# Rwanda, 12 years ago



## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/afric ... index.html
(If you go to this link, you will find a video link to the Rwanda genocide: http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/ )

Today is the 12th year reunion for the end of the genocide in Rwanda which killed amost 1,000,000 Tutsis.
I was in high school when the Rwandan genocide occurred 12 years ago and I must admit I probably wasn't paying much attention to things political. Do any of you recall how the media handled this siutation? Where was the U.S.?

I hate to suggest any movie to study any piece of history, but I might suggest two movies that portray what happened in Rwanda during those years. They are; _Hotel Rwanda _and _Sometimes in April_. I would like to know if these movies are accurate and any other observations about the Rwandan genocide.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1114015/posts

this is critical of richard clark and clinton for there inaction but I think its fair criticism.

The real shame is that a similar thing is going on today in Darfur and again we do very little. If they don't have oil or a trade realationship with us than neither side of the aisle wants to take much of a stand.

http://www.darfurinfo.org/oldnews.html

take alook at this and ask yourself why we don't step in and do more :******:

more evidence that UN means "useless nitwits" they wring their hands and posture and never ever do anything effectively.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

I've not seen "Sometimes in April" but I did watch "Hotel Rwanda". Hollywood is Hollywood but sometimes they do get things correct. From everything I have read the account of Paul Rusesabagina in "Hotel Rwanda" is very accurate. I thought Cheadle did a excellent job of portraying a man that wasn't macho by any means but determined to do the right thing.


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## arctic plainsman (Aug 21, 2005)

I also have seen both the movies mentioned, and am still horrified.
The other night I watched a movie about the last days of Hitler, and felt much the same way.
I guess I was thinking we Americans live very differently than the rest of the world. It's not my place to speak for everyone on this Forum, but I'm not under the impression that any of us wants to machete kids or anybody else because they are different. Really, I don't think I've got a whole lot of interest in dropping off a bomb at the Methodist church, on my way to the Baptist church this morning either.
It has been explained to me before how propaganda is used to beat hatred into peoples heads, and I get it, but not really. Really now, some of you guys have already been out and about this morning, and saw folks going into churches you wouldn't go to, (doesn't matter why.). Now try to reason with yourself, "Those folks should all be killed", and picture the folks in the parking lot of that church. I'd say that was the definition of mental illness. 
I've asked before, how on earth could you reason, negotiate, compromise, or anything else with people that want to exterminate other social groups of people in their entireity? (sorry about the spelling of that last word.)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Seabass, I wish I could remember movies better but I don't. I do remember watching the television and thinking this could not happen in the world today. I wish the UN would get off their duff and do something worth while. If they don't do something soon they will become irrelevant. As much as I dislike the UN there are some useful things they could do.
I think the political scene has become so hostile that one party will jump on another and make any good thing they do look bad if they can get mileage out of it. That leaves them not daring to do much. No one wants to stick their nose out.
The UN did little in Iraq, so we stepped in ourselves. We have taken much criticism for that, and I am afraid many countries would criticize us if we stepped into Rwanda, no matter how noble the cause. We hear the term nation building for going into Iraq, and I am afraid many nations would see the same thing if we went into Rwanda. We all would like to help, but with all the crying about the cost of the war in Iraq I am afraid we would hear more of the same. I wish the rest of the world would pay their fare share in money and effort into a real UN initiative when innocent people like this die. 
I watched another movie just a couple years ago that reminded me of the people escaping genocide. I don't remember the nation it was intended to depict, but the movie was Tears of the Sun I think. 
We may run short of money, we may run short of food, but unfortunately things like this depict that we will never run short of evil in men's hearts.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

arctic plainsman, 
I understand what you are saying but in my opinion it is not mental illness but mental programming. Remember it wasn't that many years ago that we had leaders that were determined to remove native Indians in America from the face of the earth and, we had people in chains as slaves. Our thinking has evolved so that today we know that was wrong, and fortunately for us it was a rapid process. If there ever was a case for evolution it could be said that our morals and mental understanding does constantly evolve with time. Countries such as Rwanda are still pretty much prehistoric in their value of life and their ability to create a society that is able to bind all their people together into one united country.


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

Gohon said:


> Countries such as Rwanda are still pretty much prehistoric in their value of life and their ability to create a society that is able to bind all their people together into one united country.


You say that but at the same time, German "Christians" were doing this to the Jews not to many years ago...just like Artic Plainsman mentioned (re-reading your statement, maybe I dont' understand what you are saying Gohon.)

Plainsman, the situation in Rwanda seems like such a clear, cut-and-dried case for US to get over there and intervene. It doesn't strike me as being similar to the Iraqi situation. The Rwandans, evidently, were begging for global intervention (you are right, the UN was a disgrace).

