# Shooting the Roost - Again



## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Shooting the roost appears to be a recurring problem. One that I think is worth solving, rather than just complaining about.

What if we were to push for a law that partially solves the problem, at least for half the day, one that reads something like:

"Waterfowl shall not be taken over water (or maybe within 100 yards of water) after 1:00 PM each day of the hunting season"

I believe this would accomplish several things:

1. Prevent road hunters/slob hunters from molesting waterfowl and give the birds a chance to relax.

2. Will keep the birds in the area, constant pressure pushes them out.

3. This will result in improved hunting.

4. Hunters will be able to field hunt in the afternoons and the birds will be able to go back to the roost in the evening without being disturbed.

Minnesota had this for it's September Goose season at one time (except it was for the entire day), and I thought it was great.

Just one idea, that in my opinion, would improve waterfowl hunting.


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## the Bender (Mar 31, 2005)

I like the Idea personally, because that wouldn't cramp my style one bit. I think you would find a good amount of oposition to a rule as such, because there are many who would be up the crick without a paddle if they weren't allowed to pursue birds using slob methods. That is a tough one. Sucks to watch, and is dissapointing even to hear about.

Here's an Idea... When campers are allowed into the Boundary Waters Canoe Area in MN, they are required to watch an instructional video. The video is educational and it is intended to teach and inform campers wherever they might be from to respect the BWCA and to "Leave no Trace" of ever being there. So it can be enjoyed in the future.

In Nodak you would need to have the infastructure to screen a video aimed at educating Hunters.(especially ones who may not be familiar with Nodak) Like the BWCA it would be mandatory that viewing such a video is part of acquiring a hunting license. The same video could be part of Hunters Safety curiculam for Nodakers.

Would that help??? Seems to me that might be worth looking at???


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

No, not all water is a roost


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

> No, not all water is a roost


Every law ever written has had it's naysayers. This one would be no different. In my opinion, not being able to hunt "non roost water" in the afternoons is a very small cost when you consider the overall benefit.


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## wtrfowlhunter (Nov 22, 2005)

WHat happens if people dont have time to hunt in the morning. i mean im not disagreeing with u its just that some peopel might be against that.


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## honkertalker (Dec 7, 2004)

well I can't say I agree or disagree with this idea but something does need to be done about people blasting the roosts. Dakota Kid.


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## sportsman18 (Jan 18, 2005)

What is the definition of a roost. A place for birds to rest but how many birds? You have you little potholes and sloughs that dont hold much and you also have the people that like to hunt divers?


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## roostbuster (Oct 19, 2005)

do you have a trailer full of decoys that everyone can borrow? how about a couple field blinds do go along with that?

this is a pipedream, it will never happen for so many reasons i'm not going to bother trying to type them all. field hunting is a very specialized form of hunting waterfowl, and an expensive one, i'de be willing to bet 90% of waterfowlers are better suited (or only suited) for hunting water. they pay for their license just like you, maybe they only hunt one day and want it to be a slaughter, who are you to say they're wrong...

by the way, stop preaching to the choir, there's no better way to get a pat on the back on this website than to either A.) preach about not shooting roosts... or B.) complain a non-res.. which usually go hand in hand, but still.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Roostbuster,

I am less than thrilled to see that you are a major part of the problem and offer absolutely no solutions. However, I think that is quite typical of people who are "part of the problem" vs. those who would like to "solve" the problem.

Personally, I think - given the current over-population of roost shooters (both res and nonres) - that a total ban on waterfowl hunting after 1:00 pm will solve most of our problems with high hunting pressure on waterfowl. It has the advantage of penalizing (perhaps a bad choice of words) both field hunters, roost busters and water hunters. The unfortunate aspect is that it deprives high school kids the opportunity to hunt after school. However, if it provides the waterfowl some respite from the intense hunting pressure and keeps them in the state longer, I feel it would be worth it.

