# Tresspassing incident Wisconsin - 5 dead, three injured



## get the net (Oct 28, 2004)

Just off the news, tresspassing incident in Wisconsin, person came onto some private party and was asked to leave. Initial reports say he left and came back with some type of assualt rifle, killing 5 and wounding three others. Subject is in custody now. Watch for the details on the 10:00 news. What a tragedy. Absolutely unbelievable.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Happy we don't have a lot of Wisconsin hunters around here!!


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## SiouxperDave25 (Oct 6, 2002)

From the KSTP website:

EXELAND, Wis. - Five hunters were shot dead and three others injured after a dispute in northwestern Wisconsin.

The confrontation began around noon in a rural area southwestern Sawyer County. Authorities said a hunting party returning to their deer shack saw a hunter unknown to them occupying one of their tree stands. They confronted the hunter, and were apparently shot.

One of the shooting victims used a walkie talkie to radio back to their deer shack for help. When the victim's hunting partners came to the scene, they were also shot.

Sawyer County was in a virtual lockdown as authorities searched for the gunman. One suspect was eventually taken into custody around 5:15 p.m.

The suspect, Chia Vang is being held in Sawyer County Jail.

Officials at Lakeview Medical Center in Rice Lake said they treated three gunshot victims. They said one of the victims was transported to a hospital in Marshfield, Wis. Another victim is in critical condition and is undergoing surgery. The third victim is in fair condition in the intensive care unit.

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There's also a video clip of an interview with a policeman from the Sawyer PD. It's been reported that a SKS was used.


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## quackattack (Sep 27, 2003)

:******: :eyeroll: How could someone do something like this?! It is just beyond me....... This person is not a true sporstman. Not only is this person not a sporstman but they are truely a cold blooded murderer and they should be prosecuted as strictly as possible. 
Sorry to the family of those killed and injured.......you are in our thoughts and prayes.

Just to think that someone would do something over a DEER STAND! This gives a bad name to us sporstman.

:huh:

:eyeroll:


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## rap (Mar 26, 2002)

wow..


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Indeed a very sad day in the hunting world!!! uke:



> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Happy we don't have a lot of Wisconsin hunters around here!!


The news said he was from Minn. And no not trying to open a bag of worms. Just updating as the news comes in.

Right now there are some families that need some serious prayers!!!


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## NDJ (Jun 11, 2002)

suspect these two things will surface....the race issue(possible self defense??) and the "assault rifle"....


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

Crazy MF'er. Good thing he ran out of ammo or more people probably would have died.

Good friend of mine shot a doe years back. When he tracked her over a hill there were 2 other "hunters" on his property already gutting his deer. When he confronted them he got a pistol stuck in his face and was told he was either going to walk away or die where he stood.

Just one of the reasons why I don't deer hunt.


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## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

...i really dont even know what to say to that. i can see people geting in arguments and maybe a little fist fight coming of it. but to shoot another human being? and not just one, 8 of them? the thought of being involved in that or being a family member is just something i cant even comprehend. i would like to know the full story of why he was shooting, but either way, NO excuse for what happend. sad thing is i hear lots of stories about people claiming big game animals and saying that they are going to shoot the other guy that thinks its his...how could an animal be worth that? im with win4win, no deer hunting for me


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## Im4Fishing&amp;Hunting (Mar 19, 2003)

wow...I don't know what to say about this one...this is something that a person would never think would happen, I caught some guys sneeking ducks on our land yesterday that were from minn. (not saying minn. hunters are bad) and I drove out there and asked them what they were doing on posted land and the guy said "here is the truth we have had a hard time getting some birds this weekend and we saw all these ducks and we wanted to sneek them, we saw the sign and ignored" I said well I'm not ****** but next time please call the number on the sign! and he appoligized and he came to our farm and we had dinner and talked it over and told him next year when he is back to please call us and we will giver him permission to hunt! maybe hunt with us if we are hunting! things like this can be resolved and stuff like this should never happen! like someone already said "big game is not worth loosing a life or 4..." and a tree stand especially!!! uncalled for this is a bad name for all sportsman!!! the families of these hunters are definately in my prayers...

GOD BLESS THESE FAMILIES...

Im4Fishing&Hunting


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## mallardhunter (May 15, 2004)

:eyeroll: I can't believe that someone would do that.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Sad Very Sad! My prayers are with the victims families.

I don't know about you guys but an SKS is probably the last gun I would use for hunting. Is it really that common of a gun for deer hunting?

"the suspect was "chasing after them and killing them," with a SKS 7.62 caliber semiautomatic, a common hunting weapon."

Bob


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

This incident wasn't about HUNTERS EDUCATION COURSE, this was about RAGE. Plain and simple. Not to sound too preachy, but our society is full of this crap, and we see it on a daily basis. Many have stopped living as humans, and started living as animals...I take that back, animals kill for a reason, not because they're mad...this guy doesn't even deserve to be called an animal.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Here is my problem with our legal system........ this guy deserves capital punishment. Not in 5-10 years after millions of dollars have been spent on appeals, therapy, and housing him in a jail cell......it needs to happen w/in a year! This is an open and shut case that will cost taxpayers too much money!

Man, I really need my morning coffee...........I think I'm a little cranky today!


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

This has nothing to do with hunting.It is exactly the same as road rage.


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## Lance Pardee (Oct 28, 2004)

I talked to some friends of mine that hunted up there this weekend, and they were hunting right across the road from them. the guy was tresspassing, and when he was confronted he just started shootin'. they radioed for help and when the people came out he started shootin' them. there was a young kid, and his dad killed, a women, and 2 others. all from the group. He also mortally wounded 3 others. He was caught and is in jail now. I think he had some major problems.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Very sad indeed.

SKS is a poor hunting weapon to say the least. Made in Russia and China. Should be outlawed. I have shot several deer which were carrying those little bullets which dont expand for squat. 
Thing is, you can buy one for about 40 bucks and they are the weapon of choice for many people who come to this country from other parts of the world.

I dont know about the whole race issue in this particular incedent. The suspect could be a 5th generation American of Norwegian descent for all I know, but I doubt it. The guy's name leads me to believe that he is Asian (a fine and noble people and has nothing to do with the right or wrong of this) of which there are many in the TC area who havent been here very long. I do know that there is a lot of confusion among certian ethnic groups new to the US regarding laws and ownership of land.
There lives back in the old country involved a lot of subsistance hunting, gathering and fishing. They come here and see the bounty but dont know the rules.
If I were a betting man, Id put a few shekles on it having gone somthing like this.

Immigrant finds a tree stand and doesnt realize that it is off limits.
Locals confront him possibly threaten him, he gets scared and shoots.

I could be way off with that but I highly doubt that it was two parties who knew the score and that stand was so important to both that it ignited some killing.

Too bad the media is going to work this the way they do and hunters will get a black eye because of it.


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## zdosch (Aug 31, 2003)

The unimpossible becomes reality.... This is just truly eye-opening!! This is just one prime example on why hunting gets a bad reputation. Does the public really ever hear anything positive or just this horse crap?! I know it has and will be all over the news. This is why you should always hunt with atleast one other person. He could have sat up there in the treestand and "sniped" a single hunter all by himself and know body would have a clue where he might be, unfortunatly it's a hard to face fact that is a lesson learned, which we should all learn by. I hope this is the last of this kind of publicity that hunting will ever get. One should never go out in the field and become the "enemy!" We should all be able to go out in the field and have a great conversation with another hunter know matter who it is.

Thoughts and prayers to the victims families...

zach


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> I hope this is the last of this kind of publicity that hunting will ever get.


I hope the same but I doubt it. :eyeroll: I think it is a tragedy and even more of the nuts could come rolling out of the closet after this. uke:


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Hunting shouldn't even be brought up in this! It should read (outdoorsman murdered by crazy freak) !!! :eyeroll: :******: :******: :eyeroll:


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

THATS SO INSANE. Just saw the report before I went to school. SKS? What was that guy doing. They just had that big report on one of the local new stations about Hmong hunters in St Paul and their hunting habbits and stuff like that, now you see one on the news this kinda stuff. Made me sick


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## Ronald (Oct 15, 2004)

The conduct of the general public in America is alarming. Hunters should be the most responsible of everyone. Whichever type of hunting we take up, we all witness the finality of death and the leathality of the guns we carry. 
Unfortunately, we may never know exactly what took place between the suspect and the victims. How did the victims handle the situation? Did they do anything to provoke or threaten the suspect? This does not take away from the actions of the suspect. There is absolutely no reason why hunting should turn into something like this.

We all take on a great amount of responsibility when we enter the field to hunt. We need to maintain the utmost respect for property rights and individuals. If there is a confrontation, walk away and contact authorities. Don't get irrate and irrational, let trained professionals deal with someone who is breaking the law. 
Encourage your hunting companions to uphold all laws. Don't look the other way when a friend does something illegal, let them know you don't approve. If hunting is going to continue on through the 21st century, we all have to do our part to promote responsibility among all hunters.


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## Ronald (Oct 15, 2004)

What makes this story scary to me is that opening weekend of deer season in Minnesota, a friend and neighbor of mine was threatened by a hunter. He was in his yard, cutting firewood, literally within 100 ft of his own house. It was the middle of the afternoon. An individual from a property atleast 1/4 mile away walked across an open field, owned by my friend's father, carrying his gun, and yelled at him for cutting wood. The person trespassed across someone else's property to yell at him for cutting firewood because the man said the noise was going to scare all the deer away.

