# NRs



## wolfie (Jan 17, 2004)

I live in MN, and sorry ND guys, but I hope all the stupid bag hunters from MN go to ND and hunt, so I can finally get back to some decent spots in MN.

Seriously, hunting all over is going in the tank. It's going to come down to money. Not public money, but private. I'll bet that in 20 yrs. unless you own substantial (read this as thousands of PROTECTED private) acreage of your own, hunting will be cost-prohibitive to the general public.

All the good hunters of the past will be gone, everything leased out to people with money, and the public lands either closed or unable to harbor birds or other game because of pressure.

I don't think this is a waterfowl issue alone...upland will have the same issue.

This is sad for me because as much as I like bagging wild game, for me it is working with the dogs. Well, the dogs won't have much to do anymore, the way things are going.......

Isn't this the same as what we did as 'Americans', to the wild buffalo?

PS- I am not a Native American, but have much concern for how we've mucked up native America...

wolfie


----------



## cooter77 (Sep 30, 2003)

I understand where you are coming from. I am from wisconsin and hunting land is getting bought up and leased out all over here. This is frustrating and can grate on your nerves when all the land around is posted but..........I don't believe that the answer is to send them all to another state. To wish all the bad things that they do here on the people of another state is not the way we non residents can keep our good relations going.

As I'm sure you read on this web site non-residents have a bad rep with the good people of ND. It only takes one irresponsible hunter or group to sully the waters of an entire hunting area. Although things are difficult around our state and more and more people are moving to ND to hunt the people we stay with and around the area we hunt have always been super friendly, and been very forthcoming with information on local areas to go. This can change with one group who does not respect the people and land of the locals.

In short things are tough all over..... all we can do is trudge along do onto others. 8)


----------



## brent weyer (Mar 31, 2003)

Wolfie, I hear where your coming from. It seems like every year theres less hunting land. I grew up hunting grouse on an old logging trail behind our house it was private and rarely traveled but now many people use it but even worse they abuse it. Which brings me to another subject about some rumors I've heard about ND regulations. The reason I call them rumors is because I have'nt done any research but I have heard people talking that ND is changing there laws and prices on non residents. Now if part of that is true it makes no sense. If my crew and I pack up and head out to ND we drop alot of money in ND as well as other non residents. Which helps any state. Raising prices and giving temporary licenses will might keep us away. But like wolfie was saying about the money issue, pretty soon everything will be corporate the only guys that will be able to drop a couple hundred and not flinch will be all part of the corporate world. It only hurts the common man the blue collar worker. I understand that there is some non resident abuse but our lakes in minnesota take abuse every year from non residents and I like to think that our regulations our non resident friendly. They're making the wrong changes I think they should just make the offenses that lead to the abuse of land and water more punishable. Higher fines, take away there hunting privlages in the state for those idiots that respect nothing we don't need people out there like that anyway. Just my opinions.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Non-res. abuses have nothing to do with our law changes.


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Generally speaking just being a NON RES is a label that we have whether you abuse or not. How many posts on this sight say anything good about us at all. The fact that water was low in N.D added to more pressure for there duck hunting this year (no ones fault but mother natures).


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

I am from ceteral Minnesota i go to college in Mayville North Dakota, My father lives in Jamestown North Dakota. I think that the concearn for most working class residents with out of staters is that they put in hours every week working in this state, working for less, and then when they want to go out hunting with their families on the weekends they find so many out of state hunters everywhere it gets frustrating to them.

I have seen it myself the second weekend of the season in ND is nuts there is people everywhere. When you scout you have to find 4 spots just incase. We had several (9 in one year) cases with out of staters setting up decoys with in a hundred yards of us. Right at day break. This happend in several areas with in a hundered miles of each other. So it wasnt just one group over and over that did it.

Now i did not say that all out of staters are like that, but in most cases of what i have seen, I would say that 80% are. If you're not one of them i am glad to have you. The fact that people have no respect and have this i must limit out everyday attitude ruins the entire hunting philosophy.

There were several days we drove by hunters blasting ducks out the windows of there trucks at ducks sitting 30 yards off the road in the ditch. I have made the decision to move to stay in North Dakota when i graduate. I would love to see them close-out of state hunting. The money and revenue isnt the point, the fact that there is always the 80% out there that ruin it is the problem.

