# Unsuccessful call versus "Getting busted"



## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi,

As you might have noticed I am green to the bone. I wondered how I will know if I simply had no response to my call (fox busy eating another neighbors animal, neighbor being 1/2 mile away at the least) versus getting busted. Obviously, if something comes in, stares at me and takes off, I know I have been busted.

On the other hand, if I am calling, and nothing comes in, is there any way I can know that I might have been busted from the get-go (not a quiet enough approach, they smelled, saw, heard me) as opposed to just bad luck or unbelievable calls? I have had owls come at me when calling, so some customers buy what I am giving them, just not the right ones.

I know I am screwed either way, but I am trying to learn.

Thanks!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

jordanfax, you will call 30 years and still ask yourself that question. There might be people on here who think that is an easy question to answer, but then they may have only called five years. 

I have called since 1962, and thought I knew when I was busted, and when I didn't call successfully. It has been argued that you don't educate coyotes, and others say you do. I do know one thing, if they are not educated then I would call it conditioned. In areas where they are called often they hang up. We see the ones sitting out there at 400 or 500 yards watching us. What we don't see is the ones that come to 200, and watch us through a screening of brush. I don't know how often I have gotten up and seen a coyote for just a half second as he ducked out of sight. How many more just lay down flat and I never did see them.

The most interesting thing to happen in the last couple of years with me is getting our early in the morning and hearing someone else call. When I was younger I would be disappointed and move on.  Last winter I was retired and had more time. I often moved to a high point a mile away and sat in my pickup with a spotting scope. I did that five or six times. None of these times did anyone shoot a coyote, but twice coyotes came in and I could see the caller. He never lifted his rifle, never lifted binoculars, and after fifteen minutes got up and walked away. Both times the coyotes were screened by buck brush and simply sank to the ground as the caller got up to leave.

After watching that I think I have been wrong for years. I think I have called more successful than I thought, but was outsmarted at the goal line. This year I am going to shut up and not move for an additional ten minutes ( that would make 15 to 20). I don't know what will happen, but I can't wait to find out. Waiting 20 minutes after calling may sound like wasted time, but I need to find out if it is or not. After all how much time and gas do we spend getting to a spot?


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## Jaybic (Sep 8, 2005)

Hey fellas,

I have wondered that same thing many times and Plainsmen is right IMHO. You will call in coyotes that you never see and they will watch you walk away. I am no expert either but I have wondered that same thing many times. You call a perfect spot in perfect conditions and yet, nothing and you walk away just shaking your head that nothing came in. Better get used to it tho.

Plainsmen,

That is a very interesting idea you have staying on the stand. Are you going to try to keep records somehow of how it worked out?

Good luck,

Jaybic


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Are you going to try to keep records somehow of how it worked out?


You know I better do that. Lord knows my memory will not do.


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I am hunting at night, alone most of the time, so it seems like even more of a mystery. I thought I had a good stand and conditions last night, but in retrospect the only place I had to hide in the shadows did not give me a great view of everything I probably needed to see.

I got excited once and raised my gun because I got a glimse of a glowing eye. I was sitting there thinking, why am I only seeing one eye, is the other one hidden behind something? Duh, it was a darn rabbit. I am beginning to think I am spending to much time alone on these stands, lol.


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

don't over call this area, try a different location, maybe a mile away or so. Try a different sound, vari the speed of your call, vari the pitch. Experiment with all types of conditions. Try different times of day, or night. You might be calling where the critters are at 5 pm, then they move a mile away by 8 pm. Need to be flexible, watch the wind and be PATIENT, it will happen.


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

Thanks for the replies. I talked about this a bit on another topic, but I had one come in last night. I didn't have a good shot at it for several reasons, including the fact that my scope light decided that it was a good time to start fading out (Primos Varmint Hunter Scope Light - 100 yard Nightblaster compact). It was fully charged when I went out, but I have been surprised by the short amount of time it takes to die.

Anyway, this is what happened. I wasn't planning on going out, because it had gotten so windy earlier and it looked like it could get nasty. About 11:30 PM I noticed that the wind had died down quite a bit. My dog hates storms and started slinking aound like she always does before one comes so I thought if she thinks one is coming, perhaps the wild creatures think so too.

I snuck to my stand under cover the best I could, and sat under a tree with low branches. The wind was going from my right to my left. The gully that we suspect they hang out in was down to my right. I decided to try something different because I found a squirrel caller on clearance at the sporting goods store (hey, I'm on a budget) and I just don't feel confident with my cheap electronic callers.

I made up a litte drama of squirrel alert barks, followed by distress. I also had a decoy attached to a fishing line about 30 yards from me. This is where I screwed up. After about 10 minutes I saw something to my left, and I picked up my rifle. Yes, picked up my rifle instead of being ready to go. I had enough light to verify it was one of the foxes, but with all of my messing around it was starting to move away and I just didn't have a shot.

