# Why should you vote Democrat or Republican?



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Here is one reason to not vote Republican....

Here is what I have seen.....82% of the tax cuts went to the wealthiest 1%. Moreover,the cuts have blown up the federal budget deficit.They will increase the debt by 2.3 trillion over the next 10 years.We will soon be spending more money on the interest than on defense spending. Yes that's our fiscal responsible Republicans. Reverse Robin Hood.....take from the poor and give to the rich. Sure glad they are controlling our government. uke: uke:

Now they are talking about cutting Social Security and Medicare to bring down that deficit. Do you really want that to happen Plainsman? I sure don't.I worked for 50 years to be able to get them. Now your buddies want to take that away to bring down the deficit they created by this HUGE tax cut for the rich.

Here is a quote from Newsweek....." McConnel calls for Social Security and Medicare cuts." Kramer even wants to raise the retirement age. Here'a another Kramer quote....." Some people are going to have to sacrifice."

This is your fellow republican Kevin Kramer's idea.....can you really afford to elect this guy?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

AS was part of the democrats new deal, or some such. They created it as voluntary. Then they made it mandatory. Then they raised it because they could not stand to see money not being spent.

As far as the tax cuts everyone I know has more money in their salary checks. I forget the numbers, but something like the top 5% of Americans pay more than half of all taxes. I noticed a report that record revenue has been coming in. With business and the economy booming that's no surprise. I remember the democrats going nuts over Reagan's trickle down economics. They forgot that it was originally a JFK plan.

Ken you have to stop reading the Huffing and Puffington post. oke:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman......doesn't change the fact that Kramer and his Republican friends want to make cuts in Social Security and Medicare to bring down the HUGE deficit on the horizon. If they want to do that.,....I don't see how any senior citizen who gets those can vote for Kramer. That will be money out of their pockets.

The numbers don't lie......82% of those cuts went to the wealthiest 1%.

Who will pay off this huge debt???? Yours and my kids????


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Your right numbers don't lie. The top 1% evidently paid 85% of this nations taxes. I don't know why liberals/Democrats hate the wealthy so much. Just think of how much more we would have to pay if taxation was fair. Fair would be everyone paying the same amount of money. That would perhaps be 75% of my income. However taxation is very unfair because the more you make the higher percentage you pay. Middle ground would be we all pay the same percentage. That would mean ours goes up and theirs would go down. Democrats keep crying fair, fair, fair. Be careful what you hope for.
How would reducing SS bring down the debt? Unless I don't understand SS doesn't go into the general fund. It has often been raided by democrats so perhaps it needs to be reduced to remain solvent. This may be the first time democrats have told the truth. When they said this st every election for the past 50 years they were lying.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Here is how cutting SS payments will affect the National Debt.....

"Social Security had a cash flow deficit and used roughly $110 billion in interest to help make benefit payments. Because the government had to borrow money in order to pay the interest to Social Security; that contributes to the federal deficit."

So cutting yours and my benefits will lower the National Debt. I think we can find other places to help fix the National Debt. Like not giving the richest 1% a huge tax break and the rest of us minuscule tax cuts so we can all proclaim what a great thing the Trump tax cuts are. The rich can obviously afford it a lot better than we can.

Is it really fair that the rich receive 82% of the tax cuts? Wouldn't you like it if the richest 1% received 18% and the rest of us received 82%.  

Now that would put more money in the most pockets to spend and help the economy. :beer: :beer:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken,

In those tax numbers you are talking about is that also figuring in Corporate tax cuts? I am just curious because it has been shown that the corporate tax cuts are paying for themselves because of the increase in jobs and more taxes getting collected because of those jobs. Or is it the same talking point BS that was happening back when the bill first was being discussed. How the tax cuts after 2025 stay for the 1% and the rest of us go back to what it was? Because again... if that is the reason for your "stats" is they can be re-upped by congress in 2025 or be made permanent anytime before 2025. It is up to the elected officials. So again what are those numbers you are talking about... include corporate tax cuts or the talking point BS for after 2025???

I also agree with you that the increasing deficit is an issue but hopefully Trump keeps cutting the fat away from unneeded regulations that are nickel and diming the nation. The "for every new regulation we need to delete two off the books." But yes I need to see what or how they plan to cut SS and what not before I make a decision. Because all we have heard is they want to cut it.... but what parts do they want to cut? Because there is some waste that can be cut from them... just like all programs.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

The alternative is that the Dems will gain power....taxes will increase....Spending will increase and the debt will still increase at the same or greater rate. This isn't a party issue its a government issue. Cramer said "some must make a sacrifice" ....... many of us already have for many, many years, via our payment into the SS and Medicare. If the government want's to pilfer funds it can pilfer from the congressional retirement fund or the congressmen's budgets for a change.....


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Yes.....government needs to stop borrowing (taking) from the SS fund and putting in IOU's. Refund it or there will be nothing left when the Millennials want to retire.

As far as Democrats always increasing the debt. Not so.....Bill Clinton was president and there was no debt. :bop:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Refund it or there will be nothing left when the Millennials want to retire.


Ken.... a few things about that statement...

1. SS was never meant to be a "retirement fund". That is major issue #1. People are banking on SS to be their retirement. I don't have an answer for this... but this is the issue. Because what people paid in back in the 70's doesn't account for inflation of today and going forward. Just like the money I am putting in now isn't going to account for inflation in 20+ years.

2. Millennials... some are not working or working hard. So not much money is going in. Or they are entering the work force later and what not. So yep... they/we are screwed.

Anyways..... I need to see what is going to be "cut" from these programs before I make a decision on it. Because SS is everything from benefits being paid to elderly, handicap, food programs, housing programs, etc. It is a very broad program.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

KEN W said:


> As far as Democrats always increasing the debt. Not so.....Bill Clinton was president and there was no debt. :bop:


Not true,



> Bill Clinton: Added $1.396 trillion, a 32-percent increase from the $4.4 trillion debt at the end of George H.W. Bush's last budget, FY 1993.





> Barack Obama: Added $8.588 trillion, a 74-percent increase from the $11.657 trillion debt at the end of Bush's last budget, FY 2009.


Found here: https://www.thebalance.com/us-debt-by-p ... nt-3306296

The Republicans increased it more as far as percentage goes. But to say that Bill Clinton or any other Democrat did not have, or did not increase the debt is just false.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Is it really fair that the rich receive 82% of the tax cuts? Wouldn't you like it if the richest 1% received 18% and the rest of us received 82%.


 It's more than fair. They are paying what we should. If we give 82% back to those that paid much less that's close to how communism works.



> Yes.....government needs to stop borrowing (taking) from the SS fund and putting in IOU's.


