# Hand Signals Question



## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Hey guys

I have been working the 3 year old yellow (Dacoy)for the past month or so with hand signals. I have been going to a local soccer field for the training sessions. When I got started I was using one of the sidelines to set the bumpers on. I would put the first one at 40 yds and then spaced them every 10-20 yds all the way out to 150yds. She has done great with no problems at all. I have also been letting Dacoy watch me set the bumpers out while she was "kenneled" in her mutt hutt at the starting point.

After about two weeks she got pretty good at it so I switched it up and started going digonal, sidways etc on the soccer field while still allowing her to watch me set them up. She did just fine.

So tonight I decided to keep her in the truck while I set the bumpers out. It did not go as planned. She would start out on the right line and then vear way left or right of the line.

So my question is how do I make the transition from letting her watch to making it a true "blind" retrieve???

Should I keep her in the truck and go back to the sideline and put flags by each dummy like I did in the first few sessions?

Please help.. Last session I was so proud watching her make a 150yd "back"

This session I felt like I let her down by not doing something right.

Thanks guys.

Later


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Did you train Force To Pile before you started Handling?


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

I agree that Force to pile is a must and it takes a lot of confidence building and different drills to get your dog to do cold blinds...Force to Pile,T work,wagon wheel,w,y,pattern blinds,walking b-ball,etc..etc..
I offer a DVD called SmartWork Basic Handling by Evan Graham that shows the T work and beginning drills and I am also taking pre-orders that will ship the first of the week for SmartWork Transition phase 1 by Evan Graham..It shows drills to convert over to cold blinds.


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

If you could explain what force to pile is that would be great. Thanks


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

Force to pile (ftp). It is an extension of force fetch (ff). FF starts getting the dog to hold, then having the dog reach, then having the dog pick up off the ground. Through each of these steps the instant the dog has the dummy the ear pinch is released. With some reps without pinching in there also.

FTP takes that picking up the dummy from the ground and adds some distance. With force (usually from an ecollar) applied in "back nick back" sequence.

PLEASE PLEASE do not attempt this without buying book or video. The Evan Graham stuff is excellent. The Lardy ecollar conditioning is also good.


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

I do this process before starting T work...
Force To Pile...Set a pile of bumpers out on open ground at 40 yards..Identify the pile to your dog..
Force the dog from your side "back"-nick"back" at a low to medium stimulation on e-collar..Then follow this:
Send the dog on "back" and say "back" again when he is 5 yards out "Back" nick "Back" and then let your dog finish the route..

Send again repeating the above at 10 yards out..

Continue to force on sends each time at 5 yards further until you have forced to 35 yards..

Finish by sending the dog again,saying back every 5 yards with hand in back cast position ever 5 yards without force..


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

FTP has a twofold purpose, as has been explained it's an extension of FF in that it teaches your dog to turn off training pressure by retrieving on your command as quickly as possible, but now with distance. It also lays the foundation that the fastest way to do this is by as straight a line as possible to the pile.

Once your dog has been FTP, it has been well indoctrinated to taking a straight line on your command to retrieve. As you do lining & handling drills, it reinforces this further. By the time to get to blinds, the dog should be taking a straight line when you cast every time.

During blind training, your dog learns to trust you, in that even though it didn't see the fall, if it lines down your casts it will result in a retrieve.

As always, go slow and do not go on to the next task until the current one is firmly in place.

I too highly recommend Evan's Smartwork and Smartfetch. These and 10 Minute Retriever are what I use for my training program...


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## Goosehunterdog (Jun 12, 2005)

Force To Pile also is a Great De-Popping tool!!!!


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks for the info guys I appreciate it.

The only problem I forsee is she does not respond well when I pressure her hard. During one of last years sessions I pushed her too hard and she shut down. She wouldn't retrieve she would just sit and not move. It took a long time to get her back to form.

This is my first dog so I don't feel comfident in my training skills to even think about FF a dog. Do any of you or someone you have used or know train dogs in the twin cities area?? I would rather have it done by a professional than screw my dog up for the next 6-10 years.

Thanks agan fellas


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I work with Mark Jansma at **** River Kennels (www.coonriverkennels.com) in Sac City, Iowa. I highly recommend him...


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

There are two good pros just north of MSP in Milaca. I train with one of them quite frequently. Look up these two, send your pup with one of them on the winter trip and you will have a great dog come next hunting season.

Matt Peters
topshelfretrievers.com

Rick Stawski
finelineretrievers.com


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

:withstupid:

Although I did FF myself, I sent my dog to rick at fineline retrievers for more advanced work. I'm happy with the progress and rick is good $hit.. I believe you can FF the dog yourself as long as you get the right research materials. Just dont try to run your dog through it too fast and have patience. It isn't a very quick process and a pro's aren't cheap. Evan grahams Smartfetch will bring you all the way through it, and Rick's DVD Fowl dawgs 1 has a good overview on it as well. Where are you located? I'm in Plymouth, MN until the end of this month when I'm moving back to Fargo.


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Sounds good. I will check both of those guys out. Thanks

Ps I am in Woodbury


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

FF is very easy for a first timer with the use of videos vs. books. Sometimes it is nice to see it as well as hear how to do it. Videos are a great way to see how to FF.

A good pro program to look into is the Fowl Dawgs videos by Rick Stawski. They are a great tool from the beginning trainer to the seasoned pro. You can order the first one from his web site. The second video will be out shortly.

finelineretrievers.com

Good luck

PM me if you have any questions about Rick and his program...


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## BROWNDOG (Nov 2, 2004)

I agree, the winter trip is money well spent, Rick is a great trainer and hard worker, Bodey came back a different dog after the winter trip. His video Fowl Dogs 1 is easy to follow and to the point on CC and FF.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

You should have a big ol' smile going, Browndog...


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