# coyotes just wont come in



## hamma time (Sep 29, 2006)

Yesterday i went out and set up on a slew and i was on a rock pile and i started to call and i noticed 3 coyotes come over a hill about 300-350 and they sat there for a minute or two and then they turned back around and started walking in circles around a small slew. I threw different sounds at them includeing distress/howls and they would just look for my way and then continue with there own bussiness. I am wondering if you guys would take this shot wind was about 11 mph. A couple other days over christmas break i have had the same thing happen coyotes come and hang up about 200-350 yards and wondering if this is wat most of you guys have or do you get them within 100 yrds. I am pretty confindent shooting deer out to 350 but a coyote im not so sure.


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## ODB (Nov 30, 2008)

I've been having the same problem. I don't want to educate them anymore they are already way smarter than me. There is big difference between 250 and 350. 250 is very doable. A range finder is a great tool. It works best to range a few points before you start calling. I have passed on dogs then ranged it and found they were closer than I thought. Good Luck


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

350 yards with a 11 mph wind means a dead dog. Practice and be proficient enough with your weapon to kill out to 400.

250 is a chipshot.


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## nosib (Dec 4, 2008)

barebackjack said:


> 350 yards with a 11 mph wind means a dead dog. Practice and be proficient enough with your weapon to kill out to 400.
> 
> 250 is a chipshot.


agreed


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## R Buker (Oct 29, 2005)

nosib said:


> barebackjack said:
> 
> 
> > 350 yards with a 11 mph wind means a dead dog. Practice and be proficient enough with your weapon to kill out to 400.
> ...


There's a lot of air around a coyote at 350 yards. Add that wind you are talking about into the mix and I'm guessing most average folks would end up missing that coyote. Anyone who thinks every 350 yard coyote should be dead is either an awesome shot, a delusional blowhard or someone who's just full of BS and doesn't really hunt coyotes. I'm not pointing fingers but I find that statement to be just a bit inflated...

Also, there's no reason to have to take many of those long shot. Work on your stand selection and calling ability and call 'em into decent range.

250 yards is stretching most people's shooting abilities. Trust me, I've missed plenty of coyotes at 250 yards.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Youve missed em at 250 yards! Pfffft, ive missed em a heck of alot closer than that! :lol:

Just saying, IF you know your rifle, and have spent a good amount of trigger time behind it, 350 yards with a 10 mph wind, on a broadside, stationary animal is a VERY doable shot.

That is, unless its a .17 or something. (I was gonna say .204 but didnt want to start that all over again :lol: ).

And I agree with the getting em in close. Heck, id shoot em all with the shotgun if I could, but thats just not in the cards. Around here, there are areas that get so much pressure that your lucky to get em to respond AT ALL come mid december, let alone get em in close.

Practice practice practice. I was lucky, we had a TON of jackrabbits once upon a time, made me a MUCH better shot than I once was. Although now, I think I may be leading coyotes to much on the run after banging away at running jacks for a few years. :-?


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## ILcoyote_amateur (Dec 26, 2007)

I'd have to agree with BBJ (just not about the .204 :wink: ) on this one, any coyote I have a clean shot at under 300 yds should be dead. This means a standing dog and with my shooting sticks.

If you put in the trigger time, this shot should be doable every time. I suggest shooting at clay pigeons (same size as coyote vitals) against a dirt mound with a moderate wind at 300 yds. You'll be amazed how consistent you get. :sniper:

I've put several hundred rounds through my gun this way, practice like you hunt, in the cold with bipod or sticks. I'll even sit out for 20 minutes first to get the muscles cold.


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## giwoyna5 (Mar 5, 2008)

I can't get them SOB's to come any closer either. The closest my range finder told me so far is 315. Missed that sucker by millimeters too. (wind I think, plus chest shot, not broad side) They all come in hard and put on the brakes. Bust me every time. WTF 
I'm not giving up though....one of these days I'm gonna call one in and put a 243 in his arse! :sniper:


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## hamma time (Sep 29, 2006)

im gonna agree with Buker on this one id like to see the guys saying under 300 is a dead dog, i can see a deer but a coyotes about 3/4 smaller. I have enough power to get it that far (.270 haha overkill), I geuss ill go to the range and see


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## Bloodyblinddoors (Oct 25, 2006)

giwoyna5 said:


> I'm not giving up though....one of these days I'm gonna call one in and put a 243 in his arse! :sniper:


Thats the frikkin spirit!!


