# your go to caliber/ammo for predators



## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

I have been shootin dog for awhile and i am gettin tired of sewing up holes. anybody have a load that doesn't open them up to bad. I know their is no perfect round but i would love to hear yalls input
204.
32 v-max
40 v-max

233
50 v-max
55 tnts

243
100 soft point
75 v-max
55 silvertips
74 tnts
58 v-max moly
85 TTSX (what i use right now) still on the fences shot two so far and one was a head shot that opened way up and one low damage
12
4 buck
T


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

Head shots usually open up no matter what your using.

.22-250 with 50 grain Nosler BT's (on the slow side) is what I shoot. Good balance between dog stopping power and reduced damage. The "perfect" round. :wink:


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

x2

I shoot the 50g Nosler Ballistic tips in my 22-250 @3400fps. It is very decent on fur.

xdeano


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## farmerj (Jun 19, 2004)

.243 savage with 58 gr hornady. 75 gr and 85 gr HP rounds.


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## Sask hunter (Sep 11, 2008)

I use a 22-250 shooting 52 gr bthp sierra match kings. They go about 3300-3400. If they hit the spine it's a big hole, shoulder blades are not too bad 3 inch entrance and no exit but if I miss these 2 things there is usually no exit or a dimed size exit. I have also never had a coyote run after being shot yet.


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

243 with 85gr Sierra Varminter


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Airforce: What have you been shooting -- caliber and bullet -- that's been punching holes in hides? I can see why you're wondering about it because if your prices down there are similar to what we're seeing up here damage means a $10-$15 hide, not worth the time to skin it out, ship it pay commission, drumming and royalty. 

I usually get clobbered when I say this but my .204 spitting a 40-grain Berger loaded at about 3750 leaves very, very minimal hide damage. Sewing up hides may be cool for Gucci or Versace but it doesn't fit my style. Kdog, where are you when I need you? :rollin:

Good luck. Saskcoyote


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

I was a die hard 58 gr v-max molly fan cause the speed was hot 3700+ sub 3/4 moa and it bucked wind pretty well but like you said prices are down and i am tired of sewing. i did lay down 3 last night with the ttsx rounds and i have to say that the solid copper rounds did not do too bad. I have a 204 but i can't seem to put down the 243 the list i put at the bottom of my post is the list of rounds i have tried or own i have killed dogs with all but my 204. Moon is out boys gotta get my howl on OOOOOOWWWWWW :sniper:


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

so i would like to recant TTSX are hard on dogs shot four tonight better buy stock in 6lb fireline cause i am gonna be stitching till the next full moon. I did have an idea of why i blow them apart. I think its cause i have rotten luck, I am a bad shot and i aim for that front shoulder. I missed one at 25 yards tonight then flatten a late comer at 259.....go figure i guess you throw enough lead in the air and you are gonna kill a coyote at some point. anybody try full metal jackets?


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

yeah you want to stay away from the FMJ's. in 243 try the 87g hollow point match made by hornady. They tend to leave smaller holes, and have a decent bc (.376) for the 243.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=497960

FMJ's tend to spin when they hit some, so they rip the crap out of the hides.

xdeano


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

saskcoyote said:


> I usually get clobbered when I say this but my .204 spitting a 40-grain Berger loaded at about 3750 leaves very, very minimal hide damage. Sewing up hides may be cool for Gucci or Versace but it doesn't fit my style. Kdog, where are you when I need you? :rollin:
> 
> Good luck. Saskcoyote


I recently got a .204 too and ive been pondering what ammo i should get for it. Readily available i can get 32 and 40 grain v-max, 34 grain jhp, and i believe a 34 or 38 grain berger. Are the vmax's very good? I've been kindof questionable as to how good they really are, and will the hollow points blow a big hole in something? I'm looking for a good mixture of stopping power and not totally destroying something since i occasionaly shoot ***** with it, but theres alot of brush close to my spots so im not a big fan of tracking.


