# Movement only promotes racism......



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

Chicago Family's 'Buy Black' Experiment Becoming a Nationwide Movement
Tuesday, May 12, 2009

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AP

April 16, 2009: Maggie Anderson, right, talks with Michael Hill at the black-owned Vino Libro wine bar in Atlanta.
ATLANTA - It's been two months since 2-year-old Cori pulled the gold stud from her left earlobe, and the piercing is threatening to close as her mother, Maggie Anderson, hunts for a replacement.

It's not that the earring was all that rare - but finding the right store has become a quest of Quixotic proportions.

Maggie and John Anderson of Chicago vowed four months ago that for one year, they would try to patronize only black-owned businesses. The "Empowerment Experiment" is the reason John had to suffer for hours with a stomach ache and Maggie no longer gets that brand-name lather when she washes her hair. A grocery trip is a 14-mile odyssey.

"We kind of enjoy the sacrifice because we get to make the point ... but I am going without stuff and I am frustrated on a daily basis," Maggie Anderson said. "It's like, my people have been here 400 years and we don't even have a Walgreens to show for it."

So far, the Andersons have spent hundreds of dollars with black businesses from grocery stores to dry cleaners. But the couple still hasn't found a mortgage lender, home security system vendor or toy store. Nonetheless, they're hoping to expand the endeavor beyond their Chicago home.

Plans are under way to track spending among supporters nationwide and build a national database of quality black businesses. The first affiliate chapter has been launched in Atlanta, and the couple has established a foundation to raise funds for black businesses and an annual convention.

"We have the real power to do something, to use the money we spend every day to solve our problems," Maggie Anderson said recently at a meet-and-greet in Atlanta. "We have to believe that black businesses are just as good as everybody else's."

Now, the Andersons are following up with 4,000 people who signed up for the experiment on their Web site to gauge their commitment and set up online accounts to track their spending. Hundreds have also joined the experiment's Facebook page, Maggie Anderson said.

Gregory Price, chairman of the economics department at Morehouse College, said black visionaries like Booker T. Washington and Marcus Garvey made similar calls to action.

"The idea is a sound one, given that black Americans are still underrepresented in the ranks of the self-employed and that entrepreneurship is a key component to wealth," Price said.

There are one million black businesses in the United States accounting for more than $100 billion in annual sales, according to the National Black Chamber of Commerce. The latest U.S. Census numbers report that blacks have more than $800 billion in expendable income each year.

The Andersons track their spending on their Web site and estimate about 55 percent of their monthly spending is with black businesses for things like day care, groceries, car maintenance and home improvements.

One of the businesses highlighted by the Empowerment Experiment is Brenda Brown's Atlanta wine boutique, a shop with a growing black clientele. She said the project can help overcome the problems many black consumers lament.

"When we were a community of black folks who could not go to the white stores, our community of black stores flourished," Brown said. "When we were given the opportunity to go into the white store, it was like nothing else mattered anymore and we wanted to go to the white store, regardless of what the black store provided. We could have the same or better products if we supported (black businesses) in the same way."

Lewis Peeples, 45, lives in a black neighborhood in southwest Atlanta but didn't think to spend his money with black businesses until a friend told him about the project.

"So often, we make purchases and decisions and aren't even mindful that there is a a need to support our own businesses," said Peeples. "Now, I'm reaching out and making sure I know that I have an option when I look to make a purchase."

Two months ago, he committed to patronizing black businesses and found a black dry cleaner 10 minutes from home. Even when he was dissatisfied with his black doctor, he was able to find a new one. He suggests both to friends and refers others to the experiment's Web site, where he tracks his expenses.

Dallas Smith, who owns a commercial real estate firm in Atlanta, said mainstream retailers have undervalued black consumers. He lives in a black neighborhood in southwest Atlanta, where he tries to dine at black restaurants. He lamented the lack of quality businesses catering to black customers and said blacks should appreciate such businesses more.

