# How old is old enough?-Pistols



## ProtectionAgainstElements (Oct 2, 2005)

*Have a person (12-16) in the woods with a .40pistol or higher? Safely*​
Yes-agree330.00%No-disagree770.00%


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## ProtectionAgainstElements (Oct 2, 2005)

*Hello,
I will not tell you how old I am, but what do you think a youger guy or gal that carries a weapom into the woods? No depending on the laws of that state, just say it was legal for youth (12-16) to carry hanguns of a .40 caliber or higher in the woods. Would you let you son or daughter carry a lethal pistol higher than a .40 in the woods? Please tell me why or whynot they should carry the weapon. Say for example they got 100% on Hunter Safety and practiced good safety all the time with firearms and the dad carries a pistol in the woods should a teenager also?

This is a situation that I face right now my dad just can't agree with me carrying a lethal pistol around. He always tells me how responisble I am I hunt with a 12ga. shotgun all the time also for Deer Hunting I use a 30-06. He says I am very safe and responsible all the time and I debate him that I should carry a pistol for protection of course for wolves and bears. He thinks I should not have one until I'm older. Meaning if I get attacked then it would be to late...so please share your opinions. Would you let your son or daughter carry a secondary weapon with them into the woods? Thanks/-Ryan*


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

There are only three times I carry a handgun into the woods with me. One is if I am actually hunting with a hand gun. Second is if I know I'm in snake infested country I probable will carry a small pistol loaded with snake shot. Third is if I'm camping or fishing and not carrying a long gun at all. If you have a shotgun or 30-06 with you then you have the best defense already in your hands for predators both two and four legged. Answer to your poll is ....no.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I agree with Gohon, listen to and obey your father, you will be amazed to find out how smart he is someday.


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## ProtectionAgainstElements (Oct 2, 2005)

(laughing) Thanks alot guys. Yeah he is older and wiser than I am. :beer:


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## wyocarp (Jul 29, 2005)

My son is 13. He went bear hunting with me this past spring and this fall. I wouldn't have taken him with me unless he had a pistol on him. One of the area's we hunt in is in a grizzly recovery area. It isn't an age thing though. I don't care how old you are. I want to know if you understand the importance of gun safety. You said something about the caliber of the gun. What difference does it make what caliber you carry. They are all lethal. I have a nephew that was killed with a .22. My son and I go out shooting a lot and I hope that he doesn't shoot me someday. But then again, I don't trust anyone. I am constantly making sure the gun isn't pointed my way. Any guns around camp, I check them to make sure there wasn't a round loaded in the chamber during an exciting moment and then never taken out. Would I have a problem with you having a gun? I don't know. I'd be willing to work with it though. You could bet that I would keep an eye on you though. My son casts and reloads all of his own ammo. I kept an eye on him for a while, but he knows what to do and he has seen some pistols that were fired with the wrong loads (I think that helps). He has also taken a hunters safety course. I'm not a big fan of them, but I think some of the videos of possible scenarios where people have gotton shot were helpful. MY VOTE IS a YES.


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## wyocarp (Jul 29, 2005)

I would be curious what is making the people vote "No" to this. I hope it isn't because people are getting caught up in the "lethal caliber" thing.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

I would say NO because it is easier to make a mistake with a handgun than it is with a longarm IMOP. Wait till yer 19 or when ever yer paps says so. You will be old enought for a long time trust me!!


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## wyocarp (Jul 29, 2005)

Bore, I am wondering why it wouldn't be better to teach, train, and mentor your young son instead of just sending him out when he is 19. It's kind of like driving. My daughter wants to drive, but I have found out that the first thing she does is turn on the radio when she gets behind the wheel. I wouldn't know that if I hadn't let her drive with me in the vehicle instead of just sending her out at the age of 19. Instead of waiting longer for these kinds of things, I think we need to start mentoring while they are younger. One of my daughter's friends here in Laramie looked down to adjust the radio while she was driving this summer and rolled her car twice. Another of her friends here in Laramie reached down to get a cd off the floor and all but killed a woman on a bicycle this summer. She has had one of her legs amputated and might loose the other and has little use of one side of her body. Since she has driven with me in the car, I know that this is an area that could create problems for her. I wouldn't know it if I just said, "You are 19, now you can drive." Yes, it takes a little more time and effort being a parent but I think the outcome is much better. We have a lazy society and we are paying for that as a society. I SAY TEACH THEM AND WE WILL ALL BENEFIT. Not that we won't see mistakes, but we will have fewer ones.

One thing that I have passed along to my son that I got from a training course by the police department in Pueblo was that three things have to happen to shot someone. They are:

1) There must be a bullet in the chamber/firing position.
2) The firing mechanism must be cycled.
3) The muzzle must be pointed at the object/person shot.

That is the beginning point of my teaching youth. By paying attention to these items and constantly checking them, most if not all accidents should be avoided. My nephew was shot because he and his friend were curious and didn't know how to handle guns properly.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

wyocarp said:


> I would be curious what is making the people vote "No" to this. I hope it isn't because people are getting caught up in the "lethal caliber" thing.


