# Better Gas Mileage....Why??



## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

I am not an engineer, but it seems to me something is wrong here. We have lighter cars that are more aerodynamic with these state of the art engines and computers running those engines. Why are we not geting better mileage out of our vehicles???

I remember years ago I heard that whenever an engineer at a car company developed a cabureator or fuel injection system that they would either fire him/her or somehow they would loose the patent on their design.

I also heard back in the day that large oil companies would buy patents on anything that would enhance fuel economy and not allow them to be produced.

With as much engineering and technology we have constructed, I just find it hard to believe that we can't create a truck that gets 30 miles to the gallon and a car get 60 without hybridizing.

I would love to hear from some engineers out there to help me understand some of the things......I guess I don't understand.

Sevendogs: Let me pre-empt you with a Shhh....I don't want to hear your Bush bashing, sending gas over to Iraq, oil conspiracy theory.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

It's simple ............ EPA. I have a 1999 24 valve Dodge Cummins that was said to be great on mileage when they first appeared back in 1998. It was the first year, but then the EPA stepped in and demanded or rather should I say ordered cleaner emissions on the new diesels. Since the new 24 valve diesels were computer controlled, they had the manufacture by the gonads. Chrysler was forced to come up with new software that retarded the timing to lower diesel emissions, all at the cost of mpg. New diesel vehicles starting in 2000 had the new programs from the factory. Older 24 valve 98.5 and 99 model years were changed as customers brought their vehicles back for maintenance. This was called reflashing the computer. Pre 24 valve diesels which were 12 valve and mechanical controlled systems were not affected. As a matter of fact the older Dodge diesels get somewhere around 20% better fuel mileage. I suspect the same problem exists for gasoline engines. Making them lighter and smaller but with emission controls so tight the mileage suffers.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

If more people would study and learn chemistry in the world we wouldn't have to put up with lies and propaganda. Yes the vehicles can do better just look at the European models getting 70mpg going 150mph. We are stuck with being controlled by the energy people until we break the chains somehow. Alot of the problem is the WWII era folks believe everything the government tells them and they are the biggest voting block, but that is rapidly changing so the governments next plan is to employ or subsidise as many as possible to control them that way. Our government is controlled by big business not by our votes.


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

I have heard this same old rehtoric everytime gas gets high. The oil companies buy up these guys carburators that get 90 mpg etc etc. Its the emission problems "damn epa". This is a new one cars getting 70mpg at 150 mph??????? Anyone have actual facts on any of these things??? We are building safer more fuel efficent cars than ever. Yes computers and fuel injection helps tremendousley. I have driven 4 wheel drive pickups for the last 30 years, and every new model I get is a vast improvement. I remeber in the 70's buying one every two years, by 100,000 miles they where shot. I have an 89 with over 500k, a 01 with 160k they are much better now. Our problem is our love with these vehicles, how many on this site own pickups and suv's. But these vehicles are never going to get 60 mpg.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

I agree with g/o cars are much better now. But hey I heard a rumor that gas is .55 cents a gallon in Iraq any one else hear this?


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Bore:

My cousin was over there 6 months ago and said gas was only $.04/gallon.

$.55 seems more reasonable.

Since he doesn't speak arabic, I wonder if he was reading it correctly.

The lowest gas price I can remember is $.79/gallon when I first started driving.


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## adokken (Jan 28, 2003)

You kids should of been around when I bought my first car a Model A for $50.00 and five gallons of gas was about a doller or less. 22 short shells for my rifle were as low as 14 cents a box.


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## Bore.224 (Mar 23, 2005)

Heck if its .04 cents a gallon, with shipping and handling it would still be less than 2.00 a gallon Ill bet. One of our troops should go into business for himself. :lol:


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## north14 (Oct 1, 2004)

I bought my first car in 1972, I can remember filling it up in Minot during the gas war for 19.9 cents per gallon. It was a 1967 Buick La Sabre and held 22 gallons of gas. I always got change back from a five dollar bill. Yesterday it cost me $83.00 to fill up my pickup.


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

There are so many factors that contribute to "gas mileage" this is just two.

1. The main thing that everyone forgets is our fuel source hasnt changed. Gasoline will still only produce the same amount of energy when combusted with atmosphere as it did 20-30 years ago (of course some small changes have taken place, but nothing significant). Like most have said fuel economy has increased as the years are progressing, due to new concepts and engineering feats (lighter vehicles, valving, etc.). But there is a limit to the amount of "tweaking" that can be done to increase fuel economy. Now if your talking HP or Torque, us engineers can do lots!!

2. Emmission control also hinders the ability to increase fuel economy. With restrictions in emmissions comes inability to quickly exhaust combusted material.

