# Is the .204 a dependable caliber?



## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Well, as coyote hunting winds down, I must say it's been an entertaining season on the forum , and I've picked up some interesting insights. I've had a hoot, particularly with the .204 debates. Kdog and I have put forward our best evidence why the .204 is a solid coyote caliber. Xdeano and BBJ have made strong cases why the .204 is best left for little critters like PDs. It's been a lot of laughs and while we've given each other the occasional jab it's all been in good humor :beer:.

So, after reading all the pro's and con's about the .204 that xdeano, BBJ, kdog and I have presented, what do all you guys think? I guess this is an informal poll of sorts so throw in your 2 cents worth. Two questions: First, do you think the .204 is a caliber you'd feel comfortable taking it a coyote stand, and number two, have us pro-.204 guys or the not-so-pro .204 guys made a strong enough case to change your mind one way or another.

Good luck and shoot straight whether it's with a .204 or not. BTW I still love my .223. :beer: Saskcoyote


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## Sask hunter (Sep 11, 2008)

I think it strong enough except at 250+ yrd when running shots come into play. The coyote gets wounded for several reasons A) not enough experience to hit them and end up winging them or hitting them in the but. B) too far shots and bad angles. Plus you got to remember varmit bullets are made to explode inside to minimize fur damge So they are not good for the tough angling shots. Big game bullets are meant to stay together and make two holes that why they are fine for tough angle shots on anything. So key point is if your going to take longer running shots bring your deer rifle.


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## AdamFisk (Jan 30, 2005)

I don't own a 204, 223, or 22-250, so I can't speak much from experience. This was my first year really coyote hunting and I used a 308. I will be buying a 22-250 sometime this Spring/Summer. I would NEVER consider a 204, based off the info on this forum as well as a few second hand experiences. Why limit yourself?????? It seems the 204 is only a GOOD caliber in ideal situations. Case in point, read the post above. No running shots at 250, or head shots only (Ambush Hunter), ect ect. I'll stick with what's proven and works. IMO, the negatives of the 204 far outweigh the positives, whatever they may be.

Hey, you asked!!! :beer:


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i have hinted at my experiences with it here. mine disappointed me. with 32 gr. v-max i experienced weak killing power. with the 35 gr. berger i experienced erratic results to say the least. broadside that is. great pelt damage and poor killing. the bullets would zip nearly through, then grenade just before exiting. my .17's did a better job without all the mess, so i went back to those. i know of many people who get solid results with 39 and 40 grain bullets though. it just comes down to bullet behavior. the velocity is more than adequate. the bullet weight is more than adequate, i have killed over 100 dogs with 25 gr bullets in the 17 cal. it comes down to what the bullet does once it finds a coyote. right bullet = dead coyote. wrong bullet = frustration and/or stitch work. this all assumes proper shot placement. will i keep my 204? even though it is a 1/4 moa gun most days, probably not. i just like my 17's better. is the 204 dependable? only with the right load. and a dependable shooter. if you are going to use small caliber guns for coyotes, do your research to ensure that your experience will be a good one when it comes time to trip the switch. :sniper:


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

i'm thinking hard about rebarreling a savage action to a .204. after picking a few minds and reserching on the internet, i've come to the conclusion that the .204 can be a great coyote round if heavier well constructed bullets are used. i will have a barrel built with a 1 -9 twist and shoot 40-50 grain bullets sans plastic tip. heres hoping that sierra comes out with a game king or partition. a barnes tsx would be wicked also. hornady has a 45 grain soft point that may work well. if i can do this this summer i'll keep you posted on results


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Well you know my opinion on the 204 but if you're dead set on using a 20cal then go with a 20x47Lapua. Tim Anderson over on Coyotehunter just built one and the specs that he was stating, I'd be way more comfortable shooting that then a 204.

3800fps with 55g Bergers
4000fps with 50g Bergers
1-9" twist

They have a higher bc then the same weight in .22cal. So there is some potential there. 
By the way Saskcoyote good post.

xdeano


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

if berger would stop insisting on using that huge opening on their 20 cal bullets and offer a target hp also, then those bc's would be much higher. the difference is large. on the 25gr. 17 cal it is bc .190 compared to bc .147ish. i use the target version on coyotes. why do they insist on making only the "varmint" version for 20 cal shooters? especially when the 20 is so popular now. :eyeroll:


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

king,

Berger makes the Target version in the 20 cals. - I have both the 35 and 40 grain. I would never shoot the MEFs (maximum expansion factor) either. Maybe that is why some don't like the 20 cals. - they are shooting the highly frangible MEFs.

