# What caliber for new rifle ?



## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

I have a Browning BAR Safari .308 that I use for whitetail hunting. 
Looking to purchase a new rifle. New Browning X-Bolt or the new Winchester model 70. My shots are on average of no more then 150 yards. Mostly within 50 to 75 yards. 
I am wanting to get a bolt action to hunt the whitetails.
I was thinking on going with the .7mm-08 or staying with the .308. 
Any other opinions?
Trying to stay low on recoil. I will not hunt with the .243 any longer, so that is not an option.


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## varmit b gone (Jan 31, 2008)

By the sounds of it your 308 sounds like it would work. If I was to get a different one in your case secnario I would look into a 270. It will hit you a little but it aint bad. And it has the oomph to reach out there and really touch something :sniper: .................................. oke:


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

Not really interested in going over the .308 caliber. As I said, I want to reduce recoil if possible. It is due to a back injury some years ago.
The .308 in a semi-auto is most manageable. Going to the bolt action will increase recoil somewhat. This is why I need to stay with the .308, or go a little lighter in caliber.
I did read that the 7mm-08 was very close to the .308 with a little less recoil. That is why that caliber came to mind for the Carolina whitetails.


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## Wyomingpredator (Oct 16, 2007)

the 7mm-08 is a great caliber for anything upto elk, it has a little better ballistics than the 308, since all it is is a 308 necked down to 284, I would avoid a newer winchester, they are useing a cheaper grade barrel, I have seen 2 bought in the late 90's with bad pitting and both had less than 100 rounds of factory ammo run throught them. then I looked at a brand new one off the shelf anf it had the same pitting. It isn't a problem untill you try to get under a 2" group. IMO


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## jwdinius1 (Dec 14, 2006)

honestly, if u like the 308 keep it, my dad owns 3 of them and my two bros each shoot one, they all swear by them, im the reject of the family and shoot the 7mm, but IMO once you find a good gun stay with it they will both get the job done!! :beer:


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

The new Winchester model 70 I am referring to is the one coming out this year.
Is there reports of trouble with this rifle already?
I thought it has not bee released yet.
As for my .308 Browning Bar, I will never get rid of that one. I have taken down many whitetails with this rifle, and all of them were one shot kills. I had to look for two deer after shooting them. One was only 20 yards from where I hit him. The other made it about 50 yards before plowing head on into a tree.
I have a new Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40 scope waiting for the new rifle, but may just put it on the BAR and buy another Zeiss Conquest for the new rifle, if I can ever decide on the caliber.
I really wanted the 7mm-08, but worry that it may not work well for the shorter ranges of 50 to 80 yards. I only hear reports of how good this caliber is at 200+ yards. I never hear how good it was at the shorter ranges. This is what worries me the most.
The fact that the 7mm-08 cost more for ammo does not bother me at all. I have shopped around and have found that it should cost mew no more then $4 to $5 more per box of 20. If I find the right caliber, I will probably start reloading for that caliber as well for hobby reasons.


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## MagnumManiac (Feb 19, 2008)

elderberry99 said:


> Not really interested in going over the .308 caliber. As I said, I want to reduce recoil if possible. It is due to a back injury some years ago.
> The .308 in a semi-auto is most manageable. Going to the bolt action will increase recoil somewhat. This is why I need to stay with the .308, or go a little lighter in caliber.
> I did read that the 7mm-08 was very close to the .308 with a little less recoil. That is why that caliber came to mind for the Carolina whitetails.


Where in varmintbgones answer did he mention 'going over .308'.He recommended the 270 if you wanted to REDUCE recoil.
The 270 Win recoils about 10%-15% less than the .308,in either bolt or semi rifles.I think you have looked at case size/dimensions to come to the conclusion which cartridges recoil more.
FYI:The 7mm-08 recoils harder than the 270 in most rifles,and with most bullet weights.
Anyway,something to look into before you make a decision on cartridges.
[MagnumManiac[/b]
:sniper:


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## MagnumManiac (Feb 19, 2008)

elderberry99 said:


> The new Winchester model 70 I am referring to is the one coming out this year.
> Is there reports of trouble with this rifle already?
> I thought it has not bee released yet.
> As for my .308 Browning Bar, I will never get rid of that one. I have taken down many whitetails with this rifle, and all of them were one shot kills. I had to look for two deer after shooting them. One was only 20 yards from where I hit him. The other made it about 50 yards before plowing head on into a tree.
> ...


elderberry99,
Sorry to poke holes in your posts,but any cartridge capable of good performance at long range,is going to be far better at close range,isn't this common sense!
The cartridge you choose to shoot at anything has little to do with it,it's the bullets you use,and where you hit 'em.
Have you heard the term 'Use enough gun'!
You CAN kill elk with a 25-06 with the right bullet,placed exactly in the right place,but,wouldn't you be better off using the 7mm-08 with good premium bullets?
I know what I'd do.
*MagnumManiac*
:sniper:


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## darkgael (Feb 10, 2006)

"The cartridge you choose to shoot at anything has little to do with it,it's the bullets you use,and where you hit 'em. "
Yes!!!

