# Ritalin, lets drug our kids



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

There is a bill coming up for a vote in the Senate next week that every parent who, for some reason, still sends their children to government schools needs to pay attention to. The bill would fund grants to implement mandatory mental health screening for almost 60 million children, pregnant women and adults through schools in pre-schools. So what's wrong with that?

It sounds so good, doesn't it? "Mental health screening"....seems like a noble idea. But here's why this is extremely dangerous: the government is going to be doing it, and it will be mandatory. *The result will be the continued drugging of children, as mental health professionals will determine that kids need treatment. Again, all of this will be done behind the parents' backs. After all, they couldn't possibly know what is best for their children...only big brother can determine that.* :eyeroll: 
What's the point of mental health screening in the first place? To determine who is mentally healthy? Why would you do that? The only reason you would do mental health screening is to look for problems...problems that would be treated by drugging more children with Ritalin. It's much easier to teach a class of school children that are drugged into submission, you know. :eyeroll:

*What did people do before Ritalin was invented? It was called parenting. *Unfortunately, the White House backs this disastrous scheme. Be sure to call or write your Senator and tell them not to support mandatory mental health screening.

A quick question. If the government can require mandatory mental health screening for your children ... how long will it be before the government can require mandatory mental health screening of all adults? When will you get your notice to turn up for your testing? Will you refuse? What happens if you refuse? Will various government benefits be withheld if you don't report to your local government mental health screening center for your testing?

Are you even willing to think about these things?


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## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

I Europe and Canada they are finding a huge link of food allergys and behavior problems. I was reading one study from england that with further testing more than 70% of childeren who were on various drugs for behaivor were found to have sever food allergies, and when cut out of thier diet, 4-5 weeks, most if not all roblems were solved. When you have a food allergy that is very bad, but since you have had it in your diet for most of your life, you don't react by going into shutdown mode, your body makes lots and lots of adrinlin and histamines (my spelling sucks) and guess what, behavior is wacko due to this. My son who we were just about going crazy over and just could not drug was found to have a very bad wheat and glution allergy. After we developed a menue that would still be healthy, but avoid foods that would effect his behavior, he was a great fun to be with person. If he gets just a little bit of food that he can't eat, we notice a very much differant person. This I feel is more of an issur than most people think. We tend to treat the symptoms not the cause of the problems in our country.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

If I'm not mistaken ritalin was created before ADD was discovered, the came up with a disease to fit the drug, sad stuff.


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

Bob, while I commend you for your concern you certainly must know your wrong about this. Afterall MT is agreeing with you. Prior to the days of methylphenidate, (ritalin) the dropout rate was very high, kids in high schools were lumped into achievers, underachievers and troublemakers. Since the discovery of ADHD and the many many studies that have shown us that medications help the education bar has been elevated.

With that said Of course we have many kids misdiagnosed and treated because no parent wants to believe there kid is inherently bad. Parenting is lacking in some but many are truely affected by the ADHD. When the proper research and diagnostic procedures are followed so an correct diagnosis can be made the effects of proper treatment can be amazing.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

The problem isint that the drug doesnt work when administered to the correct people, its that the drug is handed out like candy, a cure all, brighto.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Bob,MT do either of you have any experience with a child with ADHD? Do either of you know that teachers more often than not are the ones most likely to notice this affliction? Have either of you had a child go from failing to A's once diagnosed and treated?

For every child that becomes something because of this drug, it is a win for society as a whole, because most would end up being nonproductive and a cost to tax payers overall.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I have known many, many kids with add, and the only thing ritalin did for them was sedate them slightly, it did nothing for their already poor grades.


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

MT are you trained in medical matters? Do you have a Medical license and a DEA number? I do. I've known lots of kids with ADD that ritalin didn't help you say. How many? was it a double blind study with placebo? I don't think so. You show your youth and ingnorance when you base your expertise on hearsay. Ritalin has a place in medicine just like Chemotherapy in cancer treatment. But I suppose you know lots of people that died inspite of the treatment so it must be all bad.

