# Is a liberal duck season necessary or valid?



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

> This fall's duck flight in North Dakota is expected to be down about 40 percent from last year, the state Game and Fish Department says.
> 
> Mike Johnson, a migratory game bird management supervisor, said the prediction is based on a duck brood survey from July that was down 45 percent from last year's record high.
> 
> He said the index is still 77 percent above the average over the past half-century.


I sure hope the Canadian provinces produce what we aren't these days.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

I think it is retarded! But whatever it will make the NR's happy so they can shoot there 6 shovlers. :lol: J/k


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

Goosebuster

Now why did you have to go there. I have to say this liberal season seems to be bs. I mean if numbers are down shouldn't the limits be as well. What morons run the show and set this thing up. I think it is time to get rid of the people who make the rules. Oh, I will also limit the amount of shovelers I shoot, I don't want to offend any body. :withstupid:


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Yeah I just dont understand how they can make the limits that high. I guess we will just have to trust the Biologists.


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## hoosier dhr (Jul 24, 2003)

I dont know how many people are on this web site but would it be possible to ban together and send a patiton to whoever makes the rules!?

Maybe even get with other sites or groups.

Just my thoughts. oke:


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

Guys if you are really interested in waterfowl one should really learn how they use the AHM to set limits.

I agree we have to high a limit, but in reality it is days that affect harvest the most. That is not to say that I would oppose ND setting a more restrictive bag limit as it would reduce the number of birds harvested here but flyway wise it would be insignificant.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I honestly believe that waterfowling has become such a huge industry that there is pressure to keep seasons open and limits high. The amount of revenue lost to many areas with shorter seasons is tremendous. When that happens politics enters the realm of wildlife biology. By December I believe most will know for sure if things have gone terribly wrong. Time will tell.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Nate26,
The duck limits are too high this year (again), but don't let that worry you. You go right ahead and shoot as many shovelers as you can afford :wink:


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

I don't think the six and 60 is sustainable biologically. It is the commercial interests, by way of elected officials, that are breathing down the necks of the waterfowl "professionals" who are making the rules.

On the other hand, I think that the weather certainly limits the number of days people get out in ND. There is very little hunting that occurs after the 30th day of the season. Now if the limits were lowered, it would help. I am not really any happier shooting six birds a day vs. four. I know some of the hardcore killers get off on shooting two more ducks a day, but not me.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

man, i dont want to sound like a jerk, but really


> I think it is retarded!


think about stuff before you say it, you dont know who you may offend when you say something like that :-?


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

GB3 isn't a man of words. He says what's on his mind...period.

Perry is right...for ND, not much action after the first couple weeks. Thank goodness SD is a gian refuge or the population would really get cut.

This is the last season I intend on putting off applying for a SD license.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

GG, You hit nail on the head. There are many politicians in the Southern Duck states that would be in trouble if the seasons were cut. Too many guides and Outfitters all the way down the flyway now that would have there lively hoods threatened if the limits were cut. Remember the drought years ups here...some of you do....many, many resident and non-resident duck and goose hunters sold their guns and accessories and never came back to the sport. That doesn't happen as readily now with the huge interest in hunting and so many profiting off of the resource. It'll be nteresting to see how long it will take the NRs and residents to stop going out for waterfowl in the next major drought cycle.


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

Jhegg.

I am one of those ruthless non residents, If it flys it dies. We aren't very picky. :wink:

Mr. Gilmore

I understand the AHM plan. ANd it is a balancing system each year, But, I believe this is the first really down year since it began. So they need to keep the liberal season to see what results next year. Essentially, thats see if numbers really go down or stay the same. I understand the sytem and with it so new they have to see what effects there rules have. Just seems like a gamble to me.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

It seems to me if they already know the numbers are down why wait till next year to react??? I remember being perturbed at low limits and short seasons because the southern g/o's need more ducks than we do. I suppose we will see that again too.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Nate26,
You had better find yourself a good "Ruth" then - and make sure she can cook. You will need a lot of help with those spoonies


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

jhegg

Anything tastes good with the right amount of marinade and beer. :lol:


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Chris Hustad said:


> This is the last season I intend on putting off applying for a SD license.