"We've still got that 'the white man's water is colder' mentality," he said. "We can't take us for granted. When we go to our establishments, it's almost like we're doing a favor. That ought to be a given for us."

The Andersons remain encouraged by their momentum online and in the media. At the end of 2009, they hope to show $1 million in spending with black businesses among supporters across the country.

"The response has been so huge," Maggie Anderson said. "We think so much can come out of this. We're in movement-making mode now."

Price, the Morehouse professor, said defining the project's success won't be easy, since the real barriers to black advancement are poor access to capital and lack of training opportunities.

"It would be nice to see some real, hard data," Price said. "Otherwise, it could just be an episode of ethnic cheerleading."

this will be counterproductive....wonder if Eric Holder endorses such nonsense?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think it's been about 20 years that I as a federal employee (former had to buy from a minority owned business first. If it was furniture I could purchase from Prison Industries. The government has been prejudice purchasing for years.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

I read the article, but I fail to see how the thread title "Movement only promotes racism" is appropriate. Perhaps we have different definitions of racism.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

fhalum said:


> I read the article, but I fail to see how the thread title "Movement only promotes racism" is appropriate. Perhaps we have different definitions of racism.


I think we should all be color blind. Favoritism of any kind slights the rest of society. Can you begin to imagine the uprising if we had a group promoting buy from white owned business first? What if the government told you that you had to buy from a white owned business, and could only buy from a black owned business if the white owned business didn't have what you wanted?
As another example look at affirmative action. Some people say we need it because they are pro black. How can you be pro something like that without being against everyone else? 
The only way we will get rid of racism is to ignore everything and simply be pro people. Why should we know what race a person is on a job application? Is it important? Why should we even know if a business is owned by white or black, or any race for that matter? Who cares if the business you walk into is owned by white, black, Asian, etc. If I want a widget, all I care about the store I walk into is that they have one, and what price is it. 
Many of the liberal politicians go so far to cure racism that the cause it. The people who see race and gender are the racists and sexists. Why can we not look at someone and just see another human? Look at the stupid books like "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". Everyone wants to be free and happy. The fools that celebrate diversity divide this nation. Lets look at what we have in common. We have so much more in common why do we dwell on what is different about each of us? I guess the politicians need to keep us divided so we don't look at what they are doing.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

I often hear people who say they are "colorblind." At face value, that seems like a good idea. However, I tend to think that race should be part of the overall equation. To ignore race altogether is to ignore the constant struggle that people of color have had (and continue to have).

It's like when I first heard the term "white privilege" in college. As a white person, I was offended that I was somehow privileged just due to my whiteness. I knew I had worked hard to get to my place in life, and I was convinced that anyone who wanted to work hard, regardless of his/her race, would be able to be successful as well.

However, as I was exposed more to the ideas of racism (which I think of as more systemic in nature, rather than internalized by individuals) I came to realize that a great deal of the things I took for granted were a direct result of me being born white (which, obviously, I had no control over.)

The opposite, then, holds true for me. If I have distinct privileges just for being white, shouldn't I take into consideration the struggles that non-whites face each day? Being white is part of who I am (whether I care to acknowledge it or not), so it is the same then for people of color (whether they - or we - care to acknowledge it or not).


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

If white people had done this, jessie, al, louis and aoo the other "reverends" would be marching in the street. What a bunch of friggin bigots.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

Sasha and Abby said:


> If white people had done this, jessie, al, louis and aoo the other "reverends" would be marching in the street. What a bunch of friggin bigots.


But the difference is that white people already own the majority of businesses. It's no different than some people who drive extra distance or pay a little more money to support any other particular type of business. Some drive out of their way to visit a Christian-owned business. Some do not shop at Wal-Mart in order to support "the local guy." People of color wanting to see success in other people of color is what the article was about.

There is no need for white people to seek out white-owned businesses because most of the businesses are already white-owned.

