# Corona-virus



## KEN W

How big will this get? Looking bad. My wife and I had looked at booking that Diamond Princess Ship. We have previously been on 2 Princess ships.It started in Singapore and ended in Tokyo. Stopped in Hong Kong. Good thing we went to the Carribean instead. That is a nightmare.

70,000 cases now reported with 2,000 dead. How many products made in China and imported here will have problems if the Chinese close the factories.


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## Plainsman

I read one computer model that estimated a pandemic of 4.4 million infected. My wife and I have until March 20 to make up our mind about Norway in September. Thinking maybe not. Also this spring we thought about Yosemite, but last time we were there it was 80% Oriental. Maybe the airlines will not fly to China until safer.


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## Chuck Smith

It is scary about this virus. I did read that they found a "cure" for it right away. Just depends on how fast it can get manufactured.

The scary part is how "honest" is the info we are getting from China. Is it more or less than the estimates coming out.

Ken...

You did a good choice on where you are going. But Hong Kong, Japan, etc are on my list to visit in my life. I would recommend to buy the appropriate surgical masks to help prevent some of it when you are in Public or pack spaces.

Plainsman.... I would still go to both of those places... but it is me I live risky... LOL


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## Plainsman

Hmmm I see the mortality rate is 2%. The way it's being hyped I thought maybe 80%. So with a mortality rate no more than the common flue why is it being hyped? I see it's knocking the stock market down. Hmmmm so let me get this straight, the best thing Trump has going for him is the stock market. A flue with only a 2% mortality rate that is being hyped by the "media" is driving the stock market down. Hmmm nothing to see here, move along. :bs:


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## Chuck Smith

I was going to address some of this but got busy...

A few things...

1. The stock market seems to change no matter what happens if someone coughs it jumps a few points. But the reason for the fall is that China closed factories, stopped some shipping of goods, and also stopped some productions lines. So the cheap Chinese products coming over could be stalled or even stop coming to the USA so that would make stocks go up or down.

2. The USA found a cure and are trying to find how to get it out to everyone and to manufacture it. He also has a plan in place for quarantine and what not.

3. Trump comes out and says that the USA has a firm grasp on this whole virus thing and has remedies ready to go (see above)&#8230;. yet right after he states that the media comes out with "TRUMP DOESN'T HAVE A CLUE" type stuff. So really if Trump stated that the color of the "chevy" symbol is BLUE... the media would come out and say the opposite.

So I hate to keep harping on how the media is killing this country.... But just look at #3.... It is the sad truth. Again I am all for freedom of the press and freedom of speech. But it is getting ridiculous how all they care about is negative coverage of the President.


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## KEN W

I have seen those statistics.....They are misleading. The only accurate way to figure the mortality rate is to wait until everyone who contracted it has either died or has recovered. That's how the SARS rate was determined a few years ago. We just have to wait. BUT some won't do that and as an example we wind up with the stock market dropping 1000 points yesterday.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> I have seen those statistics.....They are misleading. The only accurate way to figure the mortality rate is to wait until everyone who contracted it has either died or has recovered. That's how the SARS rate was determined a few years ago. We just have to wait. BUT some won't do that and as an example we wind up with the stock market dropping 1000 points yesterday.


I would agree, but are they not making those estimates after people have recovered? I would consider it's entirely incompetent if they don't.


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## KEN W

No......it is based on number of deaths divided by the number infected not cured which is a MUCH smaller number. So is someone incompetent since the rate is MUCH lower than they are really insinuating?

2,700 dead divided by 80,000 infected equals 3%


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## Plainsman

Interesting Ken. Do you know if all countries involved are doing this, or is it only China?


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## KEN W

Don't know. :huh:


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## Canuck

You all should be good to go on your cruises according to Trump. The disease has been blown out of proportion by CNN and the do nothing democrats. It will go away as soon as it warms up. Trump can not spell "Carona" but hey know one knows more about the disease than Donald.


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## Sasha and Abby

Swine flu
Corona virus
Sars
Bird flu

It never ends... hype.


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## Plainsman

When you live upstairs and the hogs and chickens live downstairs it isn't real healthy. There is always some kind of crap coming out of China. Also I hear that level four laboratory in the town where this started lets people sell of the animals they have experimented on for human consumption.


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## Chuck Smith

I just read that the contagious rate of this virus is at a level 2. To compare measles is an 18. So that shows you how "contagious" this is. It is a risk and something to worry about. But it isn't as big of a "scare" as some are making it out to be.

But more and more facts are coming to light about it and it will be interesting if we will ever get the 100% truth on it. China is only telling little bits and pieces.... our media is going over board on it.... etc. I am glad that we right away went into overdrive on being cautious... but now our fears should slow down a little as we know more and more about it.


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## Plainsman

The lady from CDC that put the scare in everyone yesterday is Rosensteins sister. There is no limit to how low the democrats will stoop.


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## speckline

Sasha and Abby said:


> Swine flu
> Corona virus
> Sars
> Bird flu
> 
> It never ends... hype.


Don't forget ebola


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## Canuck

Delete...not worth the time...sorry


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## KEN W

Japan closing all schools for a month. Health officials saying just to be on the safe side should have 2 weeks worth of medicine and food.


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## Plainsman

I think we're comparatively safe here in North Dakota, but it wouldn't hurt to have about 20lb of rice, some oateal, canned veggies etc. 
I do wish they would stop the hype here because I think they are damaging the economy. However, I think that is actually their intent.


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## speckline

Some douche bag from the obongo administration once said "never let a good crisis go to waste".
Te dumbocraps are re-implementing that policy!


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## Plainsman

Speckline. I don't underestimate the disease, but I do think your correct about the democrats taking advantage of a crisis. It is there intent to damage the economy to disadvantage Trump in the election. It is proof they care more about their personal power than the United States. I think they care more about their power than the people of the United States and would not mourn a heavy mortality. They would see a. 100k deaths as a sacrifice for their ideal country where no one knows what gender they are, there is no absolute truth, and morals are a historic relic. I see no social value in Washington's democrats. They would have to stand on their tip toes to kiss a snakes ***. Disease and death may be the Democrat opportunity.


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## Canuck

Not only the "dumbocrats" as you say, but did you see that Medical Doctor Sanjay Gupta try to tell President Trump that the numbers of people with the disease is likely to grow and the infection will likely spread.

The nerve of that man to contradict the President. Trump had to talk over him to shut him up. Sheesh.


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## speckline

If you took the time to take the TDS hat off, you would see that Trump has stated that the gov is on top of it at this time. He also stated that we'll be watching how it progresses and take appropriate measures.
The dumbocraps have been very critical on him (go figure) placing people who were exposed on quarantine as soon as they landed as he was advised to do.
Dumbocraps need to LISTEN to his words to understand what he says, NOT what the fake news' interpretation tells you he said.

Definitely want to be watch this virus and take appropriate measures as individuals, but preaching that the sky is going to fall in premature.


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## Canuck

Okay there is TDS and then there is drinking the cool aid. You told me to listen to Trump's words. I was telling you that I watched Trump *say* that the virus was going to go away and that the flu was more deadly. I watched him tell a Medical Doctor that the doctor was wrong when he stated the actual numbers on flu vs Corona virus. I watched Trump raise his voice and talk over the Doctor in order to shut him up.Not news...actual video footage...actual words coming out of his mouth. That is his way of doing things and you all think that is just great. Have another big chug.


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## Chuck Smith

What is stupid is the Media and many Dem's...

They keep saying that the CDC funding was "cut".... the increase they asked for was cut down. So instead of getting a 10% increase in funding they got a 5%... or something like that. Back in January Trump set up a special corona-virus task force to look into this problem and also solutions. But yet you don't hear anyone talking about this. Again I get it info off of elected officials twitter pages... .and not Democrats. You wont hear this in the media at all. uke:

So like others have stated about the TDS and what not. Or the don't ever waste a crisis for political gain. :eyeroll:

But yes this needs to be taken seriously and it sounds like the USA has taken the appropriate steps on this so far. It is smart to be cautious.

Edit:

What really this whole situation should prove and also help Trumps "USA FIRST" mentality is because most of our medication is produced in China. So now that China is on "lock down" because of this outbreak.... we should move our manufacturing back to the USA and not be so dependent on china.


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## Chuck Smith

To go off on the Left or dems.&#8230;

The ones in the house all week bashing trump. Today.... they didn't even bring anything up to fund or get extra funding for the Corona-virus. So our elected officials are not doing there job. If they wanted more funding... they could have introduced a bill and got it passed in the house. Yet crickets.... oke:

You know what they did bring up for a vote and it passed..... Not allowing flavored tobacco....ie: no more flavored cigars and stuff like that. So that was more pressing than the "outbreak" and "fear" of the corona-virus that you see all over the media.... flavored tobacco ban was more important. :thumb:


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## Plainsman

The democrats by not passing a bill with more money, but do stop flavored tobacco have by their priorities shown us they are simply full of bs about Trump not on the Coronavirus. 
For those that say it's not being politically weaponized: I missed the introduction to this lady so don't know if she is media or elected democrat, but she was calling for the Coronavirus to be called the Trump virus. She was being dead serious. Again, on audio straight from her mouth. What I am wondering is how low do the elected democrats have to go before citizens who voted for them say enough? How bad is the Trump derangement syndrome for the democrat voter?


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## Chuck Smith

> don't know if she is media or elected democrat, but she was calling for the Coronavirus to be called the Trump virus.


If it is the one I am thinkin of. She is a media personality. I think she works for the WA Post or one of the left leaning papers.


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## Plainsman

> I was telling you that I watched Trump say that the virus was going to go away and that the flu was more deadly.


 I have always been envious of people with the ability to read lips. :rollin: However I did hear him say the same thing you seen. I think it is without doubt this problem is going to go away. It may kill a lot of people first, but it is going to go away. Sooner than later I would venture to estimate. 
One has to make sure we don't get careless about avoiding this virus. We all know the media and democrats are hyping it and knowing they are liars could make a high number of people careless. It also creates false pessimism in the market. Granted it is serious, but to blow it out of proportion for political advantage is shameful. Well, for people that have a sense of shame anyway.


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## KEN W

Trump......"At the White House news conference alongside members of the administration's coronavirus task force and health officials, the president insisted that the risk to the American people from the virus "remains very low."


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## speckline

It is low at this time! 
His travel ban and quarantine that he implemented a month ago is to thank for that. Both of which the dumbocraps highly criticized him for implementing! 
He also said that they are taking actions to keep it that way!


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## Plainsman

It is currently low, and if the Democrats don't demand we open our borders there is a good chance it will stay low. The president is simply trying to avoid foolish panic which the Democrats are trying to create. Some democrats are saying maybe they can use this to bring down Trump. I think whentheyeork against America and the health of its citizens to het to Trump its treason. Pelosi and Shumer should be standing on the gallows.


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## Canuck

Today the World Health Organization stated that the Corona Virus was likely to spread world-wide over the next two weeks.

World wide the death rate is over 3%. In some countries (like Iran) the death rate is 7.5%.

Thank goodness the President of the United States of America says not to worry, the virus is a hoax. (Again, I watched the words come out of his mouth).

The USA, the most powerful country in the world, needs a leader who can lead...not just point the finger of blame...soon he will be blaming Pence.

If the virus is a hoax are those people "playing dead"???


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## north1

So we need a leader like you have. A Bernie Sanders 1.0? Sorry, no thanks. Enjoy your carbon tax and warped, weak and ineffectual leader. Our country is finally making headway after the Bush/Obama double disaster and leftists are beating the drums trying to stop it.


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## Canuck




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## Canuck

I am surprised y'all haven't picked up on this coincidence. Of course that would go against the democratic hoax theory.

https://www.loc.gov/item/lcwaN0003010/


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## speckline

Canuck said:


> Today the World Health Organization stated that the Corona Virus was likely to spread world-wide over the next two weeks.
> 
> World wide the death rate is over 3%. In some countries (like Iran) the death rate is 7.5%.
> 
> Thank goodness the President of the United States of America says not to worry, the virus is a hoax. (Again, I watched the words come out of his mouth).
> 
> The USA, the most powerful country in the world, needs a leader who can lead...not just point the finger of blame...soon he will be blaming Pence.
> 
> If the virus is a hoax are those people "playing dead"???


If one would look at a map of the world showing cases of corona virus, one would see the virus was already worldwide!


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## Plainsman

Canuck we don't want a limp wristed girly boy leader like Canada has.

There are doctors speaking up saying the media needs to shut up.


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## Canuck

That is our problem Plainsman...the politicians are either girly boys or fat lying pigs...I am 100% sure that any of you on this forum could do a more respectable job of presiding over the USA than the "man" you have now...any of you.


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## KEN W

Canuck said:


> That is our problem Plainsman...the politicians are either girly boys or fat lying pigs...I am 100% sure that any of you on this forum could do a more respectable job of presiding over the USA than the "man" you have now...any of you.


 :thumb: :thumb:


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## Canuck

Here is girly man Trudeau in a celebrity boxing match for Cancer. He is fighting a young Senator Patrick Brazeau. Brazeau pummels Trudeau in the first round but then Trudeau's obvious boxing training takes over. Eventually the fight is stopped in the third round. The match was televised by SUN, Canada's answer to FOX...I bet he could whip Trump's butt easy. :rollin:


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## speckline

Spaghetti arms!
Should have been a slapping fight, would have been better :rollin:


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## Plainsman

Canuck I agree with you on politicians. My bad attitude about Trudeau comes from my relatives in British Columbia.

I wouldn't k ow much about running a country. I can't remember the rock band leader who had someone tell him that his drummer was a total something or other. The band leader said give me a guy like that who can play any day over a nice guy who cant play. Maybe Trump is a little like that drummer.


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## north1

I also agree with both Canuck and Plainsman on the crop of politicians we seem to grow. I also have friends across the border in Manitoba(only live 20 miles south of them) who vehemently dislike Trudeau and wish them could trade him for Trump.

My wife and I were flying back to Minot last Sunday from visiting relatives and were seated next to a very nice young farmer from Regina. He stated he had lost $100,000 in 2018 and $300,000 in 2019. $60,000 of the 2019 loss was directly related to the carbon tax. He said this next year will most likely destroy his farming career. He stated his friends and relatives in the oil industry are hurting as well because of pipelines not being completed, the attack on fossil fuels, etc. He made it clear we are blessed to have the electoral college, second amendment rights as well as capitalist economy and limited regulation. He stated in western Canada we have no say and there is not a damn thing we can do about it. I felt for him and those like him.


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## Plainsman

north1 speaking of relatives in Canada my last two years have been interesting. When my grandfathers family dispersed out of Minnesota in about the late 1860s people lost track of one another. I don't know the year exactly, but the homestead act b0rought my grandparents to North Dakota. 
Anyway some went to Canada and a cousin 83 years old retired a few years ago and started searching out relstives. When he called me I had no idea I had relatives still in British Columbia. He laughed and said oh yes I had cousins farming around Kennedy. Saskatchewan, and some owned the largest ranches in Alberta. During our conversation I told him the wife and I planned on a fishing trip to Alaska. He asked if I knew my cousin who was a retired pastor in Achorage. I said I didn't know he existed. He said yup, and his boys had a little fishing boat and may take me out. Two weeks later the cousin from Anchorage calls. The little fishing boat is 140 feet.
So talking to relative they tell me how life in Canada has gone down hill with the liberal east in charge. They tell me their wildlife biologists run on emotions more than education, and definitely not brains. They say the only people that like their current Gov are the live in their mother's basement parasites. They all wish they had a second ammendment.


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## Canuck

Plainsman I have to run so have no time to respond except to say this about scientists, such as biologists in Canada...it was the previous Conservative government that killed science in Canada...everything from water to wildlife has been devastated...Trudeau is doing what he can to repair the regulatory environment...if it makes you feel any better I did not vote for Trudeau but I hated Harper and his Trump-like dealings with people. He killed my Fisheries job just as I retired.


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## north1

My wife and her family were made aware of a similar scenario a few years back. Virtually every Canadian I have talked to west of Winnipeg has echoed what you stated. It's like the democrats are directly plugged into the eastern Canada political elite for their platform. I am not completely enamored with Trump the person but agree with virtually every policy he has brought forth. Including his stance and handling of the coronavirus outbreak. Takes a lot of effort to sift through the media dung to verify what is going on. Like him stating the democrat response to his position on the coronavirus was a hoax not the disease itself.


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## Plainsman

I don't remember the rock band, but I do remember a statement by one leader of a band years ago. Maybe I already posted this, but I think that was a different site. Anyway people were complaining about what a jerk his drummer was. He said I would rather have a jerk that can play than a nice guy who can't. Trump knows how to play. I don't have a clue about his personality, but then neither does anyone else. They whine because he makes fun of their heroes. If that's it then I'm a jerk too. :thumb: Leaving myself open for the real jerks on that one. :rollin:


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## Canuck

And interestingly I know Americans who tell people they are Canadian when they travel because they are embarrassed to have a leader who is a chronic liar, jerk and a few other less nice names.


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## Chuck Smith

This virus issue.

Yes Trump has done all he can so far on it. The Travel Ban, The quarenteen of pople, etc. They are trying to fast track vaccines and testing.

But I am sure with the two deaths reported over the weekend the media will have a field day and say that Trump isn't doing enough.

This is something we keep on top of but it isn't as bad as people think it is. It is like the FLU... it kills people with weak immune systems and the elderly or very young. The rest of the people will just feel sick or nothing at all. It could become worse than we know... but as of now this is what is being reported.

But the bigger issue is that China has shut down. So our dependence on China for many things needs to stop. We need to be more spread out or everything back into the USA. Which is Trumps plan on being more "USA First".... which a leader of any country should think this way. The HOME country First mentality. :bop:


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## Plainsman

> Thank goodness the President of the United States of America says not to worry, the virus is a hoax. (Again, I watched the words come out of his mouth).


No you didn't watch those words come out of his mouth because he never said the virus was a hoax. You have to much faith in the fake news you watch Canuck. So much faith that you repeat things that are not true. At least I assume that because otherwise it would be you full of bs.


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## Chuck Smith

Now I haven't heard much about the Deaths of the people out in Washington. I haven't heard about ages or general health before they passed away. Granted it isn't a good situation. But if they were people who already had a weak immune system or what. Also I haven't heard where they were located...ie: Nursing home or something along that lines or was it people who were in good health.

Again it isn't good news when people die. But it does tell a different story when it is someone who is older and not in good health or has "failing" health compared to a 22 year old Olympic athlete who is of outstanding health.

Because there is a big difference.


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## Chuck Smith

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-cor ... id=DELLDHP

4 of the 6 deaths all linked to a care facility. So not to down play this at all.... but it is like if the FLU went into that facility. Which happens more than people think.

Two of the people had other underlying health issues.

Again I am not trying to down play this at all. But just getting facts out to people.


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## Plainsman

I can't find it now, but a couple hours ago I read the name of the facility. I think five were all from the same place. You know that if they were in a care facility none of them were in good shape.


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## dakotashooter2

> But the bigger issue is that China has shut down. So our dependence on China for many things needs to stop. We need to be more spread out or everything back into the USA. Which is Trumps plan on being more "USA First".... which a leader of any country should think this way. The HOME country First mentality. :bop:


Hopefully this event may get people to realize how dependent we have become on other countries and understand this.

Thousands of people in this country dies every year from the flu (which is why we have flu shots) but we never hear about them. This is a more potent version but for relatively healthy people the risk of death still appears to be relatively low.


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## Chuck Smith

I just heard/read Trump blamed OBAMA or OBAMA-era thing for the virus. Well I read it on MSN... so don't know if Trump actually "Blamed" him or said something different.

But I dug into it a little. don't know exactly what it amounts too. But here it is.

Obama or under his administration he made it that the FDA had jurisdiction over all testing or new testing. (again don't know if this is good or bad.)

Trump eliminated that the FDA had the total jurisdiction. That is all Trump did. So you cant "blame" Obama for this outbreak or virus. So if Trump Blamed him... it isn't correct. He can come out and say... I am trying to help by undoing an Obama-era rule.... which is (then explain it). He shouldn't put blame but show how he is trying to help. Which could be what he did and MSN took it as blaming... I don't know but don't trust them to report the whole TRUTH. oke:

So again... I don't know if this is good or bad. But it could make it one less "hurdle" that is needed in getting testing to the people so they can find things out. Because I do know that the FDA does have more red tape you need to go thru to get things to market. I know I have talked about this before....but the old number was something like 100 million dollars and 10 years it takes to get a drug from day 1 (in the lab) then to the people. Hence why some drugs cost an arm and a leg.... and why there are 10 year holds on generics (FDA allows this hold so others can recoup the money spent)&#8230;. etc. So the FDA red tape costs big Pharma money and time.

I am not trying to stick up for Pharma... .but people need to know the facts on why things cost so much. Lots of it has to do with the procedure or process that involves the government. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Remember the "media" blaming Trump for CUTTING funding....

Well look at this little chart. It shows what funding has been since the end of the fiscal year in 2015 to now the end of the fiscal year in 2019....

HMMMMMM.... and to say the media doesn't lie?

Also been reading about how even more funding is trying to pass the house but some Dem's are putting in poison pills so they know it will either get shot down in the Senate or not pass the house by republican votes because of the poison pills. They are playing politics with this whole thing. Also that the House hasn't purposed a budget to combat the one Trump purposed.... so again they are doing nothing.

Things getting attached... FISA renewal, partisan drug measures, etc.

BTW... back in 2009 a clean funding bill was passed to thwart the swine flu.... Just saying.... So who is playing politics???? :bop: :bop: :bop:

I know people will point to the Senate... and I agree they need to not sit on bills... either vote them as a NO and get them off the plate... or send them back to the house with revamps. Just don't sit on them. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

> "The Obama administration made a decision on testing that turned out to be very detrimental to what we're doing, and we undid that decision a few days ago so that the testing can take place at a much more accurate and rapid fashion," Mr. Trump said during a White House meeting with airline executives.
> 
> "That was a decision we disagreed with," he added. "I don't think we would have made it, but for some reason it was made."
> 
> He appeared to be referring to a regulation that limited the ability of laboratories run by states, universities and private companies to conduct medical screenings not approved by the Food and Drug Administration. On Saturday, the F.D.A. commissioner, Stephen M. Hahn, allowed those labs to use coronavirus tests they had developed independently, after submitting evidence that the tests work.
> 
> The government has stumbled several times in trying to keep up with the demand for coronavirus tests. Local health agencies and doctors have complained that a lack of tests have hindered their abilities to identify patients.
> 
> The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention at first maintained tight control on test production, and some of the early tests it sent to state health departments were defective.
> 
> The C.D.C. kept equally tight restrictions on who could be tested, but those have been eased significantly.


A little more info on the "blame Obama" thing trump is doing. Lets see how the media covers this. I can bet Fox will be on attack for sure.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/cor ... id=DELLDHP


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## Chuck Smith

I found this funny


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## Canuck

Official USA Numbers:

As of March 05, 2020 at 14:59 GMT, there have been 162 confirmed cases and 11 deaths due to coronavirus COVID-19 in the United States.

That is a 6.8% death rate. The USA rate closely matches the 7% death rate reported by Iran,

Trump says the death rate numbers are wrong and the death rate is only "one to two percent". Do you want a video link to that comment? He called your man Hannity an hour ago.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2020/3 ... ke-numbers


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## dakotashooter2

Sadly for you when it really starts to spread in Canada it will be 3-4 weeks before you can get an appointment for treatment. Too little to late.

As a side note: I have been following what is going on in Washington state and would be curios to know what the death toll for other strains of flu has been in the same time period.


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## Canuck

The sad part is that Trump's base believe every word he says.
Here in Canada we takes things a little more seriously and tend to trust our Scientists and Doctors.
Trump is telling sick people to just go to work. That is dangerous stuff coming from your leader.
Just as sad is the misinformation you apparently have regarding Canada's health care system.
That's okay, if you guys got something as sweet as we have it would all get screwed up.
Trump passed a law saying it's okay for all y'all to come buy our cheaper medications...I think we should put a stop to that.


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## Chuck Smith

> Official USA Numbers:
> 
> As of March 05, 2020 at 14:59 GMT, there have been 162 confirmed cases and 11 deaths due to coronavirus COVID-19 in the United States.
> 
> That is a 6.8% death rate. The USA rate closely matches the 7% death rate reported by Iran,
> 
> Trump says the death rate numbers are wrong and the death rate is only "one to two percent". Do you want a video link to that comment? He called your man Hannity an hour ago.


What Trump was referring too was the people who are actually untested/undetected but have the virus... it is an X factor. Because those people could be sitting at home resting, drinking fluids, not spreading anything, and getting healthy... JUST LIKE WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THE FLU. Which is the X factor. Like he stated he has a "hunch" the death rate is actually lower. Because many people don't know if they have it or not since it is just like if you have the FLU.

I knew someone would run with this. Just like the media is right now. But they are taking a snippet of what he said and running with it. Not taking in the full convo/speech.

Trump is doing what a leader should.... not try to stir up panic. Remain calm and try to figure out solutions. The House finally did a good thing and sent 8 billion to the Senate to approve for funding to fight this. Trump did a good thing possibly by allowing more agencies, instead of one the FDA, to control testing. The plan so far is good. It is just a matter if/when/etc this thing will get worse or not.


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## dakotashooter2

To put things in perspective, several sources indicate that around 80,000 people in the US died from the flu or related complications in 2019 (Second highest year was 56,000). That's around 1,500 a week on average, though 1000 is probably closer to the average year. As one can see the coronavirus is nowhere near that YET, but neither are cases of the virus. Washington State has had 74 confirmed flu deaths in 2020 and 51 outbreaks in long term care facilities in the 8 weeks prior to the coronavirus. A little over 9 deaths per week. Coronavirus has killed 6 in about a 2 week period. Granted the number of infections is still low but while it is more dangerous than the H1V1 strain it doesn't appear to be as dangerous as the media makes it out to be.


> " A pandemic is the worldwide spread of a new disease. An influenza pandemic occurs when a new influenza virus emerges and spreads around the world, and most people do not have immunity


. The definition of a pandemic DOES NOT dictate that it be an unusually dangerous disease, only that it is new and spreading world wide. I think the general interpretation the public has is that a pandemic is the spread of a highly dangerous disease and it seems the media tries to reinforce that line of thought. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take precautions to prevent the spread but we also shouldn't go into panic mode. So far about 80 % of those who have died in China were over 60 and had pre-existing health issues which means as common with flu viruses the elderly are most succeptable.


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## north1

We won't confirm the death rate for at least a year. New mutation. Just beginning to hone the tests to the two variants. Most probably hundreds or thousands walking around who have it or recovered but not been tested. Any scientist worth their salt would not confirm a true death rate at this early juncture. Is 7% possible, sure. But definitely not verifiable.


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## Canuck

I am sorry that I said...

"Trump passed a law saying it's okay for all y'all to come buy our cheaper medications...I think we should put a stop to that."

That is said in haste and is not right.

What I meant to say is... "we should raise our prices a little so that they are still way cheaper than the States and then use those profits from our friends coming up in droves to buy cheap medication to help pay for our health care costs".

Like a tariff. :rollin:


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## north1

You are 100% spot on with respect to big pharma taking us citizens to the cleaner. They have been padding the pockets of Republican and Democrat representatives for years. Perhaps Trumps circumventing of the swamp creatures will result in more competition and eventually lower prices?


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## Chuck Smith

North1....

Like I mentioned it is all the red tape and regulations

Again I am not trying to stick up for big Pharma at all. But it costs about a 100,000,000 or more to bring a drug to market. Then that company has 10 years to try and get its money back... and pay for all of its employees and what not. SO to start off 100,000,000 in the hole then try to manufacture and move forward. It is all the red tape that the government has.... or the controls on the testing and what not.

Again I am glad we have the testing rules in place and other stuff. But like I have mentioned 100 times over and over. We need to see WHY COSTS are high for doing medical and medicine. Then go from there. You think $15 minimum wages will help lower the costs of drugs..... oke:

But hopefully we will get leaders in congress who don't want to line pockets of themselves and buddies... but actually work for the people. :bop:


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## north1

Do you know why Canada and Mexico are then able to offer the same pharmaceuticals so much cheaper? I have a friend who gets his very basic insulin in Canada for A LOT cheaper than U.S. I don't disagree with your premise just can't figure out why new drugs and basic pharma is so much cheaper in Canada and Mexico.


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## Canuck

One way to achieve lower prices is single source buying power (or that so called socialism you fear so much).
Drug companies selling here have accepted lower years of patent protections for the same reason.
Be afraid, be very afraid.

P.s. As a cancer survivor I have great respect for our medical system, even in our rural area and how well it treated me. At the end of an emergency colostomy, six months of chemo and radiation, surgery to remove the cancerous tumor, more chemo therapy, and a final surgery to reverse the colostomy. When I left the hospital I got my complete file that itemized every single thing done, every drug used, etc. etc. I took the thick pack of paper and said that if I was in the States this would be a bill for $250,000. More like $400,000 said the hospital administrator. I paid nothing, other than those stupid taxes as you call them. And further I was diagnosed and less than 1 week later I was in the hospital starting the process. And one last hing...go search countries with the best health care. Canada is not at the top of the list but we be way ahead of the USA.


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## speckline

Glad to hear you were taken care of so well!! :beer:


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## north1

Strange I was diagnosed with colon cancer in October of 2009. I was in surgery two days after my colonoscopy. Had colon resected but developed sepsis, had drain installed and had to wait 6 weeks before I started chemo treatments. Made it through them and now with severally modified diet and regular colonoscopies I have been cancer free. I too paid very little out of pocket and feel blessed to have received the top notch medical care I received. Of course I had medical insurance and I paid for it myself but all in all I have absolutely nothing to complain about. I extend a heartfelt congratulations to you as a fellow colon cancer survivor. I know the path you have trod and wish you nothing but the best. May continued good health and prosperity follow you all the days of your life.


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## Canuck

Speck and north,
Thank you both for your kind words. North, thanks for knowing what I (we) went through. When I was undergoing treatment there were 6 other guys going through colon or esophageal cancer treatment staying at the house (like a Ronald MacDonald House) where we stayed. Only two of the seven survived so I feel blessed.
I try not to get so wound up about Trump but I see him as a very divisive sort and kind of buffoon like. 
Thanks again for the good thoughts.


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## Plainsman

Best wishes for your future health from me also Canuck.



> I try not to get so wound up about Trump but I see him as a very divisive


 To me that's a good point. It's going to take division to drain the swamp. just getting along corrupts everyone because compromise to often leads to the lowest common denominator. I often have to remind fellow, but whiny assed Christians that Jesus said he didn't come to unite, but to divide. To do otherwise would have been compromise with the devil.

I am happy your health care system took care of you Canuck, but often when things get very serious Canadians with enough money rush to the states rather than die in Canada.



> Do you know why Canada and Mexico are then able to offer the same pharmaceuticals so much cheaper? I have a friend who gets his very basic insulin in Canada for A LOT cheaper than U.S. I don't disagree with your premise just can't figure out why new drugs and basic pharma is so much cheaper in Canada and Mexico.


 north1 I think it's because China has no respect for our patent system. Most of our drugs are made in China so they simply sell to everywhere on earth cheaper than they do in the United States where because of the patent protection prices are higher. China gets rich, and we in affect subsidize every country in the world. It's time to bring drug production home and don't let China even sniff our intellectual property.


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## Chuck Smith

Congrats to you two and your battle that you have won or are still winning. :beer: :thumb:



> Do you know why Canada and Mexico are then able to offer the same pharmaceuticals so much cheaper?


This is the sad fact on why they can offer cheaper medicine....REGULATION

They don't have the red tape. The companies don't have the "protection" either that is offered in our patent laws in those countries.

What I mean is if a company in the USA is the "second" one to come up with a drug they have two options.... Wait 10 years before you can bring it to market in the USA OR take it another country. They take it to another country..... then when the 10 year "waiting" period is up they bring it to the USA as a "generic".

Look at it this way... you take company A, company B, Company C, and Company D. They each started to develop a drug to help with blood pressure. It takes 10 years and 100,000,000 to bring that drug to market.... Now Company A beat Company B, C, and D by one week to get it patented and paper work done to start selling the drug. COMPANY B, C, D have TO WAIT 10 YEARS to sell that drug in the USA.... but can go else where to sell it. So they go else where to sell. So now in Mex and Can... you have Company A, B, C, D all selling the same type of medicine that cures the same thing.

Then as a side to the above.... you have companies from other countries who didn't have to wait 10 years and spend 100,000,000 to develop those drugs selling in Mex and Can as well.

Like I have stated over and over and over...&#8230; The first step in helping with the whole medical skyrocketing costs we need to see WHY are the costs so expensive. This boils down to..... costs of drugs, costs of drug development, costs of medical devices, costs of surgical tools, costs of testing, costs hospitals have, costs of wages from the janitor to the specialized surgeon, the cost of contractors that hospitals hire to change a light fixture, etc. All of this goes into what a person pays for premium for Health insurance...or what the country would get TAXED on for medicare for all.

Look now.... everything in a hospital is disposable..... they don't reuse much. Which is good because it prevents contamination in a sterile environment..... but does it actually save money??? It might save in possible litigation....but does it in the supply chain??? I don't know the answer but it is something that needs to be looked at.

Look at giving blood.... the iodine swab is individually packaged. IS that cheaper than having a bucket of swabs and a jug of iodine you can dip the swab in? I don't know... but I hope people see what I am getting at in respect to the disposable comments.

Also another thing to "think about"...&#8230;. to pay for a "medicare" for all..... tax base would have to increase the amount of total insurance premiums paid in. Example I pay in $6000 for a single person age 42 in for insurance.....so in theory my taxes would go up that amount.....or more. Because a family of 4 who pays in $15000.... that would have to spread out to every tax paying adult or person.

So just having a "medicare" for all and TAX THE RICH couldn't work. They would need to tax everyone some how.... either thru sales tax, gas tax, income taxes, etc. Then I wont even bring up the trickle down issues you would have with increase costs of goods, services, etc.... to help offset the increases business's would face.


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## Chuck Smith

> It's time to bring drug production home and don't let China even sniff our intellectual property.


This is a big issue not only with Drugs manufacturing.... but with everything.

Since this is a hunting forum.... Look at DPMS, Nikon, Remington, etc.... all of those companies are going under or cutting product lines directly because of China.

To put it in a nut shell....

Nikon sends over to china to have a spotting scope made/assembled. China runs it thru the factory on Nikons specs and what not. They get done running Nikons scope and ship them off. A German Company XYZ comes in and says... can you run me a spotting scope as well.... China says... Sure we are already set up for it. They run Company's XYZ a scope on Nikons specs and charges less because they didn't pay for the set up and what not. Then after Company XYZ gets done running the scopes... Company ABC from the UK comes in and says... can you run another scope... China says... SURE... we are still set up from the previous two companies and maybe even a cheaper rate. THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING.... :bop:

That is why one of the huge sticklers you will keep hearing about with Trump and his trade talks with China is the "intellectual" property rights/patents. China has to allow the same protections as the USA and what not. :bop:


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## north1

Okay, got it. I agree, it seems to me everyone is ignoring the $100,000,000 cost to bring drugs "on-line" in the USA. Standardize regulations between the USA, Canada and Mexico. My contention is that it hasn't been done because the powers that be in government AND the pharmaceutical industry don't want it done. Cash cow for both and the US citizen is left holding the bag. So to speak.


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## Chuck Smith

So I am sure many of you know that I whole heartedly believe the media is a major problem with much of what is going on in this world.... well the USA...

Here is something that I just read...



> Dr. Drew on the coronavirus: "Businesses are getting destroyed and people's lives are being upended not by the virus, but by the panic. The panic must stop. And the press, they really somehow need to be held accountable because they are hurting people"


I was out and about this weekend and talked with many people who work at MAYO clinic. Many travel for work and meet many people and Doctors. Most of them say don't believe the hype by the media. They say to take the virus seriously but it isn't as bad as they are trying to make it out to be. They said the numbers are not even close the flu strain that hits every year.

So again.... who is causing the panic and why??? :bop:

I also talked with a friend of mine who's cousin is located over in China. I asked him what he thought about this whole corona-virus issue. He explained it as right away there was the huge worry/panic. But now it seems everything is contained and they are not as worried about it. So things are going forward as normal. He stated that where he worked they didn't have to shut anything down and the daily flow was never interrupted.


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## north1

H1N1 was far more lethal in 2009 and guess who whiffed on the response? Didn't hear hardly a word about it. Business as usual. Wonder why? Hint:different administration.


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## Canuck

"Didn't hear hardly a word about it"

That is Trump's problem. He would have been better off to just keep his mouth shut. But no. His uncle was a scientist and that is why Trump knows so much about everything. That is why he has a knack for this stuff. Telling people he wants them to go on cruises. Just not to certain countries. And hey he did not want that ship to dock and off load Americans and unfairly bump up his precious numbers. Heaven forbid...Don't need no stinking scientists...


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## Plainsman

I am left scratching my head how a non citizen contracts mentally lethal Trump Derangment Syndrome. 
The left whined when Trump shut off travel from spme countries, but in retrospect we can all see it was a good thing
Evidently we have a generation that doesn't understand that one aspect of a good leader is keeping people from panic. Panic can destroy an economy. Sadly our liberals would accept this if it gave them a better shot in the next election. Other countries would like to see s panic also. Not our allies because they spend practically nothing on defences relying instead on us. Trump is trying to calm people while at the same time working hard behind the scene to contain the disease. Now if we could contain twisted liberal hate.

Back to drugs and health care for a moment. Perhaps I'll have to plead ignorance, but I am not aware of the Canadian health care system developing a single drug. If I am not mistaken the United Ststes developed 90% of the world's drugs. Then U S pharma provides China the ability to make our drugs. Where things get unfair is we in the U S are still bound by patent laws while China sells cheap to other countries. I think we should stop making our drugs in China. Make them here in the U S and charge the high prices to other countries. Don't sell any to countries that threaten us, like China, Russia, North Korea, Iran etc.


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## north1

He doesn't keep his mouth shut about anything. That's his MO and nothing will change it. It is how he is wired. Everyone has their own personality and that's part of his. If he had kept his mouth shut you know darn well he would have been accused of a coverup. Trying to hide the truth about this deadly society crippling virus and because of that Trump caused thousands of deaths. But he is not responsible for creating the virus(China and their food policies are) and he is not responsible for creating panic. He is listening to scientists. Not trying to muzzle them like was reported. Scientists have admitted as much right in front of the live news cameras. Hard to misreport that. News flash. People don't like him. People didn't like our previous president and all of those that preceded him. But for some strange reason people can't deal with not liking or agreeing with our current president. I don't get it. Never agreed with Obama or his policies once he took office but I dealt with it and life moved on. It's very perplexing to me.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> Back to drugs and health care for a moment. Perhaps I'll have to plead ignorance, but I am not aware of the Canadian health care system developing a single drug. If I am not mistaken the United Ststes developed 90% of the world's drugs. Then U S pharma provides China the ability to make our drugs. Where things get unfair is we in the U S are still bound by patent laws while China sells cheap to other countries. I think we should stop making our drugs in China. Make them here in the U S and charge the high prices to other countries. Don't sell any to countries that threaten us, like China, Russia, North Korea, Iran etc.


 :thumb: :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

> Back to drugs and health care for a moment. Perhaps I'll have to plead ignorance, but I am not aware of the Canadian health care system developing a single drug. If I am not mistaken the United Ststes developed 90% of the world's drugs. Then U S pharma provides China the ability to make our drugs. Where things get unfair is we in the U S are still bound by patent laws while China sells cheap to other countries. I think we should stop making our drugs in China. Make them here in the U S and charge the high prices to other countries. Don't sell any to countries that threaten us, like China, Russia, North Korea, Iran etc.


Some Republican house members are writing legislation about this as we speak.... it will be interesting if it will pass. oke:

But this is also some of the sticking points in Trumps trade deal with China. Protecting our "intellectual" property/patents. It will be interesting what is the next phases of the trade deal. Or if Trump isn't re-elected what will China even do with trade.



> He is listening to scientists. Not trying to muzzle them like was reported. Scientists have admitted as much right in front of the live news cameras. Hard to misreport that.


Isn't it funny how things can still get misreported when they are right on camera.... and people tell me the media isn't a big problem in this country. That they are not the ones stirring up hate and division.... uke:


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## Canuck

You can't even think of one drug developed by Canadians? Really?...here is an important one...Insulin...quite a few American suffer from this disease...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... e35537847/


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## Plainsman

Also keep in mind because a scientist said it doesn't mean Trump said it. The scientists in federal agencies work for the people. They get their directions from what we the people tell our representatives and our president. Sometimes scientists think they are so important they are above that chain of command. When they don't get the money they want they try an end run and make up crap to get their way. Just like people in the private sector. This is why we see scientists keep talking about global warming. They do it because the liberals have bought into it and in return it brings money to the scientists. If you want to pay me millions I'll study the effect of sorting fly crap from pepper.


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> You can't even think of one drug developed by Canadians? Really?...here is an important one...Insulin...quite a few American suffer from this disease...
> 
> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/na ... e35537847/


Like I said I'll have to plead ignorance. Currently how many scientist in Canada are working on a vaccine for Corona? Perhaps they are I'm asking, but suspect very few. In this current century how many drugs has the Canadian health care system developed? Most of the drugs Canadians take were developed in the United States by a capitalist health care system. You simply through China found a way not to pay your fair share just like you can spend money elsewhere because you don't need to spend on defense. Your free because we spend trillions protecting North America and much of the rest of the world including all of Europe, with it's token armies. People complain about the United States, but dogs are not parasites of wood ticks.

Canadian health care: my 83 year old cousin in British Columbia is of no value to a socialist system so his current health care plan is be comfortable while he dies. When your young and healthy the best health care system is the cheapest. Not so much when you hit 60 years old. Communism has killed millions of people, and socialism is it's younger sister. People have to be away from mother for a few years to understand there is no free lunch, someone is paying for it. The question is are you happy as a parasite?


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## Canuck

north1 said:


> News flash. People don't like him. People didn't like our previous president and all of those that preceded him. But for some strange reason people can't deal with not liking or agreeing with our current president. I don't get it. Never agreed with Obama or his policies once he took office but I dealt with it and life moved on. It's very perplexing to me.


From here it appeared that Obama was a tactful statesman and an orator, while Trump appears to be a buffoon. Very difficult to appreciate that man. He is a self-centered egotist. I bet if he was just your neighbor you wouldn't be so enthralled with him.


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## Canuck

Of course Canada is working on a vaccine!!!

https://www.freshdaily.ca/news/2020/01/ ... ab-canada/

Our leadership is just a little more realistic about how quickly it can be safely done.


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> north1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> News flash. People don't like him. People didn't like our previous president and all of those that preceded him. But for some strange reason people can't deal with not liking or agreeing with our current president. I don't get it. Never agreed with Obama or his policies once he took office but I dealt with it and life moved on. It's very perplexing to me.
> 
> 
> 
> From here it appeared that Obama was a tactful statesman and an orator, while Trump appears to be a buffoon. Very difficult to appreciate that man. He is a self-centered egotist. I bet if he was just your neighbor you wouldn't be so enthralled with him.
Click to expand...

Obama wasn't tactful he simply rolled over like a submissive dog. The first thing he did was go on an apology tour and bow to a dictator. He was a socialist who didn't really like this country. That's why he said he was going to fundamentally change this country. You don't fundamentally change thing you like. 
As far as what Trump would be like to know personally the presidency of the United States should not be a popularity contest. If your going to have heart surgery do you want a doctor that's a nice guy, but finished last in his class, or would your rather a total jerk who was first in his class opening your chest and handling your heart????

Like nearly every country in the world I will bet they are working with our Center for Disease Control. For most working on the Corona virus cure means they are in touch with our CDC.



Canuck said:



> Of course Canada is working on a vaccine!!!
> 
> https://www.freshdaily.ca/news/2020/01/ ... ab-canada/
> 
> Our leadership is just a little more realistic about how quickly it can be safely done.


Safely done??? Does that mean slower or faster or what? Are you saying our scientists are not working on a vaccine in an unsafe manner? Are you saying Trudeau is doing the work? Our president doesn't make vaccine our scientists do. I think they will do that in a safe manner. Also since our president cares about our people he has worked with the insurance companies and the news just came out that anything that works to stop the Corona virus will be covered by our insurance with no co-pay.


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## Canuck

I was making an example of Trump telling the public a vaccine was close, really close, while the Doctor speaking after him had to says sorry but a vaccine is a year and a half away.

Tired of fact checking his lies yet? Why does he lie so much? 
To make himself look good? To calm the markets?
IT'S NOT WORKING

https://q13fox.com/2020/03/02/task-forc ... ne-timing/
https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/tr ... e-response
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/0 ... ric-121796
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/politics ... index.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/25/white-h ... virus.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... s-vaccine/


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## Plainsman

Sorry Fact Check and Snoops are worthless. After I get lied to once they no longer have credability for me.

Do we know if Trump was speaking about the United States or globally. Israel claims to be only weeks away from a vaccine. That leaves me wondering if Iran will ask for their help or let their people die. The next few months will tell us a lot about people. 
For you Canuke I would recommend one or two more news outlets. Too often I hear people say "I refuse to watch FOX news". I watch it all even at times crazy Maddow. If you refuse to watch something you are admitting to being one of the under informed.

For example on another outdoor site a person said he watched Trump call Corona a hoax. He either has to much faith in his news outlet or he outright lied being driven beyond sense by Trump Derangement Syndrom because Trump never said that.

Canuck did you read any of the articles you posted? I read the first couple of paragraphs of the first one.



> "I don't know what the time will be. I've heard very quick numbers, that of months. And I've heard pretty much a year would be an outside number


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## speckline

Just watched another Coronavirus Task Force briefing for VP Pence. Yet again, he had seven scientists and/or Doctors who are top experts in their field provide straight from their mouth update and recommendations.
Transparency.
Trump does listen to scientists!
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html


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## Canuck

Sorry Plainsman, You got me. I did not read the first two articles. Actually I posted those last but put them at the top of the list because they were FOX News and I knew you would kill me for just having CNN< Washington Post, etc. LOL. I thought you guys loved FOX News. What up?

I'll go read the FOX posts....


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## Plainsman

FOX news slips a little further left each year. I don't know what happened to Drudge. but he has gone off the tracks.

Have you noticed the comments of the California governor? California produces the most liberal politicians and their governor praised Trumps actions with the Corona virus.

Now liberals are saying we are all racist for calling the Corona vir uh s the Wuhan virus. Odd we called the west Nile virus th as t because it originated in the west Nile area. The left has lost its mind.

Happy you include FOX news as one of your news sources. I often tell people you can watch what you like. but you have to also watch some you don't like or you cant tell people your well informed.


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## north1

Had television on in my shop and was under a tractor changing oil and heard a doctor state that Covid 19 virus was a perfectly engineered machine for killing the elderly. By the time I maneuvered my decrepit body out to find out his name the interview was over. I believe he was an epidemiologist and it struck me as strange a scientist would make this ascertain. Although he didn't state it outright he seemed to insinuate China purposely let it loose. Not a tinfoil hat type but found it interesting.


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## KEN W

Saw that companies are working on a vaccine. They said it isn't a lot different than Influenza. They are hoping to have it by late summer. Testing on white mice. Health care workers would be first to get it. They are also hoping that like the flu.....it will disappear when summer gets here. Then next fall we can all get it like the flu shot.


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## Plainsman

north1 the thoughts running through the mind of some of the younger people is scary. I watched an interview of a young college woman who was argueing for abortion. She was all for partial birth abortion and not life supporting a child after birth. or even euthanizing. When asked at what limit she would restrict euthanizing I was expecting her to say hours. She said up to the age of awareness. When asked what age that was she said she wasn't sure, but thought about five years old. Women standing around were shaking their head in agreement.

I brought the above up to give a direction to some people's thought process. Likewise I was working out of state with a group of about six college people, both Male and female. We were staying in a dorm type situation. Also. this was back when Bush jr was running for president the first time and he was talking about tax cuts on TV. They thought tax cuts were terrible. When I mentioned what I paid in taxes they thought it was terrible that I made more than them. Even though they were still in college while I had 25 years experience and was there to do what they could not do they thought we should make the same. Anyway to the point about elderly. I went to bed and those walls were thin. The kids got on the subject of social security. They thought Medicare was ok, but when people retire and their savings are gone they should be euthanized so they would not be a burden. I thought to myself do they ever consider themselves as a burden since they were still mostly supported by their parents?

China has no respect for human life. I would not be surprised at all if after weaponizing a virus they would test it on their own people. or infect the world while denying and pointing to the fact they contracted it first. Bring our manufacturing home. China is no one's friend, not even fellow communist Russia. They would kill us first and Russia next. If Russia don't know this they are stupid.


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## KEN W

Wow......Trump suspends all travel From Europe.

NBA cancels the rest of the season.

There won't be a baseball season.

We will be completely isolated until this thing is over.


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## speckline

Makes one wonder doesn't it? :eyeroll:


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## Canuck

Today's huge decline in the market futures started just as Trump was making his speech last night. I watched it on your C-Span. During a break and at the end the mike was still on and Trump could be heard saying stupid stuff and swearing like a sailor. The future market really tailed off when Homeland Security and the White House had to right away start clarifying and changing Trumps comments about the foreign virus, travel and FREIGHT restrictions from Europe. Yesterday the USA officially only carried out 8 Corona tests.
Therein lies the biggest problem. Total denial and complete unpreparedness.


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## speckline

Link?? 
Only 8 tests? First we've heard that.....


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## Canuck

From the CDC website scroll down to March 10
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... in-us.html


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## huntin1

Canuck said:


> Today's huge decline in the market futures started just as Trump was making his speech last night. I watched it on your C-Span. During a break and at the end the mike was still on and Trump could be heard saying stupid stuff and swearing like a sailor. The future market really tailed off when Homeland Security and the White House had to right away start clarifying and changing Trumps comments about the foreign virus, travel and FREIGHT restrictions from Europe. Yesterday the USA officially only carried out 8 Corona tests.
> Therein lies the biggest problem. Total denial and complete unpreparedness.


Seriously?

From your link the US has administered 11,079 tests in less than 2 months and that in your opinion is complete unpreparedness simply because only 8 were done on one specific day? TDS indeed. If Barrack O'moron were still in office you would be praising him for stellar performance. :eyeroll:

In other news, Mayo Clinic has instituted drive-thru Covid-19 testing. How's that for unpreparedness?

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... sting.html


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## southdakbearfan

Italy's health system was at the breaking point with them being overwhelmed with patients. China was the same way but yet we denied it was going to get bad.

This should have been done a month ago but we were too worried about big business and the market. Well the market will tank worse if we end up with an overwhelmed hospital system.

I am definitely glad I don't live in a huge city where everyone is right on top of one another.

I blame both congress and the president for being a bunch of pandering morons.

To those stating that this is all nothing, nba, mlb, nhl, ncaa, cruise ship companies actions all show that to be a false narrative.


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## KEN W

Wow.....almost everything that has a gathering of people is shutting down. Athletic contests. Schools everywhere are starting to shut down. Better have all the essentials at home for awhile.


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## speckline

Better have a nest egg in place as well. With all the people,(like teachers, sport support infrastructure etc, parents not being able to work because kids not in school), not working and the lack of wages, those who don't will be in a world of financial hurt! :eyeroll:


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## north1

Whether it is over reaction or not(I think so) we may find out a lot of people, places and events are unnecessary. No need for professors/teachers and infrastructure and all that goes with it when students study from home. NBA, NFL, MLB, NCAA Sports- what's that? Why have a centralized office when we have found out our homes suffice. I think a lot of people and entities may be shooting themselves in the feet. Be interesting to see how all this shakes out.


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## Canuck

My sincere apologies north. You are absolutely correct. Eight corona tests in a day at the peak of the virus in a country with 350 million people is overdoing the testing, which you don't really need anyway.

This episode will define Trump's Presidency.


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## north1

I don't understand your post. Mine was 100% non political. I was just stating that when people do without something they figure out how inconsequential, unneeded and uneconomical it was. That may come back to hurt many more people than this virus ever could or ever will. 
After the last three + years I have come to realize the left will do anything and blame everything on Trump. So it really doesn't matter what he does or how he does it. What he says or how he states it. He has done NOTHING -EVER that they agree with. Think about it. I watch different news outlets. In 3+ years I have never heard ONE positive comment from democrats. That's amazingly sad. It really is some kind of serious mental problem. When you can't find something positive to say in 3+ years and revel in calling the leader of your country ever foul, disgusting and belittling name in the book that is abnormal. Then when a country needs to come together to face a threat people just keep driving the wedges in deeper. It's obvious they would rather destroy the country than watch it come together under president Trump. In sowing the seeds of discontent they will reap what they sow.
I want to make it clear this post wasn't aimed at you Canuck. I have said before and will state again Trump is not perfect and neither was his handling of this virus outbreak. But our other elected leaders are the ones creating and passing the bills that give direction and funding to the agencies that are involved in response to Covid 19. This includes the CDC. Yet 100% of everything you hear 100% of the time is that "Cheeto" is to blame for it all, all of the time. It is tiring. When Obama was our president I called someone out on this site for a derogatory comment that was made about him and received some backlash but that is fine. It wasn't appropriate. I didn't agree with a large majority of his policies but dammit he was my president and accepted it. He was far from perfect as well. I didn't fully blame him for the swine flu(H1N1) response in 2009 either. We are just so divided in this country that we can't even come together to make a virus the enemy instead of a president. God help us ALL.


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## Canuck

Sorry I should have directed my stupid post to huntin!.

I just realized if you take the dem out of pandemic whatta ya got?

Trudeau's wife just tested positive. I suspect the PM will as well.
Trump will be next based on his complete denial of the need for measures like no handshakes, etc.
As much as I don't like Trump for his lack of dignity, I have not called him every foul, despicable name in the book.
I'll make no more comments on his lack of leadership.


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> My sincere apologies north. You are absolutely correct. Eight corona tests in a day at the peak of the virus in a country with 350 million people is overdoing the testing, which you don't really need anyway.
> 
> This episode will define Trump's Presidency.


Only for the truly retarded. As much as I disliked the Muslim Obama I am intelligent enough to know Congress and the president provide the scientists with funding, and trust them to make the right decisions. However even the scientists can not see a yet to mutated virus in the future. Only people who don't understand government or science can see that. They have perfect 20/20 hindsight and expect others to have 20/20 foresight.
Canuck you should have told everyone this was coming.


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## Canuck

Even though everything in Canada sucks when compared to the USA...Canadian research team isolates novel corona virus behind COVID-19

Isolating the virus, which has caused (as of March 12) more than 125,000 infections around the world since it first appeared in China's Hubei province in December 2019, can help scientists in Canada and around the world to "develop better diagnostic testing, treatments, and vaccines," and also understand it a bit better in terms of its biology and evolution, according to Sunnybrook.

https://globalnews.ca/news/6670445/cana ... -isolated/

As well, Quebec researchers say they can have a vaccine ready for human trials by August

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/r ... id=U142DHP


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## huntin1

There are a number of countries in the US and across the globe who are working on a viable vaccine for covid-19.

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/ana ... cov-drugs/

Your claim that the US is (completely unprepared) based on the number of tests ran on one cherry picked day are disengenuous at best. If you look at the tests run by day you see that the numbers fluctuate widely, this is because you can only run tests on those who actually come in for a test. This does not reflect on the preparedness of the medical profession running the tests, but rather on the willingness of the population to be tested on any given day.

The liberal democrats in this country along with people like you abroad are making this a political issue, it's all Trumps fault, again totally disengenuous.

I'll say it again, if the same things were happening while Obummer was President you and people like you would be offering up praise for the stellar response by him and his administration.

A classic case of Trump derangement syndrome.


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## Plainsman

They are talking about the swine flue on the radio now. When Obama was president and 1000 people had already died they buried the news on page six of the New York times and it was only a couple of sentences. 
If this Corona virus is as bad as they say it's going to kill a few million in the high population areas. The areas that vote democrat. So if they win next year they will loose for the next 100 years. My actual prediction is this big scare will be over by July and people will see it for what it is. Even with the media hyping it anyone with an IQ beyond 75 will see how they were scammed. The problem is the media and democrats are such liars you never know when they tell the truth and lie about these thing so everyone has to play it safe and prepare. Example: no one can actually be so stupid they can think this is Trumps fault, but they will tell others that.


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## Canuck

To date Canada has conducted just over 15,000 Covid-19 tests. The USA has carried out just over 13,000.
The USA has 10 times the population of Canada.
While I am sure the USA test numbers will rapidly go up as you increase your testing capabilities, Canadians have been advised to not travel to countries that do not yet have their testing done and hot spots located. 
The wife of Canada's Prime Minister has tested positive. She is in quarantine. The PM is in self-isolation to prevent passing the virus to ANYONE including the elderly and compromised. Trudeau came out of his house and explained the situations to Canadians. We believed him.
The leader of the USA has said this is a democratic hoax meant to harm him and only him. He doesn't think it is a big deal. He is still shaking hands even though he has been exposed. I wonder how many sick and elderly he may have remotely contacted. Although he has not been tested it was by choice that he continued to disregard approved procedures. Again, he says it is no big deal. We don't believe him. Me and people like me have heard him give the wrong advice and information far too many times.


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## Canuck

Plainsman said:


> My actual prediction is this big scare will be over by July and people will see it for what it is.


Be a pretty good fire drill for the real thing though, eh. :beer:


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## north1

I commend your infectious disease research institutions for being on top of this and I am cheering them on 100%. I have as much or more in common with my Canadian friends 20 short miles away as I do with US citizens further south. In fact I spent all yesterday morning in their company in a meeting on identity preserved oats for General Mills. I contract these through an elevator company based in Canada. We get along splendidly and we have a mutual respect for each other and the agricultural research agencies based on both sides of the border. People working within our countries as well as between them can tackle this current epidemiological problem as well as future ones as long as we keep the true enemy in our sights.

Don't sell yourself short. You have a beautiful, wonderful country comprised of lot of great caring people. There are bad apples in control on both sides of the border.

Although I don't agree with prime minister Trudeaus political leanings I wish him and his wife the best and hope and pray that she recovers unharmed by her diagnosis and hope and pray he isn't infected. If he is I have the same sentiments.


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## Canuck

North I see why you go by the handle "north".
The folks I have known for years in ND also live within a couple miles of the border with Sask.
We often say that we have more in common with each other than those folks from each of our countries that live on both coasts.
I sure hope this virus does not affect my travel to your fine country.
That would be a shame.
I wish everyone here all the best.
I like it that we can all take a jab every now and then.


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## southdakbearfan

Time to hunker down, clean guns, load ammo, tie fishing lures and stay safe & busy.


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## Plainsman

I see Oelosi tied funding for abortions to funding this fight. They could never get what she wants passed before. So to save maybe 1000 adults (maybe more maybe less) we have to let this evil woman kill a half million babies?


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## north1

Now that is really, really messed up. We truly have some elected "leaders" who are satanic and evil.


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## oldfireguy

Reported that Coronavirus determined to be a "friend" of the Clintons. 
Anticipate the sudden and unexplained end to the disease.


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## Canuck

Hang on to your hats boys, this is going to get worse before it gets better.
The scenes of crowds of people returning home, being jammed together at the airport for hours, are not very encouraging.
I was surprised that President Trump tested negative after his exposure and the fact that he seemed all stuffed up yesterday.
Italy must have got hit with a slightly different strain or something. Things there are dire.


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## north1

Have been thinking about the Italian situation. They have a very proficient medical system. There are instances when viruses are virulent in populations with a specific genetic profile. European society is changing but bloodlines are generally less diverse in Europe than say North America. Perhaps they are more prone to this form of Cornavirus strain? I have also heard there is a much more direct relationship between China and Italy as the Chinese have used it as a destination getaway extensively and purchased a lot of real estate there. I guess time will tell.


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## speckline

Maybe it's due to Italians being so kissy-huggy with everyone they know!
Not saying this to be mean, just a long term observation of the Italians in my family and one I know.


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> Hang on to your hats boys, this is going to get worse before it gets better.
> The scenes of crowds of people returning home, being jammed together at the airport for hours, are not very encouraging.
> I was surprised that President Trump tested negative after his exposure and the fact that he seemed all stuffed up yesterday.
> Italy must have got hit with a slightly different strain or something. Things there are dire.


That and the snowbirds return from Florida, Texas. Arizona, and the cesspool Kalifornia.


----------



## speckline

Plainsman said:


> Canuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hang on to your hats boys, this is going to get worse before it gets better.
> The scenes of crowds of people returning home, being jammed together at the airport for hours, are not very encouraging.
> I was surprised that President Trump tested negative after his exposure and the fact that he seemed all stuffed up yesterday.
> Italy must have got hit with a slightly different strain or something. Things there are dire.
> 
> 
> 
> That and the snowbirds return from Florida, Texas. Arizona, and the cesspool Kalifornia.
Click to expand...

Same concern here. Snowbirds double our population in the next month or so. They will be chomping at the bit to get away from the public just to bring all their shiite here. uke:


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## Canuck

I wish no one gets the virus, but how does it work in the States if say both Trump and Pence were to succumb who would be President? Something tells me it would be Pelosi but I am not up on your procedures around Presidential succession.
Better keep them boys healthy.


----------



## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> I wish no one gets the virus, but how does it work in the States if say both Trump and Pence were to succumb who would be President? Something tells me it would be Pelosi but I am not up on your procedures around Presidential succession.
> Better keep them boys healthy.


 Pelosi is next in line. That's going to keep me awake tonight. That woman is a few fries short of a happy meal.


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## TKincaid

CV is a Smokescreen, a diversion, part of the coincidental 'perfect storm' while our dollar and economy is in the process of being destroyed by the Fed Print Cabal.

With quarantines, they can make sure the public stays at home, rather than gathers to force arrests for those responsible for the turmoil and destruction. Its all theatre, staged. They are all actors, including Trump., selected by the Cabal to 'lead' us through the bankruptcy of our dollar, as he has experience with it, its all a sick joke.

'Politics is entertainment for Bankers and the Military Industrial Complex.'
-Frank Zappa


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## Plainsman

TKincaid stop smoking that crap. Trump would be the last one to destroy the economy he worked so hard to build. Oooops I went and took you serious. With further thought no one has a tin foil hat that tight on their head. Nice try though. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

Things to really look at....

1. How is the situation being handled with places who are on socialized medicine.
- Are they over run, over burdened, under staffed, etc.
( In Italy this is all going on)

2. How is living conditions in the places with these out breaks.
- What I mean is that in some of these countries people live on top of each other, multiple generations living in the same home/apartment, the kiss greetings, cleanliness of places, etc. I am not saying these other places are "Junk" or "S-holes". But look at culture. Some cultures they have 3 generations living in the same home. So one person gets sick the whole home gets sick. think of it like when a child comes home with an illness.... it typically runs thru the family. Now if you are a house of 4 in the USA... in other countries that is a household of 10 or more.

3. Are we over correcting or are we doing what should have been done by China ASAP.
- I read an article that stated that if China would have listened to a Doctor right away this would have been isolated really quickly. But again.. .Don't know if that is true or not.

4. The cancelling of stuff and "quaranteen" issues will be huge hits on economy and people who are living paycheck to pay check.
- In MN they are talking about shutting down all cosemotology places...ie: no hair cuts. Because of how close people have to be with each other.

5. The hysteria of the whole hording of TP.... what are people thinking. You have running water take a shower if your bottom is dirty :thumb: . It is all monkey see monkey do right now.

I am not saying that we should take this whole thing lightly at all because it is serious. But try not to fall for the hysteria. Because yes our elected officals are playing politics. Especially when some of the Dem's were trying some BS and couldn't pass a clean bill or let it pass without putting in some BS. Good leaders stay calm, make tough decisions, and try to curb hysteria. I am not saying Trump is doing a great job of this.... but others are not helping him at all.


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## TKincaid

Plainsman said:


> TKincaid stop smoking that crap. Trump would be the last one to destroy the economy he worked so hard to build. Oooops I went and took you serious. With further thought no one has a tin foil hat that tight on their head. Nice try though. :thumb:


Its destroyed, Put a fork in it.... Want proof? Do you really want proof?
Who did Trumps Secretary of the Treasury meet with today and appoint?
Goldman Sachs called for another 30-50 % loss of all value. That optimistic. Trump is a buffoon & swamp creature.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ntil-2-000


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## TKincaid

Chuck Smith said:


> Things to really look at....
> 
> 1. How is the situation being handled with places who are on socialized medicine.
> - Are they over run, over burdened, under staffed, etc.
> ( In Italy this is all going on)
> 
> 2. How is living conditions in the places with these out breaks.
> - What I mean is that in some of these countries people live on top of each other, multiple generations living in the same home/apartment, the kiss greetings, cleanliness of places, etc. I am not saying these other places are "Junk" or "S-holes". But look at culture. Some cultures they have 3 generations living in the same home. So one person gets sick the whole home gets sick. think of it like when a child comes home with an illness.... it typically runs thru the family. Now if you are a house of 4 in the USA... in other countries that is a household of 10 or more.
> 
> 3. Are we over correcting or are we doing what should have been done by China ASAP.
> - I read an article that stated that if China would have listened to a Doctor right away this would have been isolated really quickly. But again.. .Don't know if that is true or not.
> 
> 4. The cancelling of stuff and "quaranteen" issues will be huge hits on economy and people who are living paycheck to pay check.
> - In MN they are talking about shutting down all cosemotology places...ie: no hair cuts. Because of how close people have to be with each other.
> 
> 5. The hysteria of the whole hording of TP.... what are people thinking. You have running water take a shower if your bottom is dirty :thumb: . It is all monkey see monkey do right now.
> 
> I am not saying that we should take this whole thing lightly at all because it is serious. But try not to fall for the hysteria. Because yes our elected officals are playing politics. Especially when some of the Dem's were trying some BS and couldn't pass a clean bill or let it pass without putting in some BS. Good leaders stay calm, make tough decisions, and try to curb hysteria. I am not saying Trump is doing a great job of this.... but others are not helping him at all.


1. Italy has the 2nd Best Healthcare system in the world.
2. The USA is ALREADY Socialist. And effectively 3rd word in many parts, esp inner cities.
3. The USA is already infected, and at probably higher levels. Our methods of greeting are similar. China contained it well, yet Trump allowed direct flights from Wuhan for 3 wks after China had already stopped all travel from that province.
4. Agreed. It also keeps people from Running on the banks, which are bankrupt. Said runs are already happening in Manhattan- Zero Hedge reported this.
5.TP is about hygeine. When the trucks stop moving and delivering, TP in any crisis is a luxury. Ask any woman


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## TKincaid

To bring on their new currency, they have to destroy the present one. Its been planned for decades.
The problem is that you go to bed a millionaire, but wake up penniless. All fiat currencies return to their value- $0
1988 Economist


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## Plainsman

> 1. Italy has the 2nd Best Healthcare system in the world.
> 2. The USA is ALREADY Socialist. And effectively 3rd word in many parts, esp inner cities.
> 3. The USA is already infected, and at probably higher levels. Our methods of greeting are similar. China contained it well, yet Trump allowed direct flights from Wuhan for 3 wks after China had already stopped all travel from that province.


1. You wouldn't guess it.
2. Agreed.
3. Democrats called him racist when he did cut travel. He did it early enough to save thousands of lives.

World currency???? I sure hope your wrong, but the democrats have pushed hard that way. Some republicans too. I think daddy Bush was a globalist.


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## Canuck

Patient Number one in Italy tried for three days to see a doctor about his "flu". He was seen and sent home three days in a row, infecting a lot of people and health care workers in the process. Sufficient testing capability was not available to identify hot spots. Italy has a fairly large elderly population. Northern Italy has some air quality issues that have hampered the elderly.

The biggest problem, and this is what the USA (and Canada) still have yet to deal with, is the fact that this is a respiratory disease and there were insufficient respirators for everyone who needed one to survive the night. Doctors spoke of having to practice war time medicine to decide who got the respirator, the 80 year old or the 40 year old.

I think the US could be in the same boat as Italy over the next two weeks. This will happen if people don't wise up and start practicing social isolating.

Trump seems to maybe, possibly, finally be getting the seriousness of the situation.


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## north1

Tom Hanks and his wife released from hospital and are at their home in Australia. He stated he feels like he has a cold. Great news. If Tom or his wife kicked the bucket people would really freak out. This whole situation reminds me how we are such a selfish, self absorbed, pathetic and weak species.


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## Plainsman

> Trump seems to maybe, possibly, finally be getting the seriousness of the situation.


 I think he always got it, but was trying to keep people from panic. Don't let partisanship blind your judgement.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-generati ... 1584437401

The Drudge report has headlines that say we are on the brink of a generational war. Since the millennials don't get that sick they in large numbers are refusing to listen to advise. Likewise youth are on the beaches in Florida for spring break and when colleges were closed it was one big drunk fest. We have some people who have raised their children to be worthless self centered low lives. With that in mind there is little hope that we will not loose a lot of people to this virus. I think they need to hit the beaches with pepper spray. If that don't work escalate force until it soaks through their thick self centered heads. The public schools have told these kids they are perfect little darlings and as they take the virus home to kill their grandparents they will blame Trump.

This fall when we vote we will have to choose Trump or don't know sh-t or can't remember sh-t that wins the democrat nomination. I always vote for the lesser of two evils. That means not a baby killer, for sale to the Ukrane or China, not pro gay marriage, not a socialist ----------- doesn't leave me with a real choice. Oh and not Mexico before the U S, not China before the U S, not America last. Oh and there are no people who are alive now who once were slaves so no reparation for slavery. I'm willing to bet if we could all look into our past we would find a slave somewhere in history. Socialism makes slaves of all.


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## Chuck Smith

> Patient Number one in Italy tried for three days to see a doctor about his "flu". He was seen and sent home three days in a row, infecting a lot of people and health care workers in the process. Sufficient testing capability was not available to identify hot spots. Italy has a fairly large elderly population. Northern Italy has some air quality issues that have hampered the elderly.


