# Roy Moore



## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Wow I'll bet this is controversial. So many people think he is innocent. So many people think he is guilty. I'll have to admit I have no idea. Today he says American politics is in a spiritual battle. That's true, but that makes him neither innocent or guilty. Today there are many women coming forward outing many different people, mostly in Hollywood. The law of averages tells me some are legit, and some are get even for not getting a part in a movie. Women are not automatically honest. If found to be false these women should spend prison time.

Mitch McConnell makes me sick today saying he finds the women totally believable. I have always wondered why people place more trust in the words of a dying man. I also wonder why doctors automatically believe a woman when she gives birth and identifies the father. Men fight and women lie.

I am really torn over the innocence or guilt of Roy Moore. However, I have many suspicions. Why did this come out when he moved ahead in the polls? Why not before? Why not when he run as a judge? I see Moore as sort of another Trump that upsets the republican establishment as much as the democrats. If I was forced to make a judgement I would say this doesn't pass the sniff test. I can not help but think it's perhaps an anti second amendment attack, an anti Trump attack, an anti Christian attack, but there is no proof either direction. I do agree with Moore that the forces of evil are on the march in America. Hillary is simply one of their fallen soldiers and they want to get even. These forces are not all democrat either. They have Mitch Mcconnell and John McCain marching to their drum too.

I still don't know about Moore, but I still believe in innocence until proven guilty. I do believe there should be efforts to find the truth. Which ever party is guilty should face consequences. If true Moore should be removed from office if he wins. If he is innocent what the women and those involved are doing is worse. There should be a suite where they pay heavily if they made this all up. Hmmm what happened to Bill Clinton? Who was head of bimbo eruptions?


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

I often wonder how in depth investigations in such matters are. I suspect most false claimants wouldn't make those claims if every aspect of their lives was scrutinized by an investigation. Sadly people are greedy and vindictive and will often do anything to get even, money or attention. As far as Hollywood couch casting has been a part of it as long as Hollywood has existed. If you don't know about it you are pretty nieve. If you don't want to participate that's fine but if you CHOOSE to participate to get ahead don't cry wolf afterwards. FWIW doing it because you FELT forced to do it is still CHOOSING.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Good point Dakotashooter. Sex has always been a Hollywood system of barter. Half the women or more screwed their way to the top.
I see on the Drudge Report that Rush Limbaugh has pointed out that Moore was a Democrat at the time he supposedly harassed these women.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I agree, innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to apply in certain situations anymore. He is wounded and my prescription would be to have Jeff Sessions take his place because he can't seem to handle his current position. Don't know if it is because he is out of touch, influenced by rhinos or can't deal with the obama holdovers in the justice department. Maybe he is fearful? I have always thought Rudy Giuliani would be good in that position. No nonsense, kick butt, undeterred and unafraid. Would certainly, unlike now, bring a balanced effort to the investigations instead of EVERYTHING being one sided.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Sessions was foolish to recuse himself on the Russian investigation. Trump should let him take back his Senate position as you say and appoint someone else.

I am sitting in a Fargo parking lot as my wife shops, and listening to Rush. It's interesting that the media is trying to hide new allegations about Al Frankon. I guess there are pictures to go with the allegation. Odd how democrats stick together and republicans throw each other under the buss with the slightest of provocations.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=DELLDHP

Above is a link to Franken story.

I hope they go after him. He is nothing but a clown and a poor representation of the state. From his babbling on and trying the "I got you" moments in all of these hearings... not letting people speak/answer his questions in these hearings and so forth.

edit:

An article where leftist celebs are calling Franken to exit from the senate. Finally something I can agree with coming out of hollywierd.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=DELLDHP


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

This shows how slanted the Media is and how they try to move an agenda.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=DELLDHP

Here are is a major difference with Moore vs Franken.

1. Moore's are allegations. Nothing proven yet or evidence produced saying he did these things. But more and more cases/allegations are mounting. So the old saying... where there is smoke there is fire. But yet still allegations.

2. Franken.... THERE IS A PHOTO... showing that he did assault a sleeping woman.

I hope people see the difference.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

I agree wholeheartedly. What bothers me though is that in Moore's case we are talking about a 14 year old girl, amongst others. But again it is allegations. If proven true after the state election Congress expelling him would be a HUGE blow to the Republican Party and have ramifications for 2018 elections IMHO.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Oh I agree 100% that if these allegations are true he needs to have the book throw at him with added weight and umpf behind it. Umpf like 3000 fps.... if you dont know what I mean....go to the reloading section. :beer:

I also agree that if true it will hurt the Rep in 2018.

