# Hornady bullets



## Whelen35

This year I shot one doe with a 150gr hornady spire point at a starting speed of 2350fps from a jdj 309, and a buck shot with 7 rem mag hornady 139gr spire point. Results, both deer died, but expansion was very little. I have been shooting nosler BT bullets for several years, and I like the expansion that I get and the dammage it has. I found very little evidence of expansion in either of these deer. I have never had a nosler BT fail to go completely through a deer, and the destruction to heart and lungs has been nothing less than impressive. With the hornadys, expansion was little, exit wounds small, and if the heart was not hit in both cases, I think the deer would have run off a lot more. The doe ran about 100yds, and the buck about 65. I know, at what point did the bullet fail to kill the deer, but I am getting use to the bang flop thing with a more rapid expanding bullet. Are others finding this to be what they are getting use to with more bullets being designed with deer in mind? Have I just ben getting lucky with the deer in the last few years just droping on sight, or some of these bullets just tougher than what I thought? Doe shot 125yds through lungs one rid hit going in. 150gr hornady spire point at 2350fps from thompson contender. Buck shot 160yds broadside no ribs hit, some minimal damage to heart. 3125fps is the starting speed on this one. Exit wound was smaller than my smallest finger. Iknow that every animal is differant when shot, but given that I shot from a stand at animals not knowing that I am there and givenshot placement I think a more rapidly expanding bullet would have brought the game down faster. Lets hear some other ideas on this matter. What was your season like?


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## Scooter

I need to start this by saying it has been my experience that Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets shouldn't be fired at deer from a sling shot! Way too frangible I have yet to se one penatrate through a deer. They have always blown up useing anything and hitting anywhere. Now for me I shoot Swift Scirocco's ,Barnes TSX's and Hornady Interocks and have yet to track or chase anything for the last several years. Just this year shot a doe at 100 yards with 210TSX from my .338 RUM it was running away at an angle hit from behind entered infront of hind leg then traveled all the way through exited off side ribcage. The deer didn't make it 2ft from where it was shot. 03 and 04 seasons I used my .300 RUM and a .264Win Mag to harvest 5 deer all required 1 shot each. In my .300 I used 180gr Scirocco and all fell where they were shot. Bullet vellocity with 300 RUM 3276 and with the .338 it is 3376. Longest shot was a little over 300yards and closest was 90yards. With all these bullets the expansion wasn't violent and all bullets exited but the one thing in common was hydrostatic shock to the organs wich caused disruption to
the normal function of the vital organs. A bullet doesn't need to hit the heart to destroy it the energy of the bullet will cause catisroffic damage to it by traveling close by it at high speed. Same goes with wrecking the lungs of an animal. All of my exit holes aren't real big at all but all animals are dead just the same.


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## fishless

Any bullet that shoots well out of a particular gun is a good bullet. I personally have a good luck with nosler bt, complete pass through everytime 90% of my deer hunting is done with rem 700 mt rifle in 7mm08 140 grain nosler at 2950fps knocks em dead where they stand or no more then 20ft away. The best part of hunting is sneaking up on game animals as close as you can then making the perfect shot. :sniper:


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## Plainsman

I get decent accuracy from Hornady SST out of my 300WSM, but that is the only 30 caliber I have that will shoot them well. As for Ballistic tip, I drive a 165 gr at 3350 fps out of a 300 Winchester Mag with 26 inch barrel, and get complete penetration on deer. I also shoot the Swift Scirocco, and the Barnes triple X, but for game as small as deer the Ballistic tip works equally well for me. If I hunt where there are other hunters just over the hill I will not shoot the X bullet. They are deadly, but lack the hydrostatic shock that the Ballistic tip has and deer always run a few yards. Sometimes 70 or 80 yards.


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## NDTerminator

I've been using the 270 130 and more recently, 140 grain BT's for years, and love them on deer sized game. Complete penetration on deer/goats from 50 to 420 yards and quick clean kills.

This year I used a 165 grain BT at 3050 FPS out of a 300Win Mag to take a 127+" buck at 340 yards. Again, complete penetration and a quick clean kill.

In standard type hunting bullets, I've always had good luck with Sierra Pro Hunter (flat base) and Game King (boat tail). My Remington 700 300RUM absolutely loves the 180 grain Pro Hunter Flat Base Spire Point, printing sub MOA at 100 yards with this bullet and 85.0 grains of H4831SC...


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## Scooter

The best performance that I have seen from a non-bonded core bullet with a polymer tip has been the Hornady SST. I have seen this bullet in action using everything from a .260 Remington to a .300 Winchester. It has always entered and exited without blowing up and has aways been devistating on deer and goats. To me its a better contructed bullet than a Nosler B.T. and is just as accurate.


