# Dog afraid of water



## zpoehler

I have a "golden lab" that is now 2 years old and afraid of water. Last year duck hunting i went to a slu and shot a couple ducks and he would not swim out to get them, but once i started walking out in the waiters he followed me and had no problem swimming and retrieving the duck, as long as i was no more than 3 feet away from him the whole time. Every time i'd stop and let him go on his own he'd stop and then come back to me and wrap his paws like he thought he was going to drown.
This never ended all year, if i'd shoot a duck he'd stand at shore and whimper & whine at the duck but not retrieve it until i'd go out after it. Does anyone have any info on how to break him from this, he knows what i want him to do but he won't do it. He's a good hunting dog, get him within a half mile of a pheasant and he'll find it, but he isn't much help on ducks/geese over water. Any info would be appreciated, thanks.

Zach


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## Scott Schuchard

i would propbly go out and trow some dummies in the water and have him work with them untill he starts doin what you want you might want to put the dummies on a string so after you toss them out YOU dont have to go get them.


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## griffman

Sounds like he has you trained pretty well! :lol:

The good news is the dog swims, the bad news....you gotta back up a little bit. My guess is you should be able to fix the issue pretty easily.

Here's what I'd do. To start, I'd just have fun with the dog in the water. Swim with him etc., with no retrieving. Let the dog learn to enjoy the water. The more exposure the dog has in the water, the quicker he'll figure out is ok to be in the water. Have him swim from you to a friend, back and forth. So he starts to learn you don't have to be three feet away in order for him to swim.

Once the dog starts "liking" the water, and looks comfortable swimming, I'd find a dog that is water and retrieving crazy! Then, take them both down to the water for some retrieving. The other dog should be a steady dog that retrieves upon command.

Put both dogs at the shoreline. Throw a dummy in the water. Tell your dog to get it. If he doesn't do it, send the other dog. When that dog comes back, praise him like crazy and completely ignore your dog. Keep repeating until your dog can't take it anymore and gets the dummy himself. Always give your dog first shot at retrieving the dummy before sending the other dog.

There are a few other ways to get the dog in the water. But I'd keep it simple to start with. Just don't put the cart in front of the horse. Start by properly introducing the water with no pressure, no stress, just have fun in the water. The retrieving can come later. Remember to keep it fun by the water. If you were angry at the dog for not getting your ducks last year, he may be associating water with you being angry.

If you don't have access to a steady dog, let me know and I'll give you a few other suggestions.

Has the dog always disliked the water? Did you have the dog since puppyhood? How many times have you had the dog in the water? How did you react to the dog not entering the water when you wanted him to? Has the dog ever entered the water without you? Did something "traumatic" happen to the dog in the water?

These are questions that will help determine why he is at this stage in water work.

Good luck


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## zpoehler

Thanks for the info guys,
I've had the dog since puppyhood, he lives with my dad on a farm but there isn't much water near by, my father said whenever the ditches were full of water he'd be out screwing around in there.

As far as him being traumatized in or around water i'm not positive, when he was 1 he went to obedience/training school and the guy doing the training is a family friend, when i told him about the dog not wanting to go after ducks he was quite surprised saying that he did a great job in the water part of the training retrieving dummies, not positive on this but the dog didn't look like he's ever even been in water, when i first had him to the slu he was thumping with his front legs trying to get the hang of it, he honestly looked like he had no idea what he was doing. After a little while he got the hang of it, but still wouldn't leave my side.

I'm going to be taking him out to the lakes soon and see if he'll go swimming with me. I got a fishing partner that has a dog out at the lake that we usually throw tennis balls out off the end of the dock and she goes off the dock flying after them, she also does a very good job of waiting until she is told to go, i'll give that a whirl and hopefully he'll get the point, he does get jealous around other dogs if he isn't recieving adequate attention, so maybe this'll work.


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## Mallard Island

Lots of praise also let him know he's a GOOD DOG, when he retrieves for you in the water on the short marks. make a big deal out of it, then extend the marks a little at a time , and LOTS OF GOOD BOYS.


