# Dog trainers beware



## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

I want to warn all of you who are in favour of SB 2254 the high fence hunting bill, if passes you will no longer be able to use pigeons,chuckar,pheasants, ducks etc. for training. The bill bans the shooting of non traditional livestock all of those birds fall under that.[/b]


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

This post is a prime example of the time-honored strategy of commercial (g/o's) interests:

Divide and Conquer.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

tb said:


> This post is a prime example of the time-honored strategy of commercial (g/o's) interests:
> 
> Divide and Conquer.


Tell me tb if you have ever trained a dog. Have you ever spun a chckar or pigeon and planted him? Have you ever pulled feathers so a bird could not fly? Ever shackled the wings of a duck so all he could do was swim? I've done all of this under this bill this will no longer be legal.. Think about it boys I'm just warning you.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

g/o said:


> I want to warn all of you who are in favour of SB 2254 the high fence hunting bill, if passes you will no longer be able to use pigeons,chuckar,pheasants, ducks etc. for training. The bill bans the shooting of non traditional livestock all of those birds fall under that.[/b]


Fear Mongering!!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Horsager said:


> g/o said:
> 
> 
> > I want to warn all of you who are in favour of SB 2254 the high fence hunting bill, if passes you will no longer be able to use pigeons,chuckar,pheasants, ducks etc. for training. The bill bans the shooting of non traditional livestock all of those birds fall under that.[/b]
> ...


Read it and weep


> Nontraditional livestock" means any wildlife held in a cage, fence, enclosure, or
> other manmade means of confinement that limits its movement within definite
> boundaries or an animal that is physically altered to limit movement and facilitate
> capture.
> ...


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

g/o---What are you talking about? Re-read the bill, it clearly refers to the shooting of non traditional livestock *ON* those facilities...not OFF their premises. Also states charges fees would be illegal.

Sounds like a good bill to me!

http://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/60-200 ... DP0400.pdf


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> or an animal that is physically altered to limit movement and facilitate
> capture.
> 
> Griffman, If you spun a bird, pulled wing feathers, taped the wings so it could not what would you call that?


 Also states charges fees would be illegal.



> I'm sure you guys would love that being you always want everything for nothing :wink:


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

YOu guys need to do some research and quit just taking the word of people that only tell you what they want you to know.

IN ND in order to raise any game animal in fenced conditions to include birds as well as deer & elk, yhou need a license.

here is ND CC pertaining to licenses:


> 36-01-08.1. Nontraditional livestock license - Fee. The board of animal health may require a license for nontraditional livestock maintained within this state. *The annual fee for a license for a bird species required to be licensed is seven dollars. The maximum amount of annual fees for bird species licenses to be paid by a person holding more than one bird species license is forty dollars.* The annual fee for a license for any other species required to be licensed is fifteen dollars. The maximum amount of annual fees for nonbird species licenses to be paid by a person holding more than one nonbird species license is one hundred dollars.


The people you trusted to inform you about this bill have pulled the wool over your eyes. Talk about divide & conquer.

Everything you were told about disease and ethics pertain to bird preserves only they knew a lot of you don't have problems with bird preserves so they didn't bother passing it on and hoping the legislature comittees would change the wording without you knowing.
:eyeroll:


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

g/o--Seriously....RE-READ THE BILL!

Yes, I've used birds for training. The proposed bill still allows for that to happen....just not on the facility it was raised on....I don't have a problem with that.

The "escape" part of the bill refers only to elk, non traditional livestock are not mentioned in that portion.

The bill looks good to me, maybe not to you, but it works "as is" for me and any other "normal" dog trainer.

g/o - you need to re -read the bill so you can understand it's content and purpose, it has nothing to do with dis allowing birds for training.


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## JustAnotherDog (Oct 16, 2005)

> SB 2254
> 
> Nontraditional livestock and farmed elk facilities - Fee shooting prohibited -
> Penalty. After the effective date of this Act, the shooting of nontraditional livestock or farmed elk for a fee or other remuneration on a licensed nontraditional livestock or farmed elk facility is prohibited. A person who willfully violates this section is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.


