# Alabama Buck Pic



## jeffinwestfargo

I just got back from a 2700 mile roundtrip to Alabama where I got this 155 lb. buck. The locals down there thought it was a "big one". How sad is that. You'll notice why I was a little disappointed in the right side of the rack. But my hosts were glad I took it so it wouldn't breed.

While I was there, my hosts took me out to a restaurant where the walls were filled with deer mounts. EVERY single one of them was a 3 x 3. Nothing bigger.

We are very blessed to live here in ND where we have big deer. But more importantly, where we have plenty of open land to hunt on. I went hunting in Alabama with my cousin who is a member of a Hunt Club. Down in the gulf states of FL, Georgia, Mississippi, and Alabama millions of acres of hunting land are owned by the lumber/paper companies. The companies lease the hunting rights to the land for about $20/acre per year. The handful of members of each hunting club (500 to 1000 acres each) split the cost and each pay the annual fee.

I have heard more and more about ND landowners leasing the hunting rights, but I hope we never get to the point that the gulf state hunters are in.


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## stonebroke

Yes, we're pretty spoiled here in the west but we're becoming less and less "spoiled" every year. What you've hinted at is just the tip of the iceberg (belonging to a club in order to hunt, paying for a lease, and all of that). I don't like the direction hunting is headed in this country. It all boils down to the age old debate of who owns the wildlife vs. who owns the land. The landowner does not own the wildlife.....that's been tested in the courts, but they do own the land and control the access. It's a very touchy situation and one that all state F&G departments struggle with daily.

It's going to come to head at some point in time.....not sure if it will be in my lifetime or not, but if things continue in the direction they are going there will not be enough people buying hunting licenses to fund the state Fish & Game Departments.. Lack of access is the #1 reason people quit hunting or don't start.

When an outfitter leases a farm and charges people to hunt, he is basically selling our deer (yours and mine.....they belong to us). In Montana right now if you poach a deer that is trophy size, you have to reimburse the state a hefty fine based on the species (different rates for deer, elk, sheep, etc.). Is it all that much of a stretch for the state to say, "Ok, the outfitter is keeping the people who own the deer from gaining access to their "property".......the outfitter needs to reimburse the people for the deer he is selling to his clients". That sounds a little far fetched, but in the local hunting circles where I live that conversation has been taking place more and more all the time (it's not something I dreamed up....it was brought up at the coffee table a while back).

Our forefathers were wise enough to make sure laws were written to prevent landowners from owning the wildlife......They didn't want America to be like it is in Europe today where only a select few get to hunt at all, but until a solution is found to the access problem, we are in effect going backwards in time.

And I've just touched the tip of the iceberg here.......[/u]


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## Plainsman

> When an outfitter leases a farm and charges people to hunt, he is basically selling our deer (yours and mine.....they belong to us).


Those who make a buck off access will destroy hunting for all but the wealthy. Outfitters are the greatest danger, but landowners who charge access will also lend a hand in the inevitable demise of hunting. These two combined are a much more serious threat than PETA or any other ant-hunting group. 
I am old an will perhaps be gone when the American hunting heritage kicks it's last, but you young guys would perhaps be better served taking up shuffle board. We keep talking about taking a young person hunting, but we are perhaps doing them a disservice by getting them hooked on something they will never be able to afford to do. It's a sad situation, but the farce of selling access (they really sell animals) will destroy hunting, there is no doubt. 
This is a two prong problem. Hunters and landowners have always been allies. When outfitters lease land and post it for pay hunting they essentially destroy the support hunters give agriculture. Most of my family farms, and none charge to hunt or lease their land. Those who do are shooting themselves in the foot. Once the hunter landowner relationship is based on money alone it will disappear. Along with it will disappear support for agriculture. Hunting will be lost, and the family farms are doomed to turn into company owned cooperatives. It's just a matter of time. A short time. 
Some landowners say they are offended by this type of thinking. I am offended that my only value to some is my wallet. It works both ways doesn't it? I do not value landowners simply for their access to wildlife. I would much rather value them on a more personal basis.


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## stonebroke

Plainsman,
Amen....very well put. You are a wise man.

Yes, the all mighty dollar is rearing its ugly head and we are at its mercy. What I find even more disturbing than not having access to the wildlife we all enjoy so much is the deteriorating relationships I see within the smaller communities between the landowners and those who aren't. We all need each other, and that aspect is falling by the wayside. I can understand the farmers and ranchers wanting to make a few extra dollars by leasing their land out and/or charging people to hunt... I don't like it, but I do understand it. What they forget is that those same people who can no longer hunt on their land because they lease it to an outfitter, charge an access fee, etc. are the same people who are on the volunteer fire department, the local volunteer ambulance crews, etc. They're the the guys and gals who coach their kids' little league team, are the boy scout leaders, the 4-H leaders, etc. When they have a barn or house catch on fire, when they get their arm caught in a PTO, etc. who are the ones that come to the rescue? These are just a few examples of community volunteers....the list could go on and on.
Like I said, We need each other. Who are the ones who will be out there shooting the antlerless deer when the herd gets out of control? I can guarantee you it's not the outfitters' clients who have paid several thousand dollars to kill a trophy buck and have gone home. All they do is skim the cream off the top (if you want to call trophy bucks the "cream")... 
One of the most enjoyable parts of hunting to me is stopping in to visit with the landowners when I'm out hunting whether it's to ask permission or to just stop by and visit when I'm done for the day. A lot of the landowners expect it and look forward to it too (although some idiotic hunters who don't have enough sense to pound sand in a rat hole will knock on farmers' doors at 5:00 in the morning or earlier!!!). With more and more landowners leasing out their property, the social aspect between the landowners and the hunters is disappearing.

So, my question is what has created this mess? It didn't use to be this way. I have my thoughts on why things have become the way they are, but this is already too long........


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## TANATA

Poor guys....

I would mount nothing less then a 150 pointer.


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## dogdonthunt

thats alot of points....


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## hogcaller

First off congrats on the buck! :beer:

Secondly, you guys make it sound like it is the landowner's responsibility to make their land accessible to hunters. I'm from Texas and I am a farmer, rancher, and a hunter. I am pretty stingy with my land because I want it in top notch condition for my family to hunt on.....that's it just family. I do not agree with letting others hunt on our ranch because I don't think that they will respect it like my family. We have owned our ranch for around 80 years and I am not going to let just anyone who thinks they have a right to the animals on my land hunt. That's ridiculous! My family and I have busted our rears to make our land some of the best deer hunting in the state and I won't let just anybody that says they are a hunter go out there and hunt.

As for paying to hunt. It sounds like to me ya'll either need to buy some land so you don't have to worry about having a place to hunt in the future or go find a good lease. Why should landowners let people hunt for free? It's their land, they can do what they want with it. Was the land free to them when they bought it? Some people don't understand how much money it takes to run a farm and ranch. Any extra buck that can be made you better take advantage of it. We do not charge anybody to hunt because we don't allow anyone to hunt there. There have been many outfitters hit us up about leasing the land and they were told to jump in the lake. We make enough from our cotton, wheat, and cattle to make a good living without having to lease any land, plus it makes for even better deer hunting for us. I was brought up with the idea that you work hard for what you got and that's what we have done. Just my 2 cents.


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## headshot

> I am not going to let just anyone who thinks they have a right to the animals on my land hunt. That's ridiculous!


I would like to see proof of ownership on all the animals on your ranch.. You are saying that you own the deer. Please do us all a favor and put a game fence around your ranch. If you own the animals they aren't wild.

I have no problem with landowners not letting people hunt, it is their land. Saying you own wild animals cause they live on your property is well.......ridiculous.


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## hogcaller




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## angus 1

Hogcaller , your right on.