Those opposing, in addition to *****ing about it - offer some alternative ideas.

Jim


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## jb (Feb 8, 2005)

this may be a dumb question but do you guys have refuge areas? if not try to get your conservation dep. make some areas refuge no hunting at all a place for the birds to do as they please all day long. In Mo the birds learn where these areas are quick and have no fear they will stay for a long time. Heck if you go to Squaw Creek you can walk up to a snow goose whithin 5 feet before it gets bothered they just know you cant touch them but they still need to go out to feed  anyway thats my .02


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

i have a solution... for starters lead by example also educate hunters on the downside of roost busting. Roost busting does chase the birds away from smaller ponds and slews but it takes cold weather and ice to chase them a way from ND. Probably the best way to stop roost busting would be to get the landowner to post his land if he has a roost on it, but that does nothing for the early season birds which are hunted to lessen damage done in the croplands.

EXAMPLE and EDUCATION are your solutions


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## mach (Aug 29, 2005)

The Saskatchewan hunting regs prohibit the shooting of dark geese after 12 pm noon..but after Oct 15 ..it switches to all day hunting......However this reg does not apply to ducks. There are many bigger ponds protected as refuges and many DU projects are refuges...many potholes were created this year's great fall rainfall created many new roosts and birds were trading from roost to roost. and many landowners posted the roosts and let the guides shoot the fields next to the roost.

Just what I observed..... :roll:


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## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

something im painfully being forced to get used to is roost shooters guides and slob hunters. three things that wont being going away anytime soon im afraid. last week a buddy and i set up on a bean field near town where the birds roost on a lake that stays open next to a water treatment plant. we showed up with an hour of dark to set up, we were about half way done when we saw another truck drive onto the field and park where we usually hide the trucks. we drove over to them when we were done and asked if they would like to sit in our decoys with us, because they had made no effort to move from their truck to set up. they said no, they were going to sit on the corner and pass shoot. we thought, "ok, good luck, dont think you'll get anything but whatever, thats less people to hide". what we didnt know is that by on the corner they meant they were planning on sitting on the edge of the field about 125 yards upwind of our pocket, meaning they were directly under the flight path that birds making their way to us would be on. in other words, ruining our hunt before it even started. worst part is, it was no accident, this is the third time the same two guys have done this (first time this year, we didnt think about it untill after we saw where they were headed that we had seen them before, its not uncommon for people to pass shoot this field) . they know what they are doing and trying to get them to stop would probably not do any good. to make it better we went on a wedensday morning with the intention of avoiding these exact two people. i know that story has nothing to do with the topic, but there are alot of people out there that simply dont care. roost busting, not a big deal to most non-hardcore waterfowlers, ruining someones hunt, so what? we wont be out again this year, whats it matter if we scare the birds out? there are a great deal of excelent waterfowlers out there with great ethics and respect for other hunters, however there are just as many, probably more that are very selfish about the whole thing. thinking that shooting a roost is a better idea than hunting on a field where results are doubtful. its really not hard to understand why they do it, ignorance and/or apothy. all it takes to bust a roost is one person or group that doesnt care if the birds are still there tomorrow or not. but i think im ranting off topic again so ill stop. but as stated before, getting laws passed would be hard, your best bet is to teach people that you hunt with the rights and wrongs. and maybe not everyone agrees that roost shooting is wrong, it is an opinion thing, but i dare anyone to loudly announce themselves as a proud roost shooter in the parking lot of a delta meeting and see how well you do


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## ndwaterfowler (May 22, 2005)

Our next Delta meeting is at 8pm at the VFW in East Grand Forks on 11/30, everyone is invited. :wink:


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## just ducky (Apr 27, 2005)

As someone else said already, this idea is so full of holes that it would never become law, not the least of which is the definition of "roost"...are you going to put signs at all roosts indicating it's off limits? Not trying to promote the idea of hunting roosts here, but just trying to be practical. You've gotta somehow clearly define it, or it's not going to work. And what about those of us who prefer to hunt water, or just don't have the gear for field hunting? And someone already talked about divers...some of us prefer hunting divers. The idea of cutting off hunting at noon has some merit, but it wouldn't stop guys from roost hunting in the am.


