# Opinion of a Deutsch Drahthaar



## C.HAAS

I am looking at getting a Deutsch Drahthaar in the next 5-7 years when my labs will be retiring. What's your opinion of the breed. What I see is the versatility of the breed to point, retrieve and track game. I have owned a lab that specializes in retrieving and a english pointer for pointing. I traded my pointer for a lab since I had trouble holding pheasant tight for a point. I do most of my hunting by myself and the pointer did do better with more people in the field to hold the birds. So, I am a little gun shy of getting another pointer. I would say I spend about 50/50 time between waterfowl and upland game. Any recommendations for breeders in ND/SD/MN?


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## Jimmie's Pop

The more a pointer gets on birds the faster they learn how to pin them down. A young dog will have a lot of birds running on him. It takes patience and your lab needs to honor point if you want to see improvement. I don't own one but from what I've heard Drahthars are outstanding for waterfowl too. Go to the DD Group of North Americas website and check for breeders. There is an impressive looking stud on the website located around Oxbow ND named Clou vom Wildgarten.


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## gonehuntin'

A huge supporter here. I'll never own another breed of dog. The most versatile animal I've hunted over. This is the most enjoyable animal in a lifetime of dogs, I have ever owned, lived with, hunted over, and trained. She came from Vomorion in Caldwell Idaho.


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## Dick Monson

dakotawirehairs.com has GWPs and Drahthaar s I believe. You are asking a lot of these dogs if you hunt real cold water. Not saying they won't do it, but it is asking a lot with that hair coat. I figure if I wouldn't jump in myself, I wouldn't send Sam either. JMHO.
gh, a beautiful dog!


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## gonehuntin'

Mine breaks Ice Dick, but you notice the neoprene vest. She loves cold water and just goes for swims in the late fall before Ice up.

Thank you for the compliment.


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## Wes

I have two, one from vom Drosselbart, and one from vom Moorehaus. I am totally in love with the breed. I use mine for upland and waterfowl. They may not mark like a Lab, but mine doesn't miss many downed birds. He really shines on finding cripples, whether it be ducks, geese, pheasants or any other animal.

I also take my older dog rabbit and squirrel hunting. He's found a few of them I wouldn't have, and alerts me to squirrels.

Wes










Here's an older dog, the one above's mom, that has since passed:


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## fargodawg

Mine's from Jack Wilson, near Aberdeen, will never have a different breed.


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## ND4LIFE

wouldn't have any other breed, Mine is trained to blood track, will run the prairies like a pointer, will tear through catails like steam engine and will sit in a duck boat all day long, he will retrieve puddle ducks in weed choked marsh to seaducks in the open bay, but they are not for everyone. They are not wonder dogs out of the box. They can be a lot of dog for the inexpereinced handler or even a experienced handler thats used to other breeds, they can frustrate you to no end, but if your on top of it, patient, know how they think and how to handle them they can do anything. Spend some time talking to owners and breeders, go to training days and tests before you decide to see if they match your style.


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## rock

Only breed for me. I had shorthairs for a long time and found the DD. They'll do it all and seem to have a "switch" and can transition from inside to outside and back inside better than any breed I have seen. All the positives are related to hunting. They are machines in the field and the water. Two negatives: they do shed some (my wife says a lot) and are not as tolerant of hot weather as other pointing breeds...although can be acclimated as well as any breed.

Check out www.vdd-gna.org and look at some breeders in your area. Be prepared to talk about your willingness to test (or not) and the kind of drive, coat and size of dog you want.


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## BROWNDOG

I love Labs and love training and running trials with them , and also hunting them but at some point in my life I will have one of these guys 

They just look like a " Hunting Dog " Wes I like the looks of your dogs but when the time comes for me I gotta have one that has a big ole beard like GH..........


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## gonehuntin'

BROWNDOG said:


> I love Labs and love training and running trials with them , and also hunting them but at some point in my life I will have one of these guys
> 
> They just look like a " Hunting Dog " Wes I like the looks of your dogs but when the time comes for me I gotta have one that has a big ole beard like GH..........


That's what happened to me. I had labs for 40 years, hunting, trialing and pro training them. Then I was introduced to the DD. I'll never own another breed. If you get on Browndog, remember this: They hate rote work. It's their only hole. They are very difficult dogs to teach even basic handling. I can live with that because they do everything else so well. Including dominating the household furniture.


