# The Difference between a Republican and a Democrat



## MOB

A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person. The Republican gave the homeless person his business card and told him to come to his business for a job. He then took twenty dollars out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person.

The Democrat was very impressed, and when they came to another homeless person, he decided to help. He walked over to the homeless person and gave him directions to the welfare office. He then reached into the Republican's pocket and got out twenty dollars. He kept $15 for administrative fees and gave the homeless person five.

Now you know the difference.

:beer:


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## Militant_Tiger

Here is my version

A conservative is walking down the street and see a hobo. The conservative comments on how much he hates the scum of our society such as this hobo, and how he brought about his own problems and said that it wasn't his fault, thus he shouldn't be helped.

Now can we please get off how you view yourselves (quite incorrectly I might add) and get back onto problems that actually matter?


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## MOB

Please continue with your view of the second half of the story.


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## Militant_Tiger

MOB said:


> Please continue with your view of the second half of the story.


I'm really not sure, it certainly isin't universal among liberals. We have this wonderful ability where we can make our own decisions.


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## golfer

Liberal side--What hobo? I see nothing. :fiddle:


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## MOB

It must be hard to see anything through those rose colored glasses while drifting through fantasy land.


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## buckseye

one counts your money with his left hand and the other counts your money with his right hand


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## Militant_Tiger

I'm always in shock how little people want to contribute to society, and yet when they have to pay for it in the long run they complain then too.


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## buckseye

:withstupid: :toofunny:


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## huntin1

Militant_Tiger said:


> I'm always in shock how little people want to contribute to society, and yet when they have to pay for it in the long run they complain then too.


I'm always in shock about how often you bring this up, but when asked point blank about what you are doing to contribute to society, you dance around the question and never give a clear answer.

MOB: I like your version, the sad thing is, in most cases it is true.

huntin1


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## Militant_Tiger

> I'm always in shock about how often you bring this up, but when asked point blank about what you are doing to contribute to society, you dance around the question and never give a clear answer.


What exactly should I be doing at the age of 16? I don't suggest that you have to be willing to do community service, just that you must be willing to pay taxes for program which aid those who are worse off than you. The more of those people who you get working, the cheaper the program is, the better the economy is and the eaiser living is for everyone.



> It must be hard to see anything through those rose colored glasses while drifting through fantasy land.


It must be hard trying to walk with that swanky set of blinders on.


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## indsport

"A Republican and a Democrat were walking down the street when they came to a homeless person. The Republican gave the homeless person his business card and told him to come to his business for a job. He then took twenty dollars out of his pocket and gave it to the homeless person."

The homeless person goes to the republican's business and files an application and is rejected due to his lack of education. Next, he goes to the homeless shelter and finds the doors closed due to Republican tax cuts resulted in funding cuts for the shelter. Next, he goes to the local school to get the education to get the job and finds there are no spaces for him due to republican tax cuts. He goes to a restaurant but it is populated with Republicans with money and is thrown out. So he donates his money to the Democrats.

As Paul Harvey would say, now you know the rest of the story.


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## Bobm

> The homeless person goes to the republican's business and files an application and is rejected due to his lack of education


.
And why does he lack education??? because he made the choice not to apply himself in the free school system paid for by Largely by Republican tax dollars. So its his own fault.



> Next, he goes to the homeless shelter and finds the doors closed due to Republican tax cuts resulted in funding cuts for the shelter.


Homeless shelters are everywhere and tax cuts have historically resulted in increased total tax revenues because of the additional economic activeity they spur.



> Next, he goes to the local school to get the education to get the job and finds there are no spaces for him due to republican tax cuts.[/


quote]

Show me one kid that has been turned away from public school ever thats typical of the democrat distortion and BS about the true problems in this country

[/quote]


> He goes to a restaurant but it is populated with Republicans with money and is thrown out.


If he has money he can eat anywhere he wants.



> So he donates his money to the Democrats.


Heres Democrat logic homeless and donating money... huh....

Evryone in this country baring some physicall calamity is right where they are because of the decisions thay have made all their life and if they don't like where they are they need only to look at themselves to see who is to blame


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## Militant_Tiger

> And why does he lack education??? because he made the choice not to apply himself in the free school system paid for by Largely by Republican tax dollars. So its his own fault.


Republican tax dollars? I wasn't aware that the republicans paid the majority of the taxes, maybe this is why you ***** so much about paying for public services. Schools have been terribly underfunded in recent years, and they are showing it. Schools can barely afford paper and the advanced schools are being shut down frequently. How is it that you can't see that education is the most important and rewarding investment? Maybe this is because you rely on ignorance for recruitment into your party.



> Show me one kid that has been turned away from public school ever thats typical of the democrat distortion and BS about the true problems in this country


Schools will turn kids away for overcrowding, there are more and more kids but no money for new schools.



> Evryone in this country baring some physicall calamity is right where they are because of the decisions thay have made all their life and if they don't like where they are they need only to look at themselves to see who is to blame


Isin't that just the conservative way, you dug your own grave, damned if I'm gonna help you get out.


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## MOB

Why is it that everything bad that happens is always someone elses fault? Why is it that today nobody can be responsible for their own actions? Too many shady lawyers maybe?
I would like to see one true example of where a student was turned away from any public school because of overcrowding.


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## Bobm

> I would like to see one true example of where a student was turned away from any public school because of overcrowding.


Me too it doesn't exist, federal law prohibits it, nothing MT says makes any sense but he does provide some comic relief. I bet the libs cringe when he starts arguning their causes :lol: :lol:


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## Militant_Tiger

MOB said:


> Why is it that everything bad that happens is always someone elses fault? Why is it that today nobody can be responsible for their own actions? Too many shady lawyers maybe?
> I would like to see one true example of where a student was turned away from any public school because of overcrowding.


It is not your fault because someone is poor or homeless, but it is your duty as an American to help them to achieve the comforts and level of success that you have.

As to being turned away from schools, I spoke to a student today who has personally seen people being turned away from his high school due to overcrowding. You are welcome to believe what you choose, I wouldn't expect you to know these kinds of things considering where you live.


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## Bobm

> As to being turned away from schools, I spoke to a student today who has personally seen people being turned away from his high school due to overcrowding.


That not what we said, we said give us an example of someone that cannot get an education, not a particular school. Its NEVER Happened and you are full of you know what :lol: I knew you wouldn't be able to, I love it.


> You are welcome to believe what you choose, I wouldn't expect you to know these kinds of things considering *where you live*.


The USA where do you live?


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## Militant_Tiger

> That not what we said, we said give us an example of someone that cannot get an education, not a particular school. Its NEVER Happened and you are full of you know what I knew you wouldn't be able to, I love it.





> I would like to see one true example of where a student was turned away from any public school because of overcrowding.





> Show me one kid that has been turned away from public school ever thats typical of the democrat distortion and BS about the true problems in this country


Yeah, the joke is really on me.



> The USA where do you live?


Near a major city, I'm not sure about you Bob but I am refering to the people who live in more rural areas and haven't dealt with this sort of problem.


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## Bobm

But you must admit that the original point implied that students are prevented from getting an education because of "funding cuts" and that has never happened.


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## Militant_Tiger

Bobm said:


> But you must admit that the original point implied that students are prevented from getting an education because of "funding cuts" and that has never happened.


I understood that the original point was that the schools were still plenty capable of handling more students, and I pointed out that it is just not the case. We are bringing up a new stupid generation thanks to poorly paid teachers, large class sizes and lack of materials.


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## Bobm

ok, but that wasn't Insports point or if it was then I misunderstood it, the problems with schools are not what you say though.

Its societal, lack of teacher support from parents, disipline issues that didn't exist 40 years ago, a dumbing down of the curriculum due to political correctness ect. Classes in the school I went to were 50 students and we behaved because they would throw us out if we didn't, and our parents would beat the heck out of us if we acted up and we knew it.

