# America's new bread winners



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Now this little story may be fictitious, but the scenario is definitely real. It's the new Obamanation that we will deal with or like Reagan said "go under".



> The Breadwinner in the Family
> Are you ready for this one. Hang on. We are indeed a great society.
> America
> The new breadwinner in the family...
> ...


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

In my experience of 46 years itching the Welfare system, mostly in N D, that while there is occasionally a genuine example of such a " breadwinner" these are few and far between. Yes, they do exist, but such internet pass alongs only serve the purpose of muddying what I call the "causative waters" of the root of the welfare problem!
Anyone realize that close to 70%% of births in N D are covered be Medicare!?! Huh? Can't be, but it's true! And another bit of info - if a single parent has one baby, the majority do well, most going to college or trade school, and ultimately get out of the system. If the above single parent becomes pregnant AGAIN, most stay permanently of the system, and eventually their families learn this system as a way of life. And the cycle begins and doesn't end!
What is the problem is that EVERY hurdle to block contraception is thrown in front of kudos, starting at an early age. From the tiny bit of usually inaccurate and censored info they might get from school, their parents, their churches,etc. the more conservative these groups, the worse it gets. I could tell story after story, easily write a book of my observations and experiences along this line!
Suffice it to say that the largest contributors to words the welfare soupy stem are the conservatives, the right wing Christians, etc. abortion, which we all hate, or should hate, is almost always ( not always, but almost) results from unplanned pregnancy, NOY as a method of birth control, except in third world areas, etc.
The anti abortion crowd because of their anti birth control attitudes, is the LRGEST PRODUCERS og abortion! ANY OB/GYNE will tell you that, even most of the devout Catholic or Baptist ones.
Back to the original topic! Unless all the society changes it's silly conservative attitudes towards contraception, the welfare roles will continue to skyrocket. Unfortunately, what politician will touch it!? A prominent Republican 20 years ago suggested PAYING single parents to use birth control ( they had to prove it yo get payed, etc) and he was tossed out on his conservative ear. When I came to ND 36 years ago the head of the right to life in ND who was also a level headed doctor, advocated birth control to decrease the " need" for absorption. They tossed him out!!! 
So, my point is that if you truly want yo do something to the system and save us taxpayers money, DEMAND birth control access and level headed birth control stuff in schools.
But NO! Even me favorite, Mitt Romney came out saying if he were president, he stop all Sid to Family Planning, ad nauseum, simply to buy the conservative Bible Belt vote, which he had anyway. AlienTed a lot of neutral voters, too!
In a well intentioned zeal yo help people, the Dems have rested a monstrous system, unfortunately one that no politician will touch. Even Rush Limbaugh railed against contraception with that college student, and look at the Supreme Court Ruling about Hobby Lobby, eye. 
This sort of crisp only happens mainly in USA! Every modern country with as good or better medical care than ours automatically overs contraception, no questions asked, and most of their welfare numbers are going DOWN, not up!
So you can blame the system with all its flaws, and as I sIs, it's a bad system, but for heaven's sake blame the fight wing conservatives for their even larger part in it!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> In my experience of 46 years itching the Welfare system, mostly in N D, that while there is occasionally a genuine example of such a " breadwinner" these are few and far between.


That depends on where you grow up Habitat H. Where I grew up 90% of the people lived just as above. Sixth grade girls can't wait to get pregnant and get welfare just like their sophomore older sister. 


> Suffice it to say that the largest contributors to words the welfare soupy stem are the conservatives


You also said conservatives are against birth control. I don't know a single conservative that is against birth control. I do know conservatives that don't think schools should be promoting promiscuity. I have watched teen pregnancy rise, not because conservatives are against birth control, but because schools have taken sex ed and changed it into promotion.



> Unless all the society changes it's silly conservative attitudes towards contraception, the welfare roles will continue to skyrocket.


