# Sticky  223 vs 22-250



## Brad.T

This topic is getting brought up a lot so here is where you can post you opinion and it will stay up so that it dosen't get posted a bunch.

My opinion
I like the 22-250 if your not shooting prairie dogs or a lot of ammo (ammo is cheap for the 223). It's flatter shooting and in my opinon a little better on fur.


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## Horsager

I'm a 223 guy, especially if it's your 1st varmint rifle. It allows for more practice, and everyone could use more of that. I do own both, rarely use the 22-250 for coyotes, probably because the rifle I have it in is too heavy for my taste when calling/walking.


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## Bloodyblinddoors

I love my 250!


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## LeviM

I really love my ruger .223, I am very accurate with it and does very little pelt damage. On the other hand my partner shot 22-250 and he really loves his gun. I believe its personal prefrence and lots of practice.


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## Bloodyblinddoors

LeviM said:


> I believe its personal prefrence and lots of practice.


Bingo! Too many guy's are asking repetetive questions about caliber, What calls to use, how long to sit, what sort of calling sequence, wind in my face or at my back, What do you look for when scouting..Blah blah blah. Do you ever hear of the new guy asking how to hold a 1.5" group at 200yds? How many of the new guy's do you think are completely over looking the importance of trigger time?


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## Remington 7400

I prefer the .22-250 for hunting, because of the extra range and power.

IMO the .223 is a better target rifle, because ammo is cheaper, and barrel life is longer.

I own both, neither are for sale.

:sniper:


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## kiddmen57

.223

First off, factory ammo is cheap, and good enough for most hunters. Second, if you hand load, it is really cheap, and can push out accurately to 500 yards (although the fpe that far out is greatly reduced). Also we should focus on callin them yotes in closer, where a longer flatter trajectory isnt needed. i rarely shoot past 150 yards, maybe 200 on a bad day.


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## cya_coyote

i prefer the 223... i get more trigger time with the price of shells. also, i didn't like the trigger on my 22-250 even after it was adjusted. it just didn't seem as comfortable to me. my 223 is a little thinner in the neck (grip) area, and it just gives me a little bit better feel... my grandad loves the feel of it, so he now has it.

so, 223 is my choice. nothing against the 250, and if i had one more comfortable, i would probably be shooting it still.

cya

ps, i agree, the newer hunter sould probably use more trigger time, and more hints on how to shoot more accurately. i sure wish i had taken more time when i was younger... would have been a lot better than i am now... but then again, i have some distance trophies from rifle shooting, so not a bad shot, i guess

:sniper:


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## jason_n

anyone shot the 204 rueger? i am planning on buying one. just curious if it take factory ammo like a 223 and can goup well :stirpot: im gonna try learn how to skin and try turn a little pofit my 7mm-08 is a little much i want a cal that is effective but leaves a little hole :beer:


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## ruger223killer

Though my first gun besides a 22 was a 22-250 i liked it but the 223 can almost go the distance and its alot cheaper and you can get much bigger bullets in 223 so with that said id go with the 223


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## kevin.k

ild prefer a 22-250 for hunting coyotes over a 223... it just seems more of a solid gun to me :-?

223's are fun to shoot though and alot cheaper ammo.. and they are lighter


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## NCGMAN

I SHOOT A SAVAGE 10 IN .223 AND EVERY OTHER GUN I HAVE!!
I SHOOT OPEN SIGHTS AND CAN SHOOT 200-YARDS CONSISTANTLY.
I LOAD MY OWN, SO IT DOSEN'T HURT MY CHECK BOOK TO BAD.
I ALSO HAVE A ROSSI .223 WITH SCOPE. AND A COUPLE OF 22'S. BUT I SHOOT EVERYDAY!!!! I GUESS I'M LUCKY;;; I LIVE IN THE COUNTRY AND CAN SHOOT ON MY PROPERTY;; NOT 2-3 HUNDRED YARDS BUT 50 YARDS IS THE RANGE I HAVE SET UP. BUT I SHOOT ANYWAY. YES TRIGGER TIME IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!!!

SO PRACTICE A LOT, IF IT IS JUST A 22 LR.


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## 1shot1yote

I say shoot whatever is the most comfortable. Even though the 250 shoots a little flatter if a guy is more comfortable with the .223 he will make better shots. Like NCGMAN said nothing beats practice. It's sure nice to know that when you squeeze the trigger whatever is in your crosshairs is DRT.

Justin


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## aylor70

.223


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## newenglanddrisc

I am a little new to this site and after reading about the minimal calibers for coyotes and then the 223 verse the 22-250, I guess my only question is how many beers do I need to drink before logging on this website

I have only had 5 or 6 ( watching the superbowl) drinks so maybe I should return to the bar and then come back in order to reflect on those profound questions
as for cold beer and warm women, I think MOST would agree and don't need to be reminded ( unless we are serial killers)


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## boondocks

22-250!!!!!!!


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## Kevin Derynck

22-250!!....There is a reason why every caliber for yotes is always comparing their ballistics etc. to the 250...because it is the standard by which all the rest are judged.


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## GOOSEWHISPERER

Ok so I think I have made up my mind on what I am buying. I am getting a 22-250 because my buddy is big into reloading what bullet wieght do you guys prefer and why? again just for coyote's


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## SDHandgunner

Yep and the debate goes on and on and on.

Here's my take on the subject. Both the .223 & .22-250 shoot the same bullets, ie both use .224" bullets. Given the same bullet is used in both Cartridges, generally speaking in factory ammo or handloads the .22-250 with achieve roughly 400 FPS more velocity than does a .223.

400 FPS is a lot, right? To put it into perspective that 400 FPS gains you roughly 100 yards. By this I mean if we are shooting the same bullet in both cartridges (same weight, manufacturer and type of Bullet) the distance at which the impact velocity slows to (let's just say 2000 FPS) will be 100 yards farther for the .22-250 than it will for the .223.

100 yards may or may not be a big deal to some, after all isn't part of this game to call the Coyote TO YOU.

In terms of Trajectory. Again with the same bullet in each cartridge (same weight, manufacturer and type of Bullet) let's zero each cartridge so the Midrange Tajectory (the point at which the bullet is the highest above line of sight) is 1.5". Given the same midrange then we need to look at the point in the trajectory at which both cartridges are 1.5" below line of sight which will give us our Maximum Point Blank Range. At any distance out to our maximum point blank range our bullet should strike + or - 1.5" (ie be within a 3" circle out to our maximum point blank range.

Given the same bullet in both cartridges, but the .22-250 going 400 FPS faster at the muzzle out Maximum Point Blank Range for the .22-250 is 50 yards father than it is for the .223.

Now in a perfect world we all are using Rangefinders and have the time to use them so we know the exact distance to Mr. Coyote out on yonder hill. As such you can either dial in your target turrets on your Rifle Scope to the proper distance and hold dead on Mr. Coyote's chest. Well it doesn't always work out that way. A lot of times we have to make shots in relative haste and there is no time for Rangefinders, Dialing in Scopes etc, but we basically have to point and shoot.

I guess what I am trying to say is that there is a place for both. If you like taking longer shots and at times shots that you do not know the exact distance then the flatter trajectory and more reach of the .22-250 is for you. On the other hand if you call Coyotes in close and personal either will work. In regards to which one is the most pelt fiendly, with the proper bullets either can be.

Larry


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## thepain1

22 250 get her done :beer: :sniper:


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## rifle6

.223 for me  
i load mine and have a 1/2 group off a bench @ 100 yrds. i love it.
i don't have a 22-250 but my coyote partner does and he loves it, we fight it out allot. bottom line if you like it, it's shoots well what else do you need?

i just resently aquired a .25 WSSM it is really growing on me.! it is fast, and hard hitting, maybe a little big for yotes and such but when putten em down counts it stands alone!!!


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## pfast

I like the .223

Speaking of the .223 has anyone used the scopes for the mini 14 that still leave your open sights useable? if so are they worth buying.


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## Doggonnit

It's the .223 for me. I've got a single shot with a 4X32 scope and it works great. My buddy has a .22-250 and it is an awsome gun, but the ammo is a little cheaper for the .223, and i've taken a coyote at 250 yards before. :beer:


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## dynarider68

Well I have owned and shot both. For dog hunting I like the 22-250. Its flatter shooting, and has more energy, not to mention you can juice the heck out of the rounds if you handload. To each their own but for me I would trade my tikka 22-250 for any .223.


