# Ethics



## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Where have the ethics gone in our socitey? 
Republican, Democrat or Third Party, everyone is so afraid of being heard that they use the unethical bullhorn of slander to cut opponents views down.

Even on this forum, there are many who use this impersonal communication medium to attack and harrass others with the security that they will never have to defend themselves beyond a keyboard and a monitor. All the while disrespecting people nad their views.

There is a manager in my company that demonstrates this same type of behavior. If there is a problem he immediately sends out an APB E-mail ranting and attacking the alligations or the problem and the people involved. This seems to be common place in today's society. The empowerment of the void the internet provides in ethics and morals will be the gap that this young generation will need to bring. They are losing the art of the conversation and having debates in an ethical fashion.

Heck, I am as guilty as any on some subjects. The lack of parental ethical teachings and the abscence of study in classical ethics in school has already shown its face in the generations born in the early to late 80's when capitalism began to fuel our parents train of thought. Do not get me wrong, I am not anti-capitlaism, I am a strong supporter of a free and strong economy.

But now children are being taught how to accumulate wealth or why they should become a pro-athlete instead of how they should live a moral and ethical life and why that is more important to teach than how to be rich. I fully understand coming from a middle class family that it is very important to have more money coming in then going out, but without a firm base of ethical and moral principles we are setting our children up for an enormously hard journey through life.

With out these life skills our children will wake up (hopefully) when they are 40 and realize that they have lived thei life based on a false sense of what is right and wrong and WORSE they will ahve enstilled those principles into their children.

The fact is that modern society is so focused on accumulating wealth and consuming goods that it fails to provide its future generations with the skills that our grandfathers and forefathers had given to them by there's. HTese skills were learned through failure not through success, and unlike then then we today can lie, cheat and steal without it affecting us. But the erosion of these values and standards of that day have set our great nation up for a very tough time.

What many people do not realize is that with the Baby Boomers retiring the burden of supporting their social security is on this generation. In 1950 the cost to support one person on social security was spread across 7 individuals, today that number stand at 3.2. That is more than double. The ability for this generation to function and be productive is of interest to everyone.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

All the old timers tell me we started a downword spiral in 1963 and it seems they are right have things got any better since then? The old timers said then we had the hippies and drugs and society changed. Woman now wanted to work for a living and seemed to forgot they already had the most important job in the world "Raising the next generation". Now with the workforce essentally doubled we are all working for half wages, now two incomes are needed in most cases to raise a family and who teaches ethics and morals now , M TV, Puff Daddy,ICE T and my personell favorite M and M. Its all over, so run for the hills and watch your back and what you say all we can do now is take care of our own.


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

We discussed this some time back, but in my humble opinion you don't have to look much farther then Church attendance. In the 1950's over 75% of the people in this country attended some type of Church at least once a week. Now that number is somewhere around 30%. So around 70% of the people in this counrty don't really have a moral compass to ground them each week. They are at the mercy of society, and we know what our society is all about. If you don't know what I mean just turn on the T.V. There isn't a show on primetime t.v. that I can sit down and watch with my 6 year old daughter. The analogy that I us to describe what is going on in our society is this: If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, that frog is going to jump right out. But if you put a frog in a pot of luke warm water and slowly turn the burner up, that frog will happily boil to death. That is what we have done as a culture over the last 40 years. Slowly turned up the burner, to now we live in a society where we kill the unborn, kill the handicapped (Terri Schiavo), teenagers are taught in some public schools that oral sex isn't really considered sex, 12 year olds are frying their brains on methamphetamines, and the list sadly goes on.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

The idea that pop culture ruined our country is a load of crap. Just like you hate rap now, the old folks hated rock and roll when it first appeared. There has always been pop culture in this country, the older folks have always hated it. As to drugs, thats true that the hard stuff is more widespread than it was 30 or 50 years ago but at the same time they had their addicts, people hooked on booze. Church isin't necissary to have morals, in fact it often serves to skew them these days. If we want morals, we need a unifying principle that we can all rally behind. A nice moderate, reasonable political party would do the trick. The idea of patriotism just isin't cutting the mustard anymore, because we've always got radicals in office. To do that though we're all going to have to make some concessions in our positions, and I don't think either side is ready to exit their trenches quite yet.

