# Lab Questions



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I have been looking for a new lab pup and I have a few questions for the experts out there;

1.) Why are all the labs so large and blocky these days? Is that by design due to demand?

2.) What the hell is a silver lab? Is that just a recessive gene of a chocolate? Good or bad to have a recessive gene on an already recessive chocolate gene?

3.) Any info one a kennel/breeder that consistently produces smaller (50-60lbs) labs?

Thanks in advance guys.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Definitely NOT an expert - but as to your fist question - seek out British Labs, they are smaller by design - or so I've read. Our two are of British decent and are smaller than the average lab.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

djleye said:


> I have been looking for a new lab pup and I have a few questions for the experts out there;
> 
> 1.) Why are all the labs so large and blocky these days? Is that by design due to demand?
> 
> ...


1) lots of people with unhealthy dogs + the british lab fad probably has something to do with it. Maybe its just the dogs you have been around as well.

2) Silver lab = joke, marketing scheme to get more $$ for a pup. Bad for the breed

3) I dont know of any breeder that specializes in smaller labs. All you can do is look for lab pups with parents with the build you are looking for. 60 lbs is still pretty common, especially in females.

I posted this on the baitpile last night, if I were in the market for a dog Id give this one a very serious look. Really nice pedigree, gorgeous looking dog, and for how much work she has into her, the price isn't bad.

http://topshelfretrievers.homestead.com/Star.html


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

US pretty much hit it all right on the head.

Regarding the Silver Lab fad that some breeders specialize in, it's a crock of what comes out of the back side of a lab. Generally those that identify with that color have no idea on the true colors of labs and what can be produced. Most of those if researched enough you'll find a Weim in the closet somewhere or the papers were faked when that other breed was brought into the picture.

I have a field trial lines female that runs about 55lbs in lean muscle summer training/trialing weight and right now she's up around 58lbs with some added fat to keep out the cold. They're not hard to find actually. You'd be surprised at the physical size of a 60-70lb male too.

Do your research and you should do well.


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## daveb (Jun 29, 2006)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> Definitely NOT an expert - but as to your fist question - seek out British Labs, they are smaller by design - or so I've read. Our two are of British decent and are smaller than the average lab.


Careful. That's a touchy subject with some around here.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

daveb> what's a touchy subject? My statement that which I qualified with 


> or so I've read


Guess I don't understand how posting what I've read is a touchy subject....


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> daveb> what's a touchy subject? My statement that which I qualified with
> 
> 
> > or so I've read
> ...


A woman with an opinion........._of her own_. Now THAT is a touchy subject......

You know how you can tell when a woman is fixing to say something smart don't you?
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It starts with 'A man once told me.........'


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## daveb (Jun 29, 2006)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> daveb> what's a touchy subject? My statement that which I qualified with
> 
> 
> > or so I've read
> ...


It was more or less meant as a joke. Do a quick search on it and you'll know what I meant.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Rude - you're going to get yourself in trouble :box:


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

daveb> guess I'm out of the loop on this one - pretty sure everything round here can be made in to a touchy subject - specially when you get a chick involved - right Rude? :soapbox:


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

Lvn2Hnt said:


> specially when you get a chick involved - right Rude?


You bet your sweet farmers show tunes it is!!:wink:


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

So LVN, where di you get your dogs from? 
Rude, you have a chocolate, right?? Where did you pick your up at?

Thanks.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

I have a choco female that is out of TNT Vermillion River Kennels south of the Twin Cities Metro area.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

The really good one we picked up from Tom Ness (Oahe Kennels) - the other was one abandoned and I got him from the Pet Connection in Bismarck. Amazing what decent bloodlines and work early on can do for a pup. The one we got from Tom was amazing from day one, the other it has taken 2 years and he is just now becoming useful instead of useless.

Last I talked to Tom, he'd gotten rid of his female, but don't know if he's got another one now. But, he does breed some very nice springers too.


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## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

I got my choc from kgpcr here on this site. I am not sure how much info he wants posted here so you can PM him I am sure and Kevin would give you the info.

Hero is 5.5 months and has been out pheasant hunting three times now. He has done two retrieves by himself with a real downed bird so he is doing freaking outstanding. Excellent blood lines going back 3 generations in AKC.


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2008)

MSG Rude said:


> I got my choc from kgpcr here on this site. quote]
> 
> Where has that boy been? No posts from him in the pheasant forum for ever! My labs are out of calumets super sonic and run in the mid 60's.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

djleye, if you're looking for a small lab (great idea, why the hell are they bred so big?) you could have 1/2 of mine...... 100lbs. The ***** was 55# and the stud #65. Just lucky I guess.

A long time ago Outdoor Life ran an article on red grouse drives in Portugal where the retreivers looked just like minnie labs, about 50#s. The author tried to buy one but no sale. Don't know if it was a different breed or just small sized labs. Might be worth checking on.


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## cedarsedge (Sep 21, 2006)

Chaws

You said you got your choc lab from TNT kennels? I know Troy very well he is a great guy, hope everything is going great with your pup.