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## djleye

I haven't read all the responses here, but suffice it to say that not all, and probably very few people think that someone owes them access to their land. There is, however, a symbiotic relationship. Farmers need people that will vote for farm related bills and hunters need farmers that are good stewards of the land and hopefully aren't farming fencerow to fencerow. Hopefully there are people out there that are helping wildlife along the way. I am not saying that they have to or owe it to anyone to worry about wildlife in their avocation, but I certainly hope that they do. What we don't need is another Texas here in the north country!!! :eyeroll:


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## hogcaller

djleye said:


> What we don't need is another Texas here in the north country!!! :eyeroll:


I believe the same can be said about you, here in Texas. :lol:


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## hogcaller

djleye said:


> Farmers need people that will vote for farm related bills and hunters need farmers that are good stewards of the land and hopefully aren't farming fencerow to fencerow. l:


I guess I don't see this correlation because the voters need farmers to feed them and their families! Anyone with any sense should vote for farm relatd bills.....otherwise they don't eat!


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## headshot

> If you will read I did not say that I owned them. I said that I own the land that they are on. If that animal jumps across the fence on someone else's land I have no say so in the matter. I am saying that I don't think anyone has any rights on my land when that animal is on my land.


True but you are implying you have more rights over a wild animal then any other resident of texas. The point I was trying to make was that just because a deer is on your side of the fence, it doesn't make him yours. If something like CWD breaks out in your area you are gonna find out real fast who owns the deer and who ultimately decides legal access to shoot them. If you choose not to let people on your land that is your "right" The thread is about landowners charging for access and the sorry state of public land access not some guy not letting people hunt. None of my posts are directed at you personally hogcaller just my opinion.


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## stonebroke

Hogcaller wrote, 
"We have owned our ranch for around 80 years"...."As for paying to hunt. It sounds like to me ya'll either need to buy some land so you don't have to worry about having a place to hunt "

Hogcaller, with all due respect not all of us are fortunate enough to have land handed down to us and not all of us have the resources to buy or lease land. You might say, "Well, this is America....go out and find a way to make some money to buy your own ranch", which is true to a certain degree. On the other hand America needs people in all areas of labor from the people in those minimum wage jobs on up. We need waitresses, short order cooks, janitors, truck drivers, ranchhands, etc. Otherwise we'll be flipping our own burgers the next time we go in for a Big Mac.


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## taddy1340

It's difficult to argue between someone from TX and ND.

Hogcaller, have you ever lived anywhere but TX? Do you know the traditions of the north and land access or are you only used to the commercialization style hunting of ND? Just curious to know your background...

Mike


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## hogcaller

I have never lived anywhere but Texas. By the way CWD has been extensively tested for in Texas and not one out of millions have been found. A Texas Parks and Wildlife's biologist called me just this past season to test for it on the buck I got this year. His sentiment was that it will never be a problem in Texas because of our warmer climate. He also said that it is because of the Northern states and Canada that everyone is in such a tither over it. Sort of a panic that spread all the way down here. I guess it's good job security? :lol:

I still never said that I owned any wild animal. BUT, if that animal is on my land I have the most right to that animal as anyone else. That is the point I'm trying to make.

I need to clear one thing up. I do take younguns out to shoot their first deer after my family has gotten theirs. I always had a place to hunt when I was young and I will never deprive a youngster of their first deer. As far as adults go....they better go find somewhere else to hunt because they have more options than the kids and it seems that once you let an adult go once then they think they can go all the time or and the word spreads like wildfire.....and then you get phone call after phone call after phone call! I hope you guys get my point now. :beer:


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## stonebroke

hogcaller said:


> I have never lived anywhere but Texas. By the way CWD has been extensively tested for in Texas and not one out of millions have been found. A Texas Parks and Wildlife's biologist called me just this past season to test for it on the buck I got this year. His sentiment was that it will never be a problem in Texas because of our warmer climate. He also said that it is because of the Northern states and Canada that everyone is in such a tither over it. Sort of a panic that spread all the way down here. I guess it's good job security? :lol:
> 
> I still never said that I owned any wild animal. BUT, if that animal is on my land I have the most right to that animal as anyone else. That is the point I'm trying to make.
> 
> I need to clear one thing up. I do take younguns out to shoot their first deer after my family has gotten theirs. I always had a place to hunt when I was young and I will never deprive a youngster of their first deer. As far as adults go....they better go find somewhere else to hunt because they have more options than the kids and it seems that once you let an adult go once then they think they can go all the time or and the word spreads like wildfire.....and then you get phone call after phone call after phone call! I hope you guys get my point now. :beer:


I get your point loud and clear........... And absolutely, totally disagree with your attitude and philosophy.


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## angus 1

I guess I'm not seeing hogcallers attitude ? I'm seeing his right as a landowner to not give access . It is his property and so be it. The animals on there belong to everyone, but oh well. As a landowner I'm kind of tired of hunters putting the government payments in my face everytime they see a posted sign . I would be willing to give up my government payment that all of you say is paying for my land and so on for a posted ND. Is that a deal you hunters would be willing to make?


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## FlashBoomSplash

I hate chiming in late on topics but I think everyone one has good points. I think it should be illegal for someone to charge someone to hunt on their land and shoot wild game. Because the wild game is public property so a portion of that money should be in everyone's pocket. On the other hand if someone wants to post there land for their own family, go a head. It's your land. But I hate people that post their land and hunt everyone else's land that's just greedy.

Angus 1

I have no problem with my tax dollars paying you to keep good wildlife habitat. I would rather look at the rolling prairie on your land and not hunt it than look at a black dirt field. I just I hope my kids get to experience ND the way it should look.


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## angus 1

The majority of the farm programs don't pay for wildlife habitat. Although the new farm program is directed more toward wildlife and concervation but those areas are being argued .


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## FlashBoomSplash

Actually many of the programs help both the producers and wildlife such as no-till, CSP, CRP, HEL plans, rotational grazing, WRP, water developments, Riparian buffers, and wetland restorations. Just name a few. Some are counter productive like preventive planting but most are pretty good for wildlife and our environment


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## hogcaller

I don't really see a problem with charging people to hunt. I guide hunts on another piece of property that another guy owns. For the most part the hunters are rich guys from Dallas and a few from out of state....even New Mexico. I see no problem with taking money from these rich city slickers and putting it in my pocket. Most of this money goes to feed and supplements for the deer that take up residence on my land. So the money pretty much goes back to making my place a great place to hunt and a sanctuary for deer.


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## FlashBoomSplash

Hogcaller
Well unless its a high fence operation and those deer are from a breeder I want my check. Wild game is owned by every U.S. citizen so start right checks. :lol:


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## angus 1

Where's my check for taking care of everyones deer. REMEMBER I'm a cattle man . Cattlemen don't receive government payments. Start writing the check Flash.


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## FlashBoomSplash

well your missen out call me I will get you paid. And your not complaining about your posted land are you.


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## angus 1

How do I get paid!! Yippy $$$$$ . No I'm not complaining about posted land . I'm really not for a posted ND or the leasing thing either, but the right to own private property and the right to control it does take a front seat with me. Yes the wildlife on there belong to everyone but there is nothing any of us can do about it . The leasing here in ND has just started. I for one have turned down a lot of $$ for my property , just because I don't really agree with it and like to keep it for my kids , but I do not have a problem with someone doing it . After all it is their land. Kind of a political answer there but I don't really know how to explain it.
Last year on another site this issue got out of hand and a lot of hunters and landowners went at it ( not me) But I was at the local cafe one day and the landowners were talking about it , Some knew about the site and some went home and looked it up. The local cenex sold out of posted signs the next day.. It was kind of funny because on that same site this year my home town was mentioned as having posted signs and rude landowners. These guys are all looking at leasing and just plain saying NO . We all must remember that bashing a landowner may have its price.


