# The Democratic Superdelegate mess...



## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

The *Jed Report:*



> For most of this campaign, the Democratic Party has been unified by optimism that the eventual nominee would trounce the Republican candidate in November, 2008. That began to change towards the end of February, when the contest between Senators Clinton and Obama began to turn sharply negative.
> 
> The media and the Clinton campaign deserve their share of blame for this. And Obama is not perfect, either. But the people who deserve the most blame are the superdelegates, for it is their indecision that has made this mess possible in the first place.
> 
> ...


Interesting article, and spot on accurate in my opinion. It should have never come to this, and the Dems are handing the election to the R's at the moment.

Quite frankly this whole election business has been drug out too far already. The media is treating this like celeb gossip rag news, and keeping a fire under various stories that have nothing to do with the real campaign.

The Supers should be forced to declare by the end of this month else lose their vote....

Ryan


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> But the people who deserve the most blame are the superdelegates,


I love irony, and I keep thinking of Wrights comments about chickens coming home to roost.

I don't blame the superdelegates, I blame the democrat party. They don't trust the voters ( American people ) so they devised a way to correct any mistake the stupid unsophisticated voters might make. Now that arrogance (chickens) is coming home to roost. You got to love it when a fumble comes together.  There just has to be something wrong with the types of minds that think this way.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> > But the people who deserve the most blame are the superdelegates,
> 
> 
> I love irony, and I keep thinking of Wrights comments about chickens coming home to roost.
> ...


Totally Agree! :thumb:


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Ryan, I can finally agree with you.  The media too often treats important matters like "gossip rag news". Even though there are too many things I can't agree with about the Dems, I honestly felt like this was a race for them to lose, rather than a race for Repubs to win. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out, but I have a feeling the Dems have screwed themselves on this one.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

sdeprie said:


> Ryan, I can finally agree with you.


I have a feeling Steve that we agree on alot more than you realize 

I just like taking up causes and political stances to get some good conversation flowing here. I'm not nearly as liberal as many here would like to paint me.

btw.. I also strongly agree with your post.

:bartime:


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

If you think that it is a notable event for Ryan and sdeprie agree, then I have another one.... I agree with Plainsman!

This superdelegate system from the Dems is egotistical and elitist. For some reason, the Dem party has decided that the elders of the party know what's best, regardless of the popular vote.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

BigDaddy said:


> If you think that it is a notable event for Ryan and sdeprie agree, then I have another one.... I agree with Plainsman!
> 
> This superdelegate system from the Dems is egotistical and elitist. For some reason, the Dem party has decided that the elders of the party know what's best, regardless of the popular vote.


 k:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I guess I have just one question.....Have any of you ever been a delegate to a state convention?If not you really don't know what goes on and how the delegates to the national convention are chosen. :eyeroll:


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> They don't trust the voters ( American people ) so they devised a way to correct any mistake the stupid unsophisticated voters might make.


I'm starting to feel the same way.

Bobm said this about it in another thread,


> There should be a tough civics test in the voting booth and if you flunk you dont get to vote.


Of course that will never happen but it is a good idea. It's pretty scary how stupid our country is. :eyeroll:



> Only 7 percent of those surveyed could name the Nation's first four Presidents in order: George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison. When asked specifically about Thomas Jefferson, only 30 percent knew that he was our Nation's third President.





> In 1996, The Washington Post reported that 67 percent of Americans could not name their congressman, and 94 percent had no idea that William Rehnquist was the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Only 26 percent knew the length of a term of a U.S. senator, and 73 percent didn't know that the federal government spends more on Medicare than on foreign aid. In January 2000 the Gallup organization found that while 66 percent of the public could name the host of "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" only six percent knew the name of the speaker of the House. In 2003, a survey found that 58 percent of Americans could not name a single federal cabinet department.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> If not you really don't know what goes on and how the delegates to the national convention are chosen


There is no big mystery here. The super delegates are not chosen. They are appointed for life by the powers to be. Some of the super delegates are automatically appointed, again not chosen. The state regular delegates are chosen as a one time deal. This has been hashed out before.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

KEN W said:


> I guess I have just one question.....Have any of you ever been a delegate to a state convention?If not you really don't know what goes on and how the delegates to the national convention are chosen. :eyeroll:


I haven't. I thought I had a general understanding of how it works, but I'll admit I'm not sure exactly how it's done. I know it varies from state to state for the dems. Meaning each state selects the criteria for picking their national delegates and has it approved by the national committee.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I've explained this once before.......I think some of you people need to go once and see how it is done.

