# gun fitting



## TCO-15 (Jul 4, 2009)

I bought a new benelli supernova and have read a lot about getting guns fitted. I was just wondering what a gunsmith/gun fitter does to make a gun "fit." And approximately how much it would cost. Any help is appreciated.


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## oldfireguy (Jun 23, 2005)

My understanding of gun fit is limited....but here goes.
"Gun fit" is adjusting the stock to your body and shooting. If you are shooting trap, the "fit" may differ from the appropriate "hunting" fit.
I had my 870 fitted over thirty years ago. It suits my hunting needs. My stock was lengthened to 15 1/4" pull and given a 1/4" "cast-off" (angle to the right). Additional adjustments to "drop" at comb and drop at heel may be needed for your own "fit".
The objective and result for me was a gun that (when mounted consistently) points to where I am looking. I focus on the bird (and/or the space in front of the bird) and ignore the gun rib and sight.
It has worked well for me.
I bought the 870 magnum used when I was 18 years old.....and it is still my primary shotgun at age 57.
Find a good fitter, one that will watch you shoot and produce the right stock for you. 
Good luck.


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## rollin Oswald (Sep 1, 2007)

TCO-15,

Oldfield provided a good answer to your question.

There is a correct/preferred shooting form (gun mount, body posture, stance) for each shooting discipline (trap, skeet, waterfowl, etc.). A stock fitter changes any necessary stock dimensions (pitch, cast, drops at the comb and heel, length of pull) so a particular shooters of a given size and shape can use the form that is the best for the customer's shooting discipline.

A good form promotes consistent gun mounts (very important) and the head remaining in the same place relative to the rib, during swings. When the head (and eye) moves during a swing, the gun's pattern also moves, often far enough to cause a missed shot.

A realistic cost for a stock fitting session is difficult to estimate. Stock fitters, because of their knowledge and expertise charge differently and also invest different amounts of time during a fitting. A very wide ballpark estimate might be $250.00.


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## wburns (Feb 27, 2009)

The Benelli SuperNova design pretty much limits what can be done when it comes to gun fitting. Fitting a gun is primarily done on wood stocked guns due to they can be bent in various directions for cast and drop and cut for pitch. Newer guns such as the various Benelli autos do have shims that can be put between the stock and action to change the cast etc. However with the Nova with its one piece design this is impossible. As far as being able to bend the stock I think it likely can't be done. I may be mistaken, but heat and platic do not mix well. In addition the reinforcement in the stock and action may not bend well. Also how the pad attaches limits what can be done with pitch, etc. I have a Nova and about all I could do is add a pad that was thicker to lengthen my pull. You can use a neoprene pad with foam shims to give you more height at the comb if you need it.


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## darkgael (Feb 10, 2006)

Great replies. Absolutely.
An additional idea - there are two related ideas - one is getting the shotgun itself adjusted - likely very limited choices with the Benelli. The second is getting YOU fitted so that you will know what you need to do or have done for any shotgun.
It isn't inexpensive. I had myself fitted at Orvis Sandanona facility during an Upland clinic (a present to myself upon retirement). They were very thorough - try gun and all. Glad that I did since I have been able to tweak each of my shotguns at least a bit with that knowledge. Mostly I am able to change LOP - as noted in an earlier post. I, also, am at 15 1/4" so all my guns need a pad.
Pete


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## bandmiller2 (Oct 4, 2009)

Pumps and autos are easier than sxs and over unders.My method,and their are outhers is to first check the shotgun.I benchrest it with a big piece of cardboard and an aim point,making sure the gun hits where its aimed,some doubles will hit different with each barrel.If it hits where its aimed wear your shooting clothes close your eyes snap the gun up with your eyes closed then open them if the sight picture is perfect your in tall clover,do it many times and sort of average it.If the butt catches on your clothes too long,if you are consistently off with your sight picture the stock needs adjusting you can figure it out.If you see too much reciever too much drop and conversly.Off right and left cast is wrong.Their are ways to bend the stock slightly depending how handy you are.Frank C.


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## SaberX01 (Sep 25, 2009)

If your stock is a hollow composite, you may not be able to do much with the comb, however, you can buy a mechnical recoil system (Grayco for example) that can adjust most everthing else; Cast, Length of Pull etc.

