# Rockin the .17's Cal's



## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

well, DuckP and i went for a 1 1/2 day quickie. seen about 35 coyotes but they were VERY hesitant about coming to the call. 
they are getting pressured for sure. but these got a ride home and ready for the stretchers  
the .17-204's are just flat out killing machines. oke: (for XDeano) oke: oke: 
shot disances were 314,316,352,220,120 and the fox was about 125.
fun time for sure :thumb:


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Good looking bunch of dogs, BH. What type bullet are you using? In my .17 Remington, I'm using the Berger 30-grain FB Varmint. I see on other forums, .17 shooters say the Target variety is much better than the Varmint but the Varmint has been very effective. Shooters seem to think the Varmints are too frangible but I found that's not the case. In fact the last dog I shot with the .17, a broadside from about 175 yards on a 40 1/2 pounder, had the bullet go clear through.

Seems Berger isn't making the 30-grainer or the 25-grain Target any longer. I'll be heading into the city for a large gun show on the weekend so maybe I'll be lucky and find some 30-grainers to build up my supply.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

Sask. we've been shooting Can Nagel bullets in 30 grain the last couple years but as of now, he's not making them and our stash is getting low on them.
i set my new 17-204 up to shoot Berger 25 target/match and have shot about 25 coyotes/20 fox so far with them.
i was very sceptical about them but have found out they are coyote killing sum*****es. have shot a couple at over 400 yards bang/flops. :thumb: 
i've never tried the varmint flavor and don't want too . they are taylor made for small critters.
there are a couple custom .17 makers building bullets again and am waiting to here reports.


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Yeh dem 17's are making me feel 17 again.  And,it's been a few years since I was near that.
I was skeptical as heck about those 25s and have been hoarding my Nagel 30 grainers but was floored seeing Bear 'stone' them over 300 yds with those 25s.
My experience years ago with 25 Hornadys out of a straight 17 Rem was different.What a difference a different bullet and 300 fps makes!I'm no longer hoarding and won't worry about the 25s.
Good hunting all!


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Duck, those 17-204's are damn yote killers for sure. You're going to have to tell me about that DRT tail shot on the second yote from the right. :rollin:

Good luck, shoot straight -- Saskcoyote


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

i'll answer that one. :wink: 
we were driving down a road and came by an abandoned farmstead. a coyote came running out and by the time the truck got stopped on a glare ice gravel road, he was running full out :run: . i jumped out and got 1 shot just as he was going into a dip in the field. skinned him this a.m. and the 25 grainer missed the pooper by 1". and yes, he was DRT!! :thumb: :beer: 
at a lazered 314 full out  
at 4300+fps, those runners are easy :sniper: tip of nose/BANG/whopp :rock:

the 352 yarder was coming straight on but due to the terrain. (tree's in the way), i only had a VERY small window for a shot and a second too do so. bang/flop right in the face :wink:


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## lesser (Nov 13, 2008)

You guys are awesome!!!!!!!!!! Can't believe you can get coyotes!!!


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

:lol:


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

> "i've never tried the varmint flavor and don't want too. they are taylor made for small critters".


BH: I howled like a coyote when I saw your assessment of the 30-grain Berger Varmints. :rollin: It was "deja vu all over again". That's the same thing Deano says about your 17-204 -- "they are taylor made for small critters".

Good luck and shoot straight. :beer:

Saskcoyote


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

Sask.
but he was (is) WRONG0. :thumb: 
Lesser, you still chasin butterflys???>


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I'm still skeptical of the 17's. It is a darn small bullet. I've owned a 17 REM back in the day, shooting.25grn bergers. They were hell on fox but didn't quite get it done on coyotes. It would kill them, but they would typically run a little ways. I'm not much into tracking a trickle of blood for a mile in deep snow. I also don't want to worry about runners if I have multiples come in. I want to kill when the hammer drops so I can move to the next one and not have to worry about the first one. There are just a couple of different thought patterns to choosing a round.

Xdeano


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Dean I hear ya.As my earlier post here said my experience with a straight 17 Rem and 25 grain hornadys was different.Kill em,sometimes plain drop em,but often run or get in a hole or culvert etc.
For me that just hasn't been the case at all with the 17-204.The extra speed and better bullets really makes a difference.Make good hits and it's bang/flop.Most of the time not even flip flops.  
Good hunting!


