# Game On!



## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

I don't start chasing coyotes til toward the end of October when the hides are 95+ prime. It's just a personal preference but I don't like leaving them in the field without trying to make some use of them.

Well, looks like I'm going to get a jump this year. Got home last night from the 'Rider game and had a message from a lady on whose land I've called in the past. Seems she's got a yote problem with her sheep.

Actually a big yote problem. I phoned her this morning and she said coyotes have killed three of her ewes the last week. At $150 a ewe that's a big hit. She's desperate to get some of the bad guys whacked.

We've got quite a few coyotes in this part of the country and it's going to get worse (or better, depending on your perspective). Prices have dropped drastically the last year so some of the guys who trapped or snared to make an extra few bucks are finding it's not worth the trouble.

What are you guys down south seeing? Is there enough sport hunting to keep the numbers down regardless of the price or are yote populations on the upswing in your neck of the woods? Anyone getting the same kind of calls from farmers/ranchers who've been having yote depredation problems?

In the meantime, it's "Game On" starting tomorrow morning.

Good luck and shoot straight. Saskcoyote


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

saskcoyote said:


> What are you guys down south seeing? Is there enough sport hunting to keep the numbers down regardless of the price or are yote populations on the upswing in your neck of the woods?


 :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Sport hunters dont amount to a spit in the ocean, tough to kill coyotes when most of em dont leave the pickup cab!

Populations seem to fluctuate, some years an area is thick with em, other years not so much.

One things for sure, they are everywhere, as to whether youd call their population "high" all over the place is another.


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## treedogguy (Aug 23, 2009)

in my part of the country we have planty of coyotes, and each year there seems to be more. But every year it gets harder to find a place to hunt. so in part more coyotes. 
we are headed up to some public ground this weekend to see if we can find a few.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

here in central wyoming, hunting pressure is extremely high. however, 75% of the guys don't even keep them. of those that do, half don't put up the fur, they just freeze them and sell the dog on the carcass. our trappers are packing it up though. i will be out there, hitting them yoters hard once i return from my annual north dakota bird run. mid november has them looking nice and i love to handle the fur. i also don't hunt them outside the pelting months, i have gained more respect and admiration for them every year. i am going to home tan them after this winter and go into the business of making a few comforters. fur prices are pathetic, yet people pay thousands for a bed spread. go figure. we're getting hosed.
as far as numbers go, our governor allocated a gob of money for "predator control" the last 2 years. what this means is that aerial gunners killed off 85% of our coyotes in 4 counties last 2 years. they were even kind enough to do it during the big game hunting seasons to screw that up too! last year, in natrona county alone, the body count was already past 2000 before christmas. they use a carpet bombing approach rather than target area that actually have sheep on them. but since the oil and gas industry went bust recently, that extra money has dried up(mineral royalties feed this state). i expect to see lots of young, bold coyotes this winter.  time to finish my newest coyote rifle! :sniper:


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

barebackjack wrote

Sport hunters dont amount to a spit in the ocean, tough to kill coyotes when most of em dont leave the pickup cab!

If I was a coyote and knew somebody wanted to shoot my a-- off, I wouldn't get out of the pickup cab either.

:rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Up here, our coyotes aren't that smart although I've had a few of them go for a ride in the box of my pickup -- after I've put a hole in 'em.

:beer: [/b]


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i once had a live one ride in the back of my truck. i thought all 3 were dead. i got home that night after a 2 hour drive in temps near zero. first dog out was froze pretty good, second one was real toasty and warm...


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## Spanker (Jun 27, 2007)

I'll bet that was an eye-opener!
D'oh!


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## SaberX01 (Sep 25, 2009)

saskcoyote said:


> What are you guys down south seeing? Is there enough sport hunting to keep the numbers down regardless of the price or are yote populations on the upswing in your neck of the woods? Anyone getting the same kind of calls from farmers/ranchers who've been having yote depredation problems?
> 
> In the meantime, it's "Game On" starting tomorrow morning.
> 
> Saskcoyote


Yep, my neighbors are complaining about Goats & Chickens vanishing. I've been hearing yotes in the evening on a regular basis all summer. Seems the numbers are way up compared to last year, buts that not from a site count. Probably due to the mild winters we have the last 3 years. The Elk are really jumpy as well, but we think that's a big cat problem as there's been several large cats sightings over the summer.


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## thepain1 (Dec 20, 2006)

been a while since i been on but been busy working last few years but just thought i would say that i have been hunting deer and seeing coyotes like crazy not sure were this mild winter you talked about sask but down south here in saskatchewan cold very cold i think the deer numbers are way down and coyote ate well on all the dead deer


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Well, there are a couple Wileys today who've lost their appetites for mutton -- permanently -- although they did get a ride in the box of my pickup.

Here's what I'm wondering. I don't have the time -- nor the skill -- to get rid of all the coyotes in this particular farmer's area. I read somewhere that if you hang a coyote carcass on a fence it'll scare off other yotes.

Anyone have any experience or knowledge of this? What I'm thinking is to hang both these carcasses -- plus a couple I hope to get tomorrow -- on fences surrounding her sheep pasture that'll serve as a warning for other yotes to steer clear. Any suggestions would be helpful.

(Hey, kdog, took the .223 Remy out this morning, whacked one but got chased in by the rain after the fourth stand. This evening, took the .204, first shot with it at a yote. DRT. :beer: Only did that one stand, got chased off by rain again. How's the Volquartsen coming along?)

Good luck and shoot straight. Saskcoyote


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

saskcoyote- hanging dead coyotes off of a fence is a wives tale from the western days and it feeds the anti's either put them up, use them around a trap or M-44 or put them in a rockpile. Hanging them on a post will do you no good!

Kingcanada- I would highly suggest you get your numbers straight before posting them online!!!!!! If tim( which isn'tgov't and doesn't have to prove his numbers to anybody ) (My coyotes are public knowledge plain and simple)killed that many in Natona BEFORE christmas last year ( which i find hard to believe) then you aren't doing very well to help out now are you!!! You have stated multiple times that you only hunt while the pelts are prime, well what about your ranchers that let you hunt during the non-prime season do you take care of their predation problems? NO! You want to leave them until they are worth something to you! That my friend is why they have a control specialst because they will TAKE CARE OF THE PROBLEM NO MATTER WHAT TIME OF YEAR!!!!!!!!! You are simply being selfish suck it up and get better at it!!Killing 85% of a coyote population in an area as big as 4 counties in WY with out the use of poison is IMPOSSIBLE!!!! Period no questions asked!!! If you want to challenge that bring me the studies because i have the studies to back up my statements instead of just talking from the hip!! Don't blame a control agent in your area for your lack of skill in killing predators it's just tacky and most knowledgble callers see right through it.
Furthermore the money set aside for as you stated it "Predator Control" in the fine state of WY has so little do with the energy industry it's not worth mentioning. If you don't like it write your state representive if you're intellegent enough? It is this kind of blatant (sp) misinformation that you spue that fights the hunting groups and organizations today!

Where are you getting your numbers? I really want know?

This is exactly why i don't post here anymore!!!


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Guess there'll be three yotes headed to the rock pile. Prices for prime animals is bad enough; when they're taken while the hides are still blue, they're almost worthless. In fact, I couldn't even give them away to our local trapper. By the time he'd pay royalty, commission, drumming and so on, he figured he'd be lucky to get $5 each.

That's the dilemma, isn't it? Kill and then discard worthless coyotes or wait for them to prime up but in the meantime, face the possibility they'll continue causing more expensive headaches for sheep producers.

Over the years I've never had to worry about that and waited until the end of Octover or early November before I started calling. This year it's different.

