# Wolves in ND



## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

Word is a few wolves have been seen and confirmed up in the grano area. Apparantly someone had also reported seeing some huge tracks in that area this winter although nothing was confirmed.

I for one hope these animals aren't going to start making ND home. That's all we need...mountain lions and wolves, whats next, the buffalo going to start roaming again?

I know wolves have traveled through before and been seen. But it sounds as though this little pack might be making territory, and im my humble opinion that's not a good thing.


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## Trapper62 (Mar 3, 2003)

Talk to anyone in the Turtle Mountains, they are already established and have been here for a while now!


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## Ryan (Apr 29, 2005)

We got cougars here in Southern Alberta. one was found a few years back inside a cow feeder.


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## Pluckem (Dec 26, 2002)

These animals were here much longer than we have. We are the reason for them leaving (or dying). Let them come, makes this state that much better. If you dont want to share the outdoors with them than dont go outdoors. Move to a big city. my .02


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

I wouldn't mind seein a few around, I found some cat tracks about 10 years ago here in NW Nodak, followed them for a couple of miles but came up with nothing. The tracks looked to be a little small for a cougar so I'm guessing it was a lynx or bobcat, the adrenalin was definitely pumping while tracking him. Buddy of mine at work seen a wolf about 3 years ago, he said it was quite a sight.


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## Roughrider (Apr 12, 2005)

Here in Northeastern Nodak we have had reports of wolves for a number of years in the Pembina Hills. I have even heard there is a pack north of Adams. If they are not causing huge problems I say let them stay, maybe they will thin out the coyotes.


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## Draker16 (Nov 23, 2004)

let em stay like pluckem stated earlier they were here first they belong here naturally so let em be.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

Pluckem said:


> These animals were here much longer than we have. We are the reason for them leaving (or dying). Let them come, makes this state that much better. If you dont want to share the outdoors with them than dont go outdoors. Move to a big city. my .02


Exactly... :beer:


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Sasha and Abby said:


> Pluckem said:
> 
> 
> > These animals were here much longer than we have. We are the reason for them leaving (or dying). Let them come, makes this state that much better. If you dont want to share the outdoors with them than dont go outdoors. Move to a big city. my .02
> ...


YEP!


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Wish they would come around here and eat some of our excess deer - like the two that almost ended up on my car hood last night! There was an unconfirmed wolf sighting (by a guy from northern Minn. who knows and has seen many wolves) near Bismarck last fall on the deer opener, and our "resident" cougar who has been seen on and off around for a year and a half, was seen again by a very reliable witness south of Sterling about 2 months ago. We assume it's the same one?? I keep looking, but no luck yet! Kind of neat having some around. Hope they behave themselves. Plenty of game for us all...


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

It's not the game i'm concerened about. It's the kids. Call me a prude, but this crap is kewl until some kid ends up a cougar or wolves dinner. Buffalo were native to this land too, you guys want them running around? Well it appears i'm the minority on this topic, so I'll chime out now on this one. Thanks for the input.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I see your point but how many kids have been attacked by wolves?? They might pick off farm dogs, but I am not aware of any kids eaten even in northern Minn where there are a lot of wolves doing their wolfish thing. Cougars?? The odd person gets picked off out west where there is a much higher concentration of humans living in close proximity to too many protected unafraid lions. But the odds of a kid getting picked off by a mt. lion anywhere is astronomically small compared to the kid getting run over by a car or by getting nabbed by a human predator! I'll take the odd lion around any day! 
As I mentioned, our "resident" lion here has been seen multiple times over the past 1 1/2 years yet there has not been not a single instance of an attack on farm animals, dogs, kids, or anything else. (one was seen looking in a local dog trainer's bird pen, but never even sniffed at the 50 plus dogs around in open pens, some running through the yard.) I suppose that could change if we had a hard winter that decimated the deer population, but why not cross that bridge when and if we come to it? 
Don't get me wrong - I wouldn't go out of my way to try establish a wolf or lion population in ND, but a few here and there are kind of neat to have as long as they mind their own business and don't cause any harm, in my lowly opinion.


