# Our schools are letting down our students



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

December 10, 2004

Two apparently unrelated stories that appeared in newspapers on the same day are in reality not nearly as unrelated as they might seem. One story appeared under the headline, "High School Students Debate Steroid Ethics." The other story had the headline: "Economic Time Bomb: U.S. Teens Are Among Worst at Math."

We have known for a long time that teenagers in Japan scored much higher on international math tests than American teenagers do. But did you know that teenagers in Poland, the Slovak Republic, Iceland, Canada, and Korea -- among other places -- also score higher than our teenagers? Out of 29 countries whose teenagers took a recent international math test, American teenagers ranked 24th. Americans also scored near the bottom on tests of general problem-solving.

What about the ethics of using steroids? Kids can talk about this at home or on the streets or just about anywhere. What about the ethics of using up precious school time for such chatter when there are serious deficiencies in our children's ability to measure up to international standards in an increasingly competitive international economy? Presiding over classroom chatter is no doubt a lot easier than teaching the Pythagorean theorem or differential calculus. But teachers who indulge themselves like this, at the expense of their students' future, have no business conducting discussions of "ethics" about athletes using steroids -- or any other ethics issue. Jason Giambi may have done some damage to his own career, and to George Steinbrenner's pocketbook, by taking steroids. But that is nothing compared to the damage done to schoolchildren whose time is frittered away talking about it when there is serious work that remains undone.

With all the outcry about the "outsourcing" of American jobs, especially in computer work, there has been relatively little said about the importing of brains from foreign countries to do mentally challenging work here because the brains of our own students have simply not been adequately developed in our schools. For years, most of the Ph.D.s awarded by American universities in mathematics and engineering have gone to foreigners. We have the finest graduate schools in the world -- so fine that our own American students have trouble getting admitted in fields that require highly trained minds.

A finer breakdown of American teenagers' test scores shows that while white and Asian American students meet international standards in math, blacks and Hispanics fall well below those standards. Those students who are already less fortunate have the most to lose by turning classrooms into chatter sessions. The children of affluent and well-educated parents can learn a lot at home, even if the schools waste their time on "activities" and "projects." But the kid from a low-income family in the ghetto or barrio usually has just one shot at a decent life -- and that shot is in the school. Teachers who fail to equip these youngsters with mental skills send them out into the battles of life unarmed.

Teachers who think they are doing something good for those kids by sympathetically dwelling on racial grievances are giving them chips to carry on their shoulders instead of brainpower in their heads. Is anybody going to be more employable with a chip on his shoulders? Is anybody more likely to be work hard on improving himself when he is led to believe that his problems are caused by other people? The message that gets through to many minority youngsters is that you are a chump for trying when The Man is not going to let you get anywhere anyway. Those minority students who still try hard are often accused of "acting white" -- and that accusation can bring anything from social ostracism to outright violence.

Schools that give easy grades are setting their students up for a very hard life without the skills to compete. Instead of giving students and their parents a realistic picture of where they are, while there is still time to do something about it, schools are passing the job of confronting reality on to employers who get these youngsters when it is usually too late. Yet schools think they are teaching "ethics" when their whole abdication of adult responsibility is profoundly immoral.


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## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

Interesting - I wonder if the article was written by someone who has actually taught in the classroom. It's funny how non educators try to tell educators how to do things...that's why the No Child Left Behind Act will fail.

I read in a lot of places where students in other countires are testing higher than US students. What they don't tell you is the fact that many of these countries only test their elite, where we test everybody. Would make sense that our national average is lower. At least we give all of our students a fair shake at education. In many countries, if students don't cut it in a normal school setting, they are educated to do manual labor type jobs, so they are never tested like the elite.

It also bothers me that schools and teachers are being blamed for the lack of growth of our students. Granted, there are some teachers that do struggle, but WHAT ABOUT PARENTS? It's pretty darn tough to teach biology in your classroom and also be expected to take the place of a parent, which is happening more and more now.

