# .223 for 8 yr old hunting dear?



## Arkie

Just bought a .223 for my eight year old boy. I plan on him using it next year for dear season. He is a pretty salty shooter but larger calibers he has a problem with the re-coil. On our property there are no shots longer than 75-100yds max. Just need some advise on ammo choice and shot placement. ie head or heart/lung shot. Thank you


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## bryan_huber

id go with the barnes triple shock. its probably the best choice of bullet for a 223. 223 is a lil underpowered to take a deer but it can do it.


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## Arkie

Thanks for the info Bryan. New to this forum and for that matter im new to the .223 but my kid is dying to kill his first deer. I realize it is a bit small of a caliber but I will be backing him up with an .06 just in case.


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## Lone Elk Hunter

the .223 is not under powered to kill a deer it is a good round that can do some damage with the right load

go with 55 gr. Supreme Ballistic Silvertips you will have enough power to knock it down or drop it within 70 yards all about shot placement go for your 11inch kill zone on whitetail it will drop trust me


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## Arkie

GOD Bless You LEH....This is not my gun of choice but, I picked it up used and cheap (great gun for my son). I have more than enough time to practice honing in on his kill shot with him. I hope no one thinks this is a question of if it is good enough or not. That is where skill comes into play.....Skill is still part of hunting isnt it. My question is making sure he kills it the best way possible.

Again,thank you LEH


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## Lone Elk Hunter

ya i here that i only use my .223 for coyote kills at night but i have have done my work on all rounds

seeing .223 is not made in a xp3 tip you will need to go with 3rd best tip in my book the ballistic granted it aint no 243 but the effect will be the same for your boy "deer in the locker" any where in your kill zone on WT it will drop with the expanding ballistic if he mucks the shot by hiting it in the gut your deer will eventually bleed out from the nice size wound it will leave on the deer so supreme's are your way to go with a .223


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## bryan_huber

long elk hunter- ballistic silvertips for the 223 are varmint ONLY ballistic tips. a friend shot a deer with that bullet and it it exploded when it hit the skin. didnt even penetrate the hide. so that is the WORST bullet you could use. if youre not going to use a triple shock. use a soft point and definately not a varmint bullet like a ballistic silvertip or vmax.


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## Arkie

When to several gun stores and i cant find the triple shocks. (any ideas where to find it? This is Arkansas....) Went and shot a few rounds on saturday. this gun was spot on every time for my son... How about some input on round choices


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## bowhunter199

go with the 55gr. hornady red tips


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## bryan_huber

hornady red tips are varmint rounds. they are made to fragment on contact of the first hair. once again someone who doesnt know about the bullets they use.


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## Bernie P.

Sorry but IMO any .22 cal is just to light.A .243 has very little recoil and would be a superior choice.Any kid can handle it and there's far less chance of the deer suffering a slow painful death.


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## huntin1

I would recommend looking at the Federal Premium line, look for the 60 gr NP loading, that is a Nosler Partition and will work.

I don't think the Barnes TSX is being loaded in factory ammo in .223. I could be wrong. Black Hills was going toload it in their Black Hills Gold line of ammo, you could give them a call, just google Black Hills ammo.

If you can reload I'd go with the Barnes TSX either 62 or 70 grain.

The ballistic tips and v-max's in 223 are varmint bullets and not really intended for deer.

The 223 will work well for deer with the right type of bullet.

huntin1


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## bryan_huber

i found on midway that the triple shock is loaded by corbon in 53gr and 62gr. http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.e ... mid=564348 is the link. if youre curious as to the performance of this bullet go to http://www.federalpremium.com/products.aspx up towards the top of the page in red, watch "the bullet breakdown" that will show you how that bullet out kills. The nosler partition will do a good job too. but the tsx(triple shock x bullet) is alot more forgiving as it will punch through bone. for more info on the bullet also check out barnesbullets.com

as far as selecting the bullet- check your twist rate, if you use the 62gr bullet you should have a slightly faster twist rate 1:9 twist. the 53 will shoot just fine in a 1:12 twist as well as the 10,9, and 8 twist. im shooting 50 vmax's out of my 1:8 twist tikka.

i thought i found another manufacturer that used the tsx in factory loads. if your kid can handle a 243 you can get a much wider range of bullet selection from 55gr pills up to 109gr match hollow points.


