# 223 OR 204



## harvy (Jan 20, 2006)

Looking for info and opinions on the 204 vs. the 223. Do u think the 223 is to much for a fox? I am looking for a gun that will knock down a coyote but also not do to much damange to a fox pelt. what do u guys think? How low can you go with the 223 as far as a grain load goes? thanks harv.


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

Personally, I would get the 223. It has that little extra WHOOMP for longer distances and yotes. I think the low grain for 223 is 40 grains if you are wondering bullet wise.


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## kpj17hmr (Feb 12, 2008)

and 223 is alot cheaper to shoot that a 204


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## ay tee (Jun 11, 2007)

if you are reloading your own rounds then the .204 and 223 are very closely priced... if you are shooting factory loads you will be paying more per round for 204... with that said, the 204 works on fox and coyote, depending on bullet the exit hole is not as large as a 223 may be... is the 204 a long range gun, not exactly... if you are calling it is a great gun...

in the end the choice is yours... i would suggest reading some posts on here and other websites... 
my .02 goes to the .204...


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Harvey,

Here are the facts...

As far as "WHOOMP" goes, a factory (Hornady) .204 loaded with a 40 gr V-Max bullet has 674 ft lbs of energy at 300 yards, and is traveling at 2755 fps. Comparatively, a factory (again Hornady) .223 loaded with a 40 gr V-Max bullet has 479 ft lbs of energy at 300 yards, and is traveling at 2324 fps.

With the above loads, the .204 drops 4.3 inches at 300 yards with a 200 yard zero, and the .223 drops 5.5 inches at 300 yards with a 200 yard zero.

The .204 can be loaded with the lighter bullets such as Hornady's 32 gr V-Max. - which may be more fur friendly on fox, depending on the speed at which it is loaded to.

The bottom line is that the .204 is flatter shooting than the .223 (no matter which bullet is used - 40 gr or 32 gr), and it also has more "WHOOMP" than the .223 (no matter which bullet is used).

Both will get the job done on coyotes and fox, but the .204 will do it better.  :sniper:


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

hey kdog, you should run that again, go with 50, or 55 gr bullets in the 223, and take it to 400 or 500 yds. your realy crippling a 223 by feeding it 40 gr bullets. besides that, a 224 40 gr bullet is going to have a much lower b.c. than a 204 40 gr bullet. now, compare the bc of a 50 gr 224 bullet, and a 40 gr 204. im not looking at any data right now, and i have never looked at the ballistics of the 204, but i bet the 223 starts to shine a little when you make it a fair comparison. and, the heavier bullets are also going to be more efficient in a 223 since it actualy has less case cap. than a 204, which is based on the 222 rem mag case.

and to answer the question, either gun is going to work great for fox or coyote under 300 yds, but the 223 is going to be more versatile. and, even if you reload, the day will come when you will have to buy some factory shells for some reason. 223 is available in about any gas station west of the mississippi, and is much cheaper than 204. also, just about every model gun made is available in 223.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't know if you can read this table. It looks good until I submit it then it gets all screwed up.

