# Haggling At the Dealership



## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

Gonna be purchasing a newer vehicle soon and wondering about everybodys thoughts on negotiating price. I found pretty much my dream truck, a 2007 F350 Crew Cab King Ranch Diesel, FX4 off road, moon roof, remote start, fiberglass topper, carpeted bedliner, and every option available from the dealer at the manufacture date. And only 32,500 miles. This trucks new MSRP is $65,000, the dealer is asking $39,900. Did some stuff on KBB, I'm thinking the retail value is closer to $39,400, and I'm assuming they probably gave the guy about $30,000 on trade in for that truck. Anyone think it is unreasonable to be able to get this for 34-35K? Any tips on negotiating?

Not huge on used vehicles, but with so few miles if I can get this for around $35,000 I think it is a really good deal.


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## Andy Weber (Nov 18, 2009)

I know everyone is going to say Im too young for this but I grew up working for an auctioneer and selling things all my life so here is my advice. Everyone thinks the if the dealer says no once they have to give up and pay full price. That isn't true. Not many people have the guts to tell a salesperson what they will pay and if they say no way walk out. I purchased an ATV and he wanted $9500. I walked in and said I would give him $8900 if he have me a winch and a windshield. He said that that leaves no room for profit. So i walked out. Went to the next dealer. Same deal. Third dealer. Got it for $8800 with winch and windshield and heavy duty battery. Just takes patience. Start lower than what you want to pay, but not so low that they will go into nosale mode. Because thats just as bad.


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

Basically, that is the plan. I need a new truck, just not absolutely positively right now and that particular one. Its going to be a company vehicle, so I figure if I walk in with a check and say I'll make this out to you right now for $34,000, no dealing with paperwork/financing BS, that may make them a little more willing to deal also.


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## the professor (Oct 13, 2006)

The last truck I bought was advertised at $25,500; after a week of emails and phone calls, I got it for $19,500 with a spray-in bedliner installed. Do your homework, see if you can find similar models for sale at other dealers, and don't be afraid to walk away. Fall in love with a price, not a particular truck. That's how you get the most for your money.


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## Save Hens (Mar 15, 2008)

if the 07' has the 6.0L stay away, stay far away of that engine...the 6.4 isnt much better. If your not trading nothing in, you will be able to to jew them around way easier, just my 2 bits


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

The '06 and '07 model year 6.0L is pretty solid, '03, '04, and '05 were bad as changes to correct the problems were not addressed until the '05 model year. The '06 6.0L actually had the fewest warranty issues out of any Ford engine that year. My dad had 200,000 on his '06 when he got rid of it, have several friends that have not had problems with the later models. 6.4's were worse, take a look at used vehicles and its shocking how many are for sale. Thats why they were only available for 3 years. Won't be trading anything in unless they want my truck but I doubt it...


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## Buck25 (Mar 27, 2008)

Andy Weber said:


> I know everyone is going to say Im too young for this but I grew up working for an auctioneer and selling things all my life so here is my advice. Everyone thinks the if the dealer says no once they have to give up and pay full price. That isn't true. Not many people have the guts to tell a salesperson what they will pay and if they say no way walk out. I purchased an ATV and he wanted $9500. I walked in and said I would give him $8900 if he have me a winch and a windshield. He said that that leaves no room for profit. So i walked out. Went to the next dealer. Same deal. Third dealer. Got it for $8800 with winch and windshield and heavy duty battery. Just takes patience. Start lower than what you want to pay, but not so low that they will go into nosale mode. Because thats just as bad.


your too young for this


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Tell him in a few months gas will be $5 gal and he'll be glad to get what you are offering........................


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

:rollin: Dealer won't care what gas is in a few months oke: . It's a diesel engine.

 Al


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## Andy Weber (Nov 18, 2009)

Buck25 said:


> Andy Weber said:
> 
> 
> > I know everyone is going to say Im too young for this but I grew up working for an auctioneer and selling things all my life so here is my advice. Everyone thinks the if the dealer says no once they have to give up and pay full price. That isn't true. Not many people have the guts to tell a salesperson what they will pay and if they say no way walk out. I purchased an ATV and he wanted $9500. I walked in and said I would give him $8900 if he have me a winch and a windshield. He said that that leaves no room for profit. So i walked out. Went to the next dealer. Same deal. Third dealer. Got it for $8800 with winch and windshield and heavy duty battery. Just takes patience. Start lower than what you want to pay, but not so low that they will go into nosale mode. Because thats just as bad.
> ...