I laugh at the easy grades comment. We live in a "feel good society" where we have to make everyone feel good, whether they deserve it or not. It's not education's fault, it's the fault of society.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Thomas Sowell wrote the article, heres his backgound you can judge for yourself if he qualifies as a educator. The point of the story is not that some testing variation might skew things, (which it doesn't thats just an excuse) the point is that educators all too frequently are more interested in some ajenda than in pure instruction. And I can tell you that when I see some of the stuff that my kids have to do I want to scream. I was educated in the 50's and 60's and we learned basic reading, writing, science and math, and had daily physical ed. Todays students are fatter and weaker in both mind and body. Ethics and disipline were the responsibility of our parents, not the teachers. The US is steadily falling behind other countries in science and engineering and we are slowly being dumbed down with a politically correct curriculum. Goosepride I'm guessing if thats your picture on the post that you're a lot younger than I and your generation will suffer the most from this.
Mr. Sowells statistics follow, hes a black educator as you might gather and a very smart man.

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A.B. in Economics, magna cum laude, Harvard College, 1958

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Senior Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, September 1980 - present 
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Visiting Professor of Economics, Amherst College, September- December 1977 
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Conquests and Cultures (Basic Books, 1998) 
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The Vision of the Anointed (Basic Books, 1995) 
Race and Culture: A World View ( Basic Books,1994 ) 
A Conflict of Visions (William Morrow, 1987) 
Ethnic America (Basic Books, 1981) 
Knowedge and Decisions (Basic Books, 1980)
Classical Economics Reconsidered (Princeton University Press, 1974) 
Say's Law: An Historical Analysis (Princeton Univ.Press, 1972)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Goospride your right about other countries testing their elite. In China only about two to three percent, maybe less, get to go to college. I also agree with Bob about a feel good society that jeopardizes the integrity of our education system . I also know that fault lies with all society. I think no child left behind is a pipe dream. Not all kids are little Einstein's . Some must be left behind. The feel good will wince at that statement, but it is true. Some are best in college, and some are better sealomg more manual labor. You will notice I did not give an example of other than college. That is because I respect anyone that works. There are no jobs than anyone should be ashamed of. It is this attitude that makes parents think that little Johnny is a looser if he doesn't go to college. We have placed a very bad stigma on very important jobs. We need more money for out gifted, and more money for out technical training schools.


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## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

You both make very good points. Bob - I agree with you, our society as a whole is soft. As far as what is on the agenda; our agenda is strictly to teach to a test because everyone's job depends on it. No Child Left Behind Act pretty much makes us do that. I think that's fine to an extent, but you lose out of some "outside the lines" education which quite frankly doesn't happen at home as much as it should.

Yes, our generation will suffer, but at the same time I think my generation will pave the way back to the way it should be. I'm 28 now, teach business education classes, and also realize our society has grown way too soft. Although young, I do remember some of the ways I was brought up which were all great. A person can't get away with some of those things now because we'll hurt people's feelings and end up in jail.

Parents and educators need to be given more leeway when it comes to discipline without fear of losing a job or going to jail. I'm not talking about beating the crap out of a kid, I'm talking about discipline. I think we will get back to that.

I just don't agree that "educators" aren't doing the job. It takes a whole society to educate someone, life and education isn't only learned from 9-3 in my opinion.

Just my thoughts...


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> I just don't agree that "educators" aren't doing the job. It takes a whole society to educate someone, life and education isn't only learned from 9-3 in my opinion.


I agree with that 100%, I just see the sheer ignorance and lack of basic skills in many high school graduates that come to me looking for work. They literally cannot read and write and yet the have supposedly satisfactorily completed the high school curriculum, how does that happen?
We both know thats a rhetorical question, its political correctness gone wild. Its more important not to hurt their self esteem. Of course when they get out in the real world I hurt their esteem in the cruelest way possible. I tell them they are too ignorant to work for me or anyone else that runs a business. I recommend they go back to school ( although I'm at a loss as to where to tell them to go ) and get at least basic math and reading skills. I have actaully had some of them break down and cry over this. That really hurts, I'm definitely not the ogre everyone suspects.
Goosepride I'm sure your not one of the people I'm referring to but somehow you have to be one of the people that changes this. We are continuously graduating high school idiots that can't read and write at a 4th grade level. I'm not exaggerating about their proficiency level, my kids ( educated in a private Catholic grammar school) could write better than these people as early grammar school students.
If social promotions are not stopped it will end our leadership in the world.
There is a helicopter plant here in Georgia that cannot fill $18.00 per hour jobs because the people in the area cannot read and do the math required. And their requirements are not more than a high school student should be able to do. I don't think that a kid should be taught anything but the three R's until they are extremely proficient then and only then should additional subjects be taught. Without those basics all other subjects cannot be understood. Class time spent on anything else is robbing these kids of precious time and thats where the politically correct " projects" are harming them. I think all " educators" should be required to work in the business world for a period of 10 years before they are allowed to teach and that teachers that do so should be then paid well, at the level they earned in the corporate world as a starting point. Far too many go from behind a students desk to the position behind the teachers desk without a taste of the real world, thus they have no idea what its like outside of academic la la land and whats really required in the private sector.
:beer: Wish I was up there hunting this week.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"I agree with that 100%, I just see the sheer ignorance and lack of basic skills in many high school graduates that come to me looking for work. They literally cannot read and write and yet the have supposedly satisfactorily completed the high school curriculum, how does that happen?"