I have hunted in Minnesota all my life and i see the same things going on there. The Reason minnesota has a strict trespassing laws is because this goes on there all the time. I see it in ceneral Minnesota all the time. Even with deer hunting. Minnesota fishing shouldn't be used as an example North Dakotans have have just as good of fishing that people take advantage of. I live on lake Osakis in Minnesota and i have seen boat landing fist fights there too.

I am sorry to say it fellow Minnesotans, but WE blew it for our selves. The fact that Minnesotans say that it is only a few that do this is just an excuse we all know it is more then a few. In minnesota i have seen fist fights over a single wounded goose that flew off, it is rediculous.

Well I am sorry to sound like an *******, but everything i have said is the honest to god as my witness truth. I was not exagerating one bit. I hope that some of us start to realize and take accountability for the stupid things we do. Thanks for listening to me. I am sorry it was so long.
Bandhunter


----------



## Ron Gilmore (Jan 7, 2003)

You make the opoint for why ND sportmen are trying to implement change. Most understand that freelance hunters are not the issue, but the type like you described about your turkeyspot and those unwilling to do theleg work to freelance and pay a G/O to do it for them are. Limits would reduce the amount of shooters that could use a G/O thus reducing the amount of land going into private leases. Thus increasing the amount of access for you and any other hunter that lives or comes to ND.

The other thing it would do is maintain the quality level of the hunt. Many found that ND looked liked MN this fall to many hunters chasing concentrated birds sending to SD where a mere 6000+ NR get to hunt. This is not all about money to us but to others such as the Mr Weyer that implies that the money they would spend is so important. Some things do not have a price. Go back and read the numerous threads that have dealt with this subject. Look past the snipes and look at the substance of what is being said.

Impacton rural communites, long term relations, loss of hunter recruitment etc. all have been thoughly explained and laid out. You might find a better understanding and appreciation for what the sprotmen of ND are trying to save not only for ourselves and our children but you and your children also.


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

I hear you loud and clear Ron, i think they should have a lottery. I mean i know they will never close it completely to out of staters, but the only fair way would be to have a lottery to out of staters. Have people apply and get rotated in otherwise the whole first come first serve issue will bring bad blood. In state North Dakotans have to deal with this for deer hunting as well. I think that would be the only fair way dealing with the problem. Another thing they could do is if you are going to hunt in this state you would have to be hunting with a ND resident. This would help to elminate some of the bad stories we all hear and see. In staters wouldnt let out of staters get out of hand. That could be a good fix too. Just something to think about.
Bandhunter


----------



## DuckBuster (Mar 18, 2003)

Bandhunter- How did you come up with 80%? Gimme a break! I absolutly agree that there are people out there that should not be allowed to hunt. But 80%? I also don't believe that forcing NR to hunt with residents will fix all of the problems either. I have met lots of NoDakers that are great people and I'm proud to call them my friends, but there are some people from ND that break laws and are not always ethical. I think ND has a lower ratio of bad guys to good than MN, but they are still out there. I'm all for a limit. I feel that if you can't plan ahead enough to get the license early, then it's your fault you can't go. I also agree with most people on this site that something needs to be done to preserve ND hunting. I have been hunting ND for a while now and I can see the differences too. It is a tougher to get onto land these days, but let's not forget the reason this is happening...G/O. Just my opinion.


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

I have enough hunting buddies. I will say that I have a great friendship with a couple of land owners in N.D that I can't say enough good things about so if ever they get the time and itch they know they can come too!!!  :beer: :wink:


----------



## rifleman (Jan 22, 2004)

Unfortunately too much of this issue always revolves around money. Sooner or later biology and what is best for the natural resource has to become the first priority. I wouldn't be so quick taking credit for keeping businesses in business with NR money. If that is the only way those business survive, the next drought may doom them all. The wet cycle will only last so long and when the water goes, so do the birds. We may have seen the beginnings of that last fall in many parts of ND. Anybody out there remember 1987-91?


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

80% is the number of times that i can recall seeing some one from out of state doing something stupid or hearing them talk about doing something stupid in my life and i took that divided by the number of them i have seen doing good, looking out for people, and not whinning about liscense prices. Oh yeah i am a Math Major if that helps. And that is that is just hunting in North Dakota, I am not talking about the fact that i have lived in Minnesota for 22 years and seen the horrible things that go on in our state.

I am sorry, but being an out of stater i know the plus and minuses of both sides. This is kind of an analogy that i can use. Think about going camping a weekend with your family. The camp ground that you looked for was full when you got there. Even though you set up reservations and looked ahead of time they gave out your spot anyways. That is how i feel toward out of staters.

