# Decisions, Decisions: 270, 30-06, 300 WSM



## blue9

OK. First rifle - been borrowing for way too long - .243s and 7 mm Rem Mag. Mostly deer hunting for now; bigger game around the corner. Need one rifle to serve all purposes; I'll add to the pile in years to come.

So, which one should it be - the 270, 270 WSM, 30-06 or 300 WSM? Obviously, the short magnums in each caliber will give me faster, flatter bullets (did all the ballistics checks with comparable ammo). But is it worth the xtra recoil - especially in the 300 WSM? Should a trajectory difference of 1.2 inches at 300 yards matter to me - a relative newbie - or that I may get another 250 fps muzzle velocity with a magnum in the same caliber?

Am I biting off more than I can chew with the 300 WSM? I've gotten comments about the 300 WSM like "it recoils like a Tyson punch." Wouldn't know - never hit by Tyson or spent any quality time with it.

The 30-06 generally sounds right for me, but am being lured with the xtra horsepower and speed of the 300 WSM. Should I play it smart and save the 300 WSM for later?

Or should I split the difference and go with the 270 WSM?

Appreciate the thoughts


----------



## Invector

Get the 300 wsm. It will out perform the other rounds you had listed. The fact is it has not much on the 300 win mag. About 100 fps and 100 flbs energy is all. It is true that the 270 wsm has just a bit flatter trajectory then the 300 does only with a smaller grain bullet. If you look at a 150 grain in both a 300 and 270 wsm you will see the 300 pushes that bullet faster, harder, and flatter. If I was going to get another gun that could be used for both deer and larger game I would look at the 270 wsm. It shoots similar to that of the 300 win mag (I own one) and would recoil a bit less. Though if you claculate recoil the 300 wsm come out with more recoil then the 300 win mag does. So for the most part the short mags have a bit more kick then the long mags. And if you are worried about getting now or later, get now. The 30-06 is a good gun but the 270 will out do it. The other fact is the 270 has some really good rounds now made for it. And you can find and shoot rounds made for both deer and elk sized game. Some readings I have done suggests the 270 wsm to be equal to a whetherby 270. Though I always look for the better guy in ammo prices and over all bullet performance. So if your looking for a really good gun with some really good performance with out the amount of recoil get the 270 wsm. If recoil is not a problem for you then get a 300 win mag or the 300 wsm.


----------



## bwnelson

All things being equal with the gun selection ... For a one gun guy that is hunting deer now and maybe hunt something bigger later I'd go with a 280 Remington if you handload or a 270 Winchester if you don't.

A 30-06 is extremely practical for most all big game hunting as well but recoils a little more and generally isn't as flat as the 270/280 rounds. No additional practical killing power on deer sized game. Arguable whether it matters on elk or moose. I'd shoot a 270 or 280 with proper bullets at either without a second thought.

Ammo for the short mags will be more expensive than the standard rounds and that may affect how much you practice with them.

When I got into a new rifle a couple years ago, I chose a 280 because I was/am a horrible shot with a rifle. Since 280's are underloaded by the factory I knew I had to handload to get better performance. Handloading led to more range time (and cheaper costs per shot - tho the equipment became an expensive hobby, ok obsession) the range time (practice) and accompanying study of ballistics has made me a much better shooter. My ammo works better than factory stuff in my rifles.

Of course the benefits of handloading come with any cartridge, but I do like 7mm bullets for some reason.


----------



## SDHandgunner

To me the key would be finding the proper bullets for the game intended. There is more to look at and tihnk about than just bullet weight and muzzle velocity.

Comparing a 150gr. .270 Caliber Bullet to a 150gr. 30 Caliber Bullet is like comparing apples to oranges. Both have vastly different sectional densities and are designed for different critters for the most part. A 150gr. .270 Caliber Bullet has a sectional density of .279 (ratio of a bullets caliber vs a bullets weight), while a 150gr. .30 Caliber Bullet has a sectional density of .226. A .30 Caliber 180gr. Bullet has a sectional density of .271.

If you want to compare bullets of like sectional density a 130gr. .270 Caliber Bullet and a 165gr. .30 Caliber Bullet have very similar sectional densities (.242 vs .248), and are considered by a lot of people the proper sectional density for critters the size of Whitetail or Mule Deer. As the game increases in size and bone structure then so does sectional density (and also bullet construction / type).

