# This weekend I learned about trespassing the hard way...



## GKBassplayer

A couple of buddies and I decided to take a trip this year for duck opener. We headed west from NDSU a couple of hours and found a pretty sweet hotel with four single beds to stay in for $65 a night. So we packed the trailer and headed out Friday afternoon so we could scout and be ready in the morning. After having a great hunt Saturday morning, (4 man limit of greenheads and geese by 9:00am), we scouted again Saturday night and found another field with geese and ducks feeding. Driving around this six-section piece of land we determined that a bean field on the edge of the road was posted but the stubble wheat field that the birds were feeding on in the middle of this piece of land was fair game to hunt. We returned this morning, set up and started shooting our birds. As I left my blind to pick up some ducks I see a truck plow thru our decoys and continue to do figure eights inside the entire 10dz full body duck and goose spread. He never stopped to talk other than yelling at us for being on posted land. All four of us were standing there in shock. Mowing down some 4 dz geese and another dozen mallards, a finisher (which I just bought this year and contained a thermos, my blind bag and a few boxes of shells and not even to mention the guy had no idea there wasn't a person in it), a mojo and some floater ducks, by the way almost killing my friends golden retriever. He left as quickly as he appeared, we ran to the truck to pick up our gear, not before taking some 50 pictures and left. We called the local C/O and he forwarded the call to the sheriff who came out and assessed the situation. We brought him to the field to find out if it had been legally posted. He determined that it had been, but he totally understood where we were coming from and said it was an honest mistake and knew we hadn't done it on purpose. NOW WHAT??? Do we press charges for the $1000+ in damage but risking a $500 fine for trespassing? We told the sheriff not to do anything and let us think the situation over. This guy had no right, I don't care if I was trespassing or not to destroy our gear in that fashion. This was completely out of line. It was an honest mistake and I'm sorry. I have never been accused of trespassing before and you can bet I will never again. There is a right way to go about things and a wrong way. I want your opinions &#8230;










This was only some of our stuff, still missing a few cracked FFD's


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## GKBassplayer

I forgot to mention. This whole deal sold me on big foots for life. The FFD's and the full body mallards all cracked but the big foots just popped back into place, minus the loss of many feet and heads, all the bodies were %100 OK


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## 94NDTA

Some farmers are crazy, FYI. There are a lot of awesome farmers out there, but there are a few 4th generation farmers who havn't been off their farm for centuries that are simply crazy. Looks like you experienced the latter. I've been chased off a land by a farmer with a shot gun in hand. It had snowed, and his ONE sign was completely covered in snow. That didn't stop him from nearly taking aim at me.

You could always set his field a fire.

That would be a bad idea though.

FYI, I would check with a lawyer, even if there wasn't someone in the blind, that may be attempted manslaughter.


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## USAlx50

One more reason that I'll make sure to talk to landowners if there is a posted sign anywhere near the field I plan on hunting, whether it is a "legal" posting or not.

I guess the good luck comes with the bad. That is one heck of a gun one of you guys won at the DU banquet. Sucks about the decoys, i regret ever buying an avery decoy as well.


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## Benelliman

I would be curious to see what the guy did wrong. Technically he was driving on his own property correct?

I'm not supporting his actions in any way, but am curious if under the strict definition of the law he broke any? Unless they were going to make some kind of bodily endangerment claim?

Did this make the newspapers? It would seem to me to be quite an event that somebody would get ahold of the press.


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## diver_sniper

I'm by no means an expert on law, but as the last person said, an argument could certainly be made that he wasn't doing anything wrong driving on his own property. Especially if they determined that it was legally posted. I'm not at all saying what he did was cool, but it sounds like it might be a tough one to get anything out of. Maybe you could check into the law and see if there's a certain thing a landowner is supposed to do when they have someone trespassing. Maybe his actions put him in the wrong somehow and trump the posted signs.

Like Brody said, this is an excellent example of why it's a good idea to go ask for permission to hunt whether it's posted or not. I know a lot of people that think it's such a hassle, but you're ten times better off by taking 15 minutes to figure out who's land it is, even if it's unposted.


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## GKBassplayer

So your saying if someone parked their car in your driveway you have the right to smash into it because its in your driveway? I dont think so...The sheriff said that he would %100 percent get felony vandalism if we brought this to court.


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## MrSafety

Sounds to me like this farmer has been burned before...........scary behavior though  ............curious as well to hear a more detailed "legal" side to this..........


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## Sasha and Abby

I would press charges. You made an honest mistake. He deliberately put life and property at risk - that was not a mistake.


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## dblkluk

Like others have said this is exactly why I try to ask permission for everything I hunt, But I understand that sometimes its impossible to find who owns it, or whatever.
These days I still get a little nervous hunting a field that I haven't talked to the landowner about. Even if I know full well it is not posted.

I would guarantee I would be pressing charges against this a-hole not too mention I would have asked the sheriff to come with me to his farm/house to confront the guy.

Running over dekes and gear is one thing but like you said, running over that blind could have been very bad. A good Lawyer (can't believe I said that) would make a good case out of this guy..but you'd better have the $$ to pay for it.

Guys like this are the armpit of todays society, sure you guys may have been in the wrong, (honest mistake) but there would have been much better ways of handling this. Sounds like this guys knuckles still drag on the ground.


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## Plainsman

> I would be curious to see what the guy did wrong. Technically he was driving on his own property correct?


He is still guilty of destroying private property. Because the hunt was on posted land it looks like a standoff. It's the principle of the thing though, and I think I would sue and take the fine for tresspass.

GKBassplayer, are you certain the guy didn't post the land after you left. Often you can't find a landowner, but I don't go in a field without pictures of every corner. If land is posted I like written permission. I know landowners who have tried to set guys up they don't like. Things like this happen more often each year.


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## ruger1

Nail his *** to the wall. If they hit you with a tressapssing fine, pay it and smile. The best money you ever spent. I would have had a hard time not shooting the guys truck.

Maybe you can shoot for assult with a deadly weapon. He didn't know the blind was empty.


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## Almomatic

Good luck getting your decoys replaced. I had a similar situation on unposted land a couple years back and the landowner used my FFDs as bowling pins. I pressed charges against him and had to go to court. In the end a jury of neighboring landowners found him not guilty. The only thing good to come of it is that I wasted his time as he was in court three times before the trial and had to pay for a lawyer to defend him. Wish I woulda been with you, he wouldn't have a drivable truck anymore, I don't care if its his land or not, that is no way to act, I'm sure I'll get flamed for that, you can for this too, if anyone pulls that crap on me again I will defend myself and property with whatever means I see fit... Sorry to hear about your hunt, I know that feeling you had in gut when you were watching it happen.


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## oldfireguy

While we appreciate the opportunity to hunt lands that are not "posted", my group carries a plat book and makes attempt to contact the owner regardless.
Amongst us oldtimers, it's considered an expected courtesy. Added benefit....we've actually been thanked by the landowner and given tips on other parcels we might not have known about.

Good people make bad decisions, whether it is "accidentally" hunting posted lands, or getting overly irate on trespassers.

Good luck in the future.


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## northdakotakid

Hey, I am a land owner and by that there are certain rights that come with that... but recklessly endangering someone's life?

There was no defense of property because these are migratory birds... what if someone would have been in the blind? There was no prior confrontation before he endangered the lives ... flat *** backwards.

We have people trespass on our land and it ****** me off to no extent but never have I ever thought of endangering their lives by driving a pick-up through their decoys. I have driven out to them and asked them to leave and took their names and vehicle plate numbers to turn them in... but that is just wrong.

South Dakota is introducing some legislation to help landowners potentially recoup some potential get-back for people who trespasss... but I am not sure if this will decrease the # of incidences, increase the reporting of incidences or be abused ... http://www.kxmb.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=278454


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## Chuck Smith

I would take the tresspass and go after him.

What if he does this again and run over someone in the blind!

Teach him a lesson for being reckless.

My question are you sure he is the landowner? Did you get a plate number and what not to also give the sheriff?


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## Fallguy

Crazy situation. I am not sure what I would do. Glad to hear noone was injured!


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

First off? How do you know it was the land owner? I have had my butt chewed up and down by someone who claims to be the landowner, and they weren't. One time the landowner was laying in a blind with us when the guy came out there. Talk about a guy coming unglued when the guy claimed to "own" all the land.

I would charge him. If you spend money on a good lawyer you will get reckless endangerment and maybe attempted man, to stick. How did the CO say it was legally posted if there wasn't signs at the field changes, and so on? I would say the most you are going to get charged with is him Civily going after you.

I think this is going to come down to where you were at. If you end up in a small town court that everyone knows him, and so on you may not stand a chance.

Go get a good lawyer and go after him.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Also, it doesn't matter if it is his prop or not they are still liable for what happens on it. You stub your toe you could sue. Kinda sad, but the truth.


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## jd mn/nd

I have read the responses to this post I have a few questions, Are you sure that the fella that did the damage WAS the land owner? If so how do you know? IF your not sure, could it have been someone else? Could it have been one of his buddies? or a other hunter that was ****** because you beat him to the punch?

First off I would press the charges of endangering human lives, second I would go to civil court and sue him for the damages done to your property, thirdly I would also have him arrested by the local CO for harassing a hunter while in the course of hunting, it is a federal law so he would prosecuted in a federal court, not locally. It is illegal to harass any hunter while they are hunting no matter what.

This type of behaviour needs to be curtailed and if it is not stopped now it will continue to get worse and become more frequint. What he should have done was driven out stopped the truck and got out and told you who he was and that you were on posted land and that you needed to leave. But he went over the line, now you need to do something about this. What happens the next time when he does this to someone else and kills them how are you going to feel knowing that you had an opportunity to stop this and teach him lesson? What would have happened if he had flipped his truck in the field and rolled it over on one of you? What if a rock off of one of the tires would have hit one of you causing injury or death? There are a bunch of what if's that need to be thought about here, the good news that all of you are OK. This is one of those times in a person's life that you would call a determining moment, what you do to this person will determine what kind of a person you are, will do the right thing and decide to go after the fella for everything he did or will you just roll over and play dead and pretend like it never happened and let the guy go on acting like an A-hole. You as a person need to decide if you have principals, eithics, morals, fortitude, character, and a consciouness that will allow to walk away. This tell your freinds and family if your a man that has those things in his build or not. Only you know what needs to be done. I know what I would do. But I can't tell you what to do. Good luck if you go forward and go after this person, for what they did to you, if not I guess it really is not that important to you.


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## USAlx50

hunt4P&Y said:


> Also, it doesn't matter if it is his prop or not they are still liable for what happens on it. You stub your toe you could sue. Kinda sad, but the truth.


You shut your mouth when you're talking to him.


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## jd mn/nd

Hey USA 50 cal why are you telling Hunt for P&Y to shut his mouth? what did he say that you feel is so wrong?


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## verg

You really need to find out FOR SURE who it was. Like others mentioned, that is hunter harrassment which is illegal. He also damaged your personal property to a tone of up to $1000. He has to be held accountable...as others said too-what if someone was in the blind??
If you are able to find out who it was, I think I might send him a letter expressing your rights as a hunter and what laws he has broken. Inform him that yes your tresspassed accidently and you might face a $500 fine but..if you take him to court he will lose much more than that. 
Dumb as it may sound you could tell him to pay up for damages or agree to pay at least half or things will get much worse after you talk to your lawyer.
I know it sounds kind of odd but I did something like this with another situation and it worked.
Just another angle


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## Eric Hustad

With regards to what DakotaKid said I am in total agreement. If you own land and have people tresspass turn them in if you want but to do what this guy did is scary. You are all lucky nobody was hurt and this guy needs to get charged and have it on his record for the future as he sounds nuts. You guys made an honest mistake and at your age a tresspassing fine hurts so I'm sure you'll be more careful in the future. Interesting to see if it really was the owner.....


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## duckmander

I have been told by a CO if there is one posted sign anywhere on a section of land. that whole section is posted. and they teach in those hunter saftey courses. to get landowner permission prior to tresspassing. even if the land is not posted.

that being said. he would have never left the field. I would have taken out all tires and radiator if need be. but he would have been there when the sherrif arrived.

granted you were in the wrong (admittedly). he has no right to distroy property and or possible life just because he is the said land owner.

I say pay your fine. and all of you hire a so called GOOD LAWYER.
GOOD LUCK


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## cupped-in123

Benelliman said:


> I would be curious to see what the guy did wrong. Technically he was driving on his own property correct?
> 
> I'm not supporting his actions in any way, but am curious if under the strict definition of the law he broke any? Unless they were going to make some kind of bodily endangerment claim?
> 
> Did this make the newspapers? It would seem to me to be quite an event that somebody would get ahold of the press.


