# What forms some of our opinions about liberals



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Here is your answer below. Often we hear them criticize conservatives for being partisan. The truth is I don't like democrats or republicans. Maybe I just don't like politicians. However, when I hear a liberal say we should reach across the isle I know he means conservatives should do what I want. They speak about tolerance, but I find liberals the least tolerant, the most partisan, and I guess simply hypocritical about so many things. I would guess most are so partisan they don't know the depth of their overpowering bias.



> Here's Nancy Pelosi from a press conference on September 7, 2006:
> 
> [E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done . . . is done. And even to capture him now I don't think makes us any safer.
> 
> ...


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## vtrons (Feb 14, 2008)

I see your point and I don't trust politicians, either.

Until they start talking about meeting IN the aisle, instead of requiring the other party to reach accross it, they will never get anything done in this country.


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## Recurvenator (Aug 6, 2010)

I hate liberals and unions. :******:


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## Gillbilly (Mar 21, 2007)

As you can read I am from Madison Wi.You may have heard about us recently in the news. First I ask how you can hate me without ever meeting me?I am a union member and do tend to vote more left on many issues.Do you honestly fault me for taking a job that provided my family a decent life.Do you think our home(under 1100sqft)is more than we deserve for doing our jobs.We too are both working so we can pay our bills,no stay at home mom here.I have a feeling we enjoy many of the same activities and have the same respect for the outdoors.Hate is a strong word and if you can truly hate me just for being in a union and maybe not voting on all issue the way you feel is proper then my bleeding liberal heart goes out to you.Now as for what forms our opinions it it should go beyond Fox news or MSNBC.As I stated earlier I am from Madison.Lately politics has been ripping our state apart and I have become more aware of issues,this is not by choice,I to dont trust polititions.I just want to point out that I can toss out all kinds of similar sound bites from consevatives.I do not wish to debate here as my typing skills are very poor.I do want to say that when talking politics remember its better when we dont all agree.Gillbilly.


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## Recurvenator (Aug 6, 2010)

Gillbilly said:


> As you can read I am from Madison Wi.You may have heard about us recently in the news. First I ask how you can hate me without ever meeting me?I am a union member and do tend to vote more left on many issues.Do you honestly fault me for taking a job that provided my family a decent life.Do you think our home(under 1100sqft)is more than we deserve for doing our jobs.We too are both working so we can pay our bills,no stay at home mom here.I have a feeling we enjoy many of the same activities and have the same respect for the outdoors.Hate is a strong word and if you can truly hate me just for being in a union and maybe not voting on all issue the way you feel is proper then my bleeding liberal heart goes out to you.Now as for what forms our opinions it it should go beyond Fox news or MSNBC.As I stated earlier I am from Madison.Lately politics has been ripping our state apart and I have become more aware of issues,this is not by choice,I to dont trust polititions.I just want to point out that I can toss out all kinds of similar sound bites from consevatives.I do not wish to debate here as my typing skills are very poor.I do want to say that when talking politics remember its better when we dont all agree.Gillbilly.


Here is a real simple question for you Gillbilly; did you or did you not vote for Obama?


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Don't be too quick to jump on Gillbilly.

You have my attention, Gillbilly. Don't worry about your typing skills. I think I speak for most when I say what matters much more is what you have to say. I don't like the word hate....unless it's being used to describe my feelings for _most_ liberals :wink: , and somethin tells me you're not in that category. But do tell. Tell us what you're hearing. What's really happening there. I personally find some of the lefts' story had to swallow, like the budget surplus your state was supposed to have pre-Walker.....at a time when every other state in the union is flat broke.

But tell us what we don't know from the press.....


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Gillbilly, you sound to logical and down to earth for me to have anything against. I don't blame you at all for taking a good job. I do blame unions for often bleeding companies to death, and that could kill your job. Also, I like Recurvinator would be disappointed if Obama suckered you, and like Csquared I'm not at all concerned about your typing. As a matter of fact I look at people as shallow if they talk about typing and spelling rather than the real issues.

I also would be interested in your opinions, and welcome to the political form.


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## Gillbilly (Mar 21, 2007)

Nope did not vote for Obama,I have never been suckerd by any politition.I tend to avoid the main stream in most views and didnt want to just hop on the happy train for someone whose views on guns I already knew were way off base.I may be aging myself but the name Ross Perot was marked on one of my ballots.As for things in Wisconsin I can say that alot has been exagerated on both sides but push me into a corner and I come out fightin.I will try to touch on some of the points when I have more time as this just took most of my lunch break,its good to be union oke: .One quick note we are looking at constatutional concealed carry at this time.Later,Gillbilly.


