# Canadian health care



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

This is an interesting video on Canadian health care. Maybe all those people, "somebody knows" who likes the Canadian health care, have never actually needed to use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Kyoxy1u ... r_embedded


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I also like now the canadian goverment is having to over haul it because it is running in the red. Now if that is not painting on the wall I don't know what it. But again people will say look at sweden or what ever....then I bring up do they have the infra structure our nation has of roads, education, population size, taxes, tax based run goverment programs, etc. The answer is NO. So you can't compare them either.


----------



## cbas (Apr 3, 2007)

If you look hard enough you can also find You tube videos from people who have seen Elvis and believe in Santa.

We got some examples of people for whom the system didn't work, I guess universal healthcare or its variants must be bad. The rest of the industrialized world must all be off on this issue because of a few You tube videos. Maybe we should just get rid of metric too while we are at it .

And Chuck I don't see this over haul you are referring to. System here is far from perfect but we do just fine and we do it more efficiently ta' boot.

As for the comparison of Sweden to USA it has nothing to do with roads, infastructure and population. Your government found a trillion dollars to do corporate bail outs :beer: - a few several billion more a year is nothing.

The difference between Sweden and the USA is one of priorities, priorities reflected in their spending, tax rates and over all social policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Incom ... ountry.svg

That's it ... (by the way that chart must be off  it is from 2005 after all - but what the heck is with US corp tax rate being higher than canada's? say it isn't so! - sheesh I thought you guys would be more business friendly  )

Actually speaking to healthcare I think the French have a pretty good system but they have a crazy high tax rate.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> The rest of the industrialized world


Industrialized world is a dead give away as a liberal phrase. It is used in many liberal talking points. It's a dead give away that your not thinking for yourself. 
It's hard to get Canadians to admit how poor their health care is. Since their government is socialist it is evidently what the people wanted. Those who would rather be self reliant don't like it. 
Back in the 1870's one of my grandfathers brothers moved to Canada. Now I have nearly as many relatives up there (Kennedy Saskatchewan area) as here in the United States. Guess what they think of the health care system. 
Perhaps the big difference here is the type of people we all are. The independent don't like public health care while the follow along crowd that is afraid to be on their own want socialized medicine. It's as much a personality thing as it is medical service.


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

The only good thing Canadas ever come up with was Bob and Doug McKenzie.

:lol:


----------



## cbas (Apr 3, 2007)

Ah yes the adhominen attack. Can't come up with anything better than "dem liberals can't think for 'dem selves"? Tsk tsk tsk.

Well lets look at a few figures:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ality_rate
Canada (5.04) has a lower infant mortality rate than the US (6.26).

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage. ... 3nov2008_e
USA spends what 40% more per capita on healthcare than Canada?
United States US$6,714 vs Canada US$3,678 per person(2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... ernal_debt
Debt per capita USA $42,343 vs Canada $35,574

But hey why change things, they seem to be working out so well  - carry on. :beer:

As for the term "industrialized world" being a liberal term. It would seem to me that it means places in the world that are industrialized. Unless of course the industrial revolution, possibly the greatest advancement of capitalism our age has even seen never really happened. Maybe it was a liberal construct as well. A bolshivek construct created to feed the minds of the worker drones!

The term "industrialized world" seems better suited as a capitalistic construct, or at least a product of capitalism and/or vice versa. For without industrialization capitalism would not have been able to flourish giving countries like Canada, the US and Japan their status as industrialized countries

And bareback - our beer is pretty good too not too mention that ham/back bacon bit that goes on an egg mc'muffin and William Shatner like come on who better to bang the green alien chicks than a Canadian? (psst we won't talk about oil :wink: )


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

cbas said:


> And bareback - our beer is pretty good too not too mention that ham/back bacon bit that goes on an egg mc'muffin and William Shatner like come on who better to bang the green alien chicks than a Canadian? (psst we won't talk about oil :wink: )


But we're still waiting for an apology for Celine Dion and Bryan Adams. :lol:

Well, I guess Shania cancels out Celine, so only need an apology for Bryan. :lol:


----------



## cbas (Apr 3, 2007)

barebackjack said:


> cbas said:
> 
> 
> > And bareback - our beer is pretty good too not too mention that ham/back bacon bit that goes on an egg mc'muffin and William Shatner like come on who better to bang the green alien chicks than a Canadian? (psst we won't talk about oil :wink: )
> ...