Also Ritalin is a schedule II drug as mandated by the DEA. Prescriptions are tracked and any practioner felt to over prescribe gets investigated. Another hole in your theory is Ritalin is a stimulant that helps people with ADHD concentrate. Side effects are lack of sleep, weight loss and hypersensation. If you know kids that are taking ritalin and are sedated chances are they are not taking ritalin.

Now please quit interjecting your uninformed, uneducated opinion into medical matters. A large part of my day is dispelling myths of the public so patients will take my advice regarding their medical condition. These myths are spread just like this.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"I don't think so. You show your youth and ingnorance when you base your expertise on hearsay. Ritalin has a place in medicine just like Chemotherapy in cancer treatment. But I suppose you know lots of people that died inspite of the treatment so it must be all bad. "

They dont hand out chemotherapy like pez either. Like I said ritalin has its uses but it is used as a cure all. Your kid is too jumpy? ritalin! You dont have time to teach your kid to quiet down and pay attention? RITALIN!


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Thanks Swift! We did the double blind study with our daughter. We make sure her dosage is monitored by her doctor and it has made a world of difference for her.

She is bright and articulate and without this help she is a frustrated and failing student. I look back at a number of people that have started using this as adults. Many for the first time have been able to hold steady employment and are bettering themselves and their family. A number of them where labeled lazy or unmotivated or lacking of character. Yet with a simple daily pill they are now living a better quality of life and so are the people they affect on a daily basis!

Tobacco and alcohol do more damage than this will. So why not seek the same intolerance for them as some here seem to want!


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## Chris Benson (Apr 3, 2004)

I have to agree with swift, Ritalin has it's place. I work as a Teacher's Aid in a local junior high school and in addition to that work as a Respite worker (Big brother type of program for mental and phyical disabled youth) in the evenings.

I've seen kids who on any given day would pick up a chair and throw it through a window because some little thing went wrong. Or another kid who would scream, yell and attack another kid because he looked at them the wrong way. These aren't "bad" kids, they know what they are doing is wrong, They just can't help it. Drugs like Ritalin help these kids to think clearly and focus.


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## Niles Short (Mar 18, 2004)

if i am not mistaken as speaking about any prescribed drug, the parent has to okay it and authorize the school to administer it


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Ron I did have experience with it and I believe its BS, my daughter was "selected" by the morons in public school for this drugging and I knew that she was fine and just bored with their dumbed down curriculum so I pulled her (and the rest of my kids) out of public school an into a challenging private catholic school. The problem ended instantly, and she is now pLanning to enter med school at Emory Univeristy after consistantly being one of the top few students in her class!

*In short ... ADHD is a fraud. It's a creation of the psychiatric-pharmaceutical cartel*. Those are the thoughts of Fred Baughman Jr., MD.

"They made a list of the most common symptoms of emotional discomfiture of children; those which bother teachers and parents most, and in a stroke that could not be more devoid of science or Hippocratic motive--termed them a 'disease.' Twenty five years of research, not deserving of the term 'research.,' has failed to validate ADD/ADHD as a disease. Tragically--the "epidemic" having grown from 500 thousand in 1985 to between 5 and 7 million today--this remains the state of the 'science' of ADHD."

Here's the website for Baughman. Yes - I know that I am infuriating parents out there who actually feel that they're doing the right thing by drugging their children in order to change their behavior ... but I hope that every time I bring this up at least one parent out there steps back a bit to actually think about what they are doing ... and perhaps one kid is saved from these dangerous and addictive drugs. Certain job categories will not allow anyone that ever was on this drug to work for them because of concerns of the long term effects on their brains.
http://www.adhdfraud.com


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

swift said:


> Another hole in your theory is Ritalin is a stimulant that helps people with ADHD concentrate. Side effects are lack of sleep, weight loss and hypersensation. If you know kids that are taking ritalin and are sedated chances are they are not taking ritalin.


