# North Dakota Businesses Supporting Commercial Hunting



## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

These are businesses that spoke out against restrictions on NRs by testifying against SB 2048, or by sending letters to the Governor to not restrict by caps or zones, or news paper articles. Before your next trip fishing or hunting you should know who did not support resident or freelance hunters. It is up to you if you want to avoid them or not. Buy the way residents spent 402.7 (86%) million dollars in ND hunting and fishing, and 213 million dollars (82%) in rural areas. The Avg. resident spends 19 days hunting.

Devils Lake Area:
Woodland Resort, Great American Inn,Liquar Locker,Spririt Water Inn, and West Bay Resort.
Michigan:
Michigan Amoco, Johnson Store, and Legion Bar.
Lakota:Russo's Cafe
Steele: Lone Steer
Lamoure:Omega Motel,Lamoure Supper Club,and Good Oil Co.
Streeter: Streeter Coop,DJ"s Bar,and Streeter Grocery.
Ashley: Dakota Family restaurant
Ellendale:BNC Bank
Lidgerwood:The Hotel
Oaks:E+I Motel
Fessenden:AJ's Motel
Wishekraire Winds Restaurant
Carrington: Cheifton Motel and Bar
Fargo: SCHEELS ALL SPORTS, Dave and Dan Currier owners Dakota Fence


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

What would make Dakota Fence support anti resident legislation? I was going to call them for a bid on a fence for my home . Not anymore. Their out of the picture.


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Owners of Dakota fence are very involed in Cannon Ball Co. and their letter thought that SD's public land programs could solve all are problems.Their letter was sent to me by a legislator.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Thanks DK for the heads up on Dakota Fence.


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## SiouxperDave25 (Oct 6, 2002)

Can someone post a copy of the letter?


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

I don't have time to rewrite whole letter.But as I am looking at it , I will copy some of it.
Feb. 26,2003
"SB2048-VOTE NO-This is bad legislation for ND,it's bad for the resident hunter and it is bad for the NR hunter............"
"Any ND access program upgrades can be funded through "user fees" i.e:license fee increases.Hunter caps should be the LAST resort not the FIRST."
Vote no on SB2048
Dan Currier and Dave Currier 701 237-xxxx (W)


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

thanks for the reminders


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Drakekiller,

Please list the quotes where any of these businesses said they were against resident hunters. I think it is only fair they get exact credit for what they said. I was there and did not hear any of them say they were against resident hunters.

Econ


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Econ do you have your sign up?


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

The following is from Randy Frost. He cannot seem to get on to give his opinion on this subject, so I have said I would post it for him.

Hypocrisy, it rears its ugly head again. The vocal supporters of restricting non-resident hunters were willing to forgive Chris Hustad for allowing commercial hunting operations to advertise on this site because it is just good business for him but now you are beginning the process of boycotting the businesses that do no share your views on the value of non-residents to their businessees and the state.

During the session, there was considerable talk from many landowners to severely restrict the access of hunting ground to our more urban sportman over this issue. When I was asked if I thought this was a good idea my answer was an emphatic no!!! The effort by some on this site to attack or target businesses for testifying in Bismarck ia a very dangerous step in the wrong direction. The democratic way allows for the discussion of policy and allows our citizens the opportunity to give input and direction to our elected officials. Boycotts can be effective, I'll give you that, but it is very low and can affect people who had nothing to do with the issue debated. Real people with real families work for the companies you are beginning to target.

Two last points: Oppsoing the cap proposals of last session does not equal opposing resident hunters no more than supporting them equals opposing non-resident hunters. A forum is a place to debate not a place to cause potential damage to others. Chris, you should seriously consider not allowing this type of thread on the forum. This could truly result in an all out boycott war with all of s suffering.

Randy Frost


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

they did not need to. their actions speak louder than words. they were against the SB2048 therefor they are against residents. I didn't here one resident say they were against NR's but yet I still here how us residents are against the NR's. Where is the genius cityboy when you need him. I have never hunted or fished in MN. I do not care to. they tax the piss out of NR cabin owners. If MN wants to do a little reciprosity. I am game. I have said it before, when it comes to reciprosity, MN gets the better deal. the hunting fees just leveled the playing field a little. Besides, If MN is so great, stay home and hunt. As of Oct 1 I will be a NR. So I got just as much to lose as any NR and I will support ND decisions to place limits on numbers or time for NR's. However I will lose my vote so my say will mean nothing. Three cheers for Hoven:
Hip, Hip- uke:
Hip, Hip- uke: 
hip, hip - uke:


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Ron,

My sign is *I WELCOME ALL HUNTERS FROM ANYWHERE, YOU ARE ALL TOO IMPORTANT TO LOOSE ANY OF YOU, BOTH RESIDENT AND NON-RESIDENT. *
Get it thru your thick skull, Ron, I never have nor never will agree with a cap not because I am anti-resident, but because I am against any attempt to limit the potential of the Lake Region. We have been limited by too many natural disasters ect. and we do not need you to limit us in an unnatural way!!!!!!! Got it???????? If you want caps where you live, then so be it. You do not live here and have no idea what you are talking about for the Lake Region.

Econ


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

Econ,
Cause money is all your concerned about. I have been to the lake region. You say all you have to do is ask. :bs: We were turned down by every land owner we talked to. we ended up ordering a pizza at the Davis Motel and getting up in the AM and going home. Road trip for a pizza. And once again, all your looking at is the money. You would sell out the entire state if it would help your precious lake region. what a joke :withstupid:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

con why don't you post the sign saying I did not support SB2048 along with your other sign. See the difference is that I am willing to put my name out in the public so that anyone that agree's or disagree's with me know who I am when I introduce myself. I have an axe to grind with commericalztion of hunting and those that exploit the resource with no regards to future problems or population levels. For some reason you fail to see that.

Once again come out and stand up for what you so boldy proclaim let people know how you are and then let them decide if they want to do business with you.

You continue to hide behind the shield of a screen name and misrepresent yourself to the public that are freqenting your faclity. If you are so confident in your beliefs and ethics then stop hiding and do as I have done.

My efforts have caused me to lose some access and I was prepared to sacrifice them for principals and future geneations of sportmen both resident and nonresident. You on the other hand want to eat out of all the troughs and have someone else pick up the feed bill.

You need a outlet for the Lake to prevent flooding, how about a tax on the dollars the high water levels have brought to your region, then Nelson county can be self supporting and not need anything from the rest of the state. Beings that the resource is unlimitless your bond should be paid for in say fifty years, maybe even twenty with all the people you want to bring to your area. Find someplace to send the water besides downstream because we have had enough of the S### that is flowing out of Nelson County and I for one do not want to have to build another waste treatment plant.


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## SiouxperDave25 (Oct 6, 2002)

jimboy said:


> they did not need to. their actions speak louder than words. they were against the SB2048 therefor they are against residents.


Jimboy, I don't agree with that statement at all. I was against SB2048 as it was originally written but in no way am I against the resident hunters. Not one of my reasons against the bill had anything to do with being anti-resident. I would guess that most of the other opponents feel the same way.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Econ You state that your area is limited by natural disasters. I assume that you are refering to the rising lake level. This natural disaster has made your fishing world class in Devils Lake. It has filled your basin area wetlands and made the waterfowling better. It has pumped untold millions of govt money into your reigon. These are the main things that draw people to your area. You would be in much worse shape without this natural disaster. What about the post from waterchicken of Hutchinson Minn ( We left a day early very frustated at the lack of accessible land). You say there is no problem with access. The great attribute of this website is the fact that it is not censored. When that is gone so am I.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Old Hunter 
You are 100% on that one. Plenty of people have profited off the flood in DL. Woodland Resort was moved twice by FEMA. Tony Dean has went on record as saying DL would lose money if the lake went way down because farming is not coming back.


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Ron,

I have never and will never claim an outlet is the end all to the Regions problems. I am too realistic to believe there ever will be an outlet, so get off your high horse on the subject.

I am not exploiting any resource at all. We have a USF&W service that is very competent with its limits and laws and does an excellent job of managing the resource. Did they advocate there were too many hunters in ND???? Not that I am aware of, but if they did I am sure you will point it out to everyone. 

