# Is a 22 or 17HMR big enough for coyotes?



## Brad.T

O.K guys to keep down the repetive posts here it is everyone state there claim and we will keep it up for everyone to look through.

SIMPLY state you opinion this does not need to turn into a rant and rave subject of arguing let the reader decide after going through the pro's and con's stated if it is the right caliber for them

My Opinion 
NO NO NO these calibers are not even close to big enough for a calling caliber. If you actaully think that you can have the will power to wait for the fifty yards and closer head shot then maybe but only if you have the will power to not pull the trigger if the coyote hangs out at 80 yards. If you want to use these calibers for close shots or you're calling in tight brush where you shots are going to be limited to 50 yds do like i do and carry a shotgun


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## kase

i agree. definitely not enough gun to ethically kill a yote.

kase


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## jason_n

17 22s are big enough for fox size animals and smaller in my opion but only at close range 50 yards tops with the higher velocity loads for either coyotes are a hell of a lot tougher than they look and have a will to live like no other :2cents: :stirpot:


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## Danny B

Has anybody ever seen a .17RF or a .22RF advertised for predator hunting? Varmint hunting yes, but not predators. 
Maybe some people need to learn the difference between a varmint and a predator? :wink:


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## cya_coyote

AGREED!! not predator rounds, these are varmint rounds... woodchuck, groundhogs, crows.... not designed for coyotes.

cya


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## Remington 7400

No the .17 HMR is not enough for coyote. No matter the circumstances, at an range, in any condition, no matter how good you or the rifle are, DON'T DO IT! Come on guys, the 17 fires a bullet that is so fragile it blows up on contact with a squirrel, how can you exepect it to penetrate and kill a coyote?

A .22 mag is a better choice, but still VERY marginal. 50 yards and down a good semi-auto .22 mag might be a decent brush gun, but a shotgun firing 00 buck will work better.


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## NTEE

I HAVE NO COYOTES AROUND HERE BUT I HAVE PLENTY OF RED FOXES AND I FOUND OUT THAT MY 17HMR WAS DEFINITLY OVER KILL. WITH THE HEAD SHOT THE EXIT WOUND WAS ABOUT THE SIZE OF A PLUM. SO WITH GOOD SHOT PLACEMENT I DON'T SEE HOW THE 17HMR ISNT ENOUGH :sniper:


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## rednek

i agree with NTEE. i have used a 17 on a coyote and got him. i had to do some trackin but if anyone deer hunts trackin is no problem


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## Bore.224

Big enough YES bad enough NO!!


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## weasle414

Where in the head would be the best spot to kill a coyote with a 17 or 22? I know you should aim about 1/4 inch behind the eye of a squirrel, but a squirrel and a coyote are completely different.


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## Remington 7400

If you have to use a .22 mag shoot him in the neck or ear. Please don't use the .17 HMR. :eyeroll:


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## rednek

why neck, ive lost deer by shooting them in the neck. or the ear i got some earings from my gal that we get out


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## Remington 7400

Center of mass in the neck would break his back/vertebra while the ear would be the point of least resistance into his brain. That is, would be easier for the bullet to break through the skull, because there is already a hole there. Another good shot would be square between the eyes, again less bone to penetrate.

What kind of rifle were you shooting when you lost a neck shot deer?


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## rednek

darn i already got the earings out  :lol: :lol: .243 it was runnin quartin away and it hit higher than the jugular and lower than the spine. right in the chunks of meat


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## Remington 7400

If he was running why didn't you shoot him behind the shoulder?

Anyway guys, lets get back on topic.


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## weasle414

Would a 22LR with Velociters or Yellow Jackets work better than the 17hmr?


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## weasle414

Also, what's with the boat? :-?


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## Bloodyblinddoors

That boat is going down FOR SURE! Some one must have shot it with a .17hmr! :rollin:

OK I'm done now


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## Remington 7400

> Also, what's with the boat?


You didn't see the THREAD HIJACK IN PROGRESS written in big *BOLD* red letters?

Just a joke, nothing more.


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## rednek

Remington 7400



> If he was running why didn't you shoot him behind the shoulder?


i was 14, i got a little to excited or whats thay cal buck fever :lol: , and missed placed my shot


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## weasle414

Remington 7400 said:


> Also, what's with the boat?
> 
> 
> 
> You didn't see the THREAD HIJACK IN PROGRESS written in big *BOLD* red letters?
> 
> Just a joke, nothing more.
Click to expand...

I saw that but the boat confused me for some reason. It didn't look like it was being hijacked. Maybe a plane or something would be better fitted for a hijacking :S?


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## Bloodyblinddoors

weasle414 said:


> the boat confused me. Maybe a plane or something would be better fitted for a hijacking :S?


He's got a point I guess.


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## coyoteman

I have a 9 year old daughter who is crazy about coyote hunting. I take her every chance I get. She has a Rossi .22 cal single shot That is all I think she can handle at this point. She know's that It has to be close and she has to hit just right and that dad is there to back her up. I don't think it's big enough for some one alone but when you got a back up gun and its used as a learning tool AWSOME.


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## LeviM

I agree its a great learning tool, I remember carrying one around when I was 5yrs old.


