# hunting commercialization is everywhere!



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Alabama Hunting Regulations Spark Debate

Mon Aug 23, 3:25 AM ET Add U.S. National - AP to My Yahoo!

By JAY REEVES, Associated Press Writer

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. - A move to liberalize Alabama's hunting laws has sparked a debate so passionate you'd think the subject was college football.

A state board has approved a series of proposals to loosen hunting regulations in Alabama, where hunting is a $3 billion industry helped along by one of the nation's longest game seasons. Under the new rules, hunters could use turkey decoys, crossbows and sights on muzzleloaders - practices that are all currently banned.

The Alabama Department of Conservation and Natural Resources says the changes are aimed at adding more options for hunters, and the move already has opened up new marketing opportunities for hunting manufacturers and retailers. While the changes still aren't final, Wal-Mart stores in the state have started stocking crossbows from $159 and up.

But the new rules have outraged some unusual critics - hunters themselves, not the animal-rights types who might be expected to join such a fight. They say traditional outdoor ideals like fair play are being trumped by dollars in a bid to sell more products and increase the state's sale of hunting licenses, which has lagged in recent years.

"My biggest concern is the hunter ethics they are destroying," said Bud Cardinal, a retired veterinarian and former member of the state board that approved the changes. :beer:

Symbolic of the chasm dividing state hunters, Cardinal said he can only speak for himself and not the Alabama Wildlife Federation, for which he is a lobbyist. Directors of the organization are split over the issue.

While the changes would begin taking effect this fall, a special legislative council still must approve the new rules. No hearing date is set, but both sides are getting ready for a fight.

"It's an interesting mix that all boils down to the social aspects of hunting," said Jerry de Bin, a spokesman for the state conservation agency.

In a state where sporting debates usually revolve around Alabama vs. Auburn on the gridiron, hunting rules have become a point of contention. The debate is mostly out of the public view since the state sold only 432,000 hunting licenses in 2003, or one for every 10 of Alabama's 4.3 million residents.

The drive for changes began earlier this year in the Legislature, where a bill was introduced to legalize deer and turkey hunting over baited fields within certain guidelines.

The bill - which purists considered a green light to unethical hunting - died in committee. But in May, the Conservation Advisory Board, which helps sets policy for the state wildlife agency, approved a series of unrelated changes. They included:

_Allowing the use of decoys during spring turkey season. Supporters said Alabama was the only state that didn't allow decoys for turkey hunting, in which the skills of camouflaging, stillness and calling are vital and can take years to master.

_Approving the use of crossbows, which are held like rifles and are generally considered easier to use than traditional longbows or compound bows. Previously, only disabled hunters could use crossbows in Alabama.

_Letting hunters who use old-fashioned muzzleloading guns add telescope-like sights to their weapons. Also, the board allowed hunting with muzzleloaders during five days previously set aside for bow hunters.

Accusations of wrongdoing began almost as soon as the meeting ended.

Board chairman Dan Moultrie, who owned a game-feeder company and now works for a company that makes products including turkey decoys, was accused of having a conflict of interest when he voted to allow decoys. :eyeroll: The board approved the change again at a meeting last month, with Moultrie abstaining from the vote.

*But that didn't blunt the broader criticism that loosening the regulations would give hunters an unfair advantage over their prey. *And some traditional bow hunters are still angry about the approval of crossbows - which they claim really are firearms - and about losing part of their season to muzzleloaders.

(Bobm says :******: The money march is never ending, all these muzzleloader seasons are is lobbyists creating a market for another weapon seller. If the people that use muzzleloaders really wanted more challenge they would just use them during the regular gun season ditto crossbows)

De Bin, a spokesman for the conservation department and Commissioner Barnett Lawley, said the changes were about opening up new avenues for hunters, not money. :eyeroll: Bull ****

"There's enough deer to go around. This commissioner has said we're going to give people choice," de Bin said.