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## Burly1 (Sep 20, 2003)

The increase in the lion (and wolf) population is directly due to the huge deer population that we are seeing at present. I really would like to see these large predators become permanent residents once aqain, but I am concerned that when the deer population finally crashes (Not if. When.) that they will become a problem. With our ever expanding urban areas, an attack on a human being could happen, and the farmer/ranchers are certain to see some depredation of livestock. I guess it's the old double-edged sword scenario. Burl


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## Ryan (Apr 29, 2005)

fishhook said:


> It's not the game i'm concerened about. It's the kids. Call me a prude, but this crap is kewl until some kid ends up a cougar or wolves dinner. Buffalo were native to this land too, you guys want them running around? Well it appears i'm the minority on this topic, so I'll chime out now on this one. Thanks for the input.


I wouldnt be too worried. I cannot see them having a need to come into town if there are plenty of deer. Unless people leave ther garbage out. As for farms just dont let the kids go out at night and have a farm dog. YOu know there are dogs out there bred specificaly to protect children from cougars but any large breed will do.

I would be more worried aobut the wolves. Out bird hunting or deer hunting one could attack you or your dog.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

I don't agree. May be a small problem now. But ask the residents of Montana, MN, and WI. Wolves are documented as far south as Milwaukee. They create a lot of problems. They were eradicated for a reason. Might as well stop spraying for mosquitoes and trapping rats. Let all of God's creature run free! After all, "they were here first " uke:

I know I am gonna hear on this one...oh well!


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Wolves would be excellent for increasing duck production! :beer:


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Taddy, rats weren't here first - the Norway Rats were transported in the holds of early ships and have caused nothing but trouble all over the world wherever humans inadvertently transported them. 
Matt - duck production - According to Delta Waterfowl, coyotes are not significant in terms of duck production (unlike foxes, skunks, raccoons, their artificially high numbers a byproduct of previous and current human activity!) So doubt that a few wolves would have ANY significant impact on duck production. 
So the culprit in each of your posts are humans! Hard to kill them off, though! Ha! Don't want to change the subject, but I'm for massive global birth control!! Before the human animal irreveribly screws up the whole planet, assuming he hasn't already. (Bet I'll stir up the fire with that one! Ha! This website has been too quiet lately, anyway! Ha!)


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

But you are indirectly correct, Matt, putting your sarcasm aside. If there were enough wolves (probably never would be) to kill off most of the foxes and raccoons, they probably would increase duck production by eliminating/reducing a real duck production problem.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Huntnfishnhabitathugger,

You missed the my point...If we argue that everything that came before us or all living things deserve to live, our world would be even more screwed up! Wolves are bad news, IMO. I view them as a nuisance as I do rats, feral cats, etc. Got to draw the line somewhere!



> but a few here and there are kind of neat to have as long as they mind their own business and don't cause any harm


Don't you think that is how the idiots in MN and WI thought too. Once you introduce any legislation to reintroduce/protect these critters, it is incredibly difficult to take any measures after that.

"Don't cause any harm?" To who? You? or the rancher with sheep and cattle? BAD NEWS!

I see this one will have to be moved to HOT Topics :lol:


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## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

Taddy:



> But ask the residents of Montana, MN, and WI.


 Do you have some polling data or any facts to share? If not, your statement is mere conjecture and blatantly ignorant. Wolves were eradicated because market hunters were in full force.

On the topic of being injured or killed by a mountain lion the chances are infinitesimal.

Some facts...

There have been only 13 fatal mountain lion attacks in all of North America in the last 100 years. Eleven of the fatal attacks occurred in western states and provinces where hunting of lions is allowed.

Exactly three people have been tragically killed by mountain lions in Colorado in recorded history. The first was in Idaho Springs, the second in Rocky Mountain National Park in 1997, and the third in Poudre Canyon in 1999. That's a grand total of three people out of ~4.5 million Coloradoans.

According to the State of Colorado's Vital Statistics in 2002, the chances of dying of a heart attack or stroke are 1 in 500, of cancer are 1 in 750, in a car wreck are 1 in 7,500, of suicide are 1 in 7,500, of drugs/alcohol are 1 in 10,000, with a gun (murder or accidental) are 1 in 10,000. The chances of dying of a work-related injury are 1 in 50,000.


