# Average Joe is out of hunting



## tallpaulr (Jan 7, 2009)

I just recieved my Nov. issue and when I saw the cover my heart sank and my temp went up. I actually have been looking for these pics and story since last year. I live near where this buck was taken and thought people should know how this whole thing works. What the article does not say is that several area people knew of this buck and in fact there where pics taken of it before season in someones back yard. Thats amazing, however the average joe had NO CHANCE at it because we don't have a ton of money to spend on some guy (who is not all that well liked and has been suspected of poaching) who graps up as much hunting land as he can. Land that used to be avalible for us local fokes just to ask and get permission. NO MORE OF THAT. I think that if Mark is going to celebrate this buck he should mention how much he spent and how many other people he screwed over to get to hunt there. Really what is hunting coming to, why should some writer with money get to go and shoot high quality deer while the rest of us dream and may never get a chance. It is total Crap if you ask me and not much of a sportsman who steals hunting away from locals through this pay hunting, what is a guy supposed to tell his kids "save your money and mabye one day you'll have enough to shoot quality deer." Doesn't that seem sad? So yes, big buck but i am tired of people who spend a bunch of cash to shoot big deer getting glory, why not the simple farmers etc who go out hunting for years to get a quality deer by their home? Oh yeah, they don't get a chance cuz some jerk comes in and pays a bunch to shoot it. What do you guys think. should hunting big guys be for those with the big bucks in there wallet or should they tell the full story in our favorite hunting magazines.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

November issue of what?

I don't agree with pay to play hunting either.

You mentioned the "simple farmers" not getting a chance to shoot the big guy because some guy comes in and leases everything up taking away their opportunity. Well, hate to break it to ya, but if the farmers weren't so greedy and didn't lease their property to said rich guy, this wouldn't be an issue. Greedy landowners are part of the problem here.


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## tallpaulr (Jan 7, 2009)

it all depends on how you look at it. Some people, ie farmers and ranchers are not making lots of money and if they do not hunt they will not hesitate to pick up some bucks. I guy near us had somone come up and offer him 14 thousand to lease his hunting for a year. Thats his taxes, and from a farmer stand point how does one turn that down. Farmers are just trying to make it to. My family has some land and we hunt it and have friends come out but never charge, however most of our neighbors have sold out to a local guy who desided to be a guide. its rough to try to get on some deer ground anymore.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ill agree with you that ranchers are having a tough time more years than not. But farmers that know what their doing and "farm smartly" are NOT on dire times. If you know what your doing, there's money in it. Especially with.......well, we wont get into that.

Greed has a lot to do with the pay to play hunting style. Both from the leasee and the leaser.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I don't think you can tell a landowner they can't outfit their own land, however third party leasing should be illegal. The game is property of the state and taxpayers and a few shouldn't be able to whore out a resource that belongs to everyone. I can see where a person would want a guide but they should have to freelance like almost everyone else. Just like a fishing guide.

If a landowner chooses to outfit his/her land that land is no longer used solely for production and therefore the land should be subject to commercial taxations and the acreage should no longer be eligible for subsidies, disaster payments, or any other government aid. The farmstead and any non ag equipment should also be taxed like any other commercial business. The subsidies and other payments are intended to be a two way street and once the land is used for any other purpose it is double dipping and all the taxpayers, whether they hunt or not are getting robbed.

If this system was in place only serious outfitters would be in business and there would be less need for wildlife groups and the state to take land out of production for habitat.

There should also be some more protections in place to remove liability from land owners. It is bizaare that a landowner is liable if a hunter falls in a hole or shoots his buddy.

If more freelance hunters spent their time talking to their elected reps and less time whining about nr's this problem could be solved. It needs to happen soon, the clock is ticking.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

There is alot of public land over there. And if people would not lease the land to them they would not have it. So the poor farmer thing is bs. Sorry but mark did not screw anyone over by getting that deer. And they do more for the habitat over there in a month than the average joe does in a year. And you cant tell me that does not help the surrounding area. If these animals are property of the state who do i talk to about the deer that hit my truck. They should take responsibility for there property and fix what it broke. Just sounds like someone that is jealous of the big deer.


