# Unemployment in the 30s: the real story



## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

What was that about The New Deal not creating jobs, or helping The Great Depression?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...a-administration-usemployment-new-deal-worked


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> There is some degree of truth to the notion that that economic stagnation didn't really get turned around until the war.


I am old enough to have talked to many people who were alive then. They told me that the war is the only thing that brought an end to the depression. There was even a lot of talk about us knowing that Pearl Harbor was going to be hit but the president didn't do anything about it. England said they sent word of intercepted Japanese messages that they were en route to Pearl Harbor for an attack.
I don't know about those old conspiracy theories. I do know that the CCC provided jobs, but they were paid for by the government and didn't stimulate anything in the private sector that influenced stocks. The federal government isn't on the stock market.

War has brought us out of depressions and brought prosperity. My father was upset with a neighbor that said "we farmers have never had it so good". That was during the Korean war and my father told the neighbor "you can keep your blood money, I would rather starve".

It's articles like the above and the liberals bragging about Roosevelt that makes me think history isn't worth the paper it is written on. I'll give you an example. While visiting the Custer Battlefield in the early 1970's the nearby local restaurant had pictures (copies of originals on tin) of dismembered and mutilated soldiers. There were also a few at the visitors center. Last time I stopped a new park superintendent said that never happened and she was rewriting the history of the Custer Battlefield. I think some history about the depression is just like that.

Some things I know of interest about the depression. Gas and food were rationed. My grandfather had a small hand mill that he and neighbors used to make their own flower. One neighbor canned richardson ground squirrels. I wish I would have asked why they didn't have chickens or something. I don't know the reason why they had such a shortage of meat. Perhaps the bank still held papers on everything they had. I really don't know. To late to ask now. I do know that we don't know what hardship is, and the world is now so full of liars we may never know the truth about that time in history.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Oh, one other interesting thing. Back in the depression years is when they started social security. I think it was supposed to be one percent of your salary. I know it was voluntary. Since that time they made it mandatory, they increased the percentage, then they robbed the funds. Guess which party did every one of those things?


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

Not all jobs are the same, Private sector and government. The jobs created in the private sector create tax revenue from payroll withholding, increasing the amount contributed to the U S treasury. The jobs created in the government sector funded by tax dollars and increase the amount of taxes needed from the private sector.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

plainsman,you do not have to look to hard to find some one that remembers the first Depression, I will be 84 this summer and remember it too well. North Dakota also had a severe drouth and a grasshopper tsunami .My parents were some of the more fortunate as we had live stock, Cattle,hogs and chickens. All the young men joined the CCC which was a godsend,and so was the WPA,The WPA rebuilt our road that was all sand and after they were done it was possible to drive a vehicle on it. just try to imagine not having any money and have a family to feed.we had a young man ask if he could stay with us and work for room and board during the winter. This was common,the large Steven's Ranch in our county had all their summer crew do the same in the winter. I well remember my father and I driving tg visit a friend in the spring and around his farmstead were all his cattle dead as they of course starved without any feed,they were not home,but my dad in the later years said they had hid as they were ashamed to have him see their plight. Things did begin to improve by the middle thirtys. Of course the war did put every one to work.I am writing this in Hong Kong, the richest city and also the most Hi tech city in the world, Every day at one of the Pubs I visit with Tourist from all over the world and they see Obama as the only person that can do any thing to improve the economic crises. I believe that some of you hard liners would just pull in your horns and have a little patience and give the man a chance. I have seen the best and the worst in my life and considered it a honor serving in WW 2 and the Korean war. And still have faith in my countries ability to recover from this mess.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

Good to see you posting here again Mr. Dokken!

If you ever get to Seattle, it would be my pleasure to take you out to dinner.

Hope you are doing well. I just spoke tonight with my Grandfather who grew up in Dawson, and had family who farmed around Lake Isabel and Lake Ashley, just celebrated his 89 birthday and remembers the Great Depression, CCC, and WPA well. He too fought in WWII (as did his other 4 brothers) serving at Paris at the Generals' HQ. He also has many stories similar to yours.