Don't pay them more than a minimum wage job for their kids and the pregnancy rate will drop fast. First our schools promote sex, then our government rewards it. Single moms don't pay for college, they get it paid for, and at the same time get food stamps, free rent, child care, health care. Out system has invited the man out of the home.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Even though I've seen the system for a few years, I have to concede that you and your right wing websites are absolutely correct! 
You are correct that not every Conservative is anti birth control. There have been a few who were positive about contraception and very progressive with their ideas! Remember them? .........oops....no one else does, either!
Even forward thinkers like Newt Gingrich had some great ideas about the system that were totally scuttled by the Bible Belt! And once the R's descended on him, he D's laughed all the way to the polling booth. 
Unfortunately believing that most conservatives favor birth control access and information is like believing that the " just say NO" policies in Africa have played a huge part in combatting HIV! Head not Obama's back room directives changed the scope of George W,s anti HIV stuff for Africa we'd be still spending billions on nonsense. Heck, the lions share of conservatives that I know are more or less anti birth control within their OWN MARRIAGE! Often till they get pregnant and do the 'Fargo Run!' Happens frequently! 
One problem as I see it is that though some Conservatives give lip service about sexual education in school, what they consider appropriate and what those in the trenches see appropriate can be very different. I don't like a lot of the stuff that the radical left advocates teaching kids in school, but darn it, after working with it for 46 years, like it or not it might be necessary, though not very palatable to you or even me! One small example.....putting a condom on a banana???? Knee jerk reaction to me was Horrible, but having worked with hundreds, maybe thousands of kids, a lot of them pregnant, it's necessary, believe me! I don't like it either, but sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Want to know how many people put on condone IMPROPERLY? Lots, especially I ally beginning users!

I could go on and. On, but you have all the knowledge, experience and the answers anyway. I assume you have way more practical first line experience than me - sure hope so, because if you don't, then IMHO you are full of feces and need a HHH enema! high, hot and a hell of a lot, oh ugh with your superior medical knowledge you already know that! Then you won't be quite so out of date and insist on living in the 50's like when you and I grew up, You know, when the worst word you ever heard on TV was " my golly" or " heck" and violence and sex was never alluded to, much less that stuff nowadays which starts programming kids at age 3, usually in front of the same TV shows enjoyed by their self styled conservative parents! Then we expect them to have your right wing morality at age 13-14 when every expert in USA says that sexual activity starts! Good grief, Plainsman! Join the 21 st century! LOL. I don't like it much sometimes, either, but open your tunnel visioned eyes. It's not 1955 any more, like it or not. Tell Margaret Sitte that, too! 
I don't expect any of my false knowledge to change your mind on anything, but it's possible there is someone out there who might think of my words next time some controversial thing comes up and they are talking to their reps! THEIR reps. You DO communicate with our elected reps don't you? Hope you don't just consider cutnpaste from inacurately websites as the sum of your political activity! I spoke with both John's AND Heidi's office yesterday. Awaiting a call back again today! 
Have to keep pulling your chain, Plainsman!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Have to keep pulling your chain, Plainsman!


 I know that, and I do the same to you. :thumb:



> with your superior medical knowledge you already know that!


Now now habitat you know as well as I that it doesn't require medical knowledge to know what is right and wrong. Have you noticed that since sex ed in the 1970's the kids are getting more and more promiscuous? Today most parents leave that up to the school. Maybe our generation goofed there. However, since the sex ed appears to be part of the problem I think they need to rethink how they teach it. I'm not advocating against it all together, but do they really need it in the early primary ed years? When do kids get to be kids today? Today they have to know about condoms, but they can't play with cap guns and rubber knives.

Also, even though we both grew up in North Dakota it's apparent we were in two different cultural worlds. My neighbors had kids for the welfare benefits. The story about the 6th grade girl jealous of her pregnant sophomore sister wasn't humorous response to you, it was absolutely a true story.



> One problem as I see it is that though some Conservatives give lip service about sexual education in school, what they consider appropriate and what those in the trenches see appropriate can be very different.


The problem isn't just sex ed when it comes to the schools. It appears that the educational system thinks they can dictate to parents these days. Unfortunately it's true in many cases, but it was set up that through the school board they were dictated to by the parents and servants to the community. Today to many federal programs make the parents subservient to the school. The tail is wagging the dog.



> I could go on and. On, but you have all the knowledge, experience and the answers anyway. I assume you have way more practical first line experience than me - sure hope so, because if you don't, then IMHO you are full of feces and need a HHH enema!


