# Coyote varmit rifle



## biggamehunter69 (Feb 6, 2006)

What should i get? Rifle? Caliber? Scope? Help me pick.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Any thing in a Savage. I would go for the 10 Predator Hunter Max 1 in .260(just because I want one) with a NF or IOR.


----------



## Snowgooser (Mar 28, 2008)

X2 on Savage, except I would go with the 12 models in .22-250 or .223. I have one in .22-250 and it is an awesome gun. I have a Bushnell 6-18x50 on it and haven't had an issue in 8 years.


----------



## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

I agree on the Savage, best bang for the buck. I would stay away from the Edge/Axis, and the model 11. But I would go 243 first then 22-250 then 223. The 243 can also be used on Whitetail. The model 11 is ok, but the others have better stocks. A good 3-9x40 scope and you are set.


----------



## fxp_hunter (Feb 4, 2011)

Probably if u are looking for something cheap, i would go with a 17HMR for all around varmints. A 17HMR can easily kill a coyote out to 200 yards with a good shot. If u are looking for more of a plain coyote rifle i would go with 22-250, because of the velocity and accuracy at extended ranges.


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

scrap the 17HMR out to 200yd idea before you even try it, the HMR isn't even a good prairie dog gun at 100 yds. just pick up something cheap in a 22-250 and you'll do fine.

xdeano


----------



## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

I agree on the 17, just didn't want to be the first to say something. Had one, won't have another


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

It's a fun 13 line gopher gun, if that says anything. Does well on the flicker tail gophers too. I've shot several fox with the 20g HP and they do well. But coyotes at 200 is just irresponsible, especially for those Canadian coyotes with the really heavy coats.

xdeano


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

I won't even us a 17 HMR for prairie dogs out to 200 yards. I've tried it a couple times and it doesn't work well at all. Had a Volquartsen for a while. I got rid of it a couple years ago and won't own one again. I bought a 22 Hornet instead and I won't even use that for coyote, too many better rounds.


----------



## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

The question is just too broad to answer "correctly" but I would go with .243 Savage. Plenty of factory ammo out there. As far as scopes, the sky is the limit, knock yourself out...


----------



## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

depends on your price range, but there are a lot of nice varmint rifles in different brands to be had. 
.223 .22-250 would be good, .243 on the large end. You want a scope with at least 9 power.


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

243, or any of the 6mm's, actually. In a used 700 with a quality 3-9X scope.



> A 17HMR can easily kill a coyote out to 200 yards with a good shot.


Where's the preferred point of impact for that "good shot" on the 200 yard coyote with the HMR? Prairie dogs past about 140 often need to be hit again, so where do you hit coyotes to kill them at 200?


----------



## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

> A 17HMR can easily kill a coyote out to 200 yards with a good shot.





> Where's the preferred point of impact for that "good shot" on the 200 yard coyote with the HMR? Prairie dogs past about 140 often need to be hit again, so where do you hit coyotes to kill them at 200?


Headshot probably.
But it would be a very difficult shot unless you have a good rest, no wind, and a coyote that is stopped and giving a good angle.


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

you'd be hard pressed to get a head shot at 200, let a lone 100. most of the guys that bring this 17 HMR crap up would have a hard time hitting a quarter at 100yds from a bench on a perfect day. a coyotes brain is only about the size of a walnut, miss the walnut and you'll just see the coyote pawing at it's face or running like roadrunner.

pick an adequate caliber, because when it comes down to shooting an animal, leave the guess work at home. I'd steer you into a 22-250 or a 220 swift. But anything in the 22cal, 243, 25, 6.5 would be decent.

xdeano


----------



## fox412 (Mar 18, 2005)

I am no expert but if I were going to set up a rifle for varmits only and on the budget that I could afford I right now I think that I would buy a savage in either 223 or 22-250. I have 2 220 swifts and I love them but good luck finding factory ammo. I handload them with a friend. I think that with savage rifles you get a great gun for your money. Not that other factories make junk I just think you can't beat the accutrigger and accustock for the price.

