# formerly sheldon's



## oatsboy (Mar 29, 2005)

our annual outdoor show is this weekend,while there i had a nice chat with an out fitter from nodak.it w`as nice talking nodak politcs to include the n.res. issue and bill#?[advanced plots].not to informed though .he did however provide his bus card ,pamphlet,and a complimentary dvd .as i viewed coteau prairie's disk they stated they were known as sheldon;s from streeter.could it be?did i have the perfect opertunity to ask about their compost pile,if it wasnt ahour drive i 'd be right back there .


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

So you're saying that you were at a convention in New York state and met a representative of Sheldon's?

Please don't abbreviate. It makes it very difficult to read and "interpret" your post.

Ryan

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## oatsboy (Mar 29, 2005)

ben elli
yes,
sorry not a strong typer


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## Old Hunter (Mar 8, 2002)

A snake with many heads.


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## sierra03 (Jan 27, 2005)

Actually i sat and talked with a guy that works for coteau(sheldon) this weekend. He seemed like a good guy, maybe like 24? Showed me a DVD from his Alaska outfitting. I would have to say calling him a hunter/fisherman is an understatement. Haha the whole mishap with Sheldon and the 17 year old was brought up for a second, and he was saying he was at the wrong place at the wrong time... 8) . Anyways I dont know much about that or the guy himself so im leaving that at that! Sheldons site is northdakotabirdhunt.com. Just for your info...not siding with anyone here. Like I said I dont know the guy or the issues!


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## Springer (Dec 21, 2004)

I want to hunt in ND so I think I'll contact the guy in Dillsburg, PA 17019,

That doesn't make much sense to me. What is he going to know about what is going on in ND. He must do all of the scouting.


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

HAHAHAHAA after reading their website..... I just about fell off my chair LMAO! :rollin:



> " WHITE-TAILED DEER
> Although it is not widely known, our white-tailed deer population is very large! These are "farm land" white tails that have the luxury of large amounts of high quality food. Several years back, we had a buck which weighed 280 pounds gutted and with lower legs removed. The average live weight buck is usually from 210 to 240 pounds. "


Can I hunt down in his unit? They had a *280 lb *White Tail? Is this guy truly off the deep end nuts or what??? The _*AVERAGE*_ is 225 lbs?



> Our guides have been featured in "FIELD & STREAM" and "WILDFOWL" magazines
> We know from our own hunting experience that, excluding the right weather and game populations, the guide is the most important factor in a hunt. We use only first class guides. Our professional staff will include guides from Pennsylvania, Kansas, Minnesota, Texas, Missour, Maryland and, of course, North Dakota.


Thank god they use only first class guides!  I wonder if that means Class A Felony Guides?

Wow I think the word here is "Desceptive Advertising!"

Ryan

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## NDTerminator (Aug 20, 2003)

Actually Ben, big bodied whitetail bucks are quite common in ND. The local big buck contest is usually won by a buck in the 240 lbs range, and bigger ones are not uncommon.

I would guess the average mature buck taken around my farmstead is around 180 lbs, with 200 lbs + being nothing that raises an eyebrow.

Over the years, I've seen a few both on the hoof and taken & dressed that would certainly be in that 280-300 lbs range...

If you are interested, check out the Ed's Bait Shop (in Devils Lake) web site. All the bucks pictured there are weighed on a certified propane scale...
_________________


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## USSapper (Sep 26, 2005)

i agree-"deceptive advertising"


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

oatsboy  that would have been pretty cool if you could have made him sputter about the compost... :lol:


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

NDTerminator said:


> Actually Ben, big bodied whitetail bucks are quite common in ND. The local big buck contest is usually won by a buck in the 240 lbs range, and bigger ones are not uncommon.
> 
> I would guess the average mature buck taken around my farmstead is around 180 lbs, with 200 lbs + being nothing that raises an eyebrow.
> 
> ...


