# Did Marine murder Iraqis?



## duketter

I find this crazy. In the heat of the moment with your life on the line and serving your country.....and now he faces this.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7640703/

In a statement, Pantano told investigators the two men had their backs to him and continued talking to each other despite warnings to be quiet.

"After another time of telling them to be quiet, they quickly pivoted their bodies toward each other. They did this simultaneously, while speaking in muffled Arabic. I thought they were attacking me and I decided to fire my M-16A4 service rifle in self-defense," the statement said.


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## gandergrinder

I thought that in combat soldiers are only held responsible for the facts as they see/saw them at the time and not on what they learn after the fact. Having never been in combat myself I would have to imagine that these soldiers are under a tremendous amount of stress and to be perfectly honest I would rather have soldiers remove the threat first then to have them hesitate and end up with a flag over their coffin.

The reality is that he was in combat zone and he had to make a decision. Sometimes those decisions result in loss of life. I find it disheartening that we put soldiers in these situations and then we don't protect them but prosecute them for a split second decision where their life was in danger or they percieved it to be in danger.

Unless of course he just executed them.


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## Militant_Tiger

He probably made the wrong decision and probably didn't fear for his life at all. Odds are he saw one of his buddies get shot and wanted to take revenge. Considering the circumstances though it would be hard to charge him with anything higher than manslaughter.


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## gandergrinder

I will give you one thing Militant you are great at making assumptions for the sake of debate.

Assumptions aside. What are the rules of engagement in a combat zone. Particularly what were the rules of engagement at the time of this incident. That is the question I have. Not what were his motives.

I have no doubt that his motive was to kill. That's what Marines are trained to do if they are threatened. Even if he was not in danger but he percieved himself to be in danger than I feel he was justified in his taking of life. I will always value American life more than a person from another country. If that offends, I make no apology.


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## Militant_Tiger

An assumption for sure, but thats all we've got to go on here. Based on the way he said it, it doesn't sound like he was terribly threatened.


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## duketter

MT said: "Based on the way he said it, it doesn't sound like he was terribly threatened."

Really? If you were in that position what would you do?


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## Gohon

> Assumptions aside. What are the rules of engagement in a combat zone. Particularly what were the rules of engagement at the time of this incident. That is the question I have. Not what were his motives.


His motives were simple, to stay alive and protect his fellow marines. Any idiot that sees someone dressed in combat, carrying a rifle and is told to shut up or given any order, has no one but themselves to blame if shot while disobeying that order. The marine done exactly what he should have done. To say he probably made the wrong decision and probably didn't fear for his life at all could only come from a little kid who's only brush with combat is from computer games.


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## Bore.224

This makes me sick. I dont care why he shot them, this kinder genteler nation we are now is going to be the end of us all. The fact he is in any criminal court is one good reason I will never put on a uniform again! I dont think based on stories like this that America deserves heros like our soligers anymore. The lives of Iraqies are more important than our own soligers, thats what is being said here. I would really do this if I were commander and chief, Pull out all troups and nuke that place till it F***ing glowed. And unlike our current administration I dont give a damn what anybody thinks about that, France , Italy the U.K and yes even you!! DROP IT EXTERMONATE THEM ALL!!!! And thats how you win a war!


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## Plainsman

What disturbs me most is how often MT is willing to think it is our soldiers who are always wrong, and the enemy who is always right. Just who's side are you on MT? Also, this Iraqi that you talk to every day or so, are you sure he is on our side? This smells a little like Benedict Arnold to me.


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## Militant_Tiger

> To say he probably made the wrong decision and probably didn't fear for his life at all could only come from a little kid who's only brush with combat is from computer games.


You've been in armed combat?



> Really? If you were in that position what would you do?


If they were coming at me, I would shoot. If they turned around together, no I wouldn't have shot.



> This makes me sick. I dont care why he shot them, this kinder genteler nation we are now is going to be the end of us all. The fact he is in any criminal court is one good reason I will never put on a uniform again! I dont think based on stories like this that America deserves heros like our soligers anymore. The lives of Iraqies are more important than our own soligers, thats what is being said here. I would really do this if I were commander and chief, Pull out all troups and nuke that place till it F***ing glowed. And unlike our current administration I dont give a damn what anybody thinks about that, France , Italy the U.K and yes even you!! DROP IT EXTERMONATE THEM ALL!!!! And thats how you win a war!


Well that was quite an ignorant statement. Considering that our reason (now) for going in was to liberate these people, how is it that our soldiers lives are more important than the Iraqi lives? That isin't how you win a war, thats how you turn into a global nemesis.


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## Bore.224

Our reason now is not a good reason for war! At first our mission was to Stop a threat once that threat is stopped our mission should have ended right their, that is when my support for the war ended as well. Ignorant well if less American Moms screaming that their son is gone is ignorant than thats what I am!!


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## duketter

MT said "If they were coming at me, I would shoot. If they turned around together, no I wouldn't have shot. "

Imagine what this soldier has been through leading up to this...probably being shot at, watching his back 24/7, not understanding these guys in what they are saying, having these guys not follow his order and your life is on the line every second. You tell me you would have just stood there?  I don't think you really understand what kind of pressure and circumstances they are going through over there.


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## gandergrinder

MT,
This is what I infer from your last post.

You are upset with the current administrations handling of the war in Iraq and you feel it is justified to take it out on our soldiers.

Feel free to dislike the administration but please don't take it out on a soldier who is doing a job. A soldier doesn't make policy decisions they just put them into effect.

If you want to argue theory then I guess non of our lives are more important than anothers but I would hope you would be patriotic enough to value a US soldiers life more than an Iraqis. It doesn't make you an evil person because you value someone elses life more than another. That makes you human.


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## Militant_Tiger

I don't value one life over another, but I don't think that our soldiers should have been there in the first place.

You're damned right that I have a problem with this administration, but thats not why I think the soldier has done wrong. I believe that he probably made a wrong decision, and he needs to be held accountable.


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## Gohon

> You've been in armed combat?


YES ............... next question kid....


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## duketter

MT said "I believe that he probably made a wrong decision, and he needs to be held accountable."

Are you saying he made a wrong decision because they(Iraqis) did not follow his orders and he was scared for his life?

I have never been in combat, but I would have to say there is no time for second guesses. Your life is on the line. This isn't paintball or cops and robbers in your neighborhood when you don't actually die.