As for scope. Personnally I am a fan of a 4.5 x 14. I think that the rule for buying a scope is simple research, look through them and buy the best that you can afford. I have a scheels scope that I bought when I was young and poor and I like it and on my new rifle I put a zeiss victory on it and I love it.

IMHO buy something that you like and can afford. Research it and go to stores and mess with them. Look through many scopes put many guns to your shoulder and see what fits you well put them up to your shoulder with your coat on. Once you make the purchase have fun and be safe.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Csquared, when are you going to give up the 700 and come over to the Savage darkside? 8)

Deano, have you seen the quarter in my truck? I put 5 shots in to it at 100yds with my Savage .17 and it was only a decent day. CoyoteSniper saw it. Hardest thing was the dang 1MOA dot. I couldn't even see the quarter! :lol:

I can't see any responsible hunter shooting a coyote at 200 with the HMR, like has been said, PDs shot at 100 often get under ground before they expire, can't imagine a yote going down.


----------



## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

fxp_hunter said:


> Probably if u are looking for something cheap, i would go with a 17HMR for all around varmints. A 17HMR can easily kill a coyote out to 200 yards with a good shot. If u are looking for more of a plain coyote rifle i would go with 22-250, because of the velocity and accuracy at extended ranges.


Gotta be a keyboard commando... :thumb:


----------



## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

fox412 said:


> As for scope. Personnally I am a fan of a 4.5 x 14. I think that the rule for buying a scope is simple research, look through them and buy the best that you can afford. I have a scheels scope that I bought when I was young and poor and I like it and on my new rifle I put a zeiss victory on it and I love it.


Good choice of scopes, I have had many leupolds and higher end scopes but I always keep going back to the Zeiss scopes. I have a 3x9 on my .223 . Its nice to have the extra power to 14 though for sure.


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Savage260 said:


> Deano, have you seen the quarter in my truck? I put 5 shots in to it at 100yds with my Savage .17 and it was only a decent day. CoyoteSniper saw it. Hardest thing was the dang 1MOA dot. I couldn't even see the quarter! :lol:


Nope haven't seen the quarter. But that's why I said "most of the guys", and it's usually the guys with the little 17 that bring it up. You'll have to show me the next time, say Friday. How'd you get that quarter to stay in one spot for 5 shots? oke: I've shot a lot of primers out of spent brass with the 17HMR at 100yds, but I'm not going to shoot a coyote with one. Now a fox, I'd give him a 20g HP no problem, but it wouldn't be in the head.

Csquared, don't go to the dark side, savages suck. oke:

xdeano


----------



## SniperPride (Sep 20, 2004)

xdeano said:


> How'd you get that quarter to stay in one spot for 5 shots?


Yeah a good group on paper is one thing but getting a quarter to stay put for 5 shots may be harder than getting 5 shots within half an inch :wink:


----------



## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

Rifle, What every you can afford and like the feel of.
Caliber, Again what ever trips your trigger as there is a huge list of workable calibers.
Scope again it has to fit YOUR buget and what you like. 
The whole question boils down to *YOU*I think questions like this are just out and out not so smart    .

Me I would recommend a custom built $3000.00 minium investment rifle taylored to fit me. Caliber I would get some wild cat or make up a new one Just for my self and what I wanted to do like short range work or long range work. Well with no buget why not have 2 made one for short work and one for long work. I bet a 300 Win Mag necked down to 6 MM would be a kicken long range caliber.

I wouldn't even begin to look at a scope till they brought out the ones costing at least $1500.00. Remember you get what you pay for.

 Al


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

It was one red and one yellow push pin. Worked quite nicely! Al, feeling a little saucy today? That didnt sound like one of your normal posts. I would love to get a round built "just for me".


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I won't even start Savage260... oke:

On a budget, go pick up every single rifle you can, pick the one that feels the best and buy it, get the caliber you want. But as Al says glass is where you really want to put the money into. I've seen it myself that with cheap glass you can shoot ok, but swap up to a more expensive scope and the groups seem to shrink for some reason.  maybe it's just the confidence in the equipment.

xdeano


----------



## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

xdeano said:


> I've seen it myself that with cheap glass you can shoot ok, but swap up to a more expensive scope and the groups seem to shrink for some reason.  maybe it's just the confidence in the equipment.
> 
> xdeano


I can attest to this!!!! Same can be said for purchasing a more comfortable stock too. 

