# .204 bullets



## kdog

If anyone has any experience with the .204 (.20 caliber) 35-40 grain bullets, I would like to hear what you have to say about overall performance with regard to pelt damage. Range? It will be under 300, and usually closer to 100 yds. I am interested in the 39 grain Sierra BlitzKing, the 40 grain Vmax, the 35 and 40 grain Berger hollow points, and the 40 grain Nosler BT.

I would appreciate the input!

Thank you!
KD


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## duckp

http://coyotehunter.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=591


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## kdog

Thank you very much duckp - that info helped. Anyone else have any info./experience??

Anyone shooting a .204, I'd be interested to hear what you shoot for a bullet/load and why.

Thank you!
KD


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## saskcoyote

Would help you more if I could, kdog, but I've been busy with other things the last few weeks so I haven't had time to mess with the .204 and cook up the best loads. All I can tell you is what I've read from other guys' experiences.

From what I can see the 35-grain Bergers in particular and 40-grain Bergers to a lesser extent seem to be the No. 1 choice of shooters. There are very few complaints about them.

Others swear by plastic tips like V-Max and Blitz King but there are also a few who aren't happy with the splashes on coyotes.

Once I get into it, I'll be using the Bergers (either the 35s or the 40s, depending on which the CZ likes better) for yotes and plastic tips (probably 39 BKs but again depending on how they perform in the CZ) for gophers and PDs. I'll likely be using H4895 although I'll give IMR3031 a go as well.

I'm sure you've probably come across much of the same info from your research. What are you shooting and what's the twist?


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## kdog

Sask,

Thanks for the reply. I don't have the rifle yet, but it is being made by Volquartsen Custom. The barrel is 24 inches, and a 12 twist.

I have already picked up a box of the Berger 35 gr., and as per your info. I will try the 40 gr. Bergers as well. I have had great results with the .17 centerfire bullets from Berger.

When it comes to ballistic coefficients, the 39 gr BlitzKing seems to be the best out there, but as you noted, it sounds like some guys have found the plastic tips to be too explosive.

I look forward to hearing what you find as you reload for your CZ. Sounds like you may get to it before I do...


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## DeadCoyote

KDOG, 
I have a Savage and it loves the 40gr. V-max's. I have not shot any 
coyotes with it yet so I cant speak on how well it drops them. I know a lot
of guys on other forums there guns did not like the 40gr. bullets, mine 
will shoot dime size 3 shot groups with the hornady 40grainers. Now I just need to see what it'll do on a coyote.


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## rs94

i have the .204 ruger in tikka t3 it seems to like 40 grain hornady v-max i havent shot a yote with it but it does some damage on the other things ive shot


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## kdog

Thank you for the thoughtful replies. It looks like I should try several of the bullet choices out there, and report back to the rest of the .204 owners. Maybe we can all compare notes down the line, and come up with the best flat, accurate and fur friendly bullet. It should be fun!


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## rs94

does anyone know where a guy could get hornady .204 v-max 40.grain ammo cheaper than $17.99 per 20 or get a decent bulk discount?


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## p-dognut

http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.0.cgi
heres a good site to check out any bullet


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## rs94

hornady and remington have good websites with ballistics charts as well


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## JeffinPA

I don't shoot yotes (only cuz we don't have them in DE where I hunt), but I do kill my fair share of fox. Weird thing... the 40 vmax out of my Kimber .204 is crazy accurate and surprisingly fur friendly. Check Cabelas for the orange box HSM .204 reloads. They're pretty cheap and offer a nice variety of bullet options. I believe HSM is out of Montana.

On the other hand, the 50vmax out of my .223 will splash a grapefruit sized hole in the side of a fox, with very little penetration. The last time I launched a 50vmax at a fox from my AR, from about 250 yards, it was stumbling away with half its guts hanging out. I put another in its head and literally vaporized the top half of its skull. That will be the last time I fire the 50vmax.

I'm working up a load for the 65 sierra spbt now and curious to see how it handles.


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## JeffinPA

ps--

On a somewhat unrelated note...

I phone Hornady on Tuesday as a last resort before I retired my old Hornady Projector press. It was badly out of time, and I just couldn't get it adjusted. Bob sent me out to new pawls at no cost, tossed in a few new shell plate wires just because, I installed them yesterday and voila! Works just like new again. That press has got to be 20 years old. What a great company--from their zany phone welcome message, to their caring and thoughtful staff, to their no questions asked forever warranty in spite of the lousy economy... I'll be a Horandy fan til I die.

