# new rifle



## dlip (May 16, 2004)

well, im gettin that itch again to buy a new rifle, looking along the lines of a 30/30, 243, or a 308, im not in any hurry, it will probably be May before i purchase it, in 30/30, i was thinking a winchester, i dont want a marlin because i like the straight grips of the winchester, but that is the only thing setting it apart from the marlin, i will probably in the future use it for cowboy action shooting, and my other 2 options are a 308 or a 243, i like the 308, because it can be used for brush, but so can the 243, but id probably go with the 308 over teh 243 because i can buy the ammo super cheap, i want the gun to be either an auto, single shot, or bolt action, my relative has an m1 garand that had been converted to 308 by some spacer that had been put in the chamber by the man who owned it before him, id probably get one from that american marksmanship program and itd be one of the cheaper ones, and the 243, id buy it in a ruger m77, what would be the better choice, id be using it for deer, and plinking


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

dlip, you asked for opinions, so this is it.

30-30: I think the Marlin is definitely the better gun, and I think there are models with the straight grip, but you will probably have to order it. While the Winchester is plenty strong for the 30-30, the Marlin is stronger. Also, IF you decide to mount a scope, the Marlin is definitely easier, already drilled and tapped and you can get mounts even at Wallyworld.

243: I have gone on record stating that the 243 is adequate for deer, and I have one and absolutely love shooting it. However, I never said it was the BEST for deer. I LOVE m77's. Can't understand why I don't have one, yet. I'm too cheap I guess.

308: This is absolutely my favorite caliber. Reasons: Cheap ammo, versatility, accuracy potential, available rifles, and I could go on. You can get 308's in single shot, scout bolt actions, tactical bolt actions (sniper), lever actions, semi-auto. Have I left anything out? Have you read this month's article in American Rifleman? Springfield Armory has a new version of the M1, the SOCOM 16. That sounds like it is right up your alley, but I doubt it will be cheap. If you haven't read it, do. It comes with a barely legal (16+ in) barrel with a compensator, ghost ring aperture sight, protected post (with tritium insert) front sight, and scout style scope mounting rail. This may be what you want. I know I want one, even though I will probably have to sell both of my other 308's to get it, and I hate to do that. :sniper:


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

ya, i did read that article! that rifle looks pretty bad, i know its pricey though because its a springfield, and i dont have any guns im willing to cough up to buy it, and im the only one in my house hold who hunts, at that matter, im the only one who shoots, im in high school, and i doubt my parents will let me buy it, you never know, but, they are the type of people who if the gun looks pretty mean, they dont think i should have it, and no, they are not 'anti', its just theyve never been around guns until i started shooting awhile back, i will purchase that gun though some day, or some sort of m1a, and ill most definitely buy the marlin if i can find one with straight grips, that is the deciding factor for me, ive never like lever actions with pistol grips, im just on a limited budget right now, it will be May beforei buy one, because that is when my birthday is, im gonna keep some money from christmas to go in on it, but ill be buying a gun, just dont know yet what it is going to be


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

hey, dont give me that, i never said i was shooting into a brush pile like you are thinking, where i hunt, the woods are very thick, and you need a heavy bullet that wont deflect off of small limbs and braches, no such thing as a brush gun? ya, thats your opinion i guess, so you are telling me it would be better to hunt with a 6mm than a 30/30 in thick woods, where all it would take to mess up your shot with a 6mm is a small limb that you cant see through your scope, it is much better to have a larger, slower moving bullet that wont be thrown off course by "brush" yes there are such things as brush guns



> Brush gun? No such thing! Ignorant to think you can shoot through brush in order to humanly harvest any animal! Stupid to actually try it!


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

just like people saying theres no such thing as knock down power, when i refer to knock down power, i mean the energy and velocity, and the brute shock it delivers on impact, sure it may not roll an animal, but, tell me this, if you were hit by a 12 gauge slug, or you were hit by a 30/06, which one do you think is going to cause more shock and pain


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

dlip, I'm wayyyyyy out of high school and I'm still on a limited budget. Don't feel bad.  By the way, please take OSOK's advice with a grain of salt. :******: My opinion is he often writes before he has thought something out and doesn't seem to care if he insults you, hurts your feelings, etc. On the subject of brush guns, the only really effective brush gun is the one that can miss all of the branches. I don't care how heavy the bullet is, it can still be deflected by a branch, and the faster it is going, the more liable it is to be deformed as well on the way. My idea of a brush gun is one you can carry comfortably and is handy in the brush. If that 243 carries like a dream and seems to point itself, sounds like a brush gun to me. Get what you like. You're the one paying for it and the one who will hunt with it. :sniper:


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

ya, i know the 243 is a great brush gun, because it is to my knowledge is the most used gun in south eastern oklahoma, probably right along side the 30/06, 30/30, and or the 308


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

The brush gun concept is interesting. I have read a number of articles on it, and the best involved a fellow who created an artificial brush barrier with ½ inch wooden dowels. He placed targets ten yards beyond the barrier. Over the years people have talked about the 45/70 and such as brush guns. The idea was these big bullets bullied their way through brush. I think short guns got a reputation as brush guns because they were short and handled well in brush, not that they penetrated well. Now to the outcome of the tests performed. The smaller diameter, but heavy bullets did the best. The best caliber was a 6.5 mm, but I don't remember the cartridge. I think it was the Italian military rifle, but my memory just isn't that good. I also will say take it with a grain of salt when anyone gets rude with you on this site. Keep in mind that life is sometimes ironic in that often the people who know the least have the strongest opinions. I enjoy this site and hope I never come across as an authority wanta be. 
Oh, I should add that none of the guns performed acceptably even when the targets were moved to five yards. What a supprise, five yards. His acceptance level was all five shots in a 10 inch paper plate.


