# Do You Feel Free?



## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

About a year ago I asked this question and some you flamed me pretty well.

I think it's time to ask it again. Do you feel free now?


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

i still feel free, but VERY threatened. i absolutely don't trust Obama and his goons, Holder and others. i think they will slowly chip away at our rights, in the name of the "common good" and "stability" in these tumultuous times.......that's what we can expect and more class warfare as they continue to support and bailout the poor black community..it is a fact and not a racist view......to deny it is to deny what is happening and the reality of the situation. the plan is to ultimately destroy the middle class. there will be the poor and the rich, the rulers and the serfs.....it is underway right now, there may still be a chance to stop it, it depends on how it all plays out and what other conservative leader might step up.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

it's also funny how Holder expects us "cowards"........you know who you are, you are the white people in this country........to embrace the black community, when the middle class white community is bailing them out so they can stay in their homes...again, this is not a racist view, it is just the plain damn truth, the mortgage relief is aimed to help these people, not those that elected to live within their budgets.......its BS and it will cause more racism and division in this country! Obama doesn't know how to create policies to "bridge the gap". He is going about this in the wrong way, big time. :eyeroll:


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

I couldn't but it better than you did Hunter. For the first time in my 50 years I am truly scared for my country.

After 911 I was shocked but I wasn't scared because I felt we could take care of the people or countries responsible for the acts.

But now I truly fear a new Civil War. Or rebellion.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Americans have become to fat and weak for a rebel ion. A hundred years ago it would have already begin. Today they will just whine to each other as they lose the last of their freedoms. Look at the perverts we accept into our society in the name of not being prejudice. Example, the Man Boy Love Association that wants the age of consent dropped to six years old. They were angry at Hillary when she didn't invite them to New York for the Gay Pride march after she won the senate seat there.

Why do these people even dare show their face in public? Here in North Dakota we arrest people for child pornography. Why in New York do they have a publication? We have tried so hard not to be prejudice that we have become a low life society. We may get what we deserve. These far left liberals, is there anything unacceptable to them other than conservatives? They are the progressive party all right, it's just that they are proceeding in the wrong direction. Maybe it's like backpacking, downhill is easier than uphill.

Oh, ya, do I feel free? I feel like I just went over the edge, and I don't know if we can make it back up. Were in a fast slide and it remains to see if we can stop. I am as disturbed with the people who put him in office as I am Obama. I often wonder if we have fellow Americans anymore, or just freeloaders living beside us. Everyone should have been able to see the same things we could see, it's just that the free lunch baited them in.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

This sounds shallow to non believers but God will prevail and the new country we have formed will continue to lead the world towards righteousness and salvation. I say this out of respect for God and all the men and women who sacrificed their lives so we can at least have a taste of freedom before it is yanked out of our mouths.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

i too am a believer......i also believe God intended this country to be as Washington, Adams and Jefferson left it......i also believe this is the ultimate test for those believers to rise up and take it back!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Buckseye is right on the god thing, whoever your god is it is obvious that not enough people are listening to him right now.

Things got too crooked under the last two presidents and I think people wanted to sway things back to the common folk. What is happening now is getting a lot of people very upset nationwide and the polls are showing that. Things will probably lean left for a while and hopefully they settle back to the middle. Americans have always been and always will be a very impatient society no matter how fat and lazy we have become.

Have faith people, mid term elections are just 20 months away!


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

Buckseye, I feel the same way when I think about my Dad's sacrifices he made for this country for over twenty years. First flying THE HUMP and then with these guys http://www.air-america.org

Right or wrong he paid the price for our freedom. I am glad he is not alive to see this happening. :******:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

> ........to embrace the black community, when the middle class white community is bailing them out so they can stay in their homes...again, this is not a racist view, it is just the plain damn truth


The reason why people get irritated by this is because it is not accurate, white people overspent just as bad as the blacks. The housing market collapse was due in large part to the homes that are worth 350k and up. The guys hauled up before congress have all had a pale tint also. No one is squeaky clean in this except maybe the asians, if you don't count industrial espionage, no one is clean in this.

No matter what color you are we have lost our values in this country. Until we fix our value system nothing will get any better.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

> No matter what color you are we have lost our values in this country. Until we fix our value system nothing will get any better.


So very sad but so very true!!


