# American fuel?



## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Explain something to me guys,

If grain growers can grow alcohol for a replacement for gasoline, and vegtable oil for a replacement for diesel, how come we're stil buying oil from the Middle East, South America, and the rest? I'm ignorant on the subject I know, and I need some help.

Here's my thought. We all know alcohol is flamable, and race car drivers use it in their cars, and ethanol is used in your country. I've heard that bio diesel is also being used down there. Both are re newable resources, and could make the prarie states one heck of a lot of money. If a wheat farmer in North Dakota was selling his crop at anything close to a fuel market value, Govt subsities would be out the window, and alcohol burns a heck of a lot cleaner than gas, ........what am I missing here?

What I want to know is, can we switch to using these fuels for energy and literally shut off the pipeline to the petroleum industry?

I must sound like a huge moron, an Alaskan against the oil industry, and against Federal subsities.


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

I would like to know too. My guess the oil companies have so much money and control in congress it does not change.

For instance why does a 2005 truck get the same mpg as a 1985 truck. Let me guess "oil companies" paying off the auto companies. You can't tell me with all the engineers and technical advances mileage today a truck cannot get at least 30 instead of 15 mpg.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have looked at the ethanol thing extensively. If you look at the energy in planting corn, harvesting corn, producing fertilizer, shipping fuel and lump it all together it takes more than a gallon of diesel to produce a gallon of ethanol. Diesel has more energy than gasoline, and gasoline has more energy than ethanol. In motors compatible with E85 expect a significant drop in mileage. Ethanol is a net loss. It is not an energy efficient alternative, it is not environmentally friendly because you have to count the emissions from burning ethanol plus the fuel to produce it. In the end what it really is is another agriculture welfare program.


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## DecoyDummy (May 25, 2005)

One day ... hydrogen will become a feasible fuel.

That day has not yet arrived, but it just might be the best alternative once we can make it feasible for normal use.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Arrrgggghhhh!!!!!

I believe everything you said plainsman, but darn it, there's gotta be a way out of this. As I understand it, the prive of gas is quite high in Europe, but most drive small and fuel efficient cars there, so the cost is somewhat off set. I know I recently sold my small block v-8 and bought a 6 cylinder, and saw an improvement in milage. Gas in Dillingham is $4 per gallon, and we've only got 40 miles of road, so getting from one end of the road to the other in the 6 is no big deal. I'd ride a horse, but I can't afford to barge in the feed, and keeping him inside at -40 would be a bummer.


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

> One day ... hydrogen will become a feasible fuel.


One day is not a day of the week. We are YEARS from having Hydrogen as a possible fuel source.

The availability of it is tremendous, however, the ability to harvest hydrogen on a large scale (enough for consumer use) is the drawback.

One must also consider storage of hydrogen. Start strapping Hydrogen tanks to vehicles and we now have a whole fleet of mobile bombs.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

Hey Deacon, I might have this wrong, but didn't the Model T Ford get about the same mileage as out modern pickups?

No lie, the village of Galena (western Alaska on the Yukon river,) has talked about installing a neuclear power plant to get away from diesel electric generation.

Well does anybody have any other ideas? Sounds like ethanol might not work to good, hydrogen is a ways away, what else?


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

arctic plainsman said:


> Well does anybody have any other ideas? Sounds like ethanol might not work to good, hydrogen is a ways away, what else?


Biodiesel?? Plainsman, what can you chime in about this? I know it burns cleaner and cost a little bit more, that is about it.

RC


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I don't know a lot about the biodiesel. I have run a couple of tank fulls on my way to Montana elk hunting, but was bucking a wind and couldn't really give you an honest opinion. I am also not aware of the economics of biodiesel. On the surface it looks feasible.

Does anyone know the percentage of soy oil in biodiesel? How about the economics of it?


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

Like it or not, fossil fuels are the best option at this point. 
Nuclear energy would be a great option........but this I wont see in my life time.


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## tmonster (Jan 27, 2005)

Arctic Plainsman, there is hope. 
I called my brother to complain about the gas prices today and ask what the scoop is. He owns 2 gas stations in the twin cities metro area. He brought it to my attention that he's had a TON of racecar drivers (teams) with their rigs stopping in and fueling up recently at his station, which sells E85. Curiousity led him to find out why. E85 is has the same octane as racing fuel, and is half the price. Racing fuel right now is 3.99 and e85 is just over 2.00. The stoichiometric ratio of the e85 is different than normal unleaded fuel, meaning that it needs a different fuel/air ratio to burn completely and burns a bit hotter with the higher octane. Given that these racecars have carburetors, the carbs can be adjusted to give them the best fuel/air mixture and making the fuel just as good. The efi systems in our vehicles are only as good as the computers and programs that run them. Another thing on the processing of e85. Sure, it may cost more right now to process, but remember when dvd players first came out? and computers? Companies will get more efficient if there's a demand for this product and some competition. I'd love to see my money going to an american farmer than some foreigner. Also, my brother says that if gas does hit the 3.00 mark, the market could crash. In fact it went down .14 in less than a week recently and he couldn't remember it falling that fast in such a short time. And btw, don't blame the gas stations for the prices. They average a .04-.06 profit whether gas is .99 or 2.79. If it was .99 per gallon more people would be using gas and he'd make more profit.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Here's something odd.................. ND has 9 locations that sells E85. You would think a big environmental giant like California would be covered in them but, they have one and that is city owned. You can check your state here........ http://www.e85fuel.com/database/search.php


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## tmonster (Jan 27, 2005)

I just checked that out. You'd think with all the hippies over there that they would have more, but you're right, just one. Clicked MN and there are 19 pages. Definitely odd.


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