# roost shooting in the big time



## diver_sniper (Sep 6, 2004)

i was walkin around in wal mart the other night and noticed a clearance rack of hunting movies. i thought to myself, ive got like 40 duck huntin movies at home...do i need another? the quick answer was yes, and grabbed as many as i hadnt already bought for full price two months ago. first one i throw in, take em 7. i watched it most of the way through before i took it out, ticked off at what i had seen. two or three separate hunts i watched them kick huge numbers of birds off of ponds and lakes about a half an hour after sun up. then they would set up and wait for them to return, makes for a good movie. if the person watching has no moral objection to blowing a good roost. the fact that barnie was roost shooting isnt what angered me, roosts get busted by idiots, thats something ive accepted. its the fact that alot of people newer to the sport buy these movies, and try to emulate what they see because its obviously working. and it doesnt help that he talks up the idea of sleeping in for an extra hour because the birds feed before you get action anyway, no use in bein up at 4 am. its rather disappointing, and you would think that a three time world champ duck caller would know a little better, or at least not put it in his movies. i bet if i went through my collection and watched closely i could find more situations like this, but none that make hunting the birds at home sound like a great idea. shawn stahl does a good job of teaching the rights and wrongs of roost shooting in his videos, i think barnie should pick one up before next season.


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## nodakoutdoors.com (Feb 27, 2002)

That's probably how he was raised hunting so to him that's normal.

We ran into Barnie a couple weeks ago and he's a pretty nice guy. They were up here with their big water rigs and they were hunting Lake Audubon. Where we hunt late in the year, the water is closed so it's nice not to have to worry about it.


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

Not everyone in the county hunts fields. Some of you guys just blow my mind. You think just because you do it one way in ND thats the way the rest of the country should do it. We bust birds out of places all of the time and shoot them as they come back. On the Upper Mississippi river there is so much food avalable on the river that this is the only way to hunt them. The birds don't dry feed. This is the way that most of the guys that hunt the Mississippi flyway do it. I think you might need to get out of your little corner of the world before you bash a guy like Bernie.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

backwater,

Maybe you need to get out of your little corner of the world and see what happens here in ND when guys bust the roost. It's usually lights out for the local hunters after that event. That's why we don't do it.

We like to manage our ducks so they stay around for the entire season (or to freeze up anyway). With guys like you busting the roosts, we don't always have ducks for the entire season anymore.

If you want to hunt that way in WI, have at it. In fact, please stay there and hunt the way you are accustomed to. Then we can enjoy the type of hunting that we are accustomed to in ND also.


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## Hunter_58346 (May 22, 2003)

I had the chance to deer hunt with dogs in South East Texas. Interesting and exciting to say the least. So that is the way they hunt deer in South East Texas. So should we do the same thing here?? Mississippi flyway vs. Central flyway,,,,about the same comparison, so your little corner is much different than our little corner.


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## Draker16 (Nov 23, 2004)

well said JHEGG :beer:


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

jhegg said:


> backwater,
> 
> Maybe you need to get out of your little corner of the world and see what happens here in ND when guys bust the roost. It's usually lights out for the local hunters after that event. That's why we don't do it.
> 
> ...


I have been to your little corner of the world may times! Have you been to mine? Do you uderstand what I am getting at!

I don't bust your roosts. When we are in ND or SD we field hunt, but when we are at home we hunt water. It just the way it is in some parts of the country, its just a different style of hunting in a different part of the coutry. You can't be mad at someone for a style of hunting.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

I've watched his videos several times and find him to be a good and ethical hunter. However I really didn't care for that segment as well, but he was hunting on what I believe to be private land in Canada with the landowner/ guide which he uses on fairly regular basis according to his videos.

When he hunts NoDak it is on water, sometimes freelance, sometimes with a so called guide. I don't believe he has ever "roost busted" here.

Take him or leave him, but he has left his mark in the waterfowling world and now he's tagging up with Clinton Decoy which means more crap for us to waste our money on. :-?


