# 175 gr. vs. 180 gr.



## rifleman2 (Feb 3, 2008)

is the 175 grainer out of the 7mm rem. magnum a more lethal bullet than the 180 grain out of the .30-06? will the 180 grain outpenetrate the 175 and be more destructive or would it be the other way around? this goes for all distances. i like the .30-06 because it will carry heavier bullets. i kn ow it will shorten the range also. i read one time the 220 grainer will drive about as deep as the 275 grain .375 hh. at short range of course. i'm looking to see how well the 7mm stacks up against the .30-06. is it a more lethal cartridge?


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Really the true difference is in bullet construction and design. Thus when comparing you have to look at more than simply the grain of the bullet. For example a 180 gr Rem Coreloc is not going to perform the same as a Barnes TSX of equal weight.

So my suggestion is to get on the Mfg web sites and look at the types of bullet they are using and then look at comparisons of equal or almost equal speed and and bullet type.

I say this because some bullets are designed for down range performance and will perform very poorly on an animal shot at 50 yards.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

If you compare apples to apples, meaning same basic bullets and velocities, the 7mm should penetrate deeper given it's higher sectional density. All else being equal, the bullet that is longer, relative to it's diameter, will penetrate better. But as Ron has pointed out...it's not that simple. I personally believe that NOTHING is more important than bullet choice, so be sure to do your homework.

There is another thread that is comparing the 7 mag to the '06 you might want to check out.


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## Bernie P. (Sep 25, 2008)

You can get a little better penetration with the 7mag but you wont see any difference whatsoever in killing power.With either cal (or any other for that matter) using a proper load along with shot placement is key to clean kills/minimal meat damage.No amount of power/penetration will make up for that.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

All else being equal, the 175 grain 7MM bullet has a much higher BC than the 180 grain 30 cal so will give flatter trajectory, shed velocity more slowly, and because of it's high SD, will penetrate better.

Bear in mind though this isn't an "all else being equal" comparison as with any comparable bullet weight a 7MM Magnum starts out much faster than an 06'. The 7MM Magnum is another power/performance level above the 06', plain & simple...


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## laxratnd (Jan 23, 2008)

You will get a better BC with the 7mm mag. This topic also has to do with the type of bullet you have the length of your barrel. the type of powder and etc. its hard to say but at longer ranges that 7mm mag will win with more potential stopping power.

What are you planning one doing. You trying to decide on a caliber to use or something?

lax


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

You guys want to think about this some more, consider this. It's been mentioned several times this is not as simple as some could assume, but as NDTerminator accurately stated, the main attribute of a higher BC is that it will retain it's velocity better than a lower BC. And one thing many people forget to consider is that holds true in virtually any medium...be it air, water.... or animal matter. Meaning, if a bullet retains it's velocity it's also retaining it's energy, since energy isn't transfered to the animal and then BACK to the bullet as it exits the other side. So even though the books may show you have considerably more energy with your favorite 7mm load it may not necessarily equate to transferring more energy to the animal than a similar .30 load. Now I don't want to start the discussion about whether or not energy kills, but my point is don't get too wrapped up in this mind set of which one is "more powerful", as that does not always equate to better kills.

For what it's worth... :2cents:


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

NDTerminator said:


> All else being equal, the 175 grain 7MM bullet has a much higher BC than the 180 grain 30 cal


IMO and based on the research I have done, that is not necessarily true. It partly depends on bullet brand and depends completely on bullet shape. The 180 I shoot from my 30 cal has a BC of .520. I have not seen a 7mm _hunting_ bullet that will beat it yet, especially in a 175 gr.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Buggy, I think he meant comparable hunting bullets, and I would agree. To me, you compare 160 7mm's to 165 .30's or 175 7mm's to 180 .30's. If you compare same bullets in each caliber I believe the 7mm will have an edge on the .30 in terms of BC *AND* SD. A 180 grain, 30 cal Nosler Partition has a BC of .474 and a SD of .271. A 28 cal 175 grain Partition has a BC of .519 and a SD of .310. Those are sizeable differences.

Where I part ways with many 7mm fans is the belief that the 7mm is so much more "powerful". When each is loaded to it's full potential there isn't that much difference between them.

