# 223 rate of twist ?



## RiveRat (Sep 19, 2004)

Need some help from some of you .223 guys. I'm really liking the new Ultra-lite stainless Ruger 77 in .223. It has a 1-12 rh rate of twist. Other .223s, I'm seeing, have a 1-8 rate of twist. I know that a faster rate of twist stabilizes a heavier bullet better, but at what weight and type of bullet does the instability show up with the slower twist? Does the 1-8 twist shoot all weights/types well or is it bad for lighter weights? I am a handloader, so if there are certain load combinations that work well in solving rate of twist problems, I'd like to hear about them. The largest animal I would hunt with this would be a coyote. Which rate of twist would you choose? I appreciate your opinions on this. Thanks


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

My son and I each have a Ruger M77 in .223. His is a bull barrel, mine is not. I was under the impression both were 1 in 12 twist, if I'm incorrect someone please do let me know? We have both rifles shooting the same load; 55 gr. Nosler ballistic tips backed with 21.5 gr. of Hodgdon H4198. If the rifles are of differebt twist, they are both sharing the load well..... :huh:


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## bighands (Dec 12, 2005)

The 1-12 twist works good with 55gr. and lighter bullets in the .223, and that is the range most people use for Coyote hunting. I have a Ruger Ultralite .223 with 12" twist and it shoots real good with 40, 50 and 55gr bullets, The 40gr. V-max and 40gr Ballistic Tip are my favorites. I don't think a faster twist would do you any good for coyote hunting, In fact it might even make those light bullets less stable.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

I have this same gun and was wondering, what about 60gr bullets? Id shoot varmint bullets, or 55gr FMJ most of the time, but I would like to know If 60gr is at least a possibility.

You see there are these things called 60gr Nosler partitions, and I was thinking they would look good next to the 55gr Bear Claws.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

In my Savage 223 I'm shooting 40 to 60 grains without any problems but it has a 1-9 twist. I did notice on a box of Sierra 65 grain Gamekings it has a warning for use in 7"-10" twist rates only. However on the box of Nosler 60 grain partitions there is no such warning.


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## RiveRat (Sep 19, 2004)

*MossyMo*, I think all the Rugers are a 1-12 twist. I should have been more clear in my post in that I was refering to other makes when I was talking about the 1-8 twist. I guess that some of the early 223's had 1-14 twists. Speer's manual states that using a 1-7 twist with light skinned varmint bullets will cause the bullet to litterally tear apart as it leaves the muzzle if you get the velocity up to 3200fps or so. They say the rotation at that speed is 300,000 rpm. If a 55 grain will do a coyote, I think I'll be good with the Ruger. *bighands*, what do you think of the rifle? What did you go with for a scope?


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

RiveRat, if you can get your hands on the February issue of Shooting Times, Rick Jamison has an excellent article entitled, Loading the 22-250 For Deer. In it he addresses different weights of bullets, loads, and the effect of pressure and bullet performance when fired in barrels of varying twist. Very informative. Even though you will be hunting coyotes, much of this article may interest you. Good shooting, Burl


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## bighands (Dec 12, 2005)

*RiveRat*, I really like that Ruger, they are a little sloppy on the machine work (like Ruger always is) and I had to work on the bedding a little. also the trigger needed work (sdhandgunner sent me some excellent instructions on how to do the trigger job, now it works great) The gun really handles nice and you can carry it all day with no problem. Mine shoots 3/8" - 1/2" groups at 100yds. The action design is excellent and I like the 3 position safety. I put a Nikon 3 x 9 x 40 Buckmasters on it for around $200 and it works good too, It's kind of a heavy scope, But I think that's because it's made of real glass and metal (no plastic).
*mr.trooper*, It might be possible to get 60gr bullets to shoot with the 12" twist, I'd almost bet they would shoot straight with the highest velocity loads.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Great! I'll have to test them out on some Yotes first. 8)


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## bighands (Dec 12, 2005)

*mr.trooper*, You got me curious about the 60gr Nosler Partition, I just checked the new Nosler book and it shows loads for it with a 12" twist. Looks like you can get about 3100fps. with H-4895 in the 20" barrel, I might have to try some! Let me know what happens if you try them.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Unfortunately tomarow is the LAST day of coyote season here in Indiana, and I have classes all day. Those furry buggers are safe untill next October.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I knew I would find it sooner or later http://www.kriegerbarrels.com/RapidCat/ ... anyId=1246

Available twist rates: 1-6.5 (90 grain bullets) 1-7.7 (69-80 grain bullets); 1-9 (55-69 grain bullets); 1-13 (up to 55 grain bullets).

I have a 15 that has a 1-8 twist. I shoot 50 gr speer TNT bullets out of it and have zero problems.

The only down side to shooting a over stabilized bullet is at range they tend to nose up a little and you do not get the full range that you would under a normal twist. With a 1-12 twist you should be able to shoot the 60gr bullets pretty darn easily. You never really know how a tube is going to shoot until you start putting bullets down it. I have a 223 AR-15 that will shoot any thing from a 50gr to a 69gr well under a inch with almost any powder and a 308 that loves heavy bullets to the point it will not shoot a 150gr bullet in less than 3 inches and only likes one type of powder.

