# Ann Coulter's How to Talk to a Liberal



## Plainsman

I have only read the first 15 pages of this book, but this lady has got the far left pegged. Let me share a few examples:

1. Liberals are chock full of conspiracy theories. They invoke weird personal obsessions like a conversational deus ex machina to trump all facts. You think you're talking about the war in Iraq and suddenly you start getting a disquisition on Nixon, oil , the neoconservatives, Vietnam --sound familiar?

2. Were losing on the facts, lets make a movie.

3. The only policemen in the universe who are not aware that "cop-killer bullets" have never killed a cop are the ones on Law & Order.

4. Liberals were better off when there was only three TV stations. Now with cable news conservatives are physically present and liberals are terrified they might have to respond to a conservative point. The counter by filibuster, interruption and hope they don't hear it. I have noticed how often they interrupt. I had simply attributed it to poor manners.

5. Liberals always want to shame republicans into making core concessions before the debate begins. Example: You admit the war in Iraq is a failure, and we will debate how to get out of it. You give us abortion on demand and we will discuss parental notification.

And they wonder why we stereotype them.

This is only five percent of the first 15 pages. This book would be funny if it wasn't so sadly true.


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## Militant_Tiger

"Liberals are chock full of conspiracy theories. They invoke weird personal obsessions like a conversational deus ex machina to trump all facts. You think you're talking about the war in Iraq and suddenly you start getting a disquisition on Nixon, oil , the neoconservatives, Vietnam --sound familiar? "

You mean like me being a plant from a liberal organization. I dunno plainsman you just might be one of us.

"Were losing on the facts, lets make a movie. "

We're losing on facts, talk to the heart not to the brain!

"Liberals were better off when there was only three TV stations. Now with cable news conservatives are physically present and liberals are terrified they might have to respond to a conservative point. The counter by filibuster, interruption and hope they don't hear it. I have noticed how often they interrupt. I had simply attributed it to poor manners. "

What? I thought there was a GIANT gap between the gargantuan left wing media and the tiny soothsayers of the right wing? Did this change as soon as the election ended?

"Liberals always want to shame republicans into making core concessions before the debate begins. Example: You admit the war in Iraq is a failure, and we will debate how to get out of it. You give us abortion on demand and we will discuss parental notification. "

As opposed to the republican "We will attack Iraq, then figure out why" and "We will attack iraq, come up with an exit strategy whenever". Republicans on abortion "If its not legal, my concience is clear" even though they know full well that there will still be back alley abortions where both the mother and the childs life are theatened.

"And they wonder why we stereotype them. "

And yet when I stereotype the republicans I am wrong in doing so? I guess I am unable to comprehend your far superior logic.


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## Ron Gilmore

This article underscores Ann" conspiracy theory!

WEB EXCLUSIVE
By Susannah Meadows
Newsweek
Updated: 2:13 p.m. ET Dec. 30, 2004Dec. 30 - Ohio officials concluded their recount of the presidential vote last Tuesday-reaffirming President George W. Bush's victory. But the state's election woes aren't over yet. As bloggers continue to spin conspiracy theories about a victory stolen from Democratic candidate John Kerry, the Rev. Jesse Jackson plans to lead a Monday rally in Columbus to protest alleged voting irregularities. He warmed up with NEWSWEEK's Susannah Meadows.

NEWSWEEK:What's the matter with Ohio?

Rev. Jesse Jackson: In Columbus, Cincinnati, Akron, Youngstown, Cleveland, where I was, you had blacks standing in line for six hours in the rain. That's a form of voter suppression.

Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell says that machines were allotted based on turnout in past years, and that he didn't realize they'd need more machines until it was too late.
He had to know it because registration was up. Blackwell may have had to deliver for Bush and [Vice President Dick] Cheney and he got a lighter rap than [former Florida Secretary of State Katherine] Harris got. But Ohio may have been more stacked than Florida was.

So you think Blackwell stole the election for Bush?

It was under his domain to have enough machines; the machine calibration, tabulation issue. You could rig the machines. We have reason to believe it was rigged.

What is your evidence?

Based on distrusting the system, lack of paper trails, the anomaly of the exit polls. In Ukraine, there's an exit poll gap, they say, "Let's have another election."

Have you been in touch with John Kerry about the issue? Does he share your concerns?

His lawyers are now involved in a minimal way. We are appealing to him to get involved. We think it should be certified provisionally, until there can be a forensic investigation of these machines, and until there's a random recount. In only two of the counties did they do any hand recounting.

What can be done now?

Thursday is when Congress is scheduled to certify the vote. Kerry should take the floor and ask for a debate on the subject. Kerry pulled out too early. The scrutiny pulled out with him.

If the election were held again with these alleged problems solved, would Kerry win?

Of course I think that. If we deal with the anomalies, a fair random count, the urban-suppressed vote, Kerry would get at least 60,000 more votes. At least! I believe that. I don't know that.

Is it possible that election will be overturned?

I don't know. All we want is a fair count and a transparent election. We can live with the result. We're fighting the odds but we will not faint in the face of the odds.

Move to Florida MT and seek out those groups that are dealing with the grief that Kerry lost! Then move on in your life, or go to Canada as you seem to think little of the majority of the US people. SD saw through the BS and sent Dashle packing the DNC is still recognizing it needs to change and come more to the center and moderate it's positions on guns,God,abortion, and even tort reform! If they can see that people identify the DNC more in line with Michel Moore and not John F. Kennedy then you certainly should be able to see the light if you have any type of grey matter to use!


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## Storm

My father received the book this year from my brother and I thought it was funny. The first line of the book goes something like this, "The first thing you say to a liberal is, "when you move out of your parents house and start paying taxes let my know how you feel." I died laughing because it is so true. Liberals live in a fantasy world and if you ever debate a liberal they have to dodge around the specific issues at hand and start blaming the conservative for every conspiracy under the sun.
Tiger your idea that every Conservative thinks that there will be all these women going out having back alley abortions if Roe vs. Wade is overturned is crazy. This is exactly how a liberal thinks. Lets allow thousands of innocent babies to continue to be killed so that all these women won't go out and die in the alleys having illegal abortions. First of all Tiger the number of women who would go out and have an illegal abortion in some alley is low. Second of all abortion by nature it is very risky if it is done in some clinic in Omaha or any other city by a licensed baby killing doctor. God didn't intend for people to be cutting, tearing, or sucking babies out of mothers. Planned parenthood and other pro baby killing organizations won't relaese the true statisitcs of women who are physically scarred, injured, mamed, or killed by having abortion each year. The numbers are way higher than anyone thinks and this would blow there idea that abortion is some minor safe procedure which it isn't.


