# What Breeds do u suggestion??



## Dakota Lady

what kind breed do u recommend to have for upland and waterfowl?? something that will hunt all kinds. I know that labs would hunt for waterfowl, and get tired out on upland. I know some upland hunting dogs last longer on upland but cant do waterfowl. So would like to find a breed that can do both upland and waterfowl. so i dont have to end up with too many dogs for too many different reasons.
Any Suggestions?? but can lab still do upland??? :sniper:


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## kgpcr

I just bought a pointing lab a year ago and could not be happier. I have not hunted her on waterfowl as i dont hunt ducks that much any more but she is a great pheasant dog. If you are looking for a do it all dog a pointing lab is hard to beat!!


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## twopopper

I have a 1/2 yellow lab, 1/2 viszla and she loves to hunt both waterfowl and upland.


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## R y a n

If you are looking for the best combo dog, you can't go wrong with a Springer Spaniel. They'll never tire out, will work all kinds of hunting scenarios, love water more than labs, and are great to train.

You really can't beat them. Just make sure you get one from a proven bloodline and you are golden.

Ryan


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## kgpcr

Ryan no offense but i dont think fish like water more than labs! Springers are great dogs but just not nearly the water dogs labs are. they also cant take the cold like a lab. If you want a dog to dig the roosters out of the cattails then a lab is your ticket.


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## gonehuntin'

A lab would probably be my first choice. They will not wear out in the uplands; they hit a speed and hold it once they settle in. My 2nd choice wiould be a Drahthaar or Wirehair. I currently have a Draht and love her. It I were hunting uplands the most, I'd go with the Draht or Wirehair. If duck and geese were primary and upland secondary, the Lab.


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## CrashinKona

I am happy with my four year old female chocolate lab. I cant wear her out on upland, and if she sees water she is even happier.. Then i went and picked up a GWP.. well that boy runs like the wind, faster then my lab for the long runs but my lab out runs him to 200 yards. I would have to say its all in their conditioning and what they grow up loving to do. When my lab Kona gets in the water she smiles.. My GWP doesnt like to get wet. other then the garden hose. If i had to pick, i would Keep my lab.
Wish i could get pics posted.. I would love to show you my Lab and my two GWPs. :beer:


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## NDTerminator

Is there any other breed than a Lab?...


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## hunter9494

if i lived up north, i would probably favor a lab also. extreme cold is hard on a lot of other breeds, especially water work.


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## Dakota Lady

hmm........So thats the only good breed to have is the pointer lab??..... no other kind dogs?......hm......its going to be hard to find pointer lab around. Cuz i have always seen cocker spinels, other kinds........


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## duckcommand

I would go with a Chesapeake Bay Retriever. Hardest working dog around. Can handle extreme cold better than most dogs. I have one and by buddy has one and they are both great at waterfowl and upland. You won't be disappointed.


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## Fosse

Any lab that is sired by FC-AFC Crow Rivers Cougar's Mad Max. This guy kicks out great pups for all hunting and HT/Field trial needs.


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## Bobm

The first question she needs to answer is what her experience is training dogs and does she want a pup or a trained dog. Does she duck hunt all the time or just a couple times a year.

My point is you need to really consider what exactly you plan to do and how much of each upland vs ducks to get a sensible answer about breed choice.

Labs a great all around dogs but they are not the best choice if 90% of your hunting is pheasants, however if most of your hunting is ducks and just the occasion upland then labs rule.

Labs do well upland in cold weather and in cattails, they dont handle heat very well upland compared to continental versatiles like GSPs and wirehairs. Wirehairs are very popular in ND and there is probably a good reason for that.


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## jgat

I guess I'm the first to bring up a Golden Retriever. Your best hunting buddy out in the field, and your best friend when you're at home. Nothing beats the personality of a Golden! Ooh yah, and they hunt just as hard as any lab out there too.


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## CrashinKona

also keep in mind how high strung some of the breeds are..


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## scott

I have to say I am very partial to golden retrievers too. They are such loyal fun loving dogs. If you go that route make sure you buy from hunting lines. They are a very popular breed and poor breeding has taken away hunting instict in some lines. Like I said if you go that route do a little homework and buy a pup with good field lines.


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## USAlx50

jgat said:


> Ooh yah, and they hunt just as hard as any lab out there too.