For me it's not a tough decision. Game on!

Good luck and shoot straight. Saskcoyote


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Sask,

sadly, I am still waiting for the Volquartsen. The barrel was cut to 20" instead of the 24" that I ordered (mistake made in Germany), so things are delayed. i promise to keep you "posted". Glad to hear you have "game on". As usual, I'm envious!

Brad,

I hope you can see your way to post on here from time to time. It is a pleasure to hear from people like yourself. You know your stuff, and many of us could learn alot from your experience.

KD


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

BRAD T., i am not trying to start a fight here, so let me be objective here. the figures for natrona co. came to me direct from the mouth of one of the predator board members. i consider that a reliable source. the previous year the man had hinted at me working for them. i was not interested. in my college days i would have fell over backwards signing on.
no, i don't hunt yotes all year. if a rancher asks me to try to get a problem dog, i will. i don't hunt coyotes on ranches much any more. most ranch roads go right up the valley where the coyotes get to watch your arrival. i prefer to hunt large areas too, with so many fremont county ranches broke up by subdivision it is hard to make a milk run near town. most larger ranches already have people working them pretty hard so i go out where i can find less pressure. a good 5 dog day beats a hard day for 1. besides, why hunt areas with plenty of hunters? someone has to hunt the fringes and hard to access areas.
do i do "my part"? that's up to you. i am not going to try to change that either. i hunt birds as often as coyotes, so that is going to limit things. the pelt count for the past two winters is 80 (48 2yrs. ago and 32 last yr.). did i save every sheep in wyo? no. 
does gunning from the air make a big impact? yes. tim? i am guessing you refer to coleman. i may be wrong. i have witnessed first hand that these guys, private or govt., can have a tremendous impact on localized areas. one told me that they are EXPECTED to kill 10-20 coyotes per hour. that adds up very quick. i have also seen some of the photos. if you think that that doesn't affect a man's take in the field, you are wrong. just like coyote numbers can impact game numbers.
a real good friend of mine, who's son is a professional trapper, told me that in over 40 years on the family ranch, he had never actually witnessed a coyote killing a calf. he admitted that it must indeed happen, but that it is a problem often blown out of proportion. he also got real upset when an aerial gunner was shooting coyotes on his ranch. that was his boy's cash crop! just like cows were his. in wyoming you do own air space above your property.
but hey, if you feel i am a lousy hunter who can't get the job done, so be it. my concerns are not about me. coyote hunting has grown into a booming industry, bigger than many forms of hunting. just ask the manufacturer's and video producers. if deer were shot from the air, there would be hell to pay. and deer cause vastly more economic damage than coyotes. did you know that deer kill more people than all other forms of wildlife combined? auto collisions. did you also know that the auto insurance industry is the no. 1 lobby for more liberal deer seasons? before you tell me to get that figure straight, i will inform you that those words came straight from the mouth of a friend in the insurance industry.
now go enjoy killing some dogs!


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

You still haven't told us where you came up with the number of "aerial gunners killing 85% of the coyotes in a four county area. Either produce proof of those kind of numbers or quit using them!

The predator board member you speak of either is trying to talk up what there program is doing or is misinformed on the numbers that there program is doing.

In wyoming the landowner does not own the air space. The FAA rules are 500ft above a occupied building. Unless livestock is being harassed the game and fish, a private pilot or one of many gov't agencies can fly over the land, Putting out fires, surveying pipe lines ect ect.

As far as where you are hunting "fringe areas and hard access areas" i don't care hunt how you please just don't blame your short comings on someone else.

Coyotes do kill calves i have the pictures and have killed the offending animals arguing that fact is simply not worth my time! If you don't believe that coyotes kill calves that's your right but it has been proven (bite marks throught the neck, offending animal being shot in the process or after leaving with the calf still breathing!

The fact of the matter is that you want 10 coyotes to come running in everytime you sit down and blow the call and don't care about how those numbers would effect everyone else. Someone that is out doing it because it NEEDs to be done is wrong in your eyes!

I don't know a Tim Coleman.

10-20 and hour is an outrageous number again that you "heard". If thats what you would like to believe then fine but don't post things without proof on a public forum!!!!!!!

Natrona cty has a private control program and it is up to their board on how they do things, there trappers are not regulated by anyone other then the game and fish. Take you petty problems with them killing "your" coyotes to their board i would like to be a fly on the wall as you get laughed out of the room.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Geez I hope everyone got their word in here! :-?

Lets get on with it. The main thing to remember here is even with the guys doing predator control, there will always be plenty of predators around to call in. You cannot completely eradicate them.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i will withdraw the 85% if it makes you feel better. it is still significant. and when predator control is 30 miles from the nearest ranch during the winter when stock is off the range, then why waste rancher's money doing it! there are trappers trying darn hard to make a living.
yes i care about the ranchers, yes coyotes kill calves, but many ranchers themselves have told me that it is not as bad as some of their neighbors claim.
the predator board member was not talking up the program. he recently resigned since he was sick of dealing with the politics of such a position. i spoke with him often since he is a wrestling coach and our paths cross often when i travel to the meets with our team (i drive the bus). i was never laughed out of the room. the man was very objective and understood why i preferred them to pinpoint problems rather than use a carpet bombing approach. 
10 to 20 per hour was a direct quote from a man who was flying a helicopter for such operations. i also sat on a hill and watched a man with a plane and his gunner take down 4 coyotes in 10 minutes before crossing the next ridge. a local rancher with a large tract of land reported over 75 taken in 2 days in his valley. i will not back down from these numbers. 
my personal observations keeping count of tracks in the snow lends much credit to what i say. coyotes leave tracks, period. i have put in 150 mile days searching the red desert before, coyotes do move around. during times of high aerial pressure the smarter animals survive by heading into brushy area where they can escape. guess where the tracks are.
do i want aerial gunning banned? no. it is a necessary evil. but some discretion is called for. hit problem areas. hit grazing leases shortly before sheep are put on them. killing of the coyotes 6 months before hand gives new coyotes time to move in and establish denning territory. this is when the coyotes are most likely to kill stock to feed their young. i can't hold that against them. but i will kill them when it happens. otherwise i leave them be. hunting them year round makes them smarter and harder to kill when problems do arise. there is reason behind my madness.
killing animals on someone's land without permission is still illegal whether airborne or not. and yes you do own air above your land in wyoming, i don't have the figure in feet, but it is true. this is why "corner jumping" is illegal and enforced as trespassing. it locks up large tracts of public land and has been a controversy since the johnson county range wars. 
i also don't need 10 dogs to run in every time i call. if i did, i would have quit years ago. it would take all sense of accomplishment away from the sport. if i want to just rack up lots of shooting every day i can hunt prairie dogs or gophers. it does however cost just as much in fuel to kill none as it does to kill 5. fur prices are low and bounties are limited. it costs money to go out and cull the numbers. i have obviously offended you somehow and you are perturbed with me, maybe you shoot from the air, i don't know.
let's bury this hatchet, shake hands and move on. the snow is piled up deep here in fremont county and it is getting me thinking about hunting coyotes again. i enjoy hunting them often, whether it's a one dog day or a six dog day. i take the good years with the bad.


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Killing coyotes on land without permission is illegal where ever you go. Flying over the land is not.

10-20 an hour with a helicopter has been done but that is an extreme you state it like it happens everytime they go up. 75 in two days can be done again with IDEAL conditions it's not the norm

You stated that "coyote do move around" yet you're arguing about killing coyotes certain distances away from a ranch. What is right then 10 miles, 2 miles, 200yds pulling down a calf?

