# Query: roostbusters v. outfitters - what would you do?



## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

Put on a lot of miles today. Found 2 interesting spots at midday. Each spot had a fair amount of fowl. Each was a fair-sized lake. Each had a pea field in the immediate vicinity. Each pea field was posted by an outfitter. There was no "transition water" around (despite what you read on this site, for the uninitiated, there is often not a "transition slough." This year, with the extremely dry conditions, there will be darn few "transition sloughs"). So&#8230;what would you do? Do you give a crap if the outfitters roost gets burned? Should you care?


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

That's an interesting zen-like question. I would have thought it would spark discussion here.

What do you think the outfitter would do if the roles were reversed?

M.


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## Phil The Thrill (Oct 21, 2005)

well it looks like you are between a rock and a hard place. i would probably try to find a new area to hunt, or try to set up in a near by field. if were very desperate i would bust the roost, hopeing that the birds move to a new area where you are able to hunt um' right. just my :2cents:


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## 870 XPRS (Mar 12, 2003)

MRN said:


> What do you think the outfitter would do if the roles were reversed?
> 
> M.


Probably down wind you if the field wasn't posted.......

Sit on the fenceline and shoot at anything within 100 yds if it was.....

Try to find a field close and constantly drive his pickup around your field....

I have yet to see a guide or outfitter with morals,,,,and I really wish I would, then maybe I wouldn't hate the industry so much....but i've really yet to see that.

The one guide that I started to believe had morals, just lied straight to myh face. Cosntantly took people where he shouldn't, and downwinded anybody that was to his field first. I realize they must have an obligation, but there is a time and place to tell your people that it is hunting and not shooting.......get over it....we all do.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Shoot the roost.


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## tclark4140 (Aug 8, 2006)

you know waht i dont understand. is why anyone would want or need a guide, in north dakota. it must be people with too many fancy clothes, guns and money. or else they are too lazy to clean their ducks and set out there own decoys, cause ya sure dont need a guide or outfitter.


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## brianb (Dec 27, 2005)

> you know waht i dont understand. is why anyone would want or need a guide, in north dakota.


The same reason they hire a plumber or mechanic. They don't have the tools or knowledge or time to do it themselves. So they hire someone with those things and have an enjoyable time. Not really that complicated.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

"So&#8230;what would you do? Do you give a crap if the outfitters roost gets burned? Should you care?"

NO you shouldn't care.


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## tclark4140 (Aug 8, 2006)

if u were asking me if i cared. no i dont really care, i would just go as far aaway as i could. we come to n d. to get away. we like to go to the most far away spot and hope we dont see anyone during the hunt. than we like to come back to the motel and shoot the sh## with everyone. we stopped hunting the marshs here in iowa because of the idiots. that down winded you, or thought any duck they could see was in range, or pass shoot one duck out of range when you had a flock working the decoys. so i wouldnt lower my self to there level, i would just get away from there situation


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## HonkerExpress (Sep 23, 2005)

My opnion is I really don't care for the outfitters/guides. I mean yeah, they are doing what they are doing because apparently they are good at it. It just makes it alot harder for the normal joe to get on land. I am totally against the whole roost busting idea, but if it was to screw a guide/outfitter over, ROCK AND ROLL. :beer:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

WOW.......

I can't believe the attitude on this thread from some.

What I would do.....is find a different spot to hunt. I would not shoot a roost! If you shoot the roost you are the ones that are being *unethical*! Yes *unethical!* If you were to shoot the roost by accident of if that was the only way you hunted....not unethical. but if you are doing it to harrass or disturb someone elses hunt....*UNETHICAL!!!!* I don't care if it is a guide you are distrubting. You are ruining someone elses hunt. Just like the guide who drives around your spread, or knownly downwinding your spread!

I would be ashamed of you who would shoot the roost to ruin someones hunt. I hope I never run into you in the feild. Because hunters like that give all hunters a black eye!

Chuck


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Don't shoot the roost....why would you want to act like a few of the outfitters with no ethics?

Set up in a nearby field...wheat, barley whatever. When the shooting starts those geese are going to go somewhere else..you may be able to pull some into the other fields in the area.

Have some ethics...just because others would mess up some elses hunt doesn't mean the majority of the waterfowler have to start doing the same.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

I would shoot it in a heart beat, if I didn't like the outfitter! If it's someone you have meet and is a stand-up guy leave it for him! *Most* (not all)outfitter's wouldn't hesitate to screw you.



