# IF you find someone in your stand leave him there



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/ ... 6866.shtml

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5098378.html


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

More great news for the St. Paul Hmong community. :eyeroll:


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## smalls (Sep 9, 2003)

This would be the 2nd hunting related murder involving a Hmong immigrant in WI in the last 3 years.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

5000 more are coming to reside in the cities. That's encouraging.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Its scary that anyone would be willing to kill someone over a deer hunting spot, I wouldn't antagonize anyone in the deer woods, people have just gotten crazy everywhere. I think I'm going to have to stop reading the news.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Of the five killed one was a teenage boy and one was a women. :eyeroll:


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

This is the most assinine story I have ever heard! Give him the chair ! :eyeroll:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

The thing is they did the right thing asking him to leave, they didnt tell him to dance and shoot at his feet, they didn't yank him out. Its sad these days when to ask someone to get off your property you have to wear a bullet proof vest and have your buddy in the brush for cover.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Okay can someone clarify what a Hmong is? Are they asians in general or what? Been around the world and never heard the term till I got here when you all were talking about all the whitefish poachers. Please clarify.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Someone on the radio today put them from Cambodia or S. Veitnam.

Regardless, this piece of dog crap needs to be dealt with. He single handed totally disgraced one of Americas most revered events, deer season! Hopefully this a capital offence and the feds will get involved. :eyeroll:


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

If it was me I would suggest they peg him to a wall and through darts at his nut sack!! Just my 2 cents!


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Your to kind Chopper!! :sniper: :strapped: :bop: :idiot: :dead: :splat: dd:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"Okay can someone clarify what a Hmong is?"

I think it was supposed to be mong, as in mongol.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

I was told that the Hmong were also involved with that 33 some illegal deer by Jamestown, Or is this a rumor??


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

I googled this guy(Vang) and (Wisconsin shooting) and found out he was charged with other crimes in the past and also charged with over the possesion limit of fish in 2001.


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

According to what I found on the net Hmong are from Laos.


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

How old was this guy? Possible war flashbacks? Not an excuse but a possibility?


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## mallardhunter (May 15, 2004)

That could be possible but I doubt it.


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Hey chops He is 36. His name is Chai Vang...Type in the name on google youll find a lot about him.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Militant_Tiger said:


> I think it was supposed to be mong, as in mongol.


No, it is Hmong.

http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book= ... &x=14&y=15

Cambodia should also be in the geographic range listed.

There's a huge community of them in St. Paul, biggest in the country. And like Goldy said there's thousand more on the way. :eyeroll:


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## eskay (Aug 21, 2004)

If you want to know more about this tragedy, I've posted details in the hot topics trepass thread. I live in Rice Lake where the victims are from and know most of them, and was in the woods about 10 miles away when this happened.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

The Hmong are a Laotian tribe who were supposed to have been helpful to our cause in SE Asia during the "police action" of the 60's and 70's. They have a favorable immigration status as a result of their supposed "help". As do most immigrant asians, they maintain a close-knit community in the twin-cities. It appears they have whacko's in their group as does every other element of society. All in all, a very sad thing to have happened to our brother sportsmen. To have the media calling this murderer a hunter ****** me off to no end. I wish they would bring back public hanging just for this type of incident. After a proper trial, of course. Burl


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

The "unethical" reputation the Hmong have was bad enough even before this tragedy. Talk around this area is always the same old sh!t. They take out of the woods or lakes whatever they want and when the wardens would by chance catch them they can't even comunicate with them. The wardens are from what I hear starting to have less tolerance with them lately but for years they got away with a ton of violations. State land is pretty much over run with Hmong and if a Hmong gets permission at all on private land they are known for bringing out 30 family, tribe, group, whatever the F--- members with them the next day. Yeah I'm pretty pumped about thousands more on the way.


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## STEVE ERWIN (Dec 7, 2004)

*POST REMOVED BY ADMIN*

NO PROFANITY!


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

:roll:


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## zdosch (Aug 31, 2003)

An SKS may be considered a deer rifle by few but having a 40 round-mag is just insane!!!! By no means should any "hunter" have a 40 round-clip while deer hunting, if your really that bad of shot maybe you should just shoot yourself!! :beer: 
This guy should get his damn nut sack cut off(two victims killed) then shoot him in the knee caps(two more victims killed) elbows(two more victims killed) and finally cut his tounge off so he can't make up anymore dam stories(for the two injured) then let him suffer till he dies..... :jammin: :jammin: 
May seem a bit harsh but you just gotta do whatchya gotta do!!!

