# Here's another one...SB2242



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Evidently no one has noticed this one! It would allow for a spring Canada season.


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

I saw that one too, I am not sure how they propose to do this. You can pass a state law allowing the hunting of spring canada geese, but it doesn't mean you are going to be able to have a season. Migratory Waterfowl are regulated on the federal level as we all know. You can't have a season unless the USFWS approves one. Another case of state legislators thinking they have more power than they actually do. This was introduced by Joel Heitkamp from the SE part of the state. They do have Canada Goose depredation down there. That is where the early season in the fall originated before going statewide. This year the USFWS authorized NDGF to issue kill permits to landowners experiencing depredation. This was a step no one wanted to take, but we did it. The landowners were allowed to harvest up to 20 birds to alleviate damage. Of course this was not good enough, then they complained because they had to use shotguns. They wanted to be able to snipe them at long distances with a rifle. The department stands by the philosophy that there will certainly be more harassment of the birds if you are close to them with a shotgun. This should help to move the other birds out of the area better than a bullet at long distance where the goose doesn't know what happened or where it came from. Late last summer, Heitkamp was on KFGO complaining about the G&F requiring them to use shotguns. At some things, you will never win or make anyone happy. I am not sure where they were thinking with this.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

This is absolutely absurd. Someone should inform them about how waterfowl seasons are set.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Yeah...the season would be open when the small Canadas are moving through.Not a good idea.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Spring Season
May be they want this on the books in case the USF&WS adds Large Canada geese to the spring conservation season.

Goose Crop Depredation "Kill Permits"
1) An ongoing event in Minnesota

2) NDG&F issued permits in 2002. Expect an increase in permits in 2003. Read all about it in ND Outdoors.

http://www.state.nd.us/gnf/ndoutdoors/i ... erview.pdf


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

They don't need to have it on the books in case the USFWS would make this change. If the feds allow it, the state would authorize it by proclamation. The NDGF dept did issue kill permits, but again they were authorized by the USFWS.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

What is so sad about this is, they are most likely, like the Farmers with deer problems - that won't let anyone hunt them :eyeroll:

You cannot Legislate common sense & understanding :roll:


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Muzzy.

*Did some digging. And....*

A few years back the ND legislature had to scramble to allow nonresidents to hunt with a $50 license and no days counted against their 14 days in the fall.

*The SB2242 will do the same now for Canada geese.*

Introduced by Sen. Heitkamp, Espegard, Fischer
Introduced by Rep. Amerman, Gulleson, Nelson
A BILL for an Act to create and enact a new section to chapter 20.1-04 of the North Dakota
Century Code, relating to hunting of Canada geese; and to amend and reenact section
20.1-03-07.1 of the North Dakota Century Code, relating to nonresident waterfowl hunting
licenses.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

PH:

poke around, find out what this means: " amend and reenact section
20.1-03-07.1 of the North Dakota Century Code, relating to nonresident waterfowl hunting licenses."

and then answer back.

Thanks dude,
M.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

20.1-04 : Deals with what birds you can shoot, import, etc... Did not really see anything on dates or time periods. Confirms Muzzy's comments regarding proclamation.

20.1-03-07.1: This is the part of the Century code that details the 14 days NR license, etc .... It states only ONE license per year per each NR. I assume this is the part of the ND Century code that would be changed by the HPC bill.

20.1-03-07.3: Nonresident Spring White Goose License. It is this part of the Century code that allows a NR to buy a spring White Goose License and still remain eligible for a fall general waterfowl NR license.

Note it is for White Goose Only. Thus Canada goose needs to be added.

So if this bill is modifying 3-07.3 : It is adding Canada goose to white goose for spring season.

Just read the bill. By governors proclamation ... spring canada goose season ... NR can participate too.... Nothing devious - simply will not count against fall 14 days.


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

Prairie Hunter, I am pretty familiar with the game and fish laws. The reason that we had to scramble with the spring snow goose reason was only because of the time limitation on nonresidents. Since according to state law they could only buy one waterfowl license no one wanted to have the spring snow goose season count against their regular license and subtract off of the fall season. When the Feds allowed the season we would have had to do nothing but have a governor signed proclamation to allow residents to hunt. That is one reason is it is a "conservation season", to get around this problem along with altering the law. Of they passed this law providing for a spring conservation season, it would be in direct violation of federal law. A state cannot weaken a federal law, they can certainly strenghten or tighten it, but cannot loosen it up. An example is the no guns larger than 10 ga. to shoot migratory birds, this is a federal law, and if the state law passed a law stating you could use a 4 gauge, it would still be illegal to use anything larger than a 10 ga.


