# Black Cloud Choke question



## Toonhunter (Apr 12, 2009)

I ran black cloud 3 1/2 #2's in the fall hunting for Canada's and Snows. My question is this. I have a Remington 1187 auto loader. I have seen numerous barrell explosions at my local gunsmiths caused in this model by Black Cloud ammunition! Has anyone else seen or heard of this issue ? Do the Black cloud chokes that are available for this model take care of this issue ? Is anyone aware if this is an issue specific to the wadding that is used in the black cloud, or is it an issue with the actual shot ? I love the results i get with the black cloud but am extremely concerned with what i have been seeing. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated on this topic :beer: .


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## lookin4abuck (Feb 23, 2010)

What is numerous and what makes you think it is the ammo?


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## Toonhunter (Apr 12, 2009)

Talked to gun shop, they are telling me it is the black cloud wads jamming at end of the gun (where the factory choke is). So far they say they are up to about 12 barrels they have replaced for people in the last 1.5 years. Personally after seeing this (yes they have the barrells at the shop) think i will pass on any kind of black cloud ammo. FYI no reports of any other kind of ammo doing this, it was black cloud everytime. To bad really, i like the stopping power of the loads :beer:


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

If a plastic wad is causing a barrel to blow up, then it sounds like the gun is faulty rather than the ammo


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## lookin4abuck (Feb 23, 2010)

My guess is older guns with barrels for lead only...........yes black cloud wads are different than regular wads. But I find it very unlikely that 1 gun shop has 12 guns with bad barrels.

If it was the ammo don't you think Federal would pull it?


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## Toonhunter (Apr 12, 2009)

lookin4abuck said:


> My guess is older guns with barrels for lead only...........yes black cloud wads are different than regular wads. But I find it very unlikely that 1 gun shop has 12 guns with bad barrels.
> 
> If it was the ammo don't you think Federal would pull it?


Lol so i am a liar ? Instead of giving a typical BS response maybe stay out of the thread ? FYI its a one year old Remington 1187 auto loader. It is made specifically for steel shot. In Saskatoon 3 different gun sellers are experiancing exactly the same thing. To the point that they are not recommending you use Black Cloud at all. After my original post i spent the day travelling to all 3 of them to get some input/advice as there was no responses here. Two of the places are Remington repair facilities. and one shop has had 12 barrels blow, the other has had 2. Now what i also learned was that it only happened when the people using them were using the factory Remington full chokes. Problem does not seem to occur according to them with a Modified or improved cylinder.I contacted Remington on this situation and am currently waiting to hear back from them. Will post here what they have to say.Hunter maybe take a spent placstic wad jam it into the end of the barrell and let me know what happens when ya fire your next round :rollin: I am guessing it may take ya awhile to repost here if ya do


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

A spent platic wad traveling at 1400+fps gets jammed in the choke after pulling the trigger? OK Federal has ALWAYS recommended NOT using a full choke with Black Cloud. Cylinder or no choke at all is best so the wad can do its business. Nobody was calling you a liar, just questioning the validity of a claim. :beer:


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Directly from Federal's website

Aftermarket Chokes
Black Cloud® uses the proprietary FLITECONTROL® wad to deliver tight patterns with standard choke tubes. But many of you hardcore waterfowlers are looking for that extra edge and choose to shoot with an aftermarket choke. To address the unique design and purpose of the FLITECONTROL wad, several of the top choke makers have introduced products that work well with Black Cloud-and even provide better pattern performance in some cases. We'll keep you updated as more become available-here's what's out there now:

Carlson: www.choketube.com

Patternmaster: www.patternmaster.com

Kicks: www.kicks-ind.com

Trulock: www.trulockchokes.com

Pure Gold: www.puregoldchokes.com


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## lookin4abuck (Feb 23, 2010)

Wads get stuck rarely from all makes and models of ammo. It is due to low velocity. I just doubt the frequency you are claiming. I'm not calling you a liar..........misinformed maybe?

there have been no recalls for black cloud ammo. If there was low velocity issues we would see a recall.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

From Carlsons website

Never use BBB, T, or F shot through any flush mount choke tighter than modified. The best patterns with those shot sizes will be achieved with extended chokes, up to "Full" choke. DO NOT Shoot fast steel (1550 FPS and faster) shotshells through any flush-mounted choke tighter than "Modified" or Extended Choke tighter than "Improved Modified".


