# 243 lever action



## Vernon.Miller (Apr 25, 2007)

I have a predicament on my hands. My wife has been willing to go deer hunting the last 2 years, but I fear she wont keep it up. However the only rifle I had that she "could" shoot was my 30-06. I did some adjusting this fall and now have a .308 and a 243 both Tikka T3s. But now she is gripping because she shots left handed and I bought a right handed 243. I had the same issue with shotguns until I found a Browning 20g BPS. This way she can shoot it or I can shot it (or anyone else for that matter). So I have been trying to find a happy median, but could find one. There fore my question is: is there a lever action rifle that spits the casings out the bottom? or any other (pump, semi, etc) for that matter?

I hate to have guns in the safe that will just be collecting dust.


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## Kelly Hannan (Jan 9, 2007)

trade the 308 or 243 for a lefty. Or what about a Single shot?


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## specialpatrolgroup (Jan 16, 2009)

Browning BLR lever actions, Savage model 99, Remington pump action rifle, there are lots of options if you want a gun both of you can shoot. Nothing that ejects from the bottom like a shotgun. Anohter option would be an AR type rifle, you can have 1 lower and you can each have your own seperate upper.


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## Vernon.Miller (Apr 25, 2007)

A single Shot might actually be the best option. I want her to have a 1 shot 1 kill mentality. The other thing is this gun will likely be passed down to my son (just a baby now), but with a single shot, he should learn to choose his shots or be walking back to the truck for more ammo (assuming I only give him 2 shells :lol: ).


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

A lot of knowledgeable lefties shot bolts when bolts were only a right man's game,,,for the simple reason,,,accuracy wise they're were generally the best choice.
I've never taught one of my former flames, wives or otherwise, to shoot. Chauvinistic maybe,,,but then I'm still alive.
If your son is right handed,,,your wife will understand and make do. :lol:


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

I shoot left handed and once had a BLR in 308 and had no problem with right side ejection. I have had pump shotguns with both bottom and right side ejection and again no problems.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

I think your single shot idea is a good one if she feels comfortable with that route. I would look at the Thompson Center Encore, you can get many different barrels for this rifle that will make it usable by everyone. And they are decent rifles.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/encore.php

huntin1


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

I feel that single shots, by not allowing, if needed, a fast follow up shot, may allow poorly shot or missed animals to get away. Any repeater can be used as a single shot if only one round is loaded into it. Accurate bullet placement should be a priority, regardless of the number of rounds a rifle holds. If one is going to wait for the right moment to shoot with a single shot, then that same right moment to shoot should be observed, when using repeater.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

Jig Master said:


> I feel that single shots, by not allowing, if needed, a fast follow up shot, may allow poorly shot or missed animals to get away. Any repeater can be used as a single shot if only one round is loaded into it. Accurate bullet placement should be a priority, regardless of the number of rounds a rifle holds. If one is going to wait for the right moment to shoot with a single shot, then that same right moment to shoot should be observed, when using repeater.


True, but, just because you have a single shot doesn't mean you are not able to accomplish a fast follow-up if needed. Back in the 80's I had a T/C Aristocrat single shot in 308, I could shoot that rifle faster and more accurately than most people could work a bolt on their bolt guns. It just takes a little practice.

huntin1


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

My first firearm was a H&R single shot 20 gauge shotgun. It ruined me for repeaters, because instead of cycling the actions immediately after firing, I just look to see where the shot went and game, if I missed, gets away. Yes, one can practice to shoot a single shot fast, but with the same amount of practice, one can learn to shoot a repeater even faster. For me, the challenge is not to shoot my guns (other than semi autos) rapidly, but to remember to quickly chamber a second round, in case another shot is needed. Any repeater can become a single shot, but no single shot can become a repeater. Since I have hunted with both single shots and repeaters, I can say that having only one shot available does not change the way I shoot, but sometimes it does affect the outcome of the hunt. I am right handed left eye dominant. I shoot shotguns left handed, bows left handed, rifles either hand and pistols right handed. I don't see what the problem is for a lefty to adjust to a right handed bolt action. If forced to, I would learn to shoot everything right handed. When it comes to center fire rifles, I"m not ready to settle for the limited selection of cartridges offered to left handed shooters.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

And you can train yourself to rapidly reload the chamber of a single shot just as fast as you can cycle the bolt on a repeater. And just like a repeater, you don't have to shoot again. The point is you can have a follow-up round in the chamber of a single shot just as fast as you can put one in a bolt gun, with the proper practice.