I am shocked! This says volumns about what is going on in North Dakota.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I got this from Mad Duck, it was originally passed to me from Cole from the "Duck University":



> Two recent trends provide a biological rationale for believing this gunfire tutorial is sufficient to educate our flocks and even influence the behavior of duck species that are viewed as "intellectually challenged."
> 
> The first involves North Dakota, where the first week of the season gunning is limited to residents. The shooting is fairly light. During the second week, when ducks overnight face thousands of nonresident hunters, the sudden eruption of heavy gunfire causes ducks to flee southward. South Dakota hunters report a major influx of ducks after nonresidents begin blasting away in North Dakota. This escape flight is a new phenomenon that cannot be attributed to normal migration patterns or weather.
> 
> A second involves declining juvenile productivity. Our flocks today contain a higher percentage of adults - birds that have survived at least one gunning season and learned to avoid heavy shooting. Once the shooting begins, the young quickly learn from the adults to retreat to refuges, private sanctuaries and out-of-the-way areas during the day, waiting until nightfall to fly into nearby fields to feed.


Let's face it, the ducks know where they're safe. Safety to waterfowl is the state of South Dakota, the best waterfowling in the states.


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Chris,

Your reference to South Dakota as a giant game refuge is right on. I have never heard it referred to like that. But, that is exactly what it is. It is absolutely astounding that they can get away with offering just 4,000 non-resident licenses since their state knows what it means to have commercial hunting operations. The pheasant hunting scene is highly commercialized. Why not waterfowling?


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

Perry,

It was actually less than 4000 licenses. The actual number was only 3725. It seems radiculous to me......


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

It takes alot less equipment to hunt pheasants and its alot easier to raise roosters in a pen that will fool dumb hunters than it is to raise a duck.

Personally I hope they keep at 4000 NR at least there will be one place left in this country where you can actually go and do some real duck hunting. :eyeroll:


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I feel the same Jed, even if I never go there I hope they keep it at that quota. I want to know that there is aplace where you can truly freelance and hunt the way it was meant to be. Especially for future generations. :beer:


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Well, at least you guys aren't hypocrits. That is very nice of you to not squawk about their quota. Makes it easier to call for a quota in North Dakota.

But, 4000?? That's awfully low.

Do you think that if they doubled it, it would have a corresponding reduction of NRs in North Dakota?


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

Perry,

I have hunted North Dakota Since I was a kid. However, work and family have forced me to move. I am now relegated to non-resident status. I definitely believe if South Dakotas Quota were higher and not the lottery system it presently has many would go to South Dakota that presently hunt NoDak. I mean alot of your Nr hunters came to Nodak just because of Sodak's new Waterfowl lottery. With No time to plan fall trips, nodak is just an easier guaranteed option. Now I know I am a lowly NR hunter and that is like a plague from what I gather from many of thse posts. I feel our stamp money our licenses and our Du funds go to the same place. I am not saying opening the borders some limits are fine set a 30,000 limit for both Dakotas and I belive you would see a wider dispersement of us Nr hunters and the Complaints would go down from both sides of the issue. :eyeroll:


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

There might be a little less pressure, but who really knows. ND is not gonna be the mecca of waterfowling for much longer in my opinion. Last season sucked for duck hunting and I think its gonna be pretty bad again this year.

I still cannot figure out why guys will travel half way across the country to hunt waterfowl and they stop in ND when Canada is another 10 hours. Boggles my mind. I haven't been to Canada for awhile but the people are just as nice, the hunting is better, the scenery is the same and most of the time you never see a hunter in a week much less hear a shot. How cool is that. Man I need to get up there soon.


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

gandergrinder,

I can't speak for everyone, but, for me I hunt there to be with family and friends Canada is not an option.


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

From what i have seen in southern mb and sk duck hunting is gonna stink. GG...how much does it cost to take a gun across the border? Do you need any special permit? How much is a license?

I would love to deer hunt up there as my brother in law has land, but you need a licensed guide. Really sucks. I went with last year and he shot a whitetail that scored 165. It was nice just to go with. Definately a buck i won't soon forget.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

SD would have to open way up b/4 we saw any significantly lower numbers, and then it probably wouldn't be enough lower and both states would be early exit and fly-through. Just look at the new inquires of ND hunting opps on this and other sites every year. "Planning our first ever trip to ND, what.........." Last year, we had waterfowlers from every state, most of the provinces and several foreign countries.

