# McCain Makes Economic Sense



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080415/ap_ ... in_economy

this proposal makes sense, as opposed to Obama's plan to raise taxes on all us rich guys, you know who you are, you make more than $60,000 a year!

raising taxes during an economic downturn would be just plain suicide for our economy, but Obama Jr. just doesn't understand economics!
$113 oil and $6 corn and world food shortages have begun......U.S. just released $200 billion in world food aid for 3rd world countries.....we are struggling here folks, why would we want to tax our citizens even more at this time? :eyeroll:


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## blugillin (Apr 3, 2008)

Go ahead vote for the crazy guy. Raising taxes for the upper 10% bracket ( if we can only find a way to have them actually pay taxes) and pumping money into government programs (Social Welfare, etc..) is the only way to overturn a recession(depression). But I suppose bombing Iran is more important to you....


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Its a proven FACT hat low taxes generates more government income. Where you been?


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

blugillin said:


> Go ahead vote for the crazy guy. Raising taxes for the upper 10% bracket ( if we can only find a way to have them actually pay taxes) and pumping money into government programs (Social Welfare, etc..) is the only way to overturn a recession(depression). But I suppose bombing Iran is more important to you....


That is so funny! People who have money invest it things that create jobs. A number of construction projects both commercial and residential housing are being undertaken by those whom you want to pay the way for welfare. Instead they are funding projects where people are working and materials are being purchased helping others retain employment.

It is absolutely astounding that so many people are clueless as to the impact that the top 5% of tax payers have on job creation and retention. They are the ones with liquid capital that is critical for start up operations, funding of construction loans etc...

You want an education on this, simply check out the data provided to Congress from the Government Accounting Office. For example in the last budget that Conrad is parading around as claiming to be balanced by allowing the current tax cuts to expire. His budget projects a continued rising economy with and expanding employment base as well as income level increases.

However in the two years following the expiration of the cuts, he plugs the drop in revenue with a $2 Trillion dollar figure of collecting noncollectable taxes. That $2 trillion dollar drop in revenue is a result of liquid capital being taken out of the market stifling job growth, small business expansion and a down turn in durable goods orders projected by the GAO!!!!!!!

So tell us again why the primers for the economy should have their taxes raised?


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## blugillin (Apr 3, 2008)

wow is this an election year or what. the choke button is stuck because the primers want to conserve there capital in fear of losing there hard earned (money that should have been paid in to the IRS) money! Human nature is greed me boy. They prime because it pays them too. No matter who comes on here and spouts facts which is usually opinion, has some sort of personal connection with there beliefs, remember that your situation may not be mine. The real fact is that, unless we are all equal we are all getting screwed no matter what.


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

blugillin said:


> The real fact is that, unless we are all equal we are all getting screwed no matter what.


Wow.... The socialist has spoken. Fact of the matter we ARE all equal. Each man and each woman has the same opportunity to bust their *** and become more than they are. If you arent happy with where you are, work harder and work smarter. No nation ever improved themselves in the long term by turning to socialism.


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## FlashBoomSplash (Aug 26, 2005)

> The real fact is that, unless we are all equal we are all getting screwed no matter what.


I love this line it is so true. Its basically why I am a conservative. You should only get what you earn nothing more nothing less.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

amen.


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## blugillin (Apr 3, 2008)

Gun Owner said:


> blugillin said:
> 
> 
> > The real fact is that, unless we are all equal we are all getting screwed no matter what.
> ...


You two pups are like pitbulls, I was so simply saying like the old addage Until you walk a mile in another mans shoes...BlahBlahBlah

No one ever said anything about Socialism.

I can no more than understand why you believe in what you do until I know where you come from and where you have been. But when a candidate like McCain comes along and threatens my pursuit of happiness. Although I own alot of guns, and bleed the second amendment, I cannot vote for McCain because he stands to alter my life more than any other candidate. I am happy with where I am right now. But McCain threatens that.


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## FlashBoomSplash (Aug 26, 2005)

> But McCain threatens that.