First, there's nothing illegal about cutting firewood when you want to. Second, it was over a 1/4 mile away and even if it would have an effect, the guy has no right to complain. Third and most important, why the heck was the guy carrying his gun? Fine if he had a complaint, as implausable as it was, but why the gun? To make the man more imposing? You don't have to literally say "I'm going to shoot you" to be threatening someone with a weapon. The only reason this individual could have had for carrying the gun with him would be to add a threatening effect.

There needs to be some law changes. There is no reason to even display a weapon in an argument. If we are going to keep our guns, we need to maintain the integrity of hunting. There are far too many landowners who deal with trespassing as a regular occurrence. 
And which one of these fools walking around with a high powered weapon is willing to kill someone over access to land? Hunting will not continue as a sport open to the common individual if actions like this continue. And rightly so, if we can conduct ourselves in a reasonable manner, we don't deserve the opportunity to hunt.


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Leave the integrity of hunting to the hunters. Lets police our own, call RAP, TIP or whatever other line goes directly to your state agency to report threats, trespassing, tagging, over limit and one of a bazillion other violations. By the way, there already ARE laws against murder, trespass, assault w. a deadly weapon, poaching, etc. More red tape isn't the answer.

Ron - I think you're preaching to the choir here. And like Curty said, this is not a hunting incident, it is a multiple-homicide perpetrated by a criminal, not a hunter, but good luck convincing the media or the Antis about that point of view.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

Bert said:


> Very sad indeed.
> 
> SKS is a poor hunting weapon to say the least. Made in Russia and China. Should be outlawed. I have shot several deer which were carrying those little bullets which dont expand for squat.
> Thing is, you can buy one for about 40 bucks and they are the weapon of choice for many people who come to this country from other parts of the world.


Paaalease....take the self righteous comments about the rifle and leave it at the door. The weapon is more than capable of deer than you could imagine. It is a curio and relic listed ATF weapon. So it costs $80-150 depending on country of origin.

Plain and simple this guy went over the deep end and 5 are now dead. The gun was only the tool. It could have been a car and a drunk for that matter.

Don't blame an inanimate object over the actions of a human being. And we wonder why our society and hunting/gun rights are disappearing.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

FarmerJ

Thanks for saying what you did, you are 100% correct. I have been watching this thread and wanting to say something along the same lines. If guns were outlawed to prevent murder, should we make matches & lighters illegal to prevent arson?

Back to the subject, sad story and I feel for the relatives and freinds of the fellow sportsman who lost their lives and those who were injured.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

> Don't blame an inanimate object over the actions of a human being.


The anti's won't see that way. Another stupid act with a firearm is all they will pound away on. I sadly have to say I'm not that surprised this whole tragedy happened. The horror stories during the firearm deer season have gotten more ridiculous over the years and this is the worst by far. How many of these similar incidents will we hear about over the next 20+ years?? How many on a smaller scale don't you hear about?? This is why I bowhunt. Too many idiots in a small area with firearms, gee who would have thought??

I had a situation with a trespasser who was on my land and I removed the stand he had up. He called me wanting it back. I told him after a long talk that he can have it back at the end of the season. I took the stand just to make the statement and so he would call me. He did and the problem is taken care of. Not to be racist, but it helps when both sides speak the same language.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Farmer,
I never blamed the rifle for the action.
Someone else said somthing about it being an iffy deer gun and I wholeheartedly agree. More wounding than you think. It just does so little damage that the deer dont show much sign of being hit.
A 22 magnum will kill a deer too but there is a reason they dont allow them.
The biggest problem is that the bullet is light and doesnt expand.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Bert
Average 7.62 X 39 softgrains are 154 grains and these are a 30 caliber bullet, equivalent to using a 30-30, it is plenty of gun and does organ, bone and flesh damage that will drop a deer.

I feel for the victims of this attack.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

We true "hunters" need to continue being advocates for our hunting and also be advocates for high moral standards and ethics! I don't know how this could have happened and I am saddened by it. I also feel for the victims and their families and wish them the best (whatever they can make of it)!


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

THIS IS SICK! HOW IN THEWOURLD! THEY JUST UP AND SHOOT PEOPLE FOR NOT LETING THEM HUNT ON THEIR LAND? thats sad. At the verry least, i hope they are convicted. then they will never be alowed to have ny kind of gun ever again. Idiots.

and as for you Bert...124gr soft points are to light and dont expand? but its ok to use 85gr. holowpoints for a .223, or 100gr soft points on a 6mm/.243?

Alot of people wound deer with a 30-06 to. Does that mean rifles chambered for it are bad for deer? does that mean its not good to use on deer?

SKS is accurate to 100 yards, and is easily capable of killing a deer anywhere under said distance. on paper the 7.62x39 is identical to the 30-30. is the 30-30 a bad deer cartridge also? now in reality its somewhere betweene a .243 an .257 for game with the lighter bullets. People who are wounding deer with a SKS are either:

A) taking bad shots

B) Taking shots over 100 yards

C) using full metal JAcket ammo. :idiot:

i could use FMJ Steel cored .308 bullets on a deer to. does that make the .308 a bad deer cartridge? i could shoot a bucks left antler off with a .300 Winchester mag, does that mean its not good for deer?

i better stop. im going over-bored :lol:

Do a little resurch on the gun before you rule it out.


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## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

It would really help to get to hear the whole, true story. The wounded will be able to tell their story when they recover from their injuries, and I believe this will be a truthful story. Since their was a young kid and woman with the group, I doubt there was a huge arguement/physical altercation with racial slurs being thrown around. I feel really bad for the victims and everything, but there is one thing I don't understand. If a wounded friend radioed to me that he was shot, you better believe I would be out there with my gun, ready to use it. Maybe they did, who knows.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

im wondering that also...wernt they armed? or were they not hunting at the time? i agree maple. if i got a radio from my friends, id be there with 3 other guys and an ttrunk load of Weapons and Ammo ( EVIL SKS even!!!!) as fast as my old Pontiac could take us.

hopefully we will get more info soon.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

My post way back was only asking how popular an SKS is for deer hunting as the article said it was a common gun for deer hunting.

Bob


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

Just read a news article which stated that this was a common hunting rifle for deer, if I seen some one with a weapon like that in the woods i would be a little nervous. We will hear the rest of the story when the wounded are able to talk.


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## Wood Duck (Mar 22, 2002)

This happened about 45 miles from my house. I heard the press conference on the local FM station. It sounds like the guys reponding to the call for help didnt even bring guns. I think they were thinking about helping someone who got shot (an accident in thier minds) and then the guy hunted them down & shot them. There was only one other rifle at the scene besides the SKS the shooter had. All of the victims were well recognized citizens and buisness owners in Rice Lake, a nearby town of about 7000.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

adokken said:


> Just read a news article which stated that this was a common hunting rifle for deer, if I seen some one with a weapon like that in the woods i would be a little nervous. We will hear the rest of the story when the wounded are able to talk.





Bert said:


> Farmer,
> I never blamed the rifle for the action.
> Someone else said somthing about it being an iffy deer gun and I wholeheartedly agree. More wounding than you think. It just does so little damage that the deer dont show much sign of being hit.
> A 22 magnum will kill a deer too but there is a reason they dont allow them.
> The biggest problem is that the bullet is light and doesnt expand.


So if we meet in the woods, would you label me as a fanatic and a nut case because I happened to be carrying a M1 Garand? or my M14 w/ a 5 rd magazine? or one of my many Mosin Nagant rifles? I hunted with my M1 Garand this year too, so yes, you may have if we were in the same neighborhood.

I have these rifles because I could afford them LONG before I could afford a decent bolt action and they offer me more recreation than a single bolt gun. I also use them to shoot service rifle and x-course matches. My Garand cost me $425 at the CMP. Any one of you could buy them for the same price. I happened to find the right deal and got my M14 for LESS than the Remington 788 bolt action I bought for my daughter.

They are military weapons as is the SKS. BIG DEAL... Both are very capable WEAPONS for deer hunting. Neither one makes me a nut case. It is no different if you shot a Browning BAR. Just that you spent more money on a gun than I ever would.

Instead of slamming ourselves because some nut case went off the deep end and KILLED 5 people and trying to say why was he hunting with this or that or whatver.....IT DOESN'T MATTER......

HE KILLED 5 PEOPLE........THAT is ALL that matters and now those families must put there lives back together again after this terrible tragedy. Why he killed them will be interesting to hear...But I feel for the families that have suffered SO Much. I will never understand their pain. I can only offer my condolences and hope that they can move forward in the life they have been given.

God speed to them in their recovery and mourning......


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## Ronald (Oct 15, 2004)

Right on Remmi.

And I agree that all violations should be reported njsimonson. But I disagree on the hunting part, he had a hunting rifle, he had a hunting license. He was out hunting. He was a hunter. We don't know, and may never know, what all conspired between the two parties to bring this about. What we do know, from this incident and far too many others involving hunters, is that there are serious problems within the hunting community and society in general.

People, don't escalate a situation by trying to solve it yourself. If someone is trespassing, call the warden, call the sheriff; there is a reason why these people are there. I am not saying that what happened to these 5 people is in any way justified, make no mistake, but if they would have contacted a member of the law enforcement community instead of confronting this trespasser themselves, do you think they would still be alive today?


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## mallardhunter (May 15, 2004)

This makes all hunters look bad :eyeroll:


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

Ronald Im not disagreeing with your post but try calling a game warden during a opening week of deer season cause someone is sitting in your stand and see how quick the responce is, if you get a responce.

