# .204 or 22-250



## Gooseman678 (Nov 17, 2003)

Im looking to get a varmit gun. I have shot a .204 alot and love the gun and how it shoots but it would also be nice to have a 22-250 so its legal to shoot a dear with. anyone have any advice if a 22-250 will perform like the .204 has for me. I often like shooting around 400-500 yards ( not at dear, but yots and such.) will a 22-250 reach out there and have superior accuracy at those long ranges? any info would help, thanxs


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## NECoyoteHunter (Jun 13, 2006)

Although a .22-250 may be a legal deer rifle with certain cartridges, it certainly is not an effective rifle to use when compared to .243s or larger. Please don't risk wounding a deer and consider using a larger caliber for deer hunting.

As for the .22-250 being a varmint rifle, I own one and it is easily my most favorite rifle. . . . . . however, I pull out the .243 or .30-06 when deer season rolls around.

Chris


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

I have killed more deer with my 222 than I have with my 300 Win. Mag. Bullet placement...... :wink:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

oh yeah, 22-250 hands down


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

I had a .222 never killed a deer with it when tryed...I have killed more deer stone dead with my .300 then any other gun. A .22-250 is a nice gun its fast and can reach out long range for varmints. But its hard to find factory loads that can be used for deer. Varmint loads will just bruze a deer and most times not even penitrate the skin. A .243 can reach a speed almost of a 22-250 but can use a 100 grain bullet for deer. I got rid of my .222 and got a 25-06. The varmint rounds can travel at good speeds from factory but I have several loads I can get for deer. Look on the federal site and winchester site and look up the different loads and study their speed and impact. The .222 I had was worthless unless you were 30 yards or closer to the deer for the bullet to penitrate. Now a .22-250 has massive speed and is a very good varmint gun out to and over 600 yards but its deer killing ability is very low but now as low as a .222, unless it was tied down.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Invector, with all due respect, there are so many inaccuracies with your last post that I really don't think I have the energy to respond. Will someone please do it for me. I'll buy you a beer sometime! Thanks.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I say get the 22-250. You will not be sad with it unless your gun just does not shoot. It does shoot fast and I have not seen one that does not shoot well. I am sure there are some of them out there but I have not seen one.

You can use it on deer and deer sized critters. You do not need a belted mag or a ultra mag something to kill today's modern smaller deer. Heck you can wound a deer just as easy with a 300 Win Mag as you can a 22-250. Like Jiffy said "bullet placement". There is nothing wrong with using lighter bullets heck I have shot my fair share of deer with a 223 and 55gr soft points. These were not the bad a-- ones either just plain soft points that at the time I was using for PD. If you load your own I would suggest using a better bullet than what I was using.

Side note I personally feel that if you are not comfortable with your gun and do not have much experience hunting, use a bigger gun as it affords a little more leeway in shot placement.

If you get one you will have to keep us informed as to what you get and how well it shoots.

As a young lad, Chuck Norris' parents warned him of household toxins that little Chuck should avoid. Proving his superior wit and strength, Chuch then shattered a thermometer and drank the mercury, ate a handful of lead-filled paint chips, and chased it all down with a shot of Clorox. Disappointed in his parents, Chuck roundhoused his dad, and then ripped off his mother's left hand and ***** slapped her with it. How dare they patronize Chuck Norris!


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Jiffy said:


> Invector, with all due respect, there are so many inaccuracies with your last post that I really don't think I have the energy to respond. Will someone please do it for me. I'll buy you a beer sometime! Thanks.


HOW??? I posted from my own experiance. And uke: on your respect


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

error


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Gooseman678 said:


> Im looking to get a varmit gun. I have shot a .204 alot and love the gun and how it shoots but it would also be nice to have a 22-250 so its legal to shoot a dear with. anyone have any advice if a 22-250 will perform like the .204 has for me. I often like shooting around 400-500 yards ( not at dear, but yots and such.) will a 22-250 reach out there and have superior accuracy at those long ranges? any info would help, thanxs


Back to the original post, Accuracy at long range has lots of variables involved, not the least of which are the individual rifle, choosen ammo and the shooter's ability regardless of what is stamped on the head of the cartridge.

