WOUNDING ANIMALS EITHER BUT FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN WHAT THIS THING DOES TO SM. GAME I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE CRUEL OR UNETHICAL TO USE THIS GUN TO HUNT FOX OR COYOTES WITH. I THINK IT WOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE THAN A 22 LONG RIFLE.THE LARGEST SHOTSIZE WE CAN USE IS #2 NO T SHOT OR BUCK SHOT IS ALLOWED AND CAN'T USE A SHOT GUN AT NIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO USE A CENTER FIRE LIKE A 22-250 BUT I CAN'T IN MA. :sniper:


Yeah aint are state great! You could use a contender Pistol in 22-250 :wink: that would be leagal!! Have you ever had anyone check on you while you are hunting in Mass? I have up to this point done all my Hunting in New Hampshire or Maine and was wondering how enforced the repressive hunting laws in Mass are?


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## steve P

I sent in the picture of the coyote I shot with my savage 17HMR head shot 50 yards dropped like a rock nice clean kill i hope the picture goes through coyote was 48 lbs. :sniper:


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## lspence

rob1089 said:


> I bought a 17 hmr last fall, is it enough gun, with a well placed chest shot to kill a coyote??? What do you think?


IS IT WORTH THE ANIMAL SUFFERING FOR WHO KNOWS HOW LONG FOR THE SAKE OF SHOOTING IT WITH A LIGHT BULLET? THE TRUE SPORTSMAN WILL AGREE THAT THE ETHICAL RESPONSIBLITY TO MAKE A CLEAN KILL BEGINS AND ENDS WITH THE HUNTER. YES, YOU COULD KILL A COYOTE WITH A .17HMR, HOWEVER YOU ARE SETTING THE STAGE FOR A WOUNDED AND SUFFERING COYOTE/ VARMIT.


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## Remington 7400




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## ReKooH

How come people are bring topics from 2005 back? Let it rest and fall to the bottom


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## varminthuntr

CritterKiller said:


> Fair enough. Not all areas of the country are the same. I thought this was a reputable forum where FACTUAL experience could be shared. Over the past ten years, I have not, but once had a livestock farmer deny me rights to hunt coyotes on their land for the purpose of protecting their livestock. Not one of which seemed to care what I did with them or how I killed them. I'm sure since none of you care to here my experiences (whether you agree with them or not), you won't care to here this either. But because I am proud of my 22 years of service to the United States Navy. I am an extremely proficient marksman as well as a competetive shooter. The knowledge I have of the effects wind, rain, snow, heat, cold, humidity, dew point have on a bullet in flight are more than sufficient. So yes, I know what wind does to a bullet in flight and I know how to calculate and compensate for such alterations. I know several game wardens with the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife. And all feel the same way about coyotes HERE !! I never once pretended to know how your State Departments operate. I only speak for the concensus here. The number of coyotes killed stats as well as all the rest are obviously subject to fault and miscalculations. The number only reflects the ones reported to or witnessed by those responsible for gathering and posting the data. When I took credit for 300+ kills over 10 years, I never said all in the state of Kentucky. So think before you flat out call me a liar, as I have not insulted or disrespected anyone on this forum. I will though apologize for upsetting so many, as this was not my intent. If you choose not to believe my words, that is certainly your right. But you will never hear me discounting someone elses opinions or stories on this forum. Simply because I don't know you, your history, what the area you live and hunt in is like or what your views might be. My goal here is not to judge you, only to share with you. If anyone of you still has the kind of hatered towards me that you have already expressed, let me know and I will no longer post here.
> 
> V/R
> 
> BMCM King (Ret.) a.k.a. CritterKiller
> 
> :sniper:


 You are completely right and they should just be quiet


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## Gohon

> How come people are bring topics from 2005 back? Let it rest and fall to the bottom


Some times it is easier for a new member to simply add to or expand on a thread that contains a history of comments but still hasn't answered a question to his/her satisfaction or understanding. This thread may have started in 2005 but it did not die there............. in fact it has been brought back to the top every couple months. If it really bothers you that much then just skip over it.


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## rookietoyotes

i agree with crittergitter you can kill a person with a bb gun prolly could kill a yote with a bb gun. you have to remeber that part of it depends on where you live. here in MI most shots will be 100 yards or less we aren;t out west with long long shots and also if you are hunting at night here it has to be a rim fire or a shot gun with basically goose or duck loads. one of the guys i work with shot a yote with his duty weapon .45 sig and he hit it twice and still had to track it for about 60 yards. 
we were sitting around deer camp one year with and older guy that way prolly about 75 we were all drinking beer talking and someone said what gun do you all think has shot more deer we all responded typical deer camp arguing etc.. and the old guy stpes in and says you are all full of sh... a .22 has killed more deer i promise you that! well ponder that one for awhile it kinds blew my mind.


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## Mose

That is true. Where I am from a .22lr has killed more deer, bear, and hogs than probably everything else put together. Before anyone says anything, yes it is illegal and no I don't personally participate in it. But that doesn't mean it can't be done pretty easily.


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## sasquatch2000

steve P said:


> I LIVE AND HUNT IN MASSACHUSETTS, THE LARGEST CALABER I CAN USE FOR PREDATOR HUNTING IS A 22 LONG RIFLE . 22WMR IS ILLEGAL,SO I BOUGHT A 17HMR,THE GUN IS A TACK DRIVER OUT TO A 100 YARDS. ON A CALM DAY I CAN SHOOT A FIVE SHOT GROUP INSIDE A DIME FROM A BIPOD OFF A BENCH. I HAVE SHOT ALOT OF SM. GAME WITH THIS GUN BUT IT BLOWS THEM APART I HAVE'NT YET USED IT ON COYOTE'S YET. I THINK IF I CAN HIT A DIME A HEART SHOT OR A HEAD SHOT SHOULD NOT BE A PROBLEM. I DON'T LIKE WOUNDING ANIMALS EITHER BUT FROM WHAT I'VE SEEN WHAT THIS THING DOES TO SM. GAME I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE CRUEL OR UNETHICAL TO USE THIS GUN TO HUNT FOX OR COYOTES WITH. I THINK IT WOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE THAN A 22 LONG RIFLE.THE LARGEST SHOTSIZE WE CAN USE IS #2 NO T SHOT OR BUCK SHOT IS ALLOWED AND CAN'T USE A SHOT GUN AT NIGHT. I WOULD LIKE TO USE A CENTER FIRE LIKE A 22-250 BUT I CAN'T IN MA. :sniper:


Edit:

I see we were both wrong. According to MA laws in the extract, "Rifles chambered to take larger than .22 caliber rimfire ammunition and pistols and revolvers larger than .38 caliber are prohibited between the hours of 1/2 hour after sunset and 1/2 hour before sunrise." In other words, rifles of all sorts are fine during the day, but not at night.