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Backwater,

You gotta grow a thicker skin. They'll be mad at you.

Those who see beyond their hat brim understood your point and agreed, those who didn't won't be persuaded anyhow...

But don't let these guys kid you, there is a much longer and stronger tradition of water hunting in ND than there is field hunting. Consider we had nothing for fields in ND until the last 100 years and then squat until the last 50 years, and even then everyone hunted on water, not in the fields (e.g., Hough, Field & Stream, 1901). Water hunting still has a lot more adherents in ND than does field hunting. Consider the big picture - field feeding is a recent thing for ducks (e.g., 60-100 years of the last 20,000 years since the glaciers last receded - ducks probably didn't migrate much during the last ice age) and field hunting is an even more recent thing.

Here's a challenge to anyone with a hunting library (not a video library) - what's the earliest report you can find about specifically hunting ducks and geese in grain fields on the prairies? Anyone find a published report earlier than 1950's??? Please post the citation (pulling dates from your butt is essentially just that) so we can all read it. What's the first reference you johnny-come-latelys can find for your view of the way things should be done?

M.


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## apeterson (Aug 3, 2005)

:lol:


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

MRN,
You are on! Give me until I get to my books back home and I will post up tonite - assuming that I get home from work at a reasonable time. Would you care to put up a case of beer for each 10 years before 1950 that I can document field hunting for waterfowl?
Jim


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

I'm in too. MRN, I hate to break it to you but you are in trouble on this one.

Citations? What are we professional scientists? 

I feel like I am in academia here getting grilled by a professor.

Don't you think water hunting is a little stodgy. The next thing I will hear is that we aren't waterfowlers unless we shoot side by sides.

I suppose one could call it nostalgia, however.


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

This should be interesting.


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## Acemallard (Sep 30, 2003)

Take this for what it is. My dad was born in 1926. His uncle who was 25 at the time and was a avid waterfowler hunted ducks in the field in ND. My dad started hunting at 14(1940) also hunted ducks in the field. So don't tell me that people did not hunt waterfowl in the fields before 1950.

HARDCORE WATERFOWLER


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

Acemallard said:


> Take this for what it is. My dad was born in 1926. His uncle who was 25 at the time and was a avid waterfowler hunted ducks in the field in ND. My dad started hunting at 14(1940) also hunted ducks in the field. So don't tell me that people did not hunt waterfowl in the fields before 1950.
> 
> HARDCORE WATERFOWLER


I am supprised there were even people in ND in 1926. :lol:

By the way when did ND even become a state?


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

backwater said:


> By the way when did ND even become a state?


1925!! backwater seems to be an appropiate handle here. 

My dad grew up swatting mallards in cornfields in the 40's and 50's, for what it's worth. I might add on some of the same ground I hunt til this day.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

What's the upside of the bet? How do I win beer? Heck I spotted you 50 years...

Also, see the stuff about pulling numbers out of your butt. Find a published report. Blah blah - my dad's friend's uncle knew a guy who said..... Get a book. Prove it.

And not these pass shooting things - sitting on hay stacks - ya, there were hillbillies back then too (e.g., see duebbert's book). We want real field set-ups.

M.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

You win beer by becoming a committee member of our Delta Waterfowl Agassiz 4-Curls chapter. Our first meeting is on Jan 4th at a location to be determined. BTY, do you consider digging pits and hiding in shocked corn while using decoys as bona fide field hunting methods or do you call that hillbilly huntin'?


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Decoys in corn should meet everyone's definition of field hunting?? - how early? Written up where? How much corn was there on the prairie 50 years ago?

M.


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

gandergrinder said:


> Don't you think water hunting is a little stodgy.


Gimme a break.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

GG,

No, you're an uncultured heathen until you shoot a SxS. 
An OU works, but its got to be a Royal (e.g., Holland & Holland).
But you're still a waterfowler.

So, you can't find a single published report of field set-ups for waterfowl prior to 1950's? I didn't think the bar was that high....

