# After 2 years as a Senator......



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

what the hell qualifies NO-bama as commander-in-chief? yet retired General Wesley Clark (who is sucking on BHO) is attacking McCain and his service record as not qualifying him for the top position as leader of our country. this is WAYYYYYYYYYYY off base here and most Americans should see Clark as a total jerk off. a retired General who would attack an ex-POW?? :eyeroll: WTF?? what is wrong with people in this country??
just the most embarrassing thing ever for an ex military commander to say. Clark is an embarrassment to our country and to our service men.


----------



## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

I cannot for the life of me figure Clark out. If he doesnt like McCain, thats fine and hes welcome to his opinion. But to somehow think that Obama's two years as senator (one of which was spent on the campaign trail instead of behind the desk where he shoulda been) makes him a better president militarily than McCain is baffling. I truly cannot understand that logic.


----------



## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

hunter9494:

Being commander in chief is only part of the responsbilities of a president. So, using your logic, being a POW qualifies a person to be President of this country? Does it even qualify a person for the commander in chief responsibilities of the position?

Interestingly enough, I recently returned from a meeting in Phoenix. I was amazed at how many people in Phoenix dislike McCain and cringe at the idea of him being President. Many of these people allege that McCain was born into money and has not held a real job in his life. He has served in the military, but beyond that, they question how familiar McCain is with the average citizen.


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

BigDaddy, it's not hard to find someone in Phoenix that doesn't like McCain. I lived there for a few years and don't care for the guy either, but he does get re-elected year after year. Even during his run against Bush the Republican Governor of AZ backed Bush. She would not back McCain, at his dismay. Although you make some good points the subject was about being the Commander in Chief and I think McCain is better qualified and yes partially due to his military service. As to Clark??????? :huh:


----------



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

i will take McCains' upbringing and experiences over NO-bama's any day.
McCain has proven his toughness and willingness to serve our country.
So far NO-bama wants to change everything and diminish our military might and strength of our country. that is enough for me...you will have to figure out what is important for you as an American and what you can stomach to support in a candidate.....good luck with NO-bama!

as for NO-bama's non supporters in Chicago? i expect you could find quite a few, so what is your point? obviously, there is none....


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> so what is your point? obviously, there is none....


I agree, I don't think you have a point Bigdaddy. The subject was commander-in-chief. The other thing about people in Arizona that don't like McCain. I don't like him either, but I don't dislike him as much as Obama. You can find people anywhere that don't like someone. Finding people that don't like McCain in Phoenix is like finding fish in water.


----------



## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

My point, Plainsman is this: Hunter9494 was irate about Clark's opinion that McCain was not qualified to be commander in chief. Furthermore, hunter stated that he saw this as an attack by Clark on a POW. In fact, hunter called Clark and "embarrassment to our country and to our service men" for having the audacity to criticize an ex-POW.

Therefore, my point is that McCain's POW status should be irrelevant to his qualifications to be commander in chief, and therefore, President.


----------



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

boy, it is just amazing how many people can twist things around here, to prove what? no one said his POW experience qualified him to be commander in chief, more to the point, the man's whole military and public service experience are his qualifying factors. NO-bama has proven nothing and done nothing, save being educated as a Harvard lawyer. 
so what the hell does that prove??

i will tell you what i have seen from NO-bama and that is piss poor judgement as to his friends and political allies and those that have outwardly supported him with attacks on whites and patriots.....and any American, *well most proud Americans*, take exception to that behavior.

it is your right to support this behavior.....*i choose not to..*


----------



## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> Interestingly enough, I recently returned from a meeting in Phoenix. I was amazed at how many people in Phoenix dislike McCain and cringe at the idea of him being President. Many of these people allege that McCain was born into money and has not held a real job in his life. He has served in the military, but beyond that, they question how familiar McCain is with the average citizen.


Here we go again (he was born into money and not held a job) and Obama has? I guess in your liberal minds military service does not count. By the way did McGovern carry his home state of SD? How about another of your liberal heroes Algore did he carry Tennessee? :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

g/o said:


> > Interestingly enough, I recently returned from a meeting in Phoenix. I was amazed at how many people in Phoenix dislike McCain and cringe at the idea of him being President. Many of these people allege that McCain was born into money and has not held a real job in his life. He has served in the military, but beyond that, they question how familiar McCain is with the average citizen.
> 
> 
> Here we go again (he was born into money and not held a job) and Obama has? I guess in your liberal minds military service does not count. By the way did McGovern carry his home state of SD? How about another of your liberal heroes Algore did he carry Tennessee? :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


Good point g/o. Do you think No-bama will carry his home state. Reading some of the articles from his home state of Illinois doesn't make him sound too good.

