# The trip to Jamestown post



## jrp267

You guys are unbelieveable. The guy never asked where the birds where. He was wondering how the plots map worked and if anyone new of a hotel. You guys are a real piece of work.It's nice you are such an inhospitable group. I have no dog in this fight just thought you guys need to learn some manners.


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## AdamFisk

I actually agree with you on this...... He was just looking for a place to stay, from what I could tell.

I have my jackass moments every now and than too, people just get sick of the same crap and let loose every once in a while is all.

PM heading his way.


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## Ron Gilmore

jrp267 said:


> You guys are unbelieveable. The guy never asked where the birds where. He was wondering how the plots map worked and if anyone new of a hotel. You guys are a real piece of work.It's nice you are such an inhospitable group. I have no dog in this fight just thought you guys need to learn some manners.


+1


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## Mrmallard

mhaburn you can pm me for some areas and or places to stay. I will always help other groups through pms. We've been traveling out that way for the last 7 years, and I know you are looking for some helpful advice not the honeyhole others think they own. Good luck and post tons of pics when you get back!


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## blhunter3

Its not that everyone is protecting their sweet spots its just some of what he was asking he could have google searched it jsut as easy as he posted it here.


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## Blue Plate

For as bad as this forum has become I find the folks in ND very hospitable In my decade plus of hunting ND not changed much and the people I've meet are so great. I personally don't understand the hyper-sensitivity to naming towns when the statistics show that hunting pressure in ND is decreasing. Oh well, I'm a little over a month to returning to ND and I can't wait.


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## averyghg

Blue Plate said:


> the statistics show that hunting pressure in ND is decreasing..


either #1) you are an absolute idiot OR #2) your 6 years old and somehow learned how to type on the internet before you can process information in your brain.


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## Buck25

averyghg said:


> Blue Plate said:
> 
> 
> 
> the statistics show that hunting pressure in ND is decreasing..
> 
> 
> 
> either #1) you are an absolute idiot OR #2) your 6 years old and somehow learned how to type on the internet before you can process information in your brain.
Click to expand...

if you don't agree then why didn't you explain to him why you don't agree or even better show some evidence of why you don't agree. 
Instead you think up some smarta$$ comment calling him an idiot. Thanks for all the great info!


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## Mrmallard

Google it or maybe find some nice people that love the same sport as him and chat? I would research normally fun forums as well. He already mentioned where he was planning on going, not looking for location just some regular advice but people just read to far into a simple question. I wonder how many of upset guys read a post like his, and say" Oh oh, somebody is coming to Jamestown I bet they will get all of OUR fields, we better leave earlier in the morning." just curious. Anyway good luck to all that make it out and enjoy the best sport the great outdoors offers!


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## blhunter3

I wasn't upset at all, to me it sounded like he didn't do much research before he started asking questions. Sometimes doing research because asking questions is the best thing to do.For me it wasn't about the birds, because I have a ton of posted land that very very few people get to hunt. Everyone gets tired of seeing the same posts. Yes we don't have to read them, but when a town is named everyone reads it. Hell if I meet him out scouting I wouldn't hesitate to invite him with me. I have hunted with alot of NR's the last couple years, couple of them are even on this site.


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## beretta16

averyghg said:


> Blue Plate said:
> 
> 
> 
> the statistics show that hunting pressure in ND is decreasing..
> 
> 
> 
> either #1) you are an absolute idiot OR #2) your 6 years old and somehow learned how to type on the internet before you can process information in your brain.
Click to expand...

Wow.. Just wow. Would your response have been the same if he said that in person? Little people are so big from behind their monitors. You are a prime example of why this forum is so poor.


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## The Shovla

I also have no dog in this fight, but as a NR I would rather ask locals about lodging and such, since they live there and have heard things by word of mouth. It's hard to tell about places online sometimes. I don't think that most NR that post questions on here really mean any harm by it, they may just not realize what they are asking is "bad" or they may word things wrong. When someone jumps down your throat, it makes you not want to ever post on here again. I've never met a rude North Dakotian in person, but on here, some guys are little rude IMO. Not trying to offend, just what I've seen and feel.


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## Blue Plate

averyghg said:


> Blue Plate said:
> 
> 
> 
> the statistics show that hunting pressure in ND is decreasing..
> 
> 
> 
> either #1) you are an absolute idiot OR #2) your 6 years old and somehow learned how to type on the internet before you can process information in your brain.
Click to expand...

Here are the waterfowl numbers through 2005

Year Res NR Total

1975 67,267 6,043 73,310 
1976 63,660 8,530 72,190 
1977 63,117 7,933 71,050 
1978 64,081 9,044 73,125 
1979 59,053 8,682 67,735 
1980 55,508 8,262 63,770 
1981 52,079 6,931 59,010 
1982 52,565 7,615 60,180 
1983 48,575 7,085 55,660 
1984 45,814 7,111 52,925 
1985 41,470 6,380 47,850 
1986 42,048 7,507 49,555 
1987 40,890 7,505 48,395 
1988 26,838 4,222 31,060 
1989 29,394 5,778 35,172 
1990 27,529 5,522 33,051 
1991 27,857 5,928 33,785 
1992 22,816 8,175 30,991 
1993 30,271 9,534 39,805 
1994 35,329 10,316 45,645 
1995 37,054 11,997 49,051 
1996 39,009 13,750 52,759 
1997 36,953 15,561 52,514 
1998 39,513 19,191 58,704 
1999 39,118 21,873 60,991 
2000 35,992 25,165 61,157 
2001 35,310 30,029 65,339 
2002 34,138 29,992 64,130 
2003 30,771 26,066 56,837 
2004 28,336 24,375 52,711 
2005 28,331 25,455 53,786

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/loc ... 73bbf.html

I'm not going to spend the time looking up 2006 - 2010 but I know those numbers are down (drought and economy). The above article indicated that as well. The peak number of NR hunters were at peak numbers in 2001-2003. Maybe you try using your brain instead of your mouth.


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## Blue Plate

averyghg - Here is another article to aducation yourself on.