Choosing who goes to the national convention has nothing to do with the American people's wishes or the state voters.All the American voters do is decide HOW MANY delegates each candidates get,not who they are.

When the ND Democratic convention takes up choosing delegates,caucuses are called for.Each delegate goes to the caucus of his/her choice.Since we have a primary here each candidate is alloted a number of delegates according to who got the votes in the primary.

Say 20 total......9 for Obama 6 for Clinton and no one else recieved enough votes in the primary to get delegates.That means 5 are uncommitted.

So all the people who support Obama go to that caucus and choose ANY 9 people to attend the national covention and they must vote for Obama.The Clinton caucus does the same.

The other 5 go to any caucus who has enough delegates to pick at least 1.In the beginning of the convention each delegate chooses what caucus they want to attend by secret ballot.So if say the Education Caucus doesn't have enough signed up they can negotiate with another like Labor and combine and get a representative that way.

So now we know how many from each caucus.Each has a meeting and nominates people to go to the national convention.Each caucus then votes on who to send.This is where most people don't REALLY understand who is chosen,including most of you posting above.

Who do you think will get the most votes in the causus to be national delegates.....obvioulsy those with big state name recognition.....Senators,Representitives,Govenor,Party Chairmen,and state senators and representatives.An ordinary delegate like myself and all of you people who no one knows have basically no chance of getting picked.Party officials get almost all of them.

BUT.......in the Democratic Party all those people go as Super Delegaes so small timers like US have a good chance to get picked.

So don't sit here and say The Democratic Party is egotistical and elitist.They at least give ordinary people a good chance.

The Republican Party elects all those big name politicians to attend the national convention.The little guys have basically no chance of getting picked.The Republican Party is the one who is elitest and egotistical.If you don't believe me.....go to one of the conventions and try to get elected as a delegate to the national convention.I like my chances a whole lot better as a Democrat than as a Republican.

One thing I do agree with ryan in that the super delegates should have to decide who to vote for by July1.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ken

Are not the superdelgates a way for the big wigs to thwart the will of the people. That was my point. It's like the party doesn't trust their people.

Also, don't the republicans delegates have to vote in line with how the people voted.

What made me think they were arrogant is it appears they are thwarting the democratic process. It looks to me like the people of North Dakota could go 90% for Obama, but the superdelgates could all go vote for Hillary. That to me looks like disrespect for the common person. Have I missed something?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman......no.....super delegates are a way for the average ordinary party member to have a decent chance to get elected to the national convention because they don't have to compete with the big name party officials for those spots.

I can understand why it would look elitest,but it isn't.I would basically have no chance of attending the national convention if not for super delegates.

Yes the Republican delegates must follow the vote of the primary just like Democrats other than super delegates do.

Yes Super delegates can vote for whomever they want.I don't think there has ever been a nomination where the super delegates didn't follow the vote of the people in their state.It hasn't happened this year yet and I don't think it will.....Obama will get enough super delegates to win if he is ahead in the delegate count.So it won't happen this year either.

My point here is the a lot of people w/o name recognition could never attend a national convention w/o super delegates.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Here is the other thread I started a few months back that clarifies the process of "who" the Supers are and what they are (and are not) responsible for...

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... 249#424249

BTW... did anyone watch Boston Legal last night? It was a Priceless parody of the Super Delegate mess we are in right now...

Try to catch it on re-run... it is worth it.