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## tigerdog (Jan 24, 2008)

I agree that for most hunters 300 yards is doable. However, although many claim that they can kill any coyote in that range, significantly fewer actually do so CONSISTENTLY. Practice, practice, practice! It can be done. I usually limit myself to 200 yards when calling. However, if I'm hunting with a partner and he shoots and misses (already educating the coyote), I may take a longer shot if I feel I have a good chance of a kill. I don't like being the one to educate a coyote. Also consider the ethics. Do you want to wound the animal instead of making a clean kill?


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

tigerdog said:


> However, if I'm hunting with a partner and he shoots and misses (already educating the coyote), I may take a longer shot if I feel I have a good chance of a kill. I don't like being the one to educate a coyote. Also consider the ethics. Do you want to wound the animal instead of making a clean kill?


That right there is WELL SPOKEN! :beer:

Knowing what YOUR limit is the biggest thing. For some its 300, some 400, I know some that cant shoot much past 100. And I know a few that are mighty dangerous out to a half mile with the right rifle.

For me, im very consistant out to 300 under MOST conditions, out to 400 under IDEAL conditions. If the winds howling 20-30 mph, than this range decreases. But, ive put ALOT of trigger time behind my main rifle.

Range time is great, but "real" practice cant be beat. Theres a big difference between the range and the real world. Cold hands, unknown ranges, bulky clothes, weird uncomfortable positions, and a live animal.

Practice practice practice, know YOUR rifle and YOUR limits.


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## R Buker (Oct 29, 2005)

"Doable" and "Dead every time" are two different things. My farthest shot on a red fox is 425 yards. He was sound asleep and I hit him low in his shoulder. He jumped up and started spinning and my partner said, "now you're screwed, you'll never hit him again." I shot again and he dropped like a rock. This was using my .17rem.

In this case, I knew EXACTLY how far away he was and I was using a fence post as a rest. The wind was dead calm. Yes, I knew my rifle and made the shot(s).

But, this fox is way different than sitting on my butt in the snow with a good breeze blowing across the prairie. The fox can come in from any direction in the world in a calling situation and I may have to twist and strain to make a shot. I'm tellin' ya, all bets are off. Two different things here. I still say that anyone who says every coyote is dead at 350 yards is not being straight up with us. Heck, I'd even go so far as to say that anyone who said they kill 90% of coyotes that hang up at 350 yards is not being straight up.

With that said, let me add that I kill about 90% of the critters I shoot at out there at 350 yards. But, I don't shoot at anything out there where I don't have a good rest or have a very good idea that I'll KILL the coyote. As mentioned above, I don't find it ethical to poke at anything you can see and then hope for the best.

Now, I don't know you boys who say you can do it regularly. So, I'm not calling you liars by any stretch. You may be awesome shots. Apparently I'm not.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

As per the original question, id say most of my shots are from 75-125 yards.

Ive shot at exactly 3 coyotes in the last two years over 400 yards, they all died. Do I shoot at EVERY target that stalls out at this range, heck no! If there is another option, I opt for that, but sometimes, your only option is to take the shot.

Ive also missed them at 60 yards. At least the one im admitting was "my" fault and not the rifles, at least thats my story, and im sticking to it. He was just TO CLOSE! :lol:


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## ODB (Nov 30, 2008)

If you can cosistently kill and I mean kill coyotes at 350 yds in 10 to 15mph wind you are one hell of a shot.


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## giwoyna5 (Mar 5, 2008)

:******: 
I tell ya I cannot for the life of me get those suckers within range. Went out last night and saw 3 in 5 sets. All came in to the howl call then everyone stopped between 350-400 yards. Once they stopped I howled one more time and they just sat there. Then I Tried a rabbit distress, fawn distress, bird, and nothing.......2 took off right away when changing calls, but one just sat there for what seemed like an hour. What do I do to get them closer? I know they didn't wind me cause it was blowing across betwen us. Don't think they saw me either cause I was dug in pretty good with some good cover. I love how challenging this is, but I am getting pretty frustrated.....


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

giwoyna5

Are you moving much? You may be hunkered down good but if you start moving, considering you are handcalling and they have the sound pinpointed, that movement may be causing them to put on the brakes. Try to be as still as possible.


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## giwoyna5 (Mar 5, 2008)

Well I have been using an elec. call, but maybe the movement of me glassing them with the binoculars could be the problem. I am completely whited out with camo and move very slowly. The first 2 I think may have busted me, but I really do not think the last one did. All that he could have seen is the top of my head and binocs. He never really concentrated on me either. Think he just knew something was just not right........EDUCATED!