By the way, take a ND geography class so you know the state's proposed outlet is out of the west end (Ramsey county) through Benson county. I am sure you will appologize to the citizens of Nelson county for your mistake. I am sure they do not want to send you any more s### either. I wonder how anyone could tell in the Red River anyway.

jimboy,

Sounds like you are one of those fly by night hunters who doesn't do any research before he hunts. Had you come up earlier than the day you wanted to hunt , you more than likely would have had plenty of opportunities to hunt in this great area.
Also, sounds like all you are concerned about is money if you are leaving this great state to get more money. Good luck to you, and I am sure you will be back as ND is the best the country has to offer. I am staying to continue to grind out an income in this great state.

SiouxperDave25,

Your statement is 100% correct. jimboy and others, in Dan's words, are spinning their side the best they can.

No one has answered me on the question of a quote from any opposition to 2048 that said they are against resident hunters. Seems the spinning continues.

Econ


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Econ still hiding I see. Still not willing to put up your sign. As for the USFWS maybe you should look at there figures and dig a little deeper into just how the season limits are set.

We currently are below the 50 year average on all ducks especially pintails Cans and Bluebills. But due to commerialzied hunting and the money it generates they once again succumed to political pressure and gave us a liberal season, when even the USFWS stated we are killing to many ducks.

Once again you show your lack of understanding of this issue and the resource. How many times did we here that we have record numbers of ducks all time high's. Migratory birds inhabit area's from the artic circle all the way down inot Mexico.

When to many are removed from the population and nesting conditions are poor or the success rate of the hens drop, we could see a number of species become tthreaten and you can bet you next dollar that if that happens hunting could be stopped by the courts. But the big picture escapes you. This could happen in just two short seasons.

Those that care are the ones that your side does not support because in the short term money is all that you see. Me I want to see ducks in the air 20 years from now. I want my children to have the opportunity to learn about the waterfowl besides from a book.

My dad once said vultures where made ugly by god as punishment for being an oportunistic taker and reling on others to provide for them with out giving as much back as they use. I see dark bodies circling the DL area but few see them because they have ther heads buried in the sand.


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

Econ, 
We took the friday off and went. Spent the day trying to get access. since we had reservations at the Davis we decided to stay and sample the pizza which was very good I might add. All I here is "all you have to do is ask :bs: I will never hunt the lake region again.

Dave,
I don't agree either. Just wanted to make a point how people can percieve information and contort it into something totally untrue. Much like the FB, G&O, and a few land owners. :beer:


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## dukluver (Aug 16, 2003)

Jim Boy, let me get this straight... You scouted for one day and didn't find a good spot to hunt so you spent your time eating pizza? Sounds like you are a person who threw in the towel pretty easy. If you work hard at hunting in the DL area, you will have good hunting Most of the time. Your hunting effort sounds like a joke. As far as businesses being anti resident just because they are opposed to caps on nonresidents, even a bigger joke.

Ron, you seem so concerned about the resource, which seems sincere but a person isn't a vulture just because their livlihoods are dependent on a renewable resource. What is wrong with relying on a renewable resource when there are few other opportunites away from ag in many parts of North Dakota. You talk of the future, well lets look at that. Lots of people who are interested in Duck Hunting is good for duck hunting, if you and I were the only two people hunting ducks in this state, we wouldnt have a future for duck hunting. You guys want caps because of your own self interests, don't spin this issue.


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## ND Gander (Jul 9, 2002)

Drake killer: Since you decided to start this little war you should remember to include all those that testified against SB2048. You might need to add all the business members of the Fargo CVB, all the business members of the Dickinson CVB, All the business members of the DL chamber, and many more communities that made their voice heard in the democratic process. Now, this fall you might want to ask landowners if they belong to Farm Bureau, Stockman's association, and LAND. If they are members you might not want to hunt their land. How about the Farm Coops in Cando, Rugby, and many others that spoke up. So really you all should boycott Devils Lake, Cando, Rugby, Streeter, Dickinson, Harvey, McClusky, and pretty much most of the waterfowling communities. How can you harm the 100 or so landowners that testified? I'm sure you can think of something. So how are you fostering the feelings in rural ND? Many folks that look at people like you with disgust read this site. Do you really think your words will improve access to hunting land? As rural residents get the signal you and other so proudly display do you think that some folks might just want to boycott hunting on their land. I understand your frustration and dislike for people and businesses that might share a different point of view. This does not give you the right to try to destroy their livelihood. I think we all need to cool down and try to work together. If we want to continue the hunting heritage this pushing and shoving must end. I challenge you to help figure out how can we move forward positively.


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## ND Gander (Jul 9, 2002)

Jimboy: I would like to ask you a few questions. 1. How many landowners did you visit with? 2. How many said absolutely NO, 3. If they said no what was the main reason. 4. Did they say no because you are a resident. 5. Did any ask what part of ND do you live in? 6. Have you ever asked any of these landowners in pervious years.

I give you credit for asking and taking a day out of your schedule. I hope you are not Bsing us just to make the DL area look bad. I know many folks that have had very positive relationships with landowners in the Lake Region. I guess the reason I ask the question is to establish actual reasons why you were turned down.


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Ron,

Noticed you ignored my geography suggestion. Might help you understand your downfall on the issue.

What do you do for a living?

Econ


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## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

Drakekiller,

Just curious what exactly do you wish to prove by posting up these businesses who are "against" resident hunters?

Seems to me that all you are doing is continuing to DIVIDE sportsmen rather than trying to bring them to the table.

What would you do if you owned the Amoco in Michigan, ND and potential business could be lost?

I believe the silent majority that read these boards will balk at your list and write you off as yet another "extremist." That label may not fit you at all but the same can be said for the label of "anti-resident hunter businesses" that you named this thread. More land will be posted as a result of lists like yours.

I have no idea if your affliated with the ND Sportsmens Alliance or not. But if you are and this is part of your "plan" and this is all you got, good luck. The bad PR generated from this will backfire on any group that thinks this is part of the solution. Most will view it as an attack on a honest business who simply made their opinion known.

Did any of you that were so quick to boycott a fence company or a gas station bother to pick up the phone and call them and actually ask their opinion? You better hope that their the scurge you make them out to be.

I will wait for your anwser to my question posed, "What would you do if you were the owner of the Amoco in Michigan, ND?"

f


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

I don't think Drakekiller was trying to take down any company's. What he was trying to say is that there are some company's that own Outfitters in this state and they gain more by not having Caps than the gas station in Michigan. The Curriers own 2 company's that are both million dollar business. How is that helping the small towns?Sure they are bringing people out there but they aren't there to stay in the small town hotel.The Outfitters that taken in all the clients, feed them, and outside of the local bars, no one else is really proffiting off of it......

they are just keeping the Rich, Rich. Making them even more money than the gas station, and like they are going to help the gas attendants was their windows...
Some of us are from fargo but we don't all have the same payroll. If we did we'd probably be more unified. I hunt and fish to eat, and now it's becoming harder for some of us to eat, because more people want money!!
Mav....


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

I like to refer to the article in the Aug. edition of ND Outdoors. A big PERCEPTION is that non-resident hunters provide the bulk of outdoor recreation related spending in ND. Reality Of $468.5 million in total spending by hunters and anglers $402.70 million was spent by residents or 86%. I found this interesting. We are the majority of the money spent, by far. Also of the $468.5 million, $262 million was spent in rural communities. A lot of this was spent for fishing while $75.3 million spent by resident hunters.

I guess my point is that the resident hunter has a lot to say financially and I would say spend your money in the communities that are friendly and want the business whether resident or not. Some of the towns on that list we have quit hunting/staying in, and that means for everything, now we stick to the areas that are more friendly to land access for all hunters. I really don't think a business is dumb enough to want to boycott resident hunters. If they are then business can't be that bad to turn away a piece of $75 million.

