# Mourning the loss of young bucks...



## littlegreenman87 (Jan 4, 2006)

*Would you let a younger buck live?*​
I have and I will6487.67%I will continue to shoot anything that has antlers79.59%i just don't know what to do (i can help if this is you)22.74%


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## littlegreenman87 (Jan 4, 2006)

Ok, I am 19 years old, and I am right now living near Bozeman , MT.... (none of that is to be used against me  I was born and raised to the age of seventeen in north dakota... I hunted both with gun and bow every chance i got....

I have been hunting whitetails and studying them and their habits extensively since i was thirteen or fourteen...

I look at photos of every year's deer season... Not just in nd, but everywhere... And i am brought to the edge of suicide when I see all the fork bucks and any small young bucks with amazing potential shot down before they can reach massive sizes... I believe that there are very few bucks born anywhere that when mature; won't grow to be at least a large 4x4 almost always.... It is the same way here in montana, also with elk... everybody shoots the first thing they see that has 'antlers' on its head and try to brag about it to their buddies.... little do the fools know ; if they would be willing to shoot a cow (which are overpopulated in many areas out here ) the bulls they would have shot will be much larger next year....

if a buck is passed up the first two years of its life, at least the third year it will have something worth a damn on it's head...

thanks for not caring everyone out there.....


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## Remington 7400 (Dec 14, 2005)

Really comes down to where I am hunting. If its public land, brown is down(if I don't kill it somebody else will). If private land I will pass the spikes, forks, and small sixes. However if I don't have a descent buck located I have been known to blast away at anything that is legal!


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## MossyMO (Feb 12, 2004)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, every one of us has different values. Not every one of us has a knock out gorgeous wife or girlfriend who could pose for Penthouse, should we put them back and play catch n' release?

Not everything you have pride in has to be taken to the State Fair
... :2cents:


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

If it is on public land I will shot it if it is legal, cause there is no guarantee that a monster will step out. If I dont shoot the smaller deer the hunter on the other side of the hill will. I want to be the one with the backstrap in the freezer not him. So alot of times I shoot the first legal deer I see on public land. Ont the hunting club though I will hold out for a mature deer cause more than likely I have my meat in the freezer from a public land deer and I will be the only one hunting my portion of the hunting club. Now if I see a deer on the hunting club that is an old mature deer with only a 2 or three point rack I will shoot him for management reasons.


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

That would be the reason I came home deerless this year, can't win them all!


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

I got two does on public land this year, but I didnt kill anything but a coyote on my hunting club. Seen a real nice buck about a 16 17 inch spread about a ten point while scouting. Only had a 22 and wouldnt dare shoot him with that. So I held out on him all year and never seen him again.. But I got my meat this year and also my buddy killed 4 and he gave me one of his so I am good for awhile...


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## Quackkills9 (Oct 25, 2004)

I let the little bucks go. Both on Public land and my 240 acre land. Saw a few bucks over the firearm season, two of the bucks I passed up, few minutes later GUNBOOM! so maybe the other party shot at the same buck I saw. Oh well, it is really frustrating but I cant tell them what to shoot. I understand you talking about taking does/cows instead of small bucks/bulls and you can shoot a doe/cow and get meat but no antlers. But we cant do anything about it unless the DNR does something.

this topic comes up alot so there will be another one next fall after firearm season...


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## WingedShooter7 (Oct 28, 2005)

i try to shoot 4 by 4 or bigger and a big body thus making it more of a chance that it is a older mature buck


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Awww yes, the young/mature deer conflict.

The last one was still going on for over a year and a half...classic!

I Shoot Fawns Thread


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## wirehairman (Oct 31, 2005)

Passed up a dandy 4x4 ****** this year on a private ranch hoping he'll grow into a monster. I'm guessing he was only 2 to 3 years old and already had good mass and a 16" to 17" spread. The guy lets a ton of people hunt, so I know the buck's chances may not be good. However, I chose to try and lead by example.