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## Toonhunter (Apr 12, 2009)

It is possible the Gunsmith i talked to was exagerating. However he did have 3 barrels in a display case with that exact issue.It is also possible that he may see more of these issues because he is a remington repair facitlity?Just an afterthought on that.What i have found out is that the issue is in these guys using full chokes. Like others have stated here the use of full chokes is not recommended. Since i never use more than a modified, i personally (thank god) never experienced the issues the others did. As a matter of fact i actually pattern my gun whenever i make an ammunition change, and noticed that the pattern was better with improved cylinder. Thank goodness my Dad took the time to teach me the right things all those years ago! Thanks all for the input much appreciated. Still thinking about purchasing a black cloud choke for my remington. Since it is a unique wad i might get an even better pattern. Might be worth the 65.00 to see. :beer:


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## lookin4abuck (Feb 23, 2010)

Give the new Black Cloud Snow Goose a try.....it is awesome


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## Toonhunter (Apr 12, 2009)

Biggest problem i have in Saskatoon is finding a place that actually carries any kind of choke tube selection. I know of one place that carries anything Black Cloud compatible and i believe it is a pattern master. So looks like i will be spending closer to 100.00 ! Shhhhh dont't tell the wifey :rollin:


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## lookin4abuck (Feb 23, 2010)

That must be a universal thing with wives......$100 for a choke, you would think I sold the car to buy drugs or something. Clothes, hair and nails is no big deal but anything hunting related is :******:

Good luck and try those snow goose loads.......they are 1635 FPS. Awesome!


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## dacaller (Feb 6, 2007)

Black Cloud S*cks.... They jam up not only in my gun but my sons and in my buddy's gun. So i cut the rest of the 2 boxes up and tossed them. Federal loads are junk!!!!


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## makin it rain (Apr 2, 2009)

dacaller said:


> Black Cloud S*cks.... They jam up not only in my gun but my sons and in my buddy's gun. So i cut the rest of the 2 boxes up and tossed them. Federal loads are junk!!!!


Theres always one in the crowd! Thanks for the thoughtful and helpful post.

As stated above your gamibling shooting a full choke anymore with how hot the shells are today. Im going to assume if you are willing to pay 18+ for a box of shells that an after market choke will not be a problem for you.(no thats no a shot at the BC shooters)

Do your research like your doing and you ll be fine


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## lookin4abuck (Feb 23, 2010)

I wonder what about them makes them jam in your gun.........what doesn't jam in your gun and what kind of gun is it?


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Dacaller,
Please send to me.Please.
Would love to have them.


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## dacaller (Feb 6, 2007)

lookin4abuck said:


> I wonder what about them makes them jam in your gun.........what doesn't jam in your gun and what kind of gun is it?


 I shoot a Mossberg as well as my son. My buddy shoots an 870.
For what ever reason I have never been able to shoot Federal shells thru any of my mossberg's. I'm not sure why but they expand soo much in the chamber after they are fired that they are really hard to get out sometimes. I have even had to take the barrell off sometimes to push the shell out.
Never again will I buy federal shells. Winchester all the way for me.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

which winchesters do you shoot??


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## bluebird (Feb 28, 2008)

It's because it's a Mossberg oke:


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## mjschuette (Feb 24, 2005)

I've had a few shells miss fire and leave the wad in the barrel, some of them my reloads, others old shells. I would hear a poof instead of bang. you don't pull the trigger again! pull the empty out, check the barrel to see if the wad is in the barrel, use a rod or stick to push it out. most of the time this happened my shells got wet. It could be that the shells are not sealed or maybe there wad is mendt to expand more than most. If that is the case 1 in a 1000 get stuck in in the barrel maybe? if thats the case don't use full choke tubes.


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## dacaller (Feb 6, 2007)

bluebird said:


> It's because it's a Mossberg oke:


An 870 is made by Remington.... Experts all the way....


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## SWIOWAHUNTER (Feb 16, 2007)

I shoot a Browning 10g and a win sx 2. Have shot many boxes of back cloud and have never had any problems. birds are dead very very few cripples. 10g BC choke patternmaster. Factory Mod for SK2.


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