If I could type I wouldn't have to edit!


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'll have to say I don't think a pacifist should ever be commander in chief. They may be willing to go to war if all else fails, but I think a pacifist would not know where the line was at as far as being to late. When would they use military force, after half our military and infrastructure was destroyed? I also think that a leader openly pacifist destroys the moral of the military. They think a pacifist does not respect or appreciate their sacrifice for our country. 
If we had no enemies a pacifist would be ok. He would have to be one that wouldn't tax the working into poverty to give to the lazy. Also, if a minority is on the verge of the presidency I don't think we need affirmative action anymore. Not that we ever did, it was racist and sexist.


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

last night I heard Bob Beckel who certainly is no friend of the right make a public recommendation to Clark. "Clark just shut up." "You don't win when you challenge McCain's service to this country". Yes Clark is an embarrassment, especially to the Democrats, our country and our service people. He should take Beckel's advice and just shut up.

What riches was McCain born into? I thought his father as well as his grandfather were retired admirals. I also don't understand why someone would think military service is not a real job.


----------



## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Here is a follow story on Clark's comments on McCain's qualifications to be President: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080702/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_clark

I like this quote from Clark:


> "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," he added at the time.


I couldn't agree more. The President is more than just the commander in chief, and we need to look at the sum of a person's qualities and qualifications.


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> we need to look at the sum of a person's qualities and qualifications.


If one honestly and truly believed that, then there is no way one with a straight face one could say Obama could stand next to McCain with quality and certainly not qualifications. What qualifications does Obama have? None, that's what. McCain has been on the Armed Service committee forever, has broke bread with most leaders of the world, flew 23 missions over North Vietnam, was held prisoner for 5 and 1/2 years where he kept his fellow prisoners together and most likely saved some of their lives and refused to abandon them when offered early release. Then along comes Clark who's toughest job was to sit in a air conditioned room and plan bomb drops the next day from 30,000 feet, and you like his stupid remarks? Even Obama is telling the fool to shut up and get lost.

Yes, please do take a good look at qualities and qualifications. A real honest look. One of the two has zero qualifications and it ain't McCain.


----------



## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

BigDaddy said:


> I like this quote from Clark:
> 
> 
> > "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president," he added at the time.


I have heard John McCain himself make pretty much that exact type of statement (speaking of his experience) many times over the years. John McCain does not glorify his falling from the sky.

That statement only sounds good to those who do not know McCain and have not paid attention to him over the years ... If a guy like John Kerry is viewed as a Vietnam war hero by some ... McCain is in a league of his own in that regard.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

It's funny that the Obama camp is telling people to keep quiet. I recently heard that Clarks was being handled by the Obama camp. Slick setting the whole thing up and pretending to have nothing to do with it. They were talking about it on Fox last night. Not as slick as the Clintons though. It would have taken us months to catch on to them. Some still have not. 
Oh, no FOX. There is a reason FOX is stomping the competition. As they say, fair and balanced, and the American people trust them more than the liberal run media. If you can't see that it means your way to far left to see it.


----------



## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

How many years has McCain been in the senate? I think it's more than two. Examine Apples for apples and McCain is way more qualified to do Obama's job than Obama is.


----------



## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

Swift, I think that half of Obama's senate time/history is running for president :eyeroll:


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Also, there is little to show for the small amount of time he was there. I think the only thing that got him to this point is the guilty conscience of white America. He certainly has done little to get where he is at. I mean president, come on. Reverse discrimination is running rampant with liberals, and no one has the guts to speak the truth. If this is a best man win contest Obama is out in the cold period. This should be a color blind election, anything less is racist.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I admire John McCain for his character because of his POW ststus.But it doesn't qualify him to lead the country.In fact from what I understand McCain didn't lead anyone when he was in the service.And he graduated from near the bottom of his class at the academy.