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## griffman

Z- I'm not sure what the ob trainer did, but the way you describe it, it sure sounds like this dog has not been swimming.

Like M.Island said, lots and lots of praise and most importantly.....short retrieves. It's all about baby steps and ending on a successful note.

Make sure your buddy knows the game plan. When throwing the dummies, they only need to be thrown as far as it takes for the dogs feet to leave the ground and swim. Don't throw the dummies out as far as you can etc.. just far enough for the dog to swim a few feet, grab the dummy and return. If you throw them too far, it may intimidate your dog.

I'm assuming your dog retrieves well on land, so a favorite land dummy may help entice the dog into the water.

Keep a close eye on your dog when using the competition dog. Lots of times a dog will "act" like he's gonna go, then the dog stops when it's knee deep in the water. If your dog starts doing this. That's ok. You can use this to your advantage by setting the competition dog further away from the dummy. Have your dog set in place only a few feet away from the floating dummy, keep the other dog way back on land. When your dog goes in knee deep and stops, send the other dog from afar. This will give your dog time to realize that he can still "beat" that other dog to the retrieve...he's just gotta be brave!

Another tip on water entry....NO dock jumping! The training area should have a gradual sloped easy entry into the water. Boat docks work real well. They are usually not so slippery, nothing in the "way" to intimidate the dog. Steep drop off points should be avoided. If a dog takes one step in the water and the next step he has to swim it's too steep. There should be no surprise drop offs in the entry area. Many dogs get nervous and more scared if they can't anticipate when their feet will leave the floor.

Always remain positive and upbeat when training your dog. It may be hard for you to understand why this water thing is difficult. When a person has a dog that is bold on land, obedient in the house and yard, knows commands etc...it is easy to to develop expectations and get "pushy" on something as "simple" as a 10 foot water retrieve! Many times in dog training NOTHING is simple! Patience is the key. Keep it simple and fun, let the dog learn and develop slowly. This is not a 100 yard dash, its a marathon.

A couple other quick notes-

Keep the training sessions short. Once the dog is swimming to the dummy don't push it too much that day. In other words, don't let the dog get bored with it or "make" the dog do it. Watch the dog closely, you want to quit the session while the dog is having fun, wanting more. You always leave them wanting more.

The reason I "push" the "fun" aspect is because it's a lot easier to train a dog that likes to do something than when it doesn't want to. Most dogs can be forced to retrieve in the water. This should be a last resort. A happy dog is a lot more fun to watch and hunt with than a robot! Keeping training sessions short, sweet, fun and easy develop confidence and desire for more. That equates into a dog that is willing to learn, listen, obey and please it's master. That's the kind of dog you want.....not a robot.


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## brianb

If your dog is birdy, you may want to buy a farm duck and tie its wings with survey tape. Tease the dog with it then hold the dog while someone else puts the duck out in swimming water. Turn the dog loose.

The excitement of the duck will usually cause the dog to forget everything else.

I can't stress how important birds are to training.

Brian


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## griffman

Brian, I fully agree that it takes birds to make a bird dog. But as I stated before, I wouldn't put the cart infront of the horse.

Wing clipped or shackled birds in the water are a way to entice a dog to swim. It is also a good way to get a dog birdy. However, it also has it's downfalls. One downfall is the distinct possibility the dog will only enter the water for a bird. This sounds like a good thing but, lets say you down a bird in a spot where the dog didn't see it drop. If the dog doesn't see that bird, he may not be excited enough to overcome his insecurity in the water to search for it.

Thus the underlying problem.....not being confident in the water. IMO, the described dog needs to develop confidence without birds first. The birds will be introduced later and serve as a good reward for the dog. If you can get a dog to swim for dummies, he should swim for birds.

It's already established that this dog likes birds, swims, and retrieves. There's no reason a birdy water dog like a lab shouldn't be able to be trained in the water by the use of dummies.

When properly introducing gunfire to a dog, you don't start off just shooting birds for the dog. I prefer the same theory for water introduction.