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## dynarider68

In my last post I stated I would trade my tikka 22-250. That how ever is wrong. What I ment to say is that I wouldnt trade my tikka 22-250 for anything.


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## aarongnm

I just bought the Remington 700VSF in 22-250. Prarie dogs dont stand a chance but damn its rough on pelts. When handloading I go with the lowest charge I can with the 40 grain nosler ballistic tip which is easier on pelts. But if im going to only push 3,600 fps I should just go with the 223.


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## CrashinKona

I like my 22-250 with a bi pod on it. i can lay down and call them yotes in and shoot them before they see me. :sniper: :beer:


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## SoCal Kid

I've never shot a 22-250 but my savage .223 is the most accurate coyote stopper i own


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## CrashinKona

Well after all this talk i went and picked up a rem xr-100 rangemaster. what a nice rifle. I still prefer my 22-250 over it. but i like the stock on the 223 better..  time for a upgrade for the 22-250. :sniper: :sniper:


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## bigracks75

22-250 RUGER MODEL ONE MAN THOSE THINGS ARE SMOKIN I CURENTLY OWN 3 AND I CAN LOAD MY MODEL ONE JUST AS FAST AS ANYONE WITH A BOLT ACTION 55 GRAIN BALISTICS HARD ON SOD RATS AND BIG EXIT HOLES WHO DOESN'T LIKE THINGS BLOWING UP


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## iwantabuggy

ruger223killer said:


> Though my first gun besides a 22 was a 22-250 i liked it but the 223 can almost go the distance and its alot cheaper and you can get much bigger bullets in 223 so with that said id go with the 223


What do you mean you can get bigger bullets in 223? I can put any bullets you put in the 223 in my 250 also.


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## SDHandgunner

I think what he was referring to is that with a lot of .223's now days that have 1 in 9" Rifling Twists you can shoot heavier bullets in the .223 than you can in a typical slow twist .22-250. So in this case I think his meaning of bigger meant heavier but I could be wrong.

Larry


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## iwantabuggy

SDHandgunner said:


> I think what he was referring to is that with a lot of .223's now days that have 1 in 9" Rifling Twists you can shoot heavier bullets in the .223 than you can in a typical slow twist .22-250. So in this case I think his meaning of bigger meant heavier but I could be wrong.
> 
> Larry


If that is what was meant, it doesn't make any sense to me. If you want to shoot heavier bullets, move up a caliber to the 243. IMO 22 cal was meant for light fast bullets. From my understanding of it, light/fast bullets shot through a 1 in 9 twist will often come apart due to excessive centrifigal force. So then a 223 with a 1 in 9 twist would be best suited for heavy bullets, but heavy bullets lose energy and velocity so fast in a 22 cal that they don't make sense. Use a 22 cal for light fast bullets and a 243 for a little bit heavier bullet. If you want the ulimate flat shooting varmint gun, my calculations indicate the 243 is the flatest of all the common varmint cartridges. If anyone would like to take a look at that data, e-mail me.  I'd be happy to send it to anyone interested.


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## People

I use a 1:8 twist in my .223 and shoot only 50gr Speer TNT. I have never had any problems shooting these. I also get groups that are less than a dime at 200. Granted that is center to center not cover up with a dime. You need a 1:6.5" twist to stabilize the 90gr. Many of these guys that shoot this tube in their space gun also shoot 50gr and 52gr bullets for 100yd practice. I shot with one guy who grabbed the wrong ammo and had to shoot 52gr match at the 200yd and 300yd ranges. He had brought just enough 77gr to shoot the 600. Normally he brings about 300rds of 77gr ammo(200yd & 300yd) and 100 of the 90's for 600yds. He also uses the 90's for 1,000yds.

When you tube is still good you can get away with this. As your throat starts to go south you will experience bullets that will blow up somewhere down range when using smaller bullets. I was reading about a match rifle shooter that had to fire about 15 shots to get 10 on paper. No mater what grain bullet you are shooting unless it is very tough skinned you can experience blowups at extended ranges when your throat gets bad enough.

My personal experience is when you over spin a bullet you will get better killing power from the bullet (knowledge limited to 22cal varmint bullets). It seems like they come apart much better. I have fired a few TNT out of a rem 700 do not know the twist and they did not give the splatter effect they do when fired out of my gun.

Where you get real advantage by going to a 6mm over a 22cal is you get a better B.C. than the 22cal version. Also you get to use more powder, more expensive projectiles. Is it worth it? That is up to you. I do want one just for the splatter effect.


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## mike2766

The 22/250 is my favorite caliber of all I've owned. I have 3 in Rem.700's and load about 1000-1500 rounds a year for them. I don't shoot p. dogs or target shoot. I contract shoot and do some calling. The attainable velocities of the 22/250 over the 223 are significant for serious shooting. The increased velocity also improves terminal performance which is critical in anchoring a target.

If I was an amateur that didn't reload I would absolutely opt for the 223. I did put together a 223 in a Rem 700 varmint for a friend a few years ago that was an absolute tack driver, and I'm not easily impressed. Certainly accuracy is not the issue.


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## 25-06rem.

I shoot the hell out of my .223 rem, and can hold a nikle size, 5 shoot gruop at 300 yrds with 40grn nosler balistic tips, so i agree that trigger time is everything. I shoot from 10yrds to 400yrds with that rifle, because i have had yote knock the rifle out of my hands before. so that being said i think you should shoot want you want and shoot it alot.

yes and if you want to try a real flat shooting hard hitting varmint/deer rifle try the 25-06, I own two of them, and i shoot the hell out of them to.
Me and my girlfriend shoot gophers with them. Bit spendy but lot of fun
and good trigger time. I shoot 117grns at deer, and i shoot 117 grns at yotes, at long range 400 plus. I personally prefer the 25-06 over all calibers for acuricy (oh i almost forgot, i strongly feel that u must put high quality optics on you varmit rifle, such as swarovski, ect). :sniper:


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## hagfan72

25-06rem. said:


> I shoot the hell out of my .223 rem, and can hold a nikle size, 5 shoot gruop at 300 yrds with 40grn nosler balistic tips,


Uh huh... :eyeroll: I assume that you make a living on the professional shooting circut? :stirpot: oke:


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## 25-06rem.

Uh huh... :eyeroll: I assume that you make a living on the professional shooting circut? :stirpot: oke:[/quote]

nope, I just shoot for fun in relitives pasture for gophers summer, yotes winter, I got a custum built .223 built off of a rem, 700 action.
shoot 1000 - 3000 rounds a year. ALL FOR FUN. im not saying im the best shoot out there, anybody can be that good if u just practice&practice&practice, so when that wonce in a life time buck/bull walks out in front of you, you will have a better understanding of your rifle at all different ranges, and windages, so that being said im not out to prove anything, just that u to can shoot good, hell maybe better than that  but all i do is work to shoot/ like us all  (you can call me a lyer i dont care i was just stating a fact, that trigger time is every thing) just keep it in the X spot


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## Longrifle2506

I would never shoot less powerful than a 22-250. And even with the 22-250, you can lose a yote if the shot placement is not good. My bullet of choice is a Federal Premium factory ammo loaded with the 55 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet. I believe heavily in a tough bonded bullet for yotes. The darn dogs have nervous systems like a cat, and they are hard to kill. OK guys, I chose 22-250 because you didn't mention any other rounds. My number one weapon for coyotes is a Sako Finnlight rifle, chambered in the Coyote-Killing 25-06. The 25-06 will never let you down. Also, although I've never owned one; I believe that the .243 Win. is equally good as the 25-06. But I am particular about bullet weights. In order to reach out and touch beyond 300 yards with the flattest trajectory possible, the 85 grain ballistic tip is best coyote medicine for the 25-06, and I think a 75 grain bullet would be supreme for the 243 Win. I was glad to share my opinions with you guys.


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## hagfan72

Hey longrifle, when you shoot these 'yotes, are you saving the fur? I ask because I am going to try to sell some pelts this winter, and i am looking for the most fur-friendly load that i can find. I will be using my .22-250 as well, and so far, nobody has come up with the best bullet to use.


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## coyote_buster

Go to winchester, federal, hornady, ect.. Visit thier website and you can select caliber and use and it will list your options on bullets. Then compare pricing. That might help limit your possabilities.