So, is a .357 Sig "larger than .38 caliber"? (-;

*2007 FISHING & HUNTING LAWS*
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfwpdf/dfwab07.pdf


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## Hunter.17

what is the best .17 hmr bullet to use on coyotes???


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## sasquatch2000

None that I know of. If you want to use a .17, try the new Remington Fireball or the .17 Remington.

I know the .22 Velocitor http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=79962 is advertised for predators, so if they came out with a Velocitor in .17 HMR, that _might _be an option.


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## Hunter.17

Where can i buy the thumbhole stock for the marlin .17 hmr???


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## huntnfish08

Hunter.17 said:


> Where can i buy the thumbhole stock for the marlin .17 hmr???


taken from rimfirecentral.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by glatador 
Does any company make aftermarket thumbhole stocks for the marlin 917

http://www.revivalindustries.com/ Revival used to make the tundra for a 917 call them and ask. I really like mine.


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## huntnfish08

xdeano said:


> Definitly not the 17HMR or mark2, I shot a fox last year at 20 yards with the 20g hollowpoints (17hmr) and i ended up tracking it for about 125 yards, it was great shot placement just not enough to open the wound channel enough to cause a quick death. it looked like i had shot it with a fmj, just a clean hole through both sides. so NO on the coyotes, i'll stick with my 22 centerfires and up.
> Deano


For fox hunting I'd try the 17gr VMax loads as fox are quite small animals. The quick expansion of the Ballistic tip should make short work of a fox. Stick with the 20gr XTPs for coyote(if your going to use the 17) and small game that you want to eat. Less expansion means less wasted meat. FMJ rounds are available for smallgame also. As with any caliber you must pick the correct bullet to do the job. I wouldn't shoot the 100gn varmint bullets out of my 270 for deer when I can use a 130 or 140gr controlled expansion.


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## dfisher

To me, shooting coyotes with a .17 HMR is a lot like shooting geese with steel #4's. Yea, at 20 yards they might work and the chances of a pellet hitting one in the head and making for a clean kill is quite good. But what about at 40 or 50 yards? Crippling loads at the very least. Now BB's or BBB's on the other hand....They'll still fold them at 20 yards and have the knockdown it takes to put the biggest, winter toughened honker on the ground, dead, at longer ranges.

Same with 'yotes. The .17 HMR may well be a tack driver and assure head shots at moderate ranges. But so too will the .223 or .22-250 or .243, and others. So why not carry something that will not only knock them at close range, but will also reach out with the accuracy needed to put them down, cleanly, at extended ranges.

With the prices I'm seeing on rifles today, there is no good excuse or reason to carry a sub-standard caliber to the coyote stand. For the same money or maybe a bit more, a nice centerfire rig can be put into play.

Good luck, 
Dan


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## 308

yes, would i do it no. Only cause i have 6mm which is just like the 243. :sniper:


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## Hunter.17

I just bought a ballistic plex scope for my .17 that has the yardage markings, but i havent got to shoot it yet and i was wondering how well they work, if you have used one before???


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## huntnfish08

Yes, Worked great! Shot this one last night. I'll continue using mine.








Happy hunting :sniper:


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## Rich Cronk

steve P,

The main problem with the.17 HMR at this time, is the only bullets available are designed to blow up on small critters. If I was limited to nothing more powerful than the .22 rimfire, I would shop around for high velocity fodder that was loaded with the heaviest bullet available for the .22 long Rifle. I'm thinking that bullet would be a 40 grainer, and for coyotes I'm pretty certain that it would perform better than the .17 HMR.


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## dfisher

NOa

Dan


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## barebackjack

For you ND guys that think this is an adequate caliber.....what about wind drift? What kind of drifts are you dealing with at a measly 100 yards in a 15-20 mph wind?

I dont know. Everyone seems to think its ok to undergun for coyotes...probably because "their only coyotes".....you wouldnt go deer hunting with a .204 would you? Same difference.


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## dfisher

I posted this in another thread that was dealing with miniscule pea shooters for coyotes. I'll dust it off and repost here for all you nimrods out there witha with coyotes on your mind. Thank you, thank you very much :lol:

I'll tell you a story.

The only coyote that I've ever shot in my life was in Ohio. I shot this animal while ground hog hunting one balmy day with a buddy of mine.

We were walking along a creek, heading back to someplace, from someplace and this coyote leaped out of the brush and headed strait away at around a hundred yards or so. By the time I got my .22/250 up and the crosshairs on the animal it was a pretty good end out and I'd guess it between 150 and 200 yards. Not a long shot for a 250, but considering it was a coyote, and it was running, it was a long shot. Add to that that I'm a pretty bad shot.

Anyway, at the shot, this yote went a$$ over apple cart and piled up. That's when its sidekick bounced out of the brush and took off across in front of us at a good end. I don't think I've ever seen an animal move that fast in its flight of fright. My buddy racked a couple rounds off at it but didn't have any luck.

Anyway, we walked down to the one I'd shot and I was vary sad. I had hit the animal just above the tail and the 55 grain BTHP had done a good job of immobilizing the animal. Unfortunately, though dying, it hadn't given up the ghost yet. The poor thing had its tongue just about bitten in half, I'd guess from pain. It was trying as hard as it could to gain it's feet and make a get away but the bullet had pretty much gutted it and the bowls were dragging hanging out and it was losing a lot of blood.