Remember how people talked about socialized medicine and the fear of "Death panels".... what happened in one of the supposed best socialized systems....HMMMMMM.

Again I know the second part of the post states they didn't have enough resporators and what not. But again.... when things are socialized this happens. The government running "testing" or the manufacturing of "tests" you fall short of things. Look what happened once trump lifted the "testing" thing from the CDC..... now Mayo clinic, John Hopkins, etc. These other places had things ready to go or took a very short time to get them available.

I was looking for the tweet that Rep. Dan Crenshaw posted about the testing issues. How he stated it wasn't Obama's fault or Trumps fault.... it was our process. He goes on to say the whole process needs to be looked at to help stream line in a pandemic like this. He stated that the reason why Obama did what he did was because of a cancer test that someone developed and sold actually didn't work. That is why Obama did what he did. So I will take back how it was Obama's fault on the whole testing issue. But what Trump did was help us develop testing quicker. We got it done quicker than all the other nations. So we are ahead of the game compared to China, Italy, etc. So this should help to hopefully isolate.

Plus the bill that is trying to get passed.

On the whole bill issues.... a Rep in TX is holding it up. He is REPUBLICAN. He is saying he wants to make sure the language is correct in it. Which after he held it up they found out the language was incorrect and needs to just be cleaned up. (lawyer stuff so possibility for less loop holes). So hopefully they can get that done ASAP and sent to the Senate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSQLtW8 ... tion=share


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## Canuck

I am confused...is this not a social(ist) program?

Medicare is a national health insurance program in the United States, begun in 1966 under the Social Security Administration (SSA) and now administered by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). It primarily provides health insurance for Americans aged 65 and older, but also for some younger people with disability status as determined by the Social Security Administration, as well as people with end stage renal disease and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease).


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## Plainsman

> I am confused...is this not a social(ist) program?


 I would say so. The more irresponsible people become the more they rely on the government. Forty year old people today are the 15 year old people of yesterday. You run into 50 year old people today that act like helpless children. The only reason Berny is popular is because no one wants to take care of themselves. They left momma so now they need a gov tit. Every person at a Berny rally is a parasite.


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## Canuck

I am surprised that you feel so strongly toward those over 65.
Will you, or are you taking advantage of or getting the benefit from the Medicare program?
Or do you still pay into it?
Do you feel that way about medicare to veterans?
If so, I can understand why you feel such negativity towards Canada and other countries that provide something similar to their citizens.

P.S. ALS is a *****.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> Medicare is a national health insurance program in the United States, begun in 1966 under the Social Security Administration (SSA) and now administered by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). It primarily provides health insurance for Americans aged 65 and older, but also for some younger people with disability status as determined by the Social Security Administration, as well as people with end stage renal disease and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease).


Yes and no.... Medicare is what pays for it. It is up to the hospital to accept medicare or not. (I think almost all do) So the program is socialized but the hospitals have a choice. Where in a truly socialized medicine hospitals don't have a choice what they can accept or not. Remember the VA had its own hospitals and those were the only ones who accepted VA. those were the only hospitals where veterans could go if they wanted to use VA benefits. Well that changed under Trump.... which again is a push towards socialized to a certain extent. But it gives OPTIONS to the consumer. Which in most socialized situations that isn't the case. You have one hospital you go to or one specialists.


----------



## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> I am surprised that you feel so strongly toward those over 65.
> Will you, or are you taking advantage of or getting the benefit from the Medicare program?
> Or do you still pay into it?
> Do you feel that way about medicare to veterans?
> If so, I can understand why you feel such negativity towards Canada and other countries that provide something similar to their citizens.
> 
> P.S. ALS is a b#tch.


We are stuck with it now. After paying in 50 years a person doesn't want to not get benefits

I don't feel negative towards Canada its just that my relatives up there say its crap compared to ours. I don't like ssf socialism. I don't like people in the United States teying to push us into socialism. I certainly don't want any country trying to tell us how to run ours.

France complains about Trump. I don't care because I think in the past 25 years France is as much a crap hole country as the ones Trump talked about. Every communist country, and eventually every socialist country becomes a crap hole country. I don't want to go there. They would like to see us turn socialist so we were not as competitive. They crawl over our southern boarder so they can have what they did not work for. I don't care what nationality they are when they cross illegally they should get an automatic five years in a desert tent prison. They are fleeing the socialism the fools created. Then they come here illegally which is criminal and want to turn our country into what they left.


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## Canuck

Trump's biggest f#@k up yet is saying that he knew this would be a pandemic before anyone.
Why then did he say what he said telling people to go on cruises, go to work. He is KILLING people. Idiot. uke:


----------



## speckline

Let me give you some facts Canuck

1) Corona Virus started in China late in 2019. What were our democrats and media focused on? Impeaching Trump for the third year and counting. I'm actually not going to blame anybody for not paying attention just yet

2) January 2020 the virus is spreading rapidly and appears to be dangerous. What were democrats and the media focused on? Impeaching Trump of course

What proposals did any democrat make about containing the coronavirus? None, which is par for the course

3) On January 31, 2020, Trump imposes a travel ban on China. What did the democrats and our media say?(Look above post.) Unnecessary, overreaction, racist...., all the stupid stuff they always say to impress really stupid people.

What were the democrats and their media focused on? Calling the Senate biased for not removing Trump from office.

4) Up until just maybe three weeks ago or so, what proposals did the Democrats make about the chinesevirus that were ignored? NONE, they were focused on stopping the Bern. They have the speaker, they control the narrative, they had the debates, they had the attention, they have the voice, yet the only thing they knew about the chinesevirus was that Trump overreacted on the travel ban.

5) How important was this Chinese travel ban? It's huge, it's the primary reason we're NOT Italy of Europe right now. Italians are actually blaming their problems on Trump. They say his travel ban increased Asian tourism in their country substantially, and this is why they have it has bad as they do. No, I'm not joking

6) Obviously Trump was way ahead of the curve when imposing this travel ban, he protected Americans, the democrats attacked him for this, and now they're blaming this virus on him.

7)What do we read from the media and the trump haters about this? Calling President Trump names and showing total DISRESPECT.

Another example of why I can't possibly respect them less than I do. They're liars, they're scumbags, they're losers, they're uninformed, they're azzholes......, simultaneously

They have a mutant gene, they're genetically inferior, they open their mouths and expose their ignorance and they get all giddy and crap only when they think there's some bad news that's going to bring Trump down. Then they hoard TP so they can clean their mouths everytime the speak.

Trump is obviously trying to coddle these people when he says things like "it's similar to the flu". BTW, it is for MOST.
As far a him believing he thought it was a pandemic early, see #3.


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## KEN W

Yup.....totally the Democrats fault we are in the situation. Not one Republican had anything to do with this. Heck the Dems probably developed this virus somewhere in a lab and then took it to China and turned it loose. Then they also turned it loose in Italy. They also made sure we did not have enough test kits to test for it.

Now with the trillion dollars that are going to be spent to stop it, Republicans will make sure that the large companies get the bulk of it. After all the CEO's need to get a huge bonus first before any of it filters down. Just like the large auto makers got. Then old do gooder Trump will make sure there is another tax cut that mostly goes to the richest Americans. Just love all the things Republicans make sure the wealthiest citizens get. This stuff all sure gets old after awhile.


----------



## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> Trump's biggest f#@k up yet is saying that he knew this would be a pandemic before anyone.
> Why then did he say what he said telling people to go on cruises, go to work. He is KILLING people. Idiot. uke:


You make no sense Canuck. You jump from one false hate Trump to another. Come clean what's your real problem with Trump. Is it the new trade agreement that's fair and Canada doesn't get to shaft us anymore. Most that hate Trump and have derangement syndrom have some underlying reason. Women who cant keep their legs together hate Trump because he is against them killing their kids and continuing jumping every guy they see. Trump believes in Biblical/ltraditional marriage and that makes guys who lust for an anus hate him. There has to be a reason for the dark hate so many exude.



> They have a mutant gene, they're genetically inferior, they open their mouths and expose their ignorance and they get all giddy and crap only when they think there's some bad news that's going to bring Trump down. Then they hoard TP so they can clean their mouths everytime the speak.


Ditto, satanic bast#$=÷ards. :thumb: No solution to anything, but complain when anyone else has an idea. They want illegals to come and destroy this country. Their only loyalty is to their prefered perversion of which the biggest is destroying truth.


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## Chuck Smith

I wont go blaming democrats at all for this.

The only thing I will blame them for is some of the criticism of the president. Like what was posted above.... Trump does travel ban.... he gets called racist. Then in the next breathe they say he isn't doing enough. Then it comes out that it was a good move to do the travel ban.... Then the democrats say he should have done it sooner.... etc. That is what I blame them for. It is BLAME BUSH all over again. Then the only other thing I can blame the Dem's for is they tried to poison the funding bill for all of this in the House with abortion stuff. WHY!!!!

But to say it is Dem's fault is wrong. * I am blaming them for trying to politicize it. *

Like I posted what the Rep from TX stated about it. We need to blame the process that is in place for some of this. It isn't a Dem's vs Republican thing. It is a system issue because it hasn't been looked at for years. HENCE TOO MUCH GOVERMENT RED TAPE. I wish I could find that video he had up but I cant right now. He put it on his twitter feed but I couldn't find it. Anyways he basically blamed CONGRESS.... yes even pointing the finger at Republicans on this one. He stated our past and present elected leaders in CONGRESS are the ones to blame. It was a really good video on this and calm explanation.

Now with what Cunuck stated about Trump saying.... OH I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO COME TO THIS... or what ever he said. That is Trumps ego getting in the way. He just always has to be the BEST, SMARTEST, etc. But I will give him credit because he was trying to stay calm and keep the people calm. That is what a good leader does. They don't try to cause hysteria. This is where I will attack the media... because they are not doing this. But I will save my rant because you can see what they are doing.

In the millitary your general doesn't tell his troops... OH WE ARE F'ed and all going to die. They try to stay up beat and try to figure out ways to either win or have less casualties. On a sports team... your captains, coaches, etc. Don't come out and say... WE ARE GOING TO GET SMASHED TONIGHT... when you are playing the best team in the state. They try to formulate a game plan to win, to have some success for the team, etc. When going in they know they will get smashed. You have to stay calm and collective to keep everyone calm and collective and to push forward. This is what a leader does.

But now on a side note or political note. If people really want to see what socialism really is like.... we are at it. Low supplies of things, government telling us what we can and cant do (restaurants needs to close, school closings, gatherings closing, etc). THink about it... this is a major over reach on our freedoms. They are making privately run business to shut down or shut its doors. That isn't the USA. Do I agree it is something that should be done... YES it will help stop the spread of this. But is this FREEDOM... .NO!!!!!!! Is this government over reach.... YES!!! Should they just be recommending that these place shut down.... yes. Should they force it... NO.


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## Canuck

Blame the Democrats and the media. Blame everyone but the leader.
Where does the buck stop now?
So many of you have your tin foil hats on way too tight.
Trump stopped travelers from China because he did not want "His Corona numbers to go up unfairly" exact quote..
Canadians wanted our southern border closed yesterday but we all had to wait until it was His idea today (him being the "chosen one" and all). What an arrogant fool. You all have to give your heads a big shake and wake up.


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## Canuck

Plainsman, I read a lot of fear in your post.
You are very, very concerned about homosexuality and promiscuity. Would you feel better if Trump made anal sex illegal?
Would you be less concerned that it might somehow come into your life?

I hate Trump because he is wasting the opportunity to be a President. He does not have the social skills, the intelligence or the integrity for the job. He is a despicable person and the world is paying the price for his "leadership".

Nothing to do with the little changed free trade agreement. You have all been had. We are sitting here laughing and gloating. So easy to manipulate the President. Stroke his ego. Tell Him he is the best. We got everything we wanted and more. Manipulation at its finest. And all done by a short little fireplug of a woman, who Trump HATES by the way. Says she is vicious.


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## KEN W

So why did it take Trump 2 weeks to finally figure out we could be in very serious trouble? This buffoon needs to cut out all his adjectives.....oral and on Twitter. We really need to get this guy out of office. Enough is enough. When our economy goes in the dumpster, people might finally figure this clown out.


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## Chuck Smith

I am amazed nobody has yet gone off on this tangent.....

"You see we were right. Trump is acting like a dictator".... You just wait I am sure someone will go off on it.

Good news...

Just read that China has closed down its last Corona hospital. Because the cases are not spiking anymore and the regular hospitals can handle any new cases.

Doctors in India have been successful in battling the virus with a combination of certain meds.

Some researchers at the Erasmus Medical Center claim to have found an antibody against coronavirus.

106 year old woman after being treated for 6 days has recovered in china

Cleveland Clinic developed a COVID-19 test that gives results in hours, not days.

Scientists in Israel likely to announce the development of a coronavirus vaccine.

3 Maryland coronavirus patients fully recovered; able to return to everyday life

Canadian scientists are making excellent progress in Covid-19 research.

A San Diego biotech company is developing a Covid-19 vaccine in collaboration with Duke University and National University of Singapore.

Tulsa County's first positive COVID-19 case has recovered.... he has had two negative tests which is indicating he is recovering.

All 7 patients who were getting treated for at Safdarjung hospital in New Delhi have recovered.

Plasma from newly recovered patients from Covid -19 can treat others infected by Covid-19.

So lets stay focused on the positive and moving forward...

Again lets put this in perspective..... After dealing with this for about 2 months (first case found in USA) the death toll from this virus is at 100..... there are more people that die in the USA in car accidents per day. Again I am not saying don't take this situation lightly at all. Do the cleaning, washing, avoiding public or big group settings, etc. But just wanted to put some perspective on the situation. It isn't the sky is falling. But be safe and cautious.

The stock market went up yesterday by 1000 points. Lets see if we can keep that gain or not.


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## KEN W

Chuck.....thing about China is that it is a totalitarian country. They forced everyone into their homes and probably executed those who didn't. Can't do that here. And people aren't doing what they should. Just look at the pictures of those beaches in Florida that are packed with college students who don't want anyone to interfere in their fun. :eyeroll:


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## speckline

Trumps fault!
Point of my previous point is to demonstrate Trump and his administration has jumped all over this thing and early in the game. Meanwhile, the dumbocraps were busy focusing all their time on impeaching him.
Now their saying he didn't act fast enough. All the while they were impeaching him, he was involved with experts to create a plan to address it. Frustrating on the stupidity going on here!


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## Plainsman

> Plainsman, I read a lot of fear in your post.


 No wonder you dont understand things. It's not fear its anger that these things are more important to liberals than their nation. They let these things define their lived.

Canuck your response is typical of liberals as ls. If you don't like something they say you fear it, or they call you homophobic, or their favorite is racist. They call names when they do not have logic. Mocking isn't logical.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Chuck.....thing about China is that it is a totalitarian country. They forced everyone into their homes and probably executed those who didn't. Can't do that here. And people aren't doing what they should. Just look at the pictures of those beaches in Florida that are packed with college students who don't want anyone to interfere in their fun. :eyeroll:


I agree. How is this Trumps fault?


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## Chuck Smith

Ken....

Agreed 100%. I have seen people come out and say that this non-sense will stop once the young people take responsibility and caution. Not so much "shut down".... but don't go to packed bars, don't go to packed parties. It is up to them to help slow all of this in a timely manner.

Glad I am in MN where things are still cold outside... :thumb:


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## north1

When you are young, invincible and grow up with anything you want at anytime it isn't surprising. Schools out..........For Summer!!! Party time.

I thought they should have been kept in college/school where they are basically quarantined. Then parents and teachers have at least some control. But the cat is out of the bag now in many respects.

It will now be years until we see any recovery economically, socially, politically or medically. This will subside over summer and heat up in fall. It will mutate and other viruses will be added to it from the China petrie dish. Welcome to the new-new. It's going to be painful. If people want to affix blame the primary direction should be China. SARS, MERS, H1N1, avian flu ???????????.


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## Plainsman

> I hate Trump because he is wasting the opportunity to be a President. He does not have the social skills, the intelligence or the integrity for the job. He is a despicable person and the world is paying the price for his "leadership


".

On what grounds do you make these judgements. Perhaps you should let Trump in on your information.

Time after time in this site people post things they think are going to take Trump down. After proven wrong ten to fifteen times you would think they would learn. Nope they fall hook line and sinker for the next lie.

Do you want to know the next lie you will sucker for? Trump told the governors that they will send them test kitsch, but they may be able to get them faster on their own and would be reimbursed. How do you think the media reported it? They said Trump told the governors they were on their own. Now you can go find it and present it here as truth.


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## Chuck Smith

If people don't thing we should put blame on some of the discourse going on right now with the virus or even political.... look at what is going on right now....

THEY ARE UP IN ARMS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE REFERING TO THE VIRUS AS THE CHINESE VIRUS..... let this sink in. Reporters are hammering Trump with this question or topic. Let me see.... where did the virus originated in? CHINA!!!!

So for anyone who says the media isn't trying to push agenda's... just think about this right now. They are more concerned about the name of a virus than other things.

BTW... look what news outlets that China is saying they will ban the reporters.... WSJ, NY Times, WA POST..... which way do those outlets lean... Just saying things to take into consideration.

Like I mentioned I didn't want to get on the soap box of the media.... but they keep making fools of themselves.

I am giving alittle leeway of any outlet that is speaking doom and gloom. Because that is what sells. Also if they were an outlet that didn't take it serious and we have a catasterophy then people will point fingers at them. But if they speak doom and gloom and it isn't it seems like a no harm no foul type situation. (when it isn't...but I give some leeway.)


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## Chuck Smith

If people don't think trump is doing enough...

He just asked the HHS to allow doctors, nurses and some other health professionals to be able to work across state lines to help where the need might arise.


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## Chuck Smith

Little more on the media POUNDING the name of the virus....

Maybe they should just keep talking about how to stay healthy, clean, and keep people safe... they don't need to worry about a "NAME".


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## Plainsman

Chuck Smith said:


> Little more on the media POUNDING the name of the virus....
> 
> Maybe they should just keep talking about how to stay healthy, clean, and keep people safe... they don't need to worry about a "NAME".


Chuck do you think liberals will get that through their thick head. If people don't want others to think they are fools they should not act and talk like fools.


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## Plainsman

> Trump stopped travelers from China because he did not want "His Corona numbers to go up unfairly" exact quote..


 ???? What? I don't even understand what your trying to say. :huh:


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## KEN W

Chuck Smith said:


> BTW... look what news outlets that China is saying they will ban the reporters.... WSJ, NY Times, WA POST..... which way do those outlets lean... Just saying things to take into consideration.)


Who started this?????? The Clown Prince. And since when is a reporter not ask questions. Might as well stop having these daily PRESS BRIEFINGS.

"China has said it is responding to a US move last month to classify Chinese state media organisations as foreign missions and tighten controls on them. China's foreign ministry said such "unwarranted restrictions" had made work difficult for reporters and subject to "politically motivated oppression"


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## Canuck

On Friday, as coronavirus infections rapidly multiplied aboard a cruise ship marooned off the coast of California, health department officials and Vice President Mike Pence came up with a plan to evacuate thousands of passengers, avoiding the fate of a similar cruise ship, the Diamond Princess, which became a petri dish of coronavirus infections. Quickly removing passengers was the safest outcome, health officials and Pence reasoned."Do I want to bring all those people off? People would like me to do it," Trump admitted at a press conference at the CDC later on Friday. "I would rather have them stay on, personally."

"I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. It's not fair" Trump added, saying that he ultimately empowered Pence to decide whether to evacuate the passengers.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/0 ... yle-123465


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## Chuck Smith

Ken.....

Also more things coming out... and yes the NY Times is one that is was running this story...

"If china would have listened to a doctor it could have contained 95% of what is going on". Also that is the China Government would have moved quicker.... this would have been contained by 95% or more. So is these same outlets showing the China government in a bad light so that is why they are getting kicked out?

More on this stuff will break as the weeks moving forward.

But I also found it funny that China was screaming FAKE NEWS at the same outlets that Trump does the same too when the write opinion pieces that they say are "facts".

But my calling out the reporters in the white house screaming "racist" is very very accurate. One reporter asked the same question 2 times. Great use of your allotted time when things are moving so quickly on this whole issue.


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## Canuck

Double post


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## Chuck Smith

> "I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. It's not fair" Trump added, saying that he ultimately empowered Pence to decide whether to evacuate the passengers.


So take a snippet of the article where he talked about numbers doubling....

Lets break this down. Trump mentioned he would personally have the people stay on the ship... ie: quarenteened. Instead of bringing people off the ship who could spread it outside of the ship. I don't see a flaw in his statement. The number could have "DOUBLED"... it might have.

So should have Trump just let the cruise ships dock, let anyone off and come into the ports and cities???


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## Canuck

So should have Trump just let the cruise ships dock, let anyone off and come into the ports and cities???

These were American citizens. I was shocked when I heard Trump say it was unfair that the numbers would be going up through no fault of his own.

Here in Canada, if I get to the border I have the right to enter the country as a Canadian. NO ONE can stop me.
Not even a President who was more concerned that he would look bad. Everything he does seems to be about him first, then every one else. I am proud to be a Canadian, proud of how we are dealing with this when compared to your kids on the beaches. and proud of our preparedness. Our leader is not getting in the way!! In fact, he is laying low with his wife being in quarantine. And still the virus spreads and the numbers go up.

Let's protect our senior citizens...especially since I am one.

In fairness, if it wasn't winter here our kids would be on the beach as well.


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## Plainsman

> Trump stopped travelers from China because he did not want "His Corona numbers to go up unfairly" exact quote..





> "I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. It's not fair" Trump added, saying that he ultimately empowered Pence to decide whether to evacuate the passengers.





> His Corona numbers to go up unfairly" exact quote..


His Corona njmbers????.
exact quote????

Admit it Canuck you hate Trump so much you make crap up. Show me that exact quote. If you do find something that says this dont use that source anymore. Its rotting your brain.


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## Canuck

Plainsman,
Does a link to video work for you?
I don't think this has been faked and I did watch Trump live that day...

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-says-tho ... go-1491038


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## Plainsman

I watched your link and didn't hear him say any such thing. Watched through five Taco John adv and seen two Trup videos then it moved on to something else.

Maybe you posted the wrong link. He talked about how fortunate it was that he stopped travel froChina early, and the second clip was about two hospital ships.


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## Canuck

Perhaps you are right. try the sixth video link down video link around the 30 second mark.....where Trump says..."I like the numbers being where they are. I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship" -- Trump explains that he doesn't want to let people off the Grand Princess cruise ship because he doesn't want the number of coronavirus cases in the country to go up


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1236054778318393344


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## north1

Meanwhile, in what seems like a galaxy far, far away more of our individual rights are being eroded. I listened to Lindsey Graham this morning and he sounded EXACTLY like Bernie Sanders. Employers are unable to pay their employees wages so the government will step in and be the United States employer for the 6-8 weeks this is going to take. WHAT THE F? We just officially became sheep. Stay tuned for the slaughter.


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## dakotashooter2

Canuck said:


> On Friday, as coronavirus infections rapidly multiplied aboard a cruise ship marooned off the coast of California, health department officials and Vice President Mike Pence came up with a plan to evacuate thousands of passengers, avoiding the fate of a similar cruise ship, the Diamond Princess, which became a petri dish of coronavirus infections. Quickly removing passengers was the safest outcome, health officials and Pence reasoned."Do I want to bring all those people off? People would like me to do it," Trump admitted at a press conference at the CDC later on Friday. "I would rather have them stay on, personally."
> 
> "I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault. It's not fair" Trump added, saying that he ultimately empowered Pence to decide whether to evacuate the passengers.
> 
> https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/0 ... yle-123465


FWIW I have heard that on the Diamond Princess only 20% of the passengers were affected. That's amazingly low number considering the tight quarters and high probability of contact.

Someone made the comment That this thing could fire up again next fall. I agree... The only way we may get a handle on this is a vaccine or exposure so that the population can develop some immunity. Social distancing is only going to drag out the latter. How long can we sustain this social distancing and still survive economically?

Regarding the assistance checks the gov is planning on.. No checks....Snap cards and or vouchers for utilities or rent redeemable only by/to those companies. Otherwise it will turn into someone's drug or beer money (and it still may).


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## Plainsman

Canuck my only disagreement is your effort to make it Trump personal by saying direct quote *HIS* corona numbers. As far as his thinking I am pleased that he weighed the consequences.

I would guess everyone here sees Ilhan Omar as radically far left. She is now praising Trump for his handling of the Corona threat. So if even she praised Trump what the heck is wrong with people still *****ing? Are they nuts? They have only one excuse other than totally insane hate and that is Trump Derangement Syndrome.


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## north1

Not to change the subject but I find many things about this whole ordeal perplexing. So if I had colon cancer again and needed colon resection surgery I am SOL but abortions sadly march on at 2,200 to 2,900 per day. So you say, well, abortion clinics don't need respirators or their beds won't be used to house Covid19 patients. Can it be spread in a medical procedure between doctors, nurses and patients? If not why was my dentist appointment cancelled? No respirators or housing of Covid19 patients in the dentist office. Decisions, decisions.


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## KEN W

north1 said:


> Meanwhile, in what seems like a galaxy far, far away more of our individual rights are being eroded. I listened to Lindsey Graham this morning and he sounded EXACTLY like Bernie Sanders. Employers are unable to pay their employees wages so the government will step in and be the United States employer for the 6-8 weeks this is going to take. WHAT THE F? We just officially became sheep. Stay tuned for the slaughter.


Criticism is easy.....what is your solution for employers who can't pay wages? Just say TOO BAD...... :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Even sheep are fed every day.


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## north1

There is unemployment already. Whatever happened to people "saving money for a rainy day"? My grandfather who went through the depression always impressed upon me to sock away enough savings to support yourself for a year without other income. Then LEAVE IT ALONE till you absolutely need it. Don't expect others including Uncle Sam to take care of your problems. How can a government continue printing money and then use everyone's money to pay everyone? Every $1,000 dollar government check will eventually cost all of us what....$2,000? It's going to show up in devaluation, inflation, etc. We will be paying for this exponentially for many, many years. It will make the pain of the actual virus seem paltry in comparison. This is not political because obviously both sides are on board. It's common sense.


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## Plainsman

What worries me is thinking about Saul Alinskys quote that the only way to make America socialist is to drive its economy into the dirt then offer socialism as the only way out. I hope this isn't the swamps plan.


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## KEN W

Millions of young people with families get paid by the hour. A lot making minimum wage. They haven't had time to save much. So we should just say.....to bad, use your savings that you don't have to get by for what could be months. Talk about a recipe for disaster. This could start looking like the 1930's. And what got the country out of it.....Government programs started by FDR.

Another fine example of Republican Reaganomics....."I got mine, screw you." :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## north1

UNEMPLOYMENT. The $1,000 check goes to you and I. Have we got ours? What happens next month? Meanwhile trillions spent to bailout CEO's in an Enron style bailout supported by republicans and democrats alike. While Feinstein and the swamp rats pull a Martha Stewart and pull their millions out of stock market before the fall on inside information. Don't you see it? I can't believe people can't read the tea leaves. The $1,000 check will cost us $++++++++.


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## speckline

"Whatever happened to people "saving money for a rainy day"

Too broad a brush. People in their 50's etc, maybe. I have two kids that are just starting their careers and have not had time to save for a rainy day yet. At least not to the amount of time they will be laid off...
Just sayin


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## Chuck Smith

The $1,000 is pure BS like what north is stating.

The lifting of unemployment restrictions or waiting periods is the right thing to do. So that way people can collect ASAP instead of waiting 2 weeks.

The offering of small business loans at 0% or low interest rates is the right thing to do.

Stuff like that. Is what will help.

Also just an FYI.... the FDR programs helped with the depression. But what really got us out of the depression was WWII. Because that got people jobs... if it was millitary, manufacturing, distribution, etc. The WAR is what did it... we produced tanks, ammunition, bombs, firearms, steel production, men/women going and enlisting, etc. That is what really got us out of the depression... Most historians will agree with that perspective. The FDR programs were maybe working or starting to work. But the war jumped us out of the depression.

Now I am not saying we need a war at all. But just some old history info. oke:


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## KEN W

You guys are all correct. But Trump says "we are at war" again and again. He is right. The question is what can he do to get us on a war footing. Jobs to get people working. But it will take time and young people need something to tide them over. This package has almost unanimous approval from the entire government. Local,state,and federal.

Unbelievable that California could get almost 50% of the people there could get the virus......20 million people could get it. I'm glad I don't live in a metro area.


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## Chuck Smith

This is serious and sad all in one.

I know MN might be like CA and NY soon. The governor will be on today at 3 or so to do a speech. But he already closed down the bars/restaurants, hair salons, barbers, etc. So he is doing what CA and NY is doing (just not on the grand scale level they are). MN right now last check was about 120 case in the state. NY and CA are closer or over 1000 cases. So there is a big difference but we still need to take it seriously.

Also about this whole thing. I was watching the press conference over my lunch break (just caught parts of it.) The MEDIA isn't helping this one bit. They keep asking over and over questions that get answered.

Dr. Fauci came on and stated that everyone should be doing the 15 steps that Trump keeps talking about. The media keeps hammering about everyone should get tested. Dr. Fauci said... NO. Only if you have sympthoms. Because the people going in getting tested who are not showing symphtoms are clogging up testing. He said practice the 15 steps and if you start to get or feel the sympthoms&#8230; CALL your DOCTOR and follow their instructions. Then the Media hammered on the "shortage" of resporators. We have 130,000 resporators on hand now.... in the worse case senerio (told by a report on MSNBC) said we would need about 1,000,000. IN THE MOST EXTREME SITUATION. So yes we are short but now we have 130,000 and only 14k cases. So if all of those 14k cases needed a respirator (not all cases need the respirator) we are still 115K available. The president came out and said the GM and other manufacturors are ready to go at a moments notice. But the media kept saying... well why are they not doing it now.... BECAUSE WE DONT NEED THAT NOW.

We are a product of our needing everything done in an instant.

Again not to take this lightly and stuff. But the media is over hyping this with doom and gloom.

But I will now blame trump or say he should just shut his mouth. He kept saying over and over.... IT ISN"T HIS FAULT THEY INHERITED THIS BROKEN SYSTEM..... Well it is true. But he should just say we are fixing the system or changing it. Not push blame. He should just say we are fixing the wrongs to make things go smoother. Also I will give him credit he did say that even though the system was broken... it wasn't set up for this. Which nobody thought would happen.... other than tin foil hate people. oke:

EDIT: MN is as of today at 11 am... has 115 cases. Also two of the cases that are in my neck of the woods were people who came home from a mission trip.


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## KEN W

Why hasn't the Clown Prince put the military to use in hot spots where facilities and medical personnel are needed. They know how and what to do. Once again he has proven he should not have this job. Time to wake up Trump!!! This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better with this buffoon in charge. Get the military off the bases and to the front lines. It's going to get scary before it gets better.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Why hasn't the Clown Prince put the military to use in hot spots where facilities and medical personnel are needed. They know how and what to do. Once again he has proven he should not have this job. Time to wake up Trump!!! This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better with this buffoon in charge. Get the military off the bases and to the front lines. It's going to get scary before it gets better.


and if he does the libs will complain.


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## Canuck

Paging Doctor Trump....Doctor Trump to the ER....Paging Dr. Trump oke:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...ised-drug/ar-BB11wxMQ?li=AAggNb9&ocid=U142DHP

The president doubled down on Saturday, telling his Twitter followers that hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin "taken together" could be "one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine." He urged they "be put in use IMMEDIATELY."


----------



## Plainsman

Actually they have already used it and all patients survived. This drug has been on the market for what 50 years? It's just that we have never had this virus so of course it could never be tested against it. The head of the CDC had to explain to the mentally challenged media that he and Trump did not disagree, but that they had different perspectives. He explained that because it's working Trump wants to use it and he as a scientist wants it tested and data. Trump wants to use it while the tests run so people don't have to die waiting for the libs to approve after testing. Every lib *****ing if he was dying would be screaming for it the hypocrites. It would appear they are willing to let people die so they can critic Trump. How sick is that?

Oh, by the way a patient that was so gone they considered him dead was given this medicine and survived. Because of it they nick named him Lazarus.

I sincerely hope you fellows on the left don't let your hate consume you.


----------



## KEN W

Plainsman......you are describing conservatives.....have to be conservative before it can be released. After all that"s what conservative means. 
Definition, Conservative......holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation.

The hate is on the right. Just read all the posts about how bad the people on the left are. They aren't right or wrong.....just different.

Trump......"We are at war." :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## north1

Canuck said:


> Paging Doctor Trump....Doctor Trump to the ER....Paging Dr. Trump oke:
> 
> https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...ised-drug/ar-BB11wxMQ?li=AAggNb9&ocid=U142DHP
> 
> The president doubled down on Saturday, telling his Twitter followers that hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin "taken together" could be "one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine." He urged they "be put in use IMMEDIATELY."


Come on. Seriously. TWO people in Nigeria self medicate and overdose and it's our presidents fault? His fault because it has shown promise and is recommended by many people with MD and PHD by their name. Recommended by countries who have used it. A piece from the warped, twisted partisan hack Bloomberg MSM no less.

If our president single handily cured it tomorrow he would be chastised for not doing it sooner. Though he is far from perfect I have come to realize their are those that will chastise and call him every name in the book regardless of anything he does. This world has turned too bat crap crazy for this hombre. Life is just too short to waste it arguing.


----------



## KEN W

How about your Trump the Liar......Here are just a few of the 33 between March 2 and the 15th.... He has lied so much the past 3 years that he hopes people will believe anything he says. His nose gets longer every day.

"Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That's what the bottom line is."

"This is a very contagious -- this is a very contagious virus. It's incredible. But it's something that we have tremendous control of."

Again....."Anybody that wants a test can get a test. That's what the bottom line is." And: "Anybody right now and yesterday - anybody that needs a test gets a test. We - they're there. They have the tests. And the tests are beautiful. Anybody that needs a test gets a test."

"Gallup just gave us the highest rating ever for the way we are handling the CoronaVirus situation." -- March 5 tweet

"Our response is one of the best, with fast action of border closings & a 78% Approval Rating, the highest on record." -- March 12 tweet :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

"We have very low numbers compared to major countries throughout the world. Our numbers are lower than just about anybody."


----------



## north1

New York governor Cuomo praised Trumps Covid19 response and agreed with Trump about trying chloroquine for Covid19 treatment. Where is your Joe Biden? What would he do different? He has been in hiding during most all of this. He doesn't even have enough left upstairs to know what is happening. Last I saw him he had a vacant stare on his face and his wife had to escort him off a stage because he didn't know what was going on around him. Talk about a disaster.


----------



## KEN W

Sorry....he holds N O public office.....At least the governors know what is going on. Not the Clown Prince. He makes it up as he goes along.....To bad most is Bull. He just couldn't get enough attention. So The dummy talked about himself for a half hour tonight. The idiot needs to Shut up and let Pense do his job. At least Pense seems to know what is going on.


----------



## Canuck

Pence's "job" here is to be the fall guy that Trump throws under the bus when needed.

I can hear him now "I really didn't know Pence that well really"


----------



## Plainsman

I think the Tump Derangment Syndrom is destroying all reason. Trump cut off Travel to China to early because he is racist, followed by nearly in the same breath, Trump didn't take this serious enough and should have cut travel to China earlier.

Remember during the Russian collusion investigstion you guys posted all the "we got him now" stories. I remember you being wrong every single time. What makes you think your right now? Arm chair presidents without even 20/20 hindsight. My only point is that it's hard to be convinced of anything by people batting 0.

Did you notice the democrats will not pass the funding to fight Corona because their was no bailout for the infanticide group family unplanning. EVIL!


----------



## Plainsman

When you talk to a Democrat about the second amendment the politician will lie to your face and say they support it. The on the street democrat today is so partisan they will believe them. They are in a state of denial. Abortion and gay marriage Trumps everything for them.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-con ... xt?r=1&s=1


----------



## KEN W

Canuck said:


> Pence's "job" here is to be the fall guy that Trump throws under the bus when needed.
> 
> I can hear him now "I really didn't know Pence that well really"


 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: .....Dead on.


----------



## KEN W

Sorry, but Dems don't support that bill because most of it goes to big companies so CEO's can get big payments......just like their tax bill. No way can any Senator who works for the little guy support it. More needs to go to the common laborers. Not all Dems are baby killers. I AM NOT a baby killer, and I am a lifelong Democrat.

Like I have said MANY times.....Republican Conservatives equals...."I got mine, Screw you and keep on screwing you." uke: uke: uke:


----------



## Chuck Smith

So you want to know what else some elected officials are wanting to add into the relief bill...

1. collective bargaining powers for unions
2. Increase fuel emission standards for airlines
3. expansion of wind and solar tax credits

Do these things have anything to do with this virus.... NO!!!

So who are the people not taking this seriously.... who are the ones trying to make the president look bad.... who are the ones dragging their feet on getting money to the people.... who are the ones trying to make it difficult to get along in these trying times....

I will tell you this... it isn't Republicans.... Pelosi and Schummer.

Here is a quote "This is a tremendous opportunity to restructure things to fit our vision," Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) told lawmakers, according to a source on the call."


----------



## KEN W

Have you watched the press briefings by Trump? No need to make him look bad. He does that very well by himself. I just watch Pense grimace every time he spouts a non truth. He appointed Pense to lead the committee. So shut up and let him do his job.

The Clown Prince needs to Quarantine himself in the WH for the rest of this pandemic.We would be a lot better off with Pense.

As for adding things to a bill....this happens all the time by BOTH parties. just have to work on getting them out. Again.....both parties.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken...

You are correct about Trump should just shut up. But his ego wont let him.

You are correct on normal bills both parties do this. BUT NOT IN A CRITICAL MOMENT or EMERGENCY BILLS. This is just happening by the Dem's. Other emergency bills in the past never had this type of stuff happening. All of the times Obama, Bush, etc. All wanted emergency funding stuff they passed... CLEAN. These bills haven't. It is all because they want Trump to look bad and want to push for the election coming up.

Why are Pelosi and Schummer "stragegizing".... These should be clean bills not things pushed or thrown in by a caucus. If one rogue Senator or House member does it... I will let it slide a little. But these are coming from the TOP DOWN. That is the issue. So we will just have to see what Pelosi comes out with for her bill this afternoon. But this is pure BS going on.

I know you stated about these things only help the "big guys" or "CEO's".... you are wrong. The new stuff thrown in will hurt the small business's trying to get loans thru the stimulus if they don't "follow the guidelines" of the stuff they are throwing in. It is hurting more small business than the "big guys". Trust me I am a small business owner and have been looking at the stuff coming out. I am not hurt yet by any of this.... but always keep looking at options if I need to.

EDIT: Just read on twitter from Rep. Crenshaw (TX) about the big guys or CEO in the bill.... It states in the bill.... PROHIBITS PAYING CEO'S PAY INCREASES AND STOCK BUY BACKS. So what you are saying and the media reporting is 100% false. Interesting isn't it.... oke:


----------



## Chuck Smith

So.... you want to know some of the stuff in Pelosi's bill.... ALL THE WHILE HER STATE IS GETTING HIT HARD....

1. Risk limiting audits of elections
2. Bails out the post office
3. Pay equity by race (which already exists to certain extents because of discrimination laws)
4. Corporate Board diversity
5. Early voting
6. Same day voter registration (seems to make it easier to cheat in an election... oke: )
7. Federal employee collective bargaining
8. Airline carbon emission
9. Consumer info regaurding carbon emmisions by airlines
10. Minimun funding to community news papers
11. Planned Parent Hood funding
etc...

So who is really hurting us during this outbreak and who is really working to get it under control and help the people getting hurt financially...&#8230;

THIS IS THE LEADERSHIP OF THE DEM PARTY.... again.... please tell me how this is going to turn out.

I will get my crystal ball and tell you. The Republicans will reject this bill and all the Dem's and leadership and Media will come out screaming how the Republicans only care about the "Rich" and don't care about the people. Then they will kick and scream about Trump, Mitch, etc. So who really is not doing their job during all of this outbreak.... oke: oke:


----------



## Chuck Smith

Also I am not pointing blame at all on this one. But just getting facts out there.

Biden is screaming and shouting that Trump isn't doing enough and failing the US citizens. The Asian Flu issue that was under Obama/Biden's watch used up a surplus of masks that were available. They never "re ordered" those to be restocked.

So again I am not saying it is Obama/Biden's fault about this. But before Biden kicks and screams about Trump... Look in the mirror himself. They didn't help restock what they took. Hence possibly giving the "shortage" that is going on. If they would have restocked we would be in better shape than now. But again... It is our process that hurts all of this.

I just wanted to pass info on.... so again... Biden shouldn't be pointing the finger on "shortages" when his administration he was apart of was also part of the problem we face now.


----------



## KEN W

Chuck......you don't agree with any of those things listed?

I mostly agree with some of these. Of course I would have to see exactly how it is worded.

1.....not sure what this does
2....do we really want the PO to go under?

Agree with 4,5,6,7.8.9


----------



## KEN W

Chuck.....you don't agree with any of these?

Should they be attached to a funding bill? Like I said before, They all have the attitude of ...."you want something, I want something to vote for what you want."

I agree with some of these.

1. Not sure what this would do.
2. You want the PO to go under?
w/o looking more closely at these .....I agree with 4,5,6,7,8.9.10


----------



## speckline

I have no problem with dumbocraps bringing this shiite up, only NOT IN THIS BILL!!!
This is an emergency stimulus bill, NOT STATUS QUO BILL TO ADD PORK TO!!!!!
TERM LIMITS!
The f'n government is totally shutting down all commerce in may states, congress needs to DO THEIR JOB!


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken...

THis bill isn't the time or place to deal with those things. THAT IS THE ISSUE!!!

Remember... Trump isn't doing enough... yet a bipartisan bill was introduced then rail roaded by Schummer and Pelosi.

Also with some of those things.... NO I DONT AGREE WITH.

The corporate diversity... this will mean even in any corporate structure you will have to abide by the rules. If a small company of 50 employees and they have a board... they will have to abide by the rules... YET THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE ANYONE WHO FITS THE CRITERIA.

Carbon emissions by airlines.... THEY ARE ALREADY GETTING REGULATED

Same day registration.... NOPE.. THAT WILL EQUAL MORE VOTER FRAUD.

Early voting.... NOPE... Same with voter fraud and also could sway elections. It is the same issue I have with early reporting by the news. If one canidate has X number of votes it could sway people not to vote because they think it is over.

So there is lots of stuff that shouldn't be in the bill that I disagree with unless the language is really spelled out clearly. WHICH IT ISNT. This is all a political move by Pelosi and Schummer. That is it period. :bop:

Also the states shutting things down.... It is good and bad.

It is good because hopefully it will slow down all of this stuff...ie: spread.

It is bad because it is hurting the economy and businesses. It will take months and even years if places are shut down over a month. :bop:

Also if you want to see what socialism looks like.... THIS IS IT. oke:


----------



## Plainsman

Chuck wrote:


> You are correct on normal bills both parties do this. BUT NOT IN A CRITICAL MOMENT or EMERGENCY BILLS.


Ken responded:


> Should they be attached to a funding bill? Like I said before, They all have the attitude of ...."you want something, I want something to vote for what you want."


You said the same thing to begin with Ken, but as Chuck pointed out in the past the Congress has not done this with emergency Bill's. I guess playing wit lives, playing with small business , endangering our economy and our nation doesn't bother democrats. 
We are responsible who we vote for. You can say you don't support abortion, but when you vote for someone who does the blood is on your hands. Abortion and second amendment make it impossible for me to vote for a democrat.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Guess what else is on Pelosi's bill...

Limiting ICE and Border Patrol.... uke: 
$15 minimum wage

Climate change study funding
Airlines spending money on emmissions offset and not employees who are laid off work... oke:

Wind mill and solar tax credits.... THEY ALREADY HAVE THEM.... oke: BTW who can afford to put up solar and windmills... THE RICH.... oke:

Extending nonimmigration work visa..... this is a yes and no from me because it depends on the type of visa.... if it is work/student... Im ok with it... but others... NOPE.

Also on the mail in or "early voting".... you don't need to have identification.... HMMMMMM.... VOTER FRAUD... :bop:

Remember by adding these things and blocking this bill...

They are against:
Providing payroll and rents to small businesses
Providing loan programs and credits for small businesses to stay afloat
providing unemployment benefits to people laid off because of this


----------



## KEN W

You guys won't change my mind and I won't change yours. :eyeroll:

Back to the corona virus....Someone asked Dr. Fauci why he isn't trying to make the Trump listen to real facts about the pandemic. Here is his reply....

" What do you want me to do? I mean seriously, let's get real, what do you want me to do?.....I can't jump in front of the microphone." 
He won't last much longer.....The idiot in the WH dismisses anyone who even remotely disagrees with him. As I said before just watch him and Pence react when the dummy tells another falsehood.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken...

All of what I typed is about the virus and how the DEM's are not taking the relief seriously.

They want to see the markets to keep crashing because that is the only way they have a snowball chance in hell to win the election come November.

I also agree with what the Dr. stated about Trump. he needs to shut his mouth and let others talk.

But like mentioned about the drugs that trump is "toting" as the cure. The doctor just wants more studies on it before he rolls it out. Where Trump wants to give it to people and do the "study" as it goes. Which isn't the correct way to do it at all.

Trump wants instant fixes which there isn't one for this. Also his Ego wants him to be the "greatest"... which we all know he isn't. :thumb:


----------



## Plainsman

> But like mentioned about the drugs that trump is "toting" as the cure. The doctor just wants more studies on it before he rolls it out. Where Trump wants to give it to people and do the "study" as it goes. Which isn't the correct way to do it at all.


The drug is already approved so they can use it with little danger. I forget what the drug was developed for, malaria I think.

Oh the things Pelosi is trying to put in are part of the Green New Deal.

I feel like I am in the twilight zone because NBC is blaming the democrats for failure of the bill passing. Ken didn't NBC call you about this before they released it. :rollin:


----------



## Plainsman

Some posts disappeared what's with that. Ken had a post where he mentioned the republicans tried to add anti abortion Hyde language to the bill before congress to help people. Then I responded, but both posts are gone???????

I did a quick google and it looks like some republicans proposed that, but it was never put in the bill like Pelosis poison pills. With NBC telling people it's the democrats fault this bill did not pass will put the blame squarely on them with the public.


----------



## TKincaid

40 Republicans also Voted NO on the bill.
It was a garbage bill, gave taxpayer debt money to CEOs that mismanaged it to buy back shares and enrich themselves among other nonsense.
Both parties are largely criminal entities..


----------



## KEN W

Don't know where they went. Oh well.


----------



## huntin1

The Dems don't want an economic stimulus bill to pass because it will stimulate the economy. Can't have that, might make Trump look good. They want the economy in the ****ter, they believe it's the only way they're going to beat him in November.


----------



## KEN W

Not


----------



## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Don't know where they went. Oh well.


 :thumb:

A couple years ago I was going to quote a post. In a hurry I clicked on edit instead of quote. Not noticing I wrote what I wanted to then noticed what I had done. I thought oh no the person will not be happy so I clicked delete not thinking . That time I screwed up royaly.


----------



## Plainsman

huntin1 said:


> The Dems don't want an economic stimulus bill to pass because it will stimulate the economy. Can't have that, might make Trump look good. They want the economy in the ****ter, they believe it's the only way they're going to beat him in November.


They would sacrifice the economy and 100 million dead to get the presidency back. Those who believe the climate change would be ecstatic with half the world population dead. Maybe that's why 60 + million dead babies is a good thing in their mind.

Dr Oz is on FOX and says the drug that Trump has hope for has been in use for 70 years safely. A guy self medicating today killed himself with it. Watch the liberals focus on that.


----------



## Chuck Smith

https://freebeacon.com/politics/house-d ... ent-a-win/

Here is a couple months old article and it talks about how some Dem's wont vote for good legislation because they don't want to give the president a "Win".

I would call out any republican on this same exact thing. Like I have mentioned over and over. Congress isn't for the people anymore they are for only their party. But none of them realize that no matter what party they belong to they are in the minority. About 40% of the country leans left, 40% of the country leans right and you have 20% in the middle. Are any of those percentages a majority?? NOPE.... so go work for all of the people not just a minority percentage of the population. :bop:


----------



## Chuck Smith

> A guy self medicating today killed himself with it. Watch the liberals focus on that.


Already happening. A "journalist from NBC" is blaming Trump. But you know what the guy and his wife actually took.... FISH TANK CLEANER not the prescribed drug. But yet they wont report on that fact. They just go off on how Trump and others have been "toting" the malaria drug.

Like I have stated over and over.... the Media is a huge enemy of the people. Because they don't report facts. :bop:

ABC did report the facts.... People or journalist on twitter are not.... oke:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/man-die ... itter_abcn


----------



## TKincaid

$323 Billion of Pork on the bill......They need to do better.


----------



## Plainsman

Every time I think about Pelosi the lyrics to an old song comes to mind.



> Evil grows in the dark
> Where the sun, it never shines.
> Evil grows in cracks and holes
> And lives in people's minds.





> Like I have stated over and over.... the Media is a huge enemy of the people. Because they don't report facts.


I don't know if our politicians or media will ever grasp integrity ever again. Truth has become the victim. The democrats that repeat the media lies also stick a knife in truth. Have we all lost integrity? I am disappointed every time I hear a lie repeated.

I was talking with my son about religion one day. He had been listening to an interesting perspective. A fellow asked if he was Satan how would he take over the world. The fellow said he would close every bar, strip joint, porn site, and encourage everyone to go to church. Then he would lead them astray through false teaching by teaching what their itching ears want to hear. That reminds me of the old ELCA church I left about eight years ago. 
Check this out and you will see what I am talking about: https://www.exposingtheelca.com/


----------



## Plainsman

TKincaid said:


> $323 Billion of Pork on the bill......They need to do better.


 Democrat or Republican pork it should all go.


----------



## Chuck Smith

So you don't think the media is playing a huge roll in all of this BS.

I just read an article in the NYT that states the Dr. Fauci and Trump are at odds.... or Trump is growing Frustrated by the Dr. This was all quoted by an "aide".... so no direct quotes from either Trump or the Dr. Or an confirmed source... it is an anonymous source.

But then I read a direct quote from the Dr. on his twitter account stating.... THE MEDIA NEEDS TO STOP TRYING TO PORTRAY A FRIF BETWEEN ME AND THE PRESIDENT.

HMMMMMMMMMM..... so is the media helping this?

Also did you know CNN and MSNBC are not showing the briefings by the president in its full? Or not even showing them at all. WHY WOULD A NEWS OUTLET DO THIS IN A TIME OF NEED?????

Sorry my rant on the media for the day. oke:


----------



## Plainsman

> A guy self medicating today killed himself with it. Watch the liberals focus on that.





> Already happening. A "journalist from NBC" is blaming Trump.


More fake news. It turns out the guy and his wife took aquarium sterilant.



> So you don't think the media is playing a huge roll in all of this BS.


 Absolutely. I have watched many of Trumps briefings. It's a shame that most of the questions are designed to drive a wedge between Trump and his people. Sick puppies. The confusing thing is how people can be so partisan as to pretend to believe it. I do not believe they are that stupid. Remember the old story about the boy who cried wolf three times and the third time no one believed him? Our media must be on what hundreds of crying wolf and proven liars? No one can make me believe these sick people care about any life other than their own.


----------



## TKincaid

He owns this.
Trump allowed direct flights from Wuhan 3 weeks AFTER China had closed off all travel to that province.
Yes, I voted for him. Today I realize he is a buffoon.


----------



## TKincaid

The former head of the CDC is seriously upset about Trump's public health cuts

Tom Frieden says Trump's budget is "unsafe at any level of enactment." 
By Julia [email protected]@voxmedia.com May 24, 2017, 11:45am EDT

The president's latest budget request, which he sent to Congress on Tuesday, would excise $1.2 billion from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That's nearly one-fifth of the total budget for the nation's public health authority, part of a series of non-defense cuts that are meant to balance hikes in military spending.

The ask was enough to rile former CDC Director Tom Frieden, who fired off a series of uncharacteristically charged tweets last night warning that the Trump administration's budget "risks Americans' health and safety":


----------



## KEN W

And their are to many people who want to re-elect this Clown for another 4 years so he can ruin our country even more. I guess his stupid wall was more important than our countrys health. Now look who is paying for this idiocy . :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## speckline

Here's why
https://freebeacon.com/satire/biden-proof-of-life/
The dumbocraps buffoon of choice, sleepy quid pro quo joe, can't even read a teleprompter.
His mind is GONE! He needs a rest home.


----------



## huntin1

More fake news. The CDC's budget was never cut, in fact it was increased $420 million for fiscal 2020. Congress passed it and Trump signed it.


----------



## speckline

No question..

U.S. most prepared nation for this virus

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-was ... nd-in-2019

:bop:


----------



## KEN W

huntin1 said:


> More fake news. The CDC's budget was never cut, in fact it was increased $420 million for fiscal 2020. Congress passed it and Trump signed it.


Fake news????? this was Trumps proposed budget for 2020. Good thing that the idiot didn't get what he wanted. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

"Trump released his fiscal year 2020 federal budget proposal in March, recommending huge cuts across the federal government, including a 12 percent cut to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and a 10 percent cut for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

"At CDC, a reduction of that magnitude equates to a $750 million spending cut over fiscal year 2019. APHA member John Auerbach, MBA, president and CEO of Trust for America's Health, said the proposed CDC cuts not only threaten federal public health capacity, they would have a "devastating" impact on state and local public health departments, which depend heavily on CDC dollars flowing down to the community level."

"Among its proposals for CDC, the White House budget calls for a more than $236 million cut to chronic disease prevention and health promotion, a $146 million cut for the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, a more than $102 million cut to emerging and zoonotic diseases, and about a $52 million cut to CDC's environmental health activities, including funding for asthma and childhood lead poisoning.


----------



## Plainsman

> Among its proposals for CDC, the White House budget calls for a more than $236 million cut to chronic disease prevention and health promotion, a $146 million cut for the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, a more than $102 million cut to emerging and zoonotic diseases, and about a $52 million cut to CDC's environmental health activities, including funding for asthma and childhood lead poisoning.


 Ken you didn't get this information from where you get all your other wrong gotcha information did you?  oke:


----------



## huntin1

> Fake news????? this was Trumps proposed budget for 2020.


Exactly, PROPOSED, every President makes proposed budgets every year attempting to balance the budget. Cutting programs here and adding to others. Doesn't mean that it will happen, it has to be hashed out in Congress. Your clown prince, Obummer did the same thing, and many of his cuts were also shot down durning the budget process.

What is fake news, or maybe a better phrase would be false sensationalism, is that covid 19 is so bad in the US because Trump cut funding to the CDC. If you open your eyes you'll see that many major "news" outlets have said, or are continuing to say stuff like this. It's total BS.


----------



## KEN W

Nope.....just went to google and asked for Trumps budget cuts for the CDC for 2020. At least it wasn't from your typical copy and paste stuff. like Drudge and Fox. oke:  

That info was for 2020 proposals made last March. Not surprisingly here is the DUMMY'S proposal for 2021. Like I said before.....our country can't afford another 4 years of this idiot. Luckily our Congress put the breaks on his buffoonery.

"The president introduced his fiscal year 2021 budget proposal on Feb. 10, just 11 days after the World Health Organization declared the coronavirus outbreak a public health emergency of international concerns. The spending plan included a 16 percent reduction in CDC funding from the 2020 spending levels."

"In fact, all of Trump's budget proposals have called for cuts to CDC funding, but Congress has intervened each time by passing spending bills with year-over-year increases for the CDC."

Can't help it if you guys continue to believe he is good for our country. My eyes are wide open.....Conservatives have continued to be blinded by this Carni Barker straight from P. T. Barnums Circus.


----------



## KEN W

Senate finally puts politics aside and passes the stimulus package. Hope this helps keep the country afloat until this pandemic is behind us. Should see stock market start to rebound.


----------



## KEN W

Thought this was worth repeating. From the other thread..... this is so true right now....


----------



## Chuck Smith

The Gov. Of Nevada just issued an order banning the anti-malaria drugs Trump has been talking about....

WHY????

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/nevada-go ... cebook_app

I know it states in the article that nobody is saying this is the "cure" for this. But they also don't know for sure either. So why is he banning this drug? He should have it on hand to see if it works.... give it in low doses, etc. Wouldn't you want all medicine available if you have the virus.


----------



## KEN W

The governor's order prohibits the prescribing and dispensing chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for a COVID-19 diagnosis, requires the appropriate prescription coding for their "legitimate medical purposes," and limits prescriptions to a 30-day supply.

"At this point in time, there is no known cure for COVID-19 and we must not withhold these drugs from those who need them," the governor said in a statement. "The best way to prevent the spread of COVID-19 is to stay home for Nevada, not to stockpile these drugs."

Doesn't want the drug to disappear because of binge buying by people. Even though it is not proven to be a cure.


----------



## Canuck

Gee, maybe Canada is crazy!
The government's $82B aid/stimulus package announced today includes funds for journalists and the media.
Here in Canada they are important tools to provide information to the people.
Go figure.


----------



## huntin1

Canuck said:


> Gee, maybe Canada is crazy!
> The government's $82B aid/stimulus package announced today includes funds for journalists and the media.
> Here in Canada they are important tools to provide information to the people.
> Go figure.


They would be here as well, *IF* they would still present facts like they used to.


----------



## Canuck

In this day and age with so much video news and people carrying cameras you would think it would be easier for people to get the news, see the news and hear the exact words coming out of peoples mouths allowing them to easily make up their own minds.

Last night I got an extended chance to watch FOX News. I don't get them normally. Usually I watch CBC, BBC and every now and then CNN

Holy cow the Fox correspondents I saw sure had their tinfoil hats on tight.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken....

The 30 day thing is a good idea... but it is prescribed. He isn't allowing Dr. to prescribe it unless it is only for MALARIA.... he wont let the people try it to possibly help with the virus.

That is the issue I have.

Also just wait for the over correction going to happen in MN. The city of Rochester just "asked" the Gov. to shut down the state like Wisconsin did. Even though we have about 200 less cases than them. We have had 122 of the 287 cases now out of quarantine.... and we have done over 11000 tests. Now the only thing I am not sure on 100% is if those 11000 tests completed have the results back or not. Because if they do have the results back that means that MN has about a 2.5% "infection" rate where the world rate is at 5%. SO we are bucking the trend.

WI has had 8694 tests and 457 infected... they are at about a 5.5% rate.

MN doesn't need to over correct when our trends are steady and staying the same. Only real spike was over the weekend when it shot up from 180's to 230's.... But that is because in Rochester they opened up 2 or 3 "drive" up testing places and also Mayo has helped to "catch up" on the back logged test to get the results back.

Again I say take this serious in all matters.... but why hurt the local economy more than they have too by having a "shut down". I heard out Gov. talk the other day that if he does the shut down he will do it for a for weeks or even months. Then in the same breath he stated he needs to think about that 75 year old widow at home alone and if the furnace goes out they are screwed. Nobody will come to help them because that is considered "non essential". Also our governor was ahead of the curve by shutting down the hair salons, work out centers, events, etc than other states. But we will see what he says at his news conference today.


----------



## Plainsman

> The Gov. Of Nevada just issued an order banning the anti-malaria drugs Trump has been talking about....


That's sick in the head. If your on your death bed it should be your decision not the doctor, and certainly not people with Trump Derangement Syndrome.


> At this point in time, there is no known cure for COVID-19 and we must not withhold these drugs from those who need them


Does he even have a clue? Ken do you know hi ow easy it is to make that drug? Did you know that the components are readily available and your local pharmacy can make it?

I understand busy body socialists from other countries not giving a crap about our citizens. but Ken would you actually withhold it because Trump recommended using it? :eyeroll:


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## KEN W

No I wouldn't. But I would have to look into the circumstances more than reading a couple lines in a notice like that. I would be concerned about hoarding before more evidence of it being effective was found. I have seen more that a couple people that bought out things needed then setting up and price gouging. Sometimes it is best to do what the governor did to keep that from happening.


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

With the prescription drugs now it is hard to "hoard". Some states have systems in place that if you buy your prescription on day 1 and it gets entered into a computer network. You cant fill it until day 25 or 30. So you cant go from pharmacy to pharmacy and clean them out.

Remember this malaria drug is prescribed.

This type of network has been put in places because of the opiod addiction. Now it is just up to the pharmacy to follow suit on them. That is why Herion/fentanyal made such a strong come back because the pharmacy's were keeping or trying to keep the OXY off the streets. That is why more is coming across the border than ever. But that is a totally different topic.


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## KEN W

Governors move to protect supplies

North Dakota is considering taking similar steps, either through an executive order via the governor's office or by the state pharmacy board imposing emergency rules, said Mark Hardy, executive director of the North Dakota Board of Pharmacy.

However, news accounts of the potential benefits of hydroxychloroquine in battling coronavirus have reportedly prompted some doctors in the country to hoard such medications by writing prescriptions for themselves and family members.

"We put out guides to our pharmacies, making sure they are using prudent choices as far as their dispensing (of hydroxychloroquine) and ensuring that it is for a legitimate purpose and making sure there is that supply for people who are on the medication for maintenance therapy," he added


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## Chuck Smith

> However, news accounts of the potential benefits of hydroxychloroquine in battling coronavirus have reportedly prompted some doctors in the country to hoard such medications by writing prescriptions for themselves and family members.


So people are CHEATING the system. People are doing illegal things. Writing prescriptions when they are not warranted is illegal. That is how Doctors were getting in trouble for OXY. It was and is the fear with medical pot as well.

Did you see the FDA is saying that the malaria drug is "approved" for emergency situations now.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... ity-video/

This article talks about how CBS used footage from a Hospital in ITALY saying it was in NY. Tell me again how the media isn't the problem... uke: uke: uke: oke:

Edit:

Another one..... Rachel Maddow last week was going off on how no naval ship will be in NYC by "next week" and went on a TDS rant about Trump and others... .yet today what showed up in the NYC harbor..... A naval ship with 1000 icu beds. So really please tell me again how the media isn't a problem with reporting???? oke: oke: oke:


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## Chuck Smith

So Pelosi wasn't going to pas the bill unless the Kennedy Center got funding... they agreed on $25 million. Well today it was announced that the Kennedy center is laying off all the musicians. Even after the grant of $25 million. Interesting and should not funding for that center be cut next year???

It is the same principle of the "bail outs" of the companies that laid off people after they were given government funding. Nancy was kicking and screaming about that during this last Corona Virus bill..... yet something she pushed and pushed and held up the funding for about a week just did the exact same thing.

I am just typing this to show the hypocrisy of Pelosi.

I for one agree that if someone gets "bailed out" or money... they shouldn't have lay offs. The money is given to avoid them. :thumb:


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## Plainsman

Yes Chuck and only yesterday Maddow said saying no ships were on there way and never would be. One or two were already in LA. Today the third ship docked in New York.

What the media does not say is as telling. Recently the Food and Drug Administration approved the use of the malaria drug for use against the Corona V. One would even wonder about google and whoever influences what gets to the internet. As I type my comments they auto blocked and deleted. This is my fifth or sixth try. Today one suspects everyone.

One thing that makes me trust Trump is the constant attack by the media. When not sure about someone based on what they say and do look at their enemies. We know the media is the enemy, so when they hate Trump I like him. When Pelosi hates Trump I like him. Following that when people hate Trump I become suspicious of them. Only a simple exercise of logic.


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## Chuck Smith

I don't know if this is true or not....

But been reading it on Twitter.... so take this with a grain of salt... but keep an eye on it.

NYC all of a sudden found 20,000 or so ventilators after Barr or the DOJ announced going after people hoarding medical supplies..... HMMMMMMMMM

Also Cumo talked about how Hospital staff were stealing cases of masks, gloves, etc as fast as they were coming in.

Again how is this the Presidents problem... they are producing equipment yet they are getting stolen.

It is reminding me of the supplies sent to Puerto Rico and the Govener down there stated TRUMP WASNT DOING ENOUGH... yet they are now finding warehouses full of FEMA and other Supplies sent down there and were Hoarded or hidden.... HMMMMMMM

Again I don't know for sure about the ventilators in NYC... but it is something to keep an eye out. Yet I know your normal media sources wont be covering this if it is true. oke:

The media is reporting that Cumo might be making a run for the nomination of the Dem party. So is he trying to make Trump look bad for a win? I hope not.... but is something to keep an eye on.


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## Chuck Smith

I am also not trying to place blame on this one... just food for thought.

If people say TRUMP FAILED on this whole virus thing. The same day Trump formed the Virus Task Force was the same day Pelosi was handing out her "impeachment pens".

Who took it seriously and who didn't.... remember this come fall. oke:

Who also was ready to sign a bill and who added pork to it.... come this fall.... oke:

I will even say this..... remember who called for an in person vote on the bill come this fall. (BTW IT WAS A REPUBLICAN).... oke:


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## Plainsman

> NYC all of a sudden found 20,000 or so ventilators after Barr or the DOJ announced going after people hoarding medical supplies..... HMMMMMMMMM


I forgot to mention it, but yes a couple days ago I heard New York found ventilators they didn't know they had. Deception or stupidity are the only choices here.

Only a short time ago Cuomo was praising Trump for all the help and how well they were working together. Then his approval numbers begin to climb, and his ego started running his brain. Now all of a sudden he turned on a dime and is complaining about Trump. That tells me all I want to know about Cuomo. I had admired him telling the truth and appearing to be doing a good job. I gave him the benefit of the doubt even though I know he is liberal and anti gun. Now he shows his true color. I'm disappointed with myself for even thinking a liberal was better than this.


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## Chuck Smith

I found an article where Cumo talked about the "stockpile" of ventilators.

He said something along the lines of yes we have a stock pile but we don't need them yet. That is why they haven't been distributed. Then he complained about needing more. In the same article it talked about how Pence sent him 2000 over the weekend and will be sending another 2000 more weds. I hope he will distribute them if other places start to need them before NYC.

That is where I will give the Gov. of MN some credit. He talked about not waiting for Fed help and he talked to private companies about making them and ICU beds. He is trying to get ahead if the need arises. He isn't complaining like Cumo. Who even admitted that they have a stock pile sitting there.... yet keeps complaining they need more. It is like the kid who hasn't eaten everything on his plate yet wants more food.

Again I don't want to down play the situation in NYC because it seems to be getting worse. But they don't need the ventilators that are in stock pile as of now. Which is 20,000 or so. I also know that when you need them it is too late. So I am glad he is having them ready to go. But he doesn't need to complain and say the President isn't doing his job. When infact he is doing it and distributing the ventilators around to every state. It just shows you that Cumo things NY is better than the rest. Remember Louisiana is now predicting to become a huge hot bed in the coming days/weeks.... so shouldn't they be getting supplies ASAP as well.... not just NYC... :beer:


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## Chuck Smith

Another "blame game" type thing....

The media is attacking Trump now for when back in Feb he was saying the infected number will be 0 or what ever they are going after him about. Back in Feb. Pelosi was telling people to go out and gather and what not.

So again.... Trump and other elected officials were doing the same things. So don't just blame one side when all of them are guilty. But again you wont see anything in the media talking about Pelosi... only they will regurgitate things Trump says and even twist them. Like they are twisting his "HOPE" by easter comments and saying that he said "will open". Two different things completely.

Again.... my rant on the media. I am sure I will have more and more tomorrow and next few days. oke:


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## Plainsman

> they are twisting his "HOPE" by easter comments and saying that he said "will open". Two different things completely.


That is one of my pet peeves. That and the HOAX claim. If they could prove in front of a jury members of the media are trying to slow out progress fighting the virus they should get at least ten years in prison. I actually wish they could prove treason and give them life. That would stop this crap fast.


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## Chuck Smith

The media and other elected officials are doing that.

Look at Pelosi's claim of.... "The president fiddles his thumbs while people die".... REMEMBER SHE HELD UP THE LAST BILL FOR DAYS.... also she held out for 25 Million to the center that just fired employees (the orchestra)&#8230; BTW I read on twitter... so take it with a grain of salt... and it is coming from OAN... again take it with a bigger grain of salt. But they have a recorded phone call about the whole Kennedy Center issue and how they talked with "elected officals" to get the funding even though they knew they would fire people. This will be interesting if true... but again it is OAN. So is a 50/50 chance.

But some stuff to think about. Especially when I read that they might be doing another "funding" bill.


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## Chuck Smith

Another topic that will soon be bashing Trump by the media and others....(Maxine Waters is doing it now)..

Trump sent supplies and stuff to China to help fight the virus. Now she is going after him for doing so. When it broke out all you heard about is "we need to help china" and what not. Just wait... it will be the next media talking point and questioning by the "reporters" towards Trump. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Trump Vs Media....

I am glad he is standing up to the media. It is getting stupid how they always try to twist his words to get a "gotcha" question... that isn't journalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQFZdaC ... e=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnQhTy6 ... e=youtu.be

I am glad he is standing up to them. I am on the fence about how 'Hostile" he is towards them. But given 3 years of taking this type of questioning and especially during a trying time in the country. The reporters need not be this way. They should report and report accurately. Not try to push division and promote "scare".

So this is my rant so far on the media today. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Another little rant about the media....

They are going off on the "my pillow" guy and Trump as well. All because the guy reference GOD in his speech. The media is also going off on the "my pillow" guy asking how/why did he get invited to speak at the podium.

WHO CARES.... the guy retooled his factory or 75% of it to make masks for hospitals. He isn't laying off anyone and odds are will hire more people. YET THE MEDIA is going off on this guy and other things. This shows you how some people in journalism are complete frauds and are hurting the country more than helping.


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## Plainsman

Chuck Smith said:


> Another little rant about the media....
> 
> They are going off on the "my pillow" guy and Trump as well. All because the guy reference GOD in his speech. The media is also going off on the "my pillow" guy asking how/why did he get invited to speak at the podium.
> 
> WHO CARES.... the guy retooled his factory or 75% of it to make masks for hospitals. He isn't laying off anyone and odds are will hire more people. YET THE MEDIA is going off on this guy and other things. This shows you how some people in journalism are complete frauds and are hurting the country more than helping.