Trajectory for Hornady .224 dia. 50 gr. V-Max at 3400 Feet per Second 
At an Elevation Angle of: 0 degrees
Ballistic Coefficients of: 0.242 0.242 0.242 0.242 0.242
Velocity Boundaries (Feet per Second) of: 2640 2640 2640 2640
Wind Direction is: 9.0 o'clock and a Wind Velocity of: 10.0 Miles per hour
Wind Components are (Miles per Hour): DownRange: 0.0 Cross Range: -10.0 Vertical: 0.0
Altitude: 1500 Feet Humidity: 78 Percent Pressure: 29.53 in/Hg
Temperature: 59 F
Data Printed in English Units 
Range	Velocity	Energy	Momentum	Drop	Bullet Path	Wind Drift
(Yards)	(Ft/Sec)	(Ft/Lbs)	(Lb-Sec)	(inches)	(inches)	(inches)	
0	3400.0	1283.2	0.75	0.0	-1.5	0.0
50	3196.2	1134.0	0.71	-0.39	0.27	-0.24
100	3002.0	1000.4	0.67	-1.63	1.19	-1.0
150	2816.4	880.5	0.63	-3.84	1.14	-2.32
200	2638.5	772.8	0.59	-7.15	0.0	-4.24
250	2467.6	675.9	0.55	-11.7	-2.39	-6.82
300	2303.1	588.8	0.51	-17.69	-6.22	-10.13
350	2144.8	510.6	0.48	-25.31	-11.68	-14.24
400	1992.8	440.8	0.44	-34.83	-19.03	-19.25
450	1847.4	378.9	0.41	-46.54	-28.58	-25.25
500	1709.2	324.3	0.38	-60.8	-40.68	-32.34
550	1579.2	276.8	0.35	-78.04	-55.76	-40.65
600	1458.3	236.1	0.32	-98.77	-74.33	-50.29
650	1347.9	201.7	0.30	-123.6	-96.99	-61.36
700	1249.7	173.4	0.28	-153.21	-124.44	-73.95
750	1165.4	150.8	0.26	-188.39	-157.46	-88.09
800	1096.1	133.4	0.24	-229.97	-196.88	-103.71
850	1040.9	120.3	0.23	-278.78	-243.53	-120.69
900	996.1	110.1	0.22	-335.61	-298.2	-138.89
950	958.2	101.9	0.21	-401.21	-361.63	-158.17
1000	925.2	95.0	0.21	-476.28	-434.54	-178.48


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

plainsman- can you please post up the tables for a 204 w/ 40 gr if you have them?

just so everyone knows, im not trying to pick a fight, im just curious.


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## JeffinPA (Feb 17, 2008)

<---nother vote for the .204 here. Its the cats meow of predator rounds, and this Kimber is wayyy more accurate than I. Here's a photo of a Kimber 84m in .204 with my son and a very dead red.










Also too, the report is more quiet and the recoil is definitely less. Not that the .223 recoil is painful or anything, but the .204 is just plain more enjoyable to shoot.

I dang near bought a swift and Im soooo glad I didn't.


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## sonic (Mar 9, 2007)

Sweet looking rig- is that an VXlll on top 6.5x20


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

neb_bo said:


> plainsman- can you please post up the tables for a 204 w/ 40 gr if you have them?
> 
> just so everyone knows, im not trying to pick a fight, im just curious.


Both of my programs are kind of old and don't have the 204. If you have the weight, velocity, and ballistic coefficient I'll run the program. Maybe I can find it on the web.
From the Hornady site.
Velocity/energy
204 Ruger 40 gr. V-MAX 3900/1351 3482/1077 3103/855 2755/674 2433/526 2133/404

Yards/drop

200yard / 0 300yard / -4.3 400 yard / -13.2 500 yard/-28.1

The best Hornady loads for the 223 top out at 760 ft/lb at 300 Yards.


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## JeffinPA (Feb 17, 2008)

sonic said:


> Sweet looking rig- is that an VXlll on top 6.5x20


Its actually a vx-L. I've been having a heck of a time finding flip caps for it.

Its brighter than the naked eye, at dusk. One bad mama.

The trigger breaks like a clean glass rod. SNAP! POW!!!


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## holmanjp (Nov 9, 2007)

.204 32 gr. velocity 400 yds 2234---------.223 50 gr 1851
...............................500 yds 1836-----------------------1586
..................ft lbs. ...500 yds. 345------------------------273
..................drop ....400 yds. -13.5...........................-22.9
...............................500 yds. -30..............................-51.7


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

well, looks like i was wrong. the 40 gr 204 has a b.c. of .275, and the 50 gr 224 has a b.c. of .242. i really didnt think those little buggers would hold theyre taters at the longer ranges, but they shoot flatter, and carry more energy. now, does anyone have a wind deflection computer? :x oh well.

my vote still goes to the 223. i reload, but i like the fact that i can get quality factory ammo that shoots good for $15 for 50, instead of $18 or $20 for 20. i do like the 204, and i really thought about getting one, but the availability, and price of ammo was more or less the deciding factor for me.


