# Governor sets waterfowl limit



## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

Press release for Governors office today stated that he is going set the nonresident cap at 30,000 hunters.


----------



## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

After this entire debate, yah you guys influenced me.

*I was hoping for 22,000 and a quick phone call. *

This is not good. I fear many of these 30,000 will now hunt even longer in ND this fall. Many may feel that they may not get to hunt next year - caps, increase in cost, drought - so why not stay as long as they can.

Even though I (and my ND hunting buddies) have been lightly impacted by the increase in hunter numbers over the past few years, I feel this year may be out of control.

The backlash will bring even more resentment to NRs in the future, ND landowner-sportsman relations strained, etc...

*Hoeven had an excellent chance to calm the waters before the storm. He has failed all. *


----------



## cancarver (Apr 6, 2002)

WOW! I will agree with you PH. I think the backlash and resentment towards NR's will be felt. I too could have lived with 22,000, would have been happy with 25,000 but this is almost a slap in the face to alot of residents, and I hope NR don't get blamed or feel the effects in the coffee shop or in the field. I think the blame should be put on guides and their influence on the Gov.

Is hildebrand elected or appointed by the Gov. Must be some fallout between them. Just wait guides will be a getting an allotment of lics next


----------



## Dr. Bob (Mar 3, 2002)

Not Good uke:


----------



## tmorrie (Apr 1, 2002)

Just heard the same thing on 790 AM. I don't think we need to become SD like with a limit of 4500, but 30K, why even bother with a limit? A number between 18-22K would be a much better solution to keep all sides happier. With many of the areas of the state being dry, this years 30K will make the hunting pressure seem even higher than last year.

Looked on the http://www.governor.state.nd.us/media/ site but no official update on this subject, so I'm not sure if any new zones and zone limits have been set.

All the information that the NDGF Survey put out this spring stated that a cap this high would lead to very unsatisfied resident hunters. I knew it would be trouble when so much of the political and business development talk I've heard lately is relying heavily on increasing ND tourism.

Looks like Hoeven is basically putting any major decision off until the legislature can look at the advisory boards data next year. So instead of the NDGF, resident hunters, businesses that rely on total hunter numbers, etc. that follow and are well educated on this topic making the decision, we'll now have politicians making the decision.

It seems like if this trend keeps up many of the residents that value the excellent hunting as a big part of the reason they are willing to make far less money here will say why not move and just come back every year for a couple weeks and have the best of both.


----------



## muzzy (Mar 21, 2002)

Here is the press release, should have posted it right away.

NEWS 
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE 
June 28, 2002

Contact: Kathy Ibach or Don Canton 
(701) 328-2200

HOEVEN ANNOUNCES GUIDELINES FOR 2002 WATERFOWL SEASON

BISMARCK, N.D. - Gov. John Hoeven today directed the North Dakota Game and Fish Department this year to issue no more than 30,000 non-resident waterfowl hunting licenses, seek approval from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to open the season one week early for resident hunters only and enforce the state's hunting zones to disperse hunting more effectively throughout the state. The decision came after consultation with Game and Fish Department Director Dean Hildebrand. The Game and Fish Advisory board recently split four to four on a decision to limit non-resident hunters.

"This is an important step to respond to resident hunters' concerns about hunting pressures, while still respecting the interests of landowners, our rural communities and others," Hoeven said. "We need to get people working together."

The decision to hold non-resident hunters to 30,000 is based on last year's non-resident hunter numbers, which slightly exceeded 30,000, and this year's count of breeding waterfowl, which is higher than both last year's and the historical average. The decision to open the season one week early was based on a desire to reserve the opening week for North Dakota resident hunters. It will also allow them expanded opportunity to hunt wood duck and teal.

Enforcement of the zoning restrictions is intended to move hunters from areas that experience too much hunting pressure to areas that could benefit from more hunting activity. The state has three zones, and Zone 3, which encompasses much of the central and western portion of the state, has been a "free" zone. That means a license valid in either Zone 1 or Zone 2 has enabled the bearer to hunt in Zone 3 as well during the licensure period. Under the new plan, Zone 3 will no longer be a free zone and non-resident hunters will have to stay in the zone they select.

