# Who stands for freedom?



## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

When I was in college in the early 70's, the "liberals" were protesting at Berkley for "free speech", and keeping the federal government "big brother" off their back. They supported the idea of "I may hate what you say, but will defend your right to say it."
Some of those protest marchers now are Berkley professors and support "Political Correctness".....not free speech. In fact the "liberals" seem to want to make it a crime to have any opinion that offends any other group.
Meanwhile, the "conservatives" (GOP) have long touted "smaller government" and fundamental interpretation of the Constitution. They supported the idea of "The government that governs least, governs best."
Yet today, we have Homeland Security and are moving towards abolishing the Bill of Rights, with secret prisons, arrests without warrants, and no right to a trial. There is also discussion and support for a national identification card....Can we say "Show us your papers" (with appropriate Nazi accent).
In NY city, following 911, there has been a practice of stopping vehicles at random and searching them....all in the name of security.
Seems to me we have surrendered the Constitution after a terrible attack on two buildings. What a shame. Too many fathers, sons and brothers died defending that Constitution over the past 200+ years. Looks like the enemy won.
"Those who would exchange liberty for security deserve neither"---Benjamin Franklin.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Good points oldfireguy, and all the more reason to kill the bas^%$#rds where we find them, and before they can come here.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Smae old lie, and said about Vietnam:

"If we dont fight them there, theyll follow us home, rape our women & eat our children"

America Has OPEN BORDERS, there is no war on terror. We are being invaded & do nothing. In fact, the decider, pushes Amnesty. He wants the 6-7 family members of each illegal here.

Iraq is a war on LIES..

I agree with the poster on every issue but one.
"They" didnt win. We the people, lost. 
We've become too complacent & distracted. Our founding fathers gave it to us & we blew it. 
Not sure if its too late yet. We shall see.
We will be microchipping children soon, the police state is here..

My friend flew into Israel 4 months ago. They interrogated him (Ultimate Paranoid state) for 4 hours, like every young male. 
They asked him about his US phone calls..& actually played back some calls, some over 6 years old. 
Every thing you say is recorded & archived by Amdocs in Tel Aviv Israel, who bills for US phone companies. Everything, including cell phone calls.
To the naysayers, I can easily prove this. Dare me if you wish..but I dont want to create paranoia.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Not sure if its too late yet. We shall see.
> We will be microchipping children soon, the police state is here..
> 
> My friend flew into Israel 4 months ago. They interrogated him (Ultimate Paranoid state) for 4 hours, like every young male.
> ...


WHAT???????????



> but I dont want to create paranoia.


If you believe all this your to late.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Thanks for the dare...
My friend has no reason to lie, & never has to me.. His calls were played back. Every keystroke you make is monitored, emails read, calls recorded
Fox News believe it or not, covered the story and later purged it. 
Thank goodness for archives & the internet.

Heres Brit & Carl Cameron on AMDOCs & recording your calls..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=KhAEjSQgh ... re=related


----------



## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> Every thing you say is recorded & archived by Amdocs in Tel Aviv Israel


Did you even watch your own video? It says right in it that what you say is not recorded. Just the data. You really are over the top ugly.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

For FOX or Faux News, that was an amazing story as FOX is controlled.

My friend has confirmed the story. His calls were Played Back for him by Israeli IDF soldiers in interrogation for 4 hours. Recorded & Played back. If you listened Einstein, Youd know that "every call" with the exception of the White House creates a record & US Counter Intel says it could be "Used to SPY"
Fox didnt go deep enough, Am Docs listens to your calls..AmDocs is a Telecommunications Company, not just a billing company.

Every keystroke on your computer is monitored. Every call you make is tapped, recorded & archived. 
Obviously theres a watch list, I cant account for every call.. but I think safe to say that we are all being watched. 
Freedom is gone.


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

What're you getting so upset about? God knows evertying, he sees everything, so you have no privacy against him. Why're you getting so upset that the government knows what you do, say, think and see?

And another thing, freedom was gone the day we actually had a government in this country, it's just taken us thing long to fully grasp that concept.


----------



## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> *I cant account for every call.*. but I think safe to say that we are all being watched.





> *Every thing you say is recorded & archived* by Amdocs in Tel Aviv Israel, who bills for US phone companies. Everything, including cell phone calls.


My eight year old lies better than you. At least he doesn't contradict himself every other sentence. You're ridiculous.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

DId you watch the video? 
Was your hearing aid not working?

