# Indoctrination



## sevendogs (Sep 19, 2003)

Indoctrination versus education. Indoctrination is at the core of any religions teaching. Quoran was freely interpreted (or misinterpreted) by Osama bin Laden and his followers, but te Bible was also misinterpreted by churches, who brought to poiwer Bush and his administration. Of course, there are important differences, but basic essence of both is the same. I mean methods of thinking based on the indoctrination of crowds.
Here is proof right from the Bible that Bush went the "wrong" way:
When we say "Christianity", we have in mind Jesus Christ's teaching, don't we? And Christians must be those who obey His teaching, live every day of their life by his commandments (His teaching is His commandments, not a matter of choice: if you believe in Him, you obey His teaching; if you do not obey Him, do not call yourself "a Christian", because disobeying Him you dishonor and deny Him. As He said, those who do not obey His commandments are His enemies - see John 15:14. And let no one deceive you that Jesus loves sinners, that is, those who disobey Him; because He said, "If you keep my commandment, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in His love" - John 15:10. He came to enable us to obey the law of God and thus make us perfect. He said, "You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" - Matthew 5:48).

To accept him as your Lord is to do what he teaches.

He said: "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for ah eye and tooth for a tooth. But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil", "Repay no one evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for it is written, 'Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.' (Matthew 5:38; Romans 12:17-19). Do we, Christians of America, obey these words of Him whom we call as our Lord? No, we don't. We are full of vengeance, but we call it patriotism; we are bloodthirsty, but justify it as we are pursuing "Iraqi freedom".

"I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven&#8230;. For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." "If your enemy is hungry, feed him&#8230;. Do not be overcome by evil, but OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD" (Matthew 5:43-48; Romans 12:20-21). Do we hear what the Lord says? If we do to them what they do to us, an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth, we are not the children of God, and Christ is not the Lord and Savior of those who do such things, no matter how they call their deeds, how they justify them. Christians, who claim they know the truth and want to teach others their interpretation of the truth, are greater as the enemies of God, when they act in the same way the unbelievers and Gentiles act, because: "If you were blind, you would have no guilt; but now that you say, 'We see,' your guilt remains" (John 9:41).

When some told Jesus "of the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices", Jesus did not say, 'Go and get him!' No! He said, "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:1-5). Christians of America, do you hear these words of the Lord? It is our own sins fall on our own pate when a disaster strikes. We must repent; but instead we commit more evil - we, who want to teach other countries, other nations, pretending that we know the truth the Christ teaches. Is it not about such "Christians" the scripture says, "They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds"? (Titus 1:16).

American Christians, Jesus said, "Whatever you wish that men do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12). Do we hear what the Lord commands? Why do we need to obey this? Because what we sow, that we shall also reap (Galatians 6:7). Jesus says to us who call themselves his disciples: "Put your sword back into place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword" (Matthew 26:52). His word teaches: "We are not contending against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." Why did we start the war in Iraq, then, pretending that we do the will of God? Our weapon, our armor must be the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God (Ephesians 6:10-18). To "be able to stand against the wiles of the devil", we must do no wrong, by any reason, for "The wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality" (Colossians 3:25). It means, America will be paid back for the wrong she did to Iraqi people. They did no wrong to us, they are not responsible for 9/11. 9/11 is an unspeakably terrible thing, but, according to the word of God, it was sown by our own deeds, America. And instead of being hateful and vengeful and starting a terrible war, we must humble ourselves and repent our sins (Luke 13:5). Those in America, who begun this war and justify it as a means to protect American people, are "false prophets, who come to you in a sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits" (Matthew 7:15), so see their deeds in the Light of the Gospel of Christ and do not believe what they say.

Many a Christians of America believe a false teaching that to be saved from hell they need to trust Jesus as their Lord and Savior. We do not argue with this statement, but what does it imply? Judge for yourselves: "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord', shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21). Jesus says that he came to make the will of the Father known to God's people (John 17:3,6,26). The Sermon on the Mount and the gospels is the will of God to obey. Some are deceived believing that it is enough to say, "Lord, Lord", and do not do the will of God. "And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers" (Matthew 7:23). Read, understand, and believe the word of God, Christians of America! And "Whatever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7:12). What we sow, that shall we reap, and there is no escape from this law.

I do not want to convert our political forum into a religious forum, but the fact remains that indoctrination is an important factor in our free democratic American way of life. We deny ourselves the freedom of thinking and inquiry.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Have you heard the term &#8230;Theocracy?

America may be a lot of things to a lot of folks, but a Theocracy it isn't..

Islam by its very nature IS


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Sevendogs:

what color is the sky in your world?