From the sound of the news they were hunted like animals. They were spread out over a hundred hard area. Only one weapon! You cant tell me that all those (unarmed)victims ran into the gunefire to shoo a man from a tree stand. :eyeroll:


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Bert,
you really show your ignorance of firearms with the statement you made on this topic, I suggest you look into the subject before you get on the podium. The 7.62x39 is more than enough power for white tail deer anywhere in North America when used at 150 yds or less. There is no way you have seen deer "carrying" bullets from this cartidge.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

Maybe he has, maybe he hasn't, either way the gun has nothing to do with the man's choices. It's a cheap rifle with cheap ammo that can down deer, it doesn't mean your some communist that want's to kill everyone.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

The tragedy gets worse - a sixth person has died.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=275017

Although I am shocked and stunned by this tragedy, I can't say that I am terribly surprised by this event. How many times have we heard stories about angry crazies sticking guns in other folks faces during hunting disputes? Far too many in my book.
M


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## eskay (Aug 21, 2004)

Alright Guys, here's the story from the Sawyer County Sherriff's Dept. and family members.

I grew up in Rice Lake, went to school and college there, live there, and own a business in Rice Lake. While I didn't know the parties involved personally, I know who they are by face, and know close relatives personally.

The hunters that were the victims are all closely related, either by ancestry or marriage. They are all business owners and upstanding citizens in our community, so forget the "white trash/*******" talk. The two main families involved are large and close knit, and I grew up with several of these people.

The events unfolded as follows, gleaned from the sheriff's report, eyewitness accounts, and family members offerings from talking to their loved ones involved. Also, I just returned from conversations over a few beers with the husband of one of the surgeons ( who is a very close friend) who operated on the survivors( so far).

This is the story:
One of the hunters was returning from the morning hunt to join the rest for a lunch break. He noticed someone sitting in one of the group's tree stands, and asked a few of the guys outside the hunting cabin if anyone was supposed to be in the stand. They told him no, and then a couple of them went out on ATVs to tell the guy that he was on private land and that he couldn't hunt there. As they approached the area where the hunter was, they saw him walking out. One of the guys wrote down his backtag number in the dust on the ATV. They had planned on reporting him to the DNR for trespassing. They noticed he was fiddling with his gun, as as he turned toward them, they noticed that he has removed the scope. He then turned and opened fire on them. One of the wounded had a walkie-talkie, and radioed back to the hunting cabin that he needed help, that he had been shot.

The other members of the party came to assist him. Whether all of the party came out, I don't know. What happened then was that they basically walked into an ambush. The trepassing hunter, later identified as Chai Vang(sp?) opened fire on them, even chasing some down and shooting them in the back. One of the wounded told deputies that as he lay wounded, Vang walked up to him, cursed, and made a comment that he should be dead.
It appears that only the late arriving hunter was armed, as the others came out either to inform Vang of the trepass, or to help their relatives and friends after they heard the distress call on the radio.

Vang was found hours later after he became lost in the woods, approached another group of hunters unaware of the situation, and asked for help. They led him out of the woods into a gauntlet of police vehicles, and a law enforcement officer recognized the backtag number and took Vang into custody. His gun was empty.

I was personally out hunting at the time of the incident, and was in the process of field dressing a deer when I heard the helicopters overhead. I was about 10-15 miles away from this scene, and was unaware at the time of the events unfolding. After I dragged the deer out of the woods to my brother's house, we shortly thereafter received a phone call form my hunting partner's wife telling us of the happening, and giving us sketchy details and rumor reports of what was going on. We all gathered shortly thereafter as we got everyone in from the woods to listen to the reports on the radio, and try to sort out what was going on. The phone rang nonstop for a hour straight, as our friends and family knew that we were close to this area, and wanted to check on our well being.

As I write this, I've just heard that a sixth person has died from wounds suffered in this horrible tragedy. I didn't hear who it was, but two of the wounded were in critical condition earlier in the day.
The deceased are as follows: A father and son, ages 41 and 20; a 27 yo man hunting with this group for the first time; a 43 yo man who ran the local lumberyard; and a 27(?)yo woman hunting with her father, who was also shot in the neck and air-lifted to the Marshfield Clinic in critical condition.

Other injured were a well known local businessman and avid stock car driver and builder, shot in the abdomen. He was the one that my friend's wife operated on, removing sections of his intestines, stomach and pancreas. It appears from his wounds that he was shot at a distance of less than 50 yards, the bullet passing through laterally. He was in critical condition the last I heard, and I don't know if he has passed on yet. His brother-in-law and close friend was shot in the shoulder, and is in fair condition as the last report.

It appears that of the eight people shot, only one may have been carrying a firearm. The rest were either out to inform Vang of his trepass, or coming to the aid of their fellow sportsmen.

This is a tragedy yet to unfold, unheard of in the sporting community. Today the town was in a very somber and shocked state, as several of the people I talked with in my store were in disbelief of the events that happened.

Wisconsin enjoys and embraces the family tradition of deer hunting, being a time for family and friends to join together not only in the pursuit of the elusive whitetail, but to enjoy and reflect on the coming together of friends, family, and acquaintances in the name of hunting. Really, the hunt means little to most groups, the real pleasure and satisfaction comes from the gathering together and enjoying each other's company, which only happens once a year for most.

It appears that Vang is cooperating at this time with the authorities. Let's hope that we will eventually get some answers to his actions, whether we like it or not.

Please, as fellow hunters and Americans, don't make this out as a racial or cultural issue. It doesn't matter whether he was asian, arab, or norwegian; or was christian, muslim, or buddist. Maybe we will hear his reason for this atrocious act, maybe not. All I know is that this will be a somber and sad holiday season for families that I know personally, because one man let his beast out and gave it control over his moral constraints.

I don't want this to turn into a sociological discussion on the ruin of society as we know it, or a bashing of cultural differences. Let us ponder this incredible tragedy as sportsmen, and hope that it never happens again.


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## eskay (Aug 21, 2004)

Here's a post script to my previous post.

While all this was going on, we received MORE bad news. The friend that I was hunting with, and have since we we old enough to hunt, invited his cousin up for opener. He lives in the southern part of the state, and turned out to be a great guy and responsible hunter (the only kind I'll hunt close to). Before he left Sunday morning after his hunt he called home, and was informed that he closest friend was climbing into his tree stand and his gun discharged, severing the artery in his groin (femoral artery). His chances of recovery are grim. The drs. induced a 72 hr coma after they had revived him after he had bled out in the ER. Doesn't look good.

I feel sorry for him and his family, but this was a preventable accident, as most are. Loaded gun, tree stand, darkness all add up to tragedy. Plus, my friend talked to his father, and he told us that this individual has been using this gun with a faulty safety for two years! A quick stop and 25 bucks at the gunsmith could've prevented what might turn out to be a deadly tragedy.

Please keep both of these incidents in the forefront of your minds, and please always err on the side of caution and reason in your hunting decisons. No game in the bag is worth your life, or someone else's.


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## eskay (Aug 21, 2004)

I just went back and read some of the earlier posts more closely. You have to get off the SKS aspect. This is just more fodder for the anti-gun liberal media. It's a cheap, legitimate firearm that alot of people use because you can buy one cheap. And you get what you pay for. Do I have one? No. But it's a legal firearm, and anyone hunting in the northwoods of Wisconsin knows that you rarely have a shot over 50 yards. The 7.62 is more than capable of delivering a lethal shot at that distance with the correct shot placement. Don't some of you in ND use guns in the .22 caliber range for deer hunting? An adequate gun with the correct bullet placement.

Don't give the antis any more ammo than they already have. This tragedy will give the radical anti-hunting extremists plenty of excitement and propaganda to use. And forget about PETA using this. They're way too media savvy to use this tragedy for their own gain. They'll turn it over to the ALF (an offshoot of PETA and funded by PETA) to use to spout their animal rights rhetoric and use it to justify their criminal and terroristic methods.

This was one man losing control, and using the weapon he had. It could have just as easily been a knife or a baseball bat, because the people he attacked were unarmed and not expecting the behavior of this individual. It only takes 7 ft/lbs of force to crush a human skull, and anyone one of us that has ever hit a baseball or softball knows the effort we out into the swing. The SKS was just what he had.

Also, don't turn this into a racial issue, as I stated earlier. Yes, he was a Hmong, but a naturalized citizen and had all the proper licenses and clothing. This country was built on the Open Door Policy, and we'd be hard pressed to find any of us that didn't benefit from this policy, as all of our ancestors, either parents, Grandparents, or further down the family tree came to this country from somewhere else, unless your last name is Littlefeather or Bearheart or such. The main difference between then and now is that we all looked alike, being from European descent. Maybe you don't understand their cultures, and can't fathom how they can eat grasshoppers or dogs, but I can remember my great-grandmother making Lutefisk for the holidays, and who in their right mind would think that was edible?

This is a tragic example of confrontation turned deadly. And as someone stated earlier, I'm also surprised that something like this hasn't happened before, as sad as that is to say. But, I'll still keep my doors unlocked, display my guns proudly in my gun case in my living room, and help out a stranger if he needs it. But I also let everyone know that I have a loaded gun in EVERY room in my house, and things that go bump in the night might just end up staring into the business end of these guns, no matter if they're black, white, asian or from Mars, live 200 miles away or next door.