I am surprised Scheels is on the list because why would you publicly take a side on the issue considering a lot of their business is from the big, bad resident hunters from Fargo, Grand Forks??? Hurry up and open the store Chris so there is another alternative. S


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

gander,
1) we talked to roughly 15 or so land owners
2)they all said no and only a few gave a reason
3)the main reason was they had friends or family coming. One leases his land to some wisconsin boys.
4)I don't know if it was because I am a resident. the ones that gave me no reason I did not ask cause it is none of my buisness. they say no and I say sorry to bother you.
5)no one asked me what part of ND I am from this was 2 years ago
6)no, this was our first trip up there.
I hope this answers your questions

dakota kid, so what do you say to land owners who refuse to let people hunt because they are from Jamestown or Fargo?

It would be nice if we could work together. Kinda hard when one side gives and the other side takes.


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

Maverick,
You hit it on the head :splat: Places like woodland resort on devils lake. they house, feed and sell gas. there guests do not even need to go to Devils lake. If anything woodland resort steals buisness away from Devils lake. those people who traditionaly stayed in Devils Lake now stay out at woodland resort. they eat. buy gas, bait and lures and anything else they need right there. So they are not helping the community at all. they are stealing its buisness. Not to forget how the owner of the Spirit Water Inn complained to Tony Dean about how the residnts of ND were aligned with Peta. His post should still be on Tony's site if you want to check it out.


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## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

Jimboy, Mav, Eric,

Thanks for the reply. IMHO, the list generated by Mr. DK is one of apples and oranges. I don't think you can compare Woodland Resort, a known G/O, with the Mom and Pop Mainstreet service businesses like the Prairie Winds Restaurant in Wishek or Johnson's store in Michigan.

Just because these small businesses, which benefit the entire community via the service they provide (unlike your point about WR, which I absolutely agree with) testify or write a letter in support of a certain bill doesn't automatically make them "against" you or your position. WR is clearly tying up access to land, tell me how the Michigan Amoco is? Yet you have them both lumped under the "anti-resident" banner.

Thats drawing one big black line down the middle and unnecesarily dividing folks that probably have more in common than they think.

Eric,

I have read that magazine article and its very interesting. I would point out the "note" in italics on the left colum on page 20. That "new" $$ is whats keeping your smalls towns floating (albeit barely). Unfortunetly, in the big economic picture of ND, hunting now has a significant economic impact. That is a direct result of ND's overall dismal economic condition. So is this new $$ worth it to you guys, the residents of ND? I think the scary part of the equation is what would happen if you took that new NR $$ out of the equation. I agree that Regent or Wishek or Michigan are towns destined for ghost towns (stricly due to age demographics) but is prolonging the death via new NR hunter $$ worth it to have an open gas station at 2 AM in Michigan? You residents are the ones that will predominantly enjoy that benefit.

Jimboy,

In response to your question, I would label that farmers thinking a bit extreme as well. However, can you blame him when the loudest voices come from the cities you mentioned?

Its time to stop dwelling about the session and starts thinking about the new plan or direction to go. Whats going on with the FB suit? You have alot of NR coming to hunt this year, figure out a way to tap into that resource for support. How about an organization to bring attention to the access issue that is not dominated by extremists? Can you generate enough resident signatures to bring the access issue to the ballot box. Lets start a referrel capping the amount of G/O licenses sold or land that they can control. If there was a working group formed to examine all angles with all freelance hunters involved I think you could begin to make some progress. Alot of NR hunters drive thru Fargo on their way west; post up a meeting to discuss the issues and you may find you have a great resource both financially and otherwise.

f


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

ND's boycotting ND business, especially if it means sending $ out of ND, is bad for ND, period. Rather than viewing the above as any sort of boycott list, perhaps it should be seen a a list of people/groups that present an opportunity to tell "the rest of the story" to.

For instance, as ND Gander mentioned, at the request of DLCC, FMCVB came to Bismarck to testify against 2048 in the HNRC and largely followed the DLCC mantra. When Cole got home, his phone rang off the hook and he spent the next several days being educated about the issues, all of them. FMCVB decided they wouldn't take any further positions on the hunting bills that session.

ND Gander, it's all well and fine to say everyone should take a step back, calm down and find a way to work things out in a positive fashion. We tried that last session and the only response we got from oppostion was "no!" Not "no, but......", just plain old "no!" If it's to be anything other than an all out, no-compromise, see who has the most votes fight, I think it's up to those who opposed 2048 to extend the first olive branch. I don't know where you fit into all of this, but do you have a proposal that you'd like to bring forward into this new cooperative effort.


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

jimboy,

I am going to try and help you get your foot out of your mouth as it relates to Woodland Resort not contributing to the city of Devils Lake economy.

1-they have limited housing for their own use and use a local motel for overflow on a regular basis. 
2- they regularly send people to other restaurants in town including Fetch's recommended The Ranch
3- They do sell gas for boats, but sell very little for vechiles. The gas they sell for boats is on the lake and much appreciated by all as they pay tax on it not like the other gas vendor on the lake.

You best get your facts straight before putting your head so far up your ---that you can't see anymore. Woodland Resort is a great contributor to the economy of Devils Lake and is a much need and well respected memeber of the community. And, unlike the so called wonderful building on the hill 7-miles south, they pay property taxes and collect sales taxes so you can drive on the roads and enjoy our great area.

Also, you only asked 15 land owners????? Seems like you expected the red carpet with no extra work to get your kill. There are over 1500 land owners in Ramsey county alone!!!!!! Next time, if you so choose, come up in August and spend two or three days and really work on getting access for the hunting season in the fall, not the day you want to hunt. :withstupid: 
E


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

Econ,
We came up the day before or can't you read, and do you have any idea how long it takes to find these land owners. we got the names off the posters and then had to hunt them down. You comments are insulting and uncalled for and as far as woodland resort is concerned they take buisness away from Devils lake period. the few crumbs that they spread around is nothing compared to the amount of dollars that has been diverted from Devils Lake and into the pockets of Woodland resort. go count your money or calculate an inflation index but do not spew forth this garbage that woodland resort does so much for Devils Lake.


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## ND Gander (Jul 9, 2002)

Jimboy:

How do you know so much about WR when you have only spent 2 days in the Lake Region in two years?


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

ND Gander, Liquor Locker-101
Number one, I never said anything about boycotting anyone. Maybe the next time a resident hunter spends some "new money" at one of these places they can point out where they live. When it comes to all the others the ND G spoke of I will be dealing with them in the future, work in progress. About those areas you spoke of I think they are doing a good job themselves in regard to resident sportsman or should I say "SO called sportsman."
Kevin Hayer


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

Gander I fish up there every year and I had to dock at woodland for fishing tournaments.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Econ.


> I would also have you speak with Chris Hustad about Woodland Resort. I think he was just there in the last month and even had a few with the so called enemy!!!!!!!!


How'd you know that Chris was up there, or were you swinging drinks with Cootkiller!!! @ Woodland Resorts,or do you know the Liqour Locker. I don't suppose they get some liquor from you? I know who works there. :withstupid:

So what if Chris was up there!!! It's called PR. Keep you friends close, but keep your enemies closer!!! Words to live by!!!

Mav....


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

jimboy,

Oh, I guess I mispoke, you spent a few hours the day before you wanted to hunt. Guess that seems like enough for your expectations. :eyeroll: I do have an idea how long it takes to build relationships with landowners, you obivously do not. If Woodland resort takes so much from DL, then why does the lodging tax and restaurant tax continue to increase each year? Seems you still are on the outside looking in.  I think you are insulting yourself. By the way, when does your money hungry self leave this great state??????? By the way, do you know anyone at Woodland Resort? You sure seem to supposedly know alot about what they do and do not do for the Devils Lake area.

Maverick,

Too bad you are so young and do not uderstand liquor laws in ND. I will give you some much needed education: a licensed liquor establishment may only purchase its product from a license wholesaler and no retail establishment may hold a wholesale license. If this is unclear to you, then go to the NDCC and look it up so you are clear. Glad you know everyone who works there, maybe you can stop by and have one and only one as I am sure that's all you could handle, if you are even old enough to enter the Pub.

Drakekiller,

I stand corrected on the boycott accusation. Your underlining theme seems to be advocating one.

Econ


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Well well it seems that we both work in the liqior business, and you and I know the rules but they are not always a straight arrow( especially in the liquor business), otherwise people would lose money. Which it seems like you so tied on.......

and to stop you before you put you foot further in your mouth you would know where I work!!!I have posted it quit a few times....So I should be able to make it to a PUB, unless you don't serve RESIDENTS?