They were attempting to flee AGAIN it seems..... http://www.starnewsonline.com/assets/pdf/WM288336.PDF


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## Militant_Tiger

duketter said:


> MT said "I believe that he probably made a wrong decision, and he needs to be held accountable."
> 
> Are you saying he made a wrong decision because they(Iraqis) did not follow his orders and he was scared for his life?
> 
> I have never been in combat, but I would have to say there is no time for second guesses. Your life is on the line. This isn't paintball or cops and robbers in your neighborhood when you don't actually die.
> 
> They were attempting to flee AGAIN it seems..... http://www.starnewsonline.com/assets/pdf/WM288336.PDF


When two people turn towards me at once, I don't feel as if my life is threatened. I don't care what color they are. If they were charging him, sure. The simple fact is that he shot and he didn't have to, and thats wrong.


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## Gohon

> but I would have to say there is no time for second guesses.


Once upon a time in a far off place, we had a few young kids who tried to second guess the enemy and in most cases they were sent home in a body bag.


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## duketter

It isn't as simple as them just turning and facing him. These soldiers are being shot at probably daily and they are expected to not use any necessary force until they are dead or actually shot? Those guys were given direct orders and they would not listen. If someone was pointing a gun at you in combat, would you turn and face them and not listen to the order? If you did, would you expect them to shoot you? I would probably listen to what they are telling me.


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## gandergrinder

MT wrote,


> I don't value one life over another, but I don't think that our soldiers should have been there in the first place.


Sure you do. You value yours more than someone elses.

He maybe made a bad decision in hindsight but given the circumstance at the time he may have made the correct decision. You cannot judge a soldier in hindsight. He does not have the luxury of hindsight when he is faced with a life or death situation. I don't think you understand that MT.

Societal rules do not apply in a combat zone especially when it comes to the court room. You can only judge him by the facts leading up to the point where he shot them. All information after that point in time is irrelevant.


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## racer66

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,154635,00.html

Looks a little justice was had.


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## Militant_Tiger

Gander as stated I have accounted for his situation, and as stated I don't think he should be put to trial for anything more than manslaughter. He made a quick decision, the wrong one and killed two people needlessly.

Racer, thats a bad link


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## racer66

How so?


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## Militant_Tiger

Its a link to some islamic leader fellow, not about a guy who shot two prisoners, either that or I'm very, very tired.


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## duketter

Gander said it perfectly!

"He maybe made a bad decision in hindsight but given the circumstance at the time he may have made the correct decision. You cannot judge a soldier in hindsight. He does not have the luxury of hindsight when he is faced with a life or death situation. I don't think you understand that MT. "

Heck, what if these guys would have got away and blown up another car bomb on the side of the road killing 5 of our soldiers later on? If these guys were so innocent, why were they trying to escape and not follow orders?


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## Gohon

> He made a quick decision, the wrong one and killed two people needlessly.


You don't know that. There hasn't even been preliminary hearing completed yet let alone a trial. More facts from your school buddy that told you about the autopsy report on Schialvo.....


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## Burly1

"They turned together, and began to move toward me." He had ordered them to stop, in their native language. The Iraqi people know that they are in a war zone. They know that threatening behavior has been and will be countered with deadly force. Witness testimony, and that of Pantano indicates that he was carrying out his mission, as ordered. He is innocent of any crime. Politically correct parameters do not apply here. Whether you agree that this war is right or wrong has nothing to do with what happened. Soldiers swear an oath to follow their orders. There was a threat encountered during the mission. The threat was neutralized. It is war. Burl


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## BROWNDOG

MT You MAKE ME uke: Your no Tiger your a kitty cat


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## racer66

MT, I realize it isn't the same story, but it did pertain to some more justice that was served.


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## Militant_Tiger

In the end, he may have done right, but from what i've heard it seems like he has killed two prisoners without just cause. That is why he should go to trial, to figure out the truth. I don't know that he was wrong for fact, nor do any of you know that he was correct in his decision. I'm taking the side of human rights for now, lets see how things turn out.


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## Plainsman

MT, we try to figure out how you think and get in arguments. Let me try to explain how I think.
I look at your statements, and I think I see prejudice. Prejudice against America, and prejudice against your fellow Americans. This is why I think it: You state that you prefer take the side of human rights. Immediately I think "well so do we". I see two sides, both have rights. Both have the right to live. The American soldier confronted an enemy and gave them orders. They would not quit talking and turned, then advanced. At least this is how I hear the story, and I feel the soldier had the right to defend himself. The insurgents took actions that negated their rights.

Now my question to you is why does human rights always mean anyone but Americans? Without thinking your assumption is only the American could violate human rights. It isn't you personally, it is the liberal train of thought. Americans are in the wrong, whites are racist, conservatives are for the rich, and on and on with assumptions with no basis. All people, black and white, American and Russian, male and female, have the capacity for right and wrong, prejudice, and compassion etc. To think any other way is prejudice.

When you say your for human rights so you assume the American made the wrong decision violates the non bias, non prejudice standards you espouse to.

Throughout history Americans have always stood for people who are willing to help, who are always for the downtrodden. It is our history, and therefore I am proud to be American. I will always assume the best of our armed service men and women. It is not just a feeling of patriotism, as a matter of fact patriotism doesn't even come into the equation for me. I think of it as loyalty. Loyalty to my nation, and loyalty to my fellow Americans.

Many people who travel overseas will no tell others they are American, because they are ashamed of it. I may not tell them I am American because my parents taught me not to brag.


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## Militant_Tiger

Why do I feel that my side is superior to yours? Because based on the situation, it seems that two men turned around, he was startled and he shot.



> Now my question to you is why does human rights always mean anyone but Americans? Without thinking your assumption is only the American could violate human rights. It isn't you personally, it is the liberal train of thought. Americans are in the wrong, whites are racist, conservatives are for the rich, and on and on with assumptions with no basis. All people, black and white, American and Russian, male and female, have the capacity for right and wrong, prejudice, and compassion etc. To think any other way is prejudice.


Where you get that, I really don't know. Ill hand it to you that it sounds good though, even if it doesn't pertain to reality.


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## Burly1

MT, following the "it seems" line; Would turning quickly, and approaching a man with an M-16 trained on you, who had by the way, just told you to stop in your native language, seem to be the wrong thing to do? After reading the press reports (granted, the press is far from perfect, but they're all we have) It seems that a soldier protected himself, his men and his mission from a threat. Trying to paste "politically correct" on to a split-second, life and death situation is simply a waste of time. It is war. Burl. Endit.


