# Sakajawea...



## DJRooster

How do the pike fisherman know that is time to fish the bays for pike at the big lake in the spring? Is it water temperature, has the ice melted away from shore at the main lake or are just the bays open?


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## boondocks

At the end of febuary start fishing the biggest shallow back bays on the north side of the lake.Fish on the north shore where the sun is beating down on the ice and shore deteriorating the ice.Use smelt.The bigguns will be back there before the ice is off the lake.The crappier the ice the better.Good luck.PRACTICE CATCH AND RELEASE OR GO HOME


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## Madison

boondocks said:


> PRACTICE CATCH AND RELEASE OR GO HOME


Right ON!!


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## buckseye

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> boondocks wrote:
> PRACTICE CATCH AND RELEASE OR GO HOME
> 
> Right ON!!


with a full limit of hogs. Is catch and release some kind of Peta trick or what, you catch fish and eat them not wound them and throw them back.


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## The Dogger

Im sure that we are all referring to the big female pigs that we want back in the water to continue the spawn of the future hogs, and too stabilize the fishery in general. Keeping an eater or two or 3 is just fine.


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## buckseye

Don't them big females make the best mounts with their extended bellies? It seems that is all I ever see on the wall or internet, everybody deserves to take a hog or two to keep. I'm only bringing this up so kids don't have to feel guilty if they keep a big fish.

To me catch and release is kinda like why everyone loves a hard worker, because they do all the work. Meaning throw that biatch back in so I can catch it too.


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## boondocks

I see nothing wrong with keeping a few fish to eat.In my opinion put the hogs back.Buckseye,with that kind of attitude there ain't gonna be any hogs left.CATCH AND RELEASE THE HOGS OR GO HOME!!!


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## Madison

Is catch and release some kind of Peta trick or what, you catch fish and eat them not wound them and throw them back.[/quote]

Walleyes, perch and other panfish:

-Catch fish and eat them, yes.

Muskies and Big Pike:

-Wound them, NO. Eat them, No. 
-Catch and Photo and Release, Yes.

Knowing how to handle a big fish is another topic that we need to educate people on.. education on proper support of the fish's body if going for a horizontal pose. Never want to handle a big fish by its gills and hang it vertically.. Never want to practice CTR on big fish (CTR= Catch Torture and Release)


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## Madison

buckseye said:


> Don't them big females make the best mounts with their extended bellies? It seems that is all I ever see on the wall or internet, everybody deserves to take a hog or two to keep.


Not really.. I would say that there are a lot of replicas done on big fish..


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## buckseye

Anybody who has ever kept a hog, even if they were a kid, and tell others not to is a hypocrite. I fall into that category I have kept hogs when I was young but I'm not going to be a hypocrite. I suppose there are some who have never in their life kept a big fish but I don't know any of them. Fish for your own pleasure I guess.


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## Madison

buckseye said:


> Anybody who has ever kept a hog, even if they were a kid, and tell others not to is a hypocrite. I suppose there are some who have never in their life kept a big fish but I don't know any of them. .


I wouldnt go as far as to say one is hypocrite for keeping a fish in their younger days and is now preaching to everyone to NOT keep the big fish..BAck then I didnt realize the importance of CPR but in the last 15 years I have.

Yes I kept a big fish once when I was younger, but I also did not like beer, vegetables, coffee, water, girls, but does that now make me a hypocrite because I have become a believer in those things.. NO..

Like I have said in other posts its all about educating someone. .


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## MossyMO

Madison
You didn't like beer? As Mr. T would say, "I pity the fool...." :rollin:


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## djleye

Or Girls!!!!!!!


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## Madison

MossyMO said:


> Madison
> You didn't like beer? As Mr. T would say, "I pity the fool...." :rollin:


[/quote]

Allright.. Allright.. I knew I would attract a couple of comedians :lol: :lol:

WHen I was 10, I didnt like beer or girls.. But thats old stuff and I have been partying :rock: and pimping :bop: like James Brown ever since I was 11!!


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## buckseye

sorry madison :lol: I agree with you... :lol: "I pity the fool" :lol:


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## The Dogger

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.