Probably the fact that those people wouldn't even carry a handgun for hunting themselves. Many think it is an inadequate tool for hunting big game. I'll not argue with them I'll just keep eating my venison.



> I would say NO because it is easier to make a mistake with a handgun than it is with a longarm IMOP.


*Is it?* Since a handgun is a short range weapon you are more likely to properly identify your target. As long as it is kept in a good holster until it is needed there is less chance of a muzzle swinging in someones direction. Both make it safer for other hunters. I would submit that revolvers may be a bit safer. A single action requires pulling the hammer back before fireing. It is probably less likely that the hammer will be left in the cocked position than the safety on a rifle left off. Double actions have a longer heavier trigger pull making inadvertant pulling of the trigger less likely. A semi auto has very limited application in the hunting field particularly with big game. Few are suited or legal. There are many kids in action shooting sports that are safer with a handgun than a lot of guys are with a rifle. With proper supervision I wouldn't have a problem with it. But I am not his dad and he has his reasons and final say.


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## ProtectionAgainstElements (Oct 2, 2005)

Thankyou all for replying your thoughts on this topic my Dad and I read over the topic we are now buying a .45 possibly an EA Witness any of you heard of it ? Thank you all for your time.

A great thing about hunting is that it can bring a Father/Son/Daughter relationship closer together.


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## wyocarp (Jul 29, 2005)

Dakotashooter, I think you make a good arguement. I am not fond of hunting with others because many are careless even when using a rifle. Guys do not adequately identify game before they shoot. I took a couple of guys bear hunting this fall. One of them told me over the radio that he spotted a bear. I rushed to his position to find out he was looking at a moose too far away to shot with anything less than a BMG. I think your "short range" comment was very valid, as is the holster thing. I model to my son that my pistols stay in my holster almost all the time, and if his is in his holster, I know that he isn't going to stumble shoot me while the muzzle of his rifle is going all over the place.

Great comments.



> Since a handgun is a short range weapon you are more likely to properly identify your target. As long as it is kept in a good holster until it is needed there is less chance of a muzzle swinging in someones direction. Both make it safer for other hunters. I would submit that revolvers may be a bit safer. A single action requires pulling the hammer back before fireing. It is probably less likely that the hammer will be left in the cocked position than the safety on a rifle left off. Double actions have a longer heavier trigger pull making inadvertant pulling of the trigger less likely. A semi auto has very limited application in the hunting field particularly with big game. Few are suited or legal. There are many kids in action shooting sports that are safer with a handgun than a lot of guys are with a rifle. With proper supervision I wouldn't have a problem with it. But I am not his dad and he has his reasons and final say.


[/quote]


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

To me, age has absolutely nothing to do with it. There are a lot of adults who I wouldn't trust with a gun. And there are a lot of kids. I've been carrying a handgun in the woods during deer season since I was very very young. I was also mature and safe enough. It's a case by case thing. Some people just aren't ready for the extra responsibility of another firearm, some are.


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer (Feb 22, 2005)

dlip,
BINGO!!! :beer:


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## sharpshooter_boss (Oct 26, 2005)

Good answer Dlip. I agree with you 100%. I also believe that it has a lot to do with the country you're hunting in, the company that you are hunting with, and the maturity level and training. I think the biggest issue, period, is that with ANY GUN, the shorter it is, the easier it is to have an accidental shooting to yourself or others. Personally, I used to take one deer hunting, but I never had an even remote chance of using it because of distances. So I quit taking it. Elements, I see that you are in Wisconsin, same as me. The pistol you are looking at buying, the EAA Witness, is illigal to use for hunting in Wisconsin. The barrel must meet or exceed 5 1/2 inches and you must be 18 years old to even hold it for someone else. Just thought I'ld save you some headache before you bought it and found out you couldn't use it.


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## wyocarp (Jul 29, 2005)

Alaskan Brown Bear Killer said:


> He that does NOTHING makes NO errors!


Alakan, I think a correction is in order. "The only error the one makes who does nothing is doing nothing."

With that philosophy in mind. Keep the kid home, locked in his room, with nothing that can harm himself or others until he is 18 and then he will be safe to be around others.


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## sharpshooter_boss (Oct 26, 2005)

"With that philosophy in mind. Keep the kid home, locked in his room, with nothing that can harm himself or others until he is 18 and then he will be safe to be around others"

haha, my parents took that apraoch, but I'm willing to bet there are some people from my youth who would say it didn't work! 

I forgot to mention that the EAA Witness full size has a 4 1/2 inch barrel. If you want to get an EAA Witness to hunt with, there is a Witness Hunter model with a 6 inch barrel. However, it only comes in 45 acp and 10mm.


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## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

This is a really dumb argument. It misses the point.

Saying that all 12-16 year-olds are capable and responsible enough to handle and own a firearm is like saying all adults are. Putting an arbitrary age on it is stupid, but it's the best system we got.

Now, if we're talking about me, I shot my first pistol at age 12. Highly illegal, but I wasn't a dumbass. At the same age, I fired my first .45. Since then, I've never had an accidental discharge or a reprimand on the range. Why? Because I'm not a dumbass.