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## mr.trooper

"We're losing on facts, talk to the heart not to the brain! "

I thought that was Liberal territory with your "Its for the children" gabage.

This is guna be a good one


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> "If its not legal, my concience is clear" even though they know full well that there will still be back alley abortions


tiger......in a perfect world that's called murder.



Militant_Tiger said:


> where both the mother and the childs life are theatened.


weedhopper......are you saying that a childs life is not threatened during an abortion?????? no really!! your arguments are getting lame. :withstupid:

pointer


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## Ron Gilmore

And this qoute from Newsweek article on Kerry!

"As for Kerry, says this adviser, "he thinks he's the front runner for '08 without recognizing that he needs to do some soul-searching. If he wants to come back, he'll have to come back as a different candidate, not the stiff who plays it safe and takes four sides of every issue."

:sniper:


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## Storm

I hope Kerry runs in 08', he doesn't have a chance. If the Democrats want to get back in the ballgame they had better move back towards the center. Middle america can't stand Hollywood, Michael Moore, or any other radical Liberal who is going to try and shove Same Sex Marriage, Partial birth Abortion, or higher taxes down our throats. If the Dems would of nominated Joe Lieberman or some other conservative Democrat, there is a good chance they would of won the election. But no they go out and nominate the most Liberal Dem in the Senate. The Dems are in a pickle and I love it. A Democrat who wants to win their parties primary has to appease the homosexuals, feminist, environmentalist, unions, and any other wacko group to get nominated, and then try and get the rest of America to go along with them in the general election. It will never happen. Until the moderates retake the Democratic Party, the Republicans will continue to dominate the polictical landscape. Which is good if you want this county to have sense of a moral compass.


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## Militant_Tiger

"when you move out of your parents house and start paying taxes let my know how you feel"

I really love the double standards around here. I say that all republicans are ignorant ******** and I'm a jerk. The republicans say that liberals are sandal wearing hippies living out of their mothers house and its accepted.

"Tiger your idea that every Conservative thinks that there will be all these women going out having back alley abortions if Roe vs. Wade is overturned is crazy. This is exactly how a liberal thinks."

I think you need to look back to the 70's when abortion was made illegal. There were many documented back alley abortions, and many many undocumented ones.

"First of all Tiger the number of women who would go out and have an illegal abortion in some alley is low"

Information courtesy of the Storm Encyclopedia volume #2 section 5 "Pulling numbers out of your ***".

"Planned parenthood and other pro baby killing organizations won't relaese the true statisitcs of women who are physically scarred, injured, mamed, or killed by having abortion each year."

So you think that having a professional with proper tools preforming an abortion is worse than some druggie in a back alley with a bicycle spoke.

"weedhopper......are you saying that a childs life is not threatened during an abortion?????? no really!! your arguments are getting lame. "

My argument is that you are willing to allow two lives to be in danger to clear your conscience.

""If its not legal, my concience is clear" even though they know full well that there will still be back alley abortions

tiger......in a perfect world that's called murder. "

In this imperfect world its called reality. If you would like to continue living on fantasy island be my guest.

"not the stiff who plays it safe and takes four sides of every issue"

I far prefer a man who takes time to think over the implications and possible aftershock of his decisions instead of one who cannot make decisions by himself, as evident with Bush on 9/11, sitting with a blank look on his face as Americans died in burning towers.

"Liberal who is going to try and shove Same Sex Marriage, Partial birth Abortion, or higher taxes down our throats."

Shove? How can you shove equality down someones throat? It is the republicans who think that they are the ones who can decide what is best for everyone. The ban on gay marriage is discrimination just as it would be if it was discrimination by race. Why do you feel the need to shove America apart? Higher taxes? The national debt is currently at 7 trillion 500 billion dollars. Do you really think that you can spend money like its going out of style on wars and not pay for them, or do you hope to pass it onto your kids?

"But no they go out and nominate the most Liberal Dem in the Senate. "

Did you know that Bush was the biggest cokehead in Texas when in his twenties? Where is my proof? Where is yours?

"A Democrat who wants to win their parties primary has to appease the homosexuals, feminist, environmentalist, unions, and any other wacko group to get nominated, and then try and get the rest of America to go along with them in the general election."

And as long as the republicans can appease the nascar watching, stop sign shooting rural voters they will continue to win.

"Which is good if you want this county to have sense of a moral compass."

Moral compass? Where is the morality in denying gays the same rights as straight couples? Where is the morality in attacking countries unprovoked? Where is the morality in forcing abortion set women into back alleys? What you want is republican values, not moral ones.


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## Ron Gilmore

Huh! No quick witted comment about what good old Jesse has to say!

What you and many on the left fail to realize is that GW is a moderate! Look at his social programs like education and Prescription Drugs!


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## the_rookie

funny yet true


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## 4CurlRedleg

Would you be the one turning on the vacuum-grinder in the abortion clinic Mt, or would you be the man weeping when you get to see and hold your child for the first time??

Maybe you've been involved with abortions in one way or another and have no regard, I will say this, you cannot put the definition of morality in the same conversation as abortion, it just doesn't quite fit.

One more thing, you cannot tout the back alley/do it yourself murder as a justification for legalized infantcide. Scott Peterson proved that for us in the most liberal state in the Union. It is a life that can be taken from as early as conception.


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## Militant_Tiger

4CurlRedleg said:


> Would you be the one turning on the vacuum-grinder in the abortion clinic Mt, or would you be the man weeping when you get to see and hold your child for the first time??
> 
> Maybe you've been involved with abortions in one way or another and have no regard, I will say this, you cannot put the definition of morality in the same conversation as abortion, it just doesn't quite fit.
> 
> One more thing, you cannot tout the back alley/do it yourself murder as a justification for legalized infantcide. Scott Peterson proved that for us in the most liberal state in the Union. It is a life that can be taken from as early as conception.


It is the mothers choice. Scott killed the mother and removed her choice of birth or abortion. Instead of offering counseling before and after the operation, the prior to see if they can be talked out of it, and the latter to help them cope, you have decided to try to put them out in the cold. If a woman really has the desire to have an abortion she should not be denied her choice. The only women who cannot be talked out of it are the same ones who will go to the back alley physician to get the operation preformed.

"What you and many on the left fail to realize is that GW is a moderate! Look at his social programs like education and Prescription Drugs!"