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## imajeep

opinions are like BEE BUMS, everyone has them... but heres my 2 cents..
.22 lr, not a good choice, however, ive done it maybe 12 times
stingers, and other highV ammo are good.
but my best luck has been neck shots or near the base of the head with something called quick shock, the bullet breaks into 3 equal pieces on impact...seems to hit something vital almost every time... 
(second shot usually necessary)(75 yard MAX)
17hmr- not much better, about the same results. but with a few more one shot kills. Problems ive found, are that they tend to blow up, on shoulders or skulls if hit wrong, but there again if the range isnt rediculous, that base of the head/upper neck shot is not a bad option....i give it a 100 yard max. how many times do they just stand there and wait for you to pout a bullet in their throat though? that makes it not the best option.
22mag- seems to be short range(100 max)
but has the ability to break a coyote pelvis and exit the rib cage on the other side, (yes it was a poor shot) and from what ive seen the 17 just wont do that.Bottom line, it has such similar peformance, its almost neglagible, but i own all three in almost identical guns(ruger 10-22, 10-22m, and a custom 10-17hmr) and I find the 22mag to allow a little more room for error. Let me end on this, success in the field is 90%confidence, and whether its a 22 short or a 416 rigby, if you like using it and feel confidant then by all means kill a coyote with it... just know your limits and the limits of your weapon.
J Collins, ME

PS by the way... I almost never hunt with these calibers normally... when i dog hunt(3 days a week) Its with a 25-06 aikley improved. i like them to fall perminantly on the first round.


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## NTEE

I AGREE HUNTING WITH THE 17HMR ISNT THE BEST THING TO USE ON COYOTES UNLESS YOUR A GREAT SHOT. BETWWEN THE EYES OR BETWEEN THE EYE & THE EAR. BOTTUM LINE THE .22 & .17 ARE BIG ENOUGH WITHIN 50YDS. SO PLEASE REMINGTON SHOW SOME LOVE FOR THESE CALIBRES THEY DESEVRE IT


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## Remington 7400

I love the .22 Mag, .22 LR, .17 M2, and .17 HMR, just not a coyote guns. For that purpose I love the .223, .22-250, .243, and .308 :sniper:


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## Fallguy

You can't underestimate the toughness of a coyote. The last one I shot I hit him slightly far back at 200 yards with a .243. He spun, bit the spot, did some other things I won't mention on here because of the PETA spies. He layed still on the ground (looked dead) for 15 minutes. When we walked up to within 50 yards of him he jumped up and started loping away. Finished him off with 12 gauge T shot.


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## Jiffy

weasle414 said:


> Also, what's with the boat? :-?


That is one of the Sea Trials they do before deployment. Its a high speed turn. We use to sit on one side of the berthing area on chairs with rollers and wait for them to turn. Then race to the other side. The first one to slam into the opposite wall was the winner.

Stupid Marine tricks!! Tis fun though..... 

Anywho, you asked!! Now back on topic.................


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## NTEE

OK GUYS THE COYOTES MUST BE TOUGHER THAN I THOUGHT. BUT FOR A FOX THEY DONT HAVE MUCH FIGHT IN THEM IVE EVEN DROPPED A FEW WITH A .22 PELLET RIFLE ALL HUMANE KILLS. :sniper:


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## Fallguy

NTEE said:


> OK GUYS THE COYOTES MUST BE TOUGHER THAN I THOUGHT. BUT FOR A FOX THEY DONT HAVE MUCH FIGHT IN THEM IVE EVEN DROPPED A FEW WITH A .22 PELLET RIFLE ALL HUMANE KILLS. :sniper:


I've seen a fox, back opened up like a book from a 25/.06, run 100 yards before we finished it off. You could see every organ in the animal so I don't believe your opinion.


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## rednek

o-yea i saw one time a black bird shot with a 300 win at 20yrds and still flew 6 miles and lived


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## Fallguy

rednek said:


> o-yea i saw one time a black bird shot with a 300 win at 20yrds and still flew 6 miles and lived


I am being serious. You, on the other hand, are just being retarded.


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## rednek

im not starting anything but you guys say the olny way to kill a coyote is nukin it. i have killed i dont now how many coyotes with 22s. some died right there and some ran. each animal reacts different. kind of like humans, you hear stories about them being shot and somehow live and others get shot with a 22 and die right on the spot


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## Brad.T

I would not consider a 204, 22-250, 223 nuking it but that is just me. You said some died on the spot and some ran how many would you say ran? If that is how you handle the game you pursue i would just as soon see you not go into the field


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## rednek

ok how many deer do you see run after a shot? all my deer (expect 1) i have shot ran 50-200 yards then died. i never got one with a bow but on tv or anybody else, the deer run after the shot. OK, now apply that to coyote hunting, same thing. im sorry but when people are killing animals bigger than coyotes with a 22 a coyote is no different. each animal has a will to live not just a dog. i now coyotes are hard to kill i even shot one with a 22-250 in the chest and it ran a long way into his den. but there not any different from any other animal wanting to live


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## rednek

Brad.T



> You said some died on the spot and some ran how many would you say ran


i have killed i dont now how many coyotes with 22s. some died right there and some ran A LITTLE THEN DIED, THEN I WALKED OVER THERE AND TOOK HIM HOME

95% of the coyotes i shoot i get back. now i will say if you got a 22-250 (like i got now)or any type of rifle, i would use it over a 22. but before i had my 2 rifles i used my 22 all the time when i was younger.


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## NTEE

I GUESS WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO IS KNOWING THE FATAL RANGE OF YOUR RIFLE AND SHOOTING THE VITALS ONLY!!!


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## sasquatch2000

Danny B said:


> Has anybody ever seen a .17RF or a .22RF advertised for predator hunting? Varmint hunting yes, but not predators.
> Maybe some people need to learn the difference between a varmint and a predator? :wink:


Yes.