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

XDeano-BBJ. I quit using 50 bt's because of to many lost coyotes. don't know the spped for sure but books says 3800. maybe i was pushing them to hard???. chest shots seemed to be"ok" but T.H.S's were not good :shake: i've now been shooting the sieera 55btsp's #1365 and have been super pleased with them. and they are just as accurate out of both my 250's. even T.H.S's put them down with boring regularity :thumb:


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## kdog (Mar 13, 2007)

coyote_buster, and airforcehobit,

I have recently purchased a Volquartsen semi-auto in .204. I can tell you that I am well pleased with the .204. On a recent trip I was fortunate enough to connect with several coyotes shooting the Berger 40 gr bullet, and only had 2 coyotes out of 16 run off. They were both due to bad hits/flesh wounds. One was finished off by my calling buddy (with his .20 Tactical), and the other was still running hard when I gave up the track a mile later. The 14 that died, did so convincingly. Many were bang-flops, with the others spinning/running off a short distance before piling up. The 40 gr Bergers worked very well, but a few of the coyotes became more dead than they needed to be. I will be experimenting with the 35 gr Bergers on my next trip, as I have heard great things about them from people who are experienced callers.

I would stay away from all plastic tipped bullets for coyotes with the exception of the 40 gr Nosler BT. This bullet has a much thicker base on the jacket, and therefore penetrates more and splashes less on impact. The hollow points, such as the Bergers are generally going to penetrate better than the plastic tipped bullets by design. The plastic tipped bullets are simply an oversized hollowpoint cavity, with a plastic tip and stem that acts as a means to more rapidly force the hollow point open upon impact. This is why you hear of so many instances of coyotes running off - even with a solid hit, when using some of the plastic tipped bullets.

As to caliber, I can tell you - as someone who has shot a few coyotes with everything from a .17 centerfire to a 220 Swift, that it all comes down to energy. Basically, velocity and bullet weight combine to distribute this energy. I will always choose the .17 centerfire or the .204 when it comes to a fur friendly load for that reason. My .223 is good in this respect as well.
Just remember, regardless of what other opinions may be out there, that the energy that is sent down range to your target will either be absorbed by your target (DRT), or will create a hole in your target, and continue on it's way until all energy is spent. Any energy not needed or absorbed creates damage, plain and simple.

Sask,

Always good to hear from you. BTW, I'm always here when you need me. 8) Also, I have been using your load of 28 gr of H4895 with the 40 gr Bergers (actually 28.2) with great success. Thank you!

Your pal,
KD


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## coyotebuster (Oct 8, 2007)

.243 with sierra 85gr BTHPs, really pleased with these loads so far. Shot 2 this last weekend, first one facing me, no exit hole. Second one, broadside behind the shoulder, exit hole maybe the size of a quarter.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

bearhunter said:


> XDeano-BBJ. I quit using 50 bt's because of to many lost coyotes. don't know the spped for sure but books says 3800. maybe i was pushing them to hard???. chest shots seemed to be"ok" but T.H.S's were not good :shake: i've now been shooting the sieera 55btsp's #1365 and have been super pleased with them. and they are just as accurate out of both my 250's. even T.H.S's put them down with boring regularity :thumb:


Its been my experience with any of the "plastic" tip bullets, that slower is better. Im shooting mine at 3650, xdeanos even slower than this. (Just one example of how speed isnt everything, and in some cases can be detrimental.)

To fast and you get no penetration and surface splash, which loses a guy lots of coyotes, and makes for extra sewing on the ones he does recover. I think this is why guys speak ill of BTs, try slowing em down and I think youll be much happier with the results.

I do know the 50 Nosler BT is a more substantial built bullet than the 50 grain v-max. Thicker jacket and heavier base, this is why I choose the Nolsers. Ive just never been a fan of the lighter v-max bullets, not until you get up into the 80some grain range. But you still have to slow it down some for best results from what ive seen.

The other reason for slowing em down, they just shoot such darn tiny groups!

Used to shoot 52 grain Sierra HPs. Not a bad bullet by any means, but was getting more exits than I do with the Noslers. Since switching to Noslers, I havent felt the need to experiment any further.


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## duckp (Mar 13, 2008)

I shoot em fast with real tiny groups and have no problems at all with 'splash' except on the offside which I don't care about.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

I recently got a .204 too and ive been pondering what ammo i should get for it. Readily available i can get 32 and 40 grain v-max, 34 grain jhp, and i believe a 34 or 38 grain berger. Are the vmax's very good? I've been kindof questionable as to how good they really are, and will the hollow points blow a big hole in something? I'm looking for a good mixture of stopping power and not totally destroying something since i occasionaly shoot ***** with it, but theres alot of brush close to my spots so im not a big fan of tracking.[/quote]

The only V-maxs I've used were the 40-grainers in my .223 traveled a 3425-3450. Lost two coyotes that day and never used them again. Seems the reading and forum info I got made it clear V-maxs were better suited for little critters and yotes. I can't say I've heard of 34 or 38 grain Bergers in .204. I strictly use 40s. Quite a few .204 shooters are believers in 35 grainers but I'm pretty satisfied with the 40s. I haven't tried 35s so I can't help you there.