De Bin said most hunters favor the new rules becoming permanent, and Tommy Birkenfeld is among them. With an old shoulder injury that makes it hard for him to draw and hold a regular bow, Birkenfeld already is practicing with his new crossbow.

"I went and bought one as soon as they voted for the change," said Birkenfeld.

Hunting technology and commercialization is getting sickening :sniper:


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

The only thing that I see a problem with is crossbows, and those would be fine if used only during firearm season. What am I missing thats got everyone so stirred up?


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Scoped muzzle loaders?? and all this stuff is an effort to sell more sporting goods and put the animals at a greater disadvantage. The hell with things like challenge and woodsmanship next there will be battery powered turkey decoys like the ducks you guys use, I just think this stuff is over the line.....
WE hunters should be putting greater restrictions on technowledgy not embracing it


----------



## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I still dont get whats so bad about a muzzleloader thats scoped. It is still limited by virtue of its relatively weak black powder load, and single shot. Maybe it will result in less run offs from bad shots from iron sights.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

The point of a primitive weapon hunt is to reenact the way it was done whenthat weapon was the weapon of the day not add some doodad to make it more modern. The real point of the post is that commercialzation is in every aspect of hunting and destroying it slowly but surely.....


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

We agree again Bob...I've seen scoped muzzleloaders kill out to 150 or more yds.I hardly ever shoot a deer any further than that.

If scopes are allowed it is not a primitive weapon anymore...just another way for someone to get a second buck license here.If that's the case...we might as well have a 30-06 season and a 30-30 season etc.

Put those couple thousand buck tags back into the regular draw...some of us don't get drawn for a buck and others get 2.


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Bob, if you wanna be old school, best put that long bow away and use a spear or a sharp rock like the good old boys. It's all about individual style and satisfaction level. Either way your still hunting.

http://www.mathewsinc.com/v2/home/produ ... egoryID=87

I know what style you are headed towards Bob.


----------



## toad (Sep 27, 2003)

From my understanding the people instrumental in lobbing for the ND muzzleloader deer season were members of muzzleloader clubs. These guy's and gal's use percussion caps and flint locks (smokepoles). I don't think they wanted inlines used for this season let alone scopes on a muzzleloader. 
As for ND, I believe a 1X scope is acceptable. This is to be a traditional season, not another rifle season! Do you think Lewis and Clark used scopes on their rifles? It takes patience and a little more time to prepare for using these type of rifles. Have we gotten to the point they we cannot take the time and use patience? Might as well extend rifle season. 
As for the use of crossbows open up a season similar to muzzleloader season, but I don't believe they should be consider the sames as a bow. 
I hope ND does not view this as a rule to follow. Muzzleloaders need to stay the way the regulations are written and crossbow should be used in their own season.


----------



## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

Bobm said:


> WE hunters


From the sounds of things in AL there won't be many "WE hunters" to lobby on behalf of the sport the way things are going. Gotta admit one selling point of those arguments is valid in that it will likely bring more people into the field and along with selling more gear.....will sell more licenses.

Personally I dont need turkey decoys, crossbows or muzzle loader scopes so I would say no thanks.


----------



## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

In North Dakota you require a permit to use a crossbow during regular bow season. And also have to have some sort of disability. And that requires a Doctor signing a form for the NDGF. I hunt with a cross bow because of a injury. Its an option for some one that cannot shoot a regular bow anymore. And as far as the black powder i would of personally would of had it stayed traditional but some inline company wined and dined the politicians so now we have 200 yard black powder guns.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I don't have a problem with just about any help or slack they cut someone who is injured or disabled in some legitimate way. I'm sure some abuse it like everything else.

Goldy my friend, always the devil :lol: Down here in Georgia we don't have a spear and rock season, so I guess I'll have to stick with my "Modern" longbow. Do they have one in Minn. if they ever do allow spears, you would probably have to try and figure out how to put wheels and sights on em.  Seasons almost here yippee!


----------

