# How much for a good gundog?



## fozzer (Oct 14, 2006)

Why should you think about spending big money when you just want another well trained hunting dog ?

can you get great dog for less money, one that is not a pedigree or is the buyer just taking a gamble?


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## ryanps18 (Jun 23, 2006)

I guess its just personal preference. I would say the odds are better if you buy from a good breeder, and a good breeder will probably charge more than Joe down the street. However it takes a lot of money to start and maintain a good breeding stock so they are going to require more for thier pups.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

It could never be accurately said that you can not obtain a good dog on a small budget. However, I have heard it said repeatedly, by folks who know, that once you buy a good dog from a reputable breeder, you will never go the discount route again.
My own experience seems to bear this out. The dog that I spent the most on, is the most biddable, trainable companion I have ever had. She hunts hard, consistantly and is the true family favorite. 
Her kennelmate, on the other hand, is the hardest hunting dog I have ever seen. While she is a good companion as well, her aggressive tendencies make her harder to hunt, and live with. I like her a lot, and put up with her faults gladly, due to her drive and ability. She was free, the product of an accidental breeding between two highly pedigreed parents, a E. Springer and an E. Cocker.
A good dog from a reputable breeder will approach the $1000 mark these days. Some less, and some more. Many breeders offer a buy-back guarantee, if the dog doesn't at least display the desire and ability potential their line is known for. Most offer a health guarantee, that covers genetic anomalies consistant to the breed in question.
The initial cost of a good pup will eventually pale, when compared to the cost of food, supplements, gear and veterinary care over the dog's lifetime. 
It's a personal decision. When offered a discount price on a pup from a litter where you know the parents as good hunters and companions, it could be a tough call. Buying with your heart is easy, but might not be the best idea. Hedging your bet by purchasing from a reputable breeder could give you a leg up on the eventual development of a lifetime hunting companion. 
Don't just flip a coin, but consider all of your options. Take the time to look around, talk to folks, and view different dogs, in the field if possible. You'll never regret the time spent doing research.
Burl


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

I ran across this ad earlier today, I know I would never spend $3500 on a pup but those litters are out there and there are a handful of people willing to spend that kind of money on a pup.

We have 1 Black male (Carrying Chocolate and possibly yellow) from SHR Trinity's Sassy Senorita of Riverwood X The all time high point Open Pointed Chocolate Lab CFC CAFC Pachanga Magnum Force. $3500. Pups were born Oct. 23, 2007. AKC Litter # SR468358 - Both parents are registered in the AKC, CKC & UKC, pup is eligible for registration in all three registries.

Magnum passed away in 2000 and we are thrilled that Sassy was picked to be the mother of his pups. Magnum's owner is taking the first two picks for himself as stud fee. This is the first breeding of Magnum in many years, this is a rare opportunity to have a 1st generation Magnum Pup. Magnum is the sire of the only choc female FC AFC, FC AFC Gator Pts Sweet Potatoe Pie. 1 chocolate/possibly yellow factored black male available out of 6 now.
*Magnum's highlights include
• 36 Junior points (6 first placing) at 15 months of age. 
• Obtained both Open All-Age Titles at 24 months of age. 
• Acquired 28 All-Age Points at 27 months of age. 
• 115-plus All-Age Points in limited trialing. 
• Producer of AKC/CKC field champions, AKC/CKC/NAHRA/UKC Master Hunters and hunting retriever champions plus show champions. 
• 100% amateur trained and handled without the use of electronic collar, attesting to tremendous natural ability. 
• Phenomenal ability to mark birds and run straight lines. 
• When not running field trials, Magnum was an incredible bird-hunter and a great companion. 
• OFA good, eyes CERF, 90 lbs. 
• Magnum was an intense competitor with the genetics to carry it on.