It appears to me this dog has missed a few steps in it's water work. If just throwing live birds in the water would be the cure, the dog should have been excited enough to retrieve them last fall when they were shot over him.

:2cents:


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## northdakotakid

Try this if all alse fails, take a lawn chair and set it in about 1.5 - 2 feet of water, depending on your pups size. Sit and grab a cold one and just relax. Your pup will come to you, start with this because it is a relaxing and calming activity for you... which registers with your pup as a safe scenario and it is not an all out swim. With a little coaxing your pup will want to come out to you and you will have covered up the anxiety. Take it slow and let them learn to enjoy the water, especially now when it is hot out and the water offers some relief.

Just something that I would try even if it sounds a little different, it works because the pup will learn to become comfortable and his/her natural curiousity will take over after awhile, just be patient and he/she will gain their independence.


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## brianb

Griffman:

I disagree.



> One downfall is the distinct possibility the dog will only enter the water for a bird. This sounds like a good thing but, lets say you down a bird in a spot where the dog didn't see it drop. If the dog doesn't see that bird, he may not be excited enough to overcome his insecurity in the water to search for it.


You are talking blind retrieves. Now, that is putting the cart before the horse. Blinds are way way down the road for this dog. I was looking to just get the dog in the water. If you want a dog to reliably do water blinds then you need to go through the full program from force fetch, force to pile, 3 hand cast, pattern blinds, water force and swimby. That's at least 6 months of dedicated training after work and on the weekends.

I want a dog who is comfortable around the water before I go through the above program. Although this dog is 2, I see this as a 4 month old puppy issue. The use of birds is a pure positive thing to get him going and comfortable. Then you can switch to dummies. It is the same thing as using treats to teach basic obedience commands. You don't need to use them forever but it is a great way to teach what you want. Except with birds you want to keep going back to them unlike treats.

Although I've been told there is more than one way to train a dog. :lol:

Brian


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## griffman

brianb said:


> Although I've been told there is more than one way to train a dog. :lol:
> 
> Brian


Aint it the truth! :beer:


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## northdakotakid

I think what you need to is think about it as the water response seperate from the retrieving response. Your pup is not afraid to retreive, it is afraid of the water. In my humble opinion you need to seperate the retreive from the fear.

We can talk about blinds, doubles and all other sorts of retreiver training techniques, but it is the water phobia that is the trigger in this situation. I would really think about taking a step back from combining the two together, especially if what your saying is true about your pups retreiving ability already.

First teach your pup to be comfortable in the water away from you, because if you always do what you've always done, you wil get what you always got. Try seperating the two as to not hinder the other.

Just my two cents.


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## brianb

NDK,

Could you elaborate more on how to separate the two, especially this part:



> First teach your pup to be comfortable in the water away from you


I can't think of a way to do that without involving retrieving or a dog trained to do blinds.

Thanks

Brian


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## DakotaDog72

I had a similar problem with my lab. I started working with her at about one introducing her to water. She was good as long as she could touch bottom. I spoke with a trainer and he gave me some good tips

First, find a body water with a shore that has gradual slope leading to the water. Hopefully, this gradual slope continues in the water. Second, work your dog on a warm day. Don't work he too hard were he goes into heat stroke, but to the point were she is more comfortable in the water than out. Next, find whatever it is the dog likes to retrieve. My lab loves tennis balls especially with a chuck-it. So that's what I worked with. If you dog prefers dummies or deadfowl trainers or live birds, then use them. I live in town and didn't have access to live birds so the tennis ball worked great in my cases. I did everything in baby steps. I would go a couple of times and play on the shore line with her, throw a couple of tosses on the shoreline some off shore. Really pumping her up and teasing before the throws. I wanted her to have fun. The first three or four times we went I think she got her feet wet a couple of times. It was more about having fun. Gradually, I would throw the tennis ball into the water. I would let her dictate how often based on her comfort level when she entered the water. I figured if she ran straight into and out of the water with energy, it was a positive. If she tip-toed in, well that was a negative which meant more land work. eventually, every throw was in about ankle deep of water, this took us about 2-3 weeks.

