# Sharpshooters begin destroying elk herd



## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Sharpshooters begin destroying elk herd
By DOUG SMITH, Star Tribune

September 21, 2009

Federal sharpshooters have begun destroying a herd of about 700 elk on a farm in southeastern Minnesota where chronic wasting disease (CWD) was discovered this year.

Sharpshooters with the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Wildlife Services shot elk Friday and Monday on the farm off Hwy. 52 near Pine Island, after the federal agency reached an agreement with the herd's owners concerning compensation and cleanup. A cow elk at Elk Farm LLC -- the largest such farm in the state -- was found to have the disease in January, and the herd has been quarantined since.

The 1,300-acre farm was purchased in 2006 by Tower Investments of Woodland, Calif., and is part of 2,300 acres the firm plans to develop north of Rochester for a bioscience research and manufacturing center called Elk Run. It would include 15 to 25 bioscience companies, as well as offices, shops and homes, officials say.

"This is very sad situation for all of us at Tower Investments," project manager Geoff Griffin said.

"But it's totally out of our control. The good thing is, it does not affect our development."

All of the elk will be killed over the next 10 days or so and tested for the fatal brain disease, then will be disposed of, said Paul Anderson, assistant director of the Minnesota Board of Animal Health. None of the meat can be salvaged for human consumption.

"There's no evidence that it causes disease in people," Anderson said, "but with a known infected herd, we just would not take any risks with humans."

Tower Investments will be compensated for the animals by the Agriculture Department. Federal officials said Monday that they're unsure what the total cost will be.

To prevent the spread of CWD to wild deer, the top couple of inches of topsoil on the farm will be removed and stored behind a fenced area for five years, Anderson said. Tower Investments will pay for that, he said. "Normally, we'd require that fences stay up [on a farm] for five years," Anderson said, "but because of the need to develop that land, they will remove the soil and pile it up behind a fence for five years."

3,000 deer to be tested

The Department of Natural Resources also plans to test 3,000 deer for CWD that are expected to be killed by hunters this fall in southeastern Minnesota. The testing, which will cost more than $200,000, was prompted by the presence of CWD at the Pine Island elk farm and by the proximity of deer in the region to Wisconsin, where wild deer have been infected with CWD, said Ed Boggess, DNR policy section chief. The U.S. Department of Agriculture will pay about $70,000 of the cost, he said.

Though no elk have escaped from the Pine Island farm, Anderson said two wild deer somehow managed to get inside the fenced farm and were destroyed. Since the disease was first found in the state in a captive elk herd in 2002, DNR officials have been concerned that it could spread to Minnesota's approximately 1 million wild deer. There are about 20,000 captive deer and elk in the state, and the disease can be spread through nose-to-nose contact. The infected elk at Pine Island was the sixth captive deer or elk in the state found to have CWD.

The DNR has tested more than 30,000 wild deer, and none has tested positive.

The Pine Island elk farm has been an icon in the area for years, and the elk often were seen by drivers on busy Hwy. 52. The farm was owned by brothers John and Karl Hoehne. Karl Hoehne declined to comment Monday, and John Hoehne couldn't be reached.

Though the long-standing elk farm would have been phased out as development occurred, Griffin, the project manager, said that Tower Investments had intended to keep some elk there, and that that still might happen, even after the herd is destroyed. "We're going to wait five years, just to be safe," he said, and possibly add elk later to some enclosures on the site.

Meanwhile, Griffin said water and sewer lines are being laid at the development and that the state is expected to let bids for a Hwy. 52 interchange there. He said construction of some bioscience buildings should begin next year.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> All of the elk will be killed over the next 10 days or so and tested for the fatal brain disease, then will be disposed of, said Paul Anderson, assistant director of the Minnesota Board of Animal Health. None of the meat can be salvaged for human consumption.


