# .308 calibre vs, others



## Roadapple Red

I have noticed that relatively few of the members appear to use the .308. My understanding is that the .308 was developed to replace the .30-06 to allow soldiers to carry more ammo while using a cartridge that had as good or better ballistics. I also understand that the .308 is used by military sniper teams as the preferred round. So why does it seem that people use this caibre less than the others? I have .30-06 (Sauer), .308 (BLR), .270 (Rem Mod. 6), .250(Ruger Inter'l), and 22-250 (Win. Mod 70). The one I like the most is the .250 (Savage 250-3000)
Any views on my observation?


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## fmsniper

I use 308 and other calibers, not sure why I guess people stick to what works, but normally I use 35 whelen or 308....


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## NDTerminator

I'm an LE sniper. Rather than get into a long winded technical explanation as to why the 308/7.62 is the gold standard that both LE and military snipers use most often, I'll simply advise that's it's a great round for the mission.

With the 168 grain match load, it is superbly accurate, easy to shoot, has a stable, predictable trajectory, bucks the wind well, and has plenty of thump for it's intended target. It may not be the best for all LE/military applications, but it's a helluva good average.

I think that when guys compare the 308 to the 270, 30-06, the various magnums, ect, they find that it gives up some performance. It's not as fast, versatile, or sexy as many popular rounds, but it's still a superb round for medium game.

For the record, I own a 308. Mine is a Remington 700LH VLS, capable of 1/2 MOA accuracy to 400+ yards. That being said, my go-to medium game rifle is a Remington 700LH SS in 270. It too is capable of sub MOA accuracy to 400+ yards, and I've taken a pile of big game with it...


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## Starky

There is definately nothing wrong with the .308. A few of my hunting buddies shoot them and shoot them well. There are probably other reasons, but I think the military uses it because the .308 is the round used in the mediemum machine guns and the ammo is more available. That may not have anything to do with it, but it sounds good to me.
I'm not sure if snipers get to choose the round they use, but the Secret Service snipers I have worked with shoot the 7mm mag.


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## huntin1

I drive a 308, for pretty much everything.

:beer:

huntin1


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## Invector

I use to have a .308. I did not like the gun not the cal. I was over and over and over and over again talked down to by an uncle who did not like the .308 since he thought it was slow, had bad trajectory, and was worthless. The gun I had was a bit on the old side and had many problems that I did not like...mostly it jammed every few shots. See my uncle shoots a .270 and has for sometime now and has been told about how fast, stable, and flat shooting it is. Well I beg to differ on those points. When I had my .308 it was very good at target shooting but was a poor hunting gun. The things I liked about it were the ability to reach far ranges with still plenty of power. Along with that there are many types of rounds that can be used. As I have posted in the past I lived for a while in Colorado and down there .308s were used for almost anything you could find. The .308 was one of the more common guns carried along with the 7mm. I have done a lot of looking at rounds, types, ammo, ballistics and such in searching for a gun to replace the .308 I had. A .270 falls just a bit short of what a .308 can do and the .308 can do anything the .30-06 can do if not better. Mostly I liked it since it had less recoil then the big gun I own. If I would have had the money or if the gun would have been different I think I would have kept it. As far as snipers go, usually in the military there is a trend to find a round that has kill ability but does not punish the shoulder of the person who is shooting it. Thus the .308 was a good round having long range abilities, large bullet sizes, and it is easier on a person then any of the .300's or bigger.


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## Gohon

While I do agree with you on the virtues of the 308, we part company when you say the 308 can do anything the 30-06 can if not better. Up to 165 grains they are pretty much the same as far as ballistics go but from that point on the 30-06 takes the lead, especially if 180, 200, or 220 grain bullets are called for.


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## Invector

Gohon said:


> 200, or 220 grain bullets are called for.


Do they even make that size for a .308? I have seen 180's but thats the biggest. A 220 grain I found for the 30-06, but it has very poor speed and impact (Federal spee hot core). Granted reloading you could put about almost anything into a .308 and a .30-06.