 You know who started that right? Democrats started SS as a volunteer program, made it a mandatory program, and raided the funds.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Interesting.....with 1 week till election day......where is our loud mouthed president having his rally's? They are in states and districts that he carried. Some by a lot. Why is that? Its because they are now either tossups or leaning Democrat. Republicans are clearly playing defense so as to being able to hang on and not gain anything.....Here comes them blue wave. :beer: :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Here comes them blue wave


 Wave???? Maybe a drip, drip, drip. :laugh:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Wave.....Just a matter of how high. Could be a Tsunami :laugh:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Wave.....Just a matter of how high. Could be a Tsunami :laugh:


 What? Are you trying to give me nightmares Ken?  We will need 15 different kinds of bathrooms for the LGBQWXUZERTYLPB'S. :rollin:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I'm glad to see you are in a laughing mood. Will you still feel this way after the blue wave next Tuesday? :laugh: :laugh:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Kevin Kramer states he supports President Trump 100% of the time. Is that what ND really needs? Shouldn't he look out for ND 100% of the time? Shouldn't he look out for ND farmers? Trumps trade war with China has left millions of bushels of soybeans stuck here. Does China really care where they buy soybeans? Then are now buying soybeans from Brazil. Just a few days ago I saw the soybean market is at it's lowest trade price in 10 years. Is that really acceptable. How long will farmers here sit and say...." Nothing to worry about. China will come around." And Kevin Kramer will continue to vote as he is told by Trump.

Yeah right. in the meantime farmers here will continue to be in the hurt bag.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Then are now buying soybeans from Brazil


If you look at my posts about a month ago I said the Chinese will need to eat. They will purchase from Brazil just like they did last time they were angry with us. Brazil doesn't have enough soybeans so they buy from us then sell to China. What a scam.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Kevin Kramer states he supports President Trump 100% of the time. Is that what ND really needs? Shouldn't he look out for ND 100% of the time? Shouldn't he look out for ND farmers? Trumps trade war with China has left millions of bushels of soybeans stuck here. Does China really care where they buy soybeans? Then are now buying soybeans from Brazil. Just a few days ago I saw the soybean market is at it's lowest trade price in 10 years. Is that really acceptable. How long will farmers here sit and say...." Nothing to worry about. China will come around." And Kevin Kramer will continue to vote as he is told by Trump.
> 
> Yeah right. in the meantime farmers here will continue to be in the hurt bag.


That's the same rhetoric that Heidi's is spewing. The prices are low because everyone planted them this year, and according to the farmers I know the beans around here were committed to Canada. China not buying them means nothing. Heidi's ads about the farmers not being able to recover are lies. Did you see the news about Trump brokering a deal with Europe to buy our soybeans? Of course not, doesn't meet the liberal agenda.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

You are the one spouting ultra conservative lies.....

The European Union does not have the power to import any more soybeans. That is left up to individual countries.

There are no European tariffs on our soybeans. "China not buying them mean nothing?" The EU imports only 19 million tons of soybeans from us. China imported 86 million tons. Do the math.....BIG DIFFERENCE and to say they cancel each other out is ridiculous.

Plus the EU agreement does not say they will buy anymore soybeans. It just says they will not do anything to affect the market.

So tell me if this EU agreement is so great, why has the price of soybeans dropped to the lowest price in 10 years since China raised tariffs? :huh:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

huntin1 wrote:


> The prices are low because everyone planted them this year


Ken wrote:


> So tell me if this EU agreement is so great, why has the price of soybeans dropped to the lowest price in 10 years since China raised tariffs?


Hmmmmm :rollin:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

OK.....um.....lets read the 2018 USDA crop report.......

"USDA is estimating 2018 planted soybean acres at nearly 89.6 million acres, which compares to just under 89 million planted acres projected on March 1. The 2018 soybean acreage still trails the record U.S. soybean acreage of over 90.1 million acres in 2017."

Hmmmmmm :rollin:

So once again.....why is the soybean price the lowest in 10 years? Not because acreage has increased. Um....could it be those pesky China tariffs put on and buying from Brazil? Sounds like those Heitkamp ads about Kramer and his idol Trump could be true.

Ask yourself.....Why did Tiny Trump offer 12 BIllion to bail out soybean farmers? :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

You and the rest of the liberals can pretent its a tariff issue, doesn't mean it is.



> There are many reports that claim tariffs are the major reason why soybean prices are down. It is one reason beans are down and maybe the reason for the last .75 cents to $1.00, but far from why November 2018 soybeans have tumbled from the May 29th high at $10.60 ½.
> 
> The reality is that U.S. and global farmers caused the drop in prices long before President Trump announced tariffs. The countries that placed tariffs on U.S. commodities such as soybeans just added insult to injury by making an already bad situation worse. But it seems pretty good for the politicians and soybean groups that can use tariffs to blame falling prices. For instance, a week ago members of Congress, along with business leaders from Midwestern states wrote President Trump about what tariffs have done to soybean prices and other agricultural commodities affected by tariffs. Nowhere in the letter did I read that U.S. farmers are growing a possible record crop, planted more soybeans than corn, have stored more soybeans than a year ago, or where China for over a year has purchased more beans outside of the U.S.
> 
> ...


http://www.grainphd.com/special-reports ... an-prices/

I have yet to see any Heitkamp ads that remotely resemble the truth.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

This article is exactly what I have said. You stated that there were more acres planted this year.....USDA says not true. This also says nothing about Imports from China DECREASING. They were at 86 million bushels. It will be nowhere near that high this year. WHY??? Because China will not buy here and will go else wear. So support Kramer and Trump all you want. His and Kramer's policies will HURT American farmers. No 2 ways about it.

North Dakota farmers will pay the price for this Trump policy. And people are dumb and naive enough to believe them. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Worrying only about today and not thinking about the future has been a problem for some people. This tarif tiff will end with farmers being in much better shape in the very near future. Its simply a political ploy by the left to cry about the tariffs

Look at the sugar beet farmers They control now many acres go into production. If you want to raise sugar beets you have to buy in. In this way they keep prices high. Been farmers are not organized. When prices go up they drop other crops and all plant been driving the prices down. It's extremely simple economics 101.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

You want to talk sugar beet farmers? OK....Lets do that. Here is the truth about sugar subsidies.....

"In the United States, fewer than 4,500 farm businesses produce sugar. Yet they cost taxpayers up to $4 billion a year in subsidies.

The U.S. sugar program is a Stalinist-style supply control initiative that limits imports through quotas and domestic production through what are called marketing allotments.

This strategy substantially increases U.S. prices - on average U.S. sugar prices are about twice as high as world prices ensuring domestic sugar production is artificially higher, crowding out other productive uses of irrigable farmland."

Wow.....gotta love those beet farmers taking all of us to the cleaners. Our prices are twice as high as world prices!!!

That's all we need....soybean farmers adopting a program similar to beet farmers.....raise prices some more. Great idea. uke: uke:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

The prices tanked way before this tariff, China has been getting their soybeans from someone else for a year. If there was no tariff issue China would still be getting their beans somewhere else and soybean prices would still be low because the market is flooded with beans. The only difference is that liberals would not have Trump to blame for the low prices, but they would find something else.

I am starting to think that your judgement is clouded by your hatred for President Trump.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

My judgement??????All I hear on this website is post after post about how all of you HATE Democrats and anyone to the left of center. As Trump always says....really sad.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> That's all we need....soybean farmers adopting a program similar to beet farmers.....raise prices some more. Great idea. uke: uke:


 First you don't like low prices, then you don't like high prices. What's it going to take to keep you happy? It's sort of like the liberals complaining about Wal-Mart, but I see all the ones I know shop there.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

No Ken, I don't hate Democrats. I do hate the ideology of the Democratic Party and what they have become, more socialist than anything. And I do believe that their ultimate goal is to turn this country into a socialist state.

