# Russia and the Ukrain



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm betting the democrats are thrilled if Russia attacks the Ukrain. Biden today said it could affect our economy. Just like WWII saved Rosevelt Biden is hoping he can blame a terrible and worsening economy on Russia and not his economically destructive policies.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

But I thought Republicans were the "war mongers".

I honestly think the administration wants Russia to do something. So then they can sanction them or hold something over the Ukraine. I think they know that when they gave the green light to the Nord 2 pipeline that something would happen in the Ukraine. If people dont think this whole thing is about resources in the Ukraine they are blinded. Russia wants those resources and is using "we dont want them in NATO" as an excuse to do the things they are doing.

Anyways.... I dont think they want a "war" or any type they just want a conflict to take focus off of the crap show in the USA and with what is happening in Canada with the Truckers. They want to seem "tough" on Russia. I honestly think it has to do with what just came out in the Durham report as well. They want to take focus off of that by seeming TOUGH ON RUSSIA.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I think the swamp is willing to go to war with Russia to keep their corruption out of the news.


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

I see several reports on how Russia is sanctioning
their exports......that's funny. Yea that will keep
the money flow coming in. My guess is we 
could care less. 

I see reports now that China is accusing the USA
having Bio Chem Labs with the Ukraine's......that's
funny. I think China had better shut up, remember
Wuhan? They must want us to quit buying from
them. 

I know there is a lot more to this but thought the
News was ironic.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Insane in the Ukraine: Joy Reid and Trevor Noah Think Something is Racist!?! | Louder With Crowder - YouTube 

Now take this video or the commentary with a grain of salt. Steven Crowder is a comedian.

But just look how two people are saying that the war in Ukraine is some how "racist".... or the reporting of it.

This is the problem.... people look for "racist" in every little thing. It is what "sells" according to the news.

BTW... I compare these two to the sports world of Steven A Smith. Just always angry and trying to find things that are wrong.

Norseman.... Correct on all the reporting lies that are floating around with this whole thing going on in the Ukraine.

Here is a little side note/story. This past summer I was fishing in Alaska and staying at the same resort was 8 guys that live in the USA and they were from Ukraine and Russia. Great group of guys. They all live in the Nashville area as of now and getting to know them over the week one spent time around where I am from MN and even SEMN and W Wisconsin. Anyways the Senior of the group was Russian. He would make the joke that Alaska isnt the USA it is Russian. Since the USA bought it from Russia. He would joke and call it his land or his mother land. But then he would get serious and said... THANK GOD THE USA OWNS THIS. Because if Russia still owned it the place would have been ravaged and plundered for all of the natural resources. Be it fish, lumbers, oil, gold, etc. He said it would look like a waste land. It was an eye opener talking with this guy for a week. It shows you how "clean" our energy and mining policies in the USA really are compared to the rest of the world. It shows you how our conservation efforts are so superior to the rest of the world.... etc. Now with all of this going on in the Ukraine and how I stated it is all because of Oil and resources. It really hits home those conversation with that man.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

The Norseman said:


> I see several reports on how Russia is sanctioning
> their exports......that's funny. Yea that will keep
> the money flow coming in. My guess is we
> could care less.
> ...



Actually, I believe the USSR and China about as much as our own LYING government. If you do not believe the USA was operating Bio labs in Ukraine, watch the Tucker reruns from tonight (THursday) and last night. There's your PROOF.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

I watched the Tucker show. Russia puts out the propaganda. China supports it.
Now the ridiculous part...Fox News and Carlson fall for an unproven, dangerous conspiracy theory. 
Russia Loves Tucker.
Russia is setting up its own use of biological weapons. Wake up!


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## The Norseman (Jan 8, 2005)

What I suggest with all these sanctions going on now is,
we need to get the Affluent Russian Families kids out
here…...you know, for their safety and our National Defense.

These Rich Kids I'm sure can be cohorst and threated
to do terrorists acts against the USA here at home and
even aboard.

I think we need to Export all Family members that are
here on visas. I think that only makes sense they are
with their Rich Families and be on the run too.

That would really put another nail in the coffin. This
would pressure the Rich families and put them
at odds against Russia.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Sorry... Tucker provided proof. Our government LIED to us yet again... not that I trust the USSR, but...