You mean the failure no child left behind that he refused to fund or his disapproval of allowing seniors to go to canada to buy the same drugs for less, such that they can eat and live at the same time? Yes he is very moderate.


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## 4CurlRedleg

A million plus since Roe v Wade, thats alot of coping don't you think!

Can't use the word choice either, or this just may happen someday. " I think it's time to put grandpa down, he is becoming such a burden on the family."
Choice?

I am not out to shred you Mt, just trying to understand the left's thinking on this issue for I feel it all unfounded in the whole scheme of things.


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## Storm

Hey Tiger thanks for letting me know that I have an Encycloppedia named after me. I should be seeing some royalty checks anyday now in the mail!!

You posted a long e-mail and I would like to respond to some of your points. First of all I was pointing out some humor from the Ann Coulter book. Much like you would point out some humor from a Michael Moore book. I don't think all Liberals live at home and don't pay taxes, but I do think that Liberalism is fundamentally wong and this seems to be the sentament of the rest of the country as we now have a Republican president, congress, Senate, and I believe the majority of Governors.

Now onto the abortion thing again. I spent quite a bit of time writing you earlier on this topic and you wouldn't ever seem to answer my questions. Is a baby a life or a choice??? That's a no brainer it's a life as I proved earlier. If it isn't Tiger than prove to me and everyone what else is it.

Your back alley theme of how all these women are going to line up and let some druggie stick a bicycle up into them is a common line used by the pro-baby killing left. So if you are going to use that logic than why not let licensed pharmacist make methampetimines to sell to the general public, including high school students. They are going to do drugs anyway, and we don't want to allow some girl to be cooking her own drugs. She doesn't know what she is doing and she might blow her self up. Or even worse she might make a batch that will kill several friends. As you pointed out on the death penalty, two wrongs don't make a right.

Now onto the homsexual issue. In the past you have talked about being religious and knowing the Bible. Do you know how God speaks of homosexuality in the Bible. I will give you some examples:
Read Genesis Chapter 19: Sodom and Gomorrah
Read Leviticus Chapter 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a women, such a thing is an abomination."
Read Romans 1:27 "and the males likewise gave up natural realtions with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
Read 1 Conrinthians 6:9 "Do not be deceived, neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor ********* will inherit the kingdom of God. 
This list goes on. No where in the Bible is homosexuality talked about in a positive light. In fact it is characterized by such language as "abomonation." 
This craze with homosexuality is a relatively new thing. Hollywood and the media is dominated by liberals which in turn are dominated by homosexuals. Now before you jump me Tiger, I don't think all Liberals are homosexuals, but there are way more homosexuals that are liberal than conservative and they have found a home in the Democratic party. All you have to do is turn on the t.v. and watch the lastest sitcoms. Everyone of them will have a gay character and this character is always portrayed as a fun loving good guy or gal. Name one sitcom where the gay guy is portrayed as being bad. This is a new thing, it didn't happen twenty years ago. So we now have a generation of children growing up thinking that homosexuality is a great thing. It's just the same as a heterosexual relationship. This is the homosexual agenda get the general public or at least the next generation to think that it is o.k. and we will change society. And Tiger you have bought into it hook line and sinker. It won't be long before we are then next Sodom and Gomorrah (Chapter 19 in Genesis).

And last but not least, If we don't define marriage as between one man and one women where do we draw the line. Say not only two guys want to get married, but they want 6 of their friends to get married with them. And one group wants a women included in their group. Why not let polygamy come back. I wouldn't want to discriminate against a guy in Utah that wants to marry 6 women and two of them are his daughters. Tiger look beneath the surface of Liberalism. If you do you will find out that there isn't anything there it's just surface.


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## huntin1

Plainsman I hope you don't mind this, but it kind of goes along with this thread.

*M_T, here is a story just for you. Let's make believe that you are the young girl in this story.*

A Father Daughter Talk

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age she
considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and was for distribution of all wealth. She felt
deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican which she expressed openly.

One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the
rich & more welfare programs. In the middle of her heart felt diatribe based upon the lectures she
had from her far left professors at her school, he stopped her and asked her point blank, how she
was doing in school.

She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to
maintain. That she had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party like other people
she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends
because of spending all her time studying. That she was taking a more difficult curriculum.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Mary." She replied, "Mary is barely
getting by", she continued, "all she has is barely a 2.0 GPA" adding, "and all she takes are easy
classes and she never studies." But to explain further she continued emotionally, "But Mary is so
very popular on campus, college for her is a blast, she goes to all the parties all the time and very
often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too hung over."

Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct
a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0." He continued, "That way
you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter visibly shocked by the fathers suggestion angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair!
I worked really hard for mine, I did without and Mary has done little or nothing, she played while
I worked real hard!"

The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

This story represents only one aspect of the liberal way of thinking, but I think it outlines it very well.

M_T, I don't expect that anything any of us say will change your mind. Maybe, after you have lived on your own and provided everything for yourself for awhile instead of receiving everything you need from your parents you will began to see things differently. But then again, maybe not.

Plainsman, if you don't think this appropriate in your thread, go ahead and delete it.

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

" but I do think that Liberalism is fundamentally wong "

In that it requires paying for government services, and lets people do what they choose as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else save a few instances?

"Is a baby a life or a choice??? That's a no brainer it's a life as I proved earlier. If it isn't Tiger than prove to me and everyone what else is it. "

That is like saying is a car a vechicle or an easy way to get killed. It is both. It is the mothers choice in the first place, and the mothers choice after conception. If she changes her mind, she should have access to do so.

Considering only one or occasionally two of the sperm ever make it into the egg out of the millions which attempt, you republicans must cry a little tear every time someone has sex.

"Your back alley theme of how all these women are going to line up and let some druggie stick a bicycle up into them is a common line used by the pro-baby killing left."

And your lines are those commonly used by the "Abortion is wrong" and "I haven't adopted or given any time to a big brother program" right.

"So if you are going to use that logic than why not let licensed pharmacist make methampetimines to sell to the general public, including high school students. They are going to do drugs anyway, and we don't want to allow some girl to be cooking her own drugs."

Abortion is a life choice. It can be as important to a young girls life as dropping out of high school. Deciding whether to do drugs or not is not such a weighty decision.

