# .17 vs. 204? Opinions wanted



## harvy (Jan 20, 2006)

17 centerfire or the 204. Which do you think is the better coyote gun. No shots over 200 yards. Opinions with reasons wanted. Thanks Harv.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I would think the 204 may be the way to go. As much as it pains me to say. I have read a lot of stories where the 17 just does not do anything but icepick threw the target. These articles were from a few years ago in the varmint hunter's mag.

At the end of the day it is probably a tossup. I have been looking at getting a 17 rem but I need one more caliber like I need a hole in the head. They sure do shoot fast.

Chuck Norris puts his pants on one leg at a time, just like the rest of us. The only difference is, and then he kills people.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

I love my .17's, but in my opinion there are much better choices if you want to use on coyotes.

25gr HP's at about 3800 fps plus from my 17 mach 4 definitely open up in small critters, and there's no doubt it would kill coyotes very well, but I'd still prefer a .24 bullet in a dedicated coyote rifle. 

Good luck! :beer:


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

.204 no question about it. Among all varmint hot-rod cartridges, .204 is the king.


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

I love 17s but would admit the 204 with 39-40 gr bullets likely better for yotes even with the 200 yd limit.On the other hand,the 17 really smacks em and its more fun to shoot so..???
You can also always go to Coyotegods.com for an unbiased opinion.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

pick up a 22-250 and you won't have to question weather or not you have enough rifle to do the job. In my book they're both very marginal coyote rounds.

xdeano


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ambush Hunter said:


> .204 no question about it. Among all varmint hot-rod cartridges, .204 is the king.


 :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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## duckmander (Aug 25, 2008)

harvy said:


> 17 centerfire or the 204. No shots over 200 yards. Opinions with reasons wanted. Thanks Harv.


Neither. I have heard people talking about shooting dogs with the 204 and not finding them. maiginal at best

the 17 hmr is not a yote gun. small game only.

No shots over 200 yards? get you a 223.

or?


xdeano said:


> pick up a 22-250 and you won't have to question weather or not you have enough rifle to do the job. In my book they're both very marginal coyote rounds.
> 
> xdeano


what he said. 
and dont look back.


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

barebackjack said:


> Ambush Hunter said:
> 
> 
> > .204 no question about it. Among all varmint hot-rod cartridges, .204 is the king.
> ...


Am I missing something funny here?


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

_Neither. I have heard people talking about shooting dogs with the 204 and not finding them. maiginal at best
the 17 hmr is not a yote gun. small game only. _

One thing is to hear things, the other is do it yourself. Don't remember a yote take off from being hit by my .204

_No shots over 200 yards? get you a 223._

If you check out ballistics, .204 beats .223 by all parameters out to 300 yards.

22-250? Great choice but if you reload it yourself, be prepared to pay extra for components. 22-250 also burns more powder which means it has a shorter barrel life.

Personally me, I prefer .243 for yotes, but .204/.223/22-250 are all excellent choices.

Not trying to start a controversy here. Just voicing out...

Peace.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

[

22-250? Great choice but if you reload it yourself, be prepared to pay extra for components. 22-250 also burns more powder which means it has a shorter barrel life.

So since my .308 has more powder than either the 22-250 or the .204 does that mean the barrel is going to burn out faster? I think there are a couple more factors than just the amount of powder. plus they make new bbls every day.


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

Of course there are more factors to it...I never said it's the only factor. :thumb:


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ambush Hunter said:


> _Neither. I have heard people talking about shooting dogs with the 204 and not finding them. maiginal at best
> the 17 hmr is not a yote gun. small game only. _
> 
> One thing is to hear things, the other is do it yourself. Don't remember a yote take off from being hit by my .204


Ive seen to many well hit .204 hit dogs run off to ever let another one in my truck on a weekend of calling.



> _No shots over 200 yards? get you a 223._
> 
> If you check out ballistics, .204 beats .223 by all parameters out to 300 yards.


No disagreement here. The .223 is a dog of a caliber. But you should check the terminal ballistics of those teensie weensie .20 cal pills. They dont perform as well (i.e. transfer their energy into the target) as the 50+ grain pills the .22 cals are able to throw. Put a 50 cal pill in the .20 cal, and those ballistics you .204 guys all love to quote sinks below that of even the .223 dog.

Oh yeah, the "funny part" you missed was the .204 being "king" of the varmint cartridges.


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

I guess you have never seen those vids of 400 yard kills on p-dogs with .204. I think it's on the Predator Master forum.

Anyway, talking about what is "best" in firearms is a bit silly to me because there is no such thing in the world; everyone thinks he knows it best. Just like in politics and religion. So, I wash my hands right here.

