# 500-800yds



## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

if you had to take shots at mulie and whitetail at extended ranges, what is the best choice of rifle?


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

Weatherby .30-378 :wink:


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Not speaking of you personally, but presuming a person has the skill to make shots at the ranges you specify, you want to launch a big bullet with a high BC & SD with as much velocity as you can beg, borrow, or steal.
It has to buck the wind and still get there with enough oomph to do the job.

This means stuff like the aforementioned 30-378, 300 RUM, standard 30 caliber mags, and the 7MM RUM. Out to 500 the standard 7MM mags. Bear in mind I'm a big fan of the 7MM Rem Mag, but understand it's limitations.

Muzzle blast and recoil are the price for the performance levels you need. I've owned and extensively shot both 300 RUM (no fun at all to shoot) and 7MM RUM (livable). If you want to find out how much fun an unbraked 30-378 is, go up to the Sanitation Dept and ask Dave Fix to borrow you his Sako...

Now that round needs to be fired from a rifle with the accuracy and optics to allow you to do it. Long range accuracy doesn't come cheap.

You know my background & experience, and for the record the two longest shots on a live target I have ever taken were 424 yards on a moose and 420 yards on a big whitetail buck, both measured by rangefinder. I had a solid rest, little wind to contend with, and was twice over confident I could make the shots before I took the safety off.

Killed both those critters with a 270, BTW...


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

Just to let every one know, this is just a "what if" type thing. I don't shoot any thing bigger than my 30-06, and have no plans for any thing bigger. I have not shot an animal over 300 yds. I am just curious to hear what calibers those of you who have the skill and experience shooting longer shots would use.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

A .308 is still doable to 600 yards, beyond that I would want something larger, 300WM at least. Along with all the othe requirements of long range work.

huntin1


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## hagfan72 (Apr 15, 2007)

I have an aquaintance at work who is as close to an Olympic caliber shooter as you can get. Anyway, he hunts exclusively with a .308. His longest ranged shot was last year on a deer, and she was 618yds. He even said that was pushing HIS envelope. Also, perfect conditions, great rest, and the deer had no idea he was there.


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## callingislife (Jan 13, 2008)

338
or just wait for the "big one" something about the size of a semi trailer and go with the 50 cal.

its all about hours and hours of practice, and a bullet with enough down range energy. Many frontiersman were using the 45-70 for long range buffalo kills.
not a fast bullet, definitely has the energy behind it.

personally i would love to get ahold of a 7mm-08 and see what this is capable of. 308 with that smaller bullet should be even flatter, prob. not enough energy for animals other than coyotes, prairie dogs etc... at those distances.
but an intriguing caliber non the-less


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## windowlicker (Dec 17, 2007)

hagfan72 said:


> I have an aquaintance at work who is as close to an Olympic caliber shooter as you can get.


In the "chairforce"? Pppppffffttttt!! :wink:


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## DuaneinND (Jan 22, 2005)

My choice is the 300 Win mag.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

callingislife said:


> 338


Yep, That would do the job just peachy. I sure love my 338 Mag. If I could only have one rifle for all North American hunting, I would keep the 338...


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## MOB (Mar 10, 2005)

There's quite a few chamberings capable of making that shot. The part on the end of the stock is the bigger question mark.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Oh, oh!!!! You better check a ballistic chart fellows. At 800 yards the 300 Win mag has more energy than the 338, unless you get the Ultramag or the Lapua. The 338 Winchester doesn't cut it at long range. The problem is ballistic coefficient. Ballistic coefficient of a 180 gr 30 caliber is .507 while the same manufacture same bullet profile in even the 200 grain ballistic tip is .414. The heavy 250 gr 338 is .473, and they start at a much lower velocity.

My 300 Win mag with 165 gr bullets retains 1410 ft/lb at 800 yards. The hottest load in my Nosler manual for a Ballistic tip in gr 338 retains just enough for deer (1052 ft/lb) at 800 yards. This is a little misleading, because frontal area is important also. The 1052 ft/lb of energy in a larger diameter bullet may be nearly as lethal as more energy in a smaller bullet. Sectional density are nearly identical so penetration should be the same. As you can see arguments can be made for both to about 600 yards. If I need more energy (higher ballistic coefficient) and more penetration (higher sectional density) I'll throw a 180 gr in my 300 and retain 1435 ft/lb to 800 yards. Only slightly more energy, but with much better penetration.

The drop at 800 yards is 140 inches for my 300 mag loads, and 198 inches for the hottest 338 loads. That's a lot flatter shooting, and that is important for long range accuracy.

338 Winchester mag is the number one rifle carried by guides in Alaska, and for good reason. They are wonderful close range dangerous game rifles. Only the 338 Remington Ultramag and the 338 Lapua, which both push a 250 gr bullet to 3002 fps are long range rifles. With a ballistic coefficient of .473 a 250 gr bullet out of each of these rifles carries 1560 ft/lb to 800 yards. Long range shooters recommend the 300 SMK for both of these rifles which would carry a whopping 2528 ft/lb to 800 yards. So as you see ballistic coefficient and velocity are important. 
Although Sierra Match Kings don't expand real good at long range people do use them. On Long Range Hunter guys shoot deer with them to 1500 yards. They carry the often agreed upon 1000 ft/lb of energy to 1700 yards. 
The 338 Lapua is the mid range sniper rifle for the military. It falls between the 308 and 50 caliber.


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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

True enough, PM. The 338 Mag is meant to hit like a ton of bricks at under 400 yards, but a .430BC 225 grain 338 Interbond or A-Max would certainly carry the mail well enough to flatten deer beyond that .

As with my 308 work rifle, I could work with a 198" 800 yard drop from my 338 Mag given a solid rest and time to dope the wind (IMO, the wind is the biggest factor in LR shooting). Might have to take the 338 out sometime in the future and try it just for fun.

Of course, we are just speaking hypothetically. After having shot the 7MM and 300 RUM extensively, I myself would choose one of those calibers for a dedicated 500 yard plus rifle...


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## iwantabuggy (Feb 15, 2005)

I second what Plainsman said about the 300WM having more energy than the 338 at long ranges. I did all those calculations before I bought my 300WM. I use a 180 gr bullet with a BC of .520.

On another note, if you really want to make those kind of shots, you may want to consider the 408 Cheytac.
:sniper:


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