That's why I've said any sticker shock and honk-off factor from the effects of the last session would be temporary. In fact, effective waterfowler numbers remained about constant and uplanders increased.

Used to be the vast majority of our pressure came from MN. With word of mouth, DU articles and the internet, now our pressure comes from all over. For the first time in history, last year less than half of our NR's came from MN. There seems to be no end to the potential increased pressure and I don't think, say, 4k more licenses in SD would mean 4k less hunters in ND.


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## Nodak Duke (Oct 14, 2003)

I say more power to Sodak!!  They have a good thing going and why ruin it? Birds hold up longer and hunters remain happy.

This is the thing that has always boggled my mind as well... Everyone is SO quick to b*tch and moan about North Dakota when SD has been doing the same for years, but to a much greater level. (Newsflash- SD is very much similar to ND in terms of duck numbers, goose numbers, flyway, etc...) I know I would be willing to wait until drawn in SD if it meant I would get the gunning that they have with the small amount of pressure.

SD is my new role model.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Fishook,

Southern Sask is gonna kill a lot of birds this year. Whereas it is usually dry as a bone, there is an awful lot of water there this year. We're talking puddles in fields - drowned out crops type wet. Ducks are gonna love it.

M.


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

I have to agree with Dan B. Increasing the licenses in South Dakota would have very little impact on pressure in North Dakota. The pressure is just to great coming from the rest of the country. That's incredible that there were people from every state in the country hunting in ND last year.


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

I really disagree with that view. South Dakota used to be the place to go for out of staters who wanted combo hunts Ducks and pheasants. Since the change to its present waterfowl licensing process goes along with the time in which the dramatic increase in non resident hunting pressure began to sky rocket in North Dakota. Another thing causing this is the radiculous bag limits 6-7 bird limits are insane. I remember great hunting days when the limits were 3-4 birds. With these high limits on all waterfowl it has brought out weekend warriors who are more concerned with killing than enjoying the whole experience. I think all these things go into the large influx of NR hunters. But, trust me check it out with SD Game and Fish. The time in which the NR hunters became an issue and When South Dakota went to the lottery sytem which they now use. are the following year after it began using the lottery. The non-resident numbers went up in North Dakota. Simply put if you can't go to one place you will go to another. Than you get to Nodak and you find there are pheasants there to. You can still do a combo hunt no applying for a lottery and waiting months to find out you weren't drawn. No plans falling thru it is a better situation for A guy trying to take his kids on a great hunt in place where you can hunt upland as well as ducks and know you can plan it around there school days. It just makes it easier to plan and gives the kids something to look forward to I don't think that is a bad thing. Hey you want to put limits that is fine. But, make those opprotunities available for everyone to experience. I mean if the quota system is great than why don't we make it a auction those with the most bucks win. To me there really is no difference between the two. When NoDak had the 31,000 limit I thought it was fair. 4000 when everyones federal stamps and du money goes to these places is not right. we all should have the availabilty that is fair. Again limits are fine but why not 15,000 why 4000? I really mean this I would bet a great deal of the money spent by Du and Delta and the federal govt. comes from out of state donors and hunters concerned about the resource, but you won't allow them to hunt the lands they are trying to help save. It just seems to me, and I grew up in Nodak, that if the costs for those efoorts were only funded by in staters than you would have a beef, but, if it doesn't than NR hunters deserve a fair right to hunt legally. This argument to about NR hunters is becoming very old and this is what it always comes back to we can argue it any way you want locals deserve benefits for living in there state, but, non residents who come to hunt legally deserve that right as well. If you want to limit the number do so on a reasonable scale and average to the out of state demands. I think 31,000 spread over 60 days is acceptable if you want it lowered than give a reasonable number, 4000 is not reasonable.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Nate,

4,000 under any scenario is probably too low. 30,000 (that was the one and only cap number we ever had) is too many, given our other nr regulatory mechanisms. That number could work some years, but we'd otherwise have to so something more about pressure like further limiting days, do the leg tag thing, close shooting hours some or all days or something else. Way too much premature outmigration even with great water at 30k with the current number or r's and nr format.

