# Are Lodges Paying Taxes?



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

This question comes up a lot, and I see people are starting to take notice:



> Some lodges likely dodging taxes
> 
> by Tony Bender
> 
> ...


Here's another article:



> Businessman seeks level playing field
> 
> A frustrated Ashley businessman is says the challenges of his business are
> increased in Ashley because competitors are not forced to abide by the same
> ...


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

I have to agree with the Hotel owner (obviously). A level playing field is neccessary. We are licenced, collect and forward tax to our state and communities. 
Most would probably be suprized by the expenditures hotel owner has. Just a couple of months ago during our state inspection we were told we have to have a resturant licence because we give away coffee and donuts in the morning. I have to have new (covered lights) in the laundry in case a buld breaks and gets glass in the towels. Our soap and bleach in our laundry room are regulated and inspected. and so on and so on.
It just goes back to the level playing field thing, Do all the lodges have the neccessary permits like everyone else has to? Lodging licence and tax, Liquor licence, resurant licence, insurance, visable inspection stickers.
I hope he fares well in his battle Its hard enough in small town to keep a hotel motel in business without having to battle with black market lodging.
My :2cents:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

No business pays taxes, they collect them from their customers as Curty correctly noted. Which in this case the lodges will be collecting them from NRs for the most part so I'm sure that will go over great here :lol: , but I doubt it will have any effect on the lodges or their likely wealthy customers. At least the effect that free lance hunters would like to see. Hopefully the state can get some revenue out of them though. What would be nice is if all the taxes from this and any other hunting expenditure was directed toward funding the plots program.


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

This is a very interesting question.

I have wondered how much of the fee hunting income gets reported? How come you never here about the legislature screaming about that?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> How come you never hear about the legislature screaming about that?


Depends on who is getting greased. :******:

Not only the motel owers take it in the neck but other legitimate licensed hospitality businesses too. Funny they put up with it. Curty, do you guys have an association that can move this forward? I always wondered how some of the "hunt clubs" work it when they put up a lodge and roll a different crew through every week?


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

I find this most interesting and could not agree with Curty more. I am glad that Chris posted this. Several months ago I sent a pm to Chris and also Dick about my feelings on this very subject. I was concerned about the number of houses being offered for rent in the classifieds section of Nodak Outdoors on whether they were licensed, inspected and were charging sales tax. Chris informed me he didn't realize this was a problem and was going to continue letting people do it. Fine I respect him on his decision. Dick was concerned about soft outfitting, I felt this was probably as bigger than the guys who take 50 bucks to let you hunt. He didn't seem to think its that big of a deal either. I'm very familiar with what is going on in McIntosh county as well as other parts of this state. The licensed outfitter is paying taxes and are inspected because the health dept. has our names. The problem here is the residents and nonresidents who have bought homes and are renting them out when there not around.Everyone is jumping on this bandwagon. There is mention in another post about Mott and the people renting out there basements. Stop at Gander Mt. or Sportsmen Warehouse in the cities and you will find all kinds of adds for hunting out here.This has been a problem for years and I'm glad someone is finally taking notice.


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

g/o, I laugh at the way you present yourself. I despise you and your kind. You will be the demise of hunting as we know it in North Dakota. I cant believe you have the "balls" to come on a site such as this and spew your propaganda.

I really don't care what all of you "Oh, we finally have a g/o that is willing to talk" guys think. Wake up!!! I for one will not be so PC. I loathe the fact that ND even has hunting lodges. It makes me sick. I have seen it happen in other states and I'll be damned if I will accept it in mine. You lease up land and cater to those that can pay big bucks!! I for one never will. Even though my bank account may say I can.

You want to debate g/o??? Let me know&#8230;.I'll be there!! Count on that!!

PS: I am still waiting for a response from my previous post to you.


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## Powder (Sep 9, 2003)

I know that guys are always reluctant to call and turn people in because violations are hard to prove and many times it can create hard feelings because the person being accused knows who is doing the accusing.

But here's a suggestion. Why don't we take every flyer, every business, card, every advertisement that we see in gas stations, newspapers, restaurants, etc and send them in to the State as a tax violation. It would be annonymous.

If you have physical proof that they are advertising it is much easier to prove that what they are doing is illegal. The State can look at their records and see if they reported the income. I understand that they might not be willing to follow up but without giving them proof they aren't going to just randomly audit people. We need to give them something to work with.


