# Coyote hurting deer poulation?



## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

During the bow and rifle season this year I was bringing up to my hunting buddy the fact that we never saw many young deer with their mommas. Though we saw plenty of deer in our area we were concerned about this fact . And we could not remember a year when we heard and seen so many yotes, they were always around. Well season is over and talking to landowners/farmers we were learning that these landowners were finding coyote dens in good numbers, or bad. Around these dens they were finding numerous skulls and bones of fawns. One den had 18 skulls near it. That seems like a large number to me. Landowners and hunters here in the northeast have been saying that coyotes are here in numbers not seen in a long time. And deer hunters are reporting to the game and fish officials that the deer are not there in the numbers that they think. I am thinking that the large increase in the yote population, the lack of young deer out there, are closely related. I know they say yotes rarely kill an adult deer, and I can see that, but I think they are taking them as fawns, and it would not take too many hard winters, along with the damage being done by coyotes to the young deer, to get us back to numbers seen 25 years ago. I am not any kind of expert here, but I am curious as to what other people here think and what they have found or heard.


----------



## kill em (Feb 1, 2009)

What state is this in?


----------



## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

In my area they will take an adult Deer. I have seen it happen.

All Coyotes must die!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

If you are talking about ND......I think the absence of fawns is because of the tough winter here last year.A lot of the does aborted their fawns.This complaint is pretty much state wide.


----------



## dogdonthunt (Nov 10, 2005)

I hafta agree with the coyotes.... when I was out bow hunting I dont think Ive ever heard so many howling... and talking to ppl in the area it was the same thing... that along with where I hunt the timber wolves moving into the area.... and this in in ND too btw... but Ive talked to people from minot to GF and they all had the same problem... to many coyotes.... heres a question.... is there any landowners or even outfitters who want these coyotes taken off their property? Im not talking about paying to hunt but these dogs hafta be hurting your bottom dollars too by takeing birds and deer.... and with the cattle farmers out there with their young cattle..... I know a few guys who wouldnt mind getting in a lil target practice...


----------



## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

If anything its a good thing. Get rid of the weak deer and let the strong survive. Also, less deer means safer driving.


----------



## Doogie (Feb 23, 2007)

dogonthehunt, your best bet would be to start knocking on doors, just like anything else. The cattle farmers as you call them, usually dont have any problems with yotes till the new calves start dropping, then the yotes are in there looking for a free and easy meal. And by then the yotes are rubbed


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

One thing you have to remember is that all these coyotes are pushing out the red fox.Hardly ever see a fox anymore.Taking out the fox removes the largest predator of nesting hens of all species.Red fox not only get the eggs but the hen to.That's thousands and thousands of nesting hens producing thousands and thousands of chicks and ducklings.There are always trade offs.


----------



## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

The coyotes come into the calving pastures for the afterbirth. Any cow worth anything will run them off. They'll take a dead calf right away though.

That rumor about 18 fawn skulls at the den has been floating around for many years. Young fawns have a soft bones and coyotes eat the whole works, hooves too. Coyotes have a clean den unlike fox. I doubt they take too many unless the doe was killed or the fawn crippled. Several times I've seen does put the run on a coyote no problem. Like Ken said, there were many abortions last winter.

You'll see more coyotes for awhile. The CRP is going out and that concentrates animals in existing cover. Deer numbers (all game) are going to fall with the habitat loss.

In the next session of the legislature there will probably be a bill for a bounty. Bad idea.


----------



## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

Dick Monson said:


> The coyotes come into the calving pastures for the afterbirth. Any cow worth anything will run them off. They'll take a dead calf right away though.
> 
> That rumor about 18 fawn skulls at the den has been floating around for many years. Young fawns have a soft bones and coyotes eat the whole works, hooves too. Coyotes have a clean den unlike fox. I doubt they take too many unless the doe was killed or the fawn crippled. Several times I've seen does put the run on a coyote no problem. Like Ken said, there were many abortions last winter.
> 
> ...


 good accurate post Dick :thumb:


----------



## Chinwhiskers (Jan 13, 2008)

I doubt the G&F are to worried about coyotes killing deer. I think we are forgeting about the thousands of extra doe tags that the G&F can't even get rid of or the hundreds that ended up dead in farmers yards this last winter. Nature is basically taking its course. With the years of over population of both pheasants and deer, the coyote population was bound to take off at some point. Nothing to get worried about. It goes in cycles.


----------



## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Lots of good info here but never doubt fawn mortality is significantly affected by coyotes.Of course some Game Depts deny this-ie,Mn DNR,but the research studies show predation up to 90% in some areas.Even the half sized Oklahoma/Texas variety of yotes make a difference.
http://digital.library.okstate.edu/oas/ ... p23_27.pdf


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

KEN W said:


> If you are talking about ND......I think the absence of fawns is because of the tough winter here last year.A lot of the does aborted their fawns.This complaint is pretty much state wide.


