# Valerius Geist is coming to town



## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

See also:
http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... t=valerius

*NORTH DAKOTA CHAPTER OF THE WILDLIFE SOCIETY

2005 ANNUAL MEETING

Theme "Conserving and Preserving North Dakota Prairies"
Seven Seas Inn in Mandan Feb 9-11, 2005* 
For full schedule see:
http://www.ndctws.homestead.com/annualmtg.html

Thursday schedule:
*COMMERCIALIZATION OF WILDLIFE AND IMPACTS ON WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT*

Session Moderator - Scott Colins, Wildlife Biologist, PFW, USFWS, Bismarck, ND

8:00 - 8:05	Announcements

8:05 - 8:45	Game Preserves in South Dakota
Steve Thomson, SD Game, Fish and Parks

8:45 - 9:25	Non-Tradional Livestock and Farmed Elk Regulations and Compliance Actions
Dr. Susan Keller, ND State Board of Animal Health, Bismarck, ND

9:25 - 9:45	Birding Trails in North Dakota
Flora Mae Miller, Board of Dir., Birding Trails Dakota, Bismarck, ND

9:45 - 10:05	North Dakota Deer Ranchers Association
Shawn Schafer, President, ND Deer Ranchers Association

10:05 - 10:15	BREAK

Session Moderator - Ron Reynolds, Wildlife Biologist, HAPET, USFWS, Bismarck, 
ND

*10:15 - 11:30	North American Model of Wildlife Conservation 
Dr. Valerius Geist, Professor Emeritus at University of Calgary, Calgary Alberta*
11:30 - 12.00	Questions and Answers/ Discussion Session

12:00 - 1:00	LUNCH

1:00 - 5:00	Annual Business Meeting

6:00 - 7:00	Social Hour

7:00 - 9:00	Awards Banquet; speaker Dr. Valerius Geist
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

This should be an extremely interesting day. I hope Governor Hoven attends as well as the press. I wouldn't miss this one. There is a follow up forum Friday--don't have the details yet. Is NDGF involved? Could someone post up the details of the Friday forum?


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

I don't have the specifics of the Wednesday or Friday session yet, but this is the annual meeting of the ND Chapter of the Wildlife Society. This is the proffesional organization of wildlife professionals from all over the state of ND. Thus it includes many from NDGF, USFWS, USFS, BLM, USGS, and many other private and government organizations. Ton anyone interested I will post the other days schedules as well as info about the organization later.

Tom

Here it is....

NORTH DAKOTA CHAPTER OF THE WILDLIFE SOCIETY

TENTATIVE 2005 ANNUAL MEETING PROGRAM
Seven Seas lnn, Mandan, North Dakota
9-11 February 2005

Theme "Conserving and Preserving North Dakota Prairies"

Wednesday, February 9, 2005

8:00 - 12:00	Registration

10:00 - 12:00	Executive Board Meeting

12:00 - 1:00	Lunch

1:00 - 5:00	Registration Continues

1:15 - 1:25	Welcome and Opening Remarks
Randy Renner, President, NDCTWS

PRAIRIE MANAGEMENT
Session Moderator - Mike Szymanski, Migratory Game Bird Biologist, NDGFD, 
Bismarck, ND

1:25 - 1:45	Dedicated Energy Crops for North Dakota, Good or Bad? 
Arnold Kruse, ND Natural Resources Trust

1:45 - 2:05	R.L. Morgan WMA Prairie Restoration Project 
Merle Bennett, ND Natural Resources Trust

2:05 - 2:25	The Relationship of Fire History to the Abundance and Habitat of Passerines on a North Dakota Drift Plain Prairie 
Timothy J. Ludwick, Univ. of Pittsburgh at Greensburg, PA
Robert K. Murphy, USFWS- Des Lacs NWR Complex

2:25 - 2:45	Phenological Adaptability: Are Migratory Birds Arriving Earlier in the Spring in North Dakota and Should Managers and Biologists be Concerned?
Lawrence D. Igl, USGS -NPWRC, Jamestown, ND