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Sasha and Abby said:


> Tucker provided proof


Okay. I remember about a year ago Tucker said he had TOTAL PROOF the election was rigged.
Just be careful if you are approached by a couple guys in ill-fitting suits looking for recruits.  Just Kidding,


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck.... Agreed about the "proof". But we can keep saying that about much of the media.... and elected officials. Remember all the "proof" with Trump... or other stuff. Again this is going at Tucker and at many dems as well. All had "proof" and then.... NOTHING.

The interesting thing about Ukraine is that remember under Trump he wanted investigations into Kerry, Biden (son), etc. 

Then with Ukraine we are hearing Dem's blaming Trump for some stuff there.... not just the impeachment but other things... I am not sure the "rumblings" i have read because it is twitter nonsense. But I will wait and see on this.... again this could be the stuff with Bio Weapons or not.... not sure.

Anyways that is what is crazy thing with Ukraine.... who or what is going on inside the borders with other countries.... be it the weapons, oil, gas, Bio, etc. I think more might be coming out on this. Again right now dont believe anything from anyone because with the invasion everyone is doing PROPAGANDA to make each other look bad and themselves to look good.

I just hope the whole economic stuff getting put on them doesn't create a bigger mess. I agree with doing it. But history is that when economic pressures get too great... WAR happens.... I mean a big war. Look at WW2 and the economic sanctions were put on countries and war broke out. Also that war came right when hard times were hit in countries.... what just happened around the world to countries.... Think about it. History repeats itself when people dont learn from past mistakes.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

WW2 saved Roosevelt's presidency. It worries me with Bidens absolutely horrendous performance that he may drag us into WW3. They should put everyone who voted for him in the front lines. The sad truth is they will sit at home and backstab the conservative boys dying for their freedom.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Chuck, I agree that the media, all media, can be deceptive. This happens when"The Medium is the Message" a concept coined by Marshall McLuhan and introduced in his book Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man, published in Canada in 1964. McLuhan proposes that a medium itself, not the content it carries, should be the focus of scrutiny and study. I never really knew what the concept meant until the last decade or so. These days half the media swings one way and the other half swings the opposite way, and both sides have all the tools to produce all kinds of "fake" news, etc. and it is all designed to make the gullible believe whatever conspiracy theory being floated. I try to look at raw video or listen to peoples words and then try to make up my own mind. I understand that the world is afraid of pushing Putin too far in fear he will push the button and obliterate the NATO countries. I believe that fear in itself is a reason to eliminate the problem somehow. I don't have children and grandchildren whose futures I have to worry about so if we have to fight a lunatic, so be it. I am sick of him pushing innocent people around.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> These days half the media swings one way and the other half swings the opposite way,


 I dislike republicans and woukd not trust them any further than I coukd throw them. I am forced to vote for them because the democrats have no morals. That said I have a minor disagreement with the above quote. I woukd estimate 90% are simply an extention of the democrat party, and the remaining ten percent are mixed republican and conservative.



> I don't have children and grandchildren whose futures I have to worry about so if we have to fight a lunatic, so be it. I am sick of him pushing innocent people around.


I do have children and grandchildren, and I don't want them growing up communist/socialist/ or democrat. All the same I guess. Anyway maybe Putin shoukd worry about us. I don't react well to big mouths like him and may be inclined to beat him to the first punch. He shoukd keep his mouth shut.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> McLuhan proposes that a medium itself, not the content it carries, should be the focus of scrutiny and study. I never really knew what the concept meant until the last decade or so.


So maybe look at FACEBOOK, Twitter, Youtube, etc. How they're actually curbing certain views while letting others flourish??

How that "medium" or "platform" is dictating what gets to people. 

Now I know people will say well FOX NEWS or even CNN... they are different than social media platforms. Because social media platforms use code and algorithms to push certain storys/news. They can put what every they want infront of you or surpress what every they feel without you knowing it. Where as a TV station... .you choice to watch it or not.

I can go onto twitter, facebook, youtube, etc. And want to look up or search a recipe for brisket. Yet in my "feed" they can push something political without me knowing it. I will see it pop up as "current" or something along those lines. It is what I talked about in great depth when talking about section 230.

But now I will have to look up Marshall McLuhan and read up on him. Thank you for introducing that to me.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

WHY?
View attachment 47798


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck... all it went to was the forum page. Was there something else?

