# Another Mass School Shooting



## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Should be a social, not political topic, but not an outdoor topic except for the firearm issue that ultimately wcould,affect us all, for better or worse.
I have no brilliant insights of how to even begin to lessen, much less eliminate the problem. I predict the backlash will be tremendous and denial of any problem or possible solutions won't cut it any more. No suggestions from me....


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The reports coming out is that he purchased the firearm legally and was 18 when he did it.

The only solution I can think of is the whole "mental health issue". Which is a huge slippery slope to go down. Because the reports show this person had mental issues, was kicked out of school, violent history, etc..... at the age of 19! But again I don't know how you can bridge the mental health issue and gun ownership. Because people wont get help who need it if they know they cant own a gun.... you got doctor client legal issues.... you got abuse that would happen with government officials... etc. So again it is a very hard topic. But everyone of these shooters has shown history of mental health issues and problems. So before anyone blames an object (ie: the gun) look at the root of the problem... mental health.

It is also our society doesn't like to "cause waves". So people don't report stuff and just brush off when they see disturbing behavior. I know I have told this story before that a continuing ed instructor told the class. It was of a guy who called in and complained every month and also threatened violence towards the company. Well a new hire didn't know about this guy and didn't do the same routine the others did. Well the guy snapped and came down and shot people. Again the company never reported this stuff to the proper authorities. They just brushed it off as "crazy carl". Like I said above all the shootings had indicators (granted people point them out after the fact). Just makes you think and for anyone reading this please report anything that seems unusual that you see. Just a call to the local authorities to just inform them of what you are seeing. it might be nothing at all or it might save someones life.

But like on another thread I posted about civility of the media.... well civility of our population is going down hill as well. Just look around.... so many examples out there to list here. I mean you see more people getting accolades for doing just everyday good things. I mean I read an article the other day about a guy helping a old neighbor do some construction work on his home. The paper and reporter couldn't believe that the person was kind hearted and helped.... Heck 20 years ago that is more of a social norm. I mean we are lucky to live in the Midwest where people help their neighbors. It is in our nature. But this is getting lost in our world now. People would rather ***** and moan and be isolated (until they get on social media).

Anyways... no real answers here for me as well.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

This is a good little article about Sessions talking about the mental health and warning signals.... and acting/preventing this stuff.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Huge problems with the mental health thing.
First of all, after this shooting, and I'm sure the next few, there's going to be thousands of kids reported to themFBI, like,that blogger did last fall about this kid. They won't have the resources to investigate, and even 8fmthey did, there are zero resources to treat them in any case, treatment, forgoing follow up, etc. Absolutely not possible, and it would take years to try to train even barely adequate numbes of mental health workers to even begin to,address the huge problem. And they are paid such a meager salary, and considering the crap,they take,,the dangers, .......we'll......don't hold your breath!
Heck, I can think of several kids that could be candidates for,this,kind of,thing. But remember, you are innocent till proven guilty. When I see and hear of 14-16 year old kids given free access to booze, guns bought by their parents for "protection" kicked out of school, on probation, misfits, etc. A room full of guns but parents denieing any mental health problems! What can you Do? Report? To whom, and how, and there's the ever present spectrum of having someone like this put the reported person high in the list of "take em outs!" 
Our whole society has become desensitized by violence, threats, etc. From video games, movies, all the in-your-face stuff on the internet, hate mongering, nasty sarcasm that the norm, etc. 
Not just kids, but cruise a bunch of websites, Chuck! How many websites do you see people who one would assume to be sensible reasonable God Fearing Americans making threats (yeah, but presumably joking) about shooting, say illegals baited across borders, (as I look out the window I can see 4-5 RIGHT NOW doing jobs Americans won't do, but that's beside the point) sniping them, claymore mines, etc!?! Check out a whole lot of shooting websites Chuck and you'll see what I meAn! A fascination with guns, a misfit kid, bullied perhaps, expelled, and BINGO! Lot of these kids astound, and hanging the Ten Commandments (which nobody ever follows any more anyway) in every school and courthouse is less effective than pissing on a forest fire. Or farting in a tornado! 
Nope, as I said before, Imhave no suggestions or solutions. I think we are all culpable as a society! No point pointing fingers that is going on right now! The rest of the world is aghast and kind of sorrowfully laughing at us! Again!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I predict in a couple of,weeks it'll be Republicans...business as usual....and Democrats...take every gun away....all the usual finger pointing Bullfeces, and things will settle down. 
And nothing positive will ever happen. Things have progressed too far. As usual, prevention might have been better and cheaper than trying to,find a non existent cure! 
Too bad the powers that be could get a few out of,the box thinking rational non political objective independents to for some kind of totally non partisan working group to at least examine the proble. 
I might remind everyone that even the Center for Disease Control,is,expressly forbidden to ever even thin,about looking at the proble,
. And hear the howl when docs and pediatricians try to,encourage keeping guns locked up,and out of curious children's grasp. Yet accidental kids deaths are what ..4 per day?.... not counting serious life long gunshot injuries.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Agree 100% on what you said. The whole innocent until proven guilty is correct. But to put someone on radar of others isn't proving guilt. But the problem is if people will follow thru or we as a society don't have funding or resources for that type of reaching out. It used to be pastors, ministers, priests, etc. We had school guidance counslers, helpers, etc. We had boy scout, girl scout, eagle scout leaders. We had other types of out reach groups. Yes some are still out there but their presence is less and less.

