# North Dakota Twilight Zone



## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

We experienced some very interesting events while hunting in ND last week. Each day (lunch and sometimes dinner) we would eat in small town cafes.

Over the past 25 years hunting in ND (as a res & NR) we would often eat at the local diners. We would enter in our hunting garb (as clean as possible), sit down, order, eat, and leave. Often we would get a few passing stares in our direction. :shake: Conversations with the locals were rare and only happened if we initiated them.

This last week we were approached in 4 different cafes in three separate towns by locals. Often approached multiple times at one sitting. Sometimes it was grandmas coming up to talk. One even opened up a free jar of home canned pickles to share. Wow. 

They all asked if we were nonresidents. I always answer yes, but with ND roots. Once they heard yes we were asked to join their tables, told of areas to hunt or places to stay, and some apologized for any organized negative attitudes toward us visiting ND to hunt.

I am serious - it was really, really strange how well we were accepted as strangers in these places. Last year - same cafes - just glancing stares.

Some mention Eddie - and how he used this issue just to stir up his ratings and separate ND people - not to seek resolution.

Most all said they did not see a problem with NR hunters sharing the resource and helping their economy.

When I said plenty of residents help out the small town economies too - they said they buy there gas in the big towns, shells in the big towns, not eating here today are they ??

When I mention - quality of the hunting experience. Most seemed unconcerned or did not believe it. Often they said we are trying to survive out here - not just a ghost town with one or two bars.

Not sure what to make of all this - but next January should be very interesting in Bismarck.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

For somebody who just spent 5 days enjoying the outdoors in ND you seem very negative.

I'm a resident and I have also had many conversations with locals this year. I also have nothing but good things to say about the landowners of the state of ND. I haven't heard the negative comments that you seem to pick up in the local cafes. I have had several landowners as well a local business people help to line up lodging and places to hunt.

In reference to "Eddie", it sounds like you're the one trying to stir up negative feelings between residents and non-residents. Enjoy your stay and the hunting that you have but leave the issues to the state of ND and its people.

Your implication that residents buy all their shells, gas and food before they travel to an area really is laughable. You obviously purchase ALL your shells at the local cenex store come on, get real. Do you honestly think that no residents spend money in rural ND. I for one with my sons hunt every weekend in ND. Most mornings the first stop is at the local cenex to purchase water, pop, candy and sandwiches for the day. Oh, forgot the $30 -40 for gas for the day after driving 150-200 miles. Lunch, pizza or burger at local cafe, yes residents do frequent local cafes. If its a 2 day hunt, like many of them are, it's another $50-60 for a hotel room. I know for a fact that every NR that has come to ND has had the majority of shells with them when they arrive.

The majority of residents in ND are happy to see NRs come to the state to hunt waterfowl. Many of them I've met are very gracious and have a genuine love of the outdoors, a few don't. Residents just don't want to see more of the great influxes of hunters as in the past. You talk about the quality of the hunt. You would have to have a blindfold on not to see the increased amount of people hunting waterfowl, both resident and NR. I personally have helped 3 groups of MN hunters this fall in lining up places to stay and hunt. Another is a group from the far south that will be here for 2 weeks upland and waterfowling. So don't lump all the resident hunters into one group of hunters who don't believe there is a place for NR hunters in our state.

I'm sure there are people that are upset with the fact that the resident sportsmen in ND are standing up for their rights. We have let things evolve on their own for too long and its time to have a compromise between landowners and resident sportsman.

I'm fairly sure that most resident hunters from ND could care less what the issues are, legislatively speaking, pertaining to hunting in states other than our own.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Stir the pot -- that is what I do on this site don't you know.

Nope no negative feelings at all. Had a fantastic time. The ONLY and I REPEAT ONLY NEGATIVE feelings I have ever seen regarding NR hunters in ND is on these internet sites.