Catholic shools consistantly turn out well educated kids because they aren't restricted by Fed Govt PC bs, and the parents are involved. You go to a PTA meeting and you can't get in the parking lot, at the public school the parking lot is near empty, teachers can't do much with this type of disinterest from parents at home much less the disipline problems that will land them in a law suit if they really do what they should.
I feel sorry for teachers today, although many of them have bought into a lot of the PC bs and brought it on themselves.


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## racer66

MT


> What exactly should I be doing at the age of 16?
> 
> He get's ticked when he is reminded he's 16, then he hides behind the fact he is 16. :eyeroll:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MT
> 
> 
> 
> It is not your fault because someone is poor or homeless, but it is your duty as an American to help them to achieve the comforts and level of success that you have.
Click to expand...

Why is it my DUTY to see that everyone else has the same comforts and level of succes as I. I worked my A$$ off for it and you want me to give it away, what a load of BS, what freakin planet are you from. Personally I wouldn't want to gain off of the backs of others, we certainly know which route you are willing to take. uke:


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## Militant_Tiger

> Its societal, lack of teacher support from parents, disipline issues that didn't exist 40 years ago, a dumbing down of the curriculum due to political correctness ect. Classes in the school I went to were 50 students and we behaved because they would throw us out if we didn't, and our parents would beat the heck out of us if we acted up and we knew it.


So the problem with education is the fault of the parents, that just doesn't make a lot of sense. As to the education being dumbed down, isin't it your party who wants to get rid of teaching evolution? You seem to be bothered by the student to teacher ratio, I am too. You see with the funding cuts put in place by this administration they can't afford to hire any more teachers, and even if they could they don't have the space to put them in.



> Catholic shools consistantly turn out well educated kids because they aren't restricted by Fed Govt PC bs, and the parents are involved.


Really? Everyone who I've met who attended a Catholic school ended up a narcissistic jerk who was completely ignorant of many of much of the world of science.



> Why is it my DUTY to see that everyone else has the same comforts and level of succes as I. I worked my A$$ off for it and you want me to give it away, what a load of BS, what freakin planet are you from. Personally I wouldn't want to gain off of the backs of others, we certainly know which route you are willing to take.


Because in a country such as America no one is allowed to die hungry and homeless on the streets. That isin't to say that it doesn't happen, but we do everything possible to prevent it. It is good that you've worked your butt off to get where you are, what if they did too but didn't make it? What if he was raised in a household which put no value on education? Do you say good riddance and let them rot?


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## golfer

Only 16 and already so bitter. I know many people who went to Catholic schools and they seem just fine to me. Not everyone is a jerk. :huh:


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## duketter

Militant_Tiger said:


> So the problem with education is the fault of the parents
> 
> 
> 
> 1/2 the problem easily. Kids are being allowed to do whatever they want these days. Why do kids bring weapons to school? Who is watching these kids at home and raising them? Who makes them go to school and DO their homework? How can a teacher make them learn? Also, no kid has not been able to attend school cause it was overcrowded. He may be moved to another school for these purposes but he wasn't kicked out of school.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really? Everyone who I've met who attended a Catholic school ended up a narcissistic jerk who was completely ignorant of many of much of the world of science.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Everyone? Ignorance right there. Have you actually even met someone that went to Catholic school?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because in a country such as America no one is allowed to die hungry and homeless on the streets. That isin't to say that it doesn't happen, but we do everything possible to prevent it. It is good that you've worked your butt off to get where you are, what if they did too but didn't make it? What if he was raised in a household which put no value on education? Do you say good riddance and let them rot?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

So because we made it we have to help others out who won't even try? I agree to help people out in ways.....but the way you make it sound is for me to give them my whole paycheck (or at least half).


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## Militant_Tiger

> 1/2 the problem easily. Kids are being allowed to do whatever they want these days. Why do kids bring weapons to school? Who is watching these kids at home and raising them? Who makes them go to school and DO their homework? How can a teacher make them learn? Also, no kid has not been able to attend school cause it was overcrowded. He may be moved to another school for these purposes but he wasn't kicked out of school.


Considering that good Christian folk make up just over half of this country, why is this such a problem? How do you reccomend that we fix it?

As to overcrowding, I have already explained it. We were speaking of one specific school, not the system (at least thats what I got out of it).



> Everyone? Ignorance right there. Have you actually even met someone that went to Catholic school?


Naw, I'm just making it up. I grew up hanging out with a Catholic schooled kid who lives right down the street from me, he was never taught many of the major theories of science because he went to a strictly creationist school, he is also a narcissistic jerk.



> So because we made it we have to help others out who won't even try? I agree to help people out in ways.....but the way you make it sound is for me to give them my whole paycheck (or at least half).


How do you know they didn't try? Who are you to say that all of them are just lazy? It is your job as an American to make sure they are given the same chance to be prosperous that you were.


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## duketter

MT said: It is your job as an American to make sure they are given the same chance to be prosperous that you were.

How do we do this? With welfare programs?

MT said: Considering that good Christian folk make up just over half of this country, why is this such a problem? How do you reccomend that we fix it?

Good question...maybe tougher laws on parents? So they are held more accountable and then in turn "watch" their kids more.


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## gandergrinder

MT,
Why is it that some people are successful in life no matter where they started? Because they have motivation. You cannot legislate motivation but you can create policy that makes it easy for people to be lazy. This is wrong.

I know many people who have average intelligence but are very successful. They are motivated and have worked hard to get where they are.

I also know many people who are brilliant yet have done very little considering the intelligence they have. They are lazy and there is no govt program that is going to help them.


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## Militant_Tiger

Gander you do realize that the only cause for being in poverty is not being lazy right? You are simply taking a look at middle class whites, in which case yes that would be the major case. There are however many other people who do not fall into this category who are below the poverty line for other reasons.


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## gandergrinder

Please tell me what these "other reasons" are.

Please explain to me what being white and middle class has to do with anything.

Any person in this country can better their life but they have to make a decision that they want to have a better life.

Going to college is an option available to everyone if they want to work for it. You can also get loans to go to college from the, you guessed it, government.
And yes I believe this is a good use of tax money. You can also go to college without loans. I did and I paid for it myself.

The military is also a good option for those who would like to make a better life for themselves. My sister decided that was the best route for her. She has a pretty damn good lifestyle for a 22 year old but she works hard for it.

You can take two approaches to life. You can blame everyone else for the situation you are in and waste your energy doing it or you can take that energy and put it into something constructive and move forward.


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## zogman

Good response, GG. You are wise beyond your years. :beer: :beer:


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## racer66

Hit the nail on the head GG.


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## Militant_Tiger

I wouldn't expect you to be able to empathize. Simply try to understand that being born in a poor household, especially being born a minority puts you at a distinct disadvantage when looking for work or loans. Being white and middle class you were likely instilled with the thought that there is value in education, and you will have an easier time finding a job. There are two ways to live, you can either say "good riddance" to everyone who has failed in life, or you can give them a leg up.


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## buckseye

It don't matter what color you are out here in the sticks, if you prove yourself trustworthy and a hardworker you will be successfull. I think even though there is plenty of predijuce in the country we are able to see past the stereotype baloney faster. We are almost desperate for people out here and have to be forgiving and accepting. 8)


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## adokken

Buckeye I thought we were going to discourage any more applicants for residentcy here, I think we should adopt apolicy that two have to leave ND before one can come in. Just kidding of course. I will see you at your Unkle Franks funeral. Nice man another old timer gone .


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## gandergrinder

MT,


> There are two ways to live, you can either say "good riddance" to everyone who has failed in life, or you can give them a leg up.


Right now I'm working on my most important charity case, ME. If everyone did that then we wouldn't have any problems. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

We operate under a capitalist structure where the bourgeoisie (capitalists) employ the proletariat (working class) to earn profits. This system is called capitalism and it isn't changing anytime soon. You can preach all the socialist ideals you want but it is in direct conflict with the system we have in place.

