# Are You Willing To LEARN???



## TRMichels (Apr 2, 2008)

I was thinking about this - this morning in the shower:

The way many hunters "learn" hunting techniques - in this day and ages - is from hunting videos, TV shows, articles and seminars, and sometimes in talk forums. And the people doing the writing or speaking - are often considered "experts" - because they have killed one or more fairly good sized bucks - and received some "notoriety" for it as a result of their big buck kills.

But, many of these people hunt in conditions and/or places - that are not accessible to the average hunter, or hunt areas known to have several big bucks on them (places that my or may not charge the "average Joe" hunter.

IF (big if) they hunt under those conditions, does that make them "experts" on how, when, where and why to "hunt" the areas, and the deer, under the conditions - that average Joe's hunt???

Do they really have the experience to suggest productive "how-to" deer hunting techniques, tactics and tips???

Personally knowing many of the "been around for a while" TV personalities, writers, speakers and video personalities - I can definitively say that some of them can offer suggestions that will help the average Joe hunter, and some of them are not offering good suggestions for the average Joe hunter, who often hunts on "limited size private land" or public land - who does not have access or the money to hunt the areas many "deer personalities" hunt.

Hopefully I, because, I have hunted several years on public land, because I have been an outfitter and guided other hunters for several years, and because I have researched deer for 10 years - on areas that would be available to the average Joe hunter, can provide some information that will help you understand deer biology and behavior better, so you understand why deer move where and when they are most active, and provide you with some tactics, techniques and tips that will allow you to become more productive hunters &#8230;

This is what I try to do for you guys on the talk forums, and what I try to do in my books, articles and seminars. I want to try and help you become more productive hunters&#8230;

With that in mind - I need to ask you some questions:

1. When you hunt, do you go out to simply locate a good place to hunt any deer, to hunt bucks, or to hunt bucks with large racks?

2. When you hunt, do you go out to hunt a "particular" buck you may have seen during your scouting sessions.

3. Do you scout, and what do you look for when you scout?

God bless,

T.R.


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## Ande8183 (Sep 18, 2005)

1. Typically hunt for larger bucks

2. Some years I get out bowhunting enough to find a shooter during rifle season. I am almost exclusively spot and stalk with the bow. The years that I do not find the shooter, I just take a chance during rifle season and hope to come across one big enough.

3. I have rarely gone out just to scout, due to the long distance from home to where I hunt (800 miles roundtrip).


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## TRMichels (Apr 2, 2008)

Your's is a fairly typical situation - long driving time and limited time to hunt.

I think I have some ideas that can really help in your situation - so stick around (become a member here - so you get notified when someone posts something new), become active, ask questions, post your ideas - and possibly learn something, or teach others.

God bless and good hunting,

T.R.


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## Ande8183 (Sep 18, 2005)

My situation is fairly typical, but it is an area that my family has hunted for over 80 years. Some of the land is my grandpa's and some is USFS. Over the last 10 years we have been noticing some very interesting things. The whitetail are moving into typical mule deer habitat, and the mule deer are completely moving locations during pre rut. Most of the mule deer bucks typically spend their time in one general loaction during the summer and early fall. When late Oct rolls around, nearly all of the mule deer travel to a different draw (roughly 5 miles away) for the rut. We rarely ever see mule deer and whitetail does running together, but we see mule deer and whitetail bucks running together quite frequently. TR, do you have much experience in areas where whitetail and mule deer coexist? Just curious about how they react to each other.


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## TRMichels (Apr 2, 2008)

I used to run hunts on a huge lease slong the Niobrara River in noth central Nebraska - where there were both species.

I've sen them both feeding within 10 yards of each other, and no more than 30 yards from a flock of turkeys.

And I've seen the deer s actually feeding with the turkeys, or the turkeys actully feeding with the deer - whatever the case may be.

I suspect that (as been prolposed by many biologists) that whitetails fofr some reason "push" mulies out of the area, because they are more aggressive and more prolific breeders (sheer numbers).

If there is a preferred mule deer food source in one area, it may explain why the mulies move to that area at particular times of the year (they don't eat [or prefer to eat] the same things as whitetails do) . Or it may simply be that the whitetails are more aggressive during the rut, thus forcing the mulies to go someplace else.

Here is an excerpt from my book "Hunting Northern & Western Big Game Animals" which may help you somewhat.

