# Poll:Favorite 20ga steel load/choke for ducks



## ksfowler166 (Oct 2, 2011)

What is your guys favorite steel load/choke combo for ducks? What sort of range and patterns do you get?


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## goosegrinder (Mar 4, 2005)

When my son had his 870 youth 20ga., he had the best pattern with a factory modified choke and Kent Fasteel 3" #3s. Easily effective to 30yds. on both ducks and geese.

Alex


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## dsm16428 (Feb 19, 2009)

None of the above. Remington WingmasterHD 3", 1 1/4 ounce 6's and 4's teal to big haonkers...got it covered. :thumb:


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## yellowgoosedog (Jan 24, 2010)

can't go wrong with either 2 3/4" or 3" hevi shot 6's for ducks! hevi 4's for geese. Makes the 20 bore a real deadly choice. IF I had to choose from the list then Rem 3" 1oz of #3 does a great job on quacks too.


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## HugeBurrito2k6 (Oct 25, 2011)

6 shot on ducks!? I hope you like eating BB's. Not to mention you will wound more birds than you kill. Totally unethical. Do yourself a favor if your serious about waterfowl and go buy a cheap 12 gauge with the money you would have spent on all this hevi shot shells. :withstupid:


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

HugeBurrito2k6 said:


> 6 shot on ducks!? I hope you like eating BB's. Not to mention you will wound more birds than you kill. Totally unethical. Do yourself a favor if your serious about waterfowl and go buy a cheap 12 gauge with the money you would have spent on all this hevi shot shells. :withstupid:


Sorry but wrong. Heavy shot being far more dense than steel means less pellets in the same weight load (like lead). It also carries neary twice the energy of a same size steel pellet. This means that you can step down several sizes in your pellets and still maintain the energy of the larger steel shot. And while normally in stepping down you increase the pellet count, since the hevi shot count was already lower than steel to start with you get only a negligable change thus maintaining a similar or slightly better pattern density, with smaller shot and similar energy. I fail to see how that will result in more wounded birds. As a matter of fact probably just the opposite. You will likely get an additional pellet or 2 on the bird with similar or a slight increase in energy and no excessive amount of pellets to deal with. I don't use hevi shot (too costly) but hunted with lead in the pre-steel days. #4 and #6 lead were common and effective pellet sizes for waterfowl. Hevi shot has a slight edge over lead. And while fast steel loads are proving to be effective slow and heavy nearly always maintains it's energy better than light and fast.

Dig up some ballistic charts and look at the numbers..........


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## dsm16428 (Feb 19, 2009)

HugeBurrito2k6 said:


> 6 shot on ducks!? I hope you like eating BB's. Not to mention you will wound more birds than you kill. Totally unethical. Do yourself a favor if your serious about waterfowl and go buy a cheap 12 gauge with the money you would have spent on all this hevi shot shells. :withstupid:


Wrongo!! If a #4 steel can knock a bird DEAD at an avg of 50 yards at a starting velocity of 1500fps, and a #4 Hevi pellet can do it at almost 75 with a starting velocity of only 1300fps. Start that same laod out at 1450-1500fps like most waterfowl loads do, and that #6 Hevi pellet can most assuradely kill a duck and even a yes a goose, (though I don't recommend it on geese), at 50 yards all day long. PLUS, you're getting more pellets and thus a DENSER pattern with the smaller but equivilantly dense Hevi pellet.

I'll post this up...AGAIN just in case somebody missed it. oke:

Effective maximum Yardages for killing waterfowl
--------1300 fps-----1550 fps--1700 fps---1300 fps 
----------Steel--------Steel--------Steel----- Tungsten Iron 
4----------44-----------50-----------53----------74 
3----------47+----------54+---------56----------79 
2----------51-----------58-----------60----------85 
1----------54-----------62-----------65----------90 
B----------57-----------65+---------69----------96 
BB--------60------------69-----------73----------100 
BBB-------63+----------72+----------77-----------N/A

numbers don't lie

lead shot has a density of 11 grams per cubic centimeter
steel shot has a density of 7.7 grams per cubic centimeter
Hevi-Shot, Remington Wingmaster HD, Federal HD, and Winchester Xtended Range HD are all tungsten alloys that have a density of 12 grams per cubic centimeter.


