# 300WSM factory ammo????



## Gooseman678 (Nov 17, 2003)

What ammo do you suggest for deer out of a 300WSM? Just got the gun this fall and have started to test a few different things out... Anyone found a bullet that shoots awesome and good load for deer?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Hey Gooseman

Congrats on the new gun! Which one did you get? I'm seriously thinking of trading in my .300 Mag for a .300 WSM, as I've heard so many great things about them!

Here is the ammo I'd tell you to start with:

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templ ... hasJS=true

150 gr. Winchester Supreme® Ballistic Silvertip®

It's a tish more spendy than cheap Federal rounds, but the shells group extremely well for me... plus in the big scheme of things I want a great round when the moment counts. You only get so many quality shots each year, and I won't skimp on cheap rifle ammo...

Good luck!

Ryan


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

(Sigh..... :-? )

Now why is the 300 WSM better than your 300 mag? Enlighten me....please.....pretty please with sugar on top.......and a cherry.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Jiffy said:


> (Sigh..... :-? )
> 
> Now why is the 300 WSM better than your 300 mag? Enlighten me....please.....pretty please with sugar on top.......and a cherry.


Ok Ok.. because you asked with a cherry...

Primarily because of the reduced recoil and greater ranger of lighter loads from what I've seen....

Is this not true in your experience?

I've heard nothing but positive raves about the 300 WSM..

Ryan


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

They shoot the same bullet.

The recoil (out of simular rifles) is the same.

Ryan, sounds like you've been reading too much. Keep your 300 mag. :wink: :beer:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Jiffy said:


> They shoot the same bullet.
> 
> :beer:


I guess I knew they shoot the same bullet.. I was implying a greater range of bullets you can buy off the shelf (including 130? or 140 grain rounds)..

I haven't found that for the 300 Mag...


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

130's fit in a 300 mag case too..............

BTW, I know you mean factory loads. Give me a break, I'm bored. :lol:


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

What will a 130 do that a 150 won't?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Jiffy said:


> What will a 130 do that a 150 won't?


thanks for humoring my curiousity too... so it's my understanding that a 130 gr bullet will have a bit of a lighter power load to it also.. thereby creating an overall light load.

I was looking for a load to use when using the 300 for does and/or for furbearer without tearing them up...

Sound logic?

Ryan


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Kinda. However bullet construction and placement is more important than grains of the bullet and powder when it comes to "tearing stuff up."

Tip #1: Don't shoot at any furbearer you want to keep for the fur with a 300. In general its not conducive to saving fur. :wink:

I thought that maybe you wanted a faster velocity so you could break the space/time continuum. Go back in time to '85 so you could win state.

WAIT, I forgot the crystals! :lol:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Jiffy said:


> :wink:
> 
> I thought that maybe you wanted a faster velocity so you could break the space/time continuum. Go back in time to '85 so you could win state.
> 
> WAIT, I forgot the crystals! :lol:


85? You mean '92!

We got screwed outta winning state my senior year.. [email protected]$#% St. Mary's and that damn Schafer kid... :wink: We were promised their ****ty field was in good playing condition (and we were supposed to be the first team to play a HS football championship on the turf at the Dome... gotta love construction problems).. If we'd have played on turf we'd have smoked them. Home field advantage with their field conditions was the deciding factor... What can I say? I'm _not_ bitter!!!!  We had one of the 3 best HS football teams of all time in ND... I think we only had 41 points scored on us all year over 10 games? 14 kids from that team went on to play some form of college ball.. Plus we had Erstad...

Ok I'll snap back to present day.. thanks for taking me back there.. damn crystals anyways..

:beer:

Ryan


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

Lighter bullets in the same brass case will mean more gunpowder or faster burning gunpowder, or both. Ballistically speaking, there is NOTHING the WSM will do that the Win Mag won't do better.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Horsager said:


> Lighter bullets in the same brass case will mean more gunpowder or faster burning gunpowder, or both. Ballistically speaking, there is NOTHING the WSM will do that the Win Mag won't do better.


Thanks for the insight.. but can't you use less powder and/or slower burning and slow down the round? Doesn't that also equate to less kick with less powder?


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

And lighter bullets do reduce felt recoil.

If your worried about recoil, buy a .243 :lol:


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

Ryan, when using factory ammo YOU can't do squat about the amount of powder in the case.

If you were going to use slower burning powder to reduce the recoil you'd also need to choose a powder slow enough to reduce velocity, I.E. you'd use a powder so slow as to get an incomplete burn.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Horsager said:


> Ryan, when using factory ammo YOU can't do squat about the amount of powder in the case.
> 
> If you were going to use slower burning powder to reduce the recoil you'd also need to choose a powder slow enough to reduce velocity, I.E. you'd use a powder so slow as to get an incomplete burn.