It's just like Black History Month. African Americans have played a great role in our nation's history. However, since whites have been mostly in power, history books are written from that vantage point. There is no need for a White History Month because whites have already written the history, as whites have traditionally had the privilege and the power. The purpose, then, of Black History Month is to focus on the role of Blacks in our nation's history since their contributions are (in general) otherwise overlooked.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

If all people were color blind there would be no problem. As my mother used to say two wrongs do not make a right. Today the affirmative action program is simply reverse discrimination. It is minority privilege. White privilege was wrong, and today minority privilege is wrong. Some year prejudice has to stop. You can not make up for the mistakes of the past by shafting the other side today. It just doesn't work that way. It simply makes those people the racists. 
To me non racist has to mean you favor no one over anyone else. To be for one group disadvantages the other. You can not be pro white without being racist, you can not be pro black without being racist, you can not be pro Asian without being racist, etc. I often find that those who think they are the least racist simply go overboard the other direction and don't realize it. 
I am often disappointed in humanity. We see feuds between people in Kosovo for example that have been going after each other for two thousand years. I suppose if we assigned people even and odd numbers some jerk would want even numbers to sit in the back of the buss.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

fhalum I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but where do we stop, and how far down do we break history. Should we have a German history month, a French history month, a Norwegian history month, a teacher history month, a policeman history month, a horse history month, a dog history month, a poor person history month, a rich person history month etc etc.???? Everybody has to have an angle today. Hey look at me. 
Sorry, is anyone else tired of hearing race, gender, and other things that divide us. More diversity bs. I would rather talk about what we have in common. After all we are not the Divided States of America ----yet, but were getting there.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

as long as people make economic decisions based on the color of the skin of those who provide goods or services, racism will continue..it really is pretty simple...as long as the pattern continues, prejudice will follow in the same footsteps.

some people will never get over it, some people feel better when a month, week or day is proclaimed to celebrate a race or famous leader. as long as attention is brought to highlight our differences, those differences will continue to divide the nation. we can move on or dwell on the obvious with no improvement. everyone has a choice to make.


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

As a white person, it makes me cringe when I hear of crap like the above article, but I support anyone's choice to do business where they want. If someone wants to drive 17 miles to shop at a black owned store, more power to them, it's their own money they are spending or wasting, whatever your opinion is. Myself, I could care less, whomever has the best price is getting my business for the most part, so I can provide a better life for my family.

WE NEED TO REWARD EXCELLENCE, NOT MEDIOCRITY! That is the number one problem in this country. Be proud to be what you are, but stop sticking it in our faces. If your black, muslim, christian, white, green, whatever, people need to stop assuming they are better or worse based on that.

The way the current society is, we should all be ashamed of the caucasian middle class family with 3 vehicles and a nice house because someone who never applied themselves in school or went the extra mile to try to better themselves got the supposed short hand.

Every family/person has a choice to be where they are in life. Nobody makes anyone do anything, live anywhere they don't want to, for the most part. Now sure, there are some cases of just bad luck, but it is what it is, nobody anywhere, gov't or anything else, can guarantee fairness in life.

I was lucky enough to have a father that went back to college at 28 with two kids and a wife to support to better himself. They made many sacrifices during that time, and because of those sacrifices and effort, he became very well off in life, could afford to send his kids to college and pay for it, which he had too because no matter if you filed independant or not, their income counted against your FAFSA, and all I hear is how we keep everyone down in this country. That is total bull.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

Plainsman said:


> fhalum I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but where do we stop, and how far down do we break history.


Don't worry. I don't think you're a jerk at all. I appreciate the way you speak your voice, even though I disagree with you from time to time. I enjoy lively discussions about a variety of topics, especially when those topics cause disagreement, and I think you do a good job of keeping those conversations going.



Plainsman said:


> If all people were color blind there would be no problem.


But I would assert that being "color blind" _is_ a problem. Whether we like it or not, a person's color is part of who they are. To deny that is, in my opinion, a mistake. You (as best as I know) are White. I am too. Regardless of whether we claim it or not, you and I have certain privileges afforded to us as a result.



Plainsman said:


> To me non racist has to mean you favor no one over anyone else.