The key thing is, you're okay to shoot...so long as you're not a dumbass. But there ain't no blood test to see if you are.


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

When I was your age, KY had a big coyote problem (we still do), and a few bears scattered through the state. My dad wouldnt let me go hunting unless I was packing. It didn't matter what I was hunting, when I went out the door there was a minumum of a .38 on my hip and usually something heavier. I quess that is where my love for the .45 started, you ever seen a coyote shot with a 200 grain Speer gold dot? It messes them up pretty good!'

So my answer to your question is yes, if you were my son, and you were a safe hunter, you would be packing. If you are safe enough to carry a 12 ga. you are safe enough to handle a .40 or whatever it is you want to carry.

:sniper:


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## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

*looks at the other guy's sig* :withstupid:

9mm is for women and pansies? And .45 is the only way to go? Tell ya what, either way, you hit the MF in the head, and he's gonna learn a thing or two about bullet expansion. Please...don't try and make up for crappy shooting with a bigger bullet.[/quote]


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

I don't make up for crappy shooting with the .45, I can outshoot everyone I know with my 1911's versus their 9mms. Head shots? Yes 9mm will work, but for body shots, well thats a different story!


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## 94silverado (Oct 16, 2005)

Anybody can shoot what their comfortable with maybe Remington 7400 Shot the .45 his whole life and leanred to love it and doesn't want to part with it. My grampa learned with the .45 in the army and refused to shoot any other handgun. Its what you learn with. Each is to his own. I myself like the .45 and the SW.40.


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

S&W 40 is good too, so is the .357 and .44 mag, but my favorite is the .45


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## blackace (Jul 15, 2004)

im very partial to the .45 for 2 reasons

1. its tried and true. Been around for somthing like 90 years and has been an old standby

2. the hertiage, what got our boys though WW1 WW2 and veitnam, not to mention the colt 1911 is as american as apple pie


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## Dave_w (May 25, 2005)

You know, I just revisited the .45 today, and I really do like it, even though I'm more for the .32-.38-.38 Special-.38+P lineup for defensive pistols. Just the feel of shooting a good .45, you know? The aesthetics of it. The way the recoil just rolls through your arm, the big, heavy, flat, thudding-pop...

For practical purposes, yes, I'll keep my .38+P. But I'll always have a .45.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

*Zero to 20 year old kids, my answer is NO if its illegal!

If a parent allows a child to carry any firearm illegally, then that child will learn nothing about the law!

Any caliber or firearm is lethal, has nothing to do with its size!

In order to carry a hand gun during big game hunting season, it needs to be a legal cartridge for the game you are hunting in most states.

I am curious what state allows the 40 S&W for big game hunting? As a minimum the only 40 caliber handgun cartridge allowed in most states is the 10mm Auto. The 45 ACP isn't legal in all states for big game hunting because it doesn't have the energy.

OneShotOneKill*


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

KY Law for legal calibers reads, ANY CENTERFIRE CARTRIDGE.

I know that is foolish but yes you could hunt deer with a .17 Rem or a .25 ACP.


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## Spyider (Nov 11, 2005)

I believe if the person is 16 or up and is VERY responsible and has been shooting for a VERY long time, then its fine to carry a pistol.



blackace said:


> im very partial to the .45 for 2 reasons
> 1. its tried and true. Been around for somthing like 90 years and has been an old standby
> 
> 2. the hertiage, what got our boys though WW1 WW2 and veitnam, not to mention the colt 1911 is as american as apple pie


.45 ACP is still used today in our military. It is the 1911 and SOCOM. The 1911 I believe is in few numbers but is used by a certain group of the Marines and the Seals.


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## SODSUCKER (Mar 24, 2005)

Dlip hit the nail on the head. 
Listen to your dad, he is in a better position to determine if you are mature enough to handle a pistol in the field or not. I would bet if you are able to be mature enough to obey your dad without a fuss he will be more confident in you, and that will mean more privilages for you in the future. Remember trust is lost very easily, but is a hard thing to get back.


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## Chestnut (Aug 9, 2006)

> I am curious what state allows the 40 S&W for big game hunting? As a minimum the only 40 caliber handgun cartridge allowed in most states is the 10mm Auto. The 45 ACP isn't legal in all states for big game hunting because it doesn't have the energy.
> 
> OneShotOneKill[/b]


In Washington state the new law for handguns is .24 caliber (6mm) and 4" barrel. But a few years back it was 500ft/lbs of energy at 100 yards for deer, bear, cougar, bighorn sheep and mountain goats, and 750 ft/lbs of energy for elk and moose. You had to call to find out which cartriges were acceptable, but 9mm, .40, .357, and .45 were all specifically forbidden


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## sharpshooter_boss (Oct 26, 2005)

Wisconsin law says that deer and bear may be hunted with a handgun chambered in a centerfire cartridge .22 or larger, providing that the barrel measures a minimum of 5 1/5 inches from the tip of the barrel to the firing pin with a closed action.


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