# wolf hunting



## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm curious what other people's opinion on wolf hunting is....

Someone probably has statistics on how many deer a full grown wolf eats per year. Not to mention cats and dogs!

Our neighbors to the North apparently shoot them like we shoot rabbits and crows! They don't seem to have population issues....

I personally don't think a wolf has any business in my back yard. I despise coyotes -add a 100 pounds to a coyote, give it the idea we won't shoot it....that equals a dangerous dog!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Shoot them up. There are enough of them to hold a season, to let farmers shoot them if they area harassing their livestock, and to let people shoot them in they are harassing their pets.

There is no reason we can't shoot them other then an emotional one. Its crap that emotions play a role politics.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I would not let people shoot them because they are supposedly harasing livestock. I have seen that abused far to often. I have nothing against licensed hunters shooting wolves, and plan to do it myself this fall.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Well look to your neighbors to the east and see how the government can "F" up a good thing.

They had a quota system in place based on biology. They set a certain portion of that quota for trappers and the other for hunters. They sell X number of licenses. They were starting to see deer numbers on the climb a little, they proved that wolves were one of the main influences on the declining moose population (they said that the moose population didn't decrease as of the last count), ranchers were happy, farmers where happy, etc. But what happens.... Interest groups get a "third party" to do a study ... and the government goes with them and now closed the season... uke:

What is funny is that you hear different numbers on the wolf counts. If there is no hunting season in place you hear that there are 5000+ wolves in MN. Once the season dates were announced that group changed the count to 2000. Then the DNR does a count and it is around 4000. It is just ridiculous.

Now we will see moose numbers still declining, deer numbers declining, problems with livestock and what not. I wish these idiots in the government and special interest groups would see that hunting is a good management tool. It helps keep a balance that is needed. Mark my word we will hear about a wolf attack in MN with in the next 10 years....and it will be in the Suburbs not in the north woods.

Now I am all for management of the wolves. There needs to be a balance between predators and other wildlife. Also like many hunters have found out.... Wolf hunting isn't easy. many people buy the tags and then don't even see a wolf. It is a good revenue stream and management tool. But I know I am preaching to the choir here.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

VERY well stated, concise post with a lot of common sense Mr. Smith. I wonder if wolf pressure has anything to do with the large increase in the moose population in the northern and eastern part of North Dakota? Growing up I remember seeing only one moose around my home in northcentral, North Dakota. Within the last 10 years I see at least 10 moose a year and now have three I have seen over the last three years overwintering and never leaving. Has increased population to the north and east pushed them into the plains, wolf pressure or both?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

North1....

That could very well be that moose are moving to where they are not getting pressure from predators. Just like predator animals move to where food is abundant. It is called "Nature".

This is what gets me. MN is trying to establish an Elk herd in the NW part of the state. What do they think will happen to that herd with a wolf population in the area?? Just ask anyone who hunts around Yellowstone. Ask anyone in WY about what the wolf population is doing to the elk herd. But again... Balance is key to everything. You can't let one animal run unchecked that will throw off the balance of all.

I wonder what people will start to think once someone is missing fluffy on a walk in the metro area because of a wolf. It is already happening with coyotes preying on domesticated dogs and cats in towns. Animals always adapt to what nature (human nature) throws at them.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

I'm curious whether the next step on the Department of No Responsibility is the introduction of the grizzly bear into North Dakota, minnesota, and Wisconsin.... What about Mountain Lions? Tiger? Lemmings? How about a sustainable population of rattle snake- we could start at state parks and set up a 'Natural' population base.....

All completely sarcastic!


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> I would not let people shoot them because they are supposedly harasing livestock. I have seen that abused far to often. I have nothing against licensed hunters shooting wolves, and plan to do it myself this fall.


So what would you do if you were a farmer/rancher and watched a wolf run through your herd? If you can't shoot that wolf, you might as well light $2500 on fire.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Releasing mountain lion has already occurred. I have a very close friend who is in law enforcement in western North Dakota that personally witnessed a government agency releasing them in the western part of the state. I can only go by his word, but don't know why he would lie about it. If my post seems a little vague I don't want to get to specific as to not cause him any more grief than he already has to deal with due to problems related to all the oil activity.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

blhunter3 said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > I would not let people shoot them because they are supposedly harasing livestock. I have seen that abused far to often. I have nothing against licensed hunters shooting wolves, and plan to do it myself this fall.
> ...