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## giwoyna5 (Mar 5, 2008)

Couple things I'm gonna try are:
Getting a little closer to where I believe them to be comming from, thus cutting the range. 
Quit glassing and ranging so much and use my naked eye a little more, thus eliminating movement
Find a partner in crime to tag team these buggers!
:sniper:


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

A partner would be good to get them downwind. I try not to use my binocs until before I get up to leave. The regular eye can pick up a lot of movement i think.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Fallguy said:


> A partner would be good to get them downwind. I try not to use my binocs until before I get up to leave. The regular eye can pick up a lot of movement i think.


I agree.

If their coming in, you shouldnt be "glassing" them anyway, you should have them in the scope (or through the sights) watching them come and ready for the shot.

When I see a coyote, I immediately get in position and get the animal in the scope, I cover his approach through the scope keeping any big movements to when hes still a ways out. I dont not call again unless the animal seems to lose interest or stalls. And than I only use a low volume, short duration coax. Alot of times you can just pucker your lips and lip squeek them at this point.

Also, are you calling while their on approach? As long as their making progress towards your position, just shut up and let them come. If they stall out, use low, "coaxing" type sounds. Low volume, short duration. You could easily be overcalling (which is never good especially if theyve been called before) or you may be calling to loud when their at this range. Their ears are MUCH better than yours.

Not moving is key. Their eyes are much like ours, a predators eyes, trained to spot movement. And they do it much better than most humans. If your sitting still you can be wearing just about anything. But even with camo, or whites, to much movement will get you busted every time.


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## giwoyna5 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hey thanks fellas!
1. Quit glassing
2. Don't over call
3. Get ready for the shot immidiately.
Those suckers are TOAST tonight! :lol:


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## fishstuffer (Nov 29, 2006)

"Then I Tried a rabbit distress, fawn distress, bird, and nothing"

i think that gets them smart....

if they hang up theres a reason, maby dident like the rabbit,or seen something he dident like...
now they dont like no sound the e caller makes....

less calling makes them hunt for you a little..
if you can see them and call they will pin point you within a few yards (especially when stoped)

when i have used a e caller as soon as i seen a coyote coming i turned the volume down slowly lower and lower and sometimes that will make them come closer as they think the sound is coming from futher away.. (hard to do with a mouth call)

when howling that coyote is trying to see the other coyote that is in his territory and sometimes will stop to take a look... and howling again when hes close? might be able to see theres not a coyote making that noise..

also i think a very high% of coyotes responses is due to territortal things..
even the distress rabbit, that coyote is wondering why there is another coyote killing a rabbit in his or familys territory.. as they dont overlap..

i have made a 20 second distress call and stoped no more...(many times) then 10 mins later see a coyote a mile away hunting me.. and have them come right to me.. they knew exactly where that sound was coming from within 50 yards from a mile+ away..

i think the $29.00 do everything electric callers have made more coyotes smart than dead..


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## YoteSlapper (Mar 12, 2007)

"i think the $29.00 do everything electric callers have made more coyotes smart than dead.."

Along with all the high dollar e callers and videos and I might even suggest Internet chat forums.

Take those things away and I bet 90% of the people that call or I should say try to call predators today would have never tried the sport.

Don't get me wrong I use and enjoy every one of these things, but this sport is just not like so many of the videos make it seem.

JMHO

YoteSlapper


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## giwoyna5 (Mar 5, 2008)

Can't say I've been lured to the sport by the new "gadgets" or a video I watched. Although, I agree that is how a lot of people get into it. To each his own, either way we have something in common. 
Personally I do not watch any videos or tv shows on hunting or fishing. Think most project a poor image of the sports and why watch when I could be out doing it. Guilty of chatting on good 'ol NODAK outdoors tho. Why am I on here? To learn from more experienced folk. Some like to help out, some say nothing and some just...... oke:
Kudos to the first bunch.....

Edit
Didn't take anything as poking nor was I poking anyone. I appreciate any and all input!


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

giwonya5

That's fine if you don't like watching those videos, but I think you can learn a lot from watching them. For instance you are having a hard time with the coyotes hanging up on you. Watching repeatedly coyotes coming in to the call, on videos, allows a guy to study and pay attention to their body language. That is something I am always trying to learn more about!


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## giwoyna5 (Mar 5, 2008)

Agreed, I probably would learn a lot, but I just don't watch TV a whole lot or make time for movies. Guess I just never got into watching hunting videos. Any recommendations?
If I have time, which is rare (I have a youth hockey player) I go out. Read and interact on NODAK is how I gain my knowledge.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

I like the randy anderson, Verminator, or Coyote Doctors ones.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Watched a half-hour show on the Outdoor channel the other night and it left me wondering, are American coyotes that much dumber than Canadian dogs, or maybe us Canadian hunters give our coyotes too much credit.