All my interactions with the local people in the cafes were very positive and I enjoyed talking with them. Pickles were great. Simply never had been appoached like that before. We talked with these people like long lost friends. Many had relatives living in the Twin Cities area. I probably could have stayed in their homes if I wanted to.

We joked that the city boy had to vacation in the country and the country people headed to the big cities for vacations.

I have written on this site before that I am often a GHOST NR hunter. By that I mean I travel in trucks with ND plates since much of my hunting is done with local ND friends and family. Now I bring one MN friend with me so he can experience what I grew up with. My ties to ND run very deep. My family owns plenty of farmland in ND. Unfortunately its out of most major waterfowl flyways.

Regarding Eddie ::: seems he needs no help from me stirring up the pot. He does fine on his own.

Growing up in ND, my family spent a lot of money traveling in ND for hunting. We were residents spending money in rural ND. You know the ND hunting season is just starting. All of you residents buying gas in small town ND - talk with the local guys. Stop in the small cafes and by pass the fast food in the nearby bigger towns. Get the word out by your actions and good behavior.

Finally I remain interested in ND politics - because
1) Bloodlines run very deep into ND.
2) I hunt in ND because it is where I grew up (land is familiar as are my family and friends)
3) It is probably where I will retire
4) The number one threat to freelance hunting in ND is not NR numbers but universal posting of all land to hunting.

Residents get out and talk with these people. If possible ask to hunt unposted grain fields just to let the farmer know your there. I ALWAYS TRY TO DO THIS. Ask him along. They will likely refuse, but hey they won't stumble into your field that next morning the anhyd. am. tanks either.

Take nothing for granted.


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

I don't even know where to start. First of all EDDIE is niether here nor there. That guy is a self inflicted contradiction. Secondly, I am glad you had a good hunt and experience. But come on, residents don't spend money in small towns? what? This last year, I have spent money in Ellendale mutiple, multiple times, Ashley, LaMoure,Edgley,Wishek, Lehr, Milnor , Gwinner, Oakes, Fredonia, and countless other small towns. I am talking from dove opener in Ellendale to until the last good ice fishing around Wishek and Lehr. This is all year, not just 1 or 2 weeks. Like Field Hunter said leave ND buisness to North Dakotans.And some of the things you said sound pretty made up to me. Never been approached before but all of a sudden in FOUR different cafe's, little old grandmas are talking about ND hunting and its politics, and giving you pickles. That is probably the best damn story I have ever heard. :roll:


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Really happened -- why -- hard to say. The way we were approached was amazing. Weird -- maybe.

Note now that I did not say residents do not spend money in there own state (some people in the cafes, not all we talked to did) and in fact I defended resident hunters - you.

Again, get out and talk with these ND people as you travel the countryside.

Politics :: Beware of the North Dakotan bank rolled by wealthy outstate interests not some guy talking on an internet BB.

Wingmaster: Know that area well. Grew up hunting SOBs through out much of SE ND.


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Prairie hunter, thanks for describing the hospitality you found hunting last week. I will see what we encounter this weekend when we are out in the country.

I know what you mean when you say that small town North Dakota folks often travel several miles away from their small town and spend their money in larger towns. Look at how Devils Lake has changed in the last 10 to 20 years. They have a new Wal Mart and K-Mart and fast food restaurants that they never had before. But, the population in Devils Lake did not increase enough to warrant those new stores. That means, Devils Lake is attracting people from Lakota, Rugby, Minnewaukan, and Cando to their stores. In the mean time those smaller towns have lost hardware stores and grocery stores. The businesses that are left in those towns are more than happy to see hunters in the local cafes.

I like good pickles. Maybe, we will get lucky too.


