# Creatine?



## gooseboy (Sep 13, 2005)

Hey guys i started taking creatine a couple days ago and was wondering if anybody had any opinions on it. Are there any sideffects?


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

Creatine doesn't tone you, it gives you water weight.


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## gooseboy (Sep 13, 2005)

Im well aware of what it does thank you.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Hey Goose

I used to use creatine back in college during football season to complement weight gain methods with heavy lifting. It really does not do much for you unless you are extremely into weighlifting or need the quick recovery for sports involving multiple quick sprints. It is still a relatively new substance, and there is currently an enormous amount of misleading information concerning creatine loading, how it works and its side effects. My experience was that it did indeed contribute to water retention as was mentioned by dlip. I bulked up an extra 12 pounds in 3 months when I combined it with protein powder and carb loading. Here was a website that did a scientific stufy on it...

http://www.sportsci.org/traintech/creatine/rbk.html

Ryan

.


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## oklahomawatrfwlr (Jan 31, 2005)

gooseboy said:


> Im well aware of what it does thank you.


\

Then why ask what other people think if you know what it already does?
This is serioulsy been my personal opinion is that i don't respect anyone who is on it because they're looking for the quick fix when you can work hard like people who care about their health. I just think people are pansys if they take that stuff.


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## gooseboy (Sep 13, 2005)

I was just curious to see what people thought about it and im not looking for a quick fix because it doesnt work really quickly if i was looking for a quick fix i would go anerexic to loose weight or get on roids for muscle. And i know some poeple looking for a "quick fix" that could probably woop your a$$.


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

And so why exactly are you using creatine? My trainer was always 100% against creatine, and I agree with him about that. Taking creatine is just like eating tons of meat, so why not just eat like 20 lbs of steak?! I think that would be much more tasty! Or, you could always just cowboy up and do some strength and conditioning like the rest of us real athletes out there. When I was working with my trainer, I was on a very high-protein diet and drank protein shakes. Even with that my trainer monitored my every bodily function, he always made sure I was always safe and healthy-and that was just with increased protein intake. Do you realize how many so called "athletes" have died using creatine, because they are too stupid to increase their water intake?


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## DuckBuster (Mar 18, 2003)

The main side affect is, like Dlip said, increased water retention. Extra water does need to taken in. As far as RC's comment about "Coyboying up and doing some strength and conditioning" goes, All of the creatine in the world won't build muscle without working out. Creatine simply allows for a very slight increase in intensity in a work out which would, theoretically, lead to increased gains.

RC- How many so called athletes died because of creatine use? I can't seem to find any articles that blame creatine, specifically,for any deaths or list it as the specific cause of the dehydration that caused a death.....

Maybe it was the caffine in their coffee that caused the dehydration since caffine has diuretic properties to it?

Just curious.


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

the recovery time is a huge plus, i used to take it also when i played college football, if you lift more than 3-4 days a week it is a really good way to recover faster, other than that it really doesn't do much, once you stop lifting for a period of time the water weight you gained quickly shrinks and you are back to where you began. try a high protein diet or if you are really looking to gain muscle try androstenedione, it works well for gaining muscle, although most studies done on it say its bad for the body.


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## DuckBuster (Mar 18, 2003)

I'd go with the creatine long before I'd go with Andro....Andro is a testosterone precursor that has had extremely mixed results. It's never a good idea to mess with hormone levels unless you know exactly what you're doing.

If adding muscle is the goal, and you're not real concerned about waterweight gain, I'd look at creatine and hi protein diet. There are tons of articles out there about this subject.


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

Wrestlers-Billy Saylor of Campbell University; Joe LaRosa of University of Wisconsin, La Crosse; and Jeff Reese of University of Michigan -- collapsed during or after workouts to make weight for an upcoming match. Medical personnel were unable to revive them. No similar previous death is known to have happened in collegiate wrestling, though the practice of losing weight to qualify for weight classes is common.

These have all been argued over whether or not they were all using creatine, although Reese did have it in his system when the autopsy was performed. Think about the other high school and college athletes that just dropped dead from heart attacks during sporting events, it doesn't matter how many there are, _any_ is too many. I'm sure a lot of them were using creatine though, it was a decision they made, can't feel too sorry.