As a bonus, the landowner saw which buck I passed on to shoot a doe and consequently invited me to hunt another piece of property that is typically reserved for family and close friends.


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## Sasha and Abby (May 11, 2004)

We only shoot bucks that are mature. We shoot all the does we need for the freezer.


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## littlegreenman87 (Jan 4, 2006)

well, i would have to agree with 'wirehairman' to some extent... there is only so much responsible hunters can do if the dnr doesn't do something... because there will always be the attitude that as long as nobody else cares, why should i?? i didn't mean to start a major debate here, and i know i was overly sarcastic... ultimately i do not really blame those that choose to shoot younger deer, i just think it a shame... i am glad to see that many of you are doing your best to manage deer where you hunt, and i agree that many times it just gets screwed up by other hunters.. but every young buck passed up, is another buck that may live to be huge, even if it is on public land....


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

Younger deer taste better than an old mature buck, you cant eat those horns either. To me every deer I kill is a trophy, I dont care whether it has 10 points or is a doe, I have the same enjoyment regardless. To you , you may have to killa big buck to get some kinda of enjoyment or fullfillment and thats alright thats your thing. But mine is to make sure I have some deer meat in the freezer. I do like trophy bucks and I try to manage them on my lease. But I didnt buy all that gear and licenses and spend my time scouting and waking up early and walking in the cold to a deer stand, just to watch some young bucks get kiled by another hunter and I go home empty handed cause I waited for a mature buck. I am not saying you cant kill one but I know people who deer hunt and waited all year for that mature buck that didnt show. They are asking me for a little deer meat now. I didnt killa monster but I did kill a trophy.


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## wirehairman (Oct 31, 2005)

I agree in that I typically prefer to eat a younger, dry doe than a mature buck. My wife and I each shoot a doe every year to put meat in the freezer. That is usually enough meat to get us through a year in addition to the birds we harvest, so we "hunt horns" the rest of the season, being very selective in the bucks we do harvest.

A lot of my buddies feel that an unfilled buck tag at the end of the season is a personal affront, so they shoot smaller bucks towards the end of the season just to fill the tag. I would estimate my buck tag goes unfilled 3 out of 4 years because I'm looking for the bruiser, and it hasn't seemed to ruin my life so far.


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## northdakotakid (May 12, 2004)

the problem in ND is that there are strips of cover and during breeding deer will move enormous distances and leave themselves vulnerable in the open alot. So the problem with quality game management is that you need to ahve a very large...non-accessable area locked up to be able to truely manage game. That is why you see so many larger deer being shot this year... the crops were off and the crp program has given the animals some more area to hide and to move through during the breeding season.

My family tries very hard to manage their animals... but the problem is that many vernture out of the area during the rut. BANG... management over!


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## gazoo (Nov 16, 2005)

My 5 year old son will not let me shoot the young ones. A quote from him " Dad you can't kill the baby deers cause they still need their mom's and dad's". My dad took a young pointer this year and heard the same thing from my son. Let them get bigger. It's just like fishing...do you keep the small 1 pound walleye or through him back? Unfortunatly hunting is not catch and release so leave the little ones be!

Just me 2 cents in Canada so it is only worth 1 cent US...hahah


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## Ranger_Compact (Nov 2, 2005)

I throw back the one pound walleye!  And I don't shoot baby deer...their mommas need them. Saddest thing I've ever seen was a baby deer that got hit by a car and was on the side of the road, the frantic doe was leaning over it, nudging it, doing everything it could to try and get her dead baby moving again.


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## littlegreenman87 (Jan 4, 2006)

Why on earth is no one talking on the thread about those huge sheds??? what good does it do just to stare at it and not reply??? if anyone knows anything about it, please tell us


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

What would you like for us to say? WOW they are big aw man did you see those horns man dang those are big holy cow man damn those are some super dooper big horns gee whizz batman. How is that is that better?