If they test the animals and and they are not infected from CWD why can't they let people eat the perfectly safe and nutritious meat the great elk have provided? :sniper:


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

'Gamefarms'-truly the scourge of the earth in this case.Interesting that we have to pay for it.If I go in business on my farm,a business that has risks on say,toxic waste spills.I assume that risk and if there's a 'spill',I pay for the cleanup.Not the taxpayers.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

buckseye said:


> > All of the elk will be killed over the next 10 days or so and tested for the fatal brain disease, then will be disposed of, said Paul Anderson, assistant director of the Minnesota Board of Animal Health. None of the meat can be salvaged for human consumption.
> 
> 
> If they test the animals and and they are not infected from CWD why can't they let people eat the perfectly safe and nutritious meat the great elk have provided? :sniper:


Because they are using lead bullets and that will give us lead poisioning, duh :roll: :wink:


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

Source:
Jennifer O'Brien
[email protected]
415-476-2557

September 9, 2009

Prions found in feces of deer asymptomatic for chronic wasting disease

Scientists have discovered that deer asymptomatic for a fatal brain condition known as chronic wasting disease excrete the infectious prions that cause the disease in their feces. The finding, they say, suggests a plausible explanation for transmission of the disease among deer and, possibly, elk and moose in the environment.

The study is reported as an advance online paper on September 9, 2009 in the journal "Nature."

While the study reveals that prions are shed in feces of symptomatic deer as well, the discovery that the infected deer shed prions (PREE-ons) in their feces many months before they show clinical symptoms has particularly provocative implications, according to the research team, at University of California, San Francisco and the Colorado Division of Wildlife's Wildlife Research Center.

Deer, elk and moose inadvertently consume feces and soil in the course of their daily grazing. Given this, the team set out to determine whether the animals could develop chronic wasting disease through long-term consumption of contaminated feces. They did so by measuring the amount of prions contained in the feces of orally infected deer up until the time they became symptomatic and then calculated whether prolonged exposure to the concentrations of prions in these feces would be enough to cause the disease.

"Prion levels in feces samples of asymptomatic deer were very low compared to those in the brains of the same deer at the time of death," says the lead author of the study, Erdem Tamguney, PhD, an assistant professor at the Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases, based at UCSF. "However, the total number of prions excreted over time was sufficiently high enough to cause disease in other deer."

The susceptibility of animals to infection, he says, might be increased by the simultaneous ingestion of clay soil, which is thought to enhance the infectivity of prions, possibly by slowing their clearance from the gastrointestinal tract.

"Our findings suggest that prolonged fecal prion excretion by infected deer provides a plausible explanation for the high level of transmission of chronic wasting disease within deer herds, as well as prion transmission among deer and other cervid species. Our work may also explain transmission of scrapie prions among sheep and goats," says senior author and Nobel laureate Stanley B. Prusiner, MD, UCSF professor of neurology and director of the UCSF Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases.

The study did not examine whether chronic wasting disease could be transmitted to humans via exposure to deer feces. To date, transgenic mouse studies have indicated that chronic wasting disease does not transmit to humans, but scientists remain open to the possibility that it could.

"We can only say that prions of chronic wasting disease have not transmitted to mice genetically engineered to carry the normal, healthy form of human prion protein in earlier studies," says Prusiner. "That said, we do not know for sure that deer or elk prions cannot be transmitted to humans."

The prion is an infectious form of the normal prion protein, which has been found in all mammals examined, including humans. The lethal, infectious form induces the normal protein to twist into a malconformation, initiating a disease process that ravages the brain. Prion diseases, seen in cervids, sheep, cows and humans, are also referred to as spongiform encephalopathies. Prusiner won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1997 for the discovery of prions as a new biological principle of infection.

The new study sheds light on a question that has puzzled scientists for a number of years: how chronic wasting disease spreads so widely through herds and species in contrast to bovine spongiform encephalopathy in cattle, in which horizontal transmission between animals is rare.

First detected in a research facility in Colorado in 1967, chronic wasting disease has since been detected in fourteen states in the U.S. and in two Canadian provinces, predominantly in the West, both in the wild and on commercial farms. In wild herds, it can sometimes be found in up to 30 percent of animals; in captivity nearly entire herds can be affected.

Studies have shown that the disease can be transmitted orally - deer experimentally fed infected brain tissue become sick - but the animals are not carnivores, nor cannibalistic. And while prions have been reported in the saliva, blood, muscle, urine and antler velvet of symptomatic animals with late-stage disease, there is little evidence that these sources are responsible for high incidence of the disease within herds.

Epidemiological findings argue that chronic wasting disease spreads efficiently across populations. When healthy deer grazed on pastureland previously used by deer with chronic wasting disease, the healthy deer eventually develop the disease. But there has been no clear mechanism of transmission of prions in this way.

