# SD Spring Snows outfitters



## Midwestduckhunter

Flatland Flyways. Anyone have any suggestions besides Northern Skies Outfitters for SD spring Snows? We had a terrible experience with these guys and would tell anyone to stay away from them at least in SD.......... So we are looking for someone else. I have only heard terrible things about Flatland Flyways also

Thanks


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## cajunsnowchaser

Hello im thinking of going up that way this up coming spring to hunt and was looking at them myself would you mind letting me know what happened on your hunt with them. I dont want to spend money and they turn out to be some half hitch run guide service like most of the guys down here where I live and hunt. any info would be nice.


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## duckslayer18

Flatland flyways. Hands down the best snow goose guide service in South Dakota. Nobody will work harder to put you and keep you on the birds. Check em out!

http://www.flatlandflyways.com


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## themaskedmallard

duckslayer18 said:


> Flatland flyways. Hands down the best snow goose guide service in South Dakota. Nobody will work harder to put you and keep you on the birds. Check em out!
> 
> http://www.flatlandflyways.com


Have heard PLENTY of negative things about FLF.Habitat Flats wanna be's, apparently you can go and hunt with the boys down in Missouri and then start your own guide service based off what you learned the 3 or 4 days you hunted with them.


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## duckslayer18

Well I haven't heard any negative comments about them and our hunt with them this year was fantastic. They worked their tails off to make sure we were on birds. So that's all you can ask for. It's just my opinion tho.


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## jpallen14

Pretty much all spring snow guide services are the same, looking for easy money with least amount of effort, plain and simple. If your planning on hunting with Flatland this fall or spring PM me I'll let you come with our group of guys for free in NE SD or NC SD.

Not sure why everyone always wants to do their spring snows guided hunts in SD. Almost every year outfitters have their best daily averages in AR and MO and worst averages in SD.


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## Midwestduckhunter

cajunsnowchaser said:


> Hello im thinking of going up that way this up coming spring to hunt and was looking at them myself would you mind letting me know what happened on your hunt with them. I dont want to spend money and they turn out to be some half hitch run guide service like most of the guys down here where I live and hunt. any info would be nice.


Read about them on the migration report thread starting on page 11. You would not believe the PMs I get from others with same experience we had.


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## Midwestduckhunter

themaskedmallard said:


> Have heard PLENTY of negative things about FLF.Habitat Flats wanna be's, apparently you can go and hunt with the boys down in Missouri and then start your own guide service based off what you learned the 3 or 4 days you hunted with them.


The website says guiding since 2013. They look like a bunch of high school/college kids with expensive equipment. Unless they won the lottery they must have parents with open checkbooks. No thanks


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## themaskedmallard

Midwestduckhunter said:


> themaskedmallard said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have heard PLENTY of negative things about FLF.Habitat Flats wanna be's, apparently you can go and hunt with the boys down in Missouri and then start your own guide service based off what you learned the 3 or 4 days you hunted with them.
> 
> 
> 
> The website says guiding since 2013. They look like a bunch of high school/college kids with expensive equipment. Unless they won the lottery *they must have parents with open checkbooks. No thanks*
Click to expand...

Your onto something there....


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## snowgoosekilla1

Save the money buy your own spread, then don't worry about guides.


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## SDMAN

snowgoosekilla1 said:


> Save the money buy your own spread, then don't worry about guides.


X2! :thumb: Yep  :sniper: :sniper:


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## Uncle Fuzzy

cajunsnowchaser. If you are interested in a Spring hunt in South Dakota you should try traiding for a Louisiana Duck in December or January when the far North is frozen.


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## Murmer

I personally try so hard to enjoy sharing the same area as the flatland guys, but I am at my wits end with these kids, I don't know where the money comes from but evidently leasing up private ground in the area is cheap, if a bunch of 18-20 yr old kids can. I have yet to hear anything good from anyone in the area about these guys. Until they come introduce themselves seeing it's less than 3 miles away from me I am agreeing with previous posts. I spoke with an Alex guy who said he was the owner and if he treats clients the way he treats a local hunter/landowner they will have a really nice hunting lodge to themselves for years to come because word spreads fast in remote areas.


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## dog walker

Me and a group of friends made several trips with Up North outdoors but we hunted Missouri and Arkansas. They were upfront and honest, the days that were the least productive were the ones that the weather was at its worst.

I think the problem is most folks go expecting to hunt the "X" only to find they're hunting permanent spreads. The owner told me the average was 25 birds per field a day. Now that's an average of all their fields combined for that day. I've been in the high 90's with them and single digits. Yet when I averaged out all our days I came out with an average closer to 40 birds a day for our group.

Now I'm not saying they're the best I'm just saying we've had good luck and were treated very well. I knew of 2 other groups that hunted with them before we used them and both groups had damn good hunts. Yet our first trip was not nearly as good as theirs but we gave them another shot and we had an outstanding 4 days in a row. The point I'm trying to make here is it's hunting and some days you wear them out and some days you just get worn out. When you pay for a hunt a bad hunt hurts far worse than a bad hunt you make on your own.

We enjoyed it so much and were going for more days and then multiple trips that we decided to put our own spread together and freelance. We're doing just fine on our own.