Needless to say, I wasn't very proud of myself at that moment. I quickly chambered another round and shot the coyote in the head to put it out of its misery. To this day I'm still not very proud of that animal and the way it died. No animal, coyote or whatever, should suffer like that one did. On that day I vowed that I wouldn't shoot another coyote unless I was damn sure that I done everything that I could to make the kill quick and humane.

So, I would say that while you can do as you please, I'd feel pretty under gunned with a .22 long rifle, .17 anything (centerfire excluded) or even a .22 magnum. You're asking for crippled yotes that end up getting away and suffering an agonizing death.

My two cents worth. 
Dan
_________________
Duck: Bird with a green head and a reedy quack.


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## huntnfish08

CritterKiller said:


> By the way Brad. In your state people are far more in tune with the need to eliminate coyotes. In Fiscal year 2003 North Dakota eliminated 2,688 !! Here in Kentucky, where I live 5 were eliminated. :eyeroll: Eliminated by all means. Trapping, shooting, M44, etc. And as for the deer/vehicle collisions. I believe that is slightly more a problem for us than you ! As of July 2004 Ky. had 4,145,922 deer. North Dakota had 634,366. Also this explains why coyotes can thrive here, no lack of predation (deer).
> 
> :sniper:


Sorry couldn't help but to pick this out. KY doesn't have 4 million deer!!!!! You are full of BS. I'd like to know where you get your figures from. The state of Wisconsin, 2nd highest deer herd in the country, has ONLY 1.7 million. Second only to TEXAS! Kentucky actually recieved trapped deer from Wisconsin in an effort to restore your deer herd!
Point is: Don't believe your problem is bigger than someone elses because of false information. And please don't pass false information onto a public forum where people are trying to learn something or form there own opinions based on FACT and others personal experiences.


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## dfisher

Don't shoot deer or coyotes with .17 HMR's...
Dan


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## coyote_buster

I may have said different in the past but opinions change. The 17 hmr is sufficient, just not as far as some claim, within 75 yards I would confidently head shoot a yote, But much farther and i would push it aside, yes, maybe the 22-250 will knock em down better, but the 17 will still do it at the above range, and i would more confidently use it wih feedlots in the area. Some just arent disciplined enough to pass up a shot at a farther distance is the big problem.


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## glennmck

i am a target shooter mainly but have seen so much talk about ".17hmr no good on yotes vs. .17hmr good on yotes" that i had to see for myself. i got one at 232 paces (well over 200 meters but not sure exactly)off a sand bag shot landed down the ear canal and he dropped fast. moral of story .17 hmr is plenty with good shoot placement. but not my first choice .223 is still much more appropriate.


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## hagfan72

glennmck said:


> ...i got one at 232 paces...


Nice to see that there are midgets joining us on the forum. :lol:

That's my polite way of calling BS!! :eyeroll:


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## Hunter.17

BS whatever...i believe him...
i just got my .17 HMR for christmas and went out on my first hunt with it tonight. i seen 2 coyote together about 225 yards and was able to get about another 40 yards closer...i dropped her straight in her tracks...i wasnt able to get the second one.


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## Mylabsdad

A prairiedod will will make its hole 9 times out of 10 using a 17 HMR at 200 yards. (When hit in the body, not the head or spine) An extremity hit or gut shot coyote will sht & gt whether your using a 300 RUM or .223. anybody that says the 17 HMR is a COYOTE rifle has not shot many dogs period. HMR shooters do a little research, when I shoot my 17 Rem with a 25 grain berger at 4000 FPS I have as much energy at 750 as you do at 150 with your 17 grain VMAX. Would I take a shot at a coyote with my 17 at 750...NOOOO will I take a 375 shot at a coyote with the 17 Rem. Noooo. I hope this helps simplify the reasons the 17 HMR is not a coyote rifle. If they are whithin range for your gopher gun, they are whithin range for your 12 GA with 4 Buck. Leave your rimfire at home and take the shotgun.


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## hagfan72

And for the love of God and everyone else on here who know a thing or two about ballistics, coyotes, and the 17HMR, DO NOT attempt to BS us with these fairy tales of 200+yard bang-flop shots. I LOOOOOOVE my hummer, and I know what it can and cannot do. It cannot and will not kill a 'yote at "232 :eyeroll: paces unless you are EXTREEEEEEEEMLY lucky and brain one.

Ethics, people, ethics!!!


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## dfisher

I don't think anyone disputes whether or not a .17 HMR will kill a coyote with good shot placement. The question is:

Do you have the oppurtunity to get the coyote into decent range...under 100 yards everytime you call one in?

Is the coyote that comes in that close standing or sitting in a way that allows for precise enough shooting to place the tiny bullet in the head of said coyote?

and lastly...

Do most hunters on stand have the restraint to hold their fire at coyotes that are moving or at long range?

My best guess at an answer to these questions is no. There is no guarantee that any hunter, even the most experienced, will be able to pull 'yotes in, get them in a perfect position for a shot to the head, and then hold off if the yote is at long range or moving.

Come on guys! If you can't answer 100% yes to these questions and then hold the line and your fire if in doubt, not only are you cheating the coyote out of good health in the already hostile world in which they live, but you're cheating the rest of us out of a prized resource. You are also cheating yourselves out of putting more fur on the strecher with this sweet little gopher gun.

.17 Remington centerfire...yes. .17 HMR, Mach2, .22 Magnum, and .22 LR...no way!

Sincerely,
Dan


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## Hunter.17

The .17 HMR has just as much energy at 150 yards as the .22 LR has at the muzzle and the same at 200 yards and 50 yards. I think the .17 hmr is great for coyotes.... WHERE I LIVE at least. The coyote i shot at at about 175 yards drop in its tracks, but it was also a chest shot.


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## hagfan72

Hunter.17 said:


> ...I think the .17 hmr is great for coyotes.... WHERE I LIVE at least...


Where you live, what are the coyotes made out of, cardboard?


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## Hunter.17

No i am saying that i dont live out in the open country where you can see a coyote coming from 700 yards all my shots will be 300 yards and closer.