True. However, the very fabric of our society has been (and I would submit, still is) designed to favor Whites. Until the current administration, how many people of color were elected president? Even before that, how many people of color were elected to any national political office? Heck, when my parents were younger, people of color couldn't even sit in the same area of restaurants or drink from the same water fountains as my parents. And that wasn't that long ago. Why is it that a grossly disproportionate number of people in prison (and on death row) are people of color? I could go on and on, but I think you see the point. Our society, based partly on its history and partly on it's current status, favors Whites. That's why you and I have White Privilege. We've done nothing to earn that whatsoever, but there are many opportunities afforded to us as a result.

If it truly were about being color blind, and if color really doesn't matter, would you (or me, or any other white person) take a pill that would make you a person of color? Black, Brown, doesn't matter, just a person of color. I would venture a guess that none of us would. Why? Is it because we're proud of being White? Maybe. But I would propose that it is because all of us know it is easier to be White in our society than it is to be a person of color. It's just a fact.



Hunter9494 said:


> as long as attention is brought to highlight our differences, those differences will continue to divide the nation.


I disagree. We do things all the time to highlight differences, but I don't think it divides our nation. If anything, it makes us stronger by recognizing that everyone is NOT the same. You don't have a strong football team that's made up only of offensive linemen. You need variety. Same thing goes for the US.


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

fhalum, Your football analogy? What you fail to mention in it is that to be a successful team all parts of it have to have a common goal they are willing to sacrafice and work hard to achieve, each an every player. An example of this in society is NOT shopping at a store because of the color of the owner, but rather because they have the best made products at a fair price, or best service, ect... doing otherwise incourages mediocrity. If I have to hire someone for a job it shouldn't be based on color but on who can do the job best, doing otherwise incourages appathy. If someone knows they are going to be given something simply because they are of one segment of society, what incentive is there to better themselves or contribute to bettering this country. Acceptance of mediocrity, tolerance of appathy,and a lack of incentives and reward for hard work is not what built this nation to being the greatest country in the world, but it may very well be it's downfall.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> True. However, the very fabric of our society has been (and I would submit, still is) designed to favor Whites. Until the current administration, how many people of color were elected president? Even before that, how many people of color were elected to any national political office?


fhalum, your making my point. People back then should have been color blind too. There never should have been slavery. Many things based on race never should have happened. People have been abusing each other since the dawn of time. Men have not treated women right for centuries. Today it's cool to tell jokes about how stupid men are. Stupidity follows more stupidity. All that crap needs to be put aside, but everyone want's to "get even". That is what is wrong with that reverend Wright that was Obama's mentor for 20 years. His hatred is born of a get even mentality for atrocities that mostly occurred to a generation or two before his. Those atrocities were committed by bad people who simply didn't care about others. They just happened to be white, but does color make your brain work that way? Greed, none caring, exploitation are products of the human brain and color has nothing to do with it. Do I know what it's like to be a slave? No, but I don't know what it's like to be a slave owner either. If I was black would I know what it was like to be a slave? I don't think so, I'm not old enough to have been there.

All those things you talked about are true, but some time we have to be color blind. Blacks would be better off today if people would have been color blind years ago. It has to begin some time, or hard feelings will continue for thousands of years. It's the color of the skin today that still causes the problem. If it wasn't then American blacks would be angry with African blacks who sold fellow blacks to white slave traders.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

gst said:


> An example of this in society is NOT shopping at a store because of the color of the owner, but rather because they have the best made products at a fair price, or best service, ect...


Even if it's not because of the color of the owner, how many times have you or I chosen to take our business to "the little guy" even though the price may be more expensive? I needed a new belt for a vacuum cleaner. I could get it at WalMart or at the local vacuum cleaner store (exact same belt) for 25 percent more. I chose the vacuum cleaner store because I wanted to help out "the little guy." The owner was at a disadvantage because he could not offer the same price on a like product, but I wanted him to succeed despite being the little guy.