Ryan


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

From that other thread:



> Q. How do you become a superdelegate?
> 
> Democrats have so-called "superdelegates," who go to the conventions by virtue of their elected or appointed positions. New Jersey has 20 Democratic superdelegates including Gov. Jon S. Corzine, its two U.S. senators, seven House members, six members of the Democratic National Committee, and party officials. Two are to be named in April. Republicans have three "unpledged" delegates: state party chairman Tom Wilson and two residents who are members of the Republican National Committee.


I thought you were not a superdegate unless you were one of the party hot shots. Am I confused Ken?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Not sure I understand your question.I really don't know how they are chosen or how mnay each state has.I do know that if you elect a governor,senators and rep. you get bonus delegates.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> BUT.......in the Democratic Party all those people go as Super Delegates


That is not true at all. The super delegates are chosen or appointed by the party powers. What you are talking about is pledged delegates that are chosen at caucuses from each state. The pledged delegates you send to the convention must vote as you said for the candidate they are ordered to vote for. The super delegates can vote for whom ever they please. What do you think all the fuss is about concerning super delegates.



> "Who are the Democratic super delegates? These nearly 800 Democratic party leaders and officials, who may vote independently of their state's primary or caucus results, will comprise 20 percent of the total delegate pool at the 2008 nominating convention. In this year's tight race, their flexible votes may determine the Democratic presidential candidate."


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I know exactly what I am saying.....Super Delegates are party officials who automatically go to the convention with no obligation to vote for someone.

What I am saying is that if there were no Super Delegates as some people above want..... then they would have to be elected at the state party convention......thereby denying the common party member the chance to go.

As a party member,I would rather have them go as a Super Delegate and allow me the chance to represent ND.

The thing is that the Democratic Party makes those rules......if people don't like them.....join the party and change it.....otherweise you have nothing to say about it.....same as any election anywhere.Sitting on the outside looking in and banging on the door gets you nowhere.


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## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

This election the number of super delegates have been put at 800-850. Different sources have different figures. The breakdown of the super delegates are as follows.



> * Elected members of the Democratic National Committee (~450)
> * Democratic Governors
> * Democratic US Senators and US Representatives (including non-voting delegates)
> * Distinguished party leaders (current and former Presidents and Vice Presidents; former Democratic
> ...





> What I am saying is that if there were no Super Delegates as some people above want..... then they would have to be elected at the state party convention......thereby denying the common party member the chance to go.


In other words they would be just like everyone else. Appointed to the convention at a public election and then have to cast a vote as a true representative of the people. No special privileges given to over ride the will of the people.



> As a party member,I would rather have them go as a Super Delegate and allow me the chance to represent ND.


How can they be representing ND if they have the power to cast a vote opposite what the people of ND want? Even if every Democrat in ND had voted for Obama in the primaries and the elected delegates in ND went to the convention with instructions to cast a vote for Obama, the super delegates have the power to override those votes and vote for Clinton. Remember the regular delegates from your state are not super delegates. The super delegates are as outlined above plus those appointed by the DNC , not the people of ND.



> The thing is that the Democratic Party makes those rules


No, the DNC makes those rules and look at the mess it has become.



> if people don't like them.....join the party and change it


No thanks but it wouldn't matter anyway. The party has no say so over the matter. The DNC makes those rules and at present there are something like 450 DNC members. Personally I prefer to have my vote count. If you instead don't mind the DNC deciding for you, well what can I say. Not trying to change your mind Ken. Just attempting to point what I think in my opinion is the error of your reasoning.

What I'm also trying to point out to you is as long as there is such a thing as super delegates then the wishes of the Democrat majority in ND means little to nothing. The Republicans have a system along the same lines but with a much smaller number of unpledged delegates it would be very difficult for this kind of situation to occur. Still, if all unpledged delegates were done away with, then it truly would be the will of the people that selects a candidate.

Bottom Line:
(1) People chosen at primaries as delegates are not super delegates.
(2) The super delegates do not represent the people. They represent the 
party as controlled by the DNC.


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