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## Hammerdown22

You know another thing you can do is just ask someone on here that hunts by themselves, by that I mean no guides no bull poopy...most guys usually always have room for another gun...and I guarantee you most of us shoot just as many birds as those guys guiding do and are more than happy to have another person along to shoot the sh*t with...o and the best thing about that, im sure your fee will be a wopping $0. :beer:


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## razorrt5

Everyone wants to hunt the central flyway, if your looking to travel and going to spend the money to get a guide try Eastern Shore of Maryland in March. know a guide out there they are good guys and do good working getting on the X, and the bird are wintering in the area so no one is hunting permanent spreads, they go to the birds. I think it was last year they had a 219 bird morning just saying ... only do 1/2 day hunts your walking away with 50-100 birds a day by 11am and would still have time to do some site seeing in DC or Annapolis. just thought I would suggest something different. they also do sea duck hunts but never done that, its on my to do list :sniper:


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## themaskedmallard

Murmer said:


> I personally try so hard to enjoy sharing the same area as the flatland guys, but I am at my wits end with these kids, I don't know where the money comes from but evidently leasing up private ground in the area is cheap, if a bunch of 18-20 yr old kids can. I have yet to hear anything good from anyone in the area about these guys. Until they come introduce themselves seeing it's less than 3 miles away from me I am agreeing with previous posts. I spoke with an Alex guy who said he was the owner and if he treats clients the way he treats a local hunter/landowner they will have a really nice hunting lodge to themselves for years to come because word spreads fast in remote areas.


Agree with you the list of people who feel the same as you about them grows stronger by the day. By far one of the most unprofessional guides I've ever had the unpleasure of dealing with. I'm sure his crew is all smiles and rainbows if your paying their ridiculous prices to hunt, but when it comes to the locals he's burning a lot of bridges.


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## duckslayer18

themaskedmallard said:


> Murmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally try so hard to enjoy sharing the same area as the flatland guys, but I am at my wits end with these kids, I don't know where the money comes from but evidently leasing up private ground in the area is cheap, if a bunch of 18-20 yr old kids can. I have yet to hear anything good from anyone in the area about these guys. Until they come introduce themselves seeing it's less than 3 miles away from me I am agreeing with previous posts. I spoke with an Alex guy who said he was the owner and if he treats clients the way he treats a local hunter/landowner they will have a really nice hunting lodge to themselves for years to come because word spreads fast in remote areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree with you the list of people who feel the same as you about them grows stronger by the day. By far one of the most unprofessional guides I've ever had the unpleasure of dealing with. I'm sure his crew is all smiles and rainbows if your paying their ridiculous prices to hunt, but when it comes to the locals he's burning a lot of bridges.
Click to expand...

If anyone would like to pm me with some first hand examples, that would be great. If we get selected for a sodak license, we were thinking about going back with them for a fall snows hunt.

Thanks


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## the professor

duckslayer18 said:


> If anyone would like to pm me with some first hand examples, that would be great. If we get selected for a sodak license, we were thinking about going back with them for a fall snows hunt.
> 
> Thanks


I can understand the use of a guide for snow goose hunting for the guy who doesn't want to invest in a spread, but please don't hire guides for fall hunting. Commercialization of fall waterfowl seasons in SD is gaining momentum, and us as residents have to deal with the consequences later come the legislative session when these commercial interests get together with tourism groups and try to ram bad legislation through without regard for the resource.

If you want somebody to put you on birds, get in touch with these guys. I guarantee you will enjoy your hunt, and you will shoot birds, and you will do us all a favor and not promote pay-to-play.

https://www.facebook.com/southdakotafre ... ?ref=br_tf


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## Midwestduckhunter

the professor said:


> duckslayer18 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If anyone would like to pm me with some first hand examples, that would be great. If we get selected for a sodak license, we were thinking about going back with them for a fall snows hunt.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> I can understand the use of a guide for snow goose hunting for the guy who doesn't want to invest in a spread, but please don't hire guides for fall hunting. Commercialization of fall waterfowl seasons in SD is gaining momentum, and us as residents have to deal with the consequences later come the legislative session when these commercial interests get together with tourism groups and try to ram bad legislation through without regard for the resource.
> 
> If you want somebody to put you on birds, get in touch with these guys. I guarantee you will enjoy your hunt, and you will shoot birds, and you will do us all a favor and not promote pay-to-play.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/southdakotafre ... ?ref=br_tf
Click to expand...

I'll have to look into these guys. Pretty awesome that they are doing this.


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## SDMAN

Check out Migration X outfitters their good :thumb:


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## fieldgeneral

SDMAN said:


> Check out Migration X outfitters their good :thumb:


Biggest group of yo yo's out there&#8230; These guys have no consideration for anyone else. By all means there getting into the field they want the next day, no matter what.. Major clowns out of that outfitter. I know all sorts of farmers that if they only knew how that guy runs and the money he charges, there is no way they would let him hunt fields. He has college kids run around and get the permission and then he slides into the field the next day with 9 guys and makes all the money of the field giving none of it to the farmer.. If he only knew it is a matter of time before him and some of his traditional hunting spots are gonna change. The word is spreading about him and it won't be long before local farmers are on to him. I am seeing to it first hand. :thumb:


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## snowgoosekilla2

fieldgeneral said:


> SDMAN said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check out Migration X outfitters their good :thumb:
> 
> 
> 
> Biggest group of yo yo's out there&#8230; These guys have no consideration for anyone else. By all means there getting into the field they want the next day, no matter what.. Major clowns out of that outfitter. I know all sorts of farmers that if they only knew how that guy runs and the money he charges, there is no way they would let him hunt fields. He has college kids run around and get the permission and then he slides into the field the next day with 9 guys and makes all the money of the field giving none of it to the farmer.. If he only knew it is a matter of time before him and some of his traditional hunting spots are gonna change. The word is spreading about him and it won't be long before local farmers are on to him. I am seeing to it first hand. :thumb:
Click to expand...

Highschool kids, not college! I know all about his operation and it is terrible! I agree 100% with field general!