North Dakota hunters come from Minnesota, Wisconsin

Associatd Press

BISMARCK, N.D. - North Dakota waterfowl hunters come from Minnesota and Wisconsin but drought was a factor in reducing the total during the past season, license figures show.

The Game and Fish Department figures show 23,121 nonresidents bought waterfowl licenses to hunt in North Dakota, compared to nearly 26,000 last year. They included hunters from all 50 states and five Canadian provinces.

Paul Schadewald, the department's chief of administrative services, said drought was one reason the total number dropped.

"Certain parts of the state have been very dry for at least three years," Schadewald said. "It concentrated birds in smaller areas. The wetlands that remain had quite a few birds on them. It was a matter of having access to them."

Wildlife officials worry about next year.

"Unless we get significant snow and rain this spring, it will be tough on waterfowl and waterfowl hunting," Kreil said.

---

Looks like 
2006 - 26,000 NRs sold 
2007 - 23,121

Information from: Bismarck Tribune, http://www.bismarcktribune.com


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## Mrmallard

Nice work blue plate, :beer:


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## The Shovla

Interesting numbers. I enjoyed seeing that. Thanks for the post. I totally could tell the last couple years that numbers of hunters were down. My group of 5 comes out from WI every year, even through the drought, and still had a blast. No, we didn't shoot as many birds, but still enough, and still had a great vacation and saw more birds in a week in ND that we see all year in WI. I appreciate the Residents of ND that welcome us every year and that help with questions here on the site. Have a great season everyone! :beer:


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## blhunter3

I personally have seen an increase in numbers in the area I hunt with NR's so maybe ghg has seen an increase in people too? I think people may concentrate in certain area's so the numbers may be down in gerenal, but in certain area's the numbers may be higher. Just a guess though. ghg was never much of a debater.


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## pheasants

No it sounds like he is quite the master debater!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Plainsman

You know I seen this post when it started but never got back to it. I thought it could go south, but since the fellow already named the town he was headed for and was asking about motels not ducks I thought it could have a chance to stay civil. I should have known better.

blhunter3 has it right, but so does blue plate. Numbers are down, but they are up in some localities. If you don't believe it that's ok, but I think it could have been expressed more civil. That is the politest way I can say clean it up.

I don't blame people for what state they are from, I blame them for being stupid on a personal basis. I'm getting sick of people camping in the middle of a prairie dog town I hunt on public land to keep others from being able to shoot. I don't much care about the license plate. Those individuals were arrogant jerks, but it didn't reflect on everyone from that state.

I am American before I am North Dakotan. A man has to have priorities. As a matter of fact mine are God, Family, America, Myself/Job, and then North Dakota. You may not agree with my priorities that is your prerogative. We can still respect one another. I suppose I could change my mind slightly after one, two, and three.


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## northdakotakid

Here it is... I am from Jamestown and there are several chain motels in town so finding lodging won't be hard for even the inexperienced web-surfer.

I can see both sides but everyone seems to forget what has made North Dakota such a great state to hunt waterfowl in... the fact that before the internet people (resident and non-resident) who wanted to hunt an area actually had to travel there first in order to have any idea how to hunt or who to talk to about it. Today the amount of internet scouting has reduced this all important part of sportsmanship to such a minor factor that the heart and soul of the sport has been taken largely out of it.

So if some people in our great state seem callused and are quick to jump to conclusions... well I am not making any excuse for their lack of manners but I only try to provide some context into the root of their poor communication. In today's instant resource of information it sure seems like the art of adventure and common courtesy amongst sportsman has been lost... and sadly probably forever. TEACH THOSE KIDS RIGHT...


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## Plainsman

Northdakotakid, I understand what your saying. Nice post.


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## averyghg

Blue Plate said:


> averyghg - Here is another article to aducation yourself on.
> 
> North Dakota hunters come from Minnesota, Wisconsin
> 
> Associatd Press
> 
> BISMARCK, N.D. - North Dakota waterfowl hunters come from Minnesota and Wisconsin but drought was a factor in reducing the total during the past season, license figures show.
> 
> The Game and Fish Department figures show 23,121 nonresidents bought waterfowl licenses to hunt in North Dakota, compared to nearly 26,000 last year. They included hunters from all 50 states and five Canadian provinces.
> 
> Paul Schadewald, the department's chief of administrative services, said drought was one reason the total number dropped.
> 
> "Certain parts of the state have been very dry for at least three years," Schadewald said. "It concentrated birds in smaller areas. The wetlands that remain had quite a few birds on them. It was a matter of having access to them."
> 
> Wildlife officials worry about next year.
> 
> "Unless we get significant snow and rain this spring, it will be tough on waterfowl and waterfowl hunting," Kreil said.
> 
> ---
> 
> Looks like
> 2006 - 26,000 NRs sold
> 2007 - 23,121
> 
> Information from: Bismarck Tribune, http://www.bismarcktribune.com


haha let the fun begin. you see this is what i love about what you just tried to do........ you (from minnesota) come here for two weeks a year and a look at a statistic on number of licenses sold and you figure thats how much pressure is here. Pressure refers to how often the birds get banged at not how many licenses are sold. sure they are directly related, but on years that are more dry and less licenses are sold, there's less water for birds to roost on in turn increasing more pressure on more concentrated birds AND thus INCREASING pressure. Waterfowl hunting has become a LOT more popular over the last 5 years and people buying licenses are hunting more often than they ever have. I'm from ND, I hunt almost every single weekend of the year (not just 2 weeks) so i can go by what actually happens and not by what the game and fish post as # of licenses sold. 
This is the difference between a lot of residents and non-residents, you think you know whats going on here cause you can read it on the web when in turn you really don't know what you're talking about its honestly quite sad. uke:

Another thing to note: there are far more students coming to nd for college mostly for the ability to retain a resident license, college kids hunt birds harder in the state than anyone. Five years ago you could hunt anywhere around fargo and never see another hunter now you're lucky to get a hunt in a year there without someone else scouting the same field. if i had to guess theres 5k plus non residents in this state going to college getting great and getting licenses for waterfowl.


