# Hoeven does the right thing



## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Posted on Wed, Jul. 30, 2003

Hoeven OKs plan to limit out-of-state hunters

BISMARCK - Gov. John Hoeven has approved a plan for regulating out-of-state duck hunters, which limits them to seven days in some prime hunting areas.

The proposal splits the state into three zones. Visiting hunters may spend a maximum of seven days in either of the first two zones. They are barred from going from one to the other. Out-of-state hunters may spend 14 days hunting in Zone 3 or move freely from one of the two smaller zones into Zone 3.

The state Game and Fish Department plans to open duck hunting to resident hunters only from Sept. 27 to Oct. 3 if the federal Fish and Wildlife Service assents to an early opener.

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Associated Press

Congratulations to Governor Hoven and his team for doing what the legislature inteded be done. While the 2 limited in time zones are unfavorable to some, it is an excellent compromise to a very difficult issue.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

This is no compromise - it is a cop out. It gives the appearance that "something" is being done, when in fact little, if any, will get accomplished. Relief in the targeted areas, if any (some think pressure will be worse as people will be drawn to these areas) will be temporary. Other heavy use areas will continue to get worse. This is a "plan" in words only - not substance. The path towards Texas continues......


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## NDJ (Jun 11, 2002)

I like the res only week...hope it the feds let it run...


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

He basically did nothing.This is a step backwards.He won't get my vote next time.


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

My only hope is that this plan backfires and the masses stay away from Zones 1 and 2. I believe the word is getting out slowly about the DL area, and as attested to on this site, the most outspoken in their ranks sure haven't been supportive of the resident hunter. My other hope/dream is to see North Dakota sportsman's groups at the airport handing out flyers with advice on how to freelance hunt in the State with the meat of the message to say avoid using a G/O at all costs.

I am highly confident that the commercial forces and their bedfellows (e.g., tourism) will be set up with a booth pimping Hoeven's new plan.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't think the G/O in zones 1 or 2 are real thrilled about this either.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

We shall see Ken what will happen. I fear that unless restriction are put in place and a lottery with out a guarentte to G/O this will just continue to escalate and increase.

To many people have left the land and absintee ownership allows for them to continue to gain more acres. I hope that we can find that common thread that will bind both upland, deer and waterfowl hunters together so that it resinates loud and clear what needs to be done.

I will be filming some of my hunts this fall so that I can show others in the future what we once had.


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## hoosier dhr (Jul 24, 2003)

Does anyone know if there will be a limit on NR licenses? I think it was 30,000 last year! ??


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

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## Miller (Mar 2, 2002)

Do I agree with the decision, no. Am I upset, yes. Not because we didn't get what was needed to help the state, but because we have a spineless Governor. All the time spent by so many people, and it was over before it started. Remember this the next election. We need a Governor who doesn't think he's a game biologist.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I agree Ron...but I think the G/O in zones 1 and 2 look at this as a limitation on them.Only hunt in zones 1 or 2 and only for 7 of the 14 days.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Ken the average days are less than 4 for a couple guides I know in that area for waterfowl and upland both. I do not know if this is what others have for an average. Neither of them think the zones will affect them mcuh except for those that are leasing land along the borders between 1-2
because zone 3 can be hunted all 14 days even if you chose 1-2.

I could see them trying to increase acreage so that they could have more land along the outside of the zones. Gonna do some driving and looking this weekend to see how much more has been gobbled up.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Econ, Since you seem to portray yourself as an expert on the subject, try to answer a question. If the Metro Dome holds 50,000, the people in charge sell 75,000 tickets to an event, where do they put the other 25,000? If you think that that is an unlikely scenario, you need to come back from Fantasy Land and take off the rose colored glasses! oke:


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

HUNTER FROM LEEDS,

Thanks for the compliment on being an expert, even though I have never proclaimed to be one and still do not, it is refreshing that someone of your intelligence thinks I am an expert. ( What do you think I am an expert on?)

To try and answer your metaphor, first explain to me why anyone would sell 75,000 tickets to a 50,000 event? Seems kind of ignorant doesn't it? The only fantasy land invasion is in your mind, as I see it. And, I do not have rose colored glasses, they are plain lenses so I can see perfectly clear!!!!!!!!!!

