# Force Breaking---When do you go this route?



## WillKeithK (Jun 26, 2007)

I have an almost 10 month old black Lab puppy that refuses to bring training bumper all the way to me. She literally brings it to about 1 ft from me and drops it. I did not try to break her of this as it was not really that far. Recently she has been dropping them alot further. I hunt in the Southeast Texas marsh and 10 yards might as well be 50 for the muck you have to walk through. I have trained dogs before but have never had to force break one. I guess I have been lucky thus far. I have also noticed that while she is not rough with the bumpers, when I use canvas trainers I can see defined teeth marks. I realize that this is probably my fault as I did not correct the problem early. If I force fetch her will it affect her willingness to retrieve and at one point do I need to do this(Am I already too late?). She is always excited to retrieve and releases bumpers on command, outside of this issue I believe I have the makings of a fine hunting companion. Any advice appreciated.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

When they start asserting their independence, it's time to train them. Usually between 6-8 months. Forcing in no way diminishes there retrieving desire, in fact most of the time it increases it.


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

I agree with gonehuntin, I would also recommend Evan Grahams SmartWork Basic Handling DVD!!! You can see it at the link below.


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## tom sawyer (Feb 1, 2006)

My dog was/is a pretty hyper pup so I waited until she was close to a year before I had her force-fetched. In retrospect I think I might as well have had it done at 8 months like my trainer usually wants. I had bought Evan Graham's materials and they are good, but I chickened out and had her FFed by the local trainer. Good thing, because it turns out she's as stubborn as they come. In any case, it made a WORLD of difference in her performance. Best $450 I ever spent, even though he basically declared her to be one of the worst dogs he'd ever worked. See my post above with the update on that.

I have a couple of freinds with dogs, we worked them together just the other day. One guy had his dog FFed by the same pro I used, the other doesn't have the money for it. The unforced dog, dropped the bumper every time she came out of the water. Our dogs brought them and only released to hand as they were taught.


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

You should have no concerns about the retrieving desire leaving. Like mentioned before most people note a stronger desire to retrieve after force breaking. I was under the understanding that most FF'd after a dogs adult teeth were fully in and basic OB was solid.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Hopefully this won't turn into one of those "FF or not FF" threads, as they often get ugly & stupid...

As far as I'm concerned, I FF and CC my pups as soon as their adult teeth are in, about 6 months old, and always will. This does several things...

Up until this point, the pup is retrieving because it's a game it likes to play; if it doesn't feel like doing it or gets bored, it quits. FF changes retrieving from a game that's played when the pup feels like it, to an enjoyable task to be done every time, on your command.

FF/CC teach the pup about training pressure and how to turn it off by completing the required task as quickly as possible.

FF/CC gives you tools to correct any refusals in the future.

I will add that my program is 10 Minute Retriever through the first 6 months, then Smartwork/Smartfetch until the pup is Finished. The pup's OB must be rock solid before beginning FF/CC.

after completing FF/CC, most pups have even more drive and desire to work & train than before...

You didn't


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