LET ME ADD SOME STUFF. We talked to the sheriff about it, and he had no right to do that.... the sheriff said that if we wanted, we could easily get him for felony destruction of property.... that means he cant own a gun for 10 years!!! and he hunts, so if we wanted, we could really screw him over. So when Benelliman says technically he's just driving on his own land, he is WRONG..... think about things before you say them. ALSO.... some more info on the field and the guy...... the sheriff has had problems with him before, he tilled up a minimum maintainance road and farmed over it, that THAT IS WHY THE POSTED SIGNS WERE IN THE WRONG SPOTS, and we (and im sure 95% of people) assumed that the signs were for the bean field. he sverved toward me right away to try to scare me..... no reasoning with those types of people. Jim Trautman was his name....... ex-mayor of Jamestown! i bet the jamestown newspaper would like to hear about this!


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## blhunter3

For the field to be properly posted we were told you need a posted sign ever 1/4 and one on every approach. That guy had no right to do that. I would for sure take him to court and then try to get a change of venue.


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## buckseye

There is a difference with posted signs, if it says no trespassing that is civil law if it says no hunting that is G&F regulations. 
Sounds like the guy really let out a lot of stored up anger on you, you were not the first to pizz him off I bet.

It's his land you were on, sure he could have been more civil but it's still his land.


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## Plainsman

buckseye said:


> There is a difference with posted signs, if it says no trespassing that is civil law if it says no hunting that is G&F regulations.
> Sounds like the guy really let out a lot of stored up anger on you, you were not the first to pizz him off I bet.
> 
> It's his land you were on, sure he could have been more civil but it's still his land.


It doesn't make any difference under the described situation he is still criminally liable. The "my land" bit will mean nothing in court.

Also, that 1/4 mile between posted signs is old and has been changed to 1/2 mile between posted signs. That is for hunting. Trespass is different.


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## dblkluk

> It's his land you were on, sure he could have been more civil but it's still his land.


No excuse..

I'm a landowner and I have had people tresspassing (most on purpose) and no way would I ever consider actions like his.

A stern word will get your point across. 
If he thought you were that far in the wrong and he was in the right why didn't he call you guys in, then prosecute???
Doesn't add up. 
He sounds like a real dandy..

I like how this "tough guy" never even stopped to get out of his pickup..
:eyeroll:


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## blhunter3

Thank god its been change. I had alot of work ahead of me this weekend but now, not as much


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## R y a n

Ohh boy...


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## Plainsman

You need to cover your behind when your out there. Today there is such a get even attitude that you can find yourself in trouble just because your from Fargo, or because you belong to the Wildlife Federation, or because you posted on here supporting something.

I know of one situation where a landowner gave a person permission to hunt, and called the game warden to report him before he was off the front step. When the landowner and the game warden confronted the fellow he had taped the guy giving him permission. If that had gone to court the landowner would have faced prison time for a felony (lying to a law enforcement officer). The game warden didn't want to rile up local landowners, but he would have no problem writing the hunter up. Both the warden and the landowner had some tense pucker moments when the hunter used his cell phone to call the attorney generals office.

Don't trust anyone you don't know real well, and even then be cautious. There doesn't appear to be much value to integrity these days.


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## Bobm

man no one would do that in Georgia....


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Plainsman! I really liked your advise as to taking pics of the field before you go out. Kinda crazy pretty soon we will have to start carrying tape recorders when we go ask permission!


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## Plainsman

hunt4P&Y said:


> Plainsman! I really liked your advise as to taking pics of the field before you go out. Kinda crazy pretty soon we will have to start carrying tape recorders when we go ask permission!


I have to be careful where I hunt because I have turned in people for driving off the trail, chasing deer, and shooting out of their pickup at 40 mph. Huntin1 and I had one of those guys bounce a 30-06 round under our vehicle from 440 yards a couple years ago. It was before sunrise, and I was looking at the vehicle trying to figure out who it was. The muzzle flash looked like a big red rose in the dark. I called the guy and chewed his behind. We were sitting on the edge of a valley and he said their was a coyote about three feet lower than our bumper, but we had nothing to worry about because he knew within two inches where his 06 hits at 440 yards. I have heard the guy teaches hunter safety.


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## buckseye

> I'm a landowner and I have had people trespassing (most on purpose) and no way would I ever consider actions like his


.

dblkluk... I wouldn't do that either but you and I are only two people, there are millions more out there that will do what they want also.

Plainsman.. you know as well as I do these things are interpreted differently by each warden, judge, lawyer and land owner. ND laws are all litigatable in the good ol boy system we have in place and you know that.

So lets litigate this :beer: :lol:


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## Bgunit68

LOL, I was my climber last year about 20 yards from a trail. A guy came down posting the trail. I climbed down to apologize because I wasn't aware of who owned the property. The guy came back up the hill. I explained who I was and that I would be moving on. He said he respected what I had done by coming to him and not just running off. He game me permission to hunt his land. Most of the land around here is either not posted or posted improperly. But I still try to find out who owns the land before I hunt it. We were on property a few years back and crossed over to another person's property. We had no Idea we had crossed over. A guy came up to us told us who he was and asked us who we were. He told us we were on private property and asked us if we would please leave. There was no problem we just left. People around here are pretty cool about land. There is only one piece of land around here that is properly posted and the woman will prosecute if she catches you. She allows only 6 people to hunt her 1000 acres. We are two of those 6. But I can see some of the land owner's problems. This one farmer lets pretty much every one hunt his property. People leave trash all over. The shoot small deer and leave them. It really is disgusting what some people do. But this land owner (above) acted completely inappropriately. I would go after him.


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## Hahnker

A few pics from the field


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## swift

I'd go the civil court route. IF you are found guilty of trespass you will lose your hunting and fishing license for one year automatically. Look into it.


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## Plainsman

hunt4P&Y said:


> Plainsman! I really liked your advise as to taking pics of the field before you go out. Kinda crazy pretty soon we will have to start carrying tape recorders when we go ask permission!


The nice thing about digital cameras is there is no film cost, there is no developing cost, and when you put your computer cursor on the file it identifies the camera, the day you took the picture, and the time of day you took the picture. Posting after you leave will not get you prosecuted.

This isn't an anti landowner rant. There are good landowners and bad landowners just like good hunters and bad hunters. If you can prove things it simply leaves you in better shape than if you can not. If you can't prove something there is no use wasting your time trying to get any legal satisfaction. Just make sure you don't take it out on the next landowner you encounter, he may be the nicest guy you ever want to meet.

Oh, I should tell you about this one. Huntin1 and I were sitting in my brother-in-laws pasture a couple years ago. Two vehicles came into the area and drove at least 600 yards off the trail, down a hill through chokecherry and brush to near the bottom of a valley and sat there. We told the warden who caught up with them. The four of them said it wasn't true. Two days later I remembered I had taken pictures, and huntin1 passed them along to the warden. Kind of put egg on their face.

Purchase a cheap digital, it's the best insurance your integrity can have in today's world.


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## Fallguy

Plainsman there is another good reason to carry a digital camera with you when you hunt. Not only to take pictures for the memory book but also to cover your butt and protect yourself. I think I will follow some of your teachings now after reading this.


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## Plainsman

blhunter3 said:


> Thank god its been change. I had alot of work ahead of me this weekend but now, not as much


Check the regulations. Some circumstances change things. For example a pasture needs to be posted only at the gate.


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## R y a n

Plainsman said:


> The nice thing about digital cameras is there is no film cost, there is no developing cost, and when you put your computer cursor on the file it identifies the camera, the day you took the picture, and the time of day you took the picture. Posting after you leave will not get you prosecuted.
> 
> Oh, I should tell you about this one. Huntin1 and I were sitting in my brother-in-laws pasture a couple years ago. Two vehicles came into the area and drove at least 600 yards off the trail, down a hill through chokecherry and brush to near the bottom of a valley and sat there. We told the warden who caught up with them. The four of them said it wasn't true. Two days later I remembered I had taken pictures, and huntin1 passed them along to the warden. Kind of put egg on their face.
> 
> Purchase a cheap digital, it's the best insurance your integrity can have in today's world.


All the wardens have them laying on their front seat. It is their #1 weapon right now... The warden out of Bismarck has one with a 500mm telescopic lens attached for just those very types of photos.

If you take pictures, a word of advice. More photos are better #1... take a variety of photos as quickly together as possible, both wide angle and tight photos. Try to make sure you take pictures of the property they are on, take a picture of the posted sign, or take a photo of the "trail" they are on. The more conclusive the proof, the less likely the warden will have to build a tighter case, thereby freeing them up to spend more time in the field catching the next idiot.


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## blhunter3

Plainsman said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank god its been change. I had alot of work ahead of me this weekend but now, not as much
> 
> 
> 
> Check the regulations. Some circumstances change things. For example a pasture needs to be posted only at the gate.
Click to expand...

WE have the pasture already posted, I am just posting grandpa's and the guy who took over his farm.


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## blhunter3

R y a n said:


> Ohh boy...


Its alot of work making new posted signs, since ours got stolen over labor day weekend. As much as I hate posted fields, we are going to be posting alot of land now since people have been hunting out permission on it. I guess now I will be taking pictures of me putting in the signs and where to protect ourselves.

You guys should not go to the newspaper until you decide on what your going to do.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Do you have a pic of the finisher? IN the spread?


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## GKBassplayer




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## blhunter3

How many more pictures do you have?


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## GKBassplayer

Hahnker should have a bunch more


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## blhunter3

You should have him put some more up. And you guys need to go to the policve asap. So you can have all of the facts when you give your statements to the police


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## dakotashooter2

While you were in the wrong, trespassing DOES NOT give him the right to destroy your property. As a matter of fact even though you and your equipment are on his land (even illegally) there is a reasonable expectation for him to ensure your safety and reasonable care of your property till you and it are removed. An example might be an eviction from an appartment. While you may be legally required to leave if you don't remove your furniture the landlord has to provide for it's care for a reasonable period of time before disposing of it. I'm not sure a landowner has much more rights in a tresspassing situation than to confront you and ask you to leave. I'm not sure he has a right to ANY type of physical confrontation unless there is a physical threat to his person. I believe there is something in the basic premise of our law about being judge, jury and executioner. That is why law enforcement is called to deal with such situations. I'm guessing he has not been satisfied with the way law enforcement has handled it in the past which is what lead to this.

The problem is that if he gets away with it, next time there may be someone in one of those blinds. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Asking permission is the best route but not always possible. When you come asking to hunt an unposted field for the next morning the farmer may be out for the evening, working at another location or otherwise unavailable. Even with a plat map it's not easy to find who has control. A quarter may be divided up into 20 ,40 or 80 acre parcels sometimes oddly shaped, all under different ownership with an intermixing of posted or unposted land. Occasionally one of the owners or even someone else may lease, farm and post all the land. Sometimes posting is done in a manner to to appear to include that which is not supposed to be posted. A tenant on my relatives land has signs with the estates administrators name/signature posted on the land he rents from the relative, land he rents from someone else and land that is not rented to him at all (CRP). Sometimes signs just get knocked down. Rarely is the inner line ever posted or at the appropriate intervals.I know from experience. In ND the interval was 440 yards at one time now it is 880 yards. It's not hard to see that 440 yards makes for a lot less confusion though more work and cost for the landowner. I'd personally like to see it go back. Personally if I owned land and wanted to post it I'd probably go overboard to reduce confusion. Even under the best case scenario at times it's a crap shoot.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

WOW is the only word that keeps coming to mind. Looks like he was doing some 4 wheel drifting out in the wheat stubble...

Crazy, simply crazy!


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## HUNTNFISHND

What the heck is wrong with people now days! :eyeroll:

Why couldnt the guy have the decency to just drive out to you and tell you to leave, no he had to go out of his way to be a complete prick and could have seriously injured himself or someone else over what, hunting a frickin stubble field, killing a few birds on his land. :eyeroll:

I would defenitely press charges against this clown! :******:


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## dblkluk

I like how he did more damage to his own land than any responsible hunter ever would..
If we get some serious snow this winter, it would be interesting to see those ruts wash out to about 3 feet deep.

Karma can be a biatch.. :wink:


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## buckseye

Absolutely put charges against him and see how many neighbors of his quit letting hunters on. There has to be more leading up to this, people don't just wake up one day and do what has been done here. ND will make you crazy for sure!!

Probably a wake up call for the Jamestown area is my guess.


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## omegax

What a dink! If I had that happen to me, I'd put myself through some serious pain to make sure I could hang a felony on that guy. He deserves it.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

buckseye said:


> Absolutely put charges against him and see how many neighbors of his quit letting hunters on. There has to be more leading up to this, people don't just wake up one day and do what has been done here. ND will make you crazy for sure!!
> 
> Probably a wake up call for the Jamestown area is my guess.


I really don't think this will cause anything as far as more posting. If it does anything maybe they will do a better job of posting it legally..? if there is such a thing. The state is kinda vauge on there definition of posted.... Even if it isn't posted you can be charged with truspassing.


----------



## mshutt

Could you of legally shot at him as self defense? I think I would of shot at him regardless after making a round or 2 through my decoys...In fact If I or any of my buddies was anywhere near getting ran over I wouldnt of even thought twice at shooting at this Ahole...