I guess it all falls under the personal preference category. Whatever suits you best, go for it. Any caliber can be "superior" if three things exist: a good hardware, knowledge, and skill. You have to have all three to be successful in the field.

Cheers,

AH.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

when did he ask for a Prairie dog gun? We're talking about a 3lb animal vs a 25-30lb animal, that bullet is going to do different thing on both. The 17's and 204's should be left to the varmints, because that's all they're good for. unless you know what you're doing. Pick up a predator gun in 22-250 or 220 swift, heck 243 for that matter.

Don't get me wrong the 17's and 204's will kill a coyote, but i can also kill one with my truck, but you don't see me driving in the fields.

xdeano


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude, sounds like you are in the fighting mood. You need to stop picking my words apart. I already said I prefer .243 for a yote, why didn't you pick up on that?

:beer:


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

Get a 22-250.......ammo isn't that hard to find and components are readily available, at least more readily available than the 204. The 204 isn't, and will never be "king" of the hotrod cartridges. 22-250, in my opinion is still on top with the 220 swift being just below or even with it.


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

Harvy (the original poster),

let's get back on track here without going into any other caliber than those two that you mentioned. You stated under 200 yards, .17 or .204 for a yote. The answer is definitely .204. There is no question about it. I am surprised no one is mentioning .338 Lapua...yet :wink: Let's not get carried away...like I said, it's a personal preference thing. I prefer .243 for yotes and hogs, but there are plenty of hunters including myself who occasionally use their extreme precision .204 for yotes. But for some reason, some folks, both veterans and newbies, think that MORE is BETTER, while in the field, real-world reality, MORE is not what make you successful...

For distances you want to shoot, .204 has plenty of energy to spare, shoots like a laser, and you will not lose the POI in the scope due to a lack of recoil (compared to others). So, enjoy the show! Colhoun bullet is simply one shot-one kill deal when placed properly into a kill zone - right between an eye and ear. Of course, you will have to test all others to find the most accurate load.

AH.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

And im reminded of a saying......."use the right tool for the job".

.17 Rem, .204 are good calibers for what their designed to do (fox, p-dogs, paper). Neither though, are the right tool for a dedicated coyote gun.

Will they kill coyotes? Absolutely. Will a .223 kill a deer, moose, elk? Absolutely. Is it the best tool for the job? Absolutely not.

Using the wrong tool for the job, increases the "marginal hit" area. A coyote hit with a .22-250, a swift, or a .243 may be DRT, that same hit with the .204, you may very likely loose that animal (or at the very least, have a long tracking job ahead of you). Terminal ballistics terminal ballistics terminal ballistics. Their just not there with the .204 on coyotes.

Use the right tool for the job.

You mentioned .338 Lapua.......if money were no object, id have one, and yes, for coyotes.


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

Absolutely! That is why I say over and over that I prefer .243

You are spot on about terminal ballistics. The only thing I'd like to add is that yote's brains don't care what pierced them, dead is dead, 40 gr HP or 100 gr HP. Their skulls are also not that tough...Body shots, however, are a whole another ball game and that's where terminal ballistics are super important.

Good luck everyone...

AH.


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

You take all headshots? Hmmmm.....sometimes a head shot os not available......then what? Are you saying you let the yote walk? I'd rather be over gunned than under and be limited to head shots only.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

Barebackjack and Ambush Hunter

The 338LM while fun is not the best option for coyotes. It does allow you to take some really long range shots. With that being said every time I pull the trigger it costs me one buck. Ok it is really only $0.995 each. That is after the brass has been fired one time. The damage can be real nice but most of the time you get a dead dog or one that walks away and you have to hit it again. The 300gr SMK I am shooting do not really come apart like a good hunting bullet does. Coyotes are a lot softer than deer are. I have had good results with the 300 at long range on deer size critters but coyotes damage is not what I would like. Granted I still shoot at then I just have more run offs than I would like.

Over the years I have used pretty much every rifle I own and I keep going back to the 308 or a magnum. The smaller stuff works but I like the range the bigger stuff gives me.

None of this information is useful to the original topic but it was brought up.

Chuck Norris once shat blood - the blood of 11,940 natives he had killed and eaten.


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

hogcaller said:


> You take all headshots? Hmmmm.....sometimes a head shot os not available......then what? Are you saying you let the yote walk? I'd rather be over gunned than under and be limited to head shots only.


With .204? Yes, head shots only or I do not shoot. Note: When I take .204 on the hunt, I hunt long range p-dogs, rabbits, and g-hogs. But if I see a yote within 250 yards, I know my rifle will do its job. If in doubt, like you said if the head shot is not available, do not shoot, I think it's called being responsible shooter and respectful hunter, right or wrong...?

Otherwise, when I know I'll be shooting mostly coyotes, I bring .243 instead, make sense?

AH.