That's because the sewer rat liberals hate God.

Edit: I don't want to read everything again so if this has already been reported sorry. Anyway our media took a picture of a crowded hospital in Italy and reported it as an American hospital. Also Trump says they shipped hundreds of thousands of masks to New York and Cuomo says they didn't send them. Now a man has been arrested for selling masks and he had a huge supply. It's being investigated where all these masks went to. If you don't watch FOX your not fully informed.


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## Chuck Smith

> I don't want to read everything again so if this has already been reported sorry. Anyway our media took a picture of a crowded hospital in Italy and reported it as an American hospital. Also Trump says they shipped hundreds of thousands of masks to New York and Cuomo says they didn't send them. Now a man has been arrested for selling masks and he had a huge supply. It's being investigated where all these masks went to. If you don't watch FOX your not fully informed.


Yep.... and Cuomo came out and stated that people in hospitals were "stealing masks and supplies".... then when Trump requotes him the next day he comes out and says he never stated anyone was "stealing masks".

The media also doesn't report on the numbers of recovery from the virus. Last I read 150,000 was the number. But not sure if that is world wide, Italy, China, USA, etc. They only want the negative. I know in MN it is about 300 or so of the 600+ cases. So right now about 1/2 or just shy of 50% have recovered or are out of quarinteen. Those are numbers people should be reporting on. Not if a guy said "god" in a speech. Not something Trump said back in Feb. or Jan... etc. Do accurate up to date reporting. Give people facts and let them make decisions. But the media (ALL MEDIA) thinks we are sheep and cant form our own opinions.

So a little side rant on the media. Was watching a youtube clip of Steven Crowder. He talked about the one time he interviewed for a job at MSNBC or CNN. I cant remember off hand. It was when he was in-between contracts with Fox and went and talked with them. Anyways he was talking with them and the interviewer/reporter he was talking with said that they had a "source" saying some Republican congressman was "homosexual". Crowder asked who was the "source" and they stated it was anonymous. He then stated he had a source stating Hillary Clinton was a Lesbian. The interviewer/reporter asked who was his source and he replied it is "anonymous". He then said that pretty much ended the interview. But it is the problem with media.... no accountability... LOL


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## Chuck Smith

Here is another new twist that I read on twitter. Don't know if it is true or not.... But here we go...

PELOSI WANTS TO INVESTIGATE TRUMP ABOUT THE VIRUS. She wants to know when he knew things and what not. Lets not forget the same day she was signing her "impeachment papers" and handing out pens. Trump formed a task force on the Virus.

This is something to watch to see if it gains steam. If it does... it honestly shows you who wants to work for the people and who is against the people. Also like I have stated.... remember who was ready to sign a bill to help the country and who added pork to it. Remember who called for a travel shut down and who called it RACIST.

Again don't know if any of this is true about her wanting to investigate. But keep an eye on it the next few days.


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## Plainsman

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/3 ... s-aid-1578

Now we find agencies have shipped supplied we are short of to Thailand. Can anyone be this incompetant or do we have another gov agency working against the president even at the cost of American lives.


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## Chuck Smith

Plainsman...&#8230;. That link isn't working.

But I read something on that as well. Not sure if it was True or not. Just a blurb on twitter was all.

Also remember how I keep talking about "REMEMBER THIS FALL"...

Here is another one. When Trump gave his State of the Union speech (remember the one Pelosi ripped up)&#8230; he talked about the Virus and protecting the country. Maybe she shouldn't have ripped it up and actually listened to the President. oke:

Now on a media rant..... CNN isn't going to broadcast the presidents briefings on the virus..... WHY? Or how can you call yourself a news outlet when in a state of emergency you don't broadcast the president speaking daily with updates. You are also not listening to the task force on updates, the doctors, etc. But yet they give non-stop coverage to only 1 Gov....Cuomo. Do you think they are trying to push him into the spot light and have him possibly become the nomination.... Just something to think about. Also you notice that this all happened after two of their reporters got shown to be trying to politicize everything. Acosta was spanked by Dr. Fauti because he stated all they want is a sound bite to twist around and that is what they have been going. Then the other reporter that Trump spanked that I showed in a previous post. :bop:


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## Plainsman

There is no question that the media is pushing Cuomo. The media and the democrats have been destroying capitalism for years, and morals. They see their work slipping away and its driving them nut (Trump Derangement Syndrom). If Russia or China ever take over the average liberal would out you for execution. However, the commies may prefer patriots to traitors so that may backfire.


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## Chuck Smith

Just read on twitter..... again take with a grain of salt.... and also what day today is "april fools"....

But that Schiff is setting up an independent commission to investigate Trump because of this Virus or his response to the virus.

If this is true it shows you what most have been saying all along... WITCH HUNT.

Like I have mentioned over and over...

1. Trump started a task force when Pelosi was handing out impeachment pens
2. Trump called for a travel ban and was called racist
3. Pelosi held back and added pork to a bipartisan bill.
4. Who loosened testing restrictions by the CDC
5. Who issued the war times act to allow companies to switch over manufacturing
6. Who said to start social distancing

I know there are more. But really.... They should be investigating more of the people who sold stock right after a briefing. :bop:

Edit: On Jan. 30th CNN had a headline talking about "diversity" on trumps task force. So again... who was taking it seriously and who wasn't. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Also things to watch coming out.

1. US intelligence saying "china lied" about actual severity of the virus.
2. WHO not telling the truth about the virus

I will try to find it and add it on this post. But did anyone see the Leader of the World Health Organization in the interview with a Tiawanese reporter. When she asked about the WHO and China recognizing Tiawan as a country that he didn't answer the question. He said he didn't hear it. But when the reporter asked it again he cut off the interview. He just could have stated he doesn't want to answer that question and moved on but he intentionally cut off the interview.

So all the right wing talk about how the WHO is just a puppet of china might be more accurate and not such a tinfoil hat issue.

Edit:


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/russia ... s-pandemic

Yep.... another investigation will happen for sure.



> Russia sending plane filled with medical equipment to US amid coronavirus pandemic


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## Plainsman

> I will try to find it and add it on this post. But did anyone see the Leader of the World Health Organization in the interview with a Tiawanese reporter. When she asked about the WHO and China recognizing Tiawan as a country that he didn't answer the question. He said he didn't hear it. But when the reporter asked it again he cut off the interview. He just could have stated he doesn't want to answer that question and moved on but he intentionally cut off the interview.


I seen that part of the interview. No one wants to upset China. Our basketball team, the World Health Organization, our liberal politicians, our media, out tech companies, etc. We better wake up and not let our own people undermine our government because some bow to China for money and some bow for power. Pelosi and many of our democrats would like to be Xi Jinping's counterpart in a communist United States.


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## Canuck

The cost of Trumps constant lies about how he has dealt with the Covid-19 crises.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...covid19_n_5e7b7d1ac5b6b7d80959966f?ri18n=true

Trump, man up and either lead or get out of the way.


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## Chuck Smith

Remember when I was saying it will be interesting and this will show you about socialized medicine during a pandemic. Or show the truth behind it.

Well I posted a clip from Steven Crowder. Yes he leans right but it is a good clip showing how the privatized area is taking over this pandemic and also how the government is getting in the way. How the government slowed the testing right away but now it is going by leaps and bounds.

I have read what one of the big issues now is that the malaria drugs are not made in the USA so we need the FDA or someone to allow a pharma company to make them. They are not expensive to make and if the government can cut the red tape it will get produced quickly. oke:


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## Canuck

An interesting chart showing # of Covid test per million people for various countries. The USA may have done more tests but not relative to their population.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full-list-cumulative-total-tests-per-million

Another interesting news piece I read explained how Israel has developed a test where the samples from 64 people are mixed and tested. If all are negative you learn that from one test. If one of the 64 is positive then individual tests are carried out. This is possible as they have developed a test that gives almost instant results.

Hopefully, after this over, we all re-examine in detail what worked and what did not. This fire drill could be a savior in the future if we let it.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck...

You are correct they are having huge strides in testing or types of testing. In that video I posted from Crowder he talks about 2 min test and what not. But also shows the red tape. The companies can produce 170K of those tests a day yet the government will only allow them to do 100K..... WHY???

Think of what would be going on if the private sector didn't step in? If Trump didn't lift some of the regulations by the CDC and FDA? How much more would we be back logged on equipment, testing, etc.

Like I mentioned..... in MOST socialized medicine areas the private sector is hamstringed and not allowed to do what is being done now in the USA. I know that in socialized medicine you still get things from private sectors. But are you seeing what is getting done in the USA in Canada? I am curious? Are car plants, pillow manufacturing, other facilities switching over and producing medical supplies? Are you seeing the advancements of the 2 min testing like mentioned in the Crowder video? Like I said... I am curious? I don't know the answer.


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## speckline

Canuck said:


> Hopefully, after this over, we all re-examine in detail what worked and what did not. This fire drill could be a savior in the future if we let it.


ONLY if politics are taken out of the re-examination and their is no blame game.


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## Canuck

Absolutely many Canadian companies are producing masks (Canada Goose Parks is one), face shields (Bauer who make hockey equipment), hand sanitizers (distillers, etc) and carious automotive part companies are making ventilators. The gov't did not have to force anyone to retool. They did offer incentives to companies to help with retooling though. 
I am a bit surprised that some States (like ND) are not requiring people to stay at home or at least self-isolate. Stiffer measures to keep the virus from spreading are what we need now.
Keep well.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nh...care-workers-amid-covid-19-crisis/ar-BB11HSME

https://driving.ca/transportation/a...nies/wcm/8b2aefa6-b9f6-4550-bf2e-e37a9a1fe66e

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-p...al-gear-supplies-as-covid-19-cases-multiply-2


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## Canuck

I don't know about not blaming individuals or organizations. 
Keep politics out if you can but if a person in power downplays a dangerous situation or creates panic by over blowing the situation that person or individual has to be made the example for what is to come. 
We could call whomever you are afraid of offending "Person One" if that makes everyone feel more comfortable.
What does everyone think of Dr. Fauci needing security after receiving death threats for clarifying Trump's words when needed?


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## Canuck

American Doctors were consulted and were asked about the country's plan to control the Covid-19 Virus:

The Allergists were in favor of scratching it, but the Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves.

The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it, but the Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve.

Meanwhile, Obstetricians felt certain everyone was laboring under a misconception, while the Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted.

Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" while the Pediatricians said, "Oh, grow up!"

The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness, while the Radiologists could see right through it.

Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing and the Internists claimed it would indeed be a bitter pill to swallow.

The Plastic Surgeons opined that this proposal would "put a whole new face on the matter."

The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but the Urologists were ****** off at the whole idea.

Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas, and those lofty Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no.

In the end, the Proctologists won out, leaving the entire decision up to the a******s in Washington. :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith

That is awesome those companies are doing it. :beer: :thumb:

Some states are doing the stay at home. But like what Trump has stated it is different all across the country. Just like in Canada. There are places where people live on top of each other and others where your closest neighbor is 10 miles away and people don't go to "town" everyday. Heck... MN has been shut down for about 3 weeks now. Last week the gov did a "stay at home" but it didn't really change too much. It stated "essential" businesses. Which there are a lot more than what you would think are that list. He also pushed back the date to April 10th. With Bars, Restaurants, salons, etc. not opening until May 1st. Which I am thinking he will push back again next week. But cases in MN are still at about a 3% of all tested.

Some Stats on MN to compare. 
4/1/20
Tested - 21,191
Positive Tests - 689
Deaths - 17
No Longer isolated - 342
Required Hospitalized -122
Hospitalized currently - 54
In ICU currently - 27

4/2/20
Tested - 22,934
Positive Tests - 742
Deaths - 18
No Longer Isolated - 373
Required Hospitalized - 138
Hospitalized Currently - 75
In ICU Currently - 38

MN had a 3% increase from yesterday on positive tests.... along with about a 50% people getting "cured" or healthy. The only troubling is the 20 cases increased hospitalization and ICU increases. Those are the numbers to watch out for. That is where hospitals get overwhelmed the most. Last time the Gov talked we had about 240 ICU beds available. But he was working on getting more from the Corp of Eng. and Trump.

Also I saw a demographic that showed in NYC how many people have died solely because of the virus. It is around 100 of the 1500 cases (This was totals from I think 3-31-20). The rest had underlying health issues. Again not trying to down play this but it is showing people with health conditions are more at risk than healthy people. Also in the same breathe I will say most US citizens are unhealthy and odds are have an underlying health issue they don't know about. We as a society are fat and lazy. I am in that category. :beer:

I also know that when someone "dies" in a hospital and you see the actual certificate of death.... it is a laundry list of things not exactly what they went into the hospital for. My Grandmother years ago went in because of cancer and passed away. I know the certificate stated heart issues, lung issues, etc.

Again I am not saying take this whole situation lightly but again we shouldn't let fear rule us either.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck....

First off that was a good one with all the "doctors". :thumb: :beer:



> Keep politics out if you can but if a person in power downplays a dangerous situation or creates panic by over blowing the situation that person or individual has to be made the example for what is to come.


Now on this.... that is the issue. The Media wont let that happen and they are either fear mongering or not saying enough. Then you have some elected officials going off. Schummer was complaining saying not enough is being done in NYC... Cuomo came out and said Trump was doing good.... then back tracked... then said doing good again. Then he said supplies were being stolen... Trump mentions it and then He says he never said it.... then NYC busted a guy selling medical supplies by the thousands... Who do you believe??? Then the Gov of CA comes out and says Trump is doing a good job. Then you have the Gov. of FL who finally put in some "stay at home" orders.... AFTER THE RUSH OF SPRING BREAK... you know what he was more concerned about. oke: The Gov Mich came out and down played the malaria drug... then comes out and screams they need more. ETC. You see the media and elected officials wont let it not be political. Some hate the president so much that they are blinded or they are worried about economic over health. It is a fine line but you cant put all of this on TRUMP.

Like I have stated over and over. Look what was going on back in Dec. and Jan. or what ever when this started in China. 
1. Push for Impeachment
2. WHO lying about not being "air borne" or transferred from person to person
3. China lying about stuff
4. In Jan. Trump does travel ban and is called RACIST
5. Trump starts a task force.... Some are parading around handing out impeachment pens
6. Trump has briefings and only 12 or so Sen/House members show up
7. The elected officials selling off stock and buying stock from a briefing
8. Elected officials saying go out and party this isn't anything bad 
9. False media reports about CDC getting "Cut" when it was only the increase they asked of 25% was cut down to something like 10%.
10. China still lying about numbers and things
11. Pelosi holding up the bills and adding in pork.
12. That one guy calling everyone into vote.... 
etc.

How is all of this Trumps fault.

Lets look at stuff Trump did do
1. Held briefings back in Jan.
2. Formed the Task force
3. Came out with guidelines to follow (people didn't listen)
4. Ready to sign stimulus bills (Congress slowed them down)
5. Lifted testing restrictions that were in place
6. Put into war time manufacturing stuff....ie: letting people switch over manufacturing stuff
7. Sent supplies and stuff were needed (naval ships when media said it wouldn't happen)
8. Talked about the virus back in his State of the Union speech... remember the one Pelosi tore up. oke: 
9. Gives daily briefings on the situation and press trying to get "gotcha" type questions or not reporting things in full.

You also mention about "over blowing" or "down playing".... a good leader doesn't try to create panic or tries not to show defeat. I know I mentioned this before. A good coach/captain doesn't go into a pregame talk and say "we are screwed"... they are up beat and give a plan of attack. Then at half time when the team is getting crushed.... they don't say "well lets give up"... they come up with a plan again and try to stay positive. Then when the game is over they don't say... "well you sucked or we suck"... they stay positive and form a plan of attack to move forward. Isn't that exactly what Trump is doing? Yes I am missing sports. :beer:


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## Canuck

Chuck,
Even though I am self-isolating my wife is standing nearby getting ready to crack the whip so I have precious little time to respond. I wish I could touch on every one of your points. We'll see....

I don't think the WHO was lying about the virus being airborne...the virus is spread by droplets spewed through the air and by aerosols of lighter droplets...airborne means I walk down wind of you and get it even though you don't cough...How the coronavirus travels through the air has become one of the most divisive debates in this pandemic.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...us-pandemic-airborne-go-outside-masks/609235/

Cuomo had to praise Trump in order to get stuff. When Trump trashed him he struck back.

Trump downplayed the virus in the beginning when what people really needed was the truth and the facts. Trump doesn't have to know those things but needed to know when to shut up and let the experts talk. Remember, its like the flu...its going to zero...we have it under control...go out , go on cruises just not to certain countries...I could go on.

Now Trump has latched on to the number of 2 million people could die if nothing is done. If 200,000 die we will all have done a good job...that he will take credit for.

Pence is a sycophant. I find it fairly disgusting that everyone has to stroke Trump continuously. Pence is the best there is at it.

The expert Corona Virus team need to set an example and keep their distance...like I said, lead or get out of the way.

Oh, oh here she comes.....


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## Chuck Smith

> Now Trump has latched on to the number of 2 million people could die if nothing is done.


Yes that is he didn't put in the guidelines, not redirected funds, not lifted sanctions and laws on manufacturing and testing, etc. It is the same scare tactics that Gov. Walz used in MN. He kept saying high numbers if they didn't do a thing..... yet they did do things. It is how it is being reported is why people are not understanding those figures. oke:

Also when all of this first came out of china there was tons of misinformation getting passed along. There still is misinformation getting passed along. So how could anyone know this was going to be so severe. Did Italy, Spain, UK, rest of Europe not listen like people want to blame Trump?

I know now the media is pointing to South Korea. Things they need to know about that situation.

1. The government tracked people via cell phone and what not to "force more social distancing".

- If Trump or any US president did that you would have everyone screaming DICATOR.

2. South Korea people wear masks daily because of the pollution coming from China. This time of year it is worse than others so many were wearing masks.

3. TESTING WASNT AS AVAILABLE as being reported. They did have testing but it is still coming out how it was conducted. We don't have all the info back on that.

So you see it isn't as easy to say... TRUMPS FAULT. Because it isn't. You talk about Cuomo having to "suck up".... that is false as well. He was sending supplies anyways. It is what the media wants people to think.

The problem is everyone is so damn political they are trying to play the blame game. Like I mentioned Bush and Obama depleted masks and other equipment and didn't replace them. How is that Trumps fault? Two administrations before took from resources and didn't replace. They didn't think it was needed. But it is Trumps fault.

I have been posting things that people are doing now and what people are not doing. Who seems more trying to help than divide... BTW... Pelosi and others are forming committees to investigate Trump.... REALLY... is that is what is needed right now? uke:

Just now... the CA gov is coming out and saying this pandemic is away to change to be more "progressive"... Who is making it more political???? This is just after he praised Trump on doing good. uke:

AOC is blaming republicans and Trump for every single death.... REALLY???? What is she doing to help fight the virus???

Trumps campaign is buying meals and delivering them to Hospitals. :beer:

Also lets not forget that most of our medical supplies are made over seas and not in the USA. That is an issue. I don't want to point fingers on this one but kind of have to.... the ACA put higher taxes onto medical devices. Which in turn made companies go over seas for cheaper labor. Just like medicine and what not. Just things to think about when everyone wants to blame TRUMP.... Regulations and Red Tape that has been around for years and even new ones that the ACA put on are to blame for some of this as well. Like the testing right away by the CDC.... remember they were the only ones that could "test" or check results. Trump lifted that and look how testing exploded.


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## Chuck Smith

So now many more Monday morning QB's are coming out.

Pelosi stated that the Virus or this was "self-evident"..... SO WHY DIDN"T THEY GET ON IT????

Are these people working for or against the people? They want to say Trump has the blood on his hands. But if everything was "self evident" why didn't she sound the alarm. She is after all #3 in charge.


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## speckline

The dumbocraps were too busy giving away pens to notice :******:


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## Plainsman

I have not read this myself, but my wife came across it. Evidently 3M has been sending all the medical things they make to foreign countries. I think they make many of the masks we use when we sand or get into dust. I looked in my wood shop todsy and sure enough the four masks I have were t hff e N97. I didnt look at the make.


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## Chuck Smith

I have read that as well about 3M sending supplies over seas.

Not sure to what extent or what is going on. Remember the USA was asked to send supplies when this first struck other countries and what not. Congress I think approved sending stuff as well. Or are some of these supplies already contracted out by these countries? Things that haven't been answered by what I have read.

But it just shows you how crazy things are right now with everyone screaming for supplies.


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## Canuck

CBC is reporting that Trump has ordered 3M to stop sending masks to Canada.

3M is pushing back for "humanitarian Issues"

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/3m-pushes-back-trump-administration-142053191.html


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## Chuck Smith

Remember I talked about how the Nevada Gov. and the malaria drug issue.

I need to say I don't know if this is true or not. But just read that he was caught HOARDING that drug.  oke: oke:

I will tell you one thing that needs to come from all of this is great investigations into some stuff.

1. The Elected officials who sold and bought different stocks after briefings (Dems and Reps)

2. Along with the elected officials if any of their family members did same thing... (Reports on Pelosi's husband and others)

3. Any States or elected officials HOARDING supplies for themselves and their respective states....ie: NYC keeps screaming for more and more and what if it is found that they have 100K sitting in a warehouse.

4. Accountability for all supplies sent and make sure they get distributed. We don't need another Puerto Rico incident. Where they find warehouses of unused supplies.

5. Anyone caught exploiting or making "false" testing or things that are junk. Which happens during a pandemic people make up things and say they work and then it comes out it was all bogus. Look at some of the tests in Europe that they say were or are junk.

6. The handling of some of the bills....ie: Pelosi know wants a committee to over see the handling of these bills... ISN'T THAT WHAT THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE is supposed to do? But again... just need checks and balances to make sure checks go to the right places. Just like I think they should pull the money to the Kennedy Center because they laid off people after getting the grant. Or if Planned Parent Hood gets funding they should have to switch over to Corona Virus handling and not donate that to political parties. Checks and balances.... it is like giving someone $100 and say go buy food with it. Then you see them buying cigs and lotto tickets. You would be upset... correct. :thumb:


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## Canuck

Early on Canada sent a pile of medical supplies like masks to China to help them fight the virus. Trudeau told us he did this because if we could help quell the virus in China that would benefit the rest of the world. I think we did it because China hates our guts after Trump talked us into arresting that Huwawei woman and holding her for extradition. Trump immediately used her as a negotiating chip with China and we got shafted on canola, soybeans and pork. Still getting the shaft on that one.

So here is something I wonder about. There have been a number of reports about the visible (with instruments) reduction of "pollution" from the cities of the world. China has shut down many factories, etc. The Bakken is slowing down activity with oil prices, etc. The earth is getting a bit of a rest and a chance to breathe. Anyway it could be interesting to see what science learns when they get a chance to analyze all the data.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-changes-pollution-over-china.html

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/coronavirus-lockdowns-emissions/


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## Plainsman

Canuck please dont tell me you believe that global warming bs. If you feel a personal need to stop global warming go restore a ten acre wetland. Wetland vegetation like _Typha latifolia_ stores up to 35 tons of carbon per acre. Your whole family and relatives can run your cars 24/7 for the rest of your lives and still offset all your neighbors carbon footprints for ten blocks around you.


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## Chuck Smith

Some stuff that is starting to come to light on this whole virus thing. Well in two cases.... and please watch for them to see if they get reported on. Also it is tragic any death but some are trying to make this more political and drive fear....

But per Candace Owens, yes I know she is very "right".... and also she posted a press conference where the gov is dodging the question....

But an infant died in Connecticut and they came out and stated it was COVID... but now they say they don't know and the only person who knows is the Medical Examiner. So how could they know right away but not now?

Same thing happened in California when they said a "teenager" (I think 17 year old) died of Covid and now they had to back track and say it was "complex".

Again I am not saying death is something to take lightly. But some of these elected officials are coming out and screaming COVID and want to make it political when it might not be the case.

It will be interesting what comes out of NYC. It is a sad situation going on there but many "twitter reports" I have read is people who die with the virus are getting tagged as the virus killed them. Which like I mentioned before it could be the reason or not. Like I mentioned with my grandma and her death certificate had more things than just cancer on it.

AGAIN I AM NOT TAKING DEATH LIGHTLY AT ALL AND THIS IS SERIOUS ISSUE WITH THE VIRUS. But not all stats could be accurate because of political gain. This could also go towards less numbers as well.


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## Canuck

Plainsman,
My appreciation for the results from measuring atmospheric parameters has nothing to do with "climate change".
Simply put, if you reduce certain emission inputs and you can see (measure) those reductions I find that to be interesting and having some scientific value.

What is your problem with the results as presented?


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## Plainsman

> The Bakken is slowing down activity with oil prices, etc. The earth is getting a bit of a rest and a chance to breathe. Anyway it could be interesting to see what science learns when they get a chance to analyze all the data.


This statement I took as a global warming anti fossil fuel statement. People think it may have been the Russians that hacked the email of the worlds top two global change scientists. Those emails revealed that they were collaborating to make the data say what they wanted.

China really is dirty. We are idiots to sign on to anything like the Paris accord. China loves it because its one thing that drives American companies to China. We cut emmissions. companies move, China produces eith even dirtier technology. It cost us. it benifits China, and global carbon immissions increase. I think we need to stop reffering to it as common sense and call it uncommon sense.


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## Canuck

I was merely pointing out that along with world oil prices, the Covid virus has slowed down certain activities around the globe and the affects of the slowdown can be measured remotely. Here is an interesting article that was widely reported about better seismic measurements that can now be made due to a drop in "noise: around the world.

https://www.mic.com/p/the-earth-is-...ess-because-of-coronavirus-lockdowns-22683117

The drop in human activity due to coronavirus lockdowns has quieted noise levels in big cities and left streets eerily empty. The silence is deafening - or, at the very least, measurable, according to geoscientists reporting from the U.S. and Europe. Seismologists (scientists who study earthquakes and other seismic activity on the Earth) have noted a reduction in human-related 'seismic noise,' which usually stems from vehicles and industrial work. With governments putting a pause on both of those activities to stem the spread of Covid-19, this means the Earth itself is literally vibrating less these days.

It is interesting though to see that some human activities have global effects. No fear just measurable effects.


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## Plainsman

> It is interesting though to see that some human activities have global effects. No fear just measurable effects.


Got it. . The people who think they are environmentalist, but actualy make the situation worse make me hypersensative I guess. It about makes me pull my hair out when some vegetarian complains about raising beef because grain can feed more people. They have no idea what they speak of because beef is raised where grain farming equipment can not be used. There are a few exception course.

This is how things actually work here: Pseudo environmentalist pressure politicians on the left, they pass legislation requiring fewer emissions, production costs go up, the company moves production to China, Americans loose jobs, Chinese get sweat shop jobs working in factories with no emmission limitations, global carbon increases, liberals smile at their success and push for more, China gets richer and richer and becomes a world supper power threstening all of us with molitary might.

Today China fears no one. They lied about the virus. They do not respect human life and would kill a million pf their own people to mask as an accident a virus they would loose on the world.

Can you see the progression in disrespect for human life. Communism and socialism hate religion because it tespects human life. We start with abortion in the first trimester, then we advance to second. third. then pzrtial birth. and now immediately following birth. Interviewed college women daid we shoukd be able to end life before the age of awareness which they said was five years old. In China they execute prisoners to harvest organs. How far in the future is that for the United States? Currently it sounds wild. but the left is the party of death. The only difference is they have tender feelings for criminals more than people with a moral compass.


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## Plainsman

> It is interesting though to see that some human activities have global effects. No fear just measurable effects.


Got it. . The people who think they are environmentalist, but actualy make the situation worse make me hypersensative I guess. It about makes me pull my hair out when some vegetarian complains about raising beef because grain can feed more people. They have no idea what they speak of because beef is raised where grain farming equipment can not be used. There are a few exception of course.

This is how things actually work here: Pseudo environmentalist pressure politicians on the left, they pass legislation requiring fewer emissions, production costs go up, the company moves production to China, Americans loose jobs, Chinese get sweat shop jobs working in factories with no emmission limitations, global carbon increases, liberals smile at their success and push for more, China gets richer and richer and becomes a world supper power threstening all of us with molitary might.

Today China fears no one. They lied about the virus. They do not respect human life and would kill a million pf their own people to mask as an accident a virus they would loose on the world.

Can you see the progression in disrespect for human life. Communism and socialism hate religion because it tespects human life. We start with abortion in the first trimester, then we advance to second. third. then pzrtial birth. and now immediately following birth. Interviewed college women daid we shoukd be able to end life before the age of awareness which they said was five years old. In China they execute prisoners to harvest organs. How far in the future is that for the United States? Currently it sounds wild. but the left is the party of death. The only difference is they have tender feelings for criminals more than people with a moral compass.


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## Canuck

Trump should think before he acts! Does he know where the raw materials for 3M's paper masks come from??

https://globalnews.ca/news/6772979/coronavirus-3m-n95-respirators-trump-canada/

Canada is threatening retaliation. For example Trudeau mentioned stopping the shipment of various medications and not allowing the numerous health care workers in places like Windsor/Detroit to cross the border as they now do daily to work for the American health care system. Piss poor performance by both our countries. Shame on all of us.


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## Canuck

Plainsman said:


> The Bakken is slowing down activity with oil prices, etc. The earth is getting a bit of a rest and a chance to breathe. Anyway it could be interesting to see what science learns when they get a chance to analyze all the data.
> 
> 
> 
> This statement I took as a global warming anti fossil fuel statement./quote]
> 
> 
> 
> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you feel a personal need to stop global warming go restore a ten acre wetland. Wetland vegetation like Typha latifolia stores up to 35 tons of carbon per acre. Your whole family and relatives can run your cars 24/7 for the rest of your lives and still offset all your neighbors carbon footprints for ten blocks around you.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Ha! Talk about guessing wrong. I am fairly heavily invested in oil and pipeline stocks! 
I don't really have too many neighbors for 10 miles around me let alone 10 blocks.
Consequently, I probably would not let my wife head off to town which is sixty miles away in an electric car! Especially in winter!


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## Canuck

So, tune in Canada, eh. I am deep into a fifth (as you call them ) of scotch and some things are becoming apparent to me,./
1) I can still type and spell
2) If I lived in the States I would be a Republican
3) If I was a Republican Trump would not be my candidate of choice...what a nice way to put it...if I was a Republican I would be taking everything that this moron is doing to heart and I would be chomping at the bit to replace him before the election in November. Fess up all you Repuclicans you know, deep down, that you wish you could do the same. :rollin: :rollin: oke: eace:


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## Plainsman

:thumb: although I vote republican I dislike them also. I guess I vote for the lesser of two evils. I do hope Trump drains the swamp.


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## Resky

[quote="Canuck"Fess up all you Repuclicans you know, deep down, that you wish you could do the same. :rollin: :rollin: oke: eace:[/quote]

Not me, though I wish he would tone down some of his tweets I think Trump is the best thing for this country since Reagan.


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## Chuck Smith

I don't know if any of you have seen it or not. But there is a vid out there about a nurse who "quit" her job and what not because of supplies and so forth. I know CBS ran with the story. It was a video she posted to either face book or twitter or something.

Anyway.... it is coming out that it might be a fraud. oke:

It is sad that people do this. But if it comes out that it is completely a fraud (like Jussie Smollete) she should get this as a mark on her for any future employment.


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## Plainsman

On the news last night dozens of nurses are reporting being reprimanded and sent home for wearing personal protection equipment because it frightened patients. What a bunch of pansies we have become. Much like when I provide security at election places I do it plain cloths because some complain I may frighten voters. I'll give you two guesses which party is the pansy *** party who asks for that.


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## Resky

Plainsman said:


> It is currently low, and if the Democrats don't demand we open our borders there is a good chance it will stay low. The president is simply trying to avoid foolish panic which the Democrats are trying to create. Some democrats are saying maybe they can use this to bring down Trump. I think whentheyeork against America and the health of its citizens to het to Trump its treason. Pelosi and Shumer should be standing on the gallows.


And that is what the President is calling a hoax. Not the virus itself but the fact the Democrats were trying to create fear and blame Trump which is their new hoax. He didn't call the pandemic a hoax. I think some have to much wax in their ears or they just want to hear what they want to hear.


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## Chuck Smith

Have everyone read where the State Rep that wants to take Trump to trial because of crimes against humanity. Her case is because he is talking about the Malaria drug. REALLY..... the only bad thing I have heard is the idiot who took the fish cleaner. The rest has been positive on the treatment. So what is really her case????


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## Plainsman

The under informed who watch ABC, CBS, NBC, and other mainstream commy outlets will think this is real too. I dont have gacebook, but my wife does. Im amazed at the liberal gullibility/partisanship/lack of intelligence or whatever makes them believe this crap no accounting for all the times these things fall on their face.


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## Chuck Smith

Plainsman...

It is like that report that kept going off on the "our"... .meaning everyone. Not just state. That reported wanted Trump to say something and have a "gotcha" on the whole NYC stuff. But like he stated it is everyones stock pile. So you cant just give NYC everything and leave the rest of the country short. You see how the media is being dishonest with this president and wanting sound bites.

Now granted he gives them enough sound bites to use. But it is sad they don't "inform" anymore. uke:


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## Canuck

According to the Center for Disease Control and Prevention website, the CDC has developed a new laboratory test kit for use in testing patient specimens for severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), the virus that causes COVID-19. The CDC also claims that this test kit is intended for use with the Applied Biosystems 7500 Fast DX Real-Time PCR Instrument with SDS 1.4 software. This test is intended for use with upper and lower respiratory specimens collected from persons who meet CDC criteria for COVID-19 testing.

Applied Biosystems is one of the various brands under the Life Technologies brand of Thermo Fisher Scientific corporation. The brand is focused on integrated systems for genetic analysis, which include computerized machines and the consumables used within them, such as reagents.

According to the Associated Press, Donald Trump, the current President of the United States who is supposed to be managing the Coronavirus epidemic and how the testing is conducted, has listed investments in V.F. Corp (VFC) and Thermo Fisher Scientific Corporation (TMO), both of which moved jobs out of the U.S. in high profile outsourcing deals. There is reason to believe that Donald Trump stands to profit from medical testing of coronavirus that will now take place in the United States.

The World Health Organization (WHO) began shipping coronavirus testing supplies to nearly 60 countries by February, but Trump didn't want those kits.

The United States declined to use the WHO test, even temporarily as a bridge until the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention could produce its own test and the Trump administration has given no explanation as to why. Trump's possible interest in the company that the U.S. will be using to provide the tests and the fact that if he might still own stock in Thermo Fisher Scientific and world stand to profit from the government contract, could be a major reason why no other tests were accepted.

Wow I need to FACT CHECK this. Trump!!! No wonder he won't let Dr. Faucci speak out.
https://shero.substack.com/p/trump-coul ... oronavirus


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## speckline

What a total crock of shiite!


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## Plainsman

Wooooow-----yawn, suckered again I'll bet. oke:

Dont use Snoops for you fact check they are further left than Karl Marx. :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith

https://thefederalist.com/2020/04/06/cb ... onditions/

This is an article talking about the "nurse" who said she had to quit her job because she was asked to not wear a face mask....

Which turned out to be total BS. So the media strikes again.. oke:


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## Canuck

Actually the Snopes version is that the story may NOT be true. You will never know though as Trump has refused to provide you, his people, with any financial information. You should b concerned enough to look out for your own interest.

Trust but verify would be a good approach for you.
I choose to not trust...if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

So Doug Ford, the Premier of Ontario, was asked how much blame he takes for how his Province has mis-handled the Covid-19 virus. Unlike the leader of the USA who blasts reporters, deflects legitimate questions and constantly blames others, Ford calmly said to the reporter..."If you need someone to blame go ahead and blame me...I will not let you attack the front line workers though, you will not blame the nurses, doctors or people who clean the hospitals...so blame me if your newspaper needs someone to blame.

So I have one question...When will enough time have passed since the last administration that Trump can no longer blow smoke up your dress blaming Obama?


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## Chuck Smith

So a few things... especially to show you that the media is BS.... and to comment on what Canuck put up about the testing.

1. Look how the Malaria drug has gotten reported. First: It kills people. Second: It doesn't work. Thrid: Trump will "profit" off of it. So the drug must work. Also what isn't getting commented on is that the Drug patent is over and can be cheaply made. So anyone can use the exact same recipe for it and produce it. oke:

2. Testing in many states is now totally private and not government run. So there are many many many different tests out there to use and testing companies to use as well. So it isn't "JUST TRUMP" could get rich.

3. The test kits by the WHO that I believe that Canuck is talking about is the same ones that people in other countries were saying didn't work 100% and produced false results. But I am not 100% sure. Remember many test kits that the WHO and from China were shipped back because they didn't work. Those were ones sent to Italy, UK, etc. So why should the USA get them when Trump opened up and loosened up for Private companies to do testing. Which has taken over and started to catch up to demand. The screams of "LACK OF TESTING" is BS. Places are testing people who have sympthoms not testing anyone who walks in the door. That is what people are complaining about is that they think everyone should be tested. Which would swamp testing facilities and delay getting results by months.

EDIT: Media strikes again...Great journalism and digging up facts.... uke:

Here is an article stating how much Trump really has in the "small stake".... In one of his family trusts they have a mutual fund which has a percentage of a stock. At a minimum it is $99 total or it could be up to a $1500 investment into that company. So not really a "driving" force to profit.



> Trump's 2019 financial-disclosure form lists stakes in Family Trusts 1, 2 and 3 valued at between $1,001 and $15,000. So if Trump has the maximum $15,000 in each of the trusts, he holds a stake in Sanofi that's worth $1,485 - and, at the minimum, just $99.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump ... 2020-04-07

Got to love how these "journalists" are doing a great job. In this thread how many have been proven false. :bop: :bop: :bop:

Let alone just listen to the press briefings where the journalists ask a question and Trump pushes back a little and then they actually prove themselves being false or trying to push a narrative. Granted he isn't acting in a good way at all. But honestly I am glad he is pushing back. because it is really showing who these people are. Not journalists but political. :bop: Report the facts not ask gotcha questions. Also CNN is getting proven every day to contradict anything stated in the briefings. Maybe they should go back and show them so people can be informed. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

> So I have one question...When will enough time have passed since the last administration that Trump can no longer blow smoke up your dress blaming Obama?


Well if you go off the last administration for blaming everything on the Bush Adm.... 5 more years after he wins in Nov. oke: oke: oke:

Also back to my "reporting" of deaths....

Here is a chart coming out of NYC. I am not sure if it is from Today 4/7/2020 or a few days before. But shows you underlying conditions of people who died. So is it the actual virus killing them or the underlying conditions? There are still some tests pending to be done to make sure 100% conclusive. But just shows how things are getting reported to stoke fear. Which again is ok to a certain degree because it will make people actually listen and follow the social distancing stuff. It is why Dr. Faucti is so doom and gloom. Compared to others. :bop:

*This must be a week ago stats or more. Because today Cuomo stated about 5500 deaths or so.*


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## KEN W

Fargo and West Fargo mayors finally issue stay at home orders. On TV live right now.

GOOD thing there isn't a big time flood to fight.


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## Chuck Smith

Cuomo is asking for more of that Malaria drug....

You think the media will now back off on "drug = bad".... or will they now scream about how Trump isn't doing enough to get it. Even though he just talked with India who was going to hold it back that they will send a bunch to the USA. Plus Trump asking companies to possibly start making it.

Again... this is directed at the media and the BS they have been spewing. oke:

Just wait... someone will say something along the lines that Trump should have been pushing this sooner. :beer: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

I was reading an article this morning that said the world has been treating Corvid19 wrong. They said it isn't ARDS and ventilators cause more damage than good. They said the virus attaches to the red blood cell and releases the iron that allows the red blood cell to carry oxygen. They said that makes it act much like carbon monoxide poisoning.


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## Canuck

Corona virus took John Prine too soon...while we wait for this to pass...hope you have time to listen.
Stay safe.


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## Chuck Smith

To touch base on the "death totals". Dr. Brix came out yesterday and stated that no matter what the underlying condition is they are labeling all deaths by Covid-19 if it is detected.

So the way it sounds to me is that if you are 85 years old in a hospice for cancer and you got COVID-19 and died. It is a COVID death not a cancer death.

Because in my area they just reported last night two deaths and they were people in HOSPICE care at the time but died because of the virus.

Edit: Another example.... If someone dies in a car crash yet has COVID is that now a covid death? See how the numbers might not be telling the truth.

Again death is a very sad thing and we shouldn't take any of the virus stuff lightly. But was it the condition that put them in hospice that killed them or was it the virus? Just something to think about on this issue when you hear totals. They might be off a little.

I am also trying to find a clip from what Chris Cuomo said while in quarantine vs what trump really said. He completely lied!! Again a rant on the media. Because CNN will post him (which they should he is an employee and dealing with the virus)&#8230; but not TRUMP briefings.

Also I hate to say this... and I am putting on my tin foil hat for this one. Does he really have the virus or is he making this up and trying to drum up stuff for his brother.... and yes I might be wearing two tinfoil hats and hiding from all the planes in the air that are "watching" me on this one. oke:


----------



## Plainsman

> Also I hate to say this... and I am putting on my tin foil hat for this one. Does he really have the virus or is he making this up and trying to drum up stuff for his brother.... and yes I might be wearing two tinfoil hats and hiding from all the planes in the air that are "watching" me on this one.


 After the little drama with his brother during what was supposed to be a serious news report and the lies they tell it's anyone's guess.


----------



## KEN W

As far back as late November, U.S. intelligence officials were warning that a contagion was sweeping through China's Wuhan region, changing the patterns of life and business and posing a threat to the population, according to four sources briefed on the secret reporting.

Concerns about what is now known to be the novel coronavirus pandemic were detailed in a November intelligence report by the military's National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document's contents.

The report was the result of analysis of wire and computer intercepts, coupled with satellite images. It raised alarms because an out-of-control disease would pose a serious threat to U.S. forces in Asia -- forces that depend on the NCMI's work. And it paints a picture of an American government that could have ramped up mitigation and containment efforts far earlier to prepare for a crisis poised to come home.

"Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event," one of the sources said of the NCMI's report. "It was then briefed multiple times to" the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's Joint Staff and the White House.

From that warning in November, the sources described repeated briefings through December for policy-makers and decision-makers across the federal government as well as the National Security Council at the White House. All of that culminated with a detailed explanation of the problem that appeared in the President's Daily Brief of intelligence matters in early January, the sources said. For something to have appeared in the PDB, it would have had to go through weeks of vetting and analysis, according to people who have worked on presidential briefings in both Republican and Democratic administrations.


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## KEN W

Once again the Clown Prince shows his true colors. We could have been a lot more ready for this. But the idiot in the White house had his heads up his butt again. He is only concerned about himself. How will this affect him. Just think how many deaths could have been saved if he listened to his intelligence reports. uke: uke:

And the lemmings on the right will continue over the cliff. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken,

I read some of that as well and that Navarro put out a memo. The one thing that people are not saying is this.... the day either the first or second memo of Navarro is the same day the Trump did the travel ban. So he did do something.

Also with this whole case and things we also don't know about is.... Did others press on this matter with Trump? Right now we are getting lots of second guessers. But are there other things like this that come up on reports that get blown off as well. That is something we don't know. Just like the government was warned about Pearl Harbor but didn't listen. I thought I even remember there was rumblings of the 9/11 attacks but people blew it off as well. You cant put this 100% on the president. There are others in the intelligence community that are senators, representatives, etc that ignored the reports as well. Same goes with advisors, vice president and the president.

We have to remember what was going on in Nov... Pelosi pushed and rushed IMPEACHMENT. So instead of looking at reports they were scurrying impeachment on a baseless grounds. Remember they knew it wasn't going to pass at all on its flimsy merits. I blame everyone in the Congress to the people in the presidents cabinet for this. Along with the WHO, China, etc. They all lied as well. This was pretty close to unseen events like others. Remember the "bird flu", Swine Flu, etc. All of those were hyped up and didn't amount to much. Was everyone thinking the same??? Lots of Monday morning QB's on this and we will keep seeing that play out until November. oke:

But I know how people like to put the blame on the president as well. It is the popular thing to do for all parties. It is Bush's fault, Obama's fault, Trump's Fault, etc. It is how politics work now. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken,

Also if he would have shut down the travel back in Nov... what would have been the left screaming....RACIST, DICTATOR, ETC. Oh wait they did that already when he did those things.

To be honest.... What could he have done back in Nov?

Also if you want to put deaths on him.... so every year the FLU kills people it is on a president? Because right now projected deaths are dropping on every model and report.... almost daily. Just things to think about.

But I also know that you like to get us guys going on the right. Since there isn't many voices on the left that are on this site. :beer:


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## speckline

American author Dean Koontz predicted the 2019-2020 Coronavirus outbreak in the 1981 book "The Eyes of Darkness"!

Therefore it's Reagan, bush 1, cliton, bush 2 and obongo's fault for ignoring the warning!!!! uke:


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## Canuck

> Also I hate to say this... and I am putting on my tin foil hat for this one. Does he really have the virus or is he making this up and trying to drum up stuff for his brother.


Pretending to have the virus? Kind of like a hoax?
Now there is a novel concept. Why didn't Trump think of that?
Hey wait a minute.........


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## KEN W

speckline said:


> American author Dean Koontz predicted the 2019-2020 Coronavirus outbreak in the 1981 book "The Eyes of Darkness"!
> Therefore it's Reagan, bush 1, cliton, bush 2 and obongo's fault for ignoring the warning!!!! uke:[/q
> 
> That is fiction. I have read Koontz books. Give me a break.....We are now comparing fiction with the real thing? :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
> 
> It can be sugar coated all you guys want....It comes down to one thing. Trump had the information that this was coming and did NOTHING. It costs the lives of THOUSANDS Americans. :******: :******: :******:


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## Chuck Smith

> Pretending to have the virus? Kind of like a hoax?
> Now there is a novel concept. Why didn't Trump think of that?
> Hey wait a minute.........


Like he stated it is a Dem Hoax to attack him.... not the virus but how the Dem's will politized it.

Look what is already happening...

1. Schiff forming a committee to look into Trumps handling of this.
2. Dem Committee to over see the stimulus
3. AOC and Pelosi wanting illegal immigrants to get funding.
- Maybe fund every single Citizen first with out income limits before you fund an illegal. Yes even people who make as a single person $99K and married $150K or what ever the limits are. They pay in taxes as well.... just saying.

ETC... there are others they are blaming him for as well.


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## Chuck Smith

> It can be sugar coated all you guys want....It comes down to one thing. Trump had the information that this was coming and did NOTHING. It costs the lives of THOUSANDS Americans. :ticked: :ticked: :ticked:


So do you blame FDR for Pearl Harbor???

Like I mentioned.... you cant put all the blame on Trump.... lots of people also had the info as well.

Edit:

Also please tell us what he could have done? And wouldn't have been called RACIST, DICTATOR, ETC. Please enlighten us.

1. He closed down travel.... CALLED RACIST.
2. If he would have called for a nation wide STAY AT HOME.... he would be called DICTATOR.
3. If he would have shut down and did the war times act and told companies to start to kick out ventilators and masks.... DICTATOR would be the battle cry.
4. If he didn't ship supplies to China and other places to help when it first became more public.... RACIST AND WORLD DICTATOR again would have been the head lines.

Please what could have he done????


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## Plainsman

> That is fiction. I have read Koontz books. Give me a break.....We are now comparing fiction with the real thing?


 :rollin: like all the things you posted during the impeachment Ken? oke:

I think Trump would have acted sooner if the WHO hadn't lied to him. The way it was the left jumped on him as a racist. He had to walk a fine line between Pelosi wanting to impeach him for closing travel to China and deception from the WHO. I don't know anyone else who could have withstood the lies and hate Trump has had to deal with. I'm starting to think this is more than Trump Derangement Syndrome it's more like demonic. We need to give all our liberal friends an exorcism.


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## KEN W

Plainsman..... What are you talking about specifically. I didn't post comparisons with Dean Koontz's books of fiction.

As for FDR.....yes he is partly to blame for Tora, Tora, Tora.

You guys can sugar coat it all you want.....Trump has allowed the deaths of thousands of People. He knew this was coming. He did nothing when he was briefed by his intelligence people. We could have saved a LOT more people. It is what it is. :******: :******:


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## Plainsman

Trump closing travel to China even while the left called him racist saved thousands of lives.



> Plainsman..... What are you talking about specifically.


 All the "we got him now" posts that you had during the impeachment.



> He did nothing when he was briefed by his intelligence people.


 I'm sure he had to weigh the intelligence report, the left trying to get him again, the backlash from China and the left if he said China was lying, the backlash from Who and the left if he said the WHO is lying. Try putting yourself in that situation and tell me you wouldn't soil your panties. Maybe if the left wasn't so gung ho to destroy him he would have a little more confidence to make decisions. I'm amazed at the wonderful job he has been doing with the enemies who would give up a 100k in lives if they could get him. And Ken don't tell me the left wouldn't sacrifice 100k lives they have already killed 60 million in this country. Democrats the party of death.


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## KEN W

I do not belong to the party of death.I guess I won't soil my panties.....If you can't understand that this guy costs thousands of lives this is what this is


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## huntin1

Since the Majority and Minority Leaders of the Senate and the Speaker and Minority Leader of the House of Representatives all have access to intelligence reports, why is it the drunken old hag and her sidekick Schumer weren't talking about this back in November when the intelligence reports were supposed to have come out? Is it because this information really wasn't there, or were they just too busy with their fake impeachment to worry about a real global pandemic?


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## speckline

Serious question for any and all to opine an answer...
Why do the people feel the need to place blame for something beyond control??


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## Resky

So ABC and a left wing paper report that the President new abut the full danger of the virus in November and people swallow it. Even if that were true which I doubt, no one on here knows 
if this supposedly intel report was actually given and I know no one on here knows what might have been in this reported report. I think some people really need to lay off the cool aid.

While I'm at it, those living outside this country need to worry about their own sorry country and government. Need not be telling us how too run our country or cutting down our leadership. Whatever problems we might have is our business. I wouldn't trade my country for any other existing country in the world.


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## Plainsman

> While I'm at it, those living outside this country need to worry about their own sorry country and government. Need not be telling us how too run our country or cutting down our leadership. Whatever problems we might have is our business. I wouldn't trade my country for any other existing country in the world.


 Good advise, and in a friendly way too. Some posts back Canuck you complained about Trump threatening to put troops on the Canadian border. Why would that be a bad thing. If Canada put troops on the border I would be happy because I see Canada as a friend and only wanting to help.

The United States and Canada among many other countries have made China rich. Rich enough to build up their military into a super power. Canada and Mexico would both be talking Chinese or Russian if they didn't live next to a super power. However, we now have three super powers in the world that both hate the United States. It's time for those who belong to NATO to start contributing equal shares rather than letting the United States do all the spending and work. I say this not in anger, but for their continued freedom.

Without any tinfoil hat I am beginning to wonder if fellow communists (China) helped out liberals destroy the economy. The Chinese killed tens of millions to take over China. Do we really think our liberals would not do the same if the could? Outlandish, tinfoil hat they will say, but if you vote liberal it is not unlike a person who hires a hit man to kill someone. The liberal voter may not rip the child from the womb and stab an instrument into the brain and scramble it, they just approve and fund it like the guy who hires the hit man.


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## Canuck

Plainsman, I did not post that diatribe...
Trump placing troops near the border with Canada to prevent scared Americans from fleeing the country and heading for Canada is fine with me. Hopefully he was not planning on gunning them down, just turning them around and sending them back.
It feels like the USA has effed over Canada more in the past three years than China has.
For my own health and well-being I will take your advice to heart and leave you in peace....but before I go...

Here is where my distaste for Trump *as a human being* started....

Your President says his daughter is so hot he would date her (sick)
Did you pay off Stormy Daniels...Trump "No, no"(Lie)
"Grab her by the *****. When you're rich they just let you" (sick)

And it just went down hill from there...do you remember those words? I didn't think so.

I find Trump's lies, constant blaming of others, his refusal to take any responsibility for his words and actions and his always needing to be praised sickening. It makes me unwell. I need to do my best to turn my focus onto the paradise where I live and away from the cesspool that is politics, especially in the USA these days.

I wish you all good luck and good health.


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## dakotashooter2

huntin1 said:


> Since the Majority and Minority Leaders of the Senate and the Speaker and Minority Leader of the House of Representatives all have access to intelligence reports, why is it the drunken old hag and her sidekick Schumer weren't talking about this back in November when the intelligence reports were supposed to have come out? Is it because this information really wasn't there, or were they just too busy with their fake impeachment to worry about a real global pandemic?


Exactly... Congress had the power to act on this also and did nothing.. Except maybe start drafting pork bills to tag on to the stimulus bill they knew would eventually be needed. I keep hearing the complain that the government should have been more prepared. For those that make that comment I ask, did you have 6 months worth of toilet paper stored in your home before this happened? Why not, you should have been prepared. Our government is prepared for regional disasters, not country wide. Think of the logistics( and cost) of have to provide emergency service to the entire country at once. What reason would there have been to stockpile 10 or 100 times as many ventilators and or other specialized medical equipment, some of which may have expiration dates, than are normally used in a year? Raise your hand if you personally have a years worth of medication in your home...People have unreasonable expectations of what the government can and can't do. Guaranteed that congress hasn't even considered what the cost of these porked up trillion dollars stimulus bills is actually gonna be. Some people are angry that Trump wants to throw some money out to keep businesses afloat. I'm reminded of the saying " give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Does that not apply? Giving people some help to get through a month is great but isn't insuring they have a job to go back to just as or more important?


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## Chuck Smith

> As for FDR*.....yes he is partly to blame for Tora, Tora, Tora*


 So it wasn't just the president is what you are saying.



> Since the Majority and Minority Leaders of the Senate and the Speaker and Minority Leader of the House of Representatives all have access to intelligence reports, why is it the drunken old hag and her sidekick Schumer weren't talking about this back in November when the intelligence reports were supposed to have come out?


This is exactly correct..... If you want to put blame on people it is ALL of our elected officials who have access to those intel reports. House Leader and Minority Leader, Senate Leader and Minority Leader, Anyone on the Intel committee, VP, Pres, ETC... they all get these reports. But like what has been mentioned. What got rammed down our throat in NOV. and yes they did ram it down our throat. They didn't have the evidence, they didn't have testimony, they had nothing but rushed to push impeachment. So did they ignore or brush aside a report?? Yes... all of them!!!

But like mentioned what could he have done at that moment?

*



Why do the people feel the need to place blame for something beyond control??

Click to expand...

*The above quote is 100% accurate.

He put out guidelines to follow.... Some states ignored those guidelines while others followed them and implemented orders.

Like I mentioned.... if he did anything he is called RACIST, DICTATOR, TREASONIST, etc. There are people who are right wing calling all of this going on now a "POLICE STATE" and what not. They are blame Trump for the actions he is suggesting.


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## Chuck Smith

> Your President says his daughter is so hot he would date her (sick)
> Did you pay off Stormy Daniels...Trump "No, no"(Lie)
> "Grab her by the p*$$y. When you're rich they just let you" (sick


Canuck,

This is I think exactly why people "hate" Trump so much is exactly those three things you posted.

1. The Daughter quote is creepy as hell.... he could have stated it 100 x differently to state his daughter is good looking.

2. The Stormy Daniels things.... Well remember that Stormy got nailed by the clauses in the NON DISCLOSURE agreement. She had to pay TRUMP. So was he just abiding by the agreement they both signed? Was he obligated to "deny" it because of a LEGAL AGREEMENT. I am thinking so since it was found in a court of law that STROMY violated that agreement.

3. Yes in this day and age that isn't something to say. But it was recorded 15 + years prior. Is there anything in your life you wish you didn't say that someone heard??? I know there is too many in my life time.

Like I have stated over and over. People knew going into his election that he was a blow hard, egotistical maniac, etc. It is what he has been his whole life. But it is finally the USA has a businessman with his mentality to hopefully get us on the right side of trade deals, get the deficit going the other direction (which he hasn't done even before this virus hit), cut spending and have a balanced budget (which he was getting closer too), have taxes go the other direction (which he did for most), etc.

What I think the problem is with all of politics is that people are voting via "FEELINGS" and not judgement.

In Trumps case many voted for him because he was a "Showman". He threw insults, made jokes, he gets people all excited, he calls BS on things that are BS, he is throwing out the PC culture, etc. He is still doing it. But some didn't listen to his plan or things for the country. He actually had a plan. Others did... but many didn't.

People voted for Obama because he was a nice guy, his race (and no I am not trying to be racist but it is what happened), he was a great speaker and could get a crowd whipped up but really say nothing in his speeches. He would just say "change" and how we needed to do it.... with out saying what or how he would change things. I remember asking people during his first run.... what is the "change" he is talking about.... and nobody could tell me. All they said was they hated "Bush" and wanted the change.

You see both of the examples is the problem with our political system. People are not listening to what the they will do good for the country. They listen to the lip service. Honeslty Bernie is one of the most out there saying what he wants to do but again he doesn't have a plan other than TAX THE RICH. Which we all know wont work and his plans would bankrupt out country.

Anyways..... back onto he virus.

I think the president has done all he really can and some states are listening and others are not. FL waited too late to do anything because they wanted the revenue from spring breakers. NYC is just screwed because of demographics of people living on top of each other and the public transit system everyone relys on. Lousiana is the same thing with the revenue from Mardis Gras and what not.


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## speckline

Good post!


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> Plainsman, I did not post that diatribe...
> Trump placing troops near the border with Canada to prevent scared Americans from fleeing the country and heading for Canada is fine with me. Hopefully he was not planning on gunning them down, just turning them around and sending them back.
> It feels like the USA has effed over Canada more in the past three years than China has.
> For my own health and well-being I will take your advice to heart and leave you in peace....but before I go...
> 
> Here is where my distaste for Trump *as a human being* started....
> 
> Your President says his daughter is so hot he would date her (sick)*Yes that was stupid. Simply saying you thought she was attractive would have been good enough. Every parent thinks their children and especially their grandchildren are attractive.*
> Did you pay off Stormy Daniels...Trump "No, no"(Lie)*Another dumb move, but we didn't hire a saint we voted in a person who we thought could run the country best. Besides his opponent was a monster straight from the bowels of hell.*
> "Grab her by the p*$$y. When you're rich they just let you" (sick)*Yes I remember that. I don't know if it was a childish boys locker room bs or what. Also mothers teach their daughters to say no, but they sure as heck don't teach them to understand no. They think they are entitled if they want it and I can only imagine how many women throw themselves at men with money and men with power. They are simply hookers.*
> 
> And it just went down hill from there...do you remember those words? I didn't think so.
> 
> I find Trump's lies, constant blaming of others, his refusal to take any responsibility for his words and actions and his always needing to be praised sickening. It makes me unwell. I need to do my best to turn my focus onto the paradise where I live and away from the cesspool that is politics, especially in the USA these days.
> 
> I wish you all good luck and good health.


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## Chuck Smith

Just in....

Sen Dems blocked a bill that was co-authored by them and non-partisan on a stimulus for small businesses. Not sure what was changed or not changed. But one thing I read was Mitch upped the dollar amount of the bill... I think it was $250 billion. Not sure what the objections were. Still waiting to read.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... ingbuttons

So this is interesting.... Got it off a "right" leaning website. But will this skew numbers and why "deaths" are being listed that way?

Things to think about.


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## Plainsman

I don't remember which person posted all the information about the intelligence agency giving Trump a report about the virus early on. On the radio today a statement read from the head of the medical intelligence who said no such report exists. It's another story for suckers. More lies to sucker the gullible/hateful. We went through all these false stories during the impeachment. Again, and again, and again and it never ends. Talk about beating a dead horse. :eyeroll:

How often does one need to be found suckering for these articles before they catch on??????


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## huntin1

So, the mainstream media, those pillars of honesty and integrity are caught in a lie, again.



> A media bombshell that relied heavily on unnamed sources has been denounced as a dud by a Pentagon official who is not afraid to put his name to his words.
> ABC reported Wednesday that a November report from the National Center for Medical Intelligence predicted the coronavirus that started in the Chinese city of Wuhan would become a "cataclysmic" event. ABC's report, which said briefings on the subject took place throughout late 2019, was based on sources who, unsurprisingly, weren't identified."The timeline of the intel side of this may be further back than we're discussing," ABC reported that a source said, concerning early reports from China. "But this was definitely being briefed beginning at the end of November as something the military needed to take a posture on."
> But the ABC report referenced a report that does not exist, Col. R. Shane Day, the director of the NCMI, said in a statement to Fox News.
> "As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters," the statement said. "However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists," he said.


https://www.westernjournal.com/pentagon ... ve-tribune

:eyeroll:

Can we say fake news. :laugh:


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## huntin1

oops, plainsman beat me to it.


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## Plainsman

huntin1 said:


> oops, plainsman beat me to it.


But I was going off memory from a couple hours ago and didn't remember it as well as you. Thanks for the clear post.

Edit: All these lies. I'm really beginning to wonder if the left engineered and blew this thing out of proportion to destroy the economy in the hopes people are dumb enough to not remember who brought about this great economy. Every time I read another post that isn't true I think less and less of the left.


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## Chuck Smith

WOW...&#8230;

You mean the MEDIA LIED..... no way... Who is the real enemy of the people?? I think the media is worse than AOC.... well maybe. oke:

Also on the bill that the Dem's in the Senate shot down. It is to add more money to the paycheck bill that past last week and kicked off and is finding more people want to enroll in it.

The Dem's added in money for Hospitals and Government (State and Local). I think it was an additional $250 billion.

Not sure exactly what for. But as of now I don't see if it is tied to COVID...but again I didn't get a complete run down of what those add ons are for. But yet again nobody can pass a clean bill to help.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/09/senate-de ... ess-loans/

The article talks about the bill. It sounds more like someone playing games just like the Republican did in the House. Someone wants a different type of vote or something. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

If you don't think that the media is to blame for anything and not spreading TRUTH....

CBS got caught again using the Italian footage of hospitals when talking about the outbreak in PHILLY.....

Truth in journalism is dead. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

https://kttc.com/2020/04/10/mayo-clinic ... employees/

So Hospitals, Clinics, Health institutions are now seeing lay offs and cuts.... HMMMMMMMM.... maybe they are sitting idle because it isn't as bad as we think. Maybe start to open up some stuff for them.

I talked with many friends who work for Mayo or work in the medical industry...ie: pharma, medical device sales, medical supply sales, testing facilities, IT for clinics and hospitals, etc.

All say they are sitting IDLE. People who work in the OGBYN doing nothing sitting idle.... people in pediatrics sitting idle.... etc. Some are RN's, LPN's, PA's, etc. All are on stand by if things go to the worse case scenario... but they could be getting wages cut, fourloughed, etc. Maybe each state should look at this and maybe open things up.

I know the MN Gov. Walz said he is going to look at and possibly start to open places up piece by piece in the up coming weeks. Lets hope so.


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## Plainsman

The media keeps posting lies because so many want to believe it. Look at this site and it's posts. No matter how many times we find it's a lie they fall for the next bash Trump that comes along no matter how silly it is. oke: oke: oke: Next


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## Resky

Chuck Smith said:


> All say they are sitting IDLE. People who work in the OGBYN doing nothing sitting idle.... people in pediatrics sitting idle.... etc.


Okay so we want someone from OGBYN to come in and tell us to spread our legs so they can diagnose whats wrong. Or maybe someone from pediatrics to roll you over and burp you. No thanks, I'd rather someone with special training for this virus in the room working on me.

Speaking of rooms, most hospitals only have a few of the special rooms required for someone with this virus. Those rooms operate with a partial vacuum to keep air from leaving the room. Every time a doctor or nurse leaves one of those rooms they have to strip and dis guard the masks, gowns, and other protective gear they were wearing. What do they do if they run out of those special rooms, they make temporary rooms that are not as effective. If a ventilator is being used it takes a special trained person to constantly monitor it.

I think the Professionals know what they are doing. Certainly more than I and Monday morning quarterbacks.


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## Chuck Smith

You are not getting what I am saying....

HOSPITALS ARE SITTING IDLE.... even the COVID area's. Only thing getting hammered in MN and much of the Midwest is the testing.

Also all nurses can handle what is going on with the COVID. They can see patients. If you don't think if things HIT THE FAN... that they would be switching every nurse over to help with this stuff.

Also when talking with these people who WORK IN HOSPITALS.... they are telling me how empty the COVID areas are.

Again this is a good thing. But also shows that they could open back up some stuff.

Also in MN on sunday they reported 194 new cases. Those numbers are skewed. I read on MPR that they released numbers that wouldn't have been released until Monday. So for what ever reason they released them. So the actual daily increase was more like 100 not 200 new cases in a day. But still is a spike. So now the numbers will be skewed and not show good or bad movement in the numbers because of this one day.


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## Chuck Smith

So the numbers came out today for MN.... 29 Cases. You see what I mean how this is skewing data.

We need to see what this weeks brings.... because now if it goes back to about the 3% increases from number of tests completed... that will bring the numbers back up to the 70-90 a day of new cases. But if now we get only 30-50 cases a day. then we will know it is either staying the same 3% course or it is flattening out or decreasing.

I hope they did that "purge" of cases to hope catch up to the testing back log so we will now have more accurate daily numbers. But I still don't see why they did this.

Only time will tell.

hopefully in MN we see that 30 or so cases is the new "average' per day. That way the Gov can start to loosen up his stay at home order.

I personally see that Schools will not reopen. Since most after the May 1 order only have a month or so left. But we need the restaurants, lodges (think summer time economy in Northern MN), bars/taverns, Hair establishments, malls, etc. He can start to open up slowly and then the bigger "gathering" type places after. But time will tell come May 1 or so.


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## Plainsman

You know how liberals everywhere like to say Trump didn't take this serious soon enough? They are naive or dishonest. Dr Fauci is there here and he knows what he is doing right? Google Dr. Fauci january. Read it, he says the virus is nothing for the American people to worry about. Fauci is an old Obama hold over and treacherously and dumping on Trump.


> Dr. Anthony Fauci, the Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases and one of the lead White House Coronavirus Task Force members, is on record telling Newsmax in January that the coronavirus was "not a major threat."


 https://saraacarter.com/jan-flashback-d ... ed-states/

Trump closed travel to China five days later and was called a racist for doing it and for doing it to soon.

The only thing that can take Trump down is the economy. The impeachment didn't work and bam instantly we have Corvid19. I don't think it was any accident. i think China didn't mind at all letting even a million of their overpopulation die. Our liberals also try to make this as hard on the economy as possible. Not unlike the Obama administration. The left is pushing for socialism or communism at all cost. This may again require the blood of patriots to insure our continued freedom.


----------



## Chuck Smith

This is a video of Steven Crowder making fun of MSNBC talking about how this virus is "RACIST".... yes people are saying that the actual virus is racist.

It is crazy how people turn anything and everything into RACISM. Crowder makes some good points about it.

It is more "Ageism" than anything because old people are the demographic that is dying the most.


----------



## Canuck

According to himself, Donald Trump has ABSOLUTE POWER over all off you. Bow down to your new King...Every time I think he can't get any worse he open his mouth and proves me wrong. He needs to re-read your country's Constitution and then have someone explain it to him. Still his followers (that'd be you folks) will follow him blindly.


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## Plainsman

Canuck your taking his answer completely out of context. I dont remember if the question was about opening up. or closing down business. It applied only to closing when a national emergency is declared I think. Also this is the first time in history a national emergency has been in all states so that provision in the constitution may not have been encountered before.

The only thing absolute is the false aspect of your ststement.


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## Canuck

"I dont remember" and "I dont think" clearly indicate you are following blindly, as I said.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Canuck....

I watched that whole exchange yesterday.

1. During a national emergency declared by every state and the "union" or country. The president has absolute powers over the states. Which means he can tell them what to do and not to do as long as it doesn't infringe on constitutional rights.

2. He also stated that no Gov. wants to keep their respective state "shut down" and he is going to take it case by case if it comes to that point.

3. The Stupid reporters (two of them) kept going off on him about this. Asking well what "if" they don't what will you do. he stated over and over that he will work with the Govenors to open up the states case by case if it comes to that point.

4. After those reporters kept badgering him and going back to this. He stated... I DONT WANT TO HAVE TO USE THIS AUTHORITY nobody does. The Govenors are doing great jobs for their states. They have a better grasp of what is going on in their states than "we do, the federal government", so that is why I will work with them case by case.

All of this exchange was to goad Trump into making sound bites by which you jumped on. If you watched the whole exchange you honestly would have been ****** at the reporters like I was. Because Trump explained a lot but instead of listening they went directly to the phones trying to look up info instead of listening to the answer.

Same thing goes for what was circulating yesterday... FIRING FAUSI.... Trump came out and directly stated he wont fire him. Yet the same 2 reporters jumped all over it. Trump said he "retweeted" someone with an opinion about "Fire Fausi". It wasn't his direct words and he respects Fausi input and that they both have different opinions. But the media wouldn't let that answer sit. They kept pushing and pushing.

Then those same two reporters.... went off on the little video that Trump showed them that proving that Trump did things early. His time line is spot on. He then explains how can you "shut down" a nations when 1 case shows up? How can you put in exec. orders stopping manufacturing and switch over to medical supplies when 1 case shows up? Stuff of that nature which is spot on. He goes on about how would the press and the public react if he did those things. Which he is 100% correct. :bop: :bop: But those two reporters instead of saying... you are right kept prodding and arguing. They also went after the video saying it was a "campaign ad" and was trying to say that his Campaign did it. They called it a "re-election" video. Trump said not it is informative since you the "fake news" don't report anymore. Which is very true. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

Just now when I open up MSN.... three titles of articles.

1. Trump Falsely claims "ultimate authority" over states. Written by the NY Times

2. Cuomo warns Trump about opening up NY too soon. Written by NBC news

3. Trump uses virus briefing to focus on himself. Written by Washington Post.

Article 1.... if you read it, it states that he has authority on interstate commerce and travel along with international travel, etc. He has control of that. It also talks about how the Congress has authority as well to over "rule" states and what not when it comes to commerce.