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## dfisher

And still...the debate rages on.

Dan


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## hagfan72

Kinda sad, isn't it? :eyeroll:


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## dmtindell

if it throws a bullet it will kill a cyote (head shot) .17 or 700 8) 8) 8)


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## dfisher

dmtindell said:


> if it throws a bullet it will kill a cyote (head shot) .17 or 700 8) 8) 8)[/quote
> 
> I can throw a bullet. :lol:
> 
> Good hunting,
> Dan


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## FullClip

So I was out today shooting my .17 hmr at paper and the wierdest thing was happening. The 17gr bullets just wouldnt go through the paper, so I went to the store and bought some of 20gr hollow points that I read about on hear and, presto holes in the paper. What a difference they made! Oh then I woke up. Cant you people just use a bigger cal. rifle/shotgun? Oh also I was looking up blow guns today how would they work on yotes out to say 100 yards? hahahahahaha :eyeroll:


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## coyote_buster

Yeah, if you want the challenge of calling them closer use a shotgun.


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## standout

FullClip said:


> Cant you people just use a bigger cal. rifle/shotgun? hahahahahaha :eyeroll:


The answer to that is "NO"
Not because I don't own them,, I have plenty of them,, when I'm not in a management area, I use my 223 or 22-250 on coyotes

The problem is I hunt management areas , I can't use a center fire rifle for coyotes except during gun deer hunts,, 4 days a month, I can hunt them dogs for the other 27 days a month if I use a rim fire, plus an additional full month on the front and back of deer season, if I use a rim fire.

So the son and me bought two hummers,

I love to hate crows, and over the last couple of weeks crows have been falling dead around the house,, something they started eating I guess 

You can't shoot crows in my state with a center fire, but you can a rim fire, and the crows around here won't let you get 100 yds from them.

I have hit and dropped crows out to 225 yds with that 17 so far (thank God for a good BDC scope)

After seeing what the 17 grain plastics tips do to crows, and a hand full of tree rats,, I really don't want to shoot a coyote with one of them,, but I would like to hear what kind of results people have gotten from the 20 grain bullets (XTP or Game Stopper)on yotes,, I don't want to hear from any "ARM CHAIR" number crunchers, I want to know from people who have done it, or tried it.

Shot placement for me is not a problem, I just need to "know" if that 20 grain will make it to the other side, on a broad side shot, or break the neck on one.

If I had a choice, I would be using the 223,, but I have no choice, if I want to shoot coyotes in the management areas


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## mwrhusker

I love this sort of debate because you really never get anywhere or win. At the end of the day anyone who is intelligent enough to understand rifle cartridges and ballistics understands that a .22 caliber long rifle cartridge could potentially kill a world record grizzly bear. Is this recommended-absolutely not, but in any given situation you can effectively use smaller caliber shells to kill game. So my answer to this question would be YES. Choose your shots wisely. Don't shoot outside your comfort zone. Practice,Practice, Practice. And have fun.

.17HMR is not my choice for hunting coyotes but you can use it very effectively.


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## standout

mwrhusker said:


> I love this sort of debate because you really never get anywhere or win. At the end of the day anyone who is intelligent enough to understand rifle cartridges and ballistics understands that a .22 caliber long rifle cartridge could potentially kill a world record grizzly bear. Is this recommended-absolutely not, but in any given situation you can effectively use smaller caliber shells to kill game. So my answer to this question would be YES. Choose your shots wisely. Don't shoot outside your comfort zone. Practice,Practice, Practice. And have fun.
> 
> .17HMR is not my choice for hunting coyotes but you can use it very effectively.


I don't want to start the debate again,, I just want to know if the 20 grain bullet will penetrate "enough", I could care less about shock of foot lbs, I plan on putting a hole in something, the hole will do the killing, if I put it in the right place, I'm sure it will put that hole in the coyote's brain, but that is just not the easiest shot to make on a moving coyote.

If a broad side shot hole gets into one, his lungs will collapse, just like a deer's, he won't go far, I need to know if that 20 grain can punch that hole


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## Hunter.17

I droped a coyote in it tracks with the .17 hmr 17 grain plastic tips at 141 yards. The 20 grains should work just fine for coyotes.


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## johngfoster

Standout: you should care about foot pounds of energy. That is what does most of the killing. A tiny .17" hole will do some damage, but the killing power comes from the terminal energy transfer as the bullet comes to a stop. This disrupts the tissue and destroys it. This is what does the killing.

Now, to all those unfortunate souls who live in areas where it is illegal to use a centerfire to shoot coyotes, you should lobby your legislature to change these statutes to ensure humane killing of your quarry. I'm surprised the animal rights people haven't jumped in on this--probably would try to ban it altogether. uke:


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## standout

Hunter.17 said:


> I droped a coyote in it tracks with the .17 hmr 17 grain plastic tips at 141 yards. The 20 grains should work just fine for coyotes.


Where did you hit him ?


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## standout

johngfoster said:


> Standout: you should care about foot pounds of energy. That is what does most of the killing. A tiny .17" hole will do some damage, but the killing power comes from the terminal energy transfer as the bullet comes to a stop. This disrupts the tissue and destroys it. This is what does the killing.
> 
> . uke:


That instant system shut down caused by a 22-250 hitting one is indeed due to the energy of the exploding bullet

I use my 22-250 "where" it is legal

I have switched though to the "other" method of killing, when I go to a rim fire
I have killed an number of coyotes under 50 yds with a 22 LR, the CCI Stinger does some massive damage to a set of lungs, the dogs might run 50 yds after hit broad side with a stinger at that range.

I have seen the 22 mag being used with awesome results for shots under 100 yds

I think I'm just going to have to order a brick of the 17 HMR CCI game Stoppers, and find out for myself, so far I have found no one on the internet who has tried them on Yote's

I will do some penetration comparisons, prior to me hunting with them

If you actually look at the wound caused by bullets, determined by the bullet Dia. There is only 5 hundreds of an inch difference from a .224, and a .174, This is why the 17 Remington kills yote's as cleanly and quickly as a 22-250,, They can't tell the difference of just 0.05 inch in bullet dia.

