# How far is too far?



## Ande8183 (Sep 18, 2005)

I can understand zero tolerance for weapons in school, but a picture drawn by a second grader? Come on, this crap is just rediculous. Whats next? Take water colors away from Kindergarten, because one of the abstract objects resembles a gun?

Second Grade Student Suspended for Drawing Stick Figure Firing Gun

Sunday, October 21, 2007

Associated Press

DENNIS TOWNSHIP, N.J. - A second-grader's drawing of a stick figure shooting a gun earned him a one-day school suspension.

Kyle Walker, 7, was suspended last week for violating Dennis Township Primary School's zero-tolerance policy on guns, the boy's mother, Shirley McDevitt, told The Press of Atlantic City.

Kyle gave the picture to another child on the school bus, and that child's parents complained about it to school officials, McDevitt said. Her son told her the drawing was of a water gun, she said.

A photocopy of the picture provided by McDevitt showed two stick figures with one pointing a crude-looking gun at the other, the newspaper said. What appeared to be the word "me" was written above the shooter, with another name scribbled above the other figure.

School officials declined to comment Friday. A message left at the superintendent's office Saturday was not returned.

Kyle drew other pictures, including a skateboarder, King Tut, a ghost, a tree and a Cyclops, the newspaper reported.


----------



## h2ofwlr (Feb 6, 2004)

This zero tolerance policies across America is going to end more freedoms in than any legislation ever could. Beware of the thought police in the whole school system right through college. Yup, nothing but zombie thought controlled robots will be produced in the future across America. Damned socialists in the school system. And those socialists will next be turning out Communists, as is "In the name of what is good for the people your personal rights will be null and viod." Hey that is about what Hillary said this past Summer. Yep, she is a Communist, not doubt about it.


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Now I agree that it is a bit ridiculous, but the fact that he a had his name above the shooter and another name above the shootee, might be a cause for concern.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

djleye said:


> Now I agree that it is a bit ridiculous, but the fact that he a had his name above the shooter and another name above the shootee, might be a cause for concern.


A second grader, maybe hes baby face Nelson :wink:

When I was little kid my dad was apilot and I drew fighter jets bombing ships ect all the time.

Just curious does the zero tolerance crowd prohibit kids from bringing their F-16s to school nowadays. :roll:

Zero tolerance = zero common sense


----------



## Turner (Oct 7, 2005)

Just saw this thread and realized that my youngest (7) drew herself and her neighbor buddy goose hunting. The picture was of her shooting geese with a shotgun in her hand and the shot pattern heading towards a flock of geese. This was on the back side of her homework, they are working on telling time, so part of her homework was to draw something you would like to do and then draw clock face showing what time they would be doing it. Let's see if the teacher says anything about this.

gotta love ND kids, they draw about hunting


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

they will probably handcuff her because of the extreme threat she poses :eyeroll:


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Bob, All I am saying is if the kid had Little Jimmys name over the kid getting gunned down his parents should maybe talk with him about his hostility. I don't think he should be expelled!!


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> but the fact that he a had his name above the shooter and another name above the shootee, might be a cause for concern.


Good point. When you seriously think about it and get past the PC out of control mood you have to ask yourself where did the kid get the idea of entertaining the thought of shooting someone he may disagree with. Seems to me the real story and danger has been lost with anger over what some see as PC out of control.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Just an observation but when me and Plainsman were kids( Geez, I'm starting to sound like my dad :roll: ) they didn't make a federal case out of two kids getting in a fist fight, now they do.
Down here they actauly press charges for assault and battery ect. seems crazy to me.

I've wondered if they let the kids settle things before they escalate to real violence maybe guns would never be considered. I was in my share of scuffles when I was a kid and some of my opponents became my best friends.

I realize a lot of other things in society have changed also but human anture hasn't kids will have little spats once and a while and if you let them work it out they will.

Meeting after school at the "bike racks"was a normal thing for kids when I was a pup.