As to education being sacrificed, I couldn't agree more. The older voting folks seem to have forgotten just how important it is to fund education properly. That is precisely why this country is slowly losing the tech and economical race to China and India. It doesn't surprise me though, people with poor education historically vote conservative, they wouldn't want to kill their own voting base for the future.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Its not pop culture that is ruining America, but the fact more and more families are turning into single parent families or at best both parents working. The youth is growing up with TV as the baby sitter, and lets face it oppotunities in America are dwindling. MT Im older than you but I am not an old fart Yet , Actually I kinda like The Getto Boys!!


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## indsport (Aug 29, 2003)

Ethics begin at home and must be taught early and often. Children question everything (how many times do you hear the word WHY from a 4 year old?) and mimic the parents behavior and attitudes. If one doesn't instill a good sense of right and wrong starting very young, no amount of school or church will repair the problem. 
Working women...? Yep, there are lots of them helping their husbands trying to make ends meet. As I posted earlier on a similiar topic, the facts show that one person, working two minimum wage jobs for 16 hours a day still leaves the family with two kids below the poverty line.

Keeping up with the Jones's is as old as time and our consumer culture is the only thing left driving the economy of this country. As a youngster growing up, not only did we not have a TV, there was only one station broadcasting in our area. My big christmas wish was extra boxes of shotgun shells. Now, how many have TV, computer, CD, DVD, $100 sneakers, and all the rest of the consumer goods (e.g. gotta have those big foot goose decoys)? just to try and keep up with the neighbors, and how many are charging it on their credit cards and going deeper in debt.

We cannot stop progress or the intrusion of what we think is bad for our children, but we can give them a solid grounding in ethics, morals, a sense of right and wrong, and the ability to decide the difference. It is not up to schools, churches or society to do your work for you.


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Storm please show me the lesson plan from the school you claim teaches teenagers that oral sex is not sex! Maybe I miss understood your statement if so please edit it to read different. School's both private and public are social, yes kids learn things such as sex in school, you made it sound as if its the schools fault, its the parents! :******: Its none of my business but I hope you are ready for not the talk about sex with your daughter but several. Weather she goes to private or public school it doesn't matter, I could tell you about a girl I dated who went to private school.

The sky is not falling every generation is not the same as the one before no matter how bad some want them to be. Things are cahnging as they always have.

TC


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

TC, I agree with you and I also have a question, do you as a teacher find the lesson plans for sex ed more shall we say loose than they use to be. I'm not sure if you have to teach any of this subject but if you do I would be interested in you opinion.


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## fox412 (Mar 18, 2005)

I totally agree that ethics should be taught mainly by the parents but most importantly they must be modeled by the parents. I have been teaching for almost 10 years now and I don't have to meet the parents to know what kind of people they are. I can tell by their kid.(In almost all cases) As for your statements on church MT your right you don't have to have it to have good ethics but it really helps. I would like to know how teaching to Ten Commandments and the Golden rule skews the believers morals. There are some things that some religious groups go overboard with IMO but for the most part they help. As for pop culture I feel that anything that glorifies drugs, greed, and careless sex is not good for the moral wellbeing of anyone. I don't want to sound like a fuddy duddy I am just barely over 30 but you can't say that glorifying those things are good. I just want to reiterate that the responsiblity falls mostly on the parents, but as for MT canidate in the next presidential election said. It takes a village to raise a child. Right MT didn't your girl Hillary say that?