Of course both of these bullets explode, dropping the yote's in their tracks

With rim fires, we have to have controlled expansion and penetration, just like what someone hunting deer wants, I have found the .223 to be more than enough deer round, for double lung shots using a controlled expansion bullet, it kills just a cleanly and quickly as a 308, never having a deer run more than 50 yds after being hit with a 223 behind the shoulder

The deer could not tell the difference in either the bullet Dia. or the foot ponds of energy, they were just as dead, just as quick.

I firmly believe this will be the case between the 22 mag, and the 17HMR using the 20 grained controlled expansion bullets, on yote's out to perhaps 130 yds, if those 20 grain bullets will do a pass through ?

I have killed deer with everything from a 45/70 to a 223, I have never lost a deer that I've hit with any caliber, but I choose my shots, and don't shoot if I can't be sure of putting the bullet in the "right" place.

Most people who deer hunt us a caliber that can cleanly kill a 700 lb elk or 1200 lb moose, and they think anyone is under gunned using anything less for a 200 lb white tail

My 22-250 and 223 cleanly kill 200 lb white tails, (with the proper bullets) I see no reason my 17 Hummer can't cleanly kill a 50 lb coyote, if I find the proper bullet to shoot from it


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## Hunter.17

Does anyony have and good strateagies on how to call in coyote with the digital calls.....like the order of what calls you use at one stand?????


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## huntnfish08

I shot a coyote this year with my 17HMR. 30# female shot at 67yards with the 20 grain CCI gamepoint. Shot her in the neck, face on. She dropped and spun. Managed to get back up and go 30 yards spraying blood everywhere and falling twice. One more to her chest finished her off. It wasn't needed to keep her down but what the hell, it was my first coyote. Being it was my first I had a friend skin it out for me. He said there was no exit wounds. I never got a chance to examine the skinned carcass.
No exit wound isn't a bad thing. Its fur friendly and you know that all of your bullets energy has been expended inside the animal where it does the most damage.
Am I happy with the performance? You bet I am. I will keep using my 17 for yotes til I find a new toy for next season. I'm thinking 17M4 or 17rem or .204, I'm still up in the air on that though.


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## Plainsman

A 17 HMR for coyote? Well, I don't own one, and I have only shot a couple a few times. I noticed they normally don't penetrate through a cottontail, and never a jackrabbit, so the question about will they penetrate through a coyote chest has to be an absolute no. 
I have shot deer and coyote with 22 Hornet through 300 Winchester Mag, and a 45/70 falling block pushing 405 gr bullets to 2000 fps. 
Experience with coyotes:
The biggest surprise I have had is with my 243. It taught me that full metal jackets are no good for coyote, even in a 243. From a bipod at 25 or 30 yards I shot one through the chest one day. I could see the hair fluff on impact. He ran ½ mile, swam they Sheyenne River, ran another ¼ mile and held up in a brush patch. I had to drive ten miles around which took half an hour. He was still there and I shot him with an 87 gr hollow point as he ran from the brush showing only slight evidence of a previous hit. That left a big hole, but I sewed it up and he hangs in my gun room now. I saved him just as a reminder how tough coyotes are. A deer would have gone down faster. 
I much prefer my 22-250 for coyote, because I have lost them with less than perfect broadside shots with a 223. One day a friend of mine knocked down two. Both got up and run. I dropped the one, and the other got away. He was shooting Hornady SX which expand so rapidly that I don't think they penetrated sufficiently. I was shooting 50 gr Ballistic Tip. I wasn't to proud of my performance that day either. The closer the coyotes came the more I bent over to hide. I wasn't watching and my call was close to the rear lens of my scope. Needles to say while my friend was shooting I was trying to melt the thick frost off with my thumb. I cleared it up enough to shoot the one trying to escape while he threw lead at the other.
Nearly everything will die from a head shot even from a small caliber. However angle the skull a little bit, throw in a wind gust --------- not a good shot at a golf ball size brain past 50 yards under hunting conditions. Some of you can do it, some of you can't, and only you know. Calm day, calm coyote, good rest, and you can stretch that a ways. Twenty guys might shoot at coyote at 200 yards and one will kill one. If this is your first try and you were successful don't put to much faith in the little rimfire. It's very, very, unlikely to happen again. 
After my experience with full metal jackets in a 243 I would say that anyone shooting with a 17HMR at coyotes could be hitting them multiple times and not knowing it. My nephew trapped 40 coyotes so far this year. He skins and ships to the fur auction in Winnipeg, Manitoba so he wants little fur damage. He thought that at five yards a 22 long rifle hollow point through the chest would quickly do them in and he wouldn't have a nicer looking hid than one with a hole in the head. Shooting them in the head you always get that big subdural hematoma that discolors the skin, leaves a lump, and makes fleshing a mess. Anyway, he shot a nice big male broadside in the trap at five yards. It showed no reaction. He waited a couple minutes and shot him again. Then he sat and watched him for a while. They coyote laid down with his head up and alert watching him for ten minutes. He shot him in the head, and to be humane he has shot all others after that in the head. Like him I would have expected a coyote to die within less than 30 seconds shot through the chest at that range, even with a 22 long rifle. 
I have shot a lot of coyotes, and I am still amazed at their endurance. Animals are not that much unlike people though, and I have read law enforcement accounts of one fellow taking 13 rounds from a 9mm and still killing two federal officers, while at the other end of the spectrum some guy drops at the shot and dies after taking a single 25 caliber to the mid section.
My recommendation (and this is only my personal thoughts) for coyote:
17 caliber bullets under at 2500 fps limit to head shots at 50 yards (use a shotgun)
17 caliber at over 3500 fps chest shots to 300 yards
22 caliber bullets under 2500 fps head shots to 100 yards, chest shots with hollow points to 50 yards
22 caliber over 3000 fps chest shots to 300 yards
22 caliber over 3800 fps chest shots to 500 yards
243, 25/06, 270, 308 a long ways
300 Magnums over 3000 fps, bipod, rifle with under .3 inch/100 yd capability, no wind, my personal limit???????