Hopefully you can come back again more often and provide us some insight into the various Presidential administrations and economic swings you have lived thru!

Take care

Ryan


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

addoken when I wrote my response I was wondering if you would post. I don't think the 30's were much different than today. My wives mother is now 95. You and my brother are about the same age. Talking with some they thought FDR did ok, talking with my brother and our parents they thought he did terrible and welcomed WWII. It would appear that there was as much division then as now about how FDR handled the depression. Obama was not right last night when he though that was all settled. No more right than the people now think the matter about Obama's birth is settled.
I think everyone is giving Obama a chance, but last night he lied to us. He said that Japan didn't do anything about it's financial crisis in 1990 and it took them ten years to recover. I like many would have believed it if I had not been watching FOX news who had Dick Morris on. The fact is Japan did the same thing Obama wants to do now, only on an even bigger scale and it did nothing.
I don't really consider that a news conference last night. It was simply a dog and pony show. I see the public support is going down hill. It's getting lower every day. So he is trying to push and use scare tactics. Then we get liberals saying fear monger about conservatives. 
addoken what the heck are you doing in Hong Kong? We lost track of you. I thought maybe I didn't get any coyotes last week-end because you trapped them all. 



> Hopefully you can come back again more often and provide us some insight into the various Presidential administrations and economic swings you have lived thru!


Hey Ryan want to listen to ours? 

Oh, adokken was it also your experience that although life was tough on the farm that you had your own gardens and could produce your own food while things in the larger cities was real tough? My parents said there were a lot of soup lines in the cities. 
A lot or the work on our National Wildlife Refuges was done by the CCC. I have a couple of old friends that worked on what is now Arrowwood National Wildlife Refuge. Now that I am an old retired geezer I often have coffee with a crowd of old fellows at Hardees (cheap coffee fellowship club). The only problem with our group is the faces keep changing faster than I can remember names.  I think you would have a hoot with us. At least about ten regulars are there every morning.


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

adokken, its good to have input from someone with your experience, thanks.
My parents were born in 1924 and grew up on farms in southern Minnesota. It was always interesting hearing their stories of the 30's. They always said they had it good, food,farm wasn't mortgaged, etc. They burnt corn in the stove because it was cheaper than buying coal! Those living in the city were not so fortunate.

I am critical of the stimulus plan. I believe we need a to jump start the economy, I just believe that it should be done soon and not have a lot of wasteful spending (dog park's,etc.) attached to this bill just because it is going to get passed. Put that in a separate bill, there's two years before the next election,they have time.

Throwing large amounts of money at anything will result in something happening. It just not prudent. Being wasteful is not the way I was raised or what I have learned. I have only experienced the economic ups and downs from the late 60's because I was born in 1951. Those recessions weren't much fun either, even tho it wasn't as deep as the great depression.

Last night it was said that "only government can create the jobs needed" that's just wrong. Government is to create a climate for business's to expand and create jobs that increase the income tax contibutions to run the government.

If it takes $400b in tax cuts to working Americans and lower corporate tax to jump start the economy quick, they should have a bill to that effect. If it takes another $400b over the next two years in infrastructures like roads and bridges, alternative fuel, etc. don't ram it thru the congress, they should take the time to get it right so things aren't icluded that only benefit a small geographical area, like dog parks in San Fransisco ( i think that is where it was earmarked for), schools are state and local governments responsibilities, etc. etc.

$800b stimulus spending is going to cost each of the 300m workers over $2700 in increased taxes in the future to pay it back, unfortunately it will be my kids and grand kids that will have to do it.

I try not to take a hard line against this plan, I just would like it done a little more responsibly.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

If I'm not mistaken, what Japan did was pour all their resources into banks, which left them with a bunch of barely solvent banks. Then, to make it worse, they were in a deflationary spiral, so people were just sitting on their money. Even the banks were depositing money in each-other, rather than lending it, both because it had a high return relative to the market, and because nobody wanted to borrow.

It's not like we're talking about paying people to dig holes and fill them in again under the auspices of some new government agency. These are going to be private sector jobs, working on projects that just so happen to be paid for by the government.