But than again, I've been recently dubbed "go go gadget man". :lol:


----------



## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

It is so the same all the time. Tell me what varmit rifle to buy and all the trimmings. No buget or any other information added as to size of person so My recommendations are as good as all the rest.

*Me I would recommend a custom built $3000.00 minium investment rifle taylored to fit me. Caliber I would get some wild cat or make up a new one Just for my self and what I wanted to do like short range work or long range work. Well with no buget why not have 2 made one for short work and one for long work. I bet a 300 Win Mag necked down to 6 MM would be a kicken long range caliber.

I wouldn't even begin to look at a scope till they brought out the ones costing at least $1500.00. Remember you get what you pay for.*

Even the questions about what do you recommend a Remington model 700 or a Winchester model 70 makes more sence. At least the poster has an Idea of what a rifle is.

 Al


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

How about "what camo works best?". Gotta love that one. For these broad questions I just suggest what ever it is that I want to buy next. I want to see what will happen to a coyote after a 300gr SMK meets it. So instead of the .260 I will suggest a .338 LM or Edge or RUM.

Deano, what do you mean, you won't even start? On what?


----------



## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

Ahh...what sniper rifle should I get to shoot p-dogs with? :thumb:


----------



## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Or the classic what is better moa or mil or how should i break my barrel in.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

"Ahh...what sniper rifle should I get to shoot p-dogs with?"

I think we should try to start a trend of ninja throwing stars for p-dogs instead of sniper rifles. I bet if we got enough guys talking about it on here some moron would think it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and give it a try. They would have to be tactical stars painted flat black of course!


----------



## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

:rollin: 
With a tactical 20 MOA Weaver rail those Ninja stars are great up to 1,000 yards...


----------



## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I like the image of a como clad person face and hands blackened crawling across the ground with the sword afixed on his back to skewer a PD once in range.

 Al


----------



## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Ambush Hunter said:


> :rollin:
> With a tactical 20 MOA Weaver rail those Ninja stars are great up to 1,000 yards...


add the counter sniper mild dot in a mil dot reticle and i can easly see the Ninja stars reaching 2000 yards no problem


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Come on now, lets be realistic. You can't put a rail, no matter how tactical it is, on a throwing star. It will shoot the BC all to hell and gone!!! Now, thinking a little more clearly, all it would take is a tactical(one you can sit on, with camo netting over you, of course) clay pigeon thrower, suitably modified, and you could chuck those suckers 2000yds easy!!!

Kurt, they are TACTICAL stars, you couldn't see em at all.......duh!!!! :rollin:


----------



## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

are we talking 4 blade or 3 blade ninja stars here. I heard there is a new carbon wraped high bc 4 blade to hit the market shortly but keep that on the down low the secret service does not want any one else to have them they are govt over runs


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Oh, great, I hadn't even thought about 3 vs. 4 pointed stars! I suppose the 3 point ceramics are great for velocity, but don't buck the wind very well, and the 4 point carry more energy to the target, but velocities are not as high. CRAP!!! I wonder which one will kill a pd better at 600+ yds. That is where I do most of my star sniping. ***


----------



## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

I think the last issue of ninja star monthly would have you go with the 4 blade ninja star for 600 plus pdogs the extra energy really slices them in half it stated. Also they are handy in case of a zombie attack.


----------



## coyote sniper (Apr 15, 2009)

maybe xdeano could ride his bicycle through the PD town throwing the stars!! lol


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

xdeano preparing for some PD's.


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Deano's younger than I expected :wink:

Not comin over to the "dark side" guys. I have absolutely nothing bad to say about Savage...it's just more cost effective, all things considered, to get a used 700....or to add a barrel to one of my switch-barrel rifles. So I don't expect to be adding any Savages to my cabinet anytime soon.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Deano's decently young(I am 33 and still think I am young any way), but way too skinny to be that guy!!! I guess the bigger you are the more room you have for swords on your belt??? I bet that guy is deadly stealthy!!!