NDTerminator

Just so you realize....I'm now going into my 17th consecutive year of deer hunting in North Dakota, have shot 45+ deer during that time, including a 215lb Whitetail Buck there a few years back. Yes big bodied bucks can be found in the state, and each year the big buck contests sport some doozies that tip the scales at 225+. However when you consider that 25,000+ bucks are shot each year in ND, and only a dozen are more than 225 lbs, that is LESS than 1/2 of 1% ! Those are the freaks of the year.

To say that bigger ones greater than 240 lbs are not uncommon is clearly wrong.



> I would guess the average mature buck taken around my farmstead is around 180 lbs, with 200 lbs + being nothing that raises an eyebrow.


 This is MUCH more the norm throughout ND.



> Over the years, I've seen a few both on the hoof and taken & dressed that would certainly be in that 280-300 lbs range...


Ummm I don't know what to say... That's pure craziness !! 



> If you are interested, check out the Ed's Bait Shop (in Devils Lake) web site. All the bucks pictured there are weighed on a certified propane scale...


So I went out to Ed's website thinking maybe that the deer have recently had a freakish growth spurt. I looked at the 2005 Deer pics. Of those pics, *ONLY 14 of 67 * *broke 200 lbs!!!*

Furthermore, I decided to take that page as a representative random year. Do you realize that on that page *the average weight was 182.45? *
(12,224 lbs/67 bucks)

This just illustrates my point that the vast majority of deer hunters grossly overestimate the size of Whitetails. Bucks that big do exist in North America, however they are primarily found in the colder forest areas of the US (NE Minn, Michigan, Wisconsin etc), and up north in Canada (Sask & Man).

Deer greater than 220lbs are a true trophy in ND. To say they were common would imply that every deer hunter would eventually shoot one in their lifetime. I've hunted big bucks as have many on this site.... In 17 years I've only been present for 3 deer that would have broken that threshold. I think it is pretty fair to say that most here will never achieve that hunting deer in North Dakota. It is simply to rare.

Ryan

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## KEN W (Feb 22, 2002)

Treminator is right......Ben....you figured the weight's on all the deer on Ed's website at 182....but that is dressed weight.Even if you figure the gut pile at a conservative 30 lbs.....that's 212 live weight.Probably more than that.

sheldon's site says live weight....so they are averaging 170-185 dressed....a nice but not not exceptional deer.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Just so you realize....I'm now going into my 17th consecutive year of deer hunting in North Dakota, have shot 45+ deer during that time

17 years 45 deer? 2 1/2 deer per year, that pretty damn good hunting if you ask me. Next question where do you claim as your residency?


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

g/o said:


> 17 years 45 deer? 2 1/2 deer per year, that pretty damn good hunting if you ask me. Next question where do you claim as your residency?


Not that big of a deal really, I started deer hunting in 1976 have not gone without a deer since 1980. Most years I got 2, but there were also several years when I got 3 and some where I got 5. Not difficult when you get a bow license, a regular season rifle license, and a muzzleloader license, add in a couple of second season doe licenses and 5 deer is a real possibility. Adding in a few out of state hunts also ups the total. I quit counting a long time ago, too hard to keep track.

As far as his residency, Ryan grew up in Jamestown, I teach Hunter Safety with his Dad. Not sure when he moved out to Washington but it hasn't been all that long ago.

:beer:

huntin1


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

g/o said:


> Just so you realize....I'm now going into my 17th consecutive year of deer hunting in North Dakota, have shot 45+ deer during that time
> 
> 17 years 45 deer? 2 1/2 deer per year, that pretty damn good hunting if you ask me. Next question where do you claim as your residency?


G/O nice try.... If you had read any of my earlier posts about native sons legislation you'd realize many times over I moved out to Washington 2 years ago....

Take into account multiple doe tags and archery...

Think before you speak

Ryan


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

KEN W said:


> Treminator is right......Ben....you figured the weight's on all the deer on Ed's website at 182....but that is dressed weight.Even if you figure the gut pile at a conservative 30 lbs.....that's 212 live weight.Probably more than that.
> 
> sheldon's site says live weight....so they are averaging 170-185 dressed....a nice but not not exceptional deer.


