# Votrex Viper vs Nikon Monarch



## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Ok, all you Vortex guys have seriously got me considering a Viper for my 22-250, 6.5-20x44 to be exact. I own a Monarch 4-16x42 that I have on my .308 and, for the money, can't beat it IMO. I have compared the Monarch and Viper mid day in the sun and couldn't see much of a difference at all in clarity or heat waves. Today (cloudy) I compared them again and the edge on higher power went to Viper, not by much though.

You guys that have Vipers, how would you rate them against a Monarch, especially in low light conditions? What about the mechanics; do they track well and hold zero? Nikon has proven mechanics, not sure about Vortex.

I've been stewing over this for awhile and keep waffling back and forth on my decision, depending on the day.

Thanks.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

they track, they hold zero, and the customer service is second to none. I am on the waiting list for a viper pst right now. if you have any questions just go to the hide and search or ask [email protected] or [email protected] a question they have answered every question on there. if i could pull it off i would have a razor right now but think my wife would probally beat me to death with it when she saw how much that cost


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I was told that they are both made in the same factory. I don't think that means much, but I would think that quality would be pretty similar. I was thinking about a Viper, but they just don't make one in the magnification range that I want. I think I'm going to be going with a Sightron SII Big Sky 4.5-14x44 to get what I want and from what I've read I don't think I'll be dissapointed. I have a 3-12x42 Monarch and its a great scope and I'd buy another one, no problem.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

the new viper pst coming out in june is a 4-16 x50 it will have matching reticle and turrets, illum ret, zero stops either ffp or sfp the ffp is a few hundred more. they are not made in the same factory the rumor is old and the guys from vortex have put that one to rest. here is the web site to check out the pst and even if there are any hicups with the new line they will be taken care of right away they have proven the vip warranty is just that.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

I've been reading up on the PST's. They sound like an excellent scope, but may be a little overkill on a 22-250. 

Some day, as my skills improve, I'll have to look into buying a "longer range" set up. My .308 isn't exactly a bench gun, weighing 6.25 lbs.

I've been doing a lot of reading on Snipers Hide too. I can't seem to find 1 bad thing about the Viper line of scopes, not one thing.

IF I buy a Viper, get it mounted on the rifle, and don't like it, I would imagine they aren't too hard to sell uh? My only concern with them is eye relief. They appeared, in hand, to be a little more touchy than the Monarch, which could cause some problems on a moving coyote.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

the guy to check with is scott at liberty optics call him and ask questions great help and he makes sure you are happy with what you order if not he will make sure that you are happy check out there web site. http://www.libertyoptics.com/index1.html


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Viper ordered.......I'll provide a review once I get it mounted and to the range.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Definately let us know what you think. I really like my Vipers, but I wish the new PSTs had been out when I ordered mine. Scott at Liberty is super to deal with, and will give you a no BS opinion on his products. Plus, he has the lowest prices I can find!!! I thought the Viper was superior to the Monarch, but I have never had a monarch on a rifle at the range to test them side by side in the same conditions.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

I have had my Viper for a couple weeks now. Impressed to say the least! $399 and lifetime warranty! How much did you pay for yours??


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

$400 from Midway.......I was going to order from Liberty Optics because Midway had the mil dot for $500 and the BDC for $400 the last time I checked.....I had to order some other stuff from Midway and checked on the scope at the time I was placing my order, and the mil dot was now priced at $400 so I just ordered it from there.

Should have the scope tomorrow, should have the gun on Thursday, and hopefuly this fricken weather shapes up so I can test her out this weekend. Got 20 rounds loaded up to test in her already.  I do things *** backwards apparently; buy the reloading equipment, components,reload some test rounds, and buy the scope, rings, and bases before I even order the rifle. Explain that thought process to me. :bop:


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Then I guess I did pretty good then, 399 included tax, mounting and boresighted


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Wow, looks like prices have dropped a bit since I bought mine July of last year! I think midway had the 6.5-20X44 for for some where in the $450-$500 range and the 6.5-20X50 was in the $550-$575 range. I just know the prices I paid were $50-$75 cheaper than any other place I could find at that time. Great scopes though!


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

saw the PST model in devils Lake last night,,,,,pretty sweet,,,,will have to order one for the new addition!


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Don't tell me Gerell's has one in stock?


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Just got one in a couple days ago


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Geez, had I known they were going to become that readily available this soon, I might have thought differently about my purchase.

How did the etched reticles look? Same glass in both scopes isn't it? What did they have on her for a price?


