# Don't even care anymore



## JethroBodine

I used to be all for duck hunting correctly setting up in fields and giving the birds a fighting chance before harvesting them. Just spent 1000 dollars to go on a hunting trip and have a good time. Well we arrive and land that was previously available is no longer available due to hunting leases on the land. Posted signs were everywhere and half I'd say were signed with a different name than who actually owned the property. We put on 200 miles and didn't find more than a handful of sections that weren't posted. The ones we did were crp or just grasslands. So anyways we find a huge body of water(roost) and it wasn't posted and as much as I didnt want to I set up on it. Got my limit and chases 1000's and I mean 1000's upon thousands of birds away. Do I give a ****? Not anymore. I am a resident of nd and I feel like an alien. This sport is dying and if you're a freelancer trying to get on birds is harder than actually hunting them. So goodbye to ethics here's to gooning it up the rest of the year!


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## Plainsman

I understand your frustration. I hear people complain about nonresidents, but I don't think it's the people they have a problem with as much as the fact they are changing our state. I am a freelancer myself and when I hunt even out of state I refuse to pay for hunting. Some who come from states that do pay, like Texas for example, pay when they come here. That money is tempting to many landowners, and some start posting and keeping out neighbors in favor of paying hunters.

There is a domino affect too. More paying hunters stimulate people to look for ways to exploit the resource. That leads to guides and outfitters. That isn't all bad until the outfitters business grows. Then he needs look for ways to eliminate the freelance competition. Even others will fence in animals and pass it off as a hunt. They make improvements to their fenced in habitat then pass themselves off as conservationists to the unsuspecting public.

Our legislature isn't conservative they are money worshipers and can only think ag and oil. A good example of that is the early goose season around Devils Lake. Landowners complained there were not enough hunters. There are e ough hunters, but unwilling to pay residents. So our legislature did't represent the people of North Dakota, they represented the pay to hunt my land farmers around Devils Lake.

Conservation is one of the last things our legislature thinks about. I would guess high fence hunts and outfitters to be against measure 5 in North Dakota because it will provide access for hunters that tbey don't get paid for. There are groups in this state working against the freelance hunter. Some will give themselves away by attacking your post, and mine.


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## BB

DuckDawg said:


> Plainsman right on! I will be voting for measure 5. I too am tired of the posted signs. I don't care if these farmers do not ask or take one dime from tax payers, then go ahead post your land. But.....when you the farmer get my tax dollars in any form you loose your right to post your land, just my opinion.
> It just seems to me complaining and farming go hand in hand. No one helps out Joe's Pizza when his business is down why the hell is the farmer getting any handouts at all.


Agreed. However, the pizza delivery lobby in Washington isn't nearly as big as the big ag influence.


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## Plainsman

I guess I look at farmers like any other group of people some good some bad. There are to many good ones to totally abandon supporting them, unfortunately that also makes the bad ones safe. Sort of like the radical Muslims hiding in schools and hospitals. 
Growing up on the farm all the neighbors and my parents blamed poor prices on surplus commodities. If you can sell 100 widgets would you build 200 widgets? Unfortunately that's why our habitat is hurting. If the country needs x bushel of wheat but farmer A wants more income he breaks up and plants more land. Unfortunately that increases the total and price goes down. That puts everyone else behind so they break up and plant more driving prices down further. This will the. Require more support prices.

I think this is why some farmers are against measure 5. Growing up on the farm we had some land in what they called the soil bank. That is why at an early age I begin to think as I became a taxpaying adult I would rather pay for conservation practices than support prices. Conservation not only gives us habitat, but preserves the land for the next generation of farmers. In the end conservation is a win win because reduced production raises prices for farmers. Unfortunately that will cause the bad ones to let others sacrifice while tbey break up even more land. We need some sort of control. The only way to do that is tie strings to a y kind of support. I would start with no support prices on grain coming from land that had never been farmed before. That would be a start.


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## JethroBodine

Just an FYI I returned to that roost early this morning just too see how many birds were still there. To my surprise it was a Dead Sea! Nothing not one single bird. Already got my limit by puddle jumping no reason to keep the thousands and thousands of dollars I have spent on decoys and blinds! :beer: 
I didn't mention this yesterday but I found a nice corn feild it was posted so I look at the sign and get the owners name call the owner. Doesn't pick not surprising it is harvest time and I understand people are busy. I figure out where his farm was located knocked on the door and a very nice lady who I assumed was his wife give me the number of the people posting the property. She gives me the number and I have never heard of the area code. I call it and my iPhone says the caller id is a Nebraska area code. I call and get ahold of the guy and ask if I could set up for a night hunt and he says "were gunna be up there 2 weekends from now I really would appreciate it if you didn't" at this point I hung up the phone. 2 WEEKS YOU ACTUALLY THINK THE SAME BIRDS ARE GOING TO BE THERE IN 2 WEEKS!!! god people come on! Just goes to show it's who you know.. Or how much money you have to buy a hunting lease..


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## 9manfan

^
^
^
^
This area you talk of, how close to the Devils Lake area ?? Just curious, I've never hunted in ND but always hear that the Devils Lake area is a cluster #uck...

I know of a few guys that do hunt ND and dont hunt anywhere near Devils Lake and have no problems getting on land....


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## Rick Acker

I'm curious as well. I understand your frustration but North Dakota is nowhere even close to other states when it comes to access. You should be able to hunt the fringe areas, with less competition and sometimes as good as success as the pay areas. Heck, I drove west of D.L. a couple of weeks back and there were un-posted areas to be found.


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## justquacky

9manfan said:


> ^
> ^
> ^
> ^
> This area you talk of, how close to the Devils Lake area ?? Just curious, I've never hunted in ND but always hear that the Devils Lake area is a cluster #uck...
> 
> I know of a few guys that do hunt ND and dont hunt anywhere near Devils Lake and have no problems getting on land....


 :beer: :beer: :beer:


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## Gooseshredder21

COMPLETELY AGREE
I literally just posted a topic consisting of the same stuff. It's turned into a complete joke to hunt waterfowl and it's rapidly becoming a chore rather than a fun time.


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## teamflightstoppersND

I hear you guys. I hope some of my experiences this year were a fluke. I don't mid the challenge of tricking the birds into coming into my spread which I live for! The challenge I dont desire is having to deal with posted or leased land. It can really ruin a guys attitude but you cant give. You need to stand up and advocate and if you do nothing it won't get better.


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## BB

JethroBodine said:


> I didn't mention this yesterday but I found a nice corn feild it was posted so I look at the sign and get the owners name call the owner. Doesn't pick not surprising it is harvest time and I understand people are busy. I figure out where his farm was located knocked on the door and a very nice lady who I assumed was his wife give me the number of the people posting the property. She gives me the number and I have never heard of the area code. I call it and my iPhone says the caller id is a Nebraska area code. I call and get ahold of the guy and ask if I could set up for a night hunt and he says "were gunna be up there 2 weekends from now I really would appreciate it if you didn't" at this point I hung up the phone. 2 WEEKS YOU ACTUALLY THINK THE SAME BIRDS ARE GOING TO BE THERE IN 2 WEEKS!!! god people come on! Just goes to show it's who you know.. Or how much money you have to buy a hunting lease..


