# Lee Loader for someone who wants to start loading?



## ac700wildcat

I've heard a lot of people talking on here about the Lee Loader. Looked it up and it seems to be cheap enough. I am just wondering if i am going to get the same accuracy out of it that i get just buying factory ammo or will it be worse or better? I kinda want to get into the reloading so i can do a lot more shooting and save a few bucks. Is this a good place to start??

Right now i mostly shoot a 30-06 with 150gr bullets. Usually i can find boxes of federal around $10-$13 a box, will i be able to produce ammo cheaper than that.

thanks


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## Csquared

Wildcat, ask Clampdaddy what we think about shooting factory loads.

Yes, you will save money..per shot, but you'll shoot more and probably end up spending more. But you will have much better loads.

How can someone with the name 700wildcat not already be handloading?


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## ac700wildcat

Lol my name has nothing to do with any gun or even the Arizona Wildcats as a lot of people guess. Its actually the first real snowmobile i had back when i was like 14, an Arctic Cat 700 Wildcat. If i can shoot more and it costs less that is a good thing Will improve my accuracy and get me out of the house more. I already spend the money on factory ammo I may as well make my own and be able to shoot more. Was just wondering if the Lee Loader as simple as it seems will make quality rounds for me, and if I will be able to make consistant round too. I guess all I'll be out is $30 plus whater it costs for supplies. Even then i can shoot for a while. Any suggestions on what kind of powder to use????


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## ac700wildcat

Here's another ? i just thought of as I was looking at these on their webpage. If i buy the original Lee Loader for a 30.06 do i need to buy anything else with that to start loading other than the bullets, brass, etc. Also can i buy other parts for it to load something like a 22-250 or would i be better off buying a whole other kit for a 22-250.

thanks


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## Csquared

Now I understand.

I'm not familiar with the Lee so I'll leave others to discuss.

My first recommendation would be not to look at this from a cost standpoint. If you want to seriously get into handloading it will cost you some cash to get set up.

Lots of info in the minds of the regulars here. I've seen a few of these sites and am still impressed with the lack of machismo on this site. I've been doing this long enough to instantly see the BS, and it's notably lacking here. That's why I'm here!

Gohon, Horsager, Plainsman (just to name a few) are a good source of knowledge. Use them.

Buy some reloading manuals first. You will learn a LOT from them. What you WON'T learn is how fast your bullet goes when loaded with the amount of powder they specify. Their numbers are as optimistic as the Democrats' plans for the next two years!

So AS SOON AS YOU CAN AFFORD IT.....buy a chronograph. Not only will you learn actual velocities, but more importantly you will learn how consistent your loads are as powder charges are increased. You will learn how to judge chamber pressure by watching the standard deviations, and in most cases will see pressure signs long before they are high enough to be a problem.

So decide if you really want to commit to handloading. I wholeheartedly encourage it. If so, for about the cost of a nice rifle you can be set up with the equipment AND a chronograph, and you will not be sorry.

As to your specific '06 question, I don't load 150's, but H-4350 is awesome with 165gr bullets. It's the only powder I have tried that I can get 3000fps in 22" with no pressure signs.

Don't be bashful, and ask questions. Hopefully someone who lives near you will volunteer to help get you started. I expect you will soon discover that shooting is only HALF the fun!

Good luck!


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## clampdaddy

Hell yeah you should start reloading! First you should get a loading manual or two and start learning about the dos and don'ts of the process. Next I'd get a Lee Aniversary Reloading Kit. It comes with almost everything you need to get started and it'll only set you back about $70. Pretty much all you'll need that doesn't come in the kit is a case trimmer, a case cleaner, a powder trickler, and a set of dies. I suggest that you get a set of Lee dies aswell because they are finger andjustable and they come with a shell holder for the press. It's time consumeing but you will become a better rifleman. I'ts a huge confidence builder once you find the load that your rifle likes best and you know that every round in your rifle is exactly the same and will go exactly where it's supposed to as long as you hold up your end of the deal.
As far as what powder to use, I (my 30-06s) like IMR 4350 but if your rifle will shoot well with Hodgdon 4350 that would probably be a better way to go because it is less temperature sensitive than the IMR stuff.


