# Political Grandstanding



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080613/ap_ ... fPocms0NUE

i don't believe this or trust NO-bama when it comes to taxes and his stated plan. it plays well though, doesn't it? 97% of the people like to hear this crap, but there are many small business owners and others who would be slammed by this plan. and stop and think about this....does anyone really think he can balance social security on the backs of the top 3% of wage earners??

please, NO-bama, stop insulting people with your grandstanding and fairness game. the fact is, when he and Al Gore finish assessing "*Carbon Footprint Taxes*" we will all be living in mud huts and barely able to afford food and shelter.

as an example, there will be an extra tax on homes exceeding a maximum allowable square footage; an extra tax on vehicles that do not meet a minimum MPG rating; and extra tax on pleasure craft, boats, RV's, etc. this whole scam will be to "change" our behavior and make us citizens more environmentally responsible.

tax, tax, tax.........and more taxes and penalties.....can't wait.... :eyeroll:


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## hammerhead (Dec 22, 2004)

No=bama is a millionaire and he doesn't really care about what taxes people pay. It will all sound good to people until they atart paying for their voting mistake.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

It will help but only in a "Stop-Gap" and temporary way.. just as every other attempt to cure the plague of Social Security has been.

Really, once you are taxing those incomes and it soon becomes "not enough" where do you go from there? Increase rates again? Increase the age of eligibility again? What?

The places to go to confiscate the money are becoming fewer and fewer ... as the article states virtually all Americans pay Social Security (payroll tax) on every cent they earn ... Not that many folks make over 102,000.00 per year.

I would buy into that sort of program if the "stop gap" measure was going in place to cover a disparity (and on a declining scale) over the years privatization of the program into individual accounts was happening (on an increasing scale).

As Ben Stein has been saying ... for a long time ... (and this is not a quote, just a basic line of thought) We have gotten ourselves into a place where we have cornered ourselves and in order to prevent a total collapse of the system the moeny has to come from someplace and that's the only place where the money exists (the rich).

From where I sit ... to continue to confiscate more and more cash to prolong a completely failed and flawed system is 100% certifiably NUTS.

And I'll add this ... If you and I (meaning anyone reading this and myself) teamed up to establish a business that functions exactly like our Social Security System functions ... we would be uncerimoiously toss in jail for fraud.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

hammerhead said:


> No=bama is a millionaire and he doesn't really care about what taxes people pay. It will all sound good to people until they atart paying for their voting mistake.


Isn't McCain a millionaire?Why should he also care if you are using that arguement.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Sounds like another good idea for us comon folk.Thanks for posting that. :beer:

According to you we should just let the rich get richer and beat the rest of us into the ground.Good for O'bama,he is saying what people want to hear.When he announces a change in the tax laws that doesn't allow businesses to take the 3 martini lunch and fly all their execs to Great Bear for a weeks fishing and have the taxpayer pay for it......I will definetly vote for him.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Ken the problem is that he will only push more jobs and corporations overseas with his tax plan resulting in fewer jobs here.


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## hammerhead (Dec 22, 2004)

How can the rich get richer if everyone is paying taxes? People with more income will feel it less. If a rich guy and a middle class guy have cabins at the lake, Who will feel a carbon footprint tax more? A family saves and works there behind off for years to buy the house of their dreams, then they are slapped with a tax because their house is not "green" enough. Will they feel a tax more than a family that has no problem making the payments on the same size house.
I reaize that McCain is a millionaire (or is his wife the one with the money) but as far as I know he doesn't go around telling group after group that he is going to help them. Where is this money going to come from? It's going to come from everyone. And the people with money will feel it less.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

hammerhead, don't use logic in these discussions. It just confuses the staff.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Yup,the "Greed is Good" philosophy still going strong here. :eyeroll:


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

KEN W said:


> Yup,the "Greed is Good" philosophy still going strong here. :eyeroll:


It's irritating how liberals like to try and make us feel guilty for working hard for what we make by calling it "greed". Hey Ken how about making the politicians more responsible for how they use the money they have. It's hard to care for giving more when it's wasted on pork.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I agree......they should be more responsible.Aren't they doing exactly what local people want???Aren't people voting for incumbants because they bring home the $$$$$$$????Don't incumbants tout how much federal money they bring home for the homefolks????

Yet people still elect most of them by landslides.....so how do you change that?Easy for us to say.....cut back on all those poor folks in big cities,but heaven forbid cutting back on exorbitant farm programs that affect us in farm country.