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## takethekids

I couldn't care much less about ND duck hunting if I tried, but I have to share my feelings about the culture around here. This site has some of the most rude and disrespectful posters of any forum I've been affiliated with. I seldom post on here b/c some of you residents are just stuffy and rude. Other ND residents are salt of the earth type folks, but many of you guys are just jerks. You were bullied in high school, shoved in lockers, and peed on. Now you're behind a computer monitor and you're tough guys taking your revenge out on the world like some kind of over zealous security guard. Keep running people off NoDak forum members b/c there is another hunting site on the web that will take these people and treat them with respect, even if they do bring up something that has been brought up before.


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## Blue Plate

Avery - I hunt in a part of the state where there is no hunting pressure, zero. We hardly hear shots in the morning. I've been hunting ND for 11 years, granted I only 10 days a year in ND but I do have some experience to draw upon. There is no pressure in ND. If anything the hunting pressure is decresing not increasing. This year with how bad the Economy is hunting pressure will be down, just like the last few years as the FACTS show by number of ND licenses shows. I could hunt a couple spots anyday during the season and kill a limit of ducks, anytime in October. Some you guys act like hunting ND is so hard, the hunting pressure so terrible, there are guys all over etc. If I lived there I would start securing my hunting spots in July. I have exclusive hunting access to thousands of acres of lands and I live 250 miles from where I hunt. Almost every night when we go out to dinner the locals reaction is you drove all this way to kill some ducks.

Try hunting in Rochester where I hunt 40 days of the season it you want hunting pressure. You see some of the biggest decoy spreads, best callers and best goose hunters in the nation there. That's real hunting pressure, not a few guys set up with 6 dozen foots. ND will never become like Rochester it's too far and there are too few people that hunt there.


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## blhunter3

There are places all over that a person can go to and hear no gunshots. But in certains area's the pressure and seemed to skyrocket, such as where I hunt. Having more guys hunting isn't the problem, the problem is when the pressure increases and people get mad and do stupid things, like hunting posted land and have some bs excuse on how they are in the right, or when people tear up muddy roads and fields, therefor closing access to more people.


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## HUNTNFISHND

Personnally I would rather help someone out then have them resort to using a guide or outfitter or even paying somebody for access. I don't see anything wrong with posting a location someone is already headed to and asking some questions. As long as people respond thru pms rather than over the net. I think there should be a way to auto lock threads like that so the wildfires don't get going but still allow people to respond to the original poster thru pms.


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## The Shovla

I agree with Blue Plate on his last post....there is no pressure in ND for hunting. Sorry to argue with the Residents on the issue, but come over to Wisconsin and try to duck hunt. You'll have three groups within 100 yards of you, anywhere you go. I've hunted ND around Devil's Lake area for the last 7 seasons, and I can count on 1 hand how many times I've actually run into another hunter in the field while hunting. Yes, we pass them scouting on the roads and such, but never has a hunt been interupted by another hunter. In Wisconsin, you can almost count on it on a daily basis. It may seem like pressure to you guys, and I understand, but in comparison, to a NR, it seems almost barren out there with limitless possibilities. I'll read on here that there are NO BIRDS around. They all went south and the northern birds aren't down. Yet....we get there and limit at will. Sometimes we don't always shoot, and be more species specific, but the birds are there! It's just a matter of opinion relative to where you normally hunt.Take care everyone! :beer:


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## blhunter3

So what's wrong for us residents to want to keep our state from turning in you state?


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## takethekids

blhunter3 said:


> So what's wrong for us residents to want to keep our state from turning in you state?


I used to feel the same way about "my" pheasants and quail in Kansas. However, my $ isn't enough to support hunting in this state long term. Sure you guys will do alright for awhile, but when you really think about it, the more people that have an interest in the hunting traditions in your state, the longer those traditions will be sustained. Nobody should worry about someone else dipping in their cool-aide w/ the way hunter #'s are declining all across the country. I welcome NR's with open arms these days b/c I want their tax $'s in this state and I want their vote and the votes of their children and grandchildren for the future of the outdoors.

Go duck hunting in ND everyone and don't forget to take the kids! Come shoot some pheasants and quail in KS everyone and don't forget to TAKE THE KIDS!!!


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## blhunter3

Its not about the birds for me its the jacka$$es that rut up mm roads, hunt posted fields, drive on winter wheat, ask to hunt during harvest. What causes all of that? high pressure. Besides the tax dollars that the hunters bring in is a drop in the bucket compared to the people that live here full time.


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## Blue Plate

blhunter3 said:


> So what's wrong for us residents to want to keep our state from turning in you state?


You know how many years I've been hearing that? As long as there have been duck hunting forums on the internet. It will never happen. If anything the very small amount of hunting pressure is getting less. I just called to get my hotel room for my Halloween trip (too busy with kids, job, golf, fishing, etc) and there were 3 rooms available in a 12 room hotel. It's the only place within 40 or 50 miles with a decent room. Typically that place is locked up in June for rooms in the fall. Not this year, hunting pressure will be very light this year. :thumb:


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## KEN W

Blue plate.....you know how many years we have heard that OUR state has no pressure compared to where ever a NR comes from?

To us It doesn't matter how much pressure is in your state.We don't live there and have no intention of hunting there.We live here.Constanly bringing up this "no pressure" song and dance is getting old for most of us.

I have been hunting here for the past 48 years.Hunting pressure here now has greatly accelerated the past 15-20 years.Before that most hunters were res. and hunted weekends,then went back to work.Hardly anyone hunted during the week.Now many more hunters,especially NR hunt for a week.The birds get no rest.

I am not anti-nonresident.It is simply stating a fact.Most NR who have started coming here the past 10-15 years have no clue as to what hunting was like here before that.


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## Recurvenator

Gotta disagree with you Ken. I'm still hunting the same area for 30 years. Just like 30 years ago, still no pressure. And yes, you do sound anti-NR.