2:45 - 3:05	Reflections on Three Decades in North Dakota
Douglas H. Johnson, USGS-NPWRC, Jamestown, ND

3:05 - 3:20	BREAK - Poster Session Open for Viewing

PRAIRIE PRESERVATION PANEL

Session Moderator - Casey Anderson, Private Lands Biologist, NDGFD, Bismarck, ND

3:20 - 4:10	Panel Discussion
US Fish and Wildlife Service - Chuck Bosch
ND Game and Fish Department- Kevin Kading
Natural Resources Conservation Service - Dave Dewald
The Nature Conservancy - Eric Rosenquist
Ducks Unlimited - Randy Renner
4:10 - 5:00	Question and Answer Session

Thursday, February 10, 2005

COMMERCIALIZATION OF WILDLIFE AND IMPACTS ON WILDLIFE MANAGEMENT

Session Moderator - Scott Colins, Wildlife Biologist, PFW, USFWS, Bismarck, ND

8:00 - 8:05	Announcements

8:05 - 8:45	Game Preserves in South Dakota
Steve Thomson, SD Game, Fish and Parks

8:45 - 9:25	Non-Tradional Livestock and Farmed Elk Regulations and Compliance Actions
Dr. Susan Keller, ND State Board of Animal Health, Bismarck, ND

9:25 - 9:45	Birding Trails in North Dakota
Flora Mae Miller, Board of Dir., Birding Trails Dakota, Bismarck, ND

9:45 - 10:05	North Dakota Deer Ranchers Association
Shawn Schafer, President, ND Deer Ranchers Association

10:05 - 10:15	BREAK

Session Moderator - Ron Reynolds, Wildlife Biologist, HAPET, USFWS, Bismarck, 
ND

10:15 - 11:30	North American Model of Wildlife Conservation 
Dr. Valerius Geist, Professor Emeritus at University of Calgary, Calgary Alberta

11:30 - 12.00	Questions and Answers/ Discussion Session

12:00 - 1:00	LUNCH

1:00 - 5:00	Annual Business Meeting

6:00 - 7:00	Social Hour

7:00 - 9:00	Awards Banquet; speaker Dr. Valerius Geist

Friday, February 11, 2005

PLANNING AND INVENTORY

Session Moderator - Jason Smith, Graduate student, UND, Grand Forks, ND

8:00 - 8:05	Announcements

8:05 - 8:25	Conservation Planning for Grassland Birds in North Dakota
D.E. Naugle, University of Montana, Missoula, MT
F.R. Quamen, University of Montana, Missoula, MT
M.E. Estey, USFWS, Region 6 HAPET, Bismarck, ND
D.A. Granfors, USFWS, Region 3 HAPET, Fergus Falls, MN

8:25 - 8:45	Estimating Distribution of Rare Prairie Species When Detection is Uncertain
Glen A. Sargeant, USGS- NPWRC, Jamestown, ND
Marsha A. Sovada, USGS- NPWRC, Jamestown, ND

8:45 - 9:05	Status and Opportunities for Natural Resource Conservation in North Dakota: Results and Products from the North Dakota Gap Analysis Project
Larry Strong, USGS- NPWRC, Jamestown, ND

9:05 - 9:25	Prairie Management: a Rancher's Perspective
Mr. Gene Goven, Rancher, Turtle Lake, ND

9:25 - 9:45	Small Mammal Community Dynamics in Mesic and Xeric Grassland to Woodland Habitat Ecotones and Implications for Biodiversity, Management, and Conservation at J. Clark Salyer National Wildlife Refuge, North Dakota
Neil J. Kadrmas, Dept. of Biology, UND, Grand Forks, ND
Rick A. Sweitzer, Dept. of Biology, UND, Grand Forks, ND

9:45 - 10:00	BREAK

GENERAL SESSION

Session Moderator -

10:00 - 10:20	Effects of Spinning Wing Decoys on Flock Behavior and Hunting Vulnerability on Mallards in Minnesota
Mike Szymanski, Migratory Game Bird Biologist, NDGFD, Bismarck, ND