To each their own.

huntin1


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

No matter how much practice, a single shot will never beat a lever gun, pump gun semi auto, or double barrel in the hands of and equally practiced shooter. Where is the popularity of single shot shotguns in hunting? I sometimes hunt with a single shot 22 for squirrels, knowing that if I miss,well it's only a squirrel. A deer is a different story. Much more time and money is invested in this pursuit, and if I miss, it's harder to think, well it was only a deer. Yes, a person can train themselves to shoot a single shot fast, but how many people actually put in that much time? Shooting at a target is different than shooting at game, when one's nerves kick in. Bottom line is, that if single shot rifles were the be all end all of tools for hunting, the various repeating actions we have today would never have been invented. I believe the original question was what 243 for a lady that shoots left handed. The 243 Winchester is a popular cartridge and is readily available in left handed bolt actions.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

OK then.

Yeah, I guess I wouldn't know anything about shooting at stuff besides targets.

As I've said before though, I have stayed at a Holiday Inn once. :wink:

huntin1


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## southdakbearfan (Oct 11, 2004)

I would be willing to put a lot of money down that percentage-wise, those that hunt with a repeater (magazine full of ammo) wound and loose way more big game animals than those that go with single shots. That is percentage-wise, not pure numbers.

I hunt with both, and the mind just seems to work a lot different when you have one shot to get the job done, and not the false sense of security that 3-5 more rounds gives some people, not all, but some.


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

I would think that because repeaters are more popular than single shots, of course more game will be shot at using them, and yes there will be more wounded or lost game, but there will be more game successfully taken as well. I have hunted, and still hunt with both. The only confidence I have when using a repeater is that I know that more than one round is in the gun, but it doesn't mean that I will be able to get more than one round off at game, only that it may be possible. I believe that if there were no such things as farms and super markets, and we were forced to live on what we shoot, with today's guns, single shots would go the way of the dodo bird. Most of our musket toting ancestors went to repeaters as soon as they were invented. Hunting with a single shot doesn't make one a better hunter, just a limited one. Anyone can have the single shot experience by just loading one round into their repeaters. Try this enough times, and when it becomes apparent how many opportunities are lost, well instead of trading the rifle in, just load more rounds into it and enjoy.


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

> Accurate bullet placement should be a priority, regardless of the number of rounds a rifle holds. If one is going to wait for the right moment to shoot with a single shot, then that same right moment to shoot should be observed, when using repeater.


I agree with this 100%



> Hunting with a single shot doesn't make one a better hunter, just a limited one. Anyone can have the single shot experience by just loading one round into their repeaters. Try this enough times, and when it becomes apparent how many opportunities are lost, well instead of trading the rifle in, just load more rounds into it and enjoy.


This......I don't agree with at all. Nearly all the "good" shooters I know started out with a single shot .22(or even a bb gun) or else were only given 1 round at a time. "Make it count".......I don't know how many times I heard that when I was given my 1 round.

If the top quote is truely observed one would never need a second shot. You will never lose an opportunity with a single shot vs a repeater due to having more rounds. Killing an animal isn't the be all end all in hunting. Know your and your rifle's limitations, and only take shots you know you can make.(get closer, find a more stable platform, wait for a better angle, or even put the rifle down and just watch the animal walk away)

I do know a lot of people who needlessly put an extra round or two into a deer when the first shot was a good hit. They just want the animal to be DRT. I think we put too much into that mentality. The only thing "extra" rounds do for most people is allow them to take shots they don't think they can make with one round.

