# The Real Story is not what you are hearing....



## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

http://www.star-telegram.com/ed_wallace ... 11156.html

good article. we will be suddenly poor by huge tax increases coming our way under Osama.....average energy tax will be upwards of $1,600 annually per average family of 4. this is extortion by our government, all in the guise of climate change mediation. enjoy the fresh air, it will only stimulate an appetite you won't be able to afford to feed.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Have you watched the Obama Deception? If not you need to.


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## goodkarmarising (Feb 8, 2008)

x


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

*

100 billion "gift" to retool Detroit? At a cost of $40,000/worker? We will get a return from the income taxes from the workers in the future? 

Kind of sounds like the idea of spending more money to get out of debt!!!

The top 5% that pay 80% of the taxes don't work in the auto factories.

This kind of thinking is what gets us into debt.

uke:


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

goodkarmarising said:


> That article deals with the decline of Detroit, where are the links to the energy taxes and such?


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31137

it's not too hard to just look it up....but then lots of people failed to check Obama's voting history and his character issues, before they wrongly pulled the lever and voted for him.....this is the kind of "change" many will regret. this is part of the reason for the Tea Party Protest, the reasons you won't see in the liberal press.....you have to look deeper, if you are waiting for the great "deceiver" to slap you in the face, it isn't going to happen....his plan is to "slip it in you" when you aren't paying attention!


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## Aznative (Apr 6, 2009)

Take the big Os estimate of his cap and trade tax rasing 648 billion. Now we have 300 million in this country. The math tells me this will cost the average joe $2160 per year. The average family is roughly 3 people. This equates to over 6 grand per family in higher costs. Since some of this will be paid for by industries that use power, famlies will see some of this six grand passed off in higher cost of goods purchased. The rest will show up on our electric bill soon. You better believe this idea is a real economic killer. I've been screaming this to the public, but they act like I a schizomanic or something worse.


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## Aznative (Apr 6, 2009)

I just got back from eating dinner, and I'll finish what I wanted to say.

The day after the election, the CEO of GE sent a letter out to stockholders telling them that GE is in great shape dispite the down economy. GE has invested heavily into renewable energy and stands to make 6 billion in the next 8 years if the cap and trade passes. GE owns MSNBC, CNBC and NBC. Now you know why these networks supported the big O big time.


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

Aznative said:


> I just got back from eating dinner, and I'll finish what I wanted to say.
> 
> The day after the election, the CEO of GE sent a letter out to stockholders telling them that GE is in great shape dispite the down economy. GE has invested heavily into renewable energy and stands to make 6 billion in the next 8 years if the cap and trade passes. GE owns MSNBC, CNBC and NBC. Now you know why these networks supported the big O big time.


That's the facts!!!! I think thats why Santelli went on vacation a few days after his tea party idea.


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## jacobsol80 (Aug 12, 2008)

Why wouldn't GE back this administration, after all the government is guaranteeing 139 million of its debt.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2 ... -cash.aspx


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## goodkarmarising (Feb 8, 2008)

x


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

> it's not too hard to just look it up....but then lots of people failed to check Obama's voting history and his character issues, before they wrongly pulled the lever and voted for him.....this is the kind of "change" many will regret.


I think what most of you guys fail to realize is that many will not regret Obama's changes. Many are lazy and promote socialism. You guys keep talking about how Obama was a wrong choice, the problem is we are the minority in America. The Obama supportering socialists are the majority.


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

ruger1 said:


> > it's not too hard to just look it up....but then lots of people failed to check Obama's voting history and his character issues, before they wrongly pulled the lever and voted for him.....this is the kind of "change" many will regret.
> 
> 
> I think what most of you guys fail to realize is that many will not regret Obama's changes. Many are lazy and promote socialism. You guys keep talking about how Obama was a wrong choice, the problem is we are the minority in America. The Obama supportering socialists are the majority.


They were the majority of the voters this time, but not the majority of the "American People".

I am confident that in 2010 we will see a record number of voters pulling the lever for a change back. We just need some dedicated citizens to run for office and take our way of life back.

It looks like you will have to do it with out Minnesota, my fellow citizens seem to keep electing the weirdest people they can put on the ballot.

