# Just Venting; Coyote Calling Videos/Shows



## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

By & large I don't consider hunting to be a spectator sport and find the reality TV format that seems to be the standard for hunting shows on TV or videos to be boring, at best. I've said it a number of times but it seems the requirements to have a hunting TV show or make videos is to have a goatee & camo baseball and be able to say "that was awesome" in a southern drawl (the accent seems to be becoming optional).

I've seen very few coyote hunting shows or videos that are worth watching, most showing more "how not to do it" than anything else. Rather than well done calling sequences and one shot kills on stopped coyotes, a person sees getting a dog somewhere inside of 400 yards which never stops, then spray & pray with an AR as it runs off. But anyway, today I'm flipping channels and on VS find a show billed as "the art of decoying coyotes". I figure what the hell and hit record on the DVR.

Rather than a decent "how to" with a decoy, it turns out to be 30 minutes of educating coyotes. Poor hunting, poor video work, & far more misses & screwed up sets than hits & successes. The "star" wore his sponsor's camo and a bright blue silk bandana ( somehow, brightly colored accessories never seem to find their way into my coyote hunting camo). The "art of decoying coyotes" turned out to be sticking a Montana Decoy in the ground now & then and squalling on a mouth call or an FX5. There was a guy blowing squalls that judging by the length, were meant to mimic a 70 lbs jackrabbit. I deleted this junk as soon as it stopped recording.

My opinion of hunting shows is safe...


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## tikkat3 (Jun 27, 2006)

Have you ever heard of Randy Anderson or the show predator quest?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

tikkat3 said:


> Have you ever heard of Randy Anderson or the show predator quest?


Predator quest is a joke too. LOTS of canned scenes in there.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I enjoy predator quest, but will have to admit some things about these shows give me a pain in the rear. My biggest gripe is they just sell products. They are 30 minute adds with some hunting thrown in. Oh, no, that was my second biggest gripe. The first is they show two to five minutes of hunting, then after the add they go back and show half of that over again. It's like they only have seven or eight minutes of actual footage to fill a 30 minute show. The normal hunting show starts with two minutes of add, then they go to two minutes of hunting, and another add that says brought to you by, and that goes for three minutes. Then we see the original two minutes over again with an additional three minutes. Then a three minute add comes on, or more like three one minute adds or six 30 second sound bites. Then there is four minutes of hunting video with two or three minutes of review again from the past footage. On and on until they get through the full seven or eight minutes which takes 30 minutes when adds are included. When there are more minutes of adds than hunting it isn't a hunting show it's an advertisement.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

tikkat3 said:


> Have you ever heard of Randy Anderson or the show predator quest?


Can't say as I've seen that show. Must not be available on the Direct TV package I have (Outdoor Channel & VS)...

The best coyote hunting video I've ever seen was quite a few years back, the guy had a dog trained to run out and tease coyotes into chasing it back to the shooter. If the coyote hung up the dog would stop & run back at it until the coyote took up the chase again. That dog did it time & again, and that guy bumped off a bunch of coyotes with it. I'm an amateur gundog trainer with a couple of very skilled labs, and that is still the most remarkable thing I've ever seen a hunting dog trained to do...

It was running on a video player at Scheels in GF and I was so fascinated I stood and watched it twice. Why I didn't buy it, I can't recall...


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## tikkat3 (Jun 27, 2006)

Well Les Johnson on predator quest annoys the heck out of me but I think he has a pretty loyal following. Randy is the man though when it comes to coyotes explains everything he does and it actually works if you do what he does.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

ND: I agree 100 per cent. When I got satellite TV, I figured I hit the jackpot with WLDTV. What a disappointment! It's manufactured excitement. Maybe the guys who get out once or twice a year or don't have much experience hunting get their fix but, as you say, they must think hunting is a spectator sport, because I find the drawls and the Bubbas to be just plain annoying.

As for Predator Quest, the only predator show on WLDTV, I give Les credit for doing what he obviously enjoys doing, is good at it, and has found a way to make a buck at it. I haven't timed the ads-versus-rerun footage-vs-actual hunting sequence but I don't doubt Plainsman's numbers. Give me action, not hype and huckstering.

Yeah, I know and can understand Les having to pitch products but the one that annoyed me the most was his Coyote in a Stick. Anyone with any yote hunting experience, when we first saw him plugging that produce, must have just shaken our heads in amazement. I don't think he fooled any of us who've chased dogs but the armchair callers probably ate it up.