Griffman said:


> The proposed bill *still allows for that to happen....just not on the facility it was raised on*....I don't have a problem with that.


By your reasoning, one deer/elk ranch can just exchange their deer/elk ranch and and continue charging to shoot them?


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Yes, I've used birds for training. The proposed bill still allows for that to happen....just not on the facility it was raised on....I don't have a problem with that


So from what you are saying here that if I raise it and you take it elsewhere to shoot thats fine. So in your words it would be ok for one deer farmer to sell one to another and then it would be legal since it wasn't raised there? By the way deer are nontraditional livestock


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

JustAnotherDog said:


> > SB 2254
> >
> > Nontraditional livestock and farmed elk facilities - Fee shooting prohibited -
> > Penalty. After the effective date of this Act, *the shooting of nontraditional livestock or farmed elk for a fee or other remuneration on a licensed nontraditional livestock or farmed elk facility is prohibited.* A person who willfully violates this section is guilty of a class B misdemeanor.
> ...


Don't miscontrue this statement, the bill states it is not legal to shoot the farm raised animals on a non traditional or farmed elk facility. As far as birds go....this is fine with me. I can still buy the birds, use them for training OFF the facility....just like before the bill was introduced. I have no interest in shooting a farm raised big game animal either on or off a game facility, therefore, this issue of the bill does not bother me at all. In fact, I don't like canned hunts at all...period. Remember...this thread is about how the bill would affect *bird dog training* not canned hunts/hunters. To me...that is a completely different subject.

By the way...before you or someone else tries to "rip" me for using birds for training and stating I don't like canned hunts....understand those are two different things. The birds used for training are just that...training birds. I am not hunting when I'm training a dog... I don't think that would apply for anyone shooting elk on a game farm....



JustAnotherDog said:


> By your reasoning, one deer/elk ranch can just exchange their deer/elk ranch and and continue charging to shoot them?


I think your answer to the above question is right in the bill, I highlighted and enlarged it. The bill clearly states shooting the animals on *a* (I interpret this as any) facility is prohibited. So, IMO, no, the animals couldn't be exchanged from one facility to another facility.



g/o said:


> > Yes, I've used birds for training. The proposed bill still allows for that to happen....just not on the facility it was raised on....I don't have a problem with that
> 
> 
> So from what you are saying here that if I raise it and you take it elsewhere to shoot thats fine. So in your words it would be ok for one deer farmer to sell one to another and then it would be legal since it wasn't raised there? By the way deer are nontraditional livestock


Like I said before....the thread is about birds and bird dog training. In that aspect, it appears to me this bill would not affect a dog trainer. I am not familiar with the laws involved in shooting farm raised big game. I do know it is legal to buy pen raised birds and use them for training dogs.

Please stick to your original post and explain to me how you think this bill would affect me as a dog trainer. I say it won't affect me in that aspect whatsoever... Your original post stated birds could no longer be used under this bill, the way I read the bill, you are wrong. I could use them just as I do right now. I don't shoot the birds on the game farm, I don't pay a fee to shoot them....the proposed bill does not change those facts.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

griffman,

I agree.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

g/o said:


> I want to warn all of you who are in favour of SB 2254 the high fence hunting bill, if passes you will no longer be able to use pigeons,chuckar,pheasants, ducks etc. for training. The bill bans the shooting of non traditional livestock all of those birds fall under that.[/b]


This is posted in it's original form, no additions or deletions. Just to show g/o's original post before it disappears like many of g/o's post's have in the past.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

my last post is in reference to this and other posts made by g/o. Look on this thread and notice all the deleted posts by g/o.

http://nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtop ... ght=#95493

It seems that sometimes g/o's original posts just disappear?


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

Hey g/o - btw, does that stand for "great one' or what??
The last dog trainer that I know of that got arrested was a .....
Well......
You know......
he was a.......

g(guide)/o(outfitter):

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=17871


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

I am not trying to side track this bill, but am just curious after reading all of the above posts.

Will this eliminate the bird hunting preserves in ND as well?


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Griffman...

Love the link!


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