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## snow

After reading through this thread I find it odd that some have had a bad experience with Northern Skies? Booking a hunt months in advance is a dice roll for everyone looking for the best hunt of their life,you'll have good days and bad days no matter who the outfitter is come march and april,weather and the snowline varies,every year uis different,infact Matt Shauer owner of Northern Skies will tell you up front that booking a hunt for @ least 3days will better your odds of a successful hunt with alot of shooting than just a one day hunt,this goes for other outfitters as well,not sure if the other outfitters put the miles on scouting as Northern Skies but these guyz work hard finding birds,Matt has a huge networking base around the state of SD to keep tabs on the migration as it unfolds,his clients might need to travel 30,40 or more miles to get on birds each day...even then as the sunrises who knows where the snow geese will drop in to feed or just pull up and head north with a good tail wind.

Just a few thoughts as I have hunted with northern skies and a couple other not so good outfitters over the years that burn the one or two fields out they have locked up close to their home base for the spring hunt.

Also,the big plus with Northern Skies is they don't load the field with hunters,Matt also has one hellofa ecaller system called the "squack box"


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## jpallen14

I'm sure any guide service out there is going to have people that are unhappy with their experience. The bigger the outfitter the more people they guide the more unhappy people they might have. It is the beast of the game. Snow goose hunting is a tough as it gets and most people expect way to much out of a hunt. If you have a bad hunt move on to the next outfitter. There is literally dozens of guys providing payed hunts in South Dakota during the spring.


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## themaskedmallard

snow said:


> After reading through this thread I find it odd that some have had a bad experience with Northern Skies? Booking a hunt months in advance is a dice roll for everyone looking for the best hunt of their life,you'll have good days and bad days no matter who the outfitter is come march and april,weather and the snowline varies,every year uis different,infact Matt Shauer owner of Northern Skies will tell you up front that booking a hunt for @ least 3days will better your odds of a successful hunt with alot of shooting than just a one day hunt,this goes for other outfitters as well,not sure if the other outfitters put the miles on scouting as Northern Skies but these guyz work hard finding birds,Matt has a huge networking base around the state of SD to keep tabs on the migration as it unfolds,his clients might need to travel 30,40 or more miles to get on birds each day...even then as the sunrises who knows where the snow geese will drop in to feed or just pull up and head north with a good tail wind.
> 
> Just a few thoughts as I have hunted with northern skies and a couple other not so good outfitters over the years that burn the one or two fields out they have locked up close to their home base for the spring hunt.
> 
> Also,the big plus with Northern Skies is they don't load the field with hunters,Matt also has one hellofa ecaller system called the "squack box"


Great plug.

Those ecallers really aren't that special.


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## snow

Oh "okay"


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## jpallen14

duckslayer18 said:


> themaskedmallard said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Murmer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally try so hard to enjoy sharing the same area as the flatland guys, but I am at my wits end with these kids, I don't know where the money comes from but evidently leasing up private ground in the area is cheap, if a bunch of 18-20 yr old kids can. I have yet to hear anything good from anyone in the area about these guys. Until they come introduce themselves seeing it's less than 3 miles away from me I am agreeing with previous posts. I spoke with an Alex guy who said he was the owner and if he treats clients the way he treats a local hunter/landowner they will have a really nice hunting lodge to themselves for years to come because word spreads fast in remote areas.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree with you the list of people who feel the same as you about them grows stronger by the day. By far one of the most unprofessional guides I've ever had the unpleasure of dealing with. I'm sure his crew is all smiles and rainbows if your paying their ridiculous prices to hunt, but when it comes to the locals he's burning a lot of bridges.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If anyone would like to pm me with some first hand examples, that would be great. If we get selected for a sodak license, we were thinking about going back with them for a fall snows hunt.
> 
> Thanks
Click to expand...

Please don't get an outfitter in SD in the fall. Your only chipping away at the block at ruining SD waterfowl hunting for 95% of the others. My buddies and I will be more than happy to bring you and your buddies out in November if it keep you guys from paying an outfitter. I can almost promise great hunts whether for snow or mallards. PM if your interested


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## NC Ducker

Please don't get an outfitter in SD in the fall. Your only chipping away at the block at ruining SD waterfowl hunting for 95% of the others. My buddies and I will be more than happy to bring you and your buddies out in November if it keep you guys from paying an outfitter. I can almost promise great hunts whether for snow or mallards. PM if your interested[/quote]

I'm just curious as to what you are trying to accomplish with this??? 
You don't want outfitters to be in your area so your gonna show a bunch of different guys how easy it is to freelance???
Next year they will show up with there buddies, pool there money, buy the gear, and piss you off???
On top of that you'll be bringing in guys that wouldn't have even came because of lack of funds, but since you were nice enough to supply the spot, gear knowledge, etc.., why not give it a try???
Seems to me, you would be better off to have just left it alone.
Hope it works out for ya.
Where is the smilie shooting himself in the foot!!!


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## duckslayer18

^straight IDIOT! Go back to your moms basement, world of Warcraft, Cheetos and juice box, and let us grown men have a conversation! Thanks bud!


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## NC Ducker

duckslayer18 said:


> ^straight IDIOT! Go back to your moms basement, world of Warcraft, Cheetos and juice box, and let us grown men have a conversation! Thanks bud!


This coming from the guy looking for a guide earlier, now prolly going on a free guided hunt, go figure.


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## jpallen14

NC Ducker said:


> Please don't get an outfitter in SD in the fall. Your only chipping away at the block at ruining SD waterfowl hunting for 95% of the others. My buddies and I will be more than happy to bring you and your buddies out in November if it keep you guys from paying an outfitter. I can almost promise great hunts whether for snow or mallards. PM if your interested


_I'm just curious as to what you are trying to accomplish with this??? 
You don't want outfitters to be in your area so your gonna show a bunch of different guys how easy it is to freelance???
Next year they will show up with there buddies, pool there money, buy the gear, and piss you off???
On top of that you'll be bringing in guys that wouldn't have even came because of lack of funds, but since you were nice enough to supply the spot, gear knowledge, etc.., why not give it a try???
Seems to me, you would be better off to have just left it alone.
Hope it works out for ya.
Where is the smilie shooting himself in the foot!!![/_quote]

Freelancers don't piss me off, nor do NR waterfowl hunters


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## bwfsh

There are currently opportunities in the Midwest for freelancers. Outfitters are destroying that at a scary rate. We are asked to pay for a spot to hunt more often each year. I'm guessing that is what jp is referring to.