I see your point, but also know of landowners that shoot if given an excuse. A few years ago I knew a landowner that shot every hawk he seen and called them chicken hawks. Get out a bird book, there is no such thing, but you couldn't tell him that. Eagles get the snot shot out of them in Wyoming because ranchers see them feeding on dead lambs. In North Dakota they give elk depredation permits. Funny they all get bull permits. Don't cow elk depredate?



> I'm curious whether the next step on the Department of No Responsibility is the introduction of the grizzly bear into North Dakota, minnesota, and Wisconsin.... What about Mountain Lions? Tiger? Lemmings? How about a sustainable population of rattle snake- we could start at state parks and set up a 'Natural' population base.....
> 
> All completely sarcastic!


Given the stupidity of some people it's believable. The big problem is we don't speak up enough. We sit on our thumbs while the pseudo environmentalists are kicking up a storm 24/7.



> I have a very close friend who is in law enforcement in western North Dakota that personally witnessed a government agency releasing them in the western part of the state.


You hear all kinds of wild stories. I had a landowner accuse me of stocking prairie dogs. Some flickertails had moved into his pasture. Another landowner found some willows around his pond. He accused the Fish and Wildlife of dropping them from a plane. I talked with him and he told me how these little trees were sticking straight in the air and stuck in the ground when dropped from the plane. That plane had me in it doing air photography.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I know an individual that also shoots raptors when he see's them. ****** me off to no end. His peeve is they kill all the pheasant young. I have tried to make it known that if pheasant are unable to replicate as a species in our environment then they don't belong here in the first place. It's called natural selection. Also tried to impress upon him the amount of vermin raptors consume. To no avail, he still does it. Hope he gets caught and they throw the book at him. Personally I think raptors are just as beautiful and necessary as any other animal in our ecosystem. Two years ago I watched a falcon for over an hour and it was amazing. It would pick blackbirds out of the sky, land on a big round bale and dispatch them, then do it all over again. It was even more impressive as it was over one of my sunflower fields  Too bad it moved on and didn't stick around awhile. Could of watched it all day long, talk about beauty and grace in motion.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have climbed up into about 100 raptor nests to measure and band. I never seen any upland remains in hawk nests. Horned owles thats another story. What surprised me most was the coot remains in owl nests. I would say 75% had coot feet in the nest. Hunting in the dark I would not expect a common prey species to be a black animsl.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

The comment about rattlesnakes..... Down by me in SE MN... the DNR did just that. They made some rattle snake habitat on one hillside. They cut down trees and put in rock out crops and what not. I am sure the people living around there are sure pleased. HAHA

But it just shows you when people go way too far one way or another.

I hope they bring back the wolf hunting and base the harvest quota yearly on studies based on year to year of population. I mean taking a few predators is a good thing.

Here is something funny. A few years ago I was elk hunting in WY with a few guys from Canada. We were talking about the wolves re-introduction into Yellowstone and how it was not the greatest idea for the rest of the animals. One of the Canadians said why would you introduce a 150 lbs land shark into an aquarium of food. Then his friend said.... Yep those first wolves that got captured and put in Yellowstone called their buddies back up and said don't run from the helicopters with the nets... run towards them. We got a free buffet down here!!

Then one of our guides told a story about how he leads snowmobile rides in the winter into Yellowstone. The group was stopped at a spot taking a break and they see this cow elk come running out of the timber with its tongue hanging and it ran by the group... not 5 mins later they saw 5 wolves. One of the people in the group goes "those wolves are going to go play with that elk". The guide told that lady that the elk will be dead in a matter of minutes. She didn't want to believe a word they said. Well about 20 mins later.... The wolves popped back up and the "nice pretty light colored one" had its face and chest covered in blood. That lady still didn't want to believe that they killed the elk and thought that the wolf was injured. It just goes to show you how naïve people are.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Chuck, I was watching wolves in Yellowston's Lamar Valley, and this college prof was leading a field trip. The crap he was telling those students was pure fairy tale. I couldn't stand to listen. 
I think college was about 25% bull droppings when I was there years ago. The percentage increased to about 50%+. They don't teach reality anymore, they teach what the bunny huggers want. Sportsmen need to become more politically involved. Sadly that isn't going to happen. I'm always amazed at many outdoor sites who have so many that say boohoo, boohoo, I don't want to talk or read about politics.


