# The ammo boom is no dud



## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

*The ammo boom is no dud*

*As gun shoppers are discovering, it's becoming easier to buy a gun than ammunition*
By Colin Moore
Special to ESPNOutdoors.com

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunt ... id=4021404

As a growing number of gun shoppers are discovering these days, it's becoming easier to buy a gun than it is to purchase the ammunition for it. Shortages of popular handgun calibers in particular have dealers and customers fuming, and ammo makers have shifted their production lines into overdrive to keep up with the demand. How long will the "bullet bubble" last? That depends in large part on politics in Washington and in statehouses across the land, and the messages that various legislative efforts convey.

Concerns over what the election of Barack Obama portends for gun owners is the main cause for the inflated demand for ammunition. In fact, since last November's election ammunition has been flying off store shelves faster than you can say "microstamping," with sales increases topping 100 percent in many areas. Gun sales ramped up by 42 percent last November, but have cooled off slightly since. From Election Day to now, the monthly sales average for firearms has been about 29 percent higher than normal. February sales tailed off a bit, to slightly more than 23 percent over average, according to sales figures compiled by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF).

Ted Novin, the NSSF's director of public affairs, says that the next report on ammunition sales won't be in until May, but there's enough anecdotal evidence to suggest more boom times for the gun crowd - literally and figuratively.









*A spike in searches for the term 'ammo' reflects an increased public interest since late 2008.*

"From what we've heard, ammunition manufacturers are operating at full capacity in an attempt to keep up with demand," says Novin. "Gun owners are worried about taxes being added to ammo, or worried about new laws that will affect the production, and consequently the price, of ammunition. It's understandable; there are a lot of people in power now who have a long history of supporting bills that violate Second Amendment rights."

Valerie Peters, a spokesperson for Winchester Ammunition in East Alton, Ill., says her company's plant is running "24/7" in an attempt to keep up with demand. "It seems that there has been a demand for all calibers since last fall," says Peters. "We're keeping production systems going around the clock and through the weekends."

Jim Rausher, co-owner of Joe's Sporting Goods in St. Paul, Minn., spends a lot of time talking with his customer and listening to their concerns when they sidle up to the cash register with handfuls of ammo boxes. Though most customers think that any attempts by the Obama administration and its legislative surrogates to circumvent the Second Amendment will be quashed, they're not so sure about the prospects for ammunition. "A lot of my guys think that the government is going to tax ammo to the point that it gets ungodly expensive," says Rausher. "So they're buying ammo and putting it away - 9mm, .380, .38 Special, .40 S&W, .45 - all the popular stuff. I think they're probably on the right track. Something is coming; something is going to happen. Whether it's microstamping or non-lead bullets, ammo is going up in cost."

At Mark's Outdoor Sports in Birmingham, Ala., owner Mark Whitlock is nonplussed by what has apparently become a rush to hoard ammo. "I've seen some strange things in the past 29 years in business *but I never thought I'd see the day when I would make one order in one day for more ammo than I sold during all of the previous year," *said Whitlock. "I'm doing that, knowing I won't get it, and also knowing that if I did, I could sell it all and be ordering more three days later."

Beside the popular handgun calibers such as 9mm and .380 (whose shortage might be due to the fact that ammo companies run it on the same production lines as the more popular 9mm), Mark's Outdoor Sports also is running low on even popular rifle loads such as .223, .30-06, .308 and .270.

"I had a guy come in my store who bought $5,000 worth of shotgun ammo for his bird hunting - this is in March. He's worried about ammo shortages too, but nothing like the handgun and rifle guys," observed Whitlock. "It's like a run on grocery stores when a hurricane is coming. It's milk-and-bread time, down to whatever you can get."

Al Russo, a spokesman for Remington Arms in Madison, N.C., echoes Whitlock's assessment of the irrational rush to buy ammunition, though he added that his company wasn't complaining.

"We underestimated the impact of a Democratic president; we didn't fully understand the 'fear factor' that would result among our best customers," says Russo. "Even if everything leveled off tomorrow, it would take 60 to 90 days for our production to normalize. We have no inventory, the trade has no inventory and the stores have no inventory. What's worse, the supply of reloading components has really dried up. There's a shortage of primers and bullets, so the reloaders are temporarily out of luck, too."

Industry spokespeople are reluctant to predict when the ammo-buying stampede will have run its course. Interestingly, though there is a shortage, the price of ammunition hasn't gone through the roof correspondingly. Russo puts the current increase rate at about 5 percent, though more for ammo manufactured overseas where supplies of components are often an issue even during normal times.

Is all the ammo-buying frenzy for naught? Do consumers have a misplaced distrust of politicians who, from a gun owner's perspective, just don't get it when it comes to the Second Amendment?

Last year, legislators in 20 states tried and failed to pass bills requiring ammo manufacturers to make bullets that were "microstamped" or serialized with codes that would identify the batches. Their premise was that ammo coding would make it easier for law enforcement agents to track down the sources of ammunition used in the commission of crimes. However, opponents argued that beyond driving manufacturing costs upward and requiring retailers to keep more records, such laws would have little deterrent effect on crimes committed by people who stole ammo or purchased it secondhand.

Though various lawmakers in New York, New Jersey, Hawaii, Virginia, Connecticut and Georgia have sponsored bills this spring to require serialized bullet codification or microstamping, it's doubtful that any will pass. Still, doubt isn't likely to deter ammo buyers.

Despite lots of saber rattling, a nuclear war between the United States and the former USSR was also doubtful back in the 60s, but that didn't keep people from building bomb shelters.


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## vtrons (Feb 14, 2008)

Good post, Ryan

Here in the northeast handgun ammo is scarce, and rifle ammo is almost twice the cost as last year.

I visited a local gun and ammo shop last week...he had re-ordered more Federal .223 ammo that day. He was told not to expect seeing it until sometime next year.

Maybe ammo will become the new world currency after the dollar tanks.

Just a thought.

In any case, what do you think the politicians are thinking about this?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Since you posted that Ryan I must say I have been waiting for a while now to ask you, have you changed your mind about restricting ammo to centralised depot type stores? I certainly hope your running away from that poor idea now. Consider this an opening for common sense to reign.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

The smart money is to stock up on both loaded ammo and components while you can. If the Dear Leader and his minions are held in check and you have a surplus on hand, if not, you better have enough to last you a long time......