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## Midwestduckhunter

Just saw this on another site. Flatland making a bad name of themselves again. wow

_Someone with Flatland, I'm not going to name them, got busted hunting without a license last spring and lost their license for a year. Flatland also was ticketed for illegally parking vehicles on a public hunting area in SD last spring. . 
_


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## mudhunter

Agree 100% with all of you. Thats why we spend weeks spicing up our spread, and put em out in Nebraska. Not as many birds over us, but when we crawl in our spread where we are, we don't have the X hunters 100 yds from us. My last experience with these boys, I told the high school kid his group were not hunters. Think our 1000 + fulls will do the trick. And as i say, no outfitters. Am sure there are some out there that aren't jerks.


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## the professor

the professor said:


> I can understand the use of a guide for snow goose hunting for the guy who doesn't want to invest in a spread, but please don't hire guides for fall hunting. Commercialization of fall waterfowl seasons in SD is gaining momentum, and us as residents have to deal with the consequences later come the legislative session when these commercial interests get together with tourism groups and try to ram bad legislation through without regard for the resource.


Well, I called that one...

http://gfp.sd.gov/hunting/waterfowl/non ... group.aspx

Two of the members on this "workgroup" are vested in commercially exploiting waterfowlers. They want nothing more than to get more non resident licenses to promote pay-to-play.


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## Midwestduckhunter

Midwestduckhunter said:


> Just saw this on another site. Flatland making a bad name of themselves again. wow
> 
> _Someone with Flatland, I'm not going to name them, got busted hunting without a license last spring and lost their license for a year. Flatland also was ticketed for illegally parking vehicles on a public hunting area in SD last spring. .
> _


Anyone in SD know anything about this?


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## Kelly Hannan

Goose Grinders, Premier Flight Guide Service. Ask for Dwayne, tell him Kelly sent ya. He will work his but off to put you on birds. Doesn't always happen, but he tries. The owners name is Dean. 507-261-2072.


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## WingedShooter7

Midwestduckhunter said:


> Midwestduckhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just saw this on another site. Flatland making a bad name of themselves again. wow
> 
> _Someone with Flatland, I'm not going to name them, got busted hunting without a license last spring and lost their license for a year. Flatland also was ticketed for illegally parking vehicles on a public hunting area in SD last spring. .
> _
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone in SD know anything about this?
Click to expand...

Its true, not sure how to look it up though.


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## the professor

WingedShooter7 said:


> Midwestduckhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwestduckhunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just saw this on another site. Flatland making a bad name of themselves again. wow
> 
> _Someone with Flatland, I'm not going to name them, got busted hunting without a license last spring and lost their license for a year. Flatland also was ticketed for illegally parking vehicles on a public hunting area in SD last spring. .
> _
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone in SD know anything about this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Its true, not sure how to look it up though.
Click to expand...

Too bad you can still guide waterfowl in the state of SD without a hunting license. 
Client "why don't you have a gun in the blind."
Guide "I want the clients to have the best experience possible. I only (film) (photograph) (punch the clown)"

A handfull of SD residents already are experienced at guiding or filming even with revoked hunting privileges.


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## mcqude

That's an awesome program. Free guiding service .its about time someone's doing something about these lame guide services aka rip offs. False advertising,false bird averages, People just bounce from one poor guide service to another hoping for a better outcome then the last,,if you were lucky enough to get a good hunt with these rip offs they make sure your on a super dead field the next. We found birds real early in the season and got. Permission to hunt for the day,then a junkie guide service found them and asked permission from all the farms around to lock up the entire area and not hunt but one field for 2 weeks straight.i talked to the farmer last year and said the guide ran people through there nonstop and offered nothing but some griping that he chopped his corn too high and it wrecked a bunch of his decoys. He won't be hunting there ever again...had a guide block the section road with 2 trucks in the dark. We had been hunting there the previous 2 days,We walked around them and got all the shooting that morning...I'm a non res.and if they cause me this much grief I can only imagine how mad I would be if I lived there in so. Dak..maybe some anti guide service signs the likes of wall drug would work? Pitty the fools who hire these lamos they know not what they do.


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## Midwestduckhunter

Just an update on Northern Skies. Talked to two groups that had the nightmare of hunting with these clowns last spring. Both groups killed less than 20 birds in 3 days of hunting. Said one of the worst waterfowl experiences they have ever had.


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## jpallen14

Midwestduckhunter said:


> Just an update on Northern Skies. Talked to two groups that had the nightmare of hunting with these clowns last spring. Both groups killed less than 20 birds in 3 days of hunting. Said one of the worst waterfowl experiences they have ever had.


Sounds like a common occurrence with Northern Skies Outfitters. Good thing there is bunch better out there


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## J.D.

Midwestduckhunter said:


> Just an update on Northern Skies. Talked to two groups that had the nightmare of hunting with these clowns last spring. Both groups killed less than 20 birds in 3 days of hunting. Said one of the worst waterfowl experiences they have ever had.


They hunted Nebraska last spring and I heard nothing but bad things....


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## PJ

All guides suck. :down:


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## snow

JD,Here say doesn't account for much other than idle conversation or someone blowin their own horn.Spring hunts are never easy and there is NO guarentees of a good shoot,its hunting,spring or fall its a crap shoot,with that said I have hunted with northern skies a few times,some days were really good,others...so-so,no regrets.

I will say these guyz bust *** getting on birds,they have a huge network of farms and folks in the field they feed off of,one of the best outfits I've hunted with in my 40+ years of waterfowing.