Subspecies
There has been speculation that mule deer are descended from white-tailed deer, and there are documented cases of hybridization between the two species, However, recent studies of DNA show that all mule deer are originally descended from mule deer mothers. In the wild it appears that only male white-tailed deer breed mule deer females, male mule deer do not breed female white-tailed deer, probably because white-tailed females run from male mule deer, which cannot keep up with them. Mule deer in North America are divided into ten subspecies.

Rocky Mountain mule deer (O. h. hemionus) - North and South Dakota and Nebraska, the panhandles of Oklahoma and Texas, Nevada, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, southwest Saskatchewan, southern Alberta, and southern British Columbia. Desert mule deer (O. h. crooki) - western Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and northern Mexico. The California mule deer (O. h. californicus) - southern California except the southwest corner. The Southern mule deer (O. h. fulginatus) - upper Baja Peninsula and southwest California. The Sierra Mountains mule deer (O. h. inyoensis) - eastern slope of the southern Sierra Mountains. The Peninsula mule deer (O. h. peninsulae) - southern Baja Peninsula. The Tiburon Island mule deer (O. h. sheldoni) - Tiburon Island off the western coast of Sonora, Mexico. The Cedros Island mule deer (O. h. cerrosensis) - Cedros Island off the western coast of Baja California. The last two deer are not hunted. The Cedros Island Mule Deer is on the endangered species list.

Black-tailed deer are considered a subspecies of the Mule Deer. The Black-tailed deer (O. h. columbianus) inhabits the Coast Range and Cascade Range of Washington and Oregon. The Sitka Black-tailed deer (O. h. sitkensis) inhabits the coastal regions of British Columbia and Kodiak Island, Alaska.

Mule Deer Biology
Mule deer were given the name because of their large ears, which range in length from 18 to 24 inches. Because of these large ears, and the more open areas they live in, mulies can probably hear better than whitetails. They also rely more heavily on their eyesight than whitetails. Dr. Valerius Geist claims that mulies can instantaneously pinpoint the slightest movement of another deer at 600 yards. This suggests that to hunt mule deer you should try to go unseen by using terrain, shadows and camouflage, and keep noise to a minimum.

Mule Deer Hunting Techniques
The usual methods of hunting mule deer are stand hunting, and glassing and stalking. Stand hunting is usually done near trails, food sources and watering areas deer are known to frequent. When glassing and stalking the hunter usually spots the deer with binoculars at long range, then makes a stalk, trying to go unnoticed until within range. Many mule deer are taken in this manner while the hunter is elk hunting. If you have time, the best way to hunt mule deer is to use a combination of glassing, stand hunting and still-hunting; this is done by spotting deer in the morning as they feed and watching them as they head for their bedding areas. Then you can return in the evening to see if they come out to feed again. If they do you have probably found a prime feeding area. Once you have found the bedding areas and feeding areas you can either still-hunt the bedding area at midday or stand hunt the feeding area at dawn or dusk.

Hunting High Country Mule Deer
High country mulies can often be found on east facing finger ridges open to high mountain meadows, and bowls where browse, succulent forbs and grasses occur. They will also use southern slopes when the weather is cold. On warm days they often use open shaded areas on west facing slopes, where they can gain the advantage of cooling winds. Mule deer graze more than whitetails, and open meadows provide plenty of green food. Be particularly aware of edges; transition zones between forest and meadow, stream or pond and meadow, even conifer stands and hardwoods. Studies have shown that within 50 feet either side of an edge twice the number of plant species occur than are found farther into either type of habitat. This provides abundant food for the animals.

Scents, Calls and Rattling
Mulies are not as susceptible to the variety of products used to attract deer as whitetails are. I don't know of an instance of a mule deer buck reworking a rub, and they don't appear to make scrapes. But, they do urinate frequently on their tarsal glands - does may be attracted to this scent. Techniques used on whitetails employing scents and setting up near a rub line are not as productive with mulies. There are mule deer scents on the market. I use 4x4 Mule Deer Scent from Wildlife Research Center, which has worked on well on un-pressured deer. It also works as a cover up.

Calls will work on mule deer. Mule deer does call to one another and their young; using a grunt call may cause a buck to show itself, or bring it into range for a shot, especially during the rut. Mule deer bucks following does during the rut may make a sound similar to a fawn bleat. It is suspected this call may stimulate maternal instinct in the does. This call may bring in other bucks. It may be just curiosity, but if calling brings the buck in closer, or stops it long enough for a shot, then it has served it's purpose. There are reports of deer running in when they hear a predator call. I suspect it resembles a distress call and deer come in to investigate.