> I can't believe the attitude on this thread from some.


My attitude comes from years of being screwed by an Outfitter.


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## HonkerExpress (Sep 23, 2005)

MAVERICK, You took the words out of my mouth. The outfitters I have run into up here I could give 2 chits less about. I have been screwed by em many times and probably will have to put up with it for who knows how much longer. If it was a good guy that I got along with, I wouldn't bust the roost but if its the guys I have had the pleasure of dealing with, trust me it would be done in a heart beat and I wouldn't think twice about it.

If you guys had to put up with some of the chit I have seen done by a couple of individuals up here, you wouldn't be sitting there saying its unethical.

(1) instance. I was set up in a field with a couple buddies, this field happened to be next to a field they had leased up. This guy sits and watches up for most of the afternoon, finally he drives right into our decoys and starts chewing my azz for hunting to close to the section line. Probably 200 yards away from the land he has leased. :eyeroll: Needless to say this is just one of the stories I have about him. For another time, another place.

So would I bust the slough? chit pass me the shells, I am rolling up on it. Laters. :sniper:


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## goosebusters2 (Jan 13, 2006)

If you saw them sitting there at midday, then it is probably a midday lounge spot, ans it might not be where they roost, hunt it late morning, and early afternoon, then leave so if the birds do roost there they will be able to come back after they feed in the evening


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## N2Duks (Aug 27, 2006)

goosebusters 2 said my thoughts perfectly...try it...you might be surprised!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Honkerexpress.......TURN HIM IN......That is harassment. You have obtained permission to hunt on that piece of ground. If he comes out while you are hunting and chewing your azz he is harassing you. He is not the landowner. If there are more stories.....turn him in!

Maverick....same thing. If the outfitter is doing wrong (morally and ethically or worse) turn them in. Make a call to a CO or Game and fish. Report the outfitters name and if you can get it lisc number. If an outfitter gets a few complaints and they keep piling up....something will get done about it! Or the CO or game and fish will be looking more closely at the operation.

Don't be afraid of blowing the whistle on these guys.

The attitude that I was refering too is......people preach "DONT SHOOT ROOSTS!" But they if it is to screw over an outfitter....HELL YEAH SHOOT THE ROOST! *TO ME THAT IS JUST SELFISH!* WHat about his paying clients. These people worked hard to save up some money for maybe a once in a lifetime trip. Maybe it is a son taking his elderly dad out for "one last shoot". Or a handicap hunt. You don't know the clients circumstances....and yet you are willing to ruin there time in the feild..... again....that is just *SELFISH!* Have some consideration for others.

Maybe attitudes like this are another log on the whole R vs NR issues. I don't know about you but I am doing everything in my power to try to extinguish that fire! But one man pissing on a forestfire will take years to put out.

Chuck


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

It just that easy ehh!!!! :eyeroll:


> The attitude that I was refering too is......people preach "DONT SHOOT ROOSTS!" But they if it is to screw over an outfitter....HELL YEAH SHOOT THE ROOST! TO ME THAT IS JUST SELFISH!


Sorry but I am a firm believer of "An eye for an eye" in some cases.
Reread my statement. If it is someone who has done something like this before(not liking him), it's not going to stop! I guarantee it! Even if the authorities are involved! It happened in my instances!



> WHat about his paying clients. These people worked hard to save up some money for maybe a once in a lifetime trip. Maybe it is a son taking his elderly dad out for "one last shoot". Or a handicap hunt. You don't know the clients circumstances....and yet you are willing to ruin there time in the feild..... again....that is just SELFISH! Have some consideration for others.


Purely a "what if" statement!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Maverick......

It is just that easy to make a call! Most people have cell phones. I have two CO's numbers programed into my phone. Also before I hunt (any state) I find out where the nearest CO or game and fish office and get the number. Just incase of questions or if I see laws being broken! YES IT IS THAT EASY.

WHo cares if it is a what if statement.....the clients did not pay to have thier hunt ruined by someone. They worked for that trip. They don't deserve to have it ruined by anyone.

Because your beef is with the outfitter! NOT HIS CLIENTS!
_____________________________________________________________

off topic:

And if you believe in an eye for an eye.......I feel sorry for you when someday someone with the same attitude will get you. Maybe read the post about the kid who was killed in a fight! They each thought an eye for an eye and look what happened! And yes you can make this comparision....because a fight is "An eye for an eye" situation!