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## FlashBoomSplash

Thats why I am not mad at anyone who post there land I just dont like the pay to play. The only people that bother me are NRs that post there land and out the other side of there mouth they bash ND and all there residents that is kinda crappy. But if I owned more land I would probably post it. But I would let all the locals hunt it.

Angus

Just a heads up if you probably already know this but you can get paid for rotational grazing. If you have 3-6 cells you can get $2 an acre and if you have 7 or more you can get $4 an acre plus you can get cost share on all your cross fenceing and If you are taking some CRP out you can also get your border fences cost shared. And in all cases you can get your water developments cost shared. I could tell you more but you probably already know.


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## angus 1

I've looked into those programs and they would be real hard to implement in my case, but I sure wish I could cell graze I really think it is a good for the land. Some of those programs come with stipulations that are not landowner friendly , wetlands, haying ect. Some are good prorams . Farm Programs have been compared to the welfare program by some and I want no part of it . I want to say I did it on my own.

Plainsman and I have talked about this for sometime privately of course. I'd like to get him and I together and I'm sure we could come up with some type of access program that would be both hunter and landowner friendly. Him and I are on opposite sides but I have great respect for his opionons and feel he respects mine. We will get no where bashing eachother around. Leasing and the access problem is only going to get worse unless an agreement is made. Plots is a good program but needs to be expanded or possibly another type of private program like it needs to be implmented , Yes it is a form of pay to hunt but it will be a small fee to pay compared to what's coming.


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## hogcaller

I think you are misunderstanding me. Everyone around me does not put out feeders or food plots. For the most part these deer stay on my place because it is the only ready source of food. I'm by no means calling these deer mine. They pretty much stay on my land but if they want to go to my neighbors then my neighbors are more than welcome to shoot. I have no control over that. It is a little crappy because I am the one feeding them and most of the time my neighbors are benefitting from the nutrition that I feed the deer. It doesn't matter to me because I can pretty much get a large buck each year.

I have a question for you ND residents. Are ya'll saying that until recently anyone could just go out on someone else's land and hunt? Do you have to get permission from the state to post as private property? I'm not really following you guys. :-?


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## djleye

If land is not posted you can legally hunt it without asking. Most guys will ask if they can find the land owner though, even though you do not have to. You do not need permission to post your own privately owned land.

Angus, I am not at all saying that anyone owes hunters anything. I am saying that not all hunters are parasites and there is/can be a sybiotic relationship between the landowners and the SLBCRK, or whatever "whats his name" used to call anyone from a town larger than Devils Lake!! I actually respect your views on landowners rights for what it's worth.


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## hogcaller

WOW, i didn't know any states allowed this. I know it is the land of the free but I think that kinda goes a bit too far. No offense! Here, if you are somewhere that isn't your land then you are trespassing......no questions asked. We do put up no trespassing signs but that is more to insure nobody is out there that shouldn't be. I have always liked these laws because they are all that I have known. To be honest with you I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want to have to put signs up all over my property so that everybody and their dog isn't out there hunting and possibly tearing up everything and ruining the hunting for everybody. Wouldn't this also be some sort of safety violation if you have too many hunters on one piece of property?


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## djleye

With the amount of absentee landowners in ND, it would be a nightmare, at times, to find a landowner when you see birds in a field, roosters running for cover, etc. The landscape is probably a bit different here, sometimes no farm places for miles!!!!


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## FlashBoomSplash

Hogcaller

Its actually a great way of doing things everybody here is a neighbor or friend I moved here from another state a while back and I couldn't believe how everybody treated each other here. Its like everyone is family I moved into the country and I was nervous about people being closed off towards me but that wasnt how it was at all.

In just a years time I felt like I lived here all my life. I remember the first big snow I was completely locked in at my house I thought to my self here we are not going anywhere for a couple of days. It wasnt an hour later I had a tractor and a pick with a plow pull into my yard and clean me out it was my neighbors coming to my rescue. I offered money and they refused the only thing they would except was a cup of coffee and some breakfast. Thats just one example of many that I have. Thats why I am ****** that we are starting to become a pay to play state money changes people and I would hate to see ND turn into just another Texas.

Its never been a problem hunting here until the outfitters started moving in. Shoot getting permission to hunt was no problem people would give the shirt off there back well in the short time I have lived here things have changed and I dont think they are going to get any better.

Sorry for rambling. But here is to ND they way it should be. :beer:


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## stonebroke

FlashBoomSplash said:


> Hogcaller
> 
> Its actually a great way of doing things everybody here is a neighbor or friend I moved here from another state a while back and I couldn't believe how everybody treated each other here. Its like everyone is family I moved into the country and I was nervous about people being closed off towards me but that wasnt how it was at all.
> 
> In just a years time I felt like I lived here all my life. I remember the first big snow I was completely locked in at my house I thought to my self here we are not going anywhere for a couple of days. It wasnt an hour later I had a tractor and a pick with a plow pull into my yard and clean me out it was my neighbors coming to my rescue. I offered money and they refused the only thing they would except was a cup of coffee and some breakfast. Thats just one example of many that I have. Thats why I am ticked that we are starting to become a pay to play state money changes people and I would hate to see ND turn into just another Texas.
> 
> Its never been a problem hunting here until the outfitters started moving in. Shoot getting permission to hunt was no problem people would give the shirt off there back well in the short time I have lived here things have changed and I dont think they are going to get any better.
> 
> Sorry for rambling. But here is to ND they way it should be. :beer:


I agree 100%, but I can sort of understand Hogwash's point of view too.....if all you've ever known is posted land, paying to hunt, and all of that, then it would be hard to understand anything else. This debate has been going on for years (who owns the game vs. who controls the land) and will probably be still going on when I'm 6 feet under. No one has figured an answer out yet. If I understand the law correctly, In Alberta it is against the law for a landowner to charge someone to hunt on their land. They can post their land and not allow hunting, but they cannot charge anyone to hunt. If it was that way in the U.S., we'd see a lot of changes.........

In regards to government payments (CRP payments, grain subsidies, etc.) I do have a problem with farmers receiving CRP payments and then leasing the very ground out the taxpayer is paying them to take out of production to an outfitter or charging people to hunt. That is just flat out wrong. If they want to post it, limit the number of hunters, etc. fine....but to charge people to hunt land they are being paid to take out of production is nothing but greed.


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## Bgunit68

I am from upstate NY. I am lucky, my buddy and I have a few farmers that let us hunt along with a few land owners. This one landowner actually does a yearly interview with each of the 5 hunters she lets on her land. There is some state land available but around here you get a lot of irresponsible people on state land. So we try to stick to private land. We are both in our 40's and have been hunting all our lives together so we've made a lot of friends. But, for the younger hunters, it is getting more and more difficult to find land to hunt on. When I was younger my dad and I hunted on this piece of property that was about 500 acres. I went there one year and there were posted signs. Signed, "Norma Millay for the Arts". "Absolutely NO hunting". That stunk. We have made friends with some of the younger hunters in this area. Mostly to keep hunting alive around here. We take them out small game or coyote hunting first. If they can keep up and act responsibly we get them on some of the land we hunt on.


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## hogcaller

[/quote]Hogwash's point of view too.[/quote]

!