My personal recommendation, don't automatically dismiss accounts, don't automatically dismiss experience, don't forget to have fun. My moderator recommendation, don't let anyone get under your skin to the point you become disrespectful. I hope my firearms, coyote, and personal perspectives were useful to someone.


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## YoteSlapper

Plainsman,

Sounds like your nephew gets a nice bunch of yotes trapping. That is the way to get good numbers for sure...

If he is trying to minimize any type of damage by shooting them, see if he has ever tried "heal stomping". When I trapped, the only time I would ever shoot an animal that was in a trap was when it might be in a position that did not allow a clear approach to it. If a yote is laying out in an open area in a trap, which usually they are if he is using footholds. You can approach them and distract them with one hand and tap them on the nose with the other, that will send them to the ground. Then put one foot on the neck and then one sharp blow to the chest with the other foot/heel will generally dispatch them. This is very clean for the trap area if he plans to re-set the trap and eliminates the damage caused by shooting them. If he tries this tell him it takes an aggressive blow to the chest. But he will be suprised how little of a tap to the nose it takes to put one to the ground for a few seconds.

I have skinned quite a few critters that have been shot to the head. Your right that is not the way to do it.

YoteSlapper


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## Hunter.17

Does anyone have any good coyote calling sequences for a digital call???


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## YoteSlapper

Hunter17

Try starting a new thread with your question. You may get better response that way.

Good luck

YoteSlapper


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## varmit b gone

coyotekilla said:


> i think people need to stop being such cry babies about its not going to kill the varmint quick enough.
> 
> How inhumane can you get? Coyotes deserve to die quick and painless. I doubt you want to die in pain. :eyeroll:


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## Kramasz

IT DOESN't MATTER :sniper:


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## nytrapper16

would a .17 kill a fox


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## laviii

Yes a .17 will kill a Foxs or Coyotes if you hit tham in a GOOD SPOT, if not may not kill there but thay will dead in a day or two. I use a 222 rem for tham out to 300 yards and it kills tham Dogs, 22LR on tham to out to 75 yards
It's like someone to say that you need 30,06 or 303 to kill Moose or Deer you did't need tham I have used tham and 3030 win's 1 shot kill 125's yards fr Moose, Like (I SAY IN A GOOD SPOT ) . 
:beer: AND HAVE ALOT OF FUN KILL COYOTES :sniper:


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## fieldnstreamer

Hi guys i just accidently stumbled across this thread while doing a little research on the .17. Its odd that you mention "will a .17 kill a coyote. Where I live in east Tn there is a dairy farm on nearly every corner it seems like. I have some good friends who live on a very large farm and they have a major coyote problem and have asked me to come help them with their problem with beavers, coyotes, other problem causers. So i went out to their farm today and first thing i saw laying out in about a 500 acre wheat field was a very large coyote, one of the biggest ones ive ever seen in these parts. Before you all go calling me a liar and a know it all or that ive pulled this out of my a** I just want you to know that i dont care because in not going to respond or talk about the matter because Ill probably never visit this thread ever again. But anyways. i went out to the edge of the field between the river and the field and about 400 yds out it was laying there, well it saw me and got up and trotted from my left to my right and slightly angled to me. Well I wasnt planning on having to make this far of a shot but i ranged him with my range finder and it was right at 400 yds and i was in my truck and i sped through the field to close in on him and so i did. I got with in 200 yds and stopped, got out, propped up, and fired. The coyote was running away and when i shot it stumbled like it had been hit and the cut left, i got back in the truck, turned around and head back to the river to cut it off and i did. well i got in front of it and let it run in front of me about 300 yds ahead of me and it stopped broad side looked at me and i pulled a few inches high about its neck and cracked off a shot. Im not gonna brag about how good of a shot i am because someone will try to put me down because everyone knows that they are the best shot, but ive shot about every popular caliber at about every species around these parts and own many of them. I guess you can say i know what im doing with guns, my 1 shot 1 kill record for my entire life speaks for its self, i dont usually take shots that would present a chance of me missing and wounding it, I hunt mainly deer but i do other things also. Needless to say the coyote was hit in the neck and made a nice hole through and through. I shoot a savage .17hmr varminter with a bull barrel and i use federal 17 gr. polymer tiped premium bullets. I used to own a nearly Identical 22WMR in and almost identical marlin rifle. i am much more impressed with how the 17 performs than my 22wmr, but each opinion is different. I would defiantly prefer using my .270 no doubt, but i didnt have it ready when the farmer called and he didnt care how or with what gun i used. I heard someone on here say earlier that farmers would shun us hunters and give all a bad name for letting one run off and die, but last time i checked...any gun can make an imperfect shot and so can any shooter. Someone also said that SPINE shots were inhumane??? you have got to be kidding. Thats about the fastest and least painful way to take one, if you want there to be 0% pain inflicted on an animal then dont shoot them. The farmers could careless how they die around here, yes its not as human to think that they felt nothing, i try to hand them death on a silver platter and them never know i was there, but i try not to get too worked up about it if they dont fall in their tracks. The and someone on here said that they never knew of a coyote bothering a calf, well on any dairy farm the calfs are taken away from their mothers very quickly and put in a separate holding lot where they are very vulnerable to predation. Next time i got i will have my .270, but my experience with a .17 was not a bad one. It will get the job dne if you make the right shot and Im not always a perfect shot, but im always prepared to take a hard shot. a spine or a head shot out to 200 yds shouldnt be that hard if the gun is consistent, accurate, and you know how to shoot it. My .17 will knock the center out of a quarter at 150 yds, and about the same at 200. you just got to know how to do it, and plenty of time on the range will give you that experience. I love shooting and hunting with all my heart and put a 100% effort into it. I want to be a shooter that can be looked at with great confidence one day and that anyone will know that i can kill anything with any gun at any distance, thats probably a dream that is many years in the making, but im well on my way, Ive spent a lot of time and money finding several guns in different categories that i have total confidence in and it was worth it all. So sorry for this long answer, but yea, you can kill a coyote with a .17. I wouldnt recommend it for over 150 yds if your a mediocre shot at best, but with time and practice anything is possible. To anyone who is told that something cant be done I hope you prove them all wrong. From my experience its a great feeling, but the great feeling i get isnt that they were wrong, its just that it boosts my self confidence. Confidence in my gun and my skill is what i would say has pulled 100% of all my hardest shots through for me.If a .17 is what you wish to use then take that weapon and learn its behavior from every distance. A gun is a tool, master it and you can do about anything with it.