It is true that I am conservative, my wife says I'm a Republican, but really I'm more independent. I voted for Hiedi when she first ran for the Senate. But her record in Washington, and what she apparently stands for has caused me to vote Republican this time. It's not that I think Cramer is that great, but I see him as the lesser of two evils. It's the same with Trump, wasn't fond of him when he first announced that he was running, but against Hillary, the vote was a no brainer. Is Trump a great president? Too early for me to say. But he has made significant progress in turning this country around from the downward spiral initiated by Obama, a direction that would have continued with Hillary.

So Ken, I don't hate you or any other Democrat, but I don't understand how one continues to support a party that has the ultimate goal of destroying this country by moving to socialism, an idealism that has failed in every country where it was adopted.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> So Ken, I don't hate you or any other Democrat, but I don't understand how one continues to support a party that has the ultimate goal of destroying this country by moving to socialism, an idealism that has failed in every country where it was adopted.


 Same here huntin1, but there is an arrogance that proceeds socialism. Every time they try it it fails, but then along comes more socialist leaning people and you know what they think? They think it failed because it wasn't them doing it. Everyone else failed, but they were not me attitude. Ya right. There is no doubt that Obama and Hillary think they can do it successfully, and they have convinced others they can do it.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Hunt.....I am not a far left socialist. I agree with Trump's stand on immigration. And have said so on many occasions here. I also support 2nd amendment rights. I am personally opposed to abortion. All on the right side of the political spectrum.But I also agree with some things on the left side. I consider myself a moderate and will not step in line with the left or right. BUT I am also a Democrat and have been so since I started voting almost 50 years ago. I'm not going to change.

I actually voted for Reagan once. And I think Ford and Bush Senior were OK. Coming from Congress, I think they at least tried to compromise and get something done. I also did not vote for president in 2016. I didn't like either Trump or Clinton. I did however vote on everything else. I won't vote for Trump in 2020 either.If I don't like the Democratic candidate....I won't vote for president again.

BUT.....all the vitriol on this website for Democrats get VERY old after awhile. We are NOT all Bernie Sanders followers. So don't group us all together. As for the Heitkamp/Kramer battle. Heitkamp stands head and shoulders above Kramer. I would not like anyone who only votes 1 way. Which Kramer does, EVERY TIME. He is A LOSER IN MY BOOK. And has been even when on the Public Service Commission. I wouldn't vote for him if he were running for any office and was the only one on the ballot. I would rather not vote at all. uke: uke:

Of all the 15 Republican candidates running for president....Trump was the worst choice Republicans could make....well maybe Ted Cruz was worse. I would have voted for Jeb Bush or john Kottsick. But we are STUCK with Trump. Hopefully Congress will become Democratic controlled and stop some of these boneheaded ideas of Trump.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> Hunt.....I am not a far left socialist. I agree with Trump's stand on immigration. And have said so on many occasions here. I also support 2nd amendment rights. I am personally opposed to abortion. All on the right side of the political spectrum. Yes, I have noticed that Ken. That's why I acknowledged in a previous post that we share some of the same convictions we simply see different paths to the same goal. But I also agree with some things on the left side. I consider myself a moderate and will not step in line with the left or right. BUT I am also a Democrat and have been so since I started voting almost 50 years ago. I'm not going to change. In the past I considered myself a republican, but they also tick me off so bad I now consider myself independent. It's not that I like republicans it's just that the democrats often do not give me a choice. I would guess neither of them like my comments about our two party system being perverts and money worshipers.
> 
> I actually voted for Reagan once. I also did not vote for president in 2016. I didn't like either Trump or Clinton. I did however vote on everything else. I won't vote for Trump in 2020 either.If I don't like the Democratic candidate....I won't vote for president again. I am ashamed to admit I voted for Jimmy Carter the first time. What was I thinking?
> 
> BUT.....all the vitriol on this website for Democrats get VERY old after awhile. Not to worry Ken we dislike most democrats, but the obvious independent in you keeps us from pigeonholeing you with democrats. In case you have never noticed, ya we dislike democrats, but there are many people who vote democrat that we like. I think it's the politicians we don't like. Please don't run for office.  We are NOT all Bernie Sanders followers. So don't group us all together. As for the Heitkamp/Kramer battle. Heitkamp stands head and shoulders above Kramer. I would not like anyone who only votes 1 way. Which Kramer does, EVERY TIME. He is A LOSER IN MY BOOK. And has been even when on the Public Service Commission. I wouldn't vote for him if he were running for any office and was the only one on the ballot. I would rather not vote at all. uke: uke:


[/I have a friend I think a lot of who has a brother that is a very nice guy. I know few people as kind as this person. Yet he is a democrat (a politician at that) who believes in abortion, gay rights, planned parenthood, while at the same time belonging to Gideons, giving money to the poor etc. I have relatives the same way. However there is a lot more hate coming from left to right than right to left. If they could put aside their bias they would notice 75% of the violence and call for violence is coming from the left.

Edit: Considering where and how you decided to spend your career is a testament to your caring about people. Kudos to you Ken. It's just that the kindness of good individuals does not make me blind to the current sinister intent of the democrat party. One only need look at the Kavanaugh hearings and the false news and interpretations that followed to see the lack of integrity of the party itself.size]


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

I agree with you 100% about the negativity of this board towards Dem's and the policy. But lets look at facts.

1. The whole health care BS is on the Dem's they shoved it down our throats.
- I could go into a huge rant here but I wont. If anyone has read what I have wrote on this subject it has all come true. So you can see why upset with Dem's. They forced it upon the nation.

2. The Media... YOu have both sides spitting venom. But the only "pro-trump" is Fox.... The "hate trump" is CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NY Post, NY Times, etc. Then look how other social media outlets are kind of censoring people... twitter, facebook, youtube, etc. We wont even go into watching any press confrence at the white house and see how the "journalists" act! People are having enough of it... so again a reason why people are ****** at Dem's.

Edit: added....https://www.dailywire.com/news/37888/ne ... en-shapiro

3. Immigration... You are playing the Republican's for not getting anything done. Well we talked about this before that Trump conceded some major points and all he wanted was the "wall" and the Dem's pushed back. Many Dem's didnt even show up to meetings to discuss... they Grandstanded..... Shummer, Pelosi, etc. I know u will say what comes around goes around for the party of "no". But come on if Dem's cared about the issue they would go to meetings and not grandstand. You can see why people are ****** at Dem's

4. We dont need to touch on the whole Kavaunaugh issue. Media took it and ran and others piled on and it hurt the possibly only credible case. But then the "re-investigation" showed some BS with people asking others to change testimony. The whole NBC deal with the swetnick findings and not reporting them until now! YOu can see why people are against the Dem's and believe Trump's chants of "FAKE NEWS".

5. Taxes are down and more money in peoples pockets. This was all voted on by party lines. So why give Dem's credit for anything. I know you talked about the 83% cuts going to the top 1%... but you havent answered my question on if this is new data or the BS talking points because the cuts expire in 2025 and then it is all lopsided towards the 1% because those dont expire for the 1% in 2025. Again that is all on Congress to make them perminant. Or if the 83% is including corp tax cuts... which again has been proven to be paying for itself with the job increases and taxation on those new jobs. Again no dem's involved with promoting these tax cuts... but spouting rhetoric for 2025 if the Congress doesnt make the cuts perminant. Again this is all I have found so far. So please let me now if you have different info. So again all Dem's are doing is spouting rehtoric that has failed.... so again you can see the anomosity towards Democrats.