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## headshot

Hogcaller I am surprised this thread has stayed this civil. This place is always a little nuts during the off season. Don't take it personal it is just the internet and you gotta admit it was a good burn. :beer: Here in sask we don't need permission to hunt unposted land. I hunt land that is posted up tighter then a frog's azz, it keeps strangers and non-neighbors out of there. If you ask you will get permission though. As long as you respect the land as if it were yours you have no problem. This is where the problem in texas and everywhere else for that matter starts... A total lack of respect by a few individuals always ruins it for us as a whole. IMO hogcaller you are contributing to the problem of land access. Not everyone is gonna ruin your piece of heaven, we may have a differing of opinions but I do respect your right as a landowner to restrict access. Just remember not everyone is as fortunate as you to OWN a large piece of land in prime WT habitat.


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## stonebroke

Hogwash's point of view too.[/quote]

What's up with the name calling? :ticked: 
I think we can have a good debate without that bullcrap![/quote]

Oh my gosh....I can't believe I did that. I apologize, Hogcaller... That was totally unintentional.


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## hogcaller

That's cool stonebroke. I was about to bust out the yo mama jokes! :lol:

In reply to headshot:
I don't know why it didn't get pretty bad in here. I'm a member of several other hunting forums and I have seen people banned for responding poorly on other sites. I've always tried to keep things civil and hear out someone of a different opinion. I guess I have been educated to what you guys do up there. I really don't think Texas is the problem though, it is the unethical hunters that are to blame for our laws and soon to be your laws (by the way it sounds). Unethical hunters are everywhere, not just Texas. It just sucks that we have to do all this to protect our land.

We have people down here that drive on our land and shoot from the road and all kinds of stupid stuff. Wild hog prices are skyrocketting here and people are running around trying to hide their hog traps on private land.......or they turn over feeders.....which happened on our locked up place last week (shot the lock off). I guess I just don't trust anybody when it comes to a very personal treasure, such as our land.

All in all it was a good debate and at least I learned something....maybe you did too. :beer:


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## headshot

> All in all it was a good debate and at least I learned something....maybe you did too.


I didn't learn much. Just reinforced my opinion on pay as you go hunting. Greedy people (landowners and hunters) are ruining hunting and land access. People that charge for land access are pimps and IMO mother earth aint no hoe. Hogcaller what makes you think if people pay to hunt that they are automatically gonna start showing respect, there's probly a reason why they can't gain permission elsewhere. Can't you shoot a trespasser on posted land in Texas? This is what I put on my no trespassing signs: ALL TRESPASSERS WILL BE VIOLATED. Makes em' stop and think before they open the gate.


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## Plainsman

I had not checked this thread for a long time.



> Plainsman and I have talked about this for sometime privately of course. I'd like to get him and I together and I'm sure we could come up with some type of access program that would be both hunter and landowner friendly. Him and I are on opposite sides but I have great respect for his opionons *and feel he respects mine.*


*and feel he respects mine.* You can count on it. There are many landowners that I think the world of. The way I argue some of these points some may have never guessed that. I support the right to post land. If I had some I would post it. You also have the right to choose who gets to hunt it. Because everyone owns wildlife, and taxpayer dollars from everyone supports it I strongly oppose pay hunting. Call it access, call it anything you want, I still oppose it.
What I miss most about days gone by is the welcome people showed each other. Maybe transportation has made the world smaller and caused that loss of unity, and knowledge that we all live a little bit off each other. I find it sad that the days are gone when you bring the donuts and the landowner has the coffee on. He asked about how your work was going, and you asked how his grain prices are. People cared for each other, and hunters supported their landowner hosts, and landowners supported hunters. Now money has entered the picture and we will all be poorer of spirit for it. Money is the new friend, but it will never replace the warm feeling of human friendship.


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## hogcaller

headshot said:


> All in all it was a good debate and at least I learned something....maybe you did too.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't learn much. Just reinforced my opinion on pay as you go hunting. Greedy people (landowners and hunters) are ruining hunting and land access. People that charge for land access are pimps and IMO mother earth aint no hoe. Hogcaller what makes you think if people pay to hunt that they are automatically gonna start showing respect, there's probly a reason why they can't gain permission elsewhere. Can't you shoot a trespasser on posted land in Texas? This is what I put on my no trespassing signs: ALL TRESPASSERS WILL BE VIOLATED. Makes em' stop and think before they open the gate.
Click to expand...

No mine says trespassers will be shot.......survivors will be shot again! :lol:

I guess I'm a pimp because I work for a guiding service?!?!?! Pimpin' ain't easy! :lol: As for my land.....NOBODY hunts except family and a select few kiddos...free of charge!


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## headshot

> NOBODY hunts except family and a select few kiddos...free of charge!


But that is after you shoot "your" deer, right? What are you gonna do if all "your" deer die off? Expect some landowner to let you hunt "his" deer. For some reason you can't see how these land access issues affect us all. Just because you own a chunk of land isn't a reason to turn your back on all hunters. When they anti's have their way and hunting as we know it is gone do you think your piece of land is going to be spared from federal laws? I think you are forgetting that feds ultimately controll your land. We need more hunters to keep this pastime alive, it's kinda hard to hunt when people won't entertain the thought of someone shooting "their" deer.


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## FlashBoomSplash

Plainsman

Thats exactly what I was saying. I agree with you. I am not real worried about hunting around my area I know everyone and access isnt a problem the thing that I worry about is the future of the sport. That goes for all outdoor rec. Hunting is supposed to be a sport that all people can enjoy. It will soon be for only the rich, and there isnt enough of them to fight the anti hunters so hunting will die. Then the people who made everyone pay to hunt will be responsible for the death of hunting.

Personally if it comes to that point I will have to hang it up. I dont want help when I hunt I dont want to be the only one hunting a piece of land it wouldnt be hunting at least not for me.

I have one little thing for everyone to think of. If you're the only guy playing can you earn a trophy? If someone else does all the work and all you do is pull the trigger did you earn that trophy? Every animal I ever harvested I earned. So that Fork horn I have on a plaque hanging in my house is better than any deer you can shoot at some ranch you paid to have access on. Anyone could of shot that 180 class buck you paid for so you might as well get rid of it. And I bet some people are real proud of the 3 pheasants they just bought.

If I offend anyone sorry its just how it is. What does it matter what I say anyway I am just a poor conservationist that lives out in the country with my wife and dogs. But I bet if I paid some of you, you might listen.


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## hogcaller

We do have public land here in Texas for people to hunt. Those that don't own land can simply go there to hunt. It is also free...except for the price of a license. There are many options out there. Most of the hunters that are asking us to hunt usually already have a spot to go.....they just want to go on our place because there is are bigger deer running around our area. It ****** me off when they give me this sob story about how they have nowhere to hunt, when in fact they have a place. These guys are wanting a trophy and are tired of shooting 6 and 8 pt deer. The opportunity is out there....they just hafta get off their lazy butts and find where to go. Last time I checked there are 8 game reserves that allow anyone to hunt in the state of Texas.

As far as the deer dying off that will more than likely never happen. We are backed up to the largest ranch under one fence in the entire US. No hunting is allowed on this ranch and there are plenty of deer running around that place. If we do happen to run out of deer I will do like everybody else and go buy another plot of land or lease from someone else. Leases are cheap. I will never ask another land owner to hunt their land because I don't like to be asked either. I have many plots of land that I can hunt that we own. I have no worries.


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## hogcaller

Flashboomsplash

I see your point. My family and I work hard to bring in deer and make it a great place to hunt. We also reap the benefits by bagging decent bucks. Personally, I have fun putting out feeders and scout cameras and being outdoors. I just don't want to take the chance of letting ANYONE spoil it for me and my family.

It is a bad scenario that only the rich get to hunt certain places. I am by no means any where near rich and I get to enjoy hunting. With that said, as a guide we do donate hunts to needy children (3 a year) and also donate a hunt to the cancer society to a child that is diagnosed with cancer. Even though other pay some of the benefits go to children. IT'S NOT ALL THAT BAD like you guys are making it sound.