When Plainsman was a kid they met at the "horse racks" :lol:


----------



## jdpete75 (Dec 16, 2003)

> Her son told her the drawing was of a water gun,


 Maybe there are no anger issues here at all, and the picture in question was indeed of said 7 year old handily dousing an opponent. When I was in school if you werent packing some H20 to defend yourself with you were more than likely gonna look like you pizzed your pants.

Im not sayin, Im just sayin

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/offbeat/ ... spe_1.html

there is a link to the picture, also an interesting read. Although Im not sure if it is serious or tongue in cheek


----------



## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Seriously, the kid DOES look like the spawn of Satan. I mean those beady red eyes and all?!?


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

He would scare the hell out of most teachers :lol: :lol: :lol: .

It would sure scare the heck out of me if he sent that message of impending doom to me. :-?

Looks like one mean hombre to me.

We are so pathetically politically correct about every little thing, its really going to doom this country. A cute little kid that has no idea what the fuss is about caught up in something like this its realy disgusting when you think about it.

My entire childhood was spent playing cowbowys and (dare I say) indians with cap guns and rubber knives.

Havent shot anyone that didn't richly deserve it, yet.


----------



## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

just lookin at that picture, and seeing a couple of smiling faces, I would have to assume the kid was being honest about the water gun.

If it was truly a real gun, and he was expressing anger, they wouldnt be smiley faces.


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Yep. now that I see the picture, I agree!!!!

Bob, were you the cowbot or the Indian??? I bet you didn't know how un- PC you truly were!!!! :lol:


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I agree it was overboard.....

But you have to look at what is on the news almost weekly. Some kid planning a school shooting, some kid bringing guns to school, some kid making threats towards schools......it is in the paper or news about every week.

So teachers are just over reacting to everything and being very or over cautious.

Just put yourself in the teachers spot.....you seen this picture and do nothing. Next day he comes in and guns down the other kid. ALL LEGAL HELL would break loose. Let alone what would be going through the teachers mind that they could have stopped this.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

:lol: :lol: :lol: I knew it...


----------



## Ande8183 (Sep 18, 2005)

Chuck,

We are talking about a 2nd grader, not someone who is in junior high. My buddies oldest son walks around the house shooting the wildlife mounts with toy guns quite frequently, and I would never mistake him for a murderer. The teachers need to be educated on what to look for, and what is just children playing. There are several cases similar to this one, where adults have overreacted and disciplined children for harmless acts of imagination. Another one of these cases was about 5 years ago (not totally sure on the date) in NJ where 4 kindergarteners were suspended for playing cops and robbers on the playground. So back to the title of this post, How far is too far? IMO this is way too far. We are teaching our children to be robots.


----------



## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

djleye said:


> Bob, All I am saying is if the kid had Little Jimmys name over the kid *getting gunned down *his parents should maybe talk with him about his hostility. I don't think he should be expelled!!


I ADDED THE BOLD AND UNDERLINE, MSG RUDE

dj,

Don't take this wrong but this right here is a problem. "getting gunned down"? Holy cow! No one is getting 'gunned down'. Sounds like the Forum Newspaper has another writer out there.

Two kids smiling. One squirting the other with a squirt gun. No 'X's over the eyes like a child would draw meaning death. No body on the ground. No spurting blood.

Over stating does nothing for the subject, just makes it seem worse.

Sorry but this gets to me sometimes.


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I agree that they went too far. A second grader really should not pose a threat. But with all the school shootings that have happened and kids seeing this. You just never know.

How about a few years ago when a Kindergardner (I think) brought a parents loaded hand gun to school for show and tell. All it would have taken is the kid to pull the trigger and an accident could have happened.

TO suspend the kid is harsh. They should have talked with the kid and asked what the picture is about. THen deal with it if it seemed to be harmful.

Teachers are over reacting. But alot of times there hands are tied because of school district rules.


----------



## 308 (Jul 10, 2007)

In second grade I did the same thing

THE KID IS :evil:, MAN


----------



## MSG Rude (Oct 6, 2003)

308 said:


> In second grade I did the same thing
> 
> THE KID IS :evil:, MAN


" I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!!"