ND Terminator my apologies. I thought you were implying dressed weight. :beer:

Ken

Yup you're right I missed that detail! I probably wouldn't have jumped on Sheldon's quote quite so harshly if I would have caught that!

I found 2 different sites after checking for live vs. dressed weight. Below is a chart that indicates they add 13 lbs to the whole weight per 10 lb gain in dressed weight. I also found that it has been estimated that field dressing loses approximately 20% of body mass.... Which ever stats you use something still doesn't add up.

Dressed vs Whole Weight

150 Lbs. <--> 191 Lbs. 
160 Lbs. <--> 203 Lbs. 
170 Lbs. <--> 216 Lbs. 
180 Lbs. <--> 229 Lbs. 
190 Lbs. <--> 242 Lbs. 
200 Lbs. <--> 254 Lbs.
210 Lbs. <--> 267 Lbs.
220 Lbs. <--> 280 Lbs.

I agree he said his average Live Weight is between 210-240 which would put dressed weight between 165 and 188..... well within the average...

However he said they shot a buck that weighed 280 dressed and lower legs removed. That would put it's live weight at over 356 lbs! Has anyone in this area EVER heard of a deer weighing over 300+ lbs in ND?

I stand by my assertation that he is being a bit deceptive with that kind of statement... Most guys think of field dressed weight, as that is how they compare deer from one season to the next based on dressed weight, when they go down to weigh it at the big buck contest.

Thanks for the correction! :beer:

Ryan

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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ben Elli, Oh but I did take in to consideration archery and multiple doe tags. 2.6 deer per year is excellent hunting especially since the extra doe tags has only been in effect for the past couple years. Yes I think before I post and that is why I think IF you have done as you've said you're one of the best deer hunters this state has ever known,


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## huntin1 (Nov 14, 2003)

g/o said:


> Ben Elli, Oh but I did take in to consideration archery and multiple doe tags. 2.6 deer per year is excellent hunting especially since the extra doe tags has only been in effect for the past couple years. Yes I think before I post and that is why I think IF you have done as you've said you're one of the best deer hunters this state has ever known,


What have you been smokin?

huntin1


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

nothing? you?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

g/o said:


> Ben Elli, Oh but I did take in to consideration archery and multiple doe tags. 2.6 deer per year is excellent hunting especially since the extra doe tags has only been in effect for the past couple years. Yes I think before I post and that is why I think IF you have done as you've said you're one of the best deer hunters this state has ever known,


 :eyeroll:

You know G/O I may not always have agreed with your positions, however I've never been intentionally rude to you.... So what gives? Why the attempted character assassination?

If you really only knew more about me ....you'd realize I'm held to a higher standard of law than you are... those who know me know exactly what I'm getting at.

To answer your attack, No it is not at all difficult to achieve that kind of total. In fact, many of the dedicated hard core deer hunters on this site probably have similar success rates as I have. You need to take into account that you can get multiple doe tags and archery tags how is that not possible? The 2 years before I moved out to Washington I had 4 tags each year....

Being you are a guide and outfitter .... shouldn't you be an expert hunter yourself?  Since you are out in the field all season, you should know exactly where all the deer are and also have a 100% success rate. Is that so hard?

Any decent marksman in ND should have 100% success if they are willing to get out of their vehicle and actually walk away from a road. You make it sound like a challenge?

:huh:


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ben Elli, I'm a little confused here that's all. I was just paying you a compliment. We very seldom achieve 100% at my place, in fact when it comes to archery it would be under 20%. We do no walking at my place, either stalking or stand only. I do think you are one of the luckiest hunters in the world. How old are you? I do not know but lets look at things. Lets say you started hunting at the age of 14 and you are 31 now. 17 consecutive years as you said. So the the 2 years before you left for Washington you had 4 licenses each year. Now were these 4 total or did you have 4 extra doe tags? Since living in Washington have you bought a non resident rifle,archery, and doe tags? One other question you think you are watched anymore than an outfitter?