Have a great day, HUNTER from LEEDS not Devils Lake.


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## jbaincfl (Feb 5, 2003)

I do not like the new zones. My neighbor and about 5 of us have been coming to the Kulm area for 13 years and now we can only come once a year. My neighbor is from Jud, so we have family land we hunt every year. We rarely see another hunter north and west of Kulm. Isn't the bigger problems around DL and Oakes?


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

J, there are lots of "problem areas" around the state, including the two you've mentioned that are not "zoned" under this proposal. This is only one of the defects with this "plan."

From time to time we hear comments like yours about areas where not many hunters are seen or shots heard during certain times. Part of this I think can be chalked up to "relativity." If you're used to hunting in states/areas with more-limited waterfowling opportunities and a higher number of people seeking those opportunities, words like "crowded", "pressure" or "quality hunting" can have different meanings.

More importantly, the value of times or areas of that do see less pressure have been under-rated or ignored in these debates. It's okay if the birds don't get hammered day after day once in a while - that's what will keep them here rather than send them south 100-200 miles where they definitely encounter less pressure. Some unmolested birds or less than extremely-utilized areas/times aren't a problem or lost opportunity, they're what will, on the whole, make for a longer and better season and seasons for all - hunters and the tourism industry.

With the trends of the past few years and no caps this year, the times/areas the birds get any rest are quickly evaporating. This will have consequences for all.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

jbainclf,

I'll have to say that I've hunted around Kulm for 35+years and have seen a dramatic increase in the amount of residents and NRs in the area. I feel for you guys, somewhat, but there are many areas in zone 3 that are just as good and many that I know of that are much better that anything in either of the two restricted zones. You might find a new area your second weekend that you never hunted before. I have in the last couple of years.

Honestly now, could the reason you rarely see another hunter be because you hunt the same families land. Visist the Kulm, Edgeley, Wishek, Ashley, Jamestown, Lamoure motels and you'll see how many out of state plates there are on a weekly basis. Believe me, someone is hunting that area, maybe not the land you are on, every week during the season. As a non-resident you only see what's happening on the weeks you are here....the ducks just are not getting a rest like they used to before the big upswing in hunter numbers, both NR and resident. 15 years ago the ducks were around that area throughout most of the season, now the local ducks leave after a couple of weeks of non-stop shooting.

Good Luck on finding a second weekend spot...if you're wondering which direction to head let me know...maybe I can point you in a new direction.


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## hansonni (Aug 19, 2002)

I don't know much about these "zones," so I have a question regarding them. I will be NR hunter this fall, what exactly will these zones limit me as a NR hunter. I would like to be able to make a 5 day trip, hunt some of the areas around Michigan and then visit a farmer friend around the Minot area, will these zones restrict me from being able to do this?! I don't know??!! Thanks


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## H2OfowlND (Feb 10, 2003)

WOW!! ECON you are UNBELIEVABLE!!! You actually answered the question you were asked without even knowing!!

Why would anyone sell 75,000 tix to a 50,000 seat event??

Why would anyone sell unlimited licenses for a resource/state that can't handle it??

Enough said!!

H2OfowlND


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

H2OfowlND,

No, you are unbelievable, we DO NOT have any problems hadling the current amount of hunters in our area. YOU fell into my trap. The stadium numbers can be quantified and exacted where your precived notions can not.

Nice try and thanks for taking the bait.

Never enough said!!!!!!!!!!!

Econ


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Econ,
If his notions cannot be quantified how can you say that yours can.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Econ, there are no "problems" in your area if, and only if, you view all of these issues from the perspective that each camo-clad soul is a customer. I've hunted your area for 10 consecutive years, and if you view the pressure, crowding, commercialization and the general downward spiral of the quality of hunting in your area as a "problem", you've got it in spades! What used to be 6-8 days I'd spend in your area each fall has become to 2-3. If not for the residents only duck opener and the traditions of spending time with some very wonderful locals, it would be 0 - that's how bad it's gotten. Manage it for the long-term benefit of all, or burn it out for maximum short-term return of some?


