# tournies



## 1shotWonder (Oct 10, 2005)

anybody have any information on coyote tourny in cooperstown this weekend?


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## bontop2 (Feb 21, 2006)

Yes. there is a coyote hunt in cooperstown on saturday starts at dawn and check in i think is 5 pm you can buy tickets when you check in.


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

There isn't a morning check in? Have they learned to temp check or block yet?


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## bontop2 (Feb 21, 2006)

No morning check in or block and temps. I wish they would I was in Dickenson and loved it!! I am from cooperstown and have leaned that way but get nowhere with it.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

I think if people are going to host and call it a "predator tournament" it needs to be run correctly and strictly to keep from giving hunting a bad name in the minds of nonhunters. This whole thing of just buying a ticket and turning in roadkill or run down predators doesn't appeal to me.


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## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

I second that!!


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

that was kind of the point but at the same time i don't want to be putting down another tournament i just think that the contestants need to keep bringing it up until they change


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## 1shot1yote (Dec 23, 2006)

What does that mean to temp check or block?

Justin


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

temp check is too check the temperture of the coyotes turned in to make sure they were shot that day.

Blocking is putting blocks in the mouth behind the canines at the time of kill with the time written on them in sequential order to stop from the pooling of coyotes


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Brad T. all the ( blocks, temp checks, lie detectors,etc.) started when they brought money into the game. I believe the first two big hunts to do that was the World and National hunts.

Money breeds cheating in my opinion, everybody is looking for the edge.
Plane and simple, those hunts don't tell you who the best predator hunters are, it tells you who had the best place to hunt that day.

Someone may say how do I know? Trust me I do. :beer:


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Danny i agree for the most part more money means a bigger incentive to cheat however i believe people would still cheat to be a National Champion without any money involved if you didn't have the block and temp checks.

And yes i know how you know about bringing money in danny but the big California hunts aren't going on any more or at least not near the extent they were and you no why? Because it's nice if a guy drives 17 hours like i do for nationals to get a little gas money to go to the next one if he does well.


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## bontop2 (Feb 21, 2006)

I am with you guys on that but cooper doesn't pay enough to make it worth cheating just a fun hunt to do hope to see a good turnout despite how cold it's supposed to be.


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## Danny B (Jun 6, 2006)

Brad T. I understand people well cheat at anything, that's why you need all kinds of rules covering such hunts. The rules committee has to cover all the bases that's for sure.

To explane those old hunts a little better here is a rundown. The hunts we ( CVCA ) had were different chapters having there own team trophy hunts, 8 a year. Then at the end of the year a big state hunt where all the teams and chapters hunted against each other. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd place teams got trophies at a big dinner dance at the end of the year. Those were BIG bragging rights back then. The also hunted against the Arizona club" AVCA "at the Colorado river every year. Yeah, it's all gone now, but the memories arn't lol.

The CVCA sponsered hunts for 50 years and I competed on them for 25 years, only once did we have a team cheat that I ever heard of and they would not take a lie dectector test. Never did we hunt for money. Some of the chapters of the old CVCA/CSVCA are still around having club hunts, they just keep it under there hats.

I don't understand why they don't just hunt for belt buckles, having one that says STATE CHAMPION looks pretty darn good. :wink:

Long drives, yeah I know about them. Look on a map...LA to the Nevada/Idaho border on a weekend club hunt just to win a trophy lol.


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## 1lessdog (Feb 4, 2004)

The cheating is still going on even with temp and blocks. Hunters still pool there animals. I have seen it done in some of the hunts out West. What they do 2 or 3 teams get together or they meet there friends somewhere. And they have there Animals marked as to when they shot them. Then they write on the blocks and put them in there mouths.

I have said along time ago. The only way to stop the cheating is to send a judge with every team. The teams that dont want them have something to hide. Or split the team up. They still hunt for there team but you cant cheat when you have someone else with you. If it going to be a true calling hunt. That should mean no one drives off the road. I know for a fact that some hunters in the Classic this yr were driving out in the fields. And they did shoot animals. I know there are always people that are going to defend there hunts saying that didnt happen. If you say it you are in denial then. It happens in every hunt. Take the money away and there still going to do it. You cant win if you have cheaters.