Agreed... I can't do squat with factory ammo... Jiffy and I kinda drifted off topic for a bit.. I guess I was just talking in general about the differences... at that point I was just asking general ballistics... as if I got a 300 WSM it would be hand loaded rounds designed to be lighter for use on coyotes or does...

Thanks


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Are does harder to kill than bucks?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Jiffy said:


> Are does harder to kill than bucks?


Well you know.. they don't pull their head out of the feed bucket quite as quick.. :lol:

Besides the bucks tend to be quite dumb come rut...

I was referring to custom loading light recoil, light grain load that I could hand load for does... To my knowledge something like that doesn't exist for a 300 Mag.. but I had heard it does for 300 WSM?

True?


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

R y a n said:


> Jiffy said:
> 
> 
> > Are does harder to kill than bucks?
> ...


ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!! It's called a 308. I can't fathom spending extra for the rifle, brass, and using 1/3 more powder than you need to just to get 308-like performance from a 300WSM. It's the equivilant of buying a Corvette for gas mileage. "Yah, it's got lots of power but if I keep my foot outta the gas it'll make 27MPG".

Stop thinking so hard.


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## Gooseman678 (Nov 17, 2003)

Thanxs for all the replys guys... but i guess no one has answered my questions. what Federal factory ammo does someone suggest for the 300wsm for deer?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Gooseman678 said:


> Thanxs for all the replys guys... but i guess no one has answered my questions. what Federal factory ammo does someone suggest for the 300wsm for deer?


Look at my very first post to your question...

Then go click that link..

Ryan


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## ndm (Jul 22, 2007)

Gooseman678 said:


> Thanxs for all the replys guys... but i guess no one has answered my questions. what Federal factory ammo does someone suggest for the 300wsm for deer?


Federal premium 150 grain ballistic tip, 165 grain nosler partition, 165 barnes tripleshock, or the 180 grain federal power shok load. They all will work fine on deer. It's a 300 mag and deer are easy to kill, if you make a good shot its all over, with any bullet you choose. Get out and practice and you will have no worries. Good luck.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

If I were to go the 300Wizzum route, I'd shoot 165 TSX's for EVERYTHING and never need another load for anything that walks in N.A.


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

Horsager said:


> If I were to go the 300Wizzum route, I'd shoot 165 TSX's for EVERYTHING and never need another load for anything that walks in N.A.


Sound advice, but I'd opt for something in a 180, like the MRX. The difference is negligable, just a personal preference.


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

You have to get beyond 600yds for the MRX to shine brighter than the TSX. Most won't get there shooting factory ammo, costs too much to practice.

I agree with the heavier bullet in a Win Mag case, I shoot 200's in both of mine, but the Wizzum becomes dull as bullet weight increases. That case is MADE for 165's/168's.


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## Gooseman678 (Nov 17, 2003)

Thanxs for the reply guys. I think im going to go with the 165gr tsx. Went and shot a few different shells tonite- some $$ others not. Found that the 165 tsx shot the best. 3/4 groups at 100yrds= dead deer in my book. The shells i found that shot the worst were the blue federal 180 gr. On sale at $14 a box couldnt resist putting a few rounds threw the new gun with those to get the feel of it. Thanxs again.


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## themaddmortician (Sep 26, 2006)

Gooseman:

Last time I checked the Federal and Winchester catalog...the 300wsm beat out every ballistic velocity/energy of a regular 300mag. Also the felt recoil of a 300wsm is the same as shooting an odd 6. I know, I own a Tikka 300wsm....love the gun...as for factory ammo, my brother and I both have shot every shell made for this gun....the sad truth is the cheapest shells (Winchester 180gr. Power Points) performed best when shooting deer. When I first bought this gun I purchased the Winchester Ballistic tips 150 gr. because of their velocity and energy...wow on paper it looked impressive. However, that year, I shot 2 does and one large buck; I was not imprssed with the performance as far as expansion was concerned. Then I tried the Barnes X bullets by federal...same thing....when one day last year I stumbled across a Chuck Hawks article that suugested the 180 gr. Power Point.....I gave it a try and wow! That is what I call massice energy deposit, and massive knockdown power. The key thing to remember is that these 300wsm velocities are very fast, therefore you need a bullet that will expand upon impact...the Winchester 180 gr do just that.....My father shoots a 270 and the same thing goes for him he uses the 130 gr Power Point and never loses deer. They usually drop where he shoots them...I know shot placement is key...but not all of us make perfect shots all of the time.

