# How long will one brass case last?



## USMC (Jun 13, 2006)

My daughter and I am thinking of learning how to reload, and am thinking of the Whisper 300 which is a 223 necked up to fit the 30 cal round.

How many times (Range of use, as I'm sure one might outlast another) can one new brass case be reloaded before it's no longer viable?

Also, is there one reasonably priced good book on the subject that would cover everything involved in reloading?

I need to make this my signature!

:sniper: :******:

I SAID WAIT A FRIGGEN MINUTE!!!


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Actually it uses the 221 Fireball case, so you will not be able to get military brass which would make it cheap to reload. I have never loaded for this caliber, but one of my son's and I have been interested in it for years. It is one of the best rounds for a suppressor, and I think that license is only a couple hundred dollars. It would be great to punch jackrabbits with very little noise.
The 240 grain can be loaded from about 1050 fps (subsonic) to about 1500 fps. I think they had it up to 1850 fps out of a Ruger rifle a few years back. The reason it is so tempting is because it gives up velocity so grudgingly. If I remember right less than 100 fps at the first 100 yards.
The number of times you can reload depends on how hot your reload. Most people like this rifle for the low noise, muzzle blast factor so they load subsonic. With that type of load I would guess you would get a minimum of ten reloads. Most all the time you will get head separation long before the neck splits. To check for this take a six or eight inch piece of piano wire, and bend a short sharp J shape in one end. Insert this down the neck to the bottom of the case, hold the sharp edge against the side of the case, and slide it upwards. If you are beginning to get head separation you will feel the beginin as a grove around the inside of the brass slightly above the head. 
I don't keep track of how many times I reload brass. I simply check for head separation before I even polish. No need polishing brass your going to throw away. I watch for split necks during this same operation. 
I think the 300 Whisper would be a very fun rifle. Also it pushes a 240 grain bullet just as fast as a 240 grain 44 magnum. If you think about it that means it would be good for deer twice as far away, because of it's ballistic coefficient and retained energy. You would have to use an easy open bullet so that it would mushroom at low velocity.
Hope this helps a little. Good luck with it.


----------



## People (Jan 17, 2005)

You can use 223 cassings you just have to cut them short then size them in a 300 Whisper or "300/221fireball"

You may want to check out http://www.quarterbore.net/forums/index.php? there are two sections that talk about what you want to know.

In reguar rifle you can get more than 20 shots. You may need to aneal every so often.

A midget, a rabbi, and a horse all walk into a bar. Ah, **** it. Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked all their *****.


----------



## USMC (Jun 13, 2006)

The rifle is the first bigger than a 22 rimfire for my daughter and I want to have an easy to shoot decent size/bore rifle with little kick and blast.

To me, with a 30 cal bore, it seems to be an extremely versatile round as to bullet weight, selection, and velocity.

I wonder if anyone ever used one of those rounds that use a 22 caliber bullet in a plastic sleeve made for 30 caliber barrels.
I used those when I was shooting my 50 cal Muzzle loader using 44 cal modern bullets.

And I figured with her first "serious" center fire rifle, we could learn to reload as well, so it will be minimum loads and pressures to keep it subsonic regardless of the bullet used.


----------



## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I have never used any of the Sabo's to bring a 30cal down to 22cal. What I have read on the subject they are lacking in the accuracy department.

On that other board they all stick to the 220 and 240gr bullets unless they are going to hunt deer with it then they go to a lighter bullet to get more spead.

Chuck Norris' smile can blind a full-grown adult at twenty paces and has been known to deflect all projectile weapons, including rocket launchers.


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

Reloading is great fun, and it gives you the ability to taylor your loads for your needs. If you plann of useing lower pressure loads you will get many reloads out of your brass. Just a thought, are you planning on a contender carbine for this project, or going with a rebarrel of an existing gun. And I would like to put in a plug for the 7mm tcu for a great low recoiling first "big" gun. I have started off several people with this in a TC carbine and the bullet choice is very broad. It requires just running 223 brass through a tappered expander, most all tcu dies have a tappered expander, prime , drop some powder and cap with bullet choice and you have an easy to load, cheap brass, low recoiling, first centerfire gun that will take anything from gophers to deer and is so gentil that you can shoot all day and hardly even know it. I would think that 175gr bullets would tend to hold their velosity fairly well, and the 115gr bullets will expand out past 200yds on varmits, with the 120gr bullets being just about perfect for deer. With a contender frame, you could have both for the cost of an extra barrel.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> You can use 223 cassings you just have to cut them short then size them in a 300 Whisper or "300/221fireball"


I didn't know that. That sure makes that round more tempting. Do you know if military brass will work satisfactorily?