It's your body, do with it as you please...the only positive I've heard attributed to creatine is less brain damage in head injuries. But even with the head injuries I received in hockey and soccer and JROTC (don't ask), I wouldn't risk the rest of my body for a safe head. That is just my opinion though.


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## oklahomawatrfwlr (Jan 31, 2005)

gooseboy said:


> And i know some poeple looking for a "quick fix" that could probably woop your a$$.


Gooseboy have you ever seen me? no


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Who cares so a couple of people died. More people will die from alcohol or cigarettes in the time I type this. That is why I am so :******: they banned Ephedra. Some stupid @$$ baseball player drops dead and it becomes the worse stuff on the planet. I took max loads of ephedra, did hour plus cardio work outs with my heart rate over 200 beats a minute, sat in the sauna and I am still kicken with out a hitch.


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## Triple B (Mar 9, 2004)

i do believe the baseball player you mentioned above had a heart condition in the first place, and he took way over the amount supposed to be taken in a 24 hour period, i'm with ya porkchop, ephedra isn't bad unless you have heart conditions or OD on it.


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## DustinS (Nov 9, 2004)

Ranger_Compact said:


> Think about the other high school and college athletes that just dropped dead from heart attacks during sporting events, it doesn't matter how many there are, _any_ is too many. I'm sure a lot of them were using creatine though, it was a decision they made, can't feel too sorry.


You are making an *unfair* judgement of these people and *assuming* they were using creatine. Does every sudden sport's death have to be justified by the use of some type of enhancer? NO! I know of some of the healthiest people, both young and old, (who have never used any type of substances), that have had freak heart attacks.


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

Unless an autopsy report is made public, I don't have reason to believe anyone.
Why do you just assume that they all weren't using something? Goes either way.


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## DuckBuster (Mar 18, 2003)

Yeah, it does go either way. But you flat out said there were people that died using creatine, but have not come up with anything with proof. Even your wrestling cases didn't say any substance caused the death. My guess is with the amount of pressure put on most wrestlers to make weight, they were in rubber track suits and running around in 90 degree heat in the training room like almost all wrestlers I know. I haven't heard in several years, but wasn't there a restriction put out in MN, on high school wrestlers, limiting the amount of weight they can lose in the week leading up to a match?


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/espn25/s ... moments/62



> Why do you just assume that they all weren't using something?


Why would you assume they are on something? As the article above proves not everyone dies because they are on something.

I used creatine in college and the results were great. It really helped me bust through my plateaus.

Porkchop wrote:


> That is why I am so :ticked: they banned Ephedra.


I have bought a supliment with a lower level of ephedra and I like it. I used to use Ripped Fuel back in the late 90s and that stuff made me shake like the Pacific Rim. This stuff gives me a "good buzz" type of result.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

It is not the creatine that caused the deaths of anyone. It was the practice of trying to lose 12 pounds in a day along with taking creatine.



> Although no direct connections have been made, Jeff Reese was reported as using creatine when he died trying to make weight (Younge, 1998). My investigative report is aimed at uncovering the potential dangers of combining creatine supplementation with the excessive weight loss practices used by competitive wrestlers.


This was taken from here:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/psycholog ... eatine.htm


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## dogdigger (Jan 26, 2004)

i took creatine for a while (over a year) when i was lifting 5 days a week. it helped me to have faster recovery between work outs. i took less then the recommended amount and cycled off it to give my body time to rest between using it. also make sure you are drinking plenty of water while taking it. i had no ill effects that i noticed. if you have any more questions pm me because i wont check this thread again. i dont feel like getting into a ****** match wit hthe people who know it all.