Up to large varmints like coyotes


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## 15 and state ranked

Yeah i only use a .17 HMR and its almost the perfect predator gun. Most of the advertised predator guns i think are over kill. With those guns it gives the animal no chance and its an excuse for the inexperienced hunters to call them self a good hunter. with the .17 HMR you have to make a good clean shot with the advertised guns you can hit them like anywhere and there done. I'm not saying the advertised guns are bad but there what i call a no skill gun. The shooter only needs a little skill to kill take there prey down. and that takes out the real meaning of hunting waitng, stealth, and a good shot.


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## kase

15 and state ranked

so you make a perfect shot every time? you're confident that you're never gonna make a small mistake and miss your spot a little bit? doubt it.

kase


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## Fallguy

kase said:


> 15 and state ranked
> 
> so you make a perfect shot every time? you're confident that you're never gonna make a small mistake and miss your spot a little bit? doubt it.
> 
> kase


Yeah you gotta make a good impression on your first post. uke:


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## 15 and state ranked

I never said i wouldnt make a mistake but im confident in my shot. im still not saying i havent missed. well heck ive missed a lot of shots. heck i went out last weekend and missed 2 out of 4 coyotes and a fox.


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## kase

sounds like you should be shooting one of your advertised "no skill guns"


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## Gohon

> heck i went out last weekend and missed 2 out of 4 coyotes and a fox.


What makes you think you missed?.................. because the coyote didn't fall on the spot?.................don't worry, the two coyotes and fox are probable dying in their den somewhere as we speak.


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## xsnipax

> don't worry, the two coyotes and fox are probable dying in their den


Gohon if your suggesting the .17 hmr cant kill a fox...get the hell out of here. i have seen a 7 year old drop a full grown Whitetail doe from 15 yards with a single shot, iron site, .22 rimfire when i was at my friends cousin's house in Michigan. His father goes, are you ready? he replies what eye do you want it in dad? Father replies just make sure you hit one.
Few moments later a puny crack and the doe falls on the spot. so if you dont even recommend the .17 for foxes you need to work on your shot. Seriously this talk about .17 hmr's for predators is getting rediculous, yes i dont condone shooting coyotes with a .17 hmr but if its within 25 yards i can tell you that is a dead dog GUARANTEED, unless it truly is a Beast of a coyote.


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## Brad.T

Yaaaaaa Ummmm that is how i'm going to teach my children :eyeroll: Is a 22 rimfire even legal for deer out there. Teaching a child good marksmanship is a great thing but teaching them use weapons of insufficient power is just irresponsible. :******:


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## Fallguy

AMEN!


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## Bore.224

I don't mean to throw gas on a fire here but just for the folks who care to know in the state of Maine the 22 Winchester magnum is leagal for deer hunting


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## Gohon

xsnipax, no one made any such claim, not even close to it.......... pay a little closer attention to what is written next time. If you don't condone it then don't be so naive as to recommend it which is what you are unwittingly doing. A 22 magnum is used daily to kill steers in a slaughter house but no one goes deer hunting with one. In case you missed it, he said two coyotes and a Fox In his first post he was trying to present himself as a dead eye Davie Crockett expert, never miss shooter , then all of a sudden he had to back track. Just because you can hit a animal with a bullet doesn't mean the round is going to take it down. A 7 year old being allowed by the father to shoot a deer in the back yard with a 22............. wow, there's something to be proud of. Maybe old 15 and state ranked shoots everything up close in his back yard also. Only thing ridiculous about the HMR debate is someone like yourself trying to defend it's use on something the size of a coyote.


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## xsnipax

so your that bad a shot you cant cleanly kill a fox 10/10 times within your range of capabilities? at first i seen you had 2,000 odd posts and i had immediate respect, but now as i see it i was a fool. i asked if you dont think a .17 hmr can effictevly kill a fox everytime, and you replied with a bunch of other babble avoiding the question. I said i dont condone shooting coyotes with a .17 hmr because if your asking a question like that then you definetly shouldnt, but me i no my limits and i no my gun and like i said i will do a coyote out to 25 yards everytime. Now coyotes coming within 25 yards of me isnt everyday but it does happen, thats all i got to say about that.

and as for the doe, if you lived in the U.P. you would see much worse things than shooting a fat doe for some meat with a .22 out of season. Every camp, and every house in the towns ive been to their would say that is a common thing. If you were to drive around at dusk in Ironriver you will see deer in peoples front lawns on just about every other block. Im not saying i agree with this either but thats just the way it is so deal with it.


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## kase

xsnipax

first, if it was me, i would turn in every SOB that i heard about or saw poaching a deer...poaching anything for that matter. i am a die hard bowhunter and those deer are deer that i could be killing legally. the way i look at it, those poachers are stealing from me.

second, i don't doubt that these calibers can kill a fox or a yote WITH A PERFECT SHOT, but nobody is perfect...not every time


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## LeviM

lol

its Ridiculous that this is even a heavily debated subject. 9 out 10 people in this forum knows that .17HMR is not even a choice to hunt predators with. You always have that one person that goes predator hunting 3 times a year, and thinks he knows everything there is too it!


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## Fallguy

Once again, here we are arguing over calibe size. :eyeroll: As I have said before, animals are a lot tougher than some people think. I have seen a coyote, after being shot, rip it's own intestines out of its body with it's teeth and then proceed to trot off. I have seen a fox, shot with a 25/.06, back completely opened up, run off into the trees, before being tracked and finished off. You go ahead and stick with your "gopher gun". I will use my .243 from 25 yards to 200 yards and be confident that I'm going to put that coyote down for the count.