"Now onto the homsexual issue. In the past you have talked about being religious and knowing the Bible. Do you know how God speaks of homosexuality in the Bible. I will give you some examples: 
Read Genesis Chapter 19: Sodom and Gomorrah 
Read Leviticus Chapter 18:22 "You shall not lie with a male as with a women, such a thing is an abomination." 
Read Romans 1:27 "and the males likewise gave up natural realtions with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. 
Read 1 Conrinthians 6:9 "Do not be deceived, neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor ********* will inherit the kingdom of God. 
This list goes on. No where in the Bible is homosexuality talked about in a positive light. In fact it is characterized by such language as "abomonation." "

Back in those days people were stoned to death for adultery. Do you suggest that we bring these days back? Also, if they will not be admitted to heaven, who are you to decide for them whether they want to or not. This is like saying that we will stop all muslims from practicing their religon, as they are hethans and wont go to heaven.

"Hollywood and the media is dominated by liberals which in turn are dominated by homosexuals. Now before you jump me Tiger, I don't think all Liberals are homosexuals, but there are way more homosexuals that are liberal than conservative and they have found a home in the Democratic party. "

As have the blacks, probably because tolerance and equality is one of the last things republicans concern themselves with.

"All you have to do is turn on the t.v. and watch the lastest sitcoms. Everyone of them will have a gay character and this character is always portrayed as a fun loving good guy or gal. "

Wouldn't that be a lot like having a crazed evil muslim guy on a sitcom? Of course it wont happen because it portrays a minority in a bad light.

" So we now have a generation of children growing up thinking that homosexuality is a great thing."

If your childs mind is so weak that it can be influenced towards homosexuality by a television program than you have failed as a parent.

"And last but not least, If we don't define marriage as between one man and one women where do we draw the line. Say not only two guys want to get married, but they want 6 of their friends to get married with them. And one group wants a women included in their group. Why not let polygamy come back. I wouldn't want to discriminate against a guy in Utah that wants to marry 6 women and two of them are his daughters. Tiger look beneath the surface of Liberalism. If you do you will find out that there isn't anything there it's just surface."

Frankly who are we to discriminate against polygamy either? It is a tradition in some sects, and hurts no one else. Incest is obviously a greater problem in your neck of the woods than in mine, why don't you tell me the solution to that?

The problem with conservativeism is that its base is no longer about being fiscally conservative, but denying rights to people and wild spending.


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## Storm

Tiger get up in front of a group of black and tell them that you compare the homosexual movement to the civil rights movement. They will run you off. Blacks that I have spoken to you are greatly offended when they are compared to homosexuals.
Polygomy is wrong and has been rightly banned.
You still haven't answered the question is the unborn a choice or a baby. Your answer of both is a cop-out. If it is a baby than it is murder which supercides any choice any person makes. Remember when I asked you if you are o.k. with your neighbor killing their one day old baby. They are making a choice to kill their baby and it is considered murder, unless the women would decide to go to some sick abortion doctor that will kill that baby for 1,000 dollars.


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## Militant_Tiger

I am not comparing gays to blacks, I am simply stating that republicans are not tolerant and thus get very few minorities in their group. Exactly how many blacks do you know anyhow?

"You still haven't answered the question is the unborn a choice or a baby. Your answer of both is a cop-out. If it is a baby than it is murder which supercides any choice any person makes. "

A cop out? It is the truth, whether you want to accept it or not. It can be a child, or it can be a dead fetus based on the mothers choice.

It is rather stunning how little of a problem you have killing a fully grown thinking Iraqi citizen, and how much of a problem you have killing an unthinking fetus.


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## mr.trooper

Dont yo think its rediculous to classify a fetus as life or not depends on on whether or not the mother wants it to be?

No such thing as Reltive truth. its either alive all the time or dead all the time.


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## Militant_Tiger

mr.trooper said:


> Dont yo think its rediculous to classify a fetus as life or not depends on on whether or not the mother wants it to be?
> 
> No such thing as Reltive truth. its either alive all the time or dead all the time. its a bunch of bull.


Isint it the mothers choice beforehand as well, do you think that rediculous?

You know most people aren't alive but 75 years or so, not too many people are alive all the time.


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## Plainsman

Plainsman said:


> 1. Liberals are chock full of conspiracy theories. They invoke weird personal obsessions like a conversational deus ex machina to trump all facts. You think you're talking about the war in Iraq and suddenly you start getting a disquisition on Nixon, oil , the neoconservatives, Vietnam --sound familiar?


Or pro choice, anything to derail the subject. But then killing the unborn needs to be addressed. So maybe a new thread is in order.


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## mr.trooper

yes, she has the right to decide when, but if she has made that dicision than i think she is responcible to follow it through. if a cingle celled abmeba is allive, than a mass af thoulsands of geneticaly aganged, growing tissue isnt?


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## Militant_Tiger

We have addressed the issue many times, and as soon as you all start kicking down and helping out the women that you forced to give birth is the day I become a pro lifer, until then you really aren't going on much.


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## zogman

Huntin 1,
I love the father/daughter talk story. I have heard it before, but it is always a good read. It is a story that liberals won't respond to. Weedhopper aka militant_tiger and others can't spin this one oke: oke: oke:


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## Militant_Tiger

Must have missed that one. You see that would be communism and marxmism, neither of which is what liberalism is about. If you would like to keep thinking that you can spend out the wazoo on a war and still have low taxes though, you are about to have a rude awakening. The less taxes that are taken out of your paycheck now will be equaled by a higher percentage later in life, when you really need the money.


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## Ron Gilmore

"The less taxes that are taken out of your paycheck now will be equaled by a higher percentage later in life, when you really need the money."

So who are you to say I do not need that money now! That I may need it more in the future!

* That is the crux of the root problem with Liberalism!*

By the way I would do a Goggle search and see if in fact Sweden had been attacked by Militant Muslims! Might surprise you!


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## Militant_Tiger

"So who are you to say I do not need that money now! That I may need it more in the future! "

Ok I'm going to explain this to you as simply as possible.

You have 10 dollars, and in 2004 you were taxed 1 dollar out of it because of bush's tax cuts, when the taxes would normally take 3 dollars. Because of this, the debt grows two dollars. Now the next year that debt will need to be paid off, and you will thus be taxed 5 dollars, 3 for the normal tax and the 2 that you missed with his cuts. You see it will all equal out in the end, but for several years we will be paying out the *** in taxes to make up for what this no tax and all spend conservative did. I sure hope you don't need anything big from 2008-2012.


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## Ron Gilmore

MT I like your Dashle logic! It failed for him also! 
If I can keep my money today for investments in my business or personal retirement, I will have and be able to afford down the road the things you assume will happen!

When SS gets reformed and entitlement spending getting taken under control we could realize even greater tax cuts in the future! This is just as likely to happen as your scenario. You side with pessimism I tend to look toward optimism.