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

I still think most of you are missing the real point here. All this talk about I use to play cowboys and Indians and my little Jimmy goes around shooting pictures of game in the living room is apples to oranges. The boy drew a picture of himself shooting someone else that he knew. Yes it could have been a water gun as claimed but that could also have been a after thought to stay out of trouble. And this thing about no X's on the eyes, come on now that's not something a child would think of. Should the boy have been expelled from school? In my opinion absolutely not. Should the boy have been talked to to see what he was thinking? Of course he should have. Should someone have looked to see if there was a problem in this boys life that needed to be addressed? Of course they should have.

It is easy to get ****** at the media and their out of control PC correctness and to throw stones at the school officials. But have all of you forgotten that in 2000 a 6 year old boy in Michigan **** a loaded gun to school and shot a 6 year old girl dead because he didn't like her. It not only could happen, it did happen. Where this boys mind set is today at age 7 could very well set the stage for when he reaches the 11-14 year old bracket where we have more than enough school shooters to fill this forum up. I never drew a picture of myself shooting someone with any type gun I knew by name as a kid. Did you?


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

:roll:

A innner city black future thug living in a crack house with his uncle and the shooting was with a gun that was reported stolen months before.

Thats specifically why teachers should use judgement instead of zero tolerance.

Apples and oranges plain as day to anyone with a brain

http://www.wzzm13.com/printfullstory.aspx?storyid=25014


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

MSG Rude said:


> djleye said:
> 
> 
> > Bob, All I am saying is if the kid had Little Jimmys name over the kid *getting gunned down *his parents should maybe talk with him about his hostility. I don't think he should be expelled!!
> ...


Sorry, but if you point a gun at someone, was he looking to wound someone??? I said that after seeing the picture, I was wrong. :roll:


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> Apples and oranges plain as day to anyone with a brain


Does it make a difference where the gun came from or is it more important to find out why the kid thought it ok to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. The little girl that was killed was white if that makes a difference to you. Personally I would suspect she didn't care where the gun came from. Either way it doesn't change the fact a 6 year old killed another 6 year old in school with a gun. If that were your daughter I'm sure you would just pass it off as some poor inner city black kid or how was it your put it, " black future thug". With that kind of thinking I guess we just round up all the black 6 year olds in that neighborhood and execute them. Kind of a holocaust in reverse to cleans the world of future thugs. Your constant insults to those that post opposite of your view is certainly noted though.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Not an insult just explaining to you know why its not plain as day to you 

But the holocaust, round them all up rant ect is typical PC nonsense and something I never said, note that also.


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> Not an insult just explaining to you know why its not plain as day to you


It's a insult and you just did it again with what you think is witty and funny. The holocaust comment isn't PC but merely a reflection of your own words which shows anyone reading what your true thought process is. You're a real winner Mr. moderator.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

cwoparson said:


> > Not an insult just explaining to you know why its not plain as day to you
> 
> 
> It's a insult and you just did it again with what you think is witty and funny. The holocaust comment isn't PC but merely a reflection of your own words which shows anyone reading what your true thought process is. You're a real winner Mr. moderator.


Not really, what it is is a PC reaction to the truth which cannot ever be stated due to the ridiculous PC world we live in today.

He is a future inner city black thug that lives in a crack house and the gun was stolen thats fact plain and simple.

Now the idea that you claim the actions of someone like that are no different than the little suburban white kid riding his bike in the picture above and drawing pictures of sqirting his best friend with a squirt gun is typical of the mindless psycobabble of the mindless PC.

They are totally different situations and anyone with a brain would see that( I was originally meaning the folks that set the no tolerance policies)
although you apparently do fall into the same crowd so I will include you as well.

The crazy PC cultures wishfull thinking and wanting to believe we are all equal is why this country is unable to logically deal with its problems.

There is no way that the two kids should be treated equally their situations are vastly different.But ZERO TOLERANCE does just that.