Gradually, I would throw it a little deeper in the water. First, 6 inches from shore, then a foot, then 2 feet etc...to the point to were she had swim to get the ball. This is were we hit the wall. She would not go any unless she could touch. Which reminds me, better wear shorts or bring waders because you will get wet. I was patient and didn't push too hard. My fear was if I pushed her that she would become afraid of the water. So I was patient and POSITITIVE. Clap and chear and pet and really love up your dog everytime she goes into the water. After about 2 more weeks she started swimming. Not far but she was swimming. I kept throwing it further and further. A little bit at time. Maybe any extra foot a day. Everything about water needs to be positive. By the end of the summer she was retreiving balls that were thrown as hard a possible with the chuck-it, so maybe 50-70 yards, on a regular basis.

I guess whatever you choose to do, remain positive, patient and take it slow. Don't be afraid to ask for help from a professional. It may cost you a little but the returns of all those years of hunting will be well worth it.

Good Luck


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## Dick Monson

DD72, that's good advice. Had a lab pup that didn't want to swim. Should have thought of wading first, anyway I took him to a shallow slough where he could splash around in 6" of water and I just walked out deeper. Ignored him completely. After a bit he tagged along, started to paddle, and we were on the way. Like the others said too, another dog along that loves the water helps. Hot weather helps the plan. It's something that shouldn't be forced, let it be his idea.


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## griffman

I think a lot of this dogs success or lack of will have a direct link to the dogs desire, boldness and competitive nature. This dog will have to be strong in at least one of those areas in order to be a "duck dog".

If the dog has enough desire for birds and or to please the master, he'll be ok.

If the dog is bold enough to overcome it's insecurities, he'll be ok.

If the dog is competitive enough with it's retrieve to not let another dog "beat" him, he'll be ok.

I've seen dogs that are not strong in these areas, water is not their strong point. One dog in particular, was quite unique. This dog had similar behaviors to the dog in question. She would swim by the owner all day. Would swim for miles along side a canoe at lake of the woods. Loved birds, especially upland, and would retrieve ducks on land without issue. The dog was extremely obedient, just wasn't real fond of the water. She would always let the "other" dog get the retrieve, she wouldn't go in the water to swim for the "fun of it", even if she was hot. She never developed love for the water. She was force broke and will retrieve ducks from the water, but she doesn't like it very much. She was a tough force break cause she broke pretty well on land, but basically had to go through the whole process again in the water.

My point is....sometimes, an owner can do everything "right" and still not have a reliable water dog. Some dogs just don't really like the water.

Zach- I hope you keep us posted on the progress of your training. I think all of the advice given so far is very solid, and one of or a combination of the ideas given should help the dog turn the corner.

Good luck!


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## griffman

Zach, I just remembered this article. It is a very good read and you may be able to incorporate some of his training program to fit your needs.

I like this guy's program so much, I plan to use it (in one form or another) for my next dog.

Here you go...

Brianb- You should find this link interesting too! This guy trains his water work WITHOUT BIRDS!

http://www.tcuplandhunt.com/Duck%20Search.htm


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## griffman

Beings as I'm long winded, and always have something to say...I have to add one more thing!

Zach, This was kinda touched on but not really brought to the table. The pro trainer thing was brought up but what was left out was joining a local dog club.

For me it was NAVHDA, you'll need to check into a retriever club, but they serve the same purpose. Joining the dog club was by far the best thing I did for myself and my dog. Now you don't have to be a hardcore trainer/trialer to be in a dog club, you get out of it what you put into into it...just like anything else in life.

The benefits of dog clubs are many. First off, you learn how to train yourself as you train your dog. You get hands on tips, learn how to read your dog etc... The experienced trainers in the clubs are priceless. So many of them have been in your shoes, or overcome difficult training issues so they know how to fix them.

I can't stress enough how important I think dog clubs are. Without NAVHDA, I would have been basically clueless and my dogs potential would have gone to waste.

