# Korea



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Can't believe there isn't a topic on here about Korea. What should we do? Do we go to all out invasion? Bomb their nuclear facilities. Try to get China more involved economically? How far are we willing to go to stop them?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Unfortunately the world will hate us even more if we throw the first punch. We may have to because there is no guarantee we can stop a ballistic missile. The best scenario is Kim throwing the first punch and us successfully stopping it.

I'm sure many governments have psychological profiles on Kim Jung Un. Trump should have an idea whether Kim is a spoiled brat bluffing, or a nut job. Kim should temember what happened to Sadam Husien.

Clinton pulled the same dumb move with N Korea that zObama did with Iran. The foolishness of those two presidents eventually leading us to WWIII is highly likely. History has shown us that dealing with madmen from a position of appeasement never works.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

My question, is Kim better left to his own insanity than lose power (via asassination or other) to his generals. Had Hitler given more control or heeded his generals advice we might have a bigger more powerfull Germany right now. It may be a similar situation with Korea.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I think that we need to put pressure on China to get them more involved with what is going on. I think we need attempt to talk things out with them, make them see we aren't the enemy. We need to get the UN way more involved, after all isn't that their job to help maintain peace?

We cannot throw the first punch, but we need to have plans in place that if they were to do something, we need to be ready for a fast, swift end. We cannot afford another long drawn out war in another country without a game plan or end game.

Japan and South Korea need to be more proactive and start putting pressure on North Korea.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

1. China considers us as much of an enemy as North Korea does.
2. China does not wish to lose one of the few communist countries that exist.
3. We have enabled and spoon fed the North Koreans for decades(Clinton administration).
4. China and Russia like North Korea poking at Uncle Sam because it keeps our eyes off what they are up to.
5. Iran is a very similar situation. Hate is too soft a word about how they feel about us yet we gave them the ability to destroy us. Talk about messed up.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

China's economy is fragile and dependent on us, we should squeeze them with trade policy until they take down North Korea


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Bobm said:


> China's economy is fragile and dependent on us, we should squeeze them with trade policy until they take down North Korea


This right here. No need to fire bullets and bombs when China would crumble if we quit buying stuff from them.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

How many US companies are in China? To many with Trump's ear to make it happen.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> How many US companies are in China? To many with Trump's ear to make it happen.


I was thinking the same thing, but there is a more likely scenario. Remember he went after a company that was going to move to Mexico? Forgot the company right now. Brain is fuzzy. I just got out of a sleep test. Anyway what's the chances he would tell some of those companies to move back to the U S or face some punishing consequences?

I think companies in the U S have Trumps ear, but I don't think those who move business to other countries have Trumps ear. They may have his ire.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I believe it was Carrier. Don't forget China owns $1.25 trillion dollars of our debt. They are heavily investing in South America for agricultural and other products. They know we are hooked on buying their crap like crack addicts. If they flicked the switch on importing our ag products our ag sector would completely collapse. In all seriousness it would be crushed. Over 70% of organic produce comes from China. I laugh at that one. People go to the health food store to buy "organic" food produced by a country that poisoned dogs with melamine just a few years ago. There are absolutely no regulations or oversight by any US agency to prove it is organic or even safe. Probably 80% of what we buy comes from China. It is safe to say we are their b--ch. Forgive my language but it is the most appropriate term.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

north1 said:


> I believe it was Carrier. Don't forget China owns $1.25 trillion dollars of our debt. They are heavily investing in South America for agricultural and other products. They know we are hooked on buying their crap like crack addicts. If they flicked the switch on importing our ag products our ag sector would completely collapse. In all seriousness it would be crushed. Over 70% of organic produce comes from China. I laugh at that one. People go to the health food store to buy "organic" food produced by a country that poisoned dogs with melamine just a few years ago. There are absolutely no regulations or oversight by any US agency to prove it is organic or even safe. Probably 80% of what we buy comes from China. It is safe to say we are their b--ch. Forgive my language but it is the most appropriate term.