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## ND4LIFE

wes, I am not a retriever guy at all, but I talked with a few guys and did basic school house blinds, baseball and a few other drills. Mine dog now can do roughly 300 yard ground blinds, 150 yard across water. I found that lining was the most important part. I can whistle sit mine once maybe twice and get him to go left-right or back if he gets off. DD's I would imagine are much more difficult to train than labs, but some of the work can be done.

I couldn't do many reps in one session and would keep the drills very simple. I kept the handling to a minuim to keep his independence and not confuse him, but if I did needed it I wanted a postive response.

I would be interested in what you tried and what worked and what didn't. I would like to work my next dog in the same way but attempt to improve upon my methods.

thanks


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## Wes

Actually Harry handles pretty well. He will sit to the whistle and cast to the left or right and back. I started when he was a pup with the forced retrieve, fetch to pile, baseball drill, and others trying to vary the routine. He loves learning new things, and loves differnt drills. He especially likes doing water retrieves. My biggest problem is steadiness, Harry is the ultra energetic, hyper dog. My other Drahts are/were calmer, and easier to steady.

He doesn't have the coat that most Drahts have, it' shorter an doesn't have as good of coverage. My new pup, Sam has a real nice flat dense coat, and even has furnishings! Here he is at about 5 months, his beard has gotten longer and started to turn red.









You are absolutely right about the furniture:


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## ND4LIFE

You start much earlier, for me everything is fun and the dog is only exposed to things till about a year old. But thats what I found as well is changing up the games kept things new.


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## Wes

ND4LIFE,
Sorry, I wasn't real clear in my post. Harry is 6 years. I don't start real formal training until around six months. You are right, everything before that is fun. We do fun fetches up until then and only a few at a time. They learn come, sit, stay, down with treats. I make them heel, sit or whoa until released before I feed them. I did start Sam to come, stay and heel with a flat collar and checkcord at about 5 months. At six months, or whenver they have all of their adult teeth is when I start force training, after that comes the building blocks of all the different drills. I don't feel that I rush it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Sam, my 8 month old pup, is going through the force training process now. Here's a pic of him doing some fun retrieves before I started the FF training:
Wes


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## gonehuntin'

Like all dogs, DD's differ from each other. Some HATE any rote drill and believe me, it is not worth it to try and force one through them. I believe the males work to rote better than the females.

The female I have now hates any rote work. She looks like she's ready to throw up when we do T's. I've decided she's such a great bird dog I'm not going to push it. I can accept the fact that she'll never handle like a lab. Here's a picture of her running a water T with rat traps.


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## Wes

Gonehuntin'

Agreed, you've got to know how to read your dog to know when he's had enough of a certain training exercise.

What are "rat traps"? Points of land or obstacles?

Wes


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## gonehuntin'

They're used when teach a water T is you don't have a small pond. I no longer use rat traps, but that's what they use in trials. I take a 2x4 about a foot long and nail four clothes pins to it. Then I run a 6' line with an anchor on it and attact it to the bottom of the 2x4 with a fence staple. Now, I wade out into the pond and drop the anchor. You can take four bumpers with ropes on them and place the rope in the clothes pin, lightly. When the dog casts to the bumper, he simple pulls it loose from the clothes pin.

With a rat trap you do the same thing, but put the rope under the jaw. Because of the smooth steep jaw, the rope slips out easily.

By using the 2x4 and clothes pins, you can teach the T in any body of water including a large lake. Not all of us are wealthy enough to own engineered training ponds.


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## Losthwy

I had an interesting conversation with a fellow who trains many different breeds for upland hunting in Northern Colorado. I asked him about the upland hunting abilities of the different dogs. The DD fans ain't gonna like this. He stated the Springer Spaniels were the best upland hunters, followed by the Labradors. And the DD were third. (I didn't inquire about pointers). 
If you split your time between upland and waterfowl, and only can have one dog, seems the no-brainer is a lab. There is no better waterfowl dog than the Labrador.