Csquared, you gotta at least try it once, Savage is sooooo nice! I do like the idea of your switch barrels better though. More difficult to set up first time, but after that they are better.


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

LOL! :lol: :rollin: You guys are evil! Yeah that's a bit younger and a bit fatter than I am. But i do have a couple of "s-words" from when I was doing martial arts Demo's at basketball games and tournaments.

I'd rather use the stealth bike to get to my calling locations during the summer months. 

xdeano


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

I thought you may have put on a winter coat! :beer: 
Some natural insulation for the winter calling. :iroll:


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I forgot...I did try it once. I have a Savage .17HMR with their accutrigger...does that count?


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

a hundred pounds is a lot of extra weight to carry around on snowshoes. I have a hard enough time with my broken hip. 

xdeano


----------



## specialpatrolgroup (Jan 16, 2009)

My current varmit rifle is a Savage model 12 in 22-250 with a Nikon Coyote Special sitting on top, the scope has a recticle that adjusts for bullet drop that I find handy.


----------



## VaFatcat (Jan 23, 2011)

17 hmr @ <75 yrds, 22wmr <125, 22-250 < 450..... I use all three in a Savage and they take care of business.. Your best success with any will depend on how close you can get em to you.. Best of luck


----------



## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

Remington 700 BDL action rebarreled to except the 264 RLb wild cat. 
A bit more latter when I find the barrel maker I want to go with.

 Al


----------



## sobtodd (Mar 9, 2011)

xdeano said:


> scrap the 17HMR out to 200yd idea before you even try it, the HMR isn't even a good prairie dog gun at 100 yds. just pick up something cheap in a 22-250 and you'll do fine.
> 
> xdeano


you should try the savage 17 unreal at 100 yards


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Here it is!!!! A rare public appearance of the inventor of the "tactical ballistic ninja star", the one, the only, Ilive Withmymom. Ilive will be handing out autographed mall security badges at the zombie shoot. Bring your tricked out AR and paint your face and you can sign up for a free tactical ballistic ninja star package!!!! Bring your friend, that is if his mommy will let him go!!! 









And we wonder why the non shooting world thinks we are crazy? This guy looks like a friggin MORON, and they put him on an e-mail they send to thousands of people. :eyeroll: I know it is all supposed to be in fun for the event they put on, but come on people, swords and face paint? Really?


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

ya seez

Yuz needz taz git yersef one of deez here rivles


----------



## kstone1020 (May 5, 2011)

6X 22-50mm Bushnell sportview approx. $200-$250 depending on where you go
Remington 700 .223 Fitted with a #6 Bull barrel, be sure the barrel is set up to free float. approx. $800-$1000.
If you have intentions of hunting deer as well go for the .243 with the same set up

You may find a Remington 770 Cheaper, they are very similar rifles
I would bet on my remington 700 in .308 against any savage in a 300 savage, 303 savage or any other round near the .308 by ballistics.

I shoot 168 Grain poly coated boat-tail sahara at my matches. I group 3.5-4" groups at 1000yds.

In the end you will eventually pick up a rifle and know "This is the one".

Good luck and keep shooting


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

kstone1020 said:


> I shoot 168 Grain poly coated boat-tail sahara at my matches. I group 3.5-4" groups at 1000yds.


guess I'd like to see the equipment you use to accomplish that feat.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/200 ... ld-record/
Heavy gun world record is about 3".

Light gun world record is just over 4.5".
http://mt1000yd.com/


> Tom Mousel of Kalispell, Mt., set 2 new World Records in the Light Gun 10 Match Group Agg (4.5813)


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Me too...and what's a poly coated sahara?


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Well, not being one to wave the BS flag.........oh, wait, yes I am, here goes........ :bs:

You don't shoot a 168gr any thing out of the .308 at 1000yds.

You don't shoot 1000yd comp with a cheap crap bushnell and get any thing like 4" groups.

Poly coated sahara sounds a lot like moly coated sierra don't you all think?