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## 1lessdog (Feb 4, 2004)

bontop2 said:


> I am with you guys on that but cooper doesn't pay enough to make it worth cheating just a fun hunt to do hope to see a good turnout despite how cold it's supposed to be.


Ya right, about 10 or 12 yrs ago when it was a single person hunt. I came in with 8 Fox and there was a Extended cab Chevy came in with 3 guys and the driver shot all 9 of the animals. What is the chances of that. I picked up my animals and left. I havnt been back sense.

I have seen hunters cheating right in the staging area for check in. There is not a hunt that will stop cheating. Unless they send judges with all the teams.


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## bontop2 (Feb 21, 2006)

All this talk about cheating has got me bored out of my mind!!! Just go hunt and if u like to talk to other hunters go to tournaments if not don't go.


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## kase (Jan 23, 2005)

i guess i don't really understand how writing the time that the yote was shot on a block of wood does anything. people can still pool dogs...they would just have to space the times out to make it believable as to when they shot them.

kase


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## 1lessdog (Feb 4, 2004)

kase,

You said it right, You just have to write down the time it was harvested.


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

O.K guys obviously there is no full proof plan that would be feasible to stop all cheating there is still a lot to say for the honor code. Blocking stops cheating by this.

Since the blocks are numbered in sequential order it stops a team from splitting up in two vehichles and one guy taking half of the blocks and the other taking the other half. For example

One guy shoots his first coyote at 8 and has blocks 1-4 he puts #1 in and contiues hunting the other guys shoots his first coyote at 8:15 and puts #5 in it and continues now using this with the temps the first coyote and coyote number five are the same temp HMMM that's strange

It stops the pooling of coyotes because you need to get the block into the mouth within a short time of the coyote expiring if you don't the mouth needs to be pryed open to get it in and this is very obvious if it is done. If there is three teams out hunting and only one is entered in the contest for pooling the other two teams would have to drive to meet the entered team everytime a coyote is shot because if they just meet with the coyotes at a certain time to head for town they will need to pry the mouths on the coyotes shot by the team without the blocks.

This does not mean that it stops all breaking of the rules but for the most part if the hunt is ran with strict rules the guys that cheat just won't enter because of all the rules and chances of being called out infront of everyone.

Danny i like the Belt Buckles thing but there just isn't enough of these guys hunting the contest that would wear them so they wouldn't apreciate them :roll: Just trophies would be fine for the contests that i hunt in it wouldn't bother me a bit but i just don't think that there would be a very good showing :eyeroll:


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

Brad,

Here is a comment that might help these guys understand blocking better.

If you pool your blocks up and then put them in lets say two hours AFTER killing the animal, then when the tournament director cuts the band on the block the mouth could spring open due to rigor mortis. If you put the band in right away the mouth will form over the wood block. Isn't that right? Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## badlander (Dec 15, 2006)

Im going to jump in here about these hunts. There has never been so much talk about Predator hunts in town as there was acouple of weeks ago. That was the weekend that there was the big one in Dickinson and the other in Baker MT. There were teams from both Hunts hunting N.W. of Bowman and S.W. of Rhame. There were alot of ****** off Ranchers. No one asked permission and hunters ( and I use the term loosely) were driving out in the fields. You people hosting these hunts should do your own policeing of the hunters. I wish they would have pressed charges on them.( You guys know who you are). Money is the root of all evil. And people will do anything to win including cheating. I do know there are Ranchers waiting for the hunts next yr. Things are going to be alot differant. I know we won't let anyone on during Predator hunts any more.

As for the pooling or stacking of Coyotes there were 2 pickups seen N.W. of Amidon on that Friday doing some hankie pankie. I like the idea of a judge with all the hunters. If they do anything wrong they are given the boot and the LAW IS CALLED. Now that would stop it.


