# one pin to 40 yards?



## jason_n (Dec 30, 2006)

i saw a pse ad stating with one of their bows you only need one pin out to 40 yards is that a bit of a stretch? im still kinda a virgin to bow hunting which is why i ask, would their be any pros or cons to that being true?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Thats whats called stretching the truth.

#1-Youll never EVER achieve IBO speeds. IBO speed is obtained with a long draw (long power stroke), bare string, and relatively light arrow (by hunting standards).

#2-Im willing to bet even at IBO specs, their claim doesnt stand up.

I know a couple Monster shooters who are shooting asinine speeds, 340+ fps, and their only using one pin from about 14 to 37 yards.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

i'd say :bs:


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## jason_n (Dec 30, 2006)

thats what i thought, my lights out bear bow claims 300fps but the chrono only says 283.6 avg


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## ImpalaSSpeed96 (Aug 25, 2008)

Sure you can use one pin out to 40 yards... But you'll have to compensate over a foot!


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## cwa1104sab (Jun 4, 2006)

That's a reach I'd say...I use one for out to 30 yards but then I have another for past that and even my one pin I use I adjust a bit in my head. Like on a 15 yard shot I hold dead on but at 30 yards I'm at the top of the vitals expecting it to drop. Call me stupid but thats how I do it


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I remember reading a story about 20 years ago where a guy used two pins. He called it the near/far concept. His first pin was set at 20 yards, and his second pin was set at 40 yards. He aimed dead on for 10 and 20 yards, bracketed for 30 yards, held dead on for 40 yards, and put the 40 yard pin at the backline for 50 yards. He said it was fast and for him eliminated the possibility of mixing up pins.

One pin out to 40 may work if you put the pin at the bottom of the chest for 20, dead on for 30, and held near the backline for 40 yards. To use one pin without compensating on a ten inch kill zone you would have to be pushing around 450 fps (guesstimate).


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## ImpalaSSpeed96 (Aug 25, 2008)

Compensating is a sure way to failure. I learned last year on a decent Ohio buck. I made a mock scrape in my shooting lane, and everything fell in place. Buck stopped right on top of it, 18 yards. I had it in my head to just aim high w/ my 30 yard pin when he moved out a bit. Fact of the matter was my top pin was sighted in dead on at 15. But to 25 or so it was really the pin I needed to use. For whatever reason I felt compensating w/ my other pin would do what I wanted. Well it did sorta, it hit right where I was aiming w/ my top pin as he moved out to 21 yards. Had I used my top pin and just aimed at the lungs, dead deer on my wall. Ill go along w/ the 20/40 split for 30 but I'd rather have my 20/30/40 setup I have now. I may move my bottom pin out to 50 since moving out here though. I never recommend compensating farther. Your arrow drops to much to be able to compensate accurately. I shoot a fairly new bow and my arrow will drop a foot or more every 10 yards after 40. And I have a high IBO because I have an irregularly long draw length. I like having a pin for every spot Ill be shooting at personally. No room for failure if you know the distance you are shooting.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Compensating is a sure way to failure.


Now that I disagree with. You simply have to practice. If you used a 30 yard pin instead of your 15 you simply made a bad mistake. If you had practiced or known your trajectory better that would not have happened. With rifles we always compensate unless we have target turrets. Sure rifles shoot flatter, but with bows we compensate for 20 yards and rifles we often compensate for 200 yards or more so it really is a direct comparison.

At 30 yards bracketing with a 20 and 40 should work perfect. Bracketing is no different than putting the 20 yard on his back, or the 40 yard at the bottom of the chest. When I hold my 40 yard pin on my back yard 3D the 30 is on his back and the 50 is at the bottom of his chest. Like you I have a pin every ten yards after my 20, but I think I could pull every other pin and function well.

I don't use the near far concept, but if you get pins mixed up go out and give it a try on targets. I have used it shooting at 3D in the back yard, but didn't find it any advantage and prefer pins every ten yards.


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## szm69 (Apr 28, 2006)

I am a long time rifle shooter and I agree with plainsman. Practice is the key.

I have 30 - 50 - 70 yard pins.
I am 2 inches high using my 30 yard pin at 20 yds.

40 yrds is easy because my 30 and 50 are close enough together that I just split the difference and presto 40 yards. between 50 and 70 is a little tougher, but very doable.

I don't like many pins.

To each his own I guess.


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## ImpalaSSpeed96 (Aug 25, 2008)

One: Traditional bowhunters will have an edge in compensating on a sighted bow IMHO.

Two: You can't compenstate when you hunt in hardwoods. You have to be able to hit a hair. How many times will you teach a new shooter to just aim, which is what you do finding middle ground between two pins. I know you have been told at one point or another to pick a hair and aim for it. There will always be a time and place for compensating, I'm not saying that, but I wouldn't teach someone the practice of it.