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## Scoonafish (Oct 9, 2005)

As I read all this....I will just keep doing my 12 oz curls. :beer:


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

If that was the case, I've seen many wrestlers try to lose weight like that, and if it was true, more of them would die more often then they do. It's college, I am not taking back my statement, and I think there is an equal chance that they could or could not have been using creatine. I will always stand by my trainer's word, he hates it as do I.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

I never said cutting weight caused people to die. I said cutting weight and taking creatine MAY have caused 3 wrestlers to die in 1997. There is no hard evidence of creatine alone causing the death of anyone. Actually there is no hard link between cutting weight, creatine and the deaths. Isn't it odd though that the only people to die supposedly because of creatine are wrestlers trying to lose weight?


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

> As I read all this....I will just keep doing my 12 oz curls.


TIME TO STEP UP TO THE POUNDERS!!!! MOVE IT MOVE IT MOVE IT!!!!!!!!


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## Scoonafish (Oct 9, 2005)

goldhunter470 said:


> > As I read all this....I will just keep doing my 12 oz curls.
> 
> 
> TIME TO STEP UP TO THE POUNDERS!!!! MOVE IT MOVE IT MOVE IT!!!!!!!!


 Your are right. Time to get off my butt and get a case of pounders...then sit back down again and keep watching.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

gooseboy said:


> Im well aware of what it does thank you.


If you are going to turn around with some smart remark after you asked a question, then don't ask, read this again, DON'T ASK!!! You are asking for trouble, especially with talking about knowing people who could probably woop someone elses ***, you are going to get yourself in a bad situation. If you know half as much as you lead people to believe, you wouldn't be asking the these questions.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

Scoonafish said:


> As I read all this....I will just keep doing my 12 oz curls. :beer:


Most sensible response in here.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

goldhunter470 said:


> I never said cutting weight caused people to die. I said cutting weight and taking creatine MAY have caused 3 wrestlers to die in 1997. There is no hard evidence of creatine alone causing the death of anyone. Actually there is no hard link between cutting weight, creatine and the deaths. Isn't it odd though that the only people to die supposedly because of creatine are wrestlers trying to lose weight?


I think goldhunter hit this on the head. Creatine in and of itself is not a bad substance. There are MANY football players taking this substance with no ill effects for over a decade now. All the deaths I could find were related to wrestlers trying to lose weight.

That being said, you have to ask yourself... "Is it the substance or the way it is being (mis)applied by a certain sport's participants?" KNOWING that it has dehydration side effects WHY in the world do idiot wrestlers take the substance? The REAL PROBLEM is that you have not so bright young wrestlers believing themselves invincible giving the substance a bad rap.

Better get rid of alcohol. I hear some people (especially in Fargo) tend to drink too much when they are young causing self induced alcohol poisoning and death!


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## luveyes (Jan 22, 2005)

Ranger Compact,

I am stuck on 1 statement you made earlier. "my trainer monitored all of my bodily functions". This statement, unless you had weekly urinalysis and blood work done while you were on this high protein diet, makes you lose much credibility in this discussion.

Studies have shown that Creatin can help you bulk up, gain some muscle mass, most importantly reduces recovery time; so can a high pritein diet and varied exercise alternating between high rep low weight and muscle fatigueing low rep high weight. Anything lab made has risks and possible negative affects associated with use, however I havent seen any concrete evidence that Creatin has directly been linked to deaths in young people. Even prescription medications arent safe and their benefits have to outweigh the risks. Many more deaths/year from teenage girls overdosing on Tylenol than deaths related to nutritional supplements. Heck, Ephedra can be used in small doses with few occurances of harmful effects.

I am sorry, much of your banter doesnt hold water with me. You talk like you are a pro athlete, yet talk about your high and mighty trainer like all what he says is gospel. Does he have his masters in nutrition? Is he a MD? Or is he just a buff guy that got a job at the Sports Center in Fargo because he flexed his way into his position?

I am sorry to pick on you, I mean nothing personal, I just feel that someone that talks as passionaltely as you do must have something to back up the reasoning and I dont see it. [/quote]


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## gooseboy (Sep 13, 2005)

I lift 5 days a week so i get a good workout. I was just gonna see how it worked for a little while but i really need to find a wieght loss supplement that doesnt screw with my blood pressure or anything. Im 14 so keep that in mind. Does redline work? And does caffiene really quicken your metabolism?


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I'm a natural, what are you all talking about when you say recovery time.


