# GSP Puppy Training question



## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

Fellas,

I have a 4 month old GSP that I am having some issues with potty training. She fully understands that outside is the place to go because she will stand by the door and once outside she imediatly goes. Where the problem lies is she seems to "dribble" 6-12 drops when she gets excited or when going up and down the steps and sometimes for unkown reasons. Today she did it about 15 secs after being let outside to do the duty. We let her in she ran into the living room and then we noticed the 1' long trail of dribbles.

She has picked up every other training very very well. Sit, Stay, Come, Heal, retrieves and gives but she just can't stop this dribbling thing. Do you think she might have a urinary tract infection??? SHould I take her to the vet. She never has left a big puddle anywhere in the house its just these dribbles which suck becuase you don't always see them happen and you can only see them if you are crawling around onyour hands and knees.

She doesn't even squat when it happens either. It is almost like she doesn't know she is doing it. Any help would be great. Thanks


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Has she been spayed?


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## Jungda99 (Nov 17, 2006)

she has not been spayed but from what I have heard is you should wait till they are 6 months old????

I could be wrong but i think that is what I have heard


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

Thats normal puppy excitement and lack of control and nothing to worry about.

Instead of just letting her out go with her and take her for a little walk until she goes several times and it probably will cease.

If you just let them out for a few minutes until they pee once they will not fully void their baldder.

Wait till your in your fifties and you will be able to relate :lol:


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## gonehuntin' (Jul 27, 2006)

Like a child, it takes them different lengths of time to get full control of their muscles. She'll get better and pretty soon at that.


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

The reason I was asking about spaying is that it leads to incontinence in about 30% of the dogs.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

I've owned at least thirty dogs in my life that were spayed and none of them were incontinent until they were very old so I don't think that is right.
I have 5 at my feet right now 4 of which are 11 years old, none are incontinent, yet anyway :wink:


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Bob,

I had never heard of this before we got our last dog spayed. Of course, she is a bit of a problem child health wise. Our vet was not at all surprised that she was incontinent after spaying. Here is a article that talks about it a bit. Can't find the ones that gave the 30% tag right now. Our dog responded immediately to treatment.

The information in this section is based on an article by Stanley I. Rubin, DVM, MS, Diplomate ACVIM, entitled, "Diagnosis and Management of Urinary Incontinence".

Urinary incontinence refers to the loss of voluntary control of urination. The animal may leave a pool of urine where it has been lying (without any noticeable effort to urinate having been observed) or may dribble urine while it is walking. Normal urination is comprised of two phases, storage and emptying. These phases are controlled by the bladder neck and proximal urethra, and all levels of the nervous system are involved as well.

Urine storage takes place when the bladder relaxes and the internal urethral sphincter stays closed. The urethra, or the canal extending from the bladder to the outside of the body, has an internal and an external sphincter. Sphincters are circular muscles that constrict a passage or close a natural orifice.

The urine stays stored as long as pressure within the urethra is greater than the pressure within the bladder. Emptying of urine occurs when contraction of the bladder muscle is coordinated with sphincter relaxation.

There are a number of disease processes which can result in involuntary loss of urine. These include neurologic dysfunction, alterations in bladder and urethral tone, chronic diseases of the bladder or urethra (such as cancer), obstruction, disease of the prostate gland, as a secondary outcome to a spay or neuter, and congenital (present at birth) anatomic abnormalities such as ureters (tubes connecting kidneys and the bladder) not located in the normal place.

Your veterinarian will want to determine the cause as to why the animal has become incontinent. There should be a careful history-taking, physical examination, neurologic examination, observation of the dog's voiding pattern (which could include feeling the bladder and possible insertion of a catheter to determine how much urine remains in the bladder after voiding has occurred), laboratory examinations (urinalysis and possible blood work), and possibly x-rays.

There are some medications which may be used for management of incontinence, but medication would be prescribed only after anatomic abnormalities of the urinary tract, urinary tract infection, paradoxic obstructive incontinence, and other primary treatable underlying diseases have been ruled out as possible causes.

In addition to adrenergic receptors (which affect function through neurotransmitters), the urethral sphincter has receptors for the reproductive hormones estrogen and testosterone. Incontinence associated with neutering may be in part related to decreased receptor stimulation from these hormones. It is an unproven hypothesis that animals may have had marginal urethral function before neutering.

*****es which have been spayed are fairly commonly affected by estrogen-responsive incontinence. Middle-aged to older female dogs are most prone to incontinence. Estrogen replacement, or diethylstilbestrol given orally, is the drug of choice for hormone replacement in *****es. The exact mechanism of action is not known, but estrogens may increase internal sphincter sensitivity. The drug is given at a dosage of 0.1 to 1.0 mg daily for 5 days, then weekly or less often (i.e. every 10 to 14 days) as necessary to maintain continence. The lowest and most infrequent dose which is effective should be chosen. Occasional animals will require more frequent doses (i.e. twice weekly) or higher doses (i.e. > 1.0 mg) to maintain continence. Side effects are uncommon at the low dosages usually necessary for control. Signs of estrus have been reported, in addition to bone marrow suppression. Aplastic anemia is also a potential side effect, however, it is unlikely with the low-dose regimen.

Dogs may be affected by hormone-responsive incontinence after neutering as well, though this occurs less commonly than in neutered *****es. Testosterone is usually administered intramuscularly. Testosterone propionate at a dose of 2.2 mg/kg is usually effective, but may need to be administered as often as three times a week. Testosterone cypionate is more convenient because it is effective at a dosage of 2.2 mg/kg every 30 days. Because of rapid degradation by the liver, oral testosterone is often ineffective, unless high doses are used. Testosterone administration is not without its downside, and may aggravate or cause the recurrence of problems which were previously testosterone-related, such as prostatic disease, perineal hernia and perianal adenoma. Behavioural changes can also occur, such as inappropriate urination, aggression, etc.

Other medications which may be used are prescribed as alpha-adrenergic agonists, which stimulate the receptors (directly or indirectly) in the urethra, resulting in increased resting urethral tone. All the drugs in this class must be given continuously to be effective, although the dose may be prescribed to the lowest and least frequent necessary to maintain control. Side effects of these drugs include Central Nervous System (CNS) stimulation (e.g. anxiety, restlessness), hypertension, urinary retention and changes to cardiac rhythms. These drugs are ephedrine, phenylpropanolamine, and pseudoephedrine.

Ephedrine has been shown to increase urethral closure pressure throughout the entire urethral length in people. It is effective in improving urinary incontinence related to decreased urethral resistance. It is supplied in 25 and 50 mg tablets, though the recommended maximum dose is 4 mg/kg (for an 8 kg, or 17.6 lb Cavalier, that translates to 32 kg total in a day).

Phenylpropanolamine functions in a similar manner to ephedrine, and seems to cause less CNS stimulation. Pseudoephedrine also has fewer CNS stimulating actions than ephedrine, and the usual dose is 15 to 30 mg two - three times a day. The animal is usually started on a lower dose, which may be increased if there is no clinical response.

Cheers and enjoy Super Sunday :beer:


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

> Middle-aged to older female dogs are most prone to incontinence


That part doesn't suprise me but I am suprised it happens to pups or real young dogs.

I learn something new every day I guess.

I still would like to read the article about 30% of them that seems real high unless your talking real old dogs, I've had a few get incontinent towards the end of life.

I guess we start in diapers and end in them :lol:


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## Dak (Feb 28, 2005)

Bob,

You got that right. I will keep looking for the 30% article and send along when I find it.


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