Many of us think HPC is the perfect approach. NR hunter numbers are determined as a function of r useage and spring water, thus anticipated reasonable hunting opps. If r numbers continue to slide, nr numbers get an automatic bump. If we stay wet, NR numbers stay relatively high (think it would have been about 21k in '03). When we go dry, we'll need to loose some hunters to manage pressure and competition, and the nr licenses would decrease.

No fixed number works for the ranges of hunting opps we had in late 80's compared to late 90's. And, yes, when we go dry hunter numbers will automatically drop. But under our current commercialization trends, at lest in the short term, we'll never see reasonable pressure under any habitat scenario, wet, normal or dry, without some reasonable limits. And if we're going to do a limit, why not one that adjusts automatically to changing conditions and r usage?


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

Ok that is reasonable but if you would also open up Sodak to that level it would with out a doubt take away some, not all NR pressure. I think 21,000 is a little low, but, that would give common ground to say 25,000. That is fair and I have no problem.

Sodak should use the same measure, spreading out pressure and aloowing for more hunters would spread that pressure. I now live in Arizona, due to work. We have group of hunters to a person granted a small 20 person pool. To a person all say they would go to South Dakota to hunt if the opprotuniy presented itself instead of Nodak. Now granted it is a small number ,but, it would definitely eleviate some pressure to the north if Sodak did give a fair number of NR opprotunities.

Again, I we need fair solutions not iron fisted approaches to solve this issue. If we don't there will be trouble. You know some will say why give to organizations that do there work in a place that I will not get the opprotunity to hunt or enjoy that resource. You are already seeing that with hunter numbers on the steady decline. I think we would do everything we could to ensure we had allies instead of enemies to further our hunting cause.

Just my thoughts


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

South Dakota is the place to be, Im glad they put very low caps on NR waterfowl hunters. Plus the dont have to worry about loosing there hunting right as being a resident. WAY TO GO SODAK!!!


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## Dekes (Aug 21, 2004)

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Duck hunting last fall was excellent in our area. I trust the professionals when it comes to setting seasons and limits. The numbers are significantly down this year compared to last, but if you continue on in the reports the numbers are 77% above the long term average. It'll be another great year!


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

I totally agree. Can't wait to get out and hunt. You can only mess around cleaning guns, tightening decoy line, and getting everything ready for so long until you begin to go crazy.


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## octnov (Aug 21, 2004)

I am an NR hunter who happens to think ND the best place to hunt I have ever been to! I hunted there two years ago, will again this year and spend a lot of bucks in ND(gladly). I don"t break rules and am not a meat hunter. All I can figure out is that you guys just don't want us there or are afraid we will shoot all the birds. I respect the laws and appreciate the great state of ND. What is the problem?


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

There are to many of you with increasing numbers,to keep the quality youv'e seen.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

Christ, here we go again, its the same EVERY WEEK! uke:


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

SD is really that great, eh? :eyeroll:

First,, in SD all private land is automatically posted.

Second, Pheasants rule the roost with over *60,000 NRs *traveling to sodak to hunt roosters. With pheasants mostly east of the big MO and the big river cutting through SD further east - hunter density is HIGH.

Third, Guides, outfitters and land owners do not care much about ducks and geese because they are filled-up with pheasant hunters and if the outfitter decides he want his sports to chase waterfowl, then the guides have their private land only waterfowl licenses "set aside" for them. Typically do not sell out in the lottery.

*Good idea for the ND guides and waterfowlers - private land only NR waterfowl licenses?? Not!  Land would be gobbled up so quick that ... *

So SD residents are often forced to hunt pheasants in road ditches *(had to file a law suit to protect that great right)* or walk-in access / public land..

Waterfowl are around in SD and maybe(?) less disturbed. But, it takes much more effort to get access to fields and ponds where birds are. You need to know land owners names (no posters - remember). So if freelancing without landowner permission is the goal - it won't happend in the FIELDS of Sodak.

The only thing that a determined waterfowler has going for him is that pheasant season does not open until noon or 10AM. So if you ask enough places - maybe - just maybe someone well say yes - go hunt dem ducks.

If the new waterfowl "hot spot" is really Sodak then I would expect that many on this site would have thrown their name into the lottery and travel south rather than north into Canada.

