# Voluntary Restraint



## maple lake duck slayer (Sep 25, 2003)

I am really interested in getting involved in this. A lot of people hunt fields in ND, which makes it easier to pick out the drakes because you mostly get the mallards coming into the field spread. Here in MN however, we have a pond we hunt and we get a large variety of ducks that come into the water spread. Last year we shot wood ducks, green/blue wing teal, mallards, shovelers, gadwalls, and widgeons. I know with some studying, I will be able to do a lot better identifying what sex they are before I shoot, but with all the different kinds, it gets difficult. Especially when they don't have their plumage yet. I was wondering how some of the other water hunters go about this. Wood ducks and mallards are easy to pick out the drakes, but the others are difficult. I know most people, if they shoot a hen while practicing voluntary restraint, donate $ to Delta Waterfowl. Do you just try to do your best, and if you're not sure, don't shoot? I guess thats probably a dumb question, the answer is yes.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Voluntary restraint at home, fill-out on the road.


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

Thats a pretty piss-poor attitude james. I will not lie, i have shot more than 1 hen. Mostly by accident, but sometimes on purpose. It depends the type of hunting you are doing. If you are just out casual hunting with a younger kid or even yourself sometimes, I feel it's just fine to shoot a hen or two. But, if there are ducks all over and you hunt a lot, it is not ethical to kill your limit of hens every day.

my opinions for what they r worth.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Its more of an observation than anything, when you are on the road the "limit" is more in mind. At home it is easier to be happy with the bag and head in.


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## Tony Vandemore (Dec 17, 2003)

I am guessing that Maple Lake Duck Slayer opened a big can of worms here.....

I agree with Voluntary Restraint all the way. Granted it might be tougher for all you up north early in the year while in eclipse. By the time we start working on them, they are easily identifiable. Not going to get into the whole 'you can't stock pile ducks' arguement and I am no biologist....but say you have optimal breeding conditions, water everywhere in the duck factory...I ain't buying that sending more hens back isn't going to help produce more ducks when conditions are favorable.

Everybody has different theories on this but not alot of people use hard data. I can tell you this for sure...you don't have to be a biologist to know what the odds of a dead hen raising a brood are. I can also guarantee you the odds of that hen you wack 'on the road' raising a brood are the exact same as a hen you wack at home.... :withstupid:

Not sure I understand the observation of wacking more hens on the road...I would think that when on the road on a hunting trip you have nothing else to do but hunt.....I know I wouldn't want to pile up a limit of the first ducks that are unfortunate enough to come in......what are you going to do the rest of the day? Alright, forget that last question..... :beer: LMAO I still ain't filling out on bags just to be able to be done hunting and start drinking earlier. That is what the flask is for...lol


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

It's kinda funny, on the road in North Dakota we have the posession limit always to worry about so it's mostly pick out the drakes. At home in Minn. just the opposite, possession limit never really an issue so when you do get birds around shoot like hell. James??? you're on one opposite side of this issue than myself, no doubt.


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Goldy, I don't get what you are trying to say. I said that limits are more important to some just because of the nature of being on a trip with time constraints. I heard guys in the town where we stayed last season state that after a poor day in the field they had to "go to the suzies" to be able to fill.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

James, I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that it was hard for these guys to fill out there posession limit in North Dakota?? :huh: How much hunting do these guys do out there?? I know last year was a bit harder to find birds. Maybe if you hunt for a couple days and go back it's harder to fill. I don't know. :huh: We've never had this problem out there and don't think many do. :lol:


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## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

Just what we need!! More guys that think a limit is the most important thing when they come to NoDak!! :eyeroll: SB2048 anyone???


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## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

All I'm saying is that vountary restraint isn't happening from what I see when I hunt as a NR. I don't know how hard these guys hunt, where they hunt and don't really care. It's good that you don't have any problem filling out your limit, I let the kids shoot and only take a couple myself. One time at a public boat launch some guy gave me a speech and handed me a VR pin for my hat, later in the day I saw him again and noticed that he had half hens in his bag, to him VR was good for me to practice but not for him.


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

Just my two cents, but I have felt that the limits were implemented for management purposes.So noone really can criticize those that shoot a hen...unless it's Billy Guiantanno(SP.) When I first started hunting ducks I can remember that it was tough to tell the differences because of being a newbie however with experience it does not take long to be able to distinguish. I have no problems with newer hunters taking a hen or two ocasionaly but would like to teach them to be able to identify and realize that not taking hens will benefit the resource. I also feel that the mentality to harvest hens to fill a bag limit is stupid and should go away as one MATURES but doesn't always! I know personally when I hunted SD we could have limited in fifteen minutes many times but would rather watch the birds and usually took a bird or two out of every other few flocks. We always did limit but we typically hunted from sunrise till just before lunch time and were able to watch hundreds of ducks do their thing unharmed!

Here in southern Mn, I'd bet there are more hens shot than in any other part of the country because if you were to let one go by (which I often do) then some otherr group just pounds them to death with steel further down the line! One good reason to avoid congested areas.


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## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

dblkluk said:


> Just what we need!! More guys that think a limit is the most important thing when they come to NoDak!! :eyeroll: SB2048 anyone???


I don't know who you're refering to, :huh: , but to me it is not the most important thing at all, just an important thing to deal with when out there. We do a lot of bird watching without shooting many times. Just to see birds is most of the fun anyway. I don't see what difference it makes to be honest. If you feel like taking a shot, take it. All about personal satisfaction. Not shooting at all, same thing.