He's not our problem any more, I think the UK has him now.  hee hee.


----------



## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

c-bas,

how long do you guys have to wait to get care for non life threatening issues? Things like a knee scope or broken finger or something along those lines that a person could ride out but probably have some other problems later, like arthritis. Convenience is one reason our costs are so high. People go in for things they don't need and demand tests and treatment they don't need also. Providers do a lot more testing and treatments to cover themselves legally and why not, the price is right.

From what the Canadians that I know have told me the healthcare system around the large urban areas sucks. I have never been to Canada so I have no idea for myself just what I have been told.

Our healthcare system is out of control, but so is everything else. The government here cannot do anything effeciently so I still cannot see the public option benefitting us at all.

Oh I almost forgot, don't forget about Terri Clark. She offsets anything bad from Canada. And it would also be wrong to leave out Justin Morneau and Larry Walker.[/quote]


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

We all know what industrialized world means, it's just that the liberals think it makes them sound sophisticated.



> Well lets look at a few figures:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L.....ality_rate
> Canada (5.04) has a lower infant mortality rate than the US (6.26).


Actually yours is much higher. Liberals only look at the surface of the water, not what is beneath it. Look deaper and you will find we have the lowest infant mortality in the world. The difference is in how they report. For example some countries do not consider it a live birth if they do not live 24 hours after delivery. A huge number of infant moralities occur within that time period. I think it is England that reports this way. Nearly every country but the United States has some method of recording infant mortality that makes them look better than they really are.

The rest of your assumptions are also just as wrong. I'll let you discover that for yourself if your willing to actually look deeper. You will not learn much simply observing surface scum. For example start tracking your taxes and find out how much your health care system really costs you. Ours is out of control, but the real cost of yours is just as bad. If I take $100 each from little Johnny and Marry to help pay for your $300 medical bill the total of your $100 share is not the total cost of your health care. Socialist down deep know this, but they will not admit it. If they did they could not sucker others into socialism to share their expenses.

Which way is the shopping exodus from the United States to Canada, or Canada to the United States. This will help you answer the expense of material things. We do come for prescription medicine, but simply because our politicians let the pharmaceuticals rip us off. Democrats and republicans alike.

Oh, and how many US citizens go to Canada for health care?


----------



## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

If you're gonna talk about Canada's costs, dont forget how little they spend on their military compared to us. They know full well that the US would never allow an attack on the North American continent, and pretty much allow us to pick up that tab.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Good point Gun Owner. You can spend a lot of money on other things when you know you have a big brother protecting you.


----------



## cbas (Apr 3, 2007)

How about them over all mortality rates?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate

Canada 7.4/1000 USA 8.2/1000

How about life expectancy?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... expectancy

Canada 81.23 USA 78.11

Anyhow like I said before its not like the US doesn't have the money, its GDP per capita is about 7,000 higher than Canada's, its about priorities.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> How about them over all mortality rates?


Have a cup of coffee, give it a half hour to kick in, and try to understand my post about mortality rates.

I wrote something about Koi spawning on wikipedia. Now they have it up as gospel. I find wikipedia and snoops about as reliable as grocery tabloids.



> Anyhow like I said before its not like the US doesn't have the money, its GDP per capita is about 7,000 higher than Canada's, its about priorities.


It certainly is. Maybe if the rest of the free world would spend enough on their military to protect themselves, and not rely on the United States we could cut back some and have money to spend on other things. Since we have your back you should have a lot of extra money.


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

> http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=media_13nov2008_e
> USA spends what 40% more per capita on healthcare than Canada?
> United States US$6,714 vs Canada US$3,678 per person(2008)


How much is malpractice insurance for the doctors?