While I have never shot a .204 Ruger for accuracy or hunting I have chronographed a buddies so I could make up a Ballistics Chart for him. Furthermore from what I gather the lighter bullets in the .204 are not the preferred choice for putting a Coyote down. With that said, a typical 39 to 40gr. Bullet from the .204 Ruger is moving out only slightly faster than a typical 55gr. Bullet from a .22-250.

For the .204 Ruger a 39gr. Sierra Blitzking has a Ballistic Coefficient of .287 while a 40gr. Hornady V-MAX has a Ballistic Coefficient of .275. A 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip for the .22-250 Remington has a Ballistic Coefficient of .267.

Now my buddy with the T/C Encore in .204 Ruger is shooting The Hunting Shack Ammo with the 39gr. Sierra Blitzking Bullet. This ammo has a published muzzle velocity of 3750 FPS, while this ammo in my buddies T/C Encore actually chronographed 3775 FPS.

On the other side of the coin I load 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips for another buddies 22" Remington Model 700 LVSF. We are using Hodgdon's Varget Powder for a muzzle velocity of 3650 FPS.

Now given that the .204 has a muzzle velocity of 3775 FPS and a Ballistic Coefficient of .287, and the .22-250 has a muzzle velocity of 3650 FPS and a Ballistic Coefficient of .267, it should be obvious that the .204 Load is going to have slightly more retained velocity at longer ranges, and a slightly flatter trajectory, but will have slightly less Energy due to the lighter weight of the bullet.

Now to the .22 caliber centerfires for the taking of Whitetail Deer. NO it is not for everyone. If you do not think the cartridges / bore diameter / bullets are up to the task then by all means do not use one. On the other hand there are hundreds of Whitetails killed every year in the Dakota's that do not know the .22 centerfires, their bore diameter and their bullets are not capable of the task. Is the taking of Whitetail Deer with a .22 Centerfire for everyone, absolutely NOT.

However in my younger years (before I knew better) I probably killed more Whitetails, all one shot kills than with anyother caliber I have used since. In addition the longest one shot kill I ever made on a Whitetail was using an old Remington Model 788 in .22-250 shooting Remington Factory Ammo with 55gr. Pointed Soft Point Bullets. I have also had more DROP EM IN THEIR TRACKS with the .22-250 than with much larger calibers. To add insult to injury I have even made my share of one shot kills on Whitetail Deer with the puny .223 Remington.

In fact when my daughters were starting hunting I didn't have the funding to buy them a special rifle for Deer Hunting. Rather I simply worked up the most accurate, fast handload I could using the Winchester 64gr. Power Point Bullet (if you phone Winchester they will tell you this bullet was designed specifically for use on Whitetail Deer in the .22 Centerfires). All the Whitetails my daughters killed with that bullet / load in my Ruger M77 .223 never knew they were not supposed to DIE from a single well placed .22 caliber bullet.

The bottom line on this subject is everyone has their own opinion of what works and what doesn't work. This is a good thing, and in fact part of what has made this country so great. I happen to drive a Chevrolet Pickup and I like it. My buddy drives a Dodge Pickup and he likes it, while yet my Son in Law drives a Ford Pickup and again he likes it. That is what makes this country so great, WE ALL HAVE CHOICES.

Larry


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

SDHandgunner

That was a good post.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

SDHandgunner, I owe you a beer.

Invector, yes I have heard (or maybe is should say "hurd") of the numbering systems you are talking about. If in fact this is the extent of how you base your knowledge of bullet/round choices for certain types of game. I am sorry I even opened my mouth. I really don't want to go into a session on terminal ballistics, primary and secondary wound channels, bullet design, shot placement, personal limitations&#8230;..ect, ect. I can tell you this though. I HAVE killed more deer with my .222 than my .300 and I HAVE NOT had a .22 bullet "just bruise (aka bruze) a deer". My suggestion to you would be to use bigger calibers. It does not sound like a centerfire 22 is for you. Please don't get all "huffy" either. I'm just explaining myself.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> with the puny .223 Remington


Damn....... I wish you hadn't said that....... :lol:


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Just from this old coot :withstupid:

I think there is enough differece to own both :beer:

But then if you remember I am the guy that convinced my wife I needed a special cougar rifle now that ND has a season :toofunny:


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Gohon said:


> > with the puny .223 Remington
> 
> 
> Damn....... I wish you hadn't said that....... :lol:


OK so I had a moment of weakness, what can I say. Sorry about that one.