Cuts in spending are needed, which if you look back at the last 40 years it has not been the Dem's looking to spend less, but more on most of the major entitlement programs we have.

You point to the NCLB program as being underfunded, but in reality the money appropriated has not even been spent! Teachers Unions across the nation do not want accountability for teachers! So they are running around claiming lack of funding! This from Fact check.

Prescription drugs is another case of Dem's wanting to spend more while not giving the ones that need it any additional benefits. On importation I think both sides are right and wrong on this issue. See Canada has already stated that they would not allow the exportation of these drugs if it would drive up their costs from the MFG companies. This is what would happen basically cutting off the supply to the US consumer again! Move past the talking points and look at the underlying issue with drugs.

By the way nothing is preventing you from sending in more taxes than you owe! If you feel you are under taxed be a man and send in the difference. I on the other hand feel overtaxed and want additional cuts in both taxes and spending!

Nothing and I mean nothing should be hands off! Much of the work that the Gov does should be privatized to reduce waste. Nothing is more wasteful than our Gov in its programs and implementation of them.


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## racer66

Hopperweed, you're my HEROE. uke: :sniper:


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## Militant_Tiger

Did you ever know that you're my "HEROE"? It is really good to know that the one person around here not willing to sling insults because they have run out of real material is the ignorant one, who will learn with time. I hope I can grow up to be just like you all.


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## gandergrinder

Here is my problem with people who oppose tax cuts.

When tax cuts are made where do you think the money goes? Do you think it magically disappears? No it stays in the economy, where it is allocated the most efficiently. I always laugh at the people who say that the top whatever percent already has so much money we should tax them more. Why would you want to take away the incentives of the smart and talented. Society rewards these people with money. In return they give us new technology, new drugs and a whole assortment of things we all enjoy. These people make our lives better because they work hard.

Even you Militant Tiger believe the government does a poor job of allocating the resources. Here is your quote:


> The national debt is currently at 7 trillion 500 billion dollars. Do you really think that you can spend money like its going out of style on wars and not pay for them, or do you hope to pass it onto your kids?


How anyone with any sort of brain can think that the government can allocate the resources better than the market is beyond me. The plain and simple truth is that the government does not allocate resources better than the market. But what you want to do is give the govt more money. Seems like a rather strange concept given your belief that the resources aren't being used correctly. The govt is doing a poor job. I know lets reward them by giving them more money.

Democrats-People who see the world as they wish it would be.
Republicans- People who see the world as it really is.


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## Ron Gilmore

And he can call geese too! :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:


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## Militant_Tiger

> When tax cuts are made where do you think the money goes? Do you think it magically disappears? No it stays in the economy, where it is allocated the most efficiently. I always laugh at the people who say that the top whatever percent already has so much money we should tax them more. Why would you want to take away the incentives of the smart and talented. Society rewards these people with money. In return they give us new technology, new drugs and a whole assortment of things we all enjoy. These people make our lives better because they work hard.


Do you really think that the average Jimbo can invest his money better than the government?

Secondly, if Jimbo get 1000 dollars more of his own money, and spends it on say a new rifle, and that buisness doesn't pay any more taxes, that money is not getting back to the government.

When is the last time a rich individual gave anything innovative like these wonder drugs or a republican car that runs on talking points? Also, how exactly is the economy given a boost because the rich become richer? Aren't they rich in the first place because they spend very little of the money they earned? We don't have to go on theory here either, it is evident in the economy of the past 4 years and of now. The economy tanked for nearly four years, and is barely rebounding now. The nation debt is now also gargantuan thanks to a lack of taxes to help pay it off.



> Seems like a rather strange concept given your belief that the resources aren't being used correctly. The govt is doing a poor job. I know lets reward them by giving them more money.


That is like saying that an alcoholic has been drinking a little lately, better not reward him with more help. Just shove him out on the street.



> Democrats-People who see the world as they wish it would be.
> Republicans- People who see the world as it really is


Republicans see the world as they tell you it is. Democrats see the world as it can be.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> Do you really think that the average Jimbo can invest his money better than the government?


let me put it this way........hell yes.....that has been proven over and over and over again.



Militant-TIger said:


> Secondly, if Jimbo get 1000 dollars more of his own money, and spends it on say a new rifle, and that buisness doesn't pay any more taxes, that money is not getting back to the government.


it may not about immediately go back to the government but it eventually does ten fold.
let me explain it where even a knucklehead like you could understand.....

jimbo got a thousand dollar tax refund courtesy G.W. BUSH......

jimbo spends the money on a new rifle putting the money back into circulation good for the economy.....the rifle salesperson makes a profit and pays some taxes at a lower rate courtesy of G.W. BUSH.....

he gets so excited by his new found wealth that he orders more rifles from the acme rifle factory.....

Now the acme rifle guy has made a profit and pays some taxes at a much lower rate courtesy of G.W. BUSH......the acme rifle guy gets so excited by his new found wealth that he orders so more steel and lumber to make more rifles.....

now the steel and lumber guys have made a profit and pay some taxes at a much lower rate courtesy of G.W. BUSH.....and it goes on and on.

meanwhile back at the ranch jimbo decides that this work thingy really pays off so he decides to put in some over time........

he gets his paycheck and after saying a few hosanas because of being taxed at a much lower rate by G.W. BUSH.....jimbo decides to buy a new shotgun.....and the process repeats itself.

now this is where it gets complicated weedhopper so pay attention cause i'm gonna ask questions later.......if you miss one then you don't get fruit cup.

this is what is called BUSINESS IN THE FREE ENTERPRIZE SECTOR.....free enterprize works much better without government intervention and over taxation.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

"jimbo spends the money on a new rifle putting the money back into circulation good for the economy.....the rifle salesperson makes a profit and pays some taxes at a lower rate courtesy of G.W. BUSH.....

he gets so excited by his new found wealth that he orders more rifles from the acme rifle factory..... "

So your entire system is of the base that someone will get excited and send off to buy some more rifles for their shop in their excitement. Now the only flaw with this is that if the guy from the rifle shop had the money to keep his shop open, and the rifle factory had the money to stay open, they will still all pay the exact damn amount of taxes whether those rifles were bought or not, thus putting 0 new cash into the system and leaving us with this giant hole in the pocket of America that we call the debt.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> So your entire system is of the base that someone will get excited and send off to buy some more rifles for their shop in their excitement. Now the only flaw with this is that if the guy from the rifle shop had the money to keep his shop open, and the rifle factory had the money to stay open, they will still all pay the exact damn amount of taxes whether those rifles were bought or not, thus putting 0 new cash into the system and leaving us with this giant hole in the pocket of America that we call the debt.