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## Burly1

Educate, yes. Belittle someone because they want to mount the biggest fish of their life? That's ignorant and does nothing but create hard feelings. Educate and try to change regulations through proper channels. Education is a powerful tool. Twenty years ago I would never release any but trash fish. Now, having been educated through the pages of In Fisherman, watching their TV show, and fishing a lot of smaller waters where the taking of big fish makes an immediate and evident impact has changed my views and created, within me, a very strong C&R ethic. 
Boondocks wrote:
"Practice catch and release or go home!"
You feel strongly about something important. Great. But don't try to enforce your opinions when the law says otherwise. It's still legal to catch and keep a big fish, even if someone wants to eat them. One of the nastiest confrontations I ever had was with an angler that had kept three bass exceeding five pounds each. I simply tried to explain to him that keeping a few panfish would fill the frying pan, and provide better eating to boot. He not only got upset, but proceeded to get right in my face. Fortunately, he calmed down before I had to throw him in the lake.
My point is simply that there are ways to get what you feel is important that won't cause others to let the air out of your tires while you're out on the lake. Sponsor a catch and release youth day at the local pond. How about a family C&R Saturday on a certain bay on Sak in April? Have folks register and provide some small prizes. There are lot's of positive ways to achieve your goals. Give them a chance too. Burl


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## Madison

The game and fish has not put strict limits on sizes of certain fish BUT have incorporated the whopper club which promotes CPR.. This is a very good program in my eyes and is the beginning stages to furthering the promotion of CPR all other types of species, not just muskies and Big Pike...

I'm not sure I would even want to eat a 45+" pike or muskie, even walleyes for that matter... These top of the food chain predatory fish are going to be full of bioaccumulative toxins such as mercury and PCB's..

Let em go Let em Grow!!


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## boondocks

Hey Burly1 my CATCH AND RELEASE OR GO HOME comment may have been a little harsh, but being the fish you will most likely catch in the back bays of SAK in the spring will likely be spawning females,I stand by my comment.Even though it is legal it is still unethical.I do feel strongly about this.And it makes me a little leary of posting any reports on this website knowing that there are people out there that have no problem going home cleaning a limit of 20lb pike.You're right I shouldn't force my opinion on any one,but I think the importance of Catch and Release needs to be pounded home.


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## njsimonson

Boondocks - Man, I was the saaaame way as you at one point. You sit there and holler and preach C&R until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't seem to do any good.

Then I realized through tactful expressions of my opinion with some data to back it up, people take more notice than being forceful. I share the same visions as you for the release of trophy caliber fish. I just don't go about it the same way any more.

Do what you can yourself, and set an example, rather than pounding your fist on the digital podium. Besides, you're pretty much preaching to the choir here...except for Buckseye, he's in a whole 'nother church. 

"Even though it is legal it is still unethical" - Not everyone operates under the same ethical systems as you and I do, and you have to give deference to their free will, as long as it obeys the minimums society sets.


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## buckseye

nj actually it's a whole nother school.  Thanks for setting boondocks straight on ethics, he seems pretty big headed about this. He musta released his first fish recently. 

You guys know I wouldn't even fish if they were in short supply. Do you realize that smaller fish have eggs too and don't eat as much or as big of fish for their meals as the hogs do? 

nj I had to throw this in... a lawyer talking about ethics is pretty funny :lol:


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## Madison

I dont think anyone in this post is trying to be forceful by preaching CPR. I think its more of a concept that people need to think about.

Its hard to reflect ones emotions over a keyboard, I think Boondock and I for that matter are just trying to express the imporatance of CPR..

If people want to catch trophy fish you have to put the trophy fish back not slice and dice and feed your family with toxic laden fillets or fertilize your garden..

Buckseye is right, its basically a whole other school and era in which you grew up on whether or not a fish goes back in the water or goes home with you...

I personally think its pretty selfish to remove a trophy class fish from a lake just to promote yourself as being some kind of master angler or something because you got lucky and caught a fish.. Why not throw it back and let it grow and provide another opportunity for someone else to catch it..


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## buckseye

> I personally think its pretty selfish to remove a trophy class fish from a lake just to promote yourself as being some kind of master angler or something because you got lucky and caught a fish.. Why not throw it back and let it grow and provide another opportunity for someone else to catch it..