Anyhow, at the end of the call, I was telling Bob about how explosive the 50vmax was and he agreed the 50 vmax wasnt fur friendly. He suggested their 60 hp match bullets. Thicker jacket he said. If I don't get good results with the soft points I'll try them next.


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## kdog

JeffinPA,

Great to hear from you. I get lonely. I'll be comparing notes with saskcoyote on the Berger bullets - sounds like the 35 and 40 grain (.20 cals) will be fabulous for coyotes. Its probably best to go with the hollow points - as Hornady suggested to you, as they do not expand quite as rapidly as the plastic tipped options. The hollow points seem to penetrate, then expend their energy without an exit, which has been my experience with the Berger .17s for the past 15 years. It's just too bad that the hollow points can't compete with the ballistic coefficients of the .20 cal Vmax/Blitzking. The Bergers though are very accurate due to the match quality control - all of the bullets are exceptionally consistent in weight and concentricity. I've been shooting the Berger .17s (25 and 30 grain) for years with great results on coyotes, so the .20 cal Bergers will be more than adequate. Can't wait to compare notes with Sask, as he has a new .204 that he will be working up loads for as well. Please let me know if you come across any great loads for the 35 - 40 gr bullets in the .204.

Again, great to hear from you,
KD


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## Jaybic

Hey guys,

I was just reading what Jeffinpa was saying about his AR and the 50 Vmax and I am surprised that Hornady would say that they were not fur friendly. I and 2 other buddies have shot several dozen coyotes(no fox...you just dont see many up here)over the past couple years with ARs and the 50 vmax and they have been great on fur. I think I might have them going a little slow tho. Heck, I dont know but probably 90% of the time, a .22 hole going in and no exit, especally with the head on chest shots and even with broadsides.

I used to shoot 40s in my ar and had pretty much the same results. small entry and no exit. That was 26gr H335 for the 50s and 26.6gr H335 for the 40s from a 20in bbl. If the 40s thru your .204 is no beating up on the fur, the slower .223 40 should work out well in your AR perhaps.

Sorry to intrude but I just thought I would share that after I seen Jeffinpa,s experience.

BTW, even tho I am a hardcore.22-250 shooter most of the time, I just picked up a brand new Stag arms stripped lower and I MAY just cross over to the.204 side just for something I dont already have.

Good luck fellas, :beer:

Jaybic


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## JeffinPA

Hey KD and JB! Good to hear from you guys too.

I've been on a kick with my new AR lately and haven't shot my .204 in awhile. I am, however, planning on doing a coyote extravaganza up in the mountains of PA this spring and PA doesn't allow semi auto rifles so the .204 will get some excercise.

I asked Bob at Hornady that same question. Why do I read so much about everyone having great success with the 50 vmax and I'm not. He said it was because the fox is so "thin skinned". I can't compare a fox hide to a yote hide, because I've never skinned a yote, but I can't believe there's THAT much difference. Would seem to me a thicker skinned target would have more explosive splashes, no? Maybe the tougher hide keeps all the jellification inside the critter, rather than exploding out the side?

Also too, I was a little concerned about shooting the 40vmax out of my 1:9 twist 20" AR barrel. That will be some serious rotation lol is your AR a 1:9?

I toyed around briefly with a .204 upper. Wound up selling it (I think here?). I tired of chasing after the coveted brass and the expense of reloading the .204s for trips to the range with my boy. If I don't slow him down at the range, I'm gonna need to install a bbl water cooler.

Congrats on your new toy, keep us posted.

KD have fun working up those loads and let us know how it all shakes out.


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## kdog

Hello Jaybic,

I load the Vmax bullets in my .223. These are 40 grainers, and I have them going about 3700 at ten feet from muzzle. I have shot a fair number of coyotes with this load, and have not experienced the "splash" effect from opening up on the surface. My experience based theory - based on experience with both the .223 and my Swift, is that it is all about velocity. When I have shot coyotes with the fast (Swift) loads using a polymer tipped bullet, I have experienced blowups on entry. It appears to me that the Vmax traveling at a muzzle velocity of 3900 or above, has the tendency to start expanding on the surface. The slower velocities, such as the .223 with the same bullet never seem to have the same problem. I'm sure that all of us shooting a Vmax could attest that "blowups" are extremely rare at anything over say, 100 - 200 yards. This I would attribute to the fact that the velocity, even if started out at say 3900, is down to a less explosive speed at those farther distances.