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

People, it was a joke about 338 lapua, my bad...I don't see anyone discussing this cartridge here for shooting up yotes... :roll: It is obvious that this is not practical, too expensive, and simply overkill. Outstanding caliber for military extreme long range applications.

At least we have a good thread going on :rock:


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Like I said on the .338, if money was no option. Sadly, in my reality, it is. 

It would fill that nice niche between the .308 and .50 BMG. 

Hmmmmm......

.22-250 out to 400.

.308 from 400-800

.338 LM 800-1000 (maybe a tad further)

Than bring in the big 50.

Ohhhh if only id win powerball!
:rollin:


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I was a bit annoyed on my previous post, because it's another one of those 204 threads. I'm really getting tired of it. Just pick up a 22-250 and don't worry about the 204 and head shots, when you start shooting at heads you start to have a smaller margin of error. It doesn't take much to miss a 2x2" moving target. And don't tell me that you wait tell it's stone still because anyone who has ever shot a coyote will tell you that the head never completely stops scanning.

Get the next best, the 375 Cheytac or the 408 Cheytac. No a large caliber rifle is not overkill, because it'll be dead. You can have to small a gun though.

xdeano


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## Decoyin Drake (Feb 21, 2006)

The .204 would be the better choice and lean toward the 40 grain bullets instead of the 32 grain. My precision Hunter .204 shoots the lighter bullet better on paper, but for Coyotes the accuracy difference is nominal. I still would run a .22-250 or .243 if i was looking for a pure Coyote gun.

DD :sniper:


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

barebackjack said:


> Like I said on the .338, if money was no option. Sadly, in my reality, it is.
> 
> It would fill that nice niche between the .308 and .50 BMG.
> 
> ...


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

xdeano said:


> I was a bit annoyed on my previous post, because it's another one of those 204 threads. I'm really getting tired of it. Just pick up a 22-250 and don't worry about the 204 and head shots.
> xdeano


xdeano, with all due respect, it seems to me you have an ego problem. If you are so annoyed, why even bother to respond and irritate others who do enjoy the discussion. That's what trolls do, and I know that you are not one of them....so, the question is rather, what is the deal, bro?

Believe it or not, but this thread *IS* about .204 mainly - just read the initial post. I understand you are a fan of 22-250, perhaps .375 or .408. But perhaps you can start your own thread and _hopefully_ you will have enough devoters to input what you feel is "right". One thing for sure, I will not even participate since I don't shoot these calibers and never will. So, that's a PLUS to you, eh? Until then, let's keep it civil and on topic, please. I am no moderator here but I think everyone agrees with what I just said...

AH.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

AH,

I have no ego problem, I just have an issue with the amount of people that like to praise the 204 as a primary coyote rig when it isn't ment for it. I've seen and heard a lot of testimonials about the 204 to know that it just isn't a good primary gun for people to be pushing a guy towards, especially a person who hasn't shot a coyote and is just starting out. I'd rather point a guy in the right direction vs giving him the usual "Sportgoods Store" opinion, of a bunch of hearsay bs. If you start out picking up a gun that you feel confident in you'll kill coyotes. if you start shooting coyotes with regularity, and loose a lot of coyotes with the 204, your confidence in that gun/round will go down dramaticly and you'll just give up.

So i'm sure someone will add that bullet construction on the 204 will prevent the loss of coyotes with a heavier bullet. So i'll add that by increasing the bullet weight will reduce the bullet performance (ie velocity) down to a 22-250. So why not just pick up the right round in the first place instead of having to wade through all the BS.

These guys come on this board to read others opinions and take it at face value, basically like gospel. It isn't! It's no better than a review about some boots on a sporting goods site.

We're pointing in the right direction.

AH give me a break! if you don't like me adding my 2 cents about the 375 or the 408 then why would you even think about adding the little comment about the 416 B. If you're going to call me out, you'd better not conterdict yourself. :thumb:

AH, I'm also glad that you brought up the thread label, ".17 vs. 204? Opinions wanted." I'm weighing in on the opinions wanted part. :wink:

xdeano


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

God Bless!


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

I'm tired of opinions, so here's some facts.
204 Ruger- 32 gr bullet- 4,225 fps and 1268 ft/lb energy
40 gr- 3900 fos and 1351 ft/lb energy
45 gr- 3625 fps and 1313 ft/lbs energy

22-250- 40 gr bullet- 4225 fps and 1595 ft/lbs energy
50 gr- 3945 fps and 1728 ft/lbs energy
55 gr- 3786 fps and 1751 ft/lb energy

Now, you tell me which would be a better choice! You use the 45 grain bullets in the 204, which I would say is your best bet with 204 for coyotes, and you are still getting less velocity and way less knockdown power than the 22-250 in a 50 gr bullet. If you are gonna shoot coytoes then get a 22-250. If you are gonna shoot prairie dogs and rabbits then get the 204 or the 17. The 22-250, as you can see, is way more versatile......hell, load it down to a 40 grain bullet and you have a "HOT ROD" for prairie dogs and small varmints that is still beating the 204 by 300 fps!


