# disapointed and confused on 243 winchester fror deer



## scorpiont52

very confused and disapointed in 243 winchester, for deer, bought a rifle for my grandaughter to us this year in 243, i never shot this round before and only can go off what i read and hear from others well so far very disapointed, 4 deer hit no deer down,,no shot over 130 yards, she is shooting right behind shoulder, a few left a puddle of blood for a short time as they stood still for a few sec before disapering with no more blood to track, others left no blood what so ever to even try to track, i watch as she shoots and can see deer take the hit but nothing,,,, using federal preamun 100gr serria,, dont know what we did wrong, i am thinking hard in trading for a 270 for next year.. can anyone help me understand this...


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## Kelly Hannan

I have killed many Deer with a 243. I have used factory as well as reloads with 100 gr bullets. Very few went more than 50 yards before dropping. If truely hit where you stated, then something really weird happened. Sounds to me like shoulder or too far back. If you opt out for the 270, let me know, I could use another 243


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## KurtR

That is crazy a heart/lung shot deer always running off. If you dont want them to move shoot the 85grn tsx and break the front shoulders. If you would like your granddaughter to develop a flinch the .270 is a great way to do it.


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## MossyMO

That really doesn't make much sense to me... .243 is a very adequate round for whitetail, I have taken many with a .243 caliber.

.270 is in my opinion is one of the best whitetail rounds out there. I load Hornady SST's for both .243 and .270, 95 grain bullet in the .243 and 130 grain for the .270 in case you feel the bullet may be the issue.


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## spentwings

scorpiont52 said:


> very confused and disapointed in 243 winchester, for deer, bought a rifle for my grandaughter to us this year in 243, i never shot this round before and only can go off what i read and hear from others well so far very disapointed, 4 deer hit no deer down,,no shot over 130 yards, she is shooting right behind shoulder, a few left a puddle of blood for a short time as they stood still for a few sec before disapering with no more blood to track, others left no blood what so ever to even try to track, i watch as she shoots and can see deer take the hit but nothing,,,, using federal preamun 100gr serria,, dont know what we did wrong, i am thinking hard in trading for a 270 for next year.. can anyone help me understand this...


 :spam: ,,,I mean baloney!!


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## SDHandgunner

I have taken a lot of deer with the .243 over the years with a lot of different bullets. One thing I did discover was to stay away from the 100gr. Sierra Gameking Spitzer Boat Tails. I used Federal Premiums with that bullet for a couple years and was very disappointed with the bullet. I never lost a deer but had to track every one. The following year I switched to 95gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips and the deer dropped in their tracks.

What I discovered with the 100gr. Sierra Gameking Spitzer Boat Tails was they are a little hard. If no bone was hit there was not much if any expansion when poking one through the ribs behind the shoulder.

I think I would try ammo with a different bullet before I gave up on the .243.

Larry


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## Kelly Hannan

I have used Remington, Winchester, Federal and probably others all with 100 gr bullets. Now I reload with 100 gr Hornady pointed soft point bullets. Very reliable round. I have shot alot of Deer from 25 yards to 350 yards. Unless I failed to do my part it has been great.

I agree with another post :spam:


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## Sasha and Abby

A .22 rimfire will kill a deer. A .243 will stone them too. It will not compensate for a poor shot placement. You state that she is _AIMING_ for a spot right behind the shoulder. Where she actually _HIT_ the animal is another story. I will wager that she did not hit where she wanted to...


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## Plainsman

Something is wrong for sure, but it isn't the cartridge. I also have dumped a few deer with the 243. The largest deer (by weight) that I have ever killed was with a 243 at 300 yards.
When I was elk hunting in Montana the 243 was popular with the very young. They kicked a herd of about 60 off a mountain top south of me. That was two miles away. They had to cross two roads to get to me. Kids had killed about a dozen cows before they reached me. Talking with them afterwards most were shot with 243. I watched one kid take a big cow 100 yards from me. I will have to say I think it was inadequate for those elk. He hit her, she run about 20 yards, and it's the first time I have ever seen an animal lean against a tree like a tired person. About 30 seconds and she went down. I guess that wasn't real bad, because that perhaps happens often, we just don't see the animal survive 30 seconds. When people talk about tracking 100 yards the animal has to survive a few seconds to do that.


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## scorpiont52

thanks for all the replys on the 243, i am just baffles as to 4 shots and at least 3 hits i know of and no deer,, i have showed her pic of deer and she pointed out where she held,,,she droped a deer at 125 yards last year with my sons 270, but this year a season from hell lol..so where is the best place to hit a deer with a 243, and what bullet do you recomend,, i tried hornady, 95gr sst but they didnt group very well, i am just bewildered as to what to do..hate to go though all this again next year..i am scard she will loose her intrest in hunting, and no confidance in her self..