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## Militant_Tiger

Burly1 said:


> MT, following the "it seems" line; Would turning quickly, and approaching a man with an M-16 trained on you, who had by the way, just told you to stop in your native language, seem to be the wrong thing to do? After reading the press reports (granted, the press is far from perfect, but they're all we have) It seems that a soldier protected himself, his men and his mission from a threat. Trying to paste "politically correct" on to a split-second, life and death situation is simply a waste of time. It is war. Burl. Endit.


Missed the part about the native language. It seems from his report that they turned around and stepped maybe a foot toawards him. If I was in his shoes I probably would have taken a step back, but I don't think I would have shot. Sure he preserved his life, but he may have taken two needlessly. Its a peciular situation, and I certainly think that it deserves a day in court.


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## zogman

I tried to refrain from a response however,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Weedhopper says 


> even if it doesn't pertain to reality.


War is flipping reality. What don't you understand about that? :eyeroll:

Weedy again 


> I'm taking the side of human rights


I think human rights do not exist in present day Iraq and have never existed. that's what we are helping them with. Also when both sides are armed and on a battlefield survival takes presidence over human rights. Why don't you take a case of your left wing human rights spew and go over there and talk them into submission. I'll pony up for the one way ticket.


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## Jiffy

"It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"...........shoot first and ask questions latter.....in that situation anyway......


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## Jiffy

You guys are getting Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy to worked up about some "punk *** kids comments".....Tiger Nuts...or whatever his screename is is working you guys over pretty good. He is sitting by his computer and just loving every minute of it. I know. I get worked up about this too but, his comments have no validity...what-so-ever.

I was in the Marine Corps and I do know a little about combat.....more than I want to.....he needs to shut the hell up and start backing our boys instead of "stiring the pot"...or smoking it...which I also think he is doing. :wink: Hey, "tiger nuts" I am always up for a "good debate"....somebody needs to put you in your place.........


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## Jiffy

Hey Tiger Nuts, I am new to this site but not "new" to sites of this nature......I have been going through different fourms and looking at posts and I have come to the conclusion that you are here for the simple purpose of causing "hate and discontent"......I will not tolerate it...there is a "new kid in town" and you need to "be taken down a notch".....you and I are going to be GOOD friends... :wink: I can tell already!!!! You will here from me again......everybody else...take care....latter!!!!!!!!!


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## Jiffy

That shoud be "Hear...not here...from me again..."


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## fox412

I think we should just all start ignoring tiger and not reply to anything he says. He just likes to stir the crap with a boat oar. He is rude and heavy handed with comments (since he can have total anonimity) that don't agree 100% with his. I for one will never post another reply to anything he says and invite others to do the same.


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## Bore.224

Off the subject let me be the first to thank Gohan for his service, and anybody else who has served in the armed forces. "Thank You"

Back to the subject, I think General Patton said it best " When you put your hand in a goo, that was your best friends face 2 seconds ago" only men that have done that should be able to juge in this case!


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## Militant_Tiger

> War is flipping reality. What don't you understand about that? :eyeroll:


We were speaking about prejudice, thanks for taking the time to actually read the thread before opening your trap.



> I think human rights do not exist in present day Iraq and have never existed. that's what we are helping them with. Also when both sides are armed and on a battlefield survival takes presidence over human rights. Why don't you take a case of your left wing human rights spew and go over there and talk them into submission. I'll pony up for the one way ticket.


I see so even though we are trying to bring them civil rights we should not respect those rights while attempting to bring it to them? Thats backwards and sets a bad example.



> Hey Tiger Nuts, I am new to this site but not "new" to sites of this nature......I have been going through different fourms and looking at posts and I have come to the conclusion that you are here for the simple purpose of causing "hate and discontent"......I will not tolerate it...there is a "new kid in town" and you need to "be taken down a notch".....you and I are going to be GOOD friends... I can tell already!!!! You will here from me again......everybody else...take care....latter!!!!!!!!!


I'm always open to new challenges, thanks for trying to threaten me though big guy. It really shows maturity you know, when instead of arguing on points you argue with your fist. I can see the corps have done wonders for your people skills.



> You guys are getting Waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy to worked up about some "punk a$$ kids comments".....Tiger Nuts...or whatever his screename is is working you guys over pretty good. He is sitting by his computer and just loving every minute of it. I know. I get worked up about this too but, his comments have no validity...what-so-ever.


I see so because I don't agree I'm stirring things up. Terribly sorry, I thought this was America.



> "It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"...........shoot first and ask questions latter.....in that situation anyway......


Sure, but you lose a lot of lives needlessly that way, more than asking questions first. I simply can't see how the fellow felt threatened enough to shoot when two unarmed men turned around at the same time. If this was cut and dry like you want to make it, it wouldn't be in the news.

Fox you are welcome to ignore me, I can see I won't be making much progress with you anyway.


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## Bore.224

WoW hear Tiger Roar :lol:


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## racer66

What could eventually happen is our soldiers getting more hesitant to shoot in fear of being prosecuted for stupid crap such as this, and in the end getting shot themselves. Increasing the more of our soldiers dead.


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## Militant_Tiger

racer66 said:


> What could eventually happen is our soldiers getting more hesitant to shoot in fear of being prosecuted for stupid crap such as this, and in the end getting shot themselves. Increasing the more of our soldiers dead.


Sure, or we could just have them shoot on sight. Its about maintaining a balance and you are going too far to the side of death for me.


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## huntin1

M_T, you really make me sick, you and all like you. You sit here in the comfort of your homes and presume to know what that soldier was going through. Two enemy combatants standing there with their back turned to an armed soldier, who is telling them in their own language not to move, and they do so anyway, in concert, if these acts in a war zone would not make you fear for your life, you are either very naive, or extremely stupid.

He should not be tried for manslaughter or anything else. He responded to a threat the way he was trained to do. I would have done the same, anyone who has ever been in a deadly force situation would have done the same. It really ****** me off when people like you sit here and second guess the actions of these men when you, yourself have never been in a situation like this, and likely never will be. Why don't you go back to playing computer games, I can only assume that you are better at that than you are at making *informed* decisions.

huntin1


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## the_rookie

MT, I doubt if you had to you would shoot someone you would try to sort it out first... Am I correct? :withstupid:

anyways if they moved when he told them not to f*ck em shootem its as simple as that but he shoudl have shot them in the leg or something instead of peppering them. Now just remember...