I suppose I can see having a 15-30-50-70 yard setup out here. I am not used to being able to take a 70 yard shot. You would be cruicified if you ever spoke such things where I grew up hunting. So I suppose it could work. I would still prefer to have 10 yard increments up to 60 tho.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Sorry Impala, compensating just needs practice. I shoot pins set from 20-60 every ten yards. What am I doing shooting at 37 yards? Compensating. Im either aiming high with my 30, or low with my 40, whatever way you want to look at it.

Your example from last year is common. But it is what it is, you messed up. It happens.



ImpalaSSpeed96 said:


> Your arrow drops to much to be able to compensate accurately. I shoot a fairly new bow and my arrow will drop a foot or more every 10 yards after 40.


Ive you've practiced, you should know how much your arrow is dropping, and thus be able to "compensate" accordingly.


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## ImpalaSSpeed96 (Aug 25, 2008)

There isn't really any compensating w/ 10 yard pins. That is why I prefer to have 10 yard increments. What you shoot BBJ is exactly what setup I would prefer. Unfortunatley I need a new site since I can't add pins to mine. Looks like I might be doing what I don't want to and am preaching against this year lol.

For those 37 yard shots you speak of, this is what I do. Always shoot for the lungs. At 20 and below, most bows will hit the deer before it has a ton of time to react, barring the deer isn't already alert. Then you gotta aim heart. When they get out far enough to where they got some time to react, I still aim lungs. They don't react, arrow gets in the heart. They do and they get double lunged. I have been great since I picked up my new bow about 4 years back. I've actually only screwed up on one deer w/ that bow and it was that buck last year. I punched another one perfectly but he must have been quartering away more than I thought and only caught one lung. Never did find that buck. My biggest thing is I've never shot a good buck and I got buck fever last year. I didn't shake me but it clouded my judgement. Not sure what I'm gonna do this year if I get a 140 comin into me bein able to watch him w/ all this open space! I'm gonna be a wreck!


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

> Not sure what I'm gonna do this year if I get a 140 comin into me bein able to watch him w/ all this open space! I'm gonna be a wreck!


I think I'll be that way when I see a doe.

Thanks for all your great insight guys, I'm learning a ton this summer!


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## ImpalaSSpeed96 (Aug 25, 2008)

I get way more shook when I'm out to shoot a doe and one comes in then when I'm huntin a buck. Then again, the biggest buck i've ever shot, I couldn't stop my knees from knocking when I saw him. He spotted me, but couldn't resist the grunts and made a fatal mistake. The decent one I saw last year and jacked up on though I wasn't to bad. Thats what is great about huntin, can't duplicate that rush of adrenaline!


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

njsimonson said:


> > Not sure what I'm gonna do this year if I get a 140 comin into me bein able to watch him w/ all this open space! I'm gonna be a wreck!
> 
> 
> I think I'll be that way when I see a doe.
> ...


I'll never forget the first couple times when I started bow hunting. I had a doe and a couple fawns walk right under my tree stand. My heart just started pounding away to the point I couldn't catch my breath. I was really struggling. My legs and feet started shaking to the point where they were bouncing of the platform and alerting the deer. God damn awesome feeling!!!

Since then I've had my fair share of deer, bucks and does, pretty close. But I'm worried, and excited, that I'll react the same way as them first couple sits when a big shooter buck is within range. I can't wait!


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## Norm70 (Aug 26, 2005)

i have always went 20-40-60. i don't think i will ever shoot a deer at 60 but its fun to practice at. after that with the arrows i use it is half way in between for 30 and 50 works for me.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

20-40-60-70-80 is the set up I rock.

Gap shooting is very very accurate. On my other bow I have 20-40-60 You just have to know how to shoot that way!

It is much easier that way then with a long bow! :wink:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Speaking of longbow hunt4P&Y, I shot mine instead of my compound at Medora last week-end. Boy did I shoot like crap. The only shot I could brag about was thumping that Griz hiding behind the arrow collecting cedar limb. I took the longbow because after that rain I could just see my old carcass falling down and turning my Mathews into a mud ball. In the morning guys were crawling to the first two targets on their hands and knees. It dried fast though and was a nice shoot.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

Plainsman said:


> Speaking of longbow hunt4P&Y, I shot mine instead of my compound at Medora last week-end. Boy did I shoot like crap. The only shot I could brag about was thumping that Griz hiding behind the arrow collecting cedar limb. I took the longbow because after that rain I could just see my old carcass falling down and turning my Mathews into a mud ball. In the morning guys were crawling to the first two targets on their hands and knees. It dried fast though and was a nice shoot.