I also said the mental health issue is a slippery slope and agree 100% of what you said will happen. Parents wont want to do a damn thing so that their "kid" gets looked at differently. I totally understand that. Parents want to protect their children from the evils of society. They don't want them to be "different" from the social norm. I wish people could see how it is to have a brother with mental and physical handicaps. They could see that it isn't so bad and that if their child/sibling is needing help people are out there and it isn't a bad thing if they are. They can function in society and do a lot of things even with limited capabilities. Trust me I know.

Totally agree with the desensitized of our culture.... the internet, video games, movies, sarcasm people use daily, the idle/real threats, etc. Then accompany all of this with the lack culture of underage booze and drugs (prescription and illegal) usage.

Then also like you mentioned include the lack of a parental or authority figure to hand down some sort of discipline. OR the fact that our nations thinking is that you can never point the finger at yourself and think you did something wrong it is someone else's fault. My kid isn't doing well in school... it must be the teachers fault.... My kid isn't the starting QB... well it is the coaches fault. My kid got busted with pot... well it is only pot so who does that hurt. That type of thinking is out there among many people. Instead of discipline they just brush it off.

One of the issues is that we have taken away the power of people to hand out discipline... look at the schools. Teachers can barely raise their voices at students without getting sued or threatened about losing a job by parents. I know of teachers and paraprofessionals that have been physically attacked by students and they can only put hands up to keep from the attack. They cant be an aggressor. Others have to step in and stop it. It is crazy. If people don't believe me ask paraprofessionals how they have to handle stuff like that. One told me they cant have palms facing the kids but the back of hands when an attack happens.

You also hit the nail on the head when you talked about funding and pay grade for jobs to deal with mental handicap people, paraprofessionals in schools, teachers, etc. For the stuff they put up with and have to deal with... they should higher up on the pay grade.... yet they are not. We take funding away from them and cut costs at schools for them. But yet we can build brand new gyms, athletic fields, pay non school related coaches big bucks, etc. We could talk until we are blue in the face about this as well.

Then like you mentioned about people either using sarcasm or "joking" about the illegals or other stuff out there on the internet. Totally agree you think they are righteous people but yet they are to blame because they go off on tangents and spit hate on the internet or a website all because they have the autonomy of being behind a key board.