Imagination keeps reallity real (and for MT's new name) 
BYE, SWEET TIGER NUTZ


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## Militant_Tiger

If I had to, sure. I don't believe this fellow had to. He should have taken a step back, he freaked and took 2 lives needlessly. What if those two fellows had information that could save an American life? Is it still so insignificant?


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## Plainsman

It never was insignificant MT. Our differences are we would rather see the American soldier survive, you would rather see the Iraqi survive. It would have been best if all could have survived, but the two Iraqi robed the soldier of that alternative. I am humanitarian also, but better the innocent survive than the guilt. Time will tell if that is the case. You assume the soldier is guilty, but the truth is you have no more to go on than anyone else. You put to much faith in bubble gum rumors.


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## Militant_Tiger

There are no rumors, I'm going based strictly on what the man himself stated and the facts behind his situation. I don't believe hes guilty, I believe that he needs to go to trial to figure out that he is and I think that he has as good of a chance of being guilty as innocent. The rest of you believe that he shouldn't have to spend a day in court, be reasonable.


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## Gohon

> I'm going based strictly on what the man himself stated and the facts behind his situation.


Please cite a source where the man himself stated his reasons. I'd like to read it. Not secondhand news source, his statement.......


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## duketter

You guys. Maybe MT is right. The guy should've just stepped back and tried to reason with these two guys for his life possibly. It was already a tense situation and bullets/bombs are flying left and right more than likely. Maybe the soldier should've taken the time and said hey wait a minute. Why are you guys not obeying my order. I told you to stay there but you are moving and possibly going to jump me. I should just stand here, or take a step back, and see what they do to me. I am sure they don't plan on harming me since they are only car bombing us, shooting at us, roadside bombs, etc. If these guys were so innocent as you think they are, why do you think they won't obey his orders?

I am sure glad MT you are proud of our American soldiers. I would like to believe that you understand what they have given up, given us and the situations they are put in? I can see if the guy just goes ballistic and starts mowing down innocent people and children(yes, then he deserves court), but to defend his life when 2 hostages are not obeying his orders? You honestly think he should be charged with involuntary manslaughter in this case?


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## Plainsman

I don't believe hes guilty, I believe that he needs to go to trial to figure out that he is

Now wait a minute, you say you don't think he is guilty. Then you state that he needs to go to court so that he can figure out that he is guilty. Don't tell me you don't think he is guilty, or that there is equal chances. You just stated he needs court to figure out that he is. What kind of double talk is that?


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## zogman

> What kind of double talk is that?


LIBERAL SPEW uke: uke: uke:


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## Bobm

I would shoot two people here, if I thought they were a threat and they didn't stop approaching me after I warned them. The stress these soldiers are in, with a war where you can't tell who's out to kill you, must be unbearable. The American soldiers should all be given the benefit of the doubt and taken at their word as to what they thought was going on. If they make a mistake, too bad, mistakes happen. I would rather make that mistake than come home in a body bag. Bad things happen sometimes in situations like this.


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## racer66

Look out guys, MT is frothing at the mouth with this US soldier on trial.


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## Bore.224

If I was this soligers superior officer I would have givin him an article 15 for wasting ammunition you dont need 60 rounds. just think off all the other Iraqies you could have shot


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## Jiffy

Tiger nuts,

Read this next statement for content. I know you may have to do it a couple times ....."If you take the time to ask questions in a combat situation you will DIE!!!!!!" Do you understand this?!?!?! Now before you start "spewing" your crap, read it again......fully understand what I am saying here. It comes from unfortunate experience.

What does putting this Marine on trial say to all the other men put in this situation everyday over there?????? I'll tell you. It says "You better start asking questions before you employ your weapon." Now what does that equal......alot of dead Marines. More than we would of had if they would not of hesitated....or asked questions. I am not going to "preach" Marine Corps doctrine to you because quite frankly you probably would not understand it and more than likely dont give a damn....

I will close by saying this: Who's side are you on anyway????? I know which side I'm on.....and it seems to differ from yours. We can all be VERY thankful that we are not relying on guys like you to defend this country.....it would be overrun in 2 days......"take a step back"......"ask questions"......you crack me up!!!!!!! You would not last one day!!!!!! How does that old saying go??????.........Oh ya, "Ignorance is Bliss"... I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours in this case is just flat out wrong!!!!!!!!


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## Militant_Tiger

> Now wait a minute, you say you don't think he is guilty. Then you state that he needs to go to court so that he can figure out that he is guilty. Don't tell me you don't think he is guilty, or that there is equal chances. You just stated he needs court to figure out that he is. What kind of double talk is that?


I don't think hes guilty, I just don't know that he is innocent, and we need to go to court to find out the truth.



> Please cite a source where the man himself stated his reasons. I'd like to read it. Not secondhand news source, his statement.......


You might consider reading the whole page before forming your opinion next time.

"After another time of telling them to be quiet, they quickly pivoted their bodies toward each other. They did this simultaneously, while speaking in muffled Arabic. I thought they were attacking me and I decided to fire my M-16A4 service rifle in self-defense," the statement said.



> I am sure they don't plan on harming me since they are only car bombing us, shooting at us, roadside bombs, etc. If these guys were so innocent as you think they are, why do you think they won't obey his orders?


So by your logic any crime is equal to another eh?



> but to defend his life when 2 hostages are not obeying his orders? You honestly think he should be charged with involuntary manslaughter in this case?


I want him to prove that it was in self defense and he did not simply mow down two prisoners because he was ****** off at them. If he can, I have no qualms with him.



> The American soldiers should all be given the benefit of the doubt and taken at their word as to what they thought was going on.


You know Bob a lot of misfits end up getting sent into the military, I guess we should grant them the benifit of the doubt here when they get arrested too.


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## duketter

MT said "I want him to prove that it was in self defense and he did not simply mow down two prisoners because he was ticked off at them. If he can, I have no qualms with him. "

Are you saying every soldier then has to do this everytime someone is shot?


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## racer66

MT


> If you have not yet read/heard this story you can view it here.
> http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/ ... 245107.htm
> 
> I suspect that some of you may be expecting me to deride said Marine, and state that the harshest punishment should be inflicted upon said person for breaking internation laws of war. I will not state this however, I feel quite the opposite. It is my belief that under said conditions the Marine did what he saw as necissary to protect himself and his comrades. Being that unconventional tactics of war are being used, there will be such casualties, rightly or wrongly. I am disgusted that this man is even being put up for a trial. He did what was necissary, if anything he should get a pat on the back and a weeks rest.
> 
> Wow Mt what a change you have made.


