# Prisons



## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Had an 18-year old in court today, third MIP and he hit and bit (yes, bit) his girlfriend last night. Obviously a troubled, chemically dependant youth. Pled guilty on both counts (MIP, Assault) and is now having probation revoked. He will go to the penitentiary on Felony Theft probation from a few months ago...which leads me to my question:

Is prison a deterrent or is it a "School for Criminals?"

I'd like to think it is a deterrent, what with all those "things" that go on in there that I'd rather not discuss, and the fact you are no longer a free person. If I were an 18-year old petty thief, in his shoes, I'd be scared crapless to go to Bismarck for 2-5 years.

What are some viable alternatives in your mind for prison (besides the Nuge's theory on "kill em all") in today's society? What are its flaws and its benefits?

Just wondering how others see it...thanks.


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## Shu (Oct 21, 2003)

Well, I'm pretty close to Nugent's view that there are too many people so let's just start eliminating the ones that commit major crimes such as rape, murder, etc. They contribute nothing to society but problems. Eliminate the problem.

But.....since the vast majority of prisoners are eventually returned to society I'd rather they somehow learn the value of work. By that I mean hard, manual work. Something they don't want to come back to.

Assist in maintenance of public property for example (cleaning, mowing, painting, etc.). Create a type of highly supervised work force to get them used to a daily job.

Better than having them sit around with other criminals bragging about what they did and teaching others how they pulled off crimes.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I personally don't feel that there should even be televisions there. There are too many unnecessary things that make life a bit too easy for prisoners. There are some horrible things that go on there , no doubt, but why should a prisoner get to watch a television when there are plenty of law abiding citizens that cannot afford to do so. There are other perks that are offered as well, I just focused in on television in this example.

I reall don't know if prison is a deterrant or not. I think that people are either born and raised to be good people or they are not and I really don't think that prison has a lot to do with it. I don't steal because it isn't right, not because I am afraid to go to prison. now, whether it is b=nature or nurture is another story..........Any thoughts on this????


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

These days prison is no deterrent to a criminal, it's part of the risk they knowingly take. I was in jail for a DWI long time ago as I was sitting there I noticed how I didn't fit in with the people in jail with me. Many are there for mental reasons beyond their own comprehension but we have to put the not so smart lazy ones some where I guess.

Although I don't believe in imprisoning people who are addicted to drugs or alcohol or have obvious problems stemming from their addiction. I would rather treat those people for their problem not imprison them for what desperation has caused them to do. Putting them in a standard treatment program would be a better deterrent, or better yet imprison them in a treatment facility and make them cook and clean and work while they are there, and listen to all those sessions on addiction. Get'em clean and force them to stay clean for a year or two they just might come up with a reason to live a normal healthy life.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Wow, tough question. I think we should separate these people by the crimes they commit. Violent felons in one place, drug addictions in another, sexual predators (also violent) in ----- solitary confinement or lock them all in a small room together. Those in for less crimes could have a few perks. Those in for Violent felony deserve none. I would keep them apart for differentiation in punishment, and also so the minor criminal doesn't look up to a more seasoned criminal and come our worse than they went in.

There is no easy answer for this, but I like the Sheriff with the work camps in Arizona. These people are not an expense to society because they must work for their keep or starve. Work is not punishment. prisoners with the right attitude should see this as an opportunity to learn a trade. I respect a person who works no matter what their job, or how much they make. We need to teach that in our home, our schools, and our prisons.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

If prison is not enought of a deterrent for some one, probobally not much you can do with them. However IMHO prison should not be a social atmosphere for criminals to plan thir next crimes.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

I talked with a person who spent time in that camp in Arizona, did 10 days to be exact, for a DUI, she said it is definitely the last place you want to be.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

While I agree that there are far too many in prison whose violations shouldn't be classified as crimes, I also feel that the system is far too lenient on most criminals. Hard work, I feel, would be the best medicine for those who are imprisoned for "serious" crimes. When you hit the sack after an honest day's labor, figuring out how to commit your next robbery, rape or assault will be the last thing on your mind. 
As for NJ's case, what he needs is to be incarcerated somewhere where he has to work his butt so hard that he can do nothing other than fall into his bunk at night. The movie "Cool Hand Luke" comes to mind. Strother Martin's statement, "What we have here, is a failure to communicate.", could well describe the way we need to treat these punks. Communicate with them in a way that it would be impossible for them to misunderstand!
Yep, I spanked my kids when they needed it too! Oddly enough, they love me and their mother, respect authority and the rights of their fellows and are raising thoughtful, intelligent and respectful children of their own. Praying for those who need guidance, Burl


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

> As for NJ's case, what he needs is to be incarcerated somewhere


I had to read that twice to make sure you didn't want me in the slammer Burly!!