6. The economy is strong, jobs are strong, unemployment is down, etc. Again it has all been because of regulation cuts by trump with Executive orders and renegotiation of trade deals or pulling out of climate agreements that were hurting US industry. I know you have been talking soybeans and the farmers.... but the new NAFTA is helping the milk industry (or will), trump tweeted out this morning he talked with China and NK and is expecting a sit down at the G-20. So communication is happening for trade as we speak. Again if these countries read his book "the art of the deal"... hell they would see what he is doing... LOL But only time will tell with China. You dont hear any Democrats saying good job on any of this....

7. Antifa and the likes. (same can be said about Char and the white supremists).... but you dont hear any Dem saying anything bad about Antifa, BLM, etc. They are not saying "dont get into the faces of elected officials", "dont have peaceful protests", "Dont go low" (accept for Michelle Obama. :thumb: ), etc. You hear the opposite. Yet Trump and Reps have come out and demonized the "bomber", the shooter in Pitts, and most other uprisings. YOu don't hear Dem's coming out against violence against police officers or "denouncing" the acts (dallas shooting comes to mind)... You have the Dem's pointing fingers at Trump and blaming him for all of this yet they did nothing or point the finger at themselves for the Bernie supporter who shot up the softball game. Hypocracy!!!! You have heard Reps come out against trump on many things here and there. His tweets many wish he wouldn't send!

8. The most obvious on a Hunting Forum.... What party is infavor of gun control or gun bans? :sniper: :sniper:

So again you can see why people are so negative towards Dem's when you see what is happening. Also i hate to sound like Trump... but the media is playing a huge roll! you turn on 2 of the 3 major news outlets and all you hear is negativity towards the president. When the facts show the country is doing good. But the past presidency when things were not so good all you heard was how great things are by Obama and still "blame bush". It gets very very old and wears on people. That is why you have the #walkaway movement. go out and listen to some of those. It might open your eyes.

Now I have voted for many Dem's in my day both local and national level. So I am not a "party" lines type of guy. I look at facts and policy.

I could go on and on about the Hypocracy out there and why I myself am sick of it and so are many people..... a quick couple of points towards the media and "stars"...

1. The whole "black face" issue.
- Jimmy Kimmel did "black face" many times before he got his show. Nobody denouncing him for his past.
- It was in reference to Halloween and how you cant dress up as anything now with out people being butt hurt.
- It was ok for Al Roker to dress and do "white face" for a famous movie character.

2. CNN Don Lemon... (so many issues with his Hypocracy to count)
- He says not to demonize any group. But then goes to say it is rich white men's fault for the state of our country. Anyone else who would have said "black, women, poor" or anything opposite of him would have been fired, chastised on social media, etc. Yet nothing from CNN as of yet.

3. Hillary's screw up of Holder.... saying "they all look alike"... she did say it tounge and cheek and a very very poor joke. But if anyone else would have said it... LOOK OUT!!!

These are just three issues from this week about the Hypocracy..... so that is why people are so down on Dem's.

I dont mean to rant here but so sick of it and the negative ad's on both political sides.... it is terrible. It is childish the BS on both sides. :bop:

Plainsman...


> Not to worry Ken we dislike most democrats, but the obvious independent in you keeps us from pigeonholeing you with democrats. In case you have never noticed, ya we dislike democrats, but there are many people who vote democrat that we like. I think it's the politicians we don't like. Please don't run for office.


This is very true.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Here is an interesting statistic I saw about the younger population 18-30. The big question is.....will they come out and vote. Tradition is that older voters are more likely to vote. Especially in off years. But with the big anti Trump feelings of these younger voters, this could change this time. These people were the main supporters of Bernie Sanders in 2016.Milleniels are running for office in record numbers. Basically because they feel they are not being represented in Congress

Average age of House members is 58
Average age of Senators is 62

'President Trump's job approval rating among those under 30 was 26%. If he runs for re-election in 2020, 59% of those polled said they "will never" vote for him."


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

You are correct it will be the younger generation who decides this vote... that is if they vote. :beer:

Here is something I just saw on twitter....

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/north- ... e-licenses

Again it is from Fox news is it correct? I am not on FB so I couldn't open up that page. Something to think about if people are giving out false INFO.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes Hillary er I mean Heidi is smooth. She was on KFYR explaining it away yesterday. We all know that if you vote in a state election you must be a state resident. She explained that if your from out of state and vote in North Dakota you better pay North Dakota taxes and if you have a resident license for another state you will loose it. I think we all know that. I think this close to the election she didn't expect people to sort it out that fast. I think clearly deception was intended.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Will Tiny Trump cost his fellow Republicans seats in Congress and Governors races?

Yes he will.....his constant railing about Democrats and what will happen if they take control of Congress is hurting. He should have talked about the tax cuts, the economy, low jobless rates.

Remember back in 2016 when he was ranting on and on with Twitter? Kelly Ann Conway took away his phones. No Tweeting. He read from teleprompters when giving speeches. Now it's the Democrats will totally destroy our country. Somebody should have done it again. He is causing more harm and his approval ratings have been dropping the past week or so.

Turning the border into a police state and rolling out the barb wire isn't what most people want to see.And repeating over and over that Dems want to let in "bloodthirsty gangs" isn't anywhere close to true, and people know it. Good for the Dems, not good fro Reps. :bop: :bop: :bop:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> He should have talked about the tax cuts, the economy, low jobless rates.


 Rush was laughing at the people saying that today. It's a liberal talking point. I think Rush is right they have not listened or they would know he talks about all three of those things at his rally's . 


> Turning the border into a police state and rolling out the barb wire isn't what most people want to see.And repeating over and over that Dems want to let in "bloodthirsty gangs" isn't anywhere close to true, and people know it.


 A repo it'rter imbedded in the caravan says it's 70% young men, but the liberal media keeps saying women and children. If you watch FOX you would have seen the reality of this situation. Seen, as in with your own eyes by video.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I am seeing Trumps rallies....."Caravan after caravan after caravan of illegal aliens. coming into our country and overwhelming your communities" RIGHT OUT OF HIS MOUTH. Today he is finally talking about those things he should have been.... Maybe you should watch something other than Fox News and not get brainwashed. Whom in their right MIND would listen to Limbaugh......talk about getting brainwashed. uke: uke: uke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Every time I listen to Rush I wonder if mom forgot my twin at the hospital. :rollin:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I started listening to him a few times. But it didn't take long and the radio actually shut itself off. :laugh: :laugh:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

So will Republicans win every race tomorrow in ND? Like I've said before.....ND = political wasteland. I'm glad I moved to Minnesota, at least for politics where my vote will actually mean something. You can tell when Al Jaeger will win even though his own party doesn't endorse him. Voters in ND are being led to the voting trough. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Voters in ND are being led to the voting trough.


 That depends on a persons perspective and what they believe in. In North Dakota people are still close to the type of people that built this nation. Much different than Kalifornia or the Peoples Republic of Minnesota. :laugh: We still believe in the constitution minus the imaginary parts that some activists in the supreme court conjured up.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken....

I feel in MN my vote is wasted because they only listen to people from the metro. It is horrible to be honest.

Also quick talking point...

