# how to teach my lab to stay



## ducker (Dec 14, 2005)

whenever i tell my 5 month old lab to "stay" he will sit when i am right next to him but when i start walking away he just walks away with me


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

Why are you teaching stay?

Sit means sit until told otherwise. If you have to teach stay, then you did not teach sit. First teach sit, then enforce it.

Hydro - who swats them on the rear with a healing stick or crop for getting up after being told sit.


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## fishunt (Jan 24, 2004)

Ask Bob and he might help u information


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## Dusty05 (Aug 21, 2005)

Some advice I got from this site worked great. Whenever I take my pup outside to do her business, I make her sit and stay, but I use "whoa" instead of stay. I make her stay at the door while I go through it first and then I tell her to come. When I go back inside I make her whoa at the door while I go through it and then tell her to come. I did this for a few days in a row every time and now she will stay put until I tell her to move.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Hydro is correct, sit should mean "until I release or command you otherwise". I also teach "stay", as it's useful as a general reinforcing command, particularly when hunting. I train all OB as not just voice commands but also silent hand signals, again very useful when hunting.

By 5 months old, hopefully the "no" command should be well ingrained as "stop what you're doing immediately", and many trainers (myself included) find it useful when the dog performs a task incorrectly. I use a different (softer but more abrupt, sort of comes out "Nup"!...) voice inflection when I use "no" in this context, as opposed to a situation where the dog is misbeaving or may endanger itself (this comes out from "No" to 'NOOOOO, you &%#$*&"! depending on the situation...  ). The result should be the same; the dog stops what it's doing so fast it leaves skid marks. You then make your correction.

This will come in time. Remember your pup has spent the last several months bonding to you, so up till now staying at your side was what it's supposed to do. Be patient, and work at it in baby steps.

You didn't say if you are using a program. If not, you should be. I recommend Evan Graham's Smartwork For Retrievers, augmented by John & Amy Dahl's 10 Minute Retriever. You should get 10MR ASAP and read it cover to cover now. It's one of the top methods to train your pup through the first 6-8 months.

I suspect Dusty might have a pointer or spaniel of some sort, as the "whoa" command is very rarely taught/used with retrievers...


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## Dusty05 (Aug 21, 2005)

Yeah I have a brittany spaniel, but to me whoa means the same as stay whether it is a retriever, spaniel or airplane. Is there a reason why that is usually not used in retrievers?


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I'm not very familiar with pointer training but I believe the "whoa" command is used in reinforcing an honor, which of course isn't an issue with a flushing retriever like a lab. I'm sure the pointer guys will clarify this if I'm not accurate.

Really doesn't matter what word a person uses for a command, as long as you & your dog are on the same page. Some, such as sending a dog on a mark by it's name, sending it on a blind with "back", and so on, are fairly universal in meaning when working with retrievers...


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> I'm not very familiar with pointer training but I believe the "whoa" command is used in reinforcing an honor, which of course isn't an issue with a flushing retriever like a lab. I'm sure the pointer guys will clarify this if I'm not accurate


Well yes and no, teaching whoa to all dogs even non hunting dogs is extremely useful.

Whoa can be used with pointers as descibed for reinforcing steadiness or honoring but I think its most useful reason is stopping any breed dog, no matter what, around traffic or whatever danger may be in the vicinity.
( I know sit can accomplish the same thing but read on there is other benfits)

The other real good reason to train retrievers and spaniels to whoa and that is to be able to hunt with pointer owning friends and enjoy the benefits of both types of dogs. The reality is that no matter how good our pointers are labs and spaniels will out retrieve them on average and you will lose fewer cripples.

Down here its common practice for nonslip spaniels and labs to be used in conjunction with pointers of various breeds ( a pointer is a pointer first a retriever sometimes :lol: ) relieveing the pointer of the responsibility. some pointers just have little or no retrieveing instinct.