I had my Beretta custom fit, all bit it, with Exhibition Select Grade Turkish Walnut (that was the expensive part), the fitting itself was not an expensive endevour. When they were doing the fitting, he used a workup stock and fiberglass. Then we went to the pattering board, 25 yrds and a Modified choke. I probably shot three boxes of shells at the thing while he was shaving this, and shaving that, then when the mold was right for me, he measured the stock, then they cut my wood to match. It made a world of difference for me, and well worth it, even if your not buying a new stock, just modifying your existing stock.

I'd recommend going to a Sporitng Clays Level-II or III instructor, and have a chat with them. I say spoting clays v.s. skeet or trap, as sporting clays shooting covers most of the types of shotgunning that most people do (except for maybe slug barrel activities), where as the setup for trap and skeet can be specific to those target presentation. A trap shooting gun would not make a very good all around gun, but a Sporting Clays setup, could be used for trap. Skeets guns are often used in sporting, but there are small differences. Then find a good gunsmith to do the fitting.

Mine was done by Mike Lupold and Jon Raymond of S&S Plus, Poulson MT. Jon did the fitting / pattern work up, and Mike did the stock work. These guys are very good craftsman. They also work stocks for Kolar, which is at the same quality & price levels as Krieghoff's, if not a bit higher.


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## rollin Oswald (Sep 1, 2007)

SaberX01,

You had the good fortune to visit the best sporting clays stock fitter/instructor combination in the country, S&S Plus - http://www.ssplusstocks.com. Your description of a fitting session is how all fitting or stock making sessions should be conducted.

Others reading this: you would do well remembering the steps S&S Plus took to make sure Saber's gun fitted him before making his stock.

The same is true for a fitting session. It may or may not involve a try-gun but should involve shooting to make sure the stock-dimensional changes are correct. It is always best when they are checked by shooting the gun at targets and not just a pattern board (but that isn't always possible).

From reading the posts above, it can be seen that there are two ways of dealing with a gun that does not fit. One is to change (contort) the way you shoot. The other (and better) way of dealing with a poor gun fit is to have the stock dimensions changed rather than changing elements of your shooting form (gun mount, stance, body posture).

The recommended shooting form is deemed _correct_ because it results in the greatest shooting success. There are reasons each element of shooting form are taught. They may not be the way you shoot but if you don't, you are probably not shooting up to your full potential.

Re. stock length and gun mount: Although the butt catching on clothing as the gun is mounted may indicate the stock is too long for the shooter, it can also indicate a poor mount.

As we know, a gun mount from the low position (hunting and some forms of sporting clays) involves placing the muzzle on the target during the mount. The problem with the butt hanging up on clothing during the mount can be avoided by taking a couple of milliseconds longer to mount. Just push the gun away from the body a bit farther before pulling it back to the shoulder when the butt is at the right height. (Raising the muzzle and putting it on the target rather than allowing it to droop and lag behind the the level of the butt, also helps.)

Ideally, the stock should be brought back to the shoulder with the comb sliding along or just under the cheekbone. The head (again, ideally) should need to be tilted forward very little, if at all to place the cheek on the comb. This is good because it helps create consistent gun mounts. This, in turn, yields consistent pattern points of impact (POI).

So, what does it matter if the POI changes from one shot to the next? Isn't that why we launch a handful of shot rather than a bullet at flying birds? Sure it is. But keep in mind that each time we point the gun at a target (feathered or clay) we often do not point it exactly right. We do not always hit each thing we shoot at with the center of the pattern.

This is because the sight picture (relationship of the eye, muzzle and target) is not always perfect. Add to that imperfection another imperfection involving the position of the eye relative to the rib caused by inconsistent gun mounts and missed shots result.

The importance of where the eye ends up relative to the rib following the gun mount cannot be overemphasized. It takes very little inconsistency of the position of the eye to cause a target to be hit with the less effective outer fringe of the pattern or missed completely.

Practicing gun mounts at home with an empty gun can bear big rewards in gun mount consistency. It is most effective when wearing the clothing worn when actually shooting targets. Ten minutes of practice several days a week will reap great rewards. Sure, it's boring but so is missing what we're shooting at.

Gun-mount practice is good for smaller (weaker) shooters for another reason: It increases the strength of muscles used when shooting clay targets. It helps delay fatigue that affects hand/eye coordination and swing smoothness, which reduces shooting success.


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## SaberX01 (Sep 25, 2009)

rollin Oswald said:


> SaberX01,
> 
> You had the good fortune to visit the best sporting clays stock fitter/instructor combination in the country, S&S Plus - http://www.ssplusstocks.com. Your description of a fitting session is how all fitting or stock making sessions should be conducted.
> 
> Others reading this: you would do well remembering the steps S&S Plus took to make sure Saber's gun fitted him before making his stock.