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## Gohon

> You might consider reading the whole page before forming your opinion next time.
> 
> "After another time of telling them to be quiet, they quickly pivoted their bodies toward each other. They did this simultaneously, while speaking in muffled Arabic. I thought they were attacking me and I decided to fire my M-16A4 service rifle in self-defense," the statement said.


Sorry kid, your high school buddies might let you get by with this but not me. The above are your words on this board. You site no reference and that is what I asked for. You might learn to comprehend the question asked. Now ......... do you or do you not have a cite where I can read this marines statement on the incident. You keep repeating the words "the statement said" so you must have a transcript right.........


----------



## Militant_Tiger

duketter said:


> MT said "I want him to prove that it was in self defense and he did not simply mow down two prisoners because he was ticked off at them. If he can, I have no qualms with him. "
> 
> Are you saying every soldier then has to do this everytime someone is shot?


Only when someone is shot and whether his life was on the line is not known. If a soldier shoots an unarmed man, you bet I want it to go to trial.



> Sorry kid, your high school buddies might let you get by with this but not me. The above are your words on this board. You site no reference and that is what I asked for. You might learn to comprehend the question asked. Now ......... do you or do you not have a cite where I can read this marines statement on the incident. You keep repeating the words "the statement said" so you must have a transcript right.........


Its in the original site posted, big guy.


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## Plainsman

I am convinced MT would like to take every American soldier, and every conservative, strap them in old sparky and throw the switch. That would just make his and Timy's day.

MT have you noticed that as people grow older they see the error of their ways? Even radicals like your girl Jane Fonda.


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## racer66

MT


> I suspect that some of you may be expecting me to deride said Marine, and state that the harshest punishment should be inflicted upon said person for breaking internation laws of war. I will not state this however, I feel quite the opposite. It is my belief that under said conditions the Marine did what he saw as necissary to protect himself and his comrades. Being that unconventional tactics of war are being used, there will be such casualties, rightly or wrongly. I am disgusted that this man is even being put up for a trial. He did what was necissary, if anything he should get a pat on the back and a weeks rest.


Still no response on this statement of yours Mt.


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## Militant_Tiger

Plainsman said:


> I am convinced MT would like to take every American soldier, and every conservative, strap them in old sparky and throw the switch. That would just make his and Timy's day.
> 
> MT have you noticed that as people grow older they see the error of their ways? Even radicals like your girl Jane Fonda.


Why do you say such stupid things plainsey?

Racer what are you talking about? I made no such statement, you did.


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## Gohon

Militant_Tiger said:


> Racer what are you talking about? I made no such statement, you did.


The hell he did this is your words on this board.


> I suspect that some of you may be expecting me to deride said Marine, and state that the harshest punishment should be inflicted upon said person for breaking internation laws of war. I will not state this however, I feel quite the opposite. It is my belief that under said conditions the Marine did what he saw as necissary to protect himself and his comrades. Being that unconventional tactics of war are being used, there will be such casualties, rightly or wrongly. I am disgusted that this man is even being put up for a trial. He did what was necissary, if anything he should get a pat on the back and a weeks rest.





> Its in the original site posted, big guy.


What original site..............more fabrications.....


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## Jiffy

Gohon, you are correct.....racer did say that.......not tiger nuts.

Gohon,

You were in the military???? What branch, what time frame, what MOS????? Just wondering. :beer:


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## Militant_Tiger

Gohon said:


> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Racer what are you talking about? I made no such statement, you did.
> 
> 
> 
> The hell he did this is your words on this board.
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect that some of you may be expecting me to deride said Marine, and state that the harshest punishment should be inflicted upon said person for breaking internation laws of war. I will not state this however, I feel quite the opposite. It is my belief that under said conditions the Marine did what he saw as necissary to protect himself and his comrades. Being that unconventional tactics of war are being used, there will be such casualties, rightly or wrongly. I am disgusted that this man is even being put up for a trial. He did what was necissary, if anything he should get a pat on the back and a weeks rest.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its in the original site posted, big guy.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What original site..............more fabrications.....
Click to expand...

The site posted at the beginning of the thread, this one

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7640703/

try about 3/4 down the page.

I have less and less faith in humanity with each passing day.


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## huntin1

Militant_Tiger said:


> I have less and less faith in humanity with each passing day.


Well, you could always denounce your resident status and move somewhere else, like France maybe. You would probably be happier there :lol: :lol:

huntin1


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## racer66

Look back Little tiger, that was a quote straight out of your mouth on this forum.


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## Jiffy

Hey guys I am going to tell you all a little bit about myself......just so you all have an idea about who I am.......

huntin 1,

Good post my man.....you seem very articulate and have.....or seem to have a very "good head on you shoulders"......it is nice to see that. Your picture below your name intrigues me....did you pick it just because you thought it was cool or do you have some other meaning behind it?????

When I was in the Corps....about 10 years ago...my basic MOS was 0311 (basic rifleman.....grunt in civilian terms).....however I did "branch out" from that. I extended my training to a 8151 (Security Forces......where I went through a very good school called CQB.) CQB stands for Close Quaters Battle. Tough school to get through but very rewarding.....I learned alot....including "when and when not" to employ my weapon. I was stationed on the USS Abraham Lincoln CVN-72 where our primary mission was VBSS....(Vessel Board Search and Seizure)......after my deployment on the ship I was transfered to 3rd Bat. 5th Mar. I Co. at Camp Pendelton......Shortly thereafter, I was chosen to be part of STA plt. 3rd Bat. 5th Mar. Otherwise knowen as Scout Sniper Platton....I soon had the chance to change my MOS to a 8541.....look it up you will find out what it stands for.....I have a HOGS tooth and an SRB to back it up ....I am not shy to share it with others ......so all of you "non believers" may want to "check it at the door".........

I just thought this would bring some "validity" to my prior posts......Semper FI.....take care guys......latter!!!!!!!!!


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## racer66

Tiger you made that post on 11-16-2004 at 2:52PM. I will repost it again for you. The first time I posted it I screwed up the quote and it looked like I had wrote it but actually Tiger did.

MT


> Militant_Tiger
> guest
> 
> Joined: 22 Feb 2004
> Posts: 2207
> Location: Michigan
> Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:52 pm Post subject: Marine shoots unarmed insurgent in head
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> If you have not yet read/heard this story you can view it here.
> http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/ ... 245107.htm
> 
> I suspect that some of you may be expecting me to deride said Marine, and state that the harshest punishment should be inflicted upon said person for breaking internation laws of war. I will not state this however, I feel quite the opposite. It is my belief that under said conditions the Marine did what he saw as necissary to protect himself and his comrades. Being that unconventional tactics of war are being used, there will be such casualties, rightly or wrongly. I am disgusted that this man is even being put up for a trial. He did what was necissary, if anything he should get a pat on the back and a weeks rest.