The UCSF scientists teamed up with co-investigators led by Michael Miller, DVM, PhD, of the Colorado Division of Wildlife's Wildlife Research Center, to investigate the issue. Five deer were orally infected with one gram of brain tissue from a deer that had died of chronic wasting disease. Then fecal samples from the animals were collected at five time points - once before they were infected (as a control group), and then post infection at 3-4 months, 9-10 months, 13-14 months and 16-20 months (when animals show symptoms of the disease). Symptoms include inability to hold the head erect, excessive salivation, unsteady gait and poor grooming skills.

The UCSF scientists irradiated the deer feces to kill all bacteria and viruses, and inoculated the fecal material into the brains of mice genetically engineered to over-express the normal, healthy version of the elk prion protein.

An analysis showed that feces collected before infection and at 3-4 months post infection did not transmit the disease to the mice. At all subsequent time points, however, many fecal samples did transmit the disease. Prion infectivity was found in 14 of the 15 samples collected from the five deer as early as 7-11 months before neurological symptoms developed.

To measure the prions in feces, the team conducted a separate experiment in which they correlated the time required for mice to become ill from various prion concentrations in infected elk brain tissue (brain samples were diluted with varying amounts of water). Then they compared this data to the incubation times of the mice inoculated with contaminated feces, determining the amount of infectivity of the samples at different time points. While the number of prions in individual samples was low, the amount that accumulated over a 10-month period was similar to that in brain at the end-stage of the disease.

The findings offer strong evidence, says Prusiner, that prion contamination of forest, shrub-steppe and grassland habitats may be largely responsible for the high incidence of the disease both within and between cervid species and account for geographic spread as deer move between seasonal ranges.

Other co-authors of the study are Lisa L. Wolfe, MS, DVM, and Tracey M. Sirochman, BA, of the Colorado Division of Wildlife, Wildlife Research Center; David V. Glidden, PhD, professor of epidemiology and biostatistics, Christina Palmer, MS, Azucena Lemus, BS, of pathology, and Stephen J. DeArmond, MD, PhD, professor of pathology, all of UCSF.

The study was funded by the Larry L. Hillblom Foundation, the Colorado Division of Wildlife, grants from the U.S. Department of Defense National Prion Research Program and the National Institutes of Health.

UCSF is a leading university dedicated to promoting health worldwide through advanced biomedical research, graduate-level education in the life sciences and health professions, and excellence in patient care.

Related links:

Link to map of CWD
http://www.cwd-info.org/images/CWDmap.gif

Chronic Wasting Disease Alliance
http://www.cwd-info.org/

Prusiner lab - Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases
http://ind.universityofcalifornia.edu/ 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Need more info?

google: prions feces


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

...and the MN DNR becomes the latest state agency to freak out over CWD. :eyeroll:


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

buckseye said:


> If they test the animals and and they are not infected from CWD why can't they let people eat the perfectly safe and nutritious meat the great elk have provided? :sniper:


The tests take a long time. They probably don't want to have to deal with storing all that meat until they can confirm it wasn't infected.

I know a guy from SD who shot an elk and then it was tested for CWD. Six months later, and after all the meat was gone, they informed him it tested positive. 

Unless you're partial to the brain or spinal cord you aren't at risk by eating the meat.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Well, I shot a cow elk last year in SD, and two weeks later they called with the results that it had CWD.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Two weeks is quick!

As much as they say that it isn't a big deal to eat the meat, let's be honest here, how many of you would eat an animal that you know was infected with CWD?

I wouldn't.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

I didn't, they recommended that I throw the meat out even though they say it can't be transferred, which I did, and refunded the price of the tag. I would be curious as to how many Bulls get tested, since you have to send in the head. I would bet not very many.

Part of the reason for the quick turn around was probably low demand on the biologist running the tests at the time. I shot it the first morning of the second season, Dec. 1, and had the head sent in by noon.

Anyways, the tests don't take that long to run if they are set up for it. It will be interesting to see how many actually test positive for it or if they even release the results.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

blhunter3 said:


> buckseye said:
> 
> 
> > > All of the elk will be killed over the next 10 days or so and tested for the fatal brain disease, then will be disposed of, said Paul Anderson, assistant director of the Minnesota Board of Animal Health. None of the meat can be salvaged for human consumption.
> ...


