# What caliber would you use for hogs.



## Azian

I was just reading an article online about a man who was hog hunting in florida with his .40 and was completely dissapointed with the performance of his bullets that he was using. He said one didn't expand and others just came apart. Is it really the ammo that he was using or was it the caliber he was using that would affect this. I'm new to the sport of handun hunting this year so I just wanna learn a little more on what calibers to use for each different size game.


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## Camo

Use a 454 Casull with a nice hollowpoint. Not exactly sporting but it gets the job done.


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## wyocarp

I would say caliber and bullet was the problem. That gun isn't made for hunting. At least not hunting anything that has more than two legs and even for that, it is a watered down 10mm. With so many good handguns made that would be good for hunting, why use a weapon made for self defense?


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## Remington 7400

i wouldn't feel undergunned with a .45 ACP if I had it loaded with 200 grain Hornady XTP, or 230 grain Federal Hydra Shoks. All of that being said, unless you are an extremely good shot(like I am :lol: ) with a semi-auto, you should probably stick with a good .357 or .44 mag revolver.
:sniper:


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## Bore.224

How big are the hogs in florida? If you are talking about 350lb boar yeah 44 mag .


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

I talked to 500 S&W owner that said he hunted hogs for years and he thought the 500 mag with the 275gr Barnes X was the best thing he's ever used.


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## People

One thing when you are using HP ammo you have to be concerned about is this. If the open tip plugs up the bullet will not open. Then some times they do just explode like in this case. If you wanted to use a 40 S&W I would use a heavy hard cast bullet. This will give you plenty of penetration. Granted do not use lead bullets in a polygonal BBL as these squeeze the bullet and leads to excessive leading(Glock). If you are lucky like I am your gun will shoot both kinds of ammo the same. 
The reason someone may want to use the 40 is this. They already have the gun and why buy a different one.


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## wyocarp

People said:


> The reason someone may want to use the 40 is this. They already have the gun and why buy a different one.


The reason to buy another is that a .40 isn't for hunting. It is designed for self defense and the loads are largely for that as well. The person starting this thread was asking why someone had problems hunting with the .40 and the reason is that it isn't made for hunting. It was made for wimp wristed officers that couldn't handle a 10mm.


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## Gohon

> It was made for wimp wristed officers that couldn't handle a 10mm


That's bull****. :eyeroll:


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## People

The reason the 10mm was made was because the FBI was in some shootouts and the 9;s they were carrying were not penetrating car doors. So they went on a quest and the 10mm was made. What was happening was the 10mm was so powerful that it was shooting threw both sides of the car and endangering other people. So they thought about downloading some ammo and S&W released the downloaded round as the 40S&W. Since it could fit in a standard 9mm frame it was a logical choice. The FBI still uses the MP5/10 for its "SWAT" team. I do not remember what the actual name that they call it.

Granted the 40 is made for self defense but if you have it there is no reason to buy a new hand gun to allow you to shoot critters. Granted that is a good reason if you have the 500 to 800 or more for a new handgun but lets face it most do not. You are right about his poor bullet choice but with the right ammo it can easily take pigs. As long as you do your part. Where have I heard that before?


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## wyocarp

People said:


> The reason the 10mm was made was because the FBI was in some shootouts and the 9;s they were carrying were not penetrating car doors. So they went on a quest and the 10mm was made. What was happening was the 10mm was so powerful that it was shooting threw both sides of the car and endangering other people. So they thought about downloading some ammo and S&W released the downloaded round as the 40S&W.


Sorry, that isn't the story. The story I've always heard is that the recoil was too much for many of them that didn't spend the time shooting that they needed to be proficient with shooting the 10mm.

And yes, I think it is worth spending the money to do something right. I've witnessed and heard of too many guys shooting animals with guns that weren't sufficient for the animal they were shooting and they weren't good shots either and so wounded animals abound during hunting season. It is sickening to see the numbers of animals running around with two or three good legs because hunters haven't spent the time and money to prepare themselves for hunting.

As I said before, the person that started this thread was asking for advice about what made the .40 fail for hunting and it is because of the available loads/bullets generally available for that caliber.


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## People

I guess we will have to find the FBI documentation on the reason they went to the 40 instead of the 10. There are three sides to every story the person it happened to the person who did and the truth. For us it is the documentation we need to find.