Elderberry: "I really wanted the 7mm-08" - then there's your answer.
Pete


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

According to felt recoil charts, the .270 has more felt recoil then the 7mm-08. I am not talking about a 7mm magnum.
I have owned the .270 and .30-06. The .270 shoots more like the .30-06 then the .308 when it comes to felt recoil. A lot of discussions say that the 7mm-08 is a milder shooting gun when it comes to the felt recoil.
As far as common sense telling me that if the bullet is good at longer distance, it should be good for close range, that is not really true. A more powerful round will not expand as well at closer ranges due to it's speed. I have shot calibers that went straight through the deer at close range without expanding due to excessive speed.
The longer range cartridge will slow down enough to achieve the proper expansion for a clean kill.
There is such a thing as being "over gunned" in some cases!
Yes, I would like the 7mm-08 because I have never had one. I do know it is a flatter shooting round then some others and has a milder recoil to it. The concern I have is like I said. I just hope it does not have too much power to be effective at the close ranges.


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## Lemmy (Jan 24, 2008)

I have been shooting a Ruger M77 Mark 1, in 7mm-08 for 5 years now. I think the 7mm-08 is a round fantastic round. You will have no problems with short range work or long range work for that matter (300 yard or so). I am thinking about getting another rifle in 7mm-08, but I was thinking about getting a Remington Model 7 or a Remington Mountain rifle. The 7mm-08 is a short action round therefore designed to be built in lighter rifles with shorter barrels. If you walk a lot, a lighter rifle will make for a more comfortable rifle to hunt with.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

Lemmy,
Thank you for that statement. It makes me feel better now wanting the 7mm-08!


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

The whole thread seems pretty moot to me. There is not enough difference in all the calibers mentioned to make a noticeable difference out to 300 yards. Don't waste your money and keep the 308 you already have.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

iwantabuggy,
I understand your fellings here, however I do want to get a bolt action rifle. I don't really care if it is another .308 or not. I enjoy the caliber. But, if the 7mm-08 will give me a little less felt recoil then the .308 and still give me the same ballistics as the .308, It would be nice. I am now shooting the BAR which is semi automatic. The New one I want is a bolt action. The BAR will absorb the felt recoil more then a bolt action will due to the action. I just want to be a little careful with the felt recoil due to my back injury, or I would not bother at all with the caliber I choose!


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## MagnumManiac (Feb 19, 2008)

elderberry99 said:


> According to felt recoil charts, the .270 has more felt recoil then the 7mm-08. I am not talking about a 7mm magnum.
> I have owned the .270 and .30-06. The .270 shoots more like the .30-06 then the .308 when it comes to felt recoil. A lot of discussions say that the 7mm-08 is a milder shooting gun when it comes to the felt recoil.
> As far as common sense telling me that if the bullet is good at longer distance, it should be good for close range, that is not really true. A more powerful round will not expand as well at closer ranges due to it's speed. I have shot calibers that went straight through the deer at close range without expanding due to excessive speed.
> The longer range cartridge will slow down enough to achieve the proper expansion for a clean kill.
> ...


elderberry99,
Your statement concerning 'recoil charts' saying that a 270 has more felt recoil than a 7mm-08 is ludicrous!They both shoot the same bullet weights,the 270 is chambered in a long action which is heavier than the short actions the 7mm-08 is chambered in,which would make the 270 have LESS FELT RECOIL.
'Felt recoil' is determined by gun weight,stock shape,powder weight and projectile weight,most of these 'recoil charts' seem not to take all these factors into consideration.
Therefore a rifle chambered in 270 is going to recoil SLOWER than a rifle chambered in 7mm-08,which would give less 'felt recoil'.
I have personally shot both,and the 270 definately feels LIGHTER in recoil than the 7mm-08,this calibre seems to have SHARPER recoil IMO,not necessarily HARDER recoil.
I do believe they are both mild kickers,with roughly the same 'felt recoil'.
To your other reply concerning bullets passing straight through without expanding at close range.This can happen with any calibre and any bullet,this is just a fact we have learn to live with.If it happens to me twice I search for another bullet.Once is not enough of a test to make decisions on,but twice at similar ranges,that bullet gets the BOOT!
It is not EXCESSIVE SPEED that causes bullets to do this.It is the make-up of the bullet that causes this to happen.If it was 'excessive speed' ,then hollow point bullets would do the same,but they don't in these instances,they normally tend to 'blow up' on the hide with little penetration.So don't confuse speed with bullet performance,if a particular bullet passes through game at short range without any expansion,then it's not going to expand down range where velocity has dropped off either!
b]MagnumManiac[/b]
:sniper:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