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## Tator (Dec 10, 2005)

14 and on creatine???? maybe you should consult your parents....


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## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

I thought about it but decided not to touch the "monitored ALL of my bodily functions". 8)


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

gooseboy said:


> I lift 5 days a week so i get a good workout. I was just gonna see how it worked for a little while but i really need to find a wieght loss supplement that doesnt screw with my blood pressure or anything. Im 14 so keep that in mind. Does redline work? And does caffiene really quicken your metabolism?


I lift five times a week too, I lift my *** out of this chair atleast five times a day. If you consider getting a good work out doing what I just said, that must be why you look the way you do.


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## oklahomawatrfwlr (Jan 31, 2005)

Just telling you gooseboy (you probably already know, since you know so much) that lifting 5 times a week isn't good for your "muscles" and if you wanna loose weight get off the computer chair and go jog.


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## DuckBuster (Mar 18, 2003)

I'm with Oklahomawaterfowler on that one. Get out and do some cardio. At 14, you shouldn't need anything extra except protein.

Gooseboy- you need to understnd that your muscles have to have ample time to recover after a workout. That's when they actually grow, not during your workout. More is not always better. You would be better off doing more cardio and less lifting at your age.


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

My trainer isn't just some random guy, he went to school, got a degree, and owns the place. No he didn't do that much research on my bodily functions, but he constantly monitored weight and body fat, along with how my digestive system was handling all of the protien. I trust what he says, and will always follow his word. If he doesn't like it, I don't like it. Plain and simple as that. He has done so much to help me improve my performance in hockey and soccer, I wouldn't do anything to ruin that. I'm not saying creatine is 100% bad, but I'm not going to go supporting the substance either. My trainer is a 100% natural body builder, and I respect him for that, I just don't see how I could respect somebody who needs chemical assistance with their body. It's just not my thing.


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## DuckBuster (Mar 18, 2003)

Creatine is a chemical? I thought you said to just eat 20 lbs. of steak instead? That would make it more natural than chemical wouldn't it? Seems to me it's along the same lines as taking a protein powder to increase your protein intake.... It's a concentrated form of something your body needs to improve performance and recover. I'd be willing to bet your trainer uses some sort of protein powder in his nutrition program.

Ranger- I'm not trying to pick on you and I admire your enthusiasm. However, your arguments just don't hold up. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion, and whether people decide to use this substance or not is up to them. But it's not fair to spread false info. about something either.


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## gooseboy (Sep 13, 2005)

Yea guys i already know cardio=loose wieght and lifting=mo muscle im not 5 thanks for the info though and i talked to a couple physicians and they said they didnt like it.

So any wieght loss supplement suggestions?


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

> So any wieght loss supplement suggestions?


Yep, get out and run.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

I don't know much on this, but maybe 10 years ago a friend of mine and I who knew this professional trainor would get this concentrated powder mix from him to make these creatine milk shakes. I guess each shake had the same protein content of like 10 steaks. Anyway they definately helped, we worked out and drank this 3 times a day for about 6 months. The stuff wasn't cheap but it did help. I also remember I needed to drink one on a full to half full stomach, otherwise I would get a stomach ache, probably why I quite taking it. This stuff was harmless though.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

> "The young mind you help guide to TRUE NORTH now, will be the warrior for the
> wild, his or her entire life. I'll bet on it. And never let up."
> ...........................................................................................................Ted Nugent


I love your signature Goldy's Pal....


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

:beer:


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## DuckBuster (Mar 18, 2003)

Gooseboy- you talked to some physicians about creatine and they didn't like it. Fine. Did you talk to those same physicians about weight loss supplements for a 14 year old? I'd be willing to bet most physicians would be more against those than creatine. 99% are going to tell you to control diet and get out and run or do some cardio.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

oklahomawatrfwlr said:


> You can try another weight loss supplement that might work....look in the mirror.


BAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA :toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny: :toofunny:


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## gooseboy (Sep 13, 2005)

Ok guys you have no idea what i look like so shut up.