 :lol:


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## MNguy (Sep 23, 2009)

The local paper here in Rochester said they have cooling semis on site that the meat will be stored in for 5-7 days it will take to test. If no CWD is found, the meat will be avialable for consumption. They didnt get specific if it was going to be for sale, or go to some program like feed the hungry or something. This herd has been an icon in our area for many years/ Its only 6 miles north of Rochester on the way to Minneapolis/St Paul along hwy 52. Its kind of sad to see them go.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Also this was not a High Fence hunting situation.....but an elk farmer.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

A few observations:
This is the 6th game farm in MN erradicated for CWD. There is a flaw in the system.

The CWD prion does not decompose. Moving the dirt to isolation for 5 years does nothing. That is window dressing.

Due to the size of the prion, it is likely also in the ground water at this time. Who fixes that, and who is drinking the contaminated water right now?

If deer were able to move inside, was there also a transfer outside from deer?

The fences required by regulation have apx. a 4" square mesh. How does that stop a molecule sized prion from passing through? Why are all of these facilities not double fenced with a buffer between?

Will there be an independent outside audit by MN DNR for compliance, and to track the paper trail of animls sold out, and animals sold into the facility for the last seven years? Obviously the MN Dept. of Ag cannot handle the situation or it would not have occured 6 times.

What is the total cost going to be to taxpayers for this fiasco?


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Dick....

Insurance will pay for a bunch of it. For every animal that is destroyed and not found to have CWD the farmer will get paid by its insurance company. Just like cattle getting destroyed or killed. But if they sell the meat then they won't get paid by the insurance company. Because they are making income off the meat sales.

That is why when the first CWD scare hit MN most insurance companies stop writing Elk/Deer farms. Or the premiums sky rocketed. Also to let you know that if an out break occurs in the wild population the insurance company could be on the hook for that clean up mess.

The real cost to tax payers is all the state officials working on this problem....ie sharp shooters, tests, lab work, etc. Which the state could go back after the insurance company until the liability limits are met.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

Maybe the public doesn't pay taxes so to speak if the insurance companies are paying.
But don't fool your self, you will pay for it in higher insurance cost in the future.

 Al


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Chuck, I could be wrong but I believe domestic farmed elk are indemnified by APHIS under USDA. Taxpayers. We'll see though. I do know NDGF never got a check from an insurance company for the animal leaks in ND. Sportsmen paid for that, and still are.

Update:

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article ... &catid=391


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Dick...

Each state has different rules regaurding insurance. So in a ND case I have no clue.

But I know that MN the insurance company's did not want anything to do with Domestic Elk and Deer....because of liability. Which was over 6 years ago if I remember correctly. So things could have changed. All I know is the companies I work for don't want anything to do with Elk or Deer Farms and I am going by what they told me 6 years ago.

But also in this case with out looking and knowing what they had for insurance....who knows who will be paying.

----------------- edit --------------------------------------

On that fact that people will pay higher permiums......That is not totally correct. Other people in the ELK business might but not the regular guy with home or auto insurance......Totally different risks.



> Chuck, I could be wrong but I believe domestic farmed elk are indemnified by APHIS under USDA. Taxpayers. We'll see though. I do know NDGF never got a check from an insurance company for the animal leaks in ND. Sportsmen paid for that, and still are.


Are you talking about the herd clean up or about escaped animals and resulting "clean up" of that.?

Because clean up like what is happening in this case is paid for. Because I am sure he had his herd insured. Just like people have other live stock insured.


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## DG (Jan 7, 2008)

This was posted by Tim Sandstrom from FBO:

http://www.fishingbuddy.com/sharpshoote ... rd?app_p=1

Wasting Disease

Date: September 09, 2009 
Source: University of California, San Francisco

Contacts: 
Jennifer O'Brien
[email protected]
415-476-2557San

Scientists have discovered that deer asymptomatic for a fatal brain condition known as chronic wasting disease excrete the infectious prions that cause the disease in their feces. The finding, they say, suggests a plausible explanation for transmission of the disease among deer and, possibly, elk and moose in the environment.

The study is reported as an advance online paper on September 9, 2009 in the journal "Nature."

