# Need help with picking a rifle



## chrisk15 (Jun 28, 2010)

Ok so i want to get a rifle, this will be my first, but i have experience with military rifles and weapons thru the marine corp, but little knowledge on any other weapons. please tell me the best rifle i can get with the following requirements. i want it to be semi- automatic, at least a 20 round magazine, shoot a 7.62 x 51 NATO round or the winchester .308 , not the 7.62 x 39, also with these requirments i want a decently accurate and durable gun that jams very little, my spending limit is 1000$ not to include magazines and ammo just the gun hopefully one that has an iron sight standard. some of the few i found are DPMS, PTR- 91, FAL, CETME, saiga , hk g3, and the m14. whats the best to fit my qualifications or whats a better one to fit please help.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

My brother has a .308 AR style rifle and it is a monster , great for bench rest shooting but large and cumbersome , I DONT LIKE IT . Shoots great put for practical use no way . Remington has a new cartridge I think it is called the 308 AR? Fits in m-16 sized rifles and hits like a 7.62 or 308. You may want to look into this kind of rifle , I think the R-25 Remington may be the way to go for you?

Personally I would look into the Browning BAR for a semi-auto , I was looking at the Browning BAR short track at the gun shop and it was sweet. lightweight and a good rep for accuracy. Check one out they look ugly on the web but in real life they are nice if you know what I mean.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I would ask the first question what do you consider decently accurate?

You may be hard pressed to get one for under a grand in an AR pattern. I would look at a DPMS in 308. I have seen some close to the 1,000 mark. Most are kind of on the high side. I have a AR-10A2 and I love it. It is a little heavy and not really balanced all that well but it shoots well and it has adjustable sights like the standard M-16A2

The BAR will not meet your requirements with mag cap. I have seen a few out shooting and I do not know if it was the shooter or rifle but they all were MOA rifles at 100yds. All of them had scopes on them. I have an M1 Garand that will shoot MOA and it is over 50years old with a new tube on it. No other work done to it. That is with hand loads.

Most other semi 308 rifles that have 20rd mags are not known for their accuracy. Some do shoot ok but ok is not match accuracy. The L1A1 or FN-FAL are plenty good if you get a new one. Mine is a 1.5 to 2 MOA rifle with good ammo. Standard ball it is 2 to 3 MOA. My Dad has a rebuilt semi-auto G3 and with good ammo it will hold MOA. With standard ball I have shoot groups from 1.5 to 3 MOA. Most are around the 2MOA range. They do make a Semi M-14. A good one will easily shoot MOA or less with good ammo if you know how to do your part. They are a little harder to shoot accurately than most other rifles. They are also hard to keep shooting accurately. Most that shoot the M1A in Service Rifle comp have given it up for just that reason. There are a few hold outs but they either work with the limits or know how to do some work them self. 
Even the USMC is getting rid of their M-14's. They are keeping the ones for EOD.

http://www.marines.mil/unit/iimef/4thme ... -Terrorism unit evaluates rifle.aspx - 39KB - 1/14/2009

Anti-Terrorism unit evaluates rifle 
Story Date
4/8/2004 By 
Byline
Cpl. Sharon E. Fox, 
Unit
4th Marine Expeditionary Brigade (Anti-Terrorism)

Dateline
STONE BAY, N.C. - 
Page Content
"'One shot. One Kill.' That's what this weapon is going allow us to do," said Maj. Gen Douglas V. O'Dell after firing a 7.62mm Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle.

The 4th Marine Expeditionary Brigade (Anti-Terrorism) is evaluating the weapon to confirm what many Marine and Army combat after action reports, Marine Corps Warfighting Lab experiments, assessments and evaluations have concluded - that the SAM-R provides excellent, precision-firing capability in a more reliable, durable and supportable platform than the M-14 DMR (current designated marksman rifle).

O'Dell, the Commanding General for the 4th MEB (AT) had the opportunity to fire the SAM-R March 30, during a demonstration of the SAM-R's capabilities.