I can't believe you didn't hunt that field knowing that if anyone would approach you (which they wouldn't) you could just say your cousin from nebraska told you to come up and hunt his land.
Heck I am going to nd tomorrow. If you tell me where it is I will hunt it and write a blog with a photo essay on here.
Mother fing corn platers.


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## prairie hunter

Shooting the water is not unethical.

Plenty will do it when there are no fields accessible nearby.

That said, did you ask one landowner for permission ?


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## justquacky

My god , you guys are like a bunch of women, and I am one. Just go out and hunt and have fun...


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## blhunter3

DuckDawg said:


> STOP the dam support prices and when it is no longer profitable they will stop planting. Let supply and demand work and stop taking tax dollars to support farmers.I haven't seen a poor farmer here in ND yet.


You have zero clue on how farming, commodity prices, and crop insurance work. You are so ignorant its not even funny. Its people like you that bash farmers, but yet ask us to hunt on our land.What is your definition of a poor farm? Someone who has all older equipment but has a 100,000 sitting in his checking account or someone who has all new equipment but only has $1,000 in his checking account.


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## BB

It people like you that accept govt welfare and talk about how tough it is to make a buck. Buy your wife an 80k escalade esv farm trucks and after your done spending the publics money, tell us we can't hunt your land or we can for $$


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## blhunter3

BB said:


> It people like you that accept govt welfare and talk about how tough it is to make a buck. Buy your wife an 80k escalade esv farm trucks and after your done spending the publics money, tell us we can't hunt your land or we can for $$


Not every farmer has brand new anything, you do realize that right? We have no brand new equipment, tractors, combine, semi, or trailers, let alone a brand new pickup. So you think anyone should be able to go on land someone owes privately, pays the taxes on?


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## mulefarm

Really don't know how the subsidies work. Did check the county we hunt in and in 2010 the gov't paid out over 23 million. Noticed one couple collected over 126,000 and a lot were between 50-80 thousand. Maybe not everything new, but 2 of the ones we asked permission and were denied had new ranger boats that cost around 60 grand. It's their land and they can do what they want and don't like gov't to tell them what to do, but then don't turn around and except gov't money. Seems they want it both ways.


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## nebgoosehunter

Yes not everyone has new equipment. We have a Case IH 1440 combine and a JD 4430 tractor. Not new by any means. I'm in the Nebraska panhandle and with my work I'm out checking pivots across a three county area and I can tell you probably 75% of farmers have older equipment. Most sugar beet farmers have nicer equipment but there is money to be made in sugar beets most years. Most of the other guys with newer stuff have over 10 pivots and who knows how much dryland.


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## Plainsman

I have to keep reminding myself that not all farmers are wealthy. Not all farmers are unfriendly. There are a lot of good guy out there yet. I often post and chew on them myself, but not so much out of disrespect as trying to sound an alarm in the hope some of them will listen. I know there was a lot of hard feeling among hunters when CRP was posted. That lost some support for farmers. Hunters were offended that after paying their taxes and it went to those farmers they were met at the door and told no or pay to play. Hunters in the past have been the biggest supporters of farmers. More posted signs more anger, more anger more posted signs, more posted signs more anger, where does it end.
I'll give you an example of the type that bothers me. One I grew up with wanted us to pay the taxes on a section if we wanted to hunt it. It wasn't his. It was a neighbors who he said he would give $100 for each deer they took. He took deer then said he didn't. Then he hunts posted land of others without asking. When we talked to him he had a new boat, a new 5th wheel and a newly refurbished 1967 Camaro. My friend with me made about $40K a year. This guy whined about how you can't make it farming these days. Big hint, if your going to complain make sure the other guy makes more than you if you want sympathy. I know one guy right here in North Dakota with 8 2012 and 8 2013 Dodge Chargers. One in each color and in a huge garage. He complained to a guy that there was no money in farming. That guy works for $10 an hour.
Sorry for the rant, but my hopes are that some landowners can learn from my rant. I completely respect and believe what your telling me nebgoosehunter. I hope I have not offended you. Posts like mine can help or hurt, but if I explain myself and make it known it's not personal, and that I don't begrudge you a good living you will take it as I intend it. I have a friend who has maybe 50K acres and he doesn't splurge, show off or anything like that. As a matter of fact he nearly singlehandedly supports two missionaries in Thailand. His son passed away at only 43. He was a friend and neighbor. A month before he left this earth and headed home he asked me to take his teenage son bow hunting. Wealthy but humble. Great guy.
I wish I was better at this. I wish I could somehow find the words to admonish the arrogant while praising the down to earth good old boys.


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## BB

blhunter3 said:


> BB said:
> 
> 
> 
> It people like you that accept govt welfare and talk about how tough it is to make a buck. Buy your wife an 80k escalade esv farm trucks and after your done spending the publics money, tell us we can't hunt your land or we can for $$
> 
> 
> 
> So you think anyone should be able to go on land someone owes privately, pays the taxes on?
Click to expand...

No but I don't think when their farm (land) is subsidized by the general public that they should be able to charge money for people to access it. 
As far as welfare recipients letting people on, I wish there some decency in that I am able to farm this land (and vacation in Hawaii) along with making a good living because I fill out forms asking the general public for help from on everything from adding on to my income on good years, bailing my butt out on bad years, and insuring my business. I just wish there was more humility for everyone in this country who has their hand out. It sounds like your farms runs a bunch of rust buckets but I bet you have neighbors on welfare who are running crew can 2500hd denalis with every available option. No different than people today who are putting $7 pumpkin chai lattes double espressos on their ebt cards at Starbucks; it bothers me. Put your tail between your legs a little bit when you ask for help every yr.


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## blhunter3

BB said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BB said:
> 
> 
> 
> It people like you that accept govt welfare and talk about how tough it is to make a buck. Buy your wife an 80k escalade esv farm trucks and after your done spending the publics money, tell us we can't hunt your land or we can for $$
> 
> 
> 
> So you think anyone should be able to go on land someone owes privately, pays the taxes on?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No but I don't think when their farm (land) is subsidized by the general public that they should be able to charge money for people to access it.
> As far as welfare recipients letting people on, I wish there some decency in that I am able to farm this land (and vacation in Hawaii) along with making a good living because I fill out forms asking the general public for help from on everything from adding on to my income on good years, bailing my butt out on bad years, and insuring my business. I just wish there was more humility for everyone in this country who has their hand out. It sounds like your farms runs a bunch of rust buckets but I bet you have neighbors on welfare who are running crew can 2500hd denalis with every available option. No different than people today who are putting $7 pumpkin chai lattes double espressos on their ebt cards at Starbucks; it bothers me. Put your tail between your legs a little bit when you ask for help every yr.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess we farm with "rust buckets" oldest tractor we run is a 2003, and the newest is a 2008. We have never vacationed or anywhere we can drive to, as we start calving in January. The only people running around with new pickups are the ones who own most of the land they farm, and that just started when the crop prices were high. When the prices stay low that will stop. It would be no different if the company you worked for was doing well and they gave bigger and bigger bonuses. You would buy a new vehicle, maybe a bigger house. Farming is no different.