10:20 - 10:40	Effects of Maternal Investments on Egg Metabolic Rates, Hatching Synchrony and Offspring Performance in Canada Geese
Todd A. Boonstra, Dept. of Biological Sciences, NDSU, Fargo, ND
Mark Clark, Dept. of Biological Sciences, NDSU, Fargo, ND
Wendy Reed, Dept. of Biological Sciences, NDSU, Fargo, ND

10:40 - 11:00	Blackbird Response to Inundation Following Drought at the Cottonwood Lake Study Area
David M. Mushet, USGS- NPWRC, Jamestown, ND	
Ned H. Euliss, Jr., USGS- NPWRC, Jamestown, ND

11:00 - 11:20	Prevalence and Transmission Ecology of the Meningeal Worm in North Dakota
James J. Maskey Jr., Dept. of Biology, UND, Grand Forks, ND
Rick A. Sweitzer, Dept. of Biology, UND, Grand Forks, ND

11:20 - 11:40	Evaluating Wetland Bird habitat Use of Agricultural Wetlands in North Dakota
Jessica Gregory, Dept. of Biology, UND, Grand Forks, ND 
Richard D. Crawford, Dept. of Biology, UND, Grand Forks, ND

11:40 - 11:50 Natural Resource Communication Award Presentation

11:50 - 12:00	Closing Remarks - Adjourn


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

tsodak, somewhere I heard that NDFG is sponsering an open forum or pannel discission with Valerius Giest Friday night after the NDCTWF closes their convention. Where and when? This could be a rip snorter.  Rest assured the caged hunt folks will be more than interested.


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## pigrancher (Dec 23, 2004)

Doug Leer's radio show had a guy on talking about this. Said it's at the Ramkota in Bismarck. FREE AND OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. can't remember which night. Any help on this Doug?


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## frosty (Dec 6, 2002)

Geist will be speaking in Bismarck opened to all of the public on Friday Feb 11 at the Ramkota Inn, Bismarck. I believe the forum will take place from 7-9 pm. If you can't make it to this one, you really need to have your pulse checked.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Extend an invitation to your legislators for that open public forum night. At least the local ones should be able to make it. Dr. Geist is an authority on aspects of wildlife management and the tie to commercialization. Invite the press. This will not be a dull presentation.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

12


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

Looks good! What does it cost to attend?


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## Suzemallard (Jan 18, 2005)

Dick,

I appreciate your getting the word out on Valerius Geist, but the Chapter session on Thursday morning is intended for wildlife professionals that are members of the ND Chapter of The Wildlife Society. The Chapter would appreciate it if the general public would attend the Friday forum since the room we have for the Thursday morning session is not large enough for the public to attend along with the members of the Chapter. It would cost each person $10 to become a non-voting patron of the Chapter to attend. The forum on Friday evening is intended for the general public and is free of charge. The Friday forum will include representatives from the Outfitters Assoc., deer and elk producers, Animal Health and the NDGFD. Keith Trego Executive Director of the ND Natural Resources Trust will be the moderator. The format of the Friday forum will be set up to allow more questions from the audience than the Chapter Session. The Friday forum is sponsored by the Chapter, ND Wildlife Fed., and the Lewis and Clark Wildlife Club.

The Chapter has made a significant contribution and effort to get Valerius to ND along with the NDGFD. We need to get a big turnout for the Friday forum. The Chapter will be putting a flyer on every legislaturer's desk inviting them to attend the Friday forum. Thanks for helping to get the word out.

Randy 
Chapter President


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Correction noted. Thank you Randy, and thank you to the Wildlife Society and NDGF for this presentation. $10 for Thursday would be dirt cheap. The Friday forum is a opportunity that will not come our way again.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Dick and others- OK, this is a dumb question but..... why do they need a big turnout on Friday, and what should we expect to accomplish by attending? I am interested, and think I will check out the forum, but I do not understand the importance the posts imply.