While the study reveals that prions are shed in feces of symptomatic deer as well, the discovery that the infected deer shed prions (PREE-ons) in their feces many months before they show clinical symptoms has particularly provocative implications, according to the research team, at University of California, San Francisco and the Colorado Division of Wildlife's Wildlife Research Center.

Deer, elk and moose inadvertently consume feces and soil in the course of their daily grazing. Given this, the team set out to determine whether the animals could develop chronic wasting disease through long-term consumption of contaminated feces. They did so by measuring the amount of prions contained in the feces of orally infected deer up until the time they became symptomatic and then calculated whether prolonged exposure to the concentrations of prions in these feces would be enough to cause the disease.

"Prion levels in feces samples of asymptomatic deer were very low compared to those in the brains of the same deer at the time of death," says the lead author of the study, Erdem Tamguney, PhD, an assistant professor at the Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases, based at UCSF. "However, the total number of prions excreted over time was sufficiently high enough to cause disease in other deer."

The susceptibility of animals to infection, he says, might be increased by the simultaneous ingestion of clay soil, which is thought to enhance the infectivity of prions, possibly by slowing their clearance from the gastrointestinal tract.

"Our findings suggest that prolonged fecal prion excretion by infected deer provides a plausible explanation for the high level of transmission of chronic wasting disease within deer herds, as well as prion transmission among deer and other cervid species. Our work may also explain transmission of scrapie prions among sheep and goats," says senior author and Nobel laureate Stanley B. Prusiner, MD, UCSF professor of neurology and director of the UCSF Institute for Neurodegenerative Diseases.

The study did not examine whether chronic wasting disease could be transmitted to humans via exposure to deer feces. To date, transgenic mouse studies have indicated that chronic wasting disease does not transmit to humans, but scientists remain open to the possibility that it could.

"We can only say that prions of chronic wasting disease have not transmitted to mice genetically engineered to carry the normal, healthy form of human prion protein in earlier studies," says Prusiner. "That said, we do not know for sure that deer or elk prions cannot be transmitted to humans."

The prion is an infectious form of the normal prion protein, which has been found in all mammals examined, including humans. The lethal, infectious form induces the normal protein to twist into a malconformation, initiating a disease process that ravages the brain. Prion diseases, seen in cervids, sheep, cows and humans, are also referred to as spongiform encephalopathies. Prusiner won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1997 for the discovery of prions as a new biological principle of infection.

The new study sheds light on a question that has puzzled scientists for a number of years: how chronic wasting disease spreads so widely through herds and species in contrast to bovine spongiform encephalopathy in cattle, in which horizontal transmission between animals is rare.

First detected in a research facility in Colorado in 1967, chronic wasting disease has since been detected in fourteen states in the U.S. and in two Canadian provinces, predominantly in the West, both in the wild and on commercial farms. In wild herds, it can sometimes be found in up to 30 percent of animals; in captivity nearly entire herds can be affected.

Studies have shown that the disease can be transmitted orally - deer experimentally fed infected brain tissue become sick - but the animals are not carnivores, nor cannibalistic. And while prions have been reported in the saliva, blood, muscle, urine and antler velvet of symptomatic animals with late-stage disease, there is little evidence that these sources are responsible for high incidence of the disease within herds.

Epidemiological findings argue that chronic wasting disease spreads efficiently across populations. When healthy deer grazed on pastureland previously used by deer with chronic wasting disease, the healthy deer eventually develop the disease. But there has been no clear mechanism of transmission of prions in this way.

The UCSF scientists teamed up with co-investigators led by Michael Miller, DVM, PhD, of the Colorado Division of Wildlife's Wildlife Research Center, to investigate the issue. Five deer were orally infected with one gram of brain tissue from a deer that had died of chronic wasting disease. Then fecal samples from the animals were collected at five time points - once before they were infected (as a control group), and then post infection at 3-4 months, 9-10 months, 13-14 months and 16-20 months (when animals show symptoms of the disease). Symptoms include inability to hold the head erect, excessive salivation, unsteady gait and poor grooming skills.

The UCSF scientists irradiated the deer feces to kill all bacteria and viruses, and inoculated the fecal material into the brains of mice genetically engineered to over-express the normal, healthy version of the elk prion protein.