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

g/o said:


> Ben Elli, I'm a little confused here that's all. I was just paying you a compliment. We very seldom achieve 100% at my place, in fact when it comes to archery it would be under 20%. We do no walking at my place, either stalking or stand only. I do think you are one of the luckiest hunters in the world. How old are you? I do not know but lets look at things. Lets say you started hunting at the age of 14 and you are 31 now. 17 consecutive years as you said. So the the 2 years before you left for Washington you had 4 licenses each year. Now were these 4 total or did you have 4 extra doe tags? Since living in Washington have you bought a non resident rifle,archery, and doe tags? One other question you think you are watched anymore than an outfitter?


.

G/O

My name is Ryan not Ben.... Ben Elli is benelli spelled with a space in it.

Ok... I guess I misunderstood the compliment. Yes I would say the majority of my family and extended family have a success rate greater than 95%. I can't remember a year where the 15 deer hunting members of my extended family haven't filled every tag they desired to use(lest they chose not to shoot one of their extra doe tags). I'm not bragging whatsoever, it's just that we seem to know how to hunt open range whitetails. This is not the same case for archery of course.... I'm talking strictly rifle. I regularly walk between 10 and 15 miles each year when hunting. Walk 1 section end to end that is one mile.

In regards to the licenses.... bear with me if my memory is getting a bit old on specific details. Before I moved out, I had a resident Buck tag, an archery tag and 2 second/third season doe tags. 1 doe tag was for my home unit, and one was for a buddy's farm in a different unit. So yes those years I had 4 licenses.... Since moving to Washington, I have not bought as many licenses.... it is simply more difficult to be able to spend sufficient time in the field to utilize an archery license. I have drawn second season licenses the past 2 seasons, and taken a doe simply to be able to come home and hunt with my family. If you remember an earlier post, I quasi complained to those here that I wished that the ND legislature would offer cheaper second/third season tags for "Native Sons". I see no benefit to charging so much for a lousy doe license when there are such an overpopulation of does and there is thousands of extra licenses even after the second drawing. The only NR's buying those types licenses are former "Native Son" NR's like myself looking to spend some quality family hunting time. Consequently I spend alot of $$ to come home each fall to hunt.

In regards to your last query.... I never said I wasn't watched more... I don't need to be.... I said I'm held to higher standards than you... Now how would that be? ponder that for a moment and the answer will come to you....There are quite a few others on here who know exactly who I am and know what I'm driving at without getting into specifics....

Regards,

Ryan

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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Ben Elli, I must compliment you again, let see 17 consecutive years and 45+ deer. 2 years you shot 4, and the last 2 years because of residency you shot 1 deer each year. lets see so in 13 years prior you shot 35+ deer. To average 2.69 deer per year for 13 years straight is awesome. No wonder you are held at such a high standard. Especially in many of the 13 years you would have only been allowed 2 total.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

muzzle tag, rifle tag, bow tag every year if you want it


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Buckseye, a little home work for you today. How many years have we had a muzzel loader season now? What is the percentage of success in drawing a muzzel loader tag.?


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## HUNTNFISHND (Mar 16, 2004)

In my unit there have been up to four additional doe tags available for at least the last 7 or 8 years. I have killed probably 20 to 30 deer in just the last 8 years. So 45 in 17 years is not unbelievable.

Figure:

17 main deer tags
17 bow tags
11 extra doe tags

Equals 45 deer.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

if you apply for a doe you can get them every year.... not sure how long there has been a season though


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Buckseye, That is not a muzzel loader tag. That is a special doe tag that can be used for anything bow,rifle,muzzel. What ever season is legal at the time.

HuntandFish, Lets look at the facts here as Ben Elli has presented them. He shot 4 deer 2 different seasons,and 1 deer each the 2 years he has been away. That is 35 deer in 13 years, in many of those years he would have been allowed only 2.


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## dosch (May 20, 2003)

Nice to see everyone is all revved up this morning!!