Zach


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## WARDEN247 (Sep 7, 2004)

My wife is now conviced she is not going to deer hunt in the future. Doesn't want to get shot. She is plain scared!! Man this sucks as we have always had a good time during the deer hunting season.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Gee Zach, why don't you tell us how you really feel.

Actually I am in agreement with you.
I also think that the guys (regardless of nationality) that come to Devils Lake and get caught with too many White Bass should have one shoved up there arse and then ripped out. Call it dorsal fin punishment.

cootkiller


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## zdosch (Aug 31, 2003)

I don't care if that guy was white, black, hispanic, asian, mexican, indian, it doesn't matter; what he did was just sick and now everybody from the victim's families to WARDEN247's wife is feeling it and from what I said in my earlier post that is just a small portion of pain, of what everybody felt when they heard about this tragic event. Even just cutting his f'n balls off and let him suffer for days upon days in a cardboard box would do it for me, just because I want to see that P.O.S. suffer and die!!!!!!! :******:

(I get very angry when crap like this happens cause there is no reason for it!!!)
Zach


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?pa ... =D8CBFA382

Vang ruled competent to stand trial

The Associated Press - Thursday, September 01, 2005
HAYWARD, Wis.

A judge has ruled the Minnesota man accused of killing six Wisconsin deer hunters is mentally competent to proceed with his trial.

Judge Norman Yackel issued a written ruling after reviewing a psychiatric report on Chai (CHEYE) Vang.

Defense attorneys earlier told the court they didn't plan to pursue a plea of mental disease or defect.

The 36-year-old truck driver from St. Paul will be tried on six counts of first-degree intentional homicide and three counts of attempted homicide.

Prosecutors say he opened fire on a hunting party in the woods near Exeland, Wisconsin, last fall after some hunters confronted him for trespassing on their property. Vang says he acted in self-defense.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Another story from Mpls Star Trib:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/467/5590335.html

Benelli


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?pa ... =D8CG5G5G1

Town residents, Hmong brace as trial starts in hunting deaths

The Associated Press - Thursday, September 08, 2005
RICE LAKE, Wis.

Residents of this town of 8,300 in the Wisconsin woods worry the murder trial that began Thursday will reopen old wounds about the fatal shooting of six deer hunters last fall.

Jury selection began Thursday in the trial of Chai Soua Vang, 36, a St. Paul, Minn., man who is charged with six counts of murder and two counts of attempted murder in the deaths of the hunters last November in northwestern Wisconsin. He faces a life sentence if convicted.

"I think everybody wants to get this over with and get on with life," Gary Haus, an electrical lineman, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis on Wednesday.

"People aren't talking about it much now, they're not so-called angry, and they won't become angry - unless this guy gets anything but a life sentence."

Many area residents are dreading the flashback they will inevitably have during the trial, said Sandy Robarge, a board member of the building association that broke ground Aug. 1 for a memorial park - a monument to the dead hunters - expected to be completed this fall.

"The community had been doing a little bit better, but now that the trial talk is on again, everybody's spirits are back down," Robarge said.

Meanwhile, some Hmong leaders in the Twin Cities worry about how the trial will affect the public's perception of the estimated 100,000 Hmong who live in Minnesota and Wisconsin.

"The entire Hmong community will be on trial, not just Chai Vang," said Vangyee Yang, the Hmong Outreach/Resettlement Coordinator at Neighborhood House in St. Paul.

Many arguments concerning this case have involved race; Vang is Hmong and all of the hunters were white.

In a letter to a Chicago Tribune reporter, Vang wrote from jail that he acted to "defend myself and my race." In court documents, Vang says the hunters confronted him after finding him in their deer stand and says the group surrounded him, called him racial slurs and shot first.

Two witnesses who survived the shooting, however, told investigators that Vang shot first after he was told to leave the deer stand.

Haus bristles at the suggestion that the slain hunters may have made racially insensitive comments to trigger Vang's alleged onslaught.

"It's trespassing, that started this, not race," he said.

Jury selection was being held in Madison to draw from a more racially diverse pool than would be available in Sawyer County, where the trial will be held. Jurors will then go to Hayward, 285 miles away, for the rest of the trial.

This week, Rice Lake Mayor Larry Jarvela was quoted as saying, "The guy admitted he shot people in the back. Some people are upset that they are going to bring all the liberals up from Madison for the jury."

He later told the Star Tribune that he was actually paraphrasing the thoughts of a friend, "maybe the thoughts of a lot of people."

Yang is not alone in thinking the Hmong are going to face more intense scrutiny stemming from what happens in the courtroom.

"It's on everyone's mind, that's for sure," said Ilean Her, director of the Minnesota Council on Asian-Pacific Minnesotans. "We know that once the trial starts, the (Hmong) community will be back in the focus. People are bracing for that."