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## Bgunit68

Hey Plainsman, I know you've said you were retired now. But, when you worked, may I ask what you did? Just curious.


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## headshot

> I work hard to bring in deer and make it a great place to hunt. We also reap the benefits by bagging decent bucks


So as long as you can hunt who cares about everything elese right? Time to get your head out of the sand. This issue is a lot bigger then your ranch hogcaller, if you want to spend your life in total ingnorance/denial that the future of hunting depends on US so be it. I for one will not watch future hunting oppurtunities go down the drain over greed.


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## hogcaller

headshot said:


> I work hard to bring in deer and make it a great place to hunt. We also reap the benefits by bagging decent bucks
> 
> 
> 
> So as long as you can hunt who cares about everything elese right? Time to get your head out of the sand. This issue is a lot bigger then your ranch hogcaller, if you want to spend your life in total ingnorance/denial that the future of hunting depends on US so be it. I for one will not watch future hunting oppurtunities go down the drain over greed.
Click to expand...

Did you not read my whole post? I just love it when people grab one thing and turn it around. Yes, I am happy for what I have....as far as I'm concerned it is well deserved. If you would have read I wrote that I do my part to bring in new hunters to the sport....like I mentioned earlier by taking youngsters hunting. Lastly, you sound like I should just let everybody hunt so they can enjoy hunting too. That is asking for a train wreck. We have a lot of deer but not for everybody. Do I need to give you a deer management lesson? If everybody shoots deer then will there be anythng left for the future hunting? Um....let's see....no! Like I said...we have a set ammount of MATURE deer that we can shoot so we do. I also said that there are plenty of public lands that anyone can hunt on. Now, tell me again how I and Texas are greedy?


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## bandman

I was just wondering some public hunter numbers compared to the numbers of deer on these reserves? Is there a good number of quality deer taken off these reserves also? It just seems like such a big state for only 8 game reserves.


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## hogcaller

bandman said:


> I was just wondering some public hunter numbers compared to the numbers of deer on these reserves? Is there a good number of quality deer taken off these reserves also? It just seems like such a big state for only 8 game reserves.


They are pretty good sized chunks of land. There are some decent deer taken but not real boone and crockett type bucks. They also offer hog hunting and dove hunting. I have taken one of my ag classes, after I got done teaching hunter's safety, to the Matador game reserve in Matador, TX. They set up targets and let the kids shoot different firearms (muzzleloader, pistols, rifles, and shotguns). After that we took a tour of the ranch and looked at some of wildlife. They did have some pretty big deer mounts in the main lodge that were taken from the place.

Yeah, it's hard to believe someone as greedy as me would take the time to take these kids out and teach them a little bit about outdoors and hunting.....isn't it headshot?


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## Plainsman

Bgunit68 said:


> Hey Plainsman, I know you've said you were retired now. But, when you worked, may I ask what you did? Just curious.


Wildlife Biologist


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## headshot

> Did you not read my whole post?


Yes I did.



> Do I need to give you a deer management lesson?


Go for it. I have yet to see any big deer you shot as an example.



> We have a lot of deer but not for everybody.


OK?

Here is an example of what I am talking about. 5 years ago I drew an Elk tag for the Cypress hills in the SW part of SASK. Real cool area with an abundant pop of elk. Permission was not obtainable, the farmers would literally kick you off their land when you asked. I never bothered again, no big deal, lots of other places to hunt. This august I get 2 tags in the mail that I never applied for. The attached letter basically stated that the elk herd has got to be reduced. Landowners were to accompany hunters while hunting and the hunt was to be for cows in Feb. Right away I head to my environment office to see what was up. The CO told me that the elk have not been getting killed because 6 people owned all the land in the area and they would not allow any hunting(just friends and family) The farmers then claimed a pile of crop damage and insurance on cattle cause the elk ate all the food. The solution SERM came up with was a special hunt for pregnant elk. Seems to be a dumb way to manage a herd. The problem began with slob hunters not respecting the land, it got worse when the farmers denied access and ultimately the animals are paying the price. Is the solution letting just anybody hunt? I don't think so, there are idiots everywhere that will continue to strain hunter/landowner relations. Just hear the next guy out hogcaller, not everyone's a slob. I bet there are literally thousands of guys on this site that would respect your land as much as you do. I haven't met you and never will and I respect it. :beer:


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## hogcaller

headshot said:


> Do I need to give you a deer management lesson?
> 
> 
> 
> Go for it. I have yet to see any big deer you shot as an example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have a lot of deer but not for everybody.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OK?
Click to expand...

These deer were all mature and the youngest was 4.5 years old that were taken from my ranch.....and all shot this season. I have more but don't have them on my computer here at work. They are pics of some of the kids I took this year.......all scoring mature deer.
Here's mine. 150 B&C.









My brothers. The first scored 135 with 19" spread the second was his first buck.

















And my son's FIRST buck.









Last but not least, we don't have a problem with overpopulation of deer here in Texas because everybody works in conjunction with the TPW. We are issued extra management tags that help control the population. This year we did not get any because the numbers are down somewhat.


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## hogcaller

If you would like more examples of some of my guided hunt deer go to this website and take a look. Again, the deer on the website are not from my land.

www.northtexaswhitetailadv.com


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## headshot

Hogcaller I am not doubting that you know how to hunt deer. In the area that I hunt we have been taking all the ugly bucks and skinny does.


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## hogcaller

You are the one that asked for proof and pictures. You see the smiles on the faces of my family members and me? I have pics of youngsters smiling with their deer. To me, that is worth far more than the smile of stranger! :wink:


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## fox412

Welcome to Texas Deer Hunting at it's Finest!
We are a new outfit, but this is something we have been preparing for over three years now. Our goal is to offer great hunting at a reasonable price. Our properties are located about 30min west of Wichita Falls TX. Our properties are some of the best in Texas! (and that is saying a lot!). We offer: Deer, Wild Hog, Coyote, and next year hope to be offering Quail, Dove, and Duck hunting too. All hunts are from tower blinds on feeders, and hunts are always AT LEAST 48hrs apart

Yeah wooooooo hooooooo I killed one over a feeder.

Fair chase at its finest


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## hogcaller

I hunt fair chase on our land! The hunts that I guide are from blinds and I like spot and stalk with clients. My boss puts the younger kids around feeders.


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## headshot

> I hunt fair chase on our land! The hunts that I guide are from blinds and I like spot and stalk with clients. My boss puts the younger kids around feeders.


Sounds more and more like deer shooting. Do you need an AR15 for deer in Texas? Or are the extra rounds need for the infamous "texas heart shot"

I was expecting pics of monster live deer as proof of your management activities. I have lots of pics of deer like you shoot that I let grow up. A 150 deer is not a dream buck for me. The deer we cull are all between 130-160. If it doesn't go book it isn't a trophy here. With that being said I have and will continue to shoot ugly 4x4's and thin antlered deer, but I am patient enough to let immature typical bucks grow up. If the pics of your deer are any indication of what lives on your land I would suggest looking elsewhere for some big ones while the little guys grow up.


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## stonebroke

Interesting thread.......All I can say is that from what I've read here, if this is representative of how what things are like in Texas, the further away from Texas I am, the better.


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## hogcaller




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## hogcaller

headshot said:


> I hunt fair chase on our land! The hunts that I guide are from blinds and I like spot and stalk with clients. My boss puts the younger kids around feeders.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds more and more like deer shooting. Do you need an AR15 for deer in Texas? Or are the extra rounds need for the infamous "texas heart shot"
Click to expand...