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## Gillbilly (Mar 21, 2007)

If your still interested I thought I would share some info on what has helped form my opinions.First I was asked about the Wi deficit.What I can recall(no pun intended)this years fiscal shortfall is approx 135mil.The next structural budget deficit will be 3.6billion over 2 years beginning 7/1.The problem I see is Walker gave 140mil in business tax breaks beginning 7/1.Now I did some cyferin an such and do realize that amounts to about 2percent,not much in the grand scheme.This is where I take issue though,300mil in savings by cutting union wages at the same time as giving said breaks.Also it has been said that the budget he will be coming out with wont be any better or that it just puts more burden on local govt,this is not fact but alot of signs are pointing that direction.I dont know how it comes out in the end but I guess this is where I lean left,how can you justify cutting wages yet give tax breaks?I know many will say it will stimulate job growth,I hope so.I could keep going but Im bored and think Ill go watch a waterfowl huntin dvd,maybe F5.If any of this interests you,try googling Scott Walker,Koch phone call or Walker budget repair bill.There are many issues buried in that bill that had zero fiscal impact or were just plain shady dealings and wreak of payback.Again I type slow so if you want to converse I will always reply it just may not be immediate.Later,Gillbilly.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Good Evening Gillbilly. Well, I must say it's nice talking to a liberal that doesn't talk down to me. Thank you for your kind reply.

I don't really know that much about what is going on in Wisconsin. Well, maybe I should say I did, but as age catches up to me I don't remember it very long. Cracks like that are not as funny as they were a few years ago. 

Anyway, I'll give you the perspective I gained while listening to it on the news. You tell me if I have this wrong, and if you would why. 
I thought the tax breaks may keep business going. I read on the Drudge Report that Caterpillar may pull out of Indiana and go to some other tax friendly state. I thought perhaps the tax cuts in Wisconsin were to keep companies in the black. It's tough to know now days people (companies and individuals) whine so much you can't tell if it's real or not. Anyway, I thought some of the companies in Wisconsin would fold without tax breaks, or have to lay off people because of the economy and tax breaks would keep jobs. That is directly related to unions. At one time unions were needed very much because employers were using people like slaves. However, that has turned around so much and the unions have such power that I worry they may bankrupt companies. Then there are no jobs.
I'll be the first to admit I don't know how to balance power between employers and employees, but it appears to me the power that once existed with the companies is now with the employees unions and they are pushing companies out of the United States. Every time I call about my phone or computer I get someone I can't understand. No exaggeration, I don't hear that great and you throw in a heavy accent and I can not understand a thing. I had some guy from India or somewhere very angry with me one night. I think he thought I was making fun of him, but I was not. He flipped out on me and said "what wrong with you, you dumb a$$ or smart a$$". Sorry for the bad language, but I was quoting.

Anyway Gillbilly thanks for the reply. 
Later.


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## Gillbilly (Mar 21, 2007)

Plainsman,I too ejoy a civil coversation.It gets a little old being called names while trying to gain an understanding of other peoples views.That said,you in my opinion are correct on your assuption of what the breaks should do.I will use Harley as an example(you know that motorbike company).They were ready to leave so the workers took cuts and they stayed.Now the company is and doing well and the guys still have jobs.My question is was it ever in danger or was it just a way of making bigger profits for the top dogs.I have no issue with business making a profit but when threats are made and people are afraid of losing employment I tend to question motive,I have alway questioned authority :evil:.I think in general we have always understood its kinda give and take and would bargain for a fair deal,union or non,right or left.I see a major change going on in Wisconsin and the U.S in general and it looks like a power grab or competition more than what is best for the country.I will ask that you take a look at where the middle class wages are and how they have stagnated,then look at the record profits and massive wealth at the top.Is this a fair deal or should corp.loopholes and subsidizes be addressed? The house speaker made the comment that raising taxes is off the table but we need trillions in cuts,WTF?Shouldnt there be atleast a somewhat even deal?Sorry little off track ADDs kickin in again but I think you can keep up  .Anyway gotta go but I will leave ya with this,Walker is in D.C speaking on his school voucher plan which will use taxpayer dollars to send kids to private schools including parochial schools,I see a seperation of church and state issue.Check it out and we can talk a bit on that :beer: .GILLBILLY.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> My question is was it ever in danger or was it just a way of making bigger profits for the top dogs.I have no issue with business making a profit but when threats are made and people are afraid of losing employment I tend to question motive,I have alway questioned authority


I'm with you on that. I like capitalism, but I can not figure out how to control greed without putting a damper on freedom. I don't know if there is an easy answer. 
It's hard to understand how some of the oil companies are making record profits. I thought Obama was going to cure that. I perhaps should be thankful that he didn't because he has a tendency to make the wrong decisions.



