# Terrorists



## Bobm

Did you guys here the audio clips of that Korean man that the damn Alqaeda has, begging for his life?? If that doesn't make you want to kill terrorists nothing will! The Saudi's, Iran and Pakistan have allowed this poison to be spred in the Mosques and Madrasses for the last twenty years in their countries and we will have to deal with these bastards for the next 50 years, forever if we don't hunt them down and kill them all. I think we should declare war on any country that doesn't clean these vipers out of its society, kill them before they get over here and get us. Its just a matter of time before these maniacs set off a car bomb or something worse over here. IF they do we should declare war on the country they are from and make an example of them. Kill their entire population and take their land, oil ect. Let the other governments of these tinhorn countries realize their continued existence depends on them clearing up this mess. Damn I'm grouchy today I've had enough :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:


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## Bobm

The Iranians should be next on the list, they are some the the biggest supporters of terroism. We really need to build about a 1000 MOABS and use them.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... 0&ncid=716

*Note the real reason the Iranians are messing with the British is that the British have got on the bandwagon with the rest of the world denoucing the Iranians for trying to develop nukes, when the Iranians have Nukes the terroists will have nukes, then we are screwed!!!!!!!!*


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## buckseye

Hey Bob.....where were you in the 70's and 80's when the CIA was busy plotting and pitting these sheepherders against each other.

Don't forget it is cheaper to buy a nuclear bomb than make one. There are 1000's of various size nuclear bombs in existence. I was involved in writing the Nuclear Agenda for the US about 10 years ago and one of my suggestions is and was to inventory all nuclear energy. I'll show that stuff to ya sometime.

Hang in there Bob...only 4 1/2 months to election!!


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## Militant_Tiger

bush has only got a few months left and im sure kerry wont be doing any invading unless it must be done in his first term. the republicans should have thought out who to attack first from the beginning


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## Bobm

Well I come in for lunch and find out that I've got the rest of the day to think about the fact that these bastard terrorists do one thing that our politicians ( except Bush) won't, that is these terorists do what they say they are going to do. By the time most of you read this you may already know the they beheaded the Korean Kim whatever today. Thats right, they said they would behead Nick Berg and they did, they said they would behead Paul Johnson and they did and they said they would behead the Korean and today they did just that. *Now think about this they have also said they are going to hit us and try to kill thousands of us here in the United States. * Do you still doubt they are serious, do you finally have a realization of the ruthless bastards we are dealing with? We need to send as many troops as is necessary after these guys and hunt them down and kill them and anyone we find financing them or supporting them need to be killed as well. None of this namby pamby turn it over to the UN John Kerry type BS is going to work on this problem. There should be no attempt at negotiation we need to hunt them down and kill them.....all of them. :sniper: Nothing short of that will work.


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## Bobm

The Muslim world is at war with Western civilization. We have the military might to thwart them. The question is: Do we have the intelligence to recognize the attack and the will to defend ourselves from annihilation? Their intent is clear, but let's refresh our memories with a bit of history.

At the 1972 Olympic Games in Munich, several athletes were massacred. In 1979, the U.S. embassy in Tehran was taken over and 52 hostages held for more than a year. In 1983, U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut were blown up, killing 241 U.S. soldiers. In 1988, Pan Am flight 103 was bombed, killing 270 people. In 1993, there was the first bombing of the World Trade Center, and in 2001, it was reduced to rubble, killing more than 3,000 Americans. In 1998, U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed, resulting in more than 200 dead and 4,000 injured. Who are the people responsible for these and other wanton murders of innocents, including the recent barbaric beheading of two innocent men? *They were all Muslims.*

You say, "Williams, you can't make an indictment of a whole people and their religion!" I'm not, and let me clearly state: By no means are all Muslims murderers. But on the other hand, *I've never heard broad Muslim condemnation of their fellow Muslims' murderous acts committed in the name of their God. If anything, there has been jubilation and dancing in the streets in the wake of Muslim attacks on Westerners. * :******: Contrast their response to the widespread Western condemnation of the, mild by comparison, behavior of a few coalition forces in Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison.

Muslim atrocities, and the collective Muslim response to those atrocities, might be better understood knowing their belief system as spelled out by a few, among many, passages from the Quran: *"Fight those who do not believe in Allah"* (Surat At-Taubah 9:29). *"I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them"* (Quran 8:12). *"The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures"* (Quran 98:1-8). *"Fight against those who believe not in Allah, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (Islam), until they are subdued" *(Surat At-Taubah 9:29). *THOSE PASSAGES MEAN US, FOLKS* :sniper:

Phil Lucas, editor of the Panama City, Fla., News Herald, in his April 4, 2004, editorial "Up Against Fanaticism," asks, "Can anybody name three ongoing world conflicts in which Muslims are not involved?" Lucas says, "They can't get along with their neighbors on much of the planet: France, Chechnya, Bosnia, Indonesia, Spain, Morocco, India, Tunisia, Somalia, etc., etc., etc."
READ THIS PARAGRAPH CAREFULLY
My colleague Dr. Thomas Sowell observes, "Those in the Islamic world have for centuries been taught to regard themselves as far superior to the 'infidels' of the West, while everything they see with their own eyes now tells them otherwise." He adds, "Nowhere have whole peoples seen their situation reversed more visibly or more painfully than the peoples of the Islamic world." Sowell adds that few people, once at the top of civilization, accept their reversals of fortune gracefully. *Moreover, they don't blame themselves for their plight.* *For the Muslim world, it's the West who's to blame.*
History never repeats itself exactly, but we might benefit from the knowledge of factors leading to the decline of past great civilizations. Rome was one of those advanced civilizations. Rome was so caught up in "bread and circuses" and moral decline that it couldn't manage to defend itself from invading barbaric hordes who ultimately plunged Europe into the Dark Ages. The sooner we recognize the West is in a war for survival, the more likely we'll be able to escape the fate that befell the Roman Empire.

Above Article by Walter Williams a great writer in my opinion


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## Bobm

We ought to teel Al Jezeera that if they show a marine getting his head cut off we will send a missle into their headquarters!!! **** these bastards!
Read this article!!!
The Islamic terrorists are at it again, this time taking a U.S. Marine hostage. The media loves to call them "insurgents" or "militants," but this is just their term of endearment for these bloodthirsty Jihadist thugs. They are terrorists, and nothing else.

A video broadcast by Al-Jazeera shows Cpl. Wassef Ali Hassou blindfolded and the tape says he will be beheaded in three days, unless we release prisoners, which we will not do. If they do what they said they would, just like in all of the previous cases, these Muslim monsters will saw off Corporal Hassou's head. Such a peaceful religion, isn't it?

Also, let's not discount the complicity of Al-Jazeera here. Would these murderers keep taking hostages if they thought they weren't going to get any media coverage? Of course not. That's their payoff. They know we're not going to release any prisoners.

Too bad they're not treating him like we "abused" the prisoners at Abu Ghraib. After all, then he would just have panties on his head and be naked while dogs barked at him. But according to the media, that's much worse than being murdered on TV.

Isn't there a way to turn the screws on Al-Jazeera?


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## Bobm

Militants shot an American soldier held hostage in the back of the head saying the killing was because of U.S. government policy in Iraq, Al-Jazeera television said Tuesday, hours after Washington transferred sovereignty in Iraq to an interim government.

The Arab-language station reported that the slain soldier was Spc. Keith M. Maupin, but the U.S. military said it could not immediately confirm whether a man shown being shot in a murky videotape was indeed Maupin, who was taken hostage after an April 9 attack outside Baghdad.

The report did not say when Maupin, 20, of Batavia, Ohio, was killed.


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## Bobm

The United States has increased the reward on Islamic terrorist and Al-Qaeda thug Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's head to $25 million. This is the Al-Qaeda terrorist that is not listening to Democrats who say he isn't in Iraq, and the same murderer who chopped off Nick Berg's head awhile ago.

Anyway, these lunatics have now decided that for their next bargaining chip, they'll take a female soldier hostage. The Defense Department is aware of it, and is stepping up security around the 11,000 female troops in Iraq. A source says they might be planning payback for the pictures of women humiliating prisoners at Abu Ghraib. Yet another reason those losers may have cost lives.

So what will happen if they capture a woman? You know exactly what will happen. They will parade her on TV, threaten to rape her -- probably after the fact -- and they will threaten to behead her if the United States or whatever country she happens to be from doesn't release prisoners or leave Iraq. Immediately, every news organization on earth will broadcast their demands. Once that happens, Al-Qaeda's mission is accomplished. Al-Qaeda will appear as strong and invincible, while we will appear weak and vulnerable. American respect for the lives of innocents will mediate our response. To the Arab world this will appear as weakness. That weakness will encourage further action. Sure, they know their demands will not be met. That's not their goal. Their goal is the notoriety that comes from the media coverage, and the message that coverage will send to the world of their strength. They also would hope that the brutal death of a female soldier would so outrage Americans that Bush's reelection chances would diminish even further. As all of this drama unfolds, never forget who Osama bin Laden would vote for on November 2nd. Hint: He doesn't wear cowboy boots.

Al-Qaeda is playing a game, and the media is going along with it. Don't think for a second that these bastards aren't taking comfort and getting encouragement from the public statements of liberals and from Michael Moore's leftist propaganda. They know that a large portion of the American public are too weak to fight, and will want to cut and run if a female soldier is kidnapped.