Did you see where MSNBC already posted election results last night!
https://deadline.com/2018/11/msnbc-grap ... 202496555/

Yeah... and had a Democrat winning. Again I totally agree that this is an error. BUT THIS IS WHY I THINK NO REPORTING OF RESULTS SHOULD HAPPEN UNTIL ALL POLLS ARE CLOSED! yes I meant for that to be in caps. Again for State run races you can start to post result because other voters from other states cant do crap about it. But only after the polls close! Because like I have mentioned people already say a president has won the race before others have had time to vote! Think about it... it is a 5 hour difference between NYC and Hawaii. Let alone 3 hour difference between NYC and California. So that is 3 hours voting that can be done in California when polls are closed in NYC. That is a ton of votes!!!

Let alone if the reporting is accurate... which I hope is correct but you never know now a days. How the media just runs with things.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Like I said, ripple, ripple, ripple. I talked to my son tonight and he thinks it's a good thing the democrats got the house. He said if they investigate, investigate and investigate instead of legislate they will kill themselves in 2020. On the other hand if they legislate they will damage the economy and kill themselves in 2020. He thinks nothing guarantees Trump for another four years like the house going democrat this midterm. He may have a point.

Personally I don't think they can stifle their hate long enough to legislate.

So far it looks like a gain for republicans in the senate. That means the judicial can be overhauled and conservative for the next 20 years. Who knows after that. I worry more about democrats than Russia or China.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Plainsman said:


> Like I said, ripple, ripple, ripple. I talked to my son tonight and he thinks it's a good thing the democrats got the house. He said if they investigate, investigate and investigate instead of legislate they will kill themselves in 2020. On the other hand if they legislate they will damage the economy and kill themselves in 2020. He thinks nothing guarantees Trump for another four years like the house going democrat this midterm. He may have a point.
> 
> Personally I don't think they can stifle their hate long enough to legislate.
> 
> So far it looks like a gain for republicans in the senate. That means the judicial can be overhauled and conservative for the next 20 years. Who knows after that. I worry more about democrats than Russia or China.


Your last statement is spot on IMHO, although agriculture is taking one for the team with respect to China, so I pray we can make headway on that front.

What are your thoughts on the measures? I am elated 3 is going down but disappointed that measure 1 looks to pass. The ramifications of that have me concerned.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think Trump will solve the Chinese trade problem. Last time China was angry they purchased from Brazil, but Brazil had to purchase from us to meet the Chinese demand. I hope something like that will happen again.

Measure 3? I post on another north dakota sportsman's site and was amazed that it started 85 percent for, but ended 51 percent against. I was happy to see it go down in flames at exactly what I predicted on that site. Wow did I get some nasty comments and some good ones with personal messages.

I noticed measure one was ahead, but didn't see how it ended. Pass I guess. I had mixed feelings, but voted no. No one wants corruption, but I think it gave to much power to a small group which contradicts our form of government.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Yeah that blue tsunami was impressive ehh.

At least the voters here in ND finally wised up and sent Hiedi home.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Plainsman,

I think it was good for the house to go Dem majority. Personally I hope they all work together now on stuff. Our government is meant to be a check and balance type system with no one party with too much control.

I do fear however that they will try more to attack the president. Even though the Mueller investigation (so far) hasn't found squat against Trump and collusion. They may have found some campaign finance issues. But they also did that with Obama and he paid a fine. But Mueller said he is going to "reveal" some stuff after the midterms. So this will be interesting what he says. But if it is again nothing towards the President... they way "impeach" or "investigate" more??? But I have hopes of legislation and keep the economy rolling, help get trade done with China, get immigration reform, etc. Get a plan that 70% of the country can get behind... lets face it 30% will always be upset no matter what gets done. That 30% likes to complain when their ice cream is too cold. :beer:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is the one thing that Dem's need to look out for (same goes for Reps if too far right people get elected)&#8230;.

But the Ocasio-Cortez winning. She is outright Socialist. Which if the party starts going that way they will lose or have lots of people move towards the right in the political spectrum. So she could shake some stuff up in the House but also might have a hard time with the old "rank and file" BS that goes on in both parties.

Another thing...
Not saying it is good or bad. But there was some people who gained victory who had some sexual assault allegations and on going investigations into these that won seats. The #Metoo era could come calling.... Again not saying they did it or going off the rails like many did with Kavanaugh. But if things come apparent that they did do these things.... what will happen? Also with what many did to Kavanaugh.... what might happen?? Just things to watch and see.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Soybean prices where already on their way down . 4-6 years of record production results in a surplus. Beans from the Midwest go to the Pacific due to logistics. The barges aren't big enough to float down the Mississippi or the great lakes. So when the EU upper their imports, that really only help the East coast. The tarrifs suck, steel and phos acid have sky rocketed. While the whole Bayer Monsanto merger was happening agrium and cps merged to created nutrien. Now there is a huge monolpy on liquid fertilizer. Not to mention our dry fertilizer is the cheapest in the world, so it is getting exported at record levels, leaving American farmers paying a high cost of fertilizer.

Remember when ND was all small grain? Beans came along and so did corn and changed the landscape, the same thing will happen again, until we have better trade agreements world wide. Hauling wheat into Canada had a 400% tax on it but Canada wheat had a 12% tax, that's not right.

Sugar beets needs to go. We need to quit funding them, it's a joke. At college the running joke was " you know beet farmers had a bad year when the farmer couldn't buy his wife a new pickup".

Too many idiots cannot manage money and relied on social security for their retirement. Let it dissolve and let my decide how to use my money for my retirement.

End of rant.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

BL...

Great post! :beer:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

BL......I agree with everything except the Social Security. I paid in for 54 years. So my parents and your parents/grandparents could have retirement. You younger guys are supposed to do the same for us. We should not dissolve it just because you guys don't want to pay in anymore.

Tell you Republican friends and my Democrat friends that they need to STOP borrowing from the fund, spending it on something else, paying interest(which raises the national debt), and putting in IOU"S. The money should be UNTOUCHABLE and allowed to be invested and collect interest so it is self sustainable.

Saying you don't want to pay in anymore is not right. And seniors of ANY party will fight that to our dying breath. :******: :******:

Also.....it was set up to FORCE people to have at least something when they reach old age. You don't want to pay in? Go back to the days before Social Security? Do you know how many people would have NO retirement money when they get to old to work? MILLIONS.....would you then rather have your taxes raised to get at least livable conditions until death? Or maybe just let them starve or spend their days in homeless shelters? And we are again talking MILLIONS.

With Social Security at least they are being forced to pay in. Isn't that better than the alternative?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ken, I agree on as. It will cost us one way or another. I am on the old civil service retirement system. I had to pay a portion so I would have Medicare. I have ten years of work other than my gov career where I paid into SS, but because I worked for the gov and have retirement I can't draw as.
AS started out volunteer, quickly went mandatory, and was raided by the democrats. Perhaps the republicans have raided it since, but I am only familiar up to the first raid.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Social security is dead. It was used and abused by politicians (shocker I know). We need to have a cut off. So everyone that paid in will get back exactly what they paid in. After that, you need to plan your own retirement because the government cannot hanlde money. If someone never planned for retirement, that's their fault, not mine. I know it sounds harsh, but that's the reality. Our government has tried to have safety nets and all that does is make people lazy. It's time to start over. No more safety nets.