I am calling "mall ninja" on this one. Show some proof of your amazing groups.

Got any info on tactical ballistic ninja stars for us?


----------



## kstone1020 (May 5, 2011)

you guys can mock what you like, Im not the best speller. and yes, I have shot 1000yds accurate through a M40A1 with a NATO 7.62mm 168 grain moly ( apparently thats how you spell that) coated boat-tail Chambered in .308 Winchester. If you have an idea of what a remington 700 is, Its an exact mock up of the M40A1. See, in the marine corps, I was a 2111 Armorer Prior to transferring to 2nd Marine Division MEF. I did infact, In Fellujia, shoot a 1000yd range and painted target. Maybe the temperature, humidity, or elevation had something to do with it... Or maybe I had one hell of a spotter. After all, all I did was aim where he told me to, breathe then squeeze. Either way I did it. Im not always that consistant. Only did it once and did pretty good at it. Its not like I get to shoot at that distance regularly. I only shoot at 600yds with an amature circit. Sorry about posting 1000yds. Aparrently, I got confused. I was thinking about what I did in the Corps, to what I do today. I never boasted to be the best or greatest only stated my personal best, not what I used. Figured the knowlege I have in the 27 years I have fired weapons, may help a fellow shooter getting started with an unfamilliar caliber. 
IF you read he stated he has a budgit, Didnt figure it was in him to spend 600+ on optics, the bushnell sportview is a good scope for the money, by no means what I used cause The Unurtl scope on the M40A1 is not sold to the public. The equipment I stated is a good setup if you are working with a budgit.

Aside from the misspells, you should read more carefully I never stated my equipment, just that I use a heavy barrel remington 700 In .308 and I use a sierra ( again, Im not a real quick guy with the english skills) its a boat-tail fmj moly coated.

So again, sorry for the misspells, I only had a .19GPA, couldnt go to college so it was military for me.
What I was stating was, against a savage I believe remington is superior. just my experiences and opinion.


----------



## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

the 168 will not make it to 1000 they start to tumble around 800 or so.That has been proven time and time agin. Bryan Litz has a great book on ballistics and what certain bullets will do. Now the 175 smk will do it. The unrtel is a cool scope as i got one that my grandpa has on his .218bee from back but they have not been used for a few years. The last i saw schmidt&bender had the Marine contract. I would love the 168 to shoot 1000 as i have about 500 to load up but they go all crazy past 800 in my experience.


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

the scope is now made by US Optics.
http://www.usoptics.com/product.php?partnumber=MST-100

glad you (cough cough) did so well.


----------



## kstone1020 (May 5, 2011)

Well, I was unaware that Unertl went public, havent came across one. I was in the Corps from 98-03. back then, they werent public.
now I might have to go find one. They are fantastic optics made just a few miles from my home.

Best get that cough** looked at, theres a bad case of strep throat going around.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

When you have no clue what you are talking about it is usually better to keep your mouth shut. That way people won't know that you really don't know. Talking often times exposes ignorance. If you were an armorer you would know EXACTLY what was fired, and what scope was used, and not have to make crap up to sound cool. 
As far as Savage vs Rem, again you have no clue so you probably shouldn't be giving advice!


----------



## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Savage260 said:


> When you have no clue what you are talking about it is usually better to keep your mouth shut. That way people won't know that you really don't know.!


Oh come on Savage, he does speak some truth...... oke: 



> What I was stating was, against a savage I believe remington is superior. just my experiences and opinion.


Couldn't pass that one up. Sorry Savage and Huntin1........Carry on. :beer:


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

if you are so inclined to drop the coin, you could get yourself a PVS-14 or even the AN/PVS-10. But hey, what do I know....

I'm just some backwoods hick that likes to shoot the M14 to 1100m with iron sights.


----------



## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

kstone1020 said:


> Well, I was unaware that Unertl went public, havent came across one. I was in the Corps from 98-03. back then, they werent public.
> now I might have to go find one. They are fantastic optics made just a few miles from my home.
> 
> Best get that cough** looked at, theres a bad case of strep throat going around.[/quote
> ...