I am disgusted by this as well. It seems that many kids see smoking pot and getting boozed up on the weekends while in high school is better spent time than trying to get decent grades. This is just another sign of bad parenting. Parents these days would rather sheild their children from things in their early lives, such as drugs and violence as opposed to explaining to them why such things are bad. A case in point is the saving private ryan movie that was taken off the airways on veterans day. Instead of sitting their children down, and telling them that war is hell, and should never be repeated they just cut out the program altogether. The education system most certainly needs to be reformed, but even at its best it will do little with poor parenting at home.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

I agree. the Kids at the public schools in my area are seriously lacking. I was a C student at best in my private high school, and even i was amazed at many of the things they didn't know how to do, which I thought were basics.

Many of the kids were very smart. smarter than me at some things, like upper level math, but they didn't know how to do the basic stuff!

The kids there are taking weird classes like ceramics and racquet ball...WHAT THE HEY!?!?!?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Hey MT, as often as I get on you case when I think your wrong I must be fair and commend you when you are right. Your post on education and parents was right on the mark.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

I would have to say that many teachers, usually public school teachers, have an agenda. I have a teaching degree and taught full time for one year in Kansas City. I now just substitute teach in the winter and am self-employeed in the summer. I am amazed at what I see and hear in the public schools from many faculty members. They are overwhelmingly slanted to the left. I can give you examples of teachers totally bashing George Bush and telling High school seniors ridiculous lies to try and get them to be anti Republican and George Bush. I was even in a public school where a teacher had a picture of John Kerry on the door telling students to vote for him in the upcoming election. Can you imagine what would happen if another teacher or myself put up a picture of George Bush in a classroom and asked students to vote for him. I was also subbing in another government class where the students asked me who I voted for. I said "George Bush", the whole class gave me this look like I was a monster. And then this one girl in the front row says, "you voted for a man who is going to start the draft again." I said to her, where did you get that, she responded, "our teacher told us that if George Bush gets re-elected the draft will start again". This is the crap that is being taught to high school seniors. I have also spent time subbing in private schools and my wife has taught in private school for 7 years. The environment isn't nearly as liberal, although I'm sure there is some liberal teachers, they just aren't the outspoken majority. One of the biggest problem I see with public schools is teacher unions or more specifically the NEA. The NEA is one of the largest unions in the nations and has tremendous power. The NEA is also very liberal and very Democrat. My endorsement is in Phys Ed. and Health and can tell you that if the NEA had it their way sex ed would be taught to first graders. Included in their curriculum would be that gay and lesbian lifestyle is an acceptable alternative lifestyle. The NEA is very scarry. Once a public school teacher is tenured and he or she is a member of the NEA you can't get rid of them without years of legal fighting and many rural schools don't have the money to take on the NEA. So the school it stuck with a horrible teacher until they retire or quit. I think we have all had a teacher like that. Who pays the price, the children. I will say that there are some really good public school teacher and we need more of them. I not trying to make a blanket statement and totally bash public schools. But this is what I have seen from teaching full time one year and subbing for the past 6 years.


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

Our ND teachers are well qualified! As a Adjunct Prof. and past Elem. teacher I find many of the ND college students leaving our state to go teach in southern states or where they have more people = more tax payers for public education.

College students are required to take a Pre-Professional Skills test that have high bench marks. If you don't pass, you have no college degree and of course no teaching license. In MN they have a Pre-Professional Skills test and another that is taken based on your education degree (early childhood, elementary, etc.).