I realize this stems from the recent increase in gas prices, but until the demand dies off (which it probably won't because we love our Pick-ups and SUV's), higher gas prices will be here to stay.


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Adokken I asked Bill Miller what kind of gas milage he got with his old Model A's and T's, he said those words didn't exist then.. 

I was working the oilfield in the 70's when we had the so called gas shortage.. what a bunch of baloney that was. We were paid to keep our mouths shut, but hey free gas back then was worth it to me. Its all a market scheme to extend the time frame available to market gas. If they charge more people will buy less and they can sell it to us for a longer period of time before it runs out. Probaly to simple for most folks.


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

Because the energy companys dont WANT you to be able to drive more than 30 MPG, THATS why.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> But these vehicles are never going to get 60 mpg.


What good are facts if you don't listen. I bought the first Dodge Cummins produced in 1989. Got 22-23 miles per gallon and that is with a mechanical controlled fuel injection system. First 1998.5 24 valve Cummins on the road were getting 24-26 mpg with computer controlled fuel injection. Within a year when the EPA changed the standards they all dropped to 18-19. Don't let facts Stand in your way...................


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## always_outdoors (Dec 17, 2002)

Mr. Trooper:

what is up with your signature?? It doesn't make sense?


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## buckseye (Dec 8, 2003)

Like all government controlled business's I'm sure you will find an interesting path to the money. Corruption and greed is the fuel that drives regulators such as the EPA.... to me they are worse than peta. If people used the sense God gave them we wouldn't need to inhibit progress like we have for the last 100 years.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

> until the demand dies off (which it probably won't because we love our Pick-ups and SUV's), higher gas prices will be here to stay.


I agree with this to a point and eventually the prices will settle down, probable 20 or 30 cents lower than now and as usual the public will think prices have dropped and be dumbly happy. On the other had, until someone can come up with a vehicle with enough torque to pull my pontoon boat up a steep slippery ramp or pull a trailer across a field with hay or firewood, then I have no choice but have a large truck. Not everyone is driving big trucks or suv's because they think they are cool or because they love them. Can you imagine four hunters driving across the state to g/o's camp, carrying all their hunting gear, clothes and guns in a Honda civic.


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## rap (Mar 26, 2002)

i think ethanol and biodeisel are very encouraging sources of energy. helps our farmers and our dependence on foreign oil. there are numerous biodeisel and ethanol plants going up across the nation, many in nd. i work at the ndsu research center in minot and we have a tractor that has been running on 100% canola the whole season... e-85 is another great product and very cheap, at the moment... we need to keep pursuing these non-petroleum products as well as others such as hydrogen and electric cars..


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## muskat (Mar 5, 2002)

I agree with you Gohon, in both your statements. 
We will see a 10-15% decrease in gas prices by this fall, but the trend will continue upward in the future.

I also own a Pick-up, and utilize it for similar functions that you do. It is my realization now that if I want to play, I will have to pay. However, over the past 10 years, the SUV craze has really risen, with "soccer moms" turning to larger SUV's instead of the old trust minivan in many cases.


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## mudstud (Nov 30, 2004)

north14,

It's probably been 1972 since there's been a gas "war" in Minot!!


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## g/o (Jul 13, 2004)

Gohon, I sorry you feel I did not understand your problem. But is it the EPA's problem that the cummins didn't pass? They took the easy way out detuned it. Remember in the 70's when they detuned the cars to pass epa standards? They dropped the compression ratio and so went the milage. Is it the mfg.'s fault or EPA's? Now I like you can not get get by with a rice burner. I need a pickup so I know what your saying there. By the way sevaeral Honda Accords been here but no civics yet.


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## Gohon (Feb 14, 2005)

My wife has a Honda Accord. Last three cars she has bought new were Accords so as you see she likes Honda's. Its a good car, gets decent mileage and has been virtually maintenance free. But, I hate driving that thing. I feel like I'm sitting on a porta-potti with a blanket over my head every time I get in it. :lol:


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## mr.trooper (Aug 3, 2004)

live2hunt said:


> Mr. Trooper:
> 
> what is up with your signature?? It doesn't make sense?


Its an OLDE internet gag. It was a little video clip from an old video game. these guys were on the bridge of some space ship, and the video screen pops up and the bad guys says: "Good evening gentlemen. You are on the way to destruction. All your base are belong to us. HA-HA-HA!". What follows is a slideshow of a bunch of rediculous stuff, all somehow containing the words "ALL your base".


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## njsimonson (Sep 24, 2002)

Mr.Trooper -

How DARE you misquote this piece of internet legend!! :wink:

For interested parties, view this LINK at newgrounds.com to see the 2001 phenomenon that swept the country, or at least the internet dorks of the country.

*SOMEONE SET UP US THE BOMB!!!!

You have no chance to survive...make your time.*


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