# Rough winter in SW ND?



## tut

I'm booked to come in with two others into the Mott area for the opener next fall, driving all the way from Virginia. Understand the winter may be the worst in several years. How much snow is on the ground and how are the birds holding up? Seems like I may have picked a bad one, but its too late to change now. As they say the checks in the mail. Regards from Virginia.


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## njsimonson

Tut,

I can't disagree with you, it is one of the worst winters in years. However, it is not the worst I have ever seen. The winter of 96-97 makes this winter look like a cakewalk.

The majority of snowfall hit the central and northern parts of the state, and the current groundcover out west, and in fact along the whole lower portion of the state isn't too bad.

See: http://www.intellicast.com/Local/USNati ... e&pid=none

My buddies were hunting coyotes last weekend and saw quite a few birds still kickin in the Wishek area, which is good sign for birds everywhere. Besides, out west, there were large, nearly unbelievable numbers of birds, so even if some died out, there will be plenty next year.

After a tough January, I'm trying to stay positive on the whole fall outlook.

I am sure you will have fun in Mott next October.

Say do you do much smallie fishing out there on the East Coast? I'm pretty active on riversmallies.com and like to hear all the action on the Juniata, Susquahana, Shenandoah, and other big smallie rivers out east...you ever fish them?


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## Rick A.

Do you ever fish smallies on the Red Lake River? Any hotspots you're willing to share? Don't you owe me for a few rooster spots? Thanks!
[email protected]


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## Brad Anderson

Winter is far from over.

Days like today sure are nice though!


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## tut

Quite a few in the Shendoah river. However while everyone talks about those nice four pounders, the reality is most will run about 12 to 15 inches long. The good and bad thing around here is the Shendoah has some polution problems (mercury) and there is fish advisories advising folks not to eat but so many ounces of fish per week. Therefore most folks practice catch and release and therefore the fish seem to be getting bigger every year.

IMO the better river for smallmouth locally is the upper part of the Potomac river. Big water means bigger fish. Fishing those areas with beetlespins and tiny torpedo's during the late spring and summer can be a blast with lots of action. :lol:


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## holmsvc

Rick,

Nope, I fish 'em on the Sheyenne. Gimme a holler when you want to go, I'm open most weekends from May til the end of July. I didn't even know there were smallies on the RLR. Might have to give that a try this spring.

I can smell spring...it won't be long now.


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## njsimonson

That last reply from holmsvc is me, I was just borrowing his computer and forgot to sign him out. Though, on most trips it's holms and I fishing smallies anyhow...so we're both well acquainted with the river.


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## hookup215

hi i am new to this sight iwould like to type and email talk to tut the person from virginia about mott north dakota thanks


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## tut

Ok, ND hunters. Has it finally warmed up. We are considering cancelling next year, but I would like to think things have gotten better in the SW corner of the state?


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## tsodak

No Offense, but trying to forecast the fall right now is like picking next weeks lotto numbers. Sure the winter has been harder than normal, but we also have different habitat conditions, and high numbers going in. IMHO, and others, winter is only one part of the equation. We could lose a lot of our birds now, have an ideal nesting season, and have higher numbers than last fall next season. Visa versa works as well, easy winters sometimes in the 90's but miserable nesting success limited bird expansions.

Personally, everything I see and hear says that we are just fine, better than last year, at least at this point and in my area.

:beer:


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## tut

Not sure if Jamestown is close to where the Mott area is or not, but it appears there is some melting going on from what I can determine. Looks like the bigger issue is what the hatch will be like next year. Curious has anyone been seeing Sharpies or Huns?


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## njsimonson

Being new to the sport I always hear from those more knowledgable than me, "It's spring we need to worry about"

If we get a late cold blast in April or early May, or we get tons of rain in the spring, that's what could hurt the population.

Keep your ear to the ground. I am pretty sure there will be birds in SW ND. Drier, warmer, lots of grassland, usually there's birds.

Tut- I saw 2 sharpies on the side of the road out near Devils Lake. They looked pretty cold when I saw them a couple weeks ago, but they were alive.


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## Field Hunter

Don't worry. If it's the Mott area you're going to next Fall there won't be a problem. Even if they're down with wnterkill there will many pheasants left. They grossly underharvest the available birds in the SW due to the high amount of G/Os.


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## tsodak

Besides, if you are "booked in" witha G/O, if there aren't wild birds raised, they will just release some pseudo-wild birds. You will have what you paid to shoot, and more.....


