# Facts about our President.



## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20041108&s=facts

Here it is:
The sources are clickable links on the actual webpage.

The Nation

November 8, 2004 issue 100 Facts and 1 Opinion Posted October 20, 2004

The Non-Arguable Case Against the Bush Administration
by Judd Legum

IRAQ

1. The Bush Administration has spent more than $140 billion on a war of choice in Iraq.

Source: American Progress

2. The Bush Administration sent troops into battle without adequate body armor or armored Humvees.

Sources: Fox News, The Boston Globe

3. The Bush Administration ignored estimates from Gen. Eric Shinseki that several hundred thousand troops would be required to secure Iraq.

Source: PBS

4. Vice President Cheney said Americans "will, in fact, be greeted as liberators" in Iraq.

Source: The Washington Post

5. During the Bush Administration's war in Iraq, more than 1,000 US troops have lost their lives and more than 7,000 have been injured.

Source: globalsecurity.org

6. In May 2003, President Bush landed on an aircraft carrier in a flight suit, stood under a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished," and triumphantly announced that major combat operations were over in Iraq. Asked if he had any regrets about the stunt, Bush said he would do it all over again.

Source: Yahoo News

7. Vice President Cheney said that Iraq was "the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault for many years, but most especially on 9/11." The bipartisan 9/11 Commission found that Iraq had no involvement in the 9/11 attacks and no collaborative operational relationship with Al Qaeda.

Source: MSNBC , 9-11 Commission

8. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said that high-strength aluminum tubes acquired by Iraq were "only really suited for nuclear weapons programs," warning "we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." The government's top nuclear scientists had told the Administration the tubes were "too narrow, too heavy, too long" to be of use in developing nuclear weapons and could be used for other purposes.

Source: New York Times

9. The Bush Administration has spent just $1.1 billion of the $18.4 billion Congress approved for Iraqi reconstruction.

Source: USA Today

10. According to the Administration's handpicked weapon's inspector, Charles Duelfer, there is "no evidence that Hussein had passed illicit weapons material to al Qaeda or other terrorist organizations, or had any intent to do so." After the release of the report, Bush continued to insist, "There was a risk--a real risk--that Saddam Hussein would pass weapons, or materials, or information to terrorist networks."

Sources: New York Times, White House news release

11. According to Duelfer, the UN inspections regime put an "economic strangle hold" on Hussein that prevented him from developing a WMD program for more than twelve years.

Source: Los Angeles Times

TERRORISM

12. After receiving a memo from the CIA in August 2001 titled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack America," President Bush continued his monthlong vacation.

Source: CNN.com

13. The Bush Administration failed to commit enough troops to capture Osama bin Laden when US forces had him cornered in the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan in November 2001. Instead, they relied on local warlords.

Source: csmonitor.com

14. The Bush Administration secured less nuclear material from sites around the world vulnerable to terrorists in the two years after 9/11 than were secured in the two years before 9/11.

Source: nti.org

15. The Bush Administration underfunded Nunn-Lugar--the program intended to keep the former Soviet Union's nuclear legacy out of the hands of terrorists and rogue states--by $45.5 million.

Source: armscontrol.org

16. The Bush Administration has assigned five times as many agents to investigate Cuban embargo violations as it has to track Osama bin Laden's and Saddam Hussein's money.

Source: Associated Press

17. According to Congressional Research Service data, the Bush Administration has underfunded security at the nation's ports by more than $1 billion for fiscal year 2005.

Source: American Progress

18. The Bush Administration did not devote the resources necessary to prevent a resurgence in the production of poppies, the raw material used to create heroin, in Afghanistan--creating a potent new source of financing for terrorists.

Source: Pakistan Tribune

19. Vice President Cheney told voters that unless they elect George Bush in November, "we'll get hit again" by terrorists.

Source: Washington Post

20. Even though an Al Qaeda training manual suggests terrorists come to the United States and buy assault weapons, the Bush Administration did nothing to prevent the expiration of the ban.