Mav.....


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

Mav,

I don't have time to read all the posts you make, since you work in the business, then I will consrtue your comment about selling them liquor as a joke as you know it is illegal.

And, as I have posted many times in the past, I would serve to all, not just residents or non-residents, all.   ( in moderation of course!)

Econ


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

econ, OOOOOOO hostility. Calling me insulting and money hungry all in one paragraph. Somebody didn't get their bran today. :lol: People like you make it so easy to leave. I will be a NR and came back to crush you with my wallet. :laugh: why stay and watch what I love go down the tubes. enlighten us as to how you go about establishing relationships. Does it require the use of KY jelly? :laugh:


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I've been out of town for a wedding in Bozman, MT since Friday. I just drove 12 hours and walked in the door so I'm going to try be brief since I can barely keep my eyes open.



> Hypocrisy, it rears its ugly head again. The vocal supporters of restricting non-resident hunters were willing to forgive Chris Hustad for allowing commercial hunting operations to advertise on this site because it is just good business for him but now you are beginning the process of boycotting the businesses that do no share your views on the value of non-residents to their businessees and the state.


I'm not going to get into a pissing match over something someone else posted on my site, so I'll just quote what every user on the forum agrees with before they sign up on the site:



> Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.





> I would also have you speak with Chris Hustad about Woodland Resort. I think he was just there in the last month and even had a few with the so called enemy!!!!!!!!


Why take shots at me for this? Some good friends I haven't fished with in years were up at DL at the same time as me, and I jumped at the chance to spend a day on the water with them. With all the time that Kyle and myself had spent this past year working against each other on issues, it was refreshing to have a beer and BS for a bit....and good ol' cootkiller as well. We agree to disagree, but I'm open minded enough to listen what they had to say.



> Eric,
> 
> Better ask your brother about his access problems for the upcoming season in the area you have hunted for the past few years. You might have a real eye opening talk with him.
> 
> E


Sorry econ, but that's pretty juvenile threat. I've never taken shots at you, and have gone out of my way to get you posting on the site when you had problems with your computer. I never posted your business, and no one found out because of me.

Welcome home I guess. :eyeroll:

Since it's pretty obvious that some don't understand my forum policy, especially when you agreed before posting here....I took the time tonight to lay out the policy into more detail so maybe you'll understand. IF YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IT THE FIRST TIME, READ THIS BEFORE POSTING AGAIN. I will not tolerate being threatened on my own site, especially for something I had no part of. I'm sure everyone can at least give me that respect. If you have a problem with that, you can forward it here.


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## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

Chris,

Welcome back from MT! Isn't Bozeman a great town? McKenzie River Pizza is top notch...

This is an interesting thread; even more interesting now that the title has been changed.

f


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## economics 101 (Jan 30, 2003)

I see the name of the thread has been changed to

"Businesses supporting commercialized hunting"

Please define this title for me.

Thanks, Econ


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Thanks DK,

It was a great place to visit, however the 100+ degree temps were miserable, and with all the wild fires going on everything was hazey. Next time I hope I get more than 1 day so I can spend some time fishing the Gallatine. That's one beautiful stream.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Economics 101 
a.k.a. Eric Boren owner of Liquor Locker and bar at the Great American Inn.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Econ


> I don't have time to read all the posts you make, since you work in the business, then I will consrtue your comment about selling them liquor as a joke as you know it is illegal.


You sure could have fooled me about the not reading ever post! It seems you have words for everybody about what's going on, on everything?
Not to mention affending potential customers! I know where I'm NOT going to get my liquor, and you know how we all like our liquor! Too bad your loss.

You know what half this problem is....You don't want to listen to the youth of hunting! You posted:


> Too bad you are so young and do not uderstand liquor laws in ND. I will give you some much needed education


Not knowing my age you stuck your foot in your mouth!!!Then you you stated that you'll give me some much needed education? Unless you were meaning Architecture ( which I'm sure you don't know a whole lot about), THEN maybe you could teach me, but outside of that I think I'll leave my listening to some one with the DEGREE.

Let's go hunting some time! I'll give you some much needed education! Whatever the game, what ever the conditions!
That's what this site is for...Finding friends and getting to know the other people but you can't be friends with anyone who wants a cap. So I ask you, do you make more money off of NR's or Res.

Mav....


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## NDJ (Jun 11, 2002)

Didn't the Great American Inn raise it's rent for it's chairitable gaming sites(DL Rural FD) office??? So that they would vacate it??? They wanted to put in a laundy room ERRR..an office for Randy Frost.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

Maybe Hilldebrand will apply for Randy's old job ??? or TD ??? Maybe Hoeven after the next election  :beer: or Coot ???  :lol:

But then our luck econ101 will run for Gov & win :eyeroll:


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## Scraper (Apr 1, 2002)

Econ,

It is sad that you attack people for only spending a day trying to find a place to hunt. You should instead be trying to fix what is wrong with that situation. Jimboy would likely be coming back happy if he had found a place to hunt. I know it's obvious, but you seem to ignoring it.

We have been hunting up there for years and we have definitely seen a decrease in availability of land. Why the hassle?

It has been said before, but if you guys would spend as much time trying to improve the access situation and less time shutting people out, you would realize the benefit. Everyone wants to go somewhere that they feel welcome. When is the last time that you have portrayed the DL area as somewhere that people are welcome to come?

This is hunting. It is supposed to be fun.


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## Miller (Mar 2, 2002)

Bump.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Why would a business bite the hand that feeds them? The Liquor Locker has made their stand and stated their position regarding the hunting situation in the Lake Region. That is Eric's perogative. It is also my perogative to start buying my off-sale at Wally's Liquors and I don't think that I will be the only one. I hope he gets enough business from the G/O group and the one month of non-resident traffic to make up for our full year of business.
Retribution is not always the way to do things but sometimes it is the only way.


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## ND Gander (Jul 9, 2002)

Hunter: You need to read the rules of posting. Chris made a point in one of his past posts you must have decided to blow off.

_This forum system is not a venue for personal or private vendetta's. Keep your personal business as just that - personal. This forum is not a venue for the resolution of personal disputes with members or companies_

This is not a place to slam good companys. You should think before you type............


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

It wasn't a personal attack or vendetta, just stating a fact. A fact that either you accept or not. :beer:


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## ND Gander (Jul 9, 2002)

Just because a business cant support caps on the number of visitors that come to our State is no reason to make personal slams and try to direct customers to his competitior. By the way Wallys is very pro tourisim and did not support 2048. If fact find an off sale company that did.


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## jimboy (Apr 1, 2003)

thanks scraper, But in all fairness to Econ despite his sarcasm I should have taken more time off to better survey the situation. this did take place 2 years ago and I was under the impression that they welcomed people with open arms. I showed my buddy this thread and he said we talked to more than 15 farmers. 15, 20, does it really matter? now that I know certain facts I will adjust my expenditures accordingly and encourage my friends to do the same. Sorry Econ, I thought being courteous, honest and showing respect was enough to gain access. Apparently not! Anyway it disheartens me so to realize that I and my friends have spent mucho dollaro in you buisness over the years. But we can adjust our expenditures accordingly. :thumb:


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

If you are in the Ashley area hunting or fishing make sure you stop in and have a cold one at the Roost Bar, The owner Russ L. spoke out in favor of SB 2048 . Thanks Russ!! If you you know any business owners that supported or support the resident hunters post them also, so we can support them.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Russ is a great guy and he's always open to good people, residents and non-residents. They make a great pizza there also!

Mav....


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## sniperboy (Sep 2, 2003)

Have any of you guys ever personally met Dan Currier from Dakota Fence? I've shot sporting clays with the guy and he is one of the nicest people I've ever met!! I did not know he had anything to do with the Cannonball Corp. I will have to talk to him about it next time I see him. I will reserve comment about that till after I talk to him. But if I need some fencing done...I WILL call him first!! Dan is vary avid hunter and we need guys like him on OUR side!! Please don't judge someone before you even meet them.