The larger countries are so tied to one another that if the US fails, so does China, and likewise the other way around. China can't live without us and we can't without them, so they better get involved and reign in NK.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

that's not factually true we don't need China or Russia both of their economies are fragile as are all communist economies

research it


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

We don't need China if modern parents have the nerve to tell their kids they don't need a new iPhone every year.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Bobm said:


> that's not factually true we don't need China or Russia both of their economies are fragile as are all communist economies
> 
> research it


Russia has 0 debt.
And plenty of resources. If you want to talk about fragile....wait until the derivatives pop again, or the market understands that our dollar is backed by nothing.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

TKincaid said:


> Bobm said:
> 
> 
> > that's not factually true we don't need China or Russia both of their economies are fragile as are all communist economies
> ...


Our dollar hasn't been backed since about 1980, maybe longer. I doubt if Ft Knox has a dollars worth of gold in it. Speaking of gold, China has been buying all they can.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Plainsman said:


> TKincaid said:
> 
> 
> > Bobm said:
> ...


Youre right.
1972. Fed Reserve Chairman Milton Friedman and President Nixon took us off the gold standard. Fiat dollars since.
The Chinese may be alot of things. Stupid isnt one of them..

It seems they are running full steam ahead with this North Korean war thing, if you get 10,000, 20,000 troops killed and it becomes a broader conflict, there WILL be a draft.

North Korea is right next to Vladovostok, Russia's giant military base in the East, using nuclear weapons on North Korea is not going to go over well with them if they irradiate Vladovostok.

China is not going to be ok with that, what these fool generals are screetching for, total obliteration with nuclear weapons.
Neo Cons said 20 years ago, these fools like McCain, Kristol, Perle, would be fighting in the desert and around the world for the next 100 years, it's already been 20, only 80 to go.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

No idea, no solutions from this computer.
So much stuff on the internet about the whole picture -China has frail economy...no, maybe a strong economy.,. Russia can bear down on the Korean Idiot...no they won't and can't.....all kinds of theories and opinions about economic pressures, political pressure but what liars do you believe... what is the true story of what is really going on rather than what we get told by ALL the news services and GOVT MOUTHPIECES! Of every country, including, perhaps especially our own country right now! Everyone spews out lies each and every day, and no one seriously questions them. Democrats absolutely accept what higher up Dems spew out, and Republicans absolutely believe and follow what THEIR handlers come up with!everybody loves to point blame at others, which adds nothing to any meaningful solutions. I think we are becoming a nation of lemmings! Do and think what out favorite political team tells us! 
Ain't it nice to be an independent? You can criticize everyone and everything that doesn't smell right! LOL
Heck, I have zero idea what " internet facts" about N Korea are correct, incorrect, partially correct, ad nauseum. What is most frustrating it's almost impossible to objectively find out the truth to what's really going on, too! 
I just pray ( in my own way, Bruce) that we don't get into a nuclear war and find out in 50-100 years that decisions and circumstances that propelled us into it were stupid decisions or worse, fabricated decisions! Been there, done that, but this time the stakes are much higher!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> these fools like McCain


 I don't think someone with brain cancer should be making life and death decisions for the rest of us. The guy was nuts enough before cancer, it can't help any.



> what liars do you believe...





> Democrats absolutely accept what higher up Dems spew out, and Republicans absolutely believe and follow what THEIR handlers come up with!


HH we are absolutely on the same page with your last post. The quotes I have been thinking for years. On nodakangler a couple guys who have their personal bought and paid for legislators get all steamed when I say we have a two party system, perverts and money worshipers. One side is trying to decide which bathroom they should use, and the other side would sell their mother into prostitution for a buck. I dislike them all. Now the conservatives are celebrating Trump cutting back the size of the Bears Ears Wilderness. One side would make everything wilderness, and the other side would graze everything until there were tooth marks on the rocks.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

My nuclear button is bigger than yours.....  