Rattling works for mule deer, but mulies don't fight as much as whitetails and buck concentrations are not as high, which results in fewer responses. Thrashing or raking brush works better that rattling because mulies thrash as an expression of dominance. Using a rack or stick to break small branches and thrash brush can make any buck within hearing range curious.

God bless and good hunting,

T.R.


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## Gildog (Jan 30, 2007)

1. Hunt to see whatever deer are in the area; Northern MN farmland/swamp/forest...and farm/riverbottoms in MO
2. not after any particular animal; I like to harvest does because there has been so many deer last several years in both areas. I don't religiously practice QDM on my farm because of short time I have to hunt. In MO, I am now obliged to follow point restrictions and it worked well this year--opening day I had to pass on 6 pt I likely would have taken previously (I only have 30 acres to hunt in this spot) but next weekend took legal, mature 8 point.
3. I scout for which fields have the best feed/deer use in MN, and plan accordingly. In MO, I scout for fence crossings relative to feed the deer are using.


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## TRMichels (Apr 2, 2008)

I've got some tactics that may change the way you hunt.

God bless,

T.R.


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## wburns (Feb 27, 2009)

I work on a lot of USFS land so when out there I look for sheds and deer themselves and mark the areas with GPS points. This allows me to go back and hunt several spots if needed. I don't always get buck tags so a lot of years I shoot does. I know where plenty hang out so it is not a difficult task to fill those tags.


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## TRMichels (Apr 2, 2008)

Here is the way I go about guiding for and getting close to trophy class whitetails.

Because:

1. I am always looking - not just for any deer - and not just for bucks - BUT, for bucks that will score above 140, and above 170 if possible (in that area) -

2. as a result of reading the research papers of several top biologists, and the experience of my own 10 year research project into the biology and behavior of deer - I have a fairly good understanding of how they will react to the weather each day, and what activities they will exhibit during the different phases of the rut -

3. I understand the whitetails in most areas have traditional home ranges every year, with a "daytime core area" where they spend the majority of the day, and that bucks in particular, have preferred "very lightly used trails" (because there is generally only one buck using the trail, none direction, one tine per day),that they use as they leave their core areas in the evening to go out and feed or look for does, and often another "lightly used trail" they use as they go back intro their core area in the morning -AND that bucks often leave evidence of where they travel - by leaving rubs and scrapes (which is why we call it a "rub route"; and that these buck trails or rub routes often parallel the more heavily used doe trails, but may be up the hill, down the hill or in heavier cover, and that these buck trails can often be found near food sources -

4. I know that the terrain and type of habitat the deer are in often governs where they have their daytime core areas, bedding sites, travel routes and trails, and where they feed and water -

5. I realize that the hunting pressure - and type of habitat (particularly food sources) on adjacent properties - often governs when and where deer may enter or leave the property I hunt

6. I realize that the weather each day - governs to a great extent how active deer will be that day, and when and where they will be thaqt day

7. I realize that by glassing the property, from one or more areas where I can watch the enitre property to actually see deer, from high spots or roads and open areas - and by actually "field scouting" the property to look for deer sign and determine where the travel corridors, trails, buck trails, rubs, scrapes, core areas, bedding sites and food and water sources are -

I realize - I just can't gain enough information about a piece of property -from an aerial photo and a topo map - to determine the best places to hunt for deer, none the less a particular large racked buck.

So - my answer is - I would not hunt it - without doing some glassing and/or field scouting - first. And at least taking into scout where the preferred food sources are that day, which phase of the rut the deer are in, and the weather conditions that day.

Because of the way I hunt, and with my personal understanding of deer behavior - It is kind of and unfair scenario (trick question) for me - because I know weather is a big factor in when and where deer move - no matter where I hunt - I want to take into account the habitat and the wind, also the rut phase the deer are in, the amount of hunting pressure there might be in the surrounding areas, which might affect "where and when" the deer come onto the property I am on, ande Anything else that may affect deer activity that day.

I've not had a situation where I could not scout (at least a bit - say "all day" before the hunt). BUT, going in basically blind - I'd choose a site - depending on what the weather was doing the day of the hunt.

I'd go to low-lying, protected or wooded areas if the wind was above 10-15 mph - and I'd set up closer to where I think downwind-bedding areas are (the downwind side of the hill). If there was medium to heavy precipitation - I'd look to hunt near areas with overhead cover, and expect the deer not to move too far.

If it was hot I'd expect the deer to be in or near the heaviest overhead vegetation (for shade, and possibly in areas where the wind might cool them off in the shade, or in or near water (the lake or swamp if there is one). I'd also expect them to move during the cooler part of the day, with them (and me) playing the wind and thermals for morning and evening hunts.