On this show -- as in nearly every one of his shows -- the host of the show, a very capable yote hunter, got away with things we could never get away with up here.

Skylined? We try to avoid that at all costs but it doesn't seem to create a problem for his success, he still seems to call them in on every stand.

Avoiding sitting in the sun? Those yotes must like a visual target to aim for because he sure gives them one.

Face cover or camo? He doesn't seem to need one, must make it easier for the yotes to find him because he lights up like a Christmas tree.

Scent? Dab a little on a near by fence post or sage bush and it fools coyotes hands down. Either super-effective cover scent or else our Canadian coyotes' noses are a bunch more sensitive than the noses of the coyotes down south.

Keeping movement to an absolute, absolute minimum? That's what we try to do up here. For our host that additional movement he makes seems to be an additional enticer, just about like a squeaker, to pull coyotes in.

I don't doubt for a moment the host of the show is a hell of a nice guy and a hell of a fine coyote hunter to boot but it seems to me that anyone starting out and watching him to get a bunch of tips may end up terribly disappointed.

I understand why he does what he does (I'm in the media business myself) but when it comes to picking up usuable pointers his show and most videos aren't the best instructors. They give a very, very general overview and make it look like it's a damn sight easier than it really is.

I've learned more from some of the guys on this forum than I've learned from the bunch of videos I've bought over the years.

There are a group of guys here who know what they're talking about and it's them easy to point them out although I've noticed they aren't as active on this site as they were in the past.

These are the guys I've learned most of my lessons from. TV shows and videos? Well, it's good entertainment for sitting back and knocking back a beer but the information value doesn't quite cut it compared to what's available on this forum. Just my 2 cents.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Your basing what you saw on a hunting show with what us "real hunters" in the real world experience?

:rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin: :rollin:

Gotta remember, he was probably on a ranch that hasnt been hunted at all until he got there.

He was probably hunting in the breeding season. Most of the coyote videos are filmed in March when the huntings just a teeny tiny bit different.

And, its amazing the "editing" that goes on in those. The only thing "filmed" during the actual hunt is the shot, if that. The rest is all fluff done afterwards. The "walking in" scenes, the fist pumps and chatting.

No offense. Its just like comparing Hollywood movies to real life. Im still looking for a gun that never needs to be reloaded.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

That's my point BBJ, what one sees in a video or a hunting show isn't "real hunting" and guys who are just taking up the sport and expect to have hunts unfold like they see on the screen will generally be pretty disappointed.

And like I said, watching most videos is good entertainment while knocking back a beer but as far as learning a bunch, probably not going to happen very often although once in a long while, a gem might appear.

Good luck and shoot straight (with or without the help of a video :beer
Saskcoyote


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Oh yes. Ive been saying that for years. Its no different than the budding bowhunters who think its nothing to go out whack a "booner" as they see it done on TV all the time.


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## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

I think the worst one to watch is Les Johnson. He probably is an awesome coyote hunter, but he makes awful videos. There is so much unrealistic "B roll" footage in those. They can be almost unwatchable. I get a kick out of the scenes where the camera man is in between Les and the coyote. Les will then say out loud " There's one." Then they show the view from behind Les looking at the coyote, and you wonder "where did the camera man go?".

I guess I'm used to Randy Anderson's video's. At least his early ones anyway. Before he got taken over by Primos. I don't think he rein acted any of his footage. I also like Rick Paillet's (verminators) videos. They crack me up. I guess it's the ******* in me. haha


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## YoteSlapper (Mar 12, 2007)

saskcoyote
You said it better than I did. Thanks.
I might have said this on here before, but there is a huge difference between learning from seeing others hunt and having actual field experience. Having said that, I have picked up a few valuable things from videos and this forum that have helped me.

papapete
Did you see the most recent video where Rick gets zapped with the pistol he was told was a cigarette lighter? That was FUNNY! I laughed a bunch while watching that video. Those guys seem to have a lot of fun...

YoteSlapper


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## papapete (Jan 2, 2005)

i have not seen the latest video yet. Fallguy was saying that there is a lot of funny horsing around in it.


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## Fallguy (Jan 23, 2004)

papapete said:


> I also like Rick Paillet's (verminators) videos. They crack me up. I guess it's the ******* in me. haha


They say on the ******* Scale of 1-10, Rick scores in at a 15! LOL I like Verminators too, they are my favorite video. I got to talk to Rick on the phone last summer. He seems like a real down to earth friendly guy. I have heard that from quite a few people.


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