I wonder how many North Dakotans travel to SD and buy a waterfowl license? Buy the County PLAT MAP books you will need 'em :wink:


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

> Buy the County PLAT MAP books you will need 'em


Good advice wherever you plan to scout or hunt.


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## octnov (Aug 21, 2004)

GB3- If ND,overall, feels like it seems many do in the state, that NR's are not welcome, I would almost guarantee you that ND will end up like Illinois, all land in the hands of a few and even residents will have to pay to hunt, or use state owned land that allows only 20-to 30 blinds and drawings held daily to get chosen to hunt. Often times being not chosen and turned away with no place to hunt. You have a great state and a fairly open state, don't allow it to become all in the hands of a few who have the $$$ to own it and charge all of you to hunt. Thanks for reading and keeping an open mind. You may think this is far out, but believe me I have seen it and lived with it in Illinois.


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## Dekes (Aug 21, 2004)

Hey Sid,
You are welcome anytime. I've always taken pride that I'm a good enough hunter that I can adapt to various situations and still be successful. By that, I mean if hunter density is high you just have to work a little harder and be a little more careful to get your birds. And above all, remember hunting is recreation, not life and death. If I don't get birds its not the end of the world. Just keep the experience positive.


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

goosebuster3

I agree it just gets old after awhile. I have hunted in North dakota for two many years to count. I have never had a bad experience even when I lived in Minneapolis and came back up to the Devils lake area. I have hunted there with my father since I was a kid and we already have reservations for this season. I can't think of a better way to bond with him than In a duck blind in a country we both love, it is something I would die without. In all the years we have hunted there I would say in 20 year period of time I have ran into 50-75 other hunters. This is just a fact I have not seen the pressure everyone seems to talk about. I do agree numbers of NR hunters have increased. I just don't see why we can't just get along and use this site for its intent and that is hunting and what I hope we all want. If you want to blame all that is wrong with everything hunting realated on NR hunters at this point that is fine. I don't take opprotunities away from locals I 90% of the time hunt on waterfowl production areas, Which are payed for by my federal tax dollars as well as North Dakota Residents of which I used to be. Again I hunt on federal land and if I do hunt private it is only with permission to do so. If the owner says no I move on and find some place else to hunt. Again, I don't mean to offend you locals but this blame game is getting really old. I think last years poor hunting had more to do with 80 temps and weather than it did by some 34000 NR hunters spread out over a 60 day season. Also, I would just like to say maybe if we attacked anti hunting groups like Pita and those waco groups instead of attacking other hunters we would do more to help our own cause.

Sid, I agree with you a 100%, have a good hunt and enjoy Gods country.


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

Dekes,

Just wanted to say thank you for your comments. It is exactly what I am saying. It is the experience not the killing that makes duck hunting the greastest sport. If I get 4 instead of 6 ducks so what I still had a great experience outdoors. Again, just wanted to say what a great outlook and have a great season.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Honestly guys, I just wanted to know how you thought about the liberal season.

If you want to debate R/NR hunting issues, please start a new thread in the hot topics.


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## prairie hunter (Mar 13, 2002)

Liberal season is made for the guides, outfitters, and big time money leasing land in the south.

US rule makers => They always tend to error on the liberal side. :******:

Liberal seasons, January 31 season ending dates in the South, and September season in the north. Kill those damn ducks, kill as many as you can. :eyeroll: That is the mission of too many making the rules.

Conservative approach to the resource is not in vogue.

IMHO - yes - it is too much, but the "biological" arguement is you can not stock pile ducks and the pond count next spring is key - is this hypothesis valid or not? Does ND have ponds without ducks in the spring?

Then I guess I never really believed that anyone needs to shoot six ducks per day. I would like the USFWS move to a 4/day - 12 or 16 posession type system like many states run with upland.

In ND - a four duck limit should lower the number of hunters coming into ND to hunt, lower afternoon pressure since limits are easier to get, and finally result in a few less birds in the bag.

Is biology compromised by politics?

Why is always RETIRED USFWS employees speaking up (like the guys who attend the meeting in Duluth that spoke against the liberal season)?

I would suspect that many current USFWS biologists may disagree too, but fear the political hammer if they speak up - can we blame them?