Dog and pony show? If he were in charge of the questions, I sincerely doubt the question on Iran would have made the cut.

Frankly, I think we're in for a 3+ year recession no matter what we do, and this plan is going to keep a lot of people employed who wouldn't otherwise be. The icing on the cake is that a lot of useful things will be built. I don't understand how that could be a bad thing.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Bowstring, you mentioned earmarks. One thing Obama can do to help is be truthful with us. Last night he said there were no earmarks in his plan. The thing is full of earmarks. Not only that many of the earmarks I think are rewards for support. I think it is 250 million that ACORN would be able to access. 
He also didn't tell the truth about Japan spending money just like this in the 1990's and that didn't work. 
I will never be for a plan that lets ACORN get any money. They mess with our elections and should not receive public funds to do so.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Dog and pony show? If he were in charge of the questions, I sincerely doubt the question on Iran would have made the cut.


  You didn't listen close enough. They were not trying to hide it. Before it started they told us they were hand picked. Why else would he have talked for ten minutes about that. Yup timed it. He was prepared for each question. As poorly as he did without a teleprompter in the past I was wondering if he used one last night or just practiced a lot. Either way he did a very good job, I just didn't agree with him.

Did you miss when he looked down at his notes and called for a name. Chuck, Chuck, Chuck, where are you? Twice it was very noticeable he was picking specific people who had cleared questions.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

The money you see going toward ACORN is part of an increase in funding for faith-based initiatives. They just so happened to add community-based ones in with it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

omegax said:


> The money you see going toward ACORN is part of an increase in funding for faith-based initiatives. They just so happened to add community-based ones in with it.


Faith based excluding Christian? I don't think we should be letting them get their fingers in faith based either. Definitely not anything ACORN can get their hands on. Now I have two reasons not to like that part of the plan. Thanks.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

Fair enough about the dog and pony show... however, at least they didn't tell people what to ask. He got Fox, CBS, ABC, Reuters, AP, Helen Thomas (UPI?)... it wasn't like it was fly-by-night organizations where they would sacrifice their credibility to get into the room. The question from Major Garrett wasn't a picnic... nothing like having to side step a question about the gaffe-machine Joe Biden.

I just remembered this: Remember that time that they planted that lady at a Bush press conference to ask him about his faith, and she stumbled over the question and he finished it for her?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I just remembered this: Remember that time that they planted that lady at a Bush press conference to ask him about his faith, and she stumbled over the question and he finished it for her?


No, I don't remember that. Did he just catch on to the direction of her question, or do you think he knew it ahead of time. A fellow I worked with would sometimes start to ask a question. He did it so slow that it drove me nuts and I would often finish his sentence. He used to get ticked at me for that, but I didn't have the patience to wait forever for him to spit it out.  One of my bad habits I guess. I try not to do it, but I have been told I often interrupt a conversation when I know what they are going to say and can't get it out. That and if I don't answer I am going to forget what the question was before they state it.  You might be able to tell I am on cup number ten of my caffeine fix right now.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I just had a phone alert. They are not sure who did it, but something new was just slipped into Obama's plan before the vote. It would let the government decide about health care procedures for senior citizens and if procedures were to expensive. Got to go, I am making a call to get it out. I guess it's on FOX news and Specter (spelling) and some democrat from Montana kept saying well if it's in there we will get it out. Then they were asked "if it's in there, don't you know what is in the bill". So Specter was going to vote for it without knowing what's in it. What' s he getting out of thisi?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Well, it looks like our old buddy Daschle may be the guy who had his fingers in this one. As a senior citizen I sure don't want the government deciding my health care no matter who my insurance or doctor is.

I can't believe they want to rush this through and most don't know what's in it. That's how we get crap out of government. Rider bills are bad enough, but voting on something without knowing what's in it. This is nuts.


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## omegax (Oct 25, 2006)

I'm working to find info about the lady with the faith question at the Bush press conference, but I'm going to have to get to work, here... I'll see what I can do a little later. All anybody seems to want to talk about is the shoe-chucking.