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## Chestnut

I got my Lee Aniversary Kit a couple years ago. Granted that you get what you pay for, but they are a great value. I only spent a hundred bucks between the kit, a box of bullets, some primers, and a pound of powder, and have shot at least that much worth of 38 S&W. That's why I got into it in the first place, as they stopped loading it. Now, as you say, I spend a little more on shooting, but do a LOT more of it.


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## ac700wildcat

Do you think the anniversary kit would be the better thing to get instead of the classic lee loader? I guess it seem like you get a lot for the money with the kit. Thanks for the help so far. I really think i want to get into the reloading, it sounds like something a guy can do to pass some time and in the end shoot more and be more accurate. Any more advice would be great. I am going to be in cabela's or scheels in forks next week so ill have to grab a couple books and start reading.


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## clampdaddy

Definitley. Those Lee Loaders only come with a powder dipper instead of a scale and dispencer so you wont be able to tell how many grains of powder you're putting into your case. Also you have to beat the case into and out of the die with a hammer (aswell as primer insertion and bullet seating). A press is the way to go. You'll still have to get a case trimmer and case cleaner anyway. Good ammo can be loaded with one of those little kits but in my opinion they aren't worth it because after you load fifty rounds with it you're probably going to say "to hell with this!" and end up getting a proper set anyway.
As far as reloading manuals go, the Hornady manual has a great "getting started" section with alot of pictures and illuistrations that are helpfull. I also like the Nosler manual because they show wich powders/powder charges were the most accurate during thier testing and the results they show are usually very close to what I find during my load development. Infact, Whenever I load for a new cartridge I look at the Nosler book to pick the powder that gave the best accuracy at top velocity and I haven't been disapointed yet.


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## ac700wildcat

If I don't get the kit what would you suggest I get as far as putting together what i need to reload some 30.06, 22-250, and maybe next year some 300win mag. If i'm going to get into it I may as well do it right. Or should i just see if i like it with the cheaper kit and see how that goes. I'm sure if I get the cheaper kit and then decide to upgrade I could sell it and get better stuff but I just don't know much about reloading and don't know where to start. I don't have to have top of the line i just want to be able to make my own and do it in a halfways timely fashion.


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## ac700wildcat

Any brands to stay away from or things i should consider spending a little more money on to get something that works better. I just would like to learn as much as I can before i spend the money.

thanks


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## clampdaddy

Everybody has something to say about some brand of equipment but I think they're all good. I got my Lee set years ago because it was a cheap way to get started and I figured that when I got older and started makeing more money I'd "upgrade" to something nicer but I've been so happy with it I can't find a reason to change anything.


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## Gohon

Surprisingly the little Lee hand loaders work very well and are just as fast as a single stage press. I used one years ago when I first started loading and used it for some time before upgrading. One additional thing you will want is the dipper pack that Lee sells. There is something like 15 or 20 different size dippers in the pack and it comes with a sliding scale that shows all the brands of commonly used powder. When you match up the scale with a powder brand it will identify each dipper by number and how many grains of powder the dipper holds. I think the dipper kits are only about six or seven dollars. For general purpose reloading it works quite well. If you only use new brass or brass fired in your gun, you can turn out some pretty decent loads. The Lee kit, brass, bullets, primers, powder and a good reloading manual and you're set to go. Caution........... it is addictive and will cost you much more in the future.


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## clampdaddy

here's pretty much what you need

dies plus shell holder
press
case lube
primeing tool plus shell holder set
powder scale
powder measure
powder trickler
case cleaner
case trimmer
deburring/chamfering tool
primer pocket cleaner
case loading block (holds cases upright/keeps powder from spilling)
dial calipers

Hopefully someone will remind me if I've forgotten anything


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## Csquared

CHRONOGRAPH!


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## Robert A. Langager

Secret bank accout to hide reloading expenditures from significant other.

I got into it to save money on ammo as do many. Now I don't even think about what I save anymore, I just drool over the latest Midway/Natchez/MidSouth catalog thinking about the latest gizmo.