----------



## People (Jan 17, 2005)

From what I have read on that subject about using Mil brass is it can be used but you may need to neck turn your brass depending on your gun. Most people that use 223 cut down brass use Federal as it tends to be thinner in that area. If I ever get one I will certainly try mil brass first as it is almost free.

Chuck Norris frequently donates blood to the Red Cross. Just never his own.


----------



## USMC (Jun 13, 2006)

Whelen35 said:


> Just a thought, are you planning on a contender carbine for this project, or going with a rebarrel of an existing gun.


We, or I should say she, is going to purchase a new rifle when she turns 18 so it would need to be all set up "stock".



Whelen35 said:


> And I would like to put in a plug for the 7mm tcu for a great low recoiling first "big" gun. I have started off several people with this in a TC carbine and the bullet choice is very broad. It requires just running 223 brass through a tapered expander, most all tcu dies have a tapered expander, prime, drop some powder and cap with bullet choice and you have an easy to load, cheap brass, low recoiling, first centerfire gun that will take anything from gophers to deer and is so gentile that you can shoot all day and hardly even know it.


Is the 7 mm tcu a subsonic?
What I have learned recently about subsonics makes me a believer in them.

http://www.lasc.us/RangingShotLongWhisper.htm

And ease of reloading is a good thing for us as we are just starting out, although, if I can rebuild engines, automatic transmissions, run a milling machine and lathe, and build a MegaSquirt EFI computer I doubt it will be all that hard to figure with a good book on the subject, and the help of a good forum, like this one.



Whelen35 said:


> With a contender frame, you could have both for the cost of an extra barrel.


The contender does seem to be an extremely versatile gun and so far is at the top of a short list (a list of one so far).


----------



## USMC (Jun 13, 2006)

Plainsman said:


> > You can use 223 cassings you just have to cut them short then size them in a 300 Whisper or "300/221fireball"
> 
> 
> I didn't know that. That sure makes that round more tempting. Do you know if military brass will work satisfactorily?


They say the militaqry 223 brass is thicker on the bottom where the 221 head, (or would that be the base?) might seperate after (excessive) multiple reloadings.


----------



## USMC (Jun 13, 2006)

People said:


> From what I have read on that subject about using Mil brass, If I ever get some I will certainly try mil brass first as it is almost free.


Free/cheap brass is a good thing, :beer:

but what's up with the Chuck Norris obsesion?



People said:


> Chuck Norris frequently donates blood to the Red Cross. Just never his own.
> 
> Chuck Norris' smile can blind a full-grown adult at twenty paces and has been known to deflect all projectile weapons, including rocket launchers.
> 
> A midget, a rabbi, and a horse all walk into a bar. Ah, &#%* it. Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked all their a$$es.


----------



## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

USMC, be careful when taking Chuck's name in vain....never doubt Chuck. If you do he will surely roundhouse kick you so hard your new screen name will end up USN. I dont know about you but I dont think I would like that name..... :lol: :beer: Sorry I couldnt resist.


----------



## People (Jan 17, 2005)

The main difference in brass from the Government and Commercial is the Gov brass is thicker and harder to allow for higher pressures. When you have a thicker web the area just forward of the extraction grove/head area your brass can last longer especially if you are over working your casing by over resizing and firing. Commercial brass also may not need to be annealed when forming the brass where Gov brass may need to be.

All annealing does is return the brass to a dead soft state. DO NOT ANNEAL THE WHOLE CASSING!!!! IT COULD HURT OR KILL YOU. AT THE VERY LEAST HURT YOUR PRIDE.

http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html This is a great read for a how to on annealing

Jiffy that was great 'roundhouse kick you so hard your new screen name will end up USN" To USMC I am a Marine and that is funny. At least it is not the Chair Force. To all that were in or are in the Air Force I giving you a little grief because I love you guys and gals.

The Chuck Norris thing come on it is good stuff. Just a little bit of humor does a body good. Just keep this in mind.

You all know there are two types of Marines? Reservists and those that want to be. OK not that funny but when you are active it is.

If you can see Chuck Norris, he can see you. If you can't see Chuck Norris you may be only seconds away from death.

I like that one.


----------



## Jiffy (Apr 22, 2005)

Agreed!!!