Nothing personal maddy but I was thinking along the same lines as how selfish it is to go out and catch fish just to catch fish. Us older guys who helped make this state what it is are considered dumb these days. We don't need respect we don't need fame we just need all you fancy pants to quit pushing your ideals on us, we'll die and be out of your way someday just wait your turn. :lol:


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## dblkluk

Wow This thread has gone astray. :lol: 
To first answer the original question, We usually start beginning to middle March. Generally once the run off starts and the warmer water starts runnin into the bays is a good time to start. But the best fishing usually happens when its really sketchy being out on the ice!
I'm a huge believer in CPR. Film developing is a lot cheaper than a taxidermist bill. 
My buddies and I talked a bunch about catch and release last weekend. I landed a nice walleye snapped a couple pics and let er go. One of my buddies, who has never caught a big walleye was amazed I'd let it go. We discussed it and he understood, but if he caught one he said he'd have to keep it. I also understood where he was coming from. 
I think once a guy catches a few nice fish its easier to start letting them go. Everytime I catch a nice fish and release it I hope that it finds its way to the end of a kids line!


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## njsimonson

> I personally think its pretty selfish to remove a trophy class fish from a lake just to promote yourself as being some kind of master angler or something because you got lucky and caught a fish.


Agreed, but this "pound it down your throat, you either agree with me or you're the enemy" mindset is the LEAST effective way to do it.



> nj I had to throw this in... a lawyer talking about ethics is pretty funny


Ha, yeah, I have found it hard to keep a straight face while teaching Chapter 2 of my business law class at VCSU: "Law, Business and Ethics" My syllabus says: "Chapter 2, Law and Ethics (Stop laughing, I'm serious)."


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## Madison

buckseye said:


> . We don't need respect we don't need fame we just need all you fancy pants to quit pushing your ideals on us, we'll die and be out of your way someday just wait your turn. :lol:


Good stuff Buckeye!! :lol: :lol:


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## buckseye

Thanks maddy, nj... I can see the humor in it too :lol:


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## boondocks

I originally was just trying to give a fellow fisherman some helpful hints.I wasn't meaning to hurt anyones feeling.(Joking)Besides it been a good string.A minor disagreement has never hurt anyone before at least not online anyway. :beer:


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## DJRooster

And I found out when to start fishing the bays of Sak. for pike!


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## buckseye

Start when the open water shows up along the shoreline. I like casting out onto the ice and dragging the hook off the ice and let it fall a little ways before I start reeling it in.


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## Lycanthrope

C&R is a little overrated, especially when the water levels are dropping like they are. Personally I will do just about anything I can to keep fishing on the ice, even when its possible to fish from shore I will use a ladder to get out on the ice, you can fish more lines and dont have to walk in mud all day long. Really there are many times when the ice is fine for walking even when the shore is open. Personally, while I will fish for pike whenever I get the chance, I preffer to keep them when they are caught in cold water and are in the 5 to 12lb range. Larger and they will usually end up swimming away unless they are injured and smaller will either go back or b donated to less fortunate fish eaters.


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## boondocks

Lycanthrope.you're over rated!  Sorry, I got excited again.


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## Fossilman

I fish and (hunt) to feed my family,so I take home everything I catch.
There are some days I will c&r a fish,but not many............
When my family is all grown up and out of here I might be doing more c&r,but not now.......


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## Madison

Fossilman said:


> I fish and (hunt) to feed my family,so I take home everything I catch.
> There are some days I will c&r a fish,but not many............
> When my family is all grown up and out of here I might be doing more c&r,but not now.......


Predator fish at the top of the food chain tend to have elevated levels of Mercury which is a bioaccumulant which may lead to long term health affects to you and your family.

Symptoms include these: tremors; emotional changes; insomnia; neuromuscular changes (such as weakness, muscle atrophy, twitching); headaches; disturbances in sensations; changes in nerve responses; performance deficits on tests of cognitive function. Exposures of Mercury may also lead to kidney effects, respiratory failure and death. People concerned about their exposure to elemental mercury should consult their physician.

Muskies plus the almagam in your mouth from the dentist is just going to increase your ingestion exposure and lead to future health affects...It would be best bet just to not eat em, besides Muskies taste like poop anyway (from what I hear) and You dont want to feed your family poop.