Back to my favorite subject - the .204 , I will more than likely load/shoot the Berger hollow points just because of what I said about velocity and the Vmax. I think that saskcoyote is way ahead of us in that he has already determined that he will use the Berger hollow points on coyote, and the more explosive Vmax on smaller varmints - due to the velocity of the .204. The beauties of the hollow point (Berger), is that it is very accurate, and it will penetrate on entry - then cause massive internal damage due to it's thin jacket (same as Vmax) - no exit. The thing that appeals to me most with regard to the .204, is that you can shoot a small bullet (40 gr or less), push it at 3800-4000 muzzle velocity (flat shooting), and still have an excellent fur friendly load. There is no doubt that the .204 with this load will stone a coyote out to 400 yards, and I say 400 because that is as far as I would ever dream of shooting. The sad thing about the .20 cal, 40 gr Vmax, is that it is probably a little too explosive for called in coyotes. It is very streamlined with a BC of .275, and otherwise would be the bullet of choice.

JeffinPA touched on riflt barrel twist rate, and this alone can affect any bullet's explosiveness - according to research. A rifly with a fast twist rate will send out bullets with more "explosive" results than the same bullet/load in a slower twist barrel. That may explain why some people complain of consistantly poor bullet performance, while others seem to have good results - both using the same caliber. Just more to think about..............

Good luck if you do go with a .204 Jay, you won't be disappointed. :beer:

PS: I say you at your job a while back Jay, but you were on the phone - probably talking about coyote hunting! :lol: :lol:


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## Jaybic

Kdog,

You saw me at my job??? I am confused, are you local to where I am at?

Jaybic

Ps. My AR is a 10 twist and I have never had 40r Vmax come apart on me, but I have had them come apart on me when spit out of my 22-250 with a 37.4(max) load of varget out of a 14 twist 700. They made perfect bullet holes at 100 yards but at 200 yards it looked like someone took a .410 to my target so it had to come apart between 100 and 200 yards.

I wouldnt think even with a 9 twist you will have any issues due to the lower speed of the .223 but you wont know til you try 'em.


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## kdog

jaybic,

I am here in Rochester, even spoke with you one time (at your job) - before I ever looked at this forum. I'm in the RFD - been there for almost 22 years. Small world isn't it?

I always enjoy your posts Jay, and I hope to compare notes on the .204 if you start loading for/shooting one.


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## Jaybic

Well, thats cool!

I had no idea you were local. Where do you typically shoot when you go to the range?

Next time your in the neighborhood, stop by if you like or we can catch up at the range. Be nice to meet a fella in person, that is if we have'nt already. I can always make time to talk about coyote hunting and shooting. :beer:

jaybic


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## kdog

Jay,

I shoot at the Byron range, but don't get out there enough 

I'll stop by sometime when it works.


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## Jaybic

That sounds fine,

I normally shoot at chatfield as it goes out to 300 yards. The Chester range is nice but only goes to 200.

That explains why we never bumped into each other, but yeah, stop in sometime.

Later,
:beer: 
Jaybic


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## saskcoyote

Yo kdog, got out to the range today. Here are the preliminary specs with the CZ American .204 (I'll try to keep it short). As you know all guns are gonna shoot differently but I thought this might be of interest to you anyway.

I shoot groups of five and use the tightest four. Of those four, I measure from centre to centre of the two widest ones to determine grouping measurement. Other guys do it other ways but this is scientific enough for me. All shots were from 100 yards.

BlitzKing 39 grain: Was surprised to see the IMR 3031 outshot the H4895. Best group of the day was .40 inches using 25.5 grains of 3031.  Second best was 24.0 grains of IMR 3031 which produced a .48 inch group.

The best I could do using H4895 was .54 inches. I got this from both the 26.5 and the 27.5 grain loads. I expected better because from what I've seen on other sites, the favorite load for the 39 grain BK seems to be 27.5 grains of H4895.

Berger 40 grain HP: I was disappointed with the results.  The best I could do using H4895 was a 28.0 grain load that produced a .61 inch group. Second best 27.0 grains of H4895 that produced a .82 group. The other three groups using 26.0, 26.5 and 27.5 grains of 4895 were all over the place.

So, the testing is half complete. I've got 32 grain BlitzKing on order. I don't have any data for 3031 on this so I'll be using 4895 for the 32 grainers.

I'm going to load up a batch of 40 grain Bergers using 3031. I think I can tighten up the .61 group that I got when I used 4895. (Just an aside here, my .223s shoot better with 3031 than 4895 so maybe it'll be the same with the .204)

I'm not going to bother testing 35 grain Bergers. Because I plan on using Bergers for yote hunting and because the large majority of my dogs are shot 50-80 yards, the accuracy I get from the 40 grainers are more than adequate.

This might be of interest. I took the .223 Remy 700 BDL and using a 40 grain V-Max and 14.5 grains of Blue Dot, I shot a .50 group. Sure love that BDL.

