# Why Is It...?



## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

I'm sitting here watching Bush's speech and wondering, why in the hell is it America's job to bring freedom to the rest of the world...AKA the Middle East?

The Shiites really appreciate our 'gift of freedom.' :roll:

I seriously could give a rats-*** about some arabs freedom...when that same arab would slit my throat (or cut my head off) given the chance. At least when Saddam was in power they hated him; now they hate us. After spending hundreds upon hundreds of billions of dollars to supposedly make us safer we've made millions of people over there mad enough to want to hijack a plane and fly into some buildings or blow up something.

I'm sick of this imperialistic crap and that we're on a 'mission from god' to bring democracy to the rest of the world (in particular the middle east)...I guess the Allah doesn't believe in freedom. :roll: We need to get off of our dependency on oil from that region and then pull out and just let it rot.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Matt Democracy breeds peace, peace and prosperity. Prosperity eliminates discontent which reduces the attraction to extremist. These extremists are the root of the terrorism though out the world. Go check out a world history book and you will see that most dictators and zealots rose to power in countries facing a lack of prosperity and hope.

If we as nation want to see another 200 years we need for the majority of the world to be prosperous and have the ability to obtain the dreams we have. This is why the US is the destination of those seeking a better life. We have what they want and that is a freedom to be what ever we want.

Look at it this way. If Tuesday you where told that you would be a worker in a factory for the rest of your working days, or that because you disagree with the current leader of our nation that you and your family will be imprisoned or killed. Would you not hope that someone would give you the opportunity to change the course of your life to fit your choosing?

Most of us take the ability to do what we want for granted, and become selfish in thinking that others who have the same hope may need our help in obtaining there dream or at the very least allowing there children to obtain theirs.

I guess growing up around so many WWII Vets gave me a perspective of how important freedom for all the people of the world. What it meant to many that entered towns and where thanked over and over for removing an oppressive collar from around their necks. Many of the returning vets from our current conflict tell the same things.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

Matt hit the nail on the head with two words - OIL DEPENDENCY! If we would just use our technology to move in different ways, we could say good riddance to the whole Goddam region, and the nuts wouldn't have too much to be inflamed about. Remember, in less than a decade ND could supplant Midland as the capitol of US energy. I'm looking at trees swaying outside right now and lamenting all that power being missed. Wind is were it's at, and it will keep our gameland unspoiled. I spent two years in the oil fields, I'd much rather go with wind energy and save the conservation. Just my take, though.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I think it would be pretty cool to be able to travel freely about the world and visit some of the ancient places of our distant ancestors. 8) They needed a pounding and we gave it to them.


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## Southwest Fisher (May 14, 2004)

I don't think seeing those sites is worth the lives of a thousand brave servicemembers, but that's just me. I still would rather be done with the whole damn region.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

That brings a question ....would I die for God and Country, yes I would 8)


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

At this point they wouldn't stay over there and "rot" they will come here and kill us there are something like 120 plus hotspots involveing armed conflict in this world and about 90 percent of them are Muslim Jihadists. Look at the school in Russia that will be happening here if we don't change their situation so that the crazies can't find nuts to do their bidding. The real problem is that this stuff has been building for 30 years and we always believed that it would never affect our life in America so we ignored it. 911 finally brought it to head and now we will have to deal with the root of the problem, oppressive regimes,which we have allowed to let flourish because we need the stable oil supplies for our economy. We need to change the lives of these people, and create democracies, so they have a stake in their life and are not willing to throw it away because some crackpot mullah tells them to. Simultaneously we need to develop alternative sources of fuel. We cannot do one without the other.


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## BigDaddy (Mar 4, 2002)

This really begs the question of how much the Iraqi people are going to defend the freedoms that were given to them.

Let me ask all of you this: How much would we value our freedom in the U.S. if France would have simply kicked the British out and handed the country over to the colonists? The truth is, we value our freedom because we fought for it. Granted, France helped the colonists during the Revolutionary War, but the revolution was initiated by the colonists.

