# Pheasants, Cattails and Pointers - Question



## Aythya

I am considering getting an English setter or a Brittany next year. But as I have never had a pointing dog I know nothing about hunting with one. I have always owned retrievers.

On Friday I hunted pheasants in extremely heavy cattails. As my lab worked deep into the heavy cover and rooted out birds that were buried in the cattails I wondered how I would hunt pheasants in this situation with a pointer.

How do you guys with pointers hunt pheasants when they are in this kind of cover?


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## dfisher

Well, I don't know about pointers, but my farmer buddy, Rodney, has a Springer that burrows under the cattails and roots them out. 
That and I think a lot of them run and weave around infront of you and a dog in cattails. Maybe a pointer would pin them down, but I know that they run around and infront of Bill the Chessy and me.

Good luck,
Dan


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Well, I will say it is different. Hunting behind a Setter you have to be more concious of where the dog is, and know when he or she locks up. My setters work awsome in heavy cover, the male gets in and bullys around more then the female, but the female hunts smarter. She will use the trails and use the wind more. She will run the edge of cover and smell in. Only a handfull of times she has bypassed a bird that she would have gotten if she was in there bullying around. Once you hear your dog stop walk up there and shoot the bird. Also, the pointers may slow the pace, no running after a dog flushing birds wild.

Hope that kinda answers your questions it is hard to explain to someone how to read there dog, and how to hunt behind them. You have to feel them out.

Lastly, the best tool you can get for a Pointer is a beeper collar. If you can't hear your dog turn that on and you can tell where they are. It makes different tones when the dog is locked up.

Good luck.

Mike


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## TANATA

Pointer is the only way to hunt after you hunt behind a good one. Lots of flushers just run around until birds get up and don't use their nose. We know how tight birds can hold and I hate watching them get up behind you.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I told Tannor you just complimented him. He nodded a thank you!

Where are you from Aythya?


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## Aythya

I'm in Bismarck.

One of these days I am going to have to find someone with a pointer and tag along to see how it is done, especially late in the year when the birds are mired in the heavy cattails. I have only hunted behind a pointing dog on one ocassion for pheasants and that was in October and in CRP.


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## CDK

Most upland hunting I'd take a pointer anyday but not in a cattail slough, sorry you can not beat a good retriver in the cattails and yes I've hunted behind some very good pointers. There's times late season were dogs have to pull feathers on a bird to get them to take flight when there buried in the cattails.


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## dfisher

We find them in tree line deadfalls with high grass growing in it. I think Bill the Chessy actually sticks his nose in and bumps them with his snoot to get them to go...sometimes.

I don't know much about pointers, but aren't tight holding birds a pointer and pointer hunters version of heaven?

Good pointing, :lol: 
Dan


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Dan, yes. I running bird is a pointers worst nightmare. The dog is sitting where the bird was, while the bird is running away.

Aythya thats why I was asking. I was going to bring you along one of these days. You would be sold I can almost garantee that!


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## Aythya

Hunt4P&Y,

I'll take you up on your offer to tag along. Given that the season is over soon perhaps next fall would be best. I would like to see how this is done with pointers.


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## Springerguy

I own a springer and brittany so have the best of both worlds. I didn't think the pointer would work that well in cattails but started using him some last year in the cattails and discovered he worked just fine. However, I would not consider using a pointer without a quality beeper collar.

So which one is the better dog? Depends on the day, the conditions, and my mood. They both have +'s and -'s but I definetly enjoy having the two dogs. I'm not sure we'll own two dogs farther down the road but one is four and the other three so it should be a few years before I need to make the decision between a pointer and flusher.


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## wirehairman

Spent the weekend pounding cattails with my wirehairs for late season roosters. They tore them up, and as one poster mentioned, the tight sitting birds are great for pointing dogs. I think my old shorthair actually watched the Weather Channel waiting for the sloughs to freeze over so we could get in there.

A beeper collar is a must if the cattails are taller than waist high.