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

just wanted to say hi econ :wink:


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## Qwack (May 25, 2002)

so, does anyone know what store is the main competitor to the Liquor Locker? :lol: :wink:


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## crete (Oct 6, 2002)

This talk of boycotting businesses is childish. They are trying to protect their livelihood. I am a former Resident, now a NR and I have established great friendships with a lot of businesses in the small towns we hunt near. They are all in need of business from *HUNTERS* and they count on it. I have hunted with some of the business owners you listed and i can tell you they do more for hunting in the state of North Dakota then most of us could ever dream of doing. Lets support them and enjoy hunting while we still can.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

WONDER WHAT TOOK 'EM SO LONG? DM
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
10/29/03 
Rural business owners hurting this season

By RICHARD HINTON, Bismarck Tribune
Ask the same question of small-town business owners from Ashley to Underwood and Medina to Mott, and the answers pretty much are the same.

Business is down this year compared to hunting seasons past.

Motels that used to be booked for weeks straight were hit with flurries of cancellations this year. Cafes aren't seeing as many customers wearing camouflage or blaze orange as they once did. Convenience stores and fuel stops are either down a bit or barely holding their own.

The reasons?

Fewer out-of-state hunters is the foremost reason cited. Some business owners in duck country acknowledge that dry conditions, warm weather and northern ducks not moving down also might be culprits. Pheasant numbers are up this year, however, but people in pheasant country who cater to hunters also say they are seeing fewer hunters.

"Without hunting season, small towns are going to die. That's what we thrive on," said Jennifer Zentner, the manager of Olson's Super Valu in Mott, who said she hasn't seen as much business this hunting season.

"A lot (of nonresident hunters) said they are not coming back," said Rodney Kuss, who owns the OK Motel in Steele. "They feel like they're not welcome. If that's the case, why should they come here and spend money?"

Money is the issue for these small towns. And most of that money is new money, cash brought in and spent by visiting hunters. Estimates vary, but a good guess would be that hunting season can account for 40 percent of the annual income for a small-town business that caters to hunters. Some business owners who have put a pencil to their numbers estimate that business is down 25 percent or worse.

Most of the blame is directed at North Dakota's new nonresident hunting regulations, three regs specifically:

* Visiting hunters are limited to the number of days they can hunt pheasants on one license, one 10-day period or two five-day periods. Nonresidents can buy as many small game licenses as they want, but last year, a nonresident could use one license to hunt for the entire season.

* Nonresident hunters also couldn't hunt on state wildlife management lands or acreage enrolled in Private Lands Open to Sportsmen or similar programs during the first week of pheasant season.

* Out-of-state duck hunters were limited to 14 days of hunting, only seven of which could be spent hunting one of the two small zones in the central or southeastern portions of the state. The nonresident duck opener also was a week later than the opener for residents.

License fees went up, too. Visitors who paid less than $100 last year for the privilege of hunting pheasants and ducks are paying $185 to do the same combo hunt this season.

The finger-pointing is aimed everywhere. The state Game and Fish Department gets its share. So does the Legislature, which was responsible for some of the new nonresident hunting rules, and Gov. John Hoeven, who signs the hunting proclamations. Some people even point at the state Division of Tourism.

"It hurts. Small communities make their money three months out of the year, and they are taking it away from us," said Roy Schiwal, the owner of George's Office, a Mott bar. Although the first week of the season was good, Schiwal said he's seen a noticeable drop-off in business the second week.

"A lot of dynamics come into play," said Dean Hildebrand, the director of the state Game and Fish Department. "The majority of the people I have talked to have liked this approach. We're trying to balance and distribute our hunters. I've had pretty good acceptance on this."

One dynamic could be that pheasants are better distributed throughout the state this season, Hildebrand said. "There are lots of pheasant north of I-94," he said, "so lot of hunters may not go to the southwest."

Another dynamic could be the increase in outfitters who offer complete accommodations, Hildebrand said. Outfitters with lodges that offer rooms, meals and other amenities as part of the package could be taking away business from small towns. In 10 years, licensed outfitters in North Dakota have jumped from about 50 to almost 400, Hildebrand said.

Despite the fee increases, nonresident license sales seem to be going strong. Out-of-state waterfowl license sales sat at 25,292 Tuesday morning, said Paul Schadewald, chief of administrative services for the department. Last year, license sales were capped at 30,000.

The number of small game licenses sold to nonresidents was 15,821 on Tuesday. That total doesn't include paper licenses that are sold through 500 vendors throughout the state, however. Last year, 22,840 nonresidents bought small game licenses.

In the small towns, the hunting season often creates a ripple effect. Businesses add part-time help to keep up with hunting-season business boom.

"Last year, mornings here were packed, and we had the help come in with us," said Lambert Kastrow, who with his wife Alice, owns the Wagon Wheel Cafe in Hebron.

"Now we do it alone," added Alice Kastrow.

In Medina, bookings at the North Country Lodge are a barometer for many other business owners, said Sherry Schmidt, who owns the lodge along with her husband.

"They call and ask, 'How many do you have coming?' " she said.

So far, the lodge has been full only one weekend. "It affects 40 to 50 other families," she said. "The money we make now has to pay all the bills for the next 11 months."

Many of the motels hit with cancellations from out-of-state hunting parties recouped the business through drop-in hunters who saw the vacancy signs. "We used to send them to homes (that are available for rent during the season)," said Yvonne Peyer, owner of the Mott Motel.

Mark Wiegand, the new owner of Mott's Tailfeather Inn, expected to get some of those referrals, but he estimated the inn was doing half the business that the previous owner did last year. "Repeat business is down 75 or 80 percent," he said.

The feeling that the changes in hunting regulations are ruinous isn't unanimous, however. Some business owners declined interviews, and others didn't want their names or businesses used. Their reasons ranged from "mixed feelings" in their communities about the changes in the regulations to not making their neighbors angry and possibly taking their business elsewhere. "This is a small town," one said.

Nonresident license record-keeping shows that 90 percent to 92 percent of nonresidents hunt in North Dakota for fewer than 10 days, said Rep. Todd Porter, R-Mandan, the vice chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee and one of the sponsors for two bills that affected out-of-state hunters. Toss in those out-of-staters who will buy a second small game license, and 98 percent of the state's visiting hunters are taken care of, Porter said.

"You are only missing some border people who basically hunted the entire season on one license," he explained, "and they are very much a minority (of the state's total nonresident hunters)."

Much of the extra money in license fees is going into access programs for hunting, said Ron Rauschenberger, a policy adviser on the governor's staff. The state is spending $10.5 million over 31/2 years to improve access by adding more acreage to private land initiative programs such as PLOTS and CoverLocks. Either through short-term or long-term arrangements, the programs basically pay a landowner to open some parcels to walk-in hunting access.

"It will benefit residents and nonresidents alike," Rauschenberger said.

The rural business owners will benefit when there's more land accessible to hunters. "If we can continue improving access, people will come. We have a great resource here," he said. "At the same time, we need to keep quality hunting for residents."

During the session, the tourism industry was successful in making sure there were no caps on visiting hunter numbers, said Tourism Director Sara Otte Coleman.

"It's a political issue. We need to balance the resource and keep local hunters happy," she said. "There is a lot of work going on."

Nonresident hunters shouldn't feel unwelcome in North Dakota, said Rep. Jon Nelson, R-Wolford, chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee. "The votes that were taken (in the 2003 Legislature) show just the opposite. Every bill that restricted nonresidents was defeated," he said. "The only negative that could be taken was the PLOTS ban, but that was a better situation than locking out nonresidents entirely for the first week."

But some out-of-state hunters believe the welcome mat has been yanked out from under them.

"Some of the regulars said that with the new law changes, they're not going to come back," said Paul Miller, who owns the Dakota Family Restaurant in Ashley.

Jane Rademacher, owner of the Lincoln Park Motel in Underwood, said she had cancellations because of the changes in regulations, but "the hunters who have come back for lots of years came back. The newer ones changed their minds."

Access has become an issue around Ashley, said Kristy Glaesman, owner of the Ashley Drive-In. "There is a lot of land posted up compared to a year ago or two years ago," she said, noting that she's not seeing as many hunters driving through to buy a milkshake and a quick hamburger this year.