Article 2... Coumo came out yesterday was saying he wants to open up NYC before the president. Now he is back tracking.... interesting.

Article 3... If you watched the briefing... he talked about how the Feds are doing good ramping up the ventilators and nobody is "screaming" for them. In fact they are not using all the ones they have now on hand. That the ship in NYC is sitting empty. The hospital beds that people screamed for are sitting empty....etc. He talked about how this country stepped up and helped everyone. He talked about how the numbers went from 2.5 million dead down to maybe 60,000 now. He in the same breathe says that is still too many and a bad thing but this shows how the country stepped up as a whole. It wasn't about himself it was about what the country did. :bop:


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## Canuck

This is what I heard...granted I was NOT watching Fox News...and I am Canadian, eh.

Trump said on Monday he believed he had "total authority" over states in terms of the U.S. corona virus response, a stance that is not supported by the Constitution and was immediately rejected by legal experts and some governors.

"If he ordered me to reopen in a way that would endanger the public health of the people of my state, I wouldn't do it," Cuomo said in an interview with CNN.

Cuomo said the country's founders had already settled the matter.

"We had this argument. It was done a long time ago. People by the name of Hamilton, and Jefferson and Madison and Washington. And they concluded this. They wrote a document that's called the Constitution of the United States."

"It says the federal government does not have absolute power," said Cuomo. "It says the exact opposite of what the president said. It says that would be a king."


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## Canuck

Does anyone have any idea why Canada's death toll from the virus is 780, while the rate in the USA is 23,711 . That is 30 times higher while the population is 10 times higher.

I don't mean anything by this Just wondering why nobody mentions this.


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## Chuck Smith

> Trump said on Monday he believed he had "total authority" over states in terms of the U.S. corona virus response, a stance that is not supported by the Constitution and was immediately rejected by legal experts and some governors.


This isn't what he said. It was he stated to OPEN BACK UP THE ECONOMY... which is interstate commerce he has the authority.

Also you might want to watch fox news because they are the only ones showing his briefing in full and not doing cut aways. Then you can see for your own eyes what really is said and not stated by a political bias... and yes that is also a dig at fox when they "re-report" things.

One thing about commerce people don't every think about is some is regulated by the Feds another is regulated by states. Such as beauty (hair stylists), Insurance, Real Estate, construction/contractors, etc. Think of anything that people need a "state" license to do. Those are regulated by the state. But also by the feds as well there are federal guidelines and then the states. So Trump could come out and say.... open up all beauty shops.... well the state could also say.. NOPE. Because it is also regulated by the States.



> "If he ordered me to reopen in a way that would endanger the public health of the people of my state, I wouldn't do it," Cuomo said in an interview with CNN.


So again Cuomo speaks with "forked" tongue. He was yesterday saying he wants to open up before the feds come in and tell him to open up. Then he states this. But again I am betting CNN never quoted Trump stating that he wants to work with each state on a case by case basis on the best way to open up. HMMMMM.... so you don't think he isn't listening to Govenors or the States.

Another thing Trump stated in his "briefing" that was all about him... uke: uke: uke: On how the states are doing good jobs. And he is listening to them and trying to help as much as he can. He made the comment about I can't come in and say... You need a testing facility in Walmart parking lot. The State knows where they need that testing facility and they direct me on where it should go. I am working with them. So something along those lines. you see how the media gets things so screwed up.

I was watching it and it reminded me of the scene in the movie A Few Good Men... where Tom Cruise wants to get Jack Nicholson to burst out. It is exactly what the media is trying to get Trump to do. They want him to say things so they can get a "gotcha" moment. WHICH IS COMPLETE BS TO DO IN A TIME OF A NATIONAL EMERGENCY. They should report facts, info, progress, or regression of the epidemic, testing, cases, etc. Not push agenda's.

Also to go off my other post about how hospitals are empty and what not. I saw this on twitter that someone commented that if this is such a "crisis" why on the app TIK TOK are there so many stupid dance videos of nurses in empty hospitals. So that goes back to my point about opening up state by state hospitals so they can get back working in a normal function. You can still have a "wing" or area designated for COVID and beds ready to rock. But open up slowly your OBGYN, your Pediatrics, your "elective" surgery stuff, your "rehabilitation" stuff, etc. Let Dentists go back to work with some "guidelines", your eye care, etc. Take things in baby steps but open back up. Especially states that are showing "decreases" in things. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

> Does anyone have any idea why Canada's death toll from the virus is 780, while the rate in the USA is 23,711 . That is 30 times higher while the population is 10 times higher.


A few things to look at...

1. Reporting. Like mentioned if someone dies in a car accident in the USA but test positive for COVID... they are in that 20K number. It is how they want it reported. Like if cancer is the reason you are in a hospice situation and could go at any moment but you get COVID... COVID is the reason you died not the terminal cancer.

2. NYC has over 10,000 of the 23,000 deaths. Look how they live. Public transportation, one of the biggest airports in the world, they live on top of each other, etc. So close contact is happening. Not saying Canada doesn't have close contact but is it like NYC? With density of population per sq mile. I don't know the facts for sure just observation.

3. Canadian Citizens are "healthier" per capita than people in the USA. Less obese people, less diabetics, less over all underlying conditions.

4. With the reporting angle.... Hospitals in the USA are getting "kick backs" in funding if things are COVID related. Are they doing that in Canada?

Just things to think about when you see numbers. Just like with Italy... one of the oldest populations in the world (older people are more suspect to dying from COVID). They live in confined or smaller areas. So living on top of each other. They live in multi generational housing...ie: Grandparents, Parents, Kids, and possible Grandkids all living under the same roof. etc. Demographics play a key role in all of this and the data. :bop:


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## Canuck

That is one hell of an exaggeration of numbers if that is the reason.

World health data do show that Canada has a lower infant mortality rate and that Canadians live longer. As well, Canadians do have less underlying issues like diabetes but our lifestyles are quite similar so I don't think that totally explains the variation. Our medical system does not tend to create competition with itself (i.e between Provinces). It is a made in Canada system not some Commie Pinko thing???

I think you have overlooked one thing...this virus has united our country. We have not politicized the issue. In fact the opposite is true. Our politicians are totally getting along (granted it is not an election year) and Provinces are sharing PPE's sending them to cities our facilities where they are needed. We have totally bought into the social distancing. We closed things down very quickly, and us obedient people saw what we had to do. Not easy for many. No problem for most.People my age were too young for war although Vietnam would have seen me drafted but for my bone spurs (JK). This is our opportunity to do what we can for our country.


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## Plainsman

> World health data do show that Canada has a lower infant mortality rate and that Canadians live longer.


 BCk when everyone was debating Obamacare I came across some interesting things sboit infant mortality. In many of the socialized med countries if a child lives past only a few hours it isnt considered an infant death. In the United States if a child dies many days later its condidered an infant mortality. If all countries followed the same criteria we would have one ofvthe lowest mortalities. I think the reason its done different is the socilized med countries are hidjng their failures.

Hey Chuck did you know the bimbo giving Trump a bad time is tied tightly to China? I forget the entire relationship, but her busband works for China. My wife found the information. Ill see if she still has it on our computer.

Edit: Those who continually post false news articles are the lemmings.


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## Canuck

"socilized med countries are hidjng their failures."

There is an interesting concept...hide your failures with success...

The comparison I saw used the same criteria for all countries. Child mortality was measured as the probability per 1,000 live births that a newborn baby will die before reaching age five under current age-specific mortality patterns for that country. So a bit of room for individualism but very little room.

Interestingly the USA had 80 times the number of people raped versus Canada, so maybe 30 times more corona victims is somehow 
an acceptable relative number all things from religion to politics to health to population density so to speak, being considered?


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## Plainsman

Surprise CBS fake news Trump-hater Paula Reid went hysterical in todays press conference.

Her jusband Jason Reid is a lobbyist for China!

Worked at the American in Chamber of Commerce in China
Went to college at Peking University in Beijing, China

Yup no bias there.


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## Canuck

Chuck Smith said:


> Another thing Trump stated in his "briefing" that was all about him... uke: uke: uke:
> 
> That is what I find most irksome. He wastes the time of so many people looking to their President for leadership and guidance. Trump must be mildly autistic or something. Might explain why he is so awkward socially and intellectually.
Click to expand...


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## Chuck Smith

> Hey Chuck did you know the bimbo giving Trump a bad time is tied tightly to China? I forget the entire relationship, but her husband works for China. My wife found the information. Ill see if she still has it on our computer.


I saw that as well. Her hubby works for and went to school over in CHINA and what not.

Canuck...

You are 100% correct about the politics of this whole situation. It goes along with the fact that Trump could cure cancer and people will say he did something horrible. It is the divide in this country. Like I have shown over and over. One day a Democratic governor says trump did good then the next they say he did horrible. WHICH IS IT? That is why yesterday he showed that time line and video. Showing the media at play and trying to turn things against him. Like the interview with Fausi. The CNN one. If you watch it in its entirety he was trying to avoid the sound bite they ran with. He kept skirting it and skirting it. Saying that the president is listening and doing good. But yet the interviewer wouldn't take his answers and wanted to get a "sound bite" and kept pushing and pushing until he got it. If you watched yesterdays briefing he walked away from a question because the person was trying to turn things around. It was the same woman that plainsman and I are talking about above. :bop:

Also Canuck on the data and what I talked about.... there is roughly 22k difference in deaths from USA to Canada on this virus. Remember most of the deaths in the USA are elderly and with underlying conditions. In my county I live in there is something like 10 deaths from COVID.... you know where they all are coming from an elderly care facility. 5 of the Obituaries I read that have come from that care facility stated the people had bouts with cancer, have CPOD or some other respritory alement, etc. So was it covid that took them down or the other factors. The yearly FLU could have done the exact same thing. Yet they are chalking it up to COVID.

So data is getting skewed for some reason. We need to find why is it? Is it something to go after China with? Is it to hurt the president? Is it to get funding or to defund the WHO? Is it to secure funding for hospitals in a national budget? We don't know what they want to use this data for.

Also you talk about the Social Distancing.... Some Govenors and states thumbed their nose at Trump... NYC was one of them.... oke: When he came out with guidelines. Some States are still not listening or put in place stay at home orders. BTW... I am trying to find the Clip of the Gov. of SD going after the media saying they are not reporting the TRUTH.... which is very accurate.

Anyways.... want to look at some data.

Remember I talked about how MN pushed two days worth of data into a "one day total"... which saw cases go up to 194... then yesterday was 29.... now today is 45. So we need to see if the trend stays in that 45 range or jumps back up into the 90's or 80's. Again I don't know why they did that "dump" of data. Unless it was to get more accurate because of the speed of testing and results. Because testing went from 1600 down to 800's today. WHY???? you see we are not getting accurate data because they keep moving goal posts or is because WE as a society are moving quickly to combat this. Which is exactly what the president stated yesterday in his briefing which the media is twisting to say is "ALL ABOUT HIM"... when he is talking about our country as a whole.


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## Chuck Smith

> That is what I find most irksome. He wastes the time of so many people looking to their President for leadership and guidance. Trump must be mildly autistic or something. Might explain why he is so awkward socially and intellectually.


The problem is that he wasn't making the new conference about him. He was showing how the media is LYING to the people. If he wouldn't get hammered with stupid questions and have to defend every single word he says it would be a totally different thing.

The press goes off when he uses the words "We" and "our". They don't realize he is talking about the country as a whole not his office. This is how stupid the press is.

Also I think you are correct about him. I am betting he has some sort of social or intellectual disorder. Look how he always has to interject words or adjectives when he speaks. Its greatest, best, spectacular, etc. Or the opposite... you are horrible, fake, etc. it is like his mind is going too fast that he has to say these things in order for his "mouth" to catch up. It is like when you talk to some people and you see their minds are moving faster than they can project words. Everyone learns away to cope with it. Some people slow speech down, some pause a lot when they talk, others have studders, etc. Some people make noises or say UMMMM or speak "valley talk"...ie: Like you know the beach like is so rad like the waves like crash in like the sun is amazing like.... :beer:

I am sure we all know people who if were in school years ago would be diagnoised with a disorder by todays standards. :thumb:


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## Plainsman

> The comparison I saw used the same criteria for all countries.


 Pure unadulterated bs. If Canada and England counted infant mortality using the same age criteria as the United States your infant mortality would triple.



> Might explain why he is so awkward socially and intellectually.


 Many highly intelligent people are like that. 



> The yearly FLU could have done the exact same thing. Yet they are chalking it up to COVID.


 I don't have facebook, but I was shown a post where a lady said her son just passed away and it had nothing to do with Covid19, but that's how the doctors listed it. She asked why and was told that's how we get funding.

I think the disparity between Canada and the U S in deaths is due to our ties with China that are to close and results in a lot of people going to China, and them coming to the U S. There is a professor in Boston being charged with espionage, but you don't hear much about it on the news. Our media is the enemy in more than one avenue.

China is sure getting its hooks into Hollywood. Maybe they want a media outlet to control the narrative. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=y ... Y8Nfzcn1qQ This is worth the time if your not already in the socialist bag.


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## Plainsman

Here you go Canuck watch and learn. Learn about your hero Fauci and about the difference of dying from corona and dying with carona.


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## Chuck Smith

This is the "blonde" that Plainsman and I have been talking about. The one who's hubby works for CHINA.

But this is a snippet of the briefing yesterday.

But you see wasn't it about a week or so ago the "media" was telling us it wasn't CHINA's fault. Now they want to know if there is going to be reprocussions against China because they did this to the world. oke: You see how they flip flop so quickly. Plus why would any world leader announce what they will do before they do it?



> Our media is the enemy in more than one avenue.


 I was never this down on the media until this past year or so. I wasn't always on the "fake news" bandwagon. But the more and more you watch stuff with your own eyes you will see the media... YES ALL OF IT... isn't there for truth and giving info. It is all agenda driven by whom ever signs their pay checks. How many false stories are proven on this thread and others in the hot topics forum. It is becoming almost daily if not weekly. :bop: So I am more and more with the "FAKE NEWS" bandwagon. Also our President says enough stupid things daily they could use as sound bites. But they want to attack and attack and attack. it isn't the sound bites of people misspelling potato or other gaffes in the past. It is a pure distain for him that they want to hurt him even if it hurts our country.

Canuck you are correct about how if a country doesn't politized something things can get done. But our country wont let that happen. Look how Dem's in Congress are holding up 250 billion for small businesses to try and add pork to a bill. When that first funding is only having 100 billion left in funding. They want to make sure it doesn't run out. Yet the Dem's want it to run out so they can add in pork and get it passed. I know they are screaming "funding" for hospitals. But like Trump stated yesterday in his briefing... The first bill that gave funding towards hospitals isn't even used up or half gone. So why do it in this bill.... do it in the next one. He is calling Phase 4. When one program is ready to run out and is seeing increases in applications. GET THAT FUNDING TO THE PEOPLE. yet they are playing games. uke:


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## Chuck Smith

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... id=DELLDHP

Here is an article showing some of the "double talk" by everyone and think of some of the headlines you have read on some news outlets...



> On Monday, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy, Connecticut Gov. Ned Lamont and governors from Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Delaware announced a "coordinated" regional response effort to reopen amid the coronavirus crisis.
> 
> "We should start looking forward to 'reopening', but reopening with a plan and a smart plan because if you do it wrong, it can backfire," Cuomo said during the event.
> 
> He added: "No one has done this before - it's one step forward after research and consultation with experts - I'm not a public health expert but this has to be informed by experts."


Now you read about Cuomo saying Trump better not reopen his state.... REALLY!!!!

Here is some of what the president has said...



> The president is planning to launch an "Opening our Country" task force focused on that effort.
> 
> The president vowed Friday to listen to experts should they recommend a further extension of the White House social distancing guidelines.
> 
> The president went on to vow that he would listen to experts before making any decision, saying: "We're not doing anything until we know that this country is going to be healthy. We don't want to go back and start doing it over again."


So who is speaking Truth and who isn't? That is why the media is the enemy. They are not helping at all with this. Because they are the ones not telling the whole Truth. AGAIN THIS GOES FOR ALL STATIONS. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

> Candace Owens Retweeted Donald J. Trump
> 
> Every time a hospital admits, discharges, or loses a patient to Covid-19, they are compensated 15% more according to the CARES ACT, SEC 4409.
> 
> NYC was facing a hospital budget crisis and you fixed it for them. They are inflating all of their #coronavirus numbers.


This is a tweet from Candace Owens. She leans very right and is critical of the President at times. But could this be an answer for the # of COVID deaths we are seeing. Also go along with what I talked about before. oke:

This could be very scary if it is true they are inflating numbers to get $$$. :bop: :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

Remember how they wanted to form committee saying he down played the whole Virus stuff and wanted it to be IMPEACHABLE.... well yesterdays little video shows he wasn't.

It shows who is playing politics with this. :bop: :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

This shows you the hypocrisy in all of this and the media...


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## Plainsman

They were interviewing liberals on the street. They asked would you rather have Corona for a long time with many deaths or Trump for for more years. A large majority said they woukd rather have the Corina even with the deaths. 
I remember one of my posts where I said liberals wanted the economy to fail so they coukd getbrid of Trump eben if people die. I said whats the death of a few thousand adults after they kill 60 million babies. Maybe not my exact words, but I dont feel like going back looking to get every word right. Anyway I thought I see would be seen as a little overboard even by y conservative friends. Ill never underestimate liberal evil after hearing those people pick death of others over Trump in office. They sure put a high value on thier perversions.


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## Canuck

I don't want to get all wound up in a political discussion but it is possibly important to note that yesterday the USA saw the highest number of Covid-19 related deaths yet (2,407).

The numbers (as fake as they may be) are not yet going down.


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## Plainsman

It would not appear so. I do suspect the death rate lags the infection rate by a few days. If infectiond are down now its logical to expect the death rate to follow in a week or so. If we could average the time from infection to death that would tell us the lag time. I guess thats only important if we base the peak of the curve on death rate, and not infectin rate. Infection rate is rather nebulouse since not all infections are detected.


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## Canuck

Plainsman I will look at the video link you sent. In fact I started to view the trailer and decided I wanted to see the original post on Youtube. The video had been removed and I gt this message..."Video that violates the community guidelines users agreed to when they post content on YouTube has been removed". The video may be available in other locations. I guess they feel folks in my area are too sensitive or something. :rollin:

Does that have anything to do with your conspiracy theory do you think?

Oh and one last thing...Do you consider yourself a woke individual like the makers of Out of the Shadows?


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## Chuck Smith

So more on the data...

MN just saw an increase in cases to 114 today from yesterdays 45 and the day before 29. But like I mentioned on Sunday they did a "data dump" and we had 194 cases. But it came out that it included data that should have been done on Monday and so on. Still don't know what they did it. Nobody has explained it. We need to be consistency.

But all I know is it shows a "spike" now in the data where if they would have let if flow like it was it would be on par with what the data has shown all along... a 5% infection rate of people tested. But now there is a "spike" in any graph. But today is an 10% increase... but with the data dump I am not sure how accurate it is. It is honestly throwing the data off because of the inconsistency they did over the weekend. Now we need another week or so of data to get back on a constant.

Still wondering why it was done. I don't have a positive or negative spin on this or can think of anything political. Just showing how data can be changed to show things is all.


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## Plainsman

> Oh and one last thing...Do you consider yourself a woke individual like the makers of Out of the Shadows?


Woke uke: I hate psycho babble. The first time I heard the term Obama was speaking. I guess some people need to make up new words to make themselves feel cool and relevent.

Canuck I have the feeling your one of us baby boomers and knew you could have some fun. :thumb:


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## Canuck

Plainsman I had to look it up  and when I did I laughed and sent my question your way. :beer: 
Hey you asked if I was a Christian.


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## Plainsman

Touche :thumb:


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## Plainsman

I remember Obama talking about the woke generation. Then we have Pelosi wanting to drop the voting age to 16. 16???? Im familiar with people that age. They dont know crap from apple butter. Pelosi knows they are public school brain washed is why she wants them voting. Our public schools are sort of like Chinese retrainment camps.

Ever pay attention to ads. Women have to teach husbands how to buy a car and school girls have to teach thier father which water purifier to buy. Nothing dumber than an adult man if you watch tv. Maybe they have to take away our right to vote.


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## Canuck

Back to Covid-19....again today the USA had another record numbers of deaths.

Could lack of knowledge or stubborn stupidity contribute to the problem? I ask because yesterday, President Trump's main adviser, Kelly Anne Conway stated that the WHO messed things up having had 18 chances to fix the problem. The USA has things under control because they are not dealing with Covid-1. They are dealing with the 19th variation of the virus so they know it well. She is echoing that idiot Rush Limbauh who has been saying the same thing.

Do they not know that Covid is a novel (new) virus that was identified in 2019 hence the 19?

Hopefully Canada will not let Trump open our borders on May 1.

Stupidity.


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## Plainsman

So you would likewise agree that Biden is stupid because he calls it Covid 1?

Also there are many states with only a few cases. California with its high population is doing well, but New York is doing terrible. Whats the difference? This should not even be political, but the hate runs to deep. Hate beyond logic. As an example when Trump closed travel to China the left called him a racist and xenophobic, they laughed about the virus, and Pelosi was encouraging people to come to China town and party. Now they call him a fool and blame deaths on him for not closing sooner. Its obvious by their actions and words they would have closed later if at all. They are terrible human beings.

I don't blame Cuomo for the problems with the virus in New York, but the democrats are small people looking to blame. When you have no ideas you blame others. Their whole campaign will be blame game with few ideas at least ideas based on what has worked or by logic what will work. Watch.


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## Canuck

Plainsman you hit the nail on the head. Instead of rolling up their sleeves and putting their heads together to solve the problem the politicians waste their time blaming each other. It seems to go around and around and around and along with all the lies it gets to the point where I can't watch anymore. Then the feeling passes and you go back and look again...same old story.

There will be a lot to look at and analyze why some jurisdictions seem to cope way better than others. I tried to query that by asking why the death rate was so high in the USA when compared to your nearest neighbour. Honestly I think it boils down to our politics being less confrontational and our people being more willing to close every thing down and self-isolate. For many of us rural/remote folks that means almost nothing has changed. We seem more willing (compliant) to wait it out. Now if fishing season is closed Watch Out.

EDIT Yes I also think Biden is not up to the task of beating Trump in an election. He is a little slow on the draw at his age it seems.
Still, a lot of the world would like to see the USA with a better leader. I wish the Republicans could replace Trump with someone better.
By better I mean smarter, less confrontational, able to take and discuss criticism in order to improve, not needing constant stroking of his ego, etc. etc. etc.


----------



## speckline

Canuck said:


> Plainsman you hit the nail on the head. Instead of rolling up their sleeves and putting their heads together to solve the problem the politicians waste their time blaming each other. It seems to go around and around and around and along with all the lies it gets to the point where I can't watch anymore. Then the feeling passes and you go back and look again...same old story.
> 
> There will be a lot to look at and analyze why some jurisdictions seem to cope way better than others. I tried to query that by asking why the death rate was so high in the USA when compared to your nearest neighbour. Honestly I think it boils down to our politics being less confrontational and our people being more willing to close every thing down and self-isolate. For many of us rural/remote folks that means almost nothing has changed. We seem more willing (compliant) to wait it out. Now if fishing season is closed Watch Out.
> 
> EDIT Yes I also think Biden is not up to the task of beating Trump in an election. He is a little slow on the draw at his age it seems.
> Still, a lot of the world would like to see the USA with a better leader. I wish the Republicans could replace Trump with someone better.
> 
> By better I mean smarter, less confrontational, able to take and discuss criticism in order to improve, not needing constant stroking of his ego, etc. etc. etc.


Just a cursory analysis of a few of the hotpots show that those areas didn't implement the stay at home order promptly. IE. Mayor deblasio telsl new yorkers to ride the subway and buses in the cities. This was on March 2! Florida allowing spring break partying when covid was in full swing, La allowing Marti Gras to proceed. Each area is a major hotspot now, whereas CA, WA, OR implemented mitigation promptly and show the opposite trends.
I also saw a midwest comparison of IL, WI, IN, MI, N responses and MI lagged behind the others and intuitively is a reason behind there hotpot in comparison...


----------



## Chuck Smith

Canuck...

If you want to really see how POOR our politics are right now.

THe Paycheck Protection Program just ran out of Funding for small businesses. For over 1 week people have been saying it needed funding, Senate Majority Leader McConnel has a bill all ready to go. But the Minority Leader is holding it up as well as the Majority Leader in the House of Reps is holding it up. They had it all ready to go on a non partisan funding clean bill. Only to fund that program. Yet Democrats held it up and added PORK to it. Just like they did with the first bill. Which now are screaming that TRUMP is holding up the checks. When infact the checks would have already been out in peoples hands if Pelosi and Schummer didn't hold that first bill up for 5 days. oke: oke:

Like you mentioned these idiots should all get together for the good of the people. Especially in a time of a pandemic. Yet they are not. They are playing games with the citizens lives. I will also throw in or under the bus that idiot Rep who wanted the "roll" call or what ever and held up the bill again for another day. He was a Republican. I will also throw under the bus anyone who sold stocks before this whole out break happened... BOTH DEM AND REP did this or had their significant others do the same. They sold, switched, etc Stocks to either companies that were going to flourish during this time (ie: Medical) or moved them into funds that are protected. This all needs to be investigated.... Which I believe Barr is doing. :bop:


----------



## Canuck

Chuck,

I sometimes wonder if US politics might benefit from a strong third party system. I know you can have other Independents but I am talking about a strong, consistent third party that keeps everyone honest. It seems like the pendulum hits the extremes but can not satisfy the middle of the road folks out there.?.?


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## Chuck Smith

You are 100% correct on that.

They thought the Tea party would possibly be that but it got swallowed up by the Republican party. Same goes for the onetime Green Party but it also got swallowed up by the Democratic.

Or it just needs to not be either so party centric. What I mean is if you look the past about 20 years or so everything seems to be across party lines. Just think about out. During a pandemic right now they cant bring themselves to vote as a single "country" first unit. It happened after 9/11 but since then.... NOPE. Everyone is too busy with identiy politics. They are afraid to catch the wrath of their "party".

Heck look how that one official from I think Georgia (I think). He is black and a Democrat and stated he throws his support towards Trump. he has been getting threats and people all angry at him. His response is... LOOK WHAT TRUMP HAS DONE. How could you not throw support towards him. That is what he has been tweeting and saying in interviews. But people have such a hate towards Trump. People dislike Obama but not to the extent that they show towards Trump. I know people will state that Obama had a "do nothing" congress. But some of the stuff he wanted to pass was very radical. Not centralized. That is the issue now.... nobody wants to play the game in the middle. They want the extreme. But the nation isn't "extreme" one way or another. 80% lay in the middle ground with a slight shift left or right.

If you have seen my posts over the years.... I always state this. No matter what political party you belong too you are not in the majority. 40% identify as Dem's 40% identify as Reps and 20% are "free" of a party or are very neutral. So you see no matter what you are in 40% or less if you go LEFT or RIGHT only voting. But congress or the elected officials just don't get it. Some try but rarely succeed.


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## Canuck

This may be totally simplistic but...if I was a gun owner I would have to vote Republican...if I was gay I would have to vote Democrat...

By the way I am one of the above.

Did I show you the buck I got last year? :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith

> This may be totally simplistic but...if I was a gun owner I would have to vote Republican...if I was gay I would have to vote Democrat...


The sad part is that you don't have to think that way. Lots of people are switching parties because of the extremes. Yes many people who are gay are switching because they feel the Dem's have gone off the deep end on things....and the Republicans are opening up more.

Like Plainsman has mentioned before... the current Republican party is actually the Democratic party from the 60's. John F Kennedy would have been Republican by todays standards. But it is the whole identity BS that is marring all of this. Like your example.... Gay = Dems Gun owner = Rep.


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## Chuck Smith

https://twitter.com/RepDanCrenshaw/stat ... 2818733056

Click on the thread below the video...This one is the first of 3 he did on twitter.

https://crenshaw.house.gov/videos/

If people can go look at the twitter page of Rep Crenshaw. It is amazing how he breaks down all of what is happening and how the media is pure BS. He shows a step by step of what actually is going on. He also states that people shouldn't be finger pointing and blaming anyone.

He talks about how the masks were depleted for the N1H1 virus and that the previous administration didn't have a crystal ball so why would they replenish. So no blame there.... isn't that some of the same things Trump has stated that is if you listen to the whole briefings and not the snippets by the media (YES BOTH FOX AND LIBERAL MEDIA IS TO BLAME).

He is actually pretty level headed on this issue and others. He gives facts. It is a good place to get info and then decide for yourself on things. :thumb:

Also anyone claiming DICTATOR TRUMP and what not. Here is a quote from John Turley... the Constitutional Scholar. BTW... he originally critized Trump about the press conference and the argument he gave to the reporter after being badgered by the reporter about he has "absolute authority".... well he does and doesn't... I wish I could find that tweet but it is burried. But this is what he said today.



> Jonathan Turley
> While the President continues to claim extraconstitutional authority in his "allowing" governors to use discretion in reopening their states, he is acting squarely within the Constitution. Once again, it is the action not the rhetoric that is the measure.


Which is the most accurate observation about Trump..... Don't listen to the rhetoric look at his actions.

A side observation.... Last night I was watching some Ted Nuggent stuff. Trump and Ted are a lot alike when they speak. They use way to many adjectives to try and get a point across. Which in turn makes people think they are stupid. Put if you listen to the actual message behind all the adjectives it is a good message most of the time and is well thought out. But it is hard to get thru the adjectives. Then to put on top of it all..... With todays society who take each letter of anything you say as "gospel" or to use against you (think the WOKE type crowd) using adjectives hurts you. Because if you say... It is the best... well someone can use google to find something better. If you say WE instead out OUR COUNTRY... they think you are only talking about yourself and people immediately around you. Which is the problem with our media and people. They need to listen to the whole message not 5 seconds of it. :bop:


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## Plainsman

The media and the political left are pro China. More so than pro United States. So maybe someone should have another perspective.


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## Canuck

HA HA that is pure Bulldung...no Covid in Beijing...HA HA
You Trump supporters are so gullible you believe any conspiracy theory in your entranced states...

https://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2020/01/22/coronavirus-count-in-beijing#virus_total_count

Lot more where this came from


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## Canuck

Here is one for you to chew on.
Yesterday Trump said that the USA has done more Covid tests that any other country. That is ... TRUE.
Yesterday Trump bragged that they do more testing per capita than South Korea does! That is ... TRUE.

Do you know how many countries do more samples per capita that South Korea and the USA do? 41 countries do more samples per one million people than S. Korea or the USA.

Trump tries to make the stat look like the USA is the BEST and that he is the BEST.

https://www.worldometers.info/coron...CBDjYQZTGD-_KWjdwhkfPBVm7iBy4MJFd4H6C0#c-all"

You can toggle the arrow at the top of each column to sort the data highest to lowest.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Canuck.... Did you also see where China keeps "revising" the actual number of cases of Covid&#8230;. and it is up over 50%. oke:

Also about the South Korea and USA comparison. The media has been hammering Trump about South Korea and the stats. That is why you hear him talking about them.

Here is another one to show you media BIAS....

An article in Politico 
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/1 ... nds-191378

They try to do a "hit" piece on him. This "Rent" was agreed and approved by the house of Reps... TWICE... and it is CHEAPER. But yet they want you to think it is illegal...and what not. So how can we believe the media when they spout lies. See above about china and other things I have posted.


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## Chuck Smith

We haven't heard from Ken in awhile.... I hope he is safe and healthy. :beer:

I also know he thinks we brow beat him on issues. But it is always nice to see the other side of the coin in a debate. Also thank you for Canuck for some debate or talking points on issues from a different perspective. :beer: oke:


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## huntin1

Canuck said:


> HA HA that is pure Bulldung...no Covid in Beijing...HA HA
> You Trump supporters are so gullible you believe any conspiracy theory in your entranced states...
> 
> https://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2020/01/22/coronavirus-count-in-beijing#virus_total_count
> 
> Lot more where this came from


Canuck, you are right, saying there is no Covid in Beijing is pure BS. Lets look at the numbers from the site you linked:

Beijing China, Total cases - 593, Deaths - 8.

Beijing's population is 21.54 million (2018)

in comparison,

New York City, population 8.54 million. Total cases - 222,284, Deaths - 15,498.

All things considered, I'd say that Beijing is relatively untouched by this thing, and the numbers in Shanghai are similar to Beijing.

A little more info, Wuhan to Beijing - 751 miles, Wuhan to NYC - 7,490 miles.

But you are right, it's just a conspiracy theory by the deplorable Trump supporters.


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## speckline

Ken logged on this AM, so it appears he's Ok :thumb: 
I lost a friend on another forum recently. It's good to keep track. 
Although I banter with Ken's on his political views, I will always respected his opinion! 
:beer:


----------



## Resky

Canuck said:


> You Trump supporters are so gullible you believe any conspiracy theory in your entranced states...


Well, I support Trump. Not because he is exceptionally smart. Not because he is perfect or a pleasure to listen to. I support him because he is doing a better job of running this country than the last three Presidents or any future presidents sitting in the wings. Having said that I'm getting awfully tired hearing you run down this country and calling all of us that do support Trump stupid and gullible. Personally I think if you can't be respectful of other countries and peoples views, you need to shut up and get a real life.


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## Plainsman

:crybaby: Canuck is that number in your artice correct, China only has 83k infections? We have over 600k. I do wonder why these flue infections are allways coming from China.

India is ticked. they dont believe anything coming out of China.



> Delhi Isn't Buying Beijing's Coronavirus Hero Act


Liberal sources will make a hero out of China. They support their fellow communists.

Google Corona Biejing, and you find both perspectives. however its the liberals that support China. Liberals are much more dangerous than corona.



> It's not often that iconic Bollywood actor Amitabh Bachchan tweets about a contentious geopolitical issue to his nearly 41 million followers. Last week he shared a meme doing the rounds in India-an illustration that showed World Health Organization chief Tedros Ghebreyesus blindfolded with a Chinese flag.


What I do know -----none of us know anything. To many liars. Speaking of gullible and entranced its called Trump Derangment Syndrome.


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## Canuck

Resky said:


> Canuck said:
> 
> 
> 
> You Trump supporters are so gullible you believe any conspiracy theory in your entranced states...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I support Trump. Not because he is exceptionally smart. Not because he is perfect or a pleasure to listen to. I support him because he is doing a better job of running this country than the last three Presidents or any future presidents sitting in the wings. Having said that I'm getting awfully tired hearing you run down this country and calling all of us that do support Trump stupid and gullible. * Personally I think if you can't be respectful of other countries and peoples views, you need to shut up and get a real life.*
Click to expand...

You're right. Trump gives me a bad taste in my mouth. One day you will look back and ask yourself what the hell you were all thinking. You folks like it better when nobody questions your position. Just like Trump. Deflect, blame, attack.
Have fun talking to yourselves.


----------



## Plainsman

Read your food labels. I hear Viet Nam is ticked because China is labeling things as coming from Viet Nam to avoid tariffs. Buy made or grown and processed in the USA or Canada.



> Maybe we can pick up a new virus from the sewage-fed fish and chickens? Meanwhile, many here believe the President is being 'mean' to China by slapping some tariffs on some of these imports.
> 
> FOOD FROM CHINA&#8230; Smithfield Farms, the largest pork producing farm in the USA, was sold in September to China with the unanimous support of its stockholders! The hogs will still be raised here, but slaughtered and packaged for sale there before being sent back here. This includes labels of:
> · Morrell
> · Eckric
> · Krakus
> · Cudahy
> · Premium Hams
> · Cook's
> · Gwaltney
> 
> Chickens
> The same applies to many chickens. They can now be shipped there, but when they come back all that needs to be labeled is that they 'WERE RAISED IN THE USA'. Not that they were processed in China!!!
> 
> Our great FDA at work again. The chickens will be all processed and most sold to fast food restaurants for sandwiches, along with schools and supermarkets. The China slaughter and processing are not nearly equal to the requirements here for cleanliness.
> 
> *BAD FOOD*
> We recently learned that Star-Kist Tuna is now owned by Korea, and is in big conflict with the U.S. concerning quality, safety, and records, which Korea refuses to produce. Read several articles on Google about this, and even one that was defending the eating of tilapia said to avoid the fish that came from China.
> 
> Also, I had just returned home from buying Albertson's 4-day special of 4 bags of frozen tilapia for the price of one. Sure enough, on the top of the bags, it read "farm raised", and on the bottom in small print it said, "China".
> 
> In general, farm raised fish should not be eaten because of the high concentration of antibiotics they are fed to prevent diseases due to being tightly confined with other fish.
> 
> Buy wild caught fish from North America, Hawaii or New Zealand. Read all the way to the end.
> 
> Recently a Food Inspector on TV said he had lived overseas and he had seen the filthy conditions their foods are raised and processed in. It is enough to make you throw up. Many of their fish on Fish Farms are fed raw sewage daily. He said he has seen so much filth throughout their food growing and processing that he would "never" eat any of it. They raise this filth, put some food coloring and some flavorings on it, then they ship it to the USA & Canada for YOU to consume and feed to YOUR families. They have no Food & Safety Inspectors. They ship it to you to buy and poison your families and friends.
> 
> Imported food we eat and the junk we buy:
> 
> Green Giant frozen vegetables are from China and so are most of Europe's Best.
> 
> Arctic Gardens are OK, so is Birdseye.
> 
> Never buy the grocery store garlic unless it is clearly marked from USA or Canada, the other stuff is grown in people poop(even worse than chicken poop). China is the largest producer of garlic in the world; U.S. is next.
> 
> Buy only local honey, much honey is shipped in huge containers from China and re-packed here.
> 
> Cold-FX is grown and packed in China and is full of fecal bacteria. Doesn't work anyway, big scam.
> If the country of origin is not clearly marked, beware!
> 
> If produce, ask an employee.
> 
> Watch out for packages which state "prepared for", "packed by" or "imported by". We don't understand the lack of mandatory labeling, especially on the produce.
> 
> The country of origin should be clearly shown on the item in the store.
> 
> Go to the local farmers' markets in season and keep a wary eye open the rest of the year.
> 
> How is it possible to ship food from China cheaper than having it produced in the U.S. or Canada?
> 
> FOR EXAMPLE THE "OUR FAMILY" BRAND OF MANDARIN ORANGES SAYS RIGHT ON THE CAN 'FROM CHINA '. - SO, for a FEW MORE CENTS, BUY THE *LIBERTY* BRAND.
> 
> GOLD BRAND or DOLE is from CALIFORNIA.
> 
> Beware, Costco sells canned peaches and pears in a plastic jar that come from China.
> 
> ALL "HIGH LINER" AND MOST OTHER FROZEN FISH PRODUCTS COME FROM CHINA OR INDONESIA. THE PACKAGE MAY SAY "PACIFIC SALMON" ON THE FRONT, BUT LOOK FOR THE SMALL PRINT. MOST OF THESE PRODUCTS COME FROM FISH FARMS IN THE ORIENT WHERE THERE ARE NO REGULATIONS ON WHAT IS FED TO THESE FISH.
> 
> Recently The Montreal Gazette had an article by the Canadian Government on how Chinese feed the fish: They suspend chicken wire crates over the fish ponds, and the fish feed on chicken poop. If you search the internet about what the Chinese feed their fish, you'll be alarmed e.g.: growth hormones, expired antibiotic from humans?
> 
> Never buy any type of fish or shellfish that comes from these countries:
> •• Vietnam
> •• China
> •• Philippines
> Steinfeld's Pickles are made in India - just as bad!
> 
> Another example is in canned mushrooms.
> 
> No-Name brand came from Indonesia.
> 
> Also check those little fruit cups. They used to be made in Canada in the Niagara region until about 2 years ago. They are now packaged in China. Most sold in Aldi stores.
> 
> While the Chinese export inferior and even toxic products, dangerous toys, and goods to be sold in North American markets, the media wrings its hands! Yet, at least 70% of North Americans believe that the trading privileges afforded to the Chinese should be suspended. Well, duh! Why do you need the government to suspend trading privileges? SIMPLY DO IT YOURSELF, CANADA and the UNITED STATES.
> 
> Simply look on the bottom of every product you buy, and if it says 'Made in China' or 'PRC' (and that now includes Hong Kong), simply choose another product, or none at all. You will be amazed at how dependent you are on Chinese products, and you will be equally amazed at what you can do without.
> 
> THINK ABOUT THIS:
> 
> If 200 million North Americans refuse to buy just $20 each of Chinese goods, that's a billion dollar trade imbalance resolved in our favor... fast! The downside? Some Canadian/American businesses will feel a temporary pinch from having foreign stockpiles of inventory.
> 
> Just one month of trading losses will hit the Chinese for 8% of their North American exports. Then they will at least have to ask themselves if the benefits of their arrogance and lawlessness are worth it.
> 
> Send this to everybody you know. Let's show them that we are intelligent and NOBODY can take us for granted.
> 
> Start reading labels more closely and buy something else even if it cost a few cents more.
> 
> And just think, if you eat in restaurants a lot, then you have no idea what you're eating. Ask where they get the item you want(fish, shell fish) is from!


----------



## huntin1

Canuck, we need guys like you and Ken to keep us on our toes. I'm not all that enamored with Trump, in fact I don't much like him. But, I do support him and what he's doing. He's a damn sight better for this country than the alternative that we had, Hillary Clinton, and he's way better than what the Dems are offering this year. Biden can't remember his own name, nor can he carry on a conversation using complete sentences.


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## Resky

[/quote]You folks like it better when nobody questions your position.[/quote]

Again you're wrong and miss the point. You have every right to question or challenge mine or anyone else's position on this forum as do I. But, neither one of us have the right to call another stupid and gullible just because they have a different opinion. I could easily throw mud, rant and rave about your country and leadership but it is really none of my business and truth be told I could care less about Canada as it's not my concern. To learn to disagree in a agreeable manner is not that difficult. Give it a try and you might even learn to like yourself. Either way don't hold your breath waiting for the day I regret my position or opinion. Have a nice day.

Someone on here commented that the hospitals get special funding for each reported virus death regardless of the underlining condition that may have been the real cause of death. I'm starting to think there may be some truth to that but I hope that is wrong but that very well could be why the high numbers.


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## Canuck

Resky

I searched all my posts in this thread. I used the word stupid once...to describe my own post! I never called anyone stupid.

The word Gullible I have used to describe some Trump supporters. My apologies. I didn't think that would bother anyone but I guess you are easily deceived or tricked, and too willing to believe everything that other people say. But you are correct. You are not gullible. Instead you suffer a lack of credulity that suggests an almost complete lack of skepticism when it comes to many of Trumps misstatements and alternative facts. Wikipedia defines the difference between gullible and credulous as "a matter of degree: the gullible are "the easiest to deceive", while the credulous are "a little too quick to believe something, but they usually aren't stupid enough to act on it."

See I am not saying Trump supporters are stupid at all. :bop:

One thing my internet search did turn up was the following...
Question: What's the definition of "Bordering on Stupidity" Answer: Mexico and Canada !


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## Canuck

"I could easily throw mud, rant and rave about your country and leadership but it is really none of my business and truth be told I could care less about Canada as it's not my concern."

Therein lies the difference...You are the elephant and we are the mouse in the room...the USA is very much our concern.

You also do not care that the USA threw Canada under the bus...excuse me...Trump threw Canada under the bus in that whole Huawei thing. Canada's farmers and other businesses are still paying very dearly for honoring Trump's request. I guess Canada should feel proud to have been thrown under the bus by Trump. After all that is what Trump does to all his good friends and business associates.

P.S. :withstupid:


----------



## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> "I could easily throw mud, rant and rave about your country and leadership but it is really none of my business and truth be told I could care less about Canada as it's not my concern."
> 
> Therein lies the difference...You are the elephant and we are the mouse in the room...the USA is very much our concern.
> 
> You also do not care that the USA threw Canada under the bus...excuse me...Trump threw Canada under the bus in that whole Huawei thing. Canada's farmers and other businesses are still paying very dearly for honoring Trump's request. :withstupid:


That has to do with an agreement with many nations that are allies with each other. If the shoe was on the other foot we would have had to do the same thing. Yes China will try to punish all of us. Perhaps the Corona virus is to punish the world and make China comparatively stronger. To many diseases have come from China for it to be an accident. H1N1 was only a test run. Just like suing the tobacco companies was a test run for the liberals to grab power. No I don't smoke.

Canuck we all have to pick sides and stick with it. If China is your boy go for it. You will not find them as forgiving as the United States. You will find mouse or elephant a deal is a deal, and in that light it's all ours and your business. Partners are partners or they are not.


----------



## Canuck

That is right Plainsman Canada followed the "rule of law" and arrested and held the executive for extradition to the States.

Trump then used the executive as a bargaining chip with your friend Ghina. Hardly following the law. Far from it.

Just because I question the actions Trump has taken that hardly means Ghina is our friend. It was strictly the law but Trump made it more than that.


----------



## Resky

Canuck said:


> I guess you are easily deceived or tricked, and too willing to believe everything that other people say.


Oh well, I tried. For what ever reason you just can't seem to resist belittling other people. Really sad.:eyeroll:


----------



## Canuck

It was a joke. I used the definition of gullible to turn my words around in a clever, funny way. The I used the definition of credulous to indicate you were not stupid. Oh never mind...


----------



## Bagman

> Just like suing the tobacco companies was a test run for the liberals to grab power.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: The lack of objectivity (and intellect) hasn't changed much since this place became a ghost town. It's nothing more than a cute little slice of ND ignorance now...void of the handful of (outdoors-related) contributions that had any actual redeeming value.


----------



## Canuck

I was going to make a snide comment about how I suddenly didn't seem so harsh after the bagman\s comments but I have been silenced by the gunmen's rampage in Nova Scotia where at least ten people were killed. One RCMP officer, a 28-veteran and mother of two is dead. The shooter is dead and there is a 100 mile long crime scene of burning houses and cars. So far, 10 bodies have been recovered. There will likely be more.

What a world we live in. 
Peace.


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## speckline

That is just terrible!!!!!!!!!!!
Prayers for all involved.


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## Canuck

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...ould-grow/ar-BB12RvJ6?li=AAggNb9&ocid=U142DHP


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## Plainsman

Things like this never happened when I was a kid, what changed? The world has lost its respect for life.


----------



## Plainsman

Bagman said:


> Just like suing the tobacco companies was a test run for the liberals to grab power.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: The lack of objectivity (and intellect) hasn't changed much since this place became a ghost town. It's nothing more than a cute little slice of ND ignorance now...void of the handful of (outdoors-related) contributions that had any actual redeeming value.
Click to expand...

It would appear you fit right in. I sure wish gun and archery talk was active. Maybe you would like to contribute.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> Things like this never happened when I was a kid, what changed? The world has lost its respect for life.


What has really left is the concept of "unity" or "neighborly". In many places people don't know their neighbors other than by the name on the mail box. That is what is missing. We can point fingers at prescription drugs, mental health, guns, drugs, music, video games, etc. But it boils down to people are not as friendly to each other. They are too wrapped up in a BUSY life and schedule and don't make time to relax, be friendly to others, etc. It is the attitude of ME ME ME. That is what I have noticed in the world we live in.

Back to the Virus....

Did you know HARVARD UNIVERSITY is getting $9 Million from this. Even though they have a $40 Billion ENDOWMENT. Does that seem right. Along with Dem's fighting to fund and extra $250 billion into the PPP. Think about it.... and also think about why is college education cost so much when there are endowments like this at many universities across the nation. :bop: :bop:


----------



## Chuck Smith

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1251745937069731841
Great little back and forth and shows you how the media is BS. Also this is Bill Mahr so take it with a grain of salt. He always tries to stoke the flames. But here is facts given by Rep. Crenshaw. :bop:

Here is another vid by Crenshaw.... not sure if I posted it before. But here it is again if it is a repeat...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252046878314770432


----------



## Canuck

It will be very interesting to see how the virus behaves this week. Canada is still locking things down even tighter while the USA will be relaxing things.

Last week the USA death total doubled from 20,000 to more than 40,000. Pretty active still I would say.

Trump wants to start having his rallies again. He could be putting his base at risk. First they congregate in evangelical houses of worship and then congregate to worship Donnie. Could be political suicide but he apparently does not think that far ahead.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Here is a little more about the media...

A NYT article is trying to blame FOX NEWS for a man's death. The article says the man believed a report by Hannity and is why he went on a cruise. Well the guy left on a Cruise March 1.... the report by Hannity was on March 9th. HMMMMMMM...

So again... this is what is considered Journalism today. I hope Fox sues the NYT and its writer for libel.... they will win in a land slide.

https://bongino.com/nyt-blames-fox-news ... ge-problem


----------



## huntin1

Plainsman said:


> Bagman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just like suing the tobacco companies was a test run for the liberals to grab power.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: The lack of objectivity (and intellect) hasn't changed much since this place became a ghost town. It's nothing more than a cute little slice of ND ignorance now...void of the handful of (outdoors-related) contributions that had any actual redeeming value.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It would appear you fit right in. I sure wish gun and archery talk was active. Maybe you would like to contribute.
Click to expand...

I doubt it. I'm guessing that he just stopped by to tell the rest of us how ignorant we are. That and to show us how objectively and intellectually superior he is.


----------



## Chuck Smith

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252571957977063424
This is a disgrace. Someone talking about giving away "leverage" during a time of crisis.

Yep these are our elected leaders. uke:


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## Chuck Smith

A few things....

#1 Nancy Pelosi stated that the House will not come back until May 4th.. .unless there is an emergency. Just think about that for a second. Isn't the media saying this is an emergency and important? How about funding and people losing jobs....HMMMM

#2 Trump doing an Executive Order banning Immigration... Well I am not 100% ok with this. Because there is legal immigration that should still be going forward. But with precaution...ie: Testing, re-testing, a quarantine time frame, etc. Just like if I was over seas and needed to get back to USA... I would have to test, re-test, and put myself on lock down for 14 days. Should do the same with the legal immigration. Any illegals or people trying to get asylum... NOPE... shut that down. But the people who have paperwork and things in motion.... get that caught up. :thumb:

#3 Oil prices dropping. Some on the Left are cheering this. They are cheering US Oil Independence. Do they want us dependent on Saudi Oil, Russia Oil, Middle East Oil???? They can switch the price as they see when the winds blows a different direction. They can send us dirty product which we have to refine more and more that will actually be more harmful to the enviroment. Do people not get this????

The first two have to do with the virus... the third is virus and other.

But just somethings to think about.


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## Chuck Smith

https://kttc.com/2020/04/20/olmsted-med ... -closings/

This is what people are not understanding about any of this. MEDICAL FACILITIES ARE HURTING. All because they stopped seeing people unless they were COVID or an emergency. They don't understand how much money a hospital or clinic brings in with people who have colds, bumps, and bruises.

This is just in my area. I touched base on it a little in previous posts.

Here is something else to think about. Over the weekend I was fishing with some people and they worked in hospitals and medical facilities. NOT NURSES OR DOCTORS.. but pencil pushers and HR. Well one made the comment that right now someone on unemployment, getting the virus check and with kids... will equal about $62,000 a year if it keeps going forward. They stated.. WHY WOULD PEOPLE WORK?? Now am not sure how or where they got there numbers. But it is what they do for a living. This is talking about hospitals they worked for. It is something to think about and why we need to get back opening things. or we will have more and more sucking off the government.


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## Canuck

Interesting Chuck.
Hospitals and medical facilities going out of business because they have no patients.
I see why the USA does not promote healthy lifestyles like the constantly do here in Canada. Healthy people save our health care system money. Healthy people in the USA cost jobs and facilities.
Damn interesting and deserves more thought.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck..

You are 100% correct. In the USA they promote pills to cure things... not eating right, staying active, etc. You see more TV commercials for pills than doing activities. Which is sad... very sad.

But you are also forgetting that the medical facilities shut down to elective surgeries.... ie: Knee, hips, joint, etc replacements or reconstructions, any hospital that has DENTAL services or dental surgeries, eye care, feet care, check ups, normal doctor visits, OGBYN, pediatrics, rehab and physical therapy, sports medicine, weight loss and dietician, etc. Check ups are either done "remote" or not at all. If it isn't "life or death" it got pushed to the way side or cancelled. Then that puts not only doctors, nurses, etc out of work. But the people who process the paper work, janitors for that area, maintence, etc. WHY CANT THESE PLACES OPEN BACK UP ASAP. :bop:


----------



## Canuck

Those same services are shut down here as well. My wife injured her shoulder and was prescribed physio to help relieve nerve pain. Her IPad is "too old" to load the app that the physiotherapist uses for remote consultations so she is SOL until she buys a new IPad...except the store is closed...


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## Chuck Smith

So up in your area you could soon be seeing the same stuff happening.

I just read in my state MN... that they are thinking about opening up some of the medical stuff soon. Also see how Georgia is going to do by opening up other stuff. Our stay at home ends may 4th. So I think that in 13 days or so we will see a plan of attack. I hope so. I also hope it isn't too late as well. MN has the resort towns and stuff to think about. :beer: They make most of their years money in a matter of 3-4 months. The rest of the year is "gravy" type income for them.


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## Canuck

Dr. Trump suggest people inject themselves with Lysol Disinfectant to cure the Covid virus.
I suggest he takes the first shot.
What an ***.

Lysol issues a press release requesting people not be so stupid as to inject themselves with Lysol.

PARSIPPANY-TROY HILLS, N.J. - The Lysol company issued a warning early Friday morning regarding the safety guidelines of their products after President Trump discussed the idea of possibly injecting disinfectants into COVID-19 patients.

Here's the full statement from Lysol:

Improper use of Disinfectants

Due to recent speculation and social media activity, RB (the makers of Lysol and Dettol) has been asked whether internal administration of disinfectants may be appropriate for investigation or use as a treatment for coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2).

P.S. Chuck I tried to respond to your PM but not sure if I was successful. I have not used the PM feature before and it appears the message is stuck in my Outbox?


----------



## Plainsman

> Dr. Trump suggest people inject themselves with Lysol Disinfectant to cure the Covid virus.
> I suggest he takes the first shot.


 :rollin: Not ever hearing this I'm going to go out on a limb here and say if it sounds to crazy to be true it usually is.

Edit: I didn't even make the connection. My wife a moment ago was reading on facebook how the media twisted what Trump said. I can't believe that intelligent people suckered for this story. I was listening to Trump yesterday and it's such a stretch I can't understand if the media manufactured it out of thin air or twisted the meaning of something he said.

Canuck stop the hallucinogens. :rollin:


----------



## Canuck

WASHINGTON (AP) - The parent company of Lysol and another disinfectant warned Friday that its products should not be used as an internal treatment for the coronavirus after President Donald Trump wondered about the prospect during a White House briefing.

Hallucinogens??????????????? Maybe try some truth serum.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Plainsman....

I saw the press conference and knew immediately that the press was going to run with this. He didn't say anything about "injecting with Lysol". The guy before was talking about how bleach, disinfectant, etc works so good and kills the virus in the liquid for by killing it in minutes if not seconds. He was also talking about how fresh air and heat is killing the virus and what not. He was talking all about the things they are finding out about this virus in testing. Then trump repeated some of the stuff, was talking about the vaccine and talked about possibly working on some sort of "disinfectant" to inject...ie: vaccine.

But I knew they would go off on injection house hold cleaners. Or some idiot would die because they injected bleach and blame Trump for it.

So people do you understand how the media is such BS and we shouldn't hold anything they say at face value. I will repeat this 100 times.... No matter what way you think you are politically leaning. Watch, read, etc news from the other political view points. Then come to your own conclusion. Because you are not getting the truth from either of them. Just bits and pieces. They all think we are sheep is the issue. Remember most communist, fascist, Nazi, type goverments control the media to make the people un-informed. Like I stated look what is happening during this administration. The media, ALL MEDIA, isn't giving us the whole story or they run with half truths or out right lies. They don't retract or correct the story either. Which is complete BS. Look how many times in the past few years the media has been sued... AND LOST IN COURT. It is crazy.

I am all for our freedom of the press rights and freedom of speech. But we need to make sure people are held accountable if they lie. Maybe journalists should have to be licensed. Just like in other area's people need to be licensed.... contractors, real estate, lawyers, insurance, hair dressers, etc. Then if they get caught lying you take away the license or fined. There is some consequences. Plus there could be a board of standards set up that people need to follow. IE: if a story is found to be false.... you need to retract it a certain way.... IE: not burried on page 10 but front and center. Also if you have more than 3 retractions you lose license for a year. So this way your "source" better be accurate and not a guy on a bar stool. Just some ideas and maybe those are in place. Plus it would be a revenue stream for our nation. oke:


----------



## Canuck

Chuck,
This has more to do with Trump wasting everyone's valuable time on foolish and potentially dangerous "medical" interventions that clearly have no value.
His people who follow his "advice" may actually be natural selection at work.


----------



## Chuck Smith

He didn't give advice....

He talked about what is actually being done by medical professionals and scientists about the virus. Things they are working on.

Then the real issue is how the media are the ones twisting everything. THAT IS THE ISSUE. :bop:


----------



## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> Chuck,
> This has more to do with Trump wasting everyone's valuable time on foolish and potentially dangerous "medical" interventions that clearly have no value.
> His people who follow his "advice" may actually be natural selection at work.


Come on Canuck put your hate aside and get back to reality.

Here is how I took Trump. First off he asked a question and didn't recommend anything. Perhaps he didn't understand the anti viral components of some disinfectants. Your right he isn't a doctor. Not knowing everything isn't a sin. So I understand he is asking because medicine comes from some very unlikely sources. For example a robin eats a monarch butterfly and nearly dies. He would have died if not for regurgitating. So what's the poison? Real scientists look for things like that. So they find that the monarch larvae feeds on milkweed which is poison. The poison is contained through metamophosis an concentrated in the adult. The heart rate of the bird that eats the butterfly rises to the point the heart gives out or the bird regurgitates before death gets him. So looking at the milkweed the poison is digitalis. What could something that would kill you be good for anything. Well if you know meds digitalis in controlled amounts is used to control congestive heart failure. Who knows what medicine will come from the next tweaked poison?


----------



## Chuck Smith

Also if you go back to watch the briefing... they talk about UV light and how UV light is a disinfectant. So was that what Trump was talking about. I don't know.... but it could have been.

Also they are testing using UV light with IV's and things. Like as the fluid goes down the tube it gets shot up with UV light and actually "glows" when it is by the injection site. It is kind of crazy to see but who knows if that acutal UV is getting into the system or is it just all a side show parlor tricks... I don't know.

Hence the study on it.


----------



## KEN W

This is the quote from the dummy ........You guys can say all you want about he didn't say this. But this is exactly what he said. How stupid can he be to even think about injecting disinfectant? What an idiot. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Trump mused about whether disinfectants could be used to treat the virus in humans -- asking whether there is "a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning."


----------



## Canuck

Plainsman,

Watch the video. Trump asks the Doctors to look into bright lights and/or disinfectants that could somehow be shone or sprayed in the lungs to kill the virus. You will look into it right? he asks. It has promise right? he asks. Not as a treatment. No says the doctor.

Trump takes up 90% of the time allotted to the Covid virus update and uses it to pat himself on the back, bully people around (like reporters whose questions he does not like), and blame democrats for everything. That is a waste of time even if everything he said was worthwhile and accurate.

Most of the treatment Trump gets from the press he has brought on himself with his words.

Waste time investigating flashing lights and Lysol injections or spend time doing more tests, making more masks, etc?? 
Leaders should lead or get out of the way.

Your anecdote relating the tracing of pathogens and transfer mechanisms in the natural world impresses the need for intelligent people at the helm does it not?


----------



## Canuck

Whew Ken! 
Just like the Cavalry you arrived just in time. 
They almost had me surrounded.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Ken... correct.

Was he talking about UV therapy? Which until he brought that up I didn't know was an actual thing.

Like I mentioned.... I don't know if that is proven to work or is it all a side show circus act. Like most of the "holalistic" type healings. I am not saying the holalistic approach on anything is bad. because if it gets your mind in a positive area it can help heal as well. The mind is amazing and just positive thinking and help people heal faster compared to negative thinking.

Again... he didn't say go inject Lysol. Which is everything the media is saying. He never said that... and kens quote shows it.

Like mentioned you need to take into context as well. What was talked about before he made that quote??? UV light. He even talked about INJECTION UV LIGHT before the quote ken put up. :bop:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122858/


----------



## Canuck

President Donald Trump told reporters Friday that he was only testing the media when he suggested injecting people with disinfectant to fight off the coronavirus.

"I was asking a question sarcastically to reporters like you just to see what would happen," he said early Friday afternoon, just as the coronavirus death toll in the U.S. surpassed 50,000.

Trump did not appear to be joking when he pondered the idea at Thursday's press briefing.

"I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in one minute," Trump said at the time, once again pushing unproven treatments for COVID-19. "Is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning? &#8230; It would be interesting to check that."

Like I said...wasting everyone's valuable time.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/tru ... gpc9wdtSuY


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## Resky

"Trump asks the Doctors to look into bright lights and/or disinfectants that could somehow be shone or sprayed in the lungs to kill the virus."

I watched the video and the president did not say "and/or disinfectants". He talked about the UV lights and called that a disinfectant which is actually being used some places to disinfect surfaces such as in restaurants. A doctor on the Ingraham show last night said the virus is dead in one and a half minutes when exposed to bright sun light which is a UV light, but takes over a hour to die in the air of a enclosed room. Problem is to much UV light on a human is dangerous so it has to be controlled in minute amounts on people. That is what the President was asking about, not the out of context crap the media and some on here are spewing out.

I didn't hear him even mention Lysol. Why some people can misquote someone so much out of pure hatred is beyond me. That is nothing more than a lack of intelligence in my opinion.


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## Chuck Smith

I think Trump is stupid to walk back on his comments from yesterday.

He is saying he did it as sarcasm. Maybe. But the UV light therapy is a real thing also the UV light killing the virus is real. So people open all shads in your home to possibly help kill things... .go outside.... etc.

Now he is making it worse if he was making a joke or not.


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## KEN W

He says....."a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning."

He didn't look like he was joking when he said that. And he clearly says injection inside. As you say Chuck.....no one else on the briefing team says stupid stuff like he does. That's him.....whether live or on Twitter. After 3 1/2 years of being and saying stupid stuff, I just can't see another 4 years


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## Plainsman

I have a 35w UV light running constantly in my 4000 gallon with Koi. When the shutdown started I ordered a new one for the pond. I pulled the light out of the protective housing, drilled a one inch hole in the bottom of a 5gal bucket, cut 1/3 of the side out of the bucket, put the light in the hole and set it upside down. I put a sheet of white (crap forgot what you call it) in the back of my pickup to reflect. So all groceries, mail, anything going in the house gets a shot of uv. I wear dark glasses with glass not plastic. UV will not pass through glass.

I was listening to the radio today and they said they were using uv light in the tubes of people who were on a ventilator. I guess the idea is to make sure they are getting clean air.

It's hard to know sometimes when Trump is serious. I have heard him say somethings that sounded goofy, but at the time the media would go nuts and he would be doing something they didn't notice. He plays the media like a violin. He plays you guys the same. After egg on the face day after day during the impeachment liberals still jump into the crap with both feet.


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## Canuck

Plainsman,
Don't swallow that light bucket and all in an attempt to kill the virus in your innards.
Sorry to poke fun but when Trump said that stuff about disinfectants I looked the other way to see what he was distracting the press from. Maybe he sent emergency medical supplies to Kim Jong Il or whatever.
That is his style.
I am happy that you Republicans have so much unwavering faith in the man...
Just don't get blinded by the light...and remember there is no one so blind as he who refuses to see.
Have a good weekend all.
Stay safe.


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## Plainsman

Speaking of idiots:
I see the only people getting hydroxychloroquine are those on ventilators. Then they report it doesn't work that well. Other doctors say it needs to be taken sooner. A doctor specializing in lupus said he has been prescribing it to patients for 30 years and has not had one patient have any problems of any kind. Yet the news keeps talking about heart problems.

OK to the idiots I started talking about. A democrat lady in Michigan thanked Trump for saving her life. She came down with Corvid and sent her husband somewhere to buy hydroxychloroquine. She thanked Trump and the democrats went nuts. They have censored her.

This is hate plain and simple. Trump may talk foolish at times, but he has accomplished more than all the democrats in congress could even dream of. Of course their dream is different. Their dream is six more months in lock down, a destroyed American economy, and an elected socialist president. It isn't going to happen. No matter how many lies the media tells. There are a lot of naive suckers out there, but not enough to elect anyone to fulfill the liberal dream.


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## KEN W

Makes me wonder who the dummy thought was going to do the testing of swallowing or inject the disinfectant? Maybe some of those people he has fired over the past 3 1/2 years. Nice long list there for him to practice with.


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## Plainsman

> He says....."a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning."


 Thats not true Ken. He asked the doctors what was possible. It was not a statement it was a question.

On the news tonight Chris Cuomos wife adds Clorox to her bath to keep corona away.



> I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in one minute,"


 You do understand he was talking about uv right? If you dont watch the video again. UV is tough on the eyes and I think it reacts also with lipids in the skin. Would it damage lungs, I dont know do you? Before my son passed away they were retrieving fungal infections from his lungs to try identify what fungus it was. You could have had a dozen led uv on the instrument. Nothig like that woukd work because you couldnt reach into the small areas where virus harbor. I can see someone unfamiliar with anatomy could be ignorant of those things. Ignorant not stupid. One can not be aware of things they have never encountered. Im not voting for Trump to be my doctor, and I wouldnt vote for any of us to run the country. He has turned around what Obama tried to destroy and he will do it again while liberals chear for the virus.


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## Resky

[/quote]You do understand he was talking about uv right?[/quote]

That is exactly what he was talking about. But don't expect the haters to admit that. Wasn't paying attention to the TV because of a storm overhead but heard a quick reference to a couple companies that have actually been working on using some kind of probe for internal use of UV light. Wish I had of been paying attention but I wasn't so don't know who or where.


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## Plainsman

Canuck and Ken condolences for you as your friend passed away today. :rollin:


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## Canuck

Plainsman I am confused. I phoned both of my friends and they were fine.


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## Plainsman

Both of them ok.  Seriously I always figured one or two real good friends were better than 100 just mediocre. :beer:

So will his sister take over, or will some general bump her off and go for it himself?


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## Canuck

Oh you must mean President Trump and Dennis Rodman's friend, Kim Jung Un, who was going to stamp Trump's ticket to the Nobel Peace Prize...Nobel, Nobel, Nobel..while we wait for a credible source for North Korea news here is a gay little ditty about curing Covid with Chlorox.............Just Skip the Ad


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## huntin1

Saw this on Facebook today, rather fitting, and so true.



> The fact that anybody thought Trump meant people should inject lysol into themselves is EXACTLY why we have "caution hot" on cups of hot coffee.


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## Canuck

I am not trying to be snarky but I am worried about the Divided Sates of America.
I know you folks have stated that the number of Covid-19 deaths is inflated in the States and understated everywhere else.
Still, how can a country with the "best health care"in the world and just 4.5% of the world population have more than 25% of the deaths. Trump keeps saying that the world is watching the USA because of the fantastic job the country is doing dealing with the virus. How much faith do you have that the USA is doing it right and doing it better than every other country? Could or should the USA be doing anything different.


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## Plainsman

> gay little ditty


 More like queer as a three dollar bill.  
The question I ask myself is not are we doing it right, but why do some countries get hit so hard and others not. Did China purposely send infected people here, or is it because to many of our people are chummy with China and go there to often? Why are our different flu diseases always coming from China? Why are our politicians and businesses so foolish to deal with and make rich those who hate us? Is it that politicians like Biden are so corrupt and businesses are greedy?

I grew up on a farm and as farmers my parents didnt think we should sell wheat to Russia whos leader Kruschev said "we will burry you". Then we put an embargo on Cuba, and while we expected the world to respect that our state and others sent agriculture delegates to Cuba to see about selling our farm produce. Now we worry more about selling beans to China than our own security. I am aware that many companies operate in this fassion. I speak about agriculture because its been around me all my life and its what I know.

Over the years I have observed the world change. To increase income farmers learned to produce more. Small farms failed, and large farms swallowed them up. Rural populations declined. and small towns died. Through organizations farmers went from local to national and international. I would expect this is the patern of nearly all businesses. In all this we need to think about ouselves as not citizens of the world. but of whatever country we live in. There are to many evil people in the world to make it a better place. We are headed the wrong direction as a nation now morally, which makes us a nation in decline. How are we a nation to improve the world.

Bring back ouf industies from China. Trade with our friends like Canada, England, Norway. Sweden etc. Trade with people who believe in freedom and have respect for the individual, and it would be great if again we respected life.


----------



## Canuck

Oh crap I had typed a big long winded response to you Plainsman and my finger shook on the mouse pad and every word went somewhere...gone. I will now try the short version because I have already forgotten what I wrote.

I hear you on the social effects of landscape scale changes in agriculture. In Canada we have smaller family dairy, poultry, and egg farms along with cheese producers that are protected with price controls and quotas. I know capitalists don't want such a social system but it has succeeded in keeping traditional family farms on the landscape. NAFTA and now the USMCA allow small scale access to these markets but many Canadians will pay a little more for Canadian products in order to keep those families and farms on the land. It is seen to benefit all of us. I guess you call call that socialism.

So I agree that the world perspective and people travelling everywhere on the earth as part of their daily lives means the virus can spread quickly and is pandemic. But once it hit our shores what happens depends more on our response. It will be interesting to analyze what worked and what did not work, as well as examine what made things worse. I watch the daily pandemic report from the White House. Do any of you watch the daily Canadian Covid updates on CBC Newsworld every day except Sunday at 1000 Eastern with the PM and the Premiers of each Province, along Canada's medical experts? I have never seen our politicians working so well together, sharing credit for successes and taking responsibility for their own actions and words. I know it sounds like I am bragging (again) but it is refreshing to see. Too bad it probably won't last long after things get back to "normal".


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## Plainsman

> I have never seen our politicians working so well together, sharing credit for successes and taking responsibility for their own actions and words.


