# Is my pup gunshy?



## nemitz (Oct 18, 2005)

I am a first time trainer using Fowl Dogs as a method. I went out to throw bumpers for my 7 mos. old female black lab. and when my son fired the .22 the dog stopped in mid retrieve. It was the first time she has heard the gun so I stopped after the first shot. When I took her home I threw some bumpers in the yard for her and when I clapped my hands loudly she did the same thing. Generally she does not stop in mid retrieve.
I have read the sticky on preventing and curing gunshyness is there anything else I need to know?
I am very panicked about this situation as I have very little training experience and a new dog is out of the question ( we love this one too much)


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## duckmander (Aug 25, 2008)

nemitz you will be better served by the real dog trainers on here. as i have only trained a couple of dogs myself. but if the dog ran away from the sound he is shy. if heonly stopped and looked at the sound he should be just fine. myself i would keep up the training and continue the loud noises. clapping, banging on a food dish/pan, slamming a truck door,ect.
then work up in loudness. until he ignores the noise and continues on the retrieve.

good luck.


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## Labs4me (Mar 14, 2008)

watch your reaction when there is a loud noise. You have to pretend you never heard it. Your dog feeds off the energy that you are giving off.

I would go back to retrieves with out noise until they are reliable and perfect everytime. After two hickups take a step back and start again.

Also move the gun fire farther (I start at about 100 yards with a .22 rifle) away to where you can just hear a .22 then work progressively closer until you are over the dog.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

Labs4me said:


> watch your reaction when there is a loud noise. You have to pretend you never heard it. Your dog feeds off the energy that you are giving off.
> 
> I would go back to retrieves with out noise until they are reliable and perfect everytime. After two hickups take a step back and start again.
> 
> Also move the gun fire farther (I start at about 100 yards with a .22 rifle) away to where you can just hear a .22 then work progressively closer until you are over the dog.


Thats what I was going to say.

I guess I have never had this problem, I usually don't do anything different, I just put them on the truck in a crate on training days and let them hear all the noises, I think they just figure it's part of the game from day one.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

get her retrieve crazy again before you start with the gun, and get some reduced noise blanks dont use full power shells and use a rifle not a pistol

if the dog is noise sensitive tread carefully make sure shes right on top of the dummy before the shot so she grabs it instantly after the shot

If you still see a reaction just do a shot every third or fourth retrieve for a while


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## nemitz (Oct 18, 2005)

Thanks for the replies guys. I will keep trying with your suggestions and hope for the best.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

We have used clapping during/signaling feeeding to help both introdcue and cure and gun shy problems. I would be careful introducing your first gun fire with bumpers until you are getting the reaction you want (steady to fire) ... prevent one issue(gun shy) to avoid association with another(retrieve).

It has worked for me...


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## fowl killer (Feb 27, 2009)

I use a cap gun from the dollar store or toy srore around the house, eventually it becomes back round noise.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

I think the mistake made was making the first introduction to gunfire with a .22 while throwing a dummy for the pup to retrieve. A .22 has a crack to it that a shotgun does not....the shotgun is louder, of course, but the .22 at close range can really bother a dog. From what I understand they hear differently that humans do....they are more sensitive to higher pitched sounds (which is why they can hear the "silent whistle" and we cannot). Also, by throwing the dummy and firing when the pup was halfway out on the retrieve, she was too close. First gunfire should be from a greater distance. I usually am at least 100 yards away. If the dog shows any signs of fear, I put the gun away for a few days and try it again from even further. When I see no negative reaction, I start gradually moving closer. Fire only one time in the beginning, and like the other post suggested, watch the dog but act like nothing has happened. Don't praise the dog or do anything else after firing. I also like to just carry a gun for a few days when exercising a dog before I fire it. Get the dog used to the sight and smell of a gun before shooting.

Prior to gunfire I condition my pups to loud noises by banging the dish pan when I feed them (my pans are metal), etc. I like to have them retrieving dummies and I like to have them introduced to birds before I start with gunfire also.

My reccomendation at this point is to have a professional evaluate your dog. This is one of those things where it's extremely difficult to fix the problem. It might not be a problem yet, but it sounds like it very well could be. See a pro.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I think gun shy is sort of like thunder shy. This happens for a couple reasons, one the dog was born a timid dog or it learned it from its mother or was weaned to soon. Its a confidence thing for sure, and will likely overcome it if you can get some real blood and feathers in its mouth. Its hunter instinct should take over.