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

Perry, 
Read you article on the snow geese. I was hunting pheasants that day and I am pretty sure I saw you guys and your decoys set up. You were set up pretty close to a farm on its eastside set up in some corn stubble, and the roost was across the road to the north, a nice slough behind a treeline right off the road. The geese were thick in that area for along time after that. Ended up shooting some of them that year. Funny how you blame local kids for jumping the roost. The only time I see or talk to local kids is during deer hunting. And I hunt that area religiously from septembet 1 until january 1. Anyways nice to see someone took advantage of those geese.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

I'm with wingmaster in calling BS on this one. I just don't understand your motive - the pickle bit wasn't even funny. Had you been offered "the farmers daughter" it might have been a good laugh. Are pickles funny to 'sotas?

I had a different conversation with a small town service/merchant only a couple days ago. I asked this kindly gent if business was up with all the non-resident hunters stopping. He guffawed and said he hadn't seen many non-resident hunters this year and went further to mention that hunters don't mean much business to him at all - the local people going about their daily routine all year round are who keep him in business. I thanked him for sharing his thoughts, and left some of my buddy's money in his till.

M.


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## skyball (Aug 2, 2002)

I live in a small town here in ND,and I agree with MRN,it's the people that keep this place alive.I have no bitterness towards anyone,but I don't like to read that a tourist means more to my hometown than I do.We appreciate all outside business,but if you really care about our town please move or bring your business here.Than you'll really understand how a rural town works.

I think this site is a prime example of what rural ND businesses need.our geographic location is what hurts our business,so more rural businesses need to go online where location means nothing.Hello Mr. Hoeven, are you reading this? that's a hint.


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Wingmaster,

I think you are dead right on where we were last year for that great hunt. Your description of the spot sounds pretty accurate. It is a small world isn't it? Did you see anyone else with decoys set up that weekend?

I know it was the local folks that jumped the roost because they drove up to our decoys as we were picking up on Saturday night to chat a little. During the course of the conversation we learned that one of them was just down there for the weekend from Bismarck to visit his folks. During our chat they told us they were going to jump the roost the next day. And, they did. I guess they didn't know any better. I was really stupid. I should have invited them to sit with us the next morning. I know that all of us would have gotten more shooting. I'll know better next time.


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## TimR (Oct 8, 2002)

At this point, I do have to chime in. I've been to ND 3 of the last 4 years for the duck opener (missed last year due to a Muley hunt in WY). I'm a MN resident, but cheesehead born and bred. I've accepted Prairie Hunter's invite to go to ND for several reasons:

1) To enjoy the abundant game, the liberal access laws, and the good hunting in general.
2) Improve my waterfowling skills, as I grew up a deer hunter.
3) Spend a solid week hunting with my dog - as well as getting good help training my first dog from PH.

Now, I just can't sit here when someone calls BS on those nice old ladies who gave us the pickles. They were on their way to Seattle for vacation, and didn't want them to go to waste. Thus the conversation of "city folk vacation in the country, vice versa..."

As for PH's observations, I don't disagree with a single one. He calls them as he seems 'em, and that is what we experienced.

Yes, PH talked politics w/ the little old ladies. I didn't because I don't keep up on ND politics. I don't find it strange, though, as I keep up politics in WI. And I have a deposit slip from a gentleman that is renovating part of his house to accomodate NR hunters. He wanted to give me his information for place to stay for next year. He has a boat that he keeps for a group of NR's from WI. He depends on this for part of his income.

You'll hear more from me...<grin>


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## Bronco (Aug 12, 2002)

I have to agree with PH and this probably is what he experienced. I have heard from several people in small towns who were very friendly and "nawed" my ears off. They didn't distinguish between NR & resident hunters, however they wanted me to know how important hunters are to their local economies. One guy seemed like he was trying to convince me-but I agreed with him from the start??? The only bad deal is that I didn't get any pickles-and I love homemade "granny" pickles! Glad you had a good hunt PH! There was no doubt to these folks that we "Bismarckers" spend money in their local communities-our bar tab/pizza/buffola wings was well over $100 and that was the first night!