So this was a case of getting busted and not being prepared. I was just trying to do too many things, call, wiggle the decoy, look for eyes (I was using a night vision monocular instead of my rifle scope), which meant I had to put it down and pick up my gun. Just dumb novice mistakes, but I learned a ton and it helps to know I can actually call one under the right conditions.

I wonder if I can get a better battery pack for my scope light? Hunting alone I don't know any other options for spotting them. Holding a spot light would lead to the same sort of problems I had last night I imagine.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Plainsman

that is really something about what you witnessed with your spotting scope. Do you think your pickup on the high spot had any effect on the coyote stopping their approach to the call? If you had them in sight, they could have you pinpointed too. It's worth a thought.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Fallguy said:


> Plainsman
> 
> that is really something about what you witnessed with your spotting scope. Do you think your pickup on the high spot had any effect on the coyote stopping their approach to the call? If you had them in sight, they could have you pinpointed too. It's worth a thought.


I don't know, they never looked my direction. One came out of a wetland about an acre in size. It was in the middle of a barren field, between me and the caller. I had been sitting for maybe ten minutes (half a cup of hot coffee, a granola bar, and two cookies  ) when he came out, looked around, and trotted towards the caller in the valley towards the east (away from me). Actually I don't think that one was screened by brush, he was more in the open. I could not tell from where I was at it looked like he should be wide open to the caller and about 300 yards away. I think perhaps for the caller only the top of the coyotes head may have been visible. Maybe some residual field vegetation was hiding him. He was standing in sunflower stubble. The caller had gone down into the valley to far to see an approach coming from the west (other side of the Pipestem Valley), but from my vantage point at higher elevation I could see both of them completely.
It was as much fun as getting the coyote. Huntin1 and I have over the years had a lot of fun watching deer hunters from where we sit and hunt. It's unbelievable how close bucks are to some hunters and never seen. North of Jamestown (near Green Hill Farms) one day I told some hunters about a nice buck in CRP. They drove the narrow spot between two one row tree belts. That buck got up not ten yards behind one fellow and headed west. A truck on highway 281 hit and killed him. Nobody in that hunting group would believe me. They were ticked when I told them and would not believe there ever was a buck in the CRP.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

LOL thats great!


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

I went out again tonight and blew it again!! If you guys had to hunt anywhere around me you would hate me for educating the foxes.

I only went about a 1/4 mile of where I was the other night, and if you knew my area you might understand, or call me an idiot. These foxes hang around my area that has quite a few houses (we are on ten acre lots), many of which are empty due to the poor economy. Semi-rural ghost-town you might call it.

Anyway, I picked a spot under another tree and decided not to be as busy with things as I was the other night. However, I still brought my night vision minocular and a spot-light, along with my gun and scope light. About 10 minutes after the initial call, I saw what I thought were glowing eyes through the minocular, and picked up my gun. As soon as I turned on my scope light the SOB had crossed right in front of me and disappeared. I tried in vain to call it back but it was long gone.

I guess I am glad that only after a couple of weeks after choosing to take out these pests I have learned how to call well enough to get them coming in, but on the other hand it just sucks that I haven't fired a shot and they are getting wiser by my failed efforts. Any advice on how to get better would be appreciated!!


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

jordanfax
With your post and your unrentless pursuit of these critters I am drawen to your thread.

From my knowledge, at this time of the year, reproducing nor pup rearing should come into play. Right now should be focused on having a den to call home.

Probably a tough time to call with wildlife being abundant (too much to eat), from the scavengers they are, give them 20º's colder and we will be seeing more of them.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

MO

Nice seeing you on here again! Did you move?


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

Thanks for all of the replies. The weather here has changed dramatically in the last day or two. It has been hot, hot, hot and today is overcast and in the 50's, lows tonight will be in the mid 40s. How do you guys thinks the foxes will react? I will be out there to see,,,

Sometime this weekend my husband will be able to go out with me. Assuming I am doing the calling and he does the shooting, where should I be calling from in relation to where he will be sitting? So far the fox has come from downwind (as expected) and crosswind.

Wish us luck!


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## huntinND (May 1, 2008)

The fox should be more active with the cooler weather which is good. It is more comfortable for them to be active in cooler temps as you would expect. The shooter should be positioned down wind a ways from the caller in most cases. At night you probably don't have to be to far apart especially if the cover is fairly thick. Hopefully it works out tonight. Good Luck


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Fallguy
Thanks, moved the end of May, still working on the house and should be living in it before winter. So with the busy summer haven't had much internet time.


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

Hi Plainsman,

I was re-reading your post again. Maybe you should approach some of these guys and have them pay you to be their spotter, if you all have walkie talkies that would work for that situation. That would give them their coyotes and you some time to observe and have your coffee, cookies, and such. Then you could go on to your own spot. I can't imagine a nicer way to spend a morning, although fox is my current choice right now. I hear coyotes in my area too, but first things first.

I haven't gone out tonight yet. Hubby has to get up early tomorrow to go to the range and make sure our guns are still sighted correctly, and play with his friends amazing array of weapons (his friend doesn't hunt, but he sure likes guns).