HH here is my view of our disagreement. Like Jesse Ventura you are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I am socially conservative and fiscally conservative. However, please don't put me in the money worshiping category like some of the guys on farmerbuddy.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

More promiscuous? Which is the chicken and which is the egg, Plainsman? Pun intended......
That argument is like saying that we should get rid and severely limit driver's Ed because if we teach kids about driving, they'll all want to do it and we'll have lots of accidents!! 
I wish I had a buck in my retirement plans for every well meaning parent I've met over the years who have expressed this very thing in one way or another. 
Or other well meaning myths - the mother brings in her daughter who is pretty sick, bleeds so heavily she is severely anemic, so after ruling out more serious stuff like cancers, etc. you suggest birth controls pills for 3 months, and the mother's pupils dilate, she ashens, looks horrified and says "OMIGOD, those things are dangerous and furthermore as I I learned in church, they are immoral, and if we put my little darling on these devil produced abominations, she'll want to run out and screw, screw, screw..........every gynecologist and fam doctor has bashed his/ her head against the wall many times with this type of stuff and like I mentioned, any of us could write a huge thick book on the crap and nonsense you hears when dealing with kids and parents. Yet you say parents know all and should have absolute control over their kids, etc. I agree to an extent, but sometimes the day isn't long enough to waste all your time. Heck, how many times have we just let Em get pregnant, then the horrified mom will take them to Fargo, and finally get some protection. Seen that too many times! 
Even my own kids would sometimes say something and I'd ask the HUH, where did you hear that??? In school - everybody knows that!! I won't mention what very conservative school they attended, but the public one would probably be as bad!

Plainsman, I hear the walleyes are biting real well on Alkaline, and bigger ones than before starting to appear. Old farts like you and I should be out doing our civic duty by reducing the walleye population to save those poor cute lil fathead minnows and leeches, rather than trying to change some old minds like ours. Nobody else reads this political crap on this website anyway! Not like the nastiness on plan F buddy website, where the F word is so prevalent, and I don't mean The FISH word, either! I have a feeling we are closer on our thinking that either of us care to admit anyway. 
Tomorrow maybe........


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HH.... I read this daily....so please don't just leave... :beer:

Also I agree with your statement about the parents. Another twist is how lax has parents views on sex and teenage sex become. What I am getting at it is more prevalent today for parents to let their child have their significant other stay the night in the same bedroom. What do they think is going on... :roll: I am only 36 years old and back when I was in high school you don't see this happening that much. But now i see it happening more and more and even at younger ages!!

Then throw in your argument about how parents won't put kids on birth control not only for health reasons but for the pregnancy issues as well. It shows you that parents might not doing the right things and fostering all of this.

Now the argument about teaching sex ed in schools. That is all find and dandy but why does it have to be taught to kids in the lower grades....ie 4th or what ever. In today's world we are not letting kids be kids. We are introducing them to adult topics and themes at an earlier age thinking it will help deal with it when they come across the situations. But is it really or is it opening their eyes to it so they want to explore those topics earlier?? chicken and egg....or cart before the horse???


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> In today's world we are not letting kids be kids. We are introducing them to adult topics and themes at an earlier age thinking it will help deal with it when they come across the situations.


Liberals wouldn't want little johny to learn about hunting before he is 30 years old, but they will teach them about sex at five and turn out a little pervert.

HH, there are about three small lakes around Jamestown that two of you can limit out in an hour on 14 to 19 inch fish. Now all I need to do is find time. I put new tires on the FJ Cruiser yesterday, had to go back for alignment today, and Friday for a new tire to replace the one that made them think I needed an alignment. I'll have spent half the week in a waiting room getting tires. The pear trees are dropping fruit and I need to get the juicer going. However, my wife wants to take the FJ to the Snake River Canyon for a week of scenery and photography. We should get back in time for a trip to Nashville and the Smoky Mountains. I will try get back at least a day before deer season. Then a month at home before we leave for Florida. Fishing???? I'll try.

