# History on the Distain of Carp



## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

The tide of public opinion turned against carp starting in the United States around late 1890's (about 20 years after the first federal stockings) at the start of introductions Common Carp were a fish intended for the masses- yet carp remained popular in Europe to this day, why? Reputations are shaped by public views-- just as the Carps reputation was shaped by events 125 years ago in the USA, then why was the carp not held in distain in the UK or Europe? 
It is a myth that Europeans do not have anything else to catch or have few places to fish, Northern Pike, many trout species (even our own rainbows and brookies)--Zander--"a walleye like fish"-even a mega Predator called the Wels Catfish, are available to fisherman from any walk of life, but Carp are still king by a wide margin with billions spent across the EU. Why?
Carp became a metaphor for all things poor-carp introductions was not meant as a federal institutionalization of fish farming per say but more like the Brits planting of breadfruit trees as a cheap food source for slave populations of the Caribbean. Or like the potato in Ireland.
These foods wealthy landowners considered foods that were low class.

The growing animosity that developed over time toward African Americans & immigrants around the time of carp introductions-is well documented. Naturally, any low income population subsists to some degree on hunted and gathered food sources to supplement more modern ways of working and earning wages to put food on the table. Unwanted items, became "poor mans fodder" chitins--fatback--possum--****--and carp-- plentiful and cheap---any people that ate them, where looked at in the same light--back then you fished to catch and eat--and if your a middle class man and caught some carp the proper thing was to give them to "that poor family down the street" a still pervasive attitude even today.

Hunger was an issue in post civil war south and its boarder states--the complete dismantling of the old south plantation cotton economy/ and the poor food crop production from played out old cotton fields took many decades before the average southerner was living as well as they did pre-civil war--carp where an abundant food possibility--that could be harvested with no more than a trot line an a bit of cotton seed cake--- a rational way to catch carp in southern rivers--many an African American family ate carp--and why not?- considering how little cost was involved and the poundage of quality protein that would feed the large families at that time.

Many lakes & streams where still distressed well into the 1950's & less hardy bass and crappies were unable to compete the way carp and other fish can in contaminated waters because of the ability to take oxygen from the surface in low in oxygen environments due to pollution

In the USA stocking Carp was intended to supplement traditional food fishes as a sustainable food source in many lakes & streams to augment fish stocks. At the time of the first carp stockings many states did not like the idea of the federal government telling them what to do-the confederate civil war veterans, most who would have been in their late 30's to early 50's with all the resentments of reconstruction, many viewed the carp as carpet bagger or immigrants fish with all the distain that comes with associated politics. In the northeast a flood of immigration from Eastern Europe where carp had been part of there diet for centuries. In many ways public opinion on immigration today mirror those at the turn of the century.

Common carp quickly became considered a "poor mans fish" that's was given to the states as a means to feed the poor minorities and immigrants. That along with the ability of the carp to dominate or take over distressed aquatic environments, was an uncomfortable metaphor for the northern business folk swooping down on the south to take advantage of new business opportunities (carpet baggers) or the huge wave of emigrants entering the northeast. it's not surprising how the view of carp happened the way that it did

The Brown Trout also once had a negative public reputation but seemed to weather the negativity, were as the carp elsewhere did not--possibly because the numbers of browns where not as wide spread as carp--and as trout were not a major food source for those who subsisted to some degree on wild caught foods in areas where they where stocked, primarily African Americans and eastern European or poor whites -- ---Even today trout fishing in most areas of the USA if not the world are demographically upscale " meaning trout fisherman on the average have a higher income level " just look at an Orvis catalog and you can see what I mean--which is one reason browns never sank to the level of distain as the carp. A proper game fish for wealthy Victorians was trout and the early rise of sport fishing was about the fly and the fish that could be caught on a fly. Then later-in the south's warm waters--the bass--which was the southern equivalent -in fact southern old timers called largemouth bass "green trout" and the fish where much less available and rarer than carp at that time, remember this is before many large man made lakes that where built after 1930. Into the boom years of lake building 1950---1975 where almost billion surface acres of new largemouth and also carp habitat where constructed which coincided with the exploding sport fishing movement aided by the advent of spinning reels with monofilament fishing line. Up until post WW2 early sport fishing gear was generally expencive.

Only now in the history of fishing in the United States has an atmosphere of fishing just for the thrill of the fight has become the dominate view of those fishing today In the past you fished to eat, not for the sport, that idea popular with turn of the century era President and avid sportsman Teddy Roosevelt who was keen to enjoy the outdoors this was well written about in the press and generated much interest in search of sport. He so loved the outdoors he establish the National parks as we know them today.

