# When's a good breeding time?



## deerslayer80 (Mar 27, 2007)

I have a one year old pure bred German Short-hair. I heard that it's good to wait until she's 1.5 yrs old before trying.  I'm not to sure wether or not I want to get her spade after her first litter, but I would like to see if it slows her down some. I was told that if you get your dog spade, you should breed them one time first because it's healthier for them. She is a very good hunting dog with great blood lines. When is the best time of year and the best age to have her first litter? Any input will be greatly appreciated.


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## stonebroke (Dec 16, 2004)

deerslayer80 said:


> I have a one year old pure bred German Short-hair. I heard that it's good to wait until she's 1.5 yrs old before trying. I'm not to sure wether or not I want to get her spade after her first litter, but I would like to see if it slows her down some. I was told that if you get your dog spade, you should breed them one time first because it's healthier for them. She is a very good hunting dog with great blood lines. When is the best time of year and the best age to have her first litter? Any input will be greatly appreciated.


I've never heard that it's healthier for a dog to have a litter of pups before spaying.... I'm guessing it's an old wive's tale. Having a litter of pups will not slow her down (well, maybe while she's pregnant and/or nursing . Her energy level, speed, range, etc. is mostly a result of genetics and training.. You might want to wait until she's older to see if she settles down...it could be a puppy thing, but more than likely it's not. If she is too much dog for your style of hunting you need to determine if it's because of what she has inherited, or if it's because she hasn't been trained properly.....gotta be honest with yourself on this one. :wink:

If you do decide to breed her, most breeders do not breed a dog until its second heat cycle and many wait until a dog is at least 2 years old. Here's what I do when making a decision to breed or not:
1.) Get the the hip and eye certifications done (and any other testsing that might be breed specific)... 
2.) Wait until a dog has at least one full hunting season under its belt so that field ability can be evaluated.
3.) I don't breed before the 2nd heat cycle and many times not until the 3rd cycle.
4.) Make sure dog has a sound temperament, trained easily, and is built properly.

If there are any problems that stick out like a sore thumb, don't breed. No dog is perfect, but if a dog has a major flaw don't breed. Hips and eyes are a given....if the dog fails a CERF and/or OFA/Pennhip exam, it's automatically eliminated as a candidate for breeding. Same goes for a poor temperament..... I won't have a dog with a poor temperament on my premises.. It's one thing I will not tolerate. Hunting and retrieving ability are much more subjective..... You have to decide if all the "right stuff" is there. Ditto for Conformation. You want a dog that moves well, doesn't tire easily, looks good, etc. but like I said....the perfect dog doesn't exist. Once you identify weaknesses in your dog, breed her to a male that is strong where your dog is weak.... The general rule of thumb is that when you breed you try to double up on strengths and eliminate weaknesses... It's not just a matter of having a good hunting dog from good lines and breeding it to another good hunting dog from good lines.. Sometimes that works, but if you want to gave a really nice bunch of pups be honest when you evaluate your bit*h and do your research to find the right stud dog that will compliment her.

Are you set up to handle pups if you have a litter? Do you have a whelping area, place to have the pups as they grow, etc.? Are you prepared to keep some pups for several months if you can't sell them all, or are you willing to give them away? If you sell pups and they have problems are you willing (and able) to refund the money to the buyer and/or take the pup back? Do you have the time to take care of a litter of pups? They require a lot of care....you'd be amazed at how much cr*p a litter of pups can produce!!! Just some things to think about.......


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Just neuter her ASAP it will not have any effect on her speed and neither will breeding her.

The only thing that will slow her down is age and experience and not much.

Why do you want to "slow her down"? Just curious.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Great post Stonebroke!


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## deerslayer80 (Mar 27, 2007)

Well first off, I would like to say thank you very much for the advice. With the advice given I'll wait until next season to do so. I will be better set up to handle the pups and have more time to train my dog further.

I have to be honest; the only time I want her to slow down is when she's at home. I know the breed is very energetic, and I wouldn't give her up for the world. I notice during hunting season that she's better at home, that would probably have to do with the activity factor. Currently I'm deployed overseas and my wife is taking care of her, and she doesn't get as much field time while I'm gone.

The other reason I wanted her to slow down is because she tends to move very quickly through the fields. I know now, that it's my training that I need to work on. She is a very good instinctive dog. I spent a lot of time with her this last fall and she caught on with everything I tried to get her to do near immediately. The only problem that I've been having is that she runs through a lot of birds still, not to mention she tends to keep searching for more birds instead of finding the downed ones.

Mike, I read one of your replies to another guy on the retrieving, and I think it's very good advice. I'm going to work hard with her when I come back home.

Basically, I was told by some friends that having a litter and time would slow her down some, and she'd be easier to train. I know now that the time aspect is because of the experience and she'll know me and what I want better.

As far as the breeding is concerned, I'm not is a hurry to have any pups, and I don't want to try and become a breeder or any of that. Later on down the road I would like to breed her to keep one of her pups, or is it better to buy a dog from a different bit*h. I'm not an expert on dogs or a very seasoned upland bird hunter. I'm just getting into the sport and I found out that it's something that I will only grow more passionate about. So any helpful advice or criticism is greatly appreciated.

Again, thank you very much for the advice...