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## CDK

I'm not saying pointers can't hunt cattails, but I've seen flushers out produce pointers in cattials way too many times. For instance I was just out with my buddy who has a very good Visla and his dog went on point 5-10 times and my buddy could not get the birds up know matter how much kicking around he did, we both knew the birds were there. So evertime his dog went on point I started running my two chessies in front of him and sure enough they put birds in the air everytime, if they didn't catch them. The birds were holding very tight that day. Both my pheasant hunting partners are die hard pointer guys (shorthairs and vislas) and they admit my chessies out do the pointers almost everytime in the cattails. Normal cover the pointers will out produce my dogs  . O'well you can't have it all. As they say each to there own. :beer:


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

I hunted behind a Lab yesterday. We hunted the exact same cover I had hunted two days prior with my dogs. I didn't bring my dogs with yesterday. The days before we limited out with 6 and 9 birds yesterday we got 1. Not blaming it on the dog, but I know if I had mine with we would have had way more. It seems like my dogs hunt for the whole group not just one guy.


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## dfisher

How do you work your pointers in heavy cover? Into the wind or with a quartering wind?
Dan


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Into the wind most of the time, unless the birds are getting up wild. Then I will go with the wind. When I go with the wind my dogs will go down wind and then work back to me. Trap the birds inbetween me and them. Works great I have no idea how they learned to do that it isn't really something that you can teach them, but im not going to complain!!


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## dfisher

How does pointers handle grouse and partridge. I find that where I'm hunting, they are much wilder flushing than the pheasants are, right now. They don't seem to hold in as heavy of cover either. Maybe they see me coming and that's why they go up wild.
Do setters and pointers pin them down pretty good too?

Thanks,
Dan


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Only way to hunt them is to shoot them when you see them! :lol: I don't really hunt either not big enough numbers where I hunt to enjoy it.

But my male was from a National Grouse Field trail champ. Out of Minn. They hunt the grouse off of horseback. a week after I got him the father got hit by a car along with a couple other dogs he ran. Really sad.


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## Springer

> I'm not saying pointers can't hunt cattails, but I've seen flushers out produce pointers in cattials way too many times. For instance I was just out with my buddy who has a very good Visla and his dog went on point 5-10 times and my buddy could not get the birds up know matter how much kicking around he did, we both knew the birds were there.


I have had Labs, springers, GSP's and a Gordon Setter. All I can say is that they have all produced birds. 
Which was the best? It all depends on the day. If I were to hunt only pheasants though I would go with a springer based on the two that I have had they are the hardest working dogs in the cattails and open field.
As I get older though and with the younger boys that I have I will tell you that I really like the pointers. Gives you a little breathing room before the bird flushes (nice for the kids, no hurrying to keep up with the dogs).

If you are hunting Sharptails though you can keep your flushers and give me a pointer any day.

I will say though that when you put your pointer in front of the pointer that pointer would have eventually tracked down that bird and you wouldn't necessarily have to be running behind to catch up. 
The dog points you can walk up there. With the flushers your are either stopping the dog to catch up or are running to keep up.

You'd be surprised by how often the roosters hold in the cattails.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Springer. AGREED!

I actaully caught a bird last week. Dog pointing, look down and a rooster had its head in a little clump of cover and body hanging out. I set my gun down and grabbed it. IT HAPPENED! I picked him up showed my buddies then threw him up. We let him fly away figured he was in need of a second chance!


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## CDK

hunt4P&Y said:


> I hunted behind a Lab yesterday. We hunted the exact same cover I had hunted two days prior with my dogs. I didn't bring my dogs with yesterday. The days before we limited out with 6 and 9 birds yesterday we got 1. Not blaming it on the dog, but I know if I had mine with we would have had way more. It seems like my dogs hunt for the whole group not just one guy.


Was the lab any good, doubt it. I guess pointers must be best for every upland situation. :roll:


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Hummm well he had it trained by a pro. Yes it is a good dog. It beats the cover like no other. Many times with pheasants having something that bully's its way around in the slough isn't a good thing. I would much rather have a dog that sneeks around then scares the birds up. How many coyotes go out and bust through a slough and get there food? NONE they sneek around. Pointers do more sneeking from what I have found. Correct me if I am wrong. I guess they work better for me. Will I have a Lab? Yes, within the next two years I will have a lab, will I use it for upland? Some.


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## dfisher

Bill the Chessy will go along and stick his nose in those deadfalls that I mentioned before. The pheasants must be concentrating on him or something, as they'll come slipping out and then see me moseying up and off they go. We had three or four hens do that the last time we were out.