 I would like to see that here, but here I think our liberals would tolerate a million deaths if it meant Trump would loose the next election. I seriously see people like Pelosi and most of our media as evil people.



> But once it hit our shores what happens depends more on our response.


 It also means we have to know it's here. I think we had to much travel between the United States and China. Also China lied about the virus and that took everyone's eyes off the ball.

If we need cheaper labor to support our lifestyles then we should change our lifestyle or start looking at India and alternatives countries, but get out of China.


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## Canuck

Sometimes we need to examine peoples words from another perspective in order to better understand their meaning.
Here are a couple of humorous looks at the President's recent Covid briefings. Hope the links work for you.







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1252294111182413825


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## Plainsman

Yes that sounds a little off the wall, but since he has done a better job with the economy than any other president one has to as you say


> from another perspective in order to better understand their meaning.


. First he did say we have to ask medical doctors. What's that mean? That means he is admitting he doesn't know. I didn't follow up, but I have headlines that pop up on my computer lower right corner. This mornings headlines was doctors are investigating the use of UV light that Trump was criticized for. In the past I think Trump has had prior information that he puts out there in a silly way to watch the media go nuts. He lets it brew for a few days or a week then he lets out the rest of the information leaving the media with egg on their face.

I'll get on my phone and paste a pic of the UV setup I have been using for the past six weeks. I have a UV sterilizer called the Turbo Twist. It's in a housing that contains the light so it doesn't hurt your eyes. I use it in my Koi pond and pump 1000 gallons an hour through it. It kills the algae, but it also kills bacteria and virus. I pulled the light bulb from it, drilled a hole in the bottom of a white five gallon bucket, cut 1//3 of the side out of the bucket, and set it on a sheet of melamine in the back of my pickup. When I get groceries I use the pick up service and they put it in the back along with the receipt. When I get home I open the back, plug in the light, and everything gets a few seconds of light.


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## Canuck

That looks like a good idea Plainsman even before all this virus stuff hit.
I give my wife a hard time when she occasionally buys leaf lettuce that is all cleaned and washed. She says it is convenient and that she can use it right out of the box. I, on the other hand, don't trust people who grow lettuce where there have been so many e. coli problems, etc.

You have to admit there is some humor in Trumps words and the way he speaks, never finishing sentences and all. Especially when his theories are espoused by a drunk or a ditzy lady! If you don't have a sense of humor (or at least a weird sense of humor) let me know and I will stop posting such things. Would not want to offend or anger anyone. :beer:


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## Chuck Smith

Here is a couple takes on the whole virus stuff.

1. It has been beaten to death that he was referring to UV and not Lysol. Also people you forget what CEMO Therapy is... injecting your body with poison. That is exactly what it is. So him talking about a "disinfectant" is same as what CEMO is.

2. Now onto the whole China releasing the virus.... Well I know I talked about this in the past about how at some health facility labs they were working on virus therapy. What I mean was they were looking at how virus can be used for good. What a virus does is kill weak cells. So in theory you inject someone with measles that has cancer. The measles virus will attack the weak cancer cells and destroy them. In theory this should work. But I know the people I talked with that were doing it. Were very cautious on not making a "super" virus. IE: since most everyone in the USA and world have been given the measles shot. They needed to see about mutating that virus. So that it was resistant against what you were given the shot for. So like I said.. .they didn't want to make a "super" virus. Now in the USA they test this stuff on mice. We don't know what china might be using as test subjects. Where they trying to cure some type of cancer and happened to release the virus by accident. We don't know. But it could be as simple as that and not trying to "infect" the world. Yeah it was a slow day in the turkey woods yesterday and my mind wandered. LOL


----------



## Chuck Smith

> I give my wife a hard time when she occasionally buys leaf lettuce that is all cleaned and washed. She says it is convenient and that she can use it right out of the box. I, on the other hand, don't trust people who grow lettuce where there have been so many e. coli problems, etc


ALWAYS WASH YOUR VEGGIES... I heard of some "organic" type veggies that people use urine to water them with. yes they take the biproduct of animals and use it to water the plants. Some even rumored to use their own human urine. I heard this is happening in the Amish or Meninite communities. So WASH YOUR VEGGIES!!!!!


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## Resky

Chuck Smith said:


> Some even rumored to use their own human urine. I heard this is happening in the Amish or Meninite communities. So WASH YOUR VEGGIES!!!!!


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, I can just hear it now, come on Tommy finish that two gallons of water. I need another quart of urine so I can finish this wash job. Some of these posts are becoming ridiculous. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> You have to admit there is some humor in Trumps words and the way he speaks, never finishing sentences and all.


Ya he isn't the orator that Reagan was. Trump jr. is very well spoken. He can run for eight years after Mike Pence does his eight years at funny farm east.


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## huntin1

Resky said:


> Chuck Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some even rumored to use their own human urine. I heard this is happening in the Amish or Meninite communities. So WASH YOUR VEGGIES!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: Yeah, I can just hear it now, come on Tommy finish that two gallons of water. I need another quart of urine so I can finish this wash job. Some of these posts are becoming ridiculous. :eyeroll:
Click to expand...

Not ridiculous at all. Urine as fertilizer has been used for a long time, lots of nitrogen and phosphorous among other nutrients in urine.

https://www.attainable-sustainable.net/ ... ertilizer/

According to Bear Grylls you can drink it too. But personally, I'd have to be really thirsty to drink pee. uke:


----------



## Chuck Smith

So today I read a tweet from Brian Stelter&#8230;. He is complaining about no Virus Briefing for the past 3 days.

CNN doesn't show them in full and twist them to push a narrative. So why do they care about them???

Funny how they just need something to say "Orangeman bad"... oke:


----------



## Resky

huntin1 said:


> Not ridiculous at all. Urine as fertilizer has been used for a long time, lots of nitrogen and phosphorous among other nutrients in urine.


Of course I'm aware that cow and horse manure which also contains urine is used as fertilizer. You can buy the stuff in bags for your garden. I've also read that in China human waste is used as a fertilizer. Don't have a clue if that is true or not. But, and there is always a but, the waste is either greatly diluted or cooked to remove the large amounts of salt in urine which will kill the plants. Don't think so then let a dog pee on your pretty lawn and watch the spots turn brown and die. The only difference between dog and human urine is where it came from. I just thought it was funny to ridiculous to say the Amish was using urine as a fertilizer.

Link me to a respectable site that makes that claim and I'll be the first to say gomen-nasai.


----------



## KEN W

US intel warned Trump about the virus more than a dozen times in January and February.Trump ignored intel briefings on the virus threat. 1 million people here now have contacted it with over 50,000 dead. Thanks a lot Trump. This guy needs to go before we are in this same predicament again next winter. uke: uke:


----------



## Resky

KEN W said:


> US intel warned Trump about the virus more than a dozen times in January and February.Trump ignored intel briefings on the virus threat.


Please provide a credible link to your source. Curious people want to know.


----------



## Canuck

" I've also read that in China human waste is used as a fertilizer. Don't have a clue if that is true or not. "

Very common in the USA as well. Have you never heard of Milorganite Fertilizer?

From Wikipedia...Milorganite is a brand of biosolids fertilizer produced by treating sewage sludge by the Milwaukee Metropolitan Sewerage District. The term is a portmanteau of the term Milwaukee Organic Nitrogen.


----------



## speckline

This **** is really good lawn fertilizer, I don't give a crap what you think! 
No really, it is good lawn fertilizer.


----------



## KEN W

Resky said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> 
> US intel warned Trump about the virus more than a dozen times in January and February.Trump ignored intel briefings on the virus threat.
> 
> 
> 
> Please provide a credible link to your source. Curious people want to know.
Click to expand...

How many do you want???? I can list a whole bunch more.......The American people need to wake up and see this guy for what he really is. An eyesore. Republicans need to find someone else to carry their banner. He will be known in the future as the "Herbert Hoover of the 21st century."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... e-briefing

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04 ... eport.html

https://thehill.com/homenews/administra ... classified

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04 ... efings-pdb

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 88401.html


----------



## Resky

Well, like I asked how about a honest reliable non left wing source that simply just regurgitates a story from the Washington Post which is what the links do. Even the first link had this to say but of course it is just ignored by those on the left.

"The Office of the Director of National Intelligence, which is responsible for putting together the PDB, denied the story". But I'm sure you will say he is just a Trump flunky. Believe what you want but don't expect me to drink that brand of cool aid.


----------



## Plainsman

> Please provide a credible link to your source. Curious people want to know.





> How many do you want????


There is part of the problem. There are no credible sources anymore. Even FOX is going down to tubes. Then we have google who is perhaps the worst. Facebook I am not on, but they take down conservative posts and leave wild and crazy liberal posts up. The left is trying to vilify the right and gag the people. Wake up while we are still a free nation. I don't want to live in the hell liberals wet their panties over.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/04 ... efings-pdb Oh myyyyyyyy goshhhhh don't tell me you read Huffing and puffington post too. At least put away your Grimms' Fairy Tales and read something real. oke:


----------



## KEN W

Typical crap from the far right. I have read most of the posts on here. Mostly right wing BS. Just my side vs your side. We won't agree no matter what you or I post. I could have put up another 10 links. Not worth the time because you guys wouldn't agree with them anyway. You guys are just Trumps lemmings following him no matter what he says or does. To bad the Republican Party has morphed into what it is today.....

Republicans are all about....No rules to protect us....Anti union....No help for the poor....No insurance for everyone....No health care alternative to Obama Care ( 12 years and still waiting) No government interference....

I got mine screw you.... :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Time to take a break from here. Time to get outside and get into my gardening mode. :beer:


----------



## Plainsman

Ken it was only a couple of months ago that the liberals claimed Trump acted to early. You can't have it both ways. Also the common flu kills 20k to 70k a year. This whole thing may be a liberal hoax to control people. I thought Cuomo was doing a good job until they played some tapes on FOX last night with him not taking the virus serious a month after Trump shut down travel to China, and Pelosi was telling people to come and party in China Town. You have a selective memory Ken.



> I got mine screw you.... :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


 :bs: That's just liberal poor poor me. You were a teacher, and the average teacher here in Jamestown makes more than I did as a biologists, and they do it in nine months. I know I have seen the salaries. However, you want find me whinning.

The liberal attitude is I got mine and I want yours too. :bart:


----------



## Canuck

Pence wandering around the hospital without a mask when every other person wore one and hospital policy dictates that every one must wear one shows

1) How senseless Pence must be to not realize how poorly things would "look" on television
2) How inconsiderate he is of others, especially the vulnerable
3) How scared Pence is of the President who probably told him NOT to wear a mask
4) How scared the hospital is of the President's anger and retaliation if they had made Pence wear a mask
5) How could Pence miss such a chance to lead by example?

The President's attitude and handling of the crisis is why the USA is way behind the rest of the world in dealing with the virus.
Can't see any other reason.


----------



## speckline

KEN W said:


> Typical crap from the far right. I have read most of the posts on here. Mostly right wing BS. Just my side vs your side. We won't agree no matter what you or I post. I could have put up another 10 links. Not worth the time because you guys wouldn't agree with them anyway. You guys are just Trumps lemmings following him no matter what he says or does. To bad the Republican Party has morphed into what it is today.....
> 
> Republicans are all about....No rules to protect us....Anti union....No help for the poor....No insurance for everyone....No health care alternative to Obama Care ( 12 years and still waiting) No government interference....
> 
> I got mine screw you.... :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
> 
> Time to take a break from here. Time to get outside and get into my gardening mode. :beer:


Pot meet kettle... oke:


----------



## speckline

Canuck said:


> Pence wandering around the hospital without a mask when every other person wore one and hospital policy dictates that every one must wear one shows
> 
> 1) How senseless Pence must be to not realize how poorly things would "look" on television
> 2) How inconsiderate he is of others, especially the vulnerable
> 3) How scared Pence is of the President who probably told him NOT to wear a mask
> 4) How scared the hospital is of the President's anger and retaliation if they had made Pence wear a mask
> 5) How could Pence miss such a chance to lead by example?
> 
> The President's attitude and handling of the crisis is why the USA is way behind the rest of the world in dealing with the virus.
> Can't see any other reason.


Serious questions regarding your bullit points.
What exactly are the masks used for?
If literally everybody else in the room has masks on, does it make any difference at all if one doesn't?

BS regards...


----------



## Canuck

The virus is spread by our droplets and they now know by our aerosols (or micro droplets) when you speak. Pence could have been spewing virus throughout the hospital. The virus lives for hours to days on hard surfaces. Patient touches the surface, then rubs his eye. Done.

Pence said he was tested earlier in the week and said he was negative. He could have been infected 10 minutes after his last test. Especially given how cavalier he is about the virus and protective measures and equipment.

We already know Trump wii not wear a mask. He said that a few weeks ago.

I wish he would lead by example. Here is an example of how it goes.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-veterans-home-1.5548812


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## Plainsman

Sweden has not shut down and they have about the same deaths as Norway that did shut down. I do think the media pushed the panic button to far.

For the libs that worship Cuomo did you know that New York only had a few hundred ventilators and they didn't want to pay to maintain them so the auctioned them off before the virus hit. Talk about unprepared wow. Probably spent it on condoms for third graders.


----------



## Canuck

Not true Plainsman.
Sweden is paying the piper. They have 10 times the total deaths and 10 times the Number of Deaths per Million. The virus is pulsing through the population in ever increasing waves. Where you getting your information? Does it rhyme with Fox?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/norway/


----------



## speckline

Canuck said:


> The virus is spread by our droplets and they now know by our aerosols (or micro droplets) when you speak. Pence *could have been* spewing virus throughout the hospital. The virus lives for hours to days on hard surfaces. Patient touches the surface, then rubs his eye. Done.
> 
> Pence said he was tested earlier in the week and said he was negative. He *could have been* infected 10 minutes after his last test. Especially given how cavalier he is about the virus and protective measures and equipment.
> 
> We already know Trump wii not wear a mask. He said that a few weeks ago.
> 
> I wish he would lead by example. Here is an example of how it goes.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-veterans-home-1.5548812


Fear mongering speculation! He could also be negative as his TEST PROVES!


----------



## Canuck

Speck
You asked me a question.
I answered it the best I could.
You call it fear mongering.
I call it common sense.
You are right "he* could* be negative" your words, my emphasis.
Just depends on how you look at it.


----------



## Plainsman

> Does it rhyme with Fox?


 No, a headline on Drudge maybe a couple weeks ago. His headlines are misleading. Lesson learned.


----------



## Canuck

Perhaps a of couple of weeks ago the numbers may have been more in line? Yesterday Sweden had more deaths that day than any other country except one.
Here in Manitoba things are opening up next week. Parks. golf courses. boat launches, etc are part of the first phase of re-opening things.
Hopefully we don't get a new spike of in virus cases.


----------



## Plainsman

We are opening up tomorrow. I sure hope things go well. At 72 years old I'm giving it another week or two.

Back to Drudge. I don't know what's happened to that site. A couple years ago you could skim the headlines and have a good idea of what was going on. Now often it's the opposite. Certainly not something you can rely on. I think I'm going to give up on that site.


----------



## Canuck

Honestly, there seem to be so many websites and news sources that intentionally misinform people and promote crazy conspiracy theories out there representing all sides.


----------



## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> Honestly, there seem to be so many websites and news sources that intentionally misinform people and promote crazy conspiracy theories out there representing all sides.


We were lied to in the 1960's, but today we are seldom told the truth. One doesn't know which liar to believe. I think that's why Trump was elected. Back in 1979 I voted democrat. Then working within the federal government I changed to republican. However, when the republican party called for donations I told them I would donate when a republican that got into office did what he promised. Once in Washington there is little difference between democrat and republican. Their all buddies with each other. I don't vote for who I like I vote for who I dislike the least.


----------



## KEN W

Plainsman said:
 

> We are opening up tomorrow. I sure hope things go well. At 72 years old I'm giving it another week or two


 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


----------



## KEN W

Over half the states are or will be opening soon. So What's more important.....

Your health....maybe even die......

Or your job.


----------



## Canuck

We are opening things up here in Manitoba on Monday. Our government seemed to go from complete lock down one day to opening things up the next day. It is like they know that the hospitals can handle the numbers and they are willing to accept the loss of lives. I don't want to play ball with them on this one. At 68 I am in the most tenuous age group and the millennials would probably like to see a bunch of us disappear. It would help with their future pensions if they don't have to pay us one for another 25 years.


----------



## Plainsman

Ya I keep bearing the millenials laugh when the call the virus Boomer Remover.

Ken, Im not sure what to think about opdning vs closed. Myself Ill play it safe. I hear younger people concerned about people loosing everyting and committing suicide. Also domestic calls for police is way up, along with child abuse. I guess the politicians have to weigh the options.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> Honestly, there seem to be so many websites and news sources that intentionally misinform people and promote crazy conspiracy theories out there representing all sides.


This is the problem right here. We are getting lied too on all fronts. Left leaning, right leaning, etc. All are so polarized that they cant tell you the whole truth. They all want to push a narrative.

Now onto the opening back up....

Here is the issue I have. I just spent a few days fishing with people who are nurses, own restaurants, medical office type staff, etc.

All of them said we need to open up soon. Nurses are working every other week. WHY???? They all stated that right away it was good to make sure we (hospitals) are ready. They are ready right now. So open them back up! The medical office staff people... they said the same thing.... they need to get things rolling again. Otherwise layoffs and furloughs. Which why should MEDICAL be doing this??? The people who owned the restaurants said they might just lock the doors and walk away if something doesn't happen soon. They said that the local "support" is great but it is barely paying the bills for the business. The bills at home are the ones not getting paid. They made the comments that they could make staff wear masks and gloves to help. But also comentented on what is the difference of Walmart people going in and out and the air system making things "spread" different than in a restaurant? He also stated that odds are in the Restaurant it is more clean. Tables are wiped down immediately and people are not touching stuff and putting it back. He talked about condements to being the disposable single serve kind... like the ones you throw in to-go's or find in the gas station.

But just interesting hearing these people talk about how they can be more "sanitary" and still be open. Or hearing that the medical community is "hurting" during a medical pandemic. You would think that the medical side would be the busy one.... yet they are not.

everyone stay safe and healthy.


----------



## dakotashooter2

KEN W said:


> US intel warned Trump about the virus more than a dozen times in January and February.Trump ignored intel briefings on the virus threat. 1 million people here now have contacted it with over 50,000 dead. Thanks a lot Trump. This guy needs to go before we are in this same predicament again next winter. uke: uke:


Apparently Congress knew about it also.... So why didn't they do anything about it ???? They had just as much power and authority as the president to do so..


----------



## dakotashooter2

KEN W said:


> Over half the states are or will be opening soon. So What's more important.....
> 
> Your health....maybe even die......
> 
> Or your job.


No home or food can kill you too...


----------



## Chuck Smith

Just got done talking with a client of mine.

Mayo Clinic is looking to "cut" or save over $900,000,000 this year because of this. This included pay cuts to employees, cutting of vacation time/days, furloughs, etc. This is until 2021. Some are until August of this year others are longer. So do you think that after a corporation is done with this that everyone will be offered a job back? Same pay, same benefits, etc. If they can run smoothly for 3/4 of a year and save almost a billion dollars? What do you think will happen. Some jobs might be deemed "non-essential" and be cut. So the people who took the "volunteered" furlough might not have the same job or hours when this all ends. Just things to think about. Again this is just the medical community. When you would think that it would be one industry that wouldn't be hurt during a medical pandemic.

Things to think about.


----------



## duckp

Couple thoughts.

Only an a short sided 'challenged' person would blame Trump -or any person for Covid 19.If he or anyone had known the outcome at the time of his election little would be different.Same screaming,same sheeple allowing the Constitution to be pushed aside,same 'flattening the curve' etc remedies.

'Health' is a broad term.Inherent in 'good health' is mental well being,food,shelter,security etc.Those inherently necessary things in todays age for the vast majority of people require a functioning economy.Not a printing press,screaming liberals demanding the unattainable,or anyone with an agenda,but a functioning economy.You know,real life stuff,like producing things.Processed meat,crops,a monetary exchange that functions instead of phony Gov mandates.
Would have thought people here in the heartland would have all realized that.
Lord help us if/when we don't start 'producing' again and food and necessities start running short in the big cities.
Good god folks we need to get back to work.We are people,not sheeple.Roll up our sleeves,take social distancing and other practical steps to protect yourself and your families but get your ***** back to work.

A friend sent this for a little perspective:

"It's a mess out there now. Hard to discern between what is a real threat and what is just simple panic and hysteria.
For a small amount of perspective, at this moment, imagine you were born in 1900. On your 14th birthday, World War I starts and ends on your 18th birthday. 22 million people perish in that war. Later in the year, a Spanish Flu epidemic hits the planet and runs until your 20th birthday. 50 million people die from it in those two years. Yes, 50 million. On your 29th birthday, the Great Depression begins. Unemployment hits 25%, the World GDP drops 27%. That runs until you are 33. The country nearly collapses along with the world economy. When you turn 39, World War II starts. You aren't even over the hill yet. And don't try to catch your breath because on your 41st birthday, the United States is fully pulled into WWII. Between your 39th and 45th birthday, 75 million people perish in the war. At 50, the Korean War starts. 5 million perish. At 55 the Vietnam War begins and doesn't end for 20 years. 4 million people perish in that conflict. On your 62nd birthday you have the Cuban Missile Crisis, a tipping point in the Cold War. Life on our planet, as we know it, could have, should have ended. Great leaders prevented that from happening. At age 75, the Vietnam War finally ends.

Think of everyone on the planet born in 1900. How do you survive all of that? When you were a kid in 1985 and didn't think your 85 year old grandparent understood how hard school was or how mean that kid in your class was. Yet, they survived through everything listed above.

Perspective is an amazing art. Refined as time goes on, and enlightening like you wouldn't believe. Let's try to keep things in perspective. Let's be smart, help each other out, talk to one another, discuss the issues with not only those who agree but also with those who may not agree with you, be a little kinder. And above all, trust in God and we will most certainly get through this! "


----------



## Plainsman

If the left were not habitual liars and completely driven by Trump Derangement Syndrome we would all know where we stand with this virus. Now we have no real way to weigh our options. Tonight they say 3000 people a day will die in June. However our liberal media also told us millions would die. They want the economy to collapse so they can try force us into socialism. If this keeps up it will be settled just like the conflict of the early 1860s.


----------



## Chuck Smith

The thing about this whole virus thing was the lack of information right away. That is why the numbers are all over the place.

Now it is coming out that the numbers wont be so high and the 3000 a week in June number I wouldn't believe it either. Again I am not saying throw caution into the wind. But the numbers haven't been correct yet. Remember "Peak" was going to hit in March...then April... now May&#8230; etc. You see how they keep pushing it out. Also it has been pointed out about the "death" numbers are flawed to begin with. All are getting putting under COVID even though it might have not been the cause. Like mentioned... if someone is terminally ill and die. If they test positive for COVID that is what is the cause not the terminal illness.

Also with the "ramping' up of testing of course the numbers will be going up for cases. The numbers we should be looking at is percentages. If the percentages stay the same then nothing new. The other number that nobody is talking about is the "recovered" number. How many have "recovered". Are we at 50% yet or not? Are we higher or lower? Again nobody knows. I think in MN it is hoovering around 50% rate.... which is good but not great. That number needs to jump up to 70% range or more. IMHO. That way you know if you got it "contained" to a certain extent. But out media doesn't want anything positive out there about this.... oke: They would rather bicker and point fingers (yes this is all media)

Edit:

Here is the issue. No matter when the businesses get opened back up. It will take time to get back into the swing of things. There are people still deathly afraid of this virus. Which is good and bad. They are taking it seriously but they are also making it alter their lives too much. But it will take months for some to even think about going to malls, restaurants/bars, not doing curb side pick up for groceries, etc. Many will still be living "in shelter" because they are afraid of the virus. It is because our media ALL OF THEM are not giving facts. They spew talking points. Then you have some that are so doom and gloom and scare people instead of giving facts and positive motivation.

I don't have an answer to all of this. I for sure know our elected officials don't have an answer. Just look how they are all acting. This is for Republicans and Democrats as well. Pelosi would rather keep people home than do their jobs. Not let committees work or meet to do their jobs in this time of need. Many are just playing political games to bide time until the election come fall. Then you have Republicans pointing fingers instead of pushing to get Pelosi and other back to work. Then the Republicans really don't have definitive answers on how to go other than... OPEN UP. Which I agree with but we need to do it smartly and should have been done weeks ago....ie: slow open or what a restaurant would call a "soft" opening....ie: try some stuff to see if it works and get the bugs out and then move forward again.


----------



## Chuck Smith

It is coming out that the State of Virginia "padded" the Covid Stats they counted some patients multiple times. It is all because of FUNDING.

Hospitals and States want or need money for this. So if the "stats" say they need it... why wouldn't they "fudge" them a little. YET THAT IS THE PROBLEM.... we don't have 100% accurate numbers on this whole thing. It makes people not believe numbers getting talked about. It makes people question things. It gives people no FAITH in our government. Just look at this thread people don't trust Republicans and people don't Trust democrats. People don't trust the media and the false reporting on all of it. Everyone from elected officials to media needs to have an "integrity" check and do good for the people. Report facts, work together to find solutions, work to find middle ground, etc. Not push agendas.

Yes this is going to all media and all elected officials. Trump needs to stop name calling and going after people. To me it is childish and getting worse IMHO. Do I "hate" the guy because of it. NOPE... I know that is his personality. But he needs to just cut it out. Also Pelosi, Schummer, and the likes... need to get off their ***** and stop with all the "investigations" and do their job for ALL OF THE PEOPLE... not a select few. BTW.. did you know Pelosi is looking to push a "guaranteed income for illegals" in the next virus bill. Think about that... who is she really trying to help?? Is she trying to help the people on welfare who just lost jobs, the businesses that are closed or will be closing. the people not making payments, the people not getting payroll, etc. Think about how she acted during all of this and who she really had in mind to help.

Also on my Nancy rant.... is she not calling the House back to session because of all of this Flynn stuff. Think about it... it is her house and committee's in the house that investigate this stuff. I know it might be a little tin foil hat things... but the Senate is in Washington... why not the house?????


----------



## Chuck Smith

So now a rant on the media....

I am getting this off of twitter so take it with a grain of salt or wait to see if something pops up in the next few days.

But the New York Times published on the front page a "projections" about the virus saying it came from an "internal document" from the White House.

The White House on many levels denied this ever existed. It is coming out that it was actually a John Hopkins Bloomberg School of Business slide deck for preliminary analysis of a SENERIO.... and that none of the data was vetted. The article mentioned that in the last two lines.

So the NYT's presents an article on its front page saying double deaths coming soon. States it is from the white house... but says numbers are not vetted until the very last lines in the article.

So who can tell me that the Media isn't a problem..... uke:

They are trying to mislead people on purpose. It is known facts that people only retain about 10% of what they read and it is in the first couple of paragraphs or just the headlines.

I am all for the freedom of speech and the press. But sometimes they need to be held accountable and get sued. Just like I have stated before... the whole "annoymous" source BS needs to be looked at. Just because I could use anyone on this site as an "annoymous" source and I would not be held liable to a certain extent. It gives media a free pass to write or publish what ever they want. I don't know if journalists are licensed by state or federal government. But maybe they should be. Then they could possibly lose their license or get sanctioned by the state if they have too many "false" articles. It would put more responsibility on the writers and publications to make sure they do their due diligence in veitting the info they get to make sure it is accurate. Lots of other professions are licensed and sanctioned by government. I think one more should be added to the mix some how. :bop:


----------



## dakotashooter2

Most of the major new outlets have seem to become rag mags. The modern National Enquirer. There is no longer verification of a story or even an attempt at it . These rags make so much money they aren't even afraid of lawsuits. Freedom of the press is the ONLY right they have any concern for.


----------



## Chuck Smith

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-s ... BB11rm9q|2

Here is another misleading article.

It talks about MN. They don't mention that testing has almost doubled as well. They are doing almost 4000 tests a day instead of 2500. That will make your totals increase as well. They don't talk about the recovery....MN has 7851 cases with about 4614 that are recovered. That is so far about a 58% recovery rate. Which needs to go up IMHO... but it is data people don't want to talk about.

Like I mentioned the media wants to mislead. Instead they should be talking about recovered, ICU beds used and vacant, percentages of tests vs positive results, etc. Because you could go from testing 1000 people and having 100 infected to the next day testing 4000 people and having 300 infected. People will say WOW they went up 300% in one day... when in fact the ratio of tests vs positive results went down. They went from a 10% infection rate/ratio with tests to a 7.5% infection rate/ratio.

I will keep saying this that we need to take it seriously but we also cant live in fear. We need accurate numbers and reporting. Not this BS that we see in the media.

Edit:

today totals from the MN DEP of health for testing done results from yesterday.... 728 new cases with 5523 tests.... that is about 14% infected rate of tested. This needs to go down. But shows you more accurate numbers than saying... OMG they had 728 new cases. So hopefully each state has website where people can see testing per day numbers and infected/new cases. Plus recover rates. Also now MN has 8579 cases with 5005 recovered... it is at 58%. Again this number needs to be increasing but these are the facts people should be getting. Not just "new cases".


----------



## Plainsman

Don't be a lemming. This will not survive long on utube.


----------



## duckp

Frankly there are only 6 true journalists left in the world.One works for the BBC and the other 5 are high school students working part time for rural newspapers in the Dakotas.
Most of the 5 will get screwed up after 'journalism' school though.


----------



## Chuck Smith

https://hannity.com/media-room/media-ma ... socialflow

Take this with a grain of salt it is coming from Hanity. But if it is true. There should be a law suit filed against this media outlet.



> MEDIA MALPRACTICE: Secret Footage Shows CBS News 'Staged' Virus Test Line, Forced Real Victims to Wait


The jist of the article is that the media pulled nurses and doctors away from testing to make sure the line was "long" so they could push a certain narrative.

Again.... how does doing things like this make the media look "credible".... uke:

We have seen things staged over and over again. By all media. Would it be numbers at an event or rally. To weather related instances that were "staged". People need to be held accountable and not just with a "firing'. It needs to be the whole station, news paper, affiliation, etc. Integrity needs to get back into journalism.

Also social media isn't helping... and I know that is ironic because were am I ranting... social media... LOL But since social media we are seeing the integrity go down hill big time with all media plat forms. It is also pointing the finger at myself and human nature. We all want IMMEDIATE things... be it news, information, service, etc. We all have less patience and what not. Think about it... if our internet browser takes more than 5 seconds to upload a video we are upset.... think back 25 years ago with dial up. :bop:

Anyways.... back to the covid and how the media is really more evil than any elected offical... yes even more evil than NANCY and TRUMP.... oke: :beer:

Now some more Covid News. I read in the Star Tribune that most of the recent cases of COVID are coming from two meat packing plants. About 300 or so of the new cases come directly from workers at these plants. Just something to think about. It is isolated cases or a "hot spot" that in the majority of the increased cases. Granted it isn't good but things to think about how it isn't a broad brush but an isolated instance. Same article talked about the deaths as being mainly in nursing home type settings along with "outbreaks" are in those settings as well. Like I mentioned before the county I live in there is 68 cases of COVID and as of an article last week that I read 55 of those came directly from one care facility.... 80% of the cases directly to one care facility. These are the types of facts that need to be looked at and make plans to open back up states and the country. :bop:


----------



## Plainsman

> The jist of the article is that the media pulled nurses and doctors away from testing to make sure the line was "long" so they could push a certain narrative.


I don't know how old you are, but you may remember this: back in the 1970's when they were attacking anything that didn't get X miles to the gallon they were claiming that the Chevy pickups would blow up on accident impact. Then they run a test where a Chevy pickup comes down a track at about 25 miles per hour and hits an old junker they had set up. Sure enough a huge explosion when the gas tank explodes. The problem was a week or two later it leaked out from the guy who helped set up the "experiment". They had put a spark plug in the gas tank to ensure an explosion. The media as liars is nothing new. Even the old famous ones during the Viet Nam war were lairs. Remember Walter Cronkite? His word was gold for some. Right. :eyeroll:


----------



## Chuck Smith

So I don't know if this is true or not.

But have red it on multiple threads on twitter....

In SF they city is housing homeless in hotels during this pandemic... GOOD..... but now the crazy part... They are suppling them with Drugs, Cigs, Booze, weed, etc. If this is true all of the people in office for the city should be FIRED and held responsible in criminal court. If it is weed, cigs, booze... not criminal court but should be fired for misappropriation of funds... since those are LEGAL substances in CA. But if any illegal drugs are given to them... CRIMINAL CHARGES. Also remember that CA has a strict no smoking in Hotels law..... interesting isn't it. :eyeroll:

Like I stated I hope to GOD this isn't true. But if it is I know I would be looking to vote, fire, etc any official elected in SF. If I lived there.

Honestly this would be a time you could possibly help them get clean. You have them in a "shelter" and possible lock down. The city could get them medical/mental healthcare, etc. It would be a great time to do some good. Not foster dependency.


----------



## KEN W

Fake news you guys are always talking about.....but from the other side...... :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

"This is neither a scandal nor a scoop: The city has never hidden the fact that emergency shelter-in-place includes medical harm-reduction. Seattle has been doing this longer than SF. Other Bay Area counties are doing it too.

Exactly 11 people, out of the hundreds of at-risk folks quarantined in hotel rooms, have been given small amounts of alcohol to avoid withdrawal symptoms (and to keep them from leaving to buy their own).

The "drugs" that are provided are nicotine (seriously, do you want people to cold-turkey quit a hugely addictive substance while confined to a hotel room?) cannabis (which is, for many, medicine) and methadone, which is a medical treatment for heroin addiction.

Nobody at City Hall is handing crack or heroin to people in the hotel rooms.

There is, honestly, nothing here, folks. This is not news.

But after one person - exactly one person - complained about it on Twitter, a very rational, small-scale program became a sensation.

It made The Daily Mail in the UK. It made The New York Post. It's going to be a hot topic on Fox News.

And to my surprise (although I shouldn't be surprised), it was a front-page story in the SF Chronicle.

All of this because Tom Wolf, who works as a substance-abuse counselor for the Salvation Army, said he disagreed with the policy.

San Francisco faces backlash as it delivers alcohol, tobacco and medical marijuana to homeless addicts (Daily Mail).

There will be more. And the rightwingosphere will put pressure on the White House to cut off FEMA funding that pays for hotels for at-risk homeless people. That could cost lives.

I'm sorry, but this is just irresponsible journalism."


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

Thanks for putting that up. You are correct that is why I stated TRUE OR NOT....

But this shows you media and social media is to blame for pushing BS stories or "half truths" or "half lies" depends on how you want to look at it.

:beer:

Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy. Hope people going out for the MN fishing opener good luck and don't get too cold in the possible snow. oke:


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## Plainsman

> Exactly 11 people, out of the hundreds of at-risk folks quarantined in hotel rooms, have been given small amounts of alcohol to avoid withdrawal symptoms (and to keep them from leaving to buy their own).


 A steel D ring in the floor and six feet of chain will keep them from leaving too. :rollin:



> The "drugs" that are provided are nicotine (seriously, do you want people to cold-turkey quit a hugely addictive substance while confined to a hotel room?) cannabis (which is, for many, medicine) and methadone, which is a medical treatment for heroin addiction.


 I wonder how many teenagers are claiming to be homeless? :rollin: They appear to be acting like the old opium dens of the 1800's. They should discourage addiction not enable it.


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## Resky

KEN W said:


> Fake news you guys are always talking about.....but from the other side...... :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
> 
> "This is neither a scandal nor a scoop: The city has never hidden the fact that emergency shelter-in-place includes medical harm-reduction. Seattle has been doing this longer than SF. Other Bay Area counties are doing it too.
> 
> Exactly 11 people, out of the hundreds of at-risk folks quarantined in hotel rooms, have been given small amounts of alcohol to avoid withdrawal symptoms (and to keep them from leaving to buy their own).
> 
> The "drugs" that are provided are nicotine (seriously, do you want people to cold-turkey quit a hugely addictive substance while confined to a hotel room?) cannabis (which is, for many, medicine) and methadone, which is a medical treatment for heroin addiction.
> Nobody at City Hall is handing crack or heroin to people in the hotel rooms.
> There is, honestly, nothing here, folks. This is not news.
> But after one person - exactly one person - complained about it on Twitter, a very rational, small-scale program became a sensation.
> It made The Daily Mail in the UK. It made The New York Post. It's going to be a hot topic on Fox News.
> And to my surprise (although I shouldn't be surprised), it was a front-page story in the SF Chronicle.
> All of this because Tom Wolf, who works as a substance-abuse counselor for the Salvation Army, said he disagreed with the policy.
> San Francisco faces backlash as it delivers alcohol, tobacco and medical marijuana to homeless addicts (Daily Mail).
> There will be more. And the rightwingosphere will put pressure on the White House to cut off FEMA funding that pays for hotels for at-risk homeless people. That could cost lives.
> I'm sorry, but this is just irresponsible journalism."


Well, as Paul Harvey said "Now The Rest Of The Story", which the media always so gleefully leaves out.


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## KEN W

Why aren't the people in the White House wearing face masks? Picture of people there shows no facemasks. Guess the all powerful think they are immune...... NOT :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

2 aides test positive, President's valet tests positive, 3 top administration scientists now in quarantine.


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## speckline

Probably not the feeling their immuned as much as they are confident/overconfident that they know they don't have it. They're probably tested at least daily!!


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## KEN W

They aren't all tested daily. They only get their temp. taken daily. Doing that doesn't mean they don't have it. It just means they aren't showing symptoms. White House needs to test everyone every day. We don't it to be the NEW hotspot.


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## speckline

agree


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## KEN W

Every time I saw Boris Johnson, he was wearing a mask. Is Trump to proud to wear one? what about all those others in the WH?


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## Plainsman

He is being careless. The question is why. Liberals will instantly jump to the conclusion he is dumb. However his performance as president defies that reasoning. So what else. Perhaps he is trying to instill calm in the population. I really don't know, but I don't have to know everything and I'm ok with that because no one but him really knows. I guess doing it for a reason isn't careless it's a strategy.


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## Resky

> They aren't all tested daily. They only get their temp. taken daily


We don't really know that now do we. Well, at least I know I've never been a guest at the White House.


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## Chuck Smith

The reason for "no masks" is all because of PR and vanity. Just look at all the elected officials. The majority are never wearing masks. That is all sides. oke:

BTW.... How do you like it when the "press" wore a mask the day they asked about Trump wearing a mask. YET every other time they never had masks on. Real "honest" journalism. The question is valid but the "charade" behind it was pure BS.


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## dakotashooter2

The media will always claim that they are telling the truth and they are of sorts. Often the information they provide IS true...BUT..... because they often omit and or manipulate portions of the facts that have relevance to a persons interpretation of the story they are in fact deceiving by omission. They get by with it because from a legal aspect they may not be on the hook by from a moral aspect they are.

I think the White house is trying to demonstrate confidence and strength. Not try to cower in a corner like some of our congressmen and women...


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## Chuck Smith

Another "media" rant....

I just saw on youtube a little quick "presser" on the some CDC guidelines. Well it came out that those "guidelines" were leaked to the press and never really went thru any channels yet and are still in discussions. So there are no "official" guidelines. So the media is coming out with "leaked" not fully accurate info. HMMMMMMMMM..... leaks, leaks, leaks. Again this is the problem with the media. They either "pay" for the leaks or try to use false info to go after the president. Which is BS.... and is the problem with the media.


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## Chuck Smith

I read an article in my local paper that made some sense.

There is this gym owner who is defying the Gov. of MN orders and opened up. He talked about how he only has a total of 400 members. His gym can only hold at a max 100 people. He said he took precautions and removed machines and benches so people have to be 6 ft apart from using them. He added cleaning supplies, signs saying mandatory wiping down of machines, he is in his gym 4 times a day cleaning it himself, has signs up saying wearing masks is recommended, etc. Yet he cant be open. When a big box store like Walmart can be open and have over 400 people in it including workers. It doesn't make sense.

Which the stuff he is talking about is true. The smaller stores cant be open who might only see 100 people a week yet a big box store who sees 1000's of people a day can remain open?

The Govenors need to take a look at giving guidelines and letting these smaller stores open up. Have the 6ft apart, have more cleaning or guidelines for cleaning, have people were gloves, masks, etc (for barbers, etc), etc. Just open up with some guidelines. Don't wait for the Fed's to do it... get pro-active and make your own. :bop:

But also another little rant. Macy's cant be open for clothing.... yet Walmart can sell clothes? I understand the Walmart can be open for food, meds, essentials... but any "non" essential should be off the shelves... Correct... or is the government allowing them to monopolize???? Just something to think about.


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## KEN W

All these states who have opened things up will have big increases in positive people. How high will the numbers go before they realize it was a mistake?


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> All these states who have opened things up will have big increases in positive people. How high will the numbers go before they realize it was a mistake?


 Thats what I would think too, but didn't Alabama go down today. Of course my guess is it will take a week or two to escalate.


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## dakotashooter2

I'ts really about pulling the bandaid off slow or jerking it off. We can stay closed for another 2-3 months and it will slow things down. But even after that probably 2 month after opening up it will likely be right where it is now. I think many are beginning to have the attitude of "lets just get this over with" .I'm not so sure there is a right or wrong. It will work through the population slowly or work through it rapidly but at the end the results will probably be the same.


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## Chuck Smith

People have been talking about how FL is the state to watch on this one. They are "piece meal" type opening up. While still keeping lock down and strict restrictions on nursing/elderly care facilities. Along with the guidelines for people who are in the "high" risk category.

The thing is nobody will know anything for 3 weeks. ie: Since it takes 14 days for the virus to show up or pass along. So the 3 week mark is when you will either see a spike in cases or nothing.

Here is the issue I got right now with MN. Gov Walz keeps moving the goal posts. He stated he wanted more testing done... well it is ramped up to 5000 a day. He now stated he wants 20,000 tests daily. It was after Mayo clinic came out and stated they can do over 10,000. So he keeps sliding the goal posts.

Right now we in MN are at about a 65% of the cases who got it are no longer needed to be in isolation. 8223 out of 12494 cases... .and if you want to do the math.... we have had in the past 10 days we have had 5826 new "cases"..... so please tell me how those numbers work? Are some of the people testing positive for the antibody and they are saying they are "cases" to get scare tactics? Which they need to add that figure into the mix if they want True numbers out there.

This info is coming straight off of the MN Dept of Health Website.
https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... tml#cases1

We will have increase in deaths and cases as we increase testing. It is the law of averages. But like I mentioned we need to look more at percentages. We in MN are still at a 10.4% infection rate per people tested. 12,494 cases and 120,834 tests completed.


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## Chuck Smith

So just came out....

Pelosi and Dem's drafted an 1800+ page $3 Trillion bill while not in Washington.

Even some Dem's and media are calling it a "wish list". So while out country is on lock down, an up coming election, etc. They draft this monstrosity that they know wont get passed.

WHO IS REALLY WORKING FOR YOU. :beer: Again I am calling out Nancy and anyone who signed onto this bill. Not every Dem is behind this. I read where some are calling Pelosi out on it as well.


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## Chuck Smith

Just read two things that are in this bill Pelosi is introducing...

1. Making States eliminate any Voter ID laws. So taking power away from State and possibility of fostering voter fraud with this one. Also think about his.... you don't have to prove who you are to vote. Think about it.....one could keep voting for each of their family members, neighbors, etc. If someone was sick, out of area/country and didn't vote, if they know someone isn't going to go vote... you could take there place possibly. Honestly let this sink in.

2. Making State have to accept mail in ballots.... 10 days AFTER the election. Oh how could that possibly not create a climate for voter fraud..... uke: :eyeroll: Think about it..... People didn't go out and vote. They see who could have possibly won... then go mail in a ballot and they have to accept it. Let that sink in the scenario I just played out. This isn't a Dem vs Republican... this is about holding up our election process.

Again these two things I mentioned are not a Right vs Left thing. It is about our process and how it can be manipulated.


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## Chuck Smith

Oh another thing I just read in this bill....

A tax break for the "RICH"... yes you read that correct. The same 1% people Nancy keeps talking about is evil.

What it is doing is allowing people to deduct state and local taxes. Remember Trump took that "deduction" away. People in NYC and CA were screaming because it was stuff on second and third home type thing. She wants that deduction back in play.

Interesting how she claims to be working for the "small guy" but this is helping her rich buddies. oke:


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## dakotashooter2

Chuck Smith said:


> So just came out....
> 
> Pelosi and Dem's drafted an 1800+ page $3 Trillion bill while not in Washington.
> 
> Even some Dem's and media are calling it a "wish list". So while out country is on lock down, an up coming election, etc. They draft this monstrosity that they know wont get passed.
> 
> WHO IS REALLY WORKING FOR YOU. :beer: Again I am calling out Nancy and anyone who signed onto this bill. Not every Dem is behind this. I read where some are calling Pelosi out on it as well.


I've been suspicious of this. I stated somewhere that I though congress would spend about 6 trillion before this is done. I may have underestimated. this would put us at 5. And guess what? if it passes it's under Trumps watch so who will they blame?


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## Chuck Smith

I honestly think this was all a political move for the upcoming election.

1. If it passes. They will blame Trump for not keeping to his promises of "over spending". Even though this wasn't even close to a compromise bill or even trying to veil it as one.

2. If it is rejected (which I hope it is). They will kick and scream about how the President and Republicans don't care about the citizens and what not.

3. The media will follow suit with either of the two points above.

But if you look at this with open and objective views... no dem's vs rep's or left vs right. Look who held up bills for 16 days, who isn't in Washington working, who is adding things to bills that are "pet" projects or straight one political parties objectives. All of this during a crisis. It hasn't been the republicans. There has been two republicans that wanted to have a floor vote or floor discussion. Which once you found out about the discussion and they did it. They had to reword some language. I still say it was dumb of them to ask for it. But they did reword the language and caught errors. Which is good. But could have been done down the line and not taken extra days to pass the bill. But the others held up the vote because of spite. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

don't know if it is true or not. Or is just a "one day" observations.

But read on twitter that Georgia (12%) and Florida (14%) drop in new cases.

Again don't know if it was for a week or just one day. Because if it is just one day.... that shows you how numbers can be skewed.

In MN one day went from 700+ next day down to 480's. But then back up into the 500's. So again not a good pattern to go by a daily percentage. Like I stated.... 2-3 weeks before we know anything.

Also like I showed with MN.... how could in the previous 10 days have 5000+ cases yet the no longer needing isolation is 8000+ and total cases in the state was under 13000. Isn't isolation supposed to be for 14 days????? So how do those numbers add up? Or are some of the cases they are talking about are testing positive for the antibody. So they had it before? See we need better data to make decisions. Also I am betting that the MN governor will say 2 more weeks come Friday. Hope I lose that bet. :beer:


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## Chuck Smith

Remember how I talked about the Data for MN didn't make sense....

Well today they have "adjusted" and say the data is incomplete and is being looked at again because of reporting issues and testing issues.... But the numbers went down for "infected" cases has dropped by about 1600. So if that is more accurate (again could change because they are saying they are looking at things). But that shows a decreasing trend. But yesterday they stated only 4 cases.... so we will see.

Also this data is changing after an MSN article a few week ago or so said MN was a new "hot spot".... I wonder if the data shows it isn't will they retract it.. oke: oke:

But it is coming out more and more how the numbers are BS.... I read an article that Dr. Brix thinks the death toll is inflated by 25%. For the reasons we talked about with the whole if you were given 2 days to live because of cancer... but test positive for Covid&#8230; it is a "covid" death. But it will take years to sort this whole thing out.

https://dailycaller.com/2020/05/11/doct ... ng-report/


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## Plainsman

I'm starting to think Fauci is working against Trump and America. On television he says he thinks there are more people who have died of Wuhan flu than reported. I think many of us know someone who has died of something else and they report it as Wuhan. As a matter of fact some doctors have admitted the hospital gets more money for people who die of Wuhan. Especially if they put them on a ventilator they get an extra $3900.

As for Pelosi and her bill. It's painfully clear that she is setting the election up for fraud.


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## Chuck Smith

Plainsman....

It is funny that Dr. Fauci is saying one thing and Dr. Brix is saying another about the actual "death" totals. They are on the same task force and team.

Also I am not putting much faith in what I am reading about this.... but some have stated that Dr. Fauci has investment in a company or something that is dealing with the vaccine. So is that why he is more "doom" than others? Or why he keeps talking about vaccinations than others. don't know.


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## Canuck

People of the USA...Your President, Donald J Trump is the smartest man in the world. Do what he says. Ignore science. Just do what he says and shut up.


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> People of the USA...Your President, Donald J Trump is the smartest man in the world. Do what he says. Ignore science. Just do what he says and shut up.


Surprising but one mainstream media outlet said Trump is listening to the scientists. I thought I was dreaming.

Chuck I have heard that about Fauci too. Its strange how they are killing hydroxichloroqin (however you spell it). That makes me suspicious ofbig pharma and Fauci.


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## dakotashooter2

The truth will come out a year from now when cause of death data is compiled. If we see a drastic drop in other causes or contributors to death it is likely the corona numbers were being padded. As I understand flu deaths are around 60 and as high as 80 thousand every year. If that number comes in at 30 or 40K for 2019-2020 it will be a pretty good indicator that something is fishy.


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## Chuck Smith

I agree we will know more on "actual" totals in a year plus. It all depends on what Nov. looks like....ie: a "flair" up could happen for political reasons.... :beer: oke:

Some other points....

WI supreme court ruled that the Stay at Home stuff was wrong. So bars opened right up last night. But they did state that those bars do have to listen to any town or other municipality. So lets say if the city of Madison still say stay closed.... they have too. But just wait there will be some law suits coming. To be honest the stimulus stuff will be needed for state goverments to pay for law suits... oke:

Also the Gov of MN did loosen up some stuff. But still no hair cuts, bars, or restaurants. But says if people have a plan they can open back up to 50% capacity. Which in some small towns if a building can have 100 people in it.... odds are they never had 50+ in it at one time. he also opened up for gatherings or 10 people instead of the 6 or what ever. He extended everything else to june 1. So I was half right and half wrong in my prediction. :thumb:

But back to some stuff..... The State of MN Health webpage stated that there was 523 new cases.... but yet the data is still incomplete or not correct. Plus they keep adjusting the "daily" totals in the past. There was never a 800+ day but now there is... from about two weeks ago. I am not saying the info is wrong but how come it keeps changing. Are they trying to "pad" stats or did they just screw up in the initial reporting. They have a "disclaimer" on the data. They stated that the totals are incomplete but from 4/27 to 5/6 some testing was counted twice. So will the number drop more or not? Basically it is stating that they double counted the testing they did. Did they double count the results? That just states "incomplete". oke:

More on this it keeps coming out that more states are reporting things wrong and that they got wrong data or misused data. I think the last one I read about is Virginia. I wont blame a state if they got wrong info and acted on the info they got. But if they are "padding" stats or miss using data they are collecting themselves. Then it is on them. The whole thing is at the beginning we didn't have accurate or any info on this Virus. It was new and we as a country were not prepared because we haven't seen something like this in ages. Our stock piles of stuff were depleted or out of date...from many presidents not Obama, not Trump, etc. It was poor before these two were in office. But now that new data and other things come to light....we need to start to open back up. :thumb:

Also if you look at the death tolls from today. There was 25 people who passed away (still too many). Of those 4 died were from "private residency" the rest were a group/nursing/elderly care type facilities. 23 of the 25 were older than 70 years old. One was 30-39 and other was 50-59. So again... it shows you who needs to be protected. Also on testing and what not... with the 534 they did 6400+ tests... which is about an 8% infection rate. Exactly where MN has been most of the time. They have been between 4-12%. Which is exactly what we knew from the jump... the infection rate was 10%. Again not to make light of this at all. But shows you real numbers and data.


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## Chuck Smith

Couple of things today...

1. Dr. Bright testimony. You will see plastered all over the media him saying "Trump Bad" or that the doctor is a huge whistleblower.

Well he stated that needed more testing... Check.... needed more venilators&#8230; Check... needed more beds... Check..... needed more masks.... check.... So all of the things he is "whistleblowing" on has been taken care of or is being taken care of.

He then stated that the Dept. Of Health didn't take it seriously enough with early warnings. Ok... so the people who are supposed to be telling Trump what to do didn't take it seriously. So how is that Trumps fault??? I know people will say well they work for him... Ok.. I understand that. But how is it Trumps fault again. How come it isn't everyone who is in congresses fault as well?? They got same briefings, memos, etc. Just things to think about.

2. The Nancy Pelosi bill....and some more provisions in that 3 TRILLION Dollar bill.....
- PPP loans for... wait for it.... LOBBYISTS!!!! So lobbyists can get a government loan to line the pockets of CONGRESS!!!!
- 2 studies for diversity in the cannibas industry
- Money for illegal immigrants
- The voter ID stuff I talked about and mail in ballots
- Releasing of Prisioners
- Over 285 million more in non needed spending
- Cut taxes for Millionares in Blue state.... I touched base on that with the "state tax deductions" that Trump eliminated in his tax over haul.

Below a quote form Congresswoman Horn who is a Dem...


> This is not the time for partisan gamesmanship, this is the time to find common ground and deliver help where it is needed most. In response to COVID-19, our relief efforts must be targeted, timely, and transparent. The HEROES Act does not meet those standards.


----------



## Resky

Bagman said:


> Just like suing the tobacco companies was a test run for the liberals to grab power.
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol: The lack of objectivity (and intellect) hasn't changed much since this place became a ghost town. It's nothing more than a cute little slice of ND ignorance now...void of the handful of (outdoors-related) contributions that had any actual redeeming value.
Click to expand...

Bagman, it is very unfortunate but you hit the nail square on the head. I just looked at all the forums on this site and with the exception of two, all the others are dead. Some haven't had a post for 6 or 7 years. This forum and one other are about the only active forums and even then it is the same 4 or 5 posters that are contributors and 90% of those posts are BS. It really is sad as this was once a really good site with great information and participation. I've been a member for a few years but never really posted until now, only to discover since I'm not one of the 4 or 5 clique members I'm simply ignored. Sad indeed and you're right that it really is a ghost town now.


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## Plainsman

Fishingbuddy is gone. Both sites had problems when they enforced rules against obscenity. Fishingbuddies was simply advdertisers who were going to pull the plug if people used scantly clad women in their advatar. I dont know how bad ours was but it was reported as early morning hours posting for a minute and deleting what the poster described as their tender parts. When he was banned he took his fans with him, and we lost our most outspoken liberal on the site.

I would love to talk rifles and reloading. Perhaps one day we will get that instead of a libersl winning post. How about Bagman and Resky put on their big boy pants and do that? Are the two of you actually outdoorsmen, or are you liberal hacks that scan the internet for political content?


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## Chuck Smith

From the MN Covid website....



> Because all data are preliminary, the change in number of cumulative positive cases and deaths from one day to the next may not equal the newly reported cases or deaths.


So basically the new "daily" totals are not from that day. They could be from 2 weeks ago. So when today it states 800+ new cases. 200 Of those could have been from 4-29 and 200 from 5-4 and etc... So when you see the new daily cases it doesn't mean from that particular day.

So the more important number to look at are the ones not needing Isolation and what not. Plus the hospitalized and ICU numbers.

Not needing Isolation in MN... 9503 with total 14240 cases...66% which is up from a week ago... that was at 50% or so. Which is a good thing.

BTW... of the new reported deaths today (20) 17 came from some sort of care facility. Plus only one was in their 50's. So again not saying don't take this seriously but shows you who needs to be protected the most and how we should proceed.


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## Plainsman

https://nypost.com/2020/05/16/why-life- ... c-of-1969/

To date the Wuhan flu has killed 295,000 people. The 1969 pandemic killed between one and four million people. We don't even remember the Hong Kong flu that did that. Life went on as usual. What's the difference today? The difference is we have a political party that has gone insane. Both parties are a little off the the wall and it's like they are a snake in the death throws, but this is the swamp in it's death throws. Both parties are corrupt, but the democrat party is both corrupt and immoral.


----------



## Chuck Smith

So somethings I have been seeing on twitter....

***** A little comic relief if you ask me******

How come nobody is kicking and screaming how things are getting reported about COVID... what I mean is they only have 2 genders they are reporting about infections and death totals........What about the other "genders".... :beer: :thumb: oke: oke:

Yes in my sick twisted head I found this funny. You are not seeing nightly on TV people complaining about why isn't "Trans" people being listed. Maybe that is the cure.... Trans people don't get it. :thumb:


----------



## KEN W

Trump.......90,000 deaths is a "Badge of Honor." How high do the numbers have to go before people realize this guy's actions or inactions caused more deaths than he prevented. :******: :******:


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> That is our problem Plainsman...the politicians are either girly boys or fat lying pigs...I am 100% sure that any of you on this forum could do a more respectable job of presiding over the USA than the "man" you have now...any of you.


I couldn't. I lnow right from wrong, but I would be lost doing the job of a president. If you coukd trust advisors any of us could do it. Every night I pray for the restoration of truth and integrity in our gov and news media. Also wisdom and discernment for all our leaders, and for myself.


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## Canuck

KEN W said:


> Trump.......90,000 deaths is a "Badge of Honor." How high do the numbers have to go before people realize this guy's actions or inactions caused more deaths than he prevented. :ticked: :ticked:


I could not believe even Trump was crass enough to say such a thing. Sorry to say this but I wish his Badge of Honor tally included himself.


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## Chuck Smith

The "badge of Honor" quote.... I haven't seen it yet. But what was asked or what was he talking about before and after? Since our media never omits anything to push a narrative.... oke:

But I am sure it has to do with the "death" totals that were first talked about... remember OVER 2 million would die..... but correct he shouldn't say "badge of Honor". That is just a stupid thing to say. But dont forget the numerous other times he has stated that even 1 death is too many. Yes he has stated that many many many times. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

> "So, when we have a lot of cases I don't look at that as a bad thing. I look at that, in a certain respect, as being a good thing because it means our testing is much better...I view it as a badge of honor. Really it's a badge of honor..."


Was just going to put this up there again.... So you see is it the MEDIA telling the truth or not.

So who really is more evil for this country... the media who twists and lies more than Trump... .yes this is a fact and is proven almost daily. Again see above quote.... oke: and the many other instances on this thread and many others. The media is our countries #1 enemy. I am not giving fox news a free pass either because they distort facts as well. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/planne ... ppp-return

Planned Parent Hood and some of its affiliates got PPP money even though they were not supposed to by how it was set up.

They got about 80 Million from the SBA. Yet they show profit/assests in the Billions Just remember this when you hear about Pelosi and others saying Planned Parent Hood needs funding. They have funds available to them in the billions already. oke: oke:


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## KEN W

Re: Corona-virus
Postby Resky » 20 May 2020 09:56

Canuck wrote:
KEN W wrote:
Trump.......90,000 deaths is a "Badge of Honor." How high do the numbers have to go before people realize this guy's actions or inactions caused more deaths than he prevented. :ticked: :ticked:

That's not what Trump said but you know that don't you. Talk about BS hatred spin :ticked:

Here is what The President said and what he was talking about.

"So, when we have a lot of cases I don't look at that as a bad thing. I look at that, in a certain respect, as being a good thing because it means our testing is much better...I view it as a badge of honor. Really it's a badge of honor..."

His comment had nothing to do with death numbers but instead was about testing numbers. Must be a sad and pitiful little world some of you haters live in.

You are right.....Lets look at what that really is.....I may belong to the Trump haters here.....VERY SMALL group of 1. You and every one else here belongs to the BIG group of Obama haters. oke: oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Ken...

I never hated Obama as much as people hate trump. I really just disagreed with his policy....a lot :beer: You can got back and find in some posts (admit very little) I agreed with him. But I never showed this level of "hate" towards Trump that many on the Left show. BTW.... it is nice to have the opposite side of the fence every now and again pop up on this forum. Even when you know you misquoted them... :beer:

Here is a very interesting thing....

Morning Joe Host - Mika is asking for Trump to be banned from twitter. Yes a supposed "journalist" is crying for someone to have someone's freedom of speech taken away.

Honestly think about that..... a "journalist" is asking for another individuals freedom of speech be taken away. Not once did I ever see this towards Obama.


----------



## Canuck

Trump deserves every angry word he gets. He brings all this on himself with his own words and actions. He is not adequately intelligent to do the job. He is a buffoon and a moron.

A couple days ago Biden said that when he got elected he was going to cancel the Keystone XL Pipeline approval. That would be terrible for Canada right now and yet 88% of Canadians polled said they would rather see Trump lose the election and the Keystone XL Pipeline would sort itself out. USA needs that heavy oil for the efficient running of your refineries. Canadians do NOT like Trump. In fact it is safe to say that they hate him for the man he is and what he has done to our country. No wait, let me reword that... I hate they way we as Canadians are forced to kowtow to him and kiss his butt just to get along. You guys think you closed the border with Canada due to Covid. Just try and get it open and we will see who wants to keep it closed given your government's response to the crisis and the numbers as they stand.

Republicans need to wake up and give their heads a shake. Look around. It should be easy to find a better leader than the one you have. Do that and you stay in power. Keep riding the horse you got and it is over. Now that is scary....End of rant. :beer:


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## KEN W

Trump would be a LOT better off if he shut up and let Pense who is supposed to be the leader of his Covid-19 task force do the talking. He should have stopped Twitter a long time ago.

He really needs the old cliche.....Be seen and not heard.

He will never learn from his mistakes and our country cannot have 4 more years. Herbert Hoover of the 21 Century

"Make America Great " slogan is a joke. oke:

"Drain the Swamp.".......It's a LOT fuller since he has taken over. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

The media are such liars that Trump is forced to tweet or the American people will never hear the good things he intends to do. or te truth about those attacking him. People voted for Obama because he was an orator, but he was a crap leader. He weakened Americas standing in the world. run the economy into the dirt. weakened our military, allowed Biden to sell American aess to the Ukrain etc etc. Trump has corrected most of that even while under attack from Obamas weaponized FBI. God grant him four more years.


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## Resky

KEN W said:


> I may belong to the Trump haters here.....VERY SMALL group of 1. You and every one else here belongs to the BIG group of Obama haters. oke: oke:


I never hated Obama at anytime. But I despise him for the damage he did to this country along with his administration. Just like I despise the Democrats for the damage they are attempting to do now. Where you and I separate is I don't purposely post what is a known lie just to push a personal agenda of hate. A lie always fails because with today's internet the truth is just a click away. I never take anything posted in this forum as gospel and truth until I've searched the matter myself. I really don't think you will find anyone on here that drinks your brand of cool aid. Well no, on second thought there is one person but since he's not a citizen he doesn't really count.


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trump.......90,000 deaths is a "Badge of Honor." How high do the numbers have to go before people realize this guy's actions or inactions caused more deaths than he prevented. :ticked: :ticked:
> 
> 
> 
> I could not believe even Trump was crass enough to say such a thing. Sorry to say this but I wish his Badge of Honor tally included himself.
Click to expand...

That will not happen because he is taking Hydroxychloroquine. oke: :rollin: Some things are just to good to pass up. 

Ken some days I did hate Obama, but most days if I tried to I could hate what he did and not him. I dont think Hitler or Stalin or any of those people were any more evil than Obama. When he said he would "fundamentally change America" he ment destroy the America we know. We seen democrat candidates running for president last winter that dont want the America that our ansestors faught and died to give us. I often wonder if these foolish people think we can have peace with Russia and China if we are the same as them. Sometimes its hard to distinguish between a subversive and a coward. I'm sure Obama appealed to both. The cowards loved his apology tour.

As far as the 90,000 dead it would be many more if Trump had not stopped Chinese entering the country. Since democrats complained about that we know many more would have died under their leadership. New York proves that. Look st Cuomos performance. Then he tried to pass the buck tp Trump. when it wss his decision to send the infected back to nursing homes while a ship with 1000 beds sat empty. Maybe young liberals think thats an accomplishment. I have heard them laugh about the "boomer remover" and actually say we would be better off with the old bas$#÷^%ards dead.


----------



## KEN W

Resky said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may belong to the Trump haters here.....VERY SMALL group of 1. You and every one else here belongs to the BIG group of Obama haters. oke: oke:
> 
> 
> 
> I never hated Obama at anytime. But I despise him for the damage he did to this country along with his administration. Just like I despise the Democrats for the damage they are attempting to do now. Where you and I separate is I don't purposely post what is a known lie just to push a personal agenda of hate. A lie always fails because with today's internet the truth is just a click away. I never take anything posted in this forum as gospel and truth until I've searched the matter myself. I really don't think you will find anyone on here that drinks your brand of cool aid. Well no, on second thought there is one person but since he's not a citizen he doesn't really count.
Click to expand...

First of all....OK.....I DESPISE Trump. No different than the the crap you are spouting about President Obama. 
HATE equals DESPISE.

Next I don't post lies any more than you do. I just interpret differently than you do. I said what I said because I did exactly what you said you do....I researched what I posted. Even using Trumps personal TV network Fox.

Next.....you and most on here drink the FAR right koolaid. Although Chuck is a little more toward the center as I am.That is what I said.....I AM A GROUP OF 1.

The constant crap here about how EVERYTHING the Democrats say or do is bad, and how can any one belong to that party gets REAL old after awhile. :lame:

Don't bother answering.....I'm tired of the the attitudes here. Time to give this place a rest. Time to spend my time gardening and fishing.This hot topics forum is the only active one here besides the classified ads. May or may not be back in the future, since I was the first person here to register after Chris set it up. Removing Nodak from my Bookmarks.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Issues with this whole COVID stuff...

Mismanagement of data...

4 States where counting things twice...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coron ... li=BBnb7Kz

The CDC is coming out saying that COVID didn't stay on surfaces as long as it initially reported and that the "lock" down wasn't needed. Yet the WHO along with other places says it does. So we got conflicting reports and information. The CDC is saying it spreads like the "normal" flu....ie: dropplets, direct contact...ie: I sneeze and don't cover my mouth and what not.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health ... li=BBnb7Kz

Then look at FL (again too soon to fully judge)&#8230; so far it has been going good with the re-opening. But will need more time because of the 14 day or so needed for the virus to "run" its course.

So with all the misinformation, un-reliable reporting of cases and double dipping that is happening, misdiagnosis of "deaths", etc. All of it isn't getting us the info we need to make a plan to move forward. Also it doesn't help that the media isn't giving accurate info as well. Again they are taking what they are given them. But then they distort it, strike fear, mis-represent it, etc. This is all of the media... some taking it too seriously and others not serious enough.

Now to be critical of my gov. walz. I will still say he did the right thing right away to make sure that our hospitals were not over run and we got the beds, supplies, etc that were needed. Which we have in MN as of now. Our hospitals are ready to go. I don't know if he did what NY did with putting patients into nursing homes. I have seen someone state something on twitter about it but don't know if they were referencing NYC or MN. So time will tell if he did that or not.

But what is getting me is what he came out and stated yesterday. The only opening up patio or outdoor for restaurants/bars, hair salons open up to 25% capacity, etc.

1. Many places don't have outdoor seating and outdoor seating is also LOCAL jurisdiction regulated....ie: places need to get permits to do it in the towns they operate. Because of housing near by, parks, roads, etc.

2. Then with outdoor seating you are dependent on weather.... so you can staff people then they sit because it is raining.... no way to tell how much traffic you will get and what not.

3. Some places can have more people spread out indoors than outdoors with the size of buildings and what not.

4. Hair Salons..... why didn't he put this in place on May 4th when he told them first they could re-open before he moved the dead line to June. Nothing changed from what he told them back then. :eyeroll: So why wait a month???

5. Not opening gyms.... Like I stated in an article from a local gym in my area. He stated he had something like 400-500 member. His place is a 24 hr gym. He removed some machines, removed free wieghts, spaced everything 10 ft apart, added more sanitation spray, towels, wipes, etc. Has signage up everywhere stating need to wipe down machines after useage, is cleaning the place up to 3 times aday himself, etc. He could only have a total of 40 people in his gym now at one time at max. Which he stated has never happened to have that many people in his gym at once ever in the 7 years he owned it. But he cant open when a Walmart or other big box store can have as many people as they want with no sanitation of things they touch...ie: you look at a box of cereal and put it back on the shelf.

Then add in the fact of what the CDC article I posted talks about.

Hopefully after the june 1st dead line or by mid june Walz moves forward a little more aggressively with opening back up. Especially after more data comes out of FL.

I wont even bring up WI and the bars opening there. I think Walz just want some DUI money coming in from the MN people going over there to drink and coming back.... yes that is a joke! But I live down close enough to the boarder and there has been people in my town that took a trip to WI last weekend to have a drink and get out of the house.


----------



## dakotashooter2

KEN W said:


> Trump would be a LOT better off if he shut up and let Pense who is supposed to be the leader of his Covid-19 task force do the talking. He should have stopped Twitter a long time ago.
> 
> He really needs the old cliche.....Be seen and not heard.
> 
> He will never learn from his mistakes and our country cannot have 4 more years. Herbert Hoover of the 21 Century
> 
> "Make America Great " slogan is a joke. oke:
> 
> "Drain the Swamp.".......It's a LOT fuller since he has taken over. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


I'm not gonna deny that Trump is his own worst enemy.. He definitely likes to hear himself talk...I like many of his ideas but honestly I thought he would do much better.. I'm truly saddened that he hasn't gotten America back on the right financial track. On the other side of that is Biden. He out and out should not be running. Given what we are seeing of his mental state does anyone want to see him have to make quick decisions often required of the job.. If Biden would win he will be a total puppet of the democratic party. At least till the Vice President has to take over. Given what they have been pulling the last couple of months That would be a bad deal for everyone. Covid may be the least of our worries.


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## KEN W

I know I said I would take a break from here......but I just wanted to report this...

CDC now says virus is not easily spread much from touching surfaces. Mainly from person to person contact.

This report came from FOX NEWS.


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## Chuck Smith

I also posted about it above....

Here is the link I got off MSN

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health ... li=BBnb7Kz


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## Plainsman

> Chuck is a little more toward the center as I am.