It seems to me that the media is to blame for not bringing this more to the attention of common citizen in the U.S. Maybe I'm naive, but I would think that if Americans saw what was going on in Rwanda, that they would push for US intervention.

I would say that the "less Hollywood" movie of the two is Somtimes in April... It's a movie to see.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Bobm said:


> http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1114015/posts
> 
> this is critical of richard clark and clinton for there inaction but I think its fair criticism.
> 
> ...


So my question is... why is it that only the United States that has to get involved to "Police" the world? Why can't other countries send troops in to those situations? The US gets all the negative publicity, the U.N. is supposed to be the world oversight body but are impotent at best, and everyone else in the world has the big mouths objecting to US actions. Well here is a great chance for the US to say... "We are fighting a war on terror currently. We DEMAND the world step up and send troops in to stop this atrocity."

There is a whole seperate perspective, that the world doesn't care, because they see these people as one step up from savages and tribes of ignornant warring factions. The perception is that that area of the world is tremendously overpopulated and a faster rate mortality can only help the region. I read that perspective somewhere on another board. It was interesting thought provoking stuff... and it led to lots of flames..

Stuff to chew on...

Ryan

.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> It seems to me that the media is to blame for not bringing this more to the attention of common citizen in the U.S. Maybe I'm naive, but I would think that if Americans saw what was going on in Rwanda, that they would push for US intervention.


You have a good heart seabass, and I agree something should be done. I just think that we are already spread so thin that if we become economically crippled we will not be able to help anyone. If the rest of the world would step up to the plate with us, we could do something through the UN. Where is Germany and France now? They criticized us for not giving more after the tsunami, but where are they now? I would guess there are atrocities happening in the world now that we don't even know about. Depressing thought isn't it?


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> You say that but at the same time, German "Christians" were doing this to the Jews not to many years ago...


And how did they do that.............. by removing children from families at a very early age, placing them in state run schools and re-programming their minds. Extermination of the Jews was merely a pretense to launch an attempted at global dominance by Hitler, not genocide as a result of ignorance or culture. In other words, his actions were premeditated with only one goal in mind ......world power. The killings in Rwanda were the result of mental programming that had been passed from generation to generation where all life, including their own had little to no value.

What I'm trying to say and not doing a very good job of it I guess, is these things have been happening for generations due to cultures that do not progress as rapid as our own did. We also must pick and choose for various reasons as to which countries we as a nation should be involved in. Why intervene in Bosnia and not Rwanda I don't really know. Personally I would of rather seen the US get involved in Rwanda and had left Bosnia to the Europeans to resolve.


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

I don't see it Gohon. The Holocaust was genocide pure and simple. I don't think Hitler looked at the extermination of the jews as necessary for world donination. I don't believe he was worried about the Jews as a people stopping his military conquests. In his sick mind he wanted a panacea where everyone was pure-blooded and ayran.



> The killings in Rwanda were the result of mental programming that had been passed from generation to generation where all life, including their own had little to no value.


I agree that the killing of the Tutsi was "mental programming", but people were stirred to action especially due to an anti-Tutsi radio program and government that was pro Hutu. This division between the two started as a result of Belgian colonial control where the Belgian govt. instilled an artificial division to create the two tribes. It wasn't some division that they had passed from generation to generation for eons back. Finally, I don' t believe that either Tutsis or Hutus or any person from any small African village would agree with you that their life had little to no value. I was lucky enough to visit many small poor villages in Tanzania for one month and the people struck me as having similar life goals as us (getting an education, albeit basic; getting a job, getting married and having and providing for kids). Seems like the circle of life is just as powerful here as anywhere else.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

Seabass, we're getting off subject here but Hitler chose the Jews so as to have something to point a finger at rally the German people into a frenzy. He needed someone to blame for the ills of Germany that were going on when he came into power. The Jewish people stopping his army wasn't even a thought. If there hadn't of been a population of Jews in Germany at that time he would have chose another race. It's all in the history books if you care to look it up.

You're right that the Tutsis or Hutus would not agree that their lives had no or little value but apparently they didn't think much of the others persons life now did they. Had that not been the case then the slaughter would not have occurred. That is the whole point and I doubt that much has changed there. In fairness I value my life a hell of a lot more than I value yours, but I do value your life and I'm sure it is vice versa. This is not a big issue with me and if you don't agree with my opinion then fine but that is my opinion on the matter. We'll just have to agree to disagree.


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

Gohon, I don't think we disagree that much. It's just that your early comment, "The killings in Rwanda were the result of mental programming that had been passed from generation to generation where all life, _including their own had little to no value_" isn't what you are saying now, it appears to me. But you are right... off topic.


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