Anyhow, there is a lot of value to be had in the reloading "kits" that the different manufacturers make. They pretty much come with everything you need to get started. I bought the RCBS Rockchucker Supreme kit many moons ago. Money well spent.


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## farmerj

Get yourself a C&R FFL. It will get you better pricing at Midsouth, Midway, Brownell's and a few other places. Often times enough to pay shipping and then some.


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## Bubba w/a 45/70

the Lee classic kit is a neck size only deal, so don't try to put these loaded rounds into a different gun without making sure they will chamber easily. And then they might not rechamber in your rifle the next time. Something to keep in mind.

A press is a better option, as full length resizing can easily be done with theme.

The better press/tools can always be sold later, if you don't decide to keep spending more and more money on supplies for your new found habit!!! :beer: :lol:


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## Whelen35

I would get the aniversy kit. It will get you started with the tools that you will need. I really like the perfect powder measure and the lee hand priming tool. After I was off and running and thinking of improving or upgradeing my equipment, I then would purchase lee's new cast press that is massive and heavy duty. It will run you $60-70 but can handle any and all heavy duty things, and you can set up your anaversy c-type press for seating bullets or one of the other steps in reloading and it will speed up your rounds per hour rate quite a bit. The lee load all is a gteat tool for someone who loads a little and does not want to get into reloading a large ammount of ammo and only for one gun. This setup will allow you to get into a lot of the reloading things that will actually allow you to tinker and tweek loads easly and time wise be efficient.


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## bwnelson

A lee loader is a "gateway drug". Try it, you'll like it ... then you'll want more ... of something you don't have ... so you NEED MORE ... and you're thinking ...

"I don't have a problem, I can quit anytime"

And then you get an RCBS Rockchucker Supreme ... a great value at ~ $250 ... noticeably better than the Lee Aniv kit ... especially the scale IMHO.

Of course I do use the Lee Dippers to approximate the desired charge and trickle into the scale ... BEST $6.99 a reloader could spend.

But after the Rockchucker kit ... you realize you NEED a dial caliper. (Which you REALLY need ...) ... Then a case trimmer ...

You ABSOLUTELY need a chrony ... or access to one at the local gun club ... so long as nobody shoots the dang thing ...

It only gets worse from there. I found that a stoney point OAL gauge and bullet comparator set was a real easy way to get a perfect setting for bullet seating on the press.

But, in the meantime, you'll shoot lots. Learn a ton about ballistics. Blush with embarrassment at what you used to think about shooting, range, distances. (My big revelation was WIND DRIFT). In no time you'll end up with MUCH better ammo for your rifle than you can buy over the counter.


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## Csquared

Sure looks like you came to the right spot, Wildcat!

Before you buy anything you really owe it to yourself to consider RCBS equipment. There is as good, and sometimes better equipment available, but I have made it a point to use their stuff as much as possible due to their INCREDIBLE customer service.

I could go on and on about them, but all you really need to know is you only have to buy an RCBS tool once. If you break a part, lose a part....doesn't matter, they will NOT take your money, but will send you anything you need in about 3 days.


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## bwnelson

OH one BIG downside to the Lee Anniversary Kit ... the Lee Auto Primer.

the Auto Primer comes with major serious bad chicken blood mojo warnings about using with Federal Primers.

I happen to really like Fed 210 match grade primers. Reason enough for me not to recommend the lee kit with the sub grade scale and auto primer vs the RCBS product.


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## clampdaddy

Is there something I should know about my Lee auto primer?  I use federal primers in most of my loads and haven't had a problem. I like my li' ol' lee powder scale too. Its made out of a phenolic material so it wont bend if dropped. Like Lee says " if it didn't break, it's still accurate."


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## ac700wildcat

Wow thanks for all the replies guys and keep em coming. Im definately gonna buy the anniversary kit, but i'll prolly have to wait til after xmas. I will be in Forks Thursday tho so i'll at least buy a few books then and start reading. I'll probably be bak in the reloading section on here quite a few times askin more ?s. I'm glad you guys are willing to share some of your knowledge with me its been a good help. Looks like if i spend the $113 on a book and $40 on a die set for the 30.06 and buy some brass, bullets, powder, and primers ill be on my way for around $200.