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

Perry,
I have hunted that area since I could carry a gun, my uncle owns land around there, and I know pretty much every field. To answer your question, I didn't see anybody else with decoys out. I don't own snow goose decoys, so I resorted to pass shooting them as they flew blind over a treeline into corn stubble. It was still a good time. I had seen your article on the home page but never got around to reading it until recently. As I was reading it I could picture the exact roost and field you were set up on. It gave me chills down my back. Your right, pretty small world. Sucks that someone had to jump the roost, and kick to birds out of there for ya. But there were so many geese around that another flock found its way there.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Some how I think all the love you resident freelancers were talking about a few weeks ago for the freelance non-res hunter has died now that they have shown up in your backyard. :withstupid:


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## Miller (Mar 2, 2002)

This is the calmest forum when it comes to these issues.Stereotyping gets way out of hand at sites like waterfowler.No reason to stir up the pot zogman, nobody here is attacking NR, and it appears that everyone hunts with NR.At least this site works towards solutions.oke:


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Miller,
You are right. I posted the above comment on the wrong thread. I should of posted it under the heading "Freelancers or something else". Sorry about the mix up.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

TimR,

Welcome to the site - since I don't have good reason to doubt you (although cheese head, non-resi, & knowing PH makes it a close call) I'll back off on the BS call (The BS call was on PH - not the old ladies). Of course, the farmers daughter is still much funnier than pickles...

Now I'm sure you're gonna tell us that the halloween decorations we've been seeing were put up by the "towns folks" to scare away resident hunters...

Moreover - you have one heck of a dilema in front of you: do you crusade for unlimited non-resident hunters next year because you have a deposit slip, or do you work to preseve the quality hunting in north dakota that you came for in the first place. Values or $$$? Hope we hear from you.

M.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Hey I am on record on this site for capping the licenses at 22K. Would have been fine with me. Those that wanted a license would have got one.

Now TR and I did not see very many NR hunters where we hunted (sorry Fetch - still a secret). See my post in DUCKS. I believe that the peak NR influx is between October 10 and October 20 - so I can not speak of "too high pressure" even where we hunt since I am not there at that point in time. I can tell you that the end of October is not bad there either - when I return.

I was born and raised North Dakotan. Much of my family and some of my friends remain in ND. I am tied to this state (ND) tighter than many that live there now. Family still farms in ND. Some of my work (here in MN) actually helps keep good jobs in ND and a good chunck of money flowing to NDSU.

Regarding 2003. Not worrying yet. Have many back-up plans including SD (lottery), MB, SK, or using some business connections to grab an allocated license or two. Kidding ? Sell your soul ? We will see.


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## TimR (Oct 8, 2002)

-Would I rather have a limited amount of licenses or continue the good hunting?

In my limited experience, I haven't seen the legions of NR hunters that others have reported. If someone can prove to me that there has been a decline in the resource due to the numbers of NR hunters, I would support a cap. But you are going to need to prove to me that it is the total number, and not the distribution that is at fault, as well as demonstrating that the resource is being harmed.

A question for you - Why both an early opener week for Residents, as well as a NR cap? What do you contribute to waterfowl production that I don't? I buy a MN and ND (and some years WI) waterfowl license, Fed stamp, state stamps, support DU, etc. You live in ND, so I can understand wanting to protect your hunting, but we are talking about migratory birds. Now don't get all pissy, but give it some thought. I'm very open to listening to a logical, reasoned answer.

IMO, an early opener for residents is fine. Or, a lower (22k) cap on the number of NR hunters is fine. Or, the situation this year was fine. If you really wanted a NR ND waterfowl license, you got one. It took how many months to sell out? I bought mine the first day they were available.


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## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

TimR,
You bought one the first day they were out. Good for you. So why all the whining, and complaining. Minnesota had a chance for a week early duck hunt.You should of took it. And we don't have to prove anything to you or anyother NR because you have no part in the decision making process, only the people of ND are. AND like I have said a MILLION times,North Dakotans aren't trying to change your state hunting laws and bothering you constantly,so why are you? GET OVER IT!!!