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## barebackjack

fieldnstreamer said:


> Hi guys i just accidently stumbled across this thread while doing a little research on the .17. Its odd that you mention "will a .17 kill a coyote. Where I live in east Tn there is a dairy farm on nearly every corner it seems like. I have some good friends who live on a very large farm and they have a major coyote problem and have asked me to come help them with their problem with beavers, coyotes, other problem causers. So i went out to their farm today and first thing i saw laying out in about a 500 acre wheat field was a very large coyote, one of the biggest ones ive ever seen in these parts. Before you all go calling me a liar and a know it all or that ive pulled this out of my a** I just want you to know that i dont care because in not going to respond or talk about the matter because Ill probably never visit this thread ever again. But anyways. i went out to the edge of the field between the river and the field and about 400 yds out it was laying there, well it saw me and got up and trotted from my left to my right and slightly angled to me. Well I wasnt planning on having to make this far of a shot but i ranged him with my range finder and it was right at 400 yds and i was in my truck and i sped through the field to close in on him and so i did. I got with in 200 yds and stopped, got out, propped up, and fired. The coyote was running away and when i shot it stumbled like it had been hit and the cut left, i got back in the truck, turned around and head back to the river to cut it off and i did. well i got in front of it and let it run in front of me about 300 yds ahead of me and it stopped broad side looked at me and i pulled a few inches high about its neck and cracked off a shot. Im not gonna brag about how good of a shot i am because someone will try to put me down because everyone knows that they are the best shot, but ive shot about every popular caliber at about every species around these parts and own many of them. I guess you can say i know what im doing with guns, my 1 shot 1 kill record for my entire life speaks for its self, i dont usually take shots that would present a chance of me missing and wounding it, I hunt mainly deer but i do other things also. Needless to say the coyote was hit in the neck and made a nice hole through and through. I shoot a savage .17hmr varminter with a bull barrel and i use federal 17 gr. polymer tiped premium bullets. I used to own a nearly Identical 22WMR in and almost identical marlin rifle. i am much more impressed with how the 17 performs than my 22wmr, but each opinion is different. I would defiantly prefer using my .270 no doubt, but i didnt have it ready when the farmer called and he didnt care how or with what gun i used. I heard someone on here say earlier that farmers would shun us hunters and give all a bad name for letting one run off and die, but last time i checked...any gun can make an imperfect shot and so can any shooter. Someone also said that SPINE shots were inhumane??? you have got to be kidding. Thats about the fastest and least painful way to take one, if you want there to be 0% pain inflicted on an animal then dont shoot them. The farmers could careless how they die around here, yes its not as human to think that they felt nothing, i try to hand them death on a silver platter and them never know i was there, but i try not to get too worked up about it if they dont fall in their tracks. The and someone on here said that they never knew of a coyote bothering a calf, well on any dairy farm the calfs are taken away from their mothers very quickly and put in a separate holding lot where they are very vulnerable to predation. Next time i got i will have my .270, but my experience with a .17 was not a bad one. It will get the job dne if you make the right shot and Im not always a perfect shot, but im always prepared to take a hard shot. a spine or a head shot out to 200 yds shouldnt be that hard if the gun is consistent, accurate, and you know how to shoot it. My .17 will knock the center out of a quarter at 150 yds, and about the same at 200. you just got to know how to do it, and plenty of time on the range will give you that experience. I love shooting and hunting with all my heart and put a 100% effort into it. I want to be a shooter that can be looked at with great confidence one day and that anyone will know that i can kill anything with any gun at any distance, thats probably a dream that is many years in the making, but im well on my way, Ive spent a lot of time and money finding several guns in different categories that i have total confidence in and it was worth it all. So sorry for this long answer, but yea, you can kill a coyote with a .17. I wouldnt recommend it for over 150 yds if your a mediocre shot at best, but with time and practice anything is possible. To anyone who is told that something cant be done I hope you prove them all wrong. From my experience its a great feeling, but the great feeling i get isnt that they were wrong, its just that it boosts my self confidence. Confidence in my gun and my skill is what i would say has pulled 100% of all my hardest shots through for me.If a .17 is what you wish to use then take that weapon and learn its behavior from every distance. A gun is a tool, master it and you can do about anything with it.


I think its getting a bit deep around here, and I cant find my shovel.


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## fieldnstreamer

QUOTE "I think its getting a bit deep around here, and I cant find my shovel."

I knew I could find nay sayer out there. Its funny how fast people jump to make those kind of remarks when they themselves weren't there and probably have never even tried to make shots pass 100 yds. I would say most of the shots that are well places out past 200 yds with a .17 have a little bit of luck involved. but luck shots do happen. A .17 has nearly no energy past 200 yds, not that they have any great amount even coming from the barrel, but they have enough at those distances to penetrate the skin. And you can forget a shot like that if there is wind. A 17gr bullet will not buck wind when it is that far out. but if not one believes me about certain shots able to be made then I'll scan some of my targets for yall in the next few days when the weather calms down.


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## birdog105

my 2 pennies, having owned one... The 17HMR is a long range plinking gun or short range varmint gun... IE squirrels, groundhogs, woodchucks, PD's, muskrats, etc... I'd even say its plenty for a fox out to 100 yds, but if your hunting fox you'll see coyotes, and I know most wouldn't have the will power to hold back(I wouldn't). for coyotes I'd recommend the .22 WMR if you must use a rimfire, otherwise a 22 centerfire is in order.

(I recommend 204 ruger if you can afford the ammo, or reload.)

for the record fieldnstream... a poly tipped 17HMR round won't penetrate a quarter at 200 yds, :roll: so no... you can't knock the center out of a quarter with it (and I doubt the 20 gr bullet would either). And if you did that is a federal offense, and you could serve time for it...