M.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

> And not these pass shooting things - sitting on hay stacks - ya, there were hillbillies back then too (e.g., see duebbert's book). We want real field set-ups.


Rule changes in the middle of the game. :shake: I was going to go with Duebbert. I can't afford the originals because they are all in someones collection and as soon as they die other people who have waited buy them. Oh well. You think one day they would take mercy on me and let me buy one at a reduced price. I could enjoy it longer.

I have shot Purdy's, Holland and Hollands, Westley Richards, Greeners, AYA's and a bunch of others, all of them SxS's. They didn't belong to me unfortunately. Beautiful guns both in form and function. If there is such a thing as refinement in a shotgun these certainly had it.

While the owners had/have good taste in shotguns they were and are no more cultured than most of the guys I hunt with. They have bigger bank accounts and more expensive toys but they still tell dirty jokes, cuss, drink to much and tell interesting stories. The only difference is there drinks are called brandy manhattan and the women in their stories are a bit older now than the ones my friends and I talk about.

I wish to emulate them in every way.

Do I care if people water hunt? Absolutly not, but I have a good time rattling you old curmudgeons.


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## 4CurlRedleg (Aug 31, 2003)

> Do I care if people water hunt? Absolutly not, but I have a good time rattling you old curmudgeons.


Classic, the second time today someone has floated curmudgeon. Could it be a new description of the modern liberal!! :lol: :lol:


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

gg,
Suppose we should invite MRN, curmudgeon extraordinaire, out for a hunt and put the Elsie curse on him?


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

jhegg said:


> MRN,
> You are on! Give me until I get to my books back home and I will post up tonite - assuming that I get home from work at a reasonable time. Would you care to put up a case of beer for each 10 years before 1950 that I can document field hunting for waterfowl?
> Jim


Tick tock, tick tock. We are waiting.

I thought this was going to be easy?


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

Sorry James,
I'm still at work. Just keep your pants on!


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

It would be fun. Elsie certainly got the best of me.

Knowing both MRN and jhegg I actually think they would enjoy spending a day in the blind together. They are not as far apart on their views as they think they are. In fact I'm pretty sure they like waterfowling for the very same reasons, they just go about it a little differently. Although with MRN I'm never really sure what "persona" he is bringing that day. Being around someone who knows that much about the mind and how it works can be a little unnerving.

As for me and water hunting. I have been ripping you water hunters for some time. While I have hunted in a pair of waders on more than a few hunts I have actually never hunted out of a boat.

Like Tony Dean and spring snow goose hunting. I think I should give it a try. Then, having tried it, again proclaim it inherently "bad". I always like to give things a fair try.

Is there anyone willing to take me?


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

GG,

I will trade you a lates season Mississippi River duck hunt (late November) for a April spring snow goose hunt.


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

jhegg said:


> Sorry James,
> I'm still at work. Just keep your pants on!


How did you know I had my pants off?


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

GG

If I knew anyone who hunted water and had a boat I'd see about getting you baptised... until then, we'll just have to dream....

(You got to shoot all those guns?? Wow!)

But I really do want to know when people started using field sets.

M.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

So you want some citation. Well here it is.

A Goose Hunt in North Dakota - George F. Goodwin Forest and Stream 1891

"About three miles out we found a stubble field thickly covered with geese and brant feeding, and driving them away without shooting, we proceeded to dig our pits and put out our decoys and dead geese."

"Getting back into the pits about two o'clock, we awaited the afternoon flight from the lake. It was nearly three o'clock before the first triangle appeared on the distant horizon; soon the honk, honk, squawk, squawk of the coming flocks was heard, and the order is given "Down there," and we prepare for action. Soon they are over us and taking the decoys beautifully; all ready - one, two, three; bang, bang, bang; whizz, swish, thump; five fine birds as the result of the first volley. From this time on until dark they kept coming at irregular intervals, the short waits adding zest to the sport"

If that doesn't count as field hunting I don't know what does.