Dam is Sassy, Sassy's Sire is FC AFC High Tech CEO (Gates) - Gates was a Finalist in the '03 & '05 National Open and qualified for the National Open in '01, 03, 04 & 05 and the National Amateur in '03 ,'04 & '05. Gates was injured and did not compete in most of 2002, his injury was so extensive that most people wondered if he would ever compete again. He not only has come back to style but also has surpassed his previous performance. Gates is the product of the breeding of two Hall of Fame Retrievers, both of whom are NAFC titled. Sire is 2XNAFC 2XCNAFC FC AFC Ebonstar Lean Mac WCI HoF and Dam is NAFC FC Hattie McBunn HoF. A List of Littermates for Gates would include 4 Field Champion - Amateur Field Champion Labs and 1 Field Champion, 1 ***** that was Qualified All-Age and died at an early age of accidental cause, all of whom are great dogs. They are: FC AFC Tiger McBunn, FC AFC Dr. Feelgood VI, FC AFC Whitie IV, FC AFC M and M's Buns of Steel & FC Seven Come Eleven V. For more information about Sassy's Sire please go to http://www.hightech-ceo.com Sassy's dam is Sommit Sweet Dancing Dolly JH (Dolly). Dolly is the daughter of the only Chocolate National Field Champion - NFC AFC FC Storm's Riptide Star (Rascal) and Sommit Sweet Smilla Success MH - 5 Titled Siblings (2XNAFC 2XCNAFC FC Ebonstar Lean Mac & FC AFC Carrolls Black Velvet) 5 Titled Siblings include FC AFC Bayou Bend's Ebonstar Peg, FC AFC Volwood's Mollie, FC Charlot's Black Lightning, FC Tootaloo Trudy & CFC Waterborn's Queen Of the Nile. Hips LR-152434E24F-PI, Elbows Normal LR-EL27307F24-PI, Patella Normal LR-PA150/24F/P-PI, Cardiac Normal LR-CA1692/24F/P-PI, Thyroid Normal LR-TH186/24F-PI, CERF LR-39178, Genetically Cleared of Carrying Progressive Retinal Atrophy Optigen Accession #: 05-7526 and Central Nuclear Myopathy LR-CNM05-129-F-PIV + DNA Profile V357997 Sassy is Dam of 10th youngest Choc lab to ever get his HR title at 10 months 2 days old and his brother with SHR title and 2 passes on Senior Hunter at 11 months.

These prices vary of course but from what I have seen they are pretty consistant, with labs.

Field trial breedings

1.FC/AFC sire bred to an untitled *****--- $600.00 to $800.00
2.FC/AFC sire bred to a MH/QAA *****--- $ 1000.00 to $1500.00
3.FC/AFC sire bred to FC or AFC *****--- $2500. and up

It seems most good gundog breedings are in that $400.00 range if they are cheaper than that I would have to ask "why"

You get what you pay for and the cost of the puppy is by far the least expensive part of the overall cost of the dog.

__________________


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## bholtan (Aug 10, 2007)

> Why should you think about spending big money when you just want another well trained hunting dog ?
> 
> can you get great dog for less money, one that is not a pedigree or is the buyer just taking a gamble?


Are you talking about a puppy or an older dog? What would you consider big money?


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## cedarsedge (Sep 21, 2006)

To do all the health clearances the right way it will cost the breeder alot with OFA, CNM ,EIC, and CERF testing. If none of these are done on a puppy I wouldn't even consider buying a pup from this person.

It all come down to you get what you pay for in the end. The price of the purchase will be the cheapest part of owning a good dog

Dan


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## HNTFSH (Jan 14, 2008)

cedarsedge said:


> To do all the health clearances the right way it will cost the breeder alot with OFA, CNM ,EIC, and CERF testing. If none of these are done on a puppy I wouldn't even consider buying a pup from this person.
> 
> It all come down to you get what you pay for in the end. The price of the purchase will be the cheapest part of owning a good dog
> 
> Dan


Ditto. No question about it.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

BROWNDOG said:


> I ran across this ad earlier today, I know I would never spend $3500 on a pup but those litters are out there and there are a handful of people willing to spend that kind of money on a pup.
> 
> Field trial breedings
> 
> ...


Why do you think the price was so high on those pups? Because the stud was that successful as a choc and has limited semen left? Doesn't even sound like the pups are chocs...

Remmy was $350 from a breeder recomended on this site. He is quirky, had some issues but were worked out enough to be a solid gun dog. I love the guy dearly but my next purchase will be much more thought out. So to the original question, yes it is a safe and smart decision to toss a little more coin for a well bred dog.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Its breed dependent

there is no doubt in my mind your best dog per dollar available is a English pointer, fantastic hunters can be had down here for 3-400 bucks sometimes much less. I am talking absolutely great hunting lines.

