# Obamacare



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Texas judge rules Obamacare unconstitutional.

Medicare
Obamacare has meant lower premiums, deductibles and cost-sharing for the roughly 60 million senior citizens and disabled Americans enrolled in the program.
The health reform law made many changes to Medicare. It slowed the growth of payment rates to hospitals and other providers, reduced payments to Medicare Advantage plans and improved benefits for enrollees. The Obama administration estimated that the typical Medicare beneficiary pays about $700 less in premiums and cost sharing thanks to the Affordable Care Act.

Under Obamacare, Medicare enrollees also receive free preventative benefits, such as screenings for breast and colorectal cancer, heart disease and diabetes.
And Obamacare helped close the gap in Medicare's drug coverage and was on track to completely eliminate it by 2020. Senior citizens have to pay more for drugs while they are in the donut hole, which lies between the initial coverage and catastrophic coverage phases. (The Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018 accelerated the closing of the coverage gap to 2019.)

Trump says it was a great day. Obviously he doesn't need it. Thanks a lot Republicans. Plainsman this affects you and me. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

somebody is making up for the seniors savings. i think it's the working class. just shifting the expense to capture the vote.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I was in the working class for 50 YEARS to help support my parents. My payments were shifted. Like I said......thanks a lot Republicans. Everyone should be covered. oke: oke:


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

So, the fact that it is unconstitutional, i.e. against the law, means nothing to you. Apparently, neither does the fact that President Trump and the Republicans are working on a replacement, something that is not unconstitutional.

Oh yeah, you're welcome.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

huntin1 said:


> So, the fact that it is unconstitutional, i.e. against the law, means nothing to you. Apparently, neither does the fact that President Trump and the Republicans are working on a replacement, something that is not unconstitutional.
> 
> Oh yeah, you're welcome.


That's from a conservative judge in Texas. How about we try it in District 9 in Calif.? But then that would mean nothing to you would it? So Trump and his Republican buddies in Congress have had 2 years to replace it. Where is it? Guess Trump and his Republican buddies are just slow learners. Well.....guess what......time's up.

And you are also welcome.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

My Medicare rates have not gone down. my son who ownes his own business has had his insurance rates triple.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> My Medicare rates have not gone down. my son who ownes his own business has had his insurance rates triple.


My fathers medicare rates have gone up. My rates have gone up (until this year) by 4 times as when I started in the working force in 2000. My deductible has gone up from $500, $1000, $1500 and now is at $6500. Before my insurance would pay 1 penny it would cost me an out of pocket expense of $14,900!! I also forgot.... My original plan got cut and company pulled out of the State for a little bit then rejoined with "higher" deductibles and premium.

I could go on for days on Obamacare... and I have. This was a good day to make the "tax"... I mean mandate was against constitutional powers.

BTW.... the reason why my insurance went down is because of the new tax law cutting the "mandate". It was written that way in the letter I got. So yeah. The insurance companies don't have to "plan" or "Price" for a whole bunch of people that will "possibly" be in the insurance pool. They go off of the old data and client base...then off of the growth for the pool numbers of possible insurance clients as a normal growth scale of new enrollies. Then use each age demographic for procedures and what not to caculate the premium. They don't have the "unknown" aspect floating around there like the did with "Obamacare" and the markets.

Also I will say...

Yes some parts about Obamacare is good just like what Ken mentioned. But many parts were bad. The Republicans need to swallow their pride and take some of the good that came with Obamacare and tweak it to make a good plan for all. They also need to revamp how many things get done... .ie: cost of bringing drugs to market, time frame companies have to keep a strangle hold on that patent or drug, introduction of generics or piggy backing off of other research for those drugs, cost of doing medicine in the USA, TORT REFORM, etc. BTW... you know they are still screaming for nurses but hospitals are hiring more "none patient seeing" people than nurses! How do you think they get paid... from insurance. Anyways like I mentioned I could go on days and days on this.

Here is some food for thought....