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Wingmaster
Hate to say this but I'll have to agree with you on this one.

TimR,
There's a "CAP"! Get over it! Maybe you would prefer to hunt in SD where there are only 4000 licenses available. Please read the post by "Fetch" on Oct. 14th on the Hot Topics site entitled "if the Texans start coming up here". The link to the article by a writer at the houston cronicle says it all. The reason we have what every NR waterfowl hunter wants is that most of the land is still accessible to "Everyone" and that there isn't a duck boat and decoy spread every 200 yards like some areas in MN.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Hey guys - be nice. TimR's the reasonable kinda guy to whom we can look to for growing ND support. You've seen it all over the web - after folks think about it a little, they support the caps and preservation of hunting in ND. He's not whining - just discussing. He missed the early rounds and PH has been too busy eating pickles to fill him in.

Tim - they were just kidding. Ha ha. funny guys....

************
Just so you don't go Clinton on us, we'll define "resource" as high quality waterfowl hunting experiences. That's the resource we're talking about. Not duck production.

1) It is the view of the NDG&F waterfowl biology guys who devised the various plans that there are too many hunters for the resource with any amount of water and duck numbers (table 15 - "25K + NR - not sustainable under any conditions" - PH can probably show you the various concepts they floated. He discussed them over pickles didn't he? )

2) The Alliance survey shows that resident hunters do believe the growing number of NR has diminished the resource.

That's the best evidence you'll find.

Come on Tim- that "I buy a license" and "I support DU" stuff don't float here. Its irrelevant. What does "migratory" have to do with anything? Are you implying that waterfowl somehow belong to everyone, regardless of where they are at? Birds in ND belong to the state of ND. Hunting is governed by ND law/proclamation. Same thing for birds/fish/deer in MN. Surely you aren't leaning towards these federalist/nationalist/socialist views on anything other than when you covet something on the west side of the Red River?

I vocally opposed the early opener to the decision makers, but it has been a goal for the G&F guys who wanted a teal season for many years. Fine.

In the end, its nice to have another NR who supports a 22K limit. Welcome aboard.

M


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## TimR (Oct 8, 2002)

Wow. Two very disappointing responses. Perhaps I should not have expected civil discourse, what with the ND "brain-drain" and all.

Wingmaster - 
A) Please show me where I did "all the whining, and complaining".
B) I was asked a question, and to give an accurate response I needed information. You're correct, _you_ don't need to prove anything to a NR.
C) I am not trying to change your GnF laws.
D) Take a deep breath.

Field Hunter -
Like I said, I don't have a problem with the cap. I don't exactly see how I am bothering you, either. I didn't force you to read what I wrote. Do you have any responses to my question, or do you just like to jump on my *ss because my vehicle has a different plate?

Pretty poor showing here, fellow hunters.


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## TimR (Oct 8, 2002)

MRN -

1) I'll buy that. I don't know where to find the table, but if that is the determination of GnF, that's their job and they do it well.

2) Well... come on now, wouldn't anyone say the same thing?

I really don't understand why migratory doesn't mean anything to you. Sure, deer, bear, fish, etc. for the most part live out their lives in one state. I don't see how ND "owns" birds that spend part of the time all over the continent. Why are there federal regulations regarding migratory waterfowl?

If ND wants to completely eliminate NR hunting of waterfowl (I'm not suggesting they want to) that is their right as a state to try. IMO, that is not "right", as the birds "belong" to everyone who has a stake in their life-cycle. That's simply my opinion, and with an open mind I was asking for other reasoning.

And really, what _do_ you (inclusive) do to support migratory waterfowl more than a NR hunter?

Tim


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Did you take the time to go to the link I mentioned? Doesn't sound like it.
I think MRN has it together pretty well. The laws governing waterfowl hunting in ND are NDs business. I can't remember how many times I've heard some NR say they support DU so they should be able to hunt where the ducks are. I've been hunting ND 35 years and I've run into maybe one DU project.