Thanks again for all of the advice, this is a great forum. I have a guy out here (Colorado) that owns a place named Prairie Arms helping me too, he is great. His place seems more geared towards tactical guns and supplies, but he has loaned me a couple of things and volunteered to send some guys to come out and take care of my problem. I begged off, I am having too much fun trying to figure it out myself!

The way you share information here is great. I've even looked into the homemade caller. I am an engineering-type, but I am not sure anyone would leave me alone long enough to get it done. Plus I don't have a soldering iron and other basics I would need. If someone would like to make an extra one, I would be glad to pay for it (I would get my own MP3 player). The electronic callers look awesome, but I don't have the desire nor the budget to part with hundreds of dollars for one at this point. It sure would help to have a realistic remote controlled caller though with all the time I have to spend going out on my own. If someone would like to send me a message on what is the best for under $100 I would appreciated it.

Sorry so long, I guess I am a typical women, lol!


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

I have been trying to go out the past few nights, but the weather has not cooperated at all. I don't mind the colder nights, but the wind has been in the 20-30 mph range. I can put up with that too, but from everything I have read it would be wasted time.

The good news is that I am glad I didn't take a shot the past couple of opportunities. After my husband went to the range, he found that the sights were way off. There was a gunsmith there and he sighted it in perfectly. We are not sure why it was so far out of whack, we don't throw our guns around! The gunsmith mentioned getting a different mount and rings which we are looking into. He said it should be fine for now, but for the longterm we should make a change.

Our open sight gun is awesome, it is actually my .22. My husband gave it to me last year for my Birthday, even though I had no interest in getting a gun (clever guy, he just couldn't pass it up at Big R). I love my rifle, but I can't use the open scope by myself at night.

I hear everyone telling me a .22 is not enough, but we are talking pretty close range (less than 100 yards, probably closer to 50). I should be o.k., right?


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

come with me when I go out calling!

Tonight was finally calm, almost no wind, so I headed out with high hopes. There is an abandoned house not far from me and I found what I thought was a great spot between two trees. With the moon back, I had good visibility even without my spotlight, and I made sure I was not casting any shadows, noise, or smells.

I laid low for a bit after I got to my spot, just to make sure everything was settled down. I started calling with my rabbit distress, and about 7 minutes later, the dogs in the area all started going nuts. I was hoping that meant that something was on its way. I did a couple more calls, quieter this time, and then started with lip squeaks.

No fox, no eyes, no nothing, except I started hearing who, who, whooo all over the place. I kept my lip squeak up and the owl kept getting closer. Finally, and heard a creak from the abandoned house's roof, and looked up and saw a HUGE outline. I turned on my spotlight to have a look and I was just amazed, I didn't realize how huge the owls in my area were. I have a Maine **** cat and this thing was quite a bit larger. He wasn't bothered by the red light, just stared at me and keep hooting. This was a great horned owl which is common here (I had to look that up to make sure).

By the time I gave up and packed up for the walk back home, there were at least 4 owls carrying on. While it was cool to see one for the first time (I have heard them approach several times but never actually saw them), I am frustrated that I can only call them in and not the foxes.

Please, any ideas of what I am doing wrong?


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

If you got 4 owls to come in you are doing things right. I always tell myself if I call in a crow, owl, hawk, or even a magpie then I am making the correct sounds. Maybe the fox just weren't around that night. Nice job calling!


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

Thank you, that is very reassuring. I will just continue on. I have a new area that I want to try tonight if conditions look good, it is very near a dried up gulch. I might have a bit of trouble finding cover but I will figure something out.


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## jordanfax (Aug 29, 2008)

I haven't been out much at all over the past couple of weeks, we had a long string of very windy night that just did not seem promising so I restrained myself from pursuing the local foxes.

I started out last night by an abandoned building that seems like a perfect spot but has not produced for me. I kept thinking I was seeing something peaking at me but couldn't get a clear view.

I gave up there and walked back to my property. I sat down to try some of my hand calls while facing downhill towards the dry creek bed where I have always assumed the foxes hang out. I noticed that the wind had taken a complete shift and I was now calling downwind, which is opposite of what I usually do.

Within 5 minutes I saw THREE sets of glowing eyes coming out between and fence and an outbuild and spread out. Coyotes! That was the first time I have had this happen and it was really exciting! Of course there was nothing I could do. They were over 150 yards and I don't have the right kind of gun for coyotes. I just watched them for a minute and once they disappeared I snuck off hoping I didn't educate them for a coyote hunter.

So the foxes are still alluding me completely. Of course I was assuming they spent the night down in that creek bed, but that is probably wrong since there are coyotes down there. We know the foxes are still around because they have been sighted, but I am not sure were they are handing around at night.

One question, will foxes, coyotes, etc eyes glow red-orange with a red lens? Does anything out there show up as closer to white or yellow with the red lens?


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