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## buckseye

Bobm said



> They know that a large portion of the American public are too weak to fight, and will want to cut and run if a female soldier is kidnapped.


I don't think so Bobm....there are not many cowards here just the people that are sick of politics and the media leading people around by the noses. The day will come we are forced into taking this country back from the oil mongers, although they are the stakeholders and have been given control of the nuclear energy we will need in the future too.


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## Bobm

Poland says 'terrorists' were looking for poison gas warheads found in Iraq

WARSAW (AFP) Jul 02, 2004
"Terrorist" groups were seeking to acquire the warheads containing mustard or sarin gas which Polish troops recently discovered in Iraq, the head of Poland's military intelligence servicesaid on Friday.
*"In late May, we obtained information that... terrorists were looking to buy these warheads and were offering 5,000 dollars (4,000 euros) per unit (to potential sellers)," *General Marek Dukaczewsky told a news conference.

"Among the names of potential buyers that were circulating, we identified those of people linked to terrorist activities," he said.

"We do not have information indicating that terrorists have any (such weapons) in their possession but the fact they were seeking them allows us to suppose that they do," the general said.

Washington announced on Thursday that *Polish troops had discovered more than a dozen warheads containing mustard or sarin gas in Iraq*, a report later confirmed by Polish Defence Minister Jerzy Szmajdzinski.

In late June, Dukaczewsky said, Polish military intelligence services were offered a chance to purchase chemical weapons and proceeded to buy 17 Soviet-manufactured 122-milimetre warheads, *all of which are thought to contain sarin gas.*
*He said the warheads "could be used as chemical mines or in suicide attacks".*

"It is important to note that this ammunition was transported from some depot and buried in order to avoid discovery by United Nations inspectors," the intelligence chief said.

Dukaczewsky said that research was continuing into the banned weapons.

No weapons of mass destruction have yet been found in Iraq, seriously undermining what was the central argument for the United States and Britain for launching their invasion of the country in March 2003. [/u ( see my comment below)

Poland, one of the staunchest supporters of the US in the Iraq war, patrols a large swathe of the country south of Baghdad, heading a 6,500-strong multinational force including 2,500 Polish troops.

My comment


> No weapons of mass destruction have yet been found in Iraq, seriously undermining what was the central argument for the United States and Britain for launching their invasion of the country in March 2003. (


What ????   This is not what this very article says what is wrong with our media, are they nuts, do they have to put this stupid line in every article)


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## Bobm

*The first duty of any government is to the security of its people*. So it is only natural that when we are confronted with the harrowing images of hostages in Iraq and Saudi Arabia, governments wish to do everything possible to save their citizens. We are moved by the plight of these innocent victims; we feel the deepest sympathy for their families, loved ones and fellow citizens.

But caving in to terrorist bullying is not the answer; it only emboldens the perpetrators and intensifies the dangers for us all. Governments must be resolute against terrorism. While we appreciate the terrible dilemma confronting the Philippine government, we hope they will show courage in the face of the kidnapping of one of their citizens and reconsider their decision to withdraw the Philippine humanitarian mission from Iraq ahead of its scheduled departure date.

A decision to stand firm would have the full support of the international community. Showing such resolve is not always an easy choice, but it is the right choice. When any government does otherwise, it can mean that many others will pay a heavy price. For this reason, I welcome the resolve of South Korea's President Roh Moo Hyun and Bulgaria's President Georgi Parvanov in their brave stand against the terrorists-cum-kidnappers in Iraq. Their actions have sent a clear message to the terrorists that the international community cannot be intimidated. All nations with citizens in Iraq are grateful for their courage.

*If we bow to terrorist demands we invite them to commit further atrocities. We are in effect saying to them, "Kidnap our people; and you will get what you want." Have no doubts: Terrorists learn and profit from our weakness. They cannot be appeased.*
We should ask ourselves, if we give in to the terrorists once, what will be demanded of us in future? Are we prepared to concede every time we are attacked or threatened? Our compliance will not bring an end to these brutalities. Quite the contrary--terrorist demands will escalate and these pitiless people will exact an even more terrible toll.

In taking hostages, the terrorists want to sap our morale and instill fear and uncertainty. They seek to undermine our confidence and values, to sow division and intolerance both within and between nations. The spate of recent kidnappings in Iraq is a textbook example of their merciless divide-and-conquer strategy.

The terrorists aim to split the members of the coalition that is helping to bring Iraqis the prosperity and stability they deserve after decades of rapacious dictatorship. They want to deny the Iraqi people the opportunity to live in a society where tolerance, pluralism and openness flourish. They seek to do that through intimidation, murder and kidnapping. They dare not rely on force of argument to achieve their goals because they know they would lose.

The terrorists also know that a world united against them poses the greatest risk to their chances of success. That is why governments must stand firm against them and make clear they will not be intimidated. There is no other way to defeat them.

The Australian government has just released a white paper analyzing the international dimensions of contemporary terrorism. It reiterates Australia's unwavering commitment to stand up to the terrorist menace and points out that the terrorists' ambitions and presence are global and their operations are transnational. Those facts shape the way we must respond. All nations need to continue to work together to identify and literally outlaw those who threaten us on a global front.

We face a terrorist threat quite different from anything experienced in the past. Our enemies aren't interested in limited hostilities and extracting concessions from us. They wage a version of total war and they want to destroy us. They despise the values and aspirations we hold dear as the epitome of decadence and weakness.

Stable, open, tolerant democracies are the antithesis of the retrograde, oppressive regimes they want to foist on the Muslim world. The threat comes from a fringe group of Islamist extremists. Obscure and largely marginalized, they are contemptuous about the observance of Islam in Muslim countries and would reform them along premodern Taliban lines with fire and the sword. They are also convinced that their destiny is to contain and eventually overshadow the democratic West.

In that tumultuous clash of values, the establishment of a stable, democratic state in Iraq has become the test of everything civilization stands for. Terrorist insurgents know very well, better in fact than many in the First World, what is at stake. That is why they are hell-bent on sabotage.
A modern Iraqi state would pose an intolerable threat to their world view and its plausibility. But a failed Iraqi state would be an immense blow to the prestige of America and its coalition allies, a triumph for fanaticism in the battle of ideas.

The battle against this terror could last a generation. But just as the threat is global, so must be the strength of resolve to defeat it.


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## Bobm

Militant Muslim Cleric and Islamic terrorist Muqtada al-Sadr, leader of the Shiite militia that has been battling U.S. forces across Iraq made an appearance yesterday. He said that he would fight "until the last drop of my blood has been spilled." Don't you think it's about time we gave him his wish? :sniper: 
So why hasn't the insurgency been crushed anyway? Why isn't al-Sadr pushing up daisies? Because we have been too nice. We're not unleashing the full fury of the United States military to ensure maximum victory. We're too worried about appearances, and how this or that will look, instead of getting the bad guys and whacking as many terrorists as possible.

Do you think the Islamic terrorists are worried about civilian casualties and world opinion? :eyeroll: Not a chance.
On the contrary, they are counting on our weakness. So instead of going all-out to bring these Islamic jihadists to their knees, we're nibbling around the edges. It's time to get off the fence, take no prisoners and end this "insurgency" once and for all.

Muqtada al-Sadr....your eternal sand-nap in hell is waiting. :******:


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## Bobm

*U.S. intelligence officials say a high-profile political assassination triggered by Osama Bin Laden himself will kick off the next major Al-Qaeda terrorist attack. *Intelligence reports say the killing could be carried out at home or abroad. *The detailed plans were found on the laptop computer of a captured terrorist in Pakistan.*

Convinced yet that we are engaged in World War IV? We have 83 days to go until a presidential election and the sworn enemy of the United States, the Islamic terrorist that attacked this country three years ago is threatening again. ?*Why aren't more people upset* :eyeroll:

Either they're stupid, don't care, or it's going to take an even bigger attack for people to stop worrying about nonsense like government creating jobs or providing health care. After all, you can't access any of Kerrys promised new government services if you're pushing up daisies from an Islamic terrorist attack.

*There were literally thousands of computer disks captured along with this Al-Qaeda operative*. Surely there is more news to come. When will Kerry step forward with some detailed and concrete plans on handling this mess?


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## buckseye

I don't think this country would shed many tears for any current politician that happens to stick it's head out from under the covers and gets it removed.

Most people love the USA but despise what our government has become.

I feel sorry for our Military People who read and listen to all this kinda crap, it's gotta hurt a little.


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## Bobm

Buckseye I have a different take, if I was in the military knowing that the enemy actually is still planning to attack us would give me a sense of purpose and make me feel that the job I was doing was worthwhile. Our politicians are for the most part useless but I don't want any of them shot especially by Al queda, because they will use it as a tool of propaganda and intimidation against our politicians and other countries politicians.


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## buckseye

bobm wrote


> if I was in the military knowing that the enemy actually is still planning to attack us would give me a sense of purpose and make me feel that the job I was doing was worthwhile


bobm if I was in the military and read the opinions you and the media write I would quit reading... :lol:

I have never said or even thought the soldiers jobs as protectors of this nation are not worthwhile, so keep that straight if ya could. :sniper:

There is a time of reckoning for everyone.....


