# Help



## Bigake (Jan 22, 2008)

Help please;

I'm new to bird dog training and need help. Recently got a 1 yr old setter off a plantation in Georgia. Dog has been worked some but needs more training.. Basically need to get him to "whoa" and "come". He does a pretty good job of it at home but today in the field he got really excited on the first bird he pointed and chased it a long way with me yelling for him to whoa and come,which he didn't for quiet some time..He hunted great but really didn't pay much attention to me. Killed 9 birds over him but need to get the commands more intact... How is the way for doing this.Really appreciate all replies.


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## fasenbuster (Jan 12, 2008)

I could write pages and so could others. I will say this, Only give one command at a time. And your dog could have been trained with an e collar or whistle?
Invest in some George Hickox or Scott Miller videos. They are worth there weight in gold for a new trianer.


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Amen. Get him back into the yard and train him according to a program.This is a really long post I made on another board. But with the questions about whoa, the collar and heel broached on here, maybe it takes a long post to expain it so everyone understands. Here goes.

WHOA!!

There are a lot of way's of teaching the command "Whoa" to a pointing dog. I don't like 
barrels, benches, planks, etc. I like teaching it on the ground where the dog makes his 
living, as part of his obedience program. I also have never liked the word "Whoa". It's a 
soft command and sounds too much like "No". I use "Stop" instead. It's sharp and not 
confused with any other command. I start a dog's obedience work along with their force 
program at anywhere from 6-10 months of age, it depends on each dog and his individual 
traits. Most dogs are ready by 8-10 months.

First, hopefully you'll elect to have an electric collar dog. That's how I'll address this 
post. Not only will it make your training faster, easier, and safer, but later on that collar 
will become and indispensable safety implement for that dog. With a collar you always 
have total control, be it in the field, woods, or city streets. You will need a regular 1" 
nylon or leather collar, a choke collar, a six foot lead, an electric collar, a 20' check cord, 
a heeling stick, and a portable whoa post.

Remember, the dog is just wearing the electric collar now, it is not to be used on him. My 
dog's wear a collar from about four months on. It means "Play Time" to them. They 
never go outside without the collar on. If you use a heeling stick, you won't need a choke 
collar. It doesn't make much difference one way or the other. Put the collar on the dog 
and attach the six foot lead to it. Command "Heel", pat your leg and give an easy tug on 
the leash and start walking. If the dog lag's behind, give it short tugs and pat your leg, 
commanding heel in a steady and even voice. Carry the heeling stick in your right hand. If 
the dog forges ahead, very gently tap his chest with the heeling stick, jerk back on the 
lead, and command heel. When you stop, pull back on the lead, tap the chest front with 
the heeling stick, and command "Stop". Start walking again and command "Heel". Each 
time you change direction, which should be often, command "Heel". It is at this point that 
you can introduce him to the whistle and teach him to stop to one blast and come to three 
blasts. Each time you give the verbal command, immediately follow it with the 
appropriate whistle command.

Keep up this regimen until when you stop, the dog automatically stops without any 
command. Now we'll halt him with "Stop", walk to the front of him commanding "Stop", 
stand there, and command "Here, Heel". Pat your left leg and give him a tug on the leash. 
As he comes in to you, use the heeling stick to guide him around to your left side so he 
comes in to your left side, turns, and stands there facing ahead at "Stop". Remember not 
to give extraneous commands to a dog. Once he's trained, he should perform that 
command to it's finish, until released from the command, or until given another 
command. As example, you shouldn't teach "Stay". A dog should "Stop", "Sit", "Heel", 
or lie down until released from those commands. Now command "Heel" and walk the 
dog for a while. "Stop" the dog and step to the front. Say nothing and gently tug on the 
lead. If the dog moves, push the heel stick toward his chest and command "No, Stop". 
When he'll do this, try walking circles around him, commanding "Stop" and gently 
pulling the lead in different directions. When he stays steady, command "Here, Heel" and 
finish him to your side.

When he performs these commands competently, it's time to work on distance. Now you 
attach your 20' check cord to him in place of the 6' lead. We may also use the portable 
whoa post here. Command the dog to "Stop" and walk out to the end of the check cord, 
turn and face the dog. Command "Here" only, not heel. When he's about half way to you, 
take a step toward him, pointing the heeling stick at his chest and commanding "Stop". If 
he keeps coming, don't hit him, command "No, Stop" more loudly and pick the dog up 
and place him back on the spot he was standing when originally commanded to stop. 
Now try it again and keep at it until the dog stops when commanded to do so. When he 
stops, walk circles around him gently tugging the check cord and commanding "Stop" at 
each tug. Command "Here, Heel" and finish the dog.