Source: sfgate.com

21. Despite repeated calls for reinforcements, there are fewer experienced CIA agents assigned to the unit dealing with Osama bin Laden now than there were before 9/11.

Source: New York Times

22. Before 9/11, John Ashcroft proposed slashing counterterrorism funding by 23 percent.

Source: americanprogress.org

23. Between January 20, 2001, and September 10, 2001, the Bush Administration publicly mentioned Al Qaeda one time.

Source: commondreams.org

24. The Bush Administration granted the 9/11 Commission $3 million to investigate the September 11 attacks and $50 million to the commission that investigated the Columbia space shuttle crash.

Source: commondreams.org

25. More than three years after 9/11, just 5 percent of all cargo--including cargo transported on passenger planes--is screened.

Source: commondreams.org

NATIONAL SECURITY

26. During the Bush Administration, North Korea quadrupled its suspected nuclear arsenal from two to eight weapons.

Source: New York Times

27. The Bush Administration has openly opposed the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, undermining nuclear nonproliferation efforts.

Source: commondreams.org

28. The Bush Administration has spent $7 billion this year--and plans to spend $10 billion next year--for a missile defense system that has never worked in a test that wasn't rigged.

Sources: www.gao.gov/new.items/d04409.pdf, Los Angeles Times

29. The Bush Administration underfunded the needs of the nation's first responders by $98 billion, according to a Council on Foreign Relations study.

Source: nationaldefensemagazine.org

CRONYISM AND CORRUPTION

30. The Bush Administration awarded a multibillion-dollar no-bid contract to Halliburton--a company that still pays Vice President Cheney hundreds of thousands of dollars in deferred compensation each year (Cheney also has Halliburton stock options). The company then repeatedly overcharged the military for services, accepted kickbacks from subcontractors and served troops dirty food.

Sources: The Washington Post, The Tapei Times, BBC News

31. The Bush Administration told Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan about plans to go to war with Iraq before telling Secretary of State Colin Powell.

Source: detnews.com

32. The Bush Administration relentlessly pushed an energy bill containing $23.5 billion in corporate tax breaks, much of which would have benefited major campaign contributors.

taxpayer.net, Washington Post

33. The Bush Administration paid Iraqi-exile and neocon darling Ahmad Chalabi $400,000 a month for intelligence, including fabricated claims about Iraqi WMD. It continued to pay him for months after discovering that he was providing inaccurate information.

Source: MSNBC

34. The Bush Administration installed as top officials more than 100 former lobbyists, attorneys or spokespeople for the industries they oversee.

Source: Source: commondreams.org

35. The Bush Administration let disgraced Enron CEO Ken Lay--a close friend of President Bush--help write its energy policy.

Source: MSNBC

36. Top Bush Administration officials accepted $127,600 in jewelry and other presents from the Saudi royal family in 2003, including diamond-and-sapphire jewelry valued at $95,500 for First Lady Laura Bush.

Source: Seattle Times

37. Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge awarded lucrative contracts to several companies in which he is an investor, including Microsoft, GE, Sprint, Pfizer and Oracle.

Source: cq.com

38. President Bush used images of firefighters carrying flag-draped coffins through the rubble of the World Trade Center to score political points in a campaign advertisement.

Source: The Washington Post

THE ECONOMY

39. President Bush's top economic adviser, Greg Mankiw, said the outsourcing of American jobs abroad was "a plus for the economy in the long run."

Source: CBS News

40. The Bush Administration turned a $236 billion surplus into a $422 billion deficit.

Sources: Fortune, dfw.com

41. The Bush Administration implemented regulations that made millions of workers ineligible for overtime pay.

Source: epinet.org

42. The Bush Administration has crippled state budgets by underfunding federal mandates by $175 billion.

Source: cbpp.org

43. President Bush is the first President since Herbert Hoover to have a net loss of jobs--around 800,000--over a four-year term.