Larry


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Well I guess not all of us have a magical .222 that hands down kills deer better just by getting the bullet near the deer and the "secondary effects" it can cause...I guess scarring a deer to a point of hart attack might kill too.

Back to the main post, A shooting buddy of mine reloads 22-250's and has many good days shooting varmints with it. He loads them hot and suggests a 4000 fps from the loading manual. I also have a relitive that hunts with a 22-250 and has not killed a deer in the past 5 years with it, but hitting a deer just right should bring it down. I would suggest if you are wanting to get into deer hunting and like the 22-250 to get one for the two perpouses. I'm not sure what kind of reloading capability a .204 has, but have been told it too has very good aplications for mid to long range varmint hunting. Also a .223 is a realy good choice too for shooting varmints. It was suggested to me one time to get a mini-14 and just peper a deer with .223 slugs, granted it was more of a joke then reality.

I would also suggest looking and compairing the two cals and bullet sizes you can get for them. Winchester ammo site and federal site have listings of types of ammo you can get, velocity, and impact energy.

But as far as what Jiffy said about secondary woods all it will do is make following a deer and losing game that much esier. I'll get huffy when someone comes on here making fun of my for what I have been told, experianced, and anyother thing that I have to deffend myself for. AND yes I do have a 25-06 wich is a .22 can center fire that I am now using for close range shots. The reason I have the .300 is for long shots on deer. A 22-250, .222, .223, or any other smaller cal rife lack the impact at longer ranges, 300 yards, to drop a deer in its tracks. Close range say 75 yards or less anything will work, but longer then that seen too many deer hit and not drop to say smaller cals like that are good for deer. Just deffending myself.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Mr. Invector, we have much, much to learn. You dont have to listen to me but there are other guys on here that know alot more than both of us. I would advise listening to them. In the mean time I'll take my subpar .222 and go kill a few more deer past 75 yards....you know its magical.... :wink: :beer:


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> A 22-250, .222, .223, or any other smaller cal rife lack the impact at longer ranges, 300 yards, to drop a deer in its tracks. Close range say 75 yards or less anything will work, but longer then that seen too many deer hit and not drop to say smaller cals like that are good for deer


300 yards might be a stretch but out to 150-200 yards the 222, 223, and especially the 22-250 will knock a deer flat on it's *** if the right load is used and the shooter does his part. Which by the way is a requirement of all caliber's. Maybe you don't have that skill but others do. Don't know where you come up with this 75 yard mumbo jumbo but it sure can't be from personal experience. No one said anything about a magical 222, just that they had taken a lot of deer with one and your injection of comments not said, such as secondary effects or scaring a deer certainly doesn't help your point either. Now if you really want a eye opener, just hit a few of the boards of Texas hunters and ask them about the thousands of deer killed each year with the 223.


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

I am sorry that I am not the caliber or quality of a person you guys are. But your tain of thought is just uke: I think that I am false on what I am saying :eyeroll:. I hunted with a .222 a years and before that my father had it and killed very few deer with it. None were stone dead, most where downed by taking a leg off. I also stated that talking with some very respected shooters in my area they suggested that its not worth using varmint loads for deer. This too was questioned and picked apart and I was then again belittled. So I guess that I am posting off of my own happenings and am being called a lier for it. So I must have had one he)) of a dream to come up with it then. hm WOW is my face red.  oh wait :idea: lets try and do this more like gentalmen insted of what your trying to make me become. :thumb:


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> I also stated that talking with some very respected shooters in my area they suggested that its not worth using varmint loads for deer.