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## mulefarm

I know all businesses, including farming have good a bad years, and when you have a good year people tend to buy more. But how do the subsidies work? Like I stated before, one county had 23 million in 2010 and prices were decent. Can you have high commodity prices and still get substancial subsidies? With the subsidies, it would seem hard to not earn a decent living and in most cases, avoid failure.


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## BB

mulefarm said:


> I know all businesses, including farming have good a bad years, and when you have a good year people tend to buy more. But how do the subsidies work? Like I stated before, one county had 23 million in 2010 and prices were decent. Can you have high commodity prices and still get substancial subsidies? With the subsidies, it would seem hard to not earn a decent living and in most cases, avoid failure.


These guys take it every year. Win lose or draw. They just juggle things different.


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## blhunter3

mulefarm said:


> I know all businesses, including farming have good a bad years, and when you have a good year people tend to buy more. But how do the subsidies work? Like I stated before, one county had 23 million in 2010 and prices were decent. Can you have high commodity prices and still get substancial subsidies? With the subsidies, it would seem hard to not earn a decent living and in most cases, avoid failure.


Do you even know how the subsidies work?

http://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=38000

Do the math.


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## mulefarm

No, I said that in an earlier post. I'm hoping someone can give a brief overview on how they do work?


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## dakotashooter2

blhunter I never realized you had cattle.... My condolences.....

One has to understand that while their are some rich farmers a majority of those are rich ONLY on paper. Yes they have lots of land, new equipment and tons of toys.... but many of them don't OWN any of that stuff. The debt load on many of them is incredible and in many cases the only way to stay ahead of it is to become even more indebted. A few bad years and their "empire "will fall like a house of cards. Their advantage is that they can use their business to support their pleasure even if they are not really making any money. Land, even if not paid for, goes a long way in getting loans for other stuff. And in this day and age they never really have to worry about losing everything because bankruptcy bails you out. I don't have a huge issue with subsities except where it allows bad, inefficient farms to continue to farm. Mother Nature used to take care of that problem herself...........


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## nebgoosehunter

Plainsman- you didn't offend me at all. Just thought I would point out that not all farmers are rich.


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## Plainsman

nebgoosehunter said:


> Plainsman- you didn't offend me at all. Just thought I would point out that not all farmers are rich.


 :thumb:


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## blhunter3

dakotashooter2 said:


> blhunter I never realized you had cattle.... My condolences.....
> 
> One has to understand that while their are some rich farmers a majority of those are rich ONLY on paper. Yes they have lots of land, new equipment and tons of toys.... but many of them don't OWN any of that stuff. The debt load on many of them is incredible and in many cases the only way to stay ahead of it is to become even more indebted. A few bad years and their "empire "will fall like a house of cards. Their advantage is that they can use their business to support their pleasure even if they are not really making any money. Land, even if not paid for, goes a long way in getting loans for other stuff. And in this day and age they never really have to worry about losing everything because bankruptcy bails you out. I don't have a huge issue with subsities except where it allows bad, inefficient farms to continue to farm. Mother Nature used to take care of that problem herself...........


You hit the nail on the head. Lots of farmers have new equipment that is on a lease program. They don't much if any of it, except a small few. The new pickup and house and shops are all tax write offs (which anyone would take advantage of if they could). Lots of "fun" items are also tax write offs depending on if your a small business or Corporation. Example Ice houses for dry shacks, RV's for food delivery, shotguns to control black birds(and the shells), boats(take potential clients out or business parties), as bullcrap as those are, people are just taking advantage of the system.


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## mulefarm

In my business I don't receive subsidies or have insurance if something happens to my product. There is no income for me then. I might be missing something, but how do farm programs work? Looks like billions of dollars go to these programs?


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## BB

blhunter3 said:


> people are just taking advantage of the system.


Well put
I get the write off thing but don't need to have be profitable to need these write offs in the first place? If 5 of 6 farms in ND are on the government tit, it seems odd people are able to dump cash on everything from 20k ice houses to benellis.


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## blhunter3

BB said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> people are just taking advantage of the system.
> 
> 
> 
> Well put
> I get the write off thing but don't need to have be profitable to need these write offs in the first place? If 5 of 6 farms in ND are on the government tit, it seems odd people are able to dump cash on everything from 20k ice houses to benellis.
Click to expand...

It is crazy what you can write off even on your personal taxes, or if you own a small business. I will be the first to say that a lot of tax write offs are a joke. Just get rid of the IRS, but that is another story.


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## dedduc64

BLHunter has it right. The government has allowed the system to "work" and smart businessman have taken advantage of the rules that they are working under. There are rich farmers everywhere, as are there Doctors, Lawyers and Truck Drivers. They all manage their business to the best of there abilities. Don't blame them! You can't look at what they have in material items to determine wealth regardless of how they are obtained.


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## Plainsman

dedduc64 said:


> BLHunter has it right. The government has allowed the system to "work" and smart businessman have taken advantage of the rules that they are working under. There are rich farmers everywhere, as are there Doctors, Lawyers and Truck Drivers. They all manage their business to the best of there abilities. Don't blame them! You can't look at what they have in material items to determine wealth regardless of how they are obtained.


I agree with that too. If everyone else is doing it one would be foolish not to. I blame the government for trying to make everyone dependent on them. I blame ag organizations for taking the bait.


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## dakotashooter2

Getting back on track.... often you have to think outside of the box, be patient and willing to settle for less than a limit. As an example, small rivers are probably the most under hunted spots in ND. BUT..... the bird numbers are generally not big and you have to have the patience to wait a long time between birds. When I was younger I used to jump shoot a lot of small creeks adjacent to larger bodies of water and got plenty of action. Drainage ditches may also hold a few birds but it's often more like hunting upland game. Walk walk and walk some more.


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## JethroBodine

Hello again everybody! Thanks for everyones input. Sorry for my rant but a guy just gets so frustrated with the direction things are headed in these days. As far as where i was hunting it was south and southwest of Bismarck. I have been up to devils lake many of times and yes it is a zoo up there as well but that is to be expected..

Don't get me wrong i love hunting ducks and geese as much as my mind tells me to hang it u my heart wont let me. For me its not about the limit or the hero pic after the hunt. For me it is about doing my homework on the birds finding out the patterns and being able to convince the birds that the decoy spread i put out is real and getting those birds to commit nice and tight for efficient kill shots. I know everyone likes to hunt differently and hey to each's own! :thumb:

On the second to last day of our hunt we ended up getting on a nice cornfield. It was posted but we talked to the farmer and he was very nice and didnt have a problem hunting ducks and geese he however did not want us hunting pheasants which is totally understandable. I know there are many farmers who use this site and i respect all the hard work you guys do! I always make it a point to leave the field the same way it was before i hunted it (picking up shell casings, garbage not digging holes etc..)

I hope things will change in this sport because someday i will have kids and i hope they get the opportunity to hunt this great state and experience what most of us have. We need to think of the future and what we can do as individuals to keep the legacy of hunting alive and well in this state. I just want to extend a huge thank you to all of the farmers who allow us to hunt on your land. It is greatly appreciated.