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## Pluckem (Dec 26, 2002)

I think it was close to 2 years ago that there was a cougar spotted a couple hundred yards from my house. A correctional officer spotted one walking along the high fence on the north side of the state pen. It walked down into a small coulie before anyone else saw it. There has been sheep in the pasture there for around 10 years and I dont think it touched them. I thought it was pretty awesome to think one was in my backyard.


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## Matt Jones (Mar 6, 2002)

Huntnfishnhabitathugger, I wasn't being sarcastic. IMO coyotes help increase duck production also. One of the reasons we have such a big problem in regards to skunks and raccoons is that we don't have any large predators to control them...not since the prairie wolf became extinct. :roll:

Obviously, I don't think we will ever see enough wolves in ND to make much of an impact but in theory it would pay huge dividends. There was a study that was done on coyotes in regards to duck production and you'd be suprised by how much they can increase success by eliminating foxes, skunks, raccoons, and other small predators. They may nab the occasional duck but they're not a focus for them like they are for other species.


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

Some of you guys sound like PETA members. Our ancestors eradicated wolves for a reason - they're the top of our predators. Many of you think it's cool they're back - just so long as they're not in your backyard. Sounds alot like urban mentality.
If you see one, remember thew three s's, shoot shovel and shut up, or maybe in case the USFWS was an implant in it, shoot, tie it to a log, and float it down the river. The government will spents tens of thousands on shooting investigations.
The wolf reintroductions is the biggest mistake in wildlife management this century.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Sorry Matt. I appologize!! - I misunderstood you 100%. Some days I'm just dumb - other days I'm even dumber! Must be one of my dumber days!
MOB - a year ago there was a dead deer in my back yard (farmstead) that had been killed than dragged 60 yards further into the bush and eaten. Watched the ants eating the leftovers all summer, and later in the fall when not much remained but bones noted a fracture/dislocation of C1-2 pretty suspicious of a Mt. Lion, (what else - any ideas anyone??) although I'm sure not a deer forensic pathologist! The only thing that upset us was that (if this was in fact a mountain lion-unproveable!) he must have spent a few days within 100 yards of the house and we weren't fortunate enough to see him, much less get his mug shot. If he kills and eats me some day, what the hell?? Could go a worse way! But he better leave my dogs and wife alone! Ha! Actually my wife trains for marathons on the roads around here, and carries pepper spray when she remembers it , although she's much more likely to use it against human varmints or possibly stray dogs than wolves or lions.
Interesting that all my neighbors, cattlemen and sheepmen and all, seem to have the same thoughts as I do. Anyone who does the 3-S thing on "our" lion would get reported and prosecuted. Would be given a fair neighborhood trial, then hung from my deer stand! Ha! Just partly kidding!! - Our neighborhood watch though, includes watching for lion poachers! 
I sure have nothing against hunting and harvesting mountain lions or wolves where populations warrant it. In fact I'd love to do it if I were 20 -30 years younger and could afford it! But to just plink one for the wrong reasons is not justified, again in my lowly opinion.


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## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

Didn't game and fish in MN just shoot a mountain lion by Georgetown? I believe that one got into some farm yards. As for me, I am all for them. A natural predator to fox and coyotes, sounds good to me. We are infested with them anyways!


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## Nodak Duke (Oct 14, 2003)

Wolves serve a wonderful purpose of culling out the weak/old deer, which there are too many of in the first place. As far as wolves being a menace to humans by means of going after children that is for the most part a falicy that the old west has built many to believe. -I don't think that there has been a wolf related human fatality in the past 80 years in the United States. I personally think that they are great as long as they are managed correctly.