Do you pay hunt or do you just hunt where ever with the farmers you have good relationships with? The hotel owners are also in small number compared to the instate hunters that hunt this state.. Did you also think about the reason why the owners like you so much. It is probably because you are staying at the establishment and bringing them revenue in. I am sure you could be friends with them too, but the main reason is revenue. Most of them dont probably hunt and are just buisness people. Farmers can be thought of the same way they raise the crops we hunt on and own the land, and most do not hunt and i know a lot are just starting to do the pay hunt.

Yes, there should a limit. I know they cant just stop out of staters, but please try and think about the instate HUNTERS not the residents that dont hunt that is the differance in perspective. I am trying to stay equal in this convo, but the fact that i have heard, seen, talked to out of staters that do this bad stuff leads me to side witht he residents. 
Bandhunter
Just my opinion!!!No hard feelings you guys are probably great guys, that have nothing, but love for what the state has to offer.


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

It's still hard for me to believe though that the residents freezers aren't full of birds. :wink:


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

Hey like i said i am telling it like i see it. If there wasnt problems we wouldnt be having this convo. And i am saying the problems i see. And the fact that i am an out of stater shows that man there is a problem. Because of one of them is willing to say it then there must be a problem. The fact that i dont think MOST out of staters appreciate the PRIVLEDGE of hunting in ND and i am willing to say it doesnt mean dont appreciate hunting. I love hunting more then anything. I just see a problem and i wanted to add what i seen and think about it. That is what this site is all about. And for you to tell me i dont appreciate hunting is an ignorant comment. If i didnt love hunting i wouldnt voice my opinion or carry one way or another. You cant tell me you dont hear the things that go on with out of staters. Like i said i dont think all of them are bad, but i do think the majority there is a problem. The fact that the freezer are full isnt the issue. The fact that there is getting to be to many out of staters out here is..and closely related is the fact that there is problems occuring with no res acting in appropriately. not all of them, but some. Well that is all i am going to say about this issue everyone know where i stand. Thanks for your time everyone. 
Bandhunter


----------



## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

How many times have we gone back and forth on this issue? Its about 750 to many. It really is get sicking. Just my .02


----------



## dblkluk (Oct 3, 2002)

Yep its gettin old !!


----------



## brent weyer (Mar 31, 2003)

I would be upset for ND to keep non residents out but I hope it does'nt come to that. But I do understand if there is to many hunters then regulations must be set. As long as there done for the right reasons. I think that is what everyone wants because you can see in this forum that there are passionate hunters who do respect the laws and the land, it's just that nobody wants there privalages stripped for any reason. it just goes to show you how high of a priority conserving wetlands is.


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Somewhere along the line someone wrote or said that in N.D you can pretty much hunt anywhere you want, which is not the case.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

I'm also tired of this topic.Nothing will change until 2005.Let it rest.


----------



## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

I also look forward to drawing muledeer tags through the western states . But guess what I will just have to wait. I dont complain. It just makes the experience more injoyable by nt getting to hunt muledeer every year. Maybe Nd should do what SD does. Then it would make me 100% happier.


----------



## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Gentlemen,

We could sit and beat this subject to death but the real deal here is that the ND people are going to decide what is in the best interest of their state. We can all *****, whine, complain, and worry over this subject but it will do no one any good.

Acceptable behavior to a ND hunter and acceptable behavior to Minnesota hunter are two different things. In Minnesota it is acceptable to have a number of hunting groups in close proximity to each other. I know because I lived and hunted MN for 10 years. In ND it is not acceptable to set up in the same field as someone else. If you are beat to a field or a small slough in the morning then you move on to someplace different. This is how the game is played in ND. This is just one exapmle of things that go on that upset resident hunters. I'm not picking on you Minnesota guys (my hunting buddies in ND still make fun of me for being from Minnesota so I know your pain). The difference is not ethics it is perception of what is and what is not acceptable behavior.


----------



## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

GG you still will be the Soda in our group. :lol:


----------



## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

"The difference is not ethics it is perception of what is and what is not acceptable behavior"

Agreed....and relatedly, what are and are not "quality hunting opportunities".....and the level of priority attributed to a high level of hunting quality that causes many to reside (and spend) here year-around versus visit a few days/weeks each year.....

You see, many resident hunters aren't "stuck" in ND. We have or have left employment and other opportunities elsewhere, but choose to be here (and trade-off other benefits) in no small part becuase of the hunting quality and opportunities that existed until just a few years ago. If ND goes the way of most other states that have trended fully through commercialization, ND will have lost a very valuable residency marketing asset.

