# Question for Moderators



## IA Boy (Oct 18, 2006)

What is the issue with asking questions about what conditions / birds counts are like?

I am a NR and have a trip already planned for North Central area of ND. . From what I can get from the few reports that are out there, hunting it slow at best.

The last USFWS report was on 10/11. Over 1 week ago. There has been one cold front push through since then and it appears that one more is headed it's way. 
I know that some or most water is locked up with ice and with another cold front on the way, possibly (more than likely) causing more ice.

There are 6 Hunters in our group and a few of the hunters are considering not making the trip due to lack of information and weather.

Without updated reports, it makes for a difficult decision to make the trip or spend the money.

I would like to think that ND communities / state, would welcome the revenue NR hunters bring to the communities and state. I for one would be more than happy to give information about IA conditions and bird counts if I new it would help to bring revenue into our state.

Our group has been traveling to Canada the last 6 years and we all agreed that even though hunting can be very good there, we would like to keep our money in the US from now on. We thought ND would be a great start.

The lack on information about hunting on what is supposed to be an outdoors website and hunting forum makes me wonder about the hospitality of other ND hunters.

Just my thoughts. :huh:


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## H20fwlIowa (Feb 1, 2006)

Fellow Iowa guy here. I totally agree with you that there is a lot of B.S to read through on this site. There are a select few that will help a fellow hunter out but this site is like amny others where most people just want to pad post counts and not be any help or have anything decent to say at all. I do agree that internet scouting is kind of lame but for a NR to ask how a area is, to me is not scouting who wants to drive that distance and have it be a bust. I to have a trip planned for Nodak but might not go as The weather is early and birds are already pouring into are area. We do't see alot of birds but I've seen thousands already.

If you can find the select few by ready other posts PM them if not scour the site for what info you can find.


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## Duece_Duster (Oct 18, 2006)

i feel for you NRs i was one at one point, i resently switched and atend school at NDSU in fargo.
I have met alot of hunters from many diferent states that chase all different types of speicies, but i am afraid that all hunters are alike in the fact that if they are shooting bird or doing well they keep it to them selves, call it selfish but i am the same way, after all alot of time and money is put into scouting, i have no problem telling people when the ducks are here but i am going to be pritty vage about the details, but that dosent mean i dont wish you the best of luck


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## dakota_native (May 6, 2003)

first of all i agree, it is hard to get information from anyone in north dakota, i have lived here all my life and i still can't get information from people. but when people do find hot spots, or even good spots, they don't want anyone around that area. alot of is has to do with hours an hours of scouting, then to try and keep it to yourself or even with low hunting pressure is hard. but honestly if you need help getting general info on what is going on and how the weather is, i don't mind helping, email me and i will help. my email address is [email protected]


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## IA Boy (Oct 18, 2006)

Duece_Duster

I understand your point completely. It would be difficult for me to give away information regarding the area we hunt in IA and how we are doing but if I was asked about waterfowl counts in our area, I would respond honestly. 
No one wants other hunters sponging off their area but if there are more than sufficient birds in the area, why not let them know?

I would never ask for specifics, but it would be nice to know if there are birds in the area where we are going. When say area, I am not asking that immediate area, but the counties in that area. If there is an influx of birds in 50 mile radius, that would be appealing. Not knowing anything is the biggest issue.

The property we will be hunting is a co-workers relative. There is ample acreage for us to hunt so we would not be imposing on anyone's "hunting" spot because no one is currently hunting it. This is the choice of the landowner and it has nothing to do with holding the property for us but rather he does not normally allow hunting. His choice.

With this being the first time to ND, all I am looking for is a good quality goose decoying hunt.


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## H20fwlIowa (Feb 1, 2006)

Guys I agree 100%, I don't give up my sweet spot either. But if some was to ask hey whats the duck population like in south east Nodak? Thats not what I'm asking. I don't want o know that the field or pond on he corner of such in such Hiway is full of ducks. I just want to know that If I drive 1000 freakin miles that I might have some luck. After its called huntin and not gettin!!!!!!!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

IABoy

Welcome to the forums. As you've seen, we are not allowing internet scouting during the season, as many guys here have spent quite a bit of their own $money$ to scout and find spots.

I read the replies to this point and I'd offer a couple of thoughts. The definition of internet scouting as I understand it is asking for information about a specific area in regards to # of birds, access/amount of posting, or influx of migrators. All of this information could be used by people scouting via the internet to increase the amount of "new" random hunters into the area.

You said:



IA Boy said:


> No one wants other hunters sponging off their area but if there are more than sufficient birds in the area, why not let them know?
> 
> I would never ask for specifics, but it would be nice to know if there are birds in the area where we are going. When say area, I am not asking that immediate area, but the counties in that area. If there is an influx of birds in 50 mile radius, that would be appealing. Not knowing anything is the biggest issue.