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## Colt (Oct 25, 2007)

Obama uke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Despite lots of saber rattling, a nuclear war between the United States and the former USSR was also doubtful back in the 60s, but that didn't keep people from building bomb shelters.


Good comment, only fools are caught unprepared, and that has happened countless times throughout history. It's sort of like the old cliche about it being better to have a gun and not need it than need it and not have it. To think otherwise is natures way of weeding the unfit from the gene pool. Every once in a while the gene pool needs a little chlorine. If we would have had some chlorine a couple of years ago Obama wouldn't be in office today.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

The problem with stockpiling is that if they do succeed in passing a amunition serialization law it will likely call for the dispoal of 
non-serialized ammo within a year or so. Unless you plan on hiding it you'll have a year to shoot it or loose it.

I think out best way to fight this is to use data from the states that already require a fired case to be put in their database and quote their lack of success and cost.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

dakotashooter2 said:


> The problem with stockpiling is that if they do succeed in passing a amunition serialization law it will likely call for the dispoal of non-serialized ammo within a year or so. Unless you plan on hiding it you'll have a year to shoot it or loose it.


DS, I'm an LE adminstrator and I don't know any, myself included, who would cooperate in a federally mandated ammo seizure. The logistics of doing it, even with full cooperation of the citizens and local LE, is beyond comprehension.

Of course, if some feds from God-alone-knows-what agency care to come door to door to every house & farmstead out here in God's country and try to take our ammo, they are welcome to try.

And good luck to them...


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

NDTerminator said:


> dakotashooter2 said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with stockpiling is that if they do succeed in passing a amunition serialization law it will likely call for the dispoal of non-serialized ammo within a year or so. Unless you plan on hiding it you'll have a year to shoot it or loose it.
> ...


+1,000,000,000

Also in LE administration and I don't know of any department that would have the manpower required to do this. And then you have a rather large number of cops, at least in this area, who would be against such a thing.

Besides, I only have enough to fill the magazines I have on hand, no extra. 8)

huntin1


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## Mannlicher (Sep 18, 2005)

a prudent man looks ahead, sees a situation, and takes precautions.

That is what I think is going on. America elected the most radical leftist, anti gun socialist/communist in our history. Of COURSE there is going to be gun control in our near future.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

This must be part of the master plan! Obama creates such a hysteria that all the patient people buy up all the ammo. How is an impatient gang-banger going to do a drive by when he goes to Wal-Mart and can't get ammo. In the weeks it takes him to get ammo on special order maybe the these thugs end up hugging it out instead.

It's pretty ironic that a waiting period to purchase ammo was created by the gun owners themselves and not congress. :lol:


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Matt Jones said:


> This must be part of the master plan! Obama creates such a hysteria that all the patient people buy up all the ammo. How is an impatient gang-banger going to do a drive by when he goes to Wal-Mart and can't get ammo. In the weeks it takes him to get ammo on special order maybe the these thugs end up hugging it out instead.
> 
> It's pretty ironic that a waiting period to purchase ammo was created by the gun owners themselves and not congress. :lol:


Yeah, the Dear Leader & his minions are a real hoot. The spending like a frat boy with mommy & daddy's credit card, seizing private companies, and the coming tax increases are especially humorous. The constant threat to the american gun owner is a real knee slapper.

Good to know you are enjoying the situation. Lets others know where you stand... :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Matt Jones said:


> This must be part of the master plan! Obama creates such a hysteria that all the patient people buy up all the ammo. How is an impatient gang-banger going to do a drive by when he goes to Wal-Mart and can't get ammo. In the weeks it takes him to get ammo on special order maybe the these thugs end up hugging it out instead.
> 
> It's pretty ironic that a waiting period to purchase ammo was created by the gun owners themselves and not congress. :lol:


Take off those rose colored glasses Matt. I hope you don't have any stocked up. It would be good for guys with your attitude to spend a season watching the rest of us hunt. I hope you learn that lesson before it's to late for all of us.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

What lesson? I need you to spell it out for me because right now I'm starting to wonder if you're batshyte crazy.

It would be a lesson if I didn't stock up, and the government banned ammo. Under that scenario, you'd be right...that would be a lesson for me. And trust me I would be the first person to admit that I was wrong.

But the only lesson I'm seeing here is that paranoia has gone into overdrive and become full-fledged hysteria among the gun owning community. And you seem to be loving it???

IMO, it's pretty sad that you're hoping guys won't be able to hunt because they can't find ammo. What's even sadder is that something that people in this country should have a right to do is going to be hindered by the very same people who are supposedly defending it.

I'm wondering who's side you guys are on? It's becoming very clear to me that for some twisted reason you actually want an ammo shortage to happen.

And that's the irony. Gun owners have effectively done something that all the liberals in Washington couldn't do....make it impossible for your average law-abiding citizen to shoot a gun. Way to go. :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Well things look different from different perspectives. From my perspective it just looks like your whining because you got caught unprepared. Also, I am not hoping that some people don't get to hunt without good reason. Some people need that much of a shock before it sinks in that we do have a problem looming on the political horizon. I would like everyone to hunt next fall, but I want everyone to hunt the fall 100 years from now too. If many of you keep drinking the cool aid your drinking that isn't going to happen. So yes if that's what it takes is a fall with no hunting for some of you bring it on. It's not that I wish you bad for next fall, it's that I wish you good hunting for the rest of your life. If you don't see the trouble that is impending, then you will perhaps continue to misunderstand my motives also.



> And trust me I would be the first person to admit that I was wrong.


That's hard to believe since your already wrong and still in denial. As a matter of fact if you didn't get caught off guard you wouldn't be complaining, and somehow that's our fault. No matter the reason, real or unreal I knew it was going to happen. No matter if it was Obama directly, or gun owners afraid of Obama it was going to happen either way. If you didn't understand that ----- well look in the mirror to see who's fault it is if you can't find what you want. The reason matters little at this point. I blame liberal gun grabbers, you blame fellow hunters. :eyeroll:


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Matt Jones said:


> What lesson? I need you to spell it out for me because right now I'm starting to wonder if you're batshyte crazy.
> 
> It would be a lesson if I didn't stock up, and the government banned ammo. Under that scenario, you'd be right...that would be a lesson for me. And trust me I would be the first person to admit that I was wrong.
> 
> ...


Wow, talk about a weird spin. Plainsman (& others) are loving this situation?!!. With all due respect Matt, methinks you are the one who is bat crap crazy...

