# Heeling Sticks



## tipup (Feb 9, 2008)

At what age is it good to start reinforcing the sit command with a training stick? My pup understands sit, stay and come and she is going on 13 weeks. Any info would be appreciated.


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## krazysmurf (Oct 6, 2007)

Now would be fine, depending on her level of pain tolerance, start easy at first, and or consider a choke chain, when used effectively and sparingly they can be a wonderful tool.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

I have a real aversion to using them on a baby like yours. I wait until I start a dog's OB, about 6 months, and start them in on a heeling stick then. A dog, in my view, is not capable of accepting harsh pressure at a young age. You'll have plenty of time as he ages and you'll lose nothing.

I believe the most useful things to do with a pup are: 1) Show it tons of love, kindness, and attention. It will help build cooperation later. 2) Introduce him to birds. He'll make his living with birds and every dog should be a bird-a-holic when starting in to training. Bird's can solve a lot of problems you may encounter. 3) Expose him to all different environments and let him learn about them by himself. Get him swimming, let him wander around in high cover, take him on a leash in to towns so he becomes accustomed to strangers and loud noise. 4) Start him on ''puppy marks". Nothing to far and mostly in very short cover. This will develop his depth perception later. 5)Teach him NO. Even though he's a babe, he doesn't just get a free ride. NO, properly introduced, can stop virtually every unwanted behavior in a dog and is one of the most important commands he'll ever learn. I call these the "Basic 5" and in my view, every pup should be given this start, no matter the breed.

Just let him have fun and teach him what life is about for the first six or so months. You've got plenty of time to teach him his A-B-C's later. :beer:


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## gonedoggin (Mar 20, 2008)

There are better ways to communicate w/ your dog than striking her.

I really don't think dogs understand getting hit. Don't get me wrong, I'm not averse to using negative feedback when appropriate, I just don't think they "get" the idea that because I did "x", I got swatted.

E-collars are more effective than striking but at 13 weeks I'd still be using positive reinforcement exclusively.


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## gonedoggin (Mar 20, 2008)

krazysmurf said:


> Now would be fine, depending on her level of pain tolerance, start easy at first, and or consider a choke chain, when used effectively and sparingly they can be a wonderful tool.


Are you fkm???

13 weeks?

Dude, get another hobby please.


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## rolly (Jul 30, 2007)

I'd have to say it depends on the dog. I may disagree slightly with these other guys, but I haven't trained a ton of birddogs, only **** hounds and terriers.

E-collars do a lot of good, but I've used your method too. Either way, a smart dog won't make a ton of mistakes using even the slightest correction. JM 2 cents.

Dude....?? I don't think he needs another hobby, I think he is probably right, but so are you, e-collars work very nicely. I realize 13 weeks may be young, but too early, nawww. I don't think he is advocating beating the dog into submission, just gentle correction with a choker and training stick.


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## gonedoggin (Mar 20, 2008)

I'm sorry, I wasn't very tactful.

It is my strong opinion that subjecting a <13 week old puppy to a stick and/or a choke chain is guaranteed to create an unenthusiastic "pig" at best and more likely a sneaky dog who uses avoidance to escape pressure. Either way it's unnecessary and creates a degree of resentment between a dog and her master.

An approach that uses positive reinforcement and correct timing to teach and condition the desired behavior should be stressed while slowly increasing distractions. When the pup is showing prompt, reliable response to the command 70%-80% of the time in the presence of mild distraction, then it's time to introduce "force".

It's not fair to use force/pressure if the dog doesn't understand what he's doing wrong. Mike Lardy emphasized the importance of only using pressure for "lack of effort", never "mistakes". A 13 week old pup hasn't lived long enough to build confidence in the world to start being punished for making mistakes.

I know thousands of dogs have been trained w/ a stick but I have considered this a fair amount and I can't fathom how anything in the canine personality would prepare him to understand being "struck". I've seen primates strike each other in documentaries so I think it's something we assume other animals understand, but I think the swinging of a switch or rattle stick is much more unnerving to a dog than an e-collar.


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## krazysmurf (Oct 6, 2007)

I apoligize, I guess I was vague on what I meant with choke chain/stick. It's exactly that, just a simple correction, I'm not speaking of popping the dog harshly with the chain, or hitting the dog with a stick, just the sound of the choke chain ratcheting is usually enough to get the dog to comprehend that it is a correction, not a punishment.


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## tipup (Feb 9, 2008)

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the replys. I didn't mean to stir the pot. These forums are great because it quickly reminds an amatuer like myself that the loss of puppy teeth comes between 5-7 months and that is the time to hit obediance hard. This little girl is having pleanty of fun so far in South Dakota.


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## rolly (Jul 30, 2007)

No worries man. I again have to say I have NO, none, zilch, experience with birddog or this kind of obedience. I train **** dogs to go find game and listen to me, not pull the leash, don't chase cows and not fight each other. Very different game there.

Tipup, let her have fun and grow up some like you said. She'll be ready someday, and you'll know when that is...that's the key. My breeds of dogs are ready for a different game at a different time than dogs of other breeds.


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