# Minnesotans are praying for a ND drought



## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Now that I have your attention let me say I am more qualified to write the previous ND hunter post than this one. I am currently an ex-ND living in Minnesota. I occasionally hunt geese and never ducks in MN. I have read quite a bit so I guess I am a library historian on this one.

Minnesota has a long tradition of waterfowl hunters. Historically MN hunters have harvested more birds than just about any other state in the MS flyway (except Louisiana). The total number of birds shot and birds per hunter often dwarfed the numbers posted each fall by North Dakota. These are not just a bunch of divers. I believe the numbers show about 30% of the ducks shot in MN are divers. Balance are mallards, wood ducks, and teal. MN often leads the nation in total number of Canada geese shot by hunters.

The quality of duck hunting in MN has really slipped in the past 5 years. Just like the snow geese in ND, many of the ducks that migrated through MN are either shifting flyways or sitting in Canada until freeze-up. They main migration of ducks through MN often happens during deer opener.

There is a lot of discussion about why the quality of hunting in MN has dropped.

More ducks are sitting in ND because the habitat is better.

Some believe that many of the MN nesting birds migrate to the Dakotas in August. Western MN is full of ducks in July - by mid September most have moved on. I have shot a banded Mallard in ND that was banded that summer in Ontario - so maybe they are right.

The water level of ponds in MN are too high and full of minnows which degrade the wetland habitat. Thus food source is poor. Plus ND has small grains that attract big flocks of mallards.

Many of the large shallow wetlands in MN have been degraded by silt intrusion to the point that ducks no longer find them attractive.

In the 1980s/early '90s (DROUGHT) I was a ND resident struggling to find any water for duck hunting (fantastic hunting when we found these ducks concentrated on the few remaining spots). Minnesotans on average where having consistent and exceptional hunting. The birds could not go to ND. Birds from Canada over flew ND. Small ponds, marshes, and big lakes all produced ducks in MN.

Thus a MN hunter did not need to travel to ND for ducks. I bet most of the MN hunters in ND in 1990 were there to hunt SNOW GEESE.

Minnesota biologist are attempting to find a fix - if they are partially successful, less MN hunters will head to ND.

Many in MN are praying for a ND drought. Sure there will be less ducks overall, but they will all be in MN come October. Maybe just maybe I will try hunt ducks in MN then - no I doubt it.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

If it's dry here there won't be any ducks to hatch here and fly over into MN.They will overfly us into Canada looking for better conditions.It is dry in southern Canada also,so they will move north into the parklands.That's a long way from MN.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

That was just not the case in the 1980s and early 1990s for many MN hunters. Yes - less birds were hatched and lower limits, but many more ducks stopped over in MN and much better hunting in MN. I guess the parkland birds made an eastern turn over the red.

Waterfowl move east and west as much as they do north and south. All the Tundra Swans in ND in late October - nearly every single one winters in North Carolina. Texas, Kansas - do not see one.

Banding studies show that ducks do not simply fly north and south either. I have shot an Ontario banded mallard in ND. Look at the Arkansas harvest statistics (bands). ND, Manitoba, and Sask. supply this southern state with a lot of mallards.

MN hatched ducks are believed to trans-migrate into ND in August or September. Why ??


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

priarie hunter,
I agree with your post almost entirely as to why the MN duck hunting has gone bad. I think you missed one point that unfortunately we are grappling with now in ND - Access. I have a lake place in western MN and have experienced this first hand. The last two years my son and his friend did their home work and have tried to get permission to hunt the big Canadas. They're still looking. Last year they found 22 small flocks and were turned down every time. Too many people already hunting.

Our lake has a large bay that contains one of the largest stands of wld rice you've ever seen. The ducks are there now and throughout the Summer and Fall. I don't hunt as I just never grew up with the boat hunting but as I'm there some weekends fishing, there seems to be a boat and decoy spread every 500 yards or so. The locals told me they used to shoot limits of divers, mallards, and teal the entire season but now it's ruined as more and more hunters use the same resources.....sound familiar at all. Any questions as to why some of us ND hunters are trying to protect what we have.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Where I hunt in ND there just is no issue with competition for hunting spots with either residents or nonresidents. In the past 5 years I have averaged hunting in ND about 12 days each fall. Of the twelve days maybe 7 or 8 for waterfowl.

I am not near Jamestown and I am no where near Devils Lake.

Sure we see other hunters. Each fall we have found huge flocks of mallards ... some in eyesight of major ND highways. Areas along the big ND refuges (ND/Canada border) have a fraction of the hunters that were once there when the snow geese staged on these ponds.

Counterpoint:
Lets say there are ND people who own and pay taxes on lake homes in western MN. I have quite a few old ND friends or their parents that do the same. Great place to be in the summer. Of course SE ND has Morton Pond and Brewer Lake.

How is that different than a person or group from MN or IL that leases or even buys ND farmland for hunting. Recreation in a different form.

Development of lakeshore property is a major reason why many Minnesota lakes have lost some of there productivity.

Is the influx of NR lake home buyers in MN increasing the property values to the point that someone local to that area can no longer buy or own lake property too ?