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## Gohon

xsnipax, you would make a perfect poster boy for PETA. They really love to have boys like you around and make the case for them. Just went outside to call the cat in.............. saw 4 doe and 2 yearlings feeding out behind the barn........... I think it was the same group that ate my purple hull pea patch last year but guess what son, it's not deer season so we don't shoot them. It's against the law for one thing and only a idiot shoots game out of season, a sportsman does not................ you decide which one you want to be when you grow up.


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## WIUHunter

Gohon said:


> only a idiot shoots game out of season


An idiot or a poacher... which is about as bad as they come


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## neb_bo

people have been attemting to eradicate coyotes in this country for over 100 years. it didnt work. other animals that they werent even trying to kill off were eradicated, or close to it. elk, wolves, ferrets, even deer, in some areas were all but nonexistent. throughout all this, not only could they not kill off coyotes, they continued to expand theyr range. if that isnt more a will to live, then i dont know what is. i have to much respect for an animal with that much tenacity to not do everything within my power to kill it cleanly, quickly and effectively. i dont just hunt coyotes because there is nothing else to do right now, i hunt them because i love it. anytime anywhere, id rather hunt coyotes than anything. if you dont mind an animal getting away wounded, you shouldnt be hunting, at all.


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## xsnipax

Haha since when did i ever agree with all the poaching that goes on in michigan? and i have never poached and guaranteed i never will, i dont live their, i dont go their often, but i have been their plenty of times now to see how life is their, seriously whatever that bowhunter was talking about...he doesnt realize how many deer their are in the U.P. you can easily get a deer anyday, so thats why no one their cares, their basicaly a nuisance everywhere you go, and as for me argueing the .17 is good for coyotes when the hell did i say that? people on this forum seem to put words in my mouth and that is not very mature. how old are you guys, this is effin hilarious...well should i tell you this? every coyote i have shot has been with my .270 you know why? because i have a .17 hmr .22 rimfire 12 guage and a .270 and thats all i have to choose from and i pick the .270 even tho it is overkill id rather that then have to get in close range and make sure i make a perfect shot everytime....so that proves it right their that i dont condone .17 hmr coyote shooting as i pick a rifle that is extreme overkill. the only situation say i would kill a coyote with a .17 hmr is if im squirrel hunting and i have a coyote come in to the high squeeks it can make(its happened before), then and only if it was within 25 yards would i take aim and like i said, i no that is a dead dog if i pull that trigger on it


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## Brad.T

well put neb_bo


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## sasquatch2000

neb_bo said:


> ...if you dont[sic] mind an animal getting away wounded, you shouldnt[sic] be hunting, at all.


 :thumb: 
It isn't hunting if you "don't mind an animal getting away wounded". It is just shooting, poor shooting. :2cents:


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## xsnipax

and not to start a big debate over this either but...some of you have been to deer camps, what do all the old timers say about which caliber has killed the most deer? they will all agree and say the .22 rimfire by a long shot. without a doubt, back in the day the .22 took down every kind of game, it was cheap and reliable. I have heard of stories of trappers who would use the "big" coilspring leghold trap for black bear and they would just wait for the bear to open its mouth and they would shoot it with a .22 in the back of the throat, i still dont get some of you that wouldnt shoot a coyote within 25 yards if you know your gun, to me it shows uncertainty of your shot :roll:

Oh and P.S. some people hunt feral hogs with .17 hmrs out to 50 yards, just go look on their forum once, and you will see it so blah blah when it comes down to it, its obvioius you are uncertain of your shot, as for me i will blow the brains out of a 'yote if the shot presents itself within 25 yards 8)


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## rifle6

i carry a .223 or my .25 wssm. when i'm after coyotes, andf have never had a problem
i use my 17 hmr while bobcat callin . this fall i had a pair of yotes come in @ 50 yrds i dropped the close one with with a well placed shot to the head, i yelped @ the 2nd and hit it double lung. it ran and ran and ran, i tracked it following mostly foot tracks, not much blood, i got another shot @ 75 yrds and hit it in the heart, it still ran another 100 yards os so.

it might put them down but i would not recomend it,

just my thoughts


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## xsnipax

ya i wouldnt be shooting out that far at a coyote witha .17 hmr...


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## moparnutz75

well im new to this forum and i just couldnt help but get a chuckle out of some of the posts on this topic.. I recently bought a .243 Rossi single shot. (awsome gun for the price by the way). I got it because I have found that coyote hunting has picked up BIG time around here with local hunters. As a mater of fact, there is a cash contest at work right now to see who can get the most dogs by march 15th (close of season in IN). Well just like deer season, once the guns start getting fired at them they get a little skiddish. So i got the .243 just so i could get out there.
Anyway.....
Befor the .243 came along i hunted my coyotes with eithere my Martin bow or my Remington .22. Of course its like this.... at the time i was using the bow and the .22 I was hunting from a stand and calling the dogs in to AT LEAST 30 yards befor shooting. With the bow i went for the heart shot, and with the .22 I went for the head. I know my limits with my wepons, and i would NEVER go outside those limits!
I have won many shooting compitions and not even I would say that im sure enough to take a coyote to the ground with a .22 at 50 yards or more, because lets face it, the situations are different from a shooting rest to the field. not only are we not steady in the field but our bodies react different when we look at a "target". I personaly have never had my heart race while centering the crosshairs on a red dot. (have you?)
So to sum it all up I say... Know YOUR limmits!! Will a .22 drop a coyote in his tracks? Yes it will, but ONLY if you can get him in close enough to make his eye look as big as a pop can in your scope. 
I am not a big fan of coyotes. To me they are like that bully in school that only knew how to get into trouble by picking on the little guys. But at the same time I see NO reason what so ever to EVER take the chance at making ANY animal suffer. IF your gonna kill it KILL it.