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## huntin1

I forgot about Cor-bon loading TSX's, good find. That would be your best bet for a deer round in the .223.

I agree that the 243 would be better, but if the .223 is what you have it will work just fine.

huntin1


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## bryan_huber

i ran some figures. if you were to load the tsx yourself for your 223, it would take shy of 400 rounds of handloaded tsx's to break even on a RCBS reloading press (excluding your time). I shoot some 55gr nosler ballistic tips out of my 243 and just off of reloading those it paid for itself within 4 months. and shy or 300 rounds. after that it makes hunting pretty cheap. right now hornady sells 55gr soft points for 32/50rd and i was kicking them out 11.85/50rd. i was punching 5 shot groups outside to outside just shy of 1/2". took a few test loads to get there but once i was there i loaded quite a few.


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## confusedsoul

Hornady Interbonds should do nicely as well.


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## confusedsoul

bryan_huber said:


> hornady red tips are varmint rounds. they are made to fragment on contact of the first hair. once again someone who doesnt know about the bullets they use.


Hornady SST bullets are not 'Varmint' bullets. But they are red tipped. They were bullets designed with the boiler room in mind. The Hornady Interbond bullet was designed for better penetration through bone. An SST will hold up just fine out of a .223 at 100 yds. Just don't try and take out the shoulder with it.


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## bryan_huber

confusedsoul- obviously you dont know very much. sst's are not made in a 22 cal. the only "red tip" bullet by hornady in 22 cal is the vmax and the amax and neither are for medium game hunting. sst's are made in 6mm on up.


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## szm69

I have had good luck with Nosler partitions.


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## Plainsman

Arkie, I'll throw my two cents in here. I have killed a few deer with the 52 gr X bullet. Shoulder is not going to stop the X bullet even in the 22 caliber. As has been mentioned go with the 52 gr as the heavy bullets are long for caliber. 
Nothing wrong with some of the soft points, but as has also been pointed out stay away from the varmint bullets. 
I have done head shots when deer are sleeping, or I am sure they are not about to move. The head moves around a lot and your safer going for heart and lung area. Use one of the good bullets and put it in the same spot you would go for with your rifle. 
Good luck to you and your son.

Oh, what is the acreage of the area you hunt? If it's small I would go with the partition bullet. Even in the larger calibers I have had deer run some when hit with the X bullet. It penetrates so well that it doesn't impart all it's energy in the same manner a soft point does. If your shooting in something as small as 40 acres use the Nosler Partition. If you have more room use the X bullet. They may run a short distance with the X, but it's a devastating bullet and does it's job.


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## Burly1

I'll second (or maybe third or fourth) the 60 grain Nosler Partition. Their performance has been completely reliable in every cartridge I have tried. Thank you for taking the time and effort to start your son out with a rifle/cartridge combination that will be very reliable on deer. Many do not and suffer a disappointing first hunt. Good on ya Arkie.
Burl


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## szm69

One more thing. If you don't reload, I am pretty sure Black Hills Ammo loads 60 gr Partitions in .223.

Just thought you would like to know.


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## buckseye

It will probably be OK as long as he doesn't hit you in the vitals. :beer:


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## Arkie

First, Thanks to all for the great advise. Brian thank for the links, they helped out alot...It seems the Triple shock and the Nosler are similar, Nosler expands quicker I see. and Triple shock does more damage on bone and tissue.

Hey plainsman we own about 80 acres on top of a mountain. we are so far out that I swear you can hear the banjo on the other side of the mountain. No pressure hunting..opening weekend we saw about 21 deer on the property.


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## Arkie

I forgot to ask, is Federal my best bet on round selection?


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## szm69

Black Hills Ammo is another ammo choice


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## Arkie

WOW!!!!! Just getting back to being on-line again. We have had one heck of an ICE STORM!!! Thanks for all the advise, I just found out that I can get a 243 or 270 barrel for my son's rifle pretty cheap. Going to try him out with the 243 barrel, I think........Still the same advise on round selection (triple shock or nosler) ?