Sorry your post didn't sound like you supported a cap. Maybe in a previous post you said that you supported the 22,000 but here you said someone needed a good answer to your questions before you would support one.

How do you prove the quality of the waterfowl hunting has been diminished in ND due the influx of NR hunters? I think that if you lived and hunted in ND all year you might have a different opinion. It is nearly impossible to find lodging in the local hotels and BBs in the good areas....not so when only 5 -10,000 NRs came just 8 years ago. Many of the local ducks in an area are harrassed non-stop until they decide to move on. You don't see the pressure as you are here for a week at a time but when you leave a new group shows up and starts the cycle all over again. 8-10 years ago there was great pothole hunting through most of October. Not any more. Most local ducks end up in someones freezer or just move on after a week or two. Many areas are leased up like never before which limits the hunting in good areas for both residents and NRs. There were very few leased acres 8-10 years ago for waterfowling. Many acres are being purchased by both residents and NRs in an effort to save some sort of misconceived notion that at least they will have one area no one else can hunt. I know that many times people have posted here and stated tha they have not run into another hunter during their time afield. We're just saying we'd like to keep it that way. Things have changed in ND in the last 10 years and if we didn't stop the influx of greater and greater amounts of NRs then I think you would see a time where there were 2 hunters for every available spot.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

1) yep
2) if it was affecting you, yep, if not, nope.

The feds are involved because they can negotiate international treaties - this is one of the few things outside of state control. They also oversee cooperation between states - the interstate thing. However, states are autonomous units. They are soverign, independent. To a state, a non-res from MN is the same as a non-res from manytoby, or from algeria.

Migratory means the birds move. Nothing more. Birds in ND belong to ND. That's in ND century code. If they fly south they belong to SD, just as any deer that hops over the road. I fail to see how birds moving somehow trumps state soverignty. If that were so, I should be allowed to hunt doves in Iowa, and geese on the mall at DC.

You're also mixing up the rhetorical and the legal. Consider, the welfare of the children of the state belongs to, or is a responsibility for, all of us. However, just try taking one home for safe keeping. Likewise, stewardship of the resource is a responsibility we freely take upon ourselves, but state proclamation grants us the priviledge to hunt. Given that ND laws serve those who choose to live in and visit ND, the current restrictions shouldn't be too much of a surprise.

M.


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## TimR (Oct 8, 2002)

FH - Yes, I read the article. It brings to mind a point about DU. There are federally funded refuges, federally funded WPA's, PLOTS is funded from license sales, I guess only one DU funded project, and I couldn't find the funding source for WMA's. The point is - my dollars are going to your state to support "your" birds. That acreage is probably vastly outnumbered by privately held land that supports wildfowl, but some of those birds are in ND because of NR funding.

MRN - Good post. Food for thought.


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## Westerner (Mar 15, 2002)

TimR,
After reading lots of articles/posts about the conflict between NR and Res hunters, I have come to this conclusion. It is overly generalized and probably no one believes in all of them but here it goes (from biggest to smallest problem):
1. Fee hunting companies/outfitters/guides leasing vast tracts of land in prime areas.

2. Non-residents who frequent the establishments mentioned in #1.

3. Non-resident free-lance hunters.

4. Residents who frequent the establishments mentioned in #1.

5. Residents who are free lance hunters.

I agree with your posts in concept. Then again, that probably doesn't surprise anyone here.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

TimR, I always chuckle a bit when nonresidents ask "what's all the fuss?" We regularly hear there is little pressure, few hunters and plenty of birds. I've resided and hunted (tried to) in WI and MN, and I can understand this perspective and why the question is frequently asked. The bird hunting and hunting opportunities in most other places are nothing short of terrible, and comparing the wingshooting quality of those two (and most other) states to ND is like comparing apples to bowling balls. Many of us chose to stay in, move to or move back to ND because we have (had) world class bird hunting. ND may still seem like (and is) Nirvana to you, as compared to what you have in your home state, but for those of us who have been doing this for many years and are thus have the historical perspective to make comparisons, the quality of our world class resource has seriously degraded the past several years and is headed to the point where it is no longer world class and it's getting difficult to even participate in what's left.