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## xsnipax

it just goes to show these people underestimate the power a gun, no1 can argue you cant kill a coyote effectively within 25 yards with precision shot placement, im still waiting for the next guy to come along and try telling me im wrong. i think the fact that some hog hunters use them has made a clear point that the .17 hmr is a small but mighty bullet, and you definetly cant argue if you can use it effectively on a hog it should def. work just as well if not better on a 'yote. yall just to stuck up with your 600 yard capable range centerfire rifles, the most shameful thing i hear of is this..."i made a 550 yard shot on a whitetail yesterday". Well some of you guys were talking about real hunting...and do you think hunting is making shots from over a quarter mile away hunting? that is joke you guys are a disgrace to hunting, i get in close and personal, set up, and wait for the shot to open up, then i give it to 'em. Making them 500 yard shots is to me laziness, why not stalk in closer to make a perfect shot everytime, that is a big part of hunting. and for your coyotes that "hang up", haha try working on another part of your hunting skills...Calling. If you make them long shots because they "hang up" that means your using that long shot to make up for your calling skills. It disgusts me to realize im hearing this information from grown men, i thought this forum was actualy decent at first, but now im realizing its just the same as all the other "newbie" forums. At my shooting club, we call your lot "shooters" because you cant hunt and your their for the shooting :lol: Take care and have fun, meanwhile ill be hunting 

P.S. i do realize that some of you actualy are hunters so please disregard this post for you select few.


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## Brad.T

You have got to be kidding me :eyeroll: I understand that your from Wisconsin and you don't have the chance for long shots but you are going in the wrong direction my friend but i would be willing to look at some of the pictures of your coyotes with undoubtedly surpreme calling techniques taht you used :roll:


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## xsnipax

no you have got to be kidding me, they've got idiots running the boards to!? idk where you have been to wisconsin or whatever you think you may know, but where i hunt i have opportunities to shoot clear over 600 yards as the land i hunt on is adjoining leased corn fields. i never said i have great calling techniques, but good calling skills works a lot better than trying to make them long shots, as i have witnessed countless times.

take care


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## Fallguy

xsnipax said:


> no you have got to be kidding me, they've got idiots running the boards to!?


Word of warning to you xsnipax

You might want to consider thinking before typing before you go insulting people on this forum. That is, if you want to keep posting on here. Just a little heads up.


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## Gohon

Brad you have to understand who you're talking to. Just three weeks ago old one shot (snicker) said *" because it is pretty rare to come across a 'yote where i have access to hunt" * so don't expect any pictures of called in coyotes. Hell in one post he couldn't even remember what model gun he owned and as of a week ago he was claiming to be getting a new CZ 452 .17hmr soon so even there his experience is questionable. Corn fields, 600 yard shots......... remember his statement last month *"we perform drives through swamps so thick you cant see the blaze orange from the driver on either sides and their only 20 yards away "* damn those archived posts&#8230;..:lol:. This smart mouthed kid, and that is being polite in his case, is so full of it and he actually believes there is someone taking him serious. He was doing much better when giving advice about his pellet guns to other youngsters, except he had to ask someone where he should shoot a squirrel with his pellet gun. Looks like someone just regurgitated a new MT and just like MT, ignoring him is the best solution.


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## Brad.T

lololololololololololol lmao thanks gohon


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## SHA

Perhaps the question should be "when is a 22 or 17hrm a capable caliber to harvest a coyote? We all know any weapon is capable of effective and humane harvesting, there are just so many parameters which determine their effectiveness. That is why it would be more effective to learn about the parameters of this particuliar equipment ( 17hrm or 22lr). Everybody here can be honest with themselves about their own abilities as towards familiarity and capabiitiies with their equipment. We all know how bragging exagerations are associated with hunting and fishing stories.

I am long time capable hunter, but am very new to coyote hunting. I have harvested 2 coyotes during deer season, but only cause the coyotes were investigating a fawn bleat call. Because I was using a 3.5 " chambered fully rifled 12 gauge, these were humane harvests. But if my purpose was to harvest the pelts, the barnes expander damaged these pelt severely. Considering the difference between 200+ lb white tail and a 40 lb coyote, the 12 gauge is over kill. Especially when you consider that this same setup was extremely effective on a 900lb cow moose. One question that has not been answered is the species of coyote. Western coyote typically run much smaller that the eastern coyotes. From what I have been learning, Easterns are about twice as big as the western.

As I said, I am a newbie; but I did attend a seminar with the expert on the eastern coyote from a major sponsor. He stated he hunts coyote with 20 gauge 6 shot, 17hmr, or a cross bow; the parameters of the hunt determine which equipment is used. He also stated he has harvested over 1,000 coyotes during his several decades of hunting. Including a 82 lb DNA certified eastern coyote. He did state that a 17hrm does little pelt damage and gelitanizes the vitals extremely well - humane and effective harvest. Of course, everybody has to be skeptical of manufacturer advertisements; this is why these forums are great for actual field experiences.

For my purposes I will be hunting in dense close up terrain during the cold winter nights for eastern coyotes. The effective range will be less than 60 yards, especially in winter deer yards with thick pines. An earlier thread mention that they used 17hrm rounds and they fragmented with little effectiveness. What was the round that there were using? What was the temperature when they fragmented? Did they fragment at all yardages or just at the 50 yards? Did they try another type of bullet or just changed their caliber? What 17hrm rounds have people found to be effective in the cold at 50 yards? I do own a 22lr and has anybody had any bad experiences with the 22 velocitor at 50 yards in cold weather? Has anybody used the heavier subsonic 22lr loads as well?