Killing coyotes in advance has more to do with maybe a killing coyote that didn't get cleaned up that spring and the snow and conditions have worked to the advantage of the trapper to get it killed. Also especially when around calving operations keeping the average coyote age down makes a big difference. The coyotes that are dispersing and that will fill in for THE MOST PART are yoy of at least 3 and under.

If you can't find enough coyotes in the red desert to call then there is no help for you that is the highest density of coyotes in the state.

It's not that i'm pertubed at you it's that i think you're talking like an authority about something that you obviously don't know that much about.


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## SaberX01 (Sep 25, 2009)

I agree lets get calling / shooting instead of talking statistics 

However, the second half im not so sure about:


Fallguy said:


> Geez I hope everyone got their word in here! :-?
> 
> Lets get on with it. The main thing to remember here is even with the guys doing predator control, there will always be plenty of predators around to call in. You cannot completely eradicate them.


We alomost erraticatd the wolf, at least in the continental US, through very similar tactics. They really didnt have a chance did they.

Hopefully, that sort of presure doesn't drive the Coyotes & Fox to the same point.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

SaberX01 said:


> We alomost erraticatd the wolf, at least in the continental US, through very similar tactics. They really didnt have a chance did they.
> 
> Hopefully, that sort of presure doesn't drive the Coyotes & Fox to the same point.


Never happen.

Coyotes are much more adaptable than wolves. Their current numbers/range is proof of that.

Govt shooters/trappers, callers, every Tom Dick and Harry with a rifle in the truck taking shots em all year on sight...........nope, the only thing that will SURELY take their numbers down for any length of time will be another widespread mange epidemic.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

Brad, i do know what i am talking about, the red desert's best spots have taken a nose dive lately. the other trappers and coyote hunters i know are making the same observations. the past 2 years there was a large bonus supplied by the governor to gun out these areas. kind of a coincidence. i was going to quote some statistics from a book published by the U.S. department of the interior, published before all of the liberal mentality took over our government. but that would be beating a dead horse by now. and coyotes don't pull down a calf from 30 miles away. you feel bad about ranchers having their livelyhood impacted, but why not to care about the guys who make their living trapping and hunting coyotes? they are a dying breed and deserve to heat their homes too. i also have seen some rancher's refuse permission to any hunters or trappers, then go to the government complaining of losses. it is real hard to help these guys out. some of them also have lots of money and ranch as a hobby or tax right off. 
if you think i am beyond help, maybe you're right, i just discovered that all those coyotes were feral poodles instead. imagine my chagrin. :lol: hell, if you think i can't get the job done, send me a pm. i will return it with my phone number. then you can come teach me. i don't claim to be Less Johnson, but i do fairly well. and i have not taken this personal, we can still be friends who disagree.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I can't handle myself but to kick in the door on this a bit.

It doesn't matter which state you go to, the public is going to complain weather you help them or the gov does. people are always looking for assistance.

You say that people are making a living by trapping and calling coyotes. I just want to say that the fur market is not that great. You'd better have a side job. A government hunter on the other had makes his living by trapping and calling coyotes. It is a living, they don't get paid much, it is enough to LIVE on but their bank accounts aren't stacked. They are just people too.

First off it's the landowners option to let hunter on or not, remember it is their land. If they have a government hunter taking a few coyote to reduce the numbers, great. They will NOT kill them all. If anyone says that they can kill all the coyotes in a county, I've got to shake their hand. Hopefully some of that skill will rub off.

The percentage of land that government hunters are actually on is minimal compared to the amount of land they don't even touch. Here in ND, the percentage is right around 3%. So the other 97% of the land isn't even touched by a government hunter. I think you can find some land there.

If you can't find a coyote, don't blame it on a gov trapper.

Another thing that you have to realize is that there are two types of hunters, the hobby hunter and the gov hunter. I'll distinguish these two for you.

Hobby hunter - a guy who goes out on weekends or when he can to shoot a few coyotes to pay for the guys gas for that weekend. He goes out and calls in a pair of coyotes and shoots one and leaves the other for seed. Happily going home with his trophy. He has the "lets go hunting" mentality. He gets to go home and have a good nights sleep of dreams of puppy dog tails.

Gov hunter - gets a call at home at 3am in the morning at his home by a guy who just lost a few sheep to some coyotes. The hunter goes out the next morning to settle down the rancher. He leaves that morning knowing that he will kill any and everything he calls in. He has the "KILL" mentality. If he doesn't get the coyotes that are doing damage, he will NOT get any sleep that night.

If an aircraft is used to clean up an area, it doesn't take long for coyotes to return. I've talk with several ranchers that have said that after the airplane came in, it only took 2 weeks before they started to hear coyotes in the area again.

Oh yeah and well go back to that little guy that wasn't shot by that hobby hunter, he moves around, several miles, to fill in that gap. He may get another chance to be called in again, but it is going to take someone with some knowledge to pick him up.

Gov trappers are not gods they make mistakes, but it's just a lot less because they get out and get experience on every trip, daily. The thing that distinguishes them is all the other tools that they have to take that killing coyote.

xdeano


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

xdeano

I like your description of the hobby hunter and government hunter. Quite accurate and amusing! It is easy to decide which you are. I like getting my sleep at night. :wink:


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

If any of the results posted in any of these posts were to happen on a cosistent basis the coyote population would become extinct within a decade or two :eyeroll: . If aerial gunning was so deadly and put up such vast numbers of coyotes, then why are those areas constantly being flown over year after year and still killing/seeing the same numbers as years before? Did you ever think that maybe the coyote density might have dropped in an area is not because of the hunting pressure or government hunter, but rather a change in food source?? Maybe the prairie dogs or some other critter in the area caught a plague :-? As xdeano mentioned before is one of the main reasons a ADC guy puts up the numbers they do in a year is becuase they have the tools accessible to them to do it all while putting up with the politics and B.S. that go with the job. I have a lot of respect for those guys :beer: Another question i have is why would a ADC guy try to blanket effect an area on a consistent basis? Wouldn't it be more efficient for them to come in and kill that specific coyote that is killing the sheep and then move on to the next job? Granted there are times when they are out there to specifically just kill everything, but that is not done on a daily basis. I'm by no means a expert coyote caller, but i just dont see where some of these stats and figures can be realistic :-?


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

any word on where King Canada disappeared to? perfect timing to vanish...

xdeano


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

xdeano said:


> any word on where King Canada disappeared to? perfect timing to vanish...
> 
> xdeano


Maybe he became a Vigilante Government Hunter!


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

that's fine, what ever floats his boat.

xdeano


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Just saw this.Hope KingCanada comes back.He makes some points and everyone has the right to their opinion.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

duckp, I agree and I'm still waiting for his rebuttal. Opinions welcomed, just so long as they have some backing.