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

Maverick, That's a tough one. I am not a fan of outfitters and their antics (sometimes). But I also consider the clients of the outfitter. They are spending hard earned money. Of course the outfitter should have alternative spots if some turn out useless. I don't know what to say. Sorry.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> WHo cares if it is a what if statement.....


What if it's an ******* who has no respect for the land!
Your statement hold no value to me!!!



> Because your beef is with the outfitter! NOT HIS CLIENTS!


Actually anyone who pays this guy, and keeps his operation going I have BEEF with!



> And if you believe in an eye for an eye.......I feel sorry for you when someday someone with the same attitude will get you


You see you wrong there! I am not the one who started it. So I got screwed from the begining! You logic makes no sense!



> They each thought an eye for an eye and look what happened! And yes you can make this comparision....because a fight is "An eye for an eye" situation!


No they fought because they had their differences! It wasn't retaliation for a instance that happened earlier.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

To give you guys a clue I am talking about SS. I do not like the guy a would bust his geese. He has done it hundreds of times to other people, and my family. Now say if it was G/O or Kyle B. from the website, I would leave it for him. So stop with the "what if" stuff. It's all assumption! No facts!


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT CLIENT DOES NOT RESPECT THE LAND! 
if you roost bust and ruin someones hunt.....do you respect the land? Do you respect the resource or are you just doing it out of revenge?

Plus be the bigger person! Do things the right way. Why lower yourself to what the g/o is doing to pi$$ you off.

_______________________________________________________________

And about the fight......they had an arguement....one thought the arguement did not go his way....lets fight.....that is an eye for an eye!

Again....One person lost out of arguement...so I want to kick the others azz. EYE FOR EYE in his mind!

*NOTE:* I apoligise if this talking about the tragic accident that happened with that fight is offending anyone. I was just using it as an example. My thoughts and prayers go out to both families.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

> HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT CLIENT DOES NOT RESPECT THE LAND!


HOW DO YOU KNOW HE DOES?



> Do you respect the resource or are you just doing it out of revenge?


WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAS HAPPENED TO YOU FOR THE LAST 10-15 YEARS COME TALK TO ME!



> Plus be the bigger person! Do things the right way. Why lower yourself to what the g/o is doing to pi$$ you off.


WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAS HAPPENED TO YOU FOR THE LAST 10-15 YEARS COME TALK TO ME!



> And about the fight......they had an arguement....one thought the arguement did not go his way....lets fight.....that is an eye for an eye!


YOU DON'T KNOW THE FACTS SO STOP ASSUMING! AND NO THAT'S CALLED *FIGHTING!*


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

So without the smaller water holes around this year what happens to those birds that get pushed off of the big roost? I'm assuming in years past they scattered and got spread around to smaller pieces of water here and there? Will they just fly to the next large piece of water only to be pushed off of that as fast as they can set their wings the first time? This is not gonna be good. In years past we were always able to leave the big stuff alone when we hunted with the waders but what will guys do this year who hunted that way before without blasting a roost? I am really glad we hunt the fields now and would never bring the waders again but for those who do I think almost have to roost bust. I am not just too excited about ND this year, field hunters will get screwed up day to day by this and I think it will get real ugly in a few weeks. :eyeroll:


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Chuck,

Just to make it clearer for every one. You are assuming I would do it to all guides! Which is not what I said! If someone has done it multipule times to me. I would bust his geese. Which is what has happened to me for 10 -15 years! That's the fact here! Not assumption!


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## Ridge Nelson (Jan 19, 2006)

I think the original question is if you should hunt this place or not. I think thats a decisoin you need to make, But definatley think about if you will end up screwing yourself by pushing the birds out of the area and then you cant hunt them. Outfitters kind of bug me too because they have darn near everything secured around hear. Its a question of morals in my opinon.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

An outfitter leasing up a bunch of prime stuff to exclude everyone else but those who pay has morals?


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Personally, I would NOT bust the roost. That is shooting yourself in the foot. If you bust the roost, those birds are gone - nobody, including you, gets a chance at them. If they are busted out of a posted field, they will go somewhere else to feed. You still have some opportunities to hunt those birds. Bust the roost, and you don't. How hard is that to understand?