I seem to remember it being the last question in an East Room press conference... however, now, I don't know I'd swear to it as the gospel.

There was a lot of conjecture about her being planted, but I have to admit, I don't know it was ever proven. It may have just been the fact that she tripped over the question and he finished it, the question itself seemed a little out of place, and it was shortly after the Jeff Gannon thing.

I really want to dig it up, now just because I'm really curious....


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Omegax, I understand, and I have no idea about it. I'm just skeptical I guess because Bush was blamed for so many things. I remember during the last debates a fellow on here going nuts because he though Bush knew the answers because he was wired. He claimed he could see the wire under his suite. The funny thing is most presidents are wired and have contact to the secret service. People so often sweat the petty stuff I guess.

I don't really care that the questions were picked last night. I was impressed they told us. He looked good. I just didn't agree with him. As a matter of fact I get a little put out when any politician twists things and expects me to believe it. That takes care of about 90 percent of them doesn't it. If they pass this stimulus package they all need to be taken to the wood shed.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Say addoken what would you think of a senior citizens form? An over 55 group where the kids can't bother us and we can talk old times? Anyone up for that? I think that would be a lot of fun.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

A forum for people our age would be ok,but about the time we would get it going,it would get so filled with rancour that every one would quit. Just kidding.
When I said we were fortunate because we lived on a farm,that did not mean that life was not hard. We had friends from town that gardened on our place, and every one shared what they could. 
It may surprise every one on here,but fur prices were good and some trappers made a good income in the winter. I caught my first mink in 1935 and had been trapping before that so started at a early age. It sold it for $ 12.00 a small fortune for a nine year old boy.
Ryan I may get to Seattle some time this summer if I go to Alaska for a visit. So will give you a call. Do have one on Palin as we seen Russia from the air on the way to Hong Kong. 
I made a five day trip to Vietnam while here and that is a experience in it self, it is a poor country but the people are really nice and friendly,they are like every one on this planet just trying to have a better life.


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## hunter9494 (Jan 21, 2007)

the stimulus package will pale in comparison to the bank bailout needed..
Geitner suggested, not officially, that $2 trillion ought to cover everything.
holy $hit! fire up those damn money presses and fast! 8)


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> they are like every one on this planet just trying to have a better life.


adokken, I have often thought the same thing. We just keep getting messed up by politicians. I don't know why the power hungry always feel that other countries are their business. Leave them alone, then if they screw with you fry them. I am all for minding our own business, but when roused to action I would lay waste.

I wish I could remember the dates my grandfather talked about trapping. I was surprised that he said his most valuable fur of the time was badgers. I can't remember why he said their fur was popular. Do you know why they were so valuable at one time?


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Plainsman
Interesting; I believe right now in our area, day and age badgers are at $45 average, which is one of the highest per pelt values amongst popularly sold fur in ND today.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

MossyMO said:


> Plainsman
> Interesting; I believe right now in our area, day and age badgers are at $45 average, which is one of the highest per pelt values amongst popularly sold fur in ND today.


Marty... does that include badgers that are shot? Or is that prime with no bullet hole?


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## Bowstring (Nov 27, 2006)

Wow, and I thought 50 cents for a pair of gopher feet was big $$$. And they were easy to trap too. :lol:


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

R y a n
I was qouted that from a taxidermist last week, he did not specify on how the critter was taken. His prices on jack rabbits ($1.00)and coyotes($5.00) was par with other fur prices I have been hearing this season.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

I decided that the coyotes needed to build up the population again besides the price was not there. Winter badger are the nicest fur in North Dakota, Sold badger for over $200 during the fur boom. Now the fur market is in China and they are also depressed. I am in Hong Kong because I have family here. It is a fasinating place and when we go to the airport and compare it with some of ours it makes a person wonder. Hong Kong and Singapore have the most modern airports in the world. We traveled on Singapore Air from SF and believe me coach on SQ is as good as business on NW, Anyway its time to visit a local pub and strike up a conversation with tourists.HK has many sattelite comunities and we are in one by the name of Stanley.I am also on Face book, if anyone likes to see pictures of my travels.


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