# number of non res. licenses sold vs pressure



## tclark4140 (Aug 8, 2006)

here is the official number of non resident waterfowl lic sold per year for the lst 5 yrs.
2005..............25,455
2006..............23,138
2007..............23,490
2008..............18,976
2009..............22,363
according to this the past 2 years the pressure should have been alot less than the prior 3 years. i also think if u go back before 2005 the numbers are even higher for a couple of years. so there must be other factors that make it seem like more pressure than the non resident hunters.
i was very surprised to see the number this low actually. enjoy the holidays


----------



## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

:fiddle:


----------



## H2OfowlND (Feb 10, 2003)

Two words for you.....LAND ACCESS.

H2OfowlND


----------



## tclark4140 (Aug 8, 2006)

i couldnt agree more, but in my visits with the farmers, non who had there ground posted cared if we hunted waterfowl, but asked us not to hunt/shoot any pheasants. and many said they had it posted to stop the phesant and deer hunting. not waterfowl. so i assume from this that the farmer posts his ground for other reasons that ducks and geese. so the access to me is still there a person just has to ask


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

tclark4140 said:


> i couldnt agree more, but in my visits with the farmers, non who had there ground posted cared if we hunted waterfowl, but asked us not to hunt/shoot any pheasants. and many said they had it posted to stop the phesant and deer hunting. not waterfowl. so i assume from this that the farmer posts his ground for other reasons that ducks and geese. so the access to me is still there a person just has to ask


Did you ask every farmer in ND or just the area where you hunt. You cannot take a small sample of people and say that is the case everywhere in the state. If you don't want to know the answers, don't ask the questions! Also, just because the waterfowl hunting is better that Iowa, don't assume that it is great for ND. Just an observation!!


----------



## hunter52 (Dec 16, 2005)

And people wonder why ND has no ducks with all this nice weather the migration can't be over. I would move south too if I got shot at on every pot hole, every day or busted off my roosting spot. Doesn't take rocket science to figure that out. 22,000 out of staters will scare a lot of ducks out of your own state.


----------



## tclark4140 (Aug 8, 2006)

your right we hunted zone 2 only, and that is what i m refering to. as for a comparison of iowa and n.d., u cant compare i guess. i have 2 state run marshes with in a half hour of me, they estimate 4000-5000 ducks each. and a few little areas with maybe a 100 ducks coming and going.
and usually 10 to 30 hunters on each one. that is pressure. happy holidays


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

tclark4140 said:


> here is the official number of non resident waterfowl lic sold per year for the lst 5 yrs.
> 2005..............25,455
> 2006..............23,138
> 2007..............23,490
> ...


The numbers were higher before 2005 because they had not split the upland from waterfowl.Both had the same license with an extra $10 for the waterfowl.So a lot of NR paid the extra $10 just in case.Which means there were a lot of people who bought the $10 license but did not hunt waterfowl.

2008's numbers were down because of drought.2009 numbers were up because of the high amount of water and record breeding ducks.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

KEN W said:


> The numbers were higher before 2005 because they had not split the upland from waterfowl.Both had the same license with an extra $10 for the waterfowl.So a lot of NR paid the extra $10 just in case.Which means there were a lot of people who bought the $10 license but did not hunt waterfowl.


Well noted. That did skew some of the numbers for years.


----------



## 9erfan (Oct 18, 2007)

#22,363/9weeks (length of nr waterfowl season)=2485 nr/week

assuming that most nr's go to ND during the first half of the season

22,363/5 weeks= 4969 nr/week thru approx mid Nov.

not knowing what the exact breakout is, somewhere between the two numbers is probably accurate (excluding opening week) for the average # of NR hunters across the ENTIRE STATE.

don't know how many res licenses were sold this year, but that would be an interesting comparison.

BTW, flew back from Edmonton yesterday and there was NO SNOW on the ground anywhere to be seen! Still waiting for the migration in SE SD...


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

9erfan......you aren't taking into consideration the fact that many of those 22,000 came twice.I would guess at least 1/2 of those licenses are from Minn.They usually divide thier license into 2 seven day periods.Others from farther away come once for 7 days.

Adding 1/2 of that number would be another 11,000 hunters in the field.....big difference.


----------



## tclark4140 (Aug 8, 2006)

no argument on any of the number crunching, buttttt, alot of us come for 3-5 days only also. that might be an intersting thread as well HOW MANY DAYS DID YOU HUNT N.D THIS AS A NON RESIDENT.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

"HOW MANY DAYS DID YOU HUNT N.D THIS AS A NON RESIDENT"
I have never spent over 5 days hunting there at a time. 
This year I hunted 8/14 and my day was 8/14 as well.
The other three in our crew were:
1 of 14 
3 of 14 
3 of 14
My guess is fuel prices impacted 2008 as well. Maybe not as much for the blue platers but for some Illinois, east coast, texas and guys like that. 
But on that note, guys from further away may have just went to ND vs. Canada to make up for the cost.


----------



## Kris brantner (Sep 22, 2009)

wow, you guys really need to quit whining. im sick of everyone talking about this. grew up and accept the fact that you guys have the premier duck hunting venue in the states. 22363x100 is $2,236,300 just off of nr licence sales. not to mention what people spend in gas food lodging, we have the right just as much as you guys do. can you imagine what the "Pressure" would be if we could hunt more than 2 weeks?