Fox reported.. "US Counter Intel officials state it Could be used to Spy"
Amdocs denies this..

Sorry, I dont believe Amdocs, Nor the Israelis, Nor you. 
AmDocs has US phone records, OUR Phone records & the ability to listen to Our calls. They are & they do. My Paletinian Christian Friend & Physical therapist, a US citizen told me point blank, "they played his calls for him."

Sorry Jack, youre the Liar & apologist for this Communism we are experiencing. And a bad one at that. 
You probably know nothing of the Patriot Act either or dismiss it. Warrantless Wiretapping among other invasions. Lets see you spin it..come on dance, Mr Bojangles.


----------



## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

Uglyman, you have got to be the most paraniod person I have yet to see. It is quite entertaining though.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

The Patriot Act & AmDocs is Not entertaining.

This photo makes me paranoid for our future..
http://www.crescentandcross.com/


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

"I've never seen a President, I don't care who he is, stand up to Israel. 
They always get what they want. The Israelis know what is going on all the time. I got to the point where I wouldn't write anything down. 
If the American people understood what a Grip these people have got on our government, they would Rise up in Arms."

Admiral Thomas Moorer of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. 
(Washington Report 12/1999, p.124 quoting from Andrew Hurley's book, "One Nation Under Israel")

Hillary Clinton: "I am an emphatic, unwavering supporter of Israel's safety & security."

Pelosi: "Our commitment to the safety and security of the state of Israel is unwavering."

Tom Lantos: "we will not stay in Iraq 1 day longer than necessary because we do come as liberators, who would like to see the slow, painful, tedious process of democratization begin among the Arab countries of the Middle East. Without that there will be No peace for Israel."

The Australian The Daily Telegraph 
120 US war veteran Suicides a week

11/15/2007 
At least 6256 US Veterans Committed Suicide in 2005 - 17 a day, with veterans overall more than twice as likely to take their own lives as the rest of the general population.

THE US military is experiencing a "Suicide Epidemic" with veterans killing themselves at the rate of 120 a week, according to an investigation by CBS.
The level among veterans was between 18.7 and 20.8 per 100,000.

Ziegler: Israel is The WORST Colonial Regime

Jean Ziegler, UN Special rapporteur on Right to food, Castigated Israeli Occupation & described it as the Only "Colonial regime" - Refuses to abide by Any International law, calls the UN to adopt an effective policy Forcing Israel to Respect Human rights & the Geneva Convention.
"Its an Illegal Occupation from the UN's point of view, & continues to Annex More Palestinian lands; its the Worst in the History of colonialism."


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I like to think the best of people, so I don't like to think we have liars among us. We don't all agree on things, because we each are a product of our education and life experiences. Some have seen things others have not, and learned things others have not. If your Christian like myself we can only pray for wisdom, for the rest I have no answers. As a matter of fact I have a lot more questions than answers about many things in life. It takes a long time to realize how little you know. 
I wish you all the best, but I don't want to hear you degrading each other. Call it a mother hen complex. 
Debate all you wish, but degrade no more.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Plainsman, 
Your last post was filled with wisdom. I too have quesitoned every thing.
Just know this...

Everything, and I mean Everything you Watch on TV. or the movies, read via newsprint-periodicals & or listen to (Talk radio) is controlled.
Its been edited, censored & in some way packaged to promote an agenda.

Everything But the Internet is Controlled, thats why its so powerful.
They call Television "Programming" for a reason.
"We now interrupt tonights regularly scheduled Program to bring you this important"...
At least they have the courtesy to tell us we are being programmed.

I highly recommend Turning off or destroying your TV. 
I havent watched in over 4 years. My mind has never been sharper or senses more acute. Read.


----------



## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

You can't tell me that the internet isn't plum full of lies, conspiracy theorys rumors, photo shop jobs(just take a peek around this site) etc. etc. etc.


----------



## HIGH BRASS (Dec 24, 2007)

Uglyman...NO OFFENSE BUT...You should probably move to some other country or something...Our great nation is way too controlling for you. Speaking as a Afghan War Veteran, I am confident that our country is the best one in the world to reside in. I have seen firsthand the way that less fortunate people live and it has made me appreciate the freedoms that we all enjoy here in America. I would recommend you go there...you may have a different outlook on life upon your return... Another option would be to check yourself into a State Hospital because your paranoia is getting out of control...take those meds! JUST MY :2cents:


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Oh yes, Afganistan. I remember. The place we did a CUT N RUN to send 300,000 troops to invade IRaq, ON LIES.
Yep, I recall. My buddy did 2 tours there & 2 in Iraq. His squad voted Kerry in 2004. Thats how much they think of this mission.