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

well, so far i haven't seen the Acorn people hanging in the $350k neighborhoods, advocating civil disobedience and telling folks to stay in their homes......maybe i missed that on CNBC?

and i can distinctly remember seeing Obama talking to a black woman at a rally and hearing afterward she was allowed to stay in her home...
i guess i missed his cameo in the high rent district??

also plenty of home foreclosures in Cleveland....most are not in the 350 K range......most were financed thru Freddie&Fannie.......to the poor who couldn't afford them in the first place, but got the loans thru Clintons Community Improvement Act.........or something along those lines..we know the programs that helped make the bubble....Franklin Reines and his group of "merry men" made millions......but they aren't held accountable.....but the middle class tax payer has been assigned to lug their "fat *****" around for the next 20 years to pay the bill!


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## ImpalaSSpeed96 (Aug 25, 2008)

Sure, I feel free. I just feel this is all BS and I'm not happy about it... I'm just a peon and can't do anything about it. I voted, I failed. So now Ill just piss and moan for the next 4-8 years.

IMO, we could go a long way, and still be the best/most free nation in the world.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

> well, so far i haven't seen the Acorn people hanging in the $350k neighborhoods


The acorn leaders would not slum it like that. We all know they are getting rich too. :wink:


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

I feel free because of some like General Smedly Butler who saved us from a Facist Government in the 1930s, Go on the net and look up (the facist plot to over throw the white house. Also take a look at the Bonus army and see how our WW! veterans were treated.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

adokken said:


> I feel free because of some like General Smedly Butler who saved us from a Facist Government in the 1930s, Go on the net and look up (the facist plot to over throw the white house. Also take a look at the Bonus army and see how our WW! veterans were treated.


My freedom came from people just slightly older than me. Some of these great people we never hear their name. They were just the common guys freezing on the front lines of Germany. Many were guy like you adokken. Today we still have some people like that. However, the average American isn't like that anymore. For the first time in my life I am worried we don't have enough of those people to keep the freedom we know today. 
I truly an concerned. On one side of me people want to be paid to hunt. On the other side of me people want to take my guns. The pay to hunt will reduce our numbers. When our numbers are reduced the modern day market hunters will lose their income, we will lose our freedom to hunt.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

I feel pretty free. I drive around with a loaded gun in my car. I don't worry about authorities harassing me. I feel safe when I want to rant about whatever the hell I want, even if it is to bytch about this country that I love.


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## Whistler31 (Feb 1, 2007)

Let me expound a bit on my question. While many of us still feel free. Are we realy free or have we just not yet been caught doing crimes?

What crimes you ask?

1. Have you ever smoked a cigarette with-in 25" of a doorway?

2. Have you ever changed your oil in your own driveway?

3. Have you ever broken the speed limit?

4. Have you ever spoken badly about another person's race or sexual proclivity?

5. Have you ever let your car warm up in your driveway longer than two minutes? A crime where I live.

6. Have you.........? name it

My point is that every time a city council, county board, state or federal legislature meets they make new laws that make most of us criminals in some manner.

How many laws until we are no longer free and just haven't been caught yet?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Have you ever let your car warm up in your driveway longer than two minutes? A crime where I live.


Thank God I live in North Dakota. Some transplants from here are ashamed of us, but that's ok. Don't come back please. I fear you will bring our plague of ideas back with you. Ideas counter productive to freedom. On the other hand if your someone still proud of freedom and you get sick of liberal la la land welcome back.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

I agree with Matt Jones on this. Yes, I feel free. I still have freedom of speech, freedom to bear harms, and all of the other liberties outlined in the Bill of Rights. To be honest, I was concerned about freedom during the Bush Administration, especially as it relates to the 6th amendment that addresses freedom against unreasonable searches (Patriot Act) and the 8th amendment that guarantees the right to a speedy trial (Gitmo).

For those of you who think that your freedoms are being infringed upon, the solutions are easy.

First, give some careful thought over who you elect and what they stand for. We know that there are lots of folks in elected positions that are there solely because of name recognition or because they have a 'D" or "R" after their names.

Second, don't sacrifice some freedoms to save others. I think that there are folks so focused on maintaining gun rights that they ignore or accept attempts to infringe on other rights such as those discussed in my opening paragraph. I truly wish that people were as passionate about the 1st, 6th, or 8th amendments as they are about the 2nd.