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

6-24x50 was $700,,,,also had a razor 5-20 that someone is putting on a 338 lapua,,,I think it was sold at $1900


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Hunter_58346 said:


> saw the PST model in devils Lake last night,,,,,pretty sweet,,,,will have to order one for the new addition![/quote
> 
> Would like to see pics as sam at vortex says that they are not in the vendors hands yet.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Well hi Vortex sales rep was there and left the scopes with him when he left,,,,,for what its worth


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

is it for sale or there just a demo model. if they let you do a box test and post some results and also would like to the know the usable adjustments for the turrets. Is it a moa/moa or mil/mil configuration and what reticle does it have would like the see some through camera pictures of the reticle. is it the sfp or the ffp model, the 4-16ffp mil/mil is coming to my stable of scopes when ever they start selling them. if you can review it you would be one of the first as the hide has not recieved one yet to review. Also is the illuminated reticle even and does the power adjust work smooth throught the whole range of power. Clicks on the turrets are the audilble and nice and crisp or is there and mushyness to them. I would also like to know if the zero stop is as advertised with the washer system that they are using. if they can be even half of what the razor is they are going to have the market in that price range with ffp scopes.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

I FINALLY got my Monarch and Viper to the range together, 2 times today; mid morning and late afternoon (low light). Thought they were pretty damn comparable in both situations. Eye relief sucks on the Vipers compared to the Monarchs, as well as the need to adjust the parallax (2 BIG negatives). With the Nikon, set her at 200, and it looks fine at 100 or 300. With the Viper, if you have it set at 100, and go to 200, you are way out of focus; not good for coyote hunting situations.

Heat waves were comparable in both scopes. The Viper, during mid day, may have a little better clarity on low powers, but not by much. The Nikon adjustments feel a little more "solid" to me, but I like the fact that I can see what power I'm on with the Viper, from behind the scope.

To zero the turrets on the Viper, it's a piece of cake. All you do is pull up on the knob, and turn. On the Monarch a little more work and finesse is required; not a big deal though.

For the money, the Viper is a good scope. My expectations might have been a little too high, and you usually know what happens, than, you become a little disappointed. I really thought the glass was going to be better. I read review after review how the glass is equal to Mark 4, or even a guys 4 Nightforce scopes.....BS.... IMO, the Viper is no better or no worse than a Monarch. With Vortex, I would imagine customer service is probably better, but have never had to use either, so can't comment for sure.

HOWEVER, if the PST has the same glass as the regular Viper, which I believe it is, I will not be buying one. For $900 or whatever they are, the glass IMO is crap. Might as well save up and at least buy a Mark 4, or save up a little more, and buy a NF.

I will probably not buy another Vortex, due to the crappy eye relief. I've heard their $2000 Razor HD also has an eye relief problem.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Scott and sam from vortex have both said it will have glass comparable to the razor the difference is in internals. which model of the monarch was it. With a 22-250 eye relief should not be a issue with any scope there is not enough recoil to worry about. If you are not happy call vortex they will make you happy. Once the pst hit the market i am sure there will plenty of feed back on them. Other than the one place in devils lake no one has any so it will be a little bit to get a review. Guessing they just had a viper and not a viper pst there that is why we have not had any reviews from them yet.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

I was comparing it to a 4-16x42 SF Mil Monarch....I wouldn't say I'm 100% unhappy with it, I mean it is damn decent for $400. But it did not live up to all the hype that's for sure, and fear the PST will be the same way. You're right, eye relief was not that big of a deal for me, hence why I'm going to keep it and give it a fair shot for a year, but my brother may think otherwise. He got scoped about 5 times with his 308, when he shot with the Butler Creek cap on. Take the cap off, no problem, but the damage is done already, you're going to be wondering if that scope is going to hit your eye everytime now, and that could affect the shot.

I'm anxious for the PST's to come out, and start hearing reviews on them. But I'm going to be a little more skeptical of the reviews this time, especially the ones that say this $900 scope is as good as a $2000 scope.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Some thing must be seriously wrong here. I had one of my vipers on a 7MM Mag and never got "scoped". There was plenty of relief. You shouldn't get scoped with a .308 ever any way! Might have do a little adjusting.


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## CoyoteBlitz (Apr 11, 2007)

soo after i read this i took a look at vortex's line up, pretty impressive i say. but how many here are vortex shooters? how well do they hold clarity through the variable range? and whats your opinion and a variable range? i was wanting at least a 40, preferably 44 or 50 mil obj to gather more light. am i thinking right here guys?, what else should i factor in?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Vortex rifle scopes aren't bad, for the money. But for the money, there's better options out there. I was just not to thrilled with them after looking through one "outside" the store setting at actual targets and all that good stuff.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

I am a Vortex Viper "shooter" and I will tell you they are the best in their price range. In my opinion of course! I have had the 6.5-20x44 and currently have the 6.5-20x50. The only bad thing I can say is the reticle wires are a little thick for my taste.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Savage,

Have you had any practical field time with Vortex spotting scopes???