An analysis showed that feces collected before infection and at 3-4 months post infection did not transmit the disease to the mice. At all subsequent time points, however, many fecal samples did transmit the disease. Prion infectivity was found in 14 of the 15 samples collected from the five deer as early as 7-11 months before neurological symptoms developed.

To measure the prions in feces, the team conducted a separate experiment in which they correlated the time required for mice to become ill from various prion concentrations in infected elk brain tissue (brain samples were diluted with varying amounts of water). Then they compared this data to the incubation times of the mice inoculated with contaminated feces, determining the amount of infectivity of the samples at different time points. While the number of prions in individual samples was low, the amount that accumulated over a 10-month period was similar to that in brain at the end-stage of the disease.

The findings offer strong evidence, says Prusiner, that prion contamination of forest, shrub-steppe and grassland habitats may be largely responsible for the high incidence of the disease both within and between cervid species and account for geographic spread as deer move between seasonal ranges.

Other co-authors of the study are Lisa L. Wolfe, MS, DVM, and Tracey M. Sirochman, BA, of the Colorado Division of Wildlife, Wildlife Research Center; David V. Glidden, PhD, professor of epidemiology and biostatistics, Christina Palmer, MS, Azucena Lemus, BS, of pathology, and Stephen J. DeArmond, MD, PhD, professor of pathology, all of UCSF.

The study was funded by the Larry L. Hillblom Foundation, the Colorado Division of Wildlife, grants from the U.S. Department of Defense National Prion Research Program and the National Institutes of Health.

UCSF is a leading university dedicated to promoting health worldwide through advanced biomedical research, graduate-level education in the life sciences and health professions, and excellence in patient care.

The situation is under control contrary to what Dick would lead people to believe. He is always trying to illuminate CWD or some other fear into uncertainty so that people like nervous cattle can be blown into a stampede with just the right spark. Fair Chase initiative no traction.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Little late Dwight. That was the 5th post in the topic. 

But since you're here and a high fence owner offering shooting, what is the indemnity amount per head? Why is the 5 year number magic to certify disease free when CWD keeps showing up after 5 years? If MN regulations are so good why do they have this 6th herd being eradicated at taxpayer expense? You must believe the feces connection so why do vehicles even travel inside high fence areas, and how do the trailers get cleaned by those that haul back and forth to other states? What do you propose should be done with the contaminated soil? Is the water a danger? Just asking. Have a good one.


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

I'll say it again,if I choose to accept risk,I(or my Ins Co if stupid enough to write it)should be responsible,not the public.Pierce any corporate veils they may set up and get them personally as well if necessary.Play with fire=risk getting burned.


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## DG (Jan 7, 2008)

If our concern here for the situation in MN. is genuine than we should be equally concerned about Wyoming. The DNR is feeding the largest concentration of big game anywhere at Jackson Hole. Some of these animals are infected with CWD. Have the authorities there given ground water contamination a thought? When they feed do they get it on the tires and then drive on public highways? Do shed hunters get these prions on their shoes and then walk through airports?

The elk at the Hoene brothers ranch in MN. will be depopulated and that is good. But what is to be done at Jackson Hole? The elk there are also getting brucelosis from the buffalo in Yellowstone National Park. If these buffalo were from a private herd it would have already been depopulated. Double standard??

There are teams of experts who will get this figured out someday. What we don't need now is fear and knee jerk over reaction. Knee jerk laws knee jerk regulations. No one group should try to exploit these situations for politcal gain. Everyone here should know by now how this game is played. Bob Kellam was on the mound and he pitched the story. At this place and time in history it was a spitball. And the fans go crazy. 
Fair Chase No Traction


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## hammer007911 (Feb 4, 2009)

duckp said:


> 'Gamefarms'-truly the scourge of the earth in this case.Interesting that we have to pay for it.If I go in business on my farm,a business that has risks on say,toxic waste spills.I assume that risk and if there's a 'spill',I pay for the cleanup.Not the taxpayers.


Not quite, if you have a transportation spill in MN a State Hazmat team shows up no charge.

Hammer


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

The followup is going to interesting to say the least. Where were elk shipped from Pine Island in the last 7 years? Hmmm. And where were elk shipped from those locations in the last 7 years? This would cover a lot of ground. MN is going to need an independent audit by DNR.