After the shootings, there were reported instances of vandalism and other attacks against Hmong in Wisconsin. Although things have quieted in recent months, Hmong people in Wisconsin and Minnesota say the atmosphere has changed.

"I can't read people's minds, but my impression is that I feel pressure toward the Hmong," said Chou Vang, director of the Eau Claire (Wis.) Area Hmong Mutual Assistance Association.

"In the Twin Cities I feel safe, but if I travel outside the Twin Cities, where there are no Hmong, I feel less safe," said Yang, of Neighborhood House. "I feel I could be a target."

Her and others said people wonder how balanced the trial will be. "Some people in the Hmong community wonder if he's going to get a fair trial," she said.


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## Gunny (Aug 18, 2005)

Y'all don't even know the half of it. I work at a firearms store in the cities that gets ALOT of forign traffic. 80% of the time I'm communicating with the 7 and 8 year old kids because Dad and Mom can't even speak english. The thing that REALLY gets me is that these forigners, that BARLEY speak english, don't even need to take a firearms saftey or hunter education class. They don't understand bag limits, hunters ethics, or property lines yet they can buy a high power hunting rifle. I don't understand it. How many times have hunters gotten into confrontations with other hunters? How many times have people been shot over a deer stand? This doesnt happen often. If a person understands that the ramifications of his/her actions can lead to jail time, possibly for ever, I would bet that person is more likley to think intelligently about the situation they are in.

Gunny


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Gunny

In Minnesota, anyone born after December 31, 1979 is required to have a hunter safety certificate to purchase a hunting license.

Are you speaking of persons who were born before December 31, 1979 or are you saying Hmong's are exempt form this law?


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?pa ... =D8CIRPS06

Survivor testifies about fatal shootings in the Sawyer County woods

The Associated Press - Monday, September 12, 2005
HAYWARD, Wis.

One of the two men who survived the shooting that took the lives of six fellow deer hunters testified today about the confrontation in the woods of Wisconsin last November.

Terry Willers told jurors that after he was shot in the neck, he couldn't move and thought he was going to die.

Willers confronted Chai (CHEYE) Vang November 21st after finding him in a tree stand on private property. Willers said he radioed Robert Crotteau who drove out to the woods on an A-T-V with other hunters and angrily accused Vang of trespassing.

After hunters told Vang they were going to report him to authorities, Willers says he saw Vang walk down a path, stop and take the gun off his shoulder.

Willers testified he also took his gun off his shoulder, but took cover behind a tree when he realized Vang was going to shoot. He says he took the safety off his gun, then heard a bullet whiz by, felt a burning and ripple in his body and realized he'd been hit.


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## cooter77 (Sep 30, 2003)

MossyMO said:


> Her and others said people wonder how balanced the trial will be. "Some people in the Hmong community wonder if he's going to get a fair trial," she said.


The sad part is that if he does not get off he will appeal immediatlely and say it was an unfair trial. BS!!!! He admitted to it!!!!! Lock him up and throw away the key or better yet sell back tags for a special season. I'll be the first to buy one!!


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?pa ... =D8CK74PO5

Hunter: Vang seemed nervous but polite 
By ROBERT IMRIE Associated Press Writer 
The Associated Press - Wednesday, September 14, 2005
HAYWARD, Wis.

Shortly after eight hunters were shot in northwestern Wisconsin, the man accused of murdering six of them walked up to another hunter and politely asked for directions, though he seemed nervous and in a hurry, the hunter testified Wednesday.

Daryl Gass said he heard about 15 shots over 10 minutes some 500 yards from his tree stand around noon Nov. 21 and expected to see fleeing deer headed his way.

Gass said he heard a noise, looked behind him and saw a man wearing camouflage, instead of the usual hunter blaze orange, carrying a gun and a backpack.

"He mentioned he was lost and needed help," Gass testified, identifying the man as Chai Soua Vang.

Gass said he gave Vang directions to a logging road that would lead him out of the woods. Vang apologized for interrupting his hunting and walked on, Gass said.

"He was very polite," Gass testified. "But he seemed a little nervous. I just assumed that was because he was lost. ... When he left, he was making some time but he wasn't running."

Gass said he radioed his 19-year-old son, Eric, who was hunting nearby, and warned him that Vang was walking his way and not to mistake him for a deer. The son testified he watched Vang reach the logging road and walk on it for a bit before turning into the woods again.

Daryl Gass was apparently the first person to encounter Vang after the shootings that left six dead and two wounded in some isolated Sawyer County woods. Vang and the hunters got into a confrontation after they found Vang in a tree stand on their private property.