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## templey_41

For the guys who see more hunting pressure..... ? for ya. Do you think the increase in guides and guiding services has had an impact on your belief that hunting pressure has increased? Where we hunt in ND the majority of the fields are tied up by this one outfitter....and it stinks because we have yet to run into this so called guide service that is supposedly out there hunting. He ties up the land that a lot more people could have access to and spread out the hunters a little more. Just some food for thought.


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## Plainsman

Recurvenator said:


> Gotta disagree with you Ken. I'm still hunting the same area for 30 years. Just like 30 years ago, still no pressure. And yes, you do sound anti-NR.


I started trying to keep this thread polite and will continue, but I agree with Ken completely. I started bow hunting in 1958. My brother, I , and two of his friends hunted for six years before we seen another bow hunter. Duck hunters there were more because I grew up on the south side of Devils Lake. We seen guys hunting like ( I can't remember their real names, but one played Daniel Boone on TV and the other guy was Ironsides). Fess Parker I think was the one guys name, or ya, and Raymond Burr. 
Anyway, around our farm I would maybe see four or five duck hunters in an entire year. In the 1970's we didn't own the farm, but friends near said more people were stopping in. Now friends and relatives on the farm are awakened in the morning, interupted during evening relaxation etc. and generally pestered. Not all none resident mind you, that's not my point. However, when you mention Minnesota and Wisconsin you bring up exactly what we don't want. 
I was in the field a lot when I worked for the Fish and Wildlife Service, and when I had a chance to hunt. What I noticed was some years with good water hunters were spread out. However, when water diminished and was concentrated in areas with more and deeper semi permanent wetlands the pressure went down in some areas and greatly increased in those areas with water. I liked to hunt where there were ducks, but the hunting pressure took the pleasure away and I don't duck hunt anymore.  Oh, I do once in a while. Three years ago I hunted the early Canada goose season. 
I would not live where traffic was like some areas of Minnesota or Wisconsin. I would not live where hunting pressure was like some areas of Minnesota or Wisconsin. I hope North Dakota never gets that way. I have retired, worked hard to have a house and yard like I want, and hope it doesn't change. If it does, I would have to move. That would diminish my quality of life greatly.

Everyone has priorities. For some it's good paying jobs, nightlife, shopping, etc. For me it's open country, a place to turn around without bumping into someone, and just generally peace and quiet. I hope our good neighbors don't wreck that. Good hunting guys (resident and nonresident).


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## KEN W

Recurvenator said:


> Gotta disagree with you Ken. I'm still hunting the same area for 30 years. Just like 30 years ago, still no pressure. And yes, you do sound anti-NR.


I'm not anti-nonresident.All the rest of my family that come to hunt are non-residents.I hunt as a nonresident in other states and provinces.I'm just saying that hearing about no pressure here as compared to where ever a nonresident comes from gets old after awhile.And it doesn't matter to us if you come from a state with more pressure than here.We can only compare pressure now as compared to years ago.


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## KEN W

templey_41 said:


> For the guys who see more hunting pressure..... ? for ya. Do you think the increase in guides and guiding services has had an impact on your belief that hunting pressure has increased? Where we hunt in ND the majority of the fields are tied up by this one outfitter....and it stinks because we have yet to run into this so called guide service that is supposedly out there hunting. He ties up the land that a lot more people could have access to and spread out the hunters a little more. Just some food for thought.


Yes guides here have increased hunting pressure.Plus they tie up land that is unaccesable to most of us.The internet has also increased the number of hunters coming here,which is why this site does not allow internet scouting.Add on more money available to people outside our state and more sophisticated eqpt. and you have a recipe for more hunters.

Duck hunting has increased dramatically since the snow geese do not stage here anymore.20 years ago most NR came here to hunt geese.Ducks were an after thought.Now ducks are the number 1 target by far.


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## blhunter3

KEN W said:


> Recurvenator said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta disagree with you Ken. I'm still hunting the same area for 30 years. Just like 30 years ago, still no pressure. And yes, you do sound anti-NR.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not anti-nonresident.All the rest of my family that come to hunt are non-residents.I hunt as a nonresident in other states and provinces.I'm just saying that hearing about no pressure here as compared to where ever a nonresident comes from gets old after awhile.And it doesn't matter to us if you come from a state with more pressure than here.We can only compare pressure now as compared to years ago.
Click to expand...

Great post!


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## DakotaDog72

Reading this thread reminds me why I never come to this site anymore.


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## Plainsman

DakotaDog72 said:


> Reading this thread reminds me why I never come to this site anymore.


That's kind of confusing. If you never come to this site anymore how did you write this? I think I smell bull droppings.


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## DakotaDog72

Plainsman said:


> DakotaDog72 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Reading this thread reminds me why I never come to this site anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> That's kind of confusing. If you never come to this site anymore how did you write this? I think I smell bull droppings.
Click to expand...

If you smell bull droppings, them maybe you need to wipe.

I was a fairly active member for a number of years but grew tired of the whole "Res vs non-res" issue and the ripping on individuals who are asking for a little help. Whenever anyone asks for a little help it's 2-3 pages of ripping and debate.

If you must know, I was intested in pheasant brood counts and was thinking of giving this place a second chance. I guess I thought wrong.


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## Plainsman

I thought my point was humorous. After all if you never come here you can't write on here, and now it only took you half an hour to respond. You spend a lot of time on here I think. 

My point wasn't meant to run you off only point out the obvious.


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## barebackjack

takethekids said:


> I couldn't care much less about ND duck hunting if I tried, but I have to share my feelings about the culture around here. This site has some of the most rude and disrespectful posters of any forum I've been affiliated with. I seldom post on here b/c some of you residents are just stuffy and rude. Other ND residents are salt of the earth type folks, but many of you guys are just jerks. You were bullied in high school, shoved in lockers, and peed on. Now you're behind a computer monitor and you're tough guys taking your revenge out on the world like some kind of over zealous security guard. Keep running people off NoDak forum members b/c there is another hunting site on the web that will take these people and treat them with respect, even if they do bring up something that has been brought up before.


This one made me raff out roud.

Ill grant you that the waterfowl pages on this site are a huge joke (but than again, so is waterfowling in general oke:  ). I do however find them to be an EXCELLENT source of good entertainment.