:2cents: Let em go, let em grow.


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## USAlx50

Wow.... Some people on here are funny. Do you really fish to feed your family? Good one, I bet you save a bunch of money by doing that instead of going to the grocery store.

When I was 5 I wanted to keep a nice bass i caught, i wanted it mounted. My dad mounted it for me for my birthday. It now sits on my wall, dusty, I forget its even there. So am I a hipocrite for preaching [email protected]? How many of you have caught a trophy musky? Its an awesome experience that I spend insane amounts of money and time to accomplish. Ive caught numerous tagged muskies and called in their tags. Guess what, a lot of them have been reported before from previous catches. Too bad the person before didn't "feed their family" with a 44" musky. There are documented examples of a trophy musky caught 3+ times by the same fisherman, but i suppose the fishermen would have better suited themselves by keeping it. MN is the best musky fishing state in the country because of its catch and release.

"smaller fish have eggs too" - ever think of the fact that muskies and pike have genetics just like every other animal. I would rather have the trophy genetics being reproduced then have a lake full of hammerhandles.

I still keep a small "hammerhandle" on occasion, doesn't hurt the resource at all. But no matter how hard i try i cant find a good reason to keep a 20 lb pike or any musky. Replicas these days are amazing, and your only hurting yourself and fellow fisherman.

[email protected] is overrated :lol: good one

sorry for the length and for pushing my "ideals" on the older gentleman who made ND what it is today.


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## USAlx50

"[email protected] is overated" is pretty ignorant. I suppose you guys dont know of any lakes/resoviors/rivers that have been overharvested and aren't worth your time anymore. They get overharvested because people are greedy/ignorant enough to assume there are just more fish, perhaps an endless supply to support whoever wants to come out and feed their family.


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## buckseye

I pulled this off another site:

Hopefully I can answer a few questions about walleye size and spawning with some facts about walleye biology in North Dakota. The following few paragraphs are relevant for the larger fisheries, especially the Missouri River System and Devils Lake. In the case of the states smaller water bodies, walleye populations are more reliant on stocking efforts (due to limited quality habitat) thus the impacts of harvest on spawning size fish is somewhat inapplicable.

Female walleye mature and begin spawning when they are about 16 or 17 inches in North Dakota. In 15 years of working with spawning walleye, I have seen only a handful of mature female walleye less than 17 inches on Lake Sakakawea, and not many between 17 and 20 inches. Most of the mature female walleye we catch are over 20 inches. So, for argument's sake, all female walleye will be sexually mature by the time they are 20 inches. Thus, all female walleye over 20 inches have the potential to be important to natural reproduction. The problem lies in the identification of sex. Between 20 and 25 inches, we find both males and females and they cannot be identified by any exterior markings. However, most of the fish over 25 inches are females. So if you want to release a fish 20-25 inches, the odds are 50:50 that it is a female, greater than 25 inches the odds are better than 75% (and probably closer to 90%) that it is a female.

A recent study in Ohio found that there was no difference in the survival of walleye embryo's based on size (i.e. eggs from both large and small walleye had similar fertility). Walleye fecundity is a measure of how many eggs a fish produces. For most fish species this number is a function of size and ranges from 50,000 for small walleye to over 150,000 for the larger walleye. Add these two facts together and you see that in any given year, the larger females have the potential to produce more offspring than a smaller female. To get the 'big' picture we also have to understand mortality rates. The odds of a 20-25 inch walleye living another year (or perhaps 5 more years) are a lot better than the odds of a 25 inch walleye living another year. Therefore the 20-25 inch walleye will spawn numerous times, giving them more long term reproductive 'potential' than the larger walleye. The bottom line is that female walleye are equally important, regardless of size. The question then becomes "How many females are necessary to produce a good year class?"

