# Wind Farms and hunter access



## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

I have been reading alot about all the wind farms popping up in ND. The big wind companies seem to sashe right thru the PSC and the community. It sure seems to me that the liability clauses in these wind contracts are going to encourage alot of landowners to post their land. If there is a wind turbine on every hilltop in ND, it sure seems like the authenticity of the hunting experience is going to be ruined.

Any thoughts resident hunters?


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

It should be interesting what will happen when the migration happens during a snow storm. I know if the wind is to strong the turbines automatically stop turning. The wind farm north of Rugby should be good for a few thousand birds if they try to fly through there during a storm.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

From what I have seen the birds are adapting. Last fall I watched canadas and ducks buzz in and out of fields dodging turning windmills like they were nothing more than big trees. That doesn't mean we won't lose a few. We don't have windmills on evey hilltop and I hope we never do. I personally think they are a blight to the landscape.


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## takethekids (Oct 13, 2008)

We have quite a few of them in KS these days and they are UGLY!!! I don't like the way they look, but I like the clouds coming out of the coal-fired power plant even less. Nuclear is the way to go IMO. Not sure what to do with the waste, but there is enough open space on our planet's sub-surface to store it until we do find a solution. If they do put windmills up everywhere, wouldn't it be nice if they had wildlife areas (public access WAs that is) at every one. A little habitat surrounding these areas would make them look better to me


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

I don't think its wildfowl flying into them thats the potential real threat.The main concern is their effect on nesting.Will it force locational change?Since many of the best 'wind' areas in the US happen to also be in the heart of the most important waterfowl nesting areas,a serious concern.
Its my understanding 'studies' are being prepared and/or are underway.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

I don't think you guys have seen what it looks like when the snows get pushed through here in a snowstorm. It has only happened once in the area I live in for many many years. I'm looking forward to see how the turbines hold up to a couple thousand geese flying blindly into them. Bam Pow!


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

buckseye said:


> I don't think you guys have seen what it looks like when the snows get pushed through here in a snowstorm. It has only happened once in the area I live in for many many years. I'm looking forward to see how the turbines hold up to a couple thousand geese flying blindly into them. Bam Pow!


I have spent enough time around the turbines, the spring snow migration came through while we were working one in a snow storm. The birds are never even near them, the generally go over them and not between the clusters.

You are correct, when the wind picks up the turbines shut down. If there is a chance it will get bad out the operators will shut them down. I have been around turbines off and on for the last 10 years and have never seen a bird strike.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

TK33 said:


> buckseye said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think you guys have seen what it looks like when the snows get pushed through here in a snowstorm. It has only happened once in the area I live in for many many years. I'm looking forward to see how the turbines hold up to a couple thousand geese flying blindly into them. Bam Pow!
> ...


The snowstorm migration I saw the birds were barely clearing the poplar trees for a full day. We could see maybe 30-50 ft. and yes we did get some limits. We got so much snow during that storm no one could even deer hunt. The roads were blocked, a 4x4 couldn't even get around... were you in on that one? Did you see that one? :beer:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

The birds will adjust to them. I have been around the Rugby and Velva farms and have not seen any thing that would suggest a problem. I am guessing it is a non issue.

They sure do screw with the beauty of an area though. Hopefully they are doing us some good, seems like the jury is still out on that one.


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## jpallen14 (Nov 28, 2005)

Nothing like making the landscape look like crap. I personally will never live in site of one.


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## iron sights (Sep 24, 2009)

Visit my web site to learn about the adverse affects of industrial wind farms.
All hunters need to check this out.

www.savecoteauprairielandscape.com


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## Centerfire (Jan 13, 2006)

I think a lot of the farmers are very short sited, jumping at a quick buck without looking long term.