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## BROWNDOG

USAlx50 said:


> jgat said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh yah, and they hunt just as hard as any lab out there too.
Click to expand...

Some do--------Most don't I myself would never take that chance on owning one. And have trained with alot of them.... I myself will take a WELL bred FIELD LAB (BLACK) anyday over ALL retriever breeds. I have 1 choc. female 1 cocker 1 Black male and as the saying goes...............once you go ....................... you never go back.............................. :beer:


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## scissorbill

BD,
A lab is a lab, the color of the coat means nothing. Yellow,chocolate,black all the same dog.


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## Dooger73

sbill - maybe, maybe not. I'm not a lab man, so I have no stake in this argument, but it's statistically true that blacks have taken more field titles than chocolates or yellows. Not sure where I saw those stats - I'll have to look for them again.

I also talked with a search & rescue guy in MT a couple years ago. They only use chocolates because they tend to be more persistent (or 'psycho', as he put it) in searches when other dogs lose interest and move on. I think each color has it's own niche.


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## jgat

You can laugh all you want. Most of my friends have labs, and my Golden keeps up with them all day long whether pheasant, goose, or duck hunting. Just be sure to do your homework and buy a Golden from a reputable breeder. Believe me, they are'nt cheap!


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## hunter9494

there are some good ones out there, but as you said, they are expensive because a really good one IS hard to find, thanks to all the soccer Moms who have bred them for show.


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## USAlx50

jgat said:


> You can laugh all you want. Most of my friends have labs, and my Golden keeps up with them all day long whether pheasant, goose, or duck hunting. Just be sure to do your homework and buy a Golden from a reputable breeder. Believe me, they are'nt cheap!


Thats a great looking dog!

I'm just joshing with ya.. I know theres good goldens out there, I grew up with a golden and thought they were the best breed around. In all seriousness though the ones Ive seen in training (even the good ones) Just didn't have what the good labs did. I'm sure they are out there though.

Black is the dominant trait in labs, thus its easier to find top notch blacks. Somewhere back in the line of choc.s They were bred for color and thus they are harder to find good ones.


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## jwdinius1

without reading anyone elses i would defineatley go with a lab. a lab getting tired? that depens on the shaoe itis in, i take mine for a mile in the morning, a mile at night and a training session at about 3 and he handles them all well, i have taken him over 4 miles on upland birds and he was only 8 months when he did that. too say labs get tired out is just not true, if u put the time into getting them in shape, u cant beat them also so many lab owners over feed them, a male lab i suppose to be between 60 and 80 lbs were seeing so many 100 lbs labs its crazy imo.. also ther are great arounf kids and can longe around th house all day if u want, only negative is than can chew everytjing in sight.


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## jwdinius1

oh yeah sisscor bill is right, a lab is a lab is a lab, two choc. can mate and have 3 blacks 3 yellows and 3 chocs. all this attitude, behavior is bull****! it's in the pedigree, the genes whoever the parents are thats the predictor.it absolutly ****** me off when people ask if my dog will bite cuz choc. tend to be meaner. bull****!! u met one mean choc lab now all of them are!! again a LAB IS A LAB IS A LAB!!!!


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## scissorbill

dooger,
you do not have a clue and neither does you friend. That is absolute nonsense. Jwd is correct, 2blacks can have a litter of all yellows etc. Labs are great all around dogs as are goldens. Ive never seen a lab or a golden that were not just great people/kid dogs provided they were not abused. I.E the owner had as many working brain cells as did the dog but sadly that is not always true.


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## USAlx50

Correct me If I'm wrong here... 2 blacks can have a litter of all yellows but 2 different blacks could also not be factored in yellow and and only have blacks. My choc came from an all choc litter.

Black being the dominant color = them not being bred based on colors like other labs.. So yes, a lab is a lab but your chances of having a dog bred based on color vs. ability are going to be different for black vs choc. and yellows.


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## gonehuntin'

I guess Dakota Lady is hanging tough on what she wants to hunt the most and when she'll be hunting it.

My take on Golden's: They are great dogs and there are many very good Golden breeders out there now. Buy from good field trial bloodlines. Be aware, of all the retrieving breeds, a Golden is the worst bitter. When trainers are comparing scar's, they're Golden's scars. It's not that they're mean, it's just that of all the retrieving breeds including the Chessie, they are the MOST likely to bite.