Iraq is different. The Iraqi people didn't start a revolution so that we could come in later with financial aid, weapons or some sort of assistance. Instead, we eliminated Saddam and handed the government over to the Iraqi people. To be honest, freedom came way to cheap to Iraq. There were some resistance fighters, but I would guess that the vast majority of Iraqi people simply stood by and watched while foreign soldiers did the dirty work. My point is that when something comes cheap, people don't value it like they should.

What will we do if this democracy experiment fails? What if the Iraqi people decide that they don't want democracy? Are we going to allow them to select a king? What if they decide that they want a Islam-based theocracy like in other Middle Eastern countries? Are we going to forbid them to do so after we have given them permission to carve their own destiny?


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> What will we do if this democracy experiment fails? What if the Iraqi people decide that they don't want democracy? Are we going to allow them to select a king? What if they decide that they want a Islam-based theocracy like in other Middle Eastern countries? Are we going to forbid them to do so after we have given them permission to carve their own destiny?


My opinion is that we worry about that if this happens, the vast majority of them have indicated a preference for Democratic principles. Our timidity about dealing with this problem for the last 30 years has already cost more than 4000 American lives and God only knows how many Iraqi lives. We need to finish it. Most things people worry about never happen.
Name one country that has given up democracy in favor of another system, I'm not saying for sure its never happened but I sure don't know of one do you? Once people get a taste of freedom its pretty hard going back. We have so much invested in this that we need to see it through and Bush is the guy to do that.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Spain went communist...we don't want the rest of the world to do this. Or we'll be buying oil from Russia and China. It is just more cold war type tactics and unfortunately are still a must. 8)


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Matt and BD,
You must like "If Patton was president" in case you missed it I'll bump it for you :beer:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

The Spanish wimped out, my favorite shotgun is a spanish double, damn :eyeroll: I do think they might still come around though, my feeling is it was a over reaction to the terrorist bombing of the trains.
But you're correct, can you name any others?


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

This is something to think about! Since America is typically 
>represented by
> an eagle. Saddam and Ben Laden should have read up
> on their Muslim passages.
> The following verse is from the Quran, (the Islamic Bible)
>
> Quran (9:11) -- For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a
> fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt
> throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people trembled 
>in
> despair still more rejoiced; for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the
> lands of Allah; and there was peace.
>
> (Note the verse number!!!!!)


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

I did a little research, 9/11 is "11. But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand. "

http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/9.htm


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Matt this is why we have to fight these bastards, if we don't they will be here again and 9/11 will seem small.....Read about these peace loving
Muslims, imagine this in a school here :eyeroll: :sniper: 
A three-day standoff with suspected Islamic Chechen terrorists armed with suicide-bomb belts at a Russian school erupted today in explosions, gunfire and the screams of fleeing children as commandos stormed the building.

The Russian Interfax news agency reported Health officials count *more than 200 dead and more than 700 injured in the town of Beslan*, in the North Ossetia region, near Chechnya.

President Bush called it "another grim reminder of the length to which terrorists will go to threaten this civilized world."

In an earlier report, Britain's ITV News said a cameraman saw up to 100 bodies.

"I was stopped by the Russian soldiers," ITV's Julian Manyon reported. "But our cameraman did manage to get through the door just for a few moments. *He told me that in his estimation there are as many as 100 dead bodies, I am afraid,* lying on the smouldering floor of the gymnasium where we know that a large number of the hostages were being held."

The terrorists, who at one time held as many as 1,500 hostages, seized the building Wednesday and made a series of demands involving nearby Chechnya. About 26 hostages, all women and children, were freed yesterday after lengthy negotiations.

The demands included removal of Russian troops in the war-torn region and independence.

Interfax, citing the Federal Security Service, said 10 of the hostage-takers came from Arab countries.

The Russian news agency said about a dozen terrorists escaped during the raid by Russian forces and split into three groups, eventually taking refuge in a nearby home.

The Russian news agency said tank fire was heard from the area of the house while huge columns of smoke billowed from the school.

Troops engaged in "fierce fighting" with the terrorists for hours while still holding some hostages, according to Valery Andreyev, the regional Federal Security Service chief.