Yup!

Trail cameras late last spring were showing very few pregnant does. Hardly saw a fawn all summer on the cameras. Saw very few during the fall.

Coyote can and are tough on fawns. But coyotes have been pretty widespread in ND for some number of years now. Because of this, its doubtful any sudden drop in fawn numbers is completely due to coyote predation.

With the amount of snow this year (and until this last weeks thaw, the horrible deep powdery snow conditions) id expect to see much of the same this next year.


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

KEN W said:


> One thing you have to remember is that all these coyotes are pushing out the red fox.Hardly ever see a fox anymore.Taking out the fox removes the largest predator of nesting hens of all species.Red fox not only get the eggs but the hen to.That's thousands and thousands of nesting hens producing thousands and thousands of chicks and ducklings.There are always trade offs.


Id rather have the fox.


----------



## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

barebackjack said:


> KEN W said:
> 
> 
> > One thing you have to remember is that all these coyotes are pushing out the red fox.Hardly ever see a fox anymore.Taking out the fox removes the largest predator of nesting hens of all species.Red fox not only get the eggs but the hen to.That's thousands and thousands of nesting hens producing thousands and thousands of chicks and ducklings.There are always trade offs.
> ...


me to :beer: :beer: :thumb:


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

bearhunter said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > KEN W said:
> ...


Must not be a bird hunter.No fox can have a dramatic affect on successful hatches.


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> hundreds that ended up dead in farmers yards this last wint


Come on, where are there hundreds of dead deer showing up?????


----------



## 870 XPRS (Mar 12, 2003)

djleye said:


> > hundreds that ended up dead in farmers yards this last wint
> 
> 
> Come on, where are there hundreds of dead deer showing up?????


Didn't you read what he wrote......"in farmers yards" :thumb:


----------



## dosch (May 20, 2003)

I'd rather have the fox too...


----------



## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

weather and cars are much harder on dear populations. when you have a wet, snowy spring, most fawns will die. especially when habitat conditions are poor after drought years. coyotes will happily drag the dead fawns back to feed their young. they are just being good parents. do they kill healthy fawns? absolutely. but it i not as common as many believe. i have called in yotes only to have a vicious doe antelope or deer attack them with much aggression. it is very apparent that they do a good job of defending their fawns, they to can be good parents too, it would seem. 
coyote vs fox? i am a bird hunter. bring on the coyotes. delta waterfowl and others have proven that coyotes actually boost bird populations by eliminating nest predators. not a bad thing when stomach samples of 8339 coyotes showed that their diet consists of less than 2% bird matter. i still have a copy of that survey.
deer? i hate dodging them on the road every night, but acknowledge that others still love to hunt them. if you want to talk about deer killers, we have mountain lions. the average lion kills a deer every 3 days. this is in Wyoming. yet we still have plenty of deer. another thing about the coyotes; in recent years there has been a tremendous aerial gunning effort that has nearly wiped out coyotes in major portions of the state. result in terms of predation? we are now teeming with golden eagles. they kill more fawns than coyote and you can't shoot them! they are also hell on sheep and game birds. be careful what you wish for. nature does not tolerate a vacuum.


----------



## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Undoubtedly coyotes are making an impact but we are also seeing a natural downturn. Deer populations have been artificially high for many years now. Great habitat, mild winters and low predation had allowed populations to explode. Now habitat is changing, the last couple winters have been tough and coyote populations have exploded with the availability of food (deer). My dad remembers in the 50's when even a deer track was a rare sighting in ND. What many under 30 may not realize is that whitetail deer were never predominant in ND even when it was all natural prarie. The numbers I saw this year could be compared to what I saw in the mid 70s when I started hunting. Even at that time the population was considered to be very strong.


----------



## fesnthunner (Mar 16, 2009)

I agree, lots of good insight here, you sure can tell who the wingshooters are  But after talking to some cattle ranchers, and by coincidence the article in the paper, (the gf herald) how timely was that, I think some people are underestimating the effect coyotes are having. Yes coyotes have been widespread in ND for years, but not in these numbers in the east. And coyotes don't just take afterbirth of cattle, they are taking calves in increasing numbers, and it only makes sense they do the same to fawns. My new friend, a cattle rancher near Meckinok ND, says that only the past two years has he ever been concerned about coyotes getting to his calves, they are becoming a real nuisance. So I think I am going to be one of the newest predator hunters in ND.  Look out Yotes


----------