"We need to take these steps for the 2002 season, but additionally, we need to continue our efforts to increase access," Hoeven said. "It is important that we work with the Legislature to develop innovative management tools to build the hunting experience in our state, now and in the future."


----------



## tmorrie (Apr 1, 2002)

Thanks for the clarification Muzzy. We'll see what the USFWS comes back with on the request to open the season one week early for resident hunters only and enforce the state's hunting zones to disperse hunting more effectively throughout the state.


----------



## Dr. Bob (Mar 3, 2002)

That zone 3 business is a CROCK. That will do nothing to help the situation!

I think the early opener for residents only is a good plan. I hope it passes.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

If you want to let Gov. Hoeven know how you feel ( you know I will )...

Here's his contact information. When he screwed up the pheasant opener....people really let him know it!!! Let's do the same for the waterfowl opener!!!

Governor's Office
Dept. 101
600 E. Boulevard Ave.
Bismarck, ND 58505-0001

(701) 328-2200 [Phone]
(701) 328-2205 [Fax]

1-800-366-6888 [TTY-Relay ND]
1-800-366-6889 [TTY-Relay ND - Voice]

[email protected]


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

This is very disappointing.He could have picked a lower number and kept res. and most non-res happy.
Cancarver....the director is appointed by the governor...kind of ties his hands doesn't it?


----------



## NDJ (Jun 11, 2002)

I wonder where he's getting his advise...does he believe if he says there's a cap(which is not really a cap), the residents will hush up on this issue???

Is this set in stone or does the G&F have a final say so??? I guess he needs another wake-up call from the resident sportsmen


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I would say this is it.He has made the final decision.He has to sign it.This mornings paper says the GNF will start selling licenses next week.They can only be obtained over the phone,internet or in person.This is the only way they can keep track of how many there are.No more selling at stores and court houses.


----------



## tealtamer (Jun 29, 2002)

Ok guys Im from Iowa and this will be my 4th season hunting at age 31 (late bloomer) anyway ive been to ND twice and I have never had any problems with the locals ,they were all very nice and willing to let us hunt (we freelanced) my question is are we hated by the local hunters in ND? The reason we go is because its somewhere different and we were treated nicely so we go back ,but id hate to make to many enemies by just hunting there ,could you let me know your opinions? ,thanks TT , and any info on Robinson ND would be appreciated :beer:


----------



## redlabel (Mar 7, 2002)

Sunday and Monday I will be near Robinson cultivating corn so I can gather some information if you would like.


----------



## tealtamer (Jun 29, 2002)

that would be great ,thanks a bunch ,TT


----------



## cancarver (Apr 6, 2002)

I just read on another page that the early week he is aking for will be residents only. is there any truth to that? I have hunted opeing weekend every year but have thought about switching to the calendar arrival of cannasbacks. I also see zones will be restricted, thats the one thing I didn't want, and keeping only three zones how is that going to help? How come some of you regulars haven't posted with your feelings? I don't think anyone won out except for the guides.

If hildebrand is appointed the old gov must of gotten some politcal preesure from somewhere to go beyond.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Cancarver...the press release above clearly says if the season is opened a week earlier it will be for residents only.I believe it will be for ducks only and not geese,which will open on the traditional opener.There has always been 3 zones.The difference being a license in zone 1 or 2 was also good for 3.That will not be the case this year.
I said on another thread that he gave in.I think he should have settled closer to what the GNF wanted,but he is strictly pro business.BUT at least there is now the precedence of a cap for the next legis.
Tealtamer...Come on out and hunt...we do not dislike non-res.I hunt with non-res all the time as do most of us.


----------



## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

I agree that this "cap" isn't really going to do anything. The whole idea behind the cap was to limit the corporate outfitters and stop the leasing and buying of hunting land by NR's. This cap isn't going to do that. Hoeven did what I thought he'd do...sit on the fence and not risk backlash. I suppose he thinks most folks will see that he set a cap, and not even really look at the number part of it. I think he's going to get more than a couple letters to the contrary. Not to mention a lack of support from the state's sportsman next election.