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## blhunter3

DuckDawg said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DuckDawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> STOP the dam support prices and when it is no longer profitable they will stop planting. Let supply and demand work and stop taking tax dollars to support farmers.I haven't seen a poor farmer here in ND yet.
> 
> 
> 
> You have zero clue on how farming, commodity prices, and crop insurance work. You are so ignorant its not even funny. Its people like you that bash farmers, but yet ask us to hunt on our land.What is your definition of a poor farm? Someone who has all older equipment but has a 100,000 sitting in his checking account or someone who has all new equipment but only has $1,000 in his checking account.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Definition.....someone sitting on millions of dollars in land but yet has there hand out for a penny of tax dollars!
Click to expand...

I would venture to guess that most farmers only own less the 20-30% of the land the they. There is no way they are sitting on millions dollars of land.


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## Wulffhunter

You people who don't farm shouldn't act like they know what's going on. You don't even know how farming works. And usually the people with the newer equipment have figured it out and realize older equipment sucks because of lack of technology or the can just get more done with newer stuff


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## blhunter3

Wulffhunter said:


> You people who don't farm shouldn't act like they know what's going on. You don't even know how farming works. And usually the people with the newer equipment have figured it out and realize older equipment sucks because of lack of technology or the can just get more done with newer stuff


Swing and a miss. I agree with you on that people who don't understand farming, shouldn't open there mouth. But where you loose me is people with newer equipment. A 40 foot planter regardless of age can still get the same amount done.


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## Chuck Smith

BL... You are correct. But I am thinking what he meant is that the new equipment with GPS that you can switch the chip from planter, combine, etc. Makes a huge difference. Plus the newer equipment can give you bushel reports from the combine and what not.

But you are correct many people think that when a farmer is planting 1000 acres that they own most of it.... Nope they typically are paying rent. Many farmers only own the "home" farm where they store the equipment which varies in size from state to state and county to county. But lets just use 160 acres they own yet pay rent on rest. Now with rental prices at an all time high and corn prices dropping. Rent next year will need to drop or land wont be put into production. Some of the landlords need to take a hard look at this. Also some people were buying up land as an "investment" because rent prices were so high. Now they will be dropping and people won't be getting that return of investment. It could be interesting to see what happens if crop prices stay low.

I will get off my rant now.


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## 9manfan

Alot of rental land changing hands in this part of the state, but there always seems to be someone who will pay the high rent, not sure how they can make it profitable though....................


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## prairie hunter

What kind of price supports does Uncle Sam provide this year ?


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## blhunter3

Chuck Smith said:


> BL... You are correct. But I am thinking what he meant is that the new equipment with GPS that you can switch the chip from planter, combine, etc. Makes a huge difference. Plus the newer equipment can give you bushel reports from the combine and what not.
> 
> But you are correct many people think that when a farmer is planting 1000 acres that they own most of it.... Nope they typically are paying rent. Many farmers only own the "home" farm where they store the equipment which varies in size from state to state and county to county. But lets just use 160 acres they own yet pay rent on rest. Now with rental prices at an all time high and corn prices dropping. Rent next year will need to drop or land wont be put into production. Some of the landlords need to take a hard look at this.


I assumed that's what he meant, but there are a lot of non farmers on here. I'm not familiar with any auto steer other then GreenStar but there is no chips need, hook up the drill, planter, chisel plow, field cultivator etc, and it shows up on your monitor.

It is going to be intersting to see what happens when some land that the cash rent exceeds what you can make back.


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## blhunter3

prairie hunter said:


> What kind of price supports does Uncle Sam provide this year ?


PP payments or hail damage and that's about it.


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## Wulffhunter

blhunter3 said:


> Wulffhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> You people who don't farm shouldn't act like they know what's going on. You don't even know how farming works. And usually the people with the newer equipment have figured it out and realize older equipment sucks because of lack of technology or the can just get more done with newer stuff
> 
> 
> 
> Swing and a miss. I agree with you on that people who don't understand farming, shouldn't open there mouth. But where you loose me is people with newer equipment. A 40 foot planter regardless of age can still get the same amount done.
Click to expand...

Okay good point. I meant like tractors or combines. You can't tell me that a 2014 tractor is going to run the same efficiency as a 2001 model. And by newer technology I did mean bigger implements as well. And for all you guys that complain about "farm handouts," how much are you expecting back on your taxes? I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the individuals don't even pay income tax. So figure that 75% of the population doesn't pay into the income tax and every farmer does. Quit talking smack if its gonna come back and hit you square in the face.


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## Plainsman

> I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the individuals don't even pay income tax. So figure that 75% of the population doesn't pay into the income tax and every farmer does. Quit talking smack if its gonna come back and hit you square in the face.


I would say in this state it's just the opposite. Everyone I know on a salary has no tax shelter. I had a relative that typed up the taxes a local fellow did for farmers. They paid property tax, but little to no income tax. A relative had to run into town just before Christmas a few years ago and buy a new tractor and combine. I thought it was an odd time of year to buy. He said he had to do it before the 1st of the year or the G***&^ D^%$%^ government was going to get his money. Half a township and he pays no income tax. 
If your up on you politics you know that last election they did some statistics. About 51% nation wide are contributing, and 49% are on the government take. If that's right 2016 could be a real bad year. So are you going to vote American, or are you going to vote Hillary?


----------



## 9manfan

Plainsman said:


> So are you going to vote American, or are you going to vote Hillary?


Story I read awhile back................

I recently asked my friend's little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day. Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her, 'If you were President what would be the first thing you would do? '

She replied, 'I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people.'
Her parents beamed.

'Wow...what a worthy goal', I told her. 'But you don't have to wait until you're President to do that. You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my yard, and I'll pay you $50. Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house.'

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked, 'Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50?'

I said, 'Welcome to the Republican Party'.

Her parents still aren't speaking


----------



## riverrat47

I'm not getting into the farm subsidies debate, but Plainsman is correct in that it's about 50/50 on those paying taxes vs those on the public dole. 
Wuff,
As for getting a refund...I'd bet most people are like me. I pay in all year. At the end of the year, IF I've paid in more than I owe, I get a refund. It is nowhere near the amount I paid in throughout the year. If, and that's a big IF these last few years, I might get back 2-4% of what I've paid in-most years they want more.
Now, if you consider that being on the public dole, HAVE I GOT A DEAL FOR YOU! You, too, can be on the dole. Just send me $1000 per month for all of 2015, then, sometime in 2016, I'll send you a refund check for $1000. Now, according to your statement, you aren't paying any taxes...you got a refund! Want me to PM my address so you can get that check in the mail?


----------



## prairie hunter

Successful farmers like any business can reduce tax burdens by increasing expenses. In those big cash years (probably not this year on corn anyways) ... farmers are out buying new tractors, implements, pick ups, buildings, etc... Some farmers build a new home office. All this generates cash for the towns nearby - creating / sustaining jobs, etc....


----------



## tilley

Just imagine blhunter if you could receive a subsidy for each time you post on this website...you would be a billionaire!!
Hmmm...I wonder..and maybe another kickback for mowing over duck nests?? I think I see a pattern here.