Vang says he acted in self-defense after someone shot at him first. Vang's attorney, Steven Kohn, has told jurors Vang, a deer hunter since 1992, came under a verbal attack from the hunters who used profanities and racial slurs, and Vang felt frightened and under siege.

But the two hunters wounded in the shooting have testified Vang fired first, and one of them returned one shot.

Vang, a 36-year-old Hmong immigrant from St. Paul, Minn., is charged with six counts of first-degree murder and three counts of attempted murder. Vang, who was expected to testify Thursday, faces mandatory life in prison if convicted.

Another hunter, Walter Cieslak, testified Wednesday he was loading gear on an all-terrain vehicle to drive out of the woods around 4:30 p.m. that day when he heard a noise that startled him. He said he turned and saw Vang.

"He said, 'I'm sorry. I didn't mean to scare you,'" Cieslak said. "He said he was lost and asked if I had a map."

Cieslak offered Vang a ride on his ATV, and they drove about eight minutes to Cieslak's pickup truck, he said. When they got there, Cieslak said he was surprised to see some unfamiliar people.

"I said, 'This guy is lost. Is there anyone who can help him?'" Cieslak said.

State Department of Natural Resources warden Jeremy Peery was there and realized Vang may be the suspect in the shootings, Cieslak said. The warden pulled his gun, demanded Vang put down his rifle and arrested him, Cieslak said.

Cieslak said he spent 15 minutes with Vang as darkness started to set in. Asked to describe Vang's demeanor, Cieslak called it "very calm."

Cieslak and the Gasses were among five people who testified Wednesday morning for the prosecution. The defense did not cross-examine any of them.

A gun expert testified Wednesday the Russian-made rifle used in the shootings could hold 10 cartridges and be fired as quickly as four times a second. William Newhouse of the state crime laboratory held the 7.62 mm semiautomatic rifle before the jury and pulled the trigger once.

Newhouse said 14 shells that investigators recovered from the woods were fired from Vang's black hunting rifle. His testimony suggested Vang had to reload his gun once.

In questioning Newhouse, Assistant Attorney General Roy Korte suggested that Vang, in taking the scope off his gun, made it easier for him to shoot the hunters.

"It is difficult to aim the gun at something close with a telescopic sight on the gun," Newhouse said.

Two hunters wounded in the shooting, Terry Willers and Lauren Hesebeck, have testified Vang was standing 25 to 30 yards from their group when he started shooting.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

I read the star-trib articles this morning and they sent chills up my spine! it has got to be tough on the survivors!

Bob


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Its got to be tough on the survivors to have to relive that day so many times on the stand.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?pa ... =D8CKA7SG3

Jailer reads letter Vang sent to reporter about shootings 
By ROBERT IMRIE Associated Press Writer 
The Associated Press - Wednesday, September 14, 2005
HAYWARD, Wis.

Jurors in the trial of a man accused of killing six deer hunters were read a letter Wednesday that the man wrote from jail telling a newspaper reporter he shot the hunters last fall after one of them fired first and missed.

Chai Soua Vang told a Chicago Tribune reporter in a letter that a hunter, who now has been identified as Robert Crotteau, yelled at him, used repeated profanity and racial slurs, and threatened him Nov. 21 if he ever returned to the private land in some isolated Sawyer County woods.

Vang, who is a Hmong immigrant, wrote Crotteau went behind him, flipped over his hunting tag and said he would report him for trespassing, according to the March 8 letter read to jurors by Sawyer County jail administrator Curt Barthel.

Crotteau's 20-year-old son, Joey, accused Vang of raising his middle finger at him, according to the letter.

"I said, 'No, I didn't say anything,'" Vang wrote.

The letter said Vang saw another hunter, Terry Willers, remove the gun from his shoulder. Vang crouched down and Willers fired one shot at him, Vang wrote.

Vang said he shot twice at Willers and saw hunters scramble toward their all-terrain vehicles. He wrote he thought they were getting guns "to shoot me."

Vang wrote he shot some of the hunters near the ATVs and at least two others as they ran away.

Vang wrote in the letter, "I have done something to defend myself and my race."

Willers survived a neck wound. Killed were the Crotteaus, Willers' daughter Jessica, Al Laski, Dennis Drew and Mark Roidt.

Willers and the other hunter wounded in the shootings, Lauren Hesebeck, testified earlier in the trial that Vang shot at them first, and Hesebeck returned one shot after he already was wounded.

Vang and the hunters got into a confrontation after they found Vang in a tree stand on their private property.

Vang, a 36-year-old truck driver from St. Paul, Minn., is charged with six counts of first-degree murder and three counts of attempted murder. He faces mandatory life in prison if convicted.