Dan


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## gonehuntin'

I'll take the pointer in heavy cover. The bird's hold well in thick cattails and if you train them to flush on command, there's no problem getting the birds up.

I also have mine wear a beeper and keep an orange vest on them so I can see and find them.

I don't believe that a flusher will out perform a pointer in heavy cover; I do though believe they're equal. It's just a matter of perference.


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## Coach529

I have a Gordon that works awesome in the cattails. She works hard, following both body and foot scent, and produces birds.

A beeper is a must have to find the dog when she goes on point on a bird.

IMO it is a horse a piece. A well trained, well bred flusher, or a well trained, well bred pointer are about equal IMO in cattails. The place the pointer shines is out on the prairie were it covers more ground!!


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## dfisher

How's those beeper collars work?

Thanks,
Dan


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## 870 rem

We have two black labs and this was there first year hunting. We use shook colars and when they start getting ahead of use we just hit the beep button on the collar and they come back. However they stared to point at more birds then flush. We were wandering if anyone of you know how a beeper collar will work if we are using the beep on there shook collars as a correction.


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## bholtan

hunt4P&Y said:


> Only way to hunt them is to shoot them when you see them! :lol: I don't really hunt either not big enough numbers where I hunt to enjoy it.
> 
> But my male was from a National Grouse Field trail champ. Out of Minn. They hunt the grouse off of horseback. a week after I got him the father got hit by a car along with a couple other dogs he ran. Really sad.


Who is the father of your pup?


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Ahhh I would have to pull the papers out. Jim Tande is the guy that runs them. If you really want to know PM me. It would take some digging I have no idea where they are.

870 On my female she responds to the beeper as a correction. I have never had to zap her. If I turn the beeper on she looks for me, and most of the time when I turn it on I am looking for her. Works out well. She is a really soft dog though. On my male he kinda does the same, but not to the same extent. Neither of them will break if on point and the beeper goes off. Which is awsome.


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## dfisher

I mean are the the tone feature on e-collars or isn't there a regular beeper unit that you can put on the collar that the transmitter will run?

What sorta thing is it for? As a locater for long ranging dogs or as a correction tool to get their attention and say "Hey, get back over here or GREAT JOB!" Something like that?

SIncerely,
Dan


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## gonehuntin'

dfisher said:


> I mean are the the tone feature on e-collars or isn't there a regular beeper unit that you can put on the collar that the transmitter will run?
> 
> What sorta thing is it for? As a locater for long ranging dogs or as a correction tool to get their attention and say "Hey, get back over here or GREAT JOB!" Something like that?
> 
> SIncerely,
> Dan


Ecollars are made both ways. Some have a audio beeper that beeps when you push a button. Only the dog can hear it. With all electric collars, you can add a beeper collar to them. This is a collar or a stand alone beeper that gives a loud audio BEEP or HAWK SCREAM when the dog stops moving and goes on point. They are used to locate the dog in heavy woods or other cover.


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## hunt4P&amp;Y

Yep, but the stand alone units you have to turn them on by hand, unless you have a collar that will run it. So you can't just buy the beeper. Also, some of the new Tri Tronics have a tic button which sends just a little tone to the dog. You can't hear it from a ways away it is ment soly as a correction.


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## USAlx50

hunt4P&Y said:


> I hunted behind a Lab yesterday. We hunted the exact same cover I had hunted two days prior with my dogs. I didn't bring my dogs with yesterday. The days before we limited out with 6 and 9 birds yesterday we got 1. Not blaming it on the dog, but I know if I had mine with we would have had way more. It seems like my dogs hunt for the whole group not just one guy.


Thats because the one guy with the shock collar is the one that matters most to him :beer: I'm not sure if he knows where his range is yet because he hasn't been pheasant hunting much so I try to keep him close to me. I should probably train him a little on that but Id rather continue normal retriever work.

Id like to see some good pointers work as well, Ive never hunted behind one that I would consider good and I think it'd be a blast. The only one that I have ever hunted with I would consider better then Remmy in CRP was timid of the cattails.


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## TANATA

Well Remmy hits the sloughs the a freight train.


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