If they taught financial planning in high school and college and made the classes worth a darn, we wouldn't be having this issue. But with all of the liberal teachers, they just teach kids that the government will save you.

End social security now.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

We sure would cut down on the illegals if we cut social security. They are coming for a better life at our expense.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> We sure would cut down on the illegals if we cut social security. They are coming for a better life at our expense.


If social security was managed and ran like it was intended and we had an option to opt out of it, I would be fine with it. But since the Government is too big and can't manage it. It need to be toast or possible managed privately.

We need a major overhaul of the Goverment. Both sides have ruined it for everyone. The left wants soical programs and the right wants war programs. Both have wasted trillions of dollars with nothing to show for it. I don't know if we will ever be able to change what been done, but we need to try.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

The government has raided it no doubt but so have the people. My grandfather was an FDR democrat big time. When I got my first job in high school working at a butcher plant making around $3.00/hr I complained about having all the deductions to my check. Of course one of them was social security. He went through the depression so of course I got the speech about having nothing to eat and feeding cattle kochia and thistles. But then he said something that has stuck with me. He stated he went to a local ladies place that was a caretaker for an old bachelor and helped her sign up. Said that happened a lot. There were and are a lot of people who never paid in and never will who were and are draining the system.

I have paid in since I first started working so approaching 35 years. From day one I have never expected to collect a dime. Surprised it isn't completely defunct already. Being a self employed farmer with no job related retirement I started a SEP account early, whole life policy, college fund accounts for the kids, etc. Wife has IRA with an off the farm job for health insurance and she pours as much as possible into her IRA. It should be a part any responsible citizen to take care of themselves. I NEVER expect the government to do it for me.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

"The left wants soical programs and the right wants war programs. Both have wasted trillions of dollars with nothing to show for it"

OK......you guys want to cut SS and war programs and pretty much all social programs us NASTY Democrats have put in place.....then lets talk what is fair for EVERYONE......

No more farm programs....all crop subsidies end today. No subsidized crop insurance. (why should I help pay if you get hailed out. too bad.) 
No more itemized tax deductions for ANYONE including farmers. Including any depreciation on any and all farm eqpt. Again why should I subsidize yours or anyone else's business. We all get the personal deduction. That's it. Run it at a profit or find something else to do. This would pretty much eliminate family farms. Huge corporate farms would become the norm.

No more Vets programs. Close VA hospitals. They can go to the same doctors and hospitals we all do. Our military is volunteer. If you don't like it. Don't enlist.
All overseas bases close and come home. Could then reduce military....Eliminate duplication in military. Close more bases in the US. To bad if it affects a local economy. They didn't close enough the last time. Eliminate the huge waste because administrators are afraid if they don't spend as much as they did last year, they are out the money. Even if the don't need it.

Eliminate all federal employees retirement and insurance programs. Save your own money and pay your own insurance like the rest of us......as stated in the posts above. If there in no SS for the rest of us. Why should I pay for theirs. This includes Senators and House members.

No collecting Workman's Compensation or Unemployment Compensation.

Cut back on oversized Federal Agencies. Eliminate top heavy departments.

Eliminate welfare and any other federal social program for the poor and lower middle class. If there has to be many many homeless shelters because millions don't have SS to depend on any more.....lets raise our taxes to build them. Either that or let them die. After all we aren't willing to force them to pay in during the years they work.

These are just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could think of some more. But if we cut some for me. Then we cut yours also.

Aren't there options and things we can do instead of all those things above? Aren't we better off fixing them instead of eliminating all of them? Saying eliminate what I don't like but keeping everything I do like Is Fair????? That's the reason I became a Democrat over 40 years ago.....Reagan's Republican attitude of " I got mine, Screw you."


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

Very good post and I don't disagree with you. The problem is that when the government takes money from you they squander it. Or they rob from the program to fund something else. Or they eat up a portion of it through adminstration fees to implement and run it. They know they can get more because it's a tax so what the heck. Then you reach a point of no return where the sides involved can't agree on how to fix it and we are where we are. I have no problems with programs if they are handled properly but that NEVER happens in government. If social security is a retirement program why if I have paid in say $500,000 dollars over 35 years why can I not take that out over a period of years or if I die my beneficiary receives it? Where did the money go that I sweated and literally spilled my blood for go? Why should I have to worry about dying to early to receive it? I could just as well taken it to Vegas and had one heck of a good time and maybe hit it big and increase my retirement. But no. I have lived a hard life working outdoors all my life. Had a few work related accidents for which there is no workers comp or paid time off when you are a farm operator and my odds of living must past retirement age are not good. I just don't like Uncle Sam forcing me to do something against my will because others are not responsible enough to take care of themselves. I give to many charities, my local church and volunteer my time to help the needy. I am tired, make less than than the farm help I cant afford to hire, and everyone wants more. I don't get it. Never will.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

While we are cutting government spending, you forgot about cutting funding for schools and colleges. I am for cutting all of that stuff.

Ken you forget to remember, with more money if your pocket, you will be able to give money to others. If you had an extra $10,000 in your pocket at the end of the year, you might choose to donate to a charity of your choice, your church, go on a vacation, add on to your house, invest in a business, or hoard it. It's your choice! More money in your pocket helps the poor more then you think. Not everyone will be a miser. If I could I would love to donate more, but I simply don't have the extra funds as our government ALWAYS needs more money to piss away.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Slash it by a minimum of 40%


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I pretty much agree......There is way to much spent by governments that I shouldn't have to pay for. The next thing is to eliminate professional lobbying. ND initiate measure 1. No more accepting things from lobbyists. Lower maximum amount that can be given to candidates. I'm sure glad I don't have to see any more political ads from Kramer and Heitkamp. Thank god for fast forward on the remote.

Term limits on all public offices including the Supreme Court. 30 and 40 year terms are ridiculous.Need new blood more often. If 8 years is enough for president, it's enough for the rest to

One thing I would still like to see is continued education help. Especially for kids wanting to go to college and trade schools. Maybe no or low interest loans. If we can have sports scholarships......then we can help other kids to.


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## speckline (Dec 13, 2008)

Wow Ken. I agree! :beer:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

OH YEAH.....now about medical and drug costs. Outrageous what is being charged for going to a hospital. I recently went in for a knee replacement surgery. It cost $55,000. I said are you kidding me??? The surgeon did 6 a day. That's $330,000 a day. 1 doctor!!!! I was also in an accident 7 years ago. Had to be flown 10 miles to the hospital in a helicopter.....$12,000. Costs more now. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Some meds are costing some people where they have to decide.....medicate or eat. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: People with pre existing conditions look at hopeless medical costs just to stay alive.Why are the same meds in other countries that are manufactured here cost A LOT more here??? I don't know what the answer is. I know conservatives want less government. But this is probably one area where the government needs to step in.

I know you don't like Obama Care. But it can't be eliminated w/o something to replace it. It will get to the point where only the rich can go to the hospital and buy drugs.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

KEN W said:


> OH YEAH.....now about medical and drug costs. Outrageous what is being charged for going to a hospital. I recently went in for a knee replacement surgery. It cost $55,000. I said are you kidding me??? The surgeon did 6 a day. That's $330,000 a day. 1 doctor!!!! I was also in an accident 7 years ago. Had to be flown 10 miles to the hospital in a helicopter.....$12,000. Costs more now. :eyeroll: :eyeroll:
> 
> Some meds are costing some people where they have to decide.....medicate or eat. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: People with pre existing conditions look at hopeless medical costs just to stay alive.Why are the same meds in other countries that are manufactured here cost A LOT more here??? I don't know what the answer is. I know conservatives want less government. But this is probably one area where the government needs to step in.
> 
> I know you don't like Obama Care. But it can't be eliminated w/o something to replace it. It will get to the point where only the rich can go to the hospital and buy drugs.