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

i dunno, i know there is a 6.5 mm swede, that may be it, but, ya, i know that even if you have a heavy bullet, that its stillnot wise to shoot into brush unless necessary, but, they are good, because, when you are in the woods, it gives you the advantage


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I have a serious suggestion if you live in a populated area where you have to leave to shoot consider a RWS pellet rifle. They are very well made full size rifles, you can get a lot of excellent practice cheaply and quietly and they are very fun to shoot.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Yes it sure would give you an advantage especially when you consider that you don't want to pass up a shot at a large buck if all that is in the way is toothpick size twigs. I think a shot at a deer through very small twigs would be OK. Maybe I will have to try a few tests myself. No the rifle wasn't the old swede, I would remember that. If I remember it was 6.5 and something like a 160 gr bullet. I do think the 6.5 is a very good cartridge. I have often recommended the 260 Remington to people after observing the performance of my son's. A 140 gr 6.5 is a very capable round with little recoil. I will perhaps talk myself into one soon. Like I really need another gun. Well I do, but I need three or four before I get to the 6.5. I think a Remington 338 Ultra Mag is next on the list. Then again maybe I don't want detached retinas.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## dlip (May 16, 2004)

you know osok, it gets pretty dang annoying when me or anyone else asks for information on calibers, and i end up with people like you lecturing me on ethics, its ok to share your opinion on calibers, but ive hunted long enough to know good ethics, and yes, larger bullets can richochet off of smaller limbs, but they are less likely to than a smaller caliber, that is my opinion, its almost like people like you just look for some way to stir the pot



> No shot at an animal should be taken if there is a chance of not placing the bullet properly.


there is never a fail proof shot, most of the time, if you take your time, you can have a good shot placement, but there are ALWAYS things that can go wrong, i can gurantee that there have been more deer killed in brush and in the open by the 30/30 than any other caliber in the world


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

dlip said:


> you know osok, it gets pretty dang annoying when me or anyone else asks for information on calibers, and i end up with people like you lecturing me on ethics, its ok to share your opinion on calibers, but ive hunted long enough to know good ethics, and yes, larger bullets can richochet off of smaller limbs, but they are less likely to than a smaller caliber, that is my opinion, its almost like people like you just look for some way to stir the pot


Ain't that the truth! :lame:

If it were me dlip, i would go with the .308, but then I'm kind of partial to that calibur. Wide range of bullet weights for loading, factory ammo available almost anywhere you go, and cheap surplus ammo available as well. Take care.

huntin1


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

To a certain extent, heck to a great extent, I agree with huntin1. I like the 308 for all of the same reasons. I guess that's why I was looking at that SOCOM 16, that, plus the sheer handiness as a HUNTING rifle. It may not have the long range capabilities of some, but THAT looks like a brush gun to me. If OSOK doesn't want a 30-30, great. That leaves more for me to chose from. It's his loss.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Sdeprie

That is interesting about the 30-30. A few years ago a friend I hunt with wanted an inexpensive rifle for his wife that wouldn't kick much, but would drop deer. I found an old Savage 340 bolt action, with clip for $100. We loaded 125 gr Ballistic Tips at 2700fps. She loves that gun. Totally different animal when you can load pointed bullets in the clip and don't have to worry about detonation in a tubular magazine. I also have to agree with you and hunt1 I like my 308. I have a 300 win mag that I really like, but I shot it so much I was worried I would ware it out in a couple years. I purchased the 308 just for something to keep me from shooting my 300 so much. I purchased the Remington 700p and put a Leupold M1 on it. Now I am not only playing with it I shoot deer with it. Well, deer, prairie dogs, rabbits, gophers etc. I have had it about a year now and run through about 1000 rounds.

OSOK

I doubt your 06 Ackley improved can keep up to my standard 300 Winchester Mag. I'm getting about 4300 ft/lb out of mine, whats your Ackley do? I'm sure 79 gr of R22 behind a 165 Swift Scirocco will leave your Ackley wheezing in the dust.


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## OneShotOneKill (Feb 13, 2004)

Expert advise deleted by OneShotOneKill!


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

OSOK, I can understand your interest in calibers based on the 30-06. My favorites are those based on the 308, including the 243, but the 30-06 is right behind. The home armory includes so far (not finished, yet), a 243, 2 308's, a 358 win. Also included are a 30-06, a 280 rem (on the way), another 280 Rem waiting to be built, a 25-06 waiting to be built (on mauser actions). Also in the think tank is whether to rechamber an 8mm to 8mm-06, or to rebarrel to something elso entirely, like the 35 whelen. You see, we actually share many opinions. My beef has not been so much with what you say, but how you have said it. That, and backing up your opinions with questionable facts. Plainsman shoots that cannon because he needs it to "reach out there and touch someone" with sufficient remaining energy. As good as your AI is, it just won't reach his distance. Doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the AI. And he as much as said he is concerned about shooting that 300 as much as he does. 
The question here was about a new rifle and suggestions. If he has a heavier rifle, a 243 would be great. It is adequate for deer (maybe not THE best, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it), makes a great varmint rifle, pleasant to shoot. If he wants something a little heavier, it doesn't take anything away from the 243. 
Dang it, I've rambled again. That's what I get for trying to do this with too little sleep. 16 hours of work yesterday and getting ready for work again now. Let's share opinions, and not present ourselves as having all of the facts. I know I don't have them all, but after shooting for 30 years, I've picked up a few, and still ready to learn more. Truce, eh? :beer:


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