On the bright side, and yes I think there is one (even if it's small)...at least numbers will not increase thise year. We were looking at a 5-7,000 jump in numbers this year if things kept going on track. Imagine how much worse things could have continued to get. Another year or two of increasing hunter #'s would have only made a cap of 18-22,000 all the more difficult to get. Think how hard it would've been to get a cap if NR's hit 40,000. At least this gives us a starting point. Maybe it was foolish to think we could resolve this so easily...most issues of this magnitude take years and several strides to accomplish (not to say there hasn't been a lot of people working very hard for years on this). Although this is probably not a stride, it is at least a step in the right direction. Now we can work from here to get what is needed.


----------



## Guest (Jul 1, 2002)

What's the point? Typical political based decision, indented to satisfy everyone, resulting in satisfying no one. I do think ya'll underestimated the influence of the service industry in your state. From my perspective they want nr hunters, and were told first hand by a few hotel owners that they put pressure on the governor. In the end, who did you think he would listen to? A few loud hunters or an industry the directly represents the second largest industry in your state. It's clear to me why he decided the way he did. The next great dry spell is coming and that will naturally keep nr's away.


----------



## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

This really stinks. I wonder what all the meetings were for if they weren't going to change some things. Fine I agree that limits are the first step and that 30k is a place to start, but I still don't understand if there were so many resident hunters upset about access/crowding then why not set the limits lower. On top of it they are talking about us going in a week earlier and shooting out the ducks. It could be three or four weeks before we get birds coming down to replace the locals we shoot out. Add in a few weeks of early season Canada hunting and you are going to have a lot of birds pushed out of the state by opening weekend of waterfowl. Let's say something like this happens: I'm from Iowa planning a trip, now do I take a gamble and come up the first few weekends of Oct. or do you try to time the migration later in the month?? Well time will tell but we are still going to keep on this. Full Force ????? stop with comments like you are so in tune with everything going on here. The next great drought?? Sure looks like it just ask folks from DL to Ada. A few loud hunters????? :-?


----------



## Guest (Jul 1, 2002)

You're right Eric, I should know better than offer my opinions on this page. I should just mind my own business right. :eyeroll:


----------



## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

You can post your opinions all you want, but I just get tired of the sarcasm especially for free. :wink:


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

FF5 is right when he points out the power of the tourism industry. And I have a hard time understanding if Hoeven sees the resident hunters side at all?

3 prime examples:

1)a business owner friend writes the governor....Hoeven writes back within the hour.

2)a landowner friend of ours writes the governor....Hoeven writes back the same day.

3)resident hunter emails the governor....3 days later his secretary or assistant rights back saying "thanks".

I know the first two examples to be true, and in many emails I've never gotten an original word from Hoeven. I think our battles are down the road when we get a governor that can see the forest through the trees without mistaking the leaves for dollar signs.

I can say that from the attendance at the meetings, we're not getting enough guys involved in the state. We're losing ground up here no doubt about it.


----------



## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

FF5, You forget that there's a lot more hunters upset than there are hotel owners. If NR's could vote, then yes things would be different. Hoeven has to answer to his constiuents, which hunters happen to be a part of. Those few hotel owners aren't going to be able to supply enough votes to keep him office come next election if he doesn't make the majority happy.


----------



## Guest (Jul 2, 2002)

Matt, I'm not just talking about hotel owners. I'm talking about the entire service industry with in your state. All of which directly or indirectly are benefited by nonresident hunters. Look, I'm not naive enough to every suggest that the non-resident pumps more into the local economy than does the resident, that's a poor argument. Yet, compare the "weight" of correspondence to your governor from a business owner (hotel, bar, gas station, restaurant, grocery store) saying I want non-residents to come and hunt versus a resident hunter say cap or restrict. With that in mind it's easier to understand.

I'm very much for preserving the quality of hunting in North Dakota. What your governor has done is pitiful. A cap should be the last step, as I've stated before. Other things can be done.

Anyway, have a great weekend. I'm out the door, going up to my cabin north of Grand Rapids. Hope to be fishing for muskie tonight on Winnie, with a big chew in my lower lip and an ice cold coor's light by my side, enjoy. :beer:


----------



## Dean Nelson (Mar 3, 2002)

Well boys lets just say I have a good line to the governor and know for a fact that we scared the hell out of him with the whole pheasant thing. So what we need to do is raise hell to the point where he will do what ever we want just to get us to shut up.