My .02.


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## juviesoup

snow said:


> JD,Here say doesn't account for much other than idle conversation or someone blowin their own horn.Spring hunts are never easy and there is NO guarentees of a good shoot,its hunting,spring or fall its a crap shoot,with that said I have hunted with northern skies a few times,some days were really good,others...so-so,no regrets.
> 
> I will say these guyz bust a$$ getting on birds,they have a huge network of farms and folks in the field they feed off of,one of the best outfits I've hunted with in my 40+ years of waterfowing.
> 
> My .02.


If you are just a client, how do you know how hard they work to get on birds? You hunt, go back to your motel, repeat. If setting up a few spreads in an area and running clients through them day after day is working hard, then every snow goose hunter in the country is the hardest hunter on the planet. That last comment..... apparently you haven't hunted with other guides. Or another guide for that matter as 98% of the remaining guides are better at killing birds than NSKO.


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## BROWNDOG

PJ said:


> All guides suck. :down:


The guys that use them SUCK more


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## snow

juvi,been around the block the few times myself solo,I've been on hand when the guyz scouting come back with info for the following day,Matt has guyz running in different directions while his other guyz are in the field,also his contacts will call with info,sometimes we'll run 50 to 100 miles from the last stand to get on birds,they do a great job in my opinion,and yes I tried others in Missouri and Nebraska,okay shoots in loaded fields with 10 or more shooters,not my deal,northen skies has it goin on,either private groups or small groups of guyz,he doesn't load the field with shooters.

Like I said,if you haven't hunted with them, its just conversation and doesn't account for much other than conversation.


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## the professor

snow said:


> northen skies has it goin on,either private groups or small groups of guyz,he doesn't load the field with shooters.


Social media posts from last spring from NS guides and clients would dispute that claim.


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## prairie hunter

Think about it ... you and your buddies are under or unemployed.

Buy trailer and decoys ... business expense
Fuel ... business expense
Meals and Lodging ... business expense

Internet Site or Craig's list posting ... cheap.

Average pulling say 6 guys @ $900 total per day for say 5 days per week for say 10 weeks ... $45K in revenue ... Cover AR, MO, NE, SD

ND requires guide certification so you stop at the SD border just in time for fishing to start up.


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## Midwestduckhunter

snow said:


> juvi,been around the block the few times myself solo,I've been on hand when the guyz scouting come back with info for the following day,Matt has guyz running in different directions while his other guyz are in the field,also his contacts will call with info,sometimes we'll run 50 to 100 miles from the last stand to get on birds,they do a great job in my opinion,and yes I tried others in Missouri and Nebraska,okay shoots in loaded fields with 10 or more shooters,not my deal,northen skies has it goin on,either private groups or small groups of guyz,he doesn't load the field with shooters.
> 
> Like I said,if you haven't hunted with them, its just conversation and doesn't account for much other than conversation.


Haha this is some funny stuff!! You know for a fact "snow" that everything you stated is complete BS. I have hunted with these guys for a few days a couple years back and it was a total joke. So I know first hand. Talked to countless others that had terrible experience with them also. They run clients thru the ringer, it is all about money in the pocket. Hunt stale birds in stale areas and are not willing to move to get onto birds. They put a blindfold on, pick a spot on a map, set 8 spreads and hunt the same spreads for the next 2 weeks while just rotating guys to new spreads each day. The guide we hunted with a couple years ago said they hadn't moved a spread in 5 days and had not killed more than 10 birds in any spread over that same 5 days. Guide was a nice guy but basically said the once the owner picks a spot they will not move for a couple weeks. This works if you are killing birds but these guys don't kill anything. Based from social media and guys I have talked to NSO has averaged less than 10 birds per day per spread in Missouri, Nebraska and South Dakota over the last 3 years


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## snow

I must say it sounds like your full of BS,I suspect your one of these wanna be guides that hunts your daddys farm trying to make a name for yourself or down wind a group hunting with a outfitter,that or just a punk spouting off.I have no reason to imbilish the time I have spent with this crew and stand by my statement whether you like it or not,I know better, been there done that and you don't speak truth.


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## J.D.

snow said:


> JD,Here say doesn't account for much other than idle conversation or someone blowin their own horn.Spring hunts are never easy and there is NO guarentees of a good shoot,its hunting,spring or fall its a crap shoot,with that said I have hunted with northern skies a few times,some days were really good,others...so-so,no regrets.
> 
> I will say these guyz bust a$$ getting on birds,they have a huge network of farms and folks in the field they feed off of,one of the best outfits I've hunted with in my 40+ years of waterfowing.
> 
> My .02.


It wasnt all second hand reports - I stayed at the same hotel as them and Matt's guides first hand told me how poor the hunting was. Two said they would never step foot in the state of Nebraska again it had been so bad all spring.....

I dont think it is a coincidence that clients up and down the flyway report the same thing:
- stale birds
- stale fields
- consistent single digit hunts

:beer:


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## KEN W

With the poor hatch this summer in the arctic.....There will be a whole lot of grumbling. The last few years have seen a lot of young. With good shoots.Not next year.


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## the professor

snow said:


> I must say it sounds like your full of BS,I suspect your one of these wanna be guides that hunts your daddys farm trying to make a name for yourself or down wind a group hunting with a outfitter,that or just a punk spouting off.I have no reason to imbilish the time I have spent with this crew and stand by my statement whether you like it or not,I know better, been there done that and you don't speak truth.