If you are asking Why nobody participates anymore...

Here are a few of my thoughts....

How people were treated for "internet scouting".
How people were treated for posting pics.
How people were treated during any nr vs r thing.
Other forums opening up... and just the whole life cycle of forums.
Look at the talks just about Trespassing laws discussions.


I mean it used to be busy as all get out during the spring show migration. People giving reports, showing piles of birds, giving helpful tips to newbies, etc. I gave a whole tutorial on how to paint a snow body into a blue. That got deleted during one of the web changes or purges. Then some people got nasty with anyone asking questions about bird locations, showing piles of birds, etc.

I mean honestly... when was the last time anyone posted pics of birds or kills??? I know Ken (i think) started a thread... but then hardly anyone posted any pics to follow suit.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Ha Ha Sorry about that Chuck. I had posted a cartoon but after posting it I thought it through and decided to delete it because I did not want to stir things up. Plainsman is right, I sometimes like to do that. Maybe it was posts like what I was going to post that may have contributed to the politics (or whatever) that caused people to leave a few years ago and had you wondering if that was what I was getting at.

I posted because Putin is waging war against all of us in the free world. I don't understand why Putin is treated with kid gloves. If we are so afraid that he is unhinged and will use his nuclear arsenal if provoked, then that is a serious problem to have to live with day in and day out. What Tucker and Fox News are doing in support of Russia seems treasonous to this layman. Here is the cartoon I posted with the question WHY? Seriously why?
Check out this cartoon


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

🙂 Is there anyone left that offends easily?🤣 I may not agree with your cartoon Canuck, but I see the humor in it.

Check this Biblical view. Even if your not Christian the perspective may interest you. Be prepared to spend some time.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I am like Plainsman.... I can take a joke and do get the humor in that cartoon. Not a big deal.

Here is something to discuss as well with all of this situation.

Candece Owens is catching heat for her talking about how people who want to kick out of the USA any Russian Oligarchs kids or Oligarchs who are in the USA on visas. Be it an educational visa, work visa, etc. Her comment is that kicking them out is like during WW2 when our nation rounded up Japanese people and put them in camps. It is treating people poorly no matter what their stance is on a situation.

I totally agree with her. We shouldn't be kicking out these people who are here legally. Unless they are shipping guns, ammo, money directly to fund the war.... then NOPE. Even if you can prove they are sending money back to fund the war.... FREEZE THIER ASSEST! Dont have to kick them out. 

What will happen is then we will have to spend money or "apologize" for what we did to them while they were here in the USA.

But this just shows you how some of these people are so blinded....and many of the ones she is getting heat from are DEMOCRATS.

Here is just an example. Lets say if this was an African country that is doing the invasion..... Do the same people (Dems) want to deport, kick out, anyone who is from that African country? I would big money on they wouldn't because it would look "racist". But since it is Russia it seems OK. I hope people understand what I am getting at.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Still watching your long video Plainsman...Chuck I agree this is not the Russian "people's" fault. It is all on Putin. Normal Russians have no idea what is going on. Putin is a madman and Fox News, especially Tucker Carlson lend support to Putin's cause. I am afraid this IS a big deal. One where we might have nine minutes to prepare...


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

New Iran Agreement Would Let Russia Cash in on $10 Billion Contract To Build Nuclear Sites (freebeacon.com) 

WHAT IS GOING ON!!!!!!

People wake up... do you think this might have something to also do with Ukraine invasion???

If you are scared about Putin's finger on the trigger..... Think about letting Iran have nukes.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Chuck,
This morning I listened to an interview with Republican Adam Kinsinger (sp?). I very much agreed with what he was saying about the fighting in Ukraine and the need for a no-fly zone over the Ukraine and that Ukraine has every right to protect itself and its airspace. Kinsinger stated that the US needs to talk tougher and lay down a clearly defined line in the sand around any use of nukes, chemical or biological weapons. The Russians need to know there will be a bigger price to pay if they escalate the war. You folks probably don't care for Kinsinger or what he has to say based on his position on Trump but I agree with him that the US and NATO are doing nothing to deter Putin and everything to deter themselves from entering the fray and doing what is right. Kinsinger is a soldier.
Now throw Iran into the mix and it gets even more serious.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Just to add to my previous comments...I know nothing about aerial cobat capabilities or any of that important stuff that is used to make military decisions.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I totally agree with what Kinsinger stated. The USA and NATO allies need to make the no fly zone. 

