# Bird pick-up problems



## The Canuck Kid (Mar 18, 2009)

Hello
I found a dead seagull in one of our planted fields, I think it was hit by the tractor while planting. Any way I went to get my dog to see if she would pick it up but she wouldn't. I would give the command but she would just sniff it and come back to me without it. She has no problems with ducks. 
Is this because the seagull has a different smell? The seagull didn't look bad or anything and was probably killed that day. My dog has been on the decoy all spring and has not seen a real bird since the fall, could it be because she is out of practice?

Thanks


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## fetchingfloyd (May 12, 2009)

could be a couple of things. if the bird was at all old or decaying at all the dog might not want to pick it up. also, sometimes with a young dog they dont want to pick up an unfamiliar bird, especially if it is just laying there and wasnt thrown for a retrieve. if you are concerned about it there are things that can be done with the dog to teach it to pick up anybird but if this is an isolated incident i wouldnt worry about it too much


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## The Canuck Kid (Mar 18, 2009)

fetchingfloyd said:


> could be a couple of things. if the bird was at all old or decaying at all the dog might not want to pick it up. also, sometimes with a young dog they dont want to pick up an unfamiliar bird, especially if it is just laying there and wasnt thrown for a retrieve. if you are concerned about it there are things that can be done with the dog to teach it to pick up anybird but if this is an isolated incident i wouldnt worry about it too much


The bird wasn't decaying I checked it before I let the dog go. I am on the concerned side, because what if this same behavior happens in the fall with ducks. Do you know of things that can be done with the dog to teach it to pick it up?


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

The Canuck Kid said:


> Do you know of things that can be done with the dog to teach it to pick it up?


Need to know a little more before that question can be answered. How old is your dog? How far in training? Has you dog been Forced?



The Canuck Kid said:


> I am on the concerned side, because what if this same behavior happens in the fall with ducks.


A seagull and a duck are two completly different things. Personally I would not worry about the pup not picking up a seagull. One should not transfer into another.


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## Slimpickins (Jun 9, 2009)

If your dog was properly force fetched it should pick up its own poop.


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## fetchingfloyd (May 12, 2009)

the dog would need to be force fetched then. the age of the dog and the training level of the dog goes into consideration on when to force fetch. i would recommend having a pro do it for you if you are not 150% comfortable about doing it yourself.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

As has been asked, has your dog been FF? If not, this illustrates the peril of not force fetching, that being the dog deciding when & what it picks up & holds, and you not having a tool to correct it...

Also has been stated, a properly FF dog generally picks up anything you tell it to. I say generally as in my experience sometimes even a FF dog but most often a relatively newly FF pup, will be hesitant with a bird that is completely outside it's realm of experience. I have had this happen when using cull chickens & guineas from our poultry flock for training.

However, this is something to be taken advantage of. What I was taught in my formative years as trainer is this is a "trainable moment", an unplanned & sponteneous opportunity to reinforce a previously trained task. In this case, the "fetch" & "hold" command/task. I was taught to be alert for moments like and take advantage of every one.

When my pups (that had been FF) balked, I administered an ear pinch and give the "fetch" command. This cuts through the fog of unfamiliarity to a place the pup knows & is comfortable with, prior training & turning off training pressure. The pup dives on & holds the strange bird as commanded.

It has been my experience this is a powerful lesson that usually sticks with the dog for life, that being "when Dad tells me to pick up & hold any bird, I darn well do it as fast & classy as I possibly can"...


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## The Canuck Kid (Mar 18, 2009)

Well, my dog is 2 years old. I bought the dog (Meggie) as a young pup. I am not looking for Meggie to become a master hunter or anything like that, I just want her to do very small scale retrieves on land for geese and in small ponds for ducks. I guess you could say she is in the beginning of her training. She is a very obedient dog. I am reading up on force fetching and would like to do it myself, rather than someone else. Any tips?