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Kstone, when were you in fallujah? I know a marine or two that were there also. Maybe you worked on their weapons?

Farmerj, what bullets are you using?


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Unertl scopes go for thousands of dollars. They're very prised scopes by those who make a replica, or trying to complete an actual gun. That would be the last scope i'd put on a current rifle, that would be a safe queen.

Molybdenium disolfide is not shot by the military as far as I am aware. Probably because it's dirty and actually slows velocity.

M118LR is 175g SMK used for Matches and Sniping. 2580 fps.
M852 is 168g SMK used for Matches 2550 fps.

Here is the 168g SMk at 2550. You'll see that between 800-900yds the velocity will dip below 1100fps and that's about where the sound barrier will be broken and the bullet will start to tumble. You can shoot these past that but you will not hit targets with a 3.5-4" group that I can tell you. I have shot these at 880 and I have found several strikes on the sandstone outcrops that show the bullets are coming in sideways.










Just thought i'd give some insight. I've had several people tell me that they'll make it to 1K, they won't. 175's will with no problem.

xdeano


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

Savage260 said:


> Farmerj, what bullets are you using?


M118LR

hand loads are Hornady 178gr A-max with H4895.

But damn do the M118LR work nice.


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

farmerj, you said iron sights above, but _PLEASE_ tell me those 200 yard groups were shot using a *BIG* scope!


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

Nope, they were shot with irons.

ETA
And yes, the M118LR IS a 3 shot group. The rifle was built with this load in mind.


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

DANG IT! Wish I could do that! Can't do it some days WITH a scope!


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

Csquared said:


> DANG IT! Wish I could do that! Can't do it some days WITH a scope!


It's about firing position and fundamentals. Remain steady and follow through. Don't make any fast moves.

The day and position of the rifle that target was shot from 200 yards. Exactly as it was shot except I wasn't behind the rifle.









As he pointed out. I pulled the trigger. The spotter told me where to move the sights.









The fun part was shooting clay pigeons. Someone had set up 10 and didn't shoot them. I only shot at 5 that day.









As to Unertl.
The original owner passed away. Someone bought the name and tried to continue marketing the same scope. They got themselves into some hotwater and basically tried to "go away".

US Optics picked up the design and the last I heard were trying to sell the scope, but were still having "patent" issues from people who had ties to the original Unertl.

Take it with a grain of salt. It's what I have been able to pick up over the years reading up on M40 and M24 systems and trying to figure out if I want a Remington or a Savage based bolt gun.

I settled on Savage and I settled on .260 Rem and .280 Rem for my calibers.

A mouse gun might come back to the stable, but if it does, it will be for service rifle competition only.


----------



## People (Jan 17, 2005)

Almost always the 168gr SMK will not make it to the 1,000yd mark. Some days the bullet gods smile and will let them go 1,000. Those days are very rare, so rare to a point that the rule is anything past 900 is pure luck if you get a hit even with a side way bullet. If they were consistent at going sideways and still tracking they would be great. I did manage to hit a coyote once with one of them past the 1K mark. It was almost a full mag before a bullet hit. Yes that was almost 20 rds. My Grandpa just started laughing and said we better pace this off. We both walked and counted then did it again with a rope he had that was very long and the math added up to something over 1,000 yds. I do not remember any more as it was a pure luck shot. I do mean luck. There was so much Kentucky windage I do not know if I could have repeated it again if the bullet would track great.

Now if you are shooting 800 or less the 168gr SMK is a very good bullet. Lets face it most hunters or sniper want-to-be's do not shoot very far if at all past 100 or 200yds.

US Optics did get all of the old parts and assembled quite a few of the Unertal scopes that were just like the USMC used to use. They are very expensive. I also read that Marine Snipers were not very fond of the scope because if it was jarred hard it would lose zero.


----------



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

farmerj, come on, you just circled some holes that were really close together, you can't shoot that well with open sights, every mall ninja knows that! :rollin: I second csquared, except I can't EVER do that even with a scope on a perfect day!!!