Simple math may shed some light on this: 1,000 average-sized females X 100,000 eggs/female = 100 million eggs X 10% hatching (conservative estimate) = 10 million walleye fry. This might produce a good year class in Lake Sakakawea. We have conducted two population estimates (based on tagging studies) of mature walleye (those > 14 inches) in Lake Sakakawea and both estimates were approximately 1 million mature walleye. Total mortality estimates for these mature walleye is about 50%. In other words, about 500,000 walleye are either harvested by anglers or die naturally in a given year (these are replaced by upcoming year classes each year) while another 500,000 survive for another year. The sex ratio favors males 2 to 1 for mature walleye so that leaves approximately 167,000 females, having the potential to produce 16.7 billion eggs or about 1.67 billion walleye fry (10% survival). If 10% (conservative estimate) of these live to be fingerlings, then we could have 167 million fingerlings. We know it takes dramatically fewer to establish a year class if the conditions are right. Bottomline - it is logical to assume that there are ample eggs being laid every spring to maintain the walleye population. Predation, competition, food abundance, environmental conditions and habitat (especially in recent years with all the water issues) are the major controlling factors for the walleye population in Lake Sakakawea. Rest assured that the North Dakota Game and Fish Department will recommend more restrictive regulations if angler harvest becomes excessive.

Here are some more interesting facts from the current walleye tagging study and creel surveys on Lake Sakakawea: Angler harvest rate is similar for all sizes of walleye; the release rate for walleye greater than 25 inches is 35%, which is approximately 2X higher than for walleye between 14 and 25 inches; very few walleye less than 14 inches are harvested; and approximately 25% of the larger walleye released are caught again by another angler.

One last consideration - anglers should consider fish consumption advisories when keeping fish for eating. Mercury biomagnifies in fish, meaning the older (i.e. larger) they get the more mercury they contain. This is probably what should determine how many large walleye you keep and eat, especially if small children or expecting mothers are eating them. The North Dakota Department of Health publishes fish consumption advisories and all anglers should be aware of these advisories.

In summary, released larger walleye have a pretty good chance (25%) of being caught again by another angler but usually do not improve the overall reproductive potential. I hope this answers some of the basic questions regarding 'big' fish harvest. The North Dakota Game and Fish Department has and will continue to monitor our fisheries to ensure their long-term well being.

Jeff Hendrickson

North Dakota Game and Fish Department 
North Central District Fisheries Supervisor 
406 Dakota Ave 
Riverdale, ND 58565 
701-654-7475 ext 22 
[email protected]


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## Madison

USAlx50 said:


> How many of you have caught a trophy musky? Its an awesome experience that I spend insane amounts of money and time to accomplish.
> 
> MN is the best musky fishing state in the country because of its catch and release.
> 
> .


Right on!!

A trophy class skee is my eyes in anything bigger than 45" and I have numerous in that range. I garuntee anyone that has the chance to properly hold one these fine fish will be hooked for life.

USA- Keep it coming man, we need more Musky Nuts in ND!!


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## tlowes

I have been fortunate enough to catch a few (not nearly enough) large muskies. It's an experience you never forget. I replay the catches over and over in my mind. If people kept these fish every time they were caught, countless others would not have the opportunity to catch the fish of a lifetime. I love eating fish and I keep smaller pike and walleye, but there is no reason to kill a trophy. Replicas look as good as mounts and don't cost any more. Keep the smaller ones and let the big ones get bigger!!


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## remakeat50

Madison said:


> Is catch and release some kind of Peta trick or what, you catch fish and eat them not wound them and throw them back.


Walleyes, perch and other panfish:

-Catch fish and eat them, yes.

Muskies and Big Pike:

-Wound them, NO. Eat them, No. 
-Catch and Photo and Release, Yes.

Knowing how to handle a big fish is another topic that we need to educate people on.. education on proper support of the fish's body if going for a horizontal pose. Never want to handle a big fish by its gills and hang it vertically.. Never want to practice CTR on big fish (CTR= Catch Torture and Release)[/quote]

Serious question here? on NOT wounding the big fish; you said never handle by the gills and never hang vertically; is there more? What about netting? I am just getting back into the game after many years, could use some advise on proper handling.


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## Fossilman

"Quote"Wow.... Some people on here are funny. Do you really fish to feed your family? Good one, I bet you save a bunch of money by doing that instead of going to the grocery store"Quote"

Don't talk about someone unless you have walked the walk!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## USAlx50

:roll: You may be right, I guess I and most other people could probably feed our families better by spending time at work making money instead of time on the lake/river spending money...