I would have posted earlier but I figured MRN posting about Duebbert was an act of surrender. This is by the way from Wildfowling in Dakota 1873-1903 by Harold F. Duebbert. A wonderful book I might add that all hunters of the Dakotas should own.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

Backwater,
I think we could probably work something out. I always like to meet people with similar levels of insanity and water hunting the Mis in Nov. certainly qualifies.

MRN wrote,


> (You got to shoot all those guns?? Wow!)


Grandpa and his friends are good like that. They like to go shoot driven birds and wear goofy outfits. Hang out in the pubs.

Someday............................hopefully. Until then I am stuck looking down tired remingtons and shooting domestic birds. However, I like to think I do it with panache. :roll: :eyeroll:


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## mallard (Mar 27, 2002)

Does anyone have the book "The wheatfields of Alberta"?I read it years ago and it did mention hunting in fields.I will also see what I can dig up.


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

GG, 
You mean insanity like this? It was the 6th of December and the temp had not been above 15 deg in over a week.


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## malspeck (Nov 21, 2005)

Interesting topic! I read the same subject about the roost in the duck hunting forum. Now is it lack of water or waterholes in ND that people get bent over open water hunting or do the birds fly to certain waterholes for the night. I have a good idea of what you guys are talking about. I grew up in La and we'd flood rice fields or soybean fields but we'd also hunt open water i.e. Toledo Bend Reservior (pretty big place). I prefer flooded fields or marsh hunting and we'd hunt dry fields for geese where you'd find very little ducks. But then La has plenty of water i.e. marshes, rice fields. We are moving to Minot, ND in Jan. and I'd like to get together with someone to show me around and give me a visual of the roost or whatever. I know I stated this in the duck forum but why don't they have designated rest areas for the birds and other areas to hunt. Like I said I don't know anything about ND and I want to understand this.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

backwater,
It sure looks like you're made of the right stuff. If you want to compromise a little, come out here and I will get you into some pass shooting. That way we don't piss off either the field hunters or the water shooters. I'm still not home yet, so you have to wait on the field hunting stories.


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## GooseBuster3 (Mar 1, 2002)

backwater said:


> GG,
> 
> I will trade you a lates season Mississippi River duck hunt (late November) for a April spring snow goose hunt.


WOW, thats a big trade, I would make him work :wink:

How about try a first push migrator hunt with trying to open water 1-2 days before the birds even get here. 8)


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## Acemallard (Sep 30, 2003)

MRN give me your # and I will let you talk to my dad. My dad has been setting decoys in fields for ducks and geese since 1940. Or is my dad lying to me. :******:

HARDCORE WATERFOWLER

P.S. And my dad and his uncle are not hillbilles.


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## tb (Jul 26, 2002)

GooseBuster3 said:


> backwater said:
> 
> 
> > GG,
> > How about try a first push migrator hunt with trying to open water 1-2 days before the birds even get here. 8)


I'm confused. He says water hunting is a little stodgy. Or is his kind of water hunting ok, but someone else's isn't.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

GG,

What page in Duebbert? The only passage I remember from Duebbert was the guys hunting snows in barley up by Devil's Lake. They hid in straw piles and had their horse driver go flush the birds towards them. Those were the "hillbillies".

What about field hunting for ducks?

No offense Ace - I'm looking for verifiable stuff. I can find lots of folks who will tell me they hunted dinosaurs and mastadons and unicorns. Any dated pictures of a field set-up from the 40's? Memories for dates are such unreliable things.

M.


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Backwater

That almost looks fun enough to freeze snot for. Is that a Prodrive on the back?

M.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

MRN,

The book is "Old Waterfowling Tales 1877-1910' Volume III compiled and edited by Worth Mathewson.

1st reference: "1897 A Fall Outing in Dakota" by George T. Farmer pg. 61 
"At daybreak we were five miles from Parker's, and about two miles from the west end of Stump Lake, safely stowed away in a couple of pits about twenty feet apart, which Pat had dug with marvelous rapidity and disappeared with his team." 
This story relates the activities of some gentlemen hunting from pits dug in stubble and using their harvested birds as decoys.