Red Johnson would call them "dumb a$$es".

:beer:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

What most people on this forum seem to forget is that Obama was the better of the two candidates for the economy. The economy is what is on the minds of millions of americans. This went way past acorn, socialism, and economic class. There are a lot of people who maybe used to vote repub who are just tired of the same old crap, hence the Obama vote. Blame acorn all you want the bottom line is the democrats got their message out and the republicans didn't. The republicans were constantly on their heels, dodging scandals, the Palin factor, and had no good plan for the economy. All we heard is tax cuts, great, what about the budget, the trade defecit, blue collar jobs-especially the dreaded shovel ready jobs, healthcare, and social security????

As I stated on election day I wouldn't have minded McCain but he lost me when he said "our economy is fundamentally strong" :eyeroll: Our economic fundamentals are based on three things: overspend, import, and payoffs for the elite. Obama promised change and even today he is claiming that his tax cuts will pump 120 billion to taxpayers, it doesn't seem possible that we can sustain all of this spending and have tax cuts.

Tomorrow Obama is in Mexico, here we go with more talk about guns, drugs, and illegals. Three things the Bush admin did nothing about. Republicans have no one to blame but themselves.

Right now the best hope we as a nation have is the Bayh group of moderate democrats, hopefully they can get some things going with republicans and shut down the liberals. Republicans need to gain momentum off of this tea party, they took a page from team obama with the internet and bloggers, now they need to keep it moving. It will all be for nothing until the republicans learn how to come up with plans that benefit middle class americans in areas other than guns, abortion, and religion.


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

"It will all be for nothing until the republicans learn how to come up with plans that benefit middle class americans in areas other than guns, abortion, and religion."

Like "Redistribution of Wealth" and "Big Wasteful Government" I agree and its happening now. But we will still keep vigilant on guns,abortion and religion.

True the senior republicans have to step aside and let the next generation of conservative take lead, other wise it will be the same old talk and spending. The current republicans talk about over spending and then they tag on pork projects of their own to the biggest budget proposed in history. Whats with that?

Most republicans I think are looking for a dynamic party and not the same ones you see on the news now for the most part.

We will see in the next 18 months if they can reorganize for the 2010 elections.

I don't think obama got the votes because the people thought he would be better at the economy, I think people thought he was running against President Bush because that's all obama talked about instead of telling the voters what obama stands for. I think voters are figuring that out now, that voting with some idea what a candidate is capable of is important! The saying goes "you can't fix stupid" but you can vote intelligently.

McCain didn't have a clue about the economy, neither did (does) obama, you can't expect anything great from any congress person that only knows "tax and over spend".

I don't blame Acorn for anything, I blame the fascists that create these organizations and get their liberal government officials to fund them.

I guess I'm a "right wing extremest" now.

Just my opinion.


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## pintailtim (Apr 6, 2007)

McCain doesn't know anything about the economy?

I don't know how it is where the rest of you work but my workplace is laying off about 10% of the workforce. Our CEO said that a reduction in workforce is needed to keep us viable and profitable. He stated that a payroll tax reduction(McCain wanted) would have eliminated the need for the layoffs. Now if the company that I work for is elimnating 10%, and your company, and that company,......where do these people go? what do they buy or spend their money on? they don't. You can give the banks all the money in the world, but if I am worried about losing my job, the last thing I am going to do is go borrow money from a bank. So IMHO the McCain plan will be the plan that keeps me and you working!


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

I agree pintailtim, and let me add this:

McCain made the statement that he didn't know much about economics during his campaign. I am confident that he would have surrounded himself with creditable economist if he was elected, much unlike what we have now. And he would have put in to action a plan that would actually restart the economy. Lowering employee taxes would help for sure.

I've been thru a few recessions and the plan that worked was,

(1) give incentives for business's to purchase and write of equipment like trucks,cars,buildings, office equipment. As you can see this would benefit workers from manufacturer,sales,deliver and the service sector.

(2) tax cuts in payroll to get the people to spend money on things other than the necessities. Like dinning out, going fishing  etc. and buying cars.