Lab colors. Your best chance of getting a great lab is with a black lab. There are just more of them than there are yellows or chocolates. If you doubt this, look at what has won the Nationals, Amature and Open. By a huge, huge, margin. I think there have only been two or three chocolate champions and maybe a half dozen, if that, yellows. Only a couple of goldens's. If you want a great dog, and if you go by statistics, you will buy a black male lab from the finest breeding in the country. Pay the money now and save it later.


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## hunter9494

labs and goldens are 2 breeds that seldom bite. 
fact, 90% of dog bites are due to fear in the dog.


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## BROWNDOG

The only true way tell what color a lab will throw is by a DNA test. There have been some great yellows a few great choc. but many more great Black labs, it is a numbers game and as GH has said if your going to put your money in the best pot put in the best all black breeding you can afford.

I have seen some good goldens but very few great ones, love the breed but would never put my money down on on. I don't care how you crunch the numbers, any competition or retrieving test is always ruled by labs, of the darkest color.

AS GH said if you are looking for a good golden buy from proven stock, and you will pay much more for a GOOD golden breeding than you will for a GREAT lab breeding.

A lab is a lab is a lab is nonsence color and pedigree matter.....

I have seen a lab that had aggresive traits, fear aggresion towards strangers and other dogs (I owned one, and sold him) and trusty me he was not abused, slept on the bed next to me for 1 year, he was the most loving dog I have ever had except when it came to strangers and I didn't want that risk. The new owner loves him and likes his protective behavior.

What is the best breed???? That question can only be answered by the buyer.....


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## gonehuntin'

hunter9494 said:


> labs and goldens are 2 breeds that seldom bite.
> fact, 90% of dog bites are due to fear in the dog.


You really have a lot to learn hunter. *ANY* dog will bite if enough pressure is put on it; I wouldn't think much of one that didn't. During force, nearly all dog's try to nip at some time if it's being done right. When you're training a dog, you're not dealing with a fear biter; it's a bite from pain or resentment. Golden's are incredibly intelligent dogs. If you hit a lab or a chessie with a quirt, he'll bite the quirt. Hit a golden with a quirt and he'll bite you. There is also a big difference between a nip and an agressive bite. I trained one dog, and made a FC out of him that was so mean you had to carry a garbage can lid to fend him off with. You trained him with a lawn chair folded between him and you. He was a horrible dog and many times I offered to supply the bullet free to send him back through the gates of Hell from whence he came. Dog's do bite; believe it.


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## Remmi_&amp;_I

Let me preface this by stating I only have upland experiences to fall back on for head to head comparison....

I have hunted with 3 goldens in my hunting career and every one of them were GREAT hunters and even better companions. Currently my dad has a fuzz ball (that's what I call goldens) and we hunt with 2 labs and my weim and I are off to the side. As far as performance; the 6 year old fuzz ball finds more pheasants, covers more ground and retrieves equally as well in comparison to the labs (which are from good lines). The only advantage I see in my experience is the labs are stronger to bust real heavy covor and they don't pick up cockleburs (sp?) which is a HUGE factor to me. I hate de-cockleburring (sp?)!!!!!!!!

All breeds have a range of poor-exceptional dogs. Good breeding gives you a better chance at a high quality. I will always have indoor/family dogs so that weighs heavily in my puppy picking. My $.02


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## stkelly62

german wirehair pointer or an airedale terrier[/b]


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## hunter9494

gonehuntin, if you want to start a piss fight over nothing, then send me a private email. don't trash the website because you feel the need to take statements out of context and fit them to a training scenario just to start a fight or to TRY to make yourself look knowledgable. uke:

only an idoit would intentionally make a dog mean or tolerate that type of behavior. your post truly shows how little YOU know about training dogs!
:eyeroll:


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## gonehuntin'

Not me. The moderator's have enough to do on this site. I'm out of this one.


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## BROWNDOG

hunter9494 said:


> gonehuntin, if you want to start a piss fight over nothing, then send me a private email. don't trash the website because you feel the need to take statements out of context and fit them to a training scenario just to start a fight or to TRY to make yourself look knowledgable. uke:
> 
> only an idoit would intentionally make a dog mean or tolerate that type of behavior. your post truly shows how little YOU know about training dogs!
> :eyeroll:


9494,

You have absolutly no Idea what you are talking about, or what GH has done. He has more experience with dogs, and put more titles on dogs than every one here combined.. If you pay attention to him you may learn something..