Swift, I have a question then. I know that ADHD is a stimulant and its effect on "hyperactive" children is that it stimulates or raises their attention span, right? So, in effect the difference you see on one hand, a hyperactive child who cannot concentrate, and on the other a medicated child who is "calm" and attentive. Is MT so far off when he says the kids look "sedated?" with respect to how they are without the medicine? I'm not sure if I have my thoughts clear on this as Abnormal Psychology class was quite a while ago.
I also remember reading that you can substitute a dose or two of Ritalin by letting your child drink a couple of mountain dews in a row. The caffeine acts sort of the same way I believe. Interesting.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Outside of Chris...none of you work with kids who have ADHD.I am a Special Education teacher and have been doing it for 31 years.

Take it from me and it's not because I want the easy way out...Ritalin has it's place.Sure there might be some that are mis-diagnosed...but you would be amazed at the difference it can make.Most of these kids can't help it and a lot of them really want to learn.

Most ADHD is hyper-active...these kids taking Ritalin DO NOT LOOK DOPED UP

For those of you who don't know Ritalin is also used for hypo-active kids...these are kids that stare into space,get nothing done at all.

Their bodies are missing the chemical needed to concentrate.Ritalin provides that chemical.The big thing is getting the right dosage.Doctors have to guess at first and make adjustments to get it right.Yes if too much is administered the kid will look doped up...but parents and teachers will see this immediately and reccommend changes in the dosage.

You should really come to my classroom and see the difference between a kid who remembers to take his medication and then forgets the next day.

I have always felt a parent who refuses to use medication to help their child should have to come and sit next to their kid every day.


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## Niles Short (Mar 18, 2004)

at least those "morons in public schools" are required to have teaching degrees


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

This is one of those bombshell discussions.

Alot of the comments have been hearsay, alot on fact.

ADHD I think is a concocted "mental health" issue. Why do I say that? Because I have a step son who was "diagnosed" with it and my wife who has a licensed daycare has 2 kids who are "diagnosed" with it.

ADHD I believe is a result of the new babysitters, "read" that as your X-box, nintendo, playstation, or whatever you may have for entertainment, Satelitee or Cable, take your pick.

While our children are more than capable to "fly" by remote more aircraft than we will ever THINK of flying, they cannot grasp reality. Why does a leaf change color. How do you make a soap box derby car. Much less, WHAT is a soap box. Kids come to our house (10-13) every day and the first thing out of their mouth, "Can we Watch TV?" "No, get your coats on, your going outside." This fall I built a garage. The kids got a chance to watch and somewhat limited and controlled, were able to help. By the time I got done, I thought I was going to have to buy each of them a hammer and wood to so they could make stuff on their own.

I have a couple that want to make bird houses, wood projects, what ever. Once I get the garage finished we are discussing that option.

These are the SAME kids that have "ADHD" or are so hyper, they can't watch 5 minutes of TV without jumping on the furniture and breaking it. Yes I have a sleeper/sofa I have to replace because kids get so excited about the stupid stuff they show on TV.

For the "special ed" teachers. Think about it, when you have a child that needs attention, what is really going on, I was "labeled" as a problem child. I would complete my home work, or NOT do it because I was BORED. we have a unique ability to be thinking of step 8 and doing step 5 before you have even THOUGHT of Step 2.

Yes, there are children that are really special needs, but not at the rate people are trying say there is now.

The fact is, the moment we kick them OUT of the house and into the yard, the playground or to have PHYSICAL activity, their behavior and interaction becomes realistic and mangageable, they are not, dopey, HYPER or HYPO active. They are kids, exploring the world and learning why worms collect UNDER plywood, what it's like to watch a squirrel in the back yard and HOW to use a squirrel call to get it from the neighbors yard to yours.