I also gotta agree that a skilled shooter would be very, very,very hard pressed to load and fire 5 shots from a T/C Encore or similar as fast as another skilled shooter firing 5 shots with an average bolt gun. Or even 2 for that matter.


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

We really aren't talking about a competition between two skilled shooters and who would get five rounds off the fastest. We are talking about the time it takes to load a follow-up round in case it is needed. With just a little practice that follow-up round can be loaded into a single shot as fast as one can be loaded into a bolt gun, in most situations.

No where in any of my posts did I say that single shots are the end all, be all, but they are a viable hunting rifle. And no where in my posts did I say that the repeater is bad, I shoot a bolt gun by choice. And I have very rarely needed a follow-up shot, but the round is chambered anyway.

Our musket toting ancestors went to repeaters because they, unlike us, were often confronted by roving bands of hostile indians and outlaws. When one enters into any type of battle with a firearm, a repeater comes in kinda handy. The "nerves" that occur when a buck jumps and runs away from you are decidedly different than the "nerves" that occur when some one else is shooting at you. And they, like us, tended to like having the next greatest thing whenever it came out.

Bottom line here is get what makes you happy, but don't discredit a single shot because it "can't" be loaded as fast as a repeater.

huntin1


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

Hunting never goes as planned. One can take all the time in the world to make sure that first shot is perfect, and something can go wrong. A gust of wind, a twig, the deer moving at the last moment, or anything I haven't mentioned could cause a miss or a poorly placed bullet. One should always strive to make that first shot count, but if it doesn't, that's when the extra rounds come in handy.


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## PPiazza (Jan 14, 2012)

I have the same problem. The solution I found was at a used gun store. It was 243 in a model 99 savage. Great gun its liget, lever and very nice to shootm. My wife loved it.. I liked it so much I started to look for one in 308 to replace my right handed bolt.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

I am left hand and have shot just about every type of rifle I can think of. Most right handed guns do not toss the brass into the face or even close to it. So if you want a lever gun as long as she can work the safety you should be fine.

With that being said left handed bolt guns hold their value pretty well. You can always see if she likes one rifle over the other and then get her one of those. Then if she decides she does not want to hunt anymore and your kid is not left handed sell it. If she is small you can get a youth model. The stocks are smaller and makes the rifle a little lighter.

Chuck Norris will never have a heart attack. His heart isn't nearly foolish enough to attack him.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I also hunt with many types of rifles from single shot to AR15's. I am setting up my new Custom Remington 300 Win Mag to shoot 210 gr Berger VLD single shot, and all other bullets will fit in the magazine. I purchased a new 6.5X284 Cooper last year and I bought that in a Phoenix single shot. I also have a 45/70 in 1885 Winchester, and other single shots. I have never felt under gunned with a single shot.
I agree with Savage260 and huntin1, and PPiazza took the words right out of my mouth recommending the old Savage 99.

On the other hand the Thompson Center that huntin1 mentioned would be a very good option. It would not be that much money to get into another caliber once you own the frame.

Although I agree that one can limit themselves with a bolt action just like a person with a single shot, my experience has been that on average people who grow up shooting single shots are nearly always better hunters.

When shooting a single shot the best I can recommend is using a cartridge carrier designed for your stock and convert it to fit your wrist. Two shots on your wrist is all you need. Well, with the 1885 Winchester it's the best option, or the Ruger #1, or for that matter the Thompson Center single shot, because when you lever the falling block down (or break the action) if you wear the carrier with the cartridges on the bottom of your wrist they are right there next to the chamber for a fast reload. Most times you never need it.

Way off subject, but I seen the Thompson Center (bolt action) Icon's at the Dry Dock in Carrington for under $450. I sure would like one in their new 6.5 Creedmore. 

Bottom line is, yes a person with a bolt action can show the same restraint as a person with a single shot, but most don't. One very interesting thing I have noticed over the years. If you see a man carrying a single shot you will not see him shooting from his truck, you will not find him blasting carelessly, you will often find a person more concerned about sport than killing. You will often find the same mentality as a bow hunter, or one who hunts with a muzzleloader.