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## Fossilman

Didn't mean it that way,It's just that I know alot of people that do feed their families with the fish and deer they bring home...........There still are poor people that do live in North Dakota too........
I know,because I do give alot of my catch to them,it helps them out and cuts the food bill down for them............
I can point out many people that can only afford gas for their cars or trucks,just once a month,can't buy steak,but can bearly buy burger......
The needy like to hunt and fish,just as much as you and I,it hurts to see them stuggle like that!
If some people realized how lucky they were,to having the toy's that are out there,it would be a better world for all of us.
I've seen the broken fishing poles,riding a bike(peddle) to go fishing(couldn't pay for gas)..........They use what it takes to go............
So the preaching about C&R does touch a nerve with me.
See-ing this does make a guy think about his own life and try to help others out when they need it.
If people on here think I'm giving someone grief on here,I do apoligize,it wasn't meant to be..........
I've worked with and around poor people all my life,it just anger's me to see a person trying to take a step forward and get shoved back three step's...........


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## USAlx50

You got me there. I eat a ton of fish every year. Walleyes, perch, crappies, sunfish.. I am never going to complain about someone taking home their catch. Its just that keeping muskies (and to a lesser degree trophy pike) doesn't make sense from any angle to me.


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## boondocks

I agree with you USAlx50!!!


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## Fossilman

We don't even have Muskie around here...............let alone trophy pike :roll:


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## boondocks

I wonder why-maybe cause everyone is eating them and don't give them a chance to grow-Take Canada for instance with strict size limits and in some cases catch and release only lakes and the quality fishery reflects that.Maybe if more people practiced catch and release instead of trying to feed their family(thats a good one) we wouldn't have to take trips to Canada for trophys.

PRACTICE CATCH AND RELEASE


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## Fossilman

Sounds like a couple of DIM WATTS in here,thats fine!!!!!!!!!!!!! Always a couple in every crowd..............Must be young pups too :eyeroll: :roll:


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## boondocks

Once again I didn't mean to hurt anyones feelings(it was probably just Fossilmans)-I'll work on my people skills and promoting catch and release.

PRACTICE CATCH AND RELEASE


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## Fossilman

Didn't hurt my feelings!!! Could give a hoot about what you say! But you must live in a sheltered world to not see the poor and hungry here in North Dakota!!!!!! That do rely on the hunting and fishing to survive.....
Good Day!!!!!!!!


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## boondocks

Fossilman said:


> But you must live in a sheltered world to not see the poor and hungry here in North Dakota!!!!!! That do rely on the hunting and fishing to survive.....
> Good Day!!!!!!!!


If I was living in the Stone Age, yeah I would say that I am living a sheltered life, but this is the 21 century buddy get with it.With all due respect -they rely on hunting and fishing to survive- I'm not buying that, not for a second.But if this really was the case I wouldn't have a problem with them taking thier daily limit,and then some. I'd also have to say they would be better off getting a job like the rest of us though.


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## Fossilman

:eyeroll: If you only knew,if you only knew :eyeroll: 
I'm done with this talk............... Must be a eastern city dude!!!!!!!


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## buckseye

boondocks some of the people fossilman is talking about worked many years. Their SS checks don't make ends meet so they do what they have to. Sorry to barge in.


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## boondocks

Fossilman if there are people out their that need hunting and fishing to survive I seriously feel for them and in no way meant for my - get a job comment - to offend them.My strong catch and release beleifs don't pertain to them either.No hard feelings. :beer:


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## Fossilman

:beer:


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## atec

I should really NOT feel guilty at all being what they call a meat fisherman . My wife and I always fish with the intent of bringing home a catch for the freezer . As far as the mercury and whatever the hell you say might be in those fish , I might guess McDonalds might feed you something worse . Gotta die of sump'n . Since we like to eat fish and would not even consider eating a fat oily flat tasting Pike over four pounds or 30" we catch 'n'release the big ones . Boy that was easy !! And how'bout this . I know a taxidermist that can make you an exact replica of that " Hog " as you call them , just from a photo and length/weight stats . So let's sum it up - 
(1) Catch ( take picture ) of big ones . Put back. They taste nasty.
(2) Catch & eat without feeling guilty . You're not the Only One . Save some for tommorow .
(3) Always consider conservation .

End of argument . I hope . :beer:


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