Dwight, I thought elk in Yellowstone have a higher infection rate of brucelosis than bison? But elk is big business out there and tourism doesn't want elk shot. Just bison.  Darn bison.

Anyway, ND deer farmers are setting up presentations on deer farming in ND schools. Bet they'll set the record straight. First one in Turttle Lake?


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## DG (Jan 7, 2008)

Dick,



> Dwight, I thought elk in Yellowstone have a higher infection rate of brucelosis than bison? But elk is big business out there and tourism doesn't want elk shot. Just bison. Darn bison.


Do you think you're funny. If public opinion changed and they wished all of them killed would you still be laughing.

If the N.D. deer growers are doing presentations about deer farming in schools than you should be OK with that. Afterall, it wouldn't be any different than a few years ago when the G/F went to Bismarck State College and gave a neutral "wink wink" presentation about the pros and cons of raising these same animals.

But in the future how ever am I going to hold your FC team at bay. I mean, you've got duckup....... Everytime he opens up his pie hole and rams food in his head does he think about his choice to accept risk to his health? No, he lives in a country with an abundant safe food supply. FC/NT


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Lost your sense of humor? If NDGF was giving presentations they should do more of them. Every school in the state.

*DG said:*


> The DNR is feeding the largest concentration of big game anywhere at Jackson Hole. Some of these animals are infected with CWD.


 Would you share your documentation please?


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## DG (Jan 7, 2008)

Dick,

You have been on-line with FBO all day. Don't see how you could have missed it , but here you go buddy.

http://www.fws.gov/nationalelkrefuge/

DNR or USFWS or DNR or USFWS?

I can't tell the difference. Ya know I haven't finished my on-line courses with the University of the N.D. Outdoor Heritage Coalition yet. But I do read all your lectures.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

this starts jumping to humans and it will be interesting to see public demand about deer and elk management

I bet they will be shot on sight year round out of fear


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Dick I couldn't help but notice you wouldn't jump in on this discussion on FBO. Or any of the discussions on HF. I have one question for you to answer in regards to the health risks of this issue. The human form of these spongiform encephelopathies that are the same as BSE in cattle, CWD in deer and elk, scrappies in sheep ect... has been scientifically indentified as vCJD in humans. Can you tell us the number of documented cases of this disease here in the US. The answer is none.

In the case of BSE when it was initially found in a Canadian originated animal here in the US in 2003, there were many groups that took advantage of this issue and put forth many unfactual statements and mistruthes to further their agenda. These have all been proven untrue by responsible peer reviewed unbiased science and have been proven for what they were, and attempt tofurther an agenda to end animal agriculture. Please if you would provide any unbiased scientific study showing a risk to humans contracting vCJD thru ground water contamination with CWD prions. If you can't, we are left to wonder what agenda you are trying to further.

Should responsible science and continueing research be used to protect the health of humans and animals, of course. But should unproven infered connection and supposition be used by individuals as "science" to further an agenda? To me this is pretty irresponsible and self serving. The problem is most of the public doesn't take time to research what is fact and what is fiction and many groups know this. I guess we will have to wait and see how the group ND Hunters for Fair Chase which Dick is a member and sponsor of the HF initiative chooses to "educate" the nonhunting public in regards to this issue. Hopefully they don't use the same tactics HSUS and PETA did with the BSE issue as the public's perceptions may not be limited to just the risk from "hunting" animals within a HF.


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## DG (Jan 7, 2008)

Bobm,

Professor Monson made the hypothesis that these prions could get into ground water and dirt. All it will take is one false positive human death trumped up by the media. What landowner/rancher/farmer would want wild deer or elk on their property? Shoot/shovel/shut up.

Bobm, Did you find this website interesting:

http://www.fws.gov/nationalelkrefuge/

Isn't that something to see like 10,000 wild elk come running to the feed wagons. They are fed 40 tons of pellets every day. I have to go on one of those sleigh rides. Get some pictures. They have several miles of fence to keep the elk off of public highways. But it also bootlenecks the elk trying to get into the refuge. And that is where the hunters are waiting. The elk have to run a gauntlet so to speak. Hunters blast them as they walk by. A resident can buy a tag over the counter as easily as paying for gas.