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

The only outfitter that gives anything back to kids or the general public is g o! If there are any others give me examples of what they do and who they are. If you can do that maybe I will change my mind. If not shove it. One good guy out of 100's of leeches is not enough to justify the profession. They do nothing but hurt the business in my town. They reduce the number of freelance hunters. The freelancers are the guys that spend the money. Guides are not liked in my town by the business owners or anyone else.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Old Hunter,
I 100% agree with you about g/o. If all guides operated as he does, there would be no anamosity expressed from the general hunting public to guides and outfitters. Unfortunately, he is a lone branch blowing in the wind. If the ND G&F Department were to ever establish a set of regulations for guides and outfitters, the operations of g/o would supply the perfect model!
Jim


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I have got on g/o's case a number of times, but he may be one of only two guides that I have any respect for. Surprise g/o. Anyway, although I wouldn't like roost busting some of these guys deserve whatever they get. In the event he has people with him, they will take those stories back home. One can only hope they know why this outfitter is having conflicts. 
This drought is tough on ducks, and although it will creat short term conflict, there is a chance that some long term solutions may result. Maybe, just maybe some people will begin to understand the hunter pressure concept. Once the nonresidents show up, they will be asking themselves why they came. Hunters will be close together and having conflicts this fall. The birds will be concentrated and pushed of available sites rapidly. I doubt if there will be much to shoot at by the end of the second week. Sorry for the ducks, but have you ever heard of the old cliché that every cloud has a silver lining. The silver lining in this one is a few leeches sucking at the public resource may go bankrupt.


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

There are some very good and ethical outfitters operating in ND, the problem is that we never hear about the good things they do and all are judged by the actions of the ones that feel above the law and then get to meet Mr Burkett from NDGF Commercial Enforcement. I know of several of them that do a great deal of "giving something back" to the resource that provides them a very good living.

Like it or not, for the most part they operate within the laws that ND has put in place to regulate the industry.

I would like to see a little tweaking of the regulations, I have stated that more than once on this site.

If you have a bad experience with an outfitter spend your time visiting with the enforcement division of the NDGF, They will listen, probably more than most here will. Mr. Timian and Mr. Burkett are very reachable.

Now back to tb's question. *No I would not bust the roost*, I did it when I was in my teens but since then I have learned from my mistakes and have tried to become a sportsman that understands the big picture. If this particular roost is busted because of disdain for outfitters, look for more land in the area to get leased up and posted to counteract this behavior.

Ask yourself "will it solve anything or is it just smug gratification"

Do what you want I can not control that. If you chose to listen your inner self it will let you know if it is the right or wrong thing to do.

Later


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Thanks Bob,

g/o, 
By now, I assume that you are speechless! Nontheless, I still think you are one of the few (if not the only one) who are doing it right!
Jim


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## mburgess (Aug 11, 2003)

Don't shoot the roost, find a different spot and be the better person. You'll feel better about yourself in the long run. This is what I have actually grown to love about hunting, is having to find new hunting spots you can never have enough. This is an interesting thread, I know I'd feel bad about my actions in the long run if I shot the roost, but that is just me. To each their own. Good luck with your decision.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

This comes down to a personal choice, and I would leave the roost, and not out of respect to the Outfitter, but from the fact that roosts will provide for hunting opportunities beyond the posted fields.


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

Well boys if I sound bitter there is no denieing it.On my own defence you have never heard me say one bad thing or give any crap to g o. I believe K B has made some respectable offers to Delta youth hunts. If there are any other respectable outfitters out there I am still waiting to hear of their contributions. For years I was privy to more information about the rogue guides than all of the rest of you put toghether(with the exception of Drakekiller).My neice worked for the ND Dept of tourism. It was her job to travel the country and set up booths to promote the state. Hunting and fishing was the biggest part of the presentation. She was a pimp for the guides. Capitol hill is a small clique. If you know the right people you can get the information.My niece could not tell the general public but she would pass it on to me. I knew of more illeagel activity than you would believe. Pushing elk with horses to private land,exposed bait traping of eagles, outfitters cutting deals and getting off with no punishment the list could go on and on. Yes I am bitter.
Back to the point of contention. If an outfitter has a huge area tied up with all the best areas controlled (they are there) when the birds leave the roost they fly to his controll. If they should go to one of the few fields that are not under his control you can bet he will be on that land with his clients anyway he can. Its his job to get those birds. Some of you say to move on find another area well go ahead I will not. I would rather load some floaters in my boat and if the roost is a public lake shoot it than let the guide and his shooters enjoy all the good hunting.Hopfully I will bump the birds 50 miles south and some other guys will enjoy some shooting. If they go to South Dakota so be it there are plenty of freelancers there.