You would be stupid to not press charges against this idiot.


----------



## cupped-in123

swift said:


> I'd go the civil court route. IF you are found guilty of trespass you will lose your hunting and fishing license for one year automatically. Look into it.


WOW.... good to know.... i dont want to get my license taken away for a year! i guess now for sure we are gonna be forced to let it slide, and let the jerk get away with it......


----------



## Plainsman

> Absolutely put charges against him and see how many neighbors of his quit letting hunters on.


I don't think the average landowner has sunk so low that he would support felony behavior. Sure there are some bad ones, but do they stick together even if one is a criminal? I sure hope not.


----------



## USSapper

cupped-in123 said:


> swift said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd go the civil court route. IF you are found guilty of trespass you will lose your hunting and fishing license for one year automatically. Look into it.
> 
> 
> 
> WOW.... good to know.... i dont want to get my license taken away for a year! i guess now for sure we are gonna be forced to let it slide, and let the jerk get away with it......
Click to expand...

You wont loose your license for a year......Stand up against this guy. I have ties to this guy, and I wouldnt hesitate had this happened to me. Have some guts man!! This sickens me that you wouldnt do anything because it, in turn, could get you in trouble :eyeroll:


----------



## cupped-in123

USSapper said:


> cupped-in123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> swift said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd go the civil court route. IF you are found guilty of trespass you will lose your hunting and fishing license for one year automatically. Look into it.
> 
> 
> 
> WOW.... good to know.... i dont want to get my license taken away for a year! i guess now for sure we are gonna be forced to let it slide, and let the jerk get away with it......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You wont loose your license for a year......Stand up against this guy. I have ties to this guy, and I wouldnt hesitate had this happened to me. Have some guts man!! This sickens me that you wouldnt do anything because it, in turn, could get you in trouble :eyeroll:
Click to expand...

are you SURE????????????


----------



## USSapper

Im not the one you need to be talking too


----------



## cupped-in123

its not that we are afraid of getting in trouble...... a 'B misdemeanor' aint nothing, its just driving to jamestown 3-4 times for court for sure(gas aint cheap), court fees, the trespass fines(if we are even found guilty), i mean i dont know how much we would even gain after all that.......


----------



## dogdonthunt

lot of opinions on here wow this thread really took off since this morning.... best thing you can do is to check with a "real" attorney and get some "real" legal advise as to your options... keep in mind that alot of people on here have great advise and alot is true but it is still the internet and you need to get the facts but I enjoy reading all the post on here.... I agree with the majority andI would seek legal action... and as the the guy that said not to go to the paper or news.... once its filed I think it would be a headline story anyway and reporters do alot of digging to find out other things too... so why not.... :2cents:


----------



## USAlx50

If you are worried about legal/gas expenses, wouldn't that be covered by him if he loses in a civil suit?


----------



## buckseye

> The state is kinda vauge on there definition of posted.... Even if it isn't posted you can be charged with trespassing


.

Like I wrote before there are two separate laws regarding this. One civil and the other a G&F regulation. Civil will be criminal trespass, G&F will be no license and unsupervised probation for one year if you ask for a deferred sentence.

It's a big fat crappy deal for you guys. There can be no good answer, two wrongs never make a right. :-?


----------



## 6162rk

i think you need to make the sacrifice if that's what it takes. think about the sacrifices others have made so we all can hunt. stand up for your rights and others. lead the way. and the best to you in your choice.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

I hope you took hundreds of pics! Loosing the licence would be top sentence go for it.


----------



## barebackjack

I cant believe a few of you are defending this a**!!! Posted or not, he had NOT right doing what he did. Running over the blind alone has got to qualify for attempted manslaughter.

I would pursue this as far as I could, tack his hide to the wall. Im all for landowner rights and such, but he went wayyyy to far. Im sick of improperly posted land, no signature, no date, one poster on one corner of a section, etc etc. But boy, you better not go out there, cuz theyll stick you evertime with "the intent to post was there". But when a person makes an honest mistake (at least I hope honest) this happens. And well, even if you purposefuly trespassed, he STILL crossed the line. We chase guys off our stuff every year, it ****** me off, but I would NEVER do something like this.

You need a lawyer. Dont pay any fines unless a lawyer tells you to. Paying the fine is an admission of guilt.


----------



## USSapper

How many passes did he make throught the spread? How long did he stick around?


----------



## Leo Porcello

dblkluk said:


> I like how he did more damage to his own land than any responsible hunter ever would..
> If we get some serious snow this winter, it would be interesting to see those ruts wash out to about 3 feet deep.
> 
> Karma can be a biatch.. :wink:


Funny that is what I was thinking.

Crappy way to start a season!


----------



## cupped-in123

about 3 figure 8's


----------



## huntinND

That is a tough decision, this guy is obviously a psycho but a trespassing fine doesn't look good on your record if they didn't prosecute this guy. It wouldn't hurt to look into your options though. The officer obviously thought you had a good chance so you never know. 
I either get permission or don't hunt an area if there are any posted signs. I also ask permission as much as I can on unposted stuff. But it kind of irritates me that even if an area isn't legaly posted you are still tresspassing. Why is the every 1/2 mile rule there then if landowners don't have to abide by it? It makes you feel uneasy every time you hunt an area because your afraid you might have missed something. I'm sure anyone that hunts a lot knows sometimes it is tuff to get ahold of a landowner before the morning hunt after scouting all evening. I am very appreciative to be able to hunt a lot of land and enjoy talking with landowners, but it would make things easier if spots were posted correctly.


----------



## TANATA

Send the story and pictures into the paper asap. Then take him to civil court and get what you deserve. I'm impressed you guys didn't start shooting I'm pretty sure a lot of guys would have in that case, especially when blinds get ran over.

Doesnt matter if you were hunting in his front yard liberal laws now days don't give landowners any weight in endangering lives like that. You probably wouldn't even need a lawyer to win this one, especially if you get the story pasted all over the papers, where futures jurors are going to read about it and go what an idiot. :eyeroll:


----------



## Almomatic

Turn the case over to the state's attorney, you won't have to pay fees and they'll reimburse you for your gas driving out to Jamestown to go to court. He's obviously not pressing trespass charges or you would have got slap with it that day. Don't let this slide, you'll regret if you do.


----------



## Hahnker

duckmander said:


> that being said. he would have never left the field. I would have taken out all tires and radiator if need be. but he would have been there when the sherrif arrived.


I thought about it. It was really hard to watch him drive over the majority of my 8 dz bigfoots and everything else. It went through my head many times if i should shoot a tire out and stop this. But most likely I would have been in a lot more trouble then and I determined it wasn't worth it. Another reason is because in the middle of this rampage the man stopped and between the swearing managed to say "You guys are lucky I don't shoot all of you." I had no idea if he had a gun in that truck with him and didn't want to find out. I was just hoping he was going to leave and didn't want to give him a reason to get out of his truck or possibly shoot back.


----------



## taddy1340

Hahnker said:


> I thought about it. It was really hard to watch him drive over the majority of my 8 dz bigfoots and everything else. It went through my head many times if i should shoot a tire out and stop this. But most likely I would have been in a lot more trouble then and I determined it wasn't worth it. Another reason is because in the middle of this rampage the man stopped and between the swearing managed to say "You guys are lucky I don't shoot all of you." I had no idea if he had a gun in that truck with him and didn't want to find out. I was just hoping he was going to leave and didn't want to give him a reason to get out of his truck or possibly shoot back.


Wise decision...escalating the situation would not have been the right thing to do IMO. This guy obviously has MAJOR issues...his ars needs to answer for being a fool. I'm a ND landowner and I know people trespass when I'm not there. If I were to catch someone, I'd explain why they need to leave. Regardless of how many times this guy may have been "burned" his reaction is completely disporportionate to the crime. It's not like you were in his house screwing his wife. As a landowner, I understand his frustration, but he endangered lives and damaged property. Either he has mental issues, was drunk/on drugs or a combination thereof.

I can't even imagine what was going through your guys' minds.

Take his ars to court...don't be surprised if this ends up in the media. A lot of people read this forum and might drop the story to a newspaper/TV channel.

Glad to hear everyone is alright. Don't let it deter you from hunting though...


----------



## R y a n

So can you describe how "posted" this field was or wasn't?

If it was the landowner you mentioned earlier, he has all of his stuff posted up extremely tight. He doesn't make mistakes with his stuff. His signs if I remember correctly are white or orange permanent metallic signs that cost about $10 each and they are everywhere with his name on them.

Isn't that true normally for him? Are you telling us that there was 1 field he absentmindedly forgot to post?

I'm even more amazed that he would do that, as I know that area like the back of my hand, and I know there is simply nowhere near his stuff to hunt that isn't posted solid. So yes, I'm curious which field you were in specifically, as it would make your story much more understandable.

You guys are absolutely certain that it wasn't posted? And you saw no signs put up with his name on it?

Something just doesn't add up to me.. Sorry for being a skeptic.

To be clear.. I think that is a crazy situation no matter what the circumstances, and I'm not condoning that behavior in any shape or form. If it all really went down like that, something needs to be done. It will only happen again and escalate further. None of us want to see a terrible tragedy because of a failure to have him accountable for this action now.

I'm not going to speculate further. If the story has validity, Stutsman County Sheriff will take up the issue and remand over as appropriate. It appears that Game and Fish also knows nothing of this issue. There are so many unknown details that everyone is speculating on.

Tell us where this went a few weeks from now. SCSO will not just sweep this under the rug if it has serious merit.

Good luck to you

Ryan


----------



## GKBassplayer

We drove around for over an hour, there were signs but they were circling a bean field and thats what we assumed was posted, there was a section line we drove down and it just made it look more and more that the beans were posted. we could not check the other side because it was backed up to a WMA and another landowner whos land was OBVIOUSLY posted. We ultimately decided that it was ok but I guess not. The sheriff agreed that it was questionable and didn't blame us for our mistake. He really wanted to go after the guy but he needed us to press charges, he gave us until the end of the week so by the looks of it we may seek some advice and decide something real soon


----------



## honkerslayr

In my opinion you guys held your cool,. it sure must have been hard...I can't even imagine what it was like seeing him mow over all your gear. But seriously you should go after him. Even with the gas being not cheap and all the expenses, you could do it. It sure wouldn't be easy but in the end it definetely would. Even if you get trespass at the max, he would get what he deserves. And endangering your guys life like that there should be no question about going after him. Do it, a person could almost be certain you could nab him for doing this ridiculolus act. Good Luck hope you go after him. I know there'd be no question about it if he did it to me.


----------



## cupped-in123

R y a n said:


> So can you describe how "posted" this field was or wasn't?
> 
> I'm not going to speculate further. If the story has validity, Stutsman County Sheriff will take up the issue and remand over as appropriate. It appears that Game and Fish also knows nothing of this issue. There are so many unknown details that everyone is speculating on.


He had illegally tilled up a minimum maintinence road that ran on the side of this field and planted over it a while ago and moved the posted signs over to the edge, but then the county came in and prosecuted him for doing that to the road, and reestablished the road...... noone moved the posted signs back to the correct side of the minimum maintinence road..... thats basically why we didnt think it was posted (i hope that makes sense and clears things up a little.) yes you're right, they're metal posted signs and he has everything posted pretty tight..... but we didnt even know this field was his because of 2 reasons: first, like i mentioned, the signs were on the wong side of this min main road, and second, the only signs that we could possibly see circled be bean field next to it.... trust me, it was a legit mistake on our part, you'de believe it if you saw it.... we probably hunt as much as anyone, if we were trespassers we would have been caught already......

also...... the sheriff cant do enything without us (or him) saying we want to press charges....... as for the game and fish, the sheriff we were with talked to the game warden in the area, he knows about it, and also said he would like to let us off the hook if at all possible...... they both know the situation, and both know it's bushleague.

i hope this explains the things you're speculating on..... you can maybe stop now?


----------



## nickle ditch

What stuck out for me was that he almost killed the dog. That to me whould have ****** me off the most. I can replace the gear......but my dog. :******:


----------



## mmartin

Im sorry he had know right doing that whether you knew it or not. WHAT IF THERE WAS SOMEBODIES KID SLEEPING AN THAT BIND WHEN HE CAME TEARING THRU, if you had it closed up he would have never known there was anybody in there, let along almost running over a dog. I don't care if hes the President of the USA, that is about one of the stupidest things I have ever heard a grown adult do. Sorry R Y A N, you need to quite making excuses for him and he needs to be nailed to the wall. If it was me hunting, my kid would have probably been hunting with me and sleeping in that blind, then what?


----------



## HUNTNFISHND

I don't care if the land was posted up solid. It still doesn't give this guy the right to tear around and endanger lives! :******:

He should have been the one to call the sheriff and let him handle the tresspassing issue, but instead he tears up his field, destroys somebody's property and could have hurt or even killed someone. I hate to say it, but if I would have been there I probably would have lost it and been sitting in jail right now! This guy makes me uke:


----------



## 4CurlRedleg

> I hate to say it, but if I would have been there I probably would have lost it and been sitting in jail right now! This guy makes me


I don't hate to say it, I would have taken this as a direct attack on my person and I would have defended it fully. This is exactly the same behavior that leads to folks shooting into the decoys in anger.