----------



## 9erfan (Oct 18, 2007)

but even when I lived in Mn (under duress :beer: ) I could go to ND only once per year and my average trip over the last 8 years has been 3 days. so if half of the 22k went back, then

33k/9wks = 3600 nr/wk

but hey, i was a history major way back when. cut me some slack!!

8)


----------



## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

I'm probably getting pretty close to 30 days hunting in ND so far this year as a NR and know plenty of others like me.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

Just to add to the sample. The guys at our place hunted opening weekend (sat and sun) with 4 guys and never made it back. 
Some friends who hunt nearby hunted 3 days with 3 guys and a fourth who paid for a license but couldn't go.
My father-in-law went three days but still has dates open to return; not sure if he will.
So based on family and close friends we avg. about 2.7 days this year. Most of these guys are busy with younger families and its easy to get there from MN for 2-3 days so we don't really represent all the college aged groups going up or the guys who travel a ways to get there.


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Kris brantner said:


> we have the right just as much as you guys do.


 :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

No comment.


----------



## GKBassplayer (Feb 19, 2008)

Im 20+ days 8) 
Still plenty more left...


----------



## Kris brantner (Sep 22, 2009)

barebackjack said:


> Kris brantner said:
> 
> 
> > we have the right just as much as you guys do.
> ...


:fiddle:


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Kris brantner said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > Kris brantner said:
> ...


 :koolaid:

Silly sconie.


----------



## water_swater (Sep 19, 2006)

Boys,

I have a new idea and here's a story that helped me think of it. I'm a teacher and have a student who loves to hunt tell me this story. He noticed some ducks using a slough in a pasture he knows the landowner he is a neighbor and this farmer rents his families pasture from him. So he rides his 4 wheeler to the farmers place and asks him to hunt. The farmers reply was $100 a gun. I'm not trying to make him out to be a bad guy but that tells me there a problem.

Waterfowl Acres for Kids

I am hoping to form a group of locals to go speak with local landowners to get the land posted with access being granted as long as the group of hunters are from ND and accompanied by at least one person aged 18 or under. This would allow the families who work and kids are involved in activites to take their children hunting without the immense hassles the NR issue brings to my area. I would ask for a donation from each party thats hunts no matter how small. The money wold then be evenly distributed back to the landowners in the form of gift certificates from local businesses. I would also give the hunters the phone number of the landowner and ask them to call them thanking them.

Doing this would emphasize the impact of resident hunters, and also keep our resources for the people that live and work here. The landowners would get thank you's and some financial benefit and limit their hassles throughout the hunting season.

I realize there are many problems with this idea that have to be worked out, but I really think this is worth pursuing. Nobody is going to protect hunters interests. Those who profit carry too much weight and take the time it takes to lobby.

If you want to help and problem solve please pm me


----------



## Luv to Hunt (Oct 9, 2009)

I hoping I am not throwing some gas on the fire. We come out every year to the McClusky area. We rent a home from a local person usually for 6 days at 25.00 dollars a night per man. We eat at the local cafe (very good too) and buy gas a the local Cenex, scouting takes lots of gas. We bring presents for the local farmers, nothing fancy but we all pitch in and buy something nice. They treat us like family and we have had many times standing at the gas station or cafe some one see us in our hunting gear and ask how we are doing. We have struck up conversations and sometimes they invite us out to there places. We know how special this place is and we also know it is hard to make a living. We do ok and make pretty good money but we have to live in places where the factories and urban areas make up the landscape. Many of us saw family farms swallowed up and hunting land dwindle to nothing. We all get excited and start chattering like school boys when we turn off the interstate ( our average age is 60). I think it is because we see how things use to be, guns aren't bad, hunting is a way of life, people aren't in a maze so they can actually talk to each other. I can not tell you how refreshing it is to never have to stop at a traffic light for a week. I do have to admit I almost received a ticket for going over the speed limit in town, I was hurrying to get to the cafe before 8:00. The waitress was upset with us the night before because we came in at 7:50. He was a young police officer and after I fumbled around with my license I was sure I was going to get a ticket. He came back and gave me a stern warning that it is 25 in town and and I got teased the rest of the week. It does all of us good to get away and it is something we look forward to all year. I already have the nick name Parnelli Jones back home.

Now the bad news, I some times get on here and I like to read on what 's happening before we come and there are threads that really bash non residents. Here is a little reality, 
Sheridan County 
Median household income
$24,450
National
$41,994
Source: 2000 census, U.S. Census Bureau
Total population 1,710 
Square miles (land) 971.75 
Population per square mile 1.76 79.56 United States Average
Home Values
Median value ($) 27,800 111,800 United States Average
I have a feeling many of the people we talk to when we are out there are not posting about non residents but hoping even more might come out. A 1.76 person per square mile is not saturation and hunters are not going to jump that up to even 3 or 4 per square mile, do the math. I am not going to lecture but just present facts, bread and fuel costs the same at the national average of 41,994 as it does for Sheridan average of 24,450. Money that comes in from nonresident hunters helps support this economy by using services listed above. Just something to think about before you bash a source of income for an entire community. 
Don't kill the messenger and maybe we can have a cup of coffee sometime


----------



## Kris brantner (Sep 22, 2009)

o god, you named a town. curse you! i think you are right on :thumb:


----------



## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

Actually as long as someone brought it up, I would like to know if they keep stats on how many R licenses they sell to NR college students. My guess is back 6-7 years ago not that many kids new about this and the number of sales wasn't nearly as high as it is now. Hell now it is a main reason a lot of kids come to school in ND. They will tell you as much.