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

g/o you can have a regular muzzy season doe tag, some people have gratis tags too. 

48.2 percent get drawn for muzzy in 05


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

I have hunted since the first deer season in North Dakota, My biggest buck was 217 dressed and years ago my brother shot one that four of us had a litlle difficulty to load, that buck was huge but we did not weigh him so any thing would be a guess. Not many bucks make that 200 mark field dressed .I think if some posted a recipe for apple pie on here , some one would turn it into an argument and start bashing. :beer:


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Ok now is that going to be deep dish or what... only deep dish is for true apple pie makers..... :lol:


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## sierra03 (Jan 27, 2005)

Ben Elli said:


> My name is Ryan not Ben.... Ben Elli is benelli spelled with a space in it


HAHA wow thanks for clearing that up. I always thought you had multiple names!


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## R y a n (Apr 4, 2005)

g/o said:


> Ben Elli, I must compliment you again, let see 17 consecutive years and 45+ deer. 2 years you shot 4, and the last 2 years because of residency you shot 1 deer each year. lets see so in 13 years prior you shot 35+ deer. To average 2.69 deer per year for 13 years straight is awesome. No wonder you are held at such a high standard. Especially in many of the 13 years you would have only been allowed 2 total.


G/O you were not just paying me a compliment, and you still don't get what I'm referring to about high standards. Before I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. You are now just being a pompus A$$ and everyone reading your posts can see it. I threw out a number of 45. Let's say it was approximate and I was off by ohh.... let's say 6. So instead of 45 let's say 39. That would mean I shot 29 in 13 years. That is just over 2 a year. A figure I completely agree with.

Sorry but the numbers do work out. We've had the ability to get multiple licenses for around 8 or 9 years now. So... for let's say 5 of those years I had 3 tags a season.... right there you have 10 extra licenses not including the 1 buck tag. That still gives a margin of error and provides for a lack of success at archery. Simple math really... unless you are super simple minded.

Once again meatball why the character assassination? Do you really wish to understand or are you try to prove you have in inferiority complex?



HUNTNFISHND said:


> In my unit there have been up to four additional doe tags available for at least the last 7 or 8 years. I have killed probably 20 to 30 deer in just the last 8 years. So 45 in 17 years is not unbelievable.
> 
> Figure:
> 
> ...


Thanks Huntnfish. At least you have no problem with simple math unlike some others here.

G/O I refuse to get into a longer debate over such an idiotic topic with you. You really need to step back and ask yourself if your credibility is worth pursuing the character assassination of me. So far no one has agreed with your findings, and we can all see how the numbers can easily work. I'm really curious as to your ulterior motive in all of this. Maybe you recognize that I have the ability to intellectually stomp you into the ground if you step out of line and you recognize that as a threat to your agenda on this board. Maybe you just have a deep resentment of me from some previous post. As I've mentioned before, I've never intentionally disparaged you on these Forums. Should I change that policy? I just don't get it. :huh:

This thread has gone way off topic G/O. Thanks for hijacking the thread to further some hidden agenda you must have. You've now made this thread potentially lockable. * HA! MAYBE *that was your goal all along and I fell for the bait. Maybe you don't wish to give further bad press to the Guide and Outfitting industry in ND? Why don't you identify exactly who you are on these Forums so that potential clients can know who to contact if they'd like your business? I'm certain after reading your posts that with your talent and demeanor they'd certainly be ensured of having a great time!

What were we discussing again? Oh yeah... Sheldon's minions giving Guides and Outfitters a bad name in ND by attending far away hunting conventions to drum up business with those who haven't heard the real deal about what Sheldon's operation is REALLY all about.

Let's get back on topic or let the thread die....

I'd prefer to keep bashing Sheldon's sheep....

Ryan

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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

Easy boys.....

http://www.nodakoutdoors.com/forums/terms.html

Let's get back to talking about Sheldon. The sooner that business is under the sooner it'll do the rest of the waterfowl and hunting world in general, a favor.


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