So there you have it, kdog. I'm using homemade sandbags so maybe if I had better ones, I could tighten up the groups a bit.

But just think, a couple of my better groups can be completely covered by a Canadian dime. Because a Canadian dime is worth only 8/10 of an American dime, that must mean my dime is 8/10 the size of your dime so maybe my groups are pretty darn tight after all. :wink: LOL

Hope you get that Volquartsen soon. Is it the autoloader? It looks like quite a piece. Looking forward to hearing about your results and the results others get.

(PS: I'm having one heck of a time getting .204 brass. The two biggest sporting goods stores in our part of the country -- Cabela's and Wholesale Sports -- can't even get them. Are you guys down south having the same problem?)

Good luck and shoot straight. Saskcoyote


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## JeffinPA

Thanks so much for sharing your data. Nice to not have to reinvent the wheel.

You Rock,
Jeff


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## kdog

Yo Sask,

Looks like you got some good data. I am surprised that the Bergers didn't shoot as well as the BlitzKings (although anything under an inch is pretty good shooting off sand bags if you ask me). Do you know your velocities? I will be trying the 35 and 40 Bergers, and would like to get at least 3800 with the 40 gr, and at least 3900 with the 35 gr.

The delay on my Volquartsen has been very frustrating.  I really don't know when I will get it. It might take until Fall. Believe it or not, they don't use a 12 twist in their standard barrel, and I had to special order one. The barrels are made in Germany, and special orders can take time. :roll:

As far as brass, I have been able to get it, but I know that the supply is getting tight. If I could get some for you, let me know and I'll try. Would be happy to ship it to you if that is possible. What brand of brass are you loading?

JeffinPA, Nice to see you on here. You must have some load info on the .204 - or do you shoot factory? Sure would like to hear what you have found.

Thank you Sask for the detailed post and interesting data! Good luck with the testing (I'm jealous).

Oh, and shoot straight - Aye. (sorry, I couldn't resist)


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## saskcoyote

Kdog: I didn't chronograph my test loads but based on loading specs from various sites, I figure the 40-grain Berger loaded with 28.0 grains of H4895 is traveling about 3784 fps.

The 39-grain BlitzKing with 25.5 grains of IMR 3031 should be traveling about 3683 fps. A couple factors like barrel length may affect these numbers but I think they're pretty close. This summer, I'll get my buddy who owns a chrono out to the range and run the loads through it.

I'm hoping to get the 32-grain BKs soon and will load them up with H4895. I'll also reload up the two most accurate combinations for each of the 39 BKs and 40 Bergers again with what I found were the most accurate combinations of weight and powder type just to confirm yesterday's testing. It's a lot of messing around but it pays off in the end.

I've got .204 brass on back order from a couple places so I'm hoping one of them will produce. In the meantime, I've got 200 so between those, the .223s and the .17, the biggest problem I'll have is finding the time to shoot them all.


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## JeffinPA

After sampling a few boxes of factory ammo, I bought a half case of Hornady factory 40Vmax for the .204 when I bought the Kimber, which not only gave me a great round for my gun, but will provide 500 empties to play with in my basement. I have nearly shot through it. I think I've only got about 50 shells left. I have the shell plate, dies, powders, and a few loose bullets ready to load, and will do so over the summer.

The new AR .223 has been getting most of the focus lately, but fox season closed yesterday in DE where I hunt, except for a couple counties in MD three hours away. I may do a trip down there. Also, Coyotes in PA can be hunted year round, but not with semi-auto rifles, so should I get some time to run up into the mountains (couple hours north), the .204 will get the nod. Currently the press is set up for .44mag and I've been loading low-octane plinking loads for my 29.

I've been working on fox fur friendly loads for the AR, which is proving difficult. As you commented earlier, the .223 prolly isn't the best choice, but I'm determined to find a happy medium, since I so enjoy shooting the AR. I could always stick a .204 upper on my existing platform, but I'm not ready to give up hope (btw, the .204 uses the same mags, BCG and as .223/5.56--making conversion quite simple). I had a .204 upper and sold it shortly after I got it, as brass is hard to come by and I didn't want to have to chase down the highly coveted .204 brass out of the AR.

Anyhow, thanks for sharing your data. If you ever find yourself in the Philly area, first round's on me  :beer:


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## kdog

Sask & Jeff,

Thanks again for the info., it helps alot to have guys to compare notes with. Sask, I have been looking further into the Nosler BT in 32 grains as a go fast coyote bullet. It appears that the 32 gr at the higher speed has the same wind drift (essentially), similar energy at distance, and has a flatter tragectory than the 40 gr Berger. This is assuming a MV of 4100 for the 32, and 3800 for the 40. You may not care as much about the flat tragectory, due to your anticipated closer shots, but I thought I would run it by you.