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## Storm (Dec 8, 2004)

TC,
I have a teaching degree in Phys Ed with a Health endorsment. So I do have some knowledge in this area. I was talking with a gentleman from Zanesville, Ohio that now home schools his children. His comment to me was that in some areas of the country schools were teaching that oral sex wasn't really considered sex. I took this as the reason why he pulled his children out of public school. This was an issue back when Bill Clinton was being questioned about lieing in front of a grand jury. If you remember Clinton denied having sex with Monica Lewinsky, but later admitted to having oral sex with her, but he didn't consider this sex. So in his eyes he didn't lie in front of the grand jury (what a joke). 
When I was getting my teaching degree I took a class titled "Current issues in Education." One issue we talked about was the state of New York that was pushing for teaching 1st graders sex education (with total backing from the NEA.) Part of the curriculum was teaching that homosexuality was an alternative lifestyle. Also you may recall that Mayor Blumeburg from New York City has opened a school for Homosexual High Schoolers. This made national news and outraged many faith based groups. So I don't quite understand why you are upset about my comments. In many parts of the nation public schools are out of control and pushing a total liberal agenda. Now this isn't probably the case in North Dakota, or much of the midwest. That's a good thing, and is one reason why I live in this area. You are right parents have the biggest job, but unfortuantly 35% of caucasians are born into a single parent family, and 68% of African Americans are born into a single parent family. Its kind of hard to be good parents when you are the only parent.


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Thanks for making that clear Storm, I still find it hard to believe a school teaching oral sex as if it was a casual activity. Polotics aside Clinton lied simple as that. As for sex ed/health class it will always be a hot topic. Schools have stated they have to teach it because the parents are not holding up thier end of the deal.

Racer sorry I'm not a teacher although I have been a high school coach and have worked with youth for over ten years. I know several teachers and respect the profession and at one time my parents were both teachers. I don't even have kids of my own yet I am very concerned about youth nowdays. If you recall in the media in your neck of the woods what happened to a certain b-ball coach in Williston. The same thing happened to me in Williston. What does that have to do with this subject? Everything its the erosion of ethics in youth. Those high school girls had more power than teachers/coaches and they knew it, thats scary!
I have more hours of bus seat time than most on this forum and most of it was spent with a teenage girls high school team. I think its safe to say I heard more things than most teachers do in the classroom, not that I wanted to hear it but I did. When I scolded the team and some of the guilty individuals for the conversations they were having in front of me, the male coach, and they ment for me to hear them, thier reaction was that they should be able to talk about what ever they want and if I didn't like it I should wear head phones!  No shame... sad. 
TC


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Racer not having taught sex ed since I'm not a teacher, I talked to a friend of mine who has taught sex ed. I'm 32 and the only sex ed I received in school (minot) was maybe 20 minutes of a health class. My friend the same age as me, said "If we were to teach the same thing as we were taught, they would be laughed at." Now education deals with the consequences or what could happen. It's not that kids now know more than years ago its that there is no shame with it now. She sais all she can do is present facts she can not change the morals of todays youth even though she tries.

TC


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Sorry for the confusion TC, I assumed when you said you coached, you were also a teacher. I also have several relatives in teaching but I guess I have never asked them the question before, I definitely will in the future though.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Mil Tig ... I try not to attck people personally, instead I think that a person needs to refute facts. But in your case you need to understand that you are 16 yrs old and that yes you do bring a certain perspective to this forum. What you should understand is that you need to learn from other peoples perspectives and shape your perspectives from theirs. I am not saying of course that you need to give into someone else's opinion, but you need to try to understand it. We learn form you, even though we may not agree with your positions, it does cause us to see things from a different perspective.

Anout your comments on pop culture, there are no comparisons to the rock and roll age. I am 26, I am in the pop culture, it is a machine created to drive industry and induce consumption of goods. It has eroded the nation's value and moral base. I have been on spring break, I ahve been to music festivals, I have lived the"college life". It is all driven to enhance consumtion and it promotes irresponsibility and yes you do have experiences and you will learn from those experiences but what it fails to teach you is how to base your decisions on a set of principles that you and you alone will ahve to live out.

So the defense that pop culture is the same as rock and roll is a farse. Rock and roll was something that started with artists similar to the blues or jazz. Do you think that this is a good description of what pop culture is, it is a marketing machine that has one purpose, sell sell sell.