(3) reduce government spending except for the military, because the dems before them had shrunk the military to a point where we couldn't even defend our own country( and it looks like that's the plan now,too). And military purchases create jobs.

I believe you will see a false sense of growth later this year when the stimulus money starts to circulate, but it will only last for a quarter or a little more. They will annualized that quarter growth to make it look like a 4 to 5% year over year increase in GDP. Then we will see another correction in the stock market.

You are dead right, the workers laid off and the ones that feel they are next aren't going to buy anything except the necessary things until the private sector creates some jobs.

I haven't built a house in over 18 months and the small time sub contractors that I use are in big trouble, and they can't collect unemployment being self employed.

Some people will argue that government spending creates jobs. They will but only for a short period unless the government throws more "stimulus" money out for government projects agin creating a more national debt. When those programs are completed so are the jobs unless there is expansion in the private sector.

Until the dumb a$$ "progressive" democrats figure out how to end a recession, the economy will stay flat after job loss,retail sales,etc find the bottom.

Its a sad time for America.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

TK33 said:


> What most people on this forum seem to forget is that Obama was the better of the two candidates for the economy. The economy is what is on the minds of millions of americans. This went way past acorn, socialism, and economic class. There are a lot of people who maybe used to vote repub who are just tired of the same old crap, hence the Obama vote. Blame acorn all you want the bottom line is the democrats got their message out and the republicans didn't. The republicans were constantly on their heels, dodging scandals, the Palin factor, and had no good plan for the economy. All we heard is tax cuts, great, what about the budget, the trade defecit, blue collar jobs-especially the dreaded shovel ready jobs, healthcare, and social security????
> 
> As I stated on election day I wouldn't have minded McCain but he lost me when he said "our economy is fundamentally strong" :eyeroll: Our economic fundamentals are based on three things: overspend, import, and payoffs for the elite. Obama promised change and even today he is claiming that his tax cuts will pump 120 billion to taxpayers, it doesn't seem possible that we can sustain all of this spending and have tax cuts.
> 
> ...


Very well stated, sir. I think yesterday showed that the Conservative message is getting out. the Republican Party needs to get back to it's roots and focus on that message. If so, I think we (all Americans) will be on safer ground after the 2010 ellections...


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

First of all I quoted mccain's own words, and between the two there is no doubt most americans who voted believed obama was better on the economic side.



> I don't think obama got the votes because the people thought he would be better at the economy, I think people thought he was running against President Bush because that's all obama talked about


I agree with the last part about bush, but there were several polls out before the election and even the beloved FOX polls had obama way ahead in the economic polls/questions. This goes beyond big government, this is just out of control I am very disappointed so far like everyone else. Not everyone voted for hip or trendy reasons, there are people who look at the issues, and since the NRA, GAO, etc never called obama out (thanks in large part to the media) he was allowed to *****-foot around gun questions and simply respond with a statement like we can pass gun laws without effecting legal gun owners.



> (3) reduce government spending except for the military, because the dems before them had shrunk the military to a point where we couldn't even defend our own country( and it looks like that's the plan now,too). And military purchases create jobs.


Gates' plan is following a plan started by Rumsfeld, I think this is a good plan. More special ops, less infantry; more technology, less inventory; more urban/guerrilla trained soldiers, less conventional. I read somewhere that part of this plan is to recruit more college grads, looking hard at athletes because of the obvious.

Everyone knows the state our country in sucks but too sit and back and blame one party or another is too easy and just plain wrong. They have both screwed us to tears and if the general population doesn't change things by the mid-terms we will be staring down a depression.


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

I agree except for the economic part, I don't remember much from either one on real economic issues. Mostly the same old promises to cut spending and not raise taxes, bla,bla,bla. I can see how that's turning out. Like I posted before the 5 trillion dollar federal deficit was created since 1969 (249 billion in 69) by both sides of congress and signed by Dem and Repub presidents. except when the house was controlled by republicans,I remember they shut down the government to pressure Clinton in to signing a balance budget for four or five years. And most on both sides of the isle took as much pork as they could. That is why I think we need a clean sweep in the next few elections to get new life in D.C. and get term limits. The time is right. :beer:


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Obama had some good ideas on the economy. He apparently put them back in his toolbox. The interesting thing will be when our wonderful trade agreements with china are due later this year. Maybe we could exchange or excuse our debt to them instead of placing tariffs on the crap they send over here and put in our stores.