I suspect you weren't around or if so not old enough to remember the Carter years. If not, you were very lucky indeed. I was in HS then, and clearly remember recession, inflation, lines several blocks long to get a rationed amount of gas, fist fights at the pumps, the military & american gun owner treated like second class citizens, and the country generally run into the ground. Carter's leftist agenda damaged America so badly it took years to recover from.

And as a radical Left Lib, Obama makes Carter look like a talented amateur.

My stocking up on ammo & components is no different than our keeping on hand 50 gallons of fresh water, a generator, a couple months worth of basic food stuff, and the freezers full of wild game & bulk beef. We have been doing this for years and would have even if we didn't live in the country.

PLainsman is like me, we've been around long enough to have BTDT, and didn't like it the first time. Fortune favors the prepared and make no mistake, these are the most perilous times I've seen in my entire life time...


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

Plainsman wrote:



> That's hard to believe since your already wrong and still in denial. As a matter of fact if you didn't get caught off guard you wouldn't be complaining, and somehow that's our fault.


I think some folks need to chill out a little bit, check their meds, and start to think a little more clearly. Matt is right on this. We have folks who are so concerned about the threat of federal legislation that they are buying up and stockpiling ammo and components. The current shortage and prices are not a result of any government action, but a result of the free market system.

I did not see Matt complaining in his post. I'm not either. Matt was making the correct observation that the paranoid have created their own problem. They voluntarily started stockpiling ammo and components, creating a supply shortfall in the marketplace. Now the rest of us have to deal with it.

I am 100% sure that I will not be throwing rocks this fall, nor will I ten years from now. I am also 100% sure that the free market system will eventually respond with additional supplies to address current problems with prices.

For those of you that are so convinced that Obama wants your guns and the big bad feds are going to come knocking on your door, let me ask you something. Five or ten years from now when you still have your weapons and your ammo, are you going to post back on this page that you were wrong?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

BigDaddy said:


> For those of you that are so convinced that Obama wants your guns and the big bad feds are going to come knocking on your door, let me ask you something. Five or ten years from now when you still have your weapons and your ammo, are you going to post back on this page that you were wrong?


Nope.

Because HOPEFULLY ill be able to post on here that Obama and friends TRIED to take my guns away. TRIED to make it harder to purchase a weapon. TRIED to track all my firearm and firearm related purchases. TRIED to price the average person out of firearms and firearm related items. TRIED to force me to register my firearms and firearm related items, even though ive never broken the law. But due to the vigilance of some, were unable to.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The current shortage and prices are not a result of any government action, but a result of the free market system.


Your disappointing me BigDaddy in that you think were all so dumb we don't already know that.



> I did not see Matt complaining in his post.


If mat wasn't crying why bother to post? Because he doesn't want us stockpiling. What business is it of anyone if we want to stockpile?



> Matt was making the correct observation that the paranoid have created their own problem.


It would only paranoid if we are wrong. I like to be on the safe side. I look at Obama's history, I look at all the bills that are on the agenda, and they are not good.



> I am 100% sure


Not many people are 100% sure. There are many reasons you can be 100% sure, none of them flattering. :eyeroll: I'm not 100% sure Obama will get our guns. We may be able to stop him. However, I am not happy with a 10% chance that he will. If there is a 5% chance that food would be in such shortage that some of your family would starve this winter would you stockpile a little food? 
It's up to each individual what they want to do. I think those that never say it will happen are foolish indeed. You may think those who stockpile are foolish. I have nothing to loose by stockpiling some because I will eventually shoot it up. If I am wrong, no big deal. If your wrong ??????

Real or not I knew this would happen. If your so enthralled with Obama that you think this can never happen great. If I think I want to take precautions that's my prerogative, and I think it's arrogant for others to tell me not to. If you don't want to stockpile I don't care, but don't whine to me if I have analyzed the future correctly. If I didn't it's no skin of my nose. You guys run your life and the rest of us will run ours.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> It's up to each individual what they want to do. I think those that never say it will happen are foolish indeed. You may think those who stockpile are foolish. I have nothing to loose by stockpiling some because I will eventually shoot it up. If I am wrong, no big deal. If your wrong ??????


I have enough rounds for this next fall, so I am not worried about me. If I have to go out and buy some more at a premium price, then that's what I will have to do. It's all about choices.

The people that I worry about are the young folks and casual hunters who are unable or unwilling to drop $50 or more for a box of ammo. When we look at advancing sportsmen issues and battling commerical interests, we need as many sportsmen as possible.

Sadly, the stockpilers are driving up prices and indirectly providing another disincentive for people to stay or get involved in freelance hunting. This is further dividing our ranks at a time when we can't afford (pardon the pun) to be divided. That is what I am concerned about.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

BigDaddy said:


> > It's up to each individual what they want to do. I think those that never say it will happen are foolish indeed. You may think those who stockpile are foolish. I have nothing to loose by stockpiling some because I will eventually shoot it up. If I am wrong, no big deal. If your wrong ??????
> 
> 
> I have enough rounds for this next fall, so I am not worried about me. If I have to go out and buy some more at a premium price, then that's what I will have to do. It's all about choices.
> ...


So your more concerned about people stockpiling now than a man who's ultimate agenda is very likely to take it all away???

Id say your priorities are mixed up.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

BigDaddy said:


> I am 100% sure that I will not be throwing rocks this fall, nor will I ten years from now. I am also 100% sure that the free market system will eventually respond with additional supplies to address current problems with prices.
> 
> For those of you that are so convinced that Obama wants your guns and the big bad feds are going to come knocking on your door, let me ask you something. Five or ten years from now when you still have your weapons and your ammo, are you going to post back on this page that you were wrong?


No offense but you and jones are no defenders of the 2nd amendment, as a matter of fact you are the people our beloved govt. is counting on.

Most people would trade their guns for a few more scraps at the table. Especially now with the intentional man-made economy flush, make 'em bleed and they will turn them so fast Obama won't know how divide the crumbs so all get equal shares.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> No offense but you and jones are no defenders of the 2nd amendment, as a matter of fact you are the people our beloved govt. is counting on.


Bullsh$t. I'm not a defender of the 2nd amendment because I am not convinced that the government is after my guns? I'm not a defender because I don't follow the NRA mantra hook, line, and sinker? Or, is it because I don't forward all of the paranoid gun rights emails to this board and others without stopping to think a little first? Or, is it because some of us have the audacity to think for ourselves and call BS when it is BS?