So be sure that you do your research on where and how rock and roll originated and how and why pop exists.


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

ND kid to be fair its more than just the pop culture that has the mission of sell sell sell thats the whole corporate agenda, and there are plenty of 50 or 60 year olds that have benefitted quite well. Your original post was about ethics. How many people get wealthy off creating poverty? Ethics isn't a a generational thing the lack of ethics exists in some who are 10,20,30 and some who are 80.

TC


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Ethics isn't a a generational thing the lack of ethics exists in some who are 10,20,30 and some who are 80.


What do you base that on as fact. At least explain why ethics in this country has declined in each of the last couple generations.


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Every generation will think the ethics of other generations are different! If you were to research your family tree would you find anyone who thought slavery was ok? It wasn't long ago it was ok to castrate boys to preserve thier voice  And the church did that! The 80 yr old, if my grandfather were alive today he would be 80. I learned alot from him he taught me as a kid respect for elders and how to treat women, never hit them never belittle them ect... He also taught me the value of hard work and to provide for your family. Having said all that he had some racist qualities? Is that fact enough. Things are in a constant state of change, Its my opinion but I think the wild change of ethics or morals in youth today has a lot to do with the lack of social skills in kids today. Entertainment is provided not created by kids. If that isn't a problem now it will be, kids don't know how to resolve problems. I say wild change because one generation removed from me, I'm 32, compared to teenagers now there is a difference from when I was a teenager.

What I would call the recent moral erosion isn't just kids its people my age and older as well. I don't think its the 18 yr olds responding to the viagra ads, but they are exposed to it and some blame the kids?. :huh:

Your right to think ethics/morals have declined, some have gotten better over the years. Call me crazy but just look at history. Look at the history of the bathing suit, or skirt how much exposed skin was to much? If you pick an acceptable amount I bet it would differ from your parents our grandparents. I hope at some point things start to swing the other way some kids are already walking around half naked.

TC


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

What your grandfather taught you concerning women was ethics. What ever racist views he may of had were most likely formed from ignorance, not ethics. Your comparing apples to oranges. People during the early days of slavery thought it was natural and their God given right to place certain groups of people into slavery and saw nothing wrong in this. People at one time thought it was proper to burn people at the stake as witches. Neither one of the two events just mentioned has anything to do with ethics. I'm a lot older than you and I still address people I don't know as sir and ma'am. I hold the door open for others, especially for the elderly and women. The young just blow right by while the elderly say think you...........which one has ethics.

Ethics is the evaluation of human conduct in the light of moral principles. I'm old enough to still be able to observe three generations and I assure you there is a decline in ethics from my generation to the present day. I can also assure you that each generation will reap the results of the ethical standards they pass to the next.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Guys its over, we will be a third world country in 50 years. A generation is growing up without adult supervison, Moms are not at home. The family was the cement of America and it crumbled. Thats all I got to say, now all I got to do is wait, For the next Civil WAR!!!


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Bore I hate to say it but I agree, only I don't think it will be 50 years it will be a lot sooner, my geuss is 25 or 30 rears. We are in state where we don't care about family nor our fellow countrymen. The secret to financial success is based on screwing people over verses helping people aquire success themselves.

Some experts already consider North Dakota a 3rd world country and if you look into the similarites and polocies I tend to believe it. Thats my opinion guys don't jump me because I didn't quote the fact manual.

TC


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> 25 or 30 rears


.
You know tail chaser looking at your handle I kind of think that was Freudian.

Sad, but you are correct we don't think about each other anymore. We all want the same thing yet liberals and conservatives argue. The politicians promote the dissention among us by a few ridiculous items in their party platform. Like gay marriage for example. They do it because as long as we bicker they get by with anything. How do we step on these self appointed little king?