Joe


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Joe,

A few tips I've learned myself:

1. You've acknowledge you're a novice trainer and upland hunter. So in reality, you don't really know how to gauge desirable/undesirable traits. This translates into not fully understanding the difference between breeding or not breeding your dog. Sure, you may acknowledge a trait or two, but trust me...in several more years you'll be much more discriminative.

2. More than likely your dog is too young/inexperienced for you to even know if you want to breed her. What if she doesn't turn out to what you expected? If you breed her, you're bringing pups (with her same traits) into the world. Breeding should be done to "better the breed," not because you want a pup out of her. This leads me to my next point...

3. If your dog does demonstrate the desirable traits and you really like her, why not skip the breeding and go back to the breeder you got your pup? This way you can get a pup from the same/similar lines without having to have a pup. Stonebroke outlined important considerations to have when deciding to breed. In reality, you could go back and and buy another dog out of the same line, for about the same price you'll pay to have these pups...maybe even cheaper...now the last point.

4. You probably don't know all of the expenses associated with having pups. There is a lot of testing most breeders are doing before even breeding the b!tch. There will be vet check ups, puppy shots, puppy food, sleepless nights. What if mom and/or pups get sick? Do you have $1000 or more to dedicate to vet bills?

My honest opinion is you're not ready to breed yet. You have a lot to learn and there will come a point you'll be much more comfortable in your decision. I'm not trying to deter you, but trying to give you an unbiased look at your situation.

Take care and be safe over there!

Mike


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## deerslayer80 (Mar 27, 2007)

Mike,

You brought up some very good points and thank you for you opion and advice. I now know I'm not ready to train another dog for a while, yet alone have a new litter of them. I have a lot I want to do with the one I have now, not to mention I have to sharpen my training skills as well. I can't see myself getting another pup until I get mine where I need/want her to be. Do you happen to have a book on pointers???

Thanks again,

Joe


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Joe thanks for what you do, we are proud of you.

I'm no expert either, I just play one on this board :lol: but I've been fooling with GSPs ( lots of them) since the late 60's and everything your dog is doing is normal stuff they all do.
You should not concern yourself a bit about it, she will mature and most of what you now see as problems will blossom into a hard hunting sensible bird dog, everyone I've ever owned went though what you describe and they all turned out fine.

I have been lying in bed recovering from surgery on my ankle for the last 10 days and have two more weeks of total bedrest before I can start to put weight on it again. My wife and this week with spring break my college age daughters are taking care of my 6 GSPs and 2 Eps and its tough on them because these dogs even when very old are active and need lots of exercise.

My wife would be able to co-miserate with yours, trust me.

Be safe pay attention to your surroundings and come back in one piece.

I would suggest if you havent that you crate train the dog and give your wife some breaks if shes worn out by the dog. Just make sure she doesnt keep the dog in the crate all the time. eveni put my young dogs in cragtes when they start tearing around the house and getting on my nerves.

Good luck I wish I lived near there I would go get her and run her for your wife.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Joe,

I don't have any pointer books, but I've seen some good ones in the the base library at various bases. Be sure to check your library at Minot when you get back.

I did read a really good pointer one last spring. I'll get the title. PM me your address over there...I'll send it if I can find it. Now would be a great time for you to be reading on on the subject.

Mike


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## deerslayer80 (Mar 27, 2007)

Bobm and Mike,

Thank you very much for the advice. I've been trying to read up on tips and techniques for training in my spare time. That's all I can think about is getting back to my wife and dog. I miss that dog like it's a kid of mine. I just wish my ol' lady could get a break every now and then. I'll tell her about the crate idea. I'm sure the dog still needs some discipline while I'm gone. I'm just scared to see how spoiled she's gotten by staying with my wife these past months.

Here's a question: Over a span of six months, what should I expect when I come home to a dog that hasn't seen me in a long time? I know she bonded with me prior to leaving. Will I have to rebond with her again?

Joe


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## deerslayer80 (Mar 27, 2007)

Here's a pic for gee wiz...

She doesn't shy away from anything, and she loves the snow.

How much bigger can I expect her to get? In this picture she's about 11 months and 44lbs.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

not much bigger,maybe about 10 lbs heavier, she will muscle up as she ages until about 2 1/2-3 years of age.

the dog will bond with you in days or less dont worry about it.

I take rescue dogs with all kinds of problems and fix them and they bond in a short time.
Your dog will be fine.

Get a big crate and ask the wife to put her in there when shes needs a break but not too much, my wife would leave them in there all day :roll: .

Your dog will be fine.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

ds80, a book you might consider is " The Burnt Creek Method of Dog Training" by Jim Marti.

It is in the 59th printing as of 10/2020.
Published by:
Burnt Creek Press
PO Box 123
Baldwin ND 58521-0123


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

something im beggining to find more and more. practice doesnt make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. my first dog is very stubborn. i got her when i was just a kid, and i worked with her alot. alot more than my current dog. however, i didnt know what i was doing. i thought the more i worked with her the better she would get, but all i did was frustrate both of us. she turned out ok, and has alot of birds to her credit, but its mostly because of her instinct, and intelligence, not training. the dog i have now handles very well, and she isnt as intelligent, nor does she have as much training, but she is a much better hunter because i learned alot from the other dog, and trained her correctly.


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