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## HugeBurrito2k6 (Oct 25, 2011)

ok everybody. Lets ask ourselves some basic questions.

How much does a box of tungsten shells cost? Umm I'm looking at kent tungsten matrix box right now at 27 bucks for 10 SHOTS!!! So after 100 rounds of these you could have paid for a nice used 12 gauge and 100 3" kent fasteels.

Secondly you are talking about 60+ yard kill shots. Now lets be honest how many of us have missed ducks at 20, 30 yards every now and then? I have been hunting for 12 years now and i still have those days when i will miss a couple easy 20, 30 yarders. It happens. Now i consider myself a good shot but there is no way i would ever pull up on a duck or goose for that matter 60 yards out and pull the trigger at $2.70 every boom hoping i get a bird.

IMO the sport of duck hunting and goose hunting isnt about how far you can shoot them, it is about how close you can get them to come to you and watch the flock work your decoys as if they are landing into a real flock of birds and are clueless as to what awaits them. I have use the cheapest shells i can find and guess what? I kill lots of birds 95% being dead on arrival.


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## dsm16428 (Feb 19, 2009)

The question isn't ethics. It's how far that pellet...and a good pattern can kill. The thing that offsets the cost of HTL loads over steel is the sheer performance advantage provided by the smaller, denser pellets holding their energy farther than their equivilantly sized steel shot. Hevi Shot for instance is almost twice as dense than steel shot. We all know...well most of us know, that taking those kind of shots is not responsible. Unfortunately, there are guys that will do that or, more to the point guys that have no idea what a duck or goose in the air at 60 yards looks like and are killing birds DEAD and they think that that bird that was just crushed at maybe 40 yards was killed at 60...or farther. Most HTL turkey loads with modest velocities of say 1300 fps MAX will flat destroy a turkey at ranges in excess of 70 yards and a turkey is a whole lot tougher than any duck or goose I ever met. We see it all the time though..."I kill birds at X distance all the time". Most of those statements are pure BS imo. Is taking shots at those ranges ethical...maybe not, but if the pellet will do it and your pattern will hold up (through thourough pattern testing!), I say go for it. But I won't.


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## clint_hay (Aug 25, 2010)

neither....mid range patternmaster with kent fasteel 3" 2"s or 4"s


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2012)

I shoot 20 guage several times a year just for giggles and grins.

I ALWAYS roll with Hevi Shot duck in 3" #6 when I do... Hevi Shot will smoke ducks all day long and being number 6 shot I have a whole lots MORE pellets and when shooting a 20 you need all the extra pellets you can get.


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

hugeburrito,

Your fairly new to waterfowling at 12 years under your belt and never had the experience of shooting waterfowl with lead,what treat it was...Today we have hevi shot products to make up the difference between lead and steel loads and I'll 2nd the "better than lead" as well.

PS~ Guyz that consider themselves good shots will also shoot less shooting hevi metal and hevi shot,the new "speed ball' coming out late summer will not only give you weight and density but also speed,over 1600fps in .12ga loads.

If ya have'nt tried hevi shot products don't knock'em until you do,its night and day better than steel.

Sorry for the OT rant guyz.I'm out.


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## HugeBurrito2k6 (Oct 25, 2011)

Snow i am going to buy a box of that speedball shotshell you are talking up on every god damn thread just so i can shove it up your ***. If you want to shoot lead shoot godamn lead! Did you know in ND if you get caught shooting lead it is a 100 dollar fine and nothing goes on your record? So before i would ever buy your speed ball crap i will take my chances with lead. Enough with your speed ball nonsense! And 12 years experience counts for nothing? I think you have no experience if you feel the need to shoot this big fancy load you keep talking about. Learn to shoot steel like the rest of us. I have not had a problem killing birds with no experience :withstupid:


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## Beavis (Jan 30, 2012)