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

Plainsmen, you are making way to many insinuations about hunters that you have never met and do not know. A person hunting with a single shot is just that, a hunter with a single shot, not a superior shot or a better hunter. I have read the same elitist attitudes toward inline muzzleloader hunters by traditional muzzleloader hunters, crossbow hunters being frowned upon by vertical bow hunters, and compound bow hunters being frowned upon by by recurve and longbow hunters. It's just not called for.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Jig Master, I'm not judging anyone or making any insinuations. Anyone who throws lead or tosses arrows is a fellow sportsmen to me. As long as they don't shoot deer on ice, coyotes tied up, or elk in catch pens etc. 

That said, although it's been 50 years since I run around with my young friends I still remember it. The worst shot still is the guy who got one of those new Nylon 66 Remington 22 rifles. The best shot still is the kids who grew up with a single shot. That single shot ingrained the purposeful shot mentality into them at a young age. They Nylon 66 guy is still a spray and pray fellow. No elitism, simply observation that includes a couple of dozen personal acquaintances.

Further, I don't like the bickering between bow hunters etc. I shoot compounds, recurves, and longbows. What I take when I walk out the door depends on my mood that day. Same with rifles. I do find the single shot a lot of fun and since you can't reload as fast as you pointed out more of a challenge. So on those days I am in the mood for my longbow I may also be in the mood for one of my single shots.

This is my attitude: There are many find sportsmen out there. Some shoot single shots, some shoot bolt actions, some shoot semi-auto. However, the guy who limits himself to a single shot is looking for a sporting challenge and I doubt you will ever find that person doing anything the lazy way. That in no way insinuates that a bolt action hunter is a lazy hunter. We all know road hunters exist. I just can't imagine a single shot guy being a road hunter that's all. They just have a different mentality than that.

So for your attempt to downplay the single shot I would suggest your getting a little elitist attitude there my friend. :wink:


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

Plainsmen, we are getting off the left handed shooter looking for an appropriate rifle track a bit, and maybe it was my fault, although I do shoot lefty with most but not all shoulder fired weapons. I too started out with a single shot in the form of a shot gun. I didn't notice any difference between me and my friends shooting repeaters, and that was back in the early to mid 60s. I remember the Nylon 66 very well, though I never owned one. I still hunt with a single shot 22 for squirrels on occasion (Savage Anschutz single shot bolt action) but notice no difference in my shooting from when I'm shooting one of my bolt action repeaters. Success ratio is the same for both types of rifles, but it's only squirrels. I have noticed that after muzzle loader deer season when shotgun season kicks in that after I shoot, I forget to cycle the action on my pump guns, because I'm to busy trying to analyze how the deer reacted to the shot. So what I'm saying is just because one carries a repeater, doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to spray and pray every time a game animal appears before them. Plainsman, when you do choose to use a repeater, do you just spray bullets downrange when you see a deer? Probably not.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

> Plainsman, when you do choose to use a repeater, do you just spray bullets downrange when you see a deer? Probably not.


You would be right 95% of the time. The only time you would be wrong is when I get multiple coyotes in, kill one, and if they get to 200 yards and look like they are going to get over a hill or into a ditch the old AR can kick up quite a storm.  Most of the time though I carry a 22-250 bolt action. I do however at times pack my new Cooper single shot. Like I said it depends on my mood. I don't like to do the same thing all of the time.

If I buy a bear license in Montana I will be calling and using my 45/70 single shot. I'll also be sitting with my back to a rock wall or something too.

If I only had one rifle (scares me to think about it) it would be a bolt action. Perhaps a 308. As far as left handed I know a lot a few left handed guys who shoot right handed bolt actions. They can't get the rifle they want in left, so they get the rifle they like in right hand. I guess to them the rifle and cartridge available or something like that makes it more appealing than a left hand in a different rifle. I can shoot right or left, but I'm not as fast left handed. I may have to go that way though since I have problems with my right eye.

My style of shooting off a bipod makes left hand not to tough.