Enjoy your 300WSM and don't worry about the 300 Mag lovers....both guns have their advantages....

Ryan: for the record the 300 Mag has more factory ammo to choose from as the 300WSM is relatively still new. Also you can purchase 200 gr factory with the 300 mag whereas the 300WSM caps out at 180 gr.

Good Luck
TMM


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

themaddmortician said:


> Gooseman:
> 
> Ryan: for the record the 300 Mag has more factory ammo to choose from as the 300WSM is relatively still new. Also you can purchase 200 gr factory with the 300 mag whereas the 300WSM caps out at 180 gr.
> 
> ...


TMM

Thanks for the info... I was looking to find a WSM load that shots the lightest bullet possible as far as grains.... and be commercially available.

Is there a 140 grain option? I was thinking you would be able to get an amazing bullet that was lightweight and lightening fast..

Ryan


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

The wizzum is a bit of an odd creature. With the factory ammo offerings it'll run right with a 300Win mag shooting same. When a reloader gets his hands on both is when things get interresting. It's difficult if not impossible to get factory velocity from the wizzum without running into tell-tale pressure signs (cratered primers, extractor/ejector marks, sticky bolt lift, etc). The 300Win mag however can be loaded 200-300fps faster than factory offerings without undue pressure. In the hands of an experienced handloader the gap between the wizzum and Win Mag is easily 200-300fps. With bullet wieghts of 180gn or more the gap begins to further widen. In practical terms none of this means much as you need to be out to 500yds before -300fps would cause you to miss a 6" kill zone.

Were I to go the wizzum route I'd handload 165/168 TSX's to 3100fps+ and never look back. The TSX will not give you big holes permanent holes. The temporary wound channel created while the bullet is in the target and just after however is devastating and does plenty of damage to get the job done. On whitetailed deer, out to at least 500yds the TSX will also give you an exit wound save for possibly a lengthwise attempt. The wound channel looks much the same @ 100 and 500, predictable golf ball sized exit wounds.


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## themaddmortician (Sep 26, 2006)

Horsager:

On paper the TSX looks great, I shot two deer with them...all in the thoracic area....not much damage...as far as the 500 yard shots, I would be interested to know how many hunters actually consistently take game at that range. I am not knocking TSX Barnes bullets, just the actual need to spend alot of money on a high priced bullet that does not expand properly at high velocities from the 300WSM?

At 200+ yards when a fast shot is squeezed out of the 300WSM barrel I want the utimate damaging..expanding buulet that will quickly harvest the deer I am shooting at.

Target shooting is completely different than game shooting.

When recommending a bullet to a new gun user why recomend a bullet that has to be handloaded to achieve ultimate results...?

Cheers,
TMM


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

MadMortician, I bought my 1st box of TSX's from Connie Brooks (Barnes owner with her husband) at SCI when they were introduced in early 2004. I've killed better than a dozen deer with them (2 at or over 500yds), an elk @ 400yds, loaded them into better than a dozen rifles, and the results are always the same. They shoot bugholes on paper and kill with unequalled efficiency. My avatar is a bullet recovered from my bull elk last fall. I made a poor 1st shot, the bull then turned away from me and his backside was my only target. The bullet still made it to the vitals despite entering the rear quarters, I don't know another bullet that could've made that trip, it is 100% weight retention. When shooting does for meat I'm quite fussy about bullet placement so as not to ruin meat and most any bullet would work. When I've decided to take a buck I don't concern myself with the angle the buck is standing at, I look for a bullet path that'll eventially get to the vitals, and squeeze the trigger. I'm a 1 load for 1 rifle shooter so I load the TSX for my 243 and everything larger. From 243 to 300 Winchester I don't have to wonder "will this load get the job done?" because they all will. I'll tell you this fall how far away an 85gn TSX from a 243 will pass through both front shoulders of a whitetail.


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## themaddmortician (Sep 26, 2006)

Hosager:

I am not going to argue my point about premium Barnes Bullets...if you like them great, I personally would not use them for deer, I'll stick to the Winchester Power Points in 180 gr. and go with what works for my 300WSM.

Cheers, :beer: 
Glen


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

themaddmortician said:


> I am not knocking TSX Barnes bullets, just the actual need to spend alot of money on a high priced bullet that does not expand properly at high velocities from the 300WSM?