Will I be more careful next time I go hunting? No more than I already am. I can't, and won't, make this weekend's events change my behavior. If I find someone I don't know hunting on my or my brother's property (and I have in the past), I'll talk with them and tell them what I've seen and give them my advice. You see, I don't care if they hunt where I'm hunting, because the available areas to hunt here are dwindling fast. You won't see any no trepassing signs on my property, and if someone asks to hunt I always give permission. Occasionally I'll tell them that they can hunt it after the opening weekend, because that's the only time I hunt it. And then I'll tell them what I've seen after I'm done andnthey stop back. I've learned this from the times I've spent hunting in your state, North Dakota. You get what you give, and the people of ND are the most gracious and generous people I've run into in all my years of traveling across this country. And I've run into way more great people than grumpy ones wherever I go.

And while I'm on a roll and can't sleep, I must address the R/NR issues that are so hotly debated here. You residents have to come together and form some sort of coalition to resolve this issue. It's your state, and anyone that disagrees with whatever regulations and limitations you come to agreement should go somewhere else. I've only hunted in ND twice in the past 5 years, and while the first time was astounding and the second a lot harder, I enjoyed the last time (this year in late Oct/early Nov) more because of the people we met and shared company with. If you decide to limit NR licenses like SD does, that's fine with me. Or make more zones, etc. Perhaps you should do as we do here in WI for turkey hunting. Put in your preferences as to time slot and zone. First choice, second, etc. So many licenses are alloted per zone and time. Then there is a draw early in the year and licenses are assigned accordingly. Of course, we have 45 turkey zones in the state, but I'm sure your DNR can come up with an adequate plan. This could lessen the tremendous pressure you see in the early season and at the time of MEA break, since most of your NR hunters seem to come from MN. Or offer limited full season NR licenses at a premium price in a draw system. It's up to you guys that live there. Here in WI, we have a Conservation Congress that is made up of everyman sportsmen that present ideas for changes to the DNR and hold open meetings in every county in the state to get anyone's opinion and ideas. This is how we got the early season goose limit to a statewide 5 geese, and changed the regular season limit from 1 to 2. And amazingly, the DNR listens to the ideas. The same is true as to our 1 hen mallard limit. Every year it's brought up to change to a 2 hen daily limit, as the feds allow, and every year the sportsmen attending these conferences vote it down. Do what you have to do to preserve your way of life, or you'll end up like the rest of the country, where it's getting more and more difficult to find places to enjoy our pursuit of the outdoor sports unless you're fortunate enough to own or purchase your own land.

Okay, enough already. Thanks to those who waded through this diatribe, and I'll try to keep you updated as to the details of the shootings as they become available. And sorry for any typos.


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## NDMALLARD (Mar 9, 2002)

Thanks Eskay for the information.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Sorry to have ruffled so many feathers with my comments on the sks.

Here is where I am coming from...
A few years ago when I hunted deer in another area, we hunted near a group, several groups actually, who preferred to shoot the sks guns. Got a deal on them or somthing. Anyway, we our party shot an average of 9 or 10 deer each season. Upon skinning and cutting up the meat we would find that about half of the deer we killed were carrying those 7.62 bullets (the little copper jacketed hollow pointed cheapies) which didnt do enough damage to kill, short of creating painful festering wounds. Some of the deer had them lodged in muscle and coated with black goo from the year before. Many were hit were a .270 or .30-30 or 12 guage slug would have put them down right now because of speed, shock or expansion.
This was year after year for 5 years.
If you were me, how would you view the gun?
Can a pi$$ poor shot with an .06 wound a deer? Heck yes. You simply up your odds.
Now, in the right hands, a .22 long rifle can and will kill a deer. 
My point is that the average guy who goes out and buys an 60 dollar gun which was never designed as a hunting weapon probably doesnt really care all that much about ballistics and range time and bullet selection.
Some guys sporterize them and dial them in and thats great.
Too many though pull them off the rack, get most of the cosmoline off it, buy the jumbo economy sized pail of third world ammo and head off to the woods.
Somebody mentioned the .223.
I own a .223...for fox. They are not legal in Minnesota for shooting big game. Why is that? Somebody deemed it a wounder.
There is nothing wrong with owning and shooting an sks. Ive shot them and they are a fun little gun, I just dont think much of them for shooting deer because of what kind of hunter (not all but the ones I have come in contact with) tends to use them and I know from personal experience how unnappropriate the ammo that is available in mass quantities is for deer.
My opinion. I think I am allowed that.

Regardless, what happened in Wisconsin is a terrible tragedy. Prayers go to the families.
The gun is not important. So lets drop that end of it.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

eskay.... Does Wisconsin have a mag cap limit for deer hunting. ND had a 5 round limit at one time but I can't find it in the regs now so it might have been dropped.


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## jd mn/nd (Apr 8, 2004)

First let me start out by saying that this is a HUGE tragity!! That being said this individual that has committed these CRIMES should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!! The Hmong Chai Vang Committed MURDER, he Tesspassed, and he was not wearing blaze orange as is required by law, he was reported to have been wearing camo while on the stand. He does have a criminal history of domestic violance in Januruary of 2001 police were called to his home in Minneapolis because he was waving a pistol in his wifes face. He has lived in th U.S. for 25 years and is reported to speak very good english and also able to read english. Which means that he knew what he was doing, as wrong as it was!! Everyone on here needs to remember that the things this person did could have been done with any number of weapons, such as knifes, pipes, cars, baseball bats, etc... Think of it this way if you take out a gun, load it, and lay it on the kitchen tabel, if no one touches that gun it will not wound or kill any one on it's own, but when a person pickes up that gun and pulls the trigger, that is when it does damage!! The gun or any other weapon is not the killer, the person behind that weapon is the killer!! Lets worry about prosecuting the individual not the weapon people!!!! If anyone is so inclined or is able to show their financial support for families involved they have established a relief fund at the Rice Lake Bank for the family members of the shooting victims. This unfortunate incident will have many repurcussions to the community of sportspeople every where for a long time to come, starting with hunters trying to get permission for hunting land. I was visiting with a friend and land owner yesterday afternoon about this, and one of his first comments was if I did not know you personally I would not let you hunt here this weekend for opening of the muzzleloader season!! He went on to say that he will no longer let strangers hunt on his land because his families home is there and he is concerned for their safety more now than before, due to this incident. People we as sportmen and women now have bigger obstacles to over come, lets all try to make a more concerted effort to show repect for one another as human beings and to land owners lets make sure to make a huge effort to show our appreciation for letting partake in the bounties of their proprties. With that all said to all of the families involved in the unfortuante incident we will keep you in our hearts through the holidays and for years to come. Be safe everyone and try to have Happy Holidays.


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## eskay (Aug 21, 2004)

dakotashooter,

As far as I know, there isn't any limit to the mag capacity. I think even if there was, this individual wouldn't have cared or abided by it.


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Well, bail was set at 2.5 million. Nature has a way of taking care of things, let's all chip in and bail him out !!!


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## Drew Willemsen (Sep 29, 2003)

Where do we send checks?? :evil: :eyeroll:


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## fireball (Oct 3, 2003)

One question about your report eskay. You say that the first guy to find him in the tree stand was returning from a morning hunt, then you state later that the only gun involved in defense was arrived later when people came to help. Did the morning hunter go out bow hunting? It is a great tragedy, they guy was a nut case. His side of the story is on the cnn web page. He said he was shot at first, which they will be able to prove, if there was a bullet expended from the gun in question and he said he was surrounded by 5 people who were racially slurring him. Now, we got a freak with a gun, we have a group of hunters, who under normal circumstances are proabably great people, but it only takes one to start a mob rules type of scenerio, especially when it comes to property rights. Lite the freaks fuse with some racial slurs and threats and what do you get, a time bomb. In the story about this guy, it said he held a gun to his wifes head recently, obviously, this type of person should not be owning firearms.

I just can't imagine even a crazy person just turning around and shooting five people because they "politely" asked him to leave. Even crazy people have some tolerance. I mistakenly wandered onto private land in the badlands, while hunting mule deer and been asked, not so politely to get the fbomb off my land and all the other words and names that come along with those polite landowner requests. Now, imagine if I was a Hmong imigrant, all alone, surrounded by 5 white guys with the mob rules mentallity thriving. I am not making any excuses for this freak, he should be put in the chair immediately, but our actions often bring out adverse reactions. There are only two witness' left, they guy in the hospital fighting for his life and the lunatic who did it. The guy in the hospital was one of the last two to arrive at the scene, so making assumptions heard around town about what happened are just speculation at this point.

I am still curious, the guy returning from the morning hunt was walking back to the cabin, or was driving. If he was driving, I can understand that he left his gun in the truck, but if he was walking, then he must have had it with him. Also, what was going on that they needed five people to rush out on atv's to ask one guy to leave...that kinda brings the mob rules thing to mind...we got a Hmong out here all alone, lets go give him hell and tell him to get the fbomb off our land...they all look alike anyway.....dadadadada....

Just my toughts and oh yeah, I have seen at least 3 deer taken with cheap russian guns. :sniper:


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Why would he open fire on the other people on the 4 wheelers? They had nothing to do with the altercation, and were merly driving up. No reports have said that they came up shooting at him? Does the racial slures of the other people mean that it was self defense to kill the other people?

I am not trying to arguing, I just don't feel that is the true story! ANYBODY that has disrespected fire arms by waiving them in their wives face should not beable to own a gun!!!


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## cootkiller (Oct 23, 2002)

We don't need a multimillion dollar trial with Johnny Cochran and Mark Geragos parading on the courthouse steps getting paid with tax payer money. 
We need a 2 cent 7.62mm bullet, a $60 sks and just one able bodied volunteer to take care of justice in this case.
Just my thoughts.

cootkiller


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Hey fireball... I think it said the guys went to the cabin first to ask if anybody was supposed to be in the stand, they were told no one was to be in that stand and went to see what was up....