We want to restore our world class bird hunting, and that cannot be done without limiting the number of hunters and hunter days. I appreciate your commitment to wildlife and your participation in wildlife organizations. Many of us ND's also write checks to DU, PF, RMEF, NWTF, etc. each year. While I write a check to the NWTF each year, I don't expect the same priveleges to shoot a turkey in another state as the residents of that state. And the migratory aspect of waterfowl doesn't change the analysis for me. The ND landowner who raises 1,000 broods on his ground should not enjoy the same priveleges to hunt ducks in Arkansas as the guy who spends the whole year in Stutgart simply because of the landowner's contibution to the resource. Most states grant their residents better opportunities to natural resources highly sought after, and this is a reasonable reward and incentive for the residents of such state to remain so and to encourage others to become residents.

What most ND sportspersons are looking for is a little balance and compromise, so that we regain our world class bird hunting and the ability to access it. Based upon current use by ND's, and all foreseeable use, that means there will always be room for many thousand nonresidents, and we welcome the opportunity to share our resources with a reasonable number of them. A "let them all in" mentality is just as unreasonable as a "shut down the borders" one. Neither is practical, logical or sustainable. Instead, moderation, compromise and balance must prevail so that ND regains one of the very few lifestyle ammenties it can uniquely offer. This is the philosophy and goal of the Hunter Pressure Concept for setting waterfowl caps and many of the other ND sportspersons measures that will be addressed during this winter's legislative session.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Well put Dan. Your sound judgment on the situation never ceases to amaze me.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

OK I finally finished that last pickle.

I never did discuss any hunter pressure concepts or G&F / Legislative ideas with any local ND resident in the small cafes. Really think they would have walked away from me if I went there.

We did talk briefly about all hunters and the impact on their economy and the fact that they REALLY enjoy people visiting them and taking time to talk. Remember these small towns - everyone knows everyone - sees each other often - how much is there talk about anymore - lonely places. People like to talk with new people.

Dan, I grew up in SE ND and have hunted over most of the state. You can search my old posts if you care.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/members/ph ... 5d27a8f5e1

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/members/ph ... 5d27a8f5e1

The posts above were written well before many joined this site.

In the late 70s and early 80s, the hunting pressure was very intense across SE ND and NW of Jamestown. Areas around Woodworth ND have always been leased (except a few years in the 90s). Mid season lulls were common place. Remember Lohman's Forum articles in the 80s : he would drive 100s and 100s of miles across prime duck areas and never find much.

Finally Dan : TimR has not seen a decrease in quality of hunting because for the most part I have not either (hunted 25+ straight years in ND). I have put him in areas where bird populations are strong and hunting pressure light to nonexistent.

I guess I would argue the quality of my hunting has been the highest over the last 5 years. We do not "limit" on every hunt of every day - nor do we want to or even try. We have fun hunting a variety of ways while chasing mallards, geese, and grouse. We take a break at lunch head to the nearest town and relax.

I am looooong past the kill, kill, kill, stackem high phase. Still we continue to have excellent days hunting (and I still will stackem for an occasional picture). It is kind of fun to have your harvest dictated by personal decision - not bird availability.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Well put Dan...Compromise is better than either alternative.
PH...Most local people enjoy seeing NR this time of the year.But I would guess very few if any of those people you talked to in the cafe are waterfowl hunters.So how can they possibly know what the situation is like.When do we reach the saturation point.Hunting has changed big time.NR are always saying...We didn't see anybody.That's because Res hunters are working during the week.I can only hunt on weekends.But when I do get out and about the potholes are bare.This wasn't the case 5 to 10 years ago.The only difference is that the number of NR has increased dramatically.There has to be a limit,and I go along with our GNF.They should know.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

PH, if you've found an area with strong bird numbers and non-existent/low pressure, congratulations and keep it under your hat. Up until this year, I still had one such spot, but the jig is up on that one too. Most ND's also had such spots in previous years, but the sheer number of hunters out and about and the advent of websites, better maps and gps has made "honey holes" a dying breed.