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## johngfoster (Oct 21, 2007)

Another down-side of the .204 is that it burns barrels much quicker than the .223. Now some of this can be compensated for if you hand-load, by down-loading the .204, and if you load the .223 hot, it will also burn barrels sooner, but still not as quick as the .204. I guess it has to do with muzzel velocity.


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## JeffinPA (Feb 17, 2008)

Certainly, you can't say the .223 stinks and the .204 is the only capable cartridge.

.223 is cheaper to shoot unless you reload. I reload.

.223 is a time proven cartridge that has taken far more game than its new younger sibling the .204.

All that being said though, I love my .204 and wouldnt trade it for the world.

My favorite predator rounds are in order as follows:

.204
.220 Swift
.22-250
.223


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Harvey,

Now that you have the facts, it appears that your decision comes down to this; Do you go with the best performing cartridge (flat, fast), or do you go with the cheaper ammo? :-?

Best of luck to you in your decision............ :sniper:


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## MOGLEY (Dec 20, 2005)

Everytime someone asks about 223 vs 204 it gets technical real quick some info is quite accurate and some not. Both have been illustrated here. With respect to "barrel burning" do not even consider it. Most people will not ever shoot the barrel out on there gun. Prairie dog shooters MAYBE. Fact is you will ruin your barrel sooner by not cleaning it properly long before any effects of hot loads take place. Today's barrels and powders and bullets are far better than in years ago.
I have both 223 and 204. Like them both. My experience is I underestimate that 204 because it is such a mild shooting gun. It really reaches out there! and is extremely accurate. I have a bull barrel and can easily watch my bullet impact any of the unfortunate critters that get in the way. I really like that. 223 is not heavy in recoil but is enough I can't see the bullet hit. I had a hard time deciding which one too...... so I got both. Life is short and the wife is going to complain anyway................


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## JeffinPA (Feb 17, 2008)

MOGLEY said:


> Life is short and the wife is going to complain anyway................


CAN I GET AN AMEN!


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## sonic (Mar 9, 2007)

AMEN!!


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## harvy (Jan 20, 2006)

Thanks a lot fellas, I really appreciate the info, a lot of good points on both sides. Not sure what i am going to do, but will probally go with the 204. 223 is a great one as well. Thanks again, harv.


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## JeffinPA (Feb 17, 2008)

MOGLEY said:


> Life is short and the wife is going to complain anyway................


Omg, I'm still chuckling about that. THAT is the most accurate and profound advice I've ever read on any hunting forum anywhere.


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## Bgunit68 (Dec 26, 2006)

I can't complain. 11 years ago I was married to the Anti-Christ. I couldn't hunt; I could only play 1 softball game a week, etc. I have been dating the same girl since the evil was excised. We've been together over 10 years now. She doesn't care if I hunt all weekend or on my days off. She asked me if I'd like to go on a hunting trip out west for my birthday. She has bought my last 4 rifles and all my electronic toys. She is great! Also, JeffinPA, it's nice to see some easterners on here. I deal with a company in West Chester. Nice rifle. Last year I got an A-Bolt 22-250 or I would have gotten a .204. But now, with the fear of the next election looming over head, I going to buy an AR-15. I guess I'll never get .204. How do you like this site so far? I got so much info from people on here. Really good bunch of guys.


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## JeffinPA (Feb 17, 2008)

Who did you use for your excorcism? I'm in the market...

Nice to meet you too. I used to hang out on the waterfowl forums here a long time ago but suffered hunting forum burnout.

I saw an AR with a .223 AND a .204 upper on one of the classified forums recently. Might have been here. I believe the guy is located in ND. The gun has been haunting me.

I just looked it up and here it is:
http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... hlight=204

Ive got an abolt in 7mag and really like the gun. For awhile I was loading 120gr vmaxs for predators with it. I got some photos of the aftermath that belong on "Faces of Death" lol

Nice to meet you and all the others here.


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