Damn it's a hell of a note... My condolences go out to the families.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

My prayers for the families ......


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

eskay,

I tried to post a reply earlier today but my PC locked and it was lost. I basically wanted to offer my condolences for the people involved and my appreciation for your efforts to lay out a coherent time-line for us all.

Now, I came back to post about a story so severely slanted on ABC only to find additional posts doing somewhat the same. Here is the link to the ABC story: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=276960

Why are we debating the details that have been reported from the sheriff's office?

Why do people second guess so many things?

One fact remains clear, six people are now dead, murdered by one individual, and that should never have happened. Over the past six or so months, I have read with interest here and elsewhere about issues with the Hmong obeying the law - specially wildlife laws - and now the press and others are looking to make exceptions for their conduct.

Whether you are a citizen, immigrant or tourist, you are subject to the laws of the land you are in - in this case, Wisconsin and the USA. Personally and professionally, I am tired of "exceptions being granted for everyone due to their childhood, their war experiences (I never left Texas), their family of origin, etc. I too have had my share of "pain & suffering," over the last decade for sure, BUT I do not look for allowances to be made on my behalf, and neither should society as a rule.

Yes, I like to live by the Golden Rule but I also like to preach the "Three R's" as I see them:

1. Do what is RIGHT.
2. Be RESPECTFUL.
3. Be RESPONSIBLE.

We are all human and are prone to mistakes, BUT from ALL appearances here, this situation and deadly results would never have happened even if someone made a mistake - it had to be due to someone consciously making a decision to do something - in this case murder a number of people far away from anyone else, in an area that is isolated, and where no one even knows you were there.

This is a simple case and if I am wrong, I will retract some of what I have said above.

It isn't about the gun.

It isn't about a person from the Hmong tribe.

It isn't about someone who doesn't understand English or the laws of the land.

It isn't about responding to unconfirmed verbal assualt.

It isn't about defending yourself.

IT IS ABOUT someone who consciously shot at eight other individuals, only one who was armed. Simple...

PS Maverick, you make a point I did in my post that never made it on this thread - how come he was never arrested or held accountable by local authorities for threatening others with a firearm (documented by MN police) or the like. This so much reminds me of Jeffrey Dahmer and how the young oriental man who he had drugged, escaped naked, only to be returned to him by the police! Then "Jeff" had his way with the poor man's remains.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

From the GF Herald....7/9/04

Six anglers from St. Paul face misdemeanor charges for keeping 598 white bass in a single day - 388 more than their daily limit allowed - while fishing Devils Lake last week near Minnewaukan, N.D.

Charged in connection with the July 1 incident were Chane T. Moua, 19; Anthony Vang, 20; Kaven Kongchee Vang, 19; Peter Vang, 26; Xu Vang, 45; and William Yang, 21; all of St. Paul. The six are scheduled to appear Monday in Benson County District Court.

Is this guy from the same family?
Or is this just a common Hmong name?


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Fox news just reported that the perp. claims he was fired upon first and was called many racial slurs before he killed 6 people and wounded 2.

There you have it, self defense, this piece of dog crap is already playing his hand!! :eyeroll:


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

:sniper: --------------- :dead: 
just my :2cents:
I just can't believe that he was using self defense when there was only one other gun there. While being kick out of the stand he could see that there was only one other gun. Living in the country for 20 years leads me to believe that he knew what was going on. Had he been shot at first, he wasn't hit. Then opening fire (well knowing there was only one gun there), and killing 6 people with out a gun. When he saw people on 4 wheelers he opened fire on them. That's not self defense.......that's insane!!!


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

NO KIDDING!! :evil: Self defense is now killing 7 unarmed people, half of them weren't even their in the first place, not to mention most of them were scattered around, running as he chased them down to finish them.

:sniper: :bowdown:


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Yeah, I don't think the whole self defense case stands a chance even though we will foot the bill for it. He shot most of them who were unarmed and in the back. Vang's statements:



> Vang said he removed the scope from his rifle and began firing, continuing to shoot as the group scattered. He said one of the victims, Joey Crotteau, tried to run away, but Vang chased him, got within 20 feet and shot him in the back. Crotteau, 20, was killed. Willers was wounded and was listed in fair condition Tuesday.
> 
> Vang said as he began to run, an ATV with two people drove past and he fired three or four times, causing both people to fall off the machine. He said that he looked up the trail, saw that one of the men was standing, yelled, "You're not dead yet?" and fired one more shot in the man's direction. He said he did not know if he hit the man or not.


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## Hitch (Oct 19, 2004)

FYI
Here is a pdf file copy of Vang's actual "probable cause statement" filed today.

http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/n ... dits01.pdf

Very scary. He admits to chasing down the father/son and shooting them, plus shooting the other guy in the back. He claims that two people had guns, but only one was found on the scene.

I do not doubt his description of the racial slurs, as apparently there have been many many complaints by that areas landowners in regards to asians disregarding posted signs and hunting private lands over the last few years.


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## bear05 (Nov 4, 2004)

What a f$&*ing gem. Anyone who does this has to be insane. In his story he says a shot was fired at him and landed 30 to 40 feet in front of him. # 1 i think that if any of those hunters were firing a rifle or a shotgun for that case at him it would have came a little closer than 30 or 40 feet. My opinion but i smell BS. And as for how people who are not hunters view hunters that is just bad news for many of us because of one mans actions.

My prayers also go out to all of the families.


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## hoosier dhr (Jul 24, 2003)

Where are u guys seeing SKS's for $60 I had a gunsmith offer me $395 for mine and ive seen them in gun stores for $200 to $500 (Romainian to Russian) mine is a Russian in great condition. I hunt ground hogs and coyotes with it.


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

I am not sure if this was posted in the forum.

A fund has been set up for the families of the victims and survivors of Sunday's shooting. Donations can be sent to: Rice Lake Hunters Survivors and Victims Fund, Dairy State Bank, 16 S. Main St., Rice Lake, WI 54868


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Gun shops in Ga sell SKS's for around 80.00 they often have a crates of them I bought one for a friend of mine that likes that kind of stuff.


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## Gunner (Oct 30, 2002)

I'm finding the victims story implausible that they "asked" the man to get out of the tree stand and "asked" him to leave the property and he turned around and started firing unprovked. I find Vang's story entirely plausable and probable that they shot first--probably a warning shot meant to scare the hell out of him. He definitely deserves the harshest penalty for hunting down the others.

If someone fired a warning shot at me in this type of situation, you'd better believe I would put a round CM and assess the situation for additional threats.


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## fireball (Oct 3, 2003)

That is the feeling I get as well. It doesn't take 5 guys to ask one person to leave. It seems that it had become the mob rules mentallity, instead of politely asking someone leave thing. The guy was lost, he was crazy to begin with and someone lit the fuse. I imagine in his moment of insanity he felt like he started something he had to finish, to walk away without being caught, so he went after the whole bunch. Who knows what goes through the mind of unstable people once they snap. I also have read stories of the tension among landowners and the Hmong in Minnesota and Wisconsin. The Hmong do not have an understanding, or chose to ignore our game and fish laws, or land access for that matter.

:sniper:


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## okiehmoob (Nov 24, 2004)

"The Hmong do not have an understanding, or chose to ignore our game and fish laws, or land access for that matter. "

So all Americans have an understanding, and abide by those rules? I am Hmong or if some of you will actually consider, American. And reading so many other msgboards, the Hmong are a group of people, like...Sioux, Swiss, German, not a religion. People who have no experience in racial confrontations don't know what it's like. They always say don't turn this into a racial issue. But most of the time it is a racial issue. I've read many of your posts regarding this matter, and I have to say, I respect alot of you for logical reasonings and thinking. I believe he was provoked and shot at first, and he returned fire. But about the slayings of the others, he is guilty of murder. The threat had already been neutralized. There are many other stories you don't hear about, because they don't escalate beyond words. But there are a few that end up with shots fired. I'm from Tulsa, OK, but been living here in Minnesota for 2 yrs. There is alot of tension I guess because of the concentration of asians here. I only experienced one racial encounter down south when my brother and I went to a public range and a group of white shooters, kept on shooting our targets and looking our way. Boy, did that stir up some blood. But we kept our cool and just left. My brothers been a member of a private range ever since. He's been hunting by himself for a few years now and has never encountered anything like this. I just had to put to rest the mainstream view that the south is the most racist part of the country. 
No one knows the truth about the details that led up to the murders except the people involved. But the fact is, most of them were murdered, and my thoughts and wishes goes out to the families.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

*okiehmoob*Thank you for your post


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Okiehmoob -

Sorry that your first post on this website has to be about this matter and the tensions surrounding it. By all means stick around for the better conversations.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> I just had to put to rest the mainstream view that the south is the most racist part of the country


 :beer: 
I couldn't agree more the misconception that the south is racist is a holdover from the old south and certianly not true today. Our states have large populations of asians, blacks, mexicans ect. and we are really much more accustomed to living with other races than many rural northerners who live in a more mono-culture environment. That being said there is a huge problem in many immigrant communities where they resist melting into the melting pot and want to retain their language and cultural habits,ect. This is a fairly recent twist ( historically speaking) on immigration situations and it contributes to the problems that exists between the groups. Hopefully these things will gradually change. Political correctness has once again slowed the process that used to handled with common sense, we should respect other races but we should also expect them to melt into American society when they become citizens. Here in Georgia we have large populations of Mexicans who contribute to our robust economy but who also have their own TV stations and live together in enclaves of the city which lessens the need to learn english and slows the assimilation into the American culture, this hurts them and us. When you move to another country to enjoy its freedoms and opportunities you should adopt and respect its culture not reject it. And I like Mexicans I'm just using a local example that I'm familiar with. There are 30 million immigrants in the US and estimates are that 10 million are illegals we need to find a good way to deal with that also. We sure need to start working together on these issues as soon as possible. Unfortunately most politicians are afraid to really address the issues squarely.