Just to let you know. That was a marine that we gave a hunt to because he just got back from Iraq......he was injured and sent back. That was the type of gun he was comfortable with. Maybe you should stop and think before you open your trap.....that man was fighting for your freedom and you just hafta have a smart answer! :******:

Never cease to amaze me! :******: :eyeroll:


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## headshot

Nowhere in this thread was there a personal attack on you. I think you got it all wrong. Funny after I got the tine repaired on my deer and got him officially scored and guess what het went? Alot bigger then you think. You talk like you are the authority on deer hunting, land access and everything else. Grow up, you say get a job and buy your own land. I am willing to bet you got your land through your fathers hard work. I have nothing against texas, why would I ? It is just a chunk of land. Sounds like you are the jealous one, you keep trying to ram the idea down my throat of how great the lone star state is. If everyone there shares your attitude on land access it's no surprise why thousands of hunters from your state look elswhere for quality outdoor experiences. Canned hunting over feeders is about all you have to offer. If you call that guiding so be it. Anyone dumb enough to pay for access doesn't know the difference anyways.


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## headshot

Maybe try a new post hogwash to get your point accross, editing exsisting posts makes you look like you are back-peddling. You talk about me being a smart-***. Is this the pot calling the kettle black? If you want me to shut my trap then come here and do it. I would continue to match wits with you but you are severly out-gunned. You must be some kind of hero with all your self-less acts of kindness. I am still waiting for your lecture on deer management. Amaze us all and say something intelligent.


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## angus 1

Hogcaller , give it up . You and I are landowners and the hunters of ND do not like landowners who excercise their rights as a landowner. incase you didn't notice.


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## hogcaller

I'm done with arguing. It's a bit childish to keep going back and forth arguing with a canuck. Now he challenges me to go up there and shut him up......give me a break! I did delete my posts because I sounded as though I was lowering myself to you. I won't do that!

Angus 1 good point! Pure and simple jealousy! If these guys act like this to their landowners then there is a reason why they are mad at the landowners not letting them hunt anymore.....because they are acting like children! Oh well, enjoy your thread. I'm done chatting with headshot...apparently he is overcompensating his mouth for lack there of in other areas! :lol:

Ya'll have a good day!


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## angus 1

If you look on the topic " Does Leasing land gouge hunters or protect owners" you can see why these land owners posted their property . Nothing was mentioned about making $$$ but just hunters themselves.


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## hogcaller

angus 1 said:


> If you look on the topic " Does Leasing land gouge hunters or protect owners" you can see why these land owners posted their property . Nothing was mentioned about making $$$ but just hunters themselves.


Honestly, I felt that this argument was over a long time ago. I have my opinions and he has his. I made my point and he made his. I'll do with my land what I want and he can go on somebody elses place and do what he wants. If he want to know something about deer management in Texas, all he has to da is ask. I'm not gonna sit here and write a book about management and expect him to agree with everything I say.

I'll look it up angus. Thanks!


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## hogcaller

Where is that at Angus?


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## Plainsman

Well, I have to chime in a little here. Some of my relatives don't post some areas, because they don't like to be pestered for permission. I notice on here that many people are proud of always asking. I don't ask if it isn't posted. Not out of disrespect, but out of respect for their privacy. If I know them and they like to know who is out there of course I will ask, but if it is not posted that tells me they don't want to be bothered. That is one of the reasons I don't want a trespass bill that post all land automatically.

There are bad hunters and bad landowners. We can beat our heads together, but we will never understand each other if we can not admit the truth. I know hunters can admit it, but can landowners? They will say it in private, but would any one of them admit there exists landowners that are not perfect?

hog caller, I understand your reasoning, but I think you are cultivating opposition for landowners by rubbing peoples nose in the dirt. That will come back to bit agriculture support some day. We all see the medical profession gouging people every day. I'll give you an example why socialized medicine, even though I hate it, will be here some day. I went to the dentist and he said I needed a root canal and a crown. He starts and says that I must go to a specialist. $1100 later I go back and get the $900 crown. It still aches and the specialist wants the same amount to do the root canal again on the same tooth. Nearly $3000 on one tooth, I don't think so. Here is what I am getting at, and I would be willing to bet money on it if I was still alive. I would bet in another 100 years you will not see private land ownership. The people on the land now will be working for a salary.

Hunters mistreat a landowner and that landowner gets even by mistreating ten hunters. Then each of those ten hunters get even by mistreating ten landowners each. When everyone forgets they need each other society will end both. Keep poking each other in the eye, and valuing each other only for their money or their access and we will all lose.


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## hogcaller

Plainsman said:


> Well, I have to chime in a little here. Some of my relatives don't post some areas, because they don't like to be pestered for permission. I notice on here that many people are proud of always asking. I don't ask if it isn't posted. Not out of disrespect, but out of respect for their privacy. If I know them and they like to know who is out there of course I will ask, but if it is not posted that tells me they don't want to be bothered. That is one of the reasons I don't want a trespass bill that post all land automatically.
> 
> There are bad hunters and bad landowners. We can beat our heads together, but we will never understand each other if we can not admit the truth. I know hunters can admit it, but can landowners? They will say it in private, but would any one of them admit there exists landowners that are not perfect?
> 
> hog caller, I understand your reasoning, but I think you are cultivating opposition for landowners by rubbing peoples nose in the dirt. That will come back to bit agriculture support some day. We all see the medical profession gouging people every day. I'll give you an example why socialized medicine, even though I hate it, will be here some day. I went to the dentist and he said I needed a root canal and a crown. He starts and says that I must go to a specialist. $1100 later I go back and get the $900 crown. It still aches and the specialist wants the same amount to do the root canal again on the same tooth. Nearly $3000 on one tooth, I don't think so. Here is what I am getting at, and I would be willing to bet money on it if I was still alive. I would bet in another 100 years you will not see private land ownership. The people on the land now will be working for a salary.
> 
> Hunters mistreat a landowner and that landowner gets even by mistreating ten hunters. Then each of those ten hunters get even by mistreating ten landowners each. When everyone forgets they need each other society will end both. Keep poking each other in the eye, and valuing each other only for their money or their access and we will all lose.


Very good points! I can see where that scenario can happen. I don't mean to rub it in everybody's face, but the land that I own makes me money and your food and clothing. I think it is fair that everyone sees that point. Now, with that said, the land that I own makes it possible for my family and I to live. This place is my liverlyhood! I don't like to take the risk of someone coming in and possibly tearing it up or ruining anything out there. I don't know what you guys do for a living but let's just say you are the owner of a store. Are you gonna let everybody come in and walk all over your merchandise? It's pretty much the same with farming and ranching. We are making and selling a product for the general public to use. Let's say that I didn't have deer on my place. I know that there are good, honest people out there that would respect my land and I have said it before that I do take a few kids hunting to get them exposed to the outdoors. I feel that is the least that I can do, but I have to know for sure that my land will be in tip top shape for farming and the only way I can know for sure is if I or my family are the only ones out there. Sorry.

I know where you guys are coming from in regards to paying to hunt. I, personally, have never and will not pay to hunt or fish. I do on the other hand guide paying customers to hunt. Start the stone throwing now.....but hear me out. I think that by guiding some of these less seasoned hunters on hunts, it gives them the opportunity to get out and hunt. I said it earlier that farmers are not the richest people in the world and any income that can be made from the land better be taken advantage of. You say I am a mother nature "pimp"????? HMMMM? Isn't that what a famer is also? We use this land to make a profit....we grow crops from the land.....raise cattle on the land.....I guess I'm a pimp, but no more than anyone else! Everyone makes a profit and benefits from mother earth no matter what you do! I guess the biggest pimps are oil drillers.....or maybe offshore fishermen?