Where did you hunt with them last spring? How many times did you witness the guides pulling and relocating the spread? How many birds did you shoot on each hunt with them? 
NS has a couple of great guides, one in particular that goes above and beyond being a guide, sharing his knowledge and passion for waterfowl and wildlife, but that doesn't change the fact that they do the same things many other guide services do, set up in traffic areas and run guys through the spreads. 
There are plenty of reasons to do that of course, some good, some bad. lodging access, long term success years past, lease costs, guides burnt out, clients not wanting to move, birds staged in large numbers at latitudes south of the traffic fields... The gamble is shooting 5, 6, maybe 10 birds for 6-8 clients day after day, with the chance that maybe conditions are perfect and the birds do it right and they have a 40 or 50+ shoot if the birds work good.
Every client is quick to get all over the web when they just had a successful 50-60 bird shoot, and talk about how great their outfitter was. Most don't say much publicly when their trip was less than stellar, because "well that's snow goose hunting." Is it? Is setting up semi permanent spreads the answer as a guide? Could be, as long as clients are told from the get go and have realistic expectations. Is chasing the X the answer? not always, but those guides doing such convey a presence of "do what it takes to stay on birds" and appear to be earning their money rather than running guys through a stale field and taking the money.


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## juviesoup

snow said:


> juvi,been around the block the few times myself solo,I've been on hand when the guyz scouting come back with info for the following day,Matt has guyz running in different directions while his other guyz are in the field,also his contacts will call with info,sometimes we'll run 50 to 100 miles from the last stand to get on birds,they do a great job in my opinion,and yes I tried others in Missouri and Nebraska,okay shoots in loaded fields with 10 or more shooters,not my deal,northen skies has it goin on,either private groups or small groups of guyz,he doesn't load the field with shooters.
> 
> Like I said,if you haven't hunted with them, its just conversation and doesn't account for much other than conversation.


Apparently you've never hunted with Eagle Head Outdoors, Habitat Flats, Top Gun, Waterfowl Junkie, or Neu Outdoors to name 5 off the top of my head that have more success in one morning than Northern Skies has an entire season. Whether I have hunted with them or not is completely irrelevant. I have personally witnessed their spreads sitting in an area for 2 even 3 weeks at a time without moving, with clients in them almost every day. The owner doesn't step foot in a field all season, I have heard that from more people than I can count on two hands. They hunted Nebraska this year the same time we were down there and nothing but bad things were said about them from clients you ran into at gas stations or locals talking about them. Guess if you want to be a poster boy for someone you pay by all means go ahead, just find it hilarious you think they are even a mediocre guide. Thank god they stop guiding in South Dakota, don't need their cookie cutter spreads sitting out in 10 fields in every state we hunt the entire flyway.


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## snow

Really juvie?,funny as I was staying in a small town when topgun came rolling in,they chatted with us and I did hunt one time with topgun as John(GUIDE) is a friend of mine,top gun was on a 3 days run and gun spree w/o any shots fired when they came upon us WITH CLIENTS IN TOW as we dressedoutour 74snows unless unless something happened to Matt I can't believe he moved from sodak,I'll check into your claim

For what its worth,anyone interested in northen skies please visit they're website,I was with them when Migration Nation showed up for a hunt with Northern Skies great video,fordays,and I think the Fowl Life hunted with them as well after we left or so they said.

Its a crap shoot hunting snows as we all know,lots of guides out there,or doing it yourself in one or two days,take a few extra days hunt with whoever or on your own,the handful of guides I've hunted with over the years northen skies did me well than the others.


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## snow

juvi,

I talked with Matt today,he's still going strong and expanding his business,not sure where you get your info from but like a couiple other folks on this thread your info is incorrect,I suspect some of you naysayers here are confused with another outfitter for spring hunts called "northern flight" entirely different operation compared to northern skies.He did say some local sodak boyz are upset here on nodak outdoors because he leased up some of their hunting land,which I can understand,its happened to me a a free lance waterfowler.But spreading false rumors won't help ya any.He also said he built a lodge in Arkansas and opened a place north of quill lakes Sasak,so he must be doing something right.


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## snow

j


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## Midwestduckhunter

I'm 100% certain I'm taking about Northern Skies not Northern Flight. Can't testify to them leasing up ground in SD to hunt but would surprise me one bit that they be screwing over locals by leasing ground in NE SD. I think of them even less now. Lease land in NE SD to hunt ducks. Wow, truly the last place you need to lease land to kill ducks. The whole operation is a half as s deal, period. That is from my first hand experience


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## snow

As I suspected,disgruntle local sodak hunter,spreading here say ... :eyeroll:


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## juviesoup

snow said:


> Really juvie?,funny as I was staying in a small town when topgun came rolling in,they chatted with us and I did hunt one time with topgun as John(GUIDE) is a friend of mine,top gun was on a 3 days run and gun spree w/o any shots fired when they came upon us WITH CLIENTS IN TOW as we dressedoutour 74snows unless unless something happened to Matt I can't believe he moved from sodak,I'll check into your claim
> 
> For what its worth,anyone interested in northen skies please *visit they're website*,I was with them when Migration Nation showed up for a hunt with Northern Skies great video,fordays,and I think the Fowl Life hunted with them as well after we left or so they said.
> 
> Its a crap shoot hunting snows as we all know,lots of guides out there,or doing it yourself in one or two days,take a few extra days hunt with whoever or on your own,the handful of guides I've hunted with over the years northen skies did me well than the others.


Yeah so you can see big shoots that Mat or NSKO had nothing to do with, like that 400 shoot on there. Guy gets invited on a hunt through some people, has the best shoot of his life then proceeds to play it off as if his almighty god like guide service performed the amazing hunt. Class Act right there.



snow said:


> juvi,
> 
> I talked with Matt today,he's still going strong and expanding his business,not sure where you get your info from but like a couiple other folks on this thread your info is incorrect,I suspect some of you naysayers here are confused with another outfitter for spring hunts called "northern flight" entirely different operation compared to northern skies.He did say some local sodak boyz are upset here on nodak outdoors because he leased up some of their hunting land,which I can understand,its happened to me a a free lance waterfowler.But spreading false rumors won't help ya any.He also said he built a lodge in Arkansas and opened a place north of quill lakes Sasak,so he must be doing something right.