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

duckp said:


> Make good hits and it's bang/flop.Most of the time not even flip flops."
> 
> That's what I find, too, DP, make good hits and it's bang/flop, "most of the time not even flip flops" regardless of whether I'm shooting the .17, the .204 or the .223. :beer: Now, if I could just roll them 300-plus yard runners. Oh well, my Benchmark barrel apparently has arrived in Canada and I should be getting it within a couple weeks. If you think a 17-204 is a yote smacker, just wait til the 1-in-10 twist .204 starts talking. And best of all, it won't be a Savage. :rollin:
> 
> ...


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I think it has more to do with bullet construction then anything else. velocity isn't much of a difference maybe a couple hundred fps. The 25grn bergers that i had shot were definitely ment for extreme expansion on soft targets, (gophers and pdogs). They also did very well on fox and *****. I gave the last of my ammo to barebackjack. I believe they were in the 4075-4100fps with the 25grn mef's.

The 204 was made out of a tripple duce. the 17 Rem was made out of the 223. There is a little more room in the case of the tripple duce to give it a bit more velocity.

Sask, if you're going to shoot the heavies out of your 204, i would like it. Say the 50-55grn Bergers. I've heard a lot of good things about the 50grn bergers. Plus they have a little higher BC over say a 50grn of a 22cal.

Only thing i'd like more is an 80grn berger coming out of a 22-243 at 3500fps. I've been in the presents of one of those hammers. But it burned out the barrel in around 800 round. The barrel may have had some issues though. It does well on coyotes though, both coyotes that were shot didn't have exit wounds. They were jelly inside though.

I'd still take a heavier bullet over a light one any day of the week. Granted I'm in it to put them on the ground, not to save them. You should see what a 300grn berger does on a coyotes  :lol: I'd post a picture but i didn't take any and i'm not sure you're stomachs could handle it.

xdeano


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

i agree with the bullet construction being key Dean. it took my awhile to make a decision and quite a few pm's and phone calls before i made the decision to do the first 17-204. 
at the time, there were very few that had one (but the list is growing) FAST. :wink: 
those that did, flat out said to shoot only good,target/match bullets for coyotes. . Chan Nagel is .17cal bullet maker that was known to build a superb bullet in 25/30 grain. i decided on the 30's.
first time out 5 coyotes got killed and all were face in the dirt dead. one was about 500 yards.
as of now, ive seen roughly 150 killed between mine and Dicks and i can only think of (maybe) 20 that have even taken 1 step. 
not including leg hits. 
with the new one i just has done,its set up to shoot 25 Berger target/match. so far, about 25 coyote have been shot with those and they have been freeking fantastic as well..i have not crony'd them but am guessing 4300+. 
range time shows: 7/8 high at 100, 1 7/8 at 200, 3/8 low at 300, and about 6"low at 400.
ai'nt many rounds a fellow can find that can hold on fur too 400  
i don't like scopes with all the hash marks,dots,circle,ect. so a straight xhair works very well. 
as for a .17 rem. just from reading/talking to those that have them, it seems that 4000 is about all they can get out of them with a 25 grain bullet. the 20's will get into the 4100 range.
bottom line is: this combo, cartride/bullet, is just a pure paralizing duo  and is so good on fur that its just hard to imagine. :thumb:

my 22-250's and 243's have not even been outside yet this year. they are quite lonely i'm sure 

here's a short clip from a guy that talked me into doing a 17-204. he's shooting a 17 predator here but the 17-204 has a bit more speed and the brass is easier to form. these kills are exactally what what i get too see :beer: (through the scope too) :thumb:


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

bearhunter said:


> i agree with the bullet construction being key Dean. it took my awhile to make a decision and quite a few pm's and phone calls before i made the decision to do the first 17-204.
> at the time, there were very few that had one (but the list is growing) FAST. :wink:
> those that did, flat out said to shoot only good,target/match bullets for coyotes. . Chan Nagel is .17cal bullet maker that was known to build a superb bullet in 25/30 grain. i decided on the 30's.
> first time out 5 coyotes got killed and all were face in the dirt dead. one was about 500 yards.
> ...