MagnumManiac you have it correct, I second your opinion. I wish I could use my old program on my new computer, it calculated recoil. As far as the term felt recoil, the term was born with the new short magnums. It's a load of crap. I have a 300WSM and a 300 Winchester Mag. If you push a 180 gr bullet at 3000 fps the recoil will be the same in both rifles. The only thing that will change what you feel (I guess you could call this felt recoil) is the weight of the rifle, the recoil pad, the drop of comb, etc.

As far as bullets expanding correctly: Bullets expand more at higher velocities. A bullet traveling at 3000 fps will expand more than a bullet traveling at 2000 fps. A bullet slows down as it travels, so it will expand more at 50 yards than it does at 300 yards. If it does otherwise, I would switch bullets because their quality control is terrible. The only explanation is they must have had a very heavy jacket in the one that went through at close range, or a very thin one that opened up further out. With consistent bullets expansion will be greater at close range.


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## gentleman4561 (Jul 16, 2007)

If your worried about recoil get a limbsaver they make great recoil pads.


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## dd6 (Dec 2, 2007)

You didn't say why you won't use the 243 anymore. 
I suspect, and won't dispute, the 100gr. bullet used is not working on deer for you? 
I'm sure the 243 clan will dispute.
If so, your limiting yourself to 115gr. to about 140gr. unless you use a 30-30 (10-11lb. recoil) class gun.
That leaves in common "std. cals." the 25-06,260,7-08.
Going by several recoil charts, they assume AVG. 8lb. gun, just weighed my Rem 700 BDL 3-9 leu. 30-06 guess what, 8.4 lbs.; all are about 12-13lbs. recoil AVERAGE.
Your 308 150gr. comes in about 15.5lbs. The 270 130gr. shows about 16.5lbs.
Unless you try managed recoil loads, better recoil pad, heavier coat, what else can you do? 
Then again, you could use a bow and really hunt!


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

I agree with MM and Plainsman. As for the difference between the 7mm-08 vs the 308, your shoulder won't know the difference in identical guns, and the animal on the recieving end won't know the difference either. If you get the 308 you can use the same ammo in both. I believe that the 308 might have a veeeery slight edge as far as BC and bullet selection is concerned.

Of course, if you wan't something different, that's another story. But it doesn't seem like you care much about that.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

Thanks to everyone for all the comments and advise. The recoil charts that I have been using can be found here.
http://www.accuratereloading.com/recoil.html
It is a personal thing for me not to use the .243 for deer hunting. I would never say that it is a wrong caliber for hunting. It is just my choice not to use it. It is a great caliber for other hunting or just plain shooting as I enjoy the caliber.


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

I am not disputing anyone here, or saying they are wrong. I am only trying to gather information so I have facts.


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## MagnumManiac (Feb 19, 2008)

elderberry99 said:


> Thanks to everyone for all the comments and advise. The recoil charts that I have been using can be found here.
> http://www.accuratereloading.com/recoil.html
> It is a personal thing for me not to use the .243 for deer hunting. I would never say that it is a wrong caliber for hunting. It is just my choice not to use it. It is a great caliber for other hunting or just plain shooting as I enjoy the caliber.


elderberry99,
The only advice I can give you besides what has already been said here ,is forget those 'recoil charts' you keep referring to ,and find someone with a 7mm-08 in the rifle you want ,and SHOOT it and see!
If it turns out the recoil isn't too much ,then GO with that rifle and calibre.
Just a side note ,I have an extensive shoulder injury that put me out of action for almost 2 years(YES it was BAD).With hard work I am able to shoot all my guns ,from 22-250-458 Lott with the only alterations to my guns being the addition of Pachmayr Decellerator recoil pads(on the hard kickers),so as you can see anything is possible!
*MagnumManiac*
:sniper:


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## elderberry99 (Aug 18, 2005)

MagnumManiac,
You are fortunate that you were able to return to your shooting of all calibers. However, I was not that fortunate. My injury was permanent to my lower disk in my spine.
The hard jolts can send me on a set of crutches for two to three weeks at a time until the swelling goes down again. This is why I am trying to be extremely careful with my next choice. Sometimes you do have to give up things, but I am not ready in this case.
I shoot the semi-auto now for this reason of recoil, but I want the bolt action as well.
Again, I appreciate everyone's help here. Finding someone to let me shoot the 7mm-08 will not be an easy task for me in my location!