Officials at a crisis operation center said the siege ended shortly after nightfall. Three terrorists remained at large but it could not be confirmed whether they still held hostages. Another three terrorists were arrested trying to escape in civilian dress, according to Russia's Channel One TV.

Part of the school's roof is gone and another section is charred, Interfax said.

A temporary hospital was set up near the school where children were carried in on stretchers, some covered with blood and wearing only underpants.

The chaos erupted at about 1 p.m. when the terrorists allowed Russian personnel to retreive bodies of people killed early in the raid. Explosions went off, possibly from bombs strapped to the bodies of some of the terrorists, and the hostages began to flee.

*Terrorists opened fire on the hostages, many of them women and children.* Commandos returned fire and moved in as the captors began to escape.

Lev Dzugayev, a North Ossetian official, said the attackers might be from Chechnya or Ingushetia.

*"They are very cruel people, we are facing a ruthless enemy," *said Leonid Roshal, a pediatrician involved in the negotiations, according to Fox News. "I talked with them many times on my cell phone, but every time I ask to give food, water and medicine to the hostages they refuse my request."

Prior to the raid, President Vladimir Putin promised everything possible would be done to end the "horrible" crisis and save the children.

The U.S.-based evangelical group Russian Ministries said its regional coordinator, Gennady Terkun, was at the scene.

He reported eight of the children of two local pastors and an estimated 50 children who recently attended a summer camp run by the ministry were among the hostages.

Anita Deyneka, director of the mission in Wheaton, Ill., told WorldNetDaily she had just received word that only two of the pastors' eight children have been found, in a local hospital.

The raid began, she said, when older children were seen breaking a window in the school to try to escape.

"These children are very close to our hearts," Deyneka said, noting an emergency fund has been set up for the families.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

BobM, let me ask you this...Do you honestly think we have less people that want to kill us in the middle east after Iraq? Do you think going into Iraq has made us safer as a country? Like I said before, with Saddam they hated him...without him they hate us. It's not our duty to give these people freedom and they aren't grateful for it anyway. I really don't give a damn if these people live under a evil dictator. I'd rather see the balance of power work that way.

If we could kill all the people that want to kill us, I would. But we can't...we literally can't afford to and it's an impossible task. Iraq keeps costing us hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars. We need to say to hell with oil and move in a different direction. New technology means new money for the economy. Let's be honest, if it wasn't for oil would we care less about the stability of the middle east. Once we aren't dependant on it, we can pull out and let it rot like the rest of the third world that we could care less about.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Give it some time..Rome wasn't built in a day. If we walk away from any part of the world we loose. We do alot of food for oil and trade alot of expensive items for oil, we don't just flat out buy very much oil. We need all the market areas we can get, we have plenty with Africa quickly being brought into the action.

South VietNam went commy, Korea is commy now days I think. They used to be Republics but were taken over by communism. :evil:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

North Korea not south its a Democracy and North Korea never was a free place same with Vietnam, although vietnam would be a free democracy if Kerry and Fonda and their Ilk didn't turn the public against the war. We would of won that war easily if we fought it the way the generals wanted to instead of the way the politicians did. Which was one example of Bushes good judgement he let the military decide what to do on the battlefield.

Matt yes the answer to your question is yes it will be much safer. And it must be accomplished otherwise we will have to kill all of them, or suffer continuous terroists attacks.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Lets say their main trading partners are commy....AK47 and other commy products. If we don't guard China Sea and the big reserve it holds the commy's will have that too.

I'm all for taking the next step now...which is electric power generated from nuclear energy. France is well over 90% nuclear powered...there is no way around it, we need to do this now. Japan has been developing this for us and have come along way. They have a nuke pacemaker, when you die it stays running and they have to cut it out of you.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> An unidentified intelligence official was quoted by the ITAR-Tass news agency as saying the school assault was financed by Abu Omar As-Seyf, an Arab who allegedly represents al-Qaida in Chechnya, and masterminded by Chechen rebel leader Shamil Basayev.


here a quote from a Russian official
about the wonderful funloving Muslims, what the heck all they were doing was killing a few school kids, normal routine week for Muslims. :eyeroll: :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


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