"In little towns, we look forward to hunting season," said Dawn Dallman, who owns the Double D Cafe in Lehr. "It's like in big towns when businesses have the Christmas season."

Kuss, the Sterling motel owner, has another analogy. "Big cities get conventions all of the time," he said. "Hunting season is our convention."

Pat Guthmiller, owner of the Coffee Cup Cafe and the Decoy Bar in Medina, wonders what upcoming statewide elections might bring.

"I guessing this governor won't get our votes in this area," she said.

She also points a finger at lawmakers. "I think the Legislature hurt our town bad. They did nothing for the little people."

Nelson, the Wolford state representative, is among those who knows you can't please all of the people all of the time. "Certainly trying to create a balance on this issue is not easiest thing to do," he said.

(Reach reporter Richard Hinton at 250-8256 or [email protected].)

Mr. Hinton, the wrtier of this article needs to hear from you on why your spending is down-----notice that resident spending barely gets a mention, nor does the explosion of outfitters nor the mushrooming fee hunting "disease" so prevalent in SW ND and the basin.


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I have made one if not 2 or 3 trips for pheasants or sharptails for nearly 20 years or more - Not this year

Chalk it up to Poor Management & Leadership & the result is everyone is Pizzed :eyeroll:


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Great story! Sounds like some people are paying attention to what's happenng. Thank you Mr. Hildenbrand, Porter and Nelson for the logical statements. When the access issues are addressed there will be more hunters in the future than we have seen in the past.

Just in case any of the above are reading these posts.....the amount of POSTED land by your own neighbors is what's keeping many people from hunting and spending money in your small towns.....that and the LACK of water.

Tough to hunt ducks when the local outfitter leases the good land....and hard to sell dinners in the cafe when the same outfitter provides meals and lodging.

I've said this before.....if the hunting season is your "X-mas" then go out and bring the people in by "selling" what you have for a resource. By selling your resource, I don't mean charging people to hunt but get the local farmers to open land for a week or two to all, put on steak dinners, prizes for the biggest tail feathers, buffalo suppers, church potlocks, the biggest duck or goose, the smallest sharptail, the list is endless. Here's one that would bring them in.....a local community giving away the lease for a year to a new pick-up.....want to bet how many guys you could fill up the local bars restaurants and hotels with. You guys in the small towns have a captive audience during hunting season......do a little/lot of promotion and bring the people to your town. IT'S NOT THAT HARD!


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

I have already heard grumblings that have started from the CVB end that it is us selfish resident hunters are the ones responsible for the shortfalls in $$ being spent. When in reality it is the CVB's themselves and a few self-serving legislators that can shoulder most of the blame.

We instruct the Game and Fish Dept to conduct a study and come up with recommendations, look at those plans, then throw them aside because of $$ in their eyes. They(the legislators anf the Gov) were told what was a succeptable # of waterfowl hunters, did they listen? No, because they are the real experts! :eyeroll:


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

Yes the increase in fees probably had something to do with the decrease but I think the major issues are the lack of land access, fee hunting and the dry and hot conditions. North Dakota is on a path towards commercialization of hunting and I'm afraid that hunting is going to priced out of the budget of the little guy. When you have 100,000's of acres tied up by outfitters like Cannonball, Sheldon Schlect out of Streeter and in the Medina area and Devils Lake I think it paints a bleak future and trend towards pay to hunt. The number of leased acres in North Dakota is on the rise and most people cannot afford to hire a guide or pay to hunt on land. Perhaps some of those people are pricing themselves out of the market and their own greed and land grabbing is starting to catch up with them and hurting their local businesses. If all the land in your area is posted and fee hunting is the norm then I'm afraid you will only attract a certain affluent type of hunter. Quite frankly I think they are slowly digging their own grave and trying to pass the buck on to the rest of us and the legislature. They run their businesses without regulation and have gobbled up much of the prime hunting in their area and now when they have priced their customers out of the market they are whining and pointing fingers at everyone else as the reason for their demise. Without access the little guy cannot afford to hunt and lets face it most of us are little guys. They are beginning to drowned in their own greed and I'm not sure I sympathize with their cause.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Just goes to show that you shouldn't pin all of your hopes on an unpredictable resource. Sooner or later these businesses are going to have to take off the blindfolds and really see who's on their side. It's so disappointing too, nobody wants to see rural North Dakota fall apart. Commercial hunting won't subsidize the community, it'll cripple it. It'll get much worse before it gets any better unless something is done.

Get active guys!!

http://nodakoutdoors.com/signup.php


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

My response to Mr. Hinton (I will post his reply if he actually responds):

As a former resident now living in California, I read your article and was severely disappointed at your lack of true insight into the problems with dwindling hunting numbers this fall. First of all, you absolutely ignored the expansion of guides and outfitters and the displacement affect they are having because prime lands are leased and/or monopolized. You didn't even mention this fact, which truly shows both ignorance and lack of insight to truly understand your own story. Second, you failed to mention companies like Cannonball triggered the fee hunting era and basically have converted the entire southwestern portion of ND into pay to play hunting for the rich and privileged. Somehow, you failed to mention what it costs to bring a gun into the field in this area. Third, you somehow failed to mention that posting of land is at all-time highs because groups like Farm Bureau are manipulating their members to further their cause of both a trend toward fee hunting and higher membership numbers. Fourth, you also somehow failed to mention that the Tourism Department has never spent $1 toward habitat or the resource, but somehow they have been extremely successful promoting hunting to non-residents. Fifth, you also somehow forgot to mention that out of state corporations and high wage earners are buying tracts of land for the sole purpose of hunting. No stretch of the imagination to say that they are posting their land and not allowing access. Sixth, you also forgot to mention how the purchase of land by non-residents is driving up land values and domino effect it is having on young (or old) start up farmers. Seventh, you also forgot to mention that the legislature almost passed Senate Bill 2048, but extreme politics and a huge lobbying effort by Farm Bureau and the Guides and Outfitters dismantled this bill into a joke. Eighth, you somehow forgot to mention that the Governor established the plan for zones, while dismissing input from the NDGF and issuing a gag order to those same employees. Ninth, you also somehow forgot to mention that public land is where the average wage earner is being forced because fee hunting is so widespread. Tenth, you somehow forgot to ask North Dakota resident sportsmen what are their feelings on the issues.

You should be ashamed as your article showed that greed and selfish interests are priority number one. Do yourself a favor and actually get out of your office and interview the people who are out living it, rather than just those who are solely profiting off of the resource.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

I'll just echo some of the other sentiments:

If the hunting economies are reduced this season, it is unrelated to restrictions in any way deterring nonresidents up to this point. For every "I'm nover coming back", there seems to be at least one "making my first trip..."

Because of the licensing format change, waterfowl license sales are already at or VERY near the number of nonresident waterfowl hunters from last year (right, Randy, since 15% of last year's waterfowl licenses were held by non-waterfowlers). Perhaps too much early and mid-season pressure, combined with warm weather at the same time, combined further with significantly less habitat this year, led to shorter or canceled trips because hunting just wasn't what it should have been. License sale numbers don't justify any significant waterfowl expenditure drop.

As to upland, the sales also appear to be tracking close to last year's sales. Keep in mind, these licenses are still available at local vendors, so the numbers cited above so not include local vendor sales, which won't be available until after the first of the year. Contributing, I think Dean and some of the other the earlier posters are correct in that this year some of the "nontraditional" pheasant areas are competing very well with the traditional ones. Further, my guess is that some of the traditional areas are starting to feel the pinch of and are getting a little taste of the net effects of "exclusivity". Less hunters on more land through buying/leasing/outfitting will produce a net sum loss to the rural economies, and the traditional pheasant areas, which continue to get tighter and tighter on access, may be getting their first taste of this.

If these claims of reduced hunting economies are true as opposed to posturing, the license sales will show that restrictions were not the culprit, but instead maybe, just maybe, some of us are right that this hunting resource is not a limitless flowing well, and that there will be negative consequences even for Main Street to letting this thing run down the tracks with the throttle to the stops. Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered......


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Is it possible to combine the post by Dan and Bioman into 1 letter to the editor of the Bismarck Trib?