xdeano


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

duckp, I agree as well. It would be too bad if kingcanada decided to withdraw from our coyote-hunting gabfest. Anyone who has the success hunting yotes that he does has a lot to contribute and I, for one, am willing to listen. In fact, I'd venture to say he could teach most of us a thing or two. So, kingcanada, if you're out there, I -- and probably many others -- look forward to future contributions from you.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i will tell you where i disappeared to. the duck blind. and our irrigation canals. i have to make my year's minnow harvest right now. so that gives me 2 things more important than arguing. 
2 year massive, broad based control campaign? yes it did occur. it is now over and the money is gone. a friend runs the state wildlife trust here. things like this are his job.
i do find coyotes. not nearly as many as 2006 back to 1990. i am not the only one making these claims. some of my friends, darn good hunters themselves ( 3 have won money in competition on several occasions), have seen it too. i can not speak for the southern portion of the red desert where densities are the highest, it is just too far out for day trips. there is no profit involved if i have to stay in a hotel room. i try to limit my runs to a 120 mile radius.
wyoming is mostly public land. most hunting takes place there. i don't blame every problem on govt. activitiy. private pilots have caused plenty of trouble too.
i guess i should have made this point at the start: why should i kill a coyote in june when i can kill it in the winter closer to calving time and get a pelt out of the deal? killing them right up into calving season (local calving usually occur from late dec. to early march here) does more good than killing them months earlier when new dogs can come in and set up shop. after calves are born they are vulnerable for only a short time. try using a coyote howler near a group of calves and heifers during april (or march). i made that mistake only once. the stampede it caused could have proved lethal if i had been standing in the herd. the calves grouped up instantly and the moms stormed in and surrounded them. the herd was spread out over 100 yards wide before the howl. the described events took less than one minute.
coyotes also consume large quantities of mice and rabbits, animals which compete with cattle for grazing material. they even eat grasshoppers. this year many farmers and ranchers filed extensive crop losses due to grasshopper infestations. they were a real plague this year. the point is, why not let the coyotes provide some benefit to farmers and ranchers during the warm months, then whack em hard during the months leading through the calving? makes good economic sense to me. don't get me wrong, i used to be a 12 month coyote hunter.
one other thing, coyotes are proven to INCREASE duck nesting success. source? Delta waterfowl predator studies. it seems that coyotes, being a wide ranging predator, don't spend much time scouring for nests. the U.S. department of the interior once conducted a stomach content study of coyotes in 17 states. 8,339 stomachs were sampled. bird content? approximately 3% (the govt. document is sitting next to me as i type this). this backs up Delta's study. Delta did however find that foxes, racoons, skunks, and believe it or not-ground squirrels were notorious nest predators. foxes and racoons also killed many hens. coyotes will kill these predators at every chance, just like wolves kill coyotes. Delta found that intensive predator control, EXCLUDING coyotes, was the most effective method to increase duck production. the coyotes helped to keep the more undesirable predators from moving back in from surrounding areas.
as i stated in an earlier post, there is sound reasoning to my madness. have a nice day folks, it's snowing again here, i have ducks to shoot and bait to harvest. my hands will not be warm today...


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## lyonch (Feb 26, 2006)

There is a big difference that i personally see here. It is sheep grounds versus cattle grounds. I dont think anyone is questioning the time of year that you pursue coyotes. I think the relative question was on the facts and percenteages stated in an earlier post. I bilieve the 3% study on feathered animals for a coyotes diet is 100% correct. not too often does a guy see parts of feathers in a coyote fecies (sp). Who knows maybe O'Gorman moved into your area


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

i can't see why everyone here is giving kingc a hard time. he seems to be a geniune good guy and has killed allot of coyoyets in his time therefore he's gained my respect becuase even in areas with lots of them they are not easy to get


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

something i forgot to mention earlier (relevant to a post by xdeano) is that areas are hit every year because of the coyote's ability to replace itself. the harder an area is hit, the healthier the survivors will be. always. this is one reason why we will never extirpate them completely. the lack of competition for food leaves them in superb condition for breeding, nursing, and feeding the young. this can triple the size of litters. it has been documented countless time by many research projects. including research on why we can't seem to get rid of them. this is another reason why i prefer to see the heavy reduction in numbers occur in winter rather than spring.
has anyone here noticed that i have only cited sources that are not predator friendly? i have not taken any information from any pro-predator interest groups. has any one noticed that some have tried to discredit me personally? but not given any background of their own? yet, i have not tried once to discredit their personal claims or ask why they would be an authority. for the record: i AM a semi-professional coyote hunter. i DO have other jobs. i DO NOT make a great deal of money with any of them. i DID pay my way through college in part by hunting coyotes. a decent portion of it. i have spent 19 years studying and learning and have some education in wildlife management. i take great interest in every creature i hunt and am always trying to learn more. i know more about it now than i did then. i do enjoy helping others hunt them, especially the new kids. 
there is also a double standard on this forum i am learning. many folks get bent out of shape if non res hunters show up at their favorite duck or pheasant spots and shoot their birds, but i can't be upset when two guys in a plane drop in and clean out a valley while i sit and watch. sometimes on my own dime? i may have opened up a can of worms, or more accurately, failed to put the lid back after it had been opened. i am here to make friends, not enemies. just read my posts elsewhere in the various subjects in the forum.
oh yeah, the duck hunt was very good, i did go catch minnows and my hands did get real cold.
:beer:


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## JxMAN25 (Apr 3, 2009)

there is getting to be way to many coyotes in oregon or at least there is starting to get more of them. So is anyone from oregon on here


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

> something i forgot to mention earlier (relevant to a post by xdeano) is that areas are hit every year because of the coyote's ability to replace itself. the harder an area is hit, the healthier the survivors will be. always. this is one reason why we will never extirpate them completely. the lack of competition for food leaves them in superb condition for breeding, nursing, and feeding the young. this can triple the size of litters. it has been documented countless time by many research projects. including research on why we can't seem to get rid of them. this is another reason why i prefer to see the heavy reduction in numbers occur in winter rather than spring.


This point is very relevant, and very true. Doing a winter maintenance program will help a rancher out considerably for spring calvers, but denning and spring flying will cut the depredations down to near nothing, but there will still be some killing on sheep during the summer months regardless. Winter flying on cattle land, will drop you problems very dramatically because of the size of the animal.



> i DID pay my way through college in part by hunting coyotes. a decent portion of it.


I don't know when you went through college but, prices of fur have bottomed out to near nothing. In fact it's hardly worth sending them up to a Canadian auction after taking the charges out, especially for coyotes. It's to bad.



> has any one noticed that some have tried to discredit me personally? but not given any background of their own? yet, i have not tried once to discredit their personal claims or ask why they would be an authority.


I'm no authority, but I heard from a guy, who heard from a guy, and I could have swore that he claimed to know some stuff about them government hunters. :lol: Only kidding. I guess we're just looking for the numbers too, to make things add up. I have a degree in Biology and like most science nerds, I'd like to see it to believe it.



> but i can't be upset when two guys in a plane drop in and clean out a valley while i sit and watch.


There is no law that says that you can't go pick those coyotes up as long as you have permission from the land owners and the Gov doesn't want them for testing.



> i did go catch minnows and my hands did get real cold.


I'll agree with you on this one, the water is getting COLD really fast. It was snowing yesterday up here. Just a bit, nothing sticking yet. They're calling for a bit more today sometime.

If you want ducks, come up to Devils Lake area and you can have them all. there are plenty for everyone. While you're at it kill some of those Canadian geese too. I can't comment on pheasants, because I'm not in the population. But it's getting harder for people to get on for nothing anymore.

xdeano


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## ay tee (Jun 11, 2007)

an old conservation officer once told me an interesting bit of info one day when we were talking about a coyote "population problem"... if you can take a full grown cow (that died for whatever reason) put it somewhere to let nature take care of it. that cow should last 7 days, if it lasts 2 days you have a coyote population problem... so many farmers and cattle owners around here keep saying there is a problem, funny thing is, i have yet to see a full size cow on a rock pile eaten within 4 days of it being put there... you might think you have a problem about this time of year due to the fact that they are active, its getting cold and they are hunting, just because you dont see them doesnt mean they arent there... and dont assume you have a problem when you do see them...

i can stand behind kingcanada here in the matter that i know wyoming has multimillion dollar predator programs... more than nd and sd possibly combined.... im not sure exactly why though, the times that i hunted out there i cant ever recall seeing "to many"... i think its due to the fact that Larry Curly and Moe off the street don't know any better and they see 4 of them in a few mile radius and go tell everyone there is a "problem"...

so am i saying that govt hunting is an issue that needs to be done away with, no... am i saying they are taking too many animals out, possibly... do they hire the best guys for the job, no....

if you ask me, what they need to do is have govt sposored tournaments, get some guys in there that know what is going on and have a weekend payout of so many dollars... think about it... figure they take out 50 dogs in a single day, so you get 100 guns in hands of guys that know how to hunt these animals.. say 80 guys take down 1 dog the first day and 60 the next day.... the govt made 140 people sleep well and dream about puppy tails, didnt piss anyone off, achieved the goal and spent less money doing it... because god knows airplane fuel is 20% gold!...