As to what my true thought process is, you can't and definitely don't know that, and therefore choose to state what you "think" it is. In the classic PC response, if you dont agree with them they are racist , Nazi, ect. :eyeroll:

Its idiotic positions like this that keep ghetto kids down, no one black or white in leadership dares call a spade a spade and actaully deals with problems because they will be crusified by the media and its PC mirmadons.


----------



## CoyoteBlitz (Apr 11, 2007)

Bobm said:


> Just an observation but when me and Plainsman were kids( Geez, I'm starting to sound like my dad :roll: ) they didn't make a federal case out of two kids getting in a fist fight, now they do.
> 
> I've wondered if they let the kids settle things before they escalate to real violence maybe guns would never be considered. I was in my share of scuffles when I was a kid and some of my opponents became my best friends.
> 
> ...


I sure wish they would let us work things out ourselves at school. Drag the little turd out at recess and give him a whuppin. Just today a this little *** was picking his scabs and then wiped it all over the back of my shirt, he's lucky I can control myself. I sure know if we settled things ourselves a lot of little trouble causing ****heads would get put in their place and then there would be no more fights b/c there wouldn't be any trouble causing ****heads.


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> Its idiotic positions like this that keep ghetto kids down


No, what keeps ghetto kids down is people that form the opinion that at 6 years old the kid is automatically a future thug to be and it is a waste of time to even bother to change things. A sad but true position some people such as yourself think and practice. Must be nice up on the pedestal.

My post had nothing to do as to whether the suspension of the boy was PC out of control or not but in my opinion the school had no choice due to todays violence in school by young children. How that violence has developed is another matter. I don't like PC and I don't practice it. But before I jump into that pretty pool of water for a swim I like to know what is under the surface. You on the other had seem to be willing to just follow the crowd over the cliff because it is vogue and gives you a standing among your associated crowd you desire to hang with. All you have to do is do a google search and you will find dozens of school shootings by 6-13 year olds in the last ten years and the majority were by kids no one thought was capable of doing something like that.

I'll not stoop to you level by calling you brainless as you did to me twice but I'll tell you your thinking is missing the key ingredient of common sense. If you had that then you would know as stated before it doesn't matter if the gun is stolen, was a gift or he just found it, and his home environment may or may not play a part as to why the boy thought it alright to shoot a classmate to death. I doubt at his age he had any real conception as to what the consequences of his actions were. Unless someone told him because he was a black ghetto boy that he was a automatic street thug when he grew up. :eyeroll: Since the neighborhood he lived in was 60% black and 40% white I'm not even sure ghetto is proper here.

Guess I'll just join the dozens of others on this site that you have insulted with with your cheap remarks. Makes a person wonder about the integrity of this site and it's administrator to allow you to continue as you do. Post what you want as I'm sure you will. As I believe a lot of others have decided, you're not worth the effort to discuss anything with as you can't lay off the insults.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

*CWOparson said*

Quote "No, what keeps ghetto kids down is people that form the opinion that at 6 years old the kid is automatically a future thug "

*Bob Says*
Lets look at the facts I know thats a change of pace for you but lets give it ago :wink: At 6 years old hes living in a crack house with his drug dealing uncle, and is a murderer so your are correct hes not a future thug hes already a thug.

*CWO PARSON SAID*
quote "and his home environment may or may not play a part as to why the boy thought it alright to shoot a classmate to death."

*Bob Says*
DUh, it may not ??? :roll:

*cwoparson said *
"As I believe a lot of others have decided, you're not worth the effort to discuss anything with as you can't lay off the insults "

*Bob Says*
Such as you insinuating I am a nazi typical mindless "if you cant deal with facts" then attack personally.

Typical PC mindless nonsense

*cwo parson said* 
Quote "and it is a waste of time to even bother to change things. "

*Bob Says*
I never said that,you did, typical PC nonsense again state that someone said something they didn't and then critisize the statment they didn't even make, impressive tactic.

Politically correct BS like this is why things don't change, if you cannot clearly define a problem( and your PC views make that impossible) nothing can be changed.


----------