You are correct noone wants someone sponging off their area. The issue isn't whether there is sufficient amounts of birds in the area, *but rather is there sufficient access* for all of the current hunters who go there because it's their "home territory" *AND* all the new hunters who will then show up when the word gets out. Heck there could be 5 million birds sitting on Farmer Joe's pasture, but if you don't have access how does it matter? Even asking about the birds in a 50 mile radius is touchy, because often times guys easily travel around that far looking for birds everywhere. Sometimes all it takes is a local rumor hinting there is an influx near lake X that will shift a ton of guys over to that area, especially this year considering how difficult finding birds has been.

You then said:



IA Boy said:


> The property we will be hunting is a co-workers relative. There is ample acreage for us to hunt so we would not be imposing on anyone's "hunting" spot because no one is currently hunting it. This is the choice of the landowner and it has nothing to do with holding the property for us but rather he does not normally allow hunting. His choice.
> 
> With this being the first time to ND, all I am looking for is a good quality goose decoying hunt.


If you have your access locked up as you say you do, why not contact that landowner and get the information from the horse's mouth who owns the property? What better first hand exact information could you ask for besides that?

To answer your question, yes there are definitely birds in the area you are going. There are always ducks/geese hanging around ND until November in the county. How many and where they will be exactly is changing from day to day and week to week.

Timing with the weather and migration will be the factors that determine your success this year. It appears there is an early winter weather pattern going on. That throws everything into flux and nothing is certain too far in advance. ND could get a huge blizzard this coming weekend pushing every bird all the way down to Nebraska... you never know!

Good Luck to you. I hope this helps you understand better where we are coming from? If you or anyone else have further questions you'd like to take offline, please feel free to PM me or any of the other moderators.

Thanks for your understanding...

Regards,

Ryan


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## clacy (Mar 16, 2005)

I am a non resident who, along with four other guys, come to north dakota every year and have been doning so for five years now. I applaud the moderators decision to block scouting reports. We will continue to hunt in nodak as long as we are allowed to do so. The first year we did good but we have gotten better every year, shooting more mallards and canadas which is why we came in the first place. We were all seasoned hunters of 20 plus years a piece but of timber hunting, not the open prairie style. We came this year despite poor scouting information from contacts we have developed over the years. You see, we come for vacation. Yes we want to shoot ducks and geese. But I have a saying that I use back home. "Never take somone hunting who says 'call me when the birds show up'." If you can't bear to take an unknown risk, and you don't want to "waste your time" by hunting and not killing, then go with an outfitter or get your butt out there and drive. I assure you that when you put in a effort that may seem futile at times but then you find that one good spot and have a good hunt, you will be proud to be able to say "we did this on our own."


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

clacy,

I wish they were all like you!

Jim


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## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

Usually land access is not a problem but last weekend I spent all afternoon and night Sat until i felt it was too late to bother landowners, trying to get a field lined up for sunday. I never did and ended up in the closest unposted field to an area trying to run traffic. It was the third weekend in a row I had hunted that area and there were more birds by far then the previous 2 weekends yet my hunts were much less successful if you consider dead birds success.

Landowners were usually willing but the best spots all had people granted permission previous to me.

Now the outdoor benefits of ND have something to do with why a lot of the people on the board live here. I spent close to 200$ on my gas and other expenses last weekend and I live in ND. People are willing to let you know what the ice conditions are in an area. There are migration reports and bird #'s change daily this time of year. What exactly do you want? Will you be here tomarrow morning if I told you I saw 10k mallards in field X next to town Y? Fact is there will be huntable #'s of birds around for a little bit.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

clacy said:


> If you can't bear to take an unknown risk, and you don't want to "waste your time" by hunting and not killing, then go with an outfitter or get your butt out there and drive.


Exactly! That is all part of the excitement, being on ground that is not familiar and not knowing where the birds will take you. Last time I checked it is still called hunting.


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## hammertime (Oct 6, 2005)

you guys talk about all the money you are bringing to our state, well that is true but us hunters are not seeing any of that money its the guys that are already well to due getting all of your money like gas stations, grocery stores, resorts ect WHY would i give up information about hunting in my state to you when i want to be out there hunting and all it seems that we get out of non residents is more competition to find birds and more posted land. i put my time in every week and thousands of miles on my vehicles every year to have good hunts and make good relationships with land owners, this is a year around thing not just one week out of the year, and then im supposed to feel sorry for people and tell them whre the great hunt is going to take place???


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## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

If we don't give out info on the birds, then you will spend even more money at our gas stations!!!!!


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

IA Boy said:


> The last USFWS report was on 10/11. Over 1 week ago. There has been one cold front push through since then and it appears that one more is headed it's way.


Sorry but the USFW put out that information once a week late Wed. If you want more current information.....call thye refuge headquarters closest to where you want to hunt.They are always willing to tell you how it is in their area.By the way....new information from them as of yesterday is on the Duck Forum.


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

IA Boy you have to understand how many people show up on the site in October asking the same question. Some people who live here have been scouting/watching birds in an area since summer so they aren't going to just volunteer info. I know some of us will send a pm to help you out if were in the area or have info. However this fall I'm not much help as our twins are only 16 months and getting away is still difficlut so I hunt closer to home. Based on my experience you have pretty good hunting the last two weeks of Oct. and it's colder this fall so the birds will be down sooner. Be patient on the site and let us know how things go with the trip.