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Badlander by all means if the landowners have descriptions of the vehicles or license plates i'm all for pressing charges that hurts all hunters. I would also like the descriptions and license plates if you guys do have them. Do you know for a fact that these vehicles were in the tournament?

It is obviously impossible for a tournament director to watch every team all day but we have thought about the judges thing but to find enough people to ride with as judges would be tough.

But again if there is landowners that had "hunters" breaking the law on their land by all means call the game warden! :******:


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## nitwit (Dec 18, 2004)

Hello all,
Well, here goes. I don't think hunting (of any sort or any animal) should be a competition - especially an organized competition. I don't think I would ever participate in a tournament, but I also have no problem with those who enjoy them. However, it just stupifies me that people would enter a tournament, then cheat to win (win what?). Until I read about all the measures taken to try to curb the cheating I wouldn't have believed it could happen. 
Obviously the honest people who enter and participate in tournaments do so for the fellowship and the friendly bragging rights. I'm sure it's also nice to win a little gas money if you deserve it and decide to accept it. 
Maybe the prize money should be split between the teams who bring in the fewest animals - they wouldn't even have to cheat to win it. Would the participation suffer if the proceeds were donated to charity? Would people come if the event were promoted as a "Rendezvous" rather than a contest or tournament? I suspect that both alternatives would attract those who have the "spirit" of the event foremost in their minds. 
Anyway, I wish good luck to all who participate in tournaments and do so with only the highest personal and hunting ethics.
Nitwit


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Nitwit 
Some tournaments do give to the local charities the Classic gives some of the proceeds from the Calcutta to a local charity

As far as splitting the money between the teams that get the least i could see a lot of problems although the idea is kind of nice  One of them would be what would stop someone that dosen't hunt from entering jsut to get a part of the check or from a team entering and then not hunting that would be pretty sorry but you see what i'm saying?


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

I would hunt in a tournament where all the entry money was donated to a charity. I enjoy the hunting, the fellowship with the others afterward, and I think they would have offer some food or something afterward to add to the atmosphere. I would have no problem in that. Especially if the money went to a good cause.


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## LeviM (Dec 3, 2006)

My opinion, I love hunting tournaments. Do I do it for the money? Absolutely not. I do it for the competition and seeing how I rank amoung other predator hunters. I get self satisfaction knowing that I try as hard as I can and have the possiblitity of placing amoung many of the best predator hunters out there. My goal is to hunt nationals someday. I know people cheat and there is nothing I can do about it. My theory is if I hunt fair and honestly that I will eventually be rewarded.


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Well put Levi i'm on the same level with why i hunt the tournaments


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## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

In a conversation with a game warden I recently learned that people caught running coyotes with vehicles (trucks, atv's, sleds, etc) receive fines of nearly $500.


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## kase (Jan 23, 2005)

horsager

thats great that they receive fines...but i think they should be a lot steeper than that. in my opinion, punishment for the breaking of game laws is no more than a slap on the wrist.

brad

i see now what the blocks do. that's kindof what i thought before...i just wasn't for sure. it's kindof a judgement call by the guys running the tourney huh?

also, i agree with levi, and fallguy both. i don't do it for the money. i know that i'm pretty green when it comes to coyote hunting and have little to no chance of winning a tournament...or even placing for that matter. i just like to get together afterwards with guys that love this stuff like i do and have a few beers...hopefully learn something. i could talk hunting for hours on end.

kase


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## Brad.T (Mar 29, 2004)

Kase you don't give yourself enough credit but i agree the comoroderie (sp) is have the fun


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## Deermeister (Feb 7, 2005)

Amidst all this complaining, all these "cheaters" must not have showed up this weekend because there were only 7 coyotes brought in. bontop2, Goose Bandit, and I were in a 3 way tie for 1st place with 2 dogs. We called all day, as cold as it was and had little luck. We shot 2 of the 3 we saw. We worked our TAILS off calling.


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