Zach, this is not meant to slam you, it is only meant to inform you of what you may not know or realize. Here goes.... If you want your dog to perform in the field/water as a gun dog, you need to have a plan. You need to have goals and methods to complete them. You are in a tough spot now probably due to lack of proper training in the earlier stages.

Again, this is not meant to slam you or make you feel bad. I did the same thing with our last dog. She wasn't a hunter, but I had absolutely no idea what I was doing as a trainer. Heck, you're WAY ahead of where I was with our last dog!  I now regret not having the knowledge I needed to get the most out of our last dog....if I only knew then what I know now!

I highly recommend for you to join a club. They'll give you the tools you need to get what you want out of your dog.....

I think Hydro lives in your area? Maybe he could chime in and steer you in the right direction?


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## brianb

Thanks for the link Griffman.

I am sorry if I came off as birds are the only way to work a dog in the water. I meant that for this dog a shackled duck seemed to me a good way to get the dog to forget its apprehension around water.

Now, I should've realized you were coming from a "duck search" and NAVHDA perspective.

The retriever training is generally much more control based with lots of drill as I rattled off earlier.

A buddy has a DK (GSP) that I helped him with the duck search. I was only an extra set of hands but it was interesting to watch. It was a combination of a blind retrieve and a trail but unlike a traditional blind where you handle the dog all the way to the bird, the dog is allowed to hunt once it gets out and gets a whiff of duck. THat is a big no no for the hunt test game.

I totally agree with joining a dog club. The club in Spokane really helped me. Access to grounds and birds and others' experience. Plus, it was a great bunch of guys and that I eventually got to hunt with.

Brian


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## griffman

brianb said:


> I am sorry if I came off as birds are the only way to work a dog in the water. I meant that for this dog a shackled duck seemed to me a good way to get the dog to forget its apprehension around water.


I knew what you were saying. You are right, this may be exactly what turns the light on for that dog. I choose to use the live bird as a last resort, mostly due to my NAVHDA roots. You see, I agree with you that Zach needs to approach this 2yr old as a puppy. In NAVHDA, the natural ablilty test, a simple water entry is performed. A puppy must swim after a dummy two times in order to receive max points. If the puppy does not go after the dummy, a live bird can be used, but the puppy will not receive a high prize even if it performs all the other tests perfectly.



brianb said:


> The retriever training is generally much more control based with lots of drill as I rattled off earlier.


You guys have those dogs do some amazing stuff, I'm still sold on the duck search though :wink: In that link I posted, the owner, Carey's main dog Caleb is an awesome dog. He tests his dog along with the retrievers too! Caleb has some retriever title....HRC I think? I don't know, but I know that dog is quite a versatile! Carey's done his legwork with him!



brianb said:


> A buddy has a DK (GSP) that I helped him with the duck search. I was only an extra set of hands but it was interesting to watch. It was a combination of a blind retrieve and a trail but unlike a traditional blind where you handle the dog all the way to the bird, the dog is allowed to hunt once it gets out and gets a whiff of duck. THat is a big no no for the hunt test game.


That's what I can't figure out about you retriever guys. If a dog is on the water, and scents a wounded but swimming/escaping duck, what is the retriever supposed to do? The versatile is supposed to chase that thing til it is caught or pushed in a position where the handler can safely shoot the bird again. What if the duck has moved from the point the reitriever handler last saw it? I don't know about you retriever guys.....I'd rather trust my dogs nose over MY ability to steer him in the water! :lol:


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## hydro870

> That's what I can't figure out about you retriever guys. If a dog is on the water, and scents a wounded but swimming/escaping duck, what is the retriever supposed to do? The versatile is supposed to chase that thing til it is caught or pushed in a position where the handler can safely shoot the bird again. What if the duck has moved from the point the reitriever handler last saw it? I don't know about you retriever guys.....I'd rather trust my dogs nose over MY ability to steer him in the water!