Remember how the number of "uninsured" during the whole debate was out there and never a true figure (some said 50 mil others 10 mil, etc) but finally people "estimated" 20-30 million. Well right now they are using percentages. In one figure I saw they say that only 5% of the nation is "now" uninsured to show a victory.... you know that that is roughly for our population....16-17 million are now uninsured! (population of roughly 330 million people in USA) So has this bill done what it was supposed to do??? Now lets look at some of those facts. How many more people hit Medicare age? How many more 18 year olds are now covered until age 26 under parents policies? So like I mentioned some good provision... but those numbers don't tell the whole story. So when people call Obamacare a success.... Question them on it. Just those two simple facts of how many people did it help get insurance.... uke:

I know a lot more people that are like me and had increases in premium, increases in out of pocket (deductible), higher co-pays, etc.

I will go back to one of my main talking points on this back when we debated it.... A law was passed that affected the whole nation that was meant to help 10% of the population (30 million uninsured). They could have easily made another welfare type program for that 10%.... :bop:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

As a teacher the school had group insurance through BCBS. At our first day of inservice the BCBS guy showed up and gave us the bad news.....our rates were going up.....that is EVERY YEAR for over 30 years!!!! And there were still millions not insured. Hospitals would not turn away uninsured in cases of emergencies. Did they treat those uninsured for no charge? No chance......they just billed all the rest of us more. So rates continued to go up. No different than today.

And yes Chuck, our deductibles went up also. At first no deductible. Then a hundred, then 500. Then 1000. up up and away. And prescription drugs went through the roof. Thank god for generics. Saved a lot of people from making the decision.....drugs or food. I never want anyone to have to make that decision.

Obama Care tried to change all that. At least Democrats tried. What have Republicans done for Health Care in the past....NOTHING, NADA, ZIPPO, Nil, Zero.Republicans have ALWAYS lived by the motto of Reaganomics.....I got mine, screw you.

Is Obama Care the end all for Health Care???? No it isn't. But it can be worked on and the best parts kept. Republicans have continued to try to get rid of it. They always say.....we have a better plan. A statement above......"President Trump and the Republicans are working on a replacement,"......Time to PUT UP OR SHUT UP. How long will it take? 8 years and counting since Obama Care was passed in 2010.  All Republicans can say is.....yup we are working on a plan. They have been working for almost a DECADE.My guess seeing what they have done in the past.....NEVER

This is why I am a Democrat and never will be a Republican. Things haven't changed in the past 50 years and won't in my lifetime. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

Did you plan as a teach got cut? Was it a Union decision to increase deductibles, etc.

All of my stuff happened not by my choice! I could not have stayed at a lower deductible... the decision was made for me. That is a huge difference.

You are correct the republicans haven't done anything. They need to!

But Obamacare is a horrible thing that happened to our country and is bankrupting many people. Even more so than with the increases people were facing before it. My insurance went from $2500 a year before Obamacare (2012)&#8230; to Over $8000 a year in 2018! I am not the only one this happened too. Many people who were under some sort of employer plan got changed to an individual plan because of the increases. Yes they were considered now "independent" contractors. the employer payed them money to either get insurance, keep that money, or pay the fine. It was changed on them. Because the employer didn't want to be forced to pay for insurance. So this way the company could stay afloat. These are stories you are not hearing.

Then the numbers that people throw out is totally bogus about how many people it is helping! Like I mentioned still 16 million people with out insurance. Baby boomers are getting older and going on to medicare&#8230;. kids who were in that 30 million number in college can stay on parents programs.... So did it actual help the people it was meant too.... I DONT THINK SO! The demographic changed in age groups to make numbers look good.

Anyways... I should just repost links to my old posts back when we debated this... then you can tell me if the stuff happened did or are we just re hashing old BS talking points.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

This was a school decision negotiated by the teachers and board. Only problem was that BCBS was the ONLY health insurance willing to cover the school.....so basically all schools in ND had BCBS and were told....."Take it or leave it." The only thing negotiated was how much of it would be paid by the school.....Some had full coverage paid. But for most it was a single policy. When even that got to be to high.....the school started putting in a dollar amount. All school employees got that coverage....janitors, cooks etc.

So it was a monopoly by BCBS. No different than today. Rates always went up and we paid more.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken....

If the negotiators wanted to keep same deductible..... but paid a higher price... could they?

I didn't have that option.