Source: The Guardian

44. The Bush Administration gave Accenture a multibillion-dollar border control contract even though the company moved its operations to Bermuda to avoid paying taxes.

Sources: The New York Times, cantonrep.com

45. In 2000, candidate George W. Bush said "the vast majority of my tax cuts go to the bottom end of the spectrum." He passed the tax cuts, but the top 20 percent of earners received 68 percent of the benefits.

Sources: cbpp.org, vote-smart.org

46. In 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised to pay down the national debt to a historically low level. As of September 30, the national debt stood at $7,379,052,696,330.32, a record high.

Sources: www.georgewbush.com , Bureau of the Public Debt

47. As major corporate scandals rocked the nation's economy, the Bush Administration reduced the enforcement of corporate tax law--conducting fewer audits, imposing fewer penalties, pursuing fewer prosecutions and making virtually no effort to prosecute corporate tax crimes.

Source: iht.com

48. The Bush Administration increased tax audits for the working poor.

Source: theolympian.com

49. In 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised to protect the Social Security surplus. As President, he spent all of it.

Sources: georgewbush.com, Congressional Budget Office

50. The Bush Administration proposed slashing funding for the largest federal public housing program, putting 2 million families in danger of losing their housing.

Source: San Francisco Examiner

51. The Bush Administration did nothing to prevent the minimum wage from falling to an inflation-adjusted fifty-year low.

Source: Los Angeles Times

EDUCATION

52. The Bush Administration underfunded the No Child Left Behind Act by $9.4 billion.

Source: nwitimes.com

53. In 2000, candidate George W. Bush promised to increase the maximum federal scholarship, or Pell Grant, by 50 percent. Instead, each year he has been in office he has frozen or cut the maximum scholarship amount.

Source: Source: edworkforce.house.gov x

54. The Bush Administration's Secretary of Education, Rod Paige, called the National Education Association--a union of teachers--a "terrorist organization."

Sources: CNN.com

HEALTHCARE

55. The Bush Administration, in violation of the law, refused to allow Medicare actuary Richard Foster to tell members of Congress the actual cost of their Medicare bill. Instead, they repeated a figure they knew was $100 billion too low.

Source: Washington Post, realcities.com

56. The nonpartisan GAO concluded the Bush Administration created illegal, covert propaganda--in the form of fake news reports--to promote its industry-backed Medicare bill.

Source: General Accounting Office

57. The Bush Administration stunted research that could lead to new treatments for Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, diabetes, spinal injuries, heart disease and muscular dystrophy by placing severe restrictions on the use of federal dollars for embryonic stem-cell research.

Source: CBS News

58. The Bush Administration reinstated the "global gag rule," which requires foreign NGOs to withhold information about legal abortion services or lose US funds for family planning.

Source: healthsciences.columbia.edu

59. The Bush Administration authorized twenty companies that have been charged with fraud at the federal or state level to offer Medicare prescription drug cards to seniors.

Source: American Progress

60. The Bush Administration created a prescription drug card for Medicare that locks seniors into one card for up to a year but allows the corporations offering the cards to change their prices once a week.

Source: Washington Post

61. The Bush Administration blocked efforts to allow Medicare to negotiate cheaper prescription drug prices for seniors.

Source: American Progress

62. At the behest of the french fry industry, the Bush Administration USDA changed their definition of fresh vegetables to include frozen french fries.

Source: commondreams.org

63. In a case before the Supreme Court, the Bush Administrations sided with HMOs--arguing that patients shouldn't be allowed to sue HMOs when they are improperly denied treatment. With the Administration's help, the HMOs won.

Source: ABC News

64. The Bush Administration went to court to block lawsuits by patients who were injured by defective prescription drugs and medical devices.

Source: Washington Post

65. President Bush signed a Medicare law that allows companies that reduce healthcare benefits for retirees to receive substantial subsidies from the government.