Obviously you have a pretty good head on your shoulders. If you really are 16 like you say then you have a some time to study and learn. You need to understand how our economic system works so you can use it to your advantage. If your dream is to truelly help out people then you need to work within the economic structure we have in this country, make as much money as you can and use that to help people.

Most Dems, or socialists, as they are becoming in this country want to set up programs that support people for doing nothing but all that does is train them to be dependent. It sure as hell doesn't empower them.

Ok not all of you are socialists but by calling yourself a Democrat you openly admit you are closer to that line of thinking then the other way.


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## Militant_Tiger

> You can preach all the socialist ideals you want but it is in direct conflict with the system we have in place.





> If your dream is to truelly help out people then you need to work within the economic structure we have in this country, make as much money as you can and use that to help people.


Socialist my eye, you see being the prosperous nation that we are we have taken an oath to help those among us who need it. You can either help them to attain some level of success in life and boost the economy or you can let them rot on welfare and drain the economy. Either way you will pay for them, the only difference being that with the prior it helps you back with lower prices.



> Most Dems, or socialists, as they are becoming in this country want to set up programs that support people for doing nothing but all that does is train them to be dependent. It sure as hell doesn't empower them.


What do you suggest that we do to solve the problem? Do you not bother with them and eventually let the poverty eat them alive? I'll agree, I've seen communities that live off welfare and welfare alone. Thankfully these are small areas, and aren't very common. Welfare and programs similar to it rely on one principle, greed. Greed is the very ideal that capitalism is run on. Welfare is just enough to live on, the people will get greedy and want more than the base essientals, and they will get a job. If you can come up with a better system than mine, I'm all ears. Until that time, we will not let someone go hungry in this country. That simply isin't how America is run.



> Ok not all of you are socialists but by calling yourself a Democrat you openly admit you are closer to that line of thinking then the other way.


I suppose that by calling yourself a conservative you are closer to fascism than I, then again I don't toss that term around loosley (I save it for Plainsman).


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## duketter

MT, what is your recommendation for helping out these "poor, helpless" people? You think welfare programs work? You think we should have to donate money out of our checks each month? Should we all have to put money into a account so everyone can attend college? What is your ideal program to help these people?

Just giving them welfare checks doesn't work. You and I both know that these programs are taken advantage off dearly. The homeless man on the street who really could use the check doesn't get the money, and the person with 10 kids who should stop having kids keeps getting the cash. This isn't 100% of the case (I am sure you are going to call out stereotype too)....but the welfare program needs to be looked at and changed.

Why can't a kid born in a very poor household attend college and better himself? There are plenty of college loans out there to get. You make it sound like he is too poor to even attend school and better himself. Maybe they aren't taken the initiative to do this?


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## huntin1

gandergrinder said:


> Right now I'm working on my most important charity case, ME. If everyone did that then we wouldn't have any problems. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.


Amen to that. Lack of personal responsibility is a major problem in our society today.

huntin1


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## gandergrinder

> Socialist my eye, you see being the prosperous nation that we are we have taken an oath to help those among us who need it.


I am going to help those around me by being the best capitalist I can. I am going to work within the system to better myself and in the process I am going to do all kinds of wonderful things.

I am going to build roads, build schools, pay teachers, educate people. How I am going to do that? By paying taxes.



> You can either help them to attain some level of success in life and boost the economy or you can let them rot on welfare and drain the economy. Either way you will pay for them, the only difference being that with the prior it helps you back with lower prices.


I'd personally rather not pay for them at all and that's my main point. Its not my job to support everyone else. I don't believe in socialism. If I am going to work hard I think it should benefit me.



> Welfare and programs similar to it rely on one principle, greed. Greed is the very ideal that capitalism is run on. Welfare is just enough to live on, the people will get greedy and want more than the base essientals, and they will get a job.


Capitalism is based on individuals acting in their own self interest. I suppose you could call it greed. But welfare is a program designed by socialists. So as long as we are working within the capitalist structure now. Why don't we just take away the welfare system all together and then they will have to act in their best interest all the time by getting a job or they will simply starve. Starvation is a strong motivator.



> I suppose that by calling yourself a conservative you are closer to fascism than I, then again I don't toss that term around loosley (I save it for Plainsman).


You can throw around whatever terms you want about me. It doesn't really matter. In the morning I'll wake up and be the same person.


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## Militant_Tiger

> I am going to build roads, build schools, pay teachers, educate people. How I am going to do that? By paying taxes.


.. help the poor out with welfare. Indeed you are going to do many great things. I am sure that you will moan about every red cent they take though.



> I'd personally rather not pay for them at all and that's my main point. Its not my job to support everyone else. I don't believe in socialism. If I am going to work hard I think it should benefit me.


This is not the way a country such as America works. You see a fully capitalist society doesn't work. If you are doing fine but everyone else is poor the economy will take a dive, and your money with be all but worthless. If everyone is working and being productive products cost less, there are more job openings, and the nation becomes stronger. If you think this is socialist you really should move, its how America works.



> But welfare is a program designed by socialists. So as long as we are working within the capitalist structure now. Why don't we just take away the welfare system all together and then they will have to act in their best interest all the time by getting a job or they will simply starve. Starvation is a strong motivator.


Do you really think that a hobo can find a job with the snap of his fingers? Please tell me that you aren't that short sighted.



> You can throw around whatever terms you want about me. It doesn't really matter. In the morning I'll wake up and be the same person.


That has got to be one of the most hypocritical statements I've ever read.


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## gandergrinder

> I am sure that you will moan about every red cent they take though.


And people like you are always going to complain that I haven't given enough.



> If you think this is socialist you really should move, its how America works.


I know how America works. I like how it works most of the time but it can always work better. If you work hard you are rewarded. I think that's a pretty good system.

If your happy redistributing your wealth to everyone else you are perfectly within your right to do so. It's your money. Just don't try to implement laws that make me give up mine. I'm pretty sure I can allocate the resources better than the government.

MT- You don't have to be upset over the fact that you are a socialist. I don't think that it's a bad thing if you truelly believe in what you say. I can respect that view. I am a capitalist and we are never going to see the world the same way. That's cool.


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## Militant_Tiger

> If your happy redistributing your wealth to everyone else you are perfectly within your right to do so. It's your money. Just don't try to implement laws that make me give up mine. I'm pretty sure I can allocate the resources better than the government.


If you didn't have to pay any taxes we would have dirt roads, no police, raging wildfires and half the country wouldn't have a job. You know this just as well as I do. If you feel that keeping the economy aloft is worth less than the cash that is taken out of your paycheck so be it, but you will end up paying for it in the end anyway.



> MT- You don't have to be upset over the fact that you are a socialist. I don't think that it's a bad thing if you truelly believe in what you say. I can respect that view. I am a capitalist and we are never going to see the world the same way. That's cool.


I just think its pretty hilarious how you call me a socialist and when I call you a fascist you come back with the "I am rubber you are glue" attitude. It is rather evident that you still have some growing up to do.


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## gandergrinder

> I just think its pretty hilarious how you call me a socialist and when I call you a fascist you come back with the "I am rubber you are glue" attitude.


What? You can call me a fascist. My views are farther to the right than most people's. What I was trying to get at is that you calling me a fascist doesn't upset me nor should my calling you a socialist bother you.



> If you feel that keeping the economy aloft is worth less than the cash that is taken out of your paycheck so be it, but you will end up paying for it in the end anyway.


Your right. I am going to pay for it in the end. I just understand that having the govt. "help" me pay for it is an inefficient way of doing things. given that our system is based on capitalism. If our system was based on socialism then your system would work fine and I would agree with you.

I find your posts interesting because your thinking is so much different than mine. On the political spectrum our views are polar opposites. As always I find your views entertaining, I just don't necessarily agree with all of them. We both recognize the same problems we just have different ways of solving them. I think government allocation of resources is inefficent compared to letting the markets work.



> It is rather evident that you still have some growing up to do.


I would think that you telling me that I have to grow up falls under the same category as


> "I am rubber you are glue" attitude.