I have to laugh at that one dipstick on farmerbuddy. He tells me to get out of my basement hiddy hole once in a while. Last time he said that I had been posting from Texas for a month, and just got back from a tour of the YO Ranch. They tried to talk me into coming back for this years hunt with Ted Nugent. My wallet couldn't come up with that kind of serious cash. Besides everything is fenced in.


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## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

If you think the rise in sexual activity amongst teenagers is because school now teach sex education.....your head is totally in the sand. Media, lack of parents in lives, mimicking other teen behavior, social media....nope, it's because the health teacher in grade 10 teaches sex Ed which centers around the central theme of abstinence but also covers safe sex practices.

Because we all know teens drive and text, smoke, do drugs and drop,out of school bc they are topics covered in school. If we just wouldn't cover those subjects in school, then the teens wouldn't even know about them. Sound logic there.

Get ready for the story about some moron teacher who covered totally inappropriate content.....an isolated incident that will now become the norm for argument sake....par for this site!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Gooseguy10 said:


> If you think the rise in sexual activity amongst teenagers is because school now teach sex education.....your head is totally in the sand. Media, lack of parents in lives, mimicking other teen behavior, social media....nope, it's because the health teacher in grade 10 teaches sex Ed which centers around the central theme of abstinence but also covers safe sex practices.
> 
> Because we all know teens drive and text, smoke, do drugs and drop,out of school bc they are topics covered in school. If we just wouldn't cover those subjects in school, then the teens wouldn't even know about them. Sound logic there.
> 
> Get ready for the story about some moron teacher who covered totally inappropriate content.....an isolated incident that will now become the norm for argument sake....par for this site!


About once a year you drop by with a bag of bs. The whole of society is going down a steep moral slope. Sex ed isn't the only reason, but it's one of them. When one teen copies another teen where did the first teen get their ideas? Sure some was from an older friend, some was from media, but some was from school. They don't just teach safe sex and birth control they hand out condoms which condones it. They teach Billy has two daddies etc. Teaching birth control at an appropriate age is one thing teaching sexuality is another. Oh, by the way teaching sexuality isn't an isolated incident it's the norm.


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## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

About once a DAY you drop by with your bag of bs......

Please tell me in your vast first hand experience of teaching health to middle and high school students how many times you have looked at the state teaching standards for health?

Also using that experience, tell me how often the typical teenager puts enough stock in anything a teacher says enough to sway their personal life to the point where they are now sexually active because they read about it a textbook or heard about sexual contact from a teacher who they have 1/2 half of a year in 7th grade and one half a year in 10th grade for one hour a day. If you want me to keep going with my yearly bs, I can tell you that the state standards for health in 7th grade don't even cover sexual intercourse and the standards in 10th grade cover in exactly one section of one chapter in the book. So yes, if that one section introduces 16 year olds to sex for the first time and you believe that school teachers have that much pull over the teenage mind.....then schools are guilty as charged for the increase in sexual activity amongst adolescents.

I have contact with dozens of different teachers from dozens of school districts, I have never heard of any school handing out condoms. I am not saying that some schools don't do that, what I am saying is that it is no where near the norm in schools. But as long ad you read it somewhere or they said it on Fox News, the exception must be the norm!

As far as sexuality (read gay rights/marriage).....show me where that is taught in schools other than acknowledging that the current social attitude across the United States is pro gay marriage/rights? You can blame the schools for this social change but I would maybe look more towards the people who actually vote to legalize these social changes.....and the last I checked there are exactly zero legislators in their early 20's and the voting block of 18-25 year olds (the ones most recently in high school) historically have the lowest voter turnout. So perhaps this social change in our society might be stemming from something else.

Again sorry to spread my bs which is based on no first hand knowledge, facts and is wrought with a political agenda.....oh wait!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I have contact with dozens of different teachers from dozens of school districts, I have never heard of any school handing out condoms.