Otherwise it is a no-brainer, see it thru in court and make him pay dearly.


----------



## g/o

So much has been made that the bean was posted they thought. First of all was it harvested? If not then that would not need posting anyway. If it was fenced it only needs to be posted at the gates. This is still no excuse for this guy to act as he did. I have lost my cool and chewed some butts a time or two, but never like this.


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## MSG Rude

I think this thread has run its course.

If you don't have something different to say then let it die down.


----------



## USSapper

MSG Rude said:


> I think this thread has run its course.
> 
> If you don't have something different to say then let it die down.


How so? No one is getting hostile whatsoever, so there is no reasson to let this die down? There are alot of unanswered questions here and this subject is a pretty big deal.


----------



## dblkluk

MSG Rude said:


> I think this thread has run its course.
> 
> If you don't have something different to say then let it die down.


GKBassplayer asked for everyones advice on this matter.

No forum rules have been broken. Carry on.


----------



## shootnmiss09

So sorry to hear about this. Even if you may have been tresspassing by accident, there is no way that farmer should do taht. good luck.


----------



## MSG Rude

dblkluk said:


> MSG Rude said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this thread has run its course.
> 
> If you don't have something different to say then let it die down.
> 
> 
> 
> GKBassplayer asked for everyones advice on this matter.
> 
> No forum rules have been broken. Carry on.
Click to expand...

I didn't say any had been.


----------



## dogdonthunt

> Another reason is because in the middle of this rampage the man stopped and between the swearing managed to say "You guys are lucky I don't shoot all of you."


isnt that considered a threat on your life.... you did the right thing as far as not shooting at him but you have witnesses in this situation and his actions seem to reflect the possibilities that this couldve happened.... now do the right thing and take legal action.... it sounds like from what you are saying that the sheriff and G&F want you to... you say he was a former mayor and that might have something to do with the sherriff wanting a lil piece of this guy... good luck...


----------



## jd mn/nd

IF this guy verbally threatened to KILL you, he justed added more charges to his record, as that is now attemped murder, not just manslaughter, once someone makes a verbal threat it shows that they have thought out their actions and that changes the whole deal!!! This guy could be at the very least looking at some serious jail time, like many years. Just because of the verbal threat to kill you and then backing it up with his actions of running over your equipment.

Like one fella said if my son would have been with me I would have been shooting as my son is not old enough to defend himself, that is my job as his father to keep him safe.

I have to say if everything that has been told to us is fairly acurate, I would take my lumps on the tresspass deal, prosecute this guy, and then file an appeal on the tresspass charges once he is in jail. You would most likely win that appeal, and your record would be clear. If you don't you just set a precidence for all landowners to act in what fashion they deem neccasary to get people off thier land, and that could leed to far worse situations in the future. You need to make a stand on this issue on behalf of all sportsmen and woman everywhere!!! This is no different than PETA trying to abolish all hunting, and you would not let that happen would you?

GO GET THIS GUY!!!!


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com

4CurlRedleg said:


> I don't hate to say it, I would have taken this as a direct attack on my person and I would have defended it fully. This is exactly the same behavior that leads to folks shooting into the decoys in anger.


You're a pretty big kid....I'm not sure any farmer would want that! 8)


----------



## deacon

Sure glad it wasn't me. No right answers. but completely unacceptable behavior by the truck driver.


----------



## Matt Jones

You weren't trespassing. You were *hunting on posted land*. Which is soemthing else entirely. If you are found guilty of it (which you will be if the sheriff said it was legally posted) you automatically lose your hunting license for a year. By automatically I mean the judge has no say in it, it is an automatic sentence.

If I were you, and I wanted to hunt this next year...I'd cut my losses and move on.

I know guys who had this happen to them and they lost in court. You're in a small county where the farmer has a lot of pull. I doubt a jury of "his" peers will convict him on anything. That's how it works. Sad but true.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'm just trying to be helpful. If you want to keep your hunting privileges let this go.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg

Chris Hustad said:


> You're a pretty big kid....I'm not sure any farmer would want that! 8)


They call me the "Negotiator". dd:

I've been in my share of scrapes with over-zealot landowners and they learn to like me or at least show respect. If they don't want you in there, post it or deny access. Rule # 1 make sure your not bending the law, makes for a better understanding and ignorance is a gift that wears out quickly.
But this total melt down can only wind up bad for all concerned whether it was cowboy justice or will be a long costly bout in the court. Myself I prefer the aforementioned because it is quicker and typically alot less costly, just don't be the first to blink. :bop:


----------



## 4CurlRedleg

Matt Jones said:


> I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'm just trying to be helpful. If you want to keep your hunting privileges let this go.


Yeah, and next time someone ends on the wrong side of his tires or worse yet on the business end of his hi-power.

This peckerwood needs to pay for his crime, complacency does not apply here.


----------



## GKBassplayer

Matt Jones said:


> You weren't trespassing. You were *hunting on posted land*. Which is soemthing else entirely. If you are found guilty of it (which you will be if the sheriff said it was legally posted) you automatically lose your hunting license for a year. By automatically I mean the judge has no say in it, it is an automatic sentence.


So could we be charged with both? If that guy gets a felony, he looses all hunting rights for 10 years and worse..


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

Dude about the worst you are looking at is a fine in Civil, maybe Crim court for trustpassing.. Just set your judgment higher to pay for that. I hope you have been working on this. There is no way you will loose your hunting rights. That is for the most SERIOUS offenses.


----------



## goose_caller

Ya know, I am going to side with the landowner here. Personally I think ND's trespass law is dated and is due for change. I have never set a spread in a field in ND without first getting permission from the landowner. This is NOT an honest mistake, there WAS signs posting some of the land and that right there should have raised doubt on if it was all posted and what the true intentions of the land owner was....obviously if the land owner had taken the time to post some of his property, he probably intended it all to be off limits. I think it is just lazy not to knock on some doors period, sure you have a law stating you can go onto unposted land....but is that the right thing to do? Is it not fair to a landowner post or not to at least make an attempt to get permission to go on THEIR private property?
My rule of thumb for posting is one sign on an entire section deems the whole thing posted in my book....why the heck should a farmer have to spend X amount of money to post every change of crop on his section if he owns the whole thing. They showed intent and you should honor that.

I do think the way he went about the "punishment" was the wrong way, he should have came out and kicked you out and made you leave ALL your equipment....I then would have picked it all up and put it into one of my barns and made you go through the courts to get it back.

I know a farmer around here a few years back found a guy stuck in the mud on one of his fields 100 yards off the road......I believe the agreement for the guy to get his vehicle back was giving his gun to the farmer....good for the farmer.


----------



## Goose Guy350

I just can't even imagine someone doing something like this. I probably would of just watched the guy run all my gear over but if I thought my friend's or my dog's life was in jeopardy I'm not sure what I would of done. Kind of scary to think about it. I know if I would of had this happen to me I would for sure be pressing charges regardless of loosing hunting privileges or not. Just because you can't buy a licenses doesn't mean you can't hunt, just means you can't shoot game, leave the gun at home and get a nice camera and I bet you'll have a great time doing that. You may even be asked to go hunting more when guys want hunts filmed. Good luck, let us know what you decide.


----------



## blhunter3

Just because a quarter section, half section is posted, doesn't mean the whole section is off limits, many farmers can own a section. Trust me I know how expensive posting land can get, we post a ton of stuff and this year we had our signs stolen! Bottom line, the kids made an honost mistakes because the landowner improporly posted his field. The landowner went a step to far and now he will have to pay a price for his actions. As well as the kids.


----------



## GKBassplayer

There is no way EVER we would have left anything, he would have been calling the sheriff to make us leave without anything. My parents own lots of land in minnesota and thats part of your responsibility as a land owner to take care of your land. We repost our land EVERY YEAR VERY HEAVILY and we still have problems. It was a honest mistake. Seriously. I started hunting 15 years ago and have NEVER been accused of trespassing, or ever even come close.


----------



## Lvn2Hnt

All of the guys out here are giving you good advice - the best advice; however, is to pay a retainer fee and ask a LAWYER! A $100 or so just to get you a legal opinion could clear all of this up.

Just check in to it!

My :2cents: : Sue the pants off the guy.


----------



## Maverick

> the kids made an honost mistakes because the landowner improporly posted his field. The landowner went a step to far and now he will have to pay a price for his actions. As well as the kids.


That's the bottom line..........To all who are siding with the farmer
what if he had ran someone over in the blind! Would you still be siding with the farmer? Are you saying that he would be still in the right, and justify his killing? uke:


----------



## dblkluk

4CurlRedleg said:


> Matt Jones said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'm just trying to be helpful. If you want to keep your hunting privileges let this go.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, and next time someone ends on the wrong side of his tires or worse yet on the business end of his hi-power.
> 
> This peckerwood needs to pay for his crime, complacency does not apply here.
Click to expand...

BINGO!


----------



## omegax

goose_caller said:


> I do think the way he went about the "punishment" was the wrong way, he should have came out and kicked you out and made you leave ALL your equipment....I then would have picked it all up and put it into one of my barns and made you go through the courts to get it back.


You MUST be trolling... I don't think you thought your cunning plan all the way through. Just because it's on your property doesn't make it yours. THEFT isn't a civil matter. It's a criminal one, and if the value is high enough, it's a felony. If you tried that on me, I'd call the Sheriff, cop to the trespassing, and press charges for theft.


----------



## dogdonthunt

> I have never set a spread in a field in ND without first getting permission from the landowner.


thats nice good for you :eyeroll: 
yes Im being sarcastic and yes please take it that way.... you gotta be kidding siding for the landowner in this situation... wow :idiot:


----------



## goose_caller

Like I said let the courts sort it out.....if the property is on MY land illegally I am pretty darn sure I can do as I wish. So say someone puts a OBAMA sign in your front yard your just going to leave it there??? I am pretty sure your going to take it down and throw it away, so did you just STEAL that sign from the proper owner who maybe put it up by accident in the wrong front yard without knocking to ask permission to come on your land?


----------



## goose_caller

Personally I LOVE the Texas trespass law, it is a FELONY if your caught on another mans land with a firearm.....sure mistakes happen and the charges get lowered in court as I have seen in the past.....but there sure ain't a whole lot of trespassing issues down there.

I know a lot of people LOVE the ND trespass laws, but to me they make no sense.....you should never have to spend money out of your pocket to post your land to protect your interest....that expense should go on the shoulder of the hunter. Unless you drive around for 2-3 hours knocking on all the doors in a huge radius of the property and still get no answers do I feel you should just go on anothers property set a decoy spread.


----------



## Maverick

> .if the property is on MY land illegally I am pretty darn sure I can do as I wish


I am pretty darn sure you can't!!!!! Go read OMEGAX last post again!
So you are justify what he did and IF someone was in the blind you are justifing the would be death as well. WOW..... :withstupid:


----------



## goose_caller

Maverick said:


> .if the property is on MY land illegally I am pretty darn sure I can do as I wish
> 
> 
> 
> I am pretty darn sure you can't!!!!! Go read OMEGAX last post again!
> So you are justify what he did and IF someone was in the blind you are justifing the would be death as well. WOW..... :withstupid:
Click to expand...

READ MY POST, I did not agree with how he went about with the punishment.


----------



## Maverick

goose_caller said:


> Maverick said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .if the property is on MY land illegally I am pretty darn sure I can do as I wish
> 
> 
> 
> I am pretty darn sure you can't!!!!! Go read OMEGAX last post again!
> So you are justify what he did and IF someone was in the blind you are justifing the would be death as well. WOW..... :withstupid:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> READ MY POST, I did not agree with how he went about with the punishment.
Click to expand...

But you are justifing what he did by saying 


> .if the property is on MY land illegally I am pretty darn sure I can do as I wish


----------



## USAlx50

goose_caller said:


> Ya know, I am going to side with the landowner here. Personally I think ND's trespass law is dated and is due for change. I have never set a spread in a field in ND without first getting permission from the landowner. This is NOT an honest mistake, there WAS signs posting some of the land and that right there should have raised doubt on if it was all posted and what the true intentions of the land owner was....obviously if the land owner had taken the time to post some of his property, he probably intended it all to be off limits. I think it is just lazy not to knock on some doors period, sure you have a law stating you can go onto unposted land....but is that the right thing to do? Is it not fair to a landowner post or not to at least make an attempt to get permission to go on THEIR private property?
> My rule of thumb for posting is one sign on an entire section deems the whole thing posted in my book....why the heck should a farmer have to spend X amount of money to post every change of crop on his section if he owns the whole thing. They showed intent and you should honor that.
> 
> I do think the way he went about the "punishment" was the wrong way, he should have came out and kicked you out and made you leave ALL your equipment....I then would have picked it all up and put it into one of my barns and made you go through the courts to get it back.
> 
> I know a farmer around here a few years back found a guy stuck in the mud on one of his fields 100 yards off the road......I believe the agreement for the guy to get his vehicle back was giving his gun to the farmer....good for the farmer.