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## Longrifle2506

Hey I'm sorry, but I never really thought about "fur-friendly." Man, I have shot three coyotes with a .223 and only one of them fell dead with one shot. OK, since you are going with the 22-250 I will tell you my choice for least pelt damage. I am not an expert. But I just called my Dad, and we both agree that a good soft point would be the best. Hollow Points are too explosive, Full Metal Jackets will most likely exit, causing two holes, ballistic tips are too explosive; but soft points expand somewhat, making a good wound channel, and slowing down enough to not exit out the other side of the coyote. The bullet that I use is the 55 grain trophy bonded bear claw, which is a soft point. I don't know if they still manufacture that specific cartridge though. Check out Winchester Supreme, because I think you could probably get one or two different soft points through them. One good one by Winchester is the Power Point Plus. Well, I hope this helps.


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## hagfan72

Thanks, you gave me a lot to think about. I was wondering what the V-Max and other ballistic tipped bullets would do. I know both from personal experience and what I have read on here that FMJ's are not the answer, that is, unless I feel like tracking a coyote for God knows how long. The simple answer might be to get good at sewing, then it doesn't matter what bullet i use. hehehe....NO.


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## in.yotehunter

im new here but i have tried to use a lot of different calibers to kill coyotes. i went from a 22wsm to a sks to a russian m44 and finaly stopped so far at a 22-250. i love it so far it has no really felt recoil and is flat shooting.

a friend of mine has a 223 and compared to mine and his dads we can run circles around him. he has yet to shoot a coyote with it. most shots around here are at 300 plus.

i support 22-250s all the way


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## dusktalk

:wink: Thanks a lot fellas. I've been trying to decide which rifle to buy and it looks like a lot of you prefer the 22-250. I believe I will order mine tomorrow...

I don't hunt because I love to kill.
I kill because I love to hunt!


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## dfisher

I use to have a Browning 1885 single shot that had been refitted with a Douglas XX bbl. in 22-250. I shot groundhogs with it in Ohio and it was deadly and very accurate with Fed. Prem. 55 gr. HP's. I mean accurate enough tot shoot just damn near hole for hole at 100 yards. Prob. would have if I could of done my part :lol: 
Happy gun buying  
Dan


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## Gohizzle

I Just bought a new Rem & 700 in 22-250 cal I could use some helpfull shooting tips like how often should I clean the bore to keep that 1/4inch group at 300yrds!! and Where can i find some coyotes and who wants to joint me?


25-06rem. said:


> Uh huh... :eyeroll: I assume that you make a living on the professional shooting circut? :stirpot: oke:


 nope, I just shoot for fun in relitives pasture for gophers summer, yotes winter, I got a custum built .223 built off of a rem, 700 action.
shoot 1000 - 3000 rounds a year. ALL FOR FUN. im not saying im the best shoot out there, anybody can be that good if u just practice&practice&practice, so when that wonce in a life time buck/bull walks out in front of you, you will have a better understanding of your rifle at all different ranges, and windages, so that being said im not out to prove anything, just that u to can shoot good, hell maybe better than that  but all i do is work to shoot/ like us all  (you can call me a lyer i dont care i was just stating a fact, that trigger time is every thing) just keep it in the X spot[/quote]


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## mtcoyhnt

If I had to pick 22-250 for coyotes but I would rather go with 220 swift in .22 cal. the 25-06 is the number on rifle for all around calling and deer hunting for me. I have found that the 100gr shoots the flattest and kills what it hits.

I always pack the 25 in deer season even if I plan on just callin coyotes. You never know when papa is going to appear and Gramps always said to be ready.


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## johngfoster

22-250 for me. I had one, model 700 VS, but couldn't get it to shoot until I treated it to David Tubbs Final Finnish system. Then it would shoot 3/8 inch @ 100yd. Problem was, I never got to draw blood with it as I didn't have a decent place to hunt coyote. Ended up selling it--needed the money. Now I wish I hadn't done that. Now I'm stuck with a AR 15 with a 16" barrel, (which shoots about 2" @100yd) which should work, but I'd much rather have the 22-250 again. Good excuse for another "project" :lol:


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## 308

I like the 223 because my average shot is 100yards and at that distants there is no need for the 22-250. But if I had the chance i would buy one. 8)


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## shortbarrelsnuffy

i prefer the good ol .223. my savage model 10 with custom boyd stock shoots good as any person who gets behind it and that is with a cheaper line of optics.
(not crap but not swarovski like some one mentioned before)

as for lite little bullets flyin apart i shoot 50, 52, 55's out of it with no problems my rifle has a 1:9 twist

the yote situation i prefer my .243 ruger m77 mk 11 plain jane synthetic stock and stainless barrel and a bushnell trohpy 3x9 scope. its simple yet stands up to the abuse of the pickup on the farm and still shoots as good as the day i got it(my first deer rifle).

now i am not sure how you guys sell your coyotes but here were i am i sell carcass and all. it is not top dollar but it is well worth it for less headaches of skinning. to my point, fur friendly bullets, i shoot a 58 grain hornady v-max i hand load it at about 3600 fps (people are gonna say why not just shoot the smaller 22 cal centerfires with same size bullet) heres why the 58grn in 6mm is shorter and fatter than the 55 grn in the 22 cal(i shoot and have both) it has a bit bigger entry hole but seems to fragment better inside the body cavity which leaves me with less problems on the exit side which = $ plus i still have a bit more of that energy for that down range shot (only if needed i like them in close) and the flat trajectory is a must it doesnt matter if it is 50 yrds or 300 i use the same hold dead on = dead yote

but this is all just IMO


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## sasquatch2000

Does Barnes make anything in their line for these sort of purposes? I'd think the penetration/expansion they advertise would be just right for coyotes.


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## CoyoteBlitz

How fast does the 22-250 barrel wear out compared to the .223?


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## dfisher

I use to shoot ground hogs in Ohio with a 22-250 and had real good luck.
I was a single shot Browning 1885 with a Douglas barrel and a Balvar 6 x 24 scope. Very nice gun and very accurate. I shot Fed. Premium 55 grain BTHP's in it. I'm sure it would have worked very well on coyotes too.

I am in the market for another gun and I am hearing very good things about the .223. With the wide array of loads available, I think that it may be my choice.

Good luck,
Dan


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## barebackjack

Would some of you devout .223 guys out there please explain to me the rationale behind choosing that caliber?

Heres the way I see it. A .22-250 gives you so many more advantages over a .223.
Greater range, more power, more wind bucking potential, and for reloaders, the relative same price for ammo.

So you .223 guys, why so in love with this caliber? Are most of you out there not reloaders, and therefore saving a bundle shooting surplus ammunitions? Whats the reason?

Ive always felt the .223 and .204 is a bit small for serious coyote work, granted, if your on a budget, and thats what you have, and arent a "serious" coyote hunter, by all means use it. I shoot a .22-250 and feel that is on the small side sometimes. Theres a reason the US military is finally starting to work on some larger calibers (6mm, still small in my mind for man targets, but getting there), their realizing the .223 just doesnt pack the umph to put a target down fast which is important to keeping your lost dog percentage low, and even more important when some Haji is shooting back at you. In fact, there are reports of insurgents in Iraq taking 3-4 hits W/O body armor and without skipping a beat. Now granted, these are FMJ ball rounds, but still, humans arent nearly as tough as a coyote.

Im sure ill get the same old shot placement lecture and how you shouldnt be shooting if you dont have a good shot and blah blah. But sh#t happens and sometimes you get a bad hit so why wouldnt a person go a little bigger to gain the advantage and hedge his bets so to speak? You cant use the fur damage excuse, ive seen just as many yotes blown to hell from a .223 as I have a .22-250, .243, and .270's. Especially when some of the .223 dogs are shot multiple times.

Ive heard alot of comments like "he was 200 yards away but i wasnt going to shoot",....200 yards with little to no wind is a gimme shot if youve shot the rifle more than five times. But not if your afraid your not packing enough gun to kill the target. And lets face it, with the popularity of the sport now, getting on uneducated dogs is getting tougher and tougher, so shots are going to be getting longer and longer. Especially getting into late december and january.

The only rationale explanation in my mind to shoot a .223 is with non-reloaders and ammo prices. That and just maaayyyyybe perhaps the plethera of models available in .223 (especially all you who like the tactical style rifles, AR's and such).

Im not trying to ruffle any feathers, but nobody has really said anything concrete as to why they choose a .223. Just alot of "i love it".

And dont even get me started on the diminuitive little .204 as a serious coyote gun.