The Govt is getting ready to take away your rights to own a gun, as a vet. I posted it. Any vet with PTSD. Its coming. 
Tell me more about Freedoms then please..like they dont exist in Australia, Canada, Spain, France, England, Germany etc

I Actually have bought land in a Central American country, Beachfront.
Also some property in the British Isles. Im considering a move. Id buy more but our damn dollar is worthless vs the Euro..$1.48 exchange vs $1

USA Was the greatest. No more.
We are in a downward spiral. Collapsing currency, overstretched military, Swamp in Iraq at a trillion $, Illegal invasion, We are essentially doomed. Not if but when.

Boondocks..I never said you can trust everything on the internet, I said it isnt controlled. Aside from Wikipedia.
In addition to watching my own news happen on Youtube, I have some favorite news sites, they include the popular Whatreallyhappened, Judicial inc, BBC, etc 
Beats the infotainment crap we are regularly fed ie Brittney, Lindsey, Paris & Brad & Angolina..


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

> The Govt is getting ready to take away your rights to own a gun, as a vet. I posted it. Any vet with PTSD. Its coming.


Wrong again! The NICS Improvement Act is to remove war veterans from the prohibited list!


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

http://www.gunowners.org/a122007.htm

Read It, or are you illiterate, in Addition to being mentally challenged? 
This is HR 2640.

The Bill seeks to ban all firearms from Vets with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome..
They dont want trained fighters owning firearms WTSHF



> ARGUMENT: The Veterans Disarmament Act creates new avenues for prohibited persons to seek restoration of their gun rights.
> 
> ANSWER: What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -- huge numbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be denied the right to own a firearm.
> And then it "graciously" allows these newly disarmed Americans to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a long-shot chance to regain the gun rights this very bill takes away from them.
> ...


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

http://www.vpc.org/press/0712nics.htm

You say the bill bans veterans from having guns, the Violence Policy Center says that the bill gives them the ability to get guns back.



> Resuscitate a failed government program that spent millions of dollars annually to allow persons prohibited from buying guns to regain the ability to legally acquire firearms. The Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) would be required to establish a "relief from disability" program to allow persons now prohibited from possessing a firearm because they have "been adjudicated as a mental defective" or "committed to a mental institution" to apply to have their bar on firearms possession removed. As a result of the bill, more than 116,000 individuals would be eligible to apply. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) used to run a similar program that, in addition to those with mental disabilities, even allowed felons to apply for "relief." Annual costs for the ATF program ballooned to more than $4 million in 1991, with an average cost of $4,800 per applicant and 43 full-time employees dedicated to processing the applications. Congress shut down the ATF program in 1992 because of its high cost, inefficiency, and threat to public safety. Under the bill, states would also be required to establish such "relief" programs to restore the gun privileges of those with mental health disabilities in order to be eligible for potential grant money to upgrade records submitted to the NICS.
> 
> Set an arbitrary time limit for the VA to act on applications for "relief." If the agency fails to act within 365 days, applicants could file a lawsuit asking a court to restore their gun privileges, even if Congress fails to provide the VA with the appropriate resources to process these investigations. Some prevailing applicants would be entitled to attorneys' fees. This provision is contrary to a unanimous 2002 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that ATF's failure to act on a relief application from a felon (because of lack of appropriations) did not constitute a denial that would entitle the applicant to judicial review. The decision noted that courts are ill-equipped to make decisions on individual applications for "relief" under the standards that would apply under the "NICS Improvement Act," stating: "Whether an applicant is `likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety' presupposes an inquiry into that applicant's background--a function best performed by the Executive, which, unlike courts, is institutionally equipped for conducting a neutral, wide-ranging investigation. Similarly, the `public interest' standard calls for an inherently policy-based decision best left in the hands of an agency."
> 
> Significantly narrow the category of records of people with mental disabilities that would be submitted to the NICS by the federal government. The current permanent bar on persons with certain health disabilities would be replaced with temporary restrictions.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

VPC does NOT advocate for Gun Owners Rights!!

Fox guarding the hen house.. 
Read the Darn Bill & Disregard what a governmental agency attempts to cover up.