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## td321 (Mar 6, 2008)

iv sho 308 the past few years out of a relatives gun because im new to the sport but i am buyin a new rifle this summer im thinkin the tikka t3 hunter i love the tikkas but it will be in either 308 or possibly 30-06 but you cant go wrong with the 308


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## wurgs (Mar 3, 2008)

Good choice, I bought a Tikka T3 last year in 300wsm and LOVE it. It's very accurate right out of the box and would be a good choice no matter what caliber you choose.


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## 7stwchuck (Mar 26, 2008)

My son that is 15 has a remmi 700 in 243 last year I got him a 7mm-08 he was in love with it out of the box . It made its first kill at 175 yds and he has looked back . The 7mm-08 is a good all around cal. has mild recoil with the thump to get out and touch someone, guns are hard to talk about cause everyone has the very best one built and includes me I would not trade my stw for nothing but I have added to the family . I say keep the 308 and bring home a new baby. What ever you do have a good time keep on hunting.


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## johngfoster (Oct 21, 2007)

Maybe I missed it reading through the responses here, but what about a muzzle brake on a 308 bolt gun? This will reduce felt recoil quite a bit, and likely improve accuracy too. You could still use the same amunition as well. Better yet, get a suppressor. This may not be legal in your state though. And they're pretty expensive too.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

You are fond of the .308 and are considering the 7mm-08, you could just keep in in the family and go with the .260 Rem.

That will be my next bolt gun. I already have the Savages in .308 and .243, so it just made sense to me. The next one after that would have to be a custom barreled Savage in .358 Win. Gotta keep it in the family!


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## Hatchie Dawg (Mar 22, 2003)

6.5 Swede


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

I have a Remington Model 7 in 7mm08 with a 2.5 to 7 pentex scope i use in the cedar swamps and still hunting. I hand load it with 120gr bullets and --gr. of 4350. It is a very mild recoiling rifle. I also have a Remington 700 mountian rifle with a 3x9 pentex light seeker scope I use while blind hunting over a cramberry marsh and the beach. It also is a mild recoiling rifle.

How ever my Remington 700 in 300 winchester Mag is milder recoiling then even my 243 in a Remington 700 bdl. It is mag na ported.

The 7mm08 is a great round for deer. I would even consider a 260.

 Al


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

Both of my kids started with a Remington Model 7. Not the youth model, but the nicely stocked one with a twenty inch barrel. It is fitted with a Pachmayer Decelerator pad and Leupold 2-7 compact variable scope. The combo weighs in at seven pounds, seven ounces. I also load the cartridge with 120 grain bullets, which have always worked very well for deer, at all ranges. This rifle is a pussycat to shoot, and as accurate as any rifle I have in my battery. The recoil of is much, much less than that of my sporter HVA in .270 Winchester, shooting 130 grain bullets. Both cartridges are loaded to a hair over 3000 fps. 
I don't feel that you need to be concerned about performance at closer ranges. If you use a quality bullet and place it well....no problem. If you are looking for something that will drop a deer in it's tracks every time.....I don't know what to tell you.
I really think a 7mm-08 is a fine choice for woods ranges, particularly if you handload. There are also managed recoil loads available, which would tame down the recoil from other cartridge/rifle combinations as well. 
Well there's another two cents worth to consider.
Burl


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

I'm going to throw in my :2cents: . I don't know what availability is in a bolt gun. You already have a Browning and are considering another, so you might consider the BLR in 358 Win. It's on the same 308 case, is accurate out to 200 yards with a point bland range, and can be loaded to VERY manageable recoil level. My 358 is a Mauser bolt with an 18.5 inch barrel. Very manageable, as accurate as I can be, especially with a red dot, no doubt about results when it hits. It's just a thought.


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## kgpcr (Sep 2, 2006)

I am a huge fan of the 25-06! great shooting and low recoil. it is one sweet deer rifle!! Does a great job on Yotes as well.


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## TreeHunerd (Jan 28, 2008)

A friend of mine had me sight in a 7mm-08 for him it was a Kimber model 84M I believe anyway it was a lightwieght bolt action from kimber.It kicked like a mule with hornady magnum loads and didnt shoot well until we used slower handloads. The recoil part was because of the gun weight and configuration i'm sure. I dont think u will see noticeable enough performance upgrade from your 308 BAR on deer to get a 7-08,270,25-06 at the ranges you are shooting.One thing I will say I purchased a 260rem a couple years ago and have left my 300win mag in safe more often.The 260 performs much better than the 243 on deer size game using 120-140gr. bullets. :2cents:


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