did that not make sence to anyone beside me??????????

weedhopper................ that peanut sized thing you have in your head is called a brain. try usin it! that statement is the most utterly rediculous one that you have ever made and that is speakin volumes.

pointer


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## pointer99

one other thing weedhopper.......

if you are gonna post so much .......learn to use the quote feature. it's not that complicated. i know you are a liberal and would want a conservative to do the work for ya........but we are busy makin money and payin taxes and just don't have time. also for the amout of space you take up here go over to the suporting member slot and pay up. i know you would want to pay your fair share........consider that a voluntary tax. hehehehehe.

pointer


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## Ron Gilmore

To bad the No Child Left Behind Prgram came in to late for Weedhopper! :jammin:


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## pointer99

Ron Gilmore said:


> To bad the No Child Left Behind Prgram came in to late for Weedhopper! :jammin:


yeah the bus he rode was so short it looked like a yellow phone booth.

pointer


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## Militant_Tiger

"weedhopper................ that peanut sized thing you have in your head is called a brain. try usin it! that statement is the most utterly rediculous one that you have ever made and that is speakin volumes. "

Lets try some logic.

Scenario 1.
Person A gets a tax break for 1000 dollars, and buys a flat screen tv with it. The store then therefore makes that 1000 dollars, but they got the tax cut too (tax cuts for the rich) and thus don't give that 1000 back to the government, but rather sit on it in case the store needs renovations sometime in the future. This money does not get back to the government.

Scenario 2. Person B gets the 1000 dollars as well, and invests it into Ford. Ford then takes that money and puts it into a new factory in asia because the labor is so much cheaper, and begins producing cars from there. This money does not make it back to the government.

So because this is the way things work, I am a moron?


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## Plainsman

The reality is millions of people get tax breaks and have money to spend. Whatever they spend it on, lets say TV's then the appliance store makes a larger profit. This larger profit gets taxed, but at a lower rate. This business can then spend, or reinvest, but whichever they do the money gets passed along where another person makes a larger profit and pays more taxes, even though at a lower rate.

Lets say that 10,000 workers in a city get an extra $1000 tax return. 1000 of them buy a new TV. The TV sales increased the business profit from $50,000 to $75000. He paid 30% tax on the $50,000 for a tax burden of $15,000, now he makes $75,000, but he only has to pay a 25% income tax. He did get a tax break, but his tax burden is now $18,750 . This process was proven to work during the Reagan administration. The take home pay with $50,000 was $35,000 while the lower tax rate with more dollars paid in still resulted in a take home profit of $56,250. The original taxpayer wins, the TV business wins, the government gets more tax revenue


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:



> Lets try some logic


o.k but be careful not to hurt yourself........i know it's your first time.



Militant_Tiger said:


> So because this is the way things work, I am a moron?


YES

pointer


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## mr.trooper

"We have addressed the issue many times, and as soon as you all start kicking down and helping out the women that you forced to give birth is the day I become a pro lifer, until then you really aren't going on much."

im sorry. WHAT?

That made so little sence my head spun. but i THINK i know what you were trying to say. your saying we need to help th women. Ok, fine.

Go fetch me a pregnant woman. ill help he with anything she wants...OTHER than murdering her child. im SOOOOOOOOOOO insensitive.

An by tha way, im not forcing her to give birth...NATURE IS. She started it, nature finishes it, and its not ANYONES place to stop it.


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## pointer99

good nite yall some of us have to work tomorrow..........if you find out who these people are let me know and i'll try to assist in getting them on welfare.hehehe

good nite to you too weedhopper...............hope i didn't make you too mad.......and by that i mean i hope i made you mad just the right amount.

LATTERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,

pointer


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## gandergrinder

MT wrote


> Scenario 1.
> Person A gets a tax break for 1000 dollars, and buys a flat screen tv with it. The store then therefore makes that 1000 dollars, but they got the tax cut too (tax cuts for the rich) and thus don't give that 1000 back to the government, but rather sit on it in case the store needs renovations sometime in the future. This money does not get back to the government.


If the store decides not to use the money then guess where it goes? In a bank. Guess what the bank does with it? It loans it out. Guess what people do with loans? They spend it. It's called multiplier effect. 1 dollar going into the economy ends up being a much greater amount.

Honestly, do you have any clue at all about how the financial institutions work in this country or have you been hiding in a corner?



> Scenario 2. Person B gets the 1000 dollars as well, and invests it into Ford. Ford then takes that money and puts it into a new factory in asia because the labor is so much cheaper, and begins producing cars from there. This money does not make it back to the government.


Of course labor is cheaper in Asia. Why do you think we outsource labor to other countries? It's called competitive advantage. We do what we do best they do what they do best and then we trade and everyone is better off. We are moving towards a global economy and you can try and fight it but you're going to be drug along kicking and screaming whether you like it or not. SEE THE WORLD AS IT IS AND NOT HOW YOU WANT IT TO BE.
How can you know where you're going if you don't know where you are. That's the problem with the Democratic party right now.

This might come as a shock to you but all economic indicators show that life in the US is getting better and better. Even for the bottom 10% life is getting better.


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## 4CurlRedleg

Well put Jed! :wink:


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## huntin1

I think we should give M_T a break, after all he's only 16, probably has not had basic econ in school yet, and has lived his entire life in a warm fuzzy liberal, see only what you want fantasy world. :wink: :wink: 
:lol: :lol: :lol:

:sniper:

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

mr.trooper said:


> "We have addressed the issue many times, and as soon as you all start kicking down and helping out the women that you forced to give birth is the day I become a pro lifer, until then you really aren't going on much."
> 
> im sorry. WHAT?
> 
> That made so little sence my head spun. but i THINK i know what you were trying to say. your saying we need to help th women. Ok, fine.
> 
> Go fetch me a pregnant woman. ill help he with anything she wants...OTHER than murdering her child. im SOOOOOOOOOOO insensitive.
> 
> An by tha way, im not forcing her to give birth...NATURE IS. She started it, nature finishes it, and its not ANYONES place to stop it.


I'm not sure how the hell you derived that from my statement. Let me clarify. If you are denying the choice of abortion, it is your duty to either adopt that child if it is given up, or help to support that child either by donating your time or money.