No problem man! I run the dog on a traditional in-control blind retreive to the point (or general area) I last saw the wounded duck crawl out of the water into the cattails. Once he gets there I blow the whistle to sit him (or tred water). Now that he is looking at me I yell "find it". Now the dog takes over and comes up with the bird. Works great for me - the best of both worlds.

So you see, you don't need a versitile dog, all you need is an AKC Master Hunter! 

:beer:


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## griffman

hydro870 said:


> No problem man! I run the dog on a traditional in-control blind retreive to the point (or general area) I last saw the wounded duck crawl out of the water into the cattails. Once he gets there I blow the whistle to sit him (or tred water). Now that he is looking at me I yell "find it". Now the dog takes over and comes up with the bird. Works great for me - the best of both worlds.
> 
> So you see, you don't need a versitile dog, all you need is an AKC Master Hunter!


Hydro, hydro, hydro.....no need to yell or blow on that silly whistle all day! Just one "Fetch" and a tap on the ear for release......that's it!

So you see, you don't need an AKC Master Hunter, all you need is a Prized Utility dog! :lol: :beer:

Now get our man Zach hooked up with some of you retriever boys OK?


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## brianb

Hydro pretty well hit it. Although my dog isn't quite as well trained. Sometimes, if the scent gets too hot he'll turn me off and just go get the bird. It's hard to get upset with him when he has a big ole greenhead in his mouth.

That nose has cost me a couple of ribbons but I don't take the hunt test game too seriously. I just like having a well trained dog. (at least by my standards and my hunting partners)

I saw that the caleb dog had his HRCH. That is very impressive and is roughly the equivalent to an AKC Master Hunter.


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## hydro870

All this talk about hunting is giving me the fever. Nothing beats the real thing. About 2 1/2 months to go.........


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## Mallard Island

YEAH!!!! THE DAYS ARE GETTING SHORTER.. BEFORE YOU KNOW IT WE WILL HAVE OUR :roll: TOWARDS THE SKY :sniper:


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## houndsman

This thread was an interesting read. You guys sure have a lot of good savvy. Thanks for sharing - now all I need is a good bird dog - but I don't think my bride would stand for it!!

Good Hunting to ya.


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## weenugg

Get yourself some pigeons and clip their wings. Start off by throwing them in water that the dog can run and bound in. A pigeon flapping in water should get a dog into water with out it even knowing it is getting wet. Then throw the pigeon farther out so it has to swim a few strokes. If does not have them barrelling in bring another dog in. get a race on. Should be easy to do this time of year (warmwer water). At two years old don't baby the dog to much. I am not saying beat it to get it
in the water but don't make a fuss about it. Dogs pick up on your nervousness and get nervous themselves. Birds are the cure all for bird dogs.


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## zpoehler

Thanks for all the tips guys...I would have replied sooner but my computer was sent to California to get a new motherboard, anwyays I took Buck out to the lake and he had no problem swimming, I'm wondering if it was the cold water that he didn't like? I guess i'll find out this fall because now i know he can swim. I used a mallard dummy and the short retrieve method, then gradually throwing it out further with lots of praising...after a few retrieves i'd quit and he'd come back and drop the dummy at my feet wanting more, worked very well, i'd wait about a beer or two and repeat, with a little more work he's going to be a very good all around bird dog. Thanks again,

Zachary


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## stevepike

Sounds great. Just keep up with him and get him as much water time as possible, always quitting before he is ready. Keep him itching for more and hopefully the water temps will not bother him. Heck, the water isn't that cold in September


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## Gettinbirdy

My lab didn't have any problems at all with water. I didn't introduce him until he was 4 months old. By then he was so crazy and excited about the bumper I don't think he even noticed the water. Now it's tough to get him out of the water. He likes to paddle around for minutes at a time which can be great for his stamina. The only thing I've noticed as of late is when I throw a bumper out he'll bring it 90% the way back drop it and head out for more exploring/paddling. I think keeping the water sessions focused on training and not so much play will help keep his mind on retreiving when in the water, rather than playing and swimming around.

My $.02!


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