If you have a buddy you hunt with that has a pointer he is not going to be too happy if his dog establishes point and your spaniel or labs shoots by for a flush. Labs and spaniels are smart and they learn real quick that when a pointer they are hunting with locks up on point there is a bird out there in front of it, so they will shoot out in front for the flush. Pointers are usaully farther out and out of gun range so this results in a lost opportunity at the bird and often the pointer will begin to compete with the flusher and starts breaking point.

Teaching whoa avoids all this, doesn't confuse the pointer, while adding one tool to your retriever that may save his life near traffic.

I've been questioned about training non traditional commands to retrievers but if you ignore the tradition aspect of it the reality is the command is just plain useful.

for about the first 20 years of lab training I didn't train whoa, but I do on eveyone I train nowadays.

The last 15 years I've specialized with pointers with few exceptions for some old friends and my own retrievers, I whoa break everyone of them.

The reality is labs and all retriever breeds are so smart that one extra command in no problem for them to learn. And whoa breaking has the same useful side effect as FF in that it will make the dog more obedient and its a lot easier than training FF. Labs will learn the command in about 5 days of 15 minute sessions and then, like any command, you just drill them once in a while to keep them honest. Its a easy command to train.

I train my own flushing dogs to sit and stay on "whoa or hup" interchangeably. Thats no problem for them to understand, and if in the excitement of the situation I blurt out the "wrong" command I get the desired result anyway, brain farts like that are common at my age :lol: .

If there is one thing I'm am absolutely certain of its that there is a lot of utility to be gained by learning other disciplines. By that I mean that everyone that trains pointers would be a better trainer if they trained a few labs and visa versa. At the bare minimum if you want to be a good trainer try to read about training other styles pointer vs flushers vs retrievers because the different disiplinces often overlap and have problem "cures" that you may not be familiar with.

I want a practical hunting dog when I have the finished product and to me that means being able to hunt with friends that have other breeds, with a minimum of fuss.

Our dogs are well capable of learning useful commands from other disiplines, most of them are smarter than their owners :wink:

I also enjoy hunting with a team approach so those stinky rotten calculating roosters don't always outsmart me, nothing like having one run into some thick stuff and sit there laughing under his bill (as my still locked pointer is wondering where the bird he smells is) up when my bug eyed spaniel shows up with blood in his eye :beer:


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## Watchm! (Jul 9, 2005)

Place your dog on a sit. Point your left hand directly at his eyes. Take 3 steps away from him while pointing your left hand at his eyes. After three steps you can drop your left hand. 
When you turn to "pick your dog up" you first point your left hand at him again BEFORE you turn to face him (preferably 3 steps before you turn to face him).
This is the old stop sign method of training. We do not use a stay command. Like stated, sit means sit until released.
You can break this down even more by not walking directly away from him. Sit him then you merely point the hand that is closest to the dog directly at his eyes. You should be able to walk back and forth switching hands and teaching him that your hand is a stop sign.


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## Dusty05 (Aug 21, 2005)

This works good for my pup. I can either say whoa, or just put my hand up. Good advice, I didn't even think of that.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Nice insight, Bob. My only concern here is having two commands (No and Whoa) that sound so much alike. Can easily create unnecessary confusion for your dog, like giving it a name that sounds like any command you use.

Dusty, I suppose to avoid this you could subsitute Whoa for No, but to me they have two separate nuances and meanings.

It all comes back down to making sure your basic OB is rock solid, and taking your time getting there. This is the foundation for all your training. I stress that you need to read up on how to train and follow a program.

This is an interesting subject. It might be informative & fun to begin a thread on the commands we use in training our dogs...


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

Two props that may be helpful in this situation.

The first is a mat or place board. It helps keep the situation very clear. On the mat is good, off is bad. You can then transition to the ground.

The second is a long check cord (rope) looped around a post behind the dog. Sit the dog, hold the rope and move away. Then you can pull the dog back into place if he moves. Go back and put him in place and then move away again.

At this stage be sure to use plenty of praise and even treats. Too often obedience training gets to be work for a dog. Keep it fun for the dog.


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