Perhaps you just have very good ear plugs. It's clear you don't want facts changing your mind. Have you gone to a state teachers convention. I have gone with relatives. Have you noticed all the anti hunting material teachers can pick up and bring back to the classroom? It's not just the sexuality the schools are pushing they are shaping the behavior and moral character of the nations most gullible,  and our kids too.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I've never heard if any school in USA a handing out condoms either. This is common throughout the rest of,the world, though. It's not that other 1 st world countries want to encourage sexual activity, it's just that they recognize the problem and are attempting to do something about it, IMO US is 20 years behind the rest of the world in this, though I doubt we'll ever catch up in the next 20 years either. I'm liberal in my views on this topic, used to be extremely conservative, but the last 20-30 years really opened my eyes and changed my mind on a lot of,this stuff. 
And yeah, someone will come up with a silly " for instance" of a rare washy teacher saying something stupid and blow it out of context or proportion and intimate that all teachers are nutty like this! 
I remember at one of my kids hockey games being shocked when a fellow coach actually mentioned to me that " little Johnny's mom was actually LIVING with her boyfriend and they WEREN'T MARRIED!" Honestly, this was about 1980 and it was the FIRST TIME I actually run into it! Only 35 years ago and look how the world changed since then.
At that time I was so straight and socially conservative that I actually wanted to lock up all gay people, preferably, hang Em high, but in the years since I have met and become friends with a lot of gays of both sexes and all of the recent medical neurochemical stuff, tons of stuff, have proven pretty. Conclusively that that's how they were born and their sexual orientation was determined for unknown reasons long before birth! And NOT to confuse anyone who is gay to Pedophiles, etc. totally different things.....gay people are as honest and hard working as the rest of its, they bleed like the rest of us, maybe statistically make better parents than us straights, and in my experience are possibly more honorable and trustworthy than some of my straight friends.

But all the above is a separate topic. The bottom line is that I've learned over the years that the world and the social world is changing rapidly,and it makes zero sense to point fingers and attach blame to this and that. I can't change it. Some of it I like, some of it I don't!

BTW, teachers at least in ND and the few I know in other states are doing a dangled good job when it comes to all this stuff. Plains mentioned anitihunting stuff. The poor teachers are literally caught between a rock and a hard place. Hunters want them to talk up hunting,.....on the other hand is PETA and their lookalikes? IMO teachers are the most abused and underpaid people we have in our society and they have the toughest jobs. Totally thankless, criticized from every side, Add some kind of neutral sex education into the mix and I haven't any idea why any of them stay into teaching! Teachers and nurses all need gold stars!

Back to the original topic. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the entire welfare system needs a major overhaul! Starting with much tougher gatekeepers to the system, include ways to combat unemployment ( lots want jobs, but are unhip able for a variety of reasons) rehabilitation, job training, etc. newt Gingrich had some good ideas, though no one listened or learned anything from him. 
Where is my tackle? 
I'm heading for Alkaline Lake this afternoon, Plainsman, when my Fishingbuddy gets finished his dog training.


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## Gooseguy10 (Oct 10, 2006)

Facts getting in way of argument? Odd coming from a guy whose argument rests on "went to a teachers convention once with relatives......" And generalizations about what schools do to cover sex Ed that no one can seem to verify.

And to think I only cited the mn state teaching standards, personal first hand knowledge of teaching for over a decade (including 10th grade health) and the scope and sequence of health classes. Next time I will stick to facts like attending a conference and I heard once.....

Also, while you generalize about all teachers and attitudes they have about hunting...I will go and look at the hunting picture board in my classroom and prepare for year 11 of my school wide deer contest. Could it be that the people attending a state conference tend to be the biggest union supporters.....or also known as the most liberal facton of the teaching profession? But hey, don't let facts and real life get in the way of your argument....


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Facts getting in way of argument? Odd coming from a guy whose argument rests on "went to a teachers convention once with relatives......"


Ahhhh gooseguy wants a big penus contest. No, but I will give you some of my background that shapes my opinion.

My brother put up hunting information just like you do, but your both in the minority. Or he was I should say, he retired after 41 years. His wife retired after 39 years. Mom taught a couple years, my mother - in -law for many, my sister in law. A half dozen of my good friends, and my wife and I both have teaching degrees. So we know how liberal the teaching professors are, and I agree the teachers organizations are the most liberal. I'll bet you all of the sex ed teachers all go to the teachers conventions and suck it up hook line and sinker. 
One of my very good friends retired from teaching just this year. His home room was empty and the sex ed teachers room had some construction so she used his room for a few days. Until that point he didn't know how out of it sex ed was in schools. He asked her if they ever taught that adoption was an option rather than abortion. She said no, and was upset with him. 
It's odd these days at one time parents run the school, not the school run the parents.