In my opinion (and this is just that, my opinion) for your FIRST Rifle I think you should pick a rifle that has lots of different factory ammo available, especially if you do not handload which I am assuming you do not since you do not have a rifle yet. I also think the rifle should be ecconimical to shoot so you can shoot lots and lots of rounds in practicing and becoming totally familiar with your new prized possession.

To me that would be the .30-06. Yes a .270 Winchester with a streamlined 130gr. Bullet will shot a touch flatter than a typical 150gr. Bullet out of a .30-06 (as will the magnums). I am not sure about you but I don't think I can shoot well enough under field shooting / hunting conditions to tell the difference in trajectory between the two.

However with the .30-06 you'll be able to find ammo anywhere that sells ammo, and while .270 ammo will be similar in price either of these will be much less costly to feed than a Magnum and also the Short Magnums. The grand old .30-06 hasn't been around for 100 years and stood the test of time because it was not a good cartridge. Quite the contrary and the .30-06 while not flashy or the latest greatest thing out there has been killing critters for years and with the wide variety of ammo available for it should be suitable for anything you'll likely encounter.

A lot of these same things can be said for the .270, but I feel the .30-06 offers better energy levels and bullet selection for critters larger than Deer sized game.

Good luck with your quest.

Larry


----------



## Csquared

I promise you no deer will ever tell the difference in any of those cartridges. I find it interesting how much time is spent thinking and talking about the perfect deer rifle, almost like killing a deer is akin to splitting an atom.

I was one who spent way too much time thinking about that....years ago. Let me put it this way. I probably bought 20 or 30 rifles before I owned a .30/06. I was convinced that those extra few inches of trajectory at extreme ranges offered by the necked down offspring of the '06 case and by the magnums meant something, but then I discovered what most other rifle guys already knew. The .30/06 is popular because it works!

Does that mean I only shoot one rifle now? Heck no! In fact my '06 is usually a back-up rifle, but point is if you only want to buy one rifle for big game hunting I think the old standard has to get serious consideration.

If the 300wsm is an option you must not be afraid of recoil, otherwise I would suggest a smaller bullet dia. (nothing kills deer "deader" than a .25/06) but since you want to hunt everything you won't be sorry with the .30/06.

Do your homework before you buy a wsm. I do not believe the hype associated with them. Too old fashioned, I guess. Also, if you are going to study balistics, buy a chronograph. The first thing you'll learn is that the ammo you buy almost NEVER shoots as fast as they say. Which, in turn, tells you the trajectory numbers they provide are also suspect.

Whatever you buy, shoot it ALOT. That's WAY more important than what's stamped on the side of the barrel.

Good luck!


----------



## clampdaddy

I'd say that for your first rifle you should get something thats cheap to shoot so either the 270 or the '06. You wont spend much time practiceing at thirty plus dollars a box for the short mags. On the other hand, if you reload or don't mind spending the extra money, I'd get a 270WSM. I love mine. It kicks about the same as my 30-06s but shoots quite a bit flatter. I shot my first hog with it recently and was really impressed with the performance of the little 130gr ballistic silvertip. The 300 and 7mm short mags look good in winchester advertizements but a quick look in a reloading guide will show that the longer mags can easily turn out more speed than thier new siblings. Thats why I picked the 270 WSM. It's faster than a standard 270 win and will equal the 270 weatherby (with 130s and 140s) without the cost of weatherby ammo. I think that if you're leaning tward a 300 mag you should skip the short mag and get a regular ol' 300 win mag.


----------



## Plainsman

clampdaddy, I agree with you on the short mag and standard 300 Winchester Mag. I have both and a 180 gr comes out of my short mag at 2940 fps, and out of my 300 Win at 3200 fps. 
My 300 Win is a heavy barrel Sendero, and my 300 WSM is my carry rifle in Browning Stainless Stalker. 26 inch barrel on the Win also gives it an advantage over the 23 inch barrel on the short mag.


----------



## Csquared

Clampdaddy and Plainsman, I'm getting to like you guys more and more all the time. It's refreshing to see others are able to sift the bs out of the wsm hype. How many people care about SAAMI pressure specs? It's certainly not rocket science to generate similar velocities with less powder when you're not bound by similar pressure restraints.


----------



## Invector

Csquared said:


> Clampdaddy and Plainsman, I'm getting to like you guys more and more all the time. It's refreshing to see others are able to sift the bs out of the wsm hype. How many people care about SAAMI pressure specs? It's certainly not rocket science to generate similar velocities with less powder when you're not bound by similar pressure restraints.