 Without question, it was a very rewarding experience. Jon explained every step and why it was being done, even gave me allot of pointers to improve my stance / mount points / swing etc (I didn't pay them for lessons, just the fitting and wood, but he wanted it to work as best it could for me). I can't say enough about those guys. I'll post some pictures of the finished product tomorrow.

Another fella folks may be interested in, if any of you are looking for Sporting / Skeet / Trap or General shotgun instruction, is Dan Mitchell. Dan in currently running Mitchell's Clay Target Sports, Gervis OR. (Just outside of Salem,OR.) and he's the current Zone 7 Sporting Clays Coordinator. Dan is an outstanding instructor, and has many accomplishments which include being in the US Armed Forces Hall of Fame as well as the Zone 7 Skeet Hall of Fame. He's a very busy fella, but always has time to help others, from novice to expert. If your ever in Oregon shooting, stop in and say hello to Dan & Patsy, there really good people.

You see and hear it all the time; instructional & live footage DVD's or your buddy out in the field / at the range says: "I don't know why I missed, I need to check my gun as I think It's off, I must have bumped the scope, or the shells are not consistent ect etc etc etc". Proper gun fit and shooting technique are the key's to success. Watch a few rescent shooting DVD's, some shooters are really good, others, when they miss, watch what happened. Often times you can see they didn't mount the gun right or it doesn't fit them well, they had to compensate for their stance or hold which caused a compromise on the shot which = A Big Fat Miss. On a couple of the Varmint DVD's I have, I was shocked at how far some of these guys missed. I said to myself "that can't be, how could he miss that badly and be on a video". Nerves, excitement, conditions all play into it I'm sure.

There are allot of great shooters across the many shooting disciplines. One one in particular that I like to watch is Les Johnson of Predator Quest. I have no affiliation with this person whatsoever, just like the way he does things. Watch his routine for getting into a varmint set, where the guns are placed and how he sets up exactly the same way at each set, his pre-shot preparation, then the actual shot. It's amazing how consistent the guy is shot after shot after shot. That pays big dividends when things ( the Dogs ) don't do what you think or planned on them doing. I'm sure he's had his share of missed opportunities, we just don't get to see those blupers, and figure our why it happened . The same can be said of any shooting discipline, the great shooters have rock solid pre-shot routines, proper shooting technique coupled with a gun that fits them well.

I've seen guys really angry after big competitions go off & sell there "Very Expensive Guns" (Call your local Holland & Holland dealer for mortage optons on their latest $160K O/U's  ) because they just didn't shoot well with it. I've also been in duck blinds where guns fly into the river after missed shots, didn't you know guns could fly  Was it the gun, the fit, the shooter or a combination of all of them, I suspect a little bit of each.

Spend a few bucks on a good Gun Fit and Shooting Instruction, it's money well spent.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

If you're serious shooters (and have time and money to spend) then I'd go with the answers above. Heck, I'd LOVE to get a nice over/under custom fit for my shooting style. 
It probably would make a world of difference...Lord knows I need it!
But, if you just bought a Nova, I might have a simple solution that has worked for me.
Here was my experience:
When I first got my 870 super mag back in the day, I noticed the stock was much too long for me. It felt very unbalanced and was totally front-heavy. Also, I really had to force my head to stay off the comb because if I rested my cheekbone on the comb, I couldn't see the rib. Now I know, I know, you're not supposed to aim a shotgu so you shouldn't HAVE to see the rib. But what I noticed is that I consistently shot low on targets because my point of aim was off. 
My first modification was replacing the stock with a youth stock. The good thing about 870s is the parts are fairly interchangable. This helped immensely for shouldering my gun. (I did end up putting an extender pad on it later in life as my arms grew longer)
Also, to fix the comb (which I really didn't learn about until a couple years ago) I purchased a kit from the local sporting goods store. I can't recall the name, but the kit came with various oval pieces of foam of varrying thicknesses and a neoprene sleve. The idea is, you place the appropriate thickness of foam on the comb of your shotgun and slip the neoprene sleve over it to hold in place. Upon doing this, I instantly improved my point of aim as my eyes now were high enough to see the top of my gun. Since doing this, my shooting has improved IMMENSELY!
Just an idea. For a synthetic stock, which I have, it has worked wonders!


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