Our people in North Dakota certainly don't reflect North Dakota values. They must stay within their party boundaries because if they don't they think they are fair game. So what do they do? They go along with all the crap that the east and left coast promote. They do it however at their own peril. Ask the little socialist from South Dakota if that isn't so.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

I think its a bunch of crap, my generation was not any better then these kids. we done a lot of things that most people my age have managed to forget so just because this generation have a few more opportunitys does not make them a bunch of losers. Most teens like nothing better then to have a chance to work after school or during the summer. Just go shopping in your local super market and see who are at the checkouts. When we were kids we smoked Bull Durham and drank a little moonshine if we could get our hands on it. But we also worked when there was work. We envyed the older ones as they were able to join the CCC. Why don't you guys for once try to find some thing positive in this world. I consider myself blessed as served in two wars and still have my health at 80 years.
Have the same wife after over fifty years and enjoy life every minute. Some of these posters would bash you if you gave recipe for apple pie. :beer:


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Exactly adokken, no matter how much people want to believe it my generation has no more trouble makers than any other. As well I wasn't aware that you were in both the second world war and as well as another (korea?), thank you.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have many friends in law enforcement that would disagree with you adokken. I don't think your out there seeing it. Also, we are insulated here in North Dakota. Drugs are much more common. Violent crime is much more common. That isn't just the kids, it is society as a whole. How many kids did you grow up with in North Dakota who when questioned by an officer tell him to F off and take a swing at him. It happens today. It happens because the courts don't stand behind police officers. What would have happened 50 years ago if a kid spewed profanity and hit a police officer in the face for a speeding ticket. He would have spent jail time. Today the judge may fine him $50 if that. He might be so unlucky as to get six months probation.

Could you safely walk down south Phoenix, LA, Chicago and other big cities and feel relatively safe 50 years ago? In south Phoenix today after the sun goes down the kids will pull a knife and gut you.

MT I hope you aren't really going to tell us about the old days now. Like 1995. Were talking 1955 and 1960, and we don't care what your read we lived it. Much of history isn't worth the paper that it is written on. Think about it if Hitler had won world war II what do you think our history books would say now. And please, don't be so silly as to think I liked Hitler.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Plainsey just because your buddies weren't the bad crowd when you were a boy doesn't mean they weren't there. Every generation is going to have its share of bad kids, and it seems like its about the same percent of each age group.



> Could you safely walk down south Phoenix, LA, Chicago and other big cities and feel relatively safe 50 years ago? In south Phoenix today after the sun goes down the kids will pull a knife and gut you.


Please don't try to talk about the modern days. It isin't like that Plainsman no matter what you read. There are gangs today, there was the mafia in the 20's.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Every generation is going to have its share of bad kids, and it seems like its about the *same percent *of each age group.


Absolutely wrong. I didn't read it MT my son lived in a Phoenix suburb, in a very expensive area, and still they found bodies in dumpsters just a few blocks north of his house. Road rage was a daily occurrence, and multiple times daily. 
Also, there were a few bad guys years ago, but there were not as many, and bad things didn't happen with the same frequency.
Also my information doesn't come from reading, but first hand experience, and the experience of law enforcement officers and judges that I believe. 
There isn't many advantages to being old, but I can address many years ago because I was alive then. It also doesn't negate my ability to talk about today. I have noticed MT that you are very touchy about your age. I have also noticed you think you know more about today's society. I don't agree of course, but I strongly disagree that you can talk with as much credibility about forty years ago.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

Firsthand experience from other people, wouldn't that make it second hand experience? And thus wouldn't my second hand experience be just as valid? I guess with age you gain the right to BS as well.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> first hand experience, *and *


Try stick to the truth here MT, people only need to look back one or two posts to see your assertion is false. We should be able to debate, but stay honest. I would guess your second hand experience is from left wing thing tanks on the net, and fellow kiddies. My second hand sources are law enforcement and judges that I have spoke with face to face. Not rumors in sophomore study hall.


