# Posted Land



## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

I've been coming to NoDak for twenty years... I have NEVER seen as much posted land as I do now. There are lots o birds but CONTACTING the owners has never been more difficult.

I understand both sides of the posting debate. I sure wish it was like it was back then. Surely the increased amount of hunters should put enough money in the local economy to reflect lower gas prices, grocery prices etc for the landowners who post their lands. I understand also that ruts in fields and open gates cause this... I just wish some of the local Chamber of Commerce could talk to landowners and shed some light o some of the positive aspects of visiting sportsmen... I know my home state relies VERY HEAVILY on Tourism... I cannot imagine there would be a difference here.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

How much is due to farmers getting ready for deer season,and not wanting them chased off their land. This was quite common when I lived in Bottineau.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I understand also that ruts in fields and open gates cause this...


 I think the larger cause is pay to play. When outfitters started leasing land the posted signs increased. I can't speak for the entire state, but around Devils Lake where my relatives are that's the way it is. They went to the legislature about the early goose season because they said they needed more hunters to keep the goose population down and out of their fields. However, unless you paid you didn't hunt. It started around the Mott area for pheasants and quickly spread to Devils Lake for waterfowl. As I understand an outfitter up there has successfully blocked access to a lake connected to Devils Lake. The resource is being exploited for profit and our legislature will do absolutely anything for a buck.

When this site started I said if we are not careful we will become like Texas. A couple members jumped all over me for that comment. One admitted he was an outfitter, the other denied he even knew an outfitter. Turned out the second guy run a high fence elk operation. We definitely had about four guys on here at that time whose purpose I am convinced was to ride herd on us. One so outspoken and nasty he was banned, then banned from fishingbuddy, then banned from nodakangler. He antagonized people to get a reaction, then admitted on nodakangler that he took those comments and used them when he spoke to the legislature. Nice guy.

It's sad. I went from seeing my first posted sign in 1957 to seeing most things posted today. As a kid growing up on the farm one of the things I enjoyed most was a large juneberry patch we had. The bordering neighbor didn't care about our juneberry patch and his spray killed everything. He put up the first posted sign I ever seen. He didn't care about destroying our juneberries, but he didn't want anyone walking on his dirt in the fall. Unfortunately the close relationship between landowners and hunters is dying more every year. When I warned about it I was called the divider by those pulling in the money, not by those paying out the money. One fellow told me that because of my comments he was posting his whole farm. The funny thing is his neighbor was on this site at the time and PMed me. He said the guy didn't farm, he owned 20 acres, worked in town, and has had his 20 acres posted forever. One of the herders would talk to me reasonably and respectfully on the site, then PM me and call me every name in the book.

I don't mind guides at all. I don't mind outfitters that work on their own land. I do mind outfitters who lease up 50,000 acres and shut it off. The sad thing is it's only going to get worse. Montana has really gone nuts. Ranchers are blocking access to a couple million acres of public land. They passed a law they call hoping. Some area land ownership looks like checkerboards. The new law will not let you step from one section of public land to another diagonally because even though your feet don't touch private land your body passes over it. Then they want to introduce a bill that gives ranchers control of airspace over their land. I think the elevation they proposed was 10,000 feet. Their excuse was they needed protection from drones snooping about. Oh come on what is the range on a drone, and do they really fly that high? I think the problem was some guys taking helicopters in and dropping hunters on public land they have blocked.

Just a little history of posting, and things that happened on this site that most people are totally unaware of. Enjoy it while it lasts guys it's not going to get better. All we can hope for is hunting public land. If outfitters are going to take over private land perhaps when the sportsmen and other outdoor enthusiast get fed up we can push the outfitters off the public land.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Good post.....I remember those guys. I no longer hunt waterfowl in ND. But I do hunt pheasants there. We have been going to the same places for a long time and still have most of those places available to hunt.

If I remember right.....outfitters can't legally hunt on public land can they?


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I miss the good old days. When I started hunting very little was posted. life was good. Unfortunately the commercialization of hunting has killed that. In the last 12-15 years the commercialization of deer hunting ha effected all types of hunting. Every one has become an armchair biologist/game manager. As mentioned many farmers are afraid of even bird hunters running the deer off their property. Studies were done years ago which demonstrated it was almost impossible to push a deer off it's home territory. Deer generally adapt to even extensive pressure by altering their habits, NOT leaving their territory. Generally they become more nocturnal, at least when it comes to utilizing open areas. When I started hunting we used to do deer drives. Some areas got pushed at least once a day and got far more pressure than they see now, yet the deer were almost always there. The studies did indicate one of the few things that will make a buck leave his home area is lack of does ready to breed. I believe this to be, and not pressure, one of the reasons, some bucks disappear from their home territory temporarily during hunting season. I'm not sure many of todays land owners or hunters are even aware of those studied and I'm not sure if I could even find them.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I think it is a little bit of everything, but in my area (Bottineau County) I am not aware of any guided hunts or outfitters paying to have land posted. A lot of land is posted around farms and farm buildings though primarily due to damage and not wanting to get shot while raking leaves around the house.