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## KurtR

Try the noslers, or bergers or many other bullets to try. What powder did you use with the 95grn sst becasue they even grouped good out of my sling shot, but i had problems with them when hitting bone at high velocity. Push the 85grn tsx hard and shoot the front shoulders no tracking dead deer. They cant run with broken shoulders


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## Kelly Hannan

generally a 243 isn't real picky with what you feed it. Like I posted earlier I use Hornady 100 gr psp. 35 gr of H4895 powder. I have hit them in the brisket, shoulder, and just behind the shoulder. The caliber should work fine anywhere in the vitals. Try to avoid a shoulder. I use the point of the shoulder as a pointer to where I want to hit. If you hit just behind that point you will have a dead deer. When I used factory loads I had the same results. I'm gonna say she is getting excited and jerking the trigger and not hitting where you want it to hit. Or like you mentioned, maybe you have a bad enough group that the bullet isn't hitting where she is aiming, also check the zero on the scope. Maybe it's off.


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## Sasha and Abby

She obviously did not hit where she was aiming... it happens.


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## oldfireguy

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with the .243. I too am confused. It is the same caliber as my own daughter uses (Rem model 788) and I load the Sierra Game King in 100 grain for her. Hasn't lost a deer to date.....one required a bit of tracking effort. I shoot the .270 and if your daughter can handle the recoil, it is a great deer cartridge. Good luck to you, and to her.


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## striped1

The caliber is more than fine. Bullet placement and bullet performance are the critical pieces missing. You would be amazed how far a deer can run without a blood trail. I shot a buck with a Rage 2 blade broadhead this fall. The shot was a little high (3")and a little too far back (3") Clipped the lung but missed the heart. It ran 150 yards and for the last 75 there was 1 drop of blood. It ultimately bled out internally. A heart lung shot will usually require a tracking job and a should shot will waste a lot of meat. A DRT (dead right there) shot is usually a Central Nervous system shot above the shoulders. Most animals will not just drop in their tracks unless the spine is hit.


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## scorpiont52

i have read all the replys on my 243 problem, and thanks to you all,,i can see her missing 1 deer but 4 shot at least 3 hit and no deer...she has told me where she aims,,,i do think what 1 reply said could be true and in gameking being to hard,, seams they must go in and out same size,, only 2 left a little blood,where they stood for a few sec when they entered woods. one left a blood puddle that had cloted a good bit,,, then after they took off nothing i mean nothing in blood trail....now where i am i cant see deer run after the shot, and follow it for 30 yards, they go into woods that are so think in places they have to pump in daylight,,,and with many trail leading in differant directions,, so i need a bullet that will open it up for good blood flow, i have no problem tracking deer, i just need blood to do so...i am still at a delima as to what to do,,,if i keep gun and try sst bullets or try shoulder shots i wont know till next season as to what the results are,,,so need to make up my mind this off season on to get anothet gun in differant callaber or tryn differant bullets,, as it is right now she dosent want tohunt with this gun anymore,, she feels bad about hitting deer and not recovering any,,,,so thanks to all that replyed, i will take all to heart and try to learn from all your answeres..


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## Sasha and Abby

Nothing against her, but "she told me where she aims" is obviously NOT where she HIT the deer. It is ALL about bullet placement... All of it!!!! You can use FMJ bullets and if you hit the sweet spot, the deer will be DEAD. She is pulling her shot somehow.


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## Savage260

As has been pointed out many times, the POI isn't the same as the POA. If it were me, I would use only the TSX from Barnes. I shoot 105gr and 107gr bullets from my 6mm Rem, and my 6BR Norma, and now my 6mm06, but that is for paper and varmints. I would still choose the TSX over either of those for deer. Just me. My bro in law has shot many many deer with 85gr HPs and 100gr SPs out of his .243, never had a problem.


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## spentwings

scorpiont52,,,
Maybe your granddaughter has been smacking them in the shoulder. A lot of guys think Gamekings are a little soft.
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/reloadi ... kings.html
I love the .243,,, but confidence in a rifle/caliber is important so maybe you should dump it.


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## Kelly Hannan

What brand and model is the gun? I might be interested in a new 243


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## Ron Gilmore

I would have to agree with Savage in regards to a bullet choice switch up. Having used the TSX bullets in the field including out of a .243 on deer they out perform anything else I have used. In regards to where they are hit vs where she said she was aiming. All I can say is that regardless of the shooter live targets always involve more emotional activity than simply punching holes in paper.

You have left out a lot of info that could and likely is a bigger contributing factor like wind conditions, trigger pull weight,angle of the shot etc...


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## spentwings

Speaking of bullet failure,,,this little grassland buck went 185yds after taking a 75 yd chest hit with a 100gr Grand Slam. 
The good size exit wound is clearly visible but check out the lungs,,,they're essentially intact.
I really thought I had missed until I found one little glob of blood that suggested a lung shot.
Since Grand Slams have always performed flawlessly for me in the past and since,,,it was interesting enough to document with photos.