Vang was expected to testify Thursday.

In earlier testimony Wednesday, Daryl Gass, who was hunting nearby that day, said he heard about 15 shots over 10 minutes some 500 yards from his tree stand around noon and expected to see fleeing deer headed his way.

Gass said he heard a noise, looked behind him and saw a man wearing camouflage, instead of the usual hunter blaze orange, carrying a gun and a backpack.

"He mentioned he was lost and needed help," Gass testified, identifying the man as Vang.

Gass said he gave Vang directions to a logging road that would lead him out of the woods. Vang apologized for interrupting his hunting and walked on, Gass said.

"He was very polite," Gass testified. "But he seemed a little nervous. I just assumed that was because he was lost. ... When he left, he was making some time but he wasn't running."

Gass was apparently the first person to encounter Vang after the shootings.

Another hunter, Walter Cieslak, testified Wednesday he was loading gear on an ATV to drive out of the woods around 4:30 p.m. when he heard a noise that startled him. He said he turned and saw Vang.

"He said, 'I'm sorry. I didn't mean to scare you,'" Cieslak said. "He said he was lost and asked if I had a map."

Cieslak drove Vang on his ATV for about eight minutes to Cieslak's pickup truck, Cieslak said. When they got there, state Department of Natural Resources warden Jeremy Peery was there and realized Vang may be the suspect in the shootings, Cieslak said. The warden pulled his gun, demanded Vang put down his rifle and arrested him, Cieslak said.

A gun expert testified the Russian-made rifle used in the shootings could hold 10 cartridges and be fired as quickly as four times a second. William Newhouse of the state crime laboratory said 14 shells recovered from the woods were fired from Vang's hunting rifle. His testimony suggested Vang had to reload his gun once.

In questioning Newhouse, Assistant Attorney General Roy Korte suggested that Vang, in taking the scope off his gun, made it easier for him to shoot the hunters.

Two hunters wounded in the shooting, Willers and Lauren Hesebeck, have testified Vang was standing 25 to 30 yards from their group when he started shooting.

Kelly Mills performed three of the autopsies on the victims and testified Robert Crotteau was shot once in the back, Al Laski was shot three times in the back and Jessica Willers was shot twice in the back.

Of those three, only a small amount of alcohol - the equivalent of one beer - was found in Robert Crotteau, said Mills, an assistant medical examiner in Ramsey County, Minn.

There was no testimony on the autopsies of the other three victims.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

This guy is obviously a real nut but I will say this.
The wisconsin gun deer season is confrontational even on public land. I hunted there every year from 62-2000 but I finally got tired of people wanting to argue about hunting spots on public land its not a pretty scene. The people that hunted out of our camp would have stands stolen or shot up, people try to bluff them into believing the land they were hunting on ( county and state land) was actaully private, people tampering with vehicles ect. 
There are so many deer in WI I never really understood this attitude between hunters. I think the true value of the hunt, comradery, spending time in nature ect. is lost today. Its all about getting "their" deer and the law and common decency be damned. Its a shame and a terrible idictment of hunters and their mentality today.


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## Ripline (Jan 10, 2003)

IT WAS ON PRIVATE LAND!!!!
ABSOLUTELT NO EXCUSE TO SHOOT PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!!

Bob,
The scenario's you describe are present EVERYWHERE there is hunting on Public land.
The Wisconsin Deer season is a family ritual. Schools close for deer hunting in this State. It falls just short of a religous holiday to most. What you describe is the exeption, NOT the norm!!!


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## Gunny (Aug 18, 2005)

MossyMO,

Sorry it took me so long to reply. Yes you are correct about the dates requireing Hunters Education. I was refurring to the older men and women. That said, I believe NO MATTER WHAT YOUR AGE, if you are new to a country you should be required to take a class that teaches laws and ethics. I'm not saying that forigners should'nt be allowed to hunt. I'm saying that they should know HOW to hunt in our country.

Gunny


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> The scenario's you describe are present EVERYWHERE there is hunting on Public land.
> The Wisconsin Deer season is a family ritual. Schools close for deer hunting in this State. It falls just short of a religous holiday to most. What you describe is the exeption, NOT the norm!!!


I was raised in Wisconsin and still have tons of family near Wapaca I know the score, and I beg to differ this does happen regularly on public land during the Wisconsin deer season and it gets worse every year. The guy I used to hunt with is a surveyor and a very large percentage of his business the rest of the year is a direct result of deer hunters squabbling about deer hunting land. Wisconsin gun deer hunter are the worst representatives of hunters anywhere I've ever hunted and I now hunt all over the country.



> The scenario's you describe are present EVERYWHERE there is hunting on Public land.