You have too much time on your hands.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

Someone fell off the deep end. :withstupid:


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## sevendogs (Sep 19, 2003)

DecoyDummy said:


> Have you heard the term &#8230;Theocracy?
> 
> America may be a lot of things to a lot of folks, but a Theocracy it isn't..
> 
> Islam by its very nature IS


  It is a long way to real theocracy. However, our Government is driven by greed of its constituents mixed with ideology.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

I guess my point was simply ... as it exists and as Mohamed wrote it ... the Koran preaches there is only one power over man that power being Allah.

Beyond that it is a matter of who carries the largest stick ... and since the belief is all things happen at the will of Allah ... you don't get much second guessing coming from the choir, so to speak, within Islam.

or so it seems to me.

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side note

Quote:

"our Government is driven by greed of its constituents"

that is a relatively newer hitch-in-the-get-along ... considerably accellerated by FDR


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Allah is God isn't he??? Who cares what they name God there is only one.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

I belive in several Gods. But I dont push it on the rest of the world like so many other religons. And as far as what sevendogs wrote sounds like he laid out christianty pretty well. Face it these religons were created not by god but buy men who wished to control the masses and set them up for plunder and slaughter thats why they say turn the other cheek.
Now dont get me wrong religon is a good thing in general anything that can bring men together to work as a team is great,but when it sets them apart it is as bad as it is good.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

buckseye ... I don't think so ...

Anyone who would write a book repeatedly declaring the notion of fighting and killing "non-believers" has to be writing about a God I never heard of before ...


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Feel free to flog me if I'm wrong here.
Chritainity teaches or instills within us a conscience. Also care and concern for others that are different .
That sets Christians apart from some of the rest.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

zogman

yeap ... even a diserning attitude and a certain amount of judgement of fellow beings as appropriote ...

The thing is, I know of no other religion (other than Isalm) which declares in scripture that "doing away with non-believers" is a part of Holy Doctrine.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

DecoyDummy, I have read my bible, and there were an awful lot of unbelievers done away with, in the name of God, in that book. Burl


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

I guess I just never noticed the parts in the Bible were it tells "Christians" to kill non-believers. If it does I'm sorry I mis-spoke.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

zogman wrote:



> Feel free to flog me if I'm wrong here.
> Chritainity teaches or instills within us a conscience. Also care and concern for others that are different .
> That sets Christians apart from some of the rest.


What sets Christianity apart from other religions is the concept of grace, meaning that we gain access to heaven not through the good deeds we do, but by admitting we are sinners, asking for forgiveness, and acknowleding that our sins have already been paid for by another. This is contrary to most other religions that teach that people will gain access to heaven (or some other paradise) if they simply follow certain rules

Most major religions preach conscience and care for other people.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

BigDaddy ... true for some but not ALL Christian religions ...

Many do require Deeds since they also believe forgivness is base on a personal choice and commitment to NOT continue in deviant practices.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

DecoyDummy, what Big Daddy wrote is the essence of ALL Christian religions. If that part isn't there, it's not a Christian religion, even though it claims to follow Christ. That is in his very words. Now, not all that go to a Christian church are as Christian as they would like to believe. Deeds may be important in their rewards in heaven, but have nothing to do with getting to heaven. Deeds are not the action that results in salvation, but the evidence that repentence and acceptance of grace are sincere. There is often a very small and often indiscernable difference, but it is there.

Oh, and yes, there are instances in the Old Testament where they were told to kill all of the unbelievers. Of course, the Old Testament is not Christian, is it? Even so, the action of a Christian to protect those in need, even if it results in the death of another, is not to be judged by us, or you.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

Steve ... actually judgment in those cases happen daily ...

Seems most here miss the point ...

Point being, I know of no Christian religion which teaches members to go Kill non-believers ... and in fact brainwashes the poorest among them to believe and buy into the notion that they will be held high in the eyes of Allah if they Die and kill many non-believers with them (Martyr) ...

Is there a Christian counterpart to the Mydrasses?


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Oh, I know judgement happens all of the time. I just meant no one has the right to judge you, or me on our respose to our religion. Ididn't mean they don't do it. But I'm with you about no Christian teaching about killing others as martyrs.


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## sevendogs (Sep 19, 2003)

live2hunt said:


> Sevendogs:
> 
> what color is the sky in your world?
> 
> You have too much time on your hands.


The skies are blue and to roses are red...
I just wanted to encourage others to think. Indoctrination blocks thinking. There is one book called Bible and there is anothe book called Quoran. There are many interpretations for both, from love to asketism and sacrifice. Think scientifically, reson, analyse and make conclusions.


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