Another consideration of mine is not to be waking everybody up during the night with the response of a 12 gauge during the cold winter night. Any help on these specific rounds would be appreciated.


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## SHA

yes i see a few typo's in my earlier post and awaiting remarks about them. But another piece of equipment i am looking at is the optronics spot lights which mount on the scopes. they all seem to use 6v batteries, does anybody use these? And if so, does the cold have any affect on the batteries and reducing their affective range from their 100yd, 250yd, and 350yd lighting distances?


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## Brad.T

SHA don't know about the lights we can't use them here. In you situation would there be any dissadvantage to going to the 17 rem that would be a more suitable caliber

Could you please give the name of the speaker at that seminar if you don't want to post it please PM it to me


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## SHA

Actually its a consideration to try the 17 rem. Its just something I do not have so it would mean getting another pair of deer hoofs for the gun rack. There is one more consideration in that the 17rem is a center fire, which might be in violation of the local ordinances. The particuliar hunting location is rural but the local ordinances are pretty strict. Is this your specific caliber and what ammunition do you use?


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## Brad.T

I don't use the 17Rem myself but have seen a lot of coyotes meet their doom by it (brother had one) I shoot a 204 with 32 grain V-max's


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## Longshot

xsnipax

:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Usually those who have to state their superiority turn out to be those that know the least. Thanks for the laugh. Have you ever tried spell or grammar check. It's hard to read your post.

I personally won't shoot a coyote with a 17 HMR. I think the bullet is too frangible. I have seen prairie dogs hit center mass still run around as though they weren't hit. Most PD's shot with the 17 HMR didn't have an exit wound (poor penetration).


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## neb_bo

ever notice how the more some people talk, the less they say.


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## Gohon

Sha,

Remington, CCI, Hornady, & Federal make a 17 grain V-Max for the 17 HMR. Hornady actually makes the bullets and I believe the brass for all these companies. In addition CCI makes a 17 & 20 grain game point bullet which is actually a Hornady XTP type bullet. Hornady also produces their own 20 grain XTP round. CCI just recently came out with a 17 grain FMJ. What for, I don't know unless it was for target shooters. All the 17 grain loads produce the same velocity and energy as the two 20 grain loads also match each other in velocity and energy. As you can see, realistically there are really only two loads for the 17 HMR and that's 17 grains or 20 grains. All of these loads by the different manufactures are designed to be very fragile and fragment upon contact. The three gamepoint/XTP loads being a little less explosive.

I've been shooting the 17 HMR every since they first hit the market. It is one of my most fun guns to reach for when small varmints are the target. Ground squirrels, tree squirrels, PD's, and the likes of crows are all in trouble when you have one of these guns in your hands. But here is what I have discovered with all the shooting I have done. From the muzzle out to about 20 yards the 17 seems to be still moving fast enough that often there is just a little 17 caliber hole in and a 17 caliber hole out unless bone is hit. From about 30 yards on out to 90-100 yards it is total tissue devastation in a explosive manner. From 100 yards to about 140-150 yards there was still good fragmentation but not the explosive impact some people look for and after 150 yards it was again little hole in and little hole out unless bone was hit. Last time I was shooting PD's with my son-in-law I stopped shooting at any out past 130 yards because about every third one hit would crawl off into it's hole. Something I don't like to see. That's my personal experience with this round. Because of this experience I limit myself to Jackrabbit size game only. I know some will say it is effective on larger game but in my experience and opinion it is not.

If I were in your shoes and was limited to a rimfire and had my heart set on hunting coyotes, without hesitation I would select the 22 magnum which I believe would be far superior for the job. Remington produces the supreme which is a 33 grain V-Max, twice the weight of the 17 HMR. It arrives at 150 yards at 154 fpe compared to the 17 HMR at 108 fpe and again with twice the weight. That's a 100% heavier bullet with over 40% more energy.

The 22 LR velocitors are hard hitters but I wouldn't even know how they might perform on a coyote&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; I wouldn't think very well. 
I assume the heavy subsonic you mentioned are the 60 grain Aguila 22-sss sniper round. What that is a 22 short with a very long 60 grain lead bullet. My understanding is a standard 22 rifle will not stabilize them. I do know the few rounds I have shot would key hole about every third shot at 25 rounds.

As I said before the 17 HMR is one of my most fun guns to shoot with a 22 Hornet in a close tie but it is a round in my opinion that should not be used on anything the size of a coyote.


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## Fallguy

xsnipax said:


> Gohon are you done sucking Brad T. off yet? explain to me what the point of sucking up to a board admin. is? your a lame old dude, thats all i gotta say
> 
> what is grammar these days, thats how its real obvious your some old geezer, grammar is not known to the younger generation and no1 in our generation gives a sh1t and thats the way it is, as a matter of fact the teachers dont even give a sh1t these days :wink:


Brad remove this parasite from our forum. I am sick of reading his crap. xsnipax, as a teacher, after reading your posts here I can see you have a LOT of growing up to do. Give yourself a few years before coming back here. You need it!


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## LeviM

I agree with Fallguy Brad, hes got to go! He is giving hunting a bad name especially Predator Hunting!


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## LeviM

Don't try to cheer us up, by you leaving!!

:beer:


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## Fallguy

xsnipax

Hope to not see you again.