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## Savage260

How is a 1 shot kill a "bullet failure"? The exit doesn't look like it is in an ideal spot, but it would really depend on where the entry was, I guess. If the exit hole was good would't that mean the bullet did what it was supposed to do, and the placement was just not perfect? Not trying to be a jerk, just going from the pic and what you explained.


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## spentwings

:-? Any shot through the lungs on a moving deer is ideal placement for me. 
The buck was on a slight rise and if I recall,,, the entrance was a tad lower and further back.
At any rate, by bullet failure I meant the lungs should have been souped and the deer down well within a 100.
Maybe I've just been lucky. :lol:


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## Savage260

Where in the lungs was the hit? Pretty far back I would guess? Even my very good sized mulie this year, hit with a 300gr SMK with lung tissue coming out of both the entry and exit wounds(soup as you say :wink: ), ran about 50 yds. It was shot on the trot at 253yds. He was dead at the shot, but the body didn't know it yet. If the deer is moving already, it doesn't take much for a deer to cover a lot of ground in a very short time. 
I don't have experience with the soft point bullets, do they really give the "soup" effect? I would think since they are not a bullet that fragments easily like an SST, Ballistic tip, or SMK, they wouldn't.......soupify? Can I use that word?

Looks to me like it was an ok hit on a moving deer, good expansion as per the exit hole, so I would say it did the job pretty well, but that is just me. Any one else have an opinion on it?


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## spentwings

Not an opinion but fact,,,whether Hornady 100gr Interlocks, Speer 100gr Grand Slams, or Nosler 95gr Partitions, they all soup
the lungs to one degree or another. Like I said, the reason for the photos was because this was atypical. 
Looking at the exit again, I'd say it's close to being in the middle of the left lung field at least.
Enough for me,,,but please carry on. :lol:


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## Plainsman

Scorpion52 confidence is a strange thing. If I loaned a rifle to someone I perhaps would never shoot it again. I would worry it was dropped, or the crown dinged. I take care of things as if they need to last a thousand years. That being said your daughter has perhaps lost confidence in that rifle. Get something different.

If she shoots a 270 well great. If not don't go that far. I'll go out on a limb and suggest 25-06 or one of the 6.5 like the 260 Remington, or the 6.5 Creedmore etc. For my grandson I purchased an old bolt action Stevens (still looking for a Savage) in 30-30. Since it is a clip fed I load 125gr Ballistic Tip at 2600 fps. I have recommended this to a couple of friends for their wives and they both like it. One fellow says you couldn't pry his wifes 30-30 Savage out of her hands with a crowbar.


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## dakotashooter2

I have had good luck with nosler partitions and rarely had a deer go more than a few yards with a lung shot. The only real failures I have had were with balistic tips that encountered the shoulder. I suspect maybe a low chest shot on your deer . Such a shot can occasionally slip around the vitals and cause very little damage.


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## spentwings

Hate to admit, especially to Savage :wink: ,,, you're probably right.
Found another photo of that long ago hunt. It appears the left field is partially souped,,,right totally intact.


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## AdamFisk

My brother double lunged a whitetail with a 250gr Barnes TMZ last weekend, both lungs turned to this "soup" you guys are talking about, entrance and exit wounds. The deer still managed to go another 150yds or so before piling up. I used to think that if a bullet didn't drop a deer damn near in it's tracks I'd find one that would. After this deal, I don't think it matters what bullets you use (to some extent), some deer just got a little extra in them to run a ways before they pile up, even with good shot placement.


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## alleyyooper

After I bought my 243 I was less than impressed with store bought ammo for it. I would not even hunt deer with it the first season I felt the ammo was so bad offthe store selves. I bought a bunch of bullets from 105gr. speers to some 80gr. hornadays. Lots of testing on filled milk jugs and water soaked phone books and I settled on 85gr. sirerra HPBT game kings. I love the bullet andf do all my 243 shooting with it. Deer are nbang flop as are chucks and crows are like smoked clays except the floating feathers. It became my favorite round as the rifle it was chambered in.
A 8MM mag won't kill adeer if shot in the wrong spot with the wrong bullet. I've even seen a youte run after being hit with a 168gr. bullet from a 300 whinny mag.

 Al


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## KurtR

If you want anchored animals just break the front shoulders. Hard to go any where


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## Ron Gilmore

Yes Kurt you are right, but every now and then a guy can pull off line a bit! When that happens I want a bullet that soups the lungs! Thus why I shoot the TSX!


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## huntin1

So you don't think the 243 is good for deer. How about elk? How about elk at 680 yards?

