# opinion on proposed limits



## eyes to the skies (Mar 8, 2006)

this is a pretty big can of worms and dakota has raised some excellent questions in my mind. hopefully theres more guys out there that understand what dakota is trying to say. i do have to agree with dakota about the paper ducks. :withstupid:


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

Most of these guys can't comprehend the subject...and it appears as if there's a gag order on the guys that know for sure. :beer:


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

There's some "gagging" going on here - that's for sure. Let's see, I've been hunting ducks for 43 years now. That must make me more of an expert on population dynamics than those that work in the wildlife field. :eyeroll:

Oh yah...give me six ducks or I will quit hunting - NOT!


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## Dave Brandt (Jun 20, 2003)

Dakota,

Many who are in the know and browse this website have learned how true the following philosophical gem is and have better things to do with their time.

*"For those who understand, no explanation is necessary and for those who do not, none is possible."*


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

> "For those who understand, no explanation is necessary and for those who do not, none is possible."


With a philosophy like that...all is lost.

Is there not another biologist on this site capable of a debate. Anyone else that put those measly 4, 5 or 6 years in and then spent another 30 proving their their worth, or are all the wildlife bio majors nothing more than a bunch of puppys trying to manage the kennel!

Is their a senior on board anywhere here? ...or are all of you a bunch of ho-hum no nothings managing our waterfowl? Come-on...you wear that little ducky patch on your shirt sleeve...tell me, are my tax dollars being wasted? ...... Matt Perry would be ashamed no-one is willing to take this challenge.....come on, there is more than one philosophy pertaining to all I've said.....anyone out there doing their job?  anyone willing to post up any of the alternate theorys on hen mortality, reproduction or waterfowl ecology..................do they teach anything anymore in college other than how to say yes-sir to the boss???????

Can any biologist here tell me the difference between the addition and compensation theory related to harvest and population?

Maybe something simple...How about "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny"

or something related to non-toxic shot like aminolevulinic acid dehydratase?

Can any of the biologists on this site at least tell me if a birds feathers are of ecto, meso or endodermal origin?...or whether their red blood cells have a nucleous?

Certainly you can answer these questions without getting in trouble.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Dakota,
Answer your own questions. Then we can see your level of knowledge and determine if it is worth while to respond.
Jim


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## chatterfeedcall (Jun 5, 2006)

Just leave the limit at 6, outlaw guides, and outlaw robo or spinning wing decoys so that more ducks actually get to make it to maturity.

It does not matter what you say in the argument 
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WHEN A HATCHLING DUCK LEARNS TO FLY AND DUCK SEASON OPENS AND HE/SHE SEES A SPINNING WING DECOY IT IS AN OVERWHELMING ATTRACTANT. HE/SHE MAY BE IN A GROUP OF 10 OR MORE AND THE ONES WHO FLEW AWAY ARE NOT EDUCATED BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT SHOT. THEY JUST ARE SCARED OFF DUE TO THE NOISE. YOU WILL EVENTUALLY KILL ALMOST EVERY IMMATURE DUCK USING THESE AND THE YEARLING DUCKS NEVER EVEN MAKE IT TO THE WINTERING GROUNDS OF LOUISIANA, MISISSIPPI, ARKANSAS, TEXAS, AND MEXICO. IT IS A FACT, THAT THEY ARE STILL IN THEIR SUMMER PLUMAGE IN LATE OCTOBER IN THE DAKOTAS AND JUST ASK ANYONE IN THE WINTERING STATES JUST TWO WEEKS LATER IF THEY HAVE EVER KILLED A DUCK IN THESE STATES IN THEIR SUMMER PLUMAGE AND THE ANSWER WILL BE NO BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE IT THERE. IF THEY DON NOT MAKE IT THERE THEN WHERE ARE THEY???? YOU MIGHT ASK. THEY ARE TAKEN IN THE STATES THEY ARE REARED IN BECAUSE OF THE SPINNING WING DECOYS. I HAVE HUNTED IN NORTH DAKOTA AND HAD NO ROUBLE GETTING LIMITS WITHOUT SPINNING WING DECOYS BUT I KILLED ABOUT HALF AND HALF MATURE AND YEARLING AND I HAVE ALSO USED SPINNING WING DECOYS AND SHOT LIMITS OF ALL YEARLING DUCKS IN JUST MINUTES SO FROM EXPERIENCE OF MY OWN WHAT I SAY IS TRUE. THE POPULATION IS DEVISTATED BY SPINNING WING DECOYS DUE TO THE LACK OF YEARLING DUCKS EVEN GETTING A CHANCE TO MAKE IT TO BREEDING AGE PRIMARILY DUE TO SPINNING WING DECOYS.

MY ADVIVSE IS FOR THE FEDERAL GUYS TO BAN THEM TOTALLY AND ALSO IN CANADA AND YOU WILL SEE AN INCREASE SO VAST IN THE DUCK NUMBERS THAT YOU WILL NEVER MISS THE SPINNING WINGS AND THE SKYS WILL BE FILLED AGAIN. JUST PLEASE EVERYONE PRICTICE CALLING.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

chatterfeedcall,

You are, of course, aware of the progression of the spring breeding season molt, especially as it relates to hatch year (HY) mallards. By the time HY mallards get to the southern states, they are pretty much indistinguable from adults (AHY mallards).

I am not questioning your opinion to ban spinning wing decoys. In fact, I may agree with you there. I am, however, questioning your opinion that most HY mallards are harvested before they reach the southern states.


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

jhegg,

Like the nervous system, feathers are of ectodermal origin, but unlike us...birds red blood cells are nucleated.