That's a good clip.

as for the 4100, i'm pretty darn sure it was right in there with the 25's, it's been 15 years or so since i gave mine up. I'm guessing if i were to shoot the 30's i wouldn't be able to get to 4K, i'm sure it would be close though. I don't doubt that you are holding on fur, with that kind of velocity. The biggest deal with the 17 that i have a hard time with, is that sure they're fast but the shed a lot of energy really fast too. So when you get out there at 500yds that bullet doesn't have much poop left.

please give me an idea of what the bc of the 25's are, velocity (4300), and zero distance is(~275??). I know these are only numbers but I'd like to see how far off i am with retained energy. I'm guessing at 5 you don't have but a little over 100 ft/lbs of nrg.

xdeano


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

So far I've had good luck with the .204 spitting 40-grain Bergers. From what I've heard the 1-10 twist will stabilize up to 50 grains while the 1-12 twist is right on the cusp of whether it can stabilize 40 grains, although the 1-12 twist I have seems to handle the 40 grainers very well. As for shooting 50s, it appears the .204 doesn't throw them out much faster than my .223 matched up with 50 grain TNTs. I'm curious, Deano, what caliber were you slinging those 300 grainers with?


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Dean,
I agree the 17s aren't much of a 500 yd gun.Used to think 300 and in but now have shot and witnessed enuf to know they reliably kill to at least 350 and I wouldn't hesitate to use them to 400.
As you may know I had a 20-250 built after 4jake ran his post on here a couple years back.Ended up going with the 57 gr Unmussigs at a little over 3600 fps.So far the 57s have been 'so-so' on fur but today I had the scenario I built it for happen.Big male hung at 558 yds for about 18 minutes barking and pacing but definitely not coming any farther.Bang/flop!!!  
For you and many on here that's another day at the office but for the old man that's a serious poke.Detached retinas and all.  
Happy in SoDak.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Bearhunter,

I contacted Channing Nagel today during some free time to have a chat with him about his Gen 1 bullets. He's a heck of a nice guy to talk to. It took me a little bit to find his number but i figured it out. For all of those looking for Chan Nagel his number is (208)-267-2860. I asked him about the BC of his bullet and he was very honest about his answer "I don't know". I'd guess it would be around the same as the Bergers with the J4 jacket and all. Maybe slightly different because he puts a different ogive taper on his.

He did say that he talked with Tayler Demars (sp) about acquiring some of his jackets with an estimate of April. So that's good news for you. He's calling them Gen 2.

One thing that he did mention was that his best judgement on effective range was 250yds for a coyote, with possibly further if the nut behind the scope is good and tight.

Sask,
The 50grn 20cal bullet has a higher bc then the 22cal of the same weight. That's why i'd go that route, but Duckp has a good route with the 20-250 pushing the 57's, that would be a heck of a gun. I wouldn't hesitate a bit to shoot a coyote with that. Nice work blind man can always put the screws to a coyote. 

THe 300grn bullet is coming out of a 338 Norma Mag. It's a wild combo. 2750fps is all, but i still have over 1000 ft/lbs of energy at a mile.  I've only shot it to 1576yds so far but it makes long shots look easy. Suppressed to boot, so i don't have to wear ear plugs and it recoils about the same as a 308win. The 300grn Berger Hybrid is longer then a 223 case. It's a beast! When the round goes down range it sounds like a howitzer 155mm going out, you can actually hear it cut the air. pretty crazy, so you can about imagine what it does to coyotes. :thumb:

Deano


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## phutch30 (Nov 18, 2010)

Ive only lost 1 of the coyotes Ive shot with my 17 rem in the last 5 yrs, and it wasnt in the vitals. Ive never had a runnner with the 25 grainers either. Prob popped somewhere in the 150 dog range with the setup. Im runninng the 25 gr berger targets at 3990. I can state without hesitation it has no problems dropping coyotes out to 300 and well beyond. under that and its boringly repetitive bang flop. Its not a 500 or even a 400 yard gun. But it generally puts itsy bitsy teeny entrance holes an no exits in coyotes at the ranges i shoot them. Longest kill ive actually ranged was 380 yards and it was DRT.