----------



## blhunter3

tilley said:


> Just imagine blhunter if you could receive a subsidy for each time you post on this website...you would be a billionaire!!
> Hmmm...I wonder..and maybe another kickback for mowing over duck nests?? I think I see a pattern here.


Please tell me how I am suppose to avoid bird nests in ditches, alfalfa, and hay land?


----------



## blhunter3

Plainsman said:


> I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the individuals don't even pay income tax. So figure that 75% of the population doesn't pay into the income tax and every farmer does. Quit talking smack if its gonna come back and hit you square in the face.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say in this state it's just the opposite. Everyone I know on a salary has no tax shelter. I had a relative that typed up the taxes a local fellow did for farmers. They paid property tax, but little to no income tax. A relative had to run into town just before Christmas a few years ago and buy a new tractor and combine. I thought it was an odd time of year to buy. He said he had to do it before the 1st of the year or the G***&^ D^%$%^ government was going to get his money. Half a township and he pays no income tax.
> If your up on you politics you know that last election they did some statistics. About 51% nation wide are contributing, and 49% are on the government take. If that's right 2016 could be a real bad year. So are you going to vote American, or are you going to vote Hillary?
Click to expand...

Lots of times when farmers buy stuff before January its because sometimes you will either loose X amount of money to taxes, or if you spend that on equipment you don't have to loose that money to taxes. Again its playing the system. Everyone can do, plus who wants to pay more taxes?


----------



## Plainsman

blhunter3 said:


> Plainsman said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the individuals don't even pay income tax. So figure that 75% of the population doesn't pay into the income tax and every farmer does. Quit talking smack if its gonna come back and hit you square in the face.
> 
> 
> 
> I would say in this state it's just the opposite. Everyone I know on a salary has no tax shelter. I had a relative that typed up the taxes a local fellow did for farmers. They paid property tax, but little to no income tax. A relative had to run into town just before Christmas a few years ago and buy a new tractor and combine. I thought it was an odd time of year to buy. He said he had to do it before the 1st of the year or the G***&^ D^%$%^ government was going to get his money. Half a township and he pays no income tax.
> If your up on you politics you know that last election they did some statistics. About 51% nation wide are contributing, and 49% are on the government take. If that's right 2016 could be a real bad year. So are you going to vote American, or are you going to vote Hillary?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Lots of times when farmers buy stuff before January its because sometimes you will either loose X amount of money to taxes, or if you spend that on equipment you don't have to loose that money to taxes. Again its playing the system. Everyone can do, plus who wants to pay more taxes?
Click to expand...

I understand that and even though I think they are treated better than other business I would do it myself if I was farming. I don't like it, but I understand that if everyone else is doing it and I have to keep up then I would have no choice. One of the reasons I don't like it is because it looks like government is trying to make everyone dependent on them including farmers. It's just more obvious with farmers, but rest assured it's happening to everyone.


----------



## 6162rk

can you imagine what shape the country would be in if some of us didn't pay taxes? well were headed that way. we all have expenses but dont get to write them off. example being why arent my travel costs to and from work a legit expense. i dont have enough write offs to even claim charitable contributions. the system is broken. not enough paying their share but still reaping the harvest.


----------



## blhunter3

6162rk said:


> can you imagine what shape the country would be in if some of us didn't pay taxes? well were headed that way. we all have expenses but dont get to write them off. example being why arent my travel costs to and from work a legit expense. i dont have enough write offs to even claim charitable contributions. the system is broken. not enough paying their share but still reaping the harvest.


Probably the best reason to have a flat rate taxation system. 10% on everything bought, for everyone. 5% goes to the federal and 5% goes to the state, where the item was bought.


----------



## Plainsman

I think I like the plan that Bobm has posted on here in the past. It was.if I remember a 23% sales tax. That sounds steap until you look at all the taxes we pay and then it's actually a very significant reduction.
More and more the people on salary are getting sick of all the tax shelters and loopholes. I have compared my income tax to friends who farm, and when I was working I paid four to five times as much as people who made four to five times as much, and I'm talking net. This applies to many businesses not just farmers. If your American you should be contributing.


----------



## 6162rk

bl & plains i agree but it must apply equally to everyone. right now that plan has loopholes also. the two oldest professions in the world have been claiming forever they don't make any money. only one has a boss that keeps that profits and they don't pay taxes. the other uses loopholes to hide the profits so they don't pay income taxes.


----------



## blhunter3

6162rk said:


> bl & plains i agree but it must apply equally to everyone. right now that plan has loopholes also. the two oldest professions in the world have been claiming forever they don't make any money. only one has a boss that keeps that profits and they don't pay taxes. the other uses loopholes to hide the profits so they don't pay income taxes.


Get rid of the IRS and start over. Quit making the tax system so damn complicated. Make it simple. You buy a pop. 10% of the total price of that item.


----------



## 6162rk

blhunter3 said:


> 6162rk said:
> 
> 
> 
> bl & plains i agree but it must apply equally to everyone. right now that plan has loopholes also. the two oldest professions in the world have been claiming forever they don't make any money. only one has a boss that keeps that profits and they don't pay taxes. the other uses loopholes to hide the profits so they don't pay income taxes.
> 
> 
> 
> Get rid of the IRS and start over. Quit making the tax system so damn complicated. Make it simple. You buy a pop. 10% of the total price of that item.
Click to expand...

BL

so you agree the sales tax should apply to everyone? no excuses, no reasons, no loopholes.


----------



## blhunter3

6162rk said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6162rk said:
> 
> 
> 
> bl & plains i agree but it must apply equally to everyone. right now that plan has loopholes also. the two oldest professions in the world have been claiming forever they don't make any money. only one has a boss that keeps that profits and they don't pay taxes. the other uses loopholes to hide the profits so they don't pay income taxes.
> 
> 
> 
> Get rid of the IRS and start over. Quit making the tax system so damn complicated. Make it simple. You buy a pop. 10% of the total price of that item.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> BL
> 
> so you agree the sales tax should apply to everyone? no excuses, no reasons, no loopholes.
Click to expand...

YES. Our current tax system is so flawed its not even funny. Make the tax system so easy and simple.That way we can save money by scrapping the IRS, and when taxes are so low it won't even pay to try to get out of them.

I know its strange that a farmer would want to get rid of the loopholes are what not, but serious when about half of the country doesn't pay income taxes something is wrong.


----------



## prairie hunter

Then how do we pay for the commodity price supports ?

Is commodity crop insurance a self funded program ?


----------



## tilley

Please tell me how I am suppose to avoid bird nests in ditches, alfalfa, and hay land?
I thought you weren't supposed to mow ditches until after July 15..


----------



## snogeezmen

prairie hunter said:


> Then how do we pay for the commodity price supports ?
> 
> Is commodity crop insurance a self funded program ?


its like BL canrt answer the questions...he posts multiple times a day and now he cant answer a simple question. come on BL were waiting


----------



## blhunter3

snogeezmen said:


> prairie hunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Then how do we pay for the commodity price supports ?
> 
> Is commodity crop insurance a self funded program ?
> 
> 
> 
> its like BL canrt answer the questions...he posts multiple times a day and now he cant answer a simple question. come on BL were waiting
Click to expand...