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## Plainsman

Scooter

Now you have my curiosity up. Like I said in a previous post the only rifle that will shoot the Hornady SST is my 300WSM, but all my rifles shoot the ballistic tip well. I stopped at the Hornady plant in Grand Island a couple years ago to speak with Steve Hornady (but he was off in China shooting something) and Margaret showed me around. I got to visit with the load development fellows and shoot in their underground range. I was asking them why I was having accuracy problems with the SST, and they said I needed to load them down some. I had to drop to 3150fps in my short mag before they grouped good.

The other odd thing is I have never had one penetrate an adult buck or doe. Not even on broadside shots, and I always thought they were more frangible than the Ballistic Tips.

I hope ballistic gelatin isn't to expensive, because I think I am going to have to buy some. Although I did talk to a fellow in Minnesota a few years ago who sets a 55 gallon barrel full of water outside of his barn, then shoots down into it from the door in the hay mow. He said even his 375HH doesn't hit the bottom. I may try that cheap route first. A couple years ago I hung a white 5 gallon bucket off a bridge on the river. I let it sink until I could hardly see it, then fired straight down into it. It should have been a little larger diameter because half the bullets missed. Ya I know you have to aim under, but not when you shoot straight down, and have a white rope as a guide. Anyway, it worked better than I had imagined it might.


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## fishless

Plainsman what did you discover when shooting into your bucket, got my curiosity up. :sniper:


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## Plainsman

The only thing I tested was 44 mag, in revolver and rifle and 45/70 so far.

44 Mag - The lighter XTP bullets looked like they had a larger hollow point, and they did expand more quickly. Even when loaded at identical velocities (1150fps) the 180 opened much faster than the 200, and the 200 opened much faster than the 240. At 1150fps the 24o didn't expand all that much.

44 Mag rifle - The 180 gr at 2200 fps explodes. Only particles were captured in the bucket. The 200 gr wasn't much better, and the 240 opened beyond .6 inches. I suppose at greater yardages (50 yards) the 200 grain would have performed good.

45/70 300 gr Hornady lost most of it's weight. I had to fire five rounds to recover a bullet. I think the extreme deforming altered the path of the bullet. Previously I had stated that half the bullets missed, but when I think about it 2/3 missed would be more accurate. The 405 gr BullX plowed water and most ended up in the bucket.

If you want to try this drill ¼ inch holes about a half inch up from the bottom of the bucket, and put a rock in the bucket to get it to sink a ways and begin filling with water. I drilled three holes in the top edge and attached three topes that I brought together about two feet above the pail. Take extra rope with because they attract bullets, just like twigs attract arrows when you shoot archer.

I have a 55 gallon plastic barrel that I purchased at Mac's. I think I will have to take it to the farm next time I visit my brother and barrow his barn for an afternoon. I am interested in testing half a dozen .308 diameter bullets. The SST, Ballistic Tips, Partition, Barnes X, Sciroccos, Lapua Silver Scenars, etc.

Oh, PS find a bridge that gives you 20 feet to the water, or get used to a wet face.


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## fishless

Thanks Plainsman I think I will go the 55 gallon drum with water sitting in the hay loft method. I have really been wanting compare nosler bt against the ab. Ah who am I kidding Ill check everything I load. :sniper:


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## Plainsman

Last year I was excited about the Lapua Silver Scenar so this is a good place to talk about bullet performance. Also I have been reading about people who use the Sierra Match King for deer. Some say it works great, some say it explodes, and some say it goes through like a full metal jacket.

Curiosity makes me do things against my judgment sometimes. So last year I shot four deer with the SMK's and only one traveled any distance at all (100 yards). So even though I know that the Scenar is a competition bullet I thought I would try it. The SMK were not opening on jackrabbits, but the Scenars blew bunnies into pieces. I thought I would not get good penetration.

Well below is the results. This deer was shot in the left front shoulder, the bullet contacted the vertebrae and ricocheted out the right rear quarter. The deer was at 550 yards and the bullet impacted at 2036 fps with a muzzle energy of 1427 ft/lb. This bullet devastated the lungs on a doe with my son's 260, at 575 yards, but didn't do well on this deer. She dropped instantly and the fawn returned to see what had happened. My son dropped the fawn partially on top of the doe, and when he pulled it off he found my bullet laying on the ground under the fawn. As much as I love this bullet, I think it is out for deer hunting. It may be great for long range coyote. 30 caliber shouldn't have to expand to be devastating on coyote size game.

Darn I forgot how to get the picture on here. Oh well, I'll work on it.