The FREE MARKET will lower costs. Competition brings cost down. If I can sell you something for $100, Plainsman will sell it for $90, and speckline will try to sell it at $105.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Now as for the military.....any serious wounds or problems caused by beig in the military should be taken care of.

Problem is none of it will happen because no one wants to give up what's THEIRS.

And I wouldn't either w/o Quid Pro Quo. "a Latin phrase that literally means "something for something," or "this for that."


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Eliminate all federal employees retirement and insurance programs.


 This is going to surprise you even though I explained it to a couple fellows on here a half dozen times. The old civil service was sort of save your own. People think gov employees get a salary plus benefits. Not the way it works. Let's say you take a job for $50k. Under the civil service every two week pay check has retirement taken out, health insurance taken out, SS taken out, Fed tax taken out, state taxes, and if you enrol your life insurance. Do you know how Reagan saved social security? He raided the privately funded Fed retirement system. Fed retirement isn't in the top 500 for retirement anymore. The new Reagan retirement called FIRS is about 2% of your salary, 1/2 of your AS, plus they match up to 6% of your savings which can be 6% of you salary. So if you don't save and only get 1/2 The SS you paid for your crazy to work for the gov today.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Fox News/October 11....."I can tell you Matt Whitaker is a great guy, I mean I know Matt Whitaker."

November 2....."I don't know Matt Whitaker. He worked for Jeff Sessions. He was always extremely highly thought of and still is. But I didn't know Matt Whitaker."

More lies.....what else is new. He can Hardly open his mouth w/o lying. Yet that's just fine with the far right conservatives.They don't 
care if he lies all the time. uke: uke: uke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Did you notice there is voter fraud in Broward county Florida. The same lady has been convicted before. She found thousands of missing votes. This tri k is worn out for the democrats.

https://www.wnd.com/2018/11/broward-cou ... ote-fraud/

https://www.peoplespunditdaily.com/news ... g-ballots/

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/1 ... rd-county/

https://www.breitbart.com/midterm-elect ... d-ballots/

There are dozens more articles on Brenda Snipes. All politicians are a little shady, but the democrats are professionals. They have been committing voter fraud as far back as I can remember. They think it's funny that dead people voted in Chicago and perhaps put Kennedy in the oval office. When they loose they attack the winner and the American system. Is honesty that repulsive to them?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I know you didn't make the mistake on purpose.......So I'm correcting it for you

"All politicians are a little shady, but Trump is a professional." :thumb:

What will the NEW House work on first next year?......Oversight Committee....Subpoena power to investigate the payments Tiny Trump made to his 2 women friends during the campaign. Cohen says Trump told him to make them. :eyeroll:

You want to talk about possible fraud.....how about a governor in charge of his own election recount??? :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Here is a real professional for you to consider.

If you connect the dots in this info below is even close to what is and isn't true, you can bet the Trump team knows all about it:

From 2001 to 2005 there was an ongoing investigation into the Clinton Foundation.

A Grand Jury had been empanelled.

Governments from around the world had donated to the "Charity".

Yet, from 2001 to 2003 none of those "Donations" to the Clinton Foundation were declared.

Hmmm, now you would think that an honest investigator would be able to figure this out.

Guess who took over this investigation in 2002?

Bet you can't guess.

None other than James Comey.

Now, that's interesting, isn't it?

Guess who was transferred in to the Internal Revenue Service to run the Tax Exemption Branch of the IRS?

Your friend and mine, Lois "Be on The Look Out" (BOLO) Lerner.

Now, that's interesting, isn't it?

It gets better, well not really, but this is all just a series of strange coincidences, right?

Guess who ran the Tax Division inside the Department of Injustice from 2001 to 2005?

No other than the Assistant Attorney General of the United States, Rod Rosenstein.

Now, that's interesting, isn't it?

Guess who was the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation during this time frame?

I know, it's a miracle, just a coincidence, just an anomaly in statistics and chances, but it was Robert Mueller.

What do all four casting characters have in common?

They all were briefed and/or were front line investigators into the Clinton Foundation Investigation.

Now that's just a coincidence, right?

Ok, lets chalk the last one up to mere chance.

Let's fast forward to 2009......

James Comey leaves the Justice Department to go and cash-in at Lockheed Martin.

Hillary Clinton is running the State Department, on her own personal email server by the way.

The Uranium One "issue" comes to the attention of the Hillary.

Like all good public servants do, you know looking out for America's best interest, she decides to support the decision and approve the sale of 20% of US Uranium to no other than, the Russians.

Now you would think that this is a fairly straight up deal, except it wasn't, the People got absolutely nothing out of it.

However, prior to the sales approval, no other than Bill Clinton goes to Moscow, gets paid 500K for a one hour speech then meets with Vladimir Putin at his home for a few hours.

Ok, no big deal right?

Well, not so fast, the FBI had a mole inside the money laundering and bribery scheme.

Guess who was the FBI Director during this time frame?

Yep, Robert Mueller.

He even delivered a Uranium Sample to Moscow in 2009.

Guess who was handling that case within the Justice Department out of the US Attorney's Office in Maryland?

No other than, Rod Rosenstein.

Guess what happened to the informant?

The Department of Justice placed a GAG order on him and threatened to lock him up if he spoke out about it.

How does 20% of the most strategic asset of the United States of America end up in Russian hands when the FBI has an informant, a mole providing inside information to the FBI on the criminal enterprise?

Guess what happened soon after the sale was approved?

~145 million dollars in "donations" made their way into the Clinton Foundation from entities directly connected to the Uranium One deal.

Guess who was still at the Internal Revenue Service working the Charitable Division?

No other than, Lois Lerner.

Ok, that's all just another series of coincidences, nothing to see here, right?

Let's fast forward to 2015.

Due to a series of tragic events in Benghazi and after the 9 "investigations" the House, Senate and at State Department, Trey Gowdy who was running the 10th investigation as Chairman of the Select Committee on Benghazi discovers that the Hillary ran the State Department on an unclassified, unauthorized, outlaw personal email server.

He also discovered that none of those emails had been turned over when she departed her "Public Service" as Secretary of State which was required by law.

He also discovered that there was Top Secret information contained within her personally archived email.

Sparing you the State Departments cover up, the nostrums they floated, the delay tactics that were employed and the outright lies that were spewed forth from the necks of the Kerry State Department, we shall leave it with this...... they did everything humanly possible to cover for Hillary.

Now this is amazing, guess who became FBI Director in 2013?

Guess who secured 17 no bid contracts for his employer (Lockheed Martin) with the State Department and was rewarded with a six million dollar thank you present when he departed his employer?

No other than James Comey.

Amazing how all those no-bids just went right through at State, huh?

Now he is the FBI Director in charge of the "Clinton Email Investigation" after of course his FBI Investigates the Lois Lerner "Matter" at the Internal Revenue Service and exonerates her.