Not saying I blame them, that's their right. I'm just curious how many of these licenses are sold. Because I would bet my paycheck that these people hunt many more days than the average working resident.


----------



## Colt (Oct 25, 2007)

Where I hunt, there is NO increased pressure. It's stayed the same for the past couple decades actually. Maybe some feel crowded in certain areas, but if one is willing to look, he will find all the elbow room and birds one needs.


----------



## Blue Plate (Jul 31, 2006)

As a NR I only hunted 5 days.

Hunting pressure is going down or stay the same. The numbers tell the truth not anecdotal evidence by a few buy who perceive the hunting pressure to be high. E


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

Floyd - 
I wasn't aware a lot of NR students come up there mainly for duck hunting. You always hear of kids going to SD for the hunting but I didn't know ND had that trend as well and I am not being sarcastic. Let us know if you find the results. With UND and NDSU not really being in the flyway, what other schools are popular with duck hunters?


----------



## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

BB said:


> With UND and NDSU not really being in the flyway, what other schools are popular with duck hunters?


The pickup gets a lot of miles...


----------



## Fred_Bear (Oct 24, 2008)

USAlx50 said:


> BB said:
> 
> 
> > With UND and NDSU not really being in the flyway, what other schools are popular with duck hunters?
> ...


true story! and getting on posted land seems almost non-existent around here


----------



## Nick Roehl (Mar 7, 2002)

Colt said:


> Where I hunt, there is NO increased pressure. It's stayed the same for the past couple decades actually. Maybe some feel crowded in certain areas, but if one is willing to look, he will find all the elbow room and birds one needs.


I am so sick of hearing your BS, obviously you hunt in a fantasy land that is invisible to all hunters. No increased pressure, ducks and geese everywhere, no posted land, sounds beautiful and non-existent.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

I don't know if I can buy that although non-res #'s are slightly down from 3-4 yrs ago that a word has got out among high school seniors deciding on colleges that has made a significant # of them choose to go to college in ND. With that they are hunting more days resulting in more pressure and less land access. I am guessing it has always attracted a few kids and always will but I can't believe enough of them (compared to 6-7 yrs ago) to impact pressure across the whole state. Maybe someone will come up with data that will prove otherwise.

If I were choosing a college based on duck hunting I would do SD (or maybe southern ND?) but I wouldn't pic Fargo or GF where things duck season sometimes is cut short by halloween if duck hunting were my MAIN reason for attending a school. With that I wouldn't pick a school centered around more sugarbeet fields than prairie potholes. And most of it were my MAIN reason for choosing the school I wouldnt choose either of the two because they are too close to MN.

Has ND had the crazy tuition hikes like MN has? It always seems like the news is talking about MN schools going crazy but I haven't heard about ND. I guess with some reciprocity you could possibly go to school in Fargo for less than you could in Moorhead? Hmm? Grad school isn't sounding too bad.

My vote if there are in FACT more non-res days being hunted is that guys in MN and WI are fed up with their hunting to the point that they are doing less hunting at home and using more days than normal or even their 14 allowed days to hunt ducks. It seems like more guys are saying they'll go to MB or SK 2-3 times and skip hunting down here at all when they probably started going up there one time per season. 
My observation has been that the biggest boat parades are still on Wednesday afternoons and Sunday morning meaning Thurs-Sat is the avg amount of days MN guys spend in ND.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

Colt - I can't believe we didn't see each other scouting this yr because I hunt fantasyland as well. 8 days (5 or 6 of which were A fields) and no one beat us to fields along with hunting on a lot of unposted land and easily obtained permission on the others. I remember the old days of getting to a field in ND at 4 am just to secure it incase someone else tried to hunt but it's something we don't have to worry about anymore. 
A season to remember...that's for sure.


----------



## Flick (Aug 21, 2002)

Speaking as a NR student; I wish the game and fish would get rid of the rule which allows people like me to have residency in both states.

When I think about how much I hunt myself, there's a lot of fields getting burned up that otherwise wouldn't be. Then to think about all the other people on campus out hunting, that's A LOT of extra pressure that wasn't around a few years ago.

I met some kids just the other day out hunting that said "The only reason I came to NDSU was to hunt". I'm sure they're not alone.


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

BB said:


> I remember the old days of getting to a field in ND at 4 am just to secure it incase someone else tried to hunt but it's something we don't have to worry about anymore.
> A season to remember...that's for sure.


It still happens.

In the "good old days" the second group kept driving. Now, they come sit in your lap.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

Bareback - knock on wood but I haven't had it happen other than one time early goose about 5 yrs ago. 
Hearing about it even well into saskatchewan this year; Sad. Luckily we had guys up there respect it and move on to another place.


----------



## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

I have been going to ND as a NR for 8 or 9 years now...I can't really remember what year I started but it was around then.