So, please tell me... who are those people that the government is counting on? Maybe I missed something. Where is the law that now requires me to turn in my guns for food?

I think some on this board are the ones that have been fooled. However, some are so full of hate and paranoia relative to Obama that they don't see the fact that they have paid premium prices for ammo and firearms since the election. I sure wish that I owned stock in Winchester, Federal, or similar companies. I'd sit back, fan the paranoia flames, and count my cash.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

BigDaddy said:


> > No offense but you and jones are no defenders of the 2nd amendment, as a matter of fact you are the people our beloved govt. is counting on.
> 
> 
> Bullsh$t. I'm not a defender of the 2nd amendment because I am not convinced that the government is after my guns? I'm not a defender because I don't follow the NRA mantra hook, line, and sinker? Or, is it because I don't forward all of the paranoid gun rights emails to this board and others without stopping to think a little first? Or, is it because some of us have the audacity to think for ourselves and call BS when it is BS?


None of this means anything. I for one don't need the NRA, or the "fear-mongers" to tell me anything. I simply look at the record of the people in power right now. I look at what they've said, written, supported, and suggested. This is enough evidence for me to not trust them ONE BIT when it comes to firearms.

You are aware of who our president is? Who the attorney general is? You are aware of the plethora of anti-gun congress persons currently in office? You are aware of their track record when it comes to firearm related legislation aren't you? You are aware of the things they have said, suggested, and supported when it comes to anti-gun legislation?

Do you think their just going to let it all go now that their in a position to actually accomplish what they've been suggesting for years?

OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

These people don't want YOU to have a working firearm in your home, PERIOD! And their apparently smarter than you about it. They KNOW they cant obtain it all in one foul swoop. They KNOW they have to systematically and methodically chip away at it piece by piece lest YOU get "paranoid" or "suspicious" of their activities and blow the whistle.

They know its not going to happen overnight. They know its not going to happen all in one presidential term. Apparently you don't see this. They are fully planning for the "long-term". Maybe you should be too?


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> That's hard to believe since your already wrong and still in denial.


Please explain how I have been wrong, and on what exactly? What have I ever said in regards to this issue that has been wrong or innaccurate up to this point? Was there some sweeping gun control legislation passed recently that I'm not aware of?

I've always acknowledged that Obama is pro gun control. I've said that he (or others) might _try_ to legislate some forms of gun control. Where our opinions differ is that I've predicted they won't be able to. IMO gun control will not happen at this point in time. I just don't see it taking place in his first term, we have too much political capital. To be honest, if he has a second term and I was forced to guess today...I'd say it most likely wouldn't happen then either...

...But of course things can change quickly in politics, so that's an assertion I wouldn't make. We're all just armchair political anyalysts here, so of course I could be wrong. I just hope your not narcissistic enought to realize that so could you.


Plainsman said:


> As a matter of fact if you didn't get caught off guard you wouldn't be complaining, and somehow that's our fault. No matter the reason, real or unreal I knew it was going to happen. No matter if it was Obama directly, or gun owners afraid of Obama it was going to happen either way. If you didn't understand that ----- well look in the mirror to see who's fault it is if you can't find what you want. The reason matters little at this point.


Great logic there. You must have had a crystal ball predicting something like this was going to happen stemming from "unreal reasons." Maybe that is where we differ. I don't consider irrational fear a justifiable reason under any circumstance.

For the record the only thing I'm complaining about is that you're blaming the wrong people for causing this. I'm not worried about the ammo shortage. I'm confident I'll be out hunting next fall just like everyone else.

What does upset me, is the possibility that there's a law abiding citizen in this country who's never owned a gun before, who might need one for self-protection---or hell, just for fun---and he might not be able to get ammo for it right now. When there is absolutely no reason he shouldn't be able to.

It bothers me that this doesn't phase you and your attitude is "Screw you...You should have been prepared." I believe any law abiding citizen should have access to a firearm and ammunition whenever the hell they want it. Apparently you don't.

Frankly, your attitude of "I have mine" reminds me of a kid on a playground taking his ball and going home. Pretty childish.


> I blame liberal gun grabbers.


Yeah, this is totally their fault. If those damn liberal gun grabbers hadn't started confiscating people's guns there wouldn't be an ammo shortage now. Again, excellent logic. Bravo.

You know, with all this paranoia going on---I'd really wish that a bunch of these liberal gun grabbers would get together and write a pointed letter to this adminstration telling them to shove it when it comes to gun control---I think that might really help rational individuals, like yourself, calm their concerns and put some of this to rest. :roll: 


Plainsman said:


> It would only paranoid if we are wrong.


You might actually be wrong. You're aware that is a distinct possibility right? Until something is passed, you aren't right. Which is why I can't figure out why my opinion upsets you so much. Usually people like a little optimism.


Plainsman said:


> I like to be on the safe side. I look at Obama's history, I look at all the bills that are on the agenda, and they are not good.


*Name one.* I can't believe it took me this long to realize you have no idea what you're talking about.

The ONLY thing I can think of that would even come close, would be H.R.45. The Blair Holt licensing and record act of 2009 sponsored by Bobby Rush (D-IL). This bill has absolutely *ZERO* chance of ever being passed and shouldn't cause any concern.

This is bill was introduced on January 6 and in the 3 months since it was introduced IT HAS FAILED TO EVEN GET A CO-SPONSOR!!! I thought this congress was full of gun-grabbing-lefties? Yet Rush can't find a single one. Hmmm.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Guys people who do not understand the threat to the 2nd Amendment will not be swayed by anything they read, or posts etc.. until it happens. Then it will be to late.

I for one am not stock piling but have an adequate amount of ammo for a few years of hunting and practice. I am guess I did my stock piling well before by taking advantage of good deals especially with the way prices where going up in the past.

However, one thing did come to mind for me in that if legislation is passed that requires a tag of some sort on ammo, my first thought was it most likely will have a felony penalty to posses or use ammo not tagged. Given that, stock piles are now a liability, and I do not want to deal with a felony issue and firearms now or in the future.

I had a brother in-law that was a bit paranoid in regards to ammo. When he passed and then later my sister we cleaned out a bunch of it that was not safe or fit to shoot from corrosion. He had attempted to store it properly but it did go bad.

Now if people are laying in supplies on the idea that we are heading into a revolution, that I think is not out of the realm of things to come.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

4CurlRedleg said:


> No offense but you and jones are no defenders of the 2nd amendment, as a matter of fact you are the people our beloved govt. is counting on.