I wonder how many have been surprised at the amount of field lost to service roads or the fact that they have to be more careful when moving that auger not to hit the low hanging transmission line. Now the fields have to be planted and farmed different because of these roads. Forget any possibility for future irrigation. And if they go away some day are there any provisions for turbine and foundation removal, will the service roads be removed and restored to farm land. I asked one of the rep's about that - his response was we look at them as permanent (in other words no provisions, my take anyway) .

It is their choice but I personally don't want to open up the door to giving up any property rights. I have turned them down twice now, but ultimately I will be the one getting burned, I still have to look at all of them, hear their low frequency vibrations (they are so dam big from over 2 miles away they still look like they are sitting on my property).

They have been putting them on some very picturesque property around the state - no regulations or value placed on that by the State of ND - Too Bad For Us

I say if the big metro areas need the energy - put them up where they are at (you know the metro's - will not allow the visual polution) but it is OK for us to look at them.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I see they just put up a bunch more N. of Bismarck - starting to look like Kulm now towards Wilton.


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## Kris brantner (Sep 22, 2009)

i like how the goverment sues the crao out of an oil company if they spill and kill a couple of birds, yet they are all for the big wind farms


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## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

Guys, this wind plan is total bs. Its a play on the Federal Tax Credit. It will do nothing about carbon emissions or oil. Not a damn thing. Taxpayers are subsidizing these wind farms and we have to look at them.

Hunters it will eventually limit your ability to hunt. I agree they are horrible to look at. What really gets my dander is the PSC.

There are no real dedicated hunters on the PSC. I guarantee that hunter access never crosses their mind when it comes to rubber stamping these permits. Look at how much $$ the PSC has received from the wind farm proponents like Florida Power and Light, Nextera, ect.

The PSC is in their back pocket. ND sportsmen you seriously need to wake up to this. ND politicians want to be #1 in wind energy. That is ALOT of land locked up from hunting.


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## SnakeyJake1 (Mar 22, 2005)

Windows kill 10000 times more birds than wind turbines. Guess we better not use them anymore either huh?

Also as far as land reclamation when a tower comes to the end of it's useful life, the PSC mandates that the land must be returned to it's original state, unless a new structure is erected in it's place.

I'm sorry that some people do not enjoy the intrusion of their view, but I would take this minimal intrusion over the lung burning pollution that they endure in China.

As far as putting them by population centers, you should check out the numbers they have in California and Texas. Rather large cities there.

I guess you can't please everyone.......


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## Centerfire (Jan 13, 2006)

I don't know about you but I have never had a duck or goose fly into my windows - some metro areas may allow them but I know there is a fight in the Twin Cities area over them now.

Yes they may be a necessary evil - but I don't have to like them.
The hills west of Kulm sure don't look like they did anymore - looks like a string of Christmas lights all year around


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Buckeye here is some information for you:

Reprint Number: NPWRC 0176 (Not Available)
Avery, M. L. and Springer, P. F. 1973. Investigation of bird migration and mortality at the Omega Navigation Station, LaMoure, North Dakota fall 1972 and spring 1973. Pages 169-170 In Cones, H. N. and Jackson, W. B. editors. Proc. 6th Bird Control Semin. OH: Bowling Green State University. 281 pp. 
Full Record

Reprint Number: NPWRC 0336 (Not Available)
Avery, M. L. and Springer, P. F. 1973. Progress report on bird losses at the Omega tower [abstract]. Proceedings of the North Dakota Academy of Science 27(1):2.

I remember the power lines that cross Chase Lake. People thought they were killing no, or very few birds (pelicans from the Chase Lake colony). No birds were ever found under the power line. I don't remember how this came about, perhaps they sent a technician out to observe for a week or something. Anyway, they thought all the birds were avoiding the power lines. When they were watching as the young birds learned to fly birds were hitting the wires. Evidently coyotes had learned to watch also, because they came in and picked up the birds that stuck the power line and fell to the ground. Nature was cleaning up before biologists could find birds when they visited seldom.
I think the problem you guys are talking about is being looked at. I have no idea what's happening as far as bird strikes and wind towers. However, keep in mind the tower is there 24/7 and we perhaps observe it for a few minutes perhaps even a day, but that tells us nearly nothing.