There's a surprise, a guide dislikes the trespass laws in ND. If I was making money off of people paying me to hunt I wouldn't want them to be able to freelance easily either.


----------



## blhunter3

USAlx50 said:


> goose_caller said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya know, I am going to side with the landowner here. Personally I think ND's trespass law is dated and is due for change. I have never set a spread in a field in ND without first getting permission from the landowner. This is NOT an honest mistake, there WAS signs posting some of the land and that right there should have raised doubt on if it was all posted and what the true intentions of the land owner was....obviously if the land owner had taken the time to post some of his property, he probably intended it all to be off limits. I think it is just lazy not to knock on some doors period, sure you have a law stating you can go onto unposted land....but is that the right thing to do? Is it not fair to a landowner post or not to at least make an attempt to get permission to go on THEIR private property?
> My rule of thumb for posting is one sign on an entire section deems the whole thing posted in my book....why the heck should a farmer have to spend X amount of money to post every change of crop on his section if he owns the whole thing. They showed intent and you should honor that.
> 
> I do think the way he went about the "punishment" was the wrong way, he should have came out and kicked you out and made you leave ALL your equipment....I then would have picked it all up and put it into one of my barns and made you go through the courts to get it back.
> 
> I know a farmer around here a few years back found a guy stuck in the mud on one of his fields 100 yards off the road......I believe the agreement for the guy to get his vehicle back was giving his gun to the farmer....good for the farmer.
> 
> 
> 
> There's a surprise, a guide dislikes the trespass laws in ND. If I was making money off of people paying me to hunt I wouldn't want them to be able to freelance easily either.
Click to expand...

 :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


----------



## scott

.if the property is on MY land illegally I am pretty darn sure I can do as I wish

Kids cut across my yard in town in Fargo on their way home from school. I wonder what would happen to me if I confiscated there lunch boxes and school books for walking across my yard illegally. I have read this thing with interest and to be honest this is about as bazaar as any story I have heard happen to hunters. This guy is off the chain in my opinion. He at the very least should be held accountable for the property damage. There is no call for anyone to react the way he did.


----------



## Turner

He never stopped to talk other than yelling at us for being on posted land. All four of us were standing there in shock.

I haven't read all the posts completely, are you sure it was the land owner and not an irate hunter that had permission or some one that had leased the land for hunting privileges? Did you get the license plate # and have the authorities run it for you so you know who it is?


----------



## jd mn/nd

In Montana the take what you want for tresspassing works not in ND, MN, SD, WI, IA, in all of the rest of the states east of Montana, it is considered theft, which by the time you took the gun, the decoys, the ammo, the blinds, and whatever else is there you have clearly exceeded $1000.00 which then makes it a felony theft!!

My guess is that on a first offense, and after watching and reading how they let off everyone else with a slap on the wrist in ND for violating hunting laws, my guess is that you will get a small fine if not completly excused with some kind of a trailer saying if caught again you will get it twice as bad.

But hey this guy not only tried to kill you he told you he was going to pull a gun on you and kill you. Not to mention that he destroyed about $1000.00 dollars of personal property( by the way political signs for idiots like oidiot are not considered personal property, they show how stupid you are) that would make it a felony as well so now he is looking at the way I count it THREE felony charges i'm pretty sure that will trump the crap out of one little tresspass charge against you. Beside you could probaly plea bargin the tresspass charge away in exchange for testitmony against this moron.

By the way if there are legal services that do not charge one dime if your income warrants it, look up some in the phone book and call them, they are based on your income and you only pay what they say is fair usually a small percentage of your income. This whole thing could cost you next to nothing to do the right thing.


----------



## goose_caller

Personally I would like to hear the farmers story, and know ALL the facts....not just the ones presented by one party.

It is obvious this guy was off his rocker, but I want to know what pushed him to that point.....I am sure he did not just wake up that morning and have this set him off.


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## USAlx50

Agreed. I'm sure there was something that built up to this. It's obvious that field has history if he got in trouble for plowing min maint road next to it in the past.

Doesn't justify anything.


----------



## dogdonthunt

> Personally I LOVE the Texas trespass law


well have fun hunting in texas then..... from what it sounds and if I remember right this guy has been in the news for plowing that road up the way they made it sound in that story is that this guy thinks hes above the law anyway.... no he did not just wake up and snap hes just an idiot plan and simple.... good luck boys in whichever path you take on this and its been an interesting read please keep us up to date with the info.... it would be interesting to find out what you guys find out....


----------



## Flick

If I think a guy is going after me, my buddies, or my dog I'm defending myself. I would have peppered the $hit out of his pickup. Course then probably go to jail but how do you control your emotions in a situation like this.


----------



## GKBassplayer

I talked to the sheriff again today and found out that the guy would be looking at a class A mistermeanor which carries a $1000 fine and up to a year in jail which is MAX so it would be much less. (Felony vandalism is over $2000 in damage, and in order to pursue anything for running over a blind we would have to prove he didn't know it was empty which is impossible) We would have $250 in court fees and another $200 fine so $450 each thats $1800 in total. After replacing our gear which isn't new cost its prorated for how old it is, we be looking at under $1000 so we could be looking at as much as a $800 loss. We are poor college students so its not looking good. We would not loose our hunting rights or anything like that. This whole thing just kinda sucks. I just wish I was a rich old guy and id take the loss to see the guy get in trouble.


----------



## dblkluk

At least check out this advice as offered from an earlier post..



> By the way if there are legal services that do not charge one dime if your income warrants it, look up some in the phone book and call them, they are based on your income and you only pay what they say is fair usually a small percentage of your income. This whole thing could cost you next to nothing to do the right thing.


Heck I'll chip in $20 for your legal fund.. :lol:


----------



## USSapper

dblkluk said:


> At least check out this advice as offered from an earlier post..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By the way if there are legal services that do not charge one dime if your income warrants it, look up some in the phone book and call them, they are based on your income and you only pay what they say is fair usually a small percentage of your income. This whole thing could cost you next to nothing to do the right thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Heck I'll chip in $20 for your legal fund.. :lol:
Click to expand...

Ill chip in $50

Is there anything I can do myself?


----------



## HUNTNFISHND

dblkluk said:


> Heck I'll chip in $20 for your legal fund..


 :withstupid:

Please reconsider, you would not want this guy doing this to somebody else and possibily killing someone would you?

I'm serious about the $20 too!


----------



## dblkluk

And yes I too am serious about the $20.


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## USAlx50

Do we need a paypal donation account? :lol:


----------



## Leo Porcello

cupped-in123 said:


> He had illegally tilled up a minimum maintinence road that ran on the side of this field and planted over it a while ago and moved the posted signs over to the edge, but then the county came in and prosecuted him for doing that to the road, and reestablished the road...... noone moved the posted signs back to the correct side of the minimum maintinence road..... thats basically why we didnt think it was posted (i hope that makes sense and clears things up a little.)


Did you know this before you hunted?


----------



## GKBassplayer

no we were told that by the sheriff


----------



## faithsdave

Give me an address and I will send $20. I am sure several others would also. :beer: At least take this to the press and see what they make of it.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg

Please don't take advice from the sheriff, it is their job to resolve it in a timely manner that would involve less work for them. Same with the county prosecutor.

Talk to a lawyer, they will advise you and get you where you want to be in regards to justice. Most won't charge to give you a quick summary of possibilties. It may shake out in your favor better than you think.


----------



## taddy1340

I'm good for $20...


----------



## cupped-in123

Leo Porcello said:


> cupped-in123 said:
> 
> 
> 
> He had illegally tilled up a minimum maintinence road that ran on the side of this field and planted over it a while ago and moved the posted signs over to the edge, but then the county came in and prosecuted him for doing that to the road, and reestablished the road...... noone moved the posted signs back to the correct side of the minimum maintinence road..... thats basically why we didnt think it was posted (i hope that makes sense and clears things up a little.)
> 
> 
> 
> Did you know this before you hunted?
Click to expand...

No......of course we didnt know before we hunted, we wouldnt have stepped foot on the field if we had any clue it was posted. we only learned about the road when we were talking to the sheriff, and he had told us about it


----------



## goose_caller

faithsdave said:


> At least take this to the press and see what they make of it.


And risk possibly turning other farmers against hunters? Nothing good will come of this by putting in the public eye other then maybe a little egg on the face of the farmer.....the fall out could be much worse then anything gained in my opinion.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

You can sue his Civily, You pick the amount. Dude if you win... which you will you get your money back, and you can make money on this. Talk to your parents. They will give you money. I will pitch in. Do you want me to give you my Lawyers number...? I have talked to him about this issue already as he is a big hunter.. He may even be able to work something out with you.

You NEED to go after him. You could seriously be looking at a serious settlement.

You do NOT need to prove that he knew there was someone in the blind. The doors were closed.... I reate the DOORS WERE CLOSED? RIGHT! :wink: He had no idea there wasn't a 3 month old baby laying in it.

When this goes to jury you just have to present a great case. BTW you SHOULD NOT be talking to the sheriff, your lawyer should be. Everything you keep talking to him about IS going to be used in court.

So Have your lawyer talk to him.


----------



## TANATA

Flick said:


> If I think a guy is going after me, my buddies, or my dog I'm defending myself. I would have peppered the $hit out of his pickup. Course then probably go to jail but how do you control your emotions in a situation like this.


They were easily in "direct danger" according to the courts. I would bet 99.99% they would have gotten out of peppering the POS.

But anyways, I'm hunting in the area this weekend, if I knock on his door and ask permission do you think that will work better?

Stir on


----------



## Leo Porcello

goose_caller said:


> And risk possibly turning other farmers against hunters? .


I don't think anyone should be in fear of that especially in this situation.


----------



## goose_caller

Leo Porcello said:


> goose_caller said:
> 
> 
> 
> And risk possibly turning other farmers against hunters? .
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone should be in fear of that especially in this situation.
Click to expand...

So if they take him to court looking for damages don't you think landowners might assoicate hunting = potential risk? You have to remember this will be read by a lot of uninformed people on the story, a lot can be lost when it is published in the media.....its weird how facts get altered, especially after they talk to the landowner who will tell them his version of the story......remember the media does not publish the truth always, but what works before for them.


----------



## Leo Porcello

So basically you are putting ALL landowners and farmers in the same lump as this guy implying they all agree with his actions. The guy was plain stupid and I believe most farmers/land owners would agree.


----------



## barebackjack

Im on the hunters side. This landowner sounds like the holier than thou type that thinks they own the entire countryside, of which there are a few out there.

But the fact that debating whether or not to pursue legal action has me doubting your story.

You NEED to consult a lawyer, PLAIN AND SIMPLE! Stop talking to the sheriff, to us, to anybody BUT A LAWYER.

This is a no brainer, you need to get legal consultation.


----------



## duckmander

> Hahnker wrote:
> 
> I thought about it. It was really hard to watch him drive over the majority of my 8 dz bigfoots and everything else. It went through my head many times if i should shoot a tire out and stop this. But most likely I would have been in a lot more trouble then and I determined it wasn't worth it. Another reason is because in the middle of this rampage the man stopped and between the swearing managed to say "You guys are lucky I don't shoot all of you." I had no idea if he had a gun in that truck with him and didn't want to find out. I was just hoping he was going to leave and didn't want to give him a reason to get out of his truck or possibly shoot back.
> 
> 
> 
> Wise decision...escalating the situation would not have been the right thing to do IMO.
Click to expand...

probably the best thing you didnt do. and more details may help people help you.

also hope he is one of those mayors nobody liked. it could help your case. if the best thing since sliced bread is their thinking you may be nuts and bolts.


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## MRN

I'm in for $20 if you get a fine.

M.


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## GKBassplayer

barebackjack said:


> But the fact that debating whether or not to pursue legal action has me doubting your story.


What else could there be? He saw us on his land and he was ******.


----------



## barebackjack

GKBassplayer said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> 
> But the fact that debating whether or not to pursue legal action has me doubting your story.
> 
> 
> 
> What else could there be? He saw us on his land and he was ticked.
Click to expand...

Im saying we're taking your story for face value, not calling you a liar, but there could be more to it that your holding back. And usually, when someone is unwilling to pursue legal action means their hiding something.

If your story is as you told it here, you NEED to talk to a lawyer and you needed to do it like yesterday.

To me being compensated for my destroyed equipment would be a bonus, it would be the principle of the matter to me. People that act like this need to be held accountable for their actions.

I wish you the best of luck, like I said, take him for a ride, he deserves it.


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## TK33

I am not a lawyer by any means, but I have been through a couple of litigations. I am almost positive that your destroyed gear will fall under small claims court. I think in ND anything under $5,000 falls into small claims jurisdictions. No lawyer required, just some forms. Even if the jerk doesn't show, I think you can still get a settlement by default or whatever it is called. The sheriff has to enforce the settlement, which could be kind of ironic for you.