> Anyway gotta go but I will leave ya with this,Walker is in D.C speaking on his school voucher plan which will use taxpayer dollars to send kids to private schools including parochial schools,I see a seperation of church and state issue.


I have mixed feelings about that. My brother retired from 41 years of teaching and his wife 40 years of teaching. We have a number of teachers in the family. I hear about all the waste in the public system. Also, that separation of church and state is actually not in the constitution. Also, the separation of church and state is misconstrued by so many. The intent was christian people could influence government, but government was not to stick it's nose into religion. As a matter of fact the idea is based upon the principle that "congress shall make no laws" in regards to religion. States actually can do what they want and not violate the constitution. In all fairness a taxpayer should perhaps have a voucher and choose public or private school. After all that tax dollar belongs as much to a Christian as a Muslim (they should get the voucher also) or an atheist.

What the heck, I just noticed that spell check caught that I did not capitalize "Muslim", but it left Christian with no capitol. Hmm appears a little prejudice to me so I went back and corrected both.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

The Constitution addresses freedom OF religion.

The liberals want freedom FROM religion.

Interesting how much difference one word can make, don't you think? :wink:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Csquared said:


> The Constitution addresses freedom OF religion.
> 
> The liberals want freedom FROM religion.
> 
> Interesting how much difference one word can make, don't you think? :wink:


I completely agree. There is a portion of liberals that oppose anything that makes them feel any pressure to follow any moral code.


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## upland420 (Dec 27, 2004)

I love it when the rightys start preaching about that high MORAL ground. Its usually followed by them being caught with their 'thing' in some little boy or another man. See your local priest or republican congressman for confirmation. I wont bother to list the established cases...there are MANY to choose from. Talk about being "hypocritical about so many things" !!!!!!!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

upland420 said:


> I love it when the rightys start preaching about that high MORAL ground. Its usually followed by them being caught with their 'thing' in some little boy or another man. See your local priest or republican congressman for confirmation. I wont bother to list the established cases...there are MANY to choose from. Talk about being "hypocritical about so many things" !!!!!!!


I think you have that backwards. It's liberals for gay marriage. I think the media jumps on the gay republican indiscretions because it's so uncommon.  Liberals are also the ones that want to kill their mistakes. A child would be less money for them. Tolerance is just a code word for accept anything. Think about it for a minute. Intolerant means you have limits for what you can accept. Tolerant means you have no limits. Right? 
Other than that they spend with no responsibility like children. They want health care because they don't want to be responsible for themselves. Oh, they will tell you it's because they want to help others, but mostly they want to help themselves to the working guys wallet. 

I'm not keen on republicans either because not that many are really conservative. I think we need to start over in Washington with some people that are not just the same old establishment. The Tea Party would be good. oke:



> or another man


There is hope for you because if you were a strong left liberal you wouldn't say that like there was something wrong with it.


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## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

upland420 wrote:


> I love it when the rightys start preaching about that high MORAL ground. Its usually followed by them being caught with their 'thing' in some little boy or another man. See your local priest or republican congressman for confirmation. I wont bother to list the established cases...there are MANY to choose from. Talk about being "hypocritical about so many things" !!!!!!!


I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest you are much smarter than your last post might otherwise indicate, upland, and you could just possibly be trying to goad someone into a fight :wink:

So let me have it. Show me what ya got! 

I would be astounded if there was much difference in the number of democrats vs republicans who've been caught "with their pants down". But you know that's not the issue here. Inferring the republican party platform is not "moral" simply because some of it's members have misused _their members_ is like saying DNR bag limits aren't prudent because you know the names of some who've ignored daily limits. But if you're in the mood to post specific examples, let's see some examples of the democratic platform you believe to be of higher moral fiber than those on the republican side so we can get this thing started.

But before I go I gotta ask one thing. We all know that looking at elected officials to find the highest benchmark of moral fiber is akin to looking for the cure for alcoholism in a bar, so I gotta know where and how you established your benchmark of "morality".


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> We all know that looking at elected officials to find the highest benchmark of moral fiber is akin to looking for the cure for alcoholism in a bar


 :beer: :rollin: :rollin:

Sad, but isn't it the truth?


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