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## trentmx_05 (Apr 16, 2008)

There are new studies underway right now which are looking into the actual effects of turbines on migrating birds, as well as nesting success inside vs. outside the wind farms. A study was also finished last year on the transmission lines that run along HW 83 between Audubon and Sak. There are more strikes than one might think.
Results should be interesting.


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## Skip OK (Jul 16, 2006)

Does anyone know if the very fact that land is partof a wind farm will make it "off limits" to hunting?

Maybe I missed the answer to this when I read this thread a few days ago,but it appears that no one has address this issue.

I can see an argument that land with any sort of electrical generation project would be considered "posted" unless otherwise marked. With a coal or gas fired plant, that isn't too big a deal; who want to hunting next to a factory anyway.

But with Wind Farms, this could block lots of land.

Does anybody know the rules?


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

no, or at least not everywhere. The wind farm leases or rents the roads and tower sites, the no trespassing signs apply to them. The rest of the land could be posted by the landowner.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the bottom of the turbine blades is somewhere around 100 feet off of the ground, the last one I worked on was 120 feet from the ground. You would have to be doing some pretty irresponsible shooting to hit a wind turbine. Deer, antelope, and coyotes were all bedding down by the turbines and it seems to have no effect on them either. The roads usually go to two or more turbines and have one way in and out, there are not random roads everywhere on a wind farm, and you do not see many roads that only go to one turbine.

There are negative effects on wildlife in any kind of energy work, whether it is coal, nuke, or wind. Just like the coal mines, the wind farms are strictly monitored by game and fish and the epa.


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## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

Strictly monitored by the NDGF Dept? Really? Who in the Dept. does that?

Also, there MAY be clauses in the wind contracts that apply to landowner responsibility should someone shoot a tower, etc. That would be a good thing to find out as it could directly lead to more posted land. Landowners may not want to bear that liability.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I have seen game and fish and the epa out on sites doing inspections. I didn't take names or badge numbers. Actually I think they were biologists or something. They were checking for spills, wetland damage, garbage, and wildlife harm.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

The lease money must be pretty good. We have noticed that many farmers are dozing shelter belts in order to make the land easier to farm with big equipment. Now they are allowing the installation of towers which basically cause the same or worse problems than the belts supposedly did. ?????????????

Make perfect sense!!!!!!!


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## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

Here are the legislative minutes from an interim meeting held in Valley City by the Energy Development and Trasmission Committee.

http://www.legis.nd.gov/assembly/61-200 ... inutes.pdf

I really am amazed at resident hunters of ND total lack of committment to studying this issue. It will cripple hunting in some parts of ND. Oh, no big deal but talk about giving NR's a few extra hunting days on their license and the hearing room is packed with naysayers.

Time to wake up.

The PSC says 5000 megawatts of wind development is in the que.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

I don't think that waking up or attempting to protest is going to get you anywhere. Too much money involved. I have heard, emphasis on heard, that wind farms are paying for themselves in a matter of a few years. Arguing about subsidies is completely invalid also, how much money has our nation spent protecting our oil interests and so called friends in the middle east? You could build a heck of a lot of wind turbines for what it costs to run one carrier group in the Persian Gulf.



> Oh, no big deal but talk about giving NR's a few extra hunting days on their license and the hearing room is packed with naysayers.


you had to go there didn't you. :eyeroll:

What I have an issue with is where is PF, DU, and Delta on this? Why are they not pushing for more info and trying to get some answers. Heck the least they could do is get FPL to build a couple of sloughs. It is a shame to see these towers go in where the hunting is so good.