Good advice.............. Anyone that does use varmint loads will undoubtedly end up misinformed as you have been. The Nosler 60 grain Partition is not a varmint load. Neither is the Sierra GameKing 65 grain SBT number 1395 and these are the two loads I use. In my state you are required to have a deer tag during deer season anytime you are in the woods with a center fire whether you are hunting deer or not. Since I have to have a deer tag anyway it only makes sense to carry the two above loads with me when out shooting coyotes. Both my deer the last two seasons were taken with the above loads at about 140-150 yards each. Both were neck shots. Both dropped dead with only a couple steps taken. There are several ammo makers that produce ammo for the .223 that are intended for deer, not varmints. The .223 would not be my first choice if I were out strictly deer hunting but it will work just fine within it's limits and kill a deer just as dead as your 300 mag, again within it's limits. You can't get deader than dead no matter what you use. So yes, apparently you are posting off your own happenings which was using the wrong bullet to start with which resulted most likely in missed or mangled deer.

If you are really concerned about being a gentleman you might want to revisit your post of Fri Jul 21, 2006 5:11 pm and revise accordingly. That's only a suggestion since you seemed concerned&#8230;&#8230;


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## scissorbill (Sep 14, 2003)

Invector,Try to spell at something more than a second grade level. :eyeroll:


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Well again I am just posting off of my own experiances. I usually buy ammo form stores like scheels and have not yet seen the loads your talking about Gohon. I'm not trying to put down anyones gun or round they use, but all I have ever seen for guns smaller then a .243 is varmint loads. I can see though if a slug has the ability to resist expanding/opening up it would do well in any cal/mm for almost any game your lookng for. Head shooting a deer at close range with a 223 or a 22-250 would work with almost any type of bullet out there. I guess I have been trained for nothing but bodie shots and so are most people. And like I said thats what happend to me and thats all I can post with right?

As far as spelling goes on that one post, that was purposly done.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

Did you write, "Most were downed by taking a leg off..."? If so, well.....there it is. Shot placement and bullet construction is everything, no matter the cartridge. Before I was able to afford anything more appropriate for deer, I also shot a .222. It took down quite a few. But the thing is, you have to be not only proficient with your firearm, you have to be selective about the kind of shot you take. Where a running shot is doable for many out there, most of us are far better off waiting for the money shot, i.e. broadside at a stationary target, rather than risking a wounded game animal. As to suitable bullets, the Remington 55 grain Core-lokt has been around forever in .222, .223 and the .22-250. It is a wonderfully constructed bullet and has accounted for mountains of cleanly killed deer since it's inception. If you can reload, the Nosler 60 grain partition is a wonderful choice as are many other premium bullets out there. I know it was written elsewhere, but I'll reiterate by saying that placing your limitations upon others is always a mistake. As to the suitability of the .22 centerfires for deer, I'll simply say that there are, in the overall scheme, better choices of cartridge for the purpose. Invector, if you do your research a little more carefully before posting, I think you will see far less dissent. Don't forget that you are talking to people with many hundreds of years of accumulated knowledge here. Good hunting this Fall, Burl


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

Guys, stay on topic. The poster stated he wanted a varmint gun that would be legal to shoot deer with and wanted to know whether a 22-250, or a 204 ruger would be the better bet. Nobody has asked for ethical opinions on this. If you don't have something to say pertaining to the original question, don't post.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

I say again....22.250 !!! Hands down.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Go with the 22-250. Great varmint round and will cleanly take a deer as well.

I know one guy who frequents here that used to shoot everything with a 22-250. I don't recall that I ever seen him lose a deer that he shot with it, none of them bruzed either.  :stirpot: (Sorry couldn't resist)

:beer:

huntin1


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

huntin1 said:


> :stirpot: (Sorry couldn't resist)
> 
> :beer:
> 
> huntin1


Ya you just couldn't resist could you... :lol: :idiot:


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

The .22-250 is the best choice between the two. This wasn't the first topic, nor will it be the last to get off on a tangent. It's the nature of internet discourse. I'll just bet that the original poster might have even learned something! Burl