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## fox412 (Mar 18, 2005)

adokken I don't think we are just reffering to the youth of America. We're (at least I am) talking about society as a whole. There are good kids and bad kids good adults and bad adults. I blame the parents of kids much more than I blame the kids. I hope that I do a better job raising my kids than a lot of the parents of the kids I teach. Over the past few years schools have had to introduce character education. Why? Because parents and society and pop culture don't teach them anymore. A loss of ethics is not to be blamed on an a kid that hasn't been taught any better. Its the fault of those who did not teach and show him/her better. Adokken just look at the heros you had as a kid and though they may have had their faults they are quite tame to the role models have today. We reward the selfish and the unethical much more than we did in years past. As long as kids see that that thats what they strive to become. These things just lead me to the thought that things are going to worse before they get better.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Plainsey just because your buddies weren't the bad crowd when you were a boy doesn't mean they weren't there. Every generation is going to have its share of bad kids, and it seems like its about the same percent of each age group.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There were bad kids when I was growing up. However, there are several very distinct differences. For one, a respect for authority, the kids I grew up with thought nothing of drinking alcohol, getting into fights and all other kinds of mischief, but, when challenged by an authority figure, we shut the hell up, listened to and did exactly what we were told to do. And secondly, for the most part, the kids I grew up with accepted responsibility for their own actions, something that very few kids do now days, it's always someone else's fault.

And, M_T, no matter what you read, it is exactly like that in almost every large city in the country today. Something that your buddies in the media don't normally talk about. It would hurt the image of our cities. As the State President of the FOP I travel all over the country. In almost every city I've been to, I've been told not to go into certain areas unless I was carrying my sidearm. Do you really think that the police officers in these places were telling me that to be funny? Stick to something you know M_T, it's pretty clear that you don't know squat about this.

huntin1


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Fox

I partially agree, but society has tied the hands of parents so that they can not discipline their children anymore. The liberal idea that you can not spank little Johnny made little Johnny a lot more brave with defying his parents. It also made little Johnny a lot more brave with police and everyone else. I have watched sophomores step in front of cars on icy streets just because they thought it was cool to scare the driver. They think they are safe because no one would dare hit them. Liberals have no problem killing the unborn, but heaven forbid a parent spank a brat.


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## fox412 (Mar 18, 2005)

Oh don't get me wrong I agree with you 100% plainsman. Those potiticians had to have backing though. Hands are tied no doubt about it. I have seen kids do that kind of stuff as well. I'm not originally from ND I grew up in a town that if you were driving through certain areas and you had a flat you just keep driving on the rim. I know what your talking about man. I teach a 16 year old kids that has more kids than I do. Its sad to know that those kid will probably grow up to be unethical people.

PS Those liberal ideas are not followed in the Fox den.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

> And, M_T, no matter what you read, it is exactly like that in almost every large city in the country today. Something that your buddies in the media don't normally talk about. It would hurt the image of our cities. As the State President of the FOP I travel all over the country. In almost every city I've been to, I've been told not to go into certain areas unless I was carrying my sidearm. Do you really think that the police officers in these places were telling me that to be funny? Stick to something you know M_T, it's pretty clear that you don't know squat about this.


Exactly how close do you live to a major city? Because I know that I live quite close to a big city, I happen to believe that I know a thing or two about the life there. I really don't care what your paranoid buddies who went to a city once or twice told you, you aren't going to find trouble unless you go looking for it 99% of the time.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Thanks hunt1, but I am sure MT thinks he knows more about crime than a 25 year career police officer. I don't think you could drive a new idea into MT's head with a hammer. You have talked with hundreds perhaps thousands of officers, can you imagine how much time you could have saved by simply talking to MT first.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

No, I'm simply not going to be told by an oldster that my generation is nothing but punks and troublemakers and that you can't walk in most major cities without being shot or mugged.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> Plainsey


Perfect example ................ you're a kid, you're speaking to an adult. You want to be treated like an adult then show respect towards your elders. You want to be a smart *** kid the with "Plainsey" talk, then don't cry when no one takes you serious.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Once again the all knowing, world traveling, military genius, war historian, societal expert, psychologist, mind reading, economist, 16 YEAR OLD, has spoken.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Militant_Tiger said:


> Exactly how close do you live to a major city? Because I know that I live quite close to a big city, I happen to believe that I know a thing or two about the life there. I really don't care what your paranoid buddies who went to a city once or twice told you, you aren't going to find trouble unless you go looking for it 99% of the time.