The most I have hunted on any given year in ND as a NR is 5 days total. We always go for at least 3 but never more than 5

We have never had an issue with preassure or posted land. This year we saw people driving around at night scouting but come the next morning they were nowhere to be found. We didn't hardly even hear any other shots.

We got our "A" feild every day and only got to the feild about an hour before shooting time.

So from my prespective I have no idea what people are complaining about.


----------



## Colt (Oct 25, 2007)

Wingmaster said:


> Colt said:
> 
> 
> > Where I hunt, there is NO increased pressure. It's stayed the same for the past couple decades actually. Maybe some feel crowded in certain areas, but if one is willing to look, he will find all the elbow room and birds one needs.
> ...


How is this BS? Seriously? You don't hunt with me so you wouldn't know. I never said I get into the geese, I do get a lot of ducks. Most of the land IS posted. I ask and almost always get permission to hunt DUCKS. Often I'm asked not to shoot pheasants.

So when I say I don't get crowded where I hunt, that's BS? Why is it sooooooooooooooo hard for some of you to believe that elbow room is available in ND?

If you read all of the posts, you'll read that there are others that share my same feelings that there are places within ND's borders that are not overrun with hunters.


----------



## Dunk221999 (Sep 11, 2002)

Floyd- Very interesting observation.

That would be interesting data to see. I have no thoughts on whether the numbers have increased or not. However, 5 of my friends little brothers (all NR's that buy the RS license) go to NDSU, UND, and Jamestown. In reviewing the number of pictures they send my way, I would venture that each of them hunt 5 out of 7 days per week during the early goose and waterfowl hunting seasons. It is nothing for them to drive an hour and a half to 2 hours for hunting every single morning (or skipping a few classes to make it a 3 day week hunt) when they have mommy and daddy's credit card.

I'm not saying that is the reason they chose their place of education, however they sure are enjoying the resident privlages.

Would be interesting to know how they put all those birds in their bellies to stay legal .

I would enjoy hearing your thoughts around whether you think this would have any impact on ducks holding in the state.


----------



## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

I just know that the number of guys on the NDSU and UND campuses who hunt A LOT is much higher than most of you would think. I have no idea what the actual number is. Part of my point was that since you all want to keep beating the "the NR license sales are going down" drum, we need to take these licenses into account also. I could be mistaken but I believe ND started this program around 2002-2003 or so. Naturally as word spreads the number of people taking advantage will grow over the years.

As far as kids choosing SD over ND for college so they can hunt, which state gets more hype? I think that ND gets far more kids coming here looking for the hunting. Unposted land, resident licenses, 15 internet sites publicizing it.....etc. There are posts here every year asking which school in ND to go to for hunting.....

Dunk22, your example is precisely what I'm talking about.

Flick would know, since he's been in school for 8 years.....lol.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

5 out of 7 days per week from early goose thru general waterfowl season. Wow! 1.5 - 2 hrs every morning. Dedicated. Not to mention finding the fields the night before and scouting new areas. Are these guys full time students or is there a requirement to actually be full time to get in state benefits? If so, I am guessing it's not policed too tight.


----------



## Dunk221999 (Sep 11, 2002)

They are "considered" full-time, however during the hunting season they play plenty of hookie!

I agree 100%..... it is rediculous!!!!!


----------



## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

I think we are blowing this whole school thing out of proportion.

between the two schools what is there 30,000 kids?

Say half are woman (the number of female duck hunters is small enough we can take it out of the equation for simplicity)

so we are left with 15,000 men

how many of those 15,000 men hunt ducks? lets just say 50% of them hunt ducks in ND (that is prolly a high but lets just say)

So we have concluded that 7,500 between NDSU/UND students hunt ducks in ND

what you really need to wrap your head around is how many of those 7500 duck hunters were ND residents before going to college??

so lets say there is 3500 NR students that get to buy a RES license.

not that big of deal if you ask me.

I hunted near one of those schools this year and found plenty of birds to hunt. We didn't hammer limits everyday but we had good hunts.

I will however say that those 3500 do hunt a many many more (FLICKNASTY :beer: )days than the avg NR hunter cough GET DONE WITH SCHOOL cough haha


----------



## Colt (Oct 25, 2007)

How are these kids coming up with the money for gas, shells, decoys, etc?

When I went to school, I was always broke, always working when not in class, and had no free time. I must have been doing it all wrong.


----------



## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

Ok so 3500 brings the number to 27k or so. So if another 3k can be scratched from ndscs, mayville st, lake region, vcsu, trinity bible, jamestown, und bottineau, minot st, bismarck st, u of mary, und williston, dickinson st, and others the number is suddenly 30k. I just want to know the number, because these students rake, don't kid yourself. There has never been 30k true waterfowl nr's to my knowledge. I'm just saying it needs to be considered.


----------



## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

Colt said:


> How are these kids coming up with the money for gas, shells, decoys, etc?
> 
> When I went to school, I was always broke, always working when not in class, and had no free time. I must have been doing it all wrong.


