# New Federal "Black Cloud" shells?



## diverboy (Jul 5, 2007)

Has anyone seen this new "Black Cloud" shotgun shell on the store shelves yet. It is supposed to be released to the public some time in July, but I have yet been able to find it anywhere. If anyone has found it, have they had a chance to test it out yet. What is the price and do they sell it like the tugsten and bismuth with only 10 shells to a box? I am curious to test it out on some pigeons or crows when the season opens here soon. Of course the adds make it sound like the best thing since sliced bread.


----------



## fungalsnowgoose (Sep 11, 2004)

Gerrells in Devils lake has it on the shelves. I fired some this spring I got through a secret source and it makes big holes or at least the BBB did. It comes in boxes of 25 and you can not use an after market choke with it.


----------



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

Sportsmen's Loft in Minot has them. 19.99 a box and like stated above there are 25 to a box.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

I'm sure it's a good shot like the other expensive stuff, but why can't a guy practice during the off-season? I think if a gun is patterned and you're a decent shot, regular steel will work fine. Am I the only one who gets a bit annoyed by all the new shot that has "long distance knockdown power"? I think encouraging skybusting is a bad path to lead the waterfowl industry down. Let 'em circle again and suddenly it's not so hard. 

Alright....off the soapbox.


----------



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

I agree with you! I will still shoot my standard steel loads that I have been shooting for the last few years!

I don't know what gets decoyed more, waterfowl or waterfowl hunters!


----------



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Chris....I agree 100%.

You now have the extended waterfowl loads and the extended range choke tubes......all of this does not matter if you can't hit the broad side of the barn. I think it is telling young hunters the wrong things.

I am of the old school thinking that practice makes perfect. That is why I shoot as much as time allows me. Get a couple of friends, a box of clays and a case of beer = a fun afternoon. BEER GETS DRANK AFTER THE BOX OF CLAYS IS USED UP!

Or make a game out of it and who ever shoots the poorest of the day busy the first round.


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

When I was young and the first steel shot was out....it was flat out TERRIBLE. The cripple rate was astounding so I'm really happy to see the industry changing in leaps and bounds. But I think steel shot is where it should be and is why all these "new" varieties are coming out.


----------



## WingedShooter7 (Oct 28, 2005)

im a young hunter....

I cant afford to shoot anything over 15 bucks a box.

Some people have to much money to be spending 20 bucks for a box of 10?!?!?!?

The cheap stuff goods it done. If you would like proof i would gladly post up pictures of honkers n ducks taken with 8.99-9.99 shells.

But yeah ive heard about the Black Cloud. It was supposed to be cheaper but i guess not. :-?


----------



## SJB (Jul 2, 2003)

Who needs shells anyway? I just send out my Chocolate Lab to retreive all of the wounded that the dumb skybusters shot at. 
I agree with Chris. The steel we have now is terrific compare to ten years ago.


----------



## USAlx50 (Nov 30, 2004)

federal blue box :beer:


----------



## diverboy (Jul 5, 2007)

I also agree that steel in the last 10 years has come a long way. I hate sky busters myself and would rather not shoot at all rather than cripple and lose a bird. We all know though that late season birds with thick feathers and fat reserves built up on them are tough to kill. I have had numerous times when you clean a late season bird you find that the bb's didn't penetrate the skin into the body. They siimply fall out of the bird when you skin them. This happens even with shots taken at a distance that should be leathal (20 yards). From what I have read is that these bb's have sort of a cutting edge on them that tear through flesh a lot better. If they do truely work better I would buy a couple a boxes to use during late season hunting. However, I have a hard time paying $20 a box and would use them sparringly along side my standard steel loads.


----------



## HATCHETMAN (Mar 15, 2007)

I would agree that steel is all you need for ducks because of their dainty construction, but with those big geese in cold weather I'll take all the extra help I can get...yup, even close up. Steel is a "cutting" shot, to say that it does not have the tendency to transfer it's energy to the target because of it's nature to remain spherical. Hevi-shot, and softer alternatives either due to their mass, shape, or the fact that they deform make them better choices for critters like big tough skinned geese that could use the extra energy. Of course you use what you can afford right? I don't see it as an avenue to encourage skybusting, but rather as an opportunity to make a good shooter a more lethal shooter. The more energy potential you have to transfer to the target, the better chance the target will be immediately immobilized, which I would view as a more humane death....you can never make a critter "too dead".