The Trump Whitehouse is starting feed on each other. This could get real ugly. Looks like the Trump empire could have been laundering money. Who is bringing in the popcorn for the show......

According to Steve Bannon.....

"Donald JR will crack like an egg."

"Ivanka is dumb as a brick"


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

We will have to wait and see. The media still talks about collusion even though we now know that it wasn't true. Unless CNN is the only news a person listens to. I would guess it's just another media hallucination.

As to the tweet - ho hum.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

One thing you have to remember is Bannon is trying to sell books! So take what he says or even wrote about with a grain of salt.

The tweet... yeah was a dumb tweet by our president. But he is childish and of course everything he does is "Huge" or "THE greastest" or "THE BEST"....


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I agree dumb tweet. I do think his hard stand has Kim J thinking now. Now he wants to talk to South Korea. Not a big deal, but I think it's just another stall tactic. At least we don't have an Obama type apology tour.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

If Lil Kim starts a nuclear war where does it get him ? Other than 10 minutes of fame. N Korea is only 1 2/3 the size of North Dakota. It would probably only take 1/2 dozen nukes down its centerline to make it mostly uninhabitable. Even if Kim survives he has nothing left to rule but a irradiated wasteland. Even just a couple nukes would be pretty devastating. and they way it looks he may even have a couple of his own go off before they leave the country. He may get lucky and get a couple all the way over here. but again it is of no advantage to him. Theoretically we really don't even need to set foot on the country. We should be able to bomb (conventional) it quite effectively with subs.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Im sure China would gladly stand by and do nothing as their partner is bombed relentlessly, and being a neighbor....
Some of these masturbatory bomb fantasies are nonsense.
We cant do it in Afganistan, we are LOSING the war there, we actually hold LESS ground now than in 2003. 
THe nature of war hasnt changed, bombing itself is not an end all be all and way to win a war independently of ground troops.
Im sure NK has contingency plans, bunkers, anti missile defenses and their own subs to counter some of what we have, plus millions of battle ready and hardened troops, in contrast to our transgender military.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

November, in response to an inquiry from two Democratic congressmen, the Pentagon made clear that the only way to ensure military success would be a ground invasion of North Korea. The Pentagon stated that "the only way 'to locate and destroy - with complete certainty - all components of North Korea's nuclear program' is through a ground invasion. . . . We assess North Korea may consider the use of biological weapons as an option." The parameters of such an invasion and the potential casualties are classified, but in non-classified settings, others have made good-faith assessments of the toll that a land war in North Korea would take.

April 2017, one analyst warned:

Should Pyongyang live up to its threat of turning Seoul into a "sea of fire," casualties in the larger Seoul metropolitan area alone may surpass 100,000 within 48 hours, according to some estimates, even without the use of North Korean weapons of mass destruction. The U.S. Department of Defense assessed that a Second Korean War could produce 200,000-300,000 South Korean and U.S. military casualties within the first 90 days, in addition to hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths.

That could far outpace U.S. casualties in all wars since World War II.

Congress has looked at this as well, although with far less urgency and public debate than are warranted under the circumstances. The Congressional Research Service last year undertook its own study, finding:
Under current U.S./ROK [Republic of Korea] operational plans (OPLANS), the South Korean government has publicly stated that the United States would deploy units to reinforce the ROK in the event of military hostilities. In the event of wartime, and depending on those circumstances, official ROK sources note that up to 690,000 additional U.S. forces could be called upon to reinforce U.S./ROK positions, along with 160 naval vessels and 2,000 aircraft.

That in and of itself raises the question as to whether we have a military of sufficient size (we don't) to fight such a war while maintaining sufficient strength to handle other threats (e.g. in the Middle East, in the South China Sea).

