# Military Brass Read and Heed!!!!



## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

No Longer Just Paranoia
For months, anyone who's proffered the position that the Obama Administration was anti-gun has been dismissed as being a variety of things, from sore loser to rampant paranoid. Nonetheless, since assuming office, members of the Obama administration have steadily- and stealthily- moved against firearms and ammunition.

Their only public blunder was Attorney General Holder's saying the "assault weapons ban" needed to be reinstated. Quickly, House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi - no friend of gun owners - went on record as opposing Holder's suggestion. She went as far as to parrot the words of pro-gun groups, saying the government should enforce the laws on the books today, rather than introducing new laws.

At the same time, the State Department notified Canadian authorities of plans to issue an export ban on "military caliber ammunition" to Canada. That proposed action would prevent the sales of .223, .308 and other military calibers.

When Canadian authorities protested - and notified several members of the American media, the U.S. State Department suddenly went silent. But they quietly reinstated other rules and charges firearms exports-retroactively.

While it seemed they had been headed off on one proposal, they had actually drawn attention away from other actions. If you're into incrementalism, that translates as a win.

Anything passed brings the ultimate goal that much closer.

Last Friday, the anglers and hunters were notified that the National Park Service planned to make all lands under their control totally lead-free by 2010. No lead in ammo or fishing tackle.

As we report in today's Outdoor Wire, that decision has kicked off howls of protests - and questions about the NPS trying to usurp states' rights by issuing their unilateral decision with no prior notification. It's definitely not going to be a decision without some serious discussions. That still doesn't mean the NPS will back off on their decision.

All these things are racing along on parallel tracks. Now, many observers - and not just those on the pro-gun side of the discussion - believe the country is hurtling toward a confrontation.

The catalyst might be any one of several flashpoint issues, but both groups seem to believe a reckoning is unavoidable.

For months, I've gotten reports of everything from re-tasking of military heavy assault units for domestic violence scenarios to calls for "committees of correspondence" designed to spread news the way word was spread by citizens of the then-British colonies.

In each instance, I've discounted the reports as internet hysteria that has produced breathless notices of "the real-deal on the new assault weapon ban"- or references to HR45 - a gun registration bill that is a prime example of "eyewash legislation". It's purpose has already been achieved.

Part of that discounting has been due to the fact that hot-blooded rhetoric seems to run along with firearms ownership.

To the chagrin of industry officials, there's never a shortage of people willing to go on camera, get red-faced and spout "from my cold dead hands" phrases.

Admittedly, those people concern me, but more for their reinforcement of a negative stereotype to people who have no opinion one way or the other on firearms.

Today, however, a report that has nothing to do with rhetoric, hyperbole or rumor.

A very disturbing report that points to a very real assault on ammunition supplies.

The Department of Defense has issued a directive that bans the sale of military brass to ammunition re-manufacturers.

Without that brass, a very large dent is put into civilian ammunition supplies.

New Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service (DRMS) requirements call for the "mutilation of shell casings". Mutilation, incidentally, is the destruction of the property "to the extent that prevents its reuse or reconstruction".

Government officials will determine what constitutes "sufficient mutilation" but it's safe to say that it will no longer be suitable for remanufacturing.

The first word of this latest decision came over the weekend when Georgia Arms' Larry Haynie released a letter notifying him of the new requirement.

For a company with an order in for 30,000 pounds of expended military brass in .223, .308 and .50 BMG, that was not a pleasant notification.

Georgia Arms was remanufacturing more than one million rounds of .223 ammunition monthly; selling that ammo on the civilian market to resellers and to government agencies all over the country.

Tomorrow, Georgia Arms will start sending cancellation notices for .223 ammunition to law enforcement agencies across the United States. Haynie says he may have to layoff half of his sixty-person workforce.

The message is simple. The implication is chilling.
A new welcome page posted on Georgia Arms' website (www.georgia-arms.com) says simply "Due to new government regulations concerning the purchase of surplus brass, we are removing sales of all 223 and all 308 until further notice."

From there, it directs visitors to the government website for contacting elected representatives.

All of us need to start contacting our elected representatives -and telling them, quite directly, that we're not going to put up with a move that not only curtails access to ammunition (nearly all .223 and .308 manufacturing capacity is tied up to satisfy the needs of the military) for civilians - but wastes taxpayers' money turning usable surplus into scrap metal.

Reducing the ammo brass to scrap reduces the value of the metal/surplus by nearly eighty percent. It also means that recast brass - in shippable form - may be shipped to China, one of the largest markets for U.S. metals on the world market.

If this is allowed to go unchallenged, anyone who owns a modern or traditional rifle in .223 or .308 calibers will see the impact- probably sooner than later.

"Anyone" in this context means everyone from recreational shooters to law enforcement trainers.

Pulling military brass out of the consumer supply chain means that all the manufacturing capacity being dedicated to meeting the military need will effectively become unavailable to civilians - forever.