I think I need someone to spell it out for me 

Thanks.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

griff, Dick may correct me, but I don't think there's any need Friday at this event for a "show of force" - that will come soon enough at one or more points in the session. However, Mr. Geist, is regarded as one of the authorities on the forces and consequences of commercialization and if you want to get an expert's view on a subject we're all wrestling about right now in ND, you'd be hard pressed to find a better event.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

If your interest was classical music, the difference would be listening to a CD or hearing a great orchersta preform live. Dr. Geist would be the latter, in my opinon.

Most of us will never hear the great wildlife managers speak in person, and some have passed, but this a chance to do so right in Bismarck. I would hope the legislators from nearby districts would take this opportunity to educate themselves on commercialization, as we have already a host of bills submitted, likely to exceed the record numbers of '03, dealing with that very subject. Urge your legislators to attend that Friday.


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## griffman (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks Dan and Dick! I think I got it now! :beer:


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

A world view
By RICHARD HINTON, Bismarck Tribune 
If you want the big picture on big-game animals, whether managing them or hunting them, Valerius Geist is the biologist to go to.

The author of seven books on single species of big-game animals, the wildlife biologist holds a Ph.D. in animal behavior, a degree he earned after spending 61/2 years studying mountain sheep, including "41/2 years in the field, in isolation," he said by telephone from his home on Vancouver Island, British Columbia, last week.

Born on the Black Sea in Russia but "culturally a German" and later transplanted to Canada, Geist has seen and experienced many models of wildlife management. The best, by far, is the North American model, he said.

"It's based on the idea that a citizen in good standing has access to wildlife," he said. The same model also outlaws market hunting, the practice of harvesting wildlife for resale.

"You've allocated wildlife by law, not by the pocketbook," he explained. "By law, even if the emperor of China shoots something out of season, he has broken the law and suffers the consequences. It's a very important point."

He also praises a century's worth of conservation efforts that continue to bring some wildlife species back from the brink of extinction.

"You are the envy of the civilized world. You can take a bow," he said.

Geist will be in the spotlight from 7 to 9 p.m. Feb. 11 when he discusses "Sport Hunting at the Crossroads" at a public forum at the Ramkota Inn in Bismarck.

Geist lists domesticating wildlife and genetically manipulating antler size among the biggest threats to our hunting heritage.

"It's in opposition to all (wildlife management) policies that have succeeded," he said. "The value of wildlife is what nature made, not what man made that can result in grotesque atrocities."

Fee hunting also ranks high on his list of threats.

"Rich people can go to Europe and shoot wildlife as long as their pocketbook allows," he said. "It's a disaster for conservation."

Geist said he is reading a book -- "in German," he added -- about poaching in Germany between the two world wars.

"There was a poaching culture based on the belief that the rich and powerful had taken away wildlife unjustly, and the poachers felt they were allowed to take their deer too," he said "That doesn't happen in North America, except possibly Texas."

Ah, Texas, the poster child for everything wrong about hunting in America.

"There's virtually no public land," Geist said of the Lone Star State. "If you want to hunt, you lease."

It's been that way since Texas passed a tough trespass law in 1925, Geist explained.

Surveys show that hunting in Texas is affordable only to the upper and upper middle classes, but the state also has fewer hunters than states with more public access to hunting land, such as Michigan and Wisconsin.

"Texans are proud of their system," Geist added. "They think poorly of me, by the way."

Geist's visit to Bismarck is sponsored by the North Dakota Chapter of the Wildlife Society, the North Dakota Wildlife Federation, the Lewis and Clark Wildlife Club and the Northern Badlands Chapter of the Mule Deer Foundation. Geist will speak twice to the membership of the Wildlife Society on Feb. 10 and will talk to those attending the annual hunter education workshop and recognition banquet on Feb. 12.

Geist, who retired in 1995, was professor emeritus of environmental science as the University of Calgary in Alberta.

"Retirement is not for sissies, there's so much work," he said. All of that work is keeping him from hunting and fishing, he joked.