My only beef with the round is gettng good bullets and brass. Got that taken care of..I hope. Its a great fur gun. If I was more into compitition I would move up to a 22 or 24 cal. But for my fur hunting where 99% of the coyotes I get are between 75 and 250 yards. I wouldnt trade it for anything.


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## devildogg (Nov 21, 2009)

You guys and your tiny bullets and you guys and ur huge bullets have it all wrong oke: Im a fan of the 6mm bullet I have been using them for years they buck the wind they r fur friendly with the right bullet you can go from 55gr bullet to 115 gr bullet I preferred something around the 70 gr weight (69grberger) they seem to give me the best of speed and and buck the wind well best of both worlds I don't have runners and they r not blown to ****. I know what dave is talking about and I know what deano is talking about you are both right but your both wrong if your not using something with a 6mm bullet hahahahahhahaha jk I love reading this stuff I just thought id try to keep it going .


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Devildogg I bet you will keep it going.  
Much as I love the 17s I love the 6mms as well but am really fond of my new 20-250.(shot another hung up 'barker' at 380 yds about 2 hours ago)
In case you didn't rile them up enuf I'll throw this out.The 17 may start at 4000 or more vs my 20s 3600,but with my BC(.420)the 20 catches them at 100yds and is going faster thereafter.Actually the 'time of flight' is about exactly the same at 100 yds(.09)and they lose thereafter.Wind drift wise it's not even close with the 20 being less than half their drift at say 300 yds.
There that ought to do it. :lol:


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

"Devildogg I bet you will keep it going.  
Much as I love the 17s I love the 6mms as well but am really fond of my new 20-250.(shot another hung up 'barker' at 380 yds about 2 hours ago)
In case you didn't rile them up enuf I'll throw this out.The 17 may start at 4000 or more vs my 20s 3600,but with my BC(.420)the 20 catches them at 100yds and is going faster thereafter.Actually the 'time of flight' is about exactly the same at 100 yds(.09)and they lose thereafter.Wind drift wise it's not even close with the 20 being less than half their drift at say 300 yds.
There that ought to do it. :lol:"

You had better luck than I did, Duck, went out this morning for a couple stands and didn't call a single yote.  I'm in the process of getting a 1-10 twist .204 put together so when you mentioned you're shooting a bullet with a BC of 420, that's something I'd be interested in. What brand of bullet and how many grains? If you've got them running 3600 with a 20-250, that's in my league with the .204 so maybe that's something I could make work for me.

Cheers :beer: Saskcoyote


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Devildog,
Now we have a discussion. I'd take a 6mm bullet any day of the week. I've been rocking a 6slr with 105grn berger hunting vlds for 2 years now and it is a hammer a long ways out. It is a cheater gun. 
Xdeano


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Sask I,m shooting a 57 gr unmussig bullet.
Do a search in the rifle forum for a thread titled the ' ultimate coyote rifle' by 4jake and you'll get all the info.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Don't think it's gonna work, Duck. The 1-10 twist will handle a 50 but a 57 would be beyond its capability. I plan on shooting the 40 Bergers in the .204 but if I crank it up to 50, I know where I can get 50 Bergers and they might make an interesting load. Thanks for the info, though.

Saskcoyote


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Yeh Sask didn't think the 57s would work.Try the 40s and 50s and see what happens.BC is important.The BC i used in the 17 calculations was .172.(my old 17 Rem bullet).
I just ran my 17-204 load using a 30 gr at 4100 with a .200 BC and it takes my 20- 250 250 yds to 'catch up' with both having a time of flight there of .23.Quite a difference!
Wind drift still twice as much for the 17 there though.
On the other hand,if you're concerned with 'fur',there's no comparison at all.Hands down the 17 IMO.


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

For fur, i'd say that the 17 will do very well, from the few, (i'm using "few" loosely), that i shot with the 17 Rem years ago it did well on fox, but coyotes it just "splashed". But I'll attribute that to bullet design and construction. The fox and other small critters were jello inside with no exits. The reason i dumped the 17Rem was the fox population back home was dropping off very fast and the coyote population was on a sharp increase. i still wish I would have kept it some days when i see fox running around the country side and all i have sitting next to me is a 6mm in the truck. I tend to let them live. I'd rather see fox come back and coyotes go by the wayside. Fox are much more fun and cause fewer problems in my mind.

xdeano


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