# Field point to broadhead problems...



## jmitzel (Feb 16, 2006)

Can pattern my 100g field points nicely out to 70 yards within a pie plate size - give or take. Switched to broadheads to make sure everything works fine and the broadheads flew 10+ inches high at 30 yards out to 70 yards. I've been using the 100g Thunder Heads. I raised my pins to adjust accordingly and my groups are better, but the longer 60 & 70 yard shots some arrows fly odd almost with the nock end creating an erratic circle.
Would making the switch to mechanicals solve this problem and improve my groups/accuracy?
Thanks for any help.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Without seeing the flight, I would guess you have a tuning issue. Broadheads, both mechanical and fixed blade, tend to magnify arrow spine/tuning issues that may not be apparent when shooting practice points.

Have you paper tuned your setup? That's the only way to actually tell what your issue(s) might be. Also, do you know what your Foward Of Center (FOC) percentage is? 10%-15% is required for consistent broadhead flight and optimum accuracy.

Quite often, broadheads and practice points won't share exact POI even if both paper tune acceptably. In that case you either sight in with broadheads when hunting season rolls around, or as I do, use a sight that can be removed from it's base and buy an extra. I sight one in for for practice points and the other for broadheads, then just swap them as needed. I have all my sighted compounds set up like this...

I see you are in Bismarck. Go talk to the guys at Scheels, they can help you out. Say howdy to Greg in Archery for me...

BTW, you aren't practicing at 60 & 70 yards with the intention of shooting at live game at those distances, are you?...


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## Jon Mitzel (Aug 29, 2008)

My arrows are newly fletched and fly nice with field points.
Not sure what my FOC... how do I figure that?
I went into scheels and the gentleman working told me that I might be able to adjust my blade position for improved arrow flight.
Shooting at distances of 60 and 70 yards I totally feel comfortable with. I am putting 5 arrows with field points in a pie plate at 70 yards. The archery technology today helps make those shot possible. Although I prefer not to take a shot that far it may happen.
I just wish my field points would group as well as my broadheads at that distance.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

I agree with NDT it is probably a tuning problem.

Couple of things we need to know

What type of bow?
1. what degree of offset are you fletching at?
are you shooting Blazers? quick spins? feathers? standards?
2. are you shooting aluminum or carbon? what is your arrow weight?
3. are you torquing your bow at release?
4. what poundage are you shooting, where is your release set at?
Sounds like your broadheads are steering your arrows which is usually caused by a conflict of some sort between the broadhead and the fletching.

There are some broadheads that just plain do not fly with certain setups I used to shoot only muzzy's when I switched bows I could not get them to group at all no matter what I tried. I switched to a stiff carbon arrow and settled on slick trick 100's 1-1/8" broadheads on the advice of a friend and for mechanicals I shoot Rage 2 blade 100's and Spitfire pro 100's. I now can shoot about any point I want including field points and have a consistent group without changing any pin positions. The muzzy's still fly very nice with my other bow.

I shoot out to 80 just for the heck of it from time to time but my 40 pin is set so 40 is just above the pin and 50 is just below that is my max kill zone.

Bob


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## Jon Mitzel (Aug 29, 2008)

It's a Bowtech Allegiance with standard right helical vanes. The arrows are Gold Tip 5575. I don't believe I'm torquing the bow at release, but not 100% sure. Pulling back exactly 64 lbs.
Bob, I'm not sure what you mean by where my release is set at, but it's several years old. It's an old Cobra.
From what I can gather my broadheads are simply going to fly different than my field points and won't nearly group as well as the field points.
Does it make more sense to be shooting fixed blades from a stand for whitetails and shooting mechanical for antelope on the prairie? If I can't get my fixed to fly accurate at 60 yo 70 yards I'm thinking mechanicals offer better flight and accuracy. Does that make sense to you guys?


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## walkswithwhispers (Sep 18, 2007)

What sort of arrow rest? A whisker biscuit is a bit more forgiving if it's a little too far left or right, which I think may be your problem. If your arrow rest is slightly off of center your arrow will kick out to one side or the other and the more it's off the larger a spiral you will have. As stated previously, your broadheads will amplify this action.

If you really want to syncronize your broadheads with your vanes, screw your broadheads into the arrow inserts before gluing them into fresh cut arrows and line up the blades with the vanes before the glue sets.

As far as talking to the guys at Scheels, this may be, "above their pay grade". No offense to those guys but retail guys in general are not always the best place to go for trouble shooting. Nothing personal, not criticizing, I just find that if it's something I can't figure out myself there's a pretty good chance that those guys won't know. It's not like they're stupid or jerks or something, it's just that everyone assumes they're experts so they themselves assume they're experts and they'll tell you something just to give you an answer. I imagine I would catch myself doing the same thing if I were them. Wish I could help you out more but I'm no expert myself and I now live in Fargo. I know a couple guys here I would send you to for help...

Happy hunting!! Season starts tomorrow!!

:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Good bow!

I am not familiar with that release, What I meant was many mechanical releases have sensitivity adjustments. I shoot a true-ball and I have it set so i just need to tickle it to release the arrow. It is the same principal as shooting a gun try not to jerk the trigger. When you release your arrow it should be almost surprising when it releases

As for torque. are you gripping the bow hard or do you cradle it in your hand with your fingers closed? is your elbow rotated out when you shoot.

Just remember this simple rule; "Relax and let the bow do the work" at the ranges you are shooting sometimes we concentrate on seeing the target so hard that we stiffen up without realizing it.

Here is a suggestion. Have one of your arrows fletched with 2" blazer vanes with a 1 degree right offset and shoot it with yor broadhead. shoot it several times and see if you get a consistent pattern.