After a little looking I guess you are right about the recoil wrong about the "wimp wristed" officers.

Any ways a little info about cops shooting. I wanted to try some loads out and the range was being used by the cops for some qualifications. Seriously cops should be able to shoot better than that. This persons pattern from 25 yds looked like they used a shotgun with buck shot. Granted I am sure some of them can shoot better than what I seen but I can do better than that with my eyes closed. I am also not that great of a shot with a handgun


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## TN.Frank

People has the right idea. You need penetration, something that a hollow point just won't have. That's why a good cast bullet will work better, it'll hold together and get into the vitals where it'll do more damage. I think a 10mm is ok for Hogs but I'm not sure I'd want to use a 40 short n' weak on one. A .357Mag would work with a good 170-180gr bullet but no matter what you use you still have to place the shot. A big gun will never make up for sloppy shooting.


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## Azian

When I first started this thread I was just wondering why a writer for a magazine would shoot a .40 at hogs. To me it just doesn't seem like a good hunting weapon. He complained about penetration and was blaming it on the rounds he was shooting, but I figured it was mainly because he was using an insufficient weapon for the job at hand. Since he writes for a hutning magazine I would assume that he does have the necassary equipment needed for hunting so why not use it. I've read many articles about how these semi auto's won't even work that well for self defense unless the right load is used so why chance it with an animal that can tear you apart. I have a .45 ACP and have all the confidence in the world that it can humanely kill a deer out to about 25 yards, but I have refrained from using it for fear that something could go wrong. I was just wondering if people could enlighten me on how well they thought a .40 would perform in this type of situation so I could have a better understanding to why the auhor of the article made his choice on this firearm for the hunt and also why he would automaticly assume the problem he was having was from his loads and not his caliber. My wifes uncle has a ranch hand that used a 9mm to shoot a mountain lion that was tree'd. He said they faound almost all of the rounds still in the cats hide or just under. I know that the 9mm is completely different from the .40, but I would assume that a hog also has a thick hide in comparison. It just doesn't seem to me that most semi-auto handguns would have enough energy for taking an animal like a hog. There have been some interesting discussions in the thread however and I have found all of it useful.


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## Scott Greaves

A fairly stout 45lc or 44mag with a 300gr hard cast bullet will take care of the biggest boar - you can find. Need to be in the 11/1300fps range. I am going to test a 950/1000fps load next week on the russian stain boars. I anchored one at 35 yds with a 1300fps Buffalo bore load a couple of weeks ago, with a 45 colt Blackhawk. The +p+ loads are painful in a blackhawk. The boar weighted 283# and had 4.5" tusk.


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## Whelen35

Everything that I khave read or heard when talking hogs has been big is good, and placement is the key. In handguns, if someone said to me, lets go hoggen, I would likely pick a 44mag loaded up with 300gr softpoints if I could find them or had some loaded up. If single shot pistol, then a TC in 45-70 loaded up with a speer 400gr bullet would get the nod. A good hardcast bullet would work in the 44 or a 45lc, but placement is more of a factor then. Unless you have some practical cast bullet hunting under your belt, stick to softpoint bullets, and hollow points have to be shoosen well to pick one that performs well on game. For me, the 41 mag would be about the smallest that I would use for big game hunting. Then from there on up it is what ever you can shoot well enough for hunting. Overy large does not makeup for poor shooting. The thing to remember about handgun hunting is that no matter what you use you are delivering less power and in most cases some accuracy and steadyness in shooting platform. Therefore, one has to be shure of their shots, use the best performing bullets, and only take the shots that will result in cleanly taken game. Too me, the people that like to see how small of a "gun" they can use and still kill the game is not me cup of tea. I would rather brag about how small the distance traveled by the shot game than how small the payload used to take the game. Too each their own.


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## Gohon

One of the main reasons a hard hitting or large caliber is needed for hogs is because of where their vitals are located which is directly behind the front shoulder. You need something that will drive through that shoulder into the vital area or just above the shoulder for the spine. To often a shooter shoots where he/she would shoot a deer and that won't work.


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## Burnout

actually,
the reason the 10mm didnt make it is because the first firearm designed to shoot it was far too complex and thus lead to problems, then colt came out with the Delta series in 10mm, this worked to some extent, as with the previous handgun design the load had to be cooled down to prevent the guiderods from breaking. I think the delta elites stopped being made in 97, not sure.