But I am also thinking with all the sexual abuse coming to light in entertainment industry, politics, sports (Winston today), etc. We are in for a world of shake ups happening across the spectrum. Again if any of these offenses are proven true throw the book at them and lock them all up.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

You hit the nail on the head. Wonder when it will stop? Are they blowing the doors off trying to desensitize the public? After awhile the citizenry may tune out and it will be business as usual:-(


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... id=DELLDHP

More on Franken! Please read the article and show how it is kind of slanted.... They put in some MN statue saying that it isn't sexual assault.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Sounds like Trump says it is OK to elect a pedophile as long as he isn't a Democrat. :eyeroll:

Republicans are hoping Moore wins,isn't allowed into the Senate and Alabama starts the process all over again.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Your way ahead of me Ken, I have no proof either innocent or guilty.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

There is no proof. He said, she said. Only there are a lot more she said. Basically it's who do you believe. But for Trump to say it is better to believe a stronly suspected pedofile over a any Democrat is wrong. :eyeroll: :eyeroll: :eyeroll:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I remember the OJ trial. All the liberals around me said he was innocent, all the conservatives said he was guilty. I said I didn't know. When the news about Bill Clinton and Lewinsky broke the liberals all said he was innocent, and the conservatives said he was guilty. I said I didn't know. I wasn't right or wrong either time, but the liberals were wrong twice. This time I don't know either, and I'm not going to be wrong this time either. I guess I really do believe innocent until proven guilty. Someone's life can be destroyed if we don't practice what we preach.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ken,

You are 100% correct. What is wrong is wrong no matter your political view points.

But you do have to admit the hipocracy of both sides. Dem's were all about firing, impeaching, not electing anyone with any type of sexual history. Now with the stuff coming out about Franken... Just have him meet a committee and also he doesn't need to resign. Same goes for the right with Moore!

Like I said before no actual "proof" just a he said, she said thing... of like how you put it.... she said, she said, she said... etc. I also said... where there is smoke tends to be fire.

But IMO if this is true or can be proven true this guy needs to step aside.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

The thing about these situations is that in the Hollywood and TV entertainment industry the culprits are getting fired. Look at Bill O'Reilly, Charlie Rose, Kevin Spacey, Bill Cosby etc. Yet Politicians aren't from either party.


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

They even have a "slush fund" set up to pay off accusers and then swipe it under the rug. All done privately using OUR money. You can't make this stuff up. Our government is so very crooked and evil nothing would surprise me anymore. Al Sharpton hasn't paid his multimillion dollar tax bill for years and is still operating. Congress is bought and paid for and uses the public's money to cover up their misdeeds. The IRS targets certain groups for political reasons. The justice department does the same. We are approaching the cliff and about to pull a Thelma and Louise.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

north1 said:


> They even have a "slush fund" set up to pay off accusers and then swipe it under the rug. All done privately using OUR money. You can't make this stuff up. Our government is so very crooked and evil nothing would surprise me anymore. Al Sharpton hasn't paid his multimillion dollar tax bill for years and is still operating. Congress is bought and paid for and uses the public's money to cover up their misdeeds. The IRS targets certain groups for political reasons. The justice department does the same. We are approaching the cliff and about to pull a Thelma and Louise.


Ditto :thumb:

I don't know which I dislike more the democrats or the republicans. It's hard to tell them apart. All democrats are liberal, while only 80% of the republicans are liberal. The republicans talk about how they need to defeat the democrats and when they get in office they go right along with the democrats. Currently there are more perverts than money worshipers.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Moore, Franken, the current long list of them, Hollywood, newsmen, religious leaders, etc. All are the lowest of the low, BOTH parties included! And any independents, too! It's time we started teaching our sons and grandsons to respect women, women's rights, and everyone else too, for all that matters. Our commander in chief even calls his bragging "nothing but locker room talk! OK, most of us guys have been guilty of a bit of that, and male cchauvenistic jokes from time to time, me too! But we males don't need to be proud of such behavior or do it any more!! OR excuse it in politicians just because they happen to be our own favorite party and as our POTUS intimates "h yeah, he's probably a guilty womanizer (like me! LOL) but we desperately need that vote for my personal tax cut....ooooppssss.....tax plan!