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## d_handley00

i have friends who say it will and friends that say it wont. some of them have shot and killed some, some have shot and wounded some and some have shot and hit them but never found them. personally i think that there are better cartridges out there but i hve used mine before and killed them. in thick woods you rarely get over an 75 yard shot and you can aim behind the shoulder and get a great vital shot or maybe even a head shot, that is the only way because a 17hmr will not break bone very well, especilly at longer distances. all and all if you feel comfortable using it and the gun shoots good, use it. we akk know its shot placement that will kill an animal and not a miracle bullet. look at the plus side, the fur will not be damaged and a nice pelt might be had. i hope this helps and good luck


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## 22-250 hunter

you guys dont know what your talking about i have killed 15 yotes with my 17 hmr it is a perfect yote gun. i have shot them between the *** and the nose and havnt lost one yet.


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## d_handley00

were they all within 150 yards? and the rectum shots at 5 yards? or were they already dead?


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## Fallguy

22-250 hunter said:


> you guys dont know what your talking about i have killed 15 yotes with my 17 hmr it is a perfect yote gun. i have shot them between the a$$ and the nose and havnt lost one yet.


That's quite the amazing feat. I can't believe it! A shot to the hindquarters killed one with a rimfire....hmm.


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## workinallthetime

Ok I am another new guy here, I first started killing yotes due to the fact that they were killing all the cats and small dogs around my home. I started 3 years ago and to date I have killed 19 in all sizes and colors. I have created the safest area to exterminate them as possible due to homes with in a couple thousand yards uphill from me. Until this year I used a 10/22 with cci stingers. When I started out I just shot the thing as close as I could to his heart/lungs, I got tired of looking for them in the brush and thorns and started going for head shots, the little 10/22 did a fine job of that at 100 yards. I got the CFO to ok a 17hmr and I am using that now. The first kill with the 17 hmr using v-max I hit the yote in the neck and he dropped to the ground on the spot. I find the gun to be extremely accurate and fun to shoot with not much noise, all my shots are with in the 100 to 150 range. In my case I can not use a larger gun and have met with very good success with the .17 hmr and 22lr. The ones I had to find were never more than 30-40 yards away from the point where I gave them the cci injection.

On another note, some of the guys around here were talking about coyotes being like deer in the fact that they retrack the same trail every 3 days, any truth to that? One of the best nights I had I killed 3 by tying a rope to a dead rabbit and dragging it through the woods, I wore rubber boots to do the dragging and removal of the dead ones after each kill. I have a 175 watt mercury vapor light hung high in the tress to light up the "kill zone" but after clearing much of the under brush the yotes stay in the perimeter. My blue healer has learned to make 1 bark and then a low growl to alert me when they are around.

The neighbors cats and little foo foo puppies are safe another night :sniper:


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## deerblazer93

i shot a fox with a 22 lr with cci stinger and it was probably 50 yard shot right behind the shoulder and it rolled that thing and it didnt run but was still alive so then i shot it in the head i think a .17 would work if u put it in the head but a .243 or a 22-250 is an exelent round for coyote i shot one with a .270 and it messed it up ill post a pic of it


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## roccodawg

I have been reading with interest some of the comments here posted about the .17 HMR and its utility on Coyotes. While many of the posts and theoretical assessments are valuable, I decided to log in and write about what this weapon has done first hand.

To begin with, I own a Marlin .17 HMR and have a small ranch in Texas. Coyotes consistently prove to be a ranch menace to my cattle and pose a risk, albeit a relatively low one, to my kids. My point here isn't to debate the ethical nature of killing Coyotes as others have discussed. Rather, that I do kill them, every chance I get, and am viscerally comfortable with doing do.

I kill Coyotes at 200 yards with Remington 17 grain rounds. I've done it several times and they die....quickly. I appreciate the argument by some that quick and humane kills are what responsible hunters seek and I am no exception. However, what makes this so effective in my experience is that it's exceptionally accurate at those distances and allows for sound shot placement. I've never head shot one; it's always been behind the shoulder much like you'd shoot a deer. Sometimes they drop, sometimes they run off a few feet, but they always die quickly. The furthest I've had one run is about 30 meters before lying down to die.

My range is consistently between 180-200 yards as that is the customary path of travel they typically take along one of my cross fence lines, so the distance has remained pretty consistent.

I'm no ballistics expert, but my opinion is that a round travelling that fast is bound to do some pointed damage and I love the rifle. Great flexibility for me personally inasmuch as I can shoot small game too and the weapon has rendered a .22 totally obsolete for my purposes. My only knock on it is that I'm getting a bit too old to listen to the loud bangs and this one isn't exactly stealth. Happy predator hunting.


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## johnjespersen

i shot a coyote with my 17 hmr just the other dau from 145 yards solid lung shot he ran maybe 20 yards and then was done. one shot is all it took.


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## zzyzx

It is all about shot placement. All else being equal... use something with a bigger chunk of lead and more power.
That said, I have killed two coyotes with .22 cal air rifles. Perfect distance and shot placement. Lucky they came into my sweet spot. Would not have shot if they had not come into the range I am sighted in at and where I had enough power to do the job. One shot through the left eye into the brain right at 40 yards. The Air Rifle gets 1/2 inch groups at that range and I was prone and had been watching him come in for a few hundred yards. Would have been a lot easier with a .243.
Get a larger calibre rifle and practice marksmanship. Even your .50 cal is worthless if you can't hit the animal.


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## Sask hunter

22-250 hunter said:


> you guys dont know what your talking about i have killed 15 yotes with my 17 hmr it is a perfect yote gun. i have shot them between the a$$ and the nose and havnt lost one yet.


I have seen coyotes hit in the gut with a 300 win mag be alive still when you go to pick them up


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## Savage+Hornady=BUCK

personally i like using my 30-06 heheheh   :sniper:


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## rsteve

how do you all feel about the 17 hmr for turkey took 1 last weekend with a 22 hornet but they are expensive


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