 A good thing I was faced in a safe direction or I would have spit Vanilla Coke all over my keyboard.



> CDC now says virus is not easily spread much from touching surfaces. Mainly from person to person contact.


That's good news Ken. Didn't the WHO at the beginning tell us it couldn't be transmitted person to person. Maybe that was China. Someone told us that.



> This report came from FOX NEWS.


 :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:


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## KEN W

The Clown Prince......."I will override the Governors." Classic Trump Stunt. Another lie. Nothing new for this guy. He does it all the time. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

President CANNOT tell the Governors what they can and cannot do.

"Notably, when reporters asked White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany to identify which provision of federal law permits the president to override a governor's public health order, McEnany did not do so. Instead, her answer -"the president will strongly encourage every governor to allow churches to reopen" - appeared to concede that Trump only has the power to try to persuade governors to change their policies."


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## Plainsman

There are times of emergency etc that the president can overide the governors. I would guess he can overide when governors viloate the constiution. Freedom of religeon is guaranteed by the constitution. Now if only we would get a president who woukd really enforce the second amendment.


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## KEN W

Every thing I have read says....no he can't. Show me in the constitution where he can. The Congress can. But the president can't. His press secretary said he can only encourage. He knows it and LIED anyway. Typical Trump. uke:


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## Plainsman

I think your right Ken



> Martial law is an extreme and rare measure used to control society during war or periods of civil unrest or chaos. According to the Supreme Court, the term martial law carries no precise meaning (Duncan v. Kahanamoku, 327 U.S. 304, 66 S. Ct. 606, 90 L. Ed. 688 [1946]). However, most declarations of martial law have some common features. Generally, the institution of martial law contemplates some use of military force. To a varying extent, depending on the martial law order, government military personnel have the authority to make and enforce civil and criminal laws. Certain civil liberties may be suspended, such as the right to be free from unreasonable SEARCHES AND SEIZURES, FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION, and freedom of movement. And the writ of HABEAS CORPUS may be suspended (this writ allows persons who are unlawfully imprisoned to gain freedom through a court proceeding).
> 
> In the United States, martial law has been instituted on the national level only once, during the Civil War, and on a regional level only once, during WORLD WAR II. Otherwise, it has been limited to the states.


I was thinking along these lines, but it looks like he can override the governors to shut things down, but not to open back up things like we are experiencing now. I found many conflicting thoughts on this, but they were all contemporary and depended on whether you supported or hated Trump. Many explained that Trump had no legal power to force governors, but that he could control the purse and also create great political pressure for the governors. I think he can make them hurt if they don't allow churches to open. I find the political leaning has a curious component here. Liberal states are allowing bars to reopen, but not churches. I think that says a lot about liberal/democrat politicians and those who support them. It's a shame we are so divided these days. I'm sure many are for opening bars, but their partisanship dictates they must oppose opening churches. To give you a hint where I stand I have told my wife I want to be second in her life. God should be first in her life.


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## KEN W

You are correct. He can and has threatened to withhold federal money.

Newest thing is he has threatened to move the Republican National Convention out of North Carolina. He doesn't like the Democratic Governor.


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## Plainsman

If I was republican I wouldn't hold a convention in any state with a democrat governor. I'm sure the democrats do the same. As far as withholding money I don't think any state that has a sanctuary city should get any help from the feds. If they want to coddle illegal immigrants at our expense look for money from someone else. California would probably ask China and they would help a state like California.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> If I was republican I wouldn't hold a convention in any state with a democrat governor. I'm sure the democrats do the same. As far as withholding money I don't think any state that has a sanctuary city should get any help from the feds. If they want to coddle illegal immigrants at our expense look for money from someone else. California would probably ask China and they would help a state like California.


 :thumb: :thumb:


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## Resky

California had churches closed and with the courts approval. Trump announced he would cut off funding to states that kept churches closed and California's Newsom caved in 24 hours. Churches are now open in his state with certain guide lines. I guess trying to crush part of the first amendment was a little to costly for the governor.

I'm sure the President doesn't like the Democrat governor of North Carolina but the reason he is threatening to move the convention is because the governor won't give assurance that the convention will be allowed attendance by people.

Power and other peoples money is about the only thing the far left worships. Threaten either of those and the socialist will cave in a heart beat.


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## Chuck Smith

Trump over speaks all the time about what he can and cant do.

His press Secretary did a good job of trying to stop the media. Saying "he will work with the govenors and states". just like when he stated about the reopening/closing. He is using the federal $$$ as leverage. Which I think is BS to do. Unless they are taking away rights....ie: freedom of religion and assembly. But a federal Judge did say CA is right in doing it. But the article i read didn't state if what federal judge or court said this. So was it one of those courts that just will side no matter what against Trump to just push it to the Supreme Court... I am not sure. But it seems more and more judges at the federal level are doing this.

Edit:

I just read a tweet from Trump basically saying the federal goverment is doing a good job getting supplies to people for the virus and then he also stated something along the lines of.... Making Govenors/States look good but not getting credit for helping. Some will take this as him wanting all the attention. Which I dont blame them. But it is also saying that when govenors are complaining about Fed help... they did it and did a good job....ie: Stop complaining. It just a matter if you hate him or can see thru his BS and how he actually talks. This is how he does it... back handed. He has done it since day 1. The passive aggressive type.


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## KEN W

This is what he said ......

He provided "Unlimited Testing " to the States and made Governors "Look Very Good."

What a total crock. He pretty much did nothing. Governors and Mayors did everything in there states. Some better than others. Yet he wants to take credit. That is totally him every time he sees something he can boast about. How can the Republican Party believe this guy should get another 4 years???? :huh: :huh:


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## Chuck Smith

That isn't the one I read.... it had to do with ventiltors, supply chains, beds, etc. Wasn't the "unlimited testing".

Yes many states did this on there own. Which he said they needed to instead of asking for the fed for everything. Which he shoudnt be spouting off about. Unless it was a state that the fed did do everything for. Which there are some.... but not many.

But the "very good" was in the tweet i read as well.

You are correct about him "boasting"... which isn't presidental at all. But is the media helping at all with spreading the news of anything he does that is actually good?? Or do they twist everything around? But it is his personality to be boastful... remember he is the "best", "greatest", etc. :eyeroll:


----------



## Resky

Chuck Smith said:


> But a federal Judge did say CA is right in doing it. But the article i read didn't state if what federal judge or court said this.


Shouldn't be a surprise it was the 9th circuit of appeals that ruled in 2-1 decision in favor of Newsom. Their supporting reason was a quote from a previous judge that said "if a court "does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact".

The judge that said that was the former supreme court judge Jackson in 1949. The case in which that quote was made was about two anti government groups that used the constitution to support their anti constitution agenda in the courts. These two judges today take the out of context quote to support their belief that a judge need not follow the law but use their own personal beliefs in issuing a decision.

As I said, no surprise what comes out of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.


----------



## KEN W

Here's another tweet from over the weekend.....

President Trump tweeted over the 2020 Memorial Day weekend that he 'sacrificed a lot to be your president.'

Here is what he said on Twitter......

"We made most Governors look very good, even great, by getting them the Ventilators, unlimited Testing, and supplies, all of which they should have had in their own stockpiles. So they look great, and I just keep rolling along."

It's always.... look at me. I'm the greatest. He is a Mohamed Ali wannabe. uke: uke: uke:


----------



## Resky

The true quote without being chopped off after the word along with a added period.

"We made most Governors look very good, even great, by getting them the Ventilators, unlimited Testing, and supplies, all of which they should have had in their own stockpiles. So they look great, and I just keep rolling along, doing great things and getting Fake Lamestream News!"

Yep, he was as usual bragging but in context he was saying despite the fake news he was just rolling along/pushing onward despite fake news.


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## Plainsman

> You are correct about him "boasting"... which isn't presidental at all.


  A lot like Obama. What was it 90 some times Obama used "I" in a half hour speech. He didnt say we because he gave his staff or no one else credit when he thought he had achieved something. Personally I thought it was great when he accepted the blame for the things he did. :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith

If you dont think the media is the problem.... watch this clip. They keep pressing to have someone put an "acceptable" number of deaths out there. Which 0 is the only acceptable number. But they keep pressing. Glad the knew press secretary put him in his place.


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## dakotashooter2

PEOPLE DIE.....Every day... The public doesn't have a clue how many people die every day from various causes. Most would be shocked if they realized the number....currently the number of covid related deaths doesn't even come close to the number of cancer related deaths in an equal amount of time but the CDC and press don't publish those numbers. No... we don't need ANOTHER way of dying.... But this is how life works...


----------



## Machiavelli

Having not logged in here for a few years, I saw this post. It was hilarious to watch people's opinions evolve the same way Trump's did over time looking at the dates on their posts :lol: :lol:

You apologists sure are something.


----------



## Plainsman

Machiavelli a philosopher you are not. Liberals are predictable, and they feed off the media talking points. I believe it was you who was so excited that because Bush was wearing an earpiece that someone backstage was giving him the answers in his debates, not realizing that the secret service most often has that type of connection to the president when he is in public.

I think the Trump Derangement Syndrome is simply because he opposes their passions in life. liberals have three main passions. They may say they are tolerant etc, but we know that's a sham. They want what they want and the three things important to them are: they want the money others have earned, they want abortion, and they want gay rights. So they don't want to work, they don't want responsibility of children, and they want a man as a lover. Nature will take care of that just like the dinosaur. We keep our kids and pass on our values. Liberals abort theirs and try pass on their values through public education. We all realize the big news of the pregnant man a few years ago was ludicrous so no kids from them. So if your a philosopher think about these things and if your an intelligent philosopher there is no denying the results I listed.


----------



## Plainsman

Remember some of you fellows saying Trump should follow the science? Remember you thought Trump was killing people by recommending hydroxychloroquin? Remember how angry you were with him? Well you suckered again. You have suckered so many times I have lost count. Tonight its revealed the studies on hydroxychloroquin were fraud. The data didnt say what was reported. Fauchi looks like a fool. Two doctors on tv said politics and medicine should not be mixed. Trump didnt get people killed, but the fool Fauchi did.


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## Resky

At first I took Fauci at face value as a professional with experience we should listen to. Then all of a sudden he back peddled on several issues and had a habit of contradicting the President. Actually Fauci never admits he is wrong but just changes his message. First he claimed not to reopen schools but just recently said they should reopen.

I now realize he is more of a politician than a doctor and certainly not scientific in anything he says. Haven't seen him with Trump the last couple of weeks. I think the President has come to realize what this guy really is.


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## Plainsman

Same here Resky. Now we have to face the fact that our average liberal neighbors, friends, and relatives are ok with people dying if it hurts Trump. Trump Derangment Syndome has become lethal. Is the right to kill your own unborn child thst important? Is the right to marry your same sex lover that important? If they could get away with murder would they openly kill us? I think tolerance was simply a weapon of the left and would need not think twice before they dropped the hammer on you and I. Some may say this is hyperbole, but I seriously see them as intolerant, willing to kill, deranged people.

Liberals will say they are not for abortion. They hide behind the fecade of a womans right. When it comes to same sex marriage they hide behind the facade of tolerance. Meanwhile they are the least tolerant people you will ever meet.


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## Chuck Smith

Since this isn't getting talked about much. And you are only hearing about an "INCREASE"... or "SECOND WAVE".. .BS.

In MN now we are at a 6.5% infection rate of those tested... that was closer to 8-10% there for the longest time. We are at an 87% "recovery" rate or people no longer needing isolation. We were always around 80-82%. People in the ICU or "requiring" ICU has been dropping since June 1. Same goes for Hospitalizations.

We need to see what the numbers are this next 7-10 Days since it has been about 2 weeks since things started to open back up more....ie: 50% inside capacity for Restaurants, hair cuts, gyms, etc. But so far everything looks or points into opening up even more.

Now a side note that you are not hearing in the news is that many of the "new cases" are people testing positive for the anti-body. Which means you are healthy now but you had the virus at one point. Here in my area the Mayo Clinic is making its employee's to get tested. So even if someone has been working from home for over a year. They test positive for the antibody... it will be a "positive" case or "new cases". So it all depends on how you want to spin this for your narrative. But in some states you are not seeing "antibody" cases on the rise you are seeing actual cases. But you are also seeing more and more testing. I know some of the states that are getting reported as "high" or "record" numbers... those are some states that had 5 cases a day and now are seeing 50... yes that is a "huge" increase... but look at testing numbers or percentages. While some percentages are rising. Which needs to be addressed as to why and where and what. But others it isn't the case. But what do you expect from news outlets that want to push narratives and not give the full scope of the situation. Hence why you see me always talking about percentages.

Edit:
Did some digging on the "death" totals in MN. So 79% of the deaths are of people who were in a long term care or assisted living type of facility. This doesn't mention anything about a group home or anything like that. But just the long term care/assisted living.

Now of the death totals.... from Age 60-100+ there was 7593 cases of COVID... with 1293 deaths. That is a 17% rate of death in that age group... which is a huge age rage. But here is the kicker.... there is only 1384 total deaths in MN... so out of the death and that age group....they contribute 93% of the death totals. But if you want to break that down further.... the age group of 80-100+ has 862 deaths. So 62% of all deaths are in people who are over 80 years of age.

So again... who do you need to protect or need to take precautions the most. People in assisted type care facilities people over the age of 60... and especially if you are over the age of 80 need to take precautions. :bop:


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## Canuck

Chuck Smith said:


> So again... who do you need to protect or need to take precautions the most. People in assisted type care facilities people over the age of 60... and especially if you are over the age of 80 need to take precautions. :bop:


The ones you are not worried about are the ones spreading the virus around and are the ones directly or indirectly infecting vulnerable groups. A best case scenario would include worrying about pockets of virus and outbreaks across the entire population I think. The most successful countries have used distancing, masks, testing and/or closures across their entire population.

I think some parts of Canada are jumping the gun a bit. If they are, then many US States are as well. Time will tell.

Side-Note*** I have made annual trips to ND to hunt pheasants since 1990. Have not missed a year. Even during my three year stint dealing with cancer, where I had six weeks of daily radiation, two rounds of chemo, three surgeries and a colostomy bag for two years, I did not miss a season. I fear the border will still be closed come October. Cancer couldn't stop me but the Covid-19 virus likely will, unless everyone takes things a little more seriously instead of "joking" around.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck...

That is the point.... if those others work in a particular field they need to take precautions. It they have vunerable people then they need to take precautions. ETC. Also with what we know now...ie: Taking temps, dont go to work if you feel sick, etc. All of this is going on now in many places to help with the spread.

It is showing that things need to be opened back up but with the right precautions. Like you stated look out or take more precautions if things start to "break out". In my area there is a place over in WI that the media is talking about or "freaking" out about OUTBREAKS.... La Crosse County. Yes they have seen up ticks in cases. But again it is 20 some people. It isn't like 100, 300, etc. It is something to be concerned about. But it isn't as bad as the press is making it out to be. They are still at about 8% infection rate. But it went up by 3% or what ever.

BTW... I heard the board shut down got extended to mid July as of now. Hope it opens back up so people can travel between the countries to do the recreational things we all love. Also to go see friends and family members.


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## Chuck Smith

So just read this on twitter. So again it could be a total conspiracy BS and totally false.

But something to just keep an eye out for. I know major media wont say a thing about it for sure....

But the reason for some spiked cases in AZ and TX is that they are taking in patients from MEXICO and those numbers are being counted towards US numbers.

AGAIN NOTHING IS CONFIRMED ON THIS.... IT IS TWITTER GOSSIP... so who knows. But if it is true it shows you how $$$ is making these hospitals report numbers wrong to get funding. This is the only reason why they would do it.

But lets just hope that this isn't the case. If it is found out to be the case...1. FRAUD is happening to get funding or worse. 2. Hospitals are now being used as political weapons. Again I hope that none of this is true. Just something to keep an eye out for.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/07/us/c ... entro.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2Ctjwf ... pp=desktop

Now not 100% sure on these two sources.... but it looks like it could be true.

Now if they are dual citizens then that is a gray area of who or where the numbers should be counted. Because like I mentioned... did they get it in the USA or Mexico. You cant tell with an invisible virus. Only way is if they were a complete shut in. That is if they travel back and forth daily or weekly. If it has been 3 months since they been in USA... that is then questionable.

But again something to keep an eye out. Again this isn't "illegals"... this is hospitals accepting people or from other hospitals that are over run by cases on border facilities. Plus DUAL citizens. So please dont take this as "illegal" bashing. :bop:


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## Canuck

While there may be anomalies within the States as far as numbers of Covid cases go, how do you explain away the fact that the USA has 4% of the world population and more than 25% of all deaths?
Based on the ongoing daily increases in the USA, today the European Union will be banning travel to their countries from the USA.


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## Plainsman

> Based on the ongoing daily increases in the USA, today the European Union will be banning travel to their countries from the USA.


 Good maybe that will keep some of the socialist influence out.

I see the numbers are going up in Texas and Arizona. Strange how they go up even before Trump gets there. Hospitals get more gov money for corvid patients. I also hear Texas and Arizona are accepting Mexicans that have corvid and counting them as Texas and Arizona infections. Why?


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## Chuck Smith

> how do you explain away the fact that the USA has 4% of the world population and more than 25% of all deaths?


This is sad but true..... Diabetes, heart disease, obesity, not healthy adults, etc.

About 30,000,000 adults in the USA have diabetes... .that is about 10% of the population. 26,000,000 have asthma. Then throw in heart disease.... then the obesity problem, non active adults, lung conditions (asthma), etc. This is an exact correlation to increase in deaths.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... tions.html

https://www.aafa.org/asthma-facts/

Those are the sad but true facts. The USA population is fat, lazy, diabetic, and has asthma.


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## Plainsman

That's right Chuck and don't forget heart function. I was getting so I couldn't catch my breath and even make it up the stairs from the basement. I take metoprolol succinate to keep my heart strong enough to stay upright.


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## Chuck Smith

Well... my COVID update today for MN.

The cases went up from yesterday from just over 300 new cases to 365. But again this could be tests finally done from 3 days ago. Plus "antibody" finding which means that a person had it.

We are at a total testing vs positive tests at 6.3%... it was at 6.4% yesterday... so it is going down.

the Recovery rate for the state was at about 88% which is staying steady and would like to see it go up to above 90% but it seems to be holding around the 85-88% recovery rates.

ICU beds 162 and the past few days they have been in the 160's. They haven't been in the 200's since 6-7-2020. So this is good news and what Walz didn't want happen never did. The ICU getting overwhelmed.

In the past 10 days that have completed 113,680 tests. So an average of over 11,000 tests a day.

In that same 10 day period there was 2334 positive tests. That is a 2% infection rate. So less than the 6.3% average during the whole period since testing started back in the beginning of March. Also remember what happened about 2 weeks ago... riots, protests, funeral for Mr. Floyd. So a lot of exposure and no "spikes" so far in any cases. So next week if no MAJOR spikes it should be time to start to lift more restrictions. :bop:


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## Resky

It's the same thing in my state. One case more than the previous day and they call it a spike when in reality things are pretty steady and flat.

I have noticed one thing though and that is in every city or county in my state that the area has a casino there has been a dramatic increase of the virus. I know there are some people that will occasionally visit a casino for recreation but, there are those that are so addicted to gambling and spending their monthly government welfare check, if the place was on fire they would ask the fire fighter to just put out the fire around them and not interrupt their machine.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/state ... p#image=11



> States Where COVID-19 Cases Have Doubled Since Last Month


So the media isn't trying to stir hype.... MN they say is the 9th most rises in positive cases for the last month....or has "doubled"

MAYBE IT IS BECAUSE OF TESTING.... they say that MN is doing more testing. But lets look at the numbers

* From early March (start of collecting data) to May 13th..... 141,269 tests......

* May 14th to June 22nd (this is the data period in the article)..... 378,988 tests.

That is how many tests were done in that time frame from may 14th to june 22nd. Then using the data.... had an increase of 19,792 cases. That is an infection rate during that time period of 5.22%.

Still down from what the average is over the whole time frame from the Start of march until now.... which like I stated is 6.3%.

So yeah of course when you test more you will have more cases. But the average per person is going down!!! Which again the national average was something like 10% or even under. I cant remember.

YEP MEDIA REALLY PAINTING A CLEAR PICTURE.... uke:

In the whole article they highest "testing" rate or positive testing average was AZ at 12.7% of the people tested have it. Which is HIGH... I am not trying to make light of what is going on. But I dont know the testing numbers...ie: are they testing 10,000 people a day or testing 1,000.


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## Canuck

Chuck, here is a way to look at things that takes testing out of the equation.

Around the world 5,247,040 people recovered from Covid and were discharged from the hospital. At the same time 488,724 (9%) people died from Covid.

In the USA 1,046,836 people were diagnosed and recovered. At the same time 124,385 (11%) people died from the Virus.

Most of the deaths as we know were older or compromised in some other way.
Still, this tells me (I'm 68 and compromised from cancer treatments) that if I get the Covid I have at least a ten percent chance of dying. Here's a link to the data

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

I, for one, would not feel like less of a man for wearing a mask. Those who refuse to wear them because they don't want to offend Trump are dumber than he is.

5,247,040 (91%)
Recovered / Discharged

488,724 (9%)
Deaths

1,046,836 (89%)
Recovered / Discharged

124,835 (11%)
Deaths


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## Plainsman

I said to heck with a mask yesterday, but I am going to put up chain link around my yard to keep the mosquitoes out.

We did near 600 tests in Jamestown on Monday and the results came back with two cases. When you double testing and cases only go up 50% thats a big decline if you ever took statistics.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> I said to heck with a mask yesterday, but I am going to put up chain link around my yard to keep the mosquitoes out.
> 
> We did near 600 tests in Jamestown on Monday and the results came back with two cases. When you double testing and cases only go up 50% thats a big decline if you ever took statistics.


?

Chain link......does that really work in Jamestown? :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Good for Jamestown.....people must be smart there and are taking precautions. :thumb: :thumb:


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## Canuck

Yes Plainsman, I took Stats as part of my B.Sc. (Fish and Wildlife Biology, 1974)

North Dakota and Manitoba have dealt with the virus fairly well and are pretty good examples when compared to other States and Provinces. But the virus is now surging in many locations in both our countries, mostly due to opening things up and not distancing and not wearing masks.

I admit that I had to suck up my manhood to wear a mask, especially in a little rural town where everyone is a bunch of ******** that would probably be supporting Trump if they were not Canadian! I made a joke of it a said stick em up when I got to the teller in the bank!!!!! She just laughed, through her mask.

https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/north-dakota


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## Plainsman

> Chain link......does that really work in Jamestown? :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


 Ya we got huge mosquitoes. They are so big they cant fly. They sneak up behind you and bite you in the ***.

I would have stuck with the mask, but when I went to Minards the other day there was only onevother guy with a mask. Thinking about the micron size of a virus, and the relatively course mesh of masks the difference is greater than mosquitoes and chain link. I think they are false security. I guess it helps keep us frightened.


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## Resky

I always wear a mask though most others don't. Even though I have difficulty breathing when wearing a mask, I don't wear it so much for my own protection as I know the virus can get through a mask. I wear a mask in the event if I had the virus and didn't know it and I should cough or sneeze, at least It would dilute the amount of spray in the air and maybe protect others. The masks I use have a replaceable carbon filter inside. Don't know if that helps or not but it puts me at ease.


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## Plainsman

I have hmmmm the type they first recommended. I went out in my woodshop and found four of the good ones and a dozen without the valve. I had stopped wearing it for a couple of days, but for others to be at ease may start again. My wife and I had been around no one since mid February.

I dont get these people who wear it only mouth only with their nose sticking completely out. They should fog up their glasses and stumble around like me. Now for you guys who think Trump really wanted to stop testing that was not meant to be taken serious.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck....

I totally agree with your stats. The one thing is that the Death rate isn't skyrocketing. It is the number of cases. Which is also correlated to the "antibody" testing. So lets say I go in and get tested and it says I have the antibody (which is a good thing because I can donate blood and plasma to help others). But it means I had the virus and didn't know it. But it will show that a "new case" was found and put people in alarm because cases went up. You never hear about the "recovery rate" or even the "antibody" test results. You only hear in the media about "cases" and "case increases". They are not reporting the 100% truth or the whole scope of the crisis. They want to spread FEAR. Just like the stats i posted above about how an article comes out and states "MN CASES DOUBLE IN A MONTHS TIME".... they did... but testing damn near tripled. I also showed how the infection rate has actually declined during the time frame they said things doubled. So you see they are not telling the whole truth or a complete picture of what is really happening.

The death rate is exactly how you described it. if you get the virus in the USA you have an 11% of death. Granted it changes per different demographics but that is the stats. Just like in the world your death rate is 9% again difference between demographics as well. Just like where you are having "hot spots" or places that "broke out" early you need to look at demographics on how people lived, living conditions, living situations (multigenerational households), customs, etc. But those rates havent really changed since the onset of this crisis.

Now back to the media and testing. Trump came out and stated less testing. He is saying the Federal goverment is now not responsible for more testing and is going to "scale" back. What is happening is FEMA is going to work with the State's and private companies and hand over the testing to them. Since many Private firms can do more tests than FEMA. Actually it is coming out that testing is going to be doing more or capable of doing more now that FEMA is out of it. But the media wont tell you this all they will say is "TRUMP SAYS NO MORE TESTING IS NEEDED".... yep the media is so full of the TRUTH.

But back to why you need to take testing and number of tests into account is because it will show the actual infection rate. This needs to be a factor when you want to open things up. Because it will show what area's need not open and what area's can open up. Because if an infection rate per testing is at 20% those places should not open up. If an infection rate is at 3% those should or could open back up.

Here is a simple example. A teacher has 100 student they teach the exact same thing to all of them. But they are in 5 different classes/periods. So 20 students per classroom. The teacher gives them the exact same test to all 100 students. One class room had 5 students (cases) fail the test. So that is a 25% failure rate...for that class room. If the school board only looked at that.... it might be grounds to terminate or not "renew" a contract with said teacher. But now if you take into the account that no other classes had any kids fail that test. So out of 100 tests... that teacher had only those 5 failures. So that is a 5% failure rate. You see you need to take the total number of tests... not just cases into account when trying to figure out what is going on. What you can see is that the one classroom is a "hot spot" and needs to be dealt with or see what the circumstances are.

But with that said about the circumstances.... we need to dig into why the percentages are spiking. Like I mentioned in another post... is it because cases from Mexico that are getting helped in our hospitals are getting counted towards the number of cases??? I dont know that answer... Is it because of more testing and who is getting tested?? ... it could be.... is it because they opened up and people dont care??? ... dont know that either.... or is it because of the riots, protests, etc??? ... who knows.

But there are lots of factors that need to be looked at and explained. But dont hold your breathe if you think the media will do it.... or even out elected officials. Because everything is so political and all they want to do is hurt the other party or drive a narrative. :bop:

Now about the masks debate... I am wearing one when i remember. I think it is more of a "placebo" affect more than anything for people. Because the Science is all over the place on it. Some say it protects others and not yourself. Others say it doesn't do a damn thing. So who really knows. But if it makes others comfortable i will try my best and if it gives someone piece of mind to wear one then go ahead and do it.


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## Canuck

Something is wrong to the south.....

EDIT: So I researched this further. There are likely two reasons numbers are higher in the USA:
1) Population Density
2) Population Density :beer: :rollin: :beer:


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck...

That is one thing nobody is talking about on the media is that type of demographics you talk about....ie: density.

Like I mentioned about Italy during the beginning. They live in a multigenerational households, live in very close to each other, etc.

Now with TX and FL.... it will be interesting why or what. Population is a small factor. Because you look at the "hot spots"... Houston in TX.... Phoenix area in AZ.... and not sure of the hot spot in FL. But yes population density is a factor... but something else is in play.

BTW... I read an article over the weekend that stated MN is on the "rise".... do I need to keep going over the stats about testing.... MN does about 12,000-15,000 tests daily.... so when you see a "spike" in cases reported of 500.... it is still less than 5% infection rate..... more like 4% and under. But of course you wont hear this in the media. BTW... MN saw an increase of 523 cases yesterday.... well they also did 14997 tests... .that is a 3.5% infection rate... WAY BELOW THE STATES AVERAGE.... which is....6.1%. But the national media wants to say MN is seeing a "spike" incases.


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## Canuck

Yes it appears there are a lot more positive people out there and increased testing is identifying those cases, many being asymptomatic carriers. If you forget testing numbers, hospitalizations may be a more easily understood statistic and the number of deaths even more so. The problem is that hospitalizations and death lag todays numbers by one week and two weeks, respectively.
By then your hospitals can be overwhelmed in the time it takes identify the outbreak or hotspot through testing.


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## Chuck Smith

> If you forget testing numbers, hospitalizations may be a more easily understood statistic and the number of deaths even more so. The problem is that hospitalizations and death lag todays numbers by one week and two weeks, respectively.
> By then your hospitals can be overwhelmed in the time it takes identify the outbreak or hotspot through testing.


You are correct about the hospitalizations and more importantly is the ICU numbers. The death numbers are also something to look at. But again with those numbers people are not telling the truth. It has been documented and talked about over in this thread. The Death numbers are getting inflated. If you are in hospice care with only a week left because of cancer (according to doctors) and you pass away in that week. They do a COVID test.... if you are found to have COVID... it is marked as a COVID death not CANCER. See the issue with just taking death numbers. Then the fact of the underlying conditions and what not. The Death numbers what you need to look at is where these people are located....ie: Nursing care, assisted living, drug treatment, adult care, etc. Then you need to figure out how to protect those people. Do you do daily testing of the workers, take temps of workers and or family members visiting, do extra cleaning, make sure ventalation system has filters or some precautions, etc. Just like if the "outbreak" was in schools... you would need to make a plan for them or shut them down. Which our country did when this whole COVID was an "unknown" type thing. But now we have more and more info on it and learning more daily.

But if you want me to bring in MN stats on Hospitalization i can....

We saw a "peak" of ICU numbers and Hospitalizations in mid-late may... 5/19-5/31.... Hospitalizations were in the 300's and peaking at 364. ICU numbers were 200's and peaking at 264. So not good numbers and something to worry about.... now for from the time period of 6/9-6/28. Hospitalizations 256 at the highest on 6/9 and now are down in the 140's. ICU numbers on 6/9 was 199 and now down in the 140's. You might say what happened the week of 6/1-6/8.....Hospitalizations during that time frame.... was peak at 296 on JUNE 1 and went down to 254... so decreasing. ICU beds was 253 on JUNE 1 and went down to 198. So again... decreasing.

But you wont hear any of this in the media.... you will just hear about "Cases". Again... we are not hearing anything about ICU/hospitalizations in FL... in Houston you are hearing them talk about hospitalizations.... but not in FL or AZ. So we are not getting a clear picture of FL and AZ.... we are getting one in Houston area. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

So lets look at todays numbers for MN....

7522 tests done... 315 "new" cases. That is a 4.2% infection rate.

Yes the death total is 10... 2 were in prison, 2 were in private residence, 6 in a care facility. The age range for the deaths was 40-99. With 3 being in the 40-49 year range. But again we dont know the details of those deaths....ie: previous health conditions or not.

The Hospitalizations is at 278 and ICU beds at 140.... so non ICU beds is 138. So not "overwhelmed"... but again you wont see any of this in the media... you will hear 315 cases.

Again it has been about a month since the "riots" and about 14 days since the funeral where many gathered. Lets not forget about all the "Pride" parades this past weekend. Which again I am not saying not to have those. But when the media talks about "cases" and the COVID... they say Trump rallies are bad.... but the rest of the parades, riots, protests, gathering, etc are OK.... Hypocrisy at its finest. oke:


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## Plainsman

Someone in gov has baited the hospitals with money. On another outdoor site a person talked about a relative passing away who didn't test positive after death, but his death was counted as a covid death. That's simply dishonest. They also get more money for rushing people to a ventilator.

I'm watching closely because if it actually goes up I'm going back to a mask and grocery pick up.


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## Chuck Smith

> I'm watching closely because if it actually goes up I'm going back to a mask and grocery pick up.


You are doing this as a personal choice. WHICH IS EXACTLY what it should be on much of this. Personal Choice if you want to go to the store. Personal choice if you want to wear a mask. Just like it is a "personal" choice if a stores management or corp. says "we want people to wear masks". Then it is your choice if you want to shop at that store in person. Because many of these stores that are making masks mandatory have curb side pick up or delivery options. IT is your option to go in... but you need to abide by their rules.

I just urge anyone no matter what state you live in is go to that states website and do your own research. Take the data and figure out what you want to do personally for your safety. Dont listen to the media because they are not telling the whole truth. You can look at death totals if that is what you want to base your decisions on. You can look at testing and cases.... what ever you feel comfortable making your personal decision on. Dont let the media spoon feed you.


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## Chuck Smith

> I'm watching closely because if it actually goes up I'm going back to a mask and grocery pick up.


You are doing this as a personal choice. WHICH IS EXACTLY what it should be on much of this. Personal Choice if you want to go to the store. Personal choice if you want to wear a mask. Just like it is a "personal" choice if a stores management or corp. says "we want people to wear masks". Then it is your choice if you want to shop at that store in person. Because many of these stores that are making masks mandatory have curb side pick up or delivery options. IT is your option to go in... but you need to abide by their rules.

I just urge anyone no matter what state you live in is go to that states website and do your own research. Take the data and figure out what you want to do personally for your safety. Dont listen to the media because they are not telling the whole truth. You can look at death totals if that is what you want to base your decisions on. You can look at testing and cases.... what ever you feel comfortable making your personal decision on. Dont let the media spoon feed you.


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## Chuck Smith

Read these twitter comments... well the first few explaining ICU beds and hospitialzation in TX...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1277627671216709632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1275868742287634435
He is stating that they have more of the availability if needed and that the hopsitals themselves are saying they can handle another surge. They dont need the "emergency" type tents yet like they did in NYC.

Also when talking death rates. I read that TX is 20 times less than NYC. So if you go by death rates it isn't close. As of now. :thumb:

Also they are seeing the surge of younger patients and hospital stays are shorter. :thumb:

but again this is stuff you wont see in the media when they talk about COVID. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy ... pital-case

Read this article it is stating misguiding facts about COVID patients. How the Hospitals are doing the "misreporting".



> COVID-19 hospitalizations there have been on a steady upward track for about the last two weeks, per the state's coronavirus dashboard, which on Thursday recorded about 4,400 coronavirus hospitalizations in the state. But at least part of that trend may be due to liberal coding policies by state officials.
> 
> Lindsey Rosales, a spokeswoman for the Texas Department of State Health Services, confirmed to Just the News this week that the state is categorizing every inpatient in the state with a positive COVID-19 test as a COVID-19 hospitalization.
> 
> "The number of hospitalized patients includes patients with a lab-confirmed case of COVID-19 even if the person is admitted to the hospital for a different reason," Rosales said.





> Queries to multiple Texas hospital officials this week went unanswered. But leaders of several major hospitals in Houston this week urged the public to remain calm, suggesting that the extent of the outbreak has been overstated.
> 
> At a virtual press conference on Thursday, the chief executives of Houston Methodist, Memorial Hermann Health System, St. Luke's Health, and Texas Children's hospitals stated that their hospitals are well-prepared to handle an even greater increase in patients than that which has emerged over the past few weeks.





> The number of hospitalizations are "being misinterpreted," said Houston Methodist CEO Marc Boom, "and, quite frankly, we're concerned that there is a level of alarm in the community that is unwarranted right now."
> 
> "We do have the capacity to care for many more patients, and have lots of fluidity and ability to manage," Boom said.


So is the media hype accurate??? When you have actual hospital CEO's telling you what is going on.

Again we need to take all of this seriously but are we getting a true picture of things.... :down:


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## Plainsman

This is perhaps closer to the truth thsn any of us even suspect.


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## Chuck Smith

Update by MN numbers.... and BTW... the media says "minnesota is "increasing" and could be a "hot spot".... uke: uke:

426 cases today with 11,886 tests completed... .that is an infection rate of 3.6%. ICU beds decreased to 125 and hospital beds increases by 1 from the previous day to 135. 4 new deaths all from long term care facilites.

So here are some numbers for everyone

*April 1 - April 30*

- 59,627 Tests done
- 7,182 positive cases
- 12% infection rate
- 331 Deaths
- 932 Needed Hospitalization of those 326 in ICU Beds
- 13% Hospitalization rate

*May 1 - May 31*

- 195,008 tests completed
- 18,267 positive cases
- 9.4% infection rate
- 696 Deaths
- 2003 Needed Hospitalization of those 613 needed ICU Beds
- 11% Hospitalization rate

*June 1 - June 30*
**** As of now because it has only been one day into July these numbers could change because of slower in test reporting****

- 340,620 Tests completed
- 10,293 positive cases
- Infection rate of 3%
- 402 Deaths (this number is accurate and not lagging because of testing)
- 1,007 Needed Hospitalization of those 287 needed ICU Beds (this number is accurate and will not change because of testing)
- 10% Hospitalization rate

So this will give you a clearer picture of what really is happening in MN. 
1. Infection rate is dropping.
2. Testing has almost gone up by 600% from April and almost double from May.
3. Hospitals stays are decreasing 
4. ICU numbers are decreasing 
5. Actual number of positive cases has decreased about 8,000 from the May numbers.
6. Hospitalization rates decreasing

Now I know some will state... well numbers lag for hospitals and what not... LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF POSITIVE CASES FOR THE MONTH... they are going down as well.

Now I dont agree with our Gov. Walz political platform. But he did good so far with this. he needs to now open back up some more and not fall for the "media BS".

Dont let the media lie to you. :beer:

All these numbers are on the MN DEPT OF HEALTH Website.
https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... html#hosp1


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## Chuck Smith

Here is some stuff about Texas ICU beds and what not...

https://www.khou.com/article/news/healt ... 01bfe5ff14

Is the media and others trying to drum up hysteria??? Again need to take everything seriously... but TX isn't as dire as the media is making it out to be. oke:


----------



## Chuck Smith

> The Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is essentially setting policy across the country, endlessly putting out a stream of so-called facts (that they then revise or rescind).
> 
> Their latest update on COVID-19, posted on Tuesday, is a real doozy. Here's what the CDC said in a section headlined: What do your results mean?
> 
> "A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. However, there is a chance a positive result means that you have antibodies from an infection with a virus from the same family of viruses (called coronaviruses), such as the one that causes the common cold."
> 
> That's right, because COVID-19 is a coronavirus (like the common cold), your positive test means you have COVID-19 (or the common cold).
> 
> Coronaviruses (CoV) - called that because they have spikes around a central ball that looks like the sun - are part of a large family of viruses that cause illness ranging from a cold to more severe diseases, including COVID-19 (caused by SARS-CoV-2), and others such as Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS-CoV) and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS-CoV).
> 
> SARS -CoV-2 is also known as a novel coronavirus (nCoV) because it is a new strain that has not been previously identified in humans.
> 
> Many of the symptoms from coronaviruses are similar: upper respiratory infection, fever, coughing, sneezing. While MERS and SARS can be serious - and SARS-CoV-2 as well, at least for the elderly and others with co-morbidities - most are treatable and nearly all people afflicted recover.
> 
> So why would the CDC equate COVID-19 with the common cold?
> 
> J.B. Neiman, a managing partner and general counsel of a Texas-based health care company that owns 13 free-standing clinics, has an idea. He told former New York Times reporter Alex Berenson, who has been on the forefront of covering the facts behind COVID-19, that the bottom line is money.
> 
> Neiman told Berenson he has "heard several stories of how discharge planners are being pressured to put Covid as primary diagnosis - as that pays significantly better. Hospitals want to avoid the discussion but if they don't they risk another shutdown. This may be an explanation for why there is a gap in hospital executives saying they have plenty of capacity and the increasing number of Covid hospitalizations. You open up your hospitals for normal medical care and you test everyone of those patients - the result is higher percentage of patients who have Covid - now."
> 
> The mainstream media is breathlessly reporting a spike in new infections (even though we're all wearing masks, so how'd that happen?).
> 
> But virtually no one is reporting that deaths from the virus are way down.
> 
> On June 27, there were 623 deaths attributed to COVID-19, according to OurWorldInData.com. Two days later, the death toll in the U.S. was 265.
> 
> By comparison, 4,928 people died in the U.S. on the peak day, April 16. Deaths have been declining steadily, at least until June 26, when the toll reached 2,437 (the website notes that "some states added probable deaths" on that date). The deaths rose again to 1,270 on Tuesday, but at least one COVID watchdog said there was again a reason for that rise.
> 
> "That 'spike' yesterday includes more than 600 backdated NYC cases, most from three weeks or more ago. In reality deaths dropped again week over week (about 25%)," Berenson wrote on Twitter.


https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... -cdc-says/

Take this with a grain of salt. Because it came from a right leaning website. But it is coming out more and more about how the cases are getting "inflated" by hospitals because of $$$. Like I stated earlier... when the Mayo Clinic system shut down for about 2 months and only seeing COVID or emergency type cases they estimated they lost about $1 billion in revenue. They asked employees to take pay cuts for those months and what not. You dont think they will try to make that $1 billion back some how..... oke:

And people think that health insurance prices rise because the insurance company just makes stuff up. They have to go with what they get charged by hospitals in-order to justify those increases to a FEDERAL INSURANCE COMMISSION. So like I always say.... if you want to lower the cost of health insurance you need to look at why are costs for care and doing the business of health care so high? Why do hospitals need a staff of 20 people who only "maintain" wheel chairs for the hospital? How can a hospital "lose" 2000 wheel chairs to hotels and surrounding businesses. YES THIS IS A FACT I HEARD... because of COVID they had to track down all these wheel chairs for patients. But the kicker is that the hospital had just ordered 2500 new ones as well. Interesting the waste that goes on.... BTW.. .you know who pays for those.... YOUR INSURANCE!!!

I will get off my soap box about this.... but interesting the things coming to light with COVID. oke:


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## dakotashooter2

I'm somewhat curious as to why they will tell us how many new cases there are and how many have died, but they never tell us how many are actually hospitalized. It seems that the number hospitalized would be a significant factor in how much of a threat the virus is. Death rate is equal to or slightly higher than the flu, it appears to be more contagious but if hospitalization rate is the same or even a point or 2 higher than the flu what is all the concern about. Is it possible THAT is why they are not providing that info? Because it would demonstrate it is not as dangerous as they are making it out to be and pull the rug from under their crisis?


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## Chuck Smith

Dakota...

I agree that you are only hear about a portion of things. You are not hearing about how many are tested, you are not hearing about "recovery" rates, you are not hearing about infection rates, etc. You are only hearing.... NEW CASES and Deaths. WHich again is two serious numbers we need to know about.

As you can tell I am trying to take all of the data when I post things about MN. It is harder to find that data in other states. I have tried and really don't have that much time on my hand.

But if you want to talk non islolation rate.... when I have been posting it. I have been inaccurate. I apologize. I looked at it today and read some "fine" print. In the recovery or "doesn't need isolation" numbers on the MN DEPT OF HEALTH website. it isn't adding in the number of deaths. So the doesn't need isolation rates are higher. They are more like 90% not the 85-88% like I have been posting.

I also dug a little deeper on the death rates.

**** AGAIN I AM NOT MAKING LIGHT OF DEATH OR THIS FLU*****

In MN the people who have died 62% have been over 80 years old. 19% of the deaths are in the age of 70-79 bracket. So 81% of the 1458 deaths in MN are people 70+ years of age. Again I am not trying to make light of this situation. I have many family members in that age group. But to shed some light on the subject... the average life expectance of someone in MN is 81 years old. In the USA it is 79 years old. I want to say it again... I am not making light of this at all and don't want any deaths. But people are not talking about these numbers. Also a healthy 80 year old with no complications or any medical history can live who knows how long. But just stating facts that people don't talk about with COVID. I mean what I just stated pretty much pin points the group of people who need to take precautions, have family members take precautions, who we should focus on prevention/protection, etc.

Now if you want me to break it down even more.... of the 4160 cases of people over 70.... 1182 have died. So you have a 72% recovery rate. How does that stack up against the regular FLU? I dont know.

To break all of this down even further.... of the 1458 deaths in MN.... 1143 have come from assisted living or nursing care type facilities!!! They dont break down the age groups of this. I wish they did so we can get even a more accurate assessment of things. Because if 1100 of the age group of 70+ like I mentioned above was in a care facility... it would really show you the numbers and who needs protection. Also if 3500 cases in that age group came from a care facility as well would again show you who needs the protection! But we will never know those numbers until people stop making it political. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

https://twitter.com/NicoleArbour/status ... 7883514880

Please watch this video on what is happening in Texas. I hope this isn't true... .but this lady shows you the "new guidlines" and what not that is going on. uke:


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... rview.html

Now this is from the CDC...



> *A positive test result shows you may have antibodies from an infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. However, there is a chance a positive result means that you have antibodies from an infection with a virus from the same family of viruses (called coronaviruses), such as the one that causes the common cold.*


So some of the positive antibody tests are because people have had the common cold. This is just showing everyone that the "new cases" are not 100% correct.


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## Plainsman

Our media and the left are at war with the republic.


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## Chuck Smith

Elon Musk is questioning the "numbers" getting reported.

Granted this is from OAN.... but even some professer's are questioning all of the numbers as well. That list of Doctors and professers is getting longer and longer.


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## Chuck Smith

MN update....

423 New cases.... but 14657 new tests.... so about a 2.9% infection rate. The overall rate from the whole data period went from 5.9% to 5.8%. There was 8 new deaths.... 7 from assisted care facilities.

ICU beds is at 132 a +9 from yesterday. Hospitalizations are at 138 a -13 from the day before.

Next week i will redo my totals for the month of June to make them more accurate and give a 3 month review again like I did earlier. So people have a clear picture of what is going on.


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## KEN W

The whole problem is that most of the US population is so self centered they can't be bothered by common sense or facts if they think it has a miniscule chance of violating their rights. Their rights out weigh common sense, morals, compassion, consideration, others rights to safety and life.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> The whole problem is that most of the US population is so self centered they can't be bothered by common sense or facts if they think it has a miniscule chance of violating their rights. Their rights out weigh common sense, morals, compassion, consideration, others rights to safety and life.


 Chuck has been posting many facts. I have posted a combination of facts and personal mistrust of the left. Its clear the left is lying to us.


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## KEN W

And Trump doesn't lie??? He wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit him. You cannot accuse the left about lying w/o admitting that Trump and the GOP Right are just as much liars.

A little different topic.....but still related Covid-19

The NFL is trying to come up with a way to play football. They are really struggling to figure out how.

The NFL is just following the White House's lead. You know, do nothing, give Incorrect or no direction, and pretend like nothing is wrong in hopes that it will all magically go away. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Owners, GM's, and coaches not to mention players will not want to meet until this virus is gone. Fans won't even go to the games unless you live in Florida, Texas or Arizona where they obviously don't care.......numbers don't lie.


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## Plainsman

> ...numbers don't lie.


 Tell that to a statistician and try to stop him from laughing hysterically. Theyike polls are easily manipulated. On another site Im on a fellow talks about his brother in Florida who tested positive. After a couple weeks he tested negative, but they count him as active if he doesnt test negative again in we 24 and 48 hours.

The NFL is going to start their games with the black anthem. I predict they will suffer for it.


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## KEN W

Plainsman said:


> .The NFL is going to start their games with the black anthem. I predict they will suffer for it.
Click to expand...

Yes I saw that......who's next?......Native Americans doing their drums and dancing?.....Spanish Americans singing in Spanish. NFL needs to get a backbone. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .The NFL is going to start their games with the black anthem. I predict they will suffer for it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes I saw that......who's next?......Native Americans doing their drums and dancing?.....Spanish Americans singing in Spanish. NFL needs to get a backbone. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
Click to expand...

My thoughts too Ken. Since all are American there is no racism in our national anthem. Actually since we are all American our anthem should have a unifying affect. It would appear someone has an agenda of division.

I think some people want to be offended by our national anthem, and many other things because they derive some sort of personal advantage from it. For example I understand Kaepernick is a poor football player, but if he takes a knee and calls America racist many will rush to appease him. So unlike Martin Luther Kings standards Kaepernick gets a football contract for the color of his skin and not his ability.



> And Trump doesn't lie??


 I forgot to comment on this. I have a biblical world view and the reality is all people are liars. Even though I often think as others the truth is there are no little lies or white lies, there are only lies. Trump I think lied about Stormy Daniels for his reasons and Hillary lied about Benghazi. They are both liars, but thier lies were designed to hide deeds. We see the lies differntly in our world view because we see one deed more aggregiouse than the other.


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## KEN W

The gulf between reality and President Donald Trump's delusional vision of a waning coronavirus threat was on full display this weekend, as cases soared in key hotspots while he delivered speeches at Mount Rushmore and at the White House, with little physical distancing and few masks, directly contradicting the advice from his public health experts.

Republicans deserted Trump on the issue of facial coverings -- with many urging Americans to wear masks over the past week -- they have been mostly silent about Trump's effort to deceive the public about the risks the virus poses.


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## Chuck Smith

> The whole problem is that most of the US population is so self centered they can't be bothered by common sense or facts if they think it has a miniscule chance of violating their rights. Their rights out weigh common sense, morals, compassion, consideration, others rights to safety and life.


This is so accurate it isn't even funny. This goes for all "political" SJW's.... this is on all sides of the political spectrum. People think it is a right to not wear a mask and then go barge into a store where they are "requiring" masks. They forget the same "right" they are kicking and screaming about is the same "right" as the store owners. :thumb:

Same goes for the people who protest... it is their right to protest. But it is also someone else's right to protest or speak about the other side of the coin. You cant have it one way. We all know the KKK are idiots and what not.... but they have a right to protest and speak. Just like BLM, ANTIFA, etc. But when it crosses the line of attacks, threatening, riots, throwing stuff, breaking laws, etc.... then it isn't "freedom" of speech anymore it is breaking laws.



> The gulf between reality and President Donald Trump's delusional vision of a waning coronavirus threat was on full display this weekend, as cases soared in key hotspots while he delivered speeches at Mount Rushmore and at the White House, with little physical distancing and few masks, directly contradicting the advice from his public health experts.


Now this issue is another stupid one all around.

1. Trump should wear a mask when he walks up to the mic and then when he is done giving his speech. It would just show solidarity for the whole country. Even though we know the facts about masks.

2. The people screaming "social distancing".... are the same ones that said the riots, protests, etc are bigger than social distancing. So again... you can't have it one way. You need to speak out about both of it in the same light. Both were bad for the "Covid" situation. Denounce all of them if you have the backbone. :bop:

3. BTW... his speech at Mt. Rushmore...was really good. He talked about all the HERO's of the USA. He went down the line in history and talked about how he wants to start the park with all the monuments for these hero's. It was really good. BUT guess what... the media twisted it into lies.... uke:



> The NFL is trying to come up with a way to play football. They are really struggling to figure out how.


OK... i have a little more "insight" into this topic. I have a brother who works for MLB and has many associates in other professional sports. Anyways.... all of this with the NFL and other sports is about $$$. It is about how to get fans in the stands safely. It is only about 10% about the players safety. The players want to be safe but they also want a pay check. Just like everything this virus is that there isn't "clauses" in contracts for the players. There isn't a "goverment shutdown" clause. So guess what... the owners could say FU to the players and not pay them if they wanted too. Now we know that wouldn't happen because the next year... all those players would hold out and possible law suits for player unions. But in theory they could. But owners want to make money. empty stadiums is not making them money. The NFL wants MLB to get going so they can use what they do good or bad as a template on moving forward. The players did get a good wish... the cancelled "preseason"...

Plus look how huge the NFL is.... and myself as a hunter... we need it or our swamps, woods, fields, etc will be packed with people. If you think ND has a NR invasion now... if no NFL, HS, NCAA football or sports this year.... LOOK OUT :bop: :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

So more numbers for MN....

This is from 7/4. 519 new cases with 14452 tests... that is a 3.6% infection rate.... 5 deaths... all from assisted living facilities. The OVERALL rate is at a 5.7%... so still trending down.

ICU Beds are 132 and other hospitalized is 121.... so again the trend is doing down or staying the same.

Now I heard on the radio over the weekend someone talking (I cant remember who)... but hey made a great point.

People keep talking about Asymptomatic people walking around.... well those are the people getting tested now. They can finally go in and get tested. So we are now finding out all of these. yes it is the younger people because before if you couldn't get tested unless you showed certain symptoms. So we will see the rise.... but what we really need to focus on is the hospitals and ICU's. Also if we get accurate and fair reporting.... we need to know the antibody testing numbers. Which many states are not reporting those. Because remember a positive "antibody" test result does mean a you had it sometime but are now cleared and wont spread it. See that is a major factor in what we need to know to move forward. This guy was speaking like I have all along. Take it seriously but dont believe all the hype from anyone (dem's, republicans, media, etc). They also had a scientist on stating that the COVID wont be "over" until over 60% of the population gets it. We are at 10% right now. To gain "herd" immunity is +60% is needed. So the scientist said we have a long ways to go. The scientist also said we dont need to "shut" down things. He stated like the other speaker that we need more accurate info and let people make the decision for themselves if they want to venture out. :bop:

BTW... on a side note... I am thinking I need to get the virus...because someone told me they are paying up to $800 for people to donate plasma. You can also donate up to 2 times a week. Think of the toys I could buy... LOL


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## Canuck

Chuck Smith said:


> Think of the toys I could buy... LOL


Or the organs you could donate! :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

> Or the organs you could donate! :bop:


I am an organ donor... oke: :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

Numbers for MN today... 7/6

434 new cases. 3 deaths.... 1 death was from an assisted living facility. They had 5677 tests done. So an increase to about 7.6% rate... we need to keep an eye on this. But small testing pool and need to make sure the cases stay in those numbers or lower and the testing gets back in the 10,000+ a day. ICU beds 125 and Hospitalizations 133. So still very good numbers. These are people who are in these beds... not indicated from the 434. It is people who are in beds because of covid... they could have been there for 3 weeks or 1 day. We dont know those stats.

We are at a total infection rate for the whole time period of 5.7%.... so staying steady.

No longer needing isolation rate..... 88%.


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## Plainsman

I will play it safe, but I have come to the conclusion that whatever the media tells us the opposite is very likely true. They loved the one source they could find that said Hydrochloroquine sp? didn't work, but now that we know it does you hear nothing from them. They praise Cuomo, but don't cover the story about him sending infected people to nursing homes. I also don't believe there is a spike. They intentionally want to damage the economy and force mail in voting. There needs to be some kind of repercussions for damaging the nation to further their agenda. They are not news.


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## Canuck

The USA is getting close to being in dire straits due to it's lousy response to the Covid-19 virus.

The infection rate across the country has gotten high enough that contact tracing will not be successful in helping to stop the spread. The country is hampered by leadership that is not taking the situation seriously and is politicizing the virus in an attempt to divide people and win an election. Very strange leadership when you consider the fact that this is a world-wide issue. We are all in this together. Except for the USA it is going its own way. Freedom. No one is going to tell you people to wear a mask or socially isolate. No one!!!! And yet you all listen to a guy who is only looking out for his own interests at the expense of your lives and ultimately, your economy, which will be hit even harder than it is now when this all catches up to you.

Trump keeps repeating lies about the USA is the best at testing, has the lowest death rate in the world and is held up by the world as a shining example. Such bull wad. And you all believe him. No one in his inner circle or the Republican Party has the guts to question him or even comment negatively in any way about him. Bunch of whimpering, feckless, lap dog yes men.

Wake up and join the rest of the world in working to overcome this disease.


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## Plainsman

This morning the CDC says Covid19 on verg of no longer being epidemic status.
Also I was watching a video my wife was playing on her facebook account. It was a doctor that is also a Minnesota senator. He has complaints against him for spreading dangerouse recommendations. He doesnt get to know his accusers, but it appears political. He followed CDC, and Minnesota dept of Health directives in assigning Covid29 deaths, but that wasnt good enough for some activists that want inflated numbers.

This also is falling apart so now we have a book by Trumps niece trashing him, and a book by a past confidant of Melanias trashing her. Im sure they were paid well to throw the Trumps under the buss. This has reached a point where everyone should be able to see this is simply the democrat party in panic mode. Panic because if Trump wins the America they hate may survive another ten years and their dream of a communist America will have to wait.

Enough of this liberal scare tactics its off to the mountains for me. We took our small travel trailer to the Badlands a couple weeks ago. Easy to have social distancing in canpgrounds.


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## dakotashooter2

> Trump keeps repeating lies about the USA is the best at testing, has the lowest death rate in the world and is held up by the world as a shining example. Such bull wad. And you all believe him. No one in his inner circle or the Republican Party has the guts to question him or even comment negatively in any way about him. Bunch of whimpering, feckless, lap dog yes men.


So you DONT want a POTUS that instills hope on the people. You want one that projects doom and gloom. The truth is, most people can't handle the truth. People made a run on TOILET PAPER can you imagine the panic what would have happened if this would have been a pandemic with a 25 or 30% death rate?

I'm not gonna deny Trump is a Blowhard. But as a rule he knows how to get things accomplished. Unfortunately our government has a way of getting in it's own way most of the time. I don't think we would have wanted Hillary handling this.


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## Chuck Smith

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/full ... r-covid-19

According to the graph above. The US has done 34 Million tests for Covid 19. The next closest country is India with 10 million.

So of course we will have more cases. But is that data correct???

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... index.html

This is from the CDC and it states the USA as of june 27th has done 19,789,038 tests. So if the first graph is correct... that means the USA has done since June 27.... that is 9 days ago... done another 15 million tests??? If that is the case... if shows again why we would be seeing a "spike" in cases. But we need to know is the infection rate going higher? Which we are not getting accurate info. You would think the WHO would want to show a world "infection" rate.

The infection rate as of June 27 (is what the data table I found) says the USA is at a 9.7% infection rate.

I looked at the WHO and they wont give you an "infection rate". They wont even give you a total of tests done in the world.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Interesting facts from the link above....

99% of the world infections are considered "Mild". They dont go into detail saying what this is but they say it is MILD... again someones mild salsa is someone elses burning the throat. Also 93% of the recovered cases people have been discharged with a death rate of 7%. Again no death is good but shows you that more people are recovering than dying.

It is also showing that even though "case" numbers across the globe are going up. The death numbers are going down. Which means we are finding better ways to hand the virus.

I still havent be able to find TOTAL TESTING NUMBERS FOR THE WORLD. Also Havent found what the current rate of infection is for the world.

I remember in the start the infection rate was about 10% and death rate around 5% in the early stages. But I am not 100% correct on that. If someone finds them please post what the world infection rate is (minus usa). Also if they can find total tests done world wide. We also need to know what the world rate of antibody testing is doing? Same goes for the USA antibody tests or positive tests. Because if the world isn't doing antibody testing or the rate of testing for antibodies is less than the USA by 50% that is another reason why the USA has a "spike" in cases. You see we need more info and we are not getting it. :bop: oke:


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## Chuck Smith

> So you DONT want a POTUS that instills hope on the people. You want one that projects doom and gloom. The truth is, most people can't handle the truth. People made a run on TOILET PAPER can you imagine the panic what would have happened if this would have been a pandemic with a 25 or 30% death rate?
> 
> I'm not gonna deny Trump is a Blowhard. But as a rule he knows how to get things accomplished. Unfortunately our government has a way of getting in it's own way most of the time. I don't think we would have wanted Hillary handling this.


I have made comments on this before. Lets make a sports reference here.... Would you want a coach give a pregame speech saying... YEP WE SUCK AND WE ARE ALL SCREWED..... then come in at halftime and say... YEP WE ARE STILL SCREWED LETS JUST TRY AND NOT GET HURT.....then at the end of the game say... YEP TOLD YOU WE SUCK AND WE MIGHT AS WELL NOT TRY TO GET BETTER BECAUSE WE SUCK..... no you dont. A good leader is always trying to be positive and move forward in the best possible light.

Also if you dont think the media is the problem. I watched the press briefing last night.... 10 different reporters asked the same question about the confederate flag/NASCAR and Bubba Wallace. Yes they kept repeating the same thing over and over. Yet they didn't ask about COVID, the deaths of children over the weekend, job numbers, possible shut downs in certain states, another shooting death by police, Epstiens friend getting arrested, etc. They only focused and asked about a tweet of Trumps about NASCAR/Confederate flag and Bubba Wallace.

So who is really trying to get facts out there for the public.... not the media. :thumb:

I honestly dont know who is worse for this country.... the far radical left... or the media. And yes I am also pointing at fox news on this one as well.... they are not always 100% truthful and accurate either. :bop:


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## Canuck

I would want the coach to tell me like it is. Let that sink in for a second. Then tell me exactly what we need to do to win and how we are going to do it.

Trump is more like your example of how not to do it.


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## Plainsman

> I honestly dont know who is worse for this country.... the far radical left... or the media. And yes I am also pointing at fox news on this one as well.... they are not always 100% truthful and accurate either.


 :thumb: The radical left and the media are two cups of poison from the same bottle.


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## Chuck Smith

> I would want the coach to tell me like it is. Let that sink in for a second. Then tell me exactly what we need to do to win and how we are going to do it.


So when he talks about the four phases to open up, the production of ventilators, the production of masks, the advancement in testing and amount of testing, the fact that deaths are going down, the cutting of red tape of getting a vaccine, etc. Isn't that a coach saying how it is and giving a plan???


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## Chuck Smith

https://twitter.com/drscottjensen

Got to this guys twitter page... watch his two videos. This is a Doctor and Senator in the state of MN. He talks about the mis-information and also how this is all getting politicized. Also talks about wrong facts and numbers being reported. It is sad.

Covid numbers today from MN...

569 cases with only 5936 tests.... an infection rate of 9.5%.....not good but we will see because we need to get testing back in the 10,000s. But something to keep an eye on. 3 deaths from private residences. Two in the 50's, 1 in 70's range.

ICU beds 121 and other hospitalized is 146. So still great numbers. Still at an over all 5.7% infection rate and a 87.8% recovery rate. Death rate is at 3.77% so still staying the same. Tomorrow I will revise my numbers for June and post that whole thread showing April, May, June numbers for covid so everyone can see the trend. This has given over a week for the numbers to come in for the last week of June. So more accurate reporting. Because with the 569 cases I just talked about... some could have been for JUNE.

***** Also remember what happened the begining of June and until about mid June... protests! I wish they would post if these new cases coming in are people who protested or not. Just because if they are not from the protesters it shows that this wasn't a cause. Or SOCIAL GATHERING was not the cause. It could have been from people going to bars... or some other contact. We need to know where people are getting it to address how to prevent it. This wasn't a knock on the protests. Just a knock on the BS of not truly getting to the bottom of how, when, where things are getting transmitted. Is it from family gatherings, social events, sporting events, bars, restaurants, funerals, protests, going to the grocery store, etc.


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## Plainsman

A doctor from Texas says their ICU is 90% full. However only 15% are covid patients. Hospitals are much more busy because people are coming in with other problems they have put off. Also patients are now coming in for elective surgeries. Morr lies from the left. Unfortunately the haters want to believe it.


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## Chuck Smith

> A doctor from Texas says their ICU is 90% full. However only 15% are covid patients. Hospitals are much more busy because people are coming in with other problems they have put off. Also patients are now coming in for elective surgeries. Morr lies from the left. Unfortunately the haters want to believe it.


I wouldn't call it "lies from the left".... I would just call it lies or MEDIA HALF TRUTHS and not giving the people a complete picture of what really is going on.

It is 100% accurate that people are now having the surgeries that were put off for 3 months. Some of them require a night stay and even ICU care afterwards or they are in ICU beds.

Now we don't want to be "over burdened" and have full ICU when or if people with COVID need attention. But like other articles I have posted... The hospitals are ready if that happens and could and will cancel elective surgeries again. We need to see the data on how ICU numbers are on average per month before COVID. If they can run at 90% ICU occupancy... then they are right in line now.

Again... Like I have stated... is it the MEDIA or Radical Lefts/Rights more of the problem... I think people know who I say is... MEDIA.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coron ... d=msedgntp

Article today.... AGAIN THEY ARE NOT GIVING US ENOUGH INFO....



> Arizona reported 354 new cases per 100,000 population in the past week, compared to a national average of 100 per 100,000.


HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE IN THE TESTING SAMPLE??? Because with the data above it is showing that only .1% of the USA population or infection rate for 100,0000 for the USA. While AZ is at a .354% infection rate. Yes less than half a percent infection rate. That is what these numbers are saying..... IT ISN"T THE INFO WE NEED. We need how many were in this sample of new cases. Because if AZ has 354 cases out of 400 test sample... that is a whole heck of alot worse. If AZ had 354 cases out of 200,000 samples it isnt that bad. YOu see why we need to know testing/case samples. Not per POPULATION. :bop:

I hope people can see how so much misinformation is out there on the virus when we don't get accurate or consistent reporting. Because from the data in this article.... why would we be concerned about .1% of the population.... it would mean we should open all the way back up, no masks, etc. Yes that means 99.9% of the population of the USA wont get infected or are not infected. I hope now people see the issue what I am talking about in reporting of all of this.


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## Chuck Smith

> April 1 - April 30
> 
> - 59,627 Tests done
> - 7,182 positive cases
> - 12% infection rate
> - 331 Deaths
> - 932 Needed Hospitalization of those 326 in ICU Beds
> - 13% Hospitalization rate
> 
> May 1 - May 31
> 
> - 195,008 tests completed
> - 18,267 positive cases
> - 9.4% infection rate
> - 696 Deaths
> - 2003 Needed Hospitalization of those 613 needed ICU Beds
> - 11% Hospitalization rate
> 
> June 1 - June 30
> **** As of now because it has only been one day into July these numbers could change because of slower in test reporting****
> 
> - 340,620 Tests completed
> - 10,293 positive cases
> - Infection rate of 3%
> - 402 Deaths (this number is accurate and not lagging because of testing)
> - 1,007 Needed Hospitalization of those 287 needed ICU Beds (this number is accurate and will not change because of testing)
> - 10% Hospitalization rate


So some of the numbers have changed.... even back in April... .which is interesting... But here are the new numbers.

*April 1 - April 30*

- 59,629 Tests completed
- 7,240 positive cases
- infection rate of 12.14%

*May 1 - May 31*

- 201,896 Tests completed
- 18,268 positive cases
- infection rate of 9.04%

*June 1 - June 30*

- 333,542 tests completed (yes this went down some how??)
- 11,616 positive cases
- infection rate of 3.48%

The rest of the data all stayed the same from what is quoted from my earlier post.

Now lets dig deeper. 58 new cases in April that just got reported... 1 for May... and 1323 for June. That is a total of 1382. Since I looked at the data on July 1 (that was the earlier post) In 7 days of reporting there are a total of 1691 "new cases" of those 1382 came before July 1... or are in the months of April, May, and June. So when I give the daily updates of "new" cases... some of them could be from previous months. This is why I wanted to do monthly totals. Look how in 7 days 58 new cases were in APRIL!!! I understand June but APRIL!! So is this same thing happening in other states?

Also it is disturbing that June cases in a week rose 1323. This is things we need to keep a look at. But again... what happened in June. :bop:

Also it is strange how testing only went up by 2 yet cases went up by 58 in the month of April??? Granted I know about the retesting or false positives and what not. But it is just interesting. Also with the amount of testing decreased in June by that much.... 7000+ tests disappeared. Or were they all counted twice? No clue.

But those are the numbers for the monthly totals.

Now for the daily totals.....

463 New cases with 8 Deaths... 5 of those deaths are from Assisted care facilities. 7,636 new tests completed. Infection rate of 6.06%. Total infection rate for the whole time period is 5.71% Death Rate is 3.75%.

ICU beds are at 122 and other hospitalizations is at 143. So those numbers are good or staying stable. :thumb:

We in the state of MN need to get the testing back up in the 10,000's to keep an accurate assessment on this whole situation. Granted we had a holiday weekend in there and this is the time of year people "go up north" for a week. So a few things to keep an eye on..... the increase/decrease in cases.... increase/decrease in actual tests being processed. We also need to see if the month of June keeps changing in the data.... ie: more cases, more testing, etc. :bop: But so far the trend is still good for MN.


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## Chuck Smith

Well just read this on Twitter and dont know if it is true or not.

But a Doctor stated this.... if you personally take 3 tests for Covid and it is positive all three times... is this 1 positive test case or 3 positive test cases?

I dont know how the cases or "positive" tests are getting reported. This is something we need to know. Because if this is true then the numbers could shift as well.

Again.. what I am saying is there is no uniformed way things are getting reported across the whole country. One state could be doing it differently than another. From Hospital to hospital it could be different. We need a uniformed way to report things. I will blame Trump or this administration if they dont have a set standard and if that standard isn't getting met. It is on them to enforce it.


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## Canuck

Does it matter?

If you test that often hopefully you are learning something about the *Novel* Covid-19 Virus.
If you test someone ten times and they die it is only one death not ten.

Who cares about the numbers? Not the test but the number of tests, because if you test you are going to create cases. that are 99% harmless. Someone who is concerned about the number of cases making him "look bad and that's not fair"?

Why worry anymore? After all "you are in a good place" and should send all your kids back to school in August or "I will cut your funding".

Does it matter that some of the ICU beds have patients, other than Covid patients in them? They are still full if they are full. Stressing the health care system is the important issue at that point in time.

In Canada, I read that patients with underlying issues who die with Covid, or from Covid, are all listed as Covid deaths, for now. That seems to be a statistic that is an issue with your health care system (funding? rules? insurance rules? payments?) and people seem to want to downplay the number for some reason. So if Canada counts people who die with Covid and are obese as a Covid death then you should be able to compare Canada' numbers with the USA's if you fear your system is doing just that,

That said, of Canadians polled yesterday almost 80% want the border to remain closed until the end of August. Of those, some wanted the border to stay closed to unessential crossings for the rest of the year.

No matter how you personally look at it are you confident that you are in a good place? Canada is doing better and the number of people who want more restriction is climbing as small number of cases are generated through people not distancing or wearing masks at bars and beaches. Canada was doing quite well but we are slipping a wee bit,


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## Canuck

Does it matter?