I was a track runner in HS and also ran in college on a scholarship. If you wish to get to that level you better change your attitude and have a little more self control. I've seen a lot of athletes at both the HS and college level vanish from the spotlight because of hoteaded, selfish behavior. What you see on TV in the pros is NOT how it is in the real world. Once again, good luck to you. :eyeroll:


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## neb_bo

xsnipax:but realy you wont be seeing me back here ill definetly be leave on my own 
peace out

finaly something intellegent from him


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## Fallguy

xsnipax said:


> and grammar? what is grammar these days, thats how its real obvious your some old geezer, grammar is not known to the younger generation and no1 in our generation gives a sh1t and thats the way it is, as a matter of fact the teachers dont even give a sh1t these days :wink:





> hat being said my kindegarten teacher also said i had a thing for reading, and that leading me from 1st grade reading to 5th grade reading and a 5th grade gym class so personaly i dont give a sh1t what you say, and i can assure i dont want to be back wow this just keeps getting more interesting! but realy you wont be seeing me back here ill definetly be leave on my own
> peace out


Hey boy

Maybe you should have taken 2nd, 3rd, and 4th grade reading. It may have helped your grammar a bit.


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## Bloodyblinddoors

I think it's time to drop it. He's gone. Bashing him now will only encourage him to come back to deffend himself. If ya want him gone then ZIP IT.


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## Brad.T

I agree


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## Fallguy

Fine. Take away all my fun. :gag: :wink:


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## Bloodyblinddoors

:lol:


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## squirrel sniper101

why does there have to always be a smart mouthing inmature person in everything why cant they just be normal,why cant we all be friends why do we need to fight it only brings us off topic and wastes everyones time :eyeroll:


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## Bloodyblinddoors

OK, back to the topic at hand:

The .17 HMR would not be my first, second or third choice as a calling rifle. In places where a rimfire is the only legal way, I'd keep the shots close and place them well or better yet, use a shotgun.


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## Fallguy

squirrel sniper101 said:


> why does there have to always be a smart mouthing inmature person in everything why cant they just be normal,why cant we all be friends why do we need to fight it only brings us off topic and wastes everyones time :eyeroll:


Because they are teenagers. For them that is normal.


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## WIUHunter

Fallguy said:


> squirrel sniper101 said:
> 
> 
> 
> why does there have to always be a smart mouthing inmature person in everything why cant they just be normal,why cant we all be friends why do we need to fight it only brings us off topic and wastes everyones time :eyeroll:
> 
> 
> 
> Because they are teenagers. For them that is normal.
Click to expand...

I'm 19, and I just want to say that is the reason why alot of us young guys don't get alot of respect. Its a bad deal


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## Gohon

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is normal for teenagers. Some of the most respectful people I've met were young adults/teenagers. I think it has more to do with the environment that person is being raised in and who is doing the raising. I guess one could let their imagination run wild with what is going on in that persons life to make then act that way but never the less it is sad to see a young adult act like that.

WIUHunter, I'm sure you already know that respect is something that is earned and regardless of age I think you will discover that most on here will give you the respect that is earned. Those that don't give that earned respect are easy to identify as often is the case they themselves receive little respect for their actions.

In this particular thread, no one that I recall said the 17 HMR or a 22 LR would not kill a coyote or a Bobcat but that they simply were not the proper or best choice. Personally I wouldn't even choose a 17 HMR for Fox or Bobcat but I wouldn't hesitate to use a 22 magnum for these two predators and if I absolutly had to use a rim fire for a coyote, again it would be a 22 magnum. But that is my own personal view and I'm sure not shared by all. Awhile back there was another person on here arguing the 17 HMR was a suitable round for Coyotes out to 150 yards but my experience doesn't support that for me.


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## sasquatch2000

I find it strange that CCI advertises the Velocitor for game up to coyote size, but they only sell it in .22LR and not in .22 Mag.

Or am I mistaken? If not mistaken, anyone want to take a stab at why? You'd think even if it were the exact same bullet, it would be just a little better if it were going just a little bit faster, no?


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## IndyOutdoorsMan

First, Let me say Hello to all. Second, this is my first post on here. Third, I am 18 and I act nothing like XSnipaX. He is what my generation calls a ***. Anyway, Regarding the .17HMR as a predator round...

I myself have never shot a coyote, fox, or anything for that matter with my own .17. It has been to windy to sight mine in until recently. I am going this sunday with it for the first time for coyote. I got this gun for Christmas because I want to get into predator hunting alot. This gun is relatively cheap compared to the larger centerfire rifles used by many of you, so ole' Saint Nick got me one!  However, I have seen many of my friends take down coyotes with their .17s. Note they were all well placed shots at less than 150 yards. So in my own opinion I can see where the .17 HAS IT'S PLACE in preedator hunting. I agree it can't be used effectivly, or humanely for that matter at distances greater than 150 yards max. I like to think of it this way...If I can shoot a coyote with an arrow traveling at 200+ FPS from my longbow and drop him with a well placed shot, why can't I do the same with my .17 round thats traveling at 2550 FPS? Like I said, IT HAS ITS PLACE.

Thanks for readin' and hope to keep up the posting here! I have ALOT of questions (I'm REALLY NEW to this whole predator hunting deal!!!! :wink: )

-IndyOutdoorsMan

P.S.- Wish Me Luck!!!


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## IndyOutdoorsMan

Because they are teenagers. For them that is normal.

I'm 19, and I just want to say that is the reason why alot of us young guys don't get alot of respect. Its a bad deal

WIUHunter I agree with you 110%! It is hard to gain respect from well seasoned veteran hunters due to my age. I have to works twice as hard to get permission to hunt on farmers land also... I hope that some of my fellow teenagers start to mature enough to get this bad rap off our shoulders! We arent all bad! I promise  !!!