I have lived and deer hunted every year for the last 20 in Georgia on national forest land and haven't had this problem yet, not once.

IF you want to experience a quality Wisconsin public land deer hunt, go with a bow, their gun season is a mess.


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## Ripline (Jan 10, 2003)

I have hunted in the Nicolet National forest for thirty years and have yet to run into your situation. 
Bob, if Georgia is such a great place to hunt, why did you ever come to Wisconsin?? How many hunters does Georgia have?? We have over a million.
Stop spouting your BS. uke: The guy MURDERED those people, I don't give a SHI* what they did. Don't try to justify something based on your Waupaca experience.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

http://www.in-forum.com/ap/index.cfm?pa ... =D8CKQL680

Vang weeps after telling judge he will testify 
By ROBERT IMRIE Associated Press Writer 
The Associated Press - Thursday, September 15, 2005
HAYWARD, Wis.

A Hmong man accused of killing six deer hunters and wounding two others wept Thursday as he talked to family members after telling a judge he would testify in his murder trial.

For about two minutes, Chai Soua Vang spoke in his native language to family members seated behind him in the Sawyer County courtroom. It was the first time in the more than four days of his trial that Vang showed any emotion.

Tou Ger Xiong, an interpreter with Vang's family, said Vang made "just some personal comments for his family" and said the family did not want to get any more specific.

Vang, a truck driver from St. Paul, Minn., who came to the United States from Laos more than 20 years ago, was expected to testify Thursday afternoon.

Vang, 36, is charged with six counts of first-degree murder and three counts of attempted murder. The shootings occured Nov. 21 after a group of hunters confronted him after finding him in a tree stand on their private property in Sawyer County.

After the prosecution rested its case Thursday morning, Judge Norman Yackel denied a defense request to dismiss the charges. Yackel told jurors that testimony would conclude Thursday, with closing arguments next.

The final state witness, Michael McGee of the Ramsey County, Minn., Medical Examiner's Office, testified the youngest of the victims, 20-year-old Joey Crotteau, was shot four times in the back or side. The fourth shot, likely the fatal one, hit him in the shoulder and went into his head, he said.

Mark Roidt was shot once in the head and Dennis Drew was shot once in the lower chest, dying later at a hospital, McGee said.

Neither Roidt nor Crotteau had any alcohol or drugs in them, McGee said. Drew had drugs from his hospital stay that are routinely used following abdominal surgery.

In testimony Wednesday, Kelly Mills, who performed autopsies on the other three victims, said Robert Crotteau was shot once in the back, Al Laski was shot three times in the back and Jessica Willers was shot twice in the back.

Of the three, only a small amount of alcohol - the equivalent of one beer - was found in Robert Crotteau, said Mills, an assistant medical examiner in Ramsey County.

Other testimony Wednesday showed Vang told an investigator several of the hunters surrounded him after finding him trespassing in a tree stand, and one used a string of racial slurs against his Asian heritage.

Vang said he acted in self-defense after a shot was fired at him, according to Wednesday's testimony. He faces life in prison if convicted.

Vang's story, contradicted by two shooting survivors who testified earlier that Vang opened fire first, was presented to jurors in three ways - a jailhouse letter and a telephone call to a newspaper reporter, and his statements to police.

Defense lawyer Jonathon Smith, said the letter, tape and statements were "nothing more than a preview of what's to come."

Vang's statements gave the same account with one exception. In his initial version to law enforcement, he claimed the first hunter he confronted, Terry Willers, shot all the people, but sheriff's investigator Gary Gillis told Vang he knew that was bogus.

Gillis said Vang paused for a moment, "then stated it didn't happen that way."

Vang said he didn't know he was on private property when the other hunters surrounded him and an older man in the group used ethnic slurs, according to the statement. The two shooting survivors have said it was Robert Crotteau who angrily confronted Vang.

Vang said, "I was not trying to kill them, just self-defense," and wished it hadn't happened, the statement said. He said he reloaded once during the shootings and reversed his jacket from blaze orange to camouflage.

Afterward, he ran away and when he saw an airplane overhead he realized it was probably looking for him, the statement said. He said he decided to turn himself in, and he threw his remaining five or six bullets in a swamp because he didn't want to shoot anyone else.

Prosecutors also had jurors hear the tape of Vang's March 3 call to a Chicago Tribune reporter. He said he and four friends hunted in the Baldwin area the previous day but had no luck. On the day of the shootings, he said he got lost chasing a deer and was separated from his friends when he wound up in the tree stand.

Vang told the same reporter in a March 8 letter that a hunter, who has been identified as Crotteau, yelled at him and threatened him if he ever returned to the private land.