I will always agree that our taxes are too high but we need manufacturing and other blue collar jobs in this country and when the trade agreements are so skewed there is no way it is possible to get new jobs in these areas. No pollution laws, no workmens comp, no retirement/SS, how in the hell can american compete? When I say pollution I am not talking about the global warming but rather dumping toxic crap right into rivers, waste management, and the emissions we know can't be released into the air without going through some scrubbers or filters.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

yes, the Chinese are a bit behind on quality control...  
we stopped using lead paint in toys and never did make contaminated sheet rock or dog food with melamine...yet we continue to buy this $hit.....i should say, Wal-mart and others continue to sell this $hit!


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

The trade agreements will be interesting for sure. The 2008 debt held by China at 700b and Japan at 600b to fund our national debt is unreal. China marks the product at low prices and we buy them, which cost us manufacturing jobs so we miss out on income taxes. Then congress spends more than they collect in taxes and borrow from china and japan to to fund the yearly deficit. And we even get to pay the interest on the treasury notes to china and japan from the deficit money we borrowed from them!! Its the best "PONZI SCHEME" going on and the voters are finally waking up.

We will never compete when our business's and workers are over taxed because congress over spends 300b a year, until now. Obama says he will cut the deficit in half, but he forgets to tell the voters that he is quadrupling it first!

When the USA business's are required to comply with pollution standards so should every country that imports product to us, kind of level the playing field. Then you will see manufacturing returning to the USA.
Put a cap and trade tax on all countries at today's level and if they increase their carbon foot print and pollution increase the fee for imports and give a tax break to the business's that improve the environment here in the USA. You can't clean up half the globe or cool down half the globe.

I think most moderate voters are on agreement about most hot topics and the way left and the way right will pay for their actions starting in 2010.

The CBO web site gives spreadsheets on the past years deficits and projection for the next 10years deficit. we will never pay down the national debt at this rate, each tax payer would have to pay an extra $68 per week for 20 years and cut discretionary spending by congress by 50% per year for 20 years.

So tax cuts to be more competitive and tax increases and cuts in services to pay down the national debt. This is where the last 30 congress sessions have put us.

Whats the answer?


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

it's all part of the plan...the only way to deal with this is one world government, one world money (new script, don't expect it to have "In God we Trust" on it.......probably more like "In Obama, yes we can!"...)
it's coming, be patient, it won't be long now....


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

hunter9494 said:


> it's all part of the plan...the only way to deal with this is one world government, one world money (new script, don't expect it to have "In God we Trust" on it.......probably more like "In Obama, yes we can!"...)
> it's coming, be patient, it won't be long now....


I read the other day about the IMF releasing some gold to back up there loans to certain countries. You here about people buying gold to protect them from the collapse of the monetary system.

I'll bet a couple "Gold Eagles" that you will be required in the future to exchange your gold for dollars and the Government will put a ban on citizens holding gold, just like guns. They will need your gold to fund the "international money" that the feds want to be a part of. Everything is looking like a bad chapter in the book of "Liberty".

I just hope its the "forward" and not the last chapter.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

My dad has done a lot of work with china and walmart. He gets down right livid at the sound of either of those two terms. I have been told since about 1993 what the effect of these two entities will have on our economy. The good news is that some of the electronics mfgrs are starting to move production back to the US, they have had enough with China's lack of qc and the risks/costs of transporting products across the ocean. This becomes very costly when they get a container of circuit boards and they have a 30%-50% failure rate. FYI, when these boards were made in the US the failure rate was less than .1%

Why did we move our business to China? Because Wall Street liked to see that. Walmart ties directly into this because contrary to what some people may believe or want to believe they have forced companies to drop prices or they will buy from someone else. Huffy, Ertl, and Tonka come to mind.

So what would conservatives like to see Obama do to China? 
Are we in a position to do anything?

Something other than taxes, I think we can all agree we are taxed too much. I also think we are going to get taxed even more.


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