If you test that often hopefully you are learning something about the *Novel* Covid-19 Virus.
If you test someone ten times and they die it is only one death not ten.

Who cares about the numbers? Not the test itself but the number of tests done, because "if you test you are going to create cases, that are 99% harmless"? Someone who is concerned about the number of cases making him "look bad and that's not fair"?

Why worry anymore? After all "you are in a good place" and should send all your kids back to school in August or "I will cut your funding".

Does it matter that some of the ICU beds have patients, other than Covid patients in them? They are still full if they are full. The stressing the health care system is what is important issue at that point in time.

In Canada, I read that patients with underlying issues who die with Covid, or from Covid, are all listed as Covid deaths, for now. That seems to be a statistic that is an issue with your health care system (funding? rules? insurance rules? payments?) and people seem to want to downplay the number for some reason. So if Canada counts people who die with Covid and are obese as a Covid death then you should be able to compare Canada' numbers with the USA's if you fear your system is doing just that,

That said, of Canadians polled yesterday almost 80% want the border to remain closed until the end of August. Of those, some wanted the border to stay closed to unessential crossings for the rest of the year.

No matter how you personally look at it are you confident that you are in a good place? Canada is doing better and the number of people who want more restriction is climbing as small number of cases are generated through people not distancing or wearing masks at bars and beaches. Canada was doing quite well but we are slipping a wee bit,


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## Plainsman

> Who cares about the numbers?


 I do because as chuck asks if a person tests poitive three times is that one reported corvid or three. I think our liberl media would say three.



> If you test someone ten times and they die it is only one death not ten.


 Well if you want to scare people into mail in votes you count ten.



> Does it matter that some of the ICU beds have patients, other than Covid patients in them?


 Yes because the media insinuates its all corvid when in Florida. Texas, and Arizona only 15% are corvid.



> That said, of Canadians polled yesterday almost 80% want the border to remain closed until the end of August.


 You should play it safe and make it August 2025.


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## Canuck

> You should play it safe and make it August 2025.


What no wink thingie or beer mug?
I did not mean to touch a nerve or anything.
Forget what the media and the President say to you.
If your local ICUs are filled now, in two more weeks they may be overflowing.
Depends on what is actually happening in your medical bubble and your community.
In the places where beds are full (for whatever reason, all heart conditions if you like) and the flow of new Covid victims (or even a trickle) can end poorly for those who don't get the level of care they need. 
This is happening here in a couple of locations in Canada even though the country is averaging less than 300 new cases per day with less than 30 deaths. Even that can cause your ICUs to have to triage to see who gets the ventilators.
Wear masks, wash hands, don't gather, etc. is all we have right now to fight the pandemic at the community level.
Here in Canada the Premier of Manitoba and the Premier of Alberta were seen in the Toronto airport not wearing masks and not distancing. They got hammered here by other politicians . In the USA politicians take flack for wearing masks in many circles it seems.
"Keep your stick on the ice. We are all in this together" Red Green :beer:


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## Plainsman

> I did not mean to touch a nerve or anything.


 Your right I should have put in a laughing icon or something, but I was laughing to hard to think of it. :thumb:

I see your point about triage.

I was driving and didnt get the whole story, but a European study says kids eith the disease are not a vector for older people. It didnt make sense to me and thats about all I got out of it. Maybe they simply meant they are not sneezing and coughing so dont fill the sir with virus.

I think many of us woukd agree, and 90% of America would take corvid seriouse if the media would simply shut their lying mouths. They have no credability with half the people of the United States. We need only look back at the lies during the attempted impeachment. Now many of us are inclined not yo take corvid seriouse because we know the media is hyping it. We also know that mail in voting means there is already a plan to cheat on the election. Put the two together and the media lies either subvert zn election or get people dead, maybe both.


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## Canuck

Here is an interesting article from Canada today.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...-health-experts-say/ar-BB16wm64?ocid=msedgdhp


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## Plainsman

Canuck I think that's the thinking in our conservative states down here.


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## Chuck Smith

Canauk....

To touch base on what plainsman stated.

The "number of cases" does matter. Because that is what is getting rammed down our throat with everyone wanting to make it political. You see the death totals are not rising. They are actually falling. The "total number of cases" is increasing. So that is what the media and elected leaders are harping on. It is also what they are basing decisions on as well. So if those numbers are not accurate... how can you make good decisions?? you cant. That is the issue.

The ICU and triage is important numbers. It is also important for the hospitals as well. Because the hospitals needed to get back to working some what normally or they would have gone bankrupt. Like I mentioned earlier when they shut everything down and prepared for COVID (which was good to a certain point) they were ready for the worse.... then it didn't happen... so they laid off workers, forloughed workers, cut workers pay to .75, cut hours, etc.... Now they are going back at almost 100% (in my area). Which is great. So when people lie about ICU numbers and talk like it is all COVID it is wrong and again... people are making decisions on these numbers and if they dont get the truth they make bad decision.

I am missing out on my fishing trip this year because of the border closing...and it is Canada's right to do so to protect its country.... and if they want the border closed until 2050... It is their decisions on what is best. :beer: But man I would sure miss my fishing trips... oke:


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## Canuck

Yes but the issue right now probably depends on the present infection rate.
If it is low the risks are probably much less as well.
If a lot of people are infected the thing blows up into a real hotspot that over runs local infrastructure.
A lot of people whose time is not yet up could get the short end of the stick. Sorry you have diabetes or high blood pressure so that guy who is five years younger than you gets the ventilator.
You have to get the numbers down to a flat baseline for the strategy to work. We have to learn to live with this virus if it can not be eradicated. If we can learn to live with Covid we will be better prepared to survive the next one coming down the pipe.

Edit: Chuck I will miss pheasant hunting as well.


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## Plainsman

> You have to get the numbers down to a flat baseline for the strategy to work.


 Yes and if the lie about the numbers you don't know when you reach a flat baseline. Are we there now? Did we reach it a month ago? If not can we predict when they will get there. The truth would help, but we are purposely deceived. If you question the deception ask yourself why would the media say there is a spike in Texas and the ICU is nearly over run. Then a doctor who supposedly has the health of people first and foremost says no the numbers are reported wrong and only 15% of the ICU are corvid patients. Now the media never said the ICU was all corvid patients, but they start with news of a spike and then tell of the crowded ICU which means they tried to imply it without actually saying it. Either way it was reported deceptively. Now ask yourself for what reason.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck....

I know exactly what you are saying about getting over whelmed and what not. That is why we need accurate reporting and that isn't happening is the issue. Then you have the media (YES THIS IS AT FOX TOO) that are not reporting facts or accurate info.

Lets just take into account what I mentioned about the 3 tests and 3 positives with the same person. If you have 100 people tested a week...the people you test and you get the infection rate is ACTUALLY 7%... so 7 people are tested positive in the first week. Then week two comes along and you test those first 7 again to see if they are clear and then test 93 more to get you sample of 100. Well it is again a 7% rate for the 93.... so rounding up it is another 7 people. So is that 14 NEW cases this week or just another 7? The media and how it is getting reported by some is that now week two there is 14 NEW CASES... so people think there is 21 cases in two weeks.... when it is actually only 14. Now you keep going down the line for the next week... so you need to only test 86 new people... with the 14 previous getting tested to make sure they are good or bad... well... 7% rate again... is 6 new people....plus the 14... so 20 cases over that week...BUT ONLY 6 NEW ONES.... so the rate of infection is only still 7%... But someone will report.... 20 NEW CASES OUT OF 100 TESTED.... 20% infection rate. WHich is a lie!!! Or they will say... infection rate skyrocketed!!! Or 20 NEW CASES... so CASES ARE JUMPING/SKY ROCKETING... when infact they are still at a 7% infection rate. The recovery rate is the one thing that isn't getting better because it took 3 weeks. BTW... isn't the recovery or not needing "isolation" two weeks on average???

So is that why were are seeing a wavy type thing with numbers? Is it because of the reporting? I am not sure... just something to think about or ask to see if we can get accurate numbers. Like I showed for the MN monthly numbers.... look how in the month of april only 1 more tests was "done" or processed but it went up 58 cases???? From the week apart I took the numbers.... That is weird if you ask me. Now the June numbers... I understand we wont know them fore sure until Sept. :bop:

I hope you see what I mean about how the reporting of numbers needs to be consistent to make decisions. Just like the ICU's could easily cut back on its other stuff to fit or fill up with COVID if the COVID patients need the beds. Again we as a society are not getting accurate info and are being lied to by media, elected officials, etc. We dont know what is the truth anymore. Again this isn't a knock on one political party to the other.... or one news source over the other. We have been lied to for years by all of them.


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## Chuck Smith

> Now the media never said the ICU was all corvid patients, but they start with news of a spike and then tell of the crowded ICU which means they tried to imply it without actually saying it. Either way it was reported deceptively. Now ask yourself for what reason.


This is exactly it.... and hate to say it is why Trump won the first time. We were sick of being lied too. Is why he got the nod from the Republicans... he beat out career politicians who people were sick of. And yes I know some will say he is lying to the people as well. They all lie and we are all sick of it!!! Like I stated earlier.... I think the media is worse than Pelosi. :eyeroll:

Now with some of the stuff people want to do....

1. Mail in voting
2. Proxy voting
3. early vote counting
4. LATE vote counting

Why are they pushing for this... Again I am not going to say this as one side of the spectrum or the other. But it is proven mail in voting creates voter fraud. They caught a postmaster dumping/throwing away ballots for the primaries.... they found that people were getting "ballots" for people who haven't lived in a home for over a year... so if that house should have only had 2 voters they were getting 4. Plus you dont have to prove who you are at all with mail in voting.

Now before anyone goes off on "Absentee" ballots. That is a totally different animal. You need to request those and prove who you are. Yes they can get lost in the mail... but you request again..... plus I believe those are also certified mail... so you need signatures to get them. But not 100% sure.

Then the "Proxy" voting that is happening now. Again I am not saying this towards one political party or another.... But how are you getting represented by your elected officials if they are not actually doing the voting??? They are giving their votes to others. How is ND getting represented if they let SD congressmen/women vote for them??? THEY ARE NOT. That is the issue with proxy voting.

The early/late counting of votes..... The early vote counting could make it say.... WHY SHOULD I EVEN GO VOTE... because the outcome is reached. This is why I hate the early reporting... Because CA polls are still open when the East Coast is yelling who has won or hasnt won. That to me is an issue.... some people might not go vote or it could create voter fraud.... especially with mail in voting. This is with any party. Then the late counting.... well this should be a no brainer..... oh we just found 100,000 votes all of a sudden. Again.. think about what could happen with mail in votes this way.


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## Chuck Smith

Now to touch on the CDC SCHOOL GUIDLINES.... They are not practical for 90% of the schools out there. That is why the issue is with Trump.... Lets look at an article posted about them back in may.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-r ... r-BB14nYxI



> The CDC divides the risk of reopening into three categories: low, more and highest. Low risk is limited to virtual-only activities. More risk includes small, in-person classes where students stay grouped together and 6 feet apart. The highest risk looks more like classrooms pre-pandemic -- full-sized, in-person and with no spacing.


So three choices if you are in low/medium/high risk. BTW... everyone teachers, students, parents, doctors, etc all stated that virtual learning was a joke and actually harmed more than it did good. Also with the "VISA" issue and students in college. You cant get a Visa from the University of Phenoix so why should Harvard be allowed to teach "virtually" and still extend Visa's.... and like the press secretary stated (she is a harvard alum)... if I was the students I would be upset paying that much to be going to online college. :beer:



> Like with any other illness, the CDC recommends sick students and school employees to stay at home. Those who exhibit COVID-19 symptoms while at school should be moved to an isolation room. Areas used by a sick person should be closed off until after they are cleaned and disinfected. The CDC recommends this not happen until 24 hours after the building closes which means some schools could close down for at least two days.


So agree with the people should stay home when sick. But you know that doesn't happen. Then the isolation room... Ok send the sick to a "sick" room. Which most schools have and someone looks after them. But many schools cut on staff nurses years ago so what if something goes down hill in a hurry? Now to the fact that cleaning of the rooms after the infected has left... ok.. simple. But read the next.... SCHOOL HAS TO BE SHUT DOWN FOR 24 HOURS.... WHAT?? So you cant have a "flow" of school. One week good for 5 days... next week only at school for 2 because school needed to be cleaned because of COVID. Janitors would be working 24/7. So hire more janitors people will say... well does the school have that budget??? 90% NOPE... or out source that cleaning... again... Budget... Schools are strapped for cash as it is. :bop:

The to even touch base back on the "flow" of teaching.... so you got your lesson plan for the week of kids being in school... Wait we need to shut down... now a teacher has to switch gears and go to virtual teaching. Or for a parent to figure out work, daycare, sitters, etc. When school could be "shut down" at the drop of a hat because someone got sick. I understand cleaning the sick room or the class room the student was in... but shut down the whole school for a "cleaning".... not feasible.



> Once the students do return, the CDC recommends teaching proper hygiene.


Yep and should be taught anyways... :thumb:



> The CDC encourages staff members and older students to wear masks or face coverings. The agency acknowledges face coverings may be challenging for students (especially younger students) to wear all day and does not recommend them for children younger than 2.


This is kind of feasible... but how about when students lose masks, cant afford them, forget them, etc. Again... cost is the issue. Not for the schools but the parents. Some parents cant afford $5 extra a month. Sad but true.



> Cleaning, disinfecting and ventilation should be intensified with high-touch areas disinfected at least once per day. Ventilation helps by allowing more outside air into the school.


So again back to the Janitors working 24/7... then some buildings or schools are 80 years old. do you think the have a great ventilation system? Most run on boilers. So schools will need to spend money and get these up grades. You know how long it takes for referendumns to pass for things that are actually needed....ie: more class rooms, new roof, new heating systems, etc. Most communities it takes about 3 years or 3 tries to get things passed. But now you will make it manditory and taxes will jump up.... GOOD LUCK. :bop:



> Inside the classroom, the CDC says desks should be spaced 6-feet apart if possible and tables should all face in the same direction with students only sitting on one side, not face-to-face. Students should also not share items.


Again in some schools this would be easy. But what if a classroom has 25 kids? Not so easy. Some learning enviroments are tables... ie: Shop classes, drafting classes, art classes.... think of band or music classes.... the amount of spit or how people are in close proxcimity of each other. It could be very hard to do.



> The CDC suggests that the same staff remain with the same group of students for the duration of school days to restrict mixing of different students. This will help to better contain the virus if a student happens to get sick.


So now you are asking teachers to teach different subjects? Different levels of subjects? You are taking the "social" aspect out of school that is actually almost more important for kids to figure out life...than the subject matter in school. Not good for the students. Or asking a teacher to teach calculus when they are just a algebra teacher. Or having someone teach Physics when they are an earth science teacher. Lets put it this way... back when I was in high school... I was an advance level of math... but bottom level in English (you can tell by my posts.. :thumb: ) So if all the "higher" level students had to stick together... how would that help me? I would fall behind in English or Science.... or if most of them went to band.. .I couldnt go to shop. You see the issue with not having students split.



> Playground equipment should be closed if possible or use should be staggered and the equipment cleaned and disinfected in between uses.


This is somewhat feasible... but again janitors working 24/7.



> Students are encouraged to bring their own lunches and eat in classrooms instead of the cafeteria. Food that is provided by the school should be pre-packaged in boxes or bags. Buffet-style is discouraged.


This is the biggest one!!! Cost is huge for pre-packaged and what not. Then asking students to bring from home... millions of students only get meals from the school program for FREE and need those meals or they don't eat during the school year. Parents need that assistance financially. Sad but true. :bop: So again... Cost for the schools in making these lunches available. If the school says "Screw you bring your own" because of budget issues... well... many kids will go hungry. Or even the reverse of this... BTW... which is happening in schools now. One kid brings in jimmy johns sandwich, Chocolate Cup cake, a bag of doritos, 2 sodas, etc. Another student has a PBJ, carrots, and water. One the school will say that is "discrimination" because the one students family can afford it and the other cant (yes schools now send out lists of what is acceptable to bring on field trips... I have seen these lists). Then the food allergy issues. the program that Michelle Obama did with the "healthy" eating... do they need to follow that when bringing from home??? I know some will roll your eyes. But if you don't have kids in the system now... you don't know how much it has changed. Sad but true.



> As for transportation, the CDC says arrival and drop-off times or locations should be staggered by cohort or other protocols should be used to limit contact between cohorts and direct contact with parents as much as possible.


This is do able and not that big of deal unless time constraints by parents is all. Or if parents can actually keep to a time frame. we all know people who think it is ok to be 10 mins late or to be running late... or the reverse... being early.

As you can see some of the CDC stuff is feasible but at what cost? That is the issue Trump has. Also Trump is listening to Pediatric Association who is saying... KIDS NEED TO BE IN SCHOOL. But here is my take... it should be up to the individual schools and communities how they want to handle it... not the president, not the govenors, etc. Because one town could be SWAMPED with COVID and another perfectly fine. The perfectly fine school should take the precautions they see fit and the swamped school should do what they see fit. It should be a case by case situation. Just like states reopening and what not. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... hools.html

This is the actual list of the CDC.

If you notice many state... IF FEASIBLE. Which it might not be for certain schools..... now lets think about how the Liability is for those schools and possible ramifications in the court of law??? you know people will be "Sue" happy and so will some lawyers be foaming at the mouth to take on cases. Not only looking to "sue" if covid happens in a situation. But "sue" for discrimination...ie: Little Johnny or Susie got singled out because of COVID. Or How come the Catholic Private School with a $50,000 a year tuition got all of these "features" to open up... but the poorest school district in the area couldn't do half of them but opened up... DISCRIMINATION!!!! I know that last one is a stretch... but even if it was two public schools.... ie: The "rich" area of a city where property values are an average of $750K gets a huge tax base for the school and the "poor" area of the city with property values are $100K and that is the tax base for the school. One will have more money available to do things while the other wont. Or the fact that one is a brand new school that just was built... the other is 100 years old. If you dont want to do "Rich" or "Poor"... lets go rural vs city. Some rural schools are older than some "city" schools or suburb schools. they dont have the infrastructure to make all the changes. So you will see lawyers just waiting to sue the school district saying... well School X did this... why didn't you? Then take that to the state and federal levels as well.... because of funding... Like I stated... just wait.

Like I stated... some of the stuff is feasible.... others not so much for 90% of the schools out there.


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## Chuck Smith

MN Update....

589 new "cases" and 5 deaths. 4 of the deaths were in assisted facilities. 12,535 completed tests. So that is a good number and hope it stays this way until the next holiday weekend... which is two months away... approximately. :beer:

ICU beds down to 116 and others hopitalized is at 135... so down 14 total from yesterday... which is good.

Rate of infection with the new cases is about 4.7%. As a total the rate of infection is....5.7%... so is still holding but hopefully decreasing soon. Better than national average. The death rate is holding at 3.7%... that needs to drop as well.

Recovery or "no longer needing isolation"... is 87.6%... which needs to get closer to 90%... but it is still holding good.

Stay informed... and hope these are accurate numbers and not tainted any way. But I am not sure how they are treating the "cases" verses how many people have it... ie: are some of these "cases" or "positive" tests the same person or not? I have no idea. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

Back to the reporting issues....

Saw this little diagram about FL... so when the media says..... DEATHS.... it wasn't from today. Again deaths are bad and we need to take things seriously. But the reporting on the stats is so all over the place. Then the media takes things out of context and exploits it.


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## Plainsman

Yesterday North Dakota tested 6000 people and found 69 positive. I dont remember our county exactly, but out of roughly 20,000 people I think we only have 66 positive. We have had two deaths.
I talked with a check out lady at Walmart yesterday and she actually knew someone with Covid1. She said her friend had to be quarantined for 14 days so they bought a camper and will spend the 14 days camping.


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## Chuck Smith

MN Update...

609 Cases, 19204 tests completed... an infection rate of 3.2%. Deaths 5 only 1 of those from an assisted care facility.

ICU beds 124... up 8... other hospitalized... 103... down 32. So still good numbers on both ends.

total Infection rate for the whole time period...5.6%

Recovery/no longer needing isolation rate....86.9%... this still needs to climb. :bop:

have a great weekend everyone.


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## Canuck

If you want sound, honest medical advice about how to bring down the Covid threat, please listen to Dr. Faucci and NOT the President.

Stay safe. Bring the death rate steadily down for two to three weeks, then open things up.

Dr. Faucci has a moral requirement through his swearing of the Hippocratic oath to protect you. Trump is trying to protect only himself and re-election.

I predict things continue to get worse in the hot locations (embers :bop: )


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## Chuck Smith

How about the other Doctors in the USA saying things as well? Should we not listen to them as well? How about the doctor that I posted a link to from MN... who is getting threatened? How about Dr. Brix?

What needs to be done is listen to everyone on this. Then make a game plan. There are people who are doom and gloom, there are people who say nothing is wrong at all, then there are people in the middle. We need to listen to them all.

Remember when Trump talked about the malaria drug.... and then the media and everyone went off on it as being FALSE....even Dr. Fauci.... hmmmmm..... what is going on now with it. They say it is the main drug used to help fight this.

Like I stated... they need to listen to everyone. Not just one person. Just like the CDC is guidlines... not the law when opening up. Each school, city, town, business, etc. Needs to look at honest facts and then make the decisions for themselves. But the hard part is getting HONEST FACTS!!!!


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## Canuck

Absolutely Chuck, hear what everyone has to say. Don't listen to just one opinion. If I had to simplify my decision I would ask someone who works in my local ICU facility. Are they coping well, struggling to keep up, getting swamped, having to make triage decisions? Then remember that they are dealing with the numbers from two weeks ago. Is the trend going down or up. If up and you are in my age group, with underlying conditions, I could easily croak from the Covid. I do not want that. I am at way more risk than the youngsters Trump is talking about.


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## Plainsman

Canuck dont listen to Trump if you dont want to, but absolutely dont listen to Fauchi. I dont care about his oath. Trump has an oath too you know so perhaps you have been wrong about him all along. An oath makes you unable to deceive right? oke:

Chuck brought up the drug Fauchi was bent out of shape over that has been the leading drug so far. So there must be soething wrong when doctors are attacked for their opinion. Perhaps Fauchi has stocks in the pharautical that makes the $4K drug he recommends.

The way liberals fawn over Fauchi is a head scratcher. The only answer is he is political. and they are more concerned about hating Trump than saving lives.

Im waitng to get a name. Some well known public figure faked covid infection. Im betting on Chris Cuomo.


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## Canuck

Honestly Plainsman and Chuck, President Donald J. Trump's opinion is probably one of the last I would put any faith in. Sorry if that offends y'all, I really am. I am basing my opinion solely on what I have seen and heard directly from him and how he has handled his own words after he says them. Thankfully my opinion in no way affects you and your opinion.

Fauci is pretty old school with a long valuable work history. He is old. He is/was treading a fine line with Trump having to dance around his words, Sure the media hammered Fauci with questions until he stated a sound bite disagreeing with the President and then they play that over and over. Okay fair enough. The situation sucks and makes working together even more difficult. But who is doing most of the politicising of masks, tests, school openings, etc?

If Fauci is pushed he will go off on Trump and go down in a blaze of glory that will make so many more sound bites than you can imagine. Trump is so easy to pick apart. The Chlordoxiquin or whatever trial you are relying was scientifically flawed. The trial ended on a set date. Those still in hospital were not counted in the data set. They were just set aside. Those may have been the sickest patients. There was no double-blind control. The study is no better than any other and worse than the few double blinds that have been carried out.

Trust your own judgement Chuck. You clearly are thinking this thing through. What you may need to do may be exactly what I and we all need to do. I don't know but I, like you should do what protects those who you care for and who care for you.

Take care. Forget politics if your medical system will allow.


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## Chuck Smith

https://freebeacon.com/media/nbc-contri ... -recovery/

This just shows you how the media and others are lying to do anything to push an agenda.

This "contributor" never had the virus. uke: This is the issue I have. Like I stated in this time of need and issue shouldn't be political. But everyone is trying to make it that way. Trump with masks, media with trying to do anything to hurt trump... same goes for many of the democratic leaders. I mean Pelosi should have never held up bills but she did. Just to play political games.

Canuck...



> Fauci is pretty old school with a long valuable work history. He is old. He is/was treading a fine line with Trump having to dance around his words, Sure the media hammered Fauci with questions until he stated a sound bite disagreeing with the President and then they play that over and over.


This is my assessment of Dr. Fauci as well. He is old school and approaching this with super caution. Which many older doctors would do. They would not jump to conclusions and want to take a longer approach to things. Remember how I have said over and over... we as a society are a NOW NOW NOW type society. If things dont get fixed quickly our attention span changes. This is why many are disagree with Dr. Fauci.



> But who is doing most of the politicising of masks, tests, school openings, etc?


EVERYONE IS... this isn't a right vs left... .they all are politicizing this stuff. Look how once the "mask" debate was put out that the media started to wear them in the pressers? Look then also many Dem's wore them on camera... etc. Then Trump goes off on how he doesn't need to wear them. They are all doing it and are idiots!!! ALL OF THEM.

The testing.... people were screaming not enough tests, need more testing, etc. Then that happened... now they dont want to talk about it. You remember this stuff in the beginning... I do. Now they dont want to admit that of course with more testing you will find more cases. But what is important is if you have an increase in the rate of infection. That is what needs to be looked at. Let me put it in a baseball scenario.... If you get 100 at bats and get 30 hits... you hit .300. Now lets say get 200 at bats and you get 50 hits. Some will say... wow you got 50 hits!!!! But you actually performed worse because your average went down... you are now hitting .267. See why "rate" should be more of an indicator. Sorry i hate to beat a dead horse... but this is actually more important than just "cases".... the "cases" is one factor... we need to know the whole story. :thumb:

Now with the schools.... this is just people jumping on Trump. He wants to give more guidlines out there to possibly use or follow. Because like I mentioned in a previous thread... the ones now are not feasible. They CDC even states that in those guidelines. But since the "media" is attacking... Trump goes right back talking about "defunding" or what ever saying if schools dont re-open... Which is BS as well... he is an idiot for saying these things. But much of what he is saying is taken out of context. I watched a Presser where the WH stated over and over.... Trump wants to work with Schools to help them open up and that they should make a plan they see fit for their area, state, etc. It shouldn't be just "ONE" uniform plan... they each need to be individualized for each school and each situation. But the Press kept hammering and hammering saying.... why doesn't Trump say what they need to do... and she repeats herself over and over and over. Then the next day headlines are... Trump has no Plans and strikes down CDC.. or something like that. It is all stupid political BS by everyone... including Trump. :bop:



> Trust your own judgement Chuck. You clearly are thinking this thing through. What you may need to do may be exactly what I and we all need to do. I don't know but I, like you should do what protects those who you care for and who care for you.
> 
> Take care. Forget politics if your medical system will allow.


AGREE 100%.... That is why I am trying to get facts out there. I know I am on a ND website talking about MN stats. But those are what I can find the easiest. I urge others to just try and find out the most info you can about this COVID-19 and not listen to the media. ALL OF THEM ARE LYING.... get the numbers and look at them. Then make your own personal decision. Some might look at the numbers I posted for MN and say.... NO WAY.... I am going to social distance, mask up, not go out, get delivery, etc. That is what you see fit to do... the go for it. :thumb: But I just want to make sure people know that we as a society are not getting the correct info from anyone. Like I showed in my "monthly" numbers.... What the heck.... how can cases go up by 58 but yet completed tests not go up? The tests are date stamped and that is what the little foot notes say on the Dept Of Health website... and that means the numbers can change. So I get if the cases go up... so shouldn't the tests for that time period? Something didn't smell right to me. But again... that is the info we are getting. Also with the June monthly stats.... those could really change... they might skyrocket up or even go down. But we will just have to wait and see... I am sure until the end of july. oke: But the one positive is that today in MN they had processed over 19000 test! Which is great and hopefully with good reporting we can get an accurate numbers. eace:


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## Plainsman

Chuck your Minnesota stats is w& I posted Stutsman county yesterday. I was at Walmart yesterday and have never seen so many out of state license plates. I also have never run into so many unrespectful drivers. I wa headed down a one way lane the right direction and this Humvee dwerved nearly into me waving with one finger.


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## Resky

I don't have that much faith in Dr. Fauci. After all it was only last January he said this Covid-19 thing is not that serious and you don't need to isolate or wear a mask. So if you're young and health, go ahead and take that cruise ship trip. Not only was he wrong...he was dead wrong to a lot of people. He is a doctor of science, not a medical doctor. Not saying he hasn't done a lot of good things for humans because he has but he is far from being perfect and a hero during this pandemic.

I've listened to dozens of doctors that are on the front line treating patients and they all contradict Fauci's put down of the use of hydroxychlorquine. You have to ask yourself why is he not supporting something that works no matter how small it might be. He recently stated that only science is fact. I disagree with that. Science is a never ending procedure to find the truth and facts but with a never ending period. Science like most things is constantly evolving with the facts often changing. Kind of like eggs are good eggs are bad for you. It changes with every scientific study.

You can take the word of Dr. Fauci if you wish but personally I'll listen to the doctors working on the front line.


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## Canuck

Locking down until the curve flattens close to the baseline before the spike. Carefully open up using masks, distancing, hand sanitizing, etc. works. Manitoba has had no new Covid cases for 10 days but we are still being very careful and considerate of others. Have a good weekend.


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## Plainsman

> The Chlordoxiquin or whatever trial you are relying was scientifically flawed. The trial ended on a set date. Those still in hospital were not counted in the data set. They were just set aside. Those may have been the sickest patients. There was no double-blind control. The study is no better than any other and worse than the few double blinds that have been carried out.


Hydroxychloroquine is being discused by two doctors on FOX right now. They say its so safe that it should be available over the counter. They both say Fauchi is wrong. They said its safer than Tylenol. Fauchi talked about heart problems and the one doctor has prescribed it for many patients for 30 years with no heart problems. He spoke with cardiologists that say they ha e never seen a problem. Fauchi is old that dont make anyone automatically honest. Its clear he is not being honest with us.

Oh by the way both of these doctors are tresting covid patients. and Hydrochloroquine has etter than a 50% recovery rate in pa t ients using it. Not perfect by any means, but the best we have.


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## KEN W

It's this simple.....

The patchwork response to the virus with no comprehensive Trump federal guidelines like the EU, means we will struggle to contain it for months to come while the rest of the world moves on. :******: :******:


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## Canuck

Trump wants you to take your medical advice from Chuck Woolery host of the Love Connection. He says Fauci is lying. Does your health insurance cover charlatans? What a country! You are all doomed. Unbelievable. It would be so funny except 135,205 people (so far ) are dead............................ :shake: 
The USA is just like those teenagers who swallow dish washer capsules........... :shake: 
Dumber than a sack of hammers.
WAKE UP. GIVE YOUR HEADS A SHAKE. TAKE A LOOK AT YOURSELVES>


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## Canuck




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## Resky

Canuck said:


> *The USA isDumber than a sack of hammers*


You're stepping over the line now little man. Fortunately for you, you can hide behind your keyboard. I know you don't have the gonads to stand in front of me or any other American and spout your garbage.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck....

Lots are getting their heads out of their rear ends and seeing we are getting lied to by many people...

Look at all the studies coming out about the Malaria drug.... almost 1 a day saying it is a good treatment for COVID-19. Yet a few months ago we were getting lied to by the media and others saying it will "kill" you. Dr. Fauci even stated this... yet it is showing he was wrong. I am not sure of this or not... but i think it came out that Dr. Fauci and others had ties or "investments" into another company that is going after a vaccine and also treatments... that were more expensive. I am not sure and please dont take it as gospel. But i thought I read that some were and again... dont know if it is true. But again.... that is things we need to know as well.

Also we are reading everyday about how numbers are "spiking" and then we also see things saying that ICU and hospitals are "over runned".... but then we read another article from people who are heads of these hospitals and saying.... NO WE ARE NOT OVER RUN WITH COVID PATIENTS. They are also saying they are ready if things get worse.

So we are all getting lied too on all aspects of this. That is what is scary.

Ok... now MN numbers for today.

I read over the weekend in MN we had some bigger numbers pop up... I think we almost hit 700 cases for the one day and the other were were in the higher 500's. Anyways.. also those two days they processed over 29,000 tests! So with out the exact numbers of "new cases"... I rounded up to say we had 1300 and only did 29000 tests (which we did more)... but still for the weekend a 4.5% infection rate for tests completed.

But for todays numbers....11776 Tests processed....499 "new cases"... is a 4.23% infection rate for tests completed. 2 deaths both over 80 years old and split between nursing facility and private residence. ICU beds 114 and 133 other hospitalization. So these numbers are decreasing slightly. But we all know they lag about 10 days. But good numbers there. We are at a "total" infection rate of about 5.56% for the entire period. Isolation/recovery rate is at about 86.9%... this needs to increase like I keep mentioning. But over all good numbers.... death rate is at 3.5%... which again needs to go down.

A little side not... if people read and say "Olmsted county in MN is a new "hotspot".... well they have had an increase in cases. 40+ are linked to one bar where an employee had it. So again be careful. Make an informed decision and stay safe.


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## Plainsman

Chuck I also read and heard that Fauchi had stocks in the pharmacudical pushing for the new drugs. Also, Trump Derangement Syndrome is beyond doubt more dangerouse to our nation than corvid. If Canuck and Ken has their way we would be like Venezuala in ten years.

Edit : 1:12 pm Mountain Time: Moments ago Fauci said no one could have done better, the Trump team has been impressive. oke: Oh oh now that will push Trump Derangement over the edge. :rollin:

I cant explain that what looks so clear many dont see. I was watching this a couple of days ago. Hmmmm.


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## Canuck

Resky,
As soon as the border opens I will be down there to personally apologize to you. The pandemic is bringing out the worst in me. Many people, both Canadians and Americans, are dumber than a sack of hammers.
Clearly you are not one of them hammer people. My apologies to you. I was wrong. The USA is a shining example for all the world to see. No country is doing so well in quelling the Covid-19 virus. Now we get to watch while you show us how to carefully reopen your economy. You should all be very proud of your health care system, your caring non-partisan politicians and everything else you do to promote your experts without ever, ever, ever throwing anyone under the bus in order to make someone look good. So uplifting in this day and age.


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## Canuck

Remember the Covid Parties two weeks ago?

So many stories in the naked city.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7169518/coronavirus-covid-party-death-hoax/

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...h-party-taking-trump-touted-drugs/ar-BB16rRlA


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## Plainsman

You are wrong, but no apologies needed. :rollin: :beer:

I get the videos to come up, but dont have good enough reception to watch them without me going over the edge. I can guess you found some idiots as an example and think its us because we take it seriouse, but think its being hyped for political advantage. Look at the posts on here trying to pit Fauci vs Trump. Now Fauci praises Trump and liberals will be chewing on the carpet and whining like dogs.

Bad reception. 
Social distancing at 6000 feet.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck...

I agree that the "COVID" parties that some college kids and others are throwing are so stupid. It is like when parents throw the "chicken pox" type parties so their kids can get it. That is what is happening and is stupid by all involved. COVID can kill you if you dont know about any underlying conditions.... be it a weak heart, high blood pressure, asthma, etc. Anyways... those are just people being stupid.

The person who kid died because at a church event.... the sad part is we dont know how many have died that went to any protest rallies. Because you cant ask that question. So when people are using "going to a churcH" or Trump rally... etc as a political jumping point for Covid Spread... they need to ask... why are they not asking about people if they got it at a protest? I am not saying dont protest or anything like that. But if we want TRUTH in everything and also do make CONTACT TRACING WORK... we need to know all of this. But yet nobody will touch that with a 100ft pole. That is the issue and why this whole covid stuff shouldn't be a political jumping point for anyone.... Trump, Biden, Dem's, Republicans, ETC.... this shows the true colors of everyone when they start making a pandemic political.

Plainsman... great way to social distance... I am jealous. oke:

Canuck.... enjoy Manitoba for all it is worth... the rolling grain fields in the south to the northwoods cabin type atmosphere of the Riding Mountain national park and more. :thumb:


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## KEN W

Plainsman......you are right about Venezuela. Except it is the fool in the WH who thinks he is a dictator just like in Venezuela.

States are now rolling back reopenings. Trump says we aren't doing that. He would rather we all get sick and then can't vote. Which is why he is against mail in voting. Sorry Clown Prince.....I am looking into voting by mail.


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## Canuck

So I saw a news story today where a group of young college people organized a Covid Party where everyone threw in some $$ and invited positive Covid cases to attend. The first person to test positive won the pot. In this case, the winner got he Covid, ended up in the hospital and died. His last words were "I think I made a big mistake". Apparently the story is true.

Plainsman, I felt I should apologize to Resky. I was being a bit obnoxious. Nice place to camp. Enjoy the fresh air.

Thanks Chuck, I will enjoy all Manitoba has to offer. No new cases in 13 days! I don't want to get too specific as to my locale. Resky might come looking for me when the border opens.


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## Canuck

Another sad story...a death that did not have to happen.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...r-texas-covid-party/ar-BB16Gub3?ocid=msedgdhp


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## Canuck

There is a lot of worry about all the "lies" being told around the Covid virus (except for Trump's lies...those are okay).

Well the poop does not lie...

https://kdvr.com/news/researchers-are-using-your-poop-to-help-track-covid-19/

Covid virus levels in sewage have spiked in locales where the virus numbers have been "created" as Trumps calls it by increased testing.


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## Chuck Smith

So the sad but truth about idiots doing the "covid" parties. That is the second one I have read about. I think the other was a Fraternity in Alabama did it. Or was if FL... heck it could be both. But that is just pure stupidity.

The waste treatment is a great idea to help or add another "tool" into the mix of this whole COVID stuff. But it is hard to tell because what if COVID positive people poop more than someone who isn't sick? But again... I find it very interesting and also could be a way to help with all of this. Like I mentioned... another TOOL to help. :thumb:

BTW.... All the lies even ones told by Trump need to stop. Along with the media, other politicians, etc.

A funny thing... I clicked on a "snap chat" story of a pseudo celebrity... Perez Hilton. He was going crazy today that CA closed back up many things. But he is totally anti-trump. But yet had a melt down about these closings. I just find that funny. It is the people who want their cake and eat it too. Yes we are all like this... myself included at times. :beer:

But I agree with any "hot spots" that spark up need to be taking the correct actions. I also watched the WH briefing and feel so sorry for the new lady. She has to deal with these "journalists" literally asking the same question over and over and over....day after day after day. Like the one that keeps getting asked is.... So how does increase in cases have anything to do with increase in testing that the president keeps talking about.... well you idiots... if you were testing at 1000 a day and were having 10% infection rate...(100 cases a day)... then you test 10,000 a day and have a 5% infection rate you get 500 cases a day. But YET THE INFECTION RATE IS ACTUALLY GOING DOWN!!! But they just dont get this and want to hammer on the "new cases".

**** Side note is some of the states are actually seeing a slight up tick in infection rates per tested cases. But like I mentioned some are antibody tests and are delayed tests that were done a month ago. Still new cases and things to see and worry about. Also those states, cities, towns, etc need to take action for what they see is fit for the people who live there. :bop:


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## Canuck

I just can't follow the whole too much testing/slow down the testing discussion and Trump stating that the high number of cases has been "created" by increased testing...if that is the case and you wanted to slow down population growth then get rid of pregnancy test kits...that is what is causing all the increased pregnancies.

Not testing is sticking your head in the sand.

I read that 48 hospitals in Florida have reported having no ICU beds left at this time. (Part of ?)Florida is considering increasing closures. Wonder if the President will be there golfing this weekend? :wink:


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## Chuck Smith

His whole "slow" down testing was complete BS by the media.

What he did was get it out of FEMA's hands. It is in private companies and left up to the states. So when this first broke out FEMA was the one to get the testing going... they did. Then the states and private companies took over. Now he is having FEMA back away because the states and private companies are doing the job. FEMA is just there to "help" when needed.

Like they could go to these "hot spots" and help with increase testing. But they are not needed in other places. Before FEMA was doing it in all 50 states.

You see he isn't "slowing" down testing he is letting the states and private companies handle it. Big difference than what is getting reported. Or what people think. :thumb:

Then like I keep trying to illustrate. The testing vs number of cases. I will try to explain it again....

If testing back in march/april was 100,000 tests a month. With a 10% infection rate (which it was back then) you would have 10,000 cases a month. Now if the country is producing 1,000,000 tests a month and if the infection rate is now at a 7% rate you would have 70,000 cases a month. YES YOU HAVE MORE CASES.... but the rate of infection is less. Which is a great thing. Do you or hate to say it... media dont get that? What it is showing is less people per capita dont have it. If the data still showed 10%... that mean 10% of the population has it.... now in my example it is showing that only 7% of the population has it per capita. So yes... when you have more testing the cases will go up... it is just are they going up at the same rate as it was with fewer tests. If the answer is yes it is moving at the same rate... then we know what we are up against... if it decreases it shows that it wasn't as bad as we thought it was... So then make decisions based on that. If the rate increases when test numbers go up... then you know it is worse and need to make adjustments.

Remember the fear and talk by the CDC was saying it is way worse than the numbers are showing. This was right away..... now the numbers are showing it isn't as bad. Remember right away the only way to get tested was IF YOU SHOWED 3 out of 5 sympthoms. Now anyone can go get tested. So the FEAR of people not showing signs and passing on the virus that the CDC had is the exact population that is getting tested. So again... if the numbers decrease to under that 10% range of "infection rate" it isn't as bad as they thought right away. What is happening now is we are getting a more clear picture of the whole scope of things.

Like I state we need to keep a watch on some of the numbers. Just like I read today "miami" is now considered the epicenter of this now. But you remember NY people fled NY and where did lots of them go.... down the coast. oke: To states that were not on LOCK DOWN... just something to keep in mind and yes... it is a tinfoil hat type idea i just threw out there. But could be more info and statistics need to be known. :thumb:


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## Canuck

Chuck I do understand what you are saying about testing and infection rates. Does Trump understand what he is saying about the testing and the information it provides. Here is some of the media BS of which you speak...but on this one I am sorry he did say, on several occasions that testing creates cases and that the Democrats only want testing to make him look bad in the election.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=trump...6BF0DA2C09F475&ts=1594745375650&wsso=Moderate


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## Chuck Smith

I understand exactly what you sent and what he is saying.

If you notice the media and democrats only talk about CASES... not percentages. That is his issue or why he says the stupid things he does about "no more testing" or "cutting testing". Because if you watch any of the WH briefings they keep asking the same questions and they get the same answers everyday. Increase in testing will bring "more" cases. But the percentages keep doing down. Death rates are decreasing even in the "hot zones". But the media keeps talking about CASES. The reason why.... political posturing for an election trying to make someone look bad. He can do that good enough on his own. oke:

Here is the deal... when testing goes up you do get more cases. When you test people it will "create" new cases. Just like I talk about if someone tests positive for the antibody but negative for the "virus"... this means they had it in the past. So that is a new "case"... but not an active one. BTW... if some does have the antibodies or has had COVID and are now recovered... PLEASE GO DONATE BLOOD AND PLASMA. They need it and it is one of the most effective treatments out there. :thumb:

You see how the media and other politicians are making this virus political. So that is why he says the things he does... and I also understand why he is saying them. Which makes him look stupid. :thumb:

But it shows you that this pandemic is turning political instead of actually worrying about the people. It is why some Represenatives held bills hostage. it is why some Senators are doing the same. ALL POLITICAL BS. Same goes for the media... why do you think Trump is lashing out at Fox news. Fox is trying to get some info out to people... granted it is slanted. But it isnt exactly what Trump wants them to promote. So he lashes out.

If the media would just report facts and not try to make them slanted we would be a whole lot better. But they wont let that happen. Like I stated watch a couple of the WH briefings and you will hear the same question over and over. Then the next day.. they ask it again. Then again the next day. It is the whole... if we repeat it enough people will think it is true. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

Here is a sign and it is 100% accurate.

That is why this whole mask issue is stupid on all aspects and anyone who screams for or against them. Our "laws" lots of times contradict each other. Or you put people in a situation where they could get sued.


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## Plainsman

Its amazing how some things backfire on politicians. I did worry a little about the polls, but I am encouraged by what I hear people saying. Its amazing in the campgrounds. People are social distancing, but we see very few residents in Montana. We see Illiinois, Colorado, Texas, California, Florida, and its as if they came to ride out the virus because they went with wedklyand monthly rates. Now to my point: life long democrsts are saying they are voting for Trump.


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## Chuck Smith

Now to my MN updated numbers...

403 "new cases", with 6 deaths. 3 are from a nursing or assisted care facility. Processed tests 8510. So that is an infection rate of 4.73%. Which is good but still needs to drop. Also tests need to be back in that 10K range. 87.4% is the recovery rate. Which again needs to be up in the +90% but still good numbers. At least not nose diving. :thumb:

The death rate is at 3.5%... with 77.8% of them coming from nursing/assisted care facilities.

ICU numbers is 106 in ICU and another 129 in the hospital. So those numbers keep decreasing. Which is good.

Again... stay safe and make the decisions that fit your needs. I am a betting man... but I could see soon our Gov. Walz making masks possibly a state wide thing. Just because of what is going on nationally. But we shall see... we have a few weeks to see if testing vs positive cases JUMP because of all the protests, people on vacations, bars opening up, etc. If all this "explodes" or not. That is why the testing numbers need to be up in the 10K's or more. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

> Now to my point: life long democrsts are saying they are voting for Trump.


Some of the people I have talked to and are possibly "voting for Trump" have stated the straw that broke the camels back for them is how radical all the "defund" police stuff is going. How some of the DNC is bowing or not speaking up about that issue. These people I talk with agree that reform is needed and training. But to do what is happening in NYC, Minneapolis, Portland and Seattle... they are fed up with. They all stated you can't let your city be "overtaken" by radicals no matter what political side they are on. Then when you bring up the virus. Some say... "he needs to do more". But when I ask what more can he do? They dont have an answer. Then i bring up basic Civics on how this country was founded on Fed, State, County, City.. levels. Where the fed is there to help the states if need be... the state is there to help the county if need be... the county is there to help the city if need be. So you see now with the Fed leaving it up to the State/County/City to do there parts. Which many are. But now you look at the "hot spots"... that is where the Fed needs to step up or ask.. do you need help. :thumb: When I break it down like that they kind of understand more of what is going on. Then I bring up the media... and they all agree how it is 90% a hit job towards the president... and they are finally seeing this. But I also say that Trump does a good enough job by himself to make him look foolish.... they also agree on that. :beer:


----------



## Chuck Smith

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... p#image=51

Here is a link to some numbers for each state. The best way to look at it is the "infection rate". Not all the cases and what not. Some will alarm you... like AZ is right now at 17% infection rate. These are the state with more than a 10% infection rate... NJ, AZ, RI, MA, FL, MS, MD, SC, NE, GA, AL, TX, PA...

But just to give everyone some idea's on some "hot spot" areas and places to look at if you are thinking of travel or not to travel. :thumb:

Just wanted numbers so people can see. BTW... this is the first time i have seen the "infection rate" on any website that is doing all states. Which is good.. but why so late. oke:

People please stay informed on all of this.

RIght now the USA is an average of 9% infection rate. (actually 8.99% oke: ) this needs to keep dropping!!

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... in-us.html


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-3 ... 19-results



> ORLANDO, Fla. - After FOX 35 News noticed errors in the state's report on positivity rates, the Florida Department of Health said that some laboratories have not been reporting negative test result data to the state.
> 
> Countless labs have reported a 100 percent positivity rate, which means every single person tested was positive. Other labs had very high positivity rates. FOX 35 News found that testing sites like one local Centra Care reported that 83 people were tested and all tested positive. Then, NCF Diagnostics in Alachua reported 88 percent of tests were positive.
> 
> How could that be? FOX 35 News investigated these astronomical numbers, contacting every local location mentioned in the report.
> 
> The report showed that Orlando Health had a 98 percent positivity rate. However, when FOX 35 News contacted the hospital, they confirmed errors in the report. Orlando Health's positivity rate is only 9.4 percent, not 98 percent as in the report.
> 
> The report also showed that the Orlando Veteran's Medical Center had a positivity rate of 76 percent. A spokesperson for the VA told FOX 35 News on Tuesday that this does not reflect their numbers and that the positivity rate for the center is actually 6 percent.
> 
> FOX 35 News went on to speak with the Florida Department of Health on Tuesday. They confirmed that although private and public laboratories are required to report positive and negative results to the state immediately, some have not. Specifically, they said that some smaller, private labs were not reporting negative test result data to the state.
> 
> "The Department immediately began working with those labs to ensure that all results were being reported in order to provide comprehensive and transparent data," a spokesperson for the Florida Department of Health said. "As the state continues to receive results from various labs, the Department will continue educating these labs on proper protocol for reporting COVID-19 test results."
> Florida is currently experiencing a surge in COVID-19 cases, reporting the state's daily reported cases have gone from about 2,000 a day a month ago to over 12,000. Then, on Tuesday, state health officials reported the largest single-day increase in deaths yet, as 132 more were announced.
> 
> Doctors had been predicting that a surge in deaths would follow Florida's jump in daily reported cases. The growing caseload is partly driven by increased testing, but a larger percentage of tests are coming back positive, jumping from 6 percent a month ago to more than 18 percent.
> 
> Almost all people infected with coronavirus survive, but those who do succumb usually die two or more weeks after they are first diagnosed.
> 
> While Florida has broken national records for jumps in cases, the state's death toll is nowhere near the national record. When COVID-19 was ravaging New York three months ago, it recorded 799 deaths on April 9 and had a top seven-day average of 763 deaths on April 14. New York now has one of the nation's lowest death rates per capita, recording 10 per day over the last week.
> 
> The latest report from the Florida Department of Health can be viewed below. It includes the positivity rates per lab statewide.


This article talks about how reporting is accurate. They are not reporting all the test cases that are negative to possibly skew the numbers. It is what I have been talking about how there is no set way that every state, hospital, etc are using. Some of it is willy nilly. So again... we the people are not getting accurate info.


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## Chuck Smith

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy ... nflated-90

Just another article stating the same thing as above. Poor reporting and what not.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/d ... an-legend/

This is an article talking about how the "covid" party where the 30 year old died might not be all that it was cracked up to be. No sources, no dates of the party, etc. Also the article has now been edited to add in a few other things to cover the publications hind end.

Again not saying it didn't happen. But it is getting looked at. oke:


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## Canuck

This will "solve" your inaccurate reporting. The Trump administration has ordered hospitals to bypass the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and send all coronavirus patient information to a central database in Washington beginning on Wednesday. The move has alarmed health experts who fear the data will be politicized or withheld from the public.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/coro...0200715-aizxwwrqlbaufjsjig3rlvx7qy-story.html

Trump will bury the data for his own sake.

That man is making me pretty nervous.

Chuck, after two weeks with no cases Manitoba had five yesterday. Not many but a disappointment after two weeks with no new cases being detected.


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## Chuck Smith

Canuck..

I just read that too about the by passing the CDC. I have few takes on this...

1. This is good so we can get a uniformed reporting out there.

2. This is bad because now we don't have a check and balance type thing. Who will regulate or watch over this. Because either party could make this even more political than it is already.

3. The CDC has been all over the place and it right now is its own political theatre. So of course they will complain. :thumb:

4. With the political climate of the USA right now... nobody believes anyone on anything. You got people saying all Dem's are liars... you got people saying TRUMP is a liar... you got people who just don't believe anything anymore from the media, elected officials (all parties), etc. So this will do nothing but push a divide even further.

So kind of my honest take on this. Lets say this "new" agency finds a whole lot of wrong numbers and cases go down. You will have people saying... TRUMP COOKED THE BOOKS. Then if the agency finds wrong numbers and the cases goes up... You will have people screaming... "SWAMP.... looking to hurt TRUMP". So no matter what this will become political by the media no matter what. Even if the numbers stay the exact same... people will say either... TRUMP IS HIDING THINGS... or.... THEY ARE LYING.. the numbers should be less. It is a lose/lose situation.

I honestly hope this is just to make things more uniformed and accurate is the reasoning behind this move. Also to help the speeding up of reporting. Like in my examples how can cases go up by 50 in APRIL when I looked at the numbers July 1... then again on July 7. That is over two months those cases didnt get "reported". Also how could the cases go up by 50 and testing only go up in the single digits??? Hopefully this will streamline everything. Also it will be interesting come mid November... what might be some of the numbers coming out on this whole virus thing.... It could go either direction. Yeah I know.. tinfoil hate type thinking. But I personally dont know who to believe. I am watching things with my own eyes and doing my own research and things are still all over the board. You got media lying, elected officials lying, Trump saying.. not a big deal, you got hospitals lying, you got testing facilities lying, etc. Who do you believe????

I am glad in MB things are looking good and even with the new cases that popped up... did they give you any indication of where they think they got it? Was it an elderly care facility? Was the new cases recent or dated back in April? Was it people who maybe finally made it home from Holiday down in mexico or some other destination (ie: snow birds who get away during the winter) and finally got test results back? Just curious is all. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

MN Daily numbers...

578 "new" cases. 12,452 tested... that is 4.64% infection rate. 8 Deaths with 5 coming from "care" facilities. ICU's at 106 and other in hospital is 148...that is an increase but not a "problem". But still good numbers. Recovery rate or no longer needing isolation is at 87.3%... so still needs to go up.

Death rate is 3.47% and with that 77.7% coming from nursing/care facilities.

Overall the whole period an infection rate of 5.53%

Again everyone stay safe out there. And like i keep saying... need more testing and also the numbers to keep decreasing... but in MN it looks pretty stable and things trending the right direction.


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## Canuck

Chuck, all young people...

WINNIPEG -- Public health officials are announcing five new cases of COVID-19 in Manitoba, ending the province's streak of days without a COVID-19 case at 13.

The cases include:

A young woman between the ages of 10 and 19 in the Southern Health Region;
A woman in her 30s from the Southern Health Region;
A man in his 40s from the Interlake-Eastern Health Region;
A man in his 20s in the Winnipeg Health Region; and
A woman in her 20s from the Winnipeg Health Region.

Health officials said one of the cases announced on Tuesday was a passenger on a WestJet flight that travelled from Winnipeg to Calgary.

The flights were WestJet 261 that left Winnipeg on June 27 and WestJet flight 526 from Calgary to Winnipeg on July 2.

According to the province, the affected rows on flight 261 are rows seven to 22. The affected rows on flight 526 are rows four to 10.

People on those flights are told to self-monitor for symptoms, and if they develop, they should self-isolate and contact Health Links or use the online screening tool.

"While public health assesses the risk to others as low, it is sharing this information to ensure people are aware and know to seek testing if symptoms develop," the province said in the news bulletin.

Investigations into all the cases are ongoing.

With the five new cases, the province has had a total of 330 cases since early March.

There are currently five active cases in Manitoba and 318 people have recovered.

The death toll remains at seven.

On Monday, 304 tests were performed, bringing the total to 71,803 since early February.


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## Chuck Smith

Those are great numbers to have... and interesting about the people who go them.

Just trying to figure out how or where. That is the hardest part about this. if those 5 cases did the isolation, masks, etc. How did they get it??

edit:

Just another question.... are they doing testing on the Tribal lands or people? I am just curious because we all know how this virus could knock out the native tribal people quicker than others. It is one of the fears here in USA about this same thing. Just curious is all.


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## Canuck

Reserves have been tightly locked down by the residents. Some reserves set up barricades at road access points to screen people coming onto reserve lands.
Testing on reserves has been really stepped up due to the limited medical facilities in rural areas and the fact that the virus could spread very quickly through the community.
Nunavut has had zero cases. They made there own residents quarantine in a hotel and they were policed. People complained but they did it. No one with the virus has been allowed into their region.
In Manitoba numbers are so low that the contract tracing still works well.


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## Plainsman

> Nunavut has had zero cases. They made there own residents quarantine in a hotel and they were policed. People complained but they did it. No one with the virus has been allowed into their region.


 Its a shame our media are such liars. They could loose lives because people will not abide being policed here. I think they woukd if the media had not destroyed trust. I would think our media has already cost lives. The false reporting which was exaggerated ten fold in Florida was no accident. Remember how a couple of you were all over that? You need to start being a little more, do I dare use such a eord. discriminating. Not as in prejudging, but as in discernment.


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## Chuck Smith

> In Manitoba numbers are so low that the contract tracing still works well.


I am glad people are staying safe.

Here is the big issue with "contact Tracing" in the usa. If people didn't let the protests, rallies, funerals go on it could "possibly" work in the states that "shut down". The states that didn't shut down the contact tracing is almost impossible.

Again not saying people shouldn't protest. But if any of the elected officials in those states scream or even mention the words "contact tracing"... they should be shut right down and made an example. Because NO BODY HAS COME OUT AGAINST THE PROTESTS OR RALLIES AND THE THREAT OR SPREAD OF COVID. They only came out against TRUMP RALLIES. Which again... you cant have it one way and not the other. :thumb:


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## Plainsman

> They only came out against TRUMP RALLIES. Which again... you cant have it one way and not the other.


 Cbuck maybe thats a good point to start on. Can we all agree on that?
Headlines: "33 Florida labs busted cooking the books". They reported 98% infection rate while reality was 9.8%. I suppose they will try tell us it was the computer put the decimal in the wrong place. Why did they do that?


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## Chuck Smith

> Headlines: "33 Florida labs busted cooking the books". They reported 98% infection rate while reality was 9.8%.


Here is the real issue with all of this with FL. They were only reporting the POSITIVES. Which doesn't give anyone a real clear picture on this. Yes the "new" cases were the correct numbers. But they were not reporting testing.... why is that???? Because like I have stated if the actual infection rate is below 10% for people.... it is better than what everyone originally thought. If it is less than what our nation is right now... I think that is like 9.8%... why lie??? It is getting politicized by someone... and why??

Because in that one link I posted it stated that FL is now at a 10.5% infection/positive test rate... is that number correct or not? Is that lower?

See this is why we need the truth in reporting the numbers. Or a uniformed way to report it. This could be interesting what comes of all of this. It is too early to tell and we need a "wait and see" approach. :bop:


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## Canuck

https://www.complex.com/life/2020/07/canadian-mask-first-to-deactivate-covid-19


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## Chuck Smith

THAT IS AWESOME!!!!

Now Trump better suck up to Canada to get some of these shipped to the USA... :thumb: :beer:


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## Canuck

So I heard a fitting comment today about the Covid virus response..."When you mix politics with science, you get politics".

I looked at North Dakota and Manitoba numbers out of interest

ND MB
Population 761,723 1,343,000
# Covid cases 4,565 318
# of Covid deaths 88 7
# of Covid tests 126,564 75,000


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## Resky

Chuck Smith said:


> THAT IS AWESOME!!!! Now Trump better suck up to Canada to get some of these shipped to the USA... :thumb: :beer:


I went t the web site and read everything there. Thought why not so I ordered three packs of five each for about $23. First hurdle was you must become a member to order, no guest orders. Again why not as I never use my correct phone number and always use my junk email address. Got to the final stage before entering a credit card number and shipping was $25, more than the order itself. Said if I add another $58 on the order I would get one free sample, no reduction or free shipping. No thank you, I'll stick with the carbon filter masks I now wear.


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## Chuck Smith

MN daily update...

611 "new cases" with 8 deaths. 4 of those deaths in assisted living type facilities. 14812 tests. So infection rate of 4.13%.

ICU beds 103 and other hospitals beds are 146. So still great numbers there... not getting "swamped" at all. But we need to make sure they stay there.

Total death rate is now 3.44%. Still needs to drop to 0. 77.26% of deaths are from nursing/assisted care places.

Recover/non isolation rate....86.34%... this has dropped a little. But the way I am calculating it... it can be off. I am not subtracting deaths from either total cases and "no longer need isolation".... so either add in the 1526 deaths as no longer needing isolation... or take that number away from total cases. But I have been doing it the same way from the beginning so I wont change now... so the death numbers are not removed or added. So this way I can stay consistant.

Total over all rate of infection....5.51%

Total tested is over 805K in Mn.


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## KEN W

Question......How many of you approve of the way Trump is handling the virus? Is he doing what he needs to do to stop this thing.

I say no.....he basically hasn't done much of anything. What should he be doing?

Second question.....Who of you wears a mask in public to help stop this?


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opin ... ence-quote

Just wait for even more misquotes from this presser.

Ken...

I think he is doing what he actually can. Remember at the beginning everyone was ready to call him a dictator and what not. But I will go over the list of things he did right away...

1. Travel Ban from very highly infected countries
2. Streamlined production of masks, ventilators, other medical supplies (ie cut some of the regulations and gave funding to companies to switch over to those production lines)
3. Fast tracked and cut regulations to get a vaccine to the market
4. Sent a ship that didn't get used to NYC
5. Streamlined testing the same way he did with production of supplies and vaccine. 
6. Got the testing into the hands of the private sector so not all the goverment red tape
7. Got FEMA to jump all over the testing right away... and now play a secondary role to the pvt sector
8. Let the states decide what they should do for their own citizens... again WY is different than NYC.
9. Let the smaller goverment who have "boots on the ground" make the decisions for the people they see daily!
10. Set up a guideline to reopen... then it was up to the smaller goverment (state, city, etc) to decide if they fit for them or not.
11. Lets not forget about all the bills he signed and wanted on is desk ASAP to help with relief but Pelosi held hostage a few extra days to get her pet projects in them. You forget about that?? especially in a time of need and a pandemic someone would try to play politics. I have no problem with them doing that but not during a crisis.

On the mask issue... I wear one as much as possible when I am in stores or other public settings. I do not wear one at work.

Here is my question for you... *What more do you think Trump should do? * I would say other than to just shut his mouth... :thumb:

Then we can have a debate if that is legal or not for a President to do with the way our system is set up.

Because our system wasn't set up for the FED's to run everything and "rule" all. It was for the smaller goverment to make the decisions. Remember the whole fight for freedom was "taxation without representation"... ie: a "king" rules all...and no other smaller goverment could have a say. Remember the "dictator" issue....and if he actually did these things would citizens listen or would some make it political and say... SEE WE TOLD YOU HE IS A DICTATOR. :beer:

Edit: The Gov of Georgia doing his "mask ban" thing. That will be interesting and see if it goes to the State Supreme court. Because this is why our system was set up the way it is.... if a city wants to go "stricter" with some laws they can...ie: make people wear a mask. Now the fining and stuff is a different story because those have to be passed by legislation/counsel/etc. BTW... in Rochester MN where they are now "requiring" masks. If you are on a property and the police are called. You will be cited for TRESPASSING... not for "not wearing a mask". See what I mean about needing to pass legislation type thing. :bop:


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## Resky

KEN W said:


> Question......How many of you approve of the way Trump is handling the virus? Is he doing what he needs to do to stop this thing. I say no.....he basically hasn't done much of anything. What should he be doing?
> Second question.....Who of you wears a mask in public to help stop this?


I'd like to turn the question around. What do you think the President should be doing and what do you base your suggestions on?

Yes, I do wear a mask in public but I know it really gives me very little protection. However if I had the virus and didn't know it at the time it would give others a lot of protection.


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## Chuck Smith

I just read on twitter..... So again dont know how true or not. But a FL Scientist was just fired for not manipulating data about COVID. Rebekah Jones is the persons name.

Again dont know much about it... so she could have been fired for making numbers look bad.... or making the numbers look good... we dont know. But something to watch out for. Also to see what "lab" or "hospital" she is working for. If this all becomes true.

Also lets see if any media talks about this?? it might have to do with what I have posted before about the "cooking" the books. But we dont know.

Like I have stated this is all becoming absurd each day I read things like this. This is why people distrust politicians, media, the whole virus issue, and other issues. Because people are all trying to be POLITICAL.... either one way or another. In a Pandemic or Crisis nobody should. We all should be trying to move forward against a common enemy... THE VIRUS. We should be trying to help fellow man to over come this and move OUR country forward. I will keep the thread updated if i hear anything more.... one way or another... ie: if this lady was supposed to make the numbers "look good" I will still report on it if I find it. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/87658428 ... of-her-own

Found an article about this...

It is kind of all over the place and people pointing fingers each way. Here is a quick take on it. BTW... she was fired in May. So who knows if things have changed for the good or better on the data being reported.

1. She was fired for not "deflating" the numbers. What she was doing was counting a person who tests positive only once for a positive test (even if they tested positive multiple times).... and she was also doing it the same for a negative test. The place she worked wanted her to inflate the "negative" tests...or use tests not per person. IE: if a person test negative 3 times it equals 3 negative reports. If a person tests positive 3 times it equals 1 positive report. They wanted it one way for posiitve tests and a different way for negative tests. GOOD FOR HER TO STAND UP AND MAKE ACCURATE DATA.

2. Jones data she is using now for her dash board isn't 100% accurate either. She is using "self reporting" and things like that. Not official numbers from Merlin and Electronic Surveillance System for the Early Notification of Community-based Epidemics or other agencies used by the state.

Here is a quote from the article and is SPOT ON...



> She also notes that the state's site doesn't appear to use the "total people tested" label accurately.
> 
> "From a definition standpoint, 'total people tested' and what it actually represents is 'total number of tests conducted.' Those are two different measures," says Prins, explaining that she has been tested - but if she were tested again, she shouldn't be counted as a separate person. She's just a person who has been tested twice.
> 
> "There's a distinction there between total number of people tested versus total number of tests carried out."


Anyways.... it shows how reporting is a huge issue across the nation. It also brings up the question on how is it getting reported in MN with the numbers I show each day? Is it just tests completed or is it a "per person" type thing? I honestly think it is tests not per person. So those numbers dont give a clear picture either. Because a person who works as a nurse could be getting tested every 5 days. So for the months of april, may, june... that is about 20 tests for 1 person. If they are all negative.. GOOD but they shouldn't be counted towards the negative tests 20 times.. .it should be just onces. Same goes for if they test positive 20 times.... is that 20 "new cases" or "cases".... we dont know.

Maybe this is why Trump took it out of the CDC hands and made it a Department of Health issue. BTW... the CDC is still getting the same info as the Department of Health... so the numbers if all are doing the same "reporting" and same "guidlines" shouldnt be different. :thumb:

Also reading as well about FL....

People are going to get tested and waiting in line. Are signed up but when they get to the front they are out of swabs or testing kits. So they leave without getting tested. Then they get notified... you are COVID POSITIVE.

Two takes from this... NEED MORE TEST KITS TO FL... Come on FEMA this is why Trump backed off your presence in other states who have a handle on it. Get to FL and help out... this is on Trump or the Feds.

Second take... The fraud going on!!!

So like normal... FL is all screwed up.


----------



## Chuck Smith

again... just read on twitter...

San Antonio had to remove 3500+ cases from the "positive" count because they were only "probable". By the CDC standards if someone takes an Antigen test and is positive it is considered "probable".

Here is a little about Antigen tests..



> On the positive side, antigen tests can be run quickly and may produce results within minutes. On the negative side, antigen tests may not detect everything or be as "sensitive." Positive results tend to be accurate, but the tests can have a higher number of false negatives.


So again we need to go thru the data. I am not blaming San Antonio but they went back and found some false negatives. How many other places need to relook at data?

Again not blaming anyone on this. The CDC stated right away that we wont know the whole scope of this for years to come once they go thru all the data again. I honestly thing it is fear is why we are getting all of these different numbers... like inflated deaths. Because if a hospital marks someone down as a "covid" death and then later it is found out that they are not. They just adjust the numbers. If they mark them down as a "non covid" death... they will never know if that person died of it or not. They are error on the side of caution big time with this. Since we all know hospitals always get sued!!! Maybe some tort reform might come of this after all for medical institutions. :thumb:

But again... the numbers we are getting now are not accurate.


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## Chuck Smith

couple of diagrams to show how the CDC is conducting.

So please question when you hear "new" cases. Might not be all that it is cracked up to be.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/cdc-a ... HG?ocid=sf



> The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) acknowledged Thursday that it is combining the results from viral and antibody COVID-19 tests when reporting the country's testing totals, despite marked differences between the tests.


Remember when i was talking about this. We need to know Antibody vs "active" cases. Because antibody means you had it... so yes it should go into the "total" cases. But shouldn't be reported as "new" or "active" cases.



> Unlike viral tests that are taken by nose swab or saliva sample, antibody tests examine a person's blood to see if their immune system has created antibodies to combat COVID-19. These tests allow doctors to see if someone has previously been exposed to the virus. As the push for widespread testing in the U.S. has strengthened, antibody tests have been widely produced, many experts have balked at saying that antibodies equate to immunity from COVID-19. Serology tests are also less accurate than PCR tests, increasing the chances for a false negative.


This goes along with what I stated about the Antigen tests.



> "The viral testing is to understand how many people are getting infected, while antibody testing is like looking in the rearview mirror. The two tests are totally different signals," Jha told The Atlantic.





> "Now that serology testing is more widely available, CDC is working to differentiate those tests from the viral tests and will report this information, differentiated by test type, publicly on our COVID Data Tracker website in the coming weeks," she said.
> 
> According to reports, several states, including Pennsylvania, Georgia, Texas and Florida, have also been combining the results of the two tests.
> 
> The combining of the tests could lead to the skewing of the overall positivity rate of the test, a measurement that is one of the benchmarks used in the reopening guidelines released by the White House and CDC.


So this is good the CDC is doing this.... but again... it shows you how the numbers are not accurate. :thumb:


----------



## Chuck Smith

Today in the House of Reps...

They are discussing the virus. A Dem Committee leader shut down the Republicans from calling a witness to the to discuss it. WHY???? They are breaking the house rules. Why is this???