> What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -- huge numbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be denied the right to own a firearm.
> And then it "graciously" allows these newly disarmed Americans to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a long-shot chance to regain the gun rights this very bill takes away from them.


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

uglyman said:


> VPC does NOT advocate for Gun Owners Rights!!
> 
> Fox guarding the hen house..
> Read the Darn Bill & Disregard what a governmental agency attempts to cover up.


I would read it if you'd supply a link to the f***in' bill instead of just ranting and raving like a dilerious nutjob who wears a tinfoil hat and rings a bell on street corners.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Youre Hopeless.
I listed the Bill...HR2640

And the NRA camp is in bed with the Brady lobby now, its unreal.

"This looks like an enormously expensive, extremely intrusive, extremely stigmatizing approach to a tragic situation," Dr. Nada Stotland, vice president of the psychiatric association, the largest group representing the nation's psychiatrists, said of the McCarthy bill. "It is unconscionable to restrict people's civil rights because they have a medical illness&#8230;."

"&#8230;McCarthy told NEWSWEEK that she was pleasantly surprised to hear of the NRA's public position, noting that an executive of the Gun Owners of America had met with House Republicans this week to gin up opposition to her measure. "I have a feeling that this is their [the NRA's} way of showing they can be moderate," she said. (A McCarthy aide said that when the congresswoman's staff members met with NRA lobbyists last January about her proposed measure, the NRA officials said they would not publicly support it unless language was added that would eliminate the existing ban on interstate purchases of firearms. No such language has been added, the aide said.)

Reps. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., and John Dingell, D-Mich., view the Virginia Tech murders as the perfect time to push H.R. 297, one of the most insidiously Machiavellian anti-gun laws yet to be introduced. 
It is co-sponsored by rabid anti-2nd Amendment advocates Reps. Michael Castle, R-Del., Janice Schakowsky, D-Ill., and Christopher Shays, R-Conn. It is supported by the likes of Chuck Schumer, Ted Kennedy, Dick Durbin, John Conyers and NRA board member Larry Craig&#8230;."


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c ... c79:e34859:

_(a) Program Described- A relief from disabilities program is implemented by a State in accordance with this section if the program--

(1) permits a person who, pursuant to State law, has been adjudicated as described in subsection (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, or has been committed to a mental institution, to apply to the State for relief from the disabilities imposed by subsections (d)(4) and (g)(4) of such section by reason of the adjudication or commitment;

(2) provides that a State court, board, commission, or other lawful authority shall grant the relief, pursuant to State law and in accordance with the principles of due process, if the circumstances regarding the disabilities referred to in paragraph (1), and the person's record and reputation, are such that the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest; and

(3) permits a person whose application for the relief is denied to file a petition with the State court of appropriate jurisdiction for a de novo judicial review of the denial.

(b) Authority To Provide Relief From Certain Disabilities With Respect to Firearms- If, under a State relief from disabilities program implemented in accordance with this section, an application for relief referred to in subsection (a)(1) of this section is granted with respect to an adjudication or a commitment to a mental institution or based upon a removal of a record under section 102(c)(1)(B), the adjudication or commitment, as the case may be, is deemed not to have occurred for purposes of subsections (d)(4) and (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code._

I don't care what McCarthy said, the NRA stated that if a single gun control proposal was attached to H.R. 2640 they would withdraw their support and fight its advancement the entire way to keep it from passing.

The only reason the NRA and the Bradys worked together is because it benefitted both sides, the Bradys can say they now have better background checks, the NRA can show that gun owners get back more rights than they hate when Clinton was in office.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Reps. Carolyn McCarthy, D-N.Y., and John Dingell, D-Mich., view the Virginia Tech murders as the perfect time to push H.R. 297, one of the most insidiously Machiavellian anti-gun laws yet to be introduced.

It is co-sponsored by rabid anti-2nd Amendment advocates Reps. Michael Castle, R-Del., Janice Schakowsky, D-Ill., and Christopher Shays, R-Conn. It is supported by the likes of Chuck Schumer, Ted Kennedy, Dick Durbin, John Conyers and NRA board member Larry Craig&#8230;."

NRA is not only being bashed for this legislation. It has far too often taken a tack of appeasement, and a defensive position in legislative matters; HR 2640 is only icing on that cake. Many of us want to see NRA be as "radical" as it's accused of being. Many feel that it is a flat-out wimp; fights only defensively, and recognizes a need to keep gun rights at risk in order to keep cash rolling in.