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i attended college in the early 90's. prices were bad then too, but gas was 87 cents per gallon and i could eat for $20 a week. the poor prices are why i did not completely pay for college then. 10 years earlier it would of been possible. but i was 8 years old then. fur prices got too low for me last year and worse now, but i hunted hard and collected my bounties. this year i will hit them again no matter what the price is. i am going to make a few bedspreads/ quilts out of them. there is still good money in that if you have the time to tan and stitch them. i will leave further arguments about the above subjects for someone else now since i have pretty much already made my points and need to move on to more useful pursuits. have a nice day folks. shoot straight and leave no "tattle tails" behind. :sniper:


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

> if you ask me, what they need to do is have govt sposored tournaments, get some guys in there that know what is going on and have a weekend payout of so many dollars... think about it... figure they take out 50 dogs in a single day, so you get 100 guns in hands of guys that know how to hunt these animals.. say 80 guys take down 1 dog the first day and 60 the next day.... the govt made 140 people sleep well and dream about puppy tails, didnt piss anyone off, achieved the goal and spent less money doing it... because god knows airplane fuel is 20% gold!...


Isn't this called a bounty??? They've already tried this in many states, with limited success with coyotes. Wolves, and beaver on the other hand, didn't do so hot. I know a few years ago they tried this in one of the SE counties in ND and the way it ended up was more people were bringing in coyotes from every county around it to collect the $25 that they were drained before they started. The population exploded the next year from what I've heard.

I can't remember what AVgas is going for probably in the $4.00/gallon mark i'm guessing. If it takes an hour to fly a location, it'd only cost about a hundred bucks, but you have to get to that location too. So the money does add up, but they get the problem solved and the gov hunter can start working on another complaint.

There is a problem when something dies with puncture holes in it's neck. These guys don't just go out there to fly for the heck of it. There is a ligament complaint. They have to have it documented. sheep die pretty quick and it only takes 1 coyote. A lot of those guys out in WY are on sheep property.

I'll agree WY does have a heck of a large predator program, but for some reason they do so because of the ranchers that pay the head tax, I'm guessing that's where the majority of their money is coming from. I may be wrong on that, I don't live there.

King,
You're definitely on the right track of making a bit of money with the bedspreads/quilts. Nice and warm. My dogs would have a hay day with a nice bedspread. I can imagine leaving for work and leaving them home, i'd come back with a house of fur chunks the size of my fist.

xdeano


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i think i won't have too much problem with my dog, she is usually not in the house if i am not there. as for anyone who buys a quilt, let's hope it doesn't happen! i won't be making many. it takes a good number of pelts to make one and you have to grade them to match too.
bite marks in sheep neck can also be from dogs, usually not, but if a domestic dog starts running sheep at night he will do the damage of 20 coyotes. a good man i know used to have sheep when i was a kid. he was my first employer when i was only 13. those hay bales looked a lot bigger then! anyhow, he once tracked a pair of dogs 4 miles back to town after they had killed over a dozen sheep one night. the lady was shocked when he showed her the blood and wool in their mouths and on their faces. people where a little more responsible back then and the lady apologized and took the necessary actions with those dogs. 
i have also called in stray dogs, sometimes in small groups, while hunting coyotes. first couple times surprised me since i knew they we not the rancher's dogs. trappers get a few in their traps too. not trying to say coyotes don't kill sheep, just passing along some tidbits that people may find interesting. it's looking like coyote prime time is about here. the robins have all flown south, tomorrow we get our 5th snow storm of the month, and it was still 10 degrees at about noon today. i saw 4 yotes on a 488 mile bus trip yesterday. 1 looked o.k. and the other three were getting pretty nice. maybe i will find time to call a few while i am out seining minnows this week. if not, then i will get on 'em after i get back from hunting snow geese in nodak land.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I'll agree dogs do kill livestock, but they do so very sloppily. Unless they've done it before. It's pretty easy to figure it out. I had a buddy that had lost 2 sheep during the night so I went over to his house and found dog hair in the fence, the ears and nose chewed off of both sheep and no puncture wounds any where else on them. No feeding, nothing. So yes it does happen. And in some cases people jump the gun and blame it on coyotes, in fact a lot of times. There are a lot of things that will kill an animal and it isn't always necessarily another animal.

Where in ND are you hunting geese? Good luck, there are plenty around.

xdeano


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

sorry it took so long to reply, i have been real busy. i will be hunting snow geese near Kramer. canadas and upland birds are on the agenda for the southwest. one friend says that he has no pheasants and another has a decent number. typical for a down year. i don't mind having to work for them. i may go fox hunting this week. saw a few today while running the canals for bait. sunday we saw 5. every day i see them. most i have ever seen. makes sense since the coyotes are down in that area. i kinda miss fox hunting and will probably take a few minutes in passing to get 1 or 2.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

wow, now that's a hike. Isn't Kramer up by Bottineau some place? I'd wait on the fox for another month. The ones I've looked at up here are still flat, give them a bit to prime up a little more. I really wish we had a lot more fox around here. granted they're hard of nesters, but oh well.

It's hit or miss on the birds this year from what i've been hearing.

xdeano


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yo, kingcanada, just got back this afternoon from the first of our three annual Montana rooster hunts. We hunt in an area close to the ND border in the northeastern part of Montana and did well although not as well as last year. The numbers are down this year in general but from what friends down there tell us and from what we saw, one can find good numbers in micro-areas.

Tomorrow morning, if the wind drops, it's back to calling. I was out the day before we left for Montana and it was a bad day for the bad guys.  Called in four, three DRT with the CZ .204. Fourth one, couldn't bark him to a stop, gave him a warning shot, then tumbled him with the second and he rolled out of sight behind a hill.

Tracked him for half a mile. All his legs were working so I'm thinking I didn't lead him enough and shot him too far back. He stopped leaking and I lost him.  That's the drawback with a smaller caliber. Small hole going in, no hole going out. Makes for tough tracking.

In the meantime, it's Game On! :sniper:

Good luck and shoot straight. Saskcoyote


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i understand. i primarily use .17's and tracking without snow is tough. luckily it is seldom necessary. i did have a 204 one winter and had to do a lot of tracking, much more than with any gun i ever owned. i got very erratic performance in terms of clean kills and pelt damage. shots were in the boiler room too. 24 coyotes in one month was a good enough sample, i went back to my 17's. i used 32 gr v-max and 35 gr begers. my cousin reported similar results with his 204 and 40 gr v-maxes. i have heard good reports from the 39 gr. sierra blitz kings though.
good numbers of birds in the micro areas sounds plenty good to me. it's just me and the border collie most of the time, so small tracts of land are fine. how did the grouse numbers look? i enjoy them as much as anything.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

I'm shooting 40-grain Bergers over 28 grains of H4895 est. velocity nearing 3,800 so there's plenty of uummpphh. This is the first season with the .204. I've shot at six yotes with it. Five were DRT. The only one that gave me the slip was the running shot so I'm thinking the reason he got away was because of my poor shot placement, something one generally can't afford with a small caliber. Had I been shooting a .243, for example, it probably would have been a different story. I'll keep on top of this and if there seems to be a problem, I'll go back to the .223 and 50-grain HPs.