Don't try bs me gooseguy I am fully aware of what's going on. Get out of your own classroom once in a while. Maybe go to the library and read Billy has two daddy's.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Goose guy 10, you sound exactly like my son in law, a fantastic teacher, and the teachers I regularly hunt and fish with! Great bunch of guys and gals. Oops, almost forgot to mention the bunch of teachers I've had the pleasure of teaching Hunter Ed with since 1970, 
That's the trouble with the narrow minded tunnel visioned outlook like an absolute Liberal Hating genius like Plainsmen! People like that look at absolutely everything in black or white. See or hear of ONE teacher being anti hunting or pro birth control or pro better educational standards, or thinking out of the box like kids were taught when he wad a kid or a bit weird and ALL teachers are the dratted LIBERALS! Especially if a bigot like a Rush the absolute authority of things, mentioned it on his hate fest! Find any small criticism of one case and tar Em all be the same brush! "Lousy teachers, can't teach My Kid Nuthin! " had a pt's husband tell me this one time! I thought those people are allowed to reproduce?!? 
Not that all teachers are perfect, like any other group of society, doctors, lawyers, farmers, butchers, bakers, candlestick makers, etc? Just use the term Liberalism or Socialism, and if all else fails, try Fascism, As the Rush wannabes ( usually the more poorly educated, IME) don't now the difference between any of these totally different things anyway! 
But we must respect plains's antiLiberal stuff! After all, he must know what he's talking about! He's the so called Moderator of the political garbage section here! You know, the section where EVERY topic is started be one guy, who knows nothing else but cut n paste, and has anti Liberal crap as part of his signature! Sure a thoughtful, knowledgable individual who offers ALL KINDS of positive solutions for The country's betterment! If only Obama or Bush would have listened to him! 
He calls Liberals " sheep!" He's half right! The other half are Conservatives like him! I call anyone a SHEEP who doesn't look at the good and bad stuff suggested by both sides of the aisle, thinks about it all objectively and critically, then makes up their minds! TEMPORARILY makes up their mind until the next important question comes up!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The subject has kind of morphed, but that's ok I like tangents.



> Liberal Hating genius like Plainsmen!


I'm getting real confused. GST on farmerbuddy tells people I am liberal. Shaug tells people I'm liberal. What am I besides confused????



> thinking out of the box


I hear "progressives" say that so often. It always makes me laugh because I'm not sure one can think beyond their education and experience. There is a limiting factor to the way all of us think. Sure we can take our experience and education and combine them into new thoughts, or even thoughts no one else has had, but it's still a product of our education and experience. Thinking outside of the box is sort of like giving 110%. I can't remember all of the speakers who lost me with those two comments.



> Find any small criticism


We have a local politician who I like, but when we debate family services he always tells me I have to keep in mind the good things they do. That's sort of like eating ten ounces of oatmeal in the morning and two ounces are strychnine. With that kind of thinking you shouldn't complain about the two ounces you should think about the good things in that bowl of oatmeal. I don't think all teachers are bad, I just told you many of my relatives teach. However the bad ones though the unions etc they have a larger impact than their numbers would suggest. It's sort of the tail wagging the dog. Old cliché, but it's still true.



> Not that all teachers are perfect,


Well, glad you pointed that out or I would have thought otherwise.



> Just use the term Liberalism or Socialism, and if all else fails, try Fascism, As the Rush wannabes ( usually the more poorly educated, IME) don't now the difference between any of these totally different things anyway!


Well as this ignorant conservatives pappy would say "kind of getting on yer high horse aint cha".



> You know, the section where EVERY topic is started be one guy, who knows nothing else but cut n paste,


Spurin yer horse a little hard aint cha HH? 



> I call anyone a SHEEP who doesn't look at the good and bad stuff suggested by both sides of the aisle, thinks about it all objectively and critically, then makes up their minds!