Hey Dick, Revolting isn't it?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> DG said:Quote:
> The DNR is feeding the largest concentration of big game anywhere at Jackson Hole. Some of these animals are infected with CWD.





> Would you share your documentation please?


Dwight maintains the National Elk Refuge is contaminated with CWD? I'd like to see the his documentation but it hasn't been produced. Could very well be, but would like to see it. This is all I can find find from the fws web site but that may not be current:

http://www.fws.gov/nationalelkrefuge/Do ... _facts.pdf

No mention of CWD in the Refuge. I am still waiting for a call back from the Refuge on this question.

There is a long term study of vCJD infection in New York State. 300 + folks who ate venison stew at an upstate firemans fund raiser. The donated meat was contaminated with CWD. From a hf facility. If there is a link,.......it may not be apparent in those folks for many years. There is no doubt the ground is contaminated under these facilities like the one in MN. Probably the water too, which is of course moving. This MN story is going to be a long term investigation.


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## DG (Jan 7, 2008)

Dick,

In your world , if all facts, documents, claims, hypothesis, rules, laws or whatever must be scrutinized to the nth degree, than you should have absolutely no reason or reservations about answering this question posed to you over and over.

"Dick, Does "big game species" includes farmed elk and privately owned deer and if so please show us how?

This is your response on FBO:

Yes it does and no I'm not going to tell how at this time. On a side note if folks read their latest issue of Dakota Country, the editor Bill Mitzell has endorsed the Fair Chase Measure and urged passage. (page 77 June issue) Ted Kerasote of Outdoor Life has endorsed the measure. Jim Poswitz of Orion too. And I think Tony Dean of Dakota Backroads has done the same or will.

I'm waiting.

More on Jackson Hole:

http://www.bart5.com/


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

Dick come on here now. When asked to provide a link to proof of your last statement of CWD being a significant medical risk to humans thru ground water contamination from domestic elk like you suggested, you failed to do so and then put forth another statement regarding CWD and human health without any link to show an unbiased scientific report documenting what you claim.

Back when the BSE deal hit in 2003 PETA and the HSUS began making all kinds of unsubstantiated statements and outright lies aimed at getting people to believe a link between an animal disease and a serious risk to human health to accomplish their agendas of ending a form of animal ag that were all proven untrue. It appears you and your group are taking a page right out of their play book to try and accomplish yours.

You keep bringing up vCJD, how many documented cases in the entire population of the US has there been??? NONE!! Even the rather large segment of the medical community that is opposed to the consumption of red meat or any meat at all has not been able to make this into any kind of a significant risk. So why are you trying??

If your group is not willing to come on these outdoor sites and debate the issue of your measure with factual statements, but yet you take the time thru other forms of media to present it to the nonhunting public, what are we supposed to think about your groups agenda and how you are going about it? To me it looks and smells alot like how these anti hunting/anti animal ag groups that your group has sided with try to accomplish their goals by focasing on "educating" the public that is least informed on the issue with disingenuous mistruthes in an attempt to sway them into supporting their agenda!!


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## huntnfishn1 (Feb 8, 2009)

hmmm the colorado fish and game service introduced CWD while testing with sheep.


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## DG (Jan 7, 2008)

At some of these facilities captive deer were housed with sheep infected with scrapies.

1. Sybille Wildlife Research and Education Center, Visitor Center and Wildlife Viewing Sites - on Hwy. 34, about 28 miles SW from I25 exit south of Wheatland State of Wyoming - Game and Fish Department - Sybille Visitor Center 2362 Highway 34 Wheatland State WY 82201 Phone 307-322-2784 from 4

2. Kremmling. Colorado State University - Cooperative Extension - Grand County PO. Box 475 Kremmling State CO 80459 Phone 303-724-3436 from 1

3. Meeker. Colorado State University - Cooperative Extension - Rio Blanco County 779 Sulphur Creek Road, Box 270 City Meeker CO 81641 Phone 303-878-4093 from 1

4. Main Ft. Collins facility. State of Colorado - Division of Wildlife - Wildlife Research Center State of Colorado - Division of Wildlife - Wildlife Research Center 317 West Prospect City Fort Collins CO 80526 Phone 970-484-2836

5. Wild Animal Disease Center, CSU, Ft. Collins exchanging cervids with 4


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