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## ADN (Sep 27, 2005)

I feel it is disrespectful for someone to just expect those who have gained experience the hard way to just give up information.

This goes for any state and any location, resident hunters know their areas through time spent afield and behind the wheel. The area I hunt, I know because of the hours I spend there during the off-season and during season. I've scouted so much of it and have some understanding of why birds do certain things in my area. If someone else wants to put in the same time, great. But, I am not going to just give away the information I have. Nor do I want to see someone else just give that information away.

The information people have gained is personal and they shouldn't be expected to share it. The moderators need to take steps to keep the site friendly and orderly. They felt the issue of internet scouting was causing problems. They decided to regulate it.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

> I feel it is disrespectful for someone to just expect those who have gained experience the hard way to just give up information.


I could not have put it any better. I view internet scouting like panhandling. I've never given someone who begs for money a nickel. If you have the motivation to beg for money you could just as easily ask if I would like fries with my hamburger at McDonalds.

If you have the time and money to travel and hunt. Then you obviously have the time and money to scout and ask permission just like the rest of us. If you don't understand that mentality then you are a shooter and I have no time for you at all.


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## Jared Vergeldt (Apr 4, 2006)

I can't speak totally for ND because i'm from northeast SD but...you NR's have to understand where the locals are coming from. You say you don't mind giving out info on Iowa if someone asks. Fact is no one asks about iowa so that is easy for you to say. To me, i get a little frustrated about scouting SD as well. As for me, it wouldn't be that bad if a few guys here and there asked etc but it's not. SD has approximately 100,000 NR's come for pheasant hunting. That is 10k more than local hunters. I'm guessing it is same for waterfowl in ND. Every corner i turn i see foreign plates on land i've hunted for years. Picture it this way. If Iowa had the hunting ND did and several hundred thousand NR's flocked to your area each year-you would have a different mind set. Yes it brings revenue but it brings tensions as well. It goes for fishing here too. Heck, us small town boys get fired up sometimes when we see bigger SD plates around. 
Again, the majority of locals don't mind NR's and giving out hints, it's just that it never ends due to shear numbers. I personally don't get too fired up but on occasion i do. Try to put shoe on other foot. :beer:


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## H20fwlIowa (Feb 1, 2006)

Jared I beg to differ with you that we don't get NR's by the boat loads coming here. Deer season is full of them and yes even Pheasant season seems to bring in a ton. Not sure if your aware of this but the world record Non-Typical Buck was killed here in Iowa. Now ask yourself what do you think that did for NR deer hunting?

Like I've said before not to many post have said give me specifics for Lake X or field Y. We would just like to know if birds are moving in or if Ice and cold is taking over. And don't throw shots at Iowa when your from SD.


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## Jared Vergeldt (Apr 4, 2006)

Shots at iowa?? If you think those are shots you sure have problems. Little defensive i'd say. I know iowa has nice bucks..so you're telling me you have 100-150k NR's coming to your state to hunt deer? I highly doubt it. But maybe. SD has that for pheasants, walleye fishing, and about 1/2 that (give or take) for waterfowl. I might be guessing here but, i doubt your state has that type of traffic. If you read my post clearly, you would've seen that i said most guys don't mind giving out hints now and then but it gets OLD! With so many NR's asking--that may be one reason guys get tight lipped after a while. 
By the way, if you want to know conditions, call a local hotel or bar or weather station. When you ask on a site you are basically hoping someone tells you where the birds are. That is internet scouting!


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## Blue Plate (Jul 31, 2006)

SD around 5,000 non-resident waterfowl hunters.


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

hammertime said:


> its the guys that are already well to due getting all of your money like gas stations, grocery stores, resorts ect


 Man I wish I would have known before that I was well to due! I would have quit my other two part time jobs a long time ago. :lol:


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## Jared Vergeldt (Apr 4, 2006)

You are right..i didn't type that clear. I was estimating NR for waterfowl about "1/2" of north dakotas, not half the pheasant nrs in SD. Which by looking at the NDs numbers i was still overestimating by a few thousand. didn't realize ND had 30k Nrs. Sorry wasn't clear. My numbers were for the most part estimates but, not very far off except for the before metioned..SD waterfowl numbers.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

hey you guys just PM me I'll tell you everything I know... no joke.

I don't know where you get these ice reports but it does need to be below freezing to make ice... just watch our temps not reports. ain't nothing froze around here on the tundra.

Lotta ducks in many places... don't let the competition/sport you all love so much turn you sour... don't forfeit your game!!!! :lol:


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## Madison (Mar 1, 2002)

IA Boy said:


> There are 6 Hunters in our group and a few of the hunters are considering not making the trip due to lack of information and weather.
> 
> Without updated reports, it makes for a difficult decision to make the trip or spend the money.
> 
> The lack on information about hunting on what is supposed to be an outdoors website and hunting forum makes me wonder about the hospitality of other ND hunters.


Well what the heck did you guys do before "internet Scouting"??? If your not satisfied with the information that you are getting, try going back to the "old tactics" of hunting.

A wise man once said "Hunt hard, Scout harder"


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