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## ADN (Sep 27, 2005)

I would be more inclined to support extended watefowl rest areas (refuges) and the like than closing down all water hunting half way through the day.

Divers don't use fields. As much as I like to field hunt I also enjoy hunting over water. Unless absolutely necessary, shutting down water hunting at a particular time doesn't make sense.

Designate more shallow slough and wetland complexes as waterfowl rest areas.


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## fox412 (Mar 18, 2005)

I don't mind a pass shooter. I still do it occasionally in the late season. Yeah I like it better when they come in the decoys but I find nothing wrong with pass shooting as long as one is far enough from the water that they don't get the whole bunch up and bother the roost and that they don't take unethical shots that end up crippling birds. I know and you probably are one or know one who will set decoys 125-300 yrds away from the water in the flight path and try to lower them to pass shoot. To me thats know different than someone who pass shoots from the ditch.

I do think that all out roost busting is wrong. Getting out in the water or sneaking to the waters edge for the soul purpose of three shots and a bunch of downed and crippled birds to me is not right and it does run birds out of the area.


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## mach (Aug 29, 2005)

Are the guys that have permission to hunt a field that runs up to the roost and set up in the usual hardcore fashion any better than a roost buster?..even say next to the roost or a quarter mile away?
I saw this happening many times this year in Saskatchewan. locals and non-res alike.
If a bird flies in the morning to feed from a roost/pond...feeds then flies over to another pond for a mid day rest drink ..goes out to feed, then flies over to another roost /pond in the evening....Are these places all roosts.....and if you set up in their flight path/line which may only be 1 to 2 miles apart...are you really running traffic..field shooting...or some form of pass shooting? The heavy fall rains in Saskatchewan created many big ponds between protected Refuges and DU sites. Many birds were comming in to new sites all the time...this was very common in certain parts of the province..birds were very mobile..especially snow geese....The most sucessfull hunters set up blinds/dekes between or near roosts.

Many years ago, most birds stayed at a refuge or big lake and would fly about 3 to 4 miles to go accross the highway / railroad tracks to feed..that was before the farmers created more grain fields near the refuge and lakes...a typical scenario now.

I was lucky to get permission to set up in a field between three roost/ponds..closest Refuge was 2 miles..another roost 3 miles and a big roost 4 miles.. There were other hunters in next fields, small pond, road allowances etc. ...but didn't seem to bother the birds I had on the "x"
:sniper: got some snows, canadas, cranes, ducks, sharptail from one variety setup

That is what I observed this year.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Some spots are better spots than others depending on who gets there first or has permission to hunt. Sounds to me like it is called hunting pressure and not roost busting.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

This post has gotten way off course. It makes it sound like nobody can set up on the water or if they do, they better make sure it is a pond that isn't holding ducks or we will be classified as a roostbuster by the field hunters.

Many of us go in early in the morning and set up down from where the birds are roosting, but we may end up on the same water. There are also hunters that wait for the birds to leave in the morning and then go down and hunt.

Everyone can share a story about how someone screwed up a hunt, let's not lay claim to pond hunters as roosterbusters.


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## Doghollow (Nov 11, 2005)

There's a long row to hoe...check out November, '05 Field & Stream, page 46, I believe for the little thumbnail "trick to finding birds." Something like get up early, find the water they're on, set up decoys and wait for them to return (duh, to the roost!).


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## Texas slayer (Dec 2, 2005)

Yah I agree with not hunting the roosts. I live in texas and we have mostly peanut fields. All i hunt is water but i hunt it in the morning. The ducks head to the field in the morning and then come back to water. Roost hunting just doesnt give time to let the ducks rest.