How? Because he is to liberal he threatens me in that way too. But he is the lesser of three evils.


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## blugillin (Apr 3, 2008)

FlashBoomSplash said:


> > But McCain threatens that.
> 
> 
> How? Because he is to liberal he threatens me in that way too. But he is the lesser of three evils.


His policies threaten my livelihood!! And my Wife's and my Mothers and my Father-in-law. So in essence he threatens my pursuit of Happiness.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

> I cannot vote for McCain because he stands to alter my life more than any other candidate. I am happy with where I am right now.


Collecting others tax dollars? Or are you afraid McCain will expose the facts and fiction surrounding ethanol, or is it that he is opposed to pork projects which would mean less likely he would approve a bloated Farm Bill?

Unless you are on the public dole, McCain is offering the least amount of intrusion or change in peoples economic status and well being than the other two. So fess up! Tell us the real skinny instead!

There is another reason I suspect, but I will withhold that and let you speak!


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## FlashBoomSplash (Aug 26, 2005)

> His policies threaten my livelihood!! And my Wife's and my Mothers and my Father-in-law. So in essence he threatens my pursuit of Happiness.


That doesnt answer my question. Are they all on welfare. Or do they work like most Americans. If they work hard and take care of there own they have nothing to worry about.


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## blugillin (Apr 3, 2008)

I work in the Crop Insurance industry. As for my family members they are not on welfare, they provide Social Welfare programs. What do you do, I am sure I can find a reason he will affect your livelihood. Come on don't be shy, let it all out, or are you embarrassed??


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

FlashBoomSplash said:


> > The real fact is that, unless we are all equal we are all getting screwed no matter what.
> 
> 
> I love this line it is so true. Its basically why I am a conservative. You should only get what you earn nothing more nothing less.


A-frickin-men to that, too bad the real world isn't fair!


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## FlashBoomSplash (Aug 26, 2005)

.


> Come on don't be shy, let it all out, or are you embarrassed??


This is one way he will effect my life.

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=52501

But the other 2 num skulls will too.

I will tell you about myself I am not shy. I went to college worked my way through bounced around to a couple of jobs in my field (wildlife) and now I work hard everyday come home to wife who works hard within her field and she is very successful. I own a little land and a small house out in the country that I worked hard to get. I love to hunt, fish, and shoot. I am living my dream and I earned every dam piece of it. I am also a proud American I fly the flag with pride in my yard and I donate goods to our men and women in the military because they deserve it.


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## blugillin (Apr 3, 2008)

FlashBoomSplash said:


> .
> 
> 
> > Come on don't be shy, let it all out, or are you embarrassed??
> ...


There are hardly any differences in our lives, except that my wife made me live in town. Boo!

Wildlife huh, Well I went to college for soil science, environmental Studies and GIS. I work in the later field. I guess you could say that I am very accomplished in my field. I can and have worked in other industries doing GIS work. But in order to encompass soils and GIS the crop insurance industry is the perfect fit for me. I guess I can thank George W. Bush for my job, because it was him winning in 2000 that led me to go and get my Masters degree. If not I would probably be working for a Federal or State agency, and not making near the money I do now.

If you work in the Public Sector you know that Budgets can mean a difference in having a job or not, moving to where there are jobs and such . Good luck. And I hope you continue to reach higher levels of success in your career.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

I am self employed. So you feel that increasing welfare recipients creates job security for you? Pretty sad point of view, but not surprising! Oh and by the way! Life in the US provides all of us an opportunity, what we CHOOSE TO DO WITH THAT OPPORTUNITY is on us!

Pardon me for not feeling that I am required to pay for a meth head being on disability because he chose to burn his brain out. Pardon me for not feeling pity for some smuck who chooses to be a dead beat and did not finish high school and became a thief and now wants me to support him.

However I will gladly support programs and help for those who had no choice or control over their lot in life. I have a cousin who is mentally disabled due to complications at birth. I have a friend who is now wheel chair bound because of allergic reaction to a bee sting. He fell off a hay stack while working. There are a lot of people who truly deserve help, but are being robbed of funds and services because of the attitude that they are not responsible for their choices!