What if MN was to set up a law that allowed people from ND two weeks of fishing, in specified zones ? Your cabin not in that zone, tough. Will this happen ? no. Resort industry too strong.

MN allows NRs to apply for bear and turkey licenses even though they are quotas and many MN residents are denied each fall.

Now I agree that something needs to be done in ND, Especially on the eastern side of ND where the resident population is so strong. What ? I do not know yet and it really will not be my decision - will it.

[ This Message was edited by: prairie hunter on 2002-04-03 19:26 ]


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

By putting restrictions on NR fishermen in MN you are only really effecting people that live in mostly east of I29.

Prairie hunter,
Where are you hunting? You are one of the lucky people to not have seen any hunting pressure increases. Esspecially by the Canadian border. In the major duck areas of central and eastern ND all that I see are duck hunters. While coming home from Canada last year the highways and gravel roads From Garrison all the way to Jamestown was crowded with duck hunters.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Prairie hunter I sure would like to know were you hunt because every secret waterfoing spot in the state is practically gone. But dont get me wrong there are some still out there.


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

Prairie hunter:

I grew up in ND during my formative years and learned to hunt ducks on sloughs in the central part of the state. I became friends with a couple that lived in this area and have had the wonderful opportunity to have hunted there for 19 consecutive years.

All of my fondest memories of waterfowl hunting occurred in this general. However, last year the hunting pressure was unbelievable. On a scouting trip during the middle of the second week of duck hunting, we counted 58 trucks, 51 had out of state plates.

The problem with these areas that used to have good hunting, is that a particular group will hunt with most likely one very good day of hunting. That one particular shoot will get them to go back to their residence and brag to friends whom they bring the next year. They have one or two good hunts, go back tell another friend. And the cycle repeats. Boom, you have exponential hunting growth.

I don't know how many potholes, large sloughs, waterfowl rest areas, and refuges occur in this particular county, but there is no way that the amount finite amount of resources can handle that type of pressure. In past years, we basically remember barely seeing 10 to 15 trucks in an entire weekend.

If you are in area that really has not seen any increase in hunting pressure, I would keep that area all to myself and not let anyone know where I hunt.

If you are hu


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

The Minnesota DNR, crackheads that they are, has finally realized that duck hunting in MN has gone to hell. In 2000 they did a survey of hunter satisfaction and, somehow, hunter satisfaction in MN is relatively high (someone is relatively high)??? Anyhow, they have devised a 10 year plan that is divided into 2 year planning cycles. This invloves improving the quality of existing wetlands and creating more habitat throughout the state. If you really want to read more about it you can go here In a perfect world, hunting quality in MN will be what it once was and maybe it will keep more hunters within the state.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

You know Prairie Hunter, I have lived in GF for 30 years & tried to go to Minn to camp & fish 25 to 30 yrs ago. But I could never get used to lakes surrounded by cabins & people & the fishing was never very good - unless you go to L of T Ws & That is to extreme for me - I've seen it great & been on it when it was like the perfect storm movie. Now on the other hand, I have always found ND camping & fishing to be wonderful. I grew up fishing Lake Sak when it was rare to see a boat on the lake. & Devils Lake is absolutely amazing and getting better every year.

I don't really see the Minn anology as apples to apples to anything related to ND. I don't think it would help anything to explain why. You may get a few from ND that like it over there. But I'd sacrfice them, to save what we have anyday :grin:


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Living in GF you are a quick drive to Devils Lake. From Cass Cty it was more like 3+ hours. Ashtabula sucked. Lake Sak. was too far away to go very often.

I also grew up fishing ND much more often than MN. Until I turned 30 or so I bet 90% of my fishing time was spent in ND. Fished Lake Sak., the Red (9# walleye & cats), the Sheyenne (northerns & white bass), Brewer, and some smaller trout lakes (that even today I will never say when or where - they were that fantastic). I can only imagine how good the fishing in ND is now on all the unnamed farm ponds that hold perch.

But I believe that you and I were often the exception. While we were going west - just about everyone else in town was crossing the red river into MN. Sit on highway 10 on a Friday evening. The cars pour out of Fargo into western MN by the thousands. I personally know at least 10 people who have retired at the lakes - becoming MN residents in the process. When I did fish a western MN opener 20 years ago as a ND resident, many of the trucks at the boat launch had ND plates.

ND people are buying a lot of lake homes in MN. Many, many more vacation there. Still even more fish there regularly. There is more to do than just fish. Family events, biking , golfing has really taken the premier sell at many resorts in MN.

But this is a sportsman's BB. The fishing in MN can be very good, often it is the little unnamed "ponds" that hold the one pound bluegills. Walleye fishing on the Mississippi is fantastic. The Upper Red Lake is putting out countless big crappies.

I will see if the MN DNR know how many ND residents had a license last year. Of course this will not count anyone under 16.

I would guess the Hustads would be on the top of your sacrafice list ... they appear to spend a lot of time in MN fishing.

[ This Message was edited by: prairie hunter on 2002-04-04 09:29 ]

[ This Message was edited by: prairie hunter on 2002-04-04 09:44 ]


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Prairie Hunter,

The issue is capacity of the resource. If the capacity of MN fisheries were as close to tapped out as the hunting capacity of ND, there would certainly be limits placed on NR anglers in MN. Until then, the two situations really aren't comparable.