On the other hand dogs like english cockers and french britts will command high dollars because of limited breedings of good lines and just limited numers of dogs period.

this comment is not meant to disparage any breed I like most of them and both of the ones I mention above but there are litters of EP's bred that will outhunt even the best french brits with pups for less than half the price.

Gsps are somewhere in the middle again because of the sheer numbers of very good dogs being bred, excellent lines of GSPs can be had for $500.00 if you do a little investigation.

My 2 cents :beer:

EPs are not a the best choice for the weather you guys have, I was up there the last week and mine got cold way quicker than my shorthairs but it was pretty darn cold.
this is my young male elhew guardrail cross he handled the cold very well, he is watching about 150 pheasants flush out of a slough in this picture, I had the same dumb expession on my face 










this is my big DK hes a handful but really came on hes a methodical pheasnt pointing machine but at almost 90lbs hes twice the size of the Eps I own and lots different than any GSP I've owned in the past, most of my GSPs are from big running FT lines









this is my female EP shes beaver meadow benjamin dog a litter mate of the current winningest dogs in the cover dog field trail circuit ( grouse dog trials run in the woods) she got cold quickly but its was zero out.









All three of these dogs were given to me for free, the Eps were not judged good enough to win FTs ( they are both excellent hunters) 
the DK was too much for the guy to handle he has been a challenging dog to own, its taken a year for me to get his head straight, but hes now a real good phez dog.

My point is very very well bred dogs are availble for little money if you look hard


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## fozzer (Oct 14, 2006)

I was talking about pup's for around £400 - £500

I started this thread to gain an insight on this topic so that i could write an article for my website, but you guys do it better, if you want to have your say please follow the link below, like Burl has done.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y (Sep 23, 2004)

I have also been lucky and recieved a couple expensive dogs for free. My latest I got for free because the guy found out about my dog having cancer. He runs trials, and the dog he gave me had a outy belly button. They can't sell these for as much. Does it change his hunting ability? Nope I guess there is a thoery behind it, but I didn't really care.

I would say spilling the change up front is worth it. Then you don't have to drop $5,000 getting it trained, or you spend thousands of hours training it. It just seems like dogs from good lines require way less attention. Yet others require more. It is a toss up as to which ones will do what.


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## bholtan (Aug 10, 2007)

Well I think 400-500 is hardly expensive for a puppy. When you start getting up there is the 700-2000ollar range I would consider that a little steep, in most breeds. I am most familiar with setters and pointers, so when it comes to some other breeds I may be off base.

Bill


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## HNTFSH (Jan 14, 2008)

fozzer said:


> I was talking about pup's for around £400 - £500
> 
> I started this thread to gain an insight on this topic so that i could write an article for my website, but you guys do it better, if you want to have your say please follow the link below, like Burl has done.


Huh?

I understand the question at a high level but as has been said - there are breed specific dynamics to consider as well. A top-notch Golden would run a lot different price tag than a similar Lab, etc.

What is it you're trying to accomplish by folks following the link again? Sorry - I'm thick sometimes. :lol:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

I am only 19 years old and my opinion may not matter, but I have hunted over very expensive dogs and some cheap dogs. But every dog is different in there own way. I'm not trying to knock down the dog breeders but I just cannot see why a hunting dog is worth more then a cow. I think that any dog can be as good as the next IF you send enough time with him/her. I personally dont have a dog right now, but I have trained two dogs. 1 was a black lab that cost $1000 and the other is a lab beagel mix. Both dogs work great in very different situations. No dog is completely better then the other.

That is just my opinion.


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## HNTFSH (Jan 14, 2008)

It seems to me there are 7 kinds of dogs when considering one for hunting (actually more but you get the idea):

* The diluted instinct dog

* The diluted health dog

* The diluted instinct & health dog

* The show dog (instinct a variable)

* The hunting line dog (hard to prove without titles or personal experience without Sire and Dam) but generally less $ (health certs must be valid for consideration)

* The working dog (HT) evidence in pedigree (typically have health validation and demonstrate genetically - a work ethic)

* The Field Trail dog (always have health validation, proven work ethic & drive)

So removing pup 'cost' as a decision point which of the 7 make the safest choice for the hundreds of dollars and hundreds of hours spent training to become a good, and I mean GOOD, hunting dog?

Supply and demand drives price to some extent. But you are ALWAYS buying genetics. The genetics you can prove bring one price and the genetics you cannot prove bring another.