He does have a freezer full of wild turkeys, and he shot a bear earlier in the season.

"I made sausage out of it; it's wonderful meat," he said.

He did hunt deer and saw a lot of young bucks. "I chased them back into the woods so they would grow a year older," he said. "I don't pull the trigger unless I can eat it."

One exception will be a bear suffering from mange, something unheard of on Vancouver Island, he said.

"I would pull the trigger on that one to find out what in the dickens is going on. Naked bears have shown up in Florida and once in a blue moon in other localities.

"The animal is in terrible condition, and I would like to terminate its suffering."

(Reach reporter Richard Hinton at 250-8256 or [email protected].)


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

I wanted to move this back to the top and lets keep it there today and tomorrow. I listened to Mr. Geist speak this morning, and he delivers a powerful message of looking beyond the individual situations to ultimate causes and results. Where does the current road lead??? Where did it come from??? What options do other systems use???

I come away seeing this entire political session as a symptom, less a cure as many want to look at individual bills or sessions. It was almost a tent revival, with the message being the power of the public trust doctrine.

If there is one night that you need to be somewhere for wildlife this year, this is it. I really believe you will be enlightened and excited in ways that could truly change your outlook.

Very powerful. Look me up when you get to the Ramkota tommorow night.

Tom


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

T, give us the street address for the Ramkota. Mapquest doesn't list it nor my Bis. directory.


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

I will get it for you by morning.

Tom


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I listened to Dr. Valerius Geist this morning, and his presentation was very good. He says Canada has some problems right now. The Canadian government has divested itself from responsibility for wildlife and has left it to the provinces. The provinces are not managing to the extent they should, and the gun control in Canada has reduced the number of hunters. With hunter reduction so has followed the reduction of interest in wildlife. Now the species that get management are the species that are tied into treaties with the United States. Biologists in Canada would like to see more wildlife related treaties with the United States.

He has also studied hunters and management in Europe and North America and says the North American management model is much more successful. The economic impact in North America is "at a minimum a magnitude" more than in Germany for example. In Germany you go to an outfitter or you belong to a club. This reduces the opportunity to hunt to the elite. In America every commoner can hunt. He feels the direction we are going would be detrimental to the economy and wildlife species. Hopefully our state legislative people will go with open minds to Friday nights presentation.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Was the Governor and his staff given a personal invitation?


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

One of the things I heardx this morning that I think will always stick with me is that hunting without a guide or outfitter is the single most inefficient way to hunt, and that is what makes it such a driving economic force. You really have to think about that to have it make sense, but if 100 folks go to a mountain to hunt elk, and they harvest twenty elk, what is the difference in ecnomic impact from that verses 25 folks going there with exclusive access and guides to harvest the same 20 animals??? Those 100 will most likely keep coming back year after year even at lower success rates because they are doing what they love, but once you start getting efficient, then all must switch over to the guide because one has a competitive advantage over the others, destroying the whole in my opinion.

This is what I have said a few times about leasing here. People say farmers have to lease to survive. the reason that is true, if it is, is because some joker started it off in the first place. Outlaw it, and it will make O difference on the number of farmers leaving the land, because they will all be at the same level. This man makes sense, and it is going to be fun to watch.

Tom


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Sodak

That has also been my opinion, but it was encouraging to have a scientist with data to back it up. His analogy to elk hunting is absolutely right. I figure I have so much money to hunt, and I can go to the mountains ten times on my own and perhaps never shoot an elk, or I can go once with a guide. I don't want anyone holding my hand when I shoot an elk, and I would rather spend ten seasons in the mountains and get no elk as opposed to one time and get an elk. Year after year I head to Montana.