The response from North Korea could be devastating:
The Kim regime could respond to any kind of U.S./ROK military activity through a variety of conventional and unconventional means, any use of which could escalate into a full-scale war on the Korean Peninsula. Detailing specific possible responses is difficult, however, given the scarcity of relevant available literature. In the first instance, despite noted deficiencies in its overall conventional force structure, many observers expect the DPRK would employ its conventional artillery toward targets in South Korea and inflict considerable damage upon Seoul (as detailed in the next section).

In terms of unconventional responses, the DPRK might employ its highly trained SOF to sabotage U.S./ROK targets south of the DMZ. The DPRK [North Korea] might also employ weapons of mass destruction during a conflict with the U.S./ROK. A possibility also exists that a conflict with DPRK could escalate into nuclear warfare, the result of which could be radioactive contamination that could affect all states in the immediate region, including China, Japan, and South Korea. 
As a consequence in this possible contingency, U.S. forces would likely be required to operate in WMD-contaminated zones, and the Korean Peninsula itself could face enormous devastation and loss of life. North Korea also could launch a cyberattack against the United States, South Korea, or other targets. Further, some observers contend that North Korea may already have the capability to launch a nuclear attack against the continental United States, possibly delivered covertly by smuggling, or even through using container ships as a means of delivery.'


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

People are under the impression that wars can be won. While that used to be true it isn't any more. Now days wars are fought to maintain control or a resemblance of control. There is not a single war that has been won since WWII. Battles have been won but no wars... by anyone.... This is our world........ And Korea will be no different.... Any of our generals that feel otherwise are idiots....... The only real use for ground forces is to try to reduce atrocities of war against the civilian population but often it is not even very effective against that. We have reached a point in our history where war really resolves nothing.

It reminds me of a Star Trek episode where civilian names were drawn based on PROJECTED kill estimates and sent to death chambers in lu of actual war. We could just as well do the same thing. The war continued on for 100s of years because no one actually witnessed the destruction and horror of war so there was no incentive to end it nor did it accomplish anything.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

There is a tipping point. Obama did not understand that you can not put off a confrontation with an aggressor forever. Now we have gone beyond that tipping point and Kim J. is to stupid to remember what happened to Sadam H. As they say history repeats itself especially when fools like Obama are in the White House. Hillary would have been the same, Oprah would be even worse, and then we find ourselves having to take more drastic solutions and the world then blames us. We could have settled this with a few small bombs. Put it off and it will end with a nuke. People who don't understand this have led a protected life and never had to deal face to face with a bully. Since we now have all the anti bullying laws non of this generation will understand facing one on your own. Loosen their teeth and they leave you alone. That was my generations solution and it's still the only one that works with people like little Kim.

Liberals will look down their nose and say we are more sophisticated and reasonable. Well Kim isn't reasonable how are they going to deal with that? They don't know how. They are hampered by their own inflated self image.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

dakotashooter2 said:


> It reminds me of a Star Trek episode where civilian names were drawn based on PROJECTED kill estimates and sent to death chambers in lu of actual war. We could just as well do the same thing. The war continued on for 100s of years because no one actually witnessed the destruction and horror of war so there was no incentive to end it nor did it accomplish anything.


I remember that episode. The crew of the Enterprise was listed as casualties along with the leader's daughter,and ordered to a destruction center to be killed. If they didn't,the opposing side would launch real war. Interesting in that episode Kirk got both sides to come together to talk to each other. This had been going on for hundreds of years. But because there was no communication,they found out that neither side wanted to continue the killing.

This episode could be a comparison to today. There has been no attempt to communicate with Kim. Sounds like Tillerson wanted to do this but the fake president said no. BUT along with discussion we would have to follow Theodore Roosevelt's rule......."Speak softly, but carry a big stick."