However, show me ONE internet hunting forum that isn't EXACTLY like this!

Archerytalk.com......a bunch of 12 year olds that shot they're first doe, toot their own horn, yank their gerkin to phrases like "rage in the cage", are now gods gift to bowhunting, and bicker about anything and everything.

Fishingbuddy.com..........they may as well call it *****inbuddy.com.

Snipershide.com....(for long range shooters).....ever been to this little gem of a website? Talk about "stuffy and rude". "Ive watched 'shooter' eighteen times, im an expert."

The avery forums......HA!

And possibly the one that takes the cake.....Minnesotawaterfowler.com! (no suprise on that though, being its loaded with 'sota cracker waterfowlers oke: :lol: )


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## barebackjack

Blue Plate said:


> Try hunting in Rochester where I hunt 40 days of the season it you want hunting pressure. You see some of the biggest decoy spreads, best callers and best goose hunters in the nation there. That's real hunting pressure, not a few guys set up with 6 dozen foots. ND will never become like Rochester it's too far and there are too few people that hunt there.


Oh im sorry. I didn't realize this thread was about Rochester hunting pressure. The title must be written utilizing some goofy southern Minnesota alphabet.


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## barebackjack

Let me run something by you ND sueing 'sota crackers. Seeings how your always bragging about your fishing and trying to compare our ducks to your fish, we'll use fish as an example (maybe you'll better comprehend that :huh: )

Lets say you have a lake near by, practically in your back yard (I know you all probably do considering you call every little spit of water a lake).

You fish this lake often, you know it quite well, I mean, after all, you've been fishing it since you were a kid. You enjoy the solitude the lake offers, and its a big plus that its so close and convenient to your home. Normally you have "your" spots all to yourself, every once in a blue moon you see another local, but when you do see another local, they usually move on if your on the spot first, after all, thats how the locals work.

Than, someone starts a website.....lets call it.........helpfishMN.com. This is a wonderful site to "share" info and tips.

Now comes along little ole me, a non-resident. I want to partake in the wonderful fishing MN has to offer :roll: . I log onto helpfishMN.com and start snooping around for the best spots to fish such and such species.

I arrive at your little lake for a week of glorious fishing. After a couple days, I stumble on to a couple of "your" spots.

Than, one day, im heading out onto the lake to see you, the local guy, sitting on one of "my" spots. I idle my boat right up close to yours, start trolling and drifting and casting. Im practically sitting in your lap! In fact, at one point I come in so close that your line gets wrapped up in MY prop, MY PROP, you inconsiderate local dick.

You finally have enough of me and move on. You head to another good spot on the lake, after all, you have lots of good spots on this lake. You figure ill be gone in a few days, and you can have the peacefulness of the lake back.

But oh noooo, it doesn't stop there.

I get home and tell nine of my friends about the excellent fishing I had in MN :roll: . I get on every internet talk forum and tell the world about the great fishing to be had on xxxxx lake. I even go as far as to name specific spots on that lake that were great! In fact, it was so great, that I come back. Im able to do this because of extremely liberal laws that give me an exorbitant amount of time to fish in your state.

The following year, four of the nine friends (you remember the nine friends dont ya?) I told about this great lake decide to go as well as several "internet acquaintances" I told on the forums. I dont really care because I only fish there a few times a year, so what do I care if it gets a bit crowded? Besides, theres never any pressure when im there and I cant see all this pressure being I live 400 miles away, so it must not exist.

Anyway, my four friends and those "internet acquaintances" all have excellent trips, in fact, they even locate several other really good spots on the lake, which coincidentally, are some of "your" spots that you've fished for years and years. They all go home and tell all they're friends and even more "internet acquaintances" about the wonderful fishing on xxxx lake.

Before you know it, that close little local lake is grand central station. There is not a single day of the week you can fish your lake without seeing people everywhere. All of the spots you fished for years are full of boats. As a result, the quality of the fishing deteriorates.

Naturally, your a bit resentful of the NR fisherman (who could blame ya). Your close little lake has gone from producing great memories and fun filled trips, to being a huge headache where your barometer for success if NOT having a negative run-in with another fishermen. You say to yourself one day, "ill just go fish another lake, after all, we have 10,000 of em"! You head to another lake, this one a bit further from home. You've always fished this lake periodically throughout the year, just for a change of pace. You know this lake produces some great fishing. As you arrive at the launch though, all you can see are NR plates. You are too late, word got out about this lake too. You head to one good lake after another, having to travel further and further from home, the results are the same. All the good lakes are full of people. The only places left un-crowded have horrible fishing, or worse, no fish at all.

Than one day, someone on helpfishMN.com decides to enact a "no internet scouting" rule. The locals praise it, after all, we can still share tips, just no specific lakes or spots. Me being a NR though, I hate it. "Theres no pressure on MN lakes" we scream, "you want to see pressure? come to xxxxx, we'll show you pressure", "I fish MN eight days a year, I know what im talking about, theres no pressure", "I keep your bait shops open", "having 20 boats on one spot is normal where I come from",......and so on and so forth.

Now to avoid any confusion, im sure you noticed I used phrases like "your spot" in this quite often. We all know, in fishing you really cant have "your" spot per say. But, for someone that has been fishing a particular lake/spot unmolested for years and years, there is some sense of belonging associated with that spot. Likewise, in hunting, for someone that has had a particular spot all to themselves for years and years (even if they dont own the land it sits on), there is a sense of personal belonging with that spot.

Perhaps some of you Minnesotans can better wrap your head around this being that it uses something your more accustomed to.....fish.
Perhaps some of you Minnesotans have gone through exactly this, in which case, you know precisely what it feels like for some NDakers when it comes to ducks.

I get a kick out of comments like:

"Ive hunted ND for x years for xx days a year and we dont hardly ever hear another shot"....... Well, thats great you've found a spot like that. But not all spots in ND are like that anymore. Some areas, and certain time periods receive a helluva lot of pressure. xx days a year may not be enough time for you to see just what can happen. Most local hunters hunt far more than xx days a year, and probably hunt in more areas than you. They see a lot more of what goes on here as the seasons progress than you do.