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## Bobm

> I have never said or even thought the soldiers jobs as protectors of this nation are not worthwhile, so keep that straight if ya could


Buckseye, That was a statement about how I would feel not what you think. I gues I missed your point. Frankly sometimes it is real hard to tell what you think??? And what have I written that isn't favorable to the military.


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## wingbuster

Bobm wrote " The Islamic terrorist that attacked this country three years ago is threating it again? WHY AREN'T MORE PEOPLE UPSET?"

The truth is the islamic terrorist started attacking this country in 1979. We are not fighting a country or a race, we are at war with a religion the muslims have made it clear that all infedells should be destroyed. That is to say all non muslims. To say a religion is to blame is political suicide in this country and the politicans keep getting more control everyday. Their are peacefull muslims but their were peacefull christians in Germany during Hitlers rule. But they dare not speak out for fear of reprisal, It is your are with us or against us. In the start of the war in Iraq, a marine, a muslim marine threw a granade into the barracks of his commrads or were they? After all they were marines not muslims. He saw this as a war againtst muslims, just what these people want, the Holy war, the war against muslims. Where are they? Who are they? We dont know and until we stand up and fight the right fight they will continue to destroy us. For the time they are after our allies to discredit us as protectors, they already brought Spain to their knees and if they can get the rest of the world to fear them no one will stand up to them EXCEPT THE UNITED STATES as we have always done. But this time is different, they are among us in numbers and they are patient. I have a letter wrote by a well respected attorney and politicaian to his sons in colledge preparing them for what is comming. This is not a war we can go home and say we tried, and lost. This war is home and it will destroy our country if we loose. The muslims in controll and who have for centuries brain washed their young are against our way of life, the freedom they want to stop.They will attack us again and again, and the more other countries stop fighting it the more we will have to bear. I just pray to god the people in this country see the threat before it is to late. Not one muslim country contributes to world peace, freedom, or civil rights for their own people. Just total control of the masses. I DO NOT HATE MUSLIMS OR ANY OTHER RELIGION , BUT I DISTRUST THEM COMPLETLY... And as for Bin LADEN, Pakastain offered him to clinton before the Cole attacks, but Clinton did not want him, hind sights always 20/20.


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## buckseye

thats is so true bobm you will never know what I think..it is way to complex....I have long equations in my life as I get older so my mind is always changing and growing just like yours ol pal. :lol: my mind has been on break for a while and I enjoy the simplicity of it. eace:


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## wingbuster

buckseye, tell me how you do it. I find myself researching everything and always looking for more education. I wish I was 17 again when the only thing I worried about was a place to hunt, a place to fish and the little bit of money it took to do it. Now I have children and I want their lives to be just as simple but it is not going to happen. I know most people think only about what they see but I want to protect my children in the future as well. And times have changed so much, this increasing threat against us has me wondering just what my children will face.People transport drugs and stolen goods across the border every day. How long before they get a nuclear or biological weapon into the country? I realize there will always be threats to us, but I will not blind myself to the situation we face today. The threat is real and it will not go away until we all stand together and take action. The key I believe is to stand together as a nation and as a family of familys. Protect the future today..


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## buckseye

I know what you mean I have been trying to get our government to tighten up on all the possibilities since 1994 when I wrote "A Nuclear Agenda for the US". My suggestions were evaluated and many were implemented by the DOE, one suggestion being to put UV light sensors in all border crossings. I know alot may be smuggled but is still a step in the right direction. The UV sensors are finially comeing into use, sometimes it don't matter how much you care, things still take time. Never give up on your primary intentions even tho we are constantly being sidetracked.

So true wingbuster, this war has been called a religious war by our enemy, the only way we can win a religious war is by strengthening our religious values and prove our faith in Jesus Christ by going to church and just generaly becomeing better people. The Christian religions will prevail but not witout all of our help. 8)


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## Bobm

Buckseye what does the UV sensor do?


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## buckseye

it's what is called a geiger counter...it counts the frequency of decay in uv producing materials such as uranium and plutonium. They decay at a 1 micron frequency, the wavelength is one micron which is the size of an oxygen atom. The 1 micron frequency will pass freely thru water because it wave length is able to navigate thru oxygen so easily causing a disruption of the atoms which inturn causes heat just like a micro wave oven. That what's neat about nuclear power it is 100% predictable and it's clock never stops. 8)


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## MSG Rude

buckseye,

Did you about about, I think it was Chrystal Gale's bus or someone like her, at the border crossing between Canada and the US?

The sensors went off like crazy. After getting everyone off the bus and checking it they found it to be her sister-in-law who just had therapy and there was enough residual in her body that the sensors picked it up. Wow is all I can say!


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## Bobm

Rude you must really be getting old if your sensors don't go off around Chrystal gayle. :lol: Although I haven't seen her in 20 years so if shes a big fat whale don't tell me about it. I'd like to keep a couple fantasies for my old age :lol:


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## buckseye

I'm glad to hear that SRude. Some things take a long time to actually be put in place. We drove back and forth across the border in 1993 with a hazmat container labled radioactive, we stopped at the border to take pictures of us with the border guard and the hazmat container. We were not even asked about it. We sent those pics in and other things to the NRC and of course was immediatly checked out by the FBI. We were found to be normal people with some not so normal goals.

Anyway I have been uninvolved in anything like that for about 10 years now. I shouldn't be able to be considered a threat to national security ever again I hope, thats scary. Sometimes you have to stick your neck way out to get the right results...now I am a hunter and naturalist enjoying our beautiful planet. 8)


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## Bobm

*In the end, Moqtada al-Sadr turns out to be a coward*. Big suprise kind of reminds you of Saddam uke: All of that nonsense about "fighting until my last drop of blood is spilled" went away as soon as this Islamic goon saw guns at the gates. Now al-Sadr is talking truce, talking cease fire; and the good guys are going to fall for it.

He's promising to disarm his militia, is he? He's promising to remove his militia from that holy mosque in Najaf? And we're going to believe him?

The Iraqis are calling the shots on this one, and in the final analysis it will be the Iraqis who will suffer the consequences of giving al-Sadr another chance to save his skin. *This man should have taken a bullet in the head months ago, but he keeps pulling the same stunt time after time.*

Al Sadr's game plan is simple.

1)Whip some of your Islamic buddies in to a frenzy and give them guns. 
2)Send your goons out to kill Americans and infidels 
3)Make bold statements about fighting to the last drop of blood 
4)Watch for infidels with guns to actually show up at your front door. 
5)When the infidels with guns show up start screaming for a cease fire. 
6)Bask in the increased support you have received from your Islamic goon friends. 
7)When the infidels leave gather your new Islamic buds around and whip them into a frenzy. 
8)Give them guns. 
Go to step 2. 
This Islamic terrorist is directly responsible for the deaths of Americans. *A well-placed sniper should take care of matters.* :******:


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## Bobm

This morning Russian security forces launched an assault on the thugs holding women and children hostage in a Russian school.

Once again this morning, it doesn't make any difference which news outlet you're listening to ... those Islamic radicals holding those hostages in a Russian school (and now hopefully dead) are still just "Chechnyan rebels", "hostage-takers" or "armed terrorists." *It seems that nobody in the media is willing to identify them for what they are ... Islamic terrorists.* :******: By the way ... Russian authorities are now saying that there may be as many as 800 children in that school .. or more. *These peace-loving Muslims *saw some children trying to escape the school earlier today. They *shot them in the back*. Children shot in the back, this will be here next if we don't defeat them over there. This horrrible act, I believe, is what led the Russians to finally act. *These Islamic killers must be absolutely delirious over the prospect of being able to kill that many innocents in one action.* :eyeroll: 
Not one of the Islamic terrorists should be allowed to leave those school grounds alive. Those who already have should be tracked and killed like the animals they are. 
The Chechnyans are very lucky Putin is a *****, I would kill every one of them in their whole country for this act, just to let the damn Islamists know what will happen to their countrymen for acts like this.


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## Bobm

The bloodthirsty Islamic jihadists have struck again. Oh! You didn't know they were Muslims? Well, I can't blame you, since most of the media just refers to them as "insurgents." *Along with their willing accomplices at the anti-American, pro-terrorist Al-Jazeera network, Islamic Al-Qaeda terrorists have sawed off the head of another American and shown it to the world. * I don't know why we don't tell Al Jazeera that the next time they show an American being beheaded we will put a cruise missle in their office. This time the victims were civil engineer Eugene Armstrong from Michigan and a local Atlanta man. The video of him being slaughtered was posted on an Islamic website yesterday. Abu Musab al-Zarqawi claimed responsibility for the killing and said another hostage would be next. They're still holding a Briton.

Armstrong was murdered the same way Nick Berg was. His head was sawed off while he was still alive as he gasped for air and blood poured from his neck. *He knew exactly what was happening to him*, and he knew exactly what these vicious Muslim terrorists were about to do to him. Can you imagine the horror he must've felt?