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

You can still hunt all the water you want from dawn to 1:00 PM. That is when 95% of the decoy hunters hunt. The law would stop road hunters from scaring birds out of an area. Gadwall and teal would stick around longer if they were not kicked off of the small ponds within eyesight of the nearest gravel road all afternoon. Water is water, and any water is a potential rest spot for waterfowl in the afternoons.

Minnesota closes the season totally after 4 PM for the same reason, to give birds a rest. At least under this idea, you can give the birds a rest and still water hunt them in the morning and field/pass shoot them in the evening.

It sounds like many of you may not support this idea. If that is the case, it has no chance. We will just continue to over pressure the birds, not find ways to manage the increasing pressure, and have a "Tragedy of the Commons".


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## ADN (Sep 27, 2005)

Just because your idea doesn't recieve support doesn't mean other methods aren't capable of reducing or slowing the increase in pressure. There is, as they say, more than one way to skin a cat.

It sounds that several people support expanded refuge areas. Most people seem to share the opinion that closing all water hunting after a given time period is the wrong approach. Teal will leave early regardless of pressure.

Another idea would be to restrict weekend hunting times as this is when the majority of people, both ethical and slobs, are in the field. As the majority of pressure occurs at this time by restricting the time allowed the peak pressure times would also be decreased.

Minnesota only restricts the begining of the season as this is when the highest pressure and highest harvest occurs.


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

hydro870: How about changing your title to "Too Much Pressure?"

I am not opposed to a 1pm cutoff time for duck hunting. My only point was that the real issue about our ducks leaving is the pressure on them and not so much about guys setting up on ponds to hunt ducks.

Do the road hunters do justice for us. Heck no. I used to have a neighbor who would come home with his son and a limit of ducks they had shot "off the road". Extremely dissapointing. He always made fun of the fact that I still put a pair of waders on. It was like he was bragging about how good of hunter he was because he didn't have to put them on. Just sit on the tailgate while his son drove between two sloughs. What a disgrace to sportsmen. Needless to say, we weren't friends and there wasn't alot of respect for him.

Are there roostbusters? Yeah, but those are the hunters that get out of their pickup and walk down to the slough shoot them off the pond and walk back to the truck. Guess that is my definition. Those kinds of people have ruined hunts for me too (I was sitting on the other side of the pond with my decoys waiting for the ducks to go feed so I coudl set them up).

I do agree. Pressure IS an issue. According to USFWS, there were 7,304,151 waterfowl in the central flyway in 2005. many of our ponds were open clear into mid November and we had plenty of food here for them. Many split because of the pressure. no arguement there.

I think both pond hunters and field hunters have their place. Let's just not label us die hard pond hunters roostbusters. And let's talk about the real problems like road hunting and pressure.


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## just ducky (Apr 27, 2005)

There are other ways to skin this cat than to put all water hunting off-limits. As was mentioned, an early afternoon closing time is one. Some state managed areas in my area of the country limit hunting to odd or even dates only, or just certain days of the week, which gives the birds somewhat of a break, but the problem is it also condenses hunters into fewer available days. So what would you like less....more hunters hunting the areas at the same time, or a rest for the birds? My best thought to solve this problem is to designate some areas as "refuges" or resting areas. Yeah, some hunters would be PO'd because maybe their favorite slough or field is now a refuge, but this would definitely give the birds somewhere to rest. Heck in my state, most all of the state managed waterfowl areas have a designated refuge somewhere within them. Pretty funny to see a thousand birds flying over a field or pothole, right next to an area where hunters are packed in like sardines, and the birds never come near the hunters.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

If you want to stop people from blasting ducks off water close to sunset then you have to put a time closure on the season...ie 1 pm or 4pm. I would agree if you did a later time (4pm) you would have less opposition to the change. You would give kids a chance (yet a slim one) to hunt after school. But like others have mentioned, you have to define a roost. You can blast ducks out of an area if you shoot them in the morning on a pond 5 days in a row. Pressure is pressure no matter if it is water or a feild. The 4 pm closure in MN is to help keep local birds around. This also switches to sunset two weeks after the season, Local birds are gone by this time and weather has pushed out the teal and woodies. I agree something needs to be done, but the main thing is educate people on why it is a negative to roost shoot.