Point is......Clarke is correct in what he said.But why even bring it up since most people don't like the attack on a POW.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Being a POW doesn't make him exempt from criticism in my book. Are the thousands of other fellows less deserving because they didn't get caught. 
I don't like McCain. I think his is a two faced hypocrite, but we are better off with him than Obama. I sincerely think if Obama was white we would never have heard of him. I think the democrats think they found a gem and no one dares say anything against him. I will. Because of the church he attended I think he and his wife are racist. Even worse they are extreme liberal. 
His voting record, his stand on taxes, his naivety should all disqualify him. I'm for ditching them all and starting over. We couldn't do much worse than the two we have. McCain is near worthless, and Obama is worse than worthless.

As far as the Clark comments: We have seen him get into the fray in the past to help a liberal. He is more loyal to the democratic party than his country, and that's the problem. In the past I thought I owed some loyalty to the democratic party, then the republican party, and now I realise I don't owe them any loyalty what so ever.


----------



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

oh yeah, NO-bama was a community organizer in Chicago on the southside (black neighborhoods) but now lives in a 1.6 million dollar restored plantation home far, far from his poor brothers.

from community organizer to Presidential candidate...holy ****, more change!


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

hunter9494 said:


> oh yeah, NO-bama was a community organizer in Chicago on the southside (black neighborhoods) but now lives in a 1.6 million dollar restored plantation home far, far from his poor brothers.
> 
> from community organizer to Presidential candidate...holy &$#*, more change!


So how much money did McCain have before he fell in with the beer heiress?????


----------



## cwoparson (Aug 23, 2007)

> McCain and his wife have a *prenuptial agreement* keeping their finances separate; he reported having between $16,000 and $60,000 in a bank account and money market fund, his only personal assets listed.
> 
> http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/20 ... closu.html


The only money McCain personally has or ever had was/is his senate pay, social security, and VA disability pay. It was only a few months ago he was seen carrying his own baggage and buying second class tickets at airlines during the primaries. Don't know who keeps putting out all the silver spoon stuff he was supposedly born into. McCain has never had money as far as I know.


----------



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

ken, you always seem to miss the point, maybe intentionally?

NO-bama has *NO significant experience*, much less any kind of track record of success in "reaching across the isle" as he claims to be able to do, when McCain has been doing it for years.

and if it were not for David Axlerod, his campaign would not be anywhere near as successful as it has been to this point. the man is a great speaker with a teleprompter, uses soaring rhetoric and steals phrases from past politicians and is quite the showman and has great stage presence.

if that is all you need to bite on "change", then watch him set the hook and be prepared to be reeled in......but don't depend on "catch-and-release".


----------



## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> So how much money did McCain have before he fell in with the beer heiress?????


You sure have a problem with people with money Ken, :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Here ya go Kenny you'll like this, and he is worth every penny :lol:



> NEW YORK (AP) - Approaching his 20th anniversary as talk radio's most dominant force, Rush Limbaugh has signed a lucrative new deal with Premiere Radio Networks that will keep him on the air until 2016.
> 
> Premiere wouldn't disclose details on Wednesday, but Limbaugh told The New York Times in an article to be published Sunday that he would be getting a nine-figure signing bonus and would make about $38 million a year.
> 
> ...


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I don't listen to that clown so why should I care what he says?

Evidently you didn't read the entire thread.I didn't bring up the money angle....Hunter did.......

"oh yeah, NO-bama was a community organizer in Chicago on the southside (black neighborhoods) but now lives in a 1.6 million dollar restored plantation home far, far from his poor brothers."

So it's not Ok to ask about McCant's finances when someone else questions O Bama's??? :eyeroll:

I didn't say McCant's was born with money did I????I don't know about the rest of you,but for 35 years my wife and I have shared finances.McCant's don't?????Yeah right.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I don't know about the rest of you,but for 35 years my wife and I have shared finances.McCant's don't?????Yeah right.


Ya, same here Ken. I understand what your saying, and I don't believe that they don't share a lot of money. I think I get the point hunter is making too. Maybe not, but this is the way I see it. It's odd that a guy so concerned about the poor black neighborhoods could make so much money off them that he can live in a 1.6 million dollar home. It's also odd that he moved out of the neighborhoods he is so concerned about. It would appear he loves them like a tick loves a dog.


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

KEN W said:


> I don't know about the rest of you,but for 35 years my wife and I have shared finances.McCant's don't?????Yeah right.