Im having a "Favre moment" debating whether to pick one up, and whether I want the Nomad or Skyline. Ive only looked through em in the store (and once outside on a foggy, hazy day), so that didn't tell me much.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Sorry, No, actually the only Vortex products I have looked through are the two I own. I bought them off suggestions from some folks on another site. The only spotting scope I have ever had is a Barska. Boy, talk about a piece of junk!!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have six Nikons and a new 6.5X20 50mm Vortex Viper. The Viper after one day is headed by UPS back to the factory. I was impressed that they emailed me a UPS prepaid label. They were very confident they could fix it.

The problem was that on my Cooper that groups under .2 inches with other scopes this one groupled 1.75 inches. They think something is loose internally. Also, in my yard I have a yard stick screwed to a post at 50 yards. When I dial 20 inches at 50 yards the reticle should move ten inches, but it moves 11 inches. When I dial 40 inches the reticle should move 20 inches, but it moves 22 inches. That is 10% error. My Nikons show 5% error, and my Leupolds are on perfectly. I set this up to check a new Sightron a couple of years ago and that scope was also on perfectly.

I have six Nikons and couldn't complain until this last year. The first Monarch I bought for my new rifle had no numbers on the windage, so you never knew where you were. Then a dealer wanted me to try the BDC, but the reticle was so heavy that it blocked out everything but Tyrannosaurus Rex. The third one I tried had the paralax labeled backwards. I had to dial 800 yards to be in focus at 50, and dial 50 to be in focus at 800 yards. Since I have had some eye damage I like it labeled. I sent that scope back to Nikon after a phone conversation and included a letter describing very well what the problem was. The scope returned with a list of things they checked which did not include the parallax. It worked backwards just like it did when I sent it. Luckily Scheels is more reliable than Nikon and took it back. They can deal with their very poor customer service.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Spam post deleted by Plainsman


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Plainsman, I have been hearing a good number of people complaining about the same thing with their Vipers. I guess the word from Vortex is a "weak erector spring". Is that what you have heard? When I get a little time to sit at a bench I will do a bit of testing with mine and see how it goes.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I would have had my Vortex back from the factory in four days, but Federal Express lost the first one. They shipped another one and I had that two days later (yesterday). I mounted it and took it out today. Wind was gusting all the way from 20 to 34 while I was shooting. I am going to include a picture, but need to explain it because it looks bad.

The bottom three holes are an experimental load with 142 SMK. The upper right three shots was Lapua brass turned to .0145 with 140 Berger VLD and 49 gr R17. The upper left three shots was the same load, but the Lapua brass was turned to .0135 and I was not careful to shoot at the lowest wind speed.

Also, when I dial 20 inches with this scope I get 20.5 inches. That's slightly better than my Nikons, and slightly less accurate than my Leupold Mark4, but then the Leupold was $1250 not $459. Eye relief is good to 16X, but from 16X to 20X I notice a loss of about 1 inch eye relief. Well, I think it's an inch, maybe it's less.

Anyway, I thought I should let you know I was happy with the service. The scope is crystal clear, so I am happy with that too.

Oh, ya, the two shots I didn't mention are where the SMK hit in relation to the Bergers without moving the scope setting.

Later.


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## Jestam (Jul 27, 2018)

I apologize for the bump....just my two cents
Having looked through both and I'll agree the Zeiss is probably slightly better in the clarity of the scope. That said I don't own a single Zeiss as for the money the difference in glass isn't enough for me to put a bulkier scope on my hunting rifles. Leupolds are tough, have good enough glass to get the job done with smaller objectives, plus they come in a lighter more attractive package.

Getting back to the OP's original question. I just picked up a 2-7 Vortex Viper used with BDC reticle. I feel it is on par with the VX-II offered by Leupold so it would be slightly less quality than a Monarch on par with a Buckmasters. I'll let you know how the scope holds up over the next few months, I've killed a Weaver K4 and a 2-7 Micro Trac on my Savage 99 in .358 Win and these were the old tough as nails El Paso Weavers.


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## Daniel44114 (Oct 5, 2019)

I bought a 4-16 Monarch. Looking back now and after shooting a rifle with a comparable Vortex I honestly wish I would have went with the Vortex. Not saying that the Monarch is a bad scope, but I was really impressed with the Vortex I used. Might just be my eyes but I thought the vortex was crisper.

The flip up caps that come with the Monarch are OK. Not great but better than nothing. I couldnt use them because the bolt handle on my R700 would rub on the cap. I upgraded to the Butler Creek ones and barely have enough room to not rub.


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