Then have a way to have all of us that want too,be able sign it and send it there?


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Ken, splendid idea! bioman and Dan really nailed it. Set it up guys, if you are willing, and maybe use the etree to request signatures?

I had a chance to sit in on my county Farm Bureau meeting last month, as well as catch a few other Farm Bureau interviews and presentations lately. Apparently the state organization is issueing "talking points" to these folks as they are parroting the same phrases.

"plenty of room for nonresident hunters"
"we defeated every nonresident hunting bill"

Strange that Mr Hinton forgot to mention the Farm Bureau lawsuit to shut down all hunting. I wonder what those business owners would say about it?


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Ditto....great idea, count my signature in!!!!!!


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

I'm in - I can get my tang all tongueled easier than most :roll:


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Guys, I have no pride of authorship, and I suspect B-man would feel the same. Cut, paste, edit, whatever and get some letters going with the other side of the story. Here are your applicable email addresses for editorials:

GF Herald: [email protected] 
Bismarck Trib: [email protected] 
Fargo Forum: [email protected] 
Minot Daily News: [email protected]


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Dan...wouldn't it be better to have one letter with a lot of signatures than a whole bunch with only one.Whenever I see an ad or letter signed by a lot of people or organizations it seemd to have more punch than just one signature.

Especially if we can get a bunch of signatures.

First of all is it possible to do this as a group?

Dan and Bio would be just 2 of many voices.


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

Dick and Ken:

Ditto Dan's sentiment, feel free to use whatever portions you like, edit, delete, whatever. I have no pride of ownership.

-Ryan


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Ken, my hunch is that individual letters are more persuasive - shows you took the time to form your thoughts rather than just pen your name to someone else's. Besides, we'd have a tough time coordinating one letter to be signed by many. Guys, work with some of the ideas we're kicking around, give it a personal flair and get some letters to the Trib and others. Pull a Paul Harvey, and clue them in on the rest of the story.


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## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

I have talked to several non-resident upland hunters this fall in the eastern part of the state that said"why drive 300 more miles,pay 50.00-150.00$/per gun,or try to hunt the few public areas in the SW when you can get birds here".Kind of funny how none of the motels in the eastern part of the state were not mentioned.This fall I have seen way more upland hunters in the east than any other year.


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

Dang Mallard, you stole my thunder. Back in September I believe, I heard Dan Hare from PF on ND Outdoors SAturday morning on KFGO talking about the pheasant outlook. One of his comments struck home. I am paraphrasing but he said one of the most amazing things about this years increases in pheasants is that it runs through virtually the entire range. That means much better hunting in SW MN, so fewer of them will travel. Why drive 350 iles when uncle Fred says the pheasants are really good on the home farm?

Also, did they stop at the drive in in Forman, or at the Hotel in Lidgerwood? I have been hunting the home farm just over the border for the past five days, and all of the clerks and the hardware store owner says it is a huge increase in business this year. People are flexing into new areas, just like they did into Mott 15 years ago. I will be very suprised if anyone can show a net decrease in statewide hunting spending this year. Maybe the NR component, but not the total. The dollars may be spent in different places, but that is business effects, not political.

Buddies from Ohio left at 300 thismorning. Had this conversation with them over cool beverages last evening. And I quote"As long as we can keep drawing liscenses, we will keep coming. This place is so far away in experiance from how things are in Ohio that even if we harvested 10% of thebirds we just did on this trip, the sunrises, the wicked winds, the tornado of birds, and the rise of a single wild rooster will keep us coming. The five days are our annual sojourn, and the are famous at work. Please dont change the lottery system. We would rather skip a year and see the quality continue than be guaranteed a lesser product every year." An airline pilot from Cincinatee.

I include this to make a point. Just because some people say that because you changed that, I am never coming back, other people will come just becasue of it. Andyou know what? They just might be a group of people you would rather be having. These boys did not pay for access, picked up all there hulls, swept the garage, shut the gates, and did everything we ask them to do to stay in good graces. Night have something to do with planning for months to get your liscence and all of that. Sort of like the cold in ND, keeps the riffraf out.


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## DJRooster (Nov 4, 2002)

As far as fees go I think it cost's aprroximately $100 for a 10 day upland game liscense and so that equates to $10/day for the price of admission so a slight increase in the fees still is a great bargain for a quality product. In the same time period in some areas the price for a day of access has gone from $0 to I have heard as much as $200/gun so I don't think the cost of a liscense is the reason for people not going to some areas to hunt. It doesn't take an economics degree to put a pencil to these figures. Also, these fees go to support the best Game and Fish Dept you will find. These people are smart people, know the resource and are very receptive to the needs of the common everyday hunter. Their monies go for enforcement, education, habitat and access so there is no better group for non-residents and residents to give our financial support to.


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## fireball (Oct 3, 2003)

You know what gets me, in this whole discussion of resident and non resident economics, all I ever hear is..."these business people are your friends and neighbors, so by boycotting them, you are harming your communities"...who the heck are WE? We are the people that keep these business' going 24/7, 365. We live here, we hunt/fish here, we take those long weekend fishing trips to DL in the summer, bringing alot of money to the communities. We are the same people who drive 3 hrs to hunt up in Rugby, DL, Bottinuea. We bring these small town hotels, cafes, and gas stations money as well. Maybe these business' need to remember that we are their neighbors and customers as well. We keep them alive all yr, not just for 35 days. I have managed restaurants in the waterfowl world of north central ND, and will tell you, resident hunters are the lifeblood of ND. It is great to get the extra business for that month of Oct., but it is nowhere to be found after that. When Joe Hunter brings his family in to eat every sunday after church, that is the business that builds strong communities.

Don't slap the hand that feeds you, resident money is the reason anyone in this state can run a business in a small town, nr money is a bonus, and if making a cpl thousand extra for one month means more than helping the people who keep the doors open yr around, then we have a problem. There is nothing wrong with suggesting solidarity towards business' who forget the horse that got them there. It baffles me that some people think it is OK for these business' to speak out against resident hunters, but when we form some sort of front to speak against them, we are the bad guys. Sorry, but someone takes a swing at me, I am swinging back.
Go ahead and take the punches, the more you give, the more they will take. Obviously, money is what motivates these business, so lack of our money may motivate them in a more positive way. A way that will put more money in their pockets and a little bit of "neighborliness" back in ND.
We have nothing against NR freelance hunters, our feud is with G/O's and shooters. If regulating zones and opening weekend access helps battle the big money, then that is what we must do. For cripes sake, why isn't MN *****ing about only 5,000 NR waterfowl license in SD????? Because no tresspassing laws have all but elimintated land access for waterfowl hunting in SD. There is bearly enough for the residents to hunt. The same in happening in ND, with leasing running rampant, so we try and set some standards to delay the destruction of our hunting heritage. SORRY, but we are not the bad guys and it is time to quit handling the minority with kid gloves. If these few business' have no apathy for our plight, then can we be expected to show concern for their delima? Will I support someone who wants their piece of the pie, as well as my piece, hell no.

And finally, the reason some of these towns are seeing slower times in hunter turn out is simple. The waterfowl have no need to come to ND until the weather dictates. They can sit in Canada and eat all day. The local water has dried up, no the ducks are sitting on bigger lakes and sloughs. The geese have grown wiser and are less likely to decoy. And finally, there are more and more orange and yellow signs every year, limiting access to everyone, not just residents. The guy who used to come hunting from out of state expected a unique experience, but the last few yrs have been anything but unique. As it becomes more and more like the rest of the pay to hunt states, these small town business' will be the ones to suffer, as us resident hunters/fisherman will not be bringing our money to town either, because the oppurtunities are not there anymore. So, as we start to swing back, don't get mad at us, we didn't start the fire.


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

These are businesses that spoke out against restrictions on NRs by testifying against SB 2048, or by sending letters to the Governor to not restrict by caps or zones, or news paper articles. Before your next trip fishing or hunting you should know who did not support resident or freelance hunters. It is up to you if you want to avoid them or not. Buy the way residents spent 402.7 (86%) million dollars in ND hunting and fishing, and 213 million dollars (82%) in rural areas. The Avg. resident spends 19 days hunting.