Yupp sure am. What do I know?


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## GSPMIKE (May 28, 2010)

Along with what Andy is saying...

I am at the ripe old age of 27 and here is my advise.

Before you head to the dealers/private sellers.
Know what you want, exactly what you want. Write it on a piece of paper. Find out exactly what its worth, new or used. Compare prices online in YOUR area.

Come up with a reasonable price to pay for what you want. (If its more that you can afford, minus out some of the wants)

If your trading, Know exactly what your trade is worth and pay $100 to get it detailed.

Now that you know, what you want, what its worth and what you should pay for it (and if your trading what your trade is reasonably worth), its time to go shopping.

When shopping never mention trading, avoid the question like the plauge. Try not to tell them flat out no, or yes. DONT FALL IN LOVE, where you just got to got to got to have it. Sales people see this and wont budge on the price. Take it for a test drive come back, if its everything you hoped for. Tell them what you would pay for it.

They will either agree or say no, with a counter offer. If they say no. Give them your phone number. Let them know again what your going to pay for said car or truck and then tell them your buying a vehicle today and your have X amount more to look at in the area and if he calls you tomorrow, you will already have bought or decided to wait.

Even if the salesman says, its only $500 more than you offered. Say no, unless he is willing to give you ONLY $500 of his own money to help you buy it.

If they agree to your price, that is great, your already happy paying that amount. If your trading, this is the time to mention that you would like to trade. They will try to lowball you, because they just lost x amount off the top of the sale and they want to get it back. Dont trade if they low ball you. Sell it out right for a reasonable price above the trade value.

I've fallen in love when buying something too many times, it always resaults in payng too much, cause you lose the heart to barter.


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## wingaddict (Sep 16, 2009)

maple lake duck slayer said:


> Basically, that is the plan. I need a new truck, just not absolutely positively right now and that particular one. Its going to be a company vehicle, so I figure if I walk in with a check and say I'll make this out to you right now for $34,000, *no dealing with paperwork/financing BS, that may make them a little more willing to deal also*.


That's a common misconception. Dealers actually MAKE money on financing. The words "I'll pay you cash" have had little value to a dealer since the 70's. 
Saying you'll write the check out now, only proves your willing to buy today, and this is the reason why they may be willing to negotiate.


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## Buck25 (Mar 27, 2008)

wingaddict said:


> maple lake duck slayer said:
> 
> 
> > Basically, that is the plan. I need a new truck, just not absolutely positively right now and that particular one. Its going to be a company vehicle, so I figure if I walk in with a check and say I'll make this out to you right now for $34,000, *no dealing with paperwork/financing BS, that may make them a little more willing to deal also*.
> ...


Are you sure all dealers have enough money to finance ppl's cars or do they go through the bank and have the bank actually finance it? Seems like they would have to have a lot of cash laying around to be financing all those cars...Not calling you wrong i really have know idea nd just wondering.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

A bank does the fianancing. But in "closing" the car loan they dealer or sales person gets $$$$ in way of financing charges, fees, etc.


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## lesserhunter (May 9, 2008)

dont buy anything from MN motors in fergus falls mn. thats my truck buying advice


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

Chuck Smith said:


> A bank does the fianancing. But in "closing" the car loan they dealer or sales person gets $$$$ in way of financing charges, fees, etc.


Right, the way I understand it is small town dealers basically get an origination fee for "selling" the loan. Banks make all the interest unless the dealer is large enough to do their own financing like good ol Denny Hecker used to do.

I'm not jumping at buying this particular truck, just exploring options. The only thing I really cared about was if I was going to buy a used diesel, it had to be an '06 or '07 with less than 40,000 miles...very hard to find. This truck is the only one I have found under 40,000. Will not buy a used gas truck as the new ones have drastically improved output/mileage.

Comparing other vehicles, my Dad just bought a 2011 F250 6.2L gas for $36,250, just the XLT model. A crew cab longer box F150 with the 5.0L is probably in that ballpark, Lariet you're looking at around $40,000.

Just seems you're getting a lot of truck with the '07 I listed above for around the same prices, just 4 years older with 32,000 miles.