I have quite a few friends in Phoenix that have separate bank accounts from their spouse. It is not uncommon to see that down there. They split up the bills and to each their own spending money remains. It is not common to see here and I can only think of one person here that I know that does that.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

you may be right Plainsman.....but don't we encourage people to blend in and move out of poverrty???Isn't that one of the biggest complaints about Reservations???When I lived up there I heard all the time......why don't those people move off of the Rezz and get jobs and live like the rest of us.It seems like we encourage Blacks,Native Americans,Mexicans etc to move out......now when one does.....critisize him for doing it????


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

The Democrats will attack what they know to be the strengths of their opponent, I cannot stand John McCain but if you read his military service record and are not impressed you are not a man of reason.

Weasley Clark was fired by Clinton :eyeroll: the idea that his opinion matters to anyone is kind of funny.

READ THIS CAREFULLY AND CONSIDER HOW STUPID SOMEONE HAS TO BE TO CRITICIZE HIM BASED ON HIS MILITARY CREDENTIALS :eyeroll:

The following is from WIKiPEDIA

*McCain requested a combat assignment*,[23] and in December 1966 was assigned to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal flying A-4 Skyhawks.[24][25] McCain's combat duty began when he was 30 years old. In summer 1967, Forrestal was assigned to a bombing campaign during the Vietnam War.[12][26] McCain and his fellow pilots were frustrated by micromanagement from Washington,[27] and he would later write that "In all candor, we thought our civilian commanders were complete idiots who didn't have the least notion of what it took to win the war."[26]

By then a lieutenant commander, McCain was almost killed on July 29, 1967 when he was near the center of the Forrestal fire. He escaped from his burning jet and was trying to help another pilot escape when a bomb exploded;[28] McCain was struck in the legs and chest by fragments.[29] The ensuing fire killed 134 sailors and took 24 hours to control.[30][31] With the Forrestal out of commission, McCain volunteered for assignment with the USS Oriskany.[32]

John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his twenty-third bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.[33][34] McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned, when he parachuted into Trúc Bạch Lake in Hanoi.[33] *After he regained consciousness, a crowd attacked him, crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him;* 

[33] he was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".[34]

McCain being pulled from Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi and becoming a POW[35] on October 26, 1967.Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, instead beating and interrogating him to get information.[36] Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care[36] and announce his capture. His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of The New York Times[37] and The Washington Post.[38]

McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care.[33] Now having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[33] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[39] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week.[40] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[41]

In mid-1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and McCain was offered early release.[42] The North Vietnamese wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes,[43] and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[42] *McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[33]*

*In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain.[44] McCain was subjected to repeated beatings and rope bindings, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[44] After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession".[33] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable*,[45] but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[46]

*His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[47] He subsequently received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.[*48] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements, with many enduring even worse treatment than McCain.[49]

Interview with McCain on April 24, 1973, after his return home.McCain refused to meet with various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory.[50] From late 1969 on, treatment of McCain and many of the other POWs became more tolerable,[51] while McCain continued to be an active resister against the camp authorities.[52] McCain and other prisoners cheered the B-52-led U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972 as a forceful measure to push North Vietnam to terms.[46][53]

Altogether, McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. He was finally released from captivity on March 14, 1973.[54] McCain's return to the United States reunited him with his wife and family. His wife Carol had suffered her own crippling ordeal during his captivity, due to an automobile accident in December 1969.[55] As a returned POW, McCain became a celebrity of sorts.[55]

McCain underwent treatment for his injuries, including months of grueling physical therapy,[56] and attended the National War College in Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. during 1973-1974.[16][55] Having been rehabilitated, by late 1974, McCain had his flight status reinstated,[55] and in 1976 he became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida.[55][57] He turned around an undistinguished unit and won the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation.[56] During this period in Florida, McCain had extramarital affairs, the McCains' marriage began to falter, and he would later accept blame.[58][59]

McCain served as the Navy's liaison to the U.S. Senate, beginning in 1977.[60] He would later say it represented "[my] real entry into the world of politics and the beginning of my second career as a public servant".[55] McCain played a key behind-the-scenes role in gaining congressional financing for a new supercarrier against the wishes of the Carter administration.[56][61]