Hey longshot......Do you think our senators and rep's would get re-elected if they voted to end all farm programs????Not a chance no matter if they are liberal or conservative.Talk is cheap.But are you ready to cut programs that provide $$$$$$$to North Dakota????If so.....start naming them.

And your'e right,it is irritating to hear right wingers complain about all the pork,but pork to you is caviar to someone living elsewhere.Ask for massive federal cuts and see how far you get at home.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Well Ken first of all I don't consider the Farm Bill as pork. The pork is all the extra stuff added to legislation to get it passed. The over the top amount of money for food stamps and other programs that were added to it. I would like to see the line item veto established. I think that would at least help some. I think it would make it harder for them to hide some or that pork in good bills. Also I don't see a lot of pork coming into ND. Please point out the pork money coming here to ND would you please. Our own ND state Legislature was rated very high for money responsibility and also for the people of ND doing a good job of voting for taxes when needed. Maybe the feds need to learn from that.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> Also I don't see a lot of pork coming into ND


Might want to take a second look at that. Seems most everyone has their hand stuck in there somewhere along the line. You're right though about pork being just pork. It certainly isn't caviar by any stretch of the imagination except to those greedy enough to accept or excuse it as such.

Washington Post, Thursday, April 24, 2008;
"Mr. Baucus (D-Mont.) and fellow Democrat Kent Conrad of North Dakota are determined to create what they call a permanent disaster relief fund, priced at about $4 billion over the next five years. Ostensibly, the idea is to set up a safety net for farmers beset by bad weather. In reality, the program is a subsidy for those who grow crops or raise livestock on perennially dry, environmentally fragile, land -- much of it in Montana and the Dakotas."


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Longshot.....your first sentence says it all......YOU don't consider the Farm bill pork....like I said above......do you really think the people living outside of farm country don't????To them,giving assisstance to farmers that are getting the highest grain prices ever is pork.

As far as comparing state to federal.....not possible.Districts in the state don't get money just for them.States do.And as I said above......what senator would get re-elected if he didn't......different ballgame.

ND is one of the highest recievers of federal money per person in the country.Others would call that a lot of pork.The problem is that no one wants to get theirs cut.......Or they wouldn't keep re-electing so their boys can bring home the bacon.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Yes ND is one of the highest receivers of federal money per person in the country. Thanks to donor states with higher populations. That isn't going to last long. Those donor states are screaming loader all the time and it will be harder for ND to get that money. My view of pork is the additions to bills that have nothing to do with the original bill. In essence the political way of buying votes. I don't think that should happen. A bill should stand on its own. That's just my opinion. What ticks me off is having to hear that standing against additional taxes is considered "greed". I know you were a teacher. Is it greed that teachers want more pay? I don't think so. We all want to provide the most for our families it's just hard to swallow more taxes when you see it wasted.


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## Sportin' Woodies (Jun 26, 2006)

> It's irritating how liberals like to try and make us feel guilty for working hard for what we make by calling it "greed".


beyond irritating.
if you want to be rich, get rich.
this is america.
quit whining about what others have. its not the govts responsibilty. most of it isnt even the govts business.

taxing the "rich" is usually punishing hard work.
competition drives america.

how bout a nationwide 35% sales tax on everything?
rich spend more right?
poor spend less right?
fair taxation?


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

I got this in an email. It's quite fitting.

*High math from a UGA professor*

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1
The sixth would pay $3
The seventh would pay $7
The eighth would pay $12
The ninth would pay $18
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. Since you are all such good customers, he said, I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. What happens to the other six men, the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?" They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everyone's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth man now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

I only got a dollar out of the $20, declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, but he got $10!

Yeah, that's right, exclaimed the fifth man. I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I.

That's true!! shouted the seventh man. Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!

Wait a minute, yelled the first four men in unison. We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!

The nine men surround the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important.

They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Longshot said:


> I got this in an email. It's quite fitting.
> 
> And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
> 
> ...


*EXCELLENT* post Longshot!

Now maybe some people here might learn a little lesson on economics that need it!


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> Now maybe some people here might learn a little lesson on economics that need it!


Well if they do they will vote Republican. If they vote Democrat then they learned nothing.


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## DG (Jan 7, 2008)

One mans prosperity is another mans problem. Socialists decree that the winners must subsidize the losers. Unfortanetly, they themselves are rarely very productive.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

so true, losers beget losers....of course, it is in the interest of *"fairness"*

 :lol:


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