Here is the problem... Biden is looking like a stooge. Especially when he undone some of the sanctions Trump put in place on Russia. Then now working with Iran on a Nuke deal. All of this plays right into russias hands. That is why I think he isn't moving more forward with all of this as of yet. He is doing too many deals with Russia or deals that Russia has its fingers in. I wont even bring up how now the NYT's is finally admitting they were wrong about the Hunter Laptop.... and again how social media helped burry that story....ie: banned people who talked about it. But more might come out in due time on that. OR could be a dud... only time will tell. It might also give some insight on why Biden is doing certain things now....during this conflict.



Canuck said:


> You folks probably don't care for Kinsinger or what he has to say based on his position on Trump


See that is the problem. You are assuming things just based on some of the stuff we agreed on what Trump did. That is the problem with our political spectrum. People dont want to acknowledge anything good the other side did or things they possible disagree with. Trump said many stupid things. I commented on them. I commented on how he is egotistical and that got in his way too much. But anyways.... 


The deal with the nukes, chemical, and biological weapons is there is strict rules against those being used already out there. It is just a matter if people follow them or not. I cant remember what the actual agreement was but after WW2 the "big" countries signed agreements on Nukes. Also after WW1 there was about chemical weapons as well. Hence why we didnt see much chemical weapons used in WW2 as they were used in WW1. Example....mustard gas.

That is why giving or letting nukes get to the smaller countries that didn't sign that agreement is crazy....ie: Iran, NK, etc. Remember who brought back chemical weapons during conflicts.... Sadam and others during the Iran/Iraq conflict.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Chuck Smith said:


> See that is the problem. You are assuming things just based on some of the stuff we agreed on what Trump did. That is the problem with our political spectrum. People dont want to acknowledge anything good the other side did



I made my comment based on Kinsinger stating today that Trump had been a terrible President and he (Kinsinger) would do anything he can to prevent Trump from becoming President again. He stated that if Trump was still President the USA would be out of NATO and that Putin would be free to walk right over the Ukraine and into NATO member countries. Maybe not needing USA support and approval would free up countries that want to send troops and equipment to the "invasion". The media calls it a "war" which sounds like two countries mutually fighting over something. What is happening in the Ukraine is an invasion and an attack on innocent people. Anyway I apologize for assuming you would disagree with Kinsinger based on his stance on Trump.

Even Trump doesn't talk about the good stuff he did...like vaccines!?!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I'm not sure what I think of a no fly zone. Stingers essentially creat a no fly zone.
Another thing that bothers me is everyone looking to us for help, every time. War or natural disaster they expect it from us. We may have more money, but we have a 30% longer work week than European countries too. Also Trump made countries start paying more as members of NATO. I think he called it their fair sare. but it isn't. We pay the lions share of the budget for Nato, and the United Nation that more often works against us. 
As far as the no fly zone right now everyone wants us to impose it, but if Putin drops a nuke these same countries will become backstabbing and blame us. Stingers and Javalins are one thing, but Americans in aircraft are taking active part in a war.
With Bidens kid, Pelosi kid, Kerry's kid, and Romneys kid involved in Ukraine corruption I am hesitant about to much help. Our generals retire then work for military contractors. War is becoming to much of our economy, and a big part of our corruption. How many of our politicians are using the Ukraine as a money laundering scheme? The Biden crime family is, and Romney makes me think its non partisan.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck said:


> Even Trump doesn't talk about the good stuff he did...like vaccines!?!


HE DID.... He said he wanted credit for implementing or streamlining the process to get the vaccines to the people. He also always said... GET THE VACCINE IF YOU CHOOSE TOO. He never told anyone not to get the shot. He said it was a personal choice and get it if you choose too. The media lied to everyone saying he was anti vax. Then when he talked about it they went nuts. 