[siteimg]3011[/siteimg]


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## muzzy

I used the Hornady 139 grain SST interlock in a Remington 700 chambered in 7mm Rem Mag. I shot 1 antelope at 312 yards (I shot twice, my fault didn't judge wind right and shot 6 inches too far back, not the bullets fault), a deer at 100 yards (ran 20 yards) and a deer at 53 yards (dropped instantly). I had very good success with it. I never recovered a bullet as all three were total pass throughs. They didn't appear to be too frangible, yet they had very good expansion when comparing the exit holes. My rifle really liked this bullet and when I was load testing I obtained a 1/2 inch (outside to outside of the holes) 5 shot group at 100 yards, this would be under a 1/4 inch center to center. I was loading it over 63 grains of Hodgdon 4831 SC.

I used to shoot hornady's 139 grain spire point boattail, but I will stick with this bullet (SST) for deer size critters from now on.


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## Plainsman

Muzzy, with two of you having that experience I better give them another try. The shots I had where they fragmented badly were broadside, but angled. Also, I tried them the first year they came out, and there might be some improvements. There has to be some explanation why some of us are getting different results.


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## muzzy

I was shooting the interlock SST, I believe there is a plain SST. The interlock will hold together better.

I don't know what velocity I was shooting at as I don't have a chronograph. I don't worry about it much anyway, I find a round that shoots and then I figure out my drop by shooting at different distances.

Plainsman, like you I don't know if I have ever had a rifle not shoot Nosler ballistic tips well. I wanted to try the Hornady interlock to see if it would hold together well, I'm happy.


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## Scooter

Plainsman,

Do try the SST again it's been my experience that they are very good bullets for deer. Also don't be afraid of thrying there bonded core version thats what I'm doing now with there 180gr Interbond in my 300 RUM I'll let you know what I get for accuracy. Also try the Scirocco very good bullets!


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## MossyMO

SST's - I use them in both .243 and two of my 270's: dropping powder is great, no tracking a wounded deer.


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## fishless

Ive also been thinking about trying the sst bullets I guess Im bored, there has got to be other loads that shoot as well as the noslers, Ive found my 22-250 loves the 52 grn a-max and my 300win likes the 180 interbonds almost as well as the 200 abonds next is my 7mm08 it likes the 140 nosler bt so well its going to be tough to throw anything else down its throat. But oh well I see the need to burn some more powder. :sniper:


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## Plainsman

Scooter

I tried the 165 and 180 gr Bonded Core SST in my 308, 300WSM, and 300 Win Mag, and can't get a group better than 2 and ½ inches. The Swift Scirocco on the other hand groups good in all my rifles. My 300 Win Mag gets groups between 0.3 and 0.4 inches at 100 yards. The group below is the target I saved from my very first three shots with Sciroccos. I didn't have a lot of shells at the range, and sighted in with some 125 gr Ballistic Tips that I had, then shot the group with Sciroccos. 
Have you seen the new Tripple X with the polycarbonate tips? They also have a tungsten core at the rear of the bullet. I would guess a person will have to take out a loan for a box of 100.
[siteimg]3012[/siteimg]


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## MossyMO

Plainsman - Nice shooting...

I do have a pie plate with my first reloadings of our Savage .243,with 95 grains of Hornady SST. I will take a pic a and send if your interested....... all 3 shots connected, on my VERY first time reloading. I couldn't believe it and my friend with me at the range that has been reloading for years was hanging his jaw. Send me your email address and I will send it or I will atemptr to post it on here tomorrow........


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## Scooter

Plainsman that is a nice target you have there! The results you have are what I'm getting with the 180gr Scirocco in my .300 RUM with 89.5gr IMR7828. This load averages 3276fps and groups 3/8 to 1/2 in day in and day out. I also get great groups with the 210gr Scirocco in my .338 RUM using RL25.


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## NDTerminator

In reference to match bullets; although the have a "hollow point", they are not designed to expand. The hollow point is the result of the machine used to make them. It's a rather involved explanation.

When a match bullet hits a living target, any bone it hits generally fragments, and those fragments fly through the critter like grenade shrapnel. A match bullet is also not a true solid, so it sometimes deforms or breaks up, depending on the velocity and what it encounters on impact.

BTW, I too found the 300 grain .458 HP bullet a bit fragile in the 45-70. Try the Hornady 350 grain round nose. You won't be disappointed...


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## Scooter

Since we are on the subject of bullets you guys should keep your eyes open for the new MRX bullet from Barnes and the XP3 from Winchester. These bullets are supposed to be polymer tipped comprimises to the TSX and Failsafe bullets they are both kind of intresting!


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## Longshot

Scooter

They look like they will be nice bullets to try out. I just wish they would come out with the 6.5's sooner than they usually do.


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## Scooter

I wish they would too thet seem to take thier time bringing out thier 6.5mm bullets.