Priorities...trust me, if there's a will, there's a way.
I hunted A LOT when I was at UND with a couple die-hards. I still managed to graduate in 4 years and scratched out a 3.2 GPA. Could it have been higher had I not gone hunting as much? Probably... but all work and no play make Jack a dull boy, if you know what I mean :wink:


----------



## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Flick said:


> I met some kids just the other day out hunting that said "The only reason I came to NDSU was to hunt". I'm sure they're not alone.


And there's plenty of us still in school because of hunting :beer:


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Colt said:


> How are these kids coming up with the money for gas, shells, decoys, etc?
> 
> When I went to school, I was always broke, always working when not in class, and had no free time. I must have been doing it all wrong.


Man, you rally are behind the times.

Its easy when you got daddys credit card in your wallet! These are the same kids you see at a DU banquet with daddys checkbook! $780 dollars worth of tickets so they can brag they won a dozen hot buys! :lol:

I work at NDSU. I dont know where kids get the money (I can only guess from ma and pa), but hardly any of them work.


----------



## GKBassplayer (Feb 19, 2008)

barebackjack said:


> Its easy when you got daddys credit card in your wallet! These are the same kids you see at a DU banquet with daddys checkbook! $780 dollars worth of tickets so they can brag they won a dozen hot buys! :lol:
> 
> I work at NDSU. I dont know where kids get the money (I can only guess from ma and pa), but hardly any of them work.


a) I am a chair member of the NDSU DU chapter, average dollars spent per person at a banquet is $100.

b) Most people I know have jobs (everyone of my hunting buddies has a job and the ones that dont do plasma or both!) this is my first semester without one and thats only because I saved enough money over the summer to give up my crappy $7/hr job during the school year.

No saying college kids aren't getting money form mom and dad but I think you are blowing it out of proportion.

I dont know about most people but this year I gave up going to the bar so I can hunt a little more. People think nothing of spending $60 at the bar over the weekend but for $60 I can split gas, buy shells, and buy a case of beer for when Im staying home on a friday night so I can get up early to hunt the weekend.


----------



## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

GKBassplayer said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > Its easy when you got daddys credit card in your wallet! These are the same kids you see at a DU banquet with daddys checkbook! $780 dollars worth of tickets so they can brag they won a dozen hot buys! :lol:
> ...


Have you cut back on your skateboard buying too?


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Another thing.... People are calling these students hunters NR... They are not if the state gives them a Resident privilages. If these students could only hunt 14 days and not the R opener....they are NR's. But if they have the rights/privilages of a Resident..... They are a resident hunters.

But seeing out of state plates when they could be many of the college students hunting. Then stating an area is over run by NR hunters when a % of them could be college students. So like a number that is not too far off.... 6000 college students hunting a couple days a week. And these college students have out of state plates....so people will blame the NR hunter when in fact it could be college students.

It is something to think about.

I do get the fact that they are not from ND.....but if they have the same rights as people from ND.....they should be considered R hunters.


----------



## GKBassplayer (Feb 19, 2008)

USAlx50 said:


> GKBassplayer said:
> 
> 
> > barebackjack said:
> ...


I do not and never have I owned a skateboard. I still dont know where you guys came up with that.. apparently they make effective weapons against specks however.


----------



## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

They are NR's. Period. Who gives a crap what their privileges are? They are NR's who don't get counted. Eight years ago the total number of NR true waterfowl hunters was probably in the low 20k's. There was no such thing as the student law. Now the "count" is about 24k PLUS the students. Not to mention the fact that these students hunt ALL THE TIME. Read the thread. There are a bunch of them telling u as much right here.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

Don't rip a kid for giving $780 for a dozen hot buys when it goes to the ducks.
I just graduated in 03 and I don't think I knew any kids who had this much freedom with parents, profs, and everything else.
NDSU and UND only have about 12,000 NR students. now lets call half (6,000) males and factor in everything reduces that # of hunters. Since I graduated in 03 we've seen significantly higher fuel costs and college tuition, etc. Factor in people that just don't hunt, tighter gun restrictions on even having a gun in your pickup, party animals that drink 4-5 nights a week, the money it takes to have a good spread, scouting money, blinds, plat books, and the lanyard full of $150 calls. Factor in the granolas, antis, bookworms, fall athletes, winter athletes, football fans, poor college kids, guys who work a lot, bow hunting freaks, pre med or pre anything students that can't skip much class or don't want to, along with pooty whipped 20 yr olds who have to go to hollister with their girlfriend on Saturdays and you've taken a good chunk of people from that 6000. 
How many male non-res students per 100 would you guys who are in those schools say you randomly come across that really get out and put a dent in the duck population. Not your close hunting buddies or the kid in class with the 4 bluebill stickers on his pickup but guys who really do it. Try and consider the computer science/math double major from mpls as well as the farm kid from Fergus Falls.
I can't argue there are not a few kids really doing it right on mom and dads dime but I have to ? how many thousand.


----------



## Duckslayer100 (Apr 7, 2004)

USAlx50 said:


> Flick said:
> 
> 
> > I met some kids just the other day out hunting that said "The only reason I came to NDSU was to hunt". I'm sure they're not alone.
> ...


That was my reasoning! And I'm still here...couldn't leave God's country after tasting the sweet life! How could anyone leave N.D.?! Boggles my mind...