The reason I am looking at the Nosler, is that it should hold together (less fragile jacket) better upon entry on a coyote than the Vmax. I recall you saying you are using the lighter bullets only for smaller critters, probably due to the explode on impact possibility of the Vmax. I have cut all of the bullets we have talked about down the center, and found that the jacket on the Nosler is much thicker at the base - as pictured on their web site. It has to hold together better than the other bullets of similar design. The other bullets, such as the Vmax, are thin jacketed all the way around - as pictured on their site as well. The pictures on these sites of the sliced in half bullets are interesting to compare.

Anyway, I will be testing the 32 grainers when/if I get the opportunity, and will have data to share. After years of great results with the .17 centerfire on coyotes, I have no doubts that the 32 gr .204 bullets are adequate. It is just a question of bullet integrity on upon entry.

Jeff, have fun with the .223, I'll bet that's a blast to shoot.

I look forward to chatting more on the .204


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## JeffinPA

kdog, you are brilliant. I've studied those manuals and website for hours, and never noticed the sturdier jacket on the nosler bt. I think that's the answer, and thanks for turning me on to it.

The blitzking, vmax, grenades, and even the new accutip-v by remington are all pretty much identical in cross section. I checked them all today.

I was going to go to a softpoint, but they are ballistically inferior (obviously) to polymer tipped. If the 50 gets preferable penetration, I could even drop down to a 40. Very exciting news for the .224 world.

Barnes makes a triple shock in 45gr hollow point. Anyone ever sent one of these at a critter?


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## saskcoyote

Hey, guys: I'm still on my quest for the ultimate, accurate .204 round. I went out to the range today to see if I could tighten up the groups for the test rounds of a couple days back, plus I touched off a few different loads.

I didn't get any tighter groups although I did get confirmation. The 39 grain BK over 25.5 grains of 3031 again was best of the bunch both days.

Tried some some combinations for the 40 grain Berger using 3031. No dice. Couldn't tighten up the .61 that I got with the 28 grains of H4895. The 40 grain Berger over 4895 will be my coyote round out of the CZ.

Now, the search for the 'little critter' round. And it's not just a matter of cooking up the best bullet-powder combination. Up here, I can't even find some of the bullets I'd like to try. I'm looking for the 32 grain Sierra BK but all the usual places are out of stock and tell me they've back-ordered. When the 32s show up is anybody's guess.

(Apparently, Obama has put the scare into shooters down there. My contacts along with posts I've read from across the border tell me shooters are hoarding components from fear Obama is gonna make life tough for gun guys.)

I was hoping to have the range work and testing done before thaw. I do some animal control work -- in this case beavers -- for our rural municipality (same as a rural county for you guys). If I don't get any 32 BKs, I guess the 39 BKs will be up to the job.

Enjoyed, K, your thoughts on the Nosler. Makes sense to me. Keep us informed about your findings. And it would be interesting to catch a few observations from other guys dabbling in the .204s. Over and out.


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## kdog

Wow, been called alot of things before, but never brilliant. Thanks Jeff! I really do think that the Noslers have greater potential as a varmint bullet (such as coyote), when loaded to a MV of 3800 fps and above. At lesser speeds, I don't think it matters much. In fact, at the slower speeds (.223 speeds), it may be better to shoot the Vmax types. In other words, since the Nosler has more integrity, it may hold together "too well" at lower speeds, and cause an exit wound. Only testing and hunting will tell.

Obama? :roll: Please don't get me started - I just hope we all can survive the next 4 years (Oh, and still have primers and bullets)  In short, yes Obama has many of us scared, and for trillions of reasons :wink:

Shoot straight guys (if you have any bullets or primers :-? )


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## duckp

Interesting and informative chat guys.I'm not a 204 guy but enjoyed it much.I suspect the Nosler BTs will perform as you expect.Sure seem to in 243.IMO,no comparison between the 55 Nosler and the 58 Vmax in the 243.One blows,other doesn't.


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## kdog

Thanks duckp, it's nice to hear what others are finding with the Noslers and the Vmax. In your experience, does the 55 BT at .243 velocities actually exit a coyote, or does it expend all of it's energy inside the body and not exit?

Thanks again for any input you may offer.


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## JeffinPA

kdog said:


> Thanks duckp, it's nice to hear what others are finding with the Noslers and the Vmax. In your experience, does the 55 BT at .243 velocities actually exit a coyote, or does it expend all of it's energy inside the body and not exit?
> 
> Thanks again for any input you may offer.