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## dunkonu (Apr 27, 2004)

Gee this would be a great idea. Let the wolves stay so that in ten years we have the same problems that Montana does, and I know MT isn't the only state. Apparently those off you that think letting them establish themselves here is a good idea don't realize the problem that they are becoming in MT. Why did the oldtimers get rid of these animals in the first place, because they were a real problem. You think that they will help out on the deer population, it will be more than that. I have been going elk hunting in MT for many years know and the wolves are eliminating herds of elk, so I see this as a problem. Once they have ran off and killed the elk then they start feeding on livestock. 
I just have a hard time when someone who says they are an outdoorsmen can think that the addtion of wolves are a good thing. Ecspecially when you can't control them. I just hope I never see one


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

Bioman,

Check out this long and detailed 108 page paper that shares facts from both sides. Look how complaints have increased.

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/NEPA/WIwolf/ ... Wisconsin'

On a side note, I have lived there and heard the personal complaints and concerns over the wolf reintroduction.


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## Ripline (Jan 10, 2003)

Wolves suck!!!
I have property in the UP of Michigan and the wolves are plentyfull. A direct correlation exists between the wolf population and the sgnificantly reduced deer population. 
The MI DNR finally is eadicating nuisance wolves because a few of the moose they release have been predated.
The locals use the sss mentality. Shoot, shovel, shutup!!
A e-collar was found floating in one of the rivers in a milk jug to throw the DNR off.
They came back way too fast.


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## zettler (Sep 7, 2002)

Here is a link to a story about how wolves have been spotted in central ND Wolves Story in ND


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

> Why did the oldtimers get rid of these animals in the first place, because they were a real problem


There are a lot of species that have been "gotten rid of"........doesn't make it the right thing to do. Buffalo were almost wiped out, Giant Canada geese were almost wiped out. Does that mean they shouldn't have been brought back???


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

> The wolf reintroductions is the biggest mistake in wildlife management this century.


Yellowstone Park had a growing problem with deforestation and bank erosion. The introduction of wolves reversed that trend by thinning the elk. Actually eliminating all large preditors has a negative impact on the enviroment. Coyotes in central ND have a very benifical role for game birds and for farmers too, as long as they leave the livestock alone.


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

> as long as they leave the livestock alone.


And if they don't and if wolves don't...then what?


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## tail chaser (Sep 24, 2004)

Are we overreacting? We don't even have an established population and we are talking SSS? If it becomes a problem then deal with it. I would like to see some.

TC


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## hunter22375 (May 21, 2005)

I personnaly believe that the return of the wolves may actually make the entire ecosystem of the area more balanced and natural. I know it sound kinda corny....but they serve a valuable role in the chain. Just a thought :wink:


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## taddy1340 (Dec 10, 2004)

> Are we overreacting? We don't even have an established population and we are talking SSS? If it becomes a problem then deal with it. I would like to see some.


I am only saying that if they are on thier way back, measures need to be taken now to address the problems they may cause. If those steps aren't taken now, it will be much harder down the road. Again, I cite the problems in MN and WI. View the link from my earlier post and that will demonstrate the potential for problems...


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

I wouldn't lie awake all night worrying about getting too many wolves in ND. With our open country even if such a thing happened (highly doubtful!) it would be relatively easy to thin them down again with a controlled season. If depradation occurs, the same thing can be done. The Fedral DOA animal damage guys with their 6 shot 12 guage auto and super cub would trim them down in a hurry in relatively treeless ND. (More cell towers to watch out for than trees!)


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

You guys are blessed to live in a place where this is even a possibility!
Have a nice safe Memorial day weekend and say a prayer for a soldier.


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## jamartinmg2 (Oct 7, 2004)

Would wolves even populate ND in any significant numbers with the exception of the Turtle Mountains anyway? Has Montana had any problems with cattle loss other than around the mountainous areas of the state? It seems to me the areas where they have made a succesful comeback are in fairly heavily forested areas. ND ought to be pretty safe unless they find some way to adapt to the environment. Like the story posted by Zettler, the wolves that have been seen are most likely just passing through. If they did establish themselves and became a problem they would obviously need to be dealt with... but a few passing through the area? I'd like to see one sometime. Hopefully it would be during hunting season when I am well armed! Wolf attacks on humans are virtually unheard of, though, I believe. Maybe one of our resident biologists could chime in on the subject.


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