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## Gohon

> Do they even make that size for a .308


Yes and no........... Anything above a 180 grain bullet is not recommended for the 308 and that is why saying the 308 will outperform a 30-06 is inaccurate. Actually you could seat a 200 or 220 grain bullet in a 308 case but it would be so far down in the case as to limit powder so a huge loss of power and performance would occur. If you start to limit the size, and design of bullets in specific caliber's then the old 30-30 could almost be claimed to be on par with the 308 in certain actions. Speed alone is a very poor measurement of a bullet or caliber's performance. Tell a Alaskan guide you have a choice between a 308 with a 165 grain bullet and a 30-06 with a 220 grain bullet to hunt bear with and see which one he tells you to bring.


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## DrHenley

There's nothing wrong with the 308. It is a fairly mild recoiling, versatile, and inherently accurate round. Even though I'm a 30-06 fan, I came to the conclusion that in an autoloader or lever gun, a 308 makes more sense.

It will not do everything a 30-06 will, but it will do most of them as well or better with less recoil.

What it *WON'T* do is send a 165 grain bullet downrange at 2950 fps.


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## Jiffy

> What it WON'T do is send a 165 grain bullet downrange at 2950 fps.


So does that make it "inherently" better??? Tell you what, I'll take my .308 and you take your .06 and I bet we both get the job done.

As for which is better......beauty is only skin deep. It's just unfortunate that your round is so ugly.  :wink:


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## HERSHEY_VOLS_22

What i think is the answer to ur question is that most people grew up around 30-06s and more commmon calibers. So,they must think that if their relatives don't use it; they shouldn't either.


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## Greenhunter

I love my Remington in .308Win. It will kill deer, wild boar, and black bears and even Elk as long as you do your part and place the bullet where it is supposed to go.

You will not be undergunned with a .308 cal rifle. I would bet that you could even take grizzly/brown bears with it too. Afterall archers and muzzleloaders to it every year and they don't have the wallop of the .308.

Shot placement is key in killing wild animals.

Shoot whatever you feel good with, then become expert with it.


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## Dustymick64

I have used quite a few different guns and calibers over the years from a .243 to a .338..(Bigger the better way back then)Then one day, quite a number of years ago when I was quite young, I saw an old man cleanly drop a nice elk with an old 30-30 in the timber. I was stunned! I had laughed at the old coot for using such gun. Was my face red.  Another old fella used a .25-35 his whole life an took many a deer with it. A friends father used a .308 most of his life and took many deer, bear and elk with it. My point being any modern gun/calibers will do the job. It's the shooter that makes the difference. As I only hunt deer in the brush now, my only gun is a Marlin 30-30.. Works just fine for me.


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## Rogelk

Hello all...I'm new to the forum...looks like a good group here.

2 yrs ago I sold my Rem 700 Mountain Rifle in .280..it was foolish of me to sell it. Flat shooting and dead on accurate year after year.

Today I bought a new 700 CDL in 30.06.. same rifle as the mountain model only a heavier barrel and 2" longer. I suspect it will perform as good as the .280 and a better selection of factory ammo. I can't wait to sight it in!!

My vote is for a .280 if you roll your own and a 30.06 if you don't. I'd love to have .243 and a .308 but if you can only have one rifle, I believe a 30.06 is the one to have. And again, Howdy from the north 'burbs of Mpls. :beer:


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## deathwind

The .308 was the rifle Milo Hansen used to take the world record typical whitetail so thats all i have to say about that there.


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## DrHenley

Jiffy said:


> So does that make it "inherently" better??? Tell you what, I'll take my .308 and you take your .06 and I bet we both get the job done.


Jiffy, go back and *READ* my whole post!

I said that the 308 will do most things *"as well or better with less recoil"* than the 30-06. That sentence you lifted out of context was simply naming *ONE EXCEPTION*.


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## keepemflyinproductions

If you really want to know which gun people prefer between the 06 and the 308 go to your nearest gun shop and see how many used 06 compered to 308. There are tons more 06 because every one holds on to the 308 because they lke them.


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## Gohon

The 30-06 is 100 years old this year. The 308 is 54 years old. The Mossberg ATR was introduced in 30-06 and 270 only on the first runs. Very good reason for that.............. it's called popularity. Better re-do your math.


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## Jiffy

Yo whats up Doc!! I did read your whole post. I could care less how fast an 06 will send a 165 grain bullet. It doesn't matter. You don't need 2950 fps from a 165 grain bullet to kill a deer!! Or a person for that matter. You may agree, however, your post made it sound like that was pertinent information. IMO.