Bottom line is no, its not that the officers were bothered by the recoil, though some may have been, it came down to design, and cost.

D


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## wyocarp

burnout, I'm not so sure about your "actually," but if that is your opinion then that works for you but what seems to be given as the reason in items that I have read is that the change was made to the .40 to lessen the recoil.


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## Burnout

well this is from what ive read..
the load was too hot, creating large amounts of recoil, which caused the parts in the gun to break, which is why they cooled the load down.

like i said, im sure there were plenty of people whom complained about the recoil in terms of shooting, but the info that was available to me said it was largley due to breakage and cost.

you may be right, on the reason they switched to the .40,just relating the facts ive gotten on why the 10mm was so problematic thus not being a good candidate, due to strength of the firearm, or lack of it.

I aslo just watched a show a few days ago on outdoors channel, that verified some of it, though they didnt get into much detail

im gonna find out more, interesting topic.

Be safe
Dave.


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## Bore.224

Azian said:


> When I first started this thread I was just wondering why a writer for a magazine would shoot a .40 at hogs. To me it just doesn't seem like a good hunting weapon. He complained about penetration and was blaming it on the rounds he was shooting, but I figured it was mainly because he was using an insufficient weapon for the job at hand. Since he writes for a hutning magazine I would assume that he does have the necassary equipment needed for hunting so why not use it. I've read many articles about how these semi auto's won't even work that well for self defense unless the right load is used so why chance it with an animal that can tear you apart. I have a .45 ACP and have all the confidence in the world that it can humanely kill a deer out to about 25 yards, but I have refrained from using it for fear that something could go wrong. I was just wondering if people could enlighten me on how well they thought a .40 would perform in this type of situation so I could have a better understanding to why the auhor of the article made his choice on this firearm for the hunt and also why he would automaticly assume the problem he was having was from his loads and not his caliber. My wifes uncle has a ranch hand that used a 9mm to shoot a mountain lion that was tree'd. He said they faound almost all of the rounds still in the cats hide or just under. I know that the 9mm is completely different from the .40, but I would assume that a hog also has a thick hide in comparison. It just doesn't seem to me that most semi-auto handguns would have enough energy for taking an animal like a hog. There have been some interesting discussions in the thread however and I have found all of it useful.


I have heard stories of puma being taken with a 22lr, do you mean all 9mm bullets on the far side of the hide?
Furthermore lots of people entering law enforcement are not gun people and they may find the 10mm more difficult to get used to than the 40 S&W. Why not just use a 44 mag for law enforcement??


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## Azian

when I said he found most of the bullets under the hide I meant the entrance side. I'm not saying the 9mm is a bad cartridge. I just bought a 9mm Glock 26 for my wife. I'm just saying that I wouldn't use it for hunting, especially for animals that bite back. I never made a comment about using a 9mm for law enforcement or any other personal protection.


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## Bore.224

Azian, sorry I was aiming that 10mm/44mag statment to the whole thread in general. 
If the cougar shot with the 9mm had the bullets just under the skin of the entrance side how did it die?


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## Azian

He said (most) of the bullets so I'm assuming that at least one of them penetrated deeper. I don't see why he would need to make more then one shot if the initial bullet went beyond the hide.


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## Bore.224

Alllrigghtty then!!


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## gooseboy

Wyocarp those "WIMP OFFICERS" risk there lives every day for this country and our freedom so i ask that you respect them.


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## Remington 7400

> Wyocarp those "WIMP OFFICERS" risk there lives every day for this country and our freedom so i ask that you respect them.


I do respect them. However, by the same token i also exepect them to be proficient enough with a handgun to defend themselves and our country.

I am a firm believer that officers should be able to handle handguns in the 10mm/.45 ACP recoil range. If they can't they really should look into a desk job within the department. Because lets face it. With todays crop of terrorists, and criminals. 9mm and .40 Short & Weak just dosen't cut it.

Besides, .45 ACP and 10 mm recoil isn't anything compared to stout .44 mag hunting loads. And I know women who have killed deer with .44 mag handguns.


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## Dave_w

The problem is that there are cops who know guns and there are cops that don't. That, and the training regmimens are all screwed up these days, mostly because everyone's high on the automatic fad. Me, I maybe know some things about law enforcement and shooting, let me explain.