And many of us doubt that restoration of rights will ever take place. Schumer, as mentioned before, has managed to block it for years. I don't see this legislation stopping him from it. And if rights do get restored, at what cost to the individual? What does "timely" mean? More feel-good junk to pull the wool over our (even NRA's) eyes.

That Schumer and McCarthy support it is good reason at least to question it; that VPC opposes it has the opposite effect, but neither of these is much of an argument; just a whiff of the wind direction. Maybe. We shouldn't base out opinion about the legislation merely on such factors.

NRA support of Federal gun legislation did not stop with the earlier Dodd bills. It currently backs several Senate and House bills which, through amendment, would put new teeth into the National and Federal Firearms Acts."

Lapierre nonetheless says the group is now working with longtime ally Rep. John Dingell, Democrat of Michigan, on a bill to ensure that mental-health records-such as the December 2005 court order directing Cho to receive a psychiatric evaluation-are entered into a FBI database that is used for background checks of gun buyers&#8230;.."

So Carolyn McCarthy & Chuck Schumer, et. al, are doing us this favor out of the goodness of their black hearts? Neither one of these two would ever do anything to help gun owners, period. Supposedly some people will now be able to get recourse to have their firearms rights restored with the new bill ($$$), but if Chucky hadn't blocked the funding in the original bill to begin with, they'd already have this ability


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

You sure know how to spin a story. All you've said is nothing but pure BS. I've read the exact text of H.R. 2640, I've read the exact text of H.R. 297, there's not one single sentence that supports anything at all that you've said. Not a single sentence.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

> The compromise bill creates a bifurcated system for submitting mental health records to the background check system-depending on whether the disability finding is made by the federal government or a state agency. As a result of these changes, fewer records would be eligible for inclusion in the system and many currently in the system would be removed.
> 
> In the wake of recent government and private studies revealing that the number of veterans dealing with mental illness is at an all-time high, with many receiving inadequate care.
> A recent Department of Defense task force study found that the military mental health system lacks providers and is "woefully inadequate" to deal with conditions such as post-traumatic stress disorder. Moreover, a new study reports that male U.S. veterans are not only twice as likely to commit suicide as men with no military service, but are also 58 percent more likely to kill themselves with a gun than others who commit suicide.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

http://www.gunowners.org/ne0702.htm

Hence, if a person were --

a. A vet found by a VA doctor to be suffering from post traumatic stress disorder [PTS],

b. A kid put on Ritalin under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), in part because of the increased danger of playground fights;

c. A senior with Alzheimer's receiving home health care under the Medicare program --

then, under the new interpretation being pushed by anti-gun advocates, that person would be subject to a lifetime gun ban IF the term "adjudication" included a diagnosis, as opposed to just a court order.


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

Gun Owners of America is NOT a credible source. Stop citing them already! You might as well be citing the Brady Campaign for credibility!


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Not credible? 
Interesting, as they advocate for gun owners & are Opposed to this Tyrannical gun law.



> Second, in the case of veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder, kids with attention deficit disorder, or seniors with Alzheimer's, de minimis levels of "danger" or incompetence are almost always an underlying issue (and, hence, an implicit finding). And the statement conveniently fails to mention the standard in the BATFE's May 9 letter, starting that "any" danger, no matter how de minimis, is sufficient.
> 
> Third, note the use of the word "federal." State diagnosis in connection with IDEA, Medicare or the state National Guard would be enough to make veterans, kids, and seniors prohibited persons -- even without meeting the de minimis "danger" standard in 101(c) (1) (C), which is applicable only to federal diagnosis, not state diagnosis.





> > Second, there is language in the bill which could arguably restore the rights of the most dangerous -- but not those who were simply "diagnosed" with PTS, ADD, Alzheimer's, etc. Hence, while someone who was actually intended to be covered by 922(d) & ) (g) and is dangerous and locked up might actually be able to get his rights back by proving that he had been "released and discharged" under 101(c) (1) (C) (A), someone who is just subject to a diagnosis -- and hence can't be "released or discharged" from an institution which never restrained him -- cannot benefit from this provision.
> >
> > Third, again, note the use of the word "federal." State diagnosis in connection with IDEA, Medicare, or the State National Guard would be enough to make veterans, kids and seniors prohibited person -- but these victims would not be able to restore their rights under sections 101(c) (1) (A), even if a thousand psychologists testified that they were wholly "normal."


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

Everybody here says that you're wrong. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=324830


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Then they are stupid.