Sorry that I'm not following all of you chicken little's waiting for the sky to fall.

And you know what, offense taken...go screw yourself for thinking you know me and for having the balls to say that I'm not a defender of the second amendment.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Matt Jones said:


> 4CurlRedleg said:
> 
> 
> > No offense but you and jones are no defenders of the 2nd amendment, as a matter of fact you are the people our beloved govt. is counting on.
> ...


And sorry for not buying into your "everything's hunky dory in la la land" mentality. :eyeroll:


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Matt Jones said:


> And you know what, offense taken...go screw yourself for thinking you know me and for having the balls to say that I'm not a defender of the second amendment.


I know enough of you that you are weak and will be one of the first to fall. Fact. Citizens easily appeased by their govt and are very easy to tip over.

Watch out jones, your age and IQ are showing.

Bigdaddy, you darn right I'm paranoid. I am free and will defend it without prejudice. Whichever govt. we have left or right, dictates my paranoia level but my guard never goes down. I am a man of principle and will never subscribe to the anything goes mentality. The path of weak humans.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Calling people paranoid is simply name calling because the data is all against you. I don't have any huge stockpiles, and I didn't just start laying up supplies. I have always had enough to shoot a couple of years. About the only thing I have done as of late is get some moulding equipment for my old firearms. Last fall instead of long range I shot my 1886 45/70. Like others I don't want to get caught with anything illegal. I also don't want to give the government my guns. I have already sold a couple. I will sell a couple more. I do not want to know the persons name I sell them to. Cash, don't tell me who you are. 
As for those people who have been building supplies kudos. Your doing the right thing. Don't let the young and foolish shame you by calling you paranoid. The prudent man always foresees his future whatever that may be, and then there are those who walk around with their head in the clouds and wouldn't see a freight train until it hit them. Some are young and have been coddled, others have drank deep from the cool-aid well. Ignore them and be happy with your own foresight. They may tell you they are thinking of others, but that's bs. The truth is the are jealous your ready. They can't stand it that we don't except their messiah, or even trust him. 
We may as well let this one slide guys. They will never understand. They can join Obama's new security force, but they will find nothing illegal in my home. When it looks like the government is going to stick their nose into private firearms sales mine are gone. I doubt they will want my Hawken. I hope the guys that buy mine bury them deep. We may be good for 20 years, maybe only two, I have no idea, but we are constantly being pushed towards more and more gun control. I pay attention so that I am not caught off guard.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

barebackjack said:


> BigDaddy said:
> 
> 
> > For those of you that are so convinced that Obama wants your guns and the big bad feds are going to come knocking on your door, let me ask you something. Five or ten years from now when you still have your weapons and your ammo, are you going to post back on this page that you were wrong?
> ...


Very well stated, Jack... :beer:


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

> TRIED to price the average person out of firearms and firearm related items.


Hmm... So some liberals TRIED to do a few things, or they may try to do some things. However, who was SUCCESSFUL in pricing the average person out of firearms and firearm related items? Was it the liberals? You guys helped advance the attack and you don't even acknowledge it.

However, as others have stated, most people have their minds made up. You can't convince some people.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

*"Sadly, the stockpilers are driving up prices" *

Untrue...

Don't know if you've bought any components or ammo latele Big Daddy, but I have. In the last 4 weeks I purchased components and/or ammo in DL, GF, and Bismarck. The truth is the prices have not gone up astronomically, if at all.

The only ammo I paid $50 a box for was for my 257 Wby, and it always costs around $65 a box. Bought 17HMR yesterday for the same price I paid last October. Bought powder yesterday and the price was the same as last year, as well.

The biggest current problem is availability of primers and 223 brass/ammo...


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

BigDaddy said:


> > TRIED to price the average person out of firearms and firearm related items.
> 
> 
> Hmm... So some liberals TRIED to do a few things, or they may try to do some things. However, who was SUCCESSFUL in pricing the average person out of firearms and firearm related items? Was it the liberals? You guys helped advance the attack and you don't even acknowledge it.


So its been a bit difficult to find SOME items the last few months. That will subside. However, a govt initiative, bill, or BAN will not subside in a few months.

Must be nice to walk around in the dark oblivious to the current political climate and whats going on in the country. :eyeroll:

I volunteer bigdaddy and Matt to give up their firearms first if/when the day comes.

What do you think about the thankfully failed DOD plan of destroying all surplus military brass? I wonder whos idea that was? I wonder what the outcome of that would have been? Perhaps making it more difficult to procure popular caliber brass and drive up the price of first run manufactured brass? Perhaps?



NDTerminator said:


> The biggest current problem is availability of primers and 223 brass/ammo...


And thats military related. Not civilian stockpiling.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> What do you think about the thankfully failed DOD plan of destroying all surplus military brass? I wonder whos idea that was? I wonder what the outcome of that would have been?


The current reality is it was reversed because of guys like NDTerminator and BBJ. If not for people like that the brass would all be on it's way to China. Did you (either BigDaddy or Matt) call your representative or the NRA? I did. They didn't tell me it wasn't true, and they didn't tell me I was paranoid either.


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## 2Socks (Apr 18, 2006)

Morons, while you are buying guns and ammo for way too much,,, I am buying your 401 k at discount and making tons of money. Buy gold you fools ,, survival of the strongest.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

2Socks said:


> Morons, while you are buying guns and ammo for way too much,,, I am buying your 401 k at discount and making tons of money. Buy gold you fools ,, survival of the strongest.


Money dont mean jack if you cant protect it. Go ahead and make your money, Pelobamareid will get it in the end. :eyeroll:

Recommend "boot" for 2Socks.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Most people who have seen my posts on here know that I am no right winged conspiracy nut. I voted for Obama, I now regret it. I have re-joined the NRA after swearing up and down that I never would have anything to do with them again. I am more convinced now than I have ever been that hardcore liberals are after guns and ammo. Case in point is tonight's episode of 20/20, the icing on the cake is Diane Sawyer's gun violence epedimic in our country comments. Pair that with the fact that every super liberal in America is blaming America for Mexico's problems. These neo-libs would probably also blame America for Mexico's crappy water.



> The ONLY thing I can think of that would even come close, would be H.R.45. The Blair Holt licensing and record act of 2009 sponsored by Bobby Rush (D-IL). This bill has absolutely ZERO chance of ever being passed and shouldn't cause any concern.