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## schlag

Between my brother and I, we have 4 DD now. They are the best breed of dog there is. We have hunted everything with them. They are fearless and never give up. They can also be a little stubborn. There all different though. We have 1 male and 1 female and 2 pups that are now 2 years old. Not one of them are alike. I would never recommend one for a first time dog owner. They will take advantage of you if you let them. If at least you had a dog before, they would be a great choice.


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## gonehuntin'

Losthwy said:


> I had an interesting conversation with a fellow who trains many different breeds for upland hunting in Northern Colorado. I asked him about the upland hunting abilities of the different dogs. The DD fans ain't gonna like this. He stated the Springer Spaniels were the best upland hunters, followed by the Labradors. And the DD were third. (I didn't inquire about pointers).
> If you split your time between upland and waterfowl, and only can have one dog, seems the no-brainer is a lab. There is no better waterfowl dog than the Labrador.


You're talking apples and bananas here. Springers and Labs flush. DD's point. I've trained hundreds of labs and some springers. Labs are vaccums in a field, but they don't track as well as a DD and obviously they can't range as far and hold birds.

I think it's a matter of taste. I love the point. If cold water is a huge factor, get a lab. My DD is a cold water machine. I've never seen her refuse and water, no matter how cold, but I'd still give that edge to the lab.

The DD is so much more versatile. A lab sucks at grouse hunting. A DD is great. Lab's don't do well in chuckar country, DD's do. I respect your trainers opinion, but I don't agree with it.


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## ND4LIFE

Losthwy said:


> I had an interesting conversation with a fellow who trains many different breeds for upland hunting in Northern Colorado. I asked him about the upland hunting abilities of the different dogs. The DD fans ain't gonna like this. He stated the Springer Spaniels were the best upland hunters, followed by the Labradors. And the DD were third. (I didn't inquire about pointers).
> If you split your time between upland and waterfowl, and only can have one dog, seems the no-brainer is a lab. There is no better waterfowl dog than the Labrador.


 With his opinion he is obviuosly biased towards flushers, becuase anyone that doesn't put upland specialists like setters and pointers in the top field only dogs needs there head checked. I wouldn't want to have a lab or springer when hunter sharptails in ND or quail in ks. But they may have the edge in thick catails over pointers and setters.

Is a DD going to compare to a pointer in the open field? no, but closer than a lab. a DD will be right there in the thick stuff though with a lab or springer. Is a DD going to compare to a lab in the water? very close depends if you want to handle your dog all the time.

so if you like flushers and don't really care about performance in the open country and want to duck hunt a lab/springer is for you.

If you like pointers and want overall performace in all types upland and water, a DD or another versatile breed may be right for you. Oh, that DD will also blood track your deer, tree your squierrels, hunt rabbits and if you want to go south to hunt hogs, they can do that as well.

:beer:


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## fargodawg

mine was snoring in the front seat of the truck after a long day at the lake retrieving bumpers in the water.

my wife snores a little now and again so it was ok.
:beer:


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## C.HAAS

This is great feed back. I do love to hunt waterfowl but mostly field hunting. I do try to hunt over water once in awhile. Now that I have had both a flusher and a pointer, I am some what leary of getting another pointing dog because of the running roosters that I encounter. I know that I am just inexperienced on this and don't know how to handle a dog under this condition. That is probable why I traded my pointer for another lab. I kick myself some days for doing this but I didn't give my pointer enough time to develop. Here is a question. When hunting a pointer, do you shoot birds that are not pointed? It takes a lot of control not to shot birds that are not pointed. Why buy a pointer if your going to shot flushed birds. I think I have grown up a bit. It is no longer about getting my limited everytime I hunt. It took away the fun of hunting and made it a job to get the limit. It is more enjoyable to just watch the dog and if some shooting is involved that is great. Thanks again for all of your replys. I am fascinated with this breed and seriously considering this as my next dog to get.


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## Jimmie's Pop

C.HAAS said:


> This is great feed back. I do love to hunt waterfowl but mostly field hunting. I do try to hunt over water once in awhile. Now that I have had both a flusher and a pointer, I am some what leary of getting another pointing dog because of the running roosters that I encounter. I know that I am just inexperienced on this and don't know how to handle a dog under this condition. That is probable why I traded my pointer for another lab. I kick myself some days for doing this but I didn't give my pointer enough time to develop. Here is a question. When hunting a pointer, do you shoot birds that are not pointed? It takes a lot of control not to shot birds that are not pointed. Why buy a pointer if your going to shot flushed birds. I think I have grown up a bit. It is no longer about getting my limited everytime I hunt. It took away the fun of hunting and made it a job to get the limit. It is more enjoyable to just watch the dog and if some shooting is involved that is great. Thanks again for all of your replys. I am fascinated with this breed and seriously considering this as my next dog to get.