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## Tony Vandemore (Dec 17, 2003)

The old 'well if I don't shoot it somebody else down the marsh or down the flyway will' mentaility is absolutely ridiculous. If you let that hen go and somebody wacks it, then one hen dies. If you shoot that bag then the guys down the way are gong to shoot a different one.....if my math is correct that would be two dead hens instead of one..... :roll:


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

TDB,
That mentallity is just the way it goes! However my group and I do not shoot hens anymore now for many years. When we hunt together and a hen flies by we say to one another "that ones going to be pounded" and sure enough, within seconds we hear a hailstorm of fire and watch as suzie falls from the sky. So the mentality I have seen since living in Mn is shoot at any duck because it is probably the only duck you might see today! Not my mentality mind you. I grew up hunting the outdoors of Az and have been made sick of the amount of slob hunters here in the midwest! Also, I know not all hunters in the midwest are it is just I have seen an awful lot since moving here!


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## Eric Hustad (Feb 25, 2002)

Personally I don't care where a person is from, but if you are an experienced hunter and come back to the hotel with a bunch of hens I have lost respect for you. Don't get me wrong sometimes a hen gets shot etc. and younger hunters are still learning how to pick out birds so I have no problems with that. The excuse that we need to shoot hens to fill a limit is sad and I don't buy "We have a limited time to hunt so we have to fill out no matter what." They are ducks, if you need the meat that bad get another job. Part of the hunting challege is picking out the right duck, and being proud about being a good sportsman.....


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## Tony Vandemore (Dec 17, 2003)

Face...I wasn't implying anything towards you....just the concept. Sad thing is that mindset is not only in MN. You hear it down here as well....everybody knows them Arkies aren't afraid to wack their suzies...  lol


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Just thought I'd mention the limit in Saskatchewan is 8 ducks per day. I think the only limitation is on pintails. 8 hens per day...who's setting those limits?


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## fishhook (Aug 29, 2002)

field hunter are you kidding me??? That is horrible.


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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Your'e right...8 per day of anything,any species...except only 3 Pintails.

I think Mexico is higher than that.


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

You have to realize those places are the beginning of all flyways and the end of all flyways. Plus the amount of hunters in each area doesn't even come close to the states! The pacific flyway has always been 7 duck limits for as long as I can remember which......what was I talking about?


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## nickle ditch (Aug 26, 2002)

What's the limit in North Dakota guy's?


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

Five drakes no hens!!! Besides hens ruin the pictures!!
Henbusters=dipsh*ts dd:


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## Brad Anderson (Apr 1, 2002)

So are ya gonna tell me I can't shot a doe either. If somebody wants to shoot hens, whatever. If somebody wants to shoot a doe, whatever. DO NOT call people unethical or slobs for shooting hens.

If it is illegal to shoot hen pheasants, why can you shoot hen mallards?That is what I don't understand. Shooting hen mallards should be illegal. Until then, fire away.


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## FACE (Mar 10, 2003)

There is a huge difference between the two!!!
That is between monogomous and polygamous animals!
There really is no such thing as an overharvest of roosters when it comes to pheasants unless you somehow miraculously wiped out every last one...highly impossible. But by harvesting hens it would cause a drastic population decrease. Deer-every doe of age to breed has two and sometimes three fawn, tough to over harvest because of implemented restriction(I.E. management). And ducks by shooting hens since they are the main part of the duck factory (dead hens and drakes haven't produced duckling as far as I know) by killing too many hens runs the risk of another decrease in population-also tightly regulated. The problem lies within the situations where many folks only mallards or pinnies or woodies in the bag are hen limits and if that were always tyhe case that is what they are overharvesting. I still never criticize anyone who occasionally shoots a hen but if that makes up too much of a persons bag then they need to reevalluate their thinking.
Granted weather conditions also play a huge part in population as well.
:2cents: FACE


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## Field Hunter (Mar 4, 2002)

Just out of Curiosity. Is the goal of the US Fish and Wildlife to continue to increase the duck population every year or do they have a target goal every year as to what they think the populations should be in a given year? Maybe that might explain a limit that includes hen mallards, besides the fact they know people are going to make a mistake or two. Green heads look great but no one should belittle anyone for shooting hens as long as it's legal. Let the biologists do their job.


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## Tony Vandemore (Dec 17, 2003)

Aren't the folks with Delta Waterfowl who developed the Voluntary Restraint program, in fact, biologists? People say you can't stockpile ducks....apparently some biologists must think otherwise. The State of Illinois has cut their limit on hen mallards to one...reasoning was it that by cutting the limit to one it was going to send something like 26,000 more hen mallards south. Now you get every state in the Central and Mississippi Flyways to at least cut their hen limits to one AND you get optimal breeding conditions......my guess would be there would be a fair amount more mallets come down the flyway the following fall......


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## Scraper (Apr 1, 2002)

Bottom line is... Dead hens don't lay eggs.

Try your best to identify your ducks and let the hens go, but don't drive into a bridge abutment because you accidentally whack a hen every once in a while.


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## bchunter (Jan 29, 2004)

i'm no bioligest but if you shoot all the drakes and no hens that would only leave the suzies to have fun on the breading grounds.and i dont think ducks swing both ways.hehehehe


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