Export rulings, lead bans, and brass mutilation orders from separate areas of the federal government look coincidental - on the surface. I'm not big on conspiracy theories - partially because I doubted the new administration would have gotten its collective act together so rapidly.

Seems I've been wrong on that one - and mistakenly using the word "hoard" when talking about the nearly-insatiable demand for ammunition that continues across the country. Today, laying up of ammunition might be better described as prudent preparation for possible problems.

States are beginning to serve notice to the federal government they will not enforce laws that violate individual rights. The federal government seems intent on creating a society with increasingly higher numbers of people dependent on the government for either sustenance or employment. Average citizens are beginning to grow tired of being asked to "tote the note" for others' irresponsibility.

These are, indeed, uncertain times.

Today, it's important that every reader take time to notify Congress that we - taxpayers - oppose this latest DOD move- and all the other not-so-subtle moves against gun owners.

You can contact your elected officials in Washington by going to this webpage http://www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml and following the links to your respective Senator or Congressman.

One key member of the United States Senate is Montana's Senator Max Baucus, chairman of the Senate Finance Committee. Baucus could make a call to the Pentagon and let them know their budgets might be reexamined if they don't reconsider this latest directive. At that point, the directive might labeled a "misunderstanding" and rescinded.

But it is important that we keep pressure on Congress.

If that means phone calls, e-mails, and letters, let's get that done. If that doesn't produce results, we need to look beyond symbolic gestures like sending tea bags or bringing hundreds of thousands of gun owners to Washington and state capitols to protest.

These are, indeed, uncertain times. But the time for uncertain actions may be passing.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Hey you three Obama voting puppets......please explain in your own words....please, I cant wait to hear this!


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Where did you find this?


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

*****


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

*******


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Thanks to our Montana Senators!!!!

This is from shootingwire.com

One Win For Our Side
At about five-thirty yesterday evening, the lengthy feature that was to have gone in today's editions of both the Outdoor and Shooting Wires was rendered unnecessary. Normally, that's not a reason for celebration. But this was no ordinary occurrence.

After having spoken with Larry Haynie of Georgia Arms regarding the Department of Defense decision to require all once-fired military brass be shredded rather than sold for repurposing to consumers and domestic agencies, it seemed the set-piece battle over gun ownership was underway.

This morning, there is no discomfort whatsoever to report that the Department of Defense has been introduced to the idea that unilateral decisions of this magnitude don't come without consequences.

The voice of reason came from the United States Senators from Montana.

More accurately, the voices of reason came from the Democratic senators from Montana.

Known for pushing ethics reform, Senator Jon Tester apparently isn't afraid to push for gun owners, too.
Senator Max Baucus (D-MT) a hand on the purse strings gets everyone's attention - even at the DOD 
At approximately 4:15 p.m. Eastern yesterday afternoon, Senators Tester and Baucus of Montana faxed a cosigned letter to the Department of Defense asking DOD to reverse their new policy requiring "mutilation" of fired military cartridge brass.

At approximately 5:30 p.m. Eastern our sources tell us, Senator Tester's office received a fax back from the Defense Department saying the brass destruction policy IS reversed.

Already, websites that coordinate the sale of DOD surplus are beginning to remove the "Mutilation" requirement from their listings. This only hours after they began adding the mutilation stipulation.

In short, it seems a fax from the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee and another Senator had considerable powers of persuasion.

That translates to a win for the law-abiding gun owners of the United States.

It is only appropriate that we recognize the party affiliation of both these men, because their willingness to go to bat for the ammunition industry demonstrates that, despite all the indications to the contrary, Washington is not irrevocably divided down party lines.

When it comes to firearms and Second Amendment rights, it seems party affiliations can still be disregarded.

That is reassuring.

Today, firearms owners owe these two gentlemen a vote of thanks.

They didn't wait for an opinion poll, they acted.

Still, this is still no time to relax when it comes to firearms.

DOD has seen the light, but Attorney General Holder and the Justice Department seem determined to try and convince America the problems with Mexican drug smuggling and the related violence is due to the ease with which American arms are being purchased here and smuggled into Mexico.

Fortunately, not everyone is sitting still for that argument.

Last week, Chris Cox, executive director of the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action warned a House subcommittee not to make American gun owners "scapegoats" for the Mexican crisis.

"According to some," Cox said in a prepared statement, "the violence in Mexico is not the fault of the Mexican drug cartels or their American customers, nor is it the fault of decades of Mexican government corruption. In their views, the fault lies with American gun owners."

That, Cox continued, "is an outrageous assertion."

But that assertion continues.

And last week, three Democratic lawmakers were quick to notify Attorney General Holder of their "vigorous opposition" to any new gun restrictions the Obama administration might be considering.

The three lawmakers were Alaska Senator Mark Begich and - you guessed it - Montana Senators Max Baucus and Jon Tester.

Despite some ugly times that will likely lie ahead, it seems it's not too-late to hope for some non-partisan common sense to be injected into Congress.

OK, maybe that's optimistic, but we'll take this win - and all the support we can muster.