> If the store decides not to use the money then guess where it goes? In a bank. Guess what the bank does with it? It loans it out. Guess what people do with loans? They spend it. It's called multiplier effect. 1 dollar going into the economy ends up being a much greater amount.
> 
> Honestly, do you have any clue at all about how the financial institutions work in this country or have you been hiding in a corner?


So then the people with loans spend it, which goes to the electronics store again, who give it to the bank, who loan it to more people. All you have succeded in is putting people in debt. You are running on theory, I am running on fact. You can keep thinking that this money will magically get back to the government, but the poor state of this country is proof that this system does not work, even with Bush's major tax cuts.



> I think we should give M_T a break, after all he's only 16, probably has not had basic econ in school yet, and has lived his entire life in a warm fuzzy liberal, see only what you want fantasy world.


You know I used to be a republican, or so I thought. I was ten at the time. I then came to realize that you can't run a country on optimistic words alone, and that the repubicans are all talk and no walk. I grew up, realized which party has the beliefs that will aid America the best, and I have thus chosen my party.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> You know I used to be a republican, or so I thought. I was ten at the time. I then came to realize that you can't run a country on optimistic words alone, and that the repubicans are all talk and no walk.


a republican at age ten.........wowsy wowsy wooo! hehehehehehehehehehe i put a call in to chenny he seemed disappointed that you had left the party.



Militant-Tiger said:


> I grew up, realized which party has the beliefs that will aid America the best, and I have thus chosen my party.


that kinda blows the theory......" with age comes wisdom"........but thanks for sharin there gramps.

pointer


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## gandergrinder

> You can keep thinking that this money will magically get back to the government, but the poor state of this country is proof that this system does not work, even with Bush's major tax cuts.


I DON'T WANT THE GOVT. TO GET THE MONEY. I don't want to give the govt. more money to spend on programs that benefit the stupid and lazy of this country. You keep thinking that the govt is going to get the money and reduce the debt. They are going to do what they always do. Spend it on some horse**** social program that benefits people who make bad decisions or impliment it into some policy that would have worked if it hadn't been twisted and manipulated by some politician who doesn't understand what the hell they are doing. Meanwhile the hardworking people have to pay for all of this crap because people like you think that we should tax them more.

I believe in the Republican ideology. That doesn't mean I believe the people who represent the republican party impliment these ideologies into policy in the best way. There is a difference.

My belief in less govt has grown stronger in the last year and a half because of the amount of work I have had to do with various govt. agencies. Many of the people I have worked with have been so incompetent that it makes me ill. They are slow, they don't do what they say and they are involved with some infighting between another agency and they don't want to give me information because it might help someone. All of which I as a taxpayer should get because I paid for it in the first place.

I have spent more time in the last year and a half waiting on someone than actually working. My patience has grown thin. I no longer want to apply for a govt job because I know I am going to have to work with a bunch of people who don't give a crap because they are going to get paid either way. We need to privatize more govt programs so they run more efficiently.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> So then the people with loans spend it, which goes to the electronics store again, who give it to the bank, who loan it to more people. All you have succeded in is putting people in debt. You are running on theory, I am running on fact. You can keep thinking that this money will magically get back to the government, but the poor state of this country is proof that this system does not work, even with Bush's major tax cuts.


weedhopper you know most of my posts to you are in fun.......but i say this in all seriousness....... you do not have a clue how business works.

when money is passed along though the economy retailers and wholesalers make a profit.......they pay taxes...... they hire more employees because of supply/demand when money is more readily available to consumers and businesses via tax cuts. these new emplyees pay taxes and spend money which is called growing the economy.

if you tax hell out the economy it stagnates.....less money is available to consumers to puchase goods and services so people/consumers cut back and tighten their belts. when this happens jobs are lost due to thefact people are spending less.

IF YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND THIS THEN YOU ARE TRUELY A MORON which i don't believe. .... i actually think you are a bright kid..... however if you tell anyone i said that i'll deny it.

i think the truth lies in you and you know it but won't admit it. you are so blinded by your hatred of anything conservative that you are unwilling to accept fact.

i have spelled out for you in terms of how business .....economy and taxaition work in terms that my fourth grade daughter could understand.... twice. keep an open mind ......... just because a source is liberal or conservative does not make it so....... consider your sources ......throw them all out and search for the TRUTH.

pointer


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## pointer99

gandergrinder said:


> You can keep thinking that this money will magically get back to the government, but the poor state of this country is proof that this system does not work, even with Bush's major tax cuts.
> 
> 
> 
> I DON'T WANT THE GOVT. TO GET THE MONEY. I don't want to give the govt. more money to spend on programs that benefit the stupid and lazy of this country. You keep thinking that the govt is going to get the money and reduce the debt. They are going to do what they always do. Spend it on some horse**** social program that benefits people who make bad decisions or impliment it into some policy that would have worked if it hadn't been twisted and manipulated by some politician who doesn't understand what the hell they are doing. Meanwhile the hardworking people have to pay for all of this crap because people like you think that we should tax them more.
> 
> I believe in the Republican ideology. That doesn't mean I believe the people who represent the republican party impliment these ideologies into policy in the best way. There is a difference.
> 
> My belief in less govt has grown stronger in the last year and a half because of the amount of work I have had to do with various govt. agencies. Many of the people I have worked with have been so incompetent that it makes me ill. They are slow, they don't do what they say and they are involved with some infighting between another agency and they don't want to give me information because it might help someone. All of which I as a taxpayer should get because I paid for it in the first place.
> 
> I have spent more time in the last year and a half waiting on someone than actually working. My patience has grown thin. I no longer want to apply for a govt job because I know I am going to have to work with a bunch of people who don't give a crap because they are going to get paid either way. We need to privatize more govt programs so they run more efficiently.
Click to expand...

tiger read the above post......

gander just put into a nutshell what happens when the government manages anything........it get screwd.......privatley run things run more effeicently that government run things..... social security will become more efficent if people are allow to manage some of their own money..... look at return upon investment.....it is pitiful....... the gov has way too many folks sittin on their duff ....underqualified cause someboby had to fill an affirmative action quota somewhere.

read the above post carefully......... it is firsthand truth/fact.

pointer


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## the_rookie

MT im not even going to try to answer any of anything that u have said. None of it makes sense and most of it is rediculous anyways and ur comment

"So because this is the way things work, I am a moron?" MT

WELL DUH because your not even consider our sides of the story

P.S. on a personal note I think ur a moron


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## mr.trooper

"you can't run a country on optimistic words alone, and that the repubicans are all talk and no walk."