Nope.... couldn't find any crimes there.

Can you guess what happened next?

In April 2016, James Comey drafts an exoneration letter of Hillary Rodham Clinton, meanwhile the DOJ is handing out immunity deals like candy.

They didn't even convene a Grand Jury.

Like a lightning bolt of statistical impossibility, like a miracle from God himself, like the true "Gangsta" Homey is, James steps out into the cameras of an awaiting press conference on July the 8th of 2016, and exonerates the Hillary from any wrongdoing.

Can you see the pattern?

It goes on and on, Rosenstein becomes Asst. Attorney General, Comey gets fired based upon a letter by Rosenstein, Comey leaks government information to the press, Mueller is assigned to the Russian Investigation sham by Rosenstein to provide cover for decades of malfeasance within the FBI and DOJ and the story continues.

FISA Abuse, political espionage..... pick a crime, any crime, chances are...... this group and a few others did it.

All the same players.

All compromised and conflicted.

All working fervently to NOT go to jail themselves.

All connected in one way or another to the Clinton's.

They are like battery acid, they corrode and corrupt everything they touch.

How many lives have these two destroyed?

As of this writing, the Clinton Foundation, in its 20+ years of operation of being the largest International Charity Fraud in the history of mankind, has never been audited by the Internal Revenue Service.

Let us not forget that Comey's brother works for DLA Piper, the law firm that does the Clinton Foundation's taxes.

And,
See the person that is the common denominator to all the crimes above and still doing her evil escape legal maneuvers at the top of the 3 Letter USA Agencies? Yep, that would be Hillary R. Clinton.

WHO IS LISA BARSOOMIAN?

Let's learn a little about Mrs. Lisa H. Barsoomian's background.

Lisa H. Barsoomian, a US Attorney that graduated from Georgetown Law, is a protege of James Comey and Robert Mueller.

Barsoomian, with her boss R. Craig Lawrence, represented Bill Clinton in 1998.

Lawrence also represented:

Robert Mueller three times;

James Comey five times;

Barack Obama 45 times;

Kathleen Sebelius 56 times;

Bill Clinton 40 times; and

Hillary Clinton 17 times.

Between 1998 and 2017, Barsoomian herself represented the FBI at least five times.

You may be saying to yourself, OK, who cares? Who cares about the

work history of this Barsoomian woman?

Apparently someone does, because someone out there cares so much

that they've "purged" all Barsoomian court documents for her Clinton

representation in Hamburg vs. Clinton in 1998 and its appeal in 1999

from the DC District and Appeals Court dockets (?). Someone out there

cares so much that the internet has been "purged" of all information

pertaining to Barsoomian.

Historically, this indicates that the individual is a protected CIA operative.

Additionally, Lisa Barsoomian has specialized in opposing Freedom of

Information Act requests on behalf of the intelligence community.

And, although Barsoomian has been involved in hundreds of cases

representing the DC Office of the US Attorney, her email address is

Lisa Barsoomian at NIH gov. The NIH stands for National Institutes of

Health.

This is a tactic routinely used by the CIA to protect an operative by

using another government organization to shield their activities.

It's a cover, so big deal right? I mean what does one more attorney

with ties to the US intelligence community really matter?

It deals with Trump and his recent tariffs on Chinese steel and

aluminum imports, the border wall, DACA, everything coming out of

California, the Uni-party unrelenting opposition to President Trump,

the Clapper leaks, the Comey leaks, Attorney General Jeff Sessions

recusal and subsequent 14 month nap with occasional forays into the

marijuana legalization mix .... and last but not least Mueller's

never-ending investigation into collusion between the Trump team and

the Russians.

Why does Barsoomian, CIA operative, merit any mention?

BECAUSE....

She is Assistant Attorney General Rod Rosenstein's WIFE....That's why!!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I have been away for a few days and lots of good discussion...

1. On SS... here is the huge elephant in the room.... PEOPLE LIVE TOO LONG. Think about it. It was meant as a safety net and people retire at 65 and collect for about 10-15 years. People are now living past 80 and 90 years old. The debt is a formula extrapolated to figure the money owed all the baby boomers in SS. With many who retired early and started to collect SS at age 62. So add millions of people collecting 3 years earlier plus living longer.

2. The talk about medical expenses is crazy. A couple reasons why so crazy.( I could go on and on, but I will on hit a couple points.)

- #1 they know insurance will pay for it. It is that point blank. Just like with an auto accident if you say you will pay cash it is always cheaper than what they charge insurance. Also like I have talked about call and ask the cost of a procedure... first thing they will ask is "which insurance company you have" yep price is different for each company. What other industry can get away with that! They should have a fixed price list.

- #2 the cost of medicine.... I was once told it takes about a billion dollars to bring a drug to market and then that company has a strangle hold on that drug and all of its research for 10 years. So they can recoup the costs of it. So no generics, no other company can piggy back of the research and what not to for competition. So yep... that is the reason for the price hikes in the USA. It is our capitalism laws that protect companies. Just saying.

- #3 Ken.. hope you are sitting down... But yes I kind of agree there needs to be something to replace Obamacare before they completely cut it. But again I could type 3 pages on this. But wont.

3. Ken you bring up about Trump and his payments to women. Yep I agree he lied but some of them had non disclosure agreements.... So was he just abiding by them? Also the money spent on them if they came from campaign finances you are correct that is breaking the laws. But others have done it and were just fined... Obama for one. Just saying. It isn't an impeachable offense. Pay the fine and move along. :bop:

4. Term limits... completely agree on this one for sure.

5. The voting stuff in Florida in that county will be very interesting how that turns out. But shows you that voter fraud is more "rampant" that we all think.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Good post Chuck.

Interesting Fox News report that Hillary may run again in 2020. There will be many candidates from the Democrats.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The interesting thing about Hillary is that the democrats in the past loved Russia, and now she blames them for many things. I think they loved communism not so much Russia. Perhaps she needs a war to solidify her power. Abortion is not killing people fast enough for liberals. They have to stop that global warming somehow.



> The Goal Of The God-Hating Left Is The Destruction Of Humanity
> 
> Population control has been on their agenda for decades


https://www.infowars.com/the-goal-of-th ... -humanity/

Crazy, but does make you wonder. I remember years ago liberals walking around trying to get you to take a pledge and wear a button for ZERO population growth. The persons that approached me all had kids of their own already. Maybe they just approached conservatives. :rollin:

My opinion about liberals does not come from the media it comes from personal experiences. My personal experience is no one hates with the passion of a liberal. When I call them the party of perverts I don't mean simply sexual. I have watched them pervert the constitution, the idea of right and wrong, and the worst the liberal churches pervert the Bible and Christianity. Jim Jones and David Koresh were nothing compared to the ELCA and like liberal churches.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

https://fox5sandiego.com/2018/11/13/vid ... der-fence/

I can't remember which thread we talked about the border. Anyway, liberals on the net said they would never get here. They are currently climbing the fence at San Diego. Never was sure a short time. About 80 LGBXYZ are the first to arrive. LGBXYZ's in the U. S. sent busses for them. They say the country they came from and Mexico were prejudice against them. Hmmmm I thought that was only the United States. (sarcasm)

So when do our citizens wise up and stop believing all the liberal bs? Time after time what they say has been proven false.


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