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

*RPG!* Way more energy than 22-250...More is Better, More is Better, More is Better. Funny people, if you are tired so much of opinions (this is the internet forum, remember...?), start your own thread where you can idolize whatever the heck you want. Yet, you keep coming back with your opinionated views and gripe about opinions of others at the same time! :rollin: Where does it leave you, I wonder :huh:


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

Ummmm.......where did I have an opinion? I showed facts......find me one opinion in my statement......please! You seem to be the one getting your panties in a wad.

Wait, I found one "You use the 45 grain bullets in the 204, which I would say is your best bet with 204 for coyotes"! How could I have done that? I guess I am an idiot to say that the 45 gr bullet would be a better choice on mid-size game than a 32 gr......I'm so ignorant! :-?


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

_I'm so ignorant!_

You tell me. The term *Twist Rate* tells you anything? Showing ballistic tables was a real class. I guess NO ONE knew it but YOU. It is obvious you have never shot a yote with .204. Keep on pushing your expert agenda, bro, I want to know more!!!


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

Did you say this? "With .204? Yes, head shots only or I do not shoot." So, you are saying that the only way a 204 is adequate for yotes is with a head shot? Come on dude? Why not take a rifle that you can shoot in the vital area.....instead of just "head shots"? I know the 204 will kill a yote and yes, I own one and reload for it.....AND have killed coyotes with it, but the 22-250 does a better job. Maybe it's you that needs to shoot a 22-250?

You tell me Mr. Expert......what does Twist Rate have to do with this? Please, humor me. The coyote won't be able to tell how fast the rifling is.....BUT he will tell the differnece in 400 ft'lbs of energy!


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

Dude, you need to cool it, really. No, I don't shoot yotes in the body with .204. Heads are freaking easy to hit with a laser bim round. According to other poster, their heads wobble all the time. I guess he confuses yotes with pigeons :rollin:

I wonder if you have ACTUALLY READ what I said earlier. I'll try to repeat. *I prefer .243* for yotes. But when I hunt small game with .204 at long ranges, it will do just fine on yotes withing 200-250 yards IF one happen to show up. No, I don't shoot it if for some reason a head shot is not available. BECAUSE I BROUGHT MY .204 FOR VARMINTS. DIDN'T I SAY THAT ALREADY? Where do you see me joking?


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

harvy said:


> Which do you think is the better coyote gun.


He asked which is a better coyote gun. I agree with you that the 204 would be better that the 17 rem, BUT the 22-250 kicks both their ***** in terminal performance, velocity, and knockdown power when using the same bullet weights. Neither of these guns were made to be coyote guns! They were created to be long range prairie dog guns. Now, if someone asked me about coyote hunting and which gun to choose, I wouldn't hesitate advising them to get a 22-250. I don't know if harvy wants a new caliber or if he is looking for one gun to shoot coyotes with. If he wants a new caliber then go get the 204....it's a cool round, but not the BEST for coyotes!


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

I'm still waiting on my Rifle Twist explaination......


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

hogcaller said:


> I'm still waiting on my Rifle Twist explaination......


Now you are playing game with me, eh :wink:

Since you said "45 gr" I thought you need to be more specific because there are not too many rifles that can stabilize a heavy slug like that. Most of them have 1:12 twist rate. There are also custom 50 - 57 gr bullets in existence but I have never seen them anywhere.


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

Ambush Hunter said:


> hogcaller said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still waiting on my Rifle Twist explaination......
> ...


Good answer.  I am guessing you are referring to the 204 and not the 22-250. 60 is about as high as I can go with my 22-250 in 1:12 inch twist. I shoot the 32 grain V-max in my 204......I shoot the little bullets because I want more velocity and it knocks the hell out of Amherst, TX prairie dogs!


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

Ahhhh...finally we came to a conclusion :beer:

So yes, between the .17 and .204, the 204 is the one. But if the guy wants a dedicated yote/hog rifle, then .22-250 or .243 or .260 are all better choices.

AH


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

:beer:


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## hogcaller (Dec 13, 2007)

Ambush Hunter said:


> Ahhhh...finally we came to a conclusion :beer:
> 
> So yes, between the .17 and .204, the 204 is the one. But if the guy wants a dedicated yote/hog rifle, then .22-250 or .243 or .260 are all better choices.
> 
> AH


Now hold on! My dedicated hog rifle is 45-70......we'll save that for another discussion!


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