# Another Bail out??



## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Ok. Now I don't want people to lose their homes. But this is again doing nothing to fix the problem. Let it fix itself. People will lose homes. Home prices will drop to where they should be (not inflated). What gets me wasn't the first bail out supposed to do what is in this article???



> Mortgage relief deal reached as holdout states join in
> 
> Federal and state officials announced Thursday morning a $25 billion deal with the nation's largest banks aimed at offering struggling homeowners mortgage relief. CNBC's Diana Olick reports.
> 
> ...


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## 6162rk (Dec 5, 2004)

again the depositors will get hit with the loss. as well as those that pay their loans. just another form of hand out.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

Why pay bills? Why make your mortgage payments? This is telling people to stop paying bills. The goverment will help you out. Heck anyone get upside down on a loan. Just stop paying!


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

I heard on the radio today that we are up to 49% that do not pay taxes. That's 49% for Obama. I also heard that now if you qualify for food stamps you get a free cell phone and your payments are made. Why work? :******:


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

Plainsman said:


> I heard on the radio today that we are up to 49% that do not pay taxes. That's 49% for Obama. I also heard that now if you qualify for food stamps you get a free cell phone and your payments are made. Why work? :ticked:


I've heard 47-50% don't pay federal tax but that includes the working poor that do pay taxes albeit not on the federal level.
So what's the answer, make them pay something out of fairness?

A flat tax sounds great to spread the burden and make it fair. But supposedly, it would take at least a 20% flat rate to
equal what Federal tax revenue brings in right now. That would kill the working poor and the very wealthy would pay less.

No question,,,Tax reform is long over due but the special interests *rich and poor *need to get out of the way so changes can be geared for economic growth,,,which in the end, will benefit us all.
As always,,,I'm not very optimistic.


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## Gunny (Aug 18, 2005)

I know I will be over simplifying this (as i'm no political mind) but I like the idea of the "Fair Tax " in some form.

The idea, if I'm correct, is that everyone would pay taxes based off of purchases made? Items would be taxed at whatever number the Talking Heads in Washington could agree on... :roll:

So, say a pack of gum is $1.00. There would be an added tax that would, in this case, bring that number up to say... $1.15 for arguments sake.

The theory is that there would be absolutly no way around *everyone* paying their "fair share"...

The rich purchase more, (and more expensive) items, as they have more $$ = More taxes paid.

The poor will have no choice to pay their "fair share" as the poor do purchase goods. Just not as much = Less taxes paid.

The illegals would also be forced into our tax system, paying based off of purchases. = Paying taxes finaly

It would force Mitt, and Mr. Buffet, to pay more annualy than their gardeners and assistants.

Admittedly I do not understand how the numbers would play out. Or how to even impliment this system. I just like the idea.

I am intrested to see if anyone can explain it better than myself.

Again, I know I over simplified this, and I pre-apologize if I'm not even in the ball park with my explination.

Gunny


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

What you described gunny is a consumption tax...and it sure sounds fair/reasonable.
But it can be the bogyman in disguise though.
Used in Europe to create additional revenue for the state,,,it can be made so convoluted/disingenuous that the average guy
doesn't know what he's being taxed for. And the millions of Europeans on the dole,,,cud care less.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

It is a good idea in theory.

But how do you tax someone using food stamps? Or other forms of assistance?

I agree 100% the tax system needs to be re-drawn....and everyone needs to let it happen.


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## Gunny (Aug 18, 2005)

I would assume you could not tax food stamps or any assistance programs. Also there is no point in calling it "food stamps" any longer as it is now a debit card and, from what I've seen, can be used for more than food.

I also will readily admit I am no political pundant, and I absolutly have no idea about our tax code. Here is what I do know. The system is broken. *EVERYONE* in Washington is dragging their feet, and anchored in their positions. Pathetic really... People have different ideas on what the governments roll has changed in to and what exactily it should be. But one thing that MUST stay the same is our diligence to support what is in our constitution and the American way of life.

Do people need help... ABSOLUTLY

Should I be forced to help those who have the capability to help themselvs... ABSOLUTLY NOT.

I can't remember where I saw it, but I am pretty sure Americans are the biggest doners to cheritys world wide. My opinion is that it's because we are not forced to donate, but rather because we as individuals know it is the right thing to do. I also believe our own tax system is "convoluted/disingenuous that the average guy doesnt know what he is being taxed for". 
I mean... think of all of the taxes you pay off of the top of your head. There are roads, and schools, and utilities, and homes, and cars, and incomes, and insider trading (oops. Thats only for our elected officials)...

It would be interesting to find out how much an average, middle class family pays in total taxes, for everything, in a year.

Just thinking out loud.


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## spentwings (Apr 25, 2007)

When it comes to local government I know swat.
When it come to most of our federal government's theft,,don't now much about that either.
When it comes to the tax code I know even less.

But I do know what the GAO is saying,,,the system is broken and we're going south.
Maybe a default is needed to finally get rid of the political scumbags in DC!

Congressional term limits will free us all from the corruption that is Washington.
Those who disagree and believe all we need is an informed electorate,,,are either delusional or want to continue the status quo as long as it swings to their favor,,,and eventually it always does. Now,,,_*That's pretty pathetic*_!!!


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## Gunny (Aug 18, 2005)

I could not agree with you more...


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## Plainsman (Jul 30, 2003)

Why is it those who say they know nothing about politics always make more sense than those who think they know everything? 

I don't mind taking care of the poor and the disabled. Like you fellows I don't like taking care of the lazy. What I really don't like is politicians who use this money to buy votes from the lazy. That is not just wrong, it endangers our nation as we know it more than Iran.

Ahmadinejad, Obama, Ahmadinejad, Obama heck one is as crazy as the other and I think Obama is more dangerous. Conservative and liberal politicians both buy votes, and conservatives are often called greedy for voting conservative, but let me ask you this question: conservative politicians get our vote by letting us keep what we earn, liberals get our vote by taking from those who earn it and giving it to those who do not earn it. Which is the truly greedy?

Bobm had that fair tax explained very well. It was sort of a national sales tax that exempted food and clothing. I don't remember the percentage, but for some reason 23% sticks in my head. Someone asked what do we pay in taxes when you consider all of them. Every time you buy something you pay the taxes the producer is charged. That's some where around 20 % and that is happening now. With the fair tax we would pay far less taxes. I have heard that our total tax burden is about 60%.


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## Chuck Smith (Feb 22, 2005)

I hate to say I told you so.....but here it is again.

Way back when the first "Bail out" happened.....what did I say. It would not work. Then I posted this thread about another bail out.....well look what one person is saying about it.... I highlighted a few key points that people might not know.



> Is help too late for homeowners?
> For those behind on their mortgages, assistance from the bank settlement and other programs may come too late to save their homes.
> By MSN Money partner 2 hours ago
> This post comes from AnnaMaria Andriotis at partner site SmartMoney.
> ...


So you see this "bail out" *COULD* only will help 55% of the loans out there. And they have to wait for the bank to start to hand out the assistance.

Then the goverment backed loans that are upside down....Fannie and Freddy (which these programs are already running on empty) will offer assistance but the borrower has to meet requirements.

Another feel good bill that will do nothing.


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