The fact that this bill was even introduced concerns me. The fact that a legislator has the audacity to introduce this type of bill concerns me. The bill was a piece of garbage and didn't even get a co-sponsor. This type of legislation should be a wake up call to all fence riding gun owners. Jones and Big Daddy, I was in your same shoes a while ago but if you look at the current media attention given to guns and the inner city attitude toward guns it is not a pretty sight. Look at what happened in Oakland, people actually marched in support of a cop killer. This type of behavior, paired with a troubled economy is not good for gun owners.

I am not hoarding ammo but I am concerned. The more bills that test the waters, the more falsified biased junk the media puts out, and the more mass shootings that occur in our country the closer we get to more restrictive gun and ammo laws.

I am not saying that anyone is not standing up for the 2nd amendment, but everyone needs to be louder and smarter than ever. Give an inch they will take a mile, that is the super liberal way.

Part 2 of our "gun epedemic" will be on next friday's 20/20


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

TK33 said:


> Most people who have seen my posts on here know that I am no right winged conspiracy nut. I voted for Obama, I now regret it. I have re-joined the NRA after swearing up and down that I never would have anything to do with them again.


Welcome to the dark side TK!!! :beer:

We need all the soldiers we can get!


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

barebackjack said:


> 2Socks said:
> 
> 
> > Morons, while you are buying guns and ammo for way too much,,, I am buying your 401 k at discount and making tons of money. Buy gold you fools ,, survival of the strongest.
> ...


 yeah, like a double dose of size 14 :beer:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

2Socks should be a good reason for many of you to open your eyes. Anyone who considers themselves a hunter that acts like this or is a proponent of any gun control on an outdoor site is one to be aware of. If they start looking for people with guns these are the guys who know you.


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## 2Socks (Apr 18, 2006)

ohhhhh Plainsman is after me ..scary. Fact; not a favor of gun control.. I am in favor of reason and not stupidity. You give money to a huge bureacratic right-wing, reactionary and extremist organization. I work to to improve habitat every day! Don't come to an intellectual gun fight with your little knife of a brain Plainbrain.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

bearhunter said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > [quote="
> ...


 i take that back a size 18 would fit better


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Good Bye 2socks. :lol:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

2Socks said:


> ohhhhh Plainsman is after me ..scary. Fact; not a favor of gun control.. I am in favor of reason and not stupidity. You give money to a huge bureacratic right-wing, reactionary and extremist organization. I work to to improve habitat every day! Don't come to an intellectual gun fight with your little knife of a brain Plainbrain.


I don't think that you have ever had an intellectual fight.

You continue your childish remarks but yet you offer no ideas of your own. You work on habitat everyday, so do many on this site, when you are done patting yourself on the back or wherever why don't you offer up some of your vast knowledge on gun control.

I can't wait.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> Don't come to an intellectual gun fight with your little knife of a brain Plainbrain.


Good God, when did small children start posting in this site? That is about the most childish statement I have seen on here.

2socks, you call yourself a professional, if so, I officially withdraw myself from the ranks of professionals.

Plainsman has most likely forgotten more than you will ever know.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

2Socks said:


> I am in favor of reason and not stupidity.


Well than practice what you preach. So far all you've shown us is stupidity.


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

barebackjack said:


> 2Socks said:
> 
> 
> > Morons, while you are buying guns and ammo for way too much,,, I am buying your 401 k at discount and making tons of money. Buy gold you fools ,, survival of the strongest.
> ...


I second that motion. If i wanted to read his garbage i would go to the DU website.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Gone is one called 2socks.

Mannlicher used the word "prudent" earlier in this thread. That describes many who can see what is on the horizon for the 2nd amendment. You will see a heavy dose of gun violence on the news from here on out and Obama and his minions will play against the us in ways that could not be foretold. Fact.


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

I dont know if there has been an increase in shootings or if the media is just giving it more coverage but this is what they will use to justify gun control.

It is just a crazy time for this country right now and i can not see it getting better anytime soon. To me it seems like all hell is about to break loose and things will get much worse.

I though Obama was going to give us hope and change? Seems like things have gone down hill since Jan 20th to me. How long till people start pulling the Obama bumper stickers off?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Gone is one called 2socks.


     

A guy sort of gets mixed feelings about guys like that. If he was what he said he was I'll jump over the moon.

A guy sort of gets mixed feelings about guys like that. On one hand they get everyone ticked off, but on the other hand the showcase our biggest problem, and that's our own who fail to see what reality is. If he really was a fellow sportsman. I doubt it.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Slightly off topic, but I want to thank Plainsman, BBJ, TK, 4Curl, for their civil manner & valuable input in our give & takes here. Even Matt & BD... We don't always agree but we can hash stuff out without getting into hardcore back biting. :beer:

Too bad our elected officials don't check in here & take some notes on civil discourse...

Hope 2 socks is gone for good. I PM'ed Chris about him a week or so ago. If you look at his posts, he's a classic troll only here to insult folks and try to get a rise. :eyeroll:

I've said it before, but there's an Abnormal Psych thesis waiting to be written on internet nutballs of his ilk...


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

NDTerminator said:


> I've said it before, but there's an Abnormal Psych thesis waiting to be written on internet nutballs of his ilk...


I can only guess that he in in his mid 40s, morbidly obese, dreams of one day talking to a girl and likes to insult people from the safty of his mothers basement.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> I can only guess that he in in his mid 40s, morbidly obese, dreams of one day talking to a girl and likes to insult people from the safty of his mothers basement.


That is some funny....stuff right there!!!! :beer:

I may be way off base here but I don't think the media is under it's own control. I am guessing those doing most of the reporting are owned/controlled by those that want our guns. They have an agenda and use all the tools at their disposal to accomplish their goals. It isn't purely for the "newsworthiness" of a story. Sounds a lot like propaganda stuff you see in the WWII era.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

laite319 said:


> > I can only guess that he in in his mid 40s, morbidly obese, dreams of one day talking to a girl and likes to insult people from the safty of his mothers basement.
> 
> 
> That is some funny....stuff right there!!!! :beer:
> ...


I work for the media. The only person controlling what I do at work is me (well, and my editor....) I'm a human being, not a robot. I will admit, however, that I work with a lot of liberal folk. Does that mean they put an obtuse amount of left-wing bias into their work? I hope not. The focus of the media is to be objective (of course, if you're writing an editorial, that's a different story...)