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## ducguslayer (Sep 12, 2005)

diver sniper- If i was you i would call the warden and have these ******** ticketed for hunter harassment... I think you have a pretty solid argument


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

Great argument yes, but.....proof?? Hate to say it guys but, we all need to be callin **** in as we see it, unless the wardens see it themselves, they aint' gonna do nothing about it.


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## striped1 (Aug 17, 2005)

so let me get this straight, the proposal is to outlaw hunting *WATER*fowl over *WATER*????

Ok, I am confused.

There are refuges and waterfowl resting areas that are off limits. That is enough. Hunting waterfowl over water is not the reason we are seeing fewer and fewer birds every year.


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## WTFNMJKHAHA (Nov 30, 2005)

you are correct striper....but on the other hand....birds are moving through faster because some hunters don't find a honeyhole transition slough...they find roosts. I hate to say it but hunting a roost is simply lack of enthusiasm, just a little more scouting or a slightly different area is all that a guy needs to shoot birds...rather than slipping into their beds, hide in the hallway on the way to the dinner table. Get'em on the way to and from the fields.

Be smart guys, no one likes a roost shooter; especially the duckies.


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## zwohl (Nov 9, 2005)

The 4 pm closing time was a good thing up here. It did keep the local birds around, however the teal and woodies were not gone yet. We hunted near a refuge all year fields and ponds and made our priority to shoot the singles and doubles and get out before the large flocks got up off the refuge, after 4 pm. Even when the season was extended til sunset, we kept that same mindset and shot birds late into the season. I dont agree with shooting the roost, but there are simpler ways to shoot birds without making it a law.


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## striped1 (Aug 17, 2005)

WTFNMJKHAHA said:


> you are correct striper....but on the other hand....birds are moving through faster because some hunters don't find a honeyhole transition slough...they find roosts. I hate to say it but hunting a roost is simply lack of enthusiasm, just a little more scouting or a slightly different area is all that a guy needs to shoot birds...rather than slipping into their beds, hide in the hallway on the way to the dinner table. Get'em on the way to and from the fields.
> 
> Be smart guys, no one likes a roost shooter; especially the duckies.


I don't disagree with you. However, the only way to legislate it is to outlaw all water. That is why there are refuges and rest areas, areas that cannot be shot.

I don't think the birds are moving through faster, there are just a lot fewer birds and they aren't migrating as far. I have talked to guys in canada and Nebraska and Kansas and I have hunted ND, MN, ME and NH, the numbers of birds are way down and if they can stay on open water like in the city or rivers, etc, they aren't going as far south. Ask the guys in AR. They aren't seeing the numbers either. It isn't a roost problem. It is a habitat / production problem.


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## Texas slayer (Dec 2, 2005)

Then what the hell are we going to do about it?


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## Waterspaniel (Oct 10, 2005)

All you field busters are ruining our good roost hunting! Lets make a law that says you cant hunt fields near water so the water hunting doesnt suffer


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

:eyeroll:


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## Miller (Mar 2, 2002)

If you spend all night scouting, then get up early to setup the next morning and right before shooting time someone drops a boat in the roost; more often then not the field is shot and so is the hunting. If you really could care less if your actions are affecting others then you can see why animosity towards outsiders occurs. Through knowledge some learn how to respect others, then there's those who prefer to insult the same people they're affecting at the same time. Classy.


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## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

Are we done yet?
- Forum Moderator


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

hehe, thanks GP...I was noticing the thread get a little touchy. But I thought I'd to the debate.