Your round is still ugly....  :wink: :beer:


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## Horsager

308 = 30-06 SHORT?? SHORT MAG??

For the most part 308 = 30-06 -200fps

308 = capable fodder for almost all North American big game with the added advantage of DIRT CHEAP surplus ammo for lots of affordable practice without reloading. I don't own one yet (shot lots of them) but it is inevitable, and I'm sure I'll like it.


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## huntin1

Yup, you will like it! Especially if you get a Savage. 8)

Ain't that right Jiffy. :wink: :wink: :wink:

huntin1


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## Jiffy

Thats what I've heard.  :beer:


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## Gohon

I don't know why anyone would want to argue the difference between the 308 and the 30-06. Ballistics' they are both the same up 180 grain with the 06 having a slight edge with 200 and 220 grain bullets. Having owned and shot both, I never found any real favor over either one. True the surplus ammo for the 06 has pretty much dried up but since I don't shoot surplus ammo that was never a concern of mine. My only regret is having owned then sold a Savage 99 in 308. But then again, hind sight never was very helpful. Here is the words of another person on the two round that pretty much sums it up.............. you can read the entire article here. http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/F ... or3006.asp

"When people compare the .30-06 against the .308, they usually don't do so in a scientific manner. A proper comparison should account for "time" -- then and now. With the powders of the day, when the .30-06 came into being, the way to achieve higher velocities and to shoot farther was to use a large case filled with powder. Over some years, powders improved (and of course, speaking of powders, you are aware that "IMR" stands for "Improved Military Rifle") and large cases were no longer absolutely necessary to meet the performance requirements of the military. Enter, the .308 -- with it's smaller and lighter package, it could do virtually the same job as it's big brother without weighing as much. And popularity? Well, whether it's based in a survivalist mindset or not, civilians tend to rave over whatever ammo and weapons the military are using. So, it was natural (and expected) that civilian shooters would welcome the .308 as "the" round of choice for .30-caliber shooting.

Given today's powders, the .30-06 has definite advantages in distance and energy over the .308 for any given weight of bullet. However, these advantages are only realized "in the extreme," and for most hunters' and target shooters' applications, there's very little difference in performance. Considering that many shooters handload their own ammo, it is no wonder that the smaller case is more in demand. When surplus GI brass can be acquired so inexpensively, why spend more money for .30-06 cases? Where economics are concerned, the .308 wins -- hands down.

I mentioned extremes, so let's talk about them a little. I've always believed that the .30-06 is probably the most versatile cartridge on the planet. Using extremely light bullets, it makes for a lethal varmint round. Using heavier bullets, some of the biggest game on Earth have fallen to the .30-06 on several continents around the world.

Handloaders, using some of the modern, lower-pressure/higher-velocity powders (such as those in Vihtavuori Oy's 500-series) can truly wring out the maximum performance of the bigger cartridge. In such a case, the .308 will always take a back seat. However, let me be clear about this -- I am, again, talking in terms of extremes. Most responsible hunters take game at "reasonable" distances, and the farthest that most target shooters compete at -- in NRA-sanctioned meets, for example -- is 1,000 yards, a distance that has been easily handled by the .308 cartridge for many years now".


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## 11394

Never shot a 308 myself, have always owned a 30-06. I have taken shots up to about 250 yards accurately with a scope. My brother ( ex- military) shoots a 308 open sights accurately out to 350 yards. 6 Years between us and varing eye sight.


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## T.R.

I've been hunting big game with this .308 rifle for over 30 years. These successful hunts include caribou, moose, elk, antelope, mulies, whitetails, coastal blacktails, a California black bear, and wild boar. Shoot a good soft tip into the chest and the animals quickly topples over.

Hornady 165 grain interlock spire point will shoot into a 2 inch group at 150 yards every time. But best groups come from 150 grain Winchester Fail Safe factory ammo. 150 yard groups look like one ragged hole. This bullet pentrates better than "plain" 180 grain soft tips and shoots a little flatter, too.

I'm not convinced a hunter needs a 220 grain bullet. Premium 180's will penetrate just as well, perhaps even better.

.308 is my favorite big game cartridge but there are many good ones that will get the job done right. My Dad had great success with his 300 Savage.

Good hunting to you.
TR


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## bwnelson

Nice Savage!

"Beware the man with one gun", right?


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