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I think that here would be a good time to let the people that don't know, that OH and MAV are from an area that had/has one of the worst rogue guides that ND has ever seen. OH and MAV are not bad guys, they are perhaps a bit jaded by what they have witnessed from a guide that was busted many times for many infractions. I am sorry if I am putting words in your mouths guys, but I thought that people should know why and where your school of thought comes from!

Be careful g/o, I think Heggeness wants tou give you a hug soon!!!!


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## HonkerExpress (Sep 23, 2005)

Sorry to say, but I still have to agree 100% with Maverick and Old Hunter. When I was a kid I was pushed around by these same guys that are trying to do it now. I can remember when I just started out hunting with my dad, (who passed away in 2001). I used to love hunting, but when the same two guys I had to deal with there chit when I was 14 that I am dealing with now when I am 24, when does it stop. You say it ruins hunts for these guys that pay these conartists to take them out? SHOULD I REALLY CARE? What are they doing for the community? What are they doing for the sport? NOTHING. All these guys are doing is spreading the word of how they got on this great land, with these "GREAT GUYS". Please. I would ruin a hunt for them if I had the chance.

I have had to move from land I used to be able to have free range over when I was 14 three times now. They just keep loosing land and moving closer and closer to where I hunt now. I might sound a little bitter and a little upset, but I AM VERY BITTER AND UPSET. Why should I worry about these guys and there business when they don't do anything for except a select few? I have no intention to tread lightly around these guys. Maybe when I was in my teens I would worry about not pissing them off, but now. Please, I have seen these guys do what they did to me when I was younger to some of the younger kids around my home town that just try to get out and hunt.

In short, yeah, this is a very opinionated topic. Some guys will say not to, other guys that have had enough of the guides/outfitters will do it just because they remember what we have had to deal with. So in short, my hat gets tipped to Old Hunter and Maverick. I can relate 100% with them. For 10 years I have been having problems with the SAME 2 GUYS. Every year its the same thing. So for me to boost their roost and ruin the hunt for a couple guys that are paying big bucks to hunt. TOO F'ING BAD. I haven't done it yet, but trust me, if I get my chance to screw these guys, i will do it in a heart beat.

You say to call the gamewarde or the game and fish on them, WHY? Whats going to happen they get a slap in the wrist and then they go home. Thats even if they come up. These two guys call the Gamwarden on daily basis and talk to them. They know most of them very well. I am not saying its a corrupt deal up here, but they aren't going to do anything to them. Other then ask some questions and go home. Just my two cents.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I think the question is moot if it's a public lake like a WPA.Someone will hunt it.But I would find it hard to not hunt it if everything around it has been leased up.So I agree with Mav. and Old Hunter.Especially if I had run ins with the G/O before.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

> So&#8230;what would you do?


What would I do? I would go to the outfitter and ask permission to hunt one of his pea fields. Why not!! I doubt most outfitters would have many clients in this time of year and most I know would let you on. Hell they don't want to see the roost busted either. If I'm not full I let people on free of charge all the time if they ask. Sometimes through the season I'm full and I would expect that people would understand that but I usually will also point them in the right direction.

Last season I had a gentleman from MN call and ask permission to hunt, I gave him permission. When he came back the second time he asked again I again let him on. When he was done he called me and said. I understand you lease the land you let me hunt . I informed that was correct. He then said I understand you charge people for hunting at your lodge. Yes that correct. I'll never forget his last comment. He said , Man your stupid you lease land and charge hunters and let me hunt free. No thank you or why, but you are stupid to do this.

There is another thread on this forum where they ask where are the sportsmen. They are still out there but are harder to find. Not that don't exist it is the busy schedule people keep now days. Farming has changed dramatically in the last decade and it will continue on its path. They will get larger and will get more aggressive. So take some time when you go scouting but also take some time to visit and get to know some people.

Thanks for all the kind words that were spoken here of me for a change.



> Be careful g/o, I think Heggeness wants tou give you a hug soon!!!!


Just make sure you watch my backside Dan :lol:


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## roostbuster (Oct 19, 2005)

i am very proud to see people on here defending their posts concerning busting outfitters roosts... people were saying i should have the CO's called on me for saying the same thing a few months ago, but apparently these ideals have changed over the summer and i am very happy to see this.

guiding/outfitting should be banned in my eyes as it is simpy the modern day version of market hunting.

go out there and bust those roosts fellas!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

g/o said:


> Thanks for all the kind words that were spoken here of me for a change.