There's more to ND's hunting economic analysis that just dollars spent or not spent by nr's during the Fall hunting period.


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

:huh:


----------



## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

What does a freezer full of game have to do with anything?


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Goldy........????????????????????????/


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Take it off the grill this topic is cooked!


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

See that is what he said to me to and i dont get it either. A freezer full of game isnt an issue. 
Bandhunter


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Your hunting is still very good and that a successful season also means birds in the freezer. I am all about isolation myself.


----------



## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

Goldy, I am another non resident hunter and apparently have some of the same problem understanding this issue as you. I don't think that some of the residents of ND understand how great their hunting is compared to other places. I come up there for one week a year and that IS MY ENTIRE DUCK SEASON. That does not mean I don't hunt in my own state, but it is really piss poor, so that one week up there is everything to me. I do not have much time to hunt at home, but I think I hunted 5 days this year at home and got a grand total of TWO ducks. I look forward to coming up there the other 51 weeks out of the year. That is why I am on this sight all the time. I love it up there. That is also why I don't "***** and complain" as they say, because I realize it is a priviledge for me to come up there and hunt. 
Next Point: There has to be limits on the numbers of hunters. Period. There are only so many ducks. Resident hunters of course come first. (common sense) The number of non resident hunters should be based on the duck population for the given year, not economics.
Next Point: Another thing that I think is hard for non residents to understand is all the people on here saying how much pressure there is and there are hunters everywhere etc. I think it is like anything else. It is relative to people's expierience. I have been hunting up there for only the last four years and there is no pressure that I have seen. We have seen maybe 3-4 other hunting parties in the field each year. Maybe we are just in the wrong area to have a lot of hunting pressure. I don't know. Maybe that is more than what residents up there were used to seeing. Unfortunately down here pressure is 10 times worse, so that seems like nothing to me.
Sorry so long, just got on a roll.


----------



## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

You're right Gaddy...pressure is realative to what you are used to.

I think the biggest difference the last couple of years is the "constant" pressure.Non-res hunt all week...we mainly hunt weekends.As the number of non-res. has increased the waterfowl take a pounding ALL week where as it used to be weekends.

As others have noted...you only need to compare SE NODAK with NE SODAK where there is much less "constant" pressure.They will move to out of the way areas and refuges where there is less pressure.


----------



## Dick Monson (Aug 12, 2002)

BandHunter, would you consider putting a *PM* on your forum registration? Or email me? You are in a critical legislative district and in college, and from out of state (yippeeeeee) and we really need you and your view, esp for the next legislative session. Just one of many guys we're looking for. We won't hurt you! Dick


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Sounds like "Take a non-resident hunting week" might not pass in the next bill. I was looking forward to that. :lol:


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

Hey Dick sorry I haven't gotten back until now. Been busy with papers and such. Anyways you can get a hold of me at [email protected] feel free to email me anytime. I would love to help. Thanks.. 
Bandhunter


----------



## Dan Bueide (Jul 1, 2002)

Gaddy, I respectfully disagree with your comment that most of us don't know how good we've got it. Many of us have lived in other regions, hunted in other regions and/or have an understanding for hunting opportunities and quality in other regions. The frequent res posters on this site and/or the ones that have gotten active in the hunting debates very much appreciate the quality difference, and that's why we've spent a great deal of time and money trying to protect it. If we didn't appreciate it, we wouldn't be fighting so hard to maintain it.

Goldy, I've now passed through my 6th hunting season since returning to ND. This year I had some great days of waterfowling, but just as many busts and quite a few mediocres to boot. The last two years have been far and away the worst of the 6, despite working harder in all respects to better my chances. The freezer is neither empty nor full, but the increased pressure especially relative to decreasing habitat is definitely affecting the quality of hunting.


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Dan, it has been not good at all here for the last 11 years. That is way too many off seasons wondering if a guy should just sell the deek's. weekend pressure takes away the fun so we mostly have to use vacation to hunt during the week and take our chances. This sport gets in your blood as everyone knows and I can't see ever hanging it up.