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## okiehmoob (Nov 24, 2004)

Yeah, too bad my first post had to be on the murders. I just felt it was time to stop lurking and do some damage control on the the part of the Hmong community. He was one man out of many.
It's our time now to face the culture clash. The Irish had their share, the blacks had their share, the Mexicans, now it's the Hmongs. If you frequent other boards, people are saying burn down their businesses, and the "huomongs" better watch out ( gee they can't even get it right ). I just hope this situation gets resolved without any problems outside the court room. 
Well good day guys, my family and I are leaving for Okie to visit my parents for Thanksgiving.
Happy Holidays.

God bless.


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## Bert (Sep 11, 2003)

Six humans trapped by happenstance
in black and bitter cold
each one possessed a stick of wood 
or so the story's told

Their dying fire in need of logs 
the first man held his back
for on the faces round the fire
he noticed one was black

The next man looking cross the way
saw on not of his church
and couldn't bring himself to give 
the fire his stick of birch

The third man just sat back and thought
of the wealth he had in store
and how to keep what he had earned
from the lazy shiftless poor

The poor man sat in tattered clothes
he gave his coat a hitch
why should his log be put to use 
to warm the idle rich

The blackmans face bespoke revenge
as the fire passed from sight
for all he saw in his stick of wood
was a chance to spite the white

The last man of this forlorn group
did not except for gain
giving only to those who gave
was how he played the game

Their logs held tight in deaths still hands
was proof of hunan sin
they didn't die from cold without
they died from cold within


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## fireball (Oct 3, 2003)

Dont' get me wrong fella's, I am the farthest thing from racist. I am just observing the facts that in the past five years the Hmong hunting/fishing communities disregard for our game and fish laws and property rights has been quit obvious. They come here from a country that has no game laws and trespassing doesn't exist. They are used to their old country ways and continue to use them here as well. I could care less if they are green, blue, red, from space or whatever...my point is, they are a source of problems in the outdoor world. They need to be educated, and as a matter of fact, there was a great article in the star tribune about a Hmong game warden in MN who teaches Hunters Safety to members of the Hmong community in the Twin Cities. The very last thing he tells them when they are done, is, "don't give me excuses that you don't know the laws when I catch you breaking them in the field." He acknowledges that this transplanted culture lives by the old world laws of hunting and fishing, and they have a hard time adjusting accordingly. So, once again, it was not a racial statement, but an observation of past occurences linked to a small population that is having a hard time adjusting to our laws, that is all, nothing more. :sniper:


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

Bobm, okiehmoob, etc.,

There are a lot of valid points in these discussions BUT the bottom-line is at least four (4) people were hunted down and murdered. According to reports here and on various (slanted reporting) news sites, he was trespassing, told to leave, and then either:

(a)	Returned fire, or 
(b)	Opened fire BUT that was as a result of the "meeting" with the first two people and not surrounded by a group, as they came in response to cries for help.

For the record I am a Caucasian, born in Illinois, and 51 years of age (act 19). Since I was 12, I have been exposed to and the recipient (myself) of numerous racial attacks from Blacks, Orientals and Hispanics. You heard me correctly, "I was the recipient" of verbal and physical attacks by members of ALL three here in Illinois, in Texas and in California to name a few places. Did I ever get a gun or other weapon and go after someone? Never in my wildest fantasies would I have dreamed to do so.

(PS I have also been verbally and physically attacked by other Caucasions too. I just consider all of it a part of Life)

Have people made "EXCEPTIONS" for me due to my color, race, or the like? Probably, but not like what so many demand they deserve nowadays. Sure, I am a little "weird" at times but that is not what I am referring to. After all these confrontations and attacks during the last 39 years (unprovoked I might add) do I consider myself a racist or very-biased - NO WAY!!!

However, I am more aware of my environment and others around me. Have I used "racial slurs"? Of course I have, BUT only when referencing an event, or the like; and only once (1972) to someone BUT that was because he called me a "Honky" and I was kinda tickled he did and said, "I guess I ought to call you a N&#8230;.. But I wont." Why, because I go by an old adage, "sticks and stones may break my bones BUT words will never hurt me!" About the only things that set me off is when someone attacks my friends or family AND NEVER, EVER slap me in the face!

I was a teen in the 60's and watched how America transformed. Where people started to believe they were owed something, that exceptions HAVE to be made because of something in their life, and what had been considered outrageous and poor behavior was now acceptable.... and so on.

Bobm, I like what you wrote and how you feel. I am in Chicago a lot for business and personal, and it use to be that even though there were enclaves within cities of specific ethnic or racial populations, where they maintained many things from their culture, THEY still tried to learn English, learn the laws, and make a better life for themselves than what they left behind. We are not a homogenous society but we are a Darn sight closer than most and would have been a lot better off and farther ahead if we hadn't been making all these exceptions for so many years...

I repeat what I said in a prior post, and that is I feel very sorry for the young man of oriental descent and his remaining relatives after the police returned him to Dahmer in Milwaukee when he escaped his clutches. I use to want to be a cop when I was kid like a lot of us but I cannot imagine being one now. Too many standards to follow that are constantly changing - not evolving. Now, if MN had a law that whenever there is a domestic dispute and a firearm is involved, and he wasn't arrested - regardless of his wife pressing charges - then someone else made an exception&#8230;

This guy wasn't lost UNTIL after he ran out of bullets. He was in violation of the law by virtue of trespassing. Period. He has been here over 20 years and probably hunted more than one time, so he would be aware of the difference between private and public property. There is no need for in-depth analysis of his psychological and emotional make-up. He is an adult and unfortunately has been living in a society for over 25-years that tells everyone how sorry we are for whatever has happened to you in your life and we will take that into consideration when we make additional exceptions. Sure, there will be times when others will intrude on your life and cause you grief (that use to be simply referred to as "Life") but then we will make more exceptions&#8230;

I am sorry to sound so harsh, but like a lot of Americans who found out they actually have a little common sense, I just am tired of it all. Sorry we moved in and forced the Indians out. Sorry we brought over slaves. Sorry we used people to accomplish goals in the military overseas and then brought them over here to save them from retribution. Sorry that so many ethnicities, religions and the like ALL OVER the world just "can't get along." BUT at least here in America WE TRY to have a better life than what ever place someone came from. Sure, there are some bad apples here too BUT we have laws to begin whittling them out of the herd so to say - it just takes time.

It aint a perfect world here in America either but as a nation you will never find a better group of people anywhere else. People who consciously strive to make a better life for them selves and allow others to do so too - all except outfitters that is (semi-joke)!

I hope I haven't offended anyone, and sorry for the rant, but for some reason I am on a high-horse about this and will fight others who are trying to either re-write history regarding this event AND have already shot off emails to news web sites regarding their "slanted" story-telling. The accused could be white, black, yellow, brown, protestant, devil-worshipper; whatever, I would still be mad and fighting how others are painting a picture that defies common sense and reason.

Let the show begin - again!

PS Welcome okiehmoob to the site. Please tell us a little more about your self if you would and feel free to contact me direct with questions or the like. :beer:


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## joneser (Nov 25, 2004)

I've been following the Vang murders closely since I first heard about them, closely watching how the media has reported this tragedy, and trying to gain as many perspectives (from both hunters and non-sportsmen alike) on them as I can. As a group, I suspect that many hunters have similar feelings about what happened.

The vast majority of us have, at one point or another, been confronted in the field by another hunter, party, landowner, etc. Most of us (particularly those of us speaking from a Minnesota perspective) understand the disadvantages of hunting crowded public land, and realize how protective private property owners become during deer season. 
We know that wandering onto private property this time of year is not taken lightly.

We realize that tempers can flare when months of preparation are rendered useless by the selfishness, incompetence, or sheer ignorance of other hunters. We know what it's like being beat to a spot, or having every deer in the section spooked out by a crowd of half-drunk jokers who venture into the woods one day a year.

Despite the way we are portrayed in the mainstream media, most of us also believe in the fundamental values of opportunity and equality that this country was founded on. Most hunters realize that we live in a changing world, and that as more recent immigrant groups assimilate into our culture, we are bound to see them in the field. While non-sportsmen often lump us with rebel flags, barfights, and a variety of "politically incorect" attitudes and activities, hunters represent a broad cross-section of our society, so tragically illustrated by the perpatrator and victims of this crime.

Asside from the unmeasurable loss the families of the victims of the Vang murders, the deaths of the victims themselves, and the scar this masacre will leave on the community for decades to come, other reprocussions will doubtlessly stem from this event.

Of course, the first thing the news picked up on was the fact that Vang was shooting an SKS. FOX 9 had a special report on the air about the weapon Vang used before they had any background on him at all. Regardless of what kind of gun Vang shot, six people are dead. All but one of his victims were unarmed; he could have used a single shot to execute these people once he shot the only hunter carrying a gun. None the less, I'm sure Sarah Brady and (insert names here) will use this as ammo for future gun control legislation.