Third, do something about it. I don't post often because I am busy. I look at the number of posts by folks like hunter9494 and others on this board and wonder what you do all day. Do you work and contribute to society? If you are passionate about freedom, are you knocking on doors or educating fellow citizens about your concerns? Folks need to put their concerns into some sort of action. Otherwise, we are nothing but whiners.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Do I feel free, Hell NO! Like whistler posted so many laws on the books they can shake you down anytime, but hey that what they are for.

I have come to this point all be it a very sad state. I know belive our goverment is nothing more than criminals snatching power and self gain. The interest best for the Nation and its people have nothing to do with law's and policy. Our voting rights are gone , I no longer belive voting does anything except lead us into a false sence of control, we have lost all control of our goverment. Our troops overseas are not fighting for the U.S.A they are a barganing chip for some unknown dealing's. They send in troops when we should be dropping bombs because the building's are more important than our troups! Politicians will sell out the civillian population just as fast, outsorce jobs and employ oppressive laws, taxes or whatever they need to line their pockets. I really hope I have lost my mind but can not see it any other way.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

BigDaddy, don't you think that's a little partisan. First off Obama is keeping the patriot act intact. Second the 6th amendment would not be infringed upon if no one caught you first calling and talking with known terrorists. Also, the 8th amendment shouldn't cover terrorists captured on the battle field killing our soldiers. So in those things you outlined your perfectly safe.

On the other hand you mentioned the right to bear arms. That isn't very safe when you look at the cabinet Obama has put together. Known gun control advocates. That also includes Obama himself. Then there will be the liberal judges he appoints to the supreme court. The vote was not unanimous to uphold the constitution the last time they looked at the second amendment. BigDaddy you just made me worry more, not less.

As far as posting multiple times and not working. Some of us old guys are retired. I may have only 36 years into federal service, but you can add 10 years to that for other work. It's not like we are not busy now, we just work for outselves. Right now I am building my own kitchen cabinets and saving $15,000. I think they look better also. Right now I have two raised pannels with the glue setting up and I am in here killing and hour before I pull them from the clamps. Then I will glue up a couple more and go sight in a new ghost ring on my 44 lever action, and a Leupold tactical on my 270. Then glue some more and get on nodakoutdoors again. My heated shop is only 50 feet from my computer. I just set up wireless with password so now I need a laptop out there. I can keep my Koi company while I type on here. 

By the way, nice to hear from you again Bigdaddy. How many years to retire?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

BigDaddy, don't you think that's a little partisan. First off Obama is keeping the patriot act intact. Second the 6th amendment would not be infringed upon if no one caught you first calling and talking with known terrorists. Also, the 8th amendment shouldn't cover terrorists captured on the battle field killing our soldiers. So in those things you outlined your perfectly safe.

On the other hand you mentioned the right to bear arms. That isn't very safe when you look at the cabinet Obama has put together. Known gun control advocates. That also includes Obama himself. Then there will be the liberal judges he appoints to the supreme court. The vote was not unanimous to uphold the constitution the last time they looked at the second amendment. BigDaddy you just made me worry more, not less.

As far as posting multiple times and not working. Some of us old guys are retired. I may have only 36 years into federal service, but you can add 10 years to that for other work. It's not like we are not busy now, we just work for ourselves. Right now I am building my own kitchen cabinets and saving $15,000. I think they look better also. Right now I have two raised panels with the glue setting up and I am in here killing and hour before I pull them from the clamps. Then I will glue up a couple more and go sight in a new ghost ring on my 44 lever action, and a Leupold tactical on my 270. Then glue some more and get on nodakoutdoors again. My heated shop is only 50 feet from my computer. I just set up wireless with password so now I need a laptop out there. I can keep my Koi company while I type on here. 

By the way, nice to hear from you again Bigdaddy. How many years to retire?


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> By the way, nice to hear from you again Bigdaddy. How many years to retire?


How many years? Too many to count.

I know that you and others on this board are retired. However, I also know of others that are not. My point was trying to get people away from their keyboards to translate frustration into action.

You know my politics. However, I always try to back up my words with action. I supported by candidate this last election not only with money, but also volunteer work posting signs and going door to door. It does not good to gripe if you aren't willing to do something to change things.

I was sincere in my earlier post. I truly did fear for my freedoms under the Bush Administration. His administration was the poster child for big government and a lack of communication with the public.

In reference to Gitmo, I support charging our enemies and dealing with them as we need to. However, how about we charge them with something? After all these years, it would seem as though we should be able to charge them with a crime. Heck, a US citizen (Padilla) was held for years without even a charge against him. He was eventually found guilty, but that does not excuse holding him so long without a charge or a trial.