Now I did not say this in jest. Two weeks ago a friend was in her garage getting something out of her freezer when she her a loud boom and her garage window exploded. She peeked out the garage door and a guy was running to his dodge pickup with a pheasant in his hand. She was so mad she took off after him driving down gravel roads doing 85 mph but lost him in all the dust. That was ill advised.
She called the authorities and they verified the damaged siding, window and pellets. Traced him to the city of Minot but he wouldn't admit it. She couldn't get a license plate number and only saw the back of him so couldn't identify him specifically.

Incidents like these certainly don't help. Think of being a young mother with three kids and having shot and/or bullets flying into your home. People in urban areas don't necessarily know what it is like to walk out of your rural home and having to wear orange when you don't even hunt. My children are grown and away so I quit deer hunting lately but when I'm working outside during deer hunting I wear the full garb. Every time I hear a rifle shot I cringe. Have had too many qounsets, grain bins and yard lights shot out not to be leery.

Having said all that I only post around my home and shop site. ALL other land is available and unposted. If someone chases a deer into a posted area they can ask and I will let them hunt as long as I know those involved. Several neighbors are the same.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> If I remember right.....outfitters can't legally hunt on public land can they?


 They sure can. I remember one hunt in Colorado. We picked a spot and set up our tent for the week. This outfitter came along and told us that's where he camps. Nice spot I said. He stood there for a while looking at me then asked "well aren't you going to move". I said it takes me about four hours just to pack up. There isn't a chance in heii that I am even going to think about it the night before season. He was so ticked he could hardly talk.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Plainsman said:


> > If I remember right.....outfitters can't legally hunt on public land can they?
> 
> 
> They sure can. I remember one hunt in Colorado. We picked a spot and set up our tent for the week. This outfitter came along and told us that's where he camps. Nice spot I said. He stood there for a while looking at me then asked "well aren't you going to move". I said it takes me about four hours just to pack up. There isn't a chance in heii that I am even going to think about it the night before season. He was so ticked he could hardly talk.


north1 we are lucky to have you on the site for your perspective. Over the years we know you don't hand out bs. It ticks me off to no end when fools act like that hunter. To save the sport we have to get over the old third grade guilty conscience of feeling like were squealing on a fellow hunter if we report them. These guys are not fellow hunters, they are slob hunters destroying the relationship between those who respect landowners and landowners. A few years ago a fellow on this site said he had a neighbor doing that and didn't want to report it due to retaliation. I told him lease me your pasture for $1. I'll never hunt it, you can let anyone on you want, but I'll sign the complaint against the guy who is harassing you year after year. He never took me up on it. Same guy who said he was going to post all his land because of my comments. Evidently he was just handing me a bad hunter story. That's why your perspectives are so valuable to us --- because experience has taught us that with others to often there is an agenda with the stories.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I'm talking about ND. This is from the ND GNF. I don't think the state GNF gives them permission. That includes PLOTS.

H. Guiding on Prohibited Land
A person may not act as a hunting guide or hunting outfitter on land the person knows is owned
by the state unless the appropriate state agency permits or authorizes the guiding or outfitting, on
private land enrolled by the Department for purposes of hunting, on land in which the
Department pays in lieu of taxes, on federal land without being authorized or permitted as
required by the appropriate federal agency, or on private lands posted against hunting or
trespassing without first informing and obtaining permission from the landowner to conduct
guiding or outfitting on the land. If the landowner did not grant the permission in writing, there
is presumption that the permission did not exist.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes they need to be licensed and get a state or federal agency permit.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

No I don't think so......they have to have permission. Not just a license. The GNF said that at one of the meetings I went to. They also said it was really hard to enforce it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

KEN W said:


> No I don't think so......they have to have permission. Not just a license. The GNF said that at one of the meetings I went to. They also said it was really hard to enforce it.


Yes they need to be licensed and get a state or federal agency permit.


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Idiots rutting up land and leaving trash, digging pits, digging pits and not filling them back in, leaving ruts, driving up and down the ditch and leaving ruts there. A lot of farmers have had enough of that crap. We had another field all rutted up from some young high schoolers that got stuck "we didn't think it was that wet". That was a 20 year no till field, all of that went down the drain. We can't post that field because the landowner doesn't want his land posted.

Us hunters need to do more education on what not to do to piss of landowners and farmers.