I love my .17, it's the best coyote rifle I own, been shooting it for years. I look forward to the .204 - kind of like an "improved" .17. My new Volquartsen semi-auto .204 should be in my hands in 60 days or less. I will be testing all kinds of factory ammo, as well as reloading with many bullet/powder combinations. Can't wait. Many callers appreciate what the small calibers are capable of, and I look forward to sharing any information throughout my testing with anyone interested.

xdeano: You have an obvious knowledge of ballistics, and your posts are always good to read. Your point on the 20 x 47Lapua is well taken for someone looking to jack up the performance of a 20 cal. to the level of a .220 Swift improved. I coincidently have a Swift improved , and I do shoot 50 grain Nosler BTs at 3980 fps as per Ohler chrono. I personally am not happy with the pelt damage I sometimes (often) get with the Swift, and specifically want a smaller bullet in the .204

I get the most enjoyment from calling coyotes when I have zero pelt damage after bang-flopping a beautiful coyote. If I want to have that beautiful pelt tanned, then zero damage is good.

sask: Thanks for starting this interesting conversation. I hope many others add their thoughts.

KD


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i don't see the target version in their flyer? that would be nice.


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## 4JAKE (Jul 13, 2008)

TRY THE 40 gr. NOSLER! Many of the 12 twist 204's won't consistently group the 40 gr. Bergers. The 40 gr. Nosler doesn't seem to have this problem, has a 239 bc, and holds together better than the plastic tip 39 gr. Sierra and the 40 gr. Hornady. I would definately try them before giving up on your 204's as a coyote killer. Having said that, I LOVE those 39 gr. Sierra Blitzkings for accuracy, prairie dogs and everything else smaller than coyotes.


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## plainsdrifter (Mar 15, 2004)

I use anything from my 17Rem though 6BR and each one has bads and goods accordingly. To evaluate my 204 as caliber I find using a Berger 35 gr Match at 3950 fps on a calm calling day situation a sure killer out to 300yd.For me this bullet has entered with no or little visible hole blows up in chest cavity and blood often runs out hole when I pick the coyote up.I always try to take a good standing shot as I am miserable at the running shot at any distance.Negatively I never use it with too much wind and if so limit shot to first 100yds.Hind quarter hits better have a quick followup or might keep going.It had always killed quickly as dead is dead but will not hit as hard or thump like my 6BR.Is one caliber better than the other? I dont know? Maybe. I do know if I had to part with anyone caliber a huge part of my coyote hunting experiences would be lost with it.


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## ay tee (Jun 11, 2007)

i will second the nosler 40gr.... after trying a few different factory loaded and hand loaded rounds... i tried the noslers and wont bother with anything else now... i confidently hit anything out to 400 with a cross wind and 500 on a good calm day...
to me it isnt the gun that makes the round work or the size of the round doing the work... miss places shots are not the cause of the round, its the lack of experience by the guy pulling the trigger... get out, put the time in at the range, figure out what you need to do so that bullet goes where you want it to; and know the limits that bullet has.... does this mean perfect boiler room shots every time... no... it means a better average though...


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

What? Nobodys posted that precious "holy grail" .204 ballistic chart yet? :lol:

If the fox every come back in good numbers, THAN ill own a .204. If that ever happens, ill probably get to shoot a few coyotes with it. But ill sure as heck be picking and choosing those shots pretty carefully. Until than, its pretty worthless IMO with our present "varmint situation".


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

I can't comment on the 204 becuase I have never shot one. I shoot a 223, and it does well for me. If it ain't broke--don't fix it.


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

Great caliber.Just a 17 on steroids and ballistically solid.


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

"What? Nobodys posted that precious "holy grail" .204 ballistic chart yet? "

BBJ,

Now why in the world would we want to confuse anything that you say about the .204 with the facts?

KD


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

kdog said:


> "What? Nobodys posted that precious "holy grail" .204 ballistic chart yet? "
> 
> BBJ,
> 
> ...