As long as we are pretending to be psychologists. I think you are still struggling to figure everything out. I think you realize that some of your views are inconsistent with the world around you. That's called growth.


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## Militant_Tiger

> As long as we are pretending to be psychologists. I think you are still struggling to figure everything out. I think you realize that some of your views are inconsistent with the world around you. That's called growth.


Inconsistent in that it doesn't agree with the majority of the views on here. Thats called an opinion, it may come as a shocker but not everyone becomes a conservative as they age.



> What? You can call me a fascist. My views are farther to the right than most people's. What I was trying to get at is that you calling me a fascist doesn't upset me nor should my calling you a socialist bother you.


Why does it upset me? Because it is petty and lacks basis.



> Your right. I am going to pay for it in the end. I just understand that having the govt. "help" me pay for it is an inefficient way of doing things. given that our system is based on capitalism. If our system was based on socialism then your system would work fine and I would agree with you.


How exactly would you pay for it?


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## Plainsman

Socialist my eye, you see being the prosperous nation that we are we have taken an oath to help those among us who need it.

We have? Please post that oath. I have never said it or signed it. I must have missed that one.

MT wrote:


> I suppose that by calling yourself a conservative you are closer tofascism than I, then again I don't toss that term around loosley (I save it for Plainsman


That doesn't make me feel to bad. Actually coming from you it was kind of funny, I enjoyed it. Like I have said before, I wear your ridicule like a badge of honor.

Everyone is a fascist in your socialist eyes MT. You know why you keep harping about helping? I would guess it is because you are planning on being a freeloader.

My family didn't have squat MT and I went to college on loans. Took me ten years to pay them back. That and medical bills up the wazoo. But that's ok, there are people who had, and have it tougher than me. You just have to keep looking at the bright side. It's all in the mind MT you can control if you want to be happy or pi$$ and moan your life away. It's plain to see you have already made that decision. Cry me a river.


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## gandergrinder

> Inconsistent in that it doesn't agree with the majority of the views on here. Thats called an opinion, it may come as a shocker but not everyone becomes a conservative as they age.


No inconsistent in that your views aren't in line with the reality of the world around you.



> Why does it upset me? Because it is petty and lacks basis.


You advocate realocating the wealth of this country. That is socialist. If that offends you I make no apologies.



> How exactly would you pay for it?


Let the markets work. The markets don't allocate the resources to people who don't or won't work. I believe people should receive enough compensation to have enough to eat, have shelter and clothes if they put in an honest days work. People deserve the necessities of life if they are working. Should they have enough to have a cell phone, a car, a huge house a bunch of jewelry and other things. No. You have to worker harder and smarter if you want those things. The thing is how far do you push the envelope of what people DESERVE to have.

Now if you are incapable of working and I mean totally incapable of working then society should help you with the necessities. I see too many people who abuse the system. Take that system away from them and they will work, they don't have a choice.

Do you really believe that everyone should get the same things? Because if you do you better sell your computer and give some of your money to people who are less fortunate than you. I find it hypocritical on your part to be preaching to all of us on your computer about how unfortunate some people are and how we should help them . Obviously you have enough time and money to sit around and chat on your computer preaching to us. If you really believe in what you say you should be out doing one of two things: 1) Working and paying taxes or 2) Volunteering your time helping out people less fortunate than you.


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## duketter

MT Said --
If you didn't have to pay any taxes we would have dirt roads, no police, raging wildfires and half the country wouldn't have a job.

This is apples and oranges. I pay these taxes to use the roads, police, fire dept., etc. So taxes go to something I use. Sure if I give my money to someone else it helps the economy in a way...but you can't compare giving money to someone to paying taxes.

MT what have you done to help these people out? Just curious if you practice what you preach?


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## Militant_Tiger

> That doesn't make me feel to bad. Actually coming from you it was kind of funny, I enjoyed it. Like I have said before, I wear your ridicule like a badge of honor.


I see you still haven't come to terms with your inflamitory statements yet, I will let that one go.



> You know why you keep harping about helping? I would guess it is because you are planning on being a freeloader.


Ok, well since we are going to use the light vs dark argument with no middle ground you must be trying to collapse the American economy by keeping the rich richer and the poor poorer.



> My family didn't have squat MT and I went to college on loans. Took me ten years to pay them back. That and medical bills up the wazoo. But that's ok, there are people who had, and have it tougher than me. You just have to keep looking at the bright side. It's all in the mind MT you can control if you want to be happy or pi$$ and moan your life away. It's plain to see you have already made that decision. Cry me a river.


That is quite a touching story. So you are telling me that if you were offered help by the government during this time you would not have taken it? Imagine how far ahead you could be in life if you were given little bit of extra help. I know what your answer will be, and we already know what you are full of.



> Quote:
> Inconsistent in that it doesn't agree with the majority of the views on here. Thats called an opinion, it may come as a shocker but not everyone becomes a conservative as they age.
> 
> No inconsistent in that your views aren't in line with the reality of the world around you.


Reality in that it doesn't follow how you think things work or should work. Not a real big difference.



> You advocate realocating the wealth of this country. That is socialist. If that offends you I make no apologies.


I see so taxes in general are wrong because they relocate wealth? You are by all means welcome to pull a Thoreau and preform civil disobedience.



> Let the markets work. The markets don't allocate the resources to people who don't or won't work. I believe people should receive enough compensation to have enough to eat, have shelter and clothes if they put in an honest days work. People deserve the necessities of life if they are working. Should they have enough to have a cell phone, a car, a huge house a bunch of jewelry and other things. No. You have to worker harder and smarter if you want those things. The thing is how far do you push the envelope of what people DESERVE to have.


That is quite reasonable, in fact it is almost exactly how welfare works. I'm glad that you've seen the light.



> Now if you are incapable of working and I mean totally incapable of working then society should help you with the necessities. I see too many people who abuse the system. Take that system away from them and they will work, they don't have a choice.


There will ALWAYS be abuse in the system or for that matter any system. If you want to solve this push for more restrictions on just who gets welfare, and I will support you.



> Do you really believe that everyone should get the same things? Because if you do you better sell your computer and give some of your money to people who are less fortunate than you. I find it hypocritical on your part to be preaching to all of us on your computer about how unfortunate some people are and how we should help them . Obviously you have enough time and money to sit around and chat on your computer preaching to us. If you really believe in what you say you should be out doing one of two things: 1) Working and paying taxes or 2) Volunteering your time helping out people less fortunate than you.


Apparently you read through a filter of some sort. You have taken my reasonable claim that we should help the poor by giving them just enough to live on and turned it into "we must share all". I now see where you got the socialist claim from.



> This is apples and oranges. I pay these taxes to use the roads, police, fire dept., etc. So taxes go to something I use. Sure if I give my money to someone else it helps the economy in a way...but you can't compare giving money to someone to paying taxes.


That is precisely what it is, a small portion of what you make is taken and put back into helping out those less fortunate. It is a tax. The people are given the bare bones amount to live on, and they want more. They get a job to earn more money, and get off welfare. The economy improves because of a greater workforce, wages go up and prices get lower. Certainly this is not a system of instant gratification, then again most great things aren't.



> MT what have you done to help these people out? Just curious if you practice what you preach?


I most certainly will practice what I preach. I will willingly give a small cut of my paycheck to the government to help get people over the poverty line and help the country as a whole.


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## Gohon

> MT what have you done to help these people out? Just curious if you practice what you preach?


You really didn't expect to get a answer from that question did you. If you notice he could only say "I will practice" and "I will give". He couldn't say "I AM practicing" or "I AM giving" yet he feels qualified to lecture others on what they should give.

Then he turns around and says to Plainsman "I see you still haven't come to terms with your inflamitory *(it's inflammatory)* statements yet, I will let that one go". But in the same post he says " I know what your answer will be, and we already know what you are full of".

Little kids ......... aren't they a barrel of laughs.......