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## crosshunt

a 243 would be about perfect. i just got one for my wife that way she can go deer hunting with it and theres not that much of a recoil at all, but a 270 may be to much for your 8yr old son. i have seen plenty of deer taken with a 223... IF you have the right ammo and make a good shot but at 75 to 100yards you shouldnt have any problem. alot of people start there kids off dear hunting with a 223, but a 243 could be something that he would still use way after he starts growing up into bigger guns.

as for ammo for a 223 i cant really help you there because i havent personally deer hunted with that before... but for a 243 winchester supreme elite xp3 is an excellent deer hunting round, a little expensive but awsome.


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## bryan_huber

for your son id go with the federal 80 grain soft points. a soft point is a fine round thatll shoot fine out to 200 just fine. 100 grainer might be a little too much kick for him. xp3's are just plain spendy so i avoid them. a ballistic tip will out shoot a soft point but not by much at closer ranges like 100-150. they show a difference at further ranges 3-500 yards where you are not very likely to take a deer with a 243.


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## nehusk12

I want everyone on hear to explain why is it that a .22 kills a dear just fine and a .223 doesn't. Deer are pretty week a 22 or .17 in the lungs at 70 yards and their done.


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## Arkie

Hope these come thru. nehusk12 *I* can kill a deer with a dart, That is not the question. I'm just trying to find the best rifle and round for an 8 yr old boy.

Again, Thanks to bryan huber and crosshunt I am currently looking into both of your suggestions.


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## texasdeerhunter

get 55gr hornady v-max and tell your son to go for the neck, they're just like ballistic silvertips but even better. more accurate, bigger hole, more knock down powwer. if hes not comfortabe going for the neck then go for a reg heart/lung shot, but it might not go all the way through,even if it doesent go through it will still drop him no problame.


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## bearhunter

texas deer hunter, i think that is terrible advice. yes a neck shot will kill deer with this load, but not always. the nosler partision ans tsx are the best choice and aim only for the heart lung region. some of these post reflect the very reason all but the most disiplined shooters should never attaempt a .22 cal for deer..northern deer are quite a bit larger than deer down south.


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## texasdeerhunter

bear hunter i use custom 80 grain bullets and yes the partition is great for it and i use the partition but i just like my custom v-max better.also i overlap bullets at 300 yards im very good at shooting and almost never miss only missed once in my life on a giant buck, and later we found my scope needed to be re sighted. i only recomended 55gr bullets because some people don't like to hand load and that is the biggest you can buy that particular bullet in 40-55.by the way bearhunter, a neck shot with this load will ALLWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!kill a deer and don't you let anybody tell you different, this load will blast a hole strait through the neck of a white tail deer.


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## Arkie

WOW! I love this thread. I have been able to equip my son, but I am still fine tuning his skills. I love the advise. Please keep it comming. By the way you are helping a novic hunter not a skilled hunter, MY son and I only get better with your advise. For that I thank you all.


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## crosshunt

so what did you end up getting him arkie?!...

and for texasdeerhunter, you have to remeber that you are giving advice for a 8yr old boy. the best and esiest shot would be right in the chest heart/lung area. and i was reading another post where a guy said he shot a buck in the neck and the bullet went clear through and when he was walking up to the deer, the deer took off. ive never shot a deer in the neck, never tried, and probably never will so i dont have any first hand experience in that.

but it is very surprising how tough deer are, there have been numerous deer that when ive feild dressed, the heart has been in 3 or 4 seperate peices from the bullet going straight through it and the deer can still run 50-75 yds.


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## Arkie

crosshunt, I bought him a used .223 single shot NE rifle. I called the factory and you can send in the receiver and they will fit it with a .243 or larger caliber for about $100. Here in another month I plan on sending it off.


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## Mannlicher

Arkie, I am going to be using my Bushmaster XM15-E2S this coming season. I have worked up a load using the Winchester 64 grain SP over 24 grains of H335.
It kills hogs pretty dead, so I feel it will do the job on a Florida Whitetail.