Also I know what you are talking about with the "monopoly"... which is an issue. Remember people talking about letting companies do "across state lines"... Well Obamacare took that out of play. They mandated what was and wasn't covered. Let say if someone wanted a policy to just cover "Major medical" stuff. No meds, no appointments, etc. They cant get that type of policy because of what "needs" to be covered in every policy. In auto insurance you get your choice of full coverage, glass, comp only, collision, or liability. With medical insurance you don't. You get full coverage and that is it! Again Companies hands are tied. They cant offer a "cut rate" version type thing. Anyways there is a millions things that could be done but aren't.... by both parties.

I like how you keep coming back to Trump the Rep have had control for two years and haven't gotten anything done. Well maybe they don't want to ram something down the throats of the country. Also the reason why something got done so fast by Obamacare is because many people voted on emotion (death of Kennedy) than actual studying of the bill. They took a small scale model in a highly taxed state and tried to implement it for the country. It has been shown to be a total failure for the majority of the population. People who say it is a great success are in the minority or are looking at it with blinders. I am sorry that is the truth. I am looking at it in full vision. That is why I can say some of the stuff is good (pre existing conditions cant be denied insurance, medicare stuff, keeping kids on longer, some of the accounting BS issues with making companies show that they are using premiums, etc.) Yet the nuts and bolts of it is horrible.

My honest opinion is that they set it up to fail. To push the nation to a one payer system. I know conspiracy theory stuff but it is my honest opinion.

Like I mentioned I could talk hours on this subject.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Yes.....you could take any of the deductibles offered. The school paid part....you chose the deductible. Most young teachers with little kids chose no deductible. Older teachers took the higher deductible. I was fortunate in that my wife also taught in the system. So I would take single and she would take family. So my insurance was covered. We paid premiums taken out of our checks.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken...

that is the difference that happened to you compared to many.

Like I mentioned... I was forced the deductible changes. They didn't "offer" my plans anymore. Also I have to go to a certain hospital or I pay the full amount. Yep the old "you can keep your plan, you can keep your doctor" was a lie! Should we go after Obama on criminal charges??? He stated these things??? oke: oke:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

"If you like your doctor you can keep your doctor" was perhaps the most visible lie ever told by any president. Most often it's only an opinion, but we all heard Obama say it. It may the with if you make less than $250k your taxes will go down.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is a good article.... even for VOX.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/insuranc ... id=DELLDHP

To summarize it... it talks about the very high costs of going to the ER. It talks about how just showing up to the ER can cost $500-$3000. That is just the "entrance fee". It shows eye drops costing $240 when you can buy them at a drug store for $50 or less. They talk about $60 ibuprofrin&#8230;. stuff like that.

I also want to add in what it costs to take an ambulance ride now. In my small town... my sister-in-law was having some chest pains so they call the ambulance and they took her to the ER. The bill my brother got was $3000. They didn't give her anything on the drive up (30 miles)&#8230; they did hook her up to monitors and what not. But also in that $3000 was $500 for "mileage". Again... .who pays for that... INSURANCE!!!

I am not saying don't go to the ER or use the ambulance. But just showing you how these FEES are crazy and another reason why Health Insurance is so costly. :bop:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Heck.....I was in an accident and had to be taken to the hospital in Fargo by helicopter.....Medicare paid $12,000 for a 15 minute ride. AND I don't remember any of it. That was 10 years ago.....Wonder what the cost is today.

Had knee replacement done 2 years ago.....cost $55,000. And the doctor was doing 4-5 a day.

Insane.....I don't see this slowing down w/o some kind of gov't regulation. I keep reading that Denny Sanford is donating $100,000's so he can have his name plastered all over sports arenas and football fields. uke: uke: uke:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Here is the deal... in all other "industry" there are pricing regulations or "consumer protection".... ie: no gouging. Yet in medicine... there isn't or very little (as we saw with the Epi Pen last year). But we need more of it. What we need is regulation by the government to allow Private insurance companies to for a "union" type thing and come up with a pricing model. The reason why you need the government involved is otherwise it is "price fixing".... which is illegal. Hospitals need to be treated like business..... even the "none profit" ones.... which they are all "for profit". The government needs to look into that stuff as well. But again with Big Pharma, Big Medical, etc .. lobbying and lining the pockets of the politicians... this wont happen.

Also like I have mentioned over and over. Is call around for pricing if you can (if your insurance lets you... mine doesn't). Yep shop for your healthcare.


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