Also I was up on a fly in fishing trip in Ontario. A guy needed some meds (peneciline i think) for what every his problem was. He got it cheap from the hospital in the town we were flying out of. The pilots wife worked at the hospital. The guy complemented on the price of the meds.....she stated that is the only good thing about the system. She stated how long it takes to see specialists, How long it takes to get certain types of care, the BS red tape (but all med systems have that).....she said she takes her family to the US when they have anything that is remotely serious. These are words from an RN at a hospital.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Even the communists understand the impact better than our home grown liberals.

For the full story: http://blogs.reuters.com/james-pethokou ... re-reform/



> China questions costs of U.S. healthcare reform
> by: James Pethokoukis
> Guess what? It turns out the Chinese are kind of curious about how President Barack Obamaâ€™s healthcare reform plans would impact Americaâ€™s huge fiscal deficit. Government officials are using his Asian trip as an opportunity to ask the White House questions. Detailed questions





> The infant mortality rate (IMR) is the number of deaths of infants under one year old in a given year per 1,000 live births in the same year.


OK cbass. You have come to a conclusion with half the data. Now find out what these countries consider a live birth.


----------



## cbas (Apr 3, 2007)

Conclusions with half the data? Feel free to drop infant mortality out of the equation and Canadians still have a higher life expectancy, at 40% lower cost.

So believe what you want to believe. Makes no difference to me.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Canadians still have a higher life expectancy, at 40% lower cost.


If you do have a higher life expectancy it's because your kids don't spend half their day at McDonalds and the other half playing computer games.

As for the 40% lower costs I think some costs snuck past you. If it looks cheaper to you then some poor smuck is paying your way through his taxes.


----------



## cbas (Apr 3, 2007)

I guess my point is you come here pointing to some You tube videos and say "look look the sky is falling!"

The reality up here is Canadians are getting treated, we are living longer and the healthcare is delivered at 40% lower cost. Everyone is covered and no one has to worry about the prospect of losing their house if they need cancer treatments.

Is our system perfect? No, far from it. However it is working for millions of Canadians with %100 coverage.

Sure our income taxes are higher, our debt per capita is much lower, we are not dependant on the Chinese to float our economy and apparently are business taxes are lower (that kind of surprised me).

So instead of insulting someone because they have a different opinion than you why not try coming up with some data to support your arguement at hand - that is if you can actually find some rather than natter on about McDonalds and video games.

As for the "schuck" thing - my wife and I own our own seperate businesses. We pay more than our share of taxes, corporate, sales, income and payroll. Your comment is both ignorant and insulting - not to mention surprising considering that you are a "moderator".


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

I am trying to remember where I read the article. But Canadian officials are now trying to figure out how to change your health care system, since they believe it cannot be withstand financially. Anyone else remember the article? I believe it was posted here before.


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Not the one I was looking for, but another I found interesting.



> TORONTO, ONâ€"Canadian health policy is increasingly failing patients, exploiting medical providers, and is ultimately financially unsustainable in its present form, concludes a new book published by the Fraser Institute, one of Canadaâ€™s leading economic think tanks.





> â€œThe Canadian health care system is a textbook case of government failure in medical insurance and medical services,â€


----------



## Longshot (Feb 9, 2004)

Found it, it was from the Canadian press but is no longer available there and found it here.

http://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2009/ ... imal-care/



> Canadian health care system imploding, Obama health care, Canadian Medical Association, August 16, 2009, Dr. Anne Doig, patients are getting less than optimal care
> August 16, 2009 Â· 146 Comments
> The truth about Canadian health care:
> 
> â€œTop doctor says system â€˜implodingâ€™â€


----------



## Gun Owner (Sep 9, 2005)

forgive me if I'm wrong, but if you include all the miscarriages from other countries that the US counts as a live birth, would that not also drop the average length of life for that country?

I think it would.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Your comment is both ignorant and insulting


Sorry, that was not my intent. I often use the word you so that it refers to anyone reading it. Not to insult them, but to give the perspective of paying to much themselves, or getting taken care of by others. That's how socialism works.