I dont know who or what the witness was going to say. But maybe we should hear from them so we as a country can make informed decisions. oke: :bop:

So again... who is playing politics? you cant say republicans because we didn't hear what the witness had to say. :beer:


----------



## KEN W

Chuck Smith said:


> Today in the House of Reps...
> 
> They are discussing the virus. A Dem Committee leader shut down the Republicans from calling a witness to the to discuss it. WHY???? They are breaking the house rules. Why is this???
> 
> I dont know who or what the witness was going to say. But maybe we should hear from them so we as a country can make informed decisions. oke: :bop:
> 
> So again... who is playing politics? you cant say republicans because we didn't hear what the witness had to say. :beer:


How about this playing pure politics. :bop: :bop:

White House blocks CDC director from testifying before House panel on reopening schools. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Resky

KEN W said:


> How about this playing pure politics. :bop: :bop:
> White House blocks CDC director from testifying before House panel on reopening schools. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


Not exactly true. The panel requested for anyone from CDC, not specifically the Director to appear and testify on reopening schools. No doubt looking for mud to throw at the wall. Never mind the CDC director himself has appeared before two other panels, one in the Senate and one in the House within the last three weeks on the same subject.


----------



## KEN W

Resky said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about this playing pure politics. :bop: :bop:
> White House blocks CDC director from testifying before House panel on reopening schools. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
> 
> 
> 
> Not exactly true. The panel requested for anyone from CDC, not specifically the Director to appear and testify on reopening schools. No doubt looking for mud to throw at the wall. Never mind the CDC director himself has appeared before two other panels, one in the Senate and one in the House within the last three weeks on the same subject.
Click to expand...

House Education and Labor Chairman Bobby Scott said the testimony from CDC officials is critical to understanding how scientists would manage the reopening of US schools.
"It is alarming that the Trump administration is preventing the CDC from appearing before the Committee at a time when its expertise and guidance is so critical to the health and safety of students, parents, and educators

What is Trump afraid of????? Of course he is afraid they would say something contradicting his....Open all schools no matter what. :bop: :bop:

Democrats don't need to throw mud....Trump provides the mud. oke: oke: oke:


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## KEN W

As for wearing masks......I wear one every time I enter a business.

Wearing a mask should compare to wearing a seat belt, the gov't should fine people who don't wear one. With civic compliance we could save 1,000's of needless deaths.

If 95% of Americans wore face masks in public, it could prevent 33,000 deaths by October 1, according to the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.

"People need to know that wearing masks can reduce transmission of the virus by as much as 50%, and those who refuse are putting their lives, their families, their friends, and their communities at risk," said Dr. Christopher Murray, director of the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation.

"It's an incredibly simple, cheap, and now turning out to be effective intervention -- both for individuals (and) for communities,"

"There's no reason that every state shouldn't do what other states are starting to do, which is mandate mask use."
Other countries have had mask requirements nationwide, including Germany, the Czech Republic and Austria.


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## KEN W

The fool in the White House....."Science should not stand in the way of opening full with no mask mandate. The crisis will disappear"

That is ridiculous. :shake: :shake: :shake:

Senate REPUBLICANS are asking for more money to give to the CDC for testing and contact tracing. They are asking for $10 billion in the next stimulus package. White House is fighting this proposal......Why????? Sounds like a good idea to me. Even from the "other" party. :thumb: :thumb:

Trump advisor said....."the president doesn't ask much about the pandemic anymore because he doesn't want to be distracted by it.".....are you kidding me. :******: :******:

Time to wake up......we need a National Law requiring masks to be worn any where inside. No different than wearing a seat belt. Or using your phone in your hands when driving. But then some people don't care how many people die. :down: :down:


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## KEN W

Resky.....you asked me this....."I'd like to turn the question around. What do you think the President should be doing and what do you base your suggestions on?

Trump should make wearing face masks mandatory and it is based on the quotes above......But then Trump doesn't want to be bothered by even discussing anything about this sickness that has killed 140,000 and shows no signs of slowing down. Make face masks mandatory. You are fined if you don't.


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## Plainsman

KEN W said:


> Resky.....you asked me this....."I'd like to turn the question around. What do you think the President should be doing and what do you base your suggestions on? Why do you need someone to hold your hand? If you must let the governor hold your hand. Like sheep to many people look to momma government to solve their problems.
> America is sure turning wimp. We are not all girly boys yet.
> 
> Trump should NO, and its not his job to change diapers either.make wearing face masks mandatory and it is based on the quotes above......But then Trump doesn't want to be bothered by even discussing anything about this sickness that has killed 140,000 and shows no signs of slowing down. Make face masks mandatory. You are fined if you don't.


Do what you see fit for yourself while respecting and following local regulations. The low elevations in Montana were to hot so we headed to highed ground.


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## Resky

> House Education and Labor Chairman Bobby Scott said the testimony from CDC officials is critical to understanding how scientists would manage the reopening of US schools.


Of course he did, what else would a Pelosi flunky puppet say. Sorry but I have no faith in anything the present House Democrats say these days. Unlike some I don't put all Democrats in the same basket but the socialist Democrats presently controlling the House I simply do not trust anything they say or do.

Just so you know, I dislike and don't trust those on the extreme far right any more than those on the extreme far left. Truth is I think today's Republicans have morphed into what the JFK Democrats use to be which isn't as bad as what today's Democrats have become. I fear what this country may look like 20 years from now and kind of glad I probable won't be around as I turn 77 in a few months.

As for the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, that's nothing more than a bunch of high paid professors putting out computer model reports. They have no means to accurately make such a statement. Just like the computer model weather reports that are seldom correct. Nothing science about either.


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## Canuck

> I fear what this country may look like 20 years from now and kind of glad I probable won't be around as I turn 77 in a few months.


Resky, you sounded younger when you threatened to come after me for my comments about Trump and the USA.
I am not so nervous now. I got eight years on you and should be able to run faster than an old guy like you!! :beer:


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## Chuck Smith

> Time to wake up......we need a National Law requiring masks to be worn any where inside. No different than wearing a seat belt. Or using your phone in your hands when driving. But then some people don't care how many people die. :down: :down:


See this is a big misconception. He can't just "Make" this a law. It has to go thru the proper channels. Which is also going thru the states as well. Again this if you want people to be "fined" by no abiding by it.

So you see Trump cant do this by himself. Why wouldn't the House try and pass a law about this and then have it trickle down into the states.






You talk about seat belts and the hands free driving stuff.... those took years to get passed by the states and what not.

So again... TRUMP really cant do a thing. He should come out and say... I support wearing masks when possible, etc. But to say he should "make a law"... well he can't. :bop:


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> I fear what this country may look like 20 years from now and kind of glad I probable won't be around as I turn 77 in a few months.
> 
> 
> 
> Resky, you sounded younger when you threatened to come after me for my comments about Trump and the USA.
> I am not so nervous now. I got eight years on you and should be able to run faster than an old guy like you!! :beer:
Click to expand...

Good humor by all. Todays youth would all be offended. They wouldnt have the balls to call anyone out. They would organizd a protest and burn your house at night. When we were that age and actually angry we would have slugged it out and not held a grudge. Knives and guns like todays gang bangers never entered our heads, and you never picked on people. Anyone who pestered a smaller kid was considered a coward. Today they think we were violent, but it was a mucb safer and peacefull world. 
It will perhaps be a few days before I get cell service again. Its kind of peacefull without watching any news. I hope Obama doesnt give China the order to release another virus before I get home. :rollin:


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## Canuck

As a fairly little guy, I got out of many tough situations with a quick wit and a good sense of humor. Now it just gets me INTO trouble. :rollin:

Nice spot Plainsman. How's fishing?


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## Resky

Canuck said:


> Resky, you sounded younger when you threatened to come after me for my comments about Trump and the USA. I am not so nervous now. I got eight years on you and should be able to run faster than an old guy like you!! :beer:


True and I even have three compressed vertebrates to deal with. You wouldn't have to run faster than me, just walk faster. Have a nice day Canuck.


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## Plainsman

Fishing is terrible and luckily we found out before buying a license. We stopped in Helena and let the grandson shoot a 308 and an AR15 in 6.5 Grendel. I thought for sure he would choose the Grendel for youth deer season. I guess he is a bolt action man. So I called home and ordered a Ruger Ranch in 6.5 Grendel. My 6.5 Grendel upper Im going to advertise for $350. Its a 20 inch fluted, with riser, adjustable gas block for use with a silencer, rails on the mlock forend, push button and standard sling studs.


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## Canuck

Manitoba went 13 days with no new Covid-19 cases. We let our gaurds down and this weekend their were 18 new cases. Of these, ten were on Hutterite colonies, two had traveled to USA, and one came from the Philippines. The other cases are being contact traced to determine infection source.

Keep your head down.


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## Chuck Smith

Sorry I havent been doing my daily update on MN... but here is roughly what the past 3 days have been.

The past three days numbers were 700's, 500's and 700's.... so to make things easier I will just round them all up... So approximately 2200 new cases. But they did have 38497 new tests for those three days. So that is roughly 5.7% infection rate (again I am rounding up on all of this). Which is about the exact same infection rate the past 3 days of what the whole time period is... 5.5% rate. So nothing too dramatic but a big up tick. But again... was this because of july 4th? was this because of the protests? was this just because of the natural flow of this...ie: getting worse? We dont know for sure.

But the ICU beds for those days... 112, 119, and now 102... Other hospitalization for those days... 154, 154 175. This is swinging up... but no way near "critical" or even getting close to what they were a few months ago.

Deaths were 3,4, 9, in those three days. Not good at all but still nothing "drastic" or "anything to fear over". It wont let me go back to the first two days but today 6 out of the 9 were from an assisted living type facility. I wanna say I remember out of the 3 that none of them were in an assisted living type place and I do remember one of those were in the 0-5 year old range. So the very first "infant" death for MN that has "covid" attached to it.

Those are the numbers... sorry I didn't update the most accurate was busy and the info doesn't allow to know each day unless you look it up. Because if you look at "today" it has a small number of cases. Many of the "new" cases are from days and even weeks ago.


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## Canuck

Regardless of the daily statistics, it seems that the response to the Covid-19 virus is not working.
The virus is winning. Even Trump seems to realize that and is making a 180 degree reversal in his attitude about masks and distancing. Here in Canada, where we have tried to re-open things carefully we have seen a jump in cases and deaths. Alberta is now where they were at the peak in April. Manitoba is seeing double digit new cases every day. More people are wearing masks now than at the peak of the virus cases but I think we will see a resurgence if we don't work together to beat this. The permanent damage that the virus does to some patients lungs is scary.


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## Plainsman

> Even Trump seems to realize that and is making a 180 degree reversal in his attitude about masks and distancing.


 Thats true, he has been following the recommendation of science all along.


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## Chuck Smith

> The virus is winning. Even Trump seems to realize that and is making a 180 degree reversal in his attitude about mask


The reason why I think he is doing the more open talk about masks and mask wearing.... To kill the "mail in" voting that is being pushed or talked about. Think about it.... if "masks" are ok to have in situations when you "can't" social distance... well guess what... you can vote just need to wear a mask and stand in line like you did before. :beer: oke:


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## Chuck Smith

> it seems that the response to the Covid-19 virus is not working.
> The virus is winning.


I dont think the "virus" is winning and I think if the "response" wasn't being pushed so politically charged... and this is all sides on this. It would be a different story all together.

The "cases" keep rising. But on a daily basis we are getting told about wrong numbers. Every day you read about another institution "false" reporting or "false" positives that are getting reported. You read about people who scheduled a test and then never took it but get a response saying "you have tested positive". We also dont know how many of the tests are also ones that if you have a certain strain of the cold it pops a "positive" test. And so on and so on and so on....

What is the biggest issue is there isnt a uniform way of reporting cases. Plus there is many different tests out there. So we are not getting the full scope of the situation. That is part of the problem when Trump streamlined everything to get moving at a rapid pace. You had many different companies producing tests... well they all are a little different. You have many different labs kicking out results. So again different process for each one of them. Nothing was uniform because of everyone screaming about this. The CDC came out right away talking about how they wont know the whole scope until about 3 years from now. When they go back and comb thru the cases and results. The Death number could drop or sky rocket... we dont know.

Here is another issue... The USA monitized COVID for hospitals. Remember hospitals stopped all "elective" type surgeries and stuff. That is a hospitals money makers. So then they put a price tag on "covid" patients and a higher price tag if you move them to a ventilator. Again I am not saying hospitals took advantage of this. But like I stated earlier... Mayo clinic stated they would lose 40 BILLION when this first hit if they stayed shut down for a year. Now they have opened back up to elective surgeries so that "hit" wont be so big. They asked many of their staff to take pay cuts for a few months, plus furloughed people, and even cut jobs!! So yeah they were preparing for the worse. But we will just see on this part.

Now back to the CDC and Hospital Reporting.... we all know that if someone dies of cancer but has Covid or was tested positive for Covid... they are getting marked "covid" death. The reason why is all the damn laws or the fear of a law suit. So they mark them down like that. This is what the CDC will comb thru and get the real numbers. This is the issue.

Like I stated many times. We need to take this seriously but we are also not getting the whole truth of the matter. In the USA they are making it way too political... ON ALL SIDES. If this wasn't the case I am sure we would be hearing about a different story. Could be positive or negative... not sure because of the political circus.

Lets put it this way... The lefts screams about social distancing, masks, stay in doors, dont go to bars, need to shut down, etc. Yet they won't denounce or decry the crap happening with protests, riots, mass funeral, etc. So you can go out and spread COVID at protests against TRUMP and for BLM or for anything to make Trump look bad. But dont go out and have a drink at your local watering whole... dont go and work out at the athletic club... dont go watch a little league game... etc. that is what is making many upset.

But then you have the other side... saying it is a hoax... I aint going to wear a mask... if a store tells me to wear a mask I will make a scene and kick and scream like a kid... etc. Well again... the stores right to tell you to wear a mask while indoors is the same right you have to not wear one. Your right when you step on that property is to leave and find another store or wear a mask.

I will tell you this... come NOV 15th or so... we will be hearing a totally different story on this whole COVID thing. 1. It will be worse than we thought... or 2. It wasn't that big of a deal as it was made out to be. It wont be the status quo that we are hearing now. :beer:

BTW... Fauci just came out talking to day that in 2021 we could be getting back to original "normal".... Hmmmmmm.... oke:

He is saying it because of the vaccine. Also who helped to get this all streamlined and pushing at a rapid pace... wasn't the Dem's... oke: But like I talked about before when you push things along at a rapid pace you also need to be careful that you dont make mistakes.. like the testing reporting and test kits. :thumb:

But also like what has been stated... Fauci has some investment in vaccines... maybe that is why he is pushing that scenario... who knows. eace:


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## Chuck Smith

we are sure getting the truth...


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## Plainsman

I don't have time to read the whole thing. Crappy workmanship from roofers means I have to replace some vents today.

Anyway the wife was reading that 600,000 people who were told they had Corvid do not have it and never did. All from one testing company it sounds like. This sounds dumber by the day. What have we got here 80% of the health industry are retarded or what?


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## Chuck Smith

> Anyway the wife was reading that 600,000 people who were told they had Corvid do not have it and never did. All from one testing company it sounds like.


We will be getting more and more stories like this I believe in the future.

Now I am not calling all of these testing facilities or hospitals... "morons". They are in a dang if you do and dang if you dont situation. Like I mentioned the issue was when the hospitals all stopped doing elective surgeries and were getting ready for the worse. Then it never happened. So the goverment made it that if a patient is COVID positive you got EXTRA money... then if they went on a ventilator... you got extra money. So....this might make people "fudge" numbers. Then lets look at TORT laws... and how anyone wants to sue anything medical... be it testing facilities, hospitals, treatment facilities, etc. So to be on the "safe" side and to steer clear of litigation... it is better to say people have it to be safe than sorry later. Hence you are hearing stories of people who are terminal with cancer and pass away they are marked COVID because they did test positive for COVID. They dont want litigation to possible come back. The one good thing that "could" happen if washington gets its heads out of its rear ends... is tort reform so we dont have this mis-information getting spread around. But again 90% of the people in congress were or are lawyers. So they wont eat there own.. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

So updated numbers in MN....

Yesterday it was reported something like 877 or so "new cases". and the testing was 16,296... so 5.4% infection rate... which is creeping up from the ones previous of in the 3-4% range. We need to keep a look on this. ICU and Hospitals were 115 in the icu and 158 in the hospital... So good numbers. But we all know that a spike could happen two weeks from now since cases have been in the 700+ the past 4-5 days. But still good numbers. 3 deaths.

Todays numbers are 650 "new cases" and 13,542 tests so a 4.8% infection rate... again higher than the 3-4% that was a holding steady for a month or better. We need this to drop. The ICU 126 and Hospital is 131. 2 deaths...

So the now "no longer needs" quarenteen is at 45,198 out of 51,803. Which is at an 87.2% rate. This isn't including people who have died. If we include those numbers....We are at a 90.3% rate of people who tested and dont need to be quarenteened.

total Tests 970,726. MN will be over a million tests by the end of this week. BTW.. our total "infection" rate is at 5.3%. But like I mentioned we need the daily to be below this number and keep dropping.

Also if you noticed... the CDC came out saying you only need to be isolated for 10 days now... not 14!

Things are ever changing about COVID as we learn more and more new things daily about it. We will see if the "mask" order will help with numbers dropping or not. But we wont know that until 2 weeks pass. I will do a recap of "monthly" numbers on friday to just do a quick comparison. So this way we know how many of the "new" cases are back in June or were they more in July.


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.facebook.com/14926736543693 ... 47315/?d=n

This is a video talking about how DEATHS are inflated. Watch this video..... you dont need facebook to watch this.

This is about deaths in MN!! So i will have to see how they switch the reporting of deaths. But it talks about how COVID is listed on a death certificate but no test was every conducted. It could change 1 death or 1000... we dont know. But something to talk about.

This is a good video to listen too. :thumb:

EDIT: Right now on the website it lists the "Probable" deaths but no test has been conducted at 40. We will see how this number rises or lowers in the next few weeks.

example if in the next week MN has a total of 10 deaths and the 40 jumps to 60... we know they are still digging thru all of the death certificates. If it stays at 40.. then we know they possibly combed thru all of them. Just something to keep an eye on.

Again it just shows you that the accuracy of information isn't present thru out the USA on this situation. :bop:

Here is a quick example.... MN has 1576 deaths and as of now 40 are "probable"... that is roughly 2.5% mistake. If you take 2.5% of the 1500000 or so deaths in the USA that is 3750 people are "probable"... again not a huge amount change but still not accurate. Who knows if other states are at the 2.5% or less or more. We dont know.... that is a huge issue on the importance of false information. Again I will keep looking to see if the "probable" deaths increase or decrease at a consistent rate or not. But it is something to look at when we discuss COVID.


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## Plainsman

A dozen doctor put out a video about using hydroxychoroquin. One doctor treated 350 patients and lost none. Yet the liberals dont want anyone using it. Liberal gov have banned it. I guess if you can murder the unborn you can let a million old people die if it hurts Trump.

On another note the killing in the streets continues. A new record when a ten month old was shot. However the liberals deny that crime is up or that the protests are violent. Again how many will they let die to promote their agenda?

I cant believe how low this nation has sunk, but theniberals have been numbing the public to death and all kinds of disgusting behavior for years.


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## dakotashooter2

The annual death rate in the US is 2.83 million for all causes. While 140,000-150,000 deaths due to corona sounds like a lot its only 5% of total deaths. I'm not trying to discount the number of deaths from corona but most people have no idea how many people die each year making the number sound huge to them.


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## Plainsman

The virus isn't even a close second to the leading cause of death in this country which is stupidity. Drugs = stupidity, alcohol to the point of liver sclerosis = stupidity, poor driving practices = stupidity, eating until you weigh 500 lb = stupidity, etc.


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## Chuck Smith

dakota....

Correct. I am like you not trying to down play or discount the deaths that are happening. It is tragic. But we need to look at the big picture... the death rate from this "pandemic" even with possible inflated numbers isn't as bad as auto deaths, other illness deaths, etc. It is being made political by everyone... that is the issue I have and that we are not getting accurate info at all by everyone.

BTW...

here is clip to watch...






Basically it is Pelosi allowing for bs law suits to happen. With all the "mandates" by govenors, mayors, etc. They have things inline so you can go after businesses if they dont comply...ie: fines and what not. Now she doesn't want to give businesses protection if someone pushes a BS lawsuit. Lets put it this way... Cuomo and his mandate to keep from nursing homes getting sued... just went out the window by what Pelosi is stating. BTW... insurance doesn't pay for this type of thing. So if you think they are only going after the "insurance companies" of the business.... NOPE!!! They cant cover an "invisible" enemy. If lawsuit happen it will close down businesses. :bop:

Like what is mentioned in the video. All a person has to do if they get covid... make a list of the places you went to....and then give it to a lawyer and go down the list and name those places in the lawsuit. It is sad that she doesn't want to give protection to small business.

But like I talked about before with TORT reform.... 95% or more of washington are or were lawyers. They dont want to take away from other lawyers making money.... even though it could cripple others. Which is BS. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

MN Updated numbers....

Today 480 new cases, 4 deaths (3 from assisted care facilities), 9081 tests... 5.3 infection rate. Still needs to drop.

ICU 138 and other hospitalization is 156... so those numbers increased. But like we know these numbers lag behind. Also still not near where they were in june... 250's ICU and 300's other. So the numbers are still really good.

88% no longer need isolation (this is not including any deaths)... which is 45,987 people out of 52,281 cases. 1580 deaths with 1210 coming from assisted care facilites or group homes. The number of "probable" covid deaths is still at 40. Lets hope this number doesn't change so we get accurate reporting. But only time will tell.

MN has done 979,988 tests. So infection rate is at a 5.3% total infection rate. Like mentioned above we need the daily rate to keep being below the "total" rate so we can keep having decreasing numbers.

Stay safe and make the correct choices for you and your families. :thumb:


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## Plainsman

Like the news media Twitter, Google, and Facebook are muzzling conservative voices. A very good video my wife found on Facebook has been removed. They said it wasn't true and violated their policies. It's a dozen front line doctors who are treating patients very successfully with hydrochrloroquin. Then we have pharmaceuticals refusing to release it to doctors. That makes it look like they are willing to trade death for profit just like the democrat party is willing to trade death for political power.


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## Canuck

C'mon Plainsman you are smarter than that. The video you refer to was tweeted or re-tweeted by Trump but it was removed from all forums for being misleading. the wonderful Dr. you refer to said masks do not work and hydroxychloroguin or whatever, does work. Trump liked that. She's smart. Okay. She also said the government is making a vaccine and pills from the blood of aliens. She says the pills will make people reject religion. Be careful when you listen to Trump's "advice". Really Plainsman. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> C'mon Plainsman you are smarter than that. The video you refer to was tweeted or re-tweeted by Trump but it was removed from all forums for being misleading. the wonderful Dr. you refer to said masks do not work and hydroxychloroguin or whatever, does work. Trump liked that. She's smart. Okay. She also said the government is making a vaccine and pills from the blood of aliens. She says the pills will make people reject religion. Be careful when you listen to Trump's "advice". Really Plainsman. :eyeroll:


I am talking about a group of doctors now about two dozen. This was on Breitbart before Trump tweeted it. Yes it was taken down and Twitter said it was false. No surprise there since Twitter, Google, and Facebook are in the democrat pocket. This has all gone on long enough that all of us know someone personally that had Hydroxychloroquine save their lives. Even at one time Kens darling Amy Klobuchar said Hydroxychloroquin saved her husbands life.
Doesnt Hydroxychloroquine look political to you when its democrate governors that have banned it? Isnt something wrong when doctors want it, but it is withheld? I see doctor Oz is still pushing for it.

Edit: I was talking to a person who said the left is really trying to destroy a blackbwoman in that group claiming what you said about aliens. She invited people to examine her record. The left thiks they own black people. Biden told a black fellow that if he didnt vote for him he wasnt black enough. That and the attack on this woman really is racist. Other doctors in the group asked why are they attacking a long stsnding drug. Another doctor not connected estimates that if they released Hydrachoraquin it woud save up to 70,000 lives. Why are doctors using it in Europe and other advanced countries? Come on Canuck out aside your Trump hate, people dont need to die for agendas like yours.

Edit: Just now seen a graph on FOX that showed more nations used hydrochloroquin than those that did not and all those countries had much more success than countries not using or restricting use.

Edit: The left keeps saying they need double blind studies. Blind is the key word because if they were not blind they wohkd see those studies have already been done. Start thinking and dont just be a parrot.

Edit:The lying left has done a great diservice to people that now dont trust taking a vaccine if or when they get it. If they have a vaccine next month I think Ill pass.

Be careful when you listdn to the left Canuck. Truth and decency they left behind a long time ago. oke:


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## Resky

You can watch that video here. Very interesting.

https://www.oann.com/hydroxychloroquine/


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## Canuck

Trump is quite gullible and susceptible to this type of person and their story...

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/donald-trump-covid-19-drug-245297

You are all falling for the hydro chloroquine hoax...use the science... the real science not the voodoo stuff.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stell...-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine

Ladies and Gentlemen...your President of the United States...


----------



## Canuck

Trump is quite gullible and susceptible to this type of person and their story...

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/donald-trump-covid-19-drug-245297

You are all falling for the hydro chloroquine hoax...use the science... the real science not the voodoo stuff.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/stell...-alien-dna-demon-sperm-and-hydroxychloroquine

Ladies and Gentlemen...your President of the United States...


----------



## Plainsman

Thanks Resky I couldnt find that video. Twitter and their allies on the left want the American people in the dark. Death to them is justifiable.
The black lady in the background at the beginning of the video is the one they are trying to destroy. They cant let blacks step out of line. Politically they think they own them just like they physically owned them in the past. When democrats say they are not prejudice they speak the truth because if they could they would enslave the entire human race through communism.



> Trump is quite gullible and susceptible to this type of person and their story...


 Not any more gullible than you just posting the story you did. oke: They found one doctor, maybe, out of many to destroy if possible for their political game, and it was the black lady. Appealing to their racist friends I guess.


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## Canuck

Trump is promoting a crackpot. That is how he is hoping to help the American people. It is what he does.
Trump did not discuss Russia's use of bounties to push the Taliban to kill Armerican soldiers when he chatted with his buddy Putin. That is not important to Trump. Why? Putin has the goods on the Donald and Trump is his puppet.
Take your medical advice from Dr. Navarro if you like.
I give up.


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## Plainsman

Canuck said:


> Trump is promoting a crackpot. That is how he is hoping to help the American people. It is what he does.
> Trump did not discuss Russia's use of bounties to push the Taliban to kill Armerican soldiers when he chatted with his buddy Putin. That is not important to Trump. Why? Putin has the goods on the Donald and Trump is his puppet.
> Take your medical advice from Dr. Navarro if you like.
> I give up.


 I can't believe the crap you think is true. There are many doctors in the group that are now called Front Line Doctors. Your simply picking a fantasy of the left designed to destroy a black woman that dares speak against her masters. 
Russia paying bounties has not been proven, and our intelligence agencies didn't pass that information to the president because they didn't think it was credible. Before you whine that the president should have known the intelligence agencies make these decisions every day. If anything is even close to credible then do let the president know. So this had to be another wild story for them to pass it off is not credible. 
The liberals keep talking about Putin has the goods on Trump, but no other president has been as hard on Russia. Even a little tiny brain cell that is still functioning would say the evidence points the other way. 
As far as Dr. Navarrow is he or she a medical doctor? I have not given attention to names. If I needed surgery etc I would sure choose him or her before you if they are a medical doctor. Your not a surgeon are you? Speaking of gullible -------- oke: This is no different than all the stories posted during the impeachment that turned our wrong. So many that I lost count, and all wrong. Now were doing it again, but over the corvid pandemic. Next you will tell us it was aliens that were friends of Trump who brought the virus from planet X. Wild imagination. That's the internet for you, there is all kinds of wild third grade fairy tales out there, and most of your post falls in that category. Get over the TDS.

Here is how I look at these stories as opposed to how twitter handles it. Twitter don't want the truth out so they ban people, or videos. I'm always reminded of the line Yul Brynner had as Pharaoh in the movie "the Ten Commandments". Instead of executing Moses (Charlton Heston) he said "let him rave on that the world may know him mad". He had Moses Derangement Syndrome.


----------



## Canuck

Dr. Navarro is an economist, not a medical Doctor.
Trump is a phony, not a President.
The USA is so divided it is heading into a dark and scary place.
History will tell the story.

Plainsman, while you and I can get along on a forum like this, I think perhaps you are too much of a zealot and I am too much of a non-believer for us to have any kind of a meaningful discussion.

Like I said, I give up.

The world waits with bated breath to see what the people of the USA will do come this November.


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## Plainsman

> Plainsman, while you and I can get along on a forum like this, I think perhaps you are too much of a zealot and I am too much of a non-believer for us to have any kind of a meaningful discussion.


  And here I was thinking you were the zealot. :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith

I heard the stories about the Doctor and the Video that was banned.

She talked about a very small pool of people. it was something like 360 or something. BUT IT WORKED. Just like what plainsman stated about Senator Klobachaur and dont forget the rep in Michigan who came out and stated they took the drug too and it helped them.

Here is the thing you need to look at... THE MONEY TRAIL..... Big Pharma is pushing hard for the vaccine. Trump already made a deal with Pfizer or whom ever to buy the vaccine. So of course they dont want the drug to work... they want to push the vaccine to make money. Just like why do you think there hasn't been Tort reform for medical malpractice suits... because washington is full of lawyers and they get donations from lawyers. Why do you think that big pharma isn't happy with the EO that Trump signed about drug pricing... .they know that their pockets will become less full. We still need to see what this EO is about and how much it does help.

Anyways... the myth that people are "dying" from the drug was false. So just like with any illness wouldn't you want your doctor to use all that is in their power to help you. Even if it was just something they called magic beans. I know I would. :bop:

That is what is scary is people are making this political when let the doctors do what doctors do.... heal people!!!


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## dakotashooter2

I looked up stats for ND.. We have an average of 4600 deaths per year (all causes last 5 years) in this state. Currently corona accounts for 100 or 2.1% of those deaths. Deaths from the flu average 147 per year (3.1%). Since it is primarily elderly with underlying health issues that are dying from this there is probably some overlap into deaths that would have occurred this year anyway. Maybe 10 or 20% ? My point is that while 100 deaths may sound like a lot, statistically it is not. Your average person has no idea of how many people die each day, week, month or year so 100 sounds like a lot. I'm not trying to diminish these deaths but statistically they are a drop in the bucket. Honestly the number of hospitalizations is far more concerning than the number of deaths. That number is many times that of flu hospitalizations but then it appears the recovery rate of those hospitalized for covid is actually better than those hospitalized for the flu.

FWIW I posted something similar on the IN Forum on facebook and it was removed. I guess they cant handle the truth.


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## Canuck

> And here I was thinking you were the zealot. :rollin:


Ha Ha! Okay you have a sense of humor so we could get along for a while. Just don't start thinking we could be best friends or anything!!


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## Chuck Smith

Daily MN Update....

681 "new" cases. 13,481 have been tests. That is a rate of infection of 5.05%.... still needs to drop! But still good compared to other states and what was going on in june. 9 New deaths with 7 coming from assisted care type facilities. ICU 143 and hospitalizatoin is at 167. Both have gone up... and needs to be monitored. But still good compared to the numbers in june.

Total over all rate of infection....is at a 5.33% for the whole time period. MN had completed 993,091 tests. Will be over a million tests odds are by tomorrow. :thumb:

The "probable" death number is still at 40. Which is good. But I will keep monitoring to see if that changes significantly or not.

Stay safe and do what you think is good for you and your family. :beer:


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## Plainsman

> Just don't start thinking we could be best friends or anything!!


  eace:


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## Resky

Canuck said:


> Trump is quite gullible and susceptible to this type of person and their story...
> You are all falling for the hydro chloroquine hoax...use the science... the real science not the voodoo stuff.


If this wasn't so stupid I would probable want to laugh but it really makes one want to cry. You find a internet hack site in the UK called Political Joe with a hack guy named Kinsella that pens garbage with no support to back up his BS and you call it the truth.

The Black woman in the video, which you probable didn't watch, is Dr. Stella Immamuel at a Houston Texas hospital. Prior to coming to the US she worked in Nigeria treating Malaria patients. She has treated over 300+ patients in Houston with hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine and almost all had underlining conditions such as diabetes, Asma, COPD, and all have recovered. Yet you take the word of a hack over this doctor who is on the front line daily. Where is your link proving the hack garbage about alien dna and bad dreams? Even the DAILY News is making that claim but don' back it up with proof.

Yep, to sad to even laugh it off.


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## Plainsman

> use the science... the real science not the voodoo stuff.


 Please show me the peer reviewed publication. :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith

> use the science... the real science not the voodoo stuff.


Then ask the same people... How many genders does SCIENCE say their is?

But back to covid.... the thing with this is that it came on very fast and people didn't have a clue about it. So everyone went to a dramatic end and conclusion on it. As we keep finding more and more about this we are getting better data and info on it. THAT IS IF THEY WANT TO SHARE IT OR NOT. Like I mentioned... Come mid November we will know even more about this. It will be either "not as bad" or the other extreme... we are screwed... LOL. But that is the sad part about this virus is that people made it political and that is where it will stay until the election is over.

BTW... like I mentioned before... Look at some of the stuff coming out. No longer need 14 days locked away... 10 is fine. The whole hydroxychloriquine.... again this is debated on all ends.... BUT CNN said in a tweet that it is working in some patients. :thumb: ... then the MASKS... remember Fauci at the begining said about masks... and now masks... and then some others...NO MASKS.. etc. Then the filter systems being developed for office buildings... etc. Remember they said we would be lucky to have a vaccine by this time next year... now it is looking we could have one before christmas... etc. Things are moving at a rapid pace and new data and info is being learned about this virus. So to say...FOLLOW THE SCIENCE... the science is ever changing about this virus. :bop:


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## Canuck

Resky,
Have a look at her Facebook page. She gives her bio much as you say. Dig deeper and you see she has started a church and her sermons state the endometriosis is the result of having sex dreams involving aliens and that the government has invented a pill that causes people to reject religion. Someone must have slipped me one of those. 
That is not the media, but her own Facebook page. I can see why Trump spoke so highly of her.


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## Resky

Canuck said:


> Resky,
> Have a look at her Facebook page. She gives her bio much as you say. Dig deeper and you see she has started a church and her sermons state the endometriosis is the result of having sex dreams involving aliens and that the government has invented a pill that causes people to reject religion. Someone must have slipped me one of those.
> That is not the media, but her own Facebook page. I can see why Trump spoke so highly of her.


Sorry, I don't have a Facebook or Twitter account and never intend to. But if you do, then why not just copy and paste some of her talks to back up the claim? If they even exists. Oh wait, since they shut down her account you can't.


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## Canuck

You do not "need" Facebook to look at her page. She is happy to put it out there for all the world to see.
Kind of like Trump and his Twits or Tweets or what ever they are called. Either way he uses them to run the country.

News > World > Americas > US politics

Trump defends doctor who claimed medicine is made from alien DNA and walks out of briefing mid question
'I thought she was very impressive'

Griffin ConnollyWashington
6 hours ago 
30 comments

Donald Trump doubled down on his decision to retweet a video of Houston doctor Stella Immanuel in which Ms Immanuel touts the effectiveness of hydroxychloroquine in treating patients of Covid-19 and dismisses masks as unnecessary in stopping its spread.

In the past, Ms Immanuel has made several dubious medical claims, including the harmful effects of having sexual relations with demons and witches while dreaming, the alleged use of alien DNA in various medicines, and the production of a vaccine to inoculate people against being religious.

"I can tell you this: She was on air, along with many other doctors -they were big fans of hydroxychloroquine, and I thought she was very impressive," Mr Trump told reporters of Ms Immanuel at a briefing on the coronavirus pandemic on Tuesday.


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## Resky

Canuck said:


> You do not "need" Facebook to look at her page.


One either has to have a account or create one to see her page. As far as her type of religion which I think is silly as I do a lot of religions it has nothing to do with her ability as a doctor and her treatment of covid-19 patients. Your repeated posts of the same garbage picked up from AP and others such as Roll Call proves nothing. Nothing more than the media and people like you searching for mud to throw at the President. You're wasting your time as none of it sticks. uke:

Truth is I'm wasting my time reading and replying to this crap. oke:


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## Canuck

> Truth is I'm wasting my time reading and replying to this crap. oke:


There! Now you're getting it. Only 356,457,935 more to go.


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## Resky

Canuck said:


> Truth is I'm wasting my time reading and replying to this crap. oke:
> 
> 
> 
> There! Now you're getting it. Only 356,457,935 more to go.
Click to expand...

 :rollin: Even that went right over your head. The crap I speak about is your crap. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman

Dr Steven Smith infectiouse disease specislist, and --- missed the name, but a proffesor of medicine both say Hydfoxychloriquin is affective in treating corvid.

I dont care about my doctors lersonal life, Im concerned they can solve my health probldms. Canuck if your dhing of disease X and someone who believes in leprechauns can cure you but a doctor who agrees with you on every thought you have knows nothing of disease X which one will you go to? If you have five days to live which will you go to?


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## Canuck

> Even that went right over your head. The crap I speak about is your crap.


You are the one missing the point. This story was published in every rag newspaper and was shown on every television channel all day. THAT is the waste of all of our time.

Years ago USA politics had a role on the world stage. Now the USA is the "stage" and the world watches aghast as the story unfolds.

Please, please, please make the USA great again.


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## Chuck Smith

> Trump defends doctor who claimed medicine is made from alien DNA and walks out of briefing mid question
> 'I thought she was very impressive'


He talked about other doctors as well. ALL OF THEM STANDING THERE. This lady was just the most vocal. Also like I mentioned her sample size was small... in the 300's... but all responded well and the drug worked. She also used the drug before to treat malaria. So she knows what she is talking about. But yes she had some whacked out things she stated.

Now on the "walk out".... he didn't in mid question about "aliens"... he walked out because the reporter kepts screaming stuff at him after he answered questions and more and more reporters were "reasking" the same questions and so forth. that is why he walked out.

It is funny try to watch the whole presser and you will see how big of fools many of these reporters are. They ask the same question another reporter just asked. I too would walk away. Even if you say... I already answered that... they keep asking it anyways.

Just like the judiciary committees questioning of Barr... it was horrific to watch adults act like this. You thought the Kavanaugh hearing was a joke... this was worse. They would ask a question and when Barr would try to answer they talked over him and wouldn't let him answer. One Representative (cant remember who it was) asked him a question as he was answering she goes... It was a yes or no question... when infact it wasn't a yes or no question. She just wanted to grandstand. It was horrible. :bop:

I will even say this about that judiciary committee hearing everyone was grandstanding. Rep Jordan did it by showing that video... which I think was good but he did it to show up others. Now granted the video basically killed the narrative that things in Portland are "peaceful". WHich that is what the committee wanted to try and lie about. But it was grandstanding none the less. :bop:


----------



## Chuck Smith

Just wait you will see on the news soon... MN will be a "hot bed" spot... but we still are not at the numbers we had in May. But again... numbers are increasing slightly from June.

745 "new" cases... With 14,821 new test results...that is an infection rate of 5.02%... needs to be lower!!! But still lower than the average of the whole time period. 5 new deaths with 4 of them coming from group/assisted type of facilities. ICU is at 141 and Hospitalization is at 157 both went down which is good. This number has been pretty steady the month of July... slight increases but then falls back down. Again no where near the 250+ ICU's in june that we had. BTW... the total "probable" deaths is still at 40 which is good. Maybe MN was one that wasn't fudging numbers one way or the other. :beer:

Everyone stay safe and make decisions for yourself and family.

tommorrow I will do a retally of monthly totals to see if they changed or not.

Edit:

Also remember testing has sky rocketed and back in May the only people who could get tested were ones who showed a certain number of signs...ie: fever, cough, etc. Now anyone can get tested. So a broader net has been cast and catching more than before.... and the numbers are still down from MAY.

It will be interesting what the Govenor has to say today. oke:

Another edit: Just noticed on the MN website... it has a new stat... people tested... Which is 820,817. They also changed some of the "extra info" about the positive cases are only getting counted as one. So I will have to redo some stuff. IE: MN infection rate for the whole time period is 6.54% not the 5.4% or so I have been reporting. So this makes the increase not seem so dramatic. :bop: Or a SPIKE. it is more of just a "flare" up. ALso take into consideration what has been going on in MN... riots, protests, etc. Plus the "re-opening of things" which will naturally show an increase. Just as long as it doesn't SKY ROCKET. So again... MN seems on a good track. But it will be interesting what the Gov says today. I know it will focus on school openings and fall sports for schools. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

Daily update of MN....779 "new" cases. 16,660 tests.... That is an infection rate of 4.68%. So even though case number increased infection rate decreased. WHICH IS GREAT. 6 deaths with 4 coming from assisted care facilities. One death was a 20-29 year old otherwise other 3 were all over 70 years old. ICU is at 151 and hospitalization is at 161. Still good numbers but did increase. Again nothing like the 250's we did see. So not getting OVER CROWDED at all. Probable deaths still at 40. :thumb:

Also the number of "patients" tested is now at 834,354... that is up 13,537. So of the 16,660 people being tested 13,537 are new....and 3,123 are people who are getting tested again.

Now "monthly" totals.... so please look how things changed from when I reported in June and July....



> April 1 - April 30
> 
> - 59,627 Tests done
> - 7,182 positive cases
> - 12% infection rate
> - 331 Deaths
> - 932 Needed Hospitalization of those 326 in ICU Beds
> - 13% Hospitalization rate
> 
> May 1 - May 31
> 
> - 195,008 tests completed
> - 18,267 positive cases
> - 9.4% infection rate
> - 696 Deaths
> - 2003 Needed Hospitalization of those 613 needed ICU Beds
> - 11% Hospitalization rate
> 
> June 1 - June 30
> **** As of now because it has only been one day into July these numbers could change because of slower in test reporting****
> 
> - 340,620 Tests completed
> - 10,293 positive cases
> - Infection rate of 3%
> - 402 Deaths (this number is accurate and not lagging because of testing)
> - 1,007 Needed Hospitalization of those 287 needed ICU Beds (this number is accurate and will not change because of testing)
> - 10% Hospitalization rate
> 
> So some of the numbers have changed.... even back in April... .which is interesting... But here are the new numbers.
> 
> April 1 - April 30
> 
> - 59,629 Tests completed
> - 7,240 positive cases
> - infection rate of 12.14%
> 
> May 1 - May 31
> 
> - 201,896 Tests completed
> - 18,268 positive cases
> - infection rate of 9.04%
> 
> June 1 - June 30
> 
> - 333,542 tests completed (yes this went down some how??)
> - 11,616 positive cases
> - infection rate of 3.48%
> 
> The rest of the data all stayed the same from what is quoted from my earlier post.


Now the numbers as of 07/30/2020... the July 31 numbers will be out tomorrow.

April 1- April 30
- 59,625 Tests Competed (this decreased)
- 7,239 Positive Cases (this decreased)
- 12.14% Infection Rate

May 1 - May 31
- 202,016 Tests completed (this increased)
- 18,280 positive cases (this increased)
- 9.05% infection rate

June 1 - June 30
- 333,533 Tests Completed (this decreased)
- 12,342 Positive cases (this increased by 726)
- 3.70% Infection Rate

July 1 - July 30 
- 407,890 Tests completed
- 16,325 positive cases
- 4.00% infection rate
- 159 Deaths
- 1,101 Needed hospitalization and of those 252 needed ICU beds.
- 6.74% Hospitalization rate

So when you see numbers being reported about "New" cases it could be back in April, May, or June... Now the infection rate ticket up a little but deaths and Hospitalization down... Which is all good. Also testing increased by over 74,000 and we have one more day to get those numbers included... So could be up to almost 90,000 more tests than the month before. Which is great.

Again just take this data and do with it what you wish to make yourself an informed decision.


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## Chuck Smith

> July 1 - July 30
> - 407,890 Tests completed
> - 16,325 positive cases
> - 4.00% infection rate


Since I posted those numbers on Friday... .this is what has changed...

July 1- July 31
- 422,828 Tests Completed
- 18,348 positive cases
- Infection Rate of 4.34%

So things went up and like my data has shown... this number will change even 2 months from now it total cases and test completed. That number keeps changing. But the infection rate is pretty close each time. :thumb:

Anyways.... todays numbers

622 "new cases" with 15870 tests... that is an infection rate of 3.91%. Total number of tests is 1,070,925... with 872,004 total people being tested with 56,560 total cases.. Which depends on how you want to do it... but total tests verses positive cases is 56,860 / 1,070,925 is an infection rate of 5.28% infection rate. But if you go total people tested / positive cases... you get an infection rate of 6.49%. So either way... our last month and daily update is less than what the total infection rate was during the whole time period. WHICH IS GOOD... again take the info as you will and make good decisions that best fit you and your loved ones.

Edit:

Should have had this in the other "monthly" type thread...

But in MN as of Aug 3, 2020. There has been 1616 deaths. Of those deaths 990 are people over age of 80. That is 61.26%... if you move to deaths of people who are 70+ that number rises to 1298... which is 80.32%. So it shows you the age groups who need to be protected. With the average life expectancy in the USA at about 80. Again I am not trying to down play this because I have lots of family members in the "HIGH RISK" age grouping. But just getting facts out there for people. This shows who should be protected and take extra precautions. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/0 ... ingbuttons

another story from FL....



> Autopsy Shows Young Florida Nurse Died from Kidney Infection - Never Had Coronavirus


Just saying we are getting too many of these stories that are first reported coming back FALSE.

Like I have been telling everyone.... wait until after the election.... we will be hearing a different tune about the Virus. LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR.... It will go one way or the other... it will be worse or way better than what is getting reported now. We wont be hearing the same tune. The media, elected leaders, etc are making this way too political and not getting WE THE PEOPLE the correct info. Just like when Dr. Fauci was testifying. He couldn't come out and say.... protesting COULD spread the virus and to take precautions. He couldn't say that because it was political to go against Protests. Yet he has come out and stated... DONT GO TO CHURCH. Then you see in some states you will get ticketed, churches could get shut down, etc...if they worship. The sad thing is both PROTESTS and CHURCH are protected under the exact same admendment... the 1st!! :bop:

See how everything is so dang political. :bop: Just give the people accurate info so they can make decisions for themselves.


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## Chuck Smith

https://twitter.com/DeAngelisCorey/stat ... 6777649153

I found this funny with exactly what I talked about with how we will get different INFO right after the elections....

I also understand what they mean by 1st term is over... ie: After the first quarter/semester/trimester of the school year... they can come back in class. Which might mean... the schools got all set up, precautions in place, etc. Which I can agree with and understand. But it is funny it is right after the election... :thumb: :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith

Little more about MN... what the projections were and where we are actually at....

I will also add in.... I will to this day argue with my very right leaning friends that Walz did a good job in the beginning. But now that more and more data is coming out and available. He needs to switch his stance. But again... he is in a damned if you do and a damned if you don't situation. But in his early talks it was all about "Flattening the Curve"... well that happened and now people are ready for it. So loosen the strings a little.


----------



## Chuck Smith

BTW...yesterday I saw they are saying MN is a "flair up"... when if you look at my data... it isn't that. Yes cases are increasing but the infection rate is still down. Well until today....First time the infection daily rate was over 7% since the start of this.

606 "new cases" with 8060 tests... that is 7.52% rate of infection. 4 deaths with 2 being in an assisted living type facility. 878,111 "people tested" and 1,078,695 total tests completed. So again.. those are great testing numbers. In the ICU 159 and other hospitalized are 169. So again... good numbers. :bop:

But need to keep up looking at everything... and testing needs to get back up into the 10,000+ a day.

Today is some big news in MN... the State High School league is voting to see what they do with fall sports. Rumblings are to start as normal on Aug 17th... or Cancel it all... or Start Sept 7th... and just shorten the regular seasons... and I cant remember what I read about the possible 4th option. But will find out soon.

This is important for people in ND... because if there isn't fall sports... LOOK OUT COME MEA for MN, WI, etc. You thought you saw an influx last year. Imagine if they all have "distance" learning and no sports. They kids can just use a "hotspot" and be in ND.


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## Chuck Smith

MN Update...

629 "new cases", 11,720 tested which is an infection rate of 5.37%. 152 in ICU care and 153 other hospitalization. 9 deaths with 4 coming from care facilities. So infection rate and ICU stuff is all good numbers.

The "probable" deaths went up to 41. So who knows if they are confirmed or not. But glad that number isn't going up significantly because that means were are being lied too.

887,623 people tested. With 1,090,303 total tests done.



> July 1- July 31
> - 422,828 Tests Completed
> - 18,348 positive cases
> - Infection Rate of 4.34%


An update of these numbers....

- 422,605 tests completed (funny how this always goes down???)
- 19,060 positive cases
- infection rate of 4.5%



> June 1 - June 30
> - 333,533 Tests Completed (this decreased)
> - 12,342 Positive cases (this increased by 726)
> - 3.70% Infection Rate


- 340,328 tests completed... THIS WENT UP??? 
- 11,711 positive cases... this decrease???
- Infection rate of 3.44%

So what is going on with June numbers.... for three times I have checked they keep changing??? Up, down, up, down.... :******: :******:

Again how can people and elected officials make accurate decisions when numbers keep changing. The infection rate is staying about the same. But this just shows you it is hard to make decisions because things keep changing and we are not getting the full scope of the issue. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

MN Numbers for tody....

867 "new cases" with 14,940 tests completed. That is 5.8% infection rate. Not good but not bad either. We need this to drop!!!

153 in ICU and 166 other hospitalizations. So this is good. Deaths was 7 with 3 being in an assisted care facility.

Now 899,480 people have been tested with 1,105,094 tests completed in the state of MN. WHICH IS GREAT!!!

*Ok now here is something I will start to question the data and are we getting correct numbers.*

If you take what I posted yesterday on tests being completed (1,090,303) and subtract that from what I just posted about tests completed....1,105,094... you get 14,791 tests. yet on the website it states that 14,940 tests were completed?? It shows 759 were completed and reported by the MDH and another 14,181 by external labs.... so that is 14,940 tests... yet the other number reported is different??? Why is this...

Some might say that why would 149 sample matter. Well that is almost 9 new cases (149 x 5.8% infection rate). This is why it matters...

Because in just a few short weeks the Schools will need accurate data to see how they can move forward. MN plan is based off of cases per 10,000 population for counties if they can reopen or how they want to reopen. (full open, hybrid type with distance learning and re open, or all distance learning) So if we dont get accurate data how can they make informed decisions??? Those 9 cases could be from a certain county and that would or could change how the school opens or doesn't open!

This is my issue all along on this. AND I AM GETTING THIS DIRECTLY FROM THE MN DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH!!!

EDIT:

This is were you can see how your county in MN is for the cases per 10,000. And the "school" possible plans available. People please stay informed and plan accordingly. :thumb:

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... school.pdf


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## Chuck Smith

You know what one of the biggest hold ups now with the New Corona Bill....

It is that the Republicans dont want businesses to beable to get sued. It is a liability protection. The Dem's want that removed.

So.... let me just break this down for you. The Dem's want trial lawyers to go after businesses or places for COVID. So if you come into my place of work. Get covid or it can be tracked that you got it at my place. You can SUE. Here is the kicker.... INSURANCE DOESN'T COVER THIS. So you would be going after me personally. So you would end up bankrupting me or any business owner. Now some will say... well Walmart has deep pockets or even Mc D's. Well lots of those are franchised.. .so you are going after the owner not the Corporation!!

So who again is working for the people... NOT THE DEM's. They just want to make lawyers rich. Because just wait when the smoke clears on all of this... the lawsuits. How about lawsuits against... SCHOOLS... again there is no insurance coverage for this. So they want to bankrupt schools.... then guess what will happen to taxes!!!

Anyways.... something to think about.


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## Chuck Smith

MN Daily numbers....

556 "new cases" out of 15,924 tests completed 3.49% infection rate... (Need to keep this going :thumb: ) 4 deaths with 2 being in a group/assisted care facility. 155 people in ICU beds and 145 other hospitalizations. 910,271 total people tested... and 1,121,299 total tests completed. Again this number isn't jiving with everything.... because subtract 1,105,094 from 1,121,299 equals 16,205....and the numbers posted are 15,924 tests completed today? So again... the numbers are not equaling or they are not explaining why the difference. Is it because these are tests processed weeks ago and not getting into the "daily" numbers... who knows... they might need to explain this.

But out of 910,271 people tested only 59,185 cases (if these are accurate numbers) is 6.5% infection rate... not great but not horrible by any means. If our daily infection rate is below that it is winning against this virus.

Also 51,940 people no longer need isolation. So that means 7,245 "active cases"... this number needs to drop. But out of a population of approximately 5,600,000. That means .13 of the population is "contagious".


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## Chuck Smith

Sorry I have been slacking on these updates... I was busy with work and also was out enjoying the Great State of ND. I enjoyed a few days of early goose hunting and just relaxing.

Anyways.... Todays numbers 8/17/2020 for MN.... 359 "new" cases.... with 7,402 tests... that is an infection rate of 4.85%. 9 Deaths with 7 coming from assisted care type facilities. ICU numbers is 154 in beds and another 150 hospitalized. So again... NO swamped which the Gov. of MN kept saying he wanted to avoid. So need to open more things up. The hospitals are ready if anything "expodes".

So when I was gone.... the numbers went from 59,185 "cases" to 66,061 "cases". That is an increase 6,876 cases from 8-7 to 8-17. So an average of 688 "new" cases a day... (I rounded up). Testing went from 1,121,299 to 1,273,397. That is 152,098 tests.... so that is 4.52% rate of infection.... SO GOOD NUMBERS. Still need to go down. But showing MN isn't SKY ROCKETING or anything like that.

The number of "possible" deaths has increased to 46. So 46 deaths might not be linked to COVID... but right now are being counted towards it. In MN so far they have had 1721 total deaths from covid and 1257 have come from a care facility (assisted, nursing, group home, rehab home, etc).

Again take the info with a grain of salt and make informed decisions. BTW... you are not reading too much about Covid now adays.... the media is on the "new" news cycle to push... ie: Election.


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## Plainsman

Good morning Chuck. Jamestown had mass testing a couple days ago and no positives. Things are looking up.

Cuomo praised Trump for all the help in the beginning. Then the fool sent the infected yo nursing homes and killed thousands. Nlw to hide his lack of judgement he blames Trump. What a bunch of loosers.

Did you see Bidens interview with Carly B. The democrats sure like her. Hannity said he couldnt even repeat the words to her new song. So you know I had to google it. Its called WAP. I dont think the democrats have a chance even cheating. They dont want mail in votes to win, they want it to creat civil unrest. Like Russia, China. Cuba, perhaps they think communism will work if they kill enough of us. Those with Trump Derangement Syndrome would certainly drop the hammer on Trump if they had a clear shot. The Secret Service better stay sharp.


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## Chuck Smith

MN Updated Numbers....

567 "new cases" with 34,879 tests completed that is an infection rate of 1.62%. This is misleading because of 34K tests when the average has been closer to the 12K range. But hope it keeps up with huge number of tests. :thumb: There was 17 deaths with 9 coming from an assisted or group type facility. This number is still way to high. But break it down more by age groups.... 1- 60+ age, 5 - 70+ age, 5 - 80+ age, and 6 - 90+ age. Again we want 0 deaths but just to shed light on the subject 11 of the 17 deaths were over the average life expectancy of the national population. ICU Beds is 152 and Hospital stays is 169. So still good numbers or stable numbers there.

We just need to see if testing "drops" tommorrow to the average or if way below.

Stay informed and make your own decisions.


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## Chuck Smith

I am just going to do a "mid month" recap here....



> April 1- April 30
> - 59,625 Tests Competed (this decreased)
> - 7,239 Positive Cases (this decreased)
> - 12.14% Infection Rate
> 
> May 1 - May 31
> - 202,016 Tests completed (this increased)
> - 18,280 positive cases (this increased)
> - 9.05% infection rate
> 
> June 1 - June 30
> - 333,533 Tests Completed (this decreased)
> - 12,342 Positive cases (this increased by 726)
> - 3.70% Infection Rate
> 
> July 1 - July 30
> - 407,890 Tests completed
> - 16,325 positive cases
> - 4.00% infection rate


April 1- April 30
- 59,613 Tests (this keeps going down?)
- 7,241 cases (this keeps changing... went up, down, now back up)
- 12.15% Infection Rate

May 1 - May 31
- 201,972 Tests (this went down?)
- 18,289 Cases (this went up slightly)
- 9.05% Infection rate

June 1 - June 30
- 333,147 Tests (Keeps decreasing??)
- 11,777 Cases (this decreased as well)
- 3.54% Infection rate

July 1- July 31
- 422,022 Tests (this is bound to increase as data comes in)
- 19,387 Cases (this is bound to increase as data comes in)
- 4.59% Infection rate

What is alarming or a concern is that the data for July.... 14,132 more tests from last time I checked and from those tests 3,062 new cases... that is a 21.67% increase with the added testing. But look below for august... which is good and trending correctly. Just need to see by the end of August how will the numbers change for July... will they keep going up or will it be the same... around 4-5% infection rate.... time will tell.

So far in August... 269,658 Tests with 9008 Cases...3.34% infection rate. The testing average is about 14980 a day so far for august. If they keep this up it would be about 460,000 tests completed for August... which is 40K more than done in July. So testing is amazing and doing good. :thumb:

Edit:

A few things to note....
1. What happened in June...ie protesting which could make the july numbers increase.
2. What happened in July... bars opened up which could lead to the increase in july numbers
3. What happened in August... mask mandate... could corralate to the good numbers so far. But we also have school opening... so we will see how it plays out. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

Numbers from MN...

698 "new" cases with 13810 tests... infection rate of 5.05% 7 Deaths with 2 coming from assisted care type facilities. 148 in the ICU with another 161 in the hospital. All good/stable numbers. The deaths need to stop but the rest is stable and going in the right direction.

Make informed decisions you feel best to do. But dont believe the HYPE that MN is a "hotbed". It is far from it.


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## Chuck Smith

MN update....

835 "new cases" with 8 deaths. 4 of them coming from assisted care type facilities. 18,815 tests completed... infection rate of 4.44%. ICU is 136 with another 160 in hospital.

Numbers still trending in a good direction.

Also for people wondering about schools.

With the guidelines set forth by the Govenor.... number of cases per 100K... 51 counties are in the 0-9 range (which means could go back to full time in person learning) 26 are in the range of 10-19 (which is Elem in person learning and HS hybrid) and 10 counties are in the 20-29 (Which is both Hybrid learning).

https://www.health.state.mn.us/diseases ... school.pdf

This is the data point from 7/26 to 8/8.

Stay safe.


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## Chuck Smith

MN Update...

717 "new" cases.... with 12,296 is a 5.83% infection rate. 4 deaths with 3 of them coming assisted facilities. 135 in the ICU with 175 others in hospital.

So all the numbers but the "new" cases needs to keep dropping. With school starting today we will see how things progress. The testing is great... ICU numbers are good... etc.

Stay safe.


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## Plainsman

A researcher from Yale University says Hydroxychloroquine would save a lot of elderly patients. The democrats are willing to let people die to destroy the economy and defeat Trump. Just as much murderers as those who took over Russia and China to get communism.

https://www.marklevinshow.com/2020/08/2 ... loroquine/


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## Chuck Smith

Lets not forget about the PLASMA treatment that the FDA tried to outlaw.

But again... anything Trump says is BAD.

Just like the thing I posted about the Rose garden and the updates... it was for handicap assessibility. But many are "up in arms" about it.

Did anyone see about the post office... Pelosi's bill that she pushed thru actually will hurt the post office from performing some duties that will be required of them. Interesting isn't it. She can come running back to push a bill on the Post office but not for Corona aid??? oke:

She is playing political games before an election.


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## Chuck Smith

I also forgot to mention the 77 FALSE POSITIVE test results for the NFL. That when checked again were all NEGATIVE!!!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nf ... r-BB18kspQ


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## Plainsman

The democrats can no longer surprise me with how low they can go. We should have known they have no low boundaries when they pushed abortion. Now they are willing to let people die in their power struggle. Im surprised they have not gone for euthanizeing the elderly, but when you have a virus that kills the old and sick you can sit back and pretend you care.

More proof on how little they care, they want resource officers out of the schools. Why? I believe because there isnt enough school shootings to move their gun confiscation forward. The people in Missouri that had been charged with a felony for defending themselves with guns they never fired spoke at the republican convention tonight. The black woman that was the loudest and crudest mouth who threatened them has won the nomination to represent that district.

Speaking of the republican convention, if Biden seen it he will vote for Trump. If he was for law and order, if he wasnt a war monger, if he supported the police -------' what do you want to bet he now comes out and says we dont understand he actually supports the police. Where is the emoticon for gagging? :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith

MN Numbers for today...

8858 Tested.... 414 "new" cases...4.67% infection rate. 8 deaths with 2 coming from "assisted" care type places. ICU 137 and other hospitals 175.

A funny little thing... number of tests completed dropped from yesterday... went from 12296 to 12284. Again not a big drop or anything. But shows you how the numbers keep changing.

Later today I will do another "recap" to see how the numbers changed for April, May, June, July.... since it has been 25 days since end of july those numbers you would think should be more "solid" but as I have shown... they never are. oke:


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## Chuck Smith

Corona update for MN today....

542 "new" cases with 11,013 tests completed... 4.9% infection rate. 14 deaths with 10 of them coming from an assisted or group home facility. 134 in the ICU and 170 in hospitals. Also the "probable" deaths increased to 49... so they might or might not be linked to COVID.

There has been 1793 Deaths in MN with 1325 coming from assisted or group type facilities. That is 73.9% of the deaths are from those type of facilities. Again not saying dont that the virus lightly. But it shows you who is vulnerable the most. There has been a total of 10895 cases that came from group, assisted, nursing, corrections, homeless type shelters or living facilities. That includes staff, visitors or residents of these places. So that is roughly 12.16% of these people that got the virus there have died. Again not to take it lightly...

Now there is a total of 71236 cases that happened in MN... if you subtract those that came from the facilities...60341 cases outside of these facilities... with 468 deaths coming from those outside of the facilities... that is a .78% chance of death... YES LESS THAN 1% chance.

Again dont take this lightly and make decisions for yourself. But it shows you the numbers... and this is not just 1 month worth... but since MARCH... almost 6 months of data...and it is consistent. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

MN Numbers for today...

1158 "new" cases. With 21,144 tests.... infection rate of 5.48% With 13 deaths and 6 coming from assisted care type facilities.

139 are in the ICU with another 166 in hospitals.

Total cases in MN 72,390 with 1,093,490 people tested and 1,427,347 total tests completed. That is a 6.62 infection rate per person.

So lets put this into perspective... in 2019 MN estimated population is about 5,639,632. So they have tested about 20% of the population (19.39%) So doing pretty good on the testing and a sample size of 20% should show you how things will go. Most studies are not even close to 20% sample size. :thumb:


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## Chuck Smith

> April 1- April 30
> - 59,613 Tests (this keeps going down?)
> - 7,241 cases (this keeps changing... went up, down, now back up)
> - 12.15% Infection Rate
> 
> May 1 - May 31
> - 201,972 Tests (this went down?)
> - 18,289 Cases (this went up slightly)
> - 9.05% Infection rate
> 
> June 1 - June 30
> - 333,147 Tests (Keeps decreasing??)
> - 11,777 Cases (this decreased as well)
> - 3.54% Infection rate
> 
> July 1- July 31
> - 422,022 Tests (this is bound to increase as data comes in)
> - 19,387 Cases (this is bound to increase as data comes in)
> - 4.59% Infection rate


So a quick recap...

April 1- April 30
- 59,620 Tests (this went up)
- 7,242 Cases (this went up by 1)
- 12.15% infection rate

May 1 - May 31
- 201,980 tests (went up)
- 18,290 cases (went up by 1)
- 9.05% infection rate

June 1 - June 30
- 333,086 tests (went down)
- 11,772 cases (went down)
- 3.53% infection rate

July 1 - July 31
- 421,922 tests (went down by 100)
- 29,367 cases (went up by about 10K)
- 6.96% infection rate

August 1 - August 26
- 388,886 tests
- 14,803 cases
- 3.81% Infection rate

Something doesn't add up???



> So far in August... 269,658 Tests with 9008 Cases...3.34% infection rate. The testing average is about 14980 a day so far for august. If they keep this up it would be about 460,000 tests completed for August... which is 40K more than done in July. So testing is amazing and doing good. :thumb:


So above is what I typed for AUG numbers for Aug 1-18.... that is 9008 cases. then see the data above in the quoted about previous months...and now the new data.

So how can july jump up 9980 cases.... August go up including adding 8 days up 5795 cases. that is 9980+5795=15775 cases.

Now I have done 6 updates (missing weekends) and that totals to 4364 "new" cases. When the data should say 15775 new cases??? What is going on? In the two days I missed there wasn't 11,000+ cases. Something doesn't add up????

I went back and added up the tests I missed in two days was 29,027.... then i added up the tests I reported on... in those 8 days is 85,936... so a total of 114,963.... when it should be 119,228 by the "monthly" totals. only missing about 5K... but how does that make up for 11000+ cases in missing 5k tests???? Something isn't adding up??

We need accurate info to make accurate decisions.... how can 11,000 cases appear??? plus the testing difference of 5,000? even if those 5,000 were all positive it doesn't add up! This 11,000 number should be less 6,000... because we are missing 5,000 tests if all of those tests were positive there should be 5,000 cases not 11,000.

So lets just use the numbers I posted above with total people so far and total tests done.... If you subtract 6,000 cases... which like i just stated we are missing 5,000 tests and have 11,000 positive or new cases difference... so that is 6,000 cases if all of the missing tests were positive.... So now the total cases should be 66,390 "total cases" instead of 72,930. Now take that divided by the total number of people tested.... and we can subtract 6000 from that number as well because those are missing test/people so now a total of 1,087,490... that is now an infection rate of 6.1% not 6.62%... now that is if all of the missing tests were new people and all positive. People might not say a big difference but it could mean if a school can do learning in person or not. WE NEED ACCURATE INFO!!! :bop:

I will wait until the end of the month and hopefully they have a correction... but something isn't adding up. We have had this before and they come out with something that shows or says why it is different. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith

MN update for today...

862 "new cases" with 16,319 tests. Infection Rate 5.28% infection rate. With 4 deaths and 2 coming from an assisted living type facility. 137 people in the ICU and another 164 in the hospital.

Stay safe everyone. :bop:


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## Plainsman

College started so we went from 0 to 3 a day to 24 yesterday. I think the biggest problem is the bars. and the ten foot tall and bjllet proof attitude. Speaking of attitude listening to some young people they laugh and call covid the "boomer remover".


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## Chuck Smith

Same thing in my area. It went up big time in my county because of the 3 universities.

but here is the kicker.... did they bring it in from where ever they came from. I do understand that it is now an "active" case in the county. But it didn't originate in the county. So lock the person up monitor so they dont spread it. These cases should go down after 2 weeks if they do what they are supposed to.


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## Chuck Smith

Sorry I didn't get time to post the daily numbers for MN yesterday....

But I did write them down... so here they are for yesterday:

562 "new" cases with 9158 tests completed...6.17% infection rate. 6 deaths with 1 being from a group or assisted care place. 136 in the ICU and 158 in other hospital beds. They had 49 "probable" deaths which means they could be covid related or not. Which that number stayed the same.

Now the update for cases today:

761 "new cases"... with 27487 tests completed... 2.77% infection rate. 7 deaths with 6 coming from assisted or group facilities. 135 in ICU and another 162 in other hospital beds. 52 "probable" deaths from covid. So this went up slightly.

So again numbers are good. can always get better. It will be interesting how the numbers go after next week when all schools should be going. I know in my area and my school just switched all levels to "hybrid" learning. Which is a few days in person and others distance.


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## Chuck Smith

Todays update in MN... again things are not adding up.... See monthly summaries... Anyways... today 1047 "new cases" out of 13926 tests. Infection rate of 7.52% infection rate. 7 deaths with 3 coming from assisted care type facilities. 138 in ICU beds and 134 in other hospital beds. So worrying about the "hospitals" being over run is blown out of the water... loosen some restrictions Govenor.... :bop:

BTW... many of the "new cases" are not even contagious anymore by the data I will show below... BTW.. you will see how JULY was all screwed up with the data give to us.



> April 1- April 30
> - 59,620 Tests (this went up)
> - 7,242 Cases (this went up by 1)
> - 12.15% infection rate
> 
> May 1 - May 31
> - 201,980 tests (went up)
> - 18,290 cases (went up by 1)
> - 9.05% infection rate
> 
> June 1 - June 30
> - 333,086 tests (went down)
> - 11,772 cases (went down)
> - 3.53% infection rate
> 
> July 1 - July 31
> - 421,922 tests (went down by 100)
> - 29,367 cases (went up by about 10K)
> - 6.96% infection rate
> 
> August 1 - August 26
> - 388,886 tests
> - 14,803 cases
> - 3.81% Infection rate


So now the numbers and change...

April 1- April 30
- 59,622 tests (+2 tests)
- 7,274 cases (+32 cases)
- 12.2% infection rate

May 1 - May 31
- 201,990 tests (+10 tests)
- 18291 cases (+1 case)
- 9.1% infection rate

June 1 - June 30
- 333,067 tests (-19 tests)
- 11,776 cases (+4 cases)
- 3.54% infection rate

July 1- July 31
- 421,945 tests (+23 tests)
- 19,793 cases (-9574 cases)
- 4.69% infection rate

August 1 - August 31
- 460,141 Tests
- 19,942 cases
- 4.33% infection rate

EDIT... So if you notice how the numbers keep shifting with cases and testing. I knew last time that JULY was messed up. But how can test numbers go down and cases go up?? or how can cases go up by more than increase in test numbers? In June there is 19 less tests but case numbers went up 4??? How can this be? How many false positive/negatives can there be?

Also with today's numbers saying 1047 "new cases"... well so far they only have 131 listed as cases for September ... So how many of those 1047 of todays number are from august, july, june, may, april, etc.... So when the news states "out break"... not completely true.

So again we are getting not the most accurate info on this subject. How can they make decisions for schools and other things if people dont have accurate info.

I think below is more accurate for the previous july numbers than the ones quoted above.



> July 1- July 31
> - 422,022 Tests (this is bound to increase as data comes in)
> - 19,387 Cases (this is bound to increase as data comes in)
> - 4.59% Infection rate


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