M.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

M. I will agree on that in principal. I am not sure that the waterfowl or upland bird resource in ND is near being tapped out -- access yes ... bird populations no way.

But maybe the MN fish resources are tapped out on MN lakes close to Fargo or GF. Sounds like Fetch would agree.

The best fishing spots in MN are often on lakes, rivers, ponds where no development has occurred.

Maybe the MN resort industry did the same thing 40 years ago that is happening in ND now. Maybe MN should correct this situation now.

There is a lot of discussion in MN about the downgrading of the typical MN lake fishery. Numbers and size of fish keep dropping.

I completely agree that ND has a problem - how they solve it remains to be seen. I guess the MN solution was (on average) to live with less fish and less big fish.

[ This Message was edited by: prairie hunter on 2002-04-04 10:09 ]


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

I agree. If Minnesota were getting full of fisherman than a limit should be proposed, but with fishing in ND SD and Canada I don't see that happening. Second it is great to hear the ideas that people have on limits etc. for hunting in ND, but it comes down to the people in ND need to decide what is best for the future of ND. I think MN should be catch and release but I don't push anything because I don't reside there...


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## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

Prairie Hunter,

A lot of those people that have big expensive lake homes in MN don't even bother buying a fishing license. They are just there to vacation. Most of the people I know in the DL and Pelican Lake areas don't even open their cabins until Memorial Day weekend and close it on Labor day because the water isn't warm enough to Jetski and all of the other water sports.

Besides, comparing fishing to hunting is like comparing apples to oranges. You will always have access to your lakes because they are public. You can't lease a lake. If the hunting here is so damn important to you then move here.

By the way, I am still anxious to here where you are hunting not experiencing any pressure.

[ This Message was edited by: Decoyer on 2002-04-04 11:17 ]


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Hey I originally just threw this post out to state that MN duck hunters are coming to ND because they are just following the ducks out of MN.

Most in MN do not want ND to have a drought. MN does need some drier conditions to get their wetlands more attractive to migrating waterfowl.

This post sure got a new thread on this web site going. I have to do something to get you guys to login instead of snow goose hunt.

Decoyer : I will not tell where I hunt ducks, just like I have been able to keep my trout lake a secret. Actually my trout lake was one little spot. I duck hunt in a 50 mile by 100 mile area of ND. Will often drive 45 minutes in the dark to get to our "new" hot spot.

To others : I will say I have driven from both the Missourri river to Valley City & Rugby to Grand Forks in October too. Sure I saw plenty of trucks. I also ducks scattered in many wetlands and both times I also found at least three areas full of mallards. I simply glassed them and moved on - I was homeward bound.

A few tips : while driving look at the horizon - not the ponds and ditches on the side of the road. Hunt more than 5 miles from the nearst ND town. Ask permission to hunt that posted land - they do say yes more often than not and they do not expect any money - just a friendly hello and a THANK YOU.

PH - your ND want-to-be


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## Urho (Apr 20, 2002)

"prairie hunter" - that's an interesting point about East West migration. I wonder if there are recent statistics on the numbers of ducks and geese that nest in one state and then migrate to another before going South?

In recent years, it has been a mystery to hunters and the DNR here where the large numbers of ducks and Canada Geese that nest in many areas of MN in the summer go in late August through September. If that is the case that many are migrating to the Dakotas first, it sounds like a shared resource to me.

_________________
Urho Poikka

[ This Message was edited by: Urho on 2002-04-20 21:32 ]


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Welcome Urho.

Actually that's a very interesting point. While spending May fishing the prairie lakes....I'm completely amazed at the amount of waterfowl flying around, especially drake mallards and pintails. Just before molting season rolls around, the numbers of drakes drops like a rock.

I remember reading somewhere that a lot of the pintails migrate to the south, mallards to the north. OldHunter, I remember discussing this with you a few months back. Do you remember which article I'm quoting???


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

Urho:

I shot my first banded drake mallard this past fall in No.Dak. I was very interested to learn that the bird was banded in Wisconsin in April of 2001 and I shot it in October in the middle of the state. The USGS Patuxtent Bird Observatory website has excellent background on all of the banding programs. It does provide some usable information, if you are interested.

[ This Message was edited by: bioman on 2002-04-22 09:49 ]


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I've shot two banded mallards - one came from near Theif River Falls the other from Manitoba - So your theroy is 1/2 right by me :roll:


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Chris You are refering to a DU article of about 8 mo. ago. Right now the cauteau is full of pintails. the mating flights are amazing. They fly in very tight formation. They pull their wings and heads in and fly in a compact style ,flying very low. It is usally about 5 drakes and 1 hen.They are great to watch. Anyway back to your question. Most of the drake pintails will leave in about July. I believe even the drakes that have mated leave. They go north into Canada.I believe most of them molt there. It used to drive me nuts trying to figure out where they went. When it is time to head south many of them are to the west of the central flyway. Mallards may go north also but it is not so dramatic. 
If they banded skunks I'd have you all beat! good luck


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