As for the birds, there usually aren't too many Huns and sharpies where we hunt but we saw a few flocks of each and they appear to be in about the same numbers as other years.

I got out with a buddy for six goose hunts up here the last month. We kicked them pretty good and smartened up a bunch more just to give you guys down south a bit more of a challenge. :lol:


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i didn't get any fox calling done, wind was raging so i did what seemed to be the best option: ducks! it proved to be a good choice, the ducks bombed in with reckless abandon.
geese? i will be chasing them on your turf next year!  in a week or so i will be in N.D. chasing them, hopefully you didn't make them TOO smart!


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yo, Kingcanada, just got back from a quick hunt on your side of the line last night. Spanked a bunch of Montana roosters. Didn't see a single Hun or sharpie.

A few days back, got out calling in perfect conditions, temperature just above freezing with a slight breeze from the north. First stand, dry. Second, a hard charger, barked him to a standstill at 35 yards. Bang, flop with the .204.

Third stand, dry. Fourth stand overlooking a large, rolling hay pasture with islands of poplar and heavily wooded on all sides. Called in another hard charged, barked him. DRT on a 40-yard broadside. Ki-yi'ed and back to JR distress. Watched a female come in from 500 yards. Barked her at 60, dead as dirt from a straight-on chest shot.

Three down by 9:30 a.m. Decided to call a stubble field. I was walking into the stand along a grassy lane, about 15 yards wide and heavily wooded on both sides, when I saw a yote about 400 yards away.

Set up the FX3, found cover about 30 yards back on the edge of the lane in trees. Sent out an interrogation and then JR distress, and watched the yote hard charge in.

Barked him at 35 yards but instead of stopping, he took a hard 90 to the left. With such a narrow laneway I knew he'd be in cover immediately so I snapped off a shot. Whack! the 40-grain Berger knocked him down, he got up and spun, biting at his side.

The big blood patch on him just behind his rib cage told me I hit him too far back. Before I could chamber another round into the CZ he was in cover.

About 100 yards in, after coming across a couple places where he laid down, I found in one spot two lengths of intestine, each about 6 inches long. Obviously, a mortal wound.

I tracked that sucker for nearly an hour through thick brush, willows, deadfalls and so on but finally lost the trail. It was a big disappointment, having the morning starting so well only to see a 'dead dog running' get away.

This is the second dog I've lost with the .204 this season. After using the .223 for the first few hunts, I've turned to the .204. I've shot 11 dogs with it, 9 were bang flops and the other 2 were gut shot and got away.

I'm sure the results wouldn't have been any different with the .223 although a heavier bullet in a bigger or faster caliber may have made a difference and saved one or both of the run-offs.

I get conflicting opinions on the .204; some say it's not the coyote caliber that it's cracked up to be while other guys (Kdog comes to mind) say it's the perfect caliber.

The problems I've encountered are problems I created with poor shots. What about the rest of you .204 users? What have you seen? Are you getting run-offs? If so, are the run-offs due to shortcomings in the caliber or shortcomings in the shooter?

I'd be interested in hearing of other guys' experiences with the .204.

Good luck and shoot straight (whether you're using a .204 or something else). Saskcoyote


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Sask,

Thanks for the fun post - as per usual. I cannot add any experience (yet)with the .204 to reply to your post, but a couple things came to mind upon reading yours. It's doubtful that my comments here are going to be news to you Sask, but they may give other readers something to ponder when deciding on a coyote rifle.

Your 9 for 11 DRTs are testiment to the effectiveness of the .204 when the bullet hits the vitals. The only thing a bullet can do better than making a coyote DRT is to preserve the pelt while doing so. I'm guessing that you had very little, if any, pelt damage on the DRTs. So, if a bullet/caliber kills clean with little or no pelt damage, it is hard to improve on that.

One thing that seems to get lost in the debate about calibers is the fact that it's the bullet weight and speed that really matters - for the most part. A coyote probably can't tell if he got hit with a 40 grainer from a .204 or from a .223. No matter how you slice it though, a 40 grain bullet going say 3900 fps (from a .204) is gonna have more energy than a 40 grainer going 3600 or 3700 fps (from a .223).

There are those who have written that they gave up on the .204 because they "lost" too many coyotes. That does not make any sense. Possibly they used a bullet that either fragmented too rapidly, or one that didn't expand at all. The same people have probably changed to a different caliber that in the end shoots the same weight bullets as the .204 - and at a similar speed.

I know, there I go again....Bla - Bla - Bla...

KD


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## FullClip (Jan 22, 2007)

2 things, Once shot a yote at 75 yards running broadside with CZ .204 32gr Berger. Never did find it. Shooter error on that one.

What is DRT?, if you dont mind me asking.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

DRT= dead right there


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## FullClip (Jan 22, 2007)

kdog said:


> Sask,
> 
> Thanks for the fun post - as per usual. I cannot add any experience (yet)with the .204 to reply to your post, but a couple things came to mind upon reading yours. It's doubtful that my comments here are going to be news to you Sask, but they may give other readers something to ponder when deciding on a coyote rifle.
> 
> ...


Alittle of topic but, I got sick of wind drift and some run offs with a good shot placement or haveing them do the whole spining around in circles bit with lighter bullets out of my AR. So the past couple of years its been the 243 with 70gr Nosler BT at about 3400fps or 85gr Speer SPBT at about 3300fps. only shot 3 with the 243 so far but they have all been DRT. :wink:


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yes, Fullclip, these posts are often like trailing a coyote -- dips and turns and twists -- but as long as one can pick up a few tidbits of good info along the way, then it's 'mission accomplished'. 

I didn't touch on the fur-damage issue, Kdog, but as you can see I'm more than satisfied with the .204. As for exits, the ones I've had were an 80-yard double-lung shot on a pup. The exit was the size halfway between a golf ball and a tennis ball.

Another was poor shot placement. Took out the spine of a big male, standing broadside about 200 yards away. For me that's a long way and I usually don't like taking shots from that distance but when it became apparent he was no longer interested in rabbit songs, it was time to touch one off. I admire guys like xdeano and Plainsman for whom a 300-yarder is a chip shot, a 400-yarder is a gimme and who can consistently anchor 700-800 yard dogs. :beer: I don't expect I'll ever be in that league.

As you say, Kdog, when the shots are placed properly, there's almost never an exit, obviously something that's important when saving fur and especially at this point when the fur auctions look for any excuse to offer even lower prices.

One of the best posts I've seen on shot placement was on Predator Masters' site where a guy posted a sticky (it appears to have been removed) called Practising Anatomically Correct Shots. The guy used a drawing of a coyote's anatomy to show placing a shot right behind the shoulder on a broadside would too often result in spins and runoffs because the bullet would likely just crease the lung and hit the liver.

His point was that because the heart and lungs were further ahead it was better to shoot at an imaginary point approximately where one would expect the shoulder blade to be. Hit that spot, he said, and it was always DRT, no runoffs. Ever.

The CZ .204 is a fun little gun and from what I've seen I'd recommend it to anyone, with the caveat of course that one shouldn't expect it to perform miracles.