Back in the day, the majority of police recruits were ex-army and -marines coming out of Korea and Vietnam. They knew how to maintain a service weapon, how to shoot, and they knew the value of practice and marksmanship. And they did alright; even with the Black Panthers gunning for them half the time, they did okay.

Fast forward to present. The old criminal theory is out, the new one is in. Instead of being "reactive" (catching the criminals) the police force is supposed to spend a good deal of its time being "proactive" (preventing the crime in the first place). And no, that doesn't just mean more patrols and deterrence. It means all kinds of touchey-feeley nonsense, which, I'll admit, does make a difference. But I don't wanna do it.

The role of the police has changed, so has the kind of person police forces recruit. Instead of seeking veterans, they're looking for college-educated folks. Now, I'm a college student, and I know of only one other guy at my school that shoots, and he's ex-army (ordinance disposal). All the vets have, by now, either retired or have moved into management positions where they're Chief of Whatever. Unfortunately, everyone below them stands a good chance of having never seen a gun before their first basic marksmanship class at the academy.

That's not to say that the young guys don't know jack, it's just that a lot of them don't have any pre-existing experience with firearms.

To make matters worse, all kinds of federal laws now exist which prevent agencies from placing certain physical requirements on recruits. Like height, weight, so on and so forth.

And as if all that were bad enough, everyone jumped on board the automatics craze and abandoned marksmanship. Training became about putting rounds downrange and aiming for the center mass instead of the ability to place carefully-aimed shots under stress. Even less training time is spent on tactical movement and using cover. This weakness was most apparent in the North Hollywood Bank shootout. All those guys had were vests. But because officers were trained to blast away at the center mass, and point instead of aim, people died. It shouldn't have been about matching the robbers' firepower (they were equipped with fully-automatic AK47s), it should have been about negating that advantage through tactical movement and good shooting. Vests don't do much when you get shot in the head or legs. An automatic allows you to blast away and encourages you to squeeze the trigger instead of taking the time to aim, while a revolver forces you to place your shots carefully. Yeah, pistols have plenty of advantages, and are certainly accurate, but without proper training, they just lead to random peppering.

To be frank, there was no easy way out of North Hollywood. Engage at range and the AK has the advantage. Get in close and you risk getting cut to pieces by a spray of automatic fire. If I had to take my pick, with the way those guys were shooting, I would have gone at range and tried for the h/s.

Oh, and the shootout referenced before about the 9mm not penetrating car doors was that one in Florida where two agents were killed. That was a tactical error on the part of the AIC, who decided to stop a car with two heavily-armed bank robbers they were supposed to be following. They PIT'd the car, screwed up, and had a nasty firefight on the side of a road at point-blank range. Once again, that wasn't about firepower (even the FBI said that). This time, it was about a stupid decision.

So yeah...enough with the bleedin limp-wrist nonsense. I've got a 9mm that kicks harder and jumps higher than any .45 I've ever shot. Caliber's not the be all and end all of recoil. And on that whole stopping-power-of-a-9mm thing, Remington, you know I love ya, but give it a rest. I'd rather hit him solidly with two or three 9mms than one .45. He's not gonna drop dead just cuz he got hit with a bleedin 1911. And I really doubt that the "current crop" is any better armed than the Black Panthers were. Hell, they had a building in the city where I used to live fortified with sandbagged machineguns, M60s and Browning air-cooled suckers. They were convinced the cops were gonna raid the place, and everyone's damn lucky they didn't. Panthers had machineguns, but the cops had specialized shotguns loaded with slug rounds designed to punch through six inches of stone.


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## Longshot

Remington 7400

The more I hear you say, ".40 Short & Weak just doesn't cut it", the more I believe you really don't know what you're talking about. Maybe you should do a little research. The 45acp is at the top of the list for me and am partial to it also, but I wouldn't make such a stupid comment. I'm beginning to believe you're just looking to stir the pot.


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## Burly1

Careful Longshot, you wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings. 7400 just chooses to look at things through a .451" tunnel! Good shooting, whatever the cartridge, Burl


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## Dave_w

lol Burl. My only objection to the .45 crowd is...ya'll ever been hit with a 9mm? No? Neither have I, but I bet it hurts like a b1tch. Carry what makes ya happy, and if ya think ya need a .45, fine. Me, I'm pretty sure I can put enough 9mm where it counts to get by.