Point is that they do expand reliably, all the time, every time, always the same performance regardless of the anatomy encountered during their trip through a critter. You use what you've learned from 2 deer and I'll use what I've learned from better than a dozen deer, an elk, and half a dozen coyotes.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

C'mon Horsager, he shot ALL TWO of them in the thoracic area! And NONE of them expanded properly! That's got to count for something! I've completely given up trying to sell premium bullets to those who are convinced they are a waste of money. Like trying to teach a pig to sing. Waste of time...... and it annoys the pig.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Horsager

I started using Barnes X when they came out in the 1980's. The hollow point was a deformed looking mess at the point of the bullet. They spread copper in your bore like a fat boy spreading butter. Still, they performed, and have only gotten better. The only thing that some find disconcerting is that animals don't absorb all the shock and most run a little ways. What I mean is they penetrate so well that perhaps more energy is expended on the hillside beyond than in a small animal like a deer. The larger the animal the more valuable is the X bullet. 
Your right, they perform the same every time. You could take a picture of ten different bullets found in animals (most are not found) and they would all look the same. Perfect mushroomed four petals.

I get a kick out of people talking about bullet failure. They recover the bullet from a what? Dead animal. They find it in pieces and say it failed. Try telling that to the deer. Today bullets are much better than they were a few years ago. They had to become better to hold together with the new high velocity cartridges. Deer are not cape buffalo. Pick a bullet (not one intended for varmint) and go shoot your deer.

Edit: I will say the smaller the caliber the more important is a premium bullet. Shoot them with a 45/70 and you can pick any bullet. I have shot them with the 223, and then I would use only a TSX.


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## themaddmortician (Sep 26, 2006)

I can't help myself but repeat what I have said all along.

I am not bashing Barnes Triple Shock Bullets or premium bullets. When shooting thin-light skinned game, White-tail deer, the bullet needs to expand in a way that as much energy can be deposited into that animal. Hole punching in my 15 years of hunting whitetail deers does not always count for quick kills. I do not make 500 yard shots. Why? I do not need to. I own 1500 acres of prime hunting land. Most of my shots are under 250 yards. Simply because I always set up in good areas close to riverbottom's and alfalfa fields. In *my* experience premium bullets in 300WSM do not expand very well *in deer*. Most of the premium bullets actually say "controlled expansion" so that they penetrate properly. Why the heck would I worry about a 180 gr. Powerpoint penetrating properly at on a deer? Two seasons a go I harvested a bull moose, using 180 gr. Accubond CT's. Did they work? Absolutley. Would I use another premium bullet on big game...in a heart beat. I encourage Gooseman to try both and get back to us in the late winter.

"Powerpoint bullets, More hunters have filled their tag with this bullet than any other in Winchester's history."
Massive Initial shock and knock down power

TMM


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

themaddmortician said:


> ...as far as the 500 yard shots, I would be interested to know how many hunters actually consistently take game at that range.


Alot more than most hunters, and obviously you, are willing to believe. 500 yards ain't all that difficult to accomplish if you're willing to put in the time.

huntin1


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

themaddmortician

I understand what your saying, and Horsager. I use Ballistic Tip in my 300 mag for deer because I need expansion. I shoot to 1000 yards, not because I need to, but because after shooting deer as close as five yards with a bow, 50 yards with black powder, and 25 to 30 with a revolver I need to do something different to keep it interesting. That, and my knees are to shot to walk that much. 
I don't know about the rest of you, but bullets are kind of like vehicles. I can't find a vehicle that will haul deer, haul bricks, sand, cross mud flats, climb hills, get 30 miles to the gallon, and make all my enemies jealous as I drive by. The same with bullets. Even though a few come close today you can't find one with massive low velocity expansion and penetration. No matter what you have in your rifle at the moment that darn Murphy is going to screw with you. Put in a high expansion and your going to get a close shot at a huge buck facing dead away from you. Put in an X bullet and you will get a shot at a huge buck at 800 yards standing broadside. Although the darn X bullet will perhaps do just fine in that situation also. I think they expand down to 1700 fps. 
If I am walking while elk hunting I carry X bullets in the magazine. If something jumps it's likely to be going dead away. It doesn't make any difference to the X bullet, if you know where the heart is you can reach it. However, on the stock I use a Bearpaw neoprene cartridge carrier, and that normally has a few rounds that will expand well at extended range. That and a rangefinder around my neck, and anemometer in my pocket, etc. I suppose there is a reason my friends call me gadget man.


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## Savage Rookie (Oct 10, 2006)

The only advantage I can see to the WSM is the idea that it is on a short action reducing weight in walking rifles, is it much ...no, but some ppl are pretty nitpicky.


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