I've been treating women for over 50 years and when I read some of the stuff uttered on web sites by people who wave bibles and yell Ten Commandments and consider themselves upstanding citizens, I get sick to my stomach! I've listened to hours of confidential "allegations" almost all true by the way, looked after countless unfortunate women "loved and leaved" and left pregnant by these he men predators - another notch on their STD covered Dicks! And astoundingly these same guys go to legislatures and do their damndest to cut off all aid for birth control, abortion services for destitute all alone women, and some even have tried to coerce ME into doing an office midnight abortion to quietly cover up their hypocracy! Hate to say it, but republicans seem more common with this kind of thing. No question! Hell, as a retired Gynecologist I could write a book on screwing around Hypocracy! My colleagues could too......but we'd be sued, sued, sued...and it would be highly unethical. I have to carefully watch what I post here. If the general public really knew what goes on out there the the down to earth citizens would rebel against male sexual love em and leave em predators, the anti birth control groups and the antiabortionists and would be make the Guillotine powered French Revolution look like a Church picnic! And then passsome reasonable workable solutions, for a change! But will never happen in USA.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Wow...... :bop: :bop:


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Its so difficult to nail anyone to the wall. You cant depend on congress and the good ole boy club to honestly judge and punish their own. And if you get anyone else to do it they are subject to cohersion or bribery.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Habitat Hugger I have no reason to question what you say, but sometimes it's the other way around too. Work in law enforcement and find how many older women nail boys under age. That you would be scratching your head over. I think things have become far worse than when we were kids. These men and women all deserve a swift kick in the ------ oh wait


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

That is okay because males are pigs and want it anyway. I'm not downgrading what happens to women, but to say there is not a double standard is not seeing the forest for the trees. We tend to label men as philanderers and pediphiles but the buck seems to stop there. I have knowledge of young men being taken advantage of by older women and it was not even swept under the rug. Was simply discounted and/or accepted as an aberration. A "learning experience". Victims should not be gender specific.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

You both make a good point about the older women/ younger boys thing and of course this happens. And IMO it is just as bad as the other. And yes, such cases are often swept under the rug as pointed out by North, BUT in perspective for every case like that swept under the rug, I can assure you ther is 500, no 1000 cases of the male/forcing female variety. Not even clos3.....
However, in my experience of 49 years (50 next June) unwanted sexual groping and using the power of the male dominated society to coerce or try to coerce women into doing something they don't want to is about 1000 times as common as older women coercing young boys, not even close, and to point this out in my opinion is a pure form of denial! This sounds hokey but after listening to story after story and finding via other means these stories are true, Ive often apologized to patients for being a male, and reassured countless gals that all men are not like that! 
I sure don't mean to say all or most men are rotten animals or pigs, North1! Most are not, but if the vast majority of us XY chromosome carriers are good guys (and I truly believe this) then it's high time we STOP protecting the ones who are not, especially when so often our motivation to do so is so questionable! 
The press and so many websites are too often nowadays " the alleged guy is a member of my favorite political party, or favorite news source, etc. So he must be innocent!" Or " the accused is a $#@& LIBERAL so hes obviously guilty! 
Just saying that if we males are as upright and as moral and as innocent and pure as we try to convince each other on websites, its high time we walked the walk and not just talked the talk every time this disgusting stuff comes up! A lower than low disgusting A hole is exactly that no matter his/her political persuasion, religious affiliation, color, nationality, and so on! ! Toss em all out, and support women and their rights a lot more! 
I've got to,shut up before I'm goaded to go over the line and let stuff out that shall remain confidential forever.....time to head down the lake fishing.......


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## north1 (Nov 9, 2010)

No question the abuse is tilted towards male perpetrators. IMHO it is not in the 500-1,000x more. If it is/was hard for women to "come out" and report incidences, society is much less attuned to males reporting the same. In my 49 years I have personally known two incidences of males taking advantage of women in the work environment. Both of those males were promptly fired. Teachers union stepped in and they were not prosecuted.(they should have had the book thrown at them and/or been neutered). Unions, businesses, government, etc tend to protect their own. In both cases of the opposite (female-male) perpetration I have been privy to nothing happened at all. The males at first thought it was an initiation to manhood, and felt differently later in life. Although years ago they would have been laughed out of the room if they had said anything. Probably still would be.

Seems the gates have opened. Matt Lauer newest addition. Hopefully this will be the warning flag and we won't return to business as usual. Also, I hope it doesn't turn out like some other social changes and we go completely overboard. When the pendulum swings, sometimes it is hard to stop it from moving too far in the opposite direction.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> I can assure you ther is 500, no 1000 cases of the male/forcing female variety. Not even clos3.....


 :rollin: I understand that as a doctor you perhaps seen it that way. I'll blow your mind when I tell you there are more complaints of 25 to 30 year old women on 16 year old boys than the other way around. I guess law enforcement gets a different perspective. I am going to send you a PM.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I agree 100% with everything said here. A crook is a crook... a criminal is a criminal.