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Plainsman said:


> There is a tipping point. Obama did not understand that you can not put off a confrontation with an aggressor forever. Now we have gone beyond that tipping point and Kim J. is to stupid to remember what happened to Sadam H. As they say history repeats itself especially when fools like Obama are in the White House. Hillary would have been the same, Oprah would be even worse, and then we find ourselves having to take more drastic solutions and the world then blames us. We could have settled this with a few small bombs. Put it off and it will end with a nuke. People who don't understand this have led a protected life and never had to deal face to face with a bully. Since we now have all the anti bullying laws non of this generation will understand facing one on your own. Loosen their teeth and they leave you alone. That was my generations solution and it's still the only one that works with people like little Kim.
> 
> Liberals will look down their nose and say we are more sophisticated and reasonable. Well Kim isn't reasonable how are they going to deal with that? They don't know how. They are hampered by their own inflated self image.


Libyas Qaddafi nor Saddam had Nuclear Weapons, as does Cuba, Russia and Pakistan and why we havent invaded there.
Both were invaded. IRaq ON Lies. NO WMDs.

The lesson from that to learn is that you are safe IF you have them, Not safe if you dont.
The USA has 700 military bases around the world and YOU talk about Bullying?
We have overthrown more democracies that we've created, but you ramble about bullying?
You want to risk a nuclear war with China over mean words?



















This is part of why this nation is BROKE. And hated. Trump ran on a NO War platform.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

If you see the map, North Korea borders China and trades with Iran and Russia.
Somehow, I dont get the impression that they would like us meddling in their backyard. They occupy no nations, threaten no nations, and are not a threat to our own border or mainland. Why the posturing??

They are well prepared FOR war, and we cant even win any ground in Afganistan and got stale mated in Vietnam. Actually we got run out, fleeing to helipcopters after 10 years and 300,000 wounded and 58,000 killed.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

What this all boils down to, is 1 thing. 
$
And some of you mimic the war hawk talking heads like parrots. Eating it up.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

TKincaid said:


> Im sure China would gladly stand by and do nothing as their partner is bombed relentlessly, and being a neighbor....
> Some of these masturbatory bomb fantasies are nonsense.
> We cant do it in Afganistan, we are LOSING the war there, we actually hold LESS ground now than in 2003.
> THe nature of war hasnt changed, bombing itself is not an end all be all and way to win a war independently of ground troops.
> Im sure NK has contingency plans, bunkers, anti missile defenses and their own subs to counter some of what we have, plus millions of battle ready and hardened troops, in contrast to our transgender military.


I hear you.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Mr Plainsman,

One issue I take with you is blaming all democrats.
Seattle, Pittsburgh and Austin Texas are run by Democrats and are all fine cities, properly managed in every respect.
They are also largely white in demographic.
It might not be PC to state this, but I think race has an overwhelming role. ie Demographics IS destiny.
I come from a family of blue collar democrat supporters, living in rust belt towns, most are fairly conservative in their views. 
The Republican party has been a horrible disappointment and why Trump was hired, To Drain the swamp. That swamp is full of swamp creatures from both parties, with Ds and Rs.

I prefer to call them Marxist Liberals or Bolsheviks personally.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I usually refer to our two party system as perverts and money worshipers. So I have no love for either party. The democrats rob from the working and give to the lazy to buy votes. The republicans rob from the working and give to their donors.

In the event your not American we don't hire our president we elect them.


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## TKincaid (Dec 3, 2017)

Plainsman said:


> I usually refer to our two party system as perverts and money worshipers. So I have no love for either party. The democrats rob from the working and give to the lazy to buy votes. The republicans rob from the working and give to their donors.
> 
> In the event your not American we don't hire our president we elect them.


I will drink to that...


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes I'm not prejudice I dislike democrats and republicans equally. Well, nearly equally. I don't like what democrats promise or do. I like what republicans promise, but the lying pieces of crap don't do it. Democrats lie too when they say they are not anti second amendment. Obama poked fun at gun owners and Christians when he talked about us clinging to our guns and religion. The entire swamp needs draining, and it's because people are sick of it that Trump is in the oval office. It's out way of telling them they have all failed the American people. They gave us such poor alternatives that they guaranteed Trump in the oval office. If the economy keeps improving Trump like Reagan will have a huge majority next election.


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