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## luveyes (Jan 22, 2005)

Ranger,

I would hate to be you and have to stand by the last statement "I just dont know how I could respect someone who needs chemical assistance". Wait until you have hypertension, hypercholesteremia, or maybe post partum depression. I would be a real bugger then to live with making that statement. This is my point, so much of what you say is easily refutable because it is backed with word of mouth or feeling, not facts. You are making an impression on a 14 year old boy asking for sound advice and giving baseless facts and info.

For the record I dont believe a 14 year old boy should take anything to help with growth (muscle or otherise). Look to sleep, lifting and a balanced diet. The muscle will grow and you will see results, it may take years though.

I really wish i kne how to quote others info in mine like everyone else does. It would be so much easier to write there responses.


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

Let me re-phrase that-he never said any reason _why_ he's taking it, so I guess I don't see a point in taking something you don't _need_. If athletes didn't need to take creatine thirteen years ago, they don't need it now. Just look at all of the set records that are being broken, by guys that are taking all kinds of supplements. Yes I know there are other reasons, such as longer seasons, but you get the point.

If you are 14, anything can mess with your body. Creatine hasn't been out long enough, to have measured the effects on a young person's body. You have plenty of time to grow and taking stuff like creatine, may not be helping you any. If it's an actual weight issue, let youself grow some more. I've had two friends that were really big until they hit 16, then they both grew up to be around 6'3" in just a couple of years, and are both the skinniest little things until they got a chance to work out a lot, and gain a bit more weight back.


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## Scoonafish (Oct 9, 2005)

Hey...anybody have 6 bucks I could borrow?


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

Can anyone spare two $ for me?!

Only got $4.00 to my name...

Someone needs to be booted. :evil:


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

What did I miss?!?!? What's up with the six bucks? Man, I need to pay more attention.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

You missed a classic example of the great spamming.


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## goldhunter470 (Feb 25, 2005)

dang it!


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Dude, forget supplements besides protein. Your 14. From my experiences people use supps as a crutch, more of a pshychological thing then anything. Dont let your head start thinking you need them for results, you dont. Do some research online. Bodybuilding.com and t-nation.com are decent web sites for lifting routines and nutrition info, dont read up on the supps too much.

In a nutshell: gaining muscle- change up your lifting routine, # of reps/sets, and the lifts you are using for certain muscles (many diff types of curls, presses/pulls and squats- use them your muscles get used to the same motions and results slow) move the weight as fast as possible WHILE MAINTAINING GOOD FORM. Use free weights (SQUATS, bench, pullups should be your bread and butter) screw machines. And EAT A LOT. Cook up a lot of chicken breasts, eat a lot of taters, steaks and veggies. load up on GOOD carbs in the moring, have a protein shake before bed..

Losing weight: Pretty much eliminate sugar intake, suger is huge in building fat. Keep your calories very minimal (especially carbs) after 5pm till bed. If you lift hard you shouldn't even need to do a lot of cardio + cardio makes you skinny (chicken legs), you want to be big


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Oh, and i find it funny how people who have no clue think creatine is some mega drug supplement :lol: Creatine is something you naturally intake.. I have used it, not really impressed.. Unless your an athlete who benefits from extra water weight or needs the absolute most from their recovery time I dont see much use for it. I dont need that soft puffy look, the fat on me gives me enough of it. And i dont need to lose a little bit of the gains when i'm done with it.

But come on, creatine causing deaths :lol: good one..


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Best weight loss supplement there is.........NO MCDONALDS, NO VIDEO GAMES, GET INTO TEAM(or individual) SPORTS That HAVE AN AEROBIC COMPONENT!!!!


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## apeterson (Aug 3, 2005)

lifting will also help you loose weight because increased muscles burn more calories there for loosing weight... if you want to loose weight 
1. eat properly!!!!! 
2. lift
3. Cardio

in that order

This is all you need to do... It takes a long time 6-12 months to see major results (but you should see results in as little as a month) so stick with it!! If you are loosing more than 2-3 lb per week it is too much too fast... I went from 215LBs to 180Lb in 9 months by doing just this... but you have to be willing to change your lifestyle, not just hitting the weights.


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