It's Game On tomorrow morning.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i'm a little late getting back to this since i am struggling to get last minute business finished here. i will be in north dakota by sometime tuesday.  my problems with the 204 were traced directly to bullet behavior, not shot placement. it seems that the bullets i tried would penetrated almost completely through and then grenade violently. result: bulk of available energy delivery occurred near the exit, well past the vitals. and much pelt damage. the coyotes i trailed and recovered were hit in the proper, front chest zone. all but one. but like i mentioned, other bullets like the sierra 39 gr. blitzkings are now available on every shelf in my area. good luck fella's, stack 'em up, i know i will when i return from the bird lands.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Thought some of you might be interested in the following report that was broadcast on our CBC National News tonight, seeing how this post started out with coyotes attacking sheep.

We get reports once in a while of coyote-human encounters but they're generally not too serious so this is very unusual.

* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Coyotes attack woman in N.S.
Last Updated: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 | 11:10 PM AT Comments104Recommend109.
CBC News 
A 19-year-old woman was taken to hospital in critical condition after she was attacked by two coyotes Tuesday afternoon in Cape Breton Highlands National Park in northern Nova Scotia.

Provincial RCMP spokeswoman Sgt. Brigdit Leger described the victim's injuries as "very, very serious."

Paul Maynard, a spokesman for Emergency Health Services, said the woman was taken to Sacred Heart Hospital in Cheticamp where doctors tried to stabilize her. She was then airlifted to the Queen Elizabeth II Health Sciences Centre in Halifax in critical condition.

He said she had suffered "multiple bite wounds throughout her body."

Cheticamp RCMP said they received a 911 call on Tuesday reporting that a hiker was being attacked by two coyotes on the Skyline Trail, which has since been closed. Leger said an RCMP officer happened to be about five minutes from the trail.

In an earlier news release, Mounties said one coyote escaped, while they shot and killed the second because it continued to be aggressive. Cheticamp RCMP Cpl. Lisa McKay said she believed one of the animals had been shot in the hip, but that its body had not been found.

"We're not quite sure where he is," she said Tuesday night.

However, park superintendent Helene Robichaud said there were no signs a coyote had been severely wounded.

"We understand that a member of the RCMP did shoot an animal, but wasn't sure if it was hit or not," she said. "There's no indication that an animal would've been severely hit."

Robichaud said the coyotes are more than likely in the vicinity of the attack site because they are creatures of habit. Parks Canada and RCMP officials said they will resume their search for them in the morning.

She said she believed the victim was a tourist from outside Nova Scotia and was walking the trail alone.

"There were also some hikers along the trail â€" people that had gone by before and others went after," Robichaud said. "What we understand is that there was a couple who were coming along and with noise, were able to scare [the coyotes] off or send them off in a way."

Robichaud said her staff had not heard of such an attack in 20 or 25 years, and called the incident a "most severe situation."

"It's unusual, it's infrequent, irregular," she said.

The Skyline Trail has been closed and barricaded. Robichaud said uniformed staff are standing at the entrance to keep people away and it will remain that way until the situation has been resolved.

She said the coyotes will be trapped or killed, depending on how they react when officers find them.

"You have to understand that it depends on the particular situation and how the animal is approaching," she said.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Just one more reason to go out and whack a Wily. :sniper:


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

wow! that is really strange. They always run away from me. 

Strange things do happen.

Nice post Sask.

xdeano


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

xdeano: Just got this off the CBC website.

Coyotes kill Toronto singer in Cape Breton
Park official says 1 coyote dead, staff looking for 2nd animal
Last Updated: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 | 12:44 PM AT Comments176Recommend173
CBC News

A 19-year-old folk singer from Toronto has died after being attacked by two coyotes in Cape Breton Highlands National Park.
Taylor Mitchell died overnight at the QEII Health Sciences Centre in Halifax.
Mitchell was hiking on the Skyline Trail when she was attacked Tuesday afternoon. She was taken to the hospital in Cheticamp, then airlifted to Halifax in critical condition.
Park superintendent Helene Robichaud said Mitchell was walking the trail alone.
She said other hikers managed to scare off the coyotes and call 911.
An RCMP officer shot at one of the animals, but couldn't find the body. Robichaud said park staff put down a coyote overnight and were looking for a second one.
"We're continuing our exercise on the trail," she told CBC News on Wednesday morning.
Bob Bancroft, a retired biologist with the Department of Natural Resources, said this kind of attack is extremely rare and he's never heard of such a serious case in Nova Scotia.

Rare attack

He said coyotes, which are normally up to 50 pounds, are usually very shy, though they can be bold.

Wildlife warnings

Coyotes can be found in rural and urban area across Canada. They often shy away from humans, but if one does approach, here's what to do:
0.	Be aggressive yourself: Wave your arms, stomp and yell loudly in a deep voice to deter it from coming closer.
0.	Stand your ground: Stay where you are and look it in the eye. Never run away; it is more likely to consider you prey, give chase and seriously harm you.
0.	Be prepared: The best defence is a good offence; carry a whistle, flashlight and/or personal alarm. This is especially important for small children who play outside or walk to school in areas where coyotes have been spotted.
0.	Stay together: If you are walking in an area that has high coyote activity, never do so without a companion.
0.	Don't lure them with food: Coyotes are scavengers. If you have pets, feed them inside the house rather than leaving food outside, donâ€™t leave meat scraps or products in compost buckets outside your house, keep regular compost in an enclosed area and ensure garbage bins have tight resealable lids to keep out animals.
"In situations like a national park [where] usually there's no hunting and no trapping allowed, they can get used to a human presence and not have much fear of any retribution," Bancroft told CBC News.
Robichaud said park workers are puzzled.
"It could be protecting a sick animal â€¦ protecting a food source or something of that nature. But that's what we're trying to determine right now and we've been doing that since the start of this," she said.
It's unclear what happened in the woods on Tuesday.
Bancroft said coyotes team up to take down deer. He said it's possible the hiker didn't even realize what was happening.
"They may have snuck up on her and knocked her over before she even knew what happened," he said. "They may have been youngsters. They just may not have had a lot of experience or they may have just capitalized on a situation where a young person was acting vulnerable and very frightened by their presence."
He said there's a slight possibility that the animals had rabies.
Bancroft had his own run-in with a coyote several years ago when he was alone in the woods.
"A coyote came straight at me. It happened very, very quickly. It stopped and I just stood my ground, I didn't act," he said. "It actually regrouped and charged again. And I think the fact that I didn't act like a prey item convinced it to leave me alone."
Bancroft advises hikers to be alert and leave their iPods at home. He also suggests carrying a knife.
The Skyline Trail, one of the most popular trails in the park, has been closed and barricaded.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

That really sucks that she died. Maybe it'll open up trapping/snaring in canada a bit more. It's stupid to have only a few registered trappers up there that can take fur. It might bring some good light to hunting and trapping for you guys. It just sucks it has to take that much for people to notice.

It sure is odd though.

50lb coyote is huge, the largest i've ever taken was 36lbs. I guess Papapete just took one that was 39lbs. That is exceptional for around here.

What is the largest that you've taken up in your neck of the woods Sask?

xdeano


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

xdeano said:


> That really sucks that she died. Maybe it'll open up trapping/snaring in canada a bit more. It's stupid to have only a few registered trappers up there that can take fur. It might bring some good light to hunting and trapping for you guys. It just sucks it has to take that much for people to notice.
> 
> It sure is odd though.
> 
> ...


Yup.

Just a matter of time before they pull this stuff in CA too.

Hunting, trapping, snaring, all instill a healthy fear of humans in wild predators.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yo, xdeano: While we get occasional reports of coyote-people encounters this is the first I've heard in Canada where a person has been killed. The odd time I've heard of an incident on your side of the border in which a person has died but that's usually involved a toddler and not an adult.

