# what is the big deal



## dlip (May 16, 2004)

Just a few weeks ago, I was reading some different threads. In almost every thread I read, something would come up to where a resident of North Dakota would start dissin and runnin down the non residents. I am not from North Dakota but would love to hunt there. Here in oklahoma, we have some top waterfowling spots so there are naturally going to be Non residents, and with non residents come the few bad apples. I still dont see why people on this site have to attack non residents, from what i have observed in the field there are more non resident hunters that respect the land and respect the law than there are residents, which that is just my opinion, we all need to cool it down a little, and im sure i will get some heated replies, but im going to stay open minded


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

This issue has been talked about so much over the years...

It's kinda like a good athletic rival or something, just protecting the turf/land. A great deal of hate is felt if your a NR. I don't think NR should feel ashamed of hunting ND for what ever they decide to hunt, just respect what this great state has to offer if you one of the wknd warriors.

Good hunting and try to stay warm!


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## curty (Sep 18, 2003)

dlip I agree, a thread could be started about hunting or picking field rocks and it will still become a res non res issue. It gets old so fast.


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## kingme88 (Sep 22, 2004)

I feel that many of the Residents on this site don't own any land. This is why they pick on NR's because they have some competition. If you own your own piece of land or your family does its no problem hunting. Land owners take care of their own. Freelancers are Freeloaders???


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## drjongy (Oct 13, 2003)

I certainly do not think there is "hate" towards non-residents by most resident hunters of ND...perhaps by a vocal minority on this site there is, but not in general.

I do want to protect my "turf" as much as possible, but I also keep in mind that I use the resources of other states in this great region of the country.

:withstupid:


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Evidently king, you must not have competition wherever you live, or you own the the honey-hole of all honey-holes.

It goes way beyond competition, this trend of rape and pillage is driving hunting into a money grab!! Ask any resident hunter on this site if they have not lost a friend(landowner) and land to hunt on for people who are now charging for access.

Get a friggin' clue, we are all losing, it is just a matter of time and you can't play if you won't pay!!

Freeloaders? Jerkwad??


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## Remmi_&amp;_I (Dec 2, 2003)

This NR vs. R conversation is never productive. Too bad we don't have a screen in place that once this conversations breaks out you get directed to one of the 10,000 previous posts on this topic.

If these threads do continue, let's try to make it more productive by discussing legal/conservation issues rather than I hate NR or I hate R hunters.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

It really doesn't matter where you come from if you are respectful. We sat and talked to some guys from Missouri on Friday night. They were real nice guys. We were watching a feed of mallards and canadas and they were watching it down the road a little ways. No big deal. We drove down and asked them if they were planning on hunting it. They said no we only hunt the water. I said "guys you're missing out not hunting the fields for ducks."

He said they like to kick them all off the water and then hunt them when they come back. He said they were waiting for these birds to go back to water so they could hunt it in the morning. I didn't even bother trying to explain what they were doing, it wasn't going to matter anyway. They said they had come to ND for something like 11 years and never once had they hunted a field. I guess thats fine if that's what you want to do.

There were some good numbers of ducks in that area Friday and Saturday. By Sunday there were hardly any birds in the area according to my buddies that went out. Why?

Within a mile and a half from where we hunted there were 5 sloughs no bigger than most peoples front yard that a person could have shot 5 limits of greenheads off of. All morning long small flocks of ducks came off the big water and worked into them while we were field hunting. Was there anyone hunting them. Nope. Busy playing with duck boats. Why? :eyeroll:


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

> It really doesn't matter where you come from if you are respectful.