The media likes to lie to the public very much so the past few years. Hopefully people are finally opening their eyes on this. But I doubt it..... hint hint.... Russia Dossier and now with the Biden Laptop. Look how the media lied about both of those....and all the RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA stuff.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

(2) Benny on Twitter: "British reporters ROAST unstable Pelosi LIVE on air— the world is LITERALLY laughing at us https://t.co/qoNaHrHuTm" / Twitter

This is a clip of reporters in another country. Now some of them in the UK and other countries also spread lies about Trump when he was in office.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

A group of aboriginal investors are buying the TransMountain Pipeline to the west coast. I have heard their group may also be building a refinery to send oil west to China and other customers. Seems counterintuitive that North America doesn't have a plan for the north/south sale of oil and oil products. It is okay because Canada will get a better price from China than the USA if history is any guide.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck.... THAT IS 100% ACCURATE!!

Look how some hollywood elite send Bank of Canada (or something like that) a "letter" telling them not to fund a pipeline in British Colombia.

Now I did read that the pipeline is trying to gain support from a tribe but is having a hard time because it is going thru some lands. Again who isn't supporting it. The actual tribe or people who dont live on the land.... like much of the Dakota Pipeline fiasco.


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Plainsman you may be right about the Stingers eliminating the need for a No-Fly-Zone but here is why Putin is going to intensify the air attack with the slow down of his ground support. I see he wears a crucifix...


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## Canuck (Nov 10, 2004)

Chuck the TransMountain pipeline was built in the early 1950's and was expanded a few times. Kinder Morgan bought it in the early 80's and sold it (walked away from) it to the Gov't of Canada due to huge opposition to it's expansion. Trudeau wants to sell (give) it to aboriginal investor groups along the pipeline route. That movement has grown lead by a band out of Alberta to the point that almost everyone (Indian Bands) is on board along the proposed route. Proposed route is a joke because it is being built in an existing corridor. The greens go ape **** about a nice safe pipeline when what they should be worrying about is all the increased tanker traffic. Anyway I am enthused by the investment by aboriginal groups and the support for oil and gas development that support brings. Seriously the history between Canada and the USA when it comes to resource development is piss poor. Canada has been weak in their negotiations with the USA. Very weak..


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I didnt like it in the 1950s when our farmers sold wheat to Russia. I dont like our farmers selling soy beans to China. I dont like supporting the enemy. China is much more of a threat than Russia.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I am confused on the recent democrate disrespect for Russia since Russia is what liberals for years want America to be.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

This is an EXCELLENT and civil discussion. 

FWIW - I would not be surprised that the resistance to the USA entering the "war" is not tied to foreign (read: Chinese/Ukraine/ Soviet) governments having blackmail on the Bidens that goes very deep and DIRECTLY connects "The BIg Guy" to much more graft and corruption than we could possibly imagine. It is well known that Hunter nevereven used burner phones when he was in Russia/China/USSR ... I am confident that every text/email/phone conversation/location was being monitored. They know where all the dirty laundry is and where the bodies are buried... KNO' DAT !!!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Canuck....

Thanks for the insight on that pipeline issue. It shows you how out of touch those Hollywood Elite are. They just want to jump on the band wagon...and think they are doing it at a time of record high gas prices and inflation. Just shows you how out of touch they really are.

So to sum it all up about that pipeline that I posted about.... The native people are on board with maybe a few "fringe" groups. So those "fringe" groups tap the USA idiots AKA: Hollywood elites to try and get it shut down. When in fact it really isn't going to "disturb" too much new ground and go along an old route. Again... thanks for the info. See it shows how our media is corrupt and not telling the Truth. 

The thing that most of our countries citizens (USA and CANADA) dont understand or know is that the energy we produce is the cleanest in the world or more eco friendly. Look at how mines and drill sights have to be "reclaimed" or have to meet certain environmental regulations even before they can pump or mine a single natural resource. Look how refineries and other things need to either be "clean" or have to in another area be eco friendly and what not. Now the "buying" of credits isn't as bad as it was in the 70's and 80's but most now are cleaner or meet regs so they dont have to "buy" credits or credits are not available like they used to be. Anyways it is the most cleanest in the world the stuff produced in North America when you compare it to other countries.


Sasha and Abby....

I agree with you 100% about there might be some skeletons in the closet that might be buried in the Ukraine that political leaders dont want dug up. This could be for alot of people not specifically just the "big guy".


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

How Biden Raised Gas Prices Without Anyone Noticing (msn.com) 

good article that shows you why gas prices are going up. It isn't just because of "russia"....


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