Asside from the gun issue (which is probably the least of our concerns) this case will continue to produce bad P.R. for hunters for some time. In today's sanitized, sugar-coated, foo-foo world, name-calling is a serious offense that will call your character into question faster than infidelity, addiction, and corruption combined. Granted, racial slurs are an ugly remnant of times gone by, and should not have been dircted towards Vang. Whether or not there is any merit to his claims that he was called a "****", "*****", or a (explitive) Asian may never be known - the witnesses are dead.

The real travesty here is that many non-sportsmen following this story (particularly those from urban-core areas, especially high-income, well-educated, "trendy" young adults) will percieve the victims of this crime as racist ******** who maliciously threatened Vang to the point that, in fear of his life, he shot them all in self-defense.

Clearly fabricated in order to solicit the sympathy of the reality-television watching public, Vang's defense seems almost comical in light of his actions. Unfortunately, there are a LOT of people watching this (i.e. the gay-marriage supporting segment of society) who will believe Vang's story simply because he is a minority alleging racial discrimination (even though tresspass laws apply to all, red or yellow, black or white). Sadly, just as in the O.J. Simpson case, the heinous reality of this crime will be obscured by courtroom theatrics that amount to nothing more than racial politics.

Public reaction to the Vang murders has been unusual; it is almost as if people are unwilling to discuss what happened in fear of being labeled a racist. This uneasy silence in the context of a primarily non-hunting urban center (the Twin Cities) is somewhat frightening. Though it is usually the responsibility of artists, musicians, and other supposedly free-thinkers to rally against conformity, a voice for these victims must be heard. The Hmong community has stepped forward and publicly condemned the actions of Vang. No one should hesitate to condem this psychopath, lest the cancer of political correctness will finally silence another fundamental right - free speech.


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

joneser,

Amen to all you said. I couldn't (and didn't) have said it better. And that is why for the first time in MANY years, I have been shooting off email responses to articles I have read from major media outlets, to express myself and on behalf of the murdered. That includes letters to ABC (USA), NY Times (spit), and the Guardian (England).

I have tried to bring back the focus onto the murdered and not on the firearm or the accused's ethnicity.

I have no idea why this has struck me so deep but it has and I will continue to openly speak out about it. The media ought to review the above posts for an excellent, semi-objective perspective that the "silent majority" is thinking but not talking...

For all on the Forum, please hug your children, your adult family members, and give thanks for their being in your life.

All my best to each and every one of you on this day of Thanksgiving.

Bob Zettler


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## Quackkills9 (Oct 25, 2004)

It also states that this man could be involved with the 2001 killing a hunter over the same thing AND in the same area aroudn 4-8 miles.. reported that a similar truck like Changs was involved this year and 2001 he had a license for that area in 2001..... and people who identied the people who shot the hunter in 2001 were reported as they were 3 asian man... could be related with Chang this year... so they are still investigating if this man was involved in 2001 also. so we will see what happens.

Sorry this post is not clear but i read in the papers, wish i could copy some of it and post it up here. It was in the GF herald.


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## TANATA (Oct 31, 2003)

I hope this investigation and trial is short and sweet. Year long court battles are getting really old.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincitie ... 091.htm?1c


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

My deepest sympathies go out to the loved ones of the 6 murder victims.

I truly believe Chai Soua Yang when out hunting with a huge chip on his shoulder. He was prepared for a confrontation and I am sure looking for one. This man knew exactly where he was and what he was doing. I don't think he was shot at first, he is a murderer and from his cold-blooded actions has probably killed before. I hope to see swift justice in this case. I would love to help pay the electric bill to fry this one.

*IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE MATCHES CAUSE ARSON!*


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## GunRunner (Oct 18, 2004)

read in the paper today that the guy said the whole thing started over the guys who were killed 'supposedly" throwing racial slurs around and taking a shot at him first...........


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

I just cannot seem to let go of this. Here is what I wrote the newspaper cited above after reading their editorial/article:

To Whom It May Concern:

With regard to the story (http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincitie ... 273351.htm) by JENNIFER BJORHUS, and subtitled "Race tension in Rice Lake mostly subtle" under the inflammatory headline, "Wisconsin hunter shooting spree", you have not only done a great job of casting an unfounded slanderous air on the people who live in the two communities mentioned, but also upon ALL people who hunt, and ought to be ashamed!

This reads more like an editorial by this writer, who then cites others to back up her apparent underlying hypothesis that:

a) These two communities are a source for "racially motivated hate crime or a case of racial harassment" due to the nature and makeup of their population - BUT you cannot cite anything other than a Somalia flag being "defiled" or children referring to another's oriental ethnicity.

b) You continue to cast aspersions against hunters by referring to them either directly, or through others, by "It's not ******* city here" and the murders were over "an apparent dispute over hunting turf." - BUT never mention one simple, primary issue that Mr. Vang was trespassing.

He played the race card and now you at the Pioneer Press are priming the pump to boost his accusations of "racism" in order to make copy or push an agenda (I have to assume).

The primary facts are completely lost in your editorial, I mean article, and that:

a) Mr. Vang had trespassed (an illegal act) and placed himself in an existing tree stand on private property (Has anyone looked into the laws regarding tree stands being left on public land? Think about it.).

b) There was ONLY ONE WEAPON found among the six murdered and two wounded individuals. You continually refer to them as "hunters" and "white" but neglect to add the aforementioned and that one of the murdered was an unarmed woman and another the unarmed son of one of those wounded.

Your "reporting" continues to slander hunters, Caucasians ("dominated by shades of white") that hunt, and the good people of Barron County and Rice Lake without any basis in fact - just quotes from others regarding "what if", "could be", and the capper that this has "a serious potential of...escalating into a racial thing, instead of just a horrific incident." This is the central theme of your article and no where in it can you backup your writer's claims that racism plays ANY part in these communities makeup. Nada.

Finally, I did not know your Newspaper and writer could see into the future and broadcast to the world what you all see. It is too bad for everyone that many - and I mean the majority in the media - seem to forget how to report the news, as they prefer to make the news by virtue of their position in the media. Maybe a new mantra for you all should be "first, do no harm" when you sit down to type a news report...we would all be better off!

Bob Zettler
Chatham, IL

PS Please feel free to contact me with questions.


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## wiscan22 (Apr 4, 2004)

Hey everyone,

Working the midnight shift and have had a bit of time to read this thread. I'm really amazed at some of the responses that people posted. A good example is as follows:



DJRooster said:


> Happy we don't have a lot of Wisconsin hunters around here!!


DJ, Does it really matter where the shooter is from?

How about this one...



Gunner said:


> I'm finding the victims story implausible that they "asked" the man to get out of the tree stand and "asked" him to leave the property and he turned around and started firing unprovked. I find Vang's story entirely plausable and probable that they shot first--probably a warning shot meant to scare the hell out of him. He definitely deserves the harshest penalty for hunting down the others.
> 
> If someone fired a warning shot at me in this type of situation, you'd better believe I would put a round CM and assess the situation for additional threats.


Lets see here Gunner.... 8 people, 6 dead some shot in the back, 2 injured and one gun. Sounds like a real threatening "mob" to me.

Or better yet...



fireball said:


> That is the feeling I get as well. It doesn't take 5 guys to ask one person to leave. It seems that it had become the mob rules mentallity, instead of politely asking someone leave thing. The guy was lost, he was crazy to begin with and someone lit the fuse. I imagine in his moment of insanity he felt like he started something he had to finish, to walk away without being caught, so he went after the whole bunch. Who knows what goes through the mind of unstable people once they snap. I also have read stories of the tension among landowners and the Hmong in Minnesota and Wisconsin. The Hmong do not have an understanding, or chose to ignore our game and fish laws, or land access for that matter.


I can't or won't speak for Minnesota but will speak for Wisconsin. Actually, the Hmong have been and continue to be received quite well where I live and I live in one of the first "host" cities. I have two Hmong families as next door neighbors and they're great neighbors. I also sell real estate and have had an almost zero problems with rascism, racist remarks or tensions when Hmong move into a neighborhood. I've got "white" friends that hunt with Hmong.... without any problems. No, Wisconsin is by no means 100% nonracist but I think your statement on tensions and mob mentalities is greatly exaggerated.

A couple facts about Vang....

1.) He's been living in America for a number of years(1980) and "speaks and seems to understand the english language quite well".

2.) Is a naturalized citizen and served in the US Army.

3.) Qualified as a sharpshooter in the California National Guard.

4.) He was arrested on Christmas Eve in 2001 after his wife, Say Xiong, told police he had threatened her life while he waved a handgun at her. Police seized the weapon, loaded, with a shell in the chamber, from the couple's bedroom.

5.) Has been convicted of misdemeanor trespassing in Minnesota.

6.) Owns his own land (40 acre parcel) in Minnesota.

Although none of these prove guilt which is NOT the intent they do shed light on the fact that Mr. Vang was not a newcomer, obviously knew how to handle a firearm, obviously understands trespassing and landownership.

A short time after this happened another man was arrested for assaulting a landowner after being confronted for trespassing. The man alledgedly struck the landowner in the face with the stock of his gun breaking his nose and blackening an eye. Worse yet is there was a 16 year old involved. These guys were white which means that this type of violence is not specifically a "Hmong" problem.

Currently, I would say it's a pretty safe bet to say the only people who know what happened are the ones who were there when this horrific tragedy occurred. Until we find out all of the facts I think the best thing we can do as hunters and outdoorspersons is to pray for those who so senselessly perished and also for their families who have to bear the brunt of a tragic loss.