This is very true. One of the determining factors about a gun is how is it going to work here and now with what ammo I buy for it. I dont reload but have been looking at it. Though the .300 and any factory ammo works wonders on about any game out there. For some of the top of the line ammo for the 300 dont be afraid to pay $40 for it...though they are still cheaper then Whetherby ammo...but you can pick up ammo for $17 that would kill a deer just as easily as the $40 box. I was looking at getting one of the smaller wssm here a while ago but did not get it. The lack of ammo for it turned me off and so did the price. Now the ammo I go with runs me $20 or in that range. When looking at the old 30-06 you find the samething...more choices then you can handle. But theres a roudn out there for everyone and every situation. Though the short mags are nice and have their advantages, you guys pointed out some of the flaws they do have. I though find the 270 wsm to be one of the better cals out there. There is just somthing about the numbers that I like, but same thing about the 7mm and some of the RUM's out there. I guess I could have a million guns though...ok back to my thoughts here. When looking at the short mags one needs to keep and open mind and consider all the other cals that are out there that can do about the samethings. I will close in saying I have seen a deer killed a 270, 270 wsm, and my .300. The 270 wsm was more impressive then the 270 was. Dont know if it was the angle or bullet placement or who shot it but I liked it. It did not compair to the .300 but still. :beer:


----------



## Sasha and Abby

Get a classic .270 ... There is no need to reinvent the wheel and the WSM and WSSM calibers are nothing more than a fad that will be hard to find ammo fo in 10 years.

They are not that much better than the originals they were derived from. They are hard to find ammo for too...


----------



## Csquared

Invector, shooting factory loads is like having sex with a condom......it's fun, but you're not getting the full enjoyment! Find someone in your area that is experienced and willing to help you get started (I'm NOT talking about sex anymore!) and start handloading. Then you can pick a cartridge based on actual potential instead of optimistic, factory stated specs. MOST factory ammo is loaded to ridiculously low chamber pressures, for obvious reasons, so my advice to anyone is to HANDLOAD!!!


----------



## Plainsman

I like short fat cases for uniform powder burn, so I hope they are not gone in ten years. Unfortunately it could happen. They never did come out with what I would have liked, a 6.5mmWSM. The rifle I have my 300WSM in is light and does not show the accuracy potential of the cartridge. Of course ringing that last bit of accuracy out doesn't make any difference in a hunting rifle anyway. 
I will admit I purchased my 300WSM more out of curiosity than need. If need entered the equation we would be missing many calibers. Short actions are nice, but I don't get as excited about them as some do. If you reload the 300WSM falls between the 30-06 and the 300 Win mag. I guess it is much the same as a 30-06 Ackley improved. There really isn't enough difference to justify the caliber, unless you want the short action for cycling the bolt, and an ounce or two off the weight. 
I have heard a hundred times how short actions flex less, so are inherently more accurate, but I guess I can't shoot well enough to tell the difference. Perhaps it is because I have a standard old 300 Winchester Mag that shoots better than most I hear about. It sure outshoots my 300WSM. My short mag will shoot ½ inch at 100 yards, but is very picky about bullets and powder. Very picky. 
I don't think a magnum is required unless your going for elk or moose often, or are going to reach beyond 500 yards for deer. Elk to 300 yards, deer to 500 yards a 308, 270, 30-06, and many others will do the job as well as most any other caliber. If your not going to exceed these parameters why take the recoil punishment. It is easier to learn to shoot moderate calibers very accurately.


----------



## Ron Gilmore

I will say this about the choice of calibers, all will kill deer cleanly if you do your job. All will kill elk,black bear or moose if you do your job. That being said, consider if you are going to reload, because if you are not planing on investing is a reloader, to be able to do your job you should buy a caliber that has affordable ammo to learn how to do your job with your rifle.

Case in point, Fed classic rounds in a 270 or 06 run $8-12.00 a box. 270WSM or 300WSM in Fed classics run around $26-33.00 a box. Step up to the premium loads like Fusion or the Win rounds and you see the shells push up into the $40.00+ a box!!!!!!!

Most every gun I have seen can with standard factory ammo be more than accurate enough to harvest animals out to 300 yards. But the people behind the gun are not! So worrying about a 1/2 MOA on a round is not the thing to concern oneself with.

Given a choice and shooting factory ammo, I would rather invest $200.00 more in optics on the gun than in shells learning to shoot the gun and to stay proficient with it. So my choice would be to agree with your take that the 06 is the best choice if you are planning on shooting factory ammo.