It's very sad, but as usual the media's love affair with the "insurgents" continues. Nowhere in the AP story describing the carnage do they call the killers terrorists. Even as they describe the murder, they're called "militants." Why don't they call them what they are? They're Islamic terrorists. The truth hurts, doesn't it? 
*By the way ... these Islamic bastards also shoot children in the back.*

Kerry wants to get out of Iraq. What...so it can be taken over by these thugs? :eyeroll: I think not. We need somebody that is going to find them where they are, and blow the Islamic murderers to smithereens. I hope Bush gets tougher after the election, I believe the lack of unity is hurting this effort just like it did in Nam.
AL QAEDA PLANNING ELECTION ATTACK

There's a report out today that says U.S. intelligence agencies believe that Al-Qaeda is moving ahead with plans for a major, "spectacular" attack between now and Inauguration Day. The intelligence reports also say that it is Al Qaeda's goal to use some sort of a weapon of mass destruction in the attack. Of course, the plan would be to try and influence the November 2nd elections. According to someone familiar with the intelligence, Al-Qaeda believes their credibility is on the line because there hasn't been a major terrorist attack since September 11, 2001. I wonder what they have planned this time?

Potential targets include The White House, Pentagon, U.S. Capitol, congressional buildings along with other buildings in New York. What will their bomb of choice be? Another airplane? A car bomb? A suicide bomber? A dirty or nuclear bomb? Imagine the damage one nuclear bomb set off in a major population center could do, the Iranians are working hard and are close to having one.

People seem to forget that Al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden are still out there, still planning to kill as many Americans as possible. They have said that for their next attack, they want to kill millions of Americans. Are people listening? *Do you understand that as you are sitting there at home, in your office or at school, that half way around the world, Islamic terrorists are plotting your destruction? * One thing's for sure...the left doesn't get it. Political ambitions should be put aside and we must show a unified front to the world anything else encourages the enemy just like Kerry and Fonda did in Nam.

If God forbid another terrorist attack happens, count on the Democrats (except Zell Miller) to blame it on Bush's Iraq policy.


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## racer66

I'm all for that cruise missile thing in the main office Bob. What a bunch of cowards. :******: :sniper:


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## buckseye

Hey Bobm...I'm all for an extreme version of what we are now doing. This has went far enuff, we need to call it war and play the game a little meaner too. It's about time to draw a line in the sand, anybody on the other side of the line is fair game. Put them down like rabid dogs.

I honestly would have no problem pulling the trigger on a few of those clerics over there. They must know we will kick their ***** all the way to hell if we want to, now we just need to get'er done!!!

Hey hows the weather? Are you coming to ND? So far the grouse seem to be invisible, I haven't seen many yet.


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## Bobm

You're right the Clerics are the worst offenders in many cases. We have to get a lot tougher with all these countries. Way too much political manuevering interferring with this war. We would be way better off if the country was showing a united front.


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## Guest

USA V.S. the world, is that how you'd like to see it?? That seems it's the way it's going. Better focus on the grouse hunting for a little while and let the blood pressure drop!!! :lol:


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## pointer99

#1Waterfowler said:


> USA V.S. the world, is that how you'd like to see it?? That seems it's the way it's going


nope.....that's the way it is. when our allies were in a jam the u.s. bailed em out. we ask for help and get nada.

the french have surrendered so many times they are not sure which flag to salute.

time to get a lot tougher with these thugs.

who says that? i say that.... and hellava lot of other folks in my neck of the woods.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

Pointer if you look back just a few years many more countries supported the war in Afghanistan, or the war on terror. Not many supported the war in Iraq. That big of a stand is not something to be ignored.


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## Bobm

> Not many supported the war in Iraq.


this liberal BS isn't true only three didn't, France germany and Russia and all for corrupt reasons violating UN sanctions


> That big of a stand is not something to be ignored


.

Yes it is we shouldn't ever let the opinion of another country ever influence us about our own foriegn policy.

MT you are very misinformed and don't know what you are talking about. Read


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## zack

MT

Of course, some of the countries that didn't back the US had a reason.
They didn't want to get caught with their hand in the cookie jar. They had 
a good deal going with SoDamn Insane until he got what he had coming!

zack


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## Militant_Tiger

I do not feel that the support of kuala lumpur made any difference in Iraq. If most of the civilized world tells us that something is wrong, are we to ignore them? I think us no more capable of making a proper decision than them.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> I do not feel that the support of kuala lumpur made any difference in Iraq. If most of the civilized world tells us that something is wrong, are we to ignore them? I think us no more capable of making a proper decision than them.


germany , russia and france all had a vested intrest in iraq. they were skirting the sanctions imposed by the u.n..........and of couse when the first shot was fired france would have surrendered. gets kinda old changing your flag every few years. we didn't need help from canada.... would have been kinda hard for the dog sled to pull that lone cannon through the sand.

pointer


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## pointer99

Bobm said:


> Yes it is we shouldn't ever let the opinion of another country ever influence us about our own foriegn policy.


AMEN TO THAT!!!!!


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## njsimonson

I'd have to disagree. Anti-American sentiments in Europe are pretty high right now. Europe is pro-UN directive and anti-American directive. I think MT has hit it on the head that a LOT of the European countries (or the majority of their populations) did not favor a US action in Iraq.

It's like I joked with my friend in Norway...

"It's a good thing the President isn't good at world geography. Because once he found out about all the oil around Norway, there'd be battleships off every coast."


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## Plainsman

Bobm, Pointer99, I am with you guys. The day we rely on the other nations of the world will be the beginning of the end of the American Republic experience. People who would bow to the European wishes are only free because there are people with enough guts to defend our freedom. If the UN ruled we would loose our sovereignty by vote at the first meeting they held. The other nations of the world may hate us, but they also admire us, and the arrogant a$$es are so jealous they can't see straight. They may hate us, but they sure would like to be us. France thinks of themselves as a world power, and the truth is they hate us because they are such a miniscule wart on the rear end of the world.


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## zogman

Plainsmen,
It must be our generation. We do NOT want to give up our freedoms. I agree 110% with you. Everyone forgets. FREDOM ISN'T FREE.. How many died in the Civil War to free the Blacks? Many 100,000's.


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## Niles Short

1,037 dead american soldiers dead so far, and at least 4,000+ more with parts missing. This is not including civilan workers that can't see anymore because their heads are not attached to their shoulders....Hey Bob go to the Expedia site get some one way tickets and go over there and show us how it is done. I know I will feel alot safer with you over there.


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## buckseye

It's simple if we pull out of the middle east we will end up buying oil from Russia and China, who wants that. The powers that be have been in this struggle for a long time now. It doesn't seem like there is anything anybody can do to change the long term plans of the big oil companys.

The side effects of secureing these energy sources are pretty dang nice too in my opinion, it would be nice to get it back to pre-saddam/bin laden days. At least then a person could travel over there and see the old Religious sites we have been forbidden from seeing for almost 30 years. Whether anybody likes it or not we share a common ground in the Old Testement, the many Religious values have more meaning than all the oil in the world. 8)


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## Plainsman

Nils

So what is your plan? Do we cut and run and wait for the killing to begin over here? If Bush is doing everything wrong, or if you think we shouldn't be there what is your plan? You want Bob to go over there, so if your wrong about this and they come over here *again* are you going to protect us. I think people who don't want us over there will be the first to ***** if they come here. Lets hear a good alternative. Try not to include France, Germany, or Russia. They will be busy buying oil from the next Iraq dictator, while the general populace starves. 
Every American life lost is a tragedy, but a few more thousand here at home is also a tragedy. I think people who think this war is bad look at the world through rose colored glasses. To think we can sit here safe and sound , and no one will bother us, if we don't bother them is naïve. The ironic thing about all this is the Moslems hate our way of life. The very things we stand for they hate, womens rights, civil liberties. They especially hate the liberal view of gay marriage, abortion rights, etc. What I find ironic is the very people who would pull out (liberals) and wait for them at home are the people Islam hates the most. Go figure.


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## Bobm

Niles I enlisted during Vietnam so if your implication is that I'm one of these armchair hawks who wouldn't go himself, you don't know what you are talking about. If I was a young guy and they would take me I would already be overthere but at 52 years old with some physical problems that wouldn't fly I am not able to serve this time, and I regret that because I think I could still do a good job at it despite those problems. *When did you serve? *
Don't you love all these head in the sand liberals who want to ignore the fact that there is a group of people plotting to kill all of us and destroy western society :eyeroll: .
*As for those Europeans Niles, that you and MT are so in love with those are the same people that sat on their hands while Hitler exterminated the Jews and while Milosivich went on a Ethnic CLeansing spree in Kosovo, come to think of it you and MT are in perfect company, socialist cowards that have to get the "approval" of other wimps to do the right thing.* You liberals always claim to be for human rights until you have to put you butts on the line for it then you run away from controversy like the bunch of cowards you are. Did you listen to the Iraqi Prime ministers' speech yesterday it applied to people like you and your accomplices in the media that are so willing to critisize and mis-characterise our efforts in Iraq without really knowing whats going on or its international implications. We will fight them now in Iraq with our trained military personel or they will fight us here against our civilian population. Furthermore if we as a country showed a unified front the terrorists would see the futility of this fight. As long as liberal wimps like you and your buddy Kerry send the message that we might "compromise" our soldiers will be there even longer. There is no possible compromise with Islamic fascist fanatics that truly believe they have a divine mission to kill all non-muslims. *This is the real tragety Kerry feels political advantage is more important than than the safety of this countries soldiers*. Which I guess shouldn't surprise any of us because he has a long *documented *history of contempt for our military.