-IndyOutdoorsMan


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## Brad.T

Indy Outdoors Man 
What is the grain on the broadhead that your shooting vs the grain bullet on the 17HMR If i remember right the formula for Kinetic energy is (V^2/M) so keep that in mind.

You're off to the right track even though i don't like your choice in calibers  Keep after it and feel free to ask any questions that you have


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## IndyOutdoorsMan

Bradt T.

The broadheads im shootin are 125 grains. And i have to be real honest, Im not much on the whole "science" thing so the velocity thing isnt really hittin home! I tihnk bout huntin an women in school to much topay attention! lol! 

I know the .17 isnt the best choice but its all i have for now other than a 12 guage and a 20 guage. I had a house fire last christmas and lost all my guns and now the .17 is my only rifle(it was cheap!!!). Im workin on savin up some money for a nice predator set-up though! :wink:

I posted a new thread (like all other new hunters here do!) somewhere on the site. I had a few questions there. I know you answer the same questions over n over but from what ive read you know what your talkin out so Id appreciate any advice! Thanks

-IndyOutdoorsman


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## Quacker Wacker

Today i was tinkerin around with my savage .17 hmr and i spotted i nie sized fox out layin by a grove. I shot him form about 100-115 yds and hit him in the gut and he flipped up in the air ran six yards and never had a slow death. I bbelieve both .17hmr and 22 mag are fine for shootin yotes and foxes. I actually think they are some of the best because they leave little damge..... most of the time. :sniper: :beer:


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## MATT2007

No way a 22 or 177 is not the right size to kill a coyote a fox mabey but not a coyote you need a 30-30(that the gun for the job) :sniper:


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## Phil The Thrill

If a guy can limit his shooting to reasonably close ranges, i dont see why a 17 hmr would not be a reasonable gun for coyotes. Its the same thing as when guys shoot giant canada geese with 28 gauges. Just let um decoy into less than 15 yards and make sure your shooting them in the head. If you cant hit a coyote in the head with a small rifle at less than 50 yards you probably should not be shooting a larger rifle anyway, for it is time to go back to the basics AND LEARN HOW TO SHOOT.


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## Bore.224

Phil The Thrill said:


> If a guy can limit his shooting to reasonably close ranges, i dont see why a 17 hmr would not be a reasonable gun for coyotes. Its the same thing as when guys shoot giant canada geese with 28 gauges. Just let um decoy into less than 15 yards and make sure your shooting them in the head. If you cant hit a coyote in the head with a small rifle at less than 50 yards you probably should not be shooting a larger rifle anyway, for it is time to go back to the basics AND LEARN HOW TO SHOOT.


Problem is shooting at the head is a bad idea as the head moves around allot. Factor in cold weather bad shot angels etc etc, You gotta plan for worse case shooting scenarios its not like you are shooting from a sandbag rest. With that being said anyone that choses the .17HMR for anything bigger than a ground hog must have hamburger for brains!! :2cents:


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## Bore.224

http://www.cabelas.com/story-123/schoby ... view.shtml


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## Phil The Thrill

"you really have to be patient and pick the correct bullet placement."

"The range is too limited and the bullet performance is less than adequate. However, should a close shot opportunity arise, the diminutive 17-grain bullet will do the job."

Bore. 224, Thanks for posting that article you pretty much proved my point for me :wink:


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## 1911guy

First off let me assure everyone poaching deer in MI with a .22 rimfire is not the norm :eyeroll: . Second I have researched the 17HMR for use on large perdators and am convinced that a properly placed shot to the head is an ideal killshot with game point 20 gr. bullets, the game points are slightly less accurate from my 917v but the bullets stay together much better than the "explosive" v-max's. My goal in coyote hunting is harvesting fur (pelts), I want minimal damage while maintaining a good kill ratio. My personal experience with the 17HMR is that in the hands of an experienced marksman it is an acceptable choice. The problem is that folks think that because this cartridge will shoot tight groups at 200yards it still has enough energy to effectively kill at that range, not so. another big problem I have noticed is that crosswind deflection on the bullet is signifficant and again without proper marksmanship skills this can lead to injured animals. I have yet to hunt yotes' with my 17 but I feel that It would be adequate for the job with 20 gr gamepoints. This debate of the 17 will be a long stalemate battle, I agree with the point "confidance in your rifle" goes a long way in the field.


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## weasle414

1911guy said:


> First off let me assure everyone poaching deer in MI with a .22 rimfire is not the norm :eyeroll: . Second I have researched the 17HMR for use on large perdators and am convinced that a properly placed shot to the head is an ideal killshot with game point 20 gr. bullets, the game points are slightly less accurate from my 917v but the bullets stay together much better than the "explosive" v-max's. My goal in coyote hunting is harvesting fur (pelts), I want minimal damage while maintaining a good kill ratio. My personal experience with the 17HMR is that in the hands of an experienced marksman it is an acceptable choice. The problem is that folks think that because this cartridge will shoot tight groups at 200yards it still has enough energy to effectively kill at that range, not so. another big problem I have noticed is that crosswind deflection on the bullet is signifficant and again without proper marksmanship skills this can lead to injured animals. I have yet to hunt yotes' with my 17 but I feel that It would be adequate for the job with 20 gr gamepoints. This debate of the 17 will be a long stalemate battle, I agree with the point "confidance in your rifle" goes a long way in the field.


Well put.


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