But in reality, human nature deems it nearly impossible to be completely objective about a subject. One's subconscious will undoubteldy lean one way or another on a given topic, especially if it hits close to home, so to speak. But I degress...

As far as gun control and the media, I see a vast gray area. The squeeky wheel gets the grease, eh? When a proponent for gun control speaks up after a mass shooting, of course that becomes headline news. It's loud, it's bloody, it gets papers to sell (I'm having de ja vu from Comm 101!) One could argue that we only print what the public wants (think gladiator times in the colloseum). Some also argue that we simply feed the beast: by publishing an article about some lunatic we are planting the seeds of action. If not for us, maybe Colombine never would have happened....

Personally, I believe in self control and personal choice. Some nut job shoots up a church before killing himself. Is that my fault? Is that your fault? Is that his parents' fault? Blame it on the gun makers! Blame the schools! Blame the church!....DOWN WITH MTV!!!

I say BS to all that. It was his fault. His choice.

Am I rambling? I believe so. A tall Rogue Nut Brown ale will do that to a person... :beer:

In short, I've enjoyed this topic. Many valid points and counterpoints. Kudos.

P.S. Buy a local paper in the morning...you may save some poor guy's job. :wink:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Duckslayer100, if you were representative of the media there would be no problem. The national big boys way beyond your experience are bias, and they are taking part in trying to destroy private gun ownership. They are political biased, second amendment biased, and have little to no objectivity. The big papers deserve to die. The sooner the better.

There is a reason that FOX news is now top dog.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I noticed today that the shelves are darn empty. I talked to the guy in sporting goods at Wal Mart and he said they have not had an ammo shipment for a long time. 
Here is something I thought about today. I don't see a lot of people stockpiling like some think. I wonder if the manufacturers are holding back anticipating new laws that may leave them holding the bag with millions of dollars of ammo they can not sell? Thoughts.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Plainsman said:


> Duckslayer100, if you were representative of the media there would be no problem. The national big boys way beyond your experience are bias, and they are taking part in trying to destroy private gun ownership. They are political biased, second amendment biased, and have little to no objectivity. The big papers deserve to die. The sooner the better.
> 
> There is a reason that FOX news is now top dog.


 :eyeroll:

It's not hard to be top dog when you are the only "Conservative" show in town, competing for viewership amongst a pool of 3 or 4 other networks who are splitting all the "Liberal" majority amongst them.

Keep repeating that skewed stat Plainsman. :thumb: It worked great for you last election.

For the record... I know tons of liberal voters who don't watch any MSM news programs(or barely any TV _at all_ for that matter) They are actually able to surf the internet and gather their own news thru a variety of sources that have nothing to do with NBC, ABC, CBS or Fox.

You might want to consider that in your analysis of the whole picture for a bit 

Or just keep visiting known Conservative rags and regurgitating their propoganda, and still consider yourself as getting a balanced objective understanding of the way _most_ of the US thinks about things.

Whatever floats your boat.

Take care.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Plainsman said:


> I noticed today that the shelves are darn empty. I talked to the guy in sporting goods at Wal Mart and he said they have not had an ammo shipment for a long time.
> Here is something I thought about today. I don't see a lot of people stockpiling like some think. I wonder if the manufacturers are holding back anticipating new laws that may leave them holding the bag with millions of dollars of ammo they can not sell? Thoughts.


I have talked to three different stores and they are all saying that hoarding is the problem and not ammo shortage. Two of the stores were in Fargo and the other Bismarck. They gave me examples of what the mfgrs are saying as far as the production rates go, basically they can't make enough and the problem is machine availability. So that to me seals it, hoarding is the main problem, Obama paranioa is the other problem. I hope it is paranioa anyways.

I did see that Fox news has almost all of the top ratings in their slots. Apparently I am not the only one that supported Obama and is now thinking twice about it. Considering where we were in January this is an interesting bit of info.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Well hoarding will end so that's better than manufacturing cutting back. I knew a few were hoarding, but I thought it was not a common occurrence. I talked with one guy who has 100,000 primers on hand, but he has not purchased any since last May. He said he built his component supply over a ten year period. 
I don't know how to keep powder a long time. Mine is at 65 degrees and dry, but it gets that acrid smell even in closed containers. Most of mine gets used quickly, but I bought two cases about ten years ago. All different powders. I just wanted to experiment with loads.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

R y a n said:


> [
> Keep repeating that skewed stat Plainsman. :thumb: It worked great for you last election.
> 
> For the record... I know tons of liberal voters
> ...


And a shot fired across the bow....... :sniper:

There for awhile I gave you up for dead with 97% of the site members really enjoy giving you a beat down. But not me, I enjoy your adolescent banter. Makes me feel like a top 10 percenter genius. 8)


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> They are actually able to surf the internet and gather their own news thru a variety of sources that have nothing to do with NBC, ABC, CBS or Fox.
> 
> You might want to consider that in your analysis of the whole picture for a bit
> 
> Or just keep visiting known Conservative rags and regurgitating their propoganda, and still consider yourself as getting a balanced objective understanding of the way most of the US thinks about things.


I don't get it. If he gets his info from a "conservative" viewpoint it is worthless and just propaganda, but if he gets the info from "liberal" skewed news it is balanced and objective? How does that work? The lean is going to depend on what that company wants you to hear. It is nearly impossible to sift through all the BS in the news these days and find the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Pretty sad if you ask me.


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

Talking to people from around the country and they say that the hoarding is slowing down and ammo is slowly making its way to the shelves. Not here, but the panic was late getting here so it will be late leaving.

Now if we could get all the crazy doom and gloom people to stop crying about how ammo is going to be $200 a box we might get things back to normal.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Now if we could get all the crazy doom and gloom people to stop crying about how ammo is going to be $200 a box we might get things back to normal.


$200 Wow that would be bad. I had heard predictions of $60 being possible for common calibers. I don't think it will get to bad, unless the liberals get a high tax on ammo. I don't think they will pull of Kennedy's wish for 1000% or Obama's for 500%, but even a 100% tax would hurt. The way they may get at it is through health care. Remember there are many liberals who say gun violence is a health crisis. A big part of tobacco cost is taxes. It could be the same for ammo.