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## seabass

Plainsman said:


> Nils
> 
> I think people who don't want us over there will be the first to b#tch if they come here. Lets hear a good alternative. Every American life lost is a tragedy, but a few more thousand here at home is also a tragedy. I think people who think this war is bad look at the world through rose colored glasses. To think we can sit here safe and sound , and no one will bother us, if we don't bother them is naïve. The ironic thing about all this is the Moslems hate our way of life. The very things we stand for they hate, womens rights, civil liberties. They especially hate the liberal view of gay marriage, abortion rights, etc. What I find ironic is the very people who would pull out (liberals) and wait for them at home are the people Islam hates the most. Go figure.


I still actaully feel that we would be safer without having gone over there (Iraq). It seems futile. What we are doing looks like arrogance to these people... and because of that, it still seems to me we are more apt to have another attack than before.
and Plainsman, the planes did not crash into gay bars, they crashed into a symbols of American capitalism.


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## Militant_Tiger

"You want Bob to go over there, so if your wrong about this and they come over here again are you going to protect us."

I wasn't aware that the Iraqis attacked us.

"As for those Europeans Niles, that you and MT are so in love with those "are the same people that sat on their hands while Hitler exterminated the Jews and while Milosivich went on a Ethnic CLeansing spree in Kosovo, come to think of it you and MT are in perfect company, socialist cowards that have to get the "approval" of other wimps to do the right thing."

Indeed Bob, because there was no French resistance nor a Dutch resistance,nor a Russian army, nor any other european country. The war was won by the United States alone. Your ignorance shines through the red white and blue Bob.


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## Bobm

MT said 


> Indeed Bob, because there was no French resistance nor a Dutch resistance,nor a Russian army, nor any other European country. The war was won by the United States alone. Your ignorance shines through the red white and blue Bob.


 The war was won by the US and the British. Those socalled resistance movements were an extremely small part of the totality and formed after their countries cowardly leaders rolled over and peed on themselves for Hitler, turning their heads away and hoping that Hiltler wouldn't get to them sooner or later, just like you MT would for the terrorists. 
Mt said


> I wasn't aware that the Iraqis attacked us.


Fact is you aren't aware of much, you are a political illiterate. We haven't attacked the Iraqis either, if we had this thing would of been over a long time ago. We could of killed every man woman and child in Iraq the first week. Fact is we are attacking Islamic facist terrorists and the regimes that they can operate out of. And they did attack us and will again if we don't get them first. You liberals love to try to characterise this situation up as something it isn't because the truth makes anyone arguing against it foolish.

Seabass( I hate to respond to you in the same post as MT as I don't consider you to be mindless like him) its not futile and the Iraqi people don't think that we are arrogant. They are thankful for what we have done and have said so repeatedly unfortunately our media is so left wing biased and realize that good news about the war in Iraq will help Bush so they are not reporting the good only the bad. Dig into it and you will find out the truth about it. This thing is not an easy thing but its a worthwhile one. There are two irrefutabe facts the Iraqi people are grateful and Saddam was working behind the scenes with terroists, both of which the socalled mainstream media is lying to the public about.
In his speech yesterday Prime Minister Allawi had an important point that unfortunately wasn't widely reported by our biased media. He correctly pointed out that 14 or 15 of Iraq's 18 provinces are completely safe, and that there are only three provinces that contain pockets of terrorists. *In other words, what is being reported constantly is designed to paint the picture that Iraq is an out-of-control place, and it is not.* ASK yourself if this part of the story was being told truthfully and our politicians ( Kerry) were willing to put country in front of ambition how much quicker this war would be over, Kerry is currently helping the Terrorists just like he and Jane Fonda did the North Vietnamese. And its going to increase the number of young lives lost just like it did to my friends back then...


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## buckseye

The war isn't against Iraq/Afganistan it's against terrorism and it just so happens some of the worst terrorists were in Iraq/Afganistan and by God we have got a bunch of them already. It's not a loosing battle, you talk to soldiers that have been there and they say the list of missions has been greatly reduced and they are accomplishing what they are told to do everyday, everytime. 8)

If there happens to be any soldiers reading this thank you and get'er done. :sniper:


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## buckseye

This was sent to me by a friend:

The other day, my nine year old son wanted to know why we were at war. My husband looked at our son and then looked at me. My husband and I were in the Army during the Gulf War and we would be honored to serve and defend our Country again today. I knew that my husband would give him a good explanation.

My husband thought for a few minutes and then told my son to go stand in our front living room window. He told him: "Son, stand there and tell me what you see?"

"I see trees and cars and our neighbor's houses." he replied.

"OK, now I want you to pretend that our house and our yard is the United States of America and you are President Bush."

Our son giggled and said "OK."

"Now son, I want you to look out the window and pretend that every house and yard on this block is a different country" my husband said.

"OK Dad, I'm pretending."

"Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and see that man come out of his house with his wife and he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and afraid of their father. You see all of this son.... what do you do?"

"Dad?"

"What do you do son?"

"I call the police, Dad."

"OK. Pretend that the police are the United Nations and they take your call, listen to what you know and saw but they refuse to help.

What do you do then son?"

"Dad, but the police are supposed to help!" My son starts to whine.

"They don't want to son, because they say that it is not their place
or your place to get involved and that you should stay out of it," my husband says

"But Dad...he killed her!!" my son exclaims.

"I know he did...but the police tell you to stay out of it. Now I want you to look out that window and pretend you see our neighbor who you're pretending is Saddam turn around and do the same thing to his children."

"Daddy...he kills them?"

"Yes son, he does. What do you do?"

"Well, if the police don't want to help, I will go and ask my next door neighbor to help me stop him." our son says.

"Son, our next door neighbor sees what is happening and refuses to get involved as well. He refuses to open the door and help you stop him," my husband says.

"But Dad, I NEED help!!! I can't stop him by myself!!"

"WHAT DO YOU DO SON?" Our son starts to cry.

"OK, no one wants to help you, the man across the street saw you ask for help and saw that no one would help you stop him. He stands taller and puffs out his chest. Guess what he does next son?"

"What Daddy?"

"He walks across the street to the old lady's house and breaks down her door and drags her out, steals all her stuff and sets her house on fire and then...he kills her. He turns around and sees you standing in he window and laughs at you. WHAT DO YOU DO?"

"Daddy...."

"WHAT DO YOU DO?"

Our son is crying and he looks down and he whispers, "I close the blinds, Daddy."

My husband looks at our son with tears in his eyes and asks him..."Why?"

"Because Daddy.....the police are supposed to help...people who need it...and they won't help....You always say that neighbors are supposed to HELP neighbors, but they won't help either...they won't help me stop him...I'm afraid....I can't do it by myself ..Daddy.....I can't look out my window and just watch him do all these terrible things and...and......do nothing...so....I'm just going to close the blinds....so I can't see what he's doing........and I'm going to pretend that it is not happening."

I start to cry.

My husband looks at our nine year old son standing in the window, looking pitiful and ashamed at his answers to my husband's questions and he tells him..."Son"

"Yes, Daddy."

"Open the blinds because that man.... he's at your front door..."WHAT DO YOU DO?"

My son looks at his father, anger and defiance in his eyes. He balls up his tiny fists and looks his father square in the eyes, without hesitation he says:

"I DEFEND MY FAMILY DAD!! I'M NOT GONNA LET HIM HURT MOMMY
OR MY SISTER, DAD!!! I'M GONNA FIGHT HIM, DAD, I'M GONNA
FIGHT HIM!!!!!"

I see a tear roll down my husband's cheek and he grabs my son to his chest and hugs him tight, and cries..."It's too late to fight him, he's too strong and he's already at YOUR front door son.....you should have stopped him BEFORE he killed his wife. You have to do what's right, even if you have to do it alone, before......it's too late." my husband whispers.

THAT scenario I just gave you is WHY we are at war with Iraq.

When good men stand by and let evil happen is the greatest EVIL of all.

Our President is doing what is right. We, as a free nation, must
understand that this war is a war of humanity. WE must remove evil men from power so that we can continue to live in a free world where we are not afraid to look out our window. So that my nine year old son won't grow up in a world where he feels that if he just "closes" the blinds the atrocities in the world won't affect him. "YOU MUST NEVER BE AFRAID TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT! EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO DO IT ALONE!"

BE PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN!
BE PROUD OF OUR TROOPS!!
SUPPORT THEM!!!
SUPPORT AMERICA!!
SO THAT IN THE FUTURE OUR CHILDREN WILL NEVER HAVE TO
CLOSE THEIR BLINDS..."


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## Plainsman

seabass wrote:



> I still actaully feel that we would be safer without having gone over there (Iraq). It seems futile. What we are doing looks like arrogance to these people... and because of that, it still seems to me we are more apt to have another attack than before.
> and Plainsman, the planes did not crash into gay bars, they crashed into a symbols of American capitalism.


I see the point you are trying to make about being safer, but I think you have made that mistake because you are a reasonable man, and you think other people are reasonable also. I think you have grown up in a kinder world than I. Have you not met people who wanted to do you damage no matter how kind you were to them? These people want to kill you and I no matter how well we treat them.