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## Plainsman

hogcaller, I have pounded hard on landowners on this site. I think you are figuring out why. 
None of us blame you for keeping hunting to yourself. Unless of course your a family of four and have 50,000 acres. Our complaint is the landowner that is overrun with deer, doesn't hunt, no member of his family hunts, he wants to be paid for hunting, and then here in North Dakota when the deer get into his winter feed storage he doesn't go to the department of agriculture, he goes to the game and fish and wants them to compensate him. This isn't just an example it happens over and over and over. 
Were not unreasonable, we like you often just get our hackles up when pushed into a corner.


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## boondocks

All I can say is after reading this whole thread is "I have never been so glad to live in ND". Greed will be the downfall of hunters before any animal rights group. Boy have times changed.

I'm grateful ND has the public land that it does.


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## hogcaller

Plainsman said:


> hogcaller, I have pounded hard on landowners on this site. I think you are figuring out why.
> None of us blame you for keeping hunting to yourself. Unless of course your a family of four and have 50,000 acres. Our complaint is the landowner that is overrun with deer, doesn't hunt, no member of his family hunts, he wants to be paid for hunting, and then here in North Dakota when the deer get into his winter feed storage he doesn't go to the department of agriculture, he goes to the game and fish and wants them to compensate him. This isn't just an example it happens over and over and over.
> Were not unreasonable, we like you often just get our hackles up when pushed into a corner.


Well, I am a landowner and a hunter. I think you are right about a landowner having quite a bit of land and it is not hunted. We hunt our land every year.....it keeps the population in check and we can say what is shot and what walks. I'll be the first to tell you that unhunted land can hurt a farmer or rancher worse than hunted, but that is not the case in my situation.

As for some of the negative comments made about Texas......like I said earlier, we have public land to hunt on for free....LOTS of land! Private property is private property, but hunters can hunt for free on that land if they have a signed permission from the landowner. We're not all that bad. Everyone I know hunts or owns firearms. I'm not going out on a limb when I say that we probably have the most gun ownership per household than any other state in the U.S. We love hunting down here and have the abundant resources to hunt.

I appologize for making uneducated comments about the northern states and their practices. I can now see both sides and when it comes down to it they really aren't that far off.


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## Plainsman

Well we are all Americans, and more importantly all hunters. All but the pen them up, tie them up, drug them up, canned shooters that is. Even though the town I live in here in North Dakota would be considered moderate, it would be a small town in Texas. However, I grew up on a farm and am still a country boy at heart. That's why when I visit Texas I like west Texas more than east Texas. I always thought of Texas as wide open, but there are just to many people for me in the east ½. The hill country is nice though, but the further south west I got the better I liked it. I spent a few days on South Padre Island. Great food at the Amberjack restaurant. The Cajun yellow fin tuna was good, but it doesn't beat a ribeye in El Paso.

hog caller, I don't think you're the kind of guy we have problems with. You just started out saying the same thing some of them do. Up here we don't like big money leasing up thousands of acres some of which they never hunt, just to keep everyone else out. Not so much for the sake of hunting, but for the sake of money. Hunting is more important than money to some of us. Most things are not all bad, and I will admit that there is one good thing about some hunting operations. They keep the panty waists that can't do it on their own out of our way.  I can just imagine some of the things a guide must have to put up with. :eyeroll:


----------



## hogcaller

Plainsman said:


> Well we are all Americans, and more importantly all hunters. All but the pen them up, tie them up, drug them up, canned shooters that is. Even though the town I live in here in North Dakota would be considered moderate, it would be a small town in Texas. However, I grew up on a farm and am still a country boy at heart. That's why when I visit Texas I like west Texas more than east Texas. I always thought of Texas as wide open, but there are just to many people for me in the east ½. The hill country is nice though, but the further south west I got the better I liked it. I spent a few days on South Padre Island. Great food at the Amberjack restaurant. The Cajun yellow fin tuna was good, but it doesn't beat a ribeye in El Paso.
> 
> hog caller, I don't think you're the kind of guy we have problems with. You just started out saying the same thing some of them do. Up here we don't like big money leasing up thousands of acres some of which they never hunt, just to keep everyone else out. Not so much for the sake of hunting, but for the sake of money. Hunting is more important than money to some of us. Most things are not all bad, and I will admit that there is one good thing about some hunting operations. They keep the panty waists that can't do it on their own out of our way.  I can just imagine some of the things a guide must have to put up with. :eyeroll:


I like west Texas also...I graduated from Texas Tech with a major in Animal Science and Agricultural Education degrees with a minor in wildlife. It's really wide open out there....but you hafta be able to stand the wind and red dirt in the air! 

I will say that the fella that I guide hunts under isn't getting rich off this place. He's just an average guy like me that is trying to make a few extra bucks for his family while he is in Iraq. I just signed on to help the guy guide while he is away. Like I said earlier, he's not a bad guy. He has donated hunts to cancer survivors and soldiers that have come home from Iraq. I think we had about ten paying hunters last year. It's no real big corporation or money maker by any means. :wink:


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## Blood Trail

jeffinwestfargo said:


> I just got back from a 2700 mile roundtrip to Alabama where I got this 155 lb. buck. The locals down there thought it was a "big one". How sad is that. You'll notice why I was a little disappointed in the right side of the rack. But my hosts were glad I took it so it wouldn't breed.


Hey Jeff why don't you just stay in ND and hunt? I'm sure there's plenty of deer to go around. What's the population of ND anyway, like 12? There's probably more people at the local high school here in Fort Worth than in ND and MO combined...

As a hunter here in Texas, I will say that it is very furstrated trying to hnt here. It has turned into a rich's mans sport here. You either got to know someone or pay a stupid amount of money to hunt. I even saw a guy on craigslist that owned 12 acres and was wanting 2 hunters to lease it at $2500 each!!! :evil: That's just stupid...

It used to be that when the feral hogs started taken over, farmers like HogCaller would almost pay hunters to trap or hunt them. Now they found out that they can turn a buck by charging for a service that is only really beneifiting them. Sucks to be a hunter here. It's a shame because of all the game here and landowners wanna make it a rich man's sport. Dirty bastards.... :******:


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## hogcaller

> It used to be that when the feral hogs started taken over, farmers like HogCaller would almost pay hunters to trap or hunt them. Now they found out that they can turn a buck by charging for a service that is only really beneifiting them. Sucks to be a hunter here. It's a shame because of all the game here and landowners wanna make it a rich man's sport. Dirty bastards.... :ticked:


You are wrong there....I hunt hogs too! I love it that the hogs have gotten to be a problem here.....I also trap!


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## Blood Trail

fox412 said:


> Yeah wooooooo hooooooo I killed one over a feeder.
> 
> Fair chase at its finest


Oh here we go with the feeding debate. Don't be a prick. If your state allowed it you'll be doing it too. What an ***...Yeah, every time I hunt over a feeder, I always kill trophy deer. Yeah, that happens to every hunter in Texas that hunts over feeders. Dude get real

You put a worm on your hook when you fish, right?


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## Blood Trail

stonebroke said:


> Interesting thread.......All I can say is that from what I've read here, if this is representative of how what things are like in Texas, the further away from Texas I am, the better.


Good. Please stay as far as from Texas as possible. Your type won't survive here. We hate liberals.... :beer:


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## hogcaller

You will find out that the Northern states have completely different laws and views on hunting than we do. If you like to kill a pig or two pm me. I'm about 3 hrs from you. I think I've seen you on texasboars.


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## Blood Trail

Well I'll be! I new it was you!!!! I saw the pics of the young gun hunter you posted on texasboars or thb...

PM SENT!!!!! :beer:


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## hogcaller

Just wait until they start chiming in!  You've stirred up the hornets nest now! You are about to get all kinds of OPINIONS on TEXAS! :wink:


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## fox412

Blood trail

I beg to differ with you. In the state of ND it is legal to bait deer. Guess what? I don't do it. I personally don't like it. I don't feel it is particularly sporting. I would much rather spot and stalk deer.