I will betcha that Tom Brady's Mom and Dad aren't pencil neck geektoids that can't fight their way out of a paperbag. Just guessin'.


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## HNTFSH (Jan 14, 2008)

Bobm said:


> Its breed dependent
> 
> there is no doubt in my mind your best dog per dollar available is a English pointer, fantastic hunters can be had down here for 3-400 bucks sometimes much less. I am talking absolutely great hunting lines.
> 
> ...


Bob - nice lookin dogs btw...!


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

blhunter3 said:


> I am only 19 years old and my opinion may not matter, but I have hunted over very expensive dogs and some cheap dogs. But every dog is different in there own way. I'm not trying to knock down the dog breeders but I just cannot see why a hunting dog is worth more then a cow. I think that any dog can be as good as the next IF you send enough time with him/her. I personally dont have a dog right now, but I have trained two dogs. 1 was a black lab that cost $1000 and the other is a lab beagel mix. Both dogs work great in very different situations. No dog is completely better then the other.
> 
> That is just my opinion.


Dogs and cows serve completely different purposes, unless you're big on chinese food.

A friend of mine bought a $100 lab from some farm roughly the same time I picked up my dog with health guarantees, and some titles in the pedigree (nothing special). He spent more on training then I, for a hard to control hyper dog that already had hip/elbow problems at age 2 and now has huge vet bills. The difference in cost is multiplied many times to make his dog more expensive then mine and that dog is still harder to live with then mine.

Sounds like BobM has done well for himself keeping his eyes open. I know BROWNDOG got a good deal on his younger lab as well by keeping his eyes open. So its more breeding then $$ just because a dog is expensive doesn't make it better. Look for a pedigree not a price.


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## DuckBuster (Mar 18, 2003)

Here's my fairly inexperienced .02.

I've got a $500 lab... He's been pretty good, although harder to train and has some severe health issues. Baiscally, I love him to death, but he doesn't get to hunt anymore, for a couple of reasons:

1. He's a hard charging lab out of a FT line. NOT what I should have got for my first dog. I don't want him along when I'm hunting with other guys since he can ruin a hunt. He can hunt with me all he wants.... I like spending time with him, but I don't want him wrecking another guys hunt.

2. He's had epilepsy since he was a pup, and now has cancer at the age of 8. He seems content with being a house dog that is more spoiled than any kid I've ever known.

My next dog is already picked out and I won't be able to pick her up until November.... She is MUCH more expensive, but I've hunted over 3 different dogs out of that kennel and all 3 are fantastic. They're much more calm and trainable. They aren't bred to be the hard charging FT labs....

Time will tell.


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

DuckBuster said:


> Here's my fairly inexperienced .02.
> 
> I've got a $500 lab... He's been pretty good, although harder to train and has some severe health issues. Baiscally, I love him to death, but he doesn't get to hunt anymore, for a couple of reasons:
> 
> ...


Hard charging dogs can be a handfull to train and run at times and may not be for the first time dog owner or trainer and just by there nature I guess would be prone to more injurys. 
I don't believe this type of dog always comes from FT lines, I have trained with some pretty laid back easy going FT dogs as well they just don't look as stylish as the fast dog.

My young dog Bodey is out of FT lines, and I was looking for a dog with ALOT of go and thats exactly what I got and then some. I wasn't looking for a hunting dog at the time, I was looking for a dog that I could have fun on the weekends with and that would give 100% every training session. I got lucky and paid $500 for a $1500.00 dollar dog, I knew who I wanted a puppy out of and happened to be looking at the right time. Even though he is a nut case, he still is very trainable, has a great temperment with people and other dogs, and knows when to turn the swith OFF and be a good house dog after the work is done. There is going to be a repeat of this breeding in March and I'll take another in a heart beat.

Now on the other hand I have a choco female that on paper is nothing but she comes from "POINTING" lines, and I paid much more for her. She I a wonderful hunting dog has never pointed but has retrieved ALOT of birds and is a great house dog/ companion. Has good desire but not CRAZY wich at times makes her easir to train but also harder in some ways. She doesn't like large groups of people so she shuts down at a test or a trial but in a hunting situation she is fine. She's been this way since she was a puppy. Very shy, not aggressive but not very confident either.