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## northdakotakid

9494... again you amaze me with your "more than you" knowledge ... everyone is impressed that you ahve the 64 box of crayons...

As far as dog's go... you need to look at what you want out of your dog well before you buy.

I am a lab guy so I will tell you that they are a great all around dog... the golden guys will tell you the same and give the disclaimer that it is harder to find a good huting pedigree because of the backyard breeders (us lab guys realize that we will suffer the same fate). There are several other breeds also that are very capable hunters... but as mentioned above you need to match your expectations and training experience with the animal.

But the best all around dog I hunted behind has to be an English Springer... that guy had a motor that would not quit and he wanted to hunt as soon as he was out of the crate. He was the most impressive dog, out of shear will and determination, that I have ever hunted behind.


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## hunter9494

BD, if you are impressed by someone who brags about how mean their dog is, then perhaps you two guys have something in common with Michael Vick!

i don't care what his accomplishments are, a little civility and a few manners would be a good trade off for some of his self proclaimed awesome accomplishments.

my only comment was not everyone needs to spend big bucks with a pro to have their dog FF'd, period. from there i get a rant from you guys about how much smarter you are and how it can't be done without a pros' help.
GH is obviously heavy-handed, he even brags about it, so his method works for him and the type of dog he is working with, good for him. for a robotic dog such as a lab that is constantly running blinds, wonderful. 
i must go watch him at a trial with his chair and garbage can in hand!

these are not intelligent comments and most handlers would write him off as a lunatic! dogs aren't born mean, they are trained to respond that way. Christ man, any animal behaviorist can explain that much for you, what a jacked up approach to training!

kid-

i agree, there are dogs with unbelievable drive and a lot of them are not labs and just retrievers, in fact many are HPR's and there are some damn good ones and they are pretty easy to train as well.

the point is, there is no argument here unless you just want to have one for the sake of it! i am not a pro and have no interest in training a lab for 200 or 300 yard blinds. i prefer HPR breeds and just enjoy training / hunting them. i also prefer to do all my training myself.


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## Burnout

OK Back to the subject....

For a dual purpose dog, really a lab is a great choice. Im not saying that other breeds cant fit the bill.

The thing about labs getting tired while hunting upland is generally just because they are a larger breed and have to work a little harder at keeping cool, all dogs are affected by heat and need to be watched very carefully when temps are high no matter what breed. Dogs wont always tell you when they are gettin pooped cause they dont want to stop having fun 

I would suggest getting your google on, and search for some hunting breeds, pick some you like, remember you are looking for a life long hunting buddy not just a tool, then narrow it down according to what your hunting practices are going to be.

good luck

Dave

PS...My beagle can kick up the roosters just as good with half the burs 8)


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## gonehuntin'

hunter9494 said:


> BD, if you are impressed by someone who brags about how mean their dog is, then perhaps you two guys have something in common with Michael Vick!


You know, I wasn't going to post on this thread anymore, but I just can't let you so ignorantly misprepresent a post. Where did you ever read into that post that I was "bragging about how mean their dog is"? I was stating a fact and what a trainer has to go through to sometimes train an animal. That particular dog was sent to me because it HAD been mistreated by another trainer and the owner felt I was the one to straighten him out. Whenever you corrected that dog, by collar or stick, he'd immediately attack. What would your answer have hunter? If you've never been bitten by a dog, I'm here to tell you it HURTS and they can really tear you up and do a lot of damage. Would you have just sent the dog home? That's not being a dog trainer is it? You train what you're sent to train, no matter the problem. It's up to you to analyze that problem, solve it, and train the dog. As far as I'm concerned, you're the only one being insulting and unreasonable on here. The name of that dog was Gahonk's Moonraker Rebel.



hunter9494 said:


> i don't care what his accomplishments are, a little civility and a few manners would be a good trade off for some of his self proclaimed awesome accomplishments.


I think you've just addressed your own shortcoming's. Where have you ever read my "self proclaimed accomplishments".?



hunter9494 said:


> GH is obviously heavy-handed, he even brags about it, so his method works for him and the type of dog he is working with, good for him. for a robotic dog such as a lab that is constantly running blinds, wonderful.
> i must go watch him at a trial with his chair and garbage can in hand!