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## johngfoster

Well, let's see: first, as I stated previously, my preference is also 22-250. But I shoot .223, because that is what I have right now--an AR-15 style rifle. And it works. And yes, I agree that I would feel much more confident at longer ranges with a 22-250 than my current .223. But some of that is just my inexperience. As far as cost goes, I don't think you can win that one, even if you are shooting reloads. It is cheaper to shoot .223. The case uses 1/2 the powder, so you get almost twice the number of shells for the same amount. Now I realize the majority of the expence comes from the bullet, which is the same in either shell. Primers are somewhat cheaper for the .223 as well, but granted, not by much. They are however much easier to find, especially if you use Federal primers. That all said, I'm planning to "upgrade" to a 22-250 again in the new year.


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## Fallguy

Here is why I bought a 223 this summer:

1. I already have a 243. I was looking for a more fur friendly gun.
2. I wanted something smaller than what I already had. I went with the 223 instead of the 22-250 for the sake that I went down one more caliber.
3. I have a young son that eventually would want to hunt.
4. I wanted a low recoil, cheap shooting caliber that he could learn on.
5. I wanted a long barrel life.
6. I call them in so shots are close.

For my wants it turned out to be the best choice.


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## hogcaller

The 22-250 is the superior round. There isn't that much recoil over the 223. My six year old shoots deer with my 22-250! More range and BY FAR better ballistics than the 223....there is no choice here, 22-250 all the way! :sniper:


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## .223-beni

250 is a dream crusher on yote's


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## usmarine0352

I'm not to familiar with some of these smaller calibers.

But I just read a very interesting article on the best bullets for each game in "Field and Stream".
*
For varmints, long range it said:*

1.) .220 Swift. (He said the only problem with it was that there wasn't a lot of factory made stuff, you'd have to reload for it.)

2.) .22-250 (He said, the best, if you want to shoot out-of-the box ammo, and still a great bullet.)

3.) .223

:sniper: [/u]


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## dfisher

The one thing about the .223 that appeals to me, is the wide availability of ammo. Say you go on a trip and run low on handloads and don't have your press or equipment along. You can probably find .223 easier, and in a comparable load, than you can 22-250.

Both are great guns though.

Happy Holidays,
Dan


----------



## usmarine0352

Here is the ONLY Solution:

*Buy one of EACH.*

:beer:


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## dfisher

usmarine0352 said:


> Here is the ONLY Solution:
> 
> *Buy one of EACH.*
> 
> :beer:


A wonderful solution my friend :beer: 
Dan


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## Yote Buster

Gohizzle said:


> I Just bought a new Rem & 700 in 22-250 cal I could use some helpfull shooting tips like how often should I clean the bore to keep that 1/4inch group at 300yrds!! and Where can i find some coyotes and who wants to joint me?
> 
> first off your not going to keep a 1/4" group at 300yds especially with a stock rifle. sorry aint gonna happen. tough at 100 yds even.
> for the barrel. it depends on how often you shoot.if your shooting alot and constantly, probably every 150 rnds. if you shoot it and are going to store it a while id clean it b-4 you put it away. it all depends man some people dont ever clean but once a year.
> for finding coyotes there all over man you just gotta get out and scout and find em. talk to farmers around your area ask and see if theve seen any or heard em howlin at night. it takes time and a little effort. if you put in your time it will pay off when you get your first but it is well worth it. took me three years b-4 i called my 1st in. talk about a rush man. good luck, keep to it. happy huntin


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## duckhunter11

what about the 22mag i love mine, it shots a lil hole and alot of knock down power for yotes or any other varmit

:sniper:


----------



## johngfoster

duckhunter11 said:


> what about the 22mag i love mine, it shots a lil hole and alot of knock down power for yotes or any other varmit
> 
> :sniper:


This thread is supposed to be about the differences between the .223 and 22-250. If you want to debate the 22mag, then look over here:http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=40733&highlight=mag or here:http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=45208&highlight=mag or here:http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46114&highlight=mag or here:http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46471&highlight=mag

Lots of info around about the round. Not my first choice for coyote.

John


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## mwrhusker

I own both calibers but my personal preference is the cz527 .223 I have always carried the .223 because I won that caliber at a banquet and practicing bullet management I stayed with it. I can reload very cheap now due to years of surplus purchasing of bullets and powder.

At the end of the day both calibers are extremely accurate and flat shooting and to choose one would be futile in the sense that it all comes down to personal preference.

However, if we did want to be opinionated I would have to steer toward the .204 ruger. Just bought that in the cz527 because i love the double set hair trigger. This rifle is super fast, accurate, and it uses much much less powder making the barrel life longer. The down side is that the ammunition is harder to find if you live in a small community.


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## hogcaller

Less powder doesn't make the barrel last longer. The speed of the bullet and the bullet's compostion make the barrel last longer......along with the quality of the barrel. The 204 barrels last about as long as the 220 swift. The bullets have just too much velocity to really get a lifetime out of a barrel.


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## hagfan72

hogcaller said:


> The bullets have just too much velocity to really get a lifetime out of a barrel.


And this is based on...what?

Show me someone who has burned a barrel out, and I will eat my hat. I think too many people post on here rumors and opinions that they have read somewhere else.

So if ANYONE has ever shot the barrel out of a .204 yet, PLEASE, post here, and also tell us what you do for a living that would allow that sort of time to shoot that many rounds. :wink:


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## coyote_buster

If you buy a used gun would be about the easiest way to do that and it still seems alittle wild. Maybe an army gun? Are the sks that you buy used for like 150 actually from the war or just a remake?


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## mrmcgee

I am new to coyote hunting. A guy I work with shoots coyotes with a 17 rifle and he said it doesn't damage the pelt. He said it goes in and doesn't come out, it turns their insides to jelly. I am going to be hunting coyotes to help the landowner where I hunt, he has cattle, and I turkey hunt there so less coyotes works for me. I don't have that much to spend on a new rifle but I don't want to use my 22 or my 30-06. The 223 sounds good because I could also use it for deer but I can get a 17 for less. Has anybody shoot with a 17? What do you think?


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## hogcaller

mrmcgee said:


> I am new to coyote hunting. A guy I work with shoots coyotes with a 17 rifle and he said it doesn't damage the pelt. He said it goes in and doesn't come out, it turns their insides to jelly. I am going to be hunting coyotes to help the landowner where I hunt, he has cattle, and I turkey hunt there so less coyotes works for me. I don't have that much to spend on a new rifle but I don't want to use my 22 or my 30-06. The 223 sounds good because I could also use it for deer but I can get a 17 for less. Has anybody shoot with a 17? What do you think?


Here we go again. :x


----------



## johngfoster

mrmcgee said:


> I am new to coyote hunting. A guy I work with shoots coyotes with a 17 rifle and he said it doesn't damage the pelt. He said it goes in and doesn't come out, it turns their insides to jelly. I am going to be hunting coyotes to help the landowner where I hunt, he has cattle, and I turkey hunt there so less coyotes works for me. I don't have that much to spend on a new rifle but I don't want to use my 22 or my 30-06. The 223 sounds good because I could also use it for deer but I can get a 17 for less. Has anybody shoot with a 17? What do you think?


Welcome to nodakoutdoors.com Before you post a question like this, you may want to try the search function. This topic about the 17 HMR has been discussed ad nausium. Just look here: http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/vie ... hp?t=12393
(I'm assuming you are referring to the 17 rimfire calibers and not the 17 centerfire calibers. If you are referring to the 17 centerfires, then also do a search, but they are a much more appropriate choice for coyotes than the rimfires.)

This thread is specifically to debate the merits and differences between the .223 Rem and 22-250. Both are great coyote calibers. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I hunt coyotes with both. My preference is 22-250. If money is an issue, you can get a very accurate bolt-action rifle in either caliber very reasonably. Look at either a Savage or a Stevens (cheap Savage) Great guns for the money. But do your quarry a favor when you hunt--don't go in undergunned.

Good luck, and again, welcome to the site.

John


----------



## mrmcgee

Thank you for your input. Unfortunately, I posted the question and then looked around. I know that's backwards. I did find the rather lengthy debate about the 17 rimfire rifles. I am going to a gun shop today to ask and see what they say. I am not interested in keeping the pelts so untill I come up with a good solution i can use my 30-06. My first coyote kill was during turkey season. I had my turkey decoys out and was calling turkeys when 2 coyotes came to eat my decoys. I dropped the first one in it's tracks at 40 yards with my 12ga using my 3 1/2" turkey load. The other coyote was smarter, he stopped on the hill 125 yards away and left when he saw what happened to his buddy. That day I wished I had brought my 30-06 turkey hunting! ha ha


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## hagfan72

At least it sounds like your turkey calling is good to go!! LOL


----------



## USSapper

So it seems the only disadvantage of the 22 250 is the cost of the ammo compared to the .223. And the disadvantages of the .223 is that it doesnt shoot quit as straight and not as much power behind it at longer distances....Is that correct? Forgive me if Im wrong


----------



## Old Painless

hagfan72 said:


> Hey longrifle, when you shoot these 'yotes, are you saving the fur? I ask because I am going to try to sell some pelts this winter, and i am looking for the most fur-friendly load that i can find. I will be using my .22-250 as well, and so far, nobody has come up with the best bullet to use.