Likewise in the fishing analogy, I, being a NR, only fish that one lake for several days. I dont see the pressure that it receives when im not there, nor do I see the pressure to surrounding lakes because I never go to them.

or,

"you guys dont know what pressure is, come to xxxxx and you'll see pressure".........Im sorry, but if you want to talk about pressure in xxxxx, start a specific thread about pressure in xxxxx. Likewise, most locals would rather not end up like xxxxx and would prefer to change some things to perhaps not end up like xxxxx. Believe it or not, this would benefit NR's as well.

And just for the record, I am anti-NR (at least as it pertains to MNsotans oke: ). I believe ND seriously needs to put further restriction on NR hunters, whether it be through total license caps, more units, limited lottery draws, etc etc etc. Im not saying NR's should have NO chance to hunt ND, but we need to regulate it lest we end up like the xxxxx's of the world. This goes for more than a bunch of stupid ducks too.

If you dont like that, your probably a MNsotan, in which case, sue me (maybe youll have better luck than you did sueing ND :wink: ).


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## GKBassplayer

:withstupid:


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## pheasants

I am a NR but I couldnt agree with you MORE and VERY well written note there!! Thats exactly why I am comming during a time peroid that many people usually arent. I dont care how much more work I have to put in or if I only get 1 or 2 days worth of hunting but I am NOT going to put up with the hassle of having to "compete" against other groups. Thats y I am going to ND in the first place!!


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## blhunter3

Great anology bbj. bbj for president.


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## TK33

GKBassplayer said:


> :withstupid:


Explain, that is a pretty good analogy of what it is like.

NR's do not save small towns, they do help though. NR's do not know what it is like in a certain area when you are only there for a few days per year, NR's should not be trying to dictate what happens with the hunting in the place they are visiting. Bob Kellam posted a study that proves that resident hunters spend way more than NR's.

Like Ken, I also NR hunt so I am not anti-NR. But when I NR hunt I don't kid myself and live under this facade that I am saving a town or that I have rights reserved for residents of the area that I am in. I am a guest enjoying resources that I only pay a small fraction for. I have met quite a few NR's out hunting and most of them are cool, the percentage of jerks is the same comparing R/NR.


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## USAlx50

TK33 said:


> GKBassplayer said:
> 
> 
> 
> :withstupid:
> 
> 
> 
> Explain, that is a pretty good analogy of what it is like.
> 
> NR's do not save small towns, they do help though. NR's do not know what it is like in a certain area when you are only there for a few days per year, NR's should not be trying to dictate what happens with the hunting in the place they are visiting. Bob Kellam posted a study that proves that resident hunters spend way more than NR's.
> 
> Like Ken, I also NR hunt so I am not anti-NR. But when I NR hunt I don't kid myself and live under this facade that I am saving a town or that I have rights reserved for residents of the area that I am in. I am a guest enjoying resources that I only pay a small fraction for. I have met quite a few NR's out hunting and most of them are cool, the percentage of jerks is the same comparing R/NR.
Click to expand...

Most forums Ive seen use the i'm with stupid emoticon its used as a way of agreeing with a person more so than calling someone stupid... Maybe that's how he meant it, maybe not.

I've probably called you worse than stupid all in fun.


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## barebackjack

Ill also add....

I too become a NR hunter every year. I however do NOT believe the states I hunt as a NR owe me anything!

Its not a right to hunt another state, its a privilege.


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## Buck25

barebackjack- Your arrogant way of explaining that you hate me because i'm a minnesotan i doubt is accomplishing much other than just getting something off your chest. The way you came off in your essay def. didn't make me as a nonres. feel sorry for you. Comments like yours just make NDs seem like jerks. If you tryed to explain it in a way that was more polite and less "I am great and deserve great hunting and ALL minnesotans are dumba$$es. I might feel more sorry about your situation. I wasn't planning on hunting in nd this year, i have plenty of fun/successful hunts in mn. But your posts have inspired me to buy that expensive license and hook up my boat oke: .


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## Buck25

barebackjack said:


> Ill also add....
> 
> I too become a NR hunter every year. I however do NOT believe the states I hunt as a NR owe me anything!
> 
> Its not a right to hunt another state, its a privilege.


I honestly did not see the post of a nr thinking that nodak owed them something. I may have skimmed over the thread to fast...correct me if i'm wrong


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## Buck25

and its not a right to hunt your own state either its a privilege!


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## barebackjack

Buck25 said:


> barebackjack- Your arrogant way of explaining that you hate me because i'm a minnesotan i doubt is accomplishing much other than just getting something off your chest. The way you came off in your essay def. didn't make me as a nonres. feel sorry for you. Comments like yours just make NDs seem like jerks. If you tryed to explain it in a way that was more polite and less "I am great and deserve great hunting and ALL minnesotans are dumba$$es. I might feel more sorry about your situation. I wasn't planning on hunting in nd this year, i have plenty of fun/successful hunts in mn. But your posts have inspired me to buy that expensive license and hook up my boat oke: .


Where did I say I hate you or Minnesotans? Please, show me.

I use Minnesotans as an example simply because they are by far the largest demographic on this site, that complain about the North Dakotans on this site, the cost of hunting in ND, how North Dakotans are trying to force them out, how ND does this wrong and that wrong, and in a few instances, how ND apparently owes them something.

Sure, theres a few guys from other states that do the same, but by and large, the vast majority of this bickering comes from Minnesotans. (And its not just with ND, on another site theres a bunch of guys complaining about IA and making NR bowhunters apply for a lottery and subsequently not being to hunt every year, like IA owes them something too, most of these guys are, wait for it........Minnesotans). Apparently, theres more than a few MN hunters that feel all the bordering states owe them all something. At least, that is the way it seems to be going.

And if you cant take a few meager jabs, perhaps you should develop some thicker skin.

And as far as the "I am great and deserve great hunting", you must have just naturally inferred this fact through my post due to the excessive amount of greatness I exude on any given day, as I certainly didn't proclaim anything to tell of my extreme greatness.


