# Retriever Problems



## ChocolateMuse (Jan 19, 2010)

I currently have a 3 year old Lab. that has been force fetched. He has no problems picking up pheasants, ducks, doves. But still wants nothing to do with geese. Any ideas on training methods to utilize that make his progression faster or will it just come in time.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Teach how to pick up the goose by possibly working your way up with larger objects such as starting a fetch session with bumpers, then small ducks, larger ducks, snow geese if you can get your hands on one or a canadian without the breast meat in for weight reduction, then the real deal.

Teach then reinforce.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

I added a segment at the end of my force fetching program that introduced 2.5 pound dumbell and 5 pound dumbell to the regiment. My pup didn't want anything to do with the weight when I introduced the weighted dumbells. Two days of forcing with the weight and he was just as anxious to retrieve them as the paint roller,bumpers and birds. He never even thought there was any difference when retrieving geese.
And what Chaws said, teach first, then force. :beer: 
FWIW


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## ChocolateMuse (Jan 19, 2010)

Thanks for all the input so far I will attempt them all. Guess I may be getting a little impatient. Hope get a goose this weekend to train with but the season down here has been crazy. Not alot flying in Va. Think it may be the weather.


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## ChocolateMuse (Jan 19, 2010)

Okay guys here's the scoop. Worked with a duck bumper yesterday and a goose bumper he did well. Moved to a dead goose that was shot over the weekend and he went out and smelled then licked it and began to grab it at the neck as if trying to pull it. When the feathers started to come out, he he kept getting mouth full's and attempted to drag it. But would not pick it up. So I held it and put in his his mouthy and instructed him to hold and began walking him while assisting. We walked about 10' and he sat and wehen I let go from assisting him he gradually dropped it to the ground. Was I right in doing what I did or am I trying to progress to quickly. Open for suggestions, this is his 2nd. year hunting and is very obediant but wants nothing to do with picking up a goose.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Ok, you've taught the dog to hold the goose. Continue to teach that while the dog is sitting and once that's doing well for a period of time, continue to walking hold of the goose. Then start the force fetch process of pinching the ear and commanding fetch just like during the original force fetch process. Start with it in your hand and pinch to it and work your way to the ground.

If the dog is truly forced, you should be able to ear pinch or force the dog directly to the goose on the ground after teaching the hold of the goose. I have a feeling this dog hasn't been force though or forced very well.


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## ChocolateMuse (Jan 19, 2010)

My thoughts are the same as the trainer who had him I don't think put alot of pressure on him and he was well aware that I mostly Goose hunted and Pheasant hunted occassionally. But after yesterday I had the same feeling that I was going to have to go through the entire process again myslf. How disheartening when I truly wanted him to do well this season. As he will be 4 in Sept.


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## ChocolateMuse (Jan 19, 2010)

Ok Chaws, holding goose well but I am putting in his mouth and instructing to hold and he does. Did this yesterday about 3-5 times and even walked about 10 ' without any assistance holding. This goose is heavy, didn't take breast out and is frozen hard so I pulled the wings out so he could get a hold of. Am I doing the right thing ? What do you think of continuing to hunt him while doing this ? Please advise, don't want to hurt my progress.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

Sure, sounds good. If he drops it are you ear pinching and commanding fetch? If he really isn't force fetched and refuses you'll want to go through that whole training process then. He'll also get more comfortable retrieving larger birds with more experience.


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## ChocolateMuse (Jan 19, 2010)

Chaws,
Didn't hardly want to hold the goose today. And when he dropped it and I forced him to it, he just turned away. So I gave it a break for about 3 hours and I started with the goose bumper then a 3 lb. dumbell then to the frozen goose of which he held fine with some assistance and I walked him while giving assistance. It appeared he was having fun as the tail was wagging. My thoughts are that I am going to have to go through the entire process to get him pick it up. Although I pitched the goose out about 6 - 8 feet and gave him the command to fetch and he went out and attempted to pick it up and when he did and got a mouth full of feathers he continued to pull feathers out and once he got a hold he dragged it back. What's your thoughts ?


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

As expected, you're attempting to force a dog that hasn't been properly force broke. Either find a trainer to do it or get yourself a good training program such as Fowl Dogs or Evan Grahams "Smart Fetch."


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## ChocolateMuse (Jan 19, 2010)

Chaws,
I had him with a trainer last summer who has been training retrievers for 40 years but I didn't think he put enough pressure on him. So I have started over myself and gradually increasing the weight. Seems to be working fine. Will keep you posted and thanks for the info.I have ordered the Fowl Dogs 3 set DVD. Hope this helps me out. Will keep you posted.


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## Chaws (Oct 12, 2007)

ChocolateMuse said:


> Chaws,
> I had him with a trainer last summer who has been training retrievers for 40 years but I didn't think he put enough pressure on him. So I have started over myself and gradually increasing the weight. Seems to be working fine. Will keep you posted and thanks for the info.I have ordered the Fowl Dogs 3 set DVD. Hope this helps me out. Will keep you posted.


That should work good for you. I believe it's disk 1 that has the parts covering force fetch. Make sure when you're doing it you're understanding the dogs reactions to the pressure and why the dog is giving those reactions. A lot of people will go through the pinching and not understand those things to then realize they didn't put enough pressure on the dog and the dog was simply complying to the command but not pressure conditioned to the command.

If you know of anyone that has forced a few dogs, have them help you out as an outsider looking at the training process is very beneficial.


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