> the best bullet for not blowing up pelts is the FMJ Full metel jacket, due to lack of expansion from the bullet. But I dout you will find this loading in 22-250. So unless you are reloading these are out, also if the shot is not in the vitals the coyote will probaly not go down or stay down for long. The Hornandy V max is a very good bullet for not wrecking pelts. I load 75 grains for my 243 and have not had one exit the back side yet, and that is where the damage happens. The bullet instad enters and explodes inside doing the max damage inside, and the critter goes down most of the time with out even a tail flicker. Hope this helps. And dare to say you will find these in factory loads.


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## Devildog1054

25-06rem. said:


> I shoot the hell out of my .223 rem, and can hold a nikle size, 5 shoot gruop at 300 yrds :sniper:


I am sorry for this having to be my first post, and that this is not in the spirit of this forum. Grouping @ 300 yards in a .7 inch area is about a 1/4 MOA group. You, by your own account, are shooting a .223. In my 11 years in the Marine corp have never seen ANYONE shoot a sub 1/2 MOA group in .223. The best group that i know any 8541, at any distance outside of 200 meters, is just under 1/2 MOA, and that was in .308. So my only request here is if you are going to make a clainm like that i want to see video. If not, you really shouldn't tell stories of that magnitude. I mean at least make it believable.

I am not trying to start a flame, I just have to throw a BS flag on this one.


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## Bloodyblinddoors

Devildog1054 said:


> I am not trying to start a flame, I just have to throw a BS flag on this one.


Welcome to the internet. A ton of false info being treated as factual info. Searching for usefull info could be compaired to panning for gold on just about any of the hunting forums :lol:


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## SDHandgunner

hogcaller said:


> Less powder doesn't make the barrel last longer. The speed of the bullet and the bullet's compostion make the barrel last longer......along with the quality of the barrel. The 204 barrels last about as long as the 220 swift. The bullets have just too much velocity to really get a lifetime out of a barrel.


In actuality it is very hard to WEAR OUT A BARREL. Excessive heat can and does wear the throat of a barrel, lengthening it over time, but to wear out a barrel is not the same issue.

Heat causes metal to wear, melt or burn away, thus wearing microscopic dimensions away from the barrel throat. As the barrel throat lengthens an avid handloader can overcome this somewhat by changing their cartridge overall length to keep the bullets at the same distance from the rifling throat as the barrel throat progressively wears. On the other hand if a person is shooting factory ammo and can not control the cartridge overall length, as the throat wears (and gets longer) the bullets have to jump farther to the rifling lands. The result can be lessened accuracy and also a decrease in muzzle velocity when this lengthening gets to a certain point.

I know guys that have THROATED a barrel so badly that they took it to their favorite gunsmith and had the barrel set back deeper into the action, then the gunsmith cut a new chamber and throat in the existing barrel. The results was accuracy as good or better than when the barrel was new. In fact I know a guy that did this very thing to a barrel twice before he replaced the barrel, and this guy is an accuracy fanatic.

To me it stands to reason that the more powder being burnt in the same size bore, the more heat is going to be created, thus more throat wear. Also to me this is a moot point in a Rifle meant to be used for Calling Coyotes as to the limited number of rounds a Coyote Hunter shoots as compaired to someone that is an avid Prairie Dog Shooter where hundreds of rounds can be fired in a day or two.

Personally I prefer the .223. There are a couple reasons for this, #1 being I have always been impressed at what that small capacity case is capable of producing. #2 I have had many .22-250's over the years and I have never shot one over the screens of my chronograph that actually produced close to the velocity that the load books showed it was supposed to produce. #3, I shoot way more rounds, and spend way more time shooting Prairie Dogs and other small varmints than I do shooting Coyotes, so to me barrel heat is a factor.

In the end they are both excellent cartridges, and both have their place.

Larry


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## varmit b gone

I've always liked the 223 for some reason. I have a remington bdl with bull barrel (heavy to carry but it pays off in accuracy) and I love it. Thats what I would go with but I haven't shot a 22 250 much so I really wouldn't know much about em'


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## cjb41

I just read in a posting that a "22-250 shoots strighter than a .223". I have a number of rifles in both calibers, (same make and model rifle differnt caliber) in two cases. I am a paper puncher for most of my shooting and keep very good recoreds. I have found that I shoot better groups with a .223 than I shoot with a 22-250. I have also found the .223 is less paticular about what you feed it. I love both calibers an have no ax to grind.
If I could only have one of them it would be a .223 for both target shooting and coyote hunting.


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## dynarider68

well I have owned both and for coyote hunting purposes its a .22-250 for me..my hunting buddy shoots a .222 which shots pretty well but I am thinking hes gonna get a .22-250 before next year.


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## Pyroman7489

Thats easy..... my good old 7mm Mag. its cheaper that 30-06, same knock down. will grind up anything you shoot in to hamburger which saves my time on skinning them and i can reach out and explode a prairie dog at 800 yards with a little ajustment to the scope. its fast, accurite, loud, what more could you ask for. ohhh yeah and it's good at shattering the frount shoulder on a deer (great if you dont want them running more that 6 feet).


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## smokeeater

223 vs 22-250? I have shot both guns and currently hunt with an AR in 223. Both good coyote loads in my opinion. One of the reasons I went with the 223 originally was the cheaper and more available ammunition, even though I reload. Has anyone checked ammo prices lately? With the military gobbling up all the 223 ammo they can get their hands on, it's become much more expensive and hard to come by. I used to buy some pretty good shooting Black Hills ammo for about $13 a box. The price has since doubled and lately I can't even find it. Fortunately I am still reloading but surpluss brass has also become extremely expensive and difficult to find.

That being said, I am thinking about adding a 22-250 to my collection now. I love to shoot the AR, and it's very accurate, but quite heavy for a long day of walking between call sites. Anyone have a sweet shooting 22-250 they would like to recommend? I would like to stay away from heavy barrell to keep the weight down if possible.


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## Big A

:beer: You really need both to cover your bases


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## varmit b gone

Smokeeater, I don't have a 22-250, but I might reccomend a Ruger M77 MKII. I just got one in 204 and it shoots great.


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## smokeeater

Thanks for the tip Varmint. I don't doubt the Ruger a bit. The M77 has an excellent reputation as a good shooter. I had one in 30-06 that shot very well.


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## Bore.224

My favorite cartridge was the .223 until I got a Savage 12 FV in 22-250 for Christmas. It will do anything a .223 will do and do it much better, drawbacks are 1.price of ammo 2. would not want a barrel shorter than 24 inches "not really a drawback" 3. not chambered in the vast amount of rifles the .223 is. :2cents:


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## Tyrant

If you AI a .223 chamber you can shoot similar velocitys to a vanilla 22-250 with allot less powder.

75 gr A-max @ 3150 isn't bad

You cannot have too much rotational velocity. I have a 1-8 twist 22-250 AI that I can run 36 grain Varmint grenades @ 4600 FPS with every bullet reaching the paper. Modern tech. has helped bullet jacket reliability.

Don't be scared of wearing out a barrel, they are cheap. 250.00 average plus the gun plumber fee...

I would recomend the AI chamber conversion as well as fast twist barrels. I own Pacnor and Hart barrels. I can't hurt em.... Lilja is highly recomended as well.

Everything I shoot is moly...

Twist the **** out of it, ruin your tumbler with moly and buy your local gun plumber a AI reamer for your favorite 22 centerfire !!
www.reloadersnest.com is a great sight to compare velocitys and decide where to through you money... A chronograph doesn't lie.

My .02$ only
Norm :evil:


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## Kino

Having may dealings in the field with both calibers and owning both my vote goes to the 223. Anything to 300 and there is ZERO difference in killing power. After that the 22-250 has the edge. It all depends on what you will be doing and what its use is but for a callig rifle the 223 is really the way to go. If you live out west and shoot along ways than the 22-250 has the edge BUT I would rather have a 243 for that! 223 ammo is cheaper and more readily available especially on "custom"loads.