Actually, UND was the only school I applied to. Never really wanted to go to college, but with the thought of being able to hunt and fish right out my back door, it was just the motivation I needed. So I guess, you could say, hunting helped me earn my degree! Yet another reason to introduce young people to the great outdoors :wink:


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> They are NR's. Period. Who gives a crap what their privileges are? They are NR's who don't get counted. Eight years ago the total number of NR true waterfowl hunters was probably in the low 20k's. There was no such thing as the student law. Now the "count" is about 24k PLUS the students. Not to mention the fact that these students hunt ALL THE TIME. Read the thread. There are a bunch of them telling u as much right here.


I understand they are not living in the state full time. But if they have priviliges the same as R hunters.... They are considered R hunters.

If a student can only hunt 14 days then you can classify them in the NR category in reguards to License sales. But they can hunt the whole season. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

If you want to put them in the category of NR (with resident privilages).......then you have to put the time in the field as a R hunter..... ie the old song and dance of R hunters only hunt weekends.....wrong....these college hunters hunt 3-4-5-etc days of the week. They are the ones speaking on this thread. So the time afield has to be in the R hunter stats because that is what they can be like.....hunt the whole season.

Because a NR license holder can only hunt 2 -7 day periods.

-------------------- edit---------------------------------

When considering pressure college students need to be classified as Resident hunters because of the days they are alloted in the field. Period.
Since the days afield is what pressure is.....college kids can hunt just like resident hunters. They are not restricted like NR hunters.


----------



## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

GKBassplayer said:


> USAlx50 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you cut back on your skateboard buying too?
> ...


Just bustin your chops Al.


----------



## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

Chuck Smith said:


> > They are NR's. Period. Who gives a crap what their privileges are? They are NR's who don't get counted. Eight years ago the total number of NR true waterfowl hunters was probably in the low 20k's. There was no such thing as the student law. Now the "count" is about 24k PLUS the students. Not to mention the fact that these students hunt ALL THE TIME. Read the thread. There are a bunch of them telling u as much right here.
> 
> 
> I understand they are not living in the state full time. But if they have priviliges the same as R hunters.... They are considered R hunters.
> ...


LOL. Clearly we are going to disagree on this so I am going to just not comment further if I can help it because there is no point. They are NR's. They can have their hunting status eliminated or altered in a matter of a vote at the state level. Just like NR's.

To me NR pressure would be considered extra pressure put on the resource by people who are not residents of the state of ND. The students hours in the field are EXTRA pressure on top of the resident hunter numbers. They are not residents, and they do not fall in the category of NR license sales either.....

Chuck, like I've said before, you seem like a sharp enough guy, I just don't have the time or energy to argue with you when all you ever do is try to spin everything. All I am saying is that I would like to know how many NR students hunt under the student provision. Thats all. Have a nice day. My opinion is that the total number of hunters that are not residents of ND (Is that tamper proof enough for you?) has gone up over the last 8 years when you factor in the students. Everyone wants to point to the license sales numbers. The year before the student provision arrived the number of student licenses was ZERO. And the number of true NR waterfowl hunters was probably around 22-23k (my best guess). The waterfowl license was a $10 add-on to the pheasant license in the early 2000's, driving the number much higher. Now the "NR waterfowl license" number is 24k and there are X thousand students also hunting on top of that. That is my only point. If you want to try and twist the numbers and whatever else go right ahead.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

I am hearing you Floyd, thanks guys for a good debate. 
Is it safe to say the guys driving 15-20 hrs a week to get to fields (not sure if that includes scouting, tracking landowners, etc.) and hunting 5 days every week or what could amount to 75-100 days a year including spring lights is the extreme end of the extreme spectrum? I am not doubting it isn't done but I am doubting how often it is.
The whole idea of this group of extreme waterfowlers going from nil to 100's or 1000's is odd too combined with the fact that they have what seems to be no credit limit? My entire college experience was in the last decade during much better times and I went to school with some very wealthy kids at a private college here in MN and studied abroad with a large group from there, Notre Dame, and Boston College so I have been around my fair share of spoiled rich college kids. Never once did I see spending like some of you have described along with skipping class like others have. And to think that was during much better times in respect to disposable income, credit limits, and how much people were spending in general. I just honestly never have seen kids with a leash like that who actually used it. Seriously, are these dollars accounted for as resident spending or nonresident spending on the studies that analyze it?
Hopefully we can keep this thread civil but some people should be picketing outside your state U's dean of admissions office rather than worrying about us old guys who hunt ducks 3-8 days per year. That's it lets limit the # of non-res students who duck hunt per yr.


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

27% of NDSU is on scholarship a/o grants so some of them have GPAs to keep up and I am assuming a minimum amt of credit hrs to take. There are a couple of kids left in the class room all fall.
73% were awarded loans/on campus jobs so it looks like a few others are working and/or qualified for loans based on need and their maybe not so rich daddy's income.


----------



## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Some kids seem to have pretty much no limit to daddys money. Some kids work hard 8 months of the year just to pay for hunting season. Some pay the bills with student loans and work hard to pay for the hunting. Some work hard as they can in the off season, have loans, and still overspend during hunting season.

However it happens, it does.