HugeBurrito2k6 said:


> Snow i am going to buy a box of that speedball shotshell you are talking up on every god damn thread just so i can shove it up your a$$. If you want to shoot lead shoot godamn lead! Did you know in ND if you get caught shooting lead it is a 100 dollar fine and nothing goes on your record? So before i would ever buy your speed ball crap i will take my chances with lead. Enough with your speed ball nonsense! And 12 years experience counts for nothing? I think you have no experience if you feel the need to shoot this big fancy load you keep talking about. Learn to shoot steel like the rest of us. I have not had a problem killing birds with no experience :withstupid:


In your first post you said shooting smaller shot was "totally unethical." Then you say you would rather risk a 100 dollar fine doing the wrong thing, shooting lead??? Oxymoron possibly??


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## HugeBurrito2k6 (Oct 25, 2011)

^ 6 shot steel is unethical. The comparison that i was making between the hundred dollar fine and this cartridge is simply the fact that i would rather get pinched for shooting lead which is the best hands down and take a 100 dollar fine then buy 4 boxes of this awesome speedball round and pay 100 bucks that way just because snow is talking up this product like no other. Just another designer load to screw people out of their hard earned buck. Can you see where i am going with that big guy??? And as far as being unethical what i said was totally hypothetical. I Guess i have found out how to kill ducks and geese with steel and i do it efficiently and effectively so i will not have to resort to hevi-shot, bismuth, and now this speedball crap....with my very limited experience.


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## Beavis (Jan 30, 2012)

I will agree with you, if you shoot a lot, it's pointless to drop that kinda coin on high priced shells. If you DECOY birds, Kent's or xperts will do just fine. IMO just another gimic so companies can pay for their marketing


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

hugeburrito,

Don't get mad and all whinny,grow up and grow apair,shoot what you want,down the road you may just learn something rather than trying to be a "no-it-all" with a whole 12years of waterfowling,by the way the 1st couple years don't count because your dad was mentoring you with decoy spreads and calling,maybe he still is?

Alot of folks are chimming in here in favor of environ metals ammo,why is that? might just be there is something to it...Scoll back up and re-read dsm's post if you can read a chart,ballistics tell the story bud.Nuff said.

Quote~Snow i am going to buy a box of that speedball shotshell you are talking up on every god damn thread just so i can shove it up your a$$.

So,what ya gonna do? try speed ball like you said or just roll the dice and shoot lead?or you could try hevi metal for less money.LOL 

ps Only one thread on speed ball,"new waterfowl load for 2012" whats the problem? afraid to try these loads and find out you might like them?


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## Beavis (Jan 30, 2012)

just to let you know snow...picked up a case of KENT FASTEEL last weekend!!! i might not kill any birds this year since im not shooting speed ball.

spent 150 bucks....i wonder how much money i would of had to spend to get 250 rounds of speed ball?? 10 shells per box @ $30 bucks a box...about $750???? could of bought 5 cases of fasteel for that, or a nice used gun, or a whole new lanyard of new calls, or alot of gas money, a few more dozen dakota decoys....


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## snow (Dec 7, 2007)

Or you could've bought a case of hevi metal to put more birds on the ground for about the same money if they bring back the $50 rebate this fall like last year.

Again,shoot what you want,what ever your budget allows and makes ya "happy,happy"thats what counts.


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## Beavis (Jan 30, 2012)

snow said:


> Or you could've bought a case of hevi metal to put more birds on the ground for about the same money if they bring back the $50 rebate this fall like last year.


Not sure how i would kill "more" birds just by shooting hevi metal. thats like believing a commercial you see on tv saying you will kill or catch more by using XYZ brand.

i would say 90% of my shots are with in 40 yards....tungsten, steel, bismuth, hevi-crap, or what ever you shoot, it doesnt really matter. all pack a punch powerful enough to kill a bird at that range.