The letter said Vang saw another hunter, Willers, remove the gun from his shoulder. Vang crouched down and Willers fired one shot at him, Vang wrote.

Vang said he shot twice at Willers and saw hunters scramble toward their all-terrain vehicles. He wrote he thought they were getting guns "to shoot me." Vang wrote he shot some of the hunters near the ATVs and at least two others as they ran away.

Willers, who survived a neck wound, and the other hunter wounded in the shootings, Lauren Hesebeck, have testified that Vang shot at them first, and Hesebeck returned one shot after he already was wounded.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Vang: 3 hunters deserved to die 
Larry Oakes, Star Tribune 
September 16, 2005 VANG0916 
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HAYWARD, WIS. -- A courtroom full of people sat in stunned silence Thursday as Chai Soua Vang ended his murder trial with the bold declaration that some of the six deer hunters he killed deserved to die because they were disrespectful.

In a cross-examination that may devastate Vang's claim that he was acting in self-defense, he said landowner Robert Crotteau and his 20-year-old son, Joe, deserved what they got when Vang chased them down and fatally shot each in the back, though Vang acknowledged that neither was armed.

Robert Crotteau deserved to die "because he's the one who confronted me and called me names and that's just who he is," Vang testified, as members of Crotteau's family appeared tearful and stunned.

Joe Crotteau deserved to die " 'cause he accused me of giving him the finger and tried to cut in front of me," Vang said, after describing how the younger Crotteau blocked him from leaving as his father profanely berated Vang for trespassing on the family's hunting land.

Chai Soua VangJeffrey PhelpsAssociated PressAfter jurors had left the courtroom and Vang's mother, siblings and children were allowed to speak with him, Vang sank weeping to his knees while his family surrounded him and prayed with him in Hmong, Vang's native language.

But during more than three hours of testimony, Vang, 36, of St. Paul, showed little emotion or remorse over killing the six hunters and wounding two others last Nov. 21 on private hunting land in southern Sawyer County, Wis.

"I was scared," he said. "I was confused."

Vang continued: "I wished this was not happening. ... I did what I had to do to defend myself."

Vang maintained that he opened fire only after Terry Willers, who owned the property with Robert Crotteau, fired a shot toward Vang as he walked away following what he decribed as profanity-laced, racist tongue-lashing by Crotteau.

Willers and Lauren Hesebeck, the only two members of the group who survived, testified this week that Willers never shot at Vang or even pointed his gun toward him. They said Willers was the only member of the group who was armed. They acknowledged that Robert Crotteau yelled at Vang using the "f-word" and threatened to beat him up if he ever returned, but they said no one called Vang any racist names.

Defense attorney Steven Kohn told jurors as the trial got underway Saturday that they would see how the entire confrontation filled Vang with fear and forced him to act on instinct to defend himself -- a legal defense in murder cases.

But prosecutor Roy Korte told jurors that Vang was motivated more by anger over the way Crotteau treated him, and Crotteau's promise to report him to authorities for trespassing.

And during cross-examination Thursday by Wisconsin Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager, Vang appeared to play into the prosecution's hands.

When she confronted Vang with a recorded statement he gave in which he said some of the hunters deserved to die, Vang responded matter-of-factly that the statement was true.

Lautenschlager ran down the list of victims, saying each name and asking Vang which deserved to die. Vang said that three -- the Crotteaus for how they treated him and Allan Laski because he had a gun -- deserved to die.

Prosecution witnesses disputed that Laski had a gun when he and Willers' daughter, Jessica Willers, jumped on an ATV and rushed to the scene of the shootings after hearing victims call for help on two-way radios. Police found no gun or evidence of one near Laski's body, they testified.

Vang testified that he shot them both because Laski stopped the ATV near Vang and was holding a rifle, looking Vang's way. But he also acknowledged fatally shooting Jessica Willers.

"She didn't have a gun?" Lautenschlager asked.

"No," Vang replied.

"Is there a reason you shot her?"

"My sense is I just open fire before they shoot me," Vang replied.

Judge Norman Yackel told jurors Thursday that the case would be in their hands some time today after attorneys make their closing arguments.

After an emotional afternoon of testimony that left many courtroom spectators in tears, Vang's elderly mother, a Hmong immigrant who speaks little English, released a translated statement in which she offered condolences to the victims' families.

"I share your grief and will mourn your losses for the rest of my life," Sao Vang said in a statement read by Vang's daughter Kia Vang.

She also defended her son as a good person who helped his entire family adjust to a new country, and thanked the Hayward community -- especially the police -- for treating the family with compassion.

Only Chai Vang, Terry Willers and Lauren Hesebeck know exactly what happened that day in the woods, she said, "and they must live with that the rest of their lives."