I watch WLDTV not with the expectation to learn anything but for a few chuckles when there's nothing else on the tube. I understand the system, though. The shows you see aren't bought by the channel. Instead, the guys making the shows buy air time at so many dollars per half-hour for a flat rate. How much money the guys make depends on how many sponsors they get and obviously the more air time a sponsor gets in that segment, the more the sponsor is willing to pay.

It's not a sophisticated arrangement. I just sympathize with the wannabes who watch these shows, buy the products which they expect will turn them into Davey Crocketts, and finally have the light bulb go 'blink'. It's probably a disappointment for them when they realize there's more to hunting than watching Bubba shoot his 114 whitetail, decked out in $2,000 worth of camo and gear. As for the High 5's and the 'awesomes, well, it's already been said.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

saskcoyote said:


> Coyote in a Stick.


???????????


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yah, Coyote in a Stick. Looked like the same set-up as underarm deodrant. Les would pop off the cap, put a swipe of it on a sage brush or fence post downwind from where he was calling. The gig was the Coyote in a Stick would mask his scent so yotes couldn't get a whiff of him. After shooting a yote, Les would make sure he plugged 'C in a S' as the ultimate yote-nose neutralizer.

To be honest I haven't seen Les flogging 'C in a S' for while; could be because I haven't made it a priority to watch Predator Quest or the coyotes just weren't that stupid to get fooled by this gimmick (and maybe many of the guys watching the show weren't that stupid either).


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Hey, here'a an idea for a TV hunting show drinking game. You flip on either The Outdoor Channel or VS. and take a shot every time someone says "awesome". I figure a guy should be plastered in well under an hour... :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

NDTerminator said:


> Hey, here'a an idea for a TV hunting show drinking game. You flip on either The Outdoor Channel or VS. and take a shot every time someone says "awesome". I figure a guy should be plastered in well under an hour... :beer:


or #2 "that's what I'm talkin about"
or #3 "that's what it's all about"

:homer:


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## FullClip (Jan 22, 2007)

"hes a shooter"

Where Im from we only shoot trophies. Then truck box only holds 10 carcases, so we make sure there big! LOL :rollin:


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Best predator hunting videos = Verminators with Rick Paillet. IF you haven't seen them yet get them!


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## Bgunit68 (Dec 26, 2006)

I like Predator Quest. Funny, though, I almost didn't watch it. I was flicking and found predator Quest. I didn't know he was showing all his misses. I watched for about 5 minutes and thought what a horrible shot this guy is. But I did keep watching though. It is, at best, entertaining. I ordered a Coyote DVD from FoxPro I haven't watched it yet but it says right on it that it is more a hunting video with a little instruction on it. But they really should have an instructional video. A lot say they are but are more or less kill shots with a brief explanation. I think FoxPro or one of these other outfits should make a purely instructional video for all the type animals the call. They would include prep, setting up, calling and what to do with you game. They could have one for predators, crow and what every other things you can use their callers for. I've been hunting yotes for 3 years now and crow for 2. I would buy something like that in a heart beat. There's always room to learn new techniques. That's one of the things I love about this site. Every one hunts differently and they share that with everyone out here. You can get some great tips from these guys.


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## verg (Aug 21, 2006)

I agree. 90% of outdoor shows are junk. They are not made by experts they are just made by anyone with lots of money. I could start my own outdoor show as well if I could pay for the time as another guy said. I really really hate that guy that says "Hammer Time!" I also hate that cross eyed dude Stan Potts. "Gimme a second." I'd like to smack him. Must of us average joes could be more successful in the hunting world if he had the money to hunt some of the properties they do.
I have to admit, I do like predator quest despite the gimic comercials. Have you ever watched Predator Nation with Fred Eickler (sp)? Man is he a bad shot. Watched a show where they showed him miss 4 different yotes and a couple were inside 50 yds. But, at least they showed his mistakes..which are quite numerous. I just watched a show call Endless Season (i think). These hosts were two guys MAYBE in their early early twenties. Had the southern drawl and little knowledge. I was wondering who was footing their bill?
all in all, some of that is better than a lot of the crap on tv now days.
I want to start my own show on how to drink miller lite by the gallon. I really think I would be a good host and maybe get a following.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

The best thing on the outdoor channel right now is Jimmy Big Time.

Heck, some of the gold prospecting shows are more entertaining then most of the "pro" hunters. :lol:


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## FullClip (Jan 22, 2007)

Im wondering, how do you get to be a professional hunter? $$$$$ im guessing?