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## Militant_Tiger

> You really didn't expect to get a answer from that question did you. If you notice he could only say "I will practice" and "I will give". He couldn't say "I AM practicing" or "I AM giving" yet he feels qualified to lecture others on what they should give.


You evidently skipped over about half the thread. If you can get a bill passed that makes minors pay taxes, I will gladly pay for it now.



> Then he turns around and says to Plainsman "I see you still haven't come to terms with your inflamitory (it's inflammatory) statements yet, I will let that one go". But in the same post he says " I know what your answer will be, and we already know what you are full of".
> 
> Little kids ......... aren't they a barrel of laughs.......


I made a promise to Plainsman that for each of his infammatory statement I would shoot one right back at him.


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## Gohon

> You evidently skipped over about half the thread. If you can get a bill passed that makes minors pay taxes, I will gladly pay for it now.


I didn't skip over anything, you simply don't or are incapable of getting the point.



> I made a promise to Plainsman that for each of his infammatory statement I would shoot one right back at him.


That's real adult of you..........


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## Militant_Tiger

> Quote:
> You evidently skipped over about half the thread. If you can get a bill passed that makes minors pay taxes, I will gladly pay for it now.
> 
> I didn't skip over anything, you simply don't or are incapable of getting the point


I'm afraid that it is you who has missed the point entirely. Please reread the thread.



> Quote:
> I made a promise to Plainsman that for each of his infammatory statement I would shoot one right back at him.
> 
> That's real adult of you..........


It is a tactic, one would hope that being over three times my age Plainsman would be the bigger man and stop making such statements. This has not happened.


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## duketter

MT : "I most certainly will practice what I preach. I will willingly give a small cut of my paycheck to the government to help get people over the poverty line and help the country as a whole."

Remind me to talk to you in about 10 years and then see your stance on this issue. Right now you are possibly at home, without a job, getting an allowance from your parents? Just curious?

When you start having to work for yourself we will see how much money you are willing to take out of your check each month for people on WELFARE, NOT for taxes for roads, etc.

Also what do you mean by willingly give? Give only what you have to in taxes or are you going to give even extra out of your paycheck?


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## Bobm

Charity should not be forced thru taxation. But I think we should all give when we can to private charities. You really have to watch charities as well, a lot of them are suspect, although I think most are on the up and up.

I once saw this thing on TV about starving kids and sent them a $100.00 and no kidding, they were on 60 minute a couple months later. My wife told me they were crooks and she was right. I just couldn't stand the thought of those kids needing food. I'm a real sucker for kids and animals. I'd let a grown man starve though, if he was able to work and wouldn't.


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## Plainsman

> It is a tactic, one would hope that being over three times my age Plainsman would be the bigger man and stop making such statements. This has not happened.


Some people have thinner skin than others. What is inflammatory to one, may not even draw the attention of another. I don't care about your promises MT, just remember what I told you, and forget the childish games. I will not play them or allow you to play them anymore.


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## Militant_Tiger

> When you start having to work for yourself we will see how much money you are willing to take out of your check each month for people on WELFARE, NOT for taxes for roads, etc.


The other option of which would be letting people starve. I have ideals, they will not change because an extra hundred is taken from my paycheck.



> Also what do you mean by willingly give? Give only what you have to in taxes or are you going to give even extra out of your paycheck


Nope, I simply won't complain about it.



> I'd let a grown man starve though, if he was able to work and wouldn't.


This is just the problem, how many innocent people do you starve because they cannot get jobs just to get your point across? Who are we to allow people to die in our country like this. Everyone makes a big fuss about Mrs. Schiavo but things are different when it comes to the poor or foreigners.



> I will not play them or allow you to play them anymore.


If you continue to initiate the games, I assure you that I will play.


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## duketter

MT said: The other option of which would be letting people starve. I have ideals, they will not change because an extra hundred is taken from my paycheck.

AGAIN...remind me to talk to you in 10 years when you actually have to work for a living and understand. When you have your kid(s) and/or house payment to make but then some guy comes along and tells you that you have to donate to welfare cause this guy won't try. Or you are going to tell me...that you will only buy what you can afford so you can still keep on giving out extra charity amounts. Right MT.......I believe that. You are so young and nieve.


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## Militant_Tiger

> AGAIN...remind me to talk to you in 10 years when you actually have to work for a living and understand. When you have your kid(s) and/or house payment to make but then some guy comes along and tells you that you have to donate to welfare cause this guy won't try. Or you are going to tell me...that you will only buy what you can afford so you can still keep on giving out extra charity amounts. Right MT.......I believe that. You are so young and nieve.


You do realize that about half the country has the very same ideals right? That would be the 18 and over voting populous of America. You are welcome to toss names around but it doesn't change the fact that my system is more reasonable as it doesn't rely on anyone starving as motivation and uses one of the most powerful motivators known to man.

Edit: As to giving out more, I am not quite sure how my words always get bent into so many shapes. I simply stated that welfare is a system which works and should continue to be used. I did not say anything more needed to be done.


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## Plainsman

> Quote:
> I'd let a grown man starve though, if he was able to work and wouldn't.





> This is just the problem, how many innocent people do you starve because they cannot get jobs just to get your point across? Who are we to allow people to die in our country like this. Everyone makes a big fuss about Mrs. Schiavo but things are different when it comes to the poor or foreigners.





> MT said: The other option of which would be letting people starve. I have ideals, they will not change because an extra hundred is taken from my paycheck.


Read the whole sentence, he said if he was able to work and would not. Everyone is willing to help the innocent. Well not everyone, some would let a poor innocent woman in Florida starve. Even if no one really knows what she feels. Inconsistency always amazes me. I guess if she can't pay taxes to help the lazy she is of no value to some people.


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## Gohon

> I guess if she can't pay taxes to help the lazy she is of no value to some people.


I was watching Hannity and Colmes the other night and they had had one of the Schiavo doctors on, the one you see in the film clips moving the balloon around. Anyway, it came out he was a proponent of euthanasia. After being pressed by Hannity he admitted that he had written in a book, that people in a PVS, coma, or even Alzheimer patients should have no constitutional rights. 
Very scary thought.............. makes me wonder if the movie Soylent Green wasn't so fictional after all.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Read the whole sentence, he said if he was able to work and would not. Everyone is willing to help the innocent. Well not everyone, some would let a poor innocent woman in Florida starve. Even if no one really knows what she feels. Inconsistency always amazes me. I guess if she can't pay taxes to help the lazy she is of no value to some people.


Just how many people are jobless by choice? As stated welfare relies on greed which is one of the most powerful human instincts, we always want more.

As to starving because she can't pay taxes, it is odd that you should mention that. While in office as governor of Texas Bush signed a bill that forced hospitals and care centers to remove life support from anyone who couldn't pay for their care. Just three or four days ago a black child who was six months old and suffered from dwarfism had his life support taken away because his parents couldn't pay for it. Inconsistency always amazes me.


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## duketter

Militant_Tiger said:


> Edit: As to giving out more, I am not quite sure how my words always get bent into so many shapes. I simply stated that welfare is a system which works and should continue to be used. I did not say anything more needed to be done.
Click to expand...

Does it actually work? You think it doesn't need to be changed? No one here is arguing about the poor guy who lost his job to unforseen reasons to get help for a bit, it is that actual welfare system in general that needs work. I think it really needs to be looked at and made more strict.


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## Plainsman

> Bush signed a bill that forced hospitals and care centers to remove life support from anyone who couldn't pay for their care.


If that is true I don't approve of it. You state it as fact, yet I have never seen it. I'm not saying it isn't true. Like you, I possibly miss many things. Do you have something, a site worthy of trust where I can read this. Please, not a site like IBC ( Irrational Bonafide Crazies ). Please notice this isn't personal, it is aimed at an organization that I have little respect for, as an example of one in which I place absolutely no trust.


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## Gohon

> If that is true I don't approve of it. You state it as fact, yet I have never seen it.