Duckbuster,

I'm guessing your looking at a British dog, I train with a couple of Wildrose dogs and they are definatly calmer dogs, expensive, but I wouldn't say easier to train. I looked at a couple of different British breeders and there dogs and wasn't willing to spend that kind of money on a unproven breeding. Brit pups start at $1000.00 and you can get alot more dog from a FT breeding for $1000.00.

Just my opinion and it ain't worth much


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

Another thing to look for if you don't want to go throught the puppy phase and you will also get a chance to see what the dog can do is look for a FT washout. Most of these dogs are around 2 years old have been FF CC and through basics but just can't cut the mustard for a variety of reasons, for FT but will make excellent gun dogs. Most are sold for the price of a well bred puppy.

I train with a guy on a regular basis that sold a 18 monthe old male lab that he had about $3500.00 into for around $1500.00, the dog could mark singles fine and simple doubles but couldn't do a difficult double if his life depended on it, but was running VERY difficult blinds a young age, and was very laid back easy going dog. He was sold as gun dog and has made someone very happy in the field. I my mind this guy got a bargain.

Just something else to think about.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

My 2 cents...

As mentioned do your homework but more importantly set your expectations prior to purchasing(also mentioned). My own experience with dogs started young and they were not what many would consider optimally bred labs but were good dogs.

It is very important to set those expectations because they will impact not only the dog that you ultimately SHOULD choose but also help you better understand the level of commitment that you are willing to put into a dog... because against popular belief an exceptionally bred dog still needs to be trained... and depending upon background they may need more attention than an "Average Lab" because of the specific traits that are being exploited (drive, bidability, stamina, power). Do you have the training experience to match the needs of the animal?

I would recommend to anyone inquiring about how to choose a litter to continue to ask themselves what their ultimate goal for the animal is... a good companion, a good field dog, both... field trial prospect? The answer to these questions will determine the price, acceptable backgrounds and commitment level of the new owner.


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

For me personally. It's more important to have a loyal friend and a good hunting partner (with good manners) than it is to have a fancy piece of paper saying how great my dog is supposed to be.

I've paid a lot for a bad dog and I've paid little to nothing for a great dog. Pedigree guarantees nothing. It may improve your odds, but it guarantees nothing.

When I buy a pup, regardless of price. I spend a lot of time with the parents. It really gives me a chance to see what qualities they have and do not have.


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## HNTFSH (Jan 14, 2008)

northdakotakid said:


> My 2 cents...
> 
> As mentioned do your homework but more importantly set your expectations prior to purchasing(also mentioned). My own experience with dogs started young and they were not what many would consider optimally bred labs but were good dogs.
> 
> ...


Well said. And this is where (within a range) the type of dog you get will determine the price. I assume most guys on a gun dog board will hunt it and hopefully they will train it. By training...I mean developing a truly competent gun dog.

Training would say you can teach control to a high energy dog but you can't teach 'drive' to a subtle dog. The level you are able to acheive (and the ease by which you can do it) are somewhat related to 'drive'.

My guess is the average hunter seeking to train-up a dog would look for a pedigree with a FC/NFC heritage within the last 3-4 generations and fairly JH,SH, MH titles in the immediate line. There are a lot of dogs in this category and it's buyers choice.


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

As said before there is no guarantee. But if you get a dog that has been proven in field trials you have a lot better chance than you do from a back yard breeding. Also you will get better results as far as hips, knees, eyes.

I am not saying that there aren't excellent dogs out there that are from a back yard breeding but I am willing to bet there are a lot of stories of dogs with bad hips and knees because there was nothing done before the breeding to check if those dogs should have been breed. I have seen a lot of labs that meet the breed standard and don't even look like labs.


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## Stormy (Jan 16, 2008)

Just an opinion, but find the breeding you want and don't worry about the price. Whatever you pay up front is a very small down payment on what you'll pay down the road....both in terms of money and time. Whether you pay $300 or $1000, you're going to have the pup for 10 to 15 years, hopefully...and the initial price will be long forgotten. In fact, I know a breeder who won't sell a pup to someone who's first question is "how much"....even though his price is reasonable.

Also, don't limit your search to breeders within a couple hours of your home. Again.....find the breeder with what you want! Both my setters were 10 to 12 hour drives...the trips were fun for my kids and the expense is in the past.

Bottom line: Find the Breeder and Breeding that you like pay the man!

Stormy


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