> Virginia Gun Owners Coalition
> 
> Does the NRA Defend Gun Rights?
> December 28th, 2007
> ...


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

Somebody call the tinfoil hat brigade, tell them we've got one of their escapees!


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

Its Not a matter of tin foil, as youre a Communist Apologist, imo.

I posted it directly from Virginia Gun Owners Coalition site. First it was Gun Owners of America Not being credible, now its the Virginia Coalition of Gun Owners too? Confirm it yourself..

I trust them, But I dont trust the VPC, other Govt agencies or those like you, that Pimp for more gun control & defend these bills & attacks on our personal liberties.


----------



## uglyman (Dec 25, 2007)

REDbecca..
Your last link
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=324830

Confirmed my sentiments if you read the viewer comments.."Bad Legislation", "NRA a Whore", "More Draconian Gun Laws" etc.
Little to No positive feedback on this from the link. 
Its an assault on our rights, and you want others to remain as you...a mushroom, ie kept in the dark and full of SH*t..

Youre in the same camp with the Brady Campaign, Who Endorse this Bill! 
Off their website today. The moderators should Not tolerate these communists among us like you. Ive clearly exposed you for what you are.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/blog/2007/12/


----------



## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

I just wanna chime in here for half a sec, to clue some of the other folks here in.

Everybody here knows Decoy Dummy. When he talks, his facts are 100% spot on, and he can grasp the big picture better than most people I know.

Im pretty sure that no one here really knows Redbecca. Red is a freind of mine from another forum hosted at the greatest of all firearms webpages, www.theboxotruth.com

Red is passionate about gun control laws, and is one of a small handful of people I know that will atcually read these things line for line to get the jist of the law, not simply rely on someone elses summary.

Red is right. The NRA and the Bradys worked together (In the sence that the North Koreans work with the south Koreans) in order to find a suitable compromise. This new law forces law enforcement agencies to purge out dated and erroneous information from its system, doesnt allow a lack of funds from being used as an excuse for not investigating a claim of wrongly denied rights, and several other good points. It does also require that records regarding judgements (ie, legal decision from a JUDGE) be immediately turned in so that those folks who have been ruled by a judge (NOT A DOCTOR) to be a danger to themselves or the public are not allowed to purchase firearms legally.

If the NRA had simply sat there at the table screaming NO at every idea set forth as the GOA woud have, we would possibly have a very draconian law on the books. I would hope that our legislators wouldnt have signed it, but after Virginia Tech, It was gonna be hard to count on that happening.


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

> Its Not a matter of tin foil, as youre a Communist Apologist, imo.


IMO you're something that I can't say during the daytime on a public forum. The only reason I have "red" in my name is because it's part of my real name, although which part I'm not about to reveal.



> Confirmed my sentiments if you read the viewer comments.."Bad Legislation", "NRA a Whore", "More Draconian Gun Laws" etc.
> Little to No positive feedback on this from the link.


The opinions of one or two people out of hundreds. They believe in absolutism without exception, and even the slightest little compromise is an infringement. Nothing in this world is absolute, you have to compromise on every single thing if you intend to get anywhere. Otherwise you come off as a rabid fanatic who's unwilling to change and nobody will listen to you.


----------



## TRAPSBEAVER (Dec 31, 2007)

North Korea & South Korea dont "work together". 
They Hate one another & are mortal enemies..

The US has 35,000 troops guarding the Korean border ironically, but few to None on their own OPEN Border, which is being Invaded By Illegals.

The Brady Lobby & NRA "working together" is a complete & unremitting sell out. Im canceling my membership. 
I will find another Gun Lobby organization to fight for me.

The comments on the link were vitriolic, people are visibly upset at the NRA. It wasnt a few comments, it was upwards of 70% that appear angry..


----------



## Reddbecca (Dec 29, 2007)

TRAPSBEAVER said:


> The Brady Lobby & NRA "working together" is a complete & unremitting sell out. Im canceling my membership.
> I will find another Gun Lobby organization to fight for me.


Ah good riddance to you, we don't need NRA members like you who see any bill that doesn't repeal every last gun control law on the books as a sellout of our rights.

Like it or not the NRA got us back a lot of the things we originally lost, and I can't see anything that they took away from what we had before this bill was drafted. So unless you've got some hard evidence to support that the NRA sold us out behind our backs then just shut your face.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Trapsbeaver (uglyman) you don't give up easy do you?


----------