It's simply another example of talking points babble taken out of context in an attempt to stir things up. Here is the story and what really happened.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151448,00.html

You will note that this does not apply to adults or what is considered adult children but to the new born that can't survive ever, without a breathing apparatus and who are diagnosed that they will die soon anyway. Also note the mother was offered the chance to take the child to another facility but 40, yes 40 different institutions came to the same conclusion as the hospital the baby was in. The mother thought the baby was a gift from the sun and did not believe in death, what ever that means. It's apples to oranges to you and I, good spin for the radical left.


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## Militant_Tiger

Duck, I believe that there needs to be more scans into just who needs it and who does not. In that effect it does need to be chaned, I worded my previous statement in a confusing manner.

Plainsman, I assure you of the validity of the statement. These sites state it, among many others. You will probably be able to hear it on the television news or radio was well.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0322-03.htm

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/iss ... ongressorg

Gohon that disgusts me to no end. I have no idea how you can make light on this childs death. The child like Therisa Schiavo had an incurable condition which they will eventually die from. How can you possibly say that the braindead woman has a right to life and that the dwarf baby does not? Spin from the radical left indeed. :eyeroll:


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## Gohon

> Gohon that disgusts me to no end. I have no idea how you can make light on this childs death. The child like Therisa Schiavo had an incurable condition which they will eventually die from. How can you possibly say that the braindead woman has a right to life and that the dwarf baby does not? Spin from the radical left indeed. :eyeroll:


You wouldn't know what disgust was if it bit you in the ***. Only thing you got correct was you have no idea. Every word I said was right out of the article which I referenced if you took the time to read it and all I did was repeat some of the information in the article. I gave no opinion on the merits as to whether the decision was correct or not dummy. 
The case hasn't a damn thing to do with the baby being just a dwarf but that of the condition of the babies lungs. Your comment the baby was removed from the breathing machine because the mother had no money is a flat out lie on your part. The baby could not be saved, it was in pain, it was going to die regardless of medical attention. Terri Schiavo doesn't have a medical condition she will eventually die from no matter what is done. She has a condition she is being killed for because of what they don't want to do for her. You are so stupid it's pathetic.


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## Militant_Tiger

> You wouldn't know what disgust was if it bit you in the a$$. Only thing you got correct was you have no idea. Every word I said was right out of the article which I referenced if you took the time to read it and all I did was repeat some of the information in the article. I gave no opinion on the merits dummy. The case hasn't a damn thing to do with the baby being a dwarf other than that is part of the medical term of what was wrong with the baby. The baby could not be saved, it was in pain, it was going to die regardless of medical attention. Terri Schiavo doesn't have a medical condition she will eventually die from no matter what is done. She has a condition she is being killed for because of what they don't want to do for her. You are so stupid it's pathetic.


You gave your opinion by agreeing whole heartedly with the article. Therisa Schiavo cannot be saved. She will always be in her state of complete unawareness and will always be braindead (this is a medical condition). The issue is whether or not it is ethical to remove life support from anyone, and you have come to a hypocritical conclusion. All you have proven is that you enjoy tossing names around and contradicting yourself.


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## Gohon

> You gave your opinion by agreeing whole heartedly with the article.


Really? Please quote the section where I said I agreed. You can't because I didn't. What I did do was show once again you are a liar and you just simply make things up such as saying the breathing equipment was removed because the mother couldn't pay. That never happened, but you already knew that didn't you............ your attempt to hijack this thread into a different subject has failed little boy.


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## Militant_Tiger

> Really? Please quote the section where I said I agreed. You can't because I didn't. What I did do was show once again you are a liar and you just simply make things up such as saying the breathing equipment was removed because the mother couldn't pay. That never happened, but you already knew that didn't you............ your attempt to hijack this thread into a different subject has failed little boy.


You posted the site and explained why it was correct. If that isin't showing your support for said site the sky is red.

The tube was removed based on the law signed by Bush.

You have showed your true colors here, and frankly I am quite saddened by them.


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## Gohon

> You posted the site and explained why it was correct. If that isin't showing your support for said site the sky is red.


Better check the color of the sky in your little world. Repeating what is in a article is explaining nothing. Now, where is that quote of me saying I agreed or the article was correct..........



> The tube was removed based on the law signed by Bush.


No kidding sherlock ........ figure that one out all by yourself did you.:laugh: I see your avoiding your *LIE* about the mother not being able to pay. Then again you always do run away crying when you are caught in a lie.:laugh:



> You have showed your true colors here, and frankly I am quite saddened by them.


Please don't start trying to play like being a adult. You haven't even mastered the qualities of acting like a 16 year old yet. :laugh: :laugh:

Tell you what I'm gonna do kitty cat .................. every time I or anyone else post something you jump in with you moronic bs and start a pissing contest. I don't enjoy it, never have but I hate leaving your lies unanswered. It has occurred to me that unlike a news group, this forum is member oriented so travelers passing through don't post. That means everyone is aware of who and what you are. Taking a hint from the folks over in the gun groups I'll just try to ignore the ranting and postings of a jerk that knows nothing and has no intentions of knowing anything and merely view then with a chuckle as they do. In other words I'll just stay away from you so lets just see if you can do the same. With that said, I would encourage everyone to do the same.


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## Militant_Tiger

Gohon this is the second time that you have began calling me names based on a lack of information, I don't know if I'll be able to get the senate to prove you wrong this time though.


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## Plainsman

Do any of you remember the scene in The Ten Commandments where Moses (Charlton Heston) is before the pharaoh and confronting him. As he turns to leave the guards want to arrest him, and the pharaoh says no "let him rave on that men may know him mad". This is my take on Militant Tiger. Don't feel awfully insulted from his remarks, after all he is a child, and a more foolish than average one at that. His objective is to insult you until you call him names. He feels he has won then. I have a couple dozen PM about this guy. If you feel like calling him every name in the book simply to vent, don't do it on the form PM me like many others have. There is practically a support group forming.


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## Storm

I have posted this once before, but I will do it again. Mt's whole goal is to get you guys all worked up. Much of the things he says he probably doesn't even believe, but he knows it will get a rise out of someone. The best way to handle a person like this is to ignore them. Don't respond to anything they say. You will never convience MT that you are right or he is wrong. The more a person responds to him the more he is going to write and the more people aren't going to use this site.


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## Militant_Tiger

We are reverting back to insults, by which I mean that I get insulted and then it is stated that it was all my fault in the first place. Instead of attempting to turn yet more into your horde with talking points lets debate why you are wrong.

To begin with, when granted the right to life you are granted the right to die as well. There is no reason to punish this woman who has done nothing wrong by forcing her to live in such a state.

Why did it come out 7 years after the incident that she didn't want to live in a vegetative state? Because up until 7 years Michael had hope that she might come out of it. After 15 years there is no chance of this, and Therisa should get her wish.

Threats have been made against politicaians such as Jeb Bush as well as several judges that they will suffer in the polls next election because they did not do the bidding on the Christian right. A bounty of $250,000 has been put on Michael Schavio's head by a right wing fanatic as well. How exactly can these people call themselves pro life when they threaten people with death?



> No kidding sherlock ........ figure that one out all by yourself did you. I see your avoiding your LIE about the mother not being able to pay. Then again you always do run away crying when you are caught in a lie.


The law states that life support will be removed if the family cannot pay for it to be continued, this law was used to pull the tube on said child. As stated, you are rather obviously quite confused about this issue.



> Better check the color of the sky in your little world. Repeating what is in a article is explaining nothing. Now, where is that quote of me saying I agreed or the article was correct..........


No one in their right mind would post an article which they did not agree with without at least commenting on why it is wrong. You posted the article and explained it, if you indeed do not agree with it you should have not posted it at all as it simply gives more power to your opponent.

Let us hope that when Therisa Schiavo passes on there is indeed hell to pay to show everyone just what the religous right wingers are, fanatics.


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## Plainsman

The problem with knowing what to do about Therisa is that the world if full of liars. The reality is none of us know who is telling the truth. If she had a living will I would say follow her wishes. If there was no doubt about her husband I would say follow her wishes. The truth is there is some doubt about her husbands motives. True? I don't know, and the reality is neither do any of us.