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## Outdoor RN (Aug 22, 2016)

No matter what you do, how well you treat the land, your land owner contacts and gifts, etc.etc.etc&#8230;.some dumbass will come along and screw it all up. Never fails.... :roll:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Outdoor RN said:


> No matter what you do, how well you treat the land, your land owner contacts and gifts, etc.etc.etc&#8230;.some dumbass will come along and screw it all up. Never fails.... :roll:


Parents need to step up and start teaching their kids about treating private property with respect. We need to focus on that more during hunter safety, we need to do everything us hunters can to get ahead of this crap. Some day soon, there will not be any land left to hunt on other then public land and that will be the end of hunting for the common man.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

The law should be no hunters driving on private land period walk in only unless they own the land of course

Works fine in Kansas

But the outfitters are killing Kansas to


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## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

ND has law restricting who farmers can sell land to. Why not a law banning the lease of hunting rights?
I'm not an advocate for either.
I'm also not overly constrained by posting. 40,000 acres fed wpa. Thousands more state lands. Permission on over 10,000 acres private posted lands. All as a NR.
ND is a GREAT place. I don't live there, but I've made arrangements to be buried there.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

oldfireguy - what is this law you speak of??? I don't understand why a property owner (not just a farmer) could not sell his land to ANYONE HE WANTED TO... for any price he thought reasonable...


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Sasha and Abby said:


> oldfireguy - what is this law you speak of??? I don't understand why a property owner (not just a farmer) could not sell his land to ANYONE HE WANTED TO... for any price he thought reasonable...


Corporations cannot buy land in ND.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Sasha and Abby said:


> oldfireguy - what is this law you speak of??? I don't understand why a property owner (not just a farmer) could not sell his land to ANYONE HE WANTED TO... for any price he thought reasonable...


I don't believe property owners can sell land without the OK from the County Commissioners. And they don't always give the OK.....especially if trying to sell to a gov. agency or private agency, like Ducks Unlimited or the Nature Conservancy.. They don't like land taken out of production. Lowers value for other land in that county.....

.Example, years ago a landowner in the badlands wanted to sell land to the Nature Conservancy to give to the Park Service to add to Theodore Roosevelt Nat'l Park. Commissioners said NO. This also happened up around Devils Lake when a party wanted to sell land to Ducks Unlimited and they said NO.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> They don't like land taken out of production. Lowers value for other land in that county.....


That's confusing isn't it Ken. I would think less land in production would mean less produced which would mean prices raised on commodities and in turn higher land value. I think the reason for our legislature passing laws to keep conservation organizations from owning land is because they don't want competition. Free market is good until they have to compete then it's bad. Government subsidies over the years have turned agriculture from capitalism to more acceptable of socialist programs. Don't get me wrong this isn't only agriculture it's pushed through our colleges to every student there, and pushed through all media to every citizen.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Yup.....sure not capitalism if you can't sell to anyone you want. They always claim there is enough public land in ND.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Should be clarified that NONRESIDENT corporations cannot buy land in ND. The idea is to keep control of ND land in ND. Out of state corporations were coming into the state and trying to influence local farm policy to favor out of state interests.. And county commissioner s don't like to lose ag land in instances where it will reduce their tax base.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Dakota here is how I look at tax base. I think the feds pay a portion, something like 70%. 
So what are these land taxes for? Education, there are no children on public land that need educating. Roads, they don't have people living on public land so they don't need roads. Fire protection, perhaps for prairie fires, but there are no buildings on most public land so there is reduced need. There are other things, but you get the idea. Tax base is a false argument, and they know it.


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

you are 100% correct plainsman


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I agree.... I was more referencing private farmland. One of the reasons counties do not like conservation groups like DU to buy land is that they take it out of production and the counties get less tax money out of it. Granted the services required for those areas is less but it still reduces the county's overall income. And understand that in farm country most commissioners are farmers or tied to farming and have the viewpoint that the ONLY valuable use for land is farming. A farmer can look at a forest and in his mind is figuring out how much work it would be to clear the trees and stumps to enable him to farm it. LOL


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## riverrat47 (Sep 25, 2010)

If everyone went back to driving 2 wheel drives or station wagons, the ruts wouldn't be as far out into the fields.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Well in this years farm bill. There is an incentive to do "no til". So as a warning to everyone. MAKE SURE TO Check with land owners about DRIVING OUT ON FIELDS this up coming season. Even more so than you did in the past. I know one farmer in MN who's land I hunt is thinking about going "no til". So I thank BLhunter for all of his insight on it the past few years. So when I was talking with him I had a little knowledge on the subject and mentioned the "driving" on it and ruts. Which the farmer said... "I never thought about that". So that helped win some points. Thanks BL. :beer:


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## blhunter3 (May 5, 2007)

Chuck Smith said:


> Well in this years farm bill. There is an incentive to do "no til". So as a warning to everyone. MAKE SURE TO Check with land owners about DRIVING OUT ON FIELDS this up coming season. Even more so than you did in the past. I know one farmer in MN who's land I hunt is thinking about going "no til". So I thank BLhunter for all of his insight on it the past few years. So when I was talking with him I had a little knowledge on the subject and mentioned the "driving" on it and ruts. Which the farmer said... "I never thought about that". So that helped win some points. Thanks BL. :beer:


Glad I can help


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