Nothing against any one round, but for larger animals like elk, the 06 has more punch and better bullet selections in factory ammo than the .270. The others have from what I have seen very limited bullet selections in factory ammo!


----------



## clampdaddy

Csquared said:


> shooting factory loads is like having sex with a condom......it's fun, but you're not getting the full enjoyment!


Couldn't have said it any better myself! The hog I busted last weekend was the first game animal in a long time that I didn't take with one of my own loads. It was still pretty exiteing because it was my first hog but there's something different about takeing game with ammo you've taken the time to put together yourself.


----------



## Csquared

Plainsman, I believe that is the most honest and accurate assessment on the 300WSM I've ever seen in print.

Thank you!


----------



## blue9

Guys, thanks a bunch for your replies. Definitely helps my thought process ...


----------



## 1fastskeeter

I think my 270 kicks more than my 300 wsm. One thing I found out early is get a caliber your not afraid of the recoil and your shots will be way more accurate. Good luck shopping.


----------



## caribukiller

get a 280 30-06 or 270 they'll be your best choise


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

I have a 270 WSM in a kimber Montana, and my Dad has the matching 300 WSM. I would say go with the 270 plenty of horsepower. They are an awsome caliber. The 300 kicks alot more. 
You will always be able to reload the shell, so finding ammo will never be a problem. 
I Might even be bold enough to step out an a limb and say the WSM's will take over the regular rounds. They are the new thing and in ten years they will still be around. I say go with the 270 WSM they shoot factory ammo really well and are extremly reliable.


----------



## Csquared

Hope you're wearing your safety belt, Pope and Young. That's a mighty thin branch you're climbing on!


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

I know i am on thin ice, but they are faster flater, and cleaner burning. FROM THE FACTORY. I have a few guns that i have put a bunch of money into, to make into tack drivers, and i went out and bought this one, and from the factory it is a tack driver. Just my thoughts, i know manypeople won't agree with me, I just think this gun would suit him well.

My 2 CENTS.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

I know i am on thin ice, but they are faster flater, and cleaner burning. FROM THE FACTORY. I have a few guns that i have put a bunch of money into, to make into tack drivers, and i went out and bought this one, and from the factory it is a tack driver. Just my thoughts, i know manypeople won't agree with me, I just think this gun would suit him well.

My 2 CENTS.


----------



## jkrebsms

I own both a Browning A-bolt .30-06 and a .300 WSM...would not trade either of them for any other caliber. I hunt small white tails in southern Mississippi and could easily hunt them with the smaller .20 calibers. I simply prefer the .30 caliber. Both rifles are very accurate. However, I prefer carrying the .300 WSM to the hunts. The .30-06 has a firm moderate kick and the short mag is moderate to semi-heavy in the recoil department.

If you are looking to spend more time at the range than in the woods, but elk is on the horizon, I would say go w/a .270 WSM. If hunting is the main objective and deer and elk are the targets, then I have to recommend the .300 WSM. If recoil is of grave concern, I would recommend shooting one before making your decision.


----------



## MRN

I actually agree with Gilmore - go vanilla and spend the extra on upgraded optics and practice. The quality of the optics will make a lot more difference than any small difference between calibres. I sure wouldn't pay more for one of the new calibres. There is no best, just different.

My other consideration was matching what my hunting buddy was shooting - then I could go out with my magazine filled and then bum shells if I needed more.... and I wouldn't have to listen to "My calibre is better than your calibre." But, if you like that sort of thing, then get the latest whiz-bang magic calibre, whatever it is this month.

M.


----------



## wvdeerhunter909

I have a 300 wsm and the recoil on them is not bad at all! One of my buddies has a 270 wsm and i think the recoil is bout the same with it.


----------



## Mud15

I seen you put .270 and im just like you well im only 19 and dont have to much money and already got 3 guns and no rifle...but anyways ive been using my grandpas winchester model 70 .270 and have shot 5 deer with it so far! i shot my buck this year at 30yds as it was running towards me and amazingly the heart was shattered and all the meat was untouched! That was my closest shot with it... my farthest shot was last year at two does around 300yds dropped them both heart shots....This gun shoots very flat at good ranges. I use Winchester 130 grains and i love this caliber. Whatever works for you is what you should buy...you said you borrowed alot of guns so you should have a good idea on what you like.


----------