In April of 1979,[56] McCain met and began a courtship with Cindy Lou Hensley, a teacher from Phoenix, Arizona, the only child of the founder of Hensley & Co.[59] He and his wife Carol then permanently separated later in 1979,[56][62][63] and she accepted a divorce in February of 1980,[56] effective in April of 1980.[20] The settlement included two houses, and financial support for her ongoing medical treatments for injuries resulting from the 1969 car accident; they would remain on good terms.[59] McCain and Hensley were married on May 17, 1980 with Republican Senator and future Secretary of Defense William Cohen serving as best man, and Democratic Senator Gary Hart was a groomsman.[59][12] John and Cindy McCain entered into a prenuptial agreement that keeps most of her family's assets under her name;[64] they would always keep their finances apart and file separate income tax returns.[64]

McCain decided to leave the Navy. He was unlikely to ever make full admiral, as he had poor annual physicals and had been given no major sea command.[65] In early 1981, he was told he would be made rear admiral; he declined the prospect, as he already made plans to run for Congress and said he could "do more good there."[66]

McCain retired from the Navy on April 1, 1981[67] as a captain.[68] He was designated as disabled and awarded a disability pension.[69] Upon leaving the military, he moved to Arizona. *His seventeen military awards and decorations include the Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star and Navy Commendation Medal, and are for actions before, during, and after his time as a POW*.[68]


----------



## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> READ THIS CAREFULLY AND CONSIDER HOW STUPID SOMEONE HAS TO BE TO CRITICIZE HIM BASED ON HIS MILITARY CREDENTIALS


Bob:

Again, nobody has criticized McCain's military credentials. Instead, people have simply said that his military credentials alone don't qualify him to be President.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

It was a foolish attempt IMO by Weasley to make light of his service record because they realize that the Islamist terrorist issue is big on the minds of all knowlegdeable people in our country.

And on the issue of national defense McCain is clearly and correctly percieved as much more experienced than Obama.

Look I dont like McCain so I'm not biased about him but I am just saying its obvious the Dems need to find another strategy because this ones a definite loser for Obama.

And I've never seen McCain claim his miltary service was "the" reason for him to be elected. McCains got alot of baggage the Dems should look else where to criticize him.

The Dems bought into Obama too early now they have a inexperienced unqualified guy that they have to figure out how to use as a puppet. Hillary would of been a much better candidate and president than Obama.

Its interesting to watch :beer:


----------



## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

Im gonna be quick and to the point.

McCains strong points.

1 Honorable Military Career
2 Over 25 years of political experience as both a senator and a congressman
3 Years of documentable proof of a push for a more fiscally responsible government.
4 A wife who is actually proud of her country, who also works very hard at improving the way of life for many less fortunate individuals

Obama "Stong" points
1 Lawyer, married to a Lawyer
2 One Year as a Senator (I dont include the year hes been on the campaign trail, although he only voted present most of the time anyway, maybe we should give him the 2nd?)
3 Apparently hes an incredibly fast learner. (Two years ago he said there would be no chance of him running on a presidential ticket in 2008, as he would NOT have the experience to lead this country)
4 IS a remarkable visionary. Through the speeches I've heard, I've come to realize America will FINALLY be a GREAT country to live in as soon as we elect him and let him change it.

Four for four, sarcasm aside, what ACTUAL qualifications does Obama have that McCain doesnt have? Im not talking political views here, but seriously What has he done in his life that tells you he can handle the stress of the presidency?


----------



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

i will help you with that, other than being a community organzier on the southside of Chicago, *with the sole purpose of gaining political recognition, nothing....not a damn thing worthy of note!*


----------



## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> i will help you with that, other than being a community organzier on the southside of Chicago, with the sole purpose of gaining political recognition, nothing....not a damn thing worthy of note!


As with most things, hunter9494, you are wrong. You started this thread by being angry about Clark criticising McCain's qualifications for being commander in chief. Unlike you, I look for a person most qualified to be president, one responsbility of which is to be commander in chief.

So, what qualifications are needed for a person to be a good president? I like the list compiled by Fred Greenstein in his book, The Presidential Difference: Leadership Style from FDR to George W. Bush. After studying the administrations of all modern presidents, Greenstein lists the following qualities as being most important:

1. Being an effective communicator
2. Organizational capacity
3. Political skill
4. Vision
5. Cognitive style
6. Emotional intelligence

These are discussed briefly here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2004/leadership/greenstein.html.