What are you smoking when you're dreaming this stuff up? Where have I ever bragged about being heavy handed? To the contrary, I advocate fair treatment of dog's and abhor anyone that is sadistic with them. My dogs were consistently the happiest and hardest driving dog's on the field trial grounds. Yup. Ran a lot of 500 yard blinds and lots of tight quads. You have to if you're to be competetive.



hunter9494 said:


> these are not intelligent comments and most handlers would write him off as a lunatic! dogs aren't born mean, they are trained to respond that way. Christ man, any animal behaviorist can explain that much for you, what a jacked up approach to training!!


Can you point out to any of us where I ever intimated a dog was born mean? Certainly some dogs have a propensity to bite more than others, but born mean? Give us a break.



hunter9494 said:


> the point is, there is no argument here unless you just want to have one for the sake of it! i am not a pro and have no interest in training a lab for 200 or 300 yard blinds. i prefer HPR breeds and just enjoy training / hunting them. i also prefer to do all my training myself.


Which means you don't really understand what a pro goes through or what it takes to turn out one of these marvelous animals. I think it's fine that you enjoy training your own dogs. My problem comes in that since you're pretty obviously inexperienced, you shouldn't so vehemently criticize people that are experienced. Does it mean we're right becuase we're experienced? No it doesn't. It simply means we have a lot of experience. I apologize to the other members for even responding to this attack, but it just isn't in me to let an attack of this nature, and one so loaded with inaccuracies, go unanswered. I've said my piece and will respond no further no matter what hunter's response. Maybe it's time to lock this one up also.

[/b]


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## BROWNDOG

Once again hunter 9494 you need to spend some time around a good pro and attend some FT or HT before you make statements like that.

I can see why you have no interest in training a lab to run 300 yard blind, you wouldn't know where to begin.

I'm done here as well, Hunter9494 can take over know and flood this thread with his knowledge. 

Out of couriosity what program do yo follow when you are training your HPR's?????

And what the h#ll is a HPR???????????????


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## rb.number3

Once again, we have a thread, I would guess, that is going to be locked.
It has traveled so far of base, that we have forgotten the subject.

I am very confident that you can FF a dog without being a pro. If not,
I wonder where guys like Newt Cropper, John Pease, Gary McIllwain, 
and thousands more send their dogs. Three of the above, have owned
National Champions, and all have AFC titled their dogs. Is the average
amatuer, anywhere close to these fellows, NO. But then again, most
are not training their dogs to run in a National, or even a FT or HT for
that matter. 
I have spent many hours, with two of the above mentioned amatuers,
and when they speak, I pay attention. Can a serious amatuer, FF their
own dog ?? Most definetly. Can a new dog owner, step in and FF their
dog, ??? more then likely, the results, will be less than satisfactory.
The key to having a high level retriever, is to train, surround, youself
with knowledgeable dog people. And listen, to what they are saying. 
I have never had any of these fellows, refuse to help. Offer to throw
birds for them, or just sit back and watch. Most of these guys, are as 
common as they come. And will help, if you approach them, and treat them with the respect they deserve. 
We have many guys, that hang out on theses forums, with a vast amount
of great info. And I truly love reading all they have to say. And I am sure you know who you are. And I thank you for the info you share with us.
Please do not drive these guys away. We are lucky they are willing to 
share all their experience with us. Thanks Guys

Back to the original post, Hard to beat a Lab, for all around dog. 
Russ


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## BROWNDOG

rb.number3 said:


> Once again, we have a thread, I would guess, that is going to be locked.
> It has traveled so far of base, that we have forgotten the subject.
> 
> I am very confident that you can FF a dog without being a pro. If not,
> I wonder where guys like Newt Cropper, John Pease, Gary McIllwain,
> and thousands more send their dogs. Three of the above, have owned
> National Champions, and all have AFC titled their dogs. Is the average
> amatuer, anywhere close to these fellows, NO. But then again, most
> are not training their dogs to run in a National, or even a FT or HT for
> that matter.
> I have spent many hours, with two of the above mentioned amatuers,
> and when they speak, I pay attention. Can a serious amatuer, FF their
> own dog ?? Most definetly. Can a new dog owner, step in and FF their
> dog, ??? more then likely, the results, will be less than satisfactory.
> The key to having a high level retriever, is to train, surround, youself
> with knowledgeable dog people. And listen, to what they are saying.
> I have never had any of these fellows, refuse to help. Offer to throw
> birds for them, or just sit back and watch. Most of these guys, are as
> common as they come. And will help, if you approach them, and treat them with the respect they deserve.
> We have many guys, that hang out on theses forums, with a vast amount
> of great info. And I truly love reading all they have to say. And I am sure you know who you are. And I thank you for the info you share with us.
> Please do not drive these guys away. We are lucky they are willing to
> share all their experience with us. Thanks Guys
> 
> Back to the original post, Hard to beat a Lab, for all around dog.
> Russ[/quot
> 
> Very well put Russ