Please don't confuse ND's complaints about pressure as a complaint that we're not harvesting enough birds. Like you, many of us don't judge whether a day has been successful based soley on carcass count. I like to use the phrase Quality Hunting Opportunities to describe the resource we're trying to protect and regain. This is, for example, the chance to hunt one small wetland in a quarter section without the quacking, banging and skybusting from two other groups in other wetlands in the same quarter. This is being able to set up on a field feed without camping overnight on the field approach so as to dissuade some of the 7 other groups that scouted the same feed the night before. This is the chance to walk an unposted field or public hunting area for upland at 9:00 am without seeing 3 other groups in or just pulling out of the same area. QHO isn't about no pressure, or having the resource to ourselves, but rather reasonable pressure so the quality of our bird hunting doesn't go the way of almost all other states. We cannot achieve a return to reasonable pressure and QHO without a reduction in hunters and hunter days.

Finally, back to the original topic of your post, I'm surprised this is the first year you've found rural ND's engaging you in conversation. One of the things I've always enjoyed most about my rural excursions as a nonresident for several years and as a resident now is the chance to meet and talk to new people and familiar faces I don't know very well but see each fall. I've hardly ever filled up my gas tank, checked into a motel, eaten at a cafe or had a beer in a bar where I didn't have conversations with local folks or other travelers. Being friendly, helpful and generous comes naturally to ND's, and I've experienced this trait equally this year as in the past. More to that, I have not experienced a single instance of the landowner retribution threatened by those who oppose reasonable limitations. Not saying there are not isolated instances of posting and denied access because of these issues, but in the days I've spent afield so far in various areas across the state, I haven't encountered it. Most ND's, across the board, are reasonable folks who embrace balance and compromise, and understand how important the outdoors are to all ND's.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Caps
Dan I agreed with the 22K cap because I fully understand that many resident hunters are frustrated by all the new pressure. I believe that the 22K would have been a very good compromise.

Read my report in Ducks. You will see that we did lose an op. on huge flocks of mallards because of a guide operation. We moved on, scouted and found a pretty good second choice.

*Caps fine - do not allow any licenses to be reserved for guides or NR landowners. This is what happens with NR deer licenses (posted on that topic before too.)* :******:

Historically:
Ducks were often ignored and often taken for granted in ND before this big influx of NRs. The game has certainly changed. Snow geese are no longer the top game in town and ducks have had to fill the void.

In the 80s in SE ND. Pheasant opener - you often had to be in your public spot an hour before shooting time - then other hunters would walk by you anyway. All residents. Pheasants bring out the worst in many hunters.

Now:
I hunt pheasants hard, but do not bother with opening week. Often hunt on public land. Rely on my dogs' abilities to put me on birds no matter the pressure. Last year we followed three guys and two labs (about 30 minutes after they returned to the car) and my brother and I limited out behind top dog work. Has happened more than once.

Ken: 
I have hunted often on weekdays since college (no class on Thursdays). I budget vacation, beg borrow, and steal time to hunt weekdays. Has always been the way to go in ND even in the 80s and 90s. My dad would pull us out of high school when the snow geese were down and the snow about to fly.

Some use vacation for summer fishing trips ... others fall hunting trips.

Talking
As I travel and hunt in ND I too have always enjoyed talking with ND people (I still consider myself one of them). These conversations were mostly with what you described above: business owners and most importantly : farmers. I always take time to talk with farmers.

*What was unique about this fall is strangers (other patrons of the cafes) approached us, engaged conversation about out of state hunters, etc... That I had not seen before.*


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