I never jump into anything and always procrastinate and do a lot of research. I'm sure it will be gone before I decide to do anything. Just don't want or think my truck will go through another winter.


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## lesserhunter (May 9, 2008)

you might be gaining more gas mileage with the newer gas pickups but if you actually use it like a pickup instead of just a regular highway driving vehicle you will lose ALOT more than you gain. i have a 07 f150 and my dad has a 2010 that is identical but my truck has alot more power. his truck will also has a few features that do something with the brakes when the tires start to spin that really sucks when your in snow or mud and dont want to loose your momentum. hook a trailer on the new models with alot of weight and then compare your gas mileage to something 2004-08 and than let me know which is better. unfortunetly to meet emmisions and all the other BS regulations they cant make a pickup that actaully has power now. if i wanted gas mileage id buy a car, pickups are for working and need the power


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

The new 5.0L in the 2011's from what I hear is really nice. One of the project managers at work just bought one a few months back. His wife gets 19 mpg commuting to work and back, and he just hauled 120 square bales on a heavy duty trailer and said it hauled it really well with all sorts of power and got 13 mpg hauling that load. You can typically override a lot of those traction features, I was able to when i test drove my Dads 2011 F250 for 2 weeks while he was in Mexico.


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## specialpatrolgroup (Jan 16, 2009)

Here is a secret that I learned, sales men dont make jack if they dont sell anything, and will sell below cost sometimes if they have to, since at least they are making commision off the deal. My last 2 vehicles I bought below dealer cost. Both times I had to walk away at some point, then go back in a few days later and deal with the same person on a differnt vechicle. Your problem is that this is your"dream" truck so your probably not willing to walk away and look for a differnt one.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

A lot of times the dealer will add on insurance and not tell you until you see it in the paperwork.Look closely.If it's there,ask them to remove it.It is nothing but expensive term life insurance for the time you are making payments.The money doesn't come to you but to whomever has the loan.

Pretty much every vehicle I've bought,I have had to ask them to remove it.


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## wingaddict (Sep 16, 2009)

Ken it is ILLEGAL for the dealership to not disclose to you that credit insurance is included in the financing costs.


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## leverb66 (Dec 10, 2009)

I don't know of any dealership in eastern ND that regularly has 9k markups on used vehicles. Who would have traded their vehicle in for so little? If you are negotiating price on a used vehicle at a franshise dealer (Ford, Chevy, etc) I would bet the most you are going to get off the price is $1500. The way a dealer make money on the financing is by charging the customer a higher rate than the bank that is actually doing the financing. For instance, the dealer tells you they have financing arranged for you at 5.9% through XYZ Bank. XYZ Bank told the dealer they'd finance at 4.9%, the dealer gets the extra 1% interest.


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## leverb66 (Dec 10, 2009)

specialpatrolgroup said:


> Here is a secret that I learned, sales men dont make jack if they dont sell anything, and will sell below cost sometimes if they have to, since at least they are making commision off the deal. My last 2 vehicles I bought below dealer cost. Both times I had to walk away at some point, then go back in a few days later and deal with the same person on a differnt vechicle. Your problem is that this is your"dream" truck so your probably not willing to walk away and look for a differnt one.


At most dealerships the sales people do not make a decision regarding the price, a manager will. Usually if a vehicle is sold below cost, the salesperson makes very little at all. If you went back and got a better deal on a different vehicle, you were probably looking at a cheaper vehicle than the first one.

The best advice in vehicle shopping is to shop on the last day few days of the month. Dealers, and banks are trying to make goals and will be more willing to make consessions, so that they can make their goals.


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

Go to the following link and read every chapter in its entirety. I have bought 4 new cars using the advice from this site, and I have saved substantial money.

http://www.carbuyingtips.com/carintro.html


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

wingaddict said:


> Ken it is ILLEGAL for the dealership to not disclose to you that credit insurance is included in the financing costs.


All I know is that when going over the payment schedule and loan papers....I would see Insurance and ask what it was.That's when I was told it was life insurance to pay the cost if I died.


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## leverb66 (Dec 10, 2009)

KEN W said:


> wingaddict said:
> 
> 
> > Ken it is ILLEGAL for the dealership to not disclose to you that credit insurance is included in the financing costs.
> ...


Most contracts have a place to initial that you accepted the credit insurance. You certainly don't have to take it.