According to the original article, people of color are choosing to do the same thing - support the little guy. They are offering their support to others who face the same disadvantages - namely, being people of color. They could get the same products elsewhere, but they choose to help out those who face similar adversity.

And regardless of whether the football analogy was right on mark or not, I still maintain that the desire for colorblindness is well-intended but an error to make, and that it is much more difficult to be a person of color than to have white privilege that you and I have every day.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

what is this white privilege you speak of?? name a fortune 500 company that doesn't practice diversity in their hiring. we see it all the time, Asians, Indians, etc. who are promoted constantly to fill quotes and meet diversity goals. despite the fact these people struggle to speak decent English and communicate well, they are promoted. tell your story to the unknowing, there are many of us who do know better!


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## gst (Jan 24, 2009)

fhalum, are you buying that vacum belt out of guilt over past generations transgretions, or because of your belief that the "little"guy" was what built this country and it is your desire to support that. Big difference.

The simple fact is if the black community calls for a movement to support black owned businesses because of color, it is considered helping each other. If a white group were to do this very same thing, it is immediately branded as racism. This is a double standard. And when one group is not held to the same level of accountability and given a pass simply because of color or history, what benefit comes of it? Either for society as a whole or that group itself. There are many black leaders today that have come to realize this, and are calling for their own community to rise above these double standards and their costs of mediocrity, appathy and decay and do what is best not just for their race, but this country as a whole. That is the "change" I believe America needs.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

hunter9494 said:


> what is this white privilege you speak of?? name a fortune 500 company that doesn't practice diversity in their hiring. we see it all the time, Asians, Indians, etc. who are promoted constantly to fill quotes and meet diversity goals. despite the fact these people struggle to speak decent English and communicate well, they are promoted. tell your story to the unknowing, there are many of us who do know better!


I know many people who didn't even get a chance at a job because they were white. I have had it happen personally. I know of job descriptions that were advertised trying to attract someone to fill affirmative action requirements. Let me give you an example of how prejudice affirmative action is. I once applied for a job that had a requirement of one year experience in wetlands and one year experience in aerial photography interpretation. I had 18 years of each. It also required a salary level already considered professional. I had that too. I was beat out by a 22 year old minority female with no experience and entry level salary. It was actually an illegal hire, but it filled an affirmative action requirement for that agency. I guess it was white middle aged male privilege. 

Until we become color blind and stop crap like affirmative action racism and sexism will continue. It simply changes directions from time to time.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

hunter9494 said:


> what is this white privilege you speak of??


As I have stated before, I, too, was first offended when I heard the term White Privilege. I, too, rattled off examples of affirmative action gone awry or listed examples of a time or two that I didn't feel I was treated fairly. Having been more fully exposed to the idea, however, I have come to realize that I experience white privilege every day. Here is a partial list of some things that you and I take for granted each and every day. People of color do not have these same conveniences. (You can google "examples of white privilege" and find these same results, and many more, but here are 25 or so just to get the ball rolling)

I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.

If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.

I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization," I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.

I can be pretty sure that my children's teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others' attitudes toward their race.

I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.

I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.

I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.

I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world's majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.

I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the "person in charge", I will be facing a person of my race.

If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.

If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn't a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.

I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.

I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.

I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.

I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.

I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.

If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.



hunter9494 said:


> name a fortune 500 company that doesn't practice diversity in their hiring.


I would turn the question back to you. How many fortune 500 companies are owned by people of color? I don't have hard data, but I would venture to guess it is very few to none. Again, an example of white privilege.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

Plainsman said:


> fhalum, your making my point. People back then should have been color blind too. There never should have been slavery. Many things based on race never should have happened.


