# What am I doing wrong?



## omegax

So, I FINALLY got out and shot the Remington Genesis I got such a good deal on last spring. I'm contemplating waiting and filling my doe tag with it, but we'll see...

Here's the deal: This is the first time I've ever fired any muzzleloader at all, not just this one, and about half of my shots required me to fire another primer to actually go off. One time it was that I didn't have the bullet seated all the way (lesson learned), but the other times I have no clue. I was using 100 grains of Blackhorn 209, and Remington Kleenbore primers. The times it didn't go off, I waited quite a while before flipping open my breech block to seat another primer. How long did I need to wait, and was it something I was going, or did my brand new bottle of powder somehow get moisture?

I felt like such a doofus... I should have gotten the bugs out when nobody was around.


----------



## Sabotloader

*omegax*



> This is the first time I've ever fired any muzzleloader at all, not just this one, and about half of my shots required me to fire another primer to actually go off. One time it was that I didn't have the bullet seated all the way (lesson learned), but the other times I have no clue. I was using 100 grains of Blackhorn 209, and Remington Kleenbore primers.


A couple of notes, Bh is considered to be a smokeless - progressive buring powder. It requires a lot of heat and flash to get it to ignite, and after that it requires compression to continue to burn.

From these two facts....
1. It is possible that the Rem Kleenbore is not hot enough... most people suggest the Federal 209A or the CCI 209M.
2. If the sabot is to loose compression wil be lost and the powder will not burn. When you seat the load it needs to be seated tightly on the powder.
3. Another suggestion shoot a couple of caps prior to loading and shooting a load. Shooting the caps will clear the breech plug.



> The times it didn't go off, I waited quire a while before flipping open my breech block to seat another primer. How long did I need to wait, and was it something I was going, or did my brand new bottle of powder somehow get moisture?


The big thing when you get a mis-fire - keep the muzzle down range for a few moments... If you do not experiance a hang fire then with the muzzle down range drop the breech - pull the spent 209 - load the next 209 - close the breech and attempt the second shot. Personally , i would wait 30/45 seconds - expecting a hang fire at any time...

I doubt that moisture of the powder from the bottle had anything to do with it.

Just some thoughts...


----------



## omegax

That makes me feel a little better, I guess... It's not like the guy I was talking to at Scheel's knew that either.

I bought both the Blackhorn and the Kleanbores because I was under the impression that they were both about the cleanest way to get the job done. If I pick up different primers, am I going to have to worry about cleaning more? Also, will the Kleanbores work better with T7 pellets? I bought the Blackhorn 209 because I had heard people raving about it, but I don't see any harm in buying some pellets to make my own comparison, in addition to buying some different primers to use with the Blackhorn. Any preferences between the Federal 209A or CCI 209M?


----------



## Sabotloader

*omegax*



> I bought both the Blackhorn and the Kleanbores because I was under the impression that they were both about the cleanest way to get the job done. If I pick up different primers, am I going to have to worry about cleaning more?


I am not sure that might notice to much difference at all. And again I am not sure the switch in primers will fix your problem, but that would be my first try....



> Also, will the Kleanbores work better with T7 pellets?


Should be no problem for the Kleenbores to start pellets....



> I bought the Blackhorn 209 because I had heard people raving about it, but I don't see any harm in buying some pellets to make my own comparison, in addition to buying some different primers to use with the Blackhorn. Any preferences between the Federal 209A or CCI 209M?


BH is a great powder, but it does have a learning curve. Also if you using BH a loose powder why would you not consider loose T7-2f. I consider it much more reliable than pellets. There is a down side to T7 also... fouling - T7 can build up a ring on the inside of your barrel 'crud ring" which might cause you the need to run a moist patch after each shot. I shoot T7 almost exclusively and have gotten use to the idea of patching after each while at the range... hunting I can usually get 4/5 shots before the need of patching occurs.


----------



## alleyyooper

I agree stop useing the Kleanbore primers they are only a slight help if you are useing T7 powder to stop the crud ring. I also wonder why you would try T7 pellets when you are already measureing loose BH209. Loose T7 is cheaper to shot by a long shot over BH 209 and a bity over pellets.
Bet if you switch to either the federal 209a'S or the CCIm primers your problems go away.

 Al


----------



## omegax

I was thinking about the pellets just because I am so new, I wanted to see for myself if the convenience was worth the extra cleaning. However, when I think about the number of people who think loose powder is the way to go, I'm either going to give the Kleanbores away (once I figure out if the Federal or CCI primers fix my problem) or try loose T7. It's like the old saying: 50 Million Elvis fans _can't_ be wrong.


----------



## Sabotloader

*omegax*

If you make the move to T7 the Kleenbores will work just fine. I use an old Remington 209-4 - a primer designed for 410 shotgun shells...


----------



## alleyyooper

Help!!!! some on explain how pellets are more convenet?

 Al


----------



## darkgael

Pellets - premeasured, can't spill them. Just drop'em down and seat the projectile (at least that's the theory)
I know that it's harder to find - almost impossible in some places - and if you are not going to shoot a lot then buying multiple pounds by mail order doesn't make sense - BUT real black powder ignites more easily than any of the substitutes. I use it exclusively now (have used Pyrodex, T7 extensively). Cleaning - no more of a chore than cleaning up after any muzzleloading session. 
Pete


----------



## maximini14

I agree that you probably have blockage of the flash hole. If this was a new gun, there may have been packing grease plugging the flash hole. A thorough cleaning of barrel and flash hole should have been done befor initial firing of gun.

I doubt the rem primer was the problem, they are plenty hot enough. Also, Black Horn recommends the use of standard 209 primers. We're you using The Rem 209 for muzzleloaders?

Firing primers prior to loading will help remove blockage of flash hole, but I always use a flash hole cleaning tool ( fine stainless steel piece of wire) to poke thru the flash-hole to insure it is clear.

Finally, black horn recommends the use of standard petroleum based solvents to clean a firearm when using BH209. Did you use water at any time as this would cause gelling when in contact with BH209 residue.

good luck


----------



## striped1

snap a few primers before loadiing to completely dry barrel after cleaning.

Give triple 7 pellets a try. so much easier to produce repeatible results.


----------



## spike buck

omegax said:


> That makes me feel a little better, I guess... It's not like the guy I was talking to at Scheel's knew that either.
> 
> I bought both the Blackhorn and the Kleanbores because I was under the impression that they were both about the cleanest way to get the job done. If I pick up different primers, am I going to have to worry about cleaning more? Also, will the Kleanbores work better with T7 pellets? I bought the Blackhorn 209 because I had heard people raving about it, but I don't see any harm in buying some pellets to make my own comparison, in addition to buying some different primers to use with the Blackhorn. Any preferences between the Federal 209A or CCI 209M?


I understand the Federals are a slightly bit hotter than the CCI 209Ms. Although not much. -----------I have been told the special "muzzleloading primers" are for 410 shotgun shells and are used as not to form the crud ring with 777 etc. Too weak for the Blackhorn 209.

spike buck


----------



## huntin1

I guess I'm way behind times. I use either Goex black powder or Pyrodex Select in my inline and replica Hawken. I have no trouble getting the powder to ignite with standard #11 percussion caps. I would think that Pyrodex would work great with primers.

I'll qualify this by saying that I have never used a ML that took a modern primer and I have never used Blackhorn.

And both Pyrodex and Black are dirty and require cleaning, but, that's half the fun ain't it. 

Oh, and in most cases, the Scheels experts, ain't. oke:

huntin1


----------