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

Again, November issue of What????????


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

zogman said:


> Again, November issue of What????????


Also.....what buck and who is Mark????


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## Lil Sand Bay (Feb 2, 2005)

Private preserves,$$$, Selective breeding, $$$, high fence shooting,$$$. etc. by now should have started to take some of the "value" out of the meaningless need for the "big one" in our hunting experiences.
I'm sticking with the MT FIRST DEER poster in the Open Forum. He know what a trophy is, I just hope he always will.


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## feathersandpoo (Oct 23, 2009)

KEN W said:


> zogman said:
> 
> 
> > Again, November issue of What????????
> ...


X2


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## trippersrookieyear (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm guessing Dakota Country. The cover photo is a big buck and there is a article about the fair chase initiative in NoDak.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

no its north american hunter or north american whitetail cant remember which one i heard.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Sad thing is that when ever anyone hears of a 200" deer.......the TV guys come a running.

It is a sad fact of deer hunting now a days. Too much focus on inches instead of memories.

Just like with waterfowl.....bands and limits. People don't concentrate on memories.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Chuck Smith said:


> Sad thing is that when ever anyone hears of a 200" deer.......the TV guys come a running.
> 
> It is a sad fact of deer hunting now a days. Too much focus on inches instead of memories.


Its more about getting name recognition and $$$ in "the biz".

Im all about "inches" when it comes to bucks. But I have no desire to become famous because I shot a xxx inch buck. Ill also NEVER pay (beyond license cost, gas, gear, etc) to shoot a large buck.

Theres nothing wrong with being a trophy hunter. Its what you do with that trophy. Some will simply hang it on the wall and admire it for years, remember the day they harvested it. Others will try to capitalize on it and "whore" out it, themselves, and anything else they can in the interest of becoming famous and making a few dollars.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> Theres nothing wrong with being a trophy hunter. Its what you do with that trophy. Some will simply hang it on the wall and admire it for years, remember the day they harvested it. Others will try to capitalize on it and "whore" out it, themselves, and anything else they can in the interest of becoming famous and making a few dollars


 :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:

Some people shooting a doe is a trophy!
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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Ill agree with you there, what constitutes a trophy is different for each and every one of us.

For the sake of my point, trophy means large rack. :wink:

There are only two drawbacks to "trophy hunting" in my opinion, both big ones.

One is the fact that general herd management can fall by the wayside, people stop shooting does in pursuit of the large buck.

The other (and a HUGE one), is trophy hunting is a LEADING CAUSE of the pay to play mentality and practice. Sadly.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

hunting for "TROPHY" deer will (is)ruining hunting as we know it. kids are not seeing hunting for what it should be. a father should NOT tell their child not to shoot that small buck and hold out for bigger. i'm seeing way less comraderie hunting latley instead of everyone getting together and just having a ball. i'm as guilty as the next guy though. thats why i bought my own little piece of heaven and now pretty much hunt alone now. i've shot lots of trophy sized bucks and could care less if anybody ever see's them. people need to understand that a 1.5 year old buck is no smarter than a 1.5 doe. and a 6.5 doe is every bit as smart as a 6.5 buck. just try to go out on purpose and shoot an old doe :wink:


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## HARRY2 (Jul 26, 2004)

I was out there for the meat, if i get a nice buck that is just a bonus. It just get worse every year, i gave it up this year and did not even go. The days of looking for a small piece of land to hunt that hundreds of idiots have not driven through in the last hour are over for me. Now i am after the yotes so i can still get out there and enjoy it while everyone else is at home where its warm.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

hope everyone keeps on believing this whining and i get to keep hunting on the great public land that i hardly see another person on. Must be because every one thinks that the average joe is out hunting. Just took my 4 year old out today and shot a limit of pheasants and a doe this evening. Shot the doe because i already got my big public land buck. saw 1 other truck today and that is 3 miles from town.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

KurtR said:


> If these animals are property of the state who do i talk to about the deer that hit my truck. They should take responsibility for there property and fix what it broke. Just sounds like someone that is jealous of the big deer.