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

Back to my original post, the state CANNOT implement any waterfowl season without the blessing of the USFWS


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Muzzy,

Do not doubt your knowledge. Believe you are in wildlife enforcement, correct ? I have friends that work for both the NDG&F and USF&WS in ND. They are all good guys and know their stuff.

Yep, yep. I know the *Feds rule *the waterfowl roost and their rules on waterfowl *govern anything the states can do. (what, how and when). * Most everyone on this site should know the USF&WS role.

First of all it was Ken that started this posted and said it allows a spring Canada goose season. My original post on this thread says: 
May be they want this on the books in case the USF&WS adds Large Canada geese to the spring conservation season.

It was also me that actually read the bill and stated it had to deal with issuing NR licenses - if the season was to occur.

You may not be reading my comments closely or your answer seems to be a day or two late. Read my BLUE highlighted statement in my 1-23-03 post. I already posted the comments about the conservation order and NR spring licenses not counting against the 14 fall days.

Note that 20.1-03-07.3: Nonresident Spring White Goose License. *Canadas not allowed under this spring licens.* Now before you go on me again:

Remember that the ND legislature meets every other year. This bill would simply allow the governor to include or add a Canada goose season for NRs (again without impacting the 14 days in the fall) by proclamation.

The fact that the bill says by proclamation of the governor :: In my opinion means a season is not a guarentee .. just if and a *big IF* ... the Feds were to allow such a season.

While I do not usually return home to ND for spring snow geese, I do have to congratulate these senators for being proactive in case a season is allowed in a spring when the ND legislature is not open for business. Doubt the gov would call a special session for this one.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

OK with that discussion behind me. If the FEDs were ever to go in that direction, *no one on this site has discussed if they think a spring Canada goose season is a good idea.*

Sky carp, SOB, tundra killers - spring season has been biologically documented as one method of attempting to control the population explotion. Even in spring, hunters are pursuing larger flocks of birds - using more typical hunting methods (except e-callers, no plugs).

Local Canada geese that nest in ND - in my book are a different story. *These birds are usually paired up and establishing territories when they return to ND.* Usually standing on the ice - waiting for the ice to clear.

I would *NOT* like to see them harassesd and shot as these pairs are setting up to nest. Impact on fall population too great ???

Must be better ways to control their population ? Is it a real issue or simply a very localized issue that can be solved by summer kill permits ?

What does everyone else think ?


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## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

Prairie Hunter-I see what you are talking about, and the problem is we were both looking at two different things in the bill.

There are two parts to the bill the first one which "creates and enacts a new section to 20.1-04. This is the part that implements a spring season on Canada geese.

The thing that I was talking about was the addition that state "The governor shall provide for a spring canada goose season" When a law says shall that means he has to have the season. If they are intending what you say they are it should read "The governor may provide for a spring goose season. The way it is worded is that the governor has to have the season, which he has no authority to do so.

The second part is what you are talking about which "amend and reenacts section 20.1-03-07.1" This like you said allows for a nonresident to hunt this new season they are enacting.
You are right on this part, they reworded this so nonresident can hunt if they implement the season like they say. I haven't really been arguing your points, just trying to state the fact that they cannot make up a season on their own, and by their wording that is what they are doing. A lot of people don't read the bills closely at times and shall and may are very common words in game and fish legislation. Because of these two words, the meaning of the bill can be changed drastically.

No, I don't work in enforcement any more although I still work for NDG&F in another capacity.

One of the reasons that I doubt the USFWS will allow a spring season for Canada geese is that how do you separate the migrants out of the residents. The northern Canada Goose species are not causing the problems and some of them are not at the population levels that the residents are. In fact, in our early fall season if the smaller migrant canada geese come early and we harvest too many of them in September, we are in danger of the USFWS shutting down our early season which is something we don't want. The other problem is when resident canada geese do the most crop damage is when they have flightless goslings and they walk up from the slough and graze down the crops. Hard to hunt then as you are not going to decoy them in.

The other reason that I think the legislators are trying to mandate a season is that Heitkamps name is on the bill as a sponsor. They do have goose depredation in his district, and he has been very critical of the department about stopping it. When the department issued kill permits for the landowners, he was on 790 complaining that we wouldn't let the farmers snipe them from long distance with a rifle. He wants to be able to kill geese any way possible.

I won't say much more on this, I am just trying to be helpful. If you don't want to believe me that is your decision, but I am not lying to you.


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