I also totally agree with you on the fact that it will be finger pointing by the decision makers and law makers. They will both go to extreme sides and then nothing will be done. One will say get ride of everything the other will say need to look deeper into mental health (already is being done... article I posted the link).... But then nothing will come of it. They will scream and stomp for about a month then let it blow away like a fart in the wind. Which is sad as hell.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

You are so right, Chuck! So many factors in society today that didn't exist back when most of us outdoorbloggers on here were kids! Where to start? Good 64 trillion dollar question! 
I get a kick out of surfing the threads on different websites. All you have mentioned are discussed, and a lot of finger pointing between groups. Pharmaceutical companies ( are antidepressant drugs the chicken or egg? Are kids disturbed because of OR in spite of the stuff? And on and on, but nobody has accurate answers, everyone has opinions, mostly based on NO accurate or scientific data or numbers. But who is doing research trying to find out why??? Who will pay for it?? Who would listen even if we paid qualified people to try to find accurate data out there. And with the anti science, anti data driven decision and conclusions attitude so prevalent out there, what can be accomplished? 
Sorry to sound so full of gloom and doom, but hoping my grandkids will graduate from school,and universities without dodging bullets, and then hoping they won't dodge bullets once they are adults.

Just tuned across Fox and CNN, both having reasonable discussions re 2nd amendment, lots of agreement on proposed fixes, some token, some possibly workable, but particularly FINANCING all the fix stuff everyone is supporting. Like one senator said, we are struggling with finances right now, defense, supposed tax reductions, infrastructure, another trillion or so in debt, etc. Trump Wall. Pointing out where will the money come from? We don't have money even to supposedly even kick out illegals (who are still working all day within sight of my window as I sit here, LOL think I'll run and hire a couple,to clean my windows! I'm too busy trying to figure out my income taxes,). And it would take years and years to even start a safety net of some kind for these kids. Hundreds of thousand kind of weird kids and adults out there, most well armed.
Yes, armed guards makes sense, but NOT as any permanent fix everything solution. Band aid at best.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Its all narrative crap.
Chicago will have close to 50 shootings this weekend, and yet you wont hear a peep.
But the Fake news media will push this to further their gun agenda.
Not to mention that the official story has more holes than Swiss Cheese...just sayin.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Witness Interview in Florida blows away the narrative.....as said, more holes than Swiss Cheese.
Another OP? Who knows...








> Disturbing Facts:
> When students were evacuated from the Parkland Florida high school, some thought it was part of the day's drill.
> 
> 1. An image posted online showed no one in a stretcher suspect Cruz was supposed to be in.
> ...


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Interesting, TK, but sounds like a plot for a novel. I'd think it would be hard to fool,every kid in school, every ambulance driver and police officer, fireman, teacher, every news service, etc.
But you are right, with all the Washington crap these days, who can anyone trust!?! 
Sure would be fertile grounds for novel crime/conspiracy writers though. I remember on another website a few years ago in a similar situation, someone suggesting that this sort of info would be a good basis for a conspiracy novel. I suggested that such a novel could be written both ways, with either sneaky Republicans or sneaky Democrats looking like the guilty party at different times during the book, back and forth, then a ringer at the end, finding someone or some totally different group the bad guys at the end. A kind of surprise ending! Guess what happened? I was called a Liberal,and a Libtard by several, not just one poster, for even suggesting that any supposed blame, even be temporarily pointed at any Republican conspirators. Never mind the hypothetical Dem conspirators were also temporary suspected, with both parties exonerated at the end and the bad guys brought to justice. Wow! Talk about narrow minded individuals, who probably had never read a book in their life! LOL. I thought it would be not a bad outline for some wannabe budding novel writer. I thought of this while reading John Grisham's latest whodunnit thriller "Camino Island!" Last night. Anyone else read Grisham?
Sorry, the above stuff was off topic, but it'll be interning to follow TK's info.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I suggested that such a novel could be written both ways, with either sneaky Republicans or sneaky Democrats