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## Travis Schmidt

Tut
Its warmed up here in N.D. this past week. My mom said it was in the 41 degrees at home yesterday. I go to school in Fargo but am from the Southwest part of the state and make it back there quite often. Don't cancel your trip, the pheasant hunting should be great. I was out in Mott last fall for a weekend. Its unbelievable the amount of birds in that area. There's plenty of good winter cover because of all the CRP in the area. There is more snow there than in past years, but it could be alot worse. You have to remember that the last 5 winters have been some of the nicest on record. Of course the winter is far from over and a the weather in early June will be a factor, but from the number of birds I seen in that area I don't see how the hunting won't be good. See you this fall.


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## tut

I'm keeping my fingers crossed the worse of it is over and hoping for a good hatch. Two years ago the numbers I saw of pheasants in the SW corner of the state were unbelieveable and last year I heard it was better. Actually two years ago it was almost too easy (if there is such a thing). Don't mind working for a few hours to get my pheasants. Something about being limited out in 45 minutes makes it less satisfying.


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## Dick Monson

tut, have you considered winging it on your own instead of using an outfitter? It isn't as easy but the independance is very gratifying. With the freedom to move there is a better chance at other species of upland also.


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## Brad Anderson

That is the difference between shooting and hunting.


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## Field Hunter

Good point, Dick. If you have a good dog and even without one you CAN have as satifying a hunt as with an outfitter. If you like to the see the sunrise and hunt through out the day, I'd just about garranty you'll get your birds without an outfitter. Really very little work involved and you may not have to travel as far.


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## tut

Here in Virginia we can hunt grouse on public land and I've often spent an entire day trying for a bird or two. Each bird is considered a trophy and is earned with sweat (and sometime blood counting falling down mountains on rocks). However when one is driving about 1,700 miles in a day or so, one wants to make sure he gets into birds. Actually for me it is all about the dogs. Even after we got our limits two years ago we continued to hunt for sharpies and huns. Didn't get very many, but the dogs continued to work the most magnificient bird scent they had ever encounted.

PS. If I was retired and had the time I would have no problems with driving out and looking for public areas and hoping to find a few birds. What the outfitter gives us is access to lots of birds. After that we are on our own to have fun. Will say the people in ND and Mt are just about the nicest I've encountered anywhere. Lots of smiles and good hospitality virtually everywhere I went.


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## hookup215

hey tut thanks for writing me back. i spoke with a lady sunday from sw ndshe said the winter was a little tougher this year but she said their are pheasants all over. she told me in the tough winters they feed the birds.they said they were feeding alot of birds.i am planning a hunt to nd in october2004.maybe we could meet and swap stories or just have coffee that goes for anyone else that goes this year also.what kind of dogs do you guys hunt with i have labs


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## KEN W

Tut and hookup....if you are here in Oct.....that's pheasant shooting....the REAL hunting starts after deer season in Nov.

Sure it's great to see all those birds and get easy limits.Plus the scent is so strong my GWP is on point all the time.BUT it gets much tougher in Nov. and Dec. when you see 10-15 hens for 1 rooster.


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## Dick Monson

tut, if you are heading to sw ND anyway, later in the season is far easier to get on. I hunted that area extensively BC (before Cannonball), and one does not have to be in the heart of Mott for a good hunt. Move over farther and the experiance will be better. I don't know how your outfitter works but when I watched one a few years ago it left much to be desired. The hunters didn't even get their own birds, nor did the dogs get to retrieve the shooters birds, (too many falling at the center). I always made a point to swing over to the breaks of the Little Mo for grouse in the bullberries. There is nothing perttier than the badlands with snow. Good luck.


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## tut

This is a rancher who farms thousands of acres who does the bird hunts on the side. His name is Jim Erikson. Jim did exactly what we hoped for. He drove us to areas first to get the lay of the land and showed us where the property lines were. He also provided us detailed maps to the different areas (I think he has about 8,500 acres total). We told him we didn't want to hunt anyone else and he was able to do that with no problem. Anyway, super nice fellow and he takes care of his birds. He is supplemental feeding the last time we talked and had a few thousand birds coming to various waste grain areas. He also transports water to various fields when there is a drought to insure the birds have plenty of water. Guess what I'm saying is he is managing his resource.

Jim is not your typical outfitter or so I've been told as he doesn't guide you and doesn't have dogs etc. That works fine with us.

Also for what it worth, we bring three dogs with us. Two Maine Bred Springer Spaniels and my 4 year old Golden retriever. My golden is a field bred golden who weighs 62 pounds who just loves those ND pheasants.   Tut


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## Brad Anderson

So, how much does access cost??? Just curious.


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## SCpheasanthntr

Tut, I don't know how much you are paying for the trip, but I would seriously consider cancelling and winging it on your own. If you have the experience you shouldn't have any problem getting your birds every day. We usually hunt for 10 days and spend no more than a $1000 per person, if we sqeezed our pennies we could of probably saved a couple of hundred more per person. We didn't get to hunt last year, but we did go the year before...4 of us limited out every day. There are other parts of the state that have as many birds and a lot more access...that's all I'll say about that. We are leaving October 22, and I can't wait!