There is a minuimal fee, I think like 50 bucks to go to small claims court and the party who loses pays that fee (farmer). Let the criminal case go first and follow with small claims court. You got the pictures, get a list of your damages, and get a prices from a few different stores and go from there.

I also agree that talking to a lawyer is going to be step one. The fact that you were on posted land is the sticking point for your situation, best to be answered by a lawyer. Find one in Stutsman county, or someone from Fargo who knows Stutsman County, from what you said in an earlier post there is bound to be someone there who for legal or political reasons hates this guy as much as you do. The other people here are right on the money about not taking the advice of the sheriff, it is definitely not his job to give you any legal advice. You might be able to get restitution thrown into his sentence for your gear also. Going to a full oncivil trial will be a lot of head aches and expense and you may not come out of it with anything, juries in ND do not like to hand out money like they do in other areas of the country.

I have had a few unfortunate incidents in Stutsman and Barnes Counties, not hunting, but working. Even had to have the sheriff come out so that we could continue working. There are still some anti gov't and anti everything folks there; the number of normal, good people are still the overwhelming majority though, so don't worry about a backlash. It might be wise to let that area cool off before you go out there again.


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## TK33

There has got to be at least a few attorneys on this site, could you give these kids some advice or a referral pro bono?


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## TANATA

No need for a lawyer with this small claims case. Take it to court, you have how many witnesses versus this douche with a record to show he doesn't care. You also have pictures and a Sheriff's report to show HE WAS IN THE WRONG. You trespassing or not. Doesn't matter if you were foolin around in the hay with his virgin daughter. He was in the wrong and therefore you will get some if not everything covered if you make a half [email protected]@ decent case.

If you take it to small claims, they are not going to pursue further charges on you for hunting on posted property. Plain and simple.


----------



## goose_caller

Leo Porcello said:


> So basically you are putting ALL landowners and farmers in the same lump as this guy implying they all agree with his actions. The guy was plain stupid and I believe most farmers/land owners would agree.


Yes they would probably agree, but ONLY if they get told the story as it was on here which will not be the case as they will approach both sides and probably the law which will give 3 different stories and it is up to the reporter to write what they want.....ya just never know with the media, most of whom are liberal pukes.


----------



## Matt Jones

GKBassplayer said:


> So could we be charged with both? If that guy gets a felony, he looses all hunting rights for 10 years and worse..


No, you can't be charged with both.



> Under North Dakota law, two other types of penalties can occur. If an offense is a criminal offense, a person convicted may be subject to loss of all equipment including vehicles used or held with intent to be used to take fish or wildlife. No forfeiture of equipment or vehicles can occur for a non-criminal violation. A person's license to hunt, fish and trap may be suspended for three years on any criminal offense. *Hunting on posted land carries a mandatory suspension for one year.* All other suspensions are at the discretion of the Court hearing the case. Non-criminal offenses are not subject to license suspensions.
> 
> North Dakota is a member of the Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact. So any suspension of a license in North Dakota may become a suspension in all other member states. Conversely if an out of state conviction results in a suspension in that state and that state is a member of the compact, the individual could lose his or her license privileges in this State. It is the responsibility of the person suspended to check their status with the other States in the Compact.


If you want to fight this, then by all means do so. But in the process of doing so you are most likely going to be convicted of hunting on posted land and you are going to lose your hunting privileges for a year. If you are extremely lucky you might be able to plead it down to a criminal trespass in which case you wouldn't lose your hunting priviliges.

PM Almomatic on this site and ask him how his fight went. A farmer did this exact same thing to him in an *Unposted* field Even after he called and left a message on the farmer's answering machine letting him know he was going to hunt there. He told the farmer to call him if he didn't want him hunting the field (he had dealt with him before and knew he was a prick) but since it was unposted he assumed it would be alright.

Long story short, the farmer came and did figure 8's in the decoys, with all of the hunters in the blinds and the truck was even driving between guys sitting in blinds. Alm took the guy to court to cover the damages and *LOST*. Even though this field was unposted and he had every legal right to be there (something you don't have working in your favor).

No offense here, but you're a guy from out of town hunting in this "guy's" county. He's a farmer there, and has probably lived there his entire life. What are your chances that a jury of people in that county are going to convict this guy when you were the one on his property illegally? Essentially you're banking on a jury to convict one of their neighbors and take your side...a total outsider who was trespassing in the first place. Good luck.

I'm totally in agreement that what he did was completely uncalled for and total BS. I'd be mad as hell too. He should have just called the sheriff and had you ticketed or been really nice and came out there to chew your azz.

I know a lot of guys here are going to push for you to fight this but I really don't see where you have much of a chance. If you can get out of this without any legal proceedings and with the only loss being your gear (thank god), I'd let it go...if it was me.

If you want to fight it, I'll contribute $20 as well. You're going to need it.

Definitely look into all your options before making a decision.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

Matt, that makes zero sense that he lost.... If I go break into the house across the street, kick in there door, run into there bedroom and cut my arm while I am climbing over his wife, I can sue, and Under North Dakota statute I can win.... I am on his property, and he is responsible for me when I am on it no matter what.

It sounds like he had a crappy lawyer and didn't have all of his ducks in a row.

Here is a great story, not exactly the same, but still very similar in the lines of something you would think was legal wasn't.... We were brushing the cities sand back onto the road in the spring....At the time there was no city ordanence against it.... Now there is... Well a guy on his rocket was doing a wheelie on 13th where we were doing it, came down slid on the sand and crashed. He brought us to court and won. Even with witnesses saying he was doing a wheelie. Courts do crazy things. You just have to have a better lawyer then the guy sitting across from you.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

goose_caller said:


> Leo Porcello said:
> 
> 
> 
> So basically you are putting ALL landowners and farmers in the same lump as this guy implying they all agree with his actions. The guy was plain stupid and I believe most farmers/land owners would agree.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they would probably agree, but ONLY if they get told the story as it was on here which will not be the case as they will approach both sides and probably the law which will give 3 different stories and it is up to the reporter to write what they want.....ya just never know with the media, most of whom are liberal pukes.
Click to expand...

I have read all of your posts and I really don't understand your position and why? You are a hunter correct? Why would you want to make it harder for everyone to get on land? Like USA had stated, is this because you are/ were a guide and have leased up a ton of land? It really doesn't make sense to me.... If anything this may cause the farmers to post there stuff up BETTER, so things like this don't happen.


----------



## goose_caller

hunt4P&Y said:


> I have read all of your posts and I really don't understand your position and why? You are a hunter correct? Why would you want to make it harder for everyone to get on land? Like USA had stated, is this because you are/ were a guide and have leased up a ton of land? It really doesn't make sense to me.... If anything this may cause the farmers to post there stuff up BETTER, so things like this don't happen.


I am in favor respecting property owners, nothing more and nothing less.....and none of it has to do with me being a guide, I free lance more each year then most.....I just don't find it that hard to track down a landowner I guess when something is in doubt.

Stuff like this will be what gets the law changed in ND sooner or later, I can only imagine what built up to this point with this landowner and people disrespecting his property. So when someone from the media goes to get this guys side of the story he tells them stories of dozens of events that led up to this one day.....and then other farmers think, ya that happened to me too......well next thing you know they got a cause led by a guy that knows something about how government works and he is knocking on everyones office door in Bismarck pushing his idea.....how do you think laws come to be? They come from special interest groups or individuals who piss and moan until it is just easier to pass their dam law to get them to leave you alone.


----------



## woodpecker

goose_caller said:


> I can only imagine what built up to this point with this landowner and people disrespecting his property


Might not have anything to do with people not respecting him!! Could be just a loose cannon!!

http://www.ndcourts.gov/publicsearch/contactsearch.aspx


----------



## ruger1

goose_caller said:


> Leo Porcello said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> goose_caller said:
> 
> 
> 
> And risk possibly turning other farmers against hunters? .
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think anyone should be in fear of that especially in this situation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *So if they take him to court looking for damages don't you think landowners might assoicate hunting = potential risk?* You have to remember this will be read by a lot of uninformed people on the story, a lot can be lost when it is published in the media.....its weird how facts get altered, especially after they talk to the landowner who will tell them his version of the story......remember the media does not publish the truth always, but what works before for them.
Click to expand...

They should. At least associate it with "If I run over guys and their gear, I'll get in trouble (risk)."


----------



## Almomatic

hunt4P&Y said:


> It sounds like he had a crappy lawyer and didn't have all of his ducks in a row.


I had my ducks in a row, and the state's attorney that prosecuted is an avid goose hunter, it all came down to a bunch of local landowners sitting in the jury that protected their own, even though VOSSLER from Mercer, ND is a fricken moron. It was still worth making him spend his money to go to court, I didn't have to pay a dime, even got reimbursed mileage for driving to Washburn from GF. Sometimes you aren't going to win, but that doesn't mean you should stand up for yourself. I wish it would have never happened, I pretty much lost my desire to hunt waterfowl after that day, everytime I see a truck driving by the spread slow now I'm waiting for some sh$% to start, makes things not as fun anymore.

Joneser - I didn't know that guy or I would have never hunted their in the first place, I've been told by others on this site that even with permission he came out and started sh$% because they drove into the field, ask your webmaster about that one.


----------



## TANATA

I have a really hard time believing you were on unposted land, had your stuff destroyed and life endangered, put up a good case, and still got nothing. This isn't the good ole boys court system in an Alabama swamp.


----------



## Almomatic

Believe what you want, you can ask the five other guys that were with if I'm telling the truth, GOOD OLD BOY system is alive and well anywhere you go, don't be so nieve.

Offense: DISORDERLY CONDUCT 
Severity Class: MB Officer Badge Number: 
Issuing Agency: Mandatory Court Appearance: N 
Court: Date Filed: 10/24/2005 
Def Appeared: Citation Number: 0 Plea: 
Charge Plead Guilty: Plead Severity Class: 
Sentencing Date: Sentencing Judge: ROBERT O. WEFALD 
Current Status: ACQUITTAL 
Offense Date: 9/1/2005 Vehicle Type: 
Judge Assigned: ROBERT O. WEFALD Date Closed: 2/15/2006 
Incident Number: 0

Interested Parties: 
Party Type Party Name City 
ATTY. FOR DEFENDANT BALABAN STEVEN BISMARCK ND 
ATTY. FOR PLAINTIFF ERICKSON LADD WASHBURN ND 
DEFENDANT VOSSLER LAMOYNE LEE 
PLAINTIFF STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA

Events and Case Documents: 
Document Number Event description Event Date Event Start Time Judge Name Entered Date 
19 TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL PROCEEDINGS 07/17/2006 
18 JUDGMENT OF ACQUITTAL 02/15/2006  
17 VERDICT (NOT GUILTY) 02/15/2006 
16 CLERK'S MINUTES/PEREMPTORY CHALLENGES 02/15/2006 
15 INSTRUCTIONS TO THE JURY 02/15/2006 
ACQUITTAL ROBERT O. WEFALD 02/15/2006 
14 ATTORNEY'S CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE 02/10/2006 
13 BRIEF IN SUPPORT OF MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE WITNESSES 02/10/2006 
12 MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE WITNESSES 02/10/2006 
11 NOTICE OF MOTION IN LIMINE TO EXCLUDE WITNESSES 02/10/2006 
10 SUPPLEMENTAL DISCOVERY CHECKLIST 01/12/2006 
9 NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT OF JUDGE/ORDER SETTING TRIAL DATE 12/22/2005 
JURY OF SIX (6) 02/14/2006 9:00:00 AM ROBERT O. WEFALD 12/21/2005 
8 WAIVER OF PRETRIAL CONF 12/21/2005 
7 DISCOVERY CHECKLIST 12/05/2005 
PRETRIAL CONFERENCE 12/21/2005 10:30:00 AM BURT RISKEDAHL 11/18/2005 
6 SCHEDULING ORDER/PRETRIAL CONF 11/18/2005 
5 BOND ORDER 11/18/2005 
4 NOTICE OF APPEARANCE, DISCOVER REQUEST AND CERT OF SERVICE 11/18/2005 
3 RETURN OF SERVICE 10/27/2005 
COURT APPEARANCE 11/16/2005 9:00:00 AM DONALD JORGENSEN 10/24/2005 
2 COMPLAINT/AFFIDAVIT 10/24/2005 
1 SUMMONS


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com

TANATA said:


> I have a really hard time believing you were on unposted land, had your stuff destroyed and life endangered, put up a good case, and still got nothing. This isn't the good ole boys court system in an Alabama swamp.


I've heard all about it...it's true.

I kind of wonder though why the state's attorney didn't go after something like reckless endangerment?


----------



## TANATA

wow. Did the jurors all have overalls on to match there 2 teeth. I can't even imagine something like that could happen with a states attorney around. Guess ya never know when you go to jury.