I agree. They shouldn't have happened. But the fact is, they did. That is part of the reason today's world, and our nation in particular, has been shaped as it has. I did nothing to deserve being born with privilege, and people of color did nothing to deserve being born at a disadvantage. The question is now, what will we do with what we have? I am not convinced that ignoring the issue or asking people to forget about it will make it go away. It's easy for us to say, being that we are from the privileged side of the equation. I submit that if we were on the other side of the equation we would feel much differently about the issue. Asking someone to ignore and forget about something they are faced with every day is, in my opinion, out of line for us to do, especially since we have never been in their position.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

fhalum said:


> hunter9494 said:
> 
> 
> > what is this white privilege you speak of??
> ...


fhalum......all your prophetic quotes come from Peggy McIntosh's article,
"White Privilege Questionnaire".....don't you think you should give her credit for her article and not pretend these are your original thoughts?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think in most places blacks can do everything you mentioned.

As for:


> Asking someone to ignore and forget about something they are faced


They didn't face the really bad things, their ancestors did. Also, many of the white people that some hate, their ancestors were not even in this country yet. Some of us up north, our ancestors died freeing their ancestors. Yes, it is time for everyone of every color to put things aside and be Americans. Not black, not white, not German, not French, but simply American. I am not saying do not be proud of your heritage, do not celebrate it, by all means do, and pass it on to your children, but it should not be your primary identification.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

hunter9494 said:


> fhalum......all your prophetic quotes come from Peggy McIntosh's article, "White Privilege Questionnaire".....don't you think you should give her credit for her article and not pretend these are your original thoughts?


If you will notice, I wrote "YOU CAN GOOGLE 'EXAMPLES OF WHITE PRIVILEGE' AND FIND THESE SAME RESULTS AND MANY MORE [emphasis added] but here are 25 or so just to get the ball rolling." That's exactly what I did. I quickly googled "examples of white privilege," and then copied and pasted them here. I did not mean for them to be taken as my original thoughts. I could have taken the time to find who originally wrote the article and given her the credit, and for failing to do that I do apologize. However, I think it is clear that I did not try to claim credit for them in the first place.

Now, if you would like to discuss the particulars of any of her points (or mine) I would be happy to do so.


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## utahhunter1 (May 3, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> fhalum said:
> 
> 
> > I read the article, but I fail to see how the thread title "Movement only promotes racism" is appropriate. Perhaps we have different definitions of racism.
> ...


I believe plainsman was exactly right on the issue in this paragraph and still do as did many others, but I began thinking and thought of how many times has the idea been brought up and supported of buying only american made products. Is this not suporting our own also. How many of us try to do this and have made statements about buying american only, I have. If you believe as I do that if we are going to solve the problem of racism we need to be color blind.
Plainsman you made the statement that if we are going to get along and solve this problem that we need to stop focusing on the race and religion of someone and see them only as americans and I believe that is 100% true but if you believe in trying to support and buying american whenever possible is that not a double standard amongst ourselves and maybe we should not be focusing on eachothers countries of origin but just seeing people as people and suport buying the best products no matter it comes from. I just see this as a double standard, but maybe I am wrong.


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## Bustem36 (Feb 5, 2008)

fhalum said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> > fhalum, your making my point. People back then should have been color blind too. There never should have been slavery. Many things based on race never should have happened.
> ...


This argument is getting sickening...I believe a lot of there "disadvantage" is caused by themselves whether it be black, mexican, asian, or even WHITE". Yes kids are born into poor uneducated families but there are more grants and scholarships for these people than any other group. Racism goes both ways and people have to remember that slavery has happened since the beginning of man. This doesn't make it right but it is what it is. No body alive today deserves any special treat because of what happened then.

Day to day I bet 90% of these people wake up and play the card of discrimination. black, white, asian, mexican, or a mix of any...If you work hard and carry yourself well people will give your respect and the ones that don't screw'em. I know many so called "racist" people that somehow have black and asian friends. Why? because they are good people to be around then the next gangster chip on his shoulder kid comes along who doesn't deserve respect because of his actions and all of a sudden every white person is racist.

If people want to buy all black or all American goods so be it. Just realize what you did and that it goes both ways.