Can't you feel the love in the air. :roll:


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

g/o,

I think Dan likes you!


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## Daren99 (Jul 6, 2006)

I would bust the roost. Is it the high road? probably not. It sounds like g/o is one of the few ethical, generous guides out there. My experience with outfitters and those of other people I've talked to haven't been very good. I've lost alot of good hunting ground because of them, and alot of good animals because of them. I don't want to see happen in ND what has happened in every other good hunting area of the country. Regular working class fathers,mothers, sons and daughters are being and have been pushed/priced out of the sport for lack of accesible land and opportuninties. When I was a kid there wasn't a question of where we gonna hunt, it was when we leaving. Now you not only have to scout for animals and birds you have to scout to see if the land is leased up. Years ago I was visiting relatives in Colorado and we got to talking about hunting, and he was saying how he didn't know if he could afford his goose lease that year, I had no idea what he was talking about until he explained it. Is that what we have to look forward to here? I hope not, I don't think I will have that problem I grew up on a farm and know alot of farmers and their families, but other people may not be so lucky. I think we need to protect our way of life in this state any way we can.

just my 2cents


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## hydro870 (Mar 29, 2005)

It is defineately ethical to shoot the roost in this situation. Take your 5 birds. Hopefully the other birds will move to an area where they can be hunted by sportsmen, rather than sold as a cheap commodity.


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## biggamehunter06 (Sep 13, 2006)

Let me start by saying that I KNOW I will never change anyones opinoin on this page but it really is upsetting to see the animosity towards guides and outfitters....please just give me one minute to vent and I will stay off your board and site 
I work full time NIGHT shift year round, hubby works days full time (with the handicap- 8 years) for approx 23 years so our kids didn't have to go to a babysitter...I love to hunt...I love to see kids hunting...I will talk your ear off about my hunting trips-bear, elk, deer, birds, you name it...I took our 18yr old son for his graduation on a guided Elk hunt in Mont (left dad at home)haha...I worked many extra hours at the hospital to pay for a mom and son trip of a lifetime. I am on our rural volunteer ambulance service. Our oldest son jumped into a freezing slough last year during late hunting season to pull out an 80 yr old couple who had fallen asleep at the wheel.and went into the water...he never thought of himself...When my pager went off..he said lets go...no one else attempted to jump in the water. The water was so cold that by the time he carried out the elderly man he almost went under himself. ...oh did I forget to tell you that he is a guide..sounds like a guy that's a real jerk? ..His best friend/bestman at his wedding spent a year in Iraq...very dangerous area...so that we could have our freedoms..he is also a guide...quess that makes him a jerk..by now I am sure you have figured out where I am going...our hunters buy their food, groceries, gas and supplies in our town and neighboring towns..Every house has lists of community activities for the hunters to go to and a list of business to spend their money at...Most every kid knows that I am a big pushover for every community and school funding event in the country and they show up all the time and I love to give...just ended up buying 20 pizza's yesterday...I could go on and on but I am sure you don't really want to hear it..but before you bash guides and outfitters... remember they may be a really nice family who loves to hunt, follows the rules, gives BACK to their community and we just may be one of the persons who is pulling your family out of an accident or giving his life in Iraq for this country. Thank you for letting me vent and I know that there have been a lot of bad things that many hunters have done..not just outfitters and guides..I hate cheaters when it comes to hunting no matter who they are. It is really hard for me to read this website knowing how most of you feel and then knowing how passionate we are about our family, friends and hunting...thank you


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

No one does all good deeds, or all bad deeds. No matter what one does or how he serves others they still don't have the right to sell wildlife. I commend your son and his friend for the service they have done for us all. I served as a scout master for many many years and was a counselor for 19 different merit badges for 12 years. I don't have the right to charge someone for a single pheasant. Things are not as simple as they look on the surface. 
I have no problem with the services guides provide. I have no problem with the board and room outfitters provide. I do have a problem with them attempting to hog the public resource.

Timothy McVey served this nation in the military = good, bombed a federal building = bad. 
Don't get me wrong I am not comparing anyone your talking about to McVey I'm just trying to get the point across that one thing sometimes has nothing to do with the other.


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