Wow Kurt you really don't have a clue. That is a huge stretch. Please look up public domain and act of God in the law books sometime.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

sarcasim is hard to get from the net, but get tired of people whining that they can find any where to hunt and think that they deserve to go on some ones land. Dont see these people getting there crops ruined by the wildlife. Maybe go out and ask in july and offer a little help around the place and there would be some where to go. There is alot of great public land around here guess i am just lucky to be able to go walk for a hour with my 4 year old and shoot a limit of pheasants and then a deer a few hours latter.


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## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

KurtR said:


> sarcasim is hard to get from the net, but get tired of people whining that they can find any where to hunt and think that they deserve to go on some ones land. Dont see these people getting there crops ruined by the wildlife. Maybe go out and ask in july and offer a little help around the place and there would be some where to go. There is alot of great public land around here guess i am just lucky to be able to go walk for a hour with my 4 year old and shoot a limit of pheasants and then a deer a few hours latter.


I can understand the Kurt. Getting a kid out hunting with no pressure around you is nice.

What does bother me is when a farmer collects for deer depredation. Then doesn't allow anyone to hunt and then in turn cries about depredation and the circle continues. When you hear complaints about crop damage and then told you can't hunt makes me scratch my head. Some just don't want a solution.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

they dont let people shoot does they get no help in this area. wardens decide if they get help or not here. if they wont let people at least shoot does then no help i say. we have a week after reg season where all our tags turn to does so that is a good time to thin down the population.


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## viking (Nov 18, 2008)

The hunting problem is everybody's fault. It has turned into a business, TV shows and advertisements, are a part of it too. I have been on both sides of the fence. The F/R that posts his land then complains about the damage done and wants to be paid for damages is an azz hole.

Before all the government programs (welfare) the farmer was on his own so to speak. He was the only guy that had to ask "what will you give me" for his product. Now the rancher is a little different. I don't think they are subsidized like grain farmers. I can understand why some may charge, he has something the town people want. Now he can say "what's it worth".

We did it to ourselves. Greed, bragging rights are the two biggest faults in my opinion. Everybody wants to go to the local bar and have everybody listen to their story.

Years ago I was heavily involved with Farm Bureau. I was at a state resolutions meeting. This guy stood up and wanted land owners to be able to get a license to shoot deer for doing damages to their hay bales and such, kind of like gophers and other varmints. I asked why not just let hunters do it for them. Needless to say that was the end of it.

If the farmer and rancher got a price that stayed in check with inflation he might not charge or lease is property out to pay the bills. Thank the dems for socialized farming programs. People complain if they pay 2 bucks for a loaf of bread, but think nothing of going to any ball game 3 hours away, when it comes to entertainment, money is not an object.


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## kingcanada (Sep 19, 2009)