Source: Bloomberg News

66. Since President Bush took office, more than 5 million people have lost their health insurance.

Source: CNN.com

67. The Bush Administration blocked a proposal to ban the use of arsenic-treated lumber in playground equipment, even though it conceded it posed a danger to children.

Source: Miami Herald

68. One day after President Bush bragged about his efforts to help seniors afford healthcare, the Administration announced the largest dollar increase of Medicare premiums in history.

Source: iht.com

69. The Bush Administration--at the behest of the tobacco industry--tried to water down a global treaty that aimed to help curb smoking.

Source: tobaccofreekids.org

70. The Bush Administration has spent $270 million on abstinence-only education programs even though there is no scientific evidence demonstrating that they are effective in dissuading teenagers from having sex or reducing the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases.

Source: salon.com

71. The Bush Administration slashed funding for programs that suggested ways, other than abstinence, to avoid sexually transmitted diseases.

Source: LA Weekly

ENVIRONMENT

72. The Bush Administration gutted clean-air standards for aging power plants, resulting in at least 20,000 premature deaths each year.

Source: cta.policy.net

73. The Bush Administration eliminated protections on more than 200 million acres of public lands.

Source: calwild.org

74. President Bush broke his promise to place limits on carbon dioxide emissions, an essential step in combating global warming.

Source: Washington Post

75. Days after 9/11, the Bush Administration told people living near Ground Zero that the air was safe--even though they knew it wasn't--subjecting hundreds of people to unnecessary, debilitating ailments.

Sierra Club , EPA

76. The Bush Administration created a massive tax loophole for SUVs--allowing, for example, the write-off of the entire cost of a new Hummer.

Source: Washington Post

77. The Bush Administration put former coal-industry big shots in the government and let them roll back safety regulations, putting miners at greater risk of black lung disease.

Source: New York Times

78. The Bush Administration said that even though the weed killer atrazine was seeping into water supplies--creating, among other bizarre creatures, hermaphroditic frogs--there was no reason to regulate it.

Source: Washington Post

79. The Bush Administration has proposed cutting the budget of the Environmental Protection Agency by $600 million next year.

Source: ems.org

80. President Bush broke his campaign promise to end the maintenance backlog at national parks. He has provided just 7 percent of the funds needed, according to National Park Service estimates.

Source: bushgreenwatch.org

RIGHTS AND LIBERTIES

81. Since 9/11, Attorney General John Ashcroft has detained 5,000 foreign nationals in antiterrorism sweeps; none have been convicted of a terrorist crime.

Source: hrwatch.org

82. The Bush Administration ignored pleas from the International Committee of the Red Cross to stop the abuse of prisoners in US custody.

Source: Wall Street Journal

83. In violation of international law, the Bush Administration hid prisoners from the Red Cross so the organization couldn't monitor their treatment.

Source: hrwatch.org

84. The Bush Administration, without ever charging him with a crime, arrested US citizen José Padilla at an airport in Chicago, held him on a naval brig in South Carolina for two years, denied him access to a lawyer and prohibited any contact with his friends and family.

Source: news.findlaw.com

85. President Bush's top legal adviser wrote a memo to the President advising him that he can legally authorize torture.

Source: news.findlaw.com

86. At the direction of Bush Administration officials, the FBI went door to door questioning people planning on protesting at the 2004 political conventions.

Source: New York Times

87. The Bush Administration refuses to support the creation of an independent commission to investigate the abuse of foreign prisoners in American custody. Instead, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld selected the members of a commission to review the conduct of his own department.

Source: humanrightsfirst.org

FLIP FLOPS

88. President Bush opposed the creation of the 9/11 Commission before he supported it, delaying an essential inquiry into one of the greatest intelligence failure in American history.