Ive been hunting for 20 years....i think in 20 years, i would figure out what works, and what doesnt day in and day out.

have a good 4th snow.....maybe your speed ball can double as a firework :beer: :bop: :rock: :thumb:

PS...sweet pic on the hevi shot web site


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

What it seems to come down to is most guys are willing to spend whatever money they have to get that last bird it takes to fill their limit.. I suspect on the average day most guys could probably shoot 90-95% of their birds with standard steel shot and never know the difference. It's that last 5-10% they just can't stand to have to pass up or let get away. So if they are hunting ducks they would rather spend $20 getting 6 birds than $4-5 to get only 5 birds........They can have at it..me I'm :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: all the way to the bank with my 5 birds in hand. It doesn't matter how effective a round is or how far the range is eventually it will never be enough (again). If you effective range is 40 yards there will always be the 50 yard bird you have to pass....if the range is 60 there will be the 70 yard bird and guys will want a shell capable of taking birds at that range.

Blackload is a good example of and idea gone awry. Many shooter were bragging up Blackcloud but the problem was it was destroying close range birds (which were probably the majority of birds on any given day) so what does Blackcloud do... develop a short range load..... which probably has more performance than necessary for the range it is intended.
Now our shooting bags and blinds are suddenly full of all of these specialty loads to help us get that one or two extra birds instead of just shooting at the ones in range and passing the ones out of range.

It's insanity and the ammo companies are cashing in on it big time.....for now..... It may hurt them in the long haul because they have set a standard new product development which the hunting community will continue to demand of them and they may not be able to meet or keep up with. They will spend millons on R&D for products, of which many will have a short lifespan, and increase their production costs across the board due to the extensive product variety they have to provide.

Some guys are OK spending the extra money and claiming it is one of the smaller costs of hunting but it also one of the controlable costs for those on a budget..

And I've seen the TV shows.... the guys shooting specialty shells are missing just as much as we are........... The only difference being their misses cost a lot more than mine............... oke:


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## Anas Strepera (Nov 10, 2004)

No option for lead?


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## tilley (Jul 28, 2011)

I shoot 20 ga. exclusively and my favorite load is 3" Kent #3 @1550 fps. Deadly on all ducks and have smoked more than a few big Canadas stone dead with this load as well. Get em in range and shoot like you are suppose to and pretty much any will work but this one my Beretta really likes. IC and Mod choke.


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## DuckDefiner (Jul 18, 2011)

My buddy was short for cash one day and offered me a mossberg 500 20 gauge for $100 bucks and he threw in the 2 boxes of kent 3 inch 2 shot. It just had the factory choke. Took it out the next day to try it. First group of ducks came in missed my first shot adjusted completely whacked the green head and there was also a pintail in front of him 2 for 1 deal. Didnt miss a single duck the rest of the day went 6 for 6 for the first time ever for me. So from my point of view id say kent 3 inch 2 shot. Although my farthest shot that day was probably 35 yards.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

Oh brother! It seems like we got quite a bit of argument here! I will start by saying that I have killed more ducks with my little side by side 20 ga. than my 12 ga. during the past few seasons. It is choked imp. cyl. and modified. We are talking pretty noticeable numbers here. I use it for decoy hunts and most of my shooting is at 30-40 yards. 50 has occurred with the modified choke barrel. My load of choice? When teal are the main objective I shoot 1 ounce handloads of #6 steel. I load up with an ounce of #4 steel when bigger ducks are the game. No blistering velocities, funky shaped pellets, blended pellets, high density pellets, or dilithium crystals! I did begin my career with lead shot, but have had little trouble with steel. Too many folks whine about steel, it is not as bad as some folks say. 
#6 steel unethical? Tom Roster shot ducks (wild mallards)stone dead, between 45 and 50 yards, with boring regularity using a skeet bored 12 ga. and one ounce of shot. I still have some of the filmed footage. I have killed quite a few large ducks with it when they dropped in while I was loaded for teal. Is it my top choice for ducks bigger than teal? Not at all. But let's face reality: we are talking about using a 20 ga. for ducks (geese go down also, with #2's). Long range performance is not the topic here. I use a 10 ga. with 1 3/4 of shot if I want to kill birds far.


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