Yesireeee and I have come to the conclusion that 90% in Washington are there for power and greed and care little or nothing about this nation. 
So you want to defend Obama? Like him saying no boots on the ground. Why? Simple that would be admitting he was wrong to leave. Well, were back. Were back because of his stupidity. More people will die because of his stupidity. Just like more people will die with Obama care because of his stupidity.

Disclaimer: I cut and past all these responses. :wink:


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Defend Obama? I was defending the teachers you continually criticize! There's good ones, excellent ones and a few lousy ones, too! Didn't realize Obama was a teacher!?!? Where did that guy come from?
People dying uselessly? You talking about Vietnam/Kennedy/ LBJohnson/Nixon fiasco, or 99% of the whole Mideast/mission accomplished fiasco? Only a billion a day for Iraq! Got our money's worth there didn't we Plains? The budget is getting closer to being balanced NOT by Obama, but because we are wasting less taxpayers money on stupid wars! Even some economists on Fox are saying that! And don't forget our poor veterans either! We'll be paying billions and billions per year for their care and their families care for the next generation or two! Unless warmongers forget their obligations to them like all politicians do between wars! And now you want MORE war and chest thumping in the future!? IMO we should have learned our lesson in the 70's and stayed home and stopped trying to police the world. We tried to say the Arab Spring was our doing!Hah....More like the Arab Storm!!! Getting tougher for our Long time allies to support us, but then that's that stupid Obama's fault! 
Back to your fight with teachers. I'll say it again! Teachers are one of the most criticized profession by know it alls, the lousiest paid, and most scapegoated ( dunno if that's a word) that I have run into in my life experience. Most underpaid for what they do are nurses, most under appreciated and crapped on and underpaid would have to be police officers of every description, and.......
Did I mention that there are good and bad in EVERY profession and the boss's house crowd loves to tar Em all with the same brushI ...MAYBE I forgot......damned teachers never taught me to remember.....at least it must be teachers fault.....or if you believe certain talk show hosts, the subliminal stuff Obama sneaks up on us with.....oops.....end a sentence with a preposition?... Must be those lousy teachers again..... If not them, has to be somebody else's fault!

Probably jerked Plainsman's chain enough for today! Don't want to strangle the poor guy! Time to hit the hand loading bench in the " man cave!"


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Bruce, just did a little unscientific research. Of the last 16 political threads, you started 14 of them and briefly looking at them they were all cut n pastes!
Chuck had two, and they were both questions and thoughts that he had obviously thought up himself. Both gave me good food for thought, by the way, and IMOO they were good thoughts, good questions and stuff to think about. (IMO is OLD opinion) chuck raises some good questions and though I disagree with him sometimes, he's what I call a progressive thinker.
But if you don't mind me saying, yours tended to be the more typical nasty out of context, fecal throwing viral email kind of stuff that I keep telling my friends, both D and R to please not send! 
Yeah I know, if you don't like the political crap don't look at it, but I'm old enough to not fireback whenever I see from either R or D out of context blown up nonsense! Can't stand Wrong inaccurate Crap, no matter red or blue color! But most importantly, I'm lying on my couch laughing my head off every time I get you going! Still have tp meet U someday! Can I bring my blood pressure cuff? Love to see if your BP goes up when I pull your leg! oke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Can I bring my blood pressure cuff? Love to see if your BP goes up when I pull your leg! oke:


  Did my cut and paste get your blood pressure up? If so then they accomplished what I intended. I know some are just as I think, I know some are not that great, but they will get a reaction. Sometimes to tell the truth I'm busy doing other things and don't want to take the time to check them out. I know if I post it and it's wrong someone will go off the deep end. Then I know with no effort on my part and I can keep reloading. 

I still say somewhere there is some dumb a$$ making the decision to teach sex ed to kids who are way to young and don't need to know some things for a couple of years. Give kids time to be kids. Oh, and somewhere there are a few teachers dumb enough to think it's great. By the way why would you think I am down on teachers. The two biggest professions in my family are farming and teaching. Further, I think it's Washington and progressive thinkers who are forcing it on the teachers and the kids. Progress is great if your going in the right direction. We are not.

Edit: I have always worried about low blood pressure. It would be interesting to see if you could make me hit 100 while sitting.


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