If you shoot too heavy a bullet they will not fully stabilize and will tumble in-flight. This can also happen when you are just stabilizing bullets then shooting in sub 0 temps. So a little over stabilizing can be a good thing. With my 1-8 shooting Speer TNT they totally explode when hitting a PD. I am sure they are probably spinning as fast as they can. I am also shooting at 3100fps.

Rather than being birthed like a normal child, Chuck Norris instead decided to punch his way out of his mother's womb. Shortly thereafter he grew a beard.


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## sdbaydogs (Jun 11, 2004)

My Cooper has a 1 in 14" twist. I have tried several different rounds and I've found it likes two rounds *ALOT*. 50 gr Blitzkings @ 3100 fps and 45 gr Win JHP @ 3600 fps. Both loads will consistantly shoot 1/4" to 3/8 groups at 100 yrds. I have tried 40 gr Blitzkings @ 3450 fps and Hornaday 40 gr V-max @ 3800 fps and both will produce 1/2" to 3/4" groups. I would have figured the lighter faster bullets would have faired better in the Cooper but it just digests the 45 and 50 gr ones better.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

The only Ruger .223 to use a Twist Rate not 1 in 12" is the Mini 14's, and I believe they are a 1 in 9" Twist.

I have had and loaded for several Ruger M77's in .223 over the years. In all but one (that one had a bad chamber) I was more than pleased with the accuracy. Yes the triggers are easily tuned if you are adequately skilled in such things and there are very good instructions on the net that walk you through it step by step even including drawings.

I have used bullets ranging from the 40gr. Hornady V-MAX & 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip through 64gr. Winchester Power Points in 1 in 12" Ruger .223's with excellent results. No the 64gr. Winchester Power Points were not as accurate as the lighter weights, generally printing 5 rounds in a 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" group at 100 yards with no signs of keyholing at all.

More importantly to twist rate than the bullet weight is the bullets length. I have (over the years) measured the length of some of the .224" Bullets I have loaded, as well as obtaining the bullet lengths of some from the bullet manufacturers. What I have for bullet lengths follows:

.224 " - 40gr. Speer Spire Point = .505"

.224" - 40gr. Sierra Hollow Point = .565"

.224 " - 45gr. Hornady "Hornet" = .605"

.224 " - 50gr. Speer TNT Hollow Point = .682"

.224" - 55gr. Winchester Pointed Soft Point = .693"

.224" - 52gr. Speer Flat Base Hollow Point = .698"

.224" - 40gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip = .703"

.224" - 55gr. Sierra Spitzer = .710"

.224" - 50gr. Sierra BLITZKING = .780"

.224" - 50gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip = .788"

.224" - 64gr. Winchester Power Point = .798"

.224" - 50gr. Hornady V-MAX = .800"

.224" - 55gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip = .808"

.224" - 55gr. Hornady V-MAX = .813"

.224" - 65gr. Sierra Spitzer Boat Tail = .840"

.224" - 70gr. Berger VLD = .966"

.224" - 68gr. Hornady BTHP = .985"

.224" - 75gr. Hornady BTHP = .984"

.224" - 80gr. Nosler HPBT = 1.070"

.224" - 75gr. Hornady A-MAX = 1.098"

You can go to http://www.z-hat.com/twistrate.htm and scroll down to the Greenhill Twist Rate Calculator and click on it. Then enter the Caliber (in inches), click on the velocity rate, and enter the length of the bullet and it will calculate the approximate Twist Rate for that bullet at that velocity range.

Larry


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

SDHandgunner
You and I exchanged emails last summer, your hard work and recipes are a joy to most of our ears, I hope in the future to bring valuable info back to you. 
You have gave and saved me numerous trips to the range and changes in my loads(your loads work excellent in the rifle model/caliber we share).

LARRY KNOWS HIS STUFF...

Thank You...


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## RiveRat (Sep 19, 2004)

I want to thank everyone who replied to this post. It's amazing to me the amount of expertise that is held by the members of this forum and their willingness to share it. Thank you.


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## SDHandgunner (Jun 22, 2004)

Thanks MossyMO, it is really just a lot of record keeping (mine prior to the computer age were not the best) and a lot of trial and some error. I used to go to western South Dakota 2 or 3 times per summer in search of the Whiley Prairie Dog. As such I have shot my fair share of .223 Handloads over the past 24 years or so (I think 1982 was the first time I ventured out west in search of Prairie Dogs).

I just recently aquired a NEW Ruger KM77RFP MKII Stainless-Synthetic in .223. I have the Trigger Tuned and the Barrel Free Floated. So far I have not had the opportunity to finish my prep work so I can get out and shoot it. I still need to clean the bore, hand lap the bore (then reclean the bore obviously) and get to the range to break in it / sight it in.

Hopefully in the next week or two I'll get it finished up. Part of the hold up is I am still trying to decide which scope to put on it.

Larry


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## bighands (Dec 12, 2005)

I agree with MossyMo, "LARRY KNOWS HIS STUFF" he helped me out with my trigger job and I have read his posts for quite a while now. He is also a Police Officer and a heck of a nice guy. He deserves lots of thanks and respect.

Thank You


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