That would have been a fun shoot to go do!

I will still say a long bow is the most effective way to take a whitetail deer bow wise! Nothing is quicker to draw, faster to get on target, and lighter then a long bow! Lets face it not many of us shoot deer past 20 yards anyways!


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## Bernie P. (Sep 25, 2008)

barebackjack said:


> Thats whats called stretching the truth.
> 
> AKA That's whats called crapola :beer: .


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Bernie P. said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > Thats whats called stretching the truth.
> ...


Oh, I don't know. I agree with bbj. The fastest bows today will miss a deer if your aiming lower 1/3 for 35 yards and the deer is 40. I think bbj mentioned 37 yards. If you want to hit a two inch circle (pick a spot) with either your 30 or 40 yard pin you will have to compensate. I would bracket with my 30 and 40 putting me dead on at 35 and the two yards of drop would mean very little. However, the truth is I don't have a 35 yard pin so I am compensating. 
When I am not shooting a longbow I am shooting a Mathews that with light arrows is doing (crap I can't remember) somewhere around 280 fps. I like to set up at least 20 yards off the trail because I am less likely to be detected. I know, climb higher, but I have polyneuropathy in my feet and don't feel them, and often my right knee just drops me, so for the past ten years I have stayed out of tree stands. I shot one nice buck at eight yards while I was standing on the ground. Didn't have to compensate for him.  However, to get to the point I would guess that I compensate for 80% of my shots. Those darn deer just never cooperate and show up at 20, 30, 40, etc.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Compensation is key to "pinpoint" accuracy, especially on those "odd" ranges, and at longer ranges.

Even today highly efficient compounds, shooting near 300 fps start to drop quite dramaticaly around 40 yards. Just look at the the pin gap on most guys bows.

At 25 yards, if you bracket with your 20 and 30 yard pins, and the animal is actually 28 yards, or 23 its no big deal. But at 30, and more so at 40 and beyond, this becomes a big deal. This is where first and foremost, accurate range estimation, and #2, compensation come into play.

I shoot ALOT. I know what my rigs do at ranges out to 80 yards. And honestly, with practice it becomes second nature. My mind takes over and I really dont even realize im "compensating" for that 37 yard shot, or that 42 yard shot, so on so forth. That is, considering my range estimation is accurate.


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## goatboy (Dec 29, 2003)

If you have a fast bow say 280+ and you don't plan on any crazy long shots one pin can work very well. I also shoot allot and have a 20 yd range in my basement, shoot about 3 times a week all year long.
For many years I shot a single pin set at 35 yds, if you practice allot you get very used to where you have to aim at distances out to 50 yds.

Close shots I aimed for the heart area and long shots just a little higher, never did I aim over or under and had great success with that.
I never had to aim out of the vital area out to 50 is what I'm getting at I guess.
I now shoot an adjustable single pin and it also works well for what I need it for. But I also have a 7 pin black gold that I bolt on from time to time. My hunting rig is shooting a 380 gr arrow at 319 fps I will add.
Good luck this fall.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

> Compensating is a sure way to failure.


A bit of history.

The bow and arrow has been around since somewhere between 10,000 and 50,000 BC depending on which authority you check. Lets just say a hell of a long time.

The first documented use of a bow sight was in the 1930's. That's AD.

Hmmm, I wonder how all them other guys hit anything with a bow, since they didn't have sights.

More history? 


> 1520 AD - Henry VIII demonstrates his skill with the longbow at a summit meeting hosted by the French King, where he repeatedly shot into the centre of a target at a distance of 220 metres ( 240 yards ).


 240 yards, no sights, I wonder how he did that?

My guess is that these guys shot their bows a lot. They depended on them for food, clothing and protection. As such they knew how their bows reacted when "compensating" for different yardage.

Compensating can be very effective IF you put in the time and practice.

huntin1


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## birdog105 (Aug 23, 2008)

The PSE Omen is capable of 40 yds and 350+ FPS but thats really pushing it for shaft strength and possibly bow damage... My Bow Madness set at 67 lbs shoots to 29 yds without drop... and thats with Camo Epic 340's which is a really heavy shaft.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> My Bow Madness set at 67 lbs shoots to 29 yds without drop...


I have to get me one of those. Heck my 300 Winchester Magnum drops at 29 yards. Not much, but it drops.


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## birdog105 (Aug 23, 2008)

I'm not going to get into a physics debate, but I bet you can't measure the amount of drop there is in a factory loaded 300 Win shot to 29 yds compared to one shot 5 feet... but I get the point, and to be honest, yeah there is probably 3/4 inch give or take but I can't say I'm a good enough shot to notice the difference...


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

What are "pins"


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