Yes, longshot I remember the article. Many in Canada now realize their system can not continue.

Cbas our economy is in trouble because of liberals like Barney Franks, not because of capitalism.



> rather than natter on about McDonalds and video games


I brought that up because that is what our health professionals say. They blame fast food and computer games. Evidently your as ignorant about our system as you think I am about yours. Not to worry, ignorance doesn't mean stupidity, and I don't expected to know things you have not been informed about. They tell us obesity is our biggest problem down here in the states.


----------



## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source, if it were college students could use it for reference in papers, they can't, it ain't.

I personally know somewhere around 100 Canadians, they all say that the Canadian health care system is a joke. Small sample, I know, but, they can't be the only ones. And what I found interesting was that all of them said the same basic thing, they are stretched out between Brandon and Winnipeg Manitoba.

Our health care system is screwed up and needs an overhaul. However, Government run health care is not the answer.

huntin1


----------



## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

huntin1 said:


> Our health care system is screwed up and needs an overhaul. However, Government run health care is not the answer.
> 
> huntin1


+ 10,000.

Anybody that would trust their healthcare to our government, the same government that botches everything they touch, is a fool. Plain and simple.


----------



## cbas (Apr 3, 2007)

Actually I think private clinics here would be a good thing, some provinces already have private diagnostic services ie MRI etc and I believe there are some private pay for access centers in BC, Ontario and Quebec.

As for the data quoted, that from wikipedia anyways, it was all originally sourced from the CIA fact book.

Plainsman: regarding your self professed inability to use pronouns properly - when you quote someone and then follow up with "you" there is no room for ambiguity in who you are referring to.


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Ya, I failed to go back and look at what I wrote. I will stick with if your life expectancy is higher it is because of lifestyle not health care. That is essentially what I said the firs time.
Also, if you think your health care is cheaper I do think some cost got past you, and I do mean you. Did you look at all costs? Are you sure your aware of all costs? Socialist things always cost more because of government inefficiency.
As for the poor schmuck paying your way. There perhaps isn't, you just don't know your cost. Most times when I talk to people who think they are getting a free lunch someone is paying for it. If your not someone else is. Simple as that. 
I could have been more polite about getting my point across. Either you missed the cost to you, or someone else is paying for it. That's not insulting, that is reality.


----------



## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

all these champions of socialized medicine know they can come here for the critical stuff. Socialized medicine is great for the common cold sucks for serious issues. They know that but dont care becasue they can fall back on our system to take up the slack when theirs fails them.

I would support a ban on treatment of Canadians and any citizen of a country that has socialized medicine. Give them emergency care if they are visiting and have an accident stabilize them and send them home.

They claim there system is great and cost effective so make them use it and only it.

Canadians would scream bloody murder if that passed

child mortality rates cannot be compared with other countries because the standards for what aliving child "is" are different in some countries the child has to be beyond a certain age or development before being considered alive


----------



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> As for the "schuck" thing - my wife and I own our own seperate businesses. We pay more than our share of taxes, corporate, sales, income and payroll. Your comment is both ignorant and insulting - not to mention surprising considering that you are a "moderator".


You know cbas you caught me off guard here and I started apologizing for something I should not have. In a socialist system very few people brake even on their tax burden. They are either paying for someone else, or sucking at the system.

I said:


> As for the 40% lower costs I think some costs snuck past you. If it looks cheaper to you then some poor smuck is paying your way through his taxes.


You see cabas I gave you a choice. Either some expenses are sneaking past you, or your the one living off the efforts of others. If you choose the latter that's your choice. Most socialist governments like Canada's have found sly ways to sneak real costs past their citizens. Maybe we should be insulted that some arrogant socialist is trying to tell us how we should run our nation. Your system is about to implode, and your telling us how wonderful it is. Bob has the right idea. If you come down with something serious please stay home. I'll continue to hold your system up as an example of failure.

You spend comparably nothing on self defense because you know you can rely on the United States to save your behind. You also run a poor health care system, because once again were here to save your *** should something really serious endanger your life. My intention is not to insult you, this is just the way things are.


----------