My plans depend on how much time I have to glass, field stalk, and the sign I see - both before the hunt, and while I'm hunting - and my plans and hunting locations may change based on what occurs each day, and what I find, or see each day.

First thing I would do is, pick as many spots (up high - like I do elk hunting) as needed - to see as much of the property as I could, and glass it both sunset an sunrise - several days (or weekends) just prior to peak breeding in that area - then I'd narrow down my field scouting to the areas where I saw the biggest buck. Or - if no buck shows - possibly where I saw the most amount of doe activity, or I might just go with my "gut".

Next I'd try to hunt the week of peak scraping, or the week before peak breeding - when the bucks are still fairly predictable as they go about making and checking scrapes .

If there is forge (in the form of agricultural crops or other food sources) in the area, and depending on which way the wind in that area is blowing, and If I could scout the area around the property, and knowing that older bucks like to bed down on the downwind side of hills (during the day), I'd look for a rub route leading up onto any thick cover (especially wooded ridges), I'd look for a buck core area on the downwind side of those ridges, and if a stand site was close to the core area (but not in it) I'd setup there in the evening to see if the buck walks along it's rub route and get a shot at it. I also want to know what type of forage is available to the deer - in the nearby area.; such as agricultural fields, and were they cut/harvested lately - i.e., if there is an alfalfa field; is it still growing up, or has it been cut and baled within the last week; or has it been cut, baled and has started to grow back - with new, lush, tasty, green growth in it? It makes a difference where I may setup.

That is just my initial way of choosing a spot, if it doesn't work, I do more field scouting (actually looking for sign). Although I rely to a great deal on the type of habitat and the topography - to tell me where the deer may be - I also rely to a great extent on glassing, and a ton of field scouting - to locate prime travel routes, rub routes, scrapes, and daytime core areas (especially those of bucks).

If I can't scout at all before the hunt, I rely much more on my general knowledge of deer core aras, bedding sites and travel routes, and combine it with the use of a topo and an aerial - then choose a spot. If I don't get anything the first day, I quit hunting about 10 -12, and "still hunt/stalk" the property to look for sign - until about three hours before sunset. If I see something while "still hunting" - fine - if not I choose the best location based on what I've seen that day while scouting.


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## TRMichels (Apr 2, 2008)

While we are at the shows, many of us seminar speakers, writers, authors, TV personalities, outfitters and other exhibitors - not only see each other at the show daily, but we often see each other at several shows each year. And we often end up having breakfast, dinner, and generally hanging out with each other.

I like to think of us as "modern day gypsies" traveling the country from show to show, peddling our wares, and trying to make a living. After a while - we become a big "family", especially after 12 years of doing it, seeing the same guys over and over again.

My daughter Tawnya has been doing this since she was about 7 years old, and she is 22 now. She has met so many of these poeple, and been around such a long time, and has such a good personality, that many of the people have "adopted" her.

And, because of her personality, and they like her so much, she has become the "designated" person to pick on, 'cause she knows that they are kidding, and that she can handle anything they throw at her.

Anyhow - I've not been on the show circuit in two years, due to health problems, so I don't know some of the new "hunting personalities".

BUT, which hunting personalities (speakers, authors, writers, professional hunters, pro-staffers, TV guys) do you like???

God bless and good hunting,

T.R.


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## alleyyooper (Jul 6, 2007)

Here in Michigan on public land you had better know the escape route the big buck uses to get to his hidy hole. Or just plain be lucky. The first 3 days are the most important too for getting a big buck on public land that will have as few as 40 hunters per square mile many times more than that if the area held a big buck that made the news or news paper. Many years ago I decided to hunt some public land. When it got light I counted 15 hunters across the small valley I was at. I heard a cough behind me and low and behold I could see 5 hunters with in 50 yards of me. I got up and ran to the truck and got away from that place.

I shoot deer like this all summer long out my living room window.








Because my back yard is a feeding area and a travel route.

Who says that bucks are in buck groups during the summer?
Meet mister mom.









I watched this guy all summer. He bedded down in the tall grass behind my pole barn. I never seen him again after Oct. 18th till Nov.17th when he came running thru my shooting lane chaseing a doe that wanted nothing to do with him. He died about an hour latter when he chased that doe along the edge of a corn field behind my place and a hunter was in a blind on the edge of the woods.









Here are 3 bucks at the same time in the back yard.









Because of the creek we get herons too.









Shooting big bucks in private fenced areas off limits to most hunters is a fish in the barrel shoot.

 Al


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