This makes sense. A president is essentially a CEO, meaning the you are looking for a person to develop a vision, communicate that vision to the populace, gain buy-in and support from others, and know how to work effectively with others to get things done.

Tell me, where does Obama lack in this regard? He is an excellent communicator, he shows emotional intelligence, his cognitive skills are excellent, and he demonstrates a vision for how this country could be better. His only knock is a lack of political experience. However, any good president surrounds himself with good people. A good chief of staff will help immensly.

I ask you to be objective and tell me if I am wrong. Also, tell me how John McCain has demonstrated to you that he has vision, that he can communicate effectively, that he has political skill, cognitive ability, or emotional intelligence.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think Fred Greenstein failed on intelligence, and certainly character. Let me go at this backwards because number six shows a total lack of understanding.
6. Emotional intelligence: To me this is a contradiction in terms. You either are run by emotion or intelligence. Sure we all get emotional at times, but that's what got the democrats a looser for presidential nominee. If they had been wiser and more intelligent they would have picked Hillary, or someone not so extreme left. A person can be emotional and intelligent, but the words together simply sound like a liberal throwing around psychobable. I prefer intelligence every time, but liberals will tell me I am cold. Save the emotion for your loved ones, it has no place in running a country.

5. Cognitive style: Again the guy is going off the psychobable deep end. Cognative is ones reasoning ability. Style has nothing to do with it. It's just a liberal trying to throw touchy feeling into intelligence.

4. Vision. Good I agree that is important.

3. Political skill: I would prefer logically persuasive. I don't like politicians and would rather have a person speak to me of what they believe is a correct action. Forget the back door political arm twisting. That's how Washington has lost the respect of the American people.

2. Organizational skill: Again I agree, but perhaps not in the same order.

1. Being an effective communicator: Was this book written specifically for Obama. He is a skilled orator as long as he has a teleprompter. I have seen him without it, and without it Bush puts him to shame. An effective communicator gets his point across. I have seen few politicians in Washington who do not have that ability. The only difference is Obama does it in a emotional way that appeals to the touchy feely, not the type of people that prefer logic. Emotional orator would be very low to worthless on my list.

My list:
1. Character
2. Character
3. Character
4. Pro people, not pro minority, pro gay, pro women, pro white, pro anything. If your for one your against the others. I don't want a president categorizing people. 
5. Understand people and motivations when dealing with other world leaders. Know when diplomacy will work and when force must be used.
6. A good understanding of economics on a national scale and how we fit into the world.
7. The brains to surround himself with people more intelligent than himself. People who understand science and what is real environmental concerns and what is political fodder. 
8. And like you say vision and foresight. 
There are so many things a person can not list them all. Also, it's hard to put them in any order because they are all so important. The most important thing today may be different tomorrow.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

1. Being an effective communicator 
2. Organizational capacity 
3. Political skill 
4. Vision 
5. Cognitive style 
6. Emotional intelligence

Those sound like Ronald Reagan.Of course he was a governor but did being an actor qualify him????


----------



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

many skills listed make sense, many do not. my short list:

1. *being pragmatic. *
do decisions or policies proposed work in the short term as well as in the long run? at what cost (real, NOT just political) ? to whom?

2. *forcing change on folks because it fits HIS vision.*
vision can be dangerous. is it his alone? is there a real mandate for the changes proposed? when there is a majority in the congress on your side, is this your carte blanche for a mandated change?

3. *realistic view of the world and its dangerous leaders.*
with no experience in negotiating with the world's toughest, most dangerous leaders, will he cling to his own untested perceptions?
at what cost? is the goal of disarming the world from all nukes realistic or giving up our nukes to set an example for the world (yes he professes this idea)? when was the last time we successfully negotiated anything from a weakened position?

4. *fiscal responsibility.*
in my opinion, neither candidate has this quality. record deficits and the decline of the dollar have us in a much more *dangerous position *than most people think. how does the next President justify huge expenditures, whether in the form of tax breaks or huge unprecedented entitlement programs.


----------



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

KEN W said:


> 1. Being an effective communicator
> 2. Organizational capacity
> *NO-bama openly admited early in his campaign, he was not good at this.* ..oh well.
> 
> ...


----------