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Gg,

I did not say mine or his could be quantified. That is why there is no problem with hunting in ND. WE are a big state and have lots of room for many. No one needs to be excluded.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Econ, Texas is a much bigger state. Meaningful hunting in Texas for anyone other than the most wealthy is a thing of the past. We're right behind.....


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

Econ, Are you a biologist or something?? Do you remember during the 2048 stuff, when the game and fish recommended the cap? 
Last time I checked, these were the guys who are best qualified in managing the resource. I think when they say a cap is the best thing for preserving the our sport we should take their word on it. By the way, how much money do you make off the resource?????? :lol:


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Econ,

I'm from DL and see first hand what is going on. You must be in bed with Kyle B.


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

Some of you will not be happy until everything goes your way and nothing else. I agree with econ. Hoeven did the right thing. The reason I say this is that our legislature did not put in caps therefore it is not his place to do so. Further down the road maybe caps are in order. For right now though we can do with the zoning. Don't ***** about how bad things are if they are really ok, things can always get worse, be thankful.

As far as being in bed with Kyle B. I know econ, he is married. I know Kyle B. and he is married. I am pretty sure they would not be in bed together. :lol: :lol:  :beer:

cootkiller


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Coot, ironcially, it is not generally within the legislature's scope of responsibilities to deal with issues like caps/zones or other game management issues other than things like license fees. Under longstanding law (not changed during this session) and tradition, it is the executive's (governor's) responsibility to handle such things. It was only because we knew the governor would be unwilling to meaningfully address this issue that 2048 came to be. In fact, some of the resistance over 2048 and other hunting bills came from legislators who had strong feelings that, philosophically, the governor should deal with these things, not them. The House's two votes on 2048, both times more yes's than no's, but still one measely vote short on the required 48, is no reason for the governor not to exercise the authority he had and has to manage the resource for all.

Kyle, FB and others sent letters to the Governor last year congratulating him on his decision for the 30,000 cap. Why is a cap any less appropriate this year?

The governor did what he felt was the politically most safe thing. He did not do the right, difficult thing, or for that matter anything that truly addresses the problems.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

And everyone needs to tuck this little nugget away, because it will come up in spin later. Last year's 30,000 cap will be apples and oranges to this year's licensed waterfowler numbers. Prior to this past session, you had to buy a small game license to purchase a waterfowl license ($85), and for $10 more, you purchased a waterfowl stamp. With 1358 from this past session, each of the two licenses now cost roughly $85.

There is no solid data, but I've heard estimates ranging from 5% to 15% (Frost's number) of 2002 licensed nonresident waterfowlers who purchased waterfowl tags "just in case" who were really uplanders and actually hunted waterfowl little or none. Let's use 10% just for argument. It can be expected that at a separate $85, uplanders won't any longer do much "just in case'n".

In other words, in 2002 there were only something like 27,000 active nonresident waterfowlers. So, if we sell even only 30,000 nonresident waterfowl licneses this year (I'll take action we go north of that number), the 30,000 this year will still represent roughly a 10 increase in "pressure" over last year's 30,000 cap.

As I said, everyone just tuck that away as you will need to understand it when the increase in nonresident waterfowlers is soft-sold later.


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## tmorrie (Apr 1, 2002)

The last 4 years the non-resident numberd went from something like 20K, 25, 30, 30(capped). My guess is that with the good water conditions in the state this year that it will hit 33-35K.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

That means were going to have a couple of hunting parties that'll get caught with 200 birds.......

Awesome.........

Mav....


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

bump


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

The title of this thread should be "Hoeven cops out". Its a joke.

This wont do much, if anything at all in improving the quality of hunting in some key areas.

More units, lottery system, limited draw for key areas.......'nuff said!

You might not get to go where you want every year, tough.

Now we just need to get the ball rolling on limiting and eliminating OTC non-resident archery tags for antelope and mule deer. Pretty stupid when we have residents waiting 4-8 years for those same animals.

Yup, im just one of those residents that wants it all for myself. :roll:


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## Recurvenator (Aug 6, 2010)

There's very little pressure from NR in my area. Mostly Bismarck/Fargo boys who think they own the whole place. Besides, NR are good for our economy. Waterfowl, being migratory, belong to everyone.


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