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## Dakota Kid (Aug 17, 2002)

New 10-Year Plan for North Dakota's Economic Future Being Developed (Department of Commerce)

by Prairiebizmag.com

Posted on 11/16/2009

A new 10-year plan for the North Dakota's economic future is in the works - and it includes emphasis on new business and attracting and retaining workers.

The Economic Development Foundation worked on the plan Friday in Jamestown.

"They serve as a private sector advisory board to the Department of Commerce," said Shane Goettle, commissioner of the North Dakota Department of Commerce. "They are now looking out over the next 10 years to develop a new plan."

Goettle said the existing plan was finalized in 2002 and was envisioned to carry the department through 2010.

"We've had five targeted industries," he said. "Value-added agriculture, energy, tourism, advanced manufacturing and technology-based businesses. We want to maintain the focus on those things but also focus on new industries."

Goettle said the priorities of the existing plan have served the state well.

"North Dakota is going to be a leading energy state," he said. "Not just in fossil fuels but in renewable energy. In some cases agriculture and energy are working together to produce great things."

And while energy and agriculture are doing well now, some of North Dakota's manufacturing businesses are struggling.

"Our manufascturers are very stressed," Goettle said. "It shows we are not immune from the recession."

Goettle also said tourism has been affected by high gas prices and the economic downturn.

Some of the new industries the Department of Commerce hopes to see expand include vaccine development and manufacturing and unmanned aerial vehicles.

But along with a concentration on growth of industries Goettle said the plan needs to look at the things needed to make that expansion happen.

"There will be a lot more emphasis on work force retention and expansion," he said. "And we want to support entrepreneurs and innovation."

Supporting entrepreneurs may be a challenge in North Dakota.

"North Dakota has a culture of being adverse to risks and entrepreneurs," said Rod Backman, a consultant with Covenant Consultants of Bismarck hired by the Economic Development Foundation. "We want to overcome that and help people with good ideas succeed as a business."

Backman also saw the need to increase the work force in North Dakota.

"We need to focus on the growth and work force development," he said. "The old business plan focused more on business development. We need to have the workers with the right skills."

Goettle agreed that increasing the work force was an important, and sometimes difficult, task.

"Work force development is a challenge," he said. "We need to retain youth, train people and attract people from outside the border. We should be able to do that because people will move towards opportunities."

And Goettle believes improvements in the work force will help not only the business sector but the employees around North Dakota.

"The good news is our wage rate has climbed," he said. "North Dakota has made steps to catch up to the rest of the nation in wages. But it is not just wages that will draw people, it is the opportunities we offer in and out of the workplace that will bring people."

The Economic Development Foundation meets quarterly to review the status of business in North Dakota. It will complete its new 10-year plan by the first or second quarter of 2010.


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## doubledown (Jun 18, 2009)

I personally have first hand experience on these type of issues, as I am a transmission engineer. As an avid outdoorsman and a love for nature since the day I was born, it is tough to accept the concept of altering the natural landscape in order to improve the energy grid. The truth is that as the population grows the demand for energy inevitably increases. I peronally do not believe that energy by wind generation is the solution to the increased demand. I do know that the production of energy from these towers is signifcant enough that federal and private fundings have developed much interest, and in return provide work for my company. On a personal experience while recently hunting ND the eye sore of seeing 100+ towers within a 5 mile radius of land use to be great hunting made me sad. On a transmission note I can tell you that 90% of my designs are improvments to existing lines, therefore not disturbing previously undisturbed habitat. I can also tell you that each mile of proposed new transmission line and rebuild line is reported, reviewed, and approved by the environmental agency of the state. Does this mean they are always correct in there decisions? I believe not, but this is where my personal opinion and passion for the outdoors and my choice of work have conflicts. There is a lot of money involved to improve development and energy needs, especially with the uncertain petroleum resources with our "friends" in the mid east. This is just my opinion based on the experience that I have.


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## TK33 (Aug 12, 2008)

So which would you say would be easier on wildlife, wind towers or nukes?


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