Aahh, these are career police officers who live in, work in these cities. Not some snotnosed kid who lives close to one, and thinks he knows everything there is to know about everything. I think I'll take their word over yours, thanks.



> Thanks hunt1, but I am sure MT thinks he knows more about crime than a 25 year career police officer.


Yeah, it sure seems that way, doesn't it.



> I don't think you could drive a new idea into MT's head with a hammer.


Comprehension of new ideas requires grey matter, does it not?



> You have talked with hundreds perhaps thousands of officers, can you imagine how much time you could have saved by simply talking to MT first.


Silly me, I feel quite embarrassed to think that I could have saved all that time and money just by talking to a 16 year old kid from Michigan. :roll:

huntin1


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Wow, all of us seem to be good at pointing out the problem, myself included, the question is how do we fix it? As fruedian as my earlier statements might seem, darn typos, I consider myself a well rounded North Dakotan with a grounded sense of morals. It seems as if we have turned this tread into a blame game of generations and I don't see it that way its just the result.

Since some of you have mentioned law enforcment, I'll tell you a hot story around here. A Bishop Ryan High School wrestler was arrested for a fake id when purchasing beer, and assult when he tried to get the id back and the female clerck kept it. The trial was postponed so he could still wrestle and possibly brake some records. Once the season was over he was found guilty and now he gets out of jail to attend graduation. I don't know who was instrumental in delaying the legal process, but the way I see it many are guilty in the brake down. Parents for one, as a coach this crap would have never flown with me he would have been done, but I might have been sued over the whole thing. What about the school? you see its not just the kids its everybody involved. This is why I was fired as a coach, I stood up to parents as a coach and they found a way to get rid of me. Society is guilty its not a particular generation.

Oh ya and even though some of you may think I'm crazy liberal who is a vegan and always wears sandles, I say spank that kid,(ealier post).

Last year as coach I had a 16 year old punch me and when it came time to have the meeting with the parents and program director the mother blamed me and slammed the door and walked out. I wonder were he got his temper problem and his disrespect for authority?

I don't know all the solutions but I can tell you as a mentor of young adults I will not back down or sacrafice what I think is right If I get fired again so be it!

TC


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

Unbelievable TC, I have one 9 year old wrestling and an 11 year old playing basketball and if either one of them disrespects any of their coaches or teachers, well let's just say it's not going to be good. The coaches in high school and JV definitely aren't in it for the money, they do it because they love the game and the kids. As far as the wrestler in Minot that pulled that stunt, I can't imagine the thought process behind covering this event up so he could continue to wrestle. I'm behind you 100%, don't ever back down, as far as solutions go, I think the parents need to come back to reality and explain what respect and decency is.


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Racer if more parents were only like you! :beer:

I remeber growing up playing sports and some things I was told over and over were "listen to your coach, do what your coach sais, how was practice did you work hard?" When I overhear parents talking to kids now I hear" Did you win? Did you score a goal? Why did your coach do that?"

If any of you have children in athletics especially at the high school level the coaches were more than likely picked from several applicants and hired because they were the most qualified to fill the position. If you think you can do a better job apply for it. Untill then be a parent not a sideline coach. Most of coaching has to do with getting kids to believe in doing something they don't think they can do. It can't be done when someone they respect such as Mom or Dad bad mouths the coach at the dinner table. 
:soapbox: 
I couldn't believe I had gained a reputation as being hard on kids from some people and a reputation of getting the most out of some. Then I reolized who was saying I was hard on the kids it was the parents who were not. 
TC


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

I went back and reread Northdakotakid's original post and I would suggest everyone do the same, what a great post.

The real question is what are each of us going to do about it? Talk is cheap remember.