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## Burly1

If you do a search on "reloading" you'll be able to see some really good discussions on a whole slew of topics. Just thought I'd mention it, since you seem to have been bitten by the bug. Always reload from a manual and never use someone elses reloads without testing them first. Burl


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## bwnelson

Clampdaddy,

Bought a lee anniv kit as a birthday present for a friend that wanted to start reloading. When going through the instructions and manuals with him the lee primer literature had a specific warning about detonating federal primers. Said "sorry man, you got to be getting some CCI 200's".

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog ... mtool.html

Users have reported that the primers in the tray of an Auto Prime can explode for various reasons, some of which include: a cocked primer, or an attempt to prime a case which has a primer already in place, or more than one primer on the punch, or priming a military case with the crimp not completely removed. Should an explosion occur, our tests have demonstrated that safety glasses will normally prevent serious injury to the user if CCI or Winchester primers are used, because the explosion is minimal. Other primers, however, can explode with sufficient force to seriously injure the user, or persons nearby. We do not take any position with respect to the quality or performance of primers available on the market. *However, only those primers manufactured by CCI or Winchester are recommended for use in the Lee Auto Prime*, and when loading those primers, safety glasses should always be used. No other primers should be used with the Lee Auto Prime.


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## Chestnut

I've "double primed" a couple times with various CCI primers and haven't had one go off...
Yet. :-?

Probably the detonations happen when someone says "It ain't goin' in!" and starts flapping the lever real hard. :x


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## ac700wildcat

Got myself a couple manuals today when i was in Forks at Scheel's. One is caliber specific for the 30.06 showing different loads for it from 110gr up to 220, I thought that was pretty interesting. Then I started looking through the other manual and started reading from the front. Wow I have learned a lot in the first 50 pages. There are so many things in there I wouldn't have thought of. The manual im reading is called Lyman's 48th Edition Reloading Handbook. It was like $18 and the other caliber specific was $8. I wanted to buy the Hornady book but it was $50 and wasn't quite in my budget beings xmas is comin up and I haven't bought a single gift yet. I spose I'll keep reading and sometime after xmas I'll order the Lee Anniversary Kit. Thanks for all the help once again, I'm gonna be askin a lot of ?'s so be ready. LOL


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## Robert A. Langager

I love to read reloading manuals. The caliber specific one must be from Loadbooks USA. They take all of the load data from all of the manuals from the bullet and powder manafacturers for that caliber. They are pretty handy and cheap, plus you don't have to buy one of each of the manuals from Lee, Speer, Lyman, Hornady, Swift, Barnes, Winchester, Alliant, Hogdon, Vitavouri (sp), IMR, etc.

I used only one manual for many years, Speer. I just recieved the Lee and Sierra plus two of the Loadbook USA this week from MidwayUSA. They are my bedside/bathroom companions now.


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## ac700wildcat

Yip thats the company that made the caliber specific book that I bought. Looks like it will provide a lot of information on building a load. I think to start I'll just try making what i normally shoot and see how that goes. Just wish I could buy everything and start right now. I wouldn't mind working up something like a 125gr 30-06 and go shoot some yotes.


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## Robert A. Langager

Wildcat,

I stumbled across this and thought of you.

http://tinyurl.com/y79pyd

Keep an eye on Ebay when you are ready to buy. Very good deals can be had on reloading equipment/supplies there.