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

FullClip said:


> Im wondering, how do you get to be a professional hunter? $$$$$ im guessing?


I suspect nowdays it's more about how well the target audience responds to the "celebrity hunter" and buys what he/she's hawking, at least to get the TV gig. The prime example is Lee & Tiffany. Let's face it, if it were just Lee, it wouldn't be any different than any other show.

The gals watch because of the novelty of Tiffany hunting, and the guys watch (particularly the younger crowd) to fantasize about having a beautiful, fun, racked out type girlfriend/wife who also hunts (BTW, some of us have em', so eat your heart out! BTW #2, I think it's cheaper to be with a non-hunter gal because everything you buy for yourself/expenses for hunting is X2...)

Now don't get me wrong, even though she's probably about the same age as my son, like most any alpha male I find Tiffany attractive & charming in her perky, big eyed, girl-next-door way, and she does a lot of good by encouraging gals to try the outdoor lifestyle. Nor do I begrudge her the chance to make a darn good living doing it, however...

One thing you will notice with the celebrity hunters of the 2000's is that very, very, few openly speak out against anti-hunters/strongly speak in favor of 2nd Amendment rights. Pay attention and you'll see this is true. Apparently they don't want to anger sponsors who provide the golden goose and all that free gear & gratis hunts (I personally know a guide who told me he was paying Mossy Oak $10K a trip to have Cuz come up & hunt & film their show with him!) or if they want to use their position to do something other than sell whatever to hunters, are told to shut the hell up by said sponsors. The two notable exceptions are old school guys, Ted Nugent and Keith Warren, and I admire the hell out of them for it...

In the 80's when the hunting video thing took off, most of the celebrities were well established guides or outdoor writers who often were on various "pro teams" capitalizing on that foundation, or guys with outdoor companies for whom videos helped sell. Examples are Chuck Adams, Foulkrod, Miranda, Bill Jordan, Pete Shipley, etc.

BTW, I had a lot more respect for Chuck Adams when he shot for/pushed only Hoyt/Reflex and Easton arrows. Nowdays it seems he will sell anything. I find it surreal that for years he was one of the biggests opponents of mechanical broadsheads, and now he's pushing the current rage which are, well, Rage broadheads...


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

anytime you commercialize something, there will be trade offs. i have seen Less and Randy's vids. they are the only ones i have thought are worth owning. i have not seen Zink's stuff yet, but his goose vids are top notch. i may look into his coyote film. the others i have borrowed were a disappointment. especially the one where a guy has a dog go out and antagonize a young coyote into following it back to the "hunter". hardly what i consider calling coyotes. why not have someone shoot the coyote for you too? nothing directed at you, nd terminator, just the way i feel about it. it may be a different show, but still, listening to a dog bark at a coyote is an annoying lowpoint. the rest of the video was filled with mostly summer pup footage. what a joke. i don't have any outdoor channels on tv, but from what i have seen while visiting friends, i am not missing much. another thing, some of the hunting takes place on leased ground where the coyotes are left unbothered. a certain someone mentioned in this discussion won a major title this way. the man is a great caller and seems like a nice guy, but i am left a little disappointed. it's amazing what you learn when you know people who live in certain small towns...


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

It was so long ago I don't remember who did that video, but like/approve of it or not, take it from a guy who devotes a significant part of his life training & working with gundogs, that coyote tolling bit is one remarkable piece of dog training. The difficulty cannot readily be understood by someone who doesn't train dogs. This is not retrieving, trailing, or tracking, it an order of magnituide beyond that in difficulty for the dog to learn.

As a comparison, training two sessions a day starting with a 7 week old pup and beginning formal OB at 16 weeks old it takes me 18-24 months to train a Lab to Finished. That's with a pup whose genetics have been carefully & selectively bred to to optimize trainability, intelligence, personality, and instincts for the task, readily available training aids, tons of pro trainers to consult if I hit a snag, & established techniques & programs in book & video format.

On the other hand, there is no breed specialized for coyote tolling, there can't be but a handful of these guys doing this training, and resources have to be nearly non-existent. Training aids? How in the world do you simulate the task?!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dog training is based on basic OB and refining natural instincts, and there is no domestic canine instinct to jack around a natural enemy and lure it back to the handler. It's either fight or flight...