TC


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

This is what we gotta do! Start a grass roots group of people such as ourselfs that are for the preservation of the American way of life. They would be funded throught donations etc etc. Teach the kids that we dont live in Disneyland and not everybody is your freind. Now that we are in a global world they will be compeating with people that have nothing to loose and will work twice as much for half the pay! Show them how foreigners are not out at keg parties or trying to be gangstas, they are becoming doctors lawyers. Show them how the world really works. Expose political correctness for what it is. But we need a voice right now all we hear is the noise of the left wing and minority groups. We have no voice because we are too busy working to support evrybody else. And this is going to take BIG BIG BALLS!!! Are most rare resorce!


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

Parents, 
I meet so many people that think it's sooo important to be the"cool parent". 
Well guess what? 
What your kid may hate you for today, they will thank you for it when their, say....22.
That's part of being a PARENT, sometimes the best discession doesn't always feel soooo good, think of it as an investment in your kids future.
I've Coached football and baseball and screw-up kids seem to have a common denomanater, parents that don't either know how to be a good parent or one of the two parents is absent or interfearing with good parentting.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> He that does NOTHING makes NO errors!


Good tag line but I thought "*He that makes NO errors learns NOTHING*" was the other half?


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

Okay, well we all have our opinions about the moral direction of society, but blame will only act like a rocking chair, it will keep us busy but get us no where.

The intention of my original post was just to identify a problem and ignite debate. As mentioned before we have all had our generational problems.



> The fact is that modern society is so focused on accumulating wealth and consuming goods that it fails to provide its future generations with the skills that our grandfathers and forefathers had given to them by there's. These skills were learned through failure not through success, and unlike then we today can lie, cheat and steal without it affecting us. But the erosion of these values and standards of that day have set our great nation up for a very tough time.


One thing that has began to emerge is the formation of public and private ethics. Private ethics being what people do with their bodies and how they relate to people they know personally and public ethics being how people relate to institutions: corporations, schools, or government. This is of course not a new idea but the connotations of how we interact today, especially in younger adults and kids, have began a major shift in the morals and ethics that guide our decisions in every aspect of life.

In my opinion because of these distinctly different views of Right and Wrong based on who or what is being dealt with has greatly hindered this younger generation in developing sound, ethical rules to live their life by.

I completely agree that this is not limited to this generation.

In business there is never an excuse for a team or group to fail because it is the managers of these teams/groups that ultimately are to blame. They must guide and instill their crew with the proper tools and training to achieve their goals. So, yes, if we are to attack this generation of kids for their lack of ethical and moral behavior, well as their teachers and ultimately their "life managers" we had better not look to far from the tree.

*With that being said how does one go about instilling ethics and morals into a generation?*
When I was finishing my last year of undergrad I had an epiphany, that my father had lived 3 times as much life as me, about 8 times as much of an adult life as I had and what he says as advice is worth at least 100 times more than my own because if you look at all that he has endured and all the mistakes he has had to live his experience is priceless

He told me" the best lessons in life are the hardest to live with but teach you the most because you have to live them, not just make them."

That is the difference; you have to "live your mistakes". In the world we live in you can move half way across the planet, change your log in name, get a different spouse, get some new friends, change jobs, abandon your children or just live off a government program and avoid life altogether.

So in short, if we all would like to change how our children, our co-workers and our officials live their lives we must first ourselves learn to live our own mistakes.

By living Our own mistakes and teaching others that by living their own mistakes it will create a patchwork by which the moral fabric of society will be stitched and bound. Creating a better place to live for all and avoiding the massive societal problems that we all foresee in the near future. No, not all of them, but it will teach ALL OF US that we need to live our life in a moral and ethical fashion, and that the path starts at our own two feet first.

P.S.
Please, for those that would attack me and say that I should live my own life and that my father lived in another time, save the rebuttal. I know this and understand that I make my decisions based on what I believe to be right that is derived from my beliefs and the insight I receive from those that I interact with through my life.


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