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## Bore.224

Kino True , but I don't know about the zero difference in killing power? 55 grn 22-250 hits at 100 yards as hard as a .223 at the muzzel! However you are mostly right if your shot is true dead is dead!


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## Pepper

sorry 222 Have a 22-250 but still love my 222 remington .


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## Kino

Bore.224 said:


> Kino True , but I don't know about the zero difference in killing power? 55 grn 22-250 hits at 100 yards as hard as a .223 at the muzzel! However you are mostly right if your shot is true dead is dead!


I guess when you look at ballistics on paper they are just that....numbers on paper. The 223 has plenty of KILLING power (as us ******** call it) to do its jobs effeciently out to 300. I do agree that the 22-250 has more....Its like saying that a 30-06 will kill an elk but since a 50 BMG has more energy thats the one to go with :sniper:


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## ope_hogman

i really like the 22-250 in my opinion bc it is a great small caliber rifle i have one that was a remington 222. bored out to a 22-250 and it shoots like a charm if there is anyone who knows anything about the 222. please write me


----------



## dsrtegl

For Coyote control I use a .30-06 with 110gr speer spire points. Turns those little f'ers inside out.

but I don't care about the fur, only the livestock.


----------



## Stu_Loves_His_GSP

I sorta skipped ahead but are all having problems getting good bulk 223 ammo.


----------



## FullClip

Yes GOOD .223 bulk is hard to find now. Junk stuff is all over from what I can tell. I finally started reloading for my ar its helped so far, but its hard to find good brass or the time to do it.


----------



## Two_Bits

.220 Swift


----------



## Trickyd12

I shoot a 223 and love the hell out of it. But since this is such a huge Debate i think I am going to have to go out and buy a 22-250 so i can see which is better. Damn.... I have to buy another gun!!!! What am i going to do??!!!???!!! :lol:


----------



## imajeep

seems a lot of people ive talked to have the same opinion, so heres mine...

223 for the simple fact that it was the first i owned, and i shot and continue to shoot the hell out of it.... maybe 2k rounds a year....
cheap to buy, cheap to shoot, and NO recoil.
that means the second round is on its way, usually before the dog even knows whats going on....

in truth though, ive given up on the 223 and have now graduated to the 25-06, WOW what a hammer....

it really doesnt help me in making the big bucks on hides, but i havent lost a hit dog with it EVER.... in fact, some of the carnage is breathtaking....
one was a complete decapitation...
others include total dismemberment, with ALL internals on the ground beside it. 
really spectacular.


----------



## barebackjack

Kino said:


> Bore.224 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kino True , but I don't know about the zero difference in killing power? 55 grn 22-250 hits at 100 yards as hard as a .223 at the muzzel! However you are mostly right if your shot is true dead is dead!
> 
> 
> 
> I guess when you look at ballistics on paper they are just that....numbers on paper. The 223 has plenty of KILLING power (as us ******** call it) to do its jobs effeciently out to 300. I do agree that the 22-250 has more....Its like saying that a 30-06 will kill an elk but since a 50 BMG has more energy thats the one to go with :sniper:
Click to expand...

True. But the 250 shines on less than ideal hits, well maybe not "shines", but a heck of alot more than a .223. The .223 works fine if all hits are perfect, but in the real world this isnt always the case. A less than perfect hit with a 250 will at least slow em down a bit more for a better follow up. IMO. Seems a .223 barely slows em down with crappy hits.

Also wind, the 250 tolerates more wind than a .223. Kind of handy on the wide open prairie.


----------



## regnwy

I shoot both but for coyotes the 22-250 is my go to gun. Seems to keep um down a little better. Switched to the 50 grain v-max this year and have had no exits so far, closest shot just over 100 yards furtherest just a bit under 300 so far with this load. Model 70 featherweight 20 inch tube.


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## billb2742

I just shot a 3 year old Buffalo with a 22/250 at 150 yards. It dropped like a rock. I used a 55 Nosler Ballistic tip. If you can place the shot it will drop. Most people will not agree, read P. O. Ackley, he was a great fan of high velocity. The guide uses a 223 all the time on Buffalo, he said they will always drop with proper placement. No big bores for me.

6.5/06 improved


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## d_handley00

22 VARMINTER OR DIE!
THE 22-250 IS MY FAVORITE MEDICINE FROMS CATS TO ***** TO COYOTES AND CROWS. THE WIMPY 223 HAS ITS PLACE BUT NOT IN MY GUN CABINET. YES THE 223 HAS ITS PROS LIKE CHEAPER RELOADING, CHEAPER FACTORY ROUNDS, LONGER BARREL LIFE, LESS RECOIL, BLAH BLAH BLAH. IF YOU ARE GONNA KILL SOMTHING THEN KILL IT, AND USAULLY THE 22-250 HAS THE BEST BALLISTICS AND OVERALL PERFORMANCE OF ALL OF THE 22 CENTERFIRES. YES YOUR BARREL WILL GET HOTTER AND YOUR THROAT WILL ERODE FASTER BUT IT WONT DO IT AS FAST AS A 220 SWIFT AND YOU STILL GET GREAT BALLISTICS OUT TO 500YDS. ALL THE BULLETS ARE THE SAME SO ITS A TIE THERE BUT IF YOU ARE SHOOTING, ARENT YOU SHOOTING FOR ACCURACY? THEN YOU WILL PAY NO REGARD TO COST IN ORDER TO FEED YOUR GUN WHAT IT LIKES TO EAT. SO, WITH THAT I AM USAULLY PRETTY OPEN-MINDED BUT NOT ON THIS SUBJECT. IWORK AT A GUN SHOP AND I AM SO TIRED OF THESE GUYS COMING IN AND BUYING TOP SHELF GUNS AND SHOOTING WOLF THROUGH THEM AND TELLING ME THAT THEY CANT HIT ANYTHING. ONLY ACCURATE GUNS ARE INTERESTING AND THERE ARE VERY ACCURATE 223'S OUT THERE BUT THE 22-250 STILL REIGNS SUPREME!


----------



## allgamehunter

I don't think that yotes have a preference both work great.


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## trikortreat

i got a 22-250 just a little bit ago. i like it alot more that my 223, i can take longer shots and its more accurate. but everybody has there special gun. i also use a 22 mag witch has worked great. The only thing about my 250 is the trigger, its to touchy, i gota change it with an after market trigger.


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## Yote Buster

jeeze touchy subject for you huh d_handly00. maybe you should start shooting a 300wsm or something if you want to shoot yotes at two mile distances. ain't nothing wrong with a 223 for yotes. they will kill a yote just as good as a 250 just cause they are fater dont mean they will kill faster than a 223 if you put it in the head or ribs. my 223 is plenty accurate. pretty much one hole 3 shot 100yd group. with hand loads. put the bullet where it belongs it don't matter what you use. big or small


----------



## varmit b gone

billb2742 said:


> I just shot a 3 year old Buffalo with a 22/250 at 150 yards. It dropped like a rock. I used a 55 Nosler Ballistic tip. If you can place the shot it will drop. Most people will not agree, read P. O. Ackley, he was a great fan of high velocity. The guide uses a 223 all the time on Buffalo, he said they will always drop with proper placement. No big bores for me.
> 
> 6.5/06 improved


Are you serious? A Nosler Ballistic Tip is made for rapid expansion, and buffalo are notorious for thick hide and strong bone construction. Where in the heck did you shoot it?


----------



## varmit b gone

d_handley00 said:


> 22 VARMINTER OR DIE!
> THE 22-250 IS MY FAVORITE MEDICINE FROMS CATS TO ***** TO COYOTES AND CROWS. THE WIMPY 223 HAS ITS PLACE BUT NOT IN MY GUN CABINET. YES THE 223 HAS ITS PROS LIKE CHEAPER RELOADING, CHEAPER FACTORY ROUNDS, LONGER BARREL LIFE, LESS RECOIL, BLAH BLAH BLAH. IF YOU ARE GONNA KILL SOMTHING THEN KILL IT, AND USAULLY THE 22-250 HAS THE BEST BALLISTICS AND OVERALL PERFORMANCE OF ALL OF THE 22 CENTERFIRES. YES YOUR BARREL WILL GET HOTTER AND YOUR THROAT WILL ERODE FASTER BUT IT WONT DO IT AS FAST AS A 220 SWIFT AND YOU STILL GET GREAT BALLISTICS OUT TO 500YDS. ALL THE BULLETS ARE THE SAME SO ITS A TIE THERE BUT IF YOU ARE SHOOTING, ARENT YOU SHOOTING FOR ACCURACY? THEN YOU WILL PAY NO REGARD TO COST IN ORDER TO FEED YOUR GUN WHAT IT LIKES TO EAT. SO, WITH THAT I AM USAULLY PRETTY OPEN-MINDED BUT NOT ON THIS SUBJECT. IWORK AT A GUN SHOP AND I AM SO TIRED OF THESE GUYS COMING IN AND BUYING TOP SHELF GUNS AND SHOOTING WOLF THROUGH THEM AND TELLING ME THAT THEY CANT HIT ANYTHING. ONLY ACCURATE GUNS ARE INTERESTING AND THERE ARE VERY ACCURATE 223'S OUT THERE BUT THE 22-250 STILL REIGNS SUPREME!


