# Rut



## 11394 (Oct 25, 2006)

I live in northern michigan and have a dumb question.I'm 51 and just got back into deer hunting about 12 yrs ago.I've been very successful. We have had an early cold snap and a full moon coming on nov. 5. No one has ever explained to me how to figure the rut! Does the moon set the time? If so is peak the week before and after the full moon?


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

That's a great question.

Moon? 
Weather?
Photoperiod?

What brings on the rut?


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

My understanding is it is the shortening of daylight hours that trigger the rut.


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## HonkerExpress (Sep 23, 2005)

Its all about the Weather up North. If it stays warm, it will push back the rut. When it gets cold, thats what gets em going. The Moon Phase plays into it a bit, but for the most part, I beleive it has to do alot with the Coldness. Something must set them off, but you will get mixed responces on this one, cause eveyones climate is different. Last year we had warm weather, and most of the bucks shot up in my area weren't in rut yet during deer gun. Didn't start to notice alot of bucks in rut till into the Muzzle Loader season. I would have to say the weather/moon phase plays a very important role. I beleive its the first quarter moon after the first full moon in November up this way. :beer:


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

"The amount of light that affects the rutting period of white-tailed deer is thought to be in relation to solar light, not lunar light. Most deer biologists believe it is the decreasing number of hours of daylight during the fall (referred to as photoperiod) that triggers the rut in white-tailed deer. In northern regions above the 40th parallel whitetails generally breed when there are 9 1/2 to 10 hours of light per day. This photoperiodic change occurs once every year, roughly every 365 days, and so does the rut. But, the rut for deer herds in different areas may vary by days or weeks".

http://www.deerhunting.ws/article1.htm


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Me thinks the does trigger the rut :toofunny:

Sorry I just couldn't help myself. In the Northern part of ND it seems the most active rut is after the 10th of November. IMHO

Mule Deer in the Badlands somewhat later after the 20th or so.


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## 11394 (Oct 25, 2006)

Well everyone I live just a few miles south of the 45th parralel. If shortening of daylight hours is part of the formula. We have been having Nov. weather in October. Bow and rifle seasons here allow me to hunt one half hour before sun rise and one half hour past sun set. So far this year with all the clouds I've been lucky to get 10 minutes. Unless I hear a wise alternative I believe I'll start hunting rut Nov. 9 thru 14 as rut during bow. Then hunt rut Nov.15 thru 21 during rifle then switch tactics after the 22. All I can do is scare off the bucks. But can hunt food sources in dec. 1 thru Jan. 1 during remainder of bow. Sorry just not a muzzle loader.


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Honkerexpress: Not wanting to sound like a complete knowitall but........

Weather has nothing at all to do with the rut. Cold snaps only make the "rutting ritual" more visible cause the does are out feeding longer in the mornings/evenings. Warm weather surpresses deer movement....NOT the rut itself.

The rut is at the exact same time every year, and always will be. In the north the first does come into estrus (exclusively because of shortening daylight and yes the moon may alter the rut to a lesser degree) right close to the 10th of November. Peaks around 16th and begins to taper off...... Mark your calender it will happen on these dates this year and forever. Set in Stone. :wink:


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

Most biologists will tell you that the amount of day light, air temp, and other environmental factors will start the rut. Some fish spawn due to the photo period others spawn only due to water temp. For deer I think it is part of all the factors but photo period having the biggest influence on them. I have heard this year since the deer opener is not till the 10th (for ND) the posibility of the rut being over is being looked at, I'm not sure what exactly this is based on or if this is just talk or not. I have been told that one of the reasons deer can be jumpy during rifle season is due to the rut and that during muzzle season the deer are done with the rut and are not as jumpy. If this is right or not I'm not sure of. But I do know you usually do not see bucks with does this time of year. But after thanksgiving comes, bucks and does can be found together. So my vote is on the photo period.


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

the rut (actual breeding) will not be over on the 10th........it will barely be started. Thats one stupid rumor..ha!!! Look for the week after opening weekend to be hot and heavy. About Wednesday things will be full bore. ....Once again, Mark your Calender!! :wink:


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## Bison_Trax (Nov 7, 2006)