One thing that hasn't been brought up is the "false accusations". Yes this does happen time to time and also is hurting true victims from coming forward as well. I don't really have an answer other than if someone comes out and it is PROVEN WITH OUT A DOUBT FALSE.... there need to be punishment. Again I am not saying a he said, she said type situation. Because that is not without a doubt. But were someone is being vindictive, etc. Think Duke Lacrosse team. Also I think anyone who is "protecting" them should also be ripe for law suits. That goes for Unions, political parties, etc. I am not trying to be political here... But think of Bill Clinton and how he was pretty much protected. I used that example because he is the highest of profiles in the USA. It was proven what he was doing... yet protected. President vs Intern!!! Highest power vs lowest. Again I am not calling democrats anything. Just an example of using power over someone and pretty much getting protected and away with it.

I am also afraid with all of this we as a country will go too far. Just like political correctness.


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## Habitat Hugger (Jan 19, 2005)

Chuck, of course there will always be some degree of false accusations, no argument there. Motivations vary for personal fame, money of course, etc. However, as males, we tend to circle the wagons with the false accusation argument, most of us knowing darned well that probably the majority of these claims tend to be true! To say that the recent huge list of men being accused are only allegations, therefore unproven, smoke without fire, is the ultimate in hypocritical denial! 
Like the female teacher seducing the male student thing. Yep, it happens, but male seducing far younger females is a hundred times more common and winked at by a lot of locker room pundits and usually doesn't make the news.
, and there's a lot of " boys will be boys" denial stuff, too. Way too common but a lot of well meaning dads buy into it!

One thing nobody has brought up in this discussion is when is it OK to "hit" on a fellow coworker without risk of accusations of harassment? I suppose there's a line to cross from asking a coworker to lunch or dinner and more subteley using ones power as a boss or higher up to be more forceful. I've always tried to teach my boys the key word is "unwanted" advances. Sure, ask her out but if she says no thank you then that means no. And there is NEVER a reason to grope, pinch *****, grab pu-íes or try force yourself past a NO! But male/ female interaction in the workplace, at church, or any other similar coed is situations can be tricky and inadvertently lead to unforeseen problems....and unforeseen good things, too. What constitutes unwanted harassment, and simple male/female advance? A grey zone for sure. Any comments?

This reminds me of back when Bill Clinton was in a spelling bee and was found to not realize the word " harass" wasn't two words!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> but male seducing far younger females is a hundred times more common


 Absolutely wrong. Read the PM I sent you with law enforcement perspective. With advancements in birth control the females have become much more aggressive than in the past. Now many under age boys have women 25 to 30 years old commonly hit on them. Not a guess female on male in many areas have more police complaints than male of female. As a gynecologist you didn't have many men telling you stories. Maybe with the sex change operations that's changing. I can see a gynecologist telling his patient you vagina is fine, but your prostate is enlarged. :rollin:


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

HH...

Totally agree with you and good job raising your boys to become MEN. Real men can take no for an answer and move on. BTW... great Clinton joke. :rollin:

There is a very thin line out there and both women and men cross it. What I mean is both men and women like the so called "chase" of lets call it courtship and the not wanting to hurt another's feelings. What I mean is women/men like the attention when they get it from the opposite sex. Even if no interest is there they like it and sometime welcome it. That is when lines get crossed and it can turn into harassment in a blink of an eye. I relate it to a sitcom scene.... the show was How I met your mother. The episode is Tea Cup Pig. The whole cast has what they called someone on the "line". And the premise is that they always turn down the person and then say.... Not right now. Example "I don't want to go on a date with you..... Not right now". So in rejection they also leave a door open so to speak. That is where lines get crossed and people keep on advancing/flirting or keep asking out. Again this is for both male/female.


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## dakotashooter2 (Oct 31, 2003)

Think about this.
Dems want Trump removed for actions that happened before he became president, yet Bill Clinton, WHILE IN OFFICE, was guilty of similar or worse offenses and was not removed. Lets face it....It is not right but it has become a priviledge of power and it happens worldwide.

It wouldn't surprise me if Hillary wasn't even guilty of it...but who'd want to admit it. LOL


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> It wouldn't surprise me if Hillary wasn't even guilty of it...


 Yup, I sort of suspect she has groped a few women too.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

One sex offender endorses another. How sad. Trump......"Go get 'em Roy, We don't want a liberal Democrat controlled by Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in the Senate." uke:

Mitt Romney....."Roy Moore in the US Senate would be a stain on the GOP and on the nation.No vote, no majority is worth losing our honor or our integrity." :thumb:


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