Still you hear people say to you " why the heck would you want to fish for carp--bony things aren't worth eating fish." Old attitudes diehard. As you develop as an angler eventually the logic of why you fish kicks in with years of personal catch experience, even average size carp give the fight of a lifetime with many long drag smoking runs, isn't that the point of fishing?

...enter the growth of Euro-Carping over the last 10 years in the US
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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Thanks that was interesting, so do they have more or less bones than a northern pike.


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## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

About the same... carp have the same floating ribs, but no y bones

if I where to eat one of the 2... I probably would pick a carp about 5-6 pounds are best

once they break 10 pounds they get a little "off"

I have had it canned and it tasted like salmon--also had some made into fish jerky it was really good I need to get the recipe and post it

if you soak the meat in milk for 30 minutes before frying its pretty good just a tad bony--but the bones are pretty big


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

is it possible to make a boneless fillet the same as northerns, what color is the meat? is it oily? as you can tell I've never had one. Thanks


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

My dad goes out carp fishing just about every morning and the nights he is off of work in the spring and summer months. They through them back so someone else, possibly a first time fisher or a youth can possibly enjoy them as well.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I stood on the rocks at Garrison Dam a few times trying to get one with bow and arrow but no luck, I saw some huge ones in there. I would like to know more about the meat from these fish.


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## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

In all honesty I haven't found a great way to eat carp. I've even tried the smaller ones without much luck. They taste too oily/fishy. The only way I like 'em is smoked or diffused via soil into my mama's tomato plants. :wink:


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## carptracker (Jan 7, 2006)

Common carp meat is a little darker and stronger-tasting and has a little more oil content than Northerns. Flesh of male carp is darker overall and also has a higher percentage of the very dark lateral line meat than females. I generally don't bother with cleaning the males, unless they are very large. Fish from lakes have a lower percentage of lateral line meat than river fish, usually. I can eat common carp OK, but it will never be my favorite. I do like it smoked. If your carp is large enough, you can debone it, but it takes some work. Do a google search for "carp lemonade" and you will find an article on how to debone carps. It works best on large fish. I disagree with MOcarp that there are no y-bones in common carp. Most of the intramuscular (floating) bones in carp are y-bones, except back by the tail. I recommend if you are going to fry the fish that you NOT try to debone it. Instead try this method: Filet, leaving the ribs attaced to the skeleton. Skin the filet and cut it down the lateral line. Remove the dark lateral line meat. Cut off the (now boneless) meat from the rib section and put it in your pile to fry. Now carefully cut the two filet halves into long strips, cutting BETWEEN the intramuscular bones without cutting the bones. The bones lie lengthwise at an angle through the flesh. Be careful not to cut the bones or you will end up with little pieces that can get caught in your throat. This is a lot easier than you think, once you figure out where the bones lie. Now fry the long strips. On your plate, break the long strips in half. One half will now be boneless. Eat that half. The bones will be sticking out of the other half, so grab them and pull them out. Now eat that half. Far easier than eating chicken wings. I like this WAY better than the scoring method, which always leaves some bones that do not cook up as they should. This strip method also is very good with bighead, silver, and grass carp, which are all far better eating than common carp.


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

As one who has worked a lot with fish grown for food and educated (aquaculture technologist) I can say that 1 billion chinamen cannot be wrong. Carp are the largest group of fish raised for food in the world right now.


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## carptracker (Jan 7, 2006)

Common carp culture doesn't come that near the top, though. Silver carp and bighead carp production is much, much higher than common carp. These two fishes are also much better eating than common carp. Most Asians would agree with that assessment.


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## Invector (Jan 13, 2006)

carptracker said:


> Common carp culture doesn't come that near the top, though. Silver carp and bighead carp production is much, much higher than common carp. These two fishes are also much better eating than common carp. Most Asians would agree with that assessment.


Did common carp get posted as being the top cultured?


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## boondocks (Jan 27, 2006)

Heres a good carp recipe-soak them in milk over night,then wrap the fillets around a board and smoke them,then throw away the the carp and eat the board.ha ha


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## MoCarp (Nov 22, 2005)

every once in a while this need to be brought up top to rehash old ideas and give newer readers some history on why we view some fish the way we do


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## bowcarp (Feb 27, 2007)

MoCarp said:


> every once in a while this need to be brought up top


why ? :-?


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## carp_killer (Nov 24, 2006)

bowcarp said:


> MoCarp said:
> 
> 
> > every once in a while this need to be brought up top
> ...


to cause problems


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## bowcarp (Feb 27, 2007)

aahhhhhhhhhhhh :lost:


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## carp_killer (Nov 24, 2006)

MoCarp said:


> About the same... carp have the same floating ribs, but no y bones
> 
> if I where to eat one of the 2... I probably would pick a carp about 5-6 pounds are best
> 
> ...


YOU killed a CARP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i cant believe i just read that, this should make the news headlines :lol:


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