Actually the rut folows a very strict regiment to ensure the survival of the species. The phases of the moon have EVERYTHING to do with it. Roughly 8 out of every 10 fawns are born within one day (+/-) of the last quarter of the 6th set of moon phases (starting with a new moon and ending in the next new moon) which usually occurs around the end of June sometime. This is important because the fawn needs to be born in low-light situations to hinder night time predators' hunts, but early enough so they can survive the winter. Does have a very cut and dry gestation period; it lasts 199-200 days. If you count that number of days back...every year it lands on the night of the full moon in November. This part plays into the estrous cycle of the does. Night-time light kickstarts the estrogen production that begins as the result of PHOTOPERIOD (which is when bucks start to get curious because the does are just starting to stink). The bucks start to get active on their own as the result of both temperature, photoperiod and the big night light, which can fool huntings into a sort of "mock rut" if conditions are right, the bucks will gear up with their swollen necks, their grunts, scrapes, and their proud prancing, but they won't begin to act stupid until the does actually start stinkin'. If they don't have their big necks and the does come in heat, the'll still give chase and act stupid to the point where you can easily fool one into coming within range because bucks are like men, they'll take it when they can get it. This year's big night was actually last night on Nov 5th. I went out and watched as the bucks gave chase and grunted and did their thing. A lot of stupidity last night, kind of funny actually. Don't worry, it's not all done in one night. does will smell for a good ten days, bucks think they can still get some and will continue to chase. They'll continue to be stupid for another week or so.
:splat:


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Bisontrax, I don't know what state your from but We have another week here in ND before it gets hot and heavy. Photoperiodism is king of rut timing, Moonlight is secondary. Moonlight may "pull" the rut towards the nearest full moon (this year it was last night so expect a fairly normal rut timing) But length of the days is what triggers the onset of Estrus. Last night was not the "biggest" night here in ND. The bucks will be at peak "stupidest" around the 15th... :wink:


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## Bison_Trax (Nov 7, 2006)

Headhunter,
I'm from S.Central/SE ND to help get a sense of where I'm at. I also have a wildlife biology degree from the great (what used to be) NDSU-Bottineau. Go Jax.
True, as I mentioned prior, photo period tells a does body when to start its estrous cycle but moonlight drives its intensity. You are right in assuming the rut will still be going on around the 15th but most of the stupidity will be wearing off. That combined with hunting pressure will get some of the larger bucks to hole up a little earlier this year. There will be plenty of rut to dance around with and there are a ton of other things that will get deer stupid...when cold weather comes and the corn is all off, bigger bucks focus on hearding up which means they are pushing yourger, smaller bucks out. Bowhunters should be licking their chops because that means these loaner bucks are wandering around aimlessly and the bigger ones are staying out in the open during daylight hours to keep track of their "harrum"(sp). There are fewer places to hide and this causes territorial tension, also a big-buck-stupid-maker.
I think we were very fortunate about 4 years ago when the full moon fell on a first snow about two weeks into the estrous cycle. Big bucks doing dumb things for a good part of the season. Gosh, a calm big-flaked snow fall when I'm walking a tree row for that big buck just makes my ears perk and my spine tingle!
Good luck this year everyone.


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## Big Bux (Nov 7, 2006)

Settle down BisonTracks and headhunter.
You are both pretty much right on. just a time discrepency.

The Whitetail breeding period lasts longer than most people realize. Here in ND a few does are bred in October but the actual peak occurs in November and ends in December. Breeding rapidly increases the first 7 to 10 days of November (which is started by PHOTO PERIOD) then decreases quickly after the peak which which is between the 9th to the 12th of Nov. each year. 
These dates, as you both have mentioned, are affected by MOONLIGHT. I don't know about the timing of the rut in the Southern States but to those of you who want to know you can try to predict it the same way that I do. In 1983 I started taking notes on the deer that I hunt and the area that I hunt each day. I log the stand that I'm in, the deer I saw the weather conditions and the sunset time and the date. By comparing buck and doe sightings over a 9 year period I came to know the area's peak breeding time typically seems to be when the sun sets at 5:18...then add or subtract a day or two depending on what side of that date the full moon falls.
Simple, easy, and we all win. This year it will be Novemebr 10th according to my book...not the 6th or the 15th..sorry you two, you'll just have to split the difference....ask our state deer biologist about it...I'll bet I'm the closest!! HA!!!


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Big Bux, although you arrived at the date in a somewhat unigue way, your answer exactly matches what I have come to believe as the Gospel, as far as the rut anyway.

I had the good fortune of getting to know the head archaeologist at a state Indian museum. Since he's a scientist, you can safely assume he's very analytical, but he is also an AVID bowhunter, and a good one at that!
He, as you do, keeps a log detailing any important info observed on stand, and his 30-some years of data clearly shows that November 10th is almost ALWAYS the day of the most buck activity.

Now, having said that, I am not saying that is the day of the peak of the rut. I personally believe most receptive does are, in fact, receptive, a few days after that, but that is based solely on my opinion with no scientific data in hand to back it up. I just have noticed over the years that most breeding is complete here prior to our first gun season, which is always the Friday before Thanksgiving. In fact, I believe it is usually over (breeding) by the weekend before our Friday opener. That opinion is based on buck behavior during each of those weeks. Two weeks before the opener you NEVER see a mature buck without a doe (we have too many does on our property). But the week just before the opener most bucks are alone and looking, or briefly following to check a doe, but not glued to them like the previous week.