----------



## honkbuster3 (Jan 11, 2006)

USAlx50 said:


> federal blue box :beer:


 Yup...cant go wrong with it :beer:


----------



## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

I'm another in agreement. The marketing the shot and choke tubes etc for those extra long shots is the wrong message to send, but that is what sells apparently. And every year, some type of new shot comes out that is the new answer and equal or "better than" lead shot used to be. I'll stick with my Winchester steel shot that is made right down the road from me and kills ducks just fine, if I wait till they are close enough. The skybusting around here just seems to get worse every year as more young hunters are taught that as soon as the ducks get below the tree line you start shooting, because and I have heard people say this so many times that they "might scratch one out of the flock." Problem is, with four people in the blind all shooting into a bunch of ducks, they do manage to wound one and bring it down. Most of the time they never find it though. :roll: Ok off of my soapbox now.


----------



## Sportin' Woodies (Jun 26, 2006)

cant remember killing a duck too much


----------



## mach (Aug 29, 2005)

There are a couple reasons why I might not buy them
-cost..I like to spend $15 max
-pellet count might be less
-velocity might be less 1450; i am used to 1550 and the rough edges might slow down the pellet..my timing and lead might change also I am not sure if my rem1100 would cycle
- don't think it would be a long range load
-don't know how they will pattern

If they kill quicker and more decisive thru my 870 then great

Until I get a sample box..I really can't say for sure
just my thoughts


----------



## fungalsnowgoose (Sep 11, 2004)

I know with the BBB I tested that the cutting edges left huge holes in the birds so the breast was almost unsalvagable. So this is something to keep in account too.


----------



## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

pellets with razor blade-like protrusions. What's next, Grape-Shot?

Make mine Federal Premium or Winchester XPert, thanks much...


----------



## dukegoose (Jul 17, 2006)

I shot Xpert Steel 3 inch last year for $6.00 a box out of my 1977 Rem 1100 with a PM. It was the best year I have ever had. The good thing 
about the low priced steel, is it allowed me to practice with it. IE crows and clays. Every make of shell, shots at a diffrent speed. If you are shooting 3 diffrent louds, you will have three diffrent leads.


----------



## universitywaterfowler (Jul 15, 2007)

There are reasons for better shot, its for quicker and more efficient kills, and same goes for chokes. I shoot a patternmaster long-range choke and i'm shooting no further than 30 yards, and yes i know this choke is meant for 40 yard shots. Reason i do this is so that when i hit a bird i know its next destination is the dirt. Yes cheap steel works i have used it many times, however you will find that your higher priced shot will work better and get you more kills. Problem is you wont know if you missed because your using bad steel or if it was just you so noticing the dif. is all kinda trivial. 
either way have fun when your emptying the chamber! :beer:


----------



## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

universitywaterfowler said:


> Yes cheap steel works i have used it many times, however you will find that your higher priced shot will work better and get you more kills. Problem is you wont know if you missed because your using bad steel or if it was just you so noticing the dif. is all kinda trivial.
> either way have fun when your emptying the chamber! :beer:


There's no doubt that the high price stuff has some great knockdown power, but in your case if you're not shooting outside of 30 yards, I don't see the need for it. If everyone patterned their gun and practiced shooting all year, I don't think the expensive stuff is needed. Or you could go the DrakeKiller route where Kevin will get you a sweet tube and tell you what load/brand/model patterns best out of your gun.  I shoot Fed. Premiums 1-1/4 oz. BB 3" that I got for 5 bucks/box at Wally World.


----------



## dukegoose (Jul 17, 2006)

Most of my shots are 10 to 25 yards. With the PM at that range there is little doubt if I have missed or hit my target. I agree that Heavy shot type louds are the most effective way to kill waterfowl. But I think if a hunter knows his range and skill, he can kill waterfowl without crips flying off every other bird.