Funny, I have a 223, heavy barrel that I am willing to put up to about any 22-250. It's a custom Remington 700, and I'm running some 67gr. Israli ammo (almost impossible to come by). And we had her sighted where at 500 yards you hold it dead on and any coyote out to 600 is in grave danger (Thats with a good rest of course. It's all about shot placement. You hit them good with just about anything and they'll go down. You just have to know you and your gun's limits. BTW I'm not taking anything away from the 22-250, I's a great round, but the 223 is also good.


----------



## nosib

i have an ar15 hoping to convert it to a 204 but that **** is expensive. it will cost me 500$-800$ to do that. that is a piggy bank breaker.


----------



## MN goose killa

my vote goes to 223


----------



## nosib

i looked up some ballistics and the .223 and 250 are close but the 250 beats it on paper


----------



## predator crazy

jason_n said:


> anyone shot the 204 rueger? i am planning on buying one. just curious if it take factory ammo like a 223 and can goup well :stirpot: im gonna try learn how to skin and try turn a little pofit my 7mm-08 is a little much i want a cal that is effective but leaves a little hole :beer:


 I just got ahold of a .204 and have only ran about 50 rounds through it. We smoked a medium sized bobcat yesterday with it and it dropped her like a rock. Very little recoil and very accurate. I also own a 22-250 and a .223, all perform great on varmints.


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## trikortreat

is 22-250 good for bobcat? i have been wonderin that and idk why i never asked before.


----------



## trikortreat

Yote Buster said:


> jeeze touchy subject for you huh d_handly00. maybe you should start shooting a 300wsm or something if you want to shoot yotes at two mile distances. ain't nothing wrong with a 223 for yotes. they will kill a yote just as good as a 250 just cause they are fater dont mean they will kill faster than a 223 if you put it in the head or ribs. my 223 is plenty accurate. pretty much one hole 3 shot 100yd group. with hand loads. put the bullet where it belongs it don't matter what you use. big or small


 ur tellin me a 22 can kill a water buffalo?????? i would think before i spit that phrase out.....n sorry but my 223 aint takin near the shots my 250 is, guess u just aint takin long enough shots. n dont tell me yer gona hit somethin over 600 yrds with yer 223 like the 250 can


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## trikortreat

trikortreat said:


> is 22-250 good for bobcat? i have been wonderin that and idk why i never asked before.


 never mind it.


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## Yote Buster

what phrase are you talkin bout trick. never said anything bout water buffalo man.... be realistic and not stupid you know what i mean.... actin like a woman putting things outa perportion... and no a .223 doesn't have the trajectory and balistics as a 250 obviously... but i bet you don't make many shots over 600 yards with your FLAT SHOOTING 250 either...just cause it can don't mean its easy....sorry man for firin you up... don't wanna make enimies....it's all personal preference


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## trikortreat

dont want no enimies either i spit that out faster than i could think...bad mood when i was sayin that, but yer right sir, i apologize.

sorry yall for gettin fired up.


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## texasdeerhunter

use a 22-250 with hornady v-max ammo little damage to the fur but tons of damage tho the vitals big exit hole and if you want a small exit hole us 64gr nosler partitions either will do the job but 22-250 is better


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## bigbuck65

22-250 all they way!! i own both and hand load my own bullets. a little heavier bullet saves a lot on the pelt due to slower velocity with the 250. my 250 is dialed in with a half inch group at 200. its embarrassing when i miss!! they are unbelievably accurate at longer ranges than the 223.


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## bigpipesT

yes sir... :thumb:


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## bbrargo

I totally agree with Bigbuck. I also own a 22-250 and when you top it off with any Leupold you can't do any better. BIGBUCK is the man when it comes to rolling dogs out there. i have seen him powderkeg dogs that i wouldn't even consider taking a crack at.


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## coyote sniper

22-250 all the way!!!!!!!!!! :sniper:


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## insanity

Wow, its been years and this thread is still rolling - I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in for what its worth... IHMO most of the debate over caliber comes down to the geography of where your hunting and distance of your shot. On the eastern CO plains there can be quite a bit of wind. That coupled with longer shots the 250 will clearly outperform the 223.

I also think overall accuracy has more to do with the rifle then the specifications of each caliber. I've got a pair of 20" HBAR's that shoot extremely well (One Colt, the other was Frankensteined out of random parts), but with my sporterized K98 Mauser 250 I can keep putting bullets through the same hole @ 100 yards if I'm on my game that day at the range.

Yes, the 250 will burn a little more powder which doesn't matter much to me being that the advantages of the extra reach and wind resilience are crucial in my environment. We're only talking a few cents difference per cartridge on the powder. Even if your not a reloader good quality 223's have gotten almost as expensive as the 22-250's these days anyway. I feel the ammo cost is negligable, especially if you need that extra 'reach out and touch someone' ability the 250 brings to the table.

In my case I don't have a bolt action 223 so I have limited brass life (the mini and the AR's aren't exactly brass friendly), but with the bolt action 250 I'm still using brass my dad passed down to me (his favorite 22-250's were his Ruger's - an M77 and a Number 1). I may be biased being that I grew up around my dad who was a 22-250 fanatic, but its the caliber for me.


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## JxMAN25

so im getting my .223 within a week or 2, so its probaubly gona be a black sinthedic stock shuld i paint it camo or leave it black


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## trappermick

i used a ruger m77 22/250 for 8 years when iwas pro roo shooting they shoot flatter and have a bit more reach tham the 223 but they are a lot noisier for foxes i was using 45gr balistic tips hit a fox on the nose and no damage to skins


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## SaberX01

Here's an interesting 22-250 write up from M. L. McPherson, author of god only knows how may short articles and at least 4 or 5 books that even I know about. Toward the story's end he talks about a .223 & .22-250 outing against PD's.

Title: The Ultimate High-Velocity .22-250 Loads
Link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _76558911/

It's a good read, even if your not a 22-250 fan, the principals could be used for any round to improve accuracy & performance.


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## wgreegor1

hey all new to this but i gotta say own a stevens 200 22-250 have shot all of the 22s love the 250 ammo readily available and around here only 30 bucks for 40 rds win usa 45gr hp yeah im a value hunter i have shot 15 groung hogs so far this season from ranges of 30yds to 350yds not yet seen a round exit one as far as entry a 22 cal hole that it nothin but internal devistation just my 2 cents


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## Bernie P.

I shoot a CZ .223. I were looking for more reach and wanted to stay with the .22's I'd get the .223 WSSM.It's the fastest with advantages over both the .220 Swift and 22-250.


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## airforcehobit

I have been using some barnes tsx and have been having great luck as far a pelt damage but i have only shot a half dozen or so


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## hogcaller

Bernie P. said:


> I shoot a CZ .223. I were looking for more reach and wanted to stay with the .22's I'd get the .223 WSSM.It's the fastest with advantages over both the .220 Swift and 22-250.


Better get an extra barrel or 4 also! 223 wssm can really wear out the throat on a rifle!


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## Cole 270

I like using a .270, cheap shots, long barrel life and coyotes have a hard time standing after a body shot (sometimes even when you graze them). They can shoot accurately a little over 400 yards have the power to take down wolves too.


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## alleyyooper

And the 270 has what in relation to the 22-250 vs the 223 debate? Doesn't compute at all.

 Al


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## hogcaller

alleyyooper said:


> And the 270 has what in relation to the 22-250 vs the 223 debate? Doesn't compute at all.
> 
> Al


Ummmm......they all use primers? LOL

270 will cause way too much pelt damage and would be overkill. That would not be an economical use of powder either!