You will find a few dog's that are very defiant at this. That's where the portable whoa 
post comes in. If he refuses to stop, don't hurt or battle him, buy a 50', 1/4" check cord. 
Run the check cord from the collar to the whoa post and back to you. Attach the 20' 
check cord to the snap of the lead attached to the check cord. It's much easier to work 
this drill if you have an assistant. Humor me and let's say you do. The assistant then 
stands 20' behind the whoa post with the 50' check cord. Since you have an assistant, the 
check cord will not run through the whoa post. Call the dog to you commanding "Here". 
When half way to you, command "Stop". You assistant will not jerk the check cord, he'll 
simply tighten up on it, stopping the dog. You keep tension on the forward cord. Now you 
have him. Maybe. Some start to spin. If this happens, attach a collard around his stomach 
and the assistant's check cord to the flank collar. This stops all spinning. Work gradually 
in a circle around the whoa post alternately calling the dog to you and stopping him. The 
assistant stays on a straight line between you and the dog, walking the circle with you. 
The whoa post at this point is for reference only; it doesn't even really have to be there. 
When he is doing this drill perfectly, take off the 50' check cord and try him. If all goes 
well, proceed to the next step. If you don't have an assistant, the only difference is, you 
have to run both ropes yourself and the long rope now goes through the whoa post and 
back to you. It's hard, but with practice you'll get the hang of it. It's also something you 
won't have to do often, usually only once or twice and the dog will understand the drill.

When he is performing this to perfection, try just walking him and letting him range in 
front of you on the 20' check cord. When he's to the side or in front of you, command 
"Stop" and give a tug on the cord. Again, if he doesn't stop immediately, command more 
loudly "No Stop", grab the dog and pup him back where he was when first commanded to 
do so. You should not have trouble here. He should stop reliably. Keep working on him 
until he does.

When they're at this point, I begin force fetch. When they're finished with the manual 
force, I go back and collar break them, introducing the collar to all of the commands they 
now know. But let's say you're not going to force fetch your dog and the only two things 
you want to use the collar for are for "Here" and for "Stop". Great, that's strictly your 
choice. Find the comfort level of the dog with the collar. With a Tri Tronics Pro 100, 
most dog's work well at a level 2 or 3. Strap the collar to the dog but not too tightly. Put 
it on his neck up around the ears and tighten it so it's snug but not tight. It will slide down 
his neck and tighten itself. Stimulate him on two and watch him. If he shows no reaction, 
up the intensity. What you're looking for is a slight shrug of the head with no verbal yip. 
OK, we've found the intensity, now command "Heel", move forward, and stimulate the 
dog. Give a gently pull on the lead if you have to. When introducing the collar, only 
stimulate the dog about once per three commands. When he works and tries to beat the 
"Heel" stimulation, move to "Here". The electric collar is all about sensibility and timing. 
Command "Here" and stimulate the dog if he doesn't instantly move toward you. 
Always give the dog a chance to win and beat the correction. Now introduce "Stop". The 
dog has to learn that the collar means multiple things, no just "Stop", "Here", or "Heel". 
The "Stop" command will give you the most trouble. The dog has been taught "Here" and 
"Heel" solidly so his first instinct will be to get to your side to escape correction. If you 
try teaching "Stop" first, the dog will many times freeze and not want to obey the other 
commands. He thinks he's safe in a stationary stance. I like to teach "Here" and "Heel" 
first because they're driving commands and teach the dog to move with the collar. When 
he understand these three commands, work him at different intensities, sometimes one, 
sometimes 3 or maybe 4. Never make him yip but make him uncomfortable to he learns 
to work at different intensity levels. This is very important in the force fetch program so 
he won't freeze up on "Fetch".

Usually this is when someone asks "Do you like continuous stimulation or a nick?" 90 % 
of the time I use the "nick", but on whoa and to prevent creeping, I'll use continuous low 
level. I think you get more out of a dog by using a higher nick than a low and nagging 
continuous. I believe they're a lot like a person; they hate nagging and would prefer to 
just get the lesson over with. Nagging is what creates a sour dog.

Never take the check cord off during collar breaking. You never want to give the dog 
and opportunity to run away or go out of control. Now walk him letting him range to the 
sides or front and stop him. If he doesn't immediately stop, stimulate him. Always 
challenge the dog. When you take him back to the house or truck, command stop at the 
door or tail gate of the truck and allow no movement until we release him. Never be in a 
hurry to advance to another step of training until the dog has mastered the phase he's in. 
Never miss an opportunity to train and reinforce. You can do it in the house and well as 
the yard. Use distractions as well to your advantage. Children, other dog's , people; use 
them all to your benefit. Now he's ready to start in the field on birds but he'll still wear 
the check cord until he's steady to flush and shot, even if it's only 10' long. We want and 
demand that control. At this point he's ready to start steadying on birds if you're not 
going to force him.
_________________
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.


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