Source: americanprogressaction.org

89. President Bush said gay marriage was a state issue before he supported a constitutional amendment banning it.

Sources: CNN.com, White House

90. President Bush said he was committed to capturing Osama bin Laden "dead or alive" before he said, "I truly am not that concerned about him."

Source: americanprogressaction.org

91. President Bush said we had found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, before he admitted we hadn't found them.

Sources: White House, americanprogress.org

92. President Bush said, "You can't distinguish between Al Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror," before he admitted Saddam had no role in 9/11.

Sources: White House, Washington Post

BIOGRAPHY

93. George Bush didn't come close to meeting his commitments to the National Guard. Records show he performed no service in a six-month period in 1972 and a three-month period in 1973.

Source: boston.com

94. In June 1990 George Bush violated federal securities law when he failed to inform the SEC that he had sold 200,000 shares of his company, Harken Energy. Two months later the company reported significant losses and by the end of that year the stock had dropped from $3 to $1.

Source: The Guardian

95. When asked at an April 2004 press conference to name a mistake he made during his presidency, Bush couldn't think of one.

Source: White House

SECRECY

96. The Bush Administration refuses to release twenty-seven pages of a Congressional report that reportedly detail the Saudi Arabian government's connections to the 9/11 hijackers.

Source: Philadelphia Inquirer

97. Last year the Bush Administration spent $6.5 billion creating 14 million new classified documents and securing old secrets--the highest level of spending in ten years.

Source: openthegovernment.org

98. The Bush Administration spent $120 classifying documents for every $1 it spent declassifying documents.

Source: openthegovernment.org

99. The Bush Administration has spent millions of dollars and defied numerous court orders to conceal from the public who participated in Vice President Cheney's 2001 energy task force.

Source: Washington Post

100. The Bush Administration--reversing years of bipartisan tradition--refuses to answer requests from Democratic members of Congress about how the White House is spending taxpayer money.

Source: Washington Post

OPINION

If the past informs the future, four more years of the Bush Administration will be a tragic period in the history of the United States and the world.

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about
Judd Legum

Judd Legum is deputy research director of strategic communications at the American Progress Action Fund.
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Privacy Policy	Copyright © 2004 The Nation


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## nockbuster (Oct 17, 2004)

more facts
http://www.doyouknow.org/


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Id say soemthing but your wired to differently to understand, so i wont.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

mr.trooper said:


> Id say soemthing but your wired to differently to understand, so i wont.


Different, perhaps. Right? You bet ya.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Sure.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Oh come on. This is all I get? An "I would but I won't"? There are some pretty legitimate points here, and some that are not. I was hoping to get something going here.

BTT

RC
The thinker.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Robert
You asked for so many points to be addressed at one time that it looked like work and not fun. I think mr troopers point is if your mind is made up why beat a dead horse. If there was something to be gained perhaps, but then again that isn't realistic is it? I know I felt overwhelmed by bull droppings.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

My observation would be that most of the sources would say Bush is from Mars with a straight face they are so blatantly biased and the remaining supposedly conservative sources are probably being quoted out of context ( not by Robert but by the author of the article). I 've become so leery of believing anything the mainstream press says that if they reported it was raining I'd have to be wet before I believed it.
Plainsmans right though looking up and reading each article is too much work.

Plainsman what kind of trailer did you buy, and why did you choose it?


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Bob

I had a 6 X 10 and it was great. I did decide however that a bigger one would do even more. I purchased a 7 X 14 with a 4 foot wedge nose for a total of 18 feet long. This lets me transport 16 foot boards. I also ordered it one foot taller so that I could get a ramp door 6 feet 6 inches. I want to buy a Polaris Ranger in the future and the roll bars are higher than normal doors.

I ordered it with a rock guard, one vent in the rear, and a power vent in the front. I also ordered it insulated and with two windows 15X30 inches. Oh, also an insulated camper type side door.

I plan to make a small table with stove in the nose so I can cook in it. That is the reason for the power front vent. I am carpeting it today.