Through your taxes.

No its not.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Snow... If you want to ***** about the crop insurance not being self funded... Try the health care law!!! Where do those subsidies come from that people are getting on their insurance in the exchanges??

Even though the crop insurance isn't self sufficient. They still do pay in for the insurance.


----------



## snogeezmen

Chuck Smith said:


> Snow... If you want to b#tch about the crop insurance not being self funded... Try the health care law!!! Where do those subsidies come from that people are getting on their insurance in the exchanges??
> 
> Even though the crop insurance isn't self sufficient. They still do pay in for the insurance.


charles, where did i *****?? i simply call BL out because when presented with a difficult ? he nevers answers it. i have yet to see his hundereds and hundreds of acres of goose depredation he *****es about and will never ever ever despite several requests provide pictures.........


----------



## blhunter3

snogeezmen said:


> Chuck Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Snow... If you want to b#tch about the crop insurance not being self funded... Try the health care law!!! Where do those subsidies come from that people are getting on their insurance in the exchanges??
> 
> Even though the crop insurance isn't self sufficient. They still do pay in for the insurance.
> 
> 
> 
> charles, where did i b#tch?? i simply call BL out because when presented with a difficult ? he nevers answers it. i have yet to see his hundereds and hundreds of acres of goose depredation he *****es about and will never ever ever despite several requests provide pictures.........
Click to expand...

Hardly had any goose depredation this year, last year was the bad year. Here is a pic of beaver depredation. Damaged about 3 acres.


----------



## dakotashooter2

Keep in mind that while all other insurances generally just cover actual losses, crop insurance often covers the potential loss. In other words if I own a store and it burns down the insurance covers the building and cost of the inventory, whereas if a crop is destroyed crop insurance doesn't just cover the costs associated with planting that field it covers or at least partially covers lost revenue............ It's and advantage (unfair ?) that most other businesses don't have or at least can't get at a subsidized rate..... I'm not blaming the farmers... They would be fools NOT to take advantage of it.............. Prior to crop insurance farmers often tried to spread out their land holdings to reduce the risk of loosing all their crops to one event........


----------



## Chuck Smith

Snow... Not saying you were [email protected]#$hing. But just pointing out an example that another insurance program got rammed down our throat. And many people think it is good. So I was just making a point if you or anyone is for Obamacare. They better not complain about subsidies to farmers.

Duck... I am not saying farmers should have a "free ride". I was pointing out irony for some people.

Also... I have see what geese have do to beans in august. If anyone hunts the early season go look at a bean field next to a roost that holds 10-20. You will see 3-5 acres of beans destroyed. Then if that farmer has 20 roost ponds on all of his land!!!


----------



## snogeezmen

i hunt early season more than most, ive seen what geese do to beans. for one single farmer to say he has "hundreds" of acres of damage is not accurate. plain and simple. lets get out and measure the damage and prove it to me.i will admit i am wrong when its proving. i have a yard that 2 acres and comparing most 'loss" to this its less. i have seen some big one not gonna argue there, but majority would be an acre or less. with the biggest ive seen at 7 acres tops.


----------



## TEALMAN

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/19/us-usa-grains-insurance-idUSKCN0J32FB20141119


----------



## snogeezmen

my point which is irrelevant to the topic and i understand that is BL *****es and moans more than most guys and wont back anything up with facts, pictures. it all opinion based information.

BL i had badger dig a hole in my ditch and the rabbits are destoying my lilacs do i qualify for subsidies?


----------



## blhunter3

snogeezmen said:


> my point which is irrelevant to the topic and i understand that is BL *****es and moans more than most guys and wont back anything up with facts, pictures. it all opinion based information.
> 
> BL i had badger dig a hole in my ditch and the rabbits are destoying my lilacs do i qualify for subsidies?


Nope.


----------



## Chuck Smith

Now we have taken this is off the topic by a long ways.... BUT:

Snow... Like I mentioned... you take a farmer that runs 2000 acres. They have ponds/water/roosts on those acres in every 1/4 section ( which is 160 acres). So you have 2-3 acres getting hammered every 160 acres. So that is about 50 acres. Now granted it isn't hundreds. But now add into the fact that the farmer could clear about $5 bushel on a good price beans. With 30 bushel per acres. So that is $150 per acre loss. That is $7500 that a farmer is losing because of geese. I know if I lost $7500 a year I would be ******!

Now again I am not saying the crop insurance program is correct or isnt broken. It could be improved... there is no question about that. Also what gets everybody up in arms is when you see millionaires that are not even active in farming get money... The Scottie Pippens, Movie Stars, etc. Also when I hear things like this coming from farmers mouths, "if you can't cheat the government out of $50,000 you aint a good farmer!!" and yes I have heard this from a farmers mouth.


----------



## Chuck Smith

> BL i had badger dig a hole in my ditch and the rabbits are destoying my lilacs do i qualify for subsidies?


Is your lively hood come from your ditch and lilacs???

Now in the small business world if you lively hood and income is effected by weather and natural occurances that you have no control over... YES YOU WILL GET MONEY FROM THE GOVERMENT.

Look at all the natural disasters that happen in area's. The government comes in and helps out. They will rebuild your building, they will help you with money until you get back going, etc. So to just say in is only farmers is false. But farmers are protected year round where as others need a disaster to happen.

And I know it also saves bad farmers. So if a farmer isn't good... they still get paid. Again another broken part of the program.


----------



## snogeezmen

Charles, you cont to miss my point. I could care less about farmers, insurance etc etc.

I simply cannot stand BL and his excuses. Dig up some past threads in regards to goose depredation. He's lazy, poor excuse for a farmer just like in every occupation there's lazy people. You cont to make it sound like I am anti farming. I voted No on measure 5. How about you? Quit making it something it is not. I simple cannot stand BL and he's not stop *****ing and moaning.

I don't know how to make it any more clear.

No I don't depend on my lilacs but if I did I wouldn't sit on my *** and ***** and moan nor expect handouts to cover it!


----------



## snogeezmen

Charles, BL

I will admit it when I am wrong please provide photo evidence of one single farmer with hundreds of acres of damage. Please....until then your falling on deaf ears


----------



## blhunter3

snogeezmen said:


> Charles, you cont to miss my point. I could care less about farmers, insurance etc etc.
> 
> I simply cannot stand BL and his excuses. Dig up some past threads in regards to goose depredation. He's lazy, poor excuse for a farmer just like in every occupation there's lazy people. You cont to make it sound like I am anti farming. I voted No on measure 5. How about you? Quit making it something it is not. I simple cannot stand BL and he's not stop b*tching and moaning.
> 
> I don't know how to make it any more clear.
> 
> No I don't depend on my lilacs but if I did I wouldn't sit on my a$$ and b#tch and moan nor expect handouts to cover it!


Goose depredation is a very tricky situation. One year is horrible and the next year or two there could be almost no damage. The bag of tools to prevent goose depredation is very limited and VERY time consuming. We have done everything we could legally do one year and still lost a lot of acres.


----------



## blhunter3

Yeah I guess I am a lazy farmer,helping run 140 cow calf pairs, with a little under 3000 acres. Start calving in around the 5th on January, all while selling fertilizer on the side, doing custom baling since the crop prices were going to be bad this fall, and doing some custom harvesting to help people get done with harvest.