One other thing with the extra week there is no guarantee that the Feds will let us have it. It seems to me he did this thinking we would be happy with it and if it doesn't happen he could say he tried.


----------



## cancarver (Apr 6, 2002)

not agreeing with what the gov neccasrily did but ND website has employment information, based on quick search their are over 150,000 jobs that can be impacted by #'s hunters that doesn't include landowers who lease their land, while some will not agree how much impacted nr's have, business owners must think the bonus business is good.

Now 150,000 people plus the owners of all these facilities and the coropate workforce of some of them, that is a big constistuent of potential voters and campain $$$ in the next election, vs (based on NDSA #'s; 66% in favor of limits of 70,000 hunters; is 46,000 constiuents that he has ****** off with this decsion, again I would be willing to bet that number of concerned resident sportsman is way lower than 46,000. So he made a politcal decision based on what he thought was best for the state.

so if the concern from resident sportsman was land access and quality of hunting, and the culprit was amount of leased land, you needed to limit guides and outfitters and large leases to make a change. who is the opposite consituent? only guides and a some farmers. as a common sense approach, what would the gov have done then. 50,000 upset sportsmen, 20,000(just a quess) upset land owners and guides.

hey you got limits and in a few years you will see the effects of it, as alot of you have said we are heading in the direction of commercialtion, well with limits of 30,000 you have effectively halted it, there is no reason why it should get worse. Beleive it or not this little decsion has effected me, yeah I got my license but I am not happy! I can't freely roam the state where the ducks are depending on weather +migration. I had to choose yesterday, 4 months ahead of time, where the ducks might be and when. by picking my dates and zone. Goal is perserve quality of hunting in ND, well my quality of hunt in ND just went down.


----------



## cancarver (Apr 6, 2002)

chris, to add to your points about letters to Hoeven,

Both my brother and I got responses back same day, but from an assistant, so that fits in with the priority of the govs.


----------



## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

CC:

A quick rebuttal to your #s: "Now 150,000 people plus the owners of all these facilities and the coropate workforce of some of them, that is a big constistuent of potential voters and campain $$$ in the next election, vs (based on NDSA #'s; 66% in favor of limits of 70,000 hunters; is 46,000 constiuents that he has ****** off with this decsion, again I would be willing to bet that number of concerned resident sportsman is way lower than 46,000. So he made a politcal decision based on what he thought was best for the state."

The Census Bureau http://censtats.census.gov/data/ND/04038.pdf#page=3 details 316,632 employed in the 2000 North Dakotan civilian work force. Of this employment total, the service occupation equals 52,942 or 16.7% of the work force. Further stated, the breakdown by industry does not bear your stated 150,000 jobs as retail trade = 40,154 or 12.7% and arts, entertainment, recreation, accommodation and food services = 25,813 or 8.2%. In essence, you have drastically overstated this number by 2 or 3 times.

The bottom line, you don't vote in the state nor do I. But the most important point that you did not illustrate, the 46,000 (your number) resident sportspeople that were impacted by this decision have spouses, children, relatives, and friends that may be heavily influenced by their spoken word and may be reflected in their voting next election.


----------



## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Good points Bioman. I thought those numbers seemed strange because I would think that with Fargo/Grand Forks most of the jobs aren't impacted by hunting at all. There is the service industry but I don't think that a lot of NR hunters drive to fargo/gf for dinner at Timberlodge, etc. CC your numbers seem awfully high. Espcially with Fargo/gf making up over what 30% of the states population. Keep in mind that while Hoeven made small town cafe owners/motel owners happy he ****** off a lot people in Fargo that will come back to bite him......


----------



## tmorrie (Apr 1, 2002)

I just reviewed the new regulations and the new zone regulations: http://www.state.nd.us/gnf/hunting/nonr ... wfowl.html

The new zone restrictions are not even worth having the way they are currently setup.

According to the NDGF most recent data in the North Dakota Outdoors publication, the "average" Nonresident waterfowl hunter in North Dakota spends just over four days a year in the field. By continuing to allow the 7 day statewide license, the "average" Nonresident while here has the same rights as a resident waterfowl hunter.

Why isn't there a specific limit for each zone? I assume it's because the last minute decision Hoeven made for this years regulations made it impossible for the NDGF to add the capability of specific zone limits to its on-line and manual licensing processes? Setting a limit for each zone would be nice so that resident and Nonresident hunters could plan accordingly if they want to stay away from zones with heavier hunting pressure.