 :lol:

Terminal ballistics man, terminal ballistics. Something your holy grail doesnt show and something the .204 doesnt have when it comes to coyotes.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i just rechecked the berger catalog, they still only offer varmint/mef tips only in the 20 cal. glorified dixie cups as far as i am concerned. if the ever offer a true target bullet, i will take notice.
terminal performance? come on folks, let's post some pics of those. recovered bullets would be nice, they tell the real story. if i had owned a digital cam when i was using the 204 ruger, i would have had plenty to go with my observations. anyone out there posses any such pictures with 39/40 gr. bullets? it would add much to this discussion. :thumb:


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

sask,

When I spoke with Tom at Berger bullets, he confirmed that they only have one type of bullet for the .204, a match varmint bullet. I had been quite sure that when I bought my bullets from them (directly) last year, that I had a choice between the larger cavity (varmint) hollow points and the smaller (target) hollow points. I guess I was wrong. All they sell in the .204 is the smaller cavity hollow point, but they do call it the "varmint" match bullet. Confusing? Yes! Tom did say that in the past few years as they were making some changes at Berger, that they had also made some bullet changes, and that some of the earlier .204 bullets may have been of an inferior makeup. He suggested that if someone had poor results with earlier .204 bullets, they should contact Berger, and he implied that they would be given a box of the present day .204s to try. That is why I contacted kingcanada, as he had stated that he had poor results with his .204 at about the time Berger may have had an inferior bullet.

Tom at Berger stated that they have been hearing mostly good things from people shooting the 35 and 40 grain .204s for coyotes. He did encourage anyone to call or email with their thoughts on these bullets, and encouraged any input from the hunters out there in creating a better product.

KD


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

I do need to call them. they really do need a 20 cal with the true "target" tip for bc. purposes. the other manufacturers have them beat weight for weight in the field of aerodynamics when it comes to 20 cal. offerings.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

I know its a tripe at this point in firearms debate, but shotplacement really is critical to all forms of hunting.

Having owned and operated a 204, as well as studdied its ballistics, I must has that the 204 Ruger is a lazer... that explodes. While muzzle blast is high, recoil is low, trajectory is very flat, and factory ammo is high quality. These features combine to make a caliber that is highly shootable under field conditions. Unless your shooting over 275 yards (the MPBR of the 32gr loads) there is very little if any guess work as far as hold over; simply aim at vitals and fire. Aditionally, the 32gr 204 factory laods maintain an optimal game weight of 45 pounds (the size of a large coyote) out to 200 yards, so out to that distance a well placed shot shoudl have no trouble dropping a coyote sized animal.

In short: the 204 maintains enough power to take any game reasonable for such a cartridge, and can do so anywhere within its considerable point blank range.

In my opinion, anything smaller than an antelope is fare game for the 204 inside of 250 yards.


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Hey trooper,

Thanks for the input. I couldn't agree more. My new rifle (.204) will be in my hands in mid July. :beer: I will be testing my new .204 this Fall with several bullets, but plan to use the 35 to 40 grain projectiles when I call coyotes.

KD


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Yo, kdog: Good to see the Big V will soon be arriving. Wow, you've got a lot more patience than I ever would but I'm sure the wait will be worth it even if a .204 isn't a serious yote rifle :rollin:. Used 40-grain Bergers over 28 grains of H4895 (grouping .61) last winter for dogs and am more than satisfied with them although if I have the time this summer, I'm going to try to do some fine tuning. It'll be interesting to see what the "V" prefers -- the 35 or the 40-grainers. Keep us posted. Have a good summer. :beer: 
Saskcoyote


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Sask,

I truly hope the V is worth the wait. Yeah, it took ALOT of patience - about all I had. Other committments unfortunately will keep me from doing much testing until late Summer/early Fall :roll: I will keep you posted.

Hope you have a great Summer as well :beer: 
KD


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## rod03 (Jun 20, 2010)

A few months ago I bought a Savage model 25 in .204 with thumbhole stock . Its a great shooting gun , spot on and consistent kills,.. but it just does not have the shock factor I id like to see . 
wish I woulda bought it in .223 cal or better yet id like to see them chamber this gun in 22-250 .


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## ILcoyote_amateur (Dec 26, 2007)

For those who are looking for a solid .204 coyote bullet, try the hornady 45 gr spire points. I've gone back and forth between these and the 40 grain v max but in the end the 45 seems to provide conistent penetration and killing power. They sometimes exit on a broadside shot, but always DRT if I do my part.

Unfortunately, firing a 45 grain bullet out of a .204 isn't much different than a .223. But, I've already got my .204 and it does its job. If they start offering a better 40 grain bullet I'll switch, but I'm not sold on the polymer tips for yotes.


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## JuvyPimp (Mar 1, 2005)

This debate has been going on for years on here lol. BBJ and I have gone rounds over this at least once a year.