2nd reference: "1887 Goose Shooting on Dakota Stubbles" by A.B. Guptill pg. 66
"About half an hour later we were safely ensconced in a couple of already-prepared pits, while our decoys wee disposed in such a way as to attract attention and, as we fondly believed, to draw birds." 
This story relates the activities of some gentlemen hunting from pits dug in stubble and using decoys to attract the geese.

There are several other stories in this book on field hunting. MRN, I hope you will join us at our first Delta meeting on Jan. 4th. And yes, I will buy you a beer!
Jim


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

jhegg said:


> backwater,
> It sure looks like you're made of the right stuff. If you want to compromise a little, come out here and I will get you into some pass shooting. That way we don't piss off either the field hunters or the water shooters. I'm still not home yet, so you have to wait on the field hunting stories.


Sorry, I don't pass shoot.


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## backwater (Jan 29, 2003)

MRN said:


> Backwater
> 
> That almost looks fun enough to freeze snot for. Is that a Prodrive on the back?
> 
> M.


Yep, its a pro-drive. Truth be told it was not the cold, we walked across a few 100yds of ice to put the deeks out and then just sat tight in some trees, the wind was calm and that helped. It was a slow day, but what can you expect when the main channel is freezing and most water with no current has been frozen for almost a week. The weeks prior to this day were some of the best hunting I had ever witnessed.


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## gandergrinder (Mar 10, 2002)

tb,
Do I care if people water hunt? Absolutly not, but I have a good time rattling you old curmudgeons. :wink:


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## MRN (Apr 1, 2002)

Jhegg,

Good work.
Who's the publisher and year ? - so I can look this up and get the whole story to better understand the set-up.

I'm not too sure if using only dead birds counts as a decoy set - they had to start with zero - which means they were pass shooting. You wouldn't consider someone doing that now field hunting would you? Did the 1897 guys have actual pre-made decoys of some type?

Also, any mention of field set-ups to hunt ducks? Ducks are the more interesting case. Geese are grazers so have been eating grass in "fields" for perhaps hundreds or thousands of years - before agriculture and golf courses. Ducks, however, are more water foragers than grazers and are newer to the field feeding. Plus, the same guys who dug pits for geese probably still "busted" the ducks and hunted them on water by waiting for them to come back. I don't know of any of the old books where they talk about doing that to geese.

I might do the Delta thing - but I really don't like to wear camo...

M.


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

MRN,

In the 1887 story they were using metal cut-outs of geese as decoys. I don't think they mentioned manufactured decoys in the 1897 story. There are also several other stories about field hunting in this book. You are welcome to borrow it if you want.

I have hunted in fields without decoys before. Is it "field hunting" or "pass shooting"? I don't know, take your pick.

If you will do the "Delta thing", I will give you a non-camo Delta cap. Plus the free beer - how's that for a deal!


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## jhegg (May 29, 2004)

MRN,

The publisher of "Old Waterfowling Tales" is:

Sand Lake Press
P.O. Box 130
Amity, OR 97101
503-843-2767

Another book you may be interested in is "American Duck Shooting" (1901) by George Bird Grinnell republished in 1991 by:

Stackpole Books
Cameron and Kelker Streets
P.O. Box 1831


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## DeltaBoy (Mar 4, 2004)

I was just going to post up "Old Wildfowling Tales" and noticed you did - great book! :wink:

Some other books you might be interested in too:

Don't Shoot the Decoys - Doug Larson

The Duck Gods Must Be Crazy - Doug Larson

Great read IMO.


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## WingedShooter7 (Oct 28, 2005)

I want to get Take Em 7 looks like a good movie but what u just said kinda has me not wanting to buy it. Have you ever seen Fallin Skie 2? great movie......


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## Gary Bottger (Nov 24, 2004)

Can I add another ingredient to the pot? How do you guys feel about these video shoots that have 40 to whatever geese or ducks in the decoys and one person shoots one drake or goose? I know they are trying to extend the time they are in the field so they have more video but talk about educating flocks. :eyeroll:


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