A good PR move Hoeven and the NDGF could make would be to publish weekly updated totals for each zone and license type as we get closer to the season.

I sent these opinions to both the Governor and Dean Hildebrand.


----------



## cancarver (Apr 6, 2002)

bioman, I used some online database thing located here;
http://www.state.nd.us/jsnd/bin/lmidata ... Employment
its the nonfarm wage salary and employment. This may be wrong I just added up general merchandise, general food, eating and drinking, hotels and other lodging, retail trade, and services, whether or not its 50,000 or 150,000 they have spouses and family members too and they rely on that income. When it come down to it and a family of four goes to vote this fall, two are legal to vote, father and son hunt, wife and daughter work in a business's that derprive some income from tourism. how will they vote, does a cap mean so much to father and son they will vote againsn't hoeven, and risk the wife and daughters income?

We all love to hunt, but what affords us the ability to hunt are jobs, to pay for dekes, guns, realible trucks we have.

I think I would jeperdoze land access/quailty of hunts for having income and ability to pay for gas and shells.

let me ask everyone this,

next election for Gov,

canidaite one---caves in to commerical interests, doesn't apporve a cap and but stands for everything else you want out of a GOV

canidate two, liar cheat, will raise taxes, and takes a political stance against everything you beleive in, but will create caps, and limit guides and large leases.

how do you vote?

my point is most americans aren't one issue voters, There are many issues that effect households and their vote, taxes, jobs, schools. do any of these outweigh NR Caps, maybe to some of you but can you really say I will let my taxes get raised have less money for my kids schools, just so I can have more land to hunt?

I would be willing to bet Hoeven's team crunched alot numbers, that if he did set these limits how much many voters would he lose if he went with 22,000 vs 30,000. and by going with 30,000 he said to the some of the resident sportsman, you are not going to effect me politcally so I am going with 30,000.

He also looked at a dying state that second biggest income in toursim, do think that he will make 10,000-50,000 hunters happy and jepordize that income.


----------



## cancarver (Apr 6, 2002)

sorry for the double post but it was acting weird, those numbers are statewide in the database, I know I stop in Fargo twice each trip, for gas, and food, even walmart.

what about cenex, they are owned by farmers right? or is that not a co-op, well anyway, there are co-ops gas stations all over, maybe they will like the bonus money from NR's either way no matter what side, they all have freinds and family that could be impated as well


----------



## Dean Nelson (Mar 3, 2002)

It all moot when the next drought comes around. Most hotels are over extended now and when they lose the hunter they have with or without a cap they will go **** up. The guides numbers will thin out dramatically with only a few remaining. With them gone there will be vary little to oppose a much lower cap.


----------



## Drakekiller (Apr 3, 2002)

It is interesting on how the Gov. keeps pointing out the Adv. Board vote that was split 4 to 4.I have almost completed going through all the surveys that were filled out for the last round of Adv. board meetings.I still have a few Disricts internet response to finish.What I can tell you now is that it should have been a vote of 6 t0 2 infavor of Caps! Dist. 1 and 2 over 70% in both in favor of caps. Devils L. and Mott only two that the surveys show a no cap vote. When I have it all complete I will post.PS listen to radio 790 Friday Mark M. will be hosting should be good,bad for the Gov.


----------



## tmorrie (Apr 1, 2002)

The latest update on the NDGF site:

"The tentative season opener is scheduled for Sept. 28. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service *might* authorize an early duck opener of Sept. 21. If this option is available, it will likely be for North Dakota residents only - nonresidents would be allowed to start hunting Sept. 28. A decision on the early duck opener is expected after Aug. 1."


----------



## Fetch (Mar 1, 2002)

> canidaite one---caves in to commerical interests, doesn't apporve a cap and but stands for everything else you want out of a GOV
> 
> canidate two, liar cheat, will raise taxes, and takes a political stance against everything you beleive in, but will create caps, and limit guides and large leases.


Is this the only kind of BS / options & SPIN you can give to your question ??? Then you donot know NoDakers very well :roll:


----------



## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

:sniper: Come'on Fetch tell us what you really think :withstupid:


----------