Had a lawyer tell me one time I would probably be found guilty of something that I was legally in the clear off, cause the jury would most likely be a bunch of old ladies trying to do good and lay down some punishment. So I guess I can picture that scenario, but that's gotta be stretchin it! No appeal or anything available?


----------



## barebackjack

Heres another good one:

While pheasant hunting in NW ND some years back our group got pinched for tresspassing. We drove around the section three times looking for posters and getting a game plan together before going into the abandoned farmstead in the middle which was loaded with roosters. We found no posters anywhere. Upon coming out, we found the landowner sitting in his car writing our license #'s down on the dashboard with a sharpie (thats right, ON the dash with a sharpie). Asked him what the problem was, he said we were on posted property and hes turning us in. Long story short, we pleaded our case with him than and there, he had none of it. So we left, drove around the property again and again. Finally found one. ONE poster on a powerline pole, facing INTO the field.
We took it to court and lost. The "intent to post" was there was what we were told.
Found out later that this paticular guy (a real hermit looking dude) had gotten in trouble that summer for shooting at county gravel trucks taking gravel off his land, taking the gravel that he had sold to the county :eyeroll: .

So it just goes to show, on their turf, landowners can get away with quite a bit, whether their in the right or not.


----------



## buckseye

> I kind of wonder though why the state's attorney didn't go after something like reckless endangerment?


You and me both!

You want to hear another one, last year I was out walking during deer rifle season. All of a sudden a cop car comes flying up to me the officer saying get in get in. I said why, he said so and so just called them and asked if he could shoot me. So they put me in the cop car and let him go. Whats up with that? I was walking down section lines and gravel roads for rehab concerning my back.

Anyway I filed a report that this ahole wants to kill me. The cops think it's funny. I think when I have another problem with this person I am calling the FBI, if I am alive.


----------



## Almomatic

buckseye said:


> I kind of wonder though why the state's attorney didn't go after something like reckless endangerment?
> 
> 
> 
> You and me both!
> 
> You want to hear another one, last year I was out walking during deer rifle season. All of a sudden a cop car comes flying up to me the officer saying get in get in. I said why, he said so and so just called them and asked if he could shoot me. So they put me in the cop car and let him go. Whats up with that? I was walking down section lines and gravel roads for rehab concerning my back.
> 
> Anyway I filed a report that this ahole wants to kill me. The cops think it's funny. I think when I have another problem with this person I am calling the FBI, if I am alive.
Click to expand...

The deputy on our scene didn't want to do anything either, he asked me "what do you want me to do about it", he even listened to the messages we left on the guys answering machine, figured it would be alot of paperwork for him. Thats why the states attorney took it, the deputy wouldn't arrest him. As far as reckless endangerment, he skidded to a stop between my blind and fellow Nodaker Chris Davies, I think his door opened over Chris's blind, one little serve and it would've been alot worse. I did have my finger on the trigger and was waiting to see a gun, lights out for that guy if he was carrying, thank God that didn't happen, I'd be in prison for that I'm sure. Its funny how justice works in rural areas, still makes me nervous when I'm in the field, waiting for the next wacko..

I wish it would've been up to the judge, he was a scoutmaster in the troup I was an eagle scout in, I didn't have to prove my character to him!


----------



## TANATA

I can't remember the name of the movie, pretty old school, but these 3 or 4 city slickers go rafting in some real rural area down south. Well they end up getting raped by some hillbillies and one of the hicks they end up killing, well is the sheriff's nephew so the city guys don't fair well.

Anyone know what I'm talking about. Reminds me of these stories you guys have. Crazy stuff. :eyeroll:


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

Almomatic said:


> buckseye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of wonder though why the state's attorney didn't go after something like reckless endangerment?
> 
> 
> 
> You and me both!
> 
> You want to hear another one, last year I was out walking during deer rifle season. All of a sudden a cop car comes flying up to me the officer saying get in get in. I said why, he said so and so just called them and asked if he could shoot me. So they put me in the cop car and let him go. Whats up with that? I was walking down section lines and gravel roads for rehab concerning my back.
> 
> Anyway I filed a report that this ahole wants to kill me. The cops think it's funny. I think when I have another problem with this person I am calling the FBI, if I am alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deputy on our scene didn't want to do anything either, he asked me "what do you want me to do about it", he even listened to the messages we left on the guys answering machine, figured it would be alot of paperwork for him. Thats why the states attorney took it, the deputy wouldn't arrest him. As far as reckless endangerment, he skidded to a stop between my blind and fellow Nodaker Chris Davies, I think his door opened over Chris's blind, one little serve and it would've been alot worse. I did have my finger on the trigger and was waiting to see a gun, lights out for that guy if he was carrying, thank God that didn't happen, I'd be in prison for that I'm sure. Its funny how justice works in rural areas, still makes me nervous when I'm in the field, waiting for the next wacko..
> 
> I wish it would've been up to the judge, he was a scoutmaster in the troup I was an eagle scout in, I didn't have to prove my character to him!
Click to expand...

COngrats on the Eagle! I am one also! 8)

I have had my Deer rifle in my blind before during deer season for this exact reason.


----------



## seabass

TANATA said:


> I can't remember the name of the movie, pretty old school, but these 3 or 4 city slickers go rafting in some real rural area down south. Well they end up getting raped by some hillbillies and one of the hicks they end up killing, well is the sheriff's nephew so the city guys don't fair well.
> 
> Anyone know what I'm talking about. Reminds me of these stories you guys have. Crazy stuff. :eyeroll:


The Deliverance

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068473/

I think Ned Beatty (the receiver in what you describe above) lives (or has a home) near here.


----------



## Eric Hustad

This is a really screwed up guy and no farmer is going to take offense because you take this freak to court. His neighbors probably know he is nuts already and are glad someone is doing something about it. You have to go and follow through on this as it may save someone from really getting hurt in the future. I would gladly throw in money for the court fees as I see it as insurance against a psyco. Put me down for $25.00


----------



## Eric Hustad

Where were you guys hunting at where this happened??


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

Eric Hustad said:


> Where were you guys hunting at where this happened??


I think they said North and West of Jimmy town


----------



## MSG Rude

Eric Hustad said:


> Put me down for $25.00


Put me in the book for $25.00 too.


----------



## USAlx50

hunt4P&Y said:


> I have had my Deer rifle in my blind before during deer season for this exact reason.


Really? So you bring a deer rifle in the goose blind so you can shoot any landowner before he shoots you or runs you over? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

:bs:


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

USAlx50 said:


> hunt4P&Y said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have had my Deer rifle in my blind before during deer season for this exact reason.
> 
> 
> 
> Really? So you bring a deer rifle in the goose blind so you can shoot any landowner before he shoots you or runs you over? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> :bs:
Click to expand...

No no no! I started that one day when we had the coyote come in, but after that the next weekend was deer season... So I figured it was a good idea, with the crazies that kept glassing the spread. Gotta match them for fire power :lol:


----------



## Bobm

TANATA said:


> I have a really hard time believing you were on unposted land, had your stuff destroyed and life endangered, put up a good case, and still got nothing. This isn't the good ole boys court system in an Alabama swamp.


Thats a good one if this happened in the south there would be a different ending, and no one down here ( if sober) is stupid enough to die over geese.

If you drove through a bunch of good ol boys dekes down here you would be found room temperature :lol: court would of been held and justice would of been swift.

A good friend of mine killed two smart *** guys in his front yard over a bushel of peaches and didn't even have to go to court, it was ruled justifiable

You yankees are sure a tolerant bunch :lol:

reading this has been a hoot!


----------



## Dan Bueide

WHEW - when I first started reading this thread I was afraid g/o had gone "ninja" on another group of resident hunters. Glad to find out it was a different "zealous" landowner.

From the free legal advice department (remember, you get what you pay for), I think the majority on this thread have given you the "right" direction. Considering all circumstances, however, I think Jonesey has given you the correct advice.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg

Bobm said:


> If you drove through a bunch of good ol boys dekes down here you would be found room temperature :lol: court would of been held and justice would of been swift.
> 
> You yankees are sure a tolerant bunch


Not all of us. I am tellin' you "cowboy justice", swift and inexpensive.

I am glad you get a hoot out of it, I think it is a very serious matter.


----------



## Bobm

4CurlRedleg said:


> Bobm said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you drove through a bunch of good ol boys dekes down here you would be found room temperature :lol: court would of been held and justice would of been swift.
> 
> You yankees are sure a tolerant bunch
> 
> 
> 
> Not all of us. I am tellin' you "cowboy justice", swift and inexpensive.
> 
> I am glad you get a hoot out of it, I think it is a very serious matter.
Click to expand...

lighten up, you and I are on the same page about this I just find it amazing what goes on in this world sometimes. Over geese no less.


----------



## 4CurlRedleg

Agreed.

I'm not sure it is in particularly over geese. It is more like infringement and then a meltdown on the next SOB that crosses your path. I've had to serve justice over what I thought was the 3 stinky grouse I sluiced, nope, it was this little piece of property out in the middle of absolutely nowhere that no one ever ventured in. But me. 4 minute conversation and it didn't cost him a dime. 8)


----------



## Bobm

I honestly wish you guys and everybody in ND could live in the area I live in for a while so you would truly understand how blessed you are :beer:

stress does strange things to people, take traffic, people will do stuff they would never do in person. this thing is just a version of ND road rage

I pass more cars on the road everyday between 7 and 9 am than are in North Dakota.

north dakota is heaven on earth. I hope I get up there this fall


----------



## 4CurlRedleg

Bobm said:


> I honestly wish you guys and everybody in ND could live in the area I live in for a while so you would truly understand how blessed you are :beer:


 :lol: :lol: We are quite sheltered from the scourge up here. BOB. :roll:


----------



## Matt Jones

Almomatic said:


> Joneser - I didn't know that guy or I would have never hunted their in the first place, I've been told by others on this site that even with permission he came out and started sh$% because they drove into the field, ask your webmaster about that one.


Sorry Alm, I didn't mean to misconstrue the facts. For some reason I thought you had dealt with him before the incident.


----------



## g/o

> WHEW - when I first started reading this thread I was afraid g/o had gone "ninja" on another group of resident hunters.


That only happens Dan when my lips are yellow, then I go a little crazy :evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## ndwaterfowler

Almomatic said:


> buckseye said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kind of wonder though why the state's attorney didn't go after something like reckless endangerment?
> 
> 
> 
> You and me both!
> 
> You want to hear another one, last year I was out walking during deer rifle season. All of a sudden a cop car comes flying up to me the officer saying get in get in. I said why, he said so and so just called them and asked if he could shoot me. So they put me in the cop car and let him go. Whats up with that? I was walking down section lines and gravel roads for rehab concerning my back.
> 
> Anyway I filed a report that this ahole wants to kill me. The cops think it's funny. I think when I have another problem with this person I am calling the FBI, if I am alive.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The deputy on our scene didn't want to do anything either, he asked me "what do you want me to do about it", he even listened to the messages we left on the guys answering machine, figured it would be alot of paperwork for him. Thats why the states attorney took it, the deputy wouldn't arrest him. As far as reckless endangerment, he skidded to a stop between my blind and fellow Nodaker Chris Davies, I think his door opened over Chris's blind, one little serve and it would've been alot worse. I did have my finger on the trigger and was waiting to see a gun, lights out for that guy if he was carrying, thank God that didn't happen, I'd be in prison for that I'm sure. Its funny how justice works in rural areas, still makes me nervous when I'm in the field, waiting for the next wacko..
> 
> I wish it would've been up to the judge, he was a scoutmaster in the troup I was an eagle scout in, I didn't have to prove my character to him!
Click to expand...

It was not one of the better outings we had. The sad part to our story, as has been brought up with the this one as well, is that someone very easily could have been killed while laying in the blind. Like Alm said, one swerve, 3ft, in either direction and either one of us could have been killed. It's not like the guy drove up slowly either. The sheriff estimated, by the skid marks BEFORE he started the donuts in the dekes, about 40-50 mph. I could go on and on.....like many on here have already said, consult a lawyer, soon and get the ball rolling if you decide to.

Chris


----------



## F350

Better yet , hunt land you have permission from landowner to be on. Kinda eliminates these incidents.


----------



## F350

even if it isnt posted.....


----------



## TANATA

Like many people have said, getting permission first is not always an option. Part of North Dakota law that's nice, especially for me. If we get out scouting, it's after school and work, and we need to rush to find geese before it gets dark, let alone drive to farms and talk to people or trying to call and get a hold of the farmer. By then we are headed back to start on homework so we can spend time in the field the next day.

And if the field isn't posted, then what, just drive to all the nearest farms and try and find out who's land it is? If we're hunting pheasant we will because we will be back, but for a 2 hour hunt in the morning and probably never going in that field again? I think you get the idea, I would love to talk to every farmer I usually get into some good conversations with them, but can't always do that and hope someone doesn't run me over because of it.