They are not that sneaky. They don't get much past you, or I, or most of the people on this site. However when you look at the average voter and how informed they are the democrats and republicans don't need to be sneaky. It's not that --- well the average voter is stupid, but when you add uninformed the average voter should stay home on election day. If I hear one more time get out and vote, it makes no difference how you vote, but vote. What a stupid *** statement.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

> Interesting, TK, but sounds like a plot for a novel. I'd think it would be hard to fool,every kid in school, every ambulance driver and police officer, fireman, teacher, every news service, etc.
> But you are right, with all the Washington crap these days, who can anyone trust!?!
> Sure would be fertile grounds for novel crime/conspiracy writers though. I remember on another website a few years ago in a similar situation, someone suggesting that this sort of info would be a good basis for a conspiracy novel. I suggested that such a novel could be written both ways, with either sneaky Republicans or sneaky Democrats looking like the guilty party at different times during the book, back and forth, then a ringer at the end, finding someone or some totally different group the bad guys at the end. A kind of surprise ending! Guess what happened? I was called a Liberal,and a Libtard by several, not just one poster, for even suggesting that any supposed blame, even be temporarily pointed at any Republican conspirators. Never mind the hypothetical Dem conspirators were also temporary suspected, with both parties exonerated at the end and the bad guys brought to justice. Wow! Talk about narrow minded individuals, who probably had never read a book in their life! LOL. I thought it would be not a bad outline for some wannabe budding novel writer. I thought of this while reading John Grisham's latest whodunnit thriller "Camino Island!" Last night. Anyone else read Grisham?
> Sorry, the above stuff was off topic, but it'll be interning to follow TK's info.


Drudge today reports the shooter took an UBER to achool! With an AR15? Im sure the driver was thrilled.

Multiple students confirmed a 2nd shooter. So Where is he?

Did you see the first video i linked with the girl saying she walked down the halls with the shooter? !

Videos from the scene?

Shooter drill that day scheduled in the school ironically.

Its all crap, I dont believe much of it at all.
Sheriff Scott Israel calls for Gun Control though. Oy gevalt.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I didn't understand the UBER ride to school,either? Unless he had his AR in a guitar case or something, like the kid in Washington? If any of us were a UBER driver and a weird looking kid wanted a ride to a school carrying an AR!?!?! A no brainer what we'd all so.....
Multiple gunshots!?! Who knows? In the confusion of the moment, some of,this,could be individual perceptions. 
The rest, I don't know.....haven't seen it. There's a lot of,stuff coming out about troll websites making up,a,lot of,stuff, like,that he was in some,white supremacist group,etc. Supposedly now not,thought to be true, etc. 
BTW, where do you buy smoke bombs? From a firecracker company or are these military type smoke grenades the talking head on TV refer to!?! More BS?
It'll take time for,the truth to,come out, but I suspect he'll be found to be a loner kid, probably FAE, bullied, infatuated with violence, guns, filled with hate, a misfit, obvious psychiatric problems (I'm betting FAE from his pictures) fell thru the cracks. Heck, there are nothing but cracks......


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I am not a conspiracy type person. But to show how politics play into everything...

The day after the shooting that student had one very well thought out TV interview. Is he a student of the school or did someone prep him or give him that speech/interview responses? Look how fast they have mobilized for walk outs, sit ins, marches, etc.... Is this the students or some other group looking to further an agenda.

Also look how they are trying to smear the NRA because the kid was on the school shooting team that got a donation from them(which is a grant out there for every single shooting team in the country). The media tried to insinuate that the team was solely funded by the NRA. Which it got about a $7000K grant. Like I mentioned every shooting team can apply to get.

But we will just have see how the investigation turns out.