Really doesn't matter where you are either. Just came back from a week is Sask. By mid-week, a secondary but very large body of water was holding about 50k snows and several thousand ducks. These birds were patterning well for feeds in the immediate area.......until a photographer from a wildlife organization to remain un-named and from a state to remain un-named decided to tool out into it with his boat to shoot his 8 ducks, including a bull can. Great deal for him, really bad deal for the 4-5 groups that were hunting those birds. The roost filled up with about half the birds a couple of days later, only to be emptied again by another single hunter, shore hunting this time. Another roost shooting ruined a morning hunt for the landowner we stayed with. Legal yes, but unfortunate and selfish as heck. I think it goes well beyond "...we had no idea..."


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

> kingme88 Posted: 18 Oct 2004 03:03 Post subject:
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I feel that many of the Residents on this site don't own any land. This is why they pick on NR's because they have some competition. If you own your own piece of land or your family does its no problem hunting. Land owners take care of their own. Freelancers are Freeloaders???


Freelancers are freeloaders? what? So you have to pay money to hunt.
This is the mentality that is ruining the tradition of hunting. Soon there will be no true hunters, just shooters. Every animal with a pulse/heart beat, will have a price tag around its neck. The future is doomed.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

GG
I agree. All these folks should leave their duck boats and water decoys at home. They should field hunt exclusively. Field hunts are great fun, and much safer. Only a moron would go freeze their butt on a boat.

Dan,
To be totally impassive, that's due to a competition for a scarce resouce. Someone got their canvasback, others didn't. But you are making what's called the fundamental attribution error - you are assigning blame to the person (bad personality, motives, selfish etc) rather than the situation. People do it all the time - leads to wars, stereotypes, most of societies evils.... You got burned in the competition, so the other person must be selfish? It's the pressure. (You'll now have another way to explain your legislative goals related to pressure and numbers.) ;-)

dlip
As for NR's continually raising the NR issue - why? What do you hope to gain? An apology? Some sympathy? It doesn't appear to be to gain some better understanding of the issue. The basic facts are: 1) there is great competition for a scarce/limited publically owned commodity, 2) a quickly growing source of that competition comes from NR's, 3) competition for a scarce commodity if bad for those who wish to use that commodity. (see above).

It's nothing personal (NR's) - I don't know you personally, and anyone making a post about NR's probably doesn't either. Indeed, there are lots of posts about how great some NR's are personally - everyone knows and likes a NR wfowler. But that doesn't change the facts outlined above, neither does telling us how bad things are back home. In the current poitical climate you shouldn't be shocked by someone villanizing NR's, that's what happens in every US v. THEM competition. Simply a way folks rationalize and work with all this uncertainly and competition. Makes a grey world seem black and white. (see above). Hope this helps you understand the world a little better.

M.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

MRN,
Now why would you want to describe yourself as a moron? :wink: You know as well as I do that there are just as productive ways to hunt the water without being on the roost. These methods include getting your decoys wet and your waders wet up to your knee. They do require a little work to walk in the slough though. We will never agree on this subject untill you sell your boat. 

Yes, we are all chasing a limited resource. The hunt the roost method with a boat is much more consumptive of the resource than field hunting. I guarantee you that when I hunt fields I don't scare any birds when I set up. Yes I scare some ducks when I shoot at them maybe even kill a few but if they decide not to come back to my spot then I have harmed nothing. I haven't even disrupted the hunters in the field down the road.

You can justify the psychology of it if you want or even the economics of the limited resource. You can't have any economic theory with out that wonderful psychological motivation.

I guess I was hoping that duck hunting could be a little less selfish than the rest of the things that motivate us in life. I guess I was wrong. I suppose I should just follow the economic theory and fully understand the motivation of the boat hunter.


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

I hate non-residents. Especially when I'm in Minnesota.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

GG,

Do you think I get cold?

I understand your need to villanize folks who do things different from you. I blame it on the educational system and your cohort, you, personally, are fine. Even more, I understand your need to believe that you exert absolutely no pressure on the birds - pressure is the enemy, so you must have no part of it either. Doubt its true.