OH and another thing no one should be "African" American or "Asian" American....you are just American...unless of course you hold dual citizenship.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plainsman you made the statement that if we are going to get along and solve this problem that we need to stop focusing on the race and religion of someone and see them only as Americans and I believe that is 100% true but if you believe in trying to support and buying American whenever possible is that not a double standard amongst ourselves and maybe we should not be focusing on each others countries of origin but just seeing people as people and support buying the best products no matter it comes from. I just see this as a double standard, but maybe I am wrong.


I see your point, but we have international borders that separate nations. We try to get along with them, but at the same time we are competing with them. With America's minorities we are not trying to compete, we are trying to see them as just another American. I often buy which one is the better product, and often I see things close to the same value and then without doubt I buy American. Sometimes it's hard to know the difference if you don't pay close attention. Years back I purchased a Toyota Camry after owning a Chevy (can't remember the model) but I was struck by the fact that the Camry had more American labor in it than that particular model of Chevy. 
I don't blame blacks for buying from a black company, but I do blame our government for giving preference when spending our tax dollars. If they want to buy black great, but why make a movement of it. That draws attention and makes it look racist. Just do it. Nothing wrong with a white guy that wants to spend his own money at black businesses either, or white for that matter. On a personal level it's no ones business what business or where others spend their money.
I just think there is a lot of reverse prejudice. I don't care if they have a black college fund, but if some guy started a white college fund they would be on him in seconds. I just would like everyone who is American to have a level playing field. Don't complain about a black guy doing the same thing a white guy does and don't complain about the white guy doing the same. I would like everyone to think race means nothing.


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## fhalum (Oct 7, 2008)

Plainsman said:


> I just would like everyone who is American to have a level playing field. Don't complain about a black guy doing the same thing a white guy does and don't complain about the white guy doing the same. I would like everyone to think race means nothing.


As far as wanting everyone to have a level playing field, I absolutely agree with you one hundred percent. Scratch that, I agree with you one hundred TEN percent.

I think where you and I disagree is about HOW to make that happen. By definition, the level playing field is simply not a reality. I think it's safe to say that it wasn't present at day one in this country (except maybe before whites in general arrived, but I suppose I'm not familiar enough with native peoples' history prior to European arrival, so I can't say for sure one way or another.) Either way I certainly don't think we're there now, as is evidenced by the fact that this thread is here to begin with.

As I understand it, your preference would be for everyone to be "color blind." Treat everyone the same, regardless of who they are or where they are from or what they look like. I agree with you that this SOUNDS really great, but I think where you and I differ is that I do not believe that is an effective way to level the playing field.

Since you and I have white privilege, it's easy for us to say "don't play the race card," or "just get over the whole race thing," or even, "be proud of your race, but don't flaunt it," etc. That's because we don't have to face the race issue every day of our lives. However, people of color have to do this day in and day out. To ignore that, and to ask them to ignore it, doesn't help. Whether we want it to or not, in our society, race DOES matter.


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## utahhunter1 (May 3, 2009)

I know what you mean plainsman I deal with it almost every day as my wife is hispanic and most of her family memebers are here in utah illegally. Everything they do is based on racism it seems. I have noticed the older generation is not as bad as the younger generation. They will sit and say one racist thing after another about whites and african americans and the minute someone disagrees with them or goes againts them that person is automatically a racist. My wifes younger brothers are constantly in trouble, they are in gangs and involved in drugs and evertime they get in trouble its either well the teacher is a racist or the police officer is a racist and everybody feels bad for them and if myself or my wife say anything about it being there own fault we are automatically accused of being racist and going against the family by her entire family, aunts uncles cousins everybody. It is enough to drive you crazy. They will sit and trash talk america and how everyboday is so racist here and glorify mexico yet there here??? You say one negative fact obout mexico you are racist and this is how they see and react to things 24/7 it is how they base their lives and see the world at all times. The whole race issue will continue forever untill we all stop thinking like this. And fhalum I see the point you are trying to make and agree with you on alot of it but in reality it will never change the way things are. And until we see people just as people and forget all of the crap that we have done to eachother it will never end.


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