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## ohio (Nov 27, 2005)

for the younger hunters this dont apply....but where i hunt we usually only shoot 8 or larger unless there is something rong with the deer......and i can swear to this that we have some of the biggest deer in our area and everyone wonders y???


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## natemil373 (Dec 3, 2005)

I shoot the babies, they are much more tender. Seriously though, I usually shoot a small deer each year, buck or doe doesnt matter to me, with one of my tags for eating purposes only. I have this one converted into steaks and chops and stuff. I will try to shoot a nice buck with the other tag and if successful I will generally have it converted into burger as I find that this is the only meat worth eating from a mature deer.


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

I like to shoot the little button bucks and does. To me they are so tender. I am hunting deer to eat, why would I want to shoot a big ole tough buck, that you cant even chew. Dont get me wrong if he stepped out I would shoot him but I would pass a button buck or a young doe....


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## littlegreenman87 (Jan 4, 2006)

hey hill billy... i can understand if you are from da south why you would want to shoot anything you can find... it is way overpopulated down there..... isn't it? haha well if you are going to shoot a fawn for meat please try to get the ones without a button... just a suggestion....
i understand how it is... I have shot young bucks in the past, but only if i really want to fill my tag, or if i am really hungry at the time


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

Are you telling me that when you are in a tree stand you can tell a button buck from a doe at 35 yards.......?????? I wouold find that hard to believe!!


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## littlegreenman87 (Jan 4, 2006)

hahahaha, yeah i am... can't you tell a button buck by the little swirly dark hair pattern on his head??? well i can, and that is also why they invented binoculars... they still work at 35 yards  i guess you could tell if its a doe by the udder or something eh? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

I can see if it is a button buck at 35 or so yards in good light. But if it is early and the sun isnt quite up or if it is late and the sun isnt quite down it may be hard to tell..................


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

Its not hard to tell a button buck at 35 yards, I ground checkem anyway.. Hey littlegreeman, thanks for the suggestion, but why did you say please, do you think if I pass on a button buck down here , by the time he gets to you up there he will be a mature buck...


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## littlegreenman87 (Jan 4, 2006)

yeah i don't really know what to say... I guess that i shouldn't have posted that last one if i didn't want some crap ... hahaha

its all in fun boys, i'm not going to try to police the u.s. to make sure no one kills any little bucks...


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I'm strongly in favor of ND raising the price of a Firearms Season buck tag to $50-$75 (or more), at the same time lowering the price of all doe tags to $10.

There are a lot of young bucks killed by casual hunters who don't care if it's mature or not, and a lot of extra doe tags left unsold because of the current system. The above suggestion would make a buck tag less attractive to the meat hunter, at the same time making a doe and the extra antlerless tags more attractive.

It would also make taking a small buck less attractive to the folks who are willing to pay for a buck tag.

End result would be more young bucks growing to maturity, and more does taken so as to better balance the herd.

I and most of the trophy hunters I know would be more than willing to pay more for our buck tags, particularly when the result would be seeing more mature bucks a few years down the road...


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## Bob Kellam (Apr 8, 2004)

NDT

That proposal or at least one close to it was a bill proposed to the legislature last session. It was not looked at favorably and went down in flames

Classic Comment by Senator Freborg during debate.....

"If we really wanted to kill more does,we should raise the speed limit."

NDGF is getting control of the deer herd in some areas. At this rate it will take awhile though.

One of the Ideas that was kicked around was the Wisconsin system where you have to harvest a doe in order to harvest a buck......

Bob


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

I know, I watched it closely Bob. I thought that common sense and demonstrated success of this type of management elsewhere would prevail, but common sense isn't rampant in our legislature. See Senator's Froberg for an example...


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

NDT.....Bob is right....there was a bill in the last session to raise buck tags to $30 and drop doe tags to $10.I would be in favor of this idea.....now EVERYONE might as well apply for a buck tag,since you can pretty much get all the extra doe tags you want.