For example, I'm a construction management major. I have 3 CM 400 level classes on fridays. The last two friday's basically all three classes were cancelled because of deer season. Thats NDSU for you. NDSUand UND are not the U of M, they aren't concordia, they aren't st johns or st thomas or even st cloud. Guys that choose to live in fargo or forks are very likely to be into the outdoors. They sure as hell aren't living here for the poon, liberal arts, or many of the other reasons you mentioned.

I hate to say it but within 100 miles of fargo, monday-sunday, IMO college kids put more stress on the waterfowl resource than any other group.


----------



## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

BB,

Yes I would imagine the numbers you are talking about are a little over the top. But I do bet there are many many college kids who hunt two days during the week and on the weekends.....

As for the money I have heard about guys who max out their credit card during fall and then have to sell stuff to pay for their hunts at the end of the year......

You and I arent real far apart in age and you have to admit, the lifestyle of today's 21 year old is a lot different than it was when we were 21. Credit cards, hundreds of fullbodies, trailers, 3/4 ton diesels.....come on, that stuff just didnt happen much when we were that age, at least not with my friends......


----------



## BB (Jan 14, 2004)

24 Bigfoots were a big spread at that age! 25 if you include the flare chair


----------



## GKBassplayer (Feb 19, 2008)

USAlx50 said:


> I hate to say it but within 100 miles of fargo, monday-sunday, IMO college kids put more stress on the waterfowl resource than any other group.


Brody for president. One of the things I sometimes ask when I hunt with a random person I met out scouting to hunt is what kind of job lets them hunt on a tuesday. I want that job someday.


----------



## Flick (Aug 21, 2002)

Jungda99 said:


> I will however say that those 3500 do hunt a many many more (FLICKNASTY :beer: )days than the avg NR hunter cough GET DONE WITH SCHOOL cough haha


Do I know you?


----------



## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

Bob Kellam posted this a while ago, it is a good link to see who spends what and why residents should have priority in their own state, outside of the fact that we live here year round and pay taxes here. When I NR hunt I play and pay by the rules of the state I choose to hunt in.

Here it is:http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/handle/23549


----------



## Kris brantner (Sep 22, 2009)

in the 8 years i have been coming out, only once did we run into another hunter. it was a huge field, and he short stopped us about an hour after we got into the field. other than that hardly anyone. and i hunt near one of the more popular areas in nd that people go to. not too hard to figure out that town.... and have never had a problem getting permission. its almost harder to get ahold of t he farmer, than to get permission on posted land. alot of the farmers had their phone number on the posted signs, just wanting to know who was on their land


----------



## Dunk221999 (Sep 11, 2002)

In reading this thread, I am confused as to how you can say there are too many non-resident hunters. And then say that the number of non-resident college students does not make a difference.

Seems illogical???


----------



## swift (Jun 4, 2004)

Floyd do a quick informal study. Google dakota hunting and see if more hits from ND or SD. Since there are 10 or more commercial operations per county with NO state outfitters license required anywhere I'd bet SD has more hits. People from the other states that check it out will also find there is more hunting in SD.


----------



## dosch (May 20, 2003)

> once did we run into another hunter


I call BS. Can't pull over and take Shi! in Ramsey County without seeing another hunter!


----------



## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

Could be, I have no clue. Are they waterfowl outfits or pheasant outfits though? I just never hear anyone saying they went to SD for college for the waterfowl hunting (but admittedly I wouldn't either).......


----------



## water_swater (Sep 19, 2006)

I am not a fan of unlimited non-residents, however, I think the college residency is exactly what we need. If you want to talk about gaining residents expose them to the hunting opportunities we have. These kids are living and working here 9 months, once they decide to take a job out of state they should lose the privilege. We should drop the hammer and have it a 7K licenses so people will actually have a reason to live here. Our tourism industry is about maxed out, its underutilized on place overran in others.

I was just reading about our oil industry in a few years they project 350,000 barrels a day. At 70 dollars a barrel thats like 27 million a day, if that happens I say we stop selling licenses period, write everyone who profits from hunting a check and say take the year off.


----------



## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

FLOYD said:


> Could be, I have no clue. Are they waterfowl outfits or pheasant outfits though? I just never hear anyone saying they went to SD for college for the waterfowl hunting (but admittedly I wouldn't either).......


Id go to northern state or SDSU for waterfowl before NDSU for waterfowl for sure.


----------



## FLOYD (Oct 3, 2003)

But obviously you didn't. My contention is that there is a lot more mainstream hype about the hunting in ND than SD. If you are a MN high school kid who can read all about the hunting and hear stories from everyone who comes back from ND all the time, your impression is that its awesome and thats where you will want to go, and while the hunting is great in SD, people don't hear about it near as much because a small fraction as many people hunt waterfowl as NR's there.

Just because there are a bunch of outfitter sites doesnt mean its more hyped. I don't recall there being anything like this site for SD. The ranking at the bottom of this page says 1 or 2 all the time.


----------



## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

> so lets say there is 3500 NR students that get to buy a RES license.


But then lets figure that most of these students are hunting 3-4 days a week (as I did in college as an ND resident), and are most likely hunting within 80 miles of there college residence. That is ALOT more pressure on birds. How many spots in a given area do some of you guys perceive to be out there?

It's hard for me to knock the program since a lot of the guys I hunt with now took advantage of the program, but there is definitely added pressure.