With a pup in his/her first season I'd shoot everything to build his drive. Give plenty of praise and let him play with the bird for a bit. In the 2nd year it won't take long for the dog to learn he doesn't get a bird unless he points.
Don't worry about the breed so much. Decide if you want a pointer or a flusher and do your research. Find which dogs tested well go to see the parents and find the personality you like. 
Focus on finding a good litter of pups. Everybody here says DD's are the best dog, but I guaruntee you there are duds out there. I've also heard it's hard to find one that gets along with other breeds in the field.
There are great DD, DK, and GSP kennels all over ND,SD and MN. Most important is that you spend time with him. Take him on walks in fields without a leash when he's young and he'll get used to checking in with you at a young age. Maybe less prone to run over the hill and bust birds when he's older.

If you go with a pointer and you're in Jtown contact the Navhda guys in Bismarck. I'm sure they'd be happy to work with your pup during the summer with you.
I vote GSP. My first dog, he's easy to train, confident, loves water, high prey drive, staunch point and doesn't care to much about the -30 degree mornings we had in Bismarck last year. So long as he gets to tunnel through the snow. They're softer in personality than DD's and I think most people here would agree a little easier to train for the novice.
In reference to another thread, mine shed for about two weeks in the spring. Haven't noticed a hair since.


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## ND4LIFE

C.HAAS said:


> This is great feed back. I do love to hunt waterfowl but mostly field hunting. I do try to hunt over water once in awhile. Now that I have had both a flusher and a pointer, I am some what leary of getting another pointing dog because of the running roosters that I encounter. I know that I am just inexperienced on this and don't know how to handle a dog under this condition. That is probable why I traded my pointer for another lab. I kick myself some days for doing this but I didn't give my pointer enough time to develop. Here is a question. When hunting a pointer, do you shoot birds that are not pointed? It takes a lot of control not to shot birds that are not pointed. Why buy a pointer if your going to shot flushed birds. I think I have grown up a bit. It is no longer about getting my limited everytime I hunt. It took away the fun of hunting and made it a job to get the limit. It is more enjoyable to just watch the dog and if some shooting is involved that is great. Thanks again for all of your replys. I am fascinated with this breed and seriously considering this as my next dog to get.


when young if the dog didn't point I don't shoot. Once they are steady to wing and shot then I will shoot wild flushed birds, but only after they have been steadied. I am not going to reward the dog for something he did not do well. While you will find duds in all the breeds, building drive is usually that last thing you worry about in the breed. I just don't beleive that shooting and getting a retrieve is going to build anymore drive. I would have done a lot of other things before that if I need to build drive.

Jimmy is correct there are many other breeds that are eaiser to train.

running Pheasants will give any breed nightmares, it will take a experienced dog to get the best results and that takes paitence and time.


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## royy2

Get a Draht and you'll never go back. I have also yet to see a Draht fight with another dog. I'm sure it happens, but my 3 year old has yet to, and I haven't seen any other's doing it either. If you socialize them with other dogs when they are youg, I doubt you'll have any problems.

As for running birds, it's the same with any good hunting dog.........With experience they figure it out on their own. You don't teach a Draht to hunt......You expose them to birds and they do the rest on their own. I brought my pup for walks through fields 3-4 times a week and by the 2nd or 3rd time they were pointing birds. The more birds they came into contact with, the better they pointed. Soon the dog was actually searching the field and finding birds left and right. At 7 months old I hunted her the whole Pheasant season and she did great. The only training I did the first year was some basic obedience and exposing her to birds. She did the rest on her own. Like many on here said, get a Draht and don't look back.