The arguement against this was that large low income families would be priced out of the buck tags and the chance to draw a buck tag shouldn't be based on affordability.


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

I think that arguement is Foolishness ......Pricing someone out of applying for a buck tag by making it $30.00....HAAA! Thats the CHEAPEST part of hunting.....the license. If $30 is gonna "price people out of deerhuntin" (HA HA) then I had BETTER see some of the "low income people" getting rid of all those nice new vehicles parked out in front of the "trailerhouse".........what a weak argument. Your Fired.


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

PS......... :eyeroll:


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

headhunter.....not my argument.....that was the testimony against the bill during the last session.....maybe you should go and testify next time. :bop:


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Ken, No I wasn't saying you said that arguement, just the boneheads in the legislature.........just makes no sense to me. The Class warfare argument does no good to managing our wildlife properly.


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## cbass (Sep 9, 2003)

would and have many many times. Passed up a **** load of 140's this year hard but in the end it pays off. 140's are becomming common in our area and it is all thanks to being perticular. Few years back that was a monster not any more. Easy to let them go? YES! Give a guy a chance.


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## cbass (Sep 9, 2003)

killadoe?

what exactly is a ten point???? :lol:

NDT

I agree with u one hundred percent. "Oh a doe is 20 or a buck is 20 why not i will shot the first dink that i see."
Makes me sick. You want a deer to eat shot a FAWN you want a trophy apply for a buck tag and shot the first dink you see? Bull****

Is it wrong that i am a trophy hunter? Beef is cheaper.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

cbass what unit you hunting? Sounds good on the bunch of 140's running around, a bunch of us will put in for your hunting unit to help you manage those little 140's better...


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

Cbass, are you an idiot? You dont know what a ten point is? You shouldnt even be talking. Go ahead read what we have to say, but if you dont know what a ten point is then why would anybody want to listen to any other bull s#$& you have to say.......Come on man, a ten point.....hahahahahahaha


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## PAhunter271 (Jan 16, 2006)

I also do not enjoy listening to people telling me stories about theyre six points and smaller. i think you should let a deer grow older than that before you harvest it. This is my first year out deer hunting. I go out archery and rifle. even tho it is my first year out i passed up a number of shots at six points and smaller during archery season. When i finally decided to shoot at a ten point it ducked. People go out in the woods and shoot little buck. wats the point. if your gonna shoot a little buck shoot a doe instead. doe manegment is more important than getting that little buck and u will still end up with really good venison.


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

Thats all fine and dandy but alot of people dont have great big deer walking around, to some people a six or a so is wall hanger. Just because one areas has those trophy deer dont mean other places do. ANother thing is alot of people hunt on public property where it is extremely hard to manage deer and the only deer they may see are small bucks. Just because you are lucky enough on your first year deer hunting to miss a big deer and pas up other dont mean everybody else has the same oppurtunities. Congratulations on your first year hunting I hope you are a successful hunter. Take Care....


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## cbass (Sep 9, 2003)

killadoe,

The fact of the matter is we do not refer to them as 10 points. 5x5 is what we go by. Sorry to upset you, but take a deep breath, lean back in your chair and realize that it was just a little fun being poked. Feel better now, i sure do. Take care of yourself.

Later,
"Idiot"


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## cbass (Sep 9, 2003)

Sorry buckseye. Didn't mean to make it sound like a 140 was a little deer. Just don't see much point in taking them when have taken several in that range. Got my younger brother a 153 (9 point :lol: )this year, had him at 50 yards watching me but just couldn't do it knowing that he was posting about 100 yards in front of me and he had never got anything close to that caliber. Don't get me wrong a 140 class is a very good deer, 4 years ago, no question, lead would have been flying but i have seen to many that are much better while scouting to make myself pull the trigger. Take care.