100% mean Northern Skies ran by Mat Schaur. I meant he doesn't continue into North Dakota and Canada in the Spring, not that he doesn't guide in South Dakota anymore in the Spring. Yep he is doing something right, ever heard of a sucker born every minute? The amount of guys that want to snow goose hunt nowadays it doesn't take much for him to suck in enough clients to fill the fields all spring.


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## snow

quote; Yeah so you can see big shoots that Mat or NSKO had nothing to do with, like that 400 shoot on there. Guy gets invited on a hunt through some people, has the best shoot of his life then proceeds to play it off as if his almighty god like guide service performed the amazing hunt. Class Act right there.

Hmmm,this must be Matts alter ego in the field with us then eh? Had a damn good shoot that day.


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## juviesoup

snow said:


> quote; Yeah so you can see big shoots that Mat or NSKO had nothing to do with, like that 400 shoot on there. Guy gets invited on a hunt through some people, has the best shoot of his life then proceeds to play it off as if his almighty god like guide service performed the amazing hunt. Class Act right there.
> 
> Hmmm,this must be Matts alter ego in the field with us then eh? Had a damn good shoot that day.


Considering I know an individual involved with that shoot, I can tell you that your trolling techniques are not working very well. For one, they had zero flyers out that day. For two, there wasn't any snow in the field. And for three, catching Mat out in the field during a spring hunt is one for the books. Better get that one framed up above your bed! :thumb:


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## snow

Yeah,whatever...your game is weak at best,all you have is here-say conversation AND NOT BEING THERE,just letting folks viewing this thread know your full of BS.

Oh look! another pic of that day,I see Matt and looks like snow on the ground as well...Also if you had your **** together regarding spring snows you would know by watching the birds whether flyers are working or not just like rotary flyers,if birds are flarin and guyz are well hid we take'em down,later on flyers may help,again you weren't on that hunt or any of the hunts with NKO,so keep chirpin,your digging a deep hole.


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## juviesoup

snow said:


> Yeah,whatever...your game is weak at best,all you have is here-say conversation AND NOT BEING THERE,just letting folks viewing this thread know your full of BS.
> 
> Oh look! another pic of that day,I see Matt and looks like snow on the ground as well...Also if you had your &$#* together regarding spring snows you would know by watching the birds whether flyers are working or not just like rotary flyers,if birds are flarin and guyz are well hid we take'em down,later on flyers may help,again you weren't on that hunt or any of the hunts with NKO,so keep chirpin,your digging a deep hole.


Just so we are on the same page we are still referring to the 400 (393) shoot, correct? If we are, you my friend are not only delusional but a comedian.

Feast your eyes upon this, viewtopic.php?f=6&t=97831#p754044

Since you've visted his website so many times you've obviously seen the video from that day. Again, no flyers and no snow anywhere in the entire state for that matter at that time.

once again no snow in the field, the people pictured in your photos are no where to be seen, and nearly everyone on the hunt commented on this thread of which no one is named TIM, which is your name. I may or may not have been on that hunt and may or may not have commented on there with a different username, you can speculate all you want about that. I'm not really sure what kind of relationship you have with Mat and NSKO but it must be more than just you being a client with them, or you are literally the best client ever. Hell, even Mat comments in that thread and doesn't say he guided it so Kudo's to him on that but still shady to use it as guiding propaganda and it doesn't change anything that has or will be said about them in the future.

In reference to the part about having my **** together hunting spring snows, its funny coming from someone who pays someone else to take them hunting and does all the work for them. If you are such a supreme snow goose killer why are you paying someone else to guide you? I, and the people I hunt with are well aware of how to snow goose hunt and when and when not to use those tools. You are right I have never hunted with Northern Skies on a guided hunt, or any hunt they were affiliated with, nor will I ever. However like I said above I may have been on this fun hunt in which Mat was invited, and if I was I can tell you I would never want to to spend another minute in the field with the guy after that hunt. That is if I was on the hunt. :wink:

Anyways, I didn't create this account to argue with some guy that has a hard on about his guide service he uses so this will be my last post about this.


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## fieldgeneral

Haven't been on here for sometime now but thought i'd chime in. I've known Mat for years now from the first time I called him out of the blue to get simple information on where the migration was at, to hunting with him after guiding seasons, to just simply seeing how thing are going. He has always taken the time to answer calls or call back quickly if I've missed him. I was just another hunter no different than anyone else, he still would call me and always spill the beans as to how things were going good or bad. He's a straight shooter, down to earth, good guy who is trying to run a business. I am a business owner as well so I can relate to him on that aspect. Your going to have your bumps and bruises along the way no matter what business venture your taking on. He does not deserve to to get raked thru the coals on some website on how he runs his business. He's out there doing all the same things other guide services do and weather you kill geese or not, they are trying there best. Anyone on here bad mouthing him, step in his shoes for a season, then step back and see what it takes to truly guide for snows. He has been at it longer than most, his knowledge of the flyway is pretty impressive and they know the ropes. I don't guide or use guides, but as a freelancer who goes up and down the flyway chasing them I have a lot of respect for Mat, have hunted with him and know first hand he is one hell of a good fella who is trying to make a buck like the rest of us out there so respect that. As to someone earlier saying how you don't see him in the field during the spring, thats the evolution of it all, as the business grows there are many things to be taken care of during the day so it is impossible for him to simply go out and hunt everyday. you people need to ease off this topic of outfitters, this is a pathetic thread that does no good at all.. I will stand in Mats corner all day long, hell of a good operation that is going to do there best to put people on birds. Your going to have your bad eggs always that aren't happy and these bafuins, ya just gotta sweep off the shoulders and live to hunt the next day. Keep at it Northern Skies, brush off the small percentage of negativity and put em down!! :bop: :bop:


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## Midwestduckhunter

He could be the worlds nicest guy but that doesn't put snow geese on the ground. Guys want results or at least see that the outfitter is trying his hardest to provide a quality hunt. The days I hunted with NSO I did not see one bit of either. Others that I have talked to have said the same. Talked to several different groups of guys from around here in MN that have hunted with them and will not go back again. I don't think any of them killed over 15 birds in a day of hunting as a group. I fully understand snow goose hunting is really tough but I was 100% disappointed in the complete lack of attempting to even kill birds with these guys. I'm sure they have some good hunts but they must be few and far between that is for sure


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## snow

quote"catching Mat out in the field during a spring hunt is one for the books. Better get that one framed up above your bed! :thumb:"

Not sure about the 400bird shoot,I wasn't there,just pointing out Matt gets in the field as well,unlike what you said.Pics prove we have birds down and more to prove we had plenty down on the days I hunted with them.Been doin this spring hunt since day one,our group started out as freelance hunters,two trailers,2k dekes etc,old age has taken a toll,like the conveience of having contacts in different states to join,my choice.Gettin out in the spring and having double digit days,every day would be magic let alone 3 digit days on a regular 3 day hunt whether with a guide or diy hunt,people will whine and pout when they don't connect,just the way it is.

Fieldgeneral~~ your spot on, they did a great job for us as well... :thumb:


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## themaskedmallard

This thread is great! :rollin:

Snow I hate to say it but you sure rebuttled quickly when Juvie owned you about the shoot that you made it seem like you were on. Say what you want but anyone reading your posts surely comprehended it the same way as I did and that was that you were on the 400 shoot or 390 or 393 or whatever in question.

Otherwise I think this thread is great. Its nice to see bad reviews about guide services. If someone is going to go pay their hard earned money and sees this thread they may question a few guide services mentioned here. Its nice to see both negative and a few positive reviews about the main guide on topic here. Be nice to be discussing more guides honestly. Let people read through this thing and make up their own minds.

:thumb:

I rarely get on this website anymore I had a coworker actually read this thread and mentioned it to me so I had to recheck it out. Snow on the first page I didn't see you responded to my "those ecallers aren't that special" comment. I say that because there not. You can make your own for 1/4 of the price that there being sold for.


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## the professor

How about this one...

"Dakota Hunting Lodge - Butte, ND

Postby grey duck » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:03 pm
So we set up yesterday morning with high expectations and 400 snow and dark deeks when a guide from above mentioned outfitter pulls up 150yds downwind of our spread and puts his three clients and a couple of dozen decoys out. He leaves the clients lying on the ground with burlap to cover themselves with and pulls off. Daylight comes and so do the snows who refuse to work us because of the party of three are sticking out only covered in burlap. Mean while a few ducks begin to work us only to be cut off by the spread placed downwind. After watching the Lodge's clients down some, one of the trio walks over with three mallard hens and says he is in need of assistance due to the fact they are over the limit of hens. Thinking to my self "the balls on this guy" I politely decline. The gentleman places the birds behind my blind and walks away. When the guide returned we returned the ducks to the party of hunters and picked up our stuff.

I thought I would inform everyone of the tactics used by this particular guide, and hope that he doesn't do this to anyone else.

Game and Fish was notified of the poaching violation."

http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/forum/vi ... 9&t=696457

Sounds like a top notch outfitter there...


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## Chuck Smith

> I don't think any of them killed over* 15 birds in a day of hunting as a group*. I fully understand snow goose hunting is really tough but I was 100% disappointed in the complete lack of attempting to even kill birds with these guys. I'm sure they have some good hunts but they must be few and far between that is for sure


What is in bold and underlined is the issue I think. Let me explain..

1. People have unreal expectations they think that if they hunt for 3-5 days they will have a 100 bird day. Well I hate to burst people bubble. Most guides if you ask them will tell you if you average 15-20 birds a day. That means you will have a hunt play out like this... day 1 - 5 birds... day 2- 25 birds... day 3 - 15 birds.... day 4 - 10 birds... etc. You get the point averaging 15 birds a day is pretty damn good. Now you might think shelling out $150 a day and only shooting 15 birds a day isn't worth it....well to me it isn't. Some will tell you that is the average and you have to factor in they have a 50+ days in there. :beer:

2. The guides sometimes don't tell the truth about averages. See above. They just talk about the 100's days.

3. The cost is crazy for these hunts.... $150 a day or what ever.... come on... WOW. That doesn't include lodging, meals, bird cleaning for most of them.

4. When people don't get "big numbers" they get all pissy and think that that guides or outfitters are not doing there job. Well sometimes birds blow through an area in a day, sometimes weather changes and birds stop migrating, etc. Expectations are not met and people ***** and moan.

I listed a few reasons why I am sure people get chapped about certain outfitters. But like I said I think people always think "big numbers" when in fact if you get 15-20 birds a day... That is on par for most of the people who hunt spring snows.

AGAIN.... 15-20 BIRDS A DAY IS ABOUT AVERAGE or ABOVE AVERAGE FOR PEOPLE HUNTING SPRING SNOWS..... :bop: :bop:


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## Midwestduckhunter

Snow,

What is your prediction on NSO average kill/per day/per spread in SD this spring? last year was about 7, I'm going 5 this year.


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## bluegoose18

I read this thread and all I have to say is who really gives a about him and his guide service and his 400 a day shoot. 
sounds to me as if this is a bashing a bunch of pre schoolers discussion next thing your going to say is I'm telling mommy that he don't like my friend


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## jpallen14

Man, Spring snows has become cut-throat. First they are talking about crappy guide services, then it moves to a he said she said


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