----------



## ShineRunner (Sep 11, 2002)

I load my own shells but I do buy some on occasion. I have found that you can buy steel shotshells around $10.00 or less a box most any time of the year. My friends and myself have found that using the 1550 fps shells are far superior to the old 1300 fps shells that should only be used at 30 yds or less. ( My opinion.) I shot and hit some geese at about 40 yds and could hear the shot bouncing off their feathers. I still have a bunch of 1300's that I just gave up on using. With steel _SPEED KILLS_!
:beer:


----------



## llalonde (Jul 20, 2007)

I was fortunate enough to test black cloud on late season mallards last winter. 2006-2007. The shell truly has a longer range and much more devastating knock down power than standard steel. (have video to prove it) Very similiar to tungsten loads. Federal claimed it will be much cheaper than tungsten also. Closer to the price of high quality steel loads.
If interested in ballistics on the load check out L.P Brezny's article in shotgun sports


----------



## Yote Killer (Feb 26, 2007)

i dont shoot the expensive stuff because i miss too much! but the ones that i did hit all droped. last season was my first so i am not an expert. but it is one of the most fun game that i have ever hunted!


----------



## bottomfeeder (Jul 21, 2007)

if its 20 bucks for 25 rounds of 12 gauge 3 1/2 that would be dirt cheap where I live. I pay more for regular remington steel. Somehow I know it will be well over 30 bucks.


----------



## Leo Porcello (Jul 10, 2003)

3.5s here were $2 more a box.


----------



## bottomfeeder (Jul 21, 2007)

nice! If I can find it I'm gonna try it. One of the posts said it can't be fired through after market choke tubes. Is that true? I can't find any info online supporting that.


----------



## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

I shot around 5 cases of the cheap stuff last spring and it didnt matter. 50 yard shots are no problem if you know how your gun shoots.

I just dont get how this new shot patterns after all of the concepts towards how uniform the pellet has to be for it to pattern well.
I'm pretty sure the federal blue boxes/red boxes and remington sportsmen have the best shot on the market.


----------



## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

GB3
I didn't realize that you are (in some ways) wise beyond your years.
Jim


----------



## muddy river (Jan 16, 2007)

bottomfeeder said:


> nice! If I can find it I'm gonna try it. One of the posts said it can't be fired through after market choke tubes. Is that true? I can't find any info online supporting that.


I read on another forum that a guy called Federal directly and they told him that these new loads do not work well with Patternmaster choke tubes. He never mentioned other chokes, just the Patternmaster.


----------



## bottomfeeder (Jul 21, 2007)

good to know cause I have a patternmaster on the way.


----------



## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

That is because the patternmaster is designed to strip the wad from the charge at the muzzle. Black Cloud wads are designed to stay with the charge 10-12 feet from the muzzle giving better patterns further out. And it does work!


----------



## TNduckKLR (Aug 5, 2007)

I have a Super Black Eagle 2 with a Kicks High Flyer Full (steel) choke. If I get the new black cloud ammo will it be safe for me to shoot it out this choke??


----------



## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

As far as I know the only choke they advise not using is the Patternmaster choke. That is from a Federal Ammo rep.


----------



## bottomfeeder (Jul 21, 2007)

I had a kicks and it uses a different design than the pattern master. It should be fine.


----------



## TNduckKLR (Aug 5, 2007)

Ok Thanks Guys.... the only reason I asked was because of this post

"Gerrells in Devils lake has it on the shelves. I fired some this spring I got through a secret source and it makes big holes or at least the BBB did. It comes in boxes of 25 and ."*you can not use an after market choke with it.*


----------



## FliesItDies (Aug 17, 2007)

dukegoose said:


> I shot Xpert Steel 3 inch last year for $6.00 a box out of my 1977 Rem 1100 with a PM. It was the best year I have ever had. The good thing
> about the low priced steel, is it allowed me to practice with it. IE crows and clays. Every make of shell, shots at a diffrent speed. If you are shooting 3 diffrent louds, you will have three diffrent leads.