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## USAlx50

I give to this thread.... a dancing jar of poo.


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## USAlx50

I like labs.....


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## The goose charmer

Wow, What a crazy thread. I know I am jumping in a little late but hears my two pennies worth. I am only 20 and am on my second dog. My first is a female yellow lab and was bought for mainly a family pet and she was a doll. I was only fourteen and never had a dog and loved to hunt. She was no steller dog but at after a year of fetch she went on her first trip to ND and was stellar for a 1 1/2 year yellow lab trained by a fourteen year old then 15. Never went to far and the retreving came within the first ten huns that we stumbled apon.

Dog number two is another lab and another female but she is black. After my first dog i never planned on another lab. Actually wanted a pointer because I love to see them lock up on thoes big ruddies. But a friend came to me with a 7 wk female without a home so i tooke her in. She was way differetn from the start. My first dog lived outside and did not listen very good and needed a little help from a training collor. Belle my new lab is diffferent she had been with me all her life and all she wants to do is be at my side or playing fetch. She sits, stays, heals, lays down on command and I can even sender on blind retrievs at nine and a half months. hand signels are coming but point her in a direction and she finds in almost every time. I hunt primarily geese now and cant wait to see her work. Oh ya and she doesent just play fetch with one ball but usually three or for. So if you try hard eneough anybody can train a good dog.

just my 2 cents


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## schlag

Get a Drahthaar. You will never regret it. Hands down the best all around dog that exists today. These dogs will do anything that is asked of them and are the most loyal friendly partners you could wish for. They will never let you down. Hunt with the best, Hunt with a Drahthaar.


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## mdaniel

rb.number3 that is a well written post. In all my years of training I don't think off one time that other trainers arn't willing to give a hand.

Now my 2 cents
In most of my years I have trained & breed Goldens, a very good breed as upland hunting was what I was in. I have a Lab which is a good breed as well. In review to what breed a person should get. Depends on the type of hunting prefence one has. I have seen the boykin and think in all around that in size that breed would kick butt. For those how ask what breed, That is all up to you an your hunting inviorment.

Just my 2 cents


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## Dakota Lady

*sigh* reading ur words over and over again..... all i do know i am wanting to have a dog that would hunt for geese, pheaseants alot!!! which I WILL LOVE to hunt geese. I would want to hunt ducks but probably not because my parnter wouldnt want to eat duck. hes not too crazy. but its not really for me its for my parnter who is trying to figure out cuz his dog is really old reallly really old with bad hip and paws. its time for her to rest.......so thats when we were talking about what dog is best to have. as of right now I am trying my border collie. Cuz hes PHEASANT FREAK!!!! He sees pheasant from my car he would knock and knock his nose on that damm window. I would say stop that. He want to go get that pheasants. HE LOVE IT!!!! hes still a pup which hes 1 year old so he still learning to control his hyper. He sees one pheasant, boy hes gone!!! he will chase after it he will work his butt off to get it. by the time hes about a mile away he look back he realized that i am far away. He will run back to me. So i have to teach him to stay within my range and keep him from exciting. He need to learn. Hes just a kid. he can bring geese to me i tested him last year. he will drag with his head sideway LOL. So I will go with him. But for my parnter, hes not sure what pup to get probably not till after the child born. So......... keep on talking and help us think some more!!!! if someone can mention something else. 
By the way about golden Retriver. I used to have one she was my best dog but never trained to do hunting. NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT!! but she was my best friend to go fishing with. I would tell her to go get me a fish
she would go there and get a bobby ball instead OH BROTHER!!!
thanks


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