----------



## F350

Maybe you need to quit being one of the road hunters and take the time , yes the almighty time to get a county atlas, get acquainted to your area . You are young enough to learn what other hunters do to get access, if you just cant lose your lazy approach to not knocking on doors, stay in Fargo


----------



## blhunter3

F350 said:


> Maybe you need to quit being one of the road hunters and take the time , yes the almighty time to get a county atlas, get acquainted to your area . You are young enough to learn what other hunters do to get access, if you just cant lose your lazy approach to not knocking on doors, stay in Fargo


 :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:

Sometimes finding the owner is impossible or close to it. Even getting a hold of him is sometimes a task all in itself


----------



## HUNTNFISHND

F350,

I would agree with you for the most part. Although most of the landowners where I am from do not post there land because they do not want to be bothered with people asking permission. I still will ussually ask anyway if I know where the owner is or how to contact them. If not and birds are there and time is of the essence, I am going to hunt. Waterfowl do not use the same field very often.

Still wether posted or not, this landowner was way outta line. Don't you agree? Your not condoning his actions are you?


----------



## TANATA

F350 said:


> Maybe you need to quit being one of the road hunters and take the time , yes the almighty time to get a county atlas, get acquainted to your area . You are young enough to learn what other hunters do to get access, if you just cant lose your lazy approach to not knocking on doors, stay in Fargo


Well I suppose I'll just have to drop out of school and stop working so I have plenty of time to hang out in the country and talk to every farmer I can.

Spoken like someone who gets out once a year and doesn't know what it's like going to school, which is probably why your name is F350 and your sitting around having a chew and workin on some PBR at 4 in the afternoon. Don't tell me I shouldn't get out of Fargo and hunt because I don't go above and beyond what the law states.


----------



## F350

Tanata , getoff your high horse ,I went to and graduated from SU so dont drop any. The reason I drive a 350 , omg , I work more hours than your so called full time 20 hours you spend in class a WEEK . Yes you work , I really dont care how much , if you cant take advice on landowner relations, move on , and you will be the next roadie crying about smashed decoys. You fit the classic definition of a roadie. Stay in Fargo, the real hunters are out here having an 18 of bud lite with me, not your pbr


----------



## KRAKMT

I grew up in the ND badlands but am a Montana prosecutor these days. I deal with these issues often and it is not nearly as straight forward as many would think. For every hunter that thinks this landowner should be hanged there are as many land owners that think the trespassers should swing.

I find it ironic that a couple posters here have argued that if your injured in the course of burglarizing someone's home then you should be able to sue. I know 12 people sitting on a jury in Montana would not be sympathetic and suspect the same in ND.

I suspect at least 1 person out of a jury of 12 ( it takes a unanimous decision in a criminal case, here) would side with this landowner. I suspect the defense attorney will argue the exact point argued above, that to allow a burglar to sue is outrageous "just like these college punks suing this poor sympathetic landowner who was pushed to his breaking point by disrespectful hunters. You landowners have all been there, gates left open, trash left everywhere, hunters hunting where it was clearly posted or where this guy tried his darnest to post it right." The jurors heads start nodding and the case will go down hill from there.

But that is a decision for the prosecutor to make after a complete investigation. Or better yet, your private attorney paid to vindicate your rights. The verdict does not have to be unanimous or beyond a reasonable doubt then. I would encourage you to pursue all your legal rights. And I would like to know how it turnes out.

Montana now requires prior permission for all hunters. It still creates problems ( like if your buddy tells you he got permission and didn't or if the landowner gave him permission but not permission for the bus load of people you bring along.

Here is an example of a local hunting delema
http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles ... tdoors.txt

Good luck.
K


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

KRAKMT,

What level of prosecutor are you? I think everyone will agree MT, is alot less Liberal then ND. I have been in a court house in MT, I have also been in a court house in Fargo..... BIG DIFFERENCE.

What town are you in? I will agree that a case as to a burglar sueing is Bull, however there is many supreme court cases that have set a presedent in this order, and there is a case just like this that WENT through in Fargo.

I am not in any way doubting your experience, just wondering a few things!


----------



## cupped-in123

F350: wow.... i agree with TANATA... you're probably the kind of hunter who goes out with a dozen shells, lays down in the field in your plad cuttoff shirt and sky blasts them at 60 yards (missing of course b/c you're too hung over to see strait) listen dude....... A LOT of people hunt fields without asking permission if they are UNPOSTED...... its how it works, landowners know the law and post it if they dont want people out there. DONT tell TANATA to get off his high horse..... you should be the one to get off yours.... ya reckon'??? who do you think you are telling us how to hunt? ide like to compare your hunts this year with mine.... and then see who knows their stuff. :eyeroll:


----------



## cupped-in123

and we arent road hunters...... how do you road hunt geese anyways? do you know anything? road hunting pheasants maybe...... but geese???? come on f350


----------



## KRAKMT

hunt4P&Y,

I am a County Attorney north of Billings. We do not have district attorneys. I prosecute everything from homicides (MT doesn't use the old commonlaw criminal statutes) to speeding tickets and fish and game violations.

If ND has precedent that supports prosecuting crimes against trespassers then that may encourage the prosecutor. 
We don't- our law generally states that a person can use reasonable force in protecting property. That would be the affirmative defense argued to the jury depending on the charge. Not a black and white issue at least with the snapshot we are given. 
I think Almomatic's story is pretty analogous.

I once was riding a four wheeler with my cousins on a mountain road. The crazy guy living in a bus had dug tiger traps in the trail to crash the riders. My cousins went over the rise to see if the guy was home because everyone always cut through- they turned around and drove off, when I turned around I caught some barbwire around the axle- guy came running up pointing a revolver in my face. He let me go but it was crazy. Little response from authorities. Same?

I only remember one or two Courthouses in ND; one was the impetus for my legal career.


----------



## F350

Wow , another know it all Fargo hunter, just reinforces my stereotype of them.I dont need to answer to any of your "immature slams", you dont know me, never will. Just that we post , and its a number of acres that some would find extremely large, and these are my rules, and most if not ALL of my neighbors. Too lazy to do the legwork, too lazy to have the oportunity for access.Simple as that.


----------



## hunt4P&amp;Y

KRAKMT said:


> hunt4P&Y,
> 
> I am a County Attorney north of Billings. We do not have district attorneys. I prosecute everything from homicides (MT doesn't use the old commonlaw criminal statutes) to speeding tickets and fish and game violations.
> 
> If ND has precedent that supports prosecuting crimes against trespassers then that may encourage the prosecutor.
> We don't- our law generally states that a person can use reasonable force in protecting property. That would be the affirmative defense argued to the jury depending on the charge. Not a black and white issue at least with the snapshot we are given.
> I think Almomatic's story is pretty analogous.
> 
> I once was riding a four wheeler with my cousins on a mountain road. The crazy guy living in a bus had dug tiger traps in the trail to crash the riders. My cousins went over the rise to see if the guy was home because everyone always cut through- they turned around and drove off, when I turned around I caught some barbwire around the axle- guy came running up pointing a revolver in my face. He let me go but it was crazy. Little response from authorities. Same?
> 
> I only remember one or two Courthouses in ND; one was the impetus for my legal career.


Interesting stuff. My Great uncle was actually a Lawyer in Billings!

I must say I have learned some crazy stuff from people like you! You guys see a ton of stuff.


----------



## duckp

KRAKMT,
Right on.Far from cut and dry.30 yrs as a trial lawyer tells me that anyone telling these guys they have a slam dunk is full of bunk.Talk is cheap,trials aren't-in many ways.


----------



## KEN W

Stop the personal attacks or this ends right now. :eyeroll:

Oh and 350.....I live near Fargo.Saying "Wow ,another know it all Fargo hunter, just reinforces my stereotype of them." is a bit much.100,000 people aren't all the same.


----------



## F350

yep , Ken just like in tanatas post up a ways referrring to the people of Mclean county as having 2 teeth and wearing overalls?? When my Fargo comment hits home then its not ok , but its attempted (or not) humor directed to others it is , hmmmmmm after all 8000 Mclean County citizens are not all the same....


----------



## KEN W

So I missed one slam.Yours sure looked intentional.

I'm not defending anyone.....just please keep the personal attacks out of it.


----------



## GKBassplayer

Bottom line. No matter what we say, we were in the wrong, he was out of line. A simple conversation could have prevented all this.

On a side note. Avery hooked me up on a sweet deal on a discontinued finisher. I know a lot of people complain about Avery's customer service but after this I was sure impressed.


----------



## duckp

GKBassplayer,
Your last post is right on in my view.Damn sad deal for you guys and the guy is wacko but I hope your post means you've decided to move on.Correct move I think.
Kudos to Avery for treating you right!


----------



## Pfeiferada

GKBassplayer and guys

Just wanted to drop you a line and say that I think you handled this situation very well. From the time that guy drove into the field to now, you did it right.

Good thing it wasn't me in your shoes, if he had been driving straight at me and the thought entered my mind that my life (or my buddies lives) were at risk, he would have been dead. No questions asked. If i ended up in jail, so be it. He would not have survived theatening my friends. (sorry if that's harsh, still trying to figure out how to get rid of the military training)

The scary thing about all this is it makes me think that if I'm ever in a situation like that, especially now, with hearing about how your situation, and other's situations turned out, i fear that i would be more inclined to take matters into my own hands, because I know the courts and justice system aren't going to. Anyone else think of that too?

I hope that even though you chose not to pursue charges, you at least give it the papers and media in Jamestown and let them run with it. He deserves whatever he gets.


----------



## blhunter3

Jim Trautman is a loose cannon and alot of people I talked to this weekend say it didn't suprise them.

Just goes to show that we all need to take more time and make sure what we are hunting is 100% legal.


----------



## TANATA

KEN W said:


> So I missed one slam.Yours sure looked intentional.
> 
> I'm not defending anyone.....just please keep the personal attacks out of it.


Issua done for me.


----------



## KEN W

Thanks for keeping it civil.


----------



## Steelpuck18

that is crazy! Talk about bad luck. I would think about going to court because that guy deserves some sort of penalty. He could havecslled the DNR or someone, I don't think that anyone has the right to be that wreckless towards someone else.


----------



## Bagman

Isnt Nick Simonson an attorney in VC? Would be nice to see his opinion on this matter. As far as your destroyed property is concerned...that is a small claims matter. You file...get him served...and have a hearing. ONE hearing only...not multiples. There is no JURY involved in small claims either. If the defendant doesnt show, you get a default judgment. He did this and you have the matter documented with photos as well as the sheriffs report. Cut and dried case really. File that small claims case at the very LEAST! He destroyed your property in a fit of anger and THAT is simply not allowed by law. :beer:


----------



## Uncle Omar

A lot of worthwhile conversation and information here, but also a lot of misinterpretation, misunderstanding and incorrect/uninformed statements that resemble the facts of law, but don't quite hone to the exact letter.

First off, not for even a nanosecond do I support or condone what the alleged landowner did to these hunters.

Now, I've been a farmer about as long as I've been a hunter (which is more than 50 years, if it matters). I've seen both sides of the issue of posting, trespass, property rights abuse and overreaction to relatively minor infractions.

A point Lloyd Jones would make, during his tenure as G&F director, was that the farmer/landowner (and the hunter) will remember (and repeat to anyone willing to listen) the nasty stories a lot longer than they will the good ones.

I'm perhaps a bit more aware of the differences in regulations regarding posting against hunting, versus trespass violations. I learned about these as part of my 17 years as a media scum, and by asking lawyers and G&F folks about the actual rules.

I don't feel as if I can contribute much more than has been said already, so I won't drag this out. However, it seems from the remarks that the alleged landowner reached his "snap" point at a time when he was able to catch the alleged violators.

That was unfortunate, and I sympathize with the hunters for the stress they faced, and commend them for their restraint in not choosing a violent means of reaction.

At the same time, I can understand a bit of what may cause a landowner/operator to become disgruntled with hunters (or others who access private property, and do not use good judgement in their behavior), but I will not hint that this specific alleged landowner was even remotely right in his actions.

I make every attempt to be sure that I am not on posted land, and if I can, I try to ask for permission even if the land is not posted.

That's difficult at times, but IMHO, well worth the extra effort to obtain a favorable acknowledgement of the right of access.

All things considered, I think I might find myself taking this through the Small Claims Court process. If other events subsequent to that led to further court actions (civil or criminal), then that is something I would be prepared to pursue.

I am glad that no one was injured, and I am extremely dismayed that we have people in Nodak who think they are above the law, or even above having decent manners, in their attempts to redress a grievance.

Whatever the hunters decide to do, I would hope that the essential truth is brought forth, and that this story (and others like it) is not merely allowed to fester and rot in the minds of the general public as "another slob hunter" tale.


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## malspeck

Glad to see no one was hurt and good thing no young kids were with you guys! I have an 11 and 10 yr old and someone does this I'm willing to shoot first and ask questions later, if I feel we were threatened! I mainly take the boys on PLOTS land or WPAs and we mostly pheasant hunt now!!


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## GKBassplayer

Be on the look out in the Jamestown Sun...


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