Speaking of hunting Montana , I go to Montana for all the public land, and the easy access. An area I have hunted (at my home town in North Dakota) for 20 years has been leased up by guides. My son was so irate he moved to Helena, Montana. I guess I have my own guide now. He has been there two years and shot two elk. I guess if the local business wants a nonresidence ( not meant as anti nonresident, but as poor business practice comment) money over mine I can spend mine in Montana. People need to wake up to the real problem. I certainly hope the media covers Dr. Geist's presentation.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Yes, the gov and company got a personal invitation. :lol: Was the presentation video taped? That's what we need for future educational purposes. It would be be wise to have that taped. My understanding the legislators received invitations also. Hope the press takes this in. Shine a light under the rock.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I didn't see any video devices in the meeting. Your right it should have been taped. If the media does their job the public should get a little education. The guides and outfitters are definitely not a boon to the rural economy. They will reduce the number of hunters. As Dr. Geist pointed out a large number of even poor hunters spend more money than a few affluent.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/alb ... pic_id=657

The Ramkota is the old Raddison. Here is the map.


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## dleier (Aug 28, 2002)

I echo tsodak and plainsmen. Dr. Geist is a visionary.


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

800 South 3rd Street Bismarck


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## hoagie (Jan 12, 2005)

For any SD viewers, the South Dakota Chapter of the Wildlife Society meetings will be held at Cedar Shores in Chamberlain, SD starting the week of March 7.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Is there any plan to video this pannel discussion tonight? It would be good to have this testimony on record. It will be very usefull later.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't know what is planned for tonight Dick. Does anyone else on here have any info?

I have been thinking that we need to get some data on economic impact. I know we have some, but we need to take this problem on from the standpoint of economics. Once the general public understands the money lost with the proliferation of restricted access things could turn around. Not everyone understands the passion of hunting, but they all understand dollars.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Attended the Geist presentation last night in Bis. Packed house. Geist talked about the North American model of wildlife management versus the European version. No comparison. 100 years ago we were devoide of big game species and headed there with birds too, until the public moved forward to impose the public trust doctrine.

He spoke of the two extreme positions: Over use by public, and ownership by the elite, (exclusitivity-where we are headed in ND).

Geist pointed out some of the ecominc factors, that "ineficencies create wealth by hunting because single users (read freelance hunters) duplicate all costs per hunter." Unlike outfitting.

Usership of wildlife can be allocated by law-(public trust), allocated by privilage or wealth, allocated by the marketplace-(market hunting).

Geist pointed out in North America hunters harvest wildlife for "cause"- personal consumption, versus European style hunting competitions such as driven pheasants or caged hunts where the bag of the kill is only limited by the depth of the wallet.

I am going to put his comments on "game preserves" -a contradiction- under the Conservation topic.


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

Unfortunately I missed the presentation. However, I find the idea that freelance hunters are more inefficient than outfitters quite compelling. It is undoubtedly true. And, it is a very good thing. It is the beauty of the way ND used to be, and for the most part, still is. But it won't be in another 10 years. This is what the southwest area of the state is now learning the hard way. The business owners there are whining about a drop in business. Gee, I wonder why that happened? Let's see, should I pay $150 a day to KILL, or go somewhere else, find my own game through scouting, and HUNT. Freelance hunters, each putting on 100's of miles per day scouting are obviously way inefficient when compared to a scouting network of 6-8 "guides" who each cover a specific area and then share notes each evening. But, for me, and probably most of you guys, what I like about waterfowling the most, I think, is finding that hot spot, finding that mother lode. That's what takes the skill, the knowledge and the dedication. Anyone can sit in a "guide's" spread shoot birds, but its not hunting, its just killing.

I'm wondering if there are any studies by economists which would prove that commercial hunting results in less gross revenue than what is produced in areas where commercial hunting is not present? I know that the ND Game and Fish looked into this, but realistically, we need independent expert economists to look at this issue, not biologists. Can it be proved? I think that the ND legislature would be impressed by the right evidence.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

tb, Plainsman brought up the same point and I agree. Freelancers have argued quality of life, heritage, social value, biology. And commercial interests argue money. Just money.


> It's the economy stupid.


. I believe we have that same agruement in our favor. SW ND is the case in point. It would take an outside source to develope the model, but it would take a united front to put it forward. First to the business community, then to the legislature.

The alternative is referal initiative.


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