Robert


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## ac700wildcat

Hmmmmmm I think I better do my checkbook cuz thats like half off and he's only reloaded 500rds. I just emailed the guy to see if there are dies as well. I think if there are some for what i need or what i might want to get in the future that I'm not going to be able to pass it up. Thank you for posting that Robert. I looked on ebay the other night and didnt' see that on there. Guess itsa good thing people are watching out for me. LOL


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## ac700wildcat

Hmmmmmm I think I better do my checkbook cuz thats like half off and he's only reloaded 500rds. I just emailed the guy to see if there are dies as well. I think if there are some for what i need or what i might want to get in the future that I'm not going to be able to pass it up. Thank you for posting that Robert. I looked on ebay the other night and didnt' see that on there. Guess itsa good thing people are watching out for me. LOL


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## Robert A. Langager

I do not think there are dies. Dies are relatively cheap and are plentiful on Ebay too. I would recommend the Lee Deluxe dies. You get thefull length sizer, neck sizer, bullet seater, shell holder and a powder scoop all for about $25. The neck sizer is a good way to go as your brass will last longer and the cases will be "fire formed" to your particular chamber.

Robert


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## ac700wildcat

Nope there aren't any dies. He has them for sale on other auctions and they are pistol dies anyways. I had planned on ordering the deluxe set from lee when i get my kit.


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## clampdaddy

Robert A. Langager said:


> I do not think there are dies. Dies are relatively cheap and are plentiful on Ebay too. I would recommend the Lee Deluxe dies. You get thefull length sizer, neck sizer, bullet seater, shell holder and a powder scoop all for about $25. The neck sizer is a good way to go as your brass will last longer and the cases will be "fire formed" to your particular chamber.
> 
> Robert


I agree. The neck sizeing die is handy to use on brass thats been fired in your gun because you don't have to lube the cases. If you shoot an autoloader you need to full length size or possibly use a small base die. I only have two autoloading centerfire rifles but I've had good luck with standard full length dies.


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## Csquared

Hey Clampdaddy, Robert, etc. Do you guys really think neck sizing is important? I used to, but since I've bought case tumblers lubing is no longer a problem, and if you have multiple rifles in the same cartridge neck sizing will cause you to be a little more "organized".

I have tried to prove neck sizing is better but can't. I do it with some of my guns; .17mach4, .300 whisper and tight-necked chambers to name a few, but I have never been able to see a difference in accuracy in any of the rifles I've tried both with. I'm also slightly skeptical that, when properly done, full length sized brass gives up much in longevity to neck sized only brass.

Would be interested to hear your personal results. Thanks in advance.


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## Robert A. Langager

Csquared,

I cannot really say that I am much of an expert. I went the neck sizing route based on suggestions from the resident reloading guru (perhaps he will chime in here).

I have only loaded for my .308 (I do load for my 9mm and .44 mag) and haven't done anything other than neck size. So I cannot really say whether or not it produces better results.

I like the fact that it is a lube-less step and the brass does last longer. In theory it should work better as the brass is sized to your particular chamber.

Robert


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## bwnelson

I use FL dies myself and back them off a couple turns to neck size by "partial resizing". Best of both worlds.


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## stainless

I bought the lee anniversary kit about 3 months ago. Im very happy with it even though Im constantly upgrading components because Im so addicted to this loading hobby now. Before I started loading a few months ago, I would go to the range a couple times a year with about 2 boxes of factory .308 ammo. Now that I reload I have only missed 3 saturday's in 3 months at the range and Im shooting at least 60 rounds per trip and as many as 98 rounds in a day. Thats a ton of shooting in a day with a bolt action but I make a full day out of it and have a blast making more empty brass.

My savage 10fp .308 20" barrel shot the best groups with factory 150gr federal premium ammo........roughly 1 inch groups at 100 yrds.I thought that was outstanding at the time. My 2nd or 3rd trip to the range after I started handloading I was getting 1 ragged hole with 4 shot's, I always seam to get a flyer with one of the 5 shots. I guess Im trying to say, you will probably fall in love with reloading and you'll take notice of the accuracy improvements far more than the cost savings. As you can see in my post, Im far from saving money with all the shooting Im doing. lately.The more I shoot, the better it gets. Every time I find a load that shoots tight groups, I want to make them even tighter which leads to trying better/different bullets, primers ,brass and reloading tools. Good luck , Im sure you'll be more than happy with your new hobby.