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

wiscan22,

Can you cite where you learned about points 4, 5 and 6? I would love to have the correct references for when I point out media bias or poor reporting. Thanks!

For anyone who wants to, the police report is on-line at: http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincitie ... 255877.htm

You will need to register to read though.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Vang has three big time Milwaukee lawyers replacing the public defenders he originally retained.

No comment on who is paying his bills. I imaging they are providing services cheaply or for free.

Change of venue, who shot first, race .... all issues now.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincitie ... 704.htm?1c

excerpts:

The attorneys, speaking publicly for the first time Sunday, said the case is in its infant stages. With charges against Chai Soua Vang expected today, they declined to talk about the details of what happened on Nov. 21 when eight hunters were shot in the woods near Rice Lake, Wis., six of them fatally, allegedly during a confrontation over a deer stand.

"This is not California, this is Wisconsin. We plan on trying this case in court, not in the media," said Steven Kohn, a high-profile defense attorney who represented the prison killer of Jeffrey Dahmer.

Meanwhile, the last of the funerals are expected today, for Dennis Drew and Jessica Willers in Rice Lake.

Kohn; his partner Jonathan Smith, who has represented former Green Bay Packer Mark Chmura; and James Mentkowski, a hunter who has a 10-year relationship with the Hmong community, were hired late Wednesday to represent Chai Soua Vang.

On Sunday, the attorneys - along with Chai Soua Vang's eldest daughter - all offered condolences to the deer hunters' families one week after the shootings that have shaken the community and deer hunting culture. They said there are more questions than answers.

Chai Soua Vang, 36, of St. Paul was arrested hours after the shootings. Court papers state he admitted firing the lethal shots, saying the hunters fired first and made racist comments.

"This certainly does not seem to be a whodunit. It seems to be a 'Why?' " Kohn said.

Kohn traveled with Mentkowski to Hayward, Wis., on Thanksgiving Day to meet with Chai Soua Vang. On Sunday, Kohn would not discuss legal fees or how he, Smith and Mentkowski came to represent Chai Soua Vang, except to say that he had not made the initial contact.

The attorneys have worked on a number of big cases. Smith helped former Packers tight end Chmura get a trial venue change and win an acquittal in a 2001 sexual assault case. Kohn represented Christopher Scarver, who killed serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer 10 years ago at Columbia Correctional Institution in Portage, Wis.

Because of the intense national interest in the hunters' slayings, Chai Soua Vang's attorneys said they have been inundated with questions. They haven't had time to answer, so they called a news conference. But during the 45-minute gathering with reporters Sunday in Milwaukee, the attorneys said they would not answer any specific questions about Chai Soua Vang, the incident or any statements made by him or investigators.

"We are in the infant stages of this case. I'm sure prosecutors, investigators and our team are gathering information at this point. We don't have all the information, and I'm not sure they have all that information. And so there are a lot of questions that simply cannot be answered because we are so early in the process."

Their client's daughter Kia Vang made a short statement, but attorneys would not allow any questions to be asked of her.

"I too would like to express my condolences to the family members. All our families are experiencing hardship at this time and we all have questions," she said. She has not spoken to her father since his arrest. "My father, he is a good person, and he does take care of his family and love his family very much. &#8230; I'm shocked and don't know what to say, but the truth will eventually come out one way or another."

Kohn, an attorney for 27 years, said the team of lawyers took the case not because it is high profile, but to help answer questions.

"Clearly this is a case of great importance. Everyone is asking: Why and how did this happen?" Kohn said.

Chai Soua Vang's defense team will consider seeking a change of venue and will pursue all defense options, including mental health, the lawyers said.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

I think the guy was mentally a bit unstable to begin with looking at his prior record. If I am correct only Vang and Terry Willers know exactly what happened and it looks like one word against anothers at this point. In my own opinion I think Vang had a short fuse and his buttons got pushed whether he was shot at first or not. Vang's story is wierd because he comes right out and admits to running down and shooting them in the back but yet claimed he shot the two on the 4 wheeler and that the one driving was pulling a rifle off of his shoulder when he shot both of them, yet the only rifle found at the sight was by Mark Roidt who was not one of these 2. The whole thing su--- and I feel for every family member. I also feel sorry for the Hmong who do abide by the laws and are good ethical hunters. It's unfair to blame an entire race of people for some of the actions of the bad apples and from the sounds of it, in some areas the Hmong were advised to forfeit the rest of their season for safety reasons.


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## wiscan22 (Apr 4, 2004)

zettler said:


> wiscan22,
> 
> Can you cite where you learned about points 4, 5 and 6? I would love to have the correct references for when I point out media bias or poor reporting. Thanks!
> 
> ...


Hey zettler,

Here's the best I can do...

4 - http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/du ... 250305.htm

5 - http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov04/278452.asp

I was in error on the trespass. The trespass occurred in Wisconsin in 2002. Vang was cited in Minnesota for a fishing violation.

6 - Was reported in the Herald times reporter (our local paper) which does not have an archive search.


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## eskay (Aug 21, 2004)

Here's the latest reports from Sawyer County:

When the police first approached Vang, the first statement he made was that when confronted, one of the group took his gun from him and shot the other hunters in his group. It was only later that he said he shot in self-defense. (Surprise, surprise).

Of the deceased hunters, Robert Crotteau was shot once in the lower back, Roy Crotteau was shot 4 times in the back, Jessica Willers was shot twice in the back, and Al Laski was shot numerous times in the back. Denny Drew has shot laterally through the abdomen. No report on the shooting of Roidt.

The DA has filed 6 counts of first-degree murder and 2 counts of attempted murder.

The last two funerals were yesterday, and there is a memorial service tonight at the high school. I drove by the funeral home on Sunday night as the visitation was going on for Denny Drew, and the line of people waiting to pay respects was over two blocks long in 15 degree weather.

Hopefully after tonight, the town can get a bit of closure, but this will haunt everyone for a long time.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Well eskay thanks for the update and I hope you and everyone in your community a speedy recovery from such a shocking event. I had two friends die during deer season here and I know it sure puts a downer on hunting for awhile. Anyway I wish you well and much good fortune in your future.


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

Thank you both (eskay and wiscan22) for providing facts and related links to support the facts. I just shot an email off to the reporter (Tom Held) who wrote about the facts commending him for his efforts and encouraging him to continue to report and not editorialize like so many others have.

Here is the link to the criminal complaint just filed: http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov0 ... 112904.pdf

It is a PDF file, so you will need Adobe Reader to view.

And here is the link to the statement that eskay summarized so well above: http://www.jsonline.com/graphics/news/i ... dits01.pdf

Thank you both for your efforts to present the facts and keep us all informed.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Associated Press - 12/30/2004

By JOSHUA FREED

Associated Press Writer

HAYWARD, Wis. - A man accused of opening fire on hunters who confronted him about trespassing, killing six of them and wounding two others, pleaded not guilty to the shootings today.

Chai Soua Vang, 36, of St. Paul waived his right to a preliminary hearing and will stand trial on six counts of first-degree intentional homicide and three counts of attempted homicide stemming from the shootings on Nov. 21 -- the second day of the annual gun deer season.

Prosecutors added the third count of attempted homicide Wednesday, accusing Vang of making two distinct attempts to kill one hunter.

Judge Norman Yackel continued bail for Vang, a Hmong immigrant, at $2.5 million. A trial date was tentatively set for Sept. 12.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Not guilty!!!!???? The guy admitted to the shootings. Talk about an open and shut case, what the??


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## win4win (Sep 8, 2003)

Goldy's Pal said:


> Not guilty!!!!???? The guy admitted to the shootings. Talk about an open and shut case, what the??


Self defense. :evil: :eyeroll: uke: :******:


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Your kidding....

He got away with it?!?!? what the hell is this world coming to? he admited to shooting 6 people IN THE BACK as they ran, and its self defence? I am seriously going to throw up now.

I hate what America has become. just sickening.


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

His trial hasn't even begun...

At his plea hearing he PLEADED "not Guilty"

That is all that has happened. Let's not put the cart in front of the horse yet.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

*Chai Vang pleaded not guilty to nine charges.*

The man who's accused of killing six hunters in Sawyer County has been charged again. Chai Vang was back in court on Wednesday. He's charged with six counts of homicide and two counts of attempted homicide. Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager added another attempted homicide charge on Wednesday. She says Vang tried to kill Lauren Hesebeck twice. Vang pleaded not guilty to all of the charges. His lawyers say they have not ruled out trying to move the trial out of Sawyer County and they're also looking at a possible insanity defense. "That plea can be entered at any time. I can tell you that we have begun investigating that. We've talked to experts. Experts have talked to Mr. Vang and that is an ongoing process," said Steve Kohn, the defense attorney. Lautenschlager urged the media and the public to remember the victims and their families as this case moves forward. "The family members have been very strong. They are wonderful people and the only thing I would ask of all of you is that you give them a lot of space," said Lautenschlager. Vang's next court appearance will be in April. *His trial has been scheduled to begin on September 12th.*

*He didn't get away with it yet! Insanity case? The way the man murdered these people clearly shows he has killed in cold blood before!*


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

GOOD! I WAS WORRIED THERE FOR A SECOND!

Not guilty...yea.


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## the_rookie (Nov 22, 2004)

its horrible theres no way hes going to get away with it none what so ever hes going to prison and thats final


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Naw rookie us liberals were planning on letting him back into public next month.


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

Now this thread has been continued here: http://nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtop ... 937#133937


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