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## Gohon

> try about 3/4 down the page.


Your basing everything on statements from contributing editor Steve Fishman. Again since you made claims that doesn't even appear in the article you cite, where is the actual statements made from the Marine that you are acting like you know so well.


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## Jiffy

Hey racer,

I dont mean to back tiger nuts but.....I dont see where he said that man....you did...I may be missing something here but I cant find it......


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## racer66

If you look back on Tigers posts back to 11-16-04 at 2:52PM, you will see where he said this. It was when the marine shot the unarmed Iraqi. I think I smell Tigers feet gettin a little hot. Hee Hee


----------



## Gohon

Jiffy said:


> Hey racer, I dont mean to back tiger nuts but.....I dont see where he said that man....you did...I may be missing something here but I cant find it......


Jiffy, MT made the statement quoted from MT in another thread. He wants everyone to think he didn't say it.

As to your question about my military service. 1962-1988, USN CWO4/Retired. Probable way before your time .....


----------



## Jiffy

Very trickey tiger nuts.....I see that we are not dealing with a novice.....I am happy to see some of my other comrades pointed out some "very" interesting "facts"......Keep trying "boy"..........I take back my comments towards racer.......tiger nuts you need help.......


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## racer66

Oh man I can't wait to hear the spin on this one, let's have it Mt.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Gohon said:


> try about 3/4 down the page.
> 
> 
> 
> Your basing everything on statements from contributing editor Steve Fishman. Again since you made claims that doesn't even appear in the article you cite, where is the actual statements made from the Marine that you are acting like you know so well.
Click to expand...

For the last time, it is a direct quote from the man who shot the two iraqis, why are you having such a hard time grasping this concept?

As to that quote, right you are I did say it. It has obviously been quite a while since I wrote it and I forgot all about it. Even so I really don't see how it applies. In the more recent case the guy had nearly complete control over the situation, with a simple step back he still would have maintained control. In the earlier situation the fellow could have easily gotten up later and killed the men with their own guns.


----------



## racer66

Nice try Mt, there's no wiggling out of that one. :lol:


----------



## Jiffy

Tiger nuts,

You know that or do you think that.....it sounds like you are assuming things....Were you there???...........I know I was not but I have been (unfortunatly) in simular situations.....do not chastise the actions of people that have to make desicions in situations such as this.......


----------



## Militant_Tiger

We have to have limits, I don't want to see people being shot needlessly, they might have information and they certainly have rights. In one situation there was control, in the other there was the posibility for a large disaster, you are comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## Jiffy

I understand that you may have to look up "chastise" in the dictionary.....so I will forgive you for this "pause" in the action......lol......grow up "boy".....you have alot to learn....it is sad that the youth of our nation has come to this.....


----------



## Gohon

> For the last time, it is a direct quote from the man who shot the two iraqis,


I don't know that and neither do you.



> As to that quote, right you are I did say it. It has obviously been quite a while since I wrote it and I forgot all about it. Even so I really don't see how it applies.


Because you didn't know anymore about that incident than you do about this one.



> In the more recent case the guy had nearly complete control over the situation, with a simple step back he still would have maintained control. In the earlier situation the fellow could have easily gotten up later and killed the men with their own guns.


Say what ............. you are more worried about a wounded guy on the floor, getting up and harming you than you have about two healthy guys turning towards you in a menacing manner. Give it up kid, you couldn't sound anymore foolish if you tried...............


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## racer66

BS Mt, you got caught in flip flop, and you can't wiggle out of this one. Go back and read through the story link again, personally I would have unloaded in both instances, but there was obviously no way of knowing 100% for sure what their intentions were in either case. Here is where a decision has to be made, kill or be killed.


----------



## Jiffy

Hey tiger nuts,

have you ever seen somebodies head get cut off.......I have seen some bad things in my days but when I witnessed that it "threw me for a loop".....thank God it was not in person....I viewed it on the net....you can find it ...that part I am sure of.

It will "turn your stomach".....What do you think those "********" think about us....do you think they are just sitting around...if that is the case you are mistaken boy.....They want to see the demise of our nation as we see it...wake up!!!!!!!!!! You have alot of living to do. Do not talk bad about the ones who let you do that......thats all!!!!!!!!!


----------



## huntin1

Jiffy, sent you a PM, RE: your question

huntin1


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> Quote:
> For the last time, it is a direct quote from the man who shot the two iraqis,
> 
> I don't know that and neither do you.


You buffoon it is a DIRECT QUOTE! How do push people like this through the education system?



> Say what ............. you are more worried about a wounded guy on the floor, getting up and harming you than you have about two healthy guys turning towards you in a menacing manner. Give it up kid, you couldn't sound anymore foolish if you tried...............


I'm worried about a fellow who no one will be keeping an eye on as opposed to two unarmed guys being pinned down by at least one armed soldier.



> BS Mt, you got caught in flip flop, and you can't wiggle out of this one. Go back and read through the story link again, personally I would have unloaded in both instances, but there was obviously no way of knowing 100% for sure what their intentions were in either case. Here is where a decision has to be made, kill or be killed.


Caught in flip flop? Its two completely different occasions, the only similarity is that they both involved an Iraqi and an American. You are comparing apples to oranges in the worst way. What if one of those Iraqis knew the site of the next car bomb and could have saved two American lives? His life isin't quite as insignificant anymore then is it?



> have you ever seen somebodies head get cut off


Yeah actually, two or three times, not in person though.



> What do you think those "********" think about us....do you think they are just sitting around...if that is the case you are mistaken boy.....They want to see the demise of our nation as we see it...wake up!!!!!!!!!! You have alot of living to do. Do not talk bad about the ones who let you do that......thats all!!!!!!!!!


Actually they want us out of their country, but you know close enough. You've rather obviously done a lot of living and I can see that it took your morals with it.


----------



## duketter

Militant_Tiger said:


> Quote:
> 
> What if one of those Iraqis knew the site of the next car bomb and could have saved two American lives? His life isin't quite as insignificant anymore then is it?
> 
> [
Click to expand...