I hunted with a local in the Wyoming mountians a few years ago, and he proudly proclaimed to be shooting a "7 em em" (as he called it) because it "kills elk a lot better than my old '06". When asked if he had taken an elk with the new rifle, his answer was "not yet". I didn't have the heart to tell him that the .280 I was carrying would most likely leave his factory loaded 7 mag in it's dust, but he was happy....so why bother! :lol:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Csquared, probably none of us will ever have a situation where either of these calibers with a properly placed shot will not do the job we want them to do.

Recently I dived into shooting the Barnes TSX in my 06 and hunted with others that are also. Transfer of energy or hydraulic shock from these rounds amaze me beyond any bullet in any caliber I have ever seen.

I witnessed two gut shot deer where the liver and kidney's where not hit die on the spot or walk a small distance and die. The lungs turned bubbly even though they had not been hit with the round.

I know this is off subject, but my point in all of this is that many get hung up on long range effectiveness of a caliber or bullet and end up putting a round in the guts and lose the animal regardless of what they are shooting. Most have no clue on wind drift, or even angle of shot on POI etc...

I doubt I will be shooting anything but the TSX unless something better comes along and with 168 gr bullets it will take any animal I will ever be hunting.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> Transfer of energy or hydraulic shock from these rounds amaze me beyond any bullet in any caliber I have ever seen.


Energy transfer is an interesting topic. So many believe that because the books say their super magnum has 4000 ft lbs of energy at the point of impact that it follows that they hit the animal with 4000 ft lbs of energy. It's rarely that way, and we don't want it to be. In a perfect world that bullet would leave 3,999 ft lbs in the animal, and use the last pound to roll out the far side! :lol:

Such is the line we walk when choosing a bullet, Ron, and the main point of my posts. It is very complex, and with every benefit comes a price. A bullet that is slippery through the air will also be slippery through the animal unless the bullet is designed to deform. Too much of that results in a fragmented bullet and a lost animal. Not enough results in a pass through with minimal damage...but the location of the animal could still be in question.

I haven't tried the TSX yet, but I have yet to hear anything bad about them. I have gone lead-free with my shotgun slugs, however, and I'll never go back!!!!!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

You understand this issue pretty well and way back in the late 70's when I got my first coyote rifle, I struggled with this issue. in the .22 calibers we where limited on factory ammo over the counter which is all I had access to. So to minimize pelt damage vs using a hollow point we went to the fmj rounds. Granted they entered and exited the animal but they ran off unless you hit the back bone or head and neck.

Two things that are constant is gravity and aerodynamics people tend to forget them to often. While gravity has the same affect on a 175 or 180 gr bullet the aerodynamics of that bullet affect its flight path and how fast it bleeds of speed. I am by no means an expert, but have done enough shooting at extended ranges to understand that most people do not posses the learned skills to be taking advantage of caliber and bullet designs that one caliber offers over another. Instead I suggest they choose a lower recoil option in a caliber and bullet with the capability of doing the job at ranges they can effectively place it.

This will result in them being more affective with the rifle and result in more clean kills. Threads like this bother me when they ask a very general question. It tells me most times that the person asking is of the mind set of winging lead at a target well beyond their skill level simply because the caliber and bullet is able to perform at that range.

I compare this to shotguns who buy HD and Hevi shot because it can kill at 60-80 yards. They think that because the load will kill at that range suddenly they are long range shot gunners.

I know of only a handful of people who are skilled at shooting long range with a shotgun and about the same with a rifle. Back 15 years ago, I would have not thought twice about shooting at 400-500 yards on a deer or elk. Today my range is closer to 300 yards and I like it better if they are closer than that because I no longer put in the same amount of time learning where my bullet is going to hit and knowing how much wind speed and angle of the wind is going to move my choice of bullet off course.

I apologize in advance to the starter of this thread if you do not fit into this profile, but for others who are looking at this and other threads regarding long range advantages stop and think about your skill level first and foremost.

Guys like NDT and Plainsman and others on this site are skilled at this, they have put in the time and training over the years. Most of the rest of us the ballistic advantages of calibers between .25 and .338 will never come into play as our skill levels do not provide the ablity to take advantage of the differences!


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