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## Jimmie's Pop

ND4LIFE said:


> when young if the dog didn't point I don't shoot. Once they are steady to wing and shot then I will shoot wild flushed birds, but only after they have been steadied. I am not going to reward the dog for something he did not do well. While you will find duds in all the breeds, building drive is usually that last thing you worry about in the breed. I just don't beleive that shooting and getting a retrieve is going to build anymore drive. I would have done a lot of other things before that if I need to build drive.
> 
> Jimmy is correct there are many other breeds that are eaiser to train.
> 
> running Pheasants will give any breed nightmares, it will take a experienced dog to get the best results and that takes paitence and time.


So my GSP is a year old now and I'm working steady to flush. Say he locks up on a good staunch point, you wouldn't shoot if he breaks point at my flush?
He's worked over a couple pen raised birds this summer with a check cord wrapped around the flank and attached to his collar. When he broke I held, he fell, and they shot. We then allowed him to retrieve.
When he smells that pheasent on opener I know he'll forget. If I want my dog steady to fall, would you suggest this process in the wild field until he's steady?


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## ND4LIFE

Jimmie's Pop said:


> ND4LIFE said:
> 
> 
> 
> when young if the dog didn't point I don't shoot. Once they are steady to wing and shot then I will shoot wild flushed birds, but only after they have been steadied. I am not going to reward the dog for something he did not do well. While you will find duds in all the breeds, building drive is usually that last thing you worry about in the breed. I just don't beleive that shooting and getting a retrieve is going to build anymore drive. I would have done a lot of other things before that if I need to build drive.
> 
> Jimmy is correct there are many other breeds that are eaiser to train.
> 
> running Pheasants will give any breed nightmares, it will take a experienced dog to get the best results and that takes paitence and time.
> 
> 
> 
> So my GSP is a year old now and I'm working steady to flush. Say he locks up on a good staunch point, you wouldn't shoot if he breaks point at my flush?
> He's worked over a couple pen raised birds this summer with a check cord wrapped around the flank and attached to his collar. When he broke I held, he fell, and they shot. We then allowed him to retrieve.
> When he smells that pheasent on opener I know he'll forget. If I want my dog steady to fall, would you suggest this process in the wild field until he's steady?
Click to expand...

when young and the dog points and holds to when I got within gun range or for a good amount of time, then yes I would shoot birds. But more you shoot before he is steady more work you'll have. However if he wild flushes, or points breifly and busts in, no I am not going to reward him.

in training I never shot birds until he was far along in steadiness training, I would get him to where I could walk in and pick him up and praise the pup. From there I went right into steadiness to my command.

Then if he breaks and you corrected him, he shouldn't hear a gunfire, or get a retrieve, your rewarding for less than perfect work. In steadiness training, the only time he gets a retrieve is if its perfect. Even then he doesn't get the retrieve every time, before you know it he will be pushing and starting to break. Its on your command, if he thinks everytime I stay steady I get the retrieve, you are going to condition him to automatically think he gets the bird, what happens if your hunting 2 dogs?


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## gonehuntin'

Jimmie's Pop said:


> So my GSP is a year old now and I'm working steady to flush. Say he locks up on a good staunch point, you wouldn't shoot if he breaks point at my flush?


Certainly you would shoot that bird, because he's broken when YOU flushed the bird, he did not break point and flush it.



Jimmie's Pop said:


> He's worked over a couple pen raised birds this summer with a check cord wrapped around the flank and attached to his collar. When he broke I held, he fell, and they shot. We then allowed him to retrieve.


You rewarded him for a flawed behavior by letting him retrieve. He'll never learn that way. When he mistakes a mistake, he gets no bird, period.



Jimmie's Pop said:


> When he smells that pheasent on opener I know he'll forget. If I want my dog steady to fall, would you suggest this process in the wild field until he's steady?


You're not goint to get it all in his first season. Be satisfied with a solid point and let him break on the shot. As a two year old you can steady him to shot and fall. How are you going to handle relocations?


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## bill78

Hi, everyone. I just found this forum and thought I would join since you were talking about two of my loves. The Drahthaar, or the German wirehaired pointer, if you would, is an excellant dog. I personally have a chocolate lab/ drahthaar mix. He is an exceptional dog. The drahthaar was bred as an all around hunting dog. The Germans bred them to hunt upland game, big game, and to retrieve water fowl in all seasons of Germany. Needless to say, my vote is yes for the Drahthaar.


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