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## xdeano

not even that!

the 223 uses small rifle primers and the 22-250 and 270 use large rifle primers.

back to the 223 vs 22-250.

22-250 is better  oke:

xdeano


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## hogcaller

xdeano said:


> 22-250 is better  oke:
> 
> xdeano


Damn right! :beer:


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## Bernie P.

hogcaller said:


> Bernie P. said:
> 
> 
> 
> I shoot a CZ .223. I were looking for more reach and wanted to stay with the .22's I'd get the .223 WSSM.It's the fastest with advantages over both the .220 Swift and 22-250.
> 
> 
> 
> Better get an extra barrel or 4 also! 223 wssm can really wear out the throat on a rifle!
Click to expand...

Very true but I really wouldn't stay with .22 for more power/reach.For that I'd go with a .24, .25 or load one of my 7mm with varmint bullets.Granted that would be way overkill but the extra time shooting with one's big game gun can really pay off on deer and such.


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## spitfire_er

I've owned and shot both and both are great calibers in their own. Both also have advantages and disadvantages. I would say in general the average shooter would never know the difference when out in the field and hunting.

I tend to favor the .22-250 due to the capability to have a little higher velocity. I reload so cost is close to neglegent between the two after you get the brass. I like the ability to be able to shoot a little further out with the 250 also. In a bolt rifles most people will not shoot enough to see a price difference if they bought factory ammo also.

When I sold guns at Cabelas, 95% of the people I talked to would be lucky to shoot a box of ammo a year out of a hunting rifle! oke:

If your going to shoot a bunch, and don't reload, get the .223, if your not going to shoot it a bunch get ether. If you want a little more power, get the 250. If you want to shoot out to 500 yards a little flatter, get the 250. If it's not enough power, get a .220 Swift!


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## hunter9494

i have an older .22-250 Ruger Ultra Light and it is real handy and easy to move around and pretty accurate for an ultra light.
i love the gun.


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## DownWindOutdoors

22-250 all the way! The ballistics are amazing and the range of bullet wieghts and types are endless.


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## bcm100

i own a ruger 22-250 and mini 14. i have just started to get into hunting coyotes. i went the other day in sampson county. i set up in a field near where a coyote was howling in the morning. thought for sure i would call one in but only crows showed up. i was down in a ditch where i could not be seen but still saw nothing. if anyone has some good tips please share.


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## Fallguy

bcm100

If you are calling in crows you are making the correct sounds. My guess is that coyote was gone or out of earshot by the time you set up.


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## bigtimehunter

I know this is a little off subject but how many rounds are. 22-250 barrels good for?


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## bigtimehunter

And with a .22-250, is 50 or 55 grain bullets better for yotes?


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## neb_bo

ive been gone 3 years, and this thread is still going? 223. does everything i need. ill say one thing- it doesnt take much to kill a coyote if you take your time and place the shots. that means you hafta know how to shoot, and thats alot more important than what your shooting.


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## wilag1945

do a comparison on 204 thompson contender encore pro hunter with 6 to 24 variable x 50 nikon monarch ,is ok, no good mistake good or bad .Newby comments appreciated and how to get the best from it.thanks a bunch .


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## djkost

Here is something to keep this going. Which is better a AR 15 style or a bolt action. I see Remington came out with a load for the 223 that rivals the 22-250. Also why isn't there a 22-250 in a AR15 rifle? Remington has a 243 in the AR25?? 
Just something to think about.


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## mrmorris

How about a .243? I own one and have shot the other two. The .243 Kicks both thier ***** by a mile. Your going to want to use like a 58g bullet for varmints however. Comparing the three guns, the .243 is faster, has way more energy at the muzzle and at 500 yards, super flat shooting too.
Yes a .223 would way fun to have, I would like to get the Ruger Mini 14 with a 20rd mag!!!

Also a draw back to the .243 is cost and choice of ammo. But when hunting all I shoot is Hornady, nothing but the best!!!!! :sniper: :sniper:


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## jason_n

maybe id buy 22 250 if there was an ar platform. until then 223. if its good enough for our military its good enough for me.


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## MidwestMike

I've got a Stag model 6 AR 5.56/223 w/ 24" bull barrell 1-8 twist that I reload for. It shoots a ragged hole at 100 yds, and a tight clover leaf at 200 yds with 55 gr.Sierra Game Kings and 24gr. of Varget. I have a Vortex Viper 4x12 BDC scope on it, and I shoot a lot. I would feel very comfortable shooting to 300-350 yards on a calm day. I just bought a Win .243 Boss a month or so ago, and have it shooting .295 groups at 100 yards using 70Gr. Nosler B.T. pushed by 41 Gr. of Varget and Win.LR primers. That is after loading 9 different bullets, with different powders, and primers. That gun has a Vortex 8-24x50mm scope,and will be used on windy days that the 223 is questionable on. A 22-250 will be in the gun safe eventually!! Shooting confidence is the ultimate key. Practice, and precision loading is both fun, and rewarding.
Keep shooting. :sniper:


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## mickc

Hi all, great tread. Hard to believe it's going on seven years!!!!
I've been pondering over replacing my Ruger 223 M-77 target with a Sako 85 223 or a 22-250 for a few months now and have been doing a bit of research. The Ruger is too heavy to be carrying the whole time, initially purchased for a different purpose. My varmint (foxes, smaller but similar to your Coyotes) range is approx 200 yards. By the sounds of things the 22-250 is only going to be overkill for my sport. I use Hornady 50g v-max and to date have had successful kills just under 300 yards. I refuse to shoot any further; I'm a hunter not a boaster!! 
Anyhow, any advice on the Sako 85, I have some money put aside for the upgrade, if there is a better rifle worth looking at I'd love to hear.


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## xdeano

mickc,

I had a Sako 85 Finnlight in 243 for the longest time, it was a great little rifle. My only gripes are that it has a tapered base so you can't use just any rings on the rail, you have to buy rings specifically for a Sako 85. The other issue is the twist rate, they need to be a bit faster. Other than that they're a good rifle, they're spendy for what you get though. Take a look at the A7 instead, the rail on top is a standard dove tail system. Another thing that you may want to look into is the Tikka, basically the same rifle, but the bolt only has a 2 lug design over the Sako 3 lug design, which means nothing really, they shoot well also.

I'd say get the 22-250. 

xdeano


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## fisch94

22-250 without question


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## bigtimehunter

Just bought a tika t3 lite stainless in a 22-250 and could not be any happier. I use the hornady superformance 50 grain v-max ammo and get unreal results. The coyotes may not like it but I sure do. :sniper:


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## SBE2

220 swift


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## Custom 22-250

I bought a 22-250 a couple weeks ago.... I love it..... But I'm new to the long range shots..... 500 and up... I've hunted in alaska Most of my life so this coyote hunting and long range shooting is new to me.... Anyway I'm learning.....

:rock: Hey if you saw a ten point standing right over the hill so all you could see was his *** and partial rack what would you do?


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## madd_duck1974

Both are good all around shooting 223.. open area long range 22-250 this ammo is cheap only if you know how your gun is dialed in..

Now i'll throw in another round for you older guys 225 win. This round is like shooting both.. Also this round will break the bank if you can find them,but worth the money.. I shoot a very tight group at 200yrds


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## texcl

I hunt coyotes with my .223 because I prefer the AR platform, it's great for follow up shots and frankly it is gold to 300 yards, I don't think most of us can really utilize the extra range the 22-250 affords but most most can use a quick follow up shot.


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## DuckRunner

I shoot a Savage Axis in .223.... Yes, cheap rifle, cheap round. But hey you know what, I don't need to shoot any farther than 300 yards since that's about as far as I can see in my area of Minnesota. I don't need to have the flattest shooting, 1/4" grouping expensive equipment that a lot of guys have deemed "a necessity" to hunt these days. I could understand if you wanted to really reach out and touch em at 500 yards + but I just don't have the space for that so I don't feel like I need anything more than a .223 where ammo is cheaper than dirt. If I was into reloading and had more room to stretch yeah maybe I'd be more comfortable with a 22-250 but I'm happy with my 7/8" grouping .223 :beer:


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## Viper66

I use both, but prefer the 22-250


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## Gabastone

.243 is the most popular around here in the Midwest. Personally, I use a .22/250.

It almost depends on the gun. For a high dollar rig, the .22/250 would be the better choice. For an el cheapo or AR platform, .223 would get my vote.


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## Viper66

My varmint calibers are the 223 and 22-250, but prefer the 22-250 on yotes...


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