A while back I read a book, I think it was called "Shooter"(not positive) by a Marine sniper. He says he used an Unertl 10X in 2003 on his rifle. Any thoughts, ideas, comments? Might this have been one of the "new" versions?

Oh, and what in hell.....you don't ever "settle" on a SAVAGE!!!! :******: :rollin:


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

never read the book. So I can't say. I have never really been happy with how the military "acquires" toys and equipment. But I'm just a little fish in the bigger barrel there.

Scopes definitely help at distance. But higher powers add there own issues to the situation. Over 4X, you need to close one eye. The brain can't focus and you have a hard time seeing. Just physiology.

Each platform has it's strengths. Savage, in this case, won for me when I started to see how easy it was for a shooter at home could change the barrel/bolt face to get different calibers. Minor changes, it's nicer to have separate rifles and all. But if you are making major changes, it's nice to have that flexibility.

Palma shooters use 155 gr bullets to get to 1000 yards. But they have 30" barrels to do it with as well. I know I have used ball ammo in the M14 and the M1 garand to go to 1000 yards. I also know that you get a rather large, erratic and unpredictable spread with ball ammo. I have seen keyholes on 3 separate targets for about a 20 foot spread and that's just the stuff that hits the paper. Sitting in the target bunker you start to here buzzing and not a crack, you suck up against the wall quick. So either use a palma set-up or else go up to a 175 gr bullet.

might help if you lay off the java a little bit. Groups might tighten up. eace: :beer:

In all honesty, I had scopes on everything because I had a hard time seeing targets. In 2003, I had lasik surgery done and I ditched my scopes. It's been a few years since my last eye exam, but I still see clearly, but I was testing to 20/15 regularly and on really good days with a good nights sleep have tested as low as 20/12. I was one of the really lucky ones and never had an adjustment. I had my procedure done by Valley Laser Eye in Fargo. So I am enjoying it while I have it.

Where'd Kstone go? oke: oke:


----------



## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

To much info, he must have bugged out.

I use the 155g Lapua in my 22" barrel and I can easily reach out to 1K+ and i'm only running them at 2825fps.

I'd like to hear a bit more on the Lasik, any discomforts while having it done? Give us the run down. I know there are a few guys on this forum who can see worth a hoot and I'm one of them. I just got a brochure in the make for TLC there in Fargo in todays mail. price, visits etc.

xdeano


----------



## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

went in to the eye place over on 13 Ave by Chuck E Cheese. Got the approval that I was a candidate. Went to Lomak when they were by the Fryin' Pan on Main Ave. Had the procedure done.

Eyes burned like hell so I went to bed for the afternoon. Woke up that evening to eyes feeling better and went to walmart to find the darkest sunglasses I could. Went back home to bed for the night.

Woke up the next morning to a slight dryness to the eyes. Used Bausch & Lomb eye wetting drops for about 3 months and been fine ever since.

Was around 18-1900 at the time.

Technology has changed since then so I can't compare then to now.

They talked about halo's and such, but I was told it would only make them appear if you had them before. Only time I notice them is when I have had way too little sleep.

I also wear safety glasses when I shoot. I don't understand why, but the ESS ICE that I use, especially the amber lens really help. I can look over the top or bottom and I swear there is ever so slight a magnification. So most of the time, I shoot those with my rifles. Eagle vision and great glasses are an awesome combo.

http://www.esseyepro.com/ICE-Tactical-K ... etail.html


----------



## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

After signing up for some of the online training on snipershide and training my self to shoot with both eyes open witha scope that has helped alot. I dont get the eye fatigue i used to with one eye shut and seems i can make follow up shots at alot faster and consistant rate. Oh i am sick of the rain i was going to go shoot pdogs to day with my boy, grandpa gave him a little single shot .22 hornet and about 200 brass and 1000 bullets. He is 6 and has some trouble winking with the left eye would it be counter productive to use an ey patch right now just to help him with that or just keep practiceing on the closing the left eye? I kind of think he just getting in a hurry and does not want to take the time to concentrate last year he no problem with the winking so was thinking eye patch might help him relax more just dont want to mess him up in the long run.


----------