Amen. Thanks in advance for your input.


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## duckp

I'd say its about a split although I've never really kept count.On closer shots and no bone it exits most of the time.My group doesn't 'put up' fur unless its an exceptional size or quality one we want to keep ourselves so I'm not as fur 'conscious' as many but I rarely see the 'splash' I often hear bantied about either.
I've seen as much 'splash' on 17 Rem and 40 gr 22-250s as I've seen with the 243.
I'd bet,based on my groups experiences,that if you did a poll,you'd have more votes favorable on the BTs than on the V Max's in terms of performance on animals.I'm a true believer and even use 115 gr BTs in my 257 W on deer.

Should mention:The 243 is about 4000 fps as is the 17(25 gr-4020)and the 22-250(40 gr-3980).
Now,with my 220 improved,a 50 gr BT at 4300 flies great but woe to a fox hit within 150 yds.Nevertheless,the BTs fly well up to 4500 fps but thats too hot to try shoot in warm weather.


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## kdog

duckp,

It is my hope that a 32 to 40 gr BT at .204 velocities has sufficiently less energy than a 55 gr BT at .243 or Swift velocities, to allow the bullet to expand (on a coyote) but not exit. I am one of those that are very concerned about pelt damage, and am always looking for the bullet that will (most often) make a small entry, and no exit. I know that the Berger bullets will perform to those standards, but they are somewhat inferior to the "tipped bullets" when it comes to BCs/ballistics.

It is alot of fun to hear all of the input from other shooters, in this quest for the ultimate bullet/load. Next best thing to being out there hunting 

Thanks for the continued input. :sniper:


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## Jaybic

Kdog,

Another hunting buddy of mine is shooting 40 gr vmax thru his CZ .204 and putting down coyotes with nothing but a pinhole going in and no exit. Hes a local cat from down by chatfield. If thats the performance you guys are looking for, I can get his load for you. I dont know what is is but hes a speed-freak and has them going fast as possible I am sure.

Jaybic


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## kdog

jaybic,

Chatfield? It isn't Dave D. is it?? I was on ski patrol with him if it is.

Anyway, I would appreciate hearing about any and all loads that your buddy may have.

Thanks!


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## Jaybic

Nope, not dave but I will look into it and get back to you tho. :beer:

Jaybic


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## duckp

Kdog,
Just a thought here although Jaybic may have found the info you need.I remember 'back in the day'when I shared your concerns but was dealing with the .17,I searched and found a group of sites/groups that dealt almost exclusively with the 17(Coyotegods.com and so on).Would be very surprised if they don't exist for the 204 as well .Could review some 19 cal info as well.Input there would be close and perhaps helpful-ie,Calhouns site etc.


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## duckp

Did a 'google' on '204 reloading data' and was overwhelmed including http://www.204ruger.com/204_data.php
Happy hunting-and reading.


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## kdog

duckp,

Thank you for the posts. I have looked at the .204 web site recently, and have picked up alot of useful info. In addition though, I really like the results you all have to offer. I can't get enough! :beer:


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## saskcoyote

Yo, kdog: Did a quick trip to the range this morning testing 32-grain BlitzKing. Again, the IMR 3031 outshot the H-4895.

Had five different 4895 loads in increments of 0.5 grains starting from 27 through to 29. Five-shot groups ranging from .75 to 1.0 -- not at all what I was expecting seeing that 4895 is supposed to be one of the premiere powders for .204.

Here's the interesting part. I shot five rounds of 26 grains of 3031. Out of those five, three were on the vertical axis of the target measuring .25 center to centre. The other two were about .75 inches above them and were overlapping, and were also on the vertical axis. Now I know I pulled one of the five shots. So, if I discard one of the two-shot groups, I'm grouping .75 vertically. Considering I'm using homemade sandbags, I'm impressed because I think the .25 inch group is what this load is capable of achieving.
I'll head out to the range with the 26-grain 3031 load again just to make sure but I think I've found the ultimate accurate round for my CZ for little critters.

Oh, yeah, just an aside. I earlier tested loads for the 39-grain BK and found 25.5 grains of 3031 to be tightest group at .40 so I loaded up a batch and sighted in the CZ.

Got the itch earlier this evening so went out to the gopher patch and, lo and behold, what do I see? A badger. Well, to make a long story short (I have a bad habit of writing long stories), the only splash from the BK was the splash of Mr. Badger's brains. Farmers and ranchers love when I do that.