Watching her on TV I don't believe she is in a vegetative state. This is supported by the evidence that they will not let anyone give her water by mouth. Water by mouth, in a vegetative state?

I personally want to error on the side that doesn't jeopardize where I go when I die. That's right, I worry about her suffering, my future, and doing what is right. I am amazed by how sure everyone is. I'm not, and I can see no way to be sure. I think we have chosen partisan sides and are not thinking about Therisa.


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## Militant_Tiger

> If there was no doubt about her husband I would say follow her wishes. The truth is there is some doubt about her husbands motives. True? I don't know, and the reality is neither do any of us.


The only reason that Michael Schiavo seem shifty is because the media has painted him as such. Lies have floated around that he was in it just for the money, just so he could remarry etc. All of these have been proven false but none the less it has damaged his credibility.



> Watching her on TV I don't believe she is in a vegetative state. This is supported by the evidence that they will not let anyone give her water by mouth. Water by mouth, in a vegetative state?


Plainsman it is exactly that mentality that has kept this poor woman alive against her will. You cannot tell anything simply by looking at the person, those are natural motor movements. It is not proof that she isin't braindead. Dozens of doctors have looked at her brain scans and all but two have concluded that she is gone. They were hired by churches, their motives are clear.

Why won't they let anyone give her water by mouth? Because she lacks the ability to swallow, she would choke.



> I personally want to error on the side that doesn't jeopardize where I go when I die. That's right, I worry about her suffering, my future, and doing what is right. I am amazed by how sure everyone is. I'm not, and I can see no way to be sure. I think we have chosen partisan sides and are not thinking about Therisa.


I have to agree, I do think that one of the sides has aired on the side of partisanship and quit caring about the woman. The conservatives have been fighting to win the fight for the pro life movement, not for Mrs. Schaivo. Who among you has taken the time to empathize with either one of the Schiavos? If you were in Therisa's shoes, would you really want to continue to live in a state where you lack the ability to preform even the most minute of tasks or communicate with the outside in any way? Could you imagine what a horrible experience that would be? Who has taken the time to think of what this is like for Michael? The poor man has not only lost his wife but has also had to watch her suffer for 15 years. Now when the struggle is nearly over half of the country rises against him and his life is threatened to get their point across. May Therisa Schiavo rest in peace.


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## Gohon

For those interested in the truth, here is the truth as reported by CNN, hardly considered a conservative source.

Tuesday, March 15, 2005 Posted: 7:39 PM EST (0039 GMT)

"HOUSTON, Texas (AP) -- A critically ill 5-month-old was taken off life support and died Tuesday, a day after a judge cleared the way for doctors to halt care they believed to be futile. The infant's mother had fought to keep him alive.

Sun Hudson had been diagnosed with a fatal genetic disorder called thanatophoric dysplasia, a condition characterized by a tiny chest and lungs too small to support life. He had been on a ventilator since birth.

Wanda Hudson unsuccessfully fought to continue her son's medical care. She believed he needed time to grow and could eventually be weaned off the ventilator.

"I wanted life for my son," Hudson said Tuesday. "The hospital gave up on him too soon."

Texas law allows hospitals to end life support in cases such as this but requires that families be given 10 days to find another facility to care for the patient. No hospital was found to take the baby.

The ethics committee at Texas Children's Hospital reviewed Sun's case before recommending that life support be stopped. Hospital officials also recommended the case be taken to court and offered to pay Hudson's attorney fees.

"Texas Children's Hospital is deeply saddened to report that Sun Hudson has died," the hospital said in a statement issued Tuesday".

Note that the decision was made by a hospital ethics committee, not a individual doctor or the hospital adminstrator. That all other hospitals (40 total as reported earlier) agreed with the ethics committee and would not accept the child. That the hospital not only encouraged the mother to go to court but offered to pay attorney fees. Money was never a issue. The issue was the baby was suffering and could not be saved with any known medical procedures. But, I'm sure there are those that won't let facts get in their way but instead will continue with blabbering lies even though they know better. That alone speaks volumes of that persons integrity. As Paul Harvey would say, now you know the rest of the story.

Plainsman, I agree with you on your observations of Terri Schiavo. Even more troubling though is the apparent evidence that we are moving towards such a rabid secular society that we aren't satisfied to determine when life begins but also when life should end.


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## Plainsman

> Who among you has taken the time to empathize with either one of the Schiavos? If you were in Therisa's shoes, would you really want to continue to live in a state where you lack the ability to preform even the most minute of tasks or communicate with the outside in any way? Could you imagine what a horrible experience that would be? Who has taken the time to think of what this is like for Michael?


MT, I feel sorry for both, and like I said things have become so muddled I don't know who to believe. If I was in her shoes? That is the problem, I don't know what those shoes are. If it is as you say then absolutely I agree with you, I wouldn't want to continue life. I think removal of live support is not the same as suicide and she should be allowed to die if that was her wish. No, I can not imagine the horror of what she is going through. If she is indeed brain dead she knows nothing of it and is not suffering. If she feels suffering then she is not vegetative. All so confusing. I think both sides are making partisan mistakes, and while we can not come together Therisa, her husband, her parents, sisters etc all suffer.

I think we should all take a breath and thank god this is not us or our family. If she must pass I hope it is painless, and I wish more swift.


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## huntin1

Militant_Tiger said:


> We are reverting back to insults, by which I mean that I get insulted and then it is stated that it was all my fault in the first place. Instead of attempting to turn yet more into your horde with talking points lets debate why you are wrong.


This is the biggest problem. M_T, it does not seem to matter what the issue is, you are right and anyone who does not agree is wrong. You refuse to consider that you may be wrong. In my judgement, this is simply a product of your age and experience. My 16 year old is the same way, and as I sit here and think about it, I guess I was the same way when I was 16 as well.

So, I have been trying hard not to get into a pissing match with you any more, I will simply post my views, state my reasons and present whatever evidence I have to back it up. If you don't agree, fine, but I ain't gonna argue with you any more. (At least, I am going to try)

Argue all you want, as far as I am concerned you will be arguing with yourself.

huntin1


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## Bobm

I think this thread is worn out what do you say we all just drop it and go on to a new topic. Lets try to keep the standards here up.

Thanks


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## BigDaddy

You know, this thread is a great example why I stopped posting on the politics forum awhile ago. It seems like every thread eventually turns into a rant between MT and others.

If folks want to have intelligent political debates, I'm all for it. In fact, it is one of my favorite things to do. However, we need to stop the personal attacks and "My dad is tougher than your dad" exchanges.

To MT: listen man, I appreciate your willingness to debate with conservatives and point out inconsistencies with some of their policies. However, sometimes you need to respect other views and agree to disagree.


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## sotaman

Militant_Tiger said:


> I wouldn't expect you to be able to empathize. Simply try to understand that being born in a poor household, especially being born a minority puts you at a distinct disadvantage when looking for work or loans. Being white and middle class you were likely instilled with the thought that there is value in education, and you will have an easier time finding a job. There are two ways to live, you can either say "good riddance" to everyone who has failed in life, or you can give them a leg up.


All I can say to this BS. I work in contracting and a white male that owns a business is at a distenct disadvantage in where the Govenrment spends a large chunk of its money. We are required to spend all purchased between $2,500 and $100,000.00 With a disadvantaged small buisness meaning woman, different ethnic groups, I went with the military option and it is open to anyone that is willing and has the sence to stay clean and out of trouble. So I AM SO SICK OF THIS CRAP ABOUT I DIDN'T GET A FAIR FREAKIN SHAKE ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO THAT IS BULL SH#T YOU DIDN"T CARE ENOUGHT TO GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE. This is that land of choice. So you have no one to blame but yourself.


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## Bore.224

Militant_Tiger !! You say you are only 16 years old! And you have such strong interest in politics THANK YOU GOD THEIR IS HOPE FOR US AFTER ALL!!!! You will not like the sound of this but, one day you will be a great Republican!