IF, IF, IF, IF.....that is all you got to base on. What IF they would've murdered that soldier and his buddy, and then went and let off a car bomb killing 20 or more people. Then what? I guess you would probably be on here typing, why didn't that soldier just unload on them when he had the chance. What a fool, they didn't obey his orders and he just took a step back and now he is dead.

MT, maybe you should call up that soldiers parents, friends and relatives and tell them that you think he should've just stepped back. Let's say this soldier is your brother/sister/dad, would you still feel the same way or would you have said, "good, you did what you had to do cause I don't want you dead." I would sure hope so.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> IF, IF, IF, IF.....that is all you got to base on. What IF they would've murdered that soldier and his buddy, and then went and let off a car bomb killing 20 or more people. Then what? I guess you would probably be on here typing, why didn't that soldier just unload on them when he had the chance. What a fool, they didn't obey his orders and he just took a step back and now he is dead.


They turned around in unison, somehow that doesn't seem to warrant being shot to me. He could have stepped back, and if they kept comming he could have shot, instead he shot needlessly.



> MT, maybe you should call up that soldiers parents, friends and relatives and tell them that you think he should've just stepped back. Let's say this soldier is your brother/sister/dad, would you still feel the same way or would you have said, "good, you did what you had to do cause I don't want you dead." I would sure hope so.


He made a hasty move and likely a wrong choice. I don't care who he was, he handled the situation in a poor manner.


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## racer66

I'm done with this one, Mt has once again lost all of his credibility and refuses to see it. As far as the Iragi's wanting us out of the country, I'll go with the 8 million hard paper votes, people risking life and limb to get to the polls, over some poll of the Iraqi's. We all know how polls can get skewed with the way a question is asked, and with also who you ask. I'm going to post Mt's quote one more time from the incident last fall, keep in mind everybody that the Iraqi's last were wounded, the incident this spring they were not. Mt, you have hereby been dissintegrated.

Mt


> I suspect that some of you may be expecting me to deride said Marine, and state that the harshest punishment should be inflicted upon said person for breaking internation laws of war. I will not state this however, I feel quite the opposite. It is my belief that under said conditions the Marine did what he saw as necissary to protect himself and his comrades. Being that unconventional tactics of war are being used, there will be such casualties, rightly or wrongly. I am disgusted that this man is even being put up for a trial. He did what was necissary, if anything he should get a pat on the back and a weeks rest.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> As far as the Iragi's wanting us out of the country, I'll go with the 8 million hard paper votes, people risking life and limb to get to the polls, over some poll of the Iraqi's. We all know how polls can get skewed with the way a question is asked, and with also who you ask.


How does their voting have a damned thing to do with whether they want us there or not? You make such poor comparisons I don't even know what to write.

As to my comment, for the last time you are comparing apples to oranges. In one situation there was relative control, in the other there was the chance for chaos. The only similarity is that they both involved soldiers from the same sides.


----------



## Gohon

Well lets see here kid....... yesterday you called me brain dead. This morning you called me a buffoon. Got anymore little childish names you want to add to the list. I know this isn't possible for you to understand but try anyway...... just because a reporter puts quotations marks in a sentence of a story HE has written doesn't mean it is a true direct quote. It means he wants you to think that or he is trying to represent it as so. A direct quote comes from the actual statement of the Marine and you haven't seen that now have you. Again kid........ you haven't a clue.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

Gohon said:


> Well lets see here kid....... yesterday you called me brain dead. This morning you called me a buffoon. Got anymore little childish names you want to add to the list. I know this isn't possible for you to understand but try anyway...... just because a reporter puts quotations marks in a sentence of a story HE has written doesn't mean it is a true direct quote. It means he wants you to think that or he is trying to represent it as so. A direct quote comes from the actual statement of the Marine and you haven't seen that now have you. Again kid........ you haven't a clue.


If he placed it in quotataion marks and stated "said the soldier" as he did he could be sued for misrepresentation. It is a direct quote, and you still fail to recognize that. You have a thing or two to learn about respect yourself. I give respect to those who earn it, you have not.


----------



## duketter

Militant_Tiger said:


> They turned around in unison, somehow that doesn't seem to warrant being shot to me. He could have stepped back, and if they kept comming he could have shot, instead he shot needlessly.
> 
> He made a hasty move and likely a wrong choice. I don't care who he was, he handled the situation in a poor manner.
Click to expand...

I am with you racer, I am done with this thread. Isn't it weird MT how everyone on here doesn't agree with you (not only this thread)? You think that says something? I am glad you back up our troops and are proud of them. (sarcasm) To say he made a hasty move and likely a wrong choice makes me feel like you were right beside him? They did not obey his orders to stay so being shot is what happened to them. Obviously they weren't just turning around to give the guy a handshake. Why else would they disobey his orders? Probably cause THEY WANTED TO KILL HIM and flee just like they tried to do a couple minutes before this all took place!! Remember we don't all live in the fantasy world you live in where no one gets hurt or wants to hurt someone.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> Isn't it weird MT how everyone on here doesn't agree with you (not only this thread)? You think that says something?


Yes it does, that I am on a board that is dominated by conservatives and that my belief in this situation happens to be at odds with theirs.



> I am glad you back up our troops and are proud of them.


I am and I do actually, I just don't think they should be allowed to kill someone without need, its just not fair.



> To say he made a hasty move and likely a wrong choice makes me feel like you were right beside him? They did not obey his orders to stay so being shot is what happened to them. Obviously they weren't just turning around to give the guy a handshake.


True, but that doesn't mean they were planning on jumping him. That would be rather unwise to try to beat him down when he was the one with the gun. He could have distanced himself from them, if they stepped towards him a few feet then shoot, but to me it sounds like they turned around and he shot. It doesn't sound like that threatening of a situation to me.


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## racer66

Deny the facts all you want Mt, you are dead wrong and are simply trying to cover for your little boo boo.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

racer66 said:


> Deny the facts all you want Mt, you are dead wrong and are simply trying to cover for your little boo boo.


Which facts? That in one situation I had one opinion and in a completely different situation I had a different opinion? Ah yes what an awful person I am.


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## racer66

Hee Hee :beer: :sniper:


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## duketter

Militant_Tiger said:


> True, but that doesn't mean they were planning on jumping him. That would be rather unwise to try to beat him down when he was the one with the gun. .
Click to expand...