I guess I am lazy when fencing our pastures so we can practice intense rotational grazing. I guess I am lazy when am making dugout in out pastures and putting duck nests in them. I guess I am lazy when I am snow blowing trails for the deer from the shelter belt to a few bales for them to eat so they don't eat our silage and ground hay, and have to walk a shorter distant to reach food when the snow is deep. I guess I am lazy when I am seeding CRP or grass in ditches to help with erosion and to slow the water speed down. I guess I am too lazy when I am seeding alfalfa in saline ground to try to get it productive again. I guess I am too lazy when I am seeding soybeans after the insurance cut off date sometimes into July in order to get a crop instead of taking PP payments. Or even seeding sorghum for halige instead of taking PP payments.

Yeah I guess I am just to lazy to do anything productive snogeezman.


----------



## blhunter3

DuckDawg said:


> Chuck Smith said:
> 
> 
> 
> Snow... Not saying you were [email protected]#$hing. But just pointing out an example that another insurance program got rammed down our throat. And many people think it is good. So I was just making a point if you or anyone is for Obamacare. They better not complain about subsidies to farmers.
> 
> Duck... I am not saying farmers should have a "free ride". I was pointing out irony for some people.
> 
> Also... I have see what geese have do to beans in august. If anyone hunts the early season go look at a bean field next to a roost that holds 10-20. You will see 3-5 acres of beans destroyed. Then if that farmer has 20 roost ponds on all of his land!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Don't even go there with me....if even one farmer wants to b#tch about geese and damage, PM me I put a hurt on them every year yet many farmers who b#tch about damage will not let you on to hunt. And.....before any farmer here tells me stories how hunters did this or that, I will give you the phone number of a farmer I deer hunt on his land. He will tell you how respectful I am, help him bale hay, and help many days with fences just as my way of saying thanks. Yes I have seen the damage they do, then let hunters on!
> 
> I personally am sick and tired of hand outs to anyone, be it Obama care or farm subsidies.
Click to expand...

And that is one thing I hate about certain farmers, ***** about the deer, but then they won't let anyone hunt, or ***** about the goose damage and won't let anyone hunt them.


----------



## snogeezmen

BL, i dont doubt you do any of that....but it seems real hard to listen to you when you that "BUSY" yet have time to post about goose depredation, people trespassing, ripping up sections lines, etc etc etc

actions speak a helluva lot louder than words young man and i hope you learn that some day

cuz as of right now your a punk azz young farmer who *****es and moans and posts on the internet about all his problems.

shut your mouth, do your work, and people will respect you a lot more.


----------



## snogeezmen

blhunter3 said:


> snogeezmen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Charles, you cont to miss my point. I could care less about farmers, insurance etc etc.
> 
> I simply cannot stand BL and his excuses. Dig up some past threads in regards to goose depredation. He's lazy, poor excuse for a farmer just like in every occupation there's lazy people. You cont to make it sound like I am anti farming. I voted No on measure 5. How about you? Quit making it something it is not. I simple cannot stand BL and he's not stop b*tching and moaning.
> 
> I don't know how to make it any more clear.
> 
> No I don't depend on my lilacs but if I did I wouldn't sit on my a$$ and b#tch and moan nor expect handouts to cover it!
> 
> 
> 
> Goose depredation is a very tricky situation. One year is horrible and the next year or two there could be almost no damage. The bag of tools to prevent goose depredation is very limited and VERY time consuming. We have done everything we could legally do one year and still lost a lot of acres.
Click to expand...

if your losing as much as you say it shouldnt matter how time consuming it is, you would be doing it,.....unless of course you expect a subsidie to cover it in which case i wouldnt do a dam thing either......


----------



## blhunter3

snogeezmen said:


> blhunter3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snogeezmen said:
> 
> 
> 
> Charles, you cont to miss my point. I could care less about farmers, insurance etc etc.
> 
> I simply cannot stand BL and his excuses. Dig up some past threads in regards to goose depredation. He's lazy, poor excuse for a farmer just like in every occupation there's lazy people. You cont to make it sound like I am anti farming. I voted No on measure 5. How about you? Quit making it something it is not. I simple cannot stand BL and he's not stop b*tching and moaning.
> 
> I don't know how to make it any more clear.
> 
> No I don't depend on my lilacs but if I did I wouldn't sit on my a$$ and b#tch and moan nor expect handouts to cover it!
> 
> 
> 
> Goose depredation is a very tricky situation. One year is horrible and the next year or two there could be almost no damage. The bag of tools to prevent goose depredation is very limited and VERY time consuming. We have done everything we could legally do one year and still lost a lot of acres.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> if your losing as much as you say it shouldnt matter how time consuming it is, you would be doing it,.....unless of course you expect a subsidie to cover it in which case i wouldnt do a dam thing either......
Click to expand...

We did do every thing legally we could do with VERY limited success, moving scare crows multiple times a day is very time consuming while spraying and haying. They get use to boomers pretty fast. When shooting them, they get use to that and stay out in the water. Please time me what else we can legally do?


----------



## blhunter3

snogeezmen said:


> BL, i dont doubt you do any of that....but it seems real hard to listen to you when you that "BUSY" yet have time to post about goose depredation, people trespassing, ripping up sections lines, etc etc etc
> 
> actions speak a helluva lot louder than words young man and i hope you learn that some day
> 
> cuz as of right now your a punk azz young farmer who *****es and moans and posts on the internet about all his problems.
> 
> shut your mouth, do your work, and people will respect you a lot more.


Autosteer plus smart phone equals some time on my hands. :roll:


----------



## aplon150

This thread makes me cringe. Lots of complaints about the lack of access (and yes I agree, I've never had such a hard time gaining access to land as I did this year) but your solution is to berate the landowners on this website that do chime in? This is why more land is posted every year, blatant disrespect for landowners. Whether its leaving trash in a field, rutting up an access road, or going online and telling farmers that the way they earn their living is immoral, it's all disrespectful and ruins hunting opportunities. You are the root of the problem you are complaining about.


----------



## tilley

BL , you forgot to include posting every day on multiple subjects 365 days a year in addition to your farm duties. Also mowing down duck nests and oh yes posting on this site. You are definitely not lazy as just your posting must consume many hours a day.
Farm and post every that's the way, what do you say.


----------



## blhunter3

tilley said:


> BL , you forgot to include posting every day on multiple subjects 365 days a year in addition to your farm duties. Also mowing down duck nests and oh yes posting on this site. You are definitely not lazy as just your posting must consume many hours a day.
> Farm and post every that's the way, what do you say.


You have never brought up a sure fire way to avoid birds nests while cutting hay.

You do realize that about 70% of my post total came from the baitpile right?


----------



## dakotashooter2

> Autosteer plus smart phone equals some time on my hands.


Please don't plow and Text.............................. :rollin: :rollin:


----------



## blhunter3

dakotashooter2 said:


> Autosteer plus smart phone equals some time on my hands.
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't plow and Text.............................. :rollin: :rollin:
Click to expand...