Granted, I spend the rest of my range time slinging .308s and 12-ga shells, plus a little .338 Lapua Mag from a very lucky friend's Tikka TRG 42, but...


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## toolbox

.45 cal - Love

10mm - Love it a lot


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## natemil373

.40 Short and Weak=500ft lbs out of 5in barrel 1911 platform with OTC loads available
.45 ACP Name one load that generate 500ft lbs.

Heck, even the pathetic 9mm will get close to 500ft lbs with hot +p+ loads out of a 5in barrel

ACP=Ancient Crap Pistol
Always Common and Passive
Actually Can't Perform

There you go Rem7400 :stirpot:

In all honesty, I like the .45ACP. But, I wouldn't trade a 19 shot 9mm for 8 or 9 shots of .45ACP any day of the week in a tight position.


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## Remington 7400

> .40 Short and Weak=500ft lbs out of 5in barrel 1911 platform with OTC loads available
> .45 ACP Name one load that generate 500ft lbs.


You ever hear of a company named COR-BON?

.40 S&W

.40 Short & Weak
.40 Shoot & Wish (that you had a .45)
.40 Small & Wimpy

There you go natemil373 :stirpot:


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## Burly1

Now this looks like good hog medecine!
http://www.guncrafterindustries.com/
Now if I can just find that three large I had laying around. 8) Burl


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## Bore.224

[Now if I can just find that three large I had laying around. 8) Burl[/quote]

Yeah I got the same problem :lol: Is any hangun worth that much?? do you think the .50 GI will make it to the mainstream of cartridges?


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## Burly1

No. But if they put it in a handgun for a grand or less, you just never know. Burl


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## bighands

I haven't hunted hogs, But I have killed at least 40 Deer and Antelope with handguns (.357Mag, 44Mag, 454Casull and 30Herret) after seeing what kind of wound channel and the penetration you get from a Handgun, I would suggest a .44Mag. or bigger with heavy hard cast or flat nosed jacketed bullets (not hollow points) for Hogs. Hogs are bigger and tougher than deer and a 240gr Hollow Point in a .44Mag barely has enough penetration for Deer.


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## Remington 7400

> a 240gr Hollow Point in a .44Mag barely has enough penetration for Deer.


I know a few deer, a coyote, and a black bear that would disagree with that!


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## bighands

Remington 7400:
The animals I shot with those 240gr. Hollow Points aren't around anymore to say one way or another if they agree or not. So I'd say those bullets are good enough for deer size game, But I'd be hesitant to try them on anything bigger or tougher.


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## kw5kw

People said:


> ...Granted the 40 is made for self defense but if you have it there is no reason to buy a new hand gun to allow you to shoot critters. Granted that is a good reason if you have the 500 to 800 or more for a new handgun but lets face it most do not. You are right about his poor bullet choice but with the right ammo it can easily take pigs. As long as you do your part. Where have I heard that before?


I for one, do not have 'disposable income' that I can just go out and flop down $1,000.00 for a .50.


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## People

kw5kw 
Most of us do not have that extra cash laying around to buy that new gun but if you are going hunting I bet you have enough cash to buy a box or two of ammo that is right for the job at hand.

I also do not have the cash to just flop out for a .50 

If Chuck Norris is late. Time better slow the heck down.


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## Bore.224

The .50 S&W is amazing but if I felt I needed that much power I would go for a rifle. How about a quick handling lever gun in .444 marlin!!


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## caribukiller

magnum reasearch bfr in 45-70 government


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## Alaskan Brown Bear Killer

caribukiller said:


> magnum reasearch bfr in 45-70 government


For the same price get the 500 S&W it performs way better than the 45-70
http://www.magnumresearch.com/Browse.as ... :Revolvers


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## caribukiller

how about a sawed of single shot or side by side 12 ga. with the butt cut off so it just has a pistol grip. that should work pretty good if your up close or a tc encore pistol in .30-06 with a scope for longer shots.


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## Chestnut

Alaskan Brown Bear Killer said:


> For the same price get the 500 S&W it performs way better than the 45-70


Yeah, but think how cool it'd be to walk onto a range and load up those HUGE shells while everyone is staring at you! And just imagine the muzzle flash! By the way, is that thing SASS leagal?


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## clampdaddy

I'd say to start at the 41 mag, anything from there on up will do nicely.


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