Things I upgraded to from the anniversary kit

replaced the safety scale with a hornaday.The Lee was probably accurate but it's pretty cheap in quality by comparison and I had a hard time reading the tenth grain part of the scale. It's also easy to bump the scale and throw off your settings.

went from lee dies to forster bench rest dies.Didnt have any problems with the Lee neck sizing die but the bullet seating die would never give me a consistant bullet seating depth.

didnt come with a trickler so I bought one,a must have in my opinion


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## clampdaddy

Csquared said:


> Hey Clampdaddy, Robert, etc. Do you guys really think neck sizing is important?


I don't necisarily think that neck sizeing is important, I just like the fact that it removes two steps from my reloading procedure.
Useually I'd clean my cases before and after sizeing them. Once to get any crud off that could possibly scratch/dirty-up the inside of my dies, Then once again after sizeing to get the case lube out of the necks and off of the body of the brass. So I cut out the lubeing of cases and one cleaning cycle. Plus I don't have to go back and clean the media out of the flash holes after the second cleaning, so I guess it really saves me three steps. I only neck size for my varmint/target loads because I load more of it and I don't mind if the bolt is a little stiff to close at the range or when I'm popping qround squirrels, but all of my big game ammo is full length sized.


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## Csquared

Well said. I totally agree.

I know it's recommended, but I have never cleaned before sizing, and have never regretted it. Most important thing is die adjustment. One needs to take the time, and buy the equipment necessary, to be sure the shoulder is just GENTLY touched by the sizing die. Case stretch is kept to a bare minimum that way, bolt almost always closes as if it was a factory load, and any technical loss of accuracy potential will never reveal itself in your groups unless your rifle shoots better than most here are capable of shooting it.

Another thing about die adjustment. I know we've all heard how important it is to keep in mind that every rifle's chamber is different. Well I saw this first hand many years ago. Most times people will get away with setting up their sizing die just as the directions explain. But that can (and eventually WILL) lead to disaster in rare cases if you don't pay attention. I have a .280 with a "deep" chamber. Shoots GREAT, but after a couple ALMOST total case head separations it forced me to do what I was too lazy to do before. I don't remember how far the shoulder was being pushed out, but it was ALOT, and the head was separating on the 3rd shot. Point is, after the die was set up properly the problem went away. Now I have a .280 Imp. (sort of  ).

I tumble cases for about 1/2 hour after sizing to get the lube off, or overnight if I want 'em to look pretty for some reason ( I REALLY like nickel plated brass, even though a little rough on equipment), and although not necessary, I usually trim each loading.

Like you said, it is nice to avoid some work in large volume applications, and I must confess it is nice to neck size for my varmint guns when I'm loading 1000 at a time to get ready for a prairie dog trip, so in that case I like to use Lee collet dies. That coupled with some H-335 (or any ball powder) makes for some pretty fast loading.

Thanks again for the info!

Good luck, Wildcat. Could've used your snowmobile here to deer hunt last weekend!


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## Robert A. Langager

Csquared,

I am only a slightly better than novice reloader. What do you mean by setting up your die properly? I only know the "RCBS Instructions" method.

Robert


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## Csquared

You need to precisely measure the location of the case neck/shoulder junction, relative to the case head, AFTER firing. Then use that info to set up your die. You want the die to be as low in your press as possible while only changing that measurement ever so slightly...or no more than .002", I believe.

You're basically just "bumping" the shoulder back enough that it won't contact the shoulder of the chamber, but it almost will. While doing that, you will also be sizing the body of the case.

There are cheap ways to gauge this, but I prefer to know EXACTLY, so I use a bullet comparator attachment on my caliper, and use the appropriate caliber comparator that BARELY fits over the case neck, but there are a number of effective ways to do it.

If you aren't interested in knowing the number, the same result can be achieved by trial and error. Set your die way too high, and gradually lower it, chambering the case after each attempt. You should feel some resistance as the bolt is closed UNTIL you find the proper setting. When found, the bolt should close without effort. But to do it that way you have to be careful to do it a LITTLE at a time. Watch the "lube ring" on the neck that will be left after sizing. When it gets close to the neck/shoulder junction, start making very small adjustments.

Remember to "square" the die before locking it in place for good, and you shouldn't ever have to touch that die again, for that rifle anyway.

Hope I was able to help.


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