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I recommend you start from the absolute beginning and follow a program. I use the books 10 Minute Retriever by John & Amy Dahl, Smartwork and Smartfetch For Retrievers by Evan Graham as the foundation of my program. I also read & pick up a lot of info from The Retriever Journal.

I train my dogs twice daily anywhere from 5-20 minutes per session. This essentially never ends, even after they are Finished. A well trained gundog needs & wants to train just as much as it needs to eat & breathe. Their heart will give out before their desire to train & hunt. My dogs practically wet themselves with excitement when they see me grab a bucket of bumpers.

All training is built on the foundation of Basic Obedience (OB). You cannot FF a dog who does not have it's Basic OB down rock solid.

You cannot skip steps or rush them. Some tasks it will learn faster than others. It's very unwise to move on to the next task until your dog has the current task down pat, as you will just have to go back to fix problems you could have avoided in the first place.

Sorry to advise there is no short cut for this process. Your dog has to actually learn how to train and later on, how to turn off training pressure. To take a dog from Basic OB to a Started level (probably what you would be looking for) I plan on roughly 10-14 months of twice daily training. To take the dog to a Finished level is an additional 4-6 months, sometimes more.

Most prefer to start with a pup and begin Basic OB at around 16 weeks of age. FF/CC begins around 6 months old (when the pup's adult teeth are fully in). My pup won't be Finished & ready to experience it's first full hunting season until it's 18-24 months old.

For me a Started dog has rock solid OB, knows basic whistle commands & silent hand signals (sit, here), has been FF/CC, is steady to wing & shot, and will have no problem doing double land & water marks out 150 yards. They have a beginning understanding of hunting and will do well on both waterfowl & upland. They have a good foundation of bird experience and have been on a couple shooting preserve hunts under closely controlled conditions. They have a ton of drive & love to retrieve.

By the time my dogs are Finished they Handle easily & well (drive hard on a line until whistle stopped then follow hand casts on the 4 cardinal compass points and the 1/4 points between them (12,2,3,4,6,8,9,10 o'clock) to find & retrieve a bird they did not see fall, they will rotate left or right to continue on their line depending on which hand they are cast with), will do triple/quad marks & blinds out to 300+ yards, know how to hunt out of of a field blind, boats, and a water platform. They are thoroughly familiar with hunting & swimming or driving hard through decoys to the bird. They do not have to be at heel to retrieve; I often handle them to a position away from me, whistle sit them, and send or handle them to the fall remotely.

This is a bit of a simplification but you get the idea what I expect of my dogs. When I started out I thought much like you and wanted my dog trained to a minimal level. I'm thoroughly thankful I listened to some experienced trainers and took my dog to a Finished level. Believe me, once you hunt with a good Started or Finished gundog, nothing else will satisfy you again...

Good luck with your training and think of it as a journey, not a job. Enjoy it... :thumb:


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## Fosse (Jan 5, 2007)

Very well writen, spot on! :beer:


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## whitehorse (Jan 28, 2008)

Fosse said:


> Very well writen, spot on! :beer:


agree...

I honestly am not the best reader, and I think that fowl dogs I and II, and even grahams smart fetch would be the way to go....

fowl dogs two has a force fetch in it, but i think that i'd follow more closely to grahams, but everyone has their own styles.

I thought i wanted a standard duck dog too, but after you see the steps layed out, maybe a time frame idea, and how to train, you'll think "why don't I teach him that" and then before you know it, your dog is able to be casted onto birds, has more drive than already had, sits on a whistle at 100 yards, and yes, gets more birds in your bag!

best of luck


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## Slimpickins (Jun 9, 2009)

Make sure you also take your time!

A very well force fetched dog will have the attributes to continue in training if it is done well the first time. It will understand what pressure is and will be able to shut it off.

Just keep asking questions on here or check out www.retrievertraining.net and do a search on force fetch and hold. Tons of info out there.


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## The Canuck Kid (Mar 18, 2009)

Thanks everyone for all your help, I will keep you posted.


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