# Why are open breeaches required in the Pacific Northwest?



## Psomniferum

I recently joined the ranks of muzzle loaders because I have a buddy who lives in Washington and I want to train in muzzle loaders to join him on a hunting trip within the year. I live in California and while I was doing internet research for my new hobby I noticed that WA, OR, and ID require open breeches. Can anyone explain this law to me?


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## Plainsman

I think they are trying to keep the very modern closed breech inline from being used. I have two Thompson Center inline and one is open, and the other closed. The law makes little sense because all the closed does is keep your primer protected from rain and snow. Some states restrict any inline muzzleloaders. Some require round ball only, while I think it's Colorado that requires a conical bullet for elk. Pennsylvania requires smoothbore. If your purchasing a muzzleloader and headed to another state people really need to check the regulations like you have.


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## Psomniferum

While I appreciate your response, I'm not sure I understand. You would think modern muzzle loaders would be more efficient killing machines therefore the game would have less chance of suffering. Perhaps you could help me with my next question. I bought a TC Impact which is a close breech. So I will have to purchase a different "boom-stick" to go hunting with my friend. I am "po-folks" so my budget is limited. Is there an economical muzzle loader BESIDES the CVA Buckhorn? While I have no personal experience with CVA, I have read that their barrels are only proofed to 10,000 psi and a lot of people have been hurt using their products. Is there another open breech for around $300 (my budget)?


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## Plainsman

You would think they would want more reliable if not more efficient. However I guess it comes from the opinion that if the get to efficient they are no longer primitive. I have a problem with their opinion because I think there is no difference between open or closed breech as far as efficient. There is a difference in reliable. Primers can become wet in open breach leading to no fire, or worse a hangfire which may result in a gut shot deer. Sometimes emotion rules rather than common sense.

As for what is available for under $300 I'm not sure. I have an older Thompson Center System 1 that is open breach. I guess I could only recommend checking their homepage, then looking on some sites like Midsouth Shooters Supply, Midway USA, etc and see what you can find an open breach for. I'm sure you can come up with one for under $300.

If I were you I would pick up a more traditional Thompson Center Hawken used and you will not need a third rifle in some other state you may wish to hunt later. I have a couple of cap lock traditional and shoot Pyrodex P in them with a 10% reduced load. Since the Pyrodex RS is more course it often doesn't get back into the nipple area and fire reliably. I did this after getting the recommendation directly from Hodgdon.


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## Psomniferum

I appreciate your responses. I almost gave up on this site because nobody was answering my questions. I am TOTALLY new to firearm hunting. I was raised in a bow-hunting family and we didn't use rifles for hunting. We had guns, but they were for self-defense. I ordered my TC Impact and am currently waiting for it in the mail. I could have purchased a Buckstalker or a Wolf. However, for a mere $50 more, I chose to get a made-in-America piece instead. Too bad I didn't know about the "open-breech" law til AFTER I made my purchase. Funny how the manuals for the Wolf and the Buckstalker suggest a max load of 150 gr. yet the TC maxes out at 120 gr. I trust TC's judgement over the other 2 companies. Especially since the TC manual is 50+ pages while the Traditions is only 15 and CVA is a fold-out sheet! Anyways, I did notice the CVA Buckhorn, which is open breech, for only $150. From what I've read however, CVA's barrels leave much to be desired. Do you know if the Buckhorn is safe? If you were me, would you part with the $150 to get one? Thank you for your help


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## Plainsman

I'm not up to speed on the safety of CVA. Years ago I don't know what kind of steel they had in them, but to me it appeared my friends rifle rusted very easily. Also, the bore was tighter as you started the bullet, and then just about fell to the bottom of the bore once you were in five or six inches. We cut it off to 20 inches and it shot better than it ever did before.

Since those years I have heard good things about the accuracy of CVA. My first rifle was a CVA Kentucky rifle and the only way to hit a barn with it is if you were on the inside. Animals were safe as long as the sights were on them.

Today I would feel confident in shooting a CVA for deer. My Thompson Centers are good for the magnum 150 gr loads, but I never go over 120 grains anyway. I shoot mostly the 250 gr Thompson Center Shockwave with 120 gr of Blackhorn 209. Sometimes I still shoot Pyrodex Select. I find the loose powder has higher velocity than the pellets.

You don't get much for $150, but then you don't risk much either. Well, you risk a hunt I guess, but I think you will do ok. Many people swear by the CVA although I'm a TC guy myself.


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## alleyyooper

Many Muzzle loading seasons were brought about before 1985 and Tony Knights redesigned inline muzzle loaders. One of the first inline patents was in 1836. When the seasons came about the rifles and shot guns of the time were either flint locks or percussion side locks for the most part. When the more reliailable inline became popular those old timeers felt they had lost their* PRIVATE *season to all the new comers with inlines. So many of them banded together to get the rules changed to their form of primitive.
Some states like Michigan the season was always called the Muzzle loader season so it would be harder to change the rules here. Plus we have been warned there are those who would try to set new laws to have a season for a few.

As for CVA quaility, Today is a far different company of yester year. Most of the barrels on todays CVA rifles are not made by CVA so you can feel safe shoting buckhorn 209 in a new CVA rifle.

I also am a Fan of T/C side locks rifles having hunted many years with a Hawkins till the eyes could work with open sights. I then switched to a T/C plains rifle with a 4x scope. They can be made nearly as reliable in wet weather as a inline with the use of bees wax and a cows knee and sonme cling wrap on the end of the muzzle.

 Al


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