It is not always the case to have broadheads fly differently than field points there will be a slight difference if everything is tuned properly. If all else fails I would suggest that you take your bow into the pro-shop of your choice have them tune it for you and shoot it. Most all of them have a range and target in store to shoot.

Good Luck!


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## walkswithwhispers (Sep 18, 2007)

Bob is right on about the torque. In my case, my bow has a 5 3/4 inch brace height and at 70lbs it likes to jump. When I practice a lot in the pre-season while it's hot outside my hands get very sweaty and it slips off of the point of contact on the heal of my hand. I have black tennis tape wrapped around my handle. It's a cheap and very helpful fix that was suggested to me by someone. Point is, your bow can unintentionally move even without overgripping the handle and torquing it.

One other thing, all of my arrows are numbered so that I know if something is different with a particular arrow.

Try shooting a broadhead on an arrow with NO vanes and see how it acts.


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## ics400 (Oct 12, 2007)

I think the key is you said some of your arrows fly odd. This tells me you have a broadhead alignment problem with those arrows. Spin test those arrows by spinning on a non-slip hard surface on the tip of the broadhead. Look for any wobble. If there is, then take broad head out and reinstall again. If this doesn't work the insert may be in off center or the end may not be square. You can get a squaring device to true up the flat contact surface of the insert to be square with the arrow. If all your arrows fly weird, then look for a tuning or form issue.


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## Hick-From-Hell (Mar 18, 2008)

nothing against your pie plate theory but if I can't keep them within a softball I think I need to pratice more and that is at 60 yards which I pratice at. Actaul shooting I would possibly go to 50 if all conditions where perfect and I desperitally needed a deer, otherwise another one will come closer sometime. At 60 yards there is about a 1 sec delay and a deer can do alot in 1 sec. just my opinion.


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## bretts (Feb 24, 2004)

definitely agree, a lot of things can go wrong if your "within a pie plate"


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## ics400 (Oct 12, 2007)

I agree on the shooting at game at those distances, however practicing at longer distances makes for a better archer at the shorter ranges. It will also show the problem that generated the original post. If you can get the whole set up to shoot clean at 50+, 40 and under is a non issue.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Greg Eider at Scheels in Bismarck is top notch and has forgotten more about tuning bows than most guys know. Same with Jason Zins at the Fargo Scheels...

There are so many factors involved in tuning a compound that it's nearly impossible to really help online. Fortunately because of the adjustability of rests, you can tune a compound to shoot any arrow well that's reasonably close in spine (which is why carbons can list such wide spine variance).

With recurves, we guys that also shoot Trad have to tune the arrow to the bow. With the bow itself we only have brace height and nock point height to work with, so once a ballpark brace height & nock point is established, the shaft gradually shortened (increases spine) while experimenting with point/front end weight being added or removed (more weight decreases spine).

Your broadhead can be a problem too. Not trying to start any stinks, but I've never had good luck with consistent flight using Muzzy's. Virtually any 6 new broadheads I set up out of the package, I reject one or two that simply won't spin true on a shaft.

Frankly, the most consistently true and accurate broadheads I've tried and use with as many setups as possible are Magnus 2 blades. Ironically, they are the cheapest costing broadheads around, and also have a lifetime replacement guarantee if you ever break one...

Rather than go into explaining FOC here, just Google it. A lot of guys overlook this critical item. 10-15% FOC with broadheads is for compounds, many Trad shooters go way beyond that....


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## walkswithwhispers (Sep 18, 2007)

ND Terminator,

Yes, Jason at Scheels is very knowledgeable. Nothing wrong with his work at all. Al could write a book! Just a little leary about many of the young guys...

Glad to hear somebody else can see how great the magnus 2-blades are!! I've been using those for the last couple of years but I'm going to a smaller 3-blade this year because I wanted to drop some serious weight from my arrow. If these new broadheads don't work out for me I'm going to switch to 100 gr 2 blade magnus. I'll have to have them ordered.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

My wife uses the 100 grain Magnus two blades with her #45 Matthews & bumps off deer w/o breaking a sweat...

I use the 125's with my recurves and Hoyt Caribou (shot barebow/fingers). When I run out of 100 grain Wasp HT Cam Loks and Boss SST's, I"m going to switch to the 100 grain Magus for my compounds I shoot with sights/release...


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## mrb (Aug 22, 2007)

MAYBE i'M NEW BUT BUT SHOOTING GAME AT 70 YARDS WITH A BOW, WHAT ABOUT THE LOSS OF ENERGY!! AT THAT RANGE TO MAKE CLEAN KILLS!!, AND A PIE PLATE IS A BIG TARGET, IF YOU WERE GROUPING 3 INCHES, AT 70, THATS ANOTHER THING, BUT ENERGY IS STILL A BIG WORRY TO ME!!
WHY NOT JUST TRY DIFFERENT BROADHEADS, SOME FLY BETTER OUT OF DIFFERENT SET UP!!


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## jmitzel (Feb 16, 2006)

I adjusted my sights accordingly to my broadheads. Had a small antelope buck walk to our decoy. At 60 yards I drew back and connected through his front right shoulder and it exited just behind his left shoulder.
Appears to be enough energy at that distance


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## mrb (Aug 22, 2007)

whitetails, have thicker skin, that pronghorns, so. something to think about, and don't forget, that just becauce you can do something doesn't mean you should, I can hit a clay bird at 1200 yards, but doesn't mean i should be shooting deer at that range!! see what i mean!


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

I have to agree, pronghorns are pretty wussy compared to whitetails and whitetails are pretty wussy compared to most other things. Thinner skinned, finer bone structure, and those big lungs bleed out reeeeeeaaaaalllll fast.


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