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## Arkie

What to do now???? I was going to send off my son's current receiver to be fitted with a 243 barrel, but the receiver will be altered to match the new barrel and his old barrel (223) will be worthless. Should I let him hunt with a gun he feels comfortable with (the 223), or should I get him a 243 before deer season starts? (He and I both want him to get his first deer pretty bad)?


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## bearhunter

.243


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## Arkie

243 ammo is a lot harder to find for me vs 223. Still not to sure about the pros and cons bearhunter.


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## Plainsman

Arkie said:


> What to do now???? I was going to send off my son's current receiver to be fitted with a 243 barrel, but the receiver will be altered to match the new barrel and his old barrel (223) will be worthless. Should I let him hunt with a gun he feels comfortable with (the 223), or should I get him a 243 before deer season starts? (He and I both want him to get his first deer pretty bad)?


Call again and talk to someone else at New England Arms. I know a fellow with four barrels for his Harrington and Richards and uses them all. I thought they fit each barrel to match the receiver. It wouldn't make sense at all to mess with the receiver. 
I have a 357 mag in H&R and two of my sons have the NEF in 223.


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## crosshunt

i really favor the 243. but i know what you mean by him not being comfortable with another gun but you still have plenty of time to get him comfortable with it. but thats your judment call, if he is hunting with a gun that he is not comfortable with then it will be useless. but i think a 243 will suite for a lot better deer rifle than a 223.

when i was a kid first starting to hunt, my first gun was a 20ga and later on i got a 410 and i was afraid to shoot the 410 even though it kicked a lot less but just because it was a new gun and i wasnt use to it. so i think that he will be good at shooting any gun as long as he gets plenty of practice with that gun. but i think a 243 kicks close to a 410 shotgun so if you have or know someone that has a 410 or something then have him shoot it to see if he can handle it.

pros of 243: 1) a 243 is going to have a lot more nock down power and youll be able to get a lot larger grain bullet then you would for a 223. 2) a 223 loses alot of energy once you start shooting further shots. 3) with a 223 you will have to place your shot very carefully where with a 243 it will allow for a little more mistake. 4) he will not grow out of the 243 for it will always be a good deer rifle.

cons of 243: like you said you may not be able to find ammo as easy, but where im at ive never had any problem finding 243 ammo.

OR HOPEFULLY, plainsman is right and you can get it fitted for a 243 without messing with the reciever.


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## Joe Green

.223 is on the small end of calibers used for hunting deer but they work great! I would be careful about hitting the shoulder though and wouldn't expect to drop a deer doing so, but a neck or shot right behind the shoulder would easily do the trick! we get our .223 ammo from B&K but I have seen it at Wal-mart not sure on the variety they have. assuming you're using a semi automatic as well, if a second shot is needed which it shouldn't be, it will be quite easy to do with the low recoil in consideration.


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## Arkie

Thanks Plainsman. I will call them back tomorrow.

*Just a news flash in case no one knows*. To my understanding wal-mart will *no longer* be a supplier of guns or ammo and soon will be getting rid of current inventory (please, check this out for yourself). I was told that the new CEO does not support blood sports, _again check this out for yourself_. Not to mention Sportsmans Warehouse just closed its stores. I cant seem to find ammo anymore. Anyone have experience with mail-order ammo?


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## huntin1

Arkie said:


> What to do now???? I was going to send off my son's current receiver to be fitted with a 243 barrel, but the receiver will be altered to match the new barrel and his old barrel (223) will be worthless. Should I let him hunt with a gun he feels comfortable with (the 223), or should I get him a 243 before deer season starts? (He and I both want him to get his first deer pretty bad)?


Like plainsman, I don't understand this one. I had a NEF single shot with a heavy barrel .223, sent the reciever in and got a 45-70 barrel set up for it. It worked with either barrel. From what I recall they alter the barrel to match your reciever.

huntin1


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## Arkie

I'm checking tomorrow morning again with them to make sure I'm not mistaken. Thanks for the advise, I wasnt going to call them back, but now I am.