But one thing is more and more is coming out that the FBI among other law enforcement dropped the ball. Was this because of funding, man power, etc. that it slipped thru the cracks... maybe. But the warning signs were there.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

A couple good articles about how the system failed on this one.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mental ... id=DELLDHP

This next article is total "click bait".... because it doesn't really talk about the actual purchase...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-de ... id=DELLDHP

But it all shows you that systems are in place. But like talked about earlier is that funding, qualification/expertise, pay grade, etc. might not be there to fully help these agencies.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Habitat Hugger said:


> I didn't understand the UBER ride to school,either? Unless he had his AR in a guitar case or something, like the kid in Washington? If any of us were a UBER driver and a weird looking kid wanted a ride to a school carrying an AR!?!?! A no brainer what we'd all so.....
> Multiple gunshots!?! Who knows? In the confusion of the moment, some of,this,could be individual perceptions.
> The rest, I don't know.....haven't seen it. There's a lot of,stuff coming out about troll websites making up,a,lot of,stuff, like,that he was in some,white supremacist group,etc. Supposedly now not,thought to be true, etc.
> BTW, where do you buy smoke bombs? From a firecracker company or are these military type smoke grenades the talking head on TV refer to!?! More BS?
> It'll take time for,the truth to,come out, but I suspect he'll be found to be a loner kid, probably FAE, bullied, infatuated with violence, guns, filled with hate, a misfit, obvious psychiatric problems (I'm betting FAE from his pictures) fell thru the cracks. Heck, there are nothing but cracks......


The Media was trolled, Cruz admitted he had a Jewish mother and was adopted.
Not a White Nationalist, Totally trolled the fake news. Good on them

A local government official claimed yesterday that the kids were actors bussed in to perform for the cameras.
Benjamin Kelly-District 63 Office



> Alex Leary
> @learyreports
> An aide to state Rep. Shawn Harrison, using state email, sent me this: "Both kids in the picture are not students here but actors that travel to various crisis when they happen." http://bit.ly/2EIDaGp


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I have also read an article that many of those kids are in the Drama Club and Also apart of the school broadcast new team. So those could be those very same pictures you are showing.

So still lots of information out there that is BS going both ways and also some accurate info that people are ignoring because they have to sift thru the BS.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Chuck Smith said:


> I have also read an article that many of those kids are in the Drama Club and Also apart of the school broadcast new team. So those could be those very same pictures you are showing.
> 
> So still lots of information out there that is BS going both ways and also some accurate info that people are ignoring because they have to sift thru the BS.


BS is right.
Here is the boy forgetting his lines...


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Here he is showing his true "colors". Truely disgusting!!!


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

*Youtube Removing Video of Parkland Student Who Claimed There Was Second Shooter
*
Fri, 02/23/2018

We upload a lot of content to our Youtube channel, hardly any of it is conspiratorial. Most of it is main stream news clips, either politics or finance. After the Parkland shooting there was a young girl who went to the high school who claimed she definitely thought there was a second shooter. She even claimed to have talked to the killer on the morning of the killings, which I felt was both interesting and compelling.

It was uploaded to the channel and received a good amount of traffic, maybe 10-15k views. I don't remember the exact amount.
No big deal right? 
Wrong, according to Youtube.

I just got an email from them this morning alerting me to the fact they removed the video from the platform and dinged my account with a "community strike", which isn't that big a deal -- as it only restricts my ability to live stream; but I think it's unfair and I am appealing their ruling because, as far as I can tell, she's a legit eyewitness of the events of the day and even if she was mistaken -- shouldn't her words be part of the public record? Are we simply going to clean the internet of all things that do not fit neatly with the accepted narrative?

In case you're wondering, the good folks over at Snopes already debunked the second shooter theory, citing this very interview as confusing and in tandem with the accepted narrative. Quite frankly, I don't know what they're talking about. The girl flatly stated she definitely thought there was a second shooter. There is nothing unclear or confusing about it.

Here is the interview, via Twitter.
https://twitter.com/KHOUSportsMatt/stat ... nd-shooter

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02- ... nd-shooter


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Listen to this reporter on 2nd shooter, from an eyewitness.
He says: "0:31 "We just spoke with a FORMER student Alexa Miednik..."?? !! Walked down the hall with the shooter...


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Admission from media and school there was to be an active shooter drill....'somehow' it turned real


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