The same goes for prisoners of war. If they have committed a crime against the United States, charge them, give them a military or civil trial, and dole out an appropriate punishment if they are guilty.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Plainsman said:


> adokken said:
> 
> 
> > I feel free because of some like General Smedly Butler who saved us from a Facist Government in the 1930s, Go on the net and look up (the facist plot to over throw the white house. Also take a look at the Bonus army and see how our WW! veterans were treated.
> ...


Id say they were ALOT older than you. We owe our freedom to the guys that staged an armed rebellion against one of the most powerful nations of the time some 230 years ago. It can be done, and maybe its coming again.

Yes, Americans are "fat and lazy", complacent. But, they are also EXTREMELY fickle. Give them four years of Obama and "change", by the next election, im guessing theyll be ready to tar and feather him, and carry him out on a rail. Its just a matter of how much damage will he do in the meantime.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

BigDaddy said:


> I truly did fear for my freedoms under the Bush Administration.


Do you converse with terrorists much?



> His administration was the poster child for big government and a lack of communication with the public.


Do you think communicating with the public is a wise decision in times of war? Plain and simple truth is there are some things the public doesnt need to, and shouldnt know. Mainly pertaining to intelligence, and other top secret affairs of a "dangerous" nature.



> In reference to Gitmo, I support charging our enemies and dealing with them as we need to. However, how about we charge them with something? After all these years, it would seem as though we should be able to charge them with a crime. Heck, a US citizen (Padilla) was held for years without even a charge against him. He was eventually found guilty, but that does not excuse holding him so long without a charge or a trial.
> 
> The same goes for prisoners of war. If they have committed a crime against the United States, charge them, give them a military or civil trial, and dole out an appropriate punishment if they are guilty.


I agree with you there. Although, I dont consider these guys "prisoners of war". They arent in an "army", they arent "uniformed", and they dont follow the "rules of warfare" as laid out by the Geneva accords, therefore they shouldnt be treated as POW's or soldiers. They should be treated as they are, scum. I dont think we should have to pay for their upkeep though, simply interrogate them, get some info, than find a short rope and a tall tree and send them to their "virgins".


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Id say they were ALOT older than you.


All perspective I guess. When your twenty years old twenty years is a lot. When your 60 or 80 the same isn't true. It's like when one son was about five years old he guessed me at 100 years old. I told him he was slightly off. I told him that I was about six times as old as him, but that in another 25 years I would not be even twice as old as him and that he would be catching up to me. That kept him busy thinking for a while. 

Your perhaps right. My dad was to old, my brother to young, and I missed it completely. I was one of those accidents with real old parents.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

What I was getting at was the guys that we owe our freedom to, the ones that obtained it for us, were soldiers of the revolution. Everything after that, was in defense of that freedom. No that their sacrifices mean anything less, just saying.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

barebackjack said:


> What I was getting at was the guys that we owe our freedom to, the ones that obtained it for us, were soldiers of the revolution. Everything after that, was in defense of that freedom. No that their sacrifices mean anything less, just saying.


Oh, I got you. Yes, that is very good perspective. I am afraid old George Washington and his fellow countrymen would be rolling in their graves if given a glimpse of where we stand at this moment in time. They would perhaps be marching on Washington.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Plainsman wrote:


> Second the 6th amendment would not be infringed upon if no one caught you first calling and talking with known terrorists.


barebackjack wrote:


> Do you converse with terrorists much?


If a policeman stopped you on the street and directed you to piss in a sample jar, would you? Why not if you have not done anything illegal?

If a policeman knocked on your door and told you to step aside because he wanted to search your house, would you let him in? What if he demanded a copy of your cell phone bill and list of books you recently checked out from the library? You have not done anything illegal, so why wouldn't you allow provide this information?

I think most of us would demand a search warrant for such things, even if we are 100 percent sure of our innocence? Why? Because government has to demonstrate a legitimate need to infringe on our freedom to infringe on it, not the other way around.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

BigDaddy said:


> Plainsman wrote:
> 
> 
> > Second the 6th amendment would not be infringed upon if no one caught you first calling and talking with known terrorists.
> ...


And did that happen under the patriot act? Did law enforcement just run amok doing illegal searches and seizures all over the place? No. Did it give them a little leeway in dealing with individuals who were suspected of having dealings with terrorists? Sure.


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