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## walleyecandy (Aug 6, 2012)

We have had 3 eagles that stop by very early in the spring on their way to wherever they spend the summer -it's impressive how many pheasant feathers are on the ground under the tree they roost in... But that's not a legitimate reason to chase them away (or way worse)....

However, a wild 150 pound dog that kills livestock is not acceptable! This is not 'Wild America' anymore. Besides the fact that the domesticated dog IS the evolved wolf- I see no reason to encourage the supposed reclamation of the wolves 'natural' habitat. Neither here nor in Yellowstone.

On a side note- The Humane Society has about as much to do with helping lost and orphaned pets as Goodwill has to do with charities! They are both for-profit organizations and in their worlds, they think they are helping. ... Besides keeping canine parvo alive and well, the humane society serves no purpose besides spreading vicious lies and condescension. Rescue pets? Some pets bite, bark too much, and are not suitable to be pets! There probably are exceptions but- I've seen these rescue dogs- I'd rather own three rattle snakes, a pit viper, two wolverines, and poisonous tree frogs- then let them sleep with me in bed!

The Indians are claiming that when a wolf is killed, that it is disrespectful to the native heritage. ... Well, when the Indians take my money at the casino, spear and/or gill net walleyes, and steal my pickup at the lake while I'm vacationing -that is disrespectful to me.

Just saying.... (maybe rambling a lot too!)


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> Chuck, I was watching wolves in Yellowston's Lamar Valley, and this college prof was leading a field trip. The crap he was telling those students was pure fairy tale. I couldn't stand to listen.
> I think college was about 25% bull droppings when I was there years ago. The percentage increased to about 50%+. They don't teach reality anymore, they teach what the bunny huggers want. Sportsmen need to become more politically involved. Sadly that isn't going to happen. I'm always amazed at many outdoor sites who have so many that say boohoo, boohoo, I don't want to talk or read about politics.


Roughly 98% of what you learn in college is crap. Between the liberal agenda, and the fact that they teach theoretical crap that could never happen in real life.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

When I was in high school, for one of my classes we got to go to the International Wolf Center in MN. That was around the time that the wolf were going to get delisted for the Endangered Species. I casually mentioned that I was excited that I had the possibility to shoot a wolf. Wow that was the wrong thing to say. I spent three hours in a room and everyone that worked at the place came in and explained to me how much wolves meant to them. One girl was even crying "because I am one with the wolves, when one dies, I die with it".


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

That is both hilarious and sad. She obviously has not seen a wolf pack operate in the wild. Apex predators are necessary of course as long as their numbers are controlled, but those type of people have no clue what damage can occur in an uncontrolled environment. People like her see them as pets and they are not fido. She should be forced to put on her hiking boots and walk through one of these areas with her little brother or sister.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Apex predators are necessary of course as long as their numbers are controlled, but those type of people have no clue what damage can occur in an uncontrolled environment.


This is so true... Just look at the MN moose population. Was declining and declining at a rapid pace. The "biologist" blamed or had theroy's that it was ticks, climate change, worms, CWD, etc. They found some of the ticks and worms present in the carcasses. They never found CWD in any of the carcasses. They did everything they could not to point a finger at the growing wolf population. 
The in 2013 they collared some moose. They found 20% of them died in the first year. With 11 of them via "predators" and 10 health related (worms and ticks). So over half of the moose that died in the study was via "predators". Then the next year they had 11 of the remaining moose died 6 were because of "predators" and 5 where health issues (worms, falling through ice, and old age). Now that is a lot that are getting killed via predators. Now what is funny that you don't see in the study is that they don't blame or point a finger at wolves.

I can't find the article but one "biologist" stated that they couldn't tell what killed the moose because by the time they got to the kill site there was multiple tracks of wolves and bears. Now I am by no ways a genius but how many black bears take down a grown moose? Calves... yes or a possibility. But a grown moose. Come on now people open your eyes.

Here is a link to the study on the herd on the MN DNR website.
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/moose/index.html


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

December 20th 2014.
Setting here this morning and watching ABC 12 News out of Flint Michigan. A judge over turned the Wolves in the great lake region being taken off the endangered list. That includes Wisconsin, Minnesota as well as Michigan.
*New story said will be illegal to kill them even if they are killing live stock and pets.

**TIME TO TRAP SOME AND TURN LOOSE IN THAT DAM JUDGES BACK YARD. Stupid fool has no Idea what is going on in the UP, Wisconsin and Minnesota. If he gets some in his back yard he will soon learn all he will need to know about them.