So far using the .204 I've only had one run-off and that was a yote that snuck in behind me and winded me. I couldn't stop him so I let him have it when he was quartering away. He did the spin but I couldn't tag him with a follow-up shot and he disappeared behind a hill. The hides on the others I've shot -- except the odd time -- had minimal hide damage. Once Kdog cooks up some 35-grain loads, he can give you a solid field report.

Good luck. Saskcoyote


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

I haven't had any problems with the 50g nosler ballistic BT on coyotes. They've worked very well for me since about 1997 or so. I've also shot the 52g HP and they work well. I currently use the 22-250 as a back up gun. But i typically start carrying it about may and use it tell about july, then i switch to the 308 which I've been using since 2004 on coyotes and it makes it a bit nicer for long range hang-up during late season calling. my exit on the 308 is less than a quarter and most time with broadside shots it's about the size of your pinky. Hit and bone and it opens up like a can of tuna. some say over kill, but it can't run if it's dead. I can't afford to have runners.

xdeano


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## jonnyr7 (Jan 5, 2010)

I finally shot one with my .223 and I was pretty impressed with it. The dog dropped in his tracks, and there was a very small entry hole and no exit. I was using a Hornady 55 gr. V-max and I think it flies at about 3200 FPS, guess that's pretty slow compared to a lot of you guys that shoot 22-250's. Of course I have only shot the one with it so we'll see what happens down the road.


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## saskcoyote (Dec 30, 2006)

Whoops! Better clarify. When I said I had only one run-off using the .204 and 40-grain Berger, that's one run-off this year out of the 19 dogs I've shot. Last year, had two run-offs. All three came on running shots. I use a .223 as well with 50-grain TNTs and my run-off percentages are nearly identical. The .223, however, leaves a little bigger hole more of the time.

With all the combinations guys are using that don't seem to create much fur damage, there are a lot of options and some are as close to the perfect fur round as one is likely to find.

Good luck. Saskcoyote


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

I have had luck in the past with barnes rounds has anybody tried the 62 gr varmit grenade in 243?


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

maybe they werent bergers then, ir emeber the one store i went to has the vmax and one other thing, maybe it was along the lines of nosler


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

airforcehobbit,

in regards to the varmint grenades, I've shot them, they shoot great, fly true, but don't penetrate worth a crap. I had them hopped up a bit in my Sako. But they're accurate as heck. What happens with those rounds because they're such a thin jacket and have those little fragments is that they just explode like a grenade about an inch into the animal and create huge splash holes. So on coyotes i'd stay away from them completely, they are called Varmint Grenades for a reason, they should be used on "Varmint" no predator. I have shot a dozen coyotes with them and they did kill a few, but i had more alive when i got up to them than any anything. I also had a few run off, on perfect broad side shots, that i didn't find.

That being said, they're unreal on prairie dogs if you go out west, i'd recommend these rounds. Lots of bits and pieces. :thumb:

xdeano


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## bearhunter (Jan 30, 2009)

agree with xdeano on the V.G.'s. absolute horrible coyote bullet. good for fox and jacks though. i'm talking about the ..22 36's


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

thanks for the heads up i was wondering about how bad they would splash cause they did not even penitrate a cherry tomato. I found some nosler 55 i am gonna try that for a box of two then if thats not the answer i will spend some time at the range with the 204 and build up some range cards for 45 gr SP and 40/32 gr tipped rounds......... more to come


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## devildogg (Nov 21, 2009)

An excellent bullet my partner and i have been useing for about 5 yrs now is a 52gr match varmint berger flat base bullet out of our 22-250's and they are by far the most fur friendly bullet we've found. entrance hole is the size of the bullet and no exit ever if you hit them square spine shots are a mess. we have tried 52 gr match hornady 50 and 55 gr vmax 52 gr sierra and nosler bt. the berger is by far a deadly fur friendly bullet. im shooting them at 3650 and my partner is shooting them at around 3500 out of our kimbers.