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## tut

I think we are paying $115 per day at Jim's place. Don't know how that compares with other operations, but the people are nice and birds are/were everywhere when we were there. I know he is supplemental feeding about 2,000 pheasants the last time we spoke. That seemed quite reasonable compared to other places I knew of, and since I have hunted there I'm confortable with the set up, which is worth a lot to my hunting buddies and myself.


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## SCpheasanthntr

Does that include room and board? Is that $115 for the whole party or per person?


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## tut

$115 per person not including lodging. He does have a nice house available for rent for $35 per night per person. Kennels outside, or a mudroom if you want the dogs inside. IMO you can't find a nicer fellow to take care of you. Tut


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## SCpheasanthntr

What if I told you that you could do the same thing on your own...without paying the $115 a day? No offense, but I think that you are getting ripped off. You do what you feel comfortable with, but it's not as hard as you think. Good Luck on your trip!


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## skyball

The ice storm yesterday probably did some major damage on the birds.

And for the record, when I go out west I hunt for free. I knock on doors and offer them some cleaned birds after the hunt.


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## Bobm

See what I mean he thinks $115.00 per day is a deal and it would be for that kind of bird hunting out east. Tut you can limit out just about anywhere across the southern half of the state for free I do it every year everytime I go, ( well sometimes I miss a lot :lol: ) but if I was a good shot I would limit out by lunchtime every day without any trouble. And I have never paid anyone


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## SCpheasanthntr

I would be super nice if I was getting $115X3 a day too!


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## Dick Monson

When a hunter makes use of a fee hunt arrangement is liability insurace included for the farmer? I was told that is almost impossible to get from most companies or at least cost prohibitive? Could be wrong but don't most umbrella policies preclude activities with guns in the field when money has been exchanged? I beleive ND has a specific law to cover the farmer from responsibility when no money exchange or barter has taken place with the hunter.


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## tut

Everywhere I've hunted for a fee has had you sign a release that you will not sue the owner if you are injured during hunting.

Boy you folks make it sound easy. I've talked to lots of out of state hunters who have advised me they have had little to no sucess trying the knocking on door routine early in the season. Perhaps if we came in Nov or December it wouldn't be a problem. However I must admit the idea of driving 1,500 miles and then knocking on doors to find a place to hunt doesn't seem like a sure thing to me. Also, I looked at hunting geese in Canada just to the North of ND and most outfitters wanted $400 per day for a three day hunt. In comparrison $115 per day seems like a bargain.


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## Brad Anderson

Freelance hunting isn't for everybody. Ya gotta weed through all the "no's" just to get one "yes" sometimes. Some landowners aren't real friendly either.

"Limiting out" everytime isn't the norm. I hunted pheasants at least 4 days a week last fall. On really windy days (30 mph wind or better), the birds are not easy targets. They will hold super tight or run 1/2 a mile ahead of you. Even with a good dog, windy days suck. And ya, ND holds the title as the worlds "windiest state".


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## Bagman

I wish I lived in a state that allowed me to earn enough money to where I felt $115-400 a day to shoot birds half way across the country was AFFORDABLE!!


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## Nodak Duke

From what I have heard, the winterkill has really not been all that bad in the SW area of the state... This month as well as the spring are really huge as far as the birds go... Late, wet snows, coupled with wet nesting conditions are what absolutely kill populations.

You should have good hunting in the Mott area... As long as you have land connections there and have your head on straight you will get plenty of shooting in.


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## tut

Don't get me wrong, I've got two kids in college and another one headed that way.  No way could I afford $400 per day to hunt, however many folks can and do when it come to goose or big game hunting. Thank goodness I've gotten away from deer hunting which is very pricy. I have friends who book with outfitters out west (MT) every year at $2,500 for a five day hunt, with another $700 or so for the out of state license.

With three of us driving to split the gas and with good dog motels where required (and pinching pennies throughout the year), $345 for a three day hunt appears to be a bargain. If I wanted to go to a shooting preserve here in Va the cost for four birds is $100, and the only good deal in that is the dog has some fun as it is like shooting chickens in ones front yard. Anyway, if you go into the Web and search around for outfitters for birds in ND or SD and check most prices $115 per day will seem like a bargain compared to most.

Also, for what its worth we don't group hunt and the three of us have hunted about 25 years together. If a drive was required to get our pheasants I'd just as soon shoot released birds. Also, guess all of us are the shy type and also have been burned in trying to get free access to bird hunt. Many times in Virginia I have had doors slammed in my face and on two occasions dogs sic'ed on me when I knocked on doors and asked permission to bird hunt. One time a fellow sent five dogs after me and it was a race to my vehicle so I wouldn't turn into Va road kill.