I have not seen anything from McCain that would indicate he is in opposition to helping deserving people!


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Im a blue collar worker. I spent the last 8 years running the family plumbing buisness, but because of some situations in life I have no control over (mostly Nevada's sub par health care situation), Im on my way to Utah. I've already been hired on as a Fleet mechanic for Wal-Mart.

I've worked hard for everything I have, so far as the borderline crackhouse I turned into a home for my family, to my Bronco that I rebuilt in my driveway. For what its worth, Im not even 30


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## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

I'd also like to point out that in my income bracket, Im far better off financially under some of the democratic ideas. The reason I vote down socialism is I have no problem paying my dues myself, and not only do I not want to pay someone elses way when I become "Upper middle class", but I also dont want someone else paying my way right now.


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## blugillin (Apr 3, 2008)

Ron Gilmore said:


> I am self employed. So you feel that increasing welfare recipients creates job security for you? Pretty sad point of view, but not surprising! Oh and by the way! Life in the US provides all of us an opportunity, what we CHOOSE TO DO WITH THAT OPPORTUNITY is on us!
> 
> Pardon me for not feeling that I am required to pay for a meth head being on disability because he chose to burn his brain out. Pardon me for not feeling pity for some smuck who chooses to be a dead beat and did not finish high school and became a thief and now wants me to support him.
> 
> ...


My Family mostly works with the elderly (Social Workers). My Mom works for a Community Action Agency that does Planned Parenthood, Housing, etc..

Trust me I am opposed to those who suck off the teet. If you are on Welfare and you can't or won't pass a drug test than you don't get welfare. Lets start there. I too am also self-employed as well as a full time employee at a company. I pay alot of taxes, and it angers me about immigrant welfare as well. But I am definitely opposed to cutting Social Welfare programs, they have there place in our society. Laziness is not helplessness!!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

And here we have George Bush... economic expert... listen closely..






'nuff said.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Although, I've discussed some of McCain's plans that I've liked, such as possibly cutting the corporate tax rate, a lot of what McCain says just doesn't make any sense.



> While he touched on a wide-range of issues, McCain did not discuss the soaring federal deficit or enormous war costs. He also offered few details for his new proposals and did not include estimated price tags.


There's the nail in the coffin for why McCain won't get my vote. The conservatives "read 'fiscal liberals'" talk about being better economically...while being behind a war that is bankrupting our country.

It really doesn't matter what we do domestically, if we continue to spend money in Iraq we're not going to be able to balance a budget. It's not possible. It doesn't matter who's tax plan is better...with the massive amount of money being spent on our military, we aren't going to be able to make ends meet.


> McCain also sought to draw a contrast with Democratic rivals Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton, saying they would impose the single largest tax increase since World War II by allowing tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003 - and that McCain, himself, opposed - to expire.


Yeah, why the big flip-flop? McCain opposed the tax cuts and now he's ardently for them?

McCain has flip-flopped on more issues then Kerry did. He's been pandering to voters almost as much as Hillary.


Ron Gilmore said:


> Collecting others tax dollars? Or are you afraid McCain will expose the facts and fiction surrounding ethanol, or is it that he is opposed to pork projects which would mean less likely he would approve a bloated Farm Bill?


Ron he used to oppose ethanol, but he's flip-flopped on that too...

From Time magazine...


> That's why biofuel-pandering has become virtually mandatory for presidential contenders. John McCain was the rare candidate who vehemently opposed ethanol as an outrageous agribusiness boondoggle, which is why he skipped Iowa in 2000. But McCain learned his lesson in time for this year's caucuses. By 2006 he was calling ethanol a "vital alternative energy source."


McCain has really softened on his pork barrel stuff too. The guy is doing whatever it takes to get into office...just like Hillary.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Matt, lets talk about costs! If there was a viable option of reducing the cost to the US tax payers to the tune of $30 billion a month would you support it?

If there was a way to increase employment and raise wages for many workers in this nation would you support it?