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## Militant_Tiger

Thats very nice of you Bore 224, but I don't plan on getting rid of my ideals anytime soon.


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## jamartinmg2

BigDaddy said:


> You know, this thread is a great example why I stopped posting on the politics forum awhile ago. It seems like every thread eventually turns into a rant between MT and others.
> 
> If folks want to have intelligent political debates, I'm all for it. In fact, it is one of my favorite things to do. However, we need to stop the personal attacks and "My dad is tougher than your dad" exchanges.
> 
> To MT: listen man, I appreciate your willingness to debate with conservatives and point out inconsistencies with some of their policies. However, sometimes you need to respect other views and agree to disagree.


Well said BD! I have been gradually moving away from the politics myself as of late for the same reason.


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## sotaman

sotaman said:


> Militant_Tiger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't expect you to be able to empathize. Simply try to understand that being born in a poor household, especially being born a minority puts you at a distinct disadvantage when looking for work or loans. Being white and middle class you were likely instilled with the thought that there is value in education, and you will have an easier time finding a job. There are two ways to live, you can either say "good riddance" to everyone who has failed in life, or you can give them a leg up.
> 
> 
> 
> All I can say to this BS. I work in contracting and a white male that owns a business is at a distenct disadvantage in where the Govenrment spends a large chunk of its money. We are required to spend all purchased between $2,500 and $100,000.00 With a disadvantaged small buisness meaning woman, different ethnic groups, I went with the military option and it is open to anyone that is willing and has the sence to stay clean and out of trouble. So I AM SO SICK OF THIS CRAP ABOUT I DIDN'T GET A FAIR FREAKIN SHAKE ALL I HAVE TO SAY TO THAT IS BULL SH#T YOU DIDN"T CARE ENOUGHT TO GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE. This is that land of choice. So you have no one to blame but yourself.
Click to expand...

MT I saw that you have been on since my last post and I was wondering where your response was on the above issue.


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## Militant_Tiger

I've stated my opinion on that matter several times in this thread. Check page one.


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## fox412

You know MT it great that you have great convictions for the views that you have. You seem to be well educated for a 16 year old. The problem that I personally have is that you speak of a lot of things in which you do not have a lot of life experience in. I grew up in a large town with lots of minorities, rich people, poor people and deverything in between. I have been a teacher now for 10 years and see that the desire for education whether you want to believe it or not really does come down to the importance that parents put on it at home. I know that this isn't always the case but it is the case in most instances. One day you will gain more in life experiences and they will mold you and your thoughts. You will start to see soon that the poorer you are the more opportunities you have for college(grant money). My parents worked hard and expected us to work hard but we were never able to qualify for a grant and we were a long long way from being rich. My wife and I work hard and my extra money goes to my kids and my future. Yes we should help our fellow man and we donate to some charities and even volenteer time, but we have to take care of ourselves and our family first. Keep your passions and stand up for what you believe in but don't call others ignorant or whatever because they disagree with you. I am glad that we live in a society that we are allowed to express our views but you have to be able to at least listen to the other side with an open mind. Remember this we all have formed opinions from our own life experience and the more we experience the wiser we become. We can all learn from everyone including you.


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## pointer99

can you guys hold it down in here.......trying to get some sack time......can't sleep at night cause the women won't leave me alone.

hey mt .....i've taken your advice and became a liberal so i blame everyone on this board for all of my problems. the hobo lifestyle does have it's advantages......no money , no home....no shame. since i am no longer above begging ......mt could you send a fiver to the pointer99 relief fund?.....thanks i knew a fellow liberal would want to do his part.hehe.

pointer


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## jeep_guy_4x4

I love politics....

everyone I speak with seems to understand the dynamics of the political machine.....we have the republican viewpoint............the democratic viewpoint..........and then reallity...or maybe even the truth.........neither party cares about the truth...they only care about getting elected!!!!!the design of the politcal is pure genius....to get your vote....everyone seems to understand this......yet they tell me how there party is doing this.....and the other party messed this up.....doesn't matter which party most people are affilated thier party is right while the other party is wrong....sounds like a well oiled machine....


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## Militant_Tiger

> hey mt .....i've taken your advice and became a liberal so i blame everyone on this board for all of my problems. the hobo lifestyle does have it's advantages......no money , no home....no shame. since i am no longer above begging ......mt could you send a fiver to the pointer99 relief fund?.....thanks i knew a fellow liberal would want to do his part.hehe.


Quite odd that you should mention this pointer, just when the parties should be switching names. You know this has happened multiple times in American history, the democrats used to be the republicans and vise versa. With this new push by the conservatives to put big government into peoples lives, shove more power into the federal branch and their willy nilly spending policy they have nearly become your partys very definition of liberal just one year ago. Have fun trying to build up the vast left wing conspiracy, but for some reason it just doesn't have that same ring.


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## Plainsman

Hillary/MT ?????wrote:



> Have fun trying to build up the vast left wing conspiracy, but for some reason it just doesn't have that same ring.


MT, do you live in a pet store? Do you want a cracker? Don't mean to ruffle your *feathers*, it's just that you repeat so many ridiculous things. Do you remember when Hillary said "vast right wing conspiracy"? Shortly after we found that Bill had a private humidor for his cigars. Sooooo, it wasn't a conspiracy.

Hey MT do you know why your fantasy girl, Chelsea, isn't too cute? Because Janet Reno is the father.


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## Militant_Tiger

Considering that your own pundits have been using said term for the past few years I doubted you would have a problem with it. It almost seems like the conservatives have a standard for each occasion.


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## Plainsman

I guess I have never heard the term vast left wing conspiracy. I wouldn't believe it anyway. The extreme left isn't that vast. Good to see you didn't loose it with me having a little fun with you. Do you remember that line of Hillary's? I guess that is what I picked up on, the more famous conspiracy quote.

In all seriousness I would imagine that both sides make plans and counter plans to defeat each other. The term conspiracy ( an exaggeration ) I am sure is meant to solicit sympathy from the general more naïve public.


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## Goose Huntin' Machine

Militant_Tiger said:


> How do you know they didn't try? Who are you to say that all of them are just lazy? It is your job as an American to make sure they are given the same chance to be prosperous that you were.
Click to expand...

Sorry for beating a dead horse even harder....but....I cannot help but reaize MT is missing the point. Americans are all given the same chance. It is called public education. We are all given it for free.

And when you say "it is our job as Americans to make sure they are given the same chance to be prosperous as I was..."

I cannot help but think of a redistribution of wealth, which in case look no farther than the words of The Communist Manifesto

Jeff Given


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## Militant_Tiger

> Sorry for beating a dead horse even harder....but....I cannot help but reaize MT is missing the point. Americans are all given the same chance. It is called public education. We are all given it for free.
> 
> And when you say "it is our job as Americans to make sure they are given the same chance to be prosperous as I was..."
> 
> I cannot help but think of a redistribution of wealth, which in case look no farther than the words of The Communist Manifesto
> 
> Jeff Given


But what is they immigrate to America after they have reached adulthood?

I can't believe that so many people take the attitude of "screw you I've got mine". America will not grow and prosper with that set of ideals.


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## Plainsman

> But what is they immigrate to America after they have reached adulthood?


What? Would you interpret that for me? Also, what does it have to do with the previous post that you quoted?


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## Militant_Tiger

> What? Would you interpret that for me? Also, what does it have to do with the previous post that you quoted?


He says that we are all given an equal chance by the education system, if they came here after their school years however that doesnt apply. What to them?


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## Plainsman

> He says that we are all given an equal chance by the education system, if they came here after their school years however that doesnt apply.


If they are already educated, then they are on equal footing.



> What to them?


What?


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## Gohon

> What to them?


What?[/quote]

LOL.......give it up Plainsman .....when he mumbles with that pacifier still in his mouth , you can't understand a word he says. :lol:


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## racer66

LOL Tooooo Much


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