Call it WHAT you want, but ADHD is BAD parenting, it is not giving the attention to the kids that they need because they have to figure out how to afford two $500 car payments, a $800 house payment and the boat, the ATF and all the other toy payments they have. All you need is a roof and shelter and a place to call home. Mom said it best when we were looking at buying a 2000 SF home, My wife asked, "what would we do with it all?" My mom said, "Clean."

It's called, "Being a family" and doing things together. To bad it took me 12 years of marriage, 10 years of fatherhood and an overseas deployment to see it.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Ken, I don't doubt a bit that it has its place and helps some children, I also think its overprescribed as the easy way out in many instances. The only three kids I've been around that were recommended for the drug were all smart kids that were acting out because of a lack of mental stimulation. All of them did fine in a private school environment. Thats the problem I have for it. 
I have a child in special ed in a public school and thats one of the areas that public schools excel, they have really helped her and I'm greatful beyond words. The private Catholic school had no curriculum for that type of child. 
Kudos to Ken and anyone else that does that work I know its got to be tuff. :beer:

I just feel that this decision to drug your kid should be the last resort if and only if other things are tried first. I also admit many folks don't have the options I've had because of the cost of private schooling and tutors but that gets into school vouchers, I guess.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

We should stick to hunting on a hunting website and leave the rest to the experts. This is one of the more stupid posts that I have seen on this website. I don't have time for this foolishnesss. I think I will go hunting!!!


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Does the title of this forum mean anything to you?


> Open Forum
> "A place to talk about everthing"


Go hunting......


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Bob, I can see why your North Dakota hunting experience was a total failure. You keep stirring the pot. Keep stirring and stirring and stirring....


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

My trip to North Dakota was a great success, and I had a great time. Although your buddies in the outfitting business are doing their best to destroy that for all of us, and thats the real reason you bust my chops when you can. 
As for stirring the pot at least the rest of us have the brains to stir with :lol: :wink: .

I thought you were going to go hunting...so you wouldn't have to subject yourself to our stupid conversations. Go call your outfitter buddies I'm sure they have some recently posted land they'll will let you hunt ( for a reasonable fee :eyeroll: )


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Sorry, Bob, don't have any outfitter buddies, Bob, only friends.


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## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

MT and Bob, unfortunatly there are no cure alls for any illness. When used appropriatly it is a very good drug. Just like Lipitor is for cholesterol. Day in and day out I try to convince patients of the benefits of certain medications. You can surf the web and find someone claiming something about almost anything. The irritating part for me is so many lay people speak about the topics like they are speaking facts. I could speak of the downfalls of Britanny spaniels and how I knew a bad one once so I am an expert. But I know better than that. ADHD is a bonafide condition that when subjectively and objectively is diagnosed can be helped. ADHD is much better understood today than it was 10-15 years ago. There are providers that will throw medications at conditions just to placate the patient or family members. If you feel this is occurring choose another provider. BUT, when you get the same answer from several consider maybe you are the one wrong. Thats the hardest thing of all to do admit your wrong.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> There are providers that will throw medications at conditions just to placate the patient or family members. If you feel this is occurring choose another provider


.

The school recommended it, I knew they were nuts in my childs case because I knew my kid and there wasn't any behavior problems at home.
My suspicions were correct which was proven by the way she thrived in the private school with the challenging curriculum.

As for me being wrong that happens all the time ( I hated to admit that :lol: ) but the possibility exists that they are diagnosing the ADHD when they are often wrong as well. I don't claim to be any expert on this I just think in far too many cases its a diagnosis of convience and no one show follow the advice to drug their kid without thoroughly checking out every alternative.
In fact doctors misdiagnose things all the time their only human, and any important diagnosis should be researched and second opinions should be had.
My doctor wanted to put me on Liptor because my cholesteral was about 250 I told him no I tried modifying my diet, went on the Atkins Diet and it dropped to 170 he was happy and surprised with the results. I guess I'm just not to keen on drugs in general because they all have some side affect, so if there another possibility I try it first and resort to the drug last.


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