My plan is to haul with it, use it as a hunting camper, and to also install six ice house holes in the floor. I can stay warm ice fishing by pushing 10 inc pvc pipe through the hole to the ice. It has torsion suspension so I will only have to lift the fish about eight or ten inches.

The brand is Royal Cargo and I purchased it from Cargo Pro in Goshen, Indiana. I saved a couple thousand ordering it from them and going after it. It is a tandem axel with 7000lb carry capacity.

I probably will not camp in it next week end, but I will have it out at the end of the trail in my brother-in-laws pasture, overlooking the river valley. Coffee will always be on, and cookies, apples, and jerky will be abundant. I may just spend the deer season sitting in an easy chair outside the door, with a warm drink in my hand and three or four rifles on bipods sitting at the edge of the hill.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

I will agree that is a bit overwhelming, but there is substance there. MT gets knocked for spewing and not backing it up. I have spewed and backed it up. Yes, some has been definitely taken out of context. And I doubt the validity of some of it as well. However, if you want me to believe in the credibility of your sources, then you have to put SOME faith in "mine". Otherwise there is no debate/discussion.

I say this, you say my sources are bunk.

You say that, I say your sources are bunk.

Where is the thought in that.

What does it take for you believe any of the "other" point of view? It is so quickly dismissed as partisan rhetoric. One knee-jerk deserves another perhaps?

I am really trying to see all sides now. I realize that I have been put in blinders by the spin doctors and their propaganda machines. I want to take my blinders off. But not until you take off yours.

Arghhh!

RC
Who is putting off studying for tomorrow's calculus exam. So please keep the replies coming!

:wink:


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Robert

Don't give me a guilt trip now, go study your calculus. In college, I don't know how old you are, but I admire your willingness to look at other viewpoints. I wasn't kidding about calculus, I want you to be well educated, successful , and productive tax paying conservative. In other words I am wishing you all the best.

If you read my posts I don't use many sources. I would rather talk about how I feel, and how I have come to those decisions.

I am as influenced by what people do wrong as by what they do right. For me the liberals have lost credibility. I will use MT as an example. He jumped right on those papers about Bush in the National Guard only to have egg on his face. The egg was also on Dan Rather's (spelling?) and the others we found were involved. Then the story just went away. Why? For me there is only one plausible explanation. Liberal media bias. Strike one.

Then Mt jumped on the rumors about the draft. Bush was not asking for the draft, but two democrats were, and Kerry was trumpeting it to the media. Again, I think this was a simple but dishonest political ploy. That leaves MT, Kerry, and others involved with egg on their face again. Strike two.

Bush was wired I think came next. I really don't think that was worth arguing about. I am surprised that a man in his position isn't wired more. I think this was simply grasping at straws, but perhaps was more childish than dishonest. Strike 2.25

I don't know if I can remember them all. Which came next? Oh, in among the other silly ones was Cheney will attack America if we vote for Kerry. That was to stupid to hold against anyone so we will remain ant Strike 2.25 for a while.

Oh ya, the IED fiasco. Guess who was in the lead on this mindless chatter on this web site. Political genius and commentator MT. MT has become like a canary in the mines. He is my early warning system. It is nearly unnecessary to investigate beyond MT's opinion. If he thinks it is good it must be bad, and if he thinks its bad there is a 90% chance it is good. Anyway, Kerry put down the integrity of our president, our nation, and our troops. It also looks like they were long gone when we arrived. It also falls in with how he treated his fellow soldiers in the past. It all fits. This was a lack of character again. Strike five or six for this one.

Anyway, Robert we are a product of who we believe. I don't believe the republicans all the time, but the democrats have in my way of thinking been consistent liars. I can't trust a liar. It's like the old thing with Clinton, I don't care what he did with Monica, but don't lie to me. Although I can forgive him for lying to Hilary. I can almost imagine that thing coming at me in the dark with a clever. To me that woman is scary, right out of an Alfred Hitchcock movie.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

I am 32 by the way.

May I start by saying that Kerry is a douchebag. But a lesser one in my point of view.

No guilt intended and my post really wasn't aimed at you. I am just saying one can't be well informed if one only hears one side. The current state of affairs has people hearing only their side.

Kerry spouts about the draft. Cheney spouts that we face attack if the wrong choice is made. That is a wash.

The Cheney attacks America came from The Onion. It is a satire/comedy paper that has been around forever. It is to be taken as humor. They have plenty of material on Kerry too. Just trying to loosen the mood.

I was appalled by the CBS papers thing too.

The jury is still out on the IED thing. There is some interesting footage from the Mpls station concerning this.

Conspiracy theories abound on both sides of the issues.

I am studying to be an environmental engineer. So unless the right places the environment a little higher on the list, I doubt I will be a productive tax paying conservative, just conservative on mother nature, that's all.

RC


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

"The Cheney attacks America came from The Onion. It is a satire/comedy paper that has been around forever. It is to be taken as humor. They have plenty of material on Kerry too. Just trying to loosen the mood. "

Actually it was derived from actual comments Cheney made about the US going under attack unless Bush is at the helm, the onion then took it further saying that Cheney had threatened the US himself.

"I don't know if I can remember them all. Which came next? Oh, in among the other silly ones was Cheney will attack America if we vote for Kerry. That was to stupid to hold against anyone so we will remain ant Strike 2.25 for a while. "

Your inability to read, and yet proficiency with writing is a marvel of modern science Plainsman.

I never stated that Bush had asked for a draft, but that he would likely support one. It was brought up by two dems to bring it to the nations attention, the republicans shot it down before it could get much air time, I find that worrysome.

The double standards that you take part in sicken me Plainsman. I told you that I stopped bringing facts to the table (direct quotes that is) because you right wingers ignore them like there is no tomorrow. I was chewed out for this, being told that I just couldn't back it up. Now you state the same thing and its hunky dorey. Now, when Robert brings facts to the table you ignore them again.


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## Robert A. Langager (Feb 22, 2002)

Plainsman said:


> Oh ya, the IED fiasco. Guess who was in the lead on this mindless chatter on this web site. Political genius and commentator MT. MT has become like a canary in the mines. He is my early warning system. It is nearly unnecessary to investigate beyond MT's opinion. If he thinks it is good it must be bad, and if he thinks its bad there is a 90% chance it is good.


This comes back to what I have been saying as one knee-jerk deserves another. Sure MT is a bit over the top at times. But he does make some good points.

I used to think you and Bobm were the same way. Although there are others here that are. Until I sat and really read what you had to say. To take the opposite side based on solely on the messenger is not good.

Right?

RC


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## seabass (Sep 26, 2002)

> I wasn't kidding about calculus, I want you to be well educated, successful , and productive tax paying conservative.


Plainsman, I think you and mony other conservatives on this site should read the book by Garrison Keillor, _Homegrown Democrat_ for some additional perspective. For those who don't know, Mr. Keillor is a MN native and the host of the famous "Prairie Home Companion" on Minnesota Public Radio.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Robert

I find it hard to argue with you, you have different points, but a fair and level head.

I think on the IED thing there is much evidence already presented and it really smells. The jury may still be out, but I think the verdict is a slam dunk.

Anyway, I'm sure happy to talk with you. I wish we could have began this dialogue about a month ago. As much as I want Bush to win if he does I will feel badly that things didn't go your way.

I too am concerned about the lack of attention to the environment. It is one of my beefs with the republican party, but as I have stated in the past I am confident that nature will survive Bush longer than my firearms will survive Kerry. I think my assessment of the lesser of to poor situations fits your mindset also, does it not?

MT, I don't disagree with you simply to disagree with you. It is just that you support things that I think drag America into a dark land of no morals. I also see your attitude towards taxes, the war, education, abortion, and gay marriage totally against every fiber of my being. Your in college, you want more money for education. Tax dollars are wasted on the war etc. Does this not mean that you simply want tax dollars used for your immediate benefit at the expense of the future. It is why I said you were being cheap on another form. I was probing your mindset looking for motivation. What drives your ideas about taxes, education, war. I suspected that it was as simple as you wanted more, and let everyone else pay for it. Take a serious look and tell me it doesn't look that way. I'm not saying your not welcome on the site, I am trying to drive you to the mirror of self image. Tell me what you see. I know I am being rough on you, but the way you dish it out I assume you can also take it.

MT
You may notice how I treat different people differently. I simply let them set the tone of our dialogue. You may also notice how I have not tried to be as partisan with Robert. I am willing to do the same with you , but you will have to reciprocate.


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## Bobm (Aug 26, 2003)

The problem for all of us is that many formerly respected news sources have been proven liars NY Times for instance same with CBS. I just am not going to believe anything they say from now on thats contrary to my life experience without additional verification from other sources.
The internet, talk radio, and other sources have given us all a means to check same with foreign news sources ect. and that proven to cripple the mainstream medias former strangle hold on our perceptions. Which hopefully will eventually force them to straighten up or go out of business. PBS and Fox are much more reliable and truthful sources, then the networks.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

"but as I have stated in the past I am confident that nature will survive Bush longer than my firearms will survive Kerry"--Thats what iv been thinking too Plains. At the verry, verry LEAST we are going to see that horrid so-called Assault weapons ban again. And probaby in a stronger form. if this happens then my chief hunting arm (SKS) will likely be going out the window, an into the arms of the FEDS. :crybaby:

i hear ya bob. i have had a hard time believing anything i hear on the Tube since the last election was over. the NY times and Dan Rather have only cemented that belief.


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## Militant_Tiger (Feb 23, 2004)

No worries trooper the sks doesnt look too evil. I concur, the AWB was stupid, but I feel that there are far greater issues at the table right now. We can always get the firearm rights back later (such as the sunset of the AWB) but if we get the economy in any more of a hole its to be a long, long time before we get back out, and the soldiers we lose in Iraq won't ever be comming back.


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## sdeprie (May 1, 2004)

Robert, I tried to read your lengthy message and simply could not get through it. I will have to say simply that I know the Bush is not perfect. No one is. My personal opinion is that he is by far the best choice for reasons I have stated before, he is resolute and he sticks to his morals. As I read some of those "facts", it struck me that they may be facts. Your assumption is that whatever they were pointing out was wrong. You had 100 points, no way am I going to address that many. #1 is listed as a fact. It is in fact an opinion. That opinion is based on the opinion that we should not have gone to war, so it becomes a war of choice. We could argue about the many reasons for going to war, but if you have already made up your mind about that one, then there is no sense in arguing the point. I am simply too tired and do not have the energy. I have already worked 8 loooong hours taking of psychiatric patients who have done nothing but verbally abuse me and act childish. And I have to go back tonight at midnight and do it all again. I have already voted, so I plan on spending the next 2-3 days chasing Bambi. (He was a buck, you know  )

Bobm, I'm up to about 30 arrows in a paper plate at 30 yds before I miss. I hope I'm ready.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

i concure MT: the economy should be doing better than it is. i dont think its all THAT bad, compared to sometimes in the past, but yes we should be doing better for America. im verry sorry that Bush hasnt been able to properly adress this in his administration. This war in iraq is mucking things up. We shuld have squashed saddam when we had the chance. in my mind, tat was Bush SR and Clinton's bigest SNAFU. :eyeroll:

i heartily admit that i disagree with Bush on several points. i dont blindly follow him or any other man for that matter. BUT i see Bush's Charactor, and he is a good honest man. he is trying to run things the best way he knows how, with this war and all the domestic strife. Thats why he gets my vote.


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