I have been watching these threads but didn't want to jump in, but your mention of Nov. 10th triggered a response. It is refreshing, however, to see how many here believe what I think is correct, in that weather, although it can affect the time of day deer are active, means nothing as to when the rut will "peak". A lot of guys here at home will actually walk you outside in their attempt to argue otherwise, but I can't find any scientific data to show it.


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## greatwhitehunter3 (Sep 15, 2006)

so will the rut still be on Nov 11th ive been watching a nice buck following a doe for the last week and wondering if it will still be like that...???


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Csquared, what state do you live?

I'm not going to argue about rut timing, I know whats going on in my area, but not in yours.

I've hunted Whitetails since 1990.

I bowhunted all last week (halloween - 3rd of Nov)

Saw many bucks running together, no does of course, Saw single bucks alone, all week...the loners were the big ones . (normal this time of year up here)

Today went out noticed some small bucks chasing hard.....again, no big bucks accompanying does. (normal for this area, no surprise to me)

I've only witnessed one hot doe in my life before the 10th of Nov.. that was last year.

Peak rut, as always (up here) will be between the 12 and the 17 of Nov.....If I had to narrow it down to one day you'd have to wrestle me to get an answer but it would be no doubt the 15th or 16th of Nov to see the most chasing rutting and stupid bucks standing out in the open. It doesn't really shift much , or at least not since 1990.

If you want to kill a bruiser buck , up in this area that is, You can almost leave your gun in the gun cabinet until after Veterans day. Cause your not missing anything up until that point or mainly after.


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## ND decoy (Feb 1, 2003)

My brother was going into stand today and saw a really nice buck out on the corn field running around like a bird dog. Well pretty soon 3 does stood up that were bedded in the field that he couldn't see. One or all of them was ready. It didn't take but a couple of minutes of sweet talking and he was showing her his deer sausage. So if it's not on yet it's getting real close.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Headhunter, I'm in IL. I would say your rut is not unlike our's. Like I said, it seems to hold true that one side or the other of the 10th is when most big bucks are seen, but I believe most does are receptive slightly after that. I would like to hear from some biologists, but I would be very surprised to hear that geographical location makes much of a difference, within reason.

We start seeing bucks that were otherwise scarce just before Halloween. My buddy killed one over 190 inches 10/28, and his neck was 30 1/2" around! I would post a picture if I knew how. Only dressed 220 lbs, but looked like a monster already.

Anyway, this is the week right now when bucks show up that we didn't even know we had. If I could only hunt one week it would be from 11/7 thru 11/13. I'm convinced that is the peak if you want to see alot of good bucks. Hard to tell what they'll do, but they will be visible.

However, I am just as stongly convinced that if your property allows you to scout from a distance (our's does NOT) than your best chance to kill a monster buck is the first week of October (when our bow season starts) because the bucks are much easier to pattern since they're still in their summer time habits. But things change by the middle of the month.

A little surprised to hear there were no does with the bucks you saw up to 11/3. My area might be slightly skewed because we have a ridiculous population. I've killed bucks over 200 lbs and over 160" on this property and have yet to see a buck that showed any signs of fighting, which tells me there are plenty of does for everyone, so maybe that's why every buck I see until this weekend has a doe with him. Biggest live buck I've ever seen was Thanksgiving day, 2 years ago, and he was NOT leaving the doe he was with, so she must not have been bred in the first estrus, which I think further confirms the number of does, but I could be way off base. I would love to hear other's thoughts.

As far as hot does, neatest one I ever saw was 3 years ago, second week of JANUARY. I never believed in the 3rd rut, but the biggest buck I saw that year chased that poor little doe around in a picked bean field with his nose up her butt just like on the videos, and the 4 other smaller bucks stayed out of his way, so I believe now!

If you're seeing bucks standing alone and in the open on the 15th and 16th then I think your situation is very much like our's. That tells me that they have had their way with the doe that they didn't let out of their site the week before, and are now looking for ones they haven't had yet. Sort of like 20 yr old humans!


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

No we do NOT see many or any bucks alone on the 15-16th of NOV.....thats when the rut is full tilt. .....

Last year I shot a 150" on the 10th of november, he was by himself , The first wave of hot does had not yet arrived.

Yes October is an excellent time to kill a particular buck.

Right now its the chasing period of the rut/soon to be the breeding period

I have a gun tag for MT, haven't even went over there yet......next week it will be good though.

Later

good luck hunting in Illinois.


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## 11394 (Oct 25, 2006)

Hey guys I've been convinced on the photo period. Bought several local mags here and they all said the same thing. Peak rut here in northern Michigan is the 14th. being center. The moon and weather are secondary influence. I hunt an area that is about 30 miles south of the 45th parralel.


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