I know I said I was done but had to answer this. You think it would be unwise of them to do this you say. Don't you think it is unwise of them to do suicide bombings? They don't care if they die MT, remember that! They would have thought they would have died in vain if they could have killed that soldier. It could've been the same situation as a suicide bomer except they didn't have bombs strapped to their chests. They would have probably been killed, but they more than likely would have taken an American or two with them. I believe they would rather die killing Americans than be taken hostage. That is probably why they were disobeying his orders.

How do you fight people who don't care if they die? You have to do exactly what that soldier did to defend your life!


----------



## Militant_Tiger

So duck you basically support a take no prisoner, shoot on sight policy? That just doesn't sound very American.

As a side note, not everyone is aplicable to be a suicide bomber, I watched a program on it. They don't simply take some random fellow and strap a bomb to him, there is a lengthy training process. This probably explains why we have prisons filled with Iraqis as we speak, your argument holds no water.


----------



## Gohon

Duketter here is the quote from the article that the kid is so hung up on and thinks no reporter would misrepresent.

"After another time of telling them to be quiet, they quickly pivoted their bodies toward each other. They did this simultaneously, while speaking in muffled Arabic. I thought they were attacking me and I decided to fire my M-16A4 service rifle in self-defense,"

Now here is the quote taken from the interview the above is suppose to represent.

"I give them a command in Arabic to stop. They continue and then there was this moment of quiet. I felt, I could feel like the oxygen getting sucked out of my lungs. I could feel that this thing was happening. There was this beat and they both pivoted to me at the same time, moving towards me at the same time and, in that moment, of them, of them disobeying my command to stop and pivoting to me at the same time, I shot them."

Here is the interview in full with Stone Phillips........

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7250029/

You will note that the two had been uncufffed so they could search their own vehicle in the event it was booby trapped.


----------



## duketter

Militant_Tiger said:


> So duck you basically support a take no prisoner, shoot on sight policy? That just doesn't sound very American.


Keep trying to put words in my mouth MT. I never once said that. These prisoners did not obey his orders so he was in the right to shoot. I mentioned in a previous post that no one should be allowed to mow down innocent people and children. I NEVER said take no prisoners and shoot on sight. Since you are so keen on qoutes, re-read the soldiers qoute. He says he felt "they were attacking me." I am glad that your belief is guilty until proven innocent MT!


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## Militant_Tiger

But gohon that quote was put in the exact same context as the one that I pointed out to you. My quote you said couldn't be assured that it was actually from this accused marine, how is your any better? Just another case of a standard for each occasion.



> I NEVER said take no prisoners and shoot on sight





> Don't you think it is unwise of them to do suicide bombings? They don't care if they die MT, remember that! They would have thought they would have died in vain if they could have killed that soldier. It could've been the same situation as a suicide bomer except they didn't have bombs strapped to their chests. They would have probably been killed, but they more than likely would have taken an American or two with them. I believe they would rather die killing Americans than be taken hostage.


I don't think I put words in your mouth, I think you put your foot in your mouth.



> I am glad that your belief is guilty until proven innocent MT!


Not at all, I don't know if he is guilty or innocent, thats why I want to take it to court. Apparently trying to find the truth makes me a bad guy.


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## Burly1

No MT, killing people with no need is not fair. Much of life, you will find, is not fair. Suicide bombers and IED's are not fair. Fair and equitable behavior is not and never will be a part of war. What is fair, is that idealists such as yourself have the right to state an opinion as do all people who call our great country home. As for growing up, your opinion's are more mature than many of those posting here. I read pretty well for an old man, and it's not too tough to see maturity, or lack of it, as I read through these repetetive posts. When you all can continue a dialog without resorting to needless name calling and macho cyberspace innuendo's, (oh yeah, you're all tough guys, sitting in front of a keyboard in your dark little basement room) then you might garner a little credibility. Burl
[/quote]


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## Gohon

> But gohon that quote was put in the exact same context as the one that I pointed out to you. My quote you said couldn't be assured that it was actually from this accused marine, how is your any better? Just another case of a standard for each occasion.


A quote is suppose to be exact, word for word. Not rephrased to represent what the writer thinks is in context. When the writer rearranges the words or leaves words out of a sentence, it is no longer a quote regardless of the quotation words. There is only one standard...............


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## racer66

Let's let it go guys, Mt has once again proved what kind of a person he is for everybody to see on this board. This subject is worn out and Mt has been proven wrong, let's move on to something else. By the way Mt, how long does it take to strap a bomb on a kid and send on his way, I'll bet it sure is lengthy.


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## Militant_Tiger

> A quote is suppose to be exact, word for word. Not rephrased to represent what the writer thinks is in context. When the writer rearranges the words or leaves words out of a sentence, it is no longer a quote regardless of the quotation words. There is only one standard...............


You can't grasp the concept that he did multiple interviews? Come on Gohon think before you post.



> This subject is worn out and Mt has been proven wrong, let's move on to something else.


You still believe that two differing opinions on two differing matters is bad? Come on man wake up, this is a disgrace.


----------



## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

If hooking up a terrorist balls to a car battery saves one U.S. citizen's life then all I can say is: RED is positive and Black is negitive! :beer:


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## Gohon

> You can't grasp the concept that he did multiple interviews? Come on Gohon think before you post.


Really ....... :laugh: but you claimed that what you referenced was a direct quote but as we all now know it wasn't. Now I've give you the entire conversation with Stone Phillips where your fake quote came from so how about you give us another link with the entire conversation with one of these multiple interviews you claim took place. Well what will it be, a link or an excuse........... Racer66 is right, you're well done in this thread.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Really ....... but you claimed that what you referenced was a direct quote but as we all now know it wasn't. Now I've give you the entire conversation with Stone Phillips where your fake quote came from so how about you give us another link with the entire conversation with one of these multiple interviews you claim took place. Well what will it be, a link or an excuse........... Racer66 is right, you're well done in this thread.


It was a direct quote, from a seperate interview. Did you finish high school?


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## Gohon

[quoteIt was a direct quote, from a seperate interview. Did you finish high school?[/quote]

That's what I thought, another lame excuse to try and cover a lie. Don't you get tired kid having to cover your lies. BTW kid, the fake quote you used as a reference directs you to the page of the interview I listed for you. In other words the interview with Stone Phillips is linked to the article that you tried to use as a direct quote. That's why the writer of your little quote is proven to have not actually done a direct quote. Confusing to you I know but will you never learn. Now, show us one of the other interviews ......... oops ........ you can't huh. :laugh: :laugh:


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## Plainsman

Well, I can see no direction but down hill from here. I think you guys will forgive me for locking this thread, because I think you are all tired of it also.


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