As for "full time" college students not having time to hunt... common. Think back to when you were in school. If you attend class when you don't hunt, get your **** done when your gone, and make sure you are prepared for exams college is cake. Doing everything you need to do to be a successful student shouldn't take 40 hrs per week, esspecially those first 2-3 years of school. I have a degree that most would considered relatively rigorous program and managed to get out in 4.5 years with a respectable GPA so don't tell me I'm full of it.


----------



## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Decoyer you and Flick are both full of it


----------



## Colt (Oct 25, 2007)

Decoyer said:


> > so lets say there is 3500 NR students that get to buy a RES license.
> 
> 
> But then lets figure that most of these students are hunting 3-4 days a week (as I did in college as an ND resident), and are most likely hunting within 80 miles of there college residence. That is ALOT more pressure on birds. How many spots in a given area do some of you guys perceive to be out there?
> ...


"esspecially" :lol:

WOW! And a 3.6 to boot! :lol:

Like I said earlier in this post. I didn't have time to hunt because I was working while going to school. It seems like it was that way for all my buddies also. But then again, maybe you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth." Esspecially"since you didn't have to work :lol:

I guess next, you guys will start bytchin' about all the Air Force guys. :eyeroll:


----------



## Decoyer (Mar 2, 2002)

Thank you grammar police. Your right, posting my personal GPA distracted from the point so I removed it.

I wasn't ripping on the college kids, hell I'm still that age myself. The fact that I'm graduated is just a technicality. Like I said, a lot of the guys I hunt with took advantage of this and that's how I got to know them so well. Where in my post did I say I was against college kids hunting in ND??? Don't kid yourself and think students don't hunt, some of the guys you are arguing with are students themselves. I was just proving a point.

Besides the point, your post contributes nothing. If you have an issue with me feel free to PM me, otherwise don't post if your not contributing.

Besides, I never clamed too be a english mager... esspecially :wink:


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Yea, but then there are guys like Flick that are on the fricken ten year plan..........guess which state he is from!!???? MN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :lol:


----------



## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

g/o said:


> Decoyer you and Flick are both full of it


Actually he is SPOT ON! Same thing with me! I got to know a lot of guys on this website "out in the field" during my & their college days!


----------



## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Good for you Maverick  I met a lot of guys "out in field" also. That being said Decoyer (alias siver spooner) and Flick (alias Chaz Hightower) are both full of crap. 8) If you don't believe me ask djleye.   Have a nice day


----------



## Maverick (Mar 4, 2002)

g/o said:


> Good for you Maverick  I met a lot of guys "out in field" also. That being said Decoyer (alias siver spooner) and Flick (alias Chaz Hightower) are both full of crap. 8) If you don't believe me ask djleye.   Have a nice day


Well you sure showd me didn't you?

Why should I ask Dan, when Monte is Zach's father? :wink:

You too...Have a NICER day!


----------



## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Ok.....so how did I get dragged into this?


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Holy crap, you raised a kide that hangs out with that MN dude on the 10 year plan at NDSU!!!!! :lol:


----------



## bioman (Mar 1, 2002)

A couple of points on pressure.

Plain and simple, the Internet has changed the face of waterfowl hunting. And not for the betterment of the sport and tradition. Daily hunting reports, pictures of limits, locales, and methods of hunting success are reported everywhere. This has led to both a proliferation of hunters traveling to out of state destinations and increased days in the field. The latter has significantly increased the amount of hunters daily and non-stop pressuring of birds for the entirety of the October month and into November.

When I was younger, most (not all) ND residents chased waterfowl on the weekends, teacherâ€™s convention, and holidays. Of course you had diehard hunters that would take vacation to hunt, but I donâ€™t recall that was the norm. Dependent on the location, birds could find areas to rest. As some may recall, the 1 PM daily goose closure was a direct response to all day hunting pressure on geese with a goal of keeping them in the state.

The much bigger issue is the commercialization of waterfowl hunting by todayâ€™s market hunters. Guides of today are market hunters reincarnated. The only thing that has changed is their marketing. Heck, they even have their own lobbyistâ€™s.

Both the commercialization and proliferation of market hunters has resulted in the entropy on display in ND. The equation is simple: more guides plus more land leased results in less opportunity for those not willing to pay. Those hunters not willing to pay for access or the services of a market hunter, end up in competition for areas with access including public lands. Those birds in these areas are under more pressure. The cycle continues.

Also overlooked in the previous discussion is the fact that a lot of the marked hunters are hunting for a majority of the season. And a direct result is the simple fact that market hunters put inferior and lazy hunters on birds either through superior hunting and calling skills or outstanding hunting properties.

I recently returned from a trip to Nebraska. We hunted a very large reservoir that is absolutely overrun by guides. During the week we hunted (and we skipped hunting the weekends), we counted at least six market hunters on the reservoir each day. The required minimum is four hunters per blind and simple math allows for an appreciation of the entropy caused by the local market hunters.

But at the end of the day, we, the sportsmen have only ourselves to blame. The proliferation of market hunters in ND is a direct result of the paying market place. Over the past 10 years, more and more of our fellow â€˜huntersâ€™ are willing to open up their wallet and pay market hunters the going rate. Truly shameful that one of the best and long-lived traditions is cheapened by our own brethren.


----------