Watch the elk second from the left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... Y0w1c-gf18

Not sure what happened in your case, but it isn't a caliber issue.

huntin1


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## KurtR

that is what i said earlier in the thread break shoulders with the tsx. The 168 amax has worked well for me out of the .308(155 scenars are in toe). 264 win mag the accu bond has done well. the 162 amax spit form both 7mm-08 and also 7mm rem mag has done it. 130 tsx out of the 270 wsm. cant remeber which tsx out of the 25-06. 140 bergers from a 260 has done quite well. 85grn tsx from 6mm/243 but i like the 105 amax more personally But every bullet will fail and talk to enough people they will hate the one you love. There is no replacement for bullet placement. Placement,bullet, head stamp. a gut shot deer with a .375 ultra mag is just as gut shot as one with a 243. Funny thing about the tsx i know about 6 people that hate them with a passion becaue they penciled through the deer with no soup no expansion at all. Others would rather sleep with the tsx than their wife. But in the end if there are holes in lungs sh!t dies it is that easy.


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## xdeano

That's a pretty decent vapor trail, and very good shooting. I'll be shooting those same bullets out of my 6SLR. 105g Berger Hunting VLD. Good bullet.

xdeano


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## Ron Gilmore

KurtR, the only people I know that have had any issue with the Barnes copper bullet have all been shooting the TTSX or those with the ballistic tip. Expansion has been a bit suspect and I would be the first to admit that. However none of the animals I have taken with the TSX ever had an expansion issue.

Friend in TX shoots hogs for a couple ranchers and they donate the hogs to a local food pantry. So they use non toxic bullets. He shoots a 260 Rem and has loaded both the 110 TSX and the 100gr TTSX using IMR 4350 44.2gr.

Since much of the cover is very hard to get around in they like to shoot them either in the head/neck or front shoulder to anchor the hog. A number of these animals go over 350 lbs. Even though they target the shoulder and forward area at times like all the hog may move slightly and cause a lung pass through. All of the hogs that go more than a short distance where shot with the TTSX and the lungs simply had a hole punched through and did not look like strawberry jello and cool whip mix like they get with the non tipped.

He has taken well over 200 animals the last couple years and in his opinion on these animals at least they are the best bullet he has tried.


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## KurtR

Like i said you can find some that loves them i can find some that dont. Knowing people is nice. I also know some one whos job it is to cull elk out west. Shot to many to keep track at this point with the little ol .308 and smks which some like some dont. Bullet placement is the number one most important factor by so much is not even funny. FMJ are not hunting rounds would not recomend any one unless it is a starvation situation to use them but if you put it where it needs to go death will follow. Here is some picture that show the good the bad and ugly of alot of boolits. enjoy http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthr ... 141&page=1


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## Savage260

Wow, Spentwings, very gracious of you! :lol:

Kurt, I love the TSX, but no way am I sleeping with them! Those things would roll around and you would never know where they might get stuck! 

Deano, if you already know you are shooting the 105 VLD why did I give you those 107SMKs and 105 A-max? oke:


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## xdeano

because my the smith did a quick test with the 105g hunting vld and he ended up shooting 5 under a half inch and 4 of those under a quarter inch at 100yds. But we'll see how they do on coyotes first, then i may have to try those smk's and amax. We'll see.

xdeano


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## scorpiont52

dose anyone have any info on this round for a 243,,,,,,Winchester Supreme Elite Ammo with 95gr XP3


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## xdeano

looks like a decent bullet to me. 
http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/supreme-elite/xp3/Pages/SXP243W.aspx

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/88...unition-243-winchester-95-grain-xp3-box-of-20

Gets decent reviews. Try it, see if your gun likes it and report back. If your gun doesn't like it, move on.

xdeano


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## TN6.5-260

"scorpiont52", guess by now you have found out that on this forum only certain people are allowed to express their opinions without being attacked.

Biggest mistake you made with the internet babies and what caused them to throw their tantrums was not liking their toy and thinking there might be better toys for you. Could not possibly have happened, their toys are the best.

TN


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## KurtR

TN6.5-260 said:


> "scorpiont52", guess by now you have found out that on this forum only certain people are allowed to express their opinions without being attacked.
> 
> Biggest mistake you made with the internet babies and what caused them to throw their tantrums was not liking their toy and thinking there might be better toys for you. Could not possibly have happened, their toys are the best.
> 
> TN


What are you so butt hurt about. Maybe give some insite to back up your rambling.


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## spentwings

Oh I don't know.
I think TN was very helpful in solving scorpiont52's perceived .243 dilemma.


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## Savage260

Spent, you got that right! :lol: Just like all the other helpful info he has added to other threads. Search TN's posts and you will find he is a wealth of knowledge. He cries and whines, but that is it as far as posting.


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## scorpiont52

gez guys i was just trying to get help and info, didnt mean to start a war


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