Still have my .204 and I still love it. Its the only gun I take out everyday and its the only gun I shoot in calling contests. I rarely have shots past 300 anyways so its fine for me. My longest last year was a 450 yard shot on a hung up coyote. I carry a shotgun with me on every stand as well so these two make a perfect combo for ME. ME is the most important point in all of this since its completely up to who ever shoots it and how ever you feel about the caliber afterward. I personally dont have any issues witht he caliber and like it.

That 20 x 47Lapua sounds awesome. I would love to play with some bigger bullets but I dont reload (mostly due to being to busy) and the only other option is the 45 gr from hornady. I was at a gun show last year and saw a couple of boxes of the 45 so I bought them. Still have not tried them out though. 34 gr hollow points or the 40 gr hornady v max are all I have used a lot of.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Hi guys, that time again. Seeing we had a lot of fun last time around, thought it might be good to chew on this old bone again. Thought I'd throw in a few stats to help the discussion on the .204. Opinions are good, it's the results in the field that count, in my books anyway.

Looked at my records tonight and because I alternate between the .204 and .223 here's what my records show. Of the last 27 coyotes I've shot with the .204, only two got away, one for sure a gut shot, the other likely the same, and both were high-ballin' when I lit the fire (I'm not much good on running shots). Of the last 27 yotes I've whacked with the .223, one was a runner.

As for distance, my average shots are 60-80 yards. This season, I dropped a yote far beyond my average shot, 340 paces, with the .204, much further than I generally feel comfortable shooting but it was DRT (and the Harris Bi-pod deserves full credit).

So, when we talk about whether the .204 is a good coyote caliber, all I can go on is what my experience tells me. I'm shooting 40-grain Bergers over 28 grains of H4895 at about 3780 fps. Seems to work for me. Again, based on my experience, if the .204 isn't your bag, it's because you're shooting way out there or maybe you just need more practice.

Yo, Kdog, how's that BigV performing, Hope to hear from you and the other regulars soon. Tonight up here, it's a blizzard and tomorrow isn't forecast for much better. But Thursday more is clear, the dogs are gonna be hungry and the .204 is going to be smoling. :sniper:

Good luck and shoot straight. Saskcoyoyte :beer:


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

I think much of the "hype" over the .204 has worn off, this assumption is based solely on the number of .204's im seeing on the used racks as of late.

Hmmmm, maybe I should pick one up on the cheap now that theres a bunch of used ones available.......in anticipation (or hopeless hope) that the fox make a comeback! 

Ive seen first hand the .204 in action on coyotes. Those experiences are what makes me believe it is to coyote hunting like a .223 is to deer hunting (at least with the lighter bullets it ballistically excels at spitting out). Will it work? Yes. Is it the best caliber for the job? Nope.

And at least in the primary area I hunt, the benefits of a caliber that can efficiently and regularly reach out and kill at extended ranges is getting to be greater and greater as there are more "hunters" out after coyotes than ive ever seen. Calling from pickup cabs, doing "50 mph" sneaks, and basically doing anything and everything they can to condition coyotes in a negative manner.

Thats just what I get for living on the crappy side of the state.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Oh yeah, I havent lost a coyote with the .22-250 in three years. oke:

I just jinxed myself. :lol:


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

Glad to see you back Saskcoyote.

you must have ment to put this in the prairie dog forum... oke: We can have it moved if you want. 

Good to see you're still kicking the dirt.

xdeano


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

xdeano said:


> oke: We can have it moved if you want.
> 
> xdeano


I'll do it I'll do it!!!


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

Hey Sask,

The weather is also crazy here in Minnefornia (I learned that new term from Fallguy, and kinda like it - it fits).

I am quite anxious to get out hunting with the new .204. Had a dream the other night though that I tried it out on a prairie dog town, and everything that I hit square in the chest somehow dragged itself off to die in their hole. 

Nice shot at 340 yds (really just a chip shot though for a real coyote rifle) 

KD


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## l2andom (Oct 19, 2010)

Hey sask, what rifle you using? Always willing to give new things a try :thumb:


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

funny kdog! If you even knew.

xdeano


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

kdog said:


> The weather is also crazy here in Minnefornia (I learned that new term from Fallguy, and kinda like it - it fits).


Actually I got the Minnefornia term from xdeano if I remember right. I have another term for Minnesota that I use in it's place that I made up...but I can't use it on here.


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