I could go on and on... It just get's my blood boiling!

I think what is the scariest part of all of this is our youngest children get no attention from our current governor. It's all about K-12 and Higher Ed. What about pre-birth to age three? A child's brain has more neurons these first three years of life and acts like a sponge.

No Child Left Behind&#8230; It has positive and negative points to consider.

If you want to make a difference talk to your local child care professionals. They are making a difference, if it's developmentally appropriate.

Ok...Ok... Another point. I watched the local news tonight and notice a Elem. teacher talking about how she had 28 years of exp. and she thinks she does quality work. I think not, if she isn't doing developmentally appropriate learning centers, activities, connecting with parents and the community.

If you visit this website they will fill you in how important our youngest children are in our current society.

zerotothree.org

Cheers to our ND Early Childhood and Elem. Teachers!


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

Good points DeltaBoy,

You are obviously more qualified to talk about early childhood development than myself. I have substitute taught on all levels K-12 grade and every subject. There is a huge difference between a weathy grade school on the westside in the burbs, and the inner city grade school on the north side. Those children don't seem to have a chance. They are way behind academically. They have major discipline problems and on and on. It is in those inner city schools where I hear teachers *****ing about "no child left behind" the most. Granted I don't know all the workings of the No child left behind policy, but I see it as the federal government at least trying to raise the bar on public education. I would guess that most schools in North Dakota are good or even great. But there are many inner city public schools that are horrible. I mean graduating students who can't even read or bearly write. Obviously a student left behind and just pushed through the system. 
The problem I see with these students and inner city students as a whole, is they don't have much or any support at home. Very few have a nuclear family. They might have a mom, but few dads involved in their lives. Drug addiction and crime run rampet.
What are some suggestion you have for the governor of North Dakota on early childhood development? Is throwing money at programs really going to do anything? Just kind of curious


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Deltaboy, I am not trying to get into a pi$$ing match about this, but don't you think the PPST is a joke? My dad wanted me to be a teacher really bad, so I started as an education major. I took that exam and thought it was much to easy...... so I talked to my dad about it. You see, my father is a principal so we discuss education/teaching quite a bit. He and I have finally come to an agreement that you don't have to be the smartest person to be a very good teacher. Basically, you just need to know your subject matter very well and be able to communicate it in many different ways.

Honestly, what is your opinion of the PPST? Hard or easy? Does it give a true assessment of one's ability? Shouldn't the ACT or SAT have covered this?


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

The PPST isn't the answer for finding true talent for our education system. ND if I remember has one of the lowest scores needed to pass the skills test.  I do think they need to raise the level of the test. I had a colleague tell me the test is written at ninth grade level, so it shouldn't be that hard to pass. Overall it's a start...

A teacher that can connect with parents, children and the community in an appropriate manner is a true teacher, IMO.

I do think that Higher Ed. should be held responsible for those enrolled in education programs. I think UND early childhood/elem. students must have 3.5/4.0 G.P.A. in order to be accepted in the program. Not to sure that making the grade will make you a successful teacher. A student or teacher could be book smart, but if they don't have a clue of how to connect with children, parents or the community - good luck!

Now for our current Governor&#8230; It's not all his fault, the Dept. of Health and Human Services keeps cutting federal funds for early childhood programs and most of all our youngest children and parent(s) are not getting the services they need. I just get so upset about hearing all of the hype about the increase in K-12 salaries and nothing about pre-birth to age five. It just doesn't register with most of our current politicians. NDAEYC has an advocacy partnership and that has helped connect with a few of our current legislators and education professionals.

So with all this said, I do feel there are qualified teachers in ND. I would also like to add as a former supervisor for student teachers that there are people in the field that shouldn't be.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I have a question why if the pre birth to age three thing is so important are our test scores dropping as compared to other countries when they don't have any programs like that. And why did we do better in the past? I'll take a wag at the second question. Mothers stayed home because two incomes weren't needed like they are today. And then you have to ask why are two incomes are needed today and not in the past, the answer is the second income is for the tax burden we now are under. IF we revamp our taxation method (Fairtax.org) mothers could then stay home and do what they did in generations gone by, namely deal with the development of their very young children so they are properly prepared to learn in school.
We have allowed the nanny federal government to become so burdensome that its destroying our society.


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