OK, back to the subject you raised at the outset. Little critters are gonna get fed the 32 BK with 26 grains of 3031. Coyotes are gonna get 40-grain Bergers over top 28 grains of H-4895 with .61 groups.

So, testing is done. It's been fun comparing notes with you and others. Lookin' forward to more posts on here to see what you guys are getting.

Good luck and shoot straight. :beer: Saskcoyote


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## kdog

Sask,

Thanks for the info and data! Sounds like you're shootin' straight whether it be targets or badgers. :beer:

I hope to have my new rifle by mid to late summer, and can't wait to try several different loads and bullets.

KD


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## kirsch

There are so many comments, my point may have already been covered but just in case, here it goes. Myself and 2 other very dedicated coyote hunters tried the .204 experiment. All of us are very dedicated coyote hunters and actually are highlighted and featured on many predator DVDs so we are not rookies by any means. I shoot both a .17 Rem and 22-250 as my main coyote guns. The .204 should be perfect right, well it wasn't if shooting Vmax or any ballistic tip type varmint ammunition. Here is what we found. We have multiple hits we filmed where the coyote was hit well broadside right behind the shoulder and proceeded to go straight down, only to get up and run away. One was shot 3 times with all 3 shots considered kill shots to finally bring it down. It looked like 3 grenades had hit that coyote on the side. We were shooting 32 grain vmaxs because 40 grain didn't shoot well for us. The 32 grain VMax bullets, kept splashing when I never had that issue with the .17 shooting Bergers. What is the difference, well I shoot 25 Grain Berger Match HPs out of the .17. I also have had issues with v-max in my 22-250 but not to the extent as with the .204.

From what I have seen both the .17 centerfires and .204's tend to go back to the store or sold if a person uses varmint type, rapid expansion bullets on a coyote. Before selling all 3 of the .204s, I loaded up some 30 grain Bergers, and the coyotes dropped like stone after that. We had used the .204 long enough to realize it is a good caliber but nothing better than we already had. If you shoot a .204 at coyotes or anything from a .17 centerfire to a 22-250, do yourself a favor and use a HP and not a varmint load. Bergers are great but their varmint (MEF) HP will do the same thing so stick to standard HPs and you will be happy. Will Vmax's kill coyotes, yes, but there are better choices and you will be amazed with the right bullet how fast a coyote drops and doesn't even twitch when hit.


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## kdog

Hi Kirsch,

Thanks for the info. Great to hear about your experience with the .204. This pretty well confirms what Sask and others have been finding out with the various .204 bullets. I too shoot a .17 (Bergers), and an improved Swift. I Have gone pretty much the same route as you have over the years (haven't graduated to DVDs though ).

In a nutshell, here is what it looks like for the .204: For coyotes, the Bergers (35 or 40 gr.) look to be the best choice. The Nosler BTs will work also, as they are constructed to stay together longer (no splash on impact). I have sliced each of the different .204 bullets down the middle, and found them to be much like the pictures on the respective websites. The Noslers are definitely the stouter bullet, having a base that holds things together longer. This all matches up with what others have told me about the various bullets. As it stands now, I will only be shooting the two Bergers and the two Noslers when I start my testing.

Thanks again for the great input. Now I just need to get my rifle............


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## kirsch

I actually had a misprint as I said we used 30 grain Bergers for the .204 and I meant to say 35 Grain Bergers. My mistake but it looks like kdog we are on the same page with these loads.


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## Jaybic

Kirsch,

What has been your experience with the Vmax in your 22-250s? I shoot them in 3 different 250s that I have as well as a pair of .223s and we have just sledgehammerd coyotes with them although I can think of 3 in about 6 years that were hit and we lost them.

I have shot the 50s at about 3600fps out of my 250s hand usually get a 22 hole in and no exit, same with 40s and have not tried the 55s or 60s yet.

With the 40s, I lost one poorly hit coyote(270 yards at dark....too far back) and the other two that were lost were just clipped high or low and ran away but looked very much alive.

Just curious what your experience has been.

Take it easy,

Jaybic


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## kirsch

Jaybic,

I shot 50 grain V-Max at around 3750 fps out of my 22-250 for probably 5 years. To date, probably a few hundred coyotes taken with that load. However, with all of that said I switched to 50 gr Berger HPs. Although I never lost many coyotes with the Vmax bullets, I did have an occassional splash with them but not nearly as bad as with the smaller calibers.