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## kase (Jan 23, 2005)

cbass,
are you talking about gun hunting or bowhunting?...or both? i can see where you would pass up a 140 inch deer with a rifle...it does't mean anything, but with a bow 140 gets you in the books. would you pull the trigger with a bow? also, i would like to see a pic of that 153" 9-point. must be a hell of a deer to net 153 inches since one of the points on one side would be deducted...or were you talking gross score? either way...must be a really nice buck. post a pic if you have one.

kase


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

cbass no apology needed...you didn't make it sound like a 140 was little I just wanted to know what unit is full of 140's... maybe hunt there and let these grow up here for a while.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Killadoe,

Do you have a problem with the forum's conduct rules?

Calling someone an idiot may end up getting you banned.

So, he asked about a 10 pointer, maybe he was kidding?

Also, the western states only count points on one side.


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

Okay I am sorry Cbass for saying that I thought you were being a smart a$$. I apologize for the comment, I didnt realize you were joking. My Bad. Also PSDC thanks for the help I dont think we would have made it through with out you. You are an outstanding individual, Nobel Peace Prize material huh. Anyway thanks for the help you have my vote for mayor of Nodak Outdoors. Again Cbass I am sorry fo calling you an idiot.


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## PSDC (Jul 17, 2003)

Killadoe,

You are not "Fletch" in disguise?


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

Fraid not,


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

Why do western states only count one side? Seems like if there are 4 on one side and 4 on the other that would add up to be an 8 point not a 4 point right. I have heard of like 4x4, why not say eight point. Just curious thats all, not trying to change anything...


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## headhunter (Oct 10, 2002)

Good question, actually doing what you say makes more sense.....And I'm from 'up north'........ I'm used to 5x5 , 6x7, etc thats how we say it up here. Its just a pre determined order of conduct up North when discussing how big a buck you saw. I wonder why it is that way....like I said saying 10 point if the buck is a 5x5 almost makes more sense.....but you gotta admit, the Yankee way is a more "detailed" way of describing what you shot, as then you know exact amount of points on each side, mentally giving you a better picture.......U gotta agree with me there right? I mean if i say I shoot a 9 pointer, ....does he have 8 on one side and a spike on the other? Where if I say I shot a 5x4 your immediately get the picture. 8)


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

So if I say I killed a nine point you cant tell that one side has 5 and the other 4?


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## PAhunter271 (Jan 16, 2006)

I have a friend who shot a 14 point opening day of late archery with a crossbow. It had 4 up with a split browtine on one side and 5 up split browtine with a kicker on the other sidem, 6x8. usually when you say 14 point they think 7x7.


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

But what does each side matter, all the points are still on the same deers head? It dont matter if it is a kicker point or what, as long as a ring wont fall off of it its a point. You said you buddy killed a 14 point with 4 up and 5 up and kickers and splits and all, wasnt it easier to say 14 point?


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## PAhunter271 (Jan 16, 2006)

yes it is easier to say but it does not describe the deer at all. this was a non-typical buck and it would be very hard to know exactly what it lookm like if i did not describe it.


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

Just say a non typical 14 point, or take a damn picture.


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

But if you said it was a 6x8, that dont describe it any better than 14 point.


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## Azian (Jul 8, 2004)

When I hear people tell stories about their six points I'm happy because they are still proud of the accomplishment. I understand the concepts of heard and *trophy* management, but I really enjoy knowing that people are still hunting to enjoy the outdoors rather then to have something to brag about. If a person chooses to shoot a forky and is proud of the experience, then good for them. Most people I know hunt public land and yes there are good size bucks, but more often people will see the more numerous amount smaller bucks in the limited time they have to hunt. maybe the stalk makes the deer more of a trophy then the headgear he is sporting.


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## killadoe (Dec 12, 2005)

Agreed


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

hill billy... up north life isn't easy and we do everything the hard way on purpose to keep the population down. :lol:


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

Really, yall living on the edge up there huh...


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

:lol: :lol: absolutely, one foot over the edge :lol:


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## hill billy (Jan 10, 2006)

HAHA you yanks and yalls trickery......


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