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

I tend to write, sometimes, in "stream of thought", and I know it can be difficult to unravel the knots. Then again, maybe you're just feeling a little guilty about becoming a member of the press..........
Seriously Nick, congratulations on the column. Burl


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Yeah, I get the same way. I'm always over-conscious of how I write, it took me a few years of editing my own work to start to catch those "stream of though" scenarios too.

Thanks for the kind words.


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## Danimal (Sep 9, 2005)

Great thread... sorry for my long post to explain my two cents....

I work in Baltimore and heard an intersting fact this week on the radio. In July, in Baltimore, there were a RECORD number of arrests AND there were a record number of cases thrown out. A couple years ago Balt.'s former police commissioner was convicted on various charges (federal public corruption and tax charges from mis-appropiation of funds...) This shows me that the system needs to be overhauled in soooo many ways.

I think the legal/justice/prison system could use the following improvements...

First reduce the number of frivolous lawsuits that are FILED. They can't clog up the courts if they are not allowed to be filed. A few examples come to mind,... The McDonald's hot coffee case. The coffee lid stated, "CAUTION CONTENTS MAY BE HOT". Sorry but If I'm buying hot coffee, I expect it to be hot...

Next, there should be limits put on the awarded settlements. The tobacco law suits come to mind. The jury awarded the plaintiff 250ish million dollars againt Altria. Heck, I'd start smoking for that kind of money!!!!!
Sorry, but there is a warning on the package that it may cause cancer, if someone smokes for 20 years and gets cancer,...well.. (and for the record, my uncle died from lung cancer after chain smoking for 25+ years,...all he coud say when he was dying,..."it's my own damn fault, I'm sorry..." )

Another reaon I don't like the tobacco suits,...it set the stage for firearm companies to be sued for "defective products" when firearms were used in the commision of crimes.

Ok now that should help clear the courts for what this thread was discussing.

Reduce the number of plea bargins.

ENFORCE the mandatory penalties for the convictions. A perfect example of this involves a form that we all know about....4473.

The wonderful state of Maryland stated that the MANDATORY waiting period on restricted firearms (handguns and so-called assualt weapons) prevented thousands of convicted felons from buying guns... BUT WAIT isn't there a mandatory 5 year prison sentence (IF CONVICTED) for a felon who just FILLS OUT THE FORM. And the state used that form to deny the purchase,...couldn't the state/feds also use that form to CONVICT the felon and reduce crime by removing him/her from society for 5 years???? BUT NOT ONE FELON WAS CHARGED/CONVICTED of this....

Along those lines.... If a person is convicted and sentenced to 8 years, don't let him out after 2 or 3!!!

Overcrowded prisons???? Ok On US Navy subs, enlisted men share bunks, they have 8 hours a day to use it. And yet that is EXPECTED, everyday, normal life. I know that you can't do the same in prison for security/logistic reasons. Why can't there be 6 or 8 bunks per cell, not two??????? They get a roof, 3 meals a day, GET PAID, a library, an education, including college (FOR FREE while the rest of us pay for our own education and we pay for theirs!)....

Why do imprisioned criminals have more liberties that law abiding citizens??? The incarcerated complain that the reception on the cable TV is not perfect... Why do they have cable TV to start with??? Sorry but I thought that convicts give up their rights???

I agree with the AZ camp. Violent criminals should, as part of their "debt to society" have to help pay that debt monetarily by working to pay for the facility.

IMHO, If we could change the system, then prison may serve as a deterrant.

I guess I feel very strong about this because my mother-in-laws brother was murdered by a career criminal who was out on parole.. When he ended back in court, my wife told me that he said,... "yeah I did it because he was there...."

uke: :******:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I think non-violent criminals should have to complete an extensive technical training school to get out. Even if they have to start in first grade and go from there for acomplete reeducation. The training should be in industries that are relevant and actaully have jobs then we as a country should subsidize the employers willing to take the chance to hire them. Combined with this education should be a extensive morality driven religious instruction and indoctrination about morals and the persons relationship with eternity.
Violent criminals in almost every case should never be released. Lock them up or execute depending on what they did.

After being trained and given a second chance if they continue to commit crimes we should throw them prison with the violent ones and leave them there.


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