What I didn't like is coyotes that were hit well that would run 50 - 200 yards and then collapse. When they go down or are hit, I like what you call the "sledgehammer" where they literally just crumple up and don't even twitch. My ratio of this happening since I went to Bergers has increased dramatically. Will a VMax kill a coyote, absolutely but to me a good HP bullet will do it quicker and cleaner. Now, the tough part is the Vmax's have shot great out of every rifle but thankfully my Bergers do too. Speed, distance, placement all play a factor but I have shot enough coyotes to say with my loads Bergers do a better job and typically cause less fur damage. Just my experience and I am sure there are lots of people who will tell you something different.


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## Jaybic

Thanks for the insight,

Do you notice the coyotes go down harder when you shoot them straight on than broadside? I guess for lack of a better term, I call it a "head on chest shot" (my favorite) where a coyote is facing straight at me and I hold 4 inches under his chin and generally they never take a step. The mouth falls open, the back legs fold up and they tip right over. It seems on broadside shots, you get more spinners and runners before they tip over even when hit well but maybe thats a bullet thing too. Not sure.

Anyway, sounds like youve shot enough to know what works better or worse and I agree with you. The Vmax is hard not to use. They just plain shoot well out of pretty much every rifle I have used them in. I do have some Berger 52gr varmint match bullets at home but when I emailed Walt Berger for load data he replied that they were good out to about 250 yards(300 max). I was kinda thinking, "Thats it?" and he kinda said without saying it that there might be other better choices for a long range 22-250 coyote bullet, so I stayed with the Vmax.

I just got another new 22-250 and I want to shoot 55s out of that one and I think I am going to try a 55 Nosler BT which shot well out of another different 22-250 that I have.

Do you have any experience with this bullet? I also tried 55gr Sierra Blitzkings and they tended to blow straight thru the coyote even out to 300 yards which I did not like at all so I quit using them.

Anyway, just trading notes on the subject.

Thanks,

jaybic


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## kirsch

Yes, I have seen frontal shots can really drop a coyote. There is nothing wrong with shooting them there. The only catch is the wind in ND and if you have a pretty good side wind, you don't have much of a target to shoot out so broadside gives you more margin of error especially at longer distances. I have shot coyotes from 250 to 350 with my 22-250 consistently with both Bergers and V-Max. I haven't noticed much difference except the Bergers seem to drop them dead in their tracks as stated earlier. I can't say that I noticed my range decreasing at all with Bergers. Hopefully we can call most coyotes inside of 200 anyway but understand sometimes they hang up or you are shooting at multiples. If you have good luck with your vmax don't change. It could my bullet speed or something else but I wouldn't start out a coyote load with vmax personally. Good chatting with you.


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## Jaybic

I totally understand what you are saying about the wind. I live in MN but I hunt ND 20-25 days a year in Dec/Jan/Feb from Carrington across to the MT border and have ran into that notorious ND wind on too many occasions. 

Dont get me wrong. I'll sure take a broadside shot, especially out there past 200 yards or so but there is nothing nicer to me than that head on chest shot at 60 yards on the first stand of the morning with 2 inches of fresh powder and a 3mph wind. :beer:

Except, when you bark and the second one stops after the shot broadside at about 80 yards. 

Take it easy all,

Jaybic


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## plainsdrifter

35gr. Bergers have been the ticket for me.Clean kills and no fur damage experience.Did a double with this bullet and first was 50yds and second was at 290yds.Quick kills and no fur damage on eithier.The norm is for entrance hole to almost look invisible unless blood flows out.For some reason both my son and I have had poor success with 32gr Vmax although others again claim great success with them I only shoot them on prairie dogs which they perform excellently.I think bullet and particularly the speed associated with that bullet can give quite different results.


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## kdog

Plainsdrifter,

Have you tried the Berger 40 grainers? I plan on trying both (35 and 40 gr), and was hoping that you and others had experience with trying them.
Walt Berger seemed to think that the 35 grain bullet would be the better choice - as you seem to have found.

As for the Vmax bullets, I think that there is a point where fragility meets speed. I use them in my .223 (40 grainers), and they perform well on coyotes, but the velocity is at 3700 fps or less. Once those bullets get pushed at velocities higher than that, all bets are off - especially with a 32 grainer going over 4000 fps. It is not surprising to me that they may come apart on the surface. Throw in a tighter twist barrel, and they may tend to "blow up" on the surface even more. AThat might explain why some guys have trouble with them, and some don't.

Thank you for the great info. Anything else you have with regard to load info., other bullets, etc. would be greatly appreciated! :sniper:


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## JeffinPA

Sorry to hijack your thread...

Anyone in here tried the Barnes triple shock 52gr .224 on yotes in here?

Seems overkill, but I wonder relentlessly about these things...

Thanks,
Jeff

ps--whoever it was that asked me about the 40gr nosler .224 recipe, I finally chronoed it. Average was about 3550fps


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