*Ya I am mad.

December 21 2014
Lets not stop with trapping and releasing some here in Michigan. *they have this huge park in New York city that could use 6 to 10 mating pairs for starters, then there is that park in DC they call the mall that could support some too.
*We really do need to get them running wild in the streets of all major cities. Just think of all the stray pets and home less sleeping on the streets they could take care of, so many problems fixed by some of those cute cuddly wolves.

What my friend Pete had to say and he lives in the UP.
December 23d 2014

DNR has been saying for years that there are 600+ wolves on the U.P. *They say it takes 20 deer a year to support one wolf. * That's 12,000 deer. I'd guess there are more than 1000 wolves, making it 20,000 deer. Anyone know if those wolves buy deer tags? I do, and I can't fill them. Ever wonder why? This is forgetting about the livestock and pet killings.

The thing that gets me is the Gray Wolf is NOT endangered. It flourishes all over Canada and Alaska, where it is legal to hunt them. We don't need or want them here. We should be able to just shoot them when we can. The whole thing is B.S. By the standards they use, the armadillo is endangered in Michigan.

If they wanted to reintroduce some critter, why not the Woodland Caribou on the U.P.

*I fully agree with the S, S, S method of control. First off there is no limit, second the state or feds gets no money and you can hunt them any time you wish with any method you want to use. No crappy government rules or seasons to find time to hunt.*

 Al


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

They should make that judge do a nsked and afraid survival episode for tv. One month in the wildest part of the up should do it.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> Chuck, I was watching wolves in Yellowston's Lamar Valley, and this college prof was leading a field trip. The crap he was telling those students was pure fairy tale. I couldn't stand to listen.
> I think college was about 25% bull droppings when I was there years ago. The percentage increased to about 50%+. They don't teach reality anymore, they teach what the bunny huggers want. Sportsmen need to become more politically involved. Sadly that isn't going to happen. I'm always amazed at many outdoor sites who have so many that say boohoo, boohoo, I don't want to talk or read about politics.


You had better raise your 50% bullcrap to around 95%. I took a few NRM classes and I had a teacher claim that hunter does nothing except hurt the animals that were hunted.


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## marcel9 (Jan 31, 2018)

Howling or calling can be great skills to have as a hunter. Practice a good howl in order to better locate wolves, thus making your hunt a lot easier. Note that the key word is a 'good howl', since a poorly done howl or call can put off wolves. It's also important that you do not overdo your call, as frequent howling can also push them away from the track.

Aside from a wolf call, you can also try other animals' calls as well. A few good examples are calf or fawn distress calls that can attract wolves to your location. When using your calls or howls, do it from a position high from the ground. This position can widen the range that your call reach plus disperse your scent so that a wolf cannot smell you.

However, calls of animals other than wolves can also attract other predators such as black bears, coyotes, and mountain lions. So you should use prey distress calls with caution and preparedness. If you're going to use these types of call, I suggest you do it when you're with a group.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

MN is roughly 87,000 sq miles. probably less than half of that is prime wolf territory so lets say 40,000 sq miles divided by 2,000 wolves is a wolf for every 20 sq miles. times 5 wolves in a pack is 100 sq miles of coverage. Not very much for a wolf pack for a consistent food supply and sounds like a pretty high density even at twice that or 1/2 the number of wolves. And higher than the density in Alaska. And with a hunter/ trapper success rate averaging under 7% The impact shouldn't be significant. Assuming 500 breeding females and 5 pups per female that is 2500 new pups per year.Nnaturally they will not all survive but that seems adequate to replace the deaths due to hunting and natural occurance.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Dakota... 100% correct!!!

A little off topic but kind of the same lines. The Grizzly hunt in Yellowstone.... with all the protests and what not. How will the news of a kid being attacked by a grizzly over the weekend turn people into thinking that the hunt is justified???

Just something to think about.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/bear-attacks- ... d=57377499

People don't realize that management by hunting and trapping works and is needed!

Like in the thread of this years early goose season.... I have come to the conclusion that the early season has been working great in the area I hunted. The numbers each year have been going down. Which shows hunting can do wonders to control a population. I don't think they should do away with it or we will see the same numbers again. But shorten the season, cut the limit down from 15 to a lower number, etc. Changes with in the season to keep numbers in check for the local farmers.

Anyways... just something I read this weekend and thought of the wolf thread and how people play on emotion instead of sound science... just like Dakota proved in the last post. :bop:


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