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

devildog,
Those are hand loads i am guessing? I don't reload i really should get into it but i have to many hobbies as is. I should have said this up front ..........I am looking for factory loads but thanks for your input i might ask my friend to work up some loads if i have to.


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## barebackjack (Sep 5, 2006)

If you dont reload, id buy some various 50something grain stuff for the .223, something 60-90 grain for the .243. See what shoots most accurate, and screw fur friendliness. Accuracy trumps small holes in my book.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

.308 168 amax not fur freindly at all but i just want them dead


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## xdeano (Jan 14, 2005)

KurtR, The 178g A-max are kind of hard on fur too. :lol: You just have to decide which half is less sewing.

xdeano


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

ha ha ha if your not gonna skin them then why trackem i have cannons but i hate to waste an animal and not use it some way.. i love all your input and i know this is a open topic but i am lookin for a little both damage/fast kill i will let you know how i do with the noslers but by all means keep writing i love to hear everybody out


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## Dolphinswin (Nov 17, 2010)

airforcehobit said:


> ha ha ha if your not gonna skin them then why trackem i have cannons but i hate to waste an animal and not use it some way.. i love all your input and i know this is a open topic but i am lookin for a little both damage/fast kill i will let you know how i do with the noslers but by all means keep writing i love to hear everybody out


Can someone help? Say i wanted to bring a yote to a fur trader, how do i do this? Do i have to skin it or can i bring the carcass?


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

you can bring the whole animal, i would suggest doing it this way until you start getting alot maybe then invest in some stuff for skinning them, and make sure you have all the permits before you go there


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## Dolphinswin (Nov 17, 2010)

o hell I need permits? Im 16 can i achieve these permits?


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

i dont know about north dakota or wherever your at but i think you better get yourself online and start looking up the regs, down here in nebraska i gota have a furbearers and a habitat stamp, probably something similar there to


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## Varmint_Hunter_007 (Nov 29, 2007)

750 gr Hornady .50 round...No bullet holes to sew up :wink: :sniper:


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

ha ha ha i watched a friends crack one with a 750 a-max ......their was nothing to sew!!! :lol: and the round cost more then the dog :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## CoyoteBlitz (Apr 11, 2007)

i saw some 35 grn NBT's today for the 250. that seems a little small for the 250, or is it not? sounds like youd get some splash wounds if you didnt slow em down, prolly killer on pdogs. anyone ever tried a light bullet like that?


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

i have tried 55s in a 243 and the accuracy seems i little loser not sure if its just my gun or if they are pushing the round a bit too hard. i have seen lots of 55s and 50s in a 250 that were very accurate and the dia. is the only difference from the 243 but in the same breath winchester had 40s for the 250 and i heard a couple guys say that they were squirrly aswell. i would bet hand loaders could work up a good load but if you are gonna slow it down you might as well grain it up a bit for better terminal ballistics


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## Centerfire (Jan 13, 2006)

243 win - 55 grn Nosler BT - Most accurate load in both my 243's
223 rem - Nosler 55 grn Nosler BT

243 - 2 coyotes no exit 
223 rem - multi coyotes quarter size exits on avg


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## airforcehobit (Aug 6, 2008)

tried out those 55 gr (243) noslers today gun loves them on paper and through the graph. Can't wait to see how they do on the dogs 
thanks guy


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## coyote_buster (Mar 11, 2007)

What would a 30 grain NTX be good for? Target shooting. Are the accutips just pretty much a different brands vmax? How do the federals ballistic tip compare to a vmax or berger? The last two questions are speaking on the basis of whether they would make a suitable coyote/varmit bullet. The accuracy part is something i will figure out on my own.


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## neb_bo (Feb 3, 2007)

if i remember right, the accutips are a bonded big game bullet, they are made by nosler. the federal bt's are the same bullets as the regular ones, just in a federal factory load.

i shoot coyotes with 50 gr vmaxs out of a 223. supposed to be about 3350. i dont skin, but mostly no exits, and no blow ups. seems like if i get an exit its must just be the base or a large fragment. my favorite shot is a facing/ or quartering on chest/ shoulder shot. NEVER, i repeat- NEVER have i had one run of more than a few yards with this. a bad hit, yes, but put it in the front half of a coyotes center mass, and they die quick. i am excited to try the new 53gr vmax. havent seen em for sale yet though.


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