Both these options pay for the war and then some. They will also reduce the national debt, not require any change in the tax structure as well!

The simple answer is immigration! I will list later the expenditures and costs to tax payers all with links for checking if you desire.

blugillin this should be of interest to you as well. Those dollars are dollars taken directly away from your clients. Those types of cuts would not hurt you and most likely would allow for expanded services and care as well.

But back to the topic at hand. I realize well the pandering that goes on, you have to be naive to not understand this. Which is why I look at the records and positions of the candidates. Obama and Hillary have supported expanded entitlement programs and a host of other new spending ventures. All the while pretending that on day one of their term, the cost of our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan will suddenly disappear! Obama is out pandering about the war! But has stated on many occasions in sit down interviews when pressed that he reserves the right to analyze the situation before acting! Which in political speak means he will do nothing subjectively positive to end the conflict or the costs even going so far to say he would send troops back in if the situation became unstable!

This would cost significantly more in dollars and equipment as well as loss of American lives. It is a similar plan that took place in Korea and in Vietnam where blood was spilled to capture a piece of ground only to walk away from it and have to spill more blood to recapture it again.

Hillary has pandered as well, first stating that we needed to stay the course and fortify her position on voting for the action and additional votes regarding funding. That is until the left extremes rallied behind Obama. So she moved farther left as well.

McCain has been steadfast in his position from day one and it is proving to be the right course of action. We cannot undo the wasted dollars and poor planning, but we can avoid making the same mistakes as we have in the past two extended major conflicts.

Taxes, McCain has been upfront about his opposition to the tax cuts without spending cuts. Gov run programs are the least efficient means of delivering any service there is! His history speaks volumes in this regard, and like it or not is the only one of the candidates that has voted against a spending bill on the principals of waste. Hillary and Obama have voted against spending bills because they did not spend more!!!!!!

Energy! The hot button issue as it is the one we deal with daily at the gas pumps! McCain has opposed corn subsided ethanol but has endorsed the idea of funding research on alternatives such as bio mass and the like. He has opposed the tariffs on imports of gas and ethanol from other countries as well. Knowing that supply and speculation are the driving factors behind the rise in gas and diesel.

Hillary and Obama are simply talking about taxing these companies more and to limit imports even more than they are already! Not sure if some of you rocket scientist have figured out you do not lower prices by cutting down supply and raising production costs!!!!!!!!

Then there is the issue of Supreme Court appointments, now I am not sure if any of you anti McCain people took the time to listen to any of the arguments before the Court before Renquist and O'Connor retired and have listened to them since. The issue of does the argument meet the critera of the Constitution permeates from the new Justices while the old guard of Stevens and Ginsburg attempt to mold the questions around social wants or what they perceive to be social wants.

With both of these possibly retiring in the next four years, it warrants a lot of consideration as to the direction this nation takes over the next 15-20 years regardless of who is Pres or controls the House and Senate!

We are in a ever changing world in regards to science. In the next 10 years the issue of cloning is going to reach the courts, and moral issues as well as legal issues of ownership are going to arise. To me as I have said before people are way to short sighted in looking at this election.

Many get caught up in the media sound bites and political pandering and fail to have any thought of how there vote in Nov will affect them or this nation 10 years later. We have had Pres who worried more about poll numbers and less about the future and failed to follow through or act in a manner that would have added a lot of stability to the world as a whole.

They still assume that we will always be the leader in economic prosperity forgetting that China and India both are rising and will overtake us without long term vision.

We are facing a huge energy shortfall and I have heard only one candidate remotely address this with any practical application and that is McCain, even though I disagree on some of it.

McCain is far from my desire of a candidate, but Hillary and Obama are even farther down the line. I am not a one position voter, but Matt and blugillin, your arguements of why not McCain fall way short in relationship to why Hillary or Obama!


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

R y a n said:


> And here we have George Bush... economic expert... listen closely..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey Ryan...............HELLO.........get a clue .....GWB isn't running for President......you know ......term limits and all :wink:


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