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## mach (Aug 29, 2005)

I went into a dealership and called the salesman for a test drive because I knew what I wanted and had some idea of the price I let the person know I really wasn't crazy about the color-blue but since it was the only one in that year I would buy it now if the price was right and I always pay cash and asked the sales manager if he could give me the best deal well I got $4000 off and he gave a honest price without any hidden charges, I then asked the salesman now what are you going to give me. He sensed that my son might be needing a vehicle soon as he graduates from college next month and I got a set of steel rims and winter tires thrown in. My son did indeed buy a new Subaru and got rebate for cash as that was a 2010 blue and the last one on the lot. CASH and the knowledge of knowing what you want and being up front that you are ready to buy Now gets some answers from the right salesperson


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

A new car/truck deprecition is between 20 and 25% as soon at the papers are signed. It is easy to look up what to is each year after that.

When I bought my pickup in 2004 I went to the creidit union where I used to do my bussiness for the loan as I had ordered my truck and knew the amount I would need to finance when it came in. I can wait 6 weeks to get what ever I want on my NEW car/truck. If I had bought the truck from the crappy dealer in town I could have gotten a 3% lower rate just from buying from that dealer. 
I went to a different creidit union I got the rate the first offered if I bought from the crappy dealer. I firmly believe you can save some money by shopping the financing your self. My rate was 2% lower than the dealers offer. 
The dealer some how gets a kick back for doing all the paper work for the finacing arm. It couldbe a higher rate of intrest than if you had shoped your self so thee dealer got the difference. It could be a flat fee the finaceing arm paid the dealer from the intrest they are going to make off you that the dealer gets.
But the dealer does get some thing for doing the paper work and saving paying a employee at the financeing arm to do that paper work.

 Al


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## deadwaterfowl_lead (Jul 10, 2008)

I actually work for a dealership in Sioux Falls here and heres my advice. Take it for a test drive sit down and ask what has been done in the shop as far as maint and what not go off of that to make your offer. With some of the markets struggling due to the disaster in Japan (import world) Domestic vehicles are going to be a hot item. Make them an offer they cant refuse and you are happy with. Like everyone says dont be affraid to say no and walk away. You do that they will be left stumbling over what to do to get the deal done. Bottom line is no one likes to loose money I know I dont companies dont either. I dont mind throwing a few bucks in there pocket but I like to save just as much as the next guy. Do some research on similar vehicles take it in and all you can do is try worst they are going to say is no.


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

Guys-

Thanks for all the replies, still been following this listing. Just checked, they knocked $2000 off the price as it is now listed for $37999. If they are willingly dropping the price themselves that much, anybody care to guess what I could get it for? I'm thinking I could take another $4000 off the asking.


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## Andy Weber (Nov 18, 2009)

maple lake duck slayer said:


> Guys-
> 
> Thanks for all the replies, still been following this listing. Just checked, they knocked $2000 off the price as it is now listed for $37999. If they are willingly dropping the price themselves that much, anybody care to guess what I could get it for? I'm thinking I could take another $4000 off the asking.


Stop asking us and make it happen man before someone else does haha. Good luck! :beer:


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

I never move fast on big purchases...it is agonizing for me to spend money. I always get harrassed for over analyizing, but I spend a lot of time researching and contemplating the purchase before I pull the trigger. I guess if it sells, it sells. No skin off my back. I would just look into something else. My biggest concern of my own is that it is a good purchase that I can afford. The actual truck itself does not matter that much. Since the price dropped though, I think I may get a little more serious about making a low offer on it.


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## dwshunt (Apr 26, 2003)

Like stated above, go in and offer them a lower price than you would pay. There isn't too many people looking for a one ton truck, so I think they will deal. Was it a lease return? If it was, figure what they already got for the truck too. You also have to be prepared to leave if they are not near what you are willing to pay. They will say they aren't making any money, the salesman is not gonna make any money, you will not find a better deal any where, etc. The will probably call you back before you have finished driving home or within a day or two. Stick by your price.

I have told a dealer that I will just buy the chevy, dodge, etc than this truck as it is just too high. After I had already gotten the best deal the salesman had ever heard of in 16 years, it was still too high and then they came down 1000 more to my price.

Nothing against dealers, they are just trying to make as much money as possible, which is only good business. I just say to myself they can make more money off someone else!

Good Luck


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