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I really don't have anything new, but I just couldn't resist adding my :2cents: If I could only have one, I would have to choose the 22-250. I believe it has more versatility than the 204. That being said, if I was shooting a LARGE amount of ammo at a time, I think the rifle and my shoulder both would fare better with the 204. Remember, all of the velocity and energy has to come from somewhere and that somewhere is burning powder. So I would say, make sure you have at least one of each. The 22-250 wouldn't be my first choice for deer, but loaded and shot properly, it will do the job. I don't think there are bullets of the proper construction in 20 cal for deer. Rember, construction is more important than weight, accuracy is more important than ft/lbs.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Yeah I like the .204 ruger but I would not shoot anything larger than a coyote with it. Hey!! I got a great idea GET BOTH!!!! :beer:


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Actually it wasn't a question between the .204 and the 22-250 but as to whether the 22-250 would reach out like the .204 in distance. The object was a long range varmint rifle that might also be used on deer, not which choice to get between the .204 and 22-250. I think the OP also said "any info would help" so I don't see the subject straying very far from the original post. The different opinions seem to appear after the statement was made that no 22 caliber is adequate for deer so even that is still on subject with the 22-250. Thought the entire thread was pretty informative myself.......


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Bore.224 said:


> Yeah I like the .204 ruger but I would not shoot anything larger than a coyote with it. Hey!! I got a great idea GET BOTH!!!! :beer:


Thats the best advice given so far :lol: :beer:


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Gohon said:


> The different opinions seem to appear after the statement was made that no 22 caliber is adequate for deer so even that is still on subject with the 22-250. quote]
> 
> I said I never killed a deer with my .222 when I had it, not that .22 cals are not good for deer...I also mentioned that I moved up form the .222 to a .25-06. There are many .22 cal guns out there that are good for deer and used for deer/varmint hunting.
> 
> But getting back to the one part of the main question, I have seen a 22-250 shot at 600 yards, it was impressive. Granted it was a reload and loaded for more speed, but it hit its target the same as the .308 that was also being shot. I did some looking on the 204 and 22-250 and seen that they are both about the same at 500 yards for speed and impact. Though 204 ammo is harder to come by, 22-250's are all over (kinda like the 223)


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## Sin man (Jul 25, 2006)

I found that this was a really helpfull thread and id really like to thank SDHandgunner for his great knowledge and it has helped me alot. i am also from the same area he is so i know what size deer are around here and what other kind of animals are around here too.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Sin man, you are very welcome. Yep I have lived in this area most all my life and have been hunting here since 1967 (well actually before that for gophers and such). I have a BAD HABIT in that once I have all my loads worked up and the gun shooting EXACTLY as I want it to I get the bug to try something different and trade it off for something different. This has been both a blessing and a curse all at the same time. For one thing I get to try new guns & cartridges and for the other thing it is often times challenging. The down side is I have traded off a lot of guns that I have lived to regret having traded them.

Oh well the Dr. made me quite smoking, my job won't allow me time to drink beer, the wife won't let me have a girl friend so I gotta have ONE BAD HABIT I guess.

Larry


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## Sin man (Jul 25, 2006)

it might be a bad habbit to some people but to others its just plain old fun and its a great thing to do with people of all ages. kids love to go gopher hunting. ill never forget the look on a kids face when they shoot their first gopher its almost art.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> I have traded off a lot of guns that I have lived to regret having traded them


Ever sat down and thought about all the guns you traded or sold only to see them go out of production and impossible to find now. Like the little Savage 24C combo that was perfect for the boat or just carrying behind the seat in the truck. Or the Rossi side by side coach gun with double triggers and double mule ear hammers that was a blast to shoot and made a perfect home defense gun sitting behind a door or the little S&W 32 kit gun or that Savage model 99 in 308 or........hell there is no end. It's enough to make you drink no matter what..............


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## prariewolf (Jul 24, 2006)

I have had both the .204 and the .22-250 if you are looking for a varmint deer combo gun i would suggest the .25 06. the .22-250 is a great gun for varmints and it wont dammage the coat. Right now i have a browning A bolt calibered in a Ruger .204, its the browning hunter II. over all if you are looking for a gun stricktly varmints then i would go with a ruger .204 although the wind blows that tiny bullet around, it will easily reach out to over 400 yards.


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