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## younghunter1014

if i were u id get my son a .243 it has a little more kick that a .223 but a enough knock down power to kill a deer at over 100 yards and drop it and it was my firt gun and im 21 now. and i still kill all my deer wit it :sniper:


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## 308

all my pap ever used to use was a 222 with 50gr. soft points


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## Arkie

Thanks younghunter, I will be upgrading his rifle on monday....Thanks Plainsman and huntin1, you guys were right.......


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## Andrew Bremseth

younghunter1014 said:


> if i were u id get my son a .243 it has a little more kick that a .223 but a enough knock down power to kill a deer at over 100 yards and drop it and it was my firt gun and im 21 now. and i still kill all my deer wit it :sniper:


You said you were 13 in another thread on the same day.......... :eyeroll:


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## Arkie

Thank You, Andrew.


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## bigpipesT

Plainsman said:


> Arkie, I'll throw my two cents in here. I have killed a few deer with the 52 gr X bullet. Shoulder is not going to stop the X bullet even in the 22 caliber. As has been mentioned go with the 52 gr as the heavy bullets are long for caliber.
> Nothing wrong with some of the soft points, but as has also been pointed out stay away from the varmint bullets.
> I have done head shots when deer are sleeping, or I am sure they are not about to move. The head moves around a lot and your safer going for heart and lung area. Use one of the good bullets and put it in the same spot you would go for with your rifle.
> Good luck to you and your son.
> 
> Oh, what is the acreage of the area you hunt? If it's small I would go with the partition bullet. Even in the larger calibers I have had deer run some when hit with the X bullet. It penetrates so well that it doesn't impart all it's energy in the same manner a soft point does. If your shooting in something as small as 40 acres use the Nosler Partition. If you have more room use the X bullet. They may run a short distance with the X, but it's a devastating bullet and does it's job.


how is that even fun shootin a dear in the head while its sleepin? i dont even understand the point.


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## bigpipesT

younghunter1014 said:


> if i were u id get my son a .243 it has a little more kick that a .223 but a enough knock down power to kill a deer at over 100 yards and drop it and it was my firt gun and im 21 now. and i still kill all my deer wit it :sniper:


u made yerself look bad man.... :eyeroll:


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## alleyyooper

On a different thread he said he was 22.
But what do you expect from a down river town.
so close to Detorit you could spit and hit both.

 Al


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## bigpipesT

:lol: :lol: yessir. idk why people come on these things and are to dumb to keep their lies strait.


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## Arkie

he speek with forked tounge.


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## bigpipesT

Arkie said:


> he speek with forked tounge.


what?


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## alleyyooper

Injan speek for a liar.

 Al


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## Arkie

Thanks alleyyooper. I dont like lying. ie YH1014[/quote]


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## bigpipesT

oh i got ya.


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## Arkie

Whats the deal? I cant find any 243 rounds worth a flip for hunting. Are the ammo suppliers focused on other types of rounds?


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## bearhunter

all ammo is in short suppy. keep looking, be patient. good luck and good pick with the .243


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## Arkie

Please answer this for me. How is it that a 223 NATO round is ok to kill a person, but not for a dear?


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## People

If you do your part the 223 or 5.56 will easily take a deer down. Back when I was in the USMC I shot plenty of deer with M855 and M856. Granted there are far better bullets then standard ball that can be used for hunting.

Deer do not require a belted mag to be killed. If you are a poor shot the more power you have will only give you some room for slop. Granted no amount of power will allow a hunter to just shoot where ever. I used to have a 50BMG I shot a few deer with and my M1 with 150gr SP did far more damage. The 50 did allow me to make hard hits at extended ranges.

There is in fact an "I" in Norris, but there is no "team"&#8230; not even close.


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## bearhunter

it will kill a deer but the .243 will kill it better :lol:


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## People

bearhunter how is a deer shot with a 223 less dead than a 243?


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## bearhunter

i knew someone would bite on that one :homer:


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## Arkie

> I used to have a 50BMG I shot a few deer
> quote]
> 
> A 50BMG!


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