i usually don't spend time in this part of the forum, but this caught my eye. many of my sentiments are already covered here. the concept of "bribing" game away from your fellow countrymen is crap and needs to stop. the original post here sounds familiar. southwest, guy who gobbles up land, not liked, suspected poacher. i think i know who we are talking about. maybe not, but it describes a certain individual who got busted for shooting bald eagles.
in the area i am thinking of, the local landowners have begun to revolt against this trend and my hat is off to them. if you want permission to hunt they will turn you down if you have anything to do with a local hunting lodge or other commercial operation. client or otherwise. they are fed up with losing hunting access to their neighbor's land. what i saw in an add sums it up well: "hunting was meant to be enjoyed, not financed". i will say this boldly. when i ask for permission i respect a "yes", i respect a "no", i have no respect when i am measured by my financial status to determine my worthiness to set foot on their ground. i refuse to compromise my ethics. i will not be guilty on either side of that equation. here in wyoming there are deer on my parents property. we will never turn someone away because they don't have excess cash. i also refuse to pay an access fee, even if i can. it only encourages the bastardization of a noble pastime. i don't have the right to screw others out of their hunting. period. it's one thing to pay an outfitter/ guide for his skill, time, and equipment. it's another to pay because he bribed the game out from under you. this is why i never took up guiding goose hunts, the opportunity was there. my conscience told me that i would end up being responsible for that which i loathe. it has become a virus in the outfitting world. there once was a time that a guide was a guide because he was the absolute best at what he did. now it's becoming a matter of flashing cash and having a strong back and the willingness to work short hours to make a quick buck. eventually we will purge society of hunting all by ourselves if it continues. when we represent a nearly nonexistant part of society, what voice will we have? i am surprised game departments don't push to end the leasing of recreational rights, it's their future at risk too. fewer sportsmen means fewer dollars to support them.
speaking of dollars, those access fees leave less money for hunters to spend in the local economy. trips get shorter. more hunters just stay home and no money comes into the local economy. it's a bad deal for more than just hunters.


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## Riich (Nov 22, 2008)

I've found it so easy to be one of those guys that just stays home. Sure I enjoy hunting, but the hassle takes so much pleasure out of it. I can take it or I can leave it, and I'm finding out leaving it is a lot less stressful. Other hobbies can and do replace hunting. More and more people are starting to reach that same sentiment. I love to go for drives during deer rifle season and just glass hunters, it is actually quite entertaining. You guys go ahead and fight over the big ones. Beef is so much tastier, and cheaper. :beer:

Even though I may pop a doe once in a while. :rollin:


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## deacon (Sep 12, 2003)

Riich said:


> I've found it so easy to be one of those guys that just stays home. Sure I enjoy hunting, but the hassle takes so much pleasure out of it. I can take it or I can leave it, and I'm finding out leaving it is a lot less stressful. Other hobbies can and do replace hunting. More and more people are starting to reach that same sentiment. I love to go for drives during deer rifle season and just glass hunters, it is actually quite entertaining. You guys go ahead and fight over the big ones. Beef is so much tastier, and cheaper. :beer:
> 
> Even though I may pop a doe once in a while. :rollin:


Well said, golfing and fishing are just more enjoyable and relaxing. Oh yeah and can enjoy a beer while doing both. :beer:


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

the more lazy people we have like you two means the more land for me to hunt. any thing that involves a little work is a hassle to people now. its not like we will miss anything with the lazy people out of the sport not like they are out planting trees in the off season because it is to much of a hassle.


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## Riich (Nov 22, 2008)

Jeepers, Kurt, what does not hunting have to do with being lazy? I choose when I want to hunt, not because of being lazy or not, but whether I want to do it or not. I said I have other hobbies, and if I was lazy I wouldn't do them either.

Go plant some more trees, oh brilliant one.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

deacon said:


> Riich said:
> 
> 
> > I've found it so easy to be one of those guys that just stays home. Sure I enjoy hunting, but the hassle takes so much pleasure out of it.
> ...


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## zogman (Mar 20, 2002)

KurtR,

Please take your insults to a private message. You are trying to pick a fight here and it is not needed.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

my bad


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## ruger1 (Aug 16, 2006)

One of the main reasons I'm decreasing my time spent in the field and increasing my time spent on the water. A kid in a john boat with a 5 HP has the same chance at landing that 13# walleye as I do.

It helps that the fiance doesn't like the taste of venison. No reason for me to shoot them. I'll still go out back and stick an arrow in a nice doe and turn her into polish sausage. Then it's back to the river for me.


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