Devils Lake Area: 
Woodland Resort, Great American Inn,Liquar Locker,Spririt Water Inn, and West Bay Resort. 
Michigan: 
Michigan Amoco, Johnson Store, and Legion Bar. 
Lakota:Russo's Cafe 
Steele: Lone Steer 
Lamoure:Omega Motel,Lamoure Supper Club,and Good Oil Co. 
Streeter: Streeter Coop,DJ"s Bar,and Streeter Grocery. 
Ashley: Dakota Family restaurant 
Ellendale:BNC Bank 
Lidgerwood:The Hotel 
Oaks:E+I Motel 
Fessenden:AJ's Motel 
Wishekraire Winds Restaurant 
Carrington: Cheifton Motel and Bar 
Fargo: SCHEELS ALL SPORTS, Dave and Dan Currier owners Dakota Fence


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Posted: 10 Feb 2003 05:29 Post subject: Letter to ND legislators - Scheels All Sports

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is a letter written by Steve Scheel of Scheels All Sports to North Dakota legislators. (This letter does NOT reflect my personal views-H2OfowlND- in anyway. I am just passing on information that should be known)

December 2002 
RE: Non-Resident Hunter Issue

I have been working with the managers of our 6 North Dakota stores, trying to get numbers that are close, and today we are confident that our Scheels stores in Bismarck, Minot, Grand Forks and Fargo do in excess of $2,500,000, annually with non-resident hunters and the guide and outfitters that supply them. As you can see, it is a huge amount this number grows each year. We feel the non-resident is 10-15% of our business in Minot, 15-20% of our business in Grand Forks and Fargo, and 30-40% of our hunting and related business in Bismarck. It is not unusual for a group of 4 non-residents to spend $2500 before the hunt, and $500 after the hunt on their way home.

Scheels employs over 700 people in North Dakota and we rely on this non-resident hunter for a significant portion of our business in the fall. I would urge you to support no further restrictions on the non-resident hunters. While we would like unlimited licenses, we can live with the limit of 30,000 on waterfowl and we can understand the early season for residents only, but would urge no further restrictions on the number of hunters or the periods when they are allowed to hunt. Nationally, there are fewer and fewer hunters and the demographics in North Dakota mean less resident hunters every year. We need the revenue from the non-residents just to hold us even.

There are a couple of other points on this issue: 
1. The license fees could be more expensive by at least $50 a license. 50,000 @ $50 = $2,500,000 and this could be used for more habitat. It is a standing joke for many that the license costs less than the booze! These people fly in or drive in, in a $35,000 SUV and $5000 worth of gear. 98% would pay $50 more without blinking. The typical elk hunter pays $650 in Montana and these bird hunters like to hunt birds as much as the elk hunter likes to hunt elk. Raise the fee and plant more habitat.

2. It would sure help if they had to buy their licenses at a North Dakota retailer. More and more hunters buy their licenses online and this keeps them out of the store in some cases. They spend huge amounts when they get in our stores and they see all we have to offer. This would be a huge boost to retail business throughout the state. Computers would easily allow us to cut license sales off at a pre-determined limit.

Thanks for your time! The 700 North Dakota Scheels associates certainly hope there are no further restrictions on non-resident hunters who help pay their salaries. $2.5 million pays a whole lot of paychecks.

Most Sincerely, 
Steve Scheel


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## Bucky (Oct 8, 2003)

What did Scheels do 5 or 10 years ago when there wasn't this big influx of non resident hunters? How in the world did they survive? All I can say is WOW! What will they do in 5 or 10 years when all the birds are gone, go bankrupt?


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## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

You go Fireball - You get low on Fuel just let us know :lol: :beer:

Hey tsodak - saw more good stuff (plots) today in Nelson county :beer:

you keep this up & I may have to get back into deer hunting :roll:


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## tsodak (Sep 7, 2002)

'preciate that man.... had some real good times up there around deer season last fall. Lots more business can be done there, although there is some debate on if that is a place we should concentrate. tom


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I still haven't made any purchases from scheels since that letter. The letter really wasn't what set me off though.

The treatment of one of the salesmen in the hunting department was. Luckily this guy doesn't work there anymore.

Incident #1
I was looking at a used Sp-10 for one of my friends and trying to deal on it. I asked the salesmen if he would go down in price. He said I would not find a used one cheaper than that. I told him I had bought one for about 200 less in better condition a while back. Which I had, I wasn't trying to bull**** him. He looked at me and told me that I must have bought a piece of crap. I looked at him smiled and said it kills birds every time out.
He proceeded to belittle my gun and me and told me no one would sell a gun cheaper than Scheels.

Incident #2
I went in to buy some primers to try out a new load in steel. Same guy happens to be working so I ask him if he would open the case so I could get a 100 primers. He asked me what I was loading I told him some steel loads. He looked at me and said "you must not shoot much waterfowl". 
Again I just smiled and went about my business.

Incident #3
I went in to buy a vexilar for my dad. Just my luck I get this same bozo again trying to sell me stuff. Turns out they don't have a vexilar in stock. I told him I'll come back later and purchase one and ask how long before they are in. He says he doesn't know but they have a clearwater flasher. I said I've already checked them all out and I have decided on the vexilar. But he won't give up. So the light bulb goes off in my head. I've got nothing to do for awhile. But I thought I'd tell him one more time that I want a vexilar to see if he understood.

His light bulb didn't go off obviously because for the next hour he told me how much better the clearwater was and how the reports say the vexilars are no good. At the end of the whole conversation he says "So do you want to take the clearwater home today or do you want to put some down and put it on lay away" I looked at him smiled and said, "No. I told you I wanted a vexilar twice and I would come back and get one but you didn't seem to understand. You just blew a half an hour you could have spent on some other customers making money but instead you didn't listen to what I said. Now I've decided that I don't want to buy the vexilar from Scheels either because I always have to deal with you on things."

He didn't smile very much then.

I know that this wasn't really part of the boycott the business deal but I had to vent a little because I get so ****** dealing with people in scheels some times and I have no other local places to buy anything. There are some good guys that work at scheels but they are not usually the ones I get to deal with.


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Do not wait to long to do your mail order Christmas shopping. Also, Nelson County commissioners do not think that state laws should apply to them. Why should the G&F invest money in plots in Nelson County when they are so anti G&F and freelance hunter? There are better places to spend or plots money, looks like they have more than their share of plots already. While I am on a roll, how about an article dealing with lost moneys in small towns because of law changes.Tuttle business owner complaining. If I remember correctly a picture of a farmer from Tuttle smiling by his sign that read NRs welcome residents don't ask. Maybe not all resident hunters forget things like that, I don't.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

If you do go to Scheel's again, go to the Moorhead one. Most of the guys there are from the original Northside scheel's and are WAY more friendlier. They seem to have more knowledge about their products.
As for the Fargo store....they can eat a big bag of sh*t.

Mav....


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## T Shot (Oct 4, 2002)

Ouch Mav... That one kinda hurt.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

If you want to boycott someplace, boycott Custom Gunworks. It is the gunsmith across from the northside Taco Shop next to Chub's. I drove by the other day and saw a very disturbing sign. It read,"ANTI ND HUNTER". What the hell is that supposed to mean?? If I interpreted correctly, I believe he is trying to say he doesn't like ND hunters. Hummmmm.... I have never been there once, and don't plan on going ever. At this point I says to myself,"self, if he is trying to attract business, I think he is going about it the wrong way".


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

Brad, I think you may want to check that out a little more in depth. Actually a lot more in depth. You'll have a good day.


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## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

Brad
The sign at Custom Gun Works is in regard the Farm Bureau law suit against the ND Game & Fish dept. about the trespass law. Brad I hope you wear your glasses when you are hunting. The North side of that sign reads "Farm Bureau-Nodak Mutual anti res hunter cancel your insurance." The South side of that sign reads "Farm Bureau anti ND hunter." Brad maybe you should go to Custom Gun Works and introduce yourself. By the way Farm B. office is a block away.


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

Ah the beauty of the internet, instant clarification. I was wondering why the sign seemed odd. Yeah the half I saw read "ANTI ND HUNTER". I did not look at the other side, my bad. I apoligize. Thanks for the correction.


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