Anyway, love your state and the people, and that includes the people who work in the restaurants, gas stations etc. I give ya'll credit, I could take that cold weather for six months out of the year. Regards Tut


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## njsimonson

Sounds like it is time for you to move to ND!


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## hookup215

hi tut for what its worth i have been doing the same thing this year trying to plan a trip to nd(pheasant heaven).i would do the same thing that is join aclub it is much eaiser to go to a club than it is to fight with 400 other guys trying to hunt pheasants in the same place that im trying to hunt in.I've hunted chickens for years. to take more than 10 pheasants in a year would be a great year many times you walk for ever,all day and get one shot.I to have a kid in coolge and one getting ready to go next year. sometimes peace of mind is worth the extra money.I am jealous or envious of these guys that live here in nd.I save up for awhole year to make this trip for one week.Then when i get home my first thought is only 52 more weeks and it starts all over again.In my state it is hard and expenisive to hunt anything.an average club costs about 2000 dollars.all that said i guess its time to move to north dakota.i guess i could buy another coat lol see ya sam


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## Zeboy

Take it from a non resident who has "freelance hunted" ND for 15 years . . . It's gotten a whole lot harder the past three years to gain access to land. It was easier before the PLOTS program was so successful. Many of those areas you could get on before and there wan't much pressure. Now there overrun with hunters. Just my opinion anyway.

It's going to be real interesting to see what all the new G/O do the next time ND has a bad weather year and they loose most of the birds and they have all these people paying big bucks to hunt???


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## KEN W

They will release penned raised birds...those rich guys won't know the difference.


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## tut

When I was driving back from New England ND two years ago we decided to cut down through SD. On the route we saw a few pheasant rearing operations and they had pen raised birds in pens which were as large as a house. Thousands of birds. Although I'm not aware that they do such things in ND, I think it may be common practice to supplement pen raised birds with wild birds with some of the big outfitters in SD.

PS. Can tell you the the of us have been hunting wild pheasants in Pa for about 20 years (back when Pa was killing about a million birds a year). We can certainly tell the difference.

The only thing positive about pen raised birds is the dogs can't tell.


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## Brad Anderson

There are many farmers who raise and release pheasants. Every year thousands of birds are released. Some years the NDGF pays farmers to raise and release birds. The survival rate of released birds is anywhere from 10% to 2%.

Pen raised birds are just as smart as wild ones. You might have to shoot at them a couple times, but they catch on quick.


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## Scraper

Raising and releasing birds has been tried with complete failure so many times that I cannot believe that it continues to come up. Transplanting wild birds is the only "release" that has ever been successful. If you don't believe me do some searches and read the research.

Where is the NDGF paying farmers to raise and relese birds? If they are it is a total waste of our tax dollars. What SD tries to do is replace the birds that are shot on farms that are hunted every day to keep the "quality" of the hunts high.

They aren't as smart and they don't have the survival instincts that wild birds do.


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## Brad Anderson

I don't advocate releasing birds, I was just responding to the above posts. I know first hand they don't stand much of a chance. I look at it like stocking lakes with fish. If there aren't any to begin with, why not. It may be wishful thinking, but for some it may be peace of mind.

The area I was referencing is Hwy 200 and north. They have been releasing birds for a long time, and still don't have much to show. IMO, that area just doesn't have the right mix of weather and habitat.


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## prairie hunter

uke:

Yes some SD outfitters stock roosters into their "hot spots".

A few years ago we were hunting in SD. Drove by a field where corn had been cut, but there were long narrow rows of corn left standing. 100s if not 1000s of roosters were standing around in these rows. Not a hen in sight.

Standard practice at more $300 - $500/day places then one may believe.


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## hookup215

HEY ANY BODY BEEN OUT SCOUTING FOR PHEASANTS. HOW ARE THINGS LOOKING.LOOKING FORWARD TO GOING THIS FALL .HOW WAS THE SPRING GOOSE HUNTING SAM


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## Southwest Fisher

If anyone's still paying attention to this subject, it has ben very dry so far ourt west, but the bird population is very high. In some area outside of Mott-Regent there was actually less hunting last year, so the number of birds is high. Don't expect to have any trouble finding them this fall.


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## tut

Guessing the winter is long gun. Now the problem is rain or lackthereof in the SW corner of the state. Curious how it's looking for pheasants and how the sharpies and huns held up. I'll be out there for the opener good lord willing. Tut


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## Southwest Fisher

We're still looking good North of I94, I'll ask my roommate how Mott/Regent is looking, he's farming there all summer.


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