Personally I like seeing the ideas of how to find that happy medium. Let's face it, at the end of the day everybody likes to hunt a certain way...more power to them. I don't ever see a "boat ban" happening so boat hunters will always be here. I've seen it come up in certain ways around legislative time but they don't make it to the floor.

I personally am usually all for allowing more time for birds to rest, but I don't know if I'm a big fan of an afternoon close on duck hunting. When it gets later in the year, your best chances at decoying ducks (especially in the fields) is in the afternoon IMO. All too often we'll scout a big feed and the next morning we scratch our heads when only a trickle or manybe none return....but they show up for the afternoon more often then not if they're only feeding once a day.

The amount of refuges in the northern provinces and in the upper Midwest has a lot to do with birds staging for longer periods of time IMO.

So with all that being said, we run into much fewer problems now when we scout as we usually try to find where birds are roosting and determine if it will be hunted in the morning. And it also helps to have a field where birds are coming from multiple roosts so we have a better chance of birds returning, even if one of them is hunted. Requires more gas, but covering the bases can save heartache.

My :2cents:


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

GP: I agree, but as long as the field hunters on this site always classify the pond hunters as roostbusters, you are going to have this arguement.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Chris,
What time in the season does this afternoon feeding only occur? It may be possible to have 1/2 day waterfowl hunting during October and then open it to full days in November or the last week in Oct.


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## fox412 (Mar 18, 2005)

Jhegg,
We were out Saturday and the geese and the ducks were feeding once a day. The ducks came out at about 3pm and the geese about 4. The last two weeks the earliest they came off was 1pm and the latest was about 4pm. That how it was where we were I don't know how they were where Chris was.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Ya, usually becomes once a day in November. But I wonder how good a date does if you have different fall weather patterns?


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Here's one for you on the other end of the stick. We scouted a nice feed of mallards early on in the season, they had been there for quite some time with some pressure in the pea field they were using. We arrived an hour before sunset to what we thought would be an easy find, these ducks did not fly until well after dusk. Seemed odd but we thought our chances the next morning would be nothing less than spectacular.

They come to feed by the hundreds, right on top of us some less than 3 feet from the blinds feeding as we WATCHED. There was literally thousands of ducks on top of us, 20 minutes before and up to legal shooting time!!

Noone busted the roost, so they had a safe haven during the day. The pressure at the feed field forced them to feed pre-dawn and post-dusk. SAFE!!

If we didn't see the birds by chance, you would'nt know they were there. I firmly believe that birds will adapt to pressure if they are allowed or more often than not they will leave the area.

Half days would do nothing but limit oppurtunties for all, a bird watcher I am not!

Make your own moral of the story if you want, but pressure is the key.
The geese in our area feed once a day, right at the end of the afternoon. Except for Weds. and Sat. they are safe.


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## malspeck (Nov 21, 2005)

I am new to the forum and will be moving to Minot in Jan. I've been reading the posts here and I have fair understanding of the roost. I am just wondering is there two different kinds of hunters - open water and field hunters. If I'm correct I am reading these posts that way. Before I say anything I want to be there for awhile and have a clear understanding of the roost. I do hunt open water and field and I like morning and evening hunts. I totally disagree with driving around and shooting that's very unethical. I do agree with the "safe zones" for birds. Every place I've lived have "safe zones". Be easy on me, like I said I'm new to NoDak and want to learn everything I can to be prepared for next year.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

You pretty much nailed it with the Field and Open Water hunters. As you can see, the 2 can "clash" in certain situations and is why these topics stay pretty active.

Welcome to Minot, you'll love the waterfowl hunting!


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

4CurlRedleg said:


> Noone busted the roost, so they had a safe haven during the day. The pressure at the feed field forced them to feed pre-dawn and post-dusk. SAFE!!


Yessir, waterfowl sure know how to adapt!


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## Goosepride (Sep 29, 2003)

I've been seeing more of that too lately.


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