"We're having reliability and supportability problems with the M-14 DMR," said Capt. Charles E. Hawthorne, training officer, 4th MEB (AT).

The M-14 was first fielded in 1957 as a service rifle and was replaced by the M-16 in 1963. To create an M-14 DMR, stock M-14 service rifles are extensively modified by specially trained armorers at the Precision Weapons Section in Quantico, Va.

"Not only do designated marksmen have to learn a completely new weapon system, but if the weapon requires maintenance beyond the operator, only specially trained armorers are able to fix it," said Hawthorne.

Because of parts commonality with the M-16 A-2/A-4, a basically trained armorer can fix the SAM-R with only a few days of additional training. Only after an additional required year of specialized training is an armorer able to work on the existing M-14 DMR.

The SAM-R already has a recognized national stock number, so parts are easily obtained, whether in the states or deployed. The M-14 is no longer manufactured, so the only way to fix it is to send it back to the states.

"A weapon is not combat effective if we are unable to service it quickly when it goes down," said Hawthorne. "In our fight against terrorism, one shot, one kill is exactly what we want; if we can get a more reliable weapon, this increases the chances that our enemies are on the receiving end of that one shot."

Cpl. Charles C. Charlson, a Great Falls, Mont., native, and 4th MEB (AT) designated marksman instructor feels the SAM-R is one of the most solid weapons he has ever shot. "My shot groups are extremely tight with this weapon, even at great distances."

The maximum effective range of the SAM-R is 1000 meters; much further than many other weapon systems. The range of fire also increases with a night vision detection scope.

"If you aren't able to see your target, the scope clears up a lot of distortion so you are able to see your target more clearly," said Cpl. Robert C. Johncox, also a 4th MEB (AT) DM instructor and Milwaukee, Wisc., native.

A NVD scope, as well as other rifle aids are easily attached to the SAM-R without having to change the zero on the rifle because it uses a modular rail system and a free floating barrel.

There are many advantages to this weapons system, said Charlson. The scope on the rifle also allows the SAM-R to aid in the adjustment of supporting arms like the 81-mm mortar.

"Getting this weapon into the hands of our Marines makes sense," said O'Dell. 
The SAM-R is simply a more accurate M-16. Because of it's floated barrel and variable power optic [scope], it is a valuable capability when fighting insurgents in rural and urban environments.

"The ability to shoot this weapon accurately is simple, and that is what we need for our Marines," said O'Dell.

Additionally, because all Marines are already trained with the M-16, riflemen equipped with the SAM-R only need some additional training on the optics and marksmanship in order to be an effective DM.


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## Ambush Hunter (Jun 29, 2009)

I am afraid there is no right answer for a $1000 question. You need to drop at least 2 for a good one. It is what it is. Do it once, do it right, and cry only once. In the long run, 2 grand is actually cheaper than 1, if you know what I mean...


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## chrisk15 (Jun 28, 2010)

thanx for the posts guys, what i meant with accuracy was that i want a rifle that can shoot a good group at about 300 to 500 yards, i dont care for a rifle that can hit a quarter five times in a row at 1000 yards as long as it drops a human size target at 500 yards, but after a lot of research i reall like the FAL now my concern is what company makes the best one, shuld i get a usa made one or a foriegn one, whats the best FAL.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Rock River arms has a 308 AR out now that I think is a little nicer than the DPMs version. It retails around $1,000.

You would have so many more options if you could saved up longer; $1,000 is the absolute bottom barrrel lower limit of the Semi-automatic 308 world. for around $1,400 you get into the FNAR and Armalite AR-10.


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## chrisk15 (Jun 28, 2010)

okay lets say my spending limit moves up to $2000, whats the best semi auto 308 rifle, with the 20 round mag minimum, not a cent over the 2 grand mark tho


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

Question: Why are you stuck on semi autos? Just curious is all. Also, why do you only care if it shoots "minute of human sized targets" at 3-500 yds?

Thought the military/LE issued weapons nowadays.

For $2k, you could get a hell of a bolt action/scope set up.


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