Thank you, Senators Tester and Baucus, for your unhesitating support.

Oh yeah - the following note is up on the Georgia Arms website:

"Dear Loyal Customers,

Thanks to your voice, DOD has rescinded the order to mutilate all spent cases as of 4:30 pm on 3/17/09. We appreciate the time and effort that you expended, together we all made a difference. We will be posting the email we received from DOD as well as any additional information within the next 12-16 hours. Thanks so much and lets get to work!!!"

--Jim Shepherd


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

a huge "Thank You" to those montana guys


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Just to keep those informed here. It looks like we have a victory in our hands. As of today once fired brass has been reclassified not to require mutilation. This is a post I got from a gentleman that works for Gov. Liquidation. He is a lowly IT guy that is friends with the CEO. So he has a fairly close line to what is going on. This will cover 50 cal and smaller.

The facts as I know them, which come directly from candid discussions with my CEO, indicate the following:

- Prior to 11/2008, Demil B items required no mutilation for sale to the public. That policy changed in November, but several exceptions were granted. Expended munitions brass was one of those given a waiver.

- Enter the new administration. Since Demil B category items had been given a broad, general label as "national security sensitive" someone above the DRMS (likely in the DLA) reviewed the policy and immediately went with a CYA policy and yanked all exemptions. No thoughts or considerations were given to the implications of this policy change, but this directive was issued to DOD Surplus effective immediately last week.

- **** storm blows up as a result. In particular, the letters, phone calls, and emails to our legislators, the media, and anyone else who would listen caused this policy to be review post haste.

- As of this morning our company was informed that expended munitions brass will now be reclassified as Demil Q -- which requires no mutilation unless sold to a foreign country.

There you have it. The policy change was simply the result of some newbie administrator attempting to close a perceived "national security" loophole and brass got caught up in the snare. There was no political motivation behind the policy change, but it is good that people like us were suspicious, got involved, and helped bring about a resolution.

It is a non event now...
__________________


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Anyone who truly believes a policy change with as far reaching personal and economic impact as this was simply an innocent mistake by an individual CEO who acted without political direction is very, very, naive...


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

S&A,,,You truly think it was an honest mistake?


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## 2Socks (Apr 18, 2006)

blah blah blah ..paranoia strikes deep in the heart land. So when is this all going to come down so I can say hey I still have my guns and ammo. Heard it for 8 yrs under Clinton and *NOTHING happened to effect the average sportsman!*


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

> NOTHING happened to effect the average sportsman!


Most likely no thanks to you.


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## 2Socks (Apr 18, 2006)

Stunning come back red leg. How about 25 yrs of using fire as a resource management tool. Instead of just acting like a tool.
You keep looking for Obama under your bed when habitat is being ****** away. Smart.


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

2Socks said:


> blah blah blah ..paranoia strikes deep in the heart land. So when is this all going to come down so I can say hey I still have my guns and ammo. Heard it for 8 yrs under Clinton and *NOTHING happened to effect the average sportsman!*


Look into 1994 and tell me what happened. You talk about ''average sportsman'' Thats what i call a Fudd, the guy who thinks the 2nd is all about his deer rifle and duck gun. The ''average sportsman'' is the gun owners worst enemy imho.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Instead of just acting like a tool.


I see your new 2socks. With the attitude I don't think you and I are going to hit it off. Read the rules. If you want to hang around drop the attitude.

On the thread about NPS I answered your very limited knowledge of firearms. I have been letting a little politics get into the firearms discussions on here because everyone needs to know, not just the people interested in politics. If you want to make this strongly political 2socks take it to the political form.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Profile for "2Socks"
NEVER a military member
Member "some" pseudo wildlife society
Member Humane society
Wears an "Obama" button
Depends on the rest of us to do his 2nd Ammandmant work for him
Definitely NOT a NRA member

Care to add???


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> blah blah blah ..paranoia strikes deep in the heart land.


Oh, I forgot to mention 2socks. Maybe you need to look up paranoia. You see it's a fear so great that it's delusional. Something that will not happen. Since we are talking about something that already happened, but got reversed that blows giant holes into your theory that this is paranoia. Your so afraid of those of us who have guns that you think we are delusional. That's not going to happen. So in essence your fear of our delusion is paranoia on your part. There are currently two cures for your dilemma. Prozac, and white jackets with long sleeves that tie together in the back.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

> There are currently two cures for your dilemma. Prozac, and white jackets with long sleeves that tie together in the back


You missed your calling, Plainsman !!!!!!!!!!!!

That's absolutely precious !! :beer:

I would like to be convinced Clinton's crime bill did not affect the average sportsman.

I stood in the biggest gun store in IL the evening the bill was signed and watched ar's sell for nearly double what they would have been sold for the day before.

We could start a new thread going into great detail of how that bill affected us ALL........forever...but I doubt 2socks would understand. :wink:

And once again 4curlRedleg has used so little words to make yet another profound statement, so I'd like to echo his point by saying to 2socks.....thanks for nothing!


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