There is little doubt price will go up. The ammo manufacturers will need to build a war chest just to fend of legal problems ahead. The battle has just begun and it's going to cost us all to maintain our rights under the second amendment. That's not crazy and it's not radical it's simply the truth. I would think everyone would see the political gun pointed square between our eyes.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Can we push for a huge tax on fat food places then also? Heart disease and stroke are part of the health crisis also, but you don't see 500% tax on the big mac.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

R y a n said:


> For the record... I know tons of liberal voters who don't watch any MSM news programs(or barely any TV _at all_ for that matter) They are actually able to surf the internet and gather their own news thru a variety of sources that have nothing to do with NBC, ABC, CBS or Fox.


News flash Ryan, we hicks in ND have internet access also. uke:


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## wish2hunt (Apr 3, 2009)

Plainsman said:


> Well hoarding will end so that's better than manufacturing cutting back.


I was speaking with my uncle, who owns a gun store out in Billings. He said its not so much a manufacturer cutback, hoarding problem by the average consumer or even the sporting good stores. Its the fact that the government purchased some 3 billion (or was it 3 trillion) primers. Its step one of many steps to systematic gun control.


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

well there is another internet rumor about some gov plan to take guns away by buying up all the primers. I can tell you where the primers are, go look on gunbroker.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Well I forgot to get enough to hoard, so I don't got no ammo.

Hey plainsman, can I have some of yours? That is after all the liberal way. Take from those who have and give it to those who don't. 8)

huntin1


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

huntin1 said:


> Well I forgot to get enough to hoard, so I don't got no ammo.
> 
> Hey plainsman, can I have some of yours? That is after all the liberal way. Take from those who have and give it to those who don't. 8)
> 
> huntin1


 Well after all it would only be fair for him to share it with us, he has no right to have all that ammo when we hardly have any. :wink:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I wish. I have enough primers for this year. I have enough powder, if I don't load magnum rounds. I'm going to have to get some more R22 if I can find it. If I have to start loading some of those faster powders I have kicking around I'm going to be shooting some anemic loads. 
My old guns I can cast bullets for. If I have to I can make black powder for my old 45/70. I wonder if there are any black powder loads for 44 mag?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

huntin1 said:


> Well I forgot to get enough to hoard, so I don't got no ammo.
> 
> Hey plainsman, can I have some of yours? That is after all the liberal way. Take from those who have and give it to those who don't. 8)
> 
> huntin1


 :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

BTW, anyone here, Lib or Con, have ANY  doubt that we'll see a massive tax increase on ammo & firearms on Obamarama's watch?

I didn't think so...


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## Mcloving (May 5, 2009)

I am new to this site and this is my first post. 
Folks here in southern WI hate this all and are ******.
But I am really scared, first no ammo and and now the pig flu. I know where it came from and why. I agree taxes are coming on ammo and guns, then will ban all semi-autos. Don't say I didn't say so, I love N DAk you folks are so nice I hunt with Spoony around Zeeland any you guys no him?


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

NDTerminator said:


> BTW, anyone here, Lib or Con, have ANY  doubt that we'll see a massive tax increase on ammo & firearms on Obamarama's watch?
> 
> I didn't think so...


 I do. Gun control of any kind is not going to fly and they know it. As soon as the morons stop paying the gunbroker prices the profiteers will stop buying every case as soon as it hits the store shelves. there is no ammo shortage, look at Bisman or gunbroker, plenty to go around if you are willing to pay for it.

By the end of summer this will be a thing of the past. People will realize they really dont need 10 thousand rounds of ammo and it will be over.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The latest news from ILA and Gun Owners of America is the bill that they call the gun show loop hole. That bill will prohibit the transfer of private firearms. The alert I received from Gun Owners of America said that if current language is kept that you would not be able to purchase a gun and give it to your child for Christmas. 
They may not attack the second amendment head on, but they are chipping away at it and coming though the back door with things like the treaty with Mexico. If you don't think it's possible they already have you bent over grasping your ankles.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Of course Obama and a lot of Democrats (and enough Republicans, too) would LOVE to take all of our guns, but I think that Matt is correct when he says that he doubts they would be able to do it right now. 
What the antigunners would love to do and what they seem to realize that they Can't Do are two different things. For the present, anyway... At this point, I think the antis and Obama are simply too busy with other things, and don't want to risk alienating any groups with talk or action of gun control. But this can change in the blink of an eye!
For the moment we are temprarily fairlysafe , anyway. BUT, this only emphasizes that we all have to be concerned about future gun grabs and work together to keep the voting power of gun ownership fresh in the anti's minds. 
I suppose there is a difference between paranoia and genuine guarded concern, and you guys can argue that all year with no concensus.

Time for my commercial - If any of you vocal gun rights guys are NOT members of the NRA or any other Shooting Sports groups of your choice then you'd better get off your buns and sign up! 
I don't agree with everything the NRA or NSSF does or says, but like it or not they are the MOST POWERFULL voice we gun owners have in Washington and at the States level. So now weak excuses, please! 
So pony up to the bar and join SOME pro gun group of your choice and keep letters and e-mails going to our reps. You haven't e-mailed all our reps multiple times??? Well, get on it dang it!! 
Otherwise, don't come on outdoor websties and whine about losing your guns if and when onerous legislation happens because most gun owners are too lazy or too cheap to join pro gun lobbying organizations like the NRA, NSSF and others. 
Life memebership is better, and I know that some of us have life memberships in one or many several of these groups. Well done! But we need EVERYBODY to help the pro gun fight and not simply whine on web sites like I know quite a number of gun owners do. Blows me away when I find out that some of my vocal gun toting buddies who regularly post on web sites do NOT belong to any gun ownership groups! Usually simply too cheap or don't bother! Shame!!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Plainsman is absolutely right with his last post. Likely no big frontal assault coming for a while, but the buggers will keep chipping away at it, which is why we need organizations that represent us to keep an eye out for things that would slip past us on an individual basis. 
This requires MONEY!!! As in memberships!! The more members, the more money and the more clout we have!! Few members and goodbye guns!! Then you'll hear the whining.......
So get with it and JOIN SOME ORGANIZATION of your choice.


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## PJ (Oct 1, 2002)

2Socks said:


> Buy gold you fools ,, survival of the strongest.


Gold is for optimists. Invest in can goods. 8)


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

Scheels in Bismarck had full handgun ammo shelves on Sunday. They also had thousands of small rifle, small pistol, large pistol. They had plenty of everything except large rifle. It was nice to not see bare shelves for once. The primers had gone up 50 cents per 100 though.


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