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## Perry Thorvig (Mar 6, 2002)

Thanks, PH for your insights on SD hunting. It is helpful.

To everyone else. How about a 30 day duck season? (Geese are something else again. I wouldn't know what to do there.) Let's really conserve. Wouldn't that frost those southerners! BTW, I don't believe in the theory that ducks can't be stockpiled for the next season.

We only get to hunt about 30 days here - maybe 45 before it freezes up now that we have late September openings. Maybe that would crimp the style of the guiding operations a little bit.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Yur'e right Perry...I usually don't get more that 30-40 days here anyway.That's why starting the season on Sept 25th really does add 1 more week.


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## goose0613 (Oct 24, 2003)

I think a redirection of focus is in need here. I just recently attended a presentation by Phil Robertson which brought up some points that I think should be taken into consideration before other regulations need to be addressed. What do you think are the major factors involved in duck mortality? Do you really think the reason for the declining populations of ducks is due to the 6 duck limit? Do you think it is because of the MN residents hunting in ND? Take a look at Delta's site. Read what they have to say. Nearly 9 of every 10 ducks does not make it down the flyway because of one thing -- predators. Not NR hunters, and not the 6 / day limit. These ducks never even see the states. What all of us can do is take the money you were going to use to purchase that $150 duck call, and the time you spent yacking about NRs and liberal limits, and donate it to DU or Delta in order to contribute to the future of our sport. Maybe then we wouldn't have to debate the MN vs. ND issue, nor the liberal limit issue.


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## racer66 (Oct 6, 2003)

How about a liberal season on liberals. :beer: :sniper:


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

Amen,

When does the season begin and do we really need a limit?


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## goose0613 (Oct 24, 2003)

Racer, I am not saying that I need to go out and shoot more ducks per day than I need. Personally, I am just as content with a couple of drakes as I am with a full bag. My point was that these issues wouldn't be as great of a concern if we all took a step back and focused on what really matters -- habitat


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I have always found the idea that we might as well shoot them because they are gonna die anyway, a stupid thought process. I know that the facts say that 9/10 are gonna die. But 10 out of the 10 you shoot are dead.

How many ducks are harvested in the US per year? Even if we reduced the bag by 1 million and 10% of those ducks make it to breed then we have 100,000 more ducks breeding. Populations of animals follow an exponention growth curve up to the carrying capacity of the land.

My question is this. Is the land at its carrying capacity? I don't know. But if its not then we are shooting to many ducks.


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## goose0613 (Oct 24, 2003)

Grinder,

I am no biologist, but I know a little about ecological systems. The situation we have today with populations of migrating ducks seems very similar to me as the deer herds of the kaibob plateau, or any other ecological system population catastrophy. In this case, I think it is our farming practices that have decimated the populations of ducks, not liberal limits. Farmers have the capability to drain wetlands and farm right up to the edge of a pothole, so much that there now exists only 5-10 feet in some cases of cover between dry land and water. This puts the ducks in a very vulnerable position, and ultimately results in lesser and lesser numbers of ducks. I say, this is the cause -- not liberal limits. What can be done about it is to make an attempt to right where we have gone wrong. I don't think that decreasing bag limits will affect the duck populations significantly enough to make a difference. What will is to improve habitat conditions across Canadian breeding grounds.


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## Dekes (Aug 21, 2004)

I'm really curious, one of you guys mentioned the decimated duck populations. You can't be hunting in the same country I am because for me the duck hunting is as good for me now as its ever been. I've been around long enough to have seen bad times and these times are certainly not like those. In fact the last ten years I have had the best duck hunting experiences of my life.


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## nate26 (Jul 29, 2004)

Dekes,

Again your logic and reaoning can not be argued with. I agree with you a 100%. I thought Duck numbers are sitting well above there long term goals. I try not to take a limit every time I go out and hunt. I do this by choice. I will say duck hunting even in a slow year is the most exciting thing I can think of doing. Hell I even do it in the winter down here in the deserts of Arizona.

It is not the killing it is the hunt that makes it great.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I agree that the populations are lower than in the past because of reduced habitat. I have no doubt about that. I am not arguing this point. I am wondering if we have enough ducks to utilize the habitat that we do have.