You bought Xpert steel for 6.00 bucks, They're ripping us off in WI. It was 10.00 last year and 10.00 this year too. But it's still cheap and the only stuff I use. Way to go!


----------



## TNduckKLR (Aug 5, 2007)

Just got my case in the mail this week. I will let ya'll know how it does this winter..


----------



## Horsager (Aug 31, 2006)

I can't see where putting wings on your shot helps patterns. They can call them cutting edges if they want, I'm willing to bet that the edges are leftovers from casting the shot instead of dropping it. By not removing the casting marks they are able to make more shot, faster, for less money than if they ground down the casting marks. Then they advertise the unground casting marks as "cutting edges" and all is well. I'll pass.

More rounder is more better when it comes to shotgun pellets.


----------



## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

fungalsnowgoose said:


> I know with the BBB I tested that the cutting edges left huge holes in the birds so the breast was almost unsalvagable. So this is something to keep in account too.


So my question is...

What if some pellets remain in the breast meat when I decide to eat it? Will the "razor edge" of those pellets cut up my esophagus and stomach if I don't happen to bite into them?

And if I bite into one of those pellets... Is my dentist going to retire off my dental bill?

Quick someone buy me some... I need to retire young off this lawsuit!

:-?

Ryan


----------



## Goon (Apr 3, 2005)

R y a n said:


> fungalsnowgoose said:
> 
> 
> > I know with the BBB I tested that the cutting edges left huge holes in the birds so the breast was almost unsalvagable. So this is something to keep in account too.
> ...


You end up with a crown, I broke a tooth after I bit into some BBB black death. That hurt...


----------



## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

They are far from a razor edge. I bought a few boxes and broke one open. It definitely has a rib around it, and I do believe it will increase penetration power, but there's no way it will tear you up inside if you eat it.


----------



## Goon (Apr 3, 2005)

diver_sniper said:


> They are far from a razor edge. I bought a few boxes and broke one open. It definitely has a rib around it, and I do believe it will increase penetration power, but there's no way it will tear you up inside if you eat it.


I would imagine that if you swallow it without chewing it you should be ok.
I wouldnt' recommend biting down on it... :sniper:


----------



## blja0601 (Aug 9, 2007)

I work at gander mtn in St. cloud, we have a fair amount on the shelves and 3'' go for $25 and 3 1/2'' go for $28, but i heard from the federal guys that ammo it expected to jump 23% by mid october so if your going to buy, buy quick


----------



## justund223 (Aug 28, 2006)

just to let you guys know if you want to try it out. The home of economy in GF has the 3.5s for 21.99 and the 3s for 19.99. Think i might buy a box or to to try out.


----------



## bowhunter04 (Nov 7, 2003)

I recently purchased a box to pattern out of my SBE 2. I'm definately glad that I took the time to pattern it. The pattern was terrible. I originally tried it out of my factory modified choke and then tried it out of the factory IC. Both had less than 50 pellets in a 30" circle at 35 yards. I then gave it to a co-worker and he had patterns around 95% @ 35 yards. I ended up just giving the rest of the box to him. Just make sure you pattern it out of your gun before you bring it to the field.


----------



## sugerfree (Feb 17, 2007)

need I remind you all that shot size also has a huge affect of energy transfer and knockdown power over a greater distance?


----------



## Lindahl (Mar 20, 2007)

Agree sky busting is a problem.
And that marketing is always trying to make products seem like they can do miraculous almost unattainable things.
But Am glad they are still trying to improve steel shot.
The stuff when it first came out ditto was garbage at best. The marketing of the stuff to kill birds way out there is just their way of getting guys to buy it. Kind of like when car makers or four wheeler adds show thier product going way to fast for the situation then in small print put all the disclaimers. Or that this call, decoy or boat is going to magically transform any of us in to Super Hunter. Most seasoned hunters know a certain brand of anythnig isn't going to replace scouting and knowledge in the field.


----------