They (terrorists) attacked us because they thought the time was ripe. They incorrectly assessed that we had lost our will, and that America was soft. I think America is becoming softer every year myself. The feeling of safe if we had not gone over is wishful thinking. Many mideast countries are harboring terrorists, not just Afghanistan. The example we are making of Afghanistan and Iraq has already discouraged Libya, and more recently Syria. This is no small accomplishment. The terrorists have suffered grave losses, but they are not down yet. I hate to think about it but it is logical that they would attempt a last ditch effort before our election in the hopes that there are enough week willed Americans that would cave like Spain and vote for Kerry, a man with less resolve than Bush.

It is not surprising that they didn't crash into a gay bar. They are not stupid and a more strategic target than a gay bar would include about anything else. That is a very poor argument.

You (very evidently liberal) and I (very evidently conservative) see great differences in what we each believer. From the viewpoint of radical Moslems however, we are both so immoral that they can not distinguish us. Perhaps they see women's rights as radical as gay marriage, but I support women's rights, and not gay marriage. The gay marriage thing falls in line much more with liberal thinking. That sets liberals and conservatives apart, but not in the mind of radical Moslems. If they were to score American liberal and conservative views on a score of 1 to 100, 100 being servants of Satan, they would score liberals and conservatives perhaps 98 and 99 respectively.

These people hate us, want to kill us, and only one thing will change their mind, a 30 caliber bullet right through the middle of it.


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## Bobm

Buckseye , Plainsman :beer:


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## wingbuster

I hope Americans realize the truth about these eratic muslims. Until we actualy articulate the true threat, That is to say our politicians tell the American people what we are actualy up against and quit trying to be politicaly correct we will no doubt be in the same war we were in veitnam. Politicians want to run the war, govern the tactics and in their eyes make it acceptable to the enemy. Our own government wants to keep peace with the rest of the arab nation and they support the enemy. There are two questions we must face with great attention. 1) Can we win this war? and the second, What does looseing this war mean? The greatest problem with this is most are to proud to answer the first and the second, more than most do not even fathom the second question. Even muslim clerics have stated death to all infidels. That means death to all non muslims. If you think that they started their attack on the US on 9-11 you could not be farther from understanding what is taking place. As far as the US government is concerned it started in 1979. And the muslims have told their people to go to other countries, marry and raise their family as muslims. France is 25% muslim and in the next 5 years you will see the effects of this if not sooner. There are peacefull muslims with out a doubt, but there were peacefull christians in Germany during Hitlers rule and they were no help. You are either with or against us was the rule, sound familiar. They own those people and dictate there lives. Most of the muslims do not look to their faith for answers, They (most muslims) agree with what the terrorist are doing, In there minds this is a religious war. AND MAKE NO MASTAKE THEY ARE COMMITED 100 % to there goals. If we loose this war, IT DOES NOT MEAN BRINGING OUR TROOPS HOME WITH OUR HEADS HUNG DOWN. IT Means they will increase their attacks against us. They dont want us quiet, They want us DEAD. We had a marine that was muslim in kiwait that percieveved this as an attack on muslims, he threw a grenade into the barracks of his SO called commrads. If you know history, this time we are the ones beating the drums and marching onto the open fields and they are the ones hiding in the trees waiting. We can win this war, but we cannot concern our selfs with masques that our enemys think they will be safe. WE must let them know they will never be safe, anywhere,anytime and killed on site.The only thing I must say after studing them is they are not afraid of death, They are cowards and affraid of paying for thier actions. To die is easy to live with your failures is not their way. I say wing em bring them in milk em for info and then show them the light,175000 volts of light. Fact 96% of all terrorist acts aginst the US have been commited by middle eastern muslims ages 17-34. So who are we at war with?


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## seabass

Well, I hope you all are right... because we are clearly going ahead with all of this... I'm certainly not going to try to argue. I have to admit I'm over here in Europe and the consensus is that Americans are heading down a slippery slope. I am in a city where there aren't many Americans and I bet I get asked about U.S. politics three times a day, every day. ...and not _one_ person has ever agreed with President Bush. There is a popular saying here in the Netherlands that goes something like this: "Marijuana is legal here but we wonder what the Americans are smoking." (so called "soft drugs" are actually legal only in a few districts of a few big cities... and not in the majority of the country however) This general sentiment is huge over here... if not a bit over-whelming.

As long as you brought it up again Plainsman, gay marriage is actually legal here in the Netherlands, too. Has been for a few decades I guess. Does it cast a shadow over the country? Do you notice anything is really different here because of this law? No. Not at all. Its just not a big deal. There is just an underlying theme of tolerance here that is pretty remarkable. It sort of permeates the day-to-day activity of the people/ workplace/ etc. 
However, no pheasants, ducks, deer, real fishing... I'm definitely going back to NoDak!


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## Bobm

Hey Seabass the Netherlands are beautiful aren't they, how far are you from Breda? I might get over there this fall. Ask them about their over 50% tax rates and the prohibitively expensive costs of everything due to their socialist ideas. Bought any fuel yet? Try to go hunting oh guns aren't allowed for the most part. I'm not being sarcastic just pointing out some other things that the Dutch don't agree with us about. They are a beautiful, warm and friendly people though, you can't help but like them. Maybe we can check out one of those "coffee shops" if I get over there. Mt is driving me to drugs :lol: :lol: 
Check out those beautiful tall girls yet? 
What City are you in?
There must be pheasants because I ordered some at a restaraunt and they were shot on some local manor. Only the rich hunt there. You should sniff around maybe you could wangle a spot on one of those hunts. When I was in France near MT. Blanc I was in a fancy restaraunt (white table cloths and all) and in walks a hunter leans his drilling in the corner and sits at a table with his german Shorthair at his feet, that was pretty cool. Get a good bicycle, ther is an incredible network of bike trails all over Europe. Be careful.


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## seabass

No, I realize all of this. Gas is 3x higher here... even to buy a driver's license costs ~$2500 or so... taxes are high, but I really haven't heard a lot of complaining. Grocery prices are normal. But the concept of hunting here is lost on people... gun ownership seems absurd for the most part.

Breda, NL? oh, I'd say about a 40 minute train ride... but then again, nothing is too far away here.

There _are_ pheasants here... but I've yet to see one.

I do have a bike... everyone has a bike. I haven't bought a drop of gas since I left the U.S. Nice feeling.


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## Bobm

As for the taxes they don't complain because they don't know better, and the business men I know over there do complain but have given up any hope of it changing. The difference in the price of fuel is all taxes. I guess it boils down to whether you think some beaurocrat can spend your mony better than you.... Its a beautiful place though. All of Europe is, take advantage of your time over there and travel as much as you can I wish I had when I was young. France and Germany have cool gunshops lots of combination guns. You could go to Spain and get a great deal on a sxs shotgun but you will have to figure out the import laws to send it back. I'm going to buy one next time I'm over there. Have fun!


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## Bobm

I thought this little ditty I found was interesting....
OIL-FOR-FOOD-FOR-TERRORISM

The investigation into the United Nations' Iraq oil-for-food scam has taken an interesting turn. Investigators into the oil-for-food rip-off, where Saddam Hussein bribed U.N. officials to look the other way while he used the money to build more palaces and line his pockets, are looking into whether the money was used to fund terrorism. *That's right...the possibility exists that money managed by the UN may have been used by Al-Qaeda. * Surprised? You shouldn't be.

According to Juan Zarate, the assistant treasury secretary in the Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence, Saddam wanted to buy weapons to use against the United States. That was illegal as part of the 1991 agreement that ended the Gulf War, but the oil-for-food scam gave Saddam the cash he needed to get around the ban.

Fox News' special investigation has found, for instance, a front company in the United Arab Emirates that operated under the program, selling all sorts of stuff to Iraq. Turns out that company was secretly controlled by the government of Iraq itself, which tried to buy military hardware with it. A lot of money changed hands, and a lot of that money is still missing. Where did it go?

*We know that Osama Bin Laden doesn't personally have the cash to fund Al Qaeda's $30 million annual budget. Where is he getting it? It is a fact that Saddam had contact with Al Qaeda....did they do some financial deals?*
If it turns out that the U.N. funded terrorism, that makes them a terrorist organization. Very interesting.


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## seabass

Bobm, stating the majority of the country is ignorant is a pretty bold statement, don't you think? Of course I have knee-jerk democrat responses to what you write but these ideals have been argued too many times before... but I am quite curious if the 3x difference in gas price is ALL due to taxes. I'm going to ask around on that.


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## Bobm

Oil is a commodity with a world price of X dollars per barrel so the cost is the same to everyone excluding transportation costs. Here in the US Georgia normally has the lowest cost for gas because our taxes are the lowest on fuel. Check it out, you will find out I'm correct.
As for the majority of the country being politically ignorant I have a little test for that purpose if you want to try it, you'll have to get back here first because it has to be done face to face not via e-mail. Just ask 10 of your friends or co-workers who their senators are and who their congressmen are and I bet no more than one or two will know, if any. I've tried this many times. If by chance a couple do know who they are, then ask them what their senators position is on some major issue for a real life "deer in the headlights stare" :lol: . Then contemplate that the decisions your elected officials make have a larger effect on your life than almost any other factor and you will start to understand my position.


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## Bobm

Hey Seabass did you have a chance to check out the oil pricing?
Heres something else to look at with your new address... :lol: 
There is a woman named Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who is a Dutch Member of Parliament. She has been moved to a safe house because of death threats. And what did she do to require such security measures? She dared to criticize the Islamic religion.