"My hope is that in the end," God will render justice, she said. She ended with what she said were the words of her jailed son in a conversation with her the day before:

"All of this could have been prevented if we could only learn to respect one another."


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/12665810.htm

Vang guilty on all counts

BY BILL GARDNER

Pioneer Press

A jury today rejected the self-defense claims of Chai Soua Vang and found the St. Paul deer hunter guilty of the murder of six Wisconsin deer hunters and the attempted murder of two others during a confrontation at a deer stand in northwest Wisconsin last fall.

The Sawyer County Circuit Court jury deliberated 3 hours before declaring Chai Soua Vang, 36, guilty of six counts of first-degree intentional homicide and three counts of first-degree attempted homicide.

Chai Soua Vang showed no emotion as the verdict was read.

The convictions on first-degree intentional homicide bring a mandatory sentence of life in prison on each count.

Chai Soua Vang contended the members of the other hunting party cursed and threatened him during the confrontation and that he feared for his life.

But Wisconsin Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager, serving as lead counsel, told the jury that the defendant "ran after and pursued every hunter. That is not self-defense."


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I


> have hunted in the Nicolet National forest for thirty years and have yet to run into your situation.


Good for you, turn right off of C right past Jungle Jims go north on Parkway to Camp 5 road the left to Harpers I've killed a buck up there every year for the last 35 years we can't be hunting very far from each other, my experience has been one of continuing increases in hunter concentrations with the results I described above I'm glad you haven't experienced it.



> Bob, if Georgia is such a great place to hunt, why did you ever come to Wisconsin??


to hunt with old friends and family, Georgia is a good place to hunt but that was never my point, my point was people don't act all frustrated about hunting deer like they do in Wi. Probably because they have a 2 1/2 month long gun season and a 14 deer limit.



> Stop spouting your BS. The guy MURDERED those people, I don't give a SHI* what they did. Don't try to justify something based on your Waupaca experience.


You feel strongly about this? :lol: I guess its just my well known ultra liberal tendencies trying to find a way to "justify" murder.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> The guy MURDERED those people, I don't give a SHI* what they did.


You really should................. Vang got what he deserved. Unfortunately there is no death penalty and I think that is exactly what he should receive. But as brought out in court in one report, Vang was actually on his way out of the field after apologizing when the one owner named Crotteau arrived and started cursing the guy out and threaten to kick his *** if he returned. Granted it was no excuse by any stretch to start shooting but it sounds like if Crotteau hadn't been such a ******* that day the guy's wire would not have been tripped and six people would be alive today. One loud mouth and one crazy man, mix then together and a tragedy resulted............From all the reports I read I suspect Crotteau was the type of guy that probable didn't give a shi* either.


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## 870 XPRS (Mar 12, 2003)

It's a bunch of crap....nobody actually knows what happend and we all have our thoughts....but we still don't know. The guy probably did get verbally abused...he may even have gotten shot at. I think we all need to get one thing straight though, one wrong doesn't make 6 deaths and a couple injured. Even if he says what happned was right...if you were to get shot at, would you kill a man and then charge numerous men? The answer most likely is you wouldn't,,,you may shoot the one time, but you would get the hell out of there and run for your life. The story just sounds fishy to me...kinda a coincidence i said fishy in a story related to hmong people. But honestly,,,what do you think you would do?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> ...if you were to get shot at, would you kill a man


yep without question, no mercy.



> and then charge numerous men?


yes, if I thought they were going to get guns to shoot me.

Gohon nailed it, mix a abusive loudmouth and nut case with gun and you have volatile situation.

Vang should get the death penalty unfortunately good old Wisconsin is too enlightened for that :eyeroll: the average time served on life terms since 1980 in Wisconsin was 200 months, or 16 2/3 years. If hes a model prisoner he may be out by 2021. Those people he shot will still be dead.


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## M2user (Oct 12, 2005)

I find it very hard to believe that anybody, including those in the Hmong community would feel sorry for Vang especially after watching his testimony on Court TV. Even after 10 months, this guy was clearly angry. Last year on the 21st, Vang was disrespected. He was sweared at. He was threatened with bodily harm if he came back again. He was also going to be reported to the Warden. That probably put him over the top. With a warrant already out for his arrest for failing to pay an earlier trespassing fine, Vang decides he's going to take out the people he's mad at and make sure there are no witnesses. After the fire fight, he casually walks away, approaches another hunter and once again, claims he's lost and asks for directions. He's not afraid. Vang should be thanking the people of Wisconsin every day for the rest of his life. For if we had the death penalty, it is most certain he'd be on death row after his sentencing in November.


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