Aminolevulinic acid dehydratase (ALAD) is an enzyme reponsible for the synthesis of heme in all higher level vertebrates. Enzyme bioassys of ALAD activity in serum prove exstreamly useful in determining whether or not an animal has been exposed to lead (Pb)...the reason being, is that ALAD is inhibited solely by lead. Assays as such have been used to accurately determine lead exposures in waterfowl for almost 30 years.

All embryos go through stages in exact replication of its evolutionary ancestors during developement....yes, shortly after conception, there was no difference between your physiology and that of starfish....
Ontogeny does recapitulate phylogeny

Now tell me something!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

HY year birds predominate the bag in the Southern reaches of the Atlantic Flyway...By November in the South, hen and drakes are easily distinguished, but only in late December and January do the AHY birds really begin to stick out. I can not speak for the lower Miss & Central Flyways.

This observation however, does not include Mallards....we don't have any!


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

> Just leave the limit at 6, outlaw guides, and outlaw robo or spinning wing decoys so that more ducks actually get to make it to maturity.


For a few species, I'm not sure the available breeding habit is capable of accomodating any more mature birds. I might be wrong, but the average harvest/yr/hunter hasn't changed a whole lot over the last 10 years. There's got to be another reason...The outfitter fad and ROBO are recent introductions.....The current waterfowl woes are anything but new.


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## eyes to the skies (Mar 8, 2006)

Habitat


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

Naaa...from what I've read througout the guest access forums on this site, the only habitat issues of concern to locals in North Dakota are non-residents. Their strategy for the solution appears to be to reduce the bag limit to discourage travelers. Hopefully it's better inside with the other supporting members, but this area is a joke.

Fear not, just about every local in North Dakota not on this site has a completely different view on the matter. Personally, I'm amazed the State allows itself to be associated with this site.

Show me one advertisement or promo here that doesn't involve the extensive slaughter of waterfowl ... by locals to boot uke:


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Skip the potshots and contribute something meaningful or take your toys and and go play in your sandbox. :roll:


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

Not looking for a tussel...just calling em as I see em! ....and your presentation relects on me, my ND friends and ND family.....none of which, share the negativity displayed on this site toward NR's. We welcome guests and surpress judgement.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

dakota31400

I'm still not sure where the hell you are comming from, but I fear it is from a g/o perspective. My impression is that is that if, according to you, we can not 'prove' that harvest has a detrimental effect on the resource, we should continue to "kill the hell" out of them because it doesn't make any difference. What if you are wrong? Then are we are all screwed? Comments?


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

I can assure you there is no link between any G/O and myself....and no-one is killing the hell out of them.....( to be discussed with Bob on the other thread). I am and have always been a free lance hunter. Primarily a sole lone one up until a few years ago. It was always my place to be with myself. Now more than 90 % of my excursions are in the company of my grandchildren, children, old hunting comanions from years gone by...or a combo of both. All of which are free lance tours.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Then when you start bashing anybody whether it is res or non-res, get the facts straight. You have proven that you know nothing about who sets the rules for our duck season. The frame work for our flyway are set by the feds. So if you have a beef with "only" being able to shoot 5 ducks, take it up with them. North Dakota is blessed with one of, if not THE finest Game and Fish Dept in the U.S. Bar none. They are not tied in with the N.D. Tourism dept, Parks Dept, or any other beaurocratic junkpile anywhere. They are however required to abide by U.S. F & Wildlife frameworks when it comes to waterfowl. 
And when you say us residents are upset that you come and take our "best" hunting spots, you are not even close to having the knowledge to find those spots.
Happy Hunting


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

Hunter_58346 said:


> Then when you start bashing anybody whether it is res or non-res, get the facts straight. You have proven that you know nothing about who sets the rules for our duck season. The frame work for our flyway are set by the feds. So if you have a beef with "only" being able to shoot 5 ducks, take it up with them. North Dakota is blessed with one of, if not THE finest Game and Fish Dept in the U.S. Bar none. They are not tied in with the N.D. Tourism dept, Parks Dept, or any other beaurocratic junkpile anywhere. They are however required to abide by U.S. F & Wildlife frameworks when it comes to waterfowl.
> And when you say us residents are upset that you come and take our "best" hunting spots, you are not even close to having the knowledge to find those spots.
> Happy Hunting


To whom are you directing your post?


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

To whoever believes that the North Dakota Game and Fish Dept sets bag limits and season lengths for migratory waterfowl


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

So what's the problem? You have nothing to say. You damn weasels that try to str the pot should all be tarred and feathered. And yes, we do know how to get it done here. Spineless is a better phrase but we let it go for now.


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## dakota31400 (Jun 10, 2006)

I don't see any reference to the NDG&F in this thread. Earlier in another thread I used G&F in miscontext...I meant to use FWS...Don't believe I ever used NDG&F. All the issues I'm refering to are Federally Based.....AHM is not a state program... and 5 ducks are plenty....although I prefer 6.....either way, the best I've ever done on average is 4.7....

As far as hunting spots go, they're not even in my agenda.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

Hunter_58346

Under AHM (Adaptive Harvest Management) The Federal guidelines are set for the season, as of late they have been consistantly "liberal" which allows the harvest of 6 ducks.

The State of North Dakota *does* have the ability to change this if they wish to do so. The State can set the limit to 2,3,4 or 5 ducks per day if they wish based upon conditions. The federal guidelines do not allow states to exceed the federal limits, so the state may not allow the harvest of 7 ducks per day per hunter.

Bob


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

Bob, I guess I should have covered that but thanks. I just assumed that was a given. Although ND can lower any federal limits theyCannot exceed them. Thanks Again


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