----------



## gaddyshooter (Oct 12, 2003)

Dan you are right. I am sure the ones that have been raised in other parts of the country or been to other areas to hunt have a great appreciation for the wonders of ND. It just seems like some on here are so used to being able to go out and limit out on duck/geese and/ or pheasants whenever they feel like it that it just becomes "normal" or "routine" to them. Let me assure everyone, that going out and being able to limit easily is not that common of a thing, as least in the areas I have been in. Some of the picures of stack of ducks/geese posted on here simply amaze me. Unfortunately for every person around like you that works hard and spends the time and money to conserve what is available, there are more who don't. 
Also I just have to say I love your pics you posted of all the pheasants 'grazing like cattle." I had to print it for my father. He won't believe it. Unfortunately we don't have wild pheasants here.


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

Weekends would be great for in staters who have to work every day? If the birds weren't getting pressure all week by out of staters. I mean if you are thinking of it that way then North Dakotan's would be better off just moving out of state, and making more money, then just coming back for one time a year during the week, so they can not have to deal with hunting presure. There sounds like we have all solved the problem. Hurry everyone pack there bags and move out. See you once a year.

The fact is that it works great for out of staters to use there one week of vaccation time to come out here and have a good time, but what about the in staters who have to work evey week, that dont get vaccation time, and only can hunt on the weekends? What about them? We are still getting a way from the subject. We need to think about instaters, not about what works best for out of staters.In staters shouldn't have to use their vaccation days(if they are lucky enough to have them) to go out and get some great hunting, they shouldn't get stuck with what we in college like to call (sloppy seconds). In staters shouldn't have to take a cut in there limit to satisfy out of staters for a great week of hunting one week a year either. They should be able to take first advantage of what there state produces first then if there is any left they should be able to save it until next year for the out of staters.

This isn't just my opinion, I am sure that is the opinion's of many of the in staters too. Except for those great guides that live in this state that like to lease thousands of acres up every year, so that out of staters have an excellant place to week-day or week-end hunt that the instaters can't afford because they work fo less, but I guess that is everyones way of thinking, all for me and none for you. 
Respectufully Yours,
Bandhunter


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

Band hunter: Nobody ever said anyone should have to use there vacation for anything. To simplify this, Vacation is what I personally do HERE HERE in MINNESOTA to get away. I think that the state of North Dakota should be happy to have you as a resident and spokesman!!! GOOD LUCK TO ALL!!!!!! :lol: KNOT AL HUNTURS R DUM SUM US GOTS SMARTS REEL GOOD!!! :lol:


----------



## djleye (Nov 14, 2002)

I think another thing to keep in mind is that a lot of the pictures of duck and goose limits are coming from a lot of the young guys on this site(I am _not_ criticizing the pics here, I have no problem with them, just stating a fact), and it only stands to reason that they will do better, they have more time to scout and time to hunt(ok, I am jealous). As Dan said, we all have off days for hunting too, it's just that our off days would be considered good by a lot of states standards. I too hunted a lot more and did much better when I was younger and single with no kids. Even when I furst got married, my wife was working nights and weekends and I hunted just about every weekend. It only stands to reason that I would do better when I have more time to scout out and follow the birds to new areas.


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

The issues that are being brought-up again and re-hashed over and over are doing nothing but driving a wedge between sportsmen. ND doesn't think these issues are that important, they are not going to address them until '05 and are willing to let them sizzle while you and I fight about it and even then won't pass anything more restrictive because of economics.


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

There should be a wedge. By ND you mean the legislation, guides, and buinesses. What about the people? I am sure they wouldn't agree to that. Here again the other hunters are the ones that are loosing out. I think they will pass if enough people do and say the right things in a respectful way. If everyone, including people at this site thinks there is a problem, then why not do something about it, but dont do it for the wrong reasons. Obviously everyone loves to come out to North Dakota and we all know there needs to be limits set. The legislation is suppose to, in theory, work for us not in the the best interest of big buiness and themselves as repersenatives. The best way to make everyone happy is to set limits all the way around and then I think we can all rest a little easier. 
BandHunter


----------



## Goldy's Pal (Jan 6, 2004)

What's the point . :huh:


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

Band, hunters are the minority in any state and getting smaller by each generation, if you want to drive that wedge you are selfish. Go back into the archives and do some reading about this subject starting last Sept.


----------



## BandHunter (Dec 17, 2003)

Sorry didnt make myself very clear. I want to drive a wedge between economics (insert wedge here) and hunting/people/enviroment. I dont like the fact that everything is being decided on money, it shouldnt be. Sorry for being to vague. 
Bandhunter


----------



## james s melson (Aug 19, 2003)

I guess I am still alittle on edge myself, sorry I jumped up and bit.


----------