50 pound coyotes? We see what you guys down there see. 50-pounders are possible in Eastern Canada (just as they are in the Eastern US) but those are probably strains of yotes that have some red wolf bloodlines. Up here a 40-pounder is big. I've shot a few yotes over the years and the biggest I whacked -- and I'm guessing on this because I didn't weigh him -- was around the 40 pound mark. Used one of my Labs as a decoy to get that fellow. 

Up here, unless you're in certain block management zones where traplines are leased -- and that's in the northern portions of Saskatchewan where there are usually Aboriginal trappers -- anyone can take coyotes. To sell coyotes, however, you need to have a trapper's licence. Actually, today I got in the mail a letter from Fur Harvesters where I've always sold my hides. FH is telling us, in essence, that prices are so low to the point that unless it's a Pale Western, don't bother wasting your time skinning it.

The fact is we have lots of coyotes. That's what started my "Game On" post in the first place. The lady who contacted me isn't alone up here. A week or two ago when I was talking my Labs for a walk, a fellow who has an acreage somewhat close to mine pulled up on his ATV and asked me to try and do something about the yotes that were coming into the trees behind his yard at night and attempting to pull his dogs out.

That same night, another guy who lives less than a mile from me called to say he was worried about local coyotes causing problems for his sheep. I don't want to exaggerate the numbers and have anyone think yotes up here are stacked one on top the other but there are enough of them. For guys like me, we get our share but, xdeano and bbj, you're hunters so you know how the game unfolds, lots of coyotes in an area doesn't mean you'll get lots -- they get educated real fast.

Coyote numbers aren't just growing in my area. In fact, other RMs in our province are considering offering bounties on yotes. The prices for hides are so low that trappers just don't find it worth their while to go after yotes anymore.

It's too bad we have this stupid law in Saskatchewan about out-of-province hunters. It doesn't make sense. Some RMs are willing to pay guys to kill coyotes but guys who would be willing to come to Saskatchewan and kill coyotes for free aren't allowed to do it. Hell, I think it would be a blast to have guys like you, xdeano, or kdog, come up here and spend a day or two whacking dogs in my area.

In the meantime, it's off to the western part of the province Friday for a week's mule deer hunting. Who knows, maybe I'll bump into Snowgooser. And yes, if I can fill my 3 mulie tags and my antlerless moose, I plan on pounding a few western yotes.

Good luck and shoot straight. Saskcoyote


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Sask,

We get the occasional poodle or toddler snatched down here, but nothing on the lines of an adult, that's the really strange part.

I'd agree with you on the laws up there for letting US guys come up and shoot a few coyotes, if the numbers are that high up there, you'd think that would be an easy way of doing business. I know at one time the borders were pretty well open, friends would go up that way to pick up a quick load of red fox, but that's been a while ago. It should be that way again with Coyotes. But like you stated, the fur prices have tanked and no one wants to spend money checking traps or wasting fuel driving from stand to stand just to wack a few dogs. It's a shame really. I'm sure there would be a lot of guys that would take you up on the offer to come up there and harvest a few, if the border was open, fur prices were great, and the beer was cheap. 

The 50 lb coyotes, is probably exactly what you said, a red wolf/coyote cross. They have heard them called brush wolves. Weather that's the correct slang for them i'm not entirely sure.

The bounty system might be a good way of thinning the numbers in your area. I only have one instance on this that was tried here in ND a few years ago, and i'm not sure if they're still doing it, but a county on SE North Dakota was issuing a bounty of coyotes killed in that county. Well everyone heard about it and were bringing in coyotes from outside that county to collect the bounty and they ran out of money quicker than you can say "BOOO". It didn't do anything for the numbers. I believe they were giving $25/each for bounty, and you could keep the coyote also. So an easy $50 dog at that time. Granted a hundred or more years ago when they had a bounty system they did to well of a job at taking almost all the furbears out of the state. So there can be success if everyone cooperates.

Sounds like you'll be having some fun with the deer and moose tags, I hope you have enough freezer space. Good luck!

xdeano


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## Sask hunter (Sep 11, 2008)

Saskcoyote
I also heard reports of a guy mulie hunting and as he drove by a farm yard seen a coyote trying to lure a small dog out. So they scooped up the dog brought him to the house told the farmer of it. The farmer says go at er push the coyote out and muzzleloader did the rest. My grandpa has mulie tag for zone 25 and I told him to bring extra bullets for coyotes on sunday. There is lots and I am not sure if they are brave or stupid. I missed one running with the muzzleloader and he didn't even speed up he actually slowed down and no he was not hit. Another time close to where I missed that coyote I shot a hun and a coyote came to the top of the hill and just looked at me not even scared I have reason to believe it was the same coyote too.


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## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

xdeano said:


> > King,
> > You're definitely on the right track of making a bit of money with the bedspreads/quilts. Nice and warm. My dogs would have a hay day with a nice bedspread. I can imagine leaving for work and leaving them home, i'd come back with a house of fur chunks the size of my fist.
> >
> > xdeano


I've seen that first hand. I bet you can't have anything fur related in the house!


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Definitely not in my house. My dog would get a hold of it and shred it. It isn't quite as bad with tanned hides, just because of the smell, but I have had a few fox and a few coyotes that were tanned on the walls, and it didn't matter.

It also doesn't matter if the hide is still on the coyote either. 

xdeano


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yo, xdeano: Driving back tonight from spanking a few Montana roosters heard on CBC Radio that the province has enacted the Saskatchewan Coyote Control Program. The program started today and ends March 31, 2010.

The province is paying $20 bounty per yote. To qualify for the bounty four paws must be turned in (Guess there's no use shooting any three-legged Wileys . :lol: ).

The $20 is a bit of an incentive but I don't think it's going to make a big difference because the $20 will just help offset the large drop in fur prices the last year. I don't expect there are going to be any more guys calling than there were a year or two ago, nor any more guys snaring than there were back then as well.

As we talked about earlier, it's mystifying why the province doesn't let in non-resident hunters who'd help boost the economy through gas sales, hotel room sales, etc. Apparently, non-resident coyote hunting was closed because of issues of American hunters abusing the coyote permits to hunt deer in the southern zone. Seems that would be an easy fix, just don't issue permits until after Dec. 31 when all deer seasons are closed.

Who knows, if the bounty program still doesn't solve the problems cattle and sheep producers are encountering, maybe there will be some initiative to get more yote hunters into the province from across the line.

In the meantime, it's Game On again tomorrow morning. Just one problem -- every time I miss, it'll cost me $20. :sniper:

Good luck and shoot straight, bounty or not. Saskcoyote


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Sask,

That's good head way anyhow. Good for you. $20 is a pretty good incentive to kill a few more coyotes that's for sure. Now if only Russia and China would like to buy some fur, we might actually have a decent price on fur. Right now if they were going to buy any fur, it would be pretty hard pressed to get $20 for a top lot dog. Heck NAFTA canceled their last sale if i remember right.

If you only have to give them 4 legs then you'll at least be able to put up that fur also. not a bad deal. I just hope for your sake that they have enough in the program to keep paying out until march 31st.

You've hit the nail on the head with the permits. It would be good revenue for the province that's for sure. Maybe some day.

The coyote numbers are starting to rise in ND again. There for the last few years they've been kind of weak. I can see the writing on the wall, the next few years we're going to have an explosion in population, and with the fur prices low, that isn't going help matters any.

later,
Deano


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

xdeano said:


> Maybe some day.
> 
> Deano


I'll get my truck ready, when are we going? :lol:


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Any time you want, you'd better bring the camper we might stay a while.

Just wait, we might not have to go, we'll have that explosion of coyotes state wide sooner than we think. It's already looking that way.

xdeano


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