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## Vernon.Miller (Apr 25, 2007)

there are some pretty darn good point in all the "conversation". I am thinking that for now (or until I have the extra $) she will be shooting the 243 righty. She had used her cousins 243 righty for 2 years and complained about having to switch hands to cycle the round. Other than that is is a simple fact the the bolt can be used a single shot so what would be the point of getting a gun she more than likely wont use any way.

On the side note. I recently sold my semi auto 30-06 for the reasons you guys are mentioning. I didnt have to think about loading another shell, it was just there....... Ammo's cheap why not send another round. I hated hearing that go through my head. Since I knew it was in my head, training my thinking was an option but the nerves wouldnt let it happen. So I decided to make the gun do the thinking for me (at least long enough to think "did I hit it").

Thanks for the input..


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

vernon how does your wife hunt. If she hunts on stand a bipod makes cycling the action a lot easier because she can hold the rear with her left hand and cycle with the left. If your standing up you have to be strong to hold the rifle out forward with the left hand. I can't do that because I shoot mostly heavy barrel rifles. I guess some people can, but that right there tells me not to get in an argument with them. Not while at arms reach anyway. 

Edit: dumb, dumb, dumb. Please insert right where you read left above. :homer:


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## Savage260 (Oct 21, 2007)

While a single shot won't make you a better shot or hunter, it should make you think more about what shots you take and which ones you pass up. It may or may not make you pass up a shot(it should, but some people are just not very smart), it will make you think about it a bit. Of the lazy, slob, lead slingers I would bet 99% or more are using repeaters. A repeater doesn't make you a lazy, slob, lead slinger, but it sure does make it easier to be one!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Savage :thumb: It's just like not all democrats are liberal, but all liberals are democrat.


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## People (Jan 17, 2005)

Savage I like how you said it should make you think about your shots. You are very correct there are slobs that use all kinds of different types of firearms to hunt deer. No matter what you are using a person should think about what they are doing and how they are doing it. That is why I would like to see a shooting test every year to big game hunt in ND.

As most on this sight know I long range hunt. I can go on and on about watching idiots take a shot over their hood at a standing still deer and miss it.

When Chuck Norris makes a burrito, its main ingredient is real toes.


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## KurtR (May 3, 2008)

Just go to the range first week of nov and that proves a shooting test is needed. hiting a card board box at 100'ish yards or so is good for many people then they wonder why they gut shoot 3 deer every year. back to the single shot i am personally not a fan but some like and are very good with them. Best thing is to go shoot the different guns and find the best one. I had a single 20 gauge and it made me pick my shot carefully because it was hard to shoot with tears in my eyes that sob kicked like a mother.


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

As I wrote, I prefer to shoot a long gun left handed because even though I am right handed, I am left eye dominant. When shooting a rifle right handed, I prefer to use a rest whenever possible. A rest works great when trying to support the weight of a heavy rifle with my left hand. While there are different types of rests available on the market, i prefer to use an old crutch that i have carried into the woods for decades. It may look dumb, but a crutch is adjustable for height, has a rubber top that doesn't mare the stock, helps one get around a bit, and the best part is if you already have a pair lying around the house, it's free.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Good Idea Jig Master, and after you shoot your deer you can hobble around on it and someone will drag your deer for you. :rollin:


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## Jig Master (Nov 18, 2011)

Actually, with the aid of a bungee chord, I can carry three or four squirrels wedged into the crutch. For dragging out deer I just started using a hand truck which works great, and once again, if you already have one, try it before spending money for a deer cart. I use rope to secure the deer to the hand truck before moving it.


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

:beer: A guy can always come up with something. I don't remember which magazine it was in but this guy was talking about his outdoor rig. He bought a Sears lawn tractor at a rummage sale for $125. For another $150 he had someone put on four balloon tires. His top end with larger tires was 10 mph, but he had hunted on it, and drug deer with it, for ten years when he wrote the article. he had one of those plastic milk cartons on the top and the cutouts held his bow and a rifle. A little slow, but a lot cheaper than a new Honda or Polaris.

Sorry for getting off subject and just shooting the bull guys. :thumb:


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