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## barebackjack

Buck25 said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ill also add....
> 
> I too become a NR hunter every year. I however do NOT believe the states I hunt as a NR owe me anything!
> 
> Its not a right to hunt another state, its a privilege.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly did not see the post of a nr thinking that nodak owed them something. I may have skimmed over the thread to fast...correct me if i'm wrong
Click to expand...

Its been a running, sort of "unspoken" topic for many years on this site. Year after year.



Buck25 said:


> and its not a right to hunt your own state either its a privilege!


I COMPLETELY agree with you.


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## GKBassplayer

BBJ-

I thought your argument was very thought out and very resonable. I understand the whole website thing and posting information for everyone in the world to see, that would make me angry as well. The last thing I would want is to spend many hours and many hard earned dollars on gas to find a field and then have some a$$ post its location on some website for everyone to see. Im with you there.

I think your NR arguement is a little weak, North Dakota is a huge state there is room for everyone. There are cramped areas i agree. Im working in Devils Lake at the moment and want to guess the number of "rigs" sitting outside my hotel tonight? Maybe the state does need more zones with a lottery of some sort or raise the license to $250 but to tell someone that they cannot hunt ND this year or to limit your time is BS.


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## Buck25

You never actually said "i hate Minnesotans" what i ment was that was what came off. As it just came off again in your last post haha. Its def not about me not have thick skin. I am not arguing just for the sake of arguing or winning an argument. I just wanted to state that you post was probably not accomplishing anything...I think you were trying to put it in perspective for nrs of what it is like for residents. So that ideally some people could sit in your shoes and see how you residents feel about it. But you started it out in the first sentance by ripping on minnesotans and ended it the same way.

Why would i want to feel sorry for you when all your doing is attacking me?

I realize now that you were referring to other posts now that have occurred over the years. I personally haven't seen the complaining about high license prices but i dont doubt they happen. And from my experiences most of the "you fish in our lakes"(which i dont think is a very good argument) arguments only come about because a north dakotan is doing the first complaining and a guy is just looking for a comeback. I guess i just haven't seen as much nr complaining as you have. By no means am i saying that it doensnt' happen or that i am an expert on the subject. 
I personally wouldn't complain about paying for my nonres license and doing my own scouting...
i should be studying not debating the never ending argument haha hope you can understand where i'm coming from bareback


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## barebackjack

Let me ask you something GK.

As a non-resident hunting whatever in whatever state, would you rather go every year and have an ok hunt. Or go perhaps, every other year and have an amazing hunt?

Would you rather go every year to the spot of your choosing and have an ok hunt, or go every year, but not always to your first choice area and great hunts?



GKBassplayer said:


> but to tell someone that they cannot hunt ND this year or to limit your time is BS.


Why? What does ND owe the NR? This is exactly like I was talking about previously. That statement echo's exactly what I mentioned before, that statement makes it sound very much like ND owes the NR something. Why does ND owe it to the NR to guarantee NR hunting privileges every year? Please, tell me.

I was turned down for an IA deer tag this year. Is that BS? Does IA owe me a tag every year?
I was turned down for a ND gun buck tag this year. Is that BS? Does ND owe me, a ND resident a gun buck tag every year?

Why is it BS to say a NR cannot hunt a state every year, or to be limited in time or in area? If it spreads out or alleviates some pressure and improves the quality of the experience for everyone, is that not a good thing?

The last year I hunted waterfowl with any sort of seriousness, I heard from several groups of non-resident hunters (and yes, some were even MNsotans) that the quality of hunt they were having here, which cost them days of vacation, and more money, was very close to the same crowded mess they experience in their own home states.

So, if limiting NR's improves the quality of the experience for both NR's and R's alike, how is that a bad thing?

If your only two options were come every year and have poor, and maybe a few good hunts, or come every other year and have great hunts, what would you choose?



GKBassplayer said:


> North Dakota is a huge state there is room for everyone.


Texas is a bigger state. How much room is left there?


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## Buck25

> The last year I hunted waterfowl with any sort of seriousness, I heard from several groups of non-resident hunters (and yes, some were even MNsotans) that the quality of hunt they were having here, which cost them days of vacation, and more money, was very close to the same crowded mess they experience in their own home states.


I know a few of those scum bag mnsotans and they shoot a lot of nodak ducks and geese.(let me make it clear that all ducks and geese shot in nodak were born and raised there too) But you must be talking to the wrong MNsotans because the ones i talk to do pretty well when they go out west. And if your not a serious waterfowl hunter why do you have your underwear in such a bundle. How would you even know how bad it is if you dont go hunting?


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## GKBassplayer

Keep comparing your IA deer tag to ND ducks its like apples to oranges. I see what your saying about an ok hunt one year to a great hunt another, leave that to the person who decides to get off the beaten path and work a little because there are more places to shoot a few ducks and geese besides Devils Lake and Jamestown.


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## barebackjack

GKBassplayer said:


> Keep comparing your IA deer tag to ND ducks its like apples to oranges.


 :rollin: Ahhh yes, when your stumped, just say "apples to oranges" and hope it goes away.

Its absolutely the same thing. IA has something I want, ND has something waterfowlers want. They have something I want, big deer, im not allowed to hunt there every year (unless im EXTREMELY lucky) due to a weighted lottery. Is that BS? Does IA owe me the privilege of hunting there every year? Please, answer me this.
Apparently I cant compare this to a NR waterfowler that comes to ND because we have something they want, ducks and geese. :roll: Same exact thing.

You didn't answer a single question GK. Not one.

Why is it BS, for ND, to limit someone that does not live in this state, when it comes to resources that ARE IN this state?

I know there are places "off the beaten path" right now. But like my fishing analogy and the "other lakes", these may be gone someday too.

Buck,

No, im not a serious waterfowler anymore. In fact, I dont waterfowl at all anymore. It has become a huge joke as a whole (just look at waterfowling forums) and where I grew up, a huge headache come NR opener. Quite frankly, the headaches involved really took a lot of the fun out of it, so I just quit. I also kind of out grew it. Looking for more of a challenge, lets be real, shooting a bunch of pea brained birds isn't exactly the most challenging thing.

