# ar15 questions



## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I think I've decided on going with a 20" upper for the rifle that I'm building, but I can't find exactly what I want, so I might have to buy something close and change out a few things. What I want is a flat top upper with a 20" sporter type barrel. I don't want a front sight on it, but all the 20" uppers with sporter type barrels that I'm finding have front sights. I will also probably want a free float handguard. I have found an upper on another sight just like this one: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?p ... ber=537768 I'm wondering how hard it would be to change the front sight out to a gas block and also what would need to be done to put replace the stock handguard with a free float handguard.

I have also found some other 20" uppers with everything that I want except they are bull barrels, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to deal with the extra weight. Can anyone comment on how much heavier the bull barrel would actually be? I'll be using the rifle for target shooting, plinking, and coyote hunting. I might want to try a prairie dog hunt sometime in the future too.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

My 16" sportical was 6.3lbs and the Sweet 16 I have now with a bull barrel is only 7.8lbs. Not much difference if you ask me. You have to look at the barrel contours. I think some are 1" some are around .936 from the gas block forward, some like the h-bars are around .750 from the gas block forward. Light weight barrels are even thinner than that forward of the gas block. Check out the AR740 20" barrel at riflebarrels.com. That is the one I am putting on my build.

I suggest you purchase your upper and all the parts including the barrel separately. That way you won't pay for more than you need and you won't have any extra parts left over. It doesn't look too tough to switch out a front sight for a gas block as long as you have the right tools. I have watched a few videos on it and it looks easy. I will soon find out how hard it really is to put a gas block on.

To replace the hand guard you have to take off the hand guards(obviously) take out the gas tube roll pin, take the gas tube out, take the sight or gas block off, take the barrel nut off, replace the barrel nut with the threaded end for the free float tube, index it correctly so the gas tube fits, put the gas tube back in, thread the tube on, and put the gas tube roll pin back in. If you use a low profile gas block you can do all that before you thread the float tube on as every thing will fit underneath it.

The bull barrel is well worth the weight. The Sportical I had sucked!! If I fired 3 rounds in less than 3 minutes it would start to heat up and I got horrible accuracy.


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## striped1 (Aug 17, 2005)

There are free floating handguards that will fit without barrell nut removal.

I would go with a heavier profile if you are dog or coyote hunting. maybe even fluting. Check with bravo company or goobal tactical supply or noveske or larue tactical if you want an upper built.


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

Check this out, you can build it any way you want and its easy.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=226782


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I think I'm going to end up placing an order with Model 1 Sales. They can build exactly what I want for around $550. The only bad thing is there is a 26-28 week wait. I'm still looking around a bit more to see if I can find anything in stock, but will more than likely be placing an order in the next week or two. I'm not going with a sporter barrel anymore tho. I've picked an hbar barrel which is thicker than a sporter so it won't heat up as fast, but its also not as heave as a bull. I handled a rifle yesterday that is pretty much exactly what I'm looking for and it didn't seem too heavy and seemed to balance pretty well.


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

If that is what you want you should go with DPMS, you can go and buy one right now with out waiting, AR parts are still months behind but you can buy a complete rifle today.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

I've really contemplated just buying a dpms 20" bull, but I just don't think I want to carry all that weight around. I think the hbar is a good compromise between a sporter barrel and a full bull barrel. I think I'm just going to have to be patient to get what I really want. I don't want to just order the bull barrel and then not be happy with and and have to take a loss to get what I actually want. If I woulda been smart, I would have done this 2 years ago when I started thinking that I wanted one. I actually already have most of what I need except for an upper and some glass.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

ac700wildcat, instead of PMing you I thought I would post here in the event anyone was curious.

I had to test the accuracy on some Swift Scirocco's out of my 300 Win Mag this morning, so I took the chronograph along and checked out Blackhills 50 gr V-Max out of a 16 inch DPMS. 
The average velocity of five shots was 3063fps.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Have you considered a FLUTED Bull Barrel? I had a DPMS Panther Bull 20 Fluted. The Fluting does take soem weight off, but with the heavy mount and 4.5x14x40mm AO Nikon Buckmaster and a Bipod mine was still heavier than I wanted. However mine was way more accurate than I was expecting it o be. 1/2" 5 shot groups from the bench at 100 yards were commonplace.

Mike Milli at Dedicated Technology actually cuts the flute larger than most factory fluted barrels, thus removing more weight. Mike says there is only about 1/2 pound difference in an 20" H-Bar than one of his Fluted 20" Bull Barrels.

For the record my 16" Bushmaster M4 ORC with my load (55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips / H-4895) chronographs 2947 FPS. Accuracy is 1/2" to 3/4" from the bench at 100 yards.

Larry


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I may switch to 55 gr soft point. First the price. If it hasn't changed you can get down to under $8 per 100 if you buy 4000 bullets. Second, the bullet drop compensation in my Nikon works perfect with 55 gr full metal or soft point out to 500 yards. 
I'm kind of torn on this because the V-Max hits much higher at 500 yards. Sure I have to compensate, but if it hits higher it has more energy for coyote. Maybe I will have to give up on the one load for everything concept. I did shoot three deer a couple years ago with the 52 gr X bullet just to try it. I have better rifles for the job, but it did a number on them.


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

Looks like I still have a lot to consider. SD, do you know how much it is to get a barrel fluted? If it ends up being only a half lb difference, I might just go with a bull and then have it fluted. I can order a DPMS 20" bull right now for $510 and have it in a few days.

Plainsman, thanks for posting the chronograph results.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

What is the twist on the bull 20 for $510?


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/mili%20Guns.htm

It says fluted barrel add $95.00 to the price of the upper. Not sure how much Mike charges if you send him a barreled upper to have the barrel fluted. There is contact info at the above link.

Larry


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## ac700wildcat (Oct 30, 2006)

Laite, the 20" bull for $510 has 1in9 twist. I'll to give dt a call and see what they charge for fluting if I sent them an upper. It looks like they can really make a bull barrel lose some weight.


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## NDWirehair (Dec 22, 2008)

Double Post.


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## NDWirehair (Dec 22, 2008)

I recently purchased a Yankee Hill Machine 20"/1:7 twist upper. As far as I know they still have some in stock and quality wise I like it over my M-4 Bushmaster. More rounds and time will tell. I don't mind spending an extra buck on quality, there are some low-end products out there, fit and finish, etc... :sniper:


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## wmmichael20 (Dec 19, 2007)

did you happen to check out white ouk armament for your upper ..they look nice but kinda pricy


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