Dekes,
To look at your individual county and say that duck populations are high is a very micro outlook on the whole scene. Thats like saying all of rural ND is thriving economically after spending a month in Fargo. I'm talking about the whole picture. Are we shooting to many ducks?

Liberal seasons are not equating to better duck hunting but you would think that would be the case given that there should be good m\numbers of ducks. You can hear this from hunters all down the flyways, especially the Mississippi. These guys aren't even seeing the ducks. Is this because they have changed patterns or are there really fewer ducks coming down the flyway in the fall.

I don't know but when guys say they aren't seeing ducks that has to mean something.


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## Guest (Aug 25, 2004)

Yeah, but are southern states not seeing ducks due to the mild winters down there or is it because there are now no ducks??? It's pretty bogus to me, has anyone seen what the harvest was in Louisiana this year? Could've swore I saw that they were up in harvest rate a lot, can't remember exact number though, thought they jumped up to #2 in harvest per hunter...

GG, why don't you do the study to see if we have the right amount of ducks utilizing the amount of habitat availalbe in the midwest, since you seem to worry about it so much. I mean, how much habitat do you guys really lose due to drought, developement(None), etc... Hell, the whole US needs to be checked!!! I think there's way too much habitat available for the DUCKS out there in the Dakotas, Canada, entire Prairie Pothole region... Remember though, I am a N/R!! :lol: I mean, come on. Try hunting a state where the fields are no more than 40 acres, wetlands consisting of no more than 25 acres, if even half that and tell me what you think, then tell me why we have so many ducks. I think it's called ADAPTABILITY, which is the key to survival. Wait till NoDak's nothing more than what we are here, and then you'll have something to ***** about. Ducks stil find a great way to survive, which is why we still hunt..

It's pathetic, but it's still good if you scout a ton and hunt a little... Maybe you guys should try hunting MN and seeing what it CAN be like before it's too late....


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## Dekes (Aug 21, 2004)

You know I may be living in a dream world the way you guys talk, but I know I'm not. I don't hunt just in Kidder County and even in Kidder County I find large numbers of migrant ducks as well as the opening day brown ducks. I've had fun duck hunts from Newburg to Dawson. I trust that the professionals know what they're doing and I see that they are every season. I'm not saying that some hunters have had bad experiences in the field and Lord knows that includes me but I just don't see the decimated and dwindling duck populations that you talk about.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

In our society it is our job to question the people making decisions. I trust our professionals to make good decisions but sometimes I wonder if politics are creaping into wildlife management. This is scary to me.

We will see this fall what the numbers look like. I hope they are good.


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

The ducks DO adapt... they fly to SD after two weeks of non-stop pressure. I for one hope ND NEVER gets like MN in terms of waterfowl hunting.....unfortunately some of your legislators won't be happy until that happens.


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## octnov (Aug 21, 2004)

I agree that the season length and bag liumits seem very liberal if all you guys say is true from what you have seen. I could have accepted a 60 day but 4 bird limit a little better. Here in Illinois if you can get 4 birds and not belong to an expensive club in order to do, you are happy. I guess those in the know did what they felt was best(or were pressured to do by the powers that be). The almighty $$$$ how to make more of it really can speakly loudly to a lot of people. Oh well, enjoy the outdoors, the beauty og the birds themselves and have fun. A bad day hunting is better than a great day at work.
Sid :beer:


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## passshooter (Aug 25, 2004)

I don't think the hunting season is responsible for falling waterfowl #'s & I don't think that shortineng the season will increase the # of waterfowl available in the future. I don't understand why so many people are in such a hurry to give up their hunting opportunitys. Waterfowling is not a sport to me. I do not hunt for the sake of conservation either. Waterfowling is my life & I love everything about it & it is fun. I think we could have a 120 day season (a 2 bird limit is fine w/ me but I don't think it is necessary). Loss of habitat & overpopulation (people pollution) are the root causes of our declining waterfowl #'s & shorter seasons won't change that.


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## goose0613 (Oct 24, 2003)

Yup!


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

On thr radio this am KFGO I heard the G and F rep (Randy) say they thought the duck numbers were going to be down 40% Yikes! Anyone else pick up on that?

Have a good one!


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