But, I have a interest in this topic, as I can see the beginning of this "ND owes me something" attitude as it pertains to other stuff I DO hunt.

I have nothing wrong with NR hunters coming here. But when they're added pressure starts to influence the hunt in a negative way for everyone (and there ARE places where the added NR strain DOES EXACTLY THIS), than something needs to be done.


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## labman63

I feel the Res pain. I caused it to myself and I'm a non res. It goes like this(kinda like bareback explained) I got told by a friend about a certain place in ND he goes to and told us to come on up. Well me and my huntin partner decide to go. It's a 26 hr drive so we invite two other guys we know. We tell them up front that this is a place someone told us about but asked us not to be telling everyone about it. Well we explain this and everyone is ok. Well we didn't like huntin with 4 so the next yr we decide we can drive the 26 hrs with just us two. One of the other guys decide he is going on his own and brings his son and two other guys. So we tell them when we found out don't be tellin everyone. Well now this yr those two knuckleheads are coming and bringing two other knuckleheads. I saw them at a DU waterfowler party telling everyone that would listen about the place they are going to go(they didn't remember me at first) I was so ****** my wife had to calm me down. I love it up there and look forward to the next yr the day we leave. I plan on retiring in less than 2 yrs(I'm only 47) and I'm hoping to buy a place and spend the summers training dogs(to hot in NC)run a few Field Trials and hunt the fall then head south to train,run FT and HT and hunt. See y'all in about 17 days!


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## GKBassplayer

barebackjack said:


> Its absolutely the same thing. IA has something I want, ND has something waterfowlers want. They have something I want, big deer, im not allowed to hunt there every year (unless im EXTREMELY lucky) due to a weighted lottery. Is that BS? Does IA owe me the privilege of hunting there every year? Please, answer me this.
> Apparently I cant compare this to a NR waterfowler that comes to ND because we have something they want, ducks and geese. :roll: Same exact thing.


since when do deer migrate from canada to mexico? Sounds like keeping a stable duck population is a group effort, north dakota isn't alone in this.

Its not too often you see iowa helping north dakota grow big deer or vice versa :thumb:


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## barebackjack

GKBassplayer said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its absolutely the same thing. IA has something I want, ND has something waterfowlers want. They have something I want, big deer, im not allowed to hunt there every year (unless im EXTREMELY lucky) due to a weighted lottery. Is that BS? Does IA owe me the privilege of hunting there every year? Please, answer me this.
> Apparently I cant compare this to a NR waterfowler that comes to ND because we have something they want, ducks and geese. :roll: Same exact thing.
> 
> 
> 
> since when do deer migrate from canada to mexico? Sounds like keeping a stable duck population is a group effort, north dakota isn't alone in this.
> 
> Its not too often you see iowa helping north dakota grow big deer or vice versa :thumb:
Click to expand...

Now your just avoiding the question.

Why dont many of the NR's hunt ducks other than in ND? Since they migrate from Canada to Mexico, there must be opportunity to hunt them just about anywhere. How many actually hunt another state (besides their home state) other than ND? Why such emphasis on ND? Why such alarm when ideas are discussed to limit NR access in ND?

This entire issue does not relate to ducks in when they are in Canada, South Dakota, Minnesota, Missouri, Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, or Mexico. It deals with the ducks when they are in ND.

I know im wasting my time, but ill ask again. What does ND owe the NR hunter? Ill even rephrase it for you. WHY does ND owe the NR hunter?


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## GKBassplayer

I dont know anything about any of those other states but Id be willing to bet ND is more popular with MN hunters because of the tresspass laws and its a shorter drive than Canada.

Think what you want but these birds cross some fake line every year, for ND to make it nearly impossible to hunt these animals is BS. I dont think they owe me anything but unless i am wrong i have bought a FEDERAL duck stamp every year, Federal dollars for Federal Ducks.


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## USAlx50

Who said anything about nearly impossible? Ive applied for the SD lottery twice, drawn twice.


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## TK33

then to use that logic it would be safe to say that there should be no NR licenses at all, since the USFWS contributes to everything. :bop:

It is up to each state to manage their own resources as they see fit. Like it or not.


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## barebackjack

TK33 said:


> then to use that logic it would be safe to say that there should be no NR licenses at all, since the USFWS contributes to everything. :bop:
> 
> It is up to each state to manage their own resources as they see fit. Like it or not.


Well fancy that.

And still no answer to a simple question. With that, I end my discussion with GK.


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## GKBassplayer

You act like I said I had a problem with the status quo. I am against further restriction, If you had it your way NR would not be allowed in ND, you must not have family and friends from other states im guessing. In all reality most NR only make the trip a couple weekends a year so the given two weeks is fine by me.


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## jrp267

Havent visited this thread for awhile, but ND owes me because so much of my federal duck stamp dollars and so much du dollars have been spent there. And I have never even been there to hunt. Honestly this fall is the first time I ever set foot in ND and it was to deliver a boat to a canadian. And I don't plan on going back. But things change and if and when I decide to hunt there I hope I can.


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## KEN W

jrp267 said:


> Havent visited this thread for awhile, but ND owes me because so much of my federal duck stamp dollars and so much du dollars have been spent there. And I have never even been there to hunt. Honestly this fall is the first time I ever set foot in ND and it was to deliver a boat to a canadian. And I don't plan on going back. But things change and if and when I decide to hunt there I hope I can.


Duck stamp dollars were used to buy WPA's.Not anymore.DU spends a thimble full here in ND.....most of their money goes to Canada.So I don't think ND owes you anything.

BUT......you are welcome to come anyway. :thumb:


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## jrp267

"Over 90 percent of the waterfowl habitat already protected on the U.S. side of the breeding grounds was secured with duck stamp dollars. The rest is a combination of other public lands and habitat acquired by state agencies and conservation organizations." nov 4 2004

If you already bought something when do you lose ownership of it?


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