If you think that "shooting" a deer over a feeder is fair chase, fine. I don't feel that it is. I would much rather prefer to "hunt" deer.

This fall I spotted a deer at about 600 yds and stalked to about sixty. It was great. He got dumb in the rut.

By the way classy response with the name calling.

I really don't care if you kill a doe, fawn, or a trophy buck over a feeder. Too me it's not fair chase, nor is it hunting. In my opinion it is shooting. 
I realize that people have different opinions about things. If you think that is fair chase fine. Maybe one day you will learn not everyone is being the terms that you used for having an opinion that differs from yours.

Have a wonderful day.


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## Blood Trail

fox412 said:


> Blood trail
> 
> I beg to differ with you. In the state of ND it is legal to bait deer. Guess what? I don't do it. I personally don't like it. I don't feel it is particularly sporting. I would much rather spot and stalk deer.
> 
> If you think that "shooting" a deer over a feeder is fair chase, fine. I don't feel that it is. I would much rather prefer to "hunt" deer.
> 
> This fall I spotted a deer at about 600 yds and stalked to about sixty. It was great. He got dumb in the rut.
> 
> By the way classy response with the name calling.
> 
> I really don't care if you kill a doe, fawn, or a trophy buck over a feeder. Too me it's not fair chase, nor is it hunting. In my opinion it is shooting.
> I realize that people have different opinions about things. If you think that is fair chase fine. Maybe one day you will learn not everyone is being the terms that you used for having an opinion that differs from yours.
> 
> Have a wonderful day.


See that's what I'm talking about. Hunters like you putting down hunters like me because I choose to hunt over a feeder for one of the many methods I hunt here in Texas. What is wrong with an ethical responsible hunter hunting in a legal way? Boy you need to watch Uncle Ted's show Sprirt of the Wild. Maybe he can talk some sense in ya. Just remember everytime you hunt over or near a food plot, you're hunting baited deer, moron...

Oh yeah, I never said I was classy....Drink up... :beer:


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## ac700wildcat

I see this thread going downhill pretty quick with name calling and such. Prolly something that should be kept to pms. I'm sure this will be locked by the end of the day.

I see both points being made here, and to each his own.


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## fox412

Thanks for the proof that you are the type of person that I thought you where after reading your original post.


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## hogcaller

fox412 said:


> Thanks for the proof that you are the type of person that I thought you where after reading your original post.


I believe it was you who started with the trash talk. I know it was a long time ago but you were the one making fun of the outfitter that I work for. You are entitled to your own opinion and I respect that but I won't let the bs coming from your keyboard detur my opinion on hunting, because it IS ETHICAL and LEGAL. Just because you spot and stalk doesn't make you a better hunter. I have seen some of the best hunters in the world hunt from food plots and stands. Don't run down another ethical hunter. You are one of many that are dividing hunters as a group. That will kill hunting in the long run more than land owners! Mark my words! 8)


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## FlashBoomSplash

Hogcaller

Dont lump yourself in with Blood Trailer. We had a fun respectable debate at the start of this thread. Dont get rapped up in the name calling. As of rate now I consider you a good guy and I would invite you to hunt with me anytime. I have no problem with people defending their views on life but when the name calling starts it shows that your backed into a corner with no place to go and you lost the debate.


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## hogcaller

FlashBoomSplash said:


> Hogcaller
> 
> Dont lump yourself in with Blood Trailer. We had a fun respectable debate at the start of this thread. Dont get rapped up in the name calling. As of rate now I consider you a good guy and I would invite you to hunt with me anytime. I have no problem with people defending their views on life but when the name calling starts it shows that your backed into a corner with no place to go and you lost the debate.


I didn't do any name calling. 8)


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## Plainsman

Play nice guys.

Some types of hunting take more skill, some require more patience. Some days I have more skill, some days I have more patience. I seen a shirt a few years ago that I really liked. It sort of applies here. Two buzzards are sitting in a tree and one says to the other patience my ***, I'm going to kill something.


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## FlashBoomSplash

I know you didnt I just saw you siding with BT and I didnt want you to get sucked into it. I like debating and listening to others views I hope we can do it again in the future. :beer:


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## fox412

You know I never said it was illegal. I said that to me personally it wasn't fair chase.

I don't know if there is anyone who can debate in an intelligent way that will make me feel that it is.

Lets take a scenario:
Man A is a wealthy man. Said man owns a rifle and wants to "hunt a deer" Man shoots his rifle maybe once or twice a year and at 100 yards he can put a group in a pie pan. Said man calls outfitter and procures a hunt. Said outfitter drives man A to 100 yds of a blind where he sets up. 100 yds from the blind is a feeder. Deer come to said feeder everyday at 5:00pm or so. 5 pm rolls around and the deer come to feed(they are somewhat creatures of habit). Man A shoots deer.

Now don't act like this does not happen. Don't give me the little kid, disabled person talk. I sit and watch this happen over and over on television shows and read where outfitters advertise that they do this. Your (hogcaller) boss being one of them.

Now I am not saying that everyone in Texas hunts this way. I don't care if the outfitter is from TX, ND, or Timbucktoo. I personally don't know how man A can be caller a hunter. I know he didn't break any laws. I would rather go home totally empty handed than to harvest a deer in this fashion.

By the way I never mentioned that I was a better hunter than anyone. Just that I have an opinion on this subject.


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## Blood Trail

Just like that huh? Everytime that feeder goes off, in comes the deer and hogs, huh? Boy, I'd wish you tell them that!  If that was the case, my I'd be up to my ears in backstrap! BTW, I've no of no one to include never read or saw on any problem, anybody killing a trophy (160+) deer at a feeder. And I challenge you to find one. They know better...

BTW, since I'm an avid bowhunter, I don't think that sniping a deer with a rifle at a couple hundred yards is hunting. Where's the challenge in that? I mean, I gotta totally scent free, extremely camo'd, and super quite when I hunt over my FEEDER and still get busted. But I've seen my in-laws from WI go out in the field, smoking a cigerette, sweaty just coming home from work, listneing to an iPod and pop a deer from 2 hundred yards away. Where's the hunt in that? TO each his own, right? Cheers! :beer:


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## sonic

It looks to me that in a short amount of time, Hunting in this country will be totally ruined In the way that I grew up. I understand everyones point on both sides, But being a working guy with no Land of my own, and no one handing me the Farm, I'm finding it harder and harder to go hunting with my young GrandSons.

I believe if the owners made it a practice of allowing people to hunt on there land only by permission, or not if they don,t mind,

they could regulate it themselves and know who's coming and going and not have to worry about the worries they might have.

I see a trend coming that will hurt all hunters not owning there own land, and that is a shame. Another thing destroyed , Not Good-


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## WTFanatic

While most mature bucks will be in the 120-130" range, there are some pretty nice bucks taken every year. Here are a few from our club in North Alabama - all from this past season.














































Another plus is a 3 and a half month archery season, a 2 and a half month rifle season (which happens during the rut) and a 3 buck limit.


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## Blood Trail

Very nice!


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## USAlx50

Nice bama bucks!

I grew up in the minneapolis metro area and am still blown away by the hospitality and kindness of ND landowners. I hope to god that we can maintain the opportunities for freelance hunters here. I respect landowners decision to not allow me on their land, and never expect anything from them. I think people with the attitude that we deserve to be allowed access are part of the problem. Who knows, maybe I have to much faith in humanity. I'm mainly a waterfowl hunter though, so things may be quite different on access for deer. I do shoot deer in ND each year though and have no problems with access because of friendships I have developed.


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