She is a former Muslim...and she made a movie about it. In her movie, she criticized Islam's treatment of women. As a result, her private address has been published on an Islamic extremist's website, and she has received threats on her life. All because she dared to speak out.

A public figure criticizes Islam...as a result, they threaten to kill her. Such a tolerant religion, isn't it? By the way, did you know nearly all of the terrorists in the last 20 years have been Muslims?
http://www.expatica.com/source/site_art ... g+my+views


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## seabass

I've asked one person and according to him the high prices are mainly due to taxes. He did mention that they have no stockpile capacity either so evidently prices aren't moderated. Also, the demand here is low relative to the states but if the price is indeed fixed then that wouldn't matter.

Bob, how can you saÿ "they" threatened to kill her. _They_ meaning the entire Islamic community? Obviously not. It is the extremest in all religions that are dangerous. I've got plenty of muslim friends who are tolerant. Trust me, if ol' Bush all of a sudden denounced Christianity, there would be plenty of death threats coming from so-called "Christians.


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## Bobm

The "They" is the Muslim Islamic facists terrorists and I cleary stated 
" extremeist" web site didn't I. Play fair my friend :lol: . I just thought you might find it interesting because it was in your current neck of the woods. 
I think comparing Christians to Muslims in the terrorist arena is a bit of a stretch. There are no doubt some Christian nutcases that are "would be" terrorists *but there is one huge difference*. That difference is that the vast majority of Christians are very vocal in their criticizm of the Christian Jihadists which makes it very tough for them to get anything accomplished. The Muslim world is just the opposite, they either say nothing about these murderers, or they actaully support them both financially and vocally. The fact that they actaully agree with the terroists and their tactics makes me have little confidence in their sincerity. *When I see a large and vocal denunciation of terrorism by both the general muslim population and their clerics my opinion will change, so far you will have to admit that hasn't happened.* There have been some small comments but nothing substantial, the fact is, even Muslims are afraid of Muslims, because they know better than us how they really think.
I heard on the redio today the world price per barrel for oil is 75% higher right now than this time last year, Yikes! we are seeing $1.80 for gas around here it was a $1.60 last week.


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## seabass

okay, granted. But then you continued to say "Such a tolerant religion isn't?" No, I wouldn't say it was exactly clear.

Bob, that is just not true. Clearly you don't have any Islamic friends, do you. Do you? I do. And they are ashamed about the bad name that these people are doing for the religion. The last thing they want is for people to assume that all Muslims feel the same way as the extremists.

The muslims I know don't even feel that these extremists are a part of the same religion. No more than I feel members of the Ku Klux Klan (isn't this a group grounded in their own "Christian" principles) represent Christians.

Do you really think that if the Muslim community got a peace parade going that this would keep Osama from crashing another plane into something? I doubt it.


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## Bobm

One of my very close friends is a Iranian Muslim and very religious and he says what you say becasues he is a good man although he does not like the Israelis at all.



> Do you really think that if the Muslim community got a peace parade going that this would keep Osama from crashing another plane into something? I doubt it.


Yes I do, it sure wouldn't hurt the situation. This type of Muslim public opinion if expressed loudly would, I feel, help a lot. It would also take the credibility away from the likes of Osama and make him look like the turd he is.
Without this type of change in Muslim opinion this will never change...they have to get past their hatred of the Jews and live in a modern society within the rules normally abided by....not shooting school children in the back as the flee towards their mothers. I have'nt seen any big outcry about this either, and let me point out once again there are appox 135 "hot spots" currently in the world where people are killing each other and Muslims are involved in about 130 of them. The Klan is universally mocked and despised by Christians not so the terrorist by the Muslims.


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## Militant_Tiger

""Now I want you to stand there and look out the window and see that man come out of his house with his wife and he has her by the hair and is hitting her. You see her bleeding and crying. He hits her in the face, he throws her on the ground, then he starts to kick her to death. Their children run out and are afraid to stop him, they are crying, they are watching this but do nothing because they are kids and afraid of their father. You see all of this son.... what do you do?" "

This is wonderfully ridiculous. Because their culture is different they must beat their wives. Even if it was true, and their religon advocated beating their wives it is hardly a reason to go to war. If it was we would have been at war with trailer parks for years.


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## Bobm

Mt, it is an analogy not a literal event, look up the definition of , analogy. :eyeroll:


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## Bobm

Israel's deputy defense minister says it is likely that Al-Qaeda is responsible for the bombings in Taba, Egypt. They also aren't ruling out Palestinian terrorists. Three resorts that are popular destinations for Israeli tourists were bombed. At least 24 people have been killed, but 30 are missing and the death toll is expected to rise.

One of the explosions was apparently caused by a truck bomb driven into the lobby of the Taba Hilton hotel. A second blast probably was caused by a suicide bomber around the pool area. About two hours after that attack, two truck bombs went off in nearby camping areas, killing at least two people and wounding ten others.

The vicious Islamic barbarians that loaded those trucks and killed all of those innocent people are probably dead. But the terror network that sent them is alive and well, and is no doubt planning another such attack in the United States. *Al-Qaeda has said its stated mission is to kill at least 4 million people in the US.* They very well could try to strike right before the election. What would the response of the American people be? To retreat and elect Kerry, or to continue to support the president?

After all, *it is George W. Bush who is the first U.S. president in history to actually hunt down and kill these Islamic terrorists before they can attack here. No one else had done that before.* Right now Al-Qaeda is in Iraq....aren't they enough of a weapon of mass destruction?

We are engaged in World War IV, the struggle against the Islamic jihadists...and only one man has demonstrated that he will use the full might of the United States military to win that war. George W. Bush will hunt down and eliminate the threat before they have time to attack.

*John Kerry will not.*


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## Mr. Creosote

Bobm and others have contributed many informative posts regarding this subject.
For an extraordinarily researched and scholarly dissection/expose of the Koran, http:/www.prophetofdoom.net/?toc.html
This will give one the influence and mindset of the Islamicist.
It's an extensive study yet the author's insightful wit relieves the tedium.
One can readily see the attempt, (and a very poor one at that), to parallel the Bible in style and rhythm. It appears to have been penned by one with a third grade education at best.
One wonders just how many Moslems have read it in it's entirety as it consists of one contradiction after another. It must be particularly discouraging for Moslem women as Mohhamed maintains that the population of Hell will consist mostly of women were Satan will be spending eternity roasting them on a spit, (and of course with all the Christians and Jews).
"Satanic Verses" indeed.


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## buckseye

> It must be particularly discouraging for Moslem women as Mohhamed maintains that the population of Hell will consist mostly of women were Satan will be spending eternity roasting them on a spit, (and of course with all the Christians and Jews).


I hope this is why we do so much to help maintain an Israel, when it comes to fighting Islam the Jews and the Christian are united in the brotherhood that comes from fighting side by side in wars. I think that might be good for everyone.


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## Mr. Creosote

Bobm, while I agree with 99.99% of what you say there is one point on which we differ. The U.S. and Britain did not win WW2 for the allies. Russia did and they would have won it had we not participated. Eighty percant of German WW2 casualties were inflicted by Russians. North Africa, Italy, and France were essentially sideshows.
The ally effort which started on D-day in June of '44 was wrapped up in May of '45. With light years more logistics, it took the combined might of the U. S. and Britain nearly a year to retake the same ground that took the Germans 6 weeks to take from the French and British.
There are many indications that Hitler beat Stalin to the punch by 2 weeks as Stalin had over 20,000 tanks and 2.5 million ground troops all facing west when Hitler attacked Russia. At this we shouldn't be surprised as Stalin had repeatedly stated that his ultimate goal was to subjugate all of Europe. It appears that Stalin was simply waiting to consolidate his victories in the east against Japan before he attacked eastern Europe in his drive for the Atlantic.


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## seabass

> For an extraordinarily researched and scholarly dissection/expose of the Koran, http:/www.prophetofdoom.net/?toc.html
> This will give one the influence and mindset of the Islamicist.





> when it comes to fighting Islam the Jews and the Christian are united in the brotherhood that comes from fighting side by side in wars. I think that might be good for everyone.


Sometimes I am truly amazed at what is written here.

I wonder if one could learn more by actually talking to a Muslim than reading such "scholarly" books like "prophet of doom." Please. In Fargo many of the Medical Doctors are Muslim... along with professors and research Ph.D.s in all three local colleges... graduate students... law students. I'd love to see some of you argue "prophet of doom" style with them. Trying to group these Muslims with the fanatics in Afghanistan is like trying to group the KKK with Christians.

Do a google search on contradictions in the Bible.... if you really feel like nit-picking. Here:
http://www.dtl.org/bible/e-mails/troublesome.htm
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/ ... Combat.htm

Maybe also search sunni vs shiite. This explains a lot.

This is all so troubling because this is going to cause a backlash of racism in this country. It is starting already. I must be more sensitive to this because I work with so many Muslims.


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## Bobm

> Trying to group these Muslims with the fanatics in Afghanistan is like trying to group the KKK with Christians.
> Maybe also search sunni vs shiite. This explains a lot.
> This is all so troubling because this is going to cause a backlash of racism in this country. It is starting already. I must be more sensitive to this because I work with so many Muslims


.
Seabass, all true although my Islamic friends point out that in Iran Sunnis and Shiite live peacefully together.