No plowing on my farm... Either no till or minimum till, just disking sloughs!


----------



## tilley

Plow and text, mow and text, combine and text, disc ant text, fertilize and text, etc, etc, BL can handle it all. oke:


----------



## dakotashooter2

That is what they all say they look back and notice the disc just pulled up a 1/2 mile of fence............................ oke:


----------



## Habitat Hugger

As a city slicker but ex farm boy and farmer/rancher helper outer wannabe, I enjoy BL's posts. i rarely agree with anyone's posts 100% but if every farmer/rancher were like BL things would definitely be better for hunters in the field. There's always more than two sides to every coin! 
In some ways I agree that any rancher who complains about wildlife depredation should be forced to allow hunters or no govt help, but being retired and spending a lot of time helping my rancher friends and observing what they have to put up during hunting seasons, I can sure see their point! Unless Sportsmen realize that slob sportsmen are our own worst enemy I doubt much will change. 
Where I hunt the local landowners have never seen a fall as bad as this one! Many deer shot off the main road, several left, a fence cut, and EVERY county road sign shotgunned for 5 miles! Yes, This was reported and several lawbreakers caught, one with a deer decoy, but like every Rancher down there says, it just gets worse every year! And because of the time I spend down there every year, spring through fall, I agree with them! 
But because of so many complaints, the game warden in the area, sometimes three of them working together, was constantly overworked and can't be everywhere at once. We self labelled Sportsmen are too often a huge pain in the butt to landowners! 
Small wonder so many hate us honest ethical hunters! 
In Hunter ed we try teach the kids ethics, respect for landowners and laws, then when I see miles of road signs shotgunned, I just feel sick and think "what,s the use?"


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## Plainsman

I think oil brought a lot of that in. I didn't move around much this year, but last year there were a number of Texas license plates with hunters in our area and that's a long ways east. When I see road signs shot up etc I always remind myself these are not sportsmen they are vandals with guns. I have also noticed it happens most often in summer, not during the hunting season.


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## mulefarm

I would guess that most of this is done by residents?


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## Habitat Hugger

I'm sure that 99.9% of this vandalism is done by residents. It's really rare to see an out of states late around here in the deer season.
I'm sure these slobs draw a deer tag, head out from Bismarck, maybe have a few brews or simply get bored and want to shoot off some guns, and vandalize anything and everything that they happen across! Pretty depressing..........
A bunch of landowners in the area I hunt all complained to the local game warden who put up,a deer decoy, caught a guy and his son the first hour or so. They had an untapped deer in their pickup, loaded guns in their pickup, shooting on private property and some other things........about a $2000+ fines assuming some attorney doesn't get them off for " entrapment!" No hunting license for a year or two, hopefully forever........
I've heard it a hundred times on outdoor websites " these lawbreakers aren't hunters, they Are just vandals with guns!" Vandals definitely, but hunting season brings them out,,and I'd bet they all have tags and licenses, etc. we responsible hunters should do a better job of turning them in. So to say they are not " hunters" IMO is just plain stupid! Or like de River in Egypt.....DE NILE!
Trying to say they are all out of staters is even WORSE DENIAL! 
We ll ought to come down in them HARD! Everyone has a cell. Phone nowadays, and every cellphone has a billion pixel camera on it, so we all should be willing to call the G and F and go to court and testify if necessary......


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## Plainsman

HH I think much of the hunting on posted land is non residents. I think much of the vandalism is locals. Unfortunately the younger crowd just wants to kill something or at least shoot something. I wish there were more shooting ranges to blow of steam. Unfortunately there are a bunch out there right now that have a screwed up brain and think they are Rambo. A fellow here in Jamestown was on the local range and a group of about six guys started shooting the target next to him. When he complained the guy stuck a handgun in his face. I asked if he called the Sheriff. I guess he did, but he was so flustered he didn't think to get the license plate. Your right about some of those things, but the non residents do their share too. I have seen it. Yes, I have three of the game wardens in my phone. I also carry a small camera and take pictures complete with license plate. Camera goes digital to 60X.


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## blhunter3

Its really fun combining corn (I'm a semi driver) during deer season, and vehicles circle the area your working waiting for deer to run out. All I can think about is a stray bullet hitting me or a vehicle causing a death or serious injury. There are too many SOB's out shooting not hunting anymore. People post more land because they don't want to deal with issues, resulting in more SOB's resulting in more dumba$$es. Its a horrible cycle that won't end soon.


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## dakotashooter2

Sadly because of access issues a lot of deer hunters have become "road hunters". Access has almost become the hardest part of the hunt. it used to be you could knock on a couple of doors and usually gain access now sometimes it takes knocking on a couple dozen doors...... If your not in the farming industry it's often hard to find a connection that will allow you to hunt. The commercialization of hunting has also made access harder. Many landowners are reluctant to allow anyone on their property because they are afraid they will shoot or scare off "their" trophy buck ( and the potential ones for the next 5 years). Some will post a barren field if their is a 1/1000 chance that a deer will even cross it.

It's hard.... About 95% of the land I have hunted for the last 35 years is either no longer available to me or has limited access. A lot of that land was my second home.... It feels like someone kicked me out of my house...............And I'm sure I am not the only one that feels this way.


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## Plainsman

> A lot of that land was my second home.... It feels like someone kicked me out of my house...............And I'm sure I am not the only one that feels this way.


Your not the only one. I had a good friend north of town that I visited often while hunting, or just stopped in sometimes. His kid never came to the kitchen where we enjoyed coffee and cookies. The kid sat in the living room watching cartoons. I never stopped there when the kid wasn't glued to the tv. I'm 66 years old and this was 30 years ago. 
The older fellow passed away 20 years ago. When I stopped by and the young cartoon fellow was now farming he had no idea who I was. I visited with his father from the time he was born until he was a teenager, but he never showed his face and he had no idea who I was. Now whoever has the most booze in their trunk gets to hunt.
Oh well I have more access than I can hunt in five years. I didn't need more land to hunt, I just miss the old fellow and find it sad that cartoon boy never came to the kitchen and sells out so cheap.


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## dakotashooter2

Yup... most of the land is being passed on to the video warriors and their buddies............... who don't really appreciate what they have..........


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## snogeezmen

aplon150 said:


> This thread makes me cringe. Lots of complaints about the lack of access (and yes I agree, I've never had such a hard time gaining access to land as I did this year) but your solution is to berate the landowners on this website that do chime in? This is why more land is posted every year, blatant disrespect for landowners. Whether its leaving trash in a field, rutting up an access road, or going online and telling farmers that the way they earn their living is immoral, it's all disrespectful and ruins hunting opportunities. You are the root of the problem you are complaining about.


do you write for the local paper? boy you twist words.

i never called BL immoral and will never preach ethics on anyone, i am not the Good Lord.

I called him "lazy" thats my opinion, i am entilted to my opinion. you are entitled to yours.

i have zero issues with access, sorry to hear about yours.

cant say that i am worried BL wont let me on his land to hunt. I do hope this state goes "considered Posted" as the guys who arent afrid to knock on doors, or who have made relations in the past will be okay. again this is my opinion but please twist it how you seem fit


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## fieldgeneral

What a worthless thread.


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