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## nemitz (Oct 18, 2005)

Thanks again guys. 
Stonebroke: If I could see a pro I would however there are none that I know of in my area, the closest training club is 4 hrs away so I am stuck on my own.
Buckseye:She is a timid dog always barking at shadows etc. However she was with her mother until she was 4 mos. old.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

I also put a gun in the car whenever I begin to work my dogs beyond field work... starting with the pellet gun. I don't bring it with to shoot but rather the association of the sight of the gun with the positive reenforcement of getting to go out of the yard work and to the field. I do this for quite sometime before ever bringing with a gun to fire.

I do the same thing with my e-collar work... from a young age I put the collar on my dogs when I take them for a run or anything away from the house... but never even turn it on. They begin to associate the collar with something positive and take to it very well. It has worked well for me and I have not had problems with negative association with the collar and conditioning.

Again, I am no pro but then again there are very few that have what it takes to train dogs professionally...


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> Buckseye:She is a timid dog always barking at shadows etc. However she was with her mother until she was 4 mos. old


.

How does the mother act?


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## nemitz (Oct 18, 2005)

Good question Buckseye she has her junior hunters title so I am to assume that she is not gunshy. Father is a national master hunter. I will email the breeder tonight and ask about the mother.


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## nemitz (Oct 18, 2005)

Buckseye: Here is the reply from my breeder.

Hi Ward, nice to hear from you. Neither Tee nor Hawk have any issues at all with gunfire or noise. The gun makes both of them go in to high retrieve drive and they are both so excited to hear the gun go off as it means it is time to work. I have not seen that in any of their puppies either. Surprised that Maggie has any issues at all with it. They were exposed to gunfire as young puppies every couple days from about 4 weeks until 8 weeks and then a couple times a week after that. Her sister is perfectly fine and so are the others from what I have heard. Doesn't mean it can't happen but just surprises me. Will she go do the retrieve after she "startles" or will she refuse to go do the retrieve? We bang on all kinds of things and get them used to a variety of noises right from the time they are born. I didn't notice any poor reaction from Maggie with regards to noise when she was young. Keep me posted.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

nemitz said:


> Thanks again guys.
> Stonebroke: If I could see a pro I would however there are none that I know of in my area, the closest training club is 4 hrs away so I am stuck on my own.
> Buckseye:She is a timid dog always barking at shadows etc. However she was with her mother until she was 4 mos. old.


A 4 hour drive might be the shortest drive/best investment you've ever made if it saves your pup from being gunshy. It's your dog, your time, and your money, obviously.......... I don't know what your situation is financially, but if it were my dog and I had the money I'd be getting a pro to at least take a look. Curing a gunshy dog is not a job for a novice....it's one of the toughest problems there is to fix. As it stands now you can try to fix the problem yourself....if you succeed, great.....if you don't you're looking at either feeding a dog you can't use for the next 12 to 14 years or you're looking at finding it a good home.... Good Luck.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

When you are conditioning her to the gun, use ONLY live birds. Don't shoot until she is nearly to the bird and 100% of her attention is concentrated on that birdl.

Start with a riffle instead of a pistol so you can direct the sound away from the dog. If you're determined to use a pistol, hold it BEHIND your back so your body absorbs most of the sound. Don't set your shirt on fire. :lol:

As others have said, don't reward the behaviour if she stops. Say and do absolutely nothing, let the dog figure it out by herself.

She's not gunshy, she' curious of the new sound.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Nemitz... if you can take your pup back to where you got it and put it with its parents and do some shooting. If it sees other dogs accept the noises it just may accept it also. That's what I would do... either that or I would take it on a 3 mile walk every day in new places. The more situations a dog sees as a pup the more willing they are to accept new things. Good luck!!

Of course there is the possibility you have a house dog not a hunting dog.


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## TPL (Oct 7, 2008)

The only way to introduce a bird to the gun is to use live birds and get it bird crazy/retrieve crazy BEFORE introducing gun fire. All this banging pots and pans, and exposing a dog to gun fire at a newborn/very young age is not the way to go. Don't do it. It's true a large majority of dogs will not be gun shy no matter how much banging around and shooting you do around it or at what age, but why take the chance that your dog might be the one that develops the problem. Don't be fooled, just because a pup doesn't bolt or cower or show any phsyical signs to loud noises, doesn't mean that you haven't damaged the dog. I've seen examples of gun shyness as simple as not performing a simple command in the field or having problems with simple retrieves, all the while the dog showed absolutely no fear of gun fire physically. And the owner wondering what the hell is going on. It's very simple to do, if you don't have birds or the time, and have the money, take it to a professional. I hate hearing about gun shy dogs when the proper protocol would have ensured that the dog was fine with the gun. Also, understand, some dogs, no matter what you do will be gun shy as well. Again, the introduction of purposeful loud noises and gun fire at a very young age can only cause damage, don't do it.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

TPL... I agree 100%


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