:lol: "its for the children" :rollin: "Assault weapons will flood our streets" dd: "Whos Osama Bin Laden?" :rollin: "America is a nation made up of many many states. Im not sure how many exactly..." :laugh:

Yup, you democrats alwase do what you say. and you alwase show your intelectual superiority, and you alwase know what your talking about! BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :rollin:


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## the_rookie

(bill clintons voice) I did not write that post or did not mean to affend MT in any way wait yes i did


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## Militant_Tiger

> I believe in the Republican ideology. That doesn't mean I believe the people who represent the republican party impliment these ideologies into policy in the best way. There is a difference.


You know in theory I agree with the basis of the republicans standings, but it is not ran as such. Heck if things ran as they did on paper I would agree with marxism too.



> I DON'T WANT THE GOVT. TO GET THE MONEY. I don't want to give the govt. more money to spend on programs that benefit the stupid and lazy of this country. You keep thinking that the govt is going to get the money and reduce the debt. They are going to do what they always do. Spend it on some horse**** social program that benefits people who make bad decisions or impliment it into some policy that would have worked if it hadn't been twisted and manipulated by some politician who doesn't understand what the hell they are doing.


You know we were out of debt for a while, so that can't be all true. If you feel this way however, how do you propose to pay off the current debt?



> when money is passed along though the economy retailers and wholesalers make a profit.......they pay taxes...... they hire more employees because of supply/demand when money is more readily available to consumers and businesses via tax cuts. these new emplyees pay taxes and spend money which is called growing the economy.


Understood, and makes logical sense, yet again on paper. As shown in the real world there was a major job slump during the incumbent's first four years, even though he gave large tax cuts.



> i think the truth lies in you and you know it but won't admit it. you are so blinded by your hatred of anything conservative that you are unwilling to accept fact.


You can put it this way. If the election was tomorrow, and the democrats had the same policies as the republicans, and visa versa, I would most certainly vote republican. I simply agree with more of their points.



> P.S. on a personal note I think ur a moron


Well isin't that the pot calling the kettle black.



> "its for the children" "Assault weapons will flood our streets" "Whos Osama Bin Laden?" "America is a nation made up of many many states. Im not sure how many exactly..."


If you would like I can reccomend a book of "Bushisms" for you. By the way, its always not alwase.


----------



## gandergrinder

Militant Tiger,

I am asking you honestly here. What role do you believe government should play in our society? I'm trying to understand what you funamentally believe and what you base your positions off of. Maybe then I can understand where your coming from.

I'll go first. I believe the governments role is to make sure that people are supplied with basic needs. These basic needs in my definition are; food, water, shelter, education, defense, a sanitary system and a justice system to prevent infractions on basic human rights. Other than that I really think the govt should stay out of most everything else.



> You know we were out of debt for a while, so that can't be all true. If you feel this way however, how do you propose to pay off the current debt?


How do I propose paying off the debt? Economic growth. It is that simple. You cannot spur economic growth by taxing the hell out of people. It takes away the incentive for people to work hard. I am going to get the work of the last nobel prize winner in economics and post it on this page and maybe then you will understand why higher taxes do more harm than good in the long run.


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## pointer99

Militant_Tiger said:


> Understood, and makes logical sense, yet again on paper. As shown in the real world there was a major job slump during the incumbent's first four years, even though he gave large tax cuts.


no not just on paper...........clinton inherited a growing economy from bush senior. he presided over a dot com bust that was driving an ecomony that was a sham....... even greenie greenspan knew it...... he called it an over exuberant stock market driven by enthusiasm and greed.

it was on the verge of going bust when bush inherited it....... clintons tax increases were stagnating the economy.......... then the major finacial hub of the world was destroyed and everything crashed based on fear.

now remember the last two words of the last two paragraphs.....fear and greed......these are the two driving forces of the market. greed dove the market to new heights in an economy that was stagnated then fear crashed it basicly in 48 hours in an economy that was stagnating.

something had to be done.........now this is where the tax cuts come in.....it took a while but we are begining to turn the corner......businesses are hiring and people are spending....... the economy is growing.

list of leading economic indicators continue to point positive.......it's not on paper grasshopper.....it's for real. a growing economy expands the tax base and even though people are paying less taxes more people are paying them........businesses may be paying less taxes on the dollar but they are generating more dollars to pay taxes on.

a growing economy can spend it self out of debt........instead of taxing itself out........... you give a politician an extra dollar and i will guarentee you he will find a way to spend it.

pointer


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## gandergrinder

This should get you started.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...volution+of+international+income+levels&hl=en

Pay particular attention to the information in the catching up section on page 50. You will begin to understand why I hate government intervention so much as it restricts the flow of resources and slows the growth of everyones standard of living.


----------



## Militant_Tiger

> I am asking you honestly here. What role do you believe government should play in our society? I'm trying to understand what you funamentally believe and what you base your positions off of. Maybe then I can understand where your coming from.
> 
> I'll go first. I believe the governments role is to make sure that people are supplied with basic needs. These basic needs in my definition are; food, water, shelter, education, defense, a sanitary system and a justice system to prevent infractions on basic human rights. Other than that I really think the govt should stay out of most everything else.


I also believe that intervention should be kept to a minimum, which it is not with the republicans. If they really did things like you stated, and gave us the basic needs but stayed out of everything else, things would be swell. Unfortunately the republicans want to not only tell you what is moral and immoral, but enforce it upon you. That is too much intervention for me. I think the government should provide optional programs for those who have special needs, but not make them necissary to have.

The problem with that you've said pointer is not that Bush inhereted a failing economy, but that he did nothing to prevent it from continuing it's downward spiral.


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## zogman

Come on Weedhopper. Just answer for all of us GG's question


> I am asking you honestly here. What role do you believe government should play in our society? I'm trying to understand what you funamentally believe and what you base your positions off of. Maybe then I can understand where your coming from.


 QUIT THE FLIPPIN SPIN AND ANSWER THE QUESTION!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Militant_Tiger

I just did, if you want a two word classic republican style answer you will be disappointed.


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## the_rookie

> Well isin't that the pot calling the kettle black


can anybody tell me what this means i dont speak liberal


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## racer66

Hopperweeds mommy and daddy have done a real piece on him.


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## Militant_Tiger

the_rookie said:


> Well isin't that the pot calling the kettle black
> 
> 
> 
> can anybody tell me what this means i dont speak liberal
Click to expand...

I believe it's english that you are having a problem with, not liberal speak.



> Hopperweeds mommy and daddy have done a real piece on him.


Let me guess, your pappy voted republican?


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