----------



## USMC (Jun 13, 2006)

Jiffy said:


> USMC, be careful or your new screen name will end up USN.


HA! :lol: 
That's a good one!

:sniper: ------------------------------- 
Here Chucky, Chucky, Chucky!

click/puft, s,s,s,s,s,s,s,s,s,s,SSSSSSSSPT!!!!!

GOTCHA!


----------



## Whelen35 (Mar 9, 2004)

The 7-tcu can be loaded subsonic if you shose to do so with 160-175gr bullets likely giveing you the best results. In a factory stock gun, if you want the 300 whisper you can go with a m-16 ar-15 with an upper so chambered, but I know of no other options for this unless a re-barrel job on an action that you alrady have. A Contender carbine with one barrel could be found for $400.00 or less if you are lucky. A second barrel used for the 7-tcu could be found for $150-175 I would think. You culd also have a 22lr barrel 7-30waters, 223, 410 shotgun and several others. The thing is same trigger, weight, and if you put the same scope on each barrel, the same sight picture. Also, reloading is not very diffucult. It is fun, and you are in control so you can to a point, make things work the way you want. With the same contender frame, you can put on a handgun grip, a forend for a pistol length barrel, a 10,12,14,or 16 inch barrel and get into shooting handguns. Very versital and easy to convert form one to the other. Find someone who has a few and let her try it. Ultimatly it is her decision on what works and fits for her.


----------



## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

A bolt action 7.62x39 is another good choice for mild recoil. I'd expect that it could also easily be loaded sub-sonic. If you found a rifle that would shoot surplus ammo reletively well you'd be in business. You could shoot a couple thousand rounds per summer and it wouldn't cost you $200. You could get some brass cases and load lighter bullets if she wanted to hunt with it. I believe you can get a 7.62x39 in a bolt action from CZ, Charles Daly, and Interarms used to import one on their mini-mark X.


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Good choices all around. I mean the cartridge, the desire to handload, but most importantly the desire to include your daughter. GOOD FOR YOU!

It's easy to make whisper brass from .223. Probably the easiest I've ever made, at least that requires cutting, anyway.

Doesn't matter if you want to use cheaper (not to be confused with inferior) military brass as long as you either decide before you work up your load, or at least remember to keep separate load info for the mil. cases as they will most likely need less powder to duplicate chamber pressure and velocity, so you need to be careful to not substitute data for a commercial case.

I use Rem brass in my contender because I'd rather pay a little more instead of removing the primer crimp. Use lighter bullets for deer hunting. I prefer 125gr Nosler balistic tips. 18.5 gr of H-110 easily gets over 2200fps in my 15" barrel with absolutely no pressure signs, and brass life could be indefinite. Could get 2300 I'm sure but don't see any point to. Remember to increase powder charge in smaller increments than what would normally be done for larger capacity cases since it is such a small case.

Accuracy is great. I took mine to WY in July and got prairie dogs at 214 and 230 yards, and I'm not a good pistol shooter. Consensus is the 125gr balistic tip is awesome on deer out to 150yds. I haven't hunted with mine yet so I have no personal experience to pass on.


----------



## Csquared (Sep 5, 2006)

Hey USMC,

You may want to go to Quarterbore like suggested. Talk to "320". He shoots an AR in 300/221. The reason I say that is I think (my opinion) sub-sonic would be a mistake for hunting, unless you go with the big bullets. If you're thinking that way for the sake of recoil, I would bet it's a wash to compare a 125gr @ 2200fps to a 240gr @ roughly 1000fps. Either load in a small, light rifle will kick about as little as anything you could come up with that will still kill a deer.

The reason I echo the suggestion to go to Quarterbore is that there are a lot of sub-sonic guys there, and they can talk of their experience. I have only a hunch that small bullets @ sub-sonic velocity would not be effective for deer hunting. Bullet probably wouldn't expand much, if at all, and may not even punch through the deer. The guys at QB could also tell you how BIG bullets, sub-sonic, work on game as many have and DO hunt with those bullets. I think most shoot head shots.

Anyway, there is very little recoil with a 125gr @ hunting velocities (in a rifle) and the bullet has been tested rather extensively by now. Just for your info, recoil in my contender seems very similar to my 10" .221 Fireball barrel (same contender frame) with 50gr bullets @ 2650fps, but muzzle blast with the whisper is not as severe.

For what it's worth. Good luck......C


----------