From reading your post I get the impression you admire coyotes, more power to you if you do, But FYI, my personal view of coyotes is much different than any other game animal or varmint I hunt. I just want them dead, as many and as efficiently as possible, full stop, period. Fox I rather like as they generally are just trying to make a living, coyotes will kill beyond that for the sheer hell of it.

I'm no coyote purist, I call because it's the most efficient way to kill them, I use an e-caller because it's more efficient yet. I like the 257 Wby for coyotes as it lets me kill them in wind conditions and at ranges when the 22 centerfires & even the 243 have gone home crying to momma.

I acknowledge their predator capabilities & survivability, but have no sense of admiration, love, or respect for them. Lose the number of fawns, gamebirds, poultry, stock, and pets as we do in ND to them, and more particularly, the critters I & my neighbors have lost and the wild game in the area I live in, I bet you would feel the same way...


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

kingcanada said:


> the others i have borrowed were a disappointment. especially the one where a guy has a dog go out and antagonize a young coyote into following it back to the "hunter". *hardly what i consider calling coyotes*. why not have someone shoot the coyote for you too? ...


They weren't calling coyote, they were "dogging coyote" so no they were not considering it calling either. A different technique of which you must have little knowledge. I found it to be one of the more interesting shows. If it weren't for dogs, I probably wouldn't do half the bird hunting I do. For some it's the hunt, others the kill, and those who think their way is the only way. I would bet that most of us have been in all three of those categories at one time.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i feared that might rub someone the wrong way. i don't intend for it to though. the video that showed the "dogging" was billed as a calling video. to make things clear, i do hunt birds with a dog. this post seemed to be commenting on the "******* factor" among other things. i just added my 2 cents. a good friend "dogs" coyotes like this. he continually tries to get me to go. i tell him that i hunt to get AWAY from barking dogs (my neighbors are not very considerate). as far as training, it's easier than it looks. most dogs will chase another canine, the trick is to make sure that they are well disciplined and return to you upon your signal. after a while it becomes natural. 
i would also like to mention that i respect Randy Anderson for making his videos 100% fair chase. it shows that he will put in the extra effort required to produce a quality product, even with the cheesy jokes.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

No fur rubbed the wrong way here, just clarifying where I'm coming from.... :beer:


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

FYI Verminators IV is coming out! Saw the add in the last issue of Trapper and Predator Caller. That will have to be purchased!


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

if you do want a copy of the video with the dog, it was "operation predator"(no. 3 i think, i only watched it once. years ago) with Al Morris. it's a Johnny Stewart video i believe. there is also one specifically about dogging coyotes, ironically it's produced by a coyote call company (E.L.K. i think), called "dogging coyotes". i have not seen it, but there may be training info.
and yeah, i do admire coyotes. fox too (the real bird killers). but hey, the good book says something about "love your enemy", right? :beer:


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## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

Fallguy said:


> FYI Verminators IV is coming out! Saw the add in the last issue of Trapper and Predator Caller. That will have to be purchased!


Its already out!!


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

LeviM said:


> Fallguy said:
> 
> 
> > FYI Verminators IV is coming out! Saw the add in the last issue of Trapper and Predator Caller. That will have to be purchased!
> ...


GF's selection of hunting stuff sucks. Have you seen it in Fargo? I'll be there after Christmas for a few days.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

"Fox I rather like as they generally are just trying to make a living, coyotes will kill beyond that for the sheer hell of it."

how many of us are guilty of spending an afternoon in a prairie dog town or field of ground squirrels? :biggrin: hits kinda close to home doesn't it? this is how the anti hunters view US. 
coyotes do often leave sheep after the kill. but realize that they learn that a bullet or guard dog kills them if they stick around. sheep are always on the move. that coyote can come back in an hour or two and feast on his kill. of course, this is where we step in! as far as fawns go, we had a massive 2 year aerial gunning campaign/ experiment to address this issue. result? coyote numbers are way down, golden eagle numbers are up. the eagles picked up where the coyotes left off. darn. money was wasted, coyote hunting was screwed up and big game hunting did not show much (if any) improvement. grazing conditions also limit big game herds, it's the number one factor. nature is a constant reminder of "damned if you do, damned if you don't". just look at the pheasant pop. in North Dakota. high numbers ruled in spite if predators, hunting pressure, and so forth. then the weather changed...but use whatever excuse you can to hunt coyotes, it's still fun! who knows, do it enough, learn to say things like "awesome" and "hooey boy!" and you too, can be on TV! :laugh:


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