Dan


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

Sometimes litter mates vary in size. Bodeys litter of 11 has a male at 55 pounds (low end ) 95 pounds (high end) female at 60 pounds (low) 80 # (high) Sire Weezer is 75# ***** Zoe is 60#

Bodey is a nice lean and tall 68#

You never know what your going to get. I will say the two largest litter mates of each sex were the largest at 8 weeks for there sex. (If that makes sence?)

If you stick to the FT HT and Field lines you will see taller thinner more athletic looking dogs if you look more to the show lines you will find shorter, blocky, heavier dogs. (not fit for the field)

Silver labs a marketing scam stick to the three natural colors in this order Black, yellow and last but still my favorite  chocolate, even though I know the odds are not in my favoure to get a good one.

A couple of nice litters I found with your colors in mind

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums ... hp?t=32028

http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums ... hp?t=32060

Bodey (Black dog)


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Does anyone know anything about this kennel/breeder? Thanks in advance. I hope the link is OK with the forum Mods!!

http://www.greenmeadowsretrievers.com/


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

djleye said:


> Does anyone know anything about this kennel/breeder? Thanks in advance. I hope the link is OK with the forum Mods!!
> 
> http://www.greenmeadowsretrievers.com/


Not saying that that kennel doesn't breed high quality labs with good standards but for the price of $700 for a pup in one of their litters, I know you can get a much much more proven line of dogs for less than that price. Just saying. I have a feeling they're playing the british lab hype to for the inflated price of the pups.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I appreciate the input. I really want a smaller type lab.

One other question.......Would you go with a breeder that says he hasn't tested for EIC, has never had to?? Seems to me they should all start testing for it now!!

Thanks again guys.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

> One other question.......Would you go with a breeder that says he hasn't tested for EIC, has never had to?? Seems to me they should all start testing for it now!!


Dan,

I would insist on testing, even if they say they have never had a problem, Eic is not line specific it has been around forever and is in field lines as well as show lines. There is no reason for a breeder not to test, this will become a standard with responsible breeders. If some one is not willing to test look else where.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

djleye said:


> Does anyone know anything about this kennel/breeder? Thanks in advance. I hope the link is OK with the forum Mods!!
> 
> http://www.greenmeadowsretrievers.com/


Spent some time on there site and really didn't see anything to justify a $700 dollar pup. Remember if you decide to go the British route you will be limited to Black (witch isn't all bad) and yellow I don't believe you will find to many british brown dogs.

If your thinking of going that route check out this link below The owner of the kennel is Kim Olson he has some pretty nice dogs I visited his kennel a few years ago and he runs a pretty good opporation. He runs some hunt tests and most of his dogs are titled to some degree. But the down side he gets $1000.00 for a pup overprised in my opinion but again the initial cost is a small fraction of what the animal is going to cost you his/her life time.

http://www.ktbritishlabs.com/puppies.htm

I still think some of the most thought out breedingd come from private HT or FT parties, they most always have all health clearences done (they know there puppys won't go to the right homes without doing it) and they have tried to pick the right stud for there *****, to produce the best combonation of genes. Alot of kennels I look at have there own breeding stock and use it so they don't have to pay stud fees, for a more qualified Sire. JMO

See what you got your self into :lol: :lol:


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Look for some proven lines... there are some steals out there if you take the time to look for them. Just like a car... don't by it for the warranty buy it for the performance.

Many breeders give out "warranties" because very very few people use them... decide what you are willing to pay... then spend a good month or two researching great dogs with upcoming litters. There are several great dogs out there... but very few that are actually worth what you pay for them.

Scott Snyder out of Jamestown has some great labs... worth a phone call just to pick his brain about training alone.


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## Ginger Quill (Jan 25, 2008)

""Kid: Here is a place to look at if you want a well bred labrador. These dogs are not field trial stock. They are bred for confomation as well as working in the hunting fields. My dog came from this line and she is a real beauty. She is well proportioned, not leggy or "big". She weighs in at 72 pounds. And to top it off, she is an excellent hunter with a good head on her shoulders. Was very trainable. Make sure you look for their hunting dog line. They also have well bred show stock. Goggle Maktawae Labradors or go to www.geocities.com/maktawae. ginger Quill


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

If they keep improving these labs some day they might be almost as good as my Chessies! :beer:


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

stonebroke said:


> If they keep improving these labs some day they might be almost as good as my Chessies! :beer:


 :gag: :gag: :gag:


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

There are plenty of great breeders out there that only do a liter every year or two because they're not in it to make the money, they're in it to continue the breed quality. Personally I wouldn't purchase a dog that didn't come from parents that were both at least MH, HRCH, GRHRCH, QAA, AFC or FC. The lab market is flooded with options now and it definitely is a buyers market. For example, I got a pup out of a top 10 high point open dog this year and a QAA female for $500.

Look around, don't buy into the hype of most of these breeders.


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