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Jiffy
You are wrong about G/O. He is running a above board operation. He hosted a youth pheasant hunt this fall that was life changeing for some kids. I do not always agree with his views, but I for one, I like to read his posts. If all outfitters were like G/O we would not have near the problems we have!


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## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Drakekiller,

How nice of him. Is he doing it for the kids?? The skeptic in me says no!! Boy, that would be a hell of a PR move to host a youth hunt.....not??? It does not take a business degree to figure that one out.

Lets just say I am wrong about that. Which I very well could be. He and his likes could host 20 youth pheasant hunts a year and it still wouldnt change who he is, what he does, and what he stands for. People need to WAKE UP and smell the coffee.

Back to the topic: One good thing is I am assuming MOST g/o's pay taxes on their gains. They are probably watched just like any other company. However Joe Bob farmer, who charges $200 a gun, more than likely isnt giving his fair shair to Uncle Sam. Im thinking most that do this put it in the coffee can under the bed and nobody ever knows any different.

So you may ask, "Who is hurting us more?" Joe Bob hunter or g/os. Pick your posion. Thats like asking how do you want to die? Firing squad or the gallows? Both ways the outcome is the same. Its just to bad we are talking about the "death"......that IS coming......of our hunting as we know it here in ND. I for one just wont lay down and die. Im surprised there arent more of us.......


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Powder, I do the exact same thing every chance I get. What people do not realize is the liability exposer they are creating for themselves. Whether it be the farmer who charges so much a gun or the person who rents out there basement. If you rent or charge somone and an accident happens its doubtful your home owners or your farm liability will protect you. With all the ambulance chasers there are now days you have to be crazy to do this.


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## Lvn2Hnt (Feb 22, 2005)

What is the language and requirements regarding what G/Os are? What rules/regs must they abide by? Who do they have to answer to? Who's keeping a watchful eye on these "businesses"?

What can we do about violations? What will be done to those violators?

What the heck do we plan to do about it?

And most importantly, what are we going to do about it?

I've got my own ideas, but arguements are hard to win by yourself.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Jiffy

g/o and I have our battles and have had heated disagreements on issues. I still consider him a friend and will continue to do so weather he is a g/o or not. I took the time to contact him. I went and visited him at his place I saw what he does and who he is and no matter what you say about the O/G industry in ND he is the exception to the rule.

The O/G industry and Resident hunters get painted with a pretty broad brush on this site when in reality there are only a few individuals that the opinions are based on.

Contact him. Go for a visit, if your opinion remains the same so be it. I doubt very much that it will if you take the time.

Bob


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

In the town that I live in about 25% of the homes are owned by hunters. Its about 50/50 residents/nonresidents. I know most of these people. Absolutly none of the residents rent out their houses. about 1/2 of the nonresidents rent their houses to others. There are a fair amount of the long time local people that own 1 or more extra houses and they rent those also. Now if I had a lodging owner like Curty(he tries for balance) in my area I would take his concerns into consideration and help with the situation. I do not consider myself to be on the same side of the fence with the hotel/tourism industry. They will get no help from me.

ps There is a Wisconsin dog breeder with a hunting house that gives free stays at his place when you buy a dog from him. There are a lot of dog breeders that use ND in their sales/training of dogs.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Old, You brought up another interesting point. North Dakota is one of the largest dog training states. Problem is they are supposed to be licensed and very few are. So again all who are concerned about everyone being law abbiding should call there warden and have these guys checked out when they are here.


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Now if I had a lodging owner like Curty(he tries for balance) in my area I would take his concerns into consideration and help with the situation. I do not consider myself to be on the same side of the fence with the hotel/tourism industry. They will get no help from me.

Thanks old hunter.I could go on debating this issue forever but unlike the fly by night lodges, the upstanding lodges ect. A motel like ours is here to stay (hopefully). We are here for not only hunting season but for our community year round as well. 
When the winter winds blow and we are heating a large building with no guests in sight we do not lock our doors and say see ya next fall. I am only going to speak for my Motel when I say hunting is a very important aspect to the survival of (this) Motel. With out the extra income produced at this time of year we would not make it through the winter. We dont raise our rates and rape the hunters wallets during the busy hunting season,we just appreciate the business we get from them.

Curt


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