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## Plainsman

Scooter, I couldn't remember the name of it, but the MRX is the bullet I was talking about above. With the polymer tip, and a tungsten core the manufacturing cost may be significant. I hope they don't cost an arm and a leg. I agree with the articles assessment that they are the most advanced bullet to date. This bullet should lend new meaning to performance. The article I read said that Barnes claims the polymer tip will reliably open the bullet at 200 fps slower than the old X bullets. The old X even though a hollow point was pointed, but the polymer tip will improve that a little, plus be more uniform. I can't wait to get my hands on some. 
New toys, new toys. It keeps getting better all the time.


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## fishless

I think if I remember right the new mrx bullet will be sold in 20 packs, Im thinkin that means they aint gonna be cheap. Also its been awhile since I was on barnes web sight but they didnt have the BC listed on these bullets yet, they sound like some real cutting edge stuff. :sniper:


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## Scooter

fishless,

You are absolutely correct they will come in packs of 20 and they wont be cheap either. There first orferings will .270, 7mm, .300, and .338. I don't quite remember the wieght but I'm sure it will be the standards. No 6.5mm either that saddens me.


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## 147 Grain

Ballistic Tip Overview:

Ballistic Tips (BT's) were designed by John Nosler for violent expansion / explosion and medium penetration on light-skinned animals like deer.

For most calibers shooting fragile BT's, you're better off using _heavier_ projectiles with larger Sectional Density's (SD's) than you would normally use for a regularly constructed bullet.

Why?

1. Heavy for caliber bullets are better in a BT because they tone down the violent expansion a bit and still have enough weight leftover for a extra penetration or a complete pass-through. Lighter BT bullets often fail to penetrate to the other side of the animal.

2. The shock-value with the heavier BT will still be more than lighter _standard_ bullets like 150-gr. and you get more downrange energy on target with the 180-gr. (fragile) load.

3. Short range shots also suit the heavier 180-gr. round with a higher SD versus lighter weight BT'd bullets with less mass.

4. Raking quartering-away shots obviously benefit from a _heavier_ bullet for adequate penetration.

5. A larger BT'd bullet is also more forgiving if you shoot accidently into the shoulder. 
___________________

* Nosler says that beginning with the 30 caliber 180-gr. Ballistic Tips (and larger), the jacket's profile is changed or upgraded to a much stronger contour similar to the AccuBond (shown below). The lead core is also hardened over the 165-gr. and below bullets - to include the 150-gr. you're considering.










Lighter weight bullets like 165-gr. 30 caliber and lower (shown below) do not have the thicker contour which starts in the middle of the shell and goes down to the base.










In summary, one might infer that the 180-gr. Ballistic Tip is simply a non-bonded version of the AccuBond.










*In Summary*:

* Standard bullets generally perform better on deer in lighter to mid-weight sizes, but BT's do not! 
* For best performance, Nosler recommends heavy for caliber BT's.
* Reported problems of a BT blowing up too quickly are generally associated with too light of a bullet.
* Remember, remember.... *Ballistic Tipped rounds are the exception to the rule!*

Steve

P.S. I like a bullet to perform two things in my 30-06:

1. Violent expansion / shock. 
2. Plenty of penetration for a pass-through, which 150-gr. and 165-gr. most likely will _not_ do the majority of the time!

Nosler makes 4 great aerodynamic rounds to accomplish any North American hunting task:

1. Ballistic Tip
2. Solid Base
3. AccuBond
4. Partition

* Light skinned / boned deer = 180-gr. Ballistic Tip / Solid Base / AccuBond
* Heavy skinned / boned elk = 180-gr. Partition / AccuBond


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## Scooter

Don't like the idea of using a bullet that was designed from the start for violent expansion/explosion just doesn't fit. Bullets are best served with proper portions of both expansion and penatration. A good bullet should expand to 2x original diameter and penatrate deeply while retaining weight. To me a bullet that explodes does just that it explodes it doesn't expand, penatrate or retain weight and that doesn't do me any good.


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## 147 Grain

I generally agree with the above post, except that when using a heavy grained hollow point like the 180-gr. Ballistic Tip, the main body is strengthened to the point where you'll get the same or _more_ penetration as say a 165-gr. or 150-gr. Core Lokt / Power Point.

In this manner, you get the best of both worlds - hi shock value and very deep penetration. This is the EXCEPTION to the general rule of thumb in having a bullet hold together with complete penetration.

Steve

P.S. Nosler says that beginning with the 30 caliber 180-gr. Ballistic Tips (and larger), the jacket's profile is changed or upgraded to a much stronger contour similar to the AccuBond. The lead core is also hardened over the 165-gr. and below bullets for deeper penetration than one would ordinarily think.


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## Plainsman

147 grain

I still get full penetration on deer with the 30 cal 165 grain traveling at 3350 fps.


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