I still want you to ask them where is the outcry against terrorists across the Muslim World. It doesn't exist except in small quiet ways in a very few places. 
Islam will never be respected until it the outcry, genuine outcry, loud outcry actually happens. 
The fact is most of them are giving tacit approval, which is evil and wouldn't happen in any other modern religion or society. At this point in history Islam is full of evil. And I'm no bible thumper, but I'm not blind to the facts either I have some that are friends as well but my opinion of them has fallen greatly, they know how to hate which surprised me.
You ever notice how many educated Muslims live in non Muslim societies they don't want to live under these crazy Mullahs but they don't help us by criticizing them and creating a consensus of opinion against the evil do they????No, they just sit quietly by while we do the hard work trying to free their countrymen.


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## Bobm

Mr. Creosote your wrong and I'm correct (as usual.) :wink: 
We did win the War for the allies and you made my point in your post. If we hadn't been there Stalin would of ended up with all of Europe instead of the former eastern block. We gave them freedom Russia would of gave them totalitarianism and its slavery.
And without Russias involvement we would of threatened to use the A bomb on Germany and used it if necessary and that would of been that.
We should of run the russians out when we were the only ones that had it unfortunately the damn Jews decided to give the technowledgy to the russians and the resultant arms race cost so much money we could of paved the streets of Europe in gold.
And no I don't hate Jews, but I don't trust their politics either.


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## seabass

> The fact is most of them are giving tacit approval,


I give up.


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## Bobm

Why give up?? how about consider the obvious, Seabass. I don't know what religion you are and it doesn't matter (unless you are Muslim) no matter what it is I'll assume Christian of some form. If Christain terrorists like the KKK are acting on their crazy ideas you would be vocally criticizing them wouldn't you?? I sure would be and I'd be demanding they stop, period! The Muslims are not, now I understand full well why they don't in Muslim countries because they would be attacked but the ones in the US and Europe have been silent for the most part and thats fact.
Maybe you should give up if you can't except fact.


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## buckseye

> This is all so troubling because this is going to cause a backlash of racism in this country. It is starting already. I must be more sensitive to this because I work with so many Muslims.


So who is causing the racism? Me staying here and not be-heading anyone or the people in the middle east? I think we will bring them into the 21st century whether they like it or not.


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## seabass

> If Christain terrorists like the KKK are acting on their crazy ideas you would be vocally criticizing them wouldn't you?? I sure would be and I'd be demanding they stop, period!


So very noble Bob. The fact is Osama bin Laden couldn't care two hoots about the Muslims in the U.S. A Muslim peace parade is going to save the world from Terrorism, is it? Get real.

I'm fortunate enough to speak with Muslims on a daily basis so I hear their concerns, criticisms and their embarassement. Embarassed becauase they know that bad name osama is giving their religion. They realize the uninformed of this country will group Muslims of Sunni tradition with what is happening in the Middle East. And no, I'm not going to tell them they need to organize and go global with their condemnation or their concerns about Osama bin Laden.

They are citizens of this country and they feel no reason to "prove" themselves any more than being the example Muslims and law abiding citizens they are every day.


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## Bobm

You're wrong Osama would be infuenced by that type of opinion and if the outcry was loud enough in the US and Europe it certainly could help influence the rest of the Muslim world to join in the criticism. Being quietly embarrassed is not accomplishing anything, thats certainly not going to influence him is it. You can make all the cracks about my being noble you want,but the fact is still there is no vocal outpouring of Anti terrorist opinion among Muslims. You're the one making apologies for them and not being real about the situation. The silence is deafening when it come to the socalled "good Muslims". Good people don't sit idly by while someone hijacks their religion. Their religious leaders for the most part are silent as well, why is that you suppose....could it be they approve of this but realize the danger of admitting that fact. I didn't think so at first but thats the conclusion I'm beginning to draw. You're defending a religion that allows killing of women for not wearing a face covering in many parts of the world, the more I read and hear about the Muslim world an its tenets the more I realize I was wrong about them and understand why its no longer the dominant religion or culture of the world as it once was. Its fall makes sense.


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## seabass

> You're defending a religion that allows killing of women for not wearing a face covering in many parts of the world


Actually, I'm defending the healthy Muslim tradition in the U.S., Europe, Australia, and everywhere else Sunni Muslims live. Your quote above is grossly out of context and exemplifies my whole point; people are passing judgement on something they know nothing about. Scary.

No longer a dominant tradition? In Amsterdam alone it just took over as the largest religion in the city... this year. Same with many other major European cities.

I'm so amazed that you think Osama bin Laden is going to re-think his value system because of a supposed American Muslim on Osama ratings poll. Not a chance. You are making Osama out as a rational person.

I can't think of what Sunni religious leaders you think are silently approving of this. There is no pope John paul for the Sunnis.


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## buckseye

> I can't think of what Sunni religious leaders you think are silently approving of this. There is no pope John paul for the Sunnis.


Well maybe they should elect a leader then. You know dang good and well they have religious leaders, it's just that they are so quiet and seem more in favor of killing anybody and everybody than not.


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## Mr. Creosote

seabass, it would appear that you didn't read the Prophet Of Doom site. It was the Koran examined verse by verse. Ever hear the old saying about judging a book by the cover. FYI, you can't. First read, then you'll be qualified to comment.
It would also appear that you haven't bothered to read the sites you posted as well as they are poor examples of the point your trying to make.


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## Bobm

> You know dang good and well they have religious leaders, it's just that they are so quiet and seem more in favor of killing anybody and everybody than not.


Well said Buckseye, he does and they do and they are quiet. They do approve or they would be openly and loudly critical they are afraid of Osama they agree with him maybe not totally with his methods but they agree with the ideas.


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## Bobm

MADE UP YOUR MIND YET? Here a good read from Boortz that sums up what we will be faceing with these peaceful Muslims who can't bring themselve to criticize there brothers.....READ IT PLEASE

I wonder how many Americans were paying attention last week when new revelations were made about Islamic terrorist plans for America. Did you hear about those computer discs that were discovered with floor plans for some of America's schools? Now what, pray tell, would a cold-blooded Islamic murderer want with architectural plans for an American school?

Ever heard of Beslan? That's the town in Russia where Islamic terrorists most-probably associated with al Qaeda murdered over 200 Russian school children. They obtained plans for the school, entered the school, secured the escape routes, rigged the school with explosives, and held hundreds of children and their parents hostage for days. *The, when the children tried to escape after explosives were detonated, the brave Islamic warriors started shooting little school children in the back*. Now we learn that other Islamic terrorists have been collecting plans for American government schools. 

Do you want to talk about terror? What type of terror do you think would sweep America if suicidal Islamic murderers invaded just one American school and killed 200 school children as they did in Beslan? The murders of the American school children would be preceded by a few days of a hostage standoff. The area around the school would be a sea of satellite trucks as television brought the hostage crisis to virtually every American living room. Petrified parents across the country would keep their children at home. Homeland security forces would negotiate while planning a raid to free the children. The Islamic terrorists would play the negotiating game while soaking up the worldwide publicity from the intense 24/7 television coverage. Then, as deadlines approached, the Islamic murderers would fulfill their suicidal designs. They would hit America in its softest spot ... it's children. Hundreds of American school children would die. *Cameras from Arab television would bring to America scenes of militant Islamists celebrating and dancing in the streets of Egypt, Syria, Iran and the so-called Palestinian territories*. uke:

How long do you think it would take for Americans to begin sending their children back to government schools? Billions of dollars would be appropriated by the congress to create the ESA, the Education Security Agency. Our schools would become armed fortresses. The school day would be lengthened to allow time for the intense security screenings that would be required of every teacher, administrator, student, cafeteria worker and janitor. Life in America would undergo a change that would make long airport security lines almost pleasant by comparison.

*This is the nature of the enemy we face.* They shoot school children in the back. They had plans for American schools. Correction: They HAVE plans for American schools. Weapons of mass destruction? You don't think that was mass destruction you saw in Beslan last month? How can you draw comfort from the fact that Saddam Hussein, with his proven ties to al Qaeda, had temporarily halted his chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs until he could manipulate the United Nations into removing sanctions? How can this make you feel one bit safer after witnessing the sight of hundreds of small black body bags guarded by the sobbing mothers and fathers of Beslan?

*Three weeks from tomorrow you have a chance to send these Islamic murderers a message.* You can tell them that Americans are resolute in their determination to find those who would kill us ... and who would kill our children .. and destroy them before they get the opportunity to carry out their deadly plans. *Three weeks from tomorrow you can show them that there will be no global test. * There will be no hasty withdrawal. *There will be no appeasement*. Our determination to protect our citizens and our children will not be dependent on the participation of France or Germany, or on the approval of a United Nations infested with corruption and the poison of anti-Americanism. You can send the message that the wishes of a majority of Europeans for a weakened America will not be realized.

Three weeks from tomorrow ... *when you head to the polls ... think about those building plans for American schools on terrorist laptops*. If, with those thoughts in mind, you can still bring yourself to vote for appeasement, for a weakened America, and for a pullback from the front on the war on terror --- if you can still bring yourself to vote for John Kerry, then you are a completely different type of American than I.


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