Consider: feeding considerations are paramount in a duck's life, closely paralleled by safety factors. Do you think the roost site affects feeding site, or feeding site affects roost site? You believe only the former is true. Instead, ducks have been called "the ultimate little sampling machines". They gather as much food as possible, while expending the least energy, and maintaining safety. You have one corner of the field with more grain, they are there. You shoot it, they have lost the safety there. Shoot all the "feedable and safe" fields and the reason for roosting wherever they did is gone. They move on to safer fields and another big lake so they can park in the middle a mile from shore. I don't think field hunters are anymore blameless in the pressure equation than anyone else that puts 30 or 40 man/hours of pressure on the birds a week. Perhaps the best, most equitable solution is to limit the number of days that any single person is allowed put pressure on the birds? No one should be selfish, right?

Please, convince me otherwise.

NJS 
I hate everyone - simplifies the situation. (apologies to General Puller).

M.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

MRN,
How could you blame me for villanizing others, its as natural to me as you psychologically analyzing everything I write. But thats not really the issue.

I already give up 5 days a week. How much more do I have to give up to relieve the pressure? In fact in the last 2 weeks I only hunted 3 days. How much more of a sacrifice do I have to make?

Would I be considered racist if I hated everyone equally? I promise you I dislike all waterfowlers the same.

What's the most important part of the pyramid a can't recall right now? Food or shelter or social interaction? Something? Should I blame the student or the prof for my lack of understanding? Who to villanize these days I can't be sure.

I think I'll stick to the boat hunters. I find it easier to simplify the world than to examine it and change my perspective. 

I think that makes me openly ignorant.


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## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

MRN

MRN when both food source and resting area's get disturbed the birds move. In the past I hunted some of the same birds very hard. Four to five days a week for two weeks late in the season. Food sources where such they had other choices. This made hunting them easier because the next day we would set up in the general direction they where headed and draw them in because of the social nature of the birds.

All went well until a couple of guys set up on the roost and shot them coming and going. My theory is that they would not have left the area had the water been left alone. I have watched many times this happen even this past weekend where a couple guys set up in a field mid day. The ducks had fed until 1-2 pm and where in no mood to go out to feed. So they drove the 4 wheeler down and drove around the slough. 4000+ ducks where moved off the water and have not returned. Yet they had been hunted for the past week most every place they went.

So because of years of watching and seeing and even doing I can say that roosts undisturbed balance out the pressure in the fields, but having both most certainly will send them looking for a new place to sleep and loaf.


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## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

MRN,


> But you are making what's called the fundamental attribution error - you are assigning blame to the person (bad personality, motives, selfish etc) rather than the situation.


I was thinking more like the alpha baboon sitting on the pile of elephant droppings. He can only eat a little, but he damn sure won't share it.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

GG,

Fun isn't it.... ;-)

As for the actual meat of the discussion, too bad Bobby Cox is banned from the site - he knows more about this pressure stuff than anyone.

M.


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## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

MRN said:


> Dan,To be totally impassive, that's due to a competition for a scarce resouce. Someone got their canvasback, others didn't. But you are making what's called the fundamental attribution error - you are assigning blame to the person (bad personality, motives, selfish etc) rather than the situation. People do it all the time - leads to wars, stereotypes, most of societies evils.... You got burned in the competition, so the other person must be selfish? It's the pressure. (You'll now have another way to explain your legislative goals related to pressure and numbers.) ;-)


Around here with the pressure of the last several years, I agree - desperate times incite desperate measures and some will to take their best opps where they can, regardless the consequences to others. Explicable, but not justified.

Where we were in Sask, however, the pressure was moderate and with any scouting other great opps existed for every flavor of waterfowl that didn't involve shooting up these large roosts. No, they were both just easily